# Knowledge Zenith (KZ) impressions thread



## bhazard (Jul 4, 2022)

I started this thread back in 2014. I was very new in my quest for IEMs out of China (Aliexpress, Taobao). I was finding what appeared to be great tech and deals mostly unknown outside of China.

KZ (A1 I think?) was one of the first sets I received at a very low price and I thought, "Wow! This sounds great for $12". They went from unknown to widely known in a few short years, and Chinese audio went from "uncertain" to well respected.

KZ became far bigger than any of us ever imagined back in 2014, and here we are enjoying the products almost a decade later.


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## peter123

Nice initiative, since I got the a1's today I'll join the party


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## bhazard

peter123 said:


> Nice initiative, since I got the a1's today I'll join the party


 
 Thoughts on it? IMO it's a bass monster that is clearer than a Beats IEM and the $8 Monoprice, and that's all you can really expect it to do, which is still excellent for ~$10.


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## peter123

So far I've just heard it for about 30 minutes. Short first impression is very clear and very much bass. I hope the bass settles a bit with some more use.


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## fnkcow

Hell yeah for a KZ appreciation thread!


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## peter123

Bhazard: if it's not to much trouble could you please add a small comment to the models that you have/heard in the first post. This way it would be easier for others to see what signatures/quality they each have. That will make it easier to purchase the ones one most likely will prefer. I hope that others (including myself) that try the KZ line can contribute with their impressions as well


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## bhazard

peter123 said:


> Bhazard: if it's not to much trouble could you please add a small comment to the models that you have/heard in the first post. This way it would be easier for others to see what signatures/quality they each have. That will make it easier to purchase the ones one most likely will prefer. I hope that others (including myself) that try the KZ line can contribute with their impressions as well


 
 Of course. I'll add a few now.


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## peter123

bhazard said:


> Of course. I'll add a few now.




You're the man

Thank you!


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## peter123

Quoting myself from the Asian/Chinese thread regarding the KZ A1:
  
 I got the KZ A1 and my impressions with them are a bit diversed: they have a terrific clarity for the price and the sub bass is really deep. With music that has a lot of fast bass I do find the bass to be a bit overwhelming. Some exaples: listening to more accoustic music whit good bass like Ben Howard, Cowboy Junkies or the Abbey Road Sessions with Kylie Minouge they are really really good, not only for their price. Listening to Robyn or Depeche Mode on the other hand it feels like I get bass a bit all over the place leading to litening fatigue pretty fast. To sum it up I think the bass is a bit slow and if there's a lot of midbass in the music it bleeds togheter with the subbass.


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## Bananiq

Subscribed.
 What is the KZ's Flagship model?


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## Bananiq

KZ-CKW1000 looks good also KZ-IE8
 are these good? looks like knock-off the Sennheiser IE80 and Audio Technica CKW1000


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## bhazard

bananiq said:


> KZ-CKW1000 looks good also KZ-IE8
> are these good? looks like knock-off the Sennheiser IE80 and Audio Technica CKW1000


 
 The shape is similar, but they use their own style of cords, housings, and drivers. They don't use any logos or anything from the models they are inspired from, and they also have a lot of their own designs.
  
 Flagship wise, the KZ-2013 and KZ-2014 seem to be the most popular. They are pretty good for ~$30, but they won't blow away $100+ earphones.
  
 I like the $12 Micro Ring better than both of them.


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## Bananiq

So you also don't like KZ A1 anymore? If they use different drivers too, I wonder how they match the sound signature of the originals.


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## bhazard

bananiq said:


> So you also don't like KZ A1 anymore? If they use different drivers too, I wonder how they match the sound signature of the originals.


 
 The KZ-A1 is more of a one trick pony. It has really nice, deep, punchy bass, but is a little recessed in the mids and could use a little more clarity. Still excellent for $10, and blows away the Monoprice easily.


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## Bananiq

Thanks, so what Asian IEM would you consider to beat 100+ dollar IEMs?
 Do they have dual BA IEMs or something similar to that fashion?


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## Bananiq

My preferred signature would be analytical, detailed with balanced bass. So that would be Ostry, MOE or Tiinlab?


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## bhazard

bananiq said:


> My preferred signature would be analytical, detailed with balanced bass. So that would be Ostry, MOE or Tiinlab?


 
 Havi B3 professional tuned version. One of the most accurate balanced earphones I've heard, and it's only $40-50.


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## mochill




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## svyr

bhazard said:


> Havi B3 professional tuned version. One of the most accurate balanced earphones I've heard, and it's only $40-50.


 all the links in op aren't really working for me 
any current ones, especially with a FR chart?


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## djvkool

Here's hoping that they will release a hybrid model soon


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## peter123

+1 on the hybrid


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## svyr

the more - the merrier


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## svyr

ps links in post 1 do load. just had a chrome extension relating to security enabled. fixed. 

would be nice to have a simple table of product/ description/price/tech/ driver # etc (in ear on ear, etc)


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## nihontoman

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.w4023-218015958.23.JAvmov&id=36347833620
  
 any info on these? they seem quite unnatural, being a dual driver open style earbud with the "tweeter" way back outside of the ear... should sound pretty wide (at least wider by 5-6mm  )


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## jant71

nihontoman said:


> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.w4023-218015958.23.JAvmov&id=36347833620
> 
> any info on these? they seem quite unnatural, being a dual driver open style earbud with the "tweeter" way back outside of the ear... should sound pretty wide (at least wider by 5-6mm  )


 

 I asked about them before. Bhazard had them but wasn't very impressed. Looking even further they really didn't seem to be one of the better choices so I skipped them. Buds are so picky with fit so the results vary so you have to picky with them Even so they usually take some tweaking to get the best out of them with the right foams and attachments. I ended up going with the Vsonic UU2 and they still needed Senn PMX70 caps and foam over them to work better for me and I might not be done.
  
 On  another note, I will be a KZ owner as my first purchase is the R3 linear. So, I'll hear my first Knowledge Zenith and be able to pass on how the R3 sounds.


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## nihontoman

jant71 said:


> I asked about them before. Bhazard had them but wasn't very impressed. Looking even further they really didn't seem to be one of the better choices so I skipped them. Buds are so picky with fit so the results vary so you have to picky with them Even so they usually take some tweaking to get the best out of them with the right foams and attachments. I ended up going with the Vsonic UU2 and they still needed Senn PMX70 caps and foam over them to work better for me and I might not be done.
> 
> On  another note, I will be a KZ owner as my first purchase is the R3 linear. So, I'll hear my first Knowledge Zenith and be able to pass on how the R3 sounds.


 
  
  
 thanks for the reply. yeah, I saw his impressions about the KZ OMX2 but he also said that earbuds aren't his thing  I'm still kinda intrigued. I saw them for 10$ with free shipping here:

 http://easy-taobao.com/taobao/view/id/36347833620
  
 Any info on the seller? if it is legit, I might get it and give my impressions when they arrive...


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## jant71

You mean the seller Ren88 or the agent easy-tao? Either way I can't really help  Ren88 is the seller of my R3 and seems legit enough. I'm sure bhazard or someone can chime in from their experience.


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## nihontoman

jant71 said:


> You mean the seller Ren88 or the agent easy-tao? Either way I can't really help  Ren88 is the seller of my R3 and seems legit enough. I'm sure bhazard or someone can chime in from their experience.


 

 I mean both


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## mochill

Penonaudio will have the kz models soon


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## nihontoman

mochill said:


> Penonaudio will have the kz models soon


 

 How soon and how cheap is the main question here LOL


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## bhazard

mochill said:


> Penonaudio will have the kz models soon




I would much rather give Penon business than go through taobao agents. That's great news.


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## mochill

No problem friends


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## mochill

I think the b3proi is one hellaova find....they are as capable as my perfect iem(fx850)


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## bhazard

Hmm, the two links to the two Taobao stores still work for me.


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## KTZeen

Has anyone tried the new KZ-ED1 IEM? According to their taobao website, it has sold over 1600 in 30 days and receiving good reviews.
 Will want to know how these $8-$10 sound. Has 2 version gold and silver?


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## jant71

Just got my BLOX BE5 and KZ R3 a little while ago...
  


 Get some impressions up a little later but they are quite handsome. Cable is quality. Wood finish is very nice. Came in a little baggie and 4 pairs of tips. I ordered the linear professional so they are the more balanced tuning.


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## bhazard

Awesome! I have the R3 and ED1 on order.
  
 The R3 looks great!


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## BenF

Is KZ R3 trying to look like FX850?
 Would be funny if it sounded similar too.


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## jant71

I'd say my R3 being the linear version aren't that warm though the stock tips are warm/thick sounding and should be changed. Rich sounding from the wood(which includes the front sound tube) but good balance and they sound much like the Moxpad/soundsoul U10. Cable works on the U10 as well. I tested with one side R3 and the other with a U10 driver plugged in and they are very close sounding. I think with some run in the R3 may get better and move ahead. I'd say that is the level they are on right now. Not bad. We'll see how they end up. Build is very nice though. All wood and metal and a nice sturdy braided cable that does not want to coil or tangle and is pretty supple. Fun and nice sounding so far. Need to burn in and do some tip rolling.


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## jant71

So, after some burn in and some time with the R3 they are improving and growing on me. Still have an excellent cable similar to the older Ety cable but a bit thinner and more pliable. Also similar to the Vsang/Brainwavz cable but a bit thicker and again more pliable. A nice thing is the connection is strong and you swivel the R/L markings to face which way you want. The cable sheath is a bit microphonic and they really could use a clip and a cord slider. Good thing is you can add a slider if you want with a piece of heat shrink tubing. It would slide easily over the straight plug and Y which are aluminum cylinders. I may just use an old tip turn it inside out and cut a slider out of the inner bore. 
  
 I am using medium Philips 3580 tips on them with a fairly loose fit. The R3 are partially open in the rear like the older FX500/700 so they leak some out the back and are a very highly isolating phone. They are not bad when listening to music as external sounds are drowned out well. You can get better isolation with more of a deeper fit/more seal than I use but they get thicker and bassier. Used them today on a very windy day and they performed surprisingly well. No wind whistle nor could I hear the wind.
  
 Not much burn in yet. Still under 25 hours but they are cleaning up and losing the initial thickness they had. They are well balanced with a loose fit but the bass takes charge with the best seal. Nice texture coming through, treble is very nice, quite refined. Details are quite good at this point. Stage is quite big, maybe a little bigger than the AX60 I had on loan till yesterday. The R3 was not too shabby vs. the AX60 actually even so early on. Of course the R3 are much better looking than the pricier Astrotec. The R3 cable is both detachable and better than the Astrotec's cable. Extension is just as good as well as the overall sound being similar to the dynamic part of the AX60 just less refined and resolving. Shame I had to send them to the next part of their tour before more hours could be put on the R3. Probably not going to get that good but just as enjoyable and more impressive as far as value.
  
 Another thing worth mentioning is no driver flex as one might suspect since the rear vents prevent it.
  
 The R3 could have some nice packaging and accessory pack and sell for $100. A real deal at $15.75


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## bhazard

Awesome. Can't wait to get the R3 and ED1 in. The ED1 already sold 2000 units.


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## salawat

which version of the kz-r3 is better?

 there's the q sense LF version and the Linear Professional Edition on taobao
  
 Q sense low-frequency version : Specialty undoubtedly its bass performance full of character, full of elasticity.
 Linear Pro : highlights the vocal smoothness in a balanced, detailed sound at the end of the overall performance of rich, clear and penetrating voice.


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## bhazard

salawat said:


> which version of the kz-r3 is better?
> 
> there's the q sense LF version and the Linear Professional Edition on taobao
> 
> ...


 
 Q Sense = Beats like bassy version
  
 Linear = better sounding overall version


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## salawat

bhazard said:


> Q Sense = Beats like bassy version
> 
> Linear = better sounding overall version


 
 is the linear version bassy in any way?


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## jant71

salawat said:


> which version of the kz-r3 is better?
> 
> there's the q sense LF version and the Linear Professional Edition on taobao
> 
> ...


 
 A pretty accurate description of the Linear Pro. Detail is coming in nicely as they burn in. Detailed so far just the micro detail is a bit muted or harder to hear but it is there. Not sure how much more it will come out. As much as I could have expected at this point so I am more then happy. They are pretty rich sounding which can smooth over micro detail yet some things here and there are presented near as well as high resolving phones like the Mikros or an Ety can. Vocals are smooth and are highlighted as the mids are almost as much the focus as the bass. The wood does bring a nice richness, texture, and unique tone to the R3's sound.  
  


salawat said:


> is the linear version bassy in any way?


 
 Yes. not JVC woody bassy. Mine are taming as they burn in. Not sure when it will stop. I do think they need a normal comfy fit with the right tips. If you are trying to get a deep as you can higher seal fit they will get more bassy. I have found that as they tone down I have gone to a slightly deeper fit that doesn't have to be as shallow as earlier on. The Moxpad X3/Soundsoul U10 are known by a few people and the Linear Pro has around the same amount.


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## bhazard

dremag said:


> Has anyone heard the Vmoda clones, LP2?


 
 The LP2 is just ok. Very warm leaning.
  
 The LP 2014 version is very nice and balanced though, but doesn't fold.


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## Charliemotta

Mine are on the way..


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## bhazard

I like the ED1 and R3-Pro for what they are, unbeatable $8-12 earphones. The cable on the R3 is killer, and worth the price alone easy.
  
 They just can't compare to the $60 Ostry and Havi Pro. I'm hoping KZ tries for a cheap top tier model in the future.


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## mochill

i think ill be getting the ed3


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## bhazard

mochill said:


> i think ill be getting the ed3


 
 Literally a day after I said it, a higher end model appears for preorder. I like these guys.


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## jant71

For the R3, after a decent amount of burn in and finding the right tips, I still recommend taking the front screens out. They are adhesive backed and can be put back if you so choose. I actually found a bit of debris stuck to one side that gave the slightest imbalance between the channels. A slight bit lower in the blocked side but not enough that fit couldn't even it out. Besides that they seem a bit less constricted and the balance shifted a bit more towards the mids/treble than before and also a bit "cleaner" sounding. Might be worth a try.


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## mochill

ED3 frequency response is 7-40650


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## Hisoundfi

Subscribed


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## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> I like the ED1 and R3-Pro for what they are, unbeatable $8-12 earphones. The cable on the R3 is killer, and worth the price alone easy.
> 
> They just can't compare to the $60 Ostry and Havi Pro. I'm hoping KZ tries for a cheap top tier model in the future.


where do you see the r3 for 8-12 dollars? Aliexpress is the only place I see them and they are like 25-35 bucks.


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## BenF

hisoundfi said:


> where do you see the r3 for 8-12 dollars? Aliexpress is the only place I see them and they are like 25-35 bucks.


 

 These are TaoBao prices


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## Hisoundfi

Did anyone sample the kz ie8?

Impressions?


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## Grayson73

KZ ED3 half price, $25.50 shipped.  Has anyone besides Mochill heard them?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED3-acme-silver-grade-HIFI-fever-in-ear-headphones-The-transient-heavy-low-quality-earbuds/1869010918.html


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## Charliemotta

grayson73 said:


> KZ ED3 half price, $25.50 shipped.  Has anyone besides Mochill heard them?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED3-acme-silver-grade-HIFI-fever-in-ear-headphones-The-transient-heavy-low-quality-earbuds/1869010918.html


 
 No but i ordered some yesterday because of the price cut, and I like KZ anyway.


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## daveyostrow

charliemotta said:


> No but i ordered some yesterday because of the price cut, and I like KZ anyway.


 
 im tempted as well, few days left for the sale so hopefully we will have more info by then.


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## hachoopoo

How did you guys pay for the KZ-ED3's off Aliexpress? No paypal so a little.....


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## salawat

hachoopoo said:


> How did you guys pay for the KZ-ED3's off Aliexpress? No paypal so a little.....


 
 you can ask the seller if they accept paypal, some do, and you can pay through paypal.


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## hachoopoo

Appears the one for the ED3's doesn't accept paypal... hesitating to buy for that reason.


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## BenF

hachoopoo said:


> Appears the one for the ED3's doesn't accept paypal... hesitating to buy for that reason.


 

 Aliexpress has a buyer protection just like eBay, it's safe to pay with a credit card.


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## peter123

benf said:


> Aliexpress has a buyer protection just like eBay, it's safe to pay with a credit card.




My experience with the buyer protection on Aliexpress is rather bad and it's nowhere near the one you get with PayPal.


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## Hisoundfi

hachoopoo said:


> How did you guys pay for the KZ-ED3's off Aliexpress? No paypal so a little.....


Aliexpress is a huge website that has buyer protection. Of course you always have to be careful of scams and buyers should be careful of who they do business with, but as long as there isn't any wierd instructions to wire money or directly link up to a personal account you will be fine. If you don't get your stuff or receive a knock off, you will get your money back if you go through the a motions to report a jank item or item not received. I use my bank card and have never had a problem.


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## hachoopoo

I may hold off then til more people review this. I don't think its worth the risk yet with the aliexpress buyer protection. I have dealt with paypal on more than one occasion and know they are accommodating.
  
 Also i did contact the seller from the aliexpress link posted here, he said yes to paypal, then no, then told me to pay with credit card. So.... not sure what happened there.


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## Hisoundfi

Kz ed3 is decent, detailed and mid centric. I wish iit has a more prominent sub bass layer, but I think they are trying to appeal more to those seeking a sound that is more balanced and analytical . Anyone else get theirs? Impressions?


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## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> Kz ed3 is decent, detailed and mid centric. I wish iit has a more prominent sub bass layer, but I think they are trying to appeal more to those seeking a sound that is more balanced and analytical . Anyone else get theirs? Impressions?


 
 Still waiting...not happy with your impression though.


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## Hisoundfi

@charliemotta

They are excellent, they just don't have as much bass as I was expecting. It's nothing a bass boost can't help. 

You will like them, they have a wide Soundstage and are nicely detailed. I love the build on them. They have a sturdy cable, strain reliefs are good, metal housing, and an L shaped plug. 

PS These are initial impressions. I still gotta spend some time with them before I draw a final conclusion.


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## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> @charliemotta
> 
> They are excellent, they just don't have as much bass as I was expecting. It's nothing a bass boost can't help.
> 
> ...


 
 I totally understand, and am not worried. Right now I'm really enjoying my Tenores. They are incredible.


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## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> I totally understand, and am not worried. Right now I'm really enjoying my Tenores. They are incredible.


I stand corrected (and pleasantly so) 

I did some experimenting with different aftermarket tips on the ed3 and got the sub bass I was looking for! Sound is almost gr07 BE like. Awesome!


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## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> I stand corrected (and pleasantly so)
> 
> I did some experimenting with different aftermarket tips on the ed3 and got the sub bass I was looking for! Sound is almost gr07 BE like. Awesome!


 
 No argument here...have not heard the gr07Be yet but pretty much all positive. What tips did you get... ME's?


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## Hisoundfi

My fallback is the sony medium hybrids with the green innards. They never fail. If they fit they seal.
  
 Foam doesn't work for me.
  
 The meelec double flange work well too. I love meelec. They go big with their accessories with everything. I'm excited to see their next line of stuff come out. The m9 (although dated) was pretty monumental when it came out.


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## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> No argument here...have not heard the gr07Be yet but pretty much all positive. What tips did you get... ME's?


 
 They are gr07 BE "like" with a similar signature. The gr07 BE is pretty epic and still better. Then again, the gr07 BE is a good iem for $200 IMHO. I put it away, test and demo the budget models, then go back to either them or the dnk. They are both lovely, and a reminder of how good these two are. I'm waiting for something under $100 to sound better than either of those two. Maybe it will be the vsd3? I hope so!
  
 KZ ed3 is an absolute steal for 25 and well worth the 50 usd asking price. It's build quality and ergonomics are fantastic.


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## Pastapipo

Subbed


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## gimster

hisoundfi said:


> They are gr07 BE "like" with a similar signature. The gr07 BE is pretty epic and still better. Then again, the gr07 BE is a good iem for $200 IMHO. I put it away, test and demo the budget models, then go back to either them or the dnk. They are both lovely, and a reminder of how good these two are. I'm waiting for something under $100 to sound better than either of those two. Maybe it will be the vsd3? I hope so!
> 
> KZ ed3 is an absolute steal for 25 and well worth the 50 usd asking price. It's build quality and ergonomics are fantastic.


 
 So is everyone's favourite KZ in-ear the ED3?


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## Charliemotta

gimster said:


> So is everyone's favourite KZ in-ear the ED3?


 
 Yes ED3. There is also the KZ-A1 that sells for $10 that is very decent. I like KZ products.


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## Grayson73

hisoundfi said:


> They are gr07 BE "like" with a similar signature. The gr07 BE is pretty epic and still better. Then again, the gr07 BE is a good iem for $200 IMHO. I put it away, test and demo the budget models, then go back to either them or the dnk. They are both lovely, and a reminder of how good these two are. I'm waiting for something under $100 to sound better than either of those two. Maybe it will be the vsd3? I hope so!
> 
> KZ ed3 is an absolute steal for 25 and well worth the 50 usd asking price. It's build quality and ergonomics are fantastic.


 
 Do you like them more than Tenore and KC06?


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## Hisoundfi

grayson73 said:


> Do you like them more than Tenore and KC06?


I'm not going to say I like one more than the other. I will compare them though... 

Tenore- They isolate as well as tenore (I had to use aftermarket tips) they have a better cable and larger housings than the tenore. They are more midcentric than the tenore. They have equal bass quantity, or maybe slightly more than tenore, but bass quality on tenore is better. Treble seems more natural to me than on the tenore and is brighter (this could change with burn in) 

KC06-Build quality is about a tie, but ed3 has better strain reliefs. KC06 has a more ergonomic fit. Neither of them have a cinch cable (bummer). This is harder to explain so I'll just give my opinion of which wins in each category. 

Bass: ed3
Low mids: ed3
High mids: kc06
Treble: kc06
Soundstage: it's a tie 
Detail: kc06
Isolation: ed3

Ed3 sounds fuller and richer to me. Kc06 sounds more balanced and more reference. ED3 is balanced more than most budget iems, but kc06 is just that good in terms of being flat. I honestly couldn't pick one over the other, they are both great. 

These are just my opinions on the two. Hope it helps give you an idea of what they sound like.


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## Hisoundfi

The thing I like about the ed3 (I'm sure someone is going to disagree) is that there's more high bass/low mids than on the tenore. The ed3 puts weight on male vocals and low notes of the piano. I feel like that was missing on the tenore. It's fixable on the tenore via an eq adjustment. Mids are more forward on the ed3 than the tenore. They are easier to drive than the tenore. The tenore is better in micro details. The treble and symbals on the ed3 are crisp and sharp. I'm starting to appreciate it when manufacturers tune their stuff to push the limits on treble just to the point that it's sharp but not annoyingly sibilant. The ed3 does just that.


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## krist2an

ED3 vs Pistons, which one wins? I think I lost my old Pistons, so I need a new pair


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## Hisoundfi

They have 2 different sound signatures so it's hard to put them against each other. I say that it's a tie. If you listen to many different kinds of music and want something more midcentric and balanced go with ed3. If you listen to a lot of edm, and electronic music and want lots of bass and a v signature, get the piston.


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## gimster

krist2an said:


> ED3 vs Pistons, which one wins? I think I lost my old Pistons, so I need a new pair


 
 ED3 in my books. The Pistons (2.0) were a surprise when I popped them in at first, but I struggled with the fit and the short cable and the sound signature gets tiresome after a while. So I got rid of them.
  
 The ED3 looks better in real life than in the photos and feels smoother to my finger tips compared to the Pistons too


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## bhazard

My ED3 right driver is defective. Have to see if I can get a replacement.


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## crow1994

I have recieved KZ ED3 and want to say that they are not so great as Xiaomi Piston 2.1 with mod and tea bag. Scene of KZ ED3 is average, treble a bit sharp. But bass and treble are near to be perfect. As for quality, it is really cool, better that a lot of headphones that I had (UE600, Sennheiser IE8, Sunrise Xcape). Sound is incredible for price, but Pistons are better. In my opinion with mod and tea bag they are so great as Sennheiser IE8 or Audio-Technica M50.


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## Grayson73

KZ ED3 now $19.25
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/1869010918.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id=ae_pay_low_mail_template_en_US_2014-06-25


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## bhazard

New models out, and a cheap clearance on some of the KZ-2013.


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## BenF

bhazard said:


> New models out, and a cheap clearance on some of the KZ-2013.


 

 What are the new models?


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## Wokei

grayson73 said:


> KZ ED3 now $19.25
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/1869010918.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id=ae_pay_low_mail_template_en_US_2014-06-25




YUP .....most of my KZ earphones are bought from this seller ....excellent customer service and by far the best price for KZ models and also many other brands.

I highly recommend for those interested to try out KZ products ......


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## crow1994

I have received ED1, GR and C56R. C56R is not very bad, but only average headphones. ED1 is same level earphones with ED3. More dark, but more accurate at high mids. GR is my new favorite. It is really better than ED1 and ED3. Great scene, tasty powerful and fast bass, beautiful and full mids, excellent highs, more detailed than ED3 (one level with modded Pistons).


----------



## BenF

crow1994 said:


> I have received ED1, GR and C56R. C56R is not very bad, but only average headphones. ED1 is same level earphones with ED3. More dark, but more accurate at high mids. GR is my new favorite. It is really better than ED1 and ED3. Great scene, tasty powerful and fast bass, beautiful and full mids, excellent highs, more detailed than ED3 (one level with modded Pistons).


 

 Did you try changing the filters on the GR?


----------



## crow1994

Is there a filter? Or you talk about changeable nozzle? It is great with red one.


----------



## bhazard

yep, GR with red nozzle is good stuff


----------



## BenF

crow1994 said:


> Is there a filter? Or you talk about changeable nozzle? It is great with red one.


 
 yes, the nozzles. The black one is supposed to give more bass, the read one is for a balanced sound.


----------



## crow1994

It is not worse than Pistons with mod and better than ED1 and ED3. I am afraid what will be after 10-20 hours of Isotek =)


----------



## Wokei

crow1994 said:


> Is there a filter? Or you talk about changeable nozzle? It is great with red one.




Yes ...with the black filter ...bass becomes too much and everything else sounds muffled....red filter good.

The only issue I have with GR ...ITS HEAVY ....for real ....got to insert them real tight and snug .


----------



## crow1994

Yeah, they are really HEAVY) But it is cool in my opinion. There is a feeling of a medieval treasure in ears)


----------



## Wokei

crow1994 said:


> It is not worse than Pistons with mod and better than ED1 and ED3. I am afraid what will be after 10-20 hours of Isotek =)




Burn them man ...for me i kick the **** out of them with drum n bass .

Red nozzle ...bass bcum more tight and pronounced ...sounds much more better than outta box ....


----------



## crow1994

Not only drum n bass, rock is their element too)
 New model - http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-tuner-professional-grade-music-earphones-ear-wire-music/1924121719.html
 I have bought it today's morninig.


----------



## Wokei

crow1994 said:


> Not only drum n bass, rock is their element too)
> New model - http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-tuner-professional-grade-music-earphones-ear-wire-music/1924121719.html
> I have bought it today's morninig.




Impressions please when received ...me saw that too...gotta stop buying for a while ..Lol

Cheers


----------



## Konstantin690

Hi all,
  
 Have just received the R3, I ordered the Linear version but I'm not sure that this is really what I received as the bass is really strong on these.
 Anyways, I'm really impressed, the cable alone justifies the cost and they are really beautiful.
 Sound wise, not bad at all, if you own a pair do yourself the favor and remove the wax protection screens, I found both where partially blocked with the attaching glue.
 I have them on my "burning rig" for the moment and will make a comparison with my IE8 just for the fun of it later.


----------



## Grayson73

ED3 only $12 now.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED3-acme-silver-grade-HIFI-fever-in-ear-headphones-The-transient-heavy-low-quality-earbuds/1869010918.html


----------



## rafaelroxalot

and now guys, which kz is the best right now? ed3 or GR or another one? or the wood one? anyone compared to vsd3s vsonic?


----------



## Charliemotta

Hmmm. KZ- R3, KZ-GR, KZ-Tuner, KZ -5.8, KZ A1  for starters.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

vsd3s can't be compared? these one not worth?


----------



## Charliemotta

Have not heard the Vsd3 so i can't say...I'm sure it's a fine iem, I just like KZ .


----------



## Charliemotta

Red rules....me no black


----------



## rafaelroxalot

you got all the kz? lol which is the best one?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

there are fake ones on aliexpress or they don't do fake kz? lol because there are some sellers with better prices...


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> there are fake ones on aliexpress or they don't do fake kz? lol because there are some sellers with better prices...




Imho ..they are no fake KZ as yet ...the link me sent to you via pm ...reliable and fast shipping ...by all mean if you can find cheaper seller .....as for me ...i rather stick with a reliable seller which I have bought many time even though they might be slightly expensive...


----------



## Hisoundfi

Got the kz ed special edition in. Sounds really good with a v signature and booming low end. So far I enjoy it more than the ed3. Punches WAY beyond the $15 usd I paid.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Got the kz ed special edition in. Sounds really good with a v signature and booming low end. So far I enjoy it more than the ed3. Punches WAY beyond the $15 usd I paid.




Me happy to hear they are good... me KZ Special Edition should be here next week....lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Me happy to hear they are good... me KZ Special Edition should be here next week....lol


 I got the kz ed special edition and Topping nx1 at the same time. Must have been an omen to listen to them together. Sounds amazeballs. 

Thanks Wokei for recommending the nx1.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I got the kz ed special edition and Topping nx1 at the same time. Must have been an omen to listen to them together. Sounds amazeballs.
> 
> Thanks Wokei for recommending the nx1.




Another amp me have which imho even better is Little Bird B-2 ...bought this one for USD55 comes with 4 op chip that can be change for different sound signature ie. Burr Brown 2604 n 2134 , JRC4556 and NE5532.....if you want to check out this amp ..here is the link http://www.head-fi.org/t/696825/topping-nx1-portable-headphone-amplifier-impressions-thread/420 pg29 ..here is a pic for comparo size with NX1


----------



## Hisoundfi

Kz ed special edition is fabulous


----------



## Charliemotta

Yes they are quite awesome I must admit, and that's right out of the box. For the others looking for this great iem, it also goes by the name "KZ-ED2" ...or "KZ - ED Special Edition Professional"...they are both one of the same.
   Highly recommended  ♫♫


----------



## Shawn71

hisoundfi said:


> Kz ed special edition is fabulous




Where did you buy from?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Aliexpress


----------



## rafaelroxalot

I ordered the r3 wood one, the kz gr with black and red stuff and the a1...
May i get the ed2? Or ed3? Better ones or different sound signatures?


----------



## Charliemotta

If it were me I'd get the KZ-ED2   *♫ ♫ ♫*


----------



## robervaul

hisoundfi said:


> Aliexpress


 
 Could you provide the link or the seller ? There is much difference in prices between different sellers.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Better than ed3? And different than kz-r3, kz-gr and kz-a1?


----------



## Hisoundfi

rafaelroxalot said:


> Better than ed3? And different than kz-r3, kz-gr and kz-a1?


These kzedse have forward mids, strong bass presence, and formidable treble. Build quality is great. I really like the cable on these. Strain reliefs are good, and the metal housings are built like tanks.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> These kzedse have forward mids, strong bass presence, and formidable treble. Build quality is great. I really like the cable on these. Strain reliefs are good, and the metal housings are built like tanks.




Cant wait to get mine .....woot woot ....me will get me bra n panty ready for them ....lol


----------



## mochill

I like the kz ed special edition as well ... Might not sell it as well as the ed3


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Cant wait to get mine .....woot woot ....me will get me bra n panty ready for them ....lol


be careful friend, the build quality and great sound on these are panty droppers


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> be careful friend, the build quality and great sound on these are panty droppers




Muaaaahaaaaaa ...evil luff n greasing me palm ....ready to drop ....


----------



## rafaelroxalot

So is not worthy get the ed3 and ed2? Or these 2 have different sound signatures?
Tell me something hisoundfi, compared these kz to gr07 of vsonic, which have similar sound signature? And how much % of quality sound i get with Gr07 compared to kz? Thanks


----------



## rafaelroxalot

anyone tried kz r1? is like the case small of sennheiser cx300? can wear when put your head on pillow?  i want one that i can listen with my head on pillow...


----------



## jant71

If anybody in the US is interested, I was thinking of selling my R3 Linear Pro along with my Soundsoul U10(essentially a Moxpad X3) since they share a cable. Time to find them a new home.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rafaelroxalot said:


> So is not worthy get the ed3 and ed2? Or these 2 have different sound signatures?
> Tell me something hisoundfi, compared these kz to gr07 of vsonic, which have similar sound signature? And how much % of quality sound i get with Gr07 compared to kz? Thanks


GR07BE is a hall of fame iem. I would say that you get 60-70 percent the sq of them. The build on them are excellent. The kz ed special edition has a warm signature with lots of bass, forward mids and formidable treble. They are powerful and rich and slightly dark. The ed3 is crisper brighter and more detailed than the edse. they are both excellent iems. I prefer the special edition over the ed3 because it's less fatiguing. I prefer a warmer darker signature most of the time. 

Yes they are both worth purchasing. 

Hope this helps


----------



## Hisoundfi

rafaelroxalot said:


> So is not worthy get the ed3 and ed2? Or these 2 have different sound signatures?
> Tell me something hisoundfi, compared these kz to gr07 of vsonic, which have similar sound signature? And how much % of quality sound i get with Gr07 compared to kz? Thanks


between the two, the ed3 has closer tuning to the GR07BE. Still I prefer the tuning of the kz special edition


----------



## mochill

:-\.... The ed special edition is really. Warm versus the ed3 :-S.... Ed3has fuller bass and more warm midrange


----------



## robervaul

Hisoundfi,which the seller you bought?


----------



## Hisoundfi

mochill said:


> :-\.... The ed special edition is really. Warm versus the ed3 :-S.... Ed3has fuller bass and more warm midrange


Idk mochill. I'm a-b comparison right now and I do get a warmer signature but also more bass on these ed special edition.


----------



## Hisoundfi

robervaul said:


> Hisoundfi,which the seller you bought?


I bought my ed special edition on aliexpress


----------



## mochill

:/... That's awkward :S...maybe source is responsible


----------



## robervaul

hisoundfi said:


> I bought my ed special edition on aliexpress




This?http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1974879251.html?tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail
Store,Earphones and Headphones


----------



## Hisoundfi

mochill said:


> :/... That's awkward :S...maybe source is responsible


either that or maybe tips?


----------



## robervaul

Someone knows something about GR?

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1987291707.html?tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail


----------



## Hisoundfi

Seller name was he yue, but that link looks pretty legit.


----------



## robervaul

hisoundfi said:


> Seller name was he yue, but that link looks pretty legit.




Very Nice.The price is very attractive $ $


----------



## mochill

Just listened to the edse and yes bassy with hip hop ....


----------



## robervaul

Hi guys, does KZ have an official website ?


----------



## bhazard

robervaul said:


> Hi guys, does KZ have an official website ?


 
 http://taoctt.taobao.com/index.htm?spm=2013.1.w5002-218015938.2.xIC2vr


----------



## bhazard

Another day, another KZ model:
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=40469829718


----------



## Hisoundfi

These kz ed special edition are really hitting a sweet spot with me. Strong bass, forward mids, and not overly bright and sparkly and crisp treble. 

For the price I don't know of anything that comes remotely close. 

If I put a price on these I would charge WAY more! 

I'm listening to Angus & Julia Stone's "Down the Way" album (which is amazing for headphones and iems) and it sounds epic.


----------



## lahin

hisoundfi said:


> These kz ed special edition are really hitting a sweet spot with me. Strong bass, forward mids, and not overly bright and sparkly and crisp treble.
> 
> For the price I don't know of anything that comes remotely close.
> 
> ...


 
 How would you compare the bass on kz edse to eph-100? I have the eph-100 and I love them. I also just placed an order for the kz edse (you pretty much convinced me) and was wondering how they stack up to the eph-100.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Hisoundfi

lahin said:


> How would you compare the bass on kz edse to eph-100? I have the eph-100 and I love them. I also just placed an order for the kz edse (you pretty much convinced me) and was wondering how they stack up to the eph-100.
> 
> Thanks!


sorry friend I've never heard the eph-100. Please look at my headphone inventory and see if there is something we both own that I could compare it to. 

I will say that I definitely have a preferred signature and these edse are spot on with the tuning I like


----------



## lahin

hisoundfi said:


> sorry friend I've never heard the eph-100. Please look at my headphone inventory and see if there is something we both own that I could compare it to.
> 
> I will say that I definitely have a preferred signature and these edse are spot on with the tuning I like


 
 No problem. I took a look at you inventory and we don't share any common iems haha. I'm pretty new to this and the only iems I've ever had (and still have) are vsonic gr02 be, jvc ha-fx1x, jvc-hafx101, eph-100, and soon kz ed se. From what you said so far about the kz ed se, I think I'd like them. I listen to a lot of edm and I'm hoping they suit that genre.


----------



## Hisoundfi

They have very forward mids, which might not be ideal with edm. Still, they sound pretty good with it. 

These are great for acoustic music and live performance recordings. They are great with vocals, and anything that is midrange oriented. They are extended on both ends with a good amount of bass and treble, the midrange is just very forward IMHO


----------



## Hisoundfi

Does anyone have the kz micro ring? 

Care to share impressions? 

Thanks in advance


----------



## fnkcow

hisoundfi said:


> Got the kz ed special edition in. Sounds really good with a v signature and booming low end. So far I enjoy it more than the ed3. Punches WAY beyond the $15 usd I paid.


 
  


hisoundfi said:


> These kz ed special edition are really hitting a sweet spot with me. Strong bass, forward mids, and not overly bright and sparkly and crisp treble.
> 
> For the price I don't know of anything that comes remotely close.
> 
> ...


 
  


hisoundfi said:


> They have very forward mids, which might not be ideal with edm. Still, they sound pretty good with it.
> 
> These are great for acoustic music and live performance recordings. They are great with vocals, and anything that is midrange oriented. They are extended on both ends with a good amount of bass and treble, the midrange is just very forward IMHO


 
  
 Very forward mids but v signature? I'm confused
 Strong bass, warm forward vocals and non sibilant treble do sound like my cup of tea


----------



## destrozer

fnkcow said:


> Very forward mids but v signature? I'm confused
> Strong bass, warm forward vocals and non sibilant treble do sound like my cup of tea


 
  
 I'm confused too so...
  
 I bought one to to un-confuse myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still waiting for it!


----------



## Wokei

destrozer said:


> I'm confused too so...
> 
> I bought one to to un-confuse myself. :etysmile:
> 
> Still waiting for it!




No confusion ...pretty good bass slam ..mid is forward with vocal quite upfront and treble might be hot for some who are sensitive to the brightness ..but me like the treble very much ..good details and clarity ...what the heck for USD10 ...why not ....imho good confusion will clear up when they arrive ..if you dont like ..can give it away as gift ..better than off shelf supernarket cheapo iem ( definitely ) ..they are so good for the price ..me getting another for back up ..


----------



## Shawn71

destrozer said:


> I'm confused too so...
> 
> I bought one to to un-confuse myself. :etysmile:




LoL


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Does anyone have the kz micro ring?
> 
> Care to share impressions?
> 
> Thanks in advance




Wokei ..reporting to duty for Hisoundfi

Me have KZ MICRO RING ...



Bro ..if you like KZ EDSE ....me think you will likey Micro Ring too..

Bass ...wee bit meatier than EDSE
Vocally forward too but not as EDSE
Treble is good but not as bright as EDSE.

ALL IN ALL ...very similar to EDSE ...just a bit more bass punch n less airier soundstage than EDSE ....IMHO about 70 % similarity ...but in term of fitting ..5 Wokei Stars for it ...light and comfy ..


----------



## Hisoundfi

fnkcow said:


> Very forward mids but v signature? I'm confused
> Strong bass, warm forward vocals and non sibilant treble do sound like my cup of tea


First post was an initial impression. The sound has changed with burn in


----------



## Hisoundfi

fnkcow said:


> Very forward mids but v signature? I'm confused
> Strong bass, warm forward vocals and non sibilant treble do sound like my cup of tea


mids and treble have come forward. It's not sibilant bight highs extend well and can get just a touch peaky depending on source and tracks being played


----------



## peter123

OK , @Wokei and @Hisoundfi you guys are now responsible for me ordering the KZ edse. It was $9,80 shipped so it better be good or else.........


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> OK , @Wokei and @Hisoundfi you guys are now responsible for me ordering the KZ edse. It was $9,80 shipped so it better be good or else.........




peter123 

Me will give you Wokei 5 Stars Guarantee....lol ...and here is something for you until they arrive ....


----------



## Charliemotta

Just bought a 2nd EDSE for $9.80 and another KZ-A1 for $3.90....gotta have spares..*..♫ ♫*


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> Just bought a 2nd EDSE for $9.80 and another KZ-A1 for $3.90....gotta have spares..*..♫ ♫*




Massa Charlie ...KZ Fan Boi in da house ....


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> OK , @Wokei and @Hisoundfi you guys are now responsible for me ordering the KZ edse. It was $9,80 shipped so it better be good or else.........


 

I'll buy them off you if you don't like them. 

For $5...

Muahahaha


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I'll buy them off you if you don't like them.
> 
> For $5...
> 
> Muahahaha




peter123

Me buy from you for 5.01$ plus shipping on me ...muahahahahahahahaaaaa


----------



## Charliemotta

I'll buy
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for $5.02 plus framed signed picture of Wokei in bra and panties....


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> I'll buy for $5.02 plus framed signed picture of Wokei in bra and panties....


 You better join and contribute to the Wokei appreciation thread dude, we need contributions like this!


----------



## peter123

@Charliemotta
Lol!

You're first in line


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> I'll buy for $5.02 plus framed signed picture of Wokei in bra and panties....




Whoaaaaaa.......dont be hawking me pic ....nice avatar ...lol ....here sumthing for you ....


----------



## destrozer

peter123 said:


> OK , @Wokei and @Hisoundfi you guys are now responsible for me ordering the KZ edse. It was $9,80 shipped so it better be good or else.........


 
 Where did you get it for this price?!


----------



## Wokei

destrozer said:


> Where did you get it for this price?! :eek:




Me friend ....here 

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1380688_1987244299.html

Get it .....


----------



## destrozer

wokei said:


> Me friend ....here
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1380688_1987244299.html
> 
> Get it .....


 
 Unfortunately, I already got it from this store... more expensive plus slower shipping! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED2-professional-in-ear-headphones-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-headphones/1974879251.html


----------



## peter123

@destrozer

Sorry about that but at least the shipping from where I got mine will take much longer than stated according to others buying from them.


----------



## destrozer

peter123 said:


> @destrozer
> 
> Sorry about that but at least the shipping from where I got mine will take much longer than stated according to others buying from them.


 
  
 I just can't wait for it to arrive. The wait is agonizing.


----------



## peter123

Yes I know. The trick is to always have a lot of packages in the loop. This way there's always something coming and time move faster. Gets a bit expensive in the long run though


----------



## Wokei

destrozer said:


> I just can't wait for it to arrive. The wait is agonizing.




Me bought from that store before n delivery is pretty fast from them


----------



## destrozer

peter123 said:


> Yes I know. The trick is to always have a lot of packages in the loop. This way there's always something coming and time move faster. Gets a bit expensive in the long run though


 
  
 Yes, this will rip a huge hole in my pocket in no time too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


wokei said:


> Me bought from that store before n delivery is pretty fast from them


 
  
 That's some good news then! Ordered since 2 days ago and I can't wait already!


----------



## Hisoundfi

Does anyone own the kz tuner? 

Impressions? 

Thanks in advance


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Does anyone own the kz tuner?
> 
> Impressions?
> 
> Thanks in advance




Wokei reporting for duty Hisoundfi

Me have them ..outta box ..meh ...on burn station now ....couple of days will update you... Masaa Hi !


----------



## Wokei

destrozer said:


> That's some good news then! Ordered since 2 days ago and I can't wait already!




Me experience with this Ali seller ...never more than 20 days ...


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Wokei reporting for duty Hisoundfi
> 
> Me have them ..outta box ..meh ...on burn station now ....couple of days will update you... Masaa Hi !


Thank you massa Wokei... 

The force is strong in this one...


----------



## crow1994

I have KZ Tuner. Nothing interesting. Have a lot of common with ED1.


----------



## Wokei

crow1994 said:


> I have KZ Tuner. Nothing interesting. Have a lot of common with ED1.






hisoundfi said:


> Thank you massa Wokei...
> 
> The force is strong in this one...




Though for 10$ me paid for it ...excellent cable as usual from KZ ....me find the treble is a bit all over the place especially for EDM and fast paced song with a lot of details ....but will give an update after a week un the burn pit ....


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Anyone ordered the kz-r95?
Kz-r1 is worth to buy?


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> Anyone ordered the kz-r95?
> Kz-r1 is worth to buy?




Wokei waiting for KZ R 95 ..yes Massa Rafaelroxalot.....will update on them when they arrive ....

KZ R1 ..me no have ..but from memory ....some headfier have bought them before ....mmmmmm


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Im ready to buy kz ed2 special editon ad ed3...


----------



## Wokei

_Update_

Those interested in buying KZ EDSE ...better hurry as the price for this baby have gone up ....no more 9.80$ ....they have gone to 13$ and 15$ ...two Aliexpress store ...the cheapest now .....dont get left behind ...:rolleyes:


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> Im ready to buy kz ed2 special editon ad ed3...




KZ EDSE ...9.80$ get it here ..best price 

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1380688_1987244299.html


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> KZ EDSE ...9.80$ get it here ..best price
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1380688_1987244299.html


 
 with KZ edse i get the ed3 or not?


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> with KZ edse i get the ed3 or not?




Hell yeah ..for 8$ why not ...thats what we headfier are for .....to help you to buy more ....the only catch is ..there is no commission on our parts ..we just like to see other buy as much as we have ...or in this me ...ME ....MUAHHHAAAAAAAAAAA 

Yes.... We like to help each other 

Update 

Or you could get KZ A1 for 3.90$ if you dont want to get KZ ED3 but A1 is a bass monster with decent clarity ..very V shaped sound signature ....one of the first KZ model that got headfiers attention ...lol ...yes too many to buy ..right ?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> Hell yeah ..for 8$ why not ...thats what we headfier are for .....to help you to buy more ....the only catch is ..there is no commission on our parts ..we just like to see other buy as much as we have ...or in this me ...ME ....MUAHHHAAAAAAAAAAA
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol  ok i will buy both... these have microphonics?


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> lol  ok i will buy both... these have microphonics?




From me recollections ...me dont think they have mic for smartphone use ...I could be wrong ...best to ask the seller  ....me think so far only KZ ED1 have mic


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> From me recollections ...me dont think they have mic for smartphone use ...I could be wrong ...best to ask the seller
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 no no, i said microphonics... on the cable... when you move the cable you listen the sound inside the earphone...


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> no no, i said microphonics... on the cable... when you move the cable you listen the sound inside the earphone...




Oh sorry ...me no take me pills this morning .....from me KZ MODELS me have ...very minimal ....lol....on that note ..me take pills now :mad:


----------



## mochill

No mix on the kz model iirc :-/... Bothe the ed3 and edse are top notch iem for the cheap ... And beautiful as well ^_~


----------



## Wokei

mochill said:


> No mix on the kz model iirc :-/... Bothe the ed3 and edse are top notch iem for the cheap ... And beautiful as well ^_~




+ woot woot ...kick ass cable n built quality ...more than decent sound ....

mochill u should try KZ 5.8mm Micro Ring n CM9 ...


----------



## mochill

How do they compare


----------



## Wokei

mochill said:


> How do they compare




CM9 - vocally does it for me ...very forward and smooth 
5.8mm Micro Ring - imho it is better than ED3 ...super comfy fit ....not as airy as ED3 . Treble wise definitely better than ED3 ( too bright for me taste ) ....bass is just the right amount with good slam ...

All in all for less than 25$ ...heck ..why not ?


----------



## mochill




----------



## rafaelroxalot

Confortable? Which kz is more confortable to use to sleep in a pillow...?


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> Confortable? Which kz is more confortable to use to sleep in a pillow...?




Me dont know what kind of ears you got ....lol .....as for Wokei ...the KZ model i find good for me is 5.8mm Micro Ring ...really small n really really light ..super comfy ( yeah me prederence in iem is comfy factor ) .......gotta stop responding to your post ....man ...u r on a buying spree ....like me other half always nagged me about ....how many pairs of ears you have


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> Me dont know what kind of ears you got ....lol .....as for Wokei ...the KZ model i find good for me is 5.8mm Micro Ring ...really small n really really light ..super comfy ( yeah me prederence in iem is comfy factor ) .......gotta stop responding to your post ....man ...u r on a buying spree ....like me other half always nagged me about ....how many pairs of ears you have




I am newbie here, buying many cheap stuff to know better the signatures and see which will fit better to try expensive ones later... Thanks for your support man, you are great, helping with a funny way lol


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> I am newbie here, buying many cheap stuff to know better the signatures and see which will fit better to try expensive ones later... Thanks for your support man, you are great, helping with a funny way lol




Juz joking ..man ....Always willing to help you spend your MONEY ....muahaaaahaaaaaaa

Hey ...me newbie too ...


----------



## Pastapipo

Which KZ brings out the most detail? 
I had the kz ed3 but didn't like it, it didn't do anything wrong, but nothing right for me at the same time. 
I have to give it to mochill, he was right about having enough bass


----------



## bhazard

pastapipo said:


> Which KZ brings out the most detail?
> I had the kz ed3 but didn't like it, it didn't do anything wrong, but nothing right for me at the same time.
> I have to give it to mochill, he was right about having enough bass


 
 Special Edition.
  
 Those 2 aliexpress sellers that say "official store" yet ship by fedex ip and US are scams. Do not order from any seller claiming fedex or UPS with no feedback.
  
 They will change the shipment to China Post and then never send it. Do a dispute now and get your money back. The scam is after 45 days or when aliexpress protection runs out, they'll keep your money and never ship.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

bhazard said:


> Special Edition.
> 
> Those 2 aliexpress sellers that say "official store" yet ship by fedex ip and US are scams. Do not order from any seller claiming fedex or UPS with no feedback.
> 
> They will change the shipment to China Post and then never send it. Do a dispute now and get your money back. The scam is after 45 days or when aliexpress protection runs out, they'll keep your money and never ship.


Those 2 sellers are the same... I ordered from one of then and the tracking already working, but is china post..


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> Those 2 sellers are the same... I ordered from one of then and the tracking already working, but is china post..




Yup ...the store listing on the shipping details is misleading ....received the orders from "GK " store ....took about 19 days to arrive from the day ordered....fyi .


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> Yup ...the store listing on the shipping details is misleading ....received the orders from "GK " store ....took about 19 days to arrive from the day ordered....fyi .



Mine didnt arrived yet but is on the way on tracking... But yours came all ok from gk? I chat with seller its the same from the official store, but have different name...


----------



## altrunox

Just saying you guys should post more pictures of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, I got the Special Edition, the sexy cable and the white RX ( LOL, it`s 1usd cheaper than the black 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
 Probably I wont like them more than any other from my collection, but they look really sexy, so I can just give them to someone else.


----------



## lahin

I purchased mine from the "gk headset official flagship store" 5 days ago and my tracking number says China post has not received the order. I just finished chatting with the seller and turns out they haven't shipped the item at all. I finally got them to agree to give me a refund once I can open a dispute. I would steer clear of all the "flagship" and "official" KZ stores.
 At one point in the chat they said "Frankly, we are not good enough. I'm sorry". I don't know what to make of it.


----------



## altrunox

LOL, I guess the problem is that they don`t understand english.
  
 "brXxxxxx4(2014-08-10 20:04:55):

 hello friend, the shipping method is really EMS?
  
 cnXxxxx941(2014-08-10 20:08:16):
 You mean, the international express delivery is affected by the environment? Yes it is."


----------



## lahin

altrunox said:


> LOL, I guess the problem is that they don`t understand english.
> 
> "brXxxxxx4(2014-08-10 20:04:55):
> 
> ...


 
 That is hilarious!!


----------



## rafaelroxalot

lahin said:


> I purchased mine from the "gk headset official flagship store" 5 days ago and my tracking number says China post has not received the order. I just finished chatting with the seller and turns out they haven't shipped the item at all. I finally got them to agree to give me a refund once I can open a dispute. I would steer clear of all the "flagship" and "official" KZ stores.
> At one point in the chat they said "Frankly, we are not good enough. I'm sorry". I don't know what to make of it.


 they seems not speak english well... Difficult to understand... I received the tracking number but took a week to show information about the tracking... Now is on the way to brazil...


----------



## rafaelroxalot

altrunox said:


> LOL, I guess the problem is that they don`t understand english.
> 
> "[COLOR=0033CC]brXxxxxx4[/COLOR](2014-08-10 20:04:55):
> 
> ...


 




I agree, they dont


----------



## Wokei

Me conversation with some seller on Ali ....China Post tracking...

The days for the tracking info to show up ranges from 5 -10 days excluding Sat n Sun ...they will sent the package to post office ..once certain amount of packages are collected ..they are sent to the sorting centre ..that is then ..you will see the tracking info ....


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> Me conversation with some seller on Ali ....China Post tracking...
> 
> The days for the tracking info to show up ranges from 5 -10 days excluding Sat n Sun ...they will sent the package to post office ..once certain amount of packages are collected ..they are sent to the sorting centre ..that is then ..you will see the tracking info ....



Yours came all right from gk store? With box? the phone all ok?


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> Yours came all right from gk store? With box? the phone all ok?




Bro ..everything in box and well packed ...


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Thanks wokei  ordering more kz lol


----------



## PeterDLai

bhazard said:


> Those 2 aliexpress sellers that say "official store" yet ship by fedex ip and US are scams. Do not order from any seller claiming fedex or UPS with no feedback.
> 
> They will change the shipment to China Post and then never send it. Do a dispute now and get your money back. The scam is after 45 days or when aliexpress protection runs out, they'll keep your money and never ship.


 
  
 Is it highly common for Aliexpress sellers to ignore faster shipping options that they offer on the site? I purchased my KC06A off a seller and paid $4.25 extra for ePacket since it was offered (and even with the additional $4.25 it was cheaper than anywhere else on the net at the time), but they shipped it China Post Air Mail anyway. I did receive the package about 17 days after they shipped it (it probably would have been 13-14 days but USPS made a mistake in their routing) but I was still peeved that I paid extra for nothing.
  
 Now I'm looking at sellers for other products that offer free ePacket shipping (not talking about the ones you're warning us are scams), but after getting nothing out of paying for upgraded shipping, can I have any hope that another seller will ship using a faster method for free?


----------



## bhazard

peterdlai said:


> Is it highly common for Aliexpress sellers to ignore faster shipping options that they offer on the site? I purchased my KC06A off a seller and paid $4.25 extra for ePacket since it was offered (and even with the additional $4.25 it was cheaper than anywhere else on the net at the time), but they shipped it China Post Air Mail anyway. I did receive the package about 17 days after they shipped it (it probably would have been 13-14 days but USPS made a mistake in their routing) but I was still peeved that I paid extra for nothing.
> 
> Now I'm looking at sellers for other products that offer free ePacket shipping (not talking about the ones you're warning us are scams), but after getting nothing out of paying for upgraded shipping, can I have any hope that another seller will ship using a faster method for free?


 
 ePacket is the next affordable shipping option. Everything else is express and gets expensive.
  
 ePacket > Hong Kong Post > Singapore Post > Sweden Post> China Post based on speed


----------



## Charliemotta

SuperDeals Bestselling

Buyer Protection​   Help​   Mobile​   Ship to / USD​ / Select Language​
CATEGORIES 

   On AliExpressIn this store

Cart
Wish List
Sign in | Join My AliExpress(8)








Earphones and Headphones Store No.615477


----------



## bhazard

You have to use the Taobao store if you want it to come officially from KZ.


----------



## altrunox

bhazard said:


> You have to use the Taobao store if you want it to come officially from KZ.


 
  
 Could you or anyone else ask in Taobao if the Aliexpress store is really an official store?


----------



## nihontoman

peterdlai said:


> Is it highly common for Aliexpress sellers to ignore faster shipping options that they offer on the site? I purchased my KC06A off a seller and paid $4.25 extra for ePacket since it was offered (and even with the additional $4.25 it was cheaper than anywhere else on the net at the time), but they shipped it China Post Air Mail anyway. I did receive the package about 17 days after they shipped it (it probably would have been 13-14 days but USPS made a mistake in their routing) but I was still peeved that I paid extra for nothing.
> 
> Now I'm looking at sellers for other products that offer free ePacket shipping (not talking about the ones you're warning us are scams), but after getting nothing out of paying for upgraded shipping, can I have any hope that another seller will ship using a faster method for free?




I only had similar problem recently. Seller used hong kong post air mail instead of epacket. Both were free and hongkong post came as fast as the epacket typically does but still. When I asked the seller why he changed shipping method he said epacket wasn't safe for fragile parcells... Mind you it was a set of steel lug nuts that I ordered and it made me curious what could ever happen to them during shipping, but still...


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Does anyone own the kz tuner?
> 
> Impressions?
> 
> Thanks in advance




Forget about them ...the brightness will make you wear shades ...treble wise very artificial sounding ..everything sound twangy ....bass thump is like splaaaatttttt...no body ...but the funny things is me other half likes it very much ...she only listen to sentimental K-Pop at very very low volume ...so me supposed there is a earphone /iem for everybody at any price ......she still wont return me FIIO x3 though ..sad sad ..


----------



## rontant

Guys, I know this sounds silly but should I forego buying Havi B3 Pro1 for any of these KZ models? I have already have IM70 and Piston 2 IF.  A Ttpod 1E is on the way too.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> Guys, I know this sounds silly but should I forego buying Havi B3 Pro1 for any of these KZ models? I have already have IM70 and Piston 2 IF.  A Ttpod 1E is on the way too.


The b3 is a different creature in terms of sound signature. It's a beautifully balanced and detailed iem. It will compliment the other iems you have. 

I will say though, there's tons of kz stuff on sale on aliexpress right now. The sale ends at midnight in China so there's a few hours left I think. 

It's a great opportunity to get a bunch of kz stuff for cheap, even cheaper than normal.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> Guys, I know this sounds silly but should I forego buying Havi B3 Pro1 for any of these KZ models? I have already have IM70 and Piston 2 IF.  A Ttpod 1E is on the way too.




Havi ...without a doubt though mine is on the way .....its widely recommended by most who have them ....

Imho ..me would recommed KZ EDSE,and GR .


----------



## Hisoundfi

Just ordered the kz 3.5 mm lossless extension cable x2, kz-gr, kz-rx, kz micro ring, and kz-r3 linear.

The prices were too good to not get them. That aliexpress sale was phenomenal.


----------



## Gandroid

hisoundfi said:


> Just ordered the kz 3.5 mm lossless extension cable x2, kz-gr, kz-rx, kz micro ring, and kz-r3 linear.
> 
> The prices were too good to not get them. That aliexpress sale was phenomenal.


 
 Any particular seller?


----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> Just ordered the kz 3.5 mm lossless extension cable x2, kz-gr, kz-rx, kz micro ring, and kz-r3 linear.
> 
> The prices were too good to not get them. That aliexpress sale was phenomenal.


 
 Should have just asked me. I have a pile of KZ I need to sell off.


----------



## TooLazy

bhazard said:


> Should have just asked me. I have a pile of KZ I need to sell off.



What models do you have?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Anyone got the kz r95 the new one from kz?


----------



## destrozer

My goodies have arrived!


----------



## Wokei

destrozer said:


> My goodies have arrived!




What is that package ....?


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> The b3 is a different creature in terms of sound signature. It's a beautifully balanced and detailed iem. It will compliment the other iems you have.
> 
> I will say though, there's tons of kz stuff on sale on aliexpress right now. The sale ends at midnight in China so there's a few hours left I think.
> 
> It's a great opportunity to get a bunch of kz stuff for cheap, even cheaper than normal.


 
  
  


wokei said:


> Havi ...without a doubt though mine is on the way .....its widely recommended by most who have them ....
> 
> Imho ..me would recommed KZ EDSE,and GR .


 
  
 Thanks Mr. Wokei & Mr. Hisoundfi. I have just pulled a trigger five minutes ago on getting Havi.  Unfortunately that would eliminate any prospect of me getting any of these KZ lines or even any other IEM since I will be as good as a dead meat when my wife finds out in about a month time from now. 
  
 By the way Mr. Wokei, I saw one of your posts mentioning your Havi leaving Singapore. Did you get it from Singapore or was Singapore just a transit point?


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> Thanks Mr. Wokei & Mr. Hisoundfi. I have just pulled a trigger five minutes ago on getting Havi.  Unfortunately that would eliminate any prospect of me getting any of these KZ lines or even any other IEM since I will be as good as a dead meat when my wife finds out in about a month time from now.
> 
> By the way Mr. Wokei, I saw one of your posts mentioning your Havi leaving Singapore. Did you get it from Singapore or was Singapore just a transit point?




I got my Havi from LMUE ..they are located in Singapore ...so I dont think they are a transit point ....from their website ..you can even audition gears at their place ...

Btw ...Wokei is just fine and dandy ......Mr .Wokei is only for family member and the other half ...lol...

Enjoy your time in Headfi and Havi when they come ..about the wife ....muahahaaahahaaaa....let's hope she doesn't look like this !


----------



## destrozer

I must say, EDSE has me completely enamored.
 Lively sounding one I must say. More aggressive than the ED3, which sounded slightly subdued next to the EDSE.
  
 Very, very good value.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I purchased stuff from the kz official flagship store and am getting a big red flag. The tracking number he provided doesn't seem legit. I'm not going to freak out yet but a jank tracking number isn't agood sign.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I purchased stuff from the kz official flagship store and am getting a big red flag. The tracking number he provided doesn't seem legit. I'm not going to freak out yet but a jank tracking number isn't agood sign.




No freak out man ...
me bought from him too ...me goods arrived yesterday ...
he did the same too with me ..after me send him msg berating him ...
he gave me another tracking number which worked and which is actually the day he furnished the 1st tracking number ......wrong tracking number ..that's all 

Hope it work out ..man ...he is alright man ..Charliemotta also got his stuff from same seller ...

No worry man ..chill ..lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> No freak out man ...
> me bought from him too ...me goods arrived yesterday ...
> he did the same too with me ..after me send him msg berating him ...
> he gave me another tracking number which worked and which is actually the day he furnished the 1st tracking number ......wrong tracking number ..that's all
> ...


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Thanks for talking me off the ledge man...




The other possibility too ..it could take 5-7 days for the tracking number to show ..which is normal ..

You doctor right ? Then you would need a nurse ...



*DONT WANT YOU TO BE LOOKING LIKE THIS ON YOUR WEDDING DAY ...*


----------



## Shawn71

LoL....  

Hope you get your B3s before this weekend?


----------



## Wokei

shawn71 said:


> LoL....
> 
> Hope you get your B3s before this weekend?




LMUE replied me msg to them ..asking me to check with me post office ....this is the tracking info and already sent email to them ..so will wait for their reply from the post office...aaaaaaah


----------



## Shawn71

wokei said:


> LMUE replied me msg to them ..asking me to check with me post office ....this is the tracking info and already sent email to them ..so will wait for their reply from the post office...aaaaaaah




Ok..you can also go and verify in person with your local/regional/head PO......yeah You must be knowing better than me....dono abt malaysian customs processing and releasing the shipment either....


----------



## Wokei

shawn71 said:


> Ok..you can also go and verify in person with your local/regional/head PO......yeah You must be knowing better than me....dono abt malaysian customs processing and releasing the shipment either....




In normal circumstances ...after they arrived at airport ...custom clearance ....to Post Office central mail sorting ....local Post ....to Wokei ...all in 3-4 days but this is the first time it is taking that long ....going personally ...nah ...... Just received some KZ IEM which reach the airport on 18th August and in me hands yesterday....so me really don't know why this taking so long ..aaaaaahhhhhh!



*ALONE and no HAVI*


----------



## altrunox

I guess the problem with KZ official store is that the seller don`t know english very well...
 The extensions cable is really cheap now!
 Must get two of them


----------



## stevestarr13

I bought two pairs from him, the EDSE and the R1. Arrived pretty quick, no cases. The EDSE were as ordered but the R1 were blue not black. I messaged him and he said sorry that's all he had. No black. I asked why he did not ask before sending. All he says is ...sorry and offered me $3 if I buy another pair.
 I have opened a dispute with AliExpress


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> Imho ..me would recommed KZ EDSE,and GR .


 
  
The devil _Wokei_ made me do it.
  
 Ok, ordered both KZ EDSE and KZ GR as you recommended. This time I made a leap of faith ordering from Taobao directly without going through the usual purchasing agent (65daigou).


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> The devil _Wokei_ made me do it.


----------



## aeroG1

I've been snooping around the KZ store on taobao and found a couple things that caught my interest, namely:
  
 The MX760: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4002-78114760.87.aJIx3U&id=36415539754
 This one seems to have multiple colors. Would I have to email the seller to request a specific color? From what I've read on this forum, he seems to have a hard time with english. Also, cheaper than the Dasetn version.
  
 The lossless OFC extention cable: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w4004-4007597576.7.CW0gxF&id=38508455598
 OMG this seems amazing for the price.
  
 The KZ-IE7: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4002-78114760.48.aJIx3U&id=35312868387
 Same housing as the Senn IE7, curious about the sound. 
  
 And the KZ-Micro Ring: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w4004-4007625163.3.UBR4c3&id=36724528198
 Seems interesting, ergonomic, but more interested in the MX760 and the IE7.
  
 Anyway, if any of you have heard the IE7 or MX760, could you give your impressions on them? Also, I am interested in purchasing some of these KZ products, but I can't figure out how to purchase from Taobao. Could someone explain how to purchase from them? And do they combine shipping? Thanks in advance.


----------



## rontant

aerog1 said:


> Also, I am interested in purchasing some of these KZ products, but I can't figure out how to purchase from Taobao. Could someone explain how to purchase from them? And do they combine shipping? Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I used Chrome browser with automatic English translation turned on. It's funny to see google translates my "order" as " buy baby". This is my first time ordering directly from Taobao without going through a purchasing agent so I am not sure if I will ever get to see my purchase though but the charge to my credit card seems to go through and my Taobao showed that the seller has shipped my order complete with the airway bill number. So yeah, we shall see.


----------



## rontant

@Wokei, in another thread, I saw your purchase list includes KZ CKW 1000 & KZ CM9. Not that I am going to buy them but any chance we get to see your impressions on these two?  Also if it's not too personal, can I ask why you left out ED3?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> @Wokei, in another thread, I saw your purchase list includes KZ CKW 1000 & KZ CM9. Not that I am going to buy them but any chance we get to see your impressions on these two?  Also if it's not too personal, can I ask why you left out ED3?
> 
> Thanks in advance.




Me have ED3 too ....but with KZ ED2/Special Edition ( they are the same iem) ...its much better than ED3.

As for CM9 ...its one me fav ...because its vocally forward and it just tickle me fancy in the right way ......CKW1000 ...when me got them ...it was so so where the sound is very veiled ...sound very distant ....even after burn in ...but heads up from Charliemotta ..to scrap the black felt at the iem grill ...does open up the sound ...mind you imho these need amp to bring out the sound ...truth be told ..me have so many models of KZ ..haven't really got around to actually do a thorough listen to them....just have not gone in too deep analysing them ..thats all.

Imho ..me fav from KZ models are 5.8mm Micro Ring , CM9 , EDSE , GR and R3 ....too many iem ...too few hours ...syndrome of spending too much time in this thread ..and having good headfi brothers and sisters ...

Hope this helps for the time being ...


----------



## rontant

Outstanding, Wokei. Thank you very much!
  
  
 Quote:


wokei said:


> Me have ED3 too ....but with KZ ED2/Special Edition ( they are the same iem) ...its much better than ED3.


 
   
 I believe you. ED3 costs more and yet EDSE is better.  But... phew...I am glad I followed your recommendation exactly and didn't order ED3. 
  
 Quote:


wokei said:


> As for CM9 ...its one me fav ...because its vocally forward and it just tickle me fancy in the right way ......CKW1000 ...when me got them ...it was so so where the sound is very veiled ...sound very distant ....even after burn in ...but heads up from Charliemotta ..to scrap the black felt at the iem grill ...does open up the sound ...mind you imho these need amp to bring out the sound ...truth be told ..me have so many models of KZ ..haven't really got around to actually do a thorough listen to them....just have not gone in too deep analysing them ..thats all.


 
  
 If you mentioned CM9 in your recommendation, probably I would have bought it as well, but thanks for saving me some money.
  
  
 In the Taobao page, they did say it has to be burn for 24 hours though but I cannot recall if it is mentioned for CM9 or the other models.
  


wokei said:


> mind you imho these need amp to bring out the sound ...


 
  
 As to the need for amp, you are referring to CM9 and CKW1000 only, right? Not EDSE and GR? Anyway I don't think I want to get CM9. It's better for me to save some money just in case the Tribal Council (i.e you, Peter, Hisoundfi, etc ) later issue a "buy or die" edict on Sidy hybrid some of you guys are starting to talk about.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> If you mentioned CM9 in your recommendation, probably I would have bought it as well, but thanks for saving me some money.
> 
> 
> In the Taobao page, they did say it has to be burn for 24 hours though but I cannot recall if it is mentioned for CM9 or the other models.
> ...




CM9 ..yes ...vocally ..I like it very much ..no amp required ...

Amp required ...CKW1000 only so far imho ....EDSE and GR no amp ...

About the Tribal Council ( didn't know one exists or even if they do ) nah ....they are cool ..its not dictatorship ...no edict required ....no such things as buy or die ...honestly as far this thread as a going concern ...this is one thread where there is no talking down or ppl being defensive ....and this is how it should be ....fun in pursuit of this sick addiction ..buying gears that most of us know ...we already have lotsa gears ...but yet we still buy ...lol.....personally it should be a learning experience and enjoying the friendship ,camadrie and sharing a few laughs in between us fellow brothers and sisters in headfi.

Lastly its all about the love of music that brought us here in the first place ..


----------



## benandfaith

Anyone from Australia (or elsewhere) received their kz edse from aliexpress? From this store in particular ($9.80 one) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1987244299.html

I ordered 20 days ago and not yet arrived.


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> Anyone from Australia (or elsewhere) received their kz edse from aliexpress? From this store in particular ($9.80 one) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1987244299.html
> 
> I ordered 20 days ago and not yet arrived.




Mate ..no worry man ..chill 

Me KZ EDSE from that shop too and me know for a fact ..Charliemotta from Florida also received it ....


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> CM9 ..yes ...vocally ..I like it very much ..no amp required ...
> 
> Amp required ...CKW1000 only so far imho ....EDSE and GR no amp ...
> 
> ...


And going broke lol, you forgot that part... Lol


----------



## Charliemotta

wokei said:


> Mate ..no worry man ..chill
> 
> Me KZ EDSE from that shop too and me know for a fact ..@Charliemotta from Florida also received it ....


 
 I purchased 2 of them there with no problems. *♫ ♫ ♫*


----------



## Hisoundfi

hisoundfi said:


> And going broke lol, you forgot that part... Lol


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> As to the need for amp, you are referring to CM9 and CKW1000 only, right? Not EDSE and GR? Anyway I don't think I want to get CM9. It's better for me to save some money just in case the Tribal Council (i.e you, Peter, Hisoundfi, etc ) later issue a "buy or die" edict on Sidy hybrid some of you guys are starting to talk about.




This rontant post in Havi thread about dying for Havi .,feckin' hillarious 

For something as good as Havi, don't you think that sacrificing oneself (even to the extent of being made a mincemeat) is a commendable and honorable thing to do?




hisoundfi said:


> And going broke lol, you forgot that part... Lol




We have a live one here ....well done Rontant ....u r officially sick ....lol


----------



## benandfaith

Wokei & Charliemotta : thanks for the reassurance 
How long did it take to reach you?


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> Wokei & Charliemotta : thanks for the reassurance
> How long did it take to reach you?




There are time ...the bull win ( less than 30 days ) and sometimes the matador win ( less than 15 days) ....

So no worry mate ...worth the wait for 9.80$ ...even if its a bit longer in delivery time ....cheaper than a meal out in town ..lol


----------



## Charliemotta

benandfaith said:


> @Wokei & @Charliemotta : thanks for the reassurance
> How long did it take to reach you?


 
 Close to 3 weeks...long time to wait..* ♫♫*


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant Welcome to the club buddy, let me make you something to eat...


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> @rontant Welcome to the club buddy, let me make you something to eat...


 
 Gee... thanks buddy. I am deeply touched.... totally speechless with.....your... lll... l... aptop... I mean your kindness and wonderful meals.
  
  
  
  


wokei said:


> We have a live one here ....well done @Rontant ....u r officially sick ....lol


 
  
 Thank you very much Wokei. Your acknowledgement means a lot to me.
  
 Here is a photo of me, an IEM shopaholic wannabe.


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> Close to 3 weeks...long time to wait..* ♫♫*






Nice one there ...Team Zenith ...nice avatar ....you da bomb


----------



## Wokei

Met up with a fellow headfier SyedZ2ez4 this afternoon and had a blast trying out the iems we brought to play with .....

He was very impressed with KZ LP2 , R3 and CM9 ....while he had some impressive gears ATH CKR9 , UE900 and Ostry Gold KC06 .....he was impressed with how well the KZ performed ..tested them with me Topping NX1 and Little Bear B-2 amp......

Man ..it was a blast testing out the CKR9 and UE900 but the way too expensive for me taste ...lol ...but they are preeeetttty feckin' good ......

Thanks man ..it was a good day ...cheers mate.


----------



## Gandroid

benandfaith said:


> Anyone from Australia (or elsewhere) received their kz edse from aliexpress? From this store in particular ($9.80 one) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1987244299.html
> 
> I ordered 20 days ago and not yet arrived.


 
 I ordered the same shop on Aug 9th and delivered on Aug 20th to the SF, US.
  
 And KZ EDSE is awesome for <$10. Build quality and sound quality are top notch.


----------



## solcrystal

benandfaith said:


> Anyone from Australia (or elsewhere) received their kz edse from aliexpress? From this store in particular ($9.80 one) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1987244299.html
> 
> I ordered 20 days ago and not yet arrived.


 
   
 Quote:


gandroid said:


> I ordered the same shop on Aug 9th and delivered on Aug 20th to the SF, US.
> 
> And KZ EDSE is awesome for <$10. Build quality and sound quality are top notch.


 
  
 Mine were shipped from that shop on the 12th and arrived on the 22nd (norcal here, too)
  
 I wonder if the delays are due to the frequency of cargo ships/planes that go between countries.  I would assume the United States would have more things going back/forth from China because of how much more trading goes on between the countries.


----------



## benandfaith

Gandroid&solcrystal. Thanks for your responses. I'm hoping that it's just a case of longer delivery time to Australia. 

A bit of a joke that they claim delivery time to be between 4-6 days...


----------



## dflock

Ive been stalking this thread for a bit and got the EDSE and i am very impressed. I am curious about the LP/LP2. Can some one chime in on sound quality? There is a foldable vs non-foldable? For $50 are there better options?

Thanks


----------



## bhazard

dflock said:


> Ive been stalking this thread for a bit and got the EDSE and i am very impressed. I am curious about the LP/LP2. Can some one chime in on sound quality? There is a foldable vs non-foldable? For $50 are there better options?
> 
> Thanks


 
 I'm more of a fan of the LP over the LP2. The mids are a little weird on the LP2, where they are nice and balanced on the LP1.
  
 Sound quality is very, very good on the LP1. It reminds me of the Takstar Pro 80, which is another stellar $50ish headphone.


----------



## dflock

bhazard said:


> I'm more of a fan of the LP over the LP2. The mids are a little weird on the LP2, where they are nice and balanced on the LP1.
> 
> Sound quality is very, very good on the LP1. It reminds me of the Takstar Pro 80, which is another stellar $50ish headphone.




Thanks. Build quality is good? Ive had vmoda m-80 which was good but sold because of fit issues (over ear fit better than on ear usually). I may just bite and give them a try. Bhazard, if you are interested in selling your LP, pm me.


----------



## krisp

This is my first post, so, Hello to everyone!
 I want to buy a cheap IEM with decent SQ and KZ seem to fit my expectations.I currently listen to diferrent music genres:rock, hip-hop, dupstep, house, some jazz and a little bit of classical.Which of this IEMs is better?:
 -KZ EDSE
 -KZ Micro Ring
 -KZ R3
 -KZ GR
 Also, which of this models are more durable and comfortable(i want to use them on my running sessions)?
 Thank you for your help!


----------



## Charliemotta

krisp said:


> This is my first post, so, Hello to everyone!
> I want to buy a cheap IEM with decent SQ and KZ seem to fit my expectations.I currently listen to diferrent music genres:rock, hip-hop, dupstep, house, some jazz and a little bit of classical.Which of this IEMs is better?:
> -KZ EDSE
> -KZ Micro Ring
> ...


 
 Actually they are all great choices, but if I was to pick 1 for starters I'd get the KZ EDSE.   ♫♫♫


----------



## Wokei

krisp said:


> This is my first post, so, Hello to everyone!
> 
> I want to buy a cheap IEM with decent SQ and KZ seem to fit my expectations.I currently listen to diferrent music genres:rock, hip-hop, dupstep, house, some jazz and a little bit of classical.Which of this IEMs is better?:
> 
> ...




Agree with Massa Charlie ....but if you want something for running ...skip GR ...it is good with 2 different type nozzle tube for super bass and another for balanced sound .....but damm...they are heavy ..they are cooper color ...and they are cooper ..bloody heavy..lol


----------



## krisp

Thanks for the answers!
 I think i read somewhere in this topic that the GR were heavy, but i didn't imagine that those were so heavy!So the other 3 remain viable options.From what i read the KZ EDSE is the more talk about, probably i would buy them.
 Another thing:EDSE are good out-of-the-box or need to be burn in?


----------



## Wokei

krisp said:


> Thanks for the answers!
> I think i read somewhere in this topic that the GR were heavy, but i didn't imagine that those were so heavy!So the other 3 remain viable options.From what i read the KZ EDSE is the more talk about, probably i would buy them.
> Another thing:EDSE are good out-of-the-box or need to be burn in?




EDSE is good outta box ....actually all those you mentioned in me book are good choices from KZ range ....for the price ...good built quality ...kick ass cable ....me personal fav is R3 ..juz sayin ...lol ...just dont set your expectation too high .....ymmv ...


----------



## benandfaith

Received and an enjoying fun sound of edse. V-shaped but bass>treble. Bass digs quite deep, but bass quality is just average perhaps even slightly below (a bit muddy especially mid bass). Mid bass bleeds into mids somewhat, but mids still sound forward enough. Treble is quite nice - clear, present/neither laidback not forward, non-sibilant. Soundstage on the narrow side of average. Pretty good clarity. 

Anyway that's my first go at a 'review' after being in this hobby for about 6 months (full sized cans and iems). Hope it's ok! 

Anyway that's my impressions after 3 hours of post-rock, R&B and pop. 

Very happy for $9.8


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> Received and an enjoying fun sound of edse. V-shaped but bass>treble. Bass digs quite deep, but bass quality is just average perhaps even slightly below (a bit muddy especially mid bass). Mid bass bleeds into mids somewhat, but mids still sound forward enough. Treble is quite nice - clear, present/neither laidback not forward, non-sibilant. Soundstage on the narrow side of average. Pretty good clarity.
> 
> Anyway that's my first go at a 'review' after being in this hobby for about months (full sized cans and iems). Hope it's ok!
> 
> ...




It's a deal..it's a steal for that price..my friend....better than some 50$ish brand item..give it some burn time...the bass gets better


----------



## benandfaith

wokei said:


> It's a deal..it's a steal for that price..my friend....better than some 50$ish brand item..give it some burn time...the bass gets better




Glad to hear bass gets better! Looking forward to it!


----------



## Hisoundfi

The KZ rx came in yesterday. It's a very sharp looking pair of iems (I got the white version). It's pretty good on a whole. Solid built housings an angled plug, and strain reliefs and y splitter look solid. It comes with 3 pairs of frosted transparent tips (none of which sealed my ears). 

I did some tip rolling and got a seal with my lunashops red/black tips. Driver flex can become an issue with them so be careful inserting them to avoid this. Tip selection plays a part in this also. 

The KZ rx has a very warm sound with plenty of bass that is of decent/mediocre quality. It's the type of bass that makes hip hop sound awesome, but leaves a little bit to be desired with rock music. There's considerable mid bass bleed that puts too much weight on male vocals. It's not the tightest bass, but is formidable and robust for the right genre of music. It's like a strong cup of coffee bought of the store shelf; When you know that the coffee shop is down the street selling a better cup of Joe for a few bucks more it's just not the same, but it works.

Mids are there, but don't carry very much clarity. It's borderline stuffy and congested sounding with rock music. It's a lot better suited for hip hop and edm. There's not a lot to say here besides that you won't be completely disappointed, but at the same time don't expect to be blown away.

Treble is slightly rolled off at the end of the sound spectrum, and doesn't have much clarity. One of the plus side of its signature is that it's treble isn't ever piercing or sibilant. Again, this doesn't work the best for rock, but is good for hip hop and edm. 

Sound stage is not the widest. Separation is average for iems in the $15-$30 range. 

I would say that aren't good for anyone who listens to a majority of rock music, as it makes this genre sound muffled, congested, and bass comes across bloated and too heavy. 

But just the opposite these sound phenomenal for hip hop and edm. It's tuned to give you hours of fatigue free, head bobbing enjoyment for this genre. 

Is it worth the $7 usd I paidfor them? ABSOLUTELY! With the right music it's a fun listen. With so many giant killer budget iems, this one might lurk in their shadows, and that's understandable. BUT, if you are in the market a booming bass sound for the price of a value meal from McDonald's, look no further.


----------



## Wokei

Spot on ...man ..what more can one ask for 7$ ...hahahhaa.... easily worth about 20 -30 $ or slightly more imho ...good fun iem to chuck in the gym bag ...


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Spot on ...man ..what more can one ask for 7$ ...hahahhaa.... easily worth about 20 -30 $ or slightly more imho ...good fun iem to chuck in the gym bag ...


Agreed. 

By the way, excellent review on the Havi! It was a joy to read! 

And I have to give it to you sir, you know your KZ products! My Kz-gr came in also and I'm very impressed! Thanks for recommending them! 

I really like how both filters give them equally impressive sound. It's like owning two iems for the price of one. 

I had the sidy dm2 and mr1 which had the same changeable filter concept. Problem with both of them was that the black filters made them WAY too bassy and killed the rest of the sound. Only the red filters worked. With the GR, I still get very clear and crisp sound with the black filters. 

Looking forward to the micro ring now.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Agreed.
> 
> By the way, excellent review on the Havi! It was a joy to read!
> 
> ...




Damm ...those GR are heavy ....though ....lol....two in one ...its a deal ..its a steal ..its KZ ...its really a good starter kit for entry into this hobby ....value for money ....

Micro ring ...me think you like ....its like SM E30 ....balanced sound sig across the board ....very good for long listening session ....you wont believe how small they are ....they dont seem much ...but the sound is " amazeballs" for lack of better choice of words ....once in ...its feel like nuthin .....guaranteed this one ...no flex ...pure comfy factor ...unless you have ears like Bilbao Baggins ...juz jokin ....


----------



## Wokei

rontant me guess you will like KZ GR ....if you be likey Piston ...imho me think GR will be slightly better from me following Piston thread ...what more ..you will get one iem but two sound sig ....and though it may not look as sleeky as Piston but me think the build quality of GR is weeeeee better ..and kick ass cable ....hope you did order them ...

Cheers


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> @rontant me guess you will like KZ GR ....if you be likey Piston ...imho me think GR will be slightly better from me following Piston thread ...what more ..you will get one iem but two sound sig ....and though it may not look as sleeky as Piston but me think the build quality of GR is weeeeee better ..and kick ass cable ....hope you did order them ...
> 
> Cheers


 
  
  
  
 Yes, yes, yes, I bought GR because it looks like a piece of medieval artifact, like a loose nut from female chastity belt, how can I not like it?   By the way, I read that Piston is actually manufactured by Dunu, so I don't think the build quality is any worse than KZ. Anyway we shall see when I finally get a chance to really touch my GR.
  
 (Me... looking at my watch.... did a bit of arithmetic in my head).  Hey... it's almost 1am. n Wokeiland... and you are still awake!! Caffeine overdosed?


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> Yes, yes, yes, I bought GR because it looks like a piece of medieval artifact, like a loose nut from female chastity belt, how can I not like it?   By the way, I read that Piston is actually manufactured by Dunu, so I don't think the build quality is any worse than KZ. Anyway we shall see when I finally get a chance to really touch my GR.
> 
> (Me... looking at my watch.... did a bit of arithmetic in my head).  Hey... it's almost 1am.in Wokeiland... and you are still awake!!




Spot on ...very cheeky ....you damm fool ....the black and red tube nozzle do look like nuts ....muahahahahaha ....so for those owner of GR ...." nutter" unite ......

Arithmetic ....not me strong point ...nuthin much is me strong point ...so me am happy ....me guess ....me KZ resident fan boi ......the other is Charliemotta


----------



## Charliemotta

wokei said:


> Spot on ...very cheeky ....you damm fool ....the black and red tube nozzle do look like nuts ....muahahahahaha ....so for those owner of GR ...." nutter" unite ......
> 
> Arithmetic ....not me strong point ...nuthin much is me strong point ...so me am happy ....me guess ....me KZ resident fan boi ......the other is @Charliemotta


 
 You can't go to bed until I do...you have to stay awake


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> You can't go to bed until I do...you have to stay awake




Yes...Massa Wizz...your wish is granted...where have you been...


----------



## Hisoundfi

Kz-gr is a winner. It's two iems in one. I tried deciding on which filter I liked better. Truth be told, they both bring something different to the table. 

I'm serious when I say this; it's like owning two of the most popular Asian iems at once. The red filter sounds a lot like the kc06, and the black filter sounds like the xiaomi piston 2.0. Don't believe me? Buy them and a-b comparison. Hearing is believing. The GR is a kick a** iem and worth far more than what I paid for them. If I had to put a price on them I would put it around the $85 range. I have to review these things, they are a hidden gem. 

Charliemotta and Wokei know their stuff. These KZ iems have models that are up there with the best of the budget kings, and at a fraction of the price. 

Head fi over and out


----------



## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> Kz-gr is a winner. It's two iems in one. I tried deciding on which filter I liked better. Truth be told, they both bring something different to the table.
> 
> I'm serious when I say this; it's like owning two of the most popular Asian iems at once. The red filter sounds a lot like the kc06, and the black filter sounds like the xiaomi piston 2.0. Don't believe me? Buy them and a-b comparison. Hearing is believing. The GR is a kick a** iem and worth far more than what I paid for them. If I had to put a price on them I would put it around the $85 range. I have to review these things, they are a hidden gem.
> 
> ...


 
 Yup, liked it right out of the box. The red filter suits me best for most of my music. Then there is the black which has a little more bass. A great an inexpensive iem..   *♫♫♫*


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> Yup, liked it right out of the box. The red filter suits me best for most of my music. Then there is the black which has a little more bass. A great an inexpensive iem..   *♫♫♫*


I'm jamming that new Pharrell album with the black filter. It's amazeballs


----------



## Wokei

Both me and Charliemotta have almost most KZ MODELS ..except the few here and there ....we both like GR very muchie ....they sure desreve much luv ....they do not have the kind of exclusivity of T1E or Havi ...but some models do deserve more attention for a fraction of price some higher price iem ....coupled with that ...most of their iem price range KZ A1 ( awsesome bass monster) for USD3.90 to less than 30 USD ...soild built quality and kick ass cable ...me only gripe is most KZ model dont come with cable cinch and hard case ...dont mind paying wee bit more for both feature ...imo


----------



## Wokei

KZ GR + ZIP CLIP + LITTLE BEAR AMP B-2



update ....me Little Bear B-2 is now Goldie Bear B-2


----------



## Hisoundfi

Guys, get your hands on the soundmagic a10 amp if you can get it for less than $40. it's quickly become my favorite amp for iems. 75 microwatts and awesome extension and clarity. Probably the best synergy with iems of anything amp I have. I like it much better than the nx1 (which is still very good). Has a bass boost option. Definitely worth getting. These kz-gr are banging out beautiful music right now with this thing.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Guys, get your hands on the soundmagic a10 amp if you can get it for less than $40. it's quickly become my favorite amp for iems. 75 microwatts and awesome extension and clarity. Probably the best synergy with iems of anything amp I have. I like it much better than the nx1 (which is still very good). Has a bass boost option. Definitely worth getting. These kz-gr are banging out beautiful music right now with this thing.




Dude...you be gushing over GR like you did with T1E.....lol


----------



## Hisoundfi




----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Dude...you be gushing over GR like you did with T1E.....lol


Not quite. The t1e is better, but this GR isn't far off. Wait till you hear the quality of the t1e bass. Best bass I've ever heard in an iem, and only $35.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Not quite. The t1e is better, but this GR isn't far off. Wait till you hear the quality of the t1e bass. Best bass I've ever heard in an iem, and only $35.




Not gonna argue with you...Me believe you...you know that....just realized today it's a public holiday.....so me T1E will only be here on Friday....


----------



## Wokei

Listening to Justin and Miley now with GR ......they are the Mozart of these generations ...


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


>


 
  
 So which of this girl is GR and which is T1E? And where is EDSE?


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> So which of this girl is GR and which is T1E? And where is EDSE?




That one is GR....T1E not here yet...

This is EDSE....enjoy


----------



## Shawn71

So GR is bit shy and EDSE is bit open and airy?


----------



## Wokei

shawn71 said:


> So GR is bit shy and EDSE is bit open and airy?




Yup....me be hoping TTPOD T1E will be as whatHisoundfi ....best bass like this


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> That one is GR....T1E not here yet...
> 
> This is EDSE....enjoy


 
   
 Quote:


hisoundfi said:


> I'm taking my family to renaissance fair today, and debating on what iem looks like it could have come from the renaissance. I was thinking the kz edse lol.
> 
> Anyone else have suggestions?


 
@Wokei, 
  
 oh I see, now I can see why @Hisoundfi  got so enamored with Edse even portraying her as something that could have come from the Renaissance.  Profound.... truly profound.


----------



## rontant

shawn71 said:


> So GR is bit shy and EDSE is bit open and airy?


 
  
 I like your observation @Shawn71.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## benandfaith

Would someone care to give a more detailed comparison between edse and gr? Haha (actually I'm serious... Would love to know which to buy for a friend - he's got some $80 sennheiser iem and I want to wow him with cheap and wonderful China $10 iem)


----------



## Shawn71

wokei said:


> Yup....me be hoping TTPOD T1E will be as whatHisoundfi ....best bass like this




yeah just like how the Double bass sounds....


----------



## Shawn71

rontant said:


> I like your observation @Shawn71.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> Would someone care to give a more detailed comparison between edse and gr? Haha (actually I'm serious... Would love to know which to buy for a friend - he's got some $80 sennheiser iem and I want to wow him with cheap and wonderful China $10 iem)





benandfaith said:


> Would someone care to give a more detailed comparison between edse and gr? Haha (actually I'm serious... Would love to know which to buy for a friend - he's got some $80 sennheiser iem and I want to wow him with cheap and wonderful China $10 iem)




Me think you already have EDSE if me not mistaken .....few posts up ...Hisoundfi did give a very consice spot on impression on GR ...

Mate ....for the price of GR which is technically one iem with two sound sig ...if use black nozzle ..its a bass monster ..V type sound sig with more than decent clarity but if use red nozzle ....very balanced sound ...clarity and high sound much better with red nozzle ....its a no brainer ...

You can get GR ...and when they come ..decide which is better to be given away as gift ...or buy one for yourself ....more to gain and if you really ...really dont like them ..gift them away ..

Cheers mate.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> I like your observation @Shawn71.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary







shawn71 said:


> yeah just like how the Double bass sounds....




Cant believe both of you ....behave yourself ....

You want more ...kekekekeeeeee!


----------



## Wokei

KZ EDSE ...rocks ...been listening to Annie Lennox's Live in Central Park ......very good clarity , detail and high with good extension with no sibblant .....also very good for all genre ....

Its a must have iem ....from KZ


----------



## benandfaith

wokei said:


> Me think you already have EDSE if me not mistaken .....few posts up ...Hisoundfi did give a very consice spot on impression on GR ...
> 
> Mate ....for the price of GR which is technically one iem with two sound sig ...if use black nozzle ..its a bass monster ..V type sound sig with more than decent clarity but if use red nozzle ....very balanced sound ...clarity and high sound much better with red nozzle ....its a no brainer ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm trying to avoid getting anymore IEMs - dangerous business this is! Haha. 
  
 I do like the EDSE and the impressions here are favourable also, so I'll just get them to give away.
  
 After a few months I might give the GRs a go, but for now, need to resist temptation. My Takstar Pro 80 and Audio Technica ATH-AD900x and Havi B3 Pro 1 and Penon IEM and EDSE are all calling out for attention... along with my hand made bookshelf speakers and twin 10-inch subwoofers set up in my lounge/media room... need to resist!


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> I'm trying to avoid getting anymore IEMs - dangerous business this is! Haha.
> 
> I do like the EDSE and the impressions here are favourable also, so I'll just get them to give away.
> 
> After a few months I might give the GRs a go, but for now, need to resist temptation. My Takstar Pro 80 and Audio Technica ATH-AD900x and Havi B3 Pro 1 and Penon IEM and EDSE are all calling out for attention... along with my hand made bookshelf speakers and twin 10-inch subwoofers set up in my lounge/media room... need to resist!




I know right ..but I'm sick dude ..lol....


----------



## bhazard

benandfaith said:


> I'm trying to avoid getting anymore IEMs - dangerous business this is! Haha.
> 
> I do like the EDSE and the impressions here are favourable also, so I'll just get them to give away.
> 
> After a few months I might give the GRs a go, but for now, need to resist temptation. My Takstar Pro 80 and Audio Technica ATH-AD900x and Havi B3 Pro 1 and Penon IEM and EDSE are all calling out for attention... along with my hand made bookshelf speakers and twin 10-inch subwoofers set up in my lounge/media room... need to resist!


 
 Which speaker kit did you use? I have a custom from diysoundgroup I put together (with lots of help).
  
 Not to say the IEM world doesn't kick ass, but those DIY speakers spank every headphone/iem ever made, as well as the majority of commercial speakers.


----------



## SilverEars

Wokei what is the iem on your sig?  It looks like it has vents like the ie800s.


----------



## Wokei

It's TTPOD T1E ..they do look like IE800...check out the thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/728860/ttpod-t1-e-impressions-thread/0_100


----------



## benandfaith

bhazard said:


> Which speaker kit did you use? I have a custom from diysoundgroup I put together (with lots of help).
> 
> Not to say the IEM world doesn't kick ass, but those DIY speakers spank every headphone/iem ever made, as well as the majority of commercial speakers.


 
 I used the ones from adelaide speakers - a one man show who gets rave reviews in Australia (http://www.adelaidespeakers.com/firesprite-bookshelf-speakers.html) - I got the Firesprite 602PV but changed the tweeter to a better one (SB Acoustics).
  
 For sure DIY speakers spank any IEM and most full-sized cans... but when you're lying in bed next to sleeping wife or going for a walk to get some exercise and clear the mind... well, hello IEM! Hello can!
  
 I actually have the DIY speakers as a front 3 for my home theatre and 4 other KEF satellite speakers along with my 2 subs for a 7.2 system mainly for movies. For music, I switch to stereo and just use the 2 bookshelves.
  
 It was great fun learning how to use a router to cut the holes and putting the speaker box together. I got some AV material paint to paint the speaker box so it has texture like those big guitar amps. Also hard as rock! I also made some custom speaker stands.
  
 What kind of help did you need for your build? I pretty much had no experience with wood before I did this project, but I learnt heaps doing it (and spent heaps of time!). 
  
 Here's a pic before painting and installing the woofers and tweeters
 .
  
 Anyway, sorry got a bit excited there... back to KZ discussion!
  
 Hope they come up with even more budget kings!


----------



## benandfaith

silverears said:


>


 
 From what I've read, they look like vents, but they aren't...


----------



## SilverEars

benandfaith said:


> From what I've read, they look like vents, but they aren't...


 






  That's not nice, why fool us with fake vents?  I was thinking they are dynamic so they would have vents given they have good amount of low end.  The ie800 uses vents for bass boost and treble smoothing.


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> KZ EDSE ...rocks ...been listening to Annie Lennox's Live in Central Park ......very good clarity , detail and high with good extension with no sibblant .....also very good for all genre ....
> 
> Its a must have iem ....from KZ


 
 Sounds good, my pair is at customs clearence now


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> Sounds good, my pair is at customs clearence now




KZ EDSE ...gets Wokei 5 Stars Approval for best price to ratio performance ....lol


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> KZ EDSE ...gets Wokei 5 Stars Approval for best price to ratio performance ....lol


 
 ....and my pair reached the post office. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow to pick it up though


----------



## rontant

I really envy you guys.


----------



## rontant

@Wokei Any particular reason you don't get KZ-C3 and KZ 2013?


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> @Wokei
> Any particular reason you don't get KZ-C3 and KZ 2013?




KZ 2013...is actually CM9 which I already have...me did recommend this to you via pm...me think

C3...me no have...the...me have so many KZ models...all burnt in but not really have the time to actually give them serious listen.....with them coming in...me follow Peter's method...steady stream of incoming item...end the day...Not enuf time really...

Some me fav are R3, CM9, GR, EDSE, Micro Ring ...lol


----------



## rontant

I am somehow terrified with Micro Ring.  It looks sharp like a nail I am afraid if I accidentally slam my head on the bed, the micro ring might get shot through/ exit the other ear. No, sorry, no micro ring for me. 
  
 Yes, you did tell me about CM9 but not in your initial recommendation though.


----------



## Wokei

Micro Ring is one of the most comfy model in their range....really small and no sharp end....lol...if they be doin what you said...first fatality from iem....Muahahahahahaha

Too many to recommend....


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Waiting for postman delivery my kz-a1


----------



## peter123

rafaelroxalot said:


> Waiting for postman delivery my kz-a1


 
 Finally, congratulations!
 I've got my KZ EDSE today


----------



## Hisoundfi

has anyone tried the kz anv, or kz cm9?

Impressions? 

These seem to be kz's flagship at a whopping $20-$30


----------



## peter123

@Wokei master of KZ 

Does the bass settle on the EDSE's or does it stay this boomy?

It's a shame really since I totally enjoy everything else about them. Some other company could learn quite a bit about build quality and cables here.

Less than $10 is just redicioulus for them.....


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> has anyone tried the kz anv, or kz cm9?
> 
> Impressions?
> 
> These seem to be kz's flagship at a whopping $20-$30




KZ CM9 is balanced sound with vocally forward imho ...very nice for female vocal ...I like them very much ...




peter123 said:


> @Wokei master of KZ
> 
> Does the bass settle on the EDSE's or does it stay this boomy?
> 
> ...




Yes ..i think it does wee bit .....101 on cost quality


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> KZ CM9 is balanced sound with vocally forward imho ...very nice for female vocal ...I like them very much ...
> Yes ..i think it does wee bit .....101 on cost quality




Thanks, yes they're truly amazing value. I mean I really really like the rest of how they sound but that bass annoys me, disturbs to much....let's hope is tightens up a bit.

I'm pretty sure I've found my new work out IEM's though


----------



## benandfaith

peter123 said:


> @Wokei master of KZ
> 
> Does the bass settle on the EDSE's or does it stay this boomy?
> 
> ...




Sorry I'm not master wokei (me not worthy!) but... 

After 10+ hours bass boom has settled quite nicely. It's still there at times but I do feel like there's noticeable improvement. 

Ridiculously good for $10. A fair bit better than the penon iem imho...


----------



## peter123

benandfaith said:


> Sorry I'm not master wokei (me not worthy!) but...
> 
> After 10+ hours bass boom has settled quite nicely. It's still there at times but I do feel like there's noticeable improvement.
> 
> Ridiculously good for $10. A fair bit better than the penon iem imho...




Sounds great, than you!


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> Thanks, yes they're truly amazing value. I mean I really really like the rest of how they sound but that bass annoys me, disturbs to much....let's hope is tightens up a bit.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I've found my new work out IEM's though


The bass on these will come down and be more of a sub bass grumble type, and mids will come more forward with burn in


----------



## rafaelroxalot

peter123 said:


> Finally, congratulations!
> I've got my KZ EDSE today


 thanks, mine arrived too kz-a1


----------



## peter123

rafaelroxalot said:


> thanks, mine arrived too kz-a1




Excellent, enjoy!



hisoundfi said:


> The bass on these will come down and be more of a sub bass grumble type, and mids will come more forward with burn in




Ah, you just know what I want to hear


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> Excellent, enjoy!
> Ah, you just know what I want to hear




KZ EDSE ...only used for two days ...after that it went into the drawer ....then Havi came and yesterday T1e ....really I m feeling like a hoarder now ....just got another 5 KZ still in the burn pit .....not listened yet ..muahahhahaaa.

Feels like me cheating on me KZ A1 .remember that ....


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Kz-A1


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Kz-a1 in ear lol


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> Kz-a1 in ear lol




Give them some burn in ...the bass will become more tight and tame the high a bit ...I fiind them peaky outta box ...lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

Look what came in the mail today friends! Already did some tip rolling. Idk what KZ was smoking when they made the hozzles on the micro ring that wide. Anyways, found some dual flanges that work. They sound excellent. 

Hehe sennheiser double flanges work perfect on the r3.

Right out of the box the sound is better on the micro ring. Build quality goes to the r3. Wood housings and removable cable for $16 usd? Crazy! 

I'm going to burn these babies for a bit. Impressions later.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Look what came in the mail today friends! Already did some tip rolling. Idk what KZ was smoking when they made the hozzles on the micro ring that wide. Anyways, found some dual flanges that work. They sound excellent.
> 
> Hehe sennheiser double flanges work perfect on the r3.
> 
> ...




Imho ...micro ring don't change with burn in ....they do sound really good ..don't they ....they remind me of SM E30 with more upfront presentation ....

R3 need burn in ..take away the grittiness in the high ...but its soundstage is excellent for me ( not HAVI level ..ahem ) but the vocal on these is crazy .....amen to the built quality ...its crazy ..how they do it 

Happy for you bro ....still rockin me T1E ...


----------



## bhazard

Got the R95 today. Too muddy. Not a fan.


----------



## robervaul

Something about this?
*KZ-ES*
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ES-copper-forging-professional-grade-fever-and-heavy-bass-music-WIRE-call-ear-headphones-earphones/615477_2034055286.html


----------



## Hisoundfi

Got the kz-es yesterday, seller responded stating he didn't have the microphone cable. The cable looks like the same awesome material as the kzedse.


----------



## Charliemotta

I wonder if the ES  is new. I don't recall seeing it before..♫  ♫


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> I wonder if the ES  is new. I don't recall seeing it before..♫  ♫


 
 They look new ....KZ Godfather ...are you diving in on this ?


----------



## Charliemotta

That would be a yes for ES....when is your amp coming??   ♫♫


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> That would be a yes for ES....when is your amp coming??   ♫♫


 
 Me amp is already here ....LOL


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Imho ...micro ring don't change with burn in ....they do sound really good ..don't they ....they remind me of SM E30 with more upfront presentation ....
> 
> R3 need burn in ..take away the grittiness in the high ...but its soundstage is excellent for me ( not HAVI level ..ahem ) but the vocal on these is crazy .....amen to the built quality ...its crazy ..how they do it
> 
> Happy for you bro ....still rockin me T1E ...


Ya, micro ring sounds very good. It is a very complete and balanced sound. I will say though, it's not a very sturdy build on them, and getting a good seal has been a PITA.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Ya, micro ring sounds very good. It is a very complete and balanced sound. I will say though, it's not a very sturdy build on them, and getting a good seal has been a PITA.




Good to hear you liking them ....agreed with the seal ....PITA......me using wide bore tips from me Awei spare tip...they seem to do the trick ..but inserting them into the bigger than usual nozzle is another PITA ...but for the price ...well worth the effort ...right ?


----------



## Hisoundfi

I almost feel guilty having a iem with the build quality and sound like the r3 for only $16 dollars. I feel like I stole it. 

Ya, bass is slightly bloated, but works well with the rest of the sound. The mids are fabulous. Treble is present, but takes a back seat to the rest of the spectrum. 

I showed them to a buddy, and had him give these a listen. He asked me how much I paid for something like these and I told him to guess. His response... 

"I dunno, like $150?"


MUAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I almost feel guilty having a iem with the build quality and sound like the r3 for only $16 dollars. I feel like I stole it.
> 
> Ya, bass is slightly bloated, but works well with the rest of the sound. The mids are fabulous. Treble is present, but takes a back seat to the rest of the spectrum.
> 
> ...




You gotta burn them ...though not as many hours as mochill would like ...the bass will tighten up ....but me like the vocal on these ....imo ...treble is just right ....though me might disagree ...me would still buy a cone of ice cream for you ......muahahahahaha.


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> You gotta burn them ...though not as many hours as mochill would like ...the bass will tighten up ....but me like the vocal on these ....imo ...treble is just right ....though me might disagree ...me would still buy a cone of ice cream for you ......muahahahahaha.


 
Almost done, these things are going to sound amazeballs...


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> Good to hear you liking them ....agreed with the seal ....PITA......me using wide bore tips from me Awei spare tip...they seem to do the trick ..but inserting them into the bigger than usual nozzle is another PITA ...but for the price ...well worth the effort ...right ?




I think they're identical to the ath-ckn70 in form and the Philips she3580 works great for them.


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> I think they're identical to the ath-ckn70 in form and the Philips she3580 works great for them.




They don't...the nozzle is the almost the same as the body of the iem...no ****...


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> They don't...the nozzle is the almost the same as the body of the iem...no ****...




Ok then they only look the same as the ckn70's.


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> Ok then they only look the same as the ckn70's.




No worry mate...you getting one to try? Lol...


----------



## nismo88

After reading the whole thread here I bought edse and kz-gr... and got the iem poison.... sharing a good deal for edse as my 1st post....  they have limited quantities left and for 22 hours more only...  Hope this helps...
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED2-professional-in-ear-headphones-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-headphones/2019520112.html


----------



## Wokei

nismo88 said:


> After reading the whole thread here I bought edse and kz-gr... and got the iem poison.... sharing a good deal for edse as my 1st post....  they have limited quantities left and for 22 hours more only...  Hope this helps...
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED2-professional-in-ear-headphones-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-headphones/2019520112.html




That is a good deal ..me buy most of me KZ from that store ..cheers


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> Ok then they only look the same as the ckn70's.




Pic of Micro Ring...infact the front tip where the silicone tip goes in is slightly bigger than the back part of the iem


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> Pic of Micro Ring...infact the front tip where the silicone tip goes in is slightly bigger than the back part of the iem


 
 Hm, I must have confused them wiht another model


----------



## solcrystal

nismo88 said:


> After reading the whole thread here I bought edse and kz-gr... and got the iem poison.... sharing a good deal for edse as my 1st post....  they have limited quantities left and for 22 hours more only...  Hope this helps...
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED2-professional-in-ear-headphones-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-headphones/2019520112.html


 
  
 Does the store have any other good deals for other KZ models?  I'm not well-versed with knowing pricing, and I try not to always believe the 'sale' pricing sellers advertise.


----------



## Wokei

The R3 and GR model are good buy from the store link above...

Cheers


----------



## nismo88

I only know the kz-ed2 is good price.. Thks Wokei


----------



## Wokei

nismo88 said:


> I only know the kz-ed2 is good price.. Thks Wokei




Sure thing ....you should try the R3 too...way cheaper when i got them ...me paid more ....lol


----------



## nismo88

Lol.. Couldn't resist n got the R3 too.. Big thanks to Wokei..


----------



## Wokei

Haha....me hope you enjoy them....vocally they shine for me...


----------



## Hisoundfi

My r3 is a bass Cannon. Maybe it's the sennheiser dual flange tips. It's basshead sounding


----------



## Wokei

Dude...they are two version...the one I bought is the linear version and another version is bass version..though the linear version do have solid bass but the mid and vocal are more forward...


----------



## Hisoundfi

I ordered the linear. Maybe the seller sent the wrong one? I will say, burn-in and this new cable has improved the sound over the last 24 hours. 

Burn baby burn!


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I ordered the linear. Maybe the seller sent the wrong one? I will say, burn-in and this new cable has improved the sound over the last 24 hours.
> 
> Burn baby burn!




Look like you are happy with it...good for you...they do need to be burn...500 hrs like mochill recommended..lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Look like you are happy with it...good for you...they do need to be burn...500 hrs like mochill recommended..lol


Honestly, I'm EXTREMELY happy with it, I just wouldn't associate the word "linear" with it. "HIFI" yes, but "linear" no way.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Honestly, I'm EXTREMELY happy with it, I just wouldn't associate the word "linear" with it. "HIFI" yes, but "linear" no way.




The jury is out ...linear or bass version .....? What matters is you EXTREMELY happy ..right ....its a no brainer for the price paid ..excellent built quality and detachable cable ...fyi ..the cable can be used with Moxpad X3 too...juz sayin


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> The jury is out ...linear or bass version .....? What matters is you EXTREMELY happy ..right ....its a no brainer for the price paid ..excellent built quality and detachable cable ...fyi ..the cable can be used with Moxpad X3 too...juz sayin


Agreed friend, and thanks for the tip with the moxpad cable. Looks like my r3 has a microphone KZ seldom disappoints. Best bang for your buck iems you can get!


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Agreed friend, and thanks for the tip with the moxpad cable. Looks like my r3 has a microphone KZ seldom disappoints. Best bang for your buck iems you can get!




Yeah ....use Moxpad cable and voila ...can use as microphone ....haha ...gotta love the Chinese for bang for buck affordable iem ...


----------



## peter123

How's the sound on R3 linear version compared with EDSE?


----------



## Wokei

The vocal and treble are up front..so they sound bright but just enuf so that it's not peaky...me love the sound sig on it...probably bcuz of the wood casing which gives it a natural timbre to the vocal...while the bass is present and comes out when the music requires it while the EDSE sound much more refined with good bass and treble being the prominent feature....just which the mid would be little forward..

R3 is not very forgiving on bad source of recording and to me...they have that raw sound which is very appealing to me


----------



## nismo88

I don't know which version of R3 I bought.. Gotta wait n see.. *fingers crossed...


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> How's the sound on R3 linear version compared with EDSE?


R3-has more bass (boomier), mids are about equal (edse might be a little more forward). Treble is more mellow on r3 and doesn't extend as far as edse. 

This is going off of what I'm hearing at the moment. Burn in might change this, and ymmv


----------



## Wokei

Me R3 have gone thru hell fire burn pit for more than 1000 hrs....lol


----------



## Wokei

nismo88 said:


> I don't know which version of R3 I bought.. Gotta wait n see.. *fingers crossed...




Haha....good luck



hisoundfi said:


> R3-has more bass (boomier), mids are about equal (edse might be a little more forward). Treble is more mellow on r3 and doesn't extend as far as edse.
> 
> This is going off of what I'm hearing at the moment. Burn in might change this, and ymmv




You need a drink...lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Haha....good luck
> You need a drink...lol




I must have got the bass monsters version of r3

Wokei tell me this, do your r3 linear have more or less bass than the micro ring? 

My r3 have more bass than my t1e.

I must have gotten the wrong model


----------



## Wokei

From yr description....you be having the monster version of r3....me bass is more thin sounding compared to T1E and micro ring....


----------



## Wokei

But I can tell you this me R3 sound like sh#t if the recording is bad but do so well with acoustic recording....really magical to me


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> R3-has more bass (boomier), mids are about equal (edse might be a little more forward). Treble is more mellow on r3 and doesn't extend as far as edse.
> 
> This is going off of what I'm hearing at the moment. Burn in might change this, and ymmv




Thank you, more bass than the edse doesn't sound like something I'd like 



wokei said:


> But I can tell you this me R3 sound like sh#t if the recording is bad but do so well with acoustic recording....really magical to me




How do we know which version we're getting? Are there visible differences or do we need to trust the seller?


----------



## Wokei

Kinda hard to advise you on this....me got it from Ali seller store...Earphones and Headphones....me told him in email...the linear version......which what I got...From the listing that I see from the other store....they look the same kinda like Havi in early days with the Pro 2


----------



## bhazard

Both R3 models have hugely bloated bass. I have both and can't tell the difference. I like the EDSE better. The R3 is great just for the cable.
  
 Not impressed with the R95 either, but the new ES model looks promising. It just went up on KZ's store. Does that say dual 8mm drivers?


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> Both R3 models have hugely bloated bass. I have both and can't tell the difference. I like the EDSE better. The R3 is great just for the cable.
> 
> Not impressed with the R95 either, but the new ES model looks promising. It just went up on KZ's store. Does that say dual 8mm drivers?


it says "dual membrane" technology whatever that means.


----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> it says "dual membrane" technology whatever that means.


 
 membrane translates to driver. $10 dual driver? awesome


----------



## Hisoundfi

I was wondering if it was along the lines of the ckr series by audio technica. 

Anyways, ordered mine the other day. It looks like it has the same awesome cable as the kzedse.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I was wondering if it was along the lines of the ckr series by audio technica.
> 
> Anyways, ordered mine the other day. It looks like it has the same awesome cable as the kzedse.




Gonna wait for yr impression before taking the dive....thanks for taking one for the team....lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard

Please provide a link to their store if you don't mind 

Thanks friend


----------



## mochill

I will also be getting the es. , I think dual membrane means the same as sennheiser duofol driver technology


----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> @bhazard
> 
> Please provide a link to their store if you don't mind
> 
> Thanks friend


 
 Taobao store:
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4002-218018788.31.CMgEpr&id=41020556757
  
 Aliexpress store:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-es-of-new-products-in-ear-headphones-professional-grade-sound-quality-music-phone-earbud-headset/2036415484.html
  
 The Ali store is awesome. ePacket shipping and no forwarding needed.


----------



## peter123

bhazard said:


> Both R3 models have hugely bloated bass. I have both and can't tell the difference. I like the EDSE better. The R3 is great just for the cable.
> 
> Not impressed with the R95 either, but the new ES model looks promising. It just went up on KZ's store. Does that say dual 8mm drivers?




Thanks, I'll definitely pass on the R3's then. Will check out around the ES instead.


----------



## altrunox

They all have the same box?
 Yeah box...I`ll get some for xmas gift, yeah xmas shipping is fuc*** slow to Brazil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 And a nice box is needed for this purpose.


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> Thanks, I'll definitely pass on the R3's then. Will check out around the ES instead.




LOL ...maybe Wokei got the only linear version in the world ...hahahah


----------



## Wokei

altrunox said:


> They all have the same box?
> Yeah box...I`ll get some for xmas gift, yeah xmas shipping is fuc*** slow to Brazil :angry_face:
> And a nice box is needed for this purpose.




That will depend on how the post office handle your package ..some of me KZ box comes nicely and some crushed ..hahaha ..good luck man


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> LOL ...maybe Wokei got the only linear version in the world ...hahahah




Lol, I'll have to wait for you to sell yours then


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> Lol, I'll have to wait for you to sell yours then




TBH ..before me HAVI and TTPOD T1E came ...they were getting a lot of playtime .....even SyedZ2ez4 whose end game precious CKR9 ...was impressed with the R3 ....haha ..no sell ..dont want to risk getting the bass version ...me have enuf bass iem ....muahahahahahaaaaaaa


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> TBH ..before me HAVI and TTPOD T1E came ...they were getting a lot of playtime .....even SyedZ2ez4 whose end game precious CKR9 ...was impressed with the R3 ....haha ..no sell ..dont want to risk getting the bass version ...me have enuf bass iem ....muahahahahahaaaaaaa




You know I trust your opinion, I'm also just afraid to get bassy ones. 

I learned a lesson when I bough my first pair of the Havi's ( seller promised it was the original version when in fact it was Pro2).


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> You know I trust your opinion, I'm also just afraid to get bassy ones.
> 
> I learned a lesson when I bough my first pair of the Havi's ( seller promised it was the original version when in fact it was Pro2).




Best not ....bcuz KZ models are plenty and they do come out with new models every so often .....besides you have more gears than most of us here .......what about that AD .....? Sumthing ...lol......


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> Best not ....bcuz KZ models are plenty and they do comw out with new models every so often .....besides you have more gears than most of us here .......what about that AD .....? Sumthing ...lol......




Lol, you're right. Also my DT880's has arrived. Will not have time to use them this weekend though


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> LOL ...maybe Wokei got the only linear version in the world ...hahahah


you got your linear from earphone and headphone from aliexpress? Ordered my linear r3 there but brazil customs are holding like always lol


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Waiting someone gets the KZ-es and give some impressions  and after that I can buy. 
Only listening music with my Kz-a1  good stuff until now


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> you got your linear from earphone and headphone from aliexpress? Ordered my linear r3 there but brazil customs are holding like always lol




Yes from that shop...Me luv me R3...ymmv...lol


----------



## peter123

I've been using the KZ EDSE pretty intesivly the last week and after finding them overly bassy initally I'm now using them with the JVC spiral dot tips and man do these sound great. I'll need to do some proper A/B but I think I'll prefer them over the Pistons 2.0 and maybe even over the T1E's (I know blasphemy but who cares  ). With the JVC tips the soundstage is great and the bass is way less boomy than my inital impression with other tips. Not bad for a sub $10 IEM!


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> I've been using the KZ EDSE pretty intesivly the last week and after finding them overly bassy initally I'm now using them with the JVC spiral dot tips and man do these sound great. I'll need to do some proper A/B but I think I'll prefer them over the Pistons 2.0 and maybe even over the T1E's (I know blasphemy but who cares  ). With the JVC tips the soundstage is great and the bass is way less boomy than my inital impression with other tips. Not bad for a sub $10 IEM!




+ Damm good for $10 ......me like treble and clarity ....with a little more burn in ....the bass will calm down .....Team Uygen Gray latest renegade member ....lol


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> + Damm good for $10 ......me like treble and clarity ....with a little more burn in ....the bass will calm down .....Team Uygen Gray latest renegade member ....lol


 
 +1, bass is much more to my liking now (altough I shouldn't be speaking to you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> +1, bass is much more to my liking now (altough I shouldn't be speaking to you :wink_face: )




Seriusly ..me preferred sound signature has change to more clarity detail and more emphasis on sound stage and less bass ....more flat neutral ..even at times me think bass in Havi wee bit strong in some recording ....yeah ...we shouldnt be talking to each other ...but me sure if we see each other ..you will still buy me a cup of coffee...muahahahahaaaaaaa


----------



## bhazard

Anyone else notice the KZSE is a balanced TRRS IEM, just like the RE-600? Anyone have a balanced amp to test with it?


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> Seriusly ..me preferred sound signature has change to more clarity detail and more emphasis on sound stage and less bass ....more flat neutral ..even at times me think bass in Havi wee bit strong in some recording ....yeah ...we shouldnt be talking to each other ...but me sure if we see each other ..you will still buy me a cup of coffee...muahahahahaaaaaaa


 
 Nope, tea


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> Nope, tea :atsmile:




Tea...Coffee...Me easy peasy...btw...did you get Vivo EX800...Me like very much...fosho'...Me put them head to head with Havi


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> Tea...Coffee...Me easy peasy...btw...did you get Vivo EX800...Me like very much...fosho'...Me put them head to head with Havi


 
 No unfortunately I didn't, kind of regret that now


----------



## Wokei

peter123 said:


> No unfortunately I didn't, kind of regret that now :confused_face:




It may not have Havi soundstage but the detail clarity and the natural timbre...it's amazing...bass is tight and fast...Muahahahahahaha


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> It may not have Havi soundstage but the detail clarity and the natural timbre...it's amazing...bass is tight and fast...Muahahahahahaha




Yeah, just rub it in. Fortunately these DT880 sounds pretty decent, wonderful bass.


----------



## Wokei

Not rubbing it in...bro...never my intention...just wonder why you did not get it...tell me about DT880...take your time..no rush...u know me was offered good price for it...Muahahahahahaha


----------



## Francisk

Just received my KZ EDSE 2 days ago. I must say for $10 this is surely a very decent sounding IEM. My only gripe is that the bass spills a bit into the mids. Just enough to cloud the mids a bit. There seems to be some driver flex too.....but never the less it's a good IEM for the price.


----------



## Wokei

francisk said:


> Just received my KZ EDSE 2 days ago. I must say for $10 this is surely a very decent sounding IEM. My only gripe is that the bass spills a bit into the mids. Just enough to cloud the mids a bit. There seems to be some driver flex too.....but never the less it's a good IEM for the price.




Burn them for 500 hrs like what mo' recommended...lol....bass will calm wee bit ...btw nice avatar...Me likey color


----------



## Francisk

Haha Wokei, I'll take your word for it and leave my KZ EDSE plugged to my PC playing 24 hours a day. Shouldn't take that long to reach 500 hours 

My new avatar is the FitEar logo.....


----------



## Wokei

francisk said:


> Haha Wokei, I'll take your word for it and leave my KZ EDSE plugged to my PC playing 24 hours a day. Shouldn't take that long to reach 500 hours
> 
> My new avatar is the FitEar logo.....




peter123 had similar issue with this too..he change the tip to JVC spiral tip...it seem to do the trick for him...some tip rolling required then...with some burn in...non believer need not apply...lol...what the heck...for 10$ ...not much to complaint..best price to ratio performance with one of the best cable ever me seen...


----------



## Francisk

I changed the stock tips to JVC Spiral tips the very first day I receive the KZ EDSE


----------



## Wokei

francisk said:


> I changed the stock tips to JVC Spiral tips the very first day I receive the KZ EDSE




Good luck then ....tip rolling then ....burn in then ....come back then ..report result then ....


----------



## Francisk

Will do that Wokei


----------



## Hisoundfi

Buying a set of headphones for the tips is like a cocaine addict saying... 

"I don't snort cocaine for the high. I do it because I like the smell..."

We're all addicts on here lol


----------



## Wokei

francisk said:


> Will do that Wokei




Hey bro ...we should meet up for fellow Malaysian ..one day with SyedZ2ez4 soon ...we be in the city


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Buying a set of headphones for the tips is like a cocaine addict saying...
> 
> "I don't snort cocaine for the high. I do it because I like the smell..."
> 
> We're all addicts on here lol




Me think your post should be in TTPOD T1E thread ..inresponse to slowpickr post ..this is KZ thread ...you need some shut eye ...lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

Whoops...


----------



## Francisk

My apologies for the double post


----------



## Francisk

That'd be great Wokei. I'll be available on Sunday. Let me know the time & venue


----------



## Wokei

francisk said:


> That'd be great Wokei. I'll be available on Sunday. Let me know the time & venue




Will contact Syed and no witches allowed ...lol


----------



## peter123

francisk said:


> Just received my KZ EDSE 2 days ago. I must say for $10 this is surely a very decent sounding IEM. My only gripe is that the bass spills a bit into the mids. Just enough to cloud the mids a bit. There seems to be some driver flex too.....but never the less it's a good IEM for the price.




Yep, I totally agree on the bass. Although it's much better now than out of the box it's still far from perfect. Still, there's something about these that just make me relax and enjoy the music


----------



## mochill

Bass textures and smooth sound signature


----------



## Wokei

mochill said:


> Bass textures and smooth sound signature




Most of all..it's very good for long listening session...


----------



## rafaelroxalot

anyone got the kz es?


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> anyone got the kz es?




Me think...nope....so far...


----------



## mochill

My ones coming next week ..so is my hifiman es100 and ordered the sidy sjp800 which is tuned for ultra transparency and resolution for $25 they look sexy too


----------



## Wokei

mochill said:


> My ones coming next week ..so is my hifiman es100 and ordered the sidy sjp800 which is tuned for ultra transparency and resolution for $25 they look sexy too




Mo' ...where u orderes yr KZ es ...Aliexpress?


----------



## mochill

Special location


----------



## bhazard

mochill said:


> My ones coming next week ..so is my hifiman es100 and ordered the sidy sjp800 which is tuned for ultra transparency and resolution for $25 they look sexy too


 
 Ultra transparency you say? Those are Havi type words.


----------



## Charliemotta

bhazard said:


> Ultra transparency you say? Those are Havi type words.


 
 Where did you find the Sidy's?    ♫♫


----------



## robervaul

charliemotta said:


> Where did you find the Sidy's?    ♫♫


 
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4002-2023857464.43.m4Z4sE&id=40187647358
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAIJIANPU-SJP800-HiFi-Quality-Professional-Inner-Ear-Earphones-with-Mic-/380968828682
http://penonaudio.com/SAIJIANPU-SJP800


----------



## PeterDLai

Is this "SAI JIAN PU" brand a subsidiary of SIDY/BGVP?


----------



## mochill

I think sidy created them


----------



## Hisoundfi

Ya, those sijianpu are on Penonaudio


----------



## altrunox

I`ve already submited it on the chinese thread, but I guess there`s no problem to submit it here too
  
 --
 The Kz Oficial store has some really nice deals, two earphones together with a discount.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/oem-purchase-kz-es-and-ed-special-edition-headphone-ear-headphones-piston-lower-the-headset/1380688_2036915498.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/direct-ear-headphones-with-a-microphone-kz-rx-version-with-piston-type-bass-headphones-with-a/1380688_2036921406.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Mid-Autumn-Festival-gift-two-headphones-just-17-in-ear-headphones-kz-c3-and-kz-2013/1380688_2036874930.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Ear-Headphones-HD-quality-headphones-kz-c3-and-kz-gr-piston-headphones-playing-demolition/1380688_2036449911.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Ear-Headphones-kz-r95-and-kz-rx-bass-headphones-with-a-microphone-headset-piston-big-discount/1380688_2036448400.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Promotional-kz-ed1-phone-headset-with-microphone-bass-ed-Special-Edition-Package-sold-two-headsets/1380688_2036904601.html

 The first one is really cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 Got it, with two cables.

 --
 I asked the seller and he told me the items will go in just one box, no problem I guess, since it`s cheaper.


----------



## nismo88

wokei said:


> Mo' ...where u orderes yr KZ es ...Aliexpress?


 

 Got my edse yesterday and the sound is WOAH GOOD... especially for the money!!!... Soundstage, mid & sub bass (although a tad much) is ok for me... couldn't ask for more... best part you can listen and listen and listen on.... very commendable iem...
  
 Saw this seller for KZ-ES... 
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-es-double-membrane-ear-headphones-sound-professional-bass-music-phone-headset-microphone-headset-does-not/2036389549.html
  
 Then I went out and bought another edse... good price too...
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED2-professional-in-ear-headphones-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-Earphone-China-s-high/2031908818.html


----------



## benandfaith

Woah! That's cheap! ^^


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> Woah! That's cheap! ^^




Yes and feckin amazing considering the price...best cable me ever seen for an iem...KZ EDSE


----------



## benandfaith

Sadly I bought the kz set of these two iems a few hours before nismo88 post... Paid 80c more! Haha


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> Sadly I bought the kz set of these two iems a few hours before nismo88 post... Paid 80c more! Haha




Wow...that must have hurt a lot...lol...


----------



## peter123

wokei said:


> Yes and feckin amazing considering the price...*best cable me ever seen for an iem...KZ EDSE*


 
 +1


----------



## benandfaith

wokei said:


> Wow...that must have hurt a lot...lol...




If I can save 80c 100 times I can afford DGS100!


----------



## Wokei

benandfaith said:


> If I can save 80c 100 times I can afford DGS100!




Good call.good luck to you...you need it....lol


----------



## sujitsky

Officially joining team KZ!


----------



## Wokei

sujitsky said:


> Officially joining team KZ!




Team KZ ..yeah


----------



## robervaul

sujitsky said:


> Officially joining team KZ!


 

 +1
I'm just on my way GR, EDSE, ES​


----------



## Wokei

robervaul said:


> +1
> 
> I'm juston my wayGR, EDSE, ES​




Good starter choice...ES...still waiting for feedback...cheers


----------



## robervaul

I need to do this test in the GR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
​


----------



## Wokei

robervaul said:


> I need to dothis testin theGR
> 
> 
> 
> ​




Good luck and do update with pic..lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

You guys could probably tow a car with the m/f lossless occ cable they are selling. It's ridiculously thick and rugged for its price. Like the gr cable but 2x, maybe 3x as thick.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> You guys could probably tow a car with the m/f lossless occ cable they are selling. It's ridiculously thick and rugged for its price. Like the gr cable but 2x, maybe 3x as thick.




Pic please... If you can.. Thanks


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm at work right now, I'll post when I get home


----------



## Wokei

Thanks buddy... Hisoundfi


----------



## rafaelroxalot

my kz-gr is out for delivery today, waiting to see  already liked the Kz-a1, great bass, but overwhelm a little bit other frequencies, like a dark sound? i don't know how to name this lol, lets see gr


----------



## Charliemotta

wokei said:


> Pic please... If you can.. Thanks


 
 Yup, I picked up 2 of them...Can't go wrong for $5..    ♫♫


----------



## Charliemotta

wokei said:


> Pic please... If you can.. Thanks


 
 No pics yet cause one of them is being used to tow a cement truck, and the other one is being used to anchor an ocean liner to the dock..   ♫♫


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> Yup, I picked up 2 of them...Can't go wrong for $5..    ♫♫


 

Ya, and they are some of the nicest quality I've ever seen. I hope they come out with 3.5mm jumpers


----------



## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> Ya, and they are some of the nicest quality I've ever seen. I hope they come out with 3.5mm jumpers


 
 That would nice...can't see why not.


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> No pics yet cause one of them is being used to tow a cement truck, and the other one is being used to anchor an ocean liner to the dock..   ♫♫







hisoundfi said:


> Ya, and they are some of the nicest quality I've ever seen. I hope they come out with 3.5mm jumpers




Pic ..please ..thank you


----------



## Hisoundfi

Kz-r3 cable next to KZ m/f lossless occ extension cable


----------



## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> Kz-r3 cable next to KZ m/f lossless occ extension cable


 
 Mine will be here today....first test is I'm gonna pull my buddies truck out of the ditch.


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> Mine will be here today....first test is I'm gonna pull my buddies truck out of the ditch.


Lol, I just built my son a swing with them. Jkjk


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> Mine will be here today....first test is I'm gonna pull my buddies truck out of the ditch.







hisoundfi said:


> Lol, I just built my son a swing with them. Jkjk




With that cable..me can be Tarzan... Swing from tree to tree


----------



## Hisoundfi

If we ever have a head fi convention we can tie them together and have tug of war, team clear vs team blue vs team kz, vs team purple. 

Hey Wokei which rope are you pulling?


----------



## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> If we ever have a head fi convention we can tie them together and have tug of war, team clear vs team blue vs team kz, vs team purple.
> 
> Hey Wokei which rope are you pulling?


 
 I don't think it's a rope that he's pulling...Lol....♫


----------



## Wokei

Team clear... All the way...... Stick with the winners... That's how me roll.... Muahahahahahaha


----------



## Hisoundfi

Lol that's the most awesomesauce gif I ever saw


----------



## Hisoundfi

"Gif hype"


----------



## Francisk

Yes it's official now.....Wokei is the KING of GIF


----------



## Wokei

Thanks 





francisk said:


> Yes it's official now.....Wokei is the KING of GIF




Thanks... Here is one that I've been trying to do but fail...


----------



## gabrielossw9

Hi guys I'm following the topic since 1 week ago, and now I want to buy a kz earphone to enter in the group  

I like pop, rock, reggae and country music 
Clean sound with a little bit of bass 

My favorite bands are green day, maroon 5,white stripes, Jake bugg, Queen, Bruno Mars, 30 seconds to Mars 

I want a earphone to use at bus or train 

I'm thinking about kz ed3, a1 and special edition, what's the best for me? 

Thanks guys, and I love this Gifs D


----------



## Hisoundfi

gabrielossw9 said:


> Hi guys I'm following the topic since 1 week ago, and now I want to buy a kz earphone to enter in the group
> 
> I like pop, rock, reggae and country music
> Clean sound with a little bit of bass
> ...


KZ ed special edition is my favorite of all the kz I own


----------



## Francisk

wokei said:


> Thanks
> Thanks... Here is one that I've been trying to do but fail...




It's ok Wokei..... You're the king of GIF......not a king stripper


----------



## Francisk

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ed special edition is my favorite of all the kz I own




Is KZ ED better than the KZ EDSE? Just curious because I just received my KZ EDSE a few days ago


----------



## gabrielossw9

francisk said:


> Is KZ ED better than the KZ EDSE? Just curious because I just received my KZ EDSE a few days ago




I'm curious too,because kz ed3 is very more expensive than Kz EDSE, now I can find it for the same price but with ed3 original price I can buy 2 EDSE


----------



## Wokei

For KZ model's...pricing is not the indicator for better sound...ED3 imho is also bang for buck with equal built quality as EDSE..slightly different signature...brighter with crisper detail and wider soundstage though the bass is slightly wee bit less than EDSE..with regard to pricing...maybe they are trying to push this model out cheaper to get more people to buy...back when me was buying KZ...it was not that cheap...you guys are getting it good for current price


----------



## altrunox

Just get all of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 They`re really cheap on KZ store, must buy


----------



## Wokei

Personally...some KZ model just hit the right sweet spot for me for certain genre of music...unless you are the type to use one iem for all music...also bear in mind....you are paying fraction of the price for branded stuff...there is of cuz gonna be some down side...less refined + clarity to 100$ iem...For example the KZ R3 Linear Pro is one me fav for acoustic and female vocal music because it's sound signature is raw and with the vocal very upfront...though they are not good with EDM music


----------



## erenjay

Are there any kz iem suitable for sleeping? Also , are the Micro ring still available? Lots of places seem to be putting the price up to around $30, so I think they might have stopped making them?


----------



## Wokei

erenjay said:


> Are there any kz iem suitable for sleeping? Also , are the Micro ring still available? Lots of places seem to be putting the price up to around $30, so I think they might have stopped making them?




KZ Mixro is the smallest size but at that price ...better to get SOUNDMAGIC E30 ..best for sleeping ..imho...great balanced sound


----------



## rontant

erenjay said:


> Are there any kz iem suitable for sleeping? Also , are the Micro ring still available? Lots of places seem to be putting the price up to around $30, so I think they might have stopped making them?


 
  
 There are still a couple of merchants selling the micro ring for CNY68 at Taobao.
  
 You can still get it at Aliexpress around US$13.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> There are still a couple of merchants selling the micro ring for CNY68 at Taobao.
> 
> You can still get it at Aliexpress around US$13.




Bro ...been reading on Altone 200 ...so pumped for you ....impressive and good review ...wooot wooot


----------



## rontant

@Wokei,  Altone 200? You mean at the Altone 200 thread? Well, yeah, I am not sure though how many from that particular thread are even aware of DGS100.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> @Wokei
> ,  Altone 200? You mean at the Altone 200 thread? Well, yeah, I am not sure though how many from that particular thread are even aware of DGS100.




You were aware of them ..to get Altone 200 and DGS100 ...lol...


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> You were aware of them ..to get Altone 200 and DGS100 ...lol...


 
 I blame it on @Hisoundfi. His dgs100 hype train came a tad too late.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> I blame it on @Hisoundfi
> . His dgs100 hype train came a tad too late.




Well for sure ..you'll be getting two awesome hybrid iem ...lol ....so what's next on your list ?

i know for sure Fiio X1 ..what about Cayin C5 ..is that resistance wilting too ?.....lol


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> Well for sure ..you'll be getting two awesome hybrid iem ...lol ....so what's next on your list ?
> 
> i know for sure Fiio X1 ..what about Cayin C5 ..is that resistance wilting too ?.....lol


 
  
 That Cayin is way out of my league, man.   I will wait for you to get one and sell it to me cheap after you get tired of it.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> That Cayin is way out of my league, man.   I will wait for you to get one and sell it to me cheap after you get tired of it.




From review ..Cayin C5 is da bomb ....me gonna sit this one out .....not enuf dolla man ......me NX1, Sap-5s and Goldie Bear B-2 will do for now ...lol


----------



## robervaul

Anyone had good hopes about this?
Read it and say its conclusions.​ 
  ​ *KZ latest masterpiece ES dynamic headphones* 

 http://www.kzearphone.com/English/html/7618255940.html


----------



## Wokei

robervaul said:


> Anyone hadgoodhopesabout this?
> 
> 
> Read it andsayits conclusions.​
> ...




Lol...reading it gives me headache...probably best wait for Headfi member to give impressions..


----------



## robervaul




----------



## mochill

Mine should be here tomorrow or the next day


----------



## altrunox

LOL, can't understand anything on this KZ link, looks like the aliexpress seller wrote it
 Anyway, I bought it with the KZ ED on aliexpress.
 Should arrive in two or three months...


----------



## Wokei

mochill said:


> Mine should be here tomorrow or the next day




Can't wait for yr one liner emoticon review...Lol...make it brief


----------



## rafaelroxalot

altrunox said:


> LOL, can't understand anything on this KZ link, looks like the aliexpress seller wrote it
> Anyway, I bought it with the KZ ED on aliexpress.
> Should arrive in two or three months...


 yes everyone gets on a week or two and Brazilians, 2 months


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> Mine should be here tomorrow or the next day


 waiting for your impressions


----------



## rafaelroxalot

rontant said:


> I blame it on @Hisoundfi
> . His dgs100 hype train came a tad too late.


 with the DGS100 i will not miss altone 200?


----------



## Wokei

3 weeks+ for me and 2 weeks if lucky..Lol...that bad for Brazilian...well that means you get longer time to play with existing gears much longer...


----------



## rafaelroxalot

wokei said:


> 3 weeks+ for me and 2 weeks if lucky..Lol...that bad for Brazilian...well that means you get longer time to play with existing gears much longer...


 if i order dgs100 now, i will get when no one wants or talk about that anymore lol


----------



## rontant

rafaelroxalot said:


> with the DGS100 i will not miss altone 200?




I don't know. I am currently overseas, so these two pairs are still sitting at home in the box, unmolested. It was Hisoundfi who said dgs100 "outclassed" Altone but I already bought Altone when he said it.


----------



## Wokei

rafaelroxalot said:


> if i order dgs100 now, i will get when no one wants or talk about that anymore lol




Don't think so...look at Havi....Been around since last year March...still going strong....Lol


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> I don't know. I am currently overseas, so these two pairs are still sitting at home in the box, unmolested. It was Hisoundfi who said dgs100 "outclassed" Altone but I already bought Altone when he said it.




Somehow...it seems that post is directed to me...Lol...did me have some to do with you buying Altone...


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> Somehow...it seems that post is directed to me...Lol...did me have some to do with you buying Altone...


 
  
 You have my share of blames for KZ EDSE and KZ GR.
  

  
  
 Btw, is KZ Tuner forgettable?


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> You have my share of blames for KZ EDSE and KZ GR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Tuner ...still in burn in pit...haven't actually listen to them...actually...


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> I don't know. I am currently overseas, so these two pairs are still sitting at home in the box, unmolested. It was Hisoundfi who said dgs100 "outclassed" Altone but I already bought Altone when he said it.


A couple things to note... 

#1 Sidy came out with the DGS100 after the altone200, actually a couple months after I think...

#2 Just because I am over here having a good time with my dgs100, and saying that I prefer it over other products, it doesn't make the altone200, or GR07BE, or any other IEM inferior. Many people are going to agree to disagree with me on this and say the altone200 is better. It's a matter of preference. 

If the altone200 seems to be too bright for your taste I suggest the DGS100 as your next option. But to be honest if something comes out next week that outclasses the DGS100 I will say so. This hobby is evolving at an incredibly fast pace. It's exciting times. You will never have "the best for the price" because that's always going to change with time. 

Instead, find out what type of signature you like and read the reviews. Once you narrow it down, pull the trigger on what you feel will give you your best option at the price you're willing to pay. 

My excitement with this hobby is to see the next latest and greatest thing come out. It doesn't mean I have to buy it every time. If the reviews and impressions sound like something I have to have I'll buy it. 

I'm holding out on getting the vsd3 despite the great reviews and impressions because the next vsonic I'm going to buy will be the vsd7.

There's so much good stuff out right now, and so much on the way. 

I thought my sony h3 was end game, at least for the next year or so. Four months later, it turns out that based on my preference it has been outclassed by a $80 hybrid in the DGS100. That's one opinion based on one preference. It just goes to show you that the quest for "end game" doesn't exist.


----------



## mochill

Stax sr-009


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> If the altone200 seems to be too bright for your taste I suggest the DGS100 as your next option.


 
 I have already pulled the trigger on both Altone and DGS100. LOL... Time to apply for my 2nd job.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> I have already pulled the trigger on both Altone and DGS100. LOL...


Well then, I'm looking forward to your impressions lol


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Well then, I'm looking forward to your impressions lol




rontant would have lots of iem to review...Havi..TTPOD T1E...Altone...DGS100...Lol...buddy...did me miss anything out...?


----------



## rontant

Penon IEM. 
  
 I think both my KZ EDSE and GR are lost in the mail.


----------



## Hisoundfi

KZ ED special edition 


IMHO this is the best bang for your buck iem I've come across. I have no idea how they make money on these. The build quality is phenomenal, the sound is fantastic. I really love the midrange on these.


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ED special edition
> 
> 
> IMHO this is the best bang for your buck iem I've come across. I have no idea how they make money on these. The build quality is phenomenal, the sound is fantastic. I really love the midrange on these.




Agree 100%, if they'd only had less bass they'd really be challenging some of the way more expensive competition.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ED special edition
> 
> 
> IMHO this is the best bang for your buck iem I've come across. I have no idea how they make money on these. The build quality is phenomenal, the sound is fantastic. I really love the midrange on these.


 
 I just received mine 10 minutes ago, after a little shipping issue with KZ, and I can't agree more. Should we be mad at other companies for charging what they do?? The cable alone is worth the price of admission. The only other cable I have that just unravels like this is the one that came with my Heir Audio. You guys got me started on these asian brands and I just can't stop (thank you?). Best of all there's no guilt! Lunch costs more than this!


----------



## gabrielossw9

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ED special edition
> 
> 
> IMHO this is the best bang for your buck iem I've come across. I have no idea how they make money on these. The build quality is phenomenal, the sound is fantastic. I really love the midrange on these.




Where did you buy EDSE? Aliexpress? 


Yeh, Brazilians  1 week to comes from China to Brazil , and 6~7 weeks from other state to my house. 
The problem isn't the Chinese mail , the problem is Brazil mail, they priorize the internal mail to desestimulate the importantion 

And if u pay for dhl shipping you probably will pay taxes, 50~60% from the original price 
Example, if I pay 100$ on a earphone I'll need to pay 60% (60$) of taxes to receive my product
And the total is 160$


----------



## Hisoundfi

Agreed 

I'm really looking forward to the kz es

It appears to have the same cable from the pictures. 

The "dual membrane" sounds like they are concentrating on tuning with them also


----------



## Hisoundfi

gabrielossw9 said:


> Where did you buy EDSE? Aliexpress?
> 
> 
> Yeh, Brazilians  1 week to comes from China to Brazil , and 6~7 weeks from other state to my house.
> ...


Last time I looked the kzedse was like $7.85 usd with free shipping on aliexpress. 

Crazy! Might as well be free!


----------



## rafaelroxalot

only waiting to someone say something about the es to pull the trigger


----------



## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> Last time I looked the kzedse was like $7.85 usd with free shipping on aliexpress.
> 
> Crazy! Might as well be free!


 
 Just bought a 3rd pair for $7.69...  ♫♫


----------



## rontant

Is KZ ANV any good? It's less than $10.


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> Is KZ ANV any good? It's less than $10.




They are lush warm sounding...initial impression...on burn in pit...they don't sound good straight from the dap or phone...imho they need amp to sound good...but for that price...Hell yeah...they remind me of Soundmagic E30...if you do get them...you'll be amazed by the built quality...

Btw...the shell casing is similar to ATH CKW1000ANV...Lol...very nice piano black gloss...


----------



## rontant

It looks like the $200 ATH CKM99.  Not bad for $9.50


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> It looks like the $200 ATH CKM99.  Not bad for $9.50




They look more like ATH CKW100ANV ...lol


----------



## michele009

Just bought KZ EDSE. Will I put brainwavz delta in the drawer because of them? Let's see


----------



## Wokei

michele009 said:


> Just bought KZ EDSE. Will I put brainwavz delta in the drawer because of them? Let's see




You just might ...cuz EDSE sounds much more fun compared to Delta ...imho ..find them a bit lifeless....lol


----------



## nismo88

charliemotta said:


> Just bought a 3rd pair for $7.69...  ♫♫


 

 I did that too... Can't resist the $7.69.....


----------



## altrunox

7.69?!
 Where?


----------



## Wokei

altrunox said:


> 7.69?!
> Where?




http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6240870997.html

Woooot ...wooooot


----------



## altrunox

Ok, they look the same, but the sound of them and the KZ ED are the same?


----------



## Wokei

altrunox said:


> Ok, they look the same, but the sound of them and the KZ ED are the same?




ED2 and EDSE are the same ....lol


----------



## rafaelroxalot

and the kz es? any news?


----------



## mochill

Tomorrow ill post impression


----------



## altrunox

I already can hear it coming


----------



## Wokei

altrunox said:


> I already can hear it coming :tongue_smile: :eek:




What came today ...?


----------



## mixolyd

So my first ever Head-Fi purchase arrived today: KZ EDSE's. After months of relying on crappy unbranded in ears since I lost my old JVC Marshmallows I can finally enjoy music again! Thanks to everyone who has recommended these: for less than £7 delivered by EMS these things are RIDICULOUSLY good. They blow my old Marshmallows out of the water with none of the overwhelming sibilance they had, plus ample bass presence. These seem to have more treble than the JVC's or my Sennheiser HD555 cans but don't require the EQ to remove treble that the JVC's needed as it isn't ear-bleedingly harsh.

Mids (lower mids?) seem a little recessed compared to the strong bass and treble but it's difficult to say as my ears are used to the "blanket over the speaker over AM radio" phenomenon with previous in-ears compared to these. I look forward to seeing how these progress (do these change with burn in?) and maybe using them as a yardstick to see what signature I'm after for when I have the cash for a more expensive purchase like Havi, DGS100 or Vsonic.

Thanks again guys: you've given me my music back.


----------



## Wokei

mixolyd...good to hear you liking them...Cheers mate


----------



## michele009

wokei said:


> You just might ...cuz EDSE sounds much more fun compared to Delta ...imho ..find them a bit lifeless....lol


 
 that's a good news. Hope they come soon...any experience with EMS?


----------



## Hisoundfi

michele009 said:


> that's a good news. Hope they come soon...any experience with EMS?


2 weeks to a month, sometimes more depending on where you live


----------



## michele009

hisoundfi said:


> 2 weeks to a month, sometimes more depending on where you live


 
 Thanks... I miss Amazon Prime...


----------



## Hisoundfi

michele009 said:


> Thanks... I miss Amazon Prime...


The price and product will make it worth the wait


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> Tomorrow ill post impression


kz-es?


----------



## mochill

Yes kz es but it didn't come today but it ill come tomorrow definitely


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> Tomorrow ill post impression




Where?


----------



## mochill

Read post above ^^^^


----------



## nismo88

Getting deeper and deeper into KZ iems.... just ordered the KZ-ED3 today....


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> Read post above ^^^^


 
  
 Oops... sorry.. I marked my calendar to make sure I read your KZ ES impression first thing in the morning and was utterly disappointed when I couldn't find it. LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Hope you get your ES today!
  
  


nismo88 said:


> Getting deeper and deeper into KZ iems.... just ordered the KZ-ED3 today....


 
  
 Anything deeper you will become one of the KZ Dungeon Masters in no time.


----------



## nismo88

Perhaps you are right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  waiting for someone to give impressions of the ES as well...


----------



## rontant

Just look what $38 can get you... amazing price indeed!


----------



## Wokei

rontant.....is the KZ Dungeon Master!


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> @rontant.....is the KZ Dungeon Master!


 
 In that case, you are KZ Dungeon Overlord!


----------



## Hisoundfi

Where does Charliemotta factor into the kz Kingdom?


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Where does Charliemotta factor into the kz Kingdom?




He be the Wizard of KZ..


----------



## Charliemotta

I humbly accept your compliment....♫♫


----------



## mochill

Kz es plus hifiman es100 and sidy sjp800 are out for delivery


----------



## fluxcore

Just received my EDSEs (from an aforementioned aliexpress seller) - so far pretty impressed, however there's a lot more treble than I'm used to (my main listening phones are Denon AH-D1001s). Also I'd really like some double flange tips, the big ones make a seal but I'm used to my large double flanges from my M11+ (whose R ear cable has sadly died up by the earphone, and I'd just bought extra tips too, darnit)
  
 Certainly can't go wrong for the money.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> Kz es plus hifiman es100 and sidy sjp800 are out for delivery


you got sjp800 you are the master! Waiting for impressions of all these 3


----------



## solcrystal

Could anyone give more info or share their impressions on these?  It says 2013 as the model, but on the pictures themselves, I see it's marked differently (DQ1000 or something?)
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-kz-2013-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headphones-metallic-appearance/1960035070.html


----------



## mochill

The balance on the kz es Is the best I heard so far of the 4 I have (r3 pro linear,ed3, edse,and es). They did a wonderful job with dynamic and details . Has perfect balance from treble to bass nothing standing out and the details are stellar , soundstage also another great aspect of this iem and no driver flex (FINALLY!!!)..hifiman es100 as well is balance with amazing timber in the midrange and treble extension in out of this world , bass is fast tight and punchy soundstage is beating the best iem (havi b3 pro 1 )..and for sjp800 (haven't listened to them)


----------



## clee290

KZ ES soundstage beating the Havi B3?! Whoa!


----------



## mochill

No , the hifiman es100 is beating the havi in soundstage . The es is bigger then the sidy dgs100 or very close to beating it without burn in


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> No , the hifiman es100 is beating the havi in soundstage . The es is bigger then the sidy dgs100 or very close to beating it without burn in


beating the DGS100 without burn? Kz es? Whats that? So its clearly better than kz edese? Waiting for sjp800 impressions


----------



## clee290

mochill said:


> No , the hifiman es100 is beating the havi in soundstage . The es is bigger then the sidy dgs100 or very close to beating it without burn in


 
 Oh! Not sure why I missed that  Those earbuds look interesting, may need to put them on my wishlist


----------



## robervaul

Crazy train


----------



## robervaul

I had a good feeling when I read this. *The acme*
British Dictionary definitions for acme: _the__ culminating point, as of achievement or excellence; summit; _peak


----------



## altrunox

Oh man, here it comes!





  
 Where`s the Kz overlord?
@Wokei


----------



## mochill

Yes the acme is amazing especially sound , side not listening to the sjp800 , midrange is clear,treble less extended and bass lighter but textured also seem like it needs more power than the es soundstage reproduction also wonderful ..damn all these new iem with amazing soundstage and sound plus considering there price I dont this I'll be buy the very expensive iem and headphone in the future if this is the path the Chinese iem keeps going


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> The balance on the kz es Is the best I heard so far of the 4 I have (r3 pro linear,ed3, edse,and es). They did a wonderful job with dynamic and details . Has perfect balance from treble to bass nothing standing out and the details are stellar , soundstage also another great aspect of this iem and no driver flex (FINALLY!!!)..




I am glad I included ES in my last purchase. Had a good hunch about it. 
A question, master Mo: does it mean there are driver flexes on all other models of KZ or what?


----------



## mochill

Yes I have drive flex with all model except the es, another side note is the sjp800 is power hungry and never distort


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> Yes I have drive flex with all model except the es, another side note is the sjp800 is power hungry and never distort




Why the sad face, master Mo? I understand sjp800 comes with 2 colors: pink and gold. Does PenonAudio offer both colors as well? Would love to hear more about sjp800 from you.


----------



## Wokei

altrunox said:


> Oh man, here it comes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Me in old folk home on sabbatical torment...haha


----------



## mochill

Only gold color for sjp800 from penonaudio, damn they both are great  , sjp800 requires havi b3 pro 1 level power and never distort and that is crazy . Bass is similar to the havi and midrange is same but treble is slightly less in db so for people sensitive to treble these will be awesome and soundstage is as big if not bigger and that is the impression without burn in


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> Only gold color for sjp800 from penonaudio, damn they both are great  , sjp800 requires havi b3 pro 1 level power and never distort and that is crazy . Bass is similar to the havi and midrange is same but treble is slightly less in db so for people sensitive to treble these will be awesome and soundstage is as big if not bigger and that is the impression without burn in




You realize master mo that your bold statement above can potentially alter the competition landscape of b3 pro 1?


----------



## mochill

I'm ready


----------



## Charliemotta

mochill said:


> The balance on the kz es Is the best I heard so far of the 4 I have (r3 pro linear,ed3, edse,and es). They did a wonderful job with dynamic and details . Has perfect balance from treble to bass nothing standing out and the details are stellar , soundstage also another great aspect of this iem and no driver flex (FINALLY!!!)..hifiman es100 as well is balance with amazing timber in the midrange and treble extension in out of this world , bass is fast tight and punchy soundstage is beating the best iem (havi b3 pro 1 )..and for sjp800 (haven't listened to them)


 
 I bought 2 of the KZ-ES almost a month ago because I had a gut feeling they would be great..maybe will have to get a 3rd??    ♫♫


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> I bought 2 of the KZ-ES almost a month ago because I had a gut feeling they would be great..maybe will have to get a 3rd??    ♫♫




You are truly the Wizard of KZ...


----------



## Charliemotta

wokei said:


> You are truly the Wizard of KZ...


 
 You funny guy Massa Wokei...


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> You funny guy Massa Wokei...




Entertainment value...buddy...lol


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Kz es with mic or without? Any difference? Which should i get?


----------



## mochill

I got non mic ... I don't use mic .


----------



## robervaul

mochill said:


> I got non mic ... I don't use mic .


 
have option to choose?​


----------



## mochill

I think you can


----------



## Baycode

Ordered KZ ES aka the ACME ... Lets see how it goes...


----------



## mochill

Don't know what acme stands for but I am loving them


----------



## robervaul

This passion is the same when had Tenore?


----------



## robervaul

mochill said:


> Don't know what acme stands for but I am loving them


----------



## mochill

Ok looked up the definition and it says highest point of achievement when I think is true for a dynamic driver iem


----------



## rafaelroxalot

robervaul said:


> haveoption tochoose?​


yes, one dollar difference


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> Ok looked up the definition and it says highest point of achievement when I think is true for a dynamic driver iem


 cool, continue to share your impressions as burn in, thanks man
And about the sjp800? Looks like that honor the appearance


----------



## mochill

The textures I'm hearing from instruments are crazy


----------



## nismo88

Ordered the ES...... Cant resist....


----------



## Terahertz

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ED special edition
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


How do these compare to Xiaomi Pistons v2.1? They also have a pretty good bang for the buck deal going for them.


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> Don't know what acme stands for but I am loving them




It is there in the Merriam-Webster dictionary: the highest point or stage.


----------



## tsetse7

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ED special edition
> 
> 
> IMHO this is the best bang for your buck iem I've come across. I have no idea how they make money on these. The build quality is phenomenal, the sound is fantastic. I really love the midrange on these.


 
 Completely agree. Best bang and by far. Just got these yesterday and WOW. Without burn-in, I am simply amazed. No driver flex, flawless build quality and layers over layers of sound. I have multiple drivers iems that simply cannot deliver that sort of layers. Simply incredible. The cable is fantastic, absolutely no microphonic. Midrange and treble to die for. Every time I listen to them I can' believe my ears. Either I got an exceptional pair made by virgins under fool moon or these actually cost $100 and being financed by a philanthropic audiophile billionaire for the head-fi community.
 I will have to buy a couple to gift to friends. No i'll just buy 5 or 6. First I will have to listen to crappy smartphone output to delivery the final verdict and say this is the best thing since sliced bread but I' m so happy I got on that one train.
 These actually compares to the Yamaha HPH-200 that I paid $175 and that I think have exceptional SQ and a gem in themselves.


----------



## bhazard

The KZSE is definitely a cut above the rest of the KZ line. I'm interested in how the ES will sound. Should be in my hands soon.


----------



## mochill

All these great Stuff coming out


----------



## bhazard

New version ED3?
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4002-218018788.30.BekWmv&id=41248430944


----------



## Gandroid

bhazard said:


> New version ED3?
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4002-218018788.30.BekWmv&id=41248430944


 
  
 Aliexpress has them bundled with edse:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/The-official-launch-of-the-headset-packages-kz-bass-sound-HIFI-headphones-ED-Special-Edition-ed3/1380688_2043491269.html
  
 it says new ED3 too.


----------



## Charliemotta

gandroid said:


> Aliexpress has them bundled with edse:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/The-official-launch-of-the-headset-packages-kz-bass-sound-HIFI-headphones-ED-Special-Edition-ed3/1380688_2043491269.html
> 
> it says new ED3 too.


 
 Different cable than before.  1st one has silver cable.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> All these great Stuff coming out


which you find to be better sjp800 or kz es?


----------



## mochill

Kz es. But I haven't been using both .


----------



## rontant

Looks like nobody likes KZ Tuner (same asr KZ 95?) huh? AFAIK both CharlieMotta and Wokei have them but all I hear is silence...
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-TUNER-tuner-professional-grade-fever-musical-ear-headphones-heavy-low-quality-music-wire/2019538490.html


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> Looks like nobody likes KZ Tuner (same asr KZ 95?) huh? AFAIK both CharlieMotta and Wokei have them but all I hear is silence...
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-TUNER-tuner-professional-grade-fever-musical-ear-headphones-heavy-low-quality-music-wire/2019538490.html




Not great...better get the micro ring or cm9...imho


----------



## rafaelroxalot

This kz-dt3 is new? http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.HozkM2&id=41285987512&ns=1#detail


----------



## rontant

rafaelroxalot said:


> This kz-dt3 is new? http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.HozkM2&id=41285987512&ns=1#detail


 
  
 Looks like a new model. If not mistaken, this is the first dual-driver IEM from KZ. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## mochill

What type of dual driver? Dual dynamic or ???


----------



## peter123

rafaelroxalot said:


> This kz-dt3 is new? http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.HozkM2&id=41285987512&ns=1#detail




Those look amazing


----------



## robervaul

Does anyone know the twitter KZ ?​


----------



## altrunox

Schiit! I want this Kz dual, now!


----------



## The Dan of Steel

I think it's been mentioned that ED2 and EDSE may be the same? But on the Official KZ store on aliexpress http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688 there are both listings and the ED2 state "Factory Clearance" and are cheaper. Just curious really as I am very happy with the EDSE. Just curious really if anyone knows the difference. Thanks.


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> What type of dual driver? Dual dynamic or ???


 
  
 Yup, dual 8.2mm dynamic drivers.


----------



## rontant

altrunox said:


> Schiit! I want this Kz dual, now!


 
 The one at Aliexpress increased the price to USD54.98. Two weeks ago it was only USD11. I suggest you wait a lil while until more shops come in...


----------



## The Dan of Steel

rontant said:


> The one at Aliexpress increased the price to USD54.98. Two weeks ago it was only USD11. I suggest you wait a lil while until more shops come in...


 
 I just asked the store i referred to above when they would get it and he stated (I'll ask price too):
  
*Xiaofei Jin*: DT3 haven't shelves, and soon


----------



## Squalo

I want one! But which one should I get? EDSE, ED3, ED2 or ES?
  
 If I prefer a good punchier lower/sub bass, less midbass, good vocals? Anyone better suited?
  
 Quote:


the dan of steel said:


> I think it's been mentioned that ED2 and EDSE may be the same? But on the Official KZ store on aliexpress http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688 there are both listings and the ED2 state "Factory Clearance" and are cheaper. Just curious really as I am very happy with the EDSE. Just curious really if anyone knows the difference. Thanks.


 

 Me has that same question... What is the difference more than USD 2.20? I thought the difference could be the TRRS-plug... so i asked the seller what is the difference is it the plug? and he said "same plug"... not too comprehensible.. Wokei said it's the same.. but they wouldn't list two at different prices if that was the case!


----------



## mochill

Kzes^


----------



## Wokei

Very confusing indeed .....the last when me bought me EDSE or ED2 ..the seller told me its the same ...the only variant is the one with the mic or without mic ...but the listing link by Dan of Steel of that store is not helping ..there is even a listing of KZ EDSE for 7$ ..hahahhaaa


----------



## Squalo

mochill said:


> Kzes^


 
 I'll give that a shot mo! Wallet approves of another one or two in case... hah 
  


wokei said:


> Very confusing indeed .....the last when me bought me EDSE or ED2 ..the seller told me its the same ...the only variant is the one with the mic or without mic ...but the listing link by Dan of Steel of that store is not helping ..there is even a listing of KZ EDSE for 7$ ..hahahhaaa


 
 Me very confused indeed... Maybe people pay special edition price, no special edition exist, get standard edition ED2. Maybe tune driver... Or maybe Special Edition and ED2 means the same.. in reference to original ED. Much strange.


----------



## Wokei

squalo said:


> I'll give that a shot mo! Wallet approves of another one or two in case... hah
> 
> Me very confused indeed... Maybe people pay special edition price, no special edition exist, get standard edition ED2. Maybe tune driver... Or maybe Special Edition and ED2 means the same.. in reference to original ED. Much strange.




How special edition can 2$ can make a difference ..me imho think they are the same ...lol


----------



## altrunox

Maybe they have just a different tuning, or maybe the "Special" is more expensive because of the name, LOL, I`m not joking, people read "special" and think :
 "Oh my, they should be awesome!"


----------



## Squalo

wokei said:


> How special edition can 2$ can make a difference ..me imho think they are the same ...lol


 
 Well... You know cheap IEMs.. one model can sound great and the next sound like a 2 year old poked a fork through a pair of Beats by Dre.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

I have spoken with kz official store, and the kz dt3 will be available in 2 or 3 days on aliexpress


----------



## bhazard

rafaelroxalot said:


> I have spoken with kz official store, and the kz dt3 will be available in 2 or 3 days on aliexpress


 
 noice


----------



## rafaelroxalot

bhazard said:


> noice


you got the sjp800 right? What do you think?


----------



## mochill

To me sjp800 isn't as great as the kzes


----------



## mochill

And as natural sounding but flatter and less clarity and more intimate soundstage


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> And as natural sounding but flatter and less clarity and more intimate soundstage


so with kz es i can discard sjp800? Already ordered Es, now dt3 must be very cool


----------



## mochill

That impression was with stock tips , even with fx850 tips they are treble oriented but soundstage opens up abit


----------



## rafaelroxalot

mochill said:


> That impression was with stock tips , even with fx850 tips they are treble oriented but soundstage opens up abit


Right, thanks man


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Kz-ed3 out for delivery today, I am so happy that my stuff are arriving now, all with 30 to 60 days of shipping lol


----------



## mochill

No problem


----------



## robervaul

rafaelroxalot said:


> Kz-ed3 out for delivery today, I am so happy that my stuff are arriving now, all with 30 to 60 days of shipping lol


 
These are the old version ?​


----------



## rafaelroxalot

robervaul said:


> Thesearetheold version ?​


yep, i don't know whats new on the new version lol


----------



## slowpickr

I've been following this thread for quite a long time.  I don't recall anyone ever coming out and definitively picking a clear winner out of the KZ line which seems to be plenteous.  I do recall some love for the KZ ED Special Edition.  Would it be the best out of the bunch or are they all about the same with different flavors maybe?


----------



## Wokei

slowpickr said:


> I've been following this thread for quite a long time.  I don't recall anyone ever coming out and definitively picking a clear winner out of the KZ line which seems to be plenteous.  I do recall some love for the KZ ED Special Edition.  Would it be the best out of the bunch or are they all about the same with different flavors maybe?




This is me fav of all KZ model in no particular order ....EDSE , CKW1000 Pro (need amp), R3 , CM9 , Micro Ring and GR.

Others may not agree but its just preference....


----------



## rafaelroxalot

slowpickr said:


> I've been following this thread for quite a long time.  I don't recall anyone ever coming out and definitively picking a clear winner out of the KZ line which seems to be plenteous.  I do recall some love for the KZ ED Special Edition.  Would it be the best out of the bunch or are they all about the same with different flavors maybe?


mochill told that kz-es is better than special edition, and some days from now, kz will release the dt3 that have 2 drivers... Maybe a new winner?


----------



## The Dan of Steel

Now I'm just totally confused!!

Edit: Link on bottom leads to the standard KDSE.N/M


----------



## Endcode

Ordered a KZ-GR a little while back, it should come in tomorrow. I'm expecting great things c:


----------



## Gandroid

KZ DT3 is now available on Aliexpress:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688/search?SearchText=-+kz+dt3+-&minPrice=&maxPrice=&filterAllSearch=false&freeShipCountry=
  
 DT3 is $52
  
  
 Edit: Mistertao is cheaper ~15 only plus charges....but still cheaper.
  
 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/41305686406.html
  
 Edit2: 
 DT3 is cheaper than the new ED3 on taoboa. Thought the DT3 is higher end version.


----------



## flyski

That's a quite a difference. I thought it would be cheaper. Well if there will be no customers with this price, they will sure make it more reasonable.


----------



## altrunox

Too expensive, I would get it for something near US$20, US$54?! No thanks.
  
 And it`s kind of hard to me to buy something from MrTao, since they don`t accept paypal, I don`t have a international credit card, but price there is US$23 with shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Maybe they`ll do some promo after a while, maybe...


----------



## flyski

I think that based on questions they got concerning dt3, thought was that they will make fortune. Sorry, I wait for promo action. For the moment Vsd3s pleases my ears and t1e arrives today. Can wait a while.


----------



## Squalo

Trying to sell the DT3 for $52 when they are less then 100 RMB on taobao, like $16, is just dumb. Then they sell the ED3 international on aliexpress well under the price they want on taobao.
  
 No reason to expect the DT3 to be better than the single dynamics.. Flogging a dual dynamic for the sake of flogging a dual dynamic under 100 RMB.. could turn out to be a bad deal. Not saying it's not good.. could be. Someone has to be the guinea piggy.


----------



## flyski

Wow. Now there's a movement. Price spread on Ali is between 19 and 81 USD. Maaad.


----------



## Shluupag

I said **** it, in the name of science DT3 ordered. Will provide comparison of Special Ed, ES and DT3 when I have them all. This is missing the ED3, I guess, depending on how their products range and naming works, because don't make any sense to me.


----------



## flyski

Great. I'm waiting patiently for Your observations. Curious about es and dt3.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I got the KZ ES yesterday.
  
 Build quality is through the roof.
  
 I'm going to give it a good day of listening before posting initial impressions.


----------



## altrunox

shluupag said:


> I said **** it, in the name of science DT3 ordered. Will provide comparison of Special Ed, ES and DT3 when I have them all. This is missing the ED3, I guess, depending on how their products range and naming works, because don't make any sense to me.


 
  
 You're crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You could've bought a VSD3, B3 Pro, Tenores, KC06 or whatever...
 But good luck with it
  
 I'll wait for a 50% discount. Maybe we're guilty for this price, next time no one ask the seller if they'll sell the item soon on Ali.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Guys, calm down, this store is trustable, and for 19$ dt3 http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DT3-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/1992303253.html


----------



## altrunox

rafaelroxalot said:


> Guys, calm down, this store is trustable, and for 19$ dt3 http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DT3-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/1992303253.html


 
  
 OH BABY, NOW WE'RE TALKING!!!!  (Caps Off)
  
 Pulled the trigger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
Just the VSD5 this year, i said, just the VSD5, oh my...​  ​ *WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT A MINUTE!!!!*
  
The descriptions says ED3 not DT3! Better ask the seller before buying it.
  
OPS, the portuguese description was wrong, the english is right


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Maybe kz is going up for a next level? 2 drivers, hope so


----------



## robervaul

altrunox said:


> OH BABY, NOW WE'RE TALKING!!!!  (Caps Off)
> 
> Pulled the trigger
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-official-ear-headphones-new-smart-headset-phone-headset-bass-without-a-microphone-headset-kz-dt3/1380688_2045260260.html

 $15,00


----------



## rafaelroxalot

robervaul said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-official-ear-headphones-new-smart-headset-phone-headset-bass-without-a-microphone-headset-kz-dt3/1380688_2045260260.html
> 
> 
> $15,00


maybe is better waiting one day to see the prices going down and get the better deal


----------



## Gandroid

Wow...that's quite a change from $52 to $15.


----------



## Shluupag

altrunox said:


> You're crazy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well you are not first to say that... but they indeed were just $20, and it's more fun to experiment these than go for something already well regarded... and more rice for KZ to give to their slave army.


----------



## mochill

The $15 ones seems tempting


----------



## michele009

oh, come on! i'm waiting for EDSE and ES already and they pop out with a 15$ dual driver...the *K*nowledge *Z*ero pockets
   
Waiting for reviews


----------



## flyski

Wife is going to kill me but i'm temptred with es plus dt3 for 25. Arghhh


----------



## mochill

^DO IT


----------



## flyski

I see You want my daughter to be half orphan... =)
Iems are in shopping cart. They just wait for final click... so tempted.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Mochill doesn't care about your family lol
He cares about iems


----------



## mochill

I care about my wife


----------



## Hisoundfi

mochill said:


> I care about my wife


I care about her too... 

Jkjk bro, gotta mess with you


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I care about her too...
> 
> Jkjk bro, gotta mess with you




Bro ..how is Kz ES .....are they any better than EDSE.....thanks


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Bro ..how is Kz ES .....are they any better than EDSE.....thanks


Going off memory, I think the edse might be slightly better, but I have to have some time with these es before that is my final answer


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Going off memory, I think the edse might be slightly better, but I have to have some time with these es before that is my final answer




No worry ..thanks ......too many KZ models ...lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> No worry ..thanks ......too many KZ models ...lol


So true...


----------



## clee290

Hey everyone, for those who have tried multiple KZ IEMs, which would be the best for a basshead?


----------



## bhazard

Now if only they package the new ED3 and DT3 together.. I'm in.


----------



## Wokei

Take the GR or RX model...imho


----------



## bhazard

The DT3 is not a dual driver, just to avoid confusion.


----------



## clee290

wokei said:


> Take the GR or RX model...imho


 
 Thanks Wokei!


----------



## Hisoundfi

r3 would also work


----------



## clee290

hisoundfi said:


> r3 would also work


 
 Thanks! Just saw the KZ store has a GR+R3 bundle. May have to get that


----------



## rafaelroxalot

bhazard said:


> The DT3 is not a dual driver, just to avoid confusion.


not a dual driver?


----------



## flyski

To intesify.

NOT A DUAL DRIVER?


----------



## uncola

The driver, it is _NOT_ dual?! But I was told! I'm sueing baycode


----------



## Jjc27

Lol

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## SymphonyX7

rafaelroxalot said:


> not a dual driver?


 
 Doesn't appear to be a dual driver, although the terrible Chinese translation makes it appear it is. According to this http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5.w4002-218015963.43.M7THEV&id=41285987512, the DT3 has an 8.2 mm CCAW driver and an "N45 Grade 2 Sound Drive" (magnet?).

 I prefer browsing KZ's official Taobao store instead of their Aliexpress one. They actually provide some descriptions and tips as to what genres certain models are best at. Quoting their DT3 page on their Taobao store, translated with Google Translate:
  


> Quality performance and adapt style 1 double drive pronounce structure makes DT3 sound performance style tends IF, it is more suitable for the performance of the human voice, instrumental music.
> 2 thanks to good transient response, DT3 for playing HIFI vocals, European and American pop music, symphonies, dance and so on.
> 3. DT3 not good performance of modern Chinese pop music, online music.(Excluding Mandarin HIFI vocal yindie)
> Note  different headphones have their different styles of music performance, for their own interests, please choose their own favorite style headsets.)


----------



## robervaul

flyski said:


> To intesify.
> 
> NOT A DUAL DRIVER?


 


 2 in 1 , but not a dual driver. 46 silver multilayer (8,2 milímetros + n45)


----------



## robervaul

KZ Winch cable
*US $5.10 *

 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-Professional-grade-fever-lossless-sound-quality-headphone-extension-cord-LC-OFC-copper-crystals/1380688_1986722626.html
  
Someone sells cheaper?​


----------



## flyski

Sorry, but what is this N45?


----------



## robervaul

flyski said:


> Sorry, but what is this N45?


 
 polymer flexible diaphragm


----------



## Baycode

uncola said:


> The driver, it is _NOT_ dual?! But I was told! I'm sueing baycode




Sorry but couldn't understand what you mean? I need a clarification.


----------



## rontant

flyski said:


> Sorry, but what is this N45?




I think n45 refers to neodymium magnet.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Kz es has very good mids, full bodied and bouncy bass that is slow in decay, and a considerably hot top end so far. They really sizzle up top. This will be bothersome for some.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The top end reminds me of the sidy dm2 when I first got it. Right now it's splashy and hot and slightly distorted at 10 hours in. 

I'm hoping more play time will change this


----------



## Hisoundfi

I've heard of bass bleed, but this is...treble bleed???


----------



## Squalo

treble bleed??? What!?!?  I have that one in the mail! My last chinese turned out to be crap so these better deliver. :|
  
 Quote:


symphonyx7 said:


> DT3 has an 8.2 mm CCAW driver and an "N45 Grade 2 Sound Drive" (magnet?).


 
 Ah, so it turns out it's not a _2:nd_ driver, it's a _2:nd grade_ driver! Haha.


----------



## Hisoundfi

squalo said:


> Ah, so it turns out it's not a _2:nd_ driver, it's a _2:nd grade_ driver! Haha.


get the kz ed special edition


----------



## robervaul

My dream is to see KZ announcing an IEM hybrid until Christmas.









who knows kz company also follows this thread.


----------



## mochill

^+1


----------



## mochill

wooden housing as well  , plus 99.999% silver cable


----------



## robervaul

mochill said:


> wooden housing as well  , plus 99.999% silver cable


----------



## mochill

are those sidy :/


----------



## mochill

i would like ebony brich wooden housing with brass ring stabilizers for the drivers and dual balance armature with 99.999%,sliver cable and right aangled neutrik jack


----------



## uncola

Looks like n45 means the kz dt3 uses a powerful neodymium magnet, but I've never seen the grade listed for any other iem so it's hard to say how impressive n45 is.. apparently it goes from n30 to n50 so n45 sounds pretty high end   Grades of Neodymium The Neodymium magnets have a simple nomenclature. They all start with "N" which simply stands for "Neo" (industry simplification of Neodymium) and is followed by a two digit number. This number represents the maximum energy product in Mega-Gauss Oersteds (MGOe) where 1MGOe (cgs units) equals 7958kJ/m3 (SI units). The range available used to be N24 up to N52. The lower grades are no longer made and the range now starts at around N30 or N33. N50 is the highest readily available grade


----------



## robervaul

do you have plans to produce a hybrid IEM?

*kz earphone official flagship: *Not yet.


----------



## Milanche78

Hello, I found KZ earphones interesting, specially their price tag. I need a pair for my mobile phone with the microphone, but it looks like they do not offer those or only 1 model. Could you recommend a model for me and are there good sellers for KZ on aliexpress?


----------



## SymphonyX7

milanche78 said:


> Hello, I found KZ earphones interesting, specially their price tag. I need a pair for my mobile phone with the microphone, but it looks like they do not offer those or only 1 model. Could you recommend a model for me and are there good sellers for KZ on aliexpress?


 
 Actually, they offer models with a microphone on their official Aliexpress store. The problem is, their English translation isn't very good, so it's difficult to see if the item you see has a microphone. Usually, the microphone translates into "With wheat" or "Whether the microphone". If there's a 'Yes' next to that, it means it has a microphone.

 Compare the two KZ ES variants sold by their official store:

*With a microphone:* http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-es-of-new-products-in-ear-headphones-professional-grade-sound-quality-music-phone-earbud-headset/1380688_2036415484.html
*Without a microphone:* http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-es-of-new-products-in-ear-headphones-professional-grade-sound-quality-music-phone-headset-earbud/1380688_2036407544.html

 I would recommend you get the KZ GR instead, because it has two changeable nozzles so you can adjust the sound to your taste. The black nozzle emphasizes bass while the red nozzle emphasizes balance and clarity. However, their official store doesn't appear to sell the KZ GR with microphone variant alone. They're bundling the KZ GR and KZ ES, both of them being the variants with the microphone for $18. Check it here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Welcome-to-purchase-wholesale-kz-official-package-sales-gk-gr-and-kz-es-version-HIFI-headphones/1380688_2043507631.html


----------



## mebaali

Hi, a long time lurker of this thread here. I have got two queries to clear from Wokei and other resident experts of head-fi. 

1) There are quite of few no of sellers for these earphones, so which Aliexpress seller would you recommend to get KZ earphones from (or from whom did you get your KZ phones )? 

2) Which of these phones a) KZ ED special edition b) KZ ES, c) KZ-GR, d) newly launched DT3 according to you would be better suited for listening EDM and mostly Post-Rock music using a Samsung Galaxy S3 as the source? (BTW, from going through various responses here in this thread, I am leaning slightly towards KZ EDSE)

If possible kindly chip-in with your recommendations/suggestions. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Wokei

mebaali said:


> Hi, a long time lurker of this thread here. I have got two queries to clear from Wokei and other resident experts of head-fi.
> 
> 1) There are quite of few no of sellers for these earphones, so which Aliexpress seller would you recommend to get KZ earphones from (or from whom did you get your KZ phones )?
> 
> ...




Wokei ..reporting for duty ...not expert just fools who buy too many KZ IEM ...lol

Store that me bought from 
1) http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688
2) http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
3) http://www.aliexpress.com/store/615477

Me would recommend KZ EDSE and KZ GR ( 2 diff sound tuning with 2 nozzle ) - theybwould be good EDM and as for the rest ...me dont have it ..so no comment 

CHEERS


----------



## mebaali

Thank you so much for the heads up, Massa Wokei! 

Will heed your advice


----------



## Wokei

mebaali said:


> Thank you so much for the heads up, Massa Wokei!
> 
> Will heed your advice




Maybe you could get the KZ EDSE with the mic version ( the translation for mic is " with wheat or mic " fyi ...lol...so you could used it with yr S3....not sure about the GR though ...

Cheers


----------



## mebaali

wokei said:


> Maybe you could get the KZ EDSE with the mic version ( the translation for mic is " with wheat or mic " fyi ...lol...so you could used it with yr S3....not sure about the GR though ...
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers



 


My S3 is used mainly for listening to music these days (have got quite a few problems with it to use as working phone). Hence will try and order both EDSE without mic and KZ GR then.

Cheers!


----------



## xrM

I just placed an order for the KZ- EDSE, shall play with these while I wait for the long overdue VSD5/7. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Btw how do the KZ-ED3 compare? They look good on the store front page..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
*Edit*: Just realised the KZ-ED3=KZ-ED and KZ-EDSE=KZ-ED3SE?


----------



## Jjc27

so they are the same but different housing? 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## 1clearhead

By far, I'm very impressed with the EZ-ES using the medium comply/foams from Sidy.

Sometimes I forget they're not a BA + dynamic, they're just dynamic diaphragms.

Personally, they sound that good to me!


----------



## Wokei

xrm said:


> I just placed an order for the KZ- EDSE, shall play with these while I wait for the long overdue VSD5/7.
> 
> Btw how do the KZ-ED3 compare? They look good on the store front page..
> 
> ...




KZ ED1



KZ EDSE or also known as KZ ED2



KZ ED3



So not sure which model is KZ ED...?


----------



## xrM

wokei said:


> KZ ED1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Opp, got confused. They called it the kz-ed Special Edition, I only saw the kz-ed portion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Why are the ED3s cheaper than the EDSE/ED2 though?


----------



## Wokei

xrm said:


> Opp, got confused. They called it the kz-ed Special Edition, I only saw the kz-ed portion.  Why are the ED3s cheaper than the EDSE/ED2 though?




Cheaper...that me don't know...pricing for KZ is a bit wonky...lol...cheap but fantastic built quality with more than decent sound...get the GR model..imho


----------



## xrM

wokei said:


> Cheaper...that me don't know...pricing for KZ is a bit wonky...lol...cheap but fantastic built quality with more than decent sound...get the GR model..imho


 

 I'm torn between buying more dirt cheap KZs to try out or get a T1-E.


----------



## flyski

If it's not KZ GR, go for t1e. Hence i'm not familiar with es and dt3.


----------



## Wokei

xrm said:


> I'm torn between buying more dirt cheap KZs to try out or get a T1-E.




What kind of Sound Sig you looking for...and what KZ model do you have currently...


----------



## xrM

wokei said:


> What kind of Sound Sig you looking for...and what KZ model do you have currently...


 
 My EDSE is still on the way, I like something bassy, for pop and edm I guess?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Vivo xe800 vs GR07BE... 

I'm going to make this short. They are both great, but in the end the GR07BE is better IMHO. 

Build quality on the vivo xe800 cable is sketchy. The cable isn't of high quality. I like the housings but wish I could go over the ear with them without having to swap channels. 

The sound on the vivo xe800 is great, but the GR07BE is slightly better. 

Bass: vivo xe800 has a slightly boomier bass that is slower in attack and decay. It works great for some genres, but not all. The GR07BE bass is world class, extends down to the center of the earth, and is quick in attack and decay. Round one goes to GR07BE 

Mids: This is a tricky one. Mids are more forward and musical on the vivo xe800, creating more of a 3-d sense of imaging. However, the bass presentation combined with the mids causes them to have a slightly less sense of clarity. The GR07BE seems almost recessed when coming from the xe800, but is not "lacking" in terms of tone. 

Because the only knock I've ever had on the GR07BE has been imaging, I give a slight edge to the vivo xe800 for midrange. 

Treble- This comes down to preference. The vivo xe800 is smoother in its treble presentation. It has enough detail and clarity to be impressed. There were times when I was listening to them that I felt like treble could have been a hair sharper. 

Anyone who has experienced the GR07BE will probably agree with when I say that they are "perfectly sibilant", meaning that they aren't always hot up top, but it does show when tracks are recorded with sibilance. The GR07BE doesn't put a "bandaid" on sibilant recordings, which some might not like, but to my ears it sounds much more natural and revealing to my ears. 

Soundstage: Extensions on both ends is better on GR07BE. Width goes to the GR07BE. Mids are lusher with better imaging and great bass on the xe800.

Thid is a pretty close match up, but I give a slight edge to the GR07BE. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The XE800 seems to me like a gr07 driver with vsd1s-ish tuning. I really like it. It's PHENOMENAL for it's price


----------



## Wokei

xrm said:


> My EDSE is still on the way, I like something bassy, for pop and edm I guess?




In that case...Me would suggest KZ GR..imho very cheap alternative or T1E if budget allows.....while Hisoundfi suggestions are really top notch...Me have Vivo which me like very much and agree with some of his impression on them...as me don't have GR07...but it's legend status is proof that it's one of the best for the price point....at the end of the day..the upgrade from KZ to these two models are very distinct imho...the clarity detail and the quality bass is an upgrade...


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Vivo xe800 vs GR07BE...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Nice head to head impressions.


----------



## Wokei

Hisoundfi...Me gotta try out the gr07....seeing that you got 2 pairs...bro..n do you know the difference between the classic GR07 and the GR07 BE that you have...thanks bro


----------



## mebaali

Just placed an order for KZ-EDSE and KZ-ES combo. This is my first experience with aliexpress, hope this works out well 

http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6265124429.html


----------



## mochill

Placed an order for the dt3 as it seems no one is interested in it and my first experience with aliexpress using the kz flagship store . I have to wait at the most 17 days


----------



## sujitsky

mochill said:


> Placed an order for the dt3 as it seems no one is interested in it and my first experience with aliexpress using the kz flagship store . I have to wait at the most 17 days


 
 looking forward to your impressions! my KZ bundle took roughly 2 weeks to arrive from China to the US


----------



## bhazard

mochill said:


> Placed an order for the dt3 as it seems no one is interested in it and my first experience with aliexpress using the kz flagship store . I have to wait at the most 17 days


 
 I ordered it last week. Should see impressions pop up in a week or two.
  
 The Aliexpress store uses ePacket, which is nice and fast just like Penon uses.


----------



## 1clearhead

bhazard said:


> I ordered it last week. Should see impressions pop up in a week or two.
> 
> The Aliexpress store uses ePacket, which is nice and fast just like Penon uses.



 

Can't wait to hear how these pan out! Hopefully we'll hear some impressions, soon!


----------



## mochill

I used the EMS option


----------



## mochill

If the the description is correct then these will be awesome


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> If the the description is correct then these will be awesome



 

I hope so. Just the housing itself looks mean and very tough!


----------



## mochill

Plus using 64strand silver cable is awesome+


----------



## 1clearhead

I'll wait to hear from you guys. If it betters the KZ-ES, I'll jump on them for around 65 RMB ($9 to $10 dollars) here in China.


----------



## bhazard

mochill said:


> I used the EMS option


 
 It is not truly EMS. True EMS is 2-3 day express.
 .
 It uses ePacket (which is shipped via EMS), which is faster than normal 30 day China Post shipping for not much more money.


----------



## mochill

It's fine by me , I'm also waiting for my sidy dm3


----------



## rafaelroxalot

My kz special edition arrived, i liked very much, maybe more than vivo xe800 because of the harsh treble...


----------



## mochill

The ease are great , burn them in some (100hrs min.).


----------



## flyski

rafaelroxalot said:


> My kz special edition arrived, i liked very much, maybe more than vivo xe800 because of the harsh treble...



Booo. That's too bad. I don't like my edse and I have ordered xe800 last sunday. I hope my experience will be differen't.


----------



## mochill

^ why don't you like them my friend


----------



## flyski

I'm not the best in describing but fir me biggest minuses are huge chaos thats comes out of them, lack of details and marely controlled bass. I prefer kz gr with red filter better.


----------



## mochill

Did you burn them in enough


----------



## rafaelroxalot

flyski said:


> Booo. That's too bad. I don't like my edse and I have ordered xe800 last sunday. I hope my experience will be differen't.


Taste is very subjective, many liked a lot xe800, i think that the majority liked, i didn't saw anyone that said vivo was not good, i liked too, but i couldn't stand much with the treble, the kz ed2 special edition was smoother with the treble, i am waiting the Sony hybrid tips to see if vivo will be better... 
Kz ed2 special edition rocks  
Maybe I'm finding my sound signature... Good bass.. More than vivo but not basshead, good mids... And not too bright with treble... Harsh..


----------



## rafaelroxalot

flyski said:


> I'm not the best in describing but fir me biggest minuses are huge chaos thats comes out of them, lack of details and marely controlled bass. I prefer kz gr with red filter better.


 kz gr my second one by now and vivo the third... Lol... Maybe people will be angry with me because i don't no a lot about sound, i can't describe the best way but, sounds comfortable to my ears to long periods of listening... Maybe my dac sabre android hifmediy makes the treble more prominent on vivo..


----------



## slowpickr

Doesn't seem like a particular KZ model is out running the rest of the KZ pack.  Perhaps that will change when more reviews of the ES and DT3 start coming in.  In the end, they could all end up being about the same calibre with different flavors.  Just speculating.


----------



## 1clearhead

@bhazard.....or others that might want to share their thoughts.

I'm interested in purchasing the KZ-Micro's. 

Do they have a BA armature signature as you mentioned -"A micro driver (5.8mm) tuned to sound like a balanced armature. Plenty of bass."

I would like if you can give some more details on these. I'll promise (cross-my-heart), if it sounds convincing, I'll purchase them on taobao!


----------



## Milanche78

First of all thanks to SyphonyX7, I like your suggestions but I also see a lot recommendations fot KZ es special edition and I asked
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688?PID=6146845&src=ale&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fstore%2F1380688&cv=11032041&cn=null&tp1=ojok3444fgxm&tracelog=null&af=cj_6146845&vd=30
  
 if they have kz-es se with the mic and got the funny answer " its a secret", dont know what to do.


----------



## peter123

milanche78 said:


> First of all thanks to SyphonyX7, I like your suggestions but I also see a lot recommendations fot KZ es special edition and I asked
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688?PID=6146845&src=ale&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fstore%2F1380688&cv=11032041&cn=null&tp1=ojok3444fgxm&tracelog=null&af=cj_6146845&vd=30
> 
> if they have kz-es se with the mic and got the funny answer " its a secret", dont know what to do.




Lol, great answer from the seller


----------



## rafaelroxalot

peter123 said:


> Lol, great answer from the seller


they use google translator to talk in english, they don't know english...


----------



## peter123

rafaelroxalot said:


> they use google translator to talk in english, they don't know english...




Yep I know it's just typical that they never says they don't understand but rather send a nonsense answer


----------



## 1clearhead

1clearhead said:


> @bhazard.....or others that might want to share their thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Never mind.....I saw enough Chinese reviews to finally make my decision.

I'll wait to hear reviews on the 'DT3's'.


----------



## mochill

you should get the dt3 like me 1clearhead


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> you should get the dt3 like me 1clearhead



 

Don't tempt me......I'll start selling fortune cookies to make-up the lost of money! Hehe!


----------



## Milanche78

Is there a link for KZ ES se with microphone?


----------



## Arvan

I thought i was done with this budget IEM thing but .. i just ordered the ED2 and CM9... Thanks!


----------



## solcrystal

milanche78 said:


> Is there a link for KZ ES se with microphone?


 
  
 Hm... are you talking about 2 different models?  I know of the KZ -ES, and the KZ - ED SE, but not of the ES SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I found these:
KZ - ES with mic
KZ - SE with mic
Both in a discounted pack


----------



## Wokei

solcrystal said:


> Hm... are you talking about 2 different models?  I know of the KZ -ES, and the KZ - ED SE, but not of the ES SE
> 
> But I found these:
> KZ - ES with mic
> ...






KZ EDSE or KZ ED2 ...the same


----------



## HawkEye0701

Hey guys, I was thinking of buying KZ earphones for about the price of 15$-30$. I love vocal music and EDM (I know, not even in the same ball park maybe) I would love bass but not the overwhelming bass which would only just shake my bones, but I want a bass that is audible and that you can feel. I listen to many different songs. Bands I love include Maroon 5, Imagine Dragons, Linkin Park and Green Day to name a few. I also love Progressive House genre mainly when EDM is taken into consideration. I mainly listen on my PC. I don't need a mic and I don't think many KZ have them. Anyways please tell me about some great models. Shipping is free here in India when bought from  Aliexpress too! I have been deeply considering the Xiaomi Pistons 2 which are available for 25$ here in India. Also I only want IEMs / Canal-phones as I find easrbuds or whatever you call them uncomfortable. Thanks for your help guys. Appreciate it 

EDIT- Also I was thinking of buying 
www.aliexpress.com/item/oem-purchase-kz-es-and-ed-special-edition-headphone-ear-headphones-piston-lower-the-headset/2036915498.html - this combo 

Or maybe the 

www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1380688_1987244299.html - KZ-GR Because of it's multi-functionality.


----------



## rontant

Just look at the packaging. KZ seems trying to position KZ-DT3 a class higher than KZ-ES. 
  

 Left: KZ ES Right: KZ-DT3
  

 KZ-DT3. It even comes with a bi-lingual manual.
  

 KZ-ES.


----------



## flyski

Any first impresions about the sound from both?


----------



## mochill

yes sound impressions plz


----------



## mebaali

@rontant - I have already placed an order for KZ EDSE and KZ ES combo, will place another order (preferably a combo of DT3 and KZ GR) based on impressions on DT3 from headfiers. 

Kindly share your experience with DT3 so far. TIA


----------



## rontant

mochill said:


> yes sound impressions plz


 
  


flyski said:


> Any first impresions about the sound from both?


 
  
 Both my units only spent 20 hours in the burn-in pit and my ears are far from being "sophisticated", so I am not sure if it's fair to give any impression but anyway if you really want it, you have to take it with a large pinch of salt. Moreover, in the DT3 manual, it mentions 100-200 hours of burn-in requirement, so I guess the number should apply to ES as well.
  
 In a nutshell, ES emphasizes more on treble while DT3 on bass. So, if you like bass, choose DT3, if you like treble, choose ES. DT3 sounds like  L shape while ES ... an inverted L shape.  Am I making any sense? Personally if I have to choose, I would choose DT3 for I find the treble on ES is a bit too bright for my ears with many of the test tracks* used below:
  

Oye 2014 (Santana with Pitbull from Corazon album)
Umbria (Yello - Touch Yello) 
I can see the future (Incognito - No Time Like The Future) 
Freedom Jazz Dance (Alain Caron - Le Band) 
How was it for you? (Gare Du Nord - Lilywhite Soul)  
  
 Specifically on Oye 2014 (which recording is far from perfect), cymbals on ES were unbearable and sound artificial.  So playing tracks without cymbals or where cymbals are not dominant, ES is fine. For examples:
  

Hard to be soft (Paula Cole duet with Ivan Lins - Courage) 
Spanish Harlem (Rebecca Pidgeon - Chesky The Ultimate Disk)
If I could Sing You Blues (Sarah Kay - Chesky The Ultimate Disk)
Correnteza by Ana Caram from Chesky The Ultimate Disk)
  
 On Correnteza, which is purely accoustical (vocal with cello, guitar, shaker and African Tambour), DT3 rendered the African Tambour remarkably well, while the sound of this tambour on ES was barely audible. 
  
 So yes, ES and DT3 have different signatures. Choose depending on your taste of music.  My recommendation however is to buy both. Since both are very affordable, why not buy both?
  
  
  
 * Note: These are either 16-bit FLAC files or up-sampled 64 bit 320kbps MP3 files. 
  
 Source: LG G3 with Neutron app (volume at 45%-60%)
 Amp: SMSL SAP5 amp (volume set at max)


----------



## mebaali

@rontant - Hope these phones gets better with some more burn-in time. Thanks for the early impressions, mate!


----------



## rontant

Just a quick note before I go to bed...  I just realize my impression above might give a misunderstanding as if ES is an inferior IEM but I tell you: it is NOT. I'll probably can tell more tomorrow.


----------



## mebaali

rontant said:


> Just a quick note before I go to bed...  I just realize my impression above might give a misunderstanding as if ES is an inferior IEM but I tell you: it is NOT. I'll probably can tell more tomorrow.




My apologies in advance for bothering you with more queries, if you are still awake then could you shed some light on build quality of DT3 ? (especially on the wires used in comparison to KZ EDSE or any previous versions)


----------



## rontant

mebaali said:


> My apologies in advance for bothering you with more queries, if you are still awake then could you shed some light on build quality of DT3 ? (especially on the wires used in comparison to KZ EDSE or any previous versions)


 
 Apology is not necessary, my friend.   When it comes to KZ, one doesn't need to worry about build quality. I believe all KZ dungeon masters here can attest as well.  
 Off to bed now.


----------



## Hisoundfi

So far, of all the kids models I have, I prefer the kzedse and kzgr. 

I'm excited to try the dt3.

I would like to see kz come out with a true flagship though


----------



## mochill

kzes is was the flagship until dt3 came out , side note: Dm3 out for delivery .


----------



## nmatheis

Considering jumping on the KZ train. The KZ AliExpress store has a few packages right now. All have EDSE with a second pair - either ES, GR, or earbuds. What would y'all recommend as a good 2-for to introduce me to KZ?

Just saw they've got DT3 + GR package, too...


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> kzes is was the flagship until dt3 came out , side note: Dm3 out for delivery .



 

I would love to hear second impressions pass the 50 hour mark with the KZ-ES, KZ-DT3, plus the Sidy DM3.

This is getting exciting.......muaaaaahahaha!


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> I would like to see kz come out with a true flagship though




+1, I wouldn't even mind if it cost as much as $25


----------



## altrunox

peter123 said:


> +1, I wouldn't even mind if it cost as much as $25


 
  
 $25 hybrid


----------



## peter123

altrunox said:


> $25 hybrid




I'm in  (and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they make it happen).


----------



## HawkEye0701

Ummm...Guys can you help me out with my last post? I would really appreciate it. Thanks


----------



## 1clearhead

Wait for it........wait for it........*BAM!*
  
 KZ just added the  *KZ-RS1*
  


  
 Just when we thought we can wait for the next paycheck?
 They come out with these?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ......the agony!
  
 Click link to see.....
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.OtkFNV&id=40673779212&ns=1#detail


----------



## peter123

hawkeye0701 said:


> Hey guys, I was thinking of buying KZ earphones for about the price of 15$-30$. I love vocal music and EDM (I know, not even in the same ball park maybe) I would love bass but not the overwhelming bass which would only just shake my bones, but I want a bass that is audible and that you can feel. I listen to many different songs. Bands I love include Maroon 5, Imagine Dragons, Linkin Park and Green Day to name a few. I also love Progressive House genre mainly when EDM is taken into consideration. I mainly listen on my PC. I don't need a mic and I don't think many KZ have them. Anyways please tell me about some great models. Shipping is free here in India when bought from  Aliexpress too! I have been deeply considering the Xiaomi Pistons 2 which are available for 25$ here in India. Also I only want IEMs / Canal-phones as I find easrbuds or whatever you call them uncomfortable. Thanks for your help guys. Appreciate it
> 
> EDIT- Also I was thinking of buying
> www.aliexpress.com/item/oem-purchase-kz-es-and-ed-special-edition-headphone-ear-headphones-piston-lower-the-headset/2036915498.html - this combo
> ...




Although my es has not arrived yet I'd say go with the edse and es package. The edse itself is better that the Piston's in my opinion but they're pretty bassy (just like the Piston's) and the es is supposed to be more balanced so that way you're covered in more areas that just by the Piston's.

Just my 2c


----------



## Wokei

1clearhead said:


> Wait for it........wait for it........*[COLOR=FF0000]BAM![/COLOR]*
> 
> KZ just added the  *KZ-RS1*
> 
> ...




Sorry man...this came out few months back...KZ EDSE is better...lol



The housing for RS1 look similar to KZ A1(the model that got KZ recognised here in the Chinese thread early last year)


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> Sorry man...this came out few months back...KZ EDSE is better...lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...






 


Which one sounds better the KZ-RS1 or KZ-A1?


 


....It might even be different 'diaphragms' after checking both the KZ-RS1 and KZ-A1, woudn't you think?


----------



## Wokei

1clearhead said:


> Which one sounds better from the KZ-RS1 and KZ-A1?




A1 has very good bass vs RS1 balanced...but both are very good value in term of built quality and price point...imho better get KZ EDSE...better overall in term of bass response and clarity/detail....imho

Just saw yr edited post...the sound is definitely different...A1 in a nutshell...quite the basshead


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> A1 has very good bass vs RS1 balanced...but both are very good value in term of built quality and price point...imho better get KZ EDSE...better overall in term of bass response and clarity/detail....imho


 
  
 Good looking out!


----------



## Wokei

1clearhead iirc ..you like SM E30...then you should consider this KZ GK1 ...imho..sound sig quite similar and the fit is excellent....very balanced sound across the spectrum...no harsh peak and good bass texture...very suitable for long listening session


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> @1clearhead iirc ..you like SM E30...then you should consider this KZ GK1 ...imho..sound sig quite similar and the fit is excellent....very balanced sound across the spectrum...no harsh peak and good bass texture...very suitable for long listening session



 

Thanks for your consideration......I'll just stick to my KZ-ES for now, and wait for more reviews on the KZ-DT3's.


----------



## HawkEye0701

How are the DT3? Thanks for the help guys 
As I said earlier, I love the presence of bass but I don't like it when it gets overwhelming so YES or NO for the DT3? I am really looking to just get 1 because I really don't want 2 in the cheap bundles. Also what do you guys think. Will KZ headphones/earphones prove better than the extremely popular budget fi Xiaomi Pistons 2? If so please provide with awesome models. Thanks !


----------



## Wokei

hawkeye0701 said:


> How are the DT3? Thanks for the help guys
> As I said earlier, I love the presence of bass but I don't like it when it gets overwhelming so YES or NO for the DT3? I am really looking to just get 1 because I really don't want 2 in the cheap bundles. Also what do you guys think. Will KZ headphones/earphones prove better than the extremely popular budget fi Xiaomi Pistons 2? If so please provide with awesome models. Thanks !




Get KZ GR ....one iem with two sound sig .,,comes with two nozzle red and black for different sound ...


----------



## HawkEye0701

wokei said:


> Get KZ GR ....one iem with two sound sig .,,comes with two nozzle red and black for different sound ...


 I did mention that earlier. Anyways how do they sounds? It doesn't get much marks for its design and looks but I need it to perform to cover that up just like the other KZs do. Thankd


----------



## Wokei

hawkeye0701 said:


> I did mention that earlier. Anyways how do they sounds? It doesn't get much marks for its design and looks but I need it to perform to cover that up just like the other KZs do. Thankd




The sound will suit your music preference imho ....black nozzle will give you bass enhanced sig with more than decent clarity while red nozzle will give you a more balanced sound .....as far as looks and design ..its more of a plus comapred to the sound it produced ..as you mentioned ....you want or can only get one iem ...so this would be the logical path to take or buy ....for the price of less than 10$ ....it cant get any better than this ...cheers


----------



## Milanche78

I have found these to come with the mic
g.k-tuner for    7.20 g.k-r35        for   8.10   g.k-ed1  for 8.10
 kz-ed Special Edition for 9.90
kz-r95  for 9.00
kz-es  9.90
kz-rx 7.20
kz ed2 6.80
kz dt3  13
  
Which 1 would be the best allrounder for general use with the mobile phone? I guess kzed se and dt3, but i find a few cheaper alternatives to look better for me, + i do not want big earphones, they wont fit my ears.


----------



## robervaul

@mochill can you compare KZ ES, DT3 > Tenore , please ?


----------



## mochill

I don't have tenore, dt3 coming next week


----------



## rontant

rontant said:


> Both my units only spent 20 hours in the burn-in pit and my ears are far from being "sophisticated", so I am not sure if it's fair to give any impression but anyway if you really want it, you have to take it with a large pinch of salt. Moreover, in the DT3 manual, it mentions 100-200 hours of burn-in requirement, so I guess the number should apply to ES as well.
> 
> In a nutshell, ES emphasizes more on treble while DT3 on bass. So, if you like bass, choose DT3, if you like treble, choose ES. DT3 sounds like  L shape while ES ... an inverted L shape.  Am I making any sense? Personally if I have to choose, I would choose DT3 for I find the treble on ES is a bit too bright for my ears with many of the test tracks* used below:
> 
> ...


 
  
 KZ-ES:
  
 After 60+ hours of burn-in, the bass on ES has come out. It sounds warmer and no longer an inverted-L-shape but not really a V-shape either, so let's just say it is going to the direction of Altone 200. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The treble is not as bright as Altone's though which to me is a good thing. YMMV. I am listening to Paula Cole's album "Courage" (up sampled 64bits, 320kbps mp3 files) and I notice vocal sounds great now on ES.
  
 KZ-DT3:
  
 The  burn-in doesn't seem to have any noticeable effect on DT3 though. It still sounds as good as the DT3 I knew 60  hours ago. DT3 definitely sounds warmer than ES. The treble on DT3 is more polite than ES.
  
 Again, if I have to choose, I will still choose DT3 but it is indeed a tough choice. Back to the burn-in pit....


----------



## shuggs

@rontant- nice impressions, well done... Thanks!


----------



## 1clearhead

rontant said:


> KZ-ES:
> 
> After 60+ hours of burn-in, the bass on ES has come out. It sounds warmer and no longer an inverted-L-shape but not really a V-shape either, so let's just say it is going to the direction of Altone 200.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great review!


----------



## uncola

I found out the t1e has an n50 magnet so the n45 in the dt3 is less impressive but I'm still looking forward to my dt3 arriving


----------



## 1clearhead

I'm very satisfied with my KZ-ES, for now. I do like my treble very clear but not overly like DN-2000, or as some say like the Altones.


----------



## peter123

rontant said:


> KZ-ES:
> 
> After 60+ hours of burn-in, the bass on ES has come out. It sounds warmer and no longer an inverted-L-shape but not really a V-shape either, so let's just say it is going to the direction of Altone 200.
> 
> ...


 
 Nice impressions. I'm really looking forward to receive these. From you're description I'll probably enjoy the ES more than the DT3 but time will show.


----------



## Arvan

i think il order the DT3 and the ES...Found a bundle with the microphone versions of both for 22 usd.. 4 kzs in a couple of days... Just like when i found penonaudio for the first time xD


----------



## HawkEye0701

arvan said:


> i think il order the DT3 and the ES...Found a bundle with the microphone versions of both for 22 usd.. 4 kzs in a couple of days... Just like when i found penonaudio for the first time xD


 
 Where can you get one with microphone?


----------



## Arvan

hawkeye0701 said:


> Where can you get one with microphone?


 
 from here  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Package-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headphones-sound-bass-headset-phone-headset-with-a-microphone-version-kz-dt3/2045272833.html


----------



## HawkEye0701

arvan said:


> from here
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Package-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headphones-sound-bass-headset-phone-headset-with-a-microphone-version-kz-dt3/2045272833.html



 


Thanks! Looks cool, BTW can you provide with individual links to the DT3? And the ES? (I will try to look it up myself if I can find it lol
EDIT- Found the DT3s here
Anyways how do the DT3 sound? Can anyone do an in-depth review of their KZ. Everyone would love them, thanks!


----------



## Arvan

hawkeye0701 said:


> arvan said:
> 
> 
> > from here
> ...


 
 Look at the seller i linked to, from my understanding from previous posts its the official seller for KZ on aliexpress. You can brows all the items there.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Kzgr is the schiit. It's like having two different iems. One filter that sounds like the pistons, the other filter that sounds like kc06. 

You are covering a broad spectrum of tuning if you get the kzgr, and the kzedse. The kzedse is somewhere in between the two different tunings of the gr. If anyone wants to get some kz products, I recommend these two.


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> Kzgr is the schiit. It's like having two different iems. One filter that sounds like the pistons, the other filter that sounds like kc06.
> 
> You are covering a broad spectrum of tuning if you get the kzgr, and the kzedse. The kzedse is somewhere in between the two different tunings of the gr. If anyone wants to get some kz products, I recommend these two.


 
  
 Here's a question - would a person on a tight budget be better off spending around $25 for two KZ models or $10 more for one TTPOD T1-E?


----------



## peter123

hawkeye0701 said:


> arvan said:
> 
> 
> > from here
> ...




Not many, if anybody has heard the DT3 yet since it's new and shipping takes forever (at least it feels like that).


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> Here's a question - would a person on a tight budget be better off spending around $25 for two KZ models or $10 more for one TTPOD T1-E?


That depends on your situation and tuning preference. 

If I was asked if I would rather have the kzgr and the kzedse, or the ttpod t1e, I would first ask if I could have all of them lol, and if they said no and I have to pick one or the other, I would probably go with the two kz models because it's more three distinct sound signatures as compared to just one, even though the t1e is slightly better sounding than the kz models IMHO.


----------



## altrunox

I would go with the KZ because of the fitting.
 OK, I know that fitting is a personal thing and it`s not because I didn`t get a good fitting with the T1-E that no one else would get, althought I bet that due the "classical" shape of the KZ they are easier to fit for most people than the T1-E


----------



## Hisoundfi

One thing I will say, the t1e is an extremely addicting tuning. It's hard to not like them. I've had them since they were first released and I've never gotten tired of their sound. 

They make everything sound really good. 

So, if you are looking for something that plays everything well, go with the t1e. If you are looking for something that is tuned for 3 specific genres go with the gr and edse. 

Kzgr (red filter) great for rock and pop

Kzgr (black filter) bass cannons good for hip hop and edm 

Kzedse warm signature with forward mids good for acoustic and live music (pretty good all around actually) 

Hope this helps


----------



## rontant

peter123 said:


> Not many, if anybody has heard the DT3 yet since it's new and shipping takes forever (at least it feels like that).


 
  
 Peter, the entire China was shutdown from Oct 1 to 5 for their National day celebration.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> Peter, the entire China was shutdown from Oct 1 to 5 for their National day celebration.


Don't you mean five day celebration?


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> Don't you mean five day celebration?


 
 Yup. five days!  I guess that's why my KZ EDSE and GR are in the limbo somewhere.


----------



## Hisoundfi

They're worth the wait, you'll be the one celebrating when you hear them lol


----------



## peter123

rontant said:


> Peter, the entire China was shutdown from Oct 1 to 5 for their National day celebration.


 
 Yep I know, fortunately mine were marked as shipped before that. Might have still been sitting in a postoffice somewhere though (highly likely). I was refering to usual slow shipping time from Aliexpress sellers but then again every time you wait for something shipping feels slow


----------



## HawkEye0701

Well gotta agree, waiting for something you'd use everyday and being so damn excited about something being shipped is the longest of any kind of time period. For example, waiting for a shipment that'd take 30 days is like waiting for a whole life of yours! XD
Okay, thanks for your help guys. So from what I have understood till now is that KZGR are pretty good sounding and the KZ(SE?) have a very balanced signature. Not many have heard the DT3 but KZ is trying to keep the DT3 at the top as flagship? DT3 have a bassy sound signature? (V shaped?) And sound good. The Special Edition is bassy like the Pistons? Am I right? And if yes what would be the best bet? The GR? The Special Ed and the ES bundle ? The GR and the ES bundle? The DT3? 

The reason I hate all of the above is because they literally confused me what to buy, when I has almost decided on going with the little more expensive Pistons but then no one knows from where did these little monsters fell and made this already confused little fella so damn more confused, making a whole thread confused because of this confusion caused by the confused head of a little confused boy after getting confused because of confusing names of a newly confusing company. Am I right or Am I right?

Oh and I am literally sorry guys for asking this question too many times, I hope you don't mind


----------



## slowpickr

hawkeye0701 said:


> Well gotta agree, waiting for something you'd use everyday and being so damn excited about something being shipped is the longest of any kind of time period. For example, waiting for a shipment that'd take 30 days is like waiting for a whole life of yours! XD
> Okay, thanks for your help guys. So from what I have understood till now is that KZGR are pretty good sounding and the KZ(SE?) have a very balanced signature. Not many have heard the DT3 but KZ is trying to keep the DT3 at the top as flagship? DT3 have a bassy sound signature? (V shaped?) And sound good. The Special Edition is bassy like the Pistons? Am I right? And if yes what would be the best bet? The GR? The Special Ed and the ES bundle ? The GR and the ES bundle? The DT3?
> 
> The reason I hate all of the above is because they literally confused me what to buy, when I has almost decided on going with the little more expensive Pistons but then no one knows from where did these little monsters fell and made this already confused little fella so damn more confused, making a whole thread confused because of this confusion caused by the confused head of a little confused boy after getting confused because of confusing names of a newly confusing company. Am I right or Am I right?
> ...


 
  
 I think KZ's low pricing is a marketing scheme.  They want buyers to give up trying to figure out which ones would be best for them and just buy them all since they are low cost.  I'm considering getting 3 or 4 different kinds just to ensure the bases are covered.


----------



## HawkEye0701

slowpickr said:


> I think KZ's low pricing is a marketing scheme.  They want buyers to give up trying to figure out which ones would be best for them and just buy them all since they are low cost.  I'm considering getting 3 or 4 different kinds just to ensure the bases are covered.



 


O_|_O Well maybe but as far as I know Chinese brands always have low prices. It might be that the GR costs 5$ more than the Special Edition in manufacturing but still I don't think that they would really want to be in some loss but I also agree to you. They could have definitely have priced the GR at a much higher price than the normal ones so yes I do agree. Oh and if I were you, I'd just buy the GR if I wanted to cover all bases because you will cover most bases then. Anyways you never know what they are planning, coz they talkie in Chinese man!


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> I think KZ's low pricing is a marketing scheme.  They want buyers to give up trying to figure out which ones would be best for them and just buy them all since they are low cost.  I'm considering getting 3 or 4 different kinds just to ensure the bases are covered.


have you guys ever wondered if maybe this stuff is so cheap because of the lack of restrictions and product standards? 

Did you guys ever wonder if maybe toxic chemicals or materials were used in their production? 

Living in America there is always those horror stories about toys made with lead paint, or toxic plastic and on and on... 

I hope that's not the case because as Wokei describes it, I'm a kz fanboy lol


----------



## Charliemotta

That's not true...All of KZ products are 100% made from spent fuel rods from the nuclear power plants in Wisconsin.  So no worries..♫♫


----------



## Wokei

KZ is good...do you all know jelly fish have no legs....Cheers


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> That's not true...All of KZ products are 100% made from spent fuel rods from the nuclear power plants in Wisconsin.  So no worries..♫♫


lmao that's the post of the day


----------



## altrunox

or maybe they don't pay the workers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But the question of restrictions and standards is really interesting...


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> have you guys ever wondered if maybe this stuff is so cheap because of the lack of restrictions and product standards?
> 
> Did you guys ever wonder if maybe toxic chemicals or materials were used in their production?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, thanks to your comment above, I think I'll take any KZ's I purchase to a lab for HAZMAT analysis LOL.


----------



## recoilnd

Just received Aliexpress order from KZ Official store. Bought EDSE + ES and 2013 edition. Ordered on September 18th and received October 6th in USA (Arizona). ES is first up on burn in 14 hrs in and has already improved. Switched tips to the ones that come with Galaxy S4 oem headset. Definitely tip dependent and am really enjoying the sound. A little bit bright at first. Right tips bring bass to right levels. Only testing with metal genre for now but works very well. Will post pics and further impressions of each as they progress. Looking forward to buying DT3, GR, R3 and a few others.


----------



## rontant

Guys, please watch Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.


----------



## recoilnd

Thanks to everyone who shared info on these before. Definitely worth the price and more.


----------



## slowpickr

Which KZ model to date wins in the detail retrieval department?  Don't recall seeing any comparisons on this.  Thanks.


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> Which KZ model to date wins in the detail retrieval department?  Don't recall seeing any comparisons on this.  Thanks.


my vote is for kz ed3, followed by kz micro ring


----------



## SymphonyX7

slowpickr said:


> Which KZ model to date wins in the detail retrieval department?  Don't recall seeing any comparisons on this.  Thanks.


 
 I'll try to contribute some impressions once my other KZs (a GR and ANV) arrive. Problem is China seems to have a ridiculous week-long holiday and my order has been stalled. I may receive them on the last week of October at the earliest.
  
 I currently only have the ED Special Edition and ES. I have less than 20 hours of burn in on my ES, and I have to say they're phenomenal for the price when it comes to a balanced sound sig and detail retrieval. If I didn't know how cheap they were, I'd pay $50 for these no questions asked upon hearing them. I don't want to give a definitive verdict yet as they don't have enough burn in, but as they are right now, they're almost 80% as good as the Hifiman RE-400 and 70% the Havi B3 Pro.

 As for the EDSE, their detail retrieval is respectable considering it's a natural basshead IEM. But the EDSE is definitely better than other good value basshead IEMs such as the Pistons 2 and NE-700. I'd peg their detail retrieval level and overall sound (sans the slightly harsher treble of the VSD1) around the same as the Vsonic VSD1 with slightly more bass (I can't ascertain yet if bass is getting boomier or tighter, it depends on the track. I'll try to clarify soon). Also, I feel the EDSE is like the Ostry KC06A. Like 70% as good. Have to borrow my friend's KC06A for an A-B comparison.


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> my vote is for kz ed3, followed by kz micro ring


 
  
 Thanks for the response.  
  


symphonyx7 said:


> I'll try to contribute some impressions once my other KZs (a GR and ANV) arrive. Problem is China seems to have a ridiculous week-long holiday and my order has been stalled. I may receive them on the last week of October at the earliest.
> 
> I currently only have the ED Special Edition and ES. I have less than 20 hours of burn in on my ES, and I have to say they're phenomenal for the price when it comes to a balanced sound sig and detail retrieval. If I didn't know how cheap they were, I'd pay $50 for these no questions asked upon hearing them. I don't want to give a definitive verdict yet as they don't have enough burn in, but as they are right now, they're almost 80% as good as the Hifiman RE-400 and 70% the Havi B3 Pro.
> 
> As for the EDSE, their detail retrieval is respectable considering it's a natural basshead IEM. But the EDSE is definitely better than other good value basshead IEMs such as the Pistons 2 and NE-700. I'd peg their detail retrieval level and overall sound (sans the slightly harsher treble of the VSD1) around the same as the Vsonic VSD1 with slightly more bass (I can't ascertain yet if bass is getting boomier or tighter, it depends on the track. I'll try to clarify soon). Also, I feel the EDSE is like the Ostry KC06A. Like 70% as good. Have to borrow my friend's KC06A for an A-B comparison.


 
  
 I have the Pistons 2 and KC06A so your comments give me a real good idea of how the KZ's perform.  Looking forward to your future impressions on the other models as well.  LOVE the KC06A BTW.  IMO, it's the best all around IEM I've ever had (except for isolation).


----------



## 1clearhead

symphonyx7 said:


> I'll try to contribute some impressions once my other KZs (a GR and ANV) arrive. Problem is China seems to have a ridiculous week-long holiday and my order has been stalled. I may receive them on the last week of October at the earliest.
> 
> I currently only have the ED Special Edition and ES. I have less than 20 hours of burn in on my ES, and I have to say they're phenomenal for the price when it comes to a balanced sound sig and detail retrieval. If I didn't know how cheap they were, I'd pay $50 for these no questions asked upon hearing them. I don't want to give a definitive verdict yet as they don't have enough burn in, but as they are right now, they're almost 80% as good as the Hifiman RE-400 and 70% the Havi B3 Pro.
> 
> As for the EDSE, their detail retrieval is respectable considering it's a natural basshead IEM. But the EDSE is definitely better than other good value basshead IEMs such as the Pistons 2 and NE-700. I'd peg their detail retrieval level and overall sound (sans the slightly harsher treble of the VSD1) around the same as the Vsonic VSD1 with slightly more bass (I can't ascertain yet if bass is getting boomier or tighter, it depends on the track. I'll try to clarify soon). Also, I feel the EDSE is like the Ostry KC06A. Like 70% as good. Have to borrow my friend's KC06A for an A-B comparison.



 

KZ-ES are my personal favorite 'dynamics' right now. And the metal housing it sits in, incredibly heavy duty!


----------



## Squalo

hisoundfi said:


> have you guys ever wondered if maybe this stuff is so cheap because of the lack of restrictions and product standards?
> 
> Did you guys ever wonder if maybe toxic chemicals or materials were used in their production?
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, is likely much toxic... At least ED3 should be, as said in title; "*toxic heavy low-quality earbuds*"
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed3-Extreme-Silver-Line-Fever-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-level-transient-toxic-heavy-low-quality-earbuds/1380688_1989000488.html
  
 But I guess the rest is toxic to.


----------



## peter123

squalo said:


> Yes, is likely much toxic... At least ED3 should be, as said in title; "*toxic heavy low-quality earbuds*"
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed3-Extreme-Silver-Line-Fever-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-level-transient-toxic-heavy-low-quality-earbuds/1380688_1989000488.html
> 
> But I guess the rest is toxic to.




Lmao, I should have ordered them as well


----------



## Squalo

KZ ED Special Edition on offer at US $6.37
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1380688_1987244299.html
  
 If you're confused if the "ED2" and "SE" was the same... because the price was different.. might as well get this one.


----------



## robervaul

Citação: 





> Postado Originalmente por *Squalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> KZ ED Edição Especial em oferta em US $ 6,37
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Professional-In-Ear-Headphones-metal-bass-sound-enthusiast-pour-blood-work-year/1380688_1987244299.html
> ...


 

 US $ 6,30

  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-official-flagship-store-selling-cheap-cell-phone-headset-ear-headphones-sound-bass-HIFI/1380688_2042672476.html
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​


----------



## Milanche78

charliemotta said:


> Yes they are quite awesome I must admit, and that's right out of the box. For the others looking for this great iem, it also goes by the name "KZ-ED2" ...or "KZ - ED Special Edition Professional"...they are both one of the same.
> Highly recommended  ♫♫


 
 Is this correct, because ed2 are cheaper 20-30% ?


----------



## recoilnd

Anybody have a comparison between KZ-ES and KZ-ED3? Have the ES at around 30 hours and I'm really enjoying them for metal and electronic.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Kz es has harsher highs that get sloppy. 

Kz ed3 has clearer highs and is more balanced IMHO 

Maybe more time with the es will change my opinion but for now I would rather go with the ed3.


----------



## robervaul

@Hisoundfi , I have Tenore. Recently ordered KZ EDSE + ES. 
You could say your short opinion of KZ about Tenore, please?​ DT3 about Tenore too.

 Tks.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The tenore is flat tuning and a great all a rounder in terms of tuning. 

I'd rather listen to the kz edse because of the elevated bass and musicality. 

The kz es doesn't get a lot of play time. I wasn't impressed out of the box, and I honestly haven't spent enough time with them to draw a final conclusion. 

I really like the kz edse. It's my preferred tuning.


----------



## robervaul

I just received EDSE. 0 h burn in = 90% Tenore. I'm impressed how a thing as cheap can do.





KZ was more generous than I expected, by sending 1 YUAN in the box. lol 







Someone also received 1 YUAN in the box?

Thanks all for the recommendation. I really enjoyed.


----------



## fluxcore

Well, my ES set turned up today, so far my main observation is the noise floor is either noticeably higher than my EDSEs, or I suppose the signature might just make it far more obvious. Can't say I'm as impressed with them as the EDSE so far, but will give them some more time.


----------



## koreanzombie

Which KZ iem would you guys recommend if I like big bass quantity, similar tuning to the xiaomi pistons? And would they be an upgrade on the pistons?


----------



## robervaul

Citação: 





> Postado Originalmente por *koreanzombie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Que iem KZ que vocês recomendam, se eu gosto grande quantidade de graves, tuning semelhante aos pistões Xiaomi? E teria que ser um upgrade nos pistões?


 
 KZ-GR + KZ-EDSE


----------



## Hisoundfi

koreanzombie said:


> Which KZ iem would you guys recommend if I like big bass quantity, similar tuning to the xiaomi pistons? And would they be an upgrade on the pistons?


kz gr with black filters


----------



## bhazard

The GR and SE are the only KZ sets I really recommend. The rest all have something about them that I don't like.
  
 Tried the SE again last night, and it really does well for the super low price.


----------



## mochill

What's wrong with the es?


----------



## bhazard

mochill said:


> What's wrong with the es?


 
 way too much treble at times, sibilant


----------



## rafaelroxalot

koreanzombie said:


> Which KZ iem would you guys recommend if I like big bass quantity, similar tuning to the xiaomi pistons? And would they be an upgrade on the pistons?


i don't know pistons, but i think kz linear r3 has more bass than se and gr... Maybe gr with black filter has the same or less tha r3 need to compare after, i rwceived my r3 today


----------



## 1clearhead

Can anyone here tell me more about KZ-ED3?.....some details?
  
 I love the specs: 7 ~ 40500HZ


----------



## SymphonyX7

1clearhead said:


> Can anyone here tell me more about KZ-ED3?.....some details?
> 
> I love the specs: 7 ~ 40500HZ


 
 http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0


----------



## 1clearhead

symphonyx7 said:


> http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0


 
  
 I looked through the website.....very helpful!
  
 Thanks a million!


----------



## destrozer

symphonyx7 said:


> http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0


 
 That's some crazy price that guy is charging right there.


----------



## HawkEye0701

symphonyx7 said:


> http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0



 


Great link. Thanks a lot. According to him the GRs do a great job. They are seeking my attention now. Hmm...Why did KZ make so many models. O.o

Edit- Guys any "Reputable" link to a seller selling the CKW Pros? I see they are selling for 36$ IIRC. I think those are the bestest of IEMS from KZ.


----------



## SymphonyX7

hawkeye0701 said:


> symphonyx7 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0
> ...


 
 For the price, I'd rather get a TTPod T1E which is a dual dynamic driver IEM. The T1E goes as low as $36 on DX.com and $39 (36+3) on AliExpress. BTW, the CKW Pro seems to be phased out as they're not available on the official KZ Taobao page.


destrozer said:


> That's some crazy price that guy is charging right there.


 
 They must be THAT good then if he's putting a large margin on reselling the KZs. lol. I'm curious as to what he thinks of the EDSE and ES, which are the only ones I currently have atm.


----------



## Wokei

CKW Pro is available at other Aliexpress store for less than 20$ ...also the price that the guy is charging from that link...is over price...


----------



## slowpickr

wokei said:


> CKW Pro is available at other Aliexpress store for less than 20$ ...also the price that the guy is charging from that link...is over price...


 
  
 Oh Great Master Wokei,  I just searched Aliexpress for KZ CKW-Pro and the cheapest I see is $33.79 from Kevin International Trade Co.  Could you provide a link please?  Also, the DT3 doesn't seem to be discussed much.  Should we write it off?


----------



## HawkEye0701

symphonyx7 said:


> For the price, I'd rather get a TTPod T1E which is a dual dynamic driver IEM. The T1E goes as low as $36 on DX.com and $39 (36+3) on AliExpress. BTW, the CKW Pro seems to be phased out as they're not available on the official KZ Taobao page.
> They must be THAT good then if he's putting a large margin on reselling the KZs. lol. I'm curious as to what he thinks of the EDSE and ES, which are the only ones I currently have atm.



 

That's the problem. I have my budget *MAX* 30$. Can't go no higher. So...I believe I will be better off with a GR what say? Or if anyone can provide me with a link to TTpods nearly 30$ (till 32 it'll be fine) I'll be in your gratitude. Please, I need help thanks :/


----------



## Wokei

slowpickr said:


> Oh Great Master Wokei,  I just searched Aliexpress for KZ CKW-Pro and the cheapest I see is $33.79 from Kevin International Trade Co.  Could you provide a link please?  Also, the DT3 doesn't seem to be discussed much.  Should we write it off?




So sorry man ....the last me saw .lit was around that price ...me bought mine for about 26$ in July this year .....fwiw the kz ANV model looks exactly the same which me also have ......the sound of CKW Pro outta box was a dud until Charliemotta suggested to scrape off the felt material from the grill .....once that is done .....the sound is really good imho ....good bass texture with very forward vocal and detail n clarity also very good for its price ...mind you this need lotsa burn in ....imho it really need an amp to shine ..wee bit like Havi ....without an amp ..the sound is actually quite shy ...lol

About DT3 ..no comment as me dont have them ...EDITED...disregard previous comment ..got mixed up...sorry 

Cheers.


----------



## SymphonyX7

hawkeye0701 said:


> symphonyx7 said:
> 
> 
> > For the price, I'd rather get a TTPod T1E which is a dual dynamic driver IEM. The T1E goes as low as $36 on DX.com and $39 (36+3) on AliExpress. BTW, the CKW Pro seems to be phased out as they're not available on the official KZ Taobao page.
> ...


 
 Dude, you're taking forever to decide. lmao. Just get an EDSE + GR package which is $14.40. The EDSE will definitely sound better than those Pistons 2 you've been fawning over and the GR will give you a choice between basshead sound or clarity. You can always upgrade to the TTPod T1E in the future, though I'm pretty sure there'll be even better better dual driver IEMs available in the future at the same price point as the T1E.

 If I were in your shoes, I'd probably get the GR + ANV or EDSE/ED2 + ANV. Either choice will be under $20. I choose the ANV for diversity's sake, because it has big 14 mm drivers. Larger drivers tend to have superior 3D stereo imaging and that "big speaker" feel. i.e. Sony MDR-EX600 and Monoprice 8320.


----------



## HawkEye0701

symphonyx7 said:


> Dude, you're taking forever to decide. lmao. Just get an EDSE + GR package which is $14.40. The EDSE will definitely sound better than those Pistons 2 you've been fawning over and the GR will give you a choice between basshead sound or clarity. You can always upgrade to the TTPod T1E in the future, though I'm pretty sure there'll be even better better dual driver IEMs available in the future at the same price point as the T1E.
> 
> If I were in your shoes, I'd probably get the GR + ANV or EDSE/ED2 + ANV. Either choice will be under $20. I choose the ANV for diversity's sake, because it has big 14 mm drivers. Larger drivers tend to have superior 3D stereo imaging and that "big speaker" feel. i.e. Sony MDR-EX600 and Monoprice 8320.



 

I know  I feel I am asking this question far too often. I was thinking what if my mom allows me to buy TTPoD if I save up? That'll be great. Anyways which one is the ANV never heard of it.?


----------



## SymphonyX7

hawkeye0701 said:


> symphonyx7 said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, you're taking forever to decide. lmao. Just get an EDSE + GR package which is $14.40. The EDSE will definitely sound better than those Pistons 2 you've been fawning over and the GR will give you a choice between basshead sound or clarity. You can always upgrade to the TTPod T1E in the future, though I'm pretty sure there'll be even better better dual driver IEMs available in the future at the same price point as the T1E.
> ...


 
 The ANV is the updated version of the 2013/CKW Pro. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-anv-grade-fever-linear-equalizer-ear-ear-monitor-headphones-perfect-sound-dynamic-structure/1380688_1988984408.html

 Honestly, just buy what you can afford at the moment. The problem with the TTPod T1E is, if you don't like the sound signature, you'll be upset with your relatively expensive purchase. If you buy a pair of KZs, this is a lot less likely to happen, especially with the GR which is practically two IEMs in one.

 The conundrum lies in our preferences. None of us can guarantee satisfaction of a certain pair because of our varied tastes. For instance, I vastly prefer my ES to the EDSE, while other posters in the past few pages have indicated that they prefer the EDSE to the ES. Different strokes for different folks. Although I'll admit both the ES and EDSE are technically very accomplished for their low asking price, I simply prefer the ES. Plain and simple. Kinda like comparing a Porsche 911 Turbo to a Ferrari 458. They have identical performance, but very different characteristics. I prefer the 911 Turbo because it's actually the faster vehicle, but the 458 has a more spirited and exciting drive.


----------



## 1clearhead

symphonyx7 said:


> The ANV is the updated version of the 2013/CKW Pro. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-anv-grade-fever-linear-equalizer-ear-ear-monitor-headphones-perfect-sound-dynamic-structure/1380688_1988984408.html
> 
> Honestly, just buy what you can afford at the moment. The problem with the TTPod T1E is, if you don't like the sound signature, you'll be upset with your relatively expensive purchase. If you buy a pair of KZs, this is a lot less likely to happen, especially with the GR which is practically two IEMs in one.
> 
> The conundrum lies in our preferences. None of us can guarantee satisfaction of a certain pair because of our varied tastes. For instance, I vastly prefer my ES to the EDSE, while other posters have in the past few pages have indicated that they prefer the EDSE to the ES. Different strokes for different folks. Although I'll admit both the ES and EDSE are technically very accomplished for their low asking price, I simply prefer the ES. Plain and simple. Kinda of like comparing a Porsche 911 Turbo to a Ferrari 458. They have identical performance, but very different characteristics. I prefer the 911 Turbo because it's actually the faster vehicle, but the 458 has a more spirited and exciting drive.



 

+1 ....Well said! I take both cars!


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> way too much treble at times, sibilant


+1


----------



## mochill

Why don't I hear the sibilant?


----------



## Hisoundfi

mochill said:


> Why don't I hear the sibilant?


 it is grainy, splashy and harsh in comparison to the likes of the kzedse imo


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm hoping some "mo" burn in will help


----------



## slowpickr

Well, I just joined the KZ crowd.  Ordered the ANV, EDSE and K-GR.  Total was $24.86.  Now the wait begins.  Hope my credit card info isn't hacked.
  
 From the description on the EDSE I might be getting someone's blood work also.


----------



## Wokei

slowpickr said:


> Well, I just joined the KZ crowd.  Ordered the ANV, EDSE and K-GR.  Total was $24.86.  Now the wait begins.  Hope my credit card info isn't hacked.
> 
> From the description on the EDSE I might be getting someone's blood work also.:tongue_smile:




Good selection ...me bought what you just ordered for almost 45$ befoe all this bundle package ....go Team KZ


----------



## Shluupag

ES came, haven't broken in these in at all. Doesn't sound like it lacks much bass compared to EDSE, but it sounds less grumbling, less all over the place. Fuller and more refined spectrum of sound I would say. Can't say about other characteristics, as not an expert. I like these more, not so murky sound, but I'll see about harsh treble with different music, because that would get annoying fast.
  
 It came with 1 yuan bill for some reason, pretty cool! Never seen one, I think it has the Mao Zedong dude on it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 E: I guess I'm hearing V-type of signature on the EDSE, because it sounds like something crucial is missing when listening EDSE after ES, and bass comes off as overpowering.
  
 This could all be my mind playing around, considering the newness and I read some experiences prior trying these, so take with grain of salt.


----------



## robervaul

shluupag said:


> It came with 1 yuan bill for some reason, pretty cool! Never seen one, I think it has the Mao Zedong dude on it!


 

 Me too.

 Did anyone else also receive a 1 yuan bill in your package?​


----------



## Wokei

robervaul said:


> Me too.
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone else also receive a 1 yuan bill in your package?​




Me have a few of them yuan dollar...lol


----------



## The Dan of Steel

When I placed my first KZ order for the OMX and Micro Ring they sent me two yuans. I thought it was because they didn't send the actual rubber rings. I never received any more and I have bought a few more KZs since then. I use them as bookmarks now lol.


----------



## Milanche78

symphonyx7 said:


> http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0


 
  
I see this guy is selling extra tips too, are the KZ ones good or there are better alternatives on Ali, cheap ones of course.
  
   
  
  
 Quote:


robervaul said:


> Me too.
> 
> Did anyone else also receive a 1 yuan bill in your package?​


 
 haha looking forward to...


----------



## Charliemotta

I have 7 of them...$700 or best offer...♫


----------



## rafaelroxalot

I got one yuan yesterday when my kz r3 arrived


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> I have 7 of them...$700 or best offer...♫




How come you got 7 ...we bought from the same seller and we have almost the same model/quantity...boo hoo


----------



## robervaul

rafaelroxalot said:


> I got one yuan yesterday when my kz r3 arrived


 

 was this store Earphones and Headphones  ?
  
This store is distributing 1 Yuan. lol​


----------



## Charliemotta

CM says I'm special....♫


----------



## Hisoundfi

I thought they were Shrute bucks


----------



## Hisoundfi

In about 20 years we will have enough yuan singles to go to a Chinese gentleman's club.


----------



## Charliemotta

Yes and have that whiskey (forget the name) ...♫


----------



## Hisoundfi

Hong Thong


----------



## Charliemotta

It will really be aged by then..


----------



## recoilnd

Which tips are you guys using for EDSE and ES?


----------



## mochill

Stock tips


----------



## Hisoundfi

recoilnd said:


> Which tips are you guys using for EDSE and ES?


Sony hybrids for bassy sound, and Lunashops red/grey wide bore tips for more balanced sound.


----------



## clee290

hisoundfi said:


> Sony hybrids for bassy sound, and Lunashops red/grey wide bore tips for more balanced sound.


 

 Those Lunashops tips with the red core? Are they the same ones that come with some KZ IEMs?


----------



## Hisoundfi

clee290 said:


> Those Lunashops tips with the red core? Are they the same ones that come with some KZ IEMs?


they are similar to the tips that come with the kz iems, but they are a little bit differently shaped and softer silicone


----------



## clee290

hisoundfi said:


> they are similar to the tips that come with the kz iems, but they are a little bit differently shaped and softer silicone


 

 Ah nice, I may have to buy a few pairs one day.


----------



## nismo88

hisoundfi said:


> they are similar to the tips that come with the kz iems, but they are a little bit differently shaped and softer silicone


 
 I didn't know they are different.... Shall order some from Lunashops...


----------



## nismo88

Did a comparison between EDSE, ES & ED3 last night using my laptop and this is my summarised conclusion...  (end up with all 3 using Sony hybrid tips)(ES & ED3 burn in for 5 hours while EDSE had  >20 hours)
  
 EDSE would be a good IEM if you use it to listen to any kind of music.... it excel in most areas that has been mentioned by many head fiers before. I can pop in the EDSE and listen to them for hours and not get tired... Definitely a darn good value for money IEM.
  
 I actually prefer ES to the EDSE.  But this only happens when I listened to certain music genre.  The ES is more detailed as compared to the EDSE which is why it was mentioned the ES sound too bright at times.  But to me that can be a good thing when I listen to certain tracks (genre).... examples by Olivia Ong (some may not know her) or Michael Buble's Live, etc etc.... definitely not for typical EDM music...  it gets too sharp for my ears for some tracks...  So I guess the ES excel in certain type of music than the EDSE.  Having said that I like the reproduction of female vocal with the ES the most. I feel it is the most natural sounding...
  
 The ED3 is also more brighter sounding than the EDSE and opens up more details in a track but I just prefer the way ES do it than the ED3. However I am not saying that the ED3 is no good.  It is still a good iem to own for the price... it is just my own opinion.
  
 The bass is not shortage on the 3 IEMs too... EDSE had a tad more bass (more bass extension too) then the 2 but both the ES and ED3 had more than enough bass in my opinion when I played (Avicii、leona Lewis - Collide - Afrojack Remix 320kbps). 
  
 If you ask me.... my recommendation is to buy them all and enjoy them with different kinds of music if your wallet allows... Otherwise, like what I have learned here.... sorry about your wallet... 
  
 I am not a pro in writing reviews so pardon me if it is not good enough... and this is my own opinion of the above IEMs so do take it with a pinch of salt as always... thank you for reading..


----------



## Gandroid

@nismo88 Nice comparison. Have EDSE and use it for commute and I like the sound.
  
 ED3 - is that the new ED3?


----------



## nismo88

gandroid said:


> @nismo88 Nice comparison. Have EDSE and use it for commute and I like the sound.
> 
> ED3 - is that the new ED3?


 

 ED3 is not new.... I believe ES is newer than ED3...  personally I think ES is more balance and neutral than ED3... ED3 is too bright for me..


----------



## Gandroid

I think they do have two versions:
 old:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed3-Extreme-Silver-Line-Fever-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-level-transient-toxic-heavy-low-quality-earbuds/1380688_1989000488.html
  
 new:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Listing-Special-headset-ear-headphones-bass-headset-phone-headset-kz-ed3/1380688_2044254124.html


----------



## mochill

new one is an upgrade version


----------



## nismo88

gandroid said:


> I think they do have two versions:
> old:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed3-Extreme-Silver-Line-Fever-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-level-transient-toxic-heavy-low-quality-earbuds/1380688_1989000488.html
> ...


 

 Mine looked like the one below so I think its the new version....


----------



## bhazard

I have a ton of old KZ iems sitting around. I might just put them all into one box and sell them all at once.


----------



## solcrystal

mochill said:


> new one is an upgrade version


 
  
 Would you by chance know any of the differences between the two versions?   All I can tell is that the newer one looks like it uses the EDSE style of cable.


----------



## 1clearhead

nismo88 said:


> ED3 is not new.... I believe ES is newer than ED3...  personally I think ES is more balance and neutral than ED3... ED3 is too bright for me..



 

Thanks for sharing your opinion on these. Now, I know I'll stick with my ES (just my personal opinion).


----------



## Shluupag

Been listening to ES now and it has many, many hours less logged than the EDSE. Some group acappella music really showed some bothering characteristics with EDSE when A/Bing them. I think with EDM and such, EDSE signature blends in ok, but even for that I prefer ES. I get an ahhh feel changing to ES, EDSE sounds suffocated, ES opens it all up, more neutral sound I suppose. Reveals stuff EDSE makes sound thin or just not there. Something was bothering me with EDSE before, but only now I could put my finger on it having something to compare to. Again, I don't have the technical terms down, so I'll use more figurative speech...
  
 Depends on music and preference, I guess... but ES for me, definitely.


----------



## mochill

the edse is compressed sounding vs.sidy dgs100 plus volume is less . Midrange is foward but does have the microdetail of the dgs100 or air and transparency. It is less 3D and more intimate vs. Dgs100 , bass less textured and more treble extension is less and well but has a nice balance. Kzes is also better in balance and extension and soundstage


----------



## mochill

a small note is I didn't burn in the edse so maybe it gets better with a minimum of 300hrs , seeing it has the ie800 drivers


----------



## michele009

Today i got the EDSE and I'm waiting for the ES. EDSE sound very good to me. Still can't say much but i find them not fatiguing and wonderfully detailed for their price. Anyway, still listening!


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> the edse is compressed sounding vs.sidy dgs100 plus volume is less . Midrange is foward but does have the microdetail of the dgs100 or air and transparency. It is less 3D and more intimate vs. Dgs100 , bass less textured and more treble extension is less and well but has a nice balance. Kzes is also better in balance and extension and soundstage



 

Thank you for the details. It gives me a better idea on their different sound signatures.


----------



## gutom

I've been listening to the ES and EDSE for the past week and I feel they both excel in different areas. They complement one another very well. I think I prefer the EDSE a tad more...it has better better sub-bass and impact than the ES, but the ES has a little bit more clarity and treble extension. When I use the ES for edm, I feel like there's something missing in the bass dept. But the vocals are amazing.


----------



## mochill

the es bass is more textured and full with better low end detail, midrange if fuller and more weight on the instruments , treble extension is abit more with better separation and soundstage. The edse is slightly less bass textures and thinner midrange plus clarity and more intimate soundstage


----------



## Hisoundfi

mochill said:


> the es bass is more textured and full with better low end detail, midrange if fuller and more weight on the instruments , treble extension is abit more with better separation and soundstage. The edse is slightly less bass textures and thinner midrange plus clarity and more intimate soundstage


I respect your opinion and impressions friend, but I feel the opposite. Everything you described in regards to the es being superior I feel is the case with the edse.


----------



## mochill

I just tested them with muse-madness , a few minutes ago with stock tips


----------



## Stovokor

I have to wonder if I am either expecting too much, or hearing something of an entirely different quality than you guys, as I have the KZ EDSE/ED2....and well...it's not very good.
 Bloated bass, splashy/fatiguing treble which frequently has me reaching for the volume button, and what seems like a veil over the whole frequency bar the treble, which makes things sound a little unnatural (guitars especially) and slightly 'off' somehow. Build quality however is spectacular, as is the wire/jack, maybe I can cannibalise it for something else, as the EDSE is pretty much unusable as it is.


----------



## Hisoundfi

[@]Stovoker[/@]

Is this a straight out of the box impression?


----------



## Stovokor

hisoundfi said:


> Stovoker
> 
> Is this a straight out of the box impression?


 
  
 No, around 30hrs in, the only thing that has changed slightly is the bass quantity, everything else...not my cup of tea it seems.


----------



## gutom

I remember I didn't like them out of the box but after few hours of burn in they started to open up and wow me for the price I paid for them.


----------



## peter123

I'm positive I'll enjoy the ES more than the edse, can't wait for them to arrive...........


----------



## 1clearhead

gutom said:


> I remember I didn't like them out of the box but after few hours of burn in they started to open up and wow me for the price I paid for them.



 
+1


----------



## leobigfield

stovokor said:


> No, around 30hrs in, the only thing that has changed slightly is the bass quantity, everything else...not my cup of tea it seems.




Humm... That's interesting. Do you have another iem to make a comparison?


----------



## jayendran

Awesome IEMs. Do they make full sized (ove-ear) cans as well?


----------



## jayendran

solcrystal said:


> Hm... are you talking about 2 different models?  I know of the KZ -ES, and the KZ - ED SE, but not of the ES SE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just what I was looking for - the mic versions for use with the phone.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## SymphonyX7

jayendran said:


> Awesome IEMs. Do they make full sized (ove-ear) cans as well?


 
 They have one. It's called the LP and it uses a Vmoda M100 shell. It's on KZ's website: http://www.kzearphone.com/Product/7042651036.html. 
  
 There's also an updated version of the LP called the LP2, which looks almost exactly the same. They're kinda pricey though compared to their IEMs.


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

symphonyx7 said:


> http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0


 
 Thanks for posting that link. Looking for some inexpensive but impressive IEMs. Something that are pretty "fun" or neutral. My two main concerns are comfort, so would them to be small or possible angled nozzle? Along with being able to drive them, so low OHM and high sensitivity, right? As for what I listen to, I basically listen to everything, gaming movies, a lot of different music. My Narmoo's are to big and slightly harder to drive then I would like so looking for something else.
  
 Would the following be good contenders for what I mentioned?
  
 KZ R1
 KZ ED3
  
 Can't seem to find the OHM's and sensitivity for EDSE, etc.
  
 Quick question, how in the world do I order through other sites. XD I mean like the forwarding service.


----------



## recoilnd

http://m.aliexpress.com/search.htm?companyIds=230861845. 
Look here for all specs on each item.


----------



## recoilnd

It's weird, I just switched from over ear to cable down with EDSE and now I see what you guys were talking about with the bass. I kind of think I like the over ear sound more. Probably just my freakish ears.


----------



## altrunox

recoilnd said:


> It's weird, I just switched from over ear to cable down with EDSE and now I see what you guys were talking about with the bass. I kind of think I like the over ear sound more. Probably just my freakish ears.


 
 Probably better fitting.


----------



## Endcode

I have and love the KZ-GR, but I was wondering if there was any other iems from KZ that are better at detail retrieval and have better PRaT (I was looking at the GK-ANV, KZ-CM9, and the KZ-ES? Or am I better off getting a TTPOD T1?


----------



## crow1994

I have bought KZ Micro and it is the best KZ that I have ever heard (I have Ed2, ES, ED3, Gr, Tuner, ED1). Perfect vocal, good highs (it is not ES or ED2, that can hurt your ears sometimes), also they are trying to make 3d sound. It is hard to describe.


----------



## Wokei

crow1994 said:


> I have bought KZ Micro and it is the best KZ that I have ever heard (I have Ed2, ES, ED3, Gr, Tuner, ED1). Perfect vocal, good highs (it is not ES or ED2, that can hurt your ears sometimes), also they are trying to make 3d sound. It is hard to describe.




Agreed...the micro is very balanced sound...Very suitable for most genre of music imho...for the price less than 10$...Very impressive sound with good bass texture but not basshead level...Very good mid for vocal and the treble is not hot in comparison with KZ ED3...Cheers


----------



## Ultimatum

Hi, everybody, I'm new to this site.
 I have a question for you.
 I'm planning to buy new earphones and choosing between KD-ES and KD-EDSE(ED2) and maybe Razer Moray M100(I had them a year ago and I liked them).
 So help me, what's the best?
 I listen to music on Nokia Lumia 520(no equalizer).
 My playlist mostly consists of alternative/classic/funk/folk rock music(Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Rolling Stones, Cream, System of a Down, Coldplay, Kasabian, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Patti Smith, The Heavy, The Who etc.)


----------



## realfoxtrot

> Hi, everybody, I'm new to this site.
> I have a question for you.
> I'm planning to buy new earphones and choosing between KD-ES and KD-EDSE(ED2) and maybe Razer Moray M100(I had them a year ago and I liked them).


 
 IMO You should try KZ-GR (Over all KZ)


----------



## mochill

kz es


----------



## Milanche78

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-professional-5-8MM-extreme-micro-ring-ear-headphones-sound-quality-DIY-a-fever-HIFI/1460035_2050378049.html
  
 A new seller? Is he ok?
 I would buy micro ring, if they have a microphone, I might get 1 anyway.


----------



## Ultimatum

realfoxtrot said:


>


 

 Oh, thanks for responding!
 I've just read about GR's and I'm pretty impressed.
 Do I really technically get 2 earphones if I buy KZ-GR?


----------



## realfoxtrot

Got gr,ed se from here kz-gr balanced Pro ear earbud headphones bass vocal music enthusiast patent headphones
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-gr-balanced-Pro-ear-earbud-headphones-bass-vocal-music-enthusiast-patent-headphones/1987291707.html
(from AliExpress Android)

Gr comes with 2 different nosels black for standard bass, red for even more bass


----------



## Stovokor

leobigfield said:


> Humm... That's interesting. Do you have another iem to make a comparison?


 
  
  
 Yup, a fair few from bargain-basement JVC marshmallows to SH IE80, UE super fi 5 EB, Vsonic twins of VSD3/VSD3S etc, so covering a fair range of sound sigs and prices, but the KZ's are the worst and for some reason it doesn't correlate with what you guys are saying, despite having a good fit and seal...they sound incredibly veiled on everything bar treble. I don't think I have a dud pair...but something isn't right.


----------



## altrunox

stovokor said:


> Yup, a fair few from bargain-basement JVC marshmallows to SH IE80, UE super fi 5 EB, Vsonic twins of VSD3/VSD3S etc, so covering a fair range of sound sigs and prices, but the KZ's are the worst and for some reason it doesn't correlate with what you guys are saying, despite having a good fit and seal...they sound incredibly veiled on everything bar treble. I don't think I have a dud pair...but something isn't right.


 
  
 LOL, that notebook 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Stovokor

I think mine is a little bigger than yours though


----------



## leobigfield

I had an Envy some time ago but the 1st gen core i7 was getting old. Beautiful display and nice sturdy metal body. 

@Stovokor That's interesting to know. I was planning to buy some kz to try and give as Christmas gift to some frends but maybe i was expecting too much of them. Probably they are good at $8-10 but certainly not as good as $30 options we have nowadays. Do you have any recommendations for that price range ($10-15)?


----------



## robervaul

stovokor said:


> Yup, a fair few from bargain-basement JVC marshmallows to SH IE80, UE super fi 5 EB, Vsonic twins of VSD3/VSD3S etc, so covering a fair range of sound sigs and prices, but the KZ's are the worst and for some reason it doesn't correlate with what you guys are saying, despite having a good fit and seal...they sound incredibly veiled on everything bar treble. I don't think I have a dud pair...but something isn't right.


 
@Stovokor ,Wonderful collection !!! I saw you have the UE super fi 5 EB, I had one but somehow I lost it. I'd like one to replace mine. Do you have any suggestion? Currently, is there any one you know that is similar or better? Mainly, in the departament of bass. I still haven't found a replaced one with similar quality. I really liked its bass, after this one I have never heard anything like that.
  
 Thanks in advance !!


----------



## Milanche78

This is bs, before I have placed an order every 1 were glorified the KZs, and now 2 days after they're no good!


----------



## H20Fidelity

milanche78 said:


> This is bs, before I have placed an order every 1 were glorified the KZs, and now 2 days after they're no good!


 


 Welcome to Head-fi.


----------



## shuggs

milanche78 said:


> This is bs, before I have placed an order every 1 were glorified the KZs, and now 2 days after they're no good!


don't panic... try decaf


----------



## Shluupag

All I can say is EDSE not same as all of KZs...
  
 If you read last pages, people are talking about DT3, ES, Micro, GR...
  
 Personally I have no use for my EDSE after getting ES.
  
 But I don't want to give false hope and my experience is completely limited.


----------



## flyski

I have wrote some post before that for me EDSE was not that good. Kz is not bad (gr or r3 for instance) but EDSE is not my pair of wellingtons (just a local saying).


----------



## Jason-M

Hello all, another newbie who'd like some advice. So far I've only had the models JVC Fx40, stock S3, Yaoge 063, and now KZ EDSE
  
 I know this has been asked before just recently but which 4-5 models would you recommend for rock and metal? Just need to choose a number. When I received the EDSE I was a little disappointed and thought my Yaoges were definitely better. However I tried the only album I had closest to 'symphony' and I was just. Wowed. Vocals from all genres were definitely better, build quality excellent as others say. I'm no good with audiophile language, all I can say is that the guitars are what I care about the most, and for that the EDSE was not so good for rock music for me. This was out of the box of course, so two days after I'm not sure whether they were being 'burnt-in' or I was just appreciating them more, but yes they sound a lot better now.
  
 So now I've just narrowed it down to CKW Pro/CKW 1000/GK ANV (ANV looks like newer model of either of CKWs), CM9, GR and R3. Thinking of buying ES and old ED3 too. Is the Micro Ring worth $12.60 for someone who isn't a basshead? So many, but so little $$.


----------



## peter123

h20fidelity said:


> Welcome to Head-fi.


 
 LOL!


----------



## Stovokor

robervaul said:


> @Stovokor ,Wonderful collection !!! I saw you have the UE super fi 5 EB, I had one but somehow I lost it. I'd like one to replace mine. Do you have any suggestion? Currently, is there any one you know that is similar or better? Mainly, in the departament of bass. I still haven't found a replaced one with similar quality. I really liked its bass, after this one I have never heard anything like that.
> 
> Thanks in advance !!


 
  
 You have a pm


----------



## Hisoundfi

I really like my kzedse. My es has really harsh treble. 

Maybe it's a source thing? Idk, going off of what I hear, the kzedse is a mids forward smooth sounding iem with warm sound, solid bass, and formidable treble. I noticed the price on them is dropping significantly. Seems like there has been many mixed reviews on them since the price dropped to virtually free.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Just curious, to those who don't like the sound of the kzedse, what is it that you don't like about them?


----------



## Stovokor

hisoundfi said:


> Just curious, to those who don't like the sound of the kzedse, what is it that you don't like about them?


 
  
 As I described in my other post, 
  
  Bloated bass, splashy/fatiguing treble which frequently has me reaching for the volume button, and what seems like a veil over the whole frequency bar the treble, which makes things sound a little unnatural (guitars especially) and slightly 'off' somehow. Build quality however is spectacular, as is the wire/jack, maybe I can cannibalise it for something else, as the EDSE is pretty much unusable as it is.
  
 To add to that, around 55hrs in to them, they still sound distant and recessed in the mids, but the treble is still ear piercing. If anybody is in the UK and wants my pair to try and see what I mean, just ask...no loss to me.


----------



## Hisoundfi

stovokor said:


> As I described in my other post,


I'm smh because mine sound very mids forward. What are you using for a source? Are you using an equalizer? Did you try tip rolling, and maybe using wide bore tips? 

Just trying to help


----------



## Stovokor

No EQ, I have tried from my PC, rockboxed Clip Zip and my Samsung Galaxy Note 3. It's no big loss, I paid all of £4 for them, and worst that happens is I gift them or use the lovely wire for repairs if needed in the future


----------



## gutom

Maybe there's some QC issues going on...when I received my ES's, the housing was detached in two. I had to glue it back together.


----------



## Shluupag

Thinking I got same production run EDSE as Stovoker, can agree. But I also agree with what Hisoundfi can hear with ES... what doesn't sound right when you talk about EDSE and then comparing and preferring it to ES. With EDSE I hear overpowering bloaty ~subwhateverbass, then the veil Stovoker is talking about and harsh treble. ES fixes everything (again my only two IEMs, I really need to use some imagination here, I was ok with EDSE before getting ES, just things bothered, thought it's just how IEMs sound), exceeept does get similarly harsh with treble at times. This could annoy somebody, but it works with the overall sound of ES much better.
  
 With the consideration that fit for me is such that ES pop in -> good fit right away... EDSE is fiddle, fiddle -> good now -> argh they moved -> fiddle -> **** it -> back to ES. My frustration is starting to color my judgement.


----------



## 1clearhead

shluupag said:


> Thinking I got same production run EDSE as Stovoker, can agree. But I also agree with what Hisoundfi can hear with ES... what doesn't sound right when you talk about EDSE and then comparing and preferring it to ES. With EDSE I hear harsh treble, overpowering bloaty ~subwhateverbass, then the veil Stovoker is talking about. ES fixes everything (again my only two IEMs, I really need to use some imagination here, I was ok with EDSE before getting ES just something bothered, thought it's just how IEMs sound), exceeept does get similarly harsh with treble at times. This could annoy somebody, but it works with the overall sound of ES much better.
> 
> With the consideration that fit for me is such that ES pop in -> good fit right away... EDSE is fiddle, fiddle -> good now -> argh they moved -> fiddle -> **** it -> back to ES. My frustration is starting to color my judgement.


 
  
 My KZ-ES works incredibly well with the 'round wide-bore foam tips'. It settles the spashy treble and makes them sound very fine and vivid.


----------



## Shluupag

Thanks for the tip.


----------



## mochill

the thing I don't like about the kz edse is the lack of treble extension and slightly smaller soundstage versus the es


----------



## peter123

My main grip with the kdse is the bloated bass. I actually enjoy the rest quite a bit so it's a shame with that overwhelming bass bloat.

Edit: For the price it's still a great performer, just that it's not my prefered tuning


----------



## Leo888

Seems like there are issues across the highs, mids and lows from different ears with the EDSE. Guess preference plays a part and a couple that may have a production issues here. 

Generally,which out of all the KZ models do you guys feels offers the best value. Need to stock up some as Christmas gifts and would appreciate some thoughts here. Also, hoping to keep to one model if possible. Just needed about 10 pairs while personally would pick up the SE and ES.

Thanks.


----------



## flyski

My summary of KZ EDSE: No soundstage. Bloated bass. No separation. Total chaos. Recessed treble. Source: sgs4, sgs, s:flo2


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> the thing I don't like about the kz edse is the lack of treble extension and slightly smaller soundstage versus the es


 
  
 +1


----------



## nismo88

1clearhead said:


> My KZ-ES works incredibly well with the 'round wide-bore foam tips'. It settles the spashy treble and makes them sound very fine and vivid.


 

 I tried different tips and finally settled for foam tips and its exactly like what you said.... the treble is not so bright and it sounds so much better now... agree that sound stage wider than edse...


----------



## SymphonyX7

flyski said:


> My summary of KZ EDSE: No soundstage. Bloated bass. No separation. Total chaos. Recessed treble. Source: sgs4, sgs, s:flo2


 
 Exactly why I don't like it. My friends who own Audio Technica headsets, particularly the M50 and WS-series, seem to love it though.


----------



## nihontoman

I have a question about dt3 - they advertise as having dual unit driver, what does that mean though? I'm pretty sure there's no dual dynamic thing going on, but what else could that mean? Any ideas? Also, which is the best kz iem ever? In terms of sound disregarding the preferences in signature)


----------



## mochill

guessing dual membrane diaphragm


----------



## Ira Delphic

1clearhead said:


> symphonyx7 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll try to contribute some impressions once my other KZs (a GR and ANV) arrive. Problem is China seems to have a ridiculous week-long holiday and my order has been stalled. I may receive them on the last week of October at the earliest....
> ...


 
  
 I just ordered from an Aliexpress seller - not the KZ store, for $8.70 shipped. I'm skeptical to say the least but will keep try to keep an open mind when I test them. I'll post in 30 days or so when the China Post shipment arrives.


----------



## bhazard

Well well. If this is an upgrade over the LP I have, I want.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/GK-LPS-music-headphones-foldable-headset-computer-headset-high-end-mobile-computer-headset-comfortable-to-wear/1380688_2055043657.html


----------



## Milanche78

I just ordered these
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Professional-5-8MM-the-limit-Fretting-circle-Ear-Headphones-music-earphone-apply-to-MP3-phone/1460035_2049370260.html
  
 The seller is new, but offered a discount and a free box, hope for the best.


----------



## Ira Delphic

milanche78 said:


> I just ordered these
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Professional-5-8MM-the-limit-Fretting-circle-Ear-Headphones-music-earphone-apply-to-MP3-phone/1460035_2049370260.html
> 
> The seller is new, but offered a discount and a free box, hope for the best.


 
  
 I think it's odd that the model - "Micro Ring" isn't mentioned in the listing, but most listings on Aliexpress appear to be derived from Google Translate.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

Has anyone who has ordered the micro ring, actually gotten the ring?


----------



## bhazard

the dan of steel said:


> Has anyone who has ordered the micro ring, actually gotten the ring?


 
 They removed it in the newer version I believe.


----------



## 1clearhead

bhazard said:


> Well well. If this is an upgrade over the LP I have, I want.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/GK-LPS-music-headphones-foldable-headset-computer-headset-high-end-mobile-computer-headset-comfortable-to-wear/1380688_2055043657.html


 
  
 Nice!


----------



## 1clearhead

nismo88 said:


> I tried different tips and finally settled for foam tips and its exactly like what you said.... the treble is not so bright and it sounds so much better now... agree that sound stage wider than edse...


----------



## Jjc27

1clearhead said:


> bhazard said:
> 
> 
> > Well well. If this is an upgrade over the LP I have, I want.
> ...



How is the lp sound? I've been wanting to get them for a while. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ira Delphic

bhazard said:


> They removed it in the newer version I believe.


 
  
 What was that ring for anyway? Just aesthetics?


----------



## gutom

I guess seal is really important for the ES's. I finally decided to put foam tips on them and the bass tightened up and the sound stage and separation improved. I'm able to enjoy the ES's. I still really enjoy the EDSE's mids


----------



## mochill

The rings are for better fitting


----------



## The Dan of Steel

mochill said:


> The rings are for better fitting


 
 Yes I think they were for a more secure fit. As I had ordered them hoping to use them for running. They are really light though and no real issues anyway I was just curious since a lot of the pictures show the ring. I even asked Audio Technica if they sold them seperately but they don't.


----------



## Ira Delphic

So the micro ring without the ring - what do the marketing wizards at KZ call it now?
  
 Heck, I'm going to get a pair for $12. Um.. never mind https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.aliexpress.com


----------



## gutom

ira delphic said:


> So the micro ring without the ring - what do the marketing wizards at KZ call it now?
> 
> Heck, I'm going to get a pair for $12. Um.. never mind https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.aliexpress.com




I've had a good experience from the KZ flagship store. They seem to have the best prices and the seller was really helpful. It really boils down to the seller.


----------



## peter123

The micro ring design was originally a copy of the ath-ckn series design. My ckn70 looks just the same (only differnce is the color).


----------



## uncola

I received the DT3 yesterday..  I paid $15 for them so I'm not sure what I was expecting.. but the sound is decent and the bass is pretty strong.  They really don't compare to my t1-e or havi b3 pro1.


----------



## bhazard

In honor of the -LPS model releasing, I'll be selling my KZ-LP for a good price. The case and cables alone will be worth the price.


----------



## altrunox

bhazard said:


> In honor of the -LPS model releasing, I'll be selling my KZ-LP for a good price. The case and cables alone will be worth the price.


 
 So will you get the LPS? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Asked the seller about the LPS:
  
br1046475554(2014-10-15 22:40:23):
 does it have acessories like the KZ LP?
  
cn1510805941(2014-10-15 22:42:11):
 The sound quality and the material better than before.

  
br1046475554(2014-10-15 22:42:39):
 and have this case too?
  
br1046475554(2014-10-15 22:42:42):
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/32/900x900px-LL-32302743_image.jpeg
  
cn1510805941(2014-10-15 22:46:28):
 Are you referring to the headphone storage box packaging it?
  
br1046475554(2014-10-15 22:47:38):
 yes
   

 ​cn1510805941(2014-10-15 22:48:35):


 We have.


----------



## rontant

gutom said:


> I've had a good experience from the KZ flagship store. They seem to have the best prices and the seller was really helpful. It really boils down to the seller.


 
  
 Some models are cheaper elsewhere.


----------



## bhazard

altrunox said:


> So will you get the LPS?


 
 Already placed the order


----------



## rontant

Finally, the three sisters arrived today....
  
 They sound good out of the box. I really love the elegant look of ANV.


----------



## Baycode

*KZ ES Initial Impressions:*
  
 Received my KZ ES (THe Acme) today. My first KZ iem.
  
 Box was like jumped from WWII, very cheap old looking materials on cardboard box and design is like a very huge matchbox. 
  
 The iem housing is built like a tank. Heavy and quality material... I am impressed... I read that its made of copper. Cable is is also fairly good quality, also soft to touch. No chin slider...
  
 OK now on sound: Sound is balanced. Soundstage is average. But nothing special on soundstage. Separation and imaging is below average IMO. Lacks some airiness... Although bass and midbass is present, lacks some subbass presence. Also, I was hoping good highs but its not delivering that... Mids detailing is average-below average and mid highs are slightly recessed. Sound quality is no where near the Tenore or Havi B3 Pro 1 level... It's a good purchase around 8 USD. But since I have some superior iem's I couldn't get pleasure from it. I will burn it for 50-100 hours and if nothing changes give it as a gift to a friend...


----------



## RedJohn456

Anyone have any experience with the KZ IE80?
  
 I was checking out this link: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Hot-Sale-Original-Quality-KZ-IE80-Noise-Cancelling-HiFi-Deep-Bass-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Stereo-Music/1213684_1804092013.html
  
 It comes to about $51 CAD. Is it worth the asking price?


----------



## Shluupag

Postman brought DT3... darker and bass is the first apparent difference to ES. Kinda fatiguing in IEM for me, but someone might love it... ES remains my favorite of these three (EDSE, DT3). Can't bother to muster some fancy descriptive words, it just is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Others gave good descriptions already.
  
 But yeah, keep in mind these cost ~10 dollars...


----------



## Shawn71

baycode said:


> [COLOR=800080]*KZ ES Initial Impressions:*[/COLOR]
> 
> Received my KZ ES (THe Acme) today. My first KZ iem.
> 
> ...




why no seperate thread started this time for KZ? especially title ending by "by baycode"...jk......


----------



## Baycode

That's sure a ....jk... Shawn71


----------



## 1clearhead

baycode said:


> *KZ ES Initial Impressions:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
Initially, that's the same way I depicted them out the box. They get way better after a good burn-in. But, try swapping the tips with round wide-bore foam tips and you'll definitely hear a big difference -Nicely balanced, airy and lively vocals, and overall good soundstage.

Hope it works for you.....and I agree with you, they are built like a tank!


----------



## koreanzombie

rontant said:


> Finally, the three sisters arrived today....
> 
> They sound good out of the box. I really love the elegant look of ANV.


 
  
 Hi yeah, im interested in those ANV's, I think they might make a good pair of gym headphones. Hows the fit, Isolation and comfort? And ofcourse hows the sound and what type of sound signiture? Thanks.


----------



## mochill

kz has a ne iem the platinum limited edition which I ordered today and will have it in two weeks


----------



## mochill

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-Platinum-Limited-Edition-ear-headphones-bass-headphones-music-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Global-Limited-first-999/1380688_32214111177.html


----------



## rontant

koreanzombie said:


> Hi yeah, im interested in those ANV's, I think they might make a good pair of gym headphones. Hows the fit, Isolation and comfort? And ofcourse hows the sound and what type of sound signiture? Thanks.




I'd say the fit of ANV is below average and certainly I wouldn't recommend them for gym. EDSE might be a better choice for gym.


----------



## BluePhoenixHD

Looking for some inexpensive but impressive IEMs. Something that are pretty "fun" or neutral. My two main concerns are comfort, so would them to be small or possible angled nozzle? Along with being able to drive them, so low OHM and high sensitivity, right? As for what I listen to, I basically listen to everything, gaming movies, a lot of different music. My Narmoo's are to big and slightly harder to drive then I would like so looking for something else. I will literally just plug it into my IO on the back of my computer, so no amp or dac of any sort. Although, trying to find one.
  
 Would the following be good contenders for what I mentioned?
  
 KZ R1
 KZ ED3
  
 Can't seem to find the OHM's and sensitivity for EDSE, etc.

  
_Posted this earlier in the thread but waited three or four days, so not to spam. =D_


----------



## mochill

Kz es


----------



## BigGearHunter

hisoundfi said:


> I thought they were Shrute bucks



:etysmile: it takes a The Office fan to appreciate that joke. 

On a more relevant note, I'm gonna wait patiently for my bundle of ES and EDSE earphones. I've gone through the Chinese IEM thread and KZ stood out. I pulled the trigger because of the recommendation from SymphonyX7. It should be about 3 more weeks or so before I receive them, but I'm already itching to get the micro rings, ir3 and gr models


----------



## mochill

Not getting the PLE???


----------



## BigGearHunter

mochill said:


> Not getting the PLE???



Pardon my ignorance, which one is the PLE?


----------



## Jjc27

I couldn't resist and ordered the kz-lps and a spare cable Next month I'll order the platinum. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## mochill

PLE- PLATINUM LIMITED EDITION


----------



## BigGearHunter

mochill said:


> PLE- PLATINUM LIMITED EDITION



Oh, gotcha. No, I'll wait until I get my first 2 pairs to see if KZ is as good as I'm thinking it is. Plus, you guys will have gotten them by then, so we'll see if the price tag is justified


----------



## koreanzombie

hisoundfi said:


> kz gr with black filters




The kz se sounds very good, it already satisfys my bass needs. It hits hard and has a lot of quantity. The gr with the black filters sounds pretty bad to be honest, with red filters it already has a lot of bass a touch more than the se. Also I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but these two kz iems have the worse driver flex I have ever encountered.


----------



## mul1d

Just about to buy a kz iem, which one is the best for vocals/ jazz,, not a bass head


Thansk


----------



## Shluupag

Out of my EDSE, ES and DT3, definitely ES for you preferences, but I have only those three. I think particularly a cappella, jazz sort of thing sounded nicer with ES compared to other two... both have overpowering bass. Micro ring and couple others are also recommended here.
  
 Mandatory warnings:
 -take with grain of salt
 -set expectations for 10 dollar China IEM as they are
 -there's probably over-hype for these, popularity is driven by price


----------



## altrunox

LPS for US$32.20, and there`s also a US$2 coupom, looking for some impressions before anything...
  
 http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/GK-LPS-music-headphones-foldable-headset-computer-headset-high-end-mobile-computer-headset-comfortable-to-wear/2055043657.html


----------



## clee290

The LPS are on-ears, right?


----------



## bhazard

Yup. Great price. The cables and case alone are worth $30.
  
 All of the KZ aliexpress store is 30% off right now + coupons.


----------



## leobigfield

Does anyone can compare the KZ's to the Philips SHE3590, Huawei Honor and others ~$10 options? Need some advice on building my stock of Christmas gifts


----------



## BigGearHunter

Okay, it's official: I'm going nuts for KZ. I've just ordered nearly every IEM model they had, these will likely be my last purchase until next year. It's too much.


----------



## SymphonyX7

leobigfield said:


> Does anyone can compare the KZ's to the Philips SHE3590, Huawei Honor and others ~$10 options? Need some advice on building my stock of Christmas gifts


 

 Against my SHE3580 (or 3590) with equalizer settings to balance out the spectrum, this is how it plays out compared to the ES and ED Special Edition. I won't compare it stock, since the SHE3590 is sounds just above average without any EQ. The SHE3590 being receptive to EQing is what makes it special, imo.

*Extension*
 Sub-bass: EDSE > 3590 > ES
 Mid-bass: 3590 > ES > EDSE
 Mids: ES > 3590 > EDSE
 Treble: ES > 3590 > EDSE
  
*Detail retrieval*
 Bass: 3590 > ES > EDSE
 Mids: 3590 = ES > EDSE
 Treble: ES > 3590 > EDSE

*Soundstage and 3D effect*
 Width: 3590 > ES > EDSE
 Depth: ES > 3590 > EDSE
 Imaging (what I'd call accuracy of positioning, to put it bluntly): ES > 3590 > EDSE

 I won't dwell on tonality and sound signature. But I believe these parameters are easily identifiable during A/B comparisons.
 Also, do note that my SHE3580 have well over 1000 hours on it. My ES have close to 150 hours while the EDSE have close to 100 hours.

 In terms of build quality, the SHE3590 has an injection molded jack. Its 3.5 jack isn't hollow, so the copper core isn't likely to break even with repeated bending, which often happens when you move around the music player or when the player is in the pocket. The only caveat is the cables can be brittle after a long time, especially when you leave them tangled. The cables literally fall apart when that happens. I roll up mine like you would a garden hose or lasso, so it's still very elastic after nearly 3 years. The ES and EDSE on the other hand have better cables and an L-shaped jack, although I can't attest to their longevity yet as I've only owned them for a month.


----------



## leobigfield

Very nice @SymphonyX7! Thanks for the attention.

After your comparisons i'm leaning towards the Philips, they seem to offer a better overall value sound wise. There is a seller at ebay that sells them $12 the with free international shipping.


----------



## altrunox

leobigfield said:


> Very nice @SymphonyX7! Thanks for the attention.
> 
> After your comparisons i'm leaning towards the Philips, they seem to offer a better overall value sound wise. There is a seller at ebay that sells them $12 the with free international shipping.


 
 but since your going to buy them for gifts, IMO, the KZ looks much more premium.


----------



## peter123

bhazard said:


> Yup. Great price. The cables and case alone are worth $30.
> 
> All of the KZ aliexpress store is 30% off right now + coupons.




Thanks for the heads up, I just ordered the Platinum LE's for $23


----------



## Hisoundfi

The KZ ANV

Out of the box I was very very impressed with the build quality. It is on par with some 300 dollar models. Cable is thick and flexible, strain reliefs are all in the right place, it has a cable cinch, and the polished metal housings are built like tanks. 

Sound out of the box was meh. They definitely need an amp to shine, but with my source plugged into any of my amplifiers I am pleased with the sound. It is very balanced and has a chill vibe to the sound. Nothing stands far out in front of anything else. Is it giant killer sound? NO

These would be a good pick for anyone who prefers the es over the edse. They would be a good purchase for anyone looking for a KZ earphone with less bass than their product line normally has.


----------



## Hisoundfi

PS, I loop my iems over my ears as much as possible to avoid microphonics. With the kz anv, the straight down fitment is very good with a proper sealing tip (I use large sony hybrids) and microphonics are minimized when the cable cinch is in a good position to prevent sliding.


----------



## Hisoundfi

A solid performer


----------



## BigGearHunter

Hey Hisoundfi, that's a fantastic review. I believe you own a ton of KZs, could you tell me what are your current favorites are?


----------



## WuddaWaste

Greetings all.  I'm a long time lurker (many, many, many years) and first time poster.  Frankly, I can’t believe it has taken me this long to finally make an account.
  
 I stumbled across these earbuds late last night.  After too many hours of back-and-forth contemplation and hours of reading this thread, I pulled the trigger around 3am, bought two pairs of each: KZ-GR and KZ-EDSE, and then convinced myself to go finally shut off the brain and go to sleep.
  
 I wanted to thank you guys, both as creators and purveyors of this thread in particular, and as a representative subset of Head-Fi as a whole (please relay my gratitude to all the other members – haha).  As a lifelong audio junkie with an affinity to buck marketing trends and find the best sound for the cheapest price, I admire this community and especially this thread.  So, modestly, thank you to everyone here for all that you do.  It feels like I’ve found my long-lost, audio-obsessive but not snobbish family.
  
 Can’t wait to get these buds.  And likewise, can’t wait to get my feet wet in this community.  You guys are all great.


----------



## Hisoundfi

biggearhunter said:


> Hey Hisoundfi, that's a fantastic review. I believe you own a ton of KZs, could you tell me what are your current favorites are?


If you like bass, I prefer the kz ed special edition, the kz r3, kz dt3, or the kz gr. 

If you like balanced sound, go with the kz micro ring, kz ed3, kz es, or kz anv

Others to consider is the cm9. It's got North of neutral bass with better than average mids and treble


----------



## BigGearHunter

hisoundfi said:


> If you like bass, I prefer the kz ed special edition, the kz r3, kz dt3, or the kz gr.
> 
> If you like balanced sound, go with the kz micro ring, kz ed3, kz es, or kz anv
> 
> Others to consider is the cm9. It's got North of neutral bass with better than average mids and treble



Perfect breakdown, thanks!

I'm about to get all of those models, so I'll check the sound out first hand. Again, thanks!


----------



## Baycode

KZ ES benefits from burn-in. For my ears now the sound is worth up to 20-30 USD level, but not even a cent more than that... Although at the 8 USD price even the cable and jack are worth it, not to mention the good quality eartips. The biggest problem with ES is eartips included with the iem. Although they are very good quality, they certainly ruin the SQ. I have tried many eartips and best sounding ones appeared to be Hifiman White Silicone Double Flanges. After the Hifiman eartips subbass also came to a desired level (even slightly more to my liking). I like its overall balance but sound is not refined to my liking... For 8 USD, no brainier...  I am planning to use the cable to mod my MH1C


----------



## mochill

:eek:


----------



## mochill

Don't destroy the es , they need minimum 200hrs


----------



## Baycode

mochill said:


> Don't destroy the es , they need minimum 200hrs




Oh boy


----------



## mochill

... Yes they are good but needs a good amount of time. How much burn in do you have if I may ask


----------



## Baycode

mochill said:


> ... Yes they are good but needs a good amount of time. How much burn in do you have if I may ask




Around 50h. I will definately go beyond 100h. But lost any hope :/


----------



## mochill

Don't lose hope


----------



## fluxcore

I dunno, can no-one else hear the increase in background noise from the EDSE going to ES? If not, I'm guessing it's a complete gamble on these headphones, quality-wise, although my sample size is one.


----------



## AlexRs

Hi guys, new member here, but i've been watching this thread for some time now.
 I too have been eyeing that KZ LPS deal (http://es.aliexpress.com/item/GK-LPS-music-headphones-foldable-headset-computer-headset-high-end-mobile-computer-headset-comfortable-to-wear/2055043657.html) and now with those coupons it's even more atractive.
  
 For that price I'll probably pull the trigger anyway, but I was wondering if someone could help me with a dilemma.
 For some time now I've been using a pair of Creative Aurvana Live on my PC (with a Xonar D2/PM sound card) and I can say that I'm happy with the sound characteristics that they offer.
  
 Now I know the LPS is a new model and probably no one got them yet so that they can give a hands-on impression, but what about the "old" LP model (I think that's what it was called)? Seeing as the CALs are a pretty popular headphone did anyone had the chance to compare them to the LP model from KZ? How do they sound compared to each other? Are they even in the same ballpark regarding the characteristics of the sound they output? For example, I'm not looking for a very bassy headphone, but for one with a balanced, all-round sound.
  
 Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Shluupag

fluxcore said:


> I dunno, can no-one else hear the increase in background noise from the EDSE going to ES? If not, I'm guessing it's a complete gamble on these headphones, quality-wise, although my sample size is one.


 

 What noise? Comes from your source/amp, right? I think ES signature overall being bit clearer, brighter, more treble oriented, and not having that bloaty bass covering stuff, it would be quite expected that certain noise becomes more audible. So I doubt your ES have any problem.


----------



## fluxcore

shluupag said:


> What noise? Comes from your source/amp, right? I think ES signature overall being bit clearer, brighter, more treble oriented, and not having that bloaty bass covering stuff, it would be quite expected that certain noise becomes more audible. So I doubt your ES have any problem.


 
  
 Not a lot of bloaty bass covering stuff when it's just silence being played  The source isn't perfect obviously, but from just a/b ing the EDSE and the ES, the background noise is much more noticeable. Often distractingly so :/ I don't *think* the overall volume through the ES seemed higher (which could possibly account for it), although I can't check that right now...


----------



## 1clearhead

baycode said:


> Around 50h. I will definately go beyond 100h. But lost any hope :/


 
 Don't loose hope.....try round foam (sponge) tips, or 'mochill's suggestion' jvc spiral dot tips. I'm pretty sure either choice will do the job for you. 
  
 ......Past that 100 hour mark, they become sweet.


----------



## Shluupag

fluxcore said:


> Not a lot of bloaty bass covering stuff when it's just silence being played  The source isn't perfect obviously, but from just a/b ing the EDSE and the ES, the background noise is much more noticeable. Often distractingly so :/ I don't *think* the overall volume through the ES seemed higher (which could possibly account for it), although I can't check that right now...


 
  
 Oh, well I still think it makes the noise coming from your source more audible due to different signature... so likely ES is fine, but not so nice to listen to with your source...
  
 I have hiss with my NX1, but haven't compared wether it sounds different on the IEMs... I'll check that thought I suppose amp hiss is different to what noise you are talking about. Maybe someone wiser can weigh in.
  
 It's just that I notice that I drop volume with EDSE, because there's so much bass... so if I switch to ES with same volume level, then treble and stuff is accentuated compared to EDSE, any noise would be probably those frequencies... if it works that simply.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I brought the edse, ed3, and ES to work today. Looking forward to doing an a-b-c comparison.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> I brought the edse, ed3, and ES to work today. Looking forward to doing an a-b-c comparison.



 
Wow.....3 way match-up!.....Can't wait for the results!


----------



## Hisoundfi

Dude, it might not be a sound for everyone, but I love the sound that comes out of my kzedse. It's the best headphone deal of 2014 IMHO, at least so far. 

It's extended on both ends, has lush and forward-ish mids, good separation, and prominent bass. It's a very enjoyable and musical sound IMHO. 

It's built like a tank, and the new kz able is dope. 

Like all iems, source and tip selection play a big part in getting the most out of them.


----------



## koreanzombie

The kz se and kz gr definitely punch way above their weight, I would say they compete with iems in the $50 category range. Im actually preferring the sound of the gr to the se. The gr has a smooth treble, very easy to listen for long periods. Hisoundfi honestly I prefer the the se and gr to the TTPOD T1E, for me the T1E's are too laid back. Has anyone got the platinum edition yet?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Idk, but to me the kz es has a really congested top end. Upper mids and treble is splashy and sloppy. It's like I want to appreciate them for offering something with less boom and more tightness in the bass and lower mids department in comparison to the kzedse, but it's like the looseness and sloppiness is now apparent in the upper mids and treble, which makes them very hard for me to enjoy. There's a harshness and grainy sound in the top end that I can't ignore, especially during complex passages.


----------



## Hisoundfi

koreanzombie said:


> The kz se and kz gr definitely punch way above their weight, I would say they compete with iems in the $50 category range. Im actually preferring the sound of the gr to the se. The gr has a smooth treble, very easy to listen for long periods. Hisoundfi honestly I prefer the the se and gr to the TTPOD T1E, for me the T1E's are too laid back. Has anyone got the platinum edition yet?


That tells me you like a v signature, and probably listen to mostly edm, pop, hip hop, or dub step. I really enjoy the KZ gr for these genres. 

I'm glad you like the gr, it's an awesome iem, not to mention the amazing price.


----------



## koreanzombie

hisoundfi said:


> That tells me you like a v signature, and probably listen to mostly edm, pop, hip hop, or dub step. I really enjoy the KZ gr for these genres.
> 
> I'm glad you like the gr, it's an awesome iem, not to mention the amazing price.


 
 Your diagnosis is right  They pretty much handle every genre very well. It is an awesome iem, just wish they didnt make them so heavy lol, and the non existent strain relief's on the ear buds do worry me about durability.


----------



## Hisoundfi

koreanzombie said:


> Your diagnosis is right  They pretty much handle every genre very well. It is an awesome iem, just wish they didnt make them so heavy lol, and the non existent strain relief's on the ear buds do worry me about durability.


looping them over the ear resolves any issues with weight.


----------



## Hisoundfi

IMHO the kz ed3 has more to offer than the kz es. It's the same signature with clearer and more articulate highs. Just my opinion

Kzedse>kzed3>kzes

Kzedse is warmer, lusher, and easier to to listen to. 

Kzed3 is pretty balanced with a slight v signature. It reminds me of a poor man's GR07BE. 

Kzes is very decent. It honestly doesn't do anything better than my kzedse or kzed3 however.


----------



## mochill




----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> Dude, it might not be a sound for everyone, but I love the sound that comes out of my kzedse. It's the best headphone deal of 2014 IMHO, at least so far.
> 
> It's extended on both ends, has lush and forward-ish mids, good separation, and prominent bass. It's a very enjoyable and musical sound IMHO.
> 
> ...


 
 No one has gotten the full effect of the SE yet, because no one has tried it on a balanced amp. That's a balanced cabled TRRS tip on it, which is unheard of for iems under $200, nevermind $10.


----------



## altrunox

bhazard said:


> No one has gotten the full effect of the SE yet, because no one has tried it on a balanced amp. That's a balanced cabled TRRS tip on it, which is unheard of for iems under $200, nevermind $10.


 
 What if, they release a DAP with a balanced output under $100


----------



## BigGearHunter

Bhazard, that is an intriguing statement. Do you mind elaborating on your favorite KZ models or the ones you think have the most potential?


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> IMHO the kz ed3 has more to offer than the kz es. It's the same signature with clearer and more articulate highs. Just my opinion
> 
> Kzedse>kzed3>kzes
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hate my wallet! Never enough dough for the flow!
  
 At this price, I might as well add all 3 in my collection.


----------



## bhazard

biggearhunter said:


> Bhazard, that is an intriguing statement. Do you mind elaborating on your favorite KZ models or the ones you think have the most potential?


 
 EDSE, ES, GR, and soon to be the LP-S most likely. The site descriptions somewhat match they sound they put out.
  
 They are xiaomi piston like values, each with slightly different sound sigs. Buy your own eartips and never use the ones they come with. When bought in a bulk pack of 2 iems or more, the value is huge. Just don't expect them to beat out $50+ iems.


----------



## BigGearHunter

bhazard said:


> EDSE, ES, GR, and soon to be the LP-S most likely. The site descriptions somewhat match they sound they put out.
> 
> They are xiaomi piston like values, each with slightly different sound sigs. Buy your own eartips and never use the ones they come with. When bought in a bulk pack of 2 iems or more, the value is huge. Just don't expect them to beat out $50+ iems.



Gotcha. Thanks!

When are you getting those LPS?


----------



## Milanche78

bhazard said:


> EDSE, ES, GR, and soon to be the LP-S most likely. The site descriptions somewhat match they sound they put out.
> 
> They are xiaomi piston like values, each with slightly different sound sigs. Buy your own eartips and never use the ones they come with. When bought in a bulk pack of 2 iems or more, the value is huge. Just don't expect them to beat out $50+ iems.


 
 Any suggestion for good eartips from Ali store, I need small ones.
  
 I got mine edse with the microphone and it does not work, at least i can not answer the phone call by pressing the red button, also when I plug them in mobile phone (I tried both Iphone and Android, they play only in 1 position, if moved a little to the left or to the right, can not hear anything, when plugged in my computers amp, everything is fine).
  
 1 more thing , which 1 goes to the left/right ear, 1 has red, the other has blue circle?


----------



## solcrystal

milanche78 said:


> Any suggestion for good eartips from Ali store, I need small ones.
> 
> I got mine edse with the microphone and it does not work, at least i can not answer the phone call by pressing the red button, also when I plug them in mobile phone (I tried both Iphone and Android, they play only in 1 position, if moved a little to the left or to the right, can not hear anything, when plugged in my computers amp, everything is fine).
> 
> 1 more thing , which 1 goes to the left/right ear, 1 has red, the other has blue circle?


 
  
*R*ed = *R*ight ear
 b*L*ue = *L*eft ear
  
 Hehe, I only learned it recently, too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (also, people like buying eartips from lunashops.com, if you want to check that site instead of aliexpress)


----------



## zeroviz

I just got the KZ-Gr bundled with KZ-ES with microphone. Sale is too hard to ignore!
 I have to say that out of the box, the Gr sounds incredibly muddy, with bass bleeding badly into the mid range.
 This is not improved by changing over the screw on inserts.
 I hope they improve with some burn in.....they are easily the worst sounding earphone I have....even worse than the Iverys
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still enjoying my ED-SE.


----------



## Milanche78

Can you check if the mic works, it does not on mine edse? Thanks


----------



## Squalo

Anyone chose the EMS-shopping option and got EMS? I opted for EMS, but just got regular airmail. Regular registered airmail - tracking number starting with _*R*_.
  
 Mine has been sitting at a Chinese airport hub for 4 weeks now... Thinking maybe it is better to take the "Sweden Post" next time.


----------



## mebaali

squalo said:


> Anyone chose the EMS-shopping option and got EMS? I opted for EMS, but just got regular airmail. Regular registered airmail - tracking number starting with _*R*_.
> 
> Mine has been sitting at a Chinese airport hub for 4 weeks now... Thinking maybe it is better to take the "Sweden Post" next time.


 

 I too had similar experience with aliexpress. I chose EMS at the time of ordering EDSE + ES combo but it is still sent through regular China Post.


----------



## peter123

squalo said:


> Anyone chose the EMS-shopping option and got EMS? I opted for EMS, but just got regular airmail. Regular registered airmail - tracking number starting with _*R*_.
> 
> Mine has been sitting at a Chinese airport hub for 4 weeks now... Thinking maybe it is better to take the "Sweden Post" next time.




It's always better to go "the Swedish way"........... and yes, I'm Swedish


----------



## Milanche78

squalo said:


> Anyone chose the EMS-shopping option and got EMS? I opted for EMS, but just got regular airmail. Regular registered airmail - tracking number starting with _*R*_.
> 
> Mine has been sitting at a Chinese airport hub for 4 weeks now... Thinking maybe it is better to take the "Sweden Post" next time.


 
 I opted for free shipping , first choice was Singapore post, but the seller send with Chinese post, anyway i got them in 2 weeks.


----------



## Boffy

hisoundfi said:


> The KZ ANV
> 
> Out of the box I was very very impressed with the build quality. It is on par with some 300 dollar models. Cable is thick and flexible, strain reliefs are all in the right place, it has a cable cinch, and the polished metal housings are built like tanks.
> 
> ...


 
 I apologize if I am asking a dumb question, but what are your opinions on the KZ ANV in terms of value? Does it sound far better than other IEM/earbuds in similar price range? I see them for $20 on Alienexpress, would you say it's a steal for the price?


----------



## BigGearHunter

boffy said:


> I apologize if I am asking a dumb question, but what are your opinions on the KZ ANV in terms of value? Does it sound far better than other IEM/earbuds in similar price range? I see them for $20 on Alienexpress, would you say it's a steal for the price?



$20? You can get the ANV and a pair of CM9s for like $14!

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Headset-Package-kz-anv-and-kz-2014-HIFI-headphones-metal-earphone-sports-headphones/1380688_32215315374.html


----------



## Boffy

biggearhunter said:


> $20? You can get the ANV and a pair of CM9s for like $14!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Headset-Package-kz-anv-and-kz-2014-HIFI-headphones-metal-earphone-sports-headphones/1380688_32215315374.html


 
 Wow what have I been doing. Thanks for the great info.


----------



## Milanche78

milanche78 said:


> I got mine edse with the *microphone* and it *does not work*, at least i can not answer the phone call by pressing the red button, also when I plug them in mobile phone (I tried both Iphone and Android, they play only in 1 position, if moved a little to the left or to the right, can not hear anything, when plugged in my computers amp, everything is fine).


 
  
 Anyone?
  
 Seller offered me a replacement, which 1 to ask for, now I have these EDSE and I am waiting for micro ring?


----------



## robervaul

Plug L KZ was inspired by the DENON Music Maniac AH-C400 ?


----------



## slowpickr

My KZ IEM's arrived in Chicago today.  Yee haw!!!


----------



## BigGearHunter

slowpickr said:


> My KZ IEM's arrived in Chicago today.  Yee haw!!!



Are you posting pictures when you get them?


----------



## slowpickr

biggearhunter said:


> Are you posting pictures when you get them?




I can do that!


----------



## BigGearHunter

slowpickr said:


> I can do that!



Thanks!


----------



## mochill

My one as well but will probably get to me by next week


----------



## mebaali

slowpickr said:


> My KZ IEM's arrived in Chicago today.  Yee haw!!!


 

 Lucky You!
  
 Mine are still at Koklata Customs office for the last week or so. With all these Deepawali (festival of lights in India) holidays around, I doubt I will receive them any time sooner 
  
 Do share your first impressions with them


----------



## mebaali

Did any of those who had ordered KZ-LPS earlier, received it yet?
  
 I was "this" close to ordering them yesterday and restrained myself from going for it (was in dilemma, whether to go for a full sized cans or stick with yet another IEM)
  
  
 Edit: Just couldn't control the temptation, have placed an order for KZ-LPS from aliexpress.


----------



## fanlee

hi guys
 please put on a good to less good (kz edse, kz ed2, kz se, kz gr, kz r3, kz dt3). if you had to choose two pairs of headphones, what would you choose?


----------



## SymphonyX7

My KZ ES now has well over 200 hours. I think I can assess it now. The boomy bass from whence it was still a virgin has now mellowed down. Also, most of the veil in the mids has gone. I'm also very happy that the KZs, both my ES and EDSE, are very receptive to being equalized. I could raise any portion of the spectrum by over 10 dB and there's virtually no distortion.

 Anyway, in addition to the burn-in, I've also had plenty of time to find the best EQ setting for my ES. I've actually managed to find a setting that makes it sound almost exactly like my EQ'ed SHE3580. It's now very balanced in addition to its neutral sound signature. There are some differences though (my EQ'ed ES vs EQ'ed SHE3580):

 - There is better extension on the ES compared to the SHE3580. The bass digs deeper and the highs extend farther without getting sibilant. The bass quality on the ES is arguably better imo. It can sound woofer-like without getting muddy. The SHE3580 can't do woofer-like bass, although it's clean.
 - The upper mids on the ES are still slightly veiled, even with all the burn-in and my EQ settings. The mids in general are very pleasant though. Male vocals on the ES are noticeably richer compared to the SHE3580.
 - Much better decay on the ES. Notes from a synth or bass guitar are delightful. 
 - Better detail retrieval on the ES from lows to mids. Better detail retrieval on the SHE3580 on highs.
 - Better instrument imaging on the ES. Instruments in general sounds crisper and have more bite. 

 Do note that I'm comparing these with my custom EQ settings that's geared for a more balanced sound. However, the native sound of both the ES and SHE3580 are pretty similar, although the ES is a bit more of a shallow U-shape rather than V-shaped. Likewise, the EQ settings I used for both don't vary too much from each other. The ES just needed a steeper increase in the 500 Hz to 2 Khz region compared to the settings I use on the SHE3580.

 Personally, I find the ES to be a superior version of the SHE3590 in terms of sound. I didn't feel that way at first, but after all that burn-in time and finally finding a comparable EQ setting, I can safely say they're the better IEM. I'd describe them as "a more intimate, soulful version of the SHE3580/3590". They have approximately the same soundstage, with the ES everything feels closer and more in your face whilst maintaining their respective positions. I just wish they had better detail retrieval on highs. All in all though, I can finally retire my 3 year old SHE3580 and replace it with the ES as my daily driver.


----------



## xrM

squalo said:


> Anyone chose the EMS-shopping option and got EMS? I opted for EMS, but just got regular airmail. Regular registered airmail - tracking number starting with _*R*_.
> 
> Mine has been sitting at a Chinese airport hub for 4 weeks now... Thinking maybe it is better to take the "Sweden Post" next time.


 

 Mine was shipped out on 2014-10-08, last update on ChinaPost's site was 2014-10-14 with 出口总包互封开拆. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Takes over 2 weeks to inspect some earphones?


----------



## BigGearHunter

symphonyx7 said:


> My KZ ES now has well over 200 hours. I think I can assess it now. The boomy bass from whence it was still a virgin has now mellowed down. Also, most of the veil in the mids has gone. I'm also very happy that the KZs, both my ES and EDSE, are very receptive to being equalized. I could raise any portion of the spectrum by over 10 dB and there's virtually no distortion.
> 
> 
> Anyway, in addition to the burn-in, I've also had plenty of time to find the best EQ setting for my ES. I've actually managed to find a setting that makes it sound almost exactly like my EQ'ed SHE3580. It's now very balanced in addition to its neutral sound signature. There are some differences though (my EQ'ed ES vs EQ'ed SHE3580):
> ...




What a fantastic review. You should know that I got my first pair of KZs because of you, then got another 5 pairs and even though I've received none of them yet, I'm even more pumped now. Thanks!


----------



## vic2vic

I'm tempted by the KZ-Platinum LE, but as always I'm confused about KZ models and prices on aliexpress.
  
 These IEMs are going for $25.2, but if you buy them in bundle with KZ-EDSE... you pay $24.22, for both sets !!!
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Package-kz-Platinum-Limited-Edition-and-kz-ed-Special-Edition-wire-headset-music-earphone-headset-phone/1380688_32215073455.html
 (and of course, the KZ-EDSE in this bundle is exactly the same model as KZ-ED2).
  
 But if you look at the KZ-DT5 (temporarily priced at $88, but going for $16 on taobao), they seems exactly the same model as the Platinum LE:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-DT5-music-headset-phone-headset-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset/1380688_32218709747.html
 DT5's reviews on Taobao seems quite good (Google translator based), but mainly focused on the heavy bass aspect of this IEM. And no sign of the "Platinum Edition" on Taobao.
  
  
 Is the offer of KZ headphnes less confusing ? Probably not, as next to the newly released KZ-LPS, they just listed the KZ-LPT:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-lpt-music-earphone-phone-headset-HIFI-sound-headphones-bass-headset-phone-headset/1380688_32218703053.html
 Which, of course, looks the same (including tech specs) as KZ-LPS
  








 
  
 Despite all of this, I still love KZ and have LPS on my way. And as everybody said: please bring on a dual driver IEM


----------



## fnkcow

The speed at which they come out with new IEMs and headphones is just insane and confusing. They still tend to stick to the same tuning and design though. Looks like they just release every fine tuning on the way to their desired earphones based on the same tuning and design philosophy. Wish they'd release something different though. But impressive for the price nonetheless.


----------



## mochill

Dt3 out for delivery


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> Dt3 out for delivery


 
  
 Oh? I thought you had the DT3 already.


----------



## 1clearhead

@mochill,
  
 Is the KZ-Limited Edition (or bass edition) the same model known as the DT5?
  
 .....I saw the DT5 on taobao's website. Are these the same?


----------



## bhazard

DT5 looks to be the same as the Platinum Edition 
 LPT looks the same as the LPS. Unsure of that. Someone would need to verify both of these.
  
 The LPS does come with that case and cable though. People have posted pics on the taobao store, and have praised it so far. They say the quality is better than the previous LPs.


----------



## peter123

mochill said:


> Dt3 out for delivery




Impressions please


----------



## 1clearhead

Has anyone tried the 'round wide-bore foam tips' with the KZ-EDSE, or KZ-ED3? And, please give some details how it sounds compared to KZ-ES?


----------



## mochill

I don't know about the dt5


----------



## Squalo

Looks like the difference between DT5 and PLE could be the back vent? Pictures of the PLE are bad but I don't see it. And it is clear in DT5.
  
 And from the customer pictures of LPS it looks like it has the B/W fabric "shoe lace" cable, not the black one in the official pictures. Case looks fab.


----------



## bhazard

DT3 is in. It's a well done bass cannon. Vocals come through quite clearly, but overall it can get congested on complicated passages like rock music.
  
 Still much better than what $10 can buy you normally. Only 10 min in.
  
 --
 30 min in, and it's an upgrade over the EDSE minus the balanced plug. Bass is a bit more controlled but still needs some taming, vocals more clear, treble slightly more extended. Treble and detail lovers won't be pleased.
  
 These would be more in line with a Beats IEM equivalent for the gym for a fun EDM/pop sound, but not priced absurdly.


----------



## mochill

Loving the nice smooth sound of the dt3


----------



## bhazard

mochill said:


> Loving the nice smooth sound of the dt3


 
 Definitely smooth. Wide bore tips recommended. Sounds fantastic with EDM and album mixes with too much treble (Zomboy)


----------



## mochill

I'm using stock tips atm , I just got them few minutes ago


----------



## bhazard

Whenever I think of KZ, I always think of the "What do you get for $10?" Full Metal Jacket scene with the prostitute.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Dt3 is warm and bassy. I do like the treble presentation. It is polite and present. It's not detailed or transparent. It's a great iem. Idk if I would say it's an upgrade over my kzedse, but it's got a similar low end with less treble extension.


----------



## Shluupag

I've got an idea, buy 24 pairs of these and other cheap China IEMs and make Christmas calendar out of it.


----------



## DisCHORDDubstep

clee290 said:


> Where did those prices come from? The KZ IEMs you put on the list can be bought for about $10 or less from KZ's shop on Aliexpress.
> 
> EDSE
> GR
> R3


MP4Nation.


----------



## clee290

dischorddubstep said:


> MP4Nation.


 

 Quite the markup.


----------



## smy1

just got my ks ed and es which one of those would be better for like dubstep/vocal/pop
  
 and for the ed it dosent say which is left or right piece does anyone know which one is left and right just has red and blue lines?


----------



## clee290

smy1 said:


> just got my ks ed and es which one of those would be better for like dubstep/vocal/pop
> 
> and for the ed it dosent say which is left or right piece does anyone know which one is left and right just has red and blue lines?


 

 Try em out! 
  
 And blue is left, red is right.


----------



## smy1

clee290 said:


> Try em out!
> 
> And blue is left, red is right.


 
 thanks so far there GREAT!


----------



## peter123

dischorddubstep said:


> Hey guys, lets get the ball rolling on massdrop for KZ IEM's.  I started this vote. https://www.massdrop.com/vote/iems-under-30




Sorry to say but mentioning that site is a no no around here (read forum rules). I personally don't care just wanted to inform you since I wouldn't like to see you banned.


----------



## smy1

Thinking about buying either the dt3 or gk-gr with gk cm9 which one should I buy what got my attention is the gk-gr the dual thing

Also how would the dt3, gk-gr and gk cm9 compare to the edse, es, pistons 2.1 and she 3580


----------



## smy1

mebaali said:


> I too had similar experience with aliexpress. I chose EMS at the time of ordering EDSE + ES combo but it is still sent through regular China Post.




How do you pick the ems shipping because it says it take 5-15 days mine took about 22 or so days and I live in Us NC


----------



## slowpickr

biggearhunter said:


> Are you posting pictures when you get them?


 
  
 Ask and ye shall receive.  
  
 Initial impressions.  KZ EDSE is my favorite of the bunch.  Nice low end with clear mids and highs.  ANV also has clear mids and highs but is a little lite in the bass department for my tastes.  Now, the GR is a huge disappointment.  Very muffled across the entire frequency spectrum regardless of which filter is used.  It also has poorly defined muddy bass.  They actually remind me of some fake Ivery IS-1's I wasted money on a month or two ago.  These are all impressions right out of the box so take them with a grain of salt.  I'm going to audition the ANV and GR some more but I suspect they will end up in the classifieds or passed on to a relative.  I really don't think any amount of burn in could ever improve them enough.  Lastly, like everyone has stated, the build quality and cables are top notch.


----------



## BigGearHunter

slowpickr said:


> Ask and ye shall receive.
> 
> Initial impressions.  KZ EDSE is my favorite of the bunch.  Nice low end with clear mids and highs.  ANV also has clear mids and highs but is a little lite in the bass department for my tastes.  Now, the GR is a huge disappointment.  Very muffled across the entire frequency spectrum regardless of which filter is used.  It also has poorly defined muddy bass.  They actually remind me of some fake Ivery IS-1's I wasted money on a month or two ago.  These are all impressions right out of the box so take them with a grain of salt.  I'm going to audition the ANV and GR some more but I suspect they will end up in the classifieds or passed on to a relative.  I really don't think any amount of burn in could ever improve them enough.  Lastly, like everyone has stated, the build quality and cables are top notch.


 
 That's a great photo. I think your impressions are tough, but fair. I'm sure you tried generous tip rolling on the GRs and ANVs, right? That'd be my only idea for immediate improvement. But again, surely you've done it. Thanks for delivering!


----------



## slowpickr

biggearhunter said:


> That's a great photo. I think your impressions are tough, but fair. I'm sure you tried generous tip rolling on the GRs and ANVs, right? That'd be my only idea for immediate improvement. But again, surely you've done it. Thanks for delivering!


 
  
 Yes, I always start out with Sony hybrids.  If they don't sound good I go to wide bore.  Don't get me wrong, I thought the ANVs were very respectable, just a little bass lite for my personal tastes.  The GRs on the other hand... well, I just couldn't leave them in my ears very long before reaching for something else.  Anyway, I'm going to give them some more play time.  If my opinion changes, I'll post.  Thanks.


----------



## smy1

slowpickr said:


> Ask and ye shall receive.
> 
> Initial impressions.  KZ EDSE is my favorite of the bunch.  Nice low end with clear mids and highs.  ANV also has clear mids and highs but is a little lite in the bass department for my tastes.  Now, the GR is a huge disappointment.  Very muffled across the entire frequency spectrum regardless of which filter is used.  It also has poorly defined muddy bass.  They actually remind me of some fake Ivery IS-1's I wasted money on a month or two ago.  These are all impressions right out of the box so take them with a grain of salt.  I'm going to audition the ANV and GR some more but I suspect they will end up in the classifieds or passed on to a relative.  I really don't think any amount of burn in could ever improve them enough.  Lastly, like everyone has stated, the build quality and cables are top notch.


 
 are you talking about the gr balanced or the gk-gr because they look identical
  
 and what are the difference between the gr balanced and the gk-gr?


----------



## mebaali

smy1 said:


> How do you pick the ems shipping because it says it take 5-15 days mine took about 22 or so days and I live in Us NC


 

 While going into ordering page you should the option of choosing an appropriate shipping method, that's where I chose EMS but the seller still used China Registered Airmail. BTW, I am yet to receive my package (stuck at Kolkata airport/customs for the past 10 days)


----------



## mebaali

@slowpickr - Nice 1st impressions there!
  
 It seems clear that EDSE has made great 1st impressions with almost everyone who had tried it so far. They appear to satisfy both the mass as well as class audience in terms of Musical Value to Price ratio. All this, is only making my eagerness to try them multifold


----------



## smy1

mebaali said:


> While going into ordering page you should the option of choosing an appropriate shipping method, that's where I chose EMS but the seller still used China Registered Airmail. BTW, I am yet to receive my package (stuck at Kolkata airport/customs for the past 10 days)


 
 my package was stuck in china for like 1.5 weeks and china 1 week and 3 days in the US


----------



## BigGearHunter

smy1 said:


> my package was stuck in china for like 1.5 weeks and china 1 week and 3 days in the US


 

 Do you mean Canada on that second country?


----------



## smy1

biggearhunter said:


> Do you mean Canada on that second country?




No I live in the US it was stuck in chiacgo for a day then another place then reach my home


----------



## nismo88

@slowpickr  my GR sounded exactly the same as what you mentioned but I notice the bass actually firm up and mellow down after some burning in which bring out the mids and highs to a more acceptable level.  I am on the red tips now and still burning in them more to see if there will be further improvements.... fingers crossed...


----------



## smy1

nismo88 said:


> @slowpickr
> my GR sounded exactly the same as what you mentioned but I notice the bass actually firm up and mellow down after some burning in which bring out the mids and highs to a more acceptable level.  I am on the red tips now and still burning in them more to see if there will be further improvements.... fingers crossed... :etysmile:




Hope ur not talking about the gk-gr *fingers crossed*


----------



## gimster

The R3 linear sounds fun and good and has nice supple cabling. Just ordered this package for just over $20: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Package-kz-Platinum-Limited-Edition-and-kz-ed-Special-Edition-wire-headset-music-earphone-headset-phone/32215073455.html


----------



## nismo88

smy1 said:


> Hope ur not talking about the gk-gr *fingers crossed*


 
  


> Its the gk-gr but the sound is getting better and better as I burn them in..... so no worries yet.... you can uncross your fingers for now..


----------



## slowpickr

smy1 said:


> are you talking about the gr balanced or the gk-gr because they look identical
> 
> and what are the difference between the gr balanced and the gk-gr?


 
  
 My set is the g k.gr.  Here is the link:  http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6277712355.html
  
 I'm going to try burn-in. But, my hopes are not very high.  Not sure about your second question.


----------



## squallkiercosa

Isn't weird for all of you the price differences among sellers? I'm tempted to follow the hype (and I need a cx300i replacement) but, are they really as good as many of you mentioned? Better than what? Why don't you guys write a list of headphones you've tried before?


----------



## DisCHORDDubstep

peter123 said:


> Sorry to say but mentioning that site is a no no around here (read forum rules). I personally don't care just wanted to inform you since I wouldn't like to see you banned.


oh? I didn't see that in the rules... I'll edit my post, so edit the quote.  
EDIT: My post was already deleted.


----------



## peter123

dischorddubstep said:


> oh? I didn't see that in the rules... I'll edit my post, so edit the quote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SymphonyX7

squallkiercosa said:


> Isn't weird for all of you the price differences among sellers? I'm tempted to follow the hype (and I need a cx300i replacement) but, are they really as good as many of you mentioned? Better than what? Why don't you guys write a list of headphones you've tried before?


 
 The humble $9 KZ ED Special Edition would mercilessly crush the CX300-ii in every criteria. You can only imagine what sets that cost over $30 in Chinese budget-fi land will offer, although diminishing returns still apply. For instance, the $36 TTPod T1E doesn't sound twice as good as the KZ ED Special Edition. In some instances, people even liked my EDSE with my custom EQ settings better than the T1E, also with custom EQ settings (although honestly I'm still figuring out which settings maximize the T1E while my EDSE can easily use my SHE3580's EQ settings and immediately sound like a beast due to their similarities).


----------



## smy1

slowpickr said:


> My set is the g k.gr.  Here is the link:  http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6277712355.html
> 
> I'm going to try burn-in. But, my hopes are not very high.  Not sure about your second question.




I just bought this one http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1987107500.html?tracelog=storedetail2mobilesitedetail

I don't know if these are similar to mine http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1987291707.html?tracelog=storedetail2mobilesitedetail

Also ordered the gr cm9


----------



## squallkiercosa

symphonyx7 said:


> The humble $9 KZ ED Special Edition would mercilessly crush the CX300-ii in every criteria.


 
 I'm not looking for a replacement in terms of sound newbie, size is the concern. 
 It makes no sense saying how good kz is without comparing them to what you actually own, not what others write.


----------



## smy1

squallkiercosa said:


> I'm not looking for a replacement in terms of sound newbie, size is the concern.
> 
> It makes no sense saying how good kz is without comparing them to what you actually own, not what others write.




I had the cx215 and I would say the kz es will beat it by 100 miles

I burn in my cx maybe 100-150 hours

But never tried the cx300


----------



## squallkiercosa

smy1 said:


> I had the cx215 and I would say the kz es will beat it by 100 miles
> 
> I burn in my cx maybe 100-150 hours
> 
> But never tried the cx300


 
 That's a better answer. I'm a miserable greedy man: I went for the cheapest kz-r1 black option


----------



## SymphonyX7

squallkiercosa said:


> I'm not looking for a replacement in terms of sound newbie, *size is the concern. *
> It makes no sense saying *how good kz is without comparing them to what you actually own*, not what others write.


 
 What?* You* don't make sense. I wouldn't write that comment if I didn't own a CX300 in the first place.

 I used to own the CX-300 long, long ago. It's been over half a decade since they broke. I can say without hesitation that the KZ EDSE are far better than them.


----------



## smy1

squallkiercosa said:


> That's a better answer. I'm a miserable greedy man: I went for the cheapest option




Haha the kz es is better at everything compare to the cx215 imo

After thinking about it the cx215 was a big disappointment


----------



## squallkiercosa

symphonyx7 said:


> I used to own the CX-300 long, long ago. It's been over half a decade since they broke. I can say without hesitation that the KZ EDSE are far better than them.


 
 Congrats bro! Good to know.


----------



## mebaali

@SymphonyX7 - Could you kindly share your EQ setting for KZ EDSE  (or SHE3580) ?
  
 TIA


----------



## BigGearHunter

New model! The KZ DT5:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-DT5-pole-tone-music-headset-phone-headset-ear-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Universal/1380688_32221641361.html
  
 It looks quite similar to the PLE but with better craftsmanship.


----------



## rontant

biggearhunter said:


> New model! The KZ DT5:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-DT5-pole-tone-music-headset-phone-headset-ear-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Universal/1380688_32221641361.html
> 
> It looks quite similar to the PLE but with better craftsmanship.


 
  
 It is also selling at Taobao http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.125.bRPdk8&id=41919364044&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail
  
 Why is it everytime I look at DT5, I think about boxer pants?


----------



## fnkcow

rontant said:


> Why is it everytime I look at DT5, I think about boxer pants?


 
 Spot-on!


----------



## HraD2

biggearhunter said:


> New model! The KZ DT5:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-DT5-pole-tone-music-headset-phone-headset-ear-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Universal/1380688_32221641361.html
> 
> It looks quite similar to the PLE but with better craftsmanship.


 
 I have bought them. Seller said, that the images are from "pole tone version", not from ordinary DT5. They are really dual dynamic?


----------



## mochill

They seem promising


----------



## tsetse7

Just received KZ-ES and couple of SE. ... and I see new models already. DT3, PLE and now DT5. huh 
 I also realize that the prices keeps getting lower, so this this is kinda addictive. begging to buy more and more.
 Anyone received the PLE yet?


----------



## HraD2

What is PLE? Link, please ))


----------



## slowpickr

hrad2 said:


> What is PLE? Link, please ))


 
  
 I believe they are talking about the Platinum Limited Edition (PLE).
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-Platinum-Limited-Edition-ear-headphones-bass-headphones-music-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Global-Limited-first-999/1380688_32214111177.html


----------



## Shawn71

slowpickr said:


> I believe they are talking about the Platinum Limited Edition (PLE).
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-Platinum-Limited-Edition-ear-headphones-bass-headphones-music-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Global-Limited-first-999/1380688_32214111177.html




yes....rite.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Dude it's like kz all the sudden puts a new title on an older version of iem and raises the price 10-75 bucks. What the heck? 

The platinum, dt5, and now the dt5 pole version. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


----------



## Hisoundfi

PS I bought the platinum limited edition, and the kz 2013.


----------



## Hisoundfi

PS, oh Ya, I got the kz lps, just in time for the KZ lpt to come out. 

This is getting very confusing


----------



## Hisoundfi

Just for the record, the dt3 is pretty nice. It's a warm signature that still possesses very nice treble response that is fatigue free. It's definitely top 5 of all of my kz iems.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Imaging is very unique on dt3

It's refreshing to hear something that doesn't repeat what everyone else is trying to do.


----------



## BigGearHunter

hisoundfi said:


> PS, oh Ya, I got the kz lps, just in time for the KZ lpt to come out.
> 
> This is getting very confusing


 

 You mean you got them physically or just ordered them?


----------



## Hisoundfi

biggearhunter said:


> You mean you got them physically or just ordered them?


ordered them


----------



## Charliemotta

I can't find the KZ lpt anywhere... probably ok cause I have the lps coming....♫


----------



## clee290

Here it is:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-lpt-music-earphone-phone-headset-HIFI-sound-headphones-bass-headset-phone-headset/1380688_32218703053.html


----------



## mochill

So many kz


----------



## mebaali

Has anyone got their KZ-LPS china post shipping number working?
  
 Mine is coming up with no parcel received by china post message (ordered it on 23rd this month)


----------



## clee290

mebaali said:


> Has anyone got their KZ-LPS china post shipping number working?
> 
> Mine is coming up with no parcel received by china post message (ordered it on 23rd this month)


 
 I ordered on the 21st and the tracking info received it's first update earlier today (the 28th). Yours shouldn't be much longer.


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> Imaging is very unique on dt3
> 
> It's refreshing to hear something that doesn't repeat what everyone else is trying to do.


 
  
 +1. Absolutely agree. I am pleasantly surprised to find how stunning the imaging is.
  


hisoundfi said:


> Just for the record, the dt3 is pretty nice. It's a warm signature that still possesses very nice treble response that is fatigue free. It's definitely top 5 of all of my kz iems.


 
  
 What do you think about the DT3 layering? To me, even though the bass is strong and punchy, it doesn't bleed into the mid at all. No mid bass bloat. Do you agree?  I think DT3 is awesome!!!! I love it.
  
  
  
 By the way, KZ ANV is a disappointment for me. I let it burn for 5 days continuously and I still can't sense any improvement at all. Vocals on ANV sound very artificial as if they come through a toilet paper roll. The mids can be ear piercing as well. 
  
 I also tested ANV to see how it handles low quality MP3s with X5 + SAP5 at 35% volume level. I chose one low quality MP3, a jazz vocal with a solo piano accompaniment where distortions occur on some strong piano notes. As I expected, the piano sound distortion become very pronounced on ANV. This is sad because I really wanted to love ANV. It looks very elegant. The material and build are top notch but.... sigh...   Anyway, ANV only costs me less than $10, so I can forgive this ....  I will still continue to buy KZ but will stick to their newer models only.


----------



## mebaali

@clee290 - Thanks for the heads-up, mate 
  
 Meanwhile, my KZ EDSE and ES combo pack is still under the control of Kolkata customs. Not sure how many more days it's gonna take to get them cleared


----------



## SymphonyX7

mebaali said:


> @SymphonyX7 - Could you kindly share your EQ setting for KZ EDSE  (or SHE3580) ?
> 
> TIA


 
 These are my EQ settings for the SHE3580 on my Note 3. I'm still working on my final settings for the KZ EDSE, but this EQ setting works nicely on them too. I suggest reducing frequencies under 125 Hz a bit more though, since the EDSE is more bass heavy than the SHE3580.


----------



## mebaali

@SymphonyX7 - Thanks for the share, bud! Will try them today


----------



## tsetse7

mebaali said:


> @clee290 - Thanks for the heads-up, mate
> 
> Meanwhile, my KZ EDSE and ES combo pack is still under the control of Kolkata customs. Not sure how many more days it's gonna take to get them cleared


 
 customs used to be like that in mauritius too, fortunately that all changed and they actually release orders the same day most of the time.unfortunately that encourages me to order more and more stuff online.  like do i really need 6 kz in-ear?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Ya, the KZ ANV is not a signature for everyone. My pair is pretty flat tuning.
  
 It looks like you are a fan of warmer signatures. We are one in the same on this.


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> Ya, the KZ ANV is not a signature for everyone. My pair is pretty flat tuning.
> 
> It looks like you are a fan of warmer signatures. We are one in the same on this.


 
  
 Yeah, me too.  I'm not happy with the sound sigs on the ANV or the GR.  Build quality is another matter.  Anyway, I'm batting 1 out of 3 with KZ so I think I'm going to steer clear of them for a while unless something jumps out of the pack.  Of course they didn't cost that much.  But, I could have gotten a couple of McDonald's combo meals instead.


----------



## mebaali

tsetse7 said:


> customs used to be like that in mauritius too, fortunately that all changed and *they actually release orders the same day most of the time*.unfortunately that encourages me to order more and more stuff online.  like do i really need 6 kz in-ear?


 
 Lucky You! #sigh
  
 I am even ready to tolerate this delay in clearing the package but the worst part that I am most worried about is, in all likelihood I might end up paying double the cost of the product that I have ordered from overseas (in the form of customs duty)


----------



## Arvan

So i got the GR today! Funny since i bought the ED2 and the CM9 almost 2 weeks before i got the GR.. 
  
 I love the build of the GR but it sounds awful! Absolutely no treble or midrange at all...Sounds like you are listening to your neighbours cheap stereo system from the other side of the wall. It´s a shame really cause they are very nicely built


----------



## altrunox

All I want to know is...no one with the LPS yet?


----------



## bhazard

altrunox said:


> All I want to know is...no one with the LPS yet?


 
 Nope. 1 more week or so.
  
 For those with the GR, you must use the red filter and wide tips. Anything else is a mess.


----------



## rontant

I have no issue whatsoever with GR. It is quite balance across the spectrum. Vocals on GR are natural, unlike ANV, so that makes me wonder why two of you Arvan and slowpickr got so unlucky ending up with such GR pairs. Btw, my GR sounds ok with either black or red nozzle. I am using black.


----------



## mebaali

@rontant, and @Hisoundfi - Both of you are making some interesting impressions about DT3.  Is DT3 worth ordering for a person who is waiting to get his KZ EDSE, and ES ? I mean does it sound markedly different from these two to go for additional buying? (BTW, I have Pistons 2.1 and Soundmagic ES18. I listen mainly to EDM, and Post Rock using just about average smartphones/Laptops)
  
 Your views on this is much appreciated 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## mochill

The upgraded dt5 pole edition should be a big upgrade to the dt3


----------



## rontant

@mebaali, if I may suggest, wait until you get your ES and EDSE first before ordering DT3.  EDSE is not bad but personally I would choose ES over EDSE which I think is a bit claustrophobic when compared to ES. ES has the property of airiness and more depth.  By the way, DT3 and ES were released recently about the same time and both belong to a newer generation than than EDSE, so they probably employ newer technology as well. Personally I would rank them as follows:
  
 DT3 > ES > EDSE/GR
  
  
 I don't have DT5 that Mochil mentioned. Being the latest model, I won't be surprised if DT5 turns out to be much better than all its predecessors.


----------



## mebaali

@rontant - Thanks for your view, Mate! I will wait till I listen to ES/EDSE then


----------



## gabrielossw9

Heeey, my earphone is here 33 days from China to Brazil, fast than I think 
Good quality(and I didn't burn-in)
Kz ed 2, U$7,00


----------



## smy1

rontant said:


> I have no issue whatsoever with GR. It is quite balance across the spectrum. Vocals on GR are natural, unlike ANV, so that makes me wonder why two of you Arvan and slowpickr got so unlucky ending up with such GR pairs. Btw, my GR sounds ok with either black or red nozzle. I am using black.




Glad you like them I just ordered them few days ago. Also I heard on a aliexpress review how someone got 2 pair of GR ( or maybe it was somthing else) and they sounded completely different


----------



## Squalo

Anyone have any idea of how the bass on the LPS will be? I know we can't say based on the LP and LP2 really.. as the drivers are different..
  
 I've read a few impressions from the customers in China from taobao, using Google Translate, and there are a few mentions of the bass, like "bass is good", "bas could be more", "there is a lot of bass". Those kinds of passing comments.
  
 And anyone that bought this making any sense of the tracking information? Isn't it a normal tracking airmail number starting with R ending with CN?


----------



## altrunox

squalo said:


> Anyone have any idea of how the bass on the LPS will be? I know we can't say based on the LP and LP2 really.. as the drivers are different..
> 
> I've read a few impressions from the customers in China from taobao, using Google Translate, and there are a few mentions of the bass, like "bass is good", "bas could be more", "there is a lot of bass". Those kinds of passing comments.
> 
> And anyone that bought this making any sense of the tracking information? Isn't it a normal tracking airmail number starting with R ending with CN?


 
  
 95% of the feedback from amazon, aliexpress, taobao, and any other store are useless.
 Bhazard should be the first to get it, probably next week.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Notes on the KZ DT3

Very thick note presentation

Great imaging 

Better than average seperation

Very light housings

Cable cinch 

One of the key things not noted yet is the quality of the treble. It's very clear, reasonably well extended, and polite. The treble honestly sounds very high end. 

If you are sensitive to harsh or hot treble, and enjoy a warm signature, these might be right up your alley.


----------



## Arvan

Today i got the ED-special edition (edse) and the CM-9 
  
 EDSE was way better then i had imagined. Such great build quality! SQ is very nice. There is a elevated bass but bass-bleed is rather low. Treble and midrange is pretty evenly spread out and has no signs of sibliance. Great pair to go with a smartphone. Cable is superb and the remote seems very good as well. 
  
 the CM-9 which i wanted the most was DOA  Left earpiece is completely dead.. However they where very very comfy and are made of metal, i was expecting plastic. The cable is however the most microphonic thing i have ever used. It´s completely crap tbh.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Some people had a bad experience with the kzedse, but IMHO it's the best bang for your buck deal currently going.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Just got my KZ ES this morning! *Photos:* http://imgur.com/a/gLrSk
 Cost - $8.70 from Aliexpress. A seller, not the KZ store. 
  
 I'll have to listen some more, but so far I'm very impressed. I posted more detail in the Asian thread. DT3 ordered yesterday (before I got the ES).


----------



## BigGearHunter

The DT3 is getting a lot of praise lately. I'm glad I bought it, can't wait to get it


----------



## Arvan

hisoundfi said:


> Some people had a bad experience with the kzedse, but IMHO it's the best bang for your buck deal currently going.


 
 The bigges problem i have with it is that i have some what issues to get a proper seal. More so then i have with other iems. However, it´s sound signature is very easy to like. I´t has a little bit of everything..With a touch added bass..Perfect for cell-phone listening. That said i am a big fan of slightly leaner and more detailed headphones so i might check out the ES..Still bummed that my CM9 does not work


----------



## Hisoundfi

biggearhunter said:


> The DT3 is getting a lot of praise lately. I'm glad I bought it, can't wait to get it


It's a fun signature. Warm and smooth with loads of sub bass. 

The purists are going to say that they a veiled, or that the bass overwhelms everything else. Those who like a warm sound with plenty of sub bass and less harsh highs that still sparkle are going to like them.


----------



## Hisoundfi

arvan said:


> The bigges problem i have with it is that i have some what issues to get a proper seal. More so then i have with other iems. However, it´s sound signature is very easy to like. I´t has a little bit of everything..With a touch added bass..Perfect for cell-phone listening. That said i am a big fan of slightly leaner and more detailed headphones so i might check out the ES..Still bummed that my CM9 does not work


Sony hybrids and Lunashops gray/red tips work for me, but I say that for just about every iem I own.


----------



## Arvan

Tried sony hybrids, didnt work all that good. I can get a proper fit but i have to fiddle. Foam tips worked like a charm though.


----------



## smy1

arvan said:


> Today i got the ED-special edition (edse) and the CM-9
> 
> EDSE was way better then i had imagined. Such great build quality! SQ is very nice. There is a elevated bass but bass-bleed is rather low. Treble and midrange is pretty evenly spread out and has no signs of sibliance. Great pair to go with a smartphone. Cable is superb and the remote seems very good as well.
> 
> the CM-9 which i wanted the most was DOA  Left earpiece is completely dead.. However they where very very comfy and are made of metal, i was expecting plastic. The cable is however the most microphonic thing i have ever used. It´s completely crap tbh.


 
 are the cm9 sound any good?


----------



## Arvan

Wish i knew, The left channel was dead on my pair.. From what i heard on the right one they are very balanced.. Can´t really tell


----------



## Ira Delphic

arvan said:


> Wish i knew, The left channel was dead on my pair.. From what i heard on the right one they are very balanced.. Can´t really tell


 
  
 Let us know how the RMA/refund goes. Not much money involved but it would be good to know.


----------



## Arvan

ira delphic said:


> Let us know how the RMA/refund goes. Not much money involved but it would be good to know.


 
  
 All i can say for now is that it is REALLY hard to have a conversation with the person at " kz official flagship store " Even very VERY simple English is hard for them to understand. However, not much money involved and i will absolutely not send them back for a refund or something like that


----------



## Milanche78

*Are you telling me that no1 had any functional problems with the KZ earphones? *
  
 I received mine ED special edition with the microphone, and they are completely useless for mobile devices, I can only use them on my PC, but that is not the reason I bought them.
  
 I have tried them on several devices, Iphone, Samsung  android phone even chinese made phone and there is something wrong, because *the connection is lost after the slightest movement.*
  
 I dont know what is the reason, incompatible plug or bad wires, but I wasted 10$, I will  contact the seller again and see what he can offer.


----------



## Arvan

To cheap to send back, hopefully they just send you another set or a refund.


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> Notes on the KZ DT3
> 
> Very thick note presentation
> 
> ...


 

 +1
 They are good looking too. Easy to tip-roll, fit comfortably.


----------



## BigGearHunter

One thing I _was _wondering about was the durability. What are your guys' thoughts on that?


----------



## Arvan

rontant said:


> +1
> They are good looking too. Easy to tip-roll, fit comfortably.


 
 Metal housings?


----------



## Arvan

ira delphic said:


> Let us know how the RMA/refund goes. Not much money involved but it would be good to know.


 
  
 Oh boy! After alot hard work i got a replacement. I think it was the language barrier that was the problem...But it turned out good in the end ( hopefully )


----------



## Shawn71

arvan said:


> Metal housings?




cld be nozzle/lip.....


----------



## rontant

Yes, metal housing and metal nozzle.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> Yes, metal housing and metal nozzle.


sorry to say, they are plastic, I found this out when cleaning my pair with alcohol wipes and noticed the silver finish was coming off, exposing the off white plastic underneath.


----------



## rontant

They sure fooled ma eyes.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> They sure fooled ma eyes.


 
 Mine too, I wouldn't have been using alcohol wipes on the housings if I thought it was silver paint over plastic.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm very curious about what is causing people to get a muffled sound on their KZ GR. I'm listening to mine with the red filters and they sound a lot like the KC06 or KC06A, which is the opposite of muffled.
  
 Just curious, are you guys using tips that DO NOT cover the small pinhole on the red filter? This has to be the case.
  
 Either this, or it is definitely a manufacturer defect.
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> I'm very curious about what is causing people to get a muffled sound on their KZ GR. I'm listening to mine with the red filters and they sound a lot like the KC06 or KC06A, which is the opposite of muffled.
> 
> Just curious, are you guys using tips that DO NOT cover the small pinhole on the red filter? This has to be the case.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll check the pinhole this evening.  Note though that I have tried stock tips, Sony hybrids, and wide bore tips all to no avail.  Can't imagine covering a pinhole with these.  But, you never know, so I'll double check.  It's like night and day comparing the GR's to my KC06A's.


----------



## DynamikeB

My KZ GR sounds ok with the red nozzle.  Cool sound for the price,  But I still prefer the KZ SE by a mile.  They have more everything (bass, clarity, life).  Still I don't think they measure up with the KCO6A at all.  Ostry's are more precise and you feel/hear the sound quality in them.  KZ models are no match for the comfort of the KC06A for me.  Still I really like the fun factor the KZ SE provide for the price.  Awesome built and cable also.
  
 I am now waiting for the delivery of my KZ ES and KZ DT3 pack and looking forward to compare them with the rest.  Compare and appreciate.  The key word for me is «appreciation».  Through all these nice products/iems, I appreciate my music differently.  And like many others here, I finally end up sticking to the most fun and quality ones, getting back from time to time to the other ones to compare and appreciate differently.
  
 Huge thanks to everyone hear for the input, the commentaries and the helpful suggestions and feedback.  It's a joy to discover all this.


----------



## gecko92

The more I read this thread, the more kz products I buy!
 I already have the ES and the EDSE, and I'm waiting for the GR and the LPS to arrive.
 The EDSE and ES are both great, their sound is quite similar. The only difference my inexperienced ears can notice is the quantity of bass (more on the EDSE, less on the ES).
 The quality/price ratio on these is astonishing. The build quality is top notch. They cost so little that I always get the temptation to buy another one!
 If this is a marketing strategy, it's working very well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I can't wait for my DT3 to arrive. I'm impressed with the ES for the price!


----------



## DynamikeB

Interesting comparison, thanks.  I don't have the Pistons, but I wait for the other two to come in the mail soon.  Looking forward to it.


----------



## mebaali

After 30 days of waiting, just received my KZ EDSE and ES this evening!
  

  

  
  
 Out of the box impressions - both sounding too good for such low price. Using MP3 files (Best of Italo Disco collection) of 320 kbps on a Transcend MP350 player, EDSE in particular giving very stiff competition to my existing Pistons 2.1 (with over 100 Hours of Burn-in). In fact, I am finding EDSE to be having more clear Mids and tighter Bass in comparison to Pistons. ES on the other hand, sounds somewhat similar to EDSE albeit with slightly lesser bass (or is it more high). I am hoping with more usage these phones are going to get only better.
  
 This is my first experience with Aliexpress and it's been a fantastic one (now eagerly awaiting for the arrival of KZ LPS) 
  
 (Sorry for the poor pic quality)


----------



## Ira Delphic

dynamikeb said:


> Interesting comparison, thanks.  I don't have the Pistons, but I wait for the other two to come in the mail soon.  Looking forward to it.


 
  
 I did a comparison of KZ ES vs. Xiaomi Piston 2.1 but moved it to: 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/10065#post_11007071
  
 I was indecisive and under caffeinated this morning!


----------



## BigGearHunter

That is pretty sweet, Mebaali. Congrats, when are your LPSs getting to you?


----------



## mebaali

biggearhunter said:


> That is pretty sweet, Mebaali. Congrats, when are your LPSs getting to you?


 

 Thanks, mate! 
  
  
 LPS is still in transit and I expect similar time frame (at least 30 days) for it to arrive (That means 3rd week of November   )


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> I'm very curious about what is causing people to get a muffled sound on their KZ GR. I'm listening to mine with the red filters and they sound a lot like the KC06 or KC06A, which is the opposite of muffled.
> 
> Just curious, are you guys using tips that DO NOT cover the small pinhole on the red filter? This has to be the case.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey bro.  I checked for this "pinhole" on the filters/IEM body.  I can't see anything other than the 4 or 5 on the large part of the IEM body.  I'm currently using MH1C tips.  The end of the tip barrel slips over the "lip" at the end of the filter (red in this case) and stops at the bottom of the groove (opposite the end).  Best way I know how to describe it.


----------



## bhazard

DT3 is the best one so far.


----------



## Arvan

hisoundfi said:


> I'm very curious about what is causing people to get a muffled sound on their KZ GR. I'm listening to mine with the red filters and they sound a lot like the KC06 or KC06A, which is the opposite of muffled.
> 
> Just curious, are you guys using tips that DO NOT cover the small pinhole on the red filter? This has to be the case.
> 
> ...


 
 I dont have any pinhole in either of the filters.. Can you share a picture ?


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> Hey bro.  I checked for this "pinhole" on the filters/IEM body.  I can't see anything other than the 4 or 5 on the large part of the IEM body.  I'm currently using MH1C tips.  The end of the tip barrel slips over the "lip" at the end of the filter (red in this case) and stops at the bottom of the groove (opposite the end).  Best way I know how to describe it.


pull the silicone tip off of the red filter. Inspect the outside of the red tuning filter. You should see a hole like this... 

Make sure your iem tip isn't covering this hole on the red tuning filter. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## Hisoundfi

If you are getting any type of driver flex when inserting them, it's an indicator that that hole on the tuning filter is being plugged by your iem tip.


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> DT3 is the best one so far.


I agree it's one of KZ's best so far.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Your tip should go this far onto the filter. Any further and you have gone too far and distorted the sound.


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> pull the silicone tip off of the red filter. Inspect the outside of the red tuning filter. You should see a hole like this...
> 
> Make sure your iem tip isn't covering this hole on the red tuning filter.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
  
 Well, this explains it.  Neither set of filters on my GRs have the pinholes.  They even look different (see photo).  The KZ employee who handled my set must have left off a small but important step.


----------



## Hisoundfi

That Sux 

Pretty much makes the tuning filters useless, unless the vent hole is somewhere else.


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> That Sux
> 
> Pretty much makes the tuning filters useless, unless the vent hole is somewhere else.


 
  
 Yes it does.  Might as well throw the whole thing in the trash. Don't have a drill bit that small nor do I know where I could get one.
  
 Does the ANV have pinholes anywhere?  My set does not.


----------



## peter123

bhazard said:


> DT3 is the best one so far.




Sounds good as my DT3 and ES reached Norway today. With a bit of luck I'll get them tomorrow............


----------



## ndburley

I have the KZ RX but although bass punches in when it does its like listening to your headphones covered in tissue. It over powers the top end and ends up very mucky sounding.


----------



## Arvan

Spent some time with the EDSE hooked up to my HRT Headstreamer.. Damn these sound great to my ears! So mellow yet detailed in the right places..More to my liking the the Piston 2.0 for sure.. 
  
@Hisoundfi i dont have any holes in my filters...I guess you just have to accept things like this when buying cheap stuff. Thanks for the picture though!


----------



## nismo88

slowpickr said:


> Well, this explains it.  Neither set of filters on my GRs have the pinholes.  They even look different (see photo).  The KZ employee who handled my set must have left off a small but important step.


 

 Mine is the same as yours and it sounds muffled... at least we know why now...


----------



## Hisoundfi

I would file a complaint. The pictures of those filters don't match the pictures of their online store model.


----------



## rontant

GR filters


----------



## Shawn71

hisoundfi said:


> I would file a complaint. The pictures of those filters don't match the pictures of their online store model.




And its different as well from what you have?...if possible post yours and link the online picture that you referring to?....

Edit>>> NM....just saw your picture above....


----------



## rontant

bhazard said:


> DT3 is the best one so far.


 
  


hisoundfi said:


> I agree it's one of KZ's best so far.


 
  
 DT3 is _almost _as good as my IM70. I said "almost" because IM70 has better clarity especially the mids but of course IM70 costs 10 times more than DT3.


----------



## michele009

i've just put my hands on kz es and now I discover that I NEED to buy dt3 too...but I'll wait for a good price drop since its price atm is way above kz standards.

 Another thing, somebody tried the kz dt5 already?


----------



## Shawn71

bhazard said:


> DT3 is the best one so far.







hisoundfi said:


> I agree it's one of KZ's best so far.




:rolleyes:


----------



## Shawn71

michele009 said:


> i've just put my hands on kz es and now I discover that I NEED to buy dt3 too...but I'll wait for a good price drop since its price atm is way above kz standards.




$12.xx a good deal? Just found that,link below.....

 http://m.aliexpress.com/item/2050280048.html


----------



## mebaali

After just 10 hours of exposure to Pink noise, my ES has started sounding completely different from what it was last evening. Right now, It is easily over taking my EDSE in terms of clarity and highs (even the Bass seems to have become more pronounced now). Not finding much difference in the sound of EDSE though. #StillEarlyDays #NewToySyndrome ?


----------



## mcmarty

Hey y'all, long time lurker first time poster here.
  
 I hopped on the KZ bandwagon a few months ago and ordered various headphones on Aliexpress. Among others I got myself the gk-gx or g.k-gx ( http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6270014451.html ). Since I liked them I went back to the seller (kz earphone official flagship store) and ordered a few more pairs to give away as gifts. A few days ago I received them. They sound ok/good but don't look like the headphones on the product page/the pair I bought earlier (here's a link to the picture: http://imgur.com/8uPGpIM ). I tried to ask the seller about it but somehow his English/translation app isn't very good. He just doesn't get what I'm asking.
  
 Does anyone else have those headphones in this version? Has anyone run into unannounced re-designs from KZ?


----------



## Arvan

mcmarty said:


> Hey y'all, long time lurker first time poster here.
> 
> I hopped on the KZ bandwagon a few months ago and ordered various headphones on Aliexpress. Among others I got myself the gk-gx or g.k-gx ( http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6270014451.html ). Since I liked them I went back to the seller (kz earphone official flagship store) and ordered a few more pairs to give away as gifts. A few days ago I received them. They sound ok/good but don't look like the headphones on the product page/the pair I bought earlier (here's a link to the picture: http://imgur.com/8uPGpIM ). I tried to ask the seller about it but somehow his English/translation app isn't very good. He just doesn't get what I'm asking.
> 
> Does anyone else have those headphones in this version? Has anyone run into unannounced re-designs from KZ?


 
 I feel you about the language issue. I had very much trouble to get my cm-9 replaced. Also this seller sold me the KZ-GR with totally wrong filters. They have good prices most of the time even though they are now higher then yesterday. However i don´t think i will buy from this seller again since 2 out of 3 earphones can´t really be used properly.


----------



## Milanche78

I got bad EDSE, asked for replacement, will see, if he doesnt send I will never recommend him again, and I can see that he made a good reputation for the past few weeks.


----------



## ndburley

I got the KZ RX out again and gave them a blast through my X1 and to be honest the bass is very impressive but does lack in treble if you listen to something like Breathe by The Prodigy which is a favourite song of mine for testing some headphones. 
 Overall I paid £4 for these and I cannot complain at all for the price and if you are all about the bass and little treble these will lay it down for you at a very low price from Aliexpress.


----------



## ndburley

I have also got some of the kz- Platinum Limited Edition making there way over to me, I will post a picture once they arrive and a little info


----------



## smy1

shawn71 said:


> $12.xx a good deal? Just found that,link below.....
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/2050280048.html




Just order it from kz official store


----------



## BigGearHunter

ndburley said:


> I have also got some of the kz- Platinum Limited Edition making there way over to me, I will post a picture once they arrive and a little info


 

 Woo! Looking forward to that


----------



## smy1

mebaali said:


> After just 10 hours of exposure to Pink noise, my ES has started sounding completely different from what it was last evening. Right now, It is easily over taking my EDSE in terms of clarity and highs (even the Bass seems to have become more pronounced now). Not finding much difference in the sound of EDSE though. #StillEarlyDays #NewToySyndrome ?




Same when I first listen to my es the bass was wierd now it's more tight after maybe 50 hours my es got warmer


----------



## Shawn71

ndburley said:


> I got the KZ RX out again and gave them a blast through my X1 and to be honest the bass is very impressive but does lack in treble if you listen to something like Breathe by The Prodigy which is a favourite song of mine for testing some headphones.
> Overall I paid £4 for these and I cannot complain at all for the price and if you are all about the bass and little treble these will lay it down for you at a very low price from Aliexpress.




damn sexy....


----------



## Shawn71

smy1 said:


> Just order it from kz official store




my bad....its just for you......as you were looking for a good deal on dt3 and yeah Ive already the combo pairs for $12.40 last week.....dont rember exactly what models now.....err....KZ release a model a day...


----------



## smy1

shawn71 said:


> my bad....its just for you......as you were looking for a good deal on dt3 and yeah Ive already the combo pairs for $12.40 last week.....dont rember exactly what models now.....err....KZ release a model a day...




No need to apologies I just wanted to make sure you don't order it from some bad rep person and never got ur product etc


----------



## smy1

ndburley said:


> I got the KZ RX out again and gave them a blast through my X1 and to be honest the bass is very impressive but does lack in treble if you listen to something like Breathe by The Prodigy which is a favourite song of mine for testing some headphones.
> Overall I paid £4 for these and I cannot complain at all for the price and if you are all about the bass and little treble these will lay it down for you at a very low price from Aliexpress.




You think those are good for dubstep/vocal/chillstep?


----------



## Shawn71

smy1 said:


> No need to apologies I just wanted to make sure you don't order it from some bad rep person and never got ur product etc




hell yeah.....abt AE.....


----------



## ndburley

These are all about bass, the treble takes a little back step when you call on the bass, a little like the Terminator pushing people out the way at a night club. He comes to the front and you can see the treble behind him but OMG its the Bass standing in front! If I compare them to my Soundmagic E10 I prefer the SM as the top end is still crystal and the bass is still rubbing your brain with its thumps. If listening to Pink Floyd or the Eagles the KZ RX I would not recommend but if you want some hip hop or dub and you like trying to force your brain out of your nose with each bass beat (I mean that in a good way not painful) then the KZ RX will do you proud.


----------



## bhazard

smy1 said:


> You think those are good for dubstep/vocal/chillstep?


 

 The original KZ-RX is terrible. I don't recommend them.


----------



## ndburley

bhazard said:


> The original KZ-RX is terrible. I don't recommend them.


 
 But for £4 not bad, you could get a set of pistons I have heard good things but only giving an opinion based on how cheap they are.


----------



## BigGearHunter

New KZ IEM? You better believe it!
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-rs1-ear-headphones-phone-headset-music-earphone-metal-earphone-HIFI-headset-Universal-Headset/1380688_32224867184.html
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## fnkcow

Probably the only earphones company at present time from which our latest purchases become out-dated even before they arrive at our doorstep. Man they do extremely FAST releases!!


----------



## ndburley

biggearhunter said:


> New KZ IEM? You better believe it!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-rs1-ear-headphones-phone-headset-music-earphone-metal-earphone-HIFI-headset-Universal-Headset/1380688_32224867184.html
> 
> Thoughts?


 
 I dont want to ignite a flame in my heart I have heard that is bad for you but they look good, a lot like the pistons but still look good!


----------



## bhazard

biggearhunter said:


> New KZ IEM? You better believe it!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-rs1-ear-headphones-phone-headset-music-earphone-metal-earphone-HIFI-headset-Universal-Headset/1380688_32224867184.html
> 
> Thoughts?


 

 Not new. I've them for months.
  
 Like the RX, they are all bass and nothing else.  Save your $.


----------



## peter123

biggearhunter said:


> New KZ IEM? You better believe it!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/gk-rs1-ear-headphones-phone-headset-music-earphone-metal-earphone-HIFI-headset-Universal-Headset/1380688_32224867184.html
> 
> Thoughts?




I bet it'll sound decent for $12  




fnkcow said:


> Probably the only earphones company at present time from which our latest purchases become out-dated even before they arrive at our doorstep. Man they do extremely FAST releases!!




Lol, you're right. My dt3 and es didn't arrived today either and now they're old. Does that qualify for a refund?


----------



## BigGearHunter

bhazard said:


> Not new. I've them for months.
> 
> Like the RX, they are all bass and nothing else.  Save your $.


 

 Oh, I didn't realize that. I hadn't seen those before, so thanks for correcting me


----------



## fnkcow

peter123 said:


> Lol, you're right. My dt3 and es didn't arrived today either and now they're old. Does that qualify for a refund?


 
 Just awe-struck that they pretty much come up with a new release each month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Yeah we didn't jump in to buy new products just to find out they are already outdated we demand a refund!


----------



## smy1

ndburley said:


> I dont want to ignite a flame in my heart I have heard that is bad for you but they look good, a lot like the pistons but still look good!




Pistons are very good but I think the kz es is better


----------



## Arvan

smy1 said:


> Pistons are very good but I think the kz es is better


 
 I think the KZ-EDSE is better then the piston as well..The cable is much better! But for me as an android user.. The remote sure is handy.


----------



## B9Scrambler

arvan said:


> I think the KZ-EDSE is better then the piston as well..The cable is much better! But for me as an android user.. The remote sure is handy.




My Pistons and EDSE should be arriving sometime next week. These comparisons sound interesting. Let's see how the Micro Ring stands up to the other two, because they're on the way as well.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I've been jamming my KZ DT3 all day. I have to say that these have pretty incredible bass that extends to the center of the earth and beyond. It's constant sub rumble that I really enjoy. It's a very chill and warm sound I can enjoy for hours. These things are amazeballs for genres like chill wave.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I don't know if I'm the only one getting this impression but it seems that KZs latest offerings, they are focusing on trying to make their products sound more spacious, transparent and airy. I like it


----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> I don't know if I'm the only one getting this impression but it seems that KZs latest offerings, they are focusing on trying to make their products sound more spacious, transparent and airy. I like it


 
 New drivers it seems. They could be more advanced overall.


----------



## Ira Delphic

bhazard said:


> New drivers it seems. They could be more advanced overall.


 
  
 Does the KZ ES have new or old drivers?


----------



## Gandroid

Anyone figured out the difference between dt5 tone pole (?!?) which is for US$28 and the other dt5 music headset which is listed for $88 in Ali.
  
 I looked into the KZ's site and couldn't figure this out:
  
 http://www.kzearphone.com/English/


----------



## HraD2

Mine dt5 pole position is on the way...


----------



## peter123

Finally:



Edit: Initial impression straight out of the box is the dt3 is overly bassy in the same way as the edse while the ES sounds very promising. Now burn for 10,000 hours


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> Finally:




so jelly right now, lol. mine are "out for delivery". pacing around my house impatiently waiting...


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> so jelly right now, lol. mine are "out for delivery". pacing around my house impatiently waiting...




Which ones are you getting?


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> Which ones are you getting?




EDse and Micro Ring. Wanted to have them for work so I could start the burn in process. They still have 5 mins before I leave...c'mon Canada Post!!!


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> EDse and Micro Ring. Wanted to have them for work so I could start the burn in process. They still have 5 mins before I leave...c'mon Canada Post!!!




Nice


----------



## BigGearHunter

b9scrambler said:


> EDse and Micro Ring. Wanted to have them for work so I could start the burn in process. They still have 5 mins before I leave...c'mon Canada Post!!!


 

 The box pictures that have been posted lately are awesome. Think you could do that for your models?


----------



## lucuzzu

Hi guys, very compliments for the community.
 I've red a lot of page of the thread and i'm undecided regarding these packages:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Package-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headphones-sound-bass-headset-phone-headset-with-a-microphone-version-kz-dt3/1380688_2045272833.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/The-new-package-with-a-headset-phone-headset-ear-headphones-music-headphones-kz-dt3-and-gk/1380688_2045273217.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Package-kz-ed-Special-Edition-with-gk-gr-and-kz-es-wire-headset-with-a-microphone/1380688_32218024603.html
  
 I need obviously two pair of earphone one with mic (android) and one without it.
 In your opinion, which is the best set?
  
 Thanks a lot guys!
 Bye,
 Luca


----------



## B9Scrambler

biggearhunter said:


> The box pictures that have been posted lately are awesome. Think you could do that for your models?




I sure can. Unfortunately, one of the boxes was pretty badly damaged in shipping. IEMs were fine though.

 Sort of....they didn't glue the left housing together on the Micro Ring. Have to fix that before I try them, lol. Using the right driver only, they sound like they will be nice after some tip rolling.

The EDse are wayyyyyy nicer than I was expecting tbh. They have a nice airy, crisp, and engaging sound backed by punchy bass. They are more or less what I was expecting from the Huwai Honor. They are not too forgiving with crappy recordings. Will have to try some quality tunes when I get home from work, and then post pictures. Wort wort wort!

*Micro Ring fixed. I....love...these....things! The soundstage is huge!!!*


----------



## crow1994

Listen to Micro Ring with foam tips. Sound is becoming really better.


----------



## BigGearHunter

b9scrambler said:


> I sure can. Unfortunately, one of the boxes was pretty badly damaged in shipping. IEMs were fine though.
> 
> Sort of....they didn't glue the left housing together on the Micro Ring. Have to fix that before I try them, lol. Using the right driver only, they sound like they will be nice after some tip rolling.
> 
> ...


 

 Pictures my man, pictures please!


----------



## Milanche78

I have just received the Micro Rings, haven't tried them yet because it is very hard to change the tips on these. The plug is different to KDSE, hope will work better .


----------



## Milanche78

lucuzzu said:


> Hi I need obviously two pair of earphone one with mic (android) and one without it.
> In your opinion, which is the best set?
> 
> Thanks a lot guys!
> ...



The mic on mine KD special edition doesn't work, another model with the mic is ES, but they have the same plug,so.....


----------



## Arvan

My remote worked like a charm, what phone do you use? I use a LG G2


----------



## B9Scrambler

biggearhunter said:


> Pictures my man, pictures please!


 
 Oh...you mean these? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


  
  
  
 Not sure why the first Micro Ring image is upside down...*shrug*


----------



## BigGearHunter

b9scrambler said:


> Oh...you mean these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Those are sweet, thanks! So you're really enjoying both your pairs, huh?


----------



## B9Scrambler

biggearhunter said:


> Those are sweet, thanks! So you're really enjoying both your pairs, huh?



Yup, but I prefer the Micro hands down. Bass isn't quite as engaging but the mids are more forward. Soundstage is fantastic. I find the EDse get a little too simblant for my liking, which is an issue the Micros do not have.

Also, these just arrived! Was not expecting them for a couple days as they were still showing as being in 'Richmond' (where ever the heck that is) when I checked the tracking this morning. Interested to see how they compare to the EDse.


----------



## Milanche78

arvan said:


> My remote worked like a charm, what phone do you use? I use a LG G2



I have chinese Coolpad F1 and also have connection problems with the micro ring, might be that L shaped plug. Maybe I should have bought the Pistons instead of these 2.


----------



## bhazard

I got the DT5 PLE in. Out of the box, it doesn't really beat the DT3. Same issues with bass, but the treble isn't as good as the DT3 (which is already rolled off). Need to tip roll and burn a bit.


----------



## mochill

Any more information on the ple


----------



## BigGearHunter

bhazard said:


> I got the DT5 PLE in. Out of the box, it doesn't really beat the DT3. Same issues with bass, but the treble isn't as good as the DT3 (which is already rolled off). Need to tip roll and burn a bit.


 

 Oh man, that's interesting. Didn't you also have the LPS on the way?


----------



## B9Scrambler

crow1994 said:


> Listen to Micro Ring with foam tips. Sound is becoming really better.




I don't have any that fit unfortunately, but, I did find and force on a super generic set of med silicone tips from some unknown earphone in my collection that work perfectly. The Micro Ring should not be underestimated, muahahahahhaha!!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

milanche78 said:


> I have chinese Coolpad F1 and also have connection problems with the micro ring, might be that L shaped plug. Maybe I should have bought the Pistons instead of these 2.




This may be an odd suggestion, but make sure you don't have any fuzz/pocket lint stuck in the headphone jack. I've had that happen...phones seem to slot in normally but they are raised just far enough to occasionally lose proper contact.


----------



## bhazard

Got the LP-S today. Absolutely worth it for $26 just a few min in.
  
 Looks wise, it almost looks identical to the old LP. I thought I was jipped for a few seconds, but the headband is improved with a nice fake leather, inner pads are a different color, and the sound signature is different.
  
 Great sub bass kick and slightly better highs over the old LP.


----------



## altrunox

bhazard said:


> Got the LP-S today. Absolutely worth it for $26 just a few min in.
> 
> Looks wise, it almost looks identical to the old LP. I thought I was jipped for a few seconds, but the headband is improved with a nice fake leather, inner pads are a different color, and the sound signature is different.
> 
> Great sub bass kick and slightly better highs over the old LP.


 
  
 Pics or fake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
 Had the case?


----------



## bhazard

altrunox said:


> Pics or fake
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## clee290

Nice! Mine just reached Canada (though I'm on the opposite side of the country), so I should be getting it on Monday or, if I'm lucky, end of this week.


----------



## RedJohn456

For those of you in Canada (specially Toronto), how long do Aliexpress orders take to come in?


----------



## clee290

redjohn456 said:


> For those of you in Canada (specially Toronto), how long do Aliexpress orders take to come in?


 

 I'm in Quebec, but usually around 3 weeks (2 if I'm lucky, 4+ if I'm not ).


----------



## dflock

How are pads? Would the vmoda XL pads fit? I am assuming they are same design specs as Vmoda LP. Mine should be here with in a week. Im excited.



bhazard said:


> Got the LP-S today. Absolutely worth it for $26 just a few min in.
> 
> Looks wise, it almost looks identical to the old LP. I thought I was jipped for a few seconds, but the headband is improved with a nice fake leather, inner pads are a different color, and the sound signature is different.
> 
> Great sub bass kick and slightly better highs over the old LP.


----------



## B9Scrambler

redjohn456 said:


> For those of you in Canada (specially Toronto), how long do Aliexpress orders take to come in?




Mine also have taken anywhere from 2-4 weeks. I'm near London. I find they get stuck in Richmond (?) for almost a solid week when they get here.


----------



## altrunox

bhazard said:


>


 
  
 US$26 with free shipping for that?!
 LOL, impossible!
 Still waiting for mine.


----------



## Hisoundfi

That case is pretty darn sweet! What is it made out of?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Is the cable removable?


----------



## fnkcow

bhazard said:


> Got the LP-S today. Absolutely worth it for $26 just a few min in.
> 
> Looks wise, it almost looks identical to the old LP. I thought I was jipped for a few seconds, but the headband is improved with a nice fake leather, inner pads are a different color, and the sound signature is different.
> 
> Great sub bass kick and slightly better highs over the old LP.


 
 Yay for buying blind and finding a gem!


----------



## mammoth1981

I ordered a pair of KZ ED2 from an Aliexpress seller for less than $9 (incl shipping) on the 31st of October and they arrived yesterday. They're ridiculously good earphones for the price. I was concerned that they may be fakes, being as many other sellers are charging $26 or more - but even if they are fake, after listening to them I don't care. The only problem is that they're not intended for me, but rather as a gift for someone else. Should have bought 2 pairs!
  
 Is it normal to only pay $9 for these? How can they make such good quality earphones and sell them for so little?


----------



## peter123

mammoth1981 said:


> I ordered a pair of KZ ED2 from an Aliexpress seller for less than $9 (incl shipping) on the 31st of October and they arrived yesterday. They're ridiculously good earphones for the price. I was concerned that they may be fakes, being as many other sellers are charging $26 or more - but even if they are fake, after listening to them I don't care. The only problem is that they're not intended for me, but rather as a gift for someone else. Should have bought 2 pairs!
> 
> Is it normal to only pay $9 for these? How can they make such good quality earphones and sell them for so little?


 
 Yep, $9 is normal. Prices on KZ products tend to vary pretty radically.


----------



## bhazard

fnkcow said:


> Yay for buying blind and finding a gem!


 
 Not blind. I paid $45+ for the original LP and liked it. This one is even better. Better build quality and sound.
  
 Cable is removable. Only comes with a tweed cable, but it is nice.


----------



## fnkcow

bhazard said:


> Not blind. I paid $45+ for the original LP and liked it. This one is even better. Better build quality and sound.
> 
> Cable is removable. Only comes with a tweed cable, but it is nice.


 
 The next in line might not be better than the original. LP2 wasn't that great. Same goes for Havi B3 Pro II
 But yeah, probably wrong word used, more like a leap of faith


----------



## BigGearHunter

fnkcow said:


> The next in line might not be better than the original. LP2 wasn't that great. Same goes for Havi B3 Pro II
> But yeah, probably wrong word used, more like a leap of faith


 

 The next one is already out, it's the LPT. It's considerably more expensive and seems to be in a similar body, so who knows.


----------



## DynamikeB

Received my KZ ES and KZ DT3 yesterday.  Out of the box, I need to say wow to the KZ ES.  Time will tell but my first impression is that they are slightly better than KZ SE, really fun and open. Let's see with burn in.  Wow, for the price of both, what you get...
  
 As for DT3, I found them (like a few people here) quite bassy from the start.  I will burn them in some more and see how it goes.
  
 Still, for such low prices, it is really awesome the quality you get.  Sound, cables, etc.  Impressed.


----------



## RedJohn456

I pulled the trigger and ended up buying the KZ EDSE and the ED3 from Penon. They should be here shortly. What other KZ models are highly regarded? I would prefer a more balanced signature as opposed to a basshead one. Cheers


----------



## Hisoundfi

KZ EDSE is still my favorite so far, but I still have a few on the way. I love the intimate soundstage. They sound very lush and I like the mid presence and imaging.
  
 Second place so far goes to KZ GR. It's a shame some people report jank tuning filters. These things are awesomesauce with a side of epicwedges with the red filters and a good sealing tip.
  
 Third place goes to the DT3. It's a very warm signature, but it has a very nice and complimenting upper mids and treble
  
 Fourth place is a tie between the Micro Ring and ES. Both are good in their own way and might rally for the top spot, but for me... getting a tip to stay in my ear with the micro ring was a PITA. Also, with the ES, there were some tracks (even at a conservative volume) that had so much harshness in the highs that I had to reach for the volume and turn it down. Both had more good than bad aspects. Many will like the ES who don't mind a slight peak in the treble area
  
 Fifth place goes to the KZ ED3. It's a good earphone, just not something I was as impressed with. Those not sensitive to hot treble will enjoy this one.
  
 Sixth place goes to the KZ R3. Its a warm and bassy sound that isn't amazing, but dude, they are made out of wood and have detachable cables. It's honestly just a neat IEM to have, and has an easy to listen to type of signature.
  
 Seventh place goes to the KZ CM9. It's a slight vsignature that sounds decent, but the highs can be harsh, and the fact that these don't have a cable cinch and are designed to be worn down I had a hard time wearing them. Worth the money you pay for them, but I don't have much patience for iems that fall out of my ears every time I turn my head.
  
 Eighth place goes to the KZ ANV. The build quality in unbelievable. It looks like a 500-600 dollar IEM when hoding it in my hands. It is beautiful honestly. Too bad it sounds like a pair of phones you can get at the hardware store.
  
 Last place goes to the KZ RX. It's all bass, and the rest sounds stuffy. Basshead in a bad way.
  
 Just my two cents on this
  
 Cheers


----------



## RedJohn456

clee290 said:


> I'm in Quebec, but usually around 3 weeks (2 if I'm lucky, 4+ if I'm not ).


 
  
 C'est la vie mes amis 


b9scrambler said:


> Mine also have taken anywhere from 2-4 weeks. I'm near London. I find they get stuck in Richmond (?) for almost a solid week when they get here.


 
  
 Oh sweet, I lived in London for a couple of years. So I have more peace of mind about buying from aliexpress, since it should be the same time frame to get to Toronto.
  


hisoundfi said:


> KZ EDSE is still my favorite so far, but I still have a few on the way. I love the intimate soundstage. They sound very lush and I like the mid presence and imaging.
> 
> Second place so far goes to KZ GR. It's a shame some people report jank tuning filters. These things are awesomesauce with a side of epicwedges with the red filters and a good sealing tip.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Holy moly, thanks for the detailed write up! Am a fan of your posts    I atleast picked one good one; the EDSE is up there but the ED3 doesn't seem to be as highly regarded. I am going to try the rest on your list at some point though.
  
 Would you mind elaborating on the KZ GR, your description has be intrigued. Jank filters aka qc issues? I always have the worst luck when it comes to headphones anyway. How common would they be?
  
 and LOL at 8th place sounding like hardware store headphones haha


----------



## bhazard

The GR with the red filter sounds great, but people have been reporting it to sound bad lately. Possibly a new batch that sucks maybe?
  
 These are not flagship IEMs by any means (not yet), and should not be confused as such. They represent a good value for the price.


----------



## mochill

Kz es


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> Eighth place goes to the KZ ANV. The build quality in unbelievable. It looks like a 500-600 dollar IEM when hoding it in my hands. It is beautiful honestly. Too bad it sounds like a pair of phones you can get at the hardware store.


 






Very apt portrayal of ANV! How I wish I had the tools and skill to transplant the guts of my MH1a into this KZ ANV.


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> The GR with the red filter sounds great, but people have been reporting it to sound bad lately. Possibly a new batch that sucks maybe?
> 
> These are not flagship IEMs by any means (not yet), and should not be confused as such. They represent a good value for the price.


A few pages back we figured out that it was an issue with filters. The people who are experiencing poor sound got red filters without vent holes.


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> A few pages back we figured out that it was an issue with filters. The people who are experiencing poor sound got red filters without vent holes.


 
  
 Yep, both my red and black filters are missing vent holes which really affects sound in a negative way.  The GRs have now been passed along to my kid.  It's too bad because they seemed to be very good quality.
  
 BTW, I messaged the KZ Official Flagship Store yesterday about the filters.  I was thinking that they might send replacements.  Let's just say that the communications were very "cumbersome" due to the language gap.  Basically, they wouldn't ship replacements unless I paid them $3 to $5.  I don't buy this because I have purchased shirt clips off of ebay for 99 cents shipped from China.  Anyway, I respectfully declined.  Might as well order a different model or wait until another KZ model comes out that blows them all away.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> KZ EDSE is still my favorite so far, but I still have a few on the way. I love the intimate soundstage. They sound very lush and I like the mid presence and imaging.
> 
> Second place so far goes to KZ GR. It's a shame some people report jank tuning filters. These things are awesomesauce with a side of epicwedges with the red filters and a good sealing tip.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the awesome summary of each. That'll help big time as I am planning on picking up more KZ IEMs in the new year. Since I only have the EDse and Micro Ring, I can only comment on those.
  
 While I love the EDse, the cable especially (looks great, has no memory, and is nice and plush at the same time), the Micro Ring with a proper seal dances around it when it comes to forwardness of the mids and soundstage. I also find the EDse gets a little simblant, which the Micro Ring avoids.
  
 They haven't left my ears since I found a set of tips that actually work well; the included ones were useless. Only the med size (the left of which was torn out of the box...) were actually designed for that style of IEM. The small and large were standard tips and weren't long enough and slipped off by themselves after few seconds if you left them alone. I ended up using a set of tips from a more standard nozzled IEM in the end, but they work perfectly. I've been 'burning' in my silver Pistons and EDse, but I see no reason to use either at this point.


----------



## Hisoundfi

b9scrambler said:


> Thank you for the awesome summary of each. That'll help big time as I am planning on picking up more KZ IEMs in the new year. Since I only have the EDse and Micro Ring, I can only comment on those.
> 
> While I love the EDse, the cable especially (looks great, has no memory, and is nice and plush at the same time), the Micro Ring with a proper seal dances around it when it comes to forwardness of the mids and soundstage. I also find the EDse gets a little simblant, which the Micro Ring avoids.
> 
> They haven't left my ears since I found a set of tips that actually work well; the included ones were useless. Only the med size (the left of which was torn out of the box...) were actually designed for that style of IEM. The small and large were standard tips and weren't long enough and slipped off by themselves after few seconds if you left them alone. I ended up using a set of tips from a more standard nozzled IEM in the end, but they work perfectly. I've been 'burning' in my silver Pistons and EDse, but I see no reason to use either at this point.


The KZ EDSE was a challenge for me to come up with a tip that brings out the best in them. 

It seemed like with many tips (which even worked most times with other phones) didn't give me a complete seal. I settled on the medium sized wide boar gray/red lunashops tips. The mh1 tips also worked for my ears. 

With other tips I got what felt like a a good seal but it didn't seal completely. They sounded good but the top end seemed harsh. See if you can tip roll for an even better tip,and get an almost vacuum (tenore-ish) seal on them (avoid driver flex though) and see if that makes the signature slightly warmer, and make the highs seem less harsh. 

They isolate great, and their heavier housing makes them great we for walking and commuting without getting a bunch of cable noise (I wear them over the ear)


----------



## Hisoundfi

KZ PLE is basshead audiophile. More bass than I prefer but it is good quality with plenty of punch and rumble, and something that's impressive is they don't distort the lower midrange like the pistons, BUT there's considerable veil in the lower midrange. It has "enough" midrange, and treble is present with a mild crispness. 

These are hip hop and EDM all the way. You're not going to get a "reference" sound with these, but I'd consider these an upgrade to the Pistons, and something that is along the lines of the velodyne v-pulse, bass colour, piston 2.0, and moxpad x3.


----------



## BigGearHunter

hisoundfi said:


> KZ PLE is basshead audiophile. More bass than I prefer but it is good quality with plenty of punch and rumble, and something that's impressive is they don't distort the lower midrange like the pistons, BUT there's considerable veil in the lower midrange. It has "enough" midrange, and treble is present with a mild crispness.
> 
> These are hip hop and EDM all the way. You're not going to get a "reference" sound with these, but I'd consider these an upgrade to the Pistons, and something that is along the lines of the velodyne v-pulse, bass colour, piston 2.0, and moxpad x3.


 

 Would you mind posting some pictures of your new IEMs please?


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> KZ PLE is basshead audiophile. More bass than I prefer but it is good quality with plenty of punch and rumble, and something that's impressive is they don't distort the lower midrange like the pistons, BUT there's considerable veil in the lower midrange. It has "enough" midrange, and treble is present with a mild crispness.
> 
> These are hip hop and EDM all the way. You're not going to get a "reference" sound with these, but I'd consider these an upgrade to the Pistons, and something that is along the lines of the velodyne v-pulse, bass colour, piston 2.0, and moxpad x3.




Damn, I was looking g forward to those. Not so much anymore 

Tbh I don't find any a of the KZ IEM's so far to be particulary impressive soundvise. I'd say they're on a $20-30 level but nothing more. Yes build is incredible but that doesn't matter much if the don't sound good enough to get some usage.........

I understand that they're tuned in a way that don't suit my preferences but I find most of them to be pretty similar. I'm wondering how many of them that uses the same drivers with just a slightly different tuning.


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> Damn, I was looking g forward to those. Not so much anymore
> 
> Tbh I don't find any a of the KZ IEM's so far to be particulary impressive soundvise. I'd say they're on a $20-30 level but nothing more. Yes build is incredible but that doesn't matter much if the don't sound good enough to get some usage.........
> 
> I understand that they're tuned in a way that don't suit my preferences but I find most of them to be pretty similar. I'm wondering how many of them that uses the same drivers with just a slightly different tuning.


I honestly think you MIGHT like the kz anv. It has far less bass than any kz iem I've heard. The other thing though is that they don't have very good mids or highs. They are however the most balanced phone of any of the KZ line. They are meh, but sound half decent through my c5


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> I honestly think you MIGHT like the kz anv. It has far less bass than any kz iem I've heard. The other thing though is that they don't have very good mids or highs. They are however the most balanced phone of any of the KZ line. They are meh, but sound half decent through my c5




Thanks for the suggestion but not good mids and highs doesn't sound intriguing.

I'll just have to accept that they're not for me and move on. No big issue


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> The KZ EDSE was a challenge for me to come up with a tip that brings out the best in them.
> 
> It seemed like with many tips (which even worked most times with other phones) didn't give me a complete seal. I settled on the medium sized wide boar gray/red lunashops tips. The mh1 tips also worked for my ears.
> 
> ...




I'm very lucky in that I get zero driver flex regardless of the tip. The Sony silicon ones I was using provided a really good seal and tamed the treble, but hurt the soundstage a touch (was still better than most iems though).

I took your advice and tip rolled some more. Due to the slightly smaller than average nozzle thickness, it was hard to find the best match, but I did. Treble can still be a bit harsh, but the soundstage opened back up and the sub bass improved. Not much of a change in mids though.

Despite their similarities, I still like the Micro Ring best  They isolate shockingly well given they are vented everywhere.

Ps. If the EDse had an inline mic, they would be a perfect alternative to the Pistons. They are so similar, but ever so slightly better...to my earballs at least.


----------



## Arvan

b9scrambler said:


> I'm very lucky in that I get zero driver flex regardless of the tip. The Sony silicon ones I was using provided a really good seal and tamed the treble, but hurt the soundstage a touch (was still better than most iems though).
> 
> I took your advice and tip rolled some more. Due to the slightly smaller than average nozzle thickness, it was hard to find the best match, but I did. Treble can still be a bit harsh, but the soundstage opened back up and the sub bass improved. Not much of a change in mids though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can get the ED2 which is the same earphone with in-line remote. And i agree with you that it is a good alternative to the piston. Less metallic treble, much better cable!


----------



## mochill

Dam I just got the ole and the are bassy iem with smooth treble and full mids , soundstage reproduction is intimate and it's ok for the price... The body is so heavy


----------



## altrunox

mochill said:


> Dam I just got the ole and the are bassy iem with smooth treble and full mids , soundstage reproduction is intimate and it's ok for the price... The body is so heavy


 
 what? ole?


----------



## BigGearHunter

altrunox said:


> what? ole?


 

 I think he means the PLE. Platinum Limited Edition.


----------



## B9Scrambler

arvan said:


> You can get the ED2 which is the same earphone with in-line remote. And i agree with you that it is a good alternative to the piston. Less metallic treble, much better cable!




Oooo...Might have to pick those up in my next KZ batch purchase.


----------



## mochill

Yes....PLE.....THEY ARE SMOOTH  EASY LISTENING IEM


----------



## Jjc27

I should be getting the ple tomorrow. So far I prefer the es over the edse. I also got the lps a few days ago and I have to say it's a really good sounding phone. I hope the lps is not to bassy. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hisoundfi

jjc27 said:


> I should be getting the ple tomorrow. So far I prefer the es over the edse. I also got the lps a few days ago and I have to say it's a really good sounding phone. I hope the lps is not to bassy.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Not trying to burst your bubble, but the ple is super bassy, like dre beats bassy.


----------



## Jjc27

hisoundfi said:


> jjc27 said:
> 
> 
> > I should be getting the ple tomorrow. So far I prefer the es over the edse. I also got the lps a few days ago and I have to say it's a really good sounding phone. I hope the lps is not to bassy.
> ...





That's bad for me but definitely good for a friend who will probably get this from me as a gift. I like hitting my beats loving friends in the mouth with better sound gear... Lol

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## mochill

You should try them first


----------



## peter123




----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


>


I feel my ear drums rattling just looking at the picture


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> I feel my ear drums rattling just looking at the picture




Lol, I haven't even got them in my ears yet, not sure that I dare


----------



## HraD2

On the picture is not KZ DT5 PLE, but ordinary KZ DT5 version?


----------



## peter123

hrad2 said:


> On the picture is not KZ DT5 PLE, but ordinary KZ DT5 version?




How can one tell the difference?


----------



## HraD2

PLE has cheneese letters, dt5 - not


----------



## peter123

hrad2 said:


> PLE has cheneese letters, dt5 - not




Interesting, thank you. 

They look exactly like in the Aliexpress listing. I'll try to contact the seller but given the problems others have reported in their communication with them I'm far from optimistic


----------



## HraD2

I have ordered here http://aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DT5-pole-tone-music-headset-phone-headset-ear-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Universal/32221641361.html
 and asks seller:
 - Hi! Photos from this lot are the actual photos of "KZ-DT5 pole tone" headphones?
and he answers me:
- 
Xiaofei Jin
2014-10-27 17:47:28
 yes


----------



## peter123

hrad2 said:


> I have ordered here http://aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DT5-pole-tone-music-headset-phone-headset-ear-headphones-HIFI-headphones-Universal/32221641361.html
> and asks seller:
> - [COLOR=333333]Hi! Photos from this lot are the actual photos of "KZ-DT5 pole tone" headphones?[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=333333]and he answers me:[/COLOR]
> ...




I ordered from the same seller but another listing calling them Platinum Limited Edition and showing the ones I've got with the English letters.

It seems as if the Pole Tone version and the PLE version are different........


----------



## HraD2

Yes, we are talking about different models, sorry ))) PTE & PLE are very similar )


----------



## peter123

hrad2 said:


> Yes, we are talking about different models, sorry ))) PTE & PLE are very similar )




All good 

The PLE are extremely bassy......


----------



## mochill

Not super bassy but almost there ....


----------



## peter123

mochill said:


> Not super bassy but almost there ....




Lol, you know me. Just a tiny bit sensitive for too much bass


----------



## mochill

Then you'll definitely love the a83 , not bassy at all.. Just perfect balance


----------



## peter123

mochill said:


> Then you'll definitely love the a83 , not bassy at all.. Just perfect balance




Yes, they do seem like my type. Just a bit pricey


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> Lol, you know me. Just a tiny bit sensitive for too much bass


 
 These PLE are too bassy for me, and I like big bass!
 Sound has decent separation and resolution, it's just TOOOOOOOO MUUUUUUUUUUUUCH BAAAAAAAAAAAAASssssssssssss...........!


----------



## Ira Delphic

mochill said:


> Then you'll definitely love the a83 , not bassy at all.. Just perfect balance


 
  
 The a83 is also on sale!
 http://penonaudio.com/Fidue-A83


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> Yes, they do seem like my type. Just a bit pricey


 
 Peter123, we chatted a while ago about your price limit...
  
 AHEM, I have a suggestion sir...
  
 GR07BE is now $100, BOOM
  
 Experience the sound that you're looking for...do it


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> These PLE are too bassy for me, and I like big bass!
> Sound has decent separation and resolution, it's just TOOOOOOOO MUUUUUUUUUUUUCH BAAAAAAAAAAAAASssssssssssss...........!




Yeah, they remind me a bit about the NarMoo S1's.......


----------



## Hisoundfi

I hope that gif haunts your dreams until you buy them lmao


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> Peter123, we chatted a while ago about your price limit...
> 
> AHEM, I have a suggestion sir...
> 
> ...




Lol, yeah I've noticed but I got the XE800 just a little while back and enjoy them a lot. Don't really miss any bass on them either so I'm sitting here on my fence trying to decide what to do.....

I've also decided to get the Fidelio X2 so the less I spend on other stuff the sooner I'll be able to get them. 

Decisions, decisions. Life is really hard


----------



## Hisoundfi

GR07BE is the havi with more extension on both ends and not needing an amp. They are like wine, they get better with age. The more miles they have the better they get. Through my c5 GR07BE is a step ahead of my havi.


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> GR07BE is the havi with more extension on both ends and not needing an amp. They are like wine, they get better with age. The more miles they have the better they get. Through my c5 GR07BE is a step ahead of my havi.




I find the XE800 to be way to much 2d to compete with the Havi's for me, are the BE's really that much better than the XE800 in that area?

Edit: to get back on topic: the back vents on the PLE's are huge. I think I'll try to block them tomorrow and see what happens...


----------



## Hisoundfi

I think the XE800 has better imaging than the GR07BE IMHO (so ya the Havi is better than both in this area), but between the extension (in both bass and treble) combined with how articulate and refined sounding the GR07BE is when played through the C5 or even without an amplifier, I feel like they are just superior. I still love my Havis but it's like the better and better the source gets with the GR07BE, the more they pull away from the Havi. Same could be said of the Havi in terms of upscaling, but not on the same level as the GR07BE IMHO. Resolution and extension goes to GR07BE hands down both unamped and with the C5. With the likes of the Topping NX1 and Soundmagic A10, However, the Havi sounds better IMHO.
  
 Now having a few different DAC and amps to try stuff on, I'm realizing how much source impacts an IEMs ability to sound it's best. I have a new found appreciation of my Astrotec AX-35 when played through the C5


----------



## clee290

Where are people seeing the GR07BEs for 100 buckaroonies?


----------



## mochill

Giving away all my kz and sidy iem to my brother  as well as the ttpod t1E ....they just doesn't sound right after listening to the gr07be and a83


----------



## bhazard

mochill said:


> Giving away all my kz and sidy iem to my brother  as well as the ttpod t1E ....they just doesn't sound right after listening to the gr07be and a83


 
 Duh, lol. That's like throwing a Bantamweight into a Heavyweight fight. Different classes.


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> Giving away all my kz and sidy iem to my brother  as well as the ttpod t1E ....they just doesn't sound right after listening to the gr07be and a83


 

 What do you think about the KZ-2014 (CM9)? Are they a keeper?


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> I think the XE800 has better imaging than the GR07BE IMHO (so ya the Havi is better than both in this area), but between the extension (in both bass and treble) combined with how articulate and refined sounding the GR07BE is when played through the C5 or even without an amplifier, I feel like they are just superior. I still love my Havis but it's like the better and better the source gets with the GR07BE, the more they pull away from the Havi. Same could be said of the Havi in terms of upscaling, but not on the same level as the GR07BE IMHO. Resolution and extension goes to GR07BE hands down both unamped and with the C5. With the likes of the Topping NX1 and Soundmagic A10, However, the Havi sounds better IMHO.
> 
> Now having a few different DAC and amps to try stuff on, I'm realizing how much source impacts an IEMs ability to sound it's best. I have a new found appreciation of my Astrotec AX-35 when played through the C5




Tbh I've would have gotten the BE's at $107 if I didn't already waited for the XE800 to arrive at that time but I see no reason to own both. I still prefer the B3 over the XE800 with the C5 as well but as I said they're both great, preference and music taste is the deciding factors. Also the B3 with tubes is as as good as it gets for my taste 

I also so your post about the c5 and the ax35 a while ago and it made me curious enough to pull out the ax35 again and I totally agree with you, I've never heard than as good either. I've modded my ax35 and used them with a impedance adapter but now I removed all mods except the tape on the basport and it sounded really nice. Thank you for sharing your experience!


----------



## mochill

i do not have the cm9.


----------



## 1clearhead

I wish someone could give more details on the KZ-2014 (CM9). Just by the pics alone the housing seems tough and the frequency looks good at 7~31. I think?


----------



## mochill

You should check out the fidue a71


----------



## 1clearhead

mochill said:


> You should check out the fidue a71


 
  
 I'm sobbing.....I can't even afford them. My pockets have holes in them. Even the fidue a83 are expensive here in China.


----------



## RedJohn456

mochill said:


> You should check out the fidue a71


 
  
 Hey Mo' whats the latest on the a71? Cant seem to find much on these bad boys


----------



## mochill

Apparently they are tuned for breath taking vocals and huge soundstage reproduction


----------



## mochill

http://www.head-fi.org/t/739984/fidue-a71-dual-dynamic-appreciation-thread/15#post_11032735

Here's the thread about them


----------



## RedJohn456

mochill said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/739984/fidue-a71-dual-dynamic-appreciation-thread/15#post_11032735
> 
> Here's the thread about them


 

 lol total fail on my part haha. Thanks Mo, one love bredgen


----------



## SymphonyX7

I just got an email from the official KZ store on AliExpress and it seems like they'll hold another big sale this November 11 (tomorrow as of this writing).


----------



## Shawn71

Yep thats the 11:11 grand sale!.......


----------



## ndburley

OK my kz- Platinum Limited Edition has turned up!
  



  
 Quick review - Now I have to compare these to another headphone and as I also have Soundmagic E10 which is not that more expensive I base it on them. First off these things are fairly heavy and you really notice it but feel solid I may add but not for a person with Dainty ears. The Left and Right markers are mixed in with the KZ BASS markings and not in your face obvious when looking for them unlike the SM E10 which uses a red marker for Right and a blue for left. I was not impressed with the packaging these came in as they are limited edition, a poorly printed cardboard box in which the headphones sat inside sealed in a crappy plastic bag. I guess it gets the job done but the E10s came with a hardened zip up travel pouch. I know there is a price difference between the two but not a massive amount. Well down to a sound test and my go to track "Breathe" by The Prodigy as it tests the bass well and keeps that clinical treble assault with some mid range kicks too boot. You should try it 
 The bass on the KZ delivers well I have to say but when the treble kicks in it is on the side of offensive, it kind of hurts and turning down you lose the bass side. Maybe these need to be run in a bit so will let them burn for a while. I also have the KZ RX which is all bass and muffled treble and these tend to shoot off in the other direction. I have tested these on my Xduoo X1 and compared to my E10's I would say put the little extra in and get the Soundmagic. If you have a mobile you could possibly EQ the top end down to be less intrusive but would rather it come out more balanced to begin with.
 I do prefer the cable on the KZ though, Also I have just finished listening to Hotel California all the way through with the KZ's and it sounds pretty good, Seems to favour types of music but will run them in a bit then go back to Breathe. Well there you go I hope this helps a little with anyone looking at these.


----------



## BigGearHunter

I've looked into it, it's the same 30% from a couple of weeks ago, except the fixed discounts are now $20 instead of $15. In other words, they are not as good. I'll pass.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I just got my kz lps... 

The case is worth the 26 dollars I paid for them! Unreal! 

They feel like really high quality phones holding them in your hands. Beautiful finish and build quality. Lots of metal and high quality protein pads. 

They have very cool cloth braided cables, one with a mic and one without. 

Sound is okay out of the box. Not as good as my superlux and takstar cans. I'm hoping burn in will bring better resolution to the midrange and treble. 

Bass is very deep and powerful.


----------



## clee290

Got my LPS today as well. Nice case, cables, and build quality. Unfortunately, I may have gotten a faulty pair. The sound is distorted unless I really push and hold the connector into the LPS's headphone jack. This happens with both cables, so it's most likely an issue with the headphone jack in the LPS. I took a look inside and did notice something red, maybe a wire or something?
  

  
 If other LPS owners can take a look and see if their pair has the same thing or not, that would be cool. I already contacted the seller about it, so we'll see what happens.


----------



## Hisoundfi

clee290 said:


> Got my LPS today as well. Nice case, cables, and build quality. Unfortunately, I may have gotten a faulty pair. The sound is distorted unless I really push and hold the connector into the LPS's headphone jack. This happens with both cables, so it's most likely an issue with the headphone jack in the LPS. I took a look inside and did notice something red, maybe a wire or something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought the same thing when I got my pair. Make sure the cable is pushed in all the way on the Jack where the headphones meet the cable.


----------



## clee290

hisoundfi said:


> I thought the same thing when I got my pair. Make sure the cable is pushed in all the way on the Jack where the headphones meet the cable.


 
 Yea, I've been doing that and it does fix the issue sometimes, but as soon as I let it go, the sound gets all distorted again. It's like something is pushing the cable out.


----------



## Hisoundfi

clee290 said:


> Yea, I've been doing that and it does fix the issue sometimes, but as soon as I let it go, the sound gets all distorted again. It's like something is pushing the cable out.


Did you give it a good shove and hear it click into place? 

Just trying to save you on a return


----------



## clee290

hisoundfi said:


> Did you give it a good shove and hear it click into place?
> 
> Just trying to save you on a return


 
 Yep, it clicks into place, but still sounds distorted. Then I push it in more and twist the connector a bit until it sounds good, then I let go and it's distorted again 
  
 I do appreciate the help, but I'm probably going to end up asking for a refund or at least a partial refund.


----------



## altrunox

So they arrived, ES and ED...


Spoiler: ED



 















 
  


Spoiler: ES



 














  
 Are they really that cheap?! Build quality is fantastic! That cable, W
 OW!
 What about the sound? So I didn`t used then a lot so I can say a lot, but my first impressions are nice, blows away US$100 products? Maybe if it`s a Beats product...
 Blows away my VSD3S? No, I don`t think they do a scratch to them, althought US$18 for these two + free shipping?!
 Nah, excellent!
  
 They will be on 11/11 sale soon, will I buy another pair for xmas gift? SURE!!!


----------



## Hisoundfi

These lps make hip hop sound awesomesauce. 

I don't think they are game changing sound but they sound darn good for bass heavy stuff and edm, and my hip hop fix is going to be with these guys plugged in definitely. 

I really like these


----------



## B9Scrambler

clee290 said:


> Yea, I've been doing that and it does fix the issue sometimes, but as soon as I let it go, the sound gets all distorted again. It's like something is pushing the cable out.




Sounds like that issue a lot of us UE6000 owners were running into. Mine took one heck of a push before the cable would seat properly. Until then you would get the click, it would sound fine, then the cable would pop back out.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Man I just read like 4 pages of this thread and I regret pulling the trigger on the cogoo!! T02's should have bought the KZ EDSE. While on aliexpress something did catch my eye the KZ-GR apparently they're also known as KZ Spartacus (idek) I read that they are having filter problems is this still going on?


----------



## clee290

b9scrambler said:


> Sounds like that issue a lot of us UE6000 owners were running into. Mine took one heck of a push before the cable would seat properly. Until then you would get the click, it would sound fine, then the cable would pop back out.


 
 Guess I could try pushing even harder, nothing to lose at this point  Maybe later though, as my thumb is starting to hurt lol.


----------



## smy1

How come you guys get fast shipping lol my takes like 3 weeks for it to come to the us nc


----------



## xtwargodtx

smy1 said:


> How come you guys get fast shipping lol my takes like 3
> weeks for it to come to the us nc



LOL I live in Vancouver my xiaomi pistons took almost 1 month and a week to get to my place. Worst part about it they turned out to be fakes.


----------



## Hisoundfi

All of this for $28! 

I feel like I stole it!


----------



## smy1

xtwargodtx said:


> LOL I live in Vancouver my xiaomi pistons took almost 1 month and a week to get to my place. Worst part about it they turned out to be fakes.




What does the fake ones sound like?


----------



## Hisoundfi

smy1 said:


> What does the fake ones sound like?


like schiit


----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> These lps make hip hop sound awesomesauce.
> 
> I don't think they are game changing sound but they sound darn good for bass heavy stuff and edm, and my hip hop fix is going to be with these guys plugged in definitely.
> 
> I really like these


 
 $26. I'm curious what 100 hours of break in will do. SQ wise it's a bass can with decent mids. Nothing special so far.
  
 What is special is what you get for $26. I'm sure a daring modder could use these as a cheap base for something special.


----------



## altrunox

hisoundfi said:


> All of this for $28!
> 
> I feel like I stole it!


 
  
 Felt the same when I opened the KZ Bundle from the last page...
 Then Ì`ll have to buy them again


----------



## Robun

Had my new EDSEs and GRs for almost 2 weeks now and I have to say they are outstanding. For both pairs of iems I only paid $15 all together. I have no idea how they managed to pull these off with an ounce of profit.


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> $26. I'm curious what 100 hours of break in will do. SQ wise it's a bass can with decent mids. Nothing special so far.
> 
> What is special is what you get for $26. I'm sure a daring modder could use these as a cheap base for something special.


 
 Honestly, I feel like they are made for hip hop and edm IMHO. They just have that signature.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The lps are SUPER comfortable, and with the epic build you don't get any popping or crackling from jank connections or cheap plastics.


----------



## Leo888

Guys, can I request for a comparison btw the KZ PLE and DT3 if anyone here happens to have both. Thanks guys.


----------



## bhazard

leo888 said:


> Guys, can I request for a comparison btw the KZ PLE and DT3 if anyone here happens to have both. Thanks guys.


 
 I think the DT3 might be better. The PLE is underwhelming.


----------



## Leo888

bhazard said:


> I think the DT3 might be better. The PLE is underwhelming.




Thanks bhazard. In your opinion, what do you find under whelming about the PLE to the DT3. About to place an order for total of 8 sets of EDSE as Christmas gifts and thought would get myself a EDSE, ES and the PLE or DT3. Hope to get a better picture to make a better decision. Thanks again.


----------



## Hisoundfi

That is a sick portable rig for the Grand total of $26 invested into it!


----------



## Jjc27

I find the PLE to bassy even with wide boar tips. Personally I prefer the ES over the PLE and the EDSE. I'll be getting the GR and DT3 next. The LPS are really nice hardware wise and musically they are not amazing but are really good for edm and hip-hop like some others have mentioned. Definitely punch harder than my sol Republic tracks HD with better all around sound. The sol republics were a little over 100 and these like around 30... Makes you wonder. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## bhazard

leo888 said:


> Thanks bhazard. In your opinion, what do you find under whelming about the PLE to the DT3. About to place an order for total of 8 sets of EDSE as Christmas gifts and thought would get myself a EDSE, ES and the PLE or DT3. Hope to get a better picture to make a better decision. Thanks again.


 
 PLE is nearly three times the price, but doesn't sound better in any way. Treble and mids seem better on the DT3 to me so far.


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> PLE is nearly three times the price, but doesn't sound better in any way. Treble and mids seem better on the DT3 to me so far.


+1

PLE has better resolution and definition, but the bass is too booming and fatiguing IMHO. It's Dre beats type of bass that puts a hole in your eardrum. 

KZ DT3 has a very warm, bassy sound with that is smooth and easy to listen to, and the treble sounds of good quality and compliments the warm signature. 

If you want beats audio sound that will blow your brains out with bass, get the PLE. If you like a bassy warm and mellow signature with a polite top end get the dt3.


----------



## Leo888

bhazard said:


> PLE is nearly three times the price, but doesn't sound better in any way. Treble and mids seem better on the DT3 to me so far.







hisoundfi said:


> +1
> 
> PLE has better resolution and definition, but the bass is too booming and fatiguing IMHO. It's Dre beats type of bass that puts a hole in your eardrum.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the thoughts @bhazard and @Hisoundfi. It helps making the decision easier for me. I will take the DT3, EDSE and maybe the ES.


----------



## smy1

Msg kz about the filter problem on the GR they said atleast 100 hours need to be burned


----------



## B9Scrambler

clee290 said:


> Guess I could try pushing even harder, nothing to lose at this point  Maybe later though, as my thumb is starting to hurt lol.




yeah...I though I broke the jack when the cable finally went in correctly :s it was pretty jarring...freaked me out, lol.


----------



## bhazard

jjc27 said:


> I find the PLE to bassy even with wide boar tips. Personally I prefer the ES over the PLE and the EDSE. I'll be getting the GR and DT3 next. The LPS are really nice hardware wise and musically they are not amazing but are really good for edm and hip-hop like some others have mentioned. Definitely punch harder than my sol Republic tracks HD with better all around sound. The sol republics were a little over 100 and these like around 30... Makes you wonder.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk




Yep, these really punch hard without an amp, and harder with one. Knife Party sounding great on it. They just about punch as hard as the first vmoda crossfade.

These are def better than Sol.

I hope KZ can make an audiophile tuned, balanced XLR version. The market needs it. Would flip the script on what's possible (if affordable)


----------



## bhazard

For the LPS, open your EQ and add about 5db to every frequency after 900hz. Let me know what you think.


----------



## xtwargodtx

smy1 said:


> What does the fake ones sound like?


 
 the bass is like the only sound you hear and the mids and highs are super veil. They broke just yesterday i hink my driver flex but i eq'ed them so they sounded okay.


----------



## peter123

smy1 said:


> Msg kz about the filter problem on the GR they said atleast 100 hours need to be burned




Lol, do they think that the filter will physically change at that time.


----------



## xtwargodtx

KZ-ED2 Are on sale for $5.31 on ali express the link http://www.aliexpress.com/item/The-official-factory-clearance-kz-ed2-fidelity-headset-phone-headset-earphone-headset-headphone-bass-headphones-spike/2049891635.html


----------



## slowpickr

peter123 said:


> Lol, do they think that the filter will physically change at that time.




Yeah, the burn in process will burn new vent holes LOL!


----------



## peter123

slowpickr said:


> Yeah, the burn in process will burn new vent holes LOL!


 
 Exactly, LOL!


----------



## Wokei

Been gone for a bit..what hole are you guys taking about....?


----------



## rontant

LOL!
  
 Someone bought KZ GR that sound really awful and found out that both the red and black filters have no vent holes.


----------



## slowpickr

wokei said:


> Been gone for a bit..what hole are you guys taking about....?


 
  
 Here you go massa Wokei...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/1215#post_11007842


----------



## Wokei

slowpickr said:


> Here you go massa Wokei...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/1215#post_11007842




Oh.....that hole...me GR do have HOLE



So you have GR with no hole...that's bad...


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Been gone for a bit..what hole are you guys taking about....?


YAY!


----------



## Hisoundfi

Real questions here that I'm sure everyone on this thread has been wondering... 

Is the ed2 any different from the edse? 

Is the lps any different from the lpt? 

Is the ple any different from the dt5?

Is the price difference on these examples just a gimmick?


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Real questions here that I'm sure everyone on this thread has been wondering...
> 
> Is the ed2 any different from the edse?
> 
> ...




Sad to say...when me bought me ED2 ...there were no KZ EDSE...not too sure about the other two...as for me...since they are not expensive...me mantra is go for the cheap one...lol


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> Real questions here that I'm sure everyone on this thread has been wondering...
> 
> Is the ed2 any different from the edse?
> 
> ...




Add the KZ-LP vs LPS also.


----------



## smy1

peter123 said:


> Exactly, LOL!


 
 welp thats what they said who knows maybe it will trigger somthing


----------



## Hisoundfi

Idk if it's my brain adjusting, but it seems like these lps are opening up a bit in the midrange. 

bhazard I did your eq setting and it does balance things out a bit. Try the same thing with your ple, you will get similar results. 

These lps are basically super high build quality beater cans. Their size and case makes them super portable.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Idk if it's my brain adjusting, but it seems like these lps are opening up a bit in the midrange.
> 
> bhazard I did your eq setting and it does balance things out a bit. Try the same thing with your ple, you will get similar results.
> 
> These lps are basically super high build quality beater cans. Their size and case makes them super portable.




+ been feeding them heavy dose of dubstep for more 10 days ....much more details and bass turning out to be pretty tight ....super duper value ...woot woot


----------



## ndburley

Feeling a bit disheartened with the KZ range


----------



## bhazard

ndburley said:


> Feeling a bit disheartened with the KZ range


 
 Why? They should be looked as better quality Monoprice IEMs for the gym, bike riding, etc. Anything more is asking too much.


----------



## ndburley

bhazard said:


> Why? They should be looked as better quality Monoprice IEMs for the gym, bike riding, etc. Anything more is asking too much.


 
 you are right I cannot argue for the money but for a few more quid you could get better. I am not a hater I am still using my KZ limited editions around the house to burn them in a bit. 
 apart from the bass they are not much better than provided headphones you get with a mobile phone out of the box but they look better. Can you advise on a pair that would be great? Maybe I am wanting too much from them.


----------



## WuddaWaste

I got two pairs of R3s in the mail last week and had been loving on them all weekend.   I was surprised because I ordered the KZ R3s on Oct 21 and they were here last Wednesday, but my order from Oct 20 just *barely* got to the States last night.  Still waiting.
  
 I still need to spend some time burning the R3s in, but my first impressions out of the box was a straight-up wow at the materials and build quailty .  As you guys know, they are warm and the bass is rich.  The mid-highs seem a bit recessed at first, but my ears got used to it quickly.  I only have 20 hours or so on the pair I'm using, so I expect the sound signature might change a little.
  
 In the mail, I'm still waiting for some GK-GR and KZ-ED SE.  C'mon, Mr. Mailman!


----------



## Roderick

I got my lps today. I'm not overly impressed by the sound. Bassy, quite muffled and not so impressive soundstage. Like it has been pointed out these are not bad for the price but can't compete with Takstar and Superlux offerings. As everyone knows by now, the build quality is superb. One bad thing I noticed though is the bad quality plastic under the pads. I have removed the pads about 5 times and the plastic is allready wearing out so the pads don't click in their place as they are supposed to. Not a problem in normal use but someone who want's to mod these might end up damaging the headphones permanently in a way that pads won't stay in place anymore.
  
 KZ obviously has some quality control issues. One user already reported having problems connecting the cable and my pair has a part missing. There is a rubber seal part between the baffle and the plastic which pads are connected to. Another cup in my headphones is missing that rubber thingy. I also had a weird problem with one of the drivers. After about two hours of use there was rattle and obvious channel imbalance. Driver membrane was super loose. Just pushing the pads caused enough air pressure change to make the rattle. Actually it was more of a sound of the driver crinkling to be precise. I managed to fix the problem by blowing inside the headphones through the back went. I guess the driver popped back into its original form.
  
 Besides quality control I must fault KZ for false advertising. These are supposed to have a 53mm driver. They don't. It is 50mm. After such a useless lie, I have a hard time believing stuff about reduced impedance and increased sensitivity are true either. Infact I don't feel these are particularly easy to drive. Pretty average I think. Any opinions on that? Of course if someone could measure these it would be awesome. Driver itself looks a lot like ones I've seen before. It looks like Somic MH463 driver. Only paper parts behind the driver are different. Also TDK ST800 has similar looking driver.
  
 LPS and MH463 do share some things in common soundwise so it would be no surprise for me if the driver is infact based on MH463's driver. Most distinct similarity is weird soundstage. Stereo image is panned to the left and right so heavily that center image is not that good.
  
 Angled drivers would help with that but modding KZ to angled is not that easy. Usually the easy way is to use angled pads but since LPS does not have swiveling cups that would not work. Yeah...about pads. I'm listening my pair with HM5 velour pads atm  It takes some time to get the pads in place but it is not difficult. Just loosen the screws so that you can pull out outer plastic part a bit to make a crack. Then put the pads on like you would with traditional headphones. Then just tighten the screws back. Cloth that HM5 pads have make it bit tricky but it can be done with some patience.
  
 With HM5 pads I really like the sound. Bass is not so bloated anymore. There is still plenty off bass, definately more than on PRO80. Actually this might well be the highest quality bass I have heard on a cheap headphones. Mids have better clarity and highs are more prominent. I really like how the highs sound. Compared to PRO80, LPS highs sound more natural. I didn't find Takstars harsh or anything I just feel that LPS has better quality highs. Also the amount of detail is very impressive for such a bassy can. HM5 pads also make the soundstage larger but unfortunately the soundstage is still too spread apart. I need more time with these headphones but at the moment only the incoherent soundstage is keeping me from preferring these over PRO80.
  
 When I got the time I plan on working with the driver angling issue. Maybe adding some dampening in the cups and perhaps making another vent could have positive effects. Upper vent at the back of the cups is a decoration only. Hopefully these can be made sound good without HM5 or any other large pads. It's bit of a shame to make such a beautiful portables look like bulky home use only headphones.


----------



## RedJohn456

So just got these in the mail thanks penon. One thing I noticed right away about the ED3 after taking it out of the box: HOLY SHIIITE THESE THINGS ARE HEAVY. I am not even kidding.
  
 The EDSE was easy to get a seal with but the ED3 on the other hand was pretty frustrating. It has a stupid long neck for the tip and it was hard to put on the tips in a way that would stay in my ears. I was already starting to hate it.
  
 But after some listening tests I feel that the ED3 is better to my ears than EDSE. I will get this out of the way: They don't even come close to my VSD3. As long as we keep our expectations in check, they are easy to enjoy for what they are. The ED3 will be my third daily listening along side my VSD3 and Havi (once replacement gets here) and the EDSE has been relegated to gym duties.
  
 The isolation is unreal, especially with the ED3. The isolation is almost on same level as VSD3. I find both the KZ iems to be uncomfortable however.
  
 They will make excellent gifts for anyone and they look minttt. ED3 feels a million bucks and is heavy like a quality product would be. Now if only KZ put some of their design money into upping the sound quality


----------



## bhazard

ndburley said:


> you are right I cannot argue for the money but for a few more quid you could get better. I am not a hater I am still using my KZ limited editions around the house to burn them in a bit.
> apart from the bass they are not much better than provided headphones you get with a mobile phone out of the box but they look better. Can you advise on a pair that would be great? Maybe I am wanting too much from them.


 
 That model isn't very good. Overpriced. The $9 DT3 or EDSE is nearly the same quality.


----------



## ndburley

I have listened to a few albums on the KZ and i think they are good but I then return to my SoundMagic E10....they are not a bank breaker but crush KZ and laugh. I am not just saying this because I dislike KZ but my SM E10 have enabled me to hear things in tracks I never have before but KZ are a "will do" alternative. Ask me to buy a model of KZ you think will change my mind


----------



## RedJohn456

I am tearing my hair out trying to find a pair of tips which work with the ED3. The stupid nozzle is so damn long so most of my tips don't work and because they iems heavy they keep shifting and I keep losing seal. Sigh I should have just bought the EDSE only lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

redjohn456 said:


> I am tearing my hair out trying to find a pair of tips which work with the ED3. The stupid nozzle is so damn long so most of my tips don't work and because they iems heavy they keep shifting and I keep losing seal. Sigh I should have just bought the EDSE only lol


What size of sony hybrids work for you?

That information will help come up with an idea for a good tip.


----------



## RedJohn456

hisoundfi said:


> What size of sony hybrids work for you?
> 
> That information will help come up with an idea for a good tip.


 
  
 I usually use the green colored one, the one size smaller than the largest (it was a 4 size pack). Interesting, what do you have in mind?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Try them. If they don't work see if you have some double flange tips.
  
 Take a look on Lunashops.com and check out the gray and red lunashops tips. They did wonders for me. They run a tiny bit on the larger side, like a half size larger than Sony Hybrids. They work with all my IEMs. They are an awesome universal tip for me. Your milage may vary, but it's worth a shot to buy a couple pair in each size and see how they work for you. YMMV
  
 I usually use The Medium (green) or Large  (light green) tips. The Lunashops gray and red tips were too big in Large, but fit very snug in Medium.


----------



## RedJohn456

hisoundfi said:


> Try them. If they don't work see if you have some double flange tips.
> 
> Take a look on Lunashops.com and check out the gray and red lunashops tips. They did wonders for me. They run a tiny bit on the larger side, like a half size larger than Sony Hybrids. They work with all my IEMs. They are an awesome universal tip for me. Your milage may vary, but it's worth a shot to buy a couple pair in each size and see how they work for you. YMMV
> 
> I usually use The Medium (green) or Large  (light green) tips. The Lunashops gray and red tips were too big in Large, but fit very snug in Medium.


 

 I'm assuming you are referring to the first set of tips at this link? http://www.lunashops.com/search.php?encode=YTozOntzOjg6ImNhdGVnb3J5IjtzOjI6IjI1IjtzOjg6ImtleXdvcmRzIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxODoic2VhcmNoX2VuY29kZV90aW1lIjtpOjE0MTU3NTE0MTc7fQ==
  
 Funny enough those are the sets I got with my earphone. The problem is that the ED3 stem is so damn long that if I properly put on a tip the nozzle goes in all the way to the level of the opening of the tip, if that made any sense. I finally tried the sennheiser foam tips I got with my havi and they are long enough. I think the foam messes with the treble a bit but its a compromise I have to make I suppose. Gotta say the ED3 sounds WONDERFUL once I got a good seal. I just wish I found a set of long bore tips that would work with the ED3.
  
 Cheers mate I appreciate the assistance, am a fan of your posts! Also saw you got a bunch of swag from the 11/11 sale. How good are the IE800 clones? I was thinking of getting the Earmax IE80 clone with silver cable through penon but not sure of how good the quality of these clones are.


----------



## Hisoundfi

@RedJohn456
  
 The lunashops tip is different. The hozzle is offset from the tip portion. The hozzle goes back farther than the tip.
  
 I just ordered the ie800 look alike. I'll share impressions when they come in.


----------



## Robun

ndburley said:


> I have listened to a few albums on the KZ and i think they are good but I then return to my SoundMagic E10....they are not a bank breaker but crush KZ and laugh. I am not just saying this because I dislike KZ but my SM E10 have enabled me to hear things in tracks I never have before but KZ are a "will do" alternative. Ask me to buy a model of KZ you think will change my mind


 
 EDSE or GR


----------



## RedJohn456

Just wanted to say that I am loving the KZ ED3, they sound really good for the price and am pretty sure it blows away most offerings at similar prices at local stores. Don't know what to think of the EDSE yet, I guess I am just not used to its sound signature yet. But the ED3 seems to getting better with each song 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Btw, how do you folks burn in your kz headphones? I will be burning them in tonight and can't wait to see how they sound tomorrow!


----------



## clee290

I think I was able to fix the issue I was having with my LPS yesterday. I ended up having to cut the 3.5mm connector off an old pair of Apple earphones, plugged it into the LPS, and applied pressure to the 3.5mm connector by pushing it downwards into my desk. Kind of hard to explain, but hopefully it holds up. For now..


----------



## bhazard

roderick said:


> I got my lps today. I'm not overly impressed by the sound. Bassy, quite muffled and not so impressive soundstage. Like it has been pointed out these are not bad for the price but can't compete with Takstar and Superlux offerings. As everyone knows by now, the build quality is superb. One bad thing I noticed though is the bad quality plastic under the pads. I have removed the pads about 5 times and the plastic is allready wearing out so the pads don't click in their place as they are supposed to. Not a problem in normal use but someone who want's to mod these might end up damaging the headphones permanently in a way that pads won't stay in place anymore.


 
 How do you remove the pads? The plastic is attached to them. I want to try the HM5 pads on them.


----------



## Milanche78

I use mostly micro rings more comfortable for my small ears than edse + less problems with the plug.


----------



## Roderick

bhazard said:


> How do you remove the pads? The plastic is attached to them. I want to try the HM5 pads on them.


 

 Just pull them out. Those are clip on pads. Do it one corner at a time and you should not break anything. There is no glue, so I think those are ment to be removable. Sennheiser uses same system in some of their portables. I forgot to mention that first thing I did was removing the paper covering the driver. Don't know if it affected that much. I did it too early on and I allready lost another paper piece to do a comparison. Driver is covered by durable metal grille. In case someone wants to remove the drivers grille makes it easy. Just push the driver and it falls out. Very little glue. I used more glue to put those back on. I've never seen a driver attached so loosely. Wouldn't be surprised if the driver could resonate in the baffle. Not that it is the biggest issue. Cups it self definately could use dampening. Those things really vibrate


----------



## mebaali

KZ ES‬ + ‪‎Italo Disco‬ = A Match made in ‪Heaven‬ (with just over 50 hours of burn-in).
  
 Absolutely enjoying these IEMs


----------



## 1clearhead

My KZ-ES are a keeper!.....+ my KZ-EDSE are on their way!
  
 Got to give credit to 'Hisoundfi' for my KZ-EDSE purchase......looking forward to it!


----------



## marijnsp

I ordered the ED SE , The ES and the DT3.
 The EDSE and ES already came in today. Sadly the ES arent working (broken lead) so I opened a dispute. I ordered at the official KZ flagship store.
 I should say the EDSE sound good as far as I can hear. I'll give them some burn-in overnight 
  
 I hope the DT3 will come in soon and I will get a refund or new pair of ES


----------



## xtwargodtx

YUS MY KZ ED2/EDSE HAVE FINNALY BEEN SHIPPED. Now to wait for that mailman .-.


----------



## Leo888

8 X EDSE + 2 X ES + 1 × DT3 + extension cable on order. Waiting for shipping confirmation. Can't bear to see my niece and nephew using cheap ear buds. Hope to see some happy faces this Christmas. Cheers.


----------



## RedJohn456

@Hisoundfi Man these EDSE are mind-blowingly good for the price. Seriously they sound better than they have a right to be. This is the most fun pair of headphones I have ever listened to! My ED3 is burning and just listening to EDSE with pop and EDM tracks and I am actually impressed by it's sound quality, especially in light of its price. I am temped to buy a whole box and gift them to my friends so they don't have to use their crappy iphone earpods haha. And funny thing is that it has a mic for phone calls. I had no idea :/
  
 As much as I regret it, I think I am starting to like the EDSE more than the ED3 and not to mention the ergonomics for ED3 is atrocious. Whoever designed that one needs to be let go lol. I wish they would make a flagship standard successor to the EDSE and I will be there day one!!
  
 What would you recommend next in the KZ line? The GR?


----------



## bhazard

redjohn456 said:


> @Hisoundfi Man these EDSE are mind-blowingly good for the price. Seriously they sound better than they have a right to be. This is the most fun pair of headphones I have ever listened to! My ED3 is burning and just listening to EDSE with pop and EDM tracks and I am actually impressed by it's sound quality, especially in light of its price. I am temped to buy a whole box and gift them to my friends so they don't have to use their crappy iphone earpods haha. And funny thing is that it has a mic for phone calls. I had no idea :/
> 
> As much as I regret it, I think I am starting to like the EDSE more than the ED3 and not to mention the ergonomics for ED3 is atrocious. Whoever designed that one needs to be let go lol. I wish they would make a flagship standard successor to the EDSE and I will be there day one!!
> 
> What would you recommend next in the KZ line? The GR?


 
 The EDSE is the sweet spot right now. Nothing else is mind blowing, yet.


----------



## RedJohn456

bhazard said:


> The EDSE is the sweet spot right now. Nothing else is mind blowing, yet.


 

 My wallet thanks you


----------



## Hisoundfi

Get the gr, and the dt3

Both dirt cheap, and both sound great. Just hope your gr doesn't have jank filters


----------



## xtwargodtx

redjohn456 said:


> @Hisoundfi
> Man these EDSE are mind-blowingly good for the price. Seriously they sound better than they have a right to be. This is the most fun pair of headphones I have ever listened to! My ED3 is burning and just listening to EDSE with pop and EDM tracks and I am actually impressed by it's sound quality, especially in light of its price. I am temped to buy a whole box and gift them to my friends so they don't have to use their crappy iphone earpods haha. And funny thing is that it has a mic for phone calls. I had no idea :/
> 
> As much as I regret it, I think I am starting to like the EDSE more than the ED3 and not to mention the ergonomics for ED3 is atrocious. Whoever designed that one needs to be let go lol. I wish they would make a flagship standard successor to the EDSE and I will be there day one!!
> ...




HONESLTY just wait a few months before buying the kz gr since they have the filter problem just let it clear up. I suggest just going for the dt3 ATM


----------



## Ira Delphic

bhazard said:


> The EDSE is the sweet spot right now. Nothing else is mind blowing, yet.


 
  
 I don't believe this represents the consensus opinion here.


----------



## mebaali

ira delphic said:


> I don't believe this represents the consensus opinion here.



 


Agreed (at least in my case, that is). After hours of burn in, ES is easily the go to phones (over EDSE) for me.


----------



## bhazard

ira delphic said:


> I don't believe this represents the consensus opinion here.


 
 It's more about not getting a big jump in SQ if they were to get another model. DT3, EDSE, ES are somewhat similar overall.


----------



## Ira Delphic

mebaali said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe this represents the consensus opinion here.
> ...


 
  
 I don't want to dis the ES but out of the box the highs were wonky (yes I've already mentioned that here) but I'll add that *after burning in I think the sound is improving*. But it could just be my imagination 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  For the price (USD$8), no complaints.
  
 I may have gotten a lemon and I think it's reasonable that quality conistency is what you'd expect for IEM's in this price range.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> I don't want to dis the ES but out of the box the highs were wonky (yes I've already mentioned that here) but I'll add that *after burning in I think the sound is improving*. But it could just be my imagination :tongue_smile: .  For the price (USD$8), no complaints.
> 
> I may have gotten a lemon and I think it's reasonable that quality conistency is what you'd expect for IEM's in this price range.


The highs do settle a bit on the es and become a little more clear after several hours of use. 

The sound is more balanced on the es, but the warm sound with forward mid range on the edse makes my listening experience more enjoyable, especially for extended listening sessions. I can listen to these on lower volume and enjoy them all day.


----------



## ndburley

I have the KZ XR and ZR limited Edition and for 4 quid I got Awei Q5 through the other day and they are better than both in sound quality (maybe not build quality from what I hear). I decided to give ISK a shot with the SEM5 and if they are good the SEM8. 
 I do not hate the KZ but they are very hit and miss and you have to go to listen to a lot of people to find which ones are worth having and not.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The KZ dt5 pole edition came in and so far IT ROCKS!


----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> The KZ dt5 pole edition came in and so far IT ROCKS!


 
 Awesome.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Dt5pe has lots of bass, but it's much better done than the KZ ple. It's very bass forward but the focus is on sub bass, and mids are not suffocated by it. Treble is crisp without being harsh.


----------



## Hisoundfi

This DT5PE is one of the few KZ IEMs that has solid imaging. So far I'm very happy, and glad I spent the money I did on them.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> This DT5PE is one of the few KZ IEMs that has solid imaging. So far I'm very happy, and glad I spent the money I did on them.


 
  
 Darn! Just when I thought I was done.
  
 So far, I purchased the* ES *and *EDSE*, which personally I think has the most positive reviews.
  
 Do you think DT5 is worth adding to my top 2 KZ's?
  
 .....I'm just willing to add 1 more to my KZ bunch.....which one would you think is worthy?


----------



## bhazard

The regular DT5 isn't so hot. Would have to be the Pole version


----------



## rontant

How do DT5PE stack against DT3?


----------



## BigGearHunter

Hisoundfi, can you post any pictures please?


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> How do DT5PE stack against DT3?


 
  
 It's a direct upgrade from the DT3, which is saying a lot because I really like the DT3. It's similar bass in terms of quantity but is better in attack and texture. Seperation and imaging is improved. Resolution is improved immensely over my DT3. Treble is crisper.
  
 DT3 is really good IMHO, the KZDT5PE is already top 2 of all the KZ I have and probably number 1. I just have to give it some time to confirm it.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Upon further review, the bass can be a tad much on some acoustic music with the DT5PE. It's definitely not bass shy. I like the resolution, imaging and detail for a $30 IEM though...


----------



## Hisoundfi




----------



## HraD2

hisoundfi said:


> The KZ dt5 pole edition came in and so far IT ROCKS!


 
 Is there chineese letters on each earphone? Or KZ.hifi.bass?


----------



## 1clearhead

bhazard said:


> The regular DT5 isn't so hot. Would have to be the Pole version


 
  
 Thanks! I meant the DT5 -Pole Version.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> It's a direct upgrade from the DT3, which is saying a lot because I really like the DT3. It's similar bass in terms of quantity but is better in attack and texture. Seperation and imaging is improved. Resolution is improved immensely over my DT3. Treble is crisper.
> 
> DT3 is really good IMHO, the KZDT5PE is already top 2 of all the KZ I have and probably number 1. I just have to give it some time to confirm it.


 
  
  


hisoundfi said:


> Upon further review, the bass can be a tad much on some acoustic music with the DT5PE. It's definitely not bass shy. I like the resolution, imaging and detail for a $30 IEM though...


 
  
 Thanks for the mini review and feedback!


----------



## mochill

looks like it says kz.dt on the body?


----------



## Hisoundfi

hrad2 said:


> Is there chineese letters on each earphone? Or KZ.hifi.bass?


Chinese and English letters on a gold band


----------



## Hisoundfi




----------



## dflock

KZ LPS with VMODA XL pads


----------



## dflock

LPS with VMODA XL pads with original pads off.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dflock said:


> LPS with VMODA XL pads with original pads off.




Awesome....can't wait for my LPS to arrive. Hope they fit my teeny noggin. If not...well...dang.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The EDSE are beyond awesome. The Pistons have nothing on them in terms of sheer musical enjoyment, nor on build quality. Lovin' these things. For those that also have the ANV, how do they stack up vs. the EDSE?


----------



## B9Scrambler

milanche78 said:


> I use mostly micro rings more comfortable for my small ears than edse + less problems with the plug.




The Micro Ring as still my favorite of the KZ offerings I've tried...all two of them, lol. Did they give you a bunch of useless tips with yours, or were they all properly designed to fit the Micro Ring?


----------



## rontant

I wonder if the KZ Micro Ring is as good as Sony MH1 (minus the cable microscopic problem). Can anyone who own both of them please comment?  I really like the sound signature of MH1 but I hardly use it because its cable microscopic sound is driving me nuts.
  
@Hisoundfi, I notice you rank KZ Micro RIng several place lower than MH1. Care to share more?


----------



## bhazard

rontant said:


> I wonder if the KZ Micro Ring is as good as Sony MH1 (minus the cable microscopic problem). Can anyone who own both of them please comment?  I really like the sound signature of MH1 but I hardly use it because its cable microscopic sound is driving me nuts.
> 
> @Hisoundfi, I notice you rank KZ Micro RIng several place lower than MH1. Care to share more?


 
 MH1 beats it. I sent my pair to sfwalcer awhile ago and they couldn't match up to them.


----------



## rontant

bhazard said:


> MH1 beats it. I sent my pair to sfwalcer awhile ago and they couldn't match up to them.


 
 Thanks bhazard, that's what I suspected.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I hope more impressions come in on the new KZ stuff. KZ has been catching some heat in other threads. I will say that progress is often times the most important product, and what KZ is doing little by little is improving their product in both build and sound quality. 

I think the conclusion to stop buying KZ stuff isn't the answer. I'm jamming the new stuff a lot lately. 

QC issues? Ya sometimes

You're not going to hear me complaining about the 10 bucks I lose when that happens. I have stuff in my KZ collection that destroys the likes of the piston, and hangs with stuff I've paid more than ten times as much for.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> I hope more impressions come in on the new KZ stuff. KZ has been catching some heat in other threads. I will say that progress is often times the most important product, and what KZ is doing little by little is improving their product in both build and sound quality.
> 
> I think the conclusion to stop buying KZ stuff isn't the answer. I'm jamming the new stuff a lot lately.
> 
> ...




Yeah...I don't understand the flack. For the price they are awesome. Take price out of the equation and many of their offerings are still pretty respectable. I'm much happier with my EDSE and Micros than I am with the Pistons. They are quite dull in comparison...look pretty though (microphonic cable is a big no-no).

For example...yesterday I brought the EDSE and VSD3 to work. Spent most of my time with the EDSE. Today I brought the Micro Ring and JVC FX3X. Micros are in my ears ATM. KZ doesn't make the best earphones out there, but they offer massive bang for the buck.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I hope more impressions come in on the new KZ stuff. KZ has been catching some heat in other threads. I will say that progress is often times the most important product, and what KZ is doing little by little is improving their product in both build and sound quality.
> 
> I think the conclusion to stop buying KZ stuff isn't the answer. I'm jamming the new stuff a lot lately.
> 
> ...




That is why that Thread has become like a mine field ......that thread used to be fun helpful and informative on the latest find but it isn't anymore where any menber can introduce any iem or headphone ...Me am so out of that thread ....the more respond will only get that thread locked down ......


----------



## Hisoundfi

If you wanna blow your brains out with bass and like dre beats sound, get the KZPLE
  
 If you can handle heavy bass, and want good imaging and seperation the KZDT5PE might be the KZ to try.
  
 If you like bass with a warm and soft sound, get the DT3 or the R3
  
 If you want something more on the balanced and lean side of KZ product line offerings and you can handle some crisp and bordering on harsh highs, get the ED3 or ES
  
 If you want a mid-centric musical sound with solid bas and treble get the KZEDSE
  
 If you want the most balanced and neutral KZ IEM there is give the KZ MICRO RING a try.
  
 If you want to feel like KZ stole your money, get the KZ RX, KZ ANV, or KZ 2013
  
 If you want two sounds at one low price (one relatively balanced and bright and one bass cannon piston like sound) get the KZ GR


----------



## Hisoundfi

I really love the sound of the KZDT5PE. If I drew a conclusion that all KZ sucks because I bought a model that didn't sound as good as these I never would have tried them.
  
  
 Seriously guys, if you can handle some serious bass these are great. They definitely fall into the "basshead audiophile" category


----------



## Wokei

Hisoundfi..then you will enjoy these


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Hisoundfi..then you will enjoy these


Great minds think alike! 

I bought those on the 11-11 sale! 

Impressions now! 

Please and thank you☺


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> Great minds think alike!
> 
> I bought those on the 11-11 sale!
> 
> ...




Outta box...meh....need mochill recommended burn in duration..lol....It's bass cannon sound signature and only after some period of burn in..the treble and vocal do reveal themselves...not harsh with decent detail...good for those who can't take to kindly to bright iem...also seem pretty hard to drive compared to my Vivo...need to crack up the volume pretty high...best sound achieved thru amp imho...build quality is uber excellent...the best imho.....good for edm trance genre...me pretty confident you will like it



Edit...Still trying out different tips to find me sweet spot...Haha


----------



## Hisoundfi

Very cool. How does it compare to the t1e?


----------



## Wokei

Tbh...TTPod still rocks big time for me...but for the price and built quality....Still damm good buy...though for some tracks the sub bass do bleed into the the mid...imho the bass and sub bass hit pretty hard and low..bass head level and wide bore tip hit the hardest...as for me now using bullet shaped tip to tone down the bass...ymmv


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Tbh...TTPod still rocks big time for me...but for the price and built quality....Still damm good buy...though for some tracks the sub bass do bleed into the the mid...imho the bass and sub bass hit pretty hard and low..bass head level and wide bore tip hit the hardest...as for me now using bullet shaped tip to tone down the bass...ymmv


The cable on those things looks amazeballs. If they suck I'll probably use the cable for something else


----------



## Wokei

The price on those 25$ is worth the cable price on its own...the jack and the y splitter is also freaking awesome..lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> The price on those 25$ is worth the cable price on its own...the jack and the y splitter is also freaking awesome..lol


Very cool. Are the housings really cheap and light plastic? How do they look in person?


----------



## Wokei

They look expensive though they are plastic...me first words were..OMG...following the phrase of one of me buddy headfier..."amazeballs"...


----------



## Hisoundfi

Nice to have you back dude. 

One of these days I'm going to send you a pair of iems to braid the cable. Less girly colors than the one pics you put up though, lol


----------



## Wokei

Me latest purchase...hopefully they will arrive next week....

Yup...buddy..if you sent them..me will braid them for you...macho colour...rest assured


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Me latest purchase...hopefully they will arrive next week....
> 
> Yup...buddy..if you sent them..me will braid them for you...macho colour...rest assured


conversation moved to pm... 

PS KZ is awesome


----------



## Wokei

One of me fav 

Micro Ring


Of cuz..EDSE too


----------



## Hisoundfi

New avatar


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> New avatar




What is that...enlighten us


----------



## Hisoundfi

Just a fuzzed out picture. 

The bottom says "life is too short to listen to bad headphones" 

Clever


----------



## altrunox

wokei said:


> Me latest purchase...hopefully they will arrive next week....
> 
> Yup...buddy..if you sent them..me will braid them for you...macho colour...rest assured


 
  
 Dude, what iems is that? LOOKS AMAZING!


----------



## bhazard

wokei said:


> Me latest purchase...hopefully they will arrive next week....
> 
> Yup...buddy..if you sent them..me will braid them for you...macho colour...rest assured


 
 What are these? I need to try them. Here's why:
  
 Fun fact about me, I have that Biohazard symbol Tattooed on my back. Hence Bhazard.


----------



## Wokei

bhazard said:


> What are these? I need to try them. Here's why:
> 
> Fun fact about me, I have that Biohazard symbol Tattooed on my back. Hence Bhazard.




Tried to paste the link but the browser is wonky..Will pm you the link

So you are inked too...Haha...me whole back are inked....cheers


----------



## altrunox

wokei said:


> Tried to paste the link but the browser is wonky..Will pm you the link
> 
> So you are inked too...Haha...me whole back are inked....cheers


 
  
 Here is the link www.ebay.com.my/itm/141444995984?redirect=mobile


----------



## Wokei

altrunox said:


> Here is the link www.ebay.com.my/itm/141444995984?redirect=mobile




Dasetn DX1 Diy Project PRO ..name of item
It's currently sold out...this seller will put out about 10-15 units every 2-3 months...if buy it now its about 80-90$ while he will put 2 or 3 unit via bid...me paid 5$ for mine...lucky me cuz no one was bidding for it...he also have it in blue n red colour...been trying to buy it via bid for almost a year...finally


----------



## B9Scrambler

The ANV suck  noooo! I'm waiting for mine to arrive. Was looking forward to them....oh well. I'm sure they will gift well if I don't like em  On the other hand, I seem to like a lot of crappy iems so....


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> One of me fav
> 
> Micro Ring
> 
> ...




Yay! Micro Ring love! wooooo


----------



## knives

wokei said:


> Dasetn DX1 Diy Project PRO ..name of item
> It's currently sold out...this seller will put out about 10-15 units every 2-3 months...if buy it now its about 80-90$ while he will put 2 or 3 unit via bid...me paid 5$ for mine...lucky me cuz no one was bidding for it...he also have it in blue n red colour...been trying to buy it via bid for almost a year...finally


 
 Wow, i am curious about these:
 http://www.dasetn.com/dynamic-unite-dx1-iem-professional-sound-noise-isolating-hifi-earphonebrown_p3402.html
 http://www.dasetn.com/dynamic-unite-dx1-iem-professional-sound-noise-isolating-hifi-earphoneblue_p3401.html
 http://www.dasetn.com/dynamic-unite-dx1-iem-professional-sound-noise-isolating-hifi-earphoneorange_p3403.html
  
 Waiting for your impressions, if they are as good as Vsonic VSD3S or others in the $40-$60 range.


----------



## Hisoundfi

b9scrambler said:


> The ANV suck
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The build quality on the KZ ANV is breathtaking, seriously. It's the most well built IEM I have, honest. The problem is that the sound is meh, and there's other KZ stuff that is way better than these.


----------



## Arvan

wokei said:


> @Hisoundfi..then you will enjoy these


 
 What is that! and where do i buy it?


----------



## bhazard

There's a dasetn thread on Head-fi. They make good stuff too, like KZ.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> The build quality on the KZ ANV is breathtaking, seriously. It's the most well built IEM I have, honest. The problem is that the sound is meh, and there's other KZ stuff that is way better than these.




Comfort and build quality can override* sound quality in some limited circumstances. If they fit my ears well, they'll still have a place in my collection.

* if they sound like absolute dirt, then disregard everything....Xmas coming up! lol


----------



## knives

bhazard said:


> There's a dasetn thread on Head-fi. They make good stuff too, like KZ.


 

 On head-fi i only find dasetn threats about earbuds, not about IEM.


----------



## smy1

wokei said:


> One of me fav
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am a noob what's a micro ring?


----------



## Wokei

arvan said:


> What is that! and where do i buy it?




http://pt.aliexpress.com/store/product/DIY-E2C-in-ear-HiFi-earphone-earbud-headphone-for-MP3-free-shipping/1183804_2034343828.html




smy1 said:


> I am a noob what's a micro ring?




Initially these were sold with a silicone ring around the housing but its no longer comes with it ...here is a pic of the original Micro Ring


----------



## 1clearhead

After first listen to the KZ-EDSE, they are amazing!
  
 I think I'll put them a dab ahead against the KZ-ES. They're just that good!
  
 I don't even think is bass heavy, they sound just right to me. The mids and the highs are so accurate, reminds me of the DGS100's, just in a dynamic way.
  
 Glad I purchased them!!!


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> I really love the sound of the KZDT5PE. If I drew a conclusion that all KZ sucks because I bought a model that didn't sound as good as these I never would have tried them.
> 
> 
> Seriously guys, if you can handle some serious bass these are great. They definitely fall into the "basshead audiophile" category


 
  
 @*Hisoundfi, *Do you think this one is the Pole Editiion? http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.VroiMw&id=41837066872&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail
  
 With 1600+ orders and 600+ fairly positive feedbacks I guess it's not bad.


----------



## rontant

I'd rank the KZs I got as follows:
  
 KZ DT3>KZ GR>>>>>>>>>> KZ SE>KZ EDSE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>KZ ANV. 
  
 I can't make myself to fall in love with SE & EDSE.
  
 EDSE has adequate mid and bass but doesn't have enough  treble extension I want. The treble sounds "dry". Sound stage is not up to my expectation.   SE has the soundstage I want but the mid is too recessed for vocals and the treble doesn't sound nice to me. So only DT3 and GR are keepers for me.


----------



## Hisoundfi

My eq setting for my lps. Brings the top end up to par and actually improves the sound stage IMHO


----------



## smy1

In ur opinion whats better pistons 2.1 or edse or dt3


----------



## Hisoundfi

smy1 said:


> In ur opinion whats better pistons 2.1 or edse or dt3


IMHO 

KZEDSE>DTE>PISTON 

The more in ears I listen to, the more flaws I find in the Pistons. The bass bleed and distortion in lower mids bothers me on some tracks. It's still a good buy, but not as much as I used to think.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> IMHO
> 
> KZEDSE>DTE>PISTON
> 
> The more in ears I listen to, the more flaws I find in the Pistons. The bass bleed and distortion in lower mids bothers me on some tracks. It's still a good buy, but not as much as I used to think.


 
  
 The best way I found out to tame the overwhelming bass from the Pistons is using comply foam tips. But, definitely out the box the KZ-EDSE is just more fun to listen to.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> I'd rank the KZs I got as follows:
> 
> KZ DT3>KZ GR>>>>>>>>>> KZ SE>KZ EDSE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>KZ ANV.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6310511143.html
  
 This is the one I'm referring to.
  
 Cheers


----------



## 1clearhead

Man! They look tempting!!!


----------



## Hisoundfi

I just realized I'm abreviating it wrong, it should be KZDT5PTE

Man oh man this is getting complicated lol


----------



## 1clearhead

You were dead-on with the KZ-EDSE, they are incredibly sweet to listen to!
  
 Do you think the KZ-DT5PTE are worthy to be added to my KZ collection? If you think so? Than I'll add them to my list.


----------



## 1clearhead

Question..... Are these part of the KZ line-up?
  
http://tw.taobao.com/item/41807332771.htm?spm=a1z3o.7406521.0.0.oIXFsY
  
  
 .....They look pretty good by the looks of it.


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6310511143.html
> 
> This is the one I'm referring to.
> 
> Cheers


 
 i can't find KZ-DT5PTE at Taobao. Those sold through Taobao are just plain DT5. Seems that DT5PTE are only available in Aliexpress, maybe made for export only?


----------



## Ruben123

Any of them recommended over Monoprices for classical music? i.e. natural, no bassy, good details in mids and highs, good value and not expensive on eBay/DX?


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> i can't find KZ-DT5PTE at Taobao. Those sold through Taobao are just plain DT5. Seems that DT5PTE are only available in Aliexpress, maybe made for export only?


Can't you just order them from that link? 

Given your posts, and what I see as your preferred sound siggy, I would assume that you'd really like these DT5PTE



1clearhead said:


> You were dead-on with the KZ-EDSE, they are incredibly sweet to listen to!
> 
> Do you think the KZ-DT5PTE are worthy to be added to my KZ collection? If you think so? Than I'll add them to my list.


They have more bass than my kzedse, but retain good imaging and seperation, and the treble is not as crisp as my edse. It's a sub bass forward sound. I really like it.


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> Can't you just order them from that link?
> 
> Given your posts, and what I see as your preferred sound siggy, I would assume that you'd really like these DT5PTE


 
 Oh yes, I can order from that Aliexpress link. Since I am also ordering some other iems from Taobao using a freight forwarder, I thought I could save some shipping cost by consolidating all orders if only I could order DT5PTE from Taobao as well, unfortunately DT5PTE is not available.
  
 Thanks for your recommendation. I may get DT5PTE from Aliexpress but I will wait for a month or so for the price to drop a bit.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Good call, you probably won't have to wait too long. KZ drops their prices pretty quickly.


----------



## mul1d

Just got my LPs and iems in the post today(finally) it says just lp on the box. Is that normal?


----------



## Ira Delphic

mul1d said:


> Just got my LPs and iems in the post today(finally) it says just lp on the box. Is that normal?


 
  
 Why not post some photos?


----------



## Etzer

Been reading this thread for awhile now and thought I'd register for the forums. 

Given the reactions, I can't believe the prices on these. Admittedly, my experience with IEMs is limited. If I liked the Brainwavz M4, and found the treble on the B2 too harsh, what KZ would any of you recommend?


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Can't you just order them from that link?
> 
> Given your posts, and what I see as your preferred sound siggy, I would assume that you'd really like these DT5PTE
> They have more bass than my kzedse, but retain good imaging and seperation, and the treble is not as crisp as my edse. It's a sub bass forward sound. I really like it.


 
  
 Thanks for the mini details!


----------



## mul1d




----------



## dflock

mul1d said:


>




Same box I received, but headphones i got appeared to be LPS with black stitching on headband (original lp has blueish stitching).


----------



## smy1

is there anyway i can punch holes on the filter on gr gk lol?
  
 also got my cm9 they sound ok.
  
 and what are those wool thing on the cm9 where u put the ear tip on or whatever and what is the iem noise things called where u put the earpiece in and what are some headphones like edse has these grills what are they suppose to do? and what happens if you take them out?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Sad confession to make.
  
 The more I listen to my KZ DT5PTE, the worse it sounds. I keep getting considerable driver flex every time I adjust them, and they are becoming more and more muffled/bassy sounding. The were great first day but the more I use them, the more and more the bass drowns everything out. I thought maybe it was my ears, but comparing them to other iems, they are definitely changing for the worse, sad to say, as out of the box they were very promising.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Trying a new tip (lunashops, my go to gray/red) and getting better results. Still a ton of bass though.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm thinking they are very Tenore-ish in that any kind of built up pressure in the ear canal causes the driver to perform awkwardly.
  
 Taking pressure off the driver while still making a seal cleans them up. Putting pressure on them creates driver flex and makes them sound muffled in comparison.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Ugh, so much bass though. Definitely basshead level.


----------



## Ruben123

Please Im planning on buying a pair for Christmas. Which are the best for clasiscal music? ED1/ED2/ED special edition.......? How are they compared to the Monoprice 8320s and TTPODs?


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> Sad confession to make.
> 
> The more I listen to my KZ DT5PTE, the worse it sounds. I keep getting considerable driver flex every time I adjust them, and they are becoming more and more muffled/bassy sounding. The were great first day but the more I use them, the more and more the bass drowns everything out. I thought maybe it was my ears, but comparing them to other iems, they are definitely changing for the worse, sad to say, as out of the box they were very promising.


 
  
 Don't be sad, that's a good news for me because this mean I can scratch it off from my "To buy" list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Frankly I don't like the look of  DT5. It somehow reminds me of those boxer pants.


----------



## rontant

ruben123 said:


> Please Im planning on buying a pair for Christmas. Which are the best for clasiscal music? ED1/ED2/ED special edition.......? How are they compared to the Monoprice 8320s and TTPODs?


 
  
 I only have EDSE, GR, ES, DT3 and ANV so I can't give a complete answer but If I were to listen to string quartet classics using one of those, KZ GR would be my choice.  IMHO, TTPOD is a class higher than all the KZ models I have but unfortunately I have a comfort issue with TTPOD so it has become one of the least loved iems in my collection.
  
 Just be aware though, that someone got a bad unit of KZ GR not long ago, but statistically, GR seems to fare quite good here.


----------



## Ruben123

Thanks a lot. The GRs are priced the same as the TTPODs so that'll be easy then I guess... but, for other readers, how do thel here well loved EDSEs compare to the TTPODs -and for classical music?


----------



## bhazard

The Tennmak Dulcimer and TTPod T1E are similar to me. Dulcimer is better at mids and guitars, but the highs are smoother and more rolled off. Both are better than KZ models so far, but neither are $7-9


----------



## Ira Delphic

*KZ DT3 - Fantastic Plastic!*
  
 My DT3 arrived a half hour ago and I'm pleased to report that the sonic properties are very decent! I sampled a range of music - MGMT - Alien Days,  Actress R.I.P, Caribou - Our Love, Paganini Violin Concerto no 1 in D major ...
  
 The sound is as good if not better than Xiaomi Pistons. The bass is definitely tighter and better defined. I wasn't expecting much after being disappointed with the sound of the KZ ES.
  
 The DT3's are lightweight, silver colored plastic. The cable is about what you'd find in low end ear buds - thin and rubber material. The ES on the other hand are hefty, made of some kind of metal, with thick plastic/rubber cord. With this model it appears that KZ paid more attention providing good sound and put their money into higher quality drivers!
  
 I purchased from a seller on Aliexpress seller - paid $12.64. I must have missed it but retail package was not included, but was available for an extra $3. I noticed that on the invoice before the IEM's  arrived in the mail. Included with the DT3 is 3 sets of rubber tips and a plastic shirt clip enclosed in a tiny zip-lock bag,  bubble wrap and tightly taped. That's fine by me. I really didn't need that KZ cardboard box, lol.


----------



## DynamikeB

Got my KZ DT3 about 10 days ago and out of the box, with stock tips, I was far from impressed.  Lot of bass.  Burned them in for a few hours, no real remarkable change.
  
 I tried them back yesterday evening, and tried some tip change.  Wow!  With the Comply T-400, I don't know what happens but the bass still kicks (way less), but now I get a real nice warm sound with enough present mids and cool slightly rolled off treble.  Very pleasand listening and awesome for most style I have on my ipod.
  
 I add Fiio E5 and it's even better.  Interesting.
  
 DT3 will now be just on top of my list for KZ.  Followed by KZ ES and SE (these are different, tip dependent) from which I cannot say which one is better.  KZ GR fall behind.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The thing I like about the dt3 is the treble. It sounds very high end. The bass and warm/soft sound is complemented by that awesome treble response


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> The thing I like about the dt3 is the treble. It sounds very high end. The bass and warm/soft sound is complemented by that awesome treble response


 
  
 Yes the treble is very nice. The bass was a bit too much emphasis for the classical music that I tested them with. But I haven't changed EQ settings yet. 
  
 Interesting DynamikeB (and others) like the ES. I doubt there are KZ ES fakes out there so I assume I just got a lemon. I doubt KZ  does a QC test on each IEM off the production line, lol!


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> Yes the treble is very nice. The bass was a bit too much emphasis for the classical music that I tested them with. But I haven't changed EQ settings yet.
> 
> Interesting DynamikeB (and others) like the ES. I doubt there are KZ ES fakes out there so I assume I just got a lemon. I doubt KZ  does a QC test on each IEM off the production line, lol!


I think that has to do with signature preference. KZ es is just a flat out brighter sound that many people who are sensitive to sharper highs won't enjoy as much. That and the QC 

If you like the dt3 and dislike the es I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I strongly recommend the kzedse. It's sound is somewhere between the dt3 and ES, like a love child of the two.


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> I think that has to do with signature preference. KZ es is just a flat out brighter sound that many people who are sensitive to sharper highs won't enjoy as much. That and the QC
> 
> If you like the dt3 and dislike the es I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I strongly recommend the kzedse. It's sound is somewhere between the dt3 and ES, like a love child of the two.


 
  
 I don't want to beat a dead horse (or an $8 IEM's!) but my copy of ES have horrible treble. In fact they are un-listenable. I did a test, in an earlier post - my gf confirmed (with a blind test because she doesn't know what a KZ is) that my copy of ES really sucked. So for those of you considering ES - don't factor in my findings. I doubt representative.


----------



## DynamikeB

Ira Delphic, what tips do you use with the ES?  
  
 I find the ES and the SE to have a somewhat agressive treble up front, especially without any burn in (and/or brain adjustment), but after a little time, it gets better.  And I don't really use stock tips.   I am not sure I found the right tips yet for me vs ES and SE.  They are both really good iems for the price.  I find the cable superior on these than the DT3, for example, but imaging varies so much.  I find the ES breathes more (i wouldn't be able to put it in technical terms), and the SE to be more fun and in your face.  The best tips I used on them up to now are the ones that came with the Ostry KC06A, with a red filter (that seem to cut the treble a bit).  But I am not done with the tip rolling...


----------



## Hisoundfi

dynamikeb said:


> Ira Delphic, what tips do you use with the ES?
> 
> I find the ES and the SE to have a somewhat agressive treble up front, especially without any burn in (and/or brain adjustment), but after a little time, it gets better.  And I don't really use stock tips.   I am not sure I found the right tips yet for me vs ES and SE.  They are both really good iems for the price.  I find the cable superior on these than the DT3, for example, but imaging varies so much.  I find the ES breathes more (i wouldn't be able to put it in technical terms), and the SE to be more fun and in your face.  The best tips I used on them up to now are the ones that came with the Ostry KC06A, with a red filter (that seem to cut the treble a bit).  But I am not done with the tip rolling...


 
 I agree that after several hours of burn in the treble does settle down and resolution improves.


----------



## 1clearhead

The KZ-EDSE are an incredible little gem. Soundstage and separation are really good with life-like vocals. I can't stress enough to say that they remind me of the dgs100 in the form of a dynamic diaphragm signature way _-if that makes sense_.
  
 Now with the KZ-ES, best bet is to use the Sidy foam tips -eliminates the splashy treble and creates a non-fatiguing great signature.


----------



## energy52ro

hisoundfi said:


> The build quality on the KZ ANV is breathtaking, seriously. It's the most well built IEM I have, honest. The problem is that the sound is meh, and there's other KZ stuff that is way better than these.


 

 Hey Hisoundfi. Please try to cover the small vents on the plastic faceplate, near the tip, with a small piece of sticky tape/scotch and let us know if you notice any improvement. I had a feeling that due to the diameter of the driver, these would be capable of "some" bass, but never expected that much. They just need to become sealed; the only downside to this is that the driver would flex. With this "mod", they're easily the most powerful iems I own in terms of bass.


----------



## nismo88

Received the DT3 a few days ago and have been listening to it all the time... bass extends low but is just nice in quantity, not overwhelming... mid and high are surprisingly detailed with clarity... this by far is the best sounding KZ in my collection...
 DT3 > ES > EDSE > ED3 > R3 > GR (bad ports)


----------



## Etzer

Well, after reading through the impressions here, I thought I might as well get a few of them considering they're on sale.
  
 I just ordered...
  
 EDSE
 ED3
 DT3
 GR
 ANV
  
 ...all for $35.


----------



## Ruben123

Nismo88 do your GRs sound bad because theyre defect or do they just sound worst of them?

As you may know im trying tot find out wether one KZ or TTPOD is an actual upgrade for the Monoprices (Christmas is coming)


----------



## Ultimatum

Seems like defect.
 He said "Bad ports"


----------



## slowpickr

ultimatum said:


> Seems like defect.
> He said "Bad ports"


 
  
 I think he means missing air holes in the filters.  My set was this way and made them sound like crap.
  
 On a separate note, check these out:
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-DT3-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/615477_1992303253.html
  
 Looks like KZ is re-branding with a "fish" series LOL!


----------



## Ira Delphic

I just use the stock tips with the ES. I'll continue to burn in. Still impressed with the DT3. It's a nice warm, fun sound. I have a new pair of TTPOD T1-E  that I still haven't spend time with. 
 I'm going to wait until the next generation of KZ before I get another pair. I'm up to my *** in IEM's right now! But nice to have plenty of extras! 
  
 Interesting the *Tuna brand* - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-X7-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-headset-lightweight-design-mp3-mp4-earphone-computer/1992303253.html
 Looks like a DT3.
  
 tunaheadset.com (I can't access this - blocked from my firewall for now)


----------



## jesh462

Hey guys, what would you rate the KZ DT3 in terms of sound but also comfort, especially laying on your side? How about versus the TTPOD T1-E?


----------



## Ira Delphic

jesh462 said:


> Hey guys, what would you rate the KZ DT3 in terms of sound but also comfort, especially laying on your side? How about versus the TTPOD T1-E?


 
  
 Laying on your side, like on a pillow? I would not want to do this with the DT3. The tip will stick straight in your ear canal. It is cylinder shaped and protrudes a significant amount. TTPOD T1-E - less so but still not ideal.


----------



## jesh462

Ok, how about comfort besides that?


----------



## DynamikeB

I would say DT3 has a small driver, but comfort and isolation depends a bit on the tips used, like in some of my other iems.
  
 If you want to sleep with them, as Ira Delphic mentioned, not really possible.  I use Soundmagic E30 to lay on a pillow.  Not the same price range, but not the same sound either.


----------



## slowpickr

I've found the Ostry KC06As to be good for lying on one's side on a pillow.


----------



## Chavecat

Hmm now I'm interested
 Which model would be best for someone who like good bass but doesn't want to lose too much mids or highs
 Looking at the R3, are those good? Detachable cable and all that


----------



## Hisoundfi

chavecat said:


> Hmm now I'm interested
> Which model would be best for someone who like good bass but doesn't want to lose too much mids or highs
> Looking at the R3, are those good? Detachable cable and all that


 
 My R3 are almost all bass.
  
 I say go for the DT3 or the KSEDSE


----------



## Chavecat

hisoundfi said:


> My R3 are almost all bass.
> 
> I say go for the DT3 or the KSEDSE


 
 I have no idea what the KSEDSE are, I can't seem to find them


----------



## jesh462

Knowledge Zenith ED Special Edition


----------



## nismo88

ruben123 said:


> Nismo88 do your GRs sound bad because theyre defect or do they just sound worst of them?
> 
> As you may know im trying tot find out wether one KZ or TTPOD is an actual upgrade for the Monoprices (Christmas is coming)


 

 The GR sounded bad because the actual ports that come with them is not the same as what is in the pics on the sale site

  
  If you see in most product pics of GR you will find that the red ports have a hole on it (bottom pic) .... but the red ports that comes with the order is slightly different in design and do not have any hole (top pic) .  I feel this is the main reason which affects the sound. 
  
 I have checked with the seller again and they told me that all the KZ GR they have on hand is the new kind of ports without hole.  The pics on their sale sites is old pics and new pics of ports not updated....  Having said that I do not know if other sellers also sell GR with new port or the original port... This could be important to find out first before you order.... BUT....I did that... they said they have original ports... and guess what... the new GR still come with ports without hole.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Pics here are borrowed from other bros here posted previously.... not mine....


----------



## Hisoundfi

That's my thumb!


----------



## rontant

What a huge price difference between shops! GR from $9.84 to $54.


----------



## rontant

Seems like all shops claim to be the "official flaghship store".
  
 I got my GR and EDSE from the store who claims to be an "official flagship store":
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6240839956.html
 http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6240839955.html
  
 While my ANV is from this http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6240839957.html who also claims to be another "official flagship store".


----------



## nismo88

hisoundfi said:


> That's my thumb!


 

 Phew.... luckily I said the pics are not mine


----------



## nismo88

rontant said:


> I got my GR and EDSE from the store who claims to be an "official flagship store":
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6240839956.html
> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6240839955.html


 
 I got my GR from there... they told me all their GR (maybe new batch) is the ports without hole...


----------



## nismo88

Now I got 2 sets of ports without hole..... 
  
 (PS: This is my own pic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## rontant

nismo88 said:


> I got my GR from there... they told me all their GR (maybe new batch) is the ports without hole...


 
  
 My GR came with hole but I bought it in September. I like the sound quality of GR but I don't like EDSE.


----------



## rontant

They should have come with two pairs of ports/filters. A black pair and a red pair. Each pair gives a slightly different sound signature.  
  
 Here are the photos of my GR bought from this shop. I just hope the shop has not turned rogue.


----------



## nismo88

rontant said:


> They should have come with two pairs of ports/filters. A black pair and a red pair. Each pair gives a slightly different sound signature.
> 
> Here are the photos of my GR bought from this shop. I just hope the shop has not turned rogue.


 
 I think the shop is still ok because my DT3 and other iems are fine.... just the GR.  Their explanation was the new batch of GR they have is all with "holeless" ports... My GR came in Oct... Both the red and black ports look the same without ports...


----------



## nismo88

I just checked with another shop on the KZ-GR to see if they have the ports with hole but they replied the new batch is all without holes.... Bummer!


----------



## Ruben123

So the GR are a no-go now, not only for classical music. Er, so, which is then the best upgrade regarding Monoprices with natural sound (flattest eq possible)? DT3 or EDSE or...? 
And if Id prefer to save my money till I can afford a TTPOD, would that be better then the ''best'' KZ for classical and how's the difference in value now most of the KZ seem to have 30% off or so? Are TTPODs $20 more worth it or is the difference too small (since the KZs also went for $25 first)?

Thanks again, I know Im a pain in the #ss for you lol.


----------



## slowpickr

nismo88 said:


> I just checked with another shop on the KZ-GR to see if they have the ports with hole but they replied the new batch is all without holes.... Bummer!


 
 And I thought my set was defective.  Bummer is right.  Usually, companies improve designs and not go backwards.  Guess KZ is an exception
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## rontant

Lots of unknown here with KZ. Even though the store is not rogue but they could have got the GR from a rogue source. There are at least 20 listings of GR in Aliexpress and we don't know if all of them have started to sell a "holeless" GR or just a few of them only.


----------



## Ira Delphic

jesh462 said:


> Hey guys, what would you rate the KZ DT3 in terms of sound but also comfort, especially laying on your side? How about versus the TTPOD T1-E?


 
  
 Update to prior post. The TTPOD T1-E are angled slightly so aren't straight out like the DT3.. They might actually work ok for the use you describe, but I think you can do better - a recessed IEM for sleeping.
 There's a thread on IEM's for sleeping. Philips SHE3580 was one of the best. I have the SHE3580 but imo the sound is simply awful. Tinny and no base. This is contrary to the consensus opinion here and on Amazon.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ruben123 said:


> So the GR are a no-go now, not only for classical music. Er, so, which is then the best upgrade regarding Monoprices with natural sound (flattest eq possible)? DT3 or EDSE or...?
> And if Id prefer to save my money till I can afford a TTPOD, would that be better then the ''best'' KZ for classical and how's the difference in value now most of the KZ seem to have 30% off or so? Are TTPODs $20 more worth it or is the difference too small (since the KZs also went for $25 first)?
> 
> Thanks again, I know Im a pain in the #ss for you lol.


 
  
 I hate to say it, and _this may sound like blasphemy_, but I'm getting as much pleasure listening to music with the DT3 as the TTPOD T1-E! Sure the sound signature is very different. medium-fi indie rock. The treble/highs on the TTPOD T1-E are more accurate, but I like the mids and bass on the DT3. This is with the white silicon tips of the TTPOD T1-E, will try the hybrid tips included in the package tonight. 
  
 I may grow to appreciate the TTPOD T1-E more with the right tips, but the DT3 are an amazing value for the price. And I like the lightweight plastic and thin cord is not a big negative. I'll likely pick up a spare DT3 just to have around.


----------



## rontant

I will pick DT3 anytime over TTPOD T1E just because I like the warmth and nice open sound stage of DT3. The treble is gentle for my ears.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> Update to prior post. The TTPOD T1-E are angled slightly so aren't straight out like the DT3.. They might actually work ok for the use you describe, but I think you can do better - a recessed IEM for sleeping.
> There's a thread on IEM's for sleeping. Philips SHE3580 was one of the best. I have the SHE3580 but imo the sound is simply awful. Tinny and no base. This is contrary to the consensus opinion here and on Amazon.


The she3580 should have loads of bass, sounds like a tip issue. Tinny sound and no bass is a big indicator for a seal issue resulting from using the wrong tip for your ear type. 

My iem for sleeping, laying down is the Sony mdr-ex58v. It sits flush, has a cable cinch, and even has a volume control on the cable. 

Another good one for sleeping is the soundmagic e30.


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> The she3580 should have loads of bass, sounds like a tip issue. *Tinny sound and no bass is a big indicator for a seal issue resulting from using the wrong tip for your ear type.*
> 
> My iem for sleeping, laying down is the Sony mdr-ex58v. It sits flush, has a cable cinch, and even has a volume control on the cable.
> 
> Another good one for sleeping is the soundmagic e30.


 
  
 As a test I jam them in my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - that usually produces lots of bass. But only for testing purposes and not a solution. I can't see the point of messing with different tips with $10 earphones - but heck, I have an expanding collection of extra tips so will give it a try.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> As a test I jam them in my ears :eek:  - that usually produces lots of bass. But only for testing purposes and not a solution. I can't see the point of messing with different tips with $10 earphones - but heck, I have an expanding collection of extra tips so will give it a try.


Welcome to the world of tip rolling my friend. It is often times a more rewarding experience than buying something new.


----------



## aisforanti

I just ordered the KZ GR, but did not read about the problem with the ports.. oh well. Hope it's not that big of a problem with the black ports ( they were for bass, right?)
 I Currently have the EDSE and ES, I preffer the EDSE due to my love for EDM, but the problem is the fit.. I think I have narrow ear canals and they are not really comfortable.
 I also have the Pistons 2.0, which with the smallests size tips fit very good. 
 Can you guys recomend me some good eartips on the cheap side?


----------



## jesh462

ira delphic said:


> Update to prior post. The TTPOD T1-E are angled slightly so aren't straight out like the DT3.. They might actually work ok for the use you describe, but I think you can do better - a recessed IEM for sleeping.
> There's a thread on IEM's for sleeping. Philips SHE3580 was one of the best. I have the SHE3580 but imo the sound is simply awful. Tinny and no base. This is contrary to the consensus opinion here and on Amazon.



Thanks! I kind of gave up on laying down on my side with the iem in but I think at this point it's between the DT3 and the Hifiman re-300h. Both are plenty under what I have to spend but I don't want to go super saiyan when I lose them or they get stolen.


----------



## nismo88

aisforanti said:


> I just ordered the KZ GR, but did not read about the problem with the ports.. oh well. Hope it's not that big of a problem with the black ports ( they were for bass, right?)


 
 Both the red and black ports are affected.  As long as you get the new type of "holeless" ports its not good..


----------



## Bigjuggler

I have been following this thread avidly for some time. I have recently become enthusiastic about exploring higher quality audio. As a beginner dipping my toe in the water, the KZ line is a fun way to try some options out. I am really enjoying the ES.....nicely balanced. I haven't done extensive comparisons but they do well against my pistons (of course much lighter base).

I ordered a pair of GR too and like many here, got the ports with no vent holes, and certainly found the sound quality lacking. I too emailed the vendor and was told this was not an error, but that this is the new design. 

Here's my crazy thought......is it possible to drill your own holes? I am no engineer, and I am sure the size and placement are crucial. But faced with the underwhelming sound is it worth a try or will I just ruin them completely? Anyone else thought of trying it?

In the meantime, I am really enjoying.the KZ ES and looking forward to the arrival of my EDSE. I may try the DT3 too for fun (besides I can always give some of them to my teenagers for Christmas). 

Cheers.


----------



## rontant

Maybe it would be helpful if everyone who got the "holeless" GRs post the link of the store where they got them. There are about 20-30 listings of GR in Aliexpress and we don't know whether only certain stores sell these "holeless" GR or all of them.


----------



## 1clearhead

bigjuggler said:


> I have been following this thread avidly for some time. I have recently become enthusiastic about exploring higher quality audio. As a beginner dipping my toe in the water, the KZ line is a fun way to try some options out. I am really enjoying the ES.....nicely balanced. I haven't done extensive comparisons but they do well against my pistons (of course much lighter base).
> 
> I ordered a pair of GR too and like many here, got the ports with no vent holes, and certainly found the sound quality lacking. I too emailed the vendor and was told this was not an error, but that this is the new design.
> 
> ...


 
  
 After my listening experience with the KZ-EDSE, I think they're epic in the sense of depth, soundstage, and imaging. I hear instruments that I couldn't quite catch on my KZ-ES, or any of my other single dynamics, for that matter. I'm definitely buying a second pair for spare.


----------



## tsetse7

1clearhead said:


> After my listening experience with the KZ-EDSE, I think they're epic in the sense of depth, soundstage, and imaging. I hear instruments that I couldn't quite catch on my KZ-ES, or any of my other single dynamics, for that matter. I'm definitely buying a second pair for spare.


 
 I have bought 2 pair of KZ-EDSE to gift some friends so they can realize what kind of crap they are currently using. DT3 on order too.


----------



## slowpickr

rontant said:


> Maybe it would be helpful if everyone who got the "holeless" GRs post the link of the store where they got them. There are about 20-30 listings of GR in Aliexpress and we don't know whether only certain stores sell these "holeless" GR or all of them.


 
  
 I bought my "holeless" GRs from here:
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688


----------



## Bigjuggler

slowpickr said:


> I bought my "holeless" GRs from here:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688




Me too.


----------



## Bigjuggler

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





slowpickr said:


> I bought my "holeless" GRs from here:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688




Me too.


----------



## aisforanti

I used the same seller for my pairs.

 Can anyone recomend any eartips that would fit the Kz's


----------



## Ira Delphic

I just saw *KZ EDSE for $6.86* from the official Aliexpress store! I don't need any more IEM's but must resist!
  
 Also, *DT3 with mic*? Available at this store. Legit? My DT3 has no mic. The 3.5mm jack is 3 sections, not 4.


----------



## Ira Delphic

GR lack of holes -- a cost saving measure? Those tiny holes need to be drilled and that adds to the cost. Anyone from China or Taiwan feel like contacting KZ?
  
 I have no interest in getting a GR but am intriqued by the many mysteries of KZ!  KZ is an enigma!


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> GR lack of holes -- a cost saving measure? Those tiny holes need to be drilled and that adds to the cost. Anyone from China or Taiwan feel like contacting KZ?
> 
> I have no interest in getting a GR but am intriqued by the many mysteries of KZ!  KZ is an enigma!


snoop dogg said it... 

"we don't love them holes"


----------



## Etzer

slowpickr said:


> I bought my "holeless" GRs from here:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688




 I ordered from that store as well but my GR hasn't arrived yet.


----------



## DynamikeB

I got mine from that same store on Aliexpress (1380688) but they are ok (with holes).  They sound good, but DT3 + EDSE and EDES are better.  My opinion.  My GR were ordered at the en of August.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dynamikeb said:


> I got mine from that same store on Aliexpress (1380688) but they are ok (with holes).  They sound good, but DT3 + EDSE and* EDES* are better.  My opinion.  My GR were ordered at the en of August.


 
  
 There's an EDES?


----------



## DynamikeB

Hahaha sorry for the confusion.  KZ ED and KZ ES.  Brain fart = late Friday pm + stupid cold.  No KZ EDES.


----------



## Arvan

Got my working pair of CM-9 today. here is my very first impressions.
  
 Bass is rather deep and quite fast for a big driver. There is some focus on the mid-bass but overall quite natural and not overpowering. For me as a metalhead, this is a good thing since things can get messy with fast kick drums and down tuned fast riffs. 
  
 Midrange is good as well, smooth and clean. I really like my midrange so a little bit more forward mids would not hurt. Overall above average.
  
 Treble is clear and sounds "light" No sibliance at this point. Again very good for metal/rock.
  
 Fit is excellent. Isolation is good as well.
  
 The cable is the weakest part. it´s okey but not much more then that. Compared to the EDSE it´s ****. But then again. that cable is supreme! big + for the small angled plug though.


----------



## nismo88

bigjuggler said:


> Me too.


 

 Me as well...


----------



## Ultimatum

I contacted the vendor and he said that since september they sell only "holeless" ones.
 My GRs didn't arrive yet, i ordered them like 40 days ago.I hope, they will be one of the last with holes.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688 - that store.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dynamikeb said:


> Hahaha sorry for the confusion.  KZ ED and KZ ES.  Brain fart = late Friday pm + stupid cold.  No KZ EDES.


 
  
 With KZ you never know! I thought they dropped a new model.


----------



## BigGearHunter

Finally got my first 2 pairs after one and a half months of waiting 
  
 Right now I'm putting the EDSE through my list of tracks for new IEMs and so far they sound fantastic and I will test the ES quite soon after I'm done with these. It sounds better than the Phillips SHE3590 and they are built beautifully. Wow, KZ is amazing, I can't wait to get my hands on the other 5 pairs I ordered!


----------



## Hisoundfi

My personal opinion is that the kzedse is the best iem deal of 2014 by far.


----------



## Hisoundfi




----------



## BigGearHunter

hisoundfi said:


> My personal opinion is that the kzedse is the best iem deal of 2014 by far.


 

 You might be onto something, specially considering the build quality, sound quality and price. What a steal. I'm excited to hear the ES as well, some people prefer them over the EDSE, but I would be amazed if that's even possible.
  
*EDIT:* Okay, having listened to the ES as well, I can now draw a conclusion. It's also an excellent product, the build quality and sound quality are up there with the EDSE. The bass is definitely more noticeable than on the EDSE, but out of the gate it would seem like the EDSE has a small edge just because it's so damn amazing. They both are, the EDSE is just almost too good to be true.


----------



## PeterDLai

hisoundfi said:


>


 
  
 Did you post this here because this is the Knowledge Zenith killer?


----------



## Hisoundfi

peterdlai said:


> Did you post this here because this is the Knowledge Zenith killer?


Lol, it was a mistake. They are incredible though!


----------



## Arvan

biggearhunter said:


> You might be onto something, specially considering the build quality, sound quality and price. What a steal. I'm excited to hear the ES as well, some people prefer them over the EDSE, but I would be amazed if that's even possible.
> 
> *EDIT:* Okay, having listened to the ES as well, I can now draw a conclusion. It's also an excellent product, the build quality and sound quality are up there with the EDSE. The bass is definitely more noticeable than on the EDSE, but out of the gate it would seem like the EDSE has a small edge just because it's so damn amazing. They both are, the EDSE is just almost too good to be true.


 
 I agree with you on this.. It´s unreal performance for such little money..


----------



## smy1

how is the ed3?


----------



## Ruben123

And dt3 vs edse?


----------



## zeroviz

My GR's *do* have the holes, but they still sound muddy, with bass bleeding into the mids. I haven't given them any
 burn in time, 20 minutes listening after unboxing I chucked them at the back of the draw.
 I picked them out of their box again yesterday just to see if my initial impression had changed....no, still quite horrible really.
  
 For me these are the worst of my KZ buys, while the EDSE has been the best. I have the R3 (base edition) coming which strangely seems to have been dropped from the Flagship store....


----------



## rontant

@zeroviz - I recommend some burn-in and tip rolling for your GR. 
  
 Just curious, do you all have some numbers that look like a serial number on the body of your GR?
  

  

  
 I really like my GR. It's one of my favorites, much better than my EDSE.  
  
 Frankly I am baffled why my EDSE doesn't sound as good as what many of you find. The treble of my EDSE is very dry with a very abrupt decay.  Drums and cymbals sound awful and often make me cringe.
  
 Here are two examples of songs that I can't stand listening to using my EDSE which renders the sound of drums + cymbals ear piercingly painful:
  
 Melody Gardot's  Quiet Fire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsYrpHcGy5E
 Kirk Whalum.-In A Whisper  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQk03N1NtEo
  
 I have no problem listening to these two tracks with my GR.


----------



## deathdemon

KZ-GK (Spartarcus) is my first KZ 's headphones. Bass is really well but silicones ears tips isn't well.  Can anybody suggest the perfect pair for it?


----------



## rontant

deathdemon said:


> KZ-GK (Spartarcus) is my first KZ 's headphones. Bass is really well but silicones ears tips isn't well.  Can anybody suggest the perfect pair for it?




I use Comply TSX500. I tried Comply TS series as well but the seal is not as good TSX series.


----------



## Hisoundfi

smy1 said:


> how is the ed3?


 
 It's pretty decent, somewhat like the edse. I would say it's a poor man's GR07BE. Tuned similar to the GR07BE, but with less resolution.


----------



## mebaali

After a considerable amount of usage, I am finding my KZ ES to be sounding way too good in comparison to my EDSE (both in Highs as well as Lows). In fact, EDSE seems to be having harsh highs (don't know how to describe it but it appears to be some sort of screeching sound ) in my piece. Seeing majority of KZ fans are bigger admirers of EDSE, guess it is most likely a faulty product that ended up in my case.
  
 ATM, my KZ ES>Pistons 2.1>ES18>EDSE


----------



## zeroviz

@ Rontat 
  
  
  Yes my GR's have a serial number too, printed on the left earpiece. Will leave them burning in over the next day, 
 and try some wider bore tips.


----------



## rontant

mebaali said:


> After a considerable amount of usage, I am finding my KZ ES to be sounding way too good in comparison to my EDSE (both in Highs as well as Lows). In fact, EDSE seems to be having harsh highs (don't know how to describe it but it appears to be some sort of screeching sound ) in my piece. Seeing majority of KZ fans are bigger admirers of EDSE, guess it is most likely a faulty product that ended up in my case.
> 
> ATM, my KZ ES>Pistons 2.1>ES18>EDSE


 
  
 You are not alone. I don't like my EDSE too.
  
 KZ DT3>KZ GR>>>KZ ES>>>KZ EDSE>>>>>>>>>>KZ ANV.


----------



## mebaali

@rontant - Good to know that I am not alone in this  Would have loved to order a pair of GRs but reading the horrors of its new design (from the recent buyers) is keeping me away from going for it.
  
 Meanwhile, my LPS (ordered it on 23rd October) is still showing customs security scan status(this is the 4th time my package has been resent for customs in the last 4 weeks). Not sure whether I will ever receive it. Have asked the seller to extend the buyer protection which he promptly did yesterday, though.


----------



## 1clearhead

To determine which is the best sounding out of the KZ bunch set all your EQ's to flat first, than initiate the test. Than you can really hear which ones keeps-up the best balance from accurate lows, life-like vocals, to sparkling highs from a fairly easy listening level...........no cheating!
  
 My personal pick goes to KZ-EDSE with the original default tips. My KZ-ES just sounds too splashy with silicone tips _-thanks to the man upstairs for foam tips_.
  
 That's how I run a fine line on test results for best sounding IEM's.


----------



## rontant

zeroviz said:


> Will leave them burning in over the next day,
> and try some wider bore tips.


 
  
 Find tips that give maximum seal first. Bore size would come next. By the way, I am using black filters/ports and I am wearing the GR over the years using rubber hooks. 
  

  
  
  


mebaali said:


> @rontant - Good to know that I am not alone in this  Would have loved to order a pair of GRs but reading the horrors of its new design (from the recent buyers) is keeping me away from going for it.


 
 Well, if you really want GR and are in an adventurous mood, you can try your luck ordering from other shops in Aliexpress. Don't pick those shops already mentioned above. I would recommend DT3 but since you seem to like KZ-ES very much, I would defer my recommendation.
  
 Personally I think ES is a bit too bright for me. I can tolerate that level of brightness of ES provided it has a treble quality as good as Altone 200 but unfortunately it doesn't.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The es is a more balanced signature than the se, and both the es and see do improve their treble response with burn in, but even after extensive play time, there's something about the es treble that makes it seem harsh, especially at higher volumes. 

I think it's more a matter of resolution and clarity combined with the crispness of the es treble that ruins it for me. Don't get me wrong, I like them, but I can't rank them very high on my list because of the upper mids and treble response. 

Out of the box, my se were a little splashy and harsh out of the box (not on the same level as the es), but burn in brought them to a level that is quite enjoyable.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> The es is a more balanced signature than the se, and both the es and see do improve their treble response with burn in, but even after extensive play time, there's something about the es treble that makes it seem harsh, especially at higher volumes.
> 
> I think it's more a matter of resolution and clarity combined with the crispness of the es treble that ruins it for me. Don't get me wrong, I like them, but I can't rank them very high on my list because of the upper mids and treble response.
> 
> Out of the box, my se were a little splashy and harsh out of the box (not on the same level as the es), but burn in brought them to a level that is quite enjoyable.


 
  
 +1 ....Same here.


----------



## rontant

All my KZs have gone through 200 hours burn-in. That is why I give up on EDSE and ANV. As for ES, I can live with it but it will not be my favorite.


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> All my KZs have gone through 200 hours burn-in. That is why I give up on EDSE and ANV.


Ya, the anv is great build, but it stops there. The sound is pretty meh... 

You like a warm signature, so I can imagine you not being very fond of the es, se, cm9,and ed3

You would like the r3 if I had to guess. Cool build, detachable cables (awesome), and a VERY warm signature with plenty of bass


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> Ya, the anv is great build, but it stops there. The sound is pretty meh...
> 
> You like a warm signature, so I can imagine you not being very fond of the es, se, cm9,and ed3
> 
> You would like the r3 if I had to guess. Cool build, detachable cables (awesome), and a VERY warm signature with plenty of bass


 
 Actually I find EDSE warm enough. It is the quality of its treble and upper mid that I have issue with.
  
 Thanks for the R3 recommendation but isn't it a bit outdated? Can it beat  DT3?


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> Actually I find EDSE warm enough. It is the quality of its treble and upper mid that I have issue with.
> 
> Thanks for the R3 recommendation but isn't it a bit outdated? Can it beat  DT3?


DT3 sounds a hair better up top IMHO, but the removable cable and wood housings make them a keeper in my collection


----------



## bhazard

For anyone who has the EDSE and ES, can someone get a hold of the 4 pin balanced to 3 pin adapter for the RE-600 or something like it and test to see if there is a difference in sound? I doubt we are getting the full SQ of them without a balanced amp.
  
 My soon to arrive Geek Pulse X is balanced, but not for a 4 pin IEM connection, just 4 pin XLR.


----------



## Shawn71

Thought the below link will be useful for those in need.......especially shipped thru china post.

 http://track-chinapost.com/?p=435


----------



## Ruben123

brother wants to have a pair because of the looks and -well- the hype. he listens to 80s rock, country (bob dylan) and newer rock. which should he buy? kdse or ed2 or..?


----------



## altrunox

KZ--LPS should arrive today


----------



## 1clearhead

ruben123 said:


> brother wants to have a pair because of the looks and -well- the hype. he listens to 80s rock, country (bob dylan) and newer rock. which should he buy? kdse or ed2 or..?


 

 Definitely *KZ-EDSE*. Very little break-in period, just pop them in and let the music rock!


----------



## Ira Delphic

1clearhead said:


> Definitely *KZ-EDSE*. Very little break-in period, just pop them in and let the music rock!


 
  
 I never tried a KZ ED SE but the DT3 is pretty good. I prefer the lightweight plastic of the DT3 over the heavier KZ ED SE. 
 I have the ES and from what I can tell the KZ ED SE is a heavy piece of metal like the ES.


----------



## 1clearhead

ira delphic said:


> I never tried a KZ ED SE but the DT3 is pretty good. I prefer the lightweight plastic of the DT3 over the heavier KZ ED SE.
> I have the ES and from what I can tell the KZ ED SE is a heavy piece of metal like the ES.


 
  
 I have the ES and the EDSE.
  
 From what I can see the EDSE are smaller and a lot lighter and can easily be worn all day.....not like the ES which are a little heavy and bigger and the metal housing seems indestructible.


----------



## Ira Delphic

1clearhead said:


> I have the ES and the EDSE.
> 
> From what I can see the EDSE are smaller and a lot lighter and can easily be worn all day.....not like the ES which are a little heavy and bigger and the metal housing seems indestructible.


 
  
 OK good to know! I was just going by photos.


----------



## slowpickr

1clearhead said:


> I have the ES and the EDSE.
> 
> From what I can see the EDSE are smaller and a lot lighter and can easily be worn all day.....not like the ES which are a little heavy and bigger and the metal housing seems indestructible.


 
  
 The EDSE's are some of the best fitting IEMs I've ever had.  Basically, I just put them in and forget about them.  Don't have to adjust them after 30 minutes or so like some others I have.


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> The EDSE's are some of the best fitting IEMs I've ever had.  Basically, I just put them in and forget about them.  Don't have to adjust them after 30 minutes or so like some others I have.


+1

Plus the heavier metal housing is ideal with wearing them over the ear use. The build is incredible. Between the housing weight and the cable, it's darn near perfect IMHO.


----------



## altrunox

So, how can I know if he send me the LPS ou the LP? The cups are red, I guess it should be black, and the box says LP... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Anyway decent sound for the price, and excellent build quality.
 The cable is fantastic! ZERO cable noise with mine Superlux HD 681 Evo.
  
 Funny, I thought they were on-ear, althought I can use them over the ear without problem, of course is not as comfortable as my Superlux HD681 Evo, but it`s nice.


----------



## bhazard

If the headband is pure black and does not have blue stitching on it, you have the new LPS.
  
 The older LP is harder to drive and doesn't sound as good.


----------



## altrunox

bhazard said:


> If the headband is pure black and does not have blue stitching on it, you have the new LPS.
> 
> The older LP is harder to drive and doesn't sound as good.


 
Nice, it's all Black!
Very easy to drive, 20 on the Fiio X1 while my Superlux needs 30.
My impressions are the same as the ED and EDSE , build quality is fantastic for the price, sound is nice, not gigant killer, but really nice.


----------



## DynamikeB

After some KZ iem and tip rolling, I have to take back what I said before in terms of preferences for these:
  
 1 - KZ EDSE:  Easy to drive, great punch and balance, nice fit (and yes, over the ears is solid)
  
 2 - KZ DT3: More bassy but still a great sound.  A different sound and a bit less versatile, so I would put it just after EDSE in my list.
  
 3 - KZ ES:  Interesting sound, breathes more than the other two (more balanced)?, but indeed, the highs are aggressive.  Need to be tamed.  If you can live with the treble, they are as interesting as the other 2.
  
 4 - KZ GR:  I have the version with the holes.  It sounds ok, and the build quality is great (cable + solid frame), but I am not able to get a good fit, and the sound is below the other products.  For me.  I will sell these.
  
 I am looking into the ED3 now.  Judging if they would complement this collection... or if I lose my time and money.


----------



## B9Scrambler

My LPS and ANV arrived today. First impressions?
  
 LPS:
  
 + nice build and cables
 + smooth, punchy bass
 + mid recessed, but not overly so
 - right pad is a little small and doesn't quite fit fully. It also has a small burn mark in the fabric...
 ~ a wee bit too big for my head which was expected.
  
 ANV
 + nice build quality 
 + thick, durable feeling cable
 - Sound quality overall is just alright. Not horrible, not good, just o.k.
 ~ does it seem to anyone else that these were originally designed to be earbuds, and that making them an IEM was an afterthought? They are massive! lol.


----------



## altrunox

So, I don't remember if someone already answered, but, it the LPT different than the LPS? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If they do another sale on the LPS for under US$30 I may get another one to gift.
 I just would like that the headphone have a different design, it's too much V-Moda clone, they could be a little different.


----------



## B9Scrambler

altrunox said:


> So, I don't remember if someone already answered, but, it the LPT different than the LPS? :rolleyes:
> 
> If they do another sale on the LPS for under US$30 I may get another one to gift.
> I just would like that the headphone have a different design, it's too much V-Moda clone, they could be a little different.




When you are holding them, you won't care. They look and feel very nice. Definitely worth the 30 bucks for the build, case, and cables alone. That they also sound pretty good is a nice bonus.


----------



## altrunox

b9scrambler said:


> When you are holding them, you won't care. They look and feel very nice. Definitely worth the 30 bucks for the build, case, and cables alone. That they also sound pretty good is a nice bonus.


 
  
 Well, that is true, when I saw people saying, "Oh the build quality is great and blablabla", I thought, seriously, it's 30 bucks, shouldn't be that good, I was wrong...
 The cables are amazing, zero cable noise and so cheap!
  
 My only complain about the LPS is that the mic of one cable don't work, can't use it to answer calls


----------



## Ira Delphic

kz ed special edition ear style earphone with a microphone  
 So there is the "wheat" version with a mic? Do all EDSE have a mic? I don't need any more IEM's, especially low end,  but after the amazing experience with the DT3 I'll be getting the EDSE  soon!


----------



## B9Scrambler

ira delphic said:


> kz ed special edition ear style earphone with a microphone
> 
> 
> So there is the "wheat" version with a mic? Do all EDSE have a mic? I don't need any more IEM's, especially low end,  but after the amazing experience with the DT3 I'll be getting the EDSE  soon!:basshead:




Pretty sure the ED2 is the same as the EDSE, but with a mic. The EDSE does not have one. Definitely buy one...they are great


----------



## Ira Delphic

b9scrambler said:


> Pretty sure the ED2 is the same as the EDSE, but with a mic. The EDSE does not have one. Definitely buy one...they are great


 
  
 Thanks! Just an Aliexpress seller listing an EDSE incorrectly -  with ED2 specs and photo. I won't order that one.


----------



## B9Scrambler

So I decided to dispute the issue I am having with the right earpad; it was cut too small and doesn't fit the ear cup correctly so it falls off...plus it was burned. I did not bother mentioning to them that the volume up button on the cable with a mic does not work; I have two other compatible mic'd cables I can use instead if necessary.




http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GK-LPS-music-headphones-foldable-headset-computer-headset-high-end-mobile-computer-headset-comfortable-to-wear/2055043657.html (link to where I purchased them).

Their initial reply was to provide the cost of replacement pads and completely avoid addressing the issue. Given this is an unacceptable answer, I further explained the reasoning for my dispute and what the expected outcome is. Updates to follow. Hopefully they can remain a recommended seller in my eyes. 

*Update: After further discussion, they agreed there was an issue and are sending a replacement pad. If anyone else runs into issues with this seller, keep in mind there may be a slight language barrier if conversing in English. Once we got around that confusion, all was great. Will definitely purchase from them again.

- Scrambler


----------



## Kamakahah

Gave the LPS 200+ hours of burn in. 

Some quick note:
1. Cable for mobile use is bunk. Sound becomes severely degraded. Audio only cable is solid. 

2. Build seems nice. I wish the cups were slightly tilted to sit on the ears more flush. Certain angles work, however. 

3. Sound is about what I expected: overkill bass, recessed Mids, rolled off highs with a few peaks. 

4. A good deal overall as I can use the case for my Senngrado. 

5. Disassembly is quite easy. Tried a few mods with the cup vents to clean up the bass. It was mildly successful, but needs more trials. 

Here are a few pictures I took quickly during Disassembly. 







I forgot to take a picture of the outside shield removed, but there are only one set of vents on the bottom of the cup. The top set on the shield is just for style. 

Everything comes apart and goes back together easily. Just avoid stripping any screws with over tightening. 

Hopefully someone else is interested and comes up with a few tweaks. I'll continue playing around with a few ideas but have limited time.


----------



## altrunox

kamakahah said:


> 3. Sound is about what I expected: overkill bass, recessed Mids, rolled off highs with a few peaks.


 
  
 LOL, good description.
 I don`t know if it`s because they`re more comfortable, but found them to be on pair with my K518, with little less bass.
 If you reduce the bass, maybe the treble roll-off would be easier to hear?


----------



## bhazard

The LPS could make a great base set for some nice headphone mods. Only need a few brave and smart individuals to attempt some.
  
 aka, I won't tear up if I destroy a $26 headphone, and I'd still have the cables and case.


----------



## bakakuma

Hi guys, need some suggestion here
  
 I already have GR Spartacus with hole on the nozzle and it sounds awesome, looking for other KZ
 I'm currently looking for somewhat warm signature for Jazz like Coltrane, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Sinatra, Art Blakey and such (but emphasizing on woman vocals like Ella)
  
 thinking about buying R3 or DT3, what's your suggestion?


----------



## Ira Delphic

I'm sure Kamakahah knows, but for others, the mobile cable will give degraded sound when used with a PC. For my V-Moda XS the solution is to reverse the cable - mic closer to the PC. 
  
 Quote:


kamakahah said:


> Gave the LPS 200+ hours of burn in.
> 
> Some quick note:
> 1. Cable for mobile use is bunk. Sound becomes severely degraded. Audio only cable is solid...


----------



## bhazard

bakakuma said:


> Hi guys, need some suggestion here
> 
> I already have GR Spartacus with hole on the nozzle and it sounds awesome, looking for other KZ
> I'm currently looking for somewhat warm signature for Jazz like Coltrane, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Sinatra, Art Blakey and such (but emphasizing on woman vocals like Ella)
> ...


 
 DT3 or EDSE. I don't like the R3 much. It had a lot of potential but just doesn't sound very good.


----------



## Kamakahah

I probably should have mentioned it, but the thought of someone using the mobile cable on their computer actually never crossed my mind.


----------



## Ira Delphic

kamakahah said:


> I probably should have mentioned it, but the thought of someone using the mobile cable on their computer actually never crossed my mind.


 
  
 With the V-Moda XS only a "mobile cable" is included. I had to do a bit of searching to figure out that reversing the cable would solve the problem.


----------



## Kamakahah

ira delphic said:


> With the V-Moda XS only a "mobile cable" is included. I had to do a bit of searching to figure out that reversing the cable would solve the problem.




That's good information to know. I'm surprised they didn't include their audio only cable with that can.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Just ordered KZ ED Special Edition. For $6.86 from the Aliexpress store couldn't resist!


----------



## sunspot

Been lurking here a while... I'd like to thank everyone who participated in this thread.  I'd been looking for throwaways for a long time, given how flimsy my VSDS1's cable is.  Started to really dislike the Brainwavz M1 as being totally devoid of any kind of treble sparkle.
  
 Ordered the GR (not here yet, though it's the first I ordered, ED3, ES and EDSE.
  
 So far, I really prefer the ES.  The ED3 is decent but nothing special.  The EDSE is a bit clearer but for some reason it just doesn't do much for me (I should try again, I think it's partly because for some reason they don't fit in my ears all that well... something about the housing being smaller somehow makes it worse).  Got the GR and ED3 at 7$, the ES and EDSE (package deal at 13$ for both)
  
 But the ES I found very, very good for 7$.  Sibilant as heck, but well, the VSD1S is pretty sibilant too, so that never bugged me much.  The signature is right up my alley.  Isolation is pretty good for a semi-open, and it made commuting in the subway very tolerable.
  
 And the cable and housing quality is awesome.  Plus, the text on the box is just hilarious!  And on the housings--ES the ACME, that's really bizarre!
  
 Postman now knows me personally from having to sign all those small packages from China because, of course, they all got shipped separately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Again, thank you all for making this little-known brand somewhat better known.


----------



## BigGearHunter

sunspot said:


> Postman now knows me personally from having to sign all those small packages from China because, of course, they all got shipped separately
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha, ditto! He knows I'll give him a small tip and he takes care of the packages well for me.


----------



## sunspot

Finally got a better seal on the EDSE, with the VSonic GR07 stock tips of all things...
  
 I like them a lot better now.  Too tired to do a detailed comparison, but now I find them as engaging as the ES.  Now I have to figure out which I like best, but that's a good problem to have...


----------



## Ira Delphic

dynamikeb said:


> Ira Delphic, what tips do you use with the ES?
> 
> I find the ES and the SE to have a somewhat agressive treble up front, especially without any burn in (and/or brain adjustment), but after a little time, it gets better.  And I don't really use stock tips.   I am not sure I found the right tips yet for me vs ES and SE.  They are both really good iems for the price.  I find the cable superior on these than the DT3, for example, but imaging varies so much.  I find the ES breathes more (i wouldn't be able to put it in technical terms), and the SE to be more fun and in your face.  The best tips I used on them up to now are the ones that came with the Ostry KC06A, with a red filter (that seem to cut the treble a bit).  But I am not done with the tip rolling...


 
  
 Just the stock tips but I have some cheap Chinese foam tips on the way so will try those!


----------



## DynamikeB

I understand you.  My feelings have changed about these and switching between my few iems, I finally decided to part with my Kz ES.  I made a (girl) friend of mine very happy though.  Compared to her previous crappy earphones, she was in heaven.
 I kept, for now, the KZ ED as they are less sharp on the highs, and more fun overall.  They top my KZ trio now, just over the KZ DT3, and above the KZ GR.  I intend to sell my KZ GR (i have the one with the holes in the filter).  They are good, but I won't use them.
 I am waiting for new stuff soon.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I know I'm in the minority here, but I really like the ANV. 

Out of the box they sounded pretty meh. Bass was nice without being overpowering, mids more or less forward (cept upper...that's oddly recessed), and super grainy, harsh, artificial treble.

With some solid play time, large Sony silicone tips, and a chopped up shoelace filter (you read that right) to dull the treble, these things are great! They're tied up there with the Micro Ring for my fav KZ IEM....out of the three I have. EDse just sounds a bit off when a/bing them all.


----------



## Wokei

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





b9scrambler said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I really like the ANV.
> 
> Out of the box they sounded pretty meh. Bass was nice without being overpowering, mids more or less forward (cept upper...that's oddly recessed), and super grainy, harsh, artificial treble.
> 
> With some solid play time, large Sony silicone tips, and a chopped up shoelace filter (you read that right) to dull the treble, these things are great! They're tied up there with the Micro Ring for my fav KZ IEM....out of the three I have. EDse just sounds a bit off when a/bing them all.




You're not alone ...me like them tooooooo.......woot woot


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> You're not alone ...me like them tooooooo.......woot woot


 

 Yay! I'm not alone 

  
 I'm just been jumping between the ANV and LPS all week since getting them. I'm still in the 'honeymoon phase', but I don't see it ending anytime soon for the ANV. They just keep getting better and better. I tried them again with the stock tips which I was not a fan of before due to the peaky treble. Things seem to have settled down quite a bit. My filter 'mod' is still necessary, but I'm hoping additional play time will soften them up further.

  
 They're also the perfect size for my ears and are almost as comfy as the VSD3. They don't quite disappear, but its close enough.

  
 The best part? Left and Right printed in cursive. That's just pure class right there.


----------



## Wokei

Some like it...Some may not...the beauty of headfi ....preference in sound signature...


----------



## Endcode

I just got my ANV and I actually happen to really like it. Maybe it's signature isn't for everyone but I like it's technical performance, especially for it's price.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Endcode
 Yeah....its a pretty nice little piece. If you have some Sony Silicone tips try tossing those on with a small ball of fluff tucked inside. It really smooths out the treble (I find them to be pretty simblant) and doesn't mess with anything else.




@Wokei
 I'm going to have to retract my previous comments about the Huawei Honor  I've grown to like them quite a bit. I'm not sure if it's the new tips, lots of burn in, or what.....but they've certainly grown on me over the last couple months.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> @Endcode
> Yeah....its a pretty nice little piece. If you have some Sony Silicone tips try tossing those on with a small ball of fluff tucked inside. It really smooths out the treble (I find them to be pretty simblant) and doesn't mess with anything else.
> 
> 
> ...




It's all good....Honor works very well once you find the right tips and hit the sweet spot..woot woot


----------



## Ira Delphic

endcode said:


> I just got my ANV and I actually happen to really like it. Maybe it's signature isn't for everyone but I like it's technical performance, especially for it's price.


 
  
 With or without holes?


----------



## dbhai

Hello,
  
 I am brand new in here, and first thing first, I want to thank you all here for making this thread super informative, about both KZ and other IEMs, I am following this since last some time, and finally made my first KZ purchase - KZ EDSE
  
 waiting for it now - prior to this I have used Brainwavz Beta, Delta, SoundMagic PL30, PL11 and Sennheiser HD218 
  
 I might buy KZ LPS next, also KZ gr and KZ dt3 in consideration, looking forward to learn more


----------



## Wokei

dbhai...welcome to the KZ family


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> dbhai...welcome to the KZ family




This animated gif very much depicts the state of mind I am in most of the time.


----------



## BigGearHunter

Ever since I got my EDSE and ES just over a week ago, I am struggling to decide which one I like better. I am past the point of initial impressions and they both are incredible values, but just when I think "alright, the ES is more comfortable and the sound seems a bit better" I put on the EDSE and I'm greeted by its incredible sound. I can't even imagine what will happen once I get my other 5 pairs of KZ IEMs.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dbhai said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am brand new in here, and first thing first, I want to thank you all here for making this thread super informative, about both KZ and other IEMs, I am following this since last some time, and finally made my first KZ purchase - KZ EDSE
> 
> ...


 
  
 I suggest you stay away from the GR unless you are guaranteed they have the holes, which is unlikely.


----------



## Wokei

biggearhunter said:


> Ever since I got my EDSE and ES just over a week ago, I am struggling to decide which one I like better. I am past the point of initial impressions and they both are incredible values, but just when I think "alright, the ES is more comfortable and the sound seems a bit better" I put on the EDSE and I'm greeted by its incredible sound. I can't even imagine what will happen once I get my other 5 pairs of KZ IEMs.




Did you get the Micro Ring ?


----------



## EISENbricher

Whenever I search for KZ I get Tuna earphones in result. They look the same, but are they really?? I don't get this brand. Their product cost dirt cheap and people still praise 'em. Maybe I get 2-3 to gift to someone if they are really good as people claim. 
  
 But seriously, what is this Tuna?


----------



## bhazard

eisenbricher said:


> Whenever I search for KZ I get Tuna earphones in result. They look the same, but are they really?? I don't get this brand. Their product cost dirt cheap and people still praise 'em. Maybe I get 2-3 to gift to someone if they are really good as people claim.
> 
> But seriously, what is this Tuna?


 
 Just a rebranding of the name. Same earphones.


----------



## BigGearHunter

wokei said:


> Did you get the Micro Ring ?


 

 Yes, that's one of the 5 that should be coming in within the next couple of weeks. Why do you ask?


----------



## B9Scrambler

biggearhunter said:


> Yes, that's one of the 5 that should be coming in within the next couple of weeks. Why do you ask?




*whisper* The Micro Ring is awesome and not to be missed *end whisper*


----------



## BigGearHunter

b9scrambler said:


> *whisper* The Micro Ring is awesome and not to be missed *end whisper*


 

 Even more awesome than the ES and EDSE?


----------



## B9Scrambler

biggearhunter said:


> Even more awesome than the ES and EDSE? :eek:




To most ppl, probably not. I have the EDse (never tried the ES) and while I like them a lot, I enjoy both the Micro Ring and ANV (with my added filter) more.

The Micro Ring have such a nice expansive soundstage. Its addictive.


----------



## xtwargodtx

EDSE ARE IN VANCOUVER YUS! Should have them by tmr. I'm really enjoying the cogoo!! T02's right now (just got then yesterday). The bass is crazy on them.


----------



## EISENbricher

bhazard said:


> Just a rebranding of the name. Same earphones.


 
 Thanks for the confirmation, cheers.


----------



## dbhai

ira delphic said:


> I suggest you stay away from the GR unless you are guaranteed they have the holes, which is unlikely.


 
 yes I did read about the 'whole' hole thing, I thought of asking the seller before buying, let's see and still for others I can thing, 
  
 Micro rings are equally intriguing.


----------



## smy1

What are good aftermarket ear pieces for edse because I lost one of the stock one came with and in the edse but I lost one of them and I am using the spare ones but one is bigger then the other one and it feels wierd lol


----------



## ayao

Hello, new member/long-time lurker here!
I discovered KZ from this thread, and succumbed to the low prices.. I have the EDSE, ED2, ES, DT3 and GR  Unfortunately my GR didn't have holes in the tuning ports, and they sounded quite bad.

One thing I noticed (not sure if this has been mentioned before) is that while the ED2 and EDSE look exactly the same, my pairs were completely different soundwise. One of them was recessed in everything except for upper-mids in an unpleasant way, while the other one (presumably the EDSE) was much more balanced, definitely setting new standards for cheap earphones (both build quality and SQ.

I really like the DT3. It's very warm but doesn't have the recessed mids most low-end earphones suffer from. There is a surprising amount of sub-bass, considerably more than my 1964Ears V8 in quantity, but mid-bass is just as present if not more. There is a lot driver flex though, where minor fit adjustments would result in changes in sound. I guess this is the only thing that's preventing me from ordering five more DT3s


----------



## EISENbricher

Hello!
Can somebody please confirm whether this store is authentic? Prices so good!! 

http://m.aliexpress.com/getSellerInfo.htm?adminSeq=220865603&productId=1987244299


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Hello!
> Can somebody please confirm whether this store is authentic? Prices so good!!
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/getSellerInfo.htm?adminSeq=220865603&productId=1987244299




A lot of member from this thread have bought from this store ....no worries ...cheers


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> A lot of member from this thread have bought from this store ....no worries ...cheers


 
 Thanks!!
  
 I've pretty much read through this thread. Cheers to you and hisoundfi for long term follow up in this thread. You guys are awesome. On my way to order an EDSE : ) 
 lol another 'Coming Soon' added in my inventory (See my signature) xD
  
*EDIT: *Aw yeah, ordered EDSE for just $7, with *FREE EMS SHIPPING!!! * Wow, I mean, this is just awesome. How do they even do it lol


----------



## Wokei

EISENbricher

Welcome to KZ FAMILY...WOOT WOOT...u r doin well....muahahahahaha



Edited...the EMS in me buying experience with this store...does not apply....sorry to burst your bubble but they do arrive in about 3 weeks time...


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> @EISENbricher
> 
> Welcome to KZ FAMILY...WOOT WOOT...u r doin well....muahahahahaha
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the welcom, I'm humbled :3  and... nice gif lol
  
 Oho... that might be the catch. Well still I'm pretty content with this considering the prices they offer. As long as they offer a tracking number and I keep knowing status of my shipment's location, no worries.


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Thanks for the welcom, I'm humbled :3  and... nice gif lol
> 
> Oho... that might be the catch. Well still I'm pretty content with this considering the prices they offer. As long as they offer a tracking number and I keep knowing status of my shipment's location, no worries.




Pretty much for 7$...It's a steal...btw they do offer tracking number to me location...hope you will like them


----------



## Ira Delphic

Agreed. I know first hand that the sound quality of the DT3 is astounding for the price. I hope to comment on the ED Special Edition soon (hurry up China post)!
  
 I would love to see a blind listening test with KZ thrown in the mix for fun. I bet the results would be pretty interesting! Has this ever been attempted at a Head-Fi meetup - blind listening test?


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> Pretty much for 7$...It's a steal...btw they do offer tracking number to me location...hope you will like them


 
 Sure sure v__v
  


ira delphic said:


> Agreed. I know first hand that the sound quality of the DT3 is astounding for the price. I hope to comment on the ED Special Edition soon (hurry up China post)!
> 
> I would love to see a blind listening test with KZ thrown in the mix for fun. I bet the results would be pretty interesting! Has this ever been attempted at a Head-Fi meetup - blind listening test?


 
 I will totally consider a DT3 for myself soon! Will compare EDSE and DT3 to see which one suits me better and give away the other one to my Sister (mwahahah). My EDSE will be coming... soon? I have a doubt about DT3. I see that in the pics the 3.5 mm jack is a 4pin jack. I don't know why but my android phone always rejects to accept a 4-pin headset. I would have ordered a DT3 only if it was a 3-pin jack.
  
 What you say is totally possible xD Well of course because these KZs come so cheap. Everyone could simply collect all and try this blind test for fun.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Sure sure v__v
> 
> ... *I have a doubt about DT3. I see that in the pics the 3.5 mm jack is a 4pin jack*. I don't know why but my android phone always rejects to accept a 4-pin headset. I would have ordered a DT3 only if it was a 3-pin jack....


 
  
 The DT3 has 3 pin jack. I can post a pic if you'd like.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> The DT3 has 3 pin jack. I can post a pic if you'd like.


 
 That's great news. Oh.. and post a pic of one of earpiece as well : ) 
 Do these sets feel durable?


----------



## ndburley

I have received my ISK SEM 5's today and out of the box I have to say they trash my KZ XR and Limited edition KZ. That is just my opinion. Although they do give you 3m of cable! I did not like that.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Got my kz EDSE today gotta say I'm impressed. Has a nice sound stage really nice bass and mids highs are pretty good. Can anybody tell me what the red a blue rings are for?


----------



## Hisoundfi

xtwargodtx said:


> Got my kz EDSE today gotta say I'm impressed. Has a nice sound stage really nice bass and mids highs are pretty good. Can anybody tell me what the red a blue rings are for?


 
 Red = right ear
 Blue = left ear


----------



## xtwargodtx

One side note should I wear the EDSE's straight down or over the ear.


----------



## Wokei

xtwargodtx said:


> One side note should I wear the EDSE's straight down or over the ear.




Me wear them down..cheers


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> Me wear them down..cheers



 
+1 ....me too


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> Red = right ear
> Blue = left ear




Thanks for mentioning that. I've always worn them that way, but had no idea if it was correct or not, lol.


----------



## smelly

I just checked out kz earphone official flagship store and it looks like they have some cool coupons on the seller store page.  $4 off of $30 looks the sweetest.  However, I'm having a hard time getting the discount applied to my cart. Is there a special way to get them applied to the cart?  I'm signed in, but it doesn't work. 
  
 BTW, DT5 is only $10 right now!


----------



## EISENbricher

smelly said:


> I just checked out kz earphone official flagship store and it looks like they have some cool coupons on the seller store page.  $4 off of $30 looks the sweetest.  However, I'm having a hard time getting the discount applied to my cart. Is there a special way to get them applied to the cart?  I'm signed in, but it doesn't work.
> 
> BTW, DT5 is only $10 right now!


 
 Dunno much about DT5, even this thread didn't provide much data for comparison. DT3 on the other hand had been praised by many and that too is available for cheap now.
  
 I think this is their year end sale (It's mentioned somewhere on their store page) so better grab KZs before end of this month : D


----------



## EISENbricher

Wokei senpai help me, I've been infected with Shopping disease Q_Q 
 Couldn't stop myself from ordering a pair of Havi B3 Pro I 
 Is there any cure?? lol


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Wokei senpai help me, I've been infected with Shopping disease Q_Q
> Couldn't stop myself from ordering a pair of Havi B3 Pro I
> Is there any cure?? lol




This phase you are going thru...is a rite of passage for true blue audio warrior...me advice to you....now that you caught the KZ bug...take a break...give them some time...listen to them.....your ears is the best judge...find out which sound signature you prefer...and move on from there...

HaviB3Pro1OldVersion would be the perfect start...imho you could also look at Vivo EX800,Ttpod T1E and me current fav Huawei Honor

Cure...muahahahahaha


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> This phase you are going thru...is a rite of passage for true blue audio warrior...me advice to you....now that you caught the KZ bug...take a break...give them some time...listen to them.....your ears is the best judge...find out which sound signature you prefer...and move on from there...
> 
> HaviB3Pro1OldVersion would be the perfect start...imho you could also look at Vivo EX800,Ttpod T1E and me current fav Huawei Honor
> 
> Cure...muahahahahaha


 
 lel I'd keep that in mind and not order anything in next 6 months. I agree about Havi's.... so much hype train running wild!  My TTPOD T1Es are on the way *smirk* see my sig. My unboxing mania shall continue over next few weeks hehe.
  
 Huawei Honor is a phone not an earphone?


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> lel I'd keep that in mind and not order anything in next 6 months. I agree about Havi's.... so much hype train running wild!  My TTPOD T1Es are on the way *smirk* see my sig. My unboxing mania shall continue over next few weeks hehe.
> 
> Huawei Honor is a phone not an earphone?




My bad...the earphone that comes with that phone...can be bought at aliexpress


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> That's great news. Oh.. and post a pic of one of earpiece as well : )
> Do these sets feel durable?


 
  
 Here you go...the DT3!


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Here you go...the DT3!


 
 Wow! *hi 5*
 Those earpieces.. is that metal, or plastic?


----------



## peter123

eisenbricher said:


> Wow! *hi 5*
> Those earpieces.. is that metal, or plastic?




It's plastic.....


----------



## Ira Delphic

Plastic. Looks like metal. These are very light weight - which I think is a plus.


----------



## EISENbricher

I see.. not a bad thing though... Would prefer light weight and comfort of plastic over metal earpiece any day. It's not like it's going to break, that case is VERY rare.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Well I pulled the trigger on the KZ DT5 Pole Edtion really hoping they are better than the EDSE I just got. The EDSE are really good loving the sound of them listening to R&B. being 14 and spending another $10 on headphones seems like a lot of money to me but I really want to see the KZ DT5's the EDSE just have such a good first impression on me. Well hope they come before Christmas it is shipping with e-ems fingers crossed. Ill try to get first impressions out asap


----------



## EISENbricher

xtwargodtx said:


> Well I pulled the trigger on the KZ DT5 Pole Edtion really hoping they are better than the EDSE I just got. The EDSE are really good loving the sound of them listening to R&B. being 14 and spending another $10 on headphones seems like a lot of money to me but I really want to see the KZ DT5's the EDSE just have such a good first impression on me. Well hope they come before Christmas it is shipping with e-ems fingers crossed. Ill try to get first impressions out asap


 
 How much burn in period on your EDSE atm? 
 Let us know the comparison and impressions when you receive DT5. 
  
 Also, if you have ordered this via KZ Official Flagship store and selected EMS option then sorry to burst your bubble, they use only the famous 'China Airmail'. Has happened to other members, as well as me.


----------



## HraD2




----------



## B9Scrambler

mmmm...and what is that HraD2?


----------



## Shawn71

KZ gk earphones inside the treasure........


----------



## HraD2

shawn71 said:


> KZ gk earphones inside the treasure........


 
 Bingo! )))


----------



## B9Scrambler

And I suspect images of what is inside are to follow?


----------



## EISENbricher

Yes pls send those!


----------



## xtwargodtx

I'm at a





eisenbricher said:


> How much burn in period on your EDSE atm?
> Let us know the comparison and impressions when you receive DT5.
> 
> Also, if you have ordered this via KZ Official Flagship store and selected EMS option then sorry to burst your bubble, they use only the famous 'China Airmail'. Has happened to other members, as well as me.
> [/quote I'm at about 20 hours atm


----------



## xtwargodtx

Negotiated with the seller today because ems was free for shipping but he said he providing china post instead. Convinced him to use ems hopefully it happens.


----------



## EISENbricher

xtwargodtx said:


> Negotiated with the seller today because ems was free for shipping but he said he providing china post instead. Convinced him to use ems hopefully it happens.


Great. Let us know if he actually ships via EMS. Would bargain the hell outta him next time xD


----------



## 1clearhead

hrad2 said:


>


 
  
 My second order of KZ-EDSE came in this same wooden type box.
  
 .....I guess they're stepping-up in there game.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Has anyone tried the KZ/GK DS?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HiFi-Quality-JEECOO-GK-DS-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Earbuds-Style-Headphone-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-for/2033209998.html
  
 I would give them a whirl at 3.99 US, but I'm in the middle of moving so it's a bit too chaotic atm to worry about packages coming in.


----------



## Leo888

1clearhead said:


> My second order of KZ-EDSE came in this same wooden type box.
> 
> .....I guess they're stepping-up in there game.




Which buyer did you buy from @1clearhead. Thanks.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Well if anyone was wondering the guy shipped out my package with Hong Kong post registered air mail instead of ems I asked him why he said "it was too expensive" .-.


----------



## EISENbricher

xtwargodtx said:


> Well if anyone was wondering the guy shipped out my package with Hong Kong post registered air mail instead of ems I asked him why he said "it was too expensive" .-.


 
 lmao what an answer xD They why put the EMS option there in first place!?


----------



## xtwargodtx

eisenbricher said:


> lmao what an answer xD They why put the EMS option there in first place!?



I have no idea lol it's like a ton if options for free but he just uses Hong kong post. Hopefully it comes before Christmas


----------



## dwayniac

I have been eyeing the KZ Professional. Does anyone have first hand experience with it?


----------



## dbhai

xtwargodtx said:


> I have no idea lol it's like a ton if options for free but he just uses Hong kong post. Hopefully it comes before Christmas


 
 I remember mp4nation uses Hong Kong post, they are really slow, at least to reach to India, my KZ EDSE shipped via China post, let's see how fast they are


----------



## EISENbricher

dbhai said:


> I remember mp4nation uses Hong Kong post, they are really slow, at least to reach to India, my KZ EDSE shipped via China post, let's see how fast they are


yo my edse is also on its way to India. Nice to see indian here


----------



## dbhai

eisenbricher said:


> yo my edse is also on its way to India. Nice to see indian here


 
 yes likewise, eagerly waiting for them, my first kz this one  hoping it to be here next week or so


----------



## EISENbricher

dbhai said:


> yes likewise, eagerly waiting for them, my first kz this one  hoping it to be here next week or so


 
 I'm waiting for.... quite a bunch or stuff (See my signature area). 
 India post is dead slow : ( 
  
 btw hopefully you're using 17track.net to track. Just came to know that site a few days ago. They show much more extensive data regarding the shipment. I was blaming China post for delay but turned out that india post is the one at fault : /


----------



## slowpickr

My KZ purchases are over for the time being.  I got rid of the ANV and GR (without vent holes).  I found the EDSE to be the best by far and I'm quite happy with it.


----------



## EISENbricher

I don't even find it viable to order anything other except EDSE and DT3 (considering my taste) after going through this thread . GR and ANV look so nice but both cursed by bad SQ 
  
 Maybe I'd have ordered a micro-ring.. it looked so interesting. But KZ official doesn't sell it and other sell at increased price.


----------



## 1clearhead

leo888 said:


> Which buyer did you buy from @1clearhead. Thanks.


 
  
 The second set of KZ-EDSE I ordered which came with the wooden box came from this taobao website.....
http://tw.taobao.com/item/41972755500.htm?spm=a1z3o.7406521.0.0.w9sFNj


----------



## Ira Delphic

1clearhead said:


> The second set of KZ-EDSE I ordered which came with the wooden box came from this taobao website.....
> http://tw.taobao.com/item/41972755500.htm?spm=a1z3o.7406521.0.0.w9sFNj


 
  
 I found this - for English language ordering on Taobao!
 http://www.engtaobao.com/guide/view/taobao-in-english.html#.VIhmQzHF8n4
  
 But it doesn't work


----------



## Leo888

1clearhead said:


> The second set of KZ-EDSE I ordered which came with the wooden box came from this taobao website.....
> http://tw.taobao.com/item/41972755500.htm?spm=a1z3o.7406521.0.0.w9sFNj




Thanks a lot @1clearhead . Would have ordered here if I know that those I ordered came with zip lock bag in a small paper boxes. There's no indication of the model so I have to open up all of them to check and ends up destroying the boxes. End up buying 10 hard cases for them as these are meant as gifts and want them to look presentable. 

Thanks again.


----------



## mebaali

It's been nearly a month and my KZ LPS is still at Beijing customs :/
  
 Have asked the seller to extend buyer protection twice already in the last 3 weeks


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> It's been nearly a month and my KZ LPS is still at Beijing customs :/
> 
> Have asked the seller to extend buyer protection twice already in the last 3 weeks :


 
 My shipment is also stuck at beijing since Nov 21st. Still no change in status :/


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> My shipment is also stuck at beijing since Nov 21st. Still no change in status :/


 
  
 That is not good. It may be time  for a refund.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I've have two products from two different sellers that left the country on Nov 22 and 24. No change in status since then. I don't think it takes 20+ days to fly to Canada, lol.


----------



## Etzer

How long have you guys waited on an order from the Aliexpress KZ store to the U.S.? The tracking info has said "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment" since the 26th. It's never taken more than 12 days for me to receive something from China so I'm curious as to how long others have waited.


----------



## peter123

4-5 weeks shipping from China is not uncommon around Christmas time so be patient guys 

And yes, I usually get my stuff in about two weeks normally.


----------



## EISENbricher

peter123 said:


> 4-5 weeks shipping from China is not uncommon around Christmas time so be patient guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I feel kinda relieved... a bit only though. 
 This might be the reason.


----------



## 1clearhead

ira delphic said:


> I found this - for English language ordering on Taobao!
> http://www.engtaobao.com/guide/view/taobao-in-english.html#.VIhmQzHF8n4
> 
> But it doesn't work


 
  
 Have you tried TMALL?....Never ordered from there, but you might get lucky.
http://www.tmall.com/
  


leo888 said:


> Thanks a lot @1clearhead . Would have ordered here if I know that those I ordered came with zip lock bag in a small paper boxes. There's no indication of the model so I have to open up all of them to check and ends up destroying the boxes. End up buying 10 hard cases for them as these are meant as gifts and want them to look presentable.
> 
> Thanks again.


 
  
 I end up buying small compact cases for them anyway, the wooden box does seem to have its weaknesses.


----------



## smy1

Is the 1 month wait for the dt3 worth it because my stuck in the airport for the past month nothing has changed

Also how is the ed3 compare to the dt3 and ed3


----------



## Shawn71

mebaali said:


> It's been nearly a month and my KZ LPS is still at Beijing customs :/
> 
> Have asked the seller to extend buyer protection twice already in the last 3 weeks







eisenbricher said:


> My shipment is also stuck at beijing since Nov 21st. Still no change in status :/




What do you guys actually see in the "status" & "location" tabs? If your items posted with china post......


----------



## mebaali

shawn71 said:


> What do you guys actually see in the "status" & "location" tabs? If your items posted with china post......


 

 This is what I am seeing in my status (BTW, I've placed my order on 23rd October 2014)
  

10/30/2014 10:44:00 AMCHINA518103Receive item from customer (Otb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/22/2014 10:13:00 AMCHINABEIJINGInsert item into bag (Otb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/23/2014 8:01:00 AMCHINABEIJINGSend item abroad (EDI-received)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/23/2014 11:01:00 PMCHINABEIJINGSend item abroad (EDI-received)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE


----------



## Shawn71

mebaali said:


> This is what I am seeing in my status (BTW, I've placed my order on 23rd October 2014)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well,looks like either the pkt is still waiting at the airport queued to pickup and sent to flight or its reached the port of entry and still waiting for the customs (inbound) guys for inspection and release from the warehouse,eventually only then you might see the updated status......


----------



## Shawn71

We cant still say its in transit looking at the timelines there,so obviously its still in country of origin or at destination customs......but dont lose your patience and you need to wait.....just keep trying extend the time with seller....who knows may be all of a sudden you might see it past the customs and at local sorting office.....one fine morning this week......


----------



## EISENbricher

shawn71 said:


> What do you guys actually see in the "status" & "location" tabs? If your items posted with china post......


 
  
 2014-11-21 09:58
 CHINA, 361024, Receive item from customer (Otb), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
 2014-11-25 16:13
 CHINA, BEIJING, Insert item into bag (Otb), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
 2014-11-26 08:02
 CHINA, BEIJING, Send item abroad (EDI-received), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE


----------



## dbhai

well and I had ordered on 5th December so after seeing these statuses, I am to stop checking the tracking details now 
  
 Though it shows similar to what you guys shared but now I dont know how long I will have to wait 
  
 2014-12-09 08:01 CHINA, BEIJING, Send item abroad (EDI-received), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
 2014-12-08 15:13 CHINA, BEIJING, Insert item into bag (Otb), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
 2014-12-05 13:03 CHINA, 215465, Receive item from customer (Otb), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE


----------



## Shawn71

eisenbricher said:


> 2014-11-21 09:58
> CHINA, 361024, Receive item from customer (Otb), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
> 2014-11-25 16:13
> CHINA, BEIJING, Insert item into bag (Otb), Air, KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
> ...




According to the last line/update the pkt cleared the customs (outbound/country of origin) with green and might be still waiting for pickup into flight or left the country and reached the destination country already and waiting for the customs clearance (inbound)......


----------



## EISENbricher

shawn71 said:


> According to the last line/update the pkt cleared the customs (outbound/country of origin) with green and might be still waiting for pickup into flight or left the country and reached the destination country already and waiting for the customs clearance (inbound)......


 
 So at least is it cleat that I'll eventually receive my parcel? I mean it's not in any kind of danger right?
  


dbhai said:


> well and I had ordered on 5th December so after seeing these statuses, I am to stop checking the tracking details now
> 
> Though it shows similar to what you guys shared but now I dont know how long I will have to wait
> 
> ...


 
 This stupid KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE


----------



## Shawn71

eisenbricher said:


> So at least is it cleat that I'll eventually receive my parcel? I mean it's not in any kind of danger right?
> 
> This stupid KOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE




Well mostly wont be lost for any pkts for that matter..... but there are some exceptional cases of that nature too......and as long as we have the tracking # we are safe and even then if its untraceable/lost at some point we can extend the time (purchase protection) with the seller and then open the dispute if needed be (may be some sellers might not be co-operative), and we are entitled to get a refund if the pkt not delivered after the max time allowed and seller mutually agreed to do so......


----------



## EISENbricher

shawn71 said:


> Well mostly wont be lost for any pkts for that matter.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the info. I feel relieved.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Anyone have the kz dt5 pole editions yet?


----------



## Shawn71

dbhai said:


> well and I had ordered on 5th December so after seeing these statuses, I am to stop checking the tracking details now
> 
> Though it shows similar to what you guys shared but now I dont know how long I will have to wait
> 
> ...




Looks like you are so lucky to be able to see as "send item abroad"  already within just 4 days of receive status,against other 2 pkts from mebaali and eisen......


----------



## xtwargodtx

symphonyx7 said:


> The humble $9 KZ ED Special Edition would mercilessly crush the CX300-ii in every criteria. You can only imagine what sets that cost over $30 in Chinese budget-fi land will offer, although diminishing returns still apply. For instance, the $36 TTPod T1E doesn't sound twice as good as the KZ ED Special Edition. In some instances, people even liked my EDSE with my custom EQ settings better than the T1E, also with custom EQ settings (although honestly I'm still figuring out which settings maximize the T1E while my EDSE can easily use my SHE3580's EQ settings and immediately sound like a beast due to their similarities).


Mind sharing your eq settings?


----------



## xtwargodtx

I'm not too sure if it's just me but after brining in the KZ EDSE the soundstage seems more airy has anyone experienced this?


----------



## Hisoundfi

xtwargodtx said:


> I'm not too sure if it's just me but after brining in the KZ EDSE the soundstage seems more airy has anyone experienced this?


+1


----------



## xtwargodtx

hisoundfi said:


> +1


 So I'm not crazy wooo


----------



## 1clearhead

xtwargodtx said:


> I'm not too sure if it's just me but after brining in the KZ EDSE the soundstage seems more airy has anyone experienced this?


 
  
 Just the right amount of airy soundstage = a life-like experience.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Just the right amount of airy soundstage = a life-like experience.




If you haven't already, be sure to try the Micro Ring. Much more spacious sounding than the EDse IMO.


----------



## xtwargodtx

I'm waiting on my kz dt5 pole editions really hopping they actually are dual dynamic. I only paid $10 for them too.


----------



## BigGearHunter

I keep trying to go back to the EDSE, but it turns out that the ES has been my personal champion after all.


----------



## EISENbricher

xtwargodtx said:


> I'm waiting on my kz dt5 pole editions really hopping they actually are dual dynamic. I only paid $10 for them too.



But... how will you know? Are you going to dissect those?


----------



## xtwargodtx

eisenbricher said:


> But... how will you know? Are you going to dissect those?


 Not quite sure yet lol but i need to figure it out somehow


----------



## EISENbricher

Just reading through the specifications/features provided under KZ's products kills my brain cells :/   Oh god that English Q__Q


Spoiler: Warning: Kills Brain Cells!



http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Ear-Headphones-kz-ed-Special-Edition-low-microphone-volume-sales/1380688_2040486474.htm


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Just reading through the specifications/features provided under KZ's products kills my brain cells :/   Oh god that English Q__Q
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Kills Brain Cells!
> ...


----------



## mebaali

biggearhunter said:


> I keep trying to go back to the EDSE, but it turns out that the ES has been my personal champion after all.


 

 You are not alone, same feelings here (have tried to like EDSE over ES but it just didn't happen even after so many hours of burn-in for me)


----------



## BigGearHunter

mebaali said:


> You are not alone, same feelings here (have tried to like EDSE over ES but it just didn't happen even after so many hours of burn-in for me)


 
 That's good to know, don't get me wrong, the EDSE is a fantastic set, but the ES is just so freaking good.


----------



## Ira Delphic

biggearhunter said:


> That's good to know, don't get me wrong, the EDSE is a fantastic set, but the ES is just so freaking good.


 
  
 I don't have the EDSE yet, but my DT3 (considered on same level as EDSE by many here) are vastly superior to my ES. Maybe my ES is a dud? The high end - treble of the ES is shrill and plastic sounding. The DT3 on the other hand have a natural sound. A plucked guitar string sounds like it should, _unlike my copy of the ES_. So YMMV!


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> I don't have the EDSE yet, but my DT3 (considered on same level as EDSE by many here) are vastly superior to my ES. Maybe my ES is a dud? The high end - treble of the ES is shrill and plastic sounding. The DT3 on the other hand have a natural sound. A plucked guitar string sounds like it should, _unlike my copy of the ES_. So YMMV!


hmm different opinion from different people... I wonder if just a matter of personal taste or some kind of inconsistency in manufacturing of ES..


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> hmm different opinion from different people... I wonder if just a matter of personal taste or some kind of inconsistency in manufacturing of ES..


 
  
 I think a quality control issue. My particular ES don't cut it.


----------



## goa604

Ordered KZ EDSE 2 days ago, just ordered KZ R3. 
 Im planning on ordering KZ GK-CM9 and KZ ED1 in week of time. 
 If you feel CM9 or ED1 are a huge mistake to buy please let me know. Im more interested in having a few pleasing headphones and switch them around than one killer iem . 
 I mean KZ GK-CM9 has a 14mm driver?? ED1 i loove how they look just like i adore the looks of r3+ those hot detachable cables and for 12$??
 Ill buy AWEI ES900i as well but thats for another topic.


----------



## EISENbricher

goa604 said:


> Ordered KZ EDSE 2 days ago, just ordered KZ R3.
> Im planning on ordering KZ GK-CM9 and KZ ED1 in week of time.
> If you feel CM9 or ED1 are a huge mistake to buy please let me know. Im more interested in having a few pleasing headphones and switch them around than one killer iem .
> I mean KZ GK-CM9 has a 14mm driver?? ED1 i loove how they look just like i adore the looks of r3+ those hot detachable cables and for 12$??
> Ill buy AWEI ES900i as well but thats for another topic.


 
 You shall be thread's new guinea pig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Get 'em all and convey your thoughts!


----------



## smy1

goa604 said:


> Ordered KZ EDSE 2 days ago, just ordered KZ R3.
> Im planning on ordering KZ GK-CM9 and KZ ED1 in week of time.
> If you feel CM9 or ED1 are a huge mistake to buy please let me know. Im more interested in having a few pleasing headphones and switch them around than one killer iem .
> I mean KZ GK-CM9 has a 14mm driver?? ED1 i loove how they look just like i adore the looks of r3+ those hot detachable cables and for 12$??
> ...





goa604 said:


> Ordered KZ EDSE 2 days ago, just ordered KZ R3.
> Im planning on ordering KZ GK-CM9 and KZ ED1 in week of time.
> If you feel CM9 or ED1 are a huge mistake to buy please let me know. Im more interested in having a few pleasing headphones and switch them around than one killer iem .
> I mean KZ GK-CM9 has a 14mm driver?? ED1 i loove how they look just like i adore the looks of r3+ those hot detachable cables and for 12$??
> ...




Cm9 is just terrible imo


----------



## xtwargodtx

goa604 said:


> Ordered KZ EDSE 2 days ago, just ordered KZ R3.
> Im planning on ordering KZ GK-CM9 and KZ ED1 in week of time.
> If you feel CM9 or ED1 are a huge mistake to buy please let me know. Im more interested in having a few pleasing headphones and switch them around than one killer iem .
> I mean KZ GK-CM9 has a 14mm driver?? ED1 i loove how they look just like i adore the looks of r3+ those hot detachable cables and for 12$??
> ...


get the kz dt5 pole editions while your at it then we can discuss. There about $9.80 for dual dynamic


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> I don't have the EDSE yet, but my DT3 (considered on same level as EDSE by many here) are vastly superior to my ES. Maybe my ES is a dud? The high end - treble of the ES is shrill and plastic sounding. The DT3 on the other hand have a natural sound. A plucked guitar string sounds like it should, _unlike my copy of the ES_. So YMMV!


 
 The DT3 has better treble presentation (honestly some of the best I've heard) than the KZEDSE IMHO. However, the midrange on the KZEDSE is spectacular, and they are relatively warm and pretty balanced from what I hear.
  
 It will come down to signature preference. I agree with you on the ES. The treble on the ES is just overdone and harsh to my ears. To be honest, the KZEDSE treble is along the lines of the ES, but tamed enough to be tolerable. I LOVE listening to my KZEDSE at low volumes for some reason. They isolate pretty well and sound great at lower volumes (high volumes do also but I could imagine the treble becoming fatiguing with them cranked up).


----------



## Wokei

KZ army still marching strong...



Hisoundfi...have a good Xmas and to those celebrating the coming holiday


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> KZ army still marching strong...
> 
> 
> 
> Hisoundfi...have a good Xmas and to those celebrating the coming holiday


Same to you bro. Love you man! #bromance


----------



## xtwargodtx

hisoundfi said:


> Same to you bro. Love you man! #bromance


 #GenderEquality when's the wedding guise LOOL


----------



## goa604

eisenbricher said:


> You shall be thread's new guinea pig
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeee i cant wait!
  
 I heard KZ ANV were kinda ****ty but didnt think cm9 were also. It doesnt matter im more interested in having something different from other iems im buying because im sure i will be pleased with edse and ill enjoy trying to find best from cm9. 
 Only buy i regret for now is AWEI 800 something


----------



## Shawn71

xtwargodtx said:


> get the kz dt5 pole editions while your at it then we can discuss. There about $9.80 for dual dynamic




Thats a hard to resist price for a dual dynamic....but is there a mentioning somewhere,what the 2 driver sizes are? I tried couple of sellers from AE but cldnt find it......


----------



## xtwargodtx

I'm not entirely sure either but I ordered them last week and they got shipped out Monday 





shawn71 said:


> Thats a hard to resist price for a dual dynamic....but is there a mentioning somewhere,what the 2 driver sizes are? I tried couple of sellers from AE but cldnt find it......


----------



## Shawn71

xtwargodtx said:


> I'm not entirely sure either but I ordered them last week and they got shipped out Monday




K.......pls post a picture of the tech spec portion fom the box,when you get them.....may be me some of our chinese friends here will be able to translate them even if its printed in chinese..... take a snap of the paper print if you dont find it on the cardboard box.....


----------



## xtwargodtx

Yeah no problems. I can also translate them for you cause yenno I'm a 14 year old Chinese guy lel :3 





shawn71 said:


> K.......pls post a picture of the tech spec portion fom the box,when you get them.....may be me some of our chinese friends here will be able to translate them even if its printed in chinese..... take a snap of the paper print if you dont find it on the cardboard box.....


----------



## EISENbricher

xtwargodtx said:


> Yeah no problems. I can also translate them for you cause yenno I'm a 14 year old Chinese guy lel :3



You live in China? I wish I could... So that wouldn't have had to wait weeks for my ordered stuff xD


----------



## xtwargodtx

No sadly not i still have to wait for my fair share of 2-3 week shipping time from china lol. My mom enrolled me in Chinese school when I was 3 so that's why I know how to read, write, and speak it. :3 if your wondering I hail from Vancouver B.C canada 





eisenbricher said:


> You live in China? I wish I could... So that wouldn't have had to wait weeks for my ordered stuff xD


----------



## Shawn71

xtwargodtx said:


> No sadly not i still have to wait for my fair share of 2-3 week shipping time from china lol. My mom enrolled me in Chinese school when I was 3 so that's why I know how to read, write, and speak it. :3 if your wondering I hail from Vancouver B.C canada




So why wait until you get the iem? Just search/ post in chinese forums and find out.... the quickest and easiest way,I wld say......Im talkin abt finding dual driver info.....


----------



## xtwargodtx

Yeah I've tried but come up with nothing small company's like KZ seem to be bad at releasing all the info 





shawn71 said:


> So why wait until you get the iem? Just search/ post in chinese forums and find out.... the quickest and easiest way,I wld say......Im talkin abt finding dual driver info.....


----------



## EISENbricher

xtwargodtx said:


> No sadly not i still have to wait for my fair share of 2-3 week shipping time from china lol. My mom enrolled me in Chinese school when I was 3 so that's why I know how to read, write, and speak it. :3 if your wondering I hail from Vancouver B.C canada


lol ok I get the scenario


----------



## goa604

Anyone has any comments about CM9?


----------



## Shawn71

mebaali said:


> This is what I am seeing in my status (BTW, I've placed my order on 23rd October 2014)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Did you check yours? I cld see a smiling face now......


----------



## mebaali

10/30/2014 10:44:00 AMCHINA518103Receive item from customer (Otb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/22/2014 10:13:00 AMCHINABEIJINGInsert item into bag (Otb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/23/2014 8:01:00 AMCHINABEIJINGSend item abroad (EDI-received)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/23/2014 11:01:00 PMCHINABEIJINGSend item abroad (EDI-received)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  12/13/2014 5:51:24 PMINDIAKOLKATA FOREIGN LCAOReceive item at office of exchange (Inb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
  
  
@Shawn71 - At last, my package has reached the Indian shores  ( now the long wait starts from Indian Customs office  )


----------



## smy1

xtwargodtx said:


> get the kz dt5 pole editions while your at it then we can discuss. There about $9.80 for dual dynamic




What's dual dynamic and how do they compare to the dt3 edse and es


----------



## smy1

goa604 said:


> Anyone has any comments about CM9?




I have it. It's Just terrible imo only thing good is the bass

Save ur money


----------



## bhazard

The Pole Tone isn't bad so far. Too much bass as usual, but it works well on EDM.
  
 The wooden box they come in is fantastic. I'm keeping it.


----------



## goa604

smy1 said:


> I have it. It's Just terrible imo only thing good is the bass
> 
> Save ur money


okay thank you. I was kinda exited to have one of thise huge driver iems but alright. I will save my money for pole tone. A bit off topic but is there any other cheap iem with good sound and huge driver? Thanks


----------



## anduril

Quote:


goa604 said:


> A bit off topic but is there any other cheap iem with good sound and huge driver? Thanks


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/580769/the-monoprice-mp9927-pg-208-mp8320-mep-933-the-7-11-club
 I'm happy with those. Except maybe quite hard to make them fit comfortably.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goa604 said:


> okay thank you. I was kinda exited to have one of thise huge driver iems but alright. I will save my money for pole tone. A bit off topic but is there any other cheap iem with good sound and huge driver? Thanks




Don't rule out the ANV....its not a bad iem at all. Definitely not what I was expecting based on this threads feedback on them. Out of the box...yeah...they are a bit underwhelming. A swap to small bore Sony silicone tips and a touch of fabric added as a filter and they are awesome. Tames the treble and cleans their sound right up.

I still like the Micro Ring more, but the ANV is no slouch. Plus, I like it more than the EDse (I'm def in the minority on that one lol).


----------



## BigGearHunter

b9scrambler said:


> Don't rule out the ANV....its not a bad iem at all. Definitely not what I was expecting based on this threads feedback on them. Out of the box...yeah...they are a bit underwhelming. A swap to small bore Sony silicone tips and a touch of fabric added as a filter and they are awesome. Tames the treble and cleans their sound right up.
> 
> I still like the Micro Ring more, but the ANV is no slouch. Plus, I like it more than the EDse (I'm def in the minority on that one lol).


 

 Sir, I do not appreciate you and others hyping the Micro Ring so much. It makes my waiting for it to arrive all that much harder


----------



## slim311

Just got my LP-S today that I ordered on 11/11 sale. I didn't get a box with mine, just the headphones and cables inside the case. So far, really enjoying the sound of them, especially for the price. Do these change any with time? Even if they don't, heck, the case and the extra cables I ordered were almost worth the 38 bucks. Time to try out some EDSE and ES. Thanks to everyone in this thread!


----------



## 1clearhead

I say the KZ-EDSE are epic for there price. The only beef I had with my KZ-ES is that I had to switch to "Sidy foam tips" in order to tame the splashy highs and the thick bass and smooth their overall signature. After this little switch-over on tips, now I can say I like them just as much as the EDSE.


----------



## Wokei

biggearhunter said:


> Sir, I do not appreciate you and others hyping the Micro Ring so much. It makes my waiting for it to arrive all that much harder




Micro Ring GOOOOOOOOOOOD...muahahahahaha



Just passin' thru...dont mind me


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> Micro Ring GOOOOOOOOOOOD...muahahahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> Just passin' thru...dont mind me


 
  
 I know, I know.....I got to put these in Santa's list.


----------



## anduril

So guys, has anyone compared ED2 to EDSE? I wouldn't want to trade a lot of SQ just for the microphone...
  
 EDIT: Another thing - are there any owners of both MEP-933 (8320) and EDSE? AFAIR they both sound quite neutral... is one clearly better than the other?


----------



## B9Scrambler

anduril said:


> So guys, has anyone compared ED2 to EDSE? I wouldn't want to trade a lot of SQ just for the microphone...
> 
> EDIT: Another thing - are there any owners of both MEP-933 (8320) and EDSE? AFAIR they both sound quite neutral... is one clearly better than the other?




The Monoprice iare more neutral and smoother in the treble. On the other hand, I like the EDse wayyy more. Better fit, build quality, they're more engaging, deeper bass, etc. etc. etc. No comparison really...


----------



## anduril

Thanks!
 In this case as I love my 933 I will definitely try EDSE. Or mic'd ED2 if I get any tips on their worth.


----------



## B9Scrambler

From what I've been told (since I inquired about the same thing a while back) , the ED2 and se are identical, except for the mic. Had I know that I would have picked up the ED2 and skipped the se.


----------



## Etzer

Well, my Aliexpress KZ order arrived at a sort facility in California today. The wait is almost over! 
  
 In the meantime, I got the SoundSOUL S-018 from Amazon and I'm really loving the sound from them. Very clear, no sibilance. Given that they're in the same price range, I'm looking forward to see how they compare to the KZs when they arrive.


----------



## anduril

b9scrambler said:


> From what I've been told (since I inquired about the same thing a while back) , the ED2 and se are identical, except for the mic. Had I know that I would have picked up the ED2 and skipped the se.


 

 My thoughts exactly. The only thing keeping me from doing that is this:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-official-flagship-store-selling-cheap-cell-phone-headset-ear-headphones-sound-bass-HIFI/1380688_2042672476.html
 But yeah, it still looks identical to EDse.


----------



## dbhai

mebaali said:


> 10/30/2014 10:44:00 AMCHINA518103Receive item from customer (Otb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/22/2014 10:13:00 AMCHINABEIJINGInsert item into bag (Otb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/23/2014 8:01:00 AMCHINABEIJINGSend item abroad (EDI-received)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  11/23/2014 11:01:00 PMCHINABEIJINGSend item abroad (EDI-received)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE  12/13/2014 5:51:24 PMINDIAKOLKATA FOREIGN LCAOReceive item at office of exchange (Inb)AirKOLKATA AIRPORT SORTING OFFICE
> 
> 
> @Shawn71 - At last, my package has reached the Indian shores  ( now the long wait starts from Indian Customs office  )


 
 and that gave me some idea, for how long more, I shouldnt check the status, phew, man, congratulations


----------



## dbhai

biggearhunter said:


> Sir, I do not appreciate you and others hyping the Micro Ring so much. It makes my waiting for it to arrive all that much harder


 
 Hey, from where did you buy them, if you share it


----------



## EISENbricher

From my experience Custom office doesn't take much time. My past 3 orders spent only a day or two at customs (Mumbai Office)  : )


----------



## mebaali

dbhai said:


> and that gave me some idea, for how long more, I shouldnt check the status, phew, man, congratulations




Thanks dbhai 

My previous orders from aliexpress that passed through Kolkata customs office usually took 2 to 4 weeks to get cleared. So far I have not paid any extra cash while receiving these packages from China. Most of my previous packages were small in size and very low in value (less than 20 US$). But this time LPS is bigger in size as well as weight (price too 26 US$) so expecting some custom tax from Kolkata office.

BTW, i think delay in my LPS shipping from China could be attributed to peak season for shopping. Don't see your package too to go through such delay.

Cheers


----------



## Lawstorant

goa604 said:


> Ordered KZ EDSE 2 days ago, just ordered KZ R3.
> Im planning on ordering KZ GK-CM9 and KZ ED1 in week of time.
> If you feel CM9 or ED1 are a huge mistake to buy please let me know. Im more interested in having a few pleasing headphones and switch them around than one killer iem .
> I mean KZ GK-CM9 has a 14mm driver?? ED1 i loove how they look just like i adore the looks of r3+ those hot detachable cables and for 12$??
> ...



Just don't! Well, they aren't the worst, but they clearly sound like what they cost. Not even close in performace to KZ EDSE.

Hi everyone! I'm new to the KZ family. After hearing my friends KZ EDSE I instantly ordered them and KZ GR.
I'm just amazed how 8$ IEMs can perform better than my SoundMagic PL50...

Anyway - greetings from Poland!


----------



## 1clearhead

lawstorant said:


> Just don't! Well, they aren't the worst, but they clearly sound like what they cost. Not even close in performace to KZ EDSE.
> 
> Hi everyone! I'm new to the KZ family. After hearing my friends KZ EDSE I instantly ordered them and KZ GR.
> I'm just amazed how 8$ IEMs can perform better than my SE PL50...
> ...


 
  
 Yes, they're really sturdy and strong for a budget IEM costing only a lunch meal.


----------



## KingOfThorns

Hello...I became a proud owner of GK-GRs, after 4 weeks of waiting...and I'm very pleasantly surprised. Great build quality and great soung for the buck. I use them on my Sony E463 portable player and they blew away everything I had before them...granted, I only had crap IEMs, last being Cooler Master Storm Pitch. GRs are much louder, vastly better bass and mids...highs needed a slight boost, IMO, but that might be my ear, tho. All in all, I am very satisfied.
  
 Having said that, I have 2 questions:
 1. I see that some mention holes (or lack of them) on the nozzles of GR...what's up with that?
 2. After all that praise of EDSE, I am thinking of bying them...how would you compare them to the GR (with red nozzle)? What's the difference in sound and is it worth getting a new pair, next to GR?


----------



## Ira Delphic

kingofthorns said:


> Hello...I became a proud owner of GK-GRs, after 4 weeks of waiting...and I'm very pleasantly surprised. Great build quality and great soung for the buck. I use them on my Sony E463 portable player and they blew away everything I had before them...granted, I only had crap IEMs, last being Cooler Master Storm Pitch. GRs are much louder, vastly better bass and mids...highs needed a slight boost, IMO, but that might be my ear, tho. All in all, I am very satisfied.
> 
> Having said that, I have 2 questions:
> 1. I see that some mention holes (or lack of them) on the nozzles of GR...what's up with that?
> 2. After all that praise of EDSE, I am thinking of bying them...how would you compare them to the GR (with red nozzle)? What's the difference in sound and is it worth getting a new pair, next to GR?


 
  
 Also consider KZ DT3. 
  
 Holes ... http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/1575#post_11060453


----------



## KingOfThorns

ira delphic said:


> Also consider KZ DT3.
> 
> Holes ... http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/1575#post_11060453


 
 I guess my GRs are holeless too...sigh. Ordered from the same place most of people here got theirs...
  
 Anyway, what's the DT3 like, in comparison to GR and EDSE? I really like the bass and lower mids on GR, but I wouldn't mind slightly brighter sound...just slightly.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I don't have the EDSE - still in the hands of China Post, so can't compare. The DT3 have lots of bass, recessed mids and bright, sounding natural highs. Also the DT3 are plastic - that means light weight. Unlike the GR. The cord is thick rubber/plastic. Thicker than your typical inexpensive IEM.


----------



## 1clearhead

kingofthorns said:


> I guess my GRs are holeless too...sigh. Ordered from the same place most of people here got theirs...
> 
> Anyway, what's the DT3 like, in comparison to GR and EDSE? I really like the bass and lower mids on GR, but I wouldn't mind slightly brighter sound...just slightly.


 
  
 Get the EDSE, they sound clear and bright (but not overly bright) with excellent details.


----------



## KingOfThorns

I thought so...GR have quite enough bass, no need for more, heh...EDSE sound like they might be my next purchase.


----------



## Wokei

kingofthorns said:


> I guess my GRs are holeless too...sigh. Ordered from the same place most of people here got theirs...
> 
> Anyway, what's the DT3 like, in comparison to GR and EDSE? I really like the bass and lower mids on GR, but I wouldn't mind slightly brighter sound...just slightly.




Greetings from Wokei ....check out ED3 too.....cheers


----------



## smy1

wokei said:


> Micro Ring GOOOOOOOOOOOD...muahahahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> Just passin' thru...dont mind me


 
  
 as a korean i prove this picture


----------



## smy1

dt3 bass is so good
 and does the sound change on the dt3?
  
 and i think they just got some new iems 
  
 rs1
  
 lp2
  
 ed8
  
 gk r35
  
 gk c56r
  
 gk tuner


----------



## nismo88

smy1 said:


> dt3 bass is so good
> and does the sound change on the dt3?
> 
> and i think they just got some new iems
> ...


 
 This is the new ed8....


----------



## 1clearhead

nismo88 said:


> This is the new ed8....


 
  
 That looks like it came out of the "bat cave".


----------



## nismo88

1clearhead said:


> That looks like it came out of the "bat cave".


 

 Ok... Batman lovers take note....


----------



## Wokei

nismo88 said:


> Ok... Batman lovers take note.... :etysmile:




Astrotec models?


----------



## nismo88

wokei said:


> Astrotec models?


 

 That's the new KZ-ED8


----------



## Wokei

nismo88 said:


> That's the new KZ-ED8




Me meant they look like Astrotec AM90


----------



## bhazard

The ED8 and LPS2 are new. Damn wallet. The LPS2 upgrades on the previous LP2 (which I didn't like). The LPS was a nice upgrade over the LP though, so I'm interested.
  
 They will most likely get a sale, and then I'll need to jump on them both.


----------



## altrunox

Damn, ED8 is sexy! I want one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And LPS2 too, damn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 SCHIIIIIIIIIT, they`re foldable, need then! I`ll be waiting for a 30/40% sale on them.


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> Me meant they look like Astrotec AM90


 
  
 You are definitely right, Robin!.....Oooops I meant 'Wokei'!
  
 Batman without his cape?


----------



## goa604

My jimmies will be seriously rustled if ed8 sound any good. I personally think they look atrocious.


----------



## anduril

What? Atrocious? They're NO ORDINARY BIRTH mind you...! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyway I like how they look.


----------



## EISENbricher

Dat ED8 though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed8-Original-High-end-headphones-Phone-headset-Music-headphones-Fidelity-headphones-3-5mm-standard-interface/32254712502.html

 These people are original KZ manufacturers, I'm almost sure. Even received mail from 'em with the same company name written on it. (Shenzhen Yuanze Elec). 
  
 Has anybody ordered the ED8 yet? They are claiming the ED8 having the same 'Independent Unit of AKG'.


----------



## anduril

b9scrambler said:


> From what I've been told (since I inquired about the same thing a while back) , the ED2 and se are identical, except for the mic. Had I know that I would have picked up the ED2 and skipped the se.


 
 Strange thing is there are both mic'd and unmic'd versions of both EDse and ED2... I somehow missed the mic'd EDse in the shop before.
 ED2 is still cheaper though.
  
 EDse $6.86   EDse(m) $7.56   ED2 $6.02    ED2(m) $6.72
  
 I will try to ask the seller about the differences and definitely order one of them.
  
 EDIT:


> Special Edition ed more attention to the human voice, ed2 pay more attention to the bass


 
 Buying the EDse.


----------



## 1clearhead

anduril said:


> Strange thing is there are both mic'd and unmic'd versions of both EDse and ED2... I somehow missed the mic'd EDse in the shop before.
> ED2 is still cheaper though.
> 
> EDse $6.86   EDse(m) $7.56   ED2 $6.02    ED2(m) $6.72
> ...


 
  
 Thumbs up!......Hopefully you'll enjoy them.


----------



## anduril

I still suspect they are exactly the same... but I won't risk being proved wrong for a few cents 
 Thanks for all the tips!


----------



## dbhai

anduril said:


> I still suspect they are exactly the same... but I won't risk being proved wrong for a few cents
> Thanks for all the tips!


 
  
 Yes I believe EDSE is one of the popular choice in here, I am waiting for them as well, and good to see new stuff coming up from KZ


----------



## goa604

Hope we see some affordable balanced armatures from KZ.


----------



## EISENbricher

goa604 said:


> Hope we see some affordable balanced armatures from KZ.



Well said. Yeah... A good multi BA from KZ under $100 a dream... Heck they might even sell it for $50


----------



## CoiL

Help needed! 
  
Can`t decide between *Knowledge Zenith GR Balanced Pro** *and *Knowledge Zenith ED Special Edition.*
  
I will be using it with iBasso DX50 (SU 1.3.3 FW + upgraded caps) and I like large airy soundstage with good depth towards front (distance, "outside of head" imaging). Don`t care so much about soundstage "stretching" in width. 
  
I like neutral/balanced sound with *littlebit* enhanced bass and not recessed mids (neutral is ok).
  
For reference, I like what I`m hearing out of Piston V2.1 but it`s soundstage is kind of ᴧ-shaped, would like something with more *∩*-shaped soundstage.
  
I had HAVI B3 Pro1 but despite soundstage, separation etc. being awesome it lacked bass for me (tried a lot of tips) and gave no emotion out of music.
  
Music I listen most can be found in my profile.
  
Or should I look into other models?
  
  
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Hisoundfi

coil said:


> Help needed!
> 
> Can`t decide between *Knowledge Zenith GR Balanced Pro** *and *Knowledge Zenith ED Special Edition.*
> 
> ...


 
 Get the KZ ED Special Edition. 
  
 There are a lot of reported QC issues recently with the filters on the GR.
  
 You can't go wrong with the KZEDSE, and there is hardly any negative comments about the QC. Also. what you are describing in terms of what you're looking for is exactly how the KZEDSE sounds.
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## CoiL

Ok, thanks for information about GR filters. But, lets say filters are OK - which one would be better for my taste?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Help needed!
> 
> Can`t decide between *Knowledge Zenith GR Balanced Pro** *and *Knowledge Zenith ED Special Edition.*
> 
> ...


 
 EDSE all the way bro... It's the KZ Thread's darling and approved by many. You may also like to try ED3 and ES. GR were also good but please navigate a few pages back in this thread to read about issue about its SQ in recent units.
  
 Also, 'KZ Official Flagship Store' is selling these iems for much cheaper (<$10). It's a trusted seller and I'd suggest it.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Ok, thanks for information about GR filters. But, lets say filters are OK - which one would be better for my taste?


 
 GR issue is I guess, not even a QC issue. They might have decided to remove the sound hole altogether. Their newer product images don't display that hole.
 I'd say don't even consider GRs even though they look unique and awesome.


----------



## Hisoundfi

coil said:


> Ok, thanks for information about GR filters. But, lets say filters are OK - which one would be better for my taste?


 
 Based on what you are looking for, the KZEDSE is more ideal.
  
 KZEDSE is a mid forward IEM with plenty of bass and a warm signature. Barring you don't get a dud, you're going to like it, trust me.
  
 Treble is crisp, but even if you find it to be too much it can be easily tamed with an EQ setting. Build quality is spectacular.


----------



## CoiL

Ok, thanks! Will go for KZEDSE.


----------



## EISENbricher

I went ahead and ordered 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed8-Original-High-end-headphones-Phone-headset-Music-headphones-Fidelity-headphones-3-5mm-standard-interface/32254712502.html
  
 Quote:


coil said:


> Ok, thanks! Will go for KZEDSE.


 
 Good decision, friend.


----------



## CoiL

I hope so, ordered 2pcs. 
  
 Keep us updated about ED8... especially vs. KZEDSE.


----------



## EISENbricher

yeah 


coil said:


> I hope so, ordered 2pcs.
> 
> Keep us updated about ED8... especially vs. KZEDSE.


 
 Be sure about that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Surely will keep the thread updated. The ED8 looks promising. 
  
  
 EDIT: I contacted the seller about shipping (Trying to get him ship through HK or SG post) but then he suddenly said that the ED8 is no longer in stock. His poor English confused me so I couldn't ask him what will happen to my already placed order. Will see... anyway AliEx has buyer protection.


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> Treble is crisp, but even if you find it to be too much it can be easily tamed with an EQ setting.


 
 Just noticed the edit. My ears are very sensitive to highs and I never use EQ ! 
 LOL


----------



## Hisoundfi

coil said:


> Just noticed the edit. My ears are very sensitive to highs and I never use EQ !
> LOL


Get them, they won't disappoint you my friend. 

Trust us lol


----------



## CoiL

Already got 2pcs from that "official aliexpress store" before I noticed post edit. I hope those crisp highs won`t be a problem. Will give feedback when I receive them.


----------



## Hisoundfi

coil said:


> Already got 2pcs from that "official aliexpress store" before I noticed post edit. I hope those crisp highs won`t be a problem. Will give feedback when I receive them.


I'm confident they won't disappoint. We're looking forward to reading your impressions of them. 

Cheers


----------



## CoiL

> Originally Posted by *EISENbricher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> GR issue is I guess, not even a QC issue. They might have decided to remove the sound hole altogether. Their newer product images don't display that hole.


 
 Just curious - what hole are You talking about?
  
 And how KZ-R95 compare to KZEDSE?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Just curious - what hole are You talking about?
> 
> And how KZ-R95 compare to KZEDSE?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/1575#post_11060453
  
 R95 too much bassy from what I've read here... haven't heard myself. Thread oldies might be able to help. (HSF or Wokei).


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Already got 2pcs from that "official aliexpress store" before I noticed post edit. I hope those crisp highs won`t be a problem. Will give feedback when I receive them.


 
  
 2 is the way to go......have fun with them!


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> I went ahead and ordered
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed8-Original-High-end-headphones-Phone-headset-Music-headphones-Fidelity-headphones-3-5mm-standard-interface/32254712502.html


 
  
 Thanks EISENbricher for being on the KZ bleeding edge! 
  

  
 I have a feeling The KZ ED-8 will be a winner! You'll let us know!


----------



## Wokei

coil said:


> Just curious - what hole are You talking about?
> 
> And how KZ-R95 compare to KZEDSE?







eisenbricher said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/1575#post_11060453
> 
> R95 too much bassy from what I've read here... haven't heard myself. Thread oldies might be able to help. (HSF or Wokei).




If you already ordered KZ EDSE...it best R95...listening to them as me typing this post...bass is strong but bleed into the mid while sub bass is weak overall bass sounds echoish...treble is harsh and grainy and the soundstage is wonky to me ears...EDSE is buttery while R95 taste like burnt barbeque chicken....lol


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Thanks EISENbricher for being on the KZ bleeding edge!
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling The KZ ED-8 will be a winner! You'll let us know!


 
 Sure! btw now ED8 at 35% discount! It's trading below $10


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Sure! btw now *ED8 at 35% discount! It's trading below $10*


 
  
 Must...resist...


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Must...resist...


 
 Haha I can understand. I couldn't resist. Let me tell you something, I've been considering getting Astrotec AM90s for my sister as they looked ultra cool to me   btw my sister isn't an audiophile so any earphone sounds same to her. That means I'm paying this much money just for looks! Dunno how in the world KZ picked up the same design and made ED8 xD
  
 Now you know why I ordered it so suddenly haha Perfect candidate for me. Well I'll give it away to my sis but only after spending some quality time with 'em.


----------



## Wokei

Double post ...sorry guys

Filler instead...enjoy


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> Haha...you are beginning to think like @Hisoundfi...you are doing very well in me book...muahahahahaha


 
 Enlighten me a bit, senpai? I dunno really how my other senpai think like ~


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Enlighten me a bit, senpai? I dunno really how my other senpai think like ~




Just pulling your legs..."Senpai" Hisoundfi...is the Tribal Council Chief of KZ....do update us when you get the ED8....


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> Just pulling your legs..."Senpai" Hisoundfi...is the Tribal Council Chief of KZ....do update us when you get the ED8....


 
 I shall update on time


----------



## Etzer

Looks like the ED8 will be $9 for another 15 days, so at least there's time to think about it.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm holding out for the price drop. 

I got burned by the dt5


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> I'm holding out for the price drop.
> 
> I got burned by the dt5


 
  
 I see in your profile the Dt5 is not at the top (or middle) of your list in terms of the "best" at top.
  
 Great list btw! I refer to it often.


----------



## smy1

coil said:


> Ok, thanks! Will go for KZEDSE.




Good choice The gr are just terrible it's not worth the risk 

Edse and dt3 are my number 1 so far


----------



## B9Scrambler

Everyone keeps overlooking the Micro Ring. Pity...


----------



## smy1

b9scrambler said:


> Everyone keeps overlooking the Micro Ring. Pity...


 
 where can i find the micro ring


----------



## B9Scrambler

smy1 said:


> where can i find the micro ring




I bought it here...not for 14 USD though.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-professional-5-8MM-extreme-micro-ring-ear-headphones-HD-audio-enthusiast-penetrating-vocals/1987208449.html


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Just pulling your legs..."Senpai" Hisoundfi...is the Tribal Council Chief of KZ....do update us when you get the ED8....


LOL, all that means is that I'm the idiot that spends the most money lmao


----------



## dbhai

b9scrambler said:


> I bought it here...not for 14 USD though.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-professional-5-8MM-extreme-micro-ring-ear-headphones-HD-audio-enthusiast-penetrating-vocals/1987208449.html


 
 I too was curious about the same, this isnt easy to find, plus not at this cost, guess current lowest is at 16 USD


----------



## dbhai

eisenbricher said:


> Sure! btw now ED8 at 35% discount! It's trading below $10


 
  
  


ira delphic said:


> Must...resist...


 
  
 Exactly my feeling, I shall wait


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> LOL, all that means is that I'm the idiot that spends the most money lmao




Me friend....you know "Wokei" respects and value your input and me believe many too feels the same...spending money part...true dat


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> LOL, all that means is that I'm the idiot that spends the most money lmao


----------



## rontant

hisoundfi said:


> I'm holding out for the price drop.
> 
> I got burned by the dt5


 
  
 ED8 is now $9.10. Wait no more...


----------



## Hisoundfi

rontant said:


> ED8 is now $9.10. Wait no more...


Funny story... 

I made this post, and within an hour the aliexpress KZ store had a "mobile deal" for $8.65.

Already ordered my friend. Thanks for the heads up though. 

PS, after I ordered I got a message saying that they won't ship the ed8 until January. So, be prepared to wait if you do order them. 

Senpai over and out lol


----------



## CoiL

ED8 seems too bling-bling imo and usually products like that don`t do so great in what they are meant to do. Waiting for user feedback.
 Yes they are cheap but not feeding money just because of "beauty".


----------



## altrunox

coil said:


> ED8 seems too bling-bling imo and usually products like that don`t do so great in what they are meant to do. Waiting for user feedback.
> Yes they are cheap but not feeding money just because of "beauty".


 

 Just gift someone


----------



## 1clearhead

Wait? So, the KZ-ED8, though looks the same as the Astrotec AM90, it carries an 8mm diaphragm? I believe the AM90 carried a BA armature. Is that right?


----------



## Hisoundfi

I remember getting the KZEDSE, and thinking they looked like a midevil torture weapon.
  
@CoiL,  you are on to something sir, I'm noticing that the most ugly looking KZ monitors usually sound the best.
  
 Case and point, the EDSE, GR, and let's just admit, the DT3 is pretty ugly...
  
 IMHO the DT8 is pretty ugly. I'm thinking it's going to sound amazing lol
  
 I hope so, the DT5 stuff was a bust to me.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> I remember getting the KZEDSE, and thinking they looked like a midevil torture weapon.
> 
> @CoiL
> ,  you are on to something sir, I'm noticing that the most ugly looking KZ monitors usually sound the best.
> ...




Ugly=good sounding

Mmmmmmmmmmm.....


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> Funny story...
> 
> I made this post, and within an hour the aliexpress KZ store had a "mobile deal" for $8.65.
> 
> ...


 
 lol I had ordered ED8 for $12 and within minutes that mobile deal started. So cancelled that and ordered again for <$9.
  
 Oh yeah and I also got the message from seller about delay in shipping.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Maybe I missed this and it's been posted?  The official KZ site:
  
 http://www.kzearphone.com/English/


----------



## 1clearhead

ira delphic said:


> Maybe I missed this and it's been posted?  The official KZ site:
> 
> http://www.kzearphone.com/English/


 
  
 Good to know.....thanks!


----------



## Ira Delphic

1clearhead said:


> Good to know.....thanks!


 
  
 This means, theoretically, we can contact them! A stunning graphic from the site:


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> This means, theoretically, we can contact them! A stunning graphic from the site:


 
 oh my... xD LOLLLLLLL


----------



## CoiL

Now, that`s more like it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 GK-RS1 and KZ-C3 seem interesting and seems KZ-GR do have port holes if picture is correct.


----------



## anduril

coil said:


> Now, that`s more like it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't count on the holes in GR... I hope I'm wrong though.


----------



## Ira Delphic

anduril said:


> I wouldn't count on the holes in GR... I hope I'm wrong though.


 
  
 But the holes are there...right on the OFFICIAL KZ website!    /s


----------



## CoiL

Any comments on KZ-IE8 and KZ-IE7 ? 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Promotion-Retail-box-Professional-Dynamic-Hifi-IE8-in-ear-Stereo-Earphone-for-PSP-MP4-MP3-iPhone/1452456457.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-IE7-Noise-Cancelling-Professional-Hifi-Deep-Bass-In-Ear-Stereo-Music-Earphone-Mobile-Headphone-as/32221882796.html
  
 Thinking about pulling trigger on RS1...
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-RS1-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-Super-Clear-Bass-Metal-Headphone-Noise-isolating-Earbud-for/2050255267.html


----------



## anduril

coil said:


> Any comments on KZ-IE8 and KZ-IE7 ?


 
Sounds tempting: *KZ-IE8* IE80 professional ear headphones ear majestic sound field fever HIFI original material loss  
 Also WIRED NOODLES.


----------



## bhazard

The RS-1 is crap. Stay away from it


----------



## Ira Delphic

anduril said:


> Sounds tempting: *KZ-IE8* IE80 professional ear headphones ear majestic sound field fever HIFI original material loss
> Also WIRED NOODLES.


 
  
 Look at this other listing...
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-KZ-IE8-mobile-phone-headphones-without-microphone-wired-noodles-ear-headset-earphones-high-quality/1903318794.html
  
 The test report is from April 2013 and tests for lead, chromium etc. KZ is an enigma wrapped around an enigma!


----------



## CoiL

"...comply with the limits as set by RoHS". Wat are U talking about? Everything seems ok to my eyes.
  
 Still, any comments on KZ-IE8 ? They look like HAVI B3 copies and have some kind of "tuning" system (whatever that is).
 Removable round cable (I hated B3 flat cable). Wonder how they sound.


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> "...comply with the limits as set by RoHS". Wat are U talking about? Everything seems ok to my eyes.
> 
> Still, any comments on KZ-IE8 ? They look like HAVI B3 copies and have some kind of "tuning" system (whatever that is).
> Removable round cable (I hated B3 flat cable). Wonder how they sound.


 
  
 What I mean is I should hope it complies. And the date for the doc couldn't be right. It's just bizarre that the seller included it. Like they didn't understand the content.


----------



## BigGearHunter

I'm also getting a pair of ED8s looks like. Since they're going to be shipped in January, I should get them around late February or early March. Here's hoping they sound as good as they look!


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> "
> They look like HAVI B3 copies and have some kind of "tuning" system (whatever that is).
> Removable round cable (I hated B3 flat cable). Wonder how they sound.




No, they are the actual clones of senns (officially  ) fm AE not the clones of B3 but B3 were....but not exactly as senns way with diff bass tuning knob and RC.....


----------



## EISENbricher

ED8 for free!!! (If you're lucky  )


----------



## anduril

I don't care enough to try and calculate the probability of that happening


----------



## goa604

Damn, i can only find the Micro Ring for 30+usd.


----------



## EISENbricher

goa604 said:


> Damn, i can only find the Micro Ring for 30+usd.


 
 This one ?  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html
  
 Though it says 'Apparatus Of' I suspect that it's Micro Ring earphone.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

eisenbricher said:


> This one ?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html
> 
> Though it says 'Apparatus Of' I suspect that it's Micro Ring earphone.


 
 This is the store that I ordered mine from some time ago (July). When I click through my old order it shows it at $20 and it's now called Tuna. But your link is directly to the store as well for $16. Odd but I can say that I did receive mine from this company.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goa604 said:


> Damn, i can only find the Micro Ring for 30+usd.




My link from a couple pages ago has it for sale at 14 USD.


----------



## EISENbricher

the dan of steel said:


> This is the store that I ordered mine from some time ago (July). When I click through my old order it shows it at $20 and it's now called Tuna. But your link is directly to the store as well for $16. Odd but I can say that I did receive mine from this company.


 
 This seller is not bad. I've read someone purchasing and receiving correct goods from here.
 BTW what you said happened to me as well... was searching for KZ EDSE one Google. I could see the name 'KZ EDSE' on link but it directed me to 'Tuna ER Professional' earphone. I think just branding issues. 
  
 Still always better to buy from original manufacturers (KZ official flagship store and Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics on AliExpress). They don't have micro ring anymore though... I also desperately wanted that one but it's so expensive...


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> This seller is not bad. I've read someone purchasing and receiving correct goods from here.
> BTW what you said happened to me as well... was searching for KZ EDSE one Google. I could see the name 'KZ EDSE' on link but it directed me to 'Tuna ER Professional' earphone. I think just branding issues.
> 
> Still always better to buy from original manufacturers (KZ official flagship store and Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics on AliExpress). They don't have micro ring anymore though... I also desperately wanted that one but it's so expensive...




That "Tuna" shop is where me buy most of me KZ iem...seller is top notch before the official store came in..Cheers


----------



## Ira Delphic

anduril said:


> Sounds tempting: *KZ-IE8* IE80 professional ear headphones ear majestic sound field fever HIFI original material loss
> Also WIRED NOODLES.


 
  
 And $19.89 here but who knows how they are? KZ isn't known for consistent in SQ among their IEM's. 
  
 Edit - like Bhazard said below, the "older" model KZ's should be avoided. KZ is getting better all the time.


----------



## bhazard

Avoid any of the older KZ models. None of them are ever ones I consider pulling out for daily use. If someone is that curious I'll just sell mine for a little more than the cost to ship.
  
 As of right now, the EDSE, micro ring, DT3, LPS, and maybe the DT5 pole tone are good. ED8 and LPS2 TBD.


----------



## CoiL

@bhazard so, You`re telling IE80 is also junk?


----------



## bhazard

coil said:


> @bhazard so, You`re telling IE80 is also junk?


 
 Yes. The EDSE beat them.


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for input! Almost pulled trigger on IE80. Going to stick with KZEDSE until someone says another KZ wipes as: with it


----------



## slowpickr

Yeah I got burned with the ANV and GR (no vent holes).  Should have stopped at the EDSE.  I like it a lot.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Dt5 got shipped out on Tuesday should be here next week


----------



## BigGearHunter

*OH CRAP! *My 5 remaining pairs of KZs have arrived to the local office of exchange. That means I'll get them within a week and finally get to test the Micro Ring, GR, ED3, DT3 and R3!


----------



## goa604

biggearhunter said:


> *OH CRAP! *My 5 remaining pairs of KZs have arrived to the local office of exchange. That means I'll get them within a week and finally get to test the Micro Ring, GR, ED3, DT3 and R3!


 
 Jealous. My EDSE and R3 are just at first "Insert item into bag". Should buy Micro Ring soon. Really dont know if it makes any sense since my phone is by far the weakest link and i kinda cant afford clip+ right now.


----------



## bhazard

eisenbricher said:


> This seller is not bad. I've read someone purchasing and receiving correct goods from here.
> BTW what you said happened to me as well... was searching for KZ EDSE one Google. I could see the name 'KZ EDSE' on link but it directed me to 'Tuna ER Professional' earphone. I think just branding issues.
> 
> Still always better to buy from original manufacturers (KZ official flagship store and Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics on AliExpress). They don't have micro ring anymore though... I also desperately wanted that one but it's so expensive...


 
 I have a spare micro ring (older version) that I could sell you


----------



## BigGearHunter

goa604 said:


> Jealous. My EDSE and R3 are just at first "Insert item into bag". Should buy Micro Ring soon. Really dont know if it makes any sense since my phone is by far the weakest link and i kinda cant afford clip+ right now.


 
 Thanks! The Micro Ring has been hyped so much for so long that I can't wait to test it out. Seems like pretty much everyone has picked one of the KZs I'm getting as their favorite, except maybe the R3 which was labeled as a darling for acoustic music but not much else. Oh well, a detachable cable IEM is something I'd wanted for a while now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

biggearhunter said:


> Thanks! The Micro Ring has been hyped so much for so long that I can't wait to test it out. Seems like pretty much everyone has picked one of the KZs I'm getting as their favorite, except maybe the R3 which was labeled as a darling for acoustic music but not much else. Oh well, a detachable cable IEM is something I'd wanted for a while now.




Yeah...I adore the Micro Ring. There is a slight veil to their sound which gives it this warm, soft edge. Yet, they still sound pretty nuanced in the finer details. I really have zero complaints about their sound and overall signature. Hands down my favorite buy this year, followed by the VSD3 and ANV=LPS (in that order).


----------



## aisforanti

Hey guys, I won the ED8 when buying the male to male 3.5mm cable. Just chat with the seller, give them your order number and you will probably win.
 As far as I know if your order contains any of these numbers (2,6,3,1,5,8,4,9) you will win - which is pretty common. My order number was 65133183081690.
  
 Also today I got the GK's from the post office and I must say I like them. Not much of an expert(pretty incompetent to be honest), but I am using them with the red chamber and they are just enough bassy, mids and highs are also pretty decent. I got the holeless ones. Compared to the EDSE they are a bit louder and bassier.
  
 Edit: the GK's have very harsh highs when listening to hardcore (not the EDM style). Not very listenable..


----------



## DynamikeB

DT3 is the one to beat for me.  Honestly, for now, I think they even beat my ZA Tenore that I liked so much.  I am not sure how they can produce nice highs, clear (but not forward) mids with such a bass (that rumbles so nicely).
 They are definitely bassy, but with some tip rolling, I found the sweet spot for me with these.  Wow.


----------



## BigGearHunter

Well, what a surprise this is. For the first time ever the mail was faster than the tracking site. I just got my Micro Rings and GR and have them ready for testing. The other 3 should be here soon enough 
  
*EDIT: *HOLY CRAP, the Micro Ring sound is too refined for such a price. Too ******* good lol.


----------



## CoiL

Your GR have port holes?


----------



## BigGearHunter

coil said:


> Your GR have port holes?


 

 Unfortunately, no. I think I bought them on the very first batch that didn't have holes. Oh well, the Micro Ring is blowing my mind enough to make up for it.


----------



## EISENbricher

biggearhunter said:


> Well, what a surprise this is. For the first time ever the mail was faster than the tracking site. I just got my Micro Rings and GR and have them ready for testing. The other 3 should be here soon enough
> 
> *EDIT: *HOLY CRAP, the Micro Ring sound is too refined for such a price. Too ******* good lol.


 
  Man my wallet is already empty    Already I can't resist MRs and you are making it worse 
  
 Quote:


dynamikeb said:


> DT3 is the one to beat for me.  Honestly, for now, I think they even beat my ZA Tenore that I liked so much.  I am not sure how they can produce nice highs, clear (but not forward) mids with such a bass (that rumbles so nicely).
> They are definitely bassy, but with some tip rolling, I found the sweet spot for me with these.  Wow.


 
  Wohho.. that's a big statement to make. So far I haven't seen anyone comparing KZ products to likes of champs such as Tenore. Tbh Tenore is my current fav, I totally adore these and someone claiming that DT3 outclass them tingles me lol.
  
 No doubt that DT3 is one of the best KZ has ever produced but I'd wait for a few more members to confirm if they actually come very close to Tenore in SQ.. or even beat them.
 Quote:


aisforanti said:


> Hey guys, I won the ED8 when buying the male to male 3.5mm cable. Just chat with the seller, give them your order number and you will probably win.
> As far as I know if your order contains any of these numbers (2,6,3,1,5,8,4,9) you will win - which is pretty common. My order number was 65133183081690.
> 
> Also today I got the GK's from the post office and I must say I like them. Not much of an expert(pretty incompetent to be honest), but I am using them with the red chamber and they are just enough bassy, mids and highs are also pretty decent. I got the holeless ones. Compared to the EDSE they are a bit louder and bassier.
> ...


 
 Hey congrats!!! I was PRETTY close... just missed by one number. The 8 was the culprit


----------



## 1clearhead

biggearhunter said:


> Well, what a surprise this is. For the first time ever the mail was faster than the tracking site. I just got my Micro Rings and GR and have them ready for testing. The other 3 should be here soon enough
> 
> *EDIT: *HOLY CRAP, the Micro Ring sound is too refined for such a price. Too ******* good lol.


 
  





  You're killing me.....I need a Micro Ring, now.


----------



## BigGearHunter

1clearhead said:


> You're killing me.....I need a Micro Ring, now.


 

 Not my intention, I know that feeling all too well. On a side note, I'm also digging the GRs more than I thought I would. Sure, they're not EDSEs or the ES, but they're pretty damn fun. I just tried to put one filter of each on both sides and they sound great, actually.


----------



## Youcan1

So what is the word on the gk lps headphones? Would someone who enjoys the Xiaomi pistons and Somic MH463  like them?


----------



## EISENbricher

Sorry intruding here... I've not heard sound of LPS yet but mention of piston causing me to post this... 
  
 Today my roomie bought piston..  A totally non-audiophile dude who only knows that earphones exist to 'emit sound'. Somehow convinced him to buy Pistons as he needed some headset. They sell for pretty cheap here, retailing at $12.60, totally genuine.  I was thinking of getting pistons but since past month's shopping left me broke I couldn't.
  
 I tried the pistons and wow! What a quantity of bass!! Definitely a basshead earphone but nonetheless overall SQ I'd say was pretty good. Especially being a basshead I was intrigued by this. For now I get to keep all 3 extra pairs that came with pistons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Maybe if I need would order one pair for me in future. 
  
 I'd love to hear comparison between Pistons and DT3. Anyone pls??


----------



## anduril

@aisforanti - grats! I missed it by 2 digits.
  
 I have a request too - can anyone compare Superlux 681B (or similar) to KZ-LPS/2?
 I have the former and am interested in the latter  Thanks in advance!
  
 Also I was considering calculating the probability of getting the promo ED8 (assuming the order number being 14-digit and random) but my stat skills got unbelievably rusty... anyone willing?


----------



## CoiL

I have Piston 2.1 (filter modded and stock) but EDSE haven`t arrived yet. Will give feedback when I get them. 
 About Piston being bassy... I wouldn`t call them basshead IEM`s but they do have extended bass which I like. With some music maybe littlebit too much but overall very good and doesn`t bleed much into mids. Only thing that I don`t like about Pistons is it`s somewhat ᴧ-shaped soundstage.


----------



## DynamikeB

Of course, not sure you want to rely on my single comment about the DT3 vs Tenore, but that is my total honest feeling this week.  I have been enjoying the Tenore for a few months now, and really enjoying them.  They are on top of my (short and humble) list of iems with the KC06A, but they are more easy to deal than the Ostry.  Less fatiguing?
  
 Still, coming from my simple gear, Ipod classic, unamped or used with Fiio E5, the DT3 are somewhat kicking serious arse.  They deliver a lot of bass, but it seems to me the mids stay clear and fun enough and the highs are really nice sounding.  Of course, you need tip rolling, and some songs and style are better than others, but to me, DT3 now deliver more punch and fun to almost everything, even acoustic music!  And notice that out from the box, I was not impressed at all with this completely bassy presentation.  With some time, and tip rolling, they now deliver something really nice.
  
 Are they better than Tenore?  Today, for me yes, but I need to keep on listening... and I am far from all the knowledge most of you have here.


----------



## Wokei

1clearhead said:


> You're killing me.....I need a Micro Ring, now.




That's what you've been telling yourself over and over again ...muahahahahahahahahaha...GET IT !

Mmmmmmmmm......DT3 ....anybody care to do comparison with EDSE ...CHEERS


----------



## EISENbricher

dynamikeb said:


> Of course, not sure you want to rely on my single comment about the DT3 vs Tenore, but that is my total honest feeling this week.  I have been enjoying the Tenore for a few months now, and really enjoying them.  They are on top of my (short and humble) list of iems with the KC06A, but they are more easy to deal than the Ostry.  Less fatiguing?
> 
> Still, coming from my simple gear, Ipod classic, unamped or used with Fiio E5, the DT3 are somewhat kicking serious arse.  They deliver a lot of bass, but it seems to me the mids stay clear and fun enough and the highs are really nice sounding.  Of course, you need tip rolling, and some songs and style are better than others, but to me, DT3 now deliver more punch and fun to almost everything, even acoustic music!  And notice that out from the box, I was not impressed at all with this completely bassy presentation.  With some time, and tip rolling, they now deliver something really nice.
> 
> Are they better than Tenore?  Today, for me yes, but I need to keep on listening... and I am far from all the knowledge most of you have here.




Thanks for additional impressions. I wanna try DT3 at some point so I'll check this out myself haha.


----------



## Ira Delphic

wokei said:


> That's what you've been telling yourself over and over again ...muahahahahahahahahaha...GET IT !
> 
> Mmmmmmmmm......DT3 ....anybody care to do comparison with EDSE ...CHEERS


 
  
 I have DT3 (love it!) and expect the EDSE to arrive in the next week or so.


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> That's what you've been telling yourself over and over again ...muahahahahahahahahaha...GET IT !
> 
> Mmmmmmmmm......DT3 ....anybody care to do comparison with EDSE ...CHEERS


 
  
 I know, it's true. But, ironically as a foreigner in China I get paid once a month, so wife and son comes first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I try including them for January purchases.


----------



## bhazard

From what I remember from my Tenore, the DT3 does have a very similar signature to it.


----------



## Youcan1

I went ahead and ordered the GK-LPS headphones. They are cheap enough to take a chance on.


----------



## xtwargodtx

I'm not to sure if its just my unitnbut it seems my KZ EDSE are defective. The right channel sometimes goes out but moving the wire will result it in coming back and moving it again resuots it going out. Sad to see these starting to die already.


----------



## slim311

youcan1 said:


> I went ahead and ordered the GK-LPS headphones. They are cheap enough to take a chance on.




Just got mine in this week. You shouldn't be disappointed, the case and cables (granted, I haven't tried the mic cable yet) are nearly worth the price of admission, and the cans are solid too. Now i got my eye on LPS-2. The white just looks so nice! And they fold! How can I resist?


----------



## genuisgeek

Just got the KZ-EDSE! took practically a month to get them but they were definitely worth it. Very surprised at how good they were. 
  
 Initially got them because my xiao mi pistons broke, and these were a great replacement!
 literally signed up to be a member and posted because of how good they were


----------



## BigGearHunter

The Micro Ring has barely left my ears since this morning, they're fantastically detailed. Hard to believe that they can be so good. I also have my eye on a pair of LP2s, but I'm waiting for the inevitable good discount to pull the trigger. Plus the ED8 will be on its way to me come January. God, how do I love KZ


----------



## B9Scrambler

Weeew! Micro Ring for the win! They are pretty awesome. I'm definitely going to recable mine when they die.

I have the LPS, but the LP2 is tempting. That and the TTPOD T2 will be 2015 purchases most likely.


----------



## goa604

b9scrambler said:


> Weeew! Micro Ring for the win! They are pretty awesome. I'm definitely going to recable mine when they die.
> 
> I have the LPS, but the LP2 is tempting. That and the TTPOD T2 will be 2015 purchases most likely.


 
 How would you recable such delicate ear buds? Any tutorials? thanks.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goa604 said:


> How would you recable such delicate ear buds? Any tutorials? thanks.




They can be taken apart very easily. The front half of the casing pops off to reveal the back of the driver. Should I ever re-cable them, I'll post images.


----------



## Youcan1

slim311 said:


> Just got mine in this week. You shouldn't be disappointed, the case and cables (granted, I haven't tried the mic cable yet) are nearly worth the price of admission, and the cans are solid too. Now i got my eye on LPS-2. The white just looks so nice! And they fold! How can I resist?


 
  
 I wonder if there is much of a difference between the two apart from aesthetics. The LP2 has smaller drivers and higher impedance from what I can tell.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slim311 said:


> Just got mine in this week. You shouldn't be disappointed, the case and cables (granted, I haven't tried the mic cable yet) are nearly worth the price of admission, and the cans are solid too. Now i got my eye on LPS-2. The white just looks so nice! And they fold! How can I resist?




The mic cable has horrendous microphonics. Other than that its fine. SQ does seem to degrade a touch though.


----------



## slim311

youcan1 said:


> I wonder if there is much of a difference between the two apart from aesthetics. The LP2 has smaller drivers and higher impedance from what I can tell.




Not sure if much/any difference in sound. In a perfect world, I would wait for input from others before buying, but I have a feeling I will order them as soon as I get paid next week. As for the smaller drivers, I think they are the same size in both, if I'm not mistaken, the 53mm claim on the LPS is not accurate. I seem to remember reading something about that a ways back in this thread.


----------



## bhazard

slim311 said:


> Not sure if much/any difference in sound. In a perfect world, I would wait for input from others before buying, but I have a feeling I will order them as soon as I get paid next week. As for the smaller drivers, I think they are the same size in both, if I'm not mistaken, the 53mm claim on the LPS is not accurate. I seem to remember reading something about that a ways back in this thread.


 
 The original LP and LP2 did have different sound signatures. The LP2 was too warm for me.
  
 The LPS (also called the LPT for some reason) improved on both, so it'll be interesting to hear the LPS2.
  
 It's funny, my $200 AKGs came barebones (no case, no extra cable), but my $26 LPS included a case and mic cable. Granted the AKG is much better, but the case and cables are worth $26 alone even if you hated the LPS.


----------



## slim311

bhazard said:


> The original LP and LP2 did have different sound signatures. The LP2 was too warm for me.
> 
> The LPS (also called the LPT for some reason) improved on both, so it'll be interesting to hear the LPS2.
> 
> It's funny, my $200 AKGs came barebones (no case, no extra cable), but my $26 LPS included a case and mic cable. Granted the AKG is much better, but the case and cables are worth $26 alone even if you hated the LPS.




Yes, my apologies, I wasn't very specific, as I meant I wasn't sure about differences between LPS and new LPS2 (this confuses me because it's listed as just LP2 on aliexpress official store) . No comparisons to models previous to that was implied. I don't think anybody has even got LPS2 yet, have they?

And I agree completely about the extras, it makes me even less concerned to order the LPS2. If it stinks, somebody I know will like it for the case and cables if nothing else.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I got the KZ R1 today.
  
 It's awesome.
  
 It's got an epic sound for $50, let alone the $4.90 dollars I paid (shipped).
  
 I'm not going to post specific impressions about their sound until I've had a little more time with them. 
  
 I will say that they have a teeny bopper design. If you can get past the look of them they are definitely worth checking out.
  
 Impressions to come. So far they are extremely impressive out of the box. They have plenty of bass that isn't overwhelming. Burn in might change this one way or the other. Midrange is beautifully tuned.  Treble is very well done and appears so far to be along the lines of the DT3.
  
 I get some of these KZ IEM and they are a total bust either because of QC issues or they sound like schiit, but then something like this comes in all I can do is smile ear to ear because of how great they are for sooooo cheap. It's the fabulous KZ stuff that keeps me coming back for more, and I will continue to buy KZ IEMs as long as they keep coming with these amazing sounding cheap IEMs.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> I got the KZ R1 today.
> 
> It's awesome.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1


----------



## goa604

hisoundfi said:


> I got the KZ R1 today.
> 
> It's awesome.
> ...


 
 Ugh im jealous, my KZ that i ordered 9th and 12th are still at "Insert item into bag".

 Im so glad you like yours.


----------



## Youcan1

slim311 said:


> Not sure if much/any difference in sound. In a perfect world, I would wait for input from others before buying, but I have a feeling I will order them as soon as I get paid next week. As for the smaller drivers, I think they are the same size in both, if I'm not mistaken, the 53mm claim on the LPS is not accurate. I seem to remember reading something about that a ways back in this thread.


 
  
 I did a search and didn't find that bit. Though I did see that some people said the sound wasn't great which I don't like. I just want some good sounding headphones. I don't care about the case and cables. I wonder how these stack up to the Superlux and Takstar models everyone always talks about? I was considering those but I thought they might sound too similar to my Somic MH463(which I really like).


----------



## Roderick

youcan1 said:


> I did a search and didn't find that bit. Though I did see that some people said the sound wasn't great which I don't like. I just want some good sounding headphones. I don't care about the case and cables. I wonder how these stack up to the Superlux and Takstar models everyone always talks about? I was considering those but I thought they might sound too similar to my Somic MH463(which I really like).


 
  I measured the drivers:
  
 Quote:


> Besides quality control I must fault KZ for false advertising. These are supposed to have a 53mm driver. They don't. It is 50mm. After such a useless lie, I have a hard time believing stuff about reduced impedance and increased sensitivity are true either. Infact I don't feel these are particularly easy to drive. Pretty average I think. Any opinions on that? Of course if someone could measure these it would be awesome. Driver itself looks a lot like ones I've seen before. It looks like Somic MH463 driver. Only paper parts behind the driver are different. Also TDK ST800 has similar looking driver.


 
  
 Has anyone modded their lps yet? I am strugling with resonances and lacking highs. Initially I liked these a lot with hm5 pads but over time I grew tired of the boomy bass. I also did not like how bulky these became so I'm back with stock pads. I added some felt for dampening and I managed to angle the drivers a bit. I just pushed one edge of the driver until it fell down and angled itself. Those sit firmly in place. That was surprisingly easy  I feel that soundstage is improved but it could be placebo. I would need another pair for comparison. I tried sealing the vents to tame the bass but it did not help. I'm starting to feel that the housing is piece of crap. The plastic is hard and resonant. With this kind of plastic you can make nice pens or something but I would never use it with audio equipment. Has anyone had better luck with modding, or am I just wasting my time here? Did previous kz headphones use such a bad plastic? The new lps2 looks great but if I have to change entire housing to make the headphones sound good it is waste of time and money...


----------



## Hisoundfi

roderick said:


> Has anyone modded their lps yet? I am strugling with resonances and lacking highs. Initially I liked these a lot with hm5 pads but over time I grew tired of the boomy bass. I also did not like how bulky these became so I'm back with stock pads. I added some felt for dampening and I managed to angle the drivers a bit. I just pushed one edge of the driver until it fell down and angled itself. Those sit firmly in place. That was surprisingly easy  I feel that soundstage is improved but it could be placebo. I would need another pair for comparison. I tried sealing the vents to tame the bass but it did not help. I'm starting to feel that the housing is piece of crap. The plastic is hard and resonant. With this kind of plastic you can make nice pens or something but I would never use it with audio equipment. Has anyone had better luck with modding, or am I just wasting my time here? Did previous kz headphones use such a bad plastic? The new lps2 looks great but if I have to change entire housing to make the headphones sound good it is waste of time and money...


 
 Did you try putting cotton behind the drivers to tame the resonance?


----------



## 1clearhead

> Quote:









roderick said:


> Has anyone modded their lps yet? I am strugling with resonances and lacking highs. Initially I liked these a lot with hm5 pads but over time I grew tired of the boomy bass. I also did not like how bulky these became so I'm back with stock pads. I added some felt for dampening and I managed to angle the drivers a bit. I just pushed one edge of the driver until it fell down and angled itself. Those sit firmly in place. That was surprisingly easy  I feel that soundstage is improved but it could be placebo. I would need another pair for comparison. I tried sealing the vents to tame the bass but it did not help. I'm starting to feel that the housing is piece of crap. The plastic is hard and resonant. With this kind of plastic you can make nice pens or something but I would never use it with audio equipment. Has anyone had better luck with modding, or am I just wasting my time here? Did previous kz headphones use such a bad plastic? The new lps2 looks great but if I have to change entire housing to make the headphones sound good it is waste of time and money...






 


You could try covering the back of the diaphragm breathable wave guides. For each tuning port (the small circles) cut a piece of electrical tape just slightly bigger than each hole and cover the port _-one port per each speaker_. For example: Try covering 2 per side....you should be able to hear a difference. You will have a decrease in bass and better clarity for your mids and highs.


 


Take a look below to get the idea.....


 





 


The left diaphragm is the back showing the ports to be covered.


 


You could buy the breathable wave guide sheets according to the speaker size if you want to decrease the bass more, and if you know where to find and purchase them.


 


Good luck!


----------



## Roderick

1clearhead said:


> You could try covering the back of the diaphragm breathable wave guides.


 
 I will try that. With other headphones I've used cigarette rolling paper. Making a sort of a tunnel at the back around the hole might work also. 
  
  


hisoundfi said:


> Did you try putting cotton behind the drivers to tame the resonance?


 
 I'm afraid that might tame the highs even more. These are nice bassy headphones so I don't even know if it makes sense trying to make these sound more neutral since these obviously are not ment to be like that. I just would like to get some nice results before buying lps2. Get some practice. Lps2 seems like the ultimate donor headphone and it would be nice if those could be modded into good sounding headphones without changing the drivers.


----------



## EISENbricher

I was talking with KZ official's representative and thought I'd ask him a recommendation. Just to hear his opinion. He sent me following : 
  
*anv* headphones adapt style: pop vocal, rock, symphony and other large establishment. 
*omx* headphones sound style: a balanced, analytical, human voice. For listening to pop, rock and light music. 
*gr* headphones adapt style: pop vocals, establishment size symphony, rock and so on. 
*rx* headphones adapt Style: Dance, DJ, rock, pop. Three-band equalizer losing pitch, outstanding low-frequency performance. 
*rs1* rock and other low-frequency music headphones applicable. 
*ed3* headphones suitable for pop vocal, DJ, rock and other flexible enough bass. 
*dt5* headset applies to any instrument, the human voice. 
*ed Special Edition* more attention to the human voice. 
*ed2* pay more attention to the bass. 
*ed3* sound even better in person than heavy bass es on the speaker better, extremely accurate frequency performance, 
*dt3* headphones sound performance and adaptation Style:

Double-driven structure makes pronunciation sound performance style tends DT3 IF, it is more suitable for the performance of vocal music, instrumental music.
Thanks to good transient response, DT3 for playing HIFI vocals, European and American pop music, symphonies, dance and so on.
DT3 not good performance of modern Chinese pop music, online music. (Excluding Mandarin voice yindie HIFI)


----------



## solcrystal

eisenbricher said:


> I was talking with KZ official's representative and thought I'd ask him a recommendation. Just to hear his opinion. He sent me following :
> 
> *anv* headphones adapt style: pop vocal, rock, symphony and other large establishment.
> *omx* headphones sound style: a balanced, analytical, human voice. For listening to pop, rock and light music.
> ...


 
  
 Huh... did he repeat on the ED3?  Or was one of them supposed to be the ES or something


----------



## EISENbricher

solcrystal said:


> Huh... did he repeat on the ED3?  Or was one of them supposed to be the ES or something


 
  


eisenbricher said:


> I was talking with KZ official's representative and thought I'd ask him a recommendation. Just to hear his opinion. He sent me following :
> 
> *anv* headphones adapt style: pop vocal, rock, symphony and other large establishment.
> *omx* headphones sound style: a balanced, analytical, human voice. For listening to pop, rock and light music.
> ...


 
 I think one of them was meant to be ES. I just copy pasted what he sent lol


----------



## 1clearhead

eisenbricher said:


> I was talking with KZ official's representative and thought I'd ask him a recommendation. Just to hear his opinion. He sent me following :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
Wow, this is very beneficial and good to know!.....Though the KZ representative kind of screwed-up on the ed3, one should be ES.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> I was talking with KZ official's representative and thought I'd ask him a recommendation. Just to hear his opinion. He sent me following :
> 
> *anv* headphones adapt style: pop vocal, rock, symphony and other large establishment.
> *omx* headphones sound style: a balanced, analytical, human voice. For listening to pop, rock and light music.
> ...


 
  
 Marketing gibberish, copy and pasted by the KZ guy. But thanks for the effort. But good to know KZ says I can listen to "Mandarin voice yindie HIFI" on my DT3!


----------



## Hisoundfi

The KZ LPS/LPT (pretty much the same thing) sound really great with the proper eq adjustment. They are solid headphones with decent drivers, but their out of the box tuning is a bit jank IMHO. Turn the mid bass down and the upper mids and highs up, and you're left with a very nice and extended warm sound with plenty of detail and a very wide soundstage for a closed back headphone.


----------



## goa604

I know some of you guys didnt like the sound of KZ ANV, but its cheap(<-link) though. You guys liked build quality if im not mistaken and might buy it for that price. I bet its good for trap.


----------



## Ira Delphic

goa604 said:


> I know some of you guys didnt like the sound of KZ ANV, but its cheap(<-link) though. You guys liked build quality if im not mistaken and might buy it for that price. I bet its good for *trap*.


 
  
 Trap? You mean rap?
  
 For USD$10 there are much better KZ options. Depending on your taste in music.


----------



## DolceFuria

I just received the DT3 today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Out of the box, they had too much mid-bass drowning out the mids and highs for me, thus i decided to do some tip rolling. When I put the Sennheiser double flanged tips that came with Havi B3 on it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Bam! It became balanced, with supple amounts of bass, not drowning the mids and highs. It brought out the details too. I could hear details that I couldn't hear in VSD3S and T1E even besting many of my other budget IEMs like the Pistons and the Huawei Honor IEM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I would recommend the DT3 to anyone who does not mind build quality and wants to have a "disposable" IEM though I do not recommend disposing it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Wokei

dolcefuria said:


> I just received the DT3 today.  Out of the box, they had too much mid-bass drowning out the mids and highs for me, thus i decided to do some tip rolling. When I put the Sennheiser double flanged tips that came with Havi B3 on it :rolleyes: . Bam! It became balanced, with supple amounts of bass, not drowning the mids and highs. It brought out the details too. I could hear details that I couldn't hear in VSD3S and T1E even besting many of my other budget IEMs like the Pistons and the Huawei Honor IEM :bigsmile_face: . I would recommend the DT3 to anyone who does not mind build quality and wants to have a "disposable" IEM though I do not recommend disposing it  .




Why...why ...build quality is not good .....care to elaborate ......was thinking of getting it .....havent got any KZ for some months ....me been good .......tip rolling is a must ...cheers


----------



## DolceFuria

wokei said:


> Why...why ...build quality is not good .....care to elaborate ......was thinking of getting it .....havent got any KZ for some months ....me been good .......tip rolling is a must ...cheers


 

 It just feels fragile. The bad part of the build is only the cable. The cable's a little thin and theres a lack of strain reliefs. Though the sound quality still outclasses all the bad cons of it since its a frigging $10 iem that sound as capable as a $150 one.


----------



## Ira Delphic

The kz-ed8 doesn't appear to have vents in the rear. At least from the photos I've seen. I hope that KZ isn't cutting corners...


----------



## Ira Delphic

dolcefuria said:


> It just feels fragile. The bad part of the build is only the cable. The cable's a little thin and theres a lack of strain reliefs. Though the sound quality still outclasses all the bad cons of it since its a frigging $10 iem that sound as capable as a $150 one.


 
  
 Huh? Some do. Some don't. The KZ ES has a thickish cable and crimping - strain relieve seen on more expensive IEM's. The DT3 has a thinner cable (and superior SQ than the ES). These two, my only experience with KZ, have an amazingly robust build for the price.


----------



## DolceFuria

ira delphic said:


> Huh? Some do. Some don't. The KZ ES has a thickish cable and crimping - strain relieve seen on more expensive IEM's. The DT3 has a thinner cable (and superior SQ than the ES). These two, my only experience with KZ, have an amazingly robust build for the price.


 

 I was refering only to the DT3 for the cable's build quality, So please no misunderstandings that I was criticizing the whole range of products for the KZ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Furthermore, Its my first and only KZ, So i have no experiences of the rest of the products.


----------



## goa604

ira delphic said:


> *Trap*? You mean rap?
> 
> For USD$10 there are much better KZ options. Depending on your taste in music.


 
 I have EDSE and R3 in the mail so im thinking it could bring a little diversity in sound. 
  
 Nope i mean Trap <-link just rewind to 3:30 if it doesnt do on its own.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dolcefuria said:


> I was refering only to the DT3 for the cable's build quality, So please no misunderstandings that I was criticizing the whole range of products for the KZ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you on that. I believe that KZ put their money in the DT3 drivers and cut back on the rest to keep the price at the same level as their other offerings. There isn't much strain relief that I can see.


----------



## DolceFuria

ira delphic said:


> I agree with you on that. I believe that KZ put their money in the DT3 drivers and cut back on the rest to keep the price at the same level as their other offerings. There isn't much strain relief that I can see.


 

 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Clearly that explains why the sound quality is so darn amazing.


----------



## Ira Delphic

goa604 said:


> I have EDSE and R3 in the mail so im thinking it could bring a little diversity in sound.
> 
> Nope i mean Trap <-link just rewind to 3:30 if it doesnt do on its own.


 
  
 huh I see! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_%28music%29


----------



## B9Scrambler

goa604 said:


> I know some of you guys didnt like the sound of KZ ANV, but its cheap(<-link) though. You guys liked build quality if im not mistaken and might buy it for that price. I bet its good for trap.




The ANV does get a bad rap for poor sound quality...however....those who own it need to try the little filter+tip change add on I posted a while back. They sound so much better this way. 

Also, does anyone know if they discontinued the Micro Ring?


----------



## goa604

b9scrambler said:


> The ANV does get a bad rap for poor sound quality...however....those who own it need to try the little filter+tip change add on I posted a while back. They sound so much better this way.
> 
> Also, does anyone know if they discontinued the Micro Ring?


 
 I just read they dont have bass at all and sound like an old fixed phone. I think ill pass. 
  
 I think it is discontinued but still available here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> Why...why ...build quality is not good .....care to elaborate ......was thinking of getting it .....havent got any KZ for some months ....me been good .......tip rolling is a must ...cheers


 
  
  @Wokei,  get DT3. You won't regret it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is currently my top favorite from the four KZs I got.  It has warm spacious sound and smooth treble.  Just need to be gentle when tip rolling or the casing could split apart like what happened to mine. No harm done though. A little Uhu fixed it good.


----------



## slowpickr

goa604 said:


> I just read they dont have bass at all and sound like an old fixed phone. I think ill pass.
> 
> I think it is discontinued but still available here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html




Ashame it's $15. My rule of thumb with KZ is to NEVER spend more than $10.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> The ANV does get a bad rap for poor sound quality...however....those who own it need to try the little filter+tip change add on I posted a while back. They sound so much better this way.




Kindly please ....what filter mod is that ? Thanks in advance



rontant said:


> @Wokei,  get DT3. You won't regret it.
> 
> It is currently my top favorite from the four KZs I got.  It has warm spacious sound and smooth treble.  Just need to be gentle when tip rolling or the casing could split apart like what happened to mine. No harm done though. A little Uhu fixed it good.




Massa Rontant ....its that good huh .....me fingers getting itchy...woot woot


----------



## Ira Delphic

aisforanti said:


> Hey guys, I won the ED8 when buying the male to male 3.5mm cable. Just chat with the seller, give them your order number and you will probably win.
> As far as I know if your order contains any of these numbers (2,6,3,1,5,8,4,9) you will win - which is pretty common. My order number was 65133183081690.
> 
> Also today I got the GK's from the post office and I must say I like them. Not much of an expert(pretty incompetent to be honest), but I am using them with the red chamber and they are just enough bassy, mids and highs are also pretty decent. I got the holeless ones. Compared to the EDSE they are a bit louder and bassier.
> ...


 
  
 I won. I ordered kz-r1 and kz-ed8 and won an ed8. So I'll have two ed8. I hope it doesn't suck!


----------



## aisforanti

ira delphic said:


> I won. I ordered kz-r1 and kz-ed8 and won an ed8. So I'll have two ed8. I hope it doesn't suck!


 
 Actually it turns out I didn't win. The seller contacted me on the next day...


----------



## Ira Delphic

aisforanti said:


> Actually it turns out I didn't win. The seller contacted me on the next day...


 
  
 That sucks. So you didn't get all the numbers - 2,6,3,1,5,8,4,9 in your order number?


----------



## B9Scrambler

slowpickr said:


> Ashame it's $15. My rule of thumb with KZ is to NEVER spend more than $10.


 
  
 The Micro Ring are easily worth 15. 
  

  


wokei said:


> Kindly please ....what filter mod is that ? Thanks in advance


 


 A small ball of fabric plus Sony silicone small bore tips. This tames the splashy, artificial treble. Without this "mod" (I'm hesitant to call it a mod) I'm not much of a fan. With the mod, I like them more than the EDse, but still less and the Micro Ring.
  
 They have fantastic bass (deep and controlled, but not up to basshead levels at all), very forward mids, and lots of detail with a fairly spacious soundstage. It's a shame that in stock form all their pluses are covered up by that treble.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goa604 said:


> I just read they dont have bass at all and sound like an old fixed phone. I think ill pass.
> 
> I think it is discontinued but still available here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html




The ANV can output some serious bass, you just need to tame the treble 1st as it blocks out everything.

Thanks for the link (I already had that exact page bookmarked, lol). I was just curious to know if they had been discontinued since the rep quoted earlier left them out. If so, that sucks since they are very competent and have a unique form among KZ offerings.


----------



## Ira Delphic

b9scrambler said:


> The ANV can output some serious bass, you just need to tame the treble 1st as it blocks out everything.
> 
> Thanks for the link (I already had that exact page bookmarked, lol). I was just curious to know if they had been discontinued since the rep quoted earlier left them out. If so, that sucks since they are very competent and have a unique form among KZ offerings.


 
  
 No worries, the one thing we can count on from KZ is more models coming out. We'll survive without the ANV, Micro rings, etc. And the person from KZ omitted mention of the new kz-ed8.


----------



## BigGearHunter

ira delphic said:


> No worries, the one thing we can count on from KZ is more models coming out. We'll survive without the ANV, Micro rings, etc. And the person from KZ omitted mention of the new kz-ed8.


 
 I'm also getting an ED8 and I'm hopeful about the SQ. Did you notice it has the same cable as the ES and EDSE? That's probably a good sign


----------



## B9Scrambler

ira delphic said:


> No worries, the one thing we can count on from KZ is more models coming out. We'll survive without the ANV, Micro rings, etc. And the person from KZ omitted mention of the new kz-ed8.




Yes indeed  can't wait for newer models. I hope they update or replace the Micro Ring with something similar.


----------



## rontant

b9scrambler said:


> The ANV can output some serious bass, you just need to tame the treble 1st as it blocks out everything.


 
  
 Alright, after some tip rolling and covering the vent holes with Scotch tape. the bass indeed comes out nicely with large size silicon tips. I agree with you on the bass, the spaciousness of the sound and the forward mid but I still find the timbre especially vocals, on many tracks sound artificial and the upper mid/lower treble ear-piercing. I'll experiment later with the mod you suggested,


----------



## B9Scrambler

rontant said:


> Alright, after some tip rolling and covering the vent holes with Scotch tape. the bass indeed comes out nicely with large size silicon tips. I agree with you on the bass, the spaciousness of the sound and the forward mid but I still find the timbre especially vocals, on many tracks sound artificial and the upper mid/lower treble ear-piercing. I'll experiment later with the mod you suggested,




Glad you've been messing around with them.

The ball of fabric is key. It makes the greatest difference. Small bore tips and the fabric should probably negate the need for any other changes.

They certainly have potential. Not really worth the time I guess, given how cheap they are. Still fun though


----------



## rontant

wokei said:


> Massa Rontant ....its that good huh .....me fingers getting itchy...woot woot


 
  
 Up close and personal...
  

  
 Yes, you want DT3... DT3 wants you!


----------



## Wokei

rontant said:


> Up close and personal...
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Will probably snap them up after Xmas...Also Merry Christmas to all...


----------



## DolceFuria

wokei said:


> Will probably snap them up after Xmas...Also Merry Christmas to all...


 

 Don't need to hesitate on buying it. It is definitely more than worth it.


----------



## vovka

hi kz fans.
 i'm gonna buy a couple of EDSE as a gift for my nephew.
 so i want to ask how are they compared to standard apple earpods that come with iphone5?


----------



## 1clearhead

vovka said:


> hi kz fans.
> i'm gonna buy a couple of EDSE as a gift for my nephew.
> so i want to ask how are they compared to standard apple earpods that come with iphone5?


 
  
 I'd be the first to admit, Apple ear-buds are good (the real ones of course), but the EDSE are just too sweet. No comparison when it comes to sound and quality!
  
 .....KZ-EDSE all the way my friend!


----------



## Wokei

1clearhead said:


> I'd be the first to admit, Apple ear-buds are good (the real ones of course), but the EDSE are just too sweet. No comparison when it comes to sound and quality!
> 
> .....KZ-EDSE all the way my friend!  :etysmile:




1clearhead..brand ambassador for KZ ...woot woot



Woot woot..Merry Christmas everybody


----------



## 1clearhead

wokei said:


> @1clearhead..brand ambassador for KZ ...woot woot
> 
> 
> 
> Woot woot..Merry Christmas everybody


 
  
 Woot, woot......I'm dancing, I'm dancing!
  
 .....Merry Christmas to you too buddy!


----------



## BigGearHunter

Merry Christmas to you Wokei and indeed, to you reading this right now. May 2015 be an even better year for KZ and for us audiophiles


----------



## Ira Delphic

Everybody have a joyful Festivus!!!


----------



## Wokei

It will be better..competition is getting stiffer and hopefully they will come out with a killer tuning of a stellar iem....things can only get better...


----------



## Wokei

Everybody have good one this Xmas and even better for the new year..woot woot


----------



## 1clearhead

Merry Christmas KZ followers!
  
_Jump on the Christmas sales while you can!_


----------



## EISENbricher

Merry Xmas my KZ bros!!!!
Santa plss gift me micro ringies


----------



## Ira Delphic

Good news for those of us that ordered the just released *KZ-ED8*.
*Just shipped *from seller Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics Co., Ltd.. I assume we all got them from that seller.
  
 Updatet: got a message from seller, shipping in 3-5 days. But they did give China Post tracking number.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Good news for those of us that ordered the just released *KZ-ED8*.
> *Just shipped* from seller Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics Co., Ltd.. I assume we all got them from that seller.


mine was shipped 5days back... But tracking number still shows no details. 

Btw I also ordered from same seller. He's the same person who also runs KZ official flagship store on AE.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> mine was shipped 5days back... But tracking number still shows no details.
> 
> Btw I also ordered from same seller. He's the same person who also runs KZ official flagship store on AE.


 
  
 I got a bunch of messages last night  - ED8 delayed, not in stock yet since just released, blah blah, then received shipping notification with tracking number this morning that it shipped.
 The same order included the KZ-R1. That shipped before the ED8 - different tracking number.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> I got a bunch of messages last night  - ED8 delayed, not in stock yet since just released, blah blah, then received shipping notification with tracking number this morning that it shipped.
> The same order included the KZ-R1. That shipped before the ED8 - different tracking number.


 
 Same here. Oh and pls let me know once your tracking number activates.
  
 Oh haha thanks! Well my comments were based only on extensive thread reading xD I'm still waiting for my very first KZ (EDSE) and ED8 also on way. China post is sooooooooo slowwwww


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Same here. Oh and pls let me know once your tracking number activates.
> 
> Oh haha thanks! Well my comments were based only on extensive thread reading xD I'm still waiting for my very first KZ (EDSE) and ED8 also on way. China post is sooooooooo slowwwww


 
  
 I just got another message from the seller. The ED8 will ship in 3 - 5 days.


----------



## BigGearHunter

Thanks for reminding me about the ED8, I just asked the seller when he's shipping mine but I got an autoreply for the time being. I'm sure he'll answer soon enough. In other news... I'm enjoying the GR quite a bit with the "one of each filter" mod, if you can even call it that. The sound is just the right amount of bassy, the fit is fantastic (better than the Micro Ring and EDSE even) and it's just a fun set to have and listen to.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Alright DT5 Pole Editions came in today doing tests as we speak. The DT5's came in a wood box which is suprising. I should have a review up tmr. I will be comparing this aginast the kz ed2/edse


----------



## vovka

1clearhead said:


> I'd be the first to admit, Apple ear-buds are good (the real ones of course), but the EDSE are just too sweet. No comparison when it comes to sound and quality!
> 
> .....KZ-EDSE all the way my friend!


 

 thanx a lot
 just ordered EDSE
 and luckily my order number contained all required digits
 so i'm also getting a free ED8


----------



## B9Scrambler

Congrats!


----------



## slim311

For anybody looking for GR with filter holes, there is a pair up in the classifieds. Not my sale, just saw them and thought I'd let anybody know who was looking for those.


----------



## rontant

b9scrambler said:


> A small ball of fabric plus Sony silicone small bore tips. This tames the splashy, artificial treble. Without this "mod" (I'm hesitant to call it a mod) I'm not much of a fan. With the mod, I like them more than the EDse, but still less and the Micro Ring.


 
  
 Btw, how did you pry open the metal mesh grill?


----------



## B9Scrambler

rontant said:


> Btw, how did you pry open the metal mesh grill?




I didn't actually. The small bore allows the filter to sit between the opening and the grill. Just ball up the fabric, stuff it in the eartip, and install. Super easy.


----------



## rontant

b9scrambler said:


> I didn't actually. The small bore allows the filter to sit between the opening and the grill. Just ball up the fabric, stuff it in the eartip, and install. Super easy.


 
 Oic. Actually I thought about that too but I was afraid that the cotton ball might somehow got out and stuck inside my ear canals. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So probably it's not worth the effort. ANV is indeed built like a tank. If it wass built like DT3, probably it is gonna be a piece of cake to mod.


----------



## B9Scrambler

rontant said:


> Oic. Actually I thought about that too but I was afraid that the cotton ball might somehow got out and stuck inside my ear canals.   So probably it's not worth the effort. ANV is indeed built like a tank. If it wass built like DT3, probably it is gonna be a piece of cake to mod.




Yeah, I wouldn't bother removing the grill. I would use something more full than cotton though, like shoelace fabric, lol. Just make sure its pretty dense. Needs to be to smooth out the treble, and stay in the eartip.


----------



## EISENbricher

He Yue
2014-12-25 21:48:58
 Dear Customer, ed8 not yet shipped, tomorrow there will be ed8 headsets come, please be patient.


  
  
  
 Received this from KZ Official while asking about my ED8 shipping status (It's been showing as shipped since a week but still tracking Id doesn't show any information).


----------



## xtwargodtx

Alright so time for my review for the KZ DT5 Pole Editions. So far I have had them for about 5 days and burned them in for 24 hours. At this time i don't have any photos yet but they should be up soon. The IEM i will be comparing this too is the KZ EDSE/ED2. If anyone was wondering what i listen to I am an avid R&B listener but the song i chose to test was Slave to the Rhythm By Micheal Jackson. The sound file is 320 Kbps and I am testing on an HP Pavilion G6.  
  
 Bass:
 So both IEM's have a somewhat bassy sound sig. The bass is very similar in both. From what i can hear the DT5's have more bass but lack the tightness of the edse/ed2's. Though the bass is pretty tight on the Dt5's its just not up to par to the edse/ed2. Especially during the beginning of slave to the rhythm the DT5's bass seems great for the bass drums hits. The Edse/ed2's sound good but it just dosent feel punchy enough now that I have listened to the DT5's. Like I said before the bass is almost the same but I favor the DT5's just for the extra punch. 
  
 Mids:
 Both sets of IEM's are pretty good in the mids. The vocals is Micheal are on both IEM's very clean sounding, the only difference i can really hear between the 2 is that the clarity on the DT5's is a bit worse than the edse. There is also a bit of leakage of bass into the mids on the DT5's. I'd also like to point out after listening to the DT5's for 5 days and switching back to the edse the edse vocals somewhat artificial. I would give the mids to the edse but if you want the more natural vocals then the Dt5's imo are a better bet.
  
 Highs:
 I think that the high range is a point which is again very close tie between the Dt5's and edse. I tested this with Hotel California's From Hell Freezes Over. The highs are just much more  crisp and  on the edse but do sound a bit more lean. The DT5's seem a bit rolled off but the highs still do come out and sound a lot fuller but not as crisp and clear as the edse. Honestly I prefer the Edse highs but atm I really love how the highs of the Dt5's sound.
  
  
 Soundstage:
 Again a different song this time i used Bubbles by Yosi Horikawa. The soundstage is easily given to the DT5's. If you remember I said that the Edse had a very airy sound stage to them but the Dt5's just blow them out of the water. The Balls that a dropped during this song are just crazy the depth of the IEM's. I can just say if you were looking for something with sound stage the DT5's are the way to go.
  
 Build Qualtiy:
 I think again the Dt5;s have nailed it better than the edse. The Jack on the dt5 is much more flat and smaller but still has the nice strain relief. I perfer this jack much more over the edse jack which is a lot more bulky thought they are still both 90 degree plugs. The Y split is much more rugged on the DT5's again the dt5 has strain reliefs for all the wires around the Y splitter. The Wires coming into the IEM casing also is strain reliefed on both IEM's the same so no competition there. 
  
 Conclusions:
 When I heard that the DT5 Pole Editions were going to have a dual dynamic design for under $20 i was pretty impressed and wondered if they could beat my edse's. From what i hear as of now i can happily say they do. If anyone was going to pick up new KZ's i think the DT5 Pole Editions are a really good bet and you will not be regreting your decision. (I think). Anyways hope you guys liked this review if theres anything wrong please tell me as this is my first review.


----------



## 1clearhead

The first person to get the KZ-ED8.....please add some comments!
  
 I'm sure if it's that good, it's highly that even Batman might carry these in his utility belt.


----------



## EISENbricher

1clearhead said:


> The first person to get the KZ-ED8.....please add some comments!
> 
> I'm sure if it's that good, it's highly that even Batman might carry these in his utility belt.


 
 Haha I guarantee that no one would get ED8 before at least 15th Jan. The seller is yet to receive stock lol... I had asked him once more yesterday.
 This time in his reply he seemed like he was pissed off. In sharp words he told me to 'wait patiently' lol


----------



## Charliemotta

You should ask him again.. one more time just to be sure.


----------



## BigGearHunter

charliemotta said:


> You should ask him again.. one more time just to be sure.


 

 Haha, as much as I would like to be an ass to that guy, he's far too nice and attentive for me to do that.


----------



## EISENbricher

charliemotta said:


> You should ask him again.. one more time just to be sure.


 
 lmao if I ask him again he'd never ship my ED8 xD


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> lmao if I ask him again he'd never ship my ED8 xD


 
  
 Once it's been 5 days (he said 3-5) I'll ask where it is


----------



## Dasbo

I just bought the GK-GR and the KZ-ED special edition, hope I did it right.


----------



## smy1

dasbo said:


> I just bought the GK-GR and the KZ-ED special edition, hope I did it right.


 
 GK GR has alot of problems and it dosent sound that good KZ ed is good


----------



## Dasbo

smy1 said:


> GK GR has alot of problems and it dosent sound that good KZ ed is good


 
 I see the GK GR pins does not come with the holes as promised in their "patented" model, too bad.
 Well, I wasn't expecting for a holy grail anyways, I just hope the don't sound like ****. (they don't, do they?)


----------



## goa604

They dont sound like **** exactly but for the money there are way better sounding models.  At least they look wicked cool.


----------



## Dasbo

And that's precisely the reason of why I bought these, I found the design rad.
 Well, now lets just wait a month and get my own conclusions, even if I don't like them at all, I can use them as my workout earphones (because I won't give a damn if they break or not).





 
 Edit:
 Wait a minute, you said better sounding models for the price? but I bought them for like 6-7, what could be better for that price? I can't imagine.


----------



## Hisoundfi

With the right EQ setting, the KZ LPS goes from a bloated and mediocre sounding headphone, to a beautifully balanced set of cans. The EQ setting pictured makes my KZ LPS sound like a million bucks. 

Try it and share impressions. 

Head fi over and out


----------



## EISENbricher

Which player is that? I mean app


----------



## anduril

eisenbricher said:


> Which player is that? I mean app


 
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.desaxedstudios.bassboosterpro


----------



## Breezy

I don't really like a bassy sound so I almost went with the Micro Rings but for the same ~$16 I decided to go for a combo: GR (Looks cool), EDSE (Not the sound signature I typically go for but tons of rad reviews), and the ES (Excited about these).

As long as the build isn't terrible and they sound decent I'm probably good for about 6 bucks a pop. Though I don't know how long until it gets here... I typically get stuff a little faster than others but I'm so impatient.


----------



## goa604

dasbo said:


> And that's precisely the reason of why I bought these, I found the design rad.
> Well, now lets just wait a month and get my own conclusions, even if I don't like them at all, I can use them as my workout earphones (because I won't give a damn if they break or not).
> 
> 
> ...


 
 KZ EDSE you ordered as well.  
 I bought them for about $6 3 weeks ago, still waiting for the package.


----------



## Dasbo

goa604 said:


> KZ EDSE you ordered as well.
> I bought them for about $6 3 weeks ago, still waiting for the package.


 
 Yeah, china mail is quite slow, but I already got used to it.
 Plus, you should  consider we're in the middle of western and asian festivities, so the mail works even slower than they normally do.


----------



## Lawstorant

hisoundfi said:


> With the right EQ setting, the KZ LPS goes from a bloated and mediocre sounding headphone, to a beautifully balanced set of cans. The EQ setting pictured makes my KZ LPS sound like a million bucks.
> 
> Try it and share impressions.
> 
> Head fi over and out


 
 You should really check out Viper4Android. It only need root privileges to install drivers and then - it's just heaven with all this options.


----------



## Dasbo

lawstorant said:


> You should really check out Viper4Android. It only need root privileges to install drivers and then - it's just heaven with all this options.


 
 I thought audiophiles hated EQs and listening to music from smartphones and devices like that lol


----------



## EISENbricher

dasbo said:


> I thought audiophiles hated EQs and listening to music from smartphones and devices like that lol



There are two kind of audiophiles... One love analytical sound, others love fun sound. Since analytical people never compromise on anything and want pure, unaltered sound they hate eqs. Others tune the sound to their liking and then enjoy it. 

Oh one thing I'd like to mention though... I've noticed slight clipping and degradation in sound in case you are Eqing at full volume. Solution is simple. Keep vol near 70 mark and use an amp to get the correct volume. Sounds like heaven.


----------



## cowculator

Finally, the KZ ED8M is shipped. Or so the seller says. It would be a week or two before I actually get them.


----------



## EISENbricher

Is this something new from KZ, or we already know it?
 Sorry I'm kinda new here.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-KZ-IE8-mobile-phone-headphones-without-microphone-wired-noodles-ear-headset-earphones-high-quality/1903318794.html


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Is this something new from KZ, or we already know it?
> Sorry I'm kinda new here.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-KZ-IE8-mobile-phone-headphones-without-microphone-wired-noodles-ear-headset-earphones-high-quality/1903318794.html




Its an old KZ model ......cheers


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> Its an old KZ model ......cheers


 
 Oh... I see ~


----------



## dbhai

Phew finally first KZ, EDSE is here, exactly after a month of waiting 
Hope this looks ok


----------



## B9Scrambler

dbhai said:


> Phew finally first KZ, EDSE is here, exactly after a month of waiting
> Hope this looks ok


 
  Congrats! Enjoy them, 'cause they are pretty darn nice (esp. for the stupidly low price).


----------



## EISENbricher

dbhai said:


> Phew finally first KZ, EDSE is here, exactly after a month of waiting
> Hope this looks ok




Congrats! Mine are still stuck at beijing airport.... 

Impressions, sir?


----------



## goa604

Just got them from the mailman


----------



## dbhai

KZ EDSE, solid build, need to get adjusted with some weight, a little on heavier side
  
 so far seemed pretty much balance and clear sound,
 I checked with my android oneplus one and dell ispiron 14R laptop, shall check with iPod shuffle later on today
  
 treble is sharp, bass is not too much, which is suitable for my liking, full volume did give some disturbance, need to check more on it though.


----------



## Ira Delphic

wokei said:


> Its an old KZ model ......cheers


 
  
 Also I believe that the KZ ie8 is a knockoff of the Sennheiser ie8
  
 KZ ie8:
  

  
 Sennheiser IE8:


----------



## B9Scrambler

ira delphic said:


> Also I believe that the KZ ie8 is a knockoff of the Sennheiser ie8
> 
> KZ ie8:
> 
> ...




Huh....I don't really see the resemblance, but I'll take your word for it


----------



## Ira Delphic

b9scrambler said:


> Huh....I don't really see the resemblance, but I'll take your word for it


 
  
 I can't recall seeing a review of it. I have to assume it doesn't sound like the Senneheiser.


----------



## anduril

goa604 said:


> Just got them from the mailman


 
 Looking good! Any name?


----------



## bhazard

The ED8m is getting some pretty good reviews in China. They also seem to come with those nicer "hurricane spiral" tips.


----------



## Ira Delphic

bhazard said:


> The ED8m is getting some pretty good reviews in China. They also seem to come with those nicer "hurricane spiral" tips.


 
  
 Cool. What I want to hear! I have the two sets on the way. But tracking # still not showing up yet on China Post tracking


----------



## Lawstorant

anduril said:


> Looking good! Any name?


 
 KZ R3
  
 They're wooden


----------



## goa604

anduril said:


> Looking good! Any name?


 
 They are KZ R3 linear.


----------



## Wokei

goa604 said:


> They are KZ R3 linear.




Are they bass heavy ......? Me got one of these R3 ...me liking them very much but some old timer who have them reported them to be bass cannon which is not the case for me .....they are very revealing in the clarity and details = bright ......so if they are .....dont mind getting another pair .....links pls...thanks in advance ..cheers


----------



## goa604

wokei said:


> Are they bass heavy ......? Me got one of these R3 ...me liking them very much but some old timer who have them reported them to be bass cannon which is not the case for me .....they are very revealing in the clarity and details = bright ......so if they are .....dont mind getting another pair .....links pls...thanks in advance ..cheers


 
 Oh they definitely are bass heavy by my standards.
 To give you an idea of what my ears think sounds good, I really enjoy the way my Superlux HD668B sound and lots of people say they are too bright for them. 
 This is the EQ on my audio only Samsung Galaxy S with Voodoo Sound. 
  
 I ordered them HERE

 I plugged them into my burn in station and ill give them 36 more hours of burn in and then i will report back. If i dont forget.


----------



## Wokei

Thanks goa604


----------



## EISENbricher

bhazard said:


> The ED8m is getting some pretty good reviews in China. They also seem to come with those nicer "hurricane spiral" tips.


 
 Nice news. Still my ED8 tracking number isn't showing up :/
 I think I've seen those 'Spiral Hurricane' tips somewhere... right! Those come with TTPODs. But I didn't like 'em, their material was kinda stiff.


----------



## Shawn71

eisenbricher said:


> Nice news. Still my ED8 tracking number isn't showing up :/
> I think I've seen those 'Spiral Hurricane' tips somewhere... right! Those come with TTPODs. But I didn't like 'em, their material was kinda stiff.




Yeah they call them whirlwind and are stiffer.....totally worthless.


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> Huh....I don't really see the resemblance, but I'll take your word for it




Yeah the logos are different......no resemblance.


----------



## B9Scrambler

shawn71 said:


> Yeah the logos are different......no resemblance.


 

 I'm glad you see the lack of resemblance too  lmao


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> I'm glad you see the lack of resemblance too  lmao




 btw,it was actually senn's,then AE cloned 100%, then havi copied the shells leaving behind the variable bass tuning port,RC and added glossy faceplate, now its cloned as a whole again w/ kz logo by KZ.....


----------



## Lawstorant

So, I'm beginning to think that every KZ product is a ripoff (as far as the visuals go). I found the base for LPS. It's V-moda LP
  
 http://v-moda.com/crossfade-lp2-matte-black-metal/
  
 I wonder how diffrent they are in terms of audio representation.


----------



## Ira Delphic

lawstorant said:


> So, I'm beginning to think that *every KZ product is a ripoff (as far as the visuals go).* I found the base for LPS. It's V-moda LP
> 
> http://v-moda.com/crossfade-lp2-matte-black-metal/
> 
> I wonder how diffrent they are in terms of audio representation.


 
  
 I disagree. They have dozens of models and only a handful of the KZ branded IEM's and headphones are dead ringer - lookalikes. I hope going forward KZ doesn't put their logo on obvious clones. It degrades the brand. Not that many take KZ as a brand seriously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## BigGearHunter

So I just received the R3, ED3 and DT3 and they are very beautiful. The construction on the ED3 reminds me quite a lot of the ES, but they're both beautiful in their own ways. Now I just have to listen. I really love KZ a little too much 
  
*EDIT:* Holy crap, you guys were _NOT _kidding about the magnificence of the DT3s sound. I'm amazed. The R3 is also surprisingly incredible as far as SQ goes, not to mention the build quality and detachable cable. The ED3 is also very good, just par for the course at this point with KZ.


----------



## DolceFuria

biggearhunter said:


> So I just received the R3, ED3 and DT3 and they are very beautiful. The construction on the ED3 reminds me quite a lot of the ES, but they're both beautiful in their own ways. Now I just have to listen. I really love KZ a little too much
> 
> *EDIT:* Holy crap, you guys were _NOT _kidding about the magnificence of the DT3s sound. I'm amazed.


 

 I'm glad you enjoyed it.


----------



## Ira Delphic

biggearhunter said:


> So I just received the R3, ED3 and DT3 and they are very beautiful. The construction on the ED3 reminds me quite a lot of the ES, but they're both beautiful in their own ways. Now I just have to listen. I really love KZ a little too much
> 
> *EDIT:* Holy crap, *you guys were NOT kidding about the magnificence of the DT3*s sound. I'm amazed. The R3 is also surprisingly incredible as far as SQ goes, not to mention the build quality and detachable cable. The ED3 is also very good, just par for the course at this point with KZ.


 
  
 Yep. The DT3 has pretty amazing SQ! A very appealing sound signature. My dream would be to have a blind listening test at a meetup - the DT3 in the same test as IEM's costing 10x more.


----------



## BigGearHunter

ira delphic said:


> Yep. The DT3 has pretty amazing SQ! A very appealing sound signature. My dream would be to have a blind listening test at a meetup - the DT3 in the same test as IEM's costing 10x more.


 

 It totally sounds like it's worth 10x more or even a higher price!


----------



## slowpickr

So does the DT3 take the prize as the best overall KZ IEM?


----------



## Shawn71

lawstorant said:


> So, I'm beginning to think that every KZ product is a ripoff




No,certainly not.......they do have plenty of under $10 models (with free s/h WW!) on their own design,to cater the budget-fi'ers but the BQ of them are stellar for their price offering,dont under-estimate....and so the sound that many are satisfied more than for what they paid......even some models come with luxurios cardboard box for that matter.

There might be a possibilty that even it wld've surpassed the sales volume of budget brand soundmagic within a very short span of its presence....who knows.


----------



## bhazard

shawn71 said:


> even some models come with luxurious cardboard box for that matter.


 
 The latest DT5 Pole Tone came in a WOODEN box that I'm keeping. The IEM itself wasn't all that special though. I prefer the DT3 and EDSE.


----------



## bertwong

Hi Happy New Year. I'm new in headfi. It's nice to find this thread. I have found a lot of KZ IEM in taobao. I was suprised by one KZ IE80. it came with original packing and extra cable. It's better than my ATH-CKM99 and my ATH-IM50. The sound is neutral, vocal is warm and sweet, bass is just enough. Compare with SE215SE (costs $120), it's more details.
  
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.9.42.zB5nIM&id=35136504168&_u=126jr11ge019
  
 I was planning to have KC06A, now I think I should also have KZ GR and EDSE.
  
 I had a KZ IE800 but it's nothing special at all.


----------



## PeterDLai

bhazard said:


> The latest DT5 Pole Tone came in a WOODEN box that I'm keeping. The IEM itself wasn't all that special though. I prefer the DT3 and EDSE.


 
  
 A few weeks ago you mentioned that the SoundSOUL S-018 "kills every KZ IEM in SQ" (while the "EDSE is close though"). Can you elaborate a little more on why the SoundSOUL is best in your opinion?


----------



## EISENbricher

Good news!! My ED8 tracking number is finally working, that means it's shipped now.
 What about others?
  
  
 Quote:


ira delphic said:


> Yep. The DT3 has pretty amazing SQ! A very appealing sound signature. My dream would be to have a blind listening test at a meetup - the DT3 in the same test as IEM's costing 10x more.


 
  
  


biggearhunter said:


> It totally sounds like it's worth 10x more or even a higher price!


 
 You guys are making me want the DT3 so hard xD


----------



## DolceFuria

eisenbricher said:


> You guys are making me want the DT3 so hard xD


 

 I can assure you that it is worth every cent that you paid for. Just go for it!


----------



## EISENbricher

dolcefuria said:


> I can assure you that it is worth every cent that you paid for. Just go for it!


 
 Compare DT3 to T1E? 
 I have T1E.


----------



## Ira Delphic

@EISENbricher I also got live tracking info for the ED8! Dated 12/31! My last order from Aliexpress *took almost 5 weeks* (expected to arrive tomorrow). I hope it's closer to 2.5 weeks like orders (non holiday season) in the past.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> @EISENbricher I also got live tracking info! Dated 12/31! My last order from Aliexpress *took almost 5 weeks* (expected to arrive tomorrow). I hope it's closer to 2.5 weeks like orders (non holiday season) in the past.


 
 Great!!!
 I am much less optimistic about my delivery because AliExpress via ChinaPost has pretty bad record here. My 3 shipments are still stuck in Beijing. One since 11th Nov, second since 21stDec and another one since 26th Dec...


----------



## xrM

bhazard said:


> The latest DT5 Pole Tone came in a WOODEN box that I'm keeping. The IEM itself wasn't all that special though. I prefer the DT3 and EDSE.


 

 How does the DT3 sound compared to EDSE? I have the EDSE already and was wondering if I should get the DT3 as well.


----------



## Hisoundfi

xrm said:


> How does the DT3 sound compared to EDSE? I have the EDSE already and was wondering if I should get the DT3 as well.


To my ears, the dt3 is a softer and warmer sound than the kzedse. The mids are more recessed and the bass is slightly more extended and smoother. Treble is less harsh and still has good resolution. 

If you want a warm and polite v signature, dt3 is where it's at. 

Build quality is superior on the kzedse. 

Both are winners in my book. I slightly prefer the kzedse because I enjoy the midrange on them more. Also, I hear a wider soundstage on the kzedse, and I find them more enjoyable at low volume. However, I'll be the first to say that the dt3 has better bass and treble that is very easy on the ears (especially at louder volumes)


----------



## BigGearHunter

eisenbricher said:


> Compare DT3 to T1E?
> I have T1E.


 

 I don't personally have the T1E, but someone a few pages back compared them and said the DT3 is better. As a side note, I'm wearing the DT3 right now, I'm just enjoying it so much.


----------



## BigGearHunter

eisenbricher said:


> Great!!!
> I am much less optimistic about my delivery because AliExpress via ChinaPost has pretty bad record here. My 3 shipments are still stuck in Beijing. One since 11th Nov, second since 21stDec and another one since 26th Dec...


 

 Thanks for the heads up, I just checked and my ED8 is also on the way! Since bhazard said the initial reviews are positive, I'm very excited.


----------



## Hisoundfi

biggearhunter said:


> I don't personally have the T1E, but someone a few pages back compared them and said the DT3 is better. As a side note, I'm wearing the DT3 right now, I'm just enjoying it so much.


Sorry, but the t1e is better than any KZ iem to date IMHO.


----------



## BigGearHunter

hisoundfi said:


> Sorry, but the t1e is better than any KZ iem to date IMHO.


 

 Fair enough, I'm just paraphrasing what someone else said a few pages back.


----------



## EISENbricher

Haha chinese english is funny xD
  
  
*He Yue   *2015-01-01 19:05:06   Oh yes, it has been shipped, oh, please be patient, do not let the pro disappointed oh
*Eisenbricher   *2014-12-31 23:46:45   Hi friend, is this shipped yet?


----------



## mebaali

Just got my KZ-LPS. These cans have got a very tight Head band and they are slightly smaller for my head (These are non-adjustable headband with fixed height). Both earlobes (as well as lower ear) are getting exposed badly. I might have to change the pads (waiting for takstar's velour pads) to see if it solves this fit issue. I got one removable cable (with android control, not tested yet), a clip, and v-moda style case along with the headphone. SQ out of the box, is just about ok and nothing extraordinary yet.


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> Just got my KZ-LPS. These cans have got a very tight Head band and they are slightly smaller for my head (These are non-adjustable headband with fixed height). Both earlobes (as well as lower ear) are getting exposed badly. I might have to change the pads (waiting for takstar's velour pads) to see if it solves this fit issue. I got one removable cable (with android control, not tested yet), a clip, and v-moda style case along with the headphone. SQ out of the box, is just about ok and nothing extraordinary yet.



Congrats... My 3 shipments still stuck at beijing, waiting to fly to kolkata airport. I am worried.


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Congrats... My 3 shipments still stuck at beijing, waiting to fly to kolkata airport. I am worried.


 

 Thanks. You will get it eventually 
  
 I had to wait from 23rd of October to get my LPS. It was stuck at Beijing initially for a month and then nearly 1 and half months at Kolkata before it reached me. Our ways of  customs clearing is painstakingly slow with dubious methods used for calculating duties.


----------



## dbhai

eisenbricher said:


> Congrats... My 3 shipments still stuck at beijing, waiting to fly to kolkata airport. I am worried.


 
  
  


mebaali said:


> Thanks. You will get it eventually
> 
> I had to wait from 23rd of October to get my LPS. It was stuck at Beijing initially for a month and then nearly 1 and half months at Kolkata before it reached me. Our ways of  customs clearing is painstakingly slow with dubious methods used for calculating duties.


 
  
 yes Right, it will come, but really painful to wait and keep on checking updates,
  
 17track shows good update though the time taken is really really long, now came to a conclusion that minimum transit time is 1 month, anything less than that, just enjoy


----------



## EISENbricher

Thanks... 


Actually stuff shipped from Hk, Japan and Singapore took no more than 2-3 weeks to reach. Mumbai customs is fast.


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Thanks...
> 
> 
> Actually stuff shipped from Hk, Japan and Singapore took no more than 2-3 weeks to reach. *Mumbai customs is fast*.


 
 This is exactly what I thought. Mumbai customs seems to be the best of three (Kolkata and Chennai being the other two) that I had to deal with in the past. Fast clearance and no customs duty  #FTW


----------



## goa604

While were at it http://i.imgur.com/9dxPRhM.png
 ordered 9th of December from "kz earphone official flagship store"


----------



## altrunox

mebaali said:


> Just got my KZ-LPS. These cans have got a very tight Head band and they are slightly smaller for my head (These are non-adjustable headband with fixed height). Both earlobes (as well as lower ear) are getting exposed badly. I might have to change the pads (waiting for takstar's velour pads) to see if it solves this fit issue. I got one removable cable (with android control, not tested yet), a clip, and v-moda style case along with the headphone. SQ out of the box, is just about ok and nothing extraordinary yet.


 
 Dude you can adjust the height, check it again


----------



## mebaali

altrunox said:


> Dude you can adjust the height, check it again


 You are a life saver. Till now I was wrongly using this headband and thought that there ain't no height adjustment


----------



## bertwong

I got my KZ EDSE and KZ GR. Thanks for everyone who comment about these IEM. EDSE and GR has different sound signature. The EDSE came with some greasy spot. I really like EDSE which is similar to my KZ IE80. Very bright and neutral. Vocal is the best part of EDSE.
  
 KZ GR seems so powerful and quite artificial. It is not my cup of tea maybe I didn't run in. It's really heavy, heavier then my CKM99. I changed the filter and found that the eartips are not fit at all. Compare with IM50 and KZ GR I would prefer IM50.


----------



## Shawn71

bertwong said:


> I got my KZ EDSE and KZ GR. Thanks for everyone who comment about these IEM. EDSE and GR has different sound signature. The EDSE came with some greasy spot. I really like EDSE which is similar to my KZ IE80. Very bright and neutral. Vocal is the best part of EDSE.
> 
> KZ GR seems so powerful and quite artificial. It is not my cup of tea maybe I didn't run in. It's really heavy, heavier then my CKM99. I changed the filter and found that the eartips are not fit at all. Compare with IM50 and KZ GR I would prefer IM50.
> 
> ...




does your GRs have the vents?.....


----------



## bertwong

shawn71 said:


> does your GRs have the vents?.....


 

 Is that at the side?


----------



## goa604

No he means on those tubes on which ear tips go. Do they have a vent?


----------



## bertwong

goa604 said:


> No he means on those tubes on which ear tips go. Do they have a vent?


 

 Yes. I got one pair of black and one pair of red


----------



## Shawn71

bertwong said:


> Yes. I got one pair of black and one pair of red




Yes,you are correct, they are the removable nozzles but like in the picture, all those black and red nozzles have the vent?......


----------



## bertwong

shawn71 said:


> Yes,you are correct, they are the removable nozzles but like in the picture, all those black and red nozzles have the vent?......


 

 yes both have the vent. Didn't test the difference yet.


----------



## bertwong

bertwong said:


> .
> yes both have the vent. Didn't test the difference yet.


 
  
  i just found it's different from your pic. there's no vent on the nozzles (both black and red)


----------



## Zenbun

How are the kz-lps in terms of bass and vocals and soundstage?
  
 Are they worth it or it's better to save up for something better?
  
 Also, which IEM has the the best/strongest bass?


----------



## Chavecat

bertwong said:


> I got my KZ EDSE and KZ GR. Thanks for everyone who comment about these IEM. EDSE and GR has different sound signature. The EDSE came with some greasy spot. I really like EDSE which is similar to my KZ IE80. Very bright and neutral. Vocal is the best part of EDSE.
> 
> KZ GR seems so powerful and quite artificial. It is not my cup of tea maybe I didn't run in. It's really heavy, heavier then my CKM99. I changed the filter and found that the eartips are not fit at all. Compare with IM50 and KZ GR I would prefer IM50.


 
 How's the bass on them?


----------



## goa604

Zenbun:"Also, which IEM has the the best/strongest bass?"
  

 I wouldnt want to give you the final answer but my KZ R3 are very bassy.
 This is how my eq looks.


----------



## bertwong

chavecat said:


> How's the bass on them?


 
  
 properly don't go for EDSE. The sound is netural similar to SE215 or BA driver. GR is much better than EDSE but seems too aggressive for me. Didn't try the black nozzles so much. The bass is too strong for me. After run in around 6-8 hours the GR the bass seems soften a bit. GR is funny although I prefer EDSE.


----------



## Chavecat

bertwong said:


> properly don't go for EDSE. The sound is netural similar to SE215 or BA driver. GR is much better than EDSE but seems too aggressive for me. Didn't try the black nozzles so much. The bass is too strong for me. After run in around 6-8 hours the GR the bass seems soften a bit. GR is funny although I prefer EDSE.


 
 Damn oh well I'll see how I like them when they get here, if they ever get here. The tracking site hasn't updated in a month.


----------



## mebaali

zenbun said:


> How are the kz-lps in terms of bass and vocals and soundstage?


 
 I have just used LPS for 6 hours since its arrival. Out of the box Clarity is good, highs are bit rolled off , Bass (Mid Bass) is more than average with decent vocals, Soundstage is just about average. From what I have read from other users of these cans, changing pads might help change the sound signature to somewhat neutral (less bassy). I am personally waiting for Takstar Velour pads to try out on these. Headband's clamp force is bit too much for my linking so keeping these on stretch overnight to reduce the tightness.


----------



## CoiL

Got my EDSE. They sound good and neutral... BUT... I couldn`t get proper fit with any tips I have and due to cable I can`t wear them over-ear so easily as with Pistons.
 So, I didn`t bother to mess with finding tips (I think B3 Pro1 white dual-flange would fit perfect but I don`t have them atm). And personally, Piston enclosure sits better in my ears, EDSE tends to move due to thinner/smaller enclosure and if tips aren`t good... not working for me.
 I gave them away to 2 nice women, at least they are happy now


----------



## CoiL

goa604 said:


> No he means on those tubes on which ear tips go. Do they have a vent?


 
 I don`t know if it helps but I think it`s easy to fix - take a thin blade metal-hand-saw and cut line into nozzle from screwing side. It creates vents on both side. Or You can cut under angle to create only one side vent. Depending how deep You cut, sound can change, so it is all about testing. And You can add thin rubber ring between to seal screwing part away from vents.

 I think I will oder GR next and try it myself if it doesn`t have port holes  Actually it is easier for me since I have drill-bench where I can easily drill those holes


----------



## Dasbo

Just got another pair of earphones from "KZ Official store" for 16 bucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The KZ R3 and the KZ-ED1! I hope they perform well.


  
 Link for anybody interested, they're on sale right now!
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mobile-HD-quality-wholesale-spot-with-a-microphone-headset-package-kz-ed1-alloy-wooden-r3/2043626248.html


----------



## goa604

dasbo said:


> Just got another pair of earphones from "KZ Official store" for 16 bucks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice!

 I hope you have more luck with shipping than i do with "KZ Official store".


----------



## Dasbo

goa604 said:


> Nice!
> 
> I hope you have more luck with shipping than i do with "KZ Official store".


 
 What happened to your shipping?


----------



## goa604

dasbo said:


> What happened to your shipping?


 
 Paid KZ EDSE 9th of december. They are still in Beijing.


----------



## Dasbo

goa604 said:


> Paid KZ EDSE 9th of december. They are still in Beijing.


 
 Bad luck, what postal service did you choose? I used chinapost, and ordered on 1st of december and they already left shangai.


----------



## goa604

I dont remember but 27 days have passed so ill ask for a refund. 
 I ordered them for $ 6.86 so now im kinda ****ed until they are on sale again.  ​


----------



## bertwong

coil said:


> Got my EDSE. They sound good and neutral... BUT... I couldn`t get proper fit with any tips I have and due to cable I can`t wear them over-ear so easily as with Pistons.
> So, I didn`t bother to mess with finding tips (I think B3 Pro1 white dual-flange would fit perfect but I don`t have them atm). And personally, Piston enclosure sits better in my ears, EDSE tends to move due to thinner/smaller enclosure and if tips aren`t good... not working for me.
> I gave them away to 2 nice women, at least they are happy now


 
  


coil said:


> I don`t know if it helps but I think it`s easy to fix - take a thin blade metal-hand-saw and cut line into nozzle from screwing side. It creates vents on both side. Or You can cut under angle to create only one side vent. Depending how deep You cut, sound can change, so it is all about testing. And You can add thin rubber ring between to seal screwing part away from vents.
> 
> I think I will oder GR next and try it myself if it doesn`t have port holes  Actually it is easier for me since I have drill-bench where I can easily drill those holes


 
  
 At this price EDSE is really impressive. I have tried all my stock to find our the right tips to fit my ear and taste. dual flange is always my favorite. Did you try the foam ear tips? It's most comfortable but not the best sound.
  
 Wait for your mod GR. I really found it's funny but quite a lot of MSG.


----------



## bertwong

dasbo said:


> Just got another pair of earphones from "KZ Official store" for 16 bucks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rontant

goa604 said:


> I dont remember but 27 days have passed so ill ask for a refund.
> I ordered them for $ 6.86 so now im kinda ****ed until they are on sale again.  ​


 
  
 I ordered my EDSE, GR, ANV and DT3 from different stores in Aliexpress on the same day. Two of them arrived in 7 days but the other two arrived 1.5 months later.  Not their faults though.


----------



## goa604

Im sorry but not my problem either.  KZ R3 had 60 day guarantee and they got here quick, EDSE got 27 days and they havent even left the Beijing.


----------



## Dasbo

goa604 said:


> Im sorry but not my problem either.  KZ R3 had 60 day guarantee and they got here quick, EDSE got 27 days and they havent even left the Beijing.


 
 I'm not saying you shouldn't ask for a refund but, lots of times what happens is that the track it's just not updated until it arrives to your country.
 Could be that.


----------



## ndburley

I had my x1 player turn up and it had for some reason changed tracking numbers in China. It turned up but the original tracking order said it was still in China.


----------



## cowculator

The EDSE seem to garner pretty good review here and it's not bad BUT the new ED 8m simply blows it out of the water. I was afraid the housing might be a little heavy but it has stayed in my ears the whole time and provides a good seal. I am not an audiophile, but a value hunter and this is my new favorite all rounder.


----------



## EISENbricher

cowculator said:


> The EDSE seem to garner pretty good review here and it's not bad BUT the new ED 8m simply blows it out of the water. I was afraid the housing might be a little heavy but it has stayed in my ears the whole time and provides a good seal. I am not an audiophile, but a value hunter and this is my new favorite all rounder.


awesome. My ed8 on the way already haha...


----------



## Dasbo

cowculator said:


> The EDSE seem to garner pretty good review here and it's not bad BUT the new ED 8m simply blows it out of the water. I was afraid the housing might be a little heavy but it has stayed in my ears the whole time and provides a good seal. I am not an audiophile, but a value hunter and this is my new favorite all rounder.


 
 Are u trying to make me buy more earphones? because if it was what you wanted, you got it.


----------



## Ira Delphic

cowculator said:


> The EDSE seem to garner pretty good review here and it's not bad BUT the new ED 8m simply blows it out of the water. I was afraid the housing might be a little heavy but it has stayed in my ears the whole time and provides a good seal. I am not an audiophile, but a value hunter and this is my new favorite all rounder.


 
  
 My ED Special Edition just arrived 15 minutes ago, and* I'm blown away by how detailed/revealing the SQ is!* I'll have to do an AB test with the DT3, but I can tell that the EDSE is far superior to my copy of the ES.  Build is similar to the ES - heavy plug of metal, same brown cable, and L connector - 3.5mm jack. The rear has mesh instead of the holes found on the ES.The EDSE took 5 weeks to arrive - due to the holiday season I reckon. 
  
 The EDSE is further proof that KZ offers great value. My ED 8M tracking is progressing!


----------



## Ira Delphic

*Here's a tip for tracking - China Post.* The AliEpress gives a poor tracking service, bad translation from the link - "China Post Air Mail Website." 
 This is the best tracker to use - provides meaningful translation:
  
 http://track-chinapost.com/


----------



## goa604

ira delphic said:


> My ED Special Edition just arrived 15 minutes ago, and I'm blown away by how detailed/revealing the SQ is! I'll have to do an AB test with the DT3, but I can tell that the EDSE is far superior to my copy of the ES.  Build is similar to the ES - heavy plug of metal, same brown cable, and L connector - 3.5mm jack. The rear has mesh instead of the holes found on the ES.The EDSE took 5 weeks to arrive - due to the holiday season I reckon.
> 
> The EDSE is further proof that KZ offers great value. My ED 8M tracking is progressing!
> 
> *Still less than USD$7! http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6379149428.html?orderId=64877373413062*


 
 That is a snapshot Ira , "This is a snapshot of the product taken when the order was placed,the product may have been edited.
View current product" <- if you click "view current product you will see it is $9.80 
  


ira delphic said:


> *Here's a tip for tracking - China Post.* The AliEpress gives a poor tracking service, bad translation from the link - "China Post Air Mail Website."
> This is the best tracker to use - provides meaningful translation:
> 
> http://track-chinapost.com/


 
 Thank you, this tracking says more but they still are in Beijing.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Thanks! I removed that link of the "snapshot" to avoid confusion.


----------



## Chavecat

goa604 said:


> Thank you, this tracking says more but they still are in Beijing.


 
 At least yours says "Sent to airline", mines stops at "Export Customs Scan"


----------



## 1clearhead

chavecat said:


> At least yours says "Sent to airline", mines stops at "Export Customs Scan"


 
  
 They're taking a listen and checking their awesome sound quality before continuing the shipping process to you. Wow, they're pretty much "show stoppers" everywhere they go.
  
 .....I hope you get them soon!


----------



## aouaslayer

Hi guy!
 I was looking for some good earphones under $40 and these ones got my attention:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED8-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/32258635481.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-original-KZ-ED8M-in-ear-headphones-fever-wire-balance-HIFI-bass-for-mp3-mp4/32258568701.html
  
 Anyone know the differences between KZ ED8 and KZ ED8M?
 In the product details i see that the sensitivity of KD ED8 is 105DB and KZ ED8m is 108DB.
 KDED8 has a frequency range of 18-25khz and KZEDO8M has 5-25khz.
 But anyone know if there is a difference in sound quality and style?


----------



## BigGearHunter

cowculator said:


> The EDSE seem to garner pretty good review here and it's not bad BUT the new ED 8m simply blows it out of the water. I was afraid the housing might be a little heavy but it has stayed in my ears the whole time and provides a good seal. I am not an audiophile, but a value hunter and this is my new favorite all rounder.


 

 Wow, so the ED8 is another winner. Picture me unsurprised at this point! Hey cowculator, any pictures you could share with us please?


----------



## smy1

goa604 said:


> I dont remember but 27 days have passed so ill ask for a refund.
> I ordered them for $ 6.86 so now im kinda ****ed until they are on sale again.  ​




My took like 27 some days and they extended my warranty


----------



## Ira Delphic

aouaslayer said:


> Hi guy!
> I was looking for some good earphones under $40 and these ones got my attention:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED8-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/32258635481.html
> ...


 
  
 The M=microphone. Also, the general rule is to not pay over $10 for any KZ IEM. The only exception is the Micro Ring which is being phased out and price is higher.


----------



## cowculator

> Originally Posted by *BigGearHunter* .
> 
> Wow, so the ED8 is another winner. Picture me unsurprised at this point! Hey cowculator, any pictures you could share with us please?




Here
https://m.imgur.com/JuecBny,RgyYPsA,ERyKGgx,VFm1QJM,nzssnpP,aklki4n
apologies for the poor image. sh**ty photographer with a mediocre iphone 6+ camera. 

They are quite heavy and I feel the strain relief on the cables are not ideal. The stock tips work for me but they have a pair of blue double flange and some regular black ones in various sizes.

Haven't had a real chance to listen to them carefully but off the box, the sound is really good, at least I felt more so that the EDSE I got in the same order.. Bass is there when you need it. Lows and mids are pretty ideal. Highs not so much. Good fun IEM for the price. They are not analytical nor overly detailed, I dun think. 

Good seal for me personally and they dun fall off. I fear it is not meant for long use though, it is heavy. 

I will let others do the reviewing, it is not my domain to voice it. My uses mainly for movies, audiobooks and taking calls. I got the mic version, voice is clear, press one to pause songs, 2 to go back. I seem to be missing the forward button though.


----------



## BigGearHunter

cowculator said:


> Here
> https://m.imgur.com/JuecBny,RgyYPsA,ERyKGgx,VFm1QJM,nzssnpP,aklki4n
> apologies for the poor image. sh**ty photographer with a mediocre iphone 6+ camera.
> 
> ...


 
 What are you apologizing for, man? Those are some sweet shots! I'm really hyped about these now, even though I already have virtually all other KZ IEMs, this will make a fine addition to my collection. Thanks for that, cowculator.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Okay so after reading some of the specs of the ed8's they claim to have a dual magnetic driver. If this is true I wanna hear the first impressions of the people that actually got it cause it seems to good to be true.  I mean I'm here with the KZ DT5's pole editions which have a dual dynamic driver and love the sound lets see what the ED8 can bring to the table.


----------



## goa604

cowculator said:


> Here
> https://m.imgur.com/JuecBny,RgyYPsA,ERyKGgx,VFm1QJM,nzssnpP,aklki4n
> ...


 
 Thank you for the pictures. Those are some sexy cables.


----------



## Dasbo

xtwargodtx said:


> Okay so after reading some of the specs of the ed8's they claim to have a dual magnetic driver. If this is true I wanna hear the first impressions of the people that actually got it cause it seems to good to be true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do the KZ DT5's really comes with a dual dynamic driver?


----------



## Shawn71

dasbo said:


> Do the KZ DT5's really comes with a dual dynamic driver?




Good if someone confirms....long back I had asked same question to one,to check with chinese forums as he said he also knew chinese but no clue......


----------



## Dasbo

shawn71 said:


> Good if someone confirms....long back I had asked same question to one,to check with chinese forums as he said he also knew chinese but no clue......


 
 Well if someday your KZ DT5's definitely broke, remember to come back here and tell us what was inside.


----------



## The Dan of Steel

cowculator said:


> Here
> https://m.imgur.com/JuecBny,RgyYPsA,ERyKGgx,VFm1QJM,nzssnpP,aklki4n
> apologies for the poor image. sh**ty photographer with a mediocre iphone 6+ camera.
> 
> ...


 
 Would you mind sharing a link to the seller you got these from? These have the mic correct? I can't seem to find that version. Thanks.


----------



## Shawn71

dasbo said:


> Well if someday your KZ DT5's definitely broke, remember to come back here and tell us what was inside.




I shall crack it open to find out if I own them already and confirm.......if Im really keen in knowing for its price.


----------



## cowculator

the dan of steel said:


> Would you mind sharing a link to the seller you got these from? These have the mic correct? I can't seem to find that version. Thanks.




Hi, i wish I could be more helpful. I got them directly from Taobao. Are you familiar with shopping there? I would assume an understanding of written Chinese is required. 

Almost any seller there would offer both the Mic and regular model in the check out option. I think the mic version cost around 10-15 RMB more.

I have no idea how it works on aliexpress or any other english version of taobao. 

If u like the taobao link i got from, pls then send me a PM. I'll look up my purchase history.


----------



## Ira Delphic

goa604 said:


> Thank you for the pictures. Those are some sexy cables.


 
  
 It appears to be the same cable as used in the ES and EDSE. It becomes flexible with use, so may eventually go over ear with no problem. The ED8 looks like an updated EDSE.
 Too bad the ED8 is a heavy plug of metal like its predecessors.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> It appears to be the same cable as used in the ES and EDSE. It becomes flexible with use, so may eventually go over ear with no problem. The ED8 looks like an updated EDSE.
> Too bad the ED8 is a heavy plug of metal like its predecessors.


 
 I'd love it if ED8 isn't heavier than Pistons. Piston has just the max weight that I could tolerate.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> I'd love it if ED8 isn't heavier than Pistons. Piston has just the max weight that I could tolerate.


 
  
 Agreed. And I would have preferred plastic. I'd bet the ED8 is heavier than the Pistons.


----------



## smy1

Why does my DT3 right side sounds much louder then my left side why is this?


----------



## EISENbricher

smy1 said:


> Why does my DT3 right side sounds much louder then my left side why is this?


 
 Channel imbalance... must be a manufacturing defect. Best you can do is getting your DT3 replaced. I don't know if KZ offers warranty though.
 Other solution is to stuff some cotton inside right ear tip. But this might attenuate high frequencies.
 Finally just use balance control from your source. Shift the channel towards the left side till the balance is good.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> I'd love it if ED8 isn't heavier than Pistons. Piston has just the max weight that I could tolerate.


 
  
 I love the sound of the EDSE that i just got yesterday, but due to the weight not something that I'd want to wear when walking around and definitely not when working out.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> I love the sound of the EDSE that i just got yesterday, but due to the weight not something that I'd want to wear when walking around and definitely not when working out.


 
 Well that sucks... my EDSE is still on the way but at least it landed it left Beijing and has landed in India now. Shouldn't be much longer till I receive it.
 ED8 is another story though... it's still on its way to Beijing. What happens in Beijing... god knows. Till now all my shipment (3) from China Post stayed in Beijing in range of 3~4 weeks.


----------



## Lawstorant

My EDSE an GR are in Beijing since 24th december... I'm curious where are they going? Straight to Poland or to Germany first (as it's a way bigger market)?


----------



## ndburley

I had all but stopped with the KZ range but have cracked out the kz- Platinum Limited Edition again and you lot talked me into DT3 which are on there way.... you bunch of tempters!


----------



## Dasbo

Ok I've a question, so I bought the KZ-r3, they're supposed to be detachable cable earphones, that's cool and all, but what's the purpose of that if there's no were to buy replacement cables? or there is any store that does?


----------



## B9Scrambler

dasbo said:


> Ok I've a question, so I bought the KZ-r3, they're supposed to be detachable cable earphones, that's cool and all, but what's the purpose of that if there's no were to buy replacement cables? or there is any store that does?




I thought they used standard mmcx connectors. I read somewhere that the Somic mh415 cable works on them, and I'm pretty those are standard mmcx. Maybe someone who has the R3 could verify? My R3 are on the way, so I can't test these theories just yet


----------



## BigGearHunter

I'm wearing the R3 right now, I like them quite a bit. The cable is just fantastic! But to answer your question, I'm sure you could ask the KZ guy for a replacement for a few dollars and there's another IEM whose brand name I'm missing (I think Moxpad) and I recall their cables being compatible.


----------



## Dasbo

b9scrambler said:


> I thought they used standard mmcx connectors. I read somewhere that the Somic mh415 cable works on them, and I'm pretty those are standard mmcx. Maybe someone who has the R3 could verify? My R3 are on the way, so I can't test these theories just yet


 
 Yeah, but how much do these cables actually cost? because if they cost as much as the earphones... unless they're really good cables.


----------



## goa604

I cant confirm if it is mmcx but it does look like it. Most i can do is offer some phone pictures. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


 Hope pics help. 
 btw i hate how dusty everything seems when you photo it.


----------



## EISENbricher

Just received my first EDSE (and first KZ earphone) and I like the sound out of the box. EDSE has good details, enough bass to satisfy me.
 I'm not too sure about higher mids and treble but I need more time on these to build my opinion. Regardless, this earphone offers huge VFM for the $6.8 I paid for it. In addition to this it looks very durable with that metal housing and seemingly strong cable.
  
 Nice job, KZ.


----------



## EISENbricher

Some EDSE eye candy  
 Took some pics.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## anduril

I hope EDSE will not hiss with my Xonar U1 as MEP-933 do.
 BTW - anyone familiar with this effect? The Monoprices hiss while not playing any music while connected to Xonar, but are OK while connected to my laptop audio out. My PX100 and HD-681B are fine on both laptop and Xonar. Really strange.


----------



## Zenbun

Is a bigger driver necessarily means more bass?
  
 Did anyone try these two?
  
 http://tw.taobao.com/item/36548970532.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z10.1-c.w5003-9563417536.12.u3JZXL&scene=taobao_shop
  
 http://tw.taobao.com/item/39777957639.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z10.1-c.w5003-9563417536.11.u3JZXL&scene=taobao_shop
  
 It looks like they have at least a 14mm driver.


----------



## Hisoundfi

zenbun said:


> Is a bigger driver necessarily means more bass?
> 
> Did anyone try these two?
> 
> ...


Size doesn't matter, it's how the driver is used that matters lol

But seriously though, some of the smallest drivers ever made have some of the best bass. The Sony mh1c is a perfect example of this


----------



## B9Scrambler

zenbun said:


> Is a bigger driver necessarily means more bass?
> 
> 
> Did anyone try these two?
> ...


 

 The second link (KZ ANV) can pump out some decent bass when asked for, but in general they are reasonable neutral compared to the other KZ offerings (that I've tried). They do require some additional filters and small bore tips to tame the treble. Once you add that they are a solid all-rounder and one of my fav cheap-o in-ears. Otherwise they are pretty disappointing due to the over-abundance of uncontrolled treble.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Just received my first EDSE (and first KZ earphone) and I like the sound out of the box. EDSE has good details, enough bass to satisfy me.
> I'm not too sure about higher mids and treble but I need more time on these to build my opinion. Regardless, this earphone offers huge VFM for the $6.8 I paid for it. In addition to this it looks very durable with that metal housing and seemingly strong cable.
> 
> Nice job, KZ.


 
  
 Pretty amazing, isn't it? BTW I did some more A B testing, EDSE vs. DT3. The EDSE has more bass and the DT3 slightly better on the high end. They are both fine IEM's and I like the sound of the EDSE a tad more. For fit, the DT3 works for me, as I've said many times, I prefer the lightweight plastic housing. The Pistons btw have more bass than either. Not a flat sound but really fun for some music. I can't say the piston is better, but different. As far as the looks go - and this is completely subjective, I prefer the DT3. The EDSE (and Piston to a lesser extent) are garish.
  
 To make things complicated, I also tested Vsonic GR07 and TTPOD T1E. They are better than the KZ, but only with direct comparison can I hear the shortcomings of the KZ. A more veiled sound - especially on the high end. But if I did a blind test who knows what I'd find, so I can't be 100% objective. The T1E and GR07 reveal shortcomings of the source music, but when music with superior mastering really shine. 
 Some of the music that I have is from CD's that are not mastered properly - compressed and volume too high, so at times the KZ is superior since it hides the flaws!  For new music with very good production characteristics - Actress, Caribou, Panda Bear, Flying Lotus, etc. the GR07 and T1E shine. But the KZ's aren't left in the dust.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Haven't seen these KZ woodies posted (mind you it entirely possible I missed it given the length of this thread):
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kz-calamander-wood-earphones-novelty-dianthuses-reproduction-of-box-flavor-ofdynamism/733393233.html
  
 Not sure what the model is actually called. Look interesting though.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Pretty amazing, isn't it? BTW I did some more A B testing, EDSE vs. DT3. The EDSE has more bass and the DT3 slightly better on the high end. They are both fine IEM's and I like the sound of the EDSE a tad more. For fit, the DT3 works for me, as I've said many times, I prefer the lightweight plastic housing. The Pistons btw have more bass than either. Not a flat sound but really fun for some music. I can't say the piston is better, but different. As far as the looks go - and this is completely subjective, I prefer the DT3. The EDSE (and Piston to a lesser extent) are garish.
> 
> To make things complicated, I also tested Vsonic GR07 and TTPOD T1E. They are better than the KZ, but only with direct comparison can I hear the shortcomings of the KZ. A more veiled sound - especially on the high end. But if I did a blind test who knows what I'd find, so I can't be 100% objective. The T1E and GR07 reveal shortcomings of the source music, but when music with superior mastering really shine.
> Some of the music that I have is from CD's that are not mastered properly - compressed and volume too high, so at times the KZ is superior since it hides the flaws!  For new music with very good production characteristics - Actress, Caribou, Panda Bear, Flying Lotus, etc. the GR07 and T1E shine. But the KZ's aren't left in the dust.



Totally. I've been listening to EDSEs for whole day amd I'm in love!! Alas, I had ordered this pair to gift my friend... And I must, because he knows that. But I'll order one for me without a second thought. I mean, I'm blown away by this sound, nuff said. Digging EDSE. 

If ED8 turns out to be better than this then I'll root for kz forever haha


----------



## bertwong

TTPOD T2 few shots. (not mine) you may interest.
  
 Comment from that post: (before burn in) bass is not strong but vocal is good and details. Ear tips is not so good. Really want to see the different between T2 and EDSE


----------



## EISENbricher

Kz official flagship store has micro rings in stock at really good price!! Too bad min order is 10 pieces.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Totally. I've been listening to EDSEs for whole day amd I'm in love!! Alas, I had ordered this pair to gift my friend... And I must, because he knows that. But I'll order one for me without a second thought. I mean, I'm blown away by this sound, nuff said. Digging EDSE.
> 
> If ED8 turns out to be better than this then I'll root for kz forever haha


 
  
 That should be OK. The ED8 looks like further evolution of the EDSE so better to move forward. Of course knowing KZ they may just be changing the style of the housing and drivers and the rest not updated. The ED8 may not be much better than the EDSE but I highly doubt it will be worse!


----------



## anduril

anduril said:


> <cut>
> I hope EDSE will not hiss with my Xonar U1 as MEP-933 do.
> BTW - anyone familiar with this effect? The Monoprices hiss while not playing any music while connected to Xonar, but are OK while connected to my laptop audio out. My PX100 and HD-681B are fine on both laptop and Xonar. Really strange.


 
  
 If anyone is curious - good read: http://headphones.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?p=25050#p25050
 TL;DR - IEMs directly hooked to a desktop DAC is not a good combo. Either go bigger cans, use a DAP instead or add an amp inbetween.


----------



## ilikeiem

Last year, I bought KZ-ED8 from kz earphone official flagship store (aliexpress.com). It was on sales for $9.10. Sound quality is amazing for such a low price. Now I like it much more than KZ-EDSE. With good seal, bass is very strong.


----------



## Dasbo

ilikeiem said:


> Last year, I bought KZ-ED8 from kz earphone official flagship store (aliexpress.com). It was on sales for $9.10. Sound quality is amazing for such a low price. Now I like it much more than KZ-EDSE. With good seal, bass is very strong.


 
 ******* ****, Why didn't I bought it why I could?
 Now I've to wait till the next sale, lol.


----------



## BigGearHunter

ilikeiem said:


> Last year, I bought KZ-ED8 from kz earphone official flagship store (aliexpress.com). It was on sales for $9.10. Sound quality is amazing for such a low price. Now I like it much more than KZ-EDSE. With good seal, bass is very strong.


 

 People keep raving about these and claiming that they're even better than the EDSE. Could the ED8 be the new KZ king? Thankfully mine are on the way, so I'll find out within the next month.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> Last year, I bought KZ-ED8 from kz earphone official flagship store (aliexpress.com). It was on sales for $9.10. Sound quality is amazing for such a low price. Now I like it much more than KZ-EDSE. With good seal, bass is very strong.


 
  
 The ED8 didn't ship in 2014 afaik. Can you post a pic?
 I see this is your first post.  Are you affiliated with the KZ store?


----------



## goa604

ira delphic said:


> The ED8 didn't ship in 2014 afaik. Can you post a pic?
> I see this is your first post.  Are you affiliated with the KZ store?


 
 Im wondering if his and this http://goo.gl/JgGKMt posts are fake.


----------



## cowculator

They shipped it after Christmas in small batches, mainly in the mainland. If you are outside the country, the fastest would be after the new year. But it's true that they were shipped "last year".


----------



## EISENbricher

I'm desperately trying to convince KZ store guy to list KZ Micro Ring for retail sell. (Currently listed only for wholesale)
 If they do then we can get it no more than ~$14!


----------



## ilikeiem

biggearhunter said:


> People keep raving about these and claiming that they're even better than the EDSE. Could the ED8 be the new KZ king? Thankfully mine are on the way, so I'll find out within the next month.


 
 No doubt, sound quality of KZ-ED8 is a lot better than KZ-EDSE. I have a lot of KZ's IEMs. I like KZ-ED8 the most


----------



## ilikeiem

dasbo said:


> ******* ****, Why didn't I bought it why I could?
> Now I've to wait till the next sale, lol.


 
 It's $10 right now. Just grab it u will love it.


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> The ED8 didn't ship in 2014 afaik. Can you post a pic?
> I see this is your first post.  Are you affiliated with the KZ store?


 
 Coz I'm a new member of head-fi,  head-fi doesn't allow me to post pic right now. I left short feedback on kz earphone official flagship store. Here is a link to my ED8's photo.
  
http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/UT8UEY9XjhXXXagOFbX3.jpg
http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/UT8Qgj9XcVdXXagOFbXo.jpg


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> It's $10 right now. Just grab it u will love it.


 
 Where is it still at $10? Link link?


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> The ED8 didn't ship in 2014 afaik. Can you post a pic?
> I see this is your first post.  Are you affiliated with the KZ store?


 
 Since I'm new member. I try to post link and photo of KZ-ED8 but it's not success. LOL. You can visit kz earphone official flagship store. I left short feedback on ED8 with 2 photos


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Where is it still at $10? Link link?


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed8-Music-enthusiast-headphones-Phone-headset-Fidelity-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset-kz-headphones/1380688_32254708005.html


----------



## anduril

eisenbricher said:


> Where is it still at $10? Link link?


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed8-Music-enthusiast-headphones-Phone-headset-Fidelity-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset-kz-headphones/1380688_32254708005.html
  
 Much tempted as the price is very good. Will test the EDSE I'm getting today and then decide.
 But maybe I'd like something which sounds a bit different (GR?) than just a bit better.


----------



## Dasbo

ilikeiem said:


> It's $10 right now. Just grab it u will love it.


 
 Yeah but I kinda like for more reviews first


----------



## asri696

hi
  
 i'm kinda new here but i've had experiences with a couple of iems two dual dynamic drivers which i absolutely love the clarity and staging. i read on the aliexpress store that this ed8 is a dual driver unit. is this true? anyone knows?


----------



## Dasbo

asri696 said:


> hi
> 
> i'm kinda new here but i've had experiences with a couple of iems two dual dynamic drivers which i absolutely love the clarity and staging. i read on the aliexpress store that this ed8 is a dual driver unit. is this true? anyone knows?


 
 Who ever said the ed8 was a dual driver iem?


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed8-Music-enthusiast-headphones-Phone-headset-Fidelity-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset-kz-headphones/1380688_32254708005.html







anduril said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed8-Music-enthusiast-headphones-Phone-headset-Fidelity-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset-kz-headphones/1380688_32254708005.html
> 
> Much tempted as the price is very good. Will test the EDSE I'm getting today and then decide.
> But maybe I'd like something which sounds a bit different (GR?) than just a bit better.




Thanks. My ED8 bought in December sale will arrive soon. Thinking of buying more unit if it turns out good.


----------



## smy1

what is the christmas lottery?
  
 oh nvm it expired


----------



## Ira Delphic

smy1 said:


> what is the christmas lottery?
> 
> oh nvm it expired


 
  
 I was one of the winners - should be getting TWO ED8 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




soon. If the ED8 has the same tuning, SQ of the EDSE / DT3 - I'll be selling one here to a forum member.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dasbo said:


> Who ever said the ed8 was a dual driver iem?


 
  
 In this link - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed8-Music-enthusiast-headphones-Phone-headset-Fidelity-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset-kz-headphones/1380688_32254708005.html
  
 "Built-in *dual* 360-degree magnetic voice coil"
  
 That does not mean two drivers. I wouldn't pay much attention to the marketing gibberish on the KZ store site.


----------



## slowpickr

ira delphic said:


> In this link - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed8-Music-enthusiast-headphones-Phone-headset-Fidelity-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset-kz-headphones/1380688_32254708005.html
> 
> "Built-in *dual* 360-degree magnetic voice coil"
> 
> That does not mean two drivers. I wouldn't pay much attention to the marketing gibberish on the KZ store site.


 
  
 Hmmm.  Right in under the picture it states "built-in 360-degree magnetic voice coil".  Wonder if "dual" is a mistake on the picture?


----------



## Ira Delphic

slowpickr said:


> Hmmm.  Right in under the picture it states "built-in 360-degree magnetic voice coil".  Wonder if "dual" is a mistake on the picture?


 
  
 I'm sure there are forum members here that would help the KZ store with translation to English in exchange for  KZ's!
 But the Google translated text at times is fun to read, and in the end the SQ is what matters most.
  
 I'm listening to music with the EDSE right now - song Nara by the band alt-J. Sibilant for sure, but the highs are crisp and defined, and the bass is quite good. It doesn't get much better than this.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> I'm sure there are forum members here that would help the KZ store with translation to English in exchange for  KZ's!
> But the Google translated text at times is fun to read, and in the end the SQ is what matters most.
> 
> I'm listening to music with the EDSE right now - song Nara by the band alt-J. Sibilant for sure, but the highs are crisp and defined, and the bass is quite good. It doesn't get much better than this.


 
 Also listening with EDSEs  
 Deja Vu by Sonamoo... the group made its debut not more than 2-3 weeks. Already loving the song (and group).
  
 Oh btw small Sony Hybrids really improved the sound and fit for me. No sibilance at all with a perfect fit.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ira delphic said:


> I'm sure there are forum members here that would help the KZ store with translation to English in exchange for  KZ's!




That's what I did for NarMoo . Bought the S1 and loved it. Since I couldn't afford the R1M at the time, I offered to edit their site's content in exchange for an R1M. 

A win for both of us!


----------



## smy1

ira delphic said:


> I was one of the winners - should be getting TWO ED8
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 how do you win?


----------



## Ira Delphic

smy1 said:


> how do you win?


 
  
 The order number had to contain a certain numbers. I needed a cable for a V-Moda XS - that didn't win. The second order did - the ED8 and R1. I believe the odds were pretty good. Like 1 in 3 of winning.


----------



## Dasbo

ira delphic said:


> The order number had to contain a certain numbers. I needed a cable for a V-Moda XS - that didn't win. The second order did - the ED8 and R1. I believe the odds were pretty good. Like 1 in 3 of winning.


 
 I made 3 orders and none of them win, lol.


----------



## ilikeiem

For those who own KZ-ED8, you will see that there is only 1 pair of spiral eartips. There are whirlwind eartips which is work very well with KZ-ED8. You can buy them from Tennmak Technology Co., Ltd(Aliexpress) Store No.1183804  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-silicon-whirlwind-eartips-earbuds-mushroom-ear-cushion-with-double-colors-wholesale-for-Munitio-NOCS/1183804_1689797619.html
  
 Here are my sample photos. White eartips on the left are whirlwind eartips.  The blue pair is bundled with KZ-ED8


  
 I really like whirlwind eartips a lot. VERY GOOD SOUND


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> For those who own KZ-ED8, you will see that there is only 1 pair of spiral eartips. There are whirlwind eartips which is work very well with KZ-ED8. You can buy them from Tennmak Technology Co., Ltd(Aliexpress) Store No.1183804  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-silicon-whirlwind-eartips-earbuds-mushroom-ear-cushion-with-double-colors-wholesale-for-Munitio-NOCS/1183804_1689797619.html
> 
> ...White eartips on the left are whirlwind eartips.  The blue pair is bundled with KZ-ED8
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good I wanted to try those whirlwind.


----------



## Dasbo

ilikeiem said:


> For those who own KZ-ED8, you will see that there is only 1 pair of spiral eartips. There are whirlwind eartips which is work very well with KZ-ED8. You can buy them from Tennmak Technology Co., Ltd(Aliexpress) Store No.1183804  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-silicon-whirlwind-eartips-earbuds-mushroom-ear-cushion-with-double-colors-wholesale-for-Munitio-NOCS/1183804_1689797619.html
> 
> Here are my sample photos. White eartips on the left are whirlwind eartips.  The blue pair is bundled with KZ-ED8
> 
> ...


 
 Why don't you make a review?


----------



## Charliemotta

Too bad you can't just get all 12 medium instead of S-M-L. (4 ea)


----------



## asri696

ira delphic said:


> In this link - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed8-Music-enthusiast-headphones-Phone-headset-Fidelity-headphones-Andrews-universal-headset-kz-headphones/1380688_32254708005.html
> 
> "Built-in *dual* 360-degree magnetic voice coil"
> 
> That does not mean two drivers. I wouldn't pay much attention to the marketing gibberish on the KZ store site.


 
 thanks man that clears it up


----------



## FreeShah

I could not find EDSE for buy, does anyone know any link to get it?


----------



## Dasbo

freeshah said:


> I could not find EDSE for buy, does anyone know any link to get it?


 
 There you go.
 http://aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-official-flagship-store-selling-cheap-cell-phone-headset-ear-headphones-sound-bass-HIFI/1380688_2042672476.html


----------



## anduril

freeshah said:


> I could not find EDSE for buy, does anyone know any link to get it?


 
 No mic: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headset-music-headset-phone-headset-bass-headphone-free-shipping/1380688_1987244299.html
 Mic: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Ear-Headphones-kz-ed-Special-Edition-low-microphone-volume-sales/1380688_2040486474.html
 No discount right now unfortunately, I got them for <$7.
  
 I took the one with the mic, but the problem is if you wear them over the ears, the mic is almost useless as it hangs just under your ear.


----------



## Ira Delphic

anduril said:


> No mic: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headset-music-headset-phone-headset-bass-headphone-free-shipping/1380688_1987244299.html
> Mic: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Ear-Headphones-kz-ed-Special-Edition-low-microphone-volume-sales/1380688_2040486474.html
> No discount right now unfortunately, I got them for <$7.
> 
> I took the one with the mic, but the problem is if you wear them over the ears, the mic is almost useless as it hangs just under your ear.


 
  
 Also the I've read about problems with KZ and mic - higher failure rate, so don't get the mic unless you really need it. Of if you use Android consider the Xiaomi Piston for a very reliable mic that works great.


----------



## FreeShah

@Dasbo and @anduril thanks for help. I did not know ED2 is similar to EDSE  
  
  
 Quote:


ira delphic said:


> Also the I've read about problems with KZ and mic - higher failure rate, so don't get the mic unless you really need it. Of if you use Android consider the Xiaomi Piston for a very reliable mic that works great.


 
 It's bad new, I wish to get mic version. 
  
 I'll buy ED8 and ED2 but the matter is Mic. Because I want to use one of them with my Gioone 3. Anyway will decide.


----------



## aouaslayer

Anyone know if these kz earphones are good for a basshead?
 If not, which cheap one would you indicate?
 Thanks


----------



## ndburley

aouaslayer said:


> Anyone know if these kz earphones are good for a basshead?
> If not, which cheap one would you indicate?
> Thanks


 
 Not found a KZ to beat the Soundmagic E10 for a bass head yet but KZ do have a decent range of headphones...i have the GR, Platinum Limited editions and DT3 all good may I add but just my personal input


----------



## goa604

aouaslayer said:


> Anyone know if these kz earphones are good for a basshead?
> If not, which cheap one would you indicate?
> Thanks


 
 KZ R3 maybe.


----------



## ilikeiem

aouaslayer said:


> Anyone know if these kz earphones are good for a basshead?
> If not, which cheap one would you indicate?
> Thanks


 
 That would be KZ-RS1. but in general,  bass of KZ-ED8 is good enough and overall sound quality is A LOT BETTER


----------



## ilikeiem

The more I listen to KZ-ED8 the more I love it.  Very good soundstage for such a low price. Feel like listening to the music in a dance pub. Party People!!! Give it a try.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> The more I listen to KZ-ED8 the more I love it.  Very good soundstage for such a low price. Feel like listening to the music in a dance pub. Party People!!! Give it a try.


 
 Two ED8 (red and blue) on the way 
 btw is ED8m any different??


----------



## anduril

I love my EDSE!
 Except 30 seconds after taking them out of the box my 1.5yo son plugged the minijack all the way inside one of the tips. Good job!
 Fortunately just pushed the "grill" inside, I was able to get it out and repair it.
  
 I think I would be totally shocked by the SQ if I received them before my MEP-933... but now the difference between the two is not that big.
  
 And yeah, they hiss on my Xonar even more than Monoprice IEMs (even lower impedance I guess)


----------



## EISENbricher

Wow What I'm loving EDSE more than my Tenore, Havi and T1Es. Is this weird? Especially loving the low end of EDSE. Rich and punchy. 

I dunno how it will go for long term. But one thing for sure, these are the best sounding out of the box, so far. Others required burn in period. EDSE also getting better but the initial impression was fantastic as well. 

Thank you ppl who created and maintained this thread.


----------



## slowpickr

Just noticed there is a "2015 KZ ED8S" on Ali. Typo maybe?


----------



## ilikeiem

My beautiful KZ's headphone, GK-LP2.  Does it look like V-MODA crossfade M-100?


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Wow What I'm loving EDSE more than my Tenore, Havi and T1Es. Is this weird? Especially loving the low end of EDSE. Rich and punchy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you would like to get the most out of KZ-EDSE, here is how they burn in KZ IEM. Please use google to translate it into english.
 http://www.kzearphone.com/baoji.html
  
 There are also white noise and lossless music recommendation there. Classical music would be a great choice away. Good luck


----------



## anduril

> Originally Posted by *ilikeiem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> how they burn in


 
 Assuming burn-in is real, I'm not sure using specific sounds for it is any better than just the music you like listening to.


----------



## Dasbo

anduril said:


> Assuming burn-in is real


 
 Oh boy, here we go...


----------



## Charliemotta

Won't the fire wreck them??    ♫


----------



## goa604

anduril said:


> ...
> 
> And yeah, they hiss on my Xonar even more than Monoprice IEMs (even lower impedance I guess)


 
 Wouldnt this solve your problems? http://goo.gl/o7VLfy


----------



## bhazard

ilikeiem said:


> My beautiful KZ's headphone, GK-LP2.  Does it look like V-MODA crossfade M-100?


 
 How's it sound?


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> My beautiful KZ's headphone, GK-LP2.  Does it look like V-MODA crossfade M-100?


 
 Looks like? It's complete ripoff of V-Modas xD
 I hope KZ designs its own headphone in future.


----------



## EISENbricher

ED8 for just $8.40!!
  
 http://ru.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED8M-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/1246446_32256027095.html


----------



## ilikeiem

bhazard said:


> How's it sound?


 
 On this KZ impressions thread, I would say it has good sound for the price $55


----------



## anduril

> anduril said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming burn-in is real
> ...


 
 Bad wording. Intuitively, for anything mechanical some "breaking in" period is sensible.
 I mostly meant the kind of music used for that.


----------



## anduril

> > Originally Posted by *anduril*
> >
> >
> >
> ...


 
 It might, thanks! I will try to build it, should be a bit cheaper.


----------



## FreeShah

I ordered edse andd ed8 2 days ago but they did not ship it yet. Bu the way lp2 looks hot. You may wrrite some critics.


----------



## EISENbricher

freeshah said:


> I ordered edse andd ed8 2 days ago but they did not ship it yet. Bu the way lp2 looks hot. You may wrrite some critics.


 
 Same here... ED8 that I had ordered 2 days ago is yet to be shipped. But my EDSE (Order 4days ago) did ship out quick.


----------



## FreeShah

eisenbricher said:


> Same here... ED8 that I had ordered 2 days ago is yet to be shipped. But my EDSE (Order 4days ago) did ship out quick.


 
 So, problem is about ED8. Hmm, I should not buy them together.


----------



## goa604

KZ EDSE arrived.


----------



## Lawstorant

Aww yiss

  
 Anyway, EDSE are just great out of the box. GR sound better with red nozzles but nvm, will seee after burning (is 40 hours of white noise ok?). Then I'll burn EDSE for some time.
  
 For now EDSE>SoundMagic PL50
                  7$ vs 70$
  
  
 Sadly, my EDSE have only 3 pins on jack  I'll definitely go or those whirlwind tips.


----------



## Dasbo

lawstorant said:


> Aww yiss
> 
> 
> Anyway, EDSE are just great out of the box. GR sound better with red nozzles but nvm, will seee after burning (is 40 hours of white noise ok?). Then I'll burn EDSE for some time.
> ...


 
 Does your GR have a hole on that red stuff?


----------



## Lawstorant

Ordered 17th December
  
 Sadly - they don't...


----------



## anduril

> Originally Posted by *Lawstorant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Ordered 17th December
> 
> Sadly - they don't...


 
 Drilling time! 
  


lawstorant said:


> Sadly, my EDSE have only 3 pins on jack  I'll definitely go or those whirlwind tips.


 
 If there's no mic it's normal for it to have 3 wires... correct me if I'm wrong, but my EDSE with mic have 4.
  
 BTW - can anyone please check if there is a CE mark on the box?
 I can't as I already threw away mine.


----------



## Lawstorant

None of the skill nor equipment, to drill as precisely as I should, in order to keep everything intact.
  


> BTW - can anyone please check if there is a CE mark on the box? I can't as I already threw away mine.


 
 There is none - you'd better don't swallow them 
  


> If there's no mic it's normal for it to have 3 wires... correct me if I'm wrong, but my EDSE with mic have 4.


 
 EDSE are said to have four pins, to improve separation. My friend got four pin version about two months ago, but to be honest - I can't notice any diffrence, stil...


----------



## anduril

lawstorant said:


> None of the skill nor equipment, to drill as precisely as I should, in order to keep everything intact.
> 
> There is none - you'd better don't swallow them
> 
> EDSE are said to have four pins, to improve separation. My friend got four pin version about two months ago, but to be honest - I can't notice any diffrence, stil...


 

 Thanks for the info.
  
 About the number of jack contacts... photo from "KZ official" store (EDSE, no mic):

  
 Also the description from the product page is crap. +, -, +, -... where is the microphone contact??


----------



## Lawstorant

Yeah weird, but:
 http://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-official-flagship-store-selling-cheap-cell-phone-headset-ear-headphones-sound-bass-HIFI/1380688_2042672476.html
  
 And I saw that four pin jack on EDSE in flesh so it exists. Whatever...
  
 Bonus:

  
 Yup!


----------



## Ira Delphic

My EDSE has three pins. And KZ  ES four pins. Sound on the EDSE is much better than the ES.
  
 I highly doubt the "balance 4 plug design" makes any difference in SQ.


----------



## bhazard

ira delphic said:


> My EDSE has three pins. And KZ  ES four pins. Sound on the EDSE is much better than the ES.
> 
> I highly doubt the "balance 4 plug design" makes any difference in SQ.


 
 It does if you have a balanced amp like the HM 901 that can accept it, and almost no one does.


----------



## EISENbricher

lawstorant said:


> Aww yiss
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


EDSE is amazing, isn't it?


----------



## funkoid

I'm looking to try my first pair of KZ, the cheaper the better really.  I'm leaning toward the R3's as I've not tried any wood based earphones as of yet. 
  
 Signature wise I'm a big fan of the Superlux EVOs and 668B, I'm really enjoying the VSD3s and love the signature of the Havii B3 Pro MK1, just a shame about the fit being a PITA!


----------



## Wokei

funkoid said:


> I'm looking to try my first pair of KZ, the cheaper the better really.  I'm leaning toward the R3's as I've not tried any wood based earphones as of yet.
> 
> Signature wise I'm a big fan of the Superlux EVOs and 668B, I'm really enjoying the VSD3s and love the signature of the Havii B3 Pro MK1, just a shame about the fit being a PITA!




IMHO ....get KZ EDSE , Micro Ring and ANV ( me personal prefrence) ....also many members here have R3 which they reported to be bass cannon but me bought them early 2013 which has a balanced sound sig with copious amount of clarity and bass light too .....

FYI ..also have 668B ..cheers


----------



## funkoid

Are they just as good/different to the VSD3s, e.g. worth $10 for a bit of fun? Conscious I'm starting to burn money!!


----------



## Wokei

funkoid said:


> Are they just as good/different to the VSD3s, e.g. worth $10 for a bit of fun? Conscious I'm starting to burn money!!




Sorry ...dont have VSD3s ....but for less than $10 a pop .......hell yeah there are damm good on price n built quality and most of all .....the wallet can breathe easy ...muahahahahaa


----------



## EISENbricher

ED8 is now receiving very positive reviews on AliExpress. Good sign... can't want to receive my ED8.


----------



## funkoid

eisenbricher said:


> Just received my first EDSE (and first KZ earphone) and I like the sound out of the box. EDSE has good details, enough bass to satisfy me.
> I'm not too sure about higher mids and treble but I need more time on these to build my opinion. Regardless, this earphone offers huge VFM for the $6.8 I paid for it. In addition to this it looks very durable with that metal housing and seemingly strong cable.
> 
> Nice job, KZ.




Where did you pick them up for $6.80?


----------



## EISENbricher

funkoid said:


> Where did you pick them up for $6.80?


 
 At KZ Official Flagship Store on AliExpress, during the month of December. They had a great sale running for a month. Now they are available for lowest price here : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headset-music-headset-phone-headset-bass-headphone-free-shipping/1246446_32236109731.html
  
 Good luck.. FYI same store has ED8 listed for $8.40. Go get that one!


----------



## funkoid

eisenbricher said:


> Good luck.. FYI same store has ED8 listed for $8.40. Go get that one!


 
  
 I hate all of you, I really do 
  
 EDSE and ED8's on the way.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> IMHO ....get KZ EDSE , Micro Ring and ANV ( me personal prefrence) ....also many members here have R3 which they reported to be bass cannon but me bought them early 2013 which has a balanced sound sig with copious amount of clarity and bass light too .....
> 
> FYI ..also have 668B ..cheers




I'll second the Micro Ring and ANV (with Sony Hybrids and added filter). They are fantastic. 

I have the R3 on the way. Hopefully it will arrive within the next couple weeks 

The VSD3 is technically better than all of the above mentioned KZ iems, however I still prefer the Micro Ring. After expanding my iems collection to include more balanced and treble focused options, I find the VSD3 to have too much midbass for my personal preferences.


----------



## EISENbricher

funkoid said:


> I hate all of you, I really do
> 
> EDSE and ED8's on the way.


 
 Hahahah don't worry KZ isn't heavy on your pocket as others. It's the lightest one actually


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> I'll second the Micro Ring and ANV (with Sony Hybrids and added filter). They are fantastic.
> 
> I have the R3 on the way. Hopefully it will arrive within the next couple weeks
> 
> ...


 
 Hi B9Scrambler, have you compared Micro Ring with mainstream KZs such as EDSE or DT3?


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Hi B9Scrambler, have you compared Micro Ring with mainstream KZs such as EDSE or DT3?




Yup, the EDse which I also have. 

The Micro Ring doesn't quite reach the same level of bass extension (although its is close, very close), but it sounds more refined overall. I find the EDse is a too splashy/uncontrolled up top in comparison. The Micro Ring also has more forward mids and both better detailing and soundstage. The EDse wipes the floor with it in style and build quality though.

Don't get me wrong, I like the EDse a lot, but every time I use it it reminds of a lesser version of the Clarity One EB110 (which I quite like and use all the time). They are very, very similar imo and since the EB110 can be found for around the same price.....


----------



## Dasbo

b9scrambler said:


> Yup, the EDse which I also have.
> 
> The Micro Ring doesn't quite reach the same level of bass extension (although its is close, very close), but it sounds more refined overall. I find the EDse is a too splashy/uncontrolled up top in comparison. The Micro Ring also has more forward mids and both better detailing and soundstage. The EDse wipes the floor with it in style and build quality though.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like the EDse a lot, but every time I use it it reminds of a lesser version of the Clarity One EB110 (which I quite like and use all the time). They are very, very similar imo and since the EB110 can be found for around the same price.....


 
 So where we can get the micro rings for cheap?


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> At KZ Official Flagship Store on AliExpress, during the month of December. They had a great sale running for a month. Now they are available for lowest price here : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headset-music-headset-phone-headset-bass-headphone-free-shipping/1246446_32236109731.html
> 
> Good luck.. FYI same store has ED8 listed for $8.40. Go get that one!


 
  
 I got it for around the same price, under $7. Very fine build quality, metal housing, cable, plug, and of course the SQ!
  
 By the way I recently got the Soundsoul S-018  - another low cost IEM - made in China and possibly designed there. The SQ - bass is very good. The sound overall is arguably better than the EDSE, but the cable is poor - too rigid and microphonics issues, and the plastic housing feels kind of cheap. I wish it had the build of the KZ. I may sell the Soundsoul S-018 just for that reason.


----------



## funkoid

ira delphic said:


> By the way I recently got the Soundsoul S-018  - another low cost IEM - made in China and possibly designed there. The SQ - bass is very good. The sound overall is arguably better than the EDSE, but the cable is poor - too rigid and microphonics issues, and the plastic housing feels kind of cheap. I wish it had the build of the KZ. I may sell the Soundsoul S-018 just for that reason.




They were on my list but even the manufacturer wouldn't ship them to the uk!


----------



## FreeShah

funkoid said:


> They were on my list but even the manufacturer wouldn't ship them to the uk!


 
 Same for me. They dont ship to Turkey to. :/


----------



## B9Scrambler

dasbo said:


> So where we can get the micro rings for cheap?




www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html

This is the cheapest I've seen them in a while (16 USD).


----------



## EISENbricher

Wait for Micro Rings. I'm following up with KZ Flagship's people to enlist Micro Ring for cheaper price. They currently have it, for $13.5/piece but you need to buy 10 qty.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> I got it for around the same price, under $7. Very fine build quality, metal housing, cable, plug, and of course the SQ!
> 
> By the way I recently got the Soundsoul S-018  - another low cost IEM - made in China and possibly designed there. The SQ - bass is very good. The sound overall is arguably better than the EDSE, but the cable is poor - too rigid and microphonics issues, and the plastic housing feels kind of cheap. I wish it had the build of the KZ. I may sell the Soundsoul S-018 just for that reason.


 
 Ira you received ED8??? Is it better than EDSE?? IF yes then wowww!!!


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Yup, the EDse which I also have.
> 
> The Micro Ring doesn't quite reach the same level of bass extension (although its is close, very close), but it sounds more refined overall. I find the EDse is a too splashy/uncontrolled up top in comparison. The Micro Ring also has more forward mids and both better detailing and soundstage. The EDse wipes the floor with it in style and build quality though.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like the EDse a lot, but every time I use it it reminds of a lesser version of the Clarity One EB110 (which I quite like and use all the time). They are very, very similar imo and since the EB110 can be found for around the same price.....


 
 Great... thanks for answering my question : )


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Ira you received ED8??? Is it better than EDSE?? IF yes then wowww!!!


 
  
 The ED8 still tracking as "sent to airline" but shouldn't be long. 
  
 I also got the R1 - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-r1-sports-headphones-bass-headphones-HIFI-headphones-sound-bass-music-headphones/2046165474.html
  
 Blue and the lower cable white. Nasty looking but @Hisoundfi said it was very good - and I need something smallish for sleeping.
 The red/black looks much nicer but the blue was only $6.
  
 Any idea if  R1 and an R1 Sports are unique models?


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> The ED8 still tracking as "sent to airline" but shouldn't be long.
> 
> I also got the R1 - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-r1-sports-headphones-bass-headphones-HIFI-headphones-sound-bass-music-headphones/2046165474.html
> 
> ...


 
 Mine has been 'Dispatched'. As per my previous estimates I might have to wait at least 2 weeks more. 
  
 That R1 looks like a complete ripoff of Sennheiser CX300 II, in blue color lol


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Mine has been 'Dispatched'. As per my previous estimates I might have to wait at least 2 weeks more.
> 
> That R1 looks like a complete ripoff of Sennheiser CX300 II, in blue color lol


 
  
 Yup I notice a slight similarity
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





! I hope the SQ is good.


----------



## Dasbo

So we there's still no word about the ED-8 sq?


----------



## smy1

ndburley said:


> Not found a KZ to beat the Soundmagic E10 for a bass head yet but KZ do have a decent range of headphones...i have the GR, Platinum Limited editions and DT3 all good may I add but just my personal input




Dt3 has alot of bass


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> I got the KZ R1 today.
> 
> It's awesome.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any update on the SQ?


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> Any update on the SQ?


I'll have a session with them tonight. Lately I've had so many gears come in there's not too much time to spend with each one


----------



## dilidani

Would be awesome to get some fresh comments on this little R1. Me considering to burn another $10 on an IEM, have to choose between KZ R1 and Philips SHE3590. They are both so little, so cheap and can be good to sleep with haha


----------



## EISENbricher

dilidani said:


> Would be awesome to get some fresh comments on this little R1. Me considering to burn another $10 on an IEM, have to choose between KZ R1 and Philips SHE3590. They are both so little, so cheap and can be good to sleep with haha


Why R1? Why not EDSE or ED8?


----------



## dilidani

EDSE and DT3 are on their way already! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ED8 is ugly for me. just read the reply of @Ira Delphic about considering it and got curious! Btw http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/kz-r1-headphones-bass-headset-phone-headset-music-earphone-fashion-headphone-headphone-support-3-5MM-interface/2054948020.html?recommendVersion=1 says it has Senn IE60 drivers?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 "Sennheiser IE60 same paragraph diaphragm"


----------



## EISENbricher

dilidani said:


> EDSE and DT3 are on their way already! :etysmile:  ED8 is ugly for me. just read the reply of @Ira Delphic
> about considering it and got curious! Btw http://ru.aliexpress.com/item/kz-r1-headphones-bass-headset-phone-headset-music-earphone-fashion-headphone-headphone-support-3-5MM-interface/2054948020.html?recommendVersion=1 says it has Senn IE60 drivers?! :eek:
> 
> "Sennheiser IE60 same paragraph diaphragm"



Ahh sq is imp to you or looks lol... Btw ed8 looks awesome in black housing. Also not everything to be believed in a kz's description... They say on ed8 page that they have same drivers as AKG (god knows which one exactly)


----------



## anduril

dilidani said:


> EDSE and DT3 are on their way already!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They also say:


----------



## ilikeiem

Did anyone notice that the older you are the harder to hear high pitch?  I guess some model are more suitable for older ear like KZ-DT5 poletone but too bad I feel that DT5 poletone's treble is really annoying.  Does anyone feel the same?


----------



## Wokei

ilikeiem said:


> Did anyone notice that the older you are the harder to hear high pitch?  I guess some model are more suitable for older ear like KZ-DT5 poletone but too bad I feel that DT5 poletone's treble is really annoying.  Does anyone feel the same?




DT5 treble is annoying how...? Too peaky or harsh...me don't have them but would like to know what sound Sig..Thanks


----------



## anduril

ilikeiem said:


> Did anyone notice that the older you are the harder to hear high pitch?  I guess some model are more suitable for older ear like KZ-DT5 poletone but too bad I feel that DT5 poletone's treble is really annoying.  Does anyone feel the same?


 
 Annoying my wife with a ~17kHz mosquito ringtone on my phone... good times  and she's just 2 years older.
 BTW - it doesn't only depend on age, but that too.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/580143/the-loudest-headphone/15#post_7890481
  
 You might want to try this regardless of your equipment and hearing:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial


----------



## ndburley

DT3 turned up today, I am impressed for the price, lovely amount of bass and fit lovely in the ear. 

  
 Oh and I don't use my cassette player to listen to music but cannot bring myself to bin it.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ndburley said:


> DT3 turned up today, I am impressed for the price, lovely amount of bass and fit lovely in the ear.
> 
> 
> Oh and I don't use my cassette player to listen to music but cannot bring myself to bin it.


 
  
 Good luck comparing SQ to your EDSE! Both nice, just slightly different sound signature. I'm still not sure which I prefer.
 Fit - I also like it.


----------



## ndburley

ira delphic said:


> Good luck comparing SQ to your EDSE! Both nice, just slightly different sound signature. I'm still not sure which I prefer.
> Fit - I also like it.


 
 I already lean to the DT3 as they are not as heavy and fit better in my ears I think. I can find the EDSE a little harsh sometimes on types of music at the top end. I have already tested this on the DT3 and find it better. This could just be the pairing I have with my XDuoo X1 and the DT3 but its working fairly good with the player better so far. I have stopped using my phone as using my X1 proves to belt out better SQ and the X2 has just been released for $55!! sorted! Anyway DT3 better I think at this time...will burn them in a bit


----------



## EISENbricher

ndburley said:


> DT3 turned up today, I am impressed for the price, lovely amount of bass and fit lovely in the ear.
> 
> 
> Oh and I don't use my cassette player to listen to music but cannot bring myself to bin it.


 
 Aiwa!!!! I used to have an Aiwa cassette player in later 90s. This is nostalgic for me.


----------



## ndburley

eisenbricher said:


> Aiwa!!!! I used to have an Aiwa cassette player in later 90s. This is nostalgic for me.


 
 That is where this one is from, my early days of music......full on hifi set ups that took up a chunk of the room and a parents record collection that needed a dedicated no go area....those were the days


----------



## bhazard

Aiwa players used to have the best sound when I was in High School. Good old days.


----------



## anduril

> Originally Posted by *ndburley* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> <...>
> 
> Oh and I don't use my cassette player to listen to music but cannot bring myself to bin it.


 
 I was DEFINITELY going to ask that


----------



## ndburley

anduril said:


> I was DEFINITELY going to ask that


 
 It would explain the loud hiss when i listen to music!!


----------



## anduril

ndburley said:


> It would explain the loud hiss when i listen to music!!


 

 HISS?? That's the music's SOUL you are hearing, you desecrating, autopsy-room-style, digichip weirdo!


----------



## EISENbricher

ndburley said:


> That is where this one is from, my early days of music......full on hifi set ups that took up a chunk of the room and a parents record collection that needed a dedicated no go area....those were the days


 
 Haha yeah exactly : ) 
 After my player died and the digital era arrived I converted my favourite ones to digital format (if you remember getting mp3s was really difficult that time).
  


bhazard said:


> Aiwa players used to have the best sound when I was in High School. Good old days.


 
 I agree... I had listened to Sony and Philips players as well but none of 'em managed to beat Aiwa sound. Mine even had 'Bass Boost' button which nicely boosted low end.
 Oh and btw that wasn't IEM era as well, I had never seen a single IEM till I had that AIWA. That was totally earbud era.


----------



## FreeShah

Kz Flashship store is really slow about shipping. They gave me a track number but there is no chance to watch. It does not work and it's almost 3. day. Guy's you should know when can I watch it. what about your experience.


----------



## Charliemotta

A typical delivery for me is 4 to 6 weeks, and sometimes more.


----------



## Ira Delphic

charliemotta said:


> A typical delivery for me is 4 to 6 weeks, and sometimes more.


 
  
 My delivery time - China to US, has ranged from 2.5 weeks up to 5 weeks - over holiday season. If over 5 weeks something is wrong.


----------



## EISENbricher

For me it's been 4-6 weeks, in India.


----------



## EISENbricher

freeshah said:


> Kz Flashship store is really slow about shipping. They gave me a track number but there is no chance to watch. It does not work and it's almost 3. day. Guy's you should know when can I watch it. what about your experience.


 
 Takes at least 5 days to get active. Don't worry, happened in all 5 purchases I made in KZ flagship.


----------



## ndburley

Ok, I got thinking after the comments about cassette players and dug out some old tapes and played them through my Aiwa. I also plugged in my KZ DT3s' into the PX287. I tell you what it does not sound that bad, I thought it would blow but apart from the little hiss you normally get when the music kicked it it was not half bad and through the DT3 also!


----------



## Breezy

I got my order of ED3 (ES were out of stock), EDSE and GR in 18 days. Almost 3 weeks, but it's from China so pretty good time, I went with China post and had tracking.

Now for the sound:
GR- My red filters didn't have holes in them. Sound was kind of harsh and overall pretty disappointing. These look neat and subtle though.
EDSE- These are overhyped. But they do sound good and they're pretty forward. Little bland on some music I know should sparkle and sound fantastic. Bass is surprisingly not as strong as I was expecting. Has a sound signature you could listen to for a long time.
ED3- I actually like this more than the EDSE, but it is quite bright and fatiguing. Does have a penchant to be detailed which I like. Doesn't have as much as bass as I usually like.

Other: 
3 Cardboard boxes packed in a bigger box instead of a packet= Sturdy and I'm pleased.
Tips are pretty rubbish and even the smalls don't fit me right but hey I got a full set for each of them.
A song I recommend for EDSE- Alina Baraz & Galmatias "Fantasy".
These are pretty heavy, tough, and won't be good to sleep in. They look nice. ED3 and GR look better than the EDSE imho. 
Cables are a bit sticky but they seem pretty high-quality.

Conclusion:
I paid $17 (coupons) and while these aren't a STEAL, I like them.


----------



## Ira Delphic

breezy said:


> I got my order of ED3 (ES were out of stock), EDSE and GR in 18 days. Almost 3 weeks, but it's from China so pretty good time, I went with China post and had tracking.
> 
> Now for the sound:
> GR- My red filters didn't have holes in them. Sound was kind of harsh and overall pretty disappointing. These look neat and subtle though.
> ...


 
  
 Lucky the ES is out of stock. It's not one of the better KZ's.
  
 EDSE over-hyped? I think it's definitely worth the $7!


----------



## EISENbricher

breezy said:


> I got my order of ED3 (ES were out of stock), EDSE and GR in 18 days. Almost 3 weeks, but it's from China so pretty good time, I went with China post and had tracking.
> 
> Now for the sound:
> GR- My red filters didn't have holes in them. Sound was kind of harsh and overall pretty disappointing. These look neat and subtle though.
> ...


 
 EDSE is worth the hype, who'd expect such great SQ for $7 haha
 For me they are the best ones among I have, for certain kind of music (Mostly EDM/KPOP). My friends also seem to be a lot impressed by SQ of EDSE.


----------



## crow1994

I have received KZ ED8. It is the best KZ model. Even better than KZ Micro with good Comply Tips. It sounds like more accurate, detailed DT3 with great, fast bass and wonderful highs.


----------



## anduril

http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-331-iems-compared-jvc-xtreme-xplosives-ha-fr301-added-01-12-15-p-1028/15420#post_11228779
  
 Who's with me? ;D


----------



## EISENbricher

crow1994 said:


> I have received KZ ED8. It is the best KZ model. Even better than KZ Micro with good Comply Tips. It sounds like more accurate, detailed DT3 with great, fast bass and wonderful highs.


 
 Awesome!!! Saves my money because soon I was about to get a micro ring for $16.
 Still at least one more week for my first ED8 to reach to me...


----------



## 1clearhead

crow1994 said:


> I have received KZ ED8. It is the best KZ model. Even better than KZ Micro with good Comply Tips. It sounds like more accurate, detailed DT3 with great, fast bass and wonderful highs.


 
  
 So, is the KZ-ED8 a game changer and the one to beat?


----------



## jelt2359

Guys how good are these? Are we talking Zero-Audio, Dunu, Fidue good?


----------



## Wokei

1clearhead said:


> So, is the KZ-ED8 a game changer and the one to beat?




Its all preference my friend ...diff dap diff tips diff file format amp n unamped diff amp and most of all ...what kind of sound sig YOU prefer...imho


----------



## Wokei

jelt2359 said:


> Guys how good are these? Are we talking Zero-Audio, Dunu, Fidue good?




 they are damm good for less than $10 a pop but not those iems ( if you mean their high end models)you mentioned ...the most it can hit is =>$50 but some KZ built quality are top notch though ...

Hope the mob squad dont come gunning for me ....


----------



## jelt2359

wokei said:


> they are damm good for less than $10 a pop but not those iems ( if you mean their high end models)you mentioned ...the most it can hit is =>$50 but some KZ built quality are top notch though ...
> 
> Hope the mob squad dont come gunning for me ....


 
 OK thanks. Appreciate it. I'm planning a sub-$300 IEM shootout. If these belong in a different category, then maybe I'll save them for next round when I attempt something like a sub-$50 shootout


----------



## anduril

anduril said:
			
		

> http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-331-iems-compared-jvc-xtreme-xplosives-ha-fr301-added-01-12-15-p-1028/15420#post_11228779
> 
> Who's with me? ;D


 
  


> > Originally Posted by *anduril*
> >
> > @ljokerl - are you interested in being dropshipped some Knowledge Zenith IEMs to be reviewed (probably ED Special Edition or ED8)? Not right now, rather when the discount comes again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sucks.


----------



## EISENbricher

jelt2359 said:


> Guys how good are these? Are we talking Zero-Audio, Dunu, Fidue good?


 
 Dunno what others think but I love my EDSE and it definitely plays EDM better than my ZA Tenores. They are also build like a tank, the price/performance ratio seems unreal. They are so cheap that you can easily gift away these to people. I'd suggest try some KZ once and give away to someone in case you don't like. No much loss. 
  
 I personally liked EDSE so much that I ordered one more EDSE and two ED8 straight away xD  I'll gift one EDSE to a close buddy though.


----------



## Dasbo

So... any impressions of the ED8 yet? a review or something?


----------



## EISENbricher

dasbo said:


> So... any impressions of the ED8 yet? a review or something?


 
 People have posted some in this thread... generally all claiming that it's the best thing KZ has produced yet.


----------



## ilikeiem

Anyone here like dance music?
  
 I have spent more than 300 hours with KZ-ED8. How can the price is only $10. If the price were 3 times higher, It’s still worth buying.
  
 Wear ED8+spiral eartips, play these music(720p or higher) LOUD enough and then compare with others IEMs.
 Can you feel the atmosphere?  
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB4dQcxgJPY&t=8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8q2NoVdN9Q&t=85
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8YXut6_56c&t=6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsjwG3FQna4&t=6
  
 To enjoy those music, at least an IEM needs punchy mid bass, quite a good detailed, separation and good soundstage. 
 ED8 is the first KZ IEM I've seen that does this well without the need for equalizer or digital signal processing algorithm.
 Unlike using EDSE, DT5 poletone..., sound of cymbals doesn't hurt my ear anymore.
  
Welcome to the club. Party people!!!


----------



## Dasbo

eisenbricher said:


> People have posted some in this thread... generally all claiming that it's the best thing KZ has produced yet.


 
 I know but these are kinda comments left from people that has like 2 messages on head fi, most of them doesn't say nothing really.


----------



## slowpickr

eisenbricher said:


> People have posted some in this thread... generally all claiming that it's the best thing KZ has produced yet.


 
 Personally, I'd like to see some detailed reviews and comparisons rather than just praise.  However, we're talking about a $10 headphone here so there isn't much risk IMHO.


----------



## 1clearhead

Someone here are saying that the KZ-ED8 are better than the KZ-Micro's?
  
 .....Details, details, details, my friend!


----------



## ilikeiem

slowpickr said:


> Personally, I'd like to see some detailed reviews and comparisons rather than just praise.  However, we're talking about a $10 headphone here so there isn't much risk IMHO.


 
 Will you trust those reviews?


----------



## slowpickr

ilikeiem said:


> Will you trust those reviews?


 
  
 Depends on who it is
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I've been burned a few times by some folks.  I since have developed my own "head-fier black list".


----------



## Wokei

slowpickr said:


> Depends on who it is .  I've been burned a few times by some folks.  I since have developed my own "head-fier black list".:tongue_smile:




Best post me read today..haha


----------



## Ira Delphic

slowpickr said:


> ilikeiem said:
> 
> 
> > Will you trust those reviews?
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. Someone only has real credibility when they have a substantial track record of reviews. For example, a nice enough guy recently did an exhaustive review of the T1-E. With lots of attributes rated, and then a comprehensive summary. Nice write up but not meaningful without the context of a body of reviews. I have the T1-E and disagreed with many of his points. In fact, I though it was pretty random, and he was just generating information as if writing an literature paper for school.
  
 Like I've mentioned before, the only way to have truly credible reviews is with blind listening tests. What we have now for the most part is just too subjective. My guess is that the reviewers look at the _appearance_ of the IEM, and are influenced by that. Consider the T2. A very cool looking IEM. And transparent so we can look at the bits! But how does it really sound? As human beings I don't think it's possible to be 100% objective.  And all burn in does is reduce cognitive dissonance, but that's for another post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Back to KZ...listing to Andy Stott - Faith in Stranger with my DT3 and blown away by the SQ!


----------



## DynamikeB

Totally agree Ira Delphic.  Objectivity is hard to get when the emotions are high and most people's wallet's invovled...
  
 DT3 is quite impressive yes.  I praised it before, and I keep thinking that for me, it's the most hard hitting and surprising of the KZ that I have (EDSE, ES, GR).  Still, I will receive ED8 next week...  DT3 is a steal at 10-15 bucks.


----------



## Shawn71

slowpickr said:


> Depends on who it is .  I've been burned a few times by some folks.  I since have developed my own "head-fier black list".:tongue_smile:




matured way of assessing....now


----------



## Ira Delphic

dynamikeb said:


> Totally agree Ira Delphic.  Objectivity is hard to get when the emotions are high and most people's wallet's invovled...
> 
> DT3 is quite impressive yes.  I praised it before, and I keep thinking that for me, it's the most hard hitting and surprising of the KZ that I have (EDSE, ES, GR).  Still, I will receive ED8 next week...  DT3 is a steal at 10-15 bucks.


 
  
 My ED8 (and R1) was marked "Sent to Airline" on Jan 3 by China Post tracking. _That's 13 days! _
  
 Back to reviewing, what also makes reviewing so unscientific is - different sound setups (player, amd, smartphone...), different genres of music, etc. It would be nice to at least *a core set of sound audio samples* in FLAC or 320k that reviewers should use, in addition to what they like to listen to. I am thankful that many reviewers can at least separate the wheat from the chaff.


----------



## crow1994

I want to say that I listen to KZ ED8 without filters. There is a similar situation like with Xiaomi Pistons 2. And the instruction to modify is common. ED8 have better highs with big quantity of air, bigger stage (yeah, bigger than Micro) and more detailes. Micro are excellent too, but IMHO they are more simple.


----------



## jelt2359

ira delphic said:


> My ED8 (and R1) was marked "Sent to Airline" on Jan 3 by China Post tracking. _That's 13 days! _
> 
> Back to reviewing, what also makes reviewing so unscientific is - different sound setups (player, amd, smartphone...), different genres of music, etc. It would be nice to at least *a core set of sound audio samples* in FLAC or 320k that reviewers should use, in addition to what they like to listen to. I am thankful that many reviewers can at least separate the wheat from the chaff.


 
 I'm not sure that would help so much, actually. I believe the most important thing is to use music you enjoy and that you know, and to be very consistent about using it. Same for setups. I use the same songs and same player and amp/dac for all my critical listening. Sometimes I come across some new gear that I prefer and would love to swap in, but it stays out for consistency's sake across all reviews. As for the music, if it was not something I enjoyed and liked very well, it wouldn't be able to _move_ me. Then you lose a lot of the whole point of this hobby in the first place- enjoying the music.
  
 I will say this, though. Listening *critically *to the same tracks on the same gear so many times gets tiring. I emphasise "critically" because listening for fun is just not the same. When I listen for fun, I try to ignore the technical aspects and just enjoy the music. If I were in that mode, I wouldn't give you impressions even if my life depended on it


----------



## 1clearhead

crow1994 said:


> I want to say that I listen to KZ ED8 without filters. There is a similar situation like with Xiaomi Pistons 2. And the instruction to modify is common. ED8 have better highs with big quantity of air, bigger stage (yeah, bigger than Micro) and more detailes. Micro are excellent too, but IMHO they are more simple.


 
  
 Didn't know you can mod these.
  
 Thanks for the update!


----------



## Ira Delphic

jelt2359 said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > My ED8 (and R1) was marked "Sent to Airline" on Jan 3 by China Post tracking. _That's 13 days! _
> ...


 
  
 Please note I wrote - "*core set of sound audio samples* in FLAC or 320k that reviewers should use, _in addition to what they like to listen to_."
  
 I wasn't suggesting that reviewers be limited to the samples. But the commonality would be very useful.


----------



## Ira Delphic

1clearhead said:


> crow1994 said:
> 
> 
> > I want to say that I listen to KZ ED8 without filters. There is a similar situation like with Xiaomi Pistons 2. And the instruction to modify is common. ED8 have better highs with big quantity of air, bigger stage (yeah, bigger than Micro) and more detailes. Micro are excellent too, but IMHO they are more simple.
> ...


 
  
 I hate to think that they _need to be modded_ at this point


----------



## jelt2359

ira delphic said:


> Please note I wrote - "*core set of sound audio samples* in FLAC or 320k that reviewers should use, _in addition to what they like to listen to_."
> 
> I wasn't suggesting that reviewers be limited to the samples. But the commonality would be very useful.




Oh. Then I agree! That's what you get for speed reading.


----------



## ilikeiem

I found this graph on KZ store (taobao).  Songs from Joe Hisaishi and Seiji Yokoyama are playing in the store. Really Cool!


----------



## Dasbo

ilikeiem said:


> I found this graph on KZ store (taobao).  Songs from Joe Hisaishi and Seiji Yokoyama are playing in the store. Really Cool!


 
 I don't know how to read this kind of graphics, could somebody translate it into newbie?


----------



## ilikeiem

dasbo said:


> I don't know how to read this kind of graphics, could somebody translate it into newbie?


 
 Oh.. it's quite a long topic but you can read this http://www.centerpointaudio.com/HowToUnderstandSoundFrequencyResponseGraph.aspx


----------



## Breezy

I never said EDSE weren't good for the money. They certainly are, especially for $7. They'd be a good gift to yourself and others. They've got a sound signature that a lot of people would like, it's forward yet not fatiguing, it's got a fair amount of details even though it's a bit dark. And they're pretty darn sturdy and look cool/unique. I just don't like that they're... Congested and it's like there's no space for every instrument but some people like a more intimate, closer feeling. All in all, they're a great step up from bad earphones.

But some people are making EDSE out to practically be a giant killer. Now if this is your preferred sound signature compared to a "giant" perhaps. And it's great that you found your (almost, headfiers never done updating) perfect sound signature early on. It certainly punches above its weight, but not to astronomical levels.

Mostly I wanted to be grueling so people are informed about what a KZ sounds like other than all the good parts of it. There's too many KZ to just try them all, but trying some of them to get a feel for what you like would be a pretty good idea. A lot of people have a basic idea of what they like but a part of this hobby is discovering what moves you and finding something that will provide that for you.

Guide:
If you know you're sensitive to treble, like bass and don't want to be "tired" from an IEM= EDSE. These are darker. (Warmer). They're akin to Apple EarPods but clearer and less muddy.
If you know you dislike a large quantity of bass, and like details and aren't adverse to a decent amount of treble= ED3. These are brighter. (Colder). They're like that earphone you got that didn't have much bass but you could hear details in the music you didn't hear before.
These two and a neutral KZ would be good to beginner headfiers who really don't know what they like yet.
I have yet to hear ED8 or Micro Ring or Soundsoul so I can't rate them, but I sincerely doubt they'd be bad for the money.

FYI: Darker signatures tend to be more popular. And while I actually don't like bright signatures I like really... Euphoric treble (ED3 is somewhat too bright). Keep in mind certain sources can impart their own sound, so combining a bright IEM with a very warm source can be pleasing.


----------



## Breezy

All this ED8, K1, TTPOD T2, VSD5, Soundsoul hype is crazy. It's like an explosion of good sound right now and I don't know where to throw my dollars.


----------



## dilidani

TTPOD T2 doesn't meet previous expectations based on early opinions, but we need more feedback ofc. K1 received mixed feelings here, but as @Hisoundfi said, it's a slight update from Sidy DM2 (~$45 IEM) so can't be that bad for 8 bucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soundsoul can be good for more airy music (like gr07, not my cup of tea), dt8 is a new bassy KZ, but I guess more to come soon from them. VSD5 is a mistery for me yet, waiting for reviews on it.


----------



## Dasbo

dilidani said:


> TTPOD T2 doesn't meet previous expectations based on early opinions, but we need more feedback ofc. K1 received mixed feelings here, but as @Hisoundfi said, it's a slight update from Sidy DM2 (~$45 IEM) so can't be that bad for 8 bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 dt8? what? you mean ed8? if that so, are you sure they're bassy? im kinda tired of bassy earphones...


----------



## ilikeiem

breezy said:


> All this ED8, K1, TTPOD T2, VSD5, Soundsoul hype is crazy. It's like an explosion of good sound right now and I don't know where to throw my dollars.


 
 Look like I'm crazy coz I have them all.


----------



## B9Scrambler

So.....correct me if I'm wrong, but what everyone here is actually saying is the Micro Ring are the best KZ iem. Followed by the ANV, clearly


----------



## dilidani

crow1994 said:


> I have received KZ ED8. It is the best KZ model. Even better than KZ Micro with good Comply Tips. It sounds like more accurate, detailed DT3 with great, fast bass and wonderful highs.


 
 @B9Scrambler, @Dasbo : Here's your answer. Though we need more feedback about these earphones, quite new, guys still ordering&waiting for delivery.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dilidani said:


> @B9Scrambler
> , @Dasbo
> : Here's your answer. Though we need more feedback about these earphones, quite new, guys still ordering&waiting for delivery.




I was being sarcastic, lol. I've read this thread top to bottom, and know what people generally consider the best KZs.


----------



## Dasbo

Just got my KZ ED-es and KZ-GR from the mail.
 So far I like both, also I tried to use my t-500 comply tips on them and them fit just right in both, and make a huge difference on the sound!
 I dunno how it's possible for some tips to change so well the sound, the only con is that the tips are almost big as the earphones LOL.


----------



## EISENbricher

dasbo said:


> Just got my KZ ED-es and KZ-GR from the mail.
> So far I like both, also I tried to use my t-500 comply tips on them and them fit just right in both, and make a huge difference on the sound!
> I dunno how it's possible for some tips to change so well the sound, the only con is that the tips are almost big as the earphones LOL.


 
 What difference do complys make for EDSE??? pls


----------



## Dasbo

eisenbricher said:


> What difference do complys make for EDSE??? pls


 
 Well, remember I just got this earphones like 2 hours ago, so we have to consider that they aren't burned-in yet.
 But so far, with the comply tips the sound seems like less bloated, a little more wide soundstage, less sharp but controlled, (I don't really don't know how to describe this yet, but the highs sound much more smooth and natural yet as detailed as they're), the main differences are in the highs mostly, bass doesn't seem much affected if not enhanced a little too, it feels a little more present and punchy, but not a huge differences compared to how the highs got more "naturalized" and smoothed. resuming: it sounds more natural, and that, at least for my taste is a huge enhancement, really, I like the KZED out of the box much more with the comply tips on them.

 (Sorry for the photo quality, had to take it with the ipad.)
  
 Now, if anybody wonders too, for the KZ-GR with the comply tips at difference of the KZED, the most benefited part aren't the highs but the bass, it sounds muuuuch less bloated and muuch more controlled, less muddy in general and more punchy. highs and mids aren't too much affected, at least it's not noticeable yet.


----------



## EISENbricher

dasbo said:


> Well, remember I just got this earphones like 2 hours ago, so we have to consider that they aren't burned-in yet.
> But so far, with the comply tips the sound seems like less bloated, a little more wide soundstage, less sharp but controlled, (I don't really don't know how to describe this yet, but the highs sound much more smooth and natural yet as detailed as they're), the main differences are in the highs mostly, bass doesn't seem much affected if not enhanced a little too, it feels a little more present and punchy, but not a huge differences compared to how the highs got more "naturalized" and smoothed. resuming: it sounds more natural, and that, at least for my taste is a huge enhancement, really, I like the KZED out of the box much more with the comply tips on them.
> 
> (Sorry for the photo quality, had to take it with the ipad.)
> ...


 
 Thanks for your opinion : )   It helps. You are right about EDSE, they sound nice out of the box, which kind of surprises you, given its price. I found the bass gets more controlled after some burn in. Didn't see much difference in highs yet. I gave away my pair to a friend as he was quite loved the sound and build. Bought one for myself again which will arrive in a week or two.


----------



## Dasbo

eisenbricher said:


> Thanks for your opinion : )   It helps. You are right about EDSE, they sound nice out of the box, which kind of surprises you, given its price. I found the bass gets more controlled after some burn in. Didn't see much difference in highs yet. I gave away my pair to a friend as he was quite loved the sound and build. Bought one for myself again which will arrive in a week or two.


 
 Yeah, but almost forgot.
 For those who have the KZ-GR and wanna use comply tips or similar, I recommend use the small size ones, medium size fits, but it is as big as the earphones, asides from it looks ugly, it isn't comfortable as it could be, so remember, use small comply tips for the KZ-GR.


----------



## salawat

is this seller of the kz ed8's legit? he's got 1645 feedback with 97.7% positive. just the price seems too good.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED8-enthusiast-bass-ear-headphones-copper-forging-7MM-shocking-anti-noise-microphone-sound-quality/32258214618.html


----------



## Dasbo

salawat said:


> is this seller of the kz ed8's legit? he's got 1645 feedback with 97.7% positive. just the price seems too good.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED8-enthusiast-bass-ear-headphones-copper-forging-7MM-shocking-anti-noise-microphone-sound-quality/32258214618.html


 
 Can't talk about that seller, but the official KZ store have the KZ ED8 for just 1 dollar more... why would you buy from somewhere else?


----------



## Duplexity

Sorry i'm posting this here but I wasn't able to find a good comparison elsewhere.
  
 Can someone outline the differences of the "whirlwind" tips and regular silicone ear buds or comply's?
  
 They seem to be very well-touted here so hopefully someone has tried them all!
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## anduril

I'm strongly considering these:
 http://www.westone.com/store/index.php/true-fit-and-star-silicone-fit-kit.html
 Any better options, as these will cost ~$22 shipped?


----------



## Dasbo

anduril said:


> I'm strongly considering these:
> http://www.westone.com/store/index.php/true-fit-and-star-silicone-fit-kit.html
> Any better options, as these will cost ~$22 shipped?


 
 Ha, consider yourself lucky of being able of pick these for only 22. If I wanted to do so I would probably have to pay like 40 usd at least.
  
 Sorry for being bittersweet, I mean, you should get them, westone tips are really good, and at least for me, 22 it's a bargain.


----------



## Breezy

I bought a TTPOD T1E that came with a large amount of tips.

The TTPOD is more refined but not that BIG of an upgrade from EDSE or ED3 with proper tips.

I found that EDSE sound best with triple flanges, GR with medium spiral/hurricane tips, and ED3 with wider bore black medium tips (I think these come with the TTPOD). Smalls are more comfortable but the seal of mediums help with the bass.

The effects of tips:
ED3 gets much needed bass.
GR bass extends deeper, some treble is still left to be desired but this becomes passable.
EDSE- Gets some treble sparkle. Fuller sound, kind of V-shaped, a fun sound. Sounds good, I just don't like a congested and very forward sound.

For some reason stock tips don't seal in my ears.


----------



## slowpickr

breezy said:


> I bought a TTPOD T1E that came with a large amount of tips.
> 
> The TTPOD is more refined but not that BIG of an upgrade from EDSE or ED3 with proper tips.
> 
> ...


 

 The KZ tips I've experienced all stink.  Their proper place is in the trash can.


----------



## mebaali

dasbo said:


> Well, remember I just got this earphones like 2 hours ago, so we have to consider that they aren't burned-in yet.
> But so far, with the comply tips the sound seems like less bloated, a little more wide soundstage, less sharp but controlled, (I don't really don't know how to describe this yet, but the highs sound much more smooth and natural yet as detailed as they're), the main differences are in the highs mostly, bass doesn't seem much affected if not enhanced a little too, it feels a little more present and punchy, but not a huge differences compared to how the highs got more "naturalized" and smoothed. resuming: it sounds more natural, and that, at least for my taste is a huge enhancement, really, I like the KZED out of the box much more with the comply tips on them.


 
 For the first time in the last 4 months, I like what I am listening from my EDSE. Thanks mainly to Comply foam tips (T400). With the stock tips these phones sounded too mid centric with anemic (non-existent) bass and over enthusiastic highs for my ears (in fact, I loved my ES more than these, which many here stated as having hot treble and recessed lows). After using comply foam tips, there is a definite reduction of harsh highs with a slight bit of bump in lows, i like the sound signature of these IEMs now more so than before.
  
 Edit: Along with the above improvement, I also find Instrument separation and soundstage to have improved a tad better (been listening with comply foam tips for the last hour or so)


----------



## anduril

> anduril said:
> 
> 
> > I'm strongly considering these:
> ...


 
 Don't be. Just found out that my friend is coming back to Europe too soon, the tips won't reach him in time.
 Sucks.


----------



## altrunox

ilikeiem said:


> On this KZ impressions thread, I would say it has good sound for the price $55


 
  
 Can you compare it with another headphone that you have? I bet they should be a bass heavy headphone.
 BTW, LPS and LP2 are gone (from KZ official store) and the nice bundles that they used to have too, what happened?


----------



## dilidani

Guys, seems like my KZ package has stuck somewhere in Beijing.. what should I do? Aliexpress "purchase protection" ends this week. Ordered it in the middle of December.


----------



## EISENbricher

dilidani said:


> Guys, seems like my KZ package has stuck somewhere in Beijing.. what should I do? Aliexpress "purchase protection" ends this week. Ordered it in the middle of December.


 
 Nothing ordinary in this, it always gets stuck at Beijing. My last 4 orders did. Time spent at Beijing ranged from 1 week to 6 weeks. Since it's been a month I'd advice to wait a little more. I had ordered the products to India.
  
 Oh btw ask the seller to extend protection time. He would likely agree. If he doesn't then press the button on last day. At least better than losing protection.


----------



## FreeShah

You may ask for extra time. If still does not work than refund it.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dilidani said:


> Guys, seems like my KZ package has stuck somewhere in Beijing.. what should I do? Aliexpress "purchase protection" ends this week. Ordered it in the middle of December.


 
  
 The second "Export Security Scan" doesn't make sense. It should be sent to airline, then next event a post office outside of China.


----------



## Dasbo

*Ding ding ding*
 Another sale 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/1380688.html


----------



## FreeShah

dasbo said:


> *Ding ding ding*
> Another sale
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/1380688.html


 
 OMG just after a week I bought. lol. Will get some more.


----------



## slowpickr

I'm still trying to figure out if the ED8 is an across the board upgrade to the EDSE...


----------



## Dasbo

slowpickr said:


> I'm still trying to figure out if the ED8 is an across the board upgrade to the EDSE...


 
 If it is just like the EDSE but complemented with some good bass, it would be almost perfect.


----------



## EISENbricher

freeshah said:


> OMG just after a week I bought. lol. Will get some more.


 
 Wow much thanks KZ flaghip haha


----------



## GoodOutcome

I have the ED8 OTW, I wonder what should i get?


----------



## EISENbricher

Get DT3 and EDSE...


----------



## B9Scrambler

Wokei! Horrible things have happened. My ANV's left channel has died. Le sigh.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Wokei! Horrible things have happened. My ANV's left channel has died. Le sigh.


 
 Get new ANV? Too cheap now lol


----------



## Dasbo

b9scrambler said:


> Wokei! Horrible things have happened. My ANV's left channel has died. Le sigh.


 
 Hong long did it lasted?


----------



## summerbreeze

Hi everyone, i am new to the forum yet.
 I read 160 pages in 1 hour and decided to join!
 My question is, whats the difference between these 2? I wanna get 1 pair after this huge sale..
  
 KZ-ED Special Edition (6.72 usd)
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headset-music-headset-phone-headset-bass-headphone-free-shipping/1380688_1987244299.html
  
 KZ-ED2 (6.16 usd)
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-official-flagship-store-selling-cheap-cell-phone-headset-ear-headphones-sound-bass-HIFI/1380688_2042672476.html
  
 thanks in advance!


----------



## Shurong

It looks same with the preview picture, anyone know?


----------



## Dasbo

KZ has different versions for the same earphones, one is more bassy while the other is not, etc.


----------



## slowpickr

shurong said:


> It looks same with the preview picture, anyone know?


 
 IIRC, folks have mentioned in the past that these two are basically the same.


----------



## slowpickr

Just broke down and ordered the ED8 (blue).  Couldn't resist the $7 price tag.


----------



## Dasbo

slowpickr said:


> Just broke down and ordered the ED8 (blue).  Couldn't resist the $7 price tag.


 
 I'm just about to order the ED8 togheter with the DT5 pole edition for 14.80 lol
 Does the dt5 pole edition worh it?


----------



## ilikeiem

dasbo said:


> I'm just about to order the ED8 togheter with the DT5 pole edition for 14.80 lol
> Does the dt5 pole edition worh it?


 

 My DT5 pole tone comes with this kind of wood storage box.


----------



## Ira Delphic

b9scrambler said:


> Wokei! Horrible things have happened. My ANV's left channel has died. Le sigh.


 
  
 Do you have a good camera? Please tear down the ANV! Many of us would love to see all the bits inside - especially the dynamic driver.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Wokei! Horrible things have happened. My ANV's left channel has died. Le sigh.




You called me...what...did it just died naturally or something happened prior to it's demise...so sorry to hear that...It's on sale now...me think it's 7$ now...hope this will cheer you up


----------



## summerbreeze

so can we say ED8 is slighlty better than EDSE? Which one is more ergonomic in the ear?


----------



## Ira Delphic

If you're spending $7 on a KZ IEM does it make sense to use expensive foam tips? Even if you can afford it, there are better (and more fun) alternatives. See this old thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/383917/how-to-best-custom-tips-for-iems-ever-imho-with-pics/195#post_11075327
  
 I used a silicon tip from a T1 - narrow bore and converted it into something similar to a Sony foam $$$ hybrid tip! The foam is INSIDE of the silicon. This really makes my KZ's shine - EDSE (and ES which I nearly gave up on). I'm also using the cheap Chinese red foam tips from Ebay, but the DIY foam-inside--silicon provides a _much_ better seal.
  
 I used Hearos Ear Plugs - Xtreme Protection Series - 14 plugs for $4 or less! That's about 25 cents a plug. Other high quality foam earplugs will work fine too. 
  
 Another option - foam only no silicon. I use the leftover base - cylinder shaped piece of the Hearos. Make a hole in the center, and slip the "doughnut" on the IEM nozzle. Using this method with the EDSE, sound isolation is fair, but SQ is _excellent_. The foam suspends the IEM in the ear canal, and stays on the nozzle without falling off. It is necessary to compress and hold the foam. There's little between the IEM and your ear. 
  
 If you give it a try - please report back - good or bad. Use whatever foam earplug you have lying around first.


----------



## robervaul

ira delphic said:


> If you're spending $7 on a KZ IEM does it make sense to use expensive foam tips? Even if you can afford it, there are better (and more fun) alternatives. See this old thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/383917/how-to-best-custom-tips-for-iems-ever-imho-with-pics/195#post_11075327
> 
> ...


 
  
  
@Ira Delphic Thanks. I'm also a fan of the DIY.
What kind of hole will bring more low frequency?? Open more or less open?
  ​ Cheapest option for my country.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-20pcs-Foam-Soft-Ear-Plugs-Noise-Reduction-Earplugs-ear-plugs-for-noise-ear-protection-earplug/2046082932.html​


----------



## joemama

Finally got my DT3 and DT5 Pole-Tones today. Only took about 5 weeks (previous orders took about 2–2-1/2 weeks) And I didn't get the DT5 PT in a wooden box (what's with that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Oh well...


----------



## Ira Delphic

robervaul said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > If you're spending $7 on a KZ IEM does it make sense to use expensive foam tips? Even if you can afford it, there are better (and more fun) alternatives. See this old thread:
> ...


 
  
 Wide bore - attenuates higher frequencies, narrow - more bass/L shaped. The narrow - (foam only) "doughnut"  option I mention is about as wide bore as you can get. 
  
 BTW - I have a problem with un-modded silicon tips staying in my ear canal. So for this reason need the foam to act as a spring to keep the IEM from getting loose.


----------



## Dasbo

joemama said:


> Finally got my DT3 and DT5 Pole-Tones today. Only took about 5 weeks (previous orders took about 2–2-1/2 weeks) And I didn't get the DT5 PT in a wooden box (what's with that ) Oh well...



Care to share some pics and tell us your opinion over the Dt5 pole edition?


----------



## ndburley

I am really tempted by the ED3 as they look really sweet but are they worse than what I already have?


----------



## EISENbricher

ndburley said:


> I am really tempted by the DT3 as they look really sweet but are they worse than what I already have?


 
 ED3 is a mixed bag. Trebleheads seem to like it.
  
 Oh btw since you have EDSE and DT3, I wanted to ask how it differs from EDSE? I have EDSE and since KZ's sale is going on i was thinking of getting DT3.


----------



## ndburley

Ira already pointed out my mistake...doh!! I meant ED3...I have updated my post with the correct model.....whoops


----------



## EISENbricher

ndburley said:


> Ira already pointed out my mistake...doh!! I meant ED3...I have updated my post with the correct model.....whoops


 
 And I updated mine as well xD


----------



## ndburley

eisenbricher said:


> And I updated mine as well xD


 
 To be honest I have looked back and they were a platinum edition limited to 999 but looks like a load of rubbish as the Dt5 is just the same.
 Cant see the difference to be honest.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6307369666.html?orderId=64314891456046


----------



## ndburley

eisenbricher said:


> ED3 is a mixed bag. Trebleheads seem to like it.
> 
> Oh btw since you have EDSE and DT3, I wanted to ask how it differs from EDSE? I have EDSE and since KZ's sale is going on i was thinking of getting DT3.


 
 I love the punch the DT3 has, it is a keeper if you like a good thump on the bass and they dont weigh a ton like my ED5 or Platinum Editions or whatever they are. Dont get me wrong the DT5? sounds great but the DT3 is lighter and punches more also giving a fair top end while the DT5? or EDPLE can get a bit hard on your ears with treble after a while. I would go DT3 myself.


----------



## summerbreeze

if you wanted to buy first time, which one of them would you pick? EDSE or ED8?


----------



## Ira Delphic

summerbreeze said:


> if you wanted to buy first time, which one of them would you pick? EDSE or ED8?


 
  
 There's a ton of feedback on the EDSE and little on the ED8 since it's new. You may want to hedge your bets and order both (total of US$14 now?) or wait another week for a review.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Get new ANV? Too cheap now lol


 
  
 I totally could, but all that history would be lost forever!
  

  


dasbo said:


> Hong long did it lasted?


 

  
 Not very long, lol. Just a few months. Surprised given the beefyness of the cable. I'll find out whats up!
  


ira delphic said:


> Do you have a good camera? Please tear down the ANV! Many of us would love to see all the bits inside - especially the dynamic driver.


 

  
 Already on it! My camera isn't great (just the 8MP in my Nexus S), but it should do the trick. 
  


wokei said:


> You called me...what...did it just died naturally or something happened prior to it's demise...so sorry to hear that...It's on sale now...me think it's 7$ now...hope this will cheer you up


 

 You were one of the few that actually liked the ANV. It was a natural death....just a slow quieting of the left driver, then nothing.............she's hot. Thanks :3
  
 I'm going to try attaching a new cable to see if its the driver or the cable.


----------



## Dasbo

b9scrambler said:


> You were one of the few that actually liked the ANV. It was a natural death....just a slow quieting of the left driver, then nothing.............she's hot. Thanks :3
> 
> I'm going to try attaching a new cable to see if its the driver or the cable.


 
 There's no such thing as a "natural" death on headphones, a headphone driver can work for years without suffering the minimal change or problem unless it's defective, probably what's ****ed it's the plug jack, in that case the earphones are perfectly well and you just have to change the plug.


----------



## FreeShah

Guys ı ordered edse ABD ed8 what should be next? For bassy maybe.


----------



## robervaul

@Ira Delphic, You only have giant killers 






 *IEM:* GR07 CE/TTPOD T1-E/SoundSOUL S-018/KZ EDSE/KZ DT3/KZ ES/KZ ED8/KZ R1


----------



## Hisoundfi

b9scrambler said:


> I totally could, but all that history would be lost forever!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No offense, but that might be the goofiest thing I've ever heard. For the cost of a replacement cable, and time it would take to TRY to repair it, you could probably purchase two more pairs of these.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dasbo said:


> There's no such thing as a "natural" death on headphones, a headphone driver can work for years without suffering the minimal change or problem unless it's defective, probably what's ****ed it's the plug jack, in that case the earphones are perfectly well and you just have to change the plug.




lol. tru tru. the plug is okay. the issue is the cable up in the housing itself. If you flicked it sound would come back temporarily then fade out again. I semi-attached another cable and it was fine. Love messing around with stuff like this. Cheapo iems ftw!


----------



## FreeShah

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-end-interactive-ear-headphones-double-unit-mobile-music-enthusiast-earphone-super-heavy-bass-KZ-DT3/2050368332.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Listing-ear-headphones-bass-headphones-music-headset-phone-headset-with-a-microphone-kz-dt3/2045257142.html
  
 What is the difference between them?


----------



## ilikeiem

summerbreeze said:


> if you wanted to buy first time, which one of them would you pick? EDSE or ED8?


 
 No doubt. ED8!!!


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> No doubt. ED8!!!


 
 +1


----------



## Hisoundfi

I would go with the EDSE. 

This debate depends on a few things. 

#1 Listening volume:at higher volumes I can understand why some would prefer the ED8. I listen to my gears at medium-ish volume. At that range I find the EDSE superior. I listen to a ton of iems and headphones and need to protect my hearing. The ED8 has lots of slam and sound better at higher volumes. 

#2 Signature preference:My pair of ed8 follows along the lines of the dt5,which is a very bass forward sound with some bloat that spills a little bit into the midrange (more so than edse). Because of this I prefer the EDSE. While still bass forward, the EDSE sounds better balanced and with better resolution. 

#3: Looks: The EDSE looks like a midevil times torture device, and the ED8 looks like they were stolen from the batmobile. Both of them aren't the prettiest looking things, but I give a slight edge to the EDSE. I can wear them and not get asked if I stole them from my son's batman crime kit. 

I don't fault people for liking the ed8, they are awesome (especially for the price). But it's different strokes for different folks. My vote goes to the EDSE.


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> I would go with the EDSE.
> 
> This debate depends on a few things.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. I'm going to skip the ED8 based on your comments. Expecting it two pairs to arrive tomorrow. I don't need a bass heavy KZ. *If anyone based in the US needs an ED8 it's yours for $10 via 1st class mail.* Send me a pm. My future IEM's will be higher on the food chain. Also getting the R1 but will keep that.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> Thanks. I'm going to skip the ED8 based on your comments. Expecting it two pairs to arrive tomorrow. I don't need a bass heavy KZ. *If anyone based in the US needs an ED8 it's yours for $10 via 1st class mail.* Send me a pm. My future IEM's will be higher on the food chain. Also getting the R1 but will keep that.


Like I said, different strokes for different folks. Give them a listen before you sell them, you might like them more than I do.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Thanks. I'm going to skip the ED8 based on your comments. Expecting it two pairs to arrive tomorrow. I don't need a bass heavy KZ. *If anyone based in the US needs an ED8 it's yours for $10 via 1st class mail.* Send me a pm. My future IEM's will be higher on the food chain. Also getting the R1 but will keep that.


 
 Haha don't be in so hurry dude. Like Hisound said give it a try. I'd even say burn one pair for good. Chinese websites been praising it a lot and it's definitely an upper crop of KZs. My order will arrive soon now so I can post some reviews. (I'm a bass lover btw so I'm looking even more forward to ED8 lol)
  


freeshah said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-end-interactive-ear-headphones-double-unit-mobile-music-enthusiast-earphone-super-heavy-bass-KZ-DT3/2050368332.html
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Listing-ear-headphones-bass-headphones-music-headset-phone-headset-with-a-microphone-kz-dt3/2045257142.html
> 
> What is the difference between them?


 
 Just mic and micless version. BTW buy from KZ Official Flagship store, it's offering micless version of DT3 at just $8.40
  


hisoundfi said:


> I would go with the EDSE.
> 
> This debate depends on a few things.
> 
> ...


 Well this makes me happier. I desperately need a bassy earphone with good quality. I think ED8 might do the trick. I also have EDSE so I can compare and post here my thoughts based on my taste.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks. I'm going to skip the ED8 based on your comments. Expecting it two pairs to arrive tomorrow. I don't need a bass heavy KZ. *If anyone based in the US needs an ED8 it's yours for $10 via 1st class mail.* Send me a pm. My future IEM's will be higher on the food chain. Also getting the R1 but will keep that.
> ...


 
  
 My favorite IEM is the GR07. Even the Pistons are too bass heavy and for that reason use them mostly for listening to audiobooks. I was hoping the ED8 would be like the EDSE but with greater sound stage, lol. I'm sure for most it is a great IEM. But I honestly have enough KZ's but am intrigued with the R1 so that will test and keep that. Also I doubt there's much of a market for slightly used KZ!


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> My favorite IEM is the GR07. Even the Pistons are too bass heavy and for that reason use them mostly for listening to audiobooks. I was hoping the ED8 would be like the EDSE but with greater sound stage, lol. I'm sure for most it is a great IEM. But I honestly have enough KZ's but am intrigued with the R1 so that will test and keep that. Also I doubt there's much of a market for slightly used KZ!


 
 ED8 is different from EDSE. Since your favorite IEM is the GR07, I guess you are comfortable with sibilance and brighter sound.  Then EDSE may be better choice for you.  
 PS. I still find all KZ's IEMs has weak bass compare to subwoofer in my car ... LOL


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > My favorite IEM is the GR07. Even the Pistons are too bass heavy and for that reason use them mostly for listening to audiobooks. I was hoping the ED8 would be like the EDSE but with greater sound stage, lol. I'm sure for most it is a great IEM. But I honestly have enough KZ's but am intrigued with the R1 so that will test and keep that. Also I doubt there's much of a market for slightly used KZ!
> ...


 
  
 Yes I don't mind the sibilance present in the GR07/ That is the price to pay for the extra "sparkle" on the high end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 See my signature. I have the EDSE and highly (and really like it). I'm still have high hopes for the KZ R1 - arriving tomorrow.


----------



## vovka

finally i received the parcel with both EDSE and ED8. ED8 was a free gift as I've won the lottery.
 i also own ES for a couple of month.
 ED8 seems to something average between ES (bassier) and EDSE (brighter).
 have to listen more, but out of the box ED8 sounds way too good.


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> Yes I don't mind the sibilance present in the GR07/ That is the price to pay for the extra "sparkle" on the high end
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh... $4.06 KZ-R1, it won't disappoint you for sure!   I like all KZ IEMs but I like ED8 the most 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 coz I always listen to dance music at this period.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I don't mind the sibilance present in the GR07/ That is the price to pay for the extra "sparkle" on the high end
> ...


 
  KZ-R1 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-r1-Noise-noise-reduction-ear-headphones-music-headset-phone-headset-HIFI-headphone/1987332228.html
  
 I have someone to give it to that's allergic to metal and I will test it first. The R1 has no metal on the outside. And it has the @Hisoundfi seal of approval!


----------



## ilikeiem

vovka said:


> ... but out of the box ED8 sounds way too good.


 
 Yeah, ED8 rocks!!!


----------



## EISENbricher

vovka said:


> finally i received the parcel with both EDSE and ED8. ED8 was a free gift as I've won the lottery.
> i also own ES for a couple of month.
> ED8 seems to something average between ES (bassier) and EDSE (brighter).
> have to listen more, but out of the box ED8 sounds way too good.


 
 Good to know that ED8 sounds good  
  


ilikeiem said:


> Oh... $4.06 KZ-R1, it won't disappoint you for sure!   I like all KZ IEMs but I like ED8 the most
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 EDM for me as well, cheers bro!
  


ira delphic said:


> Yes I don't mind the sibilance present in the GR07/ That is the price to pay for the extra "sparkle" on the high end
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow if you can handle VSonic's sibilance then you must be a treblehead. I can't absolutely handle sibilance.


----------



## B9Scrambler

My R3 arrived today. Unfortunately the left driver has something wrong with it, and the distortion makes them unusable :/ From what I gathered with my limited use of the right driver, they are almost a mix of the EDse and LPS; EDse treble and mids, with the LPS' big bass.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> My R3 arrived today. Unfortunately the left driver has something wrong with it, and the distortion makes them unusable :/ From what I gathered with my limited use of the right driver, they are almost a mix of the EDse and LPS; EDse treble and mids, with the LPS' big bass.




What a bummer ....first ANV and now the R3 left driver .....so sorry to hear that ...cheers


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> What a bummer ....first ANV and now the R3 left driver .....so sorry to hear that ...cheers




Yeah...this week has been poor for my KZs. I treat them way better than an 8$ iem should be treated too, lol. At least the ANV is only a soldering away from being recabled. They are really easy to work on. 

For those that have the ANV, take care with the stock cable. Despite feeling nice and beefy, there is a shocking lack of metal strands running through there.


----------



## Dasbo

So what are the final impressions over the ED8?


----------



## Ira Delphic

dasbo said:


> So what are the final impressions over the ED8?


 
  
 From what I've read...more bass than EDSE but no significant improvement in SQ over other KZ.


----------



## DynamikeB

Just received ED8...
  
 Out of the box, yes, they «seem» to sound awesome.  I think they would be my top KZ iem, BUT:
  
 - They are so big and heavy (metal alloy or something, and so huge + heavier than KZ GR).
  
 - Fit is a nightmare to get proper seal.  It seems like my right ear canal cannot stand them.  Weird, I don't have this problem with my other iems...
  
 I did some quick tip rolling but still... very disappointing for now, as the sound is quite promising. 
  
 For sure, you cannot sleep or run with these.  I am not sure over the ear is a better choice either.  Still, my two cents, and I will definitely try more when I have time.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> From what I've read...more bass than EDSE but no significant improvement in SQ over other KZ.


you and me read the same thread but why I see people praising ED8 a lot? Some claimed these to be best kz yet.


----------



## EISENbricher

dynamikeb said:


> Just received ED8...
> 
> Out of the box, yes, they «seem» to sound awesome.  I think they would be my top KZ iem, BUT:
> 
> ...



So main issue is fit.... Try Sony Hybrids? They always give a nice seal and good fit.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > From what I've read...more bass than EDSE but no significant improvement in SQ over other KZ.
> ...


 
  
 I only see one person really hyping these (not you EISENbricher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). SQ up there with the better KZ - EDSE, DT3, etc _but more bass_.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dynamikeb said:


> Just received ED8...
> 
> Out of the box, yes, they «seem» to sound awesome.  I think they would be my top KZ iem, BUT:
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you want an IEM that is almost invisible (ok I'm exaggerating) look at the KZ R1. I just got them today. *These are likely the best KZ IEM for sleeping. *They protrude very little from ears. After a quick listen - high end/treble very nice. Mids a bit recessed. Bass tight and not excessive. I'm ordering a second backup pair or two.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> I only see one person really hyping these (not you EISENbricher
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I might fuel up the hype train when I receive my ED8 xD
Because the sound signature as specified by people is of my liking.


----------



## vovka

dynamikeb said:


> - They are so big and heavy (metal alloy or something, and so huge + heavier than KZ GR).


 
 i think if given enough spin i could smash people's heads with ED8 
 when i received ES i thought 'omg, they are heavy'
 now having ED8 i know what 'heavy' is
  
 anyway i plan to use them indoors only, attached to my tablet


----------



## DynamikeB

I tried quickly Sony Hybrids, but they are kind of too small to fit on the driver.  Hard to, at least.  I will try back again later.  My initial impression about these was that they muffled the sound too much.


----------



## DynamikeB

vovka said:


> i think if given enough spin i could smash people's heads with ED8
> when i received ES i thought 'omg, they are heavy'
> now having ED8 i know what 'heavy' is
> 
> anyway i plan to use them indoors only, attached to my tablet


 
 Haha, damage guaranteed...


----------



## Ira Delphic

vovka said:


> dynamikeb said:
> 
> 
> > - They are so big and heavy (metal alloy or something, and so huge + heavier than KZ GR).
> ...


 
  
 That's why I love the DT3. Plastic and weigh next to nothing. KZ stuck a very nice dd in that iem and tuned nicely.


----------



## EISENbricher

vovka said:


> i think if given enough spin i could smash people's heads with ED8
> when i received ES i thought 'omg, they are heavy'
> now having ED8 i know what 'heavy' is
> 
> anyway i plan to use them indoors only, attached to my tablet


 
 lololol can't wait for my ED8 xD xD


----------



## donmarkon

Can anyone give me quick replay for kz-gr . How good are they ? i realy like them  Just need advice about sound quality :- )


----------



## slowpickr

Listening to some EDM right now on my EDSE.  Wow, these things ROCK!!!!!!!!!  ED8 has been marked as shipped.  Looking forward to getting them!


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> Listening to some EDM right now on my EDSE.  Wow, these things ROCK!!!!!!!!!  ED8 has been marked as shipped.  Looking forward to getting them!


 
 Yeah... I agree, I so much enjoy EDSE's low end. They are good for EDM.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> slowpickr said:
> 
> 
> > Listening to some EDM right now on my EDSE.  Wow, these things ROCK!!!!!!!!!  ED8 has been marked as shipped.  Looking forward to getting them!
> ...


 
 Really? IMHO they pretty much sucked with EDM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Pistons way better for this genre. Just my subjective opinion.
 Btw, EDSE seems to have quality control issues. Fellow forum member bought 2 of those and one had noticeably more bass.
 I had 2 of those and they sounded more neutral than Pistons. These all were bought from known seller linked in this thread many times.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Really? IMHO they pretty much sucked with EDM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 idk pistons bass was kinda too much and bloated for my taste. Again that's my personal opinion and I've spent not much time on Pistons...  EDM is my fav genre tho and EDSE made justice ^_^


----------



## Dasbo

donmarkon said:


> Can anyone give me quick replay for kz-gr . How good are they ? i realy like them  Just need advice about sound quality :- )


 
 They look nice, but I wound't recommend them, their sound it's nothing compared to the KZ-ED.
 And if you wonder you does they sound, they sound bassy but fully veiled by the bass.


----------



## donmarkon

dasbo said:


> They look nice, but I wound't recommend them, their sound it's nothing compared to the KZ-ED.
> And if you wonder you does they sound, they sound bassy but fully veiled by the bass.


 
 So which one you recomend to buy ? what is best buy ?


----------



## ilikeiem

donmarkon said:


> So which one you recomend to buy ? what is best buy ?


 
 It depends a lot on what kind of music you want to play.


----------



## donmarkon

Well all around balanced sound recommend me something


----------



## ilikeiem

donmarkon said:


> Well all around balanced sound recommend me something


 
 I'm not a fan of balanced sound.  IMHO, That would be KZ-ANV, KZ-R1


----------



## donmarkon

Well write me down 2-3 models each good at some kind of sound , i will decide  thanks alot ! To add also i will use them mostly at gym ...


----------



## ilikeiem

donmarkon said:


> Well write me down 2-3 models each good at some kind of sound , i will decide  thanks alot ! To add also i will use them mostly at gym ...


 
 Here are some examples.
 if you like dance music (like me… LOL), get KZ-ED8
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a5zTTYaNl8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB4dQcxgJPY
  
 if you like audiophile music, get KZ-EDSE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHFUnfjBTMg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0kyQGsVxSE
  
 if you like this kind of music, get KZ-RS1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLoUH6LN9lk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsjwG3FQna4


----------



## donmarkon

Thanks alot


----------



## ilikeiem

donmarkon said:


> Thanks alot


 
 Oops I forget to tell you that ED8 and EDSE are *big* and *heavy* but sound quality is excellent for the price.


----------



## donmarkon

are ED8 ok to use in gym ? how good they stay in ear ?


----------



## Ira Delphic

donmarkon said:


> are ED8 ok to use in gym ? how good they stay in ear ?


 
  
 Do you think a heavy cylinder of metal will stay in your ear during a workout?


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> Really? *IMHO they pretty much sucked with EDM*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Had similar experience with my EDSE. They sounded meh in bass , the trebles were hot too. All this was with the stock tips but ever since I have changed the tips to comply foams (T-400), EDSE is sounding great for EDM tracks.


----------



## slowpickr

mebaali said:


> Had similar experience with my EDSE. They sounded meh in bass , the trebles were hot too. All this was with the stock tips but ever since I have changed the tips to comply foams (T-400), EDSE is sounding great for EDM tracks.


 

 I'm using Sony hybrids with good results.


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> I'm using Sony hybrids with good results.



Same


----------



## donmarkon

ira delphic said:


> Do you think a heavy cylinder of metal will stay in your ear during a workout?


 
 So what you recomend me for gym usage and good sound  which model ?


----------



## Wokei

donmarkon said:


> So what you recomend me for gym usage and good sound  which model ?




You might wanna try KZ GK PRO or R1 ...both of them are the same model ....cheers.


----------



## Shurong

hi every one before i make some transaction in aliexpress, i want to confirm is kz-ed2 same with kz-edse ? me consider to buy the kz-ed2 because it's cheaper


----------



## Wokei

shurong said:


> hi every one before i make some transaction in aliexpress, i want to confirm is kz-ed2 same with kz-edse ? me consider to buy the kz-ed2 because it's cheaper




Me would order the ED2 ...did ask them before ...the reply was ...put it this way ....dont understand what he wrote ....haha....just my opinion ..cheers


----------



## Shurong

wokei said:


> Me would order the ED2 ...did ask them before ...the reply was ...put it this way ....dont understand what he wrote ....haha....just my opinion ..cheers


 
 i did ask them too a minute ago, the answer is "same" without any other word, so i think it's clear. Thanks wokei, me really a fan of you


----------



## Ira Delphic

wokei said:


> donmarkon said:
> 
> 
> > So what you recomend me for gym usage and good sound
> ...


 
  
 I just tested the R1 last night. Of all the KZ I have it is the best one for gym use (assuming it will stay in your ear). Small, light, plastic - not metal so won't corrode. SQ is very good too!


----------



## Wokei

ira delphic said:


> I just tested the R1 last night. Of all the KZ I have it is the best one for gym use (assuming it will stay in your ear). Small, light, plastic - not metal so won't corrode. SQ is very good too!




Haha ..great minds think alike .....for less than 10$ ....hell yeah ....coupled with more than decent sound ....yeah


----------



## B9Scrambler

I popped the R3 in this morning just because, and what do you know? The insane distortion has been replaced with only the worst driver flex I've ever experienced, lol. An improvement none-the-less.

On the plus side, this means that I have been able to use them for the last few hours, and boy am I glad. They sound awesome.

The bass is absolutely sublime. Smooth as silk, with tons of low end rumble. Mids are quite forward and a little metallic, but still quite nice. Treble can be quite peaky and a bit harsh. Should this pair remain in my possession, I'll see what can be done to fix that.

These are a bit too slow and pondering for rock and metal, but are ace for EDM and hip hop. Another juicy KZ gem to me.

I recabled the ANV, but I think I damaged them in the process. My soldering skills are pretty poor, so I just bought another pair :3 Along with those I ordered the CM9. I am developing a soft spot for those big 14mm drivers. Next up with be the Dunu Titan 1!


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> I popped the R3 in this morning just because, and what do you know? The insane distortion has been replaced with only the worst driver flex I've ever experienced, lol. An improvement none-the-less.
> 
> On the plus side, this means that I have been able to use them for the last few hours, and boy am I glad. They sound awesome.
> 
> ...


 
 My 16mm XB90EX approves. They sound BIG.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> I popped the R3 in this morning just because, and what do you know? The insane distortion has been replaced with only the worst driver flex I've ever experienced, lol. An improvement none-the-less.
> 
> On the plus side, this means that I have been able to use them for the last few hours, and boy am I glad. They sound awesome.
> 
> ...




Me approved of them ...the CM9 ....quite a few old timer dont like them .....they are to me ...brilliant for the price ...usual theme for KZ ....but they are bright for some ....not me though ....clarity is there ....the bass is not bloated ..pretty tame for basshead but just nice and controlled imo .....and if you still dont like them ....me accidentally took out one of the tip filter .....so now my CM9 nozzle has no filter ...they sound even better to me ....haha ..cheers .hope you like them when they come... :rolleyes:


----------



## Dasbo

b9scrambler said:


> I popped the R3 in this morning just because, and what do you know? The insane distortion has been replaced with only the worst driver flex I've ever experienced, lol. An improvement none-the-less.
> 
> On the plus side, this means that I have been able to use them for the last few hours, and boy am I glad. They sound awesome.
> 
> ...


 
 So you like the R3?


----------



## B9Scrambler

dasbo said:


> So you like the R3?




Sure do. Hoping I can get a replacement pair because this driver flex is bonkers. Opening and closing my mouth makes them crinkle like crazy. Disappointing since they really do sound great. Lots and lots of bass though. Definitely not sure the bass-shy.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Me approved of them ...the CM9 ....quite a few old timer dont like them .....they are to me ...brilliant for the price ...usual theme for KZ ....but they are bright for some ....not me though ....clarity is there ....the bass is not bloated ..pretty tame for basshead but just nice and controlled imo .....and if you still dont like them ....me accidentally took out one of the tip filter .....so now my CM9 nozzle has no filter ...they sound even better to me ....haha ..cheers .hope you like them when they come... :rolleyes:




Awesome! thanks for the good description. sounds similar to the ANV, so I should definitely like them


----------



## anduril

> I am developing a soft spot for those big 14mm drivers. Next up with be the Dunu Titan 1!


 
 MEP-933? 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/580769/the-monoprice-mp9927-pg-208-mp8320-mep-933-the-7-11-club


----------



## B9Scrambler

anduril said:


> MEP-933?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/580769/the-monoprice-mp9927-pg-208-mp8320-mep-933-the-7-11-club




Already have em  A great sounding iem, but I would still take the ANV.

Edit:

Some crappy ANV innards pics. Poor little guy...


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Already have em  A great sounding iem, but I would still take the ANV.




Titan 1 huh ? ....now sure would like to hear that your impression on them ...cheers


----------



## Ira Delphic

ira delphic said:


> ilikeiem said:
> 
> 
> > ira delphic said:
> ...


 
  
 I just ordered 3 more pairs of the KZ R1 for around $4 each. Another for me and the other two for family/gf. Sound isolation with stock tips not so good, but_ very_ comfortable to wear - don't go deep into ear canals. Also lightweight. The most similar IEM is the Philips SHE3590BK and the R1 is even smaller and IMO better SQ. And I have Philips SHE3590BK.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Titan 1 huh ? ....now sure would like to hear that your impression on them ...cheers




If I do, it'll be mid-way through the year most likely. I will definitely post my impressions.

My new ANV and CM9 have been shipped! Now to wait....impatiently, lol.


----------



## bhazard

Got my ED8 today. So far so good. Same similar super bass signature that needs the right tips to shine.


----------



## B9Scrambler

With more use the driver flex on the R3 has greatly diminished. Its still there in abundance, but you can at least move without crinkle city central rearing its ugly head.

For those the have UE foam tips and the R3, try them out. They smooth out the highs spectacularly, and then....wow. These are some beautiful sounding little chums.

*Edit: These are awesome for 90s rap/hip hop/breaks. They perfectly encapsulate the confidence, swagger, and general attitude that many artists of the era were going for. Nice strong mid presence backed by that thundering bass....*drool*. The R3 are wayyyyyy better than the EDse, for my personal tastes at least.


----------



## BigGearHunter

b9scrambler said:


> With more use the driver flex on the R3 has greatly diminished. Its still there in abundance, but you can at least move without crinkle city central rearing its ugly head.
> 
> For those the have UE foam tips and the R3, try them out. They smooth out the highs spectacularly, and then....wow. These are some beautiful sounding little chums.
> 
> *Edit: These are awesome for 90s rap/hip hop/breaks. They perfectly encapsulate the confidence, swagger, and general attitude that many artists of the era were going for. Nice strong mid presence backed by that thundering bass....*drool*. The R3 are wayyyyyy better than the EDse, for my personal tastes at least.


 

 And how about that lovely cable? It's one of my most used IEMs just because I like the sound, fit and the cable is super nice. I find the R3 to be largely underrated.


----------



## anduril

R3 are around $20, right?


----------



## goa604

"kz earphone official flagship store" scammed me. EDSE broke into two pieces as soon as i put it in my ear, I opened a dispute, agreed with them to close the dispute because they will send me another headphones. I closed the dispute because there was 10 hours left and i didnt want to get money back and them sending headphones. 
 As soon as i closed it they started acting like they dont know me. 
 All this after i waited over a month for the package.


----------



## B9Scrambler

biggearhunter said:


> And how about that lovely cable? It's one of my most used IEMs just because I like the sound, fit and the cable is super nice. I find the R3 to be largely underrated.




I agree with you on all fronts there. Outside of the issues I've had with the left driver (guessing they were damaged in shipping or before?) they are easily one of my favorite iems.

I originally paid 14 CAD. Had opened a dispute given they were useless when they first came in due to the distortion. Instead of asking for a refund, I asked to buy another pair at a slightly reduced cost since the cable and carrying case were fine. They just refunded me 100% instead... not expected, lol.

The wicked driver flex is annoying as heck, but manageable for relaxed listening. Forget using them outside of the house/work.


----------



## ilikeiem

goa604 said:


> "kz earphone official flagship store" scammed me. EDSE broke into two pieces as soon as i put it in my ear, I opened a dispute, agreed with them to close the dispute because they will send me another headphones. I closed the dispute because there was 10 hours left and i didnt want to get money back and them sending headphones.
> As soon as i closed it they started acting like they dont know me.
> All this after i waited over a month for the package.


 
 I bought a lot of IEMs from this store  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688  
 No problem at all. The seller can be trusted.


----------



## goa604

I hope you never receive a defective product. 
 I have been exchanging messages with them for week and a half trying to get them to send a new pair and now they tell me 
 that almost 2 weeks have passed and they cant trust me i broke them in those two weeks. So smug.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goa604 said:


> "kz earphone official flagship store" scammed me. EDSE broke into two pieces as soon as i put it in my ear, I opened a dispute, agreed with them to close the dispute because they will send me another headphones. I closed the dispute because there was 10 hours left and i didnt want to get money back and them sending headphones.
> As soon as i closed it they started acting like they dont know me.
> All this after i waited over a month for the package.


 
 One of the housings of the Micro Ring I bought from them split in two when I first got it. The tips they provided were also useless (large and small were for a standard iem, the mediums were torn). I didn't bother disputing the purchase since I had replacement tips and was able to glue the housing. I did end up disputing my LPS purchase from them as one of the earpads were burnt and didn't fit the earcup. They were pretty good about that dispute (although the language barrier was a bit of a hurdle) and sent me a replacement pad immediately. Sorry you had a poor experience with them.
  
 On the plus side, KZ/g.k eye candy!

  


 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJs_XNtU-NsTN2Fk2utkebg (SubSil3nt Podcast....awesome long EDM mixes)


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler...how is the woody R3 .....you like them ..btw ...nice pics 

Edit ...me burn in them long time before using them ..they sound much better after that ..cheers


----------



## goa604

b9scrambler said:


> One of the housings of the Micro Ring I bought from them split in two when I first got it. The tips they provided were also useless (large and small were for a standard iem, the mediums were torn). I didn't bother disputing the purchase since I had replacement tips and was able to glue the housing. I did end up disputing my LPS purchase from them as one of the earpads were burnt and didn't fit the earcup. They were pretty good about that dispute (although the language barrier was a bit of a hurdle) and sent me a replacement pad immediately. Sorry you had a poor experience with them....


 glad im in minority then.


----------



## Ira Delphic

goa604 said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > One of the housings of the Micro Ring I bought from them split in two when I first got it. The tips they provided were also useless (large and small were for a standard iem, the mediums were torn). I didn't bother disputing the purchase since I had replacement tips and was able to glue the housing. I did end up disputing my LPS purchase from them as one of the earpads were burnt and didn't fit the earcup. They were pretty good about that dispute (although the language barrier was a bit of a hurdle) and sent me a replacement pad immediately. Sorry you had a poor experience with them....
> ...


 
  
 A few days ago I was tip rolling the DT3 and the plastic housing of the DT3 separated. I snapped it into place and it's OK now. The driver is still connected thank goodness.


----------



## goa604

ira delphic said:


> A few days ago I was tip rolling the DT3 and the plastic housing of the DT3 separated. I snapped it into place and it's OK now. The driver is still connected thank goodness.


seems to me they lack in quality department then. I guess its bigger problem than i thought.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> @B9Scrambler...how is the woody R3 .....you like them ..btw ...nice pics
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I love em. You can really change the sound using a variety of tips. The UE foamies make them really warm...everything floats on a cushion of super smooth bass. The oldschool Skullcandy tips you see in the above pictures make them almost balanced as you don't quite get a full seal. Normally the lack of a great seal would bother me, but with R3 it just works. I like the sound with Sony Hybrids (bassy and a bit brighter than the UE foamies), but the seal is just too good so it exacerbates the left side's driver flex to an unbearable amount. I tried the Complys that are on the EDse, but they make the R3 sound horrible; dull and muddy.
  
 So far the EDse is my least favourite of the KZ/g.k iems I've tried. Going back to it from the R3 and Micro Ring really emphasizes my dislike of their treble. They sound very splashy. Keep in mind that I really like the EDse, just nowhere near to the extent of the R3 and Micro Ring.
  
 I think the R3 may best the Micro Ring as my top pick, but it's hard to tell at this point. The ANV with the bonus filter and Sony tips is also fantastic....makes it really hard to pick a favourite, especially since they are all so different.
  
 So far: R3 = Micro Ring > ANV (with filter add-on) > EDse


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler....thanks for impressions ....me think me know why ....the kind of treble you like is smooth whereas EDSE is kind of bright and like you say splashy .....probably CM9 ...me hope you will like them cuz they be slightly brighter than R3 wee bit but fingers crossed ...hope I am right ..cuz we kinda like similar KZ models ...haha


----------



## Dasbo

Just got my r3's and r1!!! Oh god I'm glad I did bought them, both sound wonderful in their own ways, none of them is actually more detailed than the kz Ed, BUT, they have a nicer bass and more smooth highs, damn I like them.
And I'm also surprised about the r1's I actually expected them to be meh at beast but they do sound so nice, I don't know if it's me but I would bet they have a v shaped signature or likely, they kinda remind me a pair of Philips I used a while ago, which also had a pretty nice sq for the price.

Now I'm wondering, what should I buy? Dt5 pole edition or the ed8? I wish I could buy both but at this right second I can just buy one, thoughts?


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> B9Scrambler....thanks for impressions ....me think me know why ....the kind of treble you like is smooth whereas EDSE is kind of bright and like you say splashy .....probably CM9 ...me hope you will like them cuz they be slightly brighter than R3 wee bit but fingers crossed ...hope I am right ..cuz we kinda like similar KZ models ...haha




I really do like nice bright treble (JVC is my favorite brand...for now), I just like it to be more defined and controlled that that which the EDse outputs. The FRD60 is super bright, but the treble in very well controlled. Different price league entirely, but still...

The ANV hit the nail on the head with the added filter cleaning up the treble perfectly. They were great after that; large soundstage, punchy bass with enough sub bass rumble, bright but not really simblant ever, and nice forward mids. They just sounded artificial up top....something I was happy to put up with.

The Micro Ring does everything well, but that slight veil they have holds them back a touch IMO.

The R3's nasty driver flex and massive bass are the only things stopping me from saying they are truly outstanding, since those are two things that are an immediate no-go for many people.


----------



## anduril

Just reversed my EDSE by mistake and while inserting I finally understood what driver flex is. The change of pressure while getting the seal makes it crackle/pop a lot.
 But maybe it's caused by my son plugging the minijack into one of the nozzles (I think this one), so I'm not blaming KZ's QC.
  
 Does it influence the sound while listening to music, or is it only heard when the phone moves relative to the ear?


----------



## goa604

anduril said:


> Just reversed my EDSE by mistake and while inserting I finally understood what driver flex is. The change of pressure while getting the seal makes it crackle/pop a lot.
> But maybe it's caused by my son plugging the minijack into one of the nozzles (I think this one), so I'm not blaming KZ's QC.
> 
> Does it influence the sound while listening to music, or is it only heard when the phone moves relative to the ear?


 
 Happens on my EDSE and R3 as well when inserting.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dasbo said:


> Just got my r3's and* r1*!!! Oh god I'm glad I did bought them, both sound wonderful in their own ways, none of them is actually more detailed than the kz Ed, BUT, they have a nicer bass and more smooth highs, damn I like them.
> And I'm also surprised about the r1's I actually expected them to be meh at beast but they do sound so nice, I don't know if it's me but I would bet they have a v shaped signature or likely, they kinda remind me a pair of Philips I used a while ago, which also had a pretty nice sq for the price.
> 
> Now I'm wondering, what should I buy? Dt5 pole edition or the ed8? I wish I could buy both but at this right second I can just buy one, thoughts?


 
  
  
 The R1 is really nice SQ, and very comfortable. Hard to believe it's from the same company as the ES, ED8 and ED Special Edition....the R1 so light and compact.


----------



## EISENbricher

My own EDSE arrived today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  the previous one, I gifted to a friend. As expected, just like the previous one this one haunted me right away, out of the box : ) 
 IMO this specific model's sound sig totally matches my preference. I find it just too natural and likable. Only Tenores manages to better these as per my own taste. (Havi too neutral and T1E is fatiguing after some use). Plus, I love EDSE's bass a little more than Tenore's. EDSE's is bass is not that refined but fast and punchy.


----------



## Dasbo

So what's your KZ ranking guys?!


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> B9Scrambler
> 
> Edit ...me burn in them long time before using them ..they sound much better after that ..cheers




Extended play time has really smoothed these out all around. Don't need the foamies to tame the treble anymore. I'm going to have to buy another pair that doesn't have the driver issues of this set. I want to properly enjoy them.  My VSD3 are seeing no playtime right now. hehe


----------



## Wokei

dasbo said:


> So what's your KZ ranking guys?!




Me ranking or in my case...me fav in no particular order would be R3,Micro Ring,ANV,CM9 and EDSE...cuz with different dap and music genre...it provides me preferred synergy ...Cheers


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Me ranking or in my case...me fav in no particular order would be R3,Micro Ring,ANV,CM9 and EDSE...cuz with different dap and music genre...it provides me preferred synergy ...Cheers




lol...I have a feeling my list (once the CM9 arrives) will be eerily similar to what you just posted...in that exact order. Maybe swap the R3 and Micro Ring....still haven't decided on those two.


----------



## Wokei

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/2012479374.html?productId=2012479374&productSubject=-&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

Just saw this for 15$ for dual driver..look interesting..Cheers


----------



## goa604

I would put EDSE above R3.  R3 has some sweet sweet bass but it sounds kinda muddy while EDSE has a nice clean sound.
 I do like them both though and switch between the two depending on my mood.
 edit: id also like to add that R3 cant keep up with fast bass at all. Its good for trap/rap and such music with longer bass notes. 
still worth the $


----------



## anduril

wokei said:


> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/2012479374.html?productId=2012479374&productSubject=-&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail
> 
> Just saw this for 15$ for dual driver..look interesting..Cheers


 

 DO I SEE A HAND IN THE AIR?


----------



## ilikeiem

anduril said:


> DO I SEE A HAND IN THE AIR?


 
 Is it really $15?   It's not KZ iem.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> Is it really $15?   It's not KZ iem.




Its still interesting *shrug*


----------



## Wokei

anduril said:


> DO I SEE A HAND IN THE AIR?







b9scrambler said:


> Its still interesting *shrug*




No ..its not a KZ model ...just thought it would interest bargain hunter around here ....anybody jumping in ...cheers :rolleyes:


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> No ..its not a KZ model ...just thought it would interest bargain hunter around here ....anybody jumping in ...cheers :rolleyes:




I would like to, but I need to save up for those Titans...they belong in my collection, and hopefully would make the majority of my stuff obsolete, lol.

Also, after much internal debate the Micro Ring are still my fav KZ. They're just too nice. Love these little guys. The R3 is real close, however, the driver flex in my pair hurt the experience.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> I would like to, but I need to save up for those Titans...they belong in my collection, and hopefully would make the majority of my stuff obsolete, lol.
> 
> Also, after much internal debate the Micro Ring are still my fav KZ. They're just too nice. Love these little guys. The R3 is real close, however, the driver flex in my pair hurt the experience.




Yup ..same thought exactly ...currently narrow down to DUNU 1K or Fidue A83 .....furthermore no budget at all for small purchases as just got me self iBasso DX90 ..so really surviving on Ramen Noodle and oxygen now .....woot woot .....


----------



## ilikeiem

wokei said:


> No ..its not a KZ model ...just thought it would interest bargain hunter around here ....anybody jumping in ...cheers


 
 Thanks for your recommendation. I've just place an order.


----------



## Wokei

ilikeiem said:


> Thanks for your recommendation. I've just place an order. :rolleyes:




Be sure to report them once you received them...cheers


----------



## anduril

Anyone with an iron and some soldering skills that wants to try this with a KZ IEM? I might if the SQ from Bluedio S2 that I'm ordering doesn't satisfy me 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/725675/diy-sennheiser-ie-8-with-bluetooth-4-0-and-apt-x
  
 I found the S2 for ~$14!
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bluedio-Energy-S2-Bluetooth-4-0-Sports-Headset-Stereo-Earphone-Wireless-Headphones-Earbuds-Built-in-Water/32255693474.html
  
 There are also other BT sets like Bluedio N2, but not sure they support APT-X.


----------



## Chavecat

Finally got my GR and EDSE. They're kinda underwhelming, but I literally just got them 25 minutes ago, so I'll gather my thoughts for a bit more before deciding whether I like them or not.


----------



## mebaali

With over 100 hours of burn-in and use of Comply foam (T-400) tips, EDSE is my go to phones these days (not touching my ES at all, which used to be my favt among the two till last week) . They sound incredibly well in all departments. Now I can understand why many here in this thread are going gaga over these phones.


----------



## EISENbricher

Just received my ED8 today. Wow, this earphone might be the KZs best. While I haven't heard many of KZ's models yet except EDSE, this betters EDSE by a noticeable wide margin. That too, out of the box. If these manage to level up even more after burn in then I just can't imagine how higher they are raising price/performance ratio.
  
 Some members have said that these sound bassy, well these are. But no bloat and the bass is not overwhelming at all. Highs are smooth, mids are good. These sound fuller and have warm sound signature. The details are good and soundstage is also nice for this price.
  
 Will post my detailed thoughts after at least 100hrs on these babies. Otherwise it would be kind of injustice.
  
 BQ wise cable is good (Almost similar to EDSE), Y split is better relieved than EDSE. The earpieces are large and heavy. They look like frankenstein bolts stuck in your ears. If you step on these be ready to cry in pain because the sharp edge from back of earpiece might poke you hard. Body design inspired by medieval torture weapons.
  
  
  
 Quote:


mebaali said:


> With over 100 hours of burn-in and use of Comply foam (T-400) tips, EDSE is my go to phones these days (not touching my ES at all, which used to be my favt among the two till last week) . They sound incredibly well in all departments. Now I can understand why many here in this thread are going gaga over these phones.


 
 EDSE are my loved phones as well. I use them daily during my commute, and whenever I'm outside (Since Tenores are too fragile). I just love EDSEs. Can't say after today though, ED8 are even more amazing!


----------



## Dasbo

eisenbricher said:


> EDSE are my loved phones as well. I use them daily during my commute, and whenever I'm outside (Since Tenores are too fragile). I just love EDSEs. Can't say after today though, ED8 are even more amazing!



Just saw you have the soundsoul lol.
Well then, so, out of the box do you think ed8 are good? What did you liked more out of the box, the soundsoul or the ed8


----------



## EISENbricher

dasbo said:


> Just saw you have the soundsoul lol.
> Well then, so, out of the box do you think ed8 are good? What did you liked more out of the box, the soundsoul or the ed8


 
 lol if you see closer, SoundSoul is 'coming soon'. I'll receive it within one or two weeks. I have no doubts about SoundSoul's great capabilities but I have to listen is personally, then I can tell.
  
 I'll post my thoughts on SoundSoul vs EDSE vs ED8 here once I receive it.


----------



## altrunox

The earphones that I gave for my GF was stolen, so I gave her my LPS yesterday, she loved it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 She also found it more comfortable than the Takstar Pro 80, I don't know how but anyways...


----------



## Ira Delphic

mebaali said:


> With over 100 hours of burn-in and use of* Comply foam (T-400)* tips, EDSE is my go to phones these days (not touching my ES at all, which used to be my favt among the two till last week) . They sound incredibly well in all departments. Now I can understand why many here in this thread are going gaga over these phones.


 
  
 Don't forget this thread.
  
 It's easy and inexpensive to make your own custom foam tips!


----------



## EISENbricher

ED8 pics... This is the Red version, I'll be getting blue as well in some days. Impressions so far have been good. They sound detailed but I had to eq down bass a little and use wide bore tips. Still better sounding than EDSE.


----------



## Dasbo

eisenbricher said:


> ED8 pics... This is the Red version, I'll be getting blue as well in some days. Impressions so far have been good. They sound detailed but I had to eq down bass a little and use wide bore tips. Still better sounding than EDSE.


 
 I MUST NOT BUY.
 I MUST RESIST.


----------



## bhazard

The ED8 is very good with EQ. Drop midbass down around 200hz -3db, and increase 1k and up by +3db or more


----------



## bhazard

KZ-LP3. Looks like a PU leather banded Koss Portapro with jamaican color lines.
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-218018788.32.0orEsI&id=43686790602


----------



## Dasbo

bhazard said:


> KZ-LP3. Looks like a PU leather banded Koss Portapro with jamaican color lines.
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-218018788.32.0orEsI&id=43686790602



Wow those looks really good


----------



## EISENbricher

dasbo said:


> I MUST NOT BUY.
> I MUST RESIST.


 
 Buy while the sale lasts 
 Only $7, best deal evah.


bhazard said:


> The ED8 is very good with EQ. Drop midbass down around 200hz -3db, and increase 1k and up by +3db or more


 
 Exactly lol... I've set very similar EQ setting for ED8.


----------



## robervaul

> 
  
  
  
                   SoundSoul S-018                                                     >                          Tenore  > EDSE > DT3 > ES


----------



## Stovokor

Is it me, or do these look suspiciously KZ-esque?
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S2P0M1C?psc=1


----------



## altrunox

bhazard said:


> KZ-LP3. Looks like a PU leather banded Koss Portapro with jamaican color lines.
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-218018788.32.0orEsI&id=43686790602


 
 Wait, 96 yuans = 16 dollars?! If they appear for US$20 on aliexpress store I'll get one! 
  


stovokor said:


> Is it me, or do these look suspiciously KZ-esque?
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S2P0M1C?psc=1


 
 LOL, they have a lot of products that looks like somes from KZ


----------



## dilidani

Yesterday received my DT3&EDSE I ordered in the middle of December. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - EDSE looks and feels SUPERB! Dat cable, dat bulky jack strain relief, those earpieces. WOW! Sounds is quite nice out of the box, airy (I'm only having bassheavy IEMs so nice to have something different, even if its so cheap)!

 - DT3 looks a bit cheaper but still a go in build quality. Nice plastic, super light. Sound is muddy, i guess it needs a lot of burn-in. Now I should look for proper tips to use them. Thanks guys, this thread is amazing!


----------



## EISENbricher

dilidani said:


> Yesterday received my DT3&EDSE I ordered in the middle of December.
> 
> 
> - EDSE looks and feels SUPERB! Dat cable, dat bulky jack strain relief, those earpieces. WOW! Sounds is quite nice out of the box, airy (I'm only having bassheavy IEMs so nice to have something different, even if its so cheap)!
> ...



Another lover of EDSE


----------



## ilikeiem

My KZ-ED8 configuration


----------



## Lawstorant

Yeah, I think that every single KZ IEM is a ripoff.
  
 Still, as long as they sound great, I don't really care 
  
 Waiting for LP2 price drop. If they'll cost around 30$ I'll get them.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> My KZ-ED8 configuration


 
 My EDSE approves


----------



## anduril

OK, my google-fu failed. Where can you get those over-ear plastic thingies? Doesn't look like DIY...


----------



## EISENbricher

anduril said:


> OK, my google-fu failed. Where can you get those over-ear plastic thingies? Doesn't look like DIY...



I got mine with havi b3, but lunashop sells it. Search 'ear hook' on it.


----------



## summerbreeze

guys i bought the EDSE for 5.76 usd, just used the aliexpress mobile app on android.


----------



## Dasbo

Does anybody knows a good equalizer for iOS 8?
I know it's nor the place, but I'm kinda newbie to iOS 8...


----------



## EISENbricher

summerbreeze said:


> guys i bought the EDSE for 5.76 usd, just used the aliexpress mobile app on android.


 
 Yeah! Mobile site of Ali offers more discount. Cheers.


----------



## Koolpep

dilidani said:


> Yesterday received my DT3&EDSE I ordered in the middle of December.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just received my EDSE too. Impressive sound for the money. I am very surprised what you can get these days of such bargain prices. I paid $15 including shipping crazy.
  
 And it might be overkill but I am listening to them on my AK100 with Gloveaudio A1 and they sound stellar. Interstellar even. 
  
 No I just need to remember which color is right and which is left....


----------



## Wokei

koolpep said:


> Just received my EDSE too. Impressive sound for the money. I am very surprised what you can get these days of such bargain prices. I paid $15 including shipping crazy.
> 
> And it might be overkill but I am listening to them on my AK100 with Gloveaudio A1 and they sound stellar. Interstellar even.
> 
> No I just need to remember which color is right and which is left....




Red is right..blue is left..cheers


----------



## Koolpep

wokei said:


> Red is right..blue is left..cheers


 
  
 Thanks!!
  
 Theoretically I knew that, practically I am still every time looking at the colors and think: duh? Thankfully I followed the same color scheme on my custom cables that I have on order (man think about it if I would have messed that up, haha).
  
 So, I think I need this *R*ed is *R*ight thought-bridge to remember...


----------



## EISENbricher

koolpep said:


> Just received my EDSE too. Impressive sound for the money. I am very surprised what you can get these days of such bargain prices. I paid $15 including shipping crazy.
> 
> And it might be overkill but I am listening to them on my AK100 with Gloveaudio A1 and they sound stellar. Interstellar even.
> 
> No I just need to remember which color is right and which is left....


 
 If $15 with shipping is crazy then how about $6.25 with shipping? 
 Yeah KZ official store was selling EDSE for this price for past week : )


----------



## Koolpep

eisenbricher said:


> If $15 with shipping is crazy then how about $6.25 with shipping?
> Yeah KZ official store was selling EDSE for this price for past week : )


 

 Bloody hell! What a deal!! I missed that. What's the official store URL? don't want to miss the next deal...
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## EISENbricher

koolpep said:


> Bloody hell! What a deal!! I missed that. What's the official store URL? don't want to miss the next deal...
> 
> Cheers,
> K


 
 Wow you didn't see it? ED8 was for $7, DT3 was for $8.38 and so... They were running 30% discount on all of their products.
  
 Well, let  you know next time if they run any such sale.
  
 This is official store URL : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688
  
 Even without any discount EDSE is under $10 ~


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Wow you didn't see it? ED8 was for $7, DT3 was for $8.38 and so... They were running 30% discount on all of their products.
> 
> Well, let  you know next time if they run any such sale.
> 
> ...


 
 And if you use aliexpress mobile application, you will have more discount. At that time KZ-R1 was only $3.77


----------



## ilikeiem

dasbo said:


> Does anybody knows a good equalizer for iOS 8?
> I know it's nor the place, but I'm kinda newbie to iOS 8...


 
 I have Onkyo HF Player (FREE), EQu, CanOpener (Pencil Equalizer), Accudio Pro (Parametric Equalizer), RADSONE (10 bands dynamic equalizer).
  
 You may try Onkyo HF Player first coz it's FREE.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> koolpep said:
> 
> 
> > Bloody hell! What a deal!! I missed that. What's the official store URL? don't want to miss the next deal...
> ...


 
  
 The ED8 is still $7 if you know where to look!


----------



## Hisoundfi

I have to admit, these KZED8 are growing on me a little. I like the top end presentation. 
  
 If it was a little less bloated and sluggish in the bass area, I would put it up there with the KZEDSE. I hear some really good mids with very  good texture. Only problem is that it's a little too much overshadowed with wooly bass.
  
 If they tighten up the bass on the ED9 they will have a real winner on their hands.
  
 Speaking of which, they jumped from ED3 to ED8. Where is the ED4 through ED7? LOL
  
 It's another solid buy from KZ.
  
 Head fi over and out.


----------



## Wokei

Baycode has the Havi B6 in his hand ...impression will follow soon .....fyi ....cheers


----------



## ndburley

who is copying? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S2P0M4Y?psc=1


----------



## Ira Delphic

ndburley said:


> who is copying? http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S2P0M4Y?psc=1


 
  
 Likely made by KZ. Also I bet those reviews are fake.


----------



## bhazard

ira delphic said:


> Likely made by KZ. Also I bet those reviews are fake.


 
 KZ is most likely the OEM.


----------



## DisCHORDDubstep

bhazard said:


> KZ is most likely the OEM.


I didn't think KZ had any way to really be able to get in contact with them. :/


----------



## Dasbo

ira delphic said:


> Likely made by KZ. Also I bet those reviews are fake.



Why would you think that?
They certainly will satisfy 99% of general population!!! *wink* *wink*


----------



## EISENbricher

After burn in and hours of testing I finally conclude this... EDSE are better than ED8. Bloated bass is a disappointment on ED8. I used widest bore tips that I had but they couldn't do much.
 EDSE still my fav from KZ ~


----------



## Wokei

Me KZ LP2


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Me KZ LP2


 

 So jelly! Those are gorgeous. How do they sound compared to the LPS?


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler....they sure have that "SWAG" factor ....they had some work done on them 



Never had the LPS ..so cant comment on how different they are ....as for LP2 ..it is a good buy for 26$ or not more than 30$ during one of those crazy KZ sales ...but not me kind of sound sig ...but think they will appeal to bass head or for EDM genre kind of music ....imo the bass bloat bleeds into the mid though the details is there but the bass and sub bass is too dominant to really enjoy ...but for the price and specific music genre ...they rock


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> @B9Scrambler....they sure have that "SWAG" factor ....they had some work done on them
> 
> 
> 
> Never had the LPS ..so cant comment on how different they are ....as for LP2 ..it is a good buy for 26$ or not more than 30$ during one of those crazy KZ sales ...but not me kind of sound sig ...but think they will appeal to bass head or for EDM genre kind of music ....imo the bass bloat bleeds into the mid though the details is there but the bass and sub bass is too dominant to really enjoy ...but for the price and specific music genre ...they rock


 

 Very nice 
  
 Your description makes them sound a lot like the LPS, so I wouldn't be shocked if they shared the same drivers/tuning.


----------



## EISENbricher

Another sale of KZ started... no big discounts but still less than usual prices.
  
 http://es.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/1358152.html
  
  
 Also, White KZ-RX look intriguing... any thoughts on its sound??
  
 http://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-rx-music-earphone-phone-headset-HIFI-headphones-bass-headset-Andrews-universal-headset/1380688_32220130013.html


----------



## Hisoundfi

eisenbricher said:


> Another sale of KZ started... no big discounts but still less than usual prices.
> 
> http://es.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/1358152.html
> 
> ...


It's one of KZ's worst offerings IMHO. Lots of sluggish bass and not much else.


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Another sale of KZ started... no big discounts but still less than usual prices.
> ...


 
  
 How long has the RX been out?  KZ appears to be going sideways lately. Nothing significantly superior to the EDSE, which is a shame.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ira delphic said:


> How long has the RX been out?  KZ appears to be going sideways lately. Nothing significantly superior to the EDSE, which is a shame.




Pretty sure the RX is an older one.


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> It's one of KZ's worst offerings IMHO. Lots of sluggish bass and not much else.


 
 Oops lol ok... I guess a no go then.


----------



## ndburley

hisoundfi said:


> It's one of KZ's worst offerings IMHO. Lots of sluggish bass and not much else.


 
 These are rubbish in my opinion, I gave the RX to my daughter and she replaced them with JVC XE. The RX is like listening to music in mud...your head in mud....with a festival in the background...while having your head under water listening to a loud radio in the bath. I dislike these a lot.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ndburley said:


> These are rubbish in my opinion, I gave the RX to my daughter and she replaced them with JVC XE. The RX is like listening to music in mud...your head in mud....with a festival in the background...while having your head under water listening to a loud radio in the bath. I dislike these a lot.


 

 They do have one plus though; they look neat


----------



## EISENbricher

ndburley said:


> These are rubbish in my opinion, I gave the RX to my daughter and she replaced them with JVC XE. The RX is like listening to music in mud...your head in mud....with a festival in the background...while having your head under water listening to a loud radio in the bath. I dislike these a lot.



Your daughter must have hated you for this lol


----------



## ilikeiem

I always see people talking about bloated bass, boomy bass on KZ iems. So I take a look at head-fi glossary. 
  
*Bloated* - Excessive mid bass around 250 Hz. Poorly damped low frequencies, low frequency resonances.
*Boomy* - Excessive bass around 125 Hz. Poorly damped low frequencies or low frequency resonances.
  
 What kind of method you use to measure and know that it's bloated or boomy?
 My favorite hobby is singing. I still find it hard to work with low frequency. LOL... look like I'm a bad singer.
  
 That's really make me wonder.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I always see people talking about bloated bass, boomy bass on KZ iems. So I take a look at head-fi glossary.
> 
> *Bloated* - Excessive mid bass around 250 Hz. Poorly damped low frequencies, low frequency resonances.
> *Boomy* - Excessive bass around 125 Hz. Poorly damped low frequencies or low frequency resonances.
> ...


 
 Well that comes with a little experience... but the easiest thing to do would be to check the effect of lowering eq bands of 125 and 250 and see what effect they make.


----------



## nimrodiny

KZ ED Special edition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what a nice surprise for $8!


----------



## Hisoundfi

nimrodiny said:


> KZ ED Special edition :basshead:  what a nice surprise for $8!


The fact that these continue to be brought up over and over is a testament to how good they are, both in build quality and fidelity. 

They are really one of the best audio deals to come out in the last year.


----------



## nimrodiny

hisoundfi said:


> The fact that these continue to be brought up over and over is a testament to how good they are, both in build quality and fidelity.
> 
> They are really one of the best audio deals to come out in the last year.




Seriously! Out of the box they sound just great, cable is real nice and the packaging is also on the high end side. What more can you ask for?


----------



## EISENbricher

Ordered 2 edse today... I am in love with these and I can't even imagine losing these lol.

Good thing is that my love is priced so cheap  

I like em as much as my Tenores, but for all genres except classical and vocal I like EDSE. 

Little tip, they fit really well and produce close to none cable noise if wore behind the ear. You'll need an ear guide though.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ilikeiem said:


> I always see people talking about bloated bass, boomy bass on KZ iems. So I take a look at head-fi glossary.
> 
> *Bloated* - Excessive mid bass around 250 Hz. Poorly damped low frequencies, low frequency resonances.
> *Boomy* - Excessive bass around 125 Hz. Poorly damped low frequencies or low frequency resonances.
> ...


 
 This frequency range (125-250 Hz) is where The bass meets the midrange. If an IEM is tuned so that this frequency range is elevated, it will make male vocals, and some instruments and sounds seem overly bassy. I'll even go as far as saying that it extends a little beyond that frequency range in both directions. Also, depending on the speed at which a driver depicts sound can play, an elevated frequency range from the lowest frequencies of bass up to the midrange in combination with a driver that has slower response (attack and decay), will make the lower midrange (AKA mid bass) to seem to be slightly distorted. That is what many on here refer to as mid bass bleed.
  
 I don't mind mid bass as long as the driver speed is fast enough to keep up without distorting the tuning. Others look to find gear that has very little mid bass all together.
  
 Again, this all comes down to preference. If you like something that others say is boomy or bloated, all that means is that they don't like it and you do. It's not right or wrong by either individual, but a matter of two people preferring a different tuning.
  
 Cheers


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Well that comes with a little experience... but the easiest thing to do would be to check the effect of lowering eq bands of 125 and 250 and see what effect they make.


 
 I know all about EQ topic since I can write software equalizer on iOS. I wonder how they know that the sound that is playing has boomy bass. Do they have high accuracy reference sound sample? Do they have very good bass instrument, play it and compare with the reference sound sample?  And not much people talk about DAC they use when they say this IEM has boomy bass. This really make me wonder. LOL... They must have golden ear, well trained ear.


----------



## ilikeiem

hisoundfi said:


> Again, this all comes down to preference. If you like something that others say is boomy or bloated, all that means is that they don't like it and you do. It's not right or wrong by either individual, but a matter of two people preferring a different tuning.
> 
> Cheers


 
 I really like this paragraph. Very touching. Also thanks for your detailed answer.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I know all about EQ topic since I can write software equalizer on iOS. I wonder how they know that the sound that is playing has boomy bass. Do they have high accuracy reference sound sample? Do they have very good bass instrument, play it and compare with the reference sound sample?  And not much people talk about DAC they use when they say this IEM has boomy bass. This really make me wonder. LOL... They must have golden ear, well trained ear.


 
 No, no!! Forget imperfections in electronics, recording methods, etc, etc. I definitely agree that those factors do matter, but whenever someone is claiming something about the audio impressions, he's definitely comparing it with references. More the references, chances that the result is closer to accurate. 
  
 For example, consider a person stranded on a boat, in mid of sea and he wants to know the directions. His best bet would be the Sun. Add up another reference like a star, and the accuracy goes up, and so on.
  
 One should also take into consideration a general opinion. When a bunch of people express their opinion on some earphone it is as good as 'averaging' all the factors you have mentioned. IMO it's not bad idea at all to find the common link between multiple people's impressions.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> One should also take into consideration a general opinion. When a bunch of people express their opinion on some earphone it is as good as 'averaging' all the factors you have mentioned. IMO it's not bad idea at all to find the common link between multiple people's impressions.


 
 I really like this paragraph. Thanks for your answer my friend.  
  
 I like singing, last 10 years I tried very hard to train my ears in order to hear the correct bass note. But just a couple of weeks ago when I join this community. I read many people opinions. Their opinions make me surprised.  Wowwww.... How did they do that?  So many well trained ears around here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Love all KZ IEMs.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I really like this paragraph. Thanks for your answer my friend.
> 
> I like singing, last 10 years I tried very hard to train my ears in order to hear the correct bass note. But just a couple of weeks ago when I join this community. I read many people opinions. Their opinions make me surprised.  Wowwww.... How did they do that?  So many well trained ears around here.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for understanding : ) 
  
 Oh cool! Good to know that you are a singer.
  
 Hmm... Audiophiles REALLY are critical of what they hear. I bet an average audiophile would get as much frustrated as you if your bass player's bass isn't tuned well. Super hard to satisfy demanding audiophile needs lol...


----------



## EISENbricher

Cool news... KZ official store started discounts again : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688


----------



## slowpickr

My ED8s should arrive later today. Yeee hawwww!


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> My ED8s should arrive later today. Yeee hawwww!


 
 Cool! Post your impressions. As per my impressions they are bassy. But using eq adjust it works good.
 Also they sounded fantastic on a colder source (My secondary phone's output is kinda cold. I primarily use my main phone's output, which is warmish)


----------



## Dasbo

eisenbricher said:


> Cool news... KZ official store started discounts again : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688



I don't see any discount.


----------



## EISENbricher

dasbo said:


> I don't see any discount.



It was there! I think the listing ended after my post... I even made purchase during discount period.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I have more than one pair of the ED8 - won a contest on December. I finally opened a box and did some testing. First, these things are big, but thankfully not so heavy. But they are so huge, no matter how they are inserted they touch my ear. Not comfortable. I wasn't able to wear them for more than 20 minutes at a time. The high end, treble is just fine. As good as EDSE. Mids ok - not recessed. The bass is muddy, indistinct pretty bad even with EQ adjustment (Poweramp app on LG G3). These are basshead IEM's - best way to describe them. And that is not my preferred sound in an IEM. When I got the GR07 - chose the classic over the BE and never regretted it, _so take my assessment overall with a grain of sand_. 
  
 I won't get into the aesthetics - look, design, color. You don't need my opinion on that.
  
 I assume that they would sound much better with a wide bore tip - to de-emphasize the bass, but since they are uncomfortable (huge) I'm in no rush to try tip rolling.
  
 I still like my EDSE, R1 (love those too - way under appreciated) and also the DT3, although my DT3 did fall apart and I had to snap it back together. I don't know What KZ was thinking when they designed these. For the ED8 my main criticism is the humongous size. My second is the muddy, over emphasized bass.


----------



## goa604

ira delphic said:


> ... although my DT3 did fall apart and I had to snap it back together.


 
 Another victim of **** glue kz uses on their earphones. 
 My broke right away and they refuse to replace them.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> I have more than one pair of the ED8 - won a contest on December. I finally opened a box and did some testing. First, these things are big, but thankfully not so heavy. But they are so huge, no matter how they are inserted they touch my ear. Not comfortable. I wasn't able to wear them for more than 20 minutes at a time. The high end, treble is just fine. As good as EDSE. Mids ok - not recessed. The bass is muddy, indistinct pretty bad even with EQ adjustment (Poweramp app on LG G3). These are basshead IEM's - best way to describe them. And that is not my preferred sound in an IEM. When I got the GR07 - chose the classic over the BE and never regretted it, _so take my assessment overall with a grain of sand_.
> 
> I won't get into the aesthetics - look, design, color. You don't need my opinion on that.
> 
> ...



Bassheads don't like muddy bass lol... They prefer quality bass, with more quantity. ED8 bass is not crisp like you mentioned. I tried every wide bore tip I had on it, did some mods like taping the vents, pricking with needle and some more. Sound is definitely better than before but still they won't beat EDSE. 

Size and weight is issue and these can be used for self defense. No, I'm serious!


----------



## asri696

I've had EDSE (which is now gone), GR and DT3 which I absolutely price as backup iems, I have a wonder though, is there any other brand in the market producing something similar? As in balanced iem at cheap price? Most I see 'affordable' ones are priced at least $30 give or take.


----------



## Wokei

asri696 said:


> I've had EDSE (which is now gone), GR and DT3 which I absolutely price as backup iems, I have a wonder though, is there any other brand in the market producing something similar? As in balanced iem at cheap price? Most I see 'affordable' ones are priced at least $30 give or take.




KZ R1 and Micro Ring or Soundmagic E10 or E30 ( 30$ above)


----------



## EISENbricher

asri696 said:


> I've had EDSE (which is now gone), GR and DT3 which I absolutely price as backup iems, I have a wonder though, is there any other brand in the market producing something similar? As in balanced iem at cheap price? Most I see 'affordable' ones are priced at least $30 give or take.


 
 I had tried the same search but found nothing except SoundSoul S-018. I'll receive it pretty soon but it's been lauded by many on head-fi.
 Try it for sure if you're in UK or US.


----------



## ndburley

asri696 said:


> I've had EDSE (which is now gone), GR and DT3 which I absolutely price as backup iems, I have a wonder though, is there any other brand in the market producing something similar? As in balanced iem at cheap price? Most I see 'affordable' ones are priced at least $30 give or take.


 
 I have the soundmagic E10 and they have won What hifi awards for 2 or 3 years running. They are a great little IEM.


----------



## slowpickr

eisenbricher said:


> Cool! Post your impressions. As per my impressions they are bassy. But using eq adjust it works good.
> Also they sounded fantastic on a colder source (My secondary phone's output is kinda cold. I primarily use my main phone's output, which is warmish)


 

  
 Per your request, here's a photo:
  
*Positives*
 1. Cable like the EDSE
 2. Angle jack.
 3. Seem to be built well with decent strain relief.
  
*Negatives*
 HEAVY.  A slingshot with these ear pieces could do some damage!  They are quite long and stick out of the ears.  My ears are large so it really isn't an issue.  Could be for some.
  
 I'm not going to go into too many details on the sound.  Suffice to say, I'm not a fan of the sound signature.  The bass is muddy and loose as previously stated (EQ does help somewhat).  Both the mids and treble are lacking in detail and energy.  Mids are also recessed.  I tried different tips (including JVC spiral dots) and sources with the same results.  For my personal tastes, the EDSE remains at the top of the KZ line for me.  They all pale in comparison though to my KC06As and Kef M200s (which is no surprise considering the price differences).
  
 I'll be donating these one of my kids (who don't own slingshots).  Glad they only cost $7. 
  
 This is all my humble opinion.  Others may feel differently.


----------



## anduril

asri696 said:


> I've had EDSE (which is now gone), GR and DT3 which I absolutely price as backup iems, I have a wonder though, is there any other brand in the market producing something similar? As in balanced iem at cheap price? Most I see 'affordable' ones are priced at least $30 give or take.


 

 Definitely MEP-933! I love mine.
 Review: http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/monoprice-8320-mep-933/
 Thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/580769/the-monoprice-mp9927-pg-208-mp8320-mep-933-the-7-11-club
 Shop: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=9927
  
 Unfortunately price of shipping overseas is unacceptable.
 Still somehow got mine in PL for ~$9, but I still see it as a miracle.
  
 Difficult to get used to the size, cable is really easy to break, but the sound is great.


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> Per your request, here's a photo:
> 
> *Positives*
> 1. Cable like the EDSE
> ...



Your impressions are in line with the general opinion, so don't worry about the impressions being personal. Of course, EDSE still beat these any day. I'll also be gifting mine to friend, at least these look unique and costly, because of metal build.


----------



## slowpickr

eisenbricher said:


> Your impressions are in line with the general opinion, so don't worry about the impressions being personal. Of course, EDSE still beat these any day. I'll also be gifting mine to friend, at least these look unique and costly, because of metal build.




No problem. I always like to state that. You know the old saying... "one man's junk is another man's treasure". Anyway, I'm still blown away on the $50 deal I got for the Kef M200s. I had to send them back for replacement due to a defect in one of the ear pieces. Anxiously awaiting a replacement now. They sound better than any IEM I have ever heard. Period.


----------



## Roderick

Has anyone compared lps2 to lps? Is it just the same headphone with folding headband?


----------



## Mcgeggy

I just received the EDSE and GR a few days ago. I have to say I'm disappointed.
  
 GR:
 Somehow I missed the whole hole thing with these. I ordered them last month so by then the pics and descriptions had been changed to match the new "holeless" filter design, but that just leaves me wondering why the change was made. Was the filter redesigned to no longer need the holes to work properly? (According to feedback here the new holeless filter sounds bad). Was it an error then? Maybe the company used a different manufacturer for a new batch and forgot to spec the hole with them, or something like that. So is KZ just selling basically a defective product then? Anyway, bottom line is that they sound not so good to me.
  
 EDSE:
 I know that they seemed to get a lot of positive feedback in this thread, but to my ears the bass is just too much. At moderate/high volumes, the bass is just too loud compared to the mids and highs. Tried many different tips from other iem's I own, including Comply 400 medium TS. Also, the cable is the most tangle prone I have experienced, despite it's seeming quality. It's the first cable I've had that would not stay put over ear, which is my preferred style of wear.
  
 I only paid about $20 for both so at least there is that! But I only paid $7.50 for the Philips SHE3590, and $14.50 for the Nuforce NE-600X, and they both seem superior to me. (Received those in a few days from Amazon as opposed to a few weeks for the KZ iems).


----------



## EISENbricher

mcgeggy said:


> I just received the EDSE and GR a few days ago. I have to say I'm disappointed.
> 
> GR:
> Somehow I missed the whole hole thing with these. I ordered them last month so by then the pics and descriptions had been changed to match the new "holeless" filter design, but that just leaves me wondering why the change was made. Was the filter redesigned to no longer need the holes to work properly? (According to feedback here the new holeless filter sounds bad). Was it an error then? Maybe the company used a different manufacturer for a new batch and forgot to spec the hole with them, or something like that. So is KZ just selling basically a defective product then? Anyway, bottom line is that they sound not so good to me.
> ...



Pretty sure that EDSE wasn't defective? Because bass quantity is more but not overwhelming and it's not muddy on edse. Or simply your sound signature is far from what EDSE has to offer. Also cable isn't bad, it doesn't tangle and doesn't have much memory either. I use ear guide to use my edse around the ear and it works perfect that way. 
Also I disagree that she3590 sounds better than edse. I have both and edse blows the Philips away.


----------



## Mcgeggy

eisenbricher said:


> Pretty sure that EDSE wasn't defective? Because bass quantity is more but not overwhelming and it's not muddy on edse. Or simply your sound signature is far from what EDSE has to offer. Also cable isn't bad, it doesn't tangle and doesn't have much memory either. I use ear guide to use my edse around the ear and it works perfect that way.
> Also I disagree that she3590 sounds better than edse. I have both and edse blows the Philips away.




Well, it may be the music I listen to - hard rock/metal. I may experiment with a few more tips. But I swear that cable tangles on me more than the others, although the Seinheiser CX280 tangles easily too...


----------



## EISENbricher

mcgeggy said:


> Well, it may be the music I listen to - hard rock/metal. I may experiment with a few more tips. But I swear that cable tangles on me more than the others, although the Seinheiser CX280 tangles easily too...



I agree, EDSE aren't the best for metal. It may sound harsh. My primary music is EDM and kpop for now and EDSE are perfect for that job. 
Yeah... I have CX300 and feel the same. Still it's much better, I guess you haven't seen absolutely horrible cables yet. Even senn cable feels much better when compared to klipsch and soundsoul cables.


----------



## anduril

I love EDSE's cable. Also wearing it over-the-ear is very comfy for me (except the microphone is behind your ear in that case).
 If you want tangle-prone, try nylon sheeted Monoprice from my sig. Just crazy.


----------



## Hisoundfi

anduril said:


> I love EDSE's cable. Also wearing it over-the-ear is very comfy for me (except the microphone is behind your ear in that case).
> If you want tangle-prone, try nylon sheeted Monoprice from my sig. Just crazy.


+1 

The EDSE cable is one of the best cables I've ever come across in any price range, let alone the fact that they are dirt cheap.


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> +1
> 
> The EDSE cable is one of the best cables I've ever come across in any price range, let alone the fact that they are dirt cheap.




*+++++++++++*


----------



## Charliemotta

+ another 1


----------



## The Dan of Steel

+ yet another 1. I was actually thinking of buying another one just to recable another IEM!


----------



## Mcgeggy

Lol, I agree it is a quality cable ( as I had mentioned earlier in my post), but I'm surprised no one else thinks it is tangle prone. I think it has to do with the weight of the housings. A lot of my iems will detangle with a light shake because the housings are not heavy. Anyway, I'm going to spend some more time with them to see if my initial impression improves.


----------



## Charliemotta

I have 3 SuperDan just because I always buy duplicates or 3 when I like something.
  Sorry I can't help it. This pic of you cracks me up every time!


----------



## Ira Delphic

wokei said:


> asri696 said:
> 
> 
> > I've had EDSE (which is now gone), GR and DT3 which I absolutely price as backup iems, I have a wonder though, is there any other brand in the market producing something similar? As in balanced iem at cheap price? Most I see 'affordable' ones are priced at least $30 give or take.
> ...


 
  
 The R1's continue to grow on me. The absolute BEST _value_ of any IEM I've owned (I've purchased R1  $4 - $6). If I didn't know any better they took the driver of the EDSE and put it into the plastic housing of the R1. But the SQ of the R1 isn't far behind that of the EDSE. And if someone thinks the EDSE is "bad" chances they got a defective one.
  
 The R1 looks similar to the Philips 3590 but imo better sound - treble, mids and bass. Both don't fit deeply into the ear canal, sit closer to the surface so sound isolation is just average. The R1 are also tiny. Smaller than the 3590. *I think the R1 is the most underappreciated IEM in the KZ lineup. *
  
 Build quality of the R1 is nothing extraordinary. Plastic housing, silicon tip, plastic thin cord. The blue and white an odd color combination.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> The R1's continue to grow on me. The absolute BEST _value_ of any IEM I've owned (I've purchased R1  $4 - $6). If I didn't know any better they took the driver of the EDSE and put it into the plastic housing of the R1. But the SQ of the R1 isn't far behind that of the EDSE. And if someone thinks the EDSE is "bad" chances they got a defective one.
> 
> The EDSE looks similar to the Philips 3590 but imo better sound - treble, mids and bass. Both don't fit deeply into the ear canal, sit closer to the surface so sound isolation is just average. The R1 are also tiny. Smaller than the 3590. *I think the R1 is the most underappreciated IEM in the KZ lineup. *
> 
> Build quality of the R1 is nothing extraordinary. Plastic housing, silicon tip, plastic thin cord. The blue and white an odd color combination.


+1 They are pretty decent. I don't think many people bite on them because of the jank design.


----------



## Wokei

What jank design ....me dont care ..as long as they sound good ....me put them on ....period


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> The EDSE looks similar to the Philips 3590 but imo better sound - treble, mids and bass. Both don't fit deeply into the ear canal, sit closer to the surface so sound isolation is just average. The R1 are also tiny. Smaller than the 3590. *I think the R1 is the most underappreciated IEM in the KZ lineup. *



Pretty sure that EDSE and SHE look worlds apart.... 

Thumbs up for more details on R1. Might buy it next.


----------



## EISENbricher

the dan of steel said:


> + yet another 1. I was actually thinking of buying another one just to recable another IEM!


Wow very cool idea.... 
Though I'd buy an ED8 (essentially the same cable) because I can't tolerate tearing apart an EDSE! 

BTW after taking out cables of ED8 those weighty metal blocks may be useful... And no regrets


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > The EDSE looks similar to the Philips 3590 but imo better sound - treble, mids and bass. Both don't fit deeply into the ear canal, sit closer to the surface so sound isolation is just average. The R1 are also tiny. Smaller than the 3590. *I think the R1 is the most underappreciated IEM in the KZ lineup. *
> ...


 
  
 I meant R1 looks similar to 3590- not EDSE...corrected.


----------



## Shadowsora

Hi, i am about to jump on KZ wagon and i would like a bit of help.
 By edse if i got it right you guys mean this _*iem*_
  
 Though i saw _*this*_ one too, and _*this*_.
  
 Are all these the same with the exception the last has microphone too?
 And one last question how could you compare them to eph100, sony mh1c and xiaomi pistons 2.0.
 Thanks in advance and sorry this probably has been answered a million times but i couldn't get an answer reading through a some pages(10-15).


----------



## 1clearhead

shadowsora said:


> Hi, i am about to jump on KZ wagon and i would like a bit of help.
> By edse if i got it right you guys mean this _*iem*_
> 
> Though i saw _*this*_ one too, and _*this*_.
> ...


 
  
 I don't carry the EPH100 or the MH1C, but I'll give some comparisons against the Pistons.
  
 The SE tends to have a better balance in the bass region emphasising more on mid-bass and less strength in the sub-bass for a more overall balance signature, while the Pistons has a stronger sub-bass and mid-bass that tends to creep-up once in a while towards the the lower mid-range. The SE has better controlled and livelier mids with a good sense of crispiness and air that makes it the hi-lite for these gems, while the Pistons mids though not too distant, tends to sound laid-back most of the time, but mostly noticeable with good texture and space. The highs on the SE are detailed and great, not the smoothest I've ever heard, but holds its' own by not sounding harsh, or sibilant. While, the Pistons has a good sense of space up-top and crisp, but not as detailed and slightly splashy at times when comparing both.
  
 Personally, I think they are both good in their own rights and are both keepers with two different, but exciting sound signatures and both are worth having for the price offered.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> I don't carry the EPH100 or the MH1C, but I'll give some comparisons against the Pistons.
> 
> 
> The SE tends to have a better balance in the bass region emphasising more on mid-bass and less strength in the sub-bass for a more overall balance signature, while the Pistons has a stronger sub-bass and mid-bass that tends to creep-up once in a while towards the the lower mid-range. The SE has better controlled and livelier mids with a good sense of crispiness and air that makes it the hi-lite for these gems, while the Pistons mids though not too distant, tends to sound laid-back most of the time, but mostly noticeable with good texture and space. The highs on the SE are detailed and great, not the smoothest I've ever heard, but holds its' own by not sounding harsh, or sibilant. While, the Pistons has a good sense of space up-top and crisp, but not as detailed and slightly splashy at times when comparing both.
> ...


 

 I agree with everything but the treble. The EDse, at least mine, are nowhere near as nice up top as the Pistons. They are splashtacular in comparison. I've tip rolled like nuts to see if that would fix it but have had no success. The best tips I've found for the EDse, so far, have been those that came with the Huawei Honor. Treble on the EDse, and every KZ iem I've owned in fact, has continually been their weakest aspect. The exception is the Micro Ring, which is good at everything but not outstanding in any aspect.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Hi, i am about to jump on KZ wagon and i would like a bit of help.
> By edse if i got it right you guys mean this _*iem*_
> 
> Though i saw _*this*_ one too, and _*this*_.
> ...




My impression of KZ EDSE is that they are fantastic. You can see that in my signature. My advice is that get the EDSE yourself and see how you like it.

To answer your other question, yes. They all are same and the last link offers EDSE with a mic. I've bought all of my KZ stuff from the same store. They are genuine sellers.


----------



## vovka

shadowsora said:


> Are all these the same with the exception the last has microphone too?


 
 the last one is ED2 not EDSE


----------



## Wokei

vovka said:


> the last one is ED2 not EDSE




http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Ear-Headphones-kz-ed-Special-Edition-low-microphone-volume-sales/1380688_2040486474.html

What is th difference between this KZ EDSE and the KZ ED2 ..both with mic and both look the same ...


----------



## anduril

wokei said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Ear-Headphones-kz-ed-Special-Edition-low-microphone-volume-sales/1380688_2040486474.html
> 
> What is th difference between this KZ EDSE and the KZ ED2 ..both with mic and both look the same ...


 
 Seller says there is a difference in how they sound, most people assume they're the same.
 Noone has made a direct comparison yet.
  
 I took EDSE with mic even though it was a dollar or so more than ED2 with mic. Just to be safe.
 (Yeah, there seems to be a mic and non-mic version of both EDSE and ED2).


----------



## EISENbricher

anduril said:


> Seller says there is a difference in how they sound, most people assume they're the same.
> Noone has made a direct comparison yet.
> 
> I took EDSE with mic even though it was a dollar or so more than ED2 with mic. Just to be safe.
> (Yeah, there seems to be a mic and non-mic version of both EDSE and ED2).


 
 Agreed... better stay on a safe side. It really doesn't make sense if ED2 and EDSE are same inside out, but priced at different levels.
  
 I had also asked the seller and he said the same, and recommended buying EDSE.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Not sure if this has been posted here or not, I have tried to read through most of the 177 pages...  but I just contacted the Official KZ Store and they say they stopped production on the R3.
  
 ..


----------



## Shadowsora

Thanks for your answers guys!
 Just ordered EDSE with no mic, as i plan to buy the plastic xiaomi pistons which have a microphone too.
 The cable of EDSE seems so good and didn't want anything on it lol.
 Also i plan to use them with the Sony hybrid eartips i have, if their signature suits me better than my mh1 which i currently use as main iem(the damn j-cable is **** though).


----------



## Ira Delphic

shadowsora said:


> Thanks for your answers guys!
> Just ordered EDSE with no mic, as i plan to buy the plastic xiaomi pistons which have a microphone too.
> The cable of EDSE seems so good and didn't want anything on it lol.


 
  
 Going without mic also reduces a point of failure - so the IEM on average will last longer. I don't get a mic/controls unless I really need it or if there's a warranty. Chances are you're going to love the EDSE!  IMO the SQ - including treble is superior to the Xiaomi Piston.
  
 Since the Micro Ring is discontinued (perhaps the best offering from KZ - never tried it) - EDSE is the leading KZ IEM. DT3 and R1, both plastic casing, are also up there.
  
 Also, someone in the Piston thread claims the SQ of the plastic Piston is the same as the metal. The plastic Piston is also looking pretty good!


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Thanks for your answers guys!
> Just ordered EDSE with no mic, as i plan to buy the plastic xiaomi pistons which have a microphone too.
> The cable of EDSE seems so good and didn't want anything on it lol.
> Also i plan to use them with the Sony hybrid eartips i have, if their signature suits me better than my mh1 which i currently use as main iem(the damn j-cable is **** though).



Congrats on EDSE. Good choice. 
My EDSE with small Sony Hybrid fits very well and sounds amazing. A good match imo.


----------



## ilikeiem

I bought blue version of ED8 last year. This year I also bought red version. Unfortunately, they have different sound.  I don't know why. To be safe, just grab the most expensive EDSE.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I bought blue version of ED8 last year. This year I also bought red version. Unfortunately, they have different sound.  I don't know why. To be safe, just grab the most expensive EDSE.



Please tell the difference! 
I had ordered both red and blue. I've already received red, which didn't impress me much. Blue is still trapped on Beijing airport since some time.


----------



## dilidani

eisenbricher said:


> My EDSE with small Sony Hybrid fits very well and sounds amazing. A good match imo.


 
 I'm using my EDSE with T1E narrow bore tips. Sounds quite good with my sony mp3 player


----------



## ilikeiem

Red one has KZ Acoustic label. The blue one doesn’t have such label. Eartips are also different.
  

 My red one, there is a nasty static electricity shock on left ear. Treble also pierces my ears.  My blue one has better 3d soundstage with more depth. Bass is more controlled.


----------



## Dasaesthetics

Hi everyone

 Looking for an iem to partner up with my superlux evos. I love the neutral leaning warm sound signature they have and i was thinking if kz has anything like that to offer.


----------



## Dasbo

bloodypenguin said:


> Not sure if this has been posted here or not, I have tried to read through most of the 177 pages...  but I just contacted the Official KZ Store and they say they stopped production on the R3.
> 
> ..



What, really?..


----------



## 1clearhead

dasaesthetics said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Looking for an iem to partner up with my superlux evos. I love the neutral leaning warm sound signature they have and i was thinking if kz has anything like that to offer.


 
  
 Easy.....the KZ-EDSE. Quality is also genuinely good!


----------



## Dasaesthetics

1clearhead said:


> Easy.....the KZ-EDSE. Quality is also genuinely good!


 
 Sweet. Where can i purchase them?


----------



## EISENbricher

dasaesthetics said:


> Sweet. Where can i purchase them?


 let me help you here. 
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1987244299.html?tracelog=storedetail2mobilesitedetail


----------



## altrunox

Am I the first one to buy the LP3? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The only problem is that brazilian custom service is so slow that I would be one of the lasts to get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 BTW, really cheap, just US$19


----------



## BloodyPenguin

bloodypenguin said:


> Not sure if this has been posted here or not, I have tried to read through most of the 177 pages...  but I just contacted the Official KZ Store and they say they stopped production on the R3.
> 
> ..







dasbo said:


> What, really?..





Yes, I saw that the R3 is no longer available on their flagship page, so I emailed them.

This was their response:

"Thanks of support
Yes,r3 stop production.
others like gr ,ed special also very good."

..


----------



## anduril

ira delphic said:


> Also, someone in the Piston thread claims the SQ of the plastic Piston is the same as the metal. The plastic Piston is also looking pretty good!


 
 I'm not sure I'll be able to find it, but I saw a comment describing the build differences between 2.1 and Basic (plastic).


----------



## Ruben123

Anyone compared the KZs to the then famous ´Focalprice cheapies´ which are $4 now?
  
 XKDUN CK-700. I still have a pair, like them a lot. Now I have the MEP-933 for on the road I dont use them a lot anymore, they do isolate much more though so they still get few hours a week and yeah. Try them. Would like to know how they compare to EDSE, since I want to buy a spare CK-700 but if the EDSE is much better I might just spend a little more.
  
 http://www.eforchina.com/view/106174/High-Performance-Noise-Isolation-Stereo-Earphone-with-Bass-function-for-MP3---MP4---iPod--CK-700--White-.htm
  
 - I remember Wokei had those.....  -


----------



## Wokei

ruben123 said:


> Anyone compared the KZs to the then famous ´Focalprice cheapies´ which are $4 now?
> 
> XKDUN CK-700. I still have a pair, like them a lot. Now I have the MEP-933 for on the road I dont use them a lot anymore, they do isolate much more though so they still get few hours a week and yeah. Try them. Would like to know how they compare to EDSE, since I want to buy a spare CK-700 but if the EDSE is much better I might just spend a little more.
> 
> ...




Wokei reporting for duty....XKDUN CK700 are real good for less than 10$ ...Me paid 6$ for them...sound signature is different if compared with KZ EDSE...for those who want more bass..the sub bass is better than KZ while the high is more crisp and detailed...better scaling and controlled compared to EDSE...

But EDSE does better across the sound spectrum imo...more exciting sound sig...Me see no harm in getting both for that price...But built quality on KZ is way more better...this is from memory...Me do reserve the right to change my post..haha


----------



## Ruben123

Hi wokei! Which would you prefer for classical/country ? Treble is really painful on xkdun sometimes and needs to be eqed down!


----------



## Ira Delphic

anduril said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > Also, someone in the Piston thread claims the SQ of the plastic Piston is the same as the metal. The plastic Piston is also looking pretty good!
> ...


 
  
 @

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/4/4d/100x100px-LS-4d4b4734_my_golden_ears2.jpeg[/img]
 
julian67 made that claim - SQ in the plastic and metal Pistons identical. That was in the Pistons thread and I have no reason to doubt him. The plastic have copper drivers iirc and the metal beryllium alloy (they claim). Also, Xiamomi marketing says the SQ is identical - plastic and Pistons 2.0. But right now Ibuygou has the pistons for $15.99 shipped so I'd get the gold.


----------



## Wokei

ruben123 said:


> Hi wokei! Which would you prefer for classical/country ? Treble is really painful on xkdun sometimes and needs to be eqed down!




2 or 3 years back...it's all about the bass..the bass...but now..kinda like bright iem....for country...if you are on a budget...both will do fine...but not for classical music though....the range and spectrum for both of these is not equal to the task....imho...


----------



## CoiL

Ok, after "failing" with KZEDSE (didn`t get proper fit with any tips, cable sucked for me to wear over ear, they moved in ear due to small shape (diameter) and stuck too far out of the ear, littlebit heavy)... 
  
 I think I have now found my fav KZ IEM atm - *KZ-Tuner-r35* (black, without mic).
 Also I removed those tiny black g.k stickers (under them is small port hole) and used Piston v2.1 tips => result is *very very similar to Piston v2.1*.
 That makes r35 best bang-for-a-buck IEM for me so far (I bought them for 5.9€). Recommend to try it if You know and like how Piston v2.1 sounds.
 Just my 2 cents.
  
 About earlier discussion about Piston v2 - one guy at my local PC forum got gold and white ones and claims that white ones have littlebit more depth. 
  
 And more about KZEDSE - another guy from local PC forum claims that EDSE quality is inconsistent... one had more bass, other was more "flat".
 He bought these from aliexpress official kz flagship store with one order. So, ppl be warned - cheap price and bad quality control. Many of us in this thread
 might not have same quality products and thus different impressions. 
  
 From personal experience, I ordered 2x EDSE and they sounded same. So far I have had good experience with KZ, hope it stays so.


----------



## Mcgeggy

coil said:


> Ok, after "failing" with KZEDSE (didn`t get proper fit with any tips, *cable sucked for me to wear over ear*, they moved in ear due to small shape (diameter) and stuck too far out of the ear, littlebit heavy)...


 
 Yes, I agree about the cable.
  


coil said:


> And more about KZEDSE - another guy from local PC forum claims that EDSE quality is inconsistent... one had more bass, other was more "flat".
> He bought these from aliexpress official kz flagship store with one order. So, ppl be warned - cheap price and bad quality control. Many of us in this thread
> might not have same quality products and thus different impressions.
> 
> From personal experience, I ordered 2x EDSE and they sounded same. So far I have had good experience with KZ, hope it stays so.


 
 I guess I got one of the "more bass" ones. Too bad about the poor QC - I had really been anticipating the EDSE and GR during the month long ship time, oh well. I did manage to get the EDSE to sound a bit better with some EQ though.


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> Ok, after "failing" with KZEDSE (didn`t get proper fit with any tips, cable sucked for me to wear over ear, they moved in ear due to small shape (diameter) and stuck too far out of the ear, littlebit heavy)...


 
  
 Just like the cable on the Vsonic GR07, the edse cable_ gets softer over time in a good way_. With normal use in a few weeks it will go over ear just fine.
  
 About what people claim on a local forum, who knows. But for the Pistons i would put great confidence in the Piston thread/ @thatBeatsguy .


----------



## CoiL

ira delphic said:


> edse cable_ gets softer over time in a good way_. With normal use in a few weeks it will go over ear just fine.


 
 I did use it some time, didn`t get much better. For me - not fine.
  
 About my remove-sticker-modded KZ-R35, took a pic:


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > edse cable_ gets softer over time in a good way_. With normal use in a few weeks it will go over ear just fine.
> ...


 
  
 It's fine for me and others here. Maybe the two week number is more like months. It does loosen up. I now wear mine over ear no problem. It was not fine for some time that way.


----------



## CoiL

Still, there were other fit issues too. Sorry but EDSE didn`t work out for me. I agree about SQ though, it is very good but I like Piston v2.1 and now r35 more overall.


----------



## B9Scrambler

So, I was in Future Shop the other day and on my way out I found a random little bag with some unused eartips in them sitting in the snow....score! I know....I'm a scavenger....
  
 Anyways, fast forward a day or so and I'm trying to find a better pair of tips for my Micro Ring. "Oh snap!" I think, and pull out the 'lost and found' specials.
  
 What do you know? They are totally bad@$$! Even better soundstage (not by a wide margin, but noticeable), slightly less mid-bass (which I am not a fan of), and best of all....that slight veil I found the Micro Ring had has been lifted. They sound significantly more sharp, but not in a bad way. Comfort is boosted as well as the silicone used is thinner and softer. Bonus!
  
 Sorry for the picture quality. The top tip (black) is the one I was using previously, and the bottom tip (white) is the new one. That slight bore increase works wonders for the Micro Ring.
  


 Based on the packaging I think these tips were from a Samsung iem, but can't say for sure. Either way, they work very, very well with the Micro Ring.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mmmmmm....I want that fishy goodness right here. Too bad the price is all wrong.....booked marked for discount time :3
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-DEL-mobile-phone-earphones-heavy-bass-sport-HIFI-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets-music/1478574098.html


----------



## Hisoundfi

dasaesthetics said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> 
> Looking for an iem to partner up with my superlux evos. I love the neutral leaning warm sound signature they have and i was thinking if kz has anything like that to offer.


KZ EDSE and mod your evos


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Mmmmmm....I want that fishy goodness right here. Too bad the price is all wrong.....booked marked for discount time :3
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-DEL-mobile-phone-earphones-heavy-bass-sport-HIFI-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets-music/1478574098.html




You are talking about this...they do look like Sidy earphone...forgot which model


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> You are talking about this...they do look like Sidy earphone...forgot which model


 
  
 You are correct Master Wokei...do you own those? If so, how do they stack up vs. the Micro Ring?


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> You are talking about this...they do look like Sidy earphone...forgot which model


It's the Sidy hk1 that you are thinking of. 

It's one of my all time favorites


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> dasaesthetics said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone
> ...


 
 If You are thinking of unmodded superlux HD-681 EVOs, then better go for KZ-R35 - more similar sound to evos than EDSE.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> You are correct Master Wokei...do you own those? If so, how do they stack up vs. the Micro Ring




Imho ...me believe they are wee slightly better than Micro Ring ...fit is better ...cuz the size of the iem is bigger and it look more premium with the carbon fibre ( me luv carbon ..they kick ass) also the sound is much more beefier and more forward ....yet they still sound balanced to me .....compared to Micro .....my only complaint for Micro is fitting pita...haha 



hisoundfi said:


> It's the Sidy hk1 that you are thinking of.
> 
> It's one of my all time favorites




Not heard of Sidy HK1 but me hope it sound similar ..cuz remember when buying ..did compared the pic of HK1 to mine .,they look exactly the same ..cheapo that I am

Sad ...with too many iem ..they dont get much air play ...hahahaaa ..life of a hoarder :rolleyes:

Edited ..took them for a spin ...INDEED they sound very good for the price ...me think me got them for 15$ ......oooh much netter than Micro Ring ....much better details and clarity ....bass is good .....pretty tight taut and not overdone ....woo hooo..its good to see gears that me have being mentioned and then take them out for a spin ...to revisit them ..cheers


----------



## an-i-no

I just would like to thank all of you here for sharing your experiences! I'm enjoying the heck out of these EDSE's. They're incredible for the price!


----------



## vovka

as for the cables
 i own ES which has the same cable as EDSE and must say that it hardens with time in places where it contacts the skin
 as i wear them over-the-ear the cables took the form of my ears and turned into "hooks" so i don't need any guides


----------



## Wokei

vovka said:


> as for the cables
> i own ES which has the same cable as EDSE and must say that it hardens with time in places where it contacts the skin
> as i wear them over-the-ear the cables took the form of my ears and turned into "hooks" so i don't need any guides




Let nature take its course...cheers


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Imho ...me believe they are wee slightly better than Micro Ring ...fit is better ...cuz the size of the iem is bigger and it look more premium with the carbon fibre ( me luv carbon ..they kick ass) also the sound is much more beefier and more forward ....yet they still sound balanced to me .....compared to Micro .....my only complaint for Micro is fitting pita...haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome, thanks for the comments. I'm looking for a good price online. Best I can find is 20 CAD, which I might go for considering the terrible USD to CAD conversion at the moment, lol.
  
 With the new tips I added to the Micro Ring none of my other iems are getting any play time. I'm enjoying them even more than the VSD3....not saying they're better, just that the Micro Ring suit my preferred signature more.
  
 If the HK1 are even nicer than the Micro Ring, I'll be one happy camper.


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler...glad to help...but of cuz ymmv...but we do have good track record on some stuff we like...so going on that ...when you get them...hope they are to your liking..cheers


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> B9Scrambler...glad to help...but of cuz ymmv...but we do have good track record on some stuff we like...so going on that ...when you get them...hope they are to your liking..cheers




I trust your ears....you haven't led me astray yet! Still waiting on my CM9 and new ANV. Even though I ordered before the holidays, I'm thinking that's the cause of the delay. Must continue to display unbridled patience....


----------



## xrM

I wish they would make the KZs smaller, they stick out of the ear too much!


----------



## CoiL

Talking about size... I grinded down back end of my r35 today

 VS.

  
 Now they are almost same size as Piston v2.1 and look cooler than stock also imo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I call it "SG-mod" ...Sticker removal + Grinding.


----------



## Ira Delphic

xrm said:


> I wish they would make the KZs smaller, they stick out of the ear too much!


 
  
 Not all are big. The Micro Ring and R1 are small. On the other hand the newest - ED8 is huge. And the R3 (bigger than the Piston) mentioned a few posts back is one of the older KZ's - maybe from late 2013?


----------



## CoiL

Ok, after some ~24h playtime I`ve managed to get out differences between Piston v2.1 and KZ-R35
  
 Piston v2.1 has:

Slightly more depth/further/airier soundstage
 Male vocals have slightly more body and mids
Slightly more bass quantity and tightness/accuracy 
Slightly smoother highs
  
 ...but differences are pretty small and with typical smartphone as source probably unnoticeable.
  
 By price/SQ ratio (R35 is about 1/3 price of Pistons) - KZ-R35 better.
 By SQ - Piston v2.1 better.
 By price/SQ/accessories/quality - Piston v2.1 wins.
  
 Gear used to compare: iBasso DX50 @ mid gain, SU 1.3.3 @ Flac/iir off/cpu default + upgraded HO/LO capacitors. 16/44 Flac files.
  
 Hope it helps someone


----------



## Dasaesthetics

coil said:


> If You are thinking of unmodded superlux HD-681 EVOs, then better go for KZ-R35 - more similar sound to evos than EDSE.


 
 where can i purchase those? when it comes to aliexpress and sites like that idk if what im buying is legit or not...idk


----------



## CoiL

I think in case of KZ/GK products, problem isn`t in fake products (C´mon, who bothers to do fake IEM from ~5$ IEM? It would be pointless). Problem is rather QC and product inconsistency.
  
 You can buy from here and pretty certain it is legit:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-tuner-black-mental-Acoustical-headphones-headset-HiFi-Headphones-3-5mm-standard-interface-music-earphone/1380688_32273100028.html


----------



## Ruben123

How do R35 compare to EDSE?


----------



## CoiL

EDSE has more neutral sound, ittlebit more air/openness and detail ...that`s from the memory, don`t have EDSE anymore to do direct comparing.
 Like the Pistons, R35 has littlebit warmer sound signature and more bass quantity than EDSE. I personally consider R35 more musical and enjoyable to listen for longer sessions.
 EDSE can be somewhat "boring" and littlebit too neutral. But this is only my subjective opinion.


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> EDSE has more neutral sound, ittlebit more air/openness and detail ...that`s from the memory, don`t have EDSE anymore to do direct comparing.
> Like the Pistons, R35 has littlebit warmer sound signature and more bass quantity than EDSE. I personally consider R35 more musical and enjoyable to listen for longer sessions.
> EDSE can be somewhat "boring" and littlebit too neutral. But this is only my subjective opinion.


 
  
 Some of the best IEM's are boring, since they reproduce the sound faithfully. I'll take "boring" over "fun" most of the time.


----------



## EISENbricher

Also one point should be noted, which I found was is... that EDSE needs Amping. Not in case of some DAPs which have strong output though.
 I had gifted an EDSE to my friend and he liked the sound but didn't find it special. Yesterday I let him use my amp and he was blown away! There was a lot of difference between AMPed and unamped sound of EDSE.


----------



## CoiL

ira delphic said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > EDSE has more neutral sound, ittlebit more air/openness and detail ...that`s from the memory, don`t have EDSE anymore to do direct comparing.
> ...


 

 Hmmm... well, I didn`t mean that R35 are so to say "fun" sounding. They just give more natural presentation and overall more musical enjoyable sound.
 There are different sound signatures for different tastes, that doesn`t mean that best IEMs are certainly "boring" sounding and they still reproduce sound faithfully (whatever You meant by it). For example I had HAVI B3 Pro1 and I liked it a lot (especially soundstage and details)... but... it felt like someone had cut bass player instrument cable, bass just wasn`t enough in quantity. EDSE is in grey area for me regarding bass, not too much, not too less but I still feel it could have fraction more bass section. But this is just my taste. Btw, I`m by no means basshead, I hate bassy cans. My sound signature preference is neutral but slightly warm tilted, littlebit added bass and smoothed highs (my ears are very sensitive to highs).
 For me R35 produces sound same "faithfully" as EDSE, just littlebit different and more suitable for my taste/hearing.
 And sorry if it hurts somebody but KZ IEM`s are not among "some of the best" imo, at least those I have heard, EDSE among them. Yes they are awesome bang-for-a-buck but that`s all.


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > coil said:
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you on that! My T1-E with proper tip, for example, are better than any KZ I've heard.


----------



## ndburley

Hard to put a single opinion on each IEM, what are you listening to? 320?...256mp3, Flac and also what is powering it? Phones tend to fall a little short I feel if you are using IEMs...treble on an MP3 can be felt more while a Flac seems warmer. its all a mix and match as some will sound the best for you with your set up but rubbish for another. If you listen to mp3 with your KZ maybe dig out your old CD player and try with that or play a flac or mp3 through the pc it is good to get an all round opinion for yourself


----------



## EISENbricher

Someone was wondering where to buy the ear guides from. I just came across some neat looking ear guides/hooks for cheap here ($5 for 2 pairs, free shipping): 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Diy-tools-welding-jig-speaker-headphone-plug-unit-retaining-clip-can-clip-8MM-9MM-10MM15MM/323026_2035855748.html
  
  

  
 Pretty useful if your cable carries noise, or if you just need to wear any earphone over the ear.


----------



## Lawstorant

What about the size of the ED8 vs EDSE nozzles? Are these the same? I just don't want to buy tips that won't fit my EDSE.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ndburley said:


> Hard to put a single opinion on each IEM, what are you listening to? 320?...256mp3, Flac and also what is powering it? Phones tend to fall a little short I feel if you are using IEMs...*treble on an MP3 can be felt more while a Flac seems warmer. *its all a mix and match as some will sound the best for you with your set up but rubbish for another. If you listen to mp3 with your KZ maybe dig out your old CD player and try with that or play a flac or mp3 through the pc it is good to get an all round opinion for yourself


 
  
 Fidelity appreciation here on Head-Fi is at times like religion. Count me as a skeptic. Dozens of blind listening tests point to the conclusion that _most people can't tell the difference between a properly encoded v0/320k mp3 vs. FLAC_. And for those that can tell the difference _it's close enough that it doesn't matter_. The main benefit of FLAC is the option to transcode to new audio encoding formats as they become available in the future. Or to convert to other lossless or lossy formats.


----------



## CoiL

Speak for yourself and this is not the thread to start discussing about FLAC vs. MP3.


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> Speak for yourself and this is not the thread to start discussing about FLAC vs. MP3.


 
  
 I was responding to a post in this thread and please don't be rude.


----------



## CoiL

I`m not being rude. Just a reminder that this is KZ IEM thread and this subject is offtopic (topic that raises flame quite often, so better not to start with it).


----------



## ndburley

ira delphic said:


> Fidelity appreciation here on Head-Fi is at times like religion. Count me as a skeptic. Dozens of blind listening tests point to the conclusion that _most people can't tell the difference between a properly encoded v0/320k mp3 vs. FLAC_. And for those that can tell the difference _it's close enough that it doesn't matter_. The main benefit of FLAC is the option to transcode to new audio encoding formats as they become available in the future. Or to convert to other lossless or lossy formats.


 
 It was not an attempt to do a Flac vs MP3 just a view on how different devices will change a persons perception on KZ headphones being it MP3, WMA, FLAC etc and how the device pairs up with the EDSE for example. Some say its muddy sounding IEM but througha portable CD player it may sound different. Not in anyway a format vs format kick off.


----------



## CoiL

True. I agree. One should be trying something better than smartphone to get the true nature of certain IEM.


----------



## EISENbricher

lawstorant said:


> What about the size of the ED8 vs EDSE nozzles? Are these the same? I just don't want to buy tips that won't fit my EDSE.



ED8 nozzle has larger diameter than EDSE nozzle. Comply s400 fit on EDSE, while ED8 needs s500.


----------



## Jon Sonne

I just found this thread.... Very interesting! However, I think it is quite difficult to get an overview. Could any of you please tell me what are the most popular models, and what are their sound characteristics, or how do they compare?
 And how is build quality for the most popular models? Have you experienced that anything broke?
  
 Thanks


----------



## EISENbricher

jon sonne said:


> I just found this thread.... Very interesting! However, I think it is quite difficult to get an overview. Could any of you please tell me what are the most popular models, and what are their sound characteristics, or how do they compare?
> And how is build quality for the most popular models? Have you experienced that anything broke?
> 
> Thanks


 
Hi and welcome to KZ thread. IMO KZ has best vfm among all eatphome brands. 

So, the popular and easily available ones include 

KZ EDSE : Thread darling, most satisfaction rate among KZ models. Balanced sound with enough bass (subjective to opinion), good fit, decent cable and build quality, metal construction. Sturdy L jack. 

KZ DT3 : Another nice sounding KZ. Warmer than EDSE. Lightweight because of plastic build. Known for warm sig and good details. 

KZ ED3 : More emphasis on treble. Look fantastic and built well.

KZ ED8 : Latest model by KZ. Great build quality and good sound for money. Bass can be overwhelming. Too heavy and can be used for self defence. 

KZ R1: Cheapest KZ model, still recently being praised by KZ veterans. Looks like Senn CX300. Very good fit and nice cable. 


Also please buy KZ stuff from KZ official flagship store, they sell these for the cheapest price. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> jon sonne said:
> 
> 
> > I just found this thread.... Very interesting! However, I think it is quite difficult to get an overview. Could any of you please tell me what are the most popular models, and what are their sound characteristics, or how do they compare?
> ...


 
  
 I'll only add the aliexpress.com KZ flagship store...


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Balanced sound with enough bass (subjective to opinion), good fit, decent cable and build quality, metal construction. Sturdy L jack.


 
 Good fit, decent cable and metal construction are also subjective to opinion. Personally, I wished tinybit more bass. Though build quality was ok, fit sucked because of heavy and too long/thin metal construction and cable caused also problems.
 Though EDSE sounded very good, I find R35 to be better IEM all things considered. Very similar sound to Xiaomi Piston v2 (if same tips used and back sticker removed).


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Good fit, decent cable and metal construction are also subjective to opinion. Personally, I wished tinybit more bass. Though build quality was ok, fit sucked because of heavy and too long/thin metal construction and cable caused also problems.
> Though EDSE sounded very good, I find R35 to be better IEM all things considered. Very similar sound to Xiaomi Piston v2 (if same tips used and back sticker removed).



How can metal construction be subjective to opinion? And btw when I see overwhelming majority of opinion about some fact, added into that my personal experience, I'd not call it subjective. Honestly, I don't remember if it was you, but last time when someone griped about edse cable, everyone objected. Of course man, it's a nice cable! Gotta acknowledge the facts. I'm sure you're not comparing it to Dita Truth xD

Now you always promote R35 so much, I respect your opinion but I've never seen much air here regarding those. I've seen seniors loveing micro ring but R35? Never.


----------



## ayao

jon sonne said:


> And how is build quality for the most popular models? Have you experienced that anything broke?


 
  
 I have a DT3 where the front (chrome looking) part of the left housing separated from the back (grey) part of the housing, but it didn't affect the sound. It's my favourite sounding KZ earphone, with a huge bump in the low end (sub and mid-bass).
 Not sure if it's related to build quality, but my DT3 has crazy amounts of driver flex so I use them with a shallow fit.


----------



## anduril

I just noticed by accident that I've been using my EDSE in reverse, as I went intuitively for red - right...


----------



## EISENbricher

anduril said:


> I just noticed by accident that I've been using my EDSE in reverse, as I went intuitively for red - right...


 
 Red = Right
 Blue = Left 
  
 on my EDSE


----------



## Shadowsora

Awaiting EDSE to arrive, but with those prices i want to order one more kz iem, any vocal/mid oriented iem from KZ?
 Those KZ-ANVS seem rather interesting with their 14mm drivers, and give me a MP 8320 feeling just by the looks of it(lol).
 R35 seem to be more v shaped and could potentially be great for edm but my current priority is a mid oriented iem.


----------



## anduril

eisenbricher said:


> Red = Right
> Blue = Left
> 
> on my EDSE


 
 Wow. Other way round for me


----------



## EISENbricher

anduril said:


> Wow. Other way round for me


 
 Haha... your seems to be 'special'


----------



## EISENbricher

It's alive! Good thing  

Oh btw I rediscovered love for KZ ED8, by modding it a little. It's a mod that someone (probably james) had posted for fx850.


----------



## dilidani

Finally received my KZ R1, best 4$s ever spent! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cable is VERY thin above the Y-splitter, otherwise build quality is good. Earpieces are very tiny, deep instertion is absolutely supported, which is good. Best disposable laying-around-lazyboy IEM in terms of price and value. Now burning in on my old Sony walkman..


----------



## EISENbricher

dilidani said:


> Finally received my KZ R1, best 4$s ever spent!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So the SQ is very good for price? Heck the price is so low I wouldn't even mind ordering just now. Though I'll hold a little till Chinese Holidays finish.


----------



## dilidani

They are bassy, bit on the sub-bass side emphasis. Signature is dark, separation could be better, vocals-mids are OK, treble is a bit better maybe. For the 4 dollars, it delivers a seriously good value, but don't expect anything, that kills your Tenore or T1E. Tho, I have VJJB K1 as well, like you, that's an ocean of mud compared to these. Decent little phone! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (But lack of strain relieves above the Y splitter makes them good only for usage at home, fragile)

 Edit: These are with stock tips. Sexy blue tips tho lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Reacts quite good to EQ and easy to drive. Grab it bro!


----------



## EISENbricher

dilidani said:


> They are bassy, bit on the sub-bass side emphasis. Signature is dark, separation could be better, vocals-mids are OK, treble is a bit better maybe. For the 4 dollars, it delivers a seriously good value, but don't expect anything, that kills your Tenore or T1E. Tho, I have VJJB K1 as well, like you, that's an ocean of mud compared to these. Decent little phone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds good to me, especially considering the price. I have VJJB K1 and lol that thing is muddy.
 Thanks for the recommendation, I'll buy it (R1) soon.


----------



## FreeShah

For the price KZ is the best for me. I got TTPOD T1E, Soundsoul S-018 they are also good but KZ is the best just for 7 USD. Also for the shipping and communication KZ flagshipstore is the worst seller I have ever seen.


----------



## Ira Delphic

dilidani said:


> They are bassy, bit on the sub-bass side emphasis. Signature is dark, separation could be better, vocals-mids are OK, treble is a bit better maybe. For the 4 dollars, it delivers a seriously good value, but don't expect anything, that kills your Tenore or T1E. Tho, I have VJJB K1 as well, like you, that's an ocean of mud compared to these. Decent little phone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would rate the SQ a bit higher. The treble isn't so bad and they do a decent job with resolution. Compared to Philips SHE3590, I prefer the R1 SQ overall. The R1 are so tiny it's the closest thing to not wearing IEM's. Waiting for 3 more pairs to arrive. I had to spend a total of $12!


----------



## Ira Delphic

freeshah said:


> For the price KZ is the best for me. I got TTPOD T1E, Soundsoul S-018 they are also good but KZ is the best just for 7 USD. Also for the shipping and communication KZ flagshipstore is the worst seller I have ever seen.


 
  
 Agreed. The ED Special Edition (and DT3) are really good. Some people might prefer the SQ over the Pistons which are 3 times the price. I like to have an extra pair of IEM's in my backpack, jacket pockets, etc and KZ is perfect for that.


----------



## dilidani

Yea @Ira Delphic, actually it sounds better than DT3 for me, just compared them. DT3 is a bit muddier and harder to drive by a tad. Seriously underrated little gem haha. 
 I was considering to have an SHE3580/90/70/whatever, but maybe I'll order another R1 when I'll have spare 5 bucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Little Phillips is around 8-10 USD in my country)

 Edit: Test track, R1 performed really good on a quite complex tune imo. Great music mates!


----------



## EISENbricher

freeshah said:


> For the price KZ is the best for me. I got TTPOD T1E, Soundsoul S-018 they are also good but KZ is the best just for 7 USD. Also for the shipping and communication KZ flagshipstore is the worst seller I have ever seen.


 
 Wow man, I also have both T1E and S-018. And I find myself listening to KZ more nowdays. No doubt both are good but added benefit of EDSE's fit and not so behind SQ are great advantages.
  


ira delphic said:


> I would rate the SQ a bit higher. The treble isn't so bad and they do a decent job with resolution. Compared to Philips SHE3590, I prefer the R1 SQ overall. The R1 are so tiny it's the closest thing to not wearing IEM's. Waiting for 3 more pairs to arrive. I had to spend a total of $12!


 
 I have SHE as well. I'd compare once my R1 arrives. I'm very optimistic of this gem after listening to its praise : )
 Even if it's not at par with other I'm sure it's very good and I can wear it while sleeping! (My habit lol)
  


dilidani said:


> Yea @Ira Delphic, actually it sounds better than DT3 for me, just compared them. DT3 is a bit muddier and harder to drive by a tad. Seriously underrated little gem haha.
> I was considering to have an SHE3580/90/70/whatever, but maybe I'll order another R1 when I'll have spare 5 bucks.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 For me both EDSE and ED8 sound better to me than SHE3590. May be personal but added to that the BQ, KZ kills man!


----------



## Ira Delphic

I don't have the ED8 any more, but after giving it some time I came to the conclusion that it's not a bad IEM. I don't want to hype the R1 - but I will make the claim that it's the best value IEM to listen to when sleeping. I still reckon KZ put a decent dynamic driver in that plastic housing. I look forward to your  opinion @EISENbricher.


----------



## dilidani

Hype trains can easily lead to dissatisfaction but I can only agree. R1 is just fine, especially for 4 US dollars. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This kind of discovery makes me want to try another "underground" KZ models! These cheap IEMs.. like an addiction. I should save up for a DuoZA or IM70 or CKS77x or FXZ200 or.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 #welcometoheadfi #goodbyetoyourwallet


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Through some pricing errors and title errors, I was able to get the KZ R3 free from Amazon.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SSSMVYO/
  
 I ended up writing to them because this company is selling all these KZ earphones for way too much and they are not labeling them correctly.  Seems very shaddy.  They are selling the KZ EDSE for $30!  What a rip off!  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SSQI1QS/
  
 So to test if it is the real deal, Amazon shipped them to me for free with one day delivery.
  
  
 I actually think the KZ R3 sounds pretty decent.  The bass is fun, though a little more than I normally like.  I love the high quality build of the detachable cable.  
  
  
 I still prefer the SoundSOUL S-018 to the KZ R3, but it is still a fun earphone to use.
  
 ..


----------



## CoiL

@dilidani , I see You have both - R1 & Piston v2.1. How would You rate R1 against Pv2.1? If You like Piston v2.1 then I recommend You to try KZ-R35. If back stickers removed and same tips used, then very very similar sound to Pv2.1, for 1/3 price


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> @dilidani
> , I see You have both - R1 & Piston v2.1. How would You rate R1 against Pv2.1? If You like Piston v2.1 then I recommend You to try KZ-R35. If back stickers removed and same tips used, then very very similar sound to Pv2.1, for 1/3 price


Where do you find cheapest and legit r35?


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > @dilidani
> ...


 
  
 Also the Piston now sells for $20 or less. Here it the Piston for $16, shipped.


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> Where do you find cheapest and legit r35?


 Kz-tuner from kz official store on aliexpress = r35 I think... They go for 6$


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> I don't have the ED8 any more, but after giving it some time I came to the conclusion that it's not a bad IEM. I don't want to hype the R1 - but I will make the claim that it's the best value IEM to listen to when sleeping. I still reckon KZ put a decent dynamic driver in that plastic housing. I look forward to your  opinion @EISENbricher.


 
 I can guarantee that R1 is definitely a *BEST BUY* for $4 USD IEM.  I bought it for only $3.77 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  

  
  


dilidani said:


> Hype trains can easily lead to dissatisfaction but I can only agree. R1 is just fine, especially for 4 US dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you prefer better sound quality, save up for DuoZA, IM70, ... would be a good idea.


----------



## dilidani

Hey @CoiL ! Well I only used R1 with default tips, tip rolling could surely change my opinion, but I wouldn't say that it's behind Pistons by a large margin. If Piston is a 7, R1 is a 6 on a grade from 1 to 10.
 One big plus for R1: easier to drive. Piston has 16 ohms and lower sensitivity (only 93 dB). R1 sounds good even with my less amped walkman (nwz e584). R1 reacts very good to EQ and bass boost. Piston not so much.
 For Piston: They have better sub-bass. I'm not sure if using proper expressions, but maybe R1 is more on the "dark" side, while Piston is "warmer".


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Also the Piston now sells for $20 or less. Here it the Piston for $16, shipped.



Haha genuine pistons sell for around $12 here, shipping included 



shadowsora said:


> Kz-tuner from kz official store on aliexpress = r35 I think... They go for 6$



I see... So tuners are r35?
Need a second opinion though.


----------



## CoiL

I bought r35 from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-tuner-black-mental-Acoustical-headphones-headset-HiFi-Headphones-3-5mm-standard-interface-music-earphone/1380688_32273100028.html


----------



## boltasz

so I listen to basicaly rap and indie and I'll get a Xduoo X2.
 wich KZ iem should I get? the A1?
 thanks guys


----------



## Ira Delphic

boltasz said:


> so I listen to basicaly rap and indie and I'll get a Xduoo X2.
> wich KZ iem should I get? the A1?
> thanks guys


 
  
 I suggest the KZ ED Special Edition - referred to as the EDSE. The A1 is an older model.


----------



## boltasz

ira delphic said:


> I suggest the KZ ED Special Edition - referred to as the EDSE. The A1 is an older model.


 
 yeah, you still can get them on aliexpress on the kz store I think, gotta check to be sure.


----------



## slowpickr

ira delphic said:


> I suggest the KZ ED Special Edition - referred to as the EDSE. The A1 is an older model.




+1. I'm batting 1 out of 4 on KZ IEMs. The EDSE was the hit.


----------



## EISENbricher

boltasz said:


> yeah, you still can get them on aliexpress on the kz store I think, gotta check to be sure.



Other KZ iems are good too, but EDSE is a safer bet to start the KZ journey. Later on you may try other models, as they have different sound signatures.


----------



## CoiL

boltasz said:


> so I listen to basicaly rap and indie and I'll get a Xduoo X2.
> wich KZ iem should I get? the A1?
> thanks guys


 
 For those genres R35 is better choice than EDSE ...IMO


----------



## goa604

I have R3 and EDSE. For rap, trap and genres with simple but heavy bass i prefer R3. EDSE is too cold and analytical for those genres. But if there are any fast bass notes like in dark psy for example, with R3 all youre going to hear is mush.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm just taking a shot in the dark, but I'm going to guess that CoiL likes the r35.

Just a guess...


----------



## CoiL

Yea, I like them very much but still prefer pistons littlebit over these ...but the price/SQ of r35 is very good imo.


----------



## EISENbricher

So people, how your ED8 have been treating you? 

Mine has improved a lot after lot of burn in and use of proper tips (comply s-400). I am now quite enjoying these metal hunks. Bass is boomy as ever but now it's more precise and doesn't creep into mids.


----------



## slowpickr

eisenbricher said:


> So people, how your ED8 have been treating you?
> 
> Mine has improved a lot after lot of burn in and use of proper tips (comply s-400). I am now quite enjoying these metal hunks. Bass is boomy as ever but now it's more precise and doesn't creep into mids.


 
  
 Wasn't crazy about them (fit and sound), so I gave them to one of my kids.


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> Wasn't crazy about them (fit and sound), so I gave them to one of my kids.



Agreed... Fit was very, very hard to get properly. None of my silicone tips work on these, so finally complys saved the day...


----------



## bduncan5

I think the ED8 is very good. The sound stage is huge and the bass of course is prominent but with lots of sub bass. The mids and treble sound good to me. I found triple flanges my preferred tip as they seem to tip the frequency balance up a bit.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

I am loving my KZ R3.  It might not have the clear, in your face mids of the SoundSOUL S-018, but the R3 sure is fun with some dubstep and other bassy goodness.
  
 The R3 seems to never distort, no matter how low it goes.  It also keeps the bass where it needs to be, rarely creeping up into the mids.  And the mids are not bad, but just hard to compare them to the S-018.
  
 I am really enjoying using them.
  
  
 (Shown with Comply T-500 Tips).
  

  
 ..


----------



## B9Scrambler

Weew! Some more R3 love. Their bass is just obscene....so good.


----------



## EISENbricher

bduncan5 said:


> I think the ED8 is very good. The sound stage is huge and the bass of course is prominent but with lots of sub bass. The mids and treble sound good to me. I found triple flanges my preferred tip as they seem to tip the frequency balance up a bit.



Oh yes that deserves mention. They have huge soundstage.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Agreed... Fit was very, very hard to get properly. None of my silicone tips work on these, so finally complys saved the day...


 
  
 I've got both ED8m(the blue one) and ED8s(the red one).  I like ED8m very much. The sound signature is quite similar to FIDUE A71 but sound of ed8m is thinner.


----------



## slowpickr

ilikeiem said:


> I've got both ED8m(the blue one) and ED8s(the red one).  I like ED8m very much. The sound signature is quite similar to FIDUE A71 but sound of ed8m is thinner.


 
 Hmm.  I might have to take them away from my kid and try them again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## bduncan5

Yes I hear that thin sound quality too on the ed8 which is amazing considering the amount of bass they put out. The detail and soundstage is surprising. The overall sound is not heavy as one note bass headphones can be. Very nice bass resolution.


----------



## ilikeiem

bduncan5 said:


> Yes I hear that thin sound quality too on the ed8 which is amazing considering the amount of bass they put out. The detail and soundstage is surprising. The overall sound is not heavy as one note bass headphones can be. Very nice bass resolution.


 
 +1


----------



## EISENbricher

bduncan5 said:


> Yes I hear that thin sound quality too on the ed8 which is amazing considering the amount of bass they put out. The detail and soundstage is surprising. The overall sound is not heavy as one note bass headphones can be. Very nice bass resolution.


 


slowpickr said:


> Hmm.  I might have to take them away from my kid and try them again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


ilikeiem said:


> I've got both ED8m(the blue one) and ED8s(the red one).  I like ED8m very much. The sound signature is quite similar to FIDUE A71 but sound of ed8m is thinner.


 
 Now we got this thread running : ) 
  
 Good to know your opinions, thread went so silent lately. btw my blue ED8 is stuck due to CNY


----------



## Wokei

KZ need to up their game and come out with a killer tuning....they may have lots of model to choose from but to hang with Vsonic or Brainwavz ...they need to in order to compete with the likes of them...as far as build quality and cable(checked)....it's the sound tuning now...imho


----------



## ilikeiem

wokei said:


> KZ need to up their game and come out with a killer tuning....they may have lots of model to choose from but to hang with Vsonic or Brainwavz ...they need to in order to compete with the likes of them...as far as build quality and cable(checked)....it's the sound tuning now...imho


 
 I couldn't agree more.


----------



## chavez

Why do mine KZ EDSE have mic on them? Is that normal?


----------



## Netforce

Oh cool, kz sent me an email wanting some feedback. Hadn't ordered any new kz headphones in a while but basically replied saying I would dig another headband headphone as I quite like the lps myself though with some eq to turn down the bass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> Why do mine KZ EDSE have mic on them? Is that normal?




You good sir, have the ED2. Completely normal, and apparently sounds identical to the EDse, just with a little bonus.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> You good sir, have the ED2. Completely normal, and apparently sounds identical to the EDse, just with a little bonus.



Wouldn't agree totally, KZ person says both have different drivers inside. Maybe someone having both can confirm. 



netforce said:


> Oh cool, kz sent me an email wanting some feedback. Hadn't ordered any new kz headphones in a while but basically replied saying I would dig another headband headphone as I quite like the lps myself though with some eq to turn down the bass.



Cool, it's unusual for a brand like KZ to try maintain cust relations. 



chavez said:


> Why do mine KZ EDSE have mic on them? Is that normal?



You might have ordered mic version of EDSE or KZ sent it by mistake. It can also be ED2. No way to comfirm it. I'm not 100 percent sure that Ed2 and EDSE sound the same. I asked this to seller once and he said that they sound different.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Wouldn't agree totally, KZ person says both have different drivers inside. Maybe someone having both can confirm.
> Cool, it's unusual for a brand like KZ to try maintain cust relations.
> You might have ordered mic version of EDSE or KZ sent it by mistake. It can also be ED2. No way to comfirm it. I'm not 100 percent sure that Ed2 and EDSE sound the same. I asked this to seller once and he said that they sound different.




Only reason I mentioned that is that has been the general consensus between those two models pretty much all the way through this thread. I tossed in "apparently" to address that little uncertainty.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Only reason I mentioned that is that has been the general consensus between those two models pretty much all the way through this thread. I tossed in "apparently" to address that little uncertainty.




No no, even I'm also not sure about difference in SQ. I just want to say that it may also be an EDSE with a mic. KZ flagship sells it. You used words "You good sir, have the ED2". All I want to inform chavez that he may have EDSE as well.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> No no, even I'm also not sure about difference in SQ. I just want to say that it may also be an EDSE with a mic. KZ flagship sells it. You used words "You good sir, have the ED2". All I want to inform chavez that he may have EDSE as well.




Hold up a moment!!!! There is both an ED2....and an EDse with a mic? *peruses the web* Well, don't I feel like a total chump right now, lmao. Disregard this lowely slags comments. I'm going to go climb back under my rock.


----------



## Wokei

Imho...both the EDSE and ED2 are the same...heard both and can't hear any different....though initially when KZ were making their round early on...they also market their product under the brand GK brand...for example like my R3 when bought were listed under GK but the jack has the branding of KZ...same goes also to my Micro Ring...cuz they were bought almost 1.5 years ago...Cheers


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Imho...both the EDSE and ED2 are the same...heard both and can't hear any different....though initially when KZ were making their round early on...they also market their product under the brand GK brand...for example like my R3 when bought were listed under GK but the jack has the branding of KZ...same goes also to my Micro Ring...cuz they were bought almost 1.5 years ago...Cheers


 

 I read somewhere that g.k. and KZ were two different companies that merged, which is why you see g.k. on some (like the R3, ANV, Micro Ring, etc.) and KZ on others. Wish I could find that link.
  
 Also wish those CM9/ANV I ordered at the end of January would show up. They left China and I've seen nothing in the tracking since. Oh well! I have the Titan 1 and new NarMoos to keep me entertained in the meantime.


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler...bought some nice gears...congrats

Hope your KZ arrive soon...as you know total lockdown during Chinese New Year...still few more days technically until CNY ends..Haha


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> @B9Scrambler...bought some nice gears...congrats
> 
> Hope your KZ arrive soon...as you know total lockdown during Chinese New Year...still few more days technically until CNY ends..Haha


 

 Thank man! Yeah, that's why I'm not too worried. They'll get here when they get here  I also took a chance on something new, and ordered the YinShu YS-204 and YS-202. I couldn't find any coverage at all on them, but they are in-canal like the Micro Ring. Interest peaked.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Thank man! Yeah, that's why I'm not too worried. They'll get here when they get here  I also took a chance on something new, and ordered the YinShu YS-204 and YS-202. I couldn't find any coverage at all on them, but they are in-canal like the Micro Ring. Interest peaked.


 
 Wow these YinShus looks so nice!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Wow these YinShus looks so nice!!




For 12 bucks....I had to try them out. Ceramic housings and everything...fancy! Lol

* The 204 and 202 look nearly identical, with the 202 having a slightly sleeker design and strain reliefs on the housing. Not sure if they will sound any different, but that's why I bought both. I'm really keen on seeing how they compare to the Micro Ring. I still enjoy the Micro Ring even with the Titan 1 in my possession....which to me says a lot as to just how competent they are. I was expecting to find them disappointing after a/bing the two, but they're still a good listen.*


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> I read somewhere that g.k. and KZ were two different companies that merged, which is why you see g.k. on some (like the R3, ANV, Micro Ring, etc.) and KZ on others. Wish I could find that link.
> 
> Also wish those CM9/ANV I ordered at the end of January would show up. They left China and I've seen nothing in the tracking since. Oh well! I have the Titan 1 and new NarMoos to keep me entertained in the meantime.


 
  
 On mine,on the jack that goes into the phone,one side says g.k. on the other KZ  .


----------



## Wokei

chavez said:


> On mine,on the jack that goes into the phone,one side says g.k. on the other KZ  .



 


Best of both world ......KZ and GK ...that's a first .....hybrid version of EDSE or ED2


----------



## chavez

wokei said:


> chavez said:
> 
> 
> > On mine,on the jack that goes into the phone,one side says g.k. on the other KZ
> ...


 
  
 Wokei delete account please, I already bought Awei ES800M and now these because of you. Im gonna get poor very soon  .


----------



## Wokei

chavez said:


> Wokei delete account please, I already bought Awei ES800M and now these because of you. Im gonna get poor very soon  .



 


You give too much credit ...haha

Dont remember how me got you to get Awei ES800M or KZ EDSE "hybrid" ...haha

Welcome to Headfi and sorry about your wallet ...muahahahahahahahahahaa


----------



## chavez

wokei said:


> chavez said:
> 
> 
> > Wokei delete account please, I already bought Awei ES800M and now these because of you. Im gonna get poor very soon
> ...


 
  
 I read everything but  I post rarely. You are in charge of awei topic  . Also i think the branding on jack is standard for these,someone will agree i suppose.Only thing im confused is why is the mic on them  .


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> For 12 bucks....I had to try them out. Ceramic housings and everything...fancy! Lol
> 
> * The 204 and 202 look nearly identical, with the 202 having a slightly sleeker design and strain reliefs on the housing. Not sure if they will sound any different, but that's why I bought both. I'm really keen on seeing how they compare to the Micro Ring. I still enjoy the Micro Ring even with the Titan 1 in my possession....which to me says a lot as to just how competent they are. I was expecting to find them disappointing after a/bing the two, but they're still a good listen.*


 
 I know it's going to take long for you to get YinShus to get delivered but I'll wait and looking forward to these.


----------



## Wokei

chavez..the million dollar question is....do you like the sound  of KZ EDSE...


----------



## chavez

wokei said:


> @chavez..the million dollar question is....do you like the sound  of KZ EDSE...


 
 Yes,very much . But I can't remember the sound of my Superlux HD381 and cant compare,since left earphone on Superluxes died and I threw them away.I think cable killed them,my fault since I borrowed them to my sister  .


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> I know it's going to take long for you to get YinShus to get delivered but I'll wait and looking forward to these.


 

 I'll post about them without a doubt...not here of course. That'll go in the Chinese iem thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really hope they sound fantastic.
  
 I really do want KZ to make a successor to the Micro Ring though. Leave everything the same, except make it all better. Yeah....better. My comments are so helpful and informative :3


----------



## Ira Delphic

b9scrambler said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > I know it's going to take long for you to get YinShus to get delivered but I'll wait and looking forward to these.
> ...


 
  
 ...with EDSE cable  and a shirt clip.


----------



## CoiL

...no. EDSE cable is bad. R35 cable is better. IMO.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ira delphic said:


> ...with EDSE cable  and a shirt clip.




I'll second both of those things, but definitely make sure the shirt clip is removable. I like having them, but never really use them...or chin cinches for that matter. Cable behind the ear for me.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> ...no. EDSE cable is bad. R35 cable is better. IMO.




Ooooookay. Now I know you be trollin'. No one, and I mean no one, dislikes that JUICY @$$ cable. I kid, I kid!

I really like the ANV cable tbh.


----------



## EISENbricher

EDSE cable and bad are two words that shouldn't be put together lol

Whenever I show my EDSE/ED8 to people the first thing they comment about is the good quality and feel of the cable.


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> ...no. EDSE cable is bad. R35 cable is better. IMO.


 
  
 R35 cable is bad! (just kidding - I haven't tried any of the old KZ's)
  


eisenbricher said:


> EDSE cable and bad are two words that shouldn't be put together lol
> 
> Whenever I show my EDSE/ED8 to people the first thing they comment about is the good quality and feel of the cable.


 
  
 The cable alone  is worth the cost of the IEM. Pretty amazing and one reason why we love KZ.


----------



## EarTips

Hi guys, new to the KZ club,
  
 i'm using the xiaomi piston atm,
 any similar KZ models thats worth to get?
  
 or any better ones to recommend?
  
 and what's the difference btw the: ckw1000/ kz 2013/ kz 2014/ kz anv ?
  
 thanks


----------



## CoiL

KZ-Tuner-R35 is very similar to pistons when same tips used and back stickers removed.


----------



## EarTips

Coil, thanks
  
 i'm looking into the KZ R3 and maybe the ckw1000 as well,
 just wanna try something difference.


----------



## EISENbricher

eartips said:


> Hi guys, new to the KZ club,
> 
> i'm using the xiaomi piston atm,
> any similar KZ models thats worth to get?
> ...


 
 KZ EDSE and ED8, I'm having great time with both. KZ EDSE is instantly lovable, while ED8 needs a lot of burn in, right tips to shine, but has huge soundstage and very good warm sound. I'd say since you're joining the KZ club, order multiple and not one IEM. They have variety of decent IEMs with each one sounding different. From my knowledge I'll strongly recommend EDSE, ED8, DT3 and R1.


----------



## EarTips

ok
  
 thanks


----------



## CoiL

About EDSE... it is quite different from Pistons and r35. If You are more into littlebit V shaped sound with good mids, then Pistons and R35 are probably better choice. EDSE is neutral sounding with less bass.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> About EDSE... it is quite different from Pistons and r35. If You are more into littlebit V shaped sound with good mids, then Pistons and R35 are probably better choice. EDSE is neutral sounding with less bass.


 
 V shaped with good mids... statement of the day


----------



## LondonTone

eisenbricher said:


> V shaped with good mids... statement of the day


 

 Maybe it's an upside-down V...


----------



## Koolpep

londontone said:


> Maybe it's an upside-down V...


 

 I have this headphone too and I really like the mids, recessed but so forward.Slow bass but a lot of PRaT, rolled of in the highs but sparkly. 
  
 Totally B-shaped signature.
  
 PS: Adding the sarcasm smiley


----------



## Ruben123

So EDSE is still the best allround?


----------



## EISENbricher

londontone said:


> Maybe it's an upside-down V...


 


koolpep said:


> I have this headphone too and I really like the mids, recessed but so forward.Slow bass but a lot of PRaT, rolled of in the highs but sparkly.
> 
> Totally B-shaped signature.
> 
> PS: Adding the sarcasm smiley


 
 lol sarcasm too much xD
  


ruben123 said:


> So EDSE is still the best allround?


 
 Depends on preference, but it's a safest bet. I'd call it a 'reference' KZ because it does reasonably good justice with the frequency spectrum, has a good, durable cable and strain reliefs and size that is neither too bulky nor too skinny.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > About EDSE... it is quite different from Pistons and r35. If You are more into littlebit V shaped sound with good mids, then Pistons and R35 are probably better choice. EDSE is neutral sounding with less bass.
> ...


 
 I mean`t that mids aren`t recessed, they are just good(ok). Good doesn`t equal great. Learn the meaning of words. V-shaped sound can also have good mids. 
  
 PS, You are really starting to get on my nerves with Your picky comments and opinions like only Your words have meaning and I can`t share/have my opinion
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cool down and respect other ppl opinion.


----------



## EarTips

edited


----------



## EarTips

coil said:


> About EDSE... it is quite different from Pistons and r35. If You are more into littlebit V shaped sound with good mids, then Pistons and R35 are probably better choice. EDSE is neutral sounding with less bass.


 
 good, i would like to try it.
  
  
 updates: ordered the kz edse.


----------



## EarTips

guys, any reviews on this VJJB K1 model?


----------



## mebaali

Combining my KZ-ES with Topping NX1 on a 6 years old Nokia N97 is giving me some really amazing sound (Improved Vocals and Instrument separation are the highlights for me) that I have not heard off before from either of these phones (both the earphones as well as mobile phone) 
  
 (Mainly listened to Vertical Horizon, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and ColdPlay)


----------



## dilidani

Originally Posted by *EarTips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  
 guys, any reviews on this VJJB K1 model?
  
  
  
 Not really recommended, unless you are a huge basshead. Finding the proper sounding eartip is a bit hard, the whole IEM feels cheap and flimsy. Earpiece looks cool, but cable is strange for my taste and no strain relief at earpieces. With wide bore tips it sounds ok, but it has such a huge amount of bass that overmuffles the overall sound. Maybe more burn in, better tips and EQing could help but I don't care that much.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW i'm going to write tomorrow a little wrap-up about my budget IEMs. KZ DT3, R1, EDSE, VJJB K1, Piston2.1, T1E and awei q9. I'm not an expert, but hope it will help ppl looking for a good pair of cheapo earphones


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> PS, You are really starting to get on my nerves with Your picky comments and opinions like only Your words have meaning and I can`t share/have my opinion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm cool bro, it was just a little nudge, you got all serious haha. I can't resist when you compare EDSE when you never managed to get a good fit with it and don't have it currently!
  

  



eartips said:


> guys, any reviews on this VJJB K1 model?


 
 I have it and its sound is best described as muffled and somewhat muddy. Not really good for listening music but it's good for other tasks. Cable has some memory but durability wise it feels above average. It may also sound okay for those who absolutely hate highs and sparkly sound.
  
  


dilidani said:


> Originally Posted by *EarTips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> guys, any reviews on this VJJB K1 model?
> 
> ...


 
 Looking forward to DT3 vs EDSE (and R1), because DT3 on my KZ priority list and R1 already ordered. 
  
  


mebaali said:


> Combining my KZ-ES with Topping NX1 on a 6 years old Nokia N97 is giving me some really amazing sound (Improved Vocals and Instrument separation are the highlights for me) that I have not heard off before from either of these phones (both the earphones as well as mobile phone)
> 
> (Mainly listened to Vertical Horizon, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and ColdPlay)


 
 Nokia! Those N series days were awesome and they (along with SE walkman) were best sounding phones.


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Nokia! Those N series days were awesome and they (along with SE walkman) were best sounding phones.


 
 Couldn't agree better. For me, It is still going pretty strong after all these years (mainly using them for nighttime music listening)   (OPO is kinda taking over now, though )


----------



## EarTips

> Originally Posted by *dilidani*
> 
> Not really recommended, unless you are a huge basshead. Finding the proper sounding eartip is a bit hard, the whole IEM feels cheap and flimsy. Earpiece looks cool, but cable is strange for my taste and no strain relief at earpieces. With wide bore tips it sounds ok, but it has such a huge amount of bass that overmuffles the overall sound. Maybe more burn in, better tips and EQing could help but I don't care that much..
> 
> ...


 


eisenbricher said:


> I have it and its sound is best described as muffled and somewhat muddy. Not really good for listening music but it's good for other tasks. Cable has some memory but durability wise it feels above average. It may also sound okay for those who absolutely hate highs and sparkly sound.


 
  
 Thanks for the reviews guys


----------



## slowpickr

chavez said:


> Wokei delete account please, I already bought Awei ES800M and now these because of you. Im gonna get poor very soon  .




+1. Master Wokei has cost me money LOL!


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> +1. Master Wokei has cost me money LOL!


 
 Wokei senpai got me into KZ world haha


----------



## bduncan5

Is this right? The KZ-CM9 is based on the ath-ckm99 and the KZ-ANV is based on the ath-ckw1000anv. Any opinions on these two KZ models?


----------



## Wokei

slowpickr said:


> +1. Master Wokei has cost me money LOL!







eisenbricher said:


> Wokei senpai got me into KZ world haha






Haha....there are few gems in some model of KZ depend on your preferred sound sig...price wise they are a steal compared to entry level established brand like Sony Phillips JVC...imho they are damm  fit the price and built quality...Haha


----------



## B9Scrambler

bduncan5 said:


> Is this right? The KZ-CM9 is based on the ath-ckm99 and the KZ-ANV is based on the ath-ckw1000anv. Any opinions on these two KZ models?




I quite enjoy the ANV. Treble can be a bit wily but they are pretty solid otherwise.

Have the CM9 on the way so I can't comment on them yet.

Didn't realize they were both blatant AT copies, lol.


----------



## Wokei

mebaali said:


> Combining my KZ-ES with Topping NX1 on a 6 years old Nokia N97 is giving me some really amazing sound (Improved Vocals and Instrument separation are the highlights for me) that I have not heard off before from either of these phones (both the earphones as well as mobile phone)
> 
> (Mainly listened to Vertical Horizon, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and ColdPlay)





TOPPING NX1 rocks ....for the price ..its a deal ..its a steal




bduncan5 said:


> Is this right? The KZ-CM9 is based on the ath-ckm99 and the KZ-ANV is based on the ath-ckw1000anv. Any opinions on these two KZ models?




Yes ..they are based on those mentioned model .....as far sound is concerned .....me like them ...CM9 like them for the vocal and ANV like them for the full body sound ..pretty balanced imho...most of all ..they look really pretty ...haha

B9Scrambler....sorry mate ..did not see your reply to that post until me submit my post .....that is why ...we should always be aware of different take on sound .....by others ....I did find them wily at first but that was before I was a basshead but now ....dont really go for heavy bass sound sig ....so that is why i called them pretty balanced ....cheers bro.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> TOPPING NX1 rocks ....for the price ..its a deal ..its a steal
> Yes ..they are based on those mentioned model .....as far sound is concerned .....me like them ...CM9 like them for the vocal and ANV like them for the full body sound ..pretty balanced imho...most of all ..they look really pretty ...haha
> 
> B9Scrambler....sorry mate ..did not see your reply to that post until me submit my post .....that is why ...we should always be aware of different take on sound .....by others ....I did find them wily at first but that was before I was a basshead but now ....dont really go for heavy bass sound sig ....so that is why i called them pretty balanced ....cheers bro.




No worries man! I completely agree with your assessment of the ANV. They are quite balanced. By 'wily' I just mean the ANV's treble can be uncontrolled. Short of the Micro Ring, they are my favorite KZ iem (with the addrd filter mod+Sony Hybrid tips...fixes the wiliness). I love the ANV, which is why I bought another pair pretty much as soon as mine died.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> No worries man! I completely agree with your assessment of the ANV. They are quite balanced. By 'wily' I just mean the ANV's treble can be uncontrolled. Short of the Micro Ring, they are my favorite KZ iem (with the addrd filter mod+Sony Hybrid tips...fixes the wiliness). I love the ANV, which is why I bought another pair pretty much as soon as mine died.




.....and " World Peace" is restored .....haha


----------



## Charliemotta

Wokei, is that the one we scraped that film off the nozzle? Remember you could hardly see it...   ♫


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> .....and " World Peace" is restored .....haha




Lmao! *thumbs up*


----------



## Wokei

charliemotta said:


> Wokei, is that the one we scraped that film off the nozzle? Remember you could hardly see it...   ♫




Yes ....but the ANV ....no need to ....


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > PS, You are really starting to get on my nerves with Your picky comments and opinions like only Your words have meaning and I can`t share/have my opinion
> ...


 
 When I used Piston tips then I got it sounding ok but they didn`t stay in my ear that way (reasons why - I already explained: weight + size + cable + needed tips that I didn`t have and didn`t bother to search for). That doesn`t mean I didn`t get the right sound impression, I did (please don`t assume things, ask). Like I told they are very good neutral sounding IEMs but personally I would have liked fraction more bass. I compared them against Piston v2.1 and even Fidelio X1 shortly on my desktop rig. I gave them away as a present, both of them. I can ask them easily back to compare again but I just don`t bother, got enough time with them and they aren`t for me, all things considered. KZ-Tuner-R35 is way better (for me) and on par with Pistons, which I like soundwise and no fit/comfort issues. Forum member asked for recommendations about similar sounding IEMs as Pistons and I shared my impressions. End of story.


----------



## Charliemotta

Okay that's right....sorry for blowing up!


----------



## B9Scrambler

THE CHAOS!!! Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.

What do you all think the new KZ iem is going to be? I'm kinda hoping they take on a BA....


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> THE CHAOS!!! Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.
> 
> What do you all think the new KZ iem is going to be? I'm kinda hoping they take on a BA....



I think they are going to take a lot of time to release new things.


----------



## Dasbo

b9scrambler said:


> THE CHAOS!!! Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.
> 
> What do you all think the new KZ iem is going to be? I'm kinda hoping they take on a BA....



A KZ balanced armature? What have you been smoking? I want some too


----------



## Hisoundfi

KZ sent me an email asking my overall happiness with their products. 

I told them they are an incredible deal, but many of their latest models have WAY too much bass and bass bleed. 

I told them I was very happy with the edse, old version of the gr, and micro ring, as well as some others. 

I told them I would like to see their next models be more balanced and that something like the kz es with less hot and splashy treble would be awesome. 

I also said that a item with the tuning and sound quality of the micro ring in combination with updated build quality will also rock. 

I think it's time for kz to come out with a flagship IEM that focuses on balance and resolution, and comes in the new wooden cases and has a clamshell case and nice tip selection. I would rather she'll out 30 bucks or so to get something like that rather than get another 8 dollar model that blows my brains out with bass


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> KZ sent me an email asking my overall happiness with their products.
> 
> I told them they are an incredible deal, but many of their latest models have WAY too much bass and bass bleed.
> 
> ...



Great things said.... Too bad you sent those in English : ( but if something like this happens then it'll be fantastic. Need a breathe of fresh air, KZ!


----------



## B9Scrambler

dasbo said:


> A KZ balanced armature? What have you been smoking? I want some too




It was just a thought, lmao. They managed to nail budget dds....so why not a budget BA. That would really put their name out there. This doesn't mean I think it'll happen, just that's what I want to see happen.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> KZ sent me an email asking my overall happiness with their products.
> 
> I told them they are an incredible deal, but many of their latest models have WAY too much bass and bass bleed.
> 
> ...




Its cool that they would reach out for feedback! And good feedback was provided I say, I say good sir. Also, anytime there is Micro Ring love, I approve, haha.


----------



## chavez

hisoundfi said:


> KZ sent me an email asking my overall happiness with their products.
> 
> I told them they are an incredible deal, but many of their latest models have WAY too much bass and bass bleed.
> 
> ...






What is their email?


----------



## CoiL

Yes, would like to know also so I could tell them to put better cable for EDSE (softer and lighter) and use thicker but shorter build from aluminium for housings


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Yes, would like to know also so I could tell them to put better cable for EDSE (softer and lighter) and use thicker but shorter build from aluminium for housings



Lol that wouldn't be an EDSE then. EDSE's gonna stay right there as their most popular product


----------



## CoiL

Again, read between the lines - sound tuning should stay same. Of course I didn`t mean that they should just change enclosure and put new cable with original EDSE drivers and tuning, that wouldn`t sound like EDSE anymore.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Again, read between the lines - sound tuning should stay same. Of course I didn`t mean that they should just change enclosure and put new cable with original EDSE drivers and tuning, that wouldn`t sound like EDSE anymore.


 
 Let's continue these fireworks in PM, don't want this thread closed once more.


----------



## chavez




----------



## slowpickr

> Next comes block member button if You won`t stop.


 
  
 Ya know, I always forget about this feature on Head-Fi (making note to myself...).


----------



## Wokei

Seriously..guys...cool it...✋ stop ...let this not be personal...c'mon this hobby supposed to be fun...if not...walk away before this thread is locked permanently...have some respect for thread starter and other members who are here to gather information on what to buy...No one ☝ is wrong or right but learn to agree to disagree...


----------



## dilidani

KZ DS? Wow any new? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DS-balanced-dynamically-mega-bass-in-ear-DJ-dance-music-headphones-HIFI-tone-quality-free/32232732976.html


----------



## Ruben123

"Balanced" and "mega bass" in one sentence...lol.


----------



## EISENbricher

dilidani said:


> KZ DS? Wow any new?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow is this really a new model from KZ??
 Calling seniors for help...


----------



## Hisoundfi

I think that's an old model renamed


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Seriously..guys...cool it...✋ stop ...let this not be personal...c'mon this hobby supposed to be fun...if not...walk away before this thread is locked permanently...have some respect for thread starter and other members who are here to gather information on what to buy...No one ☝ is wrong or right but learn to agree to disagree...


+1

Let's not be stubborn in our opinions. Also, understand that we all have people on here that we don't agree with on a regular basis, and we have the right to ignore or dismiss what they say. We also can block a person as well. Honestly, after all the time I've spent on Head-Fi, I like to keep reading some people's posts just to see how ridiculous some people can be. 

Remember, this is a hobby. 

People will ruin their own credibility if you let them. Noone needs to get angry or instigate or retaliate. I think anyone who reads these threads long enough knows who's opinion to respect and who's to ignore. 

At the end of the day, we are hear to discuss audio gear and have fun. Don't forget that guys.


----------



## Charliemotta




----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> I think that's an old model renamed




I think so as well....asked about this model back in Nov or Dec last year....can't recall what was said about them though. I do like the look. Oversized drivers ftw!


----------



## bhazard

The DS is old and not worth it.

KZ sales rep contacted me. I requested KZ to focus on some models with a flat sound signature. A $20-40 analytical IEM would be a godsend. This is the new target to hit.


----------



## EISENbricher

bhazard said:


> The DS is old and not worth it.
> 
> KZ sales rep contacted me. I requested KZ to focus on some models with a flat sound signature. A $20-40 analytical IEM would be a godsend. This is the new target to hit.



Exactly... At their current VFM factor that would really be a monster of IEM.


----------



## Wanderluster

Received these yesterday and they sound very good out of the box. For 50 yuans the hype seems deserved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## slowpickr

wanderluster said:


> Received these yesterday and they sound very good out of the box. For 50 yuans the hype seems deserved  .




Which model?


----------



## Wanderluster

Oops, my bad. The EDES. I thought about the ED8 but it seems so heavy and fit seems to be an issue for some...


----------



## bduncan5

wanderluster said:


> Oops, my bad. The EDES. I thought about the ED8 but it seems so heavy and fit seems to be an issue for some...


 

 Actually, for me, the ED8 is a very easy fit because it does not require deep insertion.and if you use it over the ear it works well with lots of different tips. Its large but physically balanced with adequate tip length.  Shallow insertion with foam or single flange will add some treble to the overall warm sound and the triple flange will provide a deep clear sound in addition to a very firm placement in the ear. Great for those who like a warm balanced sound with good detail and nice soundstage.


----------



## Wanderluster

bduncan5 said:


> Actually, for me, the ED8 is a very easy fit because it does not require deep insertion.and if you use it over the ear it works well with lots of different tips. Its large but physically balanced with adequate tip length.  Shallow insertion with foam or single flange will add some treble to the overall warm sound and the triple flange will provide a deep clear sound in addition to a very firm placement in the ear. Great for those who like a warm balanced sound with good detail and nice soundstage.


 
  
 That's nice to hear, I'll have to reconsider them for later. Here are some close-up pics of EDES now that I can add pictures 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## EISENbricher

@wonder :
Sick pics bro... You mean EDSE btw, right? They look beautiful. See this thread's album, even I had posted close ups of these babies. They are really cool. 




bduncan5 said:


> Actually, for me, the ED8 is a very easy fit because it does not require deep insertion.and if you use it over the ear it works well with lots of different tips. Its large but physically balanced with adequate tip length.  Shallow insertion with foam or single flange will add some treble to the overall warm sound and the triple flange will provide a deep clear sound in addition to a very firm placement in the ear. Great for those who like a warm balanced sound with good detail and nice soundstage.



Yeah ed8 is easy to fit. I use comply s400 on them and I totally enjoy its sound. It is nowhere near 'balanced' but it's quite fun sound and like you said, soundstage is nice and wide. A very good IEM for listening to EDM genre imo. 

Little worry I have about it is corrosion. The bronze like alloy metal part around its nozzle, I've found some signs of corrosion around it. It's not even been 2 full months since I've been using these. Well, still a very cool buy. They needed a lot of burn in though to reach at a point where the SQ is lovable and not totally dark or boomy.


----------



## Wanderluster

eisenbricher said:


> @wonder :
> Sick pics bro... You mean EDSE btw, right? They look beautiful. See this thread's album, even I had posted close ups of these babies. They are really cool.
> Yeah ed8 is easy to fit. I use comply s400 on them and I totally enjoy its sound. It is nowhere near 'balanced' but it's quite fun sound and like you said, soundstage is nice and wide. A very good IEM for listening to EDM genre imo.
> 
> Little worry I have about it is corrosion. The bronze like alloy metal part around its nozzle, I've found some signs of corrosion around it. It's not even been 2 full months since I've been using these. Well, still a very cool buy. They needed a lot of burn in though to reach at a point where the SQ is lovable and not totally dark or boomy.


 
  
 Yeah, I've been using the wrong name all along, I have the Chinese name in mind instead KZ ED特别版


----------



## bduncan5

eisenbricher said:


> @wonder :
> Sick pics bro... You mean EDSE btw, right? They look beautiful. See this thread's album, even I had posted close ups of these babies. They are really cool.
> Yeah ed8 is easy to fit. I use comply s400 on them and I totally enjoy its sound. It is nowhere near 'balanced' but it's quite fun sound and like you said, soundstage is nice and wide. A very good IEM for listening to EDM genre imo.
> 
> Little worry I have about it is corrosion. The bronze like alloy metal part around its nozzle, I've found some signs of corrosion around it. It's not even been 2 full months since I've been using these. Well, still a very cool buy. They needed a lot of burn in though to reach at a point where the SQ is lovable and not totally dark or boomy.


 

 Yes the Ed8 is not balanced in the audio sense it's L shaped, I tend to use the word when the music sounds right to me, smooth, not peaky with a good bass foundation.  You said it and I agreed it's a fun sound. I'm also noticing the treble coming on after about 50 hrs. Even noticing trace amounts of sibilance on some recordings with shallow placement single flange tips.


----------



## EISENbricher

bduncan5 said:


> Yes the Ed8 is not balanced in the audio sense it's L shaped, I tend to use the word when the music sounds right to me, smooth, not peaky with a good bass foundation.  You said it and I agreed it's a fun sound. I'm also noticing the treble coming on after about 50 hrs. Even noticing trace amounts of sibilance on some recordings with shallow placement single flange tips.



Exactly, exactly. I had almost gave up on these since the lack of treble and L signature. But some loooong burn in has improved these dramatically. 

See in my signature, I've ranked em at very bottom. That was my impression before some time. I'll run a re-check soon to re order my signature ranking as per my updated liking. ED8 will certainty move up


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Exactly, exactly. I had almost gave up on these since the lack of treble and L signature. But some loooong burn in has improved these dramatically.
> 
> See in my signature, I've ranked em at very bottom. That was my impression before some time. I'll run a re-check soon to re order my signature ranking as per my updated liking. ED8 will certainty move up


 
 Try shallow insertion of eartips and *raise the volume*. I hope you will like ED8 more.


----------



## Wokei

Wanderluster...me KZ ED2 ...without the red color grill.....maybe that's the different between them


----------



## chavez

wokei said:


> @Wanderluster...me KZ ED2 ...without the red color grill.....maybe that's the different between them


 
  
 That means I have ED2 not EDSE.Damn it. What's the difference? ED2 bassier?


----------



## Wokei

chavez said:


> That means I have ED2 not EDSE.Damn it. What's the difference? ED2 bassier?




To me...imho they are the same...ED2 or EDSE...they sound like what some member who me trust...btw the jack on me ED2 ...4 pole...and if you do a bit of research...the specs of ED2 and EDSE are the same..the last me checked



Personally me think KZ gotta get their model name sorted out...even the box still have GK printed on them....


----------



## Wanderluster

wokei said:


> To me...imho they are the same...ED2 or EDSE...they sound like what some member who me trust...btw the jack on me ED2 ...4 pole...and if you do a bit of research...the specs of ED2 and EDSE are the same..the last me checked
> 
> 
> 
> Personally me think KZ gotta get their model name sorted out...even the box still have GK printed on them....


 
  
 Mine has only 3, 4 should be for the mic version.
  
 I couldn't find any ED2 on Chinese websites. I did find a EDR1 version that seems to be bassier and I think it's propably what they call ED2 on aliexpress. Here's the link for EDR1 on KZ's alibaba store: http://detail.1688.com/offer/43423947448.html


----------



## Wokei

wanderluster said:


> Mine has only 3, 4 should be for the mic version.
> 
> I couldn't find any ED2 on Chinese websites. I did find a EDR1 version that seems to be bassier and I think it's propably what they call ED2 on aliexpress. Here's the link for EDR1 on KZ's alibaba store: http://detail.1688.com/offer/43423947448.html




Mine is not the mic version...it's "supposed" to be balanced jack iirc...though don't have any dap with balanced input to test it out...Don't know about EDR1...the plots thickened...Haha...as long they sound  good...the name don't matter...

Fyi...when me bought ED2...there were no EDSE model yet afaik at that time...it came later maybe one or two months after that...mind you that was before the KZ official store in Aliexpress...


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> Try shallow insertion of eartips and *raise the volume*. I hope you will like ED8 more.


 
  
 That is some messed up advice.  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/health/hearing-loss-loud-music/index.html
  
 And this - http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/ear-care/en/


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> That is some messed up advice.  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/health/hearing-loss-loud-music/index.html
> 
> And this - http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/ear-care/en/


 
 I believe he is keeping it below dangerous levels. I used to listen to IEMs at loud volume but I began noticing a slight hearing loss, since then I keep the volume at medium, or just enjoyable levels and rely on better isolation tips. Thankfully my hearing loss was not permanent and since then it returned to normal : )


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > That is some messed up advice.  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/health/hearing-loss-loud-music/index.html
> ...


 
  
 Some hearing loss is temporary, but still long term damage is done even if the hearing returns. Instead of raising the volume we should encourage people to listen at the lowest level possible for enjoyment. In noisy environments at times I listen too loud to overwhelm the outside noise, and this is a bad mistake. Can you put a price on your hearing? Does it make sense to pay $7 for the ed8 that you have to listen to it at loud volumes to get good sq? I want everyone to enjoy our hobby in a safe manner.
  
 Also, when listing to live music you gotta wear earplugs at most venues. Or pay years ahead down the road. But back to KZ,
  
 I just had a flight last week and of all my IEM's to choose from I chose EDSE with home made foam eartips. I used the silicon tip that came with the EDSE, an peeled off the end - like removing the cap of a mushroom, and put that on the shaft of the IEM. It extends beyone the grill so metal never touches the ear. The SQ and seal was very good.


----------



## EISENbricher

Yay! A reputed reseller here in India has started to carry KZ IEMs. (currently only EDSE and ED8)

What is better is, that he's selling these at reasonable prices 

For my Indian bros : http://www.hifinage.com/


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Yay! A reputed reseller here in India has started to carry KZ IEMs. (currently only EDSE and ED8)
> 
> What is better is, that he's selling these at reasonable prices
> 
> ...


 
 That's a good find/price (hopefully no hidden extra charges like tax n shipping et al) #ThumbsUp


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> That's a good find/price (hopefully no hidden extra charges like tax n shipping et al) #ThumbsUp


 
 Yeah, and he's also providing 1 year warranty


----------



## Hisoundfi

I revisited the KZEDSE today. I'm still to this day really impressed with these things.
  
 One thing that I think isn't very often mentioned, and one of the things that I think makes them so special is their huge soundstage for an in ear monitor. They extend well in both directions, and there is a energetic treble response and shimmer that gives them great height, and brings music to life. While I do wish the treble response was a microfraction less harsh and more towards the relaxed side, there's no denying that the soundstage is really large for an IEM, giving it a sense of space and depth to the sound that you often times don't get in really expensive gear. This was without a doubt one of, and if not the best bang for your buck deal of 2014/2015


----------



## EISENbricher

Agreed, these have nice soundstage. Just now I am playing Skyrim on PC and the big soundstage is really makes it more enjoyable.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Agreed, these have nice soundstage. Just now I am playing Skyrim on PC and the big soundstage is really makes it more enjoyable.


 
 I have to disagree. I don't think EDSE has huge soundstage.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I have to disagree. I don't think EDSE has huge soundstage.


 
 I didn't say huge, ED8 have huge soundstage, EDSE's is just nice.


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> That is some messed up advice.  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/health/hearing-loss-loud-music/index.html
> 
> And this - http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/ear-care/en/


 
 I guess you don't understand physics. When air pressure has changed, you need to change sound volume in order to hear the same level of loudness. If it doesn't exceed safety level, what's wrong with RAISING THE VOLUME?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Deleted. 

I like headphones


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## mochill

infected mushrooms !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## vovka

kz logo on audio-technica replica?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sale-Original-Quality-KZ-CKS99-Noise-Cancelling-HiFi-Deep-Bass-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Stereo-Music/1887714483.html


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I guess you don't understand physics. When air pressure has changed, you need to change sound volume in order to hear the same level of loudness. If it doesn't exceed safety level, what's wrong with RAISING THE VOLUME?


 
 RAISING THE VOLUME term is giving different impression to different people, of course we are on head-fi 
  
 I'll summerize this, 
  
*ilikeiem *proposes to use ED8 at max volume level possible within safe limit.
*Ira Delphic* thought that it means raising the volume beyond danger levels.
  
 As simple as that. Nevertheless, the article was a good read and every audiophile must go through it to avoid hearing loss. IEMs are pretty recent development in audiophile world and so we are not very aware of its long term effects. There are headphones are earbuds, but IEM deserves special mention and attention since it seals the ear in best way possible.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > That is some messed up advice.  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/health/hearing-loss-loud-music/index.html
> ...


 
  
 Nowhere in your original post is "safe level" mentioned. You told someone to turn up the volume. Did you think that someone was listening to the level too low to hear the music? The required sound volume is dynamic. It depends on ambient exterior noise and the volume/gain of the source recording. 
  
 Turning up the volume of an IEM will mask crappy SQ, but I think it is better to just get a good IEM to begin with. My blue ED8 had very muddy bass and even though it's inexpensive, was unacceptable for my needs. The red ones may have very different tuning (and better) SQ from what I've read. 
  
 Different subject - my order of KZ R1 arrived - and instead of 3 IEM's they included only 1. I opened the dispute process.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> Different subject - my order of KZ R1 arrived - and instead of 3 IEM's they included only 1. I opened the dispute process.


 
 This sucks. How can they be so careless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hopefully you'll get the return. Update later what response you get from them.
  
 I still haven't received my Blue ED8 that I had ordered on launch date. Since some date in Jan it's been trapped on Shanghai airport. I had opened dispute but they said wait because of CNY.. but still no much help.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > Different subject - my order of KZ R1 arrived - and instead of 3 IEM's they included only 1. I opened the dispute process.
> ...


 
  
 2 months+ is way too long! You should just get the refund and move on.
  
 I didn't want to mention the R1 seller - we'll see what happens. If they _don't _provide a satisfactory outcome I'll post the seller info. It's only $4.08 per  IEM so I can't get too angry at them.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ira delphic said:


> 2 months+ is way too long! You should just get the refund and move on.
> 
> I didn't want to mention the R1 seller - we'll see what happens. If they _don't_ provide a satisfactory outcome I'll post the seller info. It's only $4.08 per  IEM so I can't get too angry at them.




Two month is too long, however that's about how long it took my new ANV and CM9 to arrive. They just came in today. Can't wait to go home...damn you work!


----------



## Ira Delphic

b9scrambler said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > 2 months+ is way too long! You should just get the refund and move on.
> ...


 
  
 I've received KZ's from Aliexpress in as little as 2 weeks. 2 months to Canada is a long time. I guess we have to learn to  be patient.


----------



## EISENbricher

Longest time for me was 2.5 months, for a leather earphone carry pouch that I had ordered from them.
  
 Will wait a little more.. last activity on shipping ID was on 15th Feb, as I just checked.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Longest time for me was 2.5 months, for a leather earphone carry pouch that I had ordered from them.
> 
> Will wait a little more.. last activity on shipping ID was on 15th Feb, as I just checked.


 
 Did you buy from KZ earphone official flagship store? Seller guarantees on time delivery.  Full refund if product isn't received in 39 days. No need to wait.  I don't know whether the number of days depends on destination country or not.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Did you buy from KZ earphone official flagship store? Seller guarantees on time delivery.  Full refund if product isn't received in 39 days. No need to wait.  I don't know whether the number of days depends on destination country or not.



Yes I had bought from that seller only. It was 39 days for me as well. I had even raised dispute on the last day but seller pleaded to me in such manner that I agreed and took back dispute, believing that someday the blue ed8 will arrive.


----------



## Suneth

Hi guys
  
 I would like to know your impressions on KZ-ANV 
  
 thanks


----------



## Shadowsora

I am still waiting for my EDSE too, i think it arrived and i will have it tommorow.
 Meanwhile i ordered Tuners(r35), Ivery IS-1(no kz), and an ofc cable to recable my current mh1.
 Edit: Want to hear opinions for ANV too, i read their highs are kinda harsh is it true?


----------



## goa604

ilikeiem said:


> Did you buy from KZ earphone official flagship store? Seller guarantees on time delivery.  Full refund if product isn't received in 39 days. No need to wait.  I don't know whether the number of days depends on destination country or not.


 
 BS. I never received a refund after i got a defective product. They begged me to close the dispute saying they sent me a new pair. As soon as i closed the dispute they said it was a misunderstanding. 
 After that they just played dumb and acted like they dont understand basic english.


----------



## Ruben123

goa604 said:


> BS. I never received a refund after i got a defective product. They begged me to close the dispute saying they sent me a new pair. As soon as i closed the dispute they said it was a misunderstanding.
> After that they just played dumb and acted like they dont understand basic english.


 

 Placing a very negative feedback would help sometimes.


----------



## Wokei

goa604 said:


> BS. I never received a refund after i got a defective product. They begged me to close the dispute saying they sent me a new pair. As soon as i closed the dispute they said it was a misunderstanding.
> 
> After that they just played dumb and acted like they dont understand basic english.







ruben123 said:


> Placing a very negative feedback would help sometimes.




Put in three dispute in Aliexpress bcuz the item did not arrived ...the sensible thing to do is put in the dispute before the 30+ days and that will compel the seller to reply iirc within 10 days or less .......that will prolong your protection .....until the item arrived ....there was this seller that pm me begging me to close the dispute ..dont do that cuz once closed ....its bye bye ....after all the item was sent using registered post with tracking ....so if not delivered within the stipukated protection period ...put in the dispute and have them refund to you and if they do arrived ..pay the seller ....that way ...you are protected....just me 2 cent


----------



## Ruben123

wokei said:


> Put in three dispute in Aliexpress bcuz the item did not arrived ...the sensible thing to do is put in the dispute before the 30+ days and that will compel the seller to reply iirc within 10 days or less .......that will prolong your protection .....until the item arrived ....there was this seller that pm me begging me to close the dispute ..dont do that cuz once closed ....its bye bye ....after all the item was sent using registered post with tracking ....so if not delivered within the stipukated protection period ...put in the dispute and have them refund to you and if they do arrived ..pay the seller ....that way ...you are protected....just me 2 cent


 

 The problem is that goa604 opened a dispute, but closed it. Than all hope is gone. I too have some defective 512GB usb sticks (dont buy them!!) and they beg me to close the dispute so we can talk further.... but I am not doing that.


----------



## Wokei

Lessons is protect yourself at all time ..


----------



## EISENbricher

Lesson learned, no dispute shall be closed next time. No matter how much the seller begs.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Lesson learned, no dispute shall be closed next time. No matter how much the seller begs.


 
  
 My seller is begging me to drop the dispute and said they will do the partial refund...right!


----------



## Wokei

ira delphic said:


> My seller is begging me to drop the dispute and said they will do the partial refund...right!






Refund first ...then we talk


----------



## dbhai

eisenbricher said:


> Yay! A reputed reseller here in India has started to carry KZ IEMs. (currently only EDSE and ED8)
> 
> What is better is, that he's selling these at reasonable prices
> 
> ...


 
  
  


mebaali said:


> That's a good find/price (hopefully no hidden extra charges like tax n shipping et al) #ThumbsUp


 
  
 Thank you for sharing, I checked EDSE n blue colorered ED8 with mic are listed 
  
 ED8 with mic total cost (in INR) is like this - listed price 496.06 + tax 64.96 = total 560.55 (till this point it sounds really amazing price) + 130 bluedart shipping = 690.55 
  
 A little on higher side I believe


----------



## EISENbricher

dbhai said:


> Thank you for sharing, I checked EDSE n blue colorered ED8 with mic are listed
> 
> ED8 with mic total cost (in INR) is like this - listed price 496.06 + tax 64.96 = total 560.55 (till this point it sounds really amazing price) + 130 bluedart shipping = 690.55
> 
> A little on higher side I believe


 
 Still a better deal than KZ Flagship store. I've seen random sellers selling EDSE for INR 1300+ on Ebay India. You'll be paying INR190 extra on hifinage but in return get 1 year warranty + quick shipping. 
  
 But you are right, the shipping and tax adds too much overhead than expected.


----------



## dbhai

eisenbricher said:


> Still a better deal than KZ Flagship store. I've seen random sellers selling EDSE for INR 1300+ on Ebay India. You'll be paying INR190 extra on hifinage but in return get 1 year warranty + quick shipping.
> 
> But you are right, the shipping and tax adds too much overhead than expected.


 
  
 I asked them on fb, said shipping cost is same for buying any IEM from their store. It is a good option though for us.


----------



## tsetse7

I ordered ED8 and a leather pouch and received ED8 and an extension cable...
 Sent them (KZ flagship store) a message... but they never responded. Next time I will just open a dispute.
 Guess they don't care if dispute is not opened... For now I will just leave a negative feedback just so they understand that it is good practice to answer messages outside of dispute....


----------



## EISENbricher

tsetse7 said:


> I ordered ED8 and a leather pouch and received ED8 and an extension cable...
> Sent them (KZ flagship store) a message... but they never responded. Next time I will just open a dispute.
> Guess they don't care if dispute is not opened... For now I will just leave a negative feedback just so they understand that it is good practice to answer messages outside of dispute....


 
 Such a lousy customer care... they should improve on it.


----------



## Shadowsora

Well unfortunately most chinese sellers from ebay/aliexpress and chinese stores beg you in a good manner to not open a dispute or to close it then if you don't receive a refund or the product they don't even answer to you.
 It's kinda akward to be harsh but it's the only way to deal with them if you don't wanna lose your money.
 Though they are right, 90% of the time it's not their fault if a package gets lost and they lose money from this but hey the customer is always right


----------



## Zoop

jsut want to say hi, i added ed8m to my collection. i like them so much im tempted to buy a second pair and create a balanced pair


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> jsut want to say hi, i added ed8m to my collection. i like them so much im tempted to buy a second pair and create a balanced pair


 
 Good to know that you are liking the ED8m. Which version do you have, red or blue?


----------



## Zoop

i got the blue ones. i must say i didnt like them at first when i tried them in my office with my samsung note 2. then i used my JDS O2, and got much better results at home.


----------



## mebaali

dbhai said:


> Thank you for sharing, I checked EDSE n blue colorered ED8 with mic are listed
> 
> ED8 with mic total cost (in INR) is like this - listed price 496.06 + tax 64.96 = total 560.55 (till this point it sounds really amazing price) + 130 bluedart shipping = 690.55
> 
> A little on higher side I believe


 

 That's been the common complaint against hifinage. Their prices (after including taxes and shipping charges) are usually bit on the higher side (somewhat similar to pro-audiohome) than the going price in the market.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Yay! My new CM9 and ANV arrived today.
  
 Positive: The ANV sounds better than my old one. Much smoother treble ootb...no need for my filter mod. Woohoo!
  
 Negative: Right channel on the CM9 is down and out for the count. Opened a dispute....lets see how things go


----------



## chavez

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-original-KZ-IE80-in-ear-headphones-fever-wire-balance-HIFI-bass-for-mp3-mp4/32235846861.html
  
 Is this real?


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Yay! My new CM9 and ANV arrived today.
> 
> Positive: The ANV sounds better than my old one. Much smoother treble ootb...no need for my filter mod. Woohoo!
> 
> Negative: Right channel on the CM9 is down and out for the count. Opened a dispute....lets see how things go



How would you describe ANV's signature? And how about the fit? Looking at its shape and size I have doubts about its fit. 

Planning to try ANV and DT3 very soon. ED3 already on its way. 


chavez said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-original-KZ-IE80-in-ear-headphones-fever-wire-balance-HIFI-bass-for-mp3-mp4/32235846861.html
> 
> Is this real?



From what I've seen here in this thread it's not new. Nothing special about its sound.


----------



## ilikeiem

suneth said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I would like to know your impressions on KZ-ANV
> 
> thanks


 
 As far as I remember there are several version of ANZ. Here is mine:

  
 I think it is the most balance sound from KZ. Detailed sound with weak bass makes you hear music notes easier ( Definitely not for everyone )
 IMHO,  many KZ models still has problem with treble, too harsh.  High pitch sound tends to sound like metal. I wanna hear the truth (I'm not a fan of JBL anyway).. LOL.   For cheap IEM, they should try Moxpad and see how it handles treble.


----------



## tsetse7

ilikeiem said:


> As far as I remember there are several version of ANZ. Here is mine:
> 
> 
> I think it is the most balance sound from KZ. Detailed sound with weak bass makes you hear music notes easier ( Definitely not for everyone )
> IMHO,  many KZ models still has problem with treble, too harsh.  High pitch sound tends to sound like metal. I wanna hear the truth (I'm not a fan of JBL anyway).. LOL.   For cheap IEM, they should try Moxpad and see how it handles treble.


 
 I have the Moxpad and the ED8 and I prefer the KZ ed8, not that I have done any extensive comparison... but I am using ed8 with Foobar2000 output WASAPI event and paired to HifiMeDIY UX1 24/96 DAC and it sounds awesome (I have also resampled the output to 96000 Hz in Foobar to match UX1 max sample rate). Ed8 just need a good DAC and high current output I think and the UX1 delivers plenty of power to push ed8 to high level without distortion. I don't remember having anything special with a Smartphone (Sony Z1 Compact).


----------



## Zoop

i dont see much mention of the DT5,  are they too new?


----------



## Shadowsora

@*ilikeiem *, Thanks for the mini review i was really wondering how anv sounds.
 I think i will give them a try, they will be my first "oversized" drivers iem, I will wait for a sale though so i can spam the add to the cart button without worries.


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> i dont see much mention of the DT5,  are they too new?


 
 Not really, but they aren't among best sounding KZs and maybe that's why not much popular. They looks awesome though.


----------



## B9Scrambler

> Originally Posted by *Shadowsora* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> I think i will give them a try, they will be my first "oversized" drivers iem, I will wait for a sale though so i can spam the add to the cart button without worries.


 

 Definitely give them a try....at the very least if you don't like them you are only down a few bucks. They're one of my fav KZ iems along with the Micro Ring. I have the fan favorite EDse but really don't see the appeal after owning these other two. Don't get me wrong, the EDse are great, but the ANV has punchier bass, cleaner mids, and more detailed treble. Plus a larger soundstage...the EDse certainly sound less airy and refined during A/B comparisons. The splashy treble kills is for me tbh. The ANV are also exceptionally comfortable....Titan 1-like in that regard, despite the additional size. With the correct tips (large Sony Hybrids for me)  the bass is not lacking at all. They're not basshead phones by any means, but the bass is fantastic; as mentioned above, quick, punchy, but it also extends quite deep...lots of subbass rumble. They're just very energetic and engaging overall.
  
  
 My first pair of ANV had somewhat harsh and artificial treble, but Sony Hybrid tips with a ball of fabric stuffed inside fixed that problem outright. My new ANV are much cleaner sounding than the first pair....no need for the ball of fabric. These are very capable phones, and entirely under appreciated IMO, harsh treble or not.


----------



## CoiL

Thanks, will get ANV next.


----------



## Suneth

ilikeiem said:


> As far as I remember there are several version of ANZ. Here is mine:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the review. I'm going to buy Moxpad x3 first and try them. (going sale on 17 march)


----------



## Zoop

eisenbricher said:


> Not really, but they aren't among best sounding KZs and maybe that's why not much popular. They looks awesome though.


 
 i see! saved a few bucks!! 
  
 im tempted to buy a second pair of ed8m and rip out one channel and run balanced setup


----------



## EISENbricher

woops... double post, deleted.


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> i see! saved a few bucks!!
> 
> im tempted to buy a second pair of ed8m and rip out one channel and run balanced setup


 
 Can you explain how it is done? I didn't get it.. What is balanced setup that you are mentioning here? 
  
 Quote:


b9scrambler said:


> Definitely give them a try....at the very least if you don't like them you are only down a few bucks. They're one of my fav KZ iems along with the Micro Ring. I have the fan favorite EDse but really don't see the appeal after owning these other two. Don't get me wrong, the EDse are great, but the ANV has punchier bass, cleaner mids, and more detailed treble. Plus a larger soundstage...the EDse certainly sound less airy and refined during A/B comparisons. The splashy treble kills is for me tbh. The ANV are also exceptionally comfortable....Titan 1-like in that regard, despite the additional size. With the correct tips (large Sony Hybrids for me)  the bass is not lacking at all. They're not basshead phones by any means, but the bass is fantastic; as mentioned above, quick, punchy, but it also extends quite deep...lots of subbass rumble. They're just very energetic and engaging overall.
> 
> 
> My first pair of ANV had somewhat harsh and artificial treble, but Sony Hybrid tips with a ball of fabric stuffed inside fixed that problem outright. My new ANV are much cleaner sounding than the first pair....no need for the ball of fabric. These are very capable phones, and entirely under appreciated IMO, harsh treble or not.


 
 I agree, EDSE are like reference KZ. They don't have anything particular that really sets it apart. There are some KZ which will give better fit while being lighter. Some do exceptionally well in specific frequency regions, such as like you said I've seen many people highlighting ANV's ability to produce detailed treble and being clean. Person preferring warmer sound might like DT3 more.
  
 EDSE just are sitting in the middle of everything, while not being best at anything they cover up by being the above average in all things. 
  
 Just my little analysis of thread's opinions, haha. I own only EDSE and ED8.


----------



## Zoop

Basically like the new Sony XBA Z5/Z7 setup with the PHA-3. 
  
 the PHA-3 offers two 3.5mm jacks for each channel and each has its own '-' rather than sharing like most headphones.
  
 they call it balanced, but not in the sense of XLR interconnections, but just each channel has its own ground to prevent cross talk.
  
 so im thinking if i get a second pair, then rip out the right channel (physically cut it), then on the first pair, i will cut off the left channel. then it will do the same as each side will now has its own jack/ground (need an amp with 4 pin XLR, or square connector like pioneer XPA-700 or ponoplayer or sony PHA-3.  
  
 (so, more of a dual-mono setup)


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> Basically like the new Sony XBA Z5/Z7 setup with the PHA-3.
> 
> the PHA-3 offers two 3.5mm jacks for each channel and each has its own '-' rather than sharing like most headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh thank you, I get the idea now. Good idea actually, hopefully your new ED8 will sound same as your current one. For a brand such as KZ I'll rather order two new ED8 of same color that gives most assurance of drivers bring similar with minimum variance in sound. 
  
 Btw best would be to keep both the earpieces from same pair, and just find some way to separate each one's ground. I think you might be able to do this by using jack to Y-split part of the cable from new pair and connect one of the earpiece to that cable.


----------



## Zoop

eisenbricher said:


> Oh thank you, I get the idea now. Good idea actually, hopefully your new ED8 will sound same as your current one. For a brand such as KZ I'll rather order two new ED8 of same color that gives most assurance of drivers bring similar with minimum variance in sound.
> 
> Btw best would be to keep both the earpieces from same pair, and just find some way to separate each one's ground. I think you might be able to do this by using jack to Y-split part of the cable from new pair and connect one of the earpiece to that cable.


 
 you hit the nail on the head. that's my primary concern at the moment (batch variation), so i might order another two pairs to minimise the chance of that happening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (at this very moment, i actually prefer listening the ED8m over my d7100 for live music....)


----------



## Shawn71

zoop said:


> Basically like the new Sony XBA Z5/Z7 setup with the PHA-3.
> 
> the PHA-3 offers two 3.5mm jacks for each channel and each has its own '-' rather than sharing like most headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 If you cld crack open the shells ( not really cracking actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) you can de-solder the existing cables and use the desired cable of your own with a 4 pole 3.5mm jack (both after market)........


----------



## Zoop

unfortunately the downside of living in london is that my tiny tiny studio cannot allow the space for soldering kit or much of other DIY equipment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 but if i were to do it, i will just cut off the existing pair at the Y split before the two  '-' join. then solder a mono 3.5mm male on each; then just use standard 3.5mm extension to the jacks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 (this will prevent me having to open up and do any internal mod to the ear piece/driver itself. save some hassles)


----------



## Shawn71

zoop said:


> unfortunately the downside of living in london is that my tiny tiny studio cannot allow the space for soldering kit or much of other DIY equipment


 
 Sure......but you gotta have to solder the cables if you physically cut them, anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.......


----------



## Zoop

i was just going to tape it up and make sure it doesnt short circuit and that was it....


----------



## Shawn71

zoop said:


> i was just going to tape it up and make sure it doesnt short circuit and that was it....


 
 k.....good luck.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. friendly advice tho, not just about SC but its about static and sound cutting over period of time.....


----------



## EISENbricher

shawn71 said:


> If you cld crack open the shells ( not really cracking actually  ) you can de-solder the existing cables and use the desired cable of your own with a 4 pole 3.5mm jack (both after market)........



Haha these ED8 things are like hammers. I'd give up on trying opening these. Would be interested if someone finds a way to open it tho haha



zoop said:


> you hit the nail on the head. that's my primary concern at the moment (batch variation), so i might order another two pairs to minimise the chance of that happening.
> 
> (at this very moment, i actually prefer listening the ED8m over my d7100 for live music....)



Best luck for your recipe. 

Yeah lol it always amazes me to see low costing stuff sounding sooo good these days.


----------



## EarTips

Guys, look at this offer!!!
 Is it good and true?
 Hope that its not a scam.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Topping-TP-NX1-Portable-3-5mm-Headphone-Amplifier-USB-Rechargeable-Battery-for-iPhone-4S-5S-6/32276867830.html


----------



## Shawn71

eartips said:


> Guys, look at this offer!!!
> Is it good and true?
> Hope that its not a scam.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Topping-TP-NX1-Portable-3-5mm-Headphone-Amplifier-USB-Rechargeable-Battery-for-iPhone-4S-5S-6/32276867830.html


 
 Well looking @ 99.3% +FB and the pictures, its a no brainer.......but still check with the seller about authenticity......Err, hard to control the itchy witchy wallet.


----------



## EISENbricher

eartips said:


> Guys, look at this offer!!!
> Is it good and true?
> Hope that its not a scam.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Topping-TP-NX1-Portable-3-5mm-Headphone-Amplifier-USB-Rechargeable-Battery-for-iPhone-4S-5S-6/32276867830.html


 
 Great, I'm forwarding this link in NX1 thread : )


----------



## EarTips

shawn71 said:


> Well looking @ 99.3% +FB and the pictures, its a no brainer.......but still check with the seller about authenticity......Err, hard to control the itchy witchy wallet.


 
  
  


eisenbricher said:


> Great, I'm forwarding this link in NX1 thread : )


 
 Hope that its genuine


----------



## Shawn71

eisenbricher said:


> Great, I'm forwarding this link in NX1 thread : )


 
 pls add chines/asian and discovery thread if you cld......to our folks there.


----------



## Wanderluster

Like others, I got a much better fit with Sony hybrids tips. Now my EDSE won't fall off when I shake my head thanks to the larger diameter of the tips.
  
 Also my gf tried my EDSE and decided to keep them so I bought another pair plus a pair of ANV at KZ's alibaba store. 49.9 rmb (~7.95$) for ANV and 39 rmb (~6.3$) for EDSE, even cheaper than taobao.


----------



## EISENbricher

shawn71 said:


> pls add chines/asian and discovery thread if you cld......to our folks there.


 
 Okay, will do that. 
  


wanderluster said:


> Like others, I got a much better fit with Sony hybrids tips. Now my EDSE won't fall off when I shake my head thanks to the larger diameter of the tips.
> 
> Also my gf tried my EDSE and decided to keep them so I bought another pair plus a pair of ANV at KZ's alibaba store. 49.9 rmb (~7.95$) for ANV and 39 rmb (~6.3$) for EDSE, even cheaper than taobao.


 
  
  
 Sony Hybrid are good on ED8, I've used those. Currently I use comply, IMO they fit better than Sony Hybrids. Well anyway Hybrids are best among silicone tips.
  
 Where did you find deals that cheap? I see higher prices on KZ's official store. Can you post link to the store from where you have bought?


----------



## Wanderluster

eisenbricher said:


> Okay, will do that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://kzearphone.1688.com/
  
 I think many taobao shops buy from here for KZ stuff.


----------



## Shadowsora

EDSE just arrived, when i saw and felt the cable i was laughing from joy, it's damn great.
 Now about the sound, it's a bit bassier than i expected, not exactly bassier but more consistent(?). though they are fresh out of the box with no burn-in.
 Btw does anyone know how i can check if these are ed 2 and not edse? 
  
 (I am comparing them with MH1)
  
 EDIT: Silly me, was using my hifi as an amplifier and apparently the bass "issue" was from the "amplifier"S), using them on my smartphone with v4a and on my pc directly i can now hear what i was expecting to hear at first place, i can now imagine r35(Tuners) being a complete v shaped earphone though.


----------



## chavez

ED2's are with inline mic, no one knows for sure if they use same drivers for EDSE or not.
  
 Also did anyone review this pair?
  
 http://detail.1688.com/offer/43791632245.html


----------



## Wanderluster

chavez said:


> ED2's are with inline mic, no one knows for sure if they use same drivers for EDSE or not.
> 
> Also did anyone review this pair?
> 
> http://detail.1688.com/offer/43791632245.html


 
  
 Actually there are both versions for ED2.
  
 I can't find anything about them of Chinese websites and can only assume they are what is called EDR1 in China, which are sold quite cheaper than EDSE (30 vs 50-60).
 Also some sellers on taobao sell two versions of EDSE: bass and vocal versions. I think they use the fact that EDSE and EDR1 look the same to call the EDR1 the bassy version and sell for more than EDR1 usually go for.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> EDSE just arrived, when i saw and felt the cable i was laughing from joy, it's damn great.
> Now about the sound, it's a bit bassier than i expected, not exactly bassier but more consistent(?). though they are fresh out of the box with no burn-in.
> Btw does anyone know how i can check if these are ed 2 and not edse?
> 
> ...


 
 EDSE comes with Red filter, while ED2 comes with Gray/Black filter. That's how you can identify.
  
 Disclaimer : This is from what I've seen around, from user posted pics. I have with me EDSE.


----------



## Shadowsora

Thanks for the info, mine is with red filter as most EDSE pics i have seen here.
 I came in the same conclusion ED2= Dark/gray filter and EDSE red filter.


----------



## chavez

Crap.


----------



## Wokei

chavez said:


> Crap.




No worries ...mine is the same 

crap (2x)


----------



## robervaul

Does anyone have Aliexpress link EDSE red filter?


----------



## vovka

robervaul said:


> Does anyone have Aliexpress link EDSE red filter?


 
 i bought from here
 with red filters + mic
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Ear-Headphones-kz-ed-Special-Edition-low-microphone-volume-sales/2040486474.html


----------



## EISENbricher

Guys I've received ED3 today, too bad that I'd only get to listen to it next week since I had provided address to my parents' home. Visiting there next week.... 
  
 Quote:


robervaul said:


> Does anyone have Aliexpress link EDSE red filter?


 
 I've bought this one 3 different times and every time came with Red filter.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-headset-music-headset-phone-headset-bass-headphone-free-shipping/1380688_1987244299.html


----------



## robervaul

I'm thinking of buying these.

  ​ http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kinden-High-Stereo-Performance-Dual-Earbud-Headphones-Headset-with-mic-with-double-color-earpads-and-cable/32295020032.html
  
 Driver unit 8mm
 Impedance 16Ω±15%
 Frequency response 20-20000HZ
 Sensitivity 106dB±3dB
 Jack 3.5 mm
 Cable length 1.20M round cord


----------



## Shadowsora

I felt the need to throw a photo of my edse too :s


----------



## Wokei

chavez....since we have the same non red EDSE ...me was wondering whether your 3.5mm jack is 4 pole like mine ?


----------



## chavez

wokei said:


> chavez....since we have the same non red EDSE ...me was wondering whether your 3.5mm jack is 4 pole like mine ?





Yes they do. Altho when i was buying them it never said they are EDSe , the title was "headphones". Seller didnt know their name. Anything from aliexpress or taobao is extremly hard to get here in Serbia. When i saw the ad i asked him to picture them, sadly on the pic inline mic was hidden in the box so i assumed that were the edse. Long story short, im very satisfied and i doubt i would like flat signature of edse anyway since i listen to edm,jazz and reggae.


----------



## Wokei

chavez said:


> Yes they do. Altho when i was buying them it never said they are EDSe , the title was "headphones". Seller didnt know their name. Anything from aliexpress or taobao is extremly hard to get here in Serbia. When i saw the ad i asked him to picture them, sadly on the pic inline mic was hidden in the box so i assumed that were the edse. Long story short, im very satisfied and i doubt i would like flat signature of edse anyway since i listen to edm,jazz and reggae.




Mine does not have mic ...just for music...no worries...very happy with my KZ EDSE too...just checking..cheers


----------



## anduril

Any tips I try to put on EDSE as a replacement are loose - they slide along the nozzle.
 I know that there are different tip widths, but lengths?
  
 ...yeah, I know, that's what she said.


----------



## EISENbricher

*Oh crap I just noticed, now I'm 1000+ head-fier *
  
 Quote:


anduril said:


> Any tips I try to put on EDSE as a replacement are loose - they slide along the nozzle.
> I know that there are different tip widths, but lengths?
> 
> ...yeah, I know, that's what she said.


 
 I found Zero Audio tips perfect for EDSE. They are the match made in heaven. The nozzle lip fits very perfect in the inside groove of ZA tip and despite the tip being short it never slides across the length.
  
 You need to find the tips which have such groove on the insides.
  
 Another idea I'd like to provide is, wrap some layers of fine thread around EDSE nozzle to make it thicker. After you're done with wrapping add a drop of Glue or Superglue to make it semi permanent or permanent depending on your requirement.


----------



## Blasphem

Oke, KZ R1 are in front of me. (sorry for my english if there will be any mistakes, I'm polish )
  
 I can only compare'em to my old Philips SHE 9500. Seems less solid than Phillies. Sound is ok, pretty same level as SHE 9500, maybe lil bit deeper bass, but as have said, sound level is fully accepted, and it's not worse sound than in these phillies.
  
 One big minus for me is big microphone effect. I have bought them mostly for 30-40 min jogging so you know, cable will face a lot of movement, and it's very annoying. I will have to do some modifications to reduce it, or if it wont be possible, i will have to look for other earphones (still thinkin about that CoGoo).
  
 Any suggestions about reducing mic-effect will be very helpful.


----------



## EISENbricher

blasphem said:


> Oke, KZ R1 are in front of me. (sorry for my english if there will be any mistakes, I'm polish )
> 
> I can only compare'em to my old Philips SHE 9500. Seems less solid than Phillies. Sound is ok, pretty same level as SHE 9500, maybe lil bit deeper bass, but as have said, sound level is fully accepted, and it's not worse sound than in these phillies.
> 
> ...


 
 Get an ear guide!! Pretty much removes almost all cable noise.
  
 Like my EDSE :


----------



## Blasphem

Hmm not sure if it suits me. I have bought in-ear phones cuz its comfortable option for me, i don't really like stuff like this on photo ;/


----------



## Zoop

played with my ED8m (blue) abit more, just realise how much i like them and how much it fits with denon's sound signature. so i contacted manufacturer and ask what's the difference between blue and red. the customer service told me the blue one is more bassy and the red one is more transparent. so being the usual me when facing difficult decision....i bought both


----------



## vovka

blasphem said:


> Any suggestions about reducing mic-effect will be very helpful.


 
 http://s993.photobucket.com/user/KlipschBlogs/media/Ear%20Models/S4OverEar-1.jpg.html


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> played with my ED8m (blue) abit more, just realise how much i like them and how much it fits with denon's sound signature. so i contacted manufacturer and ask what's the difference between blue and red. the customer service told me the blue one is more bassy and the red one is more transparent. so being the usual me when facing difficult decision....i bought both



Wow really he said like that? I had ordered both versions too but only red reached to me. Blue is still stuck at Beijing. I love red but its already bassy. Any more bass and it becomes unbearable for me. Thankfully I got red haha. 



blasphem said:


> Hmm not sure if it suits me. I have bought in-ear phones cuz its comfortable option for me, i don't really like stuff like this on photo ;/



Ear guides are totally comfortable, my friend.


----------



## Blasphem

Where can i buy such an ear guides ? Or how to made it by myself?


----------



## EISENbricher

blasphem said:


> Where can i buy such an ear guides ? Or how to made it by myself?


 
 I can't think of a way to make these at home. The material is important... since these are made of Silicone they are flexible and comfortable. 
  
 I got mine with Havi B3 earphones. But some shops are selling these.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Diy-tools-welding-jig-speaker-headphone-plug-unit-retaining-clip-can-clip-8MM-9MM-10MM15MM/323026_2035855748.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/earhook-shell-Silicone-ear-hook-silicone-case/323026_32248485506.html
  
  
 Also, I've heard that ear guides / hooks are also available on lunashops.


----------



## anduril

eisenbricher said:


> I found Zero Audio tips perfect for EDSE. They are the match made in heaven. The nozzle lip fits very perfect in the inside groove of ZA tip and despite the tip being short it never slides across the length.
> 
> You need to find the tips which have such groove on the insides.
> 
> Another idea I'd like to provide is, wrap some layers of fine thread around EDSE nozzle to make it thicker. After you're done with wrapping add a drop of Glue or Superglue to make it semi permanent or permanent depending on your requirement.


 

 Thanks, will look!


----------



## Zoop

eisenbricher said:


> Wow really he said like that? I had ordered both versions too but only red reached to me. Blue is still stuck at Beijing. I love red but its already bassy. Any more bass and it becomes unbearable for me. Thankfully I got red haha.
> Ear guides are totally comfortable, my friend.


 
 i believe on the other side of the convo is a her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 but anyway, yes, thats what she said. i will report back once they arrived. 
  
 i have been using the sony XBA h3 hybrid tips with the blue ed8m. outside noise isolation improved, but bass seems abit leaner than original. i also have ER4 trip-flanged tips. i will give that a try in the coming week, if they fit....


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> i believe on the other side of the convo is a her
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just a silly question, assuming you have XBA H3 and ER4.. 
 What made you to listen to KZ ?
  
 And try EDSE once, it sounds more open and balanced to me than ED8m.


----------



## Zoop

eisenbricher said:


> Just a silly question, assuming you have XBA H3 and ER4..
> What made you to listen to KZ ?
> 
> And try EDSE once, it sounds more open and balanced to me than ED8m.


 
 i ordered the H3 back in beginning of december when amazon got their pricing system wrong (roughly 40% of listed price), but then it was out of stock, so i waited quite a few months before it arrived. 
  
 before the H3 arrived, around jan time, i was looking for other toys/replacement for my disintegrating CX450, then i came across KZ on here. i thought it will be a cheap stop-gap solution. but after ordering it, it took two months to get here, so around feb time,i was fed up with all these waiting. at the same time, so happened amazon got a good price on ER4 PT, so i ordered that. a week later, the H3 arrived, and a week after that the KZ arrived too. so now i have three pairs of iem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  
 if i have to rate it, for home/desktop use (movies, music) i like the KZ the most. on the move, i like the ER4 mainly because it is so light and easy to handle. the H3.... im thinking about offloading them too the second hand market,


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> i ordered the H3 back in beginning of december when amazon got their pricing system wrong (roughly 40% of listed price), but then it was out of stock, so i waited quite a few months before it arrived.
> 
> before the H3 arrived, around jan time, i was looking for other toys/replacement for my disintegrating CX450, then i came across KZ on here. i thought it will be a cheap stop-gap solution. but after ordering it, it took two months to get here, so around feb time,i was fed up with all these waiting. at the same time, so happened amazon got a good price on ER4 PT, so i ordered that. a week later, the H3 arrived, and a week after that the KZ arrived too. so now i have three pairs of iem
> 
> ...


 
 lol enjoy your new IEMs


----------



## Suneth

>


----------



## EISENbricher

Received KZ R1 today, wow initial impressions are great, it punches WAY above its price. I got it for $4.6 from KZ Official Flagship Store on AliExpress.
 Bass quantity is more than of EDSE and is a little muddier. Sound signature is a 'fun' sound sig. I'll make a detailed post (if requested) after at least 40hr burn in. I don't expect this to exceed EDSE, but in general R1 is a very cool option. I feel confident about the cable.


----------



## dbhai

Thank you for quick update and pictures, this will be my next one from kz


----------



## Shadowsora

Guys, does KZ official flagship store work for you?
 I get redirected to the G.K flagship store, it's from the same "company" but the prices there are higher and it has less products.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Guys, does KZ official flagship store work for you?
> I get redirected to the G.K flagship store, it's from the same "company" but the prices there are higher and it has less products.


 
  Was about to post this a while ago. I think that they are restructuring, or updating their store. I thought rather than posting I'd wait a few hours.
  
 So yeah, the problem that you've posted is there. 
  
 Quote:


dbhai said:


> Thank you for quick update and pictures, this will be my next one from kz


 
 Cool, get it whenever you can.... they are not special but cool thing to have as a good backup.


----------



## anduril

Nice pics of those KONWLEDGE Zenith R1s.


----------



## robervaul

@EISENbricher , Please, could you write a review, especially as compared to EDSE ? Thanks.


----------



## EISENbricher

anduril said:


> Nice pics of those KONWLEDGE Zenith R1s.


 
 Haha yeah how could they make such a silly mistake xD
  


robervaul said:


> @EISENbricher , Please, could you write a review, especially as compared to EDSE ? Thanks.


 
 Sure, that is something I can definitely do. I'll keep R1 on my burn in station for straight 48hrs and then do my review. I am quite a believer in burn-in.


----------



## anduril

eisenbricher said:


> I am quite a believer in burn-in.


 
 Nobody's perfect...
  
  
 ...just kidding!


----------



## bduncan5

My kz anv arrived yesterday just a little over 3 weeks after ordering. The 7 other kz models I ordered are still in China so I probably won"t see them for 2-3 more weeks. I'm very impressed with the anv even though I'm generally not a big fan of the Audio Technica house sound.... its usually too bright for me. Not to worry the highs are just fine and believe me they are in the usual Audio  Technica fashion prominent but thanks to that nice treble produce a very good sound stage with very cool layering, as well as depth and detail. The bass is very good but not over done and the mids are fantastic, reproducing the human voice is what this iem does best. Also very comfortable to wear.  Another nice product from kz. I can see now why some people (I'm now one of them) love the Audio Technica sound.  This product achieves a wonderful balance.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bduncan5 said:


> My kz anv arrived yesterday just a little over 3 weeks after ordering. The 7 other kz models I ordered are still in China so I probably won"t see them for 2-3 more weeks. I'm very impressed with the anv even though I'm generally not a big fan of the Audio Technica house sound.... its usually too bright for me. Not to worry the highs are just fine and believe me they are in the usual Audio  Technica fashion prominent but thanks to that nice treble produce a very good sound stage with very cool layering, as well as depth and detail. The bass is very good but not over done and the mids are fantastic, reproducing the human voice is what this iem does best. Also very comfortable to wear.  Another nice product from kz. I can see now why some people (I'm now one of them) love the Audio Technica sound.  This product achieves a wonderful balance.




Awesome  very glad you like em. The ANV are underappreciated around here. Such a good iem.


----------



## bduncan5

Yes its an earphone to rediscover your record collection with.  A very unique iem, a way to dip your toe into analytical sound (which I usually don't care for) yet maintain a full balanced sound.


----------



## Shadowsora

I was about to order anv at 9.60 at g.k store(Aliexpress) and it has only ems shipping method which adds up to almost 30$, contacted the seller as it's their only product which doesn't have free shipping to my country.
 The sale ends it will go up to 12.00$ again, and i have a budget of 10$ 
  
 Edit: Seems i won't get ANV anytime soon, http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-CM9-acme-fever-professional-in-ear-headphones-HIFI-fever-standard-heavy-bass-headphones/2044936547.html 
 Found this though ^, as i searched for previous opinions on them they seem to be vocal oriented, exactly what i need atm so if anyone have them please provide feedback, thanks!


----------



## EISENbricher

KZ R1 caught me off guard... this earphone is seriously good. Its sound signature is radically different compared to EDSE and ED8. Here are my findings (Keep in mind, I have not used R1 extensively yet, but been rocking a lot since 2 days):
  

*Comfort *: R1 is most comfortable of the bunch. I can'e imagine any IEM being more comfortable than R1. It slides right into your ear, thanks to its diminutive size. Sleeping with these is very possible as R1 doesn't outside.
*Build Quality *: From jack to Y split the cable is pretty good, and is of same width as EDSE's cable. I don't see tangle issue with this cable. Cable from Y split to earpieces is thinner, but doesn't seem too fragile. There are nice strain relief everywhere except the upper end of Y split. If the cable hardens in future then this spot is to be looked at. Earpieces are made of plastic and are moderately sturdy. They would break if someone happens to step on these.
*Lows *: R1 has lot of sub bass and plenty mid bass. With narrow bore it becomes just too much and intrudes into mid frequencies. You want to use pretty wide bored tips with these. Sub bass is able to rumble and mid bass hits hard, both collectively slamming your eardrums. I don't see this happening with EDSE or ED8. Last time I had heard such hard hitting lows was when I tried Xiaomi Pistons.
*Mids *: Very mildly recessed. Voices sound good, but a get somewhat shadowed by other instruments. No weirdness or spikes in mids though. On equal footing with EDSE.
*Highs *: Highs are smooth, I see no sibilence here. Highs are crisp and in enough quantity, a bit less then EDSE.
*Soundstage *: Compared to EDSE and ED8, R1 are behind in soundstage. It's narrow, but don't take me wrong, I actually loved this fact. I'll explain this in summary below.
*Misc *: R1 are really sensitive and need lowest position of knob on my amp, to reach to my preferred listening levels. They do reveal noise present in Amps, which is usually hidden by earphones with less sensitivity.
  
 One word comes to mind while describing R1 is 'aggressive'. Big, hard hitting bass that slams right on the eardrums is something that I had been missing from my earphone inventory. Heck, even 'Extra Bass' Sony XB90EX with 16mm diaphragm failed to produce this much quantity of lows. 
  
 Listening to EDSE puts you in middle row, ED8 sounds like as if you are sitting in a back row, while R1 puts you right in the first row. It leaves impression of listening through Big speakers. Listening to EDM tracks was a wonderful experience with R1. Felt almost like being in a club.
  
 R1 has been the best value for money for me. Bought it for only $4.65, shipping included.
  
 Thanks @Ira Delphic for recommending R1 to me. I quite like these for their different sound, and I am quite enjoying my EDM collection with these earphones.


----------



## robervaul

eisenbricher said:


> KZ R1 caught me off guard... this earphone is seriously good. Its sound signature is radically different compared to EDSE and ED8. Here are my findings (Keep in mind, I have not used R1 extensively yet, but been rocking a lot since 2 days):
> 
> 
> *Comfort *: R1 is most comfortable of the bunch. I can'e imagine any IEM being more comfortable than R1. It slides right into your ear, thanks to its diminutive size. Sleeping with these is very possible as R1 doesn't outside.
> ...


 
 WOW, very nice impressions.
@EISENbricher, your review made R1 blue getting extinct in Aliexpress. I can't find them =(


----------



## EISENbricher

robervaul said:


> WOW, very nice impressions.
> @EISENbricher, your review made R1 blue getting extinct in Aliexpress. I can't find them =(


 
 Thanks : ) 
  
 Yeah I noticed that today... praying that it'll come back. I want to get another one as a backup. They really suit to my listening preference!!


----------



## robervaul

eisenbricher said:


> Thanks : )
> 
> Yeah I noticed that today... praying that it'll come back. I want to get another one as a backup. They really suit to my listening preference!!


 
I have S-018 also. R1 vs S-018 a short comparison, please? =D


----------



## Shadowsora

I really want their previous "estore" back, or at least fix the new one :S.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> KZ R1 caught me off guard... this earphone is seriously good. Its sound signature is radically different compared to EDSE and ED8. Here are my findings (Keep in mind, I have not used R1 extensively yet, but been rocking a lot since 2 days):
> 
> 
> *Comfort *: R1 is most comfortable of the bunch. I can'e imagine any IEM being more comfortable than R1. It slides right into your ear, thanks to its diminutive size. Sleeping with these is very possible as R1 doesn't outside.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing your impressions in detail! I'm glad you like the R1's!  I agree on everything you had to say. And the R1 are the only IEM's that I use (other than Pistons) that don't require tip rolling. The medium tips, for me, are just right!
  
 (BTW You may recall that after I got my first pair I ordered 3 more, and only received 1 of 3. After dispute I got a refund for the 2 missing pairs - never shipped. Now I need to order more.)


----------



## xrM

Seems like the KZ-R1 with right angle plug only comes in blue and not black.


----------



## EISENbricher

xrm said:


> Seems like the KZ-R1 with right angle plug only comes in blue and not black.


 
 Yeah I just saw pics and noticed that!! I wonder if sound is different as well.
  


ira delphic said:


> Thanks for sharing your impressions in detail! I'm glad you like the R1's!  I agree on everything you had to say. And the R1 are the only IEM's that I use (other than Pistons) that don't require tip rolling. The medium tips, for me, are just right!
> 
> (BTW You may recall that after I got my first pair I ordered 3 more, and only received 1 of 3. After dispute I got a refund for the 2 missing pairs - never shipped. Now I need to order more.)


 
 Yeah the default tips were nice too. 
  
 Oh that's great. Currently their store is not showing any items. I wonder what happened... 
  


robervaul said:


> I have S-018 also. R1 vs S-018 a short comparison, please? =D


 
 kk I'll try make a short comparison today.


----------



## Zoop

my red ED8m arrived on Saturday. I havent had much time to play with them yet. i notice cable is a bit thicker than the blue ones (my un-educated guess is that the unit is the same, but they change the cable to vary the sound). my initial impression is this: 
  
 the red one sounds very much like the blue ones, in terms of general rendering, but i feel they are a bit more amplifier friendly (i used Denon DA300usb with JDS Lab O2, i will try ipad and BMC pureDAC [single ended unfortunately] when i have more time).
  
 like KZ described, the red ones are abit lighter on the bass compared to the blue ones. still quite deep, way more than XBA-H3, again, hit pretty hard like the momentum on-ear mk1. but may be because of the slightly lighter bass, it ((appears)) to have a tiny bit more details in the mid (especially background/minor notes). i think the best/most notable finding for me is that, at similar volume, with the blue ones i can feel the deepest bass note vibrate all the way near my throat,  the red ones cant do the same. (volume knob on O2 is around 8-9 o'clock position with 1x gain)
  
 sound stage is quite wide, but not as wide as the blue ones.
  
 my initial conclusion (with certain guessing) is that the red ones are more mobile friendly, and the blue may be better for desktop (full rig) uses.


----------



## ilikeiem

zoop said:


> my red ED8m arrived on Saturday. I havent had much time to play with them yet. i notice cable is a bit thicker than the blue ones (my un-educated guess is that the unit is the same, but they change the cable to vary the sound). my initial impression is this:
> 
> the red one sounds very much like the blue ones, in terms of general rendering, but i feel they are a bit more amplifier friendly (i used Denon DA300usb with JDS Lab O2, i will try ipad and BMC pureDAC [single ended unfortunately] when i have more time).
> 
> ...


 
  
 After spending too much time with cheap KZ’s IEMs, I like KZ-ED8m(the blue one) + spiral ear tips the most in terms of sound quality.  No sign of harsh high. No sign of bass distortion like other KZ model. Impressive soundstage with quite good sound resolution. All you need is good source. I think ED8m is on par with $80 IEMs.   
  
 BTW, ED8s (the red one) is not my taste.


----------



## Zoop

ilikeiem said:


> After spending too much time with cheap KZ’s IEMs, I like KZ-ED8m(the blue one) + spiral ear tips the most in terms of sound quality.  No sign of harsh high. No sign of bass distortion like other KZ model. Impressive soundstage with quite good sound resolution. All you need is good source. I think ED8m is on par with $80 IEMs.
> 
> BTW, ED8s (the red one) is not my taste.


 
 to me, the red ones are abit like the book shelf speakers and the blues are floorstanders. you can easily tell they are from the same family, but the red ones just doesnt dive as deep and not quite as full. but far easier to control with lesser kit.


----------



## EISENbricher

zoop said:


> my red ED8m arrived on Saturday. I havent had much time to play with them yet. i notice cable is a bit thicker than the blue ones (my un-educated guess is that the unit is the same, but they change the cable to vary the sound). my initial impression is this:
> 
> the red one sounds very much like the blue ones, in terms of general rendering, but i feel they are a bit more amplifier friendly (i used Denon DA300usb with JDS Lab O2, i will try ipad and BMC pureDAC [single ended unfortunately] when i have more time).
> 
> ...



Good impressions.I have the red ones and I agree to most of the part. Too bad my blue ones were lost by China Post. Never reached to me. I'd love to make a comparison.


----------



## tremonade

Hello. I am new to this forum. I would like to know which IEM I should buy among these two. 
 Knowledge Zenith ED8M or Knowledge Zenith ED Special Edition?
 Only these two are available here and both costs around $7.5 here.
 So please suggest me the better one. I currently use the Soundmagic ES18.


----------



## EISENbricher

Looking closer I see different numbers embossed on R1.
6 on left and 5 on right. I wonder what these can mean...


----------



## Shawn71

eisenbricher said:


> Looking closer I see different numbers embossed on R1.
> 6 on left and 5 on right. I wonder what these can mean...


 

 very 3rd pair?.....


----------



## hqssui

Too bad it's out of stock in the Aliexpress store .. I was really tempted to get one after seeing EISENbricher's review ..


----------



## Hisoundfi

I think it's hilarious they spelled knowledge wrong on the R-1!

Ironic! 

Still it's a great little earphone!


----------



## Hisoundfi

"KONWLEDGE"


----------



## EISENbricher

robervaul said:


> I have
> 
> S
> -
> ...



Just did some comparison with S-018. Here's what I can figure out. 

*Bass :* R1 all the way. Large, rumbling sub bass and punchy mid bass. S-018's low section felt as if I was missing something. 
*Mids :* Gotta give S-018 praise for lifelike mids. R1 aren't very behind, bit instead of playing a main role they do a job of playing support and doesn't make you feel anything lacking. 
*Highs : *S-018 extends far in high range. R1 rolls off highs. S-018 sounds sibilent in some songs though. 
*Instrument separation and positioning :* S-018 all the way. Listening to these I get shocks thinking as if the sound is coming from outside and remove my earphone to check. 
*Soundstage :* S-018 is average, R1 is below average. 
*Misc :* I always have noticed a spike somewhere at upper mids in S-018. Sometimes it bothers me. 


To summarize this, R1 and S-018 sound quite different. While I was in A-B testing, I missed BIG lows when I wore S-018 and missed some details while listening to R1. For both I have used wide bore tips which I liked the most. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## EISENbricher

hqssui said:


> Too bad it's out of stock in the Aliexpress store .. I was really tempted to get one after seeing EISENbricher's review ..


 
 It's available at around $7-$8 at other stores. 
  
 http://cn1500314513.en.alibaba.com/product/60121014749-800786006/kz_r1_headphone_blue_color_plug_white_wire_music_plastic_in_ear_earphone_for_iphone_6.html
  
 Still totally worth the money!
  


hisoundfi said:


> I think it's hilarious they spelled knowledge wrong on the R-1!
> 
> Ironic!
> 
> Still it's a great little earphone!


 
 Hisound, do you own R1? 
  
 That mistake btw... really hurts me when I see it lel


----------



## hqssui

eisenbricher said:


> It's available at around $7-$8 at other stores.
> 
> http://cn1500314513.en.alibaba.com/product/60121014749-800786006/kz_r1_headphone_blue_color_plug_white_wire_music_plastic_in_ear_earphone_for_iphone_6.html
> 
> Still totally worth the money!


 
  
 Thanks , i will check that .


----------



## Shadowsora

I was checking taobao's prices on r1, and damn!
 http://i.imgur.com/foaJltM.jpg
  
 But using an agent defeats any purpose as it jumps to 8$.


----------



## yangian

Got KZSE. Ridiculous!!!
 The sound signature is almost the same as IE80 and have 85-90% SQ of IE80 with only <$8!!!
 I just wonder how the company run the business???


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> Got KZSE. Ridiculous!!!
> The sound signature is almost the same as IE80 and have 85-90% SQ of IE80 with only <$8!!!
> I just wonder how the company run the business???


 
 Wow... Which IE80 are you talking about btw (because KZ also have one IE80 model, essentially a Sennheiser ripoff). 
 EDSE if amazing VFM, and so are other KZ. Agreed to what you said.


----------



## yangian

eisenbricher said:


> Wow... Which IE80 are you talking about btw (because KZ also have one IE80 model, essentially a Sennheiser ripoff).
> EDSE if amazing VFM, and so are other KZ. Agreed to what you said.


 

 Of course Sennheiser. 
 Basically, I cannot tell difference between 80 and EDSE without carefully listening. The sound signature are almost the same! Only relative obvious difference is the soundstage. Of course IE80 is larger. But EDSE is also spacious!


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> Of course Sennheiser.
> Basically, I cannot tell difference between 80 and EDSE without carefully listening. The sound signature are almost the same! Only relative obvious difference is the soundstage. Of course IE80 is larger. But EDSE is also spacious!


 
 Wow, that's really impressive to know! I've myself never owned or even listened to earphones costing above $60.


----------



## yangian

eisenbricher said:


> Wow, that's really impressive to know! I've myself never owned or even listened to earphones costing above $60.


 

 I understand why you prefer EDSe over havi b3. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Chinese is admirable!!
 If you like warm sound, with EDSE, you can forget about all <300 headphones of warm sound.
  
 What's their best product? I also got ed8, it's not as impressive as EDSE, though also very great for its price!


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> I understand why you prefer EDSe over havi b3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll attribute that to a fact that I love warm sound. Havi B3 is an awesome earphone, no doubts, but it's not suitable for my taste, sounds too try. Plus I own only Topping NX1 which is slightly cold, ends up making Havi sound even more dryer.
  
 EDSE is sure a love. I've loved it since I received it. Very good sound, build and cable. Everything is nice about that earphone. These days I find myself more addicted to KZ R1. It's warmer than EDSE and has some peculiar perks. See my review of R1 just 1-2 pages back on this thread. Fantastic for listening to EDM. 
  
 I own ED8, it's generally good, it has advantage of soundstage over EDSE but less details and of course, they are really heavy. It can be used for self defence


----------



## yangian

eisenbricher said:


> I'll attribute that to a fact that I love warm sound. Havi B3 is an awesome earphone, no doubts, but it's not suitable for my taste, sounds too try. Plus I own only Topping NX1 which is slightly cold, ends up making Havi sound even more dryer.
> 
> EDSE is sure a love. I've loved it since I received it. Very good sound, build and cable. Everything is nice about that earphone. These days I find myself more addicted to KZ R1. It's warmer than EDSE and has some peculiar perks. See my review of R1 just 1-2 pages back on this thread. Fantastic for listening to EDM.
> 
> I own ED8, it's generally good, it has advantage of soundstage over EDSE but less details and of course, they are really heavy. It can be used for self defence


 

 I see. Thanks for sharing. What's impressive me most may not be their sound, but their build quality. How can they earn with such cheap price? or headphones products have extremely huge profits?


----------



## yangian

yangian said:


> Of course Sennheiser.
> Basically, I cannot tell difference between 80 and EDSE without carefully listening. The sound signature are almost the same! Only relative obvious difference is the soundstage. Of course IE80 is larger. But EDSE is also spacious!


 
 Carefully AB with IE80 again. Really great 3D imaging, very close to 80!! Analysis is a little bit weak than 80, but just a little bit.


----------



## ilikeiem

yangian said:


> Carefully AB with IE80 again. Really great 3D imaging, very close to 80!! Analysis is a little bit weak than 80, but just a little bit.


 
 Hmmm... really? Was it really *genuine* *Sennheiser IE80*?  What eartips did you use on KZ-EDSE?


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> Hmmm... really? Was it really *genuine* *Sennheiser IE80*?  What eartips did you use on KZ-EDSE?


 

 Of course. I also have cx 980, kef m200, ie800, ue600, etc. Though I did not listen to other ie80, I know my 80 must be genuine. Moreover, I bought from Amazon. So, amazing? Yeah! That's why I want to share at here.
 I just use the stock red tips of EDSE.


----------



## Suneth

Dunu Titan 1 going for 89.99 if enough voted

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dunu-titan-1-iem

Also is there any guide that explain words used by you guys? such as Warm,Bright etc...?


----------



## Hisoundfi

suneth said:


> Dunu Titan 1 going for 89.99 if enough voted
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dunu-titan-1-iem
> 
> Also is there any guide that explain words used by you guys? such as Warm,Bright etc...?


 
 That's a phenomenal deal on a phenomenal pair of IEMs. You guys who don't have them should cash in on this deal. They are amazeballs.
  
 The one word that needs no explanation is awesome. Get them!


----------



## yangian

hisoundfi said:


> That's a phenomenal deal on a phenomenal pair of IEMs. You guys who don't have them should cash in on this deal. They are amazeballs.
> 
> The one word that needs no explanation is awesome. Get them!


 

 Is it better than IE80? If not, buy EDSE. Even with $90, you can still get more than 10 EDSE!


----------



## Hisoundfi

yangian said:


> Is it better than IE80? If not, buy EDSE. Even with $90, you can still get more than 10 EDSE!


Buddy... I was the original hype master of the kzedse and yes it is very good, but they have nothing on the tuning of the Titan!


----------



## hqssui

suneth said:


> Dunu Titan 1 going for 89.99 if enough voted
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dunu-titan-1-iem
> 
> *Also is there any guide that explain words used by you guys? such as Warm,Bright etc...?*


 
  
 Check this link -
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary
  
 It is very helpful. I refer to this all the time..


----------



## yangian

hisoundfi said:


> Buddy... I was the original hype master of the kzedse and yes it is very good, but they have nothing on the tuning of the Titan!


 






 Yes, I'm kidding. But what's your opinion of Titan and EDSE?


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> Is it better than IE80? If not, buy EDSE. Even with $90, you can still get more than 10 EDSE!



KZ stuff is good in general but those new generation of IEM are on another level actually. I'd have bought Titan right away, provided I had money. But no, I am a poor person haha.


----------



## yangian

yangian said:


> Carefully AB with IE80 again. Really great 3D imaging, very close to 80!! Analysis is a little bit weak than 80, but just a little bit.


 

 Well, it still cannot compare with IE80 when listen to high dynamic symphonies, but still very great for the price!


----------



## EISENbricher

This place has nice reviews of many KZ IEMs : http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0
  
 R1 at low cost here, but no idea about this site's reputation and shipping : http://www.lightinthebox.com/kz-r1-3-5mm-blue-in-ear-music-headphone_p2762761.html?utm_campaign=cartcross


----------



## Koolpep

eisenbricher said:


> This place has nice reviews of many KZ IEMs : http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=168738.0
> 
> R1 at low cost here, but no idea about this site's reputation and shipping : http://www.lightinthebox.com/kz-r1-3-5mm-blue-in-ear-music-headphone_p2762761.html?utm_campaign=cartcross


 

 Here are reviews of the second link, the lightinthebox thingy:
 http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/lightinthebox.html
  

  
 I would not order anything there. 
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## EISENbricher

koolpep said:


> Here are reviews of the second link, the lightinthebox thingy:
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/lightinthebox.html
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm.. thought so, because I haven't seen anyone around here mention that site even once. Seems like a fraud site.


----------



## Ruben123

Ive bought many things from lightinthebox and miniinthebox. Nothing wrong and good customer service.


----------



## Koolpep

ruben123 said:


> Ive bought many things from lightinthebox and miniinthebox. Nothing wrong and good customer service.


 
 http://light-in-the-box.pissedconsumer.com
  
 Not disputing that you might have received good service but there seems to be too many bad experiences to recommend this store...
  
 I would not order there. That's just me


----------



## Ruben123

Oh well as long as they offer PayPal, i wouldnt be scared at all. But since there are lots of other shops... Dont bother with this one then 

EDIT
Well some of the reviews of lightinthebox are like ''bought it 3 weeks ago and still didnt receive it'', which is quite common time to wait (at 5 weeks I usually email them that its taken too long).


----------



## Ruben123

I compared edse to the havis and edse is very v-shaped compared to the budget flat master.
They did Bob Dylan with ease, though Mozart's symphonies didnt go that well.


----------



## yangian

ruben123 said:


> I compared edse to the havis and edse is very v-shaped compared to the budget flat master.
> They did Bob Dylan with ease, though Mozart's symphonies didnt go that well.


 

 Yeah, very V shape. First ear it's shining. More listening, it's kind of boring. Sound signature is very close to IE80. When AB them, pretty similar. But have no desire to continue after 15 mins. listening. But 80 can stay in my ear for a whole day. Don't know why.


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> Yeah, very V shape. First ear it's shining. More listening, it's kind of boring. Sound signature is very close to IE80. When AB them, pretty similar. But have no desire to continue after 15 mins. listening. But 80 can stay in my ear for a whole day. Don't know why.



Imo if an $8 earphone makes you think twice about a $250+ earphone, itself is a great achievement.


----------



## yangian

eisenbricher said:


> Imo if an $8 earphone makes you think twice about a $250+ earphone, itself is a great achievement.


 

 Yeah, yeah, I know. I love it.
 But I get much comfort from second thought. Otherwise, I would sell all those expensive ones. haha


----------



## yangian

ruben123 said:


> I compared edse to the havis and edse is very v-shaped compared to the budget flat master.
> They did Bob Dylan with ease, though Mozart's symphonies didnt go that well.


 

 I gave more time on it. I just think it's best for the price. Since it has very similar sonic as IE80, it works well for symphonies. I did not hear many great budgeted earphones. But EDSE is better/much better than those like MP8320, ue600, M9p for symphonies.
 Now I found why it did not sound that good as 80. Its imaging is not very clear. That's why it's easy to cause fatigue. I wonder if it could be improved after burning in?


----------



## Ruben123

No due to the v shape it does not work greatly with classical, and especially symphonies. Mp8320 is much better thanks to the great mids. But everyone their taste of course


----------



## yangian

ruben123 said:


> No due to the v shape it does not work greatly with classical, and especially symphonies. Mp8320 is much better thanks to the great mids. But everyone their taste of course


 

 Well, I admit 8320 is better for opera and maybe piano and violin solo, but not for symphonies/orchestra. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's well-known IE8/80 are best for symphonies, but they are all v shape more or less. Anyway, EDSE have much better soundstage and dynamic over 8320. And moreover, I don't know why, it seems the high of 8320 became more and more harsh after burning in. Now I cannot even endure it.


----------



## Ruben123

How is your seal? Mine is great and I have lots of bass, but just perfect enough for symphonies. Maybe yours is bad? I have 3 pairs and they're amazing, maybe 90% of havi's sound stage and a very neutral, though bright sound. Edse is too congested sounding for symphonies although I would happily listen to them with edse. Mp8320 are just better for classical and I could not think why people would choose v shape over neutral/tad bright for classical.


----------



## EISENbricher

You guys should try ED3 or ANV for symphonies and classical. EDSE is not really good at it with its mid going on backfoot.


----------



## yangian

ruben123 said:


> How is your seal? Mine is great and I have lots of bass, but just perfect enough for symphonies. Maybe yours is bad? I have 3 pairs and they're amazing, maybe 90% of havi's sound stage and a very neutral, though bright sound. Edse is too congested sounding for symphonies although I would happily listen to them with edse. Mp8320 are just better for classical and I could not think why people would choose v shape over neutral/tad bright for classical.


 

 Interesting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well, I used a lot 8320 before. I also think it has great bass quality. But I still need some EQ. After geting in more high end ones, I seldom used 8320. Now occasionally use it, just found a very harsh high. Well, anyway, you think soundstage of EDSE is congested? That's funny. People are different. 
 Anyway, Seenheiser are tuned for classical, especially high dynamic symphony, I think no one would deny it. Even 800 is v shape a little bit.


----------



## ilikeiem

yangian said:


> Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I also prefer v-shape IEM with classical music.


----------



## chavez

Which model is the best for the bass? I forgot amongst all the models.Was it R35?


----------



## EISENbricher

chavez said:


> Which model is the best for the bass? I forgot amongst all the models.Was it R35?



DT3 and R1.
No idea about R35...


----------



## Hisoundfi

yangian said:


> I gave more time on it. I just think it's best for the price. Since it has very similar sonic as IE80, it works well for symphonies. I did not hear many great budgeted earphones. But EDSE is better/much better than those like MP8320, ue600, M9p for symphonies.
> Now I found why it did not sound that good as 80. Its imaging is not very clear. That's why it's easy to cause fatigue. I wonder if it could be improved after burning in?


 
 The KZEDSE upscales very well. the better the source, the better they sound IMHO.
  
 They sound better with warm toned sources as well


----------



## EISENbricher

Received my ED3 yesterday. They are more vocal focused compared to EDSE/ED8. Mids and highs are better represented on ED3 compared to EDSE and they feel better balanced. Trebleheads and those loving neutral sound will like these. Bass is tight but quantity is less compared to EDSE. 
  
 My sister and I happen to like opposite sound signatures, she being a treblehead and me being a basshead. She is loving ED3 so much and attributed that to the fact that vocals get represented really well on these. 
  
 These are really well built and look phenomenal. You also get the same juicy cable of EDSE on ED3.
  
 If you need more info then just ask.  Eisen over and out.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@EISENbricher Great pics and sound summary. Thanks! KZ products really are quite nice.


----------



## Wokei

EISENbricher...great pics and impressions


----------



## hqssui

@EISENbricher Do you have KZ-ES Pro? If so, can you please do a quick comparison of ED3 and ES Pro and share your impression.. I read in one of the earlier posts that it has a bright signature as well..


----------



## EISENbricher

hqssui said:


> @EISENbricher
> Do you have KZ-ES Pro? If so, can you please do a quick comparison of ED3 and ES Pro and share your impression.. I read in one of the earlier posts that it has a bright signature as well..



I don't have ES yet... Maybe some other fellow thread member would be able to guide. I am also curious about what sets apart the ED3 and ES.


----------



## Hisoundfi

eisenbricher said:


> I don't have ES yet... Maybe some other fellow thread member would be able to guide. I am also curious about what sets apart the ED3 and ES.


 
 Aside from the Micro Ring, the ED3 is the most balanced KZ IEM. I prefer the ED3 over the Micro ring for fitment reasons.
  
 The ES is pretty special in that it has phenomenal imaging, but the treble on the ES is slightly harsher from what I hear. I have to be honest, the ES has really grown on me, and I enjoy it very much. I gotta make sure to rank it higher when I update my profile.
  
 BTW, its a shame the KZ store is closed. What happened?


----------



## hqssui

hisoundfi said:


> Aside from the Micro Ring, the ED3 is the most balanced KZ IEM. I prefer the ED3 over the Micro ring for fitment reasons.
> 
> The ES is pretty special in that it has phenomenal imaging, but the treble on the ES is slightly harsher from what I hear. I have to be honest, the ES has really grown on me, and I enjoy it very much. I gotta make sure to rank it higher when I update my profile.
> 
> BTW, its a shame the KZ store is closed. What happened?


 
  
 Thanks. How is ED3 and ES 's bass and clarity . Can you please compare them to T1-E?


----------



## Hisoundfi

hqssui said:


> Thanks. How is ED3 and ES 's bass and clarity . Can you please compare them to T1-E?


 I'll check later and get back to you. 

I'll say right now though, the Bass on the T1E is still to this day some of the best bass you will ever hear in an IEM


----------



## Hisoundfi

Okay, so... 

IMHO... 

T1E is the best overall sound, ED3 and ES are a step behind. 

Bass is probably most linear (bust still forward) on the ED3. The ES bass is a touch bouncier to my ears but sounds really good. The T1E bass is the total package, with just the right amount of punch, bounce, speed, texture and rumble.


----------



## hqssui

hisoundfi said:


> Okay, so...
> 
> IMHO...
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks a mil for this.. I was confused  whether I have to buy one of these as they are available in local ebay .  I will save up and wait for Trinity Audio Eng's new Iems..


----------



## Hisoundfi

hqssui said:


> Thanks a mil for this.. I was confused  whether I have to buy one of these as they are available in local ebay .  I will save up and wait for Trinity Audio Eng's new Iems..


I want to thank you as well. 

I haven't listened to my T1E in a long time and pulling them out to compare reminded me how awesome they are. 

Dude, the T1E is a hall of famer that's for sure!


----------



## hqssui

hisoundfi said:


> I want to thank you as well.
> 
> I haven't listened to my T1E in a long time and pulling them out to compare reminded me how awesome they are.
> 
> Dude, the T1E is a hall of famer that's for sure!


 
  
 Yes .. Totally agree with you. T1E is an excellent IEM. One of my favourites in my collection ..


----------



## souvikdas95

Guys, I am like hell of confused on the IEM's that I need. Why I am posting this here is, I have set up a sort of liking towards the KZ EDSE as a result of various posts, comments, threads that have been made and available on various sites online. Infact, I have gone through each and every post over 200+ pages on this thread as well.
  
 Now, I will start with the type of music I prefer in order of preference/ priority of Artists:
  
 1. Evanescence ( Gothic + Alternative Rock ) ( My Fav: "Bring me to Life" from album "Fallen" )
 2. Linkin Park ( Alternative + Nu Rock + Metal ) ( In love with albums: "Hybrid Theory", "Meteora", "Minutes to Midnight" )
 3. Green Day ( Punk + Alternative Rock ) ( Love Most Songs from album "American Idiot" )
 4. Poets of the Fall ( Alternative Rock + Metal ) ( Listen to this when I am generally a bit "High!" or "Anxious" )
 5. Jason Mraz ( Pop Rock + Accoustic ) ( especially album "Yes!" - quite a different genre turn than rest of the albums ) ( Listen when I feel like Meditating - mostly on Holidays )
 6. Fort Minor ( Rap Rock ) ( Listen when I m too "Low!" or in "Depair" )
 7. The Fray ( Pop Rock ) ( Listen when I feel a little lonely )
 8. John Denver ( Folk + Country ) ( Listen occassionally in the end of the Playlist - especially in Lonely Evenings )
 9. Bollywood ( instrumental, tone and rhythm driven ) ( Rarely Listen - For a Spacious, Airy, Open and Comfortable Feeling )
 10. David Guetta ( Pop + Electronic Dance ) ( Rarely Listen - Just for an unlikely Change of Genre )
  
 Sound / Accoustic Needs in order of Priority:
  
 1. Huge Soundstage ( I just love 3D / Surround / Spacious / Airy Environments )
 2. Voice + Instrument Clarity ( Obviously, with Large Soundstage, requires Clarity too )
 3. Bass Centric / Driven ( Niether too Tight Thumping nor too Bloated, Priority of Sub-bass over Mid-bass - sufficient enough for playing "Jason Mraz's Yes!", "Poets of the Fall" and "Evancescence" )
 4. Smooth Treble ( Should not Attack / Crack / Hurt the Ear at Max. Volume ( Safe ) but should make an artificial impact, enough to not ruin the Rhythm like a Smash! but play "Linkin Park" at its best )
 5. Smooth and Clear High-Pitch Vocals ( Must for all Rock / Bollywood Songs )
  
 Now, the saddest part of all: I don't have a good Budget ( < 40$ ) and I have only a select few options of In-Ears:
  
 1. Soundmagic E10S
 2. T-Peos Popular
 3. Xiaomi Piston 2
 4. KZ EDSE
 5. KZ ED8m
 6. Sennheiser CX 300 II
 7. Cowon EM1
  
 So, Please tell me which one would suit my Ears the BEST? For God's sake, don't Rate them on Price! Also, Please don't assume things. Either you must have experienced using these IEMs' or you must be a decent Audiophile!
  
 Just a Heads Up. I have tried Apple Earpods ( Soundstage is OK, Vocals are also pretty clear, No Instrument Clarity, Overall, Below Average ), Samsung Earphones ( Soundstage is OK but overall, Below Average ), and CM Storm Pitch In-Ear ( Sucks! ). I would like an IEM, that can act as an equivalent or better alternate for my "Sennheiser HD 202 II" Over-the-Ear.
  
 Thanks a LOT for reading!!


----------



## Hisoundfi

souvikdas95 said:


> Guys, I am like hell of confused on the IEM's that I need. Why I am posting this here is, I have set up a sort of liking towards the KZ EDSE as a result of various posts, comments, threads that have been made and available on various sites online. Infact, I have gone through each and every post over 200+ pages on this thread as well.
> 
> Now, I will start with the type of music I prefer in order of Artists:
> 
> ...


TTPOD T1E 

BOOM


----------



## Hisoundfi

If you can't get your hands on the T1E, go with the kzedse


----------



## CoiL

> 2. T-Peos Popular
> 3. Xiaomi Piston 2
> 4. KZ EDSE


 
 Out of those and according to Your music/sound preference... I would go for Piston 2. I have had all those three and for this kind of music I would prefer Piston 2 over EDSE. EDSE has better soundstage but bass/kick isn`t just giving any "feeling" to this kind of music and that`s why Piston 2 is littlebit better, IMO.
 Popular is too bassy/boomy (for me) and with smallest soundstage out of those.


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Guys, I am like hell of confused on the IEM's that I need. Why I am posting this here is, I have set up a sort of liking towards the KZ EDSE as a result of various posts, comments, threads that have been made and available on various sites online. Infact, I have gone through each and every post over 200+ pages on this thread as well.
> 
> Now, I will start with the type of music I prefer in order of preference/ priority of Artists:
> 
> ...



I listen to preety much the same playlist and I'd say no single earphone would serve for all... Within $40 you can fit in EDSE, ED8m and Piston. I'd say get all these and have good harem time  ED8 is very smooth sounding, spacious and little dark. Very good for Evanescence as well as melodeth stuff etc. EDSE is kind of all rounder and will serve well enough for most genres. Pistons for satisfying the craving for bass, though I'd say you may opt for KZ R1 as well. These are good counterparts for Pistons and very much able to shake your eardrums. TTPOD T1E os a step above KZ IEMs, but personally I find its highs slightly harsh and fit is a little challenging.

My personal recommendation for a single earphone would be Zero Audio Carbo Tenore. Visit the thread and you'll see why. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/665111/zero-audio-zh-dx200-carbo-tenore-zh-dx210-carbo-basso-carbon-aluminium-iem-information-appreciation-and-impressions-thread/4890#post_11459634


----------



## ilikeiem

souvikdas95 said:


> Now, the saddest part of all: I don't have a good Budget ( < 40$ ) and I have only a select few options of In-Ears:
> 
> 1. Soundmagic E10S
> 2. T-Peos Popular
> ...


 
 Under $40, there are better choices to choose from, not just those 7 iems. Since you ask this question on KZ thread, I would recommend KZ-ED8m (*the blue pair*).


----------



## yangian

Well, I think it's not wise to take $40 as your threshold. If I was you, I may buy a $10 giant first. If you like warm sound, EDSE. Cold sound, 8320.
 Then pay attention to a good deal. The best deal I got before is $50 for kef m200, sony V6 and Philips SHP9500. I did not buy it but massdrop recently sell Havi b3 for $50. However, B3 and m200 need amplifier.


----------



## yangian

yangian said:


> Well, I think it's not wise to take $40 as your threshold. If I was you, I may buy a $10 giant first. If you like warm sound, EDSE. Cold sound, 8320.
> Then pay attention to a good deal. The best deal I got before is $50 for kef m200, sony V6 and Philips SHP9500. I did not buy it but massdrop recently sell Havi b3 for $50. However, B3 and m200 need amplifier.


 


souvikdas95 said:


> Guys, I am like hell of confused on the IEM's that I need. Why I am posting this here is, I have set up a sort of liking towards the KZ EDSE as a result of various posts, comments, threads that have been made and available on various sites online. Infact, I have gone through each and every post over 200+ pages on this thread as well.


 
 Sorry, I did not realize you may not in US. If you are not in US, you can pay attention to massdrop.com. Usually the deal will last for a few days. You have enough time to ask for.
 Recommend this: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/superlux-hd668b-headphones


----------



## Koolpep

souvikdas95 said:


> Guys, I am like hell of confused on the IEM's that I need. Why I am posting this here is, I have set up a sort of liking towards the KZ EDSE as a result of various posts, comments, threads that have been made and available on various sites online. Infact, I have gone through each and every post over 200+ pages on this thread as well.
> 
> Now, I will start with the type of music I prefer in order of preference/ priority of Artists:
> 
> ...


 

 Of the above I have the KZ EDSE, Piston 2 and Sennheisers. I had the TTPOD T1E and didn't like them. 
  
 For a budget of <$40 I would recommend the ZERO AUDIO ZH-DX210-CB, they can be had for $35 or less including shipping. Second I would recommend the KZ EDSE
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## ayao

I only just realised that the DT3 resembles the Fischer Audio Consonance. Not only its housing design, but even joker's sound impressions are similar to what I'm hearing from many of my DT3's (have 10 pairs)


----------



## Wokei

ayao said:


> I only just realised that the DT3 resembles the Fischer Audio Consonance. Not only its housing design, but even joker's sound impressions are similar to what I'm hearing from many of my DT3's (have 10 pairs)




Why 10 pairs of DT3 ?


----------



## ilikeiem

His first priority requirement is *huge soundstage*. Does EDSE, DT3 has huge soundstage?  I guess both fail to meet his first priority requirement.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ANV is a very spacious KZ iem. So is the Micro Ring, but they're a little more difficult to get ahold of.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> His first priority requirement is *huge soundstage*. Does EDSE, DT3 has huge soundstage?  I guess both fail to meet his first priority requirement.


 
 Dude has loads of budget, let him get EDSE as it's one of the best KZ. Who knows he might end up liking it.
 If anybody walks in this thread with >$10 budget I'm gonna make him buy variety of KZ. All sound different!


----------



## souvikdas95

@Hisoundfi - I did search for T1E. Found it. Had a talk with the Dealer too. Sadly, can't proceed with it, just because it would take more than a month's time.
  
 LINK: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brand-3-5mm-In-Ear-dj-Earphone-for-Iphone-IPOD-Samsung-HTC-Xiaomi-earbuds-bass-noise/2027883210.html
  
 According to the dealer, it would take minimum a week for them to get it back in the stock + China Post says 15-37 days!!
  
 Anyways, the link is right there. If anyone is interested, go for it before it's too late. Selling at around INR 1800!!!
  
 @EISENbricher & ilikeiem - I can't decide which one to order first. EDSE or ED8m. I can't order both of them together just right now as otherwise, I won't be able to hold myself from listening to both simultaneously  and not giving enough time for their individual burn-in and testing. A month later, I can get another. Also, I believe, I am a little tilted towards darker and heavy sounds. My gut tells me, I should go for ED8m first.
  
 @Koolpep - I will check them out after having done with the KZ IEMs.
  
 Thank you all for the Reviews


----------



## souvikdas95

@Hisoundfi - I did find out T1E on AliExpress at 29.85$ ( Roughly INR 1860 ) but still worth it. But, sadly according to the dealer, they currently don't have them in stock and will get them in about 1 week. So, they are kind of pre-selling stuffs there. Worst of all, If I choose the China Air Mail Delivery ( FREE ), it's going to cost me around 1 more month! So, what I am trying to say is, I do like IEMs' but that doesn't mean I have the patience to wait for more than 1 entire month to get a pair of them. Hoping to get them later. Have suggested HifiNage ( India ) to start selling that item too.
  
 @EISENbricher & ilikeiem - I have ordered the KZ EDSE for INR 548 from Snapdeal ( Seller - HifiNage ). Now, I was thinking of buying the TX-400 Comply too along with them. As for ED8m, I am planning to buy it a month later. I want to burn-in and push the KZ EDSE to its limits before I start evaluating the ED8m.
  
 @Koolpep - I appreciate your suggestion but sadly, I have already ordered the KZ EDSE. I will get the ZA's after trying KZ ED8m and T1E.
  
 Thank you all for the reviews


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> @Hisoundfi - I did find out T1E on AliExpress at 29.85$ ( Roughly INR 1860 ) but still worth it. But, sadly according to the dealer, they currently don't have them in stock and will get them in about 1 week. So, they are kind of pre-selling stuffs there. Worst of all, If I choose the China Air Mail Delivery ( FREE ), it's going to cost me around 1 more month! So, what I am trying to say is, I do like IEMs' but that doesn't mean I have the patience to wait for more than 1 entire month to get a pair of them. Hoping to get them later. Have suggested HifiNage ( India ) to start selling that item too.
> 
> @EISENbricher & ilikeiem - I have ordered the KZ EDSE for INR 548 from Snapdeal ( Seller - HifiNage ). Now, I was thinking of buying the TX-400 Comply too along with them. As for ED8m, I am planning to buy it a month later. I want to burn-in and push the KZ EDSE to its limits before I start evaluating the ED8m.
> 
> ...


 
 Do buy complys from *headphonezoneonline *on eBay India. Last time I had ordered 1 pair of S400 and I received 3!!


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> ANV is a very spacious KZ iem. So is the Micro Ring, but they're a little more difficult to get ahold of.


 

 I`ll be getting my ANV soon so I will post about it and some impressions against EDSE, Piston 2, R35.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> I`ll be getting my ANV soon so I will post about it and some impressions against EDSE, Piston 2, R35.




Treble on the ANV can be a bit edgy...the filter "mod" + Sony Hybrids I posted a while back helps smooth things out significantly. Hope you like them.


----------



## souvikdas95

Has anyone tested the KZ IEMs on Laptops or PCs? Even more specifically, on Razer Surround ( PRo ) Software?


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I`ll be getting my ANV soon so I will post about it and some impressions against EDSE, Piston 2, R35.
> ...


 
 Thanks, will lookup that mod when I get them. First thing though will be removing those gk logo back ends and probably replacing them with different coloured wood


----------



## ilikeiem

souvikdas95 said:


> Has anyone tested the KZ IEMs on Laptops or PCs? Even more specifically, on Razer Surround ( PRo ) Software?


 
  
 Sometimes I plug my IEM straight into my Macbook Pro retina.


----------



## B9Scrambler

souvikdas95 said:


> Has anyone tested the KZ IEMs on Laptops or PCs? Even more specifically, on Razer Surround ( PRo ) Software?




I play them thorugh my Asus g73 with the Plantronics Rig amp. Works pretty well. I have the Creative 3D software to simulate surround sound. Haven't tried it with the KZs though.


----------



## ayao

wokei said:


> Why 10 pairs of DT3 ?


 
 I really liked my first pair, and after my friends said they really liked my DT3 as well, I decided to buy a bunch as gifts.
 The thing is, my original DT3 was actually faulty. It had a LOT of driver flex, but most importantly it didn't have the treble bump I hear in most KZ IEMs. It almost sounds like an ASG-2 but with a little less mids and a bad fit (had to be very shallow because of the driver flex).
  
 When I received the 10 DT3's, I opened 3 of them to check if build/sound quality was consistent. It did turn out to be consistent, in the way that the 3 of them all had no driver flex but had that noticeable bump in the 6-8khz region. I gave one of the three to a friend, who still liked it because of the bass quantity. I gave a 4th one (unopened) to my sister, who discovered that the left side had no sound =P


----------



## Wokei

ayao said:


> I really liked my first pair, and after my friends said they really liked my DT3 as well, I decided to buy a bunch as gifts.
> The thing is, my original DT3 was actually faulty. It had a LOT of driver flex, but most importantly it didn't have the treble bump I hear in most KZ IEMs. It almost sounds like an ASG-2 but with a little less mids and a bad fit (had to be very shallow because of the driver flex).
> 
> When I received the 10 DT3's, I opened 3 of them to check if build/sound quality was consistent. It did turn out to be consistent, in the way that the 3 of them all had no driver flex but had that noticeable bump in the 6-8khz region. I gave one of the three to a friend, who still liked it because of the bass quantity. I gave a 4th one (unopened) to my sister, who discovered that the left side had no sound =P




Cheers mate ....you still got 6 unopened then ...good luck with them ...btw never got around getting them ..maybe one day :rolleyes:


----------



## ilikeiem

souvikdas95 said:


> @EISENbricher & ilikeiem - I have ordered the KZ EDSE for INR 548 from Snapdeal ( Seller - HifiNage ). Now, I was thinking of buying the TX-400 Comply too along with them. *As for ED8m, I am planning to buy it a month later*. I want to burn-in and push the KZ EDSE to its limits before I start evaluating the ED8m.


 
 When you buy ED8m, please choose *blue pair*.   *red pair*  has different sound.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Dude has loads of budget, let him get EDSE as it's one of the best KZ. Who knows he might end up liking it.
> If anybody walks in this thread with >$10 budget I'm gonna make him buy variety of KZ. All sound different!


 
 It's hard to tell that EDSE is the best KZ. Some people may prefer R35, ED3 Extreme Edition, DT3, ANV, ... blah blah


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> It's hard to tell that EDSE is the best KZ. Some people may prefer R35, ED3 Extreme Edition, DT3, ANV, ... blah blah




Yup, but without a doubt the EDse is one of the best. Only a select few have disliked the sound, at least from what I've gathered.


----------



## souvikdas95

Yeah thanks for again telling me that... I noticed it already and I guess, it's because of a little better bass quality compared to the red ones ( as per earliar posts by those who have already used 'em )


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> It's hard to tell that EDSE is the best KZ. Some people may prefer R35, ED3 Extreme Edition, DT3, ANV, ... blah blah


 
 You missed 'One of the' part, my friend, I had mentioned that in my post. Even I do prefer R1 over it, at least for now.
  
 Quote:


b9scrambler said:


> Yup, but without a doubt the EDse is one of the best. Only a select few have disliked the sound, at least from what I've gathered.


 
 Amen.
  


souvikdas95 said:


> Yeah thanks for again telling me that... I noticed it already and I guess, it's because of a little better bass quality compared to the red ones ( as per earliar posts by those who have already used 'em )


 
 Mixed opinions about that. I've also seen someone preferring Red over Blue because allegedly blue had too much bass. I really wanted to personally compare but China Post lost my Blue somewhere and after communication with seller he shipped a new blue pair but it's going to take at least a month to arrive... 
  
 But what holds true for both is, that it has more quantity of bass than EDSE and wider soundstage, for sure.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Oh yeah...forgot to update on my experiences with the CM9 dispute. I did eventually get a full refund however it took lots of back and forth plus two videos for them to admit the issue was not a "contact problem". For those that don't know, the right channel was DOA, making the iems useless. I even soldered on a new cable after the dispute was over to see if they could be salvaged, but nope, dead driver. Purchased from the Official KZ store through AliExpress.
  
 After they finally admitted the product was flawed, what got me was their statement that many customers have approached them with the same issue. This is why they were asking me to drop the dispute (it seems the dispute pages on AliExpress are having issues, as I cannot access them ATM to copy in their exact response). My retort was that maybe this was an indication of a flawed product or production process, and not something the customer should be penalized for. Yes, they are extremely inexpensive and basically disposable depending on who you talk with, but customers should expect to be sent a functional product.
  
 If their store ever comes back, I won't be buying from them again. Disappointing, especially after buying every KZ product I own from them ('cept the R3).


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler.....glad you got your refund ....just to relate me experience .....never trust them at all ...never drop dispute ....

Bought something for my niece from Aliexpress ....jogging pant ...basically solid colour with some pattern at the knee ....but what they seller sent was just solid color with no pattern at all ..contacted seller and he refused to entertain my email at all .....escalate to Aliexpress Dispute ..even worst .....used the same reply from the seller ...and decided to favour the seller ...so me sent them a nasty email telling them to do their job and stop being lazy ....furnish them with pic of their listing and the goods received ...they replied with the same reply from seller that its the same good .....and asked me to furnish more evidence ....got so pissed with them ...told the Aliexpress Dispute Team that not only are they not doing their job , lazy and most of all they are BLIND ........advised them to actually use their eyes to read my response and actually look at the picture that are sent with my response ...and finally they decided to refund 50% without returning or get 100% refund but will need to return the good ..obviously chose the 1st option....

Word of advise ...never drop the dispute and judging by how the Aliexpress Dispute Team handle cases like this ...never slip up :rolleyes:


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> @B9Scrambler.....glad you got your refund ....just to relate me experience .....never trust them at all ...never drop dispute ....


 

 That sucks man  At least you got something back. I'll never drop a dispute without getting at least something out of it. In each case for which I've opened a dispute, I've contacted the seller first to try and rectify the issue. If that fails, which it has every time, I open the dispute asking for a full refund. Then I negotiate for what I actually want (which in most cases has just been a working product).


----------



## souvikdas95

Has anyone used the Soundmagic E10S model? If so, please tell me about the quality difference b/w KZ EDSE and them. I want to know because it's being praised a lot as a public IEM but from point of view of an audiophile, there's not much of a discussion on it, compared to KZ IEMs. If anyone could draw a bit of a detailed comparision b/w them, could have been really helpful.


----------



## bduncan5

I had the exact same problem with my cm9 which arrived yesterday, dead right channel. have'nt heard back from them yet. I ordered 7 iem's all where fine except  the cm9.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bduncan5 said:


> I had the exact same problem with my cm9 which arrived yesterday, dead right channel. have'nt heard back from them yet. I ordered 7 iem's all where fine except  the cm9.




That's frustrating. From what I could gather via left channel only listening, they are quite good. I really want to try out a working pair....blargh.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> That's frustrating. From what I could gather via left channel only listening, they are quite good. I really want to try out a working pair....blargh.




Y'all need to get a working pair of CM9 .....so sorry to hear ....DOA on arrival .......me like them very much vocally


----------



## Hisoundfi

Kzedse ftw!!! 

I give them to people who have WAY more expensive stuff and they are always impressed before I even tell them the price! 

Beat bang for your buck IEM in history!


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> Kzedse ftw!!!
> 
> I give them to people who have WAY more expensive stuff and they are always impressed before I even tell them the price!
> 
> Beat bang for your buck IEM in history!


 
 Same here... EDSE was quite liked by all of my friends. None of them are audiophile though and don't own anything which could be called decent. 
  
 I guess this is because they have nice quality 'mainstream' sound, which is slightly v-shaped. And of course the looks and BQ. So far 3 of them already have ordered EDSE.
  
 Btw an Indian store is offering EDSE at marginally higher price (still under $10) but with one year warranty.


----------



## CoiL

> I guess this is because they have nice quality 'mainstream' sound, which is slightly v-shaped.


 
 I wonder what You are using for listening to make such claim? I would call EDSE rather neutral and even liltlebit analytical sounding than mainstream & V-shaped. R35 and Piston 2 would be latter ones.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> I wonder what You are using for listening to make such claim? I would call EDSE rather neutral and even liltlebit analytical sounding than mainstream & V-shaped. R35 and Piston 2 would be latter ones.


 
 Dunno about R35 but Piston is very much V-shaped. EDSE is also V-shaped but no to that extent. It is 'slightly' V-shaped, as I already have mentioned. 
  
 Calling EDSE analytic or neutral is a wrong statement. There are KZs like ANV or ED3 or Micro Ring which are much nearer to neutral sound. And Havi B3 is super neutral, I have it and EDSE is easily V-shaped when I compare.


----------



## CoiL

*What source gear (DAC) are You using for listening and comparing?*


> Calling EDSE analytic or neutral is a wrong statement.


 
 Read again...


> I would call EDSE rather neutral and even littlebit analytical sounding than mainstream & V-shaped.


 
  
 I agree about Havi B3 Pro1, it`s very neutral. For me though it was too "cold" sounding and bass/midbass was littlebit lacking to give musical enjoyment.


----------



## ilikeiem

*I also wonder what source you guys are using? *
  
 My worst source is Macbook Pro Retina and I find EDSE is lack of bass. Treble is too harsh.


----------



## CoiL

My sources are:
  
 1. 44/16 FLAC -> ASIO -> Aune T1 USB DAC/Amp (ELNA SilmicII capacitors + CMC ceramic OFC gold-plated pins socket) -> Siemens E88CC (GØ 1≠ 6A, grey plate, o-ring, gold pins)
  
 2. iBasso DX50 @ mid gain (Sound Unlocked 1.3.3 FW @ FLAC-only/ iir off/ cpu default) + Panasonic FC capacitor upgrade.
  
 Both are very balanced and neutral sounding, great imaging and detail retrieval with huge soundstage capabilities (not only width but also depth towards front).
  
  
 Some ppl here recommend and hype some products without aknowledging that source (dac) and amp/no amp also makes difference, sometimes quite big one... while temselves having not so neutral/balanced etc. reference point.
  
 Just saying...


----------



## mebaali

My EDSE experience was very poor till I tried out Comply foam T-400 tips on them. I felt the bass was pretty anemic while treble being too harsh with the stock tips. But once I changed my tips, the sound became more neutral than it was earlier (from reverse L to near flat). Since then listening experience has been wonderful with these for me.


----------



## CoiL

I tried also two different foams tips with EDSE and it was noticeably better... BUT... since my job nature and preference is to take them off/on quite often while using, then foams are no-go for me. Still, even with foam tips I find Piston2 and R35 more musical and enjoyable + comfort/fit is better... in my subjective opinion.


----------



## mebaali

I forgot to add a point, I had (still having) a totally different experience with KZ ES (which many users here felt of having harsh treble with weak bass). (To my ears) OOTB with stock tips, ES sounded more lively with better bass (whereas, with EDSE I had more mid forward sounding experience) than EDSE. Over the last few months of usage, I have grown quite fond of both ES as well as (tips changed) EDSE, though.

@Coil - My experience with Pistons 2.1 using comply foam tips was kinda mixed bag. Pistons definitely had more bass than EDSE or ES (and even possibly more fun sounding on the first listen?). One major problem I felt was the clarity, which to me was not as good as EDSE or ES (could be bass which sounded somewhat boomy, eating up other frequencies?). I have not used R35 before, so can't comment on that.


----------



## souvikdas95

@mebaali - Is Soundmagic ES18 even worth a contest with KZ? I have listened to them and I found them worse than even the ordinary samsung earphones that come, packed with the samsung smartphones...


----------



## mebaali

souvikdas95 said:


> @mebaali - Is Soundmagic ES18 even worth a contest with KZ? I have listened to them and I found them worse than even the ordinary samsung earphones that come, packed with the samsung smartphones...



 

To me, KZ IEMs (ES and EDSE that I own) are far superior in most aspects (build quality, clarity, soundstage, treble, and pricing etc...) to ES18. But at the same time, ES18 has its own benefits for me (felt ES18 to have more Bass than EDSE and ES, and are pretty easy to drive with minimal source power requirement). It was my go to IEM for sleep time listening (worn it almost every night for the last 3 years). With over 200 hours of burn-in period, my ES18 used to sound (not using them anymore) pretty good for my taste/preference of music genres/purpose. YMMV!


----------



## EISENbricher

And there are some people tampering, fiddling with their stock gear thinking that it would make those sound super realistic and neutral.
  
 Just saying... 
  


coil said:


> I tried also two different foams tips with EDSE and it was noticeably better... BUT... since my job nature and preference is to take them off/on quite often while using, then foams are no-go for me. Still, even with foam tips I find Piston2 and R35 more musical and enjoyable + comfort/fit is better... in my subjective opinion.


 
 V-shaped sound is a 'mainstream' sound as most people happen to enjoy it. Fellow head-fier @Netforce has once explained this in detail before. Since you're not enjoying Havi or EDSE and enjoy Pistons all I can figure out that you enjoy more V-Shaped sound signature.


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> @Coil - My experience with Pistons 2.1 using comply foam tips was kinda mixed bag. Pistons definitely had more bass than EDSE or ES (and even possibly more fun sounding on the first listen?). One major problem I felt was the clarity, which to me was not as good as EDSE or ES (could be bass which sounded somewhat boomy, eating up other frequencies?). I have not used R35 before, so can't comment on that.


 
 With foam tips Piston2 might be boomy and lack clarity. I also didn`t like foams with Piston2, quite similar result as You describe. I use smallest thin silicone tips with large opening that came with original package. It lets me insert them deep into ear channel and secure comfort fit. With those tips Piston2 is certainly not boomy and bass does not eat up other frequencies, imho. But they do have more bass quantity than EDSE for sure.


----------



## CoiL

Is it hard to tell everybody what DAC (and additional settings if it has) are You using? I`m not arguing with You. You just keep using demagougery to avoid answering and read out of ppl comments only what You want. Heavily biased one sided opinion? Whatever makes Your ego tickle 
 Just answer to my one question and I won`t talk with You anymore.


----------



## Shadowsora

Well, EDSE ain't much v-shaped, for me at least, there are some peaks but it's not bass and treble that's for sure, though they had a little more bass than i thought before i try them.
 Whatever though, opinions are subjective.


----------



## souvikdas95

My KZ IEM will be shipped within 3 days! TX-400 Ear Tips also arriving in next 5 days! Planning to get my Ear Cleaned of Wax from nearby Medical Clinic... Costs hardly INR 90 ( USD 1.5 ) !!!


----------



## CoiL

I am... till my ANV arrives. Should be here next weekend. Then I will take EDSE, Piston2, T-Peos Popular, ANV, R35 and try to make short review/impressions about differences (if work duties doesn`t get me).


----------



## EISENbricher

Lot love Wokei senpai  
I'm finding some love again with ED8. You should buy one, its cool iem. 

Curious ppl go read history XD (strictly PM reply if have one)


----------



## Ruben123

Source matters very very very less. If impedance is not high and if the volume could go to desired levels, it should be fine. I've heard edse and find it v shaped.
It isn't that bad. Only bass and upper treble levels are bumped. Just my thoughts (!!).

QUESTION
I love my havis but find them too expensive for on the street, train etc
Looking for a kz (or other brand) iem with good isolation, balanced/neutral sound and that @$7-8. Cheap.
Needs to be a bit near havi sound, but acceptable for that price of course! I expect not too much. Eisen recommended me ed3, wokei recommended pl50 but that's outside of my reach!

Please help this poor student. Ed3 way to go??


----------



## ilikeiem

ruben123 said:


> *Source matters very very very less*. If impedance is not high and if the volume could go to desired levels, it should be fine. I've heard edse and find it v shaped.
> It isn't that bad. Only bass and upper treble levels are bumped. Just my thoughts (!!).


 
 I think source really DOES MATTER.   Why should I spend ~ $900 on Astell&Kern if it does not matter? LOL ...


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> I think source really DOES MATTER.   Why should I spend ~ $900 on Astell&Kern if it does not matter? LOL ...




Well, on top of performance, that beast is just pretty as #uc#!


----------



## Ruben123

Well that's your vision  I've never found a difference in sources and there's few reasons sources should sound different but hey this is not sound science so let's keep it with this!

Ontopic again!


----------



## Wokei




----------



## Hisoundfi

Me likey


----------



## EISENbricher

Cool! Unusual looking tips. Which are those??


----------



## Wokei

Hisoundfi...Sweeeeeeet


----------



## Hisoundfi

eisenbricher said:


> Cool! Unusual looking tips. Which are those??


Those are my all time favorite tips that fit my ears like custom IEMs the bore must be the same circumference as my ear canals, seriously. 

They are Lunashops red/gray medium size tips. I've never really felt the need for either these, or large Sony hybrids. Both can be purchased for dirt cheap on Lunashops. 

Wokei
If it wasn't for you and Charliemotta I would have dismissed the KZ brand. It ended up being one of the awesomest experiences I've had with this hobby. 

I even sent a pair to twister6 and he was impressed as well! That dude knows good sound quality!


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> Those are my all time favorite tips that fit my ears like custom IEMs the bore must be the same circumference as my ear canals, seriously.
> 
> They are Lunashops red/gray medium size tips. I've never really felt the need for either these, or large Sony hybrids. Both can be purchased for dirt cheap on Lunashops.
> 
> ...



Oho I might order some  
Have many eartips at disposal but who doesn't want to experiment, especially at this price, haha.

Wow, which one did you send to twister6? He's one of my most trusted guys around here.


----------



## Hisoundfi

KZEDSE


----------



## twister6

KZ EDSE sounds SICK!!!  Tried it yesterday with AK120ii - blew my socks off (well, actually I didn't have socks on, but if I would - they would be right across the room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Really appreciate my brother-from-another-mother @Hisoundfi hooking me up with these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  For under $10 (or something like $8, right?) these have an amazing build quality, top notch chord, and excellent sound.  A bit of low end enhancement, but it's tuned very tastefully.   Giant killer all the way!


----------



## Wokei

Yeah baby...they are Sweeeeeeet


----------



## EISENbricher

My second EDSE pair that I received along with ED3...  must say they look really sweet. Enlarge for awesomeness 
  
  

  
  
  
 Randomly found someone quoting @Wokei on the EDSE product page : http://www.luckyears.com/earphones/knowledge-zenith-edse/
 “Feckin amazing considering the price…best cable me ever seen for an iem…” – Wokei on head-fi
  
  
 He sure is famous : D


----------



## joe

Come on, guys. Let's be civil.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Well...second attempt at a CM9 purchase. Hopefully this one works!


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Well...second attempt at a CM9 purchase. Hopefully this one works!


 
 Good luck. Which shop did you buy it from? 
 There is one shop called 'High quality electronic products' with nice reputation and low prices on KZ but for my country they only provide EMS service, which is out of question.


----------



## ilikeiem

Here is KZ-ED9.  If you are a big fan of KZ, don't miss this.
  

  
 This should be the best KZ IEM for dance music.   Frequency Repsonse: 7-46200Hz


----------



## CoiL

Are they very boomy/bassy? And what about mids and highs? Their design and size look very appealing.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Here is KZ-ED9.  If you are a big fan of KZ, don't miss this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They look phenomenal!! 
Any deals?

EDIT: uhh... They are priced above $40 everywhere, including taobao. Need to wait more.


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> Here is KZ-ED9.  If you are a big fan of KZ, don't miss this.
> 
> 
> 
> This should be the best KZ IEM for dance music.   Frequency Repsonse: 7-46200Hz


 
 Looks gorgeous!! How about SQ compare to EDSE?


----------



## CoiL

He noted it`s best for dance music and noted out Freq response... I assume it must be with elevated bass and highs and thus noticeably more V-shaped than EDSE but lets wait for his answer.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Good luck. Which shop did you buy it from?
> There is one shop called 'High quality electronic products' with nice reputation and low prices on KZ but for my country they only provide EMS service, which is out of question.


 

 I'm trying this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-CM9-acme-fever-professional-in-ear-headphones-HIFI-fever-standard-heavy-bass-headphones/2044936547.html
  
 They have decent feedback. I also ordered this at the time same. Looks interesting, but I doubt it's any good: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/original-SUR-S530-HD-Super-Bass-EarPhones-In-ear-Headphones-Earbuds-Headphone-Headset-Earphones-with-Microphone/32311497003.html


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> Here is KZ-ED9.  If you are a big fan of KZ, don't miss this.
> 
> 
> 
> This should be the best KZ IEM for dance music.   Frequency Repsonse: 7-46200Hz


 
  
 How long have you had ED9's? Can you post a pic?


----------



## chavez




----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> He noted it`s best for dance music and noted out Freq response... I assume it must be with elevated bass and highs and thus noticeably more V-shaped than EDSE but lets wait for his answer.


 
  
 You were right. ED9 has v-shape sound.  Super strong bass, dive deep, no distortion and there is no harsh treble too.  I lend Fidue A71, VJJB V1, KZ-ED9, DN1000  to my friend.  He kept KZ-ED9 and return those 3 IEMs back to me. He said he likes ED9 very much.
  
 At $50, I think it's not expensive. If you like dance music, you will like ED9 for sure.


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> You were right. ED9 has v-shape sound.  Super strong bass, dive deep, no distortion and there is no harsh treble too.  I lend Fidue A71, VJJB V1, KZ-ED9, DN1000  to my friend.  He kept KZ-ED9 and return those 3 IEMs back to me. He said he likes ED9 very much.
> 
> At $50, I think it's not expensive. If you like dance music, you will like ED9 for sure.


 

 I found from their webpage that it's good at symphony. Is that true?


----------



## ilikeiem

yangian said:


> I found from their webpage that it's good at symphony. Is that true?


 
 To my ears, it's also true.  Coz ED9 has a very good sound resolution.  Many people also prefer v-shape sound with classical music.


----------



## Squalo

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-BUS-POWER-SP580M-mobile-phone-earphones-sports-heavy-bass-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets/615477_1475222645.html
  
 woot woot
  
 Anyone jumping on it?


----------



## yangian

squalo said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-BUS-POWER-SP580M-mobile-phone-earphones-sports-heavy-bass-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets/615477_1475222645.html
> 
> woot woot
> 
> Anyone jumping on it?


 

 The product detail:
impedance              :16 ohm
 frequency response:20Hz~22kHZ
 sensitivity(S.P.L)     :115bB+-3bB
cord longth             :1.2 meters
 plug                        :3.5mm
  
 The genuine ED9?


----------



## yangian

yangian said:


> The product detail:
> impedance              :16 ohm
> frequency response:20Hz~22kHZ
> sensitivity(S.P.L)     :115bB+-3bB
> ...


 
 Model Number:
 ED9
 Place of Origin:
 Guangdong, China (Mainland)
 Brand:
 tuna


----------



## Squalo

yangian said:


> The product detail:
> impedance              :16 ohm
> frequency response:20Hz~22kHZ
> sensitivity(S.P.L)     :115bB+-3bB
> ...


 
 I was under the impression that "tuna" is just a rebrand. That the store sells KZ product under "tuna"-brand. They have the other models. 
  
 Anyway I make no guarantees whatsoever. But I seriously doubt there be fakes of it.


----------



## EISENbricher

squalo said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-BUS-POWER-SP580M-mobile-phone-earphones-sports-heavy-bass-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets/615477_1475222645.html
> 
> woot woot
> 
> Anyone jumping on it?



Ordered from here  

Thanks for the link, man. No worries Tuna and KZ are same.


----------



## joemama

squalo said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-BUS-POWER-SP580M-mobile-phone-earphones-sports-heavy-bass-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets/615477_1475222645.html
> 
> woot woot
> 
> Anyone jumping on it?


 

 Jumped. These look really interesting. Hope they aren't a disappointment like the the DT5 Pole-Tone.


----------



## Koolpep

squalo said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-BUS-POWER-SP580M-mobile-phone-earphones-sports-heavy-bass-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets/615477_1475222645.html
> 
> woot woot
> 
> Anyone jumping on it?




I jumped in and ordered 2....one is for a friend if they sound good.

Let's see...the wait begins....


----------



## ilikeiem

Photo and price tag make me believe that it shouldn't be fake KZ-ED9 but....
  
 - ED9 was released on March 2015,  how come TUNA store has 2 feedback left for ED9 on Oct 2014. 
 - Look at the URL, it's BUS Power SP580M earphone.
 - Look at the specification, 20 - 22khz. This is a specification of SP580M earphone. In case you don't know what BUS Power IEM look like, take a look at AKARI earphone. It's one of the low cost brand that has good sound quality.
 - New KZ official shop set the price of ED9 very high. ($96 USD),  50% discount on promotional period now.  
  
 BTW, At $14, this look more like real KZ... LOL  
 whether it's $14 or $40, if it's not fake or defect, it's worth buying anyway.


----------



## Shadowsora

Ok, today i received r35 and Ivery IS-1(not kz), r35 is a situational iem for me, the bass is punchy and certainly is there, for edm tracks it's great but in some songs it sounded bad, i have spent only about an hour with it, no burn in and no back filter removal mod so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
 I will give you guys an overall analytical impression, after at least 40h burn in and after i try the back sticker mod(i'll make sure to not destroy the stickers to make it reversible.
  
 About Ivery IS-1 my initial impression once i heard the music flowing to my ears was --> "Is this a joke?" they sounded so bad that i was about to throw them to the bin immediately, BUT i took a deep breath and changed my eq on v4a and the genre of songs, so guess what another situational iem for me, they lack bass and the treble is harsh BUT the midrange is pretty good so i may prefer them for vocal oriented songs.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Photo and price tag make me believe that it shouldn't be fake KZ-ED9 but....
> 
> - ED9 was released on March 2015,  how come TUNA store has 2 feedback left for ED9 on Oct 2014.
> - Look at the URL, it's BUS Power SP580M earphone.
> ...



Yeah I was thinking the same. But since this shop looks okay I went ahead. Well, there is Ali dispute process if anything goes wrong. It's not best but I'm ready to take risk for this awesome looking KZ. 



shadowsora said:


> Ok, today i received r35 and Ivery IS-1(not kz), r35 is a situational iem for me, the bass is punchy and certainly is there, for edm tracks it's great but in some songs it sounded bad, i have spent only about an hour with it, no burn in and no back filter removal mod so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
> I will give you guys an overall analytical impression, after at least 40h burn in and after i try the back sticker mod(i'll make sure to not destroy the stickers to make it reversible.
> 
> About Ivery IS-1 my initial impression once i heard the music flowing to my ears was --> "Is this a joke?" they sounded so bad that i was about to throw them to the bin immediately, BUT i took a deep breath and changed my eq on v4a and the genre of songs, so guess what another situational iem for me, they lack bass and the treble is harsh BUT the midrange is pretty good so i may prefer them for vocal oriented songs.



Thanks for impressions. Pls also share after the burn in and mods


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> r35 is a situational iem for me, the bass is punchy and certainly is there, for edm tracks it's great but in some songs it sounded bad, i have spent only about an hour with it, no burn in and no back filter removal mod so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
> I will give you guys an overall analytical impression, after at least 40h burn in and after i try the back sticker mod(i'll make sure to not destroy the stickers to make it reversible.


 
 Keep us updated. I haven`t found r35 bass bad in any song yet. What exactly was bad? Maybe I need some very deep bass song? Only complaint from my part to r35 was littlebit harsh highs at the beginning but it smoothed little after some playtime. Still, with some few songs it is fraction too much. But r35 reacts pretty good to tip changing. Smaller bore tips help with highs.
 At first I was using Piston2 tips but now prefer stock smallest black ones that has smaller bore.


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> Keep us updated. I haven`t found r35 bass bad in any song yet. What exactly was bad? Maybe I need some very deep bass song? Only complaint from my part to r35 was littlebit harsh highs at the beginning but it smoothed little after some playtime. Still, with some few songs it is fraction too much. But r35 reacts pretty good to tip changing. Smaller bore tips help with highs.
> At first I was using Piston2 tips but now prefer stock smallest black ones that has smaller bore.


 
 Actually i wrote my impression wrong, needed a coma there, it sounded bad in certain songs but not in the bass aspect, the bass of r35 is awesome in every song i listened, though on the playlist i heard there were some songs in which the r35 sounded bad, especially on treble it was a bit harsh as you said. What i want to tell is that r35 is not a "universal" iem, but it specializes on fast bass-y songs and mostly on edm.(Haven't heard daft punk with it yet, but looking forward after the burn in)
  
 On another subject, what was the difference after you removed the back sticker?Any effect on highs?


----------



## CoiL

It might be placebo to some but for me after removing stickers r35 sounds tad more open/airy and bass reaches lower. One of my fellow home forum members also noticed same changes. Also he mentioned same thing about highs as I and You. After some playtime it gets better. Certainly try other tips if highs are still too harsh.


----------



## nadeshiko

hi guys, i wanna ask something
 i wanna buy KZ EDSE, but its hard to search in my country.
 i found KZ ED2 series, and its looks similiar model with EDSE
  
 can someone give me revies about compare this two product? (EDSE vs ED2)
 and i hope someone can review about ED2 vs Sony MH1 too..
  
 thanks before
 sory for my bad english


----------



## Shadowsora

nadeshiko said:


> hi guys, i wanna ask something
> i wanna buy KZ EDSE, but its hard to search in my country.
> i found KZ ED2 series, and its looks similiar model with EDSE
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, i don't have ED2 but i have EDSE and mh1, comparing them to mh1, mh1 has a punchier style of bass fast and responsive also the highs are a bit better, EDSE is a bit inferior in terms of sq but i personally use them over mh1 because of the cable and the music i listen too, you can get a very good result with EDSE on every genre of music, also to my ears EDSE is more smooth overall.
 So now take on account that ED2 is a bit bassier than EDSE(haven't heard them myself but other members said so).


----------



## B9Scrambler

"Dear friend, KZ - CM9 because has been sold out, no stock
 We will send you KZ - ED3, two products same price, similar functions"
  
 RAWR! The CM9 continues to elude me. From what I've read I will certainly like the ED3 though, so there is one positive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If anyone knows where to get a CM9 at around the magic 10 USD mark, with free shipping to Canada, please feel free to drop a link.


----------



## ilikeiem

b9scrambler said:


> "Dear friend, KZ - CM9 because has been sold out, no stock
> We will send you KZ - ED3, two products same price, similar functions"
> 
> RAWR! The CM9 continues to elude me. From what I've read I will certainly like the ED3 though, so there is one positive
> ...


 
 How about this?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-CM9-acme-fever-professional-in-ear-headphones-HIFI-fever-standard-heavy-bass-headphones/2044936547.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> How about this?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-CM9-acme-fever-professional-in-ear-headphones-HIFI-fever-standard-heavy-bass-headphones/2044936547.html


 

 Thanks, but that's the seller I tried from. They're out of stock


----------



## ilikeiem

b9scrambler said:


> Thanks, but that's the seller I tried from. They're out of stock


 
 How about this?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-cm9-grade-fever-Ear-Headphones-DIY-earphone-bass-earphone-heavy-metal-s-top-moving-coil/1380840_2046059478.html


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> yangian said:
> 
> 
> > I found from their webpage that it's good at symphony. Is that true?
> ...


 
  
 You also said the same thing about the ED8. And to my ears they have fair resolution, muddy bass and plastic sounding treble. I see the hype train has started! Has anyone else, other than ilikeiem tried the ED9?


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> You also said the same thing about the ED8. And to my ears they have fair resolution, muddy bass and plastic sounding treble. I see the hype train has started! Has anyone else, other than ilikeiem tried the ED9?


 
*What source gear (DAC) are You using for listening and comparing?*


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> How about this?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-cm9-grade-fever-Ear-Headphones-DIY-earphone-bass-earphone-heavy-metal-s-top-moving-coil/1380840_2046059478.html




Thank you. I guess I can give that store a go.


----------



## souvikdas95

I know most of you will not like this but if you are not interested in buying a separate source, you can actually boost your computer/laptop's sound card to a great extent simply by using some softwares and their configs. I am using Razer Surround Pro with Kraken ( for Over-the-ear ) and Hammerhead ( In-the-ear ) configuration for my respective (different) headsets. Plus, I am using VLC media player for playing the sounds by changing the audio codec and resampling properties in it. Serves good to me. I don't own much expensive earphones. So, I did not have the need to buy a high quality / sophisticated sources / amplifiers.


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> I know most of you will not like this but if you are not interested in buying a separate source, you can actually boost your computer/laptop's sound card to a great extent simply by using some softwares and their configs. I am using Razer Surround Pro with Kraken ( for Over-the-ear ) and Hammerhead ( In-the-ear ) configuration for my respective (different) headsets. Plus, I am using VLC media player for playing the sounds by changing the audio codec and resampling properties in it. Serves good to me. I don't own much expensive earphones. So, I did not have the need to buy a high quality / sophisticated sources / amplifiers.



You should try raw sound too... Try Foobar2000 with wasapi plugin and from foobar preferences select wasapi (event) as output. Let me know if you try this. 

Oh btw for super budget conscious people imo ELE DAC D01 with Topping NX1 is a very good deal. 

Anyway, any kind of sound is awesome if you enjoy it


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> You also said the same thing about the ED8. And to my ears they have fair resolution, muddy bass and plastic sounding treble. I see the hype train has started! Has anyone else, other than ilikeiem tried the ED9?



I'm amazeballs over the looks, and since it's still at fairly low cost I pulled trigger, haha. I don't believe at all the specifications listed on product description page, but if it's KZ who is making this it's not going to be too disappointing... I hope. 

Waiting for the ED9....At least a month to go!


----------



## B9Scrambler

I pulled the plug on the ED9 as well. This is getting to be an "expensive" week, but in a good way


----------



## ilikeiem

I used to buy DIY IE800 before. It looks exactly as geniune IE800 but sound quality doesn't even come close.  I hope TUNA-ED9 is not a DIY ED9.


----------



## EISENbricher

Seller of Tuna ED9 says that this is original KZ.


----------



## BigGearHunter

As a KZ veteran, I can assure you guys that Tuna and KZ are the same. It seems KZ's model is to initially overprice their models and wait about a month and often less until they slash the prices mercilessly and they often reach the "below $10" mark. I wouldn't worry about Tuna ED9 being a fake.


----------



## EISENbricher

biggearhunter said:


> As a KZ veteran, I can assure you guys that Tuna and KZ are the same. It seems KZ's model is to initially overprice their models and wait about a month and often less until they slash the prices mercilessly and they often reach the "below $10" mark. I wouldn't worry about Tuna ED9 being a fake.


That's definitely more reassuring than seller's reply.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> That's definitely more reassuring than seller's reply.


 
 This is really good news.


----------



## souvikdas95

eisenbricher said:


> You should try raw sound too... Try Foobar2000 with wasapi plugin and from foobar preferences select wasapi (event) as output. Let me know if you try this.
> 
> Oh btw for super budget conscious people imo ELE DAC D01 with Topping NX1 is a very good deal.
> 
> Anyway, any kind of sound is awesome if you enjoy it


 

 Tried it... Have to say... It quite boosts the output but not enough... It surely helped bring a little more clarity but bass and treble power is still not affected... When I used the Razer Surround Pro with the configs I mentioned previously, it helped me bring more dynamic highs and lows, bass and treble into the same music without ruining the clarity... rather it's much more v-shaped with sufficiently enough instrument separation and soundstage. It surely compromises certain frequencies but in a way, helps the otherwise blind hardware...


----------



## Shadowsora

Ok i am back, i aborted the burn-in cause i am impatient and either way not a big fan of it, got 5h burn in though.
 So let's get started, changing eartips is a must for r35, i used a version of sony hybrid which comes with mh1 and my main source was my smartphone(Xiaomi Redmi 1s) with v4a(super audio quality profile etc etc), i listened to a variety of genres.
  
 Sound quality is very good, bass is responsive and fast, mids ain't forward but not recessed by much, the only downside are the high frequencies where sometimes depending the song and the volume they can sound harsh but it's not something extreme.
 Isolation is superb(with the stickers on, didn't try to remove them yet) i tested them on a walk and didn't hear anything except my music(my volume was at 65-70%) and it was a noisy walk, i think it's my top IEM on this aspect.
 Cable, ok these guys know how to choose/make cables, the cable is superb when compared to EDSE, r35 cable can be much more comfortable for over ear use but it's not as tangle free as the cable of EDSE.
 I don't think i have anything else to say, just that i recommend these especially for edm listeners.


----------



## ilikeiem

Take a look at real photo of KZ-ED9 here:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/headset-Kz-ed9-earphones-ear-bass-popular-music-mobile-phone-headphones-hifi-metal-earplug-new-arrival/32313034858.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> Take a look at real photo of KZ-ED9 here:
> 
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/headset-Kz-ed9-earphones-ear-bass-popular-music-mobile-phone-headphones-hifi-metal-earplug-new-arrival/32313034858.html


 

 I really like the nozzle design. Looks pretty unique with the flared tip and recessed mesh. Cool beans brah.


----------



## EISENbricher

Thank you ilikeiem for updates.


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> I really like the nozzle design. Looks pretty unique with the flared tip and recessed mesh. Cool beans brah.


 
 + the octagonal shells and the 2 vertical back vents (oh yeah, skull'ye as seen from back)......


----------



## Wokei

KZ ED9 looking very sexay .....


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> KZ ED9 looking very sexay .....




agreed! mine apparently started the shipping process today  woohoo! I really want the cm9 though... 0_0


----------



## EISENbricher

Mine also got shipped!! 
I also like two slits at its back. Nice design  

I'll do a comprehensive photo shoot of these yeah.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> agreed! mine apparently started the shipping process today  woohoo! I really want the cm9 though... 0_0




Been reading your post ...seem like a bad run lately with your purchases thru Ali ......sucks :rolleyes:


----------



## altrunox

what happened with kz official store from aliexpress?
 no products for sale


----------



## EISENbricher

altrunox said:


> what happened with kz official store from aliexpress?
> no products for sale


 
 Tried communicating with the seller many times but he didn't respond. Safe to assume that it's been closed.
 Sucks because it had lowest prices for KZ. 
  
 Still there are some stores around which sell for just a little bit higher price, still keeping KZ below $10.


----------



## altrunox

eisenbricher said:


> Tried communicating with the seller many times but he didn't respond. Safe to assume that it's been closed.
> Sucks because it had lowest prices for KZ.
> 
> Still there are some stores around which sell for just a little bit higher price, still keeping KZ below $10.


 
 strange, they sold lots of products there, are the price was lower too...
 well I'll take a look on the tuna you guys are talking about
 thanks


----------



## Wokei

altrunox said:


> strange, they sold lots of products there, are the price was lower too...
> well I'll take a look on the tuna you guys are talking about
> thanks




Those guys at Tuna are great ...all of me KZ bought from them before KZ official store existed ....Wokei approved ..,,cheers


----------



## souvikdas95

@EISENbricher - Can you tell me where you bought your ZA Tenore from? India?


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> @EISENbricher - Can you tell me where you bought your ZA Tenore from? India?



Not from India. I bought it from Akibashipping on eBay.com, he ships from Japan.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Been reading your post ...seem like a bad run lately with your purchases thru Ali ......sucks :rolleyes:




Ain't that the truth, lol. Were it not so easy to enter disputes, I would be much less nonchalant about it. *shrug*


----------



## archish

are these official or fake stores? I think there are many more. Which store is reliable and recommended?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1380688


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> Ok i am back, i aborted the burn-in cause i am impatient and either way not a big fan of it, got 5h burn in though.
> So let's get started, changing eartips is a must for r35, i used a version of sony hybrid which comes with mh1 and my main source was my smartphone(Xiaomi Redmi 1s) with v4a(super audio quality profile etc etc), i listened to a variety of genres.
> 
> Sound quality is very good, bass is responsive and fast, mids ain't forward but not recessed by much, the only downside are the high frequencies where sometimes depending the song and the volume they can sound harsh but it's not something extreme.
> ...


 
 Thanks for impressions! Though, our source gear is quite different, I confirm and agree with Your impressions.


----------



## Roderick

Has anyone compared lps or other kz headphones directly to v-moda headphones? I't appears that the drivers look the same. I talked about kz drivers here and later I stumbled on an article on innerfidelity where Tyll took apart V-Moda Crossfade LP. It's the same driver! Or looks the same anyway. It's a common driver which can be bought seperately on aliexpress here.
  
 So instead of just looking a like is lps exactly the same headphone as crossfade lp?


----------



## souvikdas95

Just received my KZ EDSE =D
 So, here's my ( Before Burn-In and with Default Ear Tips ) Review:
 They just ROCK!! Soundstage as usual, is same as average IEMs but with Good Control i.e. It can time its width perfectly. eg. When it needs to give a bleak pause to vocals or a sparkling field to sudden highs. Treble, Thumps and Clarity in Mids and Highs are just awesome!! I mean, the sort of vividness it shows in terms of these, is just Perfect! Niether too Smooth nor too Sparkling/Harsh. Lows may be a little muddy because of Sub-woofer sized Sub-bass!! It has its own Pros and Cons. So, this brings us to its Bass. Sub-bass quantity is a little more compared to Mid-bass. Overall, Bass Quantity is average ( enough for me ) but quality is a little flat. It lacks a sort of vividness that you would otherwise find in an average Over-The-Ear headset. At times, may distract the rhythm but only if you can concentrate for hours on them. But again, depends on what music you listen to. For me, I would say, "Linking Park" may sound exceptionally good while "Jason Mraz" may sound a little distracting. But come on, I am comparing them to over-the-ear headsets!! Meaning that, for an on-the-go IEM, that may turn out to be much pleasant rather than distracting. Have to say, I am totally flattered by these little yet powerful beasts!! By the ways, for the first time ever, I find the Stock quality better than Razer Surround Pro amplified Sound!!! Would be posting my next review on these after Burn-in and with Comply Tx-400 Ear Tips i.e. in about 7 days )


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Just received my KZ EDSE =D
> So, here's my ( Before Burn-In and with Default Ear Tips ) Review:
> They just ROCK!! Soundstage as usual, is same as average IEMs but with Good Control i.e. It can time its width perfectly. eg. When it needs to give a bleak pause to vocals or a sparkling field to sudden highs. Treble, Thumps and Clarity in Mids and Highs are just awesome!! I mean, the sort of vividness it shows in terms of these, is just Perfect! Niether too Smooth nor too Sparkling/Harsh. Lows may be a little muddy because of Sub-woofer sized Sub-bass!! It has its own Pros and Cons. So, this brings us to its Bass. Sub-bass quantity is a little more compared to Mid-bass. Overall, Bass Quantity is average ( enough for me ) but quality is a little flat. It lacks a sort of vividness that you would otherwise find in an average Over-The-Ear headset. At times, may distract the rhythm but only if you can concentrate for hours on them. But again, depends on what music you listen to. For me, I would say, "Linking Park" may sound exceptionally good while "Jason Mraz" may sound a little distracting. But come on, I am comparing them to over-the-ear headsets!! Meaning that, for an on-the-go IEM, that may turn out to be much pleasant rather than distracting. Have to say, I am totally flattered by these little yet powerful beasts!! By the ways, for the first time ever, I find the Stock quality better than Razer Surround Pro amplified Sound!!! Would be posting my next review on these after Burn-in and with Comply Tx-400 Ear Tips i.e. in about 7 days )



Cool! From my own experience they sound even better after burn in. 
Oh btw if they sound better to you without using any software enhancements then that means they are closer to your sound preference.


----------



## souvikdas95

Can any one check for a little disturbance at frequencies 800-900 hz ( feels like 2 different streams of frequencies ) as well particularly a flat range fault b/w 150-180 hz ( Try http://www.audiocheck.net/Audio/audiocheck.net_frequencychecklow.mp3 ) in KZ EDSE? i don't know if it's problem in the source sound or these in-ears.


----------



## ilikeiem

souvikdas95 said:


> Can any one check for a little disturbance at frequencies 800-900 hz ( feels like 2 different streams of frequencies ) as well particularly a flat range fault b/w 150-180 hz ( Try http://www.audiocheck.net/Audio/audiocheck.net_frequencychecklow.mp3 ) in KZ EDSE? i don't know if it's problem in the source sound or these in-ears.


 
 There is nothing wrong with the file.  It's computer generated tone.


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Can any one check for a little disturbance at frequencies 800-900 hz ( feels like 2 different streams of frequencies ) as well particularly a flat range fault b/w 150-180 hz ( Try http://www.audiocheck.net/Audio/audiocheck.net_frequencychecklow.mp3 ) in KZ EDSE? i don't know if it's problem in the source sound or these in-ears.


 
 You may want to try this as well.
 http://plasticity.szynalski.com/tone-generator.htm
  
 It's natural to notice slight imbalance as it's not only attributed to the IEM alone but even your ear, the cavity shape could be slightly different causing harmonics at random intervals. Only professional audio testing gear can judge true imbalance.


----------



## souvikdas95

eisenbricher said:


> You may want to try this as well.
> http://plasticity.szynalski.com/tone-generator.htm
> 
> It's natural to notice slight imbalance as it's not only attributed to the IEM alone but even your ear, the cavity shape could be slightly different causing harmonics at random intervals. Only professional audio testing gear can judge true imbalance.


 

 Also, is it natural to feel sudden electric shocks ( literally ) at the outer surface of ear at high volume, which just touches the surface of these in-ear cans, while rockingly jerking your head in air for fun  ?


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Also, is it natural to feel sudden electric shocks ( literally ) at the outer surface of ear at high volume, which just touches the surface of these in-ear cans, while rockingly jerking your head in air for fun  ?


lol no.... Are you plugging im your earphone in Laptop out? In that case make sure power line earthing is working.


----------



## archish

ordered EDSE, I hope these buds can take some abuse and rough handling


----------



## EISENbricher

archish said:


> ordered EDSE, I hope these buds can take some abuse and rough handling


 
 They sure can.


----------



## souvikdas95

eisenbricher said:


> They sure can.


 






  
*56 cores LC-OFC wire can stand more than 30 kg weight ,more durable .the paint gold plug more high-ending ,more durable *


----------



## EISENbricher

I just wish someday KZ would release a BA IEM. I really want a decent BA IEM for price of KZ


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> I just wish someday KZ would release a BA IEM. I really want a decent BA IEM for price of KZ




I said the same thing a while back and ppl told me I was crazy, lol. I totally agree though. A KZ BA would be awesome.


----------



## archish

Well Altone200 were quite cheap for a triple driver iem initially atleast. I consider them as the KZ of BA


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> I said the same thing a while back and ppl told me I was crazy, lol. I totally agree though. A KZ BA would be awesome.



I absolutely support this idea! It would be awesome. 



archish said:


> Well Altone200 were quite cheap for a triple driver iem initially atleast. I consider them as the KZ of BA



For how much? I think I joined Head-fi after that.


----------



## archish

Launch price was 125$, retailed for 185$ similar to dunu 1000 and has been discontinued now.


----------



## Hisoundfi

archish said:


> ordered EDSE, I hope these buds can take some abuse and rough handling


If they can't, you'll be out $8 or so. Worth the risk if you ask me lol


----------



## EISENbricher

My KZ ED8m Blue which I had ordered in December of 2014, immediately after its release, failed to reach to me.
  
 The tracking number indicated that the earphone had reached to Beijing Airport on 15th Feb. Eventually tracking number did expire. Meanwhile I pursued a dispute on AliExpress, and the seller asked me to close it in his favor reassuring help in case the earphone never reaches to me (This was done in Feb, so that time I was positive that it'll reach).
  
 Happy to inform that now he shipped a new ED8m to me and the tracking# is showing details. Seller 'Yue He' seemed kind and provided nice support. This was bought through Official GK store on Ali. 
  
 Just wanted to share my experience.
  
 I'm also rocking my Red ED8m which I had ordered after this one but received in Jan.


----------



## souvikdas95

Ok... So here's the deal. Either I buy Comply TX-400 Eartips and use with my EDSE. Or buy ED8m... What do i do?


----------



## Wokei

EISENbricher.....what ...nice avatar ....carry on


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Ok... So here's the deal. Either I buy Comply TX-400 Eartips and use with my EDSE. Or buy ED8m... What do i do?



ED8m all the way!! They are very good for EDM, have a specious and dark sound signature and are keepers. Don't miss them  

You may get the complys later too! 




wokei said:


> EISENbricher.....what ...nice avatar ....carry on



Yay... Me extremely happy.


----------



## souvikdas95

eisenbricher said:


> ED8m all the way!! They are very good for EDM, have a specious and dark sound signature and are keepers. Don't miss them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you sure? or should I get the Complys first and then wait for ED9 to arrive in India?


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Are you sure? or should I get the Complys first and then wait for ED9 to arrive in India?



It's always your decision... 

I don't think ED9 will come to India. I guess hifinage just did an experiment with KZ launching EDSE and ED8


----------



## EISENbricher

Does anyone know/tried this model? KZ veterans?? 
  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-X6-Super-Bass-Headphones-Professional-Monitoring-Headphones-HIFI-Headsets-DJ-Earphones-Universal-3-5MM/32315369571.html


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Does anyone know/tried this model? KZ veterans??
> 
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-X6-Super-Bass-Headphones-Professional-Monitoring-Headphones-HIFI-Headsets-DJ-Earphones-Universal-3-5MM/32315369571.html




Imho ....the link you posted are NOT KZ model ....they are actually this brand called Bobo Rock 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Professional-monitor-hifi-subwoofer-earphones-mobile-phone-earphones-Bass-headphones-Rock-headphones/1930879513.html

They can found much cheaper iirc ....but what do I know ....:rolleyes:

Here another link for Bobo ...much cheaper than me first link above 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/BOBO-Brand-01-In-Ear-Headphone-fone-de-ouvido-with-sports-hook-HIFI-Earphones-noise-isolating/1937148169.html


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Does anyone know/tried this model? KZ veterans??
> 
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-X6-Super-Bass-Headphones-Professional-Monitoring-Headphones-HIFI-Headsets-DJ-Earphones-Universal-3-5MM/32315369571.html


 
 They look really good and seem to suit my personal "design/fit" needs. But I`m still waiting for my ANV to arrive. Not going to pull trigger before I receive them.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> They look really good and seem to suit my personal "design/fit" needs. But I`m still waiting for my ANV to arrive. Not going to pull trigger before I receive them.


 
 Yupp, they look cool. Oh I want to try ANV as well but tuner before that. I hear that tuner/r35 is good for EDM.
  
 PS: Don't worry about 'personal' word haha. We are cool.


----------



## souvikdas95

Just can't resist... KZ EDSE just keeps getting better... Bass already appears sick-awesome and it's not been even 12 hours of Burn-in! EDSE does appear to lack a sort of mid-texture - clear but bleak. Atleast 36 more hours to go before 95% Burn-in and atleast 10x longer Burn-in before 100%.
 You can use any equalizer setting on them and see the change, out of the water - SQ highly Customizable!


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Yupp, they look cool. Oh I want to try ANV as well but tuner before that. I hear that tuner/r35 is good for EDM.
> 
> PS: Don't worry about 'personal' word haha. We are cool.




Imho...R35 might not be quite suitable for EDM....bass compared to EDSE is less body and thump...tight yes but vs EDSE bass impact is stronger....also they may be bright if judging by your post .....you might wanna go for ANV...my 2 cent


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Just can't resist... KZ EDSE just keeps getting better... Bass already appears sick-awesome and it's not been even 12 hours of Burn-in! Atleast 36 more hours to go before 95% Burn-in and atleast 10x longer Burn-in before 100%.
> 
> You can use any equalizer setting on them and see the change, out of the water - SQ highly Customizable!



Haha that's EDSE for you... twister6 in his latest review of Xiaomi Piston 3 has ranked EDSE higher than it. Also according to him Piston 3 > Piston 2. 

Enjoy your EDSE. For me burn in really improved it. 



wokei said:


> Imho...R35 might not be quite suitable for EDM....bass compared to EDSE is less body and thump...tight yes but vs EDSE bass impact is stronger....also they may be bright if judging by your post .....you might wanna go for ANV...my 2 cent



Hmmm..... I wonder. I have one slot remaining in my April quota. Will decide soon!


----------



## souvikdas95

<Removed>


----------



## CoiL

wokei said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Yupp, they look cool. Oh I want to try ANV as well but tuner before that. I hear that tuner/r35 is good for EDM.
> ...


 
 I agree on being bright for some (depends on tips being used) but I do not wholly agree with rest of Your comment on r35 vs. edse.
  
 And here`s another member impressions if You missed it, he thinks r35 is great for EDM:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/3165#post_11472831
  
 Still waiting for ANV to arrive... I hope it isn`t lost, getting worried.


----------



## souvikdas95

<Removed>


----------



## souvikdas95

Hey Fellas,
 I have got 2 good news. 1st being that I have ordered for both KZ ED8M and Comply TX-400 M Tips ( Aparently, Snapdeal has given me a compensation of Rs. 500 SD Cash for delaying in an old Refund Process  ). 2nd being that I have asked for a replacement for my KZ EDSE ( no-mic model ) with KZ EDSE ( with-mic model ).
 Also, I had a few questions. How long should I do the burn-in for my KZ ED8M for improvement of Treble and what kind of music should I play for the burn-in? EDM or Rock or Soft Classics or Bollywood? Also, I want to know if TX-400 will suit my KZ ED8M or not? In case it doesn't, do I really require to buy another set of Complys ( considering the already heavy bass and lack of treble ) ?


----------



## Ruben123

If burn in really exists is debatable, just listen the music through it you want and dont worry about it. If it exists, it will happen.


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Hey Fellas,
> I have got 2 good news. 1st being that I have ordered for both KZ ED8M and Comply TX-400 M Tips ( Aparently, Snapdeal has given me a compensation of Rs. 500 SD Cash for delaying in an old Refund Process  ). 2nd being that I have asked for a replacement for my KZ EDSE ( no-mic model ) with KZ EDSE ( with-mic model ).
> Also, I had a few questions. How long should I do the burn-in for my KZ ED8M for improvement of Treble and what kind of music should I play for the burn-in? EDM or Rock or Soft Classics or Bollywood? Also, I want to know if TX-400 will suit my KZ ED8M or not? In case it doesn't, do I really require to buy another set of Complys ( considering the already heavy bass and lack of treble ) ?


 
 Congrats!! That's sweet news. 
  
 I am a believer in burn in and I'll admit it took long enough for my ED8m to shine. I'll say 50hrs at least. Just put your playlist on shuffle and play at medium-high volume. That'll be enough. TX400 fits ED8m btw.


----------



## ilikeiem

souvikdas95 said:


> Hey Fellas,
> I have got 2 good news. 1st being that I have ordered for both KZ ED8M and Comply TX-400 M Tips ( Aparently, Snapdeal has given me a compensation of Rs. 500 SD Cash for delaying in an old Refund Process  ). 2nd being that I have asked for a replacement for my KZ EDSE ( no-mic model ) with KZ EDSE ( with-mic model ).
> Also, I had a few questions. How long should I do the burn-in for my KZ ED8M for improvement of Treble and what kind of music should I play for the burn-in? EDM or Rock or Soft Classics or Bollywood? *Also, I want to know if TX-400 will suit my KZ ED8M or not?* In case it doesn't, do I really require to buy another set of Complys ( considering the already heavy bass and lack of treble ) ?


 
 TX-400? I don't think so. Spiral/Whirlwind tips will suit your KZ ED8m.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> TX-400? I don't think so. Spiral/Whirlwind tips will suit your KZ ED8m.


 
 +1
 Complys are better at isolation but they do attenuate high freq range. Makes already dark sounding ED8m even darker. IMO complys will be good for EDSE.
 I have 3 complys lying around but I don't like them now because they sacrifice on details.... YMMV of course.


----------



## bhazard

Anyone go for the ED9 yet?


----------



## B9Scrambler

bhazard said:


> Anyone go for the ED9 yet?




Yuppers...in the mail. Can't wait to check em out


----------



## EISENbricher

bhazard said:


> Anyone go for the ED9 yet?


Ordered first here.... They are shipped.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> bhazard said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone go for the ED9 yet?
> ...


 
  
 Let's hope better SQ than the ED8! The design looks much better on the outside.


----------



## bduncan5

Well its been about a week since my order of 7 KZ iem's arrived so I'll post a few initial thoughts. My only disappointment was the cm9 had a dead right channel so I can't evaluate it but I have another one ordered. I really like the ANV so I'd like some more of that sound signature. The big surprise for me was the ED1. Its a very smooth and coherent  mid centric iem perfect for vocals. The vocals are pushed forward a bit.  KZ makes a lot of bass canon type earphones but this one isn't one of them. I'm not a big fan of that mid type sound but I really like The ED1. My favorite KZ is the ED8 so its no surprise I also think the DT5 is special, its kind of like the little brother to the ED8 in that its got good clarity in the mids and treble along with incredible bass. The soundstage is not as  good  as the ED8 but still very good and the DT5 has a peak in the 6000-7000 hertz area that gives it an open quality. Sometimes I need to EQ that peak down but it depends on the recording. The  DT3 is good too. Kind of a tube like variation of the ED1' creamy smooth sound with a bit more bass than the ED1. I haven't listened to it much but liked it right away, it has a very distinctive sound that I haven't heard before. The EDSE is nice also but everyone knows that around here. Haven't listened to it much yet. The KZ-GR  that I received had a black noozle with no hole and a red one with the hole.  The black GR is  bass heavy but not like the newer ED8 and DT5, its very damped and punchy. Nice coherence nothing sticks out but for me lacks the spacious soundstage of the newer models. With the red noozle the GR is just way to bright for my tastes but reducing the size of the hole one can find a happy medium between bass and treble. I used tape over the hole and then made a smaller hole with a pin prick to tailor the sound to my liking. A nice thing about the GR is that it includes a 98% pure silver cable. Can't comment too much on the ED3 yet but I was surprised by the amount of bass it put out along with the emphasis on the treble. Need to listen to it some more. Quite a nice variation in sound signatures for my investment.


----------



## EISENbricher

bduncan5 said:


> Well its been about a week since my order of 7 KZ iem's arrived so I'll post a few initial thoughts. My only disappointment was the cm9 had a dead right channel so I can't evaluate it but I have another one ordered. I really like the ANV so I'd like some more of that sound signature. The big surprise for me was the ED1. Its a very smooth and coherent  mid centric iem perfect for vocals. The vocals are pushed forward a bit.  KZ makes a lot of bass canon type earphones but this one isn't one of them. I'm not a big fan of that mid type sound but I really like The ED1. My favorite KZ is the ED8 so its no surprise I also think the DT5 is special, its kind of like the little brother to the ED8 in that its got good clarity in the mids and treble along with incredible bass. The soundstage is not as  good  as the ED8 but still very good and the DT5 has a peak in the 6000-7000 hertz area that gives it an open quality. Sometimes I need to EQ that peak down but it depends on the recording. The  DT3 is good too. Kind of a tube like variation of the ED1' creamy smooth sound with a bit more bass than the ED1. I haven't listened to it much but liked it right away, it has a very distinctive sound that I haven't heard before. The EDSE is nice also but everyone knows that around here. Haven't listened to it much yet. The KZ-GR  that I received had a black noozle with no hole and a red one with the hole.  The black GR is  bass heavy but not like the newer ED8 and DT5, its very damped and punchy. Nice coherence nothing sticks out but for me lacks the spacious soundstage of the newer models. With the red noozle the GR is just way to bright for my tastes but reducing the size of the hole one can find a happy medium between bass and treble. I used tape over the hole and then made a smaller hole with a pin prick to tailor the sound to my liking. A nice thing about the GR is that it includes a 98% pure silver cable. Can't comment too much on the ED3 yet but I was surprised by the amount of bass it put out along with the emphasis on the treble. Need to listen to it some more. Quite a nice variation in sound signatures for my investment.


 
 Wow 7 IEMs that's good : ) 
  
 Looks like every CM9 manufactured has one dead channel, I've seen in this thread at least two recent purchases on CM9 reported the same problem.
  
 I've seen no one posting thoughts about ED1 here since I've joined and even before that I rarely see it. So it's nice to know some info on ED1. 

 Enjoy your purchases : )


----------



## ilikeiem

bduncan5 said:


> Well its been about a week since my order of 7 KZ iem's arrived so I'll post a few initial thoughts. My only disappointment was the cm9 had a dead right channel so I can't evaluate it but I have another one ordered. I really like the ANV so I'd like some more of that sound signature. The big surprise for me was the ED1. Its a very smooth and coherent  mid centric iem perfect for vocals. The vocals are pushed forward a bit.  KZ makes a lot of bass canon type earphones but this one isn't one of them. I'm not a big fan of that mid type sound but I really like The ED1. My favorite KZ is the ED8 so its no surprise I also think the DT5 is special, its kind of like the little brother to the ED8 in that its got good clarity in the mids and treble along with incredible bass. The soundstage is not as  good  as the ED8 but still very good and the DT5 has a peak in the 6000-7000 hertz area that gives it an open quality. Sometimes I need to EQ that peak down but it depends on the recording. The  DT3 is good too. Kind of a tube like variation of the ED1' creamy smooth sound with a bit more bass than the ED1. I haven't listened to it much but liked it right away, it has a very distinctive sound that I haven't heard before. The EDSE is nice also but everyone knows that around here. Haven't listened to it much yet. The KZ-GR  that I received had a black noozle with no hole and a red one with the hole.  The black GR is  bass heavy but not like the newer ED8 and DT5, its very damped and punchy. Nice coherence nothing sticks out but for me lacks the spacious soundstage of the newer models. With the red noozle the GR is just way to bright for my tastes but reducing the size of the hole one can find a happy medium between bass and treble. I used tape over the hole and then made a smaller hole with a pin prick to tailor the sound to my liking. A nice thing about the GR is that it includes a 98% pure silver cable. Can't comment too much on the ED3 yet but I was surprised by the amount of bass it put out along with the emphasis on the treble. Need to listen to it some more. Quite a nice variation in sound signatures for my investment.


 
 +1    in depth review would be very appreciated.


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ love.


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler.....is that the original packaging for Micro Ring.....do tell...don't be a tease..pretty please


----------



## CoiL

Wokei, it`s a holographical 3D image burned into glass with laser. No packaging. It`s more like KZ trophy! ;D


----------



## Wokei

coil said:


> Wokei, it`s a holographical 3D image burned into glass with laser. No packaging. It`s more like KZ trophy! ;D




Thanks man ..that would make a cool paper weight ...me likey


----------



## souvikdas95

Just received my TX-400 Complys... At first, when I listened using it, it was just like as many critics had said and concluded - It does drown certain frequencies. But then I used to listen at 75% volume. I increased the volume to 100%. I was blown off!! The super-low latency clarity, the heavy and loudspeaker-sized bass, the superbly controlled treble, and the widened soundstage, the near to perfect 3D imaging... It's so sweet that I almost had a panic attack out of amusement... After about 24 hours of burn-in, and little bit of equalizer fixing, KZ EDSE becomes near to undefeatable compared to some IEMs and Over-the-Ear Headsets which are worth far more than $100. Now, everytime I start listening to these, I feel like a wholy new experience, like being taken to another new and perfectly accoustic world of music...
 Only thing, that makes it a bit lacky when compared to these high-end IEMs, would be their ability to boost any sound thrown at them ( any source, any bitrate ). KZ EDSE is very source demanding IEM and also requires a good bitrate ( sound mixing at or below 128kbps is likely to be a bit noisy.... around 256kbps will sound good... 320 kbps and above, will sound perfect with superb mixing and imaging ). The better the source, the better it gets.
 ED8m will arive in 1-2 days.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Thanks man ..that would make a cool paper weight ...me likey




Coil is correct. An awesome homage to my favorite KZ iem, lol. So glad I have a gf that actively supports my hobby, and apparently encourages it (twas an early bday gift).


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Just received my TX-400 Complys... At first, when I listened using it, it was just like as many critics had said and concluded - It does drown certain frequencies. But then I used to listen at 75% volume. I increased the volume to 100%. I was blown off!! The super-low latency clarity, the heavy and loudspeaker-sized bass, the superbly controlled treble, and the widened soundstage, the near to perfect 3D imaging... It's so sweet that I almost had a panic attack out of amusement... After about 24 hours of burn-in, and little bit of equalizer fixing, KZ EDSE becomes near to undefeatable compared to some IEMs and Over-the-Ear Headsets which are worth far more than $100. Now, everytime I start listening to these, I feel like a wholy new experience, like being taken to another new and perfectly accoustic world of music...
> Only thing, that makes it a bit lacky when compared to these high-end IEMs, would be their ability to boost any sound thrown at them ( any source, any bitrate ). KZ EDSE is very source demanding IEM and also requires a good bitrate ( sound mixing at or below 128kbps is likely to be a bit noisy.... around 256kbps will sound good... 320 kbps and above, will sound perfect with superb mixing and imaging ). The better the source, the better it gets.
> 
> ED8m will arive in 1-2 days.



KZ EDSE is awesome, no doubt regarding that. But definitely there are multiple options below $100, even under $50 which are a notch above EDSE.
Enjoy the sound!


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Haha that's EDSE for you... *twister6 in his latest review of Xiaomi Piston 3 has ranked EDSE higher than it*. Also according to him Piston 3 > Piston 2.
> 
> Enjoy your EDSE. For me burn in really improved it.
> Hmmm..... I wonder. I have one slot remaining in my April quota. Will decide soon!


 
 I also like ESDE. Is EDSE really better than Xiaomi Piston 3?


----------



## CoiL

Guys, don`t forget it`s all subjective, depends on gear being used, hearing, taste etc. ...just making conclusions based on one review is littlebit silly imho (I`ve fallen to that before and was disappointed). Best way to judge something is to listen with Your own ears. Btw, I`m probably getting P3 also.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Guys, don`t forget it`s all subjective, depends on gear being used, hearing, taste etc. ...just making conclusions based on one review is littlebit silly imho (I`ve fallen to that before and was disappointed). Best way to judge something is to listen with Your own ears. Btw, I`m probably getting P3 also.


 
  
 I have both P3 and EDSE. I plan to buy Swarovski version of P3 soon. 
 Here is my EDSE on my latest swarovski xirius rose iphone case.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I also like ESDE. Is EDSE really better than Xiaomi Piston 3?



Idk... Don't have P3 to compare. But if you read the P3 review by twister he has compared it with EDSE and from his opinion I could figure out that he liked EDSE more than P3.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Idk... Don't have P3 to compare. But if you read the P3 review by twister he has compared it with EDSE and from his opinion I could figure out that he liked EDSE more than P3.


 
 I think I have good enough DAP / DAC / Notebook to drive both EDSE & P3. I can't find any aspect of EDSE that is better than P3 so I wonder. Hope there is nothing wrong with my ears.


----------



## CoiL

Nothing wrong with that... like I said, it`s all subjective


----------



## souvikdas95

eisenbricher said:


> KZ EDSE is awesome, no doubt regarding that. But definitely there are multiple options below $100, even under $50 which are a notch above EDSE.
> Enjoy the sound!


 

 True... as I said... it just depends on how easily an IEM gets hold of the sound being played. EDSE sure is good for many genres but, optimization in terms of adapting itself to the music being played... that feeling doesn't come when listening to EDSE.
 Also, I feel that the vocal position and imaging in mid could be better... it just feels a little more forward than it should be...


----------



## EISENbricher

Agreed, it's all subjective to each one's own test.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> ilikeiem said:
> 
> 
> > I also like ESDE. Is EDSE really better than Xiaomi Piston 3?
> ...


 
  
 You think so?  This is what he wrote:
  
_- Piston 3 vs KZ EDSE: KZ has a stronger mid-bass punch where the bass hump is a little more dominant and mids pushed a little more back. Upper mids/treble in KZ is brighter and a little more detailed, though a bit harsher in comparison to P3. P3 soundstage is a little wider/deeper._
  
I guess it's open to interpretation and what kind of SQ is preferred.


----------



## CoiL

> _P3 soundstage is a little wider/deeper._


 
 ...and I`m getting P3 after reading this for sure. Soundstage was main this I liked about EDSE and if P3 is better in that + better design (weight, shape, size, cable) - I`m sold.


----------



## Ruben123

Tuna X1 on Tuna official flagship store $10: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tuna-X1-Original-Professional-bass-headset-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-earphone-Super-Clear-HIFI/826768_32248667599.html
  
 Same as KZ official store??
  
 They also have Tuna X6 sports edition: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tuna-S6-sports-headphones-mobile-phone-earphones-with-microphone-HIFI-noise-cancelling-bass-headsets-music-stereo/826768_32312973685.html


----------



## CoiL

Any impressions about Tuna-S6 ?


----------



## Ruben123

Not by me. Dont even know if it's a KZ or just an OEM which theyve called Tuna. As they dont quite follow the stylish design which KZ did...


----------



## ilikeiem

ruben123 said:


> Tuna X1 on Tuna official flagship store $10: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tuna-X1-Original-Professional-bass-headset-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-earphone-Super-Clear-HIFI/826768_32248667599.html
> 
> Same as KZ official store??
> 
> *They also have Tuna X6 sports edition: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tuna-S6-sports-headphones-mobile-phone-earphones-with-microphone-HIFI-noise-cancelling-bass-headsets-music-stereo/826768_32312973685.html*


 
  
 It's not KZ IEM.  It's cosonic w1.
 http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.22.DvLECe&id=43789711515&ns=1&abbucket=17


----------



## EISENbricher

Nice deal for ED9. Seems that there are now two colors for this earphone. On launch time there was only one available.
  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-super-bass-in-ear-earphone-with-mic-dj-headphone-Hifi-stereo-earbuds-earplug-noise/32319674390.html
  
  
 Also, notice the packing... it looks awesome :


----------



## ilikeiem

Is it genuine KZ?  I can't see a sentence like "By hobby, and focused, because the focus, and professional" on the retail box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


>


 
 They have stepped up their game 
 Who knows, maybe makers of KZ also do read what we talk on head-fi : D


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> They have stepped up their game
> Who knows, maybe makers of KZ also do read what we talk on head-fi : D


 
 I think they do, well i am pretty sure a huge amount of sales are due to this thread, so it would be wise for them to get feedback from here xD.
 I want ED9 but my current iem wishlist is big, it's so big i am going bankrupt. DAMN lol.


----------



## ilikeiem

shadowsora said:


> I think they do, well i am pretty sure a huge amount of sales are due to this thread, so it would be wise for them to get feedback from here xD.
> *I want ED9 but my current iem wishlist is big, it's so big i am going bankrupt.* DAMN lol.


 
 ED9 is a must have.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> I think they do, well i am pretty sure a huge amount of sales are due to this thread, so it would be wise for them to get feedback from here xD.
> I want ED9 but my current iem wishlist is big, it's so big i am going bankrupt. DAMN lol.


 
 Haha... what's on your wishlist? The priorities?


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> Haha... what's on your wishlist? The priorities?


 
 I am not sure about the priority myself, maybe like this: Havi b3>vjjb v1/Pistons 3>KZ Anv/ED9/DT3/R1>ttpod t1e.
 But i want ath im50 or im70 too(can't decide between so many option), though i am mainly "on the hunt" for a flat or a mid focused iem atm.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> shadowsora said:
> 
> 
> > I think they do, well i am pretty sure a huge amount of sales are due to this thread, so it would be wise for them to get feedback from here xD.
> ...


 
  
 That is to be determined, but I'm cautiously optimistic. I wouldn't recommend to anyone yet until we get some meaningful feedback. Let's hope the lackluster SQ of the ED8 isn't repeated.


----------



## EISENbricher

ira delphic said:


> That is to be determined, but I'm cautiously optimistic. I wouldn't recommend to anyone yet until we get some meaningful feedback. Let's hope the lackluster SQ of the ED8 isn't repeated.



Come on man, ED8 isn't lackluster by any means. It has its unique sound which is suits very well to certain genres. In fact, I pounced on ED9 on very first day only because my trust in KZ was unbroken by ED8.

 Let's not judge things by our own taste.


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> That is to be determined, but I'm cautiously optimistic. I wouldn't recommend to anyone yet until we get some meaningful feedback. *Let's hope the lackluster SQ of the ED8 isn't repeated.*


 
 Could you explain more why ED8 has lackluster SQ? What kind of music did you use to test? What is your source? Is your DAC capable of playing 96khz sampling rate audio?


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> What kind of music did you use to test? What is your source? Is your DAC capable of playing 96khz sampling rate audio?


 
 Be careful with those questions, it might get hot in this thread. I asked the middle one once and all I got was demagoguery & "it doesn`t matter" for an answer


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Be careful with those questions, it might get hot in this thread. I asked the middle one once and all I got was demagoguery & "it doesn`t matter" for an answer


 
 Ouch... really?


----------



## EISENbricher

*cough*
Hahahaha cheers

Everything is 'subjective' I learned that in the same thread hard way


----------



## B9Scrambler

Subjectivity is key. I, more or less, disregarded comments on the ANV because I wanted to try them for myself. The general consensus early on was they they were flat out bad, and to avoid them. Glad I dove in for myself. Next to my ANV and Micro Ring, the fan favorite EDse gets no use. I don't think its a bad iem, I just prefer, well, every other KZ iem I own.

The point of this comment? Take others feedback as guidance, and create your own opinions through actual experience. If I read my own review of the NarMoo W1M I probably would right it off as "not for me...pass". However, despite not being my preferred signature, they are a solid iem and are fantastic for long term listening, media consumption, etc. I wouldn't get rid of them for anything.


----------



## CoiL

And I`m still awaiting for my ANV ...I guess they are lost


----------



## bhazard

ED8 has two different sound sigs. Both colors sound different.
  
 I have the blue and it is too bassy.


----------



## LRManenti

eisenbricher said:


> Nice deal for ED9. Seems that there are now two colors for this earphone. On launch time there was only one available.
> 
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-super-bass-in-ear-earphone-with-mic-dj-headphone-Hifi-stereo-earbuds-earplug-noise/32319674390.html
> ...




They don't have two colors, one option comes with the package that you posted, the other comes with what I'm assuming is the traditional cardboard box.


----------



## souvikdas95

Just received my ED8m ( Blue ). I don't know why, but the before burn-in somewhat sounds like the after burn-in EDSE except for the quality of treble and highs. clarity in both instrumental and vocal in treble and highs is not good: has sibilance. Details maybe a little less but doesn't make much of a difference except for symphonies. Mids are far better than EDSE. Bass seems to be a tad more than EDSE. Melodeth does sound a little better in terms of the tone ( a little sweeter ) to the whole stage. Using WASAPI event config in Jriver.


----------



## Ruben123

But is tuna flagship store the new KZ flagship store?


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> But is tuna flagship store the new KZ flagship store?


 
 Don't think so... 
  


souvikdas95 said:


> Just received my ED8m ( Blue ). I don't know why, but the before burn-in somewhat sounds like the after burn-in EDSE except for the quality of treble and highs. clarity in both instrumental and vocal in treble and highs is not good: has sibilance. Details maybe a little less but doesn't make much of a difference except for symphonies. Mids are far better than EDSE. Bass seems to be a tad more than EDSE. Melodeth does sound a little better in terms of the tone ( a little sweeter ) to the whole stage. Using WASAPI event config in Jriver.


 
 For me ED8m (Red) got improved a lot after burn in. Let know once you think you've burned it in. 
  


lrmanenti said:


> They don't have two colors, one option comes with the package that you posted, the other comes with what I'm assuming is the traditional cardboard box.


 
 I see... thanks for the info : )


----------



## ilikeiem

souvikdas95 said:


> Just received my ED8m ( Blue ). I don't know why, but the before burn-in somewhat sounds like the after burn-in EDSE except for the quality of treble and highs. clarity in both instrumental and vocal in treble and highs is not good: has sibilance. Details maybe a little less but doesn't make much of a difference except for symphonies. Mids are far better than EDSE. Bass seems to be a tad more than EDSE. Melodeth does sound a little better in terms of the tone ( a little sweeter ) to the whole stage. Using WASAPI event config in Jriver.


 
 Also try all ear tips, sound depends very much on them. To my ear, spiral eartips yield best sound.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Also try all ear tips, sound depends very much on them. To my ear, spiral eartips yield best sound.


 
 +1


----------



## souvikdas95

ilikeiem said:


> Also try all ear tips, sound depends very much on them. To my ear, spiral eartips yield best sound.


 

 I have tried the following tips on them:
  
 1. Spiral Silicone ( default ) : Sounds decent.
 2. TX-400 Comply : A lot of Improvement in High Vocals/Instruments and Treble but at the cost of details.
 3. Double Flange Silicone : Enough Improvement in High Vocals/Instruments and Treble besides even better Bass and Soundstage experience with decent details.
  
 So, I would say, #3 option suits me the best.
  
 Status: 5 hours of Burn-In


----------



## souvikdas95

My current thoughts:
 Does N45 mean that Neodymium has been used in ED8m ( BLUE )? If so, no doubt, why it is more natural sounding ( not funny sounding - as some of you guys believe so ) than EDSE.
 EDSE has a sort of damp and closed soundstage. Very rarely, it would open up - depends on Source. ED8m activates better with a much open and airier soundstage.
 Details maybe a little less, part of which is suppressed, maybe due to weight of the bass and width of the soundstage in case of ED8m but it's yet debatable. This is because, I have observed details much finer than EDSE in parts of sound, which requires less populated soundstage, such as in case of sounds of light-rainfall in forests, alleys, mountains, valleys and various other natural as well as artistic environments. EDSE just can't amend such details.
 Now based on burn-in of EDSE, my whole deduction has changed. I believed that EDSE had a good sub-bass. Rather, it has good mid-bass. I used to think its soundstage was good, especially compared to its bass. Now, I believe, it gets its bass, only because of the small soundstage that it has. Only thing it's best at, compared to anything else that it has, would be its speech clarity and instrument separation at all regions without even a little sibilance - thanks to its double magnetic coil. ED8m has comparatively lower clarity ( as discussed earliar ) but an on-the-go listener won't find any difference if he/she was asked to compare. I have observed certain improvement in highs and treble after a little burn-in and definately expect and predict more, based on reviews by others.
 Now, the place where EDSE fails to make an impact - huge failure, is its mids. It gives a detailed but literally, more or less, blank-stereo / mono image of any instrument or voices played in this region, which before burn-in, I used to believe, was exceptionally great ( I guess I was only an amateur )
 Also, no doubt, ED8m has better 3D imaging capability as compared to EDSE.
 So, I would say that EDSE is relatively mediocre compared to ED8m ( BLUE ). I have no idea, how the RED ones sound.


----------



## Ruben123

You made me curious. ED8 should have very boomy - midrange bleeding- bass, and only bass. Are you a basshead that you find them natural?


----------



## souvikdas95

<removed>


----------



## souvikdas95

Actually, to be more precised, I have had an over-the-ear headset ( Sennheiser HD 202 II ) that sounded like these when I first bought. Now it's been 4 years ( uncountable hours of burn-in ). Till last time I listened to them, they were very good sounding. Required a lot of burn-in - a lot!! I believe that, once the diaphragm becomes a little loose, it will solve the problem with the midrange-bleeding.
 Ok, so I was mistaken about midrange-bleeding factor. Does that mean that bass eats up clarity in some frequencies in lower-mid region? Not really! I like bass but I don't like bass ruining music. Till now, I did not have such an experience with these in ears. Although harsh treble and highs with sibilance does irritate at times. For which, burn-in is necessary.


----------



## EISENbricher

Very good findings, souvik. I won't talk much about mids since mid is the most confusing part of frequency for me. Talking about highs my ED8 produces airier highs compared to EDSE. They sound more open and thus grant nice spacious feel. Sub bass is good and Mid bass is super punchy. ED8 is very, very good for melodeath, trance, progressive genres. Mids are good enough, though since I have some performers like Havi B3 and Tenore, or SoundSoul to compare, I'd say mids are lacking. ED8 imo are V-shaped IEMs. This doesn't make them bad by any chance, since V sound is pretty fun sound. 

Soundstage, fun sound and mid bass quality are two aspects of ED8 that amaze me. 

This is about my red ED8. After a lot tip roll I settled on Zero Audio narrow bore medium silicone tips for these. Sweet business


----------



## souvikdas95

Oh, I have got a very brief and ironic description of EDSE and ED8m:
 EDSE: Soundstage drives the Bass
 ED8m : Bass drives the Soundstage


----------



## souvikdas95

eisenbricher said:


> Very good findings, souvik. I won't talk much about mids since mid is the most confusing part of frequency for me. Talking about highs my ED8 produces airier highs compared to EDSE. They sound more open and thus grant nice spacious feel. Sub bass is good and Mid bass is super punchy. ED8 is very, very good for melodeath, trance, progressive genres. Mids are good enough, though since I have some performers like Havi B3 and Tenore, or SoundSoul to compare, I'd say mids are lacking. ED8 imo are V-shaped IEMs. This doesn't make them bad by any chance, since V sound is pretty fun sound.
> 
> Soundstage, fun sound and mid bass quality are two aspects of ED8 that amaze me.
> 
> This is about my red ED8. After a lot tip roll I settled on Zero Audio narrow bore medium silicone tips for these. Sweet business


 

 Can you try and listen to "Teri Deewani" by "Kailash Kher" ( Bollywood ) and tell me if you find the highs and treble still pleasant on your Red ED8m. Try at different volumes.


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> Can you try and listen to "Teri Deewani" by "Kailash Kher" ( Bollywood ) and tell me if you find the highs and treble still pleasant on your Red ED8m. Try at different volumes.





souvikdas95 said:


> Can you try and listen to "Teri Deewani" by "Kailash Kher" ( Bollywood ) and tell me if you find the highs and treble still pleasant on your Red ED8m. Try at different volumes.


haha Kailash Kher's voice itself always has sounded sibilent to me xD but will give it a spin.


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > That is to be determined, but I'm cautiously optimistic. I wouldn't recommend to anyone yet until we get some meaningful feedback. Let's hope the lackluster SQ of the ED8 isn't repeated.
> ...


 
  
 I only had the blue, not red version (two sets - got rid of both). I didn't like the sound signature, specifically the muddy bass. And the design - too much metal - too heavy. The EDSE were superior in every way to my ears. The reds must be better?
 As long as you guys like the ED8 - that's great! I remember when if first came out many of us weren't happy with the blue version. Hisoundfi, for example, iirc.
 For the ED9 - I'd rather see people hype it AFTER they actually get a pair (and I assume like the SQ) as opposed to before


----------



## CoiL

> And the design - too much metal - too heavy. The EDSE were superior in every way to my ears.


 
 Much heavier than EDSE? Edse is already too heavy for me (compared to piston2), can`t imagine even more heavy ED8


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> Much heavier than EDSE? Edse is already too heavy for me (compared to piston2), can`t imagine even more heavy ED8


 
 Dunno, they seem kinda like nunchucks to me..


----------



## souvikdas95

coil said:


> Much heavier than EDSE? Edse is already too heavy for me (compared to piston2), can`t imagine even more heavy ED8


 
  
 It's heavy but doen't distort the soundstage... that's why I like them. Gives me the feeling of actual drums. Only the lacking treble thumps and sibilance in highs - voice and instruments, are the 2 things that I don't like about 'em. EDSE also has pretty good bass but its soundstage and tone ( curve ) is not upto my expectations although the treble and clarity of voices and instruments, are by far, one of the best in all KZ IEMs.


----------



## souvikdas95

How about using EDSE and ED8m seasonally or during mood swings? That would make an awesome combination, especially because of their complementing characteristics


----------



## CoiL

souvikdas95 said:


> ....EDSE also has pretty good bass but its soundstage and tone ( curve ) is not upto my expectations...


 
 For me it was exactly opposite with EDSE... it had good large soundstage, separation and imaging (not so good as Havi B3P1 though) but it lacked littlebit bass quantity and "thump" and thus gave no "lifelike" natural enjoyable sound I would like, especially with jazz/progressive rock which includes contrabass - it was like "c´mon, where is contrabass?". And I`m by no means basshead, it just didn`t give "real" feeling in bass department. 
 But I guess we have just different taste in sound and maybe gear difference also.
 Btw, KZ may have QC and sound signature issues, one of my home forum member got few pairs of KZ and 2 out of 3 had more bass. I bought 2 and both were same sounding though. Just a remainder that we are still dealing with cheap china mass production stuff...


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Dunno, they seem kinda like nunchucks to me..


 
 No kidding... if used right you can kill someone with these. Just today I happened to drop these by accident on my office desk. In that silent environment it sounded ridiculously loud on impact. lol everyone was watching.


----------



## ilikeiem

I also like EDSE very much but I find EDSE has detailed sound, high frequencies are louder than it should be. Also having timbres that are not true to life. Treble is too harsh.
  
 ED8m(BLUE) has more natural timbre than EDSE. Soundstage is also larger.  Sound best when listening on high volume and with good source.


----------



## Shadowsora

I found anvs in a discount but ain't sure if this shop is trustworthy(Having 99.3% positive but mainly a cosmetics store and only 265 orders).
 I am thinking to pull the trigger...
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ANV-Mobile-Phone-Earphones-Without-Microphone-Wire-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Headset-Earphones-High-Quality/32317791837.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

shadowsora said:


> I found anvs in a discount but ain't sure if this shop is trustworthy(Having 99.3% positive but mainly a cosmetics store and only 265 orders).
> I am thinking to pull the trigger...
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hmm....the price is right. You always have the ability to dispute if things go wrong (hopefully it would not, but at least you have backup).


----------



## Shadowsora

b9scrambler said:


> Hmm....the price is right. You always have the ability to dispute if things go wrong (hopefully it would not, but at least you have backup).


 
 Yup that's what i was planning to do, BUT i saw ED3 is kinda neutral/vocal oriented... exactly the kind of iem i am "hunting" atm, i would appreciate if anyone could compare ED3 with ANVS.


----------



## B9Scrambler

shadowsora said:


> Yup that's what i was planning to do, BUT i saw ED3 is kinda neutral/vocal oriented... exactly the kind of iem i am "hunting" atm, i would appreciate if anyone could compare ED3 with ANVS.




When my ed3 eventually arrives, I'll help out with this comparo


----------



## ilikeiem

shadowsora said:


> Yup that's what i was planning to do, BUT i saw *ED3 is kinda neutral/vocal oriented*... exactly the kind of iem i am "hunting" atm, i would appreciate if anyone could compare ED3 with ANVS.


 
 Nope, ED3 is not neutral. Treble is boosted too much.  
 ANV is the most balance KZ IEM.


----------



## ilikeiem

Wow... ED9 was being sold for $13.99 on High Quality Electronic Products store. 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32322495771.html


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> ANV is the most balance KZ IEM.


 
 I hope so! I`m maybe getting my ANV today but not sure if this is the package or another order, will find out tonight.
 Yesterday I broke one of my Piston2 connections, left channel, and I had to lend EDSE from my friend to who I gifted them. Someone here mentioned little ago that EDSE has littlebit harsh highs and sibilance - I agree. But what I noticed (using Piston 2 smallest silicone tips) was that bass had littlebit improved with usage, not much though.


----------



## HawkEye0701

Hey, what would you guys recommend.
 I have 3 options in front of me: The Xiaomi Pistons 2, The KZ EDSE and the KZ ED8M.
 I prefer the ''fun'' sound. I have loved the Pistons but I'd like to know if the EDSE or ED8M are better or comparable enough for lower price. Thanks, any help is appreciated!


----------



## CoiL

For "fun" sound rather go with Piston2 or KZ-r35. EDSE is more neutral side and not so "fun" sounding. Don`t know about ED8M but maybe also include Piston 3 to list? Though, it shouldn`t be so fun sounding than v2. 
  
 Edit:
  
 I just decided to pull off grills from my KZ-r35. What I discovered, there are no filter inside, so, I decided to install similar foam filters like Piston2 have and yessss! - littlebit harsh highs are now gone and mids seem littlebit more pronounced (using piston2 smallest tips with large hole).
 Recommend to try this for those r35 owners who think highs are littlebit harsh.
 Since they are 32Ohm 18 Ohm and harshness is gone, I can listen them little louder also (as they should) and they now sound very good! ;P
 Another note though, bass became "softer" with less microdetail with this mod. Still, I prefer modded version more than without filter... harsh highs and sibilance (r35 doesn`t have sibilance) is not good for hearing.


----------



## souvikdas95

ED8m is a viral inducer. It's not everyday, that you get a pair of IEMs that contain both neodymium natural sound and also excellent bass quality and quantity - something that has the ability to turn you into a heavy bass addict. If it takes a bit of time to burn-in, it's worth doing so.
 I had another realization - an understanding why EDSE is not able to adapt itself to different sounds thrown at it - it's as if EDSE has only a limited amount of genre qualities. After a day of burn-in of my ED8m blue, I am able to feel the vividness in per-genre qualities in every song I play - what, people call as the NATURAL sound. It has the ability to give even LIVE recordings, a proper stage, bass and natural sound - making it appear as if it's sung again right in front of you. Along with its huge soundstage and bass, the difference it makes in listening experience, is just awesome - the very opposite of the case with EDSE.
 EDSE maybe jack of all traits but it's master of none. ED8m is just the ideal EDM + a Complete Rock + Pop Package.
 For now, I use ED8m - whenever I feel lonely - the fun character in it, has the ability to change the mood! I use EDSE generally when I need detailed listening experience - not the whole sounded-ness of ED8m - something which playback singers and instrument players need the most.
 I wish there was just one cheap IEM, that could do all of their individual works - maybe a dual driver Neodymium with pretty good bass quality and quantity and little less sibilance in high end and a good soundstage. Maybe, I should give the ZA Tenore and TTPOD T1E, a chance.

 Also, to those who are confused which one to take ( EDSE or ED8m ), I would suggest to take both - They both make almost a complete package of whatever genre in this world, you may / want to play. Infact, even in movies and gaming, some might sound better with EDSE while others with ED8m. They complement each other.


----------



## EISENbricher

souvikdas95 said:


> ED8m is a viral inducer. It's not everyday, that you get a pair of IEMs that contain both neodymium natural sound and also excellent bass quality and quantity - something that has the ability to turn you into a heavy bass addict. If it takes a bit of time to burn-in, it's worth doing so.
> I had another realization - an understanding why EDSE is not able to adapt itself to different sounds thrown at it - it's as if EDSE has only a limited amount of genre qualities. After a day of burn-in of my ED8m blue, I am able to feel the vividness in per-genre qualities in every song I play - what, people call as the NATURAL sound. It has the ability to give even LIVE recordings, a proper stage, bass and natural sound - making it appear as if it's sung again right in front of you. Along with its huge soundstage and bass, the difference it makes in listening experience, is just awesome - the very opposite of the case with EDSE.
> EDSE maybe jack of all traits but it's master of none. ED8m is just the ideal EDM + a Complete Rock + Pop Package.
> For now, I use ED8m - whenever I feel lonely - the fun character in it, has the ability to change the mood! I use EDSE generally when I need detailed listening experience - not the whole sounded-ness of ED8m - something which playback singers and instrument players need the most.
> ...



Good writeup of your findings. I find most in sync with my EDSE and ED8m. I has said the same in this thread a while ago...EDSE is jack of all trades, master of none. While ED8 is just fantastic for select genres. Their mid bass is easily the best among all earphones I own.


----------



## Ruben123

KZ ANV- how well do they isolate?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> KZ ANV- how well do they isolate?




Better than I expected, but not great. Shallow fit, like the Dunu Titan 1. Two vents. Below average isolation.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Better than I expected, but not great. Shallow fit, like the Dunu Titan 1. Two vents. Below average isolation.


 
 Better than MP8320 or Awei Q9?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Better than MP8320 or Awei Q9?


 
 Haven't tried either, so I could not say. Sorry mate.


----------



## EISENbricher

Is anybody's tracking status for ED9 showing up? Mine is still not showing up, I contacted seller twice before and he says that he still hasn't received the stock.


----------



## sodesuka

eisenbricher said:


> Is anybody's tracking status for ED9 showing up? Mine is still not showing up, I contacted seller twice before and he says that he still hasn't received the stock.


 

 Nope, that tuna guy told me that he will ship it today, after 14 days. I doubt that he's a scammer judging from his store's feedbacks and testimonies from members here but this will be the last time I'm buying from that store either way.


----------



## CoiL

And still no word from my ANV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I guess I have to open dispute. Sad. Going to order Piston 3 instead.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> And still no word from my ANV   I guess I have to open dispute. Sad. Going to order Piston 3 instead.




That sucks  I'm sure the Pistons will be awesome though


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Is anybody's tracking status for ED9 showing up? Mine is still not showing up, I contacted seller twice before and he says that he still hasn't received the stock.


 
 Sorry to hear that.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> And still no word from my ANV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 P3 is awesome. I like it a lot.


----------



## ilikeiem

If anyone wanna buy KZ ED9, I would suggest that you buy it from *High Quality Electronic Products* store.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32322495771.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

ED9 shipped and in the air. Can't wait to check these things out  woohoo!


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> ED9 shipped and in the air. Can't wait to check these things out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Same here


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Same here




Hot diggity! I hope they sound nice, cause they look excellent.


----------



## nilupulss

hello friends.i'm using panasonic rp-hje120 earbud.it is sound goid for me.can anyone compare this to kzed8,ed2 or dt3


----------



## EISENbricher

My blue ED8 arrived today! I have both red and blue now. 



nilupulss said:


> hello friends.i'm using panasonic rp-hje120 earbud.it is sound goid for me.can anyone compare this to kzed8,ed2 or dt3




I've used hje120 in the past. KZ is definitely much, much better. I'd recommend ED8 and EDSE from KZ family.


----------



## EISENbricher

They provided interesting blue double flanges as well with ED8 blue. They enhance already wide soundstage even further. 

For now I can say that blue is slightly bassier than red. Red offers me with more detailed sound. Maybe burn in will change things. It's good feeling to have different sound signatures though. 

Btw I'd like to thank GK official flagship for providing me with a new ED8 as China post lost my first ED8 somewhere.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Well...I think I'm going to give up on getting the CM9. They mailed it to the wrong damn country this time....geezuz.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Well...I think I'm going to give up on getting the CM9. They mailed it to the wrong damn country this time....geezuz.


 
  
 Maybe should do some cleansing ritual to deal with your shipping woes ,,LOL


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Maybe should do some cleansing ritual to deal with your shipping woes ,,LOL


 
 Awesome gif....that helped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I think I'm just done ordering stuff for a while. Once my current orders arrive, or whatever, I'm going to take a break and just enjoy my gear. This CM9 though...argh....man I want to try them. Oh well *shrug*.


----------



## sodesuka

b9scrambler said:


> Well...I think I'm going to give up on getting the CM9. They mailed it to the wrong damn country this time....geezuz.


 

 Have you asked the seller? I had the same situation and confronted the seller about it, turned out that he gave me wrong tracking number and mine is already on the way. All is sorted out in the end.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sodesuka said:


> Have you asked the seller? I had the same situation and confronted the seller about it, turned out that he gave me wrong tracking number and mine is already on the way. All is sorted out in the end.


 
 I'm waiting for a reply. Really hoping that's what happened with mine. These things have been impossible to get a hold of, lol


----------



## smy1

eisenbricher said:


> They provided interesting blue double flanges as well with ED8 blue. They enhance already wide soundstage even further.
> 
> For now I can say that blue is slightly bassier than red. Red offers me with more detailed sound. Maybe burn in will change things. It's good feeling to have different sound signatures though.
> 
> Btw I'd like to thank GK official flagship for providing me with a new ED8 as China post lost my first ED8 somewhere.




So which color do you think is better?

And does anyone have the link to Kz official store in aliexpress


----------



## EISENbricher

smy1 said:


> So which color do you think is better?
> 
> And does anyone have the link to Kz official store in aliexpress



Personally I like red color. Oh the official KZ Store was there but since more than a month it shows no listing. 

Just buy from any reputed store.


----------



## sunny9036

I wish to get my hand on a pair of ED9, any review as compared to the others?


----------



## nilupulss

is anyone get ed9?do compare to ed8..


----------



## ilikeiem

nilupulss said:


> is anyone get ed9?do compare to ed8..


 
 I have ED9, ED8 (blue), ED8 (red)


----------



## souvikdas95

ED8 has very less vertical fidelity - which is basically at the cost of superb horizontal fidelity ( what is referred to as wide soundstage ). So, if I had to imagine a figure of its soundstage, I would say it's more like an elipsoid ( horizontally oriented ). EDSE is just the opposite. It has good vertical fidelity - which is, similarly at the cost of horizontal fidelity ( which is referred to as small soundstage ). So, its soundstage is more like a vertically oriented elipsoid but, not as extreme as in case of ED8.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I have ED9, ED8 (blue), ED8 (red)


so any thoughts oN ED9?


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> so any thoughts oN ED9?


 
  
 In short, it's KZ first HIRES earphone. It comes with 4 removable nozzles. 
 I also took some photograph so you can compare the size of ED9 with Xiaomi Piston 3, Apple Earbud and KZ-ED8


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> In short, it's KZ first HIRES earphone. It comes with 4 removable nozzles.
> I also took some photograph so you can compare the size of ED9 with Xiaomi Piston 3, Apple Earbud and KZ-ED8


 
 TYVM for all the pics. 
 Can't wait for mine : ) 
  
 So basically they are best sounding KZs?


----------



## codearm2

So, how about the ED9 impressions?
 Mine just arrived, gonna unbox and burn it next week! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 BTW, what's the best KZ IEM in your guys' opinion and can anyone share the Aliexpress links?
  
 I'm new in this KZ madness


----------



## bduncan5

I'll throw in a quick 2 cents on the ED9 as I've only had them a few days and only burned in for about 15 hours. The sound stage is ED8 like; very wide but the similarity ends there. This is to my ears the leanest sounding KZ yet. The midrange is very prominent and its just right for me. I don't know if the perceived leanness is due to less low midrange or more upper midrange but the effect is nice and the sound is very clear and open. That lean sound is hard to pull off and I usually don't care for it but the ED9 is balanced enough to do it and that's due to the bass and treble. The bass seems to emphasize the low bass and its there in spades, because of the huge sound stage the ED9 almost reminds you of the ED8 until you realize it's bass is more limited to the very low frequencies. There seems to be an emphasis in the treble region somewhere as the highs are present and clarity and details are noticed. The burn in is smoothing out the treble area. Because of the sound stage and clarity this is a great IEM for real instruments in a big setting.


----------



## nilupulss

i am going to buy kz-ed special edition for my friend,for me,i like ed8,ed9,dt3.mosly i listen,pop music.i'd prefer good vocal and clear bass.recommend me one earbud from these 3.


----------



## ilikeiem

If you own ED9, try comply foam ear tips. It will unleash the power of ED9. You're gonna like it for sure.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> TYVM for all the pics.
> Can't wait for mine : )
> 
> So basically they are best sounding KZs?



IMHO, with suitable ear tips , ED9 is the best sounding. best KZ ever... LOL


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > so any thoughts oN ED9?
> ...


 
 Whaaaaaat? It has removable nozzles? Didn`t know that!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Now, which one You like better soundwise and why - Piston 3 or ED9 ? Note: with using non-foam tips (sorry but I kinda hate foam tips).


----------



## EISENbricher

One day KZ is gonna launch a BA IEM, I'm sure


----------



## bduncan5

While the ED9's are breaking in I'm using triple flange tips for a good seal, I'm sure foam will sound good too[I use foam with the ED8]. I'm also basing my opinion using the filter without the hole. The other filter has a much smaller hole than that on the KZGR so its brighter but not overly bright like I feel the GR is.  People who like the high frequencies enhanced I'm sure will like the sound. With the closed filter it's very good, the best I've heard for classical music or jazz with real instruments in real space. Vocal's  are also very good because they are right up front for you to hear. Piano is reproduced beautifully and for me that's always telling.. However the sound stage is so big and the midrange is so clear and present that  below average rock recordings can be exposed and sound a little busy and the sound doesn't always come together as you would expect , but maybe I'm just getting used to them. This is an IEM that does space, detail and dynamics and sometimes that doesn't work well with compressed music[ I've got the ED8 and many other IEM's for that] but this ED9 is very special and for me its KZ's best effort yet.


----------



## CoiL

Damn, can`t decide now if I should go for ED9 and wait for long time and risk getting it lost in post (like my long waited ANV probably did) ...or getting Piston3 and going for sure thing.
  
 bduncan5, what source gear are You using? I`m looking new cheap IEM for my iBasso DX50 which has huge soundstage, great details and dynamics, very well balanced sound with little hint of warmth (upgraded capacitors + Sound Unlocked FW).


----------



## ilikeiem

The thing gets more interesting when you know that *RED* and *BLACK* filters of KZ-GR can also be used with KZ-ED9


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Damn, can`t decide now if I should go for ED9 and wait for long time and risk getting it lost in post (like my long waited ANV probably did) ...or getting Piston3 and going for sure thing.
> 
> bduncan5, what source gear are You using? I`m looking new cheap IEM for my iBasso DX50 which has huge soundstage, great details and dynamics, very well balanced sound with little hint of warmth (upgraded capacitors + Sound Unlocked FW).


 
 Use SG or HK post, I find them much more reliable and fast than China post. Of course, if seller has that method listed. 
  


ilikeiem said:


> The thing gets more interesting when you know that *RED* and *BLACK* filters of KZ-GR can also be used with KZ-ED9


 
 That's awesome.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Whaaaaaat? It has removable nozzles? Didn`t know that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it has removable nozzles. 
  

  
 Furthermore you can also use KZ-GR red & black nozzles with KZ-ED9.
  
 If I were to choose between ED9 and Piston 3, I would choose ED9.  
  
 - Piston 3 is more expensive.
 - ED9 has better sound resolution.
 - ED9 comes with 2 type of filters. Sound sig can be adjusted.  With the right combination of filter and eartips, ED9 rocks!
  
 but if you need microphone, Piston 3 is the best!!!


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> That's awesome.


 
 It's gonna take a whole week to test all combination of filters and ear tips.


----------



## CoiL

I don`t need microphone. I need cheap IEM with:
 *large soundstage (not only width but also depth towards front)
 *well balanced sound but not lacking bass (contrabass inside progressive rock for example) but also no bass bleed into mids (not highest priority)
 *no harsh highs (littlebit smoothed, I`m sensitive to highs), with no sibilance (EDSE has sibilance for example imo)
  
 ...so, by considering those things ...Piston 3 or ED9 better?
  
 and reminder ...foam tips excluded.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> I don`t need microphone. I need cheap IEM with:
> *large soundstage (not only width but also depth towards front)
> *well balanced sound but not lacking bass (contrabass inside progressive rock for example) but also no bass bleed into mids (not highest priority)
> *no harsh highs (littlebit smoothed, I`m sensitive to highs), with no sibilance (EDSE has sibilance for example imo)
> ...


 

 I think your source hisses!!
  
 lol
  
 Id like to hear LOTS more about ED9 though. Am I going to buy one? Maybe. Does it look AWESOME? Sure ! Only needs to sound like it looks.


----------



## joemama

ilikeiem said:


> The thing gets more interesting when you know that *RED* and *BLACK* filters of KZ-GR can also be used with KZ-ED9


 

 Did your GK-GR red filters come with the bass port or without (mine didn't
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)?  What are the differences between the ED9 filters?
 Can't wait to get mine (should have them in a couple of days)


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> I think your source hisses!!


 
 I hope You were joking because my DX50 has pitch black background. No hissing. The EDSE slight sibilance I mentioned isn`t same thing as hissing.


----------



## bduncan5

coil said:


> Damn, can`t decide now if I should go for ED9 and wait for long time and risk getting it lost in post (like my long waited ANV probably did) ...or getting Piston3 and going for sure thing.
> 
> bduncan5, what source gear are You using? I`m looking new cheap IEM for my iBasso DX50 which has huge soundstage, great details and dynamics, very well balanced sound with little hint of warmth (upgraded capacitors + Sound Unlocked FW).


 

 Coil I'm old enough that I listen to my IEM's at home only. No music on a phone for me. I listen to vinyl records and cd's. My digital source is Pioneer DV410 DVD player digital out into Behringer SRC 2496 digital out to Behringer DEQ 2496 digital out to Sony E9000ES preamp analog out to JHS O2 headphone amp. Analog vinyl is played on Lenco L75 record player analog out to Musical Fidelity AC cr dual mono preamp analog out to JHS O2 headphone amp.  I'm also high frequency intolerant I'm sure your source will be fine for the ED9


----------



## CoiL

Thanks!


----------



## sodesuka

Reposting this from other thread


sodesuka said:


> Just got my ED9. Wow another puncher at this price, I already like it better than Piston 3.
> 
> Will have to listen more to gather my thought on it but I don't have "this doesn't sound quite right moment" yet so far. I think it sounds similar to C190 with slight midbass bump and a bit less high. Edit: yes it is, also female vocal doesn't sound quite as open but they're close.
> 
> It includes two set of nozzles/filters the shiny and the dull one, the dull one is worthless since it decimate pretty much the entire low region making it sounds like an old radio.


 
 I only got two pair (four pieces) of nozzles though, I'm assuming that's the norm?
  
 Another good buy! 
  
 Edit: Edited version, this thing is really nice!


----------



## CoiL

So, where is the safest place to buy ED9 atm?


----------



## sodesuka

Aliexpress already has some sellers offering it at normal price (around $12-15), pick the top rated one just to be safe. I bought from that tuna store and didn't get the nice kz box that come with ed9, oh well.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> I don`t need microphone. I need cheap IEM with:
> *large soundstage (not only width but also depth towards front)
> *well balanced sound but not lacking bass (contrabass inside progressive rock for example) but also no bass bleed into mids (not highest priority)
> *no harsh highs (littlebit smoothed, I`m sensitive to highs), with no sibilance (EDSE has sibilance for example imo)
> ...


 
 If you're sensitive to highs, both IEM can be a bit harsh with default ear tips.
 As for contrabass, i prefer P3. Sound more natural. 
 For overall performance, i prefer ED9.
  
 You can buy ED9 from this seller:  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1112149
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/1112149_32322495771.html


----------



## sodesuka

I personally find ED9 to sound more natural. Piston 3 sounds a bit hotter than I what I think to be natural, its overall timbre is tilted to bright IMO.


----------



## ilikeiem

sodesuka said:


> I personally find ED9 to sound more natural. Piston 3 sounds a bit hotter than I what I think to be natural, its overall timbre is tilted to bright IMO.


 
 Yes, overall timbre of P3 is tilted to bright but sound of contrabass is just right.


----------



## ilikeiem

joemama said:


> Did your GK-GR red filters come with the bass port or without (mine didn't
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    Red filter of GK-GR works really well with ED9.  I like it a lot.


----------



## sodesuka

The problem with piston is the nozzle is way too short for that kind of design and I don't have double or triple flange to help resulting me only getting shallow insertion on it. On the other hand, KZ ED9's nozzle is a bit too big I have to use the smallest tips (thankfully provided) in order to get the right fit, the sub bass comes out quite satisfyingly after I've done so.


----------



## EISENbricher

How is the cable of ED9? And buid quality in general?


----------



## mochill

seems like the ed9 is worth buying


----------



## mochill

how big is it compared to the edse?


----------



## bhazard

Good to see the ED9 is a winner.


----------



## sodesuka

eisenbricher said:


> How is the cable of ED9? And buid quality in general?


 
 Pretty good. The shell is a bit heavy despite its size, I like how sturdy it feels. 
  


mochill said:


> how big is it compared to the edse?


 

 Don't have edse, hopefully someone can chime in.


----------



## EISENbricher

ED9 super cheap here... and seemingly good seller as well. 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32335920421.html


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> ED9 super cheap here... and seemingly good seller as well.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32335920421.html


 
 They state it comes without a package so i guess that's why the price it's cheaper.. i may pull the trigger on this.
 Thanks for the link


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> They state it comes without a package so i guess that's why the price it's cheaper.. i may pull the trigger on this.
> Thanks for the link


 
 With retails the best I could find was $14. Without package this is the best price.


----------



## sodesuka

Here's one for $12.6 for non-mic and $13.5 for the mic version (if you use aliexpress mobile app) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32322495771.html
  
 I've bought once from this shop and it's quite decent, and by decent, I mean arriving in two weeks.
  
 I think I'll be buying another as a gift for my cousin. It's cheap enough so he can get rough with it, looks good and it'll be a very good introductory to this world (not sure if this is a good thing though lol).


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> With retails the best I could find was $14. Without package this is the best price.


 
 I ordered it, wrote a message to the seller to verify it's ED9 with the extra nozzles and silicon tips cause they have ED3 on the description.
 I had the exact amount on my card so i couldn't get the more safe deal, so fingers crossed..


----------



## nilupulss

how long going to buy ed9,now ed8 price. want to by 3 pairs..


----------



## CoiL

Okay, I`m still having dilemma between P3 & ED9...
  
 What speaks against ED9 so far (for me):
 * cable
 * weight
 * shape of IEM
 * long shipping time to EU with probability to get lost
 * not so natural contrabass?
  
 What speaks against P3 (again, for me):
 * price
 * hotter/brighter treble
 * to wear over ear I might have to cut cable and exchange channels
 * maybe too short nozzle? (haven`t been issue so far with shorter designs)
  
 atm I`m leaning slightly towards P3 side... but... there`s this BUT... guess I have to order both?


----------



## sodesuka

Weight isn't an issue on ED9, it just that it doesn't feel hollow like other metal-made IEM I've held, it feels really solid.
  
 The short nozzle for Piston 3 however is a real problem, at least for me, here's how it is compared to similar shaped IEM, Sony EX650:
 http://i.imgur.com/YYgxR7z.jpg
  
 Notice how Piston 3 not only has shorter nozzle but also bigger housing, so if your ears are like me then it probably won't seal well unless you use double or triple flange tips. The Sony is actually quite comfortable despite longer nozzle.
  
 I don't see or have any problem with ED9's cable or shape too...
  
  
  
 And yes of course, the correct answer is to... order both, that's how we roll here in head-fi.


----------



## CoiL

P3 shorter nozzle seems not to be an issue for me. About shape... ed9 doesn`t have "supportive firm fit" style of shape and is made of metal. Cable looks a bit heavy & thick as with EDSE (I didn`t like EDSE cable). But all this is of course subjective and goes for me only. 
  
 I will order P3 now and order ed9 after payday probably


----------



## sodesuka

Well if that's fine with you then why not, it's not a bad IEM at all and worth its price. Though I've just compared the cable between P3 and ED9 and P3 actually has as thick if not slightly thicker cable than ED9. 
  
 I think xiaomi is saying something about using kevlar on the cable? Maybe that's why.


----------



## CoiL

sodesuka said:


> P3 actually has as thick if not slightly thicker cable than ED9


 
 Really? Ok, I`ve misjudged according to pics then. Though, ed9 cable should be heavier and not so soft?


----------



## sodesuka

Yeah ED9's cable isn't as elastic as P3's. I like the Y splitter on ED9 better than the one on P3 though.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ED9 is awesomesauce. I have many other gears that have recently come in, but I reach for these. 

They are up there with the best of what I have. I put them right up there with the best of my gear at the moment. They're just a joy to listen to. 

I got my pair with the new case for $14 USD shipped. Worth every penny and more. 

I'm starting to like the gold filter a lot. Very dynamic, with a healthy dose of rumble and punch. The Mids are great and treble is crisp. What really jumps out is the separation, detail, clarity, and out of the head sensation.


----------



## Charliemotta

+1    ♫


----------



## Hisoundfi

The ed9 cable is very similar to the vsd3s and GR07 cable. 

A little bit too much memory and spring in the cable, and will be proned to tangling if you are the type that stuffs them in your pockets and bags. This is due to the rubbery exterior of the cable.


----------



## Hisoundfi

All and all the cable is decent, and I really like the 90 degree cable jack. The strain reliefs are spot on and we'll done as well. 

I wish they came with a chin slider, but I'll settle for what I got because it punches way beyond what I paid.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I ordered ED9 with mic from here for $13.64.
  
 I'm leery about the mic - it may mess things up or cause premature failure - but it comes in handy with my Pistons and I'll give it a shot for only $14.
  
 Thanks for providing feedback Hisoundfi! After the disappointing ED8 I was going to stay clear of KZ.


----------



## Hisoundfi

There are some tracks I listen to with these ed9 the imaging is sooooooooo good, almost has a holographic sound.


----------



## EISENbricher

Let's see how I feel about ED9. I loved ED8 and have both Red and Blue. Still a week or two to go... china post is painfully slow.


----------



## ilikeiem

I get best sound by wearing KZ-ED9 cable over the ear. It's d@mn good.


----------



## Hisoundfi

This is where I got mine. It came in a sleek black box, with two sets of filters and six sets of tips.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6610044026.html?orderId=66800854611713
  
 Best KZ to date IMHO.


----------



## mochill

More sound impression plz and thank you


----------



## Hisoundfi

mochill said:


> More sound impression plz and thank you


It's a refined kzedse with the gold filter. Similar tuning. Slightly tighter bass. Slightly more resolving Mids and highs.


----------



## AudioNoob

Does the ed9 fit 400 series comply foams? Also what is the general sound like without comparing to other KZ( all the reviews describe it in it's differences to previous kz, which I do not have  ) Did anyone get the with mic version, is the mic passable, from the pictures, it seems that it has an entirely different cable.
  
 Lastly, they don't leak enough to be heard in a library are they?
  
 I'm trying to decide between this and the piston3 for a friend. Cheers y'all


----------



## AudioNoob

ilikeiem said:


> If you own ED9, try comply foam ear tips. It will unleash the power of ED9. You're gonna like it for sure.


 
 Hey ilikeiem,
 Does it fit comply 400? Also, since you have both, can you compare them to piston 3s a little bit
 -do either of them leak sound? (can I use them in a quiet library)
 -the mic version seems to have the same cable as KZ-ED8, how does that cable compare to the Piston?
 -and most importantly, how does the sound compare
  
 thank you!


----------



## ilikeiem

audionoob said:


> Hey ilikeiem,
> Does it fit comply 400? Also, since you have both, can you compare them to piston 3s a little bit
> -do either of them leak sound? (can I use them in a quiet library)
> -the mic version seems to have the same cable as KZ-ED8, how does that cable compare to the Piston?
> ...


 
  
 Does it fit comply 400?
 Yes, of course.
  
 -do either of them leak sound? 
 It depends on eartips and the shape of your ear.  For me, I find P3 stock tips leak sound a bit. So I replace stock tips with tri-flange eartips.  ED9 stock tips fit very well. No leak sound.
  
 (can I use them in a quiet library)
 With suitable eartips I would say "Yes". 
  
 -the mic version seems to have the same cable as KZ-ED8, how does that cable compare to the Piston?
 Piston cable is better. Also built quality of P3 is better too. 
  
 - and most importantly, how does the sound compare
 First you need super good seal in your ear with P3 otherwise sound will be too bright. 
  
 ED9 has better resolution.  This is what i like the most.
  
 What I don't like about ED9 is its sub bass.  It's boosted too much.  I don't know why it's harder to hear bass note with ED9.
 Treble of P3 is a bit too bright for me but sub bass is cool.
  
 If you want something more durable with best microphone and you can wear while you're sleeping in the library, P3 is the best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Otherwise, take ED9


----------



## ricericebabey

Does anyone know where to buy the kz edse version? Ive been looking but can't find them... Thx


----------



## mochill

Is the ed9 smaller than the edse, and how much burn in did you do hisoundfi


----------



## ilikeiem

This will be my next KZ, KZ ATE.


----------



## mochill

, that looks sexy


----------



## B9Scrambler

I want them so badly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Went in on the AKG K553 Pro through Massdrop, so my earphone purchases are on hold for a while


----------



## Shawn71

mochill said:


> , that looks sexy


 

 Mo, altrunox posted more better pictures (internals) @ chiinese/asian thread than robervaul's above pictures, take a look...... so nice looks and it's a kinda IM series copy.....
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/15960#post_11567717


----------



## sodesuka

Yeah, don't think I'm gonna touch that. If there's one thing I hate with ATH IM series, it's the nightmarish fit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Looks really great though, it'd be kind of ironic if that's an all metal since it's $12-15 IEM vs $50-$80 one with all plastic shell lol.


----------



## chavez

ilikeiem said:


> This will be my next KZ, KZ ATE.


 
  
  
 HOLY CRAP THAT LOOKS GOOD!
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-new-arrival-KZ-ATE-sports-earphone-in-ear-bass-HiFi-portable/32334277693.html


----------



## Wokei

chavez.....you are back .....LOL


----------



## ilikeiem

chavez said:


> HOLY CRAP THAT LOOKS GOOD!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-new-arrival-KZ-ATE-sports-earphone-in-ear-bass-HiFi-portable/32334277693.html


 
  
 Look so good.


----------



## sodesuka

That driver looks like a miniaturized version of xiaomi headphone lol.


----------



## chavez

ilikeiem said:


> Look so good.


 
  
 Am I sensing sarcasm here ? 
  


wokei said:


> @chavez.....you are back .....LOL


 
 Im here all the time,I just dont post


----------



## Wokei

My bad chavez


----------



## chavez

Where do you find those GIF's,they are hilarious.


----------



## ilikeiem

sodesuka said:


> That driver looks like a miniaturized version of xiaomi headphone lol.


 
 Yeah right.  Too bad it was inside copper shell so no one can see it.


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> This will be my next KZ, KZ ATE.


 
 I decided to put my next IEM purchase on hold until I know more about it! Keep us updated ASAP!
 For me fit is going to be probably near-perfect with those which ED9 won`t be for sure and better than P3.


----------



## sodesuka

My defense is wavering lol. There are already some sellers on aliexpress but according to the seller on taobao the IEM will ship on 7 May so I guess I'll just wait a bit.


----------



## EISENbricher

Lol another kz already


----------



## Shadowsora

Wow, KZ is on fire!
 And they seem better each day passing, KZ8(refusing to write it as ATE)will probably be my next KZ when the price drops a tiny bit(Cheapo college student here xD).


----------



## chavez

shadowsora said:


> Wow, KZ is on fire!
> And they seem better each day passing, KZ8(refusing to write it as ATE)will probably be my next KZ when the price drops a tiny bit(Cheapo college student here xD).


 
 You are not alone,my ortodox brother.


----------



## Wokei

Members into KZ will look like this after buying spree when a new KZ appears which is better


----------



## ilikeiem

wokei said:


> Members into KZ will look like this after buying spree when a new KZ appears which is better


 
 C'mon brother Wokei, KZ IEMs are cool. Let's buy them all


----------



## Wokei

ilikeiem said:


> C'mon brother Wokei, KZ IEMs are cool. Let's buy them all :tongue_smile:




Everybody in KZ thread know Wokei is a big fan ... Me last order in July was for 10 KZ IEM....so for now just gonna sit back and watch you young guns blaze the the KZ trails.....respect to all of you all taking the lead and providing valuable input to would be buyer of KZ IEM....cheers


----------



## robervaul

Comparative characteristics: comparison ED8, ATE sound field to be more open. Compare ED9, ATE relatively softer sound.


----------



## CoiL

That sounds like teasing for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will order them tomorrow.


----------



## EISENbricher

I'm in for ATE as well, but will wait a bit for low prices and SG post shipping option. I'm fed up with china post, my ED9 is still sitting at Beijing :/


----------



## sodesuka

eisenbricher said:


> I'm in for ATE as well, but will wait a bit for low prices and SG post shipping option. I'm fed up with china post, my ED9 is still sitting at Beijing :/


 

 Dang man, I feel for you. Looking forward to ED9 compared to Tenore (I've heard it once but can't exactly recall it lol).


----------



## ilikeiem

Anyone try this? *http://test.tidalhifi.com*
  
 I plug KZ-ED9 straight into my Macbook pro with Retina.  I complete the test and here is my result:
  
Five in five correct, fantastic!
 You have an ear for detail and a good audio system, it’s for people like you that we have created the service. You deserve TIDAL for 30 days.
  
 KZ-ED9 rocks!


----------



## CoiL

@ilikeiem ,if You do research about that tidal test then You know why it is so easy  It`s not 100% proven yet but some tests and secrecy show that this test is altered with codec setting or something like that. For me that test shows absolutely nothing and is more like advertisement for Tidal. It`s too damn easy, even with cheaper low-fi gear.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/743658/tidal-lossless-listening-test-whats-going-on-here/15#post_11077298
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/743658/tidal-lossless-listening-test-whats-going-on-here/15#post_11105651


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> @ilikeiem ,if You do research about that tidal test then You know why it is so easy  It`s not 100% proven yet but some tests and secrecy show that this test is altered with codec setting or something like that. For me that test shows absolutely nothing and is more like advertisement for Tidal. It`s too damn easy, even with cheaper low-fi gear.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/743658/tidal-lossless-listening-test-whats-going-on-here/15#post_11077298
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/743658/tidal-lossless-listening-test-whats-going-on-here/15#post_11105651


 
 Yeah I know that the test is d@mn easy. I also figure out that their lossless music is only 44.1khz/16bits sound.


----------



## CoiL

16/44 lossless is enough also, imho. And I recommend Your to read about bit depth also, there are great knowledge in here, head-fi threads about it. 
 Basically 24-bit is only useful in studio mastering and mixing. Unless You have some special gear that can really benefit somehow from 24-bit (no idea how though) then there is no difference between 16-bit or 24-bit. kHz is another story. But I`m not here to rail this thread towards offtopic and flaming, this is just my subjective experience and knowledge about it. Anyway, go and do some research how digital audio works 
  
 BTW, I just ordered KZ ATE from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-new-arrival-KZ-ATE-sports-earphone-in-ear-bass-HiFi-portable/32334277693.html
  
 I really hope this time they will arrive... or I`m probably through with KZ, unfortunately.
 I ordered light grey version without mic (I just don`t use mic).
  
 By pictures they seem to be easy to open and if they sound good, then I`m going to make wooden covers with different wood for L/R


----------



## vovka

ilikeiem said:


> Anyone try this? *http://test.tidalhifi.com*


 
 i've done this test with my KZ ES and guessed 0 out of 5
 i think my understanding of what "high fidelity" is, is absolutely wrong


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> 16/44 lossless is enough also, imho. And I recommend Your to read about bit depth also, there are great knowledge in here, head-fi threads about it.
> Basically 24-bit is only useful in studio mastering and mixing. Unless You have some special gear that can really benefit somehow from 24-bit (no idea how though) then there is no difference between 16-bit or 24-bit. kHz is another story. But I`m not here to rail this thread towards offtopic and flaming, this is just my subjective experience and knowledge about it. Anyway, go and do some research how digital audio works
> 
> BTW, I just ordered KZ ATE from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-new-arrival-KZ-ATE-sports-earphone-in-ear-bass-HiFi-portable/32334277693.html
> ...


 
 I'm an experience Objective-C++ developer and I can do low level audio programming.  So I know so many things about Digital Audio. 
  
 BTW, KZ ATE will be shipped on May 7.  I guess you have to wait a couple of days, after that you can track the status of your parcel.


----------



## ilikeiem

vovka said:


> i've done this test with my KZ ES and guessed 0 out of 5
> i think my understanding of what "high fidelity" is, is absolutely wrong


 
 C'mon my friend, are you kidding, right?


----------



## CoiL

And what was the source? If it was some typical smartphone, then I`m not surprised by the result


----------



## EISENbricher

vovka said:


> i've done this test with my KZ ES and guessed 0 out of 5
> i think my understanding of what "high fidelity" is, is absolutely wrong


 
 lol with my TTPOD T1E I am unable to witness any difference between the audios. Didn't even complete the test as A and B sounded exactly the same to me. 
 My source is okay-ish enough.


----------



## vovka

ilikeiem said:


> C'mon my friend, are you kidding, right?


 

 no way, i'm absolutely honest
  


coil said:


> And what was the source? If it was some typical smartphone, then I`m not surprised by the result


 

 the source is my pc with HD audio


----------



## CoiL

vovka said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > And what was the source? If it was some typical smartphone, then I`m not surprised by the result
> ...


 
 And I think there`s Your so-to-say problem. I came from that "ground" also. Then I had ESI Juli@ soundcard which jumped levels above HD Audio. Now I`m settled with external DAC and DAP which sound even better (not so cold/dry and analytical as Juli@ was). ESI Jui@ was very good though, especially for recording but for playback it lacked littlebit musicality imho. Even my cheapo modified ELE EL-D02 DAC/Amp sounds much better than onboard HD Audio. If Your`e not using onboard digital SPDIF output to some amp/dac, then it is quite... sorry but bad quality 
  
 And now back to KZ. Anyone else ordered ATE already?


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> lol with my TTPOD T1E I am unable to witness any difference between the audios. Didn't even complete the test as A and B sounded exactly the same to me.
> My source is okay-ish enough.


 
 My friend, I guess it's time for KZ-ED9


----------



## CoiL

...or better source gear


----------



## Shadowsora

@ ED9 users, which nozzle you guys prefer? The one already on it or the alternative?
 Asking cause i ordered this one http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32335920421.html
 So in case they send me one without the extra nozzle i'll know what i'll miss, though i think the chance of the nozzles to be missing is small still i am curious.


----------



## sodesuka

The shiny/gold one. The dull/brass one is just too bass anemic even for me.


----------



## Hisoundfi

shadowsora said:


> @ ED9 users, which nozzle you guys prefer? The one already on it or the alternative?
> Asking cause i ordered this one http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32335920421.html
> So in case they send me one without the extra nozzle i'll know what i'll miss, though i think the chance of the nozzles to be missing is small still i am curious.


I prefer the bronze filter over the gold. There's still plenty of bass and it's more neutral and Mids seem more forward.


----------



## ilikeiem

I prefer red filter.


----------



## Wokei

ilikeiem said:


> I prefer red filter.


 
  
 Those are filter from KZ GR right ? Dont see any holes/vent in them ...mine have


----------



## sodesuka

Kinda regret selling my Sidy DM2 for cheap if only for that filter lol. Oh well.


----------



## EISENbricher

Fook china post : (
 Beijing will likely eat my ED9 just like it did with my ED8 that I had ordered on launch day.


----------



## joemama

ilikeiem said:


> I prefer red filter.


 

 Out of curiosity, have you tried the black?


----------



## ilikeiem

wokei said:


> Those are filter from KZ GR right ? Dont see any holes/vent in them ...mine have


 
 KZ-GR has several version of its filters.


----------



## ilikeiem

joemama said:


> Out of curiosity, have you tried the black?


 
 Yes, of course. I like that too.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Fook china post : (
> Beijing will likely eat my ED9 just like it did with my ED8 that I had ordered on launch day.




If it makes you feel any better, mine are still on the way too. 99% sure were bought from the same seller within a day or two from each other (based on what I remember from way back when they were first ordered... No idea what page that is on lol).


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> If it makes you feel any better, mine are still on the way too. 99% sure were bought from the same seller within a day or two from each other (based on what I remember from way back when they were first ordered... No idea what page that is on lol).



Lol yeah certainly that makes me feel better. I wonder which postal service did you guys (who already received ED9) opted for?


----------



## AlecR

If I like the Carbo Tenore, will I like these?


----------



## chavez

alecr said:


> If I like the Carbo Tenore, will I like these?


 
 Which one to be exact?


----------



## AlecR

Well I like the "flat" sound of the Carbo Tenore so which would be best for me?


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> Well I like the "flat" sound of the Carbo Tenore so which would be best for me?


 
 Wow lol I just came here to ask the same question. I have ZA Tenore (which is my most favourite IEM in my collection) so if any help in comparing ED9 with it will be really good. 
  
 Otherwise I'll provide some insight whenever I receive my ED9.


----------



## AlecR

eisenbricher said:


> Wow lol I just came here to ask the same question. I have ZA Tenore (which is my most favourite IEM in my collection) so if any help in comparing ED9 with it will be really good.
> 
> Otherwise I'll provide some insight whenever I receive my ED9.


 
  
 I'm going to make a club soon to talk about my  IEM buying obsession


----------



## CoiL

KZ ATE - Status: The seller has shipped Your order


----------



## sodesuka

coil said:


> KZ ATE - Status: The seller has shipped Your order


 

 Not trying to bring you down but this doesn't mean that the seller actually has shipped the order. As someone said, seller could get tracking numbers and ship the orders weeks later. Happened to my, and others', ED9 here. I suggest to just keep checking on the tracking number until it gets an actual status.


----------



## ilikeiem

For anyone who own ED9, I suggest that you configure your audio output to a sampling rate of 192khz / 32 bits. You will be amazed.


----------



## EISENbricher

sodesuka said:


> Not trying to bring you down but this doesn't mean that the seller actually has shipped the order. As someone said, seller could get tracking numbers and ship the orders weeks later. Happened to my, and others', ED9 here. I suggest to just keep checking on the tracking number until it gets an actual status.


 
 Happened to me many times. They mark item as shipped and provide us the tracking# but actually ship out the product later.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Happened to me many times. They mark item as shipped and provide us the tracking# but actually ship out the product later.


 
 This is common. Once the seller has labeled the tracking number to the parcel, they can mark the item as shipped.  Then seller can delivery the parcel to the post office.


----------



## CoiL

OK. Progress anyway


----------



## AlecR

So which one would suit a Zero-Audio Carbo Tenore fan?


----------



## AlecR

So as a UK-person unfamiliar with the wonderful world of Chinese shopping, how do I go about obtaining a pair of these?


----------



## gtrx333

Go on aliexpress, make an account and pay with credit credit. Not too different to ebay.


----------



## AlecR

I keep hearing about Taobao. What is this?


----------



## ilikeiem

alecr said:


> I keep hearing about Taobao. What is this?


 
 Just like Amazon but won't ship outside China. If you wanna buy from Taobao, you need agent e.g. Yoybuy.com


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Just like Amazon but won't ship outside China. If you wanna buy from Taobao, you need agent e.g. Yoybuy.com


 
 Or MisterTao. Worked very well for me.


----------



## AlecR

Are these good?


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> Are these good?


 
 A1... very old KZ model. You can find additional details about it in the very first post of this thread. IMO the later KZ IEMs overtook it in SQ.


----------



## AlecR

So which out of the newer models should I try first?


----------



## ilikeiem

alecr said:


> So which out of the newer models should I try first?


 
 KZ-LP2


----------



## mochill

how about kz-lp3 ???


----------



## AlecR

I'll take a look.

By the way, does anybody use Tapatalk with this forum? I can't edit my posts through the app?


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> A1... very old KZ model. You can find additional details about it in the very first post of this thread. IMO the later KZ IEMs overtook it in SQ.




A1 is one of the earliest KZ model ...saw it on Aliexpress while back for around 5-7$....pretty good if you are into V sound signature...imho


----------



## EISENbricher

Yay! Finally my ED9 reached to India. Well it's still on East Coast while I live at West Coast. Customs also stands between. But regardless of that, I'm sure that I'll be receiving it withing one to two weeks. Something to cheer upon : )


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Yay! Finally my ED9 reached to India. Well it's still on East Coast while I live at West Coast. Customs also stands between. But regardless of that, I'm sure that I'll be receiving it withing one to two weeks. Something to cheer upon : )




Two weeks to get to you...wow....wee bit long...looking forward to your impression....Me know Hisoundfi really loving them....want SO much to get them....but got to bite me tongue for now...Cheers


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Yay! Finally my ED9 reached to India. Well it's still on East Coast while I live at West Coast. Customs also stands between. But regardless of that, I'm sure that I'll be receiving it withing one to two weeks. Something to cheer upon : )




Glad yours has almost arrived  mine still hasn't reached Canadian soil, lol. Guessing a couple more weeks at least.


----------



## satansmutt

My ED9 were ordered on 30th April and have just arrived here today at my house in the UK . I am declaring that as an official world record nothing has ever arrived from Aliexpress as fast as that


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Glad yours has almost arrived
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My blessings with your ED9  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 'Almost' isn't a correct term though, much distance to cover still (in India) and India post isn't as good as post services abroad.
  


satansmutt said:


> My ED9 were ordered on 30th April and have just arrived here today at my house in the UK . I am declaring that as an official world record nothing has ever arrived from Aliexpress as fast as that


 
 Wow which shipping method did you chose? I'll jump from the hill if that was china post lol.


----------



## Wokei

satansmutt said:


> My ED9 were ordered on 30th April and have just arrived here today at my house in the UK . I am declaring that as an official world record nothing has ever arrived from Aliexpress as fast as that


----------



## satansmutt

eisenbricher said:


> My blessings with your ED9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It certainly was China post my friend so start climbing that hill. I am still in shock and spent so long looking at the box in total disbelief I forgot to open it. I also ordered some earbuds via Aliexpress on 28th April and they arrived at the same time


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> My blessings with your ED9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wait my friend. Don't jump off the hill. You need to give impression on ED9 first.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Wait my friend. Don't jump off the hill. You need to give impression on ED9 first.


 
 Oops correct xD Jump off the hill, Uncheck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hmm... now that I see his username I see why he wants me to jump off the hill lol
  


satansmutt said:


> It certainly was China post my friend so start climbing that hill. I am still in shock and spent so long looking at the box in total disbelief I forgot to open it. I also ordered some earbuds via Aliexpress on 28th April and they arrived at the same time


 
 It's really staggering fact though... Fastest to me from Ali was 15 days, but with SG post.


----------



## bhazard

Got my VJJB in. Not bad. Not bad at all.


----------



## sunny9036

Just being curious, why no review on DT5? I am interested in getting this though having own ED9. Just wondering the diff in sound signature.


----------



## CoiL

OMG! 34 workdays after ordering my KZ ANV finnally arrived (cheapest China post to EU (EST)! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 First "hold-in-hand" impressions:
 + cable is nice and soft
 - jack is not angled and bit larger than I expected
 - shells feel heavy and are made of metal (except nozzle part)
 - angled build doesn`t let them properly wear over-ear without changing sides
 - stock tips have molding lines and not so comfy as Piston 2 tips (which fit perfect)
  
 Now, about sound... these sound good. By initial impressions I would say better than EDSE. They sound very well balanced and neutral and lots of microdetail in highs region.
 Haven`t done much listening to different genres yet and they need some "burn-in" before I judge but male vocals could use maybe some more mids and warmth.
 Soundstage seems good and sub-bass is also there, to what extent, can`t comment yet.
  
 Now, straight on to modding. They fit very good for my ears when worn over-ear, so, I pulled them apart gently, there`s even one tiny "gap-hole" for opening them (by the aluminium ring that separates plastic and metal shell). Yippiii! They opened easily and now *over-ear angle can be set to Your needs*! No need to swap sides or resolder jack end.
 That brings me fast-foward -* these are heavily modifiable*!!! Yippiii for me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Already thinking about *re-cabling* these!
 Also, I want tinybit more warmth and I will install mahagony wood end-plates for sure (will try open ended also).
 Maybe I will mess also with inside shell damping littlebit.
  
 Fun fun fun!


----------



## Koolpep

eisenbricher said:


> My blessings with your ED9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Don't complain about the post in India, at least they deliver to your house - come to the UAE and you can fetch your stuff in a PO BOX (only way) and sending a letter within the city (mind you to a PO BOX in a Post Office) can take 2 weeks. Not inside a country, inside a city....
  
 Hence, everyone uses couriers....
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## mochill

Does anyone have the lp3 yet??


----------



## CoiL

I do not know why... but I just ordered KZ GR too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 When I receive all my orders I will have these to compare:
 1. ATE (not received yet)
 2. ANV
 3. R35
 4. EDSE
 5. GR (not received yet)


----------



## satansmutt

Just had a quick listen to my ED9s like people have already mentioned they have a very good soundstage a lot of space between instruments and vocals and good clarity, I think they are well worth the money I paid for them.
 I like the dull/matt filters the best they have a more balanced sound the mids and vocals sound better and the highs are smoother.
 The gold filters have a fuller deeper bass but the highs so far sound a bit harsh.
 They have a decent buid quality and are quite heavy for an IEM, a really soild reassuring feel to them, if you leave them in your back pocket and sit on them I reckon you will take more damage than they will.
 I wore them over the ear and used some double flange tips that I had from another set of IEMs and this gave me a good fit and a good seal, this meant I still got very good bass from the dull/matt filter when plugged into my headphone amp.
 Although I dont really believe too much in burn in I will give them about 5-10 hours over night and see what they sound like in the morning


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> I do not know why... but I just ordered KZ GR too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ...and I just added ED9 (without mic).
  
 Seems it is pointless to resist this KZ madness


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> OMG! 34 workdays after ordering my KZ ANV finnally arrived (cheapest China post to EU (EST)! :blink:
> 
> First "hold-in-hand" impressions:
> + cable is nice and soft
> ...




Awesome! Someone else that likes the ANV. So underrated in the KZ lineup IMO. If you have any, try large Sony hybrids for shallow insertion and a great seal. You'll find that subbass  love the ANV. Such a good iem, and I agree, more so than even the venerable EDse.


----------



## Shadowsora

Pulled the trigger on ED3 too, so now i am waiting for ED9 and ED3 to accompany EDSE/R35 xD.
 I am extremely hyped for the ED9, and definitely i will order KZATE once i am less broke.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > OMG! 34 workdays after ordering my KZ ANV finnally arrived (cheapest China post to EU (EST)!
> ...


 
 Can You share link to those tips please? I think despite all my efforts to avoid buying aftermarket tips, I probably have to get some double-flange silicons or hybrids. Atm using Piston 2 smallest silicones with large opening (which are my favs so far, very soft and seal perfect).


----------



## AlecR

What's the fastest Chinese to UK shipping method, that doesn't cost the Earth? Want to pick up a pair of the ED3s but not sure which shipping method to go with.


----------



## ilikeiem

alecr said:


> What's the fastest Chinese to UK shipping method, that doesn't cost the Earth? Want to pick up a pair of the ED3s but not sure which shipping method to go with.


 
 You like detailed sound with weak bass?  Harsh treble.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> You like detailed sound with weak bass?  Harsh treble.




Such mean, much wow  The ED3 are no more harsh thank the EDse, IMO, but place greater emphasis on treble. The bass is weak, for lack of a better word, but then it is also quick and punchy for what it is. They have their place, but they certainly aren't a well rounded set appropriate for all genres.


----------



## EISENbricher

bhazard said:


> Got my VJJB in. Not bad. Not bad at all.


 
 Not bad would be the correct term to say. They are very good for the price, but not giant killer or anything. I consider V1 as little brother of T1E. (not sound wise)
  


koolpep said:


> Don't complain about the post in India, at least they deliver to your house - come to the UAE and you can fetch your stuff in a PO BOX (only way) and sending a letter within the city (mind you to a PO BOX in a Post Office) can take 2 weeks. Not inside a country, inside a city....
> 
> Hence, everyone uses couriers....
> Cheers,
> K


 
 Wow, didn't know such thing. India post actually is very good, in certain aspects. They deliver to the remotest villages, to the house and..... most of times they forget to charge customs lol. That way I'm lucky.


----------



## ilikeiem

b9scrambler said:


> Such mean, much wow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I can't listen to traditional chinese music using some KZ models (ED3, ED3 extreme edition, EDse). Some instruments sound like metal.  Female vocal doesn't sound like real person.
 Take this song as an example:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Fc2amPf34
  
 It's beautiful song anyway


----------



## AlecR

What do I want to get then if I want some *bass*, for cheap*?*


----------



## Ruben123

alecr said:


> What do I want to get then if I want some *bass*, for cheap*?*


 

 What is some? Awei Q9 at $3,50 are neutral sounding IEMs with quite an enhanced bass everyone likes. Not too much to ruin music and not too less for bassheads.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> *I do not know why... but I just ordered KZ GR too*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Many people said, "stay away from KZ-GR".  I don't trust them so I order it.  Once I listen to the music, oh... sound so weird, really weird.


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> What do I want to get then if I want some *bass*, for cheap*?*


 
 ED8 has nice bass. I quite love its dark sound. Heard a lot praise of DT3 as well, for providing ample, good quality bass.


----------



## ilikeiem

alecr said:


> What do I want to get then if I want some *bass*, for cheap*?*


 
  
 Do you own any KZ IEMs?  If not, you can try $14 USD KZ-ED9 first.  If you like super cheap IEM with good sound quality, take KZ-R1. I  bought it for only $3.71 USD


----------



## AlecR

I'm trying to build up my earphone collection with a wide variety of signature earphones.
  
 So anything good from this company, be it bassy, neutral, fun, etc., please recommend - just make sure it doesn't cost the Earth!


----------



## AlecR

Have ordered ED9.


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > *I do not know why... but I just ordered KZ GR too*
> ...


 
 Well... I`m curious how that "weird sound" sounds + it`s some extra modding material for fun!


----------



## CoiL

alecr said:


> I'm trying to build up my earphone collection with a wide variety of signature earphones.
> 
> So anything good from this company, be it bassy, neutral, fun, etc., please recommend - just make sure it doesn't cost the Earth!


 
 KZ R35 for fun V-shaped signature, bass is more prominent than other KZ`s I own, neutral mids. With correct tips and filtering can sound very similar to Piston 2. Without filtering highs can sound little harsh but has no SSsss sibilance. Quite tip dependant.
  
 KZ ANV for very balanced sound. Quite hard fast hitting kicks, bass is also nicely there but not lacking when record calls for it. Highs are right on the edge of being harsh/not-harsh, without SSSsss sibilance in vocals like EDSE has. Great microdetails in highs region. Mids are very neutral and for my ears could use some "bump" because for example I find male vocals, saxophone and contrabass lack littlebit warmth and dynamics. Soundstage size above average and seems little less (narrower) than EDSE. Some bass heavy music may lack bass "sustain" and "deepness" but it might be the slight lack of midbass or low-mids, not sure yet. Probably low-mids are littlebit "missing" for that warmth and dynamics to create more natural lifelike instrument sound but anyway it`s a great analytical neutral sounding IEM and atm I would say best out of KZ by SQ (ED9 & ATE not tested yet).
  
 EDSE - well balanced overall sound with great soundstage and details but may lack in bass (especially naturality with contrabass). Require very good fit and seal with alternative tips to get sound "right". Highs tend to have SSSsss sibilance in vocals with many records.
  
 My personal favourite KZ out of those is modified R35 due to more fun/musical(smoother warmer presentation) signature for longer listening sessions.
 This is just my personal taste and I`m not claiming R35 being better than others, technically it isn`t. Objectively I would still say ANV is best out of those 3. But EDSE has it`s own strengths like soundstage and overall detail retrieval but slight sibilance in highs and physical design/fit put it just fraction under ANV, IMO.
  
 Edit: 
  
 KZ NEWS!

  
 Wish I waited little longer but oh well... they were cheap anyway, although I could have got exactly 2 of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Now, since they come with foam tips (which I personally don`t like) then anyone has idea about nozzle size?


----------



## Ira Delphic

coil said:


> ...
> KZ NEWS!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got the same email - 
  
 For $10 I may just go for it. But I have those foam tips - will pass on that.


----------



## gtrx333

What website/store is that from?


----------



## Shadowsora

Well i am interested in which store too, the gk official store? I can't find it anywhere :X


----------



## B9Scrambler

I got that email too . I'm going to buy a bundle of them at that price for Xmas presents. I'll just have to get some appropriately priced carrying cases to go along with them. Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## chavez

Anyone has 10$ to lend me? Geez i  rly want them T_T


----------



## Shawn71

but what's the store (ali) that email has it?.....


----------



## Shadowsora

Well the "official kz store" migrated to this one http://www.aliexpress.com/store/new-arrivals/1358152.html?tracelog=newarrivals_tab
 I see a KZ-ATE there and it's original price is the one before the discount, so that's it.
 Now if i understood correctly the discount will start in 7 days or they are lost in translation and only people with the email can buy it at a discounted price.


----------



## joemama

shadowsora said:


> Well the "official kz store" migrated to this one http://www.aliexpress.com/store/new-arrivals/1358152.html?tracelog=newarrivals_tab
> I see a KZ-ATE there and it's original price is the one before the discount, so that's it.
> Now if i understood correctly the discount will start in 7 days or they are lost in translation and only people with the email can buy it at a discounted price.


 

 I didn't get the e-mail, and I was able to pick up the KZ-ATE and a set of tips for 14.98 USD. So much for my wallet (or resolve).


----------



## ilikeiem

Wow... Just order 2 more KZ-ATE for $51.96 - $32 discount = $19.96, so each pair is only $9.98 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/1358152_32337313320.html


----------



## chavez

Yeah looks like im not getting them  .


----------



## ilikeiem

chavez said:


> Yeah looks like im not getting them  .


 
 Did you see Store Promotion US $16 off per $25?  It's below BUY NOW button


----------



## chavez

ilikeiem said:


> Did you see Store Promotion US $16 off per $25?  It's below BUY NOW button


 
 No money.


----------



## ilikeiem

ricericebabey said:


> Does anyone know where to buy the kz edse version? Ive been looking but can't find them... Thx


 
 Here is KZ ED Special Edition with Gold Plate Housing  (Only $9.79)
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED-Special-Edition-Gold-Plated-Housing-Double-Magnets-Units-Noise-Isolating-HD-HiFi-Earphone-Headphones/1358152_32330216306.html


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Here is KZ ED Special Edition with Gold Plate Housing  (Only $9.79)
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED-Special-Edition-Gold-Plated-Housing-Double-Magnets-Units-Noise-Isolating-HD-HiFi-Earphone-Headphones/1358152_32330216306.html


 

  
  
 lol.... I think it's normal EDSE. They have used the pic that I had clicked and posted in this thread 2-3 months ago xD 
  
 It's just cropped version of the above pic that I had clicked on their listing page.
  
 Other pics from that session (Just because they came out fantastic) : 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## yangian

Any AB comparison of EDSE, ED9, and ATE?


----------



## Wokei

This KZ ATE ..in the store it says Dual Driver ......dont see the description saying dual driver ....pic shown look like detachable cable 

anybody can confirm this?

Cheers


----------



## Hisoundfi

I ordered the KZ ate. 

These things are so incredibly cheap, it's like every one is worth buying to see if I like them.


----------



## bhazard

I jumped on the ATE for $10 as well


----------



## EarTips

man..... the kz ate price is good......


----------



## Shawn71

I'm ordering just for the description (especially headset location) next to shell looks....btw,the 3rd picture showing "sliced"-view of internals seems it's an fixed cable,where the golden tube seat firmly in a slot and it's also a single dynamic....hmm,pretty strange about the vent facing inward (ears)....


----------



## CoiL

I don`t think it`s a fixed cable, but not sure. For me seems like it splits from the connection point somehow.


> pretty strange about the vent facing inward (ears)


 
 ?


----------



## anticute

Okay, so after lurking around this site for quite a while (and having bought more chinese headphones than I really should have, thanks guys..), I finally decided to register an account. 

While I am a HUGE fan of the Takstar Pro80, I needed something with a bit more isolation for my 2x1h daily commute, which means IEM. Right now I'm using KZ EDSE, which are really really nice, especially with a bit of EQ. Then recently I ordered the ED9, with GR just for the nozzles, for $25. And now, well.. saw that you could get ATE for $9.98, so now they are on the way too.. 

By the way, I find that while my EDSE improve with a bit of EQ, does anyone have a frequency graph that I could use to tweak the EQ settings?

Anyway, hi. You guys continue to cost me money..


----------



## CoiL

lol, GR is like spare parts unit - I also took it mainly because of nozzles for ED9 and cable for ANV (or others)


----------



## mebaali

Have ordered both ED9 as well as ATE. After a week's waiting, my ED9's tracking id is showing some movement. I hope it should reach me in a month's time (if i am lucky that is).


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> Have ordered both ED9 as well as ATE. After a week's waiting, my ED9's tracking id is showing some movement. I hope it should reach me in a month's time (if i am lucky that is).


 
 Have you ordered 2 ATEs from the above deal? 
  
 I want one really but don't have money for the two... and I really want only one for now. Could have shared one with you if I knew you were interested...


----------



## B9Scrambler

Where are you guys finding it for 9.98 (ATE)? Its still at 25 bucks for me...


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Have you ordered 2 ATEs from the above deal?
> 
> I want one really but don't have money for the two... and I really want only one for now. Could have shared one with you if I knew you were interested...


 
 I am sorry, mate. I have ordered just one ATE for $ 9.98 this morning. BTW, ED9 was a old order from a link that you posted a week back.


----------



## mebaali

b9scrambler said:


> Where are you guys finding it for 9.98 (ATE)? Its still at 25 bucks for me...


 

 Don't you see a $16 off of $25 coupon in this page -->> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/1358152_32337313320.html ?
  
 I got the price reduction at the check out page just before entering the final payment page.
  
 Can you check it again whether it works ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mebaali said:


> Don't you see a $16 off of $25 coupon in this page -->> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/1358152_32337313320.html ?
> 
> I got the price reduction at the check out page just before entering the final payment page.
> 
> Can you check it again whether if it works ?




I get nothing'. Maybe its cause I'm on a mobile.... Need to get to my PC!!


----------



## mebaali

@B9Scrambler - You may be right. this could be a PC/Mobile App thingy (this missing of coupon)


----------



## B9Scrambler

mebaali said:


> @B9Scrambler - You may be right. this could be a PC/Mobile App thingy (this missing of coupon)


 
 Aaaaaand it was. Although it took a couple tries get it to work anyways, lol. I had to apply the 2 USD coupon as well, then all the discounts kicked in. There's my xmas shopping for friends done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the assistance peoples!


----------



## mebaali

b9scrambler said:


> Aaaaaand it was. Although it took a couple tries get it to work anyways, lol. I had to apply the 2 USD coupon as well, then all the discounts kicked in. There's my xmas shopping for friends done
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Glad that it all worked out well in the end for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have got a message from the seller already that to confirm my mailing address before he can ship the product


----------



## B9Scrambler

mebaali said:


> Glad that it all worked out well in the end for you
> 
> Have got a message from the seller already that to confirm my mailing address before he can ship the product




That was quick! They already confirmed my payment


----------



## CoiL

Lol, everybody are running for ATE but noone even knows how it sounds. I hope it won`t be lot of disappointment


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Lol, everybody are running for ATE but noone even knows how it sounds. I hope it won`t be lot of disappointment


 
 I'm expecting them to be bassy since they're billing them as workout headphones. I've yet to be disappointed with any of my KZ purchases (EDse, ED3, ANV, Micro Ring, LPS, ED9 [haven't received it yet....but I'm sure I'll like it], CM9 doesn't count since it didn't work....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), so I don't think these will be bad, at all. Besides, buying KZ iems is like buying into blind boxes. You know what the package looks like, but you won't know whats inside till you open it up


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> I'm expecting them to be bassy since they're billing them as workout headphones. I've yet to be disappointed with any of my KZ purchases (EDse, ED3, ANV, Micro Ring, LPS, ED9 [haven't received it yet....but I'm sure I'll like it], CM9 doesn't count since it didn't work....:mad: ), so I don't think these will be bad, at all. Besides, buying KZ iems is like buying into blind boxes. You know what the package looks like, but you won't know whats inside till you open it up




CM9 escapes the hands of B9Scrambler....lol


----------



## EISENbricher

Where can I buy single ATE at below $10? Is there any way? Really want one...


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> CM9 escapes the hands of @B9Scrambler....lol


 
 LMAO....you know it. I was VERY tempted to try one more time with the re-opening of the KZ store, but I decided to pass. There must be a reason why three attempts to purchase them have failed. They're just not meant to be a part of the "Official B9Scrambler Collection" I suppose.
  
 That said, can't wait to check out the ATE (ED9 too!). They look fantastic. Does anyone know the purpose of the copper balls on the cable? I'm guessing they are weights to keep it securely behind your ear.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Where can I buy single ATE at below $10? Is there any way? Really want one...


 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html
  
 That should hook you up!


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> LMAO....you know it. I was VERY tempted to try one more time with the re-opening of the KZ store, but I decided to pass. There must be a reason why three attempts to purchase them have failed. They're just not meant to be a part of the "Official B9Scrambler Collection" I suppose.
> 
> That said, can't wait to check out the ATE (ED9 too!). They look fantastic. Does anyone know the purpose of the copper balls on the cable? I'm guessing they are weights to keep it securely behind your ear.


 
 Copper balls are better than brass balls?......


----------



## AlecR

What does the ATE sound like?


----------



## CoiL

Read the thread. Basically noone knows yet. They are too new. I`ve only seen 1 comment about ATE sound here and it was something like "warm sounding with large soundstage".


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html
> 
> That should hook you up!


 
 Thanks! I jumped on ATE bandwagon : )


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Thanks! I jumped on ATE bandwagon : )




Yw...and thanks to those that helped me use that offer too


----------



## AlecR

I wonder how fast the shipping will be...


----------



## B9Scrambler

alecr said:


> I wonder how fast the shipping will be...




Probably not very quick, lol.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Probably not very quick, lol.




Fastest for me 2 weeks ....Longest 2 months 

Most of the time ....3 weeks plus


----------



## AlecR

There is no way it costs £30 to send by EMS. The other shipping method costs just seem to be taken out of thin air.


----------



## Shadowsora

Ordered ATE too, damn now i am broke for real.
 Every time i say "it's the last one i order", then KZ hits me right between the eyes.


----------



## joemama

shadowsora said:


> Ordered ATE too, damn now i am broke for real.
> Every time i say that it's the last one i order, then KZ hits me right between the eyes.


 

 +1
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## Wokei

shadowsora said:


> Ordered ATE too, damn now i am broke for real.
> Every time i say that it's the last one i order, then KZ hits me right between the eyes.


----------



## ilikeiem

I like the plastic shell of KZ-ATE.
  
 BTW, I wonder why there is no listing for ED9 on *KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store*


----------



## Psxed

I just ordered a KZ ED9 and a KZ ATE. I lost a few headphones so i need some replacements for my portable setup (Sansa Clip + Topping NZ1). Hopefully they will sound decent for a metalhead.


----------



## Shadowsora

I get the vibe that ATE will have the same sound singature as ATH-M50-M70, only time will tell(getting hyped :X)


----------



## EISENbricher

Among ED9 and ATE, which one should be KZ's 'flagship'?
 Yeah they are of different kind but still...


----------



## smy1

Is this a good seller http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32322495771.html

Might buy 1


----------



## EISENbricher

smy1 said:


> Is this a good seller http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32322495771.html
> 
> Might buy 1


 
 Yes he is.


----------



## nilupulss

kz ate or ed9?


----------



## ilikeiem

nilupulss said:


> kz ate or ed9?


 
 get both


----------



## EISENbricher

nilupulss said:


> kz ate or ed9?


 
 No impressions of ATE yet from any head fier. You should wait a bit before deciding, or go ED9 for safe choice.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> No impressions of ATE yet from any head fier. You should wait a bit before deciding, or go ED9 for safe choice.


 
 Don't you think buying KZ iems is already a safe choice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I almost have every KZ iems.


----------



## nilupulss

hey this is out of topic.what you guys think about awei earbuds.i just orderd awei q8 ..don't have before any awei ...anyone know more details.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Don't you think buying KZ iems is already a safe choice.    I almost have every KZ iems. :eek:



Of course I agree, no kz has ever disapptme. But I guess he want only one for now, otherwise would have recommended both


----------



## Shadowsora

nilupulss said:


> hey this is out of topic.what you guys think about awei earbuds.i just orderd awei q8 ..don't have before any awei ...anyone know more details.


 
 I am waiting one over 45 days, they extended my buyer protection but i don't see it coming, their tracking was until it arrives here and it arrived before a month or so lol..
  
 I can't express a personal opinion but people say it's like a bassier monoprice 8320.


----------



## nilupulss

where are you from..i also get tracking number.i hate this waiting part after purchase.


----------



## Shadowsora

nilupulss said:


> where are you from..i also get tracking number.i hate this waiting part after purchase.


 
 I am from Greece, normally parcels arrive between 25-35 days with some arriving even in 45 days.
 The thing is my tracking number said it arrived at Greece before 1 month and still i have no means to trace it now when it's here, as their tracking number works only until it arrives on the airport.


----------



## nilupulss

it also happens some parsels here.i odered camera january this year.it never came.so i got refund.you don't believe couple days ago i got unusual pakage.then i open.Boooom.guess what.it's get here after long journey..


----------



## EISENbricher

nilupulss said:


> it also happens some parsels here.i odered camera january this year.it never came.so i got refund.you don't believe couple days ago i got unusual pakage.then i open.Boooom.guess what.it's get here after long journey..


 
 Haha so basically you got the camera for free?


----------



## Ruben123

I waited 7 months or so for a PC mouse to arrive...


----------



## Lawstorant

My record is one week. Yup, one freaking week to Poland.
  
 Now waiting for ED9, hope they'll be even better than EDSE


----------



## ilikeiem

lawstorant said:


> My record is one week. Yup, one freaking week to Poland.
> 
> Now waiting for ED9, hope they'll be even better than EDSE


 
 I'm waiting for ATE.  ED9 is better than EDSE. I hope ATE will have awesome sound resolution like ED9 but with different sound signature.


----------



## gtrx333

Jumped on the KZ train as well. Ordered an ED9 and ATE. Hopefully they will impress.


----------



## EISENbricher

Haha.... this is the biggest KZ shopping spree that I've seen since joining Head-Fi. KZ is playing the cards well.
  
 Now I only want some BA from KZ, then I can die happily xD


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Haha.... this is the biggest KZ shopping spree that I've seen since joining Head-Fi. KZ is playing the cards well.
> 
> Now I only want some BA from KZ, then I can die happily xD




Haha, yup! And it all pretty much started with the EDse (it seems). I'll be right there with you at the head of the line for a KZ BA iem.


----------



## gtrx333

b9scrambler said:


> Haha, yup! And it all pretty much started with the EDse (it seems). I'll be right there with you at the head of the line for a KZ BA iem.




Could try and email them at kzearphone@outlook.com. Maybe if enough of us do they might make one.


----------



## B9Scrambler

gtrx333 said:


> Could try and email them at kzearphone@outlook.com. Maybe if enough of us do they might make one.




Hmm....I like this idea. Where did you find their email address?


----------



## gtrx333

I typed kz earphones into baidu search engine and it came up with this website: http://kzearphone.com/ .Seems legit


----------



## EISENbricher

Talked with people at KZ a bit and they said that multiple new products are in pipeline. Also said was that at least one of the product sounds better than ED9. I think this is a good sign sound wise (and bad sign for our wallet xD). Also asked about BA and judging from the reply there are no plans of BA as of now.


----------



## playmate

I am eager to hear the impressions of the KZ ATE. It looks like a bargain. Any comments on how KZ products are in general compared to other Chinese brands? Like Vsonic?


----------



## AlecR

What I'd like to see is a Carbo Tenore-like product from KZ, something like the Brainwavz Delta.
  
My ED9 and ATE are on the way from AliExpress via China Post, by the way. Should be here in a week or two.


----------



## bhazard

KZ is slowly getting better, with a few hits and misses along the way.
  
 For $10 they are cranking out some very nice gear though for the price. Hoping a true flagship comes along that can compete with $100 range gear, and maybe a balanced set since I'm getting two balanced DACs soon.


----------



## EISENbricher

playmate said:


> I am eager to hear the impressions of the KZ ATE. It looks like a bargain. Any comments on how KZ products are in general compared to other Chinese brands? Like Vsonic?


 
 Never had a VSonic before but KZ is simply the king in its price range. You can see very good quality (mostly metal) shells, nice cables and good sound punching above their price range. It's general characteristic of most KZ products. Also, unlike VSonic (who take too much time to launch new products) KZ keeps designing and launching new products. Sweetest spot is of course, the price. 
  
 One point I'd like to highlight that, KZ has originality. Well they some copy some concepts from well known brands, but their most stuff is original. And also they are not simply copy pasting same sound driver in every earphone. IMO their drivers have a lot of variety. That's what keep people buying every new product they launch. Simply because there's 99% chance that it's offering something new and special.


----------



## Shadowsora

I want to see a dual driver setup, hybrid or not it doesn't matter.
 That is if they follow their KZ right price, 15-20 for a dual(dynamic) driver iem would be an instabuy for me as i don't have a dual driver iem yet and vjjb v1 seems to be fragile as hell.
  
 EDIT: I am sure they are getting feedback from here so i hope for big things in the "near" future, BA or multi driver setup :3


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> I want to see a dual driver setup, hybrid or not it doesn't matter.
> That is if they follow their KZ right price, 15-20 for a dual(dynamic) driver iem would be an instabuy for me as i don't have a dual driver iem yet and vjjb v1 seems to be fragile as hell.
> 
> EDIT: I am sure they are getting feedback from here so i hope for big things in the "near" future, BA or multi driver setup :3


 
 After a simple superglue treatment it's not really fragile. The plastic seems sturdy, just that the joints between were not well bonded. V1 is good for price and has a distinctive kind of 3d sound. 
 Well if you have some bucks saved up then try it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Yay! My ED9 apparently arrived today, but I'll have to pick them up from the post office as I was at work when I arrived. Funny thing is, the tracking still shows they are between China and Canada, lol. Can't wait to finish my shift tomorrow and give them a good listen


----------



## EISENbricher

Tracking details for ATE showing any information for anybody??  Mine are marked as shipped but tracking number still now working after 4-5 days.
  
 Quote:


b9scrambler said:


> Yay! My ED9 apparently arrived today, but I'll have to pick them up from the post office as I was at work when I arrived. Funny thing is, the tracking still shows they are between China and Canada, lol. Can't wait to finish my shift tomorrow and give them a good listen


 
 Congrats! Post your initial impressions. Mine still at customs : (


----------



## sunny9036

Manage to burn in my ED9 for 20 hrs. It seems like the cracking sound during high doesn't seems to resolve. Especially for Celine Dion tracks. Anyone having this issue?


----------



## EISENbricher

Nice deal here : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32322495771.html
  
 I heard the Xduoo is a good player. $55 combined is not bad at all.


----------



## ilikeiem

sunny9036 said:


> Manage to burn in my ED9 for 20 hrs. It seems like the cracking sound during high doesn't seems to resolve. Especially for Celine Dion tracks. Anyone having this issue?


 
 There is no enough information to answer your question. 
  
 First check your music file, ensure that the margin is set to -1 dBFS, leaving 1 dB of headroom to prevent any clipping from occurring due to the noise added by the decoder. If you DAC use oversampling to reconstruct signal, headroom margin is necessary.  Also make sure you have no clipped samples in your music file.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Nice deal here : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32322495771.html
> 
> I heard the Xduoo is a good player. $55 combined is not bad at all.


 
 Yeah, xDuoo X2 is quite impressive. ED9 is awesome.


----------



## sunny9036

ilikeiem said:


> There is no enough information to answer your question.
> 
> First check your music file, ensure that the margin is set to -1 dBFS, [COLOR=656565]leaving 1 dB of headroom to prevent any clipping from occurring due to the noise added by the decoder. If you DAC use oversampling to reconstruct signal, headroom margin is necessary.  Also make sure you have no clipped samples in your music file. [/COLOR]




Thanks for your reply, but I am a nuts coming into sound setting especially at what you have advised. I am using Sansa Clip with Rockbox, not sure where to amend the setting which u mentioned.


----------



## Shadowsora

Ate just got shipped, passed the checks and it's on transit by air.
 Something happened to China post, all of my orders via China post get processed very quickly when my previous orders where stuck in China for weeks.


----------



## ayao

Just ordered one of these ATE earphones, I think they look pretty neat; the shape reminds me of the IM-series, which I don't have fit issues with ^_^


----------



## mebaali

shadowsora said:


> Ate just got shipped, passed the checks and it's on transit by air.
> Something happened to China post, all of my orders via China post get processed very quickly when my previous orders where stuck in China for weeks.


 
 Agreed. Mine too got processed in no time and about to get shipped out of Beijing. That's pretty fast from china-post for me


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> Agreed. Mine too got processed in no time and about to get shipped out of Beijing. That's pretty fast from china-post for me


 
 Same here... already at Beijing. 
 Real wait beings now though.... Beijing airport to India takes most of the time in my case.


----------



## AlecR

How are you getting such detailed tracking info for China Post?


----------



## peter123

My ED9's arrived today and after a couple of hours with them I think it's safe to say that it's the best offering I've heard from KZ so far and also one of the best sub $50 IEM's I own. Need to play around with the filters, sources, music and som AB comparisons but initial impression is very good. 

Also shipping time was a new record for me with free shipping from China to Norway in less than a week


----------



## Biyankansta

Hi anyone. 

What type of KZ iem which delivering rich and heavy bass? 
I usually listened progressive or r n b music.

Thank you.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ED9 =


----------



## ilikeiem

alecr said:


> How are you getting such detailed tracking info for China Post?


 
 https://www.17track.net/en/
  
 Click on UPU


----------



## B9Scrambler

These ED9 are fantastic ootb!
  
 Bass output with the pre-installed shiny gold filter is fantastic. Quick, punchy, with solid sub-bass rumble. Soundstage is a little less impressive than with the dull filters, but it's still great.Not a huge fan of the dull brass filters. I find them a little dry, and they really nerf the bass. They make the treble a little too much like that of the EDse, splashy and undefined...mind you it's nowhere near as intrusive.
  
 The difference between the two filters is VERY noticeable imo....somewhat unexpected. The only other iem I have with removable filters is the NarMoo R1M. While I can hear the differences between each filter, they just modify the existing signature. The filters on the ED9 change the signature completely. Gold = v-shaped. Brass = treble/mid focus.
  
 They are also much smaller than I was expecting. AND, the included tips were usable, lol. Amazing! Can't wait to see if these improve with additional play time. 
  
 Now I'm even more pumped for the ATE. KZ is awesome.


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Same here... already at Beijing.
> Real wait beings now though.... Beijing airport to India takes most of the time in my case.


 

 In my case, getting cleared from Kolkata customs to Chennai customs takes the major chunk of shipping time. I just hope this time it will be different.
  
 Early impressions from some of our members on ED9 is only making me super curious to experience them


----------



## FHSWarrior

Best KZ for vocals?


----------



## Wokei

fhswarrior said:


> Best KZ for vocals?




Imho...it's CM9....with expectation in check bearing that they cost less than 10$.....of cuz there are better ones out there....among KZ imho opinion they are vocally good for me..cheers


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> In my case, getting cleared from Kolkata customs to Chennai customs takes the major chunk of shipping time. I just hope this time it will be different.
> 
> Early impressions from some of our members on ED9 is only making me super curious to experience them


 
 I guess you are right... Kolkata customs is taking huge time now... after a week at Kolkata customs my ED9 is still sitting there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mumbai and Chennai customs are extremely fast. They get done with your package in matter of one or two days.


----------



## bhazard

I completely forgot that the ED9 uses filters. The gold one is too V shaped for me.
  
 I need to try my old GR red filter later. If it balances out the bass, and ups the mid/treble region, it'll be a winner.


----------



## ilikeiem

bhazard said:


> I completely forgot that the ED9 uses filters. The gold one is too V shaped for me.
> 
> I need to try my old GR red filter later. If it balances out the bass, and ups the mid/treble region, it'll be a winner.


 
 Yeah, that's right. It's too V-shaped for me too but sound resolution is awesome. That's why I like ED9 so much.


----------



## AlecR

ilikeiem said:


> https://www.17track.net/en/
> 
> Click on UPU


 
  
 I don't see UPU?


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> I don't see UPU?


when you open that website it shows guide on how to use. Fairly easy, the biggest blue button on the centre top.


----------



## AlecR

eisenbricher said:


> when you open that website it shows guide on how to use. Fairly easy, the biggest blue button on the centre top.


 
  
 Found it! Thanks.
  
 Hong Kong post delivered an item to me in 10 days exactly which is pretty good. China Post seem to be a bit slow in my experience.


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> Found it! Thanks.
> 
> Hong Kong post delivered an item to me in 10 days exactly which is pretty good. China Post seem to be a bit slow in my experience.


 
 Exactly. HK as well as SG post are best options with free or very cheap shipping price. Sadly they are not available with many sellers. Whenever you see those prefer over china post eyes closed. I've seen sometimes Sweden post as well as Swiss post with free shipping charges as well, but never had any experience. 
  
 China post is slowest of the bunch.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Exactly. HK as well as SG post are best options with free or very cheap shipping price. Sadly they are not available with many sellers. Whenever you see those prefer over china post eyes closed. I've seen sometimes Sweden post as well as Swiss post with free shipping charges as well, but never had any experience.
> 
> China post is slowest of the bunch.


 
 Sweden post?  In my experience, 40 days.


----------



## sandman1990

ilikeiem said:


> Sweden post?  In my experience, 40 days.


 

 Swiss post is very similar. They often route their packages through Singapore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I had once ordered some stuff from a Hong Kong based store and it took around 2 months to reach me. They don't even update their tracking information correctly.


----------



## EISENbricher

Thought so... Judging by names Swiss and Sweden post don't sound like they'll deliver your parcels for such a low cost. Something fishy there so never bothered.


----------



## AlecR

The only good thing about China Post in my experience is that they never seem to charge tax.


----------



## smy1

So the shipping got faster?

My use to take like 4 weeks to come to the us. 

Maybe now 2 weeks?


----------



## bhazard

The old red GR filters sound great on the ED9. Brings mids and vocals up quite a bit... maybe too much. There is some treble splash like the ED3, and detail/resolution isn't near Titan 1 levels, but it's pretty damn good for $10. ~$50 level easy.


----------



## smy1

found these for $13 on sale are these legit sellers?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Latest-Original-Brand-KZ-ATE-Super-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-with-Mic-3-5mm-Hifi/334039_32341517416.html
  
 i dont know if i should just order the ate or the ed9


----------



## nilupulss

where can i find kz-ate for 10$ ..


----------



## nilupulss

i saw before something about coupen


----------



## EISENbricher

nilupulss said:


> where can i find kz-ate for 10$ ..


 
 The offer ended as I checked yesterday. It was available on GK Headset official store, exactly this link  : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html
  
 There used to be a coupon where it reduced the effective price to under $10 but sadly it's not available anymore.


----------



## nilupulss

how you guys dealing with alieexpress sellers..they don't even know answer to simple english questions..


----------



## EISENbricher

nilupulss said:


> how you guys dealing with alieexpress sellers..they don't even know answer to simple english questions..


i know right, quite an frustrating experience. 

Well it depends on your case. What are you talking about, a dispute?


----------



## JamesBr

nihontoman said:


> How soon and how cheap is the main question here LOL


 
 Seriously, I'd like numbers as well!!!


----------



## nilupulss

i put special note with order.i think they don't even read it before ship..i asked about it and they reply me(15-25 days)


----------



## yangian

After more listening EDSE, I like it more and more. I would say it is just a "little" Senn. IE80. Almost every aspects are a little bit inferior than 80, but many aspects are not very far away. Realy great for classical/symphony! At less than $8 price, unbelieveable! At least for symphonies, EDSE is much much better than 8320. 8320's soundstage is definitely abnormal. EDSE's soundstage is close to circle. On a good enough source, its soundstage is pretty spacious.


----------



## smy1

nilupulss said:


> how you guys dealing with alieexpress sellers..they don't even know answer to simple english questions..




They might be using a translator online. But I am not really having any problem not understanding them or them not understanding me

Ordered ATE hope it's good


----------



## Grayson73

So is the KZ ED9 the new budget king?  Beats Pistons 2 and 3 and Soundsoul S-018?
  
 Does it beat the $50 IEMs (KC06, Tenore)?


----------



## Grayson73

alecr said:


> What I'd like to see is a Carbo Tenore-like product from KZ, something like the Brainwavz Delta.
> 
> My ED9 and ATE are on the way from AliExpress via China Post, by the way. Should be here in a week or two.


 
 Are you saying that Tenore and Delta sound similar?  My friend who has both says the Tenore is worlds better and that Tenore has thumping bass while Delta bass is non-existent.


----------



## Ruben123

yangian said:


> After more listening EDSE, I like it more and more. I would say it is just a "little" Senn. IE80. Almost every aspects are a little bit inferior than 80, but many aspects are not very far away. Realy great for classical/symphony! At less than $8 price, unbelieveable! At least for symphonies, EDSE is much much better than 8320. 8320's soundstage is definitely abnormal. EDSE's soundstage is close to circle. On a good enough source, its soundstage is pretty spacious.


 

 I compared them too but I found the EDSE's treble to be too hot for classical. 8320 have also quite forward treble which causes some troubles sometimes, but less so then EDSE. Due to the lower midrange of the EDSE I too found them inferior for classical as most of the music is in the midrange...


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> So is the KZ ED9 the new budget king?  Beats Pistons 2 and 3 and Soundsoul S-018?
> 
> Does it beat the $50 IEMs (KC06, Tenore)?


 
 Patiently waiting for my ED9, I can run a comparison between those and Tenore. Alas, despite ordering on the first day it was available on AliExpress, mine is yet to arrive.


----------



## yangian

ruben123 said:


> I compared them too but I found the EDSE's treble to be too hot for classical. 8320 have also quite forward treble which causes some troubles sometimes, but less so then EDSE. Due to the lower midrange of the EDSE I too found them inferior for classical as most of the music is in the midrange...


 

 I think that's presonal preference. 8320 might be better for solo piano, violin. But for symphony/orchestra, EDSE is much better than 8320 by only one ear listening.


----------



## CoiL

I also find EDSE treble too hot/splashy with classical but main problem with EDSE is SSsss sibilance in vocals and for me personally also bass is lacking, for example contrabass is nowhere near sounding natural and deep.
 But lets not forget that EDSE requires very good fit and seal to sound to its best and source gear differences are also important (most ppl within cheap gear range tend to judge by typical smartphones and such, which are not so good for proper judgement imho).


----------



## smy1

grayson73 said:


> So is the KZ ED9 the new budget king?  Beats Pistons 2 and 3 and Soundsoul S-018?
> 
> Does it beat the $50 IEMs (KC06, Tenore)?




Well the old edse and dt3 does beat the pistons 2.1 so I am sure the ed9 will to


----------



## ilikeiem

For symphony/orchestra, ED9 is the winner


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> For symphony/orchestra, ED9 is the winner


 
 So can you AB EDSE with ED9?


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> I also find EDSE treble too hot/splashy with classical but main problem with EDSE is SSsss sibilance in vocals and for me personally also bass is lacking, for example contrabass is nowhere near sounding natural and deep.
> But lets not forget that EDSE requires very good fit and seal to sound to its best and source gear differences are also important (most ppl within cheap gear range tend to judge by typical smartphones and such, which are not so good for proper judgement imho).


 

 EDSE reqiure a good source for fully displaying its potential.
 Seems you are a basshead. EDSE have enough bass quantity for most people I believe since I classify myself as a basshaed and I satisfy with its bass quantity.


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> EDSE reqiure a good source for fully displaying its potential.
> Seems you are a basshead. EDSE have enough bass quantity for most people I believe since I classify myself as a basshaed and I satisfy with its bass quantity.


 
 I find EDSE needing an amp (If source is not powerful enough) to show the potential. Among my inventory it's one of the earphone that changes its impression to a higher degree when amped. 
  
 Agree with the bass. I'm also a basshead and EDSE offers pretty enough. People finding EDSE lacking in bass quantity either didn't get a good seal, or has faulty EDSE or just that they are too much basshead.


----------



## hydroninja

So how is the KZ ED9 in terms of midrange / sounstage? I'm looking for an upgrade to my now broken MH1 earphones that has a similar forward midrange and thinking about hopping on the KZ hype train.


----------



## peter123

grayson73 said:


> So is the KZ ED9 the new budget king?  Beats Pistons 2 and 3 and Soundsoul S-018?
> 
> Does it beat the $50 IEMs (KC06, Tenore)?




You've been around long enough to know that that answer to that question depends on who you ask  That being said *I* prefer the ED9 to all of the others on the list (except the Piston 3 that I haven't heard).


----------



## AlecR

What are the ATEs like, comfort wise? 

Mine still haven't arrived


----------



## yangian

peter123 said:


> You've been around long enough to know that that answer to that question depends on who you ask
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi, Peter, what's your opinion of ED9 comparing to EDSE, Havi B3 and Titan 1?
 Thanks!


----------



## hydroninja

bhazard said:


> The old red GR filters sound great on the ED9. Brings mids and vocals up quite a bit... maybe too much. There is some treble splash like the ED3, and detail/resolution isn't near Titan 1 levels, but it's pretty damn good for $10. ~$50 level easy.


 
 Do you think the GR filters on the ED9 sound similar to the MH1? Is it worth buying a GR just for the filters for the ED9 because I heard the GR on its own isn't that good.  I prefer forward mids and a good sounstage.


----------



## nilupulss

i can't track my one..please help RF033162540CN


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> What are the ATEs like, comfort wise?
> 
> Mine still haven't arrived


 
 None of us has received an ATE yet as per my knowledge.


----------



## CoiL

yangian said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I also find EDSE treble too hot/splashy with classical but main problem with EDSE is SSsss sibilance in vocals and for me personally also bass is lacking, for example contrabass is nowhere near sounding natural and deep.
> ...


 

 Me basshead?!?! O_O Pardon me! NO! My source gear (both DAP and desk setup) are neutral and well balanced with slight hint of warmth and slightly smoothed highs. I classify my sources certainly good enough and way above typical smartphone/cheap dac sound. What is Your source gear and what tips are You using?
 I`m not talking about bass quantity, I`m talking about sub-bass presence and naturality, EDSE doesn`t play contrabass and similar instruments/sounds deep and natural enough. Actually 
 also mid-bass/low-mids region lacks sometimes littlebit warmth with male vocals and saxophone (missing warm "breath" and "blow-wind" sounds for example) but this I have noticed much less and are mostly not the problem.
 For the record - I hate basshead cans and overly done bass but I also don`t like totally flat/dry/cold sound, it`s missing naturality, that`s why I prefer to have slight warmth and smoothed highs in sound signature.


----------



## mebaali

nilupulss said:


> i can't track my one..please help RF033162540CN


 
  
 If you had received this tracking number just recently ( I mean within the last week or so) then give it a few more days in time. Sellers at sites like aliexpress can generate china post tracking number well before shipping the actual product. This number in turn is provided to the customers as well as the e-commerce site as the way of shipping proof (This is done to avoid violating the rule of shipping the ordered product within 3 days of time by the sellers). Most times actual shipping happens only after an at least week. So you should see some movement in your tracking ID in the next few days.


----------



## peter123

yangian said:


> Hi, Peter, what's your opinion of ED9 comparing to EDSE, Havi B3 and Titan 1?
> Thanks!




I don't have the time to do a full comparison between the tree now but the short version is that it's significantly better than the EDSE (using the bronze filters) with more balanced sound and better soundstage. The only thing it does better than the Havis is bass impact while the Havis got better soundstage, separation, more 3D sound etc and it looses out in detail, clarity, separation and bass quality to the Titans. This is the way I here it now, might change since I still haven't had to much time with the ED9. 

To sum it up I'd say that it beats most (maybe all) under $50 IEM's I've heard and also many $100 ones but I won't say that it beats everything under $100 

Still mighty impressive for $14 

Edit: This is with the bronze filters, with the gold ones I'd say it sounds pretty close to the EDSE.


----------



## EISENbricher

peter123 said:


> I don't have the time to do a full comparison between the tree now but the short version is that it's significantly better than the EDSE (using the bronze filters) with more balanced sound and better soundstage. The only thing it does better than the Havis is bass impact while the Havis got better soundstage, separation, more 3D sound etc and it looses out in detail, clarity, separation and bass quality to the Titans. This is the way I here it now, might change since I still haven't had to much time with the ED9.
> 
> To sum it up I'd say that it beats most (maybe all) under $50 IEM's I've heard and also many $100 ones but I won't say that it beats everything under $100
> 
> ...


 
 Great. I wonder how it pits against Tenores. 
  
 btw now ED9 is <$10 with shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html


----------



## peter123

eisenbricher said:


> Great. I wonder how it pits against Tenores.
> 
> btw now ED9 is <$10 with shipping
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html




I prefer the ED9's over the Tenores but that's just preference since I was never entirely impressed with the Tenores


----------



## ilikeiem

yangian said:


> EDSE reqiure a good source for fully displaying its potential.
> Seems you are a basshead. EDSE have enough bass quantity for most people I believe since I classify myself as a basshaed and I satisfy with its bass quantity.


 
 How do you classify yourself as basshead? 
 I really wonder.


----------



## nilupulss

today arrived awei q8i purchased from ebay..they are really bad..good build quality..bass not good.


----------



## CoiL

Awei are only good for dialogue, skype etc. ,imo.


----------



## Ruben123

I really liked ES800m and Q9. T1vi is good also, bit more v-shaped then ES800m.


----------



## Shadowsora

I am waiting for q9, 50+ days passed since i ordered it.
 Buyer protection was running out and i demanded a refund they begged me to stop the dispute and that i should just wait, of course i didn't end the dispute and told them to refund me or extend my buyer protection, i got the latter but since i don't really see it coming i will open a dispute again in the next days.


----------



## nilupulss

i got my one very fast about 12days.but really disappointed about sound..this one really low bass and terrible sound.i orderd edse and ed9 hope they will better..


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> How do you classify yourself as basshead?
> I really wonder.


 
 Is there any very particular definition? I guess anyone who enjoys low freq region the most can call himself a basshead. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 IMO basshead shouldn't be stereotyped as someone wearing some super L shaped phones with EQ bass knob tuned to the max... lol that would be horrible.


----------



## hoshiyomi

Does ED9 isolate much? Looks open back so I am guessing no isolation.


----------



## peter123

hoshiyomi said:


> Does ED9 isolate much? Looks open back so I am guessing no isolation.




You're correct, it isolates less than average.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Is there any very particular definition? I guess anyone who enjoys low freq region the most can call himself a basshead. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> IMO basshead shouldn't be stereotyped as someone wearing some super L shaped phones with EQ bass knob tuned to the max... lol that would be horrible.


 
  
 In order to be certified as basshead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, you need to enjoy excessive amount of bass in the music.  For the example, look at people who install large subwoofers in their cars. 
 I have dual AMP and a lot of subwoofer in my car too. 
  
 BTW, at least you have to identify the correct timbre of bass sound first. If you have good bass instrument, compare the sound with your EDSE you will understand what I mean.


----------



## Suneth

nilupulss said:


> i can't track my one..please help RF033162540CN


 

 http://www.17track.net/en/result/post-details.shtml?nums=RF033162540CN
  
 2015-05-15 16:15
 Parcel centers, has received send
 2015-05-15 16:08
 Electronic information has been received


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> How do you classify yourself as basshead?
> I really wonder.


 
  


eisenbricher said:


> Is there any very particular definition? I guess anyone who enjoys low freq region the most can call himself a basshead. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> IMO basshead shouldn't be stereotyped as someone wearing some super L shaped phones with EQ bass knob tuned to the max... lol that would be horrible.


 
  


coil said:


> Me basshead?!?! O_O Pardon me! NO! My source gear (both DAP and desk setup) are neutral and well balanced with slight hint of warmth and slightly smoothed highs. I classify my sources certainly good enough and way above typical smartphone/cheap dac sound. What is Your source gear and what tips are You using?
> I`m not talking about bass quantity, I`m talking about sub-bass presence and naturality, EDSE doesn`t play contrabass and similar instruments/sounds deep and natural enough. Actually
> also mid-bass/low-mids region lacks sometimes littlebit warmth with male vocals and saxophone (missing warm "breath" and "blow-wind" sounds for example) but this I have noticed much less and are mostly not the problem.
> For the record - I hate basshead cans and overly done bass but I also don`t like totally flat/dry/cold sound, it`s missing naturality, that`s why I prefer to have slight warmth and smoothed highs in sound signature.


 
 Guys, yes. I just found it's easy to cause misuderstanding here. There is no absolutely creterion for every terminology. We can only quanlitively to describe them, not quantitively.  Moreover, sound must be feeled, but sense organ is so different! Remember that skirt?!
 So I recommand that when we give a description, it's better to give a reference to give others a better feeling. When I talked about EDSE, I compared it with IE80. Though not every person has 80, but that's a reference. Thanks!


----------



## yangian

peter123 said:


> I don't have the time to do a full comparison between the tree now but the short version is that it's significantly better than the EDSE (using the bronze filters) with more balanced sound and better soundstage. The only thing it does better than the Havis is bass impact while the Havis got better soundstage, separation, more 3D sound etc and it looses out in detail, clarity, separation and bass quality to the Titans. This is the way I here it now, might change since I still haven't had to much time with the ED9.
> 
> To sum it up I'd say that it beats most (maybe all) under $50 IEM's I've heard and also many $100 ones but I won't say that it beats everything under $100
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Peter! Please share when you have more experience.  BTW, Will be very appreciated if you could be a little bit more accurately do the comparison. How much it's far away from B3 and Titan? Even better to give them a score if you could.


----------



## smy1

nilupulss said:


> i got my one very fast about 12days.but really disappointed about sound..this one really low bass and terrible sound.i orderd edse and ed9 hope they will better..




Are you talking about the awei or the ate?


----------



## yangian

For symphonies, if IE80 score 100, I will give EDSE 75. No less than 70 and no more than 80. It's relatively easy to compare both because their sound signature are almost the same. For another reference, I'll give M9P (1 gen.) 60.


----------



## nilupulss

yes awei..i got awei q8i metal housing earbud..good build quality and pakaging.


----------



## nilupulss

@yangian..really?..edse get 75-80 score,compare to 250+ earbud.impressivemy edse still on the way.hope they are good in bass and sound..


----------



## Wokei

nilupulss said:


> @yangian..really?..edse get 75-80 score,compare to 250+ earbud.impressivemy edse still on the way.hope they are good in bass and sound..




ESDE is a good one ...no worry my friend ..cheers


----------



## nilupulss

there is lot of earbud options for cheap and good quality.what about on,over ear headphones..i never seen any one talking about cheap headphones..


----------



## yangian

nilupulss said:


> @yangian..really?..edse get 75-80 score,compare to 250+ earbud.impressivemy edse still on the way.hope they are good in bass and sound..


 

 For classical/symphony, yes. I can enjoy it. Combine building quanlity and sound, it's amazing. It's amazing that you can spend <$8 to enjoy symphony!


----------



## EISENbricher

Haha you guys having same avatars made me think that someone is on a wild repost stint xD
  
 Meanwhile my ED9 still sits at East of India : (


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Meanwhile my ED9 still sits at East of India : (


 
 That sucks man. At least they are worth the wait though! (IMO)


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Meanwhile my ED9 still sits at East of India : (


 

 Same here. I hope at least by Monday my package gets cleared by Kolkata Customs (meanwhile, KZ ATE is about to leave Beijing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## ilikeiem

nilupulss said:


> there is lot of earbud options for cheap and good quality.what about on,over ear headphones..i never seen any one talking about cheap headphones..


 
  
 KZ-LP3 is the latest KZ headphone but I don't have it coz I bought Mi headphone instead.
  
 I have only KZ-LP2.


----------



## igorpadrao

Hello People
  
 I'm interested in the ED9 and the EDSE models. You guys have any indication of a vendor in aliexpress for me to buy these IEMs?


----------



## peter123

igorpadrao said:


> Hello People
> 
> I'm interested in the ED9 and the EDSE models. You guys have any indication of a vendor in aliexpress for me to buy these IEMs?




Tbh I see no need in getting the EDSE if you get the ED9. ED9 with gold filters are very similar to the EDSE. 

I got my pair ED9 from this seller :

High Quality Electronic Products 
NO.1112149


----------



## igorpadrao

peter123 said:


> Tbh I see no need in getting the EDSE if you get the ED9. ED9 with gold filters are very similar to the EDSE.
> 
> I got my pair ED9 from this seller :
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Very Much peter123
  
 Any suggestion for an alternative to EDSE?


----------



## gtrx333

ilikeiem said:


> KZ-LP3 is the latest KZ headphone but I don't have it coz I bought Mi headphone instead.
> 
> I have only KZ-LP2.



Are the kz lp2 any good? Reasonable sound and build?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Ed9 is great, probably the best bang for your buck this year


----------



## B9Scrambler

Found a way for me to enjoy the bronze filters! MOAR FILTER!!
  

  
 I added a touch of this porous foam, just enough to avoid covering the ventilation hole. This maintains the airiness I liked, dials back the treble a smidge and smooths it out, and bring back some of the sub-bass I enjoy with the gold filters. Gad damn these things are good!


----------



## smy1

What does the ie80 sound like


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Found a way for me to enjoy the bronze filters! MOAR FILTER!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Way to go...KZ modder....more pics pls on where and how much foam is put into..cheers


----------



## altrunox

eisenbricher said:


> Great. I wonder how it pits against Tenores.
> 
> btw now ED9 is <$10 with shipping
> 
> ...


 
 Ey thanks! Super nice price!
 Got one!
  
 Well the seller is pretty new, and all his products have 50% os discount, wondering if it's a fake seller...


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Way to go...KZ modder....more pics pls on where and how much foam is put into..cheers




I'll see what I can put up tomorrow. My camera kinda sucks though, lol.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> I'll see what I can put up tomorrow. My camera kinda sucks though, lol.




Maybe later me will get ED9 ...so its good info for reference ..cheers mate

The force is strong with ED9 ..hahahaaa


----------



## ilikeiem

wokei said:


> Maybe later me will get ED9 ...so its good info for reference ..cheers mate
> 
> The force is strong with ED9 ..hahahaaa


 
  
 Brother Wokei, Which one do you prefer?   
  
 On the left side of the picture, it's KZ-ED9.
 On the right hand side, it's TUNA-ED9.


----------



## ilikeiem

gtrx333 said:


> Are the kz lp2 any good? Reasonable sound and build?


 
 Yes, of course.  It's good.


----------



## Wokei

ilikeiem said:


> Brother Wokei, Which one do you prefer?
> 
> On the left side of the picture, it's KZ-ED9.
> On the right hand side, it's TUNA-ED9.




Do they sound the same .....me did check with Tuna store ..the seller told me its still KZ ..

Personally me prefer the right one in term of packaging .......smaller footprint ..btw all me IEM are kept in zipper case after outta box ...cheers


----------



## Wokei

ilikeiem said:


> Yes, of course.  It's good.




Totally agreed ....superb built quality ...here is mine after some spray mod ...



Up for sale ....seldom used ....though shipping might be a problem and costly for outside Malaysia ...any Malaysian interested :mad:


----------



## Psxed

The mailman just came and gave me a package with a KZ ED9 in it. I ordered it for $12,73 at this seller http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6641327698.html?orderId=67069302889200 and it took 11 days to arrive in the Netherlands. This was faster then i thought! Still waiting for my KZ ATE that i ordered one day later. My mp3 player is still charging so i havent heard them yet.. 
  
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11109447/kzed9/2015-05-16%2009.49.10.jpg
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11109447/kzed9/2015-05-16%2009.50.28.jpg
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11109447/kzed9/2015-05-16%2009.50.42.jpg
  
 edit: removed img tags, seems i have no permission to post photos direct..


----------



## EISENbricher

psxed said:


> The mailman just came and gave me a package with a KZ ED9 in it. I ordered it for $12,73 at this seller http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6641327698.html?orderId=67069302889200 and it took 11 days to arrive in the Netherlands. This was faster then i thought! Still waiting for my KZ ATE that i ordered one day later. My mp3 player is still charging so i havent heard them yet..
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11109447/kzed9/2015-05-16%2009.49.10.jpg
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11109447/kzed9/2015-05-16%2009.50.28.jpg
> ...


 
 Nice, they look great!


----------



## Psxed

Couldn't wait and plugged them in my iPhone. First impression, wow. I mostly listen to post-hardcore, metalcore and 80's metal. I like the sound signature better then my Shure SE215. The mids and highs seem alot more clear. It's a bit heavy on the bass side for my taste, probably gonna lower it a bit on the equalizer. Going to use these on my portable setup for now. Maybe the KZ ATE will replace these eventually, time will tell lol.


----------



## AlecR

I'm starting to wonder whether the ATE seller has actually dispatched our orders...


----------



## CoiL

depends who from where ordered. I didn`t order ATE from the same seller as most of ppl here ordered. 
  
 Edit: I ordered from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-new-arrival-KZ-ATE-sports-earphone-in-ear-bass-HiFi-portable/32334277693.html ...without mic. Here is tracking info:

  



psxed said:


> Couldn't wait and plugged them in my iPhone. First impression, wow. I mostly listen to post-hardcore, metalcore and 80's metal. I like the sound signature better then my Shure SE215. The mids and highs seem alot more clear. It's a bit heavy on the bass side for my taste, probably gonna lower it a bit on the equalizer. Going to use these on my portable setup for now. Maybe the KZ ATE will replace these eventually, time will tell lol.


 
 You`re getting my hopes high. I really hope the shape and weight won`t be an issue for me


----------



## Psxed

I just checked my account. Placed an order at may 9th and they were shipped out yesterday with a tracking number. Can't really complain since i've only payed about 10$ for them. Just saw they shipped out the one with a mic, that sucks. Maybe i'll use them for my iphone then.


----------



## Psxed

coil said:


> depends who from where ordered. I didn`t order ATE from the same seller as most of ppl here ordered.
> 
> Edit: I ordered from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-new-arrival-KZ-ATE-sports-earphone-in-ear-bass-HiFi-portable/32334277693.html ...without mic. Here is tracking info:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've only had them in while sitting at my desk lol. But they don't really feel heavy and they fit great in my ears. The last really cheap IEMs i ordered were the Awei es800i and after an hour they gave me alot of pressure in my ear canal. Didn't really like the sound of those and they were heavy as hell.


----------



## EarTips

*kz ate at US $11.22*
 Store with *98.6%*  Positive feedback
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brand-New-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-headset-HIFI-music-Earphone-Headphone-Metal-Super/32348791765.html
  
*kz ate at US $11.59  *
 Store with *97.1%*  Positive feedback
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-In-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Headsets-Super/32347673939.html


----------



## AlecR

ATEs just turned up! No tracking info at all, completely out of the blue!


----------



## Shadowsora

eartips said:


> *kz ate at US $11.22*
> Store with *98.6%*  Positive feedback
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brand-New-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-headset-HIFI-music-Earphone-Headphone-Metal-Super/32348791765.html
> 
> ...


 
 I ordered my ED9 without packaging(they say when it's without packaging for less cost) from the 1st store you mentioned, i haven't got them yet but they respond fast and they know English quite well so you can communicate with them unlike many Aliexpress stores.
 They sent the product quite quickly as my tracking number suggests it left china 3 days after i ordered it(including export customs etc etc) so i guess it's on it's way here.
 I can't vouch that the product i will receive won't be a potato instead of ED9 BUT until now the customer service is one of the best i have encountered, they responded very fast and with nice answers.
 I think they are good .


----------



## AlecR

Uh oh, the cable on one of the earphones seems very loose. It's supposed to be locked into the earphone but will twist easily.
  
 Sound is very bassy!


----------



## Shadowsora

alecr said:


> Uh oh, the cable on one of the earphones seems very loose. It's supposed to be locked into the earphone but will twist easily.
> 
> Sound is very bassy!


 
 Hmmm sad to know but i guess it's not a big deal of a problem though(glue?), now audio wise i am not a fan of bass BUT i was expecting this, usually "sports" iems are bassy.
 Is the bass fast and punchy or "full body" type as i prefer to call it?


----------



## AlecR

It's perhaps a hybrid between the two? For tracks that are naturally bass-oriented, e.g. EDM, dubstep, you get a constant bass oomph all the way through, but for less bassy tracks, you get the low-end emphasised so it's more audible than non-bassy IEMs but it's not distracting.


----------



## chavez

alecr said:


> It's perhaps a hybrid between the two? For tracks that are naturally bass-oriented, e.g. EDM, dubstep, you get a constant bass oomph all the way through, but for less bassy tracks, you get the low-end emphasised so it's more audible than non-bassy IEMs but it's not distracting.


 
 Pictures?


----------



## AlecR

Pictures as requested:
  

  

  

  

  
 Fixed the loose cable problem with a bit of glue, BTW.


----------



## sodesuka

The nozzle is long, I like it  Do you have ED9 to compare it?


----------



## AlecR

No hasn't turned up yet. I was actually really impressed with the delivery time of this one: exactly a week by China Post to the UK.
  
 Tracking information was useless and gave no idea of when it might arrive. It said something about Langley, which is a UK location but it's miles away from me so I had no idea they were arriving today.
  
 They do sound good, with lots of good bass and the isolation seems good too. The included Comply clone tips are surprisingly good: they mould nicely to the ear and provide good isolation. The other silicone tips are very uncomfortable however.


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> No hasn't turned up yet. I was actually really impressed with the delivery time of this one: exactly a week by China Post to the UK.
> 
> Tracking information was useless and gave no idea of when it might arrive. It said something about Langley, which is a UK location but it's miles away from me so I had no idea they were arriving today.
> 
> They do sound good, with lots of good bass and the isolation seems good too. The included Comply clone tips are surprisingly good: they mould nicely to the ear and provide good isolation. The other silicone tips are very uncomfortable however.


 
 Good, you are the first one to receive ATE here! I was wondering about the bronze beads shown in product images everywhere. What are those?


----------



## AlecR

They came in this nice (?) box too:
  

  
  
 I thought these had a microphone and remote but it looks like I ordered the wrong model. Can't complain for £6.


----------



## AlecR

Hmm I think my ATE might have challenge imbalance issues. The left earphone seems to be bassier and more defined than the right. I'll need more time to confirm this though.


----------



## CoiL

alecr said:


> Pictures as requested:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Did You get less bassy sound with other tips than foams? Which ones give least bass? And another thing - is there filter material inside nozzles? How about removing it and making sound brighter/clearer?


----------



## AlecR

The nozzles don't look to be easily removable so I won't be removing them I am afraid.
  
 The Sony Hybrid tips don't seem to go too well with these and the included, non-foam tips are very hard and uncomfortable.


----------



## gtrx333

alecr said:


> The nozzles don't look to be easily removable so I won't be removing them I am afraid.
> 
> The Sony Hybrid tips don't seem to go too well with these and the included, non-foam tips are very hard and uncomfortable.


 
 The nozzle seems similar to the carbo tenore?


----------



## EarTips

shadowsora said:


> I ordered my ED9 without packaging(they say when it's without packaging for less cost) from the 1st store you mentioned, i haven't got them yet but they respond fast and they know English quite well so you can communicate with them unlike many Aliexpress stores.
> They sent the product quite quickly as my tracking number suggests it left china 3 days after i ordered it(including export customs etc etc) so i guess it's on it's way here.
> I can't vouch that the product i will receive won't be a potato instead of ED9 BUT until now the customer service is one of the best i have encountered, they responded very fast and with nice answers.
> I think they are good .


 

 Thanks


----------



## ilikeiem

alecr said:


> Hmm I think my ATE might have challenge imbalance issues. The left earphone seems to be bassier and more defined than the right. I'll need more time to confirm this though.


 
 My ATEs are perfect.  Make sure you have good seal on both left and right ears. Is your left ear smaller than your right ear?


----------



## yangian

Any comment/comparison on ATE?


----------



## AlecR

I've ordered quite a lot of items from China and the ones that go via Shenzhen seem to arrive slower than those who go via Guangzhou.


----------



## hoshiyomi

Seeing how ATE are quite bassy I jumped on ED9, but I am very new to this Aliexpress business...
  
 Can anyone tell me if it is absolutely necessary to have your credit card on file with Alipay? Or would it be possible to pay on a one by one basis?
  
 Going by the Alipay registration page it seems to want my date of birth and ID number...etc
 I don't feel too comfortable giving them all that, unless it's absolutely necessary.
  
 Or perhaps there are better / safer means to pay?


----------



## AlecR

I do it on an order-by-order basis because Alipay doesn't seem to be available in the UK. Works just fine, just giving my debit card number each time.


----------



## hoshiyomi

alecr said:


> I do it on an order-by-order basis because Alipay doesn't seem to be available in the UK. Works just fine, just giving my debit card number each time.


 

 Thanks for the answer!
  
 Now the waiting game starts.


----------



## AlecR

So I've got the KZ ED9, ATE and R1 on the way/with me, so which other KZ IEMs should I get? ED? ED2? I want a variety! Microphone and remotes are a bonus!


----------



## Hisoundfi

alecr said:


> So I've got the KZ ED9, ATE and R1 on the way/with me, so which other KZ IEMs should I get? ED? ED2? I want a variety! Microphone and remotes are a bonus!


KZ ED Special Edition


----------



## Hisoundfi

alecr said:


> So I've got the KZ ED9, ATE and R1 on the way/with me, so which other KZ IEMs should I get? ED? ED2? I want a variety! Microphone and remotes are a bonus!


KZ DT3


----------



## Hisoundfi

alecr said:


> So I've got the KZ ED9, ATE and R1 on the way/with me, so which other KZ IEMs should I get? ED? ED2? I want a variety! Microphone and remotes are a bonus!


KZ R3


----------



## Wokei

alecr said:


> So I've got the KZ ED9, ATE and R1 on the way/with me, so which other KZ IEMs should I get? ED? ED2? I want a variety! Microphone and remotes are a bonus!






KZ ANV



KZ R3


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> So I've got the KZ ED9, ATE and R1 on the way/with me, so which other KZ IEMs should I get? ED? ED2? I want a variety! Microphone and remotes are a bonus!


. ED8m too... Has a very peculiar sound. Very very good for EDM and symphonies.


----------



## sodesuka

Stuffed some cotton in ED9's dull filter and the sound became the polar opposite with no treble and overly warm bass lol (though still not hard hitting as the shiny filter). I also put a thin piece of cotton in the shiny filter and I think it tames the treble slightly, making it just right.
  
 This is fun haha.


----------



## AlecR

Is the ED2 the same as the ED Special Edition?


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> alecr said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm I think my ATE might have challenge imbalance issues. The left earphone seems to be bassier and more defined than the right. I'll need more time to confirm this though.
> ...


 

 Wait? You also have ATE`s in Your hand? Did I miss Your comments about ATE or You just haven`t posted proper comparison to other KZ`s and Piston 2/3. Haven`t kept eye on this thread properly lately.


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> Is the ED2 the same as the ED Special Edition?


 
 Most probably yes. They look same but the filters installed on them are different (as it seems). If you check pics the ED2 come with gray filters and EDSE come with red. It's safer bet to go for EDSE IMO.


----------



## AlecR

Got a link to a good seller?


----------



## jj69

ilikeiem said:


> I prefer red filter.


 
  
 Exactly how does the sound of the red filter differ from the sound of the brass filter?


----------



## AlecR

These look just like the ED SE? http://goo.gl/Bu8L1y


----------



## nilupulss

what is the aliexpress mobile only deal.it only show when i use the app.


----------



## nilupulss

oh i thought kz special edition's model number is ed2.so i orderd ed2.are they sound same? now i feel pretty bad.


----------



## igorpadrao

nilupulss said:


> what is the aliexpress mobile only deal.it only show when i use the app.


 
 The Ali Express is promoting its app, so the buyer gains a little extra discount when buying by the mobile app.


----------



## igorpadrao

There is any official webpage for the KZ products?


----------



## EISENbricher

nilupulss said:


> oh i thought kz special edition's model number is ed2.so i orderd ed2.are they sound same? now i feel pretty bad.


 
 I've not seen comparing both. I think no one in this thread owns ED2 as well as EDSE. Correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, the filter grills do look different and I have asked KZ staff 2 times and both times they said that they do indeed sound different. But what kind of difference is that, is yet to be known.
  


alecr said:


> Got a link to a good seller?


 
 This is KZ's official store. EDSE reasonably cheap here, though you can find better prices too on Ali : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
  


igorpadrao said:


> There is any official webpage for the KZ products?


 
 There is. This is their official website : http://www.kzearphone.com/English/
  
 and their official shop on AliExpress : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152


----------



## NiftyNicholas

igorpadrao said:


> There is any official webpage for the KZ products?


 
 This is KZ's flag ship store on TaoBao 淘宝. It's all in Chinese though...
  
 http://kzyingyin.tmall.com/shop/view_shop.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.5.o8Uwbj&user_number_id=2455086256
  
 Cheers!


----------



## jj69

Anyone know where to get the KZ LP2?  It looks like it's not available from the Amazon sellers.  Also, how much does the LP2 usually go for?


----------



## AlecR

The foam tips included with the ATE are really good: very comfortable and conform nicely. I'm trying to find another pair.
  
 Does anybody know what the "Comply" tips from AliExpress are like?


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Wait? You also have ATE`s in Your hand? Did I miss Your comments about ATE or You just haven`t posted proper comparison to other KZ`s and Piston 2/3. Haven`t kept eye on this thread properly lately.


 
 My ATEs are at my home.  Now I'm on my vacation trip.  So I didn't post any photos or comments yet.


----------



## Shadowsora

alecr said:


> The foam tips included with the ATE are really good: very comfortable and conform nicely. I'm trying to find another pair.
> 
> Does anybody know what the "Comply" tips from AliExpress are like?


 
 So except the problem you had with the cable how is your overall build quality impressions? Cable and housing(I am really curious and impatient to wait for them to arrive :X).
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## ilikeiem

alecr said:


> The foam tips included with the ATE are really good: very comfortable and conform nicely. I'm trying to find another pair.
> 
> *Does anybody know what the "Comply" tips from AliExpress are like?*


 
  
 You can buy them from Mr. Tony (Tennmak Technology)
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/6pcs-3pairs-Comply-T100-T400-memory-ear-foam-eartips-for-in-ear-earphone-earbud-headset/1183804_32303315259.html
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/6pcs-3pairs-Comply-memory-foam-ear-tips-eartips-for-in-ear-earphone-earbud-top-quality/32303927462.html


----------



## ilikeiem

jj69 said:


> Anyone know where to get the KZ LP2?  It looks like it's not available from the Amazon sellers.  Also, how much does the LP2 usually go for?


 
 $50 USD for LP2. You can buy it from taobao.


----------



## AlecR

ilikeiem said:


> You can buy them from Mr. Tony (Tennmak Technology)
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/6pcs-3pairs-Comply-T100-T400-memory-ear-foam-eartips-for-in-ear-earphone-earbud-headset/1183804_32303315259.html
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/6pcs-3pairs-Comply-memory-foam-ear-tips-eartips-for-in-ear-earphone-earbud-top-quality/32303927462.html


 
  
 Thanks man. How close are they in quality to the original Comply tips?


----------



## igorpadrao

A Fast off-topic question: do microphones interfere in sound quality of the IEMs?


----------



## gtrx333

alecr said:


> Thanks man. How close are they in quality to the original Comply tips?




I think they are like the ones that come with vsonic iems, which iirc people dont care for. But if they do the job then i wouldnt complain because here, comply tips are like £15-20 for a set of 3. Which is too expensive considering the ones that came with my m6 pro only lasted a month before starting to fall to pieces.


----------



## gtrx333

igorpadrao said:


> A Fast off-topic question: do microphones interfere in sound quality of the IEMs?


 
 Can do but shouldn't be noticeable. The bigger concern is cable strain around the mic, more likely to break the cable


----------



## mebaali

Just got my KZED9 delivered few minutes back. OOTB with shiny filters on, these sounds a wee bit brighter for my ears (on par with EDSE's treble). But the bass seems to be far better than the one in EDSE.

  
  
 Source used: Laptop, Foobar2K, 320 kbps MP3


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> Just got my KZED9 delivered few minutes back. OOTB with shiny filters on, these sounds a wee bit brighter for my ears (on par with EDSE's treble). But the bass seems to be far better than the one in EDSE.
> 
> 
> 
> Source used: Laptop, Foobar2K, 320 kbps MP3


 
 Great!, Mine are still sitting at Kolkata : (    https://www.17track.net/en/result/post.shtml?nums=RF021947554CN
 How much time did it take for yours to get cleared from Kolkata? 
  
 Btw are you using WASAPI with Foobar2k??


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> Great!, Mine are still sitting at Kolkata : (    https://www.17track.net/en/result/post.shtml?nums=RF021947554CN
> How much time did it take for yours to get cleared from Kolkata?
> 
> Btw are you using WASAPI with Foobar2k??


 
  
 Yep, using WASAPI for few years now!
  
 My package reached Kolkata last Friday, got cleared on Saturday morning and I received it this morning. It's surely a record time for me from china-post (and Kolkata customs)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I hope yours too should reach you in a day or two


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> Yep, using WASAPI for few years now!
> 
> My package reached Kolkata last Friday, got cleared on Saturday morning and I received it this morning. It's surely a record time for me from china-post (and Kolkata customs)
> 
> ...


 
 WASAPI is great! Makes a big difference on my Sound Blaster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hmm... hoping that


----------



## sodesuka

By the way, for those who have ATE, is the shell made of plastic or metal?


----------



## ilikeiem

sodesuka said:


> By the way, for those who have ATE, is the shell made of plastic or metal?


 
 plastic


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> plastic


 

 how about ATE? Any review?


----------



## sodesuka

ilikeiem said:


> plastic


 

 Thanks! I guess I'll wait for ATE reviews and the said new-in-pipeline KZ IEM first.


----------



## Ira Delphic

ilikeiem said:


> alecr said:
> 
> 
> > The foam tips included with the ATE are really good: very comfortable and conform nicely. I'm trying to find another pair.
> ...


 
  
 Are those the real Comply or counterfeit?


----------



## CoiL

Got my GR today... short story:
 1) By SQ they are disappointment (black filters make them too bassy/muddy and red filters with hole make them too thin sounding with no body/punch in sound).
 2) By build quality they are very good. I really like the see-through soft cable (better than EDSE) and probably going to use it to mod my ANV. Filters I`m going to try on ED9. Interesting thing is that I don`t find them heavy at all, ANV feels littlebit heavier and EDSE is much heavier imo.
  
  
 Still waiting for ATE and ED9. Btw, I got new good silicone tips for my small ears/earchannels in red/dark-yellow colour, with large bore, soft silicone. They are basically same as Piston 2.1 smallest tips.


----------



## AlecR

Does anybody happen to know if EMS items get delivered by UPS as I ordered some KZ IEMs and they may be coming by UPS?


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> Does anybody happen to know if EMS items get delivered by UPS as I ordered some KZ IEMs and they may be coming by UPS?


 
 I think that's they way it is. Here EMS is carried by India Post when it arrives in country. Although not by general service, but the priority one.


----------



## AlecR

In that case, that's brilliant! I will be using Yoybuy again as UPS deliver super fast and it was about £1!


----------



## AlecR

Great price here for the KZ ED SE BTW. http://goo.gl/dsl7jL


----------



## bduncan5

coil said:


> Got my GR today... short story:
> 1) By SQ they are disappointment (black filters make them too bassy/muddy and red filters with hole make them too thin sounding with no body/punch in sound).
> 2) By build quality they are very good. I really like the see-through soft cable (better than EDSE) and probably going to use it to mod my ANV. Filters I`m going to try on ED9. Interesting thing is that I don`t find them heavy at all, ANV feels littlebit heavier and EDSE is much heavier imo.
> 
> ...


 

 When your ED9's arrive try the brass filters on your GR's. I like that combo with foam tips or silcone


----------



## Hisoundfi

KZ ATE is a boss of a IEM. Think ATH-IM50-IM70 good, and with a better and non removable cable with counterweights and no memory wire. 

It's a winner. It's going to split votes with the ED9


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ATE is a boss of a IEM. Think ATH-IM50-IM70 good, and with a better and non removable cable with counterweights and no memory wire.
> 
> It's a winner. It's going to split votes with the ED9


 
 Wow then that under $10 deal was a bomb, glad to been part of ATE bandwagon : ) 
 I never have had any sports earphone before, these will be unique that way.


----------



## yangian

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ATE is a boss of a IEM. Think ATH-IM50-IM70 good, and with a better and non removable cable with counterweights and no memory wire.
> 
> It's a winner. It's going to split votes with the ED9


 

 Could you give a comparison of ATE and ed9?


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ATE is a boss of a IEM. Think ATH-IM50-IM70 good, and with a better and non removable cable with counterweights and no memory wire.
> 
> It's a winner. It's going to split votes with the ED9


 
  
 How is it "boss of IEM" exactly? Please describe more accurately sound signature and bass/mids/highs. Does bass bleed into mids? Mids are neutral or pushed foward? Highs are smooth or sparkly, too harsh?
 So far I have seen comments, that it is quite bassy, laid back relaxed sound with good soundstage. I personally hope it isn`t too bassy/bloated. If it is possible, then comparison with EDSE or ED9 would be great. Also would be nice if You point out what source gear You use to do that comparison.
  


bduncan5 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Got my GR today... short story:
> ...


 

 Thanks for information! Certainly will try it.


----------



## playmate

Could anyone compare the ATE with the Vsonic GR07? Are these ATE really 100$ IEM killers?


----------



## CoiL

I really doubt it. Don`t get so enthusiastic by only few comments with basically no detailed information 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Of course it would be great if they reach to 100$ SQ level but no need to hype until many ppl have confirmed them really great and better than ED9 / EDSE / HAVI B3 Pro2 etc. IEM`s.


----------



## Ruben123

Not many more people own the ed9 compared to the ate-s but rest of your point is valid. Too many iems get hyped these days.


----------



## Shadowsora

The hyping is real, but for this price range i believe they are worth the hype.
 Now i am waiting to test them, i am pretty sure they tried to match ATH IM50 sound signature.


----------



## mebaali

With just over 10 hours of burn-in, I am unable to differentiate the sound quality between ED9,  ES, and EDSE using same tips (JVC Spiral Dots large) and same source of audio. I am no aural expert but to my ears all these three sounds pretty much same (ES and EDSE are over 6 months old with loads of usage).


----------



## yangian

mebaali said:


> With just over 10 hours of burn-in, I am unable to differentiate the sound quality between ED9,  ES, and EDSE using same tips (JVC Spiral Dots large) and same source of audio. I am no aural expert but to my ears all these three sounds pretty much same (ES and EDSE are over 6 months old with loads of usage).


 

 Peter123 said ED9 with copper filter will be better than EDSE and with the other filter, it's pretty th same as EDSE


----------



## knightskid

Just placed order for the translucent ate from the kz aliexpress official store at $9.87.


----------



## peter123

mebaali said:


> With just over 10 hours of burn-in, I am unable to differentiate the sound quality between ED9,  ES, and EDSE using same tips (JVC Spiral Dots large) and same source of audio. I am no aural expert but to my ears all these three sounds pretty much same (ES and EDSE are over 6 months old with loads of usage).




I'm kind of surpised that you find the ES and EDSE identical sounding, that's not how I hear them.

I still think that ED9 with gold filters sound very similar to the EDSE and is just ok but with the bronze filters they certainly keep up with most sub $50 and a lot of sub $100 IEM's that I own. 

If someone expect these to kill everything under $100 I'd say those people are either very unexperienced or very selective about what they like (this is just how I see it, ymmv). Personally I hate the term "kills everything under $X", especially under $100 since it's so many excellent IEM's in that price bracket but probably none that does everything perfect. 

I think I said in another thread that I'd pick the B3's and Titan's over the ED9 but I'd pick the ED9 over the SE215 for example...... 

Once again ymmv!


----------



## mebaali

yangian said:


> Peter123 said ED9 with copper filter will be better than EDSE and with the other filter, it's pretty th same as EDSE



 


I tried brass filter but it produces very thin sound signature with virtually no bass for my liking. : (


----------



## Hisoundfi

yangian said:


> Could you give a comparison of ATE and ed9?


KZ ED9 has two filters. One (gold filter) is a warmer sounding V-signature that works well with modern genres of music. 

The other (bronze filter) is a more linear, detailed, and balanced tuning that is almost midrange/upper midrange forward. This is currently my favorite filter and sounds great with warmer sources. 

The ATE sounds somewhere in between the two tunings of the ed9.


----------



## mebaali

@peter123 - From the beginning I had a liking for ES over EDSE. Contrary to many other headfiers' experience, i felt my ES produced better bass response with less harsh trebles than EDSE did. I just could not tolerate the harshness of treble in EDSE. Now with prolonged use and tip rolling has made both these earphones sounding virtually similar to my ears


----------



## yangian

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ED9 has two filters. One (gold filter) is a warmer sounding V-signature that works well with modern genres of music.
> 
> The other (bronze filter) is a more linear, detailed, and balanced tuning that is almost midrange/upper midrange forward. This is currently my favorite filter and sounds great with warmer sources.
> 
> The ATE sounds somewhere in between the two tunings of the ed9.


 

 How about separation, soundstage, wideth, deapth, and spacial presentation? Thanks!


----------



## Hisoundfi

yangian said:


> I want to share of a few of thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can't go into details right now, I'm at work. I'll report back this afternoon


----------



## Wokei

hisoundfi said:


> KZ ED9 has two filters. One (gold filter) is a warmer sounding V-signature that works well with modern genres of music.
> 
> The other (bronze filter) is a more linear, detailed, and balanced tuning that is almost midrange/upper midrange forward. This is currently my favorite filter and sounds great with warmer sources.
> 
> The ATE sounds somewhere in between the two tunings of the ed9.




I did demo the ED9 today from a friend ...and totally agreed with your impression though not heard ATE ....but from the short time me had them on .....its one of the best tuning from KZ .......defintely better than EDSE .....much more better clarity and separation and also me find them very tip dependent whether they be shiny or brass filter .

Me fav tip for brass filter is wide bore single flange ....more airier and more forward sounding mid range and vocal 

While for the shiny filter ...me tried them double flange tip .....bring down the sub bass and more better treble response but at the expense of smaller soundstage 

Imho ...they are worth lots more than 10$ and could easily sell for 50 -75$ ...

peter123....dont you think ED9 cable and jack bear resemblance to Vsonic AN16 ?


----------



## yangian

mebaali said:


> @peter123 - From the beginning I had a liking for ES over EDSE. Contrary to many other headfiers' experience, i felt my ES produced better bass response with less harsh trebles than EDSE did. I just could not tolerate the harshness of treble in EDSE. Now with prolonged use and tip rolling has made both these earphones sounding virtually similar to my ears


 
  


shadowsora said:


> The hyping is real, but for this price range i believe they are worth the hype.
> Now i am waiting to test them, i am pretty sure they tried to match ATH IM50 sound signature.


 
 I think people do hype on almost every phone here. On the other hand, I do think KZ deserves the hype at their prices. I believe many headphones are hyped mainly by their value. Second, thought I only have EDSE and ED8, I didn't find obvious difference. They are almost the same. I would say the difference might be around 5%. For a new factory, with such short time, they keep releasing new priduct. I don't expect them to bring something that stunned people.


----------



## yangian

wokei said:


> I did demo the ED9 today from a friend ...and totally agreed with your impression though not heard ATE ....but from the short time me had them on .....its one of the best tuning from KZ .......defintely better than EDSE .....*much more better clarity and separation* and also me find them very tip dependent whether they be shiny or brass filter .
> 
> Me fav tip for brass filter is wide bore single flange ....more airier and more forward sounding mid range and vocal
> 
> ...


 
 Are you hyping? Which phone do you think to have a similar clarity and separation with ed9 and which one to EDSE?


----------



## peter123

mebaali said:


> @peter123 - From the beginning I had a liking for ES over EDSE. Contrary to many other headfiers' experience, i felt my ES produced better bass response with less harsh trebles than EDSE did. I just could not tolerate the harshness of treble in EDSE. Now with prolonged use and tip rolling has made both these earphones sounding virtually similar to my ears




Interesting, I need to do more listening to them both 



wokei said:


> I did demo the ED9 today from a friend ...and totally agreed with your impression though not heard ATE ....but from the short time me had them on .....its one of the best tuning from KZ .......defintely better than EDSE .....much more better clarity and separation and also me find them very tip dependent whether they be shiny or brass filter .
> 
> Me fav tip for brass filter is wide bore single flange ....more airier and more forward sounding mid range and vocal
> 
> ...




You're spot on as usual. I also prefer them with wide bore single flange tips with both filters. I still prefer them with the bronze filters with quite some margin. 

Yes, the cable and the jack are similar but not identical to the AN16/GR06 ones. 

I really miss a chin slider on the ED9


----------



## playmate

I ordered the ATE in the transparent black color. I've waited for full review, but seeing that they were 60% off from the official seller (the 10 $ price as again) I went for it. I'm not sure what to expect from these, but they do look sexy. I hope they are at least comparable to my Vsonic GR99.


----------



## yangian

mebaali said:


> @peter123 - From the beginning I had a liking for ES over EDSE. Contrary to many other headfiers' experience, i felt my ES produced better bass response with less harsh trebles than EDSE did. I just could not tolerate the harshness of treble in EDSE. Now with prolonged use and tip rolling has made both these earphones sounding virtually similar to my ears


 

 What do you use to play with EDSE? To my ears, EDSE is a little bit dark, resolution of high is really not good at all. Low and mid is good enough. No harshness.


----------



## Wokei

yangian said:


> Are you hyping? Which phone do you think to have a similar clarity and separation with ed9 and which one to EDSE?




Hyping ....Noooooooo........which part of me post are you refering to hype ...me comparison is based on KZ past models ( which me am very familiar and owned) and based on my opinion ....me only had them on for like an hour ...so any comparison with other IEM as to clarity and separation as to ED9 is best answered by others who actually bought them.
As for EDSE ....they to me are better version of Philips SHE3580 .




peter123 said:


> Interesting, I need to do more listening to them both
> You're spot on as usual. I also prefer them with wide bore single flange tips with both filters. I still prefer them with the bronze filters with quite some margin.
> 
> Yes, the cable and the jack are similar but not identical to the AN16/GR06 ones.
> ...




Yes ...chin slider is must in me book...also me think the weakest link in ED9 is the Y JOINT ...look like kinda iffy to me ...


----------



## joemama

knightskid said:


> Just placed order for the translucent ate from the kz aliexpress official store at $9.87.


 

 These look sexy. Ok, just bought another one as the original is 2 days away from my mailbox. This thread is worse than crack.


----------



## yangian

@peter123 What do you think on clarity and separation of ED9 to EDSE? How much better? Better? Obviously better? Much better? Thanks!


----------



## EISENbricher

joemama said:


> These look sexy. Ok, just bought another one as the original is 2 days away from my mailbox. *This thread is worse than crack.*


 
 True words had never been spoken. All know KZ is the lowest costing decent sounding things but these 'cheapest' things eating most of my audio gear budget lol


----------



## Shadowsora

Wow transparent housings, why you do this KZ why!?
 These guys are getting addiction to the next level but i must constrain myself.


----------



## RedJohn456

Anyone have a link to the official KZ store? Any idea on how long it might take to ship to Canada? The ATE and ED9 both sounds promising


----------



## knightskid

redjohn456 said:


> Anyone have a link to the official KZ store? Any idea on how long it might take to ship to Canada? The ATE and ED9 both sounds promising




http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?tracelog=ae-app-ios-sharefor-shkmail


----------



## jj69

redjohn456 said:


> Anyone have a link to the official KZ store? Any idea on how long it might take to ship to Canada? The ATE and ED9 both sounds promising


 
  
 Store #1358152
  
 Looks like ATE are on sale again for $9.87.
  
 Is ATE available WITHOUT microphone?  Are the cable removable?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Out of what I have, here is my top 10 KZ to date from favorite to least favorite:

KZ ED9
KZ ATE
KZ ED SE
KZ DT3
KZ GR
KZ R3
KZ ED3
KZ ES
KZ Micro Ring
KZ ANV

BOOM


----------



## Trapok

hisoundfi said:


> Out of what I have, here is my top 10 KZ to date from favorite to least favorite:
> 
> KZ ED9
> KZ ATE
> ...


 

 Compared to your profil you have changed order why?
 And the ED8 disappears...


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> Out of what I have, here is my top 10 KZ to date from favorite to least favorite:
> 
> KZ ED9
> KZ ATE
> ...


 
 Nice list! I still need to catch all pokemons (what!?). With KZ launching new products so fast, my well planned roadmap of getting all the KZ IEMs eventually got ruined xD


----------



## Hisoundfi

trapok said:


> Compared to your profil you have changed order why?
> And the ED8 disappears...


It was going off the top of my head, I'm willing to bet my profile ranking is close though. I haven't looked at that thing in a while. I will update that or this tonight. 

I have never resented purchasing any KZ IEM. They all bring something unique or stylish to the table every time. 

The two recent releases are the best though IMHO. 

*One thing I wish all KZ products had chin sliders/cable cinch built into their cables. It will make over ear use much better. *

Cheers


----------



## Trapok

hisoundfi said:


> I have never resented purchasing any KZ IEM. They all bring something unique or stylish to the table every time.
> 
> The two recent releases are the best though IMHO.


 
 +1
 If i sum my budgets on KZ i wonder which high end iem i could buy 
 Bought the ATE today, (for *$9.87* can't resist).


----------



## skeewiff

I´ve just bought the ATE too, I hope it is a good buy.


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> Out of what I have, here is my top 10 KZ to date from favorite to least favorite:
> 
> KZ ED9
> KZ ATE
> ...


 
  
 Interesting you like the ES more than the Micro Ring. Also where's the R1? I'd put that near the top of the list in terms of SQ and comfort/fit. The ED8 is not in the top 10. I agree with that ranking. Batman calling Robin!


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> hisoundfi said:
> 
> 
> > KZ ATE is a boss of a IEM. Think ATH-IM50-IM70 good, and with a better and non removable cable with counterweights and no memory wire.
> ...


 
  
 I just joined the ATE club too! ED9 - arrived pretty quick! Sounds vert good but heavy cylinder of metal like the KZ ES. Falls out of my ear canals when running or walking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have another IEM to listing to while sitting around, but not active.


----------



## altrunox

ira delphic said:


> I just joined the ATE club too! ED9 - arrived pretty quick! Sounds vert good but heavy cylinder of metal like the KZ ES. Falls out of my ear canals when running or walking
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had the same problem with the ES and ED 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW, there's a ATE with clear case, I'll get this one


----------



## Hisoundfi

ira delphic said:


> I just joined the ATE club too! ED9 - arrived pretty quick! Sounds vert good but heavy cylinder of metal like the KZ ES. Falls out of my ear canals when running or walking
> 
> I have another IEM to listing to while sitting around, but not active.


use a bigger tip, or go over the ear, or both


----------



## bhazard

5 minutes in, and the ATE is fantastic for $10. It arrived quick via ePacket too, less than 2 weeks.
  
 Ditch the memory foam tips, or widen the nozzle on them with an xacto knife or so. The small nozzle doesn't allow treble detail to pass through. Using the ED9 red core tips sound much better. Basically anything with a wider nozzle will sound much better.
  
 These are nicely warm and musical. Good separation and soundstage. I can see the IM50 comparisons. Money well spent... excellent value.


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> 5 minutes in, and the ATE is fantastic for $10. It arrived quick via ePacket too, less than 2 weeks.
> 
> Ditch the memory foam tips, or widen the nozzle on them with an xacto knife or so. The small nozzle doesn't allow treble detail to pass through. Using the ED9 red core tips sound much better. Basically anything with a wider nozzle will sound much better.
> 
> These are nicely warm and musical. Good separation and soundstage. I can see the IM50 comparisons. Money well spent... excellent value.


Ya, I hear ya, great separation and midrange is fantastic. Bass only gets tighter the more you listen to it


----------



## Ira Delphic

altrunox said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I just joined the ATE club too! ED9 - arrived pretty quick! Sounds vert good but heavy cylinder of metal like the KZ ES. Falls out of my ear canals when running or walking
> ...


 
  
  Clear case ATE - that's what I got!


----------



## Ira Delphic

hisoundfi said:


> ira delphic said:
> 
> 
> > I just joined the ATE club too! ED9 - arrived pretty quick! Sounds vert good but heavy cylinder of metal like the KZ ES. Falls out of my ear canals when running or walking
> ...


 
  
 I have no problem with EDSE, Piston 2's, Gr07 and other IEM's of_ reasonable _weight. But...the SQ is really really good! Best treble of any Z I've tried. Z is moving forward in regard to the sound!


----------



## nilupulss

I am still waiting for edse,ed9 and ate.yesterday i brought headphone called maxell amp-b for 20$.any one got these,how about these bass and sound?


----------



## ilikeiem

A lot of questions about ATE, is it plastic or metal? Does it has detachable cable? So I decide to take some photographs for you guys.
  
  

  
  
 Very beautiful good looking IEM, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  

  
  
 More close up images of MIC version

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
  
  
 Eartips and ear guide, I can confirm that foam tips are high quality. 
  

  
  

  
 Things KZ needs to improve.  Need improvement on plastic molding process and painting. Foam tips can be scratched by the nozzle.
  

  
  
  

  
 In summary, ATE is very good product. Isolation is far better than many IEMs out there. *No hyping* involved I am stating what it is.  If you don't own it. * Just buy it *


----------



## Wokei

Nice pics ilikeiem.......very helpful.....its a very beautiful IEM...FOSHO


----------



## B9Scrambler

Great pics!! Thank you very much. Can't wait for mine to arrive!


----------



## EarTips

@ilikeiem
 Thanks for the nice pictures


----------



## EISENbricher

Nice work @ilikeiem .
 Still the question remains.... are the cables removable?


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Nice work @ilikeiem
> .
> Still the question remains.... are the cables removable?




It's not removeable buddy ....KZ Official store told me ...cheers


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> Out of what I have, here is my top 10 KZ to date from favorite to least favorite:
> 
> KZ ED9
> KZ ATE
> ...


 
 ANV is last? Why?! O_o ANV is best balanced neutral sounding IEM from KZ and better than EDSE... IMHO. ANV is most underrated KZ IEM unfortunately.
 But well, this list is Your subjective taste and opinion. Probably it wont apply to me (if I would have all those).
  
 And still waiting for Your detailed ATE impressions about soundstage, separation etc. against ED9 / EDSE. And don`t forget to mention what source gear You used to do comparison.
 But seems by Your and some other few comments that ATE will be exactly what I`m looking for... I hope so.
  
 Also waiting for ED9 and ATE to arrive...
 Dammit! I also want that black translucent with no mic version.... damn You KZ!


----------



## Suneth

trapok said:


> +1
> If i sum my budgets on KZ i wonder which high end iem i could buy
> Bought the ATE today, (for *$9.87* can't resist).


 

 Where are you guys buying for 10$? it's 25$ and i can't find ED9 on official KZ store either


----------



## gtrx333

Where is this clear case ate i keep hearing?


----------



## Wokei

suneth said:


> Where are you guys buying for 10$? it's 25$ and i can't find ED9 on official KZ store either




Here here ..let me help you spend some money 

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152

Its 25$ with 16$ coupon ..so its 9.87$


----------



## Wokei

gtrx333 said:


> Where is this clear case ate i keep hearing?




Click on the colour or mic version ..you will see the variation from the link me just posted


----------



## Suneth

wokei said:


> Here here ..let me help you spend some money
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
> 
> Its 25$ with 16$ coupon ..so its 9.87$


 

 Ahh yes now i see it  Discount applied at checkout.  Transparent cover looks really nice  and give a expensive look to it


----------



## gtrx333

Ohh, they are nice, maybe better finish than the silver ones if they are unpainted.


----------



## CoiL

Naah, if I like ATE I will anyway make wooden backplates for them (trying to keep myself off from buying 2 more ATE`s)


----------



## Shadowsora

I wish the transparent one were available from the start, anyway i like the silver one too.


----------



## Suneth

Any one concerned about ED9 not available in KZ official store? It's all good and fine as  long as ED9 live upto it's quality but still it's nagging me


----------



## ilikeiem

ira delphic said:


> Are those the real Comply or counterfeit?


 
  
 I don't know whether it's real Comply or not but the quality is very good and you can use them(5mm inner diameter) with KZ-ATE too.


----------



## EISENbricher

I took the poison pill. Ordered clear set of ATE. Already have Silvers on the way lol..... 
 Save me god.


----------



## CoiL

LOL, I think someone should make KZ rehab centre ;D


----------



## chavez

Instead of a rehab center,help a brother out and buy me a pair of ATE.Im drooling ,geez.Reading all the comments and knowing u are completly broke,pretty depressive feeling.


----------



## EISENbricher

Good idea and someone who has mastered the ways of Zen should do that @Wokei senpai.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Naah, if I like ATE I will anyway make wooden backplates for them (trying to keep myself off from buying 2 more ATE`s)


 
  
 I hope sound of transparent black ATE and silver ATE will be the same.


----------



## CoiL

I hope so... bad bad teasing You do! -.-


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I hope sound of transparent black ATE and silver ATE will be the same.


 
 That is another issue, It's not been much time since debates of whether ED8 Red and Blue sound different, were floating around in this thread.... Its still ambiguous.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> That is another issue, It's not been much time since debates of whether ED8 Red and Blue sound different, were floating around in this thread.... Its still ambiguous.


 
  
 Stock eartips that come bundled with ED8(red) and ED8(blue) are not the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  

  
 Do you have dual flange eartips bundled with your ED8(Red)?


----------



## Wokei

chavez said:


> Instead of a rehab center,help a brother out and buy me a pair of ATE.Im drooling ,geez.Reading all the comments and knowing u are completly broke,pretty depressive feeling.


----------



## ilikeiem

chavez said:


> Instead of a rehab center,help a brother out and buy me a pair of ATE.Im drooling ,geez.Reading all the comments and knowing u are completly broke,pretty depressive feeling.


 
  
 Save up today,  you will have better KZ IEM in the future. Trust me


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Good idea and someone who has mastered the ways of Zen should do that @Wokei senpai.


 
  
 Wokei already at Zen level .....muahahahaaaaaa cuz 
  

  
 For those who are just getting into KZ ..you are coming in at a good time ...enjoy the buy and the chase ..muahahhahaaaaa


----------



## Suneth

wokei said:


> Wokei already at Zen level .....muahahahaaaaaa cuz
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ATE or ED9  Can't decide and can't buy both 
 I'm bit skeptical about ED9 because i can't find them on official store


----------



## Wokei

suneth said:


> ATE or ED9  Can't decide and can't buy both
> I'm bit skeptical about ED9 because i can't find them on official store


 
  
 FYi ...me dont have both ....only tried me friend's ED9 for an hour and not heard ATE but also getting some very good praise 
  
 So judging from post here and there .....few who got them are good ..should not be a problem ..cheers mate


----------



## ilikeiem

suneth said:


> ATE or ED9  Can't decide and can't buy both
> I'm bit skeptical about ED9 because i can't find them on official store


 
  
 Sooner or later you will have both.  At this moment you can randomly pick one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 If you like vocal, IEM that you can wear while you were sleeping. You can pick ATE first.


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem, how is ATE compared to Piston 3?


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Stock eartips that come bundled with ED8(red) and ED8(blue) are not the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Those blue eartips I only received with blue version. Well I'm talking about the driver.... If I install similar tips on both I didn't notice distinguishable difference. Maybe I'm less sensitive to that or my source is not so up to the mark.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> ilikeiem, how is ATE compared to Piston 3?


 
  
 They're 2 different beast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 First, you can't wear P3 over the ear. ATE has better isolation. 
  
 ATE focus more on vocal.  P3 is v-shape. 
 Sound resolution is about the same. 
  
 PS. Don't buy P3 at this moment. I will receive "The Voice China" version of P3 very soon. Need to test it first. 
  


eisenbricher said:


> Those blue eartips I only received with blue version. Well I'm talking about the driver.... If I install similar tips on both I didn't notice distinguishable difference. Maybe I'm less sensitive to that or my source is not so up to the mark.


 
  
 Really?  Try to install spiral tips on both, did you hear the different in mid bass?


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ilikeiem, how is ATE compared to Piston 3?
> ...


 
 So, ATE has better(more) mids and littlebit warmer signature? Male vocals have nice "body"?
 And how about soundstage? Which has larger soundstage (width and depth towards front)?
 Getting impatient with all those comments about ATE


----------



## hoshiyomi

http://www.kzearphone.com/html/279805039.html
  
 for those who might be questioning ED9's authenticity because it's not available from the KZ official aliexpress store, I found this link from KZ's Chinese website, which pretty much confirms its status as a new product.


----------



## Shadowsora

If someone has ATH-M50 and KZATE i would like a direct comparison, thanks!\
  
  
  
 EDIT: ATH-IM50, yup thanks for the correction.


----------



## slowpickr

shadowsora said:


> If someone has ATH-M50 and KZATE i would like a direct comparison, thanks!


 

 I believe you meant "ATH-IM50" correct?


----------



## Raphael K

I've jumped in too, ATE.
Guess how ATE makes sound in their Copper driver.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> Out of what I have, here is my top 10 KZ to date from favorite to least favorite:
> 
> KZ ED9
> KZ ATE
> ...


 
 Lmao...we like, for the most part completely different sounds.These are my KZ iems, in order from fav to least fav. I put the ED9 twice since each filter offers a completely different signature.
  
 1. ANV = Micro Ring
 2. ATE
 3. ED3
 4. ED9 (Gold Filter)
 5. EDse
 6. R3
 7. ED9 (Brass Filter, unmodded)
  
 This is why I love KZ stuff. So many different sound sigs that can please pretty much anyone. 
  
 * Edited. Moved the ED9 way down and the ANV/Micro Ring back up to the number 1 spot.


----------



## knightskid

Received my ED9 few days ago and received GR today, the pipe of GR cannot be use on ED9 but the pipe of the ED9 was able to use on GR.


----------



## Wokei

knightskid said:


> Received my ED9 few days ago and received GR today, the pipe of GR cannot be use on ED9 but the pipe of the ED9 was able to use on GR.


 
  
 Me GR was bought last July and did tried them with ED9 ...works both way ...so sorry to hear that ...
  
 Your GR tuning filter ....do they have small ventilation hole in them ?


----------



## knightskid

wokei said:


> Me GR was bought last July and did tried them with ED9 ...works both way ...so sorry to hear that ...
> 
> Your GR tuning filter ....do they have small ventilation hole in them ?


 
 Oh...that is weird. The one i order doesn't comes with box.
 Red have ventilation hole, black doesn't have it.


----------



## Wokei

knightskid said:


> Oh...that is weird. The one i order doesn't comes with box.
> Red have ventilation hole, black doesn't have it.


 
  
 Good ...you got the GR filter with the ventilation hole ....some previous buyer bought but without the ventilation hole ...iirc they sounded not so good without the hole ....
  
 Did check with KZ Official .....there are some batch without the hole but all the new one will have the ventilation hole in them ...do you like GR ..with the black filter ..its just too dark sounding and muddy but with the red ..its pretty good ...cheers
  
 No worry about the box ..its just plain old simple paper box ....woot woot


----------



## Wokei

Pics and post  from The Lab courtesy of @twister6
  
  
 Here are a few KZ eye-candy shots.
  
*KZ ED9:*
  
   
  
   
  
*KZ ATE:*


----------



## knightskid

wokei said:


> Good ...you got the GR filter with the ventilation hole ....some previous buyer bought but without the ventilation hole ...iirc they sounded not so good without the hole ....
> 
> Did check with KZ Official .....there are some batch without the hole but all the new one will have the ventilation hole in them ...do you like GR ..with the black filter ..its just too dark sounding and muddy but with the red ..its pretty good ...cheers
> 
> No worry about the box ..its just plain old simple paper box ....woot woot


 
 Yup...i do like the red filter very much. Am currently waiting for my translucent ATE to reach my place. Hahaha...


----------



## Wokei

knightskid said:


> Yup...i do like the red filter very much. Am currently waiting for my translucent ATE to reach my place. Hahaha...


 
  
 You been warned ...KZ IEM are like crack ...they are very addictive


----------



## yangian

ATE arrived today. This is really a $10 beast! This is really close to IE80!! Soundstage is much larger than EDSE, close to IE80. Sound signature is very close to IE80. All aspects are very close to IE80. Much better than EDSE for symphony. However, I don't think its three frequency ranges, detail, separation are better than EDSE. But it's soudstage and presentation are much better. However, it still cannot catch up IE80. It cannot make my heart jump out as IE80 when I listen to Dvorak's symphony 9. So if you want that feeling that your heart jumped out, spend $200 more to get IE80. Otherwsise, this $10 beast is first choice.
 Moreover, it's really a sport earphones. It's so light!


----------



## CoiL

yangian, what source gear and file format did You use to compare? Do You have mic or without mic version?
 This ATE sounds really promising. First I`ll wait my ATE to arrive but probably I`ll have to order 2 more transparent version without mic too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 KZ IS SICKNESS! BE WARNED!


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> yangian, what source gear and file format did You use to compare? Do You have mic or without mic version?
> This ATE sounds really promising. First I`ll wait my ATE to arrive but probably I`ll have to order 2 more transparent version without mic too
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I use laptop with Music Bee with ASIO mode + Topping NX1 to play flac files. Well, This is open-box listening. I don't know how much it will be improved. Anyway, it's really great for high dynamic symphonies. IE80 is more vivid and beautiful and energetic. But this is only $10!! Mine has no mic.


----------



## CoiL

Nah, laptop isn`t word I was hoping for (+ points for using ASIO and amp though) but well, lets hope Your impressions still count.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> So, ATE has better(more) mids and littlebit warmer signature? Male vocals have nice "body"?
> And how about soundstage? Which has larger soundstage (width and depth towards front)?
> Getting impatient with all those comments about ATE


 
  
 LOL... I think you will get more excited if you can hear it by yourself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Personally I like the sound of P3 more than ATE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It doesn't mean that P3 is better than ATE. Just 2 different sound sig.  ATE is for vocal. Soundstage is large, sound resolution is very good. That's why it's capable of driving the music with high dynamic range.... but In case of symphony, I think ED9 or P3 will be better choice.
  
 YMMV


----------



## cheeto

Damn it, I just got the Piston 3s and M6 Pros last week and I just pulled the trigger on a clear (black?) ATE w/ mic and an ED9. My wallet man! I still have headphones I want to buy next month and at this rate I'll have 10 new different listening devices to choose from by the beginning of summer.


----------



## ilikeiem

cheeto said:


> Damn it, I just got the Piston 3s and M6 Pros last week and I just pulled the trigger on a clear (black?) ATE w/ mic and an ED9. My wallet man! I still have headphones I want to buy next month and at this rate I'll have 10 new different listening devices to choose from by the beginning of summer.


 
 This is great. Welcome to KZ club.  I bet you will buy more and more KZ IEMs in the future.


----------



## lesp4ul

Just ordered transparent black one for just under $10 (free shipping), I'm very curious of the soundsig


----------



## mekicagi

lesp4ul said:


> Just ordered transparent black one for just under $10 (free shipping), I'm very curious of the soundsig




Where did you buy ?
Some link please


----------



## lesp4ul

mekicagi said:


> lesp4ul said:
> 
> 
> > Just ordered transparent black one for just under $10 (free shipping), I'm very curious of the soundsig
> ...




http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html

Use aliexpress app for discount.


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Nah, laptop isn`t word I was hoping for (+ points for using ASIO and amp though) but well, lets hope Your impressions still count.


 

 Better sources do not make it more better. 
  


ilikeiem said:


> LOL... I think you will get more excited if you can hear it by yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, the most important aspect of for me to listen to symphony is the holistic picture. Now I use full headphones as possible as I can to listen to classical/symphonies. Compare to full headphone, soundstage and the overall presentation of an IEM is the most important to me.
 How about soundstage of ED9 vs ATE?


----------



## gtrx333

Finally got the ed9 and ate today. They were waiting at the post office and I didn't even realise it. Well here are some pics of them. There's also a pic of them next to the xiaomi P3 and carbo tenore (the smallest iem i have)
  
  
 .


----------



## yangian

Sound stage of ATE is still relatively obvious less than IE80 and KEF M200 and obvious less vigor than both of them. But at $10, it wins.


----------



## gtrx333

Here are my first impressions (and first mini review of anything): The ate does seem to have more pronounced bass and mids. The treble are a bit flat/recessed. They sound reasonably good although i wish there was a bit more sub-bass like the carbo tenores. It did take quite some burn-in for the Tenores to achieve that sound for me, so I'll give the ate some time. The ED9 though, wow! The amount of detail and clarity those things have is scary; they pretty much beat all my iems bar maybe the RHA Ma750i (in terms of detail and clarity). Very impressed. Both are built very well, on par with my meelectronics but the ED9 has that little edge with it's nice solid metal build.
  
 Edit: Changing from foam to normal tips on the ATE improves sub-bass and treble for me, so i'm pretty content with it.


----------



## yangian

gtrx333 said:


> Here are my first impressions (and first mini review of anything): The ate does seem to have more pronounced bass and mids. The treble are a bit flat/recessed. They sound reasonably good although i wish there was a bit more sub-bass like the carbo tenores. It did take quite some burn-in for the Tenores to achieve that sound for me, so I'll give the ate some time. The ED9 though, wow! The amount of detail and clarity those things have is scary; they pretty much beat all my iems bar maybe the RHA Ma750i (in terms of detail and clarity). Very impressed. Both are built very well, on par with my meelectronics but the ED9 has that little edge with it's nice solid metal build.


 

 For ATE, memory foam worses the treble. Use other tips.


----------



## gtrx333

yangian said:


> For ATE, memory foam worses the treble. Use other tips.


 
 You're right, good shout!


----------



## CoiL

yangian said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Nah, laptop isn`t word I was hoping for (+ points for using ASIO and amp though) but well, lets hope Your impressions still count.
> ...


 
 So, You are saying that if I use my cheap ELE DAC (unmodded) vs Aune T1 vs integrated soundcard vs DX50 in DAC mode with same software output settings and file format I can make no difference between sources using KZ ANV for example?
  
 Sorry, but You must have "dust" in Your ear if You make no difference. There certainly IS difference in SQ and sound signature.
 And for reference I have done A/B blind testing with source selector switch using same headphones and cables. There IS difference in source gear, quite large depending what is being compared.
  
 If You really think source gear makes no difference then... sorry... but You are in wrong forum dealing with wrong things.
  
 For example this is the reason why some ppl don`t think EDSE has littlebit sibilance in vocals and splashy treble, they are using typical smartphones which usually have quite muddy/hazed and warm sound (compared to more expensive and dedicated DAC/DAP`s). Better source = better clarity and detail, more balanced/neutral sound (usually), which will reveal IEM/HP nature certainly better.


----------



## bhazard

Yep, the entire chain matters.
  
 Luckily, the quality of sound on average for components has increased, and the average price has decreased in having a very good sounding audio system.
  
 Any smartphone and a KZ IEM would be a good starting point. Then something like the Geek Out or Aune T1 + Titan One, then something like a $500+ DAC/amp and a Hifiman HE-560....
  
 I personally can't see myself spending a lot anymore, despite having a $1000+ DAC shipping to me at some point in the near future.
  
 $10 IEMs used to get you Skullcandy low end quality. Now it can get you some very enjoyable equipment.


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, there is certain point where getting "better" gear makes no sense (to me at least). Not claiming there isn`t difference towards better SQ.
 Certainly is but price/SQ relation/balance gets really off from some price point. I just can`t see myself spending more than my present modified Aune T1 + Fidelio X1 setup (around 500€ setup). And I really like what I`m hearing, nothing is lacking for my ears in SQ and sound signature.
 The reason I`m in this KZ madness is that I wish to achieve "same" SQ with my modified DX50 and this IEM hoarding is kinda fun hobby too


----------



## AlecR

jj69 said:


> Store #1358152
> 
> Looks like ATE are on sale again for $9.87.
> 
> Is ATE available WITHOUT microphone?  Are the cable removable?


 

 Mine came without a microphone. Cables are not (easily) removable.


----------



## Crazy Sam

I bit the bullet- ED9 is on the way. I hope to post thoughts once it arrives. For now, I guess its time to charge up my old FiiO; haven't listened to IEMs on my setup in a while.
 I'm having a hard time using the China Post website, but USPS listed Status as "accepted" in china as of 5/19. I guess I'm still about a week out (US East)?


----------



## RedTwilight

Wokei Nice pics! How does the sound of the ATE compare to the Havi B3 P1 if I may ask? Thanks!


----------



## Wokei

redtwilight said:


> @Wokei Nice pics! How does the sound of the ATE compare to the Havi B3 P1 if I may ask? Thanks!


 
  
 Me only heard ED9 and not heard of ATE ....just thought the band of brothers here would appreciate the pics
  
 For clarification purpose ...those pics are from the kittchen table top of @twister6


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> So, You are saying that if I use my cheap ELE DAC (unmodded) vs Aune T1 vs integrated soundcard vs DX50 in DAC mode with same software output settings and file format I can make no difference between sources using KZ ANV for example?
> 
> Sorry, but You must have "dust" in Your ear if You make no difference. There certainly IS difference in SQ and sound signature.
> And for reference I have done A/B blind testing with source selector switch using same headphones and cables. There IS difference in source gear, quite large depending what is being compared.
> ...


 

 Sorry, I didn't make it clear. I didn't mean better sources do not improve the SQ. I mean it sounds proportional to sources. It does not like IE80, 800, HD 600 etc., which strongly depend on sources. Though I do not have high end sources, I tested it and I think ATE's potential is not very great.


----------



## RedTwilight

wokei said:


> Me only heard ED9 and not heard of ATE ....just thought the band of brothers here would appreciate the pics
> 
> For clarification purpose ...those pics are from the kittchen table top of @twister6




Oh. Alright haha.. I'll go ask him then~ thinking of getting both ATE and ED9 to supplement the Havi.


----------



## Wokei

redtwilight said:


> Oh. Alright haha.. I'll go ask him then~ thinking of getting both ATE and ED9 to supplement the Havi.


 
  
 Red...for 20$ ....hell yeah ......go for it man


----------



## EISENbricher

bhazard said:


> Yep, the entire chain matters.
> 
> Luckily, the quality of sound on average for components has increased, and the average price has decreased in having a very good sounding audio system.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 
  
 I see that 'Average Smartphone' term is being misinterpreted by some people to the extreme. 'Average smartphones' these days have good DACs, but their major downside is that most don't have powerful output stage. Pair it with a good amp and the sound improves a lot. Someone doubting smartphone SQ should go around and try phones like G3, oneplusOne, S5/S6 + amp and come back.
  
 Well yeah it may still not reach to the level of dedicated setups but that sacrificial slight decrease in SQ comes with some great benefits like convenience and portability to people who go outside. Can't carry a tube amp around, right?
  
 It's amusing how people manage to type long line of source specifications in every post they make and assume that other person only has a smartphone as a music source. Not everyone likes to walk with a placard showing the belongings. Head-fiers know what they are into.


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> +1
> 
> I see that 'Average Smartphone' term is being misinterpreted by some people to the extreme. 'Average smartphones' these days have good DACs, but their major downside is that most don't have powerful output stage. Pair it with a good amp and the sound improves a lot. Someone doubting smartphone SQ should go around and try phones like G3, oneplusOne, S5/S6 + amp and come back.
> 
> Well yeah it may still not reach to the level of dedicated setups but that sacrificial slight decrease in SQ comes with some great benefits like convenience and portability to people who go outside. Can't carry a tube amp around, right?


 
 Couldn't agree more. In my case, OnePlus One though supposed to have a lowly Yamaha DAC does pretty good job with all my IEMs and HPs. In fact, I have found Havis to sound pretty good even without an amp when I couple it with my OPO on 35 percentage volume (this I am comparing against my other sources such as Laptop/PC which is supposed to be more powerful in terms of power source). I feel today's mid to high level smartphones are slowly but steadily catching up to the kinda sound quality that is expected of dedicated portable music players.


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> +1
> 
> I see that 'Average Smartphone' term is being misinterpreted by some people to the extreme. 'Average smartphones' these days have good DACs, but their major downside is that most don't have powerful output stage. Pair it with a good amp and the sound improves a lot. Someone doubting smartphone SQ should go around and try phones like G3, oneplusOne, S5/S6 + amp and come back.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


mebaali said:


> Couldn't agree more. In my case, OnePlus One though supposed to have a lowly Yamaha DAC does pretty good job with all my IEMs and HPs. In fact, I have found Havis to sound pretty good even without an amp when I couple it with my OPO on 35 percentage volume (this I am comparing against my other sources such as Laptop/PC which is supposed to be more powerful in terms of power source). I feel today's mid to high level smartphones are slowly but steadily catching up to the kinda sound quality that is expected of dedicated portable music players.


 
  
 Maybe should run KZ IEM with AK240 and Hugo Chord Amp ....joking LOL
  
 Impressions posted here are impressions and some with minimal headfi branding pedigree gears used ( wont used the word cheap )  should be allowed to post their thoughts here right ? After all ...at the end of the day ...enjoyment of music is what its all about 
  
 Hell ...even me used to have just me 30$ Samsung phone to play music .....does that mean ....those impression dont count ? Some may have bigger wallet to afford better gears ....good for you ....me am sure everybody will strive to have better gears in the future and guys keep on posting even if you are using smartphone or just laptop ...in me book ....it counts...dont let anybody tell you otherwise...peace 
  
 Its a 10$ IEM ......it's not a competition whose impression counts the most and only from those who have expensive gears can post ....me dont think so ...YMMV


----------



## EISENbricher

Exactly, otherwise I'm sure head-fi admins should have banned users to create threads, post opinions without submitting proofs of possession of high end gear. Everyone's opinions should be respected.


----------



## Koolpep

@EISENbricher You can carry a tube amp around - here are two battery operated, portable tube amps. BOOOM!

http://www.elekit.co.jp/material/english_product_html/TU-HP01.php

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/HP-V1.shtml



For the gear discussion: EVERY opinion counts and is as valuable as anyone else's. However, knowing what other kit a person is listening to helps to put things into perspective and context. Same as with what source, amp, dac they listened to and which songs and in which format. It just makes it easier to compare and make the information more valuable for people.

I have a few expensive headphones but I am also a sucker for a great budget deal. Have the EDSE, ED9, just yesterday ordered the ATE, a deal too good to pass on.... The week before I reviewed the Aurisonics ASG-2.5 - a $699 in-ear for a local site. That is the other end of the spectrum.... Its amazing how good really affordable in ears have become. There is still a lot of garbage out there (at any price range) but the EDSE for example are still amazing bang for the buck.

Cheers,
K


----------



## Wokei

@Koolpep ......good post man ....totally agree....cheers


----------



## EarTips

listening to the kz ate ootb now while i'm typing, already liking it...


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Everyone's opinions should be respected.


 
 Exactly! That also includes my opinion and some other users who think same way and have better experience than smartphones and know source gear makes difference. They just have different reference point.
 I was trying to make general point from different angle. Instead I`ve been constantly misinterpret by same members and my point about smartphone source is being taken as "insult". I`m not claiming smartphones to be rubbish but I do have experience with better gear and know the difference. Thing is, when You have had taste of better SQ and gear, You don`t want to take step backwards.


> I see that 'Average Smartphone' term is being misinterpreted by some people to the extreme.


 
 By who? Once again I was trying to make point why some ppl here have different opinion about some IEM`s. Instead You take it personally like Your smartphone "is rubbish" and start to flame again. Please stop it and don`t be so egoistic.


> 'Average smartphones' these days have good DACs, but their major downside is that most don't have powerful output stage.


 
 Yes, they have good DAC`s but nothing more. Dedicated DAP`s DAC chips usually step a quite big leap over them. Not to mention only DAC chip but also amp portion.


> Someone doubting smartphone SQ should go around and try phones like G3, oneplusOne, S5/S6 + amp and come back.


 
 I could say same thing to You - go around and "taste" SQ of DAP`s like DX50 / DX90 / AK100 etc. and come back. Not to mention differences between more expensive desktop systems.


> Well yeah it may still not reach to the level of dedicated setups but that sacrificial slight decrease in SQ comes with some great benefits like convenience and portability to people who go outside. Can't carry a tube amp around, right?


 
 Slight decrease? How do You know how big is the difference? For example desktop like I have vs. Samsung Galaxy S5/S6? Thing is You don`t. I haven`t made direct A/B testing but I have tried enough smartphones to claim them being inferior (once again, not claiming them being rubbish).
 And once again You rip things out of context. Do I carry my Aune T1 around? LOL no. But I do carry around my DX50 (modded) which I have also blindly A/B compared against Aune T1 and differences are almost none.


> It's amusing how people manage to type long line of source specifications in every post they make and assume that other person only has a smartphone as a music source.


 
 Assume? Read my posts, I mostly ask about what source gear is being used.


> ...should be allowed to post their thoughts here right ?


 


> ....those impression dont count ?


 
 I and noone hasn`t forbidden to post impressions. Of course those impressions also count but mainly for those who use similar level SQ gear.
 I also can post my impressions and thoughts about different source gear, can`t I?

  


> ...it's not a competition whose impression counts the most and only from those who have expensive gears can post ....me dont think so...
> After all ...at the end of the day ...enjoyment of music is what its all about


 
 100% agree! Just some ppl get very defensive and take every other opinion as "insult" to their maybe cheaper and not dedicated gear.


> Everyone's opinions should be respected.


 
 Exactly! So, please respect also my opinion and thoughts. Instead You seem to constantly take my comments and impressions as attack&insult towards You and start to bring up flame around it. Please stop it.
  


> *EVERY opinion counts and is as valuable as anyone else's.* *knowing what other kit a person is listening to helps to put things into perspective and context. Same as with what source, amp, dac they listened to and which songs and in which format. It just makes it easier to compare and make the information more valuable for people.*


 
 WORD!
  
  
 Now please lets go back into KZ madness!


----------



## AlecR

My ED9s still haven't turned up


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> My ED9s still haven't turned up


 
 Mine are arriving today, along with a new DAP, Xduoo X2  
 Double cheers for me haha
  
 Hope your gear turns up soon.


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Mine are arriving today, along with a new DAP, Xduoo X2
> Double cheers for me haha
> 
> Hope your gear turns up soon.


 
  
 Finally we can stop hearing you complaining about India Post ....just messin with yer buddy ...LOL
  
 Congrats ....Double congrats ..woot woot .....be interesting to hear how ED9 pair with X2


----------



## AlecR

eisenbricher said:


> Mine are arriving today, along with a new DAP, Xduoo X2
> Double cheers for me haha
> 
> Hope your gear turns up soon.


 
  
 How do you know they're turning up today?
  
 The tracking works fine until the item reaches the UK and then it just stops, _completely_.


----------



## EISENbricher

wokei said:


> Finally we can stop hearing you complaining about India Post ....just messin with yer buddy ...LOL
> 
> Congrats ....Double congrats ..woot woot .....be interesting to hear how ED9 pair with X2


 
 Well even I don't know who's culprit here... Because stuff that SG or HK post carries always arrive super quick. Maybe it's the China Post or just customs department holding up parcels with Chinese 'From' address. 
  
 Thanks! I hope this will be a nice and cost efficient upgrade of my gear.


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> How do you know they're turning up today?
> 
> The tracking works fine until the item reaches the UK and then it just stops, _completely_.


 
 Wow really? My tracking numbers on 17Track always show information till the parcel reaches to nearby local post office. In India it's carried by India Govt post and I am also able to track it using India Post tracking website after it lands in India.


----------



## Wokei

alecr said:


> How do you know they're turning up today?
> 
> The tracking works fine until the item reaches the UK and then it just stops, _completely_.


 
  
 Alex ...most of me KZ via China Post .....most of it trackable via 17track.com iirc ...also once it reaches Wokeiland ....track it thru your UK Post .....works for me 
  
 Hope it helps 
  
 Edit ....You type faster than me ....LOL....@EISENbricher


----------



## AlecR

wokei said:


> Alex ...most of me KZ via China Post .....most of it trackable via 17track.com iirc ...also once it reaches Wokeiland ....track it thru your UK Post .....works for me
> 
> Hope it helps
> 
> Edit ....You type faster than me ....LOL....@EISENbricher


 
  
 Not trying to be rude but my name is *Alec* not Alex


----------



## Wokei

alecr said:


> Not trying to be rude but my name is *Alec* not Alex


 
 Ooooops ...my bad Alec


----------



## AlecR

ED9s and R1s turned up today.
  
 ED9s are actually quite nicely balanced, with a bit of oomph in the low-end. R1s are very bassy. Good isolation on both.


----------



## AlecR

The ED9s come with two filters, a bassier set and a more neutral set. Very good value IMO!


----------



## EISENbricher

I received my ED9 as well, hands down this is the best sound I've listened from KZ. I may end up liking it more than Tenores, from initial impressions. Currently using Gold filters with stock tips, will try more combinations and post pics when I get back to home. There is sheer amount of details and nice soundstage for sure.
  
 XDuoo X2 also arrived but I'll unbox it at home since I'm still in office.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> I received my ED9 as well, hands down this is the best sound I've listened from KZ. I may end up liking it more than Tenores, from initial impressions. Currently using Gold filters with stock tips, will try more combinations and post pics when I get back to home. There is sheer amount of details and nice soundstage for sure.
> 
> XDuoo X2 also arrived but I'll unbox it at home since I'm still in office.


 
 ED9 + xDuoo X2, this combo rocks!   It's very good for anyone who like bright sound.


----------



## AlecR

How do the ED9s compare to the ED SEs? I've got the ED SEs coming too.
  
 What's the link to the official KZ store again?


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> I received my ED9 as well, hands down this is the best sound I've listened from KZ. I may end up liking it more than Tenores, from initial impressions. Currently using Gold filters with stock tips, will try more combinations and post pics when I get back to home. There is sheer amount of details and nice soundstage for sure.
> 
> XDuoo X2 also arrived but I'll unbox it at home since I'm still in office.




Awesome! Glad they arrived


----------



## Grayson73

gtrx333 said:


> Here are my first impressions (and first mini review of anything): The ate does seem to have more pronounced bass and mids. The treble are a bit flat/recessed. They sound reasonably good although i wish there was a bit more sub-bass like the carbo tenores. It did take quite some burn-in for the Tenores to achieve that sound for me, so I'll give the ate some time. The ED9 though, wow! The amount of detail and clarity those things have is scary; they pretty much beat all my iems bar maybe the RHA Ma750i (in terms of detail and clarity). Very impressed. Both are built very well, on par with my meelectronics but the ED9 has that little edge with it's nice solid metal build.
> 
> Edit: Changing from foam to normal tips on the ATE improves sub-bass and treble for me, so i'm pretty content with it.


 
 Love the thumping sub bass of the Tenore and the airy, intimate vocals.  So out of all your IEMs, which are your favorites?


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> Exactly, otherwise I'm sure head-fi admins should have banned users to create threads, post opinions without submitting proofs of possession of high end gear. Everyone's *opinions should be respected*.


 
  
 I emphatically disagree. Some peoples opinions matter more than others due to their track record of opinion. Hisoundfi is a respected forum member for example. His opinion matters more than others and deserves higher respect.  I have complete disregard and disrespect for a handful of the people here and on the Chinese / Asian Brand Info Thread. One or two were banned for a period due to shilling with multiple user names. _But that doesn't mean it's acceptable in any way to be hostile to people_, except in special circumstances.
  
 There are a handful of folks here that I suspect are hyping gear in return for some kind of a kickback. Free gear, or whatever. I'll continue to ignore their opinions. And certainly not respect what they have to share.


----------



## Grayson73

eisenbricher said:


> I received my ED9 as well, hands down this is the best sound I've listened from KZ. I may end up liking it more than Tenores, from initial impressions. Currently using Gold filters with stock tips, will try more combinations and post pics when I get back to home. There is sheer amount of details and nice soundstage for sure.
> 
> XDuoo X2 also arrived but I'll unbox it at home since I'm still in office.


 
 Uh oh, if you like them more than Tenore, I may have to bite!


----------



## gtrx333

grayson73 said:


> Love the thumping sub bass of the Tenore and the airy, intimate vocals.  So out of all your IEMs, which are your favorites?


 
 Well prior to getting the KZ iems, my 3 most used iems were the FAD Heaven IV, ZA Tenore, and Melec M6 Pro.
  
 The M6 Pro i use mainly when running as they are perfect for that and sound reasonably good.
  
 The Tenore I keep in my bag and use when studying/working outside the home, I love their sound and they also have that cool factor.
  
 The FAD Heaven IV I use at home with my laptop - I wouldn't recommend these to most as I find they are not good all rounders. They seem to have a mid forward emphasis that is good for instrumentals and some vocals, but can overbear the other frequencies. I do enjoy them with slow, simple music, live music and jazz. More complex music they just sound congested. In comparison, the RHA I would say are more proficient but I cannot get comfortable fit with them.
  
 So where do the KZ iems fit? TBH I think the ed9 could replace the MA750i or Heaven IV and I wouldn't mind too much. In fact I see them as a bit of a mix of the two; the sound of the RHA with the shape/comfort of the Heaven IV. Im not sure if it as well the ATE could replace the Tenore although that will require more time and burn-in. The KZ ate I think could replace the m6 pro; sounds as good and is much cheaper with slightly worse durability (no replaceable cable and worse cable strain).
  
 The pistons 3 have a great fit and finish but with regards to sound, they have become a bit irrelevant especially compared to the KZ iems
  
*TLDR*: I don't have one favourite iem but I highly rate the ED9 and think the ATE does well as a sport headphone. I'll still probably listen to the Tenores and Heaven IVs as they offer slightly different sounds. 
  
 I'm looking forward to how these all sound when I receive my Kickstarter MIYO DAC.


----------



## peter123

ira delphic said:


> I emphatically disagree. Some peoples opinions matter more than others due to their track record of opinion. Hisoundfi is a respected forum member for example. His opinion matters more than others and deserves higher respect.  I have complete disregard and disrespect for a handful of the people here and on the Chinese / Asian Brand Info Thread. One or two were banned for a period due to shilling with multiple user names. _But that doesn't mean it's acceptable in any way to be hostile to people_, except in special circumstances.
> 
> There are a handful of folks here that I suspect are hyping gear in return for some kind of a kickback. Free gear, or whatever. I'll continue to ignore their opinions. And certainly not respect what they have to share.




Really? I'd say that everyone's opinion should be respected but it's up to each individual to decide who's opinion is more valuable for him/her.

That's just my opinion but I'm pro democracy as well so what do I know....


----------



## yangian

Folks, I wonder how much detailed of ED9 vs ATE? I just found ATE lacks details of tremble. Of course that's compared to IE80 or M200. I don't know if it can be improved after burning in. I just doubt since EDSE also have a bas resolution of tremble.
 How about ED9? many said it's clear and detailed. I wonder how much better than ATE? Also someone said Ed9 is better for symphony. I like the soundstage of ATE. But it obviously lacks details and vigor. Compared to IE80 and M200, I just feel ATE trivial and unenthusiastical. So how about Ed9? How about its detail to ATE? How about its soundstage to ATE? How about its energy to ATE?
 Thanks!


----------



## gtrx333

yangian said:


> Folks, I wonder how much detailed of ED9 vs ATE? I just found ATE lacks details of tremble. Of course that's compared to IE80 or M200. I don't know if it can be improved after burning in. I just doubt since EDSE also have a bas resolution of tremble.
> How about ED9? many said it's clear and detailed. I wonder how much better than ATE? Also someone said Ed9 is better for symphony. I like the soundstage of ATE. But it obviously lacks details and vigor. Compared to IE80 and M200, I just feel ATE trivial and unenthusiastical. So how about Ed9? How about its detail to ATE? How about its soundstage to ATE? How about its energy to ATE?
> Thanks!


 
 I would say the ED9 has a fair bit/significantly more detailed treble than the ate. Off the top of my head, i'm not sure the ate has more detailed treble than even the tenores. My most detailed and bright iems are the RHA MA750i and I find the ED9 comparable to that.


----------



## satansmutt

The ED9 are very bright with sharp detail in the treble and comparisons to the RHA MA750i is spot on, just try listening to some saxaphone/jazz on the ED9 and see what I mean the high notes from the sax are almost ear piercing


----------



## yangian

gtrx333 said:


> I would say the ED9 has a fair bit/significantly more detailed treble than the ate. Off the top of my head, i'm not sure the ate has more detailed treble than even the tenores. My most detailed and bright iems are the RHA MA750i and I find the ED9 comparable to that.


 
  


satansmutt said:


> The ED9 are very bright with sharp detail in the treble and comparisons to the RHA MA750i is spot on, just try listening to some saxaphone/jazz on the ED9 and see what I mean the high notes from the sax are almost ear piercing


 

 Ok. Thanks. But I don't think bright is equal to high frequency resolution. I don't like harsh tremble. Somehow I cannot endure 8320's tremble. Actually, too much harsh would destroy high resolution.


----------



## mebaali

After 30 hours of usage i feel my ED9's lows have become a bit more tighter than what it was OOTB but the treble is still little too hot for my liking. There is this presence of prominent Ssssness (sibilant?) while listening to certain songs/genres.


----------



## Hisoundfi

After burn-in, the ed9 has plenty bass with the bronze filters. 

With a warm source and Sony hybrid tips the ed9 is a beautiful beast in terms of sound quality


----------



## mebaali

I will have to try bronze filter ( have not used except for first few minutes) to see how different ED9 sounds with it now.


----------



## gtrx333

yangian said:


> Ok. Thanks. But I don't think bright is equal to high frequency resolution. I don't like harsh tremble. Somehow I cannot endure 8320's tremble. Actually, too much harsh would destroy high resolution.




I dont remember the 8320 being harsh but then again i felt as though there may have been QC issues with it as i swear that one ear was ever so slightly quite compared to the other. The ED9 is bright but so far there hasnt been any moments that i found the treble ear-piercing. My recommendation would be to let all your concerns go and give them a try, for the price they are definitely worth a try.


----------



## bhazard

My Bronze filters have a "channel imbalance". One sounds stronger than the other bass wise and throws off everything. I swapped the filters from L to R thinking it would be the IEM and not the filters, but the filters are the cause. Very distracting.


----------



## Hisoundfi

bhazard said:


> My Bronze filters have a "channel imbalance". One sounds stronger than the other bass wise and throws off everything. I swapped the filters from L to R thinking it would be the IEM and not the filters, but the filters are the cause. Very distracting.


That's unfortunate. 

They're so cheap, it might be worth it to pick up another pair just to experience the bronze filters. I wouldn't say it, but they are that good IMHO. They make metal and rock sound amazing.


----------



## Grayson73

Which is better for pop music?  ED9 or ATE?


----------



## AlecR

I would say ED9.


----------



## EISENbricher

bhazard said:


> My Bronze filters have a "channel imbalance". One sounds stronger than the other bass wise and throws off everything. I swapped the filters from L to R thinking it would be the IEM and not the filters, but the filters are the cause. Very distracting.



Because of this... maybe



I noticed that the white filter on one of my bronze came off little bit. Just pressed it and it got stuck in place properly. Try it...

That filter(?) covers the breathing hole from inside. If you have one placed properly and one off, it makes sense that the sound will be imbalanced.


----------



## sodesuka

What the, my nozzles don't have those filters, they're blank all the way. o_O 
I wonder if that's why I'm hearing it way more differently than what some people have stated.


----------



## Shadowsora

All this talk about DACs/AMPs made me jealous, sitting here with my PCM2704 Based 3$ dac/onboards and smartphone.
 >.<


----------



## EISENbricher

sodesuka said:


> What the, my nozzles don't have those filters, they're blank all the way. o_O
> I wonder if that's why I'm hearing it way more differently than what some people have stated.


 
 Wow... now this is sth new. I got my ED9 from Tuna store. But it came in original KZ box pack. What abt you???


----------



## sodesuka

eisenbricher said:


> Wow... now this is sth new. I got my ED9 from Tuna store. But it came in original KZ box pack. What abt you???



 
Got one from Tuna too, but it came with Tuna packaging (no hard case/box). No wonder it took way longer for you, but the trade off seems worth it. 

Now I might need to order another, or maybe just wait for the one KZ is currently cooking. Oh well, no more Tuna for me at least.


----------



## EISENbricher

sodesuka said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Wow... now this is sth new. I got my ED9 from Tuna store. But it came in original KZ box pack. What abt you???
> ...


 
 Hmm... makes sense. They surely do have multiple things in pipeline. If you love Gold filters more then no worries. Brass sound is balanced from what I can figure out.


----------



## satansmutt

I got my KZ ED9s from Aliexpress seller High Quality Electronic Products The gold tip has a black filter in it but the brass one is empty


----------



## ilikeiem

shadowsora said:


> All this talk about DACs/AMPs made me jealous, sitting here with my PCM2704 Based 3$ dac/onboards and smartphone.
> >.<


 
  
 PCM2704 is not that bad.  All you need are music files that have headroom margin of at least 2dBFS.  Trust me, sound quality will be good.


----------



## peter123

satansmutt said:


> I got my KZ ED9s from Aliexpress seller High Quality Electronic Products The gold tip has a black filter in it but the brass one is empty




I got my pair from the same place, I'll check what the filters look like when I'm back home later tonigh.


----------



## gtrx333

Here are pics of the filters, the dull ones are empty but have a silver/white plate on the side which corresponds with the breathing hole as indicated by the arrows. The shiny ones have a black filter in them


----------



## satansmutt

gtrx333 said:


> Here are pics of the filters, the dull ones are empty but have a silver/white plate on the side which corresponds with the breathing hole as indicated by the arrows. The shiny ones have a black filter in them


 
  
  
 That's what mine look like


----------



## gtrx333

Here's a good jazz album if anyone wants to see what their kz is capable of:


----------



## ilikeiem

I use following tracks to test my KZ-ATE. Get impressive sound quality for only $9.87  
 Feel so good... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_iQRO5BdCM

  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO9RzrhYR-I


----------



## yangian

How about ED9 vs  8320 on clear, detail, bass, imaging, soudstage? Thanks.


----------



## jj69

gtrx333 said:


> Here are pics of the filters, the dull ones are empty but have a silver/white plate on the side which corresponds with the breathing hole as indicated by the arrows. The shiny ones have a black filter in them


 
  
 Mine are the same. Bronze filters totally empty, with ventilation hole in the side.  Purchased from "High Quality Electronic Products." 

 Which dealer is selling the ones with the filters? Do they have ventilation holes?  I wonder which is "correct."

 In fact, I find it odd that the KZ Official Store on AliEpress doesn't have the ED9 listed at all.


----------



## jj69

Wait.  Now that I look at them, I don't thinking EISENbricher was referring to filters in the traditional sense, but rather the round white thing covering the inside of the ventilation holes. 
  
 If so, mine do have the white "ventilation hole covers," and they appear to be installed correctly.


----------



## hoshiyomi

Asked the official store about ed9 and they replied saying these will be sold through them, not sure what holding them up.


----------



## EISENbricher

jj69 said:


> Wait.  Now that I look at them, I don't thinking EISENbricher was referring to filters in the traditional sense, but rather the round white thing covering the inside of the ventilation holes.
> 
> If so, mine do have the white "ventilation hole covers," and they appear to be installed correctly.



Good. Not having those will remove much of tbe bass.


----------



## RedTwilight

jj69 said:


> Mine are the same. Bronze filters totally empty, with ventilation hole in the side.  Purchased from "High Quality Electronic Products."
> 
> 
> Which dealer is selling the ones with the filters? Do they have ventilation holes?  I wonder which is "correct."
> ...


 



hoshiyomi said:


> Asked the official store about ed9 and they replied saying these will be sold through them, not sure what holding them up.




Hm I was wondering about that too. Would prefer to ship out the ed9 and ate from the same seller, even better that they're official. Any word on when the stock will come in?


----------



## EISENbricher

A preety fun finding, i removed nozzles from ED9 and tried inserting earphone directly in ear and guess what, it seals very good. Well this might be because my ear canal shape is compatible with ED9 shape, but I am able to use ED9 without any nozzle, or tip, with a decent seal, lol. 

Sound this way is very near to Bronze filter sound.


----------



## Thurien

Ok guys so I have got the EDSE, what other KZ's should I get, I want about 5 max and they shouldn't be much more than 10 bucks each. Give me your top 5!


----------



## lesp4ul

thurien said:


> Ok guys so I have got the EDSE, what other KZ's should I get, I want about 5 max and they shouldn't be much more than 10 bucks each. Give me your top 5!




ATE and wait discount for ED9


----------



## Wokei

thurien said:


> Ok guys so I have got the EDSE, what other KZ's should I get, I want about 5 max and they shouldn't be much more than 10 bucks each. Give me your top 5!


 
  
 What kind of sound sig you looking for ?
  
 ED9
 ATE 
 ANV
 R3
 CM9


----------



## ilikeiem

thurien said:


> Ok guys so I have got the EDSE, what other KZ's should I get, I want about 5 max and they shouldn't be much more than 10 bucks each. Give me your top 5!


 
 Top 5 from each category, or top 5 of your liking? For the example, KZ-RS1 is good for basshead but if you like KZ-EDSE you're gonna hate KZ-RS1.


----------



## Suneth

Bought KZ ATE and a hard case. let's hope they will come soon


----------



## CoiL

Got my ED9. First impressions with DX50 (SU 1.3.3 @ FLAC/IIR off/CPU default + FC caps):
  
 *shiny golden nozzles:
 good "mainstream" sound signature, littlebit V-shaped, bass littlebit too boomy which destroys microdetails in it, good smooth highs with no piercing harshness or sibilance. Great soundstage. These nozzles are probably great for EDM.
  
 *brass nozzles: better balanced sound, bass not boomy anymore and microdetails in it are back, highs might be littlebit sharp with some music but there`s no such SSSsss sibilance in vocals like EDSE has. Great soundstage.
  
 I also tried shiny golden nozzles without black foam filter inside them and boominess went away(almost) and microdetails come back but I`m not sure if I like these better than brass nozzles, they are still somewhat bassier. 
 For comparing I had to use piston 2 smallest tips which gave best seal. The shape of ED9 turns up not to be problem and fits pretty good and lets nicely wear cable over-ear and body doesn`t stick out of ear like EDSE. Weight is also not an issue due to small size. I though they were bigger. Only whining from me goes towards cable - it looks nice and is soft but too rubbery feeling and it has memory. I hope it straightens out soon and goes softer. I would prefer GR or r35 cable on this. Also the Y connection isn`t quite my taste and there`s no slider. Package was nice black box. Great quality soft silicone stock tips (though for my ears piston2 tips gave better seal).
 I think ED9 has very good large soundstage and probably best out of my IEM`s... me like it! Especially because I`m soundstage-junkie 
  
 Long story short - I think this is the best KZ IEM so far. 
 Will leave ED9 playing for 24h (hoping they will get even better) and do other things. 
  
 And still waiting for ATE to arrive...


----------



## EISENbricher

ED9 are good. Been listening to these since yesterday. I tried the ED9 with Gold and Bronze filters, with variety of ear tips (single/double flange, foam and silicone), with different sources (Creative Sound Baster X-fi with Foobar2k + WASAPI, Xduoo X2 , SD800 smartphone), amped with topping NX1 and unamped. 
  
 Some findings are as follows.
  
*Build :*

Shell is very sturdy, entirely made of stainless metal (this is important since front part of ED8m is corroding with greenish residue).
Small in size and would only stick outside of ear if used with longer Bronze filters and/or longer eartips.
Cable has slightly more rubbery feeling than cable of EDSE/ED8, at the same time it feels sturdier. Has moderate cable noise. Overall a good quality cable.
Solid, strain relieved L-jack and Y-split. The joint at earpiece shell is good enough, same as EDSE. These are little vulnerable since if forced these plastic strain reliefs break. This has happened with a friend's EDSE.
Gold filter has a black synthetic sponge inside.
Bronze filter has a breathing hole covered with fabric from inside.
  
*Sound : *

Gold filter offers a V-shaped fun sound.  Most people would like it. However, the V-tuning will hamper micro details and voice range. This is achieved by dampening with a black synthetic filter inside gold filter. IMO this is a very good setup for certain genres of music. EDM and Melodic DM comes to mind.
Bronze filters retain pretty much all of the frequency range produced by driver and presents fairly balanced sound with good micro details.
Bass quantity is higher on Gold filter. Though Bronze offers enough bass along with a bit better quality. Treble is hotter on Bronze filters. Mids are better on Bronze filters.
Soundstage is decent, same or better than ED8's soundstage.
  
*Misc :*

Easy to drive.
Bronze filter is more responsive to changes on the source side (Amping, EQing, etc).
  
*Some pics : *


----------



## CoiL

I would say soundstage is more than just decent. Above average for sure. Quite large imho but I guess source can be limit in case of ED9 soundstage capabilities. 
 One thing more, it`s brass not bronze. Not trying to be smartass but they are different metals


----------



## ilikeiem

Even though ED9 is the best KZ IEM with highest sound resolution and huge soundstage. My top 5 most favorites KZ IEMs are as follows:
  
 $9 ED8m BLUE    >    $13 ED9    >    $10 ATE    >    $12 ANV 2014    >    $8 EDSE 
  
 The correctness of timbre comes first. Resolution, soundstage, detail & clarity, isolation, fit, impedance, weight, durability, price comes later. 
 My source gear is $2,999 USD MacBook Pro with Retina.  Output format = 88200hz, 32bits.
  
 I know your list will be different 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   What’s yours?


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> *The correctness of timbre comes first.* Resolution, soundstage, detail & clarity, isolation, fit, impedance, weight, durability, price comes later.


 
 Actually I think it`s the same way for me too. Although EDSE had great sound I couldn`t enjoy it`s treble due to SSsss sibilance and splashyness in long listening sessions. On the other hand with EDSE bass department was also littlebit lacking.
 I Hope it won`t be the same case with ED9 - it sounds awesome but I suspect that treble sharpness with some music can cause fatigue and I have to use something else.
 In that last case what similar sounding alternative (without treble issue) would You recommend ilikeiem? Piston 3? ATE (which I should receive soon)? Or something else?


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> Even though ED9 is the best KZ IEM with highest sound resolution and huge soundstage. My top 5 most favorites KZ IEMs are as follows:
> 
> $9 ED8m BLUE    >    $13 ED9    >    $10 ATE    >    $12 ANV 2014    >    $8 EDSE
> 
> ...


 
 How about soundstge of ED9 to ATE?


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Even though ED9 is the best KZ IEM with highest sound resolution and huge soundstage. My top 5 most favorites KZ IEMs are as follows:
> 
> $9 ED8m BLUE    >    $13 ED9    >    $10 ATE    >    $12 ANV 2014    >    $8 EDSE
> 
> ...


 
 Agree here... I was wondering where ED8m had been gone, no one has mentioned it lately. Correctness of timbre... couldn't have said better. ED8m IMO has best timbre among KZ. 
  
 I can finalize my list after a bit time since I need more time with ED9. For now (without including ED9) and among my KZ collection the list goes like this.
  

 KZ ED8m (My red, blue sound very similar) > KZ EDSE > KZ ED3 > KZ R1
  
 Well, I have only 4 (5 including ED9) KZs. 
  


> I would say soundstage is more than just decent. Above average for sure. Quite large imho but I guess source can be limit in case of ED9 soundstage capabilities.
> One thing more, it`s brass not bronze. Not trying to be smartass but they are different metals


 
 That's a comparative term. I own Havi B3 Pro 1 which obviously demonstrate bigger soundstage than ED9. Decent is the correct term from my perspective as above decent is what ED8m sounds for me.


----------



## CoiL

> > I would say soundstage is more than just decent. Above average for sure. Quite large imho but I guess source can be limit in case of ED9 soundstage capabilities.
> > One thing more, it`s brass not bronze. Not trying to be smartass but they are different metals
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, ok. I understand.
  
 Btw, I also removed grills from my ED9 gold nozzles and it`s even more better but gotta spend more time to tell if I like it better than brass ones. Atm I still prefer brass ones and I hope with some playtime treble sharpness will smoothen littlebit.
  
 Edit:
 Guys, try gold filter foams inside brass filters (pushed to the bottom of brass filter against grills) and tell what You think of it. I think it almost kills sharpness.
 Maybe I`m wrong and can`t make difference anymore going through all those nozzles, tips and combinations


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Actually I think it`s the same way for me too. Although EDSE had great sound I couldn`t enjoy it`s treble due to SSsss sibilance and splashyness in long listening sessions. On the other hand with EDSE bass department was also littlebit lacking.
> I Hope it won`t be the same case with ED9 - it sounds awesome but I suspect that treble sharpness with some music can cause fatigue and I have to use something else.
> In that last case what similar sounding alternative (without treble issue) would You recommend ilikeiem? Piston 3? ATE (which I should receive soon)? Or something else?


 
 In this case, I think ATE will be better choice than P3.  
  
 You need a very good seal in your ears with P3 otherwise sound tends to be bright. I have to replace stock tips with Comply Foam. It costs a lot. He he 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 After that my P3 is d@mn good.


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for information. Atm I think I have tamed my ED9 treble sharpness enough with that last trick I mentioned but time will tell...


----------



## ilikeiem

yangian said:


> How about soundstge of ED9 to ATE?


 
  
 When the soundstage is large enough I did't pay much attention to it. 
  
 Just a quick test using this video.  I feel that ATE is a bit larger.


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> When the soundstage is large enough I did't pay much attention to it.
> 
> Just a quick test using this video.  I feel that ATE is a bit larger.





 I believe that would be be the case since you mention B3's is obvious bigger than ED9. B3's cannot be bigger than 80 or m200, but ATE's just a little bit small than 80 or m200. So ATE's should be bigger than ED9. Thank you!


----------



## bduncan5

ED9 > ED8 Blue > DT3 > ANV > CM9.      At first I thought the Blue and Red ED8 were different with the red having more upper midrange and treble but they are sounding very similar now with more break in on the red ed8. So far I'm just meh on the ATE; nothing wrong with it just not my preferred sound signature. It has the Audio technica sound profile which I generally like but the soundstage is lacking compared to the ANV and CM9,  IMO. I just love the tone and soundstage of the ED8 blue but the ED9 goes to the top for me because of its ability to place sounds in space and even create a sense of depth to music.


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> yangian said:
> 
> 
> > How about soundstge of ED9 to ATE?
> ...




 -.- ......I WANT MY ATE NOW! -.-
  
 Btw, this last ED9 brass nozzle combination works very good on GR also. Pretty good sounding IEM actually and no harsh/sibilance/sharpness in highs. But GR has different soundstage/imaging from other KZ`s, it`s like Λ-shaped soundstage (listener headspace midpoint in middle of that Λ "triangle" with face towards tip). I think GR would suit for those who like more intimate soundstage/imaging for old school rock for example.​


----------



## ilikeiem

yangian said:


> I believe that would be be the case since *you mention B3's is obvious bigger than ED9*. B3's cannot be bigger than 80 or m200, but ATE's just a little bit small than 80 or m200. So ATE's should be bigger than ED9. Thank you!


 
 EISENbricher said that.


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> EISENbricher said that.


 

 Sorry abou that.


----------



## CoiL

I opened my ED9 right side backplate/grill (it is easy to remove and will go back easily and firmly). No change in sound. Basically...
  
 * it is "fully open" design. That`s why it has so good soundstage and airiness.
   I can see through the driver when looked against light from one end when nozzle and backplate are removed.
  
 * it is possible to change cable.
  
 Will wait for my ATE first but I already see myself modifing these some day in future (cutting off my ANV modifying plans)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Actually this IEM build is strange... covering backplates wholly doesn`t seem to change sound also. I even did simple test and put tape over backplates leaving no gaps. Maybe... maybe bass got just a fraction tighter and less "boomy" but change is basically 0. Soundstage doesn`t seem to be affected at all.
So... whatever happens after the driver towards backplates doesn`t affect sound and can be modified, imo.
 For example this would be nice and easy mod for those who want to make R/L look different, selfmade different backplates for example. Wooden ones would be very nice 
  
 Edit:
 Oh! I forgot there`s a little hole by the side of cable entrance! That`s why there were basically no change in sound!
  
 Edit:
 Ok, second try - put tape over those holes also... I think bass and kicks got fraction tighter but difference again basically 0.
 If someone else bothers to try, then feedback about it is welcome.


----------



## AlecR

The ED9s sound just like the Piston 2 crossed with the Brainwavz Delta. Very impressive.


----------



## CoiL

alecr said:


> The ED9s sound just like the Piston 2 crossed with the Brainwavz Delta. Very impressive.


 
 I don`t know what You mean by that because I haven`t heard BW-Delta but ED9 has less bass and better well balanced sound (not flat but pleasantly V-shaped with good mids) compared to Piston2.1. And of course soundstage is better. Little more out of headspace presentation also.
  
 Edit: 
  
 I really recommend to play with filter material + brass nozzles if ED9 sounds littlebit sharp in highs.
 I think I just found better combination than previous. Because putting gold nozzle foams into brass ones showed good result, I gave a try with Piston2 filter foams from my broken pair and it sounds great - sharpness in highs is gone and bass microdetails still present.


----------



## ilikeiem

I took some photos of filters that can be used with KZ-ED9. Feel free to use them if you want to.
  
 KZ-GR black filter:  Boost bass
  

  
  
  

  
 KZ-GR red filter: make it more balance sound
  

  
  
  

  
 KZ-ED9 shiny filter: V-shape sound
  

  
  
  

  
 KZ-ED9 brass filter: more balance sound


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem, have You already tried brass filters with gold nozzle foams or other foam material? If not, then definitely recommend it! Make sure You push foam down against nozzle grill 
 Atm, I really like what I`m hearing out of my ED9 with brass nozzles + Piston2 foams. With this setting ED9 is new budget-king for me.
  
 Btw, GR filters winding part is littlebit longer and different than ED9 nozzles. I can use them but not much improvement compared to gold nozzles without foam and grill or brass with golden foams.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> ilikeiem, have You already tried brass filters with gold nozzle foams or other foam material? If not, then definitely recommend it! Make sure You push foam down against nozzle grill
> Atm, I really like what I`m hearing out of my ED9 with Piston2 foams. With this setting ED9 is new budget-king for me.


 
 Thanks for your suggestion man. I will try that.


----------



## ilikeiem

I’m curious what's inside KZ-ED9. So I try to open it from the back.   Cable will be easily changed.


----------



## CoiL

So, what cable are You going to use? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven`t decided yet. Want something cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 About "easily changed" I think re-soldering leads will be not so easy and requires proper soldering-iron tip to get close to soldering points.


----------



## mebaali

Somewhat harsh treble that bothered me earlier has subsided to a great extent now. ATM, I can safely say ED9 with shiny filters and JVC spiral dots tips (large) provides me the best listening experience of all the IEMs that I have (on any source). Listening to Mogwai was never this good for me as it is now with ED9


----------



## CoiL

> Somewhat harsh treble that bothered me earlier has subsided to a great extent now.


 
 How long did it take to "burn-in" and get rid of that harsh treble?


----------



## B9Scrambler

*KZ ED9 - Blue Mod*​  
​  
 I've been messing around with these all week, trying different filter materials (various cloths and papers) and tips to optimize my enjoyment of the brass filters. This is what sounds best to my ears.
  
 The blue foam used is very similar to that in the Gold filters, but with smaller pores. The image is pretty poor, but enlarged you should see that it is compressed so it sits just below the filter paper. The filter paper is also slightly pulled back so the vent is now fully open. I find this maintains everything that is so great about the brass filter; soundstage, detail, imaging. In addition, it brings the bass back. It's not as omnipresent as it is in the Gold filters, but quick, punchy, and complimentary to everything else.
  
 The large blue tips that came with the Huawai Honor are perfect with these. The extra tip length seems to help with making the ED9 sound even more spacious. For my ears they also seal very well, and require no fidgeting.
  
 Some of my Favorite Test Tracks:
  
 Supertramp - Rudy
 Adam Freeland - Heel and Toe (Evil Nine Remix)
 Daft Punk - Touch
 Gorillaz - Empire Ants (ft. Little Dragon)
 King Crimson - Starless and Bible Black
  
 While I still love the Micro Ring and ANV, I can't deny that the ED9 is on another level, and a very impressive iem for it's class.


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> How long did it take to "burn-in" and get rid of that harsh treble?


 
 I had Pink noise on at 45% volume for almost 50 hours in the last 3 days.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> *KZ ED9 - Blue Mod*​
> ​
> I've been messing around with these all week, trying different filter materials (various cloths and papers) and tips to optimize my enjoyment of the brass filters. This is what sounds best to my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 By the picture Your ED9 foam mod seems pretty much same as I did with Piston2 foams except I didn`t compress foams below breathing hole, I "filled" whole barrel without compressing foam because in compressed form it took more away I wished. For me it is like confirmation of same mod and result as I did. Although my ED9 bass stayed pretty much same, only slightly more "present", microdetails in bass stayed. Highs not sharp anymore and retained their clarity. 
 Anyway, ED9 owners - this mod is highly recommended!


----------



## TwinACStacks

Wow, Pink Noise. I have a more complicated method of Burn in: I hook them up to a Sony Walkman loaded with 16G of assorted music set the Volume close to max (on a sony it's not terribly loud) throw them in a shoe box covered with Tshirts to dampen the noise Slide them under my bed for about 12 Hrs. at a time, Recharge the Player for 2-4 Hrs. Rinse and repeat for 300 Hours.
  
 Oh, and I do check the process at 50,100,150,200,250 hours.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Shadowsora

ATE arrived in Greece, now i am waiting for the post to deliver them to my home!
 Though i was almost sure ED9/ED3 would arrive first, i am more hyped about ED9 but ATE is more than welcome.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> *KZ ED9 - Blue Mod*​
> ​
> I've been messing around with these all week, trying different filter materials (various cloths and papers) and tips to optimize my enjoyment of the brass filters. This is what sounds best to my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 Will try if I manage to get such kind of foam. Without perfect cut and placement it'll imbalance brass filters. How did you manage to cut is precisely in circular (?) shape?
  
 Currently for me Sony Hybrid tips do quite a good job of mellowing the sound a bit, as per my liking. Brass tip's stock sound is impressive. It's nicely refined and detailed. 
 Gold filters on the other side, remove some micro details. I'll try removing black foam inside, but I hope it'll be reversible. Just because even the stock gold filter is pretty good for some genres.


----------



## CoiL

Stock gold filter will only get better by removing foam, removing grills makes them even better (not much though). And yes, removing foams is easily reversible.
 First try gold nozzle foams inside brass nozzles and if it is not enough, start experimenting with other sizes and materials


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Will try if I manage to get such kind of foam. Without perfect cut and placement it'll imbalance brass filters. How did you manage to cut is precisely in circular (?) shape?
> 
> Currently for me Sony Hybrid tips do quite a good job of mellowing the sound a bit, as per my liking. Brass tip's stock sound is impressive. It's nicely refined and detailed.
> Gold filters on the other side, remove some micro details. I'll try removing black foam inside, but I hope it'll be reversible. Just because even the stock gold filter is pretty good for some genres.




The foam I used came as padding for a mouth guard. My dentist uses what looks like the same stuff. Wraps it in gauze.

I just cut it into little cubes slightly shorter in length than the nozzle, using scissors. When you compress it it spreads and fills in the gaps. As long as they are about the same size and you compress them in the same distance, they'll still be balanced. That's part of the reason it goes to the bottom of the paper filter...keeps it even.


----------



## Wokei

twinacstacks said:


> Wow, Pink Noise. I have a more complicated method of Burn in: I hook them up to a Sony Walkman loaded with 16G of assorted music set the Volume close to max (on a sony it's not terribly loud) throw them in a shoe box covered with Tshirts to dampen the noise Slide them under my bed for about 12 Hrs. at a time, Recharge the Player for 2-4 Hrs. Rinse and repeat for 300 Hours.
> 
> Oh, and I do check the process at 50,100,150,200,250 hours.
> 
> TWIN




300 hrs burn in....LOL


----------



## H20Fidelity

I'm surprised you guys haven't caught on that playing music double speed accurately halves the burn in time. An old trick we've used for a long time.


----------



## B9Scrambler

h20fidelity said:


> I'm surprised you guys haven't caught on that playing music double speed accurately halves the burn in time. An old trick we've used for a long time.




That's brilliant!  will have to try it out. Maybe try quad speed....have burn in completed within a day.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Stock gold filter will only get better by removing foam, removing grills makes them even better (not much though). And yes, removing foams is easily reversible.
> First try gold nozzle foams inside brass nozzles and if it is not enough, start experimenting with other sizes and materials


 
 If reversible then alright, I'm trying it. 
  


b9scrambler said:


> The foam I used came as padding for a mouth guard. My dentist uses what looks like the same stuff. Wraps it in gauze.
> 
> I just cut it into little cubes slightly shorter in length than the nozzle, using scissors. When you compress it it spreads and fills in the gaps. As long as they are about the same size and you compress them in the same distance, they'll still be balanced. That's part of the reason it goes to the bottom of the paper filter...keeps it even.


 
 I see... I'll check what kind of foam I could get, otherwise I'll use cotton stuffing. Should do similar trick. I'm glad that KZ has gone with this design. There's a lot of scope to mod and we see people already are heavily experimenting the mods.
  


h20fidelity said:


> I'm surprised you guys haven't caught on that playing music double speed accurately halves the burn in time. An old trick we've used for a long time.


 
 I double speed pink noise and it turned pinkier D:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



just kidding


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Stock gold filter will only get better by removing foam, removing grills makes them even better (not much though). And yes, removing foams is easily reversible.
> First try gold nozzle foams inside brass nozzles and if it is not enough, start experimenting with other sizes and materials


 
 I think I have to experiment with several materials such as cotton wool, sponge, paper, fabric,  ...   Having a lot of fun


----------



## TwinACStacks

wokei said:


> 300 hrs burn in....LOL


 





 I take no chances Sensei. If I'm gonna Hate or Love something, I'm gonna make absolutely sure It's operating at optimum efficiency. The last thing I loved were the Dunu Titans. The last thing I hated were the Vsonic GR07 Classics.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

h20fidelity said:


> I'm surprised you guys haven't caught on that playing music double speed accurately halves the burn in time. An old trick we've used for a long time.


 





 If you carry them across the International Date line they finish burning in 1 day sooner....
  
 But don't go across the equator or they will burn-in Backwards.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

A Riddle:
  
 A man is out taking his dog for a Walk. The man rides, yet walks.
  
 What is his dog's name?
  








 TWIN


----------



## Wokei

twinacstacks said:


> I take no chances Sensei. If I'm gonna Hate or Love something, I'm gonna make absolutely sure It's operating at optimum efficiency. The last thing I loved were the Dunu Titans. The last thing I hated were the Vsonic GR07 Classics.
> 
> TWIN




Me hear you Maasa Twin ....me in the camp of " what if burn in works" ......so me just plug in the IEM when charging me phone or DAP ......it's all good ....it's my gears .....yes ...me burn dem 

Me all for choice ....burn dem in or not .....  .....use them as you please ...


----------



## TwinACStacks

Exactly Sensei. Even if it doesn't work it can't hurt. It's like believing in a Creator. If You believe and You are wrong No foul. But if You don't believe and You are wrong then you have some 'splaining to do Lucy....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Wokei

​


twinacstacks said:


> Exactly Sensei. Even if it doesn't work it can't hurt. It's like believing in a Creator. If You believe and You are wrong No foul. But if You don't believe and You are wrong then you have some 'splaining to do Lucy....
> 
> TWIN




Just like how we love Ashley Graham .....smiling grinning and palm greasing ...kekekekekeke

KZ ......not here yet ?


----------



## TwinACStacks

wokei said:


> Just like how we love Ashley Graham .....smiling grinning and palm greasing ...kekekekekeke
> 
> KZ ......not here yet ?


 

 No they are just Leaving the Facility in China.(5 days now) Once they Get to San Francisco (1 day air) they can sit up to 3 Days there then It's usually 3-5 days before I get them in Mich. I can't wait!!!


----------



## Wokei

twinacstacks said:


> No they are just Leaving the Facility in China.(5 days now) Once they Get to San Francisco (1 day air) they can sit up to 3 Days there then It's usually 5 days before I get them in Mich. I can't wait!!!




ED9 me heard ...it' s a good one ....planning to use your best tip on them Auvios 

Man ....love your tenacity in teeling everybody bout them all.......you make me laugh ....,you funny 

Lucy


----------



## yangian

Really like ATE's 3D presentation! Comparable (though a bit inferior) to IE80 and KEF M200. Anyone can give a comparison to Havi B3, which is also well known of 3D presentation.


----------



## CoiL

You guys are making me drooling with all this ATE soundstage talk ;P


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> Really like ATE's 3D presentation! Comparable (though a bit inferior) to IE80 and KEF M200. Anyone can give a comparison to Havi B3, which is also well known of 3D presentation.


 
 I can, my ATE are in India now, I might receive these on next monday or tuesday.


----------



## smy1

h20fidelity said:


> I'm surprised you guys haven't caught on that playing music double speed accurately halves the burn in time. An old trick we've used for a long time.




Wait if you use pink noise 2x the speed it will burn in quicker?


----------



## Koolpep

smy1 said:


> Wait if you use pink noise 2x the speed it will burn in quicker?


 

 Only during leap years though.


----------



## H20Fidelity

smy1 said:


> Wait if you use pink noise 2x the speed it will burn in quicker?


 
  
 Of course, just don't go 8x speed. (_the driver will move too fast)_


----------



## CoiL

More I listen to ED9 the more I`m thinking it`s very revealing to "badly" mastered recordings. Although sometimes I get a feeling that with ED9 imaging some background effects/sounds are maybe too laid-back(far away) and maybe not so present as I would prefer but then again - it`s large soundstage and maybe it should be like that in the recording.
 Anyway, ED9 has very good separation, details and clarity with black background.
  
 Another thing, I really need to change cable... it`s too rubbery and "sticks" to everything, doesn`t move freely and isn`t "elastic" enough for comfortable use.
 Anyone knows good cable donor to ED9 cheaply? Without mic. I don`t want to destroy my GR for that.


----------



## AlecR

Wait, do people actually think _burn-in_ does something?


----------



## sodesuka

alecr said:


> Wait, do people actually think _burn-in_ does something?



 
It does reduce intermodulation distortion http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break But I think you should bring it to sound science forum if you want to continue this discussion, it's always turned ugly.


----------



## EISENbricher

alecr said:


> Wait, do people actually think _burn-in_ does something?


 
 Varied for me in case of each earphone. My Tenore and ED8m (Red) are best examples of large change. While sound of Havi B3, EDSE, TTPOD T1E has changed very marginally or maybe even didn't. 

 Also, burn in is divided between physical and brain burn-in. That may be the reason why there are so many debates over it. I am a believer in burn in but I don't anymore keep my new gear on burn in sessions. Instead, I prefer the burn in to happen during regular use.


----------



## TwinACStacks

alecr said:


> Wait, do people actually think _burn-in_ does something?


 






 Do Earphones or Headphones have moving parts operated by electric current, Like diaphrams , armatures or pistons, wiring or circuits and in the case of speakers Spiders, coil and Magnet assemblies? If the answer is YES, Then I maintain there is some type of break in to achieve maximum performance. As with *ANY* other electronic or mechanical device. With some devices the effect is minimal, with others there is a Huge difference.
  
 JMHO and I'm sticking with it.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Please lets not discuss this topic here anymore...


----------



## B9Scrambler

Agreed...this discussion can end up a thread closer.

On a more related note, for those who are trying out filter mods, how's it going for you? I applied my ANV mod (fabric stuffed in a large Sony hybrid tip) to the brass filter. Works pretty well, and is easier to apply than the Blue Mod.


----------



## anticute

Okay, so now I received my ED9s as well, still waiting for the ATE. Well, actually two pairs of ATE, I'm another victim of the evil KZ plan of releasing a transparent black version just after the first order having been shipped.. 
  
 First of all, I'm really not an über audiophile with super trained ears, I just like my music. With that being said:
  
 Because I use my IEMs on my daily commute, straight out of an iPhone 6 (I know, I know, but having just one player, that can either play files or stream whatever I feel like listening to at the moment at 320kbps with Spotify is pretty convenient..), foam tips are a must for the isolation. Recently bought some Chinese "comply" tips, which are actually pretty nice, but with them, I found that the bass on the EDSE could become a bit too overpowering, to the point where I actually had to EQ them a bit in order for them not to become fatiguing. With the brass nozzles on the ED9 with the same tips, I feel that the lower end has become less boomy and overpowering, and quite a bit tighter and more detailed. Definitively not by any means lacking though, it just balanced it all out nicely to the point where I don't feel a need to EQ anymore. Overall, with the brass nozzles, these feel more airy than the EDSE, more detailed and with greater separation. Which to me is pretty awesome, considering how much I like the EDSE.
  
 So far, about two hours in, I'm really quite impressed. I just hope that they will isolate as well as the EDSE, otherwise I'm afraid that the extra detail is going to get lost on safe volume settings. Can't wait to try them out tomorrow! It's also going to be interesting to try them out with my Clip+/NX1 as well, when I have the time. 
  
 Some oddities though - first of all, one of my brass nozzles has one little breathing hole, but the other one has two? Haven't really been able to notice this making a lot of difference so far, but I'm going to have to experiment with this.
  
 Also, I bought a pair of KZ GR at the same time, more for the nozzles than anything else. However, it seems like the threads on the GR nozzles aren't quite the same as on the ED9, so I can't screw them all the way in. Oh well, I'm definitely not going to complain either way, brass nozzles feel more or less spot on anyway, although it's going to be interesting to see what kind of mods you guys come up with..


----------



## CoiL

Try some silicone tips which are very soft and have large opening + brass nozzles  Imo ED9 doesn`t require so perfect sealing to sound as good as it sounds. Heck, eisenbrich even tried them without nozzles and said it was good ;D
 If You don`t like or use Your GR, then it is pretty good cable donor to ED9


----------



## anticute

coil said:


> Try some silicone tips which are very soft and have large opening + brass nozzles  Imo ED9 doesn`t require so perfect sealing to sound as good as it sounds. Heck, eisenbrich even tried them without nozzles and said it was good ;D
> If You don`t like or use Your GR, then it is pretty good cable donor to ED9


 
 Yeah, I'm sure silicone tips would work fine in a home setting (might even be better, SQ wise), but since I'm on a rather noisy bus two hours per day, no matter of detail makes any difference unless I have enough isolation to be able to enjoy it..


----------



## jj69

anticute said:


> Also, I bought a pair of KZ GR at the same time, more for the nozzles than anything else. However, it seems like the threads on the GR nozzles aren't quite the same as on the ED9, so I can't screw them all the way in.


 
  
 This is kind of frustrating, as I too have ordered a pair of GR, just for the red nozzles, based on the claims of two posters in this thread. 
  
 Also, although there are claims that the red GR nozzles are best in the ED9, no one has stated exactly what improvements can be expected.  Only general statements that the red filters are the "best."


----------



## CoiL

You can use those red GR filters with ED9 but they don`t seal properly against ED9 body due to winding being too long. I don`t know who stated them being best but imo they are not. Brass filter with proper foam inserts is best imho


----------



## ilikeiem

jj69 said:


> This is kind of frustrating, as I too have ordered a pair of GR, just for the red nozzles, based on the claims of two posters in this thread.
> 
> Also, although there are claims that the red GR nozzles are best in the ED9, no one has stated exactly what improvements can be expected.  Only general statements that the red filters are the "best."


 

  
 I can skew it in like this without any problem.  Every filter has its functionality. If you like it then it's the best.


----------



## CoiL

seems You have different red filters. Yours have no hole? I have holes in red filter and I can`t screw them fully against ED9 body.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> seems You have different red filters. Yours have no hole? I have holes in red filter.


 
  
 No hole, Sirs. Look like you have different version of KZ-GR.  
 I have this version.


----------



## anticute

With my red filters, that would be completely impossible without quite a lot of force.. As for CoiL, mine really aren't even very close to being fully screwed into the body. I'm pretty sure it has to do with more than just the length of the filter, because when I tried the gold ED9 filter in my GR, I could almost push it into place without even screwing, so it seems that the threading on the ED9 filters is slightly thinner than the filters on the GR..


----------



## B9Scrambler

My gold filters on the ED9 have to be installed a certain way, as one will not screw all the way into the left side. Brass filters are fine.

I guess that's one "downfall" of such an inexpensive product. Personally, I don't care, but for those who bought the GR for the filters and ran into this issue, I get where you're coming from.


----------



## CoiL

I think older version of GR had holes and newer version have no holes, that`s where the difference and problem is coming from. 
 As much as I know KZ official store isn`t selling older version with holes. I bought mine from different aliexpress seller who had older version in stock.


> it seems that the threading on the ED9 filters is slightly thinner than the filters on the GR..


 
 Exactly.


----------



## AlecR

b9scrambler said:


> My gold filters on the ED9 have to be installed a certain way, as one will not screw all the way into the left side. Brass filters are fine.
> 
> I guess that's one "downfall" of such an inexpensive product. Personally, I don't care, but for those who bought the GR for the filters and ran into this issue, I get where you're coming from.




Keep twisting and I suspect the filter will go in. One of mine does that too.


----------



## RedTwilight

alecr said:


> Keep twisting and I suspect the filter will go in. One of mine does that too.




Or it might wear/ spoil the screw thread so some caution advised there.


----------



## yangian

ATE is good in the sense it's not source selective. A laptop or a smart phone basically can fully drive it.


----------



## twister6

This is a Review of KZ ED9 and KZ ATE in-ear headphones with inline remote.  
  
 It has been awhile since the last time I reviewed a pair of headphones in sub $20 price range that made me go WOW! right out of the box.  When it comes to budget headphones, the first thing people notice is a low price, then maybe some cool design details, and at the end you make a polite comment with "for this price it sounds good".  The first pair of budget headphones that broke a ground for me with a sound that was good for real came from Xiaomi (Pistons 2).  Now raising the bar to a whole new level with an even lower price, with a unique build quality and design, and with a sound tuning that is excellent - two latest releases from Knowledge Zenith (KZ): ED9 and ATE.
  
 I don't have too much experience with their other models, except for ED Special Edition (EDSE) which also impressed me with their premium quality build, cable design, and a smooth balanced sound signature with an enhanced low end.  I didn't know what to expect from ED9 and ATE models, but considering a similar cable and an equally unique design I figured it worth a shot to check it out.
  
 Let me first start with KZ ED9 model.  Arrived in a small plastic box, it had a very basic cover graphics and a detailed spec on the back.  Under the cover it had a nice display presentation with a foam cutout and ED9 inside of it.  Though it was minimalistic, for such low price KZ actually included a set of 3 hybrid eartips (S/M/L, hybrid design with a red core) and a set of 2 filters!  Yes, hard to believe but this design accommodates replaceable metal nozzle-filters that screw into the shell of headphones.  And as a bonus there was an extra pair of hybrid eartips used as a "holder" for 2nd set of filters.
  
_Unboxing and Accessories._
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  
 Now, more about ED9 design.  Starting with a cable, this is something you wouldn't expect from a "budget" IEM.  It has a quality gold plated L-shaped connector with a nice strain relief.  The multi-colored twisted wires are inside of a clear rubbery shielding which is soft and easy to manage without getting tangled too much.  Y-splitter is small and rubbery with a nice strain relief around all 3 points of wire connection.  Right side of the wire also has inline remote control with universal multi-function single button and mic right next to it.  You don't have to worry about compatibility of volume control (Android vs iOS) since those buttons are not present, but a single click Play/Pause/Call works flawlessly, and double-click skips to the next song with my Note 4.
  
 The wire goes to a metal chrome plated shell and has a nice strain relief at the attachment as well.  As you can see, a lot of thought went into the cable design and durability of every joint connection.  The shell itself is very slick and has a little bit of weight to it.  Considering that and a fact that you can only wear it wire down, you do need to pair it up with a set of eartips that give you not only the best seal but also a grip to hold these IEMs securely inside of your ears.  The shell itself has multiple air vents including a pinhole next to the attached wire, the other one at the base of the nozzle filter, and two large wire mesh covered ports on the back of the shell.  Combined, all this contributes to an open airy wide soundstage and at the same time a mediocre isolation.  Also, top of each earpiece has a clearly spelled Left/Right marking.  Microphonics effect was noticeable when cable brushed against my shirt, but it wasn’t too bad.
  
_Design._
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  
 When it comes to a sound, let me reassure you that included two pairs of filters are not a gimmick.  When you look closer, they have a very distinct design, a slight difference in length and finish (faded brass - neutral, shiny gold - bassy), and shiny gold nozzle-filter even has a foam insert filter.  A difference was very noticeable between these two filters that definitely contributed to shaping of a sound signature.  Moving forward, I will refer to “bronze” and “gold” in order to distinguish which filter I was using in my listening setup.
  
 ED9 (bronze) has a neutral sound with slightly mid-forward signature.  Overall it’s bright and detailed sound with a wide airy soundstage that also has a nice depth to it.  Bass is neutral, tight, and punchy, with a good extension and characteristics of being able to hear it instead of feeling it.  Mids are clear and bright, slightly forward which could be an artifact of my perception.  I would also say that mids are a bit on a thin side, almost close to analytical in nature, but not harsh.  Treble is crisp and bright, and with a nice extension.
  
 ED9 (gold) has a more balanced sound with an enhanced low end.  It still has a wide soundstage, but not as airy due to decreased level of brightness/sparkle.  Low end now gets a nice sub-bass extension accompanied by a strong punchy mid-bass.  Mids transform themselves with a little more body and feel a bit pushed back behind low end, but not in a recessed way.  Lower mids are still on a thinner side, but upper mids are warmer and smoother.  As a consequence of that, they lose some of the details in comparison to bronze filter, but do remain clear.  Treble is crisp and bright, and has a nice extension though a bit attenuated in comparison to a setup with a bronze filter.
  
 Since majority of my other IEMs are either balanced or have an enhanced low end, I figured for comparison I better use ED9 w/gold filter.  Also, since I was going through so many different comparisons between ED9 with different filters and ATE and my other IEMs, the comments are relative to one specific headphone as noted below in comparison.  Also, my IM50 has a silver-plated replacement wire from Lunashops.
  
 - ED9 (gold) vs IM50: ED9 has less aggressive sub-bass, thinner lower mids, slightly less forward upper mids, a brighter treble with a bit more extension, and a wider soundstage.
  
 - ED9 (gold) vs VSD3: VSD3 has less sub-bass, brighter and leaner mids with a little more details, and actually upper mids/treble is a little harsher and grainy, a little better treble extension, and a soundstage with slightly less width.
  
 - ED9 (gold) vs KC06A: ED9 has a similar sub-bass but a bit less mid-bass, smoother mids (where I find KC to be a bit harsh/grainy), treble has a touch less extension and not as crisp, also ED9 has a wider and a deeper soundstage.
  
 - ED9 (gold) vs Pistons 2 (w/filter mod): P2 has more mid-bass slam, a bit deeper sub-bass, mids a bit brighter and harsher, and they have a similar treble.
  
 - EDSE vs ED9 (gold): ED9 has a very similar low end, smoother mids, a touch less of treble extension, and a similar soundstage.
  
  
 Now, let’s move on to KZ ATE.  With an exactly same shaped small box as ED9, ATE arrived with a same cover graphics but the cover itself was transparent revealing a pair of silver colored ATEs in a foam cutout display setting.  Also similarly to ED9, the back of the box had a detailed spec.  Included accessories had 2 pairs of basic silicone eartips (M/L) and a pair of foam eartips (M).  Here sound is “fixed” without any removable/replaceable filters like with ED9.
  
_Unboxing and Accessories._
  

  

  

  

  

  
  
 Moving on to a design and starting with a cable, it was consistent with both EDSE and ED9 models.  It has a quality gold plated L-shaped connector with a nice strain relief.  The multi-colored twisted wires are inside of a clear rubbery shielding which is soft and easy to manage without getting tangled too much.  Y-splitter is small and rubbery with a nice strain relief on the common side of wire connection.  Right side of wire also has inline remote control with universal multi-function single button and mic on the opposite side.  You don't have to worry about compatibility of volume control (Android vs iOS) since those buttons are not present, but a single click Play/Pause/Call works flawlessly, and double-click skips to the next song with my Note 4.
  
 Moving up from there I encountered something different which I haven’t seen in any other IEMs I tested in the past.  Placed about 120mm down from earpieces, each side of the cable has a small weighted down golden capsule.  With ATE having over-ear fitment only and without a cable cinch due to an inline remote, these little inline weights serve a purpose of keeping the wire down behind your ears.  I’m not suggesting they are like two heavy anchors, but they are actually light with just enough weight to keep the wire down from swinging as you walk or move around.
  
 Attached to the shell, cable has a nice strain relief and connects to a round metal cross-etched ring with a color marking to distinguish Right (red) vs Left (black) sides.  The shell also has L/R letter marking but in case if it going to wear off, you can always rely on the color coded metal ring piece where cable enters the shell.  The shape of the shell has a VERY close resemblance to IM50 IEMs, which also makes me wonder about a model name of "ATE" to signify this "AT" similarity?  But make no mistake - it’s not the exact copy, just a resemblance of a shape.  The shell itself is all plastic and very lightweight, and with security of over ear wire fitment – you have a little more eartip choices since you are no longer required to use the biggest one to keep these IEMs in your ears.  There is also a pinhole air vent at the bottom of the nozzle, coincidentally in the same spot as IM50.
  
_Design._
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  
 Now, when it comes to a sound, ATE doesn’t use any sound shaping filters but it will require some tip rolling to get the most out of these headphones.  Coincidentally, I found the best sound for me to be with ED9 hybrid eartips, and as a matter of fact didn’t have to use the largest size.
  
 In more details, I found KZ ATE to have a balanced smooth sound signature with an enhanced low end performance.  It has a tight bass with a nice slam, in particularly a powerful sub-bass rumble with a fast punchy mid-bass.   Mids have a full body sound with warm lower mids and detailed smooth upper mids, though they slightly pushed back.  I absolutely love the organic nature of the vocals delivery, both male and female, so smooth and so intimate.  Treble is detailed but not too bright or crisp, and it has a moderate extension.  Soundstage is more intimate with an average width though above average depth.
  
 For comparison, I started with ED9 and gold “bassier” filter, and then I tried it against a handful of my other IEMs, including obvious choice of IM50 which I use with a silver plated cable.
  
 - ED9 (gold) vs ATE: ATE has a tighter and a more articulate low end with a better balance between sub- and mid-bass.  As a matter of fact, ATE has more sub-bass vs ED9 gold having more mid-bass.  ATE lower mids have slightly more body and upper mids are a touch brighter and more detailed.  ATE treble is not as extended as ED9 gold, but still very clear, and with gold filter ED9 and ATE have a similar soundstage.
  
 - ATE vs IM50: I found IM50 to have a very close sound signature with a similar mid-bass and a little more sub-bass quantity.  Also, IM50 has a little more forward upper mids with a bit warmer lower mids, though overall IM50 mids are a bit less detailed than ATE.  Tremble is very similar in quality and extension, and the same goes for soundstage similarities between these two.
  
 - ATE vs VSD3: ATE has more sub-bass, and overall warmer sound.  Mids are smoother, definitely less harsh and more organic than VSD3.  Treble is not as harsh and not as extended either, while soundstage is similar.
  
 - ATE vs KC06A: KC has less sub-bass, leaner brighter mids with thinner lower mids and harsher/grainier upper mids, and a crispier treble with a better extension.  KC soundstage has less depth and width.
  
 - ATE vs Pistons 2 (w/filter mod): P2 has more mid-bass slam/bloat, mids are brighter/harsher, while treble is similar, and so does soundstage.
  
 - EDSE vs ATE: ATE has a tighter low end, more sub-bass, smoother warmer mids where lower mids have more body, treble has a bit less brightness and a touch less extension.
  
*Conclusion.*
  
 I don’t know what to say…  A sub $20 pair of IEMs with inline remote and quality cable shouldn’t look and sound that good   Period!  Between ED9 with gold and bronze filters and ATE you have 3 distinct sound signatures going from neutral revealing sound of ED9 w/bronze to a warmer and smoother ED9 w/gold and into a balanced bass slammer with a clear and detailed sound of ATE.  And even with both of these headphones combined you are still paying less than some of the other giant killers I reviewed in the past.  Ok, you have to be realistic that ATE has a plasticy build and ED9 might be a bit heavy to stay in your ears as you move around.  Also, I’m not suggesting they are the best headphones I ever heard or can go head-to-head with some top hybrid or multi-BA driver designs.  You have to be realistic.  But their price/performance ratio punches WAY above any other competition in a similar price range.  And considering their price, I would even consider getting a few pairs to keep as a replacement if one breaks.  These one definitely get my high recommendation, especially ATE which I’m really enjoying right now


----------



## EISENbricher

Great reviews, @twister6.


----------



## earfonia

twister6 said:


> This is a Review of KZ ED9 and KZ ATE in-ear headphones with inline remote.
> 
> 
> ....
> ...


 
  
  
 Now you make me want to try KZ-ATE


----------



## acain

Now I am more excited I bought these can't wait to get my ears all over them.


----------



## RedTwilight

Very VERY nice review! If only you had the havis to compare to it'd be perfect. Or I could do that . Now all I need are the KZs...


----------



## CoiL

Nice review Twister6. Although I don`t agree with some things about ED9 sound impressions (not so important and might come from source difference), overall good review.


> ED9 (gold) has a more balanced sound with an enhanced low end.


 
  Sorry that I disagree but with gold filters ED9 is rather V-shaped sound signature than balanced. Personally wouldn`t call it balanced.
  
 Quote:


> with gold filter ED9 and ATE have a similar soundstage.


 


> - ATE vs Pistons 2 (w/filter mod): ...while treble is similar, and so does soundstage.


 
 Some here have mentioned ATE soundstage being larger or same as ED9 and I definitely find ED9 soundstage noticeably larger in every direction than P2, even with gold filters - just makes me thinking about Your soundstage comparison.
  
 Not trying to make Your review incorrect, just some things I noticed and our hearing/source gear is different and impressions subjective.
  
 I really recommend You to try brass filters with some foam inside 
  
 When I will receive my ATE, I will try to make my own short "review" & findings about ATE vs. ED9 vs. Piston2.


----------



## mebaali

@Coil - Since last night i have been using brass filter with tiny bit of foam (taken from sponge cleaner in the kitchen) and you are right. Brass filter's overall sound signature seems to have changed leaps and bounds for my ears from its earlier version (more thumpy bass seems to be the major notifiable change for my ears).


----------



## CoiL

_I told ya!_





 And excess sharpness of highs is also eliminated (without affecting clarity) imo - which was the main purpose of this filter mod to me. If bass is getting "raised" too much try airier foam pieces without compressing them


----------



## Ruben123

Sound signature of ATE seems a bit like XKDUN ck-m700. Smooth vocals, wide soundstage and rolled off treble for a never fatiguing sound. I dont ever wear iems over ear though... so ATE seems a no go for me.


----------



## smith

I have had the ED9 now for about a week running out of my Iphone 6 (gold filters.. did not received the brass ones..) and  I really like the sound. The soundstage for me is the standout feature. Only thing really against them is that I am find them a little to bright for my taste....


----------



## sodesuka

smith said:


> I have had the ED9 now for about a week running out of my Iphone 6 (gold filters.. did not received the brass ones..) and  I really like the sound. The soundstage for me is the standout feature. Only thing really against them is that I am find them a little to bright for my taste....


 
 Try stuffing tiny pieces of foam or cotton in the filter, works good for me.


----------



## CoiL

You didn`t receive brass nozzles? Pitty! ;( Foam inside gold nozzles results too much bass/boomy sound imo. The less stuff there is in gold nozzle, the better it is. I have removed foams and grills from my gold nozzles and it got better. But yeah, with this kind of mod You can`t "cure" sharp highs unfortunately


----------



## EISENbricher

smith said:


> I have had the ED9 now for about a week running out of my Iphone 6 (gold filters.. did not received the brass ones..) and  I really like the sound. The soundstage for me is the standout feature. Only thing really against them is that I am find them a little to bright for my taste....


 
 You should contact the seller about that. Anyway if you find gold filters too bright then there's a little chance that you would have liked the brass filters. They offer more neutral sound which comes with brighter highs compared to the Gold filters. I tried experimenting with foam inside brass filters it but then they sound more or less like Gold filters. Anyways I'm really happy with the stock brass filter and the rich micro details it provides.


----------



## CoiL

> I tried experimenting with foam inside brass filters it but then they sound more or less like Gold filters. Anyways I'm really happy with the stock brass filter and the rich micro details it provides.


 
 You should try more different materials and sizes  I managed to get proper setting and all the microdetails remained while sharpness got removed


----------



## eejohnny

i bought translucent ATE for $9.98.
 looking forward to receiving


----------



## smith

Thanks for the tips guys.... I will try some foam and will probably get the mic version as well and hopefully I will get the brass filters with that one!


----------



## vovka

the mic of my KZ ES had died today 
it seems the cable is damaged inside L-connector

but well, now i have a good excuse to buy an ATE


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> You should try more different materials and sizes  I managed to get proper setting and all the microdetails remained while sharpness got removed


 
 I doubt I will... there are two ways to reduce the sharpness and one is foam way and other is tip way. I opted for Sony Hybrids to smooth out the highs a bit and that did the trick for me.


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, tips is another option but harder to "apply" for everybody.


----------



## EISENbricher

Don't know what that means but anyway it's cool either way. It's final sound that matters.


----------



## twister6

coil said:


> Nice review Twister6. Although I don`t agree with some things about ED9 sound impressions (not so important and might come from source difference), overall good review.
> 
> 
> > ED9 (gold) has a more balanced sound with an enhanced low end.
> ...


 
  
 That's what Head-fi is about, to express our ear-pinion from a different perspective?  Soglasen? 
  
 I meant "more balanced" relative to brass filter since I'm evaluating it as a comparison, and I did mention that I found mids to be slightly behind, though in my opinion I didn't hear them too recessed to call v-shaped.  But it doesn't matter, and I'm glad you can add your perspective on that.  I'm pretty sure you spent a lot more time with these IEMs.  Unless someone is a total noob who writes "this is a best pair of headphones I ever heard, and I'm hearing things now I never heard before", there is no such thing as "correct" or "incorrect" review since we all hear things differently and use different sources.
  
 With gold filter ED9 highs are not as bright and airy, and that was contributes to my perception of soundstage width/depth, another relative comparison.  With brass filter, ED9 is superior over P2 in terms of staging, but with gold I heard them on a similar level.  Btw, my P2 is modded with filter removed.  Btw^2, i tried brass filter with a foam from gold filter, and wasn't too happy about the change.  Just a personal preference, oh and btw I'm using Cayin N6 as a source.


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for explaining Your perspective  Makes sense.


----------



## camikeva

I currently have the KZ EDSE, the DT3 and the ED8.  Awaiting delivery of ED9 and ATE.  I continue to be amazed by how good all of these KZ iems sound.  Their speed to market with so many good sounding iems, all with unique sound signatures, is absolutely amazing  Other manufactures do annual or semi-annual product roll-outs.  These guys do monthly or bi-weekly roll-puts.  And not a real clunker in the bunch!  Are they the best sounding iems on the planet?  No, but if anyone in this industry consistently manages to hit the 80/20 rule (80% of the sound for 20% of the cost), it is KZ.


----------



## EISENbricher

camikeva said:


> I currently have the KZ EDSE, the DT3 and the ED8.  Awaiting delivery of ED9 and ATE.  I continue to be amazed by how good all of these KZ iems sound.  Their speed to market with so many good sounding iems, all with unique sound signatures, is absolutely amazing  Other manufactures do annual or semi-annual product roll-outs.  These guys do monthly or bi-weekly roll-puts.  And not a real clunker in the bunch!  Are they the best sounding iems on the planet?  No, but if anyone in this industry consistently manages to hit the 80/20 rule (80% of the sound for 20% of the cost), it is KZ.


 
 +1, the VFM here is too good. They do have a bright future ahead.


----------



## earfonia

Guys, how's the Micro Ring compare to ED9 (best filter for you) and ATE?


----------



## altrunox

Ey, I will end up buying another pair of the ATE before mine arrives LOL.
  
 Wonder how good a cheapo combo like the Xduoo X2 + ATE can be...


----------



## CoiL

Just received my ATE (silver). All I have to say atm is that this is absurd how good stuff KZ is making for so little money!
 Probably going to order translucent ATE also because already itching to wood-mod + cable change ATE and ED9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Soon to say which I like more because ED9 has already "burned into my brain" but ATE is also very good! 
  
 For newcomers to KZ-land, definetly order both - ED9 and ATE, they are just amazing value for the money!


----------



## twister6

coil said:


> Just received my ATE (silver). All I have to say atm is that this is absurd how good stuff KZ is making for so little money!
> Probably going to order translucent ATE also because already itching to wood-mod + cable change ATE and ED9
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Getting translucent ATE as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm just itching to gut one of my other IEM with mmcx connector so I can mod ATE with it


----------



## CoiL

twister6 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Just received my ATE (silver). All I have to say atm is that this is absurd how good stuff KZ is making for so little money!
> ...


 
 Yeah, I understand that itch, was thinking also about using mmcx connector. But ATE seems harder to open. Not sure yet but I think it might be glued together and isn`t so easy to pull apart.
 Will try to open my ATE later tonight after training.


----------



## yangian

Thanks, Twiter6! Great review!
 But a question. I don't have ED9. But basically you claim EDSE, ED9 and ATE have similar soundstage. I don't have ED9. But I feel soudstage of ATE is obviously larger than EDSE.
 I want to add two pros of ATE. One is its 3D presentation. It's really great. Another is it's easy to drive to its full level. You do not need an good source to have it sound its sound, even a common laptop, not like IE80, you must provide an excellent source to make it sond its sound. I believe that's a considerable design for sports, as well as its light plastic shell. That's great.
 I think the cons is nondetachable cable. I'm afraid the connection of the cable with the shell will be broken sooner or later. I's easy to exert force there when you try to wear it.


----------



## twister6

yangian said:


> Thanks, Twiter6! Great review!
> But a question. I don't have ED9. But basically you claim EDSE, ED9 and ATE have similar soundstage. I don't have ED9. But I feel soudstage of ATE is obviously larger than EDSE.
> I want to add two pros of ATE. One is its 3D presentation. It's really great. Another is it's easy to drive to its full level. You do not need an good source to have it sound its sound, even a common laptop, not like IE80, you must provide an excellent source to make it sond its sound. I believe that's a considerable design for sports, as well as its light plastic shell. That's great.
> I think the cons is nondetachable cable. I'm afraid the connection of the cable with the shell will be broken sooner or later. I's easy to exert force there when you try to wear it.


 
  
 "claims" are made by audiophiles with big egos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm just a reviewer who likes to share my opinion about products I receive for review in exchange for my honest opinion (check out a link in my signature).  Reference to soundstage similarities including ED9 referred to using a gold filter which in my opinion shrinks soundstage by attenuating higher frequencies (that's how I hear it, not necessary how others are hearing it).  Plus keep in mind, our opinion of how we hear a sound or what we consider as "3D presentation" has also to do with other headphones we compare it to as a reference.  So, we are all good


----------



## Hidden

What can you tell about KZ-LP3?


----------



## yangian

twister6 said:


> "claims" are made by audiophiles with big egos
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow! You reviewed so many staff! Thanks very much for the contributions!


----------



## yangian

twister6 said:


> "claims" are made by audiophiles with big egos
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You reviewed so many earphones. So what do you rank ATE's presentation? How far it from like Titan, A83? Actually you have somehow asnswered this question when you afirm its depth.


----------



## EISENbricher

yangian said:


> Wow! You reviewed so many staff! Thanks very much for the contributions!


 
 Haha... didn't you know about @twister6 ? I've been reading his reviews since much time, even outside head-fi. I'm glad to see a reviewer who has already reviewed high end gear, reviewing and respecting sub $20 gear.


----------



## yangian

eisenbricher said:


> Haha... didn't you know about @twister6 ? I've been reading his reviews since much time, even outside head-fi. I'm glad to see a reviewer who has already reviewed high end gear, reviewing and respecting sub $20 gear.


 





 I'm new hand. haha


----------



## TwinACStacks

just Got my KZ ED9s. First impression, they sound WAY better than they should for $10. WOW. So far I like them best with the bright Gold Nozzles and Auvio Tips. Will give an Update @ 50 hrs as they are now in a 300 hr. process of getting them to burn my brain in.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  








 TWIN


----------



## Trapok

He he, i'm a lucky man, the seller send me twice the ED 9.


----------



## CoiL

There is no discount for ATE black translucent version atm? Want to buy but seems that discount from 2pcs deal is gone


----------



## HraD2

Guys, have you tried custom nozzles with ED9 (wooden for example)?


----------



## ilikeiem

ATE + ED9 eartips = d@mn good sound. 
  
 ED9 eartips isolate very well.  Put these eartips on ATE, this is a perfect combination.
  
 I test them with this kind of music. It's d@mn good.  No need to buy expensive IEM.


----------



## CoiL

Ilikeiem, don`t work on me... I have too small ear canals. Only thin and very soft Piston2 silicones will fit into my ears with ATE. ATE has pretty thick nozzle.
 But Piston2 tips seal ATE perfectly for me.
  
 Btw, I took my ATE apart.
 Doesn`t seem to be glued but It needs quite hard pull-twist between "gap-line" with something strong and same thick as that "gap". I used typical carpet-knife.
 Some pics: 
 

  
 That removable-cable looking part is moving freely along the cable and that golden "cap" above driver also. I see no point in latter one, just seems to be "bling-bling" thing for translucent housing.


hrad2 said:


> Guys, have you tried custom nozzles with ED9 (wooden for example)?


 
 No but maybe will make some if I finish modding it.


----------



## smy1

coil said:


> Just received my ATE (silver). All I have to say atm is that this is absurd how good stuff KZ is making for so little money!
> Probably going to order translucent ATE also because already itching to wood-mod + cable change ATE and ED9
> Soon to say which I like more because ED9 has already "burned into my brain" but ATE is also very good!
> 
> For newcomers to KZ-land, definetly order both - ED9 and ATE, they are just amazing value for the money! :etysmile:




Isn't US dollar more expensive then yuan? So maybe it makes up for it

Also can't wait for my ATE my is at Orlando right now. It got departed today on it's way to NC hopefully I get them by Thursday because I be traveling to Pittsburgh friday


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> ATE + ED9 eartips = d@mn good sound.
> 
> ED9 eartips isolate very well.  Put these eartips on ATE, this is a perfect combination.
> 
> I test them with this kind of music. It's d@mn good.  No need to buy expensive IEM.




 lol I was searching for this song for a while, I remember listening to this somewhere.


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> Ilikeiem, don`t work on me... I have too small ear canals. Only thin and very soft Piston2 silicones will fit into my ears with ATE. ATE has pretty thick nozzle.
> But Piston2 tips seal ATE perfectly for me.
> 
> Btw, I took my ATE apart.
> ...


 
 LOL, I`m actually listening to my ATE without back covers as I`m writing and it sounds great!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 
 Maybe I`m imaging things atm but sort of "hollowness" (maybe caused by plastic housing?) has lifted from ATE listening this way. 
 Anyway - modding madness begins!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Btw, I`m raising a question - are ED9 and ATE using same drivers?!? 
 Edit: nah, doesn`t seem like same drivers: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/3960#post_11630674


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> lol I was searching for this song for a while, I remember listening to this somewhere.


 
  
 If your ear canals are large enough, put ED9 (L-size) eartips on ATE and listen to this song.  Hope you will like it. This thing sounds really hi-end. 
  


coil said:


> LOL, I`m actually listening to my ATE without back covers as I`m writing and it sounds great!


 
  
 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 BTW, I'm able to put ED9 eartips S-size on ATE but L-size performs better.  soundstage is amazing.


----------



## yangian

Open back IEM! My goodness


----------



## CoiL

Guys... wait till You hear it without back covers... sounds pretty amazing to me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Needs little higher volume though...
 Actually doesn`t need higher volume... had quiet recording playing.
  
 And take it with grain of salt... I haven`t made comparison to ED9 yet, or any.
 But it really does sound great without backplates.
  
 Edit: Ok, I put plates back on... I hope I`m not hallucinating or something... but without backplates it really is better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Everything seems clearer and more natural. Like I told already - somekind of "hollowness" is lifted... everything sounds so effortless and... oh... I can see open-back covers coming
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Actually without backplates (through DX50+SU 1.3.3+cap mod) this is reminding me my best setup I have - modified Aune T1 + Siemens E88CC goldpin tube. 
  
 Ok, I`m going to stop and try again tomorrow with rested ears and mind... but if I reach to same conclusion tomorrow then I have found my budget IEM-bliss I was looking for
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit again... just out of curiosity I jumped back to ED9 with brass nozzle foam mod and I`mgetting confused...
 Time to go to sleep! Sorry guys...


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Guys... wait till You hear it without back covers... sounds pretty amazing to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just wonder why they don't use a metal mesh to cover it to make it open back, jut as ED9!


----------



## CoiL

ED9 is open back... basically also "fully open". Anyway, one thing is sure - both ED9 and ATE without backplates are amazing!


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> ED9 is open back... basically also "fully open". Anyway, one thing is sure - both ED9 and ATE without backplates are amazing!


 
 I hope i will have ATE tomorrow, but ain't planning using them without backplate.
 Maybe i will make an extra hole on it though or make the current one bigger.(Ofc once i try them without backplate, to check if i like the result).
 Thanks for your "modding/experimenting" information!


----------



## smy1

How does th ATE and ed9 compare to ttpod t1e

And maybe higher end like the gr07 Bass edition?


----------



## twister6

coil said:


> ED9 is open back... basically also "fully open". Anyway, one thing is sure - both ED9 and ATE without backplates are amazing!


 
  
 What if you drill a bunch of holes in the back of ATE plate?


----------



## yangian

twister6 said:


> What if you drill a bunch of holes in the back of ATE plate?


 

 If you make 11 holes, it will be better than Titan 1.


----------



## sunny9036

ilikeiem said:


> Even though ED9 is the best KZ IEM with highest sound resolution and huge soundstage. My top 5 most favorites KZ IEMs are as follows:
> 
> $9 ED8m BLUE    >    $13 ED9    >    $10 ATE    >    $12 ANV 2014    >    $8 EDSE
> 
> ...



I am actually pretty surprise that no one have spoken about DT5 Which is also a pretty amazing set. If you are looking for a sound signature close to DT3 with better mid, can try.


----------



## CoiL

twister6 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ED9 is open back... basically also "fully open". Anyway, one thing is sure - both ED9 and ATE without backplates are amazing!
> ...


 
 Maybe it will work but maybe plastic will still "reflect" sound... just thinking out loud. I will probably make new backplates with open design. First I will try closed of course but I suspect more open it is, better it is... no idea yet though.


----------



## sodesuka

Maybe put ATE driver in ED9's housing?


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> Maybe it will work but maybe plastic will still "reflect" sound... just thinking out loud. I will probably make new backplates with open design. First I will try closed of course but I suspect more open it is, better it is... no idea yet though.


 
 Filling foam around the cavity walls will do some justice.....


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, it might also work. Haven`t tried yet.


----------



## cheeto

My ED9 order has arrived in San Fran and I'm a matter of days away from having a listen to them - can't wait! I still have no clue where my ATEs are, though I did order them at the same time the two were from separate sellers.


----------



## EISENbricher

lol the modding attempts are going crazier day by day. The seek for better sound is unending. Take care guys while opening body and doing stuff.
  
  
 Quote:


ilikeiem said:


> If your ear canals are large enough, put ED9 (L-size) eartips on ATE and listen to this song.  Hope you will like it. This thing sounds really hi-end.


 
 Yup my ear canals are large and most of the times I find L ear tips comfy. I'd definitely try that combination. It shouldn't be long till I receive my ATE (Sliver). It's already in my country.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> LOL, I`m actually listening to my ATE without back covers as I`m writing and it sounds great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 As @CoiL suggest, i try listening to my ATE without back covers too. Hmmm... it sounds great! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for your advice.


----------



## ilikeiem

If anyone wanna open back covers of your ATE, here is how I did it. 
  
  

  
 Gently twist it... slowly 
  

  
 Here it is.... very easy


----------



## RedTwilight

ilikeiem said:


> If anyone wanna open back covers of your ATE, here is how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can fill out the space with silicon sealent glue. It'll hold the assembly together and probably damp all the case vibrations too!


----------



## sodesuka

redtwilight said:


> Can fill out the space with silicon sealent glue. It'll hold the assembly together and probably damp all the case vibrations too!


 

 I've did similar things to my old fullsizes and it almost always reduce soundstage even though it does relatively clean things up.


----------



## CoiL

They will close/open nicely without any glue needed and I also don`t recommend filling empty space with silicone etc. - soundstage will be lost.
 Last night listening to ATE in my bed I decided to pull off backplates while listening and I succeeded. Definitely without backplates or with fully open design ATE sounds better. And LOL, I fell asleep like that enjoying music  
 I`m so itching to mod them already with wooden backplates (open with metal grills) but can`t do it till I receive my mmcx connectors and replacement cables.


----------



## RedTwilight

Hm could we possibly drill a 6mm or so hole that's aligned to the back of the DD? Would that accomplish the same effect?


----------



## CoiL

Probably Yes. Heh, lol, I will try it right away because drilling bench is 2m from me. Will report back soon 
  
 Edit: Mod news!
  
 Drilled 7mm hole right above driver... it works! Go for it! You can even glue somekind of grill-fabric inside. Will do it also right away.
 Reporting back with pics soon 
  
 Dammit! I left those golden cup-grills home. Should have measured diameter and put those "into" holes with little glue from inside!
 That would also look awesome! I would call it GG (golden grill) mod or just grill-mod. But name it whatever You want guys... just recommending to do this hole-mod


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> Probably Yes. Heh, lol, I will try it right away because drilling bench is 2m from me. Will report back soon
> 
> Edit: Mod news!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice find!! Dammit I just clicked buy for the ATE. 

 Edit: Hm this mod will be even easier on my clear one...


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, probably. I also want translucent version now but there seems to be no discount offers atm.


----------



## EISENbricher

Revisiting back to the ED8m (Red) after listening much to ED9. I'd say bass quality on ED8m is better than ED9 using any of the filters. ED8m bass has better timbre, sounds more organic and especially the mid bass is a pleasure to listen to. Though, my Red ED8m required much burn in period to reach this level. Earlier the bass was overpowering and a little muddy. ED8m are beasts for genres like Pop and EDM.


----------



## CoiL

> I'd say bass quality on ED8m is better than ED9 using any of the filters. ED8m bass has better timbre, sounds more organic and especially the mid bass is a pleasure to listen to.


 
 You just have to find right amount of right filter material to get bass sound right with ED9 brass nozzles. Well it is already quite "right" sounding with stock brass filter imo but with foam inserts mismatch it can lose microdetails and timbre inside it. Though, I can only talk for myself and my source gear. With warmer sounding DAP/Amp/DAC it can be harder to get ED9 "right" with brass nozzles + foam.
 And I haven`t tried ED8m (and probably wont), so You could be right too.
  
 "Correctly" modded ED9 and ATE will be very hard to beat in this budget IEM category for long time... until KZ releases something better (dual BA maybe) 
  
 IMHO


----------



## Ruben123

So you can mod EVERY iem to sound better in bass, treble or mids. Thing is, how do they compare unmodded. Then ed8's bass is better. 
My mp8320s are great for pop when you ..................


----------



## sodesuka

ruben123 said:


> So you can mod EVERY iem to sound better in bass, treble or mids.


 
 You can? What kind of "better"? and would it be enough to beat others?
  
 I think you're simplifying thing here.


----------



## Ruben123

It was meant as an example! Lol
 I meant that you can mod every iem and then compare but that's not how you could compare headphones. 
A is crap but if you do this and that it has better bass than B but B has better highs until you mod and...and...

Endless mod story.


----------



## sodesuka

ruben123 said:


> It was meant as an example! Lol
> I meant that you can mod every iem and then compare but that's not how you could compare headphones.
> A is crap but if you do this and that it has better bass than B but B has better highs until you mod and...and...
> 
> Endless mod story.


 
 I know what you mean but there's no harm to that story as long as the modder make it clear that he's comparing modded phones. I honestly can't understand your annoyance lol.


----------



## RedTwilight

That's where the fun is tho! And it's also easier on the wallet haha.. Well , relatively speaking anw. Really intrigued by the open ATE mod. :-D


----------



## Ruben123

I don't find it annoying, just compare apples to apples 
If a modded ate is better than unmodded ed8, do mod ed8 then too. 
But that's my vision.


----------



## EISENbricher

'Passive' modding (stuffing of materials, filters, etc) is always '*subtractive*' method of sound modification. Basically it works in a way where you pull down specific freq bars on equalizer. This is a very good method for toning down certain frequencies which are being represented above ideal values. (correcting peaks, smoothing highs, etc). It's be not correct to say it 'enhances' the sound. This method is just taming some frequencies and shaping freq response of an IEM.
  
 Some parameters are totally dependent on the diaphragm and other factors such as cavities and more.


----------



## CoiL

What Eisen said 


ruben123 said:


> I don't find it annoying, just compare apples to apples
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If You think that ED8 would be modded definitely better than ate modded, then You don`t understand IEM characteristics like enclosure materials, shape, reflections, diaphragm and frequency response differences etc. 
 When modded A is better than unmodded B (unmodded A is worse than unmodded B), doesn`t mean that just activity called modding (and there are different ways to mod) will make modded B definitely better sounding than modded A. There are so many different factors to be taken into account.
  
 Btw, forgot to add before - with open-back/hole-mod ATE, highs seem more present/pronounced and overall clearer SQ. Bass seem also to be affected by those better highs in good way.
  
 Not sure yet, been switching modded ED9 and ATE after every little listening but main difference between them seems to be soundstage and microdetail retrieval. While ED9 seems to be littlebit better in latter, then ATE seems to have littlebit more pushed foward soundstage (I mean whole soundstage and imaging) which sound more natural with some music. This is just fast observation and might change.


----------



## ilikeiem

I highly recommend you put ED9 L-size eartips on ATE. I hope you will like your ATE much more.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Probably Yes. Heh, lol, I will try it right away because drilling bench is 2m from me. Will report back soon
> 
> Edit: Mod news!
> 
> ...


 





 Coil, What is the diameter of the Driver? I would think the hole would need to be same size diameter maybe slightly larger. What do you think?
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

8.5 - 8.75mm ...hard to tell exact measure, there is blue glue/epoxy around edge.
 I Don`t think it needs to be exactly same or larger than driver, just enough to let driver "breathe".
 Luckily I drilled 7mm, so I can still install those gold-grills behind driver to the housing 
 One thing I haven`t tried yet is closing the breathing hole near nozzle. I suspect it might result in tighter bass/kick.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Let me go into more depth on my impression of the ED9. Now that I have 20 Hrs. burn in, Placebo effect or not withstanding here is what I have found. While my Walkman I use for Burn in is recharging I have had an opportunity to roll tips and play around with the Nozzles. My First OOTB impression was A. I can Find better tips, B. I like the Gold Nozzle as it is quite a Bit more Lively and More Bass presentation. The Brass tip is very Good but rather Flat sounding. Well after some tip rolling I have found that A: I like Medium sized tips on these for insertion. The Larges sound Great but I have a feeling after a couple hours they will become uncomfortable. So I tried, Sony Hybrids, Sennheiser Tips, JVC Tips, MEELEC tips, Auvio Tips, and of course the Stock tips. Overall  #1 Auvio, #2 Sony, #3 stock red tips. Surprisingly to me, Figuring that VERY Wide bore tips, (Senn, JVC), would enhance the Brass nozzles, I found exactly the opposite. Using Audiophile Vernacular: It made them sound like S*IT. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As Far as Gold Vs. Brass Nozzles after 20 Hours The Gold has Changed from a V Shape to a Type of a reverse L shape with the emphasis on the Treble end. Mids have moved slightly forward Bass has slightly receded and evened out. The Brass presentation almost sounds linear and More detailed. I would pick this one for Audiophile listening BUT overall I still prefer the More lively Gold as I run My player Line out / Flat EQ.  I count on my Earphones to add the additional Body/ Sparkle.
  
 And there you have it at 20 Hours. Like all 'Phones I will give them +200 Hours with 50 Hour listening intervals to let my brain adjust to the Placebo effects. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 OH I forgot... My ATEs, just Like Jesus, have just left Chicago and are bound for Motor City. Should have them Sat. or latest Mon.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

Hi twin
How's ed9 with brass compared to your havis?


----------



## TwinACStacks

ruben123 said:


> Hi twin
> How's ed9 with brass compared to your havis?


 
 Comparable Linearity but the Havi's are FAR more detailed.  Similar soundstage widths, maybe giving the edge to the Havis. The ED9s will kill the Havi's Volume/ efficiency wise.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

Thanks  if ed9s with brass filter don't have pikey piercing highs as edse I might get them as havi for on the go listening. 
Is its isolation that bad? Since it's open design.


----------



## CoiL

> Comparable Linearity but the Havi's are FAR more detailed.


 
 Not so sure about that. I don`t have my HPro1 anymore but from the memory they are quite "same" when brass filters are being used. 
 But yes, ED9 has much better vol/efficiency ratio.
   
 Quote:


> One thing I haven`t tried yet is closing the breathing hole near nozzle. I suspect it might result in tighter bass/kick.


 
 Tried easy tape-test over breathing holes and seems to be like I predicted. Despite bass is thumpy, I`m not sure I like it more. Seems to raise bass quantity maybe too much.
  
 And testing will go on...


----------



## TwinACStacks

ruben123 said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




  
 Do you mean isolation from External sounds, or isolation for nearby People. No the Brass filter gives a faily flat eq. The GOLD filters raise the highs almost to silibence? on some music.
  








 TWIN


----------



## anticute

ruben123 said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I like my Havis, but since I mostly use my earphones on the go, from my cell phone, I haven't been able to use them to their full potential. I tried using them with my NX1, but I got too much radio interference from the phone, so I started using EDSE instead, which are way way easier to drive and a lot more forgiving regarding the absence of an amp. Now I've recently changed to ED9 (brass tips, chinese "comply" foam tips), which are, to my ears, significantly better than EDSE, and also work well driven straight from the phone.
  
 It's been a while since I used the Havis, properly amped etc, so I can't really give a just comparison, but the isolation is way better than I expected on both the EDSE and ED9. Sure, they're open backed, but with foam tips, they're totally usable even on the noisy bus I take every day.
  
 All in all, the only thing I can complain about regarding the ED9 is the cable. It's more rubbery than the EDSE cable, which means it tangles more easily, and I also find it to be slightly more microphonic.
  
 I've received my ATE as well, by the way, but I've been enjoying my ED9 so much that I haven't really given the ATE a proper listen..


----------



## peter123

coil said:


> *Not so sure about that. I don`t have my HPro1 anymore but from the memory they are quite "same" when brass filters are being used. *
> But yes, ED9 has much better vol/efficiency ratio.
> Tried easy tape-test over breathing holes and seems to be like I predicted. Despite bass is thumpy, I`m not sure I like it more. Seems to raise bass quantity maybe too much.
> 
> And testing will go on...




From direct A/B I totally agree with @TwinACStacks on this, the details and separation on the Havis (amped) are way better.


----------



## EISENbricher

peter123 said:


> From direct A/B I totally agree with @TwinACStacks on this, the details and separation on the Havis (amped) are way better.


+1

I have B3 and finding is similar.


----------



## yangian

Will Anyone compare Have with ATE?


----------



## ilikeiem

twinacstacks said:


> Comparable Linearity but the *Havi's are FAR more detailed*.  Similar soundstage widths, maybe giving the edge to the Havis. The ED9s will kill the Havi's Volume/ efficiency wise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Really? I doubt this.  Can you provide some track titles that you find Havi's are FAR more detailed?


----------



## Ruben123

OK this gets interesting. I like my havis but for a student like me I could use the money if I sold them and buy a sort of baby havi instead.
Keep us informed! 

Also ED9 brass vs ANV please!  both called flat/neutral


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Really? I doubt this.  Can you provide some track titles that you find Havi's are FAR more detailed?


 
 Havi has more details, not far better for sure.
 Kinda unfair to compare ED9 to Havi, which already are very good VFM IEMs and cost multiple times more than ED9.


----------



## CoiL

peter123 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > *Not so sure about that. I don`t have my HPro1 anymore but from the memory they are quite "same" when brass filters are being used. *
> ...


 
 I didn`t use my Havis with seperate amp. Only tried it with Aune T1 SS amp and DX50 HO. From that perspective - I still stay with my ear-memory and wouldn`t call Havis FAR more detailed.
 Another thing without amping Havis were it`s "recessed" bass range. 
  
 Just my experience with HaviB3Pro1... 
  


ruben123 said:


> Also ED9 brass vs ANV please!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wrote my opinion some time ago about ANV. They are VERY neutral sounding and analytical. Don`t bother to search my post, coping from my profile:


> very balanced/neutral sounding, great micro-details in highs region. Might lack littlebit mids and warmth in vocals. Quite hard and fast hitting kicks. Some bass heavy music may lack bass "sustain" and "deepness" but it might come from slight lack of midbass.


 
 For my gear and taste ED9 are superior in every way.


----------



## Shadowsora

I am drooling, tomorrow i will have my ATE and probably ED9 will be here on Monday.
 Those ATE mods seem rather interesting! But personally i don't wanna dig a "large" hole on the housing, i will try something else... maybe one extra small hole somewhere on it to let it "breathe".


----------



## CoiL

Hole(s) should be above driver imo, otherwise plastic will still "reflect" soundwaves. I did my ATE hole mod fast and not perfect but will show pics later when they have dried enough to touch... I painted them with spray, just for fun because I had spray laying near me. Result will not be so beautiful but I did it just to show what could be done. For myself I will go with wooden backplates and different grills. Atm I used those golden grills to "cover" that hole. Don`t know yet if those grills will reduce "open mod" effect but will update when I test them again.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> I didn`t use my Havis with seperate amp. Only tried it with Aune T1 SS amp and DX50 HO. From that perspective - I still stay with my ear-memory and wouldn`t call Havis FAR more detailed.
> Another thing without amping Havis were it`s "recessed" bass range.
> 
> Just my experience with HaviB3Pro1...
> ...




So anv is flatter/more neutral?


----------



## CoiL

Yep. SQ wise they are like "studio monitoring cans", neutral/cold/flat/analytical.
 But I do not find them very good for enjoying music, especially for longer sessions.
 And soundstage of ED9 is way better.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I just made an amazing discovery! 

If you listen to your ATE with the back plate off, while hanging upside down, and eating a spicy Italian subway sandwich, with your favorite pair of shoes on, it really opens up the soundstage!

Sarcasm


----------



## peter123

ruben123 said:


> OK this gets interesting. I like my havis but for a student like me I could use the money if I sold them and buy a sort of baby havi instead.
> Keep us informed!
> 
> Also ED9 brass vs ANV please!  both called flat/neutral




To my ears the ED9 is not more similar to the B3's than any other random, fairly neutral sounding IEM but YMMV. 




coil said:


> I didn`t use my Havis with seperate amp. Only tried it with Aune T1 SS amp and DX50 HO. From that perspective - I still stay with my ear-memory and wouldn`t call Havis FAR more detailed.
> Another thing without amping Havis were it`s "recessed" bass range.
> 
> Just my experience with HaviB3Pro1...
> ...




Nothing personal buy I don't even trust my own audio memory (been surprised too many times) let alone someone else's. A/B is the ONLY reliable way to compare for me but again YMMV.


----------



## yangian

ilikeiem said:


> Really? I doubt this.  Can you provide some track titles that you find Havi's are FAR more detailed?


 

 People always hype. Or people have different meanings  when using the same terms. If Ed9 is detailed than ATE, Havi cannot be far more detailed than Ed9. No way. Even no way than ATE. I cannot say M200 far more detailed than ATE, though it more or less obvious detailed than ATE. I'm not sure Have can be detailed than M200.


----------



## Ruben123

But Havi's flatness at 1/6 of the price is pretty likeable  so if anv/ed9 could fix that.....


----------



## Hisoundfi

Seriously guys, take the back plates off, hang upside down, get a spicy Italian subway sandwich, and wear your favorite shoes, and this ten dollar IEM will blow you away!


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> I just made an amazing discovery!
> 
> If you listen to your ATE with the back plate off, while hanging upside down, and eating a spicy Italian subway sandwich, with your favorite pair of shoes on, it really opens up the soundstage...
> 
> Sarcasm


 
 Do we need this kind of sarcasm here? Probably no
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 If You don`t like comments and impressions from somebody who likes to mod things and make them better sounding or just report findings, then please don`t comment or read about it.


----------



## yangian

ruben123 said:


> OK this gets interesting. I like my havis but for a student like me I could use the money if I sold them and buy a sort of baby havi instead.
> Keep us informed!
> 
> Also ED9 brass vs ANV please!
> ...


 

 Have should be deserved to save. Earphones is not like desktop. It cannot be improved to much. And a little bit improvement will cost much more cost. If you like 8320, I believe you should keep Havi.


----------



## Hisoundfi

coil said:


> Do we need this kind of sarcasm here? Probably no:rolleyes:
> If You don`t like comments and impressions from somebody who likes to mod things and make them better sounding or just report findings, then please don`t comment or read about it.


I was making a joke buddy.

I'm not going to steal the show from you, I'm quite entertained reading these last few pages. 

Keep calm and mod on sir, I'm going to sit back and see where all this goes. 

Cheers


----------



## peter123

yangian said:


> People always hype. Or people have different meanings  when using the same terms. If Ed9 is detailed than ATE, Havi cannot be far more detailed than Ed9. No way. Even no way than ATE. I cannot say M200 far more detailed than ATE, though it more or less obvious detailed than ATE. I'm not sure Have can be detailed than M200.




I don't know who's hyping: people refusing to believe that a $10 iem cqb be outperformed by one costing six times more or the other way around. 

I also notice that you keep "comparing" IEM's you've never heard out from other people's impressions of them. Unfortunately that's a mission doomed to fail because they're just that: other people's impressions. I've seen the ATE been called balanced, full and with prominent bass as long as I've not heard them myself it's pretty meaningless in speculating what is correct, let alone trying to evaluate them compared to other IEM's which I have or even worse, have not, heard.


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> I'm not going to steal the show from you, I'm quite entertained reading these last few pages.


 
 I don`t do this for show but I`m glad that You are entertained Sir.
  


peter123 said:


> Nothing personal buy I don't even trust my own audio memory (been surprised too many times) let alone someone else's. A/B is the ONLY reliable way to compare for me but again YMMV.


 
 Agree 100%. That`s why I noted out that it`s by ear-memory and without amp  Been misled by some reviews and impressions before. Now I`m just throwing in my own experience that hopefully will be useful for somebody.


----------



## yangian

peter123 said:


> I don't know who's hyping: people refusing to believe that a $10 iem cqb be outperformed by one costing six times more or the other way around.
> 
> I also notice that you keep "comparing" IEM's you've never heard out from other people's impressions of them. Unfortunately that's a mission doomed to fail because they're just that: other people's impressions. I've seen the ATE been called balanced, full and with prominent bass as long as I've not heard them myself it's pretty meaningless in speculating what is correct, let alone trying to evaluate them compared to other IEM's which I have or even worse, have not, heard.


 

 Sorry, Peter, I don't mean to make you angry. I hype sometimes too.  But I do think people use the same terms in different meaning somehow.


----------



## Hisoundfi

coil said:


> I don`t do this for show but I`m glad that You are entertained Sir.


Me too. Keep up the good work, I'm super excited to hear your next discovery.


----------



## peter123

yangian said:


> Sorry, Peter, I don't mean to make you angry. I hype sometimes too.  But I do think people use the same terms in different meaning somehow.




Hey, don't worry. It takes more than an entertaining discussion to get me angry 

What I'm trying to say is that FOR ME hearing is believing, everything else is just speculation and that's fun and interesting but nothing to draw to bombastic conclusions from.

In the end personal preference will color any impressions on such a subjective thing as sound


----------



## ilikeiem

hisoundfi said:


> Seriously guys, take the back plates off, hang upside down, get a spicy Italian subway sandwich, and wear your favorite shoes, and this ten dollar IEM will blow you away!


 
  
 my friend, here is what i discover.
  
 take the back plates off, hang upside down, get a spicy Italian subway sandwich, wear my favorites shoes, and this sandwich tastes better than ever.  from now on when I eat something I won't forget to put on my delicious IEM. It's called ATE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have fun!


----------



## Hisoundfi

ilikeiem said:


> my friend, here is what i discover.
> 
> take the back plates off, hang upside down, get a spicy Italian subway sandwich, wear my favorites shoes, and this sandwich tastes better than ever.  from now on when I eat something I won't forget to put on my delicious IEM. It's called ATE.
> 
> Have fun!


+1

Boom


----------



## yangian

peter123 said:


> Hey, don't worry. It takes more than an entertaining discussion to get me angry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You are right. But there are still totally different opinions from those who heard, even the question we are talking about. So we can do speculation. BTW, that's the meaning of reviewing. And personally I appreciate very much for you guys to write so many wonderful reviews. What's the purpose of review and why comparison? Why we honor some reviews/reviewers? Since from those reviews, one indeed is able to get a good sense of the product.


----------



## KZLover

I'm going to have a new KZ In-Ear. I'm moving up from GR.
 I'm on 20$ budget, Which one is the best?


----------



## CoiL

kzlover said:


> I'm going to have a new KZ In-Ear. I'm moving up from GR.
> I'm on 20$ budget, Which one is the best?


 
 ED9 ...it will obliterate your GR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And good thing is, You can exchange nozzles between them (if You have newer version GR without holes in red nozzle).


----------



## KZLover

ED9 and ATE Which is better?
 ED9 is Cheaper than the ATE in Thailand too. LOL


----------



## chavez

Can someone notify me when ATE drop below 10$? I would really appreciate it.


----------



## Hisoundfi

yangian said:


> You are right. But there are still totally different opinions from those who heard, even the question we are talking about. So we can do speculation. BTW, that's the meaning of reviewing. And personally I appreciate very much for you guys to write so many wonderful reviews. What's the purpose of review and why comparison? Why we honor some reviews/reviewers? Since from those reviews, one indeed is able to get a good sense of the product.


Still it doesn't mean that your ears will hear it the same way. 

I like to think of reviews as a "general idea" of what to expect from a product I'm interested in. 

There are several times I've read a review from some of the best reviewers out there, bought the product, and when I tried it what I heard was a lot different from them. 

Especially with IEMs there's sooooooooo many factors that impact how they will sound. 

At the end of the day I can only speak on what I've spent a good amount of time with, used with several different sources and tips, and done A-B comparisons on. 

Even then, people will "agree to disagree" on things, for the simple reason that we have different ears and different brains processing the sound coming from them.


----------



## CoiL

kzlover said:


> ED9 and ATE Which is better?
> ED9 is Cheaper than the ATE in Thailand too. LOL


 
 How is Your relation with highs and hearing condition? Are You very sensitive to sharp-leaned highs? Are You more fond of smoother presentation and mids? If You are - go for ATE, imo. Another option would be mod ED9 nozzles or just find which fits best to You - in that mind, ED9 is better option. With ATE You like it or not (no exchangeable nozzles/filters).


----------



## KZLover

coil said:


> How is Your relation with highs and hearing condition? Are You very sensitive to sharp-leaned highs? If You are - go for ATE.


 

 I'm Very sensitive to sharp-leaned highs,Now go for ATE, Thank you for your help.


----------



## yangian

hisoundfi said:


> Still it doesn't mean that your ears will hear it the same way.
> 
> I like to think of reviews as a "general idea" of what to expect from a product I'm interested in.
> 
> ...


 

 Totally agree. Too different.


----------



## EISENbricher

kzlover said:


> I'm going to have a new KZ In-Ear. I'm moving up from GR.
> I'm on 20$ budget, Which one is the best?


 
 I'd recommend to read past few pages (and @twister6's review of ED9 and ATE) of this thread to get some idea about ED9 and ATE. Make your own choice then. These two are latest KZ offerings and arguably among the best sounding KZ IEMs.
  
 However it seems that discount on ATE is over and it's available for more than $20. It'll soon be back on discount though, most probably or maybe some seller will start selling it at low price.


----------



## peter123

chavez said:


> Can someone notify me when ATE drop below 10$? I would really appreciate it.




They're $10,43 now.......


----------



## chavez

peter123 said:


> They're $10,43 now.......


 
  
 Depends which seller it is.Not all of them have free shipping to my home.


----------



## peter123

chavez said:


> Depends which seller it is.Not all of them have free shipping to my home.




Fair point


----------



## CoiL

...yes, I know, it doesn`t look nice but like I said previously, it was just fast fun mod to show what can be done (usually I don`t do things in crappy way like this).
 Does it still sound like without backplates?... hmmm... have spent too less time with it but seems so. 
  
 Have fun with modding! 
  
 Btw, I think I might still close those breathing holes near nozzle neck. Bass slam and drum kicks are just so freaking hard and powerful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Will leave holes closed for awhile and then try again without. Too early to make final conclusion...
 But I definitely recommend to try it along with grill mod ...and please report back here also, I want to know what You think of it


----------



## jj69

Guys, just a quick question about KZ.  Is there any fear of getting "fake" KZ products?  There seems to be wide range of prices for KZ items on AliExpress.
  
 I had assumed they're priced so low that there would be little incentive to fake them, but I want to be sure.  This seller has ATE for $10.25, ED9 for $10.46, and some other items I'm interested in.  Also, a coupon for $3 off $30 purchase:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-New-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-headphone-Super-Bass/1797792_32356569413.html
  
 Just a bit concerned about only 1 feedback.


----------



## CoiL

If You get fake, then You`ll probably know from the way it sounds... KZ`s sound good


----------



## TwinACStacks

Coil, what did you use to hold the Grills in Place? I had the exact same idea. I was featuring maybe JB Weld.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Tight hole + tinybit superglue from inside.


----------



## EISENbricher

jj69 said:


> Guys, just a quick question about KZ.  Is there any fear of getting "fake" KZ products?  There seems to be wide range of prices for KZ items on AliExpress.
> 
> I had assumed they're priced so low that there would be little incentive to fake them, but I want to be sure.  This seller has ATE for $10.25, ED9 for $10.46, and some other items I'm interested in.  Also, a coupon for $3 off $30 purchase:
> 
> ...


 
 Nope, never heard of. If the seller is a scammer he'd send nothing or would send something entirely different. In any case you may use AliExpress protection. But it's always recommended to buy from high rated seller.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Tight hole + tinybit superglue from inside.


 






 THAT would have been my 2nd guess. JB Weld would pretty much make it permanent.
  
 Plus We all love tight holes....
  








 TWIN


----------



## smy1

what does the KZ ATE sound burned in?
  
 just got my ATE there pretty good and there soundstage is pretty wide in some musics


----------



## CoiL

I think that superglue will also make it pretty permanent. No need to spend money and "invent bicycle" with that JB Weld, imho


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> I think that superglue will also make it pretty permanent. No need to spend money and "invent bicycle" with that JB Weld, imho


 





 My other idea was to draw 2 concentric circles on the shell, the outer one being the Diameter of the Screen Housing. Use a 3/32 Bit to drill a center hole, then maybe 1/16 and Drill holes along the circumferences of both circles Maybe 4 on middle circle and 6-8 on outer circle, then Paint the outer shells. I would probably just get rid of the screen all together. Ala' Titan venting!!!
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Sorry, I`m into wood-belief!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But if You do it (or whatever You decide to do), share your tips and results here too 
  
 Now, can someone please test breathing-hole closing on the nozzles and report back. I really like how it makes bass and drum kick powerful and tight - I think I know what wood I`ll be using with this configuration ;P


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Sorry, I`m into wood-belief!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Will do. Wood Eh? Very interesting.... something exotic like Zebrawood would be Tres' cool. I will check out the port hole thing once I get them. Look at me, I'm modding them before I even get them!!!!
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

I`m selecting wood by sound properties not looks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Atm I`m listening to _Karnivool - Sound Awake _album, my own rip, 16/44 FLAC through my modded DX50 and I`m really pleased what I`m hearing with closed nozzle-holes.
 It sounds like using additional portable amp, very powerful sound. I`m thinking making it permanent...
  
 Edit:
 Without nozzle-breathing-holes closing I have to turn my DX50 from 191 to 202 to reach same powerful sound as with closed holes. Though soundstage seems tinybit less airy this way but it is so powerful and engaging sound with still great soundstage. I`m having dilemma... probably will have to spend more days listening between those configurations.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> I`m selecting wood by sound properties not looks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a table of wood sound properties somewhere as applied to Guitar construction, would that be of any help?
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Electrical or acoustic guitar? There are some differences in those applications. But I think You have to make some hit-misses till You get what You want anyway. I just happen to have some experience with wood applied in HPs.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Electrical or acoustic guitar? There are some differences in those applications. But I think You have to make some hit-misses till You get what You want anyway. I just happen to have some experience with wood applied in HPs.


 





 Non specific as to body type it is just overall tonal properties.
  
 They are showing examples on solid bodies:
  
 http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Options/BodyWoodOptions.aspx
  








 TWIN


----------



## FLiPKicks

Can someone with the ED9's check if there's a hole next to the cable on their left IEM? I just noticed the right earpiece has a hole next to the cable and my left one does not. Either case, I like the V-shape of the gold filters. These IEM's rock! Feels like an upgraded Zero Audio Basso.


----------



## CoiL

I have hole on both sides on my ED9. But it shouldn`t matter much because that hole is "behind" driver where it`s "fully open" anyway.
  
 About ATE, I have permanently closed nozzle-breathing-holes with tiny drop of superglue.
 I don`t care what You guys think of this mod... it sounds very good to me along with hole-mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 But I do hope You`ll try it and like it also


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> ...yes, I know, it doesn`t look nice but like I said previously, it was just fast fun mod to show what can be done (usually I don`t do things in crappy way like this).
> Does it still sound like without backplates?... hmmm... have spent too less time with it but seems so.
> 
> Have fun with modding!
> ...


 
  
 Ooh! nice!! I'm out of rep points lol but have my +1!


----------



## EarTips

these kz ate in-ears are good
 and this nice deal for ed9


----------



## CoiL

Update about nozzle-holes:
 I`m not sure if everyone will like this mod so please try first non-permanent methods like tape over hole. 
 If You are fan on mid-centric smooth sound with thumping/punchy bass and drums, then this mod is recommended, especially if Your source or amp need some extra punch. 
 I changed to my ED9 and Fidelio X1 while same song playing loop and ATE with closed holes it does have reduced airiness and sense or open space but it is soooo engaging with some music. It`s like drums and bass are in focus and more present but not overdone/boosted like usually V-shaped sound signature has. Kind of mix - Drums and bass are like from intimate sounding HP/IEM but all the other stuff still has open space and good imaging. It`s kinda hard to describe.
 Which I like more - with colsed or open holes? Really I can`t answer that. When I put on ED9/Fidelio X1 then I love the large open airy soundstage and details. When I change back to ATE with closed holes It really grabs You in and after few minutes I totally forget about ED9 and its great open airy soundstage. 
 I think these two IEM`s modded in that way really complement eachother.
  
 I will definitely buy 2 more ATE`s and leave nozzle-breathing holes open with next hole-mod to compare.


----------



## mebaali

Just got my ATE


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> Just got my ATE


 
 Great. Mine is on the way to local post office. Might receive till Saturday : ) 
 This time Kolkata customs was fast.


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> This time Kolkata customs was fast.


 
 True. Both my ED9 and ATE got cleared in a somewhat record time unlike of Kolkata customs's usual clearance time 
  
 OOTB, i didn't like the sound that came with Foam tips (bass and vocals were too over powering and intimate for my liking) hence changed to my favt JVC spiral dot tips. Now the sound is more to my liking but will require some play time to see the full potential of these IEMs.


----------



## CoiL

Agree, first thing to do with ATE is remove foam tips and use large opening silicones so that highs can "get through".


----------



## Ruben123

Could ate also be worn cable down?


----------



## CoiL

Can but it`s uncomfortable this way and You`ll look like someone who has wires coming out of eye-corners 
  
 LOL, I just noticed I`m moshing my head at work listening to _Periphery - Juggernaut_ with ATE grill mod + nozzle hole mod... it`s pointless to resist such powerful sound!


----------



## Ruben123

Pity, wouldn't look too nice as my ears are elefants' size also.


----------



## CoiL

But ATE is very comfy to wear over-ear... what`s wrong with that? Belive me, You`ll get used to that comfort 
 I can`t wear IEM`s straight down anymore.


----------



## ilikeiem

ruben123 said:


> Could ate also be worn cable down?


 
 It will look like this:


----------



## Shadowsora

Just received my ATE, ootb i didn't even try them with the foam tips i just went and replaced them with some Sony "Hybrids" from MH1C, as i knew what to expect i went and tried female vocal heavy songs and i must say i am extremely pleased, half an hour listening so i can't tell in depth "impressions" but i will say my full impression probably the next days.
  
 KZ is madness, KZ is life.


----------



## earfonia

coil said:


> ...yes, I know, it doesn`t look nice but like I said previously, it was just fast fun mod to show what can be done (usually I don`t do things in crappy way like this).
> Does it still sound like without backplates?... hmmm... have spent too less time with it but seems so.
> 
> Have fun with modding!
> ...


 
  
 Wow!! Congrats man!  Your grill mod is super cool!


----------



## Suneth

shadowsora said:


> Just received my ATE, ootb i didn't even try them with the foam tips i just went and replaced them with some Sony "Hybrids" from MH1C, as i knew what to expect i went and tried female vocal heavy songs and i must say i am extremely pleased, half an hour listening so i can't tell in depth "impressions" but i will say my full impression probably the next days.
> 
> 
> KZ is madness, KZ is life.


 

 I'm going to ask the Obvious stupid question. where can i buy these Hybrids?  does Hybrids improve the sound quality?


----------



## EISENbricher

suneth said:


> I'm going to ask the Obvious stupid question. where can i buy these Hybrids?  does Hybrids improve the sound quality?


 
 They are easily available on eBay. Sony Hybrids are medium-small bore tips made of high quality soft silicone material and would fit to a wide range of earphones thanks to their flexibility. 
 Hybrids are known for smoothing the highs and enhancing low end of freq spectrum. They are really comfortable in ear.
  
 I am using Sony Hybrids (Small size) on ED9 and from my eartips collection I find these most suitable with ED9. YMMV.


----------



## CoiL

> Hybrids are known for smoothing the highs and enhancing low end of freq spectrum.


 
 Haven`t tried Sony Hybrids yet but by this description I wouldn`t recommend them for ATE.
 With ED9 they should be great though.


----------



## cheeto

eisenbricher said:


> They are easily available on eBay. Sony Hybrids are medium-small bore tips made of high quality soft silicone material and would fit to a wide range of earphones thanks to their flexibility.
> Hybrids are known for smoothing the highs and enhancing low end of freq spectrum. They are really comfortable in ear.
> 
> I am using Sony Hybrids (Small size) on ED9 and from my eartips collection I find these most suitable with ED9. YMMV.


 
  
 I bought two sets from different sellers and I found a difference on the material used on both. One I can say that is not a fake, the other hmmm not so much, they were really hard and uncomfortable. 
  
 This is the seller where I got my good ones from http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Pairs-Silicone-Hybrid-Replacement-Earbuds-Eartips-for-Sony-XBA-MDR-DR-Series-/281687360464?


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for link cheeto, I made order for 2 sets. Also before that took 2 sets from here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311164122264?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Are those good?


----------



## EISENbricher

cheeto said:


> I bought two sets from different sellers and I found a difference on the material used on both. One I can say that is not a fake, the other hmmm not so much, they were really hard and uncomfortable.
> 
> This is the seller where I got my good ones from http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Pairs-Silicone-Hybrid-Replacement-Earbuds-Eartips-for-Sony-XBA-MDR-DR-Series-/281687360464?


 
 Surely those aren't the original ones, just colored to match appearance. Sony Hybrids can't be so cheap. Even in Japan they cost above $10 for 3 pairs.
 In fact, the cheapest I've ever seen online for original Sony Hybrids was from eBay seller 'AkibaShipping' and that was about $16 for 3 pairs. 
  
 I got my tips with my XB90EX. 
  
 Check this for original sets : http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001RB24UA/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new


----------



## cheeto

eisenbricher said:


> Surely those aren't the original ones, just colored to match appearance. Sony Hybrids can't be so cheap. Even in Japan they cost above $10 for 3 pairs.
> In fact, the cheapest I've ever seen online for original Sony Hybrids was from eBay seller 'AkibaShipping' and that was about $16 for 3 pairs.
> 
> I got my tips with my XB90EX.
> ...


 
  
 I could be wrong with those, though at least for me they worked well with a pair of Monoprice 9927. On those I tried so many different types of tips and finally found a something that worked. I'll buy a pair from the AkibaShipping store and see how they compare.
  


coil said:


> Thanks for link cheeto, I made order for 2 sets. Also before that took 2 sets from here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311164122264?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> Are those good?


 
  
 Imho I wouldn't be able to tell you. All the sellers of hybrid Sony tips on ebay that come from China/Hong Kong use the same stock picture to show the product.


----------



## ayao

eartips said:


> these kz ate in-ears are good
> and this nice deal for ed9


 
 Thanks for the link, I haven't seen the ED9 this low before! Just ordered one, hope it's as good as everyone says it is!!


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> cheeto said:
> 
> 
> > I bought two sets from different sellers and I found a difference on the material used on both. One I can say that is not a fake, the other hmmm not so much, they were really hard and uncomfortable.
> ...


 

 Sony sells them for 9$: http://store.sony.com/ep-ex10a-blk-zid27-EPEX10A/BLK/cat-27-catid-All-Portable-Audio-Headphones-Cushions


----------



## hoshiyomi

eartips said:


> these kz ate in-ears are good
> and this nice deal for ed9


 
 Has anyone bought and received from TomBuy yet?
  
 I got a pair while it was around $10 (in transit), but at this price I might even get a few more and distribute them as gifts.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Sony sells them for 9$: http://store.sony.com/ep-ex10a-blk-zid27-EPEX10A/BLK/cat-27-catid-All-Portable-Audio-Headphones-Cushions


 
 Include shipping prices too, friend. There ain't free shipping.


----------



## hoshiyomi

regarding being able to get ed9 from kz official store:
  

 He Yue​ 04:40 May 24,2015​ 
   Thanks ,we plan activity about ed9, if you can wait ~~, then will have gift for fans 
 any way, thanks very much of your support 









 Me​ 02:21 May 24,2015​ 
   When will you start to sell ED9?
 I would prefer to purchase from KZ than another aliexpress seller.


----------



## EarTips

ayao said:


> Thanks for the link, I haven't seen the ED9 this low before! Just ordered one, hope it's as good as everyone says it is!!


 
 u r welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


hoshiyomi said:


> Has anyone bought and received from TomBuy yet?
> 
> I got a pair while it was around $10 (in transit), but at this price I might even get a few more and distribute them as gifts.


 
  
 Well, from the 98.1% positive feedback score, it looks not too bad n seems legit.
  
 Note: Using mobile phone to order costs even lesser


----------



## RedTwilight

hoshiyomi said:


> regarding being able to get ed9 from kz official store:
> 
> 
> He Yue​ 04:40 May 24,2015​
> ...


----------



## ilikeiem

eartips said:


> u r welcome
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you buy 2 pairs, it costs even lesser.  It's the best deal I've ever seen.


----------



## AlecR

Got my SEs today. Don't know why I ordered these tbh, does anyone want them?


----------



## Ruben123

I think shipping costs are 99% of a new one  keep them for when you need a present!


----------



## EarTips

ilikeiem said:


> If you buy 2 pairs, it costs even lesser.  It's the best deal I've ever seen.


 

 fantastic deal isn't it


----------



## TwinACStacks

I can't Stand controversy *SO........* I just ordered the ED8 so I can compare it with my ED9.....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> I can't Stand controversy *SO........* I just ordered the ED8 so I can compare it with my ED9.....
> 
> :rolleyes:  TWIN


They are boomy and have half the resolution of the ed9.

If you like warm sound and lots of timbre you're going to enjoy them.


----------



## CoiL

For me ED9 with tuned brass filter is the king of KZ atm., even though ATE is also very good with hole-mod, I still rank ED9 higher due to great detail retrieval.
  
 I`m experimenting more with my modding. I don`t recommend to cut off ATE nozzle tips with grills... more or less same sound. I did it only to make fit/sealing better for my small ear canals. 
 I think I will soon "cut" this baby open and see what`s inside... seems that there is something in front of driver. Maybe some damping.


----------



## jj69

ilikeiem said:


> If you buy 2 pairs, it costs even lesser.  It's the best deal I've ever seen.


 
  
 Damn.  I ordered two pairs, then I that the review/comments.  Most people say they received the MIC version.  I HATE mics on my IEMs!  Just sent seller a note asking if no-mic version is available.


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> For me ED9 with tuned brass filter is the king of KZ atm., even though ATE is also very good with hole-mod, I still rank ED9 higher due to great detail retrieval.
> 
> I`m experimenting more with my modding. I don`t recommend to cut off ATE nozzle tips with grills... more or less same sound. I did it only to make fit/sealing better for my small ear canals.
> I think I will soon "cut" this baby open and see what`s inside... seems that there is something in front of driver. Maybe some damping.


 

 Yeah, detail of ATE is really a mediocrity. Now I believe B3 should be far more better than ATE.  I just wonder how about burning in. But I still think it's good for symphony. It has enough vigor and whole picture. But make easy to feel boring dut to its lack of details.


----------



## EISENbricher

twinacstacks said:


> I can't Stand controversy *SO........* I just ordered the ED8 so I can compare it with my ED9.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Like Hisound said they are boomy but really do shine in some aspects. Pair with colder source/amp for good results. In my case Topping NX1 does the job as it's a slightly cold sounding amp. Perfect for taming bassy IEMs.


----------



## CoiL

> Yeah, detail of ATE is really a mediocrity.


 
 I didn`t say that. ED9 is just superior. Stock and modded ATE have certainly above mediocre details but certainly less than HB3Pro1.
 Imo, contrary, it isn`t boring and very enjoyable for long sessions.


----------



## Hisoundfi

To my ears the ATE tuning sits right in between the two filters of the ed9.


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> I didn`t say that. ED9 is just superior. Stock and modded ATE have certainly above mediocre details but certainly less than HB3Pro1.
> Imo, contrary, it isn`t boring and very enjoyable for long sessions.


 

 Well, it depends on what you'll compare to. Not metion those high end ones, even to EDSE, 8320, I think ATE also failes.


----------



## CoiL

Actually, I think ATE might be better in certain details "areas" than EDSE but haven`t compared head to head yet. The thing is, EDSE has some major flaws (both, in design & sound) which make them pretty unusable for me. With ATE everything is great and I can enjoy music. You are talking about ATE "failure" like it`s really bad in details... it`s not, just isn`t so good in that certain "area" but still very good.


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Actually, I think ATE might be better in certain details "areas" than EDSE but haven`t compared head to head yet. The thing is, EDSE has some major flaws (both, in design & sound) which make them pretty unusable for me. With ATE everything is great and I can enjoy music. You are talking about ATE "failure" like it`s really bad in details... it`s not, just isn`t so good in that certain "area" but still very good.


 

 I was only talking about details. I also like ATE more than EDSE.


----------



## CoiL

Wait, what were You talking about then? I think You just jumped out of context. I was talking about Your "Mediocre details" claim in case of ATE.


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Wait, what were You talking about then? I think You just jumped out of context. I was talking about Your "Mediocre details" claim in case of ATE.


 

 Sorry. Wrong. You are right.


----------



## cheeto

jj69 said:


> Damn.  I ordered two pairs, then I that the review/comments.  Most people say they received the MIC version.  I HATE mics on my IEMs!  Just sent seller a note asking if no-mic version is available.


 
  
 I just got an answer from the seller and he states that it is the version without the mic.
  
 So...........
  

  
 I'll be like Oprah and everyone in my family will get an ED9.


----------



## EarTips

eartips said:


> ed9


 
  
 Received the message from the above seller,
  
 The package includes:
 "1X In ear Headphone, and it doesn't have a double sets of nozzles or few sets of eartips"
  
 So, it's better to message them if you need further clarification.


----------



## chavez

Soooooo its only ED9 and nothing else?


----------



## EarTips

IMO, they probably send only the ed9 earphone with one set of nozzles and eartips.


----------



## ilikeiem

eartips said:


> IMO, they probably send only the ed9 earphone with one set of nozzles and eartips.


 
  
 If it comes with KZ retail box, that should be OK.


----------



## jj69

ilikeiem said:


>


 
  
 I got the same response - that they do not have the MIC. 
  
 However, it seems odd that they would ship them without the accessories.  It's not like a few eartips and a pair of tiny nozzles would reduce the shipping cost. 
  
 The description clearly states: "ED9-- a bit extreme to define new flagship headset, a patented variable tuning device (patent number: ZL201120401183.6)," so they should be included.  They're useless to me without the brass nozzles. 
  
 It's more likely the seller never even opened the box and has no idea what is included with them.  They appear to be primarily a cell phone retailer. 
  
 I just sent a follow-up question: "Do they come in the retail box with all accessories?" 
  
 Better to keep the questions simple.


----------



## kaiteck

Looking for balanced/warm KZ iem :3
 Budget under 100
 able to get it from taobao


----------



## Ruben123

Yeah would be great if ed9 could be neutral-warm, instead of on the bright side of neutral. Anyhow fortunately there is EQ.

And: didn't ask it the right way last time, but how well do ed9s isolate? Noise from outside it is. Need it for in bus/train and don't want to damage my hearing so the lower the volume the better!


----------



## EISENbricher

kaiteck said:


> Looking for balanced/warm KZ iem :3
> Budget under 100
> able to get it from taobao


 
 Would suggest ED9. With gold filter and narrow bore tips it should be warm enough.
  


ruben123 said:


> Yeah would be great if ed9 could be neutral-warm, instead of on the bright side of neutral. Anyhow fortunately there is EQ.
> 
> And: didn't ask it the right way last time, but how well do ed9s isolate? Noise from outside it is. Need it for in bus/train and don't want to damage my hearing so the lower the volume the better!


 
 They are average at isolation. It's an open back design so it's pretty obvious.


----------



## Suneth

hoshiyomi said:


> regarding being able to get ed9 from kz official store:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ruben123

eisenbricher said:


> Would suggest ED9. With gold filter and narrow bore tips it should be warm enough.
> 
> They are average at isolation. It's an open back design so it's pretty obvious.


 

 I know  But are they usable on the street/bus? Or are there much better choices then?


----------



## Ira Delphic

eisenbricher said:


> twinacstacks said:
> 
> 
> > I can't Stand controversy *SO........* I just ordered the ED8 so I can compare it with my ED9.....
> ...


 
  
 And the ergonomics/fit of the ED8 imo is really dreadful. Too big, too heavy, - excessive amount of metal used for whatever reason. I mention this for anyone considering. And same issue to a lesser extent for the ED9. At least the ED9 sounds great. Nice soundstage, controlled bass, and the treble is about the best on KZ. Up there with EDSE.


----------



## aspire5550

Have been a lurker for awhile but decided to create an account to comment here.
  
 I have an ed9,I have something to ask to all headfi-ers here. There are holes at the bottom of each side of the earphone.( near where the cable is connected to the earphone ) For my unit, I noticed that one of it is actually blocked by some kind of glue, Before I poke it, I want to make sure that this is indeed supposed to be an unblocked hole. I tried taking a picture of it to show, but it's quite difficult to get a good photo of it to show that there's something there.


----------



## ilikeiem

aspire5550 said:


> Have been a lurker for awhile but decided to create an account to comment here.
> 
> I have an ed9,I have something to ask to all headfi-ers here. There are holes at the bottom of each side of the earphone.( near where the cable is connected to the earphone ) For my unit, I noticed that one of it is actually blocked by some kind of glue, Before I poke it, I want to make sure that this is indeed supposed to be an unblocked hole. I tried taking a picture of it to show, but it's quite difficult to get a good photo of it to show that there's something there.


 
  
 Don't worry about that. Take a look at the back of ED9.
  

  
 Did you see circular shape filter? There are plenty of holes on that filter.
  

  
 If you remove the filter, there is a biggest hole ... LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  and it sounds great. 
  

  
 Have fun!


----------



## aspire5550

ilikeiem said:


> Don't worry about that. Take a look at the back of ED9.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm, so that small hole doesn't have any effect on the sound at all? I think there might be some effect. Don't think they will include a hole for nothing.Just a matter of whether the difference is big or small.
 Can you try poking the hole with a needle? I tried poking into the one without glue, it managed to go in approximately 1 - 2mm. Tried to get rid of the glue with the needle but it's quite stubborn and can't really make it go away. :/


----------



## peter123

ira delphic said:


> And the ergonomics/fit of the ED9 imo is really dreadful. Too big, too heavy, - excessive amount of metal used for whatever reason. I mention this for anyone considering. And same issue to a lesser extent for the ED9. At least the ED9 sounds great. Nice soundstage, controlled bass, and the treble is about the best on KZ. Up there with EDSE.




Remember that fit is highly individual. I've got no problem at all with the fit (or weight for that matter) so ymmw. 

Iirc correct the ED9 weight is 7g, not a big deal to me....


----------



## Ruben123

peter123 said:


> Remember that fit is highly individual. I've got no problem at all with the fit (or weight for that matter) so ymmw.
> 
> Iirc correct the ED9 weight is 7g, not a big deal to me....


 

 I think he meant ED8


----------



## Ira Delphic

ruben123 said:


> peter123 said:
> 
> 
> > Remember that fit is highly individual. I've got no problem at all with the fit (or weight for that matter) so ymmw.
> ...


 
  
 Yes - ED8 and ED9 to a lesser extent. If you don't have a problem - that's great. I'm just letting people know considering the ED8.
 IMO it's a lack if refinement in design - size and weight. I corrected my original post.


----------



## peter123

ruben123 said:


> I think he meant ED8







ira delphic said:


> Yes - ED8 and ED9 to a lesser extent. If you don't have a problem - that's great. I'm just letting people know considering the ED8.
> IMO it's a lack if refinement in design - size and weight. I corrected my original post.




Sorry guys, my bad


----------



## EISENbricher

peter123 said:


> Remember that fit is highly individual. I've got no problem at all with the fit (or weight for that matter) so ymmw.
> 
> Iirc correct the ED9 weight is 7g, not a big deal to me....


 
 +1
  
 Yeah ED8 was not a good fit with stock eartips but a little swap with some other set and it offered very good seal. Weight was an issue a little but got used to it. 
  
 Guys, I'm mainly talking about the sound. Fit and other comes later. There are a lot of earphones that sound wonderful but have such dreadful issues.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Okay so not to be left out I just ordered the EDSE from Ali too. I have the ED9s, currently burning in. I am Waiting on delivery of the ATE and ED8s, and NOW ,the EDSE. It certainly looks well built. Kinda reminds me of the DUNU DN2000. Do we have any mods for THIS little gem I need to be aware of?
  
 Thanx. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

kaiteck said:


> Looking for balanced/warm KZ iem :3
> Budget under 100
> able to get it from taobao


 
 ATE. Sealing is also good without hole-mod.


----------



## aspire5550

twinacstacks said:


> Okay so not to be left out I just ordered the EDSE from Ali too. I have the ED9s, currently burning in. I am Waiting on delivery of the ATE and ED8s, and NOW ,the EDSE. It certainly looks well built. Kinda reminds me of the DUNU DN2000. Do we have any mods for THIS little gem I need to be aware of?
> 
> Thanx.
> 
> ...


 
  


coil said:


> ATE. Sealing is also good without hole-mod.


 

 Hi, do you have any comments about the small hole at the bottom of the earphones of ed9 right beside where the cable went into the housing? 

 Mine seems blocked.


----------



## TwinACStacks

aspire5550 said:


> Hi, do you have any comments about the small hole at the bottom of the earphones of ed9 right beside where the cable went into the housing?
> 
> Mine seems blocked.


 





 Never Noticed. I will have to take a look next break in the Burn-in process....
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Addiction is a terrible thing. I just Pledged on Kickstarter for a Pair of *FLARE AUDIO* R2A's in Black.....
  
 I prefer to call it Gear Acquisition Syndrome.
  








 TWIN


----------



## altrunox

Ey, the new case from KZ looks really sexy!
  
 http://pt.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-B1-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphones-Storage-Case-Bag/1358152_32333918954.html
  
 Wonder if it could fit the Xduoo X2
  
 BTW, anyone with the KZ LP3 yet?


----------



## EISENbricher

altrunox said:


> Ey, the new case from KZ looks really sexy!
> 
> http://pt.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-B1-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphones-Storage-Case-Bag/1358152_32333918954.html
> 
> ...



Oho yes... I'd get one for my X2 if it fits 
Judging from the comparative size, I don't think X2 will fit in. See the pic with EDSE in, and it looks full already. I have similar shaped Sony case which can easily fit 2 EDSE but still small for X2.


----------



## Wanderluster

altrunox said:


> Ey, the new case from KZ looks really sexy!
> 
> http://pt.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-B1-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphones-Storage-Case-Bag/1358152_32333918954.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 The case sure is expensive on aliexpress. It's only 5 yuans on taobao (0.8$), ordered two along with ATE and ED9.
 Can't wait to try them, my brother will be bringing them back next week.


----------



## AlecR

See it looks cheaper on Taobao but when you pay all the forwarding fees it ends up being the same price or even more.


----------



## Wanderluster

alecr said:


> See it looks cheaper on Taobao but when you pay all the forwarding fees it ends up being the same price or even more.


 
  
 Sure but KZ iems are pretty much the same price on taobao and aliexpress so I expected the case's price to be close too.
 If you just buy one case then of course shipping accounts for a large part of the price. If you buy several or group the order with IEMs then you're paying much more because the price doesn't go down and you're paying shipping fees multiple times.


----------



## jj69

wanderluster said:


> The case sure is expensive on aliexpress. It's only 5 yuans on taobao (0.8$), ordered two along with ATE and ED9.
> Can't wait to try them, my brother will be bringing them back next week.


 
  
 I ordered a few days ago from this seller when it was only $1.85 with free shipping to the US:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-B1-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphones-Storage-Case-Bag/32333918954.html
  
 I'd wait a few days.  I'm sure it will go back down.


----------



## kaiteck

About the case, Some alternatives cheap can consider
  
 http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Carrying-Hard-Hold-Case-Storage-Bag-for-Earphone-Headphone-SD-Card-/161471773259?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item259877ba4b
  
 http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/391082443320?var=660454148443&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


----------



## sbose

guys
 is KZ CM9 better then the ED9 ?
 someone with a KZCM9 please tell me how it sounds.


----------



## Suneth

altrunox said:


> Ey, the new case from KZ looks really sexy!
> 
> 
> http://pt.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-B1-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphones-Storage-Case-Bag/1358152_32333918954.html
> ...


 

 Too bad i ordered the case from KZ store with my ATE last week but it was the round case and weird thing is my purchase of round case is in the feedback of the link you provided.


----------



## CoiL

aspire5550 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ATE. Sealing is also good without hole-mod.
> ...


 
 As much as I have experimented - with ED9 that small hole doesn`t matter at all. Like I said before already, ED9 is like "full-open" design... taking off back grill or closing those holes didn`t affect sound imo. At least not in clearly noticeable way. 
  
 Btw, has anyone tried those KZ silicones?: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HIFI-earphone-headphone-ED9-ED3-S6-ATE-ED2-Medical-silicone-earbuds-pads-Small-Medium-Big/32357942858.html
 Are they good?
  
 Edit:
  
 R.I.P. my sweet mod victim ATE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 Do not try to remove Your ATE drivers! Even if You get somehow clear from the glue, it is very easy to damage membrane connection wires. I tried second driver more carefully but still killed it.
  
 Will order new ATE`s for modding


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> As much as I have experimented - with ED9 that small hole doesn`t matter at all. Like I said before already, ED9 is like "full-open" design... taking off back grill or closing those holes didn`t affect sound imo. At least not in clearly noticeable way.
> 
> Btw, has anyone tried those KZ silicones?: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HIFI-earphone-headphone-ED9-ED3-S6-ATE-ED2-Medical-silicone-earbuds-pads-Small-Medium-Big/32357942858.html
> Are they good?
> ...




Maaaan...I'm still waiting for my first pair to arrive :/


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> As much as I have experimented - with ED9 that small hole doesn`t matter at all. Like I said before already, ED9 is like "full-open" design... taking off back grill or closing those holes didn`t affect sound imo. At least not in clearly noticeable way.
> 
> Btw, has anyone tried those KZ silicones?: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HIFI-earphone-headphone-ED9-ED3-S6-ATE-ED2-Medical-silicone-earbuds-pads-Small-Medium-Big/32357942858.html
> Are they good?
> ...


 





 Ah...... And you were making such progress, Grasshopper.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

This is progress!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I know what`s inside and what to do/experiment


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> As much as I have experimented - with ED9 that small hole doesn`t matter at all. Like I said before already, ED9 is like "full-open" design... taking off back grill or closing those holes didn`t affect sound imo. At least not in clearly noticeable way.
> 
> Btw, has anyone tried those KZ silicones?: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HIFI-earphone-headphone-ED9-ED3-S6-ATE-ED2-Medical-silicone-earbuds-pads-Small-Medium-Big/32357942858.html
> Are they good?
> ...




Wow that's a heck of an autopsy. About those eartips, i wonder what effect those 'turbine blade' bits will have on the sealing and sound.


----------



## EISENbricher

I have those whirlwind tips and I find that the fins just make the tips stiffer compared to stock/hybrid tips. Personally that leads to slight discomfort for me.


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> As much as I have experimented - with ED9 that small hole doesn`t matter at all. Like I said before already, ED9 is like "full-open" design... taking off back grill or closing those holes didn`t affect sound imo. At least not in clearly noticeable way.
> 
> Btw, has anyone tried those KZ silicones?: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HIFI-earphone-headphone-ED9-ED3-S6-ATE-ED2-Medical-silicone-earbuds-pads-Small-Medium-Big/32357942858.html
> Are they good?
> ...


 
 You almost ate it... 
  
 Those silicon tips are "whirlwind" by name and I had them as stock-3 pairs/same blue from one of my unknown chinese IEMs that I had to include when I gave away due to the spiral lines which were uncomfortable/didn't fit well (any size) to me, reason being they are bit strong not flexible as regular silicon tips.....
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-silicon-whirlwind-eartips-earbuds-mushroom-ear-cushion-with-double-colors-wholesale-for-Munitio-NOCS/1183804_1689797619.html


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for all the info about whirlwind silicones  Won`t order them. I need smallest and softest silicone tips. Hopefully will get my Sony Hybrids soon.
 Any other recommendations about very soft small silicones? Atm the best I have are Piston 2, some white ones that I got from ebay (using with ED9) and some red/yellow ones also from ebay which are pretty good.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Thanks for all the info about whirlwind silicones  Won`t order them. I need smallest and softest silicone tips. Hopefully will get my Sony Hybrids soon.
> Any other recommendations about very soft small silicones? Atm the best I have are Piston 2, some white ones that I got from ebay (using with ED9) and some red/yellow ones also from ebay which are pretty good.


 
 JVC Spiral Dots are pretty good and among the best tips available.


----------



## asusual150

This case is pretty much the same thing from ebay! You can pay with paypal too 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/271542199508?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## CoiL

Any experience here with Spinfit tips?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spinfit-Tips-Authentic-Spinfits-brand-new-from-Japan-/171774365083?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27fe8ccd9b
 They should be really soft and make good fit for ED9 ...seems so.
  
 JVC Spiral Dots are very hard to get in S size. The same seller also provides them but thinking about getting Spinfit...
  
 Atm I`m using these (white/small) with my ED9: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compatible-With-MDR-EX-Series-Ear-Bud-Gel-Tips-Various-Colours-x-6-Pieces-/271878780728?
 They are made from very soft silicone but they are littlebit "short", though they seal very well. Note - red/yellow from same listing is not from so soft silicone and not so thin but also pretty good.


----------



## nokitron

Hello.
  
 Quick talk, would you rather buy ED-9 or Vsonic GR02? They both seem cool, but I need your expert opinion, guys. Thanks a lot!


----------



## CoiL

Quick question - what kind of sound signature are You looking for (what kind of aspects You like in sound and what You don`t want)?


----------



## nokitron

Uhh, basically I am looking for an all-rounder. I love sound clarity and nice soundstage, but if I could find something greater than my current Soundmagic ES18(in a similar value range) I'd be very grateful. So what's your suggestion, sir?


----------



## CoiL

> looking for an all-rounder.I love sound clarity and nice soundstage


 
  
 Go for ED9


----------



## nokitron

Nice, but may I ask you what GR02 is superior at?


----------



## ilikeiem

nokitron said:


> Nice, but may I ask you what GR02 is superior at?


 
 IMHO, value of a brand name.


----------



## TwinACStacks

There have only been 2 'phones recently that I had any issues with. Vsonic GR07 Classics and Havi B3 Pro 1. Let me explain.
  
 I put 100 hrs on the GR07 after first trying it when I received them expecting GREAT things from all the hype. No matter what I tried I could not get them to fit or get a good seal, and they sounded THIN and TINNY. After 100 Hrs.Burn-In, they sounded just as bad or worse. I immediately sold them on Ebay.
  
 The Havis are a different story. They are a superb sounding set, but my reaction to their voicing was Meh? I would assume these would be a TRUE Audiophiles delight, which I obviously am not. Almost Flat Response, great Soundstage and Articulate, but left me wanting more, so I gave them More. They are extremely hard to drive. I had plenty of Power using my E12 amp with the Gain Boost, but they still had no Bass, or at least as much as I like and I'm NO Basshead. So I used the E12s Bass Boost. This is where they became intolerable for me, at sufficient Volume and Bass boost for EDM or Trance they ACTUALLY DISTORTED. For me this is a deal Breaker, End of Story. The Havis are a superb phone for Acoustic or Classical low volume listening, but simply not for me. JMHO
  
 I have been Utterly Spoiled by the Dunu Titan 1.
  








TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

twinacstacks said:


> There have only been 2 'phones recently that I had any issues with. Vsonic GR07 Classics and Havi B3 Pro 1. Let me explain.
> 
> I put 100 hrs on the GR07 after first trying it when I received them expecting GREAT things from all the hype. No matter what I tried I could not get them to fit or get a good seal, and they sounded THIN and TINNY. After 100 Hrs.Burn-In, they sounded just as bad or worse. I immediately sold them on Ebay.
> 
> ...


 
 I hated my Havis since I got them and I don't really sell my stuff so they were just sitting inside my shelf. But recently got Xduoo X2 DAP and paired with these they sound fantastic. Now I love them. They just need a warm source (X2's eq needs to be set to Rock for that bass boost). Still bassheads would find it dry.


----------



## CoiL

Twin ...basically same experience (except amping) with HaviB3P1 here also, You`re not alone


----------



## aspire5550

Anyone heard of the UD120 DAC? It's a really good budget dac apparently. Anyone here paired it with KZ ED9?


----------



## ilikeiem

aspire5550 said:


> Anyone heard of the UD120 DAC? It's a really good budget dac apparently. Anyone here paired it with KZ ED9?


 
 Inside UD120, there is TI PCM5102A DAC chip. It lacks of cleanliness if you compare it to more expensive DAC. Anyway, you got what you paid for. KZ-ED9 still has good performance even with cheaper DAC.


----------



## peter123

twinacstacks said:


> There have only been 2 'phones recently that I had any issues with. Vsonic GR07 Classics and Havi B3 Pro 1. Let me explain.
> 
> I put 100 hrs on the GR07 after first trying it when I received them expecting GREAT things from all the hype. No matter what I tried I could not get them to fit or get a good seal, and they sounded THIN and TINNY. After 100 Hrs.Burn-In, they sounded just as bad or worse. I immediately sold them on Ebay.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sorry if I've missed anything but how is this post relevant to this thread?


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> I'm sorry if I've missed anything but how is this post relevant to this thread?




Earlier talk of the Havis vs. KZ stuff...disappointment....and the Titans rock, so they should be mentioned in every thread :3


----------



## yangian

Yes, it's easy to be spoiled by one's favorite earphomes. That's does not means others are not that good. Only means one's prefered is his meal.


----------



## sodesuka

Any news about the upcoming KZ iem?
  
  
 So, I tried removing the cotton I've stuffed in the gold filter of ED9 and the high immediately became harsher, I think the bass and mid also became a bit less full bodied. I should get off my lazy ass and cut some foams for modding and find the holy grail.


----------



## HraD2

Guys, can anyone compare ED9 vs GR (with hole in red nozzle)?


----------



## CoiL

ED9 is better in... every way! Belive me!  GR is intimate, small soundstage and ED9 has noticeably better separation/imaging/soundstage/clarity.


----------



## TwinACStacks

peter123 said:


> I'm sorry if I've missed anything but how is this post relevant to this thread?


 






 Someone was referring to a GR02 which reminded me of my experience with Vsonic. Sorry if I went off track. Needless to say I am soured on anything Vsonic related.
  








 TWIN


----------



## aaDee

Here is the crazy deal of the day. KZ-ED9 for $6.13
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html


----------



## yangian

aadee said:


> Here is the crazy deal of the day. KZ-ED9 for $6.13
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html


 

 Thanks very much!


----------



## aaDee

yangian said:


> Thanks very much!


----------



## sbose

aadee said:


> Here is the crazy deal of the day. KZ-ED9 for $6.13
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html


 

 Thank you..


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> Earlier talk of the Havis vs. KZ stuff...disappointment....and the Titans rock, so they should be mentioned in every thread :3




Haha, I understand I'll make a memory note about it for future reference 



twinacstacks said:


> Someone was referring to a GR02 which reminded me of my experience with Vsonic. Sorry if I went off track. Needless to say I am soured on anything Vsonic related.
> 
> TWIN




Ok, I understand.


----------



## jj69

Originally Posted by *aaDee* 


  
  Here is the crazy deal of the day. KZ-ED9 for $6.13
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html
  
 =====

  
 FYI, I asked this seller if this is the version with or without mic (without) and exactly what comes with the ED9.  Here's the question and response:
  
 Q: Do they come in the retail box with all accessories?
  
 A: Dear buyer,
 Thanks for your message.
 We've learnt your confusion and checked it for you. We're sorry to tell you that the package is not a retail box but with all the necessary accessories. Please don't worry. Thanks for your interest in our products. Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.
 Best regards.
  
  
 Note: I believe this means they come with the plastic box shown in his photos and with all the 3 sets of eartips + 1 extra set of tips and the pair of brass nozzles.  In other words, I'm assuming they're packed with exactly the same accessories they always come with.


----------



## RedTwilight

jj69 said:


> Originally Posted by *aaDee*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I sure hope so. I asked if there were additional nozzles and he said that there were 3 included so i take it to mean that there are 3 extra eartips. However @twister6 had 4 (one was a 'holder' for the extra filters) so I'm not exactly sure now. Also, I bought them literally just hours before the price drop so meh. My order has still been processing for the last 4 days, they said that there was some testing going on. Abit tempted to cancel to (ab)use the crazy discount but that would be an *ss move.


----------



## smy1

redtwilight said:


> I sure hope so. I asked if there were additional nozzles and he said that there were 3 included so i take it to mean that there are 3 extra eartips. However @twister6
> had 4 (one was a 'holder' for the extra filters) so I'm not exactly sure now. Also, I bought them literally just hours before the price drop so meh. My order has still been processing for the last 4 days, they said that there was some testing going on. Abit tempted to cancel to (ab)use the crazy discount but that would be an *ss move.




Do It!


----------



## jj69

redtwilight said:


> I sure hope so. I asked if there were additional nozzles and he said that there were 3 included so i take it to mean that there are 3 extra eartips. However @twister6 had 4 (one was a 'holder' for the extra filters) so I'm not exactly sure now. Also, I bought them literally just hours before the price drop so meh. My order has still been processing for the last 4 days, they said that there was some testing going on. Abit tempted to cancel to (ab)use the crazy discount but that would be an *ss move.


 
  
 The first pair I ordered came with one small bag containing three extra sets of tips and a second small bag containing a fourth set of tips with the brass nozzles pre-installed on them.  I would consider anything else to be missing parts. 
  
 Also, if you look at the feedback left by previous buyers, the first one to leave feedback included four photos of what he received.  His photos clearly show both the plastic storage box and the extra set of nozzles and eartips.  Of course, he received the mic vesion and the seller told me I would be receiving the NO-mic version, so who knows? 
  
 Personally, I would not hesitate to cancel my order and re-order due to the price drop.  It's the seller's problem for constanatly monkeying with the prices.


----------



## acain

I received the ED9's today they are awesome for the price, it looks like everyone receives different amount of tips and packaging. Mine came in the plastic box with 2 sets of the bronze filters and 1 set of the gold They came in the plastic box with the iem's wrapped in a plastic sleeve there was no precut foam and the tips were just thrown in there. And all the tips were on the filters already, also the silicone tips were all one size (medium). I can't complain for the prices they sound just as good as some iem's 10 times there price.I paid $18 with shipping from china to the us.


----------



## RedTwilight

jj69 said:


> The first pair I ordered came with one small bag containing three extra sets of tips and a second small bag containing a fourth set of tips with the brass nozzles pre-installed on them.  I would consider anything else to be missing parts.
> 
> Also, if you look at the feedback left by previous buyers, the first one to leave feedback included four photos of what he received.  His photos clearly show both the plastic storage box and the extra set of nozzles and eartips.  Of course, he received the mic vesion and the seller told me I would be receiving the NO-mic version, so who knows?
> 
> Personally, I would not hesitate to cancel my order and re-order due to the price drop.  It's the seller's problem for constanatly monkeying with the prices.


 
  
 Ah you're right, didn't look at those photos closely enough. I had also specified to the seller that I didn't want the mic version.


----------



## RedTwilight

acain said:


> I received the ED9's today they are awesome for the price, it looks like everyone receives different amount of tips and packaging. Mine came in the plastic box with 2 sets of the bronze filters and 1 set of the gold They came in the plastic box with the iem's wrapped in a plastic sleeve there was no precut foam and the tips were just thrown in there. And all the tips were on the filters already, also the silicone tips were all one size (medium). I can't complain for the prices they sound just as good as some iem's 10 times there price.I paid $18 with shipping from china to the us.


 
  
 Are there any physical differences between the 2 brass tips?


----------



## jj69

acain said:


> I received the ED9's today they are awesome for the price, it looks like everyone receives different amount of tips and packaging. Mine came in the plastic box with 2 sets of the bronze filters and 1 set of the gold They came in the plastic box with the iem's wrapped in a plastic sleeve there was no precut foam and the tips were just thrown in there. And all the tips were on the filters already, also the silicone tips were all one size (medium). I can't complain for the prices they sound just as good as some iem's 10 times there price.I paid $18 with shipping from china to the us.


 

 That's just weird.  Why two sets of the same filter? 
  
 Which seller did you buy from, and why so expensive?  No free shipping to the US?


----------



## Ruben123

redtwilight said:


> Ah you're right, didn't look at those photos closely enough. I had also specified to the seller that I didn't want the mic version.




Why wouldn't you want a mic if it's at no extra cost?


----------



## RedTwilight

ruben123 said:


> Why wouldn't you want a mic if it's at no extra cost?


 
  
 Having a mic will cause the cable to have an additional joint, which is a potential failure point. Some people feel that it degrades the sound slightly and also (mainly) because I'll use it more often out of my DAP then my phone so it's kinda unnecessary. If it does come with one though I'm fine too.


----------



## EarTips

this ed9 going at *US $8.63* with 3 feedback score only!
 legit?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32357141244.html


----------



## nilupulss

i got kz ed2.sound is good.but bass is not what i expected.sourse mobile and laptop+viper4windows.i don't know much about sounding but i really like more bass than this.my current headphone maxell amp-b is still really bassy to me..


----------



## CoiL

I ordered 2 from here for 6.19 but now they are listed 12.5 $ : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html
  
 If I get them, will compare, open and say if they are legit. I have no reason to suspect they aren`t legit.


----------



## EarTips

coil said:


> I ordered 2 from here for 6.19 but now they are listed 12.5 $ : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html
> 
> If I get them, will compare, open and say if they are legit. I have no reason to suspect they aren`t legit.


 
 alright
 thanks


----------



## ilikeiem

Yes, my latest KZ IEM.


----------



## CoiL

wow! Cool boxing!


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Yes, my latest KZ IEM.


 
 Wow, really nice packaging. My Translucent ATE are still weeks away. 
 More pics please : )


----------



## CoiL

More important question - silver vs. translucent version sounds same?


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> wow! Cool boxing!


 

 Didn't you receive yours in a similar box?....or it varies among different sellers?....or 2 different for regular and translucent?....


----------



## CoiL

No, mine came with box like ED9 except it is see-through, like in twister6 review. I have silver version ATE.


----------



## anticute

My ED9 just stopped working. I have really enjoyed them so far, been very very happy with the sound and everything, but now they're broken. Got some kind of thin tinny mono sound out of just one headphone, and it seems like when I wiggle/push the connector it changes, so I'm guessing that the connector is faulty. Good thing I haven't left feedback on aliexpress yet, it's going to be interesting to see what the seller says..
  
 Oh well, good excuse to spend more time with my ATE I guess..


----------



## RedTwilight

ilikeiem said:


> Yes, my latest KZ IEM.




Wow nice! Now I'm really excited to receive it.


----------



## acain

redtwilight said:


> Are there any physical differences between the 2 brass tips?




Nope there the same i even measured them with verniers.


----------



## CoiL

anticute said:


> My ED9 just stopped working. I have really enjoyed them so far, been very very happy with the sound and everything, but now they're broken. Got some kind of thin tinny mono sound out of just one headphone, and it seems like when I wiggle/push the connector it changes, so I'm guessing that the connector is faulty. Good thing I haven't left feedback on aliexpress yet, it's going to be interesting to see what the seller says..
> 
> Oh well, good excuse to spend more time with my ATE I guess..


 

 If You know how to solder then just open back grill and fix the cable connection. Personally I would not bother to mess with dispute and just fix them myself... even more reason to change that pretty bad stock cable (honestly, I think it`s the worst cable with IEM I ever had).


----------



## anticute

coil said:


> If You know how to solder then just open back grill and fix the cable connection. Personally I would not bother to mess with dispute and just fix them myself... even more reason to change that pretty bad stock cable (honestly, I think it`s the worst cable with IEM I ever had).


 
 Yeah, I just might switch to another cable, I found it to be too rubbery and microphonic straight from the start anyway. Thing is, since I use them quite a lot with my phone, I'd need to get a good replacement cable with mic. I've even been thinking about buying something like an EDSE mic version and take the cable from that one, since I kind of liked the EDSE cable, but I don't know, I guess I'll have to start looking around for a place where I can find nice cables. Any tips? 
  
 Anyway, I doubt I'll even have to start a dispute. Generally, in cases like this, I've found that most aliexpress sellers rather just send you a new item than argue about it and risk negative feedback. At least if it's an inexpensive item.
  
 As for me, well.. Sure, it was only like $15, but since it only lasted a week or so, that's $2 per day, and counting like that I would have been better off with a $700 IEM if it had just lasted me a year.. 
  
 When it comes to the ATE, I've had some more time to listen to it today, and so far I'm actually pretty disappointed. When I ordered both ED9 and ATE, I assumed that the ATE would be the one with better isolation, and that the ED9 might be a bit trickier to use during my commute. It turns out that it's the opposite. ED9 works well, but even with the same foam tips, I found that ATE didn't isolate well at all, sadly. 
  
 That, combined with the fact that to my ears, the ED9 sounds a lot better, kind of makes me regret ordering that second pair of ATE, even if they do look sooooooo good in transparent black..


----------



## goa604

That plug strain relief on ED9 looks a lot worse than whats on EDSE, too bad.


----------



## TwinACStacks

. So here I am on the KZ impressions thread. Let's recap the further adventures of TWIN, shall we? When we last left our hero (MOI), I had decided that I liked the Gold Nozzles and through rolling a huge number of tips had concluded that BOTH nozzles sounded best to my ears with the Auvio Medium tips on the ED9.
  
  
*FLASH FORWARD.....*
  
 Stardate 22 37.16  We now have 125 hours on the critters and now I have time for my First real critical listen, fire them up and Things have changed in a BIG WAY, probably the most change due to burn-in I have experienced yet. Unfortunately it is NOT for the Good. The Bass has become dominant, Bloated and Slow, reaching into mid Bass and Low Mids and coloring everything. The actual Mids have become so recessed that vocals sound distant. HOWEVER the Treble is precise and Perfect. What? Well maybe I can EQ them. So I put them back to the Burn -in Station and Left for work.
  
*WHILE* I'm driving down to Cincinnati, I am pondering the change, how to correct it and disappointed as I had such high hopes. These things are as bad as BEATS or even worse.
  
*THEN IT HIT ME. "Hey Dumbass, You have another set of Nozzles!"*
  
 Is it possible?  As soon as I had a chance I slapped those bad-boy Brassies on there with the Auvio tips:
  
*OH MY GOD.*
What a phenominal Change.  They are in a word PERFECT. Bass is tight, not overbearing, Mids have movd forward and the Treble is still Perfect. Very articulate. Sound stage is not huge but focused and wide enough. Seriously, These could actually go toe to toe with Senn IE8s. No exaggeration.
  
 What I have learned about the ED9: At first You may enjoy the Party that goes on with the Gold Nozzles, but give them time to settle in and that Party is going to get old.  FAST. They really should give you a warning that says "Use Brass Nozzles after 100 Hours Use".  I can't wait to hear these at 300 Hours.
  
 The KZ ED9 is truly a Giant Killer.
  
 Best $10 bucks I ever spent.....Jeez.
  








 TWIN


----------



## RedTwilight

acain said:


> Nope there the same i even measured them with verniers.




Strange.. Anyway now you've an additional pair to mod.


----------



## jj69

> We now have 125 hours on the critters and now I have time for my First real critical listen, fire them up and Things have changed in a BIG WAY, probably the most change due to burn-in I have experienced yet. Unfortunately it is NOT for the Good. The Bass has become dominant, Bloated and Slow,


 

 To my ears, the gold nozzles sounded like this out of the box.  Bass bloated and totally unlistenable. 
  
 The bras nozzles sounded a little bass deficient out of the box, but otherwise excellent - and the anemic bass improved after just 20 hours of burnin for me. 
  
 Don't know how poeple are taking the gold nozzles seriously at all, but maybe there's some unitended variation in these?


----------



## B9Scrambler

jj69 said:


> To my ears, the gold nozzles sounded like this out of the box.  Bass bloated and totally unlistenable.
> 
> The bras nozzles sounded a little bass deficient out of the box, but otherwise excellent - and the anemic bass improved after just 20 hours of burnin for me.
> 
> Don't know how poeple are taking the gold nozzles seriously at all, but maybe there's some unitended variation in these?




I enjoy the gold nozzles. They're quite bassy, but still very detailed. I like the brass nozzles too, but only with my foam mod. Otherwise they are just too anemic in the bass dept, even with plenty of hours on em.

To each their own!


----------



## CoiL

jj69 said:


> Don't know how poeple are taking the gold nozzles seriously at all, but maybe there's some unitended variation in these?


 
 Just a reminder - it can be from source gear differences too. I also find gold nozzles V-shaped and too bassy for my taste/gear, which results slightly "recessed" mids also. They are good but brass nozzle + foam mod (if needed) is leaps above in overall SQ.
  
 But yeah, it`s all subjective and depends on many things and there never can`t be one consensus about one IEM.
 For example, contrary to Twin, I heard no "burn-in" with my ED9. And contrary to @anticute ,I actually find ATE with grill mod littlebit better in soundstage/imaging/presentation than ED9. Yes, ED9 has better microdetails and separation but I often feel like there is something littlebit wrong with soundstage.... hard to explain but sometimes I feel it is littlebit much "pulled back" towards neck. With ATE I feel whole soundstage littlebit more pushed towards front and it feels more natural. Like I told, hard to explain but I hope those who have both understand what I`m talking about. That difference isn`t big actually but for me it is there.
 Don`t get me wrong, both are very good and objectively I would still rate ED9 (with brass nozzle) above ATE.
  
 Just my subjective opinion...


----------



## EISENbricher

Source gear is definitely a significant factor, but very basic fact is that it may be just matter of personal taste, and how everyone's ears respond to different frequencies. I'd say keeping it calm and just finding what suits best for ourselves is a better idea rather than trying to compare and debate with others. They'll have different taste, might be hearing things in a different way (age, canal cavity, source gear, music genre etc comes into play) so it's actually pointless. 
  
 Simply said, what a basshead thinks 'good sounding' may be 'too much bass' for analytical sound lover and vice versa. One's 'sharp and sparkly highs' may become 'great micro details' for other.


----------



## AudioFilth

Question, are Betron and Knowledge Zenith the same company? Or are Betron just touching up some models and releasing them as their own brand? I only ask because I saw a recommendation on my Amazon account. Take a look at this:
  
Betron YSM1000




  
 KZ EDSE


----------



## TwinACStacks

jj69 said:


> To my ears, the gold nozzles sounded like this out of the box.  Bass bloated and totally unlistenable.
> 
> The bras nozzles sounded a little bass deficient out of the box, but otherwise excellent - and the anemic bass improved after just 20 hours of burnin for me.
> 
> Don't know how poeple are taking the gold nozzles seriously at all, but maybe there's some unitended variation in these?


 





 Trust me jj, the bass Fills out *considerably* during burn-in. I tend to like V or U shaped Eq's but with the Golds it was just friggin' ridiculous.
  
 I just don't recall a pair of phones that I've owned EVER changing as much. My recommendation 300 Hours, at least.
  
 Now my only concern NOW is Lead poisoning or Radiation.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Oh and that cable is still sticky. Kind of like Silicone sealant that hasn't completely cured, comes to mind. I bet a little baby powder will help though.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Just a reminder - it can be from source gear differences too. I also find gold nozzles V-shaped and too bassy for my taste/gear, which results slightly "recessed" mids also. They are good but brass nozzle + foam mod (if needed) is leaps above in overall SQ.
> 
> But yeah, it`s all subjective and depends on many things and there never can`t be one consensus about one IEM.
> For example, contrary to Twin, I heard no "burn-in" with my ED9. And contrary to @anticute ,I actually find ATE with grill mod littlebit better in soundstage/imaging/presentation than ED9. Yes, ED9 has better microdetails and separation but I often feel like there is something littlebit wrong with soundstage.... hard to explain but sometimes I feel it is littlebit much "pulled back" towards neck. With ATE I feel whole soundstage littlebit more pushed towards front and it feels more natural. Like I told, hard to explain but I hope those who have both understand what I`m talking about. That difference isn`t big actually but for me it is there.
> ...


 





 This is why Coil, That I have a Quick listen when I first get them and roll tips then come back and check them later. In this case it was about 100 Hrs. Later. Either I'm insane or it really did change that much, because when I first got them I ABSOLUTELY preferred the Gold tips over the Brass. At 100 Hrs. I couldn't stand them.
  
 Placebo? Brain Burn in? Senior moment? take your pick..
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Quote: 





coil said:


> Just a reminder - it can be from source gear differences too. I also find gold nozzles V-shaped and too bassy for my taste/gear, which results slightly "recessed" mids also. They are good but brass nozzle + foam mod (if needed) is leaps above in overall SQ.
> 
> But yeah, it`s all subjective and depends on many things and there never can`t be one consensus about one IEM.
> For example, contrary to Twin, I heard no "burn-in" with my ED9. And contrary to @anticute ,I actually find ATE with grill mod littlebit better in soundstage/imaging/presentation than ED9. Yes, ED9 has better microdetails and separation but I often feel like there is something littlebit wrong with soundstage.... hard to explain but sometimes I feel it is littlebit much "pulled back" towards neck. With ATE I feel whole soundstage littlebit more pushed towards front and it feels more natural. Like I told, hard to explain but I hope those who have both understand what I`m talking about. That difference isn`t big actually but for me it is there.
> ...


 





 Coil, I think the soundstage is a little Narrow and Focused. My understanding is the ATEs are quite a bit wider before any mods. My ATEs should be here shortly. I'm dying of curiosity. Being a proponent of Burn-in it also means I have to break out another recently unused MP3 Player for this Pair while I finish the ED9s.
  
 When I test My source and Material is always the same. I tend to use Nadia Ali / Trance mixes as there is a Huge amount of frequency variations and her voice is stunning.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Shadowsora

I just received ED9, gold nozzles sound quite like my modded mh1, airy/detailed and bassy when bass starts to roll, the treble was a bit harsh for me using PCM2704 and f2k with wasapi.
 I think for a V-shaped iem it's quite good, actually very good.
  
  
 Now the brass nozzles need a bit more listening but i think i prefer them over the golden ones.
  
 It's an interesting iem... i think i prefer ATE over them because they are a lot better for long listening sessions imo, but i am more happy about my ED9 than my ATE.
  
  
 EDIT: Hmmm ok, once again when i use different tips(Sony hybrids) the whole story changes, all i can say for the time being is: WOW.
  
 Also something about the build quality, the earpieces are superb imo, full metal housings and literally a jewel in my "collection", the cable now is another story i think it's durable but it's too difficult to "handle" and too "rubbery" i don't hate it though it's ok, it won't be a problem for me but i am sure a lot of people won't like it.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> I just received ED9, gold nozzles sound quite like my modded mh1, airy/detailed and bassy when bass starts to roll, the treble was a bit harsh for me using PCM2704 and f2k with wasapi.
> I think for a V-shaped iem it's quite good, actually very good.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good... I also love my ED9 with Sony Hybrids and brass filters.


----------



## Suneth

ilikeiem said:


> Yes, my latest KZ IEM.


 

 Wow Nice packaging. Is this the new package for transparent ATE?


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Just a reminder - it can be from source gear differences too. I also find gold nozzles V-shaped and too bassy for my taste/gear, which results slightly "recessed" mids also. They are good but brass nozzle + foam mod (if needed) is leaps above in overall SQ.
> 
> But yeah, it`s all subjective and depends on many things and there never can`t be one consensus about one IEM.
> For example, contrary to Twin, I heard no "burn-in" with my ED9. And contrary to @anticute ,I actually find ATE with grill mod littlebit better in soundstage/imaging/presentation than ED9. Yes, ED9 has better microdetails and separation but I often feel like there is something littlebit wrong with soundstage.... hard to explain but sometimes I feel it is littlebit much "pulled back" towards neck. With ATE I feel whole soundstage littlebit more pushed towards front and it feels more natural. Like I told, hard to explain but I hope those who have both understand what I`m talking about. That difference isn`t big actually but for me it is there.
> ...


 

 This agreed with my guess. For a budgeted eraphones, ATE's soundstage is really great. Comparable to those high ends with large soundstage.


----------



## yangian

twinacstacks said:


> . So here I am on the KZ impressions thread. Let's recap the further adventures of TWIN, shall we? When we last left our hero (MOI), I had decided that I liked the Gold Nozzles and through rolling a huge number of tips had concluded that BOTH nozzles sounded best to my ears with the Auvio Medium tips on the ED9.
> 
> 
> *FLASH FORWARD.....*
> ...


 

 So how about your Ed9 compared to your Titan 1?


----------



## slowpickr

yangian said:


> So how about your Ed9 compared to your Titan 1?


----------



## nilupulss

hi guys what is the best bass earbud can buy under 20$.i have kz ed2,i am looking for little more bassy one.please give me help.


----------



## TwinACStacks

slowpickr said:


>


 





 Different presentation altogether. Titan has way more detail, openess, width of soundstage and Treble, although the Treble CAN be a bit strident. I think the ED9's Treble is PERFECT. It's the strong point (for me) of the ED9. Plus the cable On the Titan is outstanding. I really Like both of them, but I have a lot more experience with the Titan. Give me some time and I may love the ED9 as much.
  
 I would recommend the Titan to anyone, No questions asked. It's in a class of it's own.
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

nilupulss said:


> hi guys what is the best bass earbud can buy under 20$.i have kz ed2,i am looking for little more bassy one.please give me help.



ED8m hands down bro.... Its a must for bassheads. Combine quality bass with deep, wide soundstage.. ED8 is very good.


----------



## chavez

eisenbricher said:


> ED8m hands down bro.... Its a must for bassheads. Combine quality bass with deep, wide soundstage.. ED8 is very good.


 
 Blue?


----------



## yangian

twinacstacks said:


> Different presentation altogether. Titan has way more detail, openess, width of soundstage and Treble, although the Treble CAN be a bit strident. I think the ED9's Treble is PERFECT. It's the strong point (for me) of the ED9. Plus the cable On the Titan is outstanding. I really Like both of them, but I have a lot more experience with the Titan. Give me some time and I may love the ED9 as much.
> 
> I would recommend the Titan to anyone, No questions asked. It's in a class of it's own.
> 
> ...


 
 How about their imaging? Their dynamic? Which is more 3D? If laying back, how much?


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Just a reminder - it can be from source gear differences too. I also find gold nozzles V-shaped and too bassy for my taste/gear, which results slightly "recessed" mids also. They are good but brass nozzle + foam mod (if needed) is leaps above in overall SQ.
> ...


 
 I wouldn`t say ATE has wider/larger soundstage, neither ED9 narrow/focused... both have very good large soundstage and width. The whole ATE soundstage just seems to be littlebit pushed towards front (leaving width same) and sounds littlebit more natural compared to ED9. Thus, maybe ATE has littlebit more depth towards front? Not sure yet.
  
 You should try different material also for test songs. It`s never good to stick with only one material and one genre.
 Some material with great mastering from Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson is very good for testing soundstage and naturality for example. 
 Also Omar Rodriguez Lopez/The Mars Volta. I would recommend some EDM too but I think much of it have lot of artificial effects and sounds which affect "result".
 But for You, this is one of my EDM soundstage testing songs out of many (I have 16/44 FLAC not Youtube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4wWr8jKrU


----------



## EISENbricher

chavez said:


> Blue?



I honestly don't hear much difference, just sometimes it feels that red packs tighter midbass punch. I like Red slightly better but maybe this is because my Blue has not burned in yet... I remember sound of my red getting much better after some burn in period. 

Regardless of this, what I said earlier about sound of ED8 is true for both colors. It just doesn't justify why would KZ put different drivers in different colors and doesn't mention it anywhere. I even did ask their customer support and they said both are same.


----------



## ilikeiem

nilupulss said:


> hi guys what is the best bass earbud can buy under 20$.*i have kz ed2,i am looking for little more bassy one*.please give me help.


 
  
 According to your needs, I think you don't need bass IEM.  I would suggest KZ-DT5 poletone.
  

  
  
 Bass IEM will look like this, KZ-RS1.  I guess you don't need this one.


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> Different presentation altogether. Titan has way more detail, openess, width of soundstage and Treble, although the Treble CAN be a bit strident. I think the ED9's Treble is PERFECT. It's the strong point (for me) of the ED9. Plus the cable On the Titan is outstanding. I really Like both of them, but I have a lot more experience with the Titan. Give me some time and I may love the ED9 as much.
> 
> I would recommend the Titan to anyone, No questions asked. It's in a class of it's own.
> 
> TWIN


I started out listening to the gold filters just like you and switched to the brass filters after a week. They are amazeballs for the price, arguably the best thing under $50


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> I started out listening to the gold filters just like you and switched to the brass filters after a week. They are amazeballs for the price, arguably the best thing under $50


 





 I believe that myself. In their price range they are most certainly in a class by themselves.
  
 I'm still waiting on the ATE's and It isn't CHINA that is holding things up. It's our scccccrewed up postal system. They came into Chicago Hub. From there it is a little more than 200 mile DUE east trip on I94 to Detroit. So what do they do out of Chicago? Send them to Kansas City Hub for delivery to Detroit. Dumb Asses.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just Got a Package today. Gentlemen introducing the KZ ATE Stealth Ediion....
  
 Pardon the Pic. Click on it to enlarge.
  
  

  
  
 It sounds Very Good. Slightly Bass-Heavy but that should settle after Burn-in. I think venting it may have boosted the Bass a little from stock.
  
 NEXT: should be the EDSE Ali is a little faster shipping than Ebay sellers.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mine came in as well. They're "slightly" huge, but still reasonably comfortable. Very smooth sounding as well. I'm liking them so far


----------



## chavez

4 pairs :O. I cant gather money for one XD .


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> 4 pairs :O. I cant gather money for one XD .




Haha....yup. I had to budget (more or less). This is a good chunk of my Xmas shopping done early, and inexpensively. Can't think of a better gift than good sound.


----------



## CoiL

> Originally Posted by *TwinACStacks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Slightly Bass-Heavy but that should settle after Burn-in.
> I think venting it may have boosted the Bass a little from stock.


 
 ATE bass heavy? ED9 with gold nozzles is certainly more bassy. Imo stock unvented ATE has pretty balanced signature.
 Venting it with grill mod just lost the "hollowness" and made everything clearer but didn`t made it noticeably more bassy.
 Maybe just tighter and more pronounced. Maybe You should try larger hole above driver?


----------



## CoiL

...
  
 double post, internet is messing with me...


----------



## Suneth

b9scrambler said:


> Mine came in as well. They're "slightly" huge, but still reasonably comfortable. Very smooth sounding as well. I'm liking them so far


 

 How do they sound?  and what is this venting mod you guys speak of?


----------



## B9Scrambler

suneth said:


> How do they sound?  and what is this venting mod you guys speak of?


 
 They're really nice. I think this is KZs best treble yet.
  
 Treble is a little more relaxed than the ED9, but cleaner and more defined (ie. lacking the teensy bit of slashyness the ED9 displays). I really like how smooth and natural vocals are. Was watching Youtube vids with them yesterday and the commentary sounded fantastic. Personally, I find the subbass lacking. That and the weird fit (which may be fine for others) are the only knocks I have against it so far. Hoping they'll be affected positively by some serious play time. The cable is fantastic, if a little sticky. Little memory, looks nice, long enough, good strain relief at the jack. I have to keep reminding myself how cheap these are, lol.
  
 I'm not sure if I like the ED9 of ATE more, but you really can't go wrong with either. If KZ  keeps pumping out awesome products like these and manages to keep the price down....well I'll be stocked.


----------



## Suneth

b9scrambler said:


> They're really nice. I think this is KZs best treble yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome. Mine arrived today and it's at the mail exchange. they will be on my doorstep tomorrow morning.can't wait   I see you have JVC FX3X rated 5th on your signature. to this day i haven't found anything that can match my lost JVC 1X1X (within all these Chinese brands)


----------



## B9Scrambler

suneth said:


> Awesome. Mine arrived today and it's at the mail exchange. they will be on my doorstep tomorrow morning.can't wait   I see you have JVC FX3X rated 5th on your signature. to this day i haven't found anything that can match my lost JVC 1X1X (within all these Chinese brands)




Awesome. Hope you enjoy them 

I've got the FX1X as well. Such a good iem, but the FX3X takes the same basic sound and refines it. To me its a definite step up. If you have the chance to pick one up, go for it. Completely worth it.


----------



## Suneth

b9scrambler said:


> Awesome. Hope you enjoy them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I'm considering. found out the ebay seller i bought my first FX1X selling them again. FX3X and FX1X both costs 27$ each not a bad deal considering how good they are


----------



## TwinACStacks

I am just Stunned. I took my ED9s on my nightly round trip (10 Hrs) from Detroit to Cincinnati and got my FIRST intimate listen. I'm at a loss for description. I'm probably going to piss off a couple of people on "Other" earphone Threads. You may recall, at 125 Hours Burn-in I had an epiphany concerning Brass over Gold Nozzles. THROW THE GOLD NOZZLES AWAY, is all that I can tell you. This was easily the most enjoyable listening experience I have personally had in some time. When I started out last night, they had 165 hours on them, they now have 174.5, (I needed .5 hr. for refueling and to go Potty).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You know I basically LOVE the DUNU TITAN. Well I hate to say it but the Titan has NOTHING on the ED9 other than a slightly different presentation. What really smacked me in the Head, (and I truly wasn't expecting it), was the DETAIL I heard in tracks I'm extremely Familiar with, that I haven't heard with other 'Phones. My impression is the ED9 is what the HAVI B3 Pro1 engineers were trying to achieve and didn't quite make it. Whereas the Havi has a veiled sound, great detail, so-so soundstage and basically ruler Flat EQ, it lacks Bass and is VERY hard to drive and leaves me with a MEH impression wanting more, The ED9's *SIMPLY *add more.
  
 How Can  You describe a Flat EQ that isn't Flat???  BALANCED, *Yes!!! BALANCED.* The ED9 presentation is not like an Earphone Presentation. It's like a 3 Way Monitor. The Bass is solid but not overbearing. Although not extremely fast it stays where it should, but when the Music calls for it, it's Authoritive. Strangely it doesn't overshadow the Mids and Treble while doing this. It is like there is a Miniature woofer, Midrange and Tweeter magically sealed inside this tiny earphone housing. I have all ready in an earlier thread, stated my thoughts on the Treble: PERFECT. It hasn't changed. It isn't silibant, harsh, strident. shrill or whatever adjective you use to explain unpleasant high Frequencies. It's simply THERE doing what Treble is supposed to do highlighting nuances. The Midrange is gorgeous. Female Vocals just come out at you, Louder than the other frequencies but again they don't overshadow them. I don't think this is actually possible is it?
  
 The ONLY Downside is the width of the Soundstage is more focused. Great Depth and Height but really towards the Center rather than in an Arch around your head. *AND the cable being slightly sticky is annoying.* Oh..... and Radiation and Lead sickness.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 So the only REAL questions I have to ask is: WHO DISCOVERED THIS BRAND, and WHY ARE WE SPENDING $$$$$ OR MORE ON EARPHONES WHEN THESE ARE UNDER $10?????
  
 I hope the rest of these KZ's even come close to their Big Brother ED9s. These are sitting right next to my Titans where they will enjoy Heavy Rotation. I am shocked and amazed and I can't wait to hear these once I get 300 Hours or so on them.
  
 Oh, and I just ordered another set of the ATEs in clear so I can have a Modded and Un-modded pair.
  
 Please understand this is NOT a review. Just some older Ears impressions of what he is hearing.
  








 TWIN


suneth said:


> Awesome. Mine arrived today and it's at the mail exchange. they will be on my doorstep tomorrow morning.can't wait   I see you have JVC FX3X rated 5th on your signature. to this day i haven't found anything that can match my lost JVC 1X1X (within all these Chinese brands)


 
  


b9scrambler said:


> They're really nice. I think this is KZs best treble yet.
> 
> Treble is a little more relaxed than the ED9, but cleaner and more defined (ie. lacking the teensy bit of slashyness the ED9 displays). I really like how smooth and natural vocals are. Was watching Youtube vids with them yesterday and the commentary sounded fantastic. Personally, I find the subbass lacking. That and the weird fit (which may be fine for others) are the only knocks I have against it so far. Hoping they'll be affected positively by some serious play time. The cable is fantastic, if a little sticky. Little memory, looks nice, long enough, good strain relief at the jack. I have to keep reminding myself how cheap these are, lol.
> 
> I'm not sure if I like the ED9 of ATE more, but you really can't go wrong with either. If KZ  keeps pumping out awesome products like these and manages to keep the price down....well I'll be stocked.


----------



## TwinACStacks

suneth said:


> Awesome. Mine arrived today and it's at the mail exchange. they will be on my doorstep tomorrow morning.can't wait   I see you have JVC FX3X rated 5th on your signature. to this day i haven't found anything that can match my lost JVC 1X1X (within all these Chinese brands)


 
  


b9scrambler said:


> They're really nice. I think this is KZs best treble yet.
> 
> Treble is a little more relaxed than the ED9, but cleaner and more defined (ie. lacking the teensy bit of slashyness the ED9 displays). I really like how smooth and natural vocals are. Was watching Youtube vids with them yesterday and the commentary sounded fantastic. Personally, I find the subbass lacking. That and the weird fit (which may be fine for others) are the only knocks I have against it so far. Hoping they'll be affected positively by some serious play time. The cable is fantastic, if a little sticky. Little memory, looks nice, long enough, good strain relief at the jack. I have to keep reminding myself how cheap these are, lol.
> 
> I'm not sure if I like the ED9 of ATE more, but you really can't go wrong with either. If KZ  keeps pumping out awesome products like these and manages to keep the price down....well I'll be stocked.


 





 After my experience with a fairly well Burnt in pair of ED9s last night I find it hard to believe there is any better treble, any where. Of Course I just got my ATEs Yesterday so My opinion could change.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## chavez

Well,the original poster found them  .


----------



## Grayson73

You guys said ED9 is the best for pop and EDM, right?
  
 Is this the best place to buy them?  12.29 without microphone and 13.18 with microphone?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo-Earplug/32358133991.html


----------



## mebaali

grayson73 said:


> You guys said ED9 is the best for pop and EDM, right?
> 
> Is this the best place to buy them?  12.29 without microphone and 13.18 with microphone?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo-Earplug/32358133991.html


 
 I bought mine from this seller for US $10 few weeks back (without retail box) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32335920421.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> After my experience with a fairly well Burnt in pair of ED9s last night I find it hard to believe there is any better treble, any where. Of Course I just got my ATEs Yesterday so My opinion could change.
> 
> TWIN




I just find the treble a tad undefined and splashy. Not bad by any means, just not my preference. In comparison the notes sound thicker on the ATE, but are also better defined.


----------



## RedTwilight

Ah man. The seller I got it from ran out of stock as my order was processing.. Now i'm kinda stuck at that stage cos no one is selling the ED9s for $10 anymore.


----------



## Etzer

Heads up, guys! There's a seller on Amazon that has the ED9 for $16.95 with Prime shipping (ships from U.S.). Only 7 left in stock!
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WU5ZTPE


----------



## CoiL

I bought 2 for 6.19$ piece from aliexpress... why should someone buy it for 17$?


----------



## Etzer

coil said:


> I bought 2 for 6.19$ from aliexpress... why should someone buy it for 17$?


 

 Eh, not sure that's a fair comparison. That $6.19 was a limited time offer. You can find the ED9 for ~$13 on Aliexpress now. For some people, that extra $4 might be worth it to have it in 2 to 3 days instead of having to wait weeks for shipping from China.
  
 Personally, it didn't cost me anything thanks to Bing Rewards


----------



## CoiL

Ok, makes sense.


----------



## TwinACStacks

What can someone tell me about the KZ DT3, ANV, and CM9???
  








 TWIN


----------



## FHSWarrior

How are the GR?
I bought them for $6 on aliexpress with the final $6 I had on a gift card lol


----------



## TwinACStacks

So *MANY* KZ Earphones, so little time.....
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> What can someone tell me about the KZ DT3, ANV, and CM9???


 
 Personally I think if You already have ED9 & ATE ...don`t bother with others.
  
 About ANV:
 Very balanced/neutral (cold?) sounding, great micro-details in highs region. Might lack littlebit mids and warmth in vocals. Quite hard and fast hitting kicks. Some bass heavy music may lack bass "sustain" and "deepness" but it might come from slight lack of midbass.
 Requires very good fit and seal. Has short nozzle, so probably double/triple flange longer tips should be used.
 Heavy. Ok cable. Imo useable more in "studio monitoring" analytical way, for music enjoyment not so good.
 But if I would get something with different signature from KZ lineup besides ED9 and ATE, I would get ANV.
  


fhswarrior said:


> How are the GR?
> I bought them for $6 on aliexpress with the final $6 I had on a gift card lol


 


coil said:


> ED9 is better in... every way! Belive me!  GR is intimate, small soundstage and ED9 has noticeably better separation/imaging/soundstage/clarity.


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> You guys said ED9 is the best for pop and EDM, right?
> 
> Is this the best place to buy them?  12.29 without microphone and 13.18 with microphone?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo-Earplug/32358133991.html



Tenores still sound more refined than ED9. Well, for the price of course ED9 is an unbeatable monster.


----------



## slowpickr

Some good news to report about the durability of KZ headphones. My set of ED8s were accidentally washed in the laundry. Let them dry out and they still work fine!


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> Some good news to report about the durability of KZ headphones. My set of ED8s were accidentally washed in the laundry. Let them dry out and they still work fine!



+1
Since my daily commute involves travelling in crowded train sometimes earphone cable gets caught into something and pulled hard. Still my KZs going strong.


----------



## FHSWarrior

i think that response might have been to someone who was talking about the gr02
  
 i meant the KZ GR


----------



## FHSWarrior

>


 
 edit: how does one delete a post on here?


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Personally I think if You already have ED9 & ATE ...don`t bother with others.
> 
> About ANV:
> Very balanced/neutral (cold?) sounding, great micro-details in highs region. Might lack littlebit mids and warmth in vocals. Quite hard and fast hitting kicks. Some bass heavy music may lack bass "sustain" and "deepness" but it might come from slight lack of midbass.
> ...




Are ED9s warmer then ANV then? I thought both were quite "flat".


----------



## mebaali

I do not own ANV. To my ears ED9 are anything but flat sounding even with Brass filters.


----------



## CoiL

fhswarrior said:


> i think that response might have been to someone who was talking about the gr02
> 
> i meant the KZ GR


 
 And I was responding to You about KZ GR not gr02. I was just quoting myself from previous answer about KZ GR.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






fhswarrior said:


> How are the GR?
> I bought them for $6 on aliexpress with the final $6 I had on a gift card lol


 


coil said:


> ED9 is better in... every way! Belive me!  GR is intimate, small soundstage and ED9 has noticeably better separation/imaging/soundstage/clarity.


 
  


  
  


ruben123 said:


> Are ED9s warmer then ANV then? I thought both were quite "flat".


 
 Quote:


mebaali said:


> I do not own ANV. To my ears ED9 are anything but flat sounding even with Brass filters.


 
 Agree. Even with brass filters, ED9 is is nowhere near "flat" sound. ED9 is just very pleasantly balanced for natural listening. They are definitely warmer than ANV. ANV is like "dead-flat"... lacking littlebit subbass and warm mids. Highs are very good and detailed though. I can`t listen my ANV for longer sessions.... it sounds too boring and causes fatigue. I have no "falling into music" feeling and enjoyment is gone after some listening. Not that it`s bad IEM, just not my taste.
 I would still rate ANV third after ED9 and ATE.


----------



## anticute

Okay, so I'm still waiting to get my issue with the broken ed9 resolved with the seller. I'm strongly leaning towards getting a new pair one way or the other, and to switch out the cable on the one with the glitchy connector.
  
 That being said, I would really appreciate some advice from you guys. It seems like buying a replacement cable with mic is more expensive than buying a new KZ headphone with mic and just taking that. So which KZ headphone has the best cable with mic for the price? Found a EDR1 with mic for $6.18, GR with mic for $6.40.. Does the EDR1 have the same cable as EDSE?
  
 If anyone has other ideas, other brands/models that has a nice cable and mic (and are cheap, obviously), I'm totally open to that too.


----------



## CoiL

> If anyone has other ideas, other brands/models that has a nice cable and mic (and are cheap, obviously), I'm totally open to that too.


 
 I`m also still searching. I got those (all colours) but they were nowhere nice and good cables like in pics: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Metal-Earphones-Jack-Standard-Noise-Isolating-1-1M-Reflective-Fiber-Cloth-Line-3-5mm-Stereo-In/32338117590.html ...they look like christmas decorations, LOL.
  
 I think for me it is easier to go some local wallmart and search for some cheap IEM with good looking/feel cable but I`m still looking around at internet too. 
  
 From KZ lineup I would use GR or r35 cable but they are without mic (at least I have without mic version) so no good for You. I`m leaning towards getting GR again because of cable and nozzles (newer version GR nozzles without hole in red should fit to ED9 without problems).
 I sold my previous GR to friend.
  
 But maybe for You VJJB K1 is an option?: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/VJJB-K1-Stereo-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-Earphones-to-Ear-Professional-Studio-Bass-Headsets-Ear-Phones/32351553407.html
 You would get nice cable with mic + slider + pouch.
  
 Another candidate for me is this IE800 replacement cable: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Semi-Finished-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-IE800-repair-upgrade-LBH1026/2044467318.html
  
 And this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3m-Semi-Finished-Bulk-Soft-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-Repair/32333765372.html
  
 And this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3m-Semi-Finished-OFC-90-Degree-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-wire-cable-LN004479/32230268097.html


----------



## FHSWarrior

Oops, sorry. Was being a potato and didn't even to read your username on your quoted post


----------



## Suneth

These came today


  



  
 I wonder the purpose of the tiny gold thing on the cable.


----------



## Ruben123

I like their design. Happy listening!


----------



## Shawn71

suneth said:


> I wonder the purpose of the tiny gold thing on the cable.


 
 it doesn't have the pre mould / mem wire so that gold beeds slightly prevent from jumping the cable off from behind the ears when worn it's native style.....


----------



## knightskid

Hete is mine, received from the official store but mine came with mic and my order is without mic.


----------



## B9Scrambler

That's a bummer. I ordered all four of mine with a mic. Guess how many have one? Hint: Rhymes with hero...


----------



## Suneth

b9scrambler said:


> That's a bummer. I ordered all four of mine with a mic. Guess how many have one? Hint: Rhymes with hero...


 

 ouch   They asked me  to confirm which model i want via PM's  after i placed the order


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> I just find the treble a tad undefined and splashy. Not bad by any means, just not my preference. In comparison the notes sound thicker on the ATE, but are also better defined.


 






 Scrambler, I just had a re-listen and I simply hear only PERFECT treble. Maybe I got a perfectly manufactured pair? But it's really MORE LIKELY is that at 61 Years, YOUR hearing (especially High Frequencies), is better than mine. I will deny I ever admitted this.
  
 This is why I don't actually do reviews, just my listening impressions as my hearing is not as good as it used to be when I was a young Pup. Sux getting old.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

suneth said:


> These came today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 It's a weight to keep the wire behind your ear while wearing it.
  
 The Chinese are quite detail oriented.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Majin

coil said:


> I bought 2 for 6.19$ piece from aliexpress... why should someone buy it for 17$?


 
  
 Was it from Tombuy? he still didn't process my order after 5 days.


----------



## sbose

majin said:


> Was it from Tombuy? he still didn't process my order after 5 days.


 

 mine too.i hope they ship it quickly.


----------



## CoiL

majin said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I bought 2 for 6.19$ piece from aliexpress... why should someone buy it for 17$?
> ...


 
 Don`t know. Did not look the seller. Btw, some sellers just don`t or forget to update status. I had once like that, shipment said processing but I already got the item.


----------



## AlecR

What new KZ IEMs have come out lately?


----------



## Suneth

alecr said:


> What new KZ IEMs have come out lately?


 

 ED9  and ATE


----------



## aspire5550

Guys, what ear tips are recommended for the ED9? For some reason, they don't give a good fit on my ears and often falls off easily.. :./

 Found it to be more comfortable when I use xiaomi piston's tips but I lost the medium tips, the large sized tips are too big and the small sized tips are too small for me.


----------



## CoiL

Sony Hybrid and Spinfit maybe?


----------



## EISENbricher

aspire5550 said:


> Guys, what ear tips are recommended for the ED9? For some reason, they don't give a good fit on my ears and often falls off easily.. :./
> 
> 
> Found it to be more comfortable when I use xiaomi piston's tips but I lost the medium tips, the large sized tips are too big and the small sized tips are too small for me.



Sony Hybrids work good with brass nozzles for me, and white wide bore tips came with TTPOD T1E with Gold filter.


----------



## jj69

Just received my KZ GR, which I ordered from the KZ Official Store on AliExpress, specifically to use the red nozzles with ED9.  Well, they showed up with the holes in the red nozzles, which I believe means they're the "old" version, and completely useless with the ED9. 
  
 So if the KZ "official store" doesn't stock the new version of the GR, then who does?  Very frustrating.


----------



## TwinACStacks

In addition to ordering the KZ ANV and CM9 I am going to try these little gems right here:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6711309726.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## Arvan

twinacstacks said:


> In addition to ordering the KZ ANV and CM9 I am going to try these little gems right here:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6711309726.html
> 
> ...


 
 i have the original JVC FX3X and they are not very good. The EDSE or CM9 is way better.


----------



## CoiL

Let me ask this way - what are You searching for Twin? Just IEM madness? ED9 or ATE aren`t good enough?


----------



## cheeto

Just got my ATE black w/ mic and it came with a nice surprise. One extra set of foam tips and the around the ear deal (I forgot the property name for that), worth the wait I guess. I've had my ED9 for about a week and a half and I ordered the two at the same time.



Love my ED9 (using the bronze nozzle), I'm hoping that the ATE delivers as well.


----------



## goa604

Just ordered black KZ ATE today with no mic. Will put some pictures as soon as i get them.


----------



## goa604

jj69 said:


> Just received my KZ GR, which I ordered from the KZ Official Store on AliExpress, specifically to use the red nozzles with ED9.  Well, they showed up with the holes in the red nozzles, which I believe means they're the "old" version, and completely useless with the ED9.
> 
> So if the KZ "official store" doesn't stock the new version of the GR, then who does?  Very frustrating.


 
 Use the black nozzles then. Isnt the only difference the hole?


----------



## B9Scrambler

arvan said:


> i have the original JVC FX3X and they are not very good. The EDSE or CM9 is way better.




I'll have to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that one, lol. My opinion of course.


----------



## jj69

goa604 said:


> Use the black nozzles then. Isnt the only difference the hole?


 
  
 No, the thread diameter and size are completely different on the old version.  Both nozzles cannot be used with ED9.  Besides, the black nozzles are supposed to be for "bassheads."


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Let me ask this way - what are You searching for Twin? Just IEM madness? ED9 or ATE aren`t good enough?


 






 Nope Coil, just playing around with getting a few very inexpensive earphones and seeing what I like best. I'm *really *waiting for the Trinity Deltas and Flare Audio R2A that I backed on Kickstarter to arrive. I have High Hopes for these. Truthfully, I could live with just the Dunu Titan and the ED9, they are BOTH that good. I haven't had a serious listen to the ATE yet as I am absolutely an advocate of burn in. I will have my first real sit down with them @ 100 Hours or so. As we speak I have 40 Hrs. on them. I have a backup pair in Clear coming in case I don't like the Mods I made to them.
  








 TWIN


----------



## nilupulss

kz ed9 vs piston 3 or 2 ?


----------



## CoiL

ED9 definitely better SQ in every way than Piston 2. Piston 3 should be soundwise good but I personally find ergonomics and design bad (can`t wear over-ear). I would go for ED9.


----------



## sodesuka

Piston 3 has less bass, better separation and imaging, more prominent upper mid, and bit less harsh treble than ED9.


----------



## Shawn71

I want to re-confirm from the existing owners,---So, ED9 and GR can have their removable nozzles fit each other's?.....and that GR's vented nozzles are the originals to those GRs that doesn't have?....
  
 <TY>


----------



## CoiL

sodesuka said:


> Piston 3 has less bass, better separation and imaging, more prominent upper mid, and bit less harsh treble than ED9.


 
 Compared to which nozzles used with ED9 ?
 ED9 doesn`t have harsh highs when proper filter/filter combination/mod is being used. That`s the good thing about ED9 - You can set the sound to Your liking.
  
  


shawn71 said:


> So, ED9 and GR can have their removable nozzles fit each other's?


 
 GR "old" nozzles (which have hole in red filter) do not fit ED9 because of longer and slightly different screw-step.


> GR's vented nozzles are the originals to those GRs that doesn't have?....


 
 Sorry, rephrase question, didn`t understand You.


----------



## sodesuka

coil said:


> Compared to which nozzles used with ED9 ?
> ED9 doesn`t have harsh highs when proper filter/filter combination/mod is being used. That`s the good thing about ED9 - You can set the sound to Your liking.


 
 Gold, my brass filter seems to be different from what others have so I won't talk about it. Well, people have different tolerance to each frequency, I personally think that ED9's high is still a bit harsh. Talking unmodded of course.


----------



## Shawn71

> Originally Posted by *CoiL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> GR "old" nozzles (which have hole in red filter) do not fit ED9 because of longer and slightly different screw-step.
> 
> Sorry, rephrase question, didn`t understand You.


 
 Ok, so the newer batch GR nozzles fit the ED9 then?.....is it only the red ones that have the different thread or even the black ones too have them, from older batch?
  
 Well, (iirc) I think I had seen some sayin, that the vented (hole) nozzles seemed originals,not sure tho, as it's almost a year people started buying GRs here......


----------



## mebaali

Agree with @sodesuka. Me too have the same issue of hot highs with ED9 when used in its stock version (unmodded brass filter is more so than shiny one). In my case, harsh highs are tamed to a certain extent when I use a bit of porous sponge in the brass filter.


----------



## aspire5550

Hey guys, I have a question. Is the KZs worth it to use with a DAC/amp? I'm not that familiar with audio stuff but from my limited knowledge, I know that only good/high quality earphones/IEM can be fully utilized by having a DAC/amp combo. 

 So before I went ahead to buy something like that, may I know whether is it worth it to buy a DAC or an amp for ED9?


----------



## RedTwilight

aspire5550 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question. Is the KZs worth it to use with a DAC/amp? I'm not that familiar with audio stuff but from my limited knowledge, I know that only good/high quality earphones/IEM can be fully utilized by having a DAC/amp combo.
> 
> 
> So before I went ahead to buy something like that, may I know whether is it worth it to buy a DAC or an amp for ED9?




The power requirements for the KZ iems won't require an amp to achieve their potential. You could get one to try. While it might probably improve the dynamics slightly, it's likely that it'll just make the sound louder for the most part.

So, it's not necessary per se but whether it's worth the money and weight is up to you.


----------



## aspire5550

redtwilight said:


> The power requirements for the KZ iems won't require an amp to achieve their potential. You could get one to try. While it might probably improve the dynamics slightly, it's likely that it'll just make the sound louder for the most part.
> 
> So, it's not necessary per se but whether it's worth the money and weight is up to you.


 
 What about a DAC? will a better source improve the sound quality? I wasn't really planning on getting an amp but I was just planning to just get a dac.

 Same question, is it worth it to invest money on a source or is it better to use the money to get a better iem since the dac might be more expensive than a KZ and a cheap KZ powered by a DAC might not be worth it. 

 The DAC i had in mind is the UD120 which i will be getting for around 30 usd.


----------



## CoiL

> will a better source improve the sound quality?


 
 Yes. And source doesn`t inlcude only DAC - it starts with file format, next is firmware/driver (ASIO, WASAPI, KSP) settings and ends with DAC before HP/IEM.
 UD120 should be ok. You can also take a look at HIFImeDIY DAC`s: http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs 
 Some PCM-2704 based DAC`s are also good enough, for example I have really cheap ELE EL-D02, changed to better capacitors (cheap) and sound is pretty great, especially for the money.


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> Yes. And source doesn`t inlcude only DAC - it starts with file format, next is firmware/driver (ASIO, WASAPI, KSP) settings and ends with DAC before HP/IEM.
> UD120 should be ok. You can also take a look at HIFImeDIY DAC`s: http://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs
> Some PCM-2704 based DAC`s are also good enough, for example I have really cheap ELE EL-D02, changed to better capacitors (cheap) and sound is pretty great, especially for the money.




+1 The entire chain is important, but the one that has the biggest effect imo is the earphone. A decent earphone should produce decent music from a variety of sources. Generalising abit admittedly. 

For that price you could give it a try however. Don't expect a miracle, but you'd at least be driving the iem to it's fullest.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I don't know where You guys are hearing "Harshness" in the ED9 with EITHER nozzle. For me the Best thing about the ED9 is it's treble presentation. You guys must think The DUNU Titan is off the Charts unlistenable.
  
 Of course it could be the fact that at 61, I'm less sensitive to Treble than the rest of you. But for me the ED9 Treble is PERFECT. Especially with the Brass nozzles. I've maintained this treble impression from 1st listen to 200 Hours Burn in on them.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Shadowsora

There are 2 variants of ED9, one with edse cable(looks like that from the photos) and one with a new updated cable and different jack.
 Maybe one variant has harsh treble, i find my own ED9 having slightly harsh Treble when using them with pcm2704 but when i use them with my phone this is not the case, so maybe this effect depends on the source.


----------



## sodesuka

twinacstacks said:


> I don't know where You guys are hearing "Harshness" in the ED9 with EITHER nozzle. For me the Best thing about the ED9 is it's treble presentation. You guys must think The DUNU Titan is off the Charts unlistenable.


 
 Yes, I'd probably find Titan 1 to be like that, I've yet to come across Titanium drivers phones that I don't think that (inc. RE400). It's just how our ears and brain work.


----------



## anticute

I must have missed the fact that there are two different versions of ED9. Mine came with the "striped" EDSE looking cable, although a lot more rubbery. Which is the other version, and does someone have pictures? When I'm looking around at aliexpress, most sellers seem to use the same stock pictures.


----------



## CoiL

ED9 without mic = brown cable. ED9 with mic = EDSE/striped looking cable. 
 I doubt that those cables make difference in highs.


----------



## goa604

Could anyone please say a few words about ATE vs EDSE? Just ordered ATE, honestly i couldnt contain myself when i saw the looks of them,
 Hope they are comparable. Im currently using EDSE and i love them to bits.


----------



## CoiL

For me ATE is better than EDSE, especially in highs - not so "splashy" and no sibilance in vocals.
 ATE bass (sub-bass) is better and mids have more warmth and body. 
 ATE is different beast from EDSE. ATE is smoother, warmer and natural... EDSE brighter and "colder".


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> For me ATE is better than EDSE, especially in highs - not so "splashy" and no sibilance in vocals.
> ATE bass (sub-bass) is better and mids have more warmth and body.
> ATE is different beast from EDSE. ATE is smoother, warmer and natural... EDSE brighter and "colder".


 

 EDSE is colder? No to me. Even no warmer, but definitely no colder than ATE. Sound signature of EDSE is far from cold.


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> For me ATE is better than EDSE, especially in highs - not so "splashy" and no sibilance in vocals.
> ATE bass (sub-bass) is better and mids have more warmth and body.
> ATE is different beast from EDSE. ATE is smoother, warmer and natural... EDSE brighter and "colder".


 

 Soundstage of ATE is much better than EDSE.


----------



## TwinACStacks

The only thing I may have a problem with on the ATE is the fact that it is Over-Ear which I really do not care for. It's one of the Reasons I got rid of The Havi B3s and the Senn IE8s. I see myself gravitating most likely to the ED9, and I all ready know the Dunu Titans, are the greatest thing since sliced bread
  
  








TWIN


----------



## CoiL

yangian said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > For me ATE is better than EDSE, especially in highs - not so "splashy" and no sibilance in vocals.
> ...


 
 Did I tell EDSE is cold? No, I said it`s "cold*er*" than ATE. I`m not sure if I understood You correctly but If You think EDSE is same "warm" as ATE then You must be hearing things wrong or it`s the result of source chain. ATE and EDSE have quite large difference in highs and if You add littlebit lack of EDSE bass and mids which is "basis" of natural sound signature, then EDSE is definitely cold*er* sounding than ATE.


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Did I tell EDSE is cold? No, I said it`s "cold*er*" than ATE. I`m not sure if I understood You correctly but If You think EDSE is same "warm" as ATE then You must be hearing things wrong or it`s the result of source chain. ATE and EDSE have quite large difference in highs and if You add littlebit lack of EDSE bass and mids which is "basis" of natural sound signature, then EDSE is definitely cold*er* sounding than ATE.


 

 Ok. Thanks for clarification.


----------



## codearm2

Is it only me or the left nozzle has no filter and build quality is sucks






bought from KZ official aliexpress store


----------



## CoiL

ATE has no filters in nozzle, only grills. Seems that one has just come off. Sorry to see. Just remove the other one too and it will be ok, imo.


----------



## codearm2

coil said:


> ATE has no filters in nozzle, only grills. Seems that one has just come off. Sorry to see. Just remove the other one too and it will be ok, imo.




dunno what that's called
will it affect the sound and is the cabl detachable?

btw the sq of ate is better than ed9 IMHO


----------



## Suneth

codearm2 said:


> Is it only me or the left nozzle has no filter and build quality is sucks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It looks like a mesh on mine


----------



## EISENbricher

Finally received my ATE today, and I already love the sound. ED9 with brass nozzles (as I use those most) have more details in sound, while ATE has more refinement in sound. Vocals are beautiful on ATE. Tested with 'Romio and Juliet' by Dire Straits and 'Sinnerman' by Nina Simone, both in FLAC played through my DAP Xduoo X2.
  
 These are just initial impressions, but I already support the comment made earlier by people in this thread that ED9 and ATE are complimentary to each other in a good way. Both are worth buying, the money very well spent.


----------



## Shawn71

codearm2 said:


> dunno what that's called
> will it affect the sound and is the cabl detachable?


 
 That's (grill/mesh) to protect any wax/dust from entering into the earpieces......the cable is a fixed one.
  
 edit:> possible it might've came off and still inside the box itself,chk one more time....just in case.


----------



## Grayson73

eisenbricher said:


> Tenores still sound more refined than ED9. Well, for the price of course ED9 is an unbeatable monster.


 
 Which one has more sub bass?


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> Which one has more sub bass?


 
 Tenores do have more (and distinctly layered) sub bass. Actually I received KZ ATE today and it has more refined sound IMO. It's definitely closer to the Tenore compared to ED9.


----------



## Grayson73

eisenbricher said:


> Revisiting back to the ED8m (Red) after listening much to ED9. I'd say bass quality on ED8m is better than ED9 using any of the filters. ED8m bass has better timbre, sounds more organic and especially the mid bass is a pleasure to listen to. Though, my Red ED8m required much burn in period to reach this level. Earlier the bass was overpowering and a little muddy. ED8m are beasts for genres like Pop and EDM.


 
 So for Pop and EDM, would you say ED8m are the best?  Even better than ED9 and ATE?
  
 My friend got Soundsoul S018 and he feels that it's not enough bass for EDM.  He liked Piston 2 level of bass.


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> So for Pop and EDM, would you say ED8m are the best?  Even better than ED9 and ATE?
> 
> My friend got Soundsoul S018 and he feels that it's not enough bass for EDM.  He liked Piston 2 level of bass.


 
 This is VERY subjective. As I've already said before ED8m is a love or hate matter. People used to balanced phones will definitely find too much bass on ED8m, while people coming from Piston 2 will feel at home and definitely find ED8m as an upgrade.
  
 I have S-018 and it definitely is not up for EDM. I'd suggest ED8m.


----------



## Arsis

Subscribed
ED9 on the way!


----------



## jj69

Quick question for those of you who have the "new version" of the GR (with the holes in the red nozzles): Which seller did you buy from. 

 The pair I just received from the "KZ Headset Official Flagship Store" are the old version.


----------



## CoiL

Got my Sony Hybrids for ED9 today, 4 sets, 2 from one seller, 2 from another, from eBay, all are identical to eachother. They are soft, good and seal very well but I think they make ED9 bass littlebit "boomy" for my taste.
*IMHO, when ED9 is being used with brass filters + foam mod, then the breathing holes in the nozzle must be clear as possible and tips outer layer rubber edges shouldn`t reach over them or it will make bass littlebit "boomy". Also tips with large as possible opening should be used.* 
 Hope these tricks help to improve sound for somebody 
  
 Anyway, going back to my "self-made" solution because they are ULTRA-SOFT silicone and very comfy, go deep into earchannel and seal great:

 I like the looks also better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  


jj69 said:


> Quick question for those of you who have the "new version" of the GR (with the holes in the red nozzles): Which seller did you buy from.
> 
> The pair I just received from the "KZ Headset Official Flagship Store" are the old version.


 
 As much as I know, old version had holes, then they started making newer version which didn`t have holes and now seems that they are again making hole version. I guess it is quite hit & miss with sellers.
  
 Btw, I noticed that my ED9 brass filters have started to corrode 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit:
 To those who bought ED9 from tombuy @ aliexpress - my order just got shipped out status. Hope they will arrive safely and fast.


----------



## EISENbricher

Of course there should be mesh on both...


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Got my Sony Hybrids for ED9 today, 4 sets, 2 from one seller, 2 from another, from eBay, all are identical to eachother. They are soft, good and seal very well but I think they make ED9 bass littlebit "boomy" for my taste.
> *IMHO, when ED9 is being used with brass filters + foam mod, then the breathing holes in the nozzle must be clear as possible and tips outer layer rubber edges shouldn`t reach over them or it will make bass littlebit "boomy". Also tips with large as possible opening should be used.*
> Hope these tricks help to improve sound for somebody
> 
> ...




When did you place your order? I put mine in June 1st and I'm still waiting for it to be shipped :/


----------



## CoiL

I think it was on 27th May I placed order but it seems that payment went through on 31st May (payment confirmation e-mail).
 Also seller sent me a message that they haven`t got payment (message came @ 30th May):


> Dear friend,
> Sorry to bother you.
> We have noticed that the order you have with us is still unpaid. Is there anything wrong with your account or you change your mind or this is the duplicate order?
> if you have any problem for processing the payment of the order, please learn more information from aliexpress help center as the link of http://help.aliexpress.com/payment_method.html or contact with us directly
> ...


 
 8th June it got shipped out but I have remark behind order:


> Sorry friend,Because of the post accumulation problems, we changed another shipping way which will be better and safer. It will arrive at other country first,then that country post will transfer it to your country. Really sorry for making this inconvenience for you! The shipping time will be the same or faster than the shipping way you choose and please track on this site(tracking informations usually showed within 3-12 business days):http://intmail.183.com.cn/icc-itemstatusen.jsp ​


 
 I think Aliexpress might have some payment processing issues?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Check if Your payment has gone through to seller.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> I think it was on 27th May I placed order but it seems that payment went through on 31st May (payment confirmation e-mail).
> Also seller sent me a message that they haven`t got payment (message came @ 30th May):
> 8th June it got shipped out but I have remark behind order:
> I think Aliexpress might have some payment processing issues?
> ...


 
 Okay, cool. Ty for the detailed heads-up, lol. My payment went through June 1st, shortly after I completed the order. I'll send them a message and see whats up.
  
 Ps. Those custom tips look nice. I need to figure something out for these ATE, because none of my tips seal all that well; Sony Hybrids (they just slip off the nozzle, UE, JVCs (not long enough), etc, and the foamies expand before I have the chance to stick them in my ears, lol. The UE and Huawei Honors tips seem to work the best with my wacky left ear.


----------



## CoiL

For me, Piston2 smallest silicones worked very well with ATE, they are thin, soft and with "long body". You can see them on my grill modded ATE pics 
 Btw, against slipping off there is easy solution - put small drop of super-glue on the nozzle neck before installing tips, slide them on and let it dry.
 Of course You must be sure that You wish to use those tips only. It tried this trick with my red/yellow tips on ATE, it worked.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> For me, Piston2 smallest silicones worked very well with ATE, they are thin, soft and with "long body". You can see them on my grill modded ATE pics
> Btw, against slipping off there is easy solution - put small drop of super-glue on the nozzle neck before installing tips, slide them on and let it dry.
> Of course You must be sure that You wish to use those tips only. It tried this trick with my red/yellow tips on ATE, it worked.




Thanks for the suggestions. I'll mess around with them a bit more.


----------



## Suneth

b9scrambler said:


> When did you place your order? I put mine in June 1st and I'm still waiting for it to be shipped :/


 
 You should contact seller. 9 days is very unusual even for the most negative feedback seller

  


  


coil said:


> I think it was on 27th May I placed order but it seems that payment went through on 31st May (payment confirmation e-mail).
> Also seller sent me a message that they haven`t got payment (message came @ 30th May):
> 8th June it got shipped out but I have remark behind order:
> I think Aliexpress might have some payment processing issues?
> ...


 
 I bought some  items yesterday and today morning one of them already shipped out.  never had to wait more than 12 hours for payment verification though.


----------



## B9Scrambler

suneth said:


> You should contact seller. 9 days is very unusual even for the most negative feedback seller


 
  
 Yeah, nine days is very unusual. They didn't respond to my message, but shipped ma goods this morning. The prices they dropped the ED9 and Piston 3.0 to were too good to pass up, so it wouldn't shock me if they sold out of their stock and had to wait for new product to arrive.


----------



## Suneth

b9scrambler said:


> Yeah, nine days is very unusual. They didn't respond to my message, but shipped ma goods this morning. The prices they dropped the ED9 and Piston 3.0 to were too good to pass up, so it wouldn't shock me if they sold out of their stock and had to wait for new product to arrive.


 

 bummer  i had no idea about the sale   better luck next time


----------



## Starfield

b9scrambler said:


> Yeah, nine days is very unusual. They didn't respond to my message, but shipped ma goods this morning. The prices they dropped the ED9 and Piston 3.0 to were too good to pass up, so it wouldn't shock me if they sold out of their stock and had to wait for new product to arrive.


 
 Had the same problem with that seller. I also contacted him and, although he didn't respond to my message, he uptaded all my stuff a couple minutes after that.
 My guess is that he may have shipped it all, but did not update the infos.


----------



## CoiL

> My guess is that he may have shipped it all, but did not update the infos.


 
 Probably yes. Like I told before, there are some sellers who just don`t update their selling status but have already shipped or even already received by buyer.


----------



## fnkcow

In some cases some don't respond to messages not because they dont want to, but because they are limited in their English language. I've experienced similar situations as well, but I find that in general if they have a lot of good feedback I won't be too concerned.


----------



## B9Scrambler

fnkcow said:


> In some cases some don't respond to messages not because they dont want to, but because they are limited in their English language. I've experienced similar situations as well, but I find that in general if they have a lot of good feedback I won't be too concerned.




This ^ . I did receive a response from them this morning. Seems they tried to ship it earlier, but due to the delay cancelled and swapped companies (or at least this is what I gathered from their response).


----------



## TwinACStacks

Coil My Man, NOW I see what You mean now about only really needing the ED9 and ATE. Got my first real Good listen to the ATE's last night for about 6 hours. VERY Nice. Wide-ass soundstage insanely good Midrange, (especially noticeable on Female Trance Vocals), Good Clarity. I still think They are Bass Heavy but in a good way. They may be a bit much for "Audiophiles" (Corksniff, corksniff), but they were BUILT for Trance and EDM. Honestly the First earphones where I didn't have to use the bass Boost on my E12 Fiio. Personally I like the Treble on the ED9 Better but these 2 phones compliment each other nicely, with their different sound signatures.
  
 I got the EDSE Yesterday and All I can say is they are promising, on a quick listen. Choice of Eartip makes a HUGE difference on these. I started off with the Clear /Red Core that comes on them which actually was pretty good. I Then moved to the Black Rubber ones----they truly sucked. Next I tried My Trusty Auvios, (they have a very wide Bore on them), which also were quite good but not quite as defined as the Red Cores, Then I spied in my Dunu Tip Bag a Pair of Aqua (Medium) Sony Hybrids. WAY BETTER. So for my first short listen and tip roll I have these preferences for the ED9:
  
 #1. Sony Hybrids
 #2 OEM Red Core
 #3 Auvio (Med)
  
 Now to start burning the EDSE's in.
  
 I've Got 260 Hrs on the ED9's and about 70 Hrs on the ATE's I think I will finish the Burn in on these two the old-Fashioned way.
  
 By listening to music with them....
  








 TWIN


----------



## playmate

So I finally got my KZ ATE black translucent in the mail. First of all it's very annoying that these sellers just randomly ship either mic / non-mic version regardless what the order specifies.  I ordered the non-mic version, because the cable seemed better. The mic version cable is flimsy and annoying. At least microphonics aren't that bad. The fit of the earphones are OK. I think it might be better with other tips. 
 Anyways, for initial impression of SQ it is good. And very good for a 10$ earphone. 
  
 My ED9 have been shipped and I look forward to them. Hopefully they will get the cable right on them..


----------



## CoiL

For me stock cable doesn`t matter... will anyway change my ATE and ED9 cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I have to say it again - stock ED9 cable (brown without mic) totally sucks! So so rubbery, memory, sticky, quite microphonic and bad to stock in pocket for example. Worst KZ cable imho.


----------



## RedTwilight

b9scrambler said:


> When did you place your order? I put mine in June 1st and I'm still waiting for it to be shipped :/




I placed my order on the 22nd of May.. And it shipped out with you guys.


----------



## B9Scrambler

redtwilight said:


> I placed my order on the 22nd of May.. And it shipped out with you guys.




They must have run out of stock, or were just waiting to mail in bulk...its gotta be something like that.


----------



## Grayson73

twinacstacks said:


> Coil My Man, NOW I see what You mean now about only really needing the ED9 and ATE. Got my first real Good listen to the ATE's last night for about 6 hours. VERY Nice. Wide-ass soundstage insanely good Midrange, (especially noticeable on Female Trance Vocals), Good Clarity. I still think They are Bass Heavy but in a good way. They may be a bit much for "Audiophiles" (Corksniff, corksniff), but they were BUILT for Trance and EDM. Honestly the First earphones where I didn't have to use the bass Boost on my E12 Fiio. Personally I like the Treble on the ED9 Better but these 2 phones compliment each other nicely, with their different sound signatures.
> 
> I got the EDSE Yesterday and All I can say is they are promising, on a quick listen. Choice of Eartip makes a HUGE difference on these. I started off with the Clear /Red Core that comes on them which actually was pretty good. I Then moved to the Black Rubber ones----they truly sucked. Next I tried My Trusty Auvios, (they have a very wide Bore on them), which also were quite good but not quite as defined as the Red Cores, Then I spied in my Dunu Tip Bag a Pair of Aqua (Medium) Sony Hybrids. WAY BETTER. So for my first short listen and tip roll I have these preferences for the ED9:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wait, ATE has more bass than ED9?  I should tell my friend who likes Piston 2 to get ATE instead of ED9 and ED8M then.


----------



## CoiL

ATE does not have more bass in stock imo
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think he is confusing warmer/smoother presentation with more bass, using bassy tips or something...


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> ATE does not have more bass in stock imo:rolleyes:  I think he is confusing warmer/smoother presentation with more bass, using bassy tips or something...




I'll agree with you. I find the ED9 significantly more bassy, and also quite a bit brighter. Now that I finally found some tips (Piston triple flange) that work well with the ATE and my ears, I can make this judgment.


----------



## Grayson73

So which do you think is better for Pop and EDM, ED9 or ATE?


----------



## EISENbricher

I find ATE having more bass quantity than brass nozzle equipped ED9 with an added advantage of airiness and better quality of bass, a tad bit of refinement.
  
  
 Oh well I never seen a 'colder' earphone having more bass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

[quote name="EISENbricher" url="/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/4455#post_11675056"

Oh well I never seen a 'colder' earphone having more bass.
[/quote]

If you haven't before, check out the NarMoo S1. Not a warm sounding earphone, but big bass. They're a fun listen


----------



## TwinACStacks

Nope Guys. I'm not confused with Presentation. With the BRASS TIPS the ED9 simply does not have as deep or present Bass as the ATE, To my ears. However with the GOLD tips the ED9 Has a DISTURBING amount of Bass, WAY over the Top. The ED9 has a Brighter Presentation overall. The Mids excel in the ATE were as the Treble excels in the ED9, from my point of view.
  
 ED9= AKG   ATE= Sennheiser. Best as I can sum it up
  
 JMO, and I just compared them, I stand by my opinion. BUT REMEMBER, I have 61 Year old Ears.
  
 Now on to the ED8's....
  
 I find them with the right tips similar to the ATEs. Unfortunately they are impossibly heavy and long, How do you keep them in your ears? WHO designed these things?
  
 Well, on the Bright side, I think this just cured my G.A.S. for the Dunu DN200J. (which I have a suspicion is throwing around some serious weight as well).
  
 Other than Our different opinions on Bass content, it looks like Coil's predictions, (Take a bow Coil, you know these 'phones), concerning different model KZs is coming true. I like the ED8s, but I don't see myself wearing any uncomfortable earphones. They may go in the Drawer.....
  
 Anyone ever Modded these things? Like maybe shaved off a pound or two? Can't say they aren't well Built!!!
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

It`s called V-shaped sound signature. ATE might feel bassier but it`s not, just warmer overall signature ans smoothed highs. I made my claim about ED9 with foam modded brass nozzles vs. Stock ATE.
  


twinacstacks said:


> Anyone ever Modded these things? Like maybe shaved off a pound or two? Can't say they aren't well Built!!!


 
 You mean ED9 ? I WILL soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Basically I`m cutting the body to "half" and replacing it with custom(ear) shaped wood + new cable.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> It`s called V-shaped sound signature. ATE might feel bassier but it`s not. I made my claim about ED9 with foam modded brass nozzles vs. Stock ATE.


 
 So You think the ED9s are more Linear? I'm wondering If that Mod I did with the 5 1/16 Holes had something to do with it. I swear I mentioned before, that I thought it made them Bassier. Is that possible? What did the foam do to the Brass nozzles? What about the hole at the Bass of the Nozzle?
  
 I REALLY Like Both.
  
 The specs DO bear you out BTW, I'm just wondering why I'm hearing it opposite?
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> It`s called V-shaped sound signature. ATE might feel bassier but it`s not, just warmer overall signature ans smoothed highs. I made my claim about ED9 with foam modded brass nozzles vs. Stock ATE.
> 
> You mean ED9 ? I WILL soon
> 
> ...


 





 No The ED8s They are weird Looking metal things:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED8-Extremely-Strong-Bass-In-Ear-Cool-Stereo-HiFi-Music-Earphone-Headphones-With-Microphone/32334514759.html 5-28000 kHz
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

I don`t know what You mean by Linear but...
  
 ED9 with brass nozzles + foam mod (proper type and amount should be used for tuning it right) + large opening silicone tips (which don`t cover the breathing holes) makes ED9 pleasantly well balanced but not flat sounding. Also I wouldn`t call them V-shaped. Its like "flat" with littlebit enhanced highs and bass.
  
 ATE with grill mod (large 7-8mm hole above driver) sound clearer and more detailed without "hollowness" like stock configuration has.
 Maybe Your hole(s) mod has not enough free clearance behind driver, idk.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> I don`t know what You mean by Linear but...
> 
> ED9 with brass nozzles + foam mod (proper type and amount should be used for tuning it right) + large opening silicone tips (which don`t cover the breathing holes) makes ED9 pleasantly well balanced but not flat sounding. Also I wouldn`t call them V-shaped. Its like "flat" with littlebit enhanced highs and bass.
> 
> ...


 





 There you go Flat=Linear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got me, I have a new set of Clear ATE coming so I can directly compare them, modded to un-modded. The ED9's are very hard to describe, I still feature them being like a 3 Way Speaker. Very 3d-ish. I haven't got a real good handle on the ATE's yet as last night was my first REAL extended listen to them.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Just take off Your ATE back covers to compare, they are same sounding to me as grill modded when open back.
 Then You`ll know if Your 5-hole mod sounds different and makes them more bassy.


----------



## goa604

I really love my R3 and EDSE, i like the way they are both good in a different way. Will i feel the same with ATE or will they replace one of the two? What do you guys think?


----------



## B9Scrambler

goa604 said:


> I really love my R3 and EDSE, i like the way they are both good in a different way. Will i feel the same with ATE or will they replace one of the two? What do you guys think?




I have both of those and the ATE is like neither. It will compliment them nicely.


----------



## sas69

Hello guys, 3 days ago I bought a pair of KZ ED9 IEMs after reading the first 100 pages of this thread.
 I'll probably have to wait for a month for them to arrive from China.
 Originally I was looking to buy Shure se215 IEMs but after all of the reviews that I have read I decided to test this ED9s.
  
 Yesterday I found a brand new Sony MH1c IEMs on the bottom of a drawer on my desk.
 They came with my Xperia Z1 but I never tried them.
 Today I decided to give them a try and I was amazed by the SQ.
 Is there someone who own both of this headphones and can compare the SQ of the KZ ED9s with the one from the Sony MH1c ?
  
 I'm just getting impatient while reading the rest of the thread ...


----------



## goa604

sas69 said:


> Hello guys, 3 days ago I bought a pair of KZ ED9 IEMs after reading the first 100 pages of this thread.
> I'll probably have to wait for a month for them to arrive from China.
> Originally I was looking to buy Shure se215 IEMs but after all of the reviews that I have read I decided to test this ED9s.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh man MH1s are known to be nice IEMs. 
 I cant help you with my personal opinion but there is this nice thread here http://www.head-fi.org/t/632892/review-sony-mh1-the-best-kept-secret
 There are more on this forum im sure.
  


b9scrambler said:


> I have both of those and the ATE is like neither. It will compliment them nicely.


 
 Thank you


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Just take off Your ATE back covers to compare, they are same sounding to me as grill modded when open back.
> Then You`ll know if Your 5-hole mod sounds different and makes them more bassy.


 






 I would have if I hadn't Super Glued them back together. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## goa604

twinacstacks said:


> I would have if I hadn't Super Glued them back together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hah, its a great thing they are so cheap so you can order another ones.  Wish i wasnt on such strict budget  though,
 I have ANV on my wishlist for far too long!


----------



## B9Scrambler

I popped in my ANV tonight after using almost nothing but the ED9 and ATE since receiving them. The following comments will probably not be supported by the majority, lol.
  
 The ANV compare pretty favorably to KZs new heavy hitters...
  
 They have wonderfully tight and punchy bass, with great sub-bass extension, plus forward and clean, unveiled mids. As with the ATE, piano's in particular sound powerful and natural however I like the extra weight the ANVs carries with it's note presentation. The treble with my filter mod is still a touch dry and not as smooth as the ATE's, but it's more detailed and better extended. Pretty similar to the ED9 (with brass filter + foam mod). I also love the soundstage. It seems to sit right between that of the ATE and ED9. One thing it bests both at, for me, is comfort. The cable on the ED9 is too bouncy, and I can only get a consistently good seal on the ATE with the Piston Triple flange tips (which I find quite uncomfortable). The ANV with large Sony hybrids seat instantly and disappear.
  
 Overall the ANV are not quite as clean in the upper regions as either the ED9 or ATE, but it holds its own everywhere else and is still a great listen. I especially love the bass presentation in comparison to the other two.
  
KZ rocks. Micro Ring forever.​  ​ ​


----------



## Koolpep

I bought 2 pairs of the tuna variant of the ED9 - they sounded distinctively different. Which I felt was strange.

One of them sounded indeed incredibly good, unbelievably good. Not only for that money, in general. However after two weeks the cable basically fell out of the housing and that was that.

i now have the ATE incoming. They seem to be build much sturdier from the pics. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## CoiL

Translucent black ATE without mic for 11.7$: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32338241180.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id2=ae_pay_low_mail_template_en_US_2015-06-09


----------



## mebaali

sas69 said:


> Yesterday I found a brand new Sony MH1c IEMs on the bottom of a drawer on my desk.
> They came with my Xperia Z1 but I never tried them.
> Today I decided to give them a try and I was amazed by the SQ.
> Is there someone who own both of this headphones and can compare the SQ of the KZ ED9s with the one from the Sony MH1c ?


 
 I have been using Sony Ericsson MH1 (has got same driver and housing as MH1C, except for having an OMTP compliant 3.5 mm jack instead of CTIA jack of MH1C) for the last month or so, following is how I find Sony MH1 to be when compared against ED9
  
 Soundstage - ED9 with both Shiny and Brass filters >>> MH1
 Bass Quality/Quantity - ED9 with Shiny filters >>> MH1
 Vocals - ED9 with Brass Filters > MH1
 Treble - ED9 with Brass Filters >>> MH1
 Clarity and Instrument separation - ED9 with Brass filters >> MH1
 Build quality and Cable - ED9 > MH1 (hate MH1s J-style flat cable)
 Isolation - MH1 >>> ED9 (Downside to this great islolation is MH1's hybrid tips making me feel my ear being sucked, not a great feeling!)
  
 Overall, I like listening to ED9 more so than my MH1 (YMMV)
  
 Here is a detailed and better (more professional too) review by @ClieOS on MH1/MH1C http://www.head-fi.org/t/632892/review-sony-mh1-the-best-kept-secret


----------



## ilikeiem

koolpep said:


> *I bought 2 pairs of the tuna variant of the ED9 - they sounded distinctively different. Which I felt was strange.*
> 
> One of them sounded indeed incredibly good, unbelievably good. Not only for that money, in general. However after two weeks the cable basically fell out of the housing and that was that.
> 
> ...


 
 I have both MIC and non MIC version of ED9. Too my ears, they has different sound.


----------



## Koolpep

ilikeiem said:


> I have both MIC and non MIC version of ED9. Too my ears, they has different sound.


 

 Yep, seems that they have quite a wide spread in the production. My two identical sets sounded very different. One was really sublime and one was good (but not great). So - I can see why some people don't like them and others are raving...


----------



## ayao

koolpep said:


> Yep, seems that they have quite a wide spread in the production. My two identical sets sounded very different. One was really sublime and one was good (but not great). So - I can see why some people don't like them and others are raving...


 
 I wonder if that's the case with the ATE as well, since mine (mic-less silver from KZ official store) sounds different to what everyone else is saying. I currently have 3 DT-3's that sound identical though.


----------



## goa604

b9scrambler said:


> I popped in my ANV tonight after using almost nothing but the ED9 and ATE since receiving them. The following comments will probably not be supported by the majority, lol.
> 
> The ANV compare pretty favorably to KZs new heavy hitters...
> 
> ...


 
 They are available here btw  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/1246446_2033397274.html
  I know they werent for some time.


----------



## Ruben123

So how to tell a faulty ed9 from a good one? Package, mic, color..?


----------



## Hisoundfi

b9scrambler said:


> I popped in my ANV tonight after using almost nothing but the ED9 and ATE since receiving them. The following comments will probably not be supported by the majority, lol.
> 
> The ANV compare pretty favorably to KZs new heavy hitters...
> 
> ...


Ya know, I wrote off my ANV for a while. I revisited them and I have to say they are a decent listen, and the build quality is incredible. 

I think the thing about them that keeps them from being a favorite is that the upper midrange is maybe just a bit to forward in the mix. It can get a little shouty and splashy with some music. Still it's moving up the list. 

Thanks for the impressions friend, you inspired me to give this one another listen, and I gotta say that for I agree with you. The ANV is definitely one of the better KZs out there. 

Cheers


----------



## TwinACStacks

Guys, I'm pretty sure that Tuna and KZ are the same company. They ship from same address in a lot of cases. I've got about 40 Hours now on My EDSEs and had a listen-- WOW is my first impression. I'm taking these on "Tour" with me tonight for an extended listen. I'm thinking these are easily in top 3 KZs.
  
 I also have my eye on TUNA (don't we all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Anyone with experience with their C5s? Specs look real good.
  

  
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

It is actually KZ RS1 ...nothing new.


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem said:


> koolpep said:
> 
> 
> > *I bought 2 pairs of the tuna variant of the ED9 - they sounded distinctively different. Which I felt was strange.*
> ...


 
 Which one is better to Your ears? Without mic? I`m thinking that mic+extra connections may be the cause here.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> It is actually KZ RS1 ...nothing new.


 






 Worth Getting Coil ?
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

I don`t have them but by comments in this thread... no. Stick with ED9, ATE, ANV. For Your "old" ears (not trying to be mean) EDSE could be also ok in highs section but I still find them littlebit lacking is bass & mids + highs have SSSsss sibilance in vocals and "splashy" bright.


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> I don`t have them but by comments in this thread... no. Stick with ED9, ATE, ANV. For Your "old" ears (not trying to be mean) EDSE could be also ok in highs section but I still find them littlebit lacking is bass & mids + highs have SSSsss sibilance in vocals and "splashy" bright.


 
 That's right. RS-1 is definitely not for old ears.  It's super strong basshead IEM for teenager.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Thanx Guys. The EDSE are the most Tip dependent IEMs I have run across other than Senn. IE8s. I rolled OEM, Auvio, JVC, Sony Hybrids, Meelecs, Spirals and Sennheiser tips before I settled on 1, and that could even change!! I have Large Rubber Narrow-bores, ( I think they are either OEM or JVC),  on them and they sound REALLY Good---so far. I have them ready to go for tonight while driving for about a 6-10 Hour listen. I can say they have changed from a Meh @ first listen to a contender IMO @ 40 hrs. Burn in. Think I will check out a few BAD ENGLISH recordings as they tend to really exhibit sibilance in their Highs.
  








 TWIN


----------



## ilikeiem

coil said:


> Which one is better to Your ears? Without mic? I`m thinking that mic+extra connections may be the cause here.


 
 Normally I always prefer NO MIC version but for ED9, I think MIC version suit me better. Treble is less harsh and less emphasize on sub-bass.


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Normally I always prefer NO MIC version but for ED9, I think MIC version suit me better. Treble is less harsh and less emphasize on sub-bass.


 
 It must be just slight product variation. Why would KZ even bother to tune Mic / non Mic versions in different manner? Doesn't make sense.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> I don`t have them but by comments in this thread... no. Stick with ED9, ATE, ANV. For Your "old" ears (not trying to be mean) EDSE could be also ok in highs section but I still find them littlebit lacking is bass & mids + highs have SSSsss sibilance in vocals and "splashy" bright.


 





 Yes Coil, My "old" ears can do Treble you young pups can't stand. I Simply can't hear it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( I think it's the range that Wive's voices peak at),  But I'm still hell on Bass and Mids....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

ilikeiem said:


> Normally I always prefer NO MIC version but for ED9, I think MIC version suit me better. Treble is less harsh and less emphasize on sub-bass.




Did you a/b them? Im not too sure about this too, because why would they change the sound?


----------



## goa604

twinacstacks said:


> Yes Coil, My "old" ears can do Treble you young pups can't stand. I Simply can't hear it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It would make sense why i love my EDSE with ear plug sponge tips, they settle the highs a little bit and make lows stand out a little bit. 
 Not to mention how great the seal is and how tight they can be in your ear even if you sweat a lot like me.


----------



## Hisoundfi

goa604 said:


> It would make sense why i love my EDSE with ear plug sponge tips, they settle the highs a little bit and make lows stand out a little bit.
> Not to mention how great the seal is and how tight they can be in your ear even if you sweat a lot like me.


+1 

KZ EDSE is awesome, and comply foam tips work great to tame the treble if it bothers some people. For listening at lower volumes, EDSE is one of my all time favorites. Their over the ear fitment is great thanks to their heavier housing


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> It must be just slight product variation. Why would KZ even bother to tune Mic / non Mic versions in different manner? Doesn't make sense.


 
  


ruben123 said:


> Did you a/b them? Im not too sure about this too, because why would they change the sound?


 
  
 Sorry for poor quality photos.  I took these shots in dark room using my iphone. There is only light from my thunderbolt screen.
  
  
 Photos of ED9's cable  NON-MIC vs MIC  version
  

  

  

  
 different material may yield different sound.  I think I have to buy 4 more ED9 from different stores and compare the sound again.


----------



## RedTwilight

Wow page 300. SPARTAAAAAA!!!


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> Sorry for poor quality photos.  I took these shots in dark room using my iphone. There is only light from my thunderbolt screen.
> 
> 
> Photos of ED9's cable  NON-MIC vs MIC  version
> ...


 
 Nice pics.
  
 btw I'd say don't bother spending money on that bro. Cables indeed affect sound but to a little degree. Most of the difference people are listening is of course due to production variances. KZ makes cool products but come on, be realistic. They probably won't have high precision QC like some well known brand do. A comparison like this won't draw a permanent conclusion.


----------



## Ruben123

eisenbricher said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> btw I'd say don't bother spending money on that bro. Cables indeed affect sound but to a little degree. Most of the difference people are listening is of course due to production variances. KZ makes cool products but come on, be realistic. They probably won't have high precision QC like some well known brand do. A comparison like this won't draw a permanent conclusion.


 

 More interesting is: how do they differ in sound? Does one sound faulty or are they just different? Because that would mean it's hard to recommend it if they vary in sound.


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> More interesting is: how do they differ in sound? Does one sound faulty or are they just different? Because that would mean it's hard to recommend it if they vary in sound.


 
 No idea tbh... personally whatever I've bought from them (3x EDSE, 2x ED8m, 2x ED9, 2x ATE, ED3, R1) came without any defects and never failed me. So my experience with KZ has been great.


----------



## Ruben123

koolpep said:


> Yep, seems that they have quite a wide spread in the production. My two identical sets sounded very different. One was really sublime and one was good (but not great). So - I can see why some people don't like them and others are raving...


 

 Hey, are your filters attached the same? And are the filters -while the same colour- the same looking? No extra holes, other lengt etc.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> btw I'd say don't bother spending money on that bro. Cables indeed affect sound but to a little degree. Most of the difference people are listening is of course due to production variances. KZ makes cool products but come on, be realistic. They probably won't have high precision QC like some well known brand do. A comparison like this won't draw a permanent conclusion.


 
  
 I think the most of the difference people are listening is
  
 1. size S/M/L of eartips and the way they insert into their ears.  
 2. upgraded material
 3. production variances.   soldering work for ED9 is not quite easy for inexperience worker.
  
 Correct me if I'm wrong. If you has long experience with KZ.  You will know that sometime they upgrade their material.
 e.g. KZ-GR, they changed the filter and still call it KZ-GR.   Some model like LP, ANV they even upgrade the driver.  
  
 KZ is already well known brand.


----------



## CoiL

Some time ago I told here that a guy from my local PC forum bought 2 identical EDSE`s and one sounded littlebit different, not much though, while looking exactly same and using same cable. And btw, different guy from same forum told yesterday that his ATE highs are sharp and "ear-cutting"... which I found really weird and didn`t agree with using same albums in FLAC format.
 In case of some ED9`s it`s probably production/QC difference + cable differences together. 
 Anyway, it shouldn`t make BIG difference and probably most of ppl wouldn`t notice it so easily and would still recommend to get ED9 or ATE.
  


> ANV they even upgrade the driver.


 
 Really? Didn`t know that!


----------



## EISENbricher

ilikeiem said:


> I think the most of the difference people are listening is
> 
> 1. size S/M/L of eartips and the way they insert into their ears.
> 2. upgraded material
> ...



You are right as well and yeah that's why so many varying opinions around here...


----------



## r2muchstuff

Posted these impressions elsewhere Monday evening, realized they should be here.
 Edited:
 KZ ATE now have over 50hrs of "playing" so .... 
  
 First impressions:
  
 iPod iMod 128GB through an eBay caped LOD to a JDS Labs C5.
  
 JDS set to low gain and no bass boost.  Rock & Roll Classic Apple Lossless. Shuffle.
  
 Damn!!!!
 "I guess that's why they call it the blues" Elton John, just Damn.
  
 Stem is a tad long, "blue center tips" from KZ official Ail store will not work, using the large silicon that came with the ATE.
  
 Due to the long stem fit is not as good as Havi, these stick out too much. Ok, but could be better.  The over the ear style is great for active yard work sessions.  I added my free/adjustable chin chinch and they stay in place well despite not fitting as close as the Havi.
  
 Not Technical like KZ ED9, Just a good easy listening IEM.
  
 More KZ ATE first impression,
  
 Continuing with the iMod/JDS C5, classic rock shuffle.
 Some highlights:
  
 Moody Blues "The Other Side of Life" - so good I turned it up to far 
  
 Canned Heat from "Rolling & Tumbling"  Bad recording/mix/master.  So much fun with these ATE,  wonderful sounding distortion.
  
 Cat Stevens "Matthew & Son" - Engaging
  
 IMHO the ATE allow me to enjoy less than great recordings, going as far as make them fun to listen to again. The better recordings well....
  
 And today, with more listening I continue to enjoy the easy listening presentation, these work well with lesser kits like my Nano 4G/ FiiO E6 and with the less than great recordings, yet they scale up with better kits and sources.  With the easy listening and secure fit they may become, at least until the next thing, my go to yard working IEM. YMMV.
  
 Thanks,
 R


----------



## chavez

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32363841975.html
  
 Good seller?


----------



## r2muchstuff

chavez said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32363841975.html
> 
> Good seller?


 

 Others may know better than me.  I have only ordered from three Ali stores, two of which claimed to be KZ Official Flagship stores.  The first one disappeared and now another one.
  
 R


----------



## B9Scrambler

_*My thoughts on the ED9 vs. VSD3*_​  
 * These are my personal feelings and opinions based on how my donkey-brained ears hear these two iems in direct comparison to each other.
  
 ED9 w/ Gold Filter vs. VSD3
  
 - less bass, both sub and especially mid, but very similar texture
 - bass has more punch
 - requires more power
 - better clarity and instrument separation
 - mids not nearly as forward
 - treble not quite as sharp and well-controlled, but is more extended and emphasized
 - soundstage reasonably large and clearly defined; falls behind VSD3 but a noticeable margin
  
 ED9 w/ Brass Filter (stock, no mods) vs. VSD3
  
 - treble leaps further forward in clarity and separation; becomes sharper and with some previously absent simblance (almost shrill at times)
 - bass dials back significantly and now plays second fiddle to mids and treble, but is still punchy (not nearly enough bass for my personal preference...)
 - vocals take on a nice breathy vibe
 - soundstage opens up further but loses definition; still falls short of the VSD3's spacious soundstage
  
 Random
  
 - The VSD3 is much more forgiving of crappy quality recordings.
 - I used my UE600 medium bore tips for the comparo. Normally I run medium-sized, small bore Sony Hybrids on the VSD3 and large-sized, wide bore Huawei Honor tips on the ED9
  
 Summary
  
 ED9 with gold filters are very comparable to the VSD3. The VSD3 occasionally sounds boomy in comparison due to the mid-bass boost. The VSD3 displays a touch of veil in it's vocal presentation, but it's not really noticeable to me unless a/bing, ie. very minor. The brass filters give the ED9 a completely different, "audiophile" focused sound. They, in this form, cannot really compare to the VSD3 given they offer a totally different experience.
  
 I was pretty surprised how well the ED9 with gold filters held up against the VSD3. I actually prefer them now that I've had some solid time to a/b the two. I don't think anyone "downgrading" from the VSD3 would be disappointed in the ED9, especially when you factor in the price difference and leap in build quality (leaning completely in favor of the ED9) between the two.


----------



## sososerious

horton said:


> I like kz ed9, the appearance is beautiful and the sound is better.


.

Wow, don't know if serious or joking?!


----------



## goa604

I actually dont mind the post. Maybe its personal opinion of whoever is running the account. It would be wrong if it was posted in any other topic but this is KZ impressions thread after all.


----------



## Ruben123

There's been some other (chinese) advertisers here promoting their product and causing threads to get deleted (remember the xkdun thread anyone?)....but yeah ed9 is great as some here say so..


----------



## CoiL

Well, soundwise, ED9 IS very good and adjustable to one`s liking with nozzles/filters.... especially for the money. Period.


----------



## sodesuka

horton said:


> I like kz ed9, the appearance is beautiful and the sound is better.


 

 Just saw this at the front page
  
*(2015 New Arrival) Kz Ed9 Kz-ed9 Moving Coil Noise Cancelling Heavy Bass Music Hifi DJ Monitor Studio Sports Metal 3.5mm Earphones Headphones Earbuds for Iphone Samsung HTC Mp3 Mp4 / Better for Symphony/ Rock/ European and American Pop/ Dan*


> added by kzheadphone Today at 7:52 am





>





> Yeah I don't think that's how you'd want to promote your product, or even if you're just a (very) passionate kz fans.


----------



## CoiL

That is really lame! KZ promoting workers/fanatics - PLEASE stop it until it is too late and You`ll turn users/buyers against Yourself and get threads locked and user accounts banned!


----------



## Arsis

sodesuka said:


> Just saw this at the front page
> 
> *(2015 New Arrival) Kz Ed9 Kz-ed9 Moving Coil Noise Cancelling Heavy Bass Music Hifi DJ Monitor Studio Sports Metal 3.5mm Earphones Headphones Earbuds for Iphone Samsung HTC Mp3 Mp4 / Better for Symphony/ Rock/ European and American Pop/ Dan*
> 
> ...


Uuummmm.... say what?


----------



## martino416

Made an account cause this thread has got me hooked on IEM's. Purchased the ATE (silver and translucent) and ED9 about a month ago , and hopefully receiving them next week.


----------



## RedTwilight

So something came in the mail ytd..


----------



## martino416

Which store did you buy them from? 



redtwilight said:


> So something came in the mail ytd..


----------



## RedTwilight

martino416 said:


> Which store did you buy them from?


 
  
 These were from the first "Official KZ Store" http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html


----------



## aspire5550

redtwilight said:


> So something came in the mail ytd..




Is there any difference in sound quality when you run the ate through the dac/amp?

Or are dac/amp wasting on these 10-15usd IEM?

Sorry,I'm not too familiar with these.


----------



## RedTwilight

aspire5550 said:


> Is there any difference in sound quality when you run the ate through the dac/amp?
> 
> Or are dac/amp wasting on these 10-15usd IEM?
> 
> Sorry,I'm not too familiar with these.


 
  
 There was a difference actually. Direct out from the X3, the sound was cleaner and vocals were more intimate. Out from the Cmoy, the soundstage was noticeably larger and the background instruments came out, but theere seemed to be a bit more low level noise too.


----------



## aspire5550

redtwilight said:


> There was a difference actually. Direct out from the X3, the sound was cleaner and vocals were more intimate. Out from the Cmoy, the soundstage was noticeably larger and the background instruments came out, but theere seemed to be a bit more low level noise too.



May I know what file do you use? I won't notice a difference if I were to use YouTube/Spotify right?


----------



## RedTwilight

aspire5550 said:


> May I know what file do you use? I won't notice a difference if I were to use YouTube/Spotify right?


 
  
 I use FLAC and MP3 mostly, some MP3s are Youtube rips too. Lemme give it quick a/b.
  
 Edit: Yep still has that effect. Then again it's entirely possible that it's caused by the opamp in my amp. It's a JRC4556. Different amplifiers may result in different alterations to sound (although ideally not). Need to test against other 'commercial' amps but for now there's an audible difference.


----------



## Shadowsora

Just received my ED3, i like it so far, i don't think the treble is sibilant or harsh on contrary of other opinions by fellow headfiers.
 Imo ED3 is like a slightly more detailed EDSE, but lacking a bit on the low end while having a tiny bit more forward mids, i find them really good for long time period listenings.
  
 And as always, every time i receive a KZ IEM i just forget how much i paid for them, those metal housings are just great.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Just received my ED3, i like it so far, i don't think the treble is sibilant or harsh on contrary of other opinions by fellow headfiers.
> Imo ED3 is like a slightly more detailed EDSE, but lacking a bit on the low end while having a tiny bit more forward mids, i find them really good for long time period listenings.
> 
> And as always, every time i receive a KZ IEM i just forget how much i paid for them, those metal housings are just great.



Yep, I agree with the findings. 
Oh and those smooth metal cylinders are my favorite among all KZ lineup, as far as build quality is concerned.


----------



## Horton

Is the with mic and no mic headphone is different sound , by different cable ?


----------



## Horton

ilikeiem said:


> Sorry for poor quality photos.  I took these shots in dark room using my iphone. There is only light from my thunderbolt screen.
> 
> 
> Photos of ED9's cable  NON-MIC vs MIC  version
> ...


 
 Is the with mic and no mic headphone is different sound , by different cable ?


----------



## AlecR

Is the ATE still the newest model?


----------



## martino416

alecr said:


> Is the ATE still the newest model?


 

 Yes


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> > If anyone has other ideas, other brands/models that has a nice cable and mic (and are cheap, obviously), I'm totally open to that too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Adding some more options:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/120cm-5n-OFC-Super-Soft-Black-DIY-Cable-For-Ultimate-Westone-Sennheiser-earphone-repair-LN004294/32232520746.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Super-Soft-5N-OFC-DIY-Earphone-Cable-for-Westone-Shure-Fitear-Headset-etc-LN004248/32232538389.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Super-Soft-5N-OFC-DIY-Earphone-Cable-for-AKG-Sennheise-hd598-philips-etc-LN004251/32232507734.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Super-soft-cable-for-IE6-IE7-earphone-upgrade-repair-replace-DIY-wire-cable-Line-Free-Shipping/32225601585.html
  
 NEW (added 20.06.2015): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Moxpad-x3-earphones-line-pure-music-hifi-bass-replacement-cable-tape-memory-wire-without-with/32247656576.html
  
 Edit: I made my mind and ordered those 2:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Semi-Finished-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-IE800-repair-upgrade-LBH1026/2044467318.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3m-Semi-Finished-OFC-270-Degree-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-wire-cable-LN004480/32229879102.html
  
 For me there were 3 main requirements for cable:
 1) No straight 3,5mm jack. I prefer "45" angle but 90 is also ok.
 2) Has to be very soft/fexible/thin but not rubbery/sticky like ED9 brown cable. More "slippy" sleeving = less microphonics also.
 3) small/thin and smooth-shaped Y splitter. Bulky "rectangular" shaped with edges causes it stuck sometimes and creates possible breaking point to cable.
  
 Will give feedback when I receive them.


----------



## dehsA

Has anyone tried the KZ S6? Looking for a cheaper and durable pair of KZ for running.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S6-Sports-Headphones-Mobile-Phone-Earphones-With-Microphone-HIFI-Noise-Cancelling-Bass-Headsets-Music-Stereo/32315377429.html
  
 Also, I prefer the sound signature of the ED8 over the EDSE, which would you guys recommend between the ED9 and the ATE?


----------



## EISENbricher

dehsa said:


> Has anyone tried the KZ S6? Looking for a cheaper and durable pair of KZ for running.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S6-Sports-Headphones-Mobile-Phone-Earphones-With-Microphone-HIFI-Noise-Cancelling-Bass-Headsets-Music-Stereo/32315377429.html
> 
> Also, I prefer the sound signature of the ED8 over the EDSE, which would you guys recommend between the ED9 and the ATE?


 
 That's not a standard KZ product IMO (or a dated KZ product), I couldn't find its mention on their official site http://www.kzearphone.com/
  
 I too prefer ED8's sound sig over EDSE. I'd say go for ATE. I find it great for genres which ED8 is good at.
 Though, buy both ED9 and ATE if you can, both are equally awesome.


----------



## dcpmale

Hi guys, created an account here for asking this. Currently I have a Vsonic GR99. I don't like too much bass and would like to have a iem with a bit more clarity,treble and sound stage than my Vsonic GR99. Is any of the KZ ED9, ATE and EDSE the right choice for me? or I won't notice much difference from GR99?


----------



## anticute

dcpmale said:


> Hi guys, created an account here for asking this. Currently I have a Vsonic GR99. I don't like too much bass and would like to have a iem with a bit more clarity,treble and sound stage than my Vsonic GR99. Is any of the KZ ED9, ATE and EDSE the right choice for me? or I won't notice much difference from GR99?


 
 I haven't heard the GR99, so I can't say if you will notice a difference, but for those requirements, out of the three I'd say ED9 with brass nozzles.


----------



## dcpmale

Thanks for the suggestion. GR99 is a decent budget iem, but I'm not satisfied with it. I was ready to buy Astrotek AM90 before I stumbled upon this thread. Since KZ's are very cheap I'm ready to try them. I just wanna know what to expect compared to GR99. Also, EDSE is readily available in my country for 7 dollars, are they good?


----------



## CoiL

+1 ...though, ATE soundstage might be littlebit better but difference is small. But since You seem to prefer more brighter-oriented sound, probably ED9 is better way to go


----------



## dcpmale

Thanks guys, gonna order both ED9 and ATE  from Aliexpress. Is there any recommended seller?  Also, can anyone suggest a good cheap foam tip and triple flanged tip from Aliexpress?


----------



## CoiL

ATE already has foam tips with it with ok quality. For ED9 foam tips are not recommended... actually same goes for ATE, imho.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

Forgive me for not reading this whole thread. Not sure if the *KZ X6* is any good, but it is in sale for* $6.40USD*:
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32315369571.html


----------



## chavez

bloodypenguin said:


> Forgive me for not reading this whole thread. Not sure if the *KZ X6* is any good, but it is in sale for* $6.40USD*:
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32315369571.html


 
  
 Better get ED8 for 2$ more.Cheers mate.


----------



## CoiL

@BloodyPenguin ,what are You searching for? What is Your preferred sound signature? Why X6?
  
 I suggest You to read more about ED9 and ATE backwards in this thread.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

coil said:


> @BloodyPenguin
> ,what are You searching for? What is Your preferred sound signature? Why X6?
> 
> I suggest Your to read more about ED9 and ATE backwards in this thread.




I was not looking to buy, just passing on the deal if anyone was interested. But sounds like it is not one of the better KZ models.

..


----------



## OctroN

Guys, i need your guidance. I want to buy the KZ Ate, but i don`t know which version to get. Should i get the aluminium or plastic casing, and does the case type influence the sound quality ?
  
 Also on aliexpress, besides the official store account ( where the price is 26 $ ) , all other accounts selling the ATE have listing prices of 10-13 $. I also checked on amazon and the price is the same ( around 13 $ ). Do you guys recommend any other seller, other than the official listings ?
  
 Thank you very much.


----------



## mebaali

octron said:


> Guys, i need your guidance. I want to buy the KZ Ate, but i don`t know which version to get. Should i get the aluminium or plastic casing, and does the case type influence the sound quality ?
> 
> Also on aliexpress, besides the official store account ( where the price is 26 $ ) , all other accounts selling the ATE have listing prices of 10-13 $. I also checked on amazon and the price is the same ( around 13 $ ). Do you guys recommend any other seller, other than the official listings ?
> 
> Thank you very much.


 
 IINW, KZ ATE does not use any metal casing, either in its silver color form or in black translucent form. Both are plastic casings. I do not own both forms of ATE so can't comment on the sound differences (have only silver colored non-mic version and it sounds pretty awesome for its pricing)
  
 I bought mine for US $10 (at aliexpress) but that seller has increased it to US $12.50 since then.
  
 This aliexpress seller seems to have got good feedback (from his previous rating points)and price of ATEs also very low http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32364936735.html


----------



## Starfield

Are there any KZ iem with removable cable? (other than the old R3)


----------



## EISENbricher

starfield said:


> Are there any KZ iem with removable cable? (other than the old R3)



I think the IE80 clone. No one among newer KZ models.


----------



## nelson996

from official kz store...
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/1358152_32360820157.html


----------



## nelson996

...also, just my brief experience of the ED9 vs ATE battle...
  
 I personally prefer the ATEs.
  
 The ED9s are too bassy with the shiny gold filters, with little vocal and top end presentation, where the brass dull filters go the other way. If there was a filter midway between....
  
 The ATEs are (bearing in mind cost to performance ratio) are much better balanced, more musical, good soundstage and less picky about source (Clip+ with MP3s and Shanling M3 with Flac).
  
 The ATEs allow me to enjoy the music without making me over analyse the presentation.
  
 But for the price, they are both very good earphones, with the ATEs being my pick at the moment!!
  
 P.S. ED9 have the better build quality, but I prefer the form factor of the ATEs!


----------



## CoiL

> If there was a filter midway between....


 
 Try dfferent amount & type of foam inside brass nozzles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not saying it makes wonders but it might work for You.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/4425#post_11672347
  
 I also find ATE littlebit better for my taste but ED9 is also very good.


----------



## ayao

nelson996 said:


> from official kz store...
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/1358152_32360820157.html


 
 The description about the brass and gold filters actually makes sense, while everything else is the usual nonsense like the sentence immediately afterwards "Innovative make Nozzles end as light export." It even looks out of place because of the 2X2 table format... almost as if they took the description off somewhere...
  
 Never mind that, I can't wait to receive my ED9!


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Try dfferent amount & type of foam inside brass nozzles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Funny You should mention That, Coil. I'm also leaning towards that myself. Last Night I took The Dunu Titans and The  KZ ATEs with me for my nightly Drive. I found the Titans were fatiguing to listen to more than about 2 hrs, whereas I spent the better part of 6 hrs. enjoying the ATE. They sound great and are easy to listen to for long periods. I think the forward presentation of Phones like the Titan and ED9 tend to be more fatiguing.
  
 JMO
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just received the CM9 and ANV Yesterday, (Sat.). Got a chance for a quick listen and Tip Roll on both. Put The ANV up for later, and started burn-in on the CM9. Found that the clear Med. silicone (smoke) tips from my AKG K374 sound best on them. Tried them this morning. These are extremely impressive on short listen. Massive, fast, Bass!!!  Good mid presentation on vocals, not recessed nor up front, and no sibilance on the highs.... so far. This is with only 15 Hours on them and just a first impression. They are also extremely comfortable for me. I knew they would be as they are almost identical to the Dunu Titan in shape.
  
 I still can't believe what KZ is doing with earphones at the price range. This quality at their price would be unheard of even 2 years ago!!!
  
 Right now I am Burning in CM9, EDES, ATE at the same time..... we should all have such problems.
  








 TWIN


----------



## lesp4ul

Just recieved my ATE, damn I supposed to bring it along my trip 4 days ago. Well, i got new nice little "shield" shape packaging, 1 pair of earhook, 1 pair foam tips, 2 pair of silicon tips. The iem housing itself i must give 3.5/5 for build quality and 4/5 for fitting. My first impression of this budget gem is okay-ish, separation is good, warmish, no fatiguing highs, no overpowered bass, but i can't feel diana krall's vocal yet. I'll let it burn for 20-30 hours and test again.


----------



## theuprising

Hey guys after being blown away by the price-performance ratio of full-sized headphones from obscure Chinese companies like Takstar, I'm wondering if similar deals can be found in the IEM world.
  
 How do these compare in price-performance to the SHE3905, TTPOD T1E, and Monoprice 8320? I have the 3905 and I'm pretty disappointed.


----------



## EISENbricher

theuprising said:


> Hey guys after being blown away by the price-performance ratio of full-sized headphones from obscure Chinese companies like Takstar, I'm wondering if similar deals can be found in the IEM world.
> 
> How do these compare in price-performance to the SHE3905, TTPOD T1E, and Monoprice 8320? I have the 3905 and I'm pretty disappointed.


 
 IEM world has lot of goodies for you. IMO even better than headphone range.
  
 Get a taste of KZ's latest releases ATE and ED9 to know how amazing is the VFM factor offered by KZ. Other releases are also worth to try and still are good buys : ED Special Edition, ED8m, DT3 and more.
  
 Going up, I'd recommend Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, which is a real giant killer. Other brands that have products punching above the asking price are Fidue, Havi, TTPOD. There are still more, fellow head-fiers would be able to help if you post your exact requirement, preferences and budget.


----------



## peter123

eisenbricher said:


> *IEM world has lot of goodies for you. IMO even better than headphone range.*
> 
> Get a taste of KZ's latest releases ATE and ED9 to know how amazing is the VFM factor offered by KZ. Other releases are also worth to try and still are good buys : ED Special Edition, ED8m, DT3 and more.
> 
> Going up, I'd recommend Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, which is a real giant killer. Other brands that have products punching above the asking price are Fidue, Havi, TTPOD.




I totally agree on the bold part. Much cheaper shipping is one explanation but it also seem to be a never ending flood of companies making great value for money IEM's


----------



## aaDee

ED9 are already on their way and ATE have discount today. Only $9.76. Should I go for it??


----------



## aaDee

aadee said:


> ED9 are already on their way and ATE have discount today. Only $9.76. Should I go for it??


Seems everyone prefers ATE over ED9


----------



## BloodyPenguin

aadee said:


> ED9 are already on their way and ATE have discount today. Only $9.76. Should I go for it??


 
 Link?
  
 I did search, but I must be missing it.  I see a few for around that price though.
  
 ..


----------



## aaDee

bloodypenguin said:


> Link?
> 
> I did search, but I must be missing it.  I see a few for around that price though.
> 
> ..



Its an app only deal. On Mobile app


----------



## BloodyPenguin

aadee said:


> Its an app only deal. On Mobile app


 
 I see it now.  Thanks.
  
 ..


----------



## aaDee

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32348791765.html?productId=32348791765&productId=32348791765&tracelog=rowan&productSubject=-&productSubject=-&rowan_id2=ae_pay_low_mail_template_en_US_2015-06-14&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail


----------



## theuprising

eisenbricher said:


> IEM world has lot of goodies for you. IMO even better than headphone range.
> 
> Get a taste of KZ's latest releases ATE and ED9 to know how amazing is the VFM factor offered by KZ. Other releases are also worth to try and still are good buys : ED Special Edition, ED8m, DT3 and more.
> 
> Going up, I'd recommend Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, which is a real giant killer. Other brands that have products punching above the asking price are Fidue, Havi, TTPOD. There are still more, fellow head-fiers would be able to help if you post your exact requirement, preferences and budget.


 
 I'm looking for a headphone for classical and rock, _and most importantly want isolation_, so the ED9 is probably out of the running immediately. So something like the Tenore would be ideal but is more than I'm willing to spend on IEM, especially the Tenore which is said to have terrible build quality. My iem's aways get gummed up with earwax or short. The soundsoul s018 has been favorably compared to be at the same level as the headphones you've listed so I'm interested in that, especially since you can get it, and the T1E, from amazon rather than from China with 1-2 month delivery.
  
 I guess it would interesting to buy cheap ATE or something, and in the meantime get another IEM.


----------



## CoiL

> so the ED9 is probably out of the running immediately.


 
 Actually, ED9 seals quite well despite it being open-back.


----------



## theuprising

coil said:


> Actually, ED9 seals quite well despite it being open-back.


 
 O.o, really? Reviews state its isolation is "average", which again is far more than I would expect for an open back. I need an IEM for use in the car.


----------



## bduncan5

theuprising said:


> I'm looking for a headphone for classical and rock, _and most importantly want isolation_, so the ED9 is probably out of the running immediately. So something like the Tenore would be ideal but is more than I'm willing to spend on IEM, especially the Tenore which is said to have terrible build quality. My iem's aways get gummed up with earwax or short. The soundsoul s018 has been favorably compared to be at the same level as the headphones you've listed so I'm interested in that, especially since you can get it, and the T1E, from amazon rather than from China with 1-2 month delivery.
> 
> I guess it would interesting to buy cheap ATE or something, and in the meantime get another IEM.


 

 Boy I really have to disagree. The ED9 is great for classical and jazz..... anything with real instruments it's excellent , it does rock well too. Isolation is on par with most IEM's. It's a no brainer for $50 let alone $10.


----------



## theuprising

bduncan5 said:


> Boy I really have to disagree. The ED9 is great for classical and jazz..... anything with real instruments it's excellent , it does rock well too. Isolation is on par with most IEM's. It's a no brainer for $50 let alone $10.


 
 I say its out of the running b/c it literally has 2 large holes in its back making it not ideal for car trips. Are those actual ports or just for style?


----------



## anticute

As I've mentioned in this thread earlier - I'm on a rather noisy bus two hours per day, so isolation is super important to me. To my surprise, I found that the ED9 with foam tips has rather good isolation (don't ask me how, I was really surprised), while I was actually rather disappointed with the isolation on the ATE, which I was expecting to isolate really well. ED9 is one of the few earphones I've tried that isolate well enough to use on the commute.
  
 That being said, I'm thinking that for the exact same reasons, ATE ought to make a great running headphone, since you're more likely to pick up ambient noises..
  
 On that note, if someone has a tip on some other giant killer with even better isolation, I'm all.. well, ears.


----------



## CoiL

theuprising said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, ED9 seals quite well despite it being open-back.
> ...


 
 I use them almost every day while driving to work and back home, 2x35min, with classic car from 78` which engine makes way more noise than modern cars... I have no problem using ED9.


----------



## chavez

Isn't it a little dangerous to use headphones/earphones while driving?


----------



## robervaul

That kind of font printed in ED9 reminds me of something.


----------



## EISENbricher

Idk what are you guys comparing the isolation with. Both ATE and ED9 have just average isolation with ATE's isolation is comparatively a little worse. 

I recently completed a 3 day tour in bus and for me both were pretty unusable. (it was a simple, non ac bus). 

Best setups I could find were Tenore and TTPOD with foam tips. They isolate pretty good. KZ ED8 is also good at isolation. It's also my touring partner most of the times.


----------



## EISENbricher

theuprising said:


> I'm looking for a headphone for classical and rock, _and most importantly want isolation_, so the ED9 is probably out of the running immediately. So something like the Tenore would be ideal but is more than I'm willing to spend on IEM, especially the Tenore which is said to have terrible build quality. My iem's aways get gummed up with earwax or short. The soundsoul s018 has been favorably compared to be at the same level as the headphones you've listed so I'm interested in that, especially since you can get it, and the T1E, from amazon rather than from China with 1-2 month delivery.
> 
> I guess it would interesting to buy cheap ATE or something, and in the meantime get another IEM.



You may try ED9 or ATE since they are so cheap. Soundsoul is pretty good but unfortunately I personally don't prefer its sound sig too much. It had another downside of bad springy cable.


----------



## CoiL

chavez said:


> Isn't it a little dangerous to use headphones/earphones while driving?


 
 Lol, everywhere I mention it someone makes an issue from it. Let me ask this way - Isn`t driving while 3000W EDM is playing and all You could hear is BOOM BOOM BOOM dangerous? You can argue as much as You want but this is same thing, heck, even worse imo. Not to say things about using mobile phone which is much worse, even when using BT or handsfree - it takes away Your senses from traffic and reaction much more. Unfortunately almost everyone are doing it.
 Btw, I`m mostly using IEMs while driving on highway. In city traffic it can be littlebit dangerous if You aren`t careful/concious driver enough. Well, I can honestly say - I am!


----------



## souvikdas95

After 500+ hours listening on EDSE... comply's got torn apart ... using the double flanged ear tips... iem's still working fabulously... infact, the bass quantity has increased exponentially than before... bass quality has little improved... treble has calmed down... soundstage appears to be same yet feels a little different - the 3D effect feels better than before... clarity of voices and instruments has improved too - especially the separation and synchronization.


----------



## CoiL

Could be also 500+ hours of brain burn-in


----------



## lesp4ul

After listening to ATE for a while, now I'm confused to pay my friend's barely used VSonic AN16 or not (>.<)"


----------



## TwinACStacks

Hi Fi, Coil, WHAT are these? They look like copies of Zero Audio Carbos??? From what I gather the less weird looking one has interchangeable nozzles.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/D2-pro-carbon-fiber-cavity-6mm-ring-diy-ear-earphones-fever/2012495870.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-DEL-mobile-phone-earphones-heavy-bass-sport-HIFI-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets-music/1478574098.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## musiclife

coil said:


> I don`t have them but by comments in this thread... no. Stick with ED9, ATE, ANV. For Your "old" ears (not trying to be mean) EDSE could be also ok in highs section but I still find them littlebit lacking is bass & mids + highs have SSSsss sibilance in vocals and "splashy" bright.


 

 I am all about flat sound response. For example I love my RE-400. Wich model of KZ would be good for me? I want a cheaper alternative that I will not be afraid to loose or damage in travel.


----------



## Ruben123

Kz anv and ed9 as far as I know (don't own them).


----------



## CoiL

Yes, once again... ED9 (with brass filters + foam) and ATE (with silicone tips). But if You want "dead-flat" response, then most "flat" out of KZs I have tried is ANV.


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> Hi Fi, Coil, WHAT are these? They look like copies of Zero Audio Carbos??? From what I gather the less weird looking one has interchangeable nozzles.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/D2-pro-carbon-fiber-cavity-6mm-ring-diy-ear-earphones-fever/2012495870.html
> 
> ...


They look like a rebrand of the Sidy HK-1


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> Hi Fi, Coil, WHAT are these? They look like copies of Zero Audio Carbos??? From what I gather the less weird looking one has interchangeable nozzles.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/D2-pro-carbon-fiber-cavity-6mm-ring-diy-ear-earphones-fever/2012495870.html
> 
> ...


 

 No idea, don`t ask from me. But they certainly look appealing, especially first one with fabric cable and exchangeable nozzles.


----------



## twister6

KZ ED10
  

  
  
 KZ ED10, http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-b.w4011-10484852477.30.JrBwta&id=520110988064&rn=4bf64be13189768921b198b502410f7c&abbucket=11
  
 Another $10+ gem?
  
  
 BTW, Zhengnan is KZ official distributor on Amazon US, selling their ED9, ATE (silver and black), etc. for $13.90 + $3 s&h.  I'm hoping to get ED10 for testing as well.


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Hi Fi, Coil, WHAT are these? They look like copies of Zero Audio Carbos??? From what I gather the less weird looking one has interchangeable nozzles.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/D2-pro-carbon-fiber-cavity-6mm-ring-diy-ear-earphones-fever/2012495870.html
> 
> ...




I've been itching to buy these for a while now. I think Master Wokei still has a pair...said they were better than the Micro Ring, so that's a good sign.


----------



## altrunox

twister6 said:


> KZ ED10
> KZ ED10, http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-b.w4011-10484852477.30.JrBwta&id=520110988064&rn=4bf64be13189768921b198b502410f7c&abbucket=11
> 
> Another $10+ gem?
> ...


 
  
 Well, it's their best looking model until now, IMO.
 Although looks really bulky and maybe uncomfortable


----------



## peter123

theuprising said:


> O.o, really? Reviews state its isolation is "average", which again is far more than I would expect for an open back. I need an IEM for use in the car.




The isolation on the ED9's is average at best in my experience. The same goes for the Soundsoul I'm afraid. 



eisenbricher said:


> You may try ED9 or ATE since they are so cheap. Soundsoul is pretty good but unfortunately I personally don't prefer its sound sig too much. It had another downside of bad springy cable.




I agree with you, to me the ED9's are superior in every way


----------



## CoiL

altrunox said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > KZ ED10
> ...


 
 Design (small short shape) is exactly what I`ve been looking from KZ! So going to get them!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Price is too high atm though: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html


----------



## sodesuka

They looks good, will be getting them for sure!
  
 By the way, what's with those description? 
  
 Google TL'ed


> This will be the last one KZ traditional headphones, and then we will move the center of gravity headset developed to another area. We can find a lot of shadow on the body ED10 KZ course, it will give KZ on traditional headphones draw a satisfactory conclusion.
> 
> 
> With a new structure of zinc alloy die cavity system into quality compared to the preceding zinc alloy headset alleviate a lot more comfortable to wear.
> ...


 
 center of gravity headset? smart HIFI field? intelligent tuning wire headset? Are they talking about bluetooth headset? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Could anyone who understands Chinese clarify?


----------



## CoiL

Who cares!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope they sound good.


----------



## RedTwilight

twister6 said:


> KZ ED10
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The design is reminscent of the Dunu 1k.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Might get the ED10, but I'm pumped for their next release. Could this be the KZ BA/hybrid/experiment we've been waiting for? I have no idea, but I doubt its going to be cheap. Hope its a game changer.


----------



## sodesuka

or planar or electrostatic lol, but seeing those 'smart' and 'intelligent' thing somehow lead me to believe they're talking about bluetooth/aptx of some kind... I hope not, I'm not in the market for that and KZ would probably alienate a lot of their fans if they do that.
  
 Guess we'll see in July!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Maybe it'll be a headset that uses tuned cables to achieve unique signatures? Either way, call me intrigued...


----------



## aaDee

Ordered ED9, was about to order ATE and saw ED10,was thinking to order them and news come about new headphones are coming in July. Why you confusing us KZ?


----------



## EISENbricher

Yeap, I also was told about 'smart' and 'intelligent' while talking with KZ support. That's all about upcoming release. I too think that it'll be BT/AptX thingy.
  
 Would be pretty cool if they release AptX at lower asking price.


----------



## ilikeiem

eisenbricher said:


> Yeap, I also was told about 'smart' and 'intelligent' while talking with KZ support. That's all about upcoming release. I too think that it'll be BT/AptX thingy.
> 
> Would be pretty cool if they release AptX at lower asking price.


 
  
 I think it's intelligent tuning for wired headset.  Let's see it on early August.


----------



## altrunox

I think they don't speak english really well so...


----------



## TwinACStacks

Thanx Guys. Coil, These look interesting as well:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AudioSense-Quad-core-Dual-moving-coil-Moving-iron-Iron-ring-HIFI-Fever-wire-headset-V2-Free/32340956324.html
  
 BTW: I just ordered the carbo copy with the exchangeable nozzles and cloth wire. I LOVE cloth covered wires!!!!
  
 Hope it sounds for ****.
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

Ordered ED10 from TaoBao using MisterTao. Costed me $11.50 initially and with SG post shipping I'll need to pay another $3~$5.


----------



## sodesuka

Wish mistertao accepts paypal, oh well, I'll wait for you guys' impression this time, hope it ships fast!


----------



## aaDee

twinacstacks said:


> Thanx Guys. Coil, These look interesting as well:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AudioSense-Quad-core-Dual-moving-coil-Moving-iron-Iron-ring-HIFI-Fever-wire-headset-V2-Free/32340956324.html
> 
> ...



Those look interesting


----------



## Ruben123

Wow
  
 Thats the only word to describe the ED9s that just arrived....
  
 Wow.
 How could they ask $12 for them, even $7 I paid for them?
  
 I wouldnt even have paid $1 if I knew this. Theyre horrible. When reading this all they MUST be defective. They sound so bad it's unbelievable. I expected the brass filters to sound neutral or natural, but I have NEVER heard any earphone that sounded so bad. They are hollow sounding, almost only one gigantic peak at the 6k Hz region, and the rest of the spectrum is not to be heard. Maybe a very tiny bit of the 200hz region, because of the hollowness.
  
 I tried different tips, different sources and different sorts of music. Mozart's piano concertos, symphonies, Bob Dylan, Michael Jackson. Im astonished.
  
 Gold filters v-shaped? What?? Only lows, after 600 Hz or so the frequency response goes down VERY quickly.
  
 Im so amazed. Are you all deaf or are mine broken. Yes because of they were called somewhere the IEMs that Havi tried to make I compared them, which is not fair, but MP8320 also thrumps them. What do I say. Even $1 earphones are better, I NEVER heard worse.
  
 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> Wow
> 
> Thats the only word to describe the ED9s that just arrived....
> 
> ...


 
 Of course yours are broken. Chill and get new or get refund. 
 Which seller did you buy from?
  
 Post some close pics here. Let's see if we are able to find a copy.


----------



## anticute

ruben123 said:


> Wow
> 
> Thats the only word to describe the ED9s that just arrived....
> 
> ...


 
 That's exactly how mine sounded after the connector started glitching. It's probably a bad connection between the cable and the connector. Try wiggling it around, push it in different directions etc. Beware of the fact that the volume might get quite a bit higher when you get it right.. Anyway, there was no saving mine, so I'd get a refund and a new pair if I were you..


----------



## Ruben123

Yeah they must be broken. It's unbelievable. Will check the connections in a few minutes, they were almost as power hungry as the Havis so that may explain something...
  
 EDIT
 Link store: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html


----------



## anticute

Yeah, they should be WAY less power hungry compared to the B3P1..


----------



## Ruben123

Well no luck at 3.5mm jack and Y splitter. Will spend some more time with them to be 100% sure theyre not broken...


----------



## Arsis

ruben123 said:


> Wow
> 
> Thats the only word to describe the ED9s that just arrived....
> 
> ...


If they sound so hollow perhaps they got wired out of phase.


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> Yeah they must be broken. It's unbelievable. Will check the connections in a few minutes, they were almost as power hungry as the Havis so that may explain something...
> 
> EDIT
> Link store: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html


 
 idk this store was selling ED9 for like $6 and I've s well ordered one pair from em. There's still some time for that pair to arrive. Let's see. 
 I wild guess is that they got hold of defective batch of ED9 and sold for cheap? Just a wild guess. Otherwise they're too generous to sell it for less than $6, shipping included.


----------



## Hisoundfi

arsis said:


> If they sound so hollow perhaps they got wired out of phase.


+1

Dont waste your time trying to get them to sound good, they should be phenomenal out of the box. 

Contact the seller and tell them they sound defective.


----------



## HairyAss

I think you just have to let them burn in, for at least 24 hrs.


----------



## Hisoundfi

hairyass said:


> I think you just have to let them burn in, for at least 24 hrs.


You have the most gnarly avatar name in Head-Fi history!


----------



## CoiL

I bought also 2x ED9 from that tombuy... we`ll see, I haven`t received mine yet. I really hope that this seller isn`t selling bad batch or something to get profit out of it.


----------



## theuprising

Hmm so under 40 other than the Tenore what do you guys think is the best IEM? I'm torn b/w the T1-e and ED9, considering I'm not sure the T1-e will fit me and there have been build quality concerns. If anyone has any others I should be considering, pls chime in.


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Thanx Guys. Coil, These look interesting as well:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AudioSense-Quad-core-Dual-moving-coil-Moving-iron-Iron-ring-HIFI-Fever-wire-headset-V2-Free/32340956324.html
> 
> ...




Those look nice. Plus, from what I can tell, they use what looks to be the same inline mic setup from the NarMoo B2M/W1M, which works really well.


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> They look like a rebrand of the Sidy HK-1


 






 Yep Hi Fi, I went to Penon Audio, it sure looks the same. NOW I am quite excited. They have *stellar* reviews wherever you can find one. Apparently the Driver is in the Nozzle and the body serves as a sound chamber. Very interesting....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> Yep Hi Fi, I went to Penon Audio, it sure looks the same. NOW I am quite excited. They have *stellar* reviews wherever you can find one. Apparently the Driver is in the Nozzle and the body serves as a sound chamber. Very interesting....
> 
> TWIN


I have two pair of the hk-1. They are epic. Huge soundstage


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> I have two pair of the hk-1. They are epic. Huge soundstage


 





 Cool. Have you tried the Sidy DM3? Sounds like it has a Biological Diaphram material like the VSonic GR07, Little more spendy than the KZ's but worth it if the sound is there.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top-sound-quality-SIDY-DM3-in-ear-metal-earbud-earphone-headphone-DIY-model-high-quality-free/32360408662.html
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> Cool. Have you tried the Sidy DM3? Sounds like it has a Bio-cellular driver like the VSonic GR07, Little more spendy than the KZ's but worth it if the sound is there.
> 
> TWIN


Pass on it. 

Too warm and not enough top end to support the low frequencies. 

My opinion


----------



## Maxima7

How is the KZ ANV? I can't really find a substantial review on it such as sound, isolation, fit, etc. Also, the models are sort of confusing since descriptions mention 2013 and 2014.. Is there a 2013 and 2014 version that look the same?


----------



## martino416

eisenbricher said:


> idk this store was selling ED9 for like $6 and I've s well ordered one pair from em. There's still some time for that pair to arrive. Let's see.
> I wild guess is that they got hold of defective batch of ED9 and sold for cheap? Just a wild guess. Otherwise they're too generous to sell it for less than $6, shipping included.


 

 Doubt it. Sellers on online platforms such as eBay and Ali do this all the time to get increased orders to their stores and gain feedback. Essentially a loss leader.


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> Pass on it.
> 
> Too warm and not enough top end to support the low frequencies.
> 
> My opinion


 






 Thanx HiFi.  It's nice to have an opinion of someone who can save you some $$$$.
  
 God Knows how much your confounded reviews have cost me all ready.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

maxima7 said:


> How is the KZ ANV? I can't really find a substantial review on it such as sound, isolation, fit, etc. Also, the models are sort of confusing since descriptions mention 2013 and 2014.. Is there a 2013 and 2014 version that look the same?


 





 I have a Pair that I am breaking in right now. I've only had an initial listen but from the little I have heard They are very Full, Balanced and Fairly flat EQ-wise. I am taking them on my 10 Hr. nightly Run to Cincinnati tomorrow night with 50 Hrs. Burn-in on them, and I will be able to give you more info/impressions then. Mine appear to be Ceramic and say GK on the driver backs, also left/right is written in silvery-gold script on the tops.
  








 TWIN


----------



## aspire5550

Ok, so I've talked with the support over at the kz official store at aliexpress. I spoke with them in Mandarin and they seem friendlier and more glad to answer my questions.

Ed10 will be their last "traditional style" earphone. From what the person said, ed9 might still have the better sound quality, but ed10 uses a speaker from a well known earphone brand, so the sound quality is still very good.

As for the newest earphone that is coming out, I don't really understand what type of earphone is that but he said it is going to be a very good one.

Okay, after some googling. I've come to the conclusion that the next earphone is just a earphone with volume control for smart phones.not some next gen smart or intelligent tuning.

Something to add on, I'm starting to think that the flagship store from aliexpress is just another reseller. 
Apparently,they are preparing to sell ed9 but ed10 has already been released. Ed10 will be quite limited tho, as they will only manufacture until they finished the orders for ed10.

And when I asked which of the earphones are among the best sound quality wise, he mentioned ed9 and the upcoming new earphone with volume control.


----------



## bhazard

twinacstacks said:


> Cool. Have you tried the Sidy DM3? Sounds like it has a Biological Diaphram material like the VSonic GR07, Little more spendy than the KZ's but worth it if the sound is there.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top-sound-quality-SIDY-DM3-in-ear-metal-earbud-earphone-headphone-DIY-model-high-quality-free/32360408662.html
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's not there. Been trying to sell mine for awhile.


----------



## RedTwilight

twinacstacks said:


> Thanx Guys. Coil, These look interesting as well:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AudioSense-Quad-core-Dual-moving-coil-Moving-iron-Iron-ring-HIFI-Fever-wire-headset-V2-Free/32340956324.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks kinda like the Sennheiser CX2.00 or smth. Are you gonna spring on it?
  


aspire5550 said:


> Ok, so I've talked with the support over at the kz official store at aliexpress. I spoke with them in Mandarin and they seem friendlier and more glad to answer my questions.
> 
> Ed10 will be their last "traditional style" earphone. From what the person said, ed9 might still have the better sound quality, but ed10 uses a speaker from a well known earphone brand, so the sound quality is still very good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Shenzhen Yuan Ze shop should be the OEM I think. On my ATE packaging, it says made by Shen Zhen Yuan Ze Electronics Co.


----------



## ilikeiem

You guys underestimate SIDY-DM3.  For some kind of music, none of KZ iem can beat it.  Sound resolution is even better than ED9 but if you have old ears you can't hear it.  For old ears, boost the treble using EQ.
  
 Take this one as an example:


----------



## jmwreck

just got the ED9, after several weeks of using the she3590 and gr02 be on weekends, I can say that it competes with the gr02. Bass is really great (not sure if it's the quantity a basshead is looking for) using the gold nozzles, I find the brass weak in bass. I can't say about brass' details/clarity yet since I'm still enjoying the gold.

D6503


----------



## altrunox

The defectives ED09 should be only bad luck their QC don't look much different from Vsonic or HiFiMan IEMs, at least this time it's just 10 bucks...


----------



## theuprising

Hmm pulled the trigger on the ED9, 23 shipped from Amazon. I was scared away from the TTPOD as it nearly had as many poor build quality stories as the Tenore, that and the fact some people rated the ED9 higher than the T1e.
  
 I still am not sure since the T1e is a sidegrade to the Havi's, while the ED9 is said to be a straight downgrade.


----------



## Beatwolf

So which of the cheaper KZ IEM's should I go for for a not-very-picky girlfriend?


----------



## martino416

beatwolf said:


> So which of the cheaper KZ IEM's should I go for for a not-very-picky girlfriend?


 

 ED9 or ATE. I just got my ED9 in and they sound really really good for $12. Nice thing about the ed9 are the filters that come with it , so she can choose if she likes a more fun and bassy sound or more neutral.


----------



## gtrx333

Ordered the kz ed10, when are these other new kz earphones meant to come out?


----------



## theuprising

gtrx333 said:


> Ordered the kz ed10, when are these other new kz earphones meant to come out?


 
 I can't find anyplace to buy these, are they supposed to be better than the ed9?


----------



## Beatwolf

martino416 said:


> ED9 or ATE. I just got my ED9 in and they sound really really good for $12. Nice thing about the ed9 are the filters that come with it , so she can choose if she likes a more fun and bassy sound or more neutral.


 
 Thanks a lot, I will try the ED9, do you have a link to a reputable seller?


----------



## gtrx333

theuprising said:


> I can't find anyplace to buy these, are they supposed to be better than the ed9?


 
 I think the ED9 is still meant to sound better, but I impulse bought them because they look good. I ordered them from taobao and am planning to get them forwarded by yoybuy forwarding service. They cost 78 yuan (inc shipping within china) + whatever international shipping will cost. 
  
 I went for the "wheat edition" over the standard one, whatever that means.....


----------



## EISENbricher

gtrx333 said:


> I think the ED9 is still meant to sound better, but I impulse bought them because they look good. I ordered them from taobao and am planning to get them forwarded by yoybuy forwarding service. They cost 78 yuan (inc shipping within china) + whatever international shipping will cost.
> 
> I went for the "wheat edition" over the standard one, whatever that means.....



Mic edition of course


----------



## Ruben123

So I took a look closer at the ED9s. Looks like the gold filters are not as long as each other. Gold filters dont sound that bad but they are not my preferred sound signature, I bought them for their neutral sound with brass filters. Cant help it, but even with low volume I get ringing ears and headaches from them. They sound like they are not sealed a smallest bit: that tiny, harsh and hollow.
 I could not hear lower notes in the spectrum in symphony music, only higher string's notes, just as with a bad seal. Havi B3p1 sound much fuller in comparison and Monoprice 8320 are bashead-like compared to ED9 brass! Basshead, the MP8320. That few bass has my ED9 brass. Almost zero. Could anyone test that, listening to for example a symphony of Beethoven? Theyre unlistenable for sure.
 Gold filters are dark and have rolled off treble but at least I dont get headaches from them.
  
 If anyone here is able to help me, that would be great. Maybe only the brass filters are broken.


----------



## theuprising

ruben123 said:


> So I took a look closer at the ED9s. Looks like the gold filters are not as long as each other. Gold filters dont sound that bad but they are not my preferred sound signature, I bought them for their neutral sound with brass filters. Cant help it, but even with low volume I get ringing ears and headaches from them. They sound like they are not sealed a smallest bit: that tiny, harsh and hollow.
> I could not hear lower notes in the spectrum in symphony music, only higher string's notes, just as with a bad seal. Havi B3p1 sound much fuller in comparison and Monoprice 8320 are bashead-like compared to ED9 brass! Basshead, the MP8320. That few bass has my ED9 brass. Almost zero. Could anyone test that, listening to for example a symphony of Beethoven? Theyre unlistenable for sure.
> Gold filters are dark and have rolled off treble but at least I dont get headaches from them.
> 
> If anyone here is able to help me, that would be great. Maybe only the brass filters are broken.


 
 Hmm you make me want to cancel my ed9 order. What do you use to drive them? Though they should be more efficient than the Havi's


----------



## Ruben123

Sansa Clip+ and Samsung i9000


----------



## gtrx333

eisenbricher said:


> Mic edition of course


 
 Oh of course lol. Well more value for my money then.


----------



## Currawong

I had a couple of requests to look at the discussion in this thread, so I did, and removed 26 posts which were either off-topic or unwanted arguments.
  
 Some important things to note when writing impressions: *It is critically important to state what music you listen to and how loud you listen.* This, _in my experience_ makes all the difference between how one feels about a pair of IEMs or headphones. If one of you listens quietly to classical music, for example, you'd probably feel completely different to someone who listens to club music at a loud volume. Though this is obvious when you think about it, people regularly don't even consider it. Different types of music have their own frequency response (how much bass, how much mid-range, how much treble) and our ears are known to be sensitive to these things to different degrees at different volumes (google "equal loudness contour curves").
  
 Also, if you are having different impressions of the bass, you might want to state what you are plugging them in to. Though maybe less so with recent gear (smartphones or amps) for various reasons some equipment will alter the FR of some headphones.
  
 Lastly: Please discuss the product, and not people. Discussing people is how things went south to begin with.


----------



## anticute

As a KZ fan, it's great to see the thread unlocked again. Let's try to keep it that way 
  
 Has anyone found the ed10 on some place that ships to Europe (i.e. not taobao) for a decent price?


----------



## CoiL

Don`t know what is decent price for someone but most KZ IEM`s are around that pricing when launched:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html


----------



## EISENbricher

For every KZ IEM $10 has been a golden number. While they launch at MRP price, almost all the times we are able to grab some deal at $10. Happened with ED9, also with ATE recently.
  
 ED10 at low price should be available on Ali within two weeks.


----------



## Shawn71

Looks like my ED9 shipped exactly after a week long wait.....


----------



## TwinACStacks

I see they unlocked this thread. The only trouble I have with shipping is once it hits the U.S. I'm Waiting for my replacement Clear ATE's as we speak. First they come into Chicago then it's 2 days sorting. Then they ship it for mailing to ANOTHER Chicago Post office, another Day. It arrives in Detroit and sits for 2 Days. NOW KEEP in mind My Local post office is less than 20 miles away in Warren Mi. It should take about 45 mins absolute TOPS to get it to my post office. It left Detroit at 3:38 A.M 6/17. Plenty of time to get it sorted on the truck and delivered YESTERDAY 17th. NO DELIVERY......
  
 WHY you ask? Because they decided to ship it to GRAND RAPIDS First, 200 Miles away to the west. It doesn't look like they will get it here for delivery today because it took them over 15 Hrs. to ship it to Grand Rapids which, BTW, is a 3 1/2 hour trip from Detroit. And then they wonder why the Postal service is in trouble.
  
 What a Bunch of F**kbubbles. No offense to any of you who work for our nation's postal system but, YOU BLOW.
  
 Rant Over. I feel better now.
  








 TWIN


----------



## aspire5550

Hey guys, I tried changing the tips of my ed9 to xiaomi middle tips. This is because the seal is not as good, I can hear people talking around me clearly.On top of that,the earphone tend to fall out of my ear quite often.
  
 When I removed the tips, I saw that there was some green oxidation on my brass nozzles. Only the part covered by the tips were oxidized. The part exposed, near the housing is fine.

 Anyone else facing the same thing?.


----------



## RedTwilight

So my ed9s have finally been accepted by china post today. After ordering on the 28th may. I hope they arrive within the protection window..


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> I see they unlocked this thread. The only trouble I have with shipping is once it hits the U.S. I'm Waiting for my replacement Clear ATE's as we speak. First they come into Chicago then it's 2 days sorting. Then they ship it for mailing to ANOTHER Chicago Post office, another Day. It arrives in Detroit and sits for 2 Days. NOW KEEP in mind My Local post office is less than 20 miles away in Warren Mi. It should take about 45 mins absolute TOPS to get it to my post office. It left Detroit at 3:38 A.M 6/17. Plenty of time to get it sorted on the truck and delivered YESTERDAY 17th. NO DELIVERY......
> 
> WHY you ask? Because they decided to ship it to GRAND RAPIDS First, 200 Miles away to the west. It doesn't look like they will get it here for delivery today because it took them over 15 Hrs. to ship it to Grand Rapids which, BTW, is a 3 1/2 hour trip from Detroit. And then they wonder why the Postal service is in trouble.
> 
> ...




Still faster than Canada's system. When stuff i order arrives in Mississauga, it sits there for a few days to a week. London is two hours away following the speed limit (and who does that? No one). To really put it into perspective, my Edse made it from China to Mississauga faster than they made from Mississauga to London.


----------



## Selenium

I ordered the ATE. I hope it's good but if not maybe I'll donate it to a guy at work.


----------



## EISENbricher

aspire5550 said:


> Hey guys, I tried changing the tips of my ed9 to xiaomi middle tips. This is because the seal is not as good, I can hear people talking around me clearly.On top of that,the earphone tend to fall out of my ear quite often.
> 
> When I removed the tips, I saw that there was some green oxidation on my brass nozzles. Only the part covered by the tips were oxidized. The part exposed, near the housing is fine. Also keeping a silica gel pack in earphone bag would help.
> 
> ...




Yep, this is an issue with brass nozzle of ED9. Same I've seen on ED8m's nozzle too. There's a lot of green deposit on nozzles. Especially because I live in humid climate. 

Don't worry though it's because of natural corrosion of brass. Since they didn't coat it, it's bound to corrode sooner or later. 

As a preventive measure you may wipe the nozzle clean and spray it with anti rust spray from outside. Take super care of inside and grills though. Spray otherwise will mess up sound.


----------



## CoiL

I took my ED9 brass nozzle grills off so I could clean them easily with kitchen chemistry (baking soda + vinegar, like I clean my tubes pins). No changes in sound (with foam mod).


----------



## leobigfield

b9scrambler said:


> Still faster than Canada's system. When stuff i order arrives in Mississauga, it sits there for a few days to a week. London is two hours away following the speed limit (and who does that? No one). To really put it into perspective, my Edse made it from China to Mississauga faster than they made from Mississauga to London.


 
 You guys don't know what a bad shipping service is. Here in Brazil packages aways takes more time traveling from the customs to our houses than from china to Brazil! Sometimes it take a full 3 months to receive a package from Aliexpress


----------



## B9Scrambler

leobigfield said:


> You guys don't know what a bad shipping service is. Here in Brazil packages aways takes more time traveling from the customs to our houses than from china to Brazil! Sometimes it take a full 3 months to receive a package from Aliexpress :mad:




That's insane. I feel for you man.


----------



## martino416

Looking at the last pic it seems like inside the filter there is a little piece of metal sticking out , take a pencil and push that little piece so that it sits on the inner wall of the filter and not outward. The headphones will no longer sound hollow. Happened to me too.
 Quote:


ruben123 said:


> Yeah they must be broken. It's unbelievable. Will check the connections in a few minutes, they were almost as power hungry as the Havis so that may explain something...
> 
> EDIT
> Link store: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-Headphone/32339469493.html


----------



## TwinACStacks

Well now! After an extensive listen session last night I have a firm handle on my personal Preferences of KZ phones that I Own, so Far:
  
 #1 ANV
 #2 ATE
 #3 ED9
 #4 CM9
 #5 EDSE
 #6 ED8 (Which I gave to my Daughter)
  
 I can't find a Fault at all with the sound of the ANV it's just beautiful.  I Use the Medium Small-Bore Black Rubber Bullet-shaped Tip that comes with a Few of the KZ's. I favor the 2 warmest phones as they don't fatigue you after a couple hours. The only Fault I can find is maybe they aren't quite the comfort level of the smaller KZs as they are larger and apparently made of a heavier ceramic material. Oh and I'm not crazy about the lower section of the wire being side by side as well.
  
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## RedTwilight

twinacstacks said:


> Well now! After an extensive listen session last night I have a firm handle on my personal Preferences of KZ phones that I Own, so Far:
> 
> #1 ANV
> #2 ATE
> ...


 
  
 ANV ranks above ATE and ED9 to you?? Wow I thought the ATE was pretty good already. Still waiting on the ED9..


----------



## TwinACStacks

You may disagree you really have to hear any earphone for yourself. The ANV just pushes all the right buttons for my tastes. It is Precise, I disagree with Wokei, I think it is just as detailed as the Havi. The Bass is exceptional. It is Fast Tight and not overbearing but is available in a HUGE amount when needed, especially noticable with Trance Music. I am really of the mind that the Specs on this 'phone are vastly underrated on the bass. It says 5 hz. I'm thinking it goes substantially lower. What leads me to believe this is the way it reacts to the Bass Boost on my Fiio E12. Any other Phone I have or have had is Greatly affected by the Boost and is radically apparent. Not so with the ANV, it enhances the bass, yes---but to nowhere the degree it does with other phones. Maybe the 14MM diameter Diaphram, (which is HUGE in earphone terms), is responsible? I don't really know.
  
 I just know I like them.
  
 JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'm with Twin on the ANV. Such a good earphone. I've kinda gotten over the initial ED9 honeymoon phase and find the treble too alike that on the EDse, which is not to my tastes. I rank the ANV, ATE, and Micro Ring as my top three, out of the KZ iems that I have; ATE, Micro Ring, ED9, EDse, ED3, and R3 (those are in no particular order BTW).


----------



## tsetse7

b9scrambler said:


> I'm with Twin on the ANV. Such a good earphone. I've kinda gotten over the initial ED9 honeymoon phase and find the treble too alike that on the EDse, which is not to my tastes. I rank the ANV, ATE, and Micro Ring as my top three, out of the KZ iems that I have; ATE, Micro Ring, ED9, EDse, ED3, and R3 (those are in no particular order BTW).


 
 I wonder how much consistent the QC are, coz I just received my translucent ATE and they sound pretty dull compared to my EDSE. I have the "wheat" version of the ATE... ie with mic.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Even compared to ED3, the ATE is dull and bass is Meh. Really everything sound veiled and I put the EDSE tips, comply tips, still sounds dull. If I remember correctly, all the EDSE I bought.  (3 pairs) all sounded the same, no burning in required. 
 Out of the box, the ATE i received are not better that stuff u buy on the street. Problem is that left and right sounds dull, it this were a QC problem on one of the drivers or something... I am using X2 xDuoo Dap and they normally sounds quite nice, with ATE I feel I am just listening to FM radio bandwidth..


----------



## Ruben123

Seems to be you are right. Was putting some foam in them which made the brass sound like the gold, so got the foam out of the brass and ????? The sound changed completely. At least I hear some bass! (Without foam)


----------



## Suneth

tsetse7 said:


> I wonder how much consistent the QC are, coz I just received my translucent ATE and they sound pretty dull compared to my EDSE. I have the "wheat" version of the ATE... ie with mic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Must be a defective unit. ATE sounds pretty good to me.


----------



## CoiL

Haven`t still received my translucent black version of ATE but it might be different sounding than silver one. One guy from my country local forum had really bright and sibilance highs by his words with black version. Sounds nothing like my silver ATE was
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And another guy said his unit is good, with littlebit smoothed highs.


----------



## Horton

I find a frequency response of ed9 with the 2 nozzles, is the sound heared in mind like this? Could guess the two color curves represent which nozzles?


----------



## EISENbricher

horton said:


> I find a frequency response of ed9 with the 2 nozzles , is the sound heared in mind like this ?



Hi, which line is which filter?

From my perspective light green looks like brass filter and green is of gold filter.


----------



## anticute

Damn it, guys, so ANV is awesome too? Oh well, guess I have to find out, there goes another couple of dollars..


----------



## sodesuka

horton said:


> I find a frequency response of ed9 with the 2 nozzles, is the sound heared in mind like this? Could guess the two color curves represent which nozzles?


 
 You're KZ MOT? So when are we gonna be able to buy ED10 without the marked-up price?


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Haven`t still received my translucent black version of ATE but it might be different sounding than silver one. One guy from my country local forum had really bright and sibilance highs by his words with black version. Sounds nothing like my silver ATE was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 If there is a difference I would believe it's caused by the difference in materials in the Plastic Shells. I would think the Clear shells would be harder material. Just guessing on this one Coil.
 I will let you know if I get mine before you do. Mine is tied up in transit between different points in the State which I live.... Dumbas*es
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

I found my ATE to be like the AN16; lacking subbass, relaxed but detailed treble, warm, slightly forward vocals that work best with women's voices. They're both the type of iem that you can use all day without experiencing fatigue, in my experience.


----------



## knives

b9scrambler said:


> I found my ATE to be like the AN16; lacking subbass, relaxed but detailed treble, warm, slightly forward vocals that work best with women's voices. They're both the type of iem that you can use all day without experiencing fatigue, in my experience.


 
 Do you think that ATE is as good or better than AN16?


----------



## Grayson73

gtrx333 said:


> I think the ED9 is still meant to sound better, but I impulse bought them because they look good. I ordered them from taobao and am planning to get them forwarded by yoybuy forwarding service. They cost 78 yuan (inc shipping within china) + whatever international shipping will cost.
> 
> I went for the "wheat edition" over the standard one, whatever that means.....


 
 Do you like Tenore more than ATE and ED9?


----------



## gtrx333

grayson73 said:


> Do you like Tenore more than ATE and ED9?


 
 My preferred sound signature is probably more towards a brighter and more detailed sound so out of those 3 my most preferred would prob be the ED9, then the Carbo tenore and then the ATE.


----------



## B9Scrambler

knives said:


> Do you think that ATE is as good or better than AN16?




I'm sure the AN16 is probably the 'better' of the two, but I prefer the ATE. It has a touch more treble emphasis than the AN16, and slightly deeped bass. The AN16 is too laid back and relaxed for my preferences. I generally lean towards bright and bassy, hence my love of JVC phones and the Titan 1. However, stuff like the ATE definitely still has a place in my listening portfolio.


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> I can't find a Fault at all with the sound of the ANV it's just beautiful. The only Fault I can find is maybe* they aren't quite the comfort level of the smaller KZs as they are larger and apparently made of a heavier ceramic material. *


 
 What are You talking about?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are ultra-comfortable, perfect size and lightest IEM I`ve ever had! 
  


Spoiler: Warning: KZ hardcore Pr0n!



 

  







  
 Btw, I tested many things and so far only way to boost littlebit ANV sub-bass is to cover breathing holes on black plastic... BUT... it can cause damage to drivers when inserting tips into ears because air doesn`t escape from chamber and membrane gets "squeezed" backwards. If done gently then ok but I already got one "click" and right channel sounded weird. Had to do some same moves that membrane got back to its own shape again. I have some other ideas how to get that little sub-bass boost but need to experiment more.
 I will probably also do nozzle-change mod (for using ED9 nozzles) because for my ears ANV nozzle is littlebit short.
 Fun fun fun...


----------



## B9Scrambler

That looks fantastic CoiL. Great job man!


----------



## B9Scrambler

For those who rare few that have been itching to get the Micro Ring, this is the lowest price I've seen them at for a while now; 16 USD. Seller has good feedback so it might be worth the pick up.
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html?spm=2114.32010308.4.2.elsa0a


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> For those who rare few that have been itching to get the Micro Ring, this is the lowest price I've seen them at for a while now; 16 USD. Seller has good feedback so it might be worth the pick up.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html?spm=2114.32010308.4.2.elsa0a




How do they compare sound wise to ED9 and ATE?


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> How do they compare sound wise to ED9 and ATE?


 
  
 I personally like them more, but I'll definitely be in the minority here. They're pretty old and build quality isn't nearly as good as, well, pretty much anything else KZ offers, lol. They still offer up quality sound though; quick yet deep bass (more than ATE, but not as much as ED9 [gold]), warm and forward mids (similar to ATE), great soundstage, detailed treble (it lacks that sparkle the ED9 [gold or brass] has, and is more like ATE). They're right up there with the ANV as my fav KZ iems. 
  
 I more posted that link for those who mentioned they wanted a pair much, much earlier in the thread, in case they haven't bought them and were still interested. More of a "complete the collection" kinda thing.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> What are You talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 You were trying to Bait me. But alas..... You forgot I am a Master Baiter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Beautiful job Coil. What kind of wood is that and how do they sound in comparison with the original?
  








 TWIN


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> I personally like them more, but I'll definitely be in the minority here. They're pretty old and build quality isn't nearly as good as, well, pretty much anything else KZ offers, lol. They still offer up quality sound though; quick yet deep bass (more than ATE, but not as much as ED9 [gold]), warm and forward mids (similar to ATE), great soundstage, detailed treble (it lacks that sparkle the ED9 [gold or brass] has, and is more like ATE). They're right up there with the ANV as my fav KZ iems.
> 
> I more posted that link for those who mentioned they wanted a pair much, much earlier in the thread, in case they haven't bought them and were still interested. More of a "complete the collection" kinda thing.


 
 I dont know which one to get now,ED9,ATE or Micro ring.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> I dont know which one to get now,ED9,ATE or Micro ring.


 
  
 Go with the ED9. It really is a great iem. Cheaper too.


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> Probably ED9.


 
 I'm also scared because of the recent QC issues ,they take a month to arive.And I dont have a card,my friend has to buy them for me.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Now onto Twin's TWINS: I just received my 2nd Pair of ATEs, this time in Clear, today. So I took an hour or so to directly compare Both. Flashback to 2 weeks ago: I got the silvers listened to them and liked them immediately, rolled tips, and did a mod similar to Coil's by venting the Backs with some 3/32 and 1/16 Holes. I also removed the copper covers completely from the drivers, then sealed them back up permanently with Super Glue. I tried them with the backs off first then on several times and thought that I heard a difference so I went with the Mod.
  
 Today, I A/B'd them directly and was quite surprised by the results. 1. I really can hear very little if any difference between modded and un-modded and MUCH to my surprise, 2.  (as you may have guessed I'm a big proponent of Burn-in), I found that the Older pair with 180+ hours on them and the New ones OTB sound IDENTICAL. In THIS case, I am wrong concerning burn in. It does nothing to the ATEs.
  
 Believe me I have heard changes occuring from use in many 'Phones. Just not these. unfortunately I'm a creature of habit and I just KNOW that I won't be happy with the new pair until I put 200 Hours on them anyways.
  
 I'm off to the Races now boyeeee....
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Scrambler, Have you seen these Micro Rings? they are GK branded same as the ANV:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-dynamic-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating/1948329841.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Scrambler, Have you seen these Micro Rings? they are GK branded same as the ANV:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-dynamic-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating/1948329841.html
> 
> TWIN




The pics of the black ones are the original Micro Ring, from what I've gathered. I don't think they actually sell those any more. You would probably get the black version of the silver ones in the last pic.


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> What are You talking about?:blink: They are ultra-comfortable, perfect size and lightest IEM I`ve ever had!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow CoiL those those look AMAZING!! How'd you do it? Gah all this ANV talk..



twinacstacks said:


> You were trying to Bait me. But alas..... You forgot I am a Master Baiter. :tongue_smile:
> 
> Beautiful job Coil. What kind of wood is that and how do they sound in comparison with the original?
> 
> TWIN




Seems like he's mastered baiting you hurhur.


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> Beautiful job Coil. What kind of wood is that and how do they sound in comparison with the original?


 
 Mahogany. Compared to original, I think same. Maybe just a fraction more "open" due to the hole on wood backplates (just for experimenting). Soundstage/imaging seems also littlebit better but more likely it is just my psychoacoustic memory playing trick. Anyway, soundstage/imaging is very good on ANV.
 This is probably not yet finished design. If only ANV didn`t have little lack of sub-bass - it would be probably best KZ IEM for my taste, details and neutrality/balance through all spectrum is great. Objectively, I would still rate ANV best KZ regarding all SQ aspects. Subjectively, ED9 (brass+foam) still my personal favourite... till I wood-mod my ATE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


twinacstacks said:


> they are GK branded same as the ANV:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-dynamic-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating/1948329841.html


 
 Seems like they have upgraded old micro-ring but driver is same, according to their "gibberish" description. Hmmm... maybe going to try out some day but not atm.
  
 I want my ATE ! Now -.- ! I`m hoping after modding it will be my "final" KZ IEM.


----------



## Suneth

b9scrambler said:


> For those who rare few that have been itching to get the Micro Ring, this is the lowest price I've seen them at for a while now; 16 USD. Seller has good feedback so it might be worth the pick up.
> 
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/2033397274.html?spm=2114.32010308.4.2.elsa0a


 

 May i ask what is the purpose of the micro ring?


----------



## CoiL

Those who wish to try, KZ ANV is selling for 9$ atm: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html


----------



## Ruben123

So it seems the filter was the problem, my ED9s now shine. They sound relatively dark with brass filters, just a tad more bassy than Havi B3 that makes Mozart's piano concertos really exciting (have a listen to the 20th!!!!!!!!). Still some peaks and dips in the frequency range but it's so much better than with the holes in the filters open, or whatever it caused them to sound bad.
  
 Value for money these are much better than Havis, almost same build quality, maybe 95% of its sound quality, 1/8th the price (bought ED9 for $6, Havi for $48).
  
 Yes I like them now. Tad too few lower mids, tad too much upper mids... but all just tads. Now reading about ANV, micro ring, ANV... doesnt really make me buy them. By trying them one could also buy a more expensive one instead, so I keep it with ED9 for now.


----------



## CoiL

> They sound relatively *dark* with brass filters


 
 I think You are misusing audio describing terms.
  


> *Dark* - A tonal balance that tilts downwards with increasing frequency. Opposite of bright. Weak high frequencies.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## B9Scrambler

suneth said:


> May i ask what is the purpose of the micro ring?




Well....most people would probably use it for listening to music, podcasts or other like programs. It could also be used as a prop microphone for an action figure.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> I think You are misusing audio describing terms.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary


 

 My bad  That's why I said relatively, they are darker than flat/neutral, but not bright or dark at all.


----------



## CoiL

Well, most ppl here think of ED9 rather as brighter sounding IEM than neutral. ANV is what I would call flat/neutral. 
 But of course... depends on gear being used, music, hearing, tips used, file format etc.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Those who wish to try, KZ ANV is selling for 9$ atm: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html




The description for those explains the difference between the 2013 and 2014 models. Would explain why my second pair sounds noticably better than my first pair.


----------



## satansmutt

I had the KZ ED9 but just didn't like the sound, I changed filters added and removed foam and generally messed around with them for hours but the treble was just too splashy and piercing at times, I didn't like the way vocals sounded on it and to be honest it wasn't even very comfortable to wear and a bit on the heavy side.
  
 But caught up in the spirit of adventure I have just raided Aliexpress and ordered the ATE and ANV along with the MOAL M850(dual driver) all for bargain prices and fingers crossed I can get along with them better than my ED9s


----------



## CoiL

Wait, what? There are two different versions? I bought from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-GK-ANV-Aluminium-Alloy-Professional-Noise-Cancelling-Dynamic-Balance-HiFi-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Stereo/32221572219.html#feedback
  
 Wonder what version I have? From description looks I bought 2014 version but not sure, hard to understand such text.


----------



## chavez

Soooo what should i get with just a bit stronger bass and mids and high on normal, not too big not too small? Im torn apart, damn you KZ :d


----------



## CoiL

Probably ATE but it`s rather large IEM and fit might be issue.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Wait, what? There are two different versions? I bought from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-GK-ANV-Aluminium-Alloy-Professional-Noise-Cancelling-Dynamic-Balance-HiFi-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Stereo/32221572219.html#feedback
> 
> Wonder what version I have? From description looks I bought 2014 version but not sure, hard to understand such text.




Some stores mention 2013 and some mention 2014. My first pair were the 2013 version picked up from the first "official KZ store" before they reworked. Can't recall where I got the second. There were noticeable sonic differences between the two: most obvious was that the new one had cleaner, more controlled treble. Felt like a they had a bit more sub-bass as well, but this I'm not 100% sure on. Pretty sure my second pair are a 2014 version.

Edit: reading the description I think you got the 2014 version.


----------



## chavez

coil said:


> Probably ATE but it`s rather large IEM and fit might be issue.


 
  
 And by the time I recieve ATE/ED9 it turns out ED10 is the best KZ IEM to date. xD


----------



## Ruben123

chavez said:


> And by the time I recieve ATE/ED9 it turns out ED10 is the best KZ IEM to date. xD


 

 It seems every time the newest KZ is the best but then it turns out that an older one is still a bit better... hard to look through the hype. Personally I think the KZs dont differ to much in sound quality, they do differ in their frequency responses though. So get a KZ that fits your likings, and be happy with it


----------



## chavez

ruben123 said:


> It seems every time the newest KZ is the best but then it turns out that an older one is still a bit better... hard to look through the hype. Personally I think the KZs dont differ to much in sound quality, they do differ in their frequency responses though. So get a KZ that fits your likings, and be happy with it


 
  
 I already own ED2, I want a new one!


----------



## Ruben123

chavez said:


> I already own ED2, I want a new one!


 

 Best way to buy a new KZ is: actually buying one you like, unsubscribing from this thread and never looking back. lol


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Those who wish to try, KZ ANV is selling for 9$ atm: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html


 






 OH SURE, now you tell me. I paid $9.29 for mine. I was robbed....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

I bought mine ~18$


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Wait, what? There are two different versions? I bought from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-GK-ANV-Aluminium-Alloy-Professional-Noise-Cancelling-Dynamic-Balance-HiFi-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Stereo/32221572219.html#feedback
> 
> Wonder what version I have? From description looks I bought 2014 version but not sure, hard to understand such text.


 





 I have the GK's  & they are *superb*, Basically Flat, with tack sharp resolution equaling the Havi's. They have an ENORMOUS Bass when called for, Like I said in a previous post I believe they are grossly under speced in their Bass Frequency limit.  BUT it doesn't get in the way, nor does it dominate the other frequencies. Does that make any sense at all? These are the first earphones I have had that almost give you that sub-bass slam you get in the chest from a Big Home Subwoofer.
  
 Clearly my Favs so Far. I got them from the Seller in the 1st Link Coil posted. The way I read it is they changed them in 2013 to the new version. Just like McDonalds: xxxxx Billions sold.....
  
 If you have any doubts, buy them to compare with the ones you have. I didn't know there were 2 Versions.
  








 TWIN


----------



## anticute

KZ really needs to get their descriptions and naming straight. The descriptions don't make any sense what so ever ("Super bowl augmented mids sound effect", what the..?), and if they've made improvements on an earphone, it should be in their best interest to be clear about this in the naming, i.e. ANV v.2 or something..  
  
 Anyway, I hope the ANV I ordered is the new version, at least it had that same description that mentioned 2013 and 2014 in it, the rest of it didn't make too much sense..


----------



## TwinACStacks

I think their Google Translator needs a software update. Of course then again, they are trying to reduce a 1000+ characters in their language to the 26 in English.
  
 I believe they just need to use the extra words or there will be a meltdown somewhere....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

twinacstacks said:


> I have the GK's  & they are *superb*, Basically Flat, with tack sharp resolution equaling the Havi's. They have an ENORMOUS Bass when called for, Like I said in a previous post I believe they are grossly under speced in their Bass Frequency limit.  BUT it doesn't get in the way, nor does it dominate the other frequencies. Does that make any sense at all? These are the first earphones I have had that almost give you that sub-bass slam you get in the chest from a Big Home Subwoofer.
> 
> Clearly my Favs so Far. I got them from the Seller in the 1st Link Coil posted. The way I read it is they changed them in 2013 to the new version. Just like McDonalds: xxxxx Billions sold.....
> 
> ...


 

 Do you still own the Havis for an A/B?


----------



## satansmutt

They have all the correct words just not necessarily in the right order lol
  
 It's just as well the descriptions don't make any sense or I would just order more eaphones


----------



## lesp4ul

b9scrambler said:


> I found my ATE to be like the AN16; lacking subbass, relaxed but detailed treble, warm, slightly forward vocals that work best with women's voices. They're both the type of iem that you can use all day without experiencing fatigue, in my experience.




I have both AN16 and ATE, also Soundsoul S-018. ATE is brighter, less bass than AN16. vocals on ATE can be harsh sometimes. But soundstage on ATE is better, the problem is on nozzle size, i use small foam tips which are best for me. AN16 sub bass is definitely there, the definition of mid bass also very good, better than soundsoul s-018. Put a sony hybrid or ortofon tips and you're good to go. I use an16 more often because it fits me better.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> It seems every time the *newest KZ is the best* but then it turns out that an older one is still a bit better... hard to look through the hype. Personally I think the *KZs dont differ to much in sound quality*, they do differ in their frequency responses though. So get a KZ that fits your likings, and be happy with it


 
  
 Completely agree! I find that they usually improve on key aspects with each release (cleaner treble on ED9 vs. EDse for example) which lends to the 'newer is better' belief. Out of the seven KZs I own, I think they all offer their own unique sound signature with the exception of the EDse and ED9. Those two sound remarkably similar, but I feel the ED9 is an improvement all-around. While sound quality overall is pretty consistent between the KZs I own, some stand out for sure like the ANV, Micro Ring, and ATE. They also offer completely different signatures which I love.
  
 On another note, I ordered another CM9. Fourth try is a charm? Heh.......


----------



## B9Scrambler

lesp4ul said:


> I have both AN16 and ATE, also Soundsoul S-018. ATE is brighter, less bass than AN16. vocals on ATE can be harsh sometimes. But soundstage on ATE is better, the problem is on nozzle size, i use small foam tips which are best for me. AN16 sub bass is definitely there, the definition of mid bass also very good, better than soundsoul s-018. Put a sony hybrid or ortofon tips and you're good to go. I use an16 more often because it fits me better.


 
  
 The nozzle on the ATE is a pain for sure. I ended up sanding the nozzle to rough it up so I could try a bunch of different tips. Most of them would just slip off over time since they tapered the lip that's supposed to hold the tips on...weird design choice. I run with Sony Hybrids on my AN16, but I still feel they're lacking in sub-bass. I haven't run into harsh vocals on the ATE yet. They always sound smooth and silky, just like the AN16. I do listen at pretty low volumes though, so that might be why.
  
 That I mind, I really like LOTS of sub-bass rumble...not as keen on mid-bass, usually. Out of all the KZ's I have, I find the best sub-bass comes from the ANV and R3 (these are insane with the mushroom shaped UE foam tips). The ATE and ED3 are the most underwhelming, however the ED3 offers up surprisingly quick and punchy bass with the right tips. The EDse, ED9 (gold), Micro Ring sit somewhere in between.


----------



## TwinACStacks

ruben123 said:


> Do you still own the Havis for an A/B?


 





 No I sold them. They didn't live up to the Hype. Yeah, they were fairly clear and Flat EQ'd, but there are other 'phones with far bigger soundstages and listening excitement. My over all impression of the Havi's was and still is *MEH.*
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Completely agree! I find that they usually improve on key aspects with each release (cleaner treble on ED9 vs. EDse for example) which lends to the 'newer is better' belief. Out of the seven KZs I own, I think they all offer their own unique sound signature with the exception of the EDse and ED9. Those two sound remarkably similar, but I feel the ED9 is an improvement all-around. While sound quality overall is pretty consistent between the KZs I own, some stand out for sure like the ANV, Micro Ring, and ATE. They also offer completely different signatures which I love.
> 
> On another note, I ordered another CM9. Fourth try is a charm? Heh.......


 





 I Like the CM9. It's a FUN earphone. It's like a smaller version of the ANV without the resolution and TONS of out of control Bass. It can get a little Muddy and bleed over into the mids, but there is a lot going on with this Phone. It strikes me a lot in it's physical resemblence to the DuNu Titan. Maybe it needs the venting in the Diaphram Housing?
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, what? There are two different versions? I bought from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-GK-ANV-Aluminium-Alloy-Professional-Noise-Cancelling-Dynamic-Balance-HiFi-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Stereo/32221572219.html#feedback
> ...


 
 So, You have older 2013 version?


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> So, You have older 2013 version?


 





 I really don't know. They are very good whatever version they are. I'm going to say they are the newer version as they are extremely precise and defined. How do you tell? Both the links posted as well as every other seller on Ali list both the same Gibberish 2013-2014 stuff?
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## gtrx333

Is there a comprehensive list of the different kz iems and their signatures? If not can one be compiled?


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> I Like the CM9. It's a FUN earphone. It's like a smaller version of the ANV without the resolution and TONS of out of control Bass. It can get a little Muddy and bleed over into the mids, but there is a lot going on with this Phone. It strikes me a lot in it's physical resemblence to the DuNu Titan. Maybe it needs the venting in the Diaphram Housing?
> 
> TWIN




I've been trying to get a pair for a while now. 1st pair arrived with one channel kaput. 2nd pair was mailed to the united states instead of Canada....3rd try they ran out and sent me the ED3 instead. Since the KZ store goofed on my ATE order (sent 4 pairs sans mic vs. 4 with mics) I ordered a CM9 and they going to send a bunch of their new carrying cases as compensation for the mistake.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Here is what I am deciphering out of the ANV description.
  
The new facelift 2013 ANV for sound style positioning is different. ANV positioning down to pop and rock style, with sensual vocals and the overall balance of highlights.  
  
 Are they are referring to the newer Model as pointing downward for Rock and Pop?  I take this as meaning the cabling. Is it possible the original pre 2013 was over ear Cable, and the newer post 2013 the Down Cable we see now?
  








 TWIN


----------



## SWLIU

twinacstacks said:


> Here is what I am deciphering out of the ANV description.
> 
> The new facelift 2013 ANV for sound style positioning is different. ANV positioning down to pop and rock style, with sensual vocals and the overall balance of highlights.
> 
> ...




I am a native mandarin speaker and I went to the official KZ ANV webpage and tried to figure out what is going on with the translation. It specifically mentions the cables are the same between 2013 and 2014 versions. "Positioning down to" should be translated as "tuned to".


----------



## CoiL

Twin, we must have different ANV (whichever version we have) because Your sound impressions of ANV sub-bass part don`t apply to my ANV.
 My ANV has very good resolution and details across whole FR except sub-bass just isn`t there with sub-bassy music or instruments.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Twin, we must have different ANV (whichever version we have) because Your sound impressions of ANV sub-bass part don`t apply to my ANV.
> My ANV has very good resolution and details across whole FR except sub-bass just isn`t there with sub-bassy music or instruments.




You probably have the original. My first pair was more like the ED3; all hi-res treble and mids with a lack of subbass. Second pair of ANV keeps all that, smooths out the highs, and adds tons of sub-bass when called for.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Coil,  I have to agree with Scrambler on this. You must have the original and Both of us have the New one. There is a HUGE amount of the Best bass, Mid bass and Sub bass that I have heard on an earphone to Date. It is articulate, FAST,( I listened to Sultan's of Swing effortlessly), and doesn't bleed into or overpower the other frequencies. Plus the resolution is second to none. I'm hearing things in familiar recordings I didn't know were there.
  
 These are 'phones you can listen to for extended periods with multiple Genres' of Music. They EXCEL at EDM and TRANCE.
  
 JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Scrambler, You noticed that too? HOW do they get MASSIVE Bass when called for, yet it doesn't overpower any of the other Frequencies? Just more proof to me that the Bass specs are way underrated. I bet if you ran a Frequency generator through this you could get 2Hz out of them. I mean Some EDM and Trance Frequencies are insanely low and the ANVs don't even blink with them, even at High Volume with a 6 dB Bass boost engaged on my Fiio E12. This kind of stuff will make the ED9 get a little muddy even.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

*HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!!!*
  








 TWIN


----------



## gtrx333

Found this post on the KZ weibo page, possibly referring to their next model?
  
"Later we will do the headset, the headset will be different from the market for all. It built a TI amplifier IC, supports the multistage quality custom regulation, supports all phone calls, intelligent IC switching, intelligent voice reminder, intelligent volume control, OLED screen display."
  
This is what they say about the ED10
  
"ED10 will provide all of our traditional headphones drawing to a successful close, how to getstarted on how to stop. Is still 9.2MM, but using more modern materials and technology.Then we will fully transition to a smart field of HIFI, the current prototype is out, is arrangingSMT and mould stage, a headset if you can it is the future trend."


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Twin, we must have different ANV (whichever version we have) because Your sound impressions of ANV sub-bass part don`t apply to my ANV.
> ...


 
 M´kay, can You or Twin share a link where I can get the one You both have, for sure?
  
 And maybe a song/artist which You both find that ANV is great on sub-bass... just to make sure we are having different ANV.


----------



## tsetse7

I previously reported on disappointing sound from the KZ ATE I received, particularly a lack of bass, so I wondered if this was a problem of seal and tried different tips to no avail...
 Then I had a good look at the inner/outer construction... I found a vent on the nozzle. hmmm maybe this could be the problem.
 I then blocked the vents with some blue tak putty and had I listen. The bass is definitely MUCH better and the treble better too, seems that the vents were the culprit. As I said I received the translucent black ATE and could absolutely not relate to the good sound reported by previous reviews.
  
 If like me you have tiny vents and don't get bass out of ATE, try blocking vents, you will be amazed by the difference, they will sound like a different in-ear.
  
 A question to those with ATE translucent or not, do you also have the vents?


----------



## CoiL

My silver-ones had also port holes and as I reported some time ago, closing those vents will make bass/kick noticeably tighter/punchier and more present. While resulting littlebit dominant bass/kick, it is very engaging and enjoyable. I was really tapping my feet and nogging head while testing it along with grill mod. But I`m personally more into neutral (but slightly warmish) sound, so I opened those vents. 
 But I also recommend to try this easy mod with ATE, it really gives out amazing punch, especially good thing if Your DAC/Amp lacks it littlebit.


----------



## Maxima7

When did they ever release a different ANV besides there being a CKW Pro and possibly others that look similar to the ANV? As mentioned before, pretty much all the sellers say the same  2013-14 gibberish.


----------



## CoiL

Maybe some have older version stock and selling as newer ones? Who knows. 
 What I want is same ANV that B9S and Twin have, it would be probably best KZ IEM to me then if I get that sub-bass that my current ANV is lacking.


----------



## Maxima7

I'm about to get mine possibly tomorrow. It'd be interesting to see which Aliexpress sellers they bought from.
  


> What I want is same ANV that B9S and Twin have, it would be probably best KZ IEM to me then if I get that sub-bass that my current ANV is lacking.


 
 From the description, you should have gotten the improved version....


----------



## hoshiyomi

Even though I've yet to receive any Kzs, let me chime in on the vents. Vents in front of the driver has 2 purposes, one is to relief pressures when inserted as to avoid driver flex (especially important for dynamic drivers), two it acts as a low shelf eq cut, and the bigger then vent the more overall bass cut. This is assuming the vent lies between the driver and any acoustic filters, and if the vent is introduced after and filtering, you also get a degree of midbass deduction. This vent sometimes also reduces hi freq peaks, so tune it with pin holes but I'd not seal it completely.

Vents behind the driver tend to modify the amount of bass along with the volume of the chamber behind the driver. When there's significant volume there is a increase in bass, and bass can be reduced by filling the chamber to increase compliance. The smaller the volume behind the driver, the more significant vents have an effect of bass. Judging from photos ATE has a large volume here, so additional porting doesn't do much, but if I were to mod it I'd try some damping material there, while ED9 is fully open, which is like inear Grados so to say.

I really need to get them before I can comment further, they are taking a long time in the mail....


----------



## Maxima7

b9scrambler said:


> Some stores mention 2013 and some mention 2014. My first pair were the 2013 version picked up from the first "official KZ store" before they reworked. Can't recall where I got the second. There were noticeable sonic differences between the two: most obvious was that the new one had cleaner, more controlled treble. Felt like a they had a bit more sub-bass as well, but this I'm not 100% sure on. Pretty sure my second pair are a 2014 version.
> 
> Edit: reading the description I think you got the 2014 version.


 

 There is no 2014 version. It's pre 2013 and 2013-14. At least that's what I get from the descriptions. And virtually all sellers act as if you're receiving the improved model.  If they did in fact release a new one in 2014, how are we so clueless on the models already?


----------



## CoiL

hoshiyomi said:


> Judging from photos ATE has a large volume here, so additional porting doesn't do much


 
 In my experience with modding ATE, making them open or big port hole enough above driver makes them better by losing "hollowness" caused by plastic chamber and increasing clarity/detail littlebit.


> Vents in front of the driver has 2 purposes, one is to relief pressures when inserted as to avoid driver flex (especially important for dynamic drivers)


 
 In case of ATE, closing them fully doesn`t seem to damage or cause problems since driver itself is shelled and with pretty tiny opening. The driver itself is also pretty small. 
  
 In case of ANV I don`t recommend to close ports. While sound might improve littlebit, driver is too large (14mm, enormous compared to ATE) to withstand that pressure caused to membrane by inserting them into ear and it can damage driver.


----------



## Maxima7

Btw, those ANV descriptions sometimes mention the KZ CKW pro. I think that's probably the pre-2013 version of the ATH-CKW1000ANV.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> M´kay, can You or Twin share a link where I can get the one You both have, for sure?
> 
> And maybe a song/artist which You both find that ANV is great on sub-bass... just to make sure we are having different ANV.


 






 Coil, THIS is the link and *the same Seller* I bought mine from:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## Maxima7

twinacstacks said:


> Coil, THIS is the link and Seller I bought mine from:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html
> 
> ...


 

 That's the same seller I bought from. They have three different listings to the ANV. One at discount from $27, $45, and $70ish. I got mine for $8.10, and it could have been slightly less if I used the mobile app. Hopefully mine is also the improved version.


----------



## anticute

twinacstacks said:


> Coil, THIS is the link and *the same Seller* I bought mine from:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html
> 
> ...


 
 Yay, that was the one I ordered mine from!  
  
 $8.55 from mobile app, not too bad. Hope they get here soon!


----------



## CoiL

Thanks Twin, will get another pair to mod. I really do hope they have that sub-bass and are different from the ones I have already... if not, then we must be hearing things differently.


----------



## Maxima7

I recently sent a message to that seller to ask if his three listings of the ANV are the same exact product.


----------



## CoiL

Ok. Keep us updated. Thanks!


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Thanks Twin, will get another pair to mod. I really do hope they have that sub-bass and are different from the ones I have already... if not, then we must be hearing things differently.


 





 I would say that was a possibility IF it was just You and I hearing things differently, But we also have Hisoundfi and B9scrambler also hearing huge Bass.
  
 I have a hunch these things are built/assembled at WAY more than one location, maybe it's also a matter of who and where assembly/ Fit????
  
 The ones with high lead content always sound "Heavier" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## Maxima7

OKay, just got a reply back from the store. XD They say they only sell one version of ANV.
  
 "Dear we are the KZ factory ! but we do not have 2 vestions !! we only have this style !!
  

 "
  
 Edit: I think the seller is Wokei. XD


----------



## Suneth

tsetse7 said:


> I previously reported on disappointing sound from the KZ ATE I received, particularly a lack of bass, so I wondered if this was a problem of seal and tried different tips to no avail...
> Then I had a good look at the inner/outer construction... I found a vent on the nozzle. hmmm maybe this could be the problem.
> I then blocked the vents with some blue tak putty and had I listen. The bass is definitely MUCH better and the treble better too, seems that the vents were the culprit. As I said I received the translucent black ATE and could absolutely not relate to the good sound reported by previous reviews.
> 
> ...


 

 Could you post a picture on the said post? I don't have/can't find a vent on mine. (Black version)


----------



## tsetse7

suneth said:


> Could you post a picture on the said post? I don't have/can't find a vent on mine. (Black version)


 

  
 If you block the vent, you will probably get Driver flex... but I can live with that.


----------



## sodesuka

Alternatively you can seal it with micropore or something similar and poke a tiny hole with a needle. It usually still works well in adding bass and should help with driver flex.


----------



## CoiL

Another option would be changing port location and make it smaller  But in case of ATE I didn`t have any problems with driver flex closing that port.


----------



## tsetse7

Before blocking the vents, I actually removed the mesh coz I was desperate with the sound. Did not replace the mesh back after the vent mod. Next mod will probably open the back by drilling a relatively large hole with a drill bit. Hoping not to damage the driver. I am a fan of open back-everything... I don't like the cavity sound provided by closed back, be it in-ear, headphone or speakers.


----------



## Suneth

tsetse7 said:


> If you block the vent, you will probably get Driver flex... but I can live with that.


 

 oohhh now i see it on mine  it was so easy to overlook. I'm fine with the bass on my ATE without blocking the vent. Thank you


----------



## CoiL

tsetse7 said:


> ..by drilling a relatively large hole with a drill bit. Hoping not to damage the driver.


 
 Why You do it this way? Go backwards in thread and look how to open back covers. No need to risk damaging driver.
  
 Here ya go:
  


Spoiler: how to open ate






ilikeiem said:


> If anyone wanna open back covers of your ATE, here is how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


 And here is my grill-mod:
  


Spoiler: grill-mod






coil said:


> ...yes, I know, it doesn`t look nice but like I said previously, it was just fast fun mod to show what can be done (usually I don`t do things in crappy way like this).
> Does it still sound like without backplates?... hmmm... have spent too less time with it but seems so.
> 
> Have fun with modding!
> ...


----------



## Wokei

maxima7 said:


> OKay, just got a reply back from the store. XD They say they only sell one version of ANV.
> 
> "Dear we are the KZ factory ! but we do not have 2 vestions !! we only have this style !!
> 
> ...


 
  Yes ..only one version !


----------



## aaDee

Anyone has KZ LP3?? How do they sound??..They look fancy


----------



## Ruben123

wokei said:


> Yes ..only one version !




One version of Chinese pretty girls or... ? How can people hear such big sound differences in one single earphone?


----------



## tsetse7

coil said:


> Why You do it this way? Go backwards in thread and look how to open back covers. No need to risk damaging driver.
> 
> Here ya go:
> 
> ...


 
 great thks, i'll try that this evening... 
 on a sidenote, I was wearing the ATE in the office today and a female colleague asked another colleague if those ATE were earrings


----------



## ilikeiem

ruben123 said:


> One version of Chinese pretty girls or... ? How can people hear such big sound differences in one single earphone?


 
 She is not chinese. This is korean version.


----------



## Ruben123

ilikeiem said:


> She is not chinese. This is korean version.




Hot anyways


----------



## CoiL

Got my translucent black ATE today. Got to let them burn-in littlebit before sharing impressions. From what I`ve heard so far out of them, seems to sound same as silver ones (from memory). Will grill-mod them again for sure, this time with wood+golden grill+custom cable ;P
 Plastic molding is much better quality than silver but nozzle neck is still not sure what "gender" it is, lol.
  
 About ANV, I really think I need to do exchangeable nozzle mod too because I`m not sure I`m getting 100% proper fit - need longer nozzles. Want to try ED9 golden nozzles on them to boost littlebit sub-bass.
  
 Btw, added some walnut today to my wood-mod ANV, looks much nicer now imo:
  


Spoiler: KZ Pr0n!






  
 One thing I regret - leaving stock cable. It`s not bad but want something better.
 Unfortunately can`t change it anymore, permanent. Oh well... another reason to buy 2nd ANV


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Got my translucent black ATE today. Got to let them burn-in littlebit before sharing impressions. From what I`ve heard so far out of them, seems to sound same as silver ones (from memory). Will grill-mod them again for sure, this time with wood+golden grill+custom cable ;P
> Plastic molding is much better quality than silver but nozzle neck is still not sure what "gender" it is, lol.
> 
> About ANV, I really think I need to do exchangeable nozzle mod too because I`m not sure I`m getting 100% proper fit - need longer nozzles. Want to try ED9 golden nozzles on them to boost littlebit sub-bass.
> ...




With the ANV, try some large Sony silicone hybrid tips if you have any. For me at least, that allows them to perch right at the edge of my ear canal but still seal perfectly. With any other tip I lose out on that juicy sub-bass.

Edit: Your custom woodie ANVs look phenomenal! Wow!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

m.aliexpress.com/item/1988984408.html?productId=1988984408&productId=1988984408&productSubject=kz-anv-metal-headphone-ear-headphones-bass-headset-phone-headset-music-earphone-headset-HIFI&productSubject=kz-anv-metal-headphone-ear-headphones-bass-headset-phone-headset-music-earphone-headset-HIFI&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

I got my ANV there. No longer available though. :/


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Scrambler, You noticed that too? HOW do they get MASSIVE Bass when called for, yet it doesn't overpower any of the other Frequencies? Just more proof to me that the Bass specs are way underrated. I bet if you ran a Frequency generator through this you could get 2Hz out of them. I mean Some EDM and Trance Frequencies are insanely low and the ANVs don't even blink with them, even at High Volume with a 6 dB Bass boost engaged on my Fiio E12. This kind of stuff will make the ED9 get a little muddy even.
> 
> TWIN




I sure did. My first pair could not reproduce bass like this second pair. I wish I had a good amp to test them on, as I feel the extra juice would be really beneficial.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> With the ANV, try some large Sony silicone hybrid tips if you have any. For me at least, that allows them to perch right at the edge of my ear canal but still seal perfectly. With any other tip I lose out on that juicy sub-bass.


 
 Can`t use large ones, I have small earcanals. I`m already using ED9 grey medium ones (so far best fit with them) but I feel need it to go little deeper. Sony hybrids doesn`t help and some others also not so good. Only option left for me is nozzle-mod... and I want it anyway to play with nozzles 
  
 Edit: Wonder how RE bi-flanges work with ANV. Can someone can try? https://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=33#


----------



## chavez

On which of the two,ED9 and ATE,does this sound better?


----------



## CoiL

If You are sensitive to highs like I am and both IEMs in stock configuration, then I would say ATE. ED9 has brighter and littlebit "airier" signature, ATE smoother/warmer.
 Bass/drum hit littlebit harder on ED9 while ATE sounds more balanced/neutral.
  
 Btw, ordered some Triple-flange tips for ANV. Will report back about them.


----------



## jmwreck

I have tried the brass tips of the ED9, but I can't get a good sound out of it, it sounded so thin and lifeless, even though I have changed the tips from stock to comply. I went back to the gold tips and removed the grills and foam, now it became a lot better. 

D6503


----------



## CoiL

Did You check if tiny filter pieces are properly on place inside brass filters on breathing holes?


----------



## TwinACStacks

jmwreck said:


> I have tried the brass tips of the ED9, but I can't get a good sound out of it, it sounded so thin and lifeless, even though I have changed the tips from stock to comply. I went back to the gold tips and removed the grills and foam, now it became a lot better.
> 
> D6503


 
 Something is either wrong or you aren't getting a proper seal. The ED9 IS Bright BUT it is *anything* but thin. It has ample, (bordering on too much), Bass.
  
 Personally, I'm getting the Best sound from Auvio Medium Tips available from Radio Shack. These are similar to a Sony Hybrid only heavier / softer Material and a VERY Wide Bore. I tried the Larges but they were uncomfortable after a while with the deep insertion of the ED9's. Went down a size and all is well. Using the Brass nozzles.
  









 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

twinacstacks said:


> Something is either wrong or you aren't getting a proper seal. The ED9 IS Bright BUT it is *anything* but thin. It has ample, (bordering on too much), Bass.
> 
> TWIN




Must be the tiny holes in the filters, just like the problem I had.


----------



## Maxima7

Holy ****! The ANV is AWESOME!!! I'm going to get Sony hybrids for them. Good SQ. Feels like I don't have anything in my ears. Better isolation than expected. And outstanding build quality (though, can be deceiving if the drivers are prone to fail). ****, I only paid $8 for it and it came with one of those nice little black cases.


----------



## CoiL

You can wear them over-ear also if You open the case and turn to right needed angle. It opens up easily, it is glued with soft gooey reddish glue and it will stick nicely when put back together. 
 They ARE heavy though, which can cause issues to some. You should feel my woodie ANV - thats what I would call "nothing in my ears" ;D


----------



## sodesuka

ED10 for $13 from aliexpress! http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-original-KZ-ED10-in-ear-headphones-fever-wire-balance-HIFI-bass-for-mp3-mp4/32377244418.html


----------



## anticute

sodesuka said:


> ED10 for $13 from aliexpress! http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-original-KZ-ED10-in-ear-headphones-fever-wire-balance-HIFI-bass-for-mp3-mp4/32377244418.html


 
 I ordered my ED9 from that seller, and when it broke after a couple of days they refused to do anything about it. Basically, they said "buy another earphone, and we'll send you a working pair of the earphone you already bought". They straight out refused to discuss refund etc. I might have just had bad luck with this seller, but just a caution that if you receive a faulty item, you're probably screwed.


----------



## Ulti

sodesuka said:


> ED10 for $13 from aliexpress! http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-original-KZ-ED10-in-ear-headphones-fever-wire-balance-HIFI-bass-for-mp3-mp4/32377244418.html


 
 Nice find! So tempting at that price... 
  
 Already got the KZ ATE and pretty happy with it except for the cable. A bit too rubbery for my liking and the mic cable doesn't play with my phone well. Doesn't have an issue with my PC or DAC but randomly stops and starts playing music on my phone. 
  
 The reviews here of the ED9 really tempt me to buy it to replace my Xiaomi Pistons 2 but I want something with more isolation that is relatively small. These look bigger and their open back design looks like isolation will be worse. The sound signature sounds awesome though as I've always favoured brighter sound signatures over darker, boomy bass signatures. 
  
 I wonder what the ED10 will sound like. I can spare £9 for these but I don't want to end up with too many IEMs again! Especially budget ones as I have no idea what to do with them as the postage for reselling them ends up more than the IEM itself and I hate having things that I don't use lying around.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just rc'vd the HA-FX3X from my seller on Ali express. SURPRISE!! They are not copies they are the genuine JVC Article. Bad news is:  they are fairly MEH in tone. Not bad, not good, just a nondescript slightly veiled sound with a decent amount of Bass and a narrow soundstage. Maybe they will get better with Burn in.
  
  
*BETTER NEWS: * Just tried my EDSE with 200 Hours burn in on them. The last time I heard them was @40 Hours when I took them on an extended listen on my 10 Hour nightly delivery run to Cincinnati.
  
 WOW HAVE THEY CHANGED!!!!! The Bass is Tightened up, not the slightest bit muddy, and the Sibilance prominent in the treble and even extending to female Vocal Mids is GONE. They absolutely destroyed the FX3X I just got, so I just A/B'd them against the ED9's. I may prefer the SE Better. The bass has filled out nicely like I said earlier, they seem to be more controlled and detailed, and that spikey Treble is gone. I know they won't be as Fatiguing as the Brighter ED9 for long term Listening.
  
 I am PLEASANTLY Surprised to say the least.....
  
 So Far, (with the Exception of the ATE), all of the KZs have "Bloomed" with at least 200 Hours burn in on them.
  








 TWIN


----------



## sodesuka

anticute said:


> I ordered my ED9 from that seller, and when it broke after a couple of days they refused to do anything about it. Basically, they said "buy another earphone, and we'll send you a working pair of the earphone you already bought". They straight out refused to discuss refund etc. I might have just had bad luck with this seller, but just a caution that if you receive a faulty item, you're probably screwed.


 
 Damn that's disheartening. Thanks for telling us!
  


ulti said:


> Nice find! So tempting at that price...
> 
> Already got the KZ ATE and pretty happy with it except for the cable. A bit too rubbery for my liking and the mic cable doesn't play with my phone well. Doesn't have an issue with my PC or DAC but randomly stops and starts playing music on my phone.
> 
> ...


 
 lol yeah I can understand the last line, although the $10-20 range in iem world are pretty awesome right now (if you know what to look, like with KZ).


----------



## onraid

Hi there. Please, may you will say me, which of those are better, ed9 or kz ate, I have ed9 ver. and I didn't hear nothing, only bass. I dont like much basses
 I'm listening hip-hop, old school preferring.


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Just rc'vd the HA-FX3X from my seller on Ali express. SURPRISE!! They are not copies they are the genuine JVC Article. Bad news is:  they are fairly MEH in tone. Not bad, not good, just a nondescript slightly veiled sound with a decent amount of Bass and a narrow soundstage. Maybe they will get better with Burn in.




Hmm....I definitely question if those are the genuine article. The FX3X should not sound even slightly vieled. If they're genuine burn in should help. Those Carbon Nanotube drivers usually require a good chunk of playtime.


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Hmm....I definitely question if those are the genuine article. The FX3X should not sound even slightly vieled. If they're genuine burn in should help. Those Carbon Nanotube drivers usually require a good chunk of playtime.


 





 Scrambler these appear to be real. The ones I ordered in the pics don't have the XX on the Back of the Driver, the Case or the winder for shortening the lead length. the Ones I have do, Plus they are in JVC Sealed Packaging with JVC  all over. As Far as veiled....well maybe the last thing I listened to was the EDSE before I wrote the description, and my view was a bit skewed. Let me get a Few hours on them I will be able to tell. If These are fakes they are one of the best I've seen. Skew numbers match up, even say JVCKenwood Corporation Yokohama, Japan. Packaging looks identical to Genuines on Ebay. It makes no sense. I bought them EXPECTING Copies. Why send Real, or make an EXACT copy of an Earphone you can buy for $20 on Ebay? I can understand forging IE80 or 800 Senns. Here's pics of the Seller version which are obvious copies. Mine are different.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6711309726.html?orderId=67618569047927
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Scrambler these appear to be real. The ones I ordered in the pics don't have the XX on the Back of the Driver, the Case or the winder for shortening the lead length. the Ones I have do, Plus they are in JVC Sealed Packaging with JVC  all over. As Far as veiled....well maybe the last thing I listened to was the EDSE before I wrote the description, and my view was a bit skewed. Let me get a Few hours on them I will be able to tell. If These are fakes they are one of the best I've seen. Skew numbers match up, even say JVCKenwood Corporation Yokohama, Japan. Packaging looks identical to Genuines on Ebay. It makes no sense. I bought them EXPECTING Copies. Why send Real, or make an EXACT copy of an Earphone you can buy for $20 on Ebay? I can understand forging IE80 or 800 Senns. Here's pics of the Seller version which are obvious copies. Mine are different.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6711309726.html?orderId=67618569047927
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is a bizarre turn of events, lol. The ones in the pics are either fakes, or they had a nail file kicking about and were getting bored. I'm betting on option 1 . I know they make some quality fakes though, and sure hope you got real ones. It can be tough to tell.
  
 I ordered a pair of 'genuine' Yamaha EPH100s off Aliexpress, which is notorious for fakes. They haven't arrived yet, and I'm not expecting them to be real. Shall find out soon...
  
 Glad you're liking the EDse. Best cable of the KZ bunch imo.


----------



## anticute

Slightly off topic, but how is the quality of the fakes these days? I remember years ago, when I was really new to earphones (and aliexpress..) I ordered some Senn copies, might have been IE8, and they were just about the worst sounding earphones I've ever heard. I mean, I had almost no reference points, but even I could hear that they were pure crap. Since they're improving everything else, how is the quality of, say, IE80/IE800 fakes nowadays?


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> That is a bizarre turn of events, lol. The ones in the pics are either fakes, or they had a nail file kicking about and were getting bored. I'm betting on option 1 . I know they make some quality fakes though, and sure hope you got real ones. It can be tough to tell.
> 
> I ordered a pair of 'genuine' Yamaha EPH100s off Aliexpress, which is notorious for fakes. They haven't arrived yet, and I'm not expecting them to be real. Shall find out soon...
> 
> Glad you're liking the EDse. Best cable of the KZ bunch imo.


 





 tell you what you can do for the cables, a little baby powder in the palm of your hand and run it up and down the cable. Gets rid of the "Stickies" Also some Pure Silicone Lubricant  for use on the Tread on a Treadmill---same thing.  Then wipe excess off with a cloth. Just make sure it's PURE - no Petroleum products.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

anticute said:


> Slightly off topic, but how is the quality of the fakes these days? I remember years ago, when I was really new to earphones (and aliexpress..) I ordered some Senn copies, might have been IE8, and they were just about the worst sounding earphones I've ever heard. I mean, I had almost no reference points, but even I could hear that they were pure crap. Since they're improving everything else, how is the quality of, say, IE80/IE800 fakes nowadays?


 






 Don't get me wrong, They aren't BAD sounding by any means, just MEH to my ears. But Then again, I felt the same way about the Havi B3 Pro1s, and they are worshipped by many. It simply just doesn't sound as Good as the EDSE with 200 hours Burn in on them, and surprisingly, neither did the ED9s that also have +200 hours on them. JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## jmwreck

coil said:


> Did You check if tiny filter pieces are properly on place inside brass filters on breathing holes?


 
  
 Quote:


twinacstacks said:


> Something is either wrong or you aren't getting a proper seal. The ED9 IS Bright BUT it is *anything* but thin. It has ample, (bordering on too much), Bass.
> 
> Personally, I'm getting the Best sound from Auvio Medium Tips available from Radio Shack. These are similar to a Sony Hybrid only heavier / softer Material and a VERY Wide Bore. I tried the Larges but they were uncomfortable after a while with the deep insertion of the ED9's. Went down a size and all is well. Using the Brass nozzles.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


ruben123 said:


> Must be the tiny holes in the filters, just like the problem I had.


 
  
  
 I tried looking on the brass tips, I found out that one doesn't have the filter while the other one have. But it still didn't sound right with the brass tip that has filter on it. 
  
 While typing, my ATE arrived.


----------



## CoiL

having only one filter missing can also cause sound signature to mess up. You have to have both filters to get the "picture".


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> having only one filter missing can also cause sound signature to mess up. You have to have both filters to get the "picture".


 
  
 Or both without. Though it'll then become a slightly different picture.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Try This one Guys.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> tell you what you can do for the cables, a little baby powder in the palm of your hand and run it up and down the cable. Gets rid of the "Stickies" Also some Pure Silicone Lubricant  for use on the Tread on a Treadmill---same thing.  Then wipe excess off with a cloth. Just make sure it's PURE - no Petroleum products.
> 
> TWIN




Cool idea! Might have to try that out.


----------



## B9Scrambler

For those ANV owners that like EDM and want to experience some nice beats and quality sub-bass, check out The Going Quantum Postcast Episode 122, especially the last 30 mins. Great mix. Having issues with posting links from my phone lately. Sorry bout that.


----------



## goa604

Ugh guys i love and hate reading your opinions on ANV at the same time. I ordered them 17 days ago and they are still in china. For fuccs sake...


----------



## RedTwilight

Well.. My ed9s took a month to start becoming shipped lol.


----------



## Arsis

I received my ED9 and my initial impressions are very good! More later.
FYI.... ordered June 6th received in Atlanta, GA on June 21st


----------



## anticute

There are now some more sellers offering ED10 for around $14. So far, no high rated sellers at this price, but I assume this will change soon. The ones that are offering them now have (except the one I had my bad experience with) good feedback, but not that many rating points. Anyway, I'm going to hold off a bit more, until there are more high rated sellers, but just FYI


----------



## Bananiq

new to this thread,
  
 so what are the current tops- ATE, ANV or ED9?


----------



## TwinACStacks

RIGHT NOW, and this is MY opinion only, (although I reserve the right to change it),  the order is:
  
 1. ANV
 2. EDSE
 3. ATE
 4. ED9
  
 I have  a Pair FX3X Burning in as well as the CM9, more KZs and others on the way. Plus I saved my change and am ready to spring for the Fiio X3ii any day now.
  








 TWIN


----------



## anticute

My list would be:
  
 1. ED9, brass tips
 2. EDSE
 3. ATE
  
 Still waiting for the ANV, if it beats the ED9 I'll be stoked


----------



## mebaali

My current preference would be
  
 1) ES
 2) ATE
 3) ED9
 4) EDSE


----------



## chavez

mebaali said:


> My current preference would be
> 
> 1) ES
> 2) ATE
> ...


 
  
 Why did you rate ES so much higher than EDSE? They seem almost identical in design.Maybe its that "filter" on the back.


----------



## Bananiq

^Thanks guys a lot!
 If I told you that my main preferences are - soundstage, clarity, bass quality - what KZ IEM would be best suitable for me?


----------



## chavez

bananiq said:


> ^Thanks guys a lot!
> If I told you that my main preferences are - soundstage, clarity, bass quality - what KZ IEM would be best suitable for me?


 
 ALL OF THEM XD
  
 But seriously, i have 10$ and I constantly hand here and opinions change on a daily basis,everyone has different feel for the sound,also some broken ones appeared.I can't wait for a month to recieve defective pair,and by the time they arrive ,opinions will change again.ED9 was best,now ANV came into the story again XD.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bananiq said:


> new to this thread,
> 
> so what are the current tops- ATE, ANV or ED9?




My current tops are:
1. ANV / Micro Ring
2. ATE
3. ED3
4. ED9 (gold)
5. EDse

Everything below the ATE tends to flip flop, but those three at the top are golden.


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> Try This one Guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 I'm in a trance and I've not even hit play yet


----------



## Selenium

I was trying to hit play and it wasn't working, then I remembered my computer does not have a touchscreen.


----------



## mebaali

chavez said:


> Why did you rate ES so much higher than EDSE? They seem almost identical in design.Maybe its that "filter" on the back.


 
 I don't know whether it's just me or anyone else too had similar experience.  From day one, the EDSEs that I had received were too bright for my taste (prominent vocals, hot highs and anemic bass were its hallmark with the stock tips, changing to Comply Foam T400 did help reduce the treble harshness to a great extent though) whereas my ES sounded with perfectly balanced sound signature (even with stock tips, but using JVC Spiral Dots tips made them sound even better) with enough bass response and smooth but extended treble (vocals too sounded more natural).


----------



## Hisoundfi

IMHO 

ED9 
ATE 
EDSE 
GR (old version) 
Micro Ring


----------



## Hisoundfi

ED3, ES, and ANV are honorable mentions IMHO


----------



## ilikeiem

Don't miss $4 USD KZ-R1. It's cool!


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> IMHO
> 
> ED9
> ATE
> ...


 
 I'm with you on those first two then again I don't or have not owned the others
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So many iem's and so little time (budget to) that I want to try some others and the ED9's and ATE are my KZ's which I'm extremely happy with especially at their price points. You and Paul are going to make me go broke for sure, oh the torture of it all
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL Think the A73/83's, Titan's, 2000J and T Delta's are going to run me more!


----------



## Hisoundfi

podster said:


> I'm with you on those first two then again I don't or have not owned the others:rolleyes:  So many iem's and so little time (budget to) that I want to try some others and the ED9's and ATE are my KZ's which I'm extremely happy with especially at their price points. You and Paul are going to make me go broke for sure, oh the torture of it all  LOL Think the A73/83's, Titan's, 2000J and T Delta's are going to run me more!


You forgot about the e80 lol

Jkjk kind of, not really


----------



## EISENbricher

For me

ATE
ED9
ED8m
EDSE
R1


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> You forgot about the e80 lol
> 
> Jkjk kind of, not really


 
 U Bad boy Vince
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got a new avatar for you:

 I did forget about the e80 but if the wife saw my iem stash right now I'd be out sleeping with the dog!


----------



## vovka

chavez said:


> Why did you rate ES so much higher than EDSE? They seem almost identical in design.Maybe its that "filter" on the back.



sound signature is different
i also like ES more than EDSE


----------



## Shadowsora

ATE(By far the best KZ Iem for my tastes, or i got a specially tuned pair can't explain it better this thing is just great)
 ED9(Brass)
 EDSE
 ED3/R35(Totally different but i like those the same).
  
 That's my ranking, looking forward for ED10 :x


----------



## CoiL

Atm, in current slightly modded configuration, my top 3 are ANV, ATE and ED9 (brass). I honestly can`t rate one over another because they have different sound signature and music focus.
 ATE is great all-rounder while ED9 is more suitable for EDM/pop-rock and ANV for acoustic/instrumental/vocal. 
 Though, my opinion might change after I finish modding them all.
  
 About EDSE, I and my friend (who is using them most of the time) have burned it long time by now and I still find highs splashywith SSsss sibilance in vocals and bass department is still lacking littlebit. Maybe I should try to mod them sometime but they are not so appealing for that in my eyes/ears.
 GR wasn`t bad or good for me but it was totally different from other KZs with its quite intimate/foward and Λ-shaped soundstage. They were great for oldschool rock imo.​ R35 was very similar to Piston2 when its harsh highs are removed by foam mod. ​  
If someone pointed gun to my head - I would say ATE is best KZ IEM at the moment. I`m so sorry ANV & ED9 ;( !​


----------



## chavez

coil said:


> Atm, in current slightly modded configuration, my top 3 are ANV, ATE and ED9 (brass). I honestly can`t rate one over another because they have different sound signature and music focus.
> ATE is great all-rounder while ED9 is more suitable for EDM/pop-rock and ANV for acoustic/instrumental/vocal.
> Though, my opinion might change after I finish modding them all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Didn't know you can make font that small  .


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> Atm, in current slightly modded configuration, my top 3 are ANV, ATE and ED9 (brass). I honestly can`t rate one over another because they have different sound signature and music focus.
> ATE is great all-rounder while ED9 is more suitable for EDM/pop-rock and ANV for acoustic/instrumental/vocal.
> Though, my opinion might change after I finish modding them all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL that last line haha.. And hm ANV is good for acoustic, instrumental and vocal..?


----------



## knightskid

Bought quite a number of kz earphones...and this is how i store all my earphones. Upgrading from small compartment to larger compartment. Got it at Daiso for sgd$2.


----------



## CoiL

> And hm ANV is good for acoustic, instrumental and vocal..?


 
 Yes, because ANV has very good micro-details through all FR and overall sound resolution quite surprising.
 Sounds very effortless in detail department. Vocals are cleaner and more in focus than with ATE/ED9. 
 If only ANV could do tinybit more and deeper sub-bass ;( Will receive soon some triple-flange tips for deeper insertion and try few more mod tricks and see what happens then 
 But another thing I`m suspecting is that ANV benefits from amping and will bring more sub-bass into play.


----------



## RedTwilight

knightskid said:


> Bought quite a number of kz earphones...and this is how i store all my earphones. Upgrading from small compartment to larger compartment. Got it at Daiso for sgd$2.


 
  
 Wow that actually works quite well! I have the opaque version of the left side one. Love it! Super strong!


----------



## lesp4ul

Using dat compartment for a while.


----------



## gtrx333

knightskid said:


> Bought quite a number of kz earphones...and this is how i store all my earphones. Upgrading from small compartment to larger compartment. Got it at Daiso for sgd$2.


 
 Nice. This is what ive been using, they are quite handy as i use the larger one to store my cables and chargers and thr smaller one i can use as a travel pack to hold my power bank etc.


----------



## TwinACStacks

twinacstacks said:


> RIGHT NOW, and this is MY opinion only, (although I reserve the right to change it),  the order is:
> 
> 1. ANV
> 2. EDSE
> ...


 





 After an Extended listen to Both the EDSE and ED9 last night I feel a revision is in order:
  
 1. ANV
*2.* *OR*  *3. * EDSE *=* ED9   (EQ-wise, they are exact polar opposites) I give a slight edge still to the EDSE for not being as fatiguing to listen to for long Periods.
 4. ATE
  








 TWIN


----------



## Bananiq

^ Thanks - seems like ANV is for me then...


----------



## chavez

Looks like even tho i like a bit more bass, im gonna be ordering myself the ANV .


----------



## MaciWorks

Please, could someone some give some advice to me? I have already EDSE, I ordered ED9, but I would like to buy ANV too. But I really don't know, what are the differences between the ANV's I found at the same shop. Are there any? 
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32235994308.html
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/2049021967.html
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/2019560660.html
Different prices, so are they different? And which one is the good one with decent bass and sound overall?

(Sorry for my bad english.)


----------



## CoiL

chavez said:


> Looks like even tho i like a bit more bass, im gonna be ordering myself the ANV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It has very good quality bass, comes into play when needed with good quantity... but deep sub-bass is littlebit lacking, unfortunately.
 And if You read backwards, there might be 2 different versions of ANV. I`m still thinking I got newer one, just nobody tends to mention that sub-bass thingy or I`m just not having good and deep enough fit atm which I`ll know soon after trying some triple/bi-flnges and longer nozzle mod.


----------



## chavez

coil said:


> It has very good quality bass, comes into play when needed with good quantity... but deep sub-bass is littlebit lacking, unfortunately.
> And if You read backwards, there might be 2 different versions of ANV. I`m still thinking I got newer one, just nobody tends to mention that sub-bass thingy or I`m just not having good and deep enough fit atm which I`ll know soon after trying some triple/bi-flnges and longer nozzle mod.




Have you heard Superlux HD381 series?


----------



## CoiL

Some time ago thought about it but then I jumped on KZ hype train... glad I did 
  
 Edit:
  
 Btw, another thing I noticed about ANV... With lower quality and badly recorded music they easily bring out slight hiss.
 It`s not noticeable while music is playing but on quiet places it can be heard sometimes. 

 And I do believe they benefit from amping in sub-bass department. Just tried them with DX50 high-gain (which I usually do not use because mid-gain is more dynamic)... and sub-bass is actually quite good. Here are some sub-bass test songs out many many I have in my EDM collection:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 






 ANV does quite good with those songs actually but since its bass department is fast hitting, clear and accurate, I find it lack in sub-bass sustain/roll-off with this kind of music and prefer ED9/ATE for it (last song from 1:50 is good example for it).
 Some high-tone sounds/instruments with this kind of music can also be littlebit "hurting" because ANV has different imaging/focus with highs than ATE/ED9. In case of some highs (depends on mastering) ANV "hits" them right into middle of headspace while ATE/ED9 keep them more away from headspace centre point (using same song for all three to evaluate).
 Like I said, imo ANV is more suitable for acoustic/instrumental/vocals. 


coil said:


> I honestly can`t rate one over another because they have different sound signature and music focus.
> ATE is great all-rounder while ED9 is more suitable for EDM/pop-rock and ANV for acoustic/instrumental/vocal.


 
 Hope this is useful for somebody making choice between ATE/ANV/ED9


----------



## Grayson73

Does ED9 sound like an improved "Piston 2"?


----------



## CoiL

No. Not just improved... it has everything better... better soundstage, separation, imaging, bass quality etc.
 If You want something very similar to Piston2 from KZ lineup, then r35 with foam mod is very similar when same tips being used.


----------



## Breezy

Decided to give EDSE another chance.
Conclusion: It's still a very aggressive tin can that's a good value who like that signature. It's much drier than I remember and it's very dependent on song choice.

Songs I can recommend:
Female vocal-centric:
Can I- Alina Baraz & Galmatias. RnB.
Noche de Paz- Fifth Harmony. Silent night in Spanish.
Ghost- Halsey. 1Mic1Take. Indie-acoustic.

Punk-rock:
Robbers- The 1975.

Wondering if I should get a DAC and ATE/ANV or scale up and get the Tenores/M6 Pro/Soundmagic E80.


----------



## CoiL

I recommend getting DAC first and accordingly to DAC sound signature make IEM choice. It all starts from _The Source_!


----------



## TwinACStacks

Near as I can figure there must be GIGANTIC differences in Builds for certain KZ Models. The Bass on My Pair of EDSE with Mic. Absolutely Destroys the ED9 in Quantity and Quality, It is Fast Clear and Covers the ENTIRE Bass Spectrum: Sub, Contra, Low, Mid and Upper. In fact, I would call all the Frequencies just south of True Midrange, (Middle Mids), Extended--while those North of True Mid are Recessed with the Exception of Mid Treble which is also extended. Like I said earlier, it is the Polar Opposite of the ED9. Comparatively the ED9 is More recessed in the Bass region, (with the Exception of a Very Extended Mid Bass), to True Midrange and all the frequencies are extended from True Mid. to insanely High Treble. I had to Play around for quite a while with the EQ on my player for each one to figure this out. It's why the EDSE is Darker and the ED9 is Brighter. Contrary to what some are saying I find they Both have equal Refinement, Resolution, and Definition only it occurs in 2 different frequency ranges. The ED9 as a result apparently, (not actually), has greater resolution as more normal listening frequencies that are quite etched, including Female Vocals, occur in it's extended frequency range.
  
 I'm going to post a video for you to test this out. You only need to listen to the 1st Track with the ED9 first, then rewind it and use the EDSE. The Sonic difference will be readily apparent. Use The Tips that sound best to you. It has decent Resolution as it is in 320kbps.
  
 JMHO I hope You get the same results I did. Otherwise I'm insane and it's affected my hearing.
  








 TWIN


----------



## jj69

Guys, just a quick report on those nice looking "KZ" IEM cases (the square ones with the carbon fibre-look top/bottom and the red seam around the outside). 
  
 I just received the three I ordered from seller: "Shenzhen Li Lang Da Co.,Ltd"  
  
 The cases are nice enough, with just one issue: They stink.  As in, they smell BAD, really bad.
  
 It's the smell of cheap glue and textiles that you normally get with a lot of Chinese made goods.  Normally, this might not be a significant issue, but I'm a bit weary of the foul odor somehow being passed along to my IEMs if I store them in one of these cases.  They're worn on one's head, after all, and I don't want that odor when I'm listening to music. 
  
 I'm going to try leaving the cases open for a few days to see if the odor subsides, but I'm not holding my breath (pun intended).


----------



## CoiL

> The Bass on My Pair of EDSE with Mic. Absolutely Destroys the ED9 in Quantity...Covers the ENTIRE Bass Spectrum...Comparatively the ED9 is More recessed in the Bass region.


 




  
 Quote:


twinacstacks said:


> Near as I can figure there must be GIGANTIC differences in Builds for certain KZ Models.
> 
> Otherwise I'm insane and it's affected my hearing.


 
 Must be one of those (or those women pics) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Though, I have faom modded brass tips, maybe there`s the difference.


> Use The Tips that sound best to you.


 
 And this can be also cause of difference. I`m using very tiny short tips which let me insert brass nozzles deep into ear-channel.
  
 Another thing Twin... You should really try other types of music than those Vocal trance tracks. Imo that last song (1st in the video) is no good example of deep sub-bass - for my ears, there almost are none, just low-bass. Try those three songs I posted earlier, there`s some deep sub-bass. Additionally try some jazz with natural instruments like contrabass or low saxophone - EDSE lacks in that department. IMO


----------



## xtwargodtx

Haven't been to head fi for a while but anyways I'd like your guys opinion on what iem I should get if I listen to EDM and R&B the kz anv or ed9? I own the ttpod t1-e's but I just want a iem that I can be sorta "rough" with. So far the ed9 looks really interesting thanks to the interchangeable filters.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Must be one of those (or those women pics)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Coil I was afraid of that. I used Freemake Youtube to MPS Boom to Load it onto my Fiio X1, and It has Insane Bass and Sub bass doing it that way. It doesn't come across the same way with a normal Youtube Posting on a Computer. Other Music You say? What kind you want? I got pretty Much Everything from Tom Scott, Weather Report, to Keb Mo' or Lou Reed (BTW Ecstacy is a Superb Song)
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Twin, I just added some notes to my last post when You posted ;D


> Though, I have faom modded brass tips, maybe there`s the difference.
> 
> 
> > Use The Tips that sound best to you.
> ...


----------



## TwinACStacks

Coil,  Check This out:
  
  
  

  
 One of "Uncle Lou's" best. RIP
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Btw, I just received my 2 other ED9`s (which were sold for 6.9$ piece). I`m using source selector switch and using different amount of same type foam in brass nozzles with same tips being used.
 I can confirm that amount of foam causes difference in bass quantity. I`m using Piston2 foams (about 3x size of ED9 gold nozzle foams) inside 1st unit and for 2nd I`m using ED9 gold nozzle foams inside brass nozzles (inserted before nozzle port holes just where the winding is). Difference in bass is clearly noticeable: more foam = more bass. 
 I`m using foam only to remove littlebit sharp highs not to increase bass and 2nd unit sounds better, 1st has littlebit too much bass for me but then again with EDM it sounds great.
  
 Edit:
  
 Ok guys, 3 options - KZ has unstable quality in SQ/QC or we have newer/older batch difference... or maybe they have "burn-in" difference, idk. 
 Using exactly same tips, brass nozzles, all without foam mod... my very 1st ED9 has littlebit more bass than those 2 new. Difference is little though.
 I took a closer look on them all and noticed difference in driver protector "plate" color under driver grill that is attached inside ED9 body in front of driver (6 holes with 1 littebit larger hole in middle) .
 My older pair Is kinda "black" metal while those 2 newer ones have it shiny. 
 Will leave those ED9`s burning in and report back after some time.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I noticed last night that the EDSE become more focused with a little more Treble definition Just by Covering the Backs with your fingertips.
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Btw, I just received my 2 other ED9`s (which were sold for 6.9$ piece). I`m using source selector switch and using different amount of same type foam in brass nozzles with same tips being used.
> *I can confirm that amount of foam causes difference in bass quantity. I`m using Piston2 foams (about 3x size of ED9 gold nozzle foams) inside 1st unit and for 2nd I`m using ED9 gold nozzle foams (inserted before nozzle port holes just where the winding is). Difference in bass is clearly noticeable: more foam = more bass.*
> I`m using foam only to remove littlebit sharp highs not to increase bass and 2nd unit sounds better, 1st has littlebit too much bass for me but then again with EDM it sounds great.
> 
> ...


 
 That's obvious dude.


----------



## CoiL

Everybody don`t know it, especially newcomers to this thread... dude
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit:
  
 Another interesting observation. I had multimeter out for some electronics tinkering and thought I measure 
 KZ IEM impedances too. Here they are:
  
 * ATE
 stated impedance 16 Ohm
 measured impedance L - 19.7 Ohm, R - 19.6 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 37.2
  
 * ANV
 stated impedance 18 Ohm
 measured impedance L - 32.2 Ohm, R - 32.6 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 64.4 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Imho, ANV needs amping for sure! 
  
 * ED9
 stated impedance 18 Ohm
 measured impedance L - 16.1 Ohm, R - 16.4 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 31.6


----------



## goa604

Let me join you CoiL! 

 I think you got it wrong though, i think L and R drivers are in parallel
 so the overall Impedance is calculated: *Rtotal = R1×R2/(R1+R2)*e
 So by your measurements ATE *Rtotal =* 9.8 Ohm
                                     ANV *Rtotal =* 16.2 Ohm
                                     ED9 *Rtotal =*  8.1 Ohm
 If im wrong someone please correct me 


 My measurements:

 * EDSE

 measured impedance *L*- 15.6 Ohm, *R* - 15.6 Ohm,  *R*total = 7.8 Ohm


 * R3 

 measured impedance *L*- 15.3 Ohm, *R* - 18.2 Ohm   *R*total = 8.3 Ohm   (Huh?! L and R such different impedance?)  

 I might get ANV by tuesday so i will measure my pair and post it as well.


----------



## CoiL

> I think you got it wrong though


 
 I think no. That would mean my Fidelio X1 has 15Ohm impedance - it`s not possible.
 Drivers share common ground point that`s all. IEM/HP impedance is measured same as with speakers.
 Do some google, I think I got it totally right
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Or did You mean I got those L>R (left through right) wrong? That isn`t total impedance. Each driver is being driven separated so that "stated" value is taken from one driver.


----------



## goa604

I believe headphones are connected in parallel but its impedance is presented as impedance of each driver, my Superlux 668B which say 2x56Ohm measure 60Ohm L and R both. 
 Someone knowledgeable needs to get in this thread ASAP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I mean when we talk about alternating current there is more to it than just ohm resistance, there is capacitive reactance and inductive reactance as well, its hell full of complications really. Impedance probably varies greatly with frequency.


----------



## CoiL

Well, my Superlux HD681 has also written on it 2x32Ohm and it measures L 34.5 and R 33 Ohm ...but it is sold and stated everywhere as 32Ohm cans. Same thing as with my Fidelio X1.


> Impedance probably varies greatly with frequency.


 
 Of course! Every speaker and also IEM/HP driver impedance is actually vary in different frequency range, it`s just a "golden middle" nominal number 
 



> Due to the reactive nature of a speaker's impedance over the audio band frequencies, giving a speaker a single value for 'impedance' rating is in principle impossible, as one may surmise from the impedance vs. frequency curve above. The nominal impedance of a loudspeaker is a convenient, single number reference that loosely describes the impedance value of the loudspeaker over a majority of the audio band. A speaker's nominal impedance is defined as:


----------



## CoiL

goa604 , I`m sorry but I think You are getting it wrong atm. Speaker/Driver impedance is measured separate and usually that separate value per driver is advertised as speaker/driver/IEM/HP nominal impedance. That L>R (left through right driver) measurement (series impedance) was just a thing I usually measure additionally for "checking" L/R difference. ATE can`t be a ~10 Ohm IEM like my X1 can`t be ~15 Ohm cans.


----------



## knives

coil said:


> goa604 , I`m sorry but I think You are getting it wrong atm. Speaker/Driver impedance is measured separate and usually that separate value per driver is advertised as speaker/driver/IEM/HP nominal impedance. That L>R (left through right driver) measurement (series impedance) was just a thing I usually measure additionally for "checking" L/R difference. ATE can`t be a ~10 Ohm IEM like my X1 can`t be ~15 Ohm cans.


 
 Did you measure the impedance or the resistance?
  
 I believe that you actually verify the cable resistance between the plug and the splitter when you measure L>R.
  
 L  = Driver  + 2x cable
 R = Driver + 2x cable
  
 L>R = 2x Driver + 2x cable + 2x ( cable from driver to the splitter)


----------



## CoiL

I measured impedance. Cable impedance alone should be quite small and I can`t measure it separately atm and why should I when it is already taken into account when measured from the jack? 
 Or isn`t it? You guys are getting me confused. Anyway, what I tried to show with measuring driver+cable impedance is how much it differs from KZ stated impedance, that`s all.
 No need to go crazy, these are just nominal numbers anyway.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just to make it more confusing, now we have THESE ANV, Which They are calling ckw1000:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-deep-bass-earpods-stereo-headphones-Top-quality-cattle-kz-ckw1000-top-in-ear-earphones/1896156587.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

That`s really weird... two different pics and one of them says CKW Pro. Cable is also changed to 5N OFC one that I linked some time ago as option for replacement cable. I think that is not legit/official version but who knows
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe that CKW1000ANV is actually that "old version" of ANV all sellers are referring to?


----------



## Ruben123

seems like a diy modded version


----------



## TwinACStacks

the ones with the Blue cable and the Earth colored ends are sporting the "KZ" Logo as well. The ones I have are "GK" That Blue cable looks like some type of upgrade.
  
 Really Odd.
  








 TWIN


----------



## bhazard

twinacstacks said:


> the ones with the Blue cable and the Earth colored ends are sporting the "KZ" Logo as well. The ones I have are "GK" That Blue cable looks like some type of upgrade.
> 
> Really Odd.
> 
> ...


 
 They are older models. I have that one and the CKW Pro. They were good, but I think the newer ED9 and ATE are better.


----------



## theuprising

Does anyone know hypothetically which one of these would pair up best with a warm amp, and benefit from amping?
  
 For reference, the TTPOD T1e sounds like trash on my amp, very bassy and bloated. Maybe the ED9 will sound good?


----------



## B9Scrambler

theuprising said:


> Does anyone know hypothetically which one of these would pair up best with a warm amp, and benefit from amping?
> 
> For reference, the TTPOD T1e sounds like trash on my amp, very bassy and bloated. Maybe the ED9 will sound good?




I'm sure some of the brighter ones would pair up well: ED3, ED9 (brass), etc. The ANV pairs well with warmer stuff, and seems to benefit from the extra bit of power.


----------



## EISENbricher

theuprising said:


> Does anyone know hypothetically which one of these would pair up best with a warm amp, and benefit from amping?
> 
> For reference, the TTPOD T1e sounds like trash on my amp, very bassy and bloated. Maybe the ED9 will sound good?



ED9 brass and ATE both sound fuller with warm amp and don't seem to bloat bass. I'd recommend these.


----------



## leobigfield

After reading some ATE impressions i just feel like my ATE is a "different" IEM. I really feel almost zero bass. I really think that they have some nice sounding guitars and a nice detail retrieval but really feel no bass. Anyone here have the same experience?


----------



## tsetse7

leobigfield said:


> After reading some ATE impressions i just feel like my ATE is a "different" IEM. I really feel almost zero bass. I really think that they have some nice sounding guitars and a nice detail retrieval but really feel no bass. Anyone here have the same experience?


 
 I also received an ATE with not enough bass, and I just closed the vents on the nozzle. With the closed vents, the ATE has awesome bass.


----------



## leobigfield

How did you closed the vents? Just put some tape/glue? No driver flex?


----------



## EISENbricher

So basically ATE's vent is covered with some kind of micro fabric, from inside. This is easily noticeable here (my ATE, which has nice quantity of bass) 







If your ATE has vents that are not xoveredcovered from inside then it's likely to be the root cause. Please check out ppl and post your findings here.


----------



## leobigfield

Wow, just a completely different beast now!!! Thank you guys!


----------



## leobigfield

Well, everything i have to say now is just that this quality shouldn't be allowed for a U$10 bud delivered from the other side of the world into my doorstep. Just *impressive*.


----------



## Suneth

Anyone looked at ED10? i posted the link on other thread.
  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-original-KZ-ED10-in-ear-headphones-fever-wire-balance-HIFI-bass-for-mp3-mp4/32377244418.html


----------



## Suneth

leobigfield said:


> Well, everything i have to say now is just that this quality shouldn't be allowed for a U$10 bud delivered from the other side of the world into my doorstep. Just *impressive*.


 

 Don't say that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 If they do that i won't be able to afford them


----------



## Sopp

suneth said:


> Anyone looked at ED10? i posted the link on other thread.


 
  
 Ordered and probably will receive by the weekend.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Did they Change venting on the ATE at some point? My older Silvers have Vents My newer Clears DO NOT have vents. I just checked under a strong light with a magnifying Glass....NADA.
  
 ODD.....
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just Got my Fiio X3ii yesterday. These KZ's sound EVEN BETTER!!!!
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Did they Change venting on the ATE at some point? My older Silvers have Vents My newer Clears DO NOT have vents. I just checked under a strong light with a magnifying Glass....NADA.
> 
> ODD.....
> 
> TWIN




Maybe they heard too many complaints of no bass? I like mine as is, mediocre sub-bass and all. They're nicely balanced, warm, and smooth. The ATE is on of the few iems in my collection perfect for extra long listening sessions.


----------



## CoiL

My silver ones bass was same as my new black ones and both have vent holes. Closing them will make bass/kick noticeably more present but I liked my Silver and now black version better without closing holes - more balanced and neutral. Btw, ATE is quite sensitive to tip rolling imo, at least with my ears. Tried almost same shaped/sized tips and result was slightly different bass quantity.
 If some ppl are getting no bass then definitely try different tips. I got best result with smallest ED9 tips and those white very soft tiny tips I posted with ED9 pic. 
 I`m not so sure but from memory I think silver ATE sounded littlebit more "hollow" than black. It might come from shell material difference. Will do grill-mod sometime soon and hear if it has same result as with silver ones.


----------



## Shadowsora

Yup, bass on ATE is tip sensitive, i had the same impression(that there is no bass at all) when i used Sony hybrids, i tried about 5-6 different tips and found the best one for my ATE(I don't recall where I got these tips.)


----------



## CoiL

theuprising said:


> Does anyone know hypothetically which one of these would pair up best with a warm amp, and benefit from amping?


 
 Probably ANV would be best choice for warm amp and also benefit from it.


> * ANV
> stated impedance 18 Ohm
> measured impedance L - 32.2 Ohm, R - 32.6 Ohm


 
 And it sounds nowhere near bloated or bassy.


----------



## lesp4ul

shadowsora said:


> Yup, bass on ATE is tip sensitive, i had the same impression(that there is no bass at all) when i used Sony hybrids, i tried about 5-6 different tips and found the best one for my ATE(I don't recall where I got these tips.)




+1 found best fit and sound with sony hybrid.


----------



## Shadowsora

lesp4ul said:


> +1 found best fit and sound with sony hybrid.


 
 Actually i had a bad fitting with Sony hybrids, i probably had a syntax "error" on my post xD, well my Sony hybrids are a bit different either way, i tried the normal ones too though. 
 Anyway everything is subjective, but the fact is that ATE is indeed tip sensitive.


----------



## yangian

Got ED9. A very detailed and neutral sound, great bass. The con. is soundstage - small and 2D. Overall, I prefer it over ATE. No matched at the price, especially at $6 sale price!


----------



## leobigfield

@yangian
 Where did you get them fot  $6 ?!


----------



## yangian

leobigfield said:


> @yangian
> Where did you get them fot  $6 ?!


 

 A limited time deal from aliexpress. Someone posted here.


----------



## CoiL

yangian said:


> The con. is soundstage - small and 2D.


 
 I wouldn`t call it 2D and small 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 GR is what I would call small and "2D" soundstage.
 ED9 just has narrower soundstage than ATE/ANV but depth and layering is still quite good.
 But this all depends on DAC/Amp also. If latter is "limiting" soundstage, then yes, ED9 may sound somewhat small & 2D.


----------



## gtrx333

yangian said:


> Got ED9. A very detailed and neutral sound, great bass. The con. is soundstage - small and 2D. Overall, I prefer it over ATE. No matched at the price, especially at $6 sale price!


 
 You finally decided lol!


----------



## gtrx333

.


----------



## CoiL

Nice pics but... HOW DOES IT SOUND ?!? Especially compared to ATE/ED9 ?


----------



## gtrx333

Will report back how they sound. Also it seems like they have listened to us as even though the cable is the same as the ed9, it is a lot less 'graby'.
  
 nvm the cables are still graby, guess i was just imagining things


----------



## gtrx333

Okay here are my initial impressions (mind you i'm still a noob at describing sound):
  
 To my ears, the ED10 sounds mid-centric/bright and fairly cold sounding especially when comparing it to the ATE. It does seem to have quite a large soundstage but I would say it's slightly below that of the ATE. Bass seems to be recessed and there doesn't seem to be much sub-bass. I find the sound to be very similar to the ED9 but without ANY warmth. 
  
 So in order of preference: ED9, ATE (although with a dac, I would say this is pretty close to the ED9), ED10, GR
  
 Now to test the ANV!
  
 EDIT: They sound very different with the black "normal tips" than with blue spiral tips. I've got to learn to stop using using the fancy tips KZs come with.......Back to the listening board
  
 Okay so I went back and listened to the ED10 with the large black tips (which have  much narrower bore and a better seal for me). The sound still seems to have elevated mids but the focus is really the bass. There's quite a bit of it, particularly sub-bass. I reckon these have as much if not slightly more sub-bass than the tenore. While I find the sound signature comparable to the ATE, the ATE have a much bigger soundstage and more laid-back/relaxed sound to them. These are much more in your face but make for quite a fun sound and listening experience.


----------



## TwinACStacks

As Far as the "Grabby" cables go, maybe you missed an earlier post, but just take a little Baby or Talcum powder in the palm of your hand and run the cables through it. This works very well.
  
 AND: They smell nice.
  








 TWIN


----------



## gtrx333

twinacstacks said:


> As Far as the "Grabby" cables go, maybe you missed an earlier post, but just take a little Baby or Talcum powder in the palm of your hand and run the cables through it. This works very well.
> 
> AND: They smell nice.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah did see the post although have't been able to try it as I don't seem to have any talcum powder around the house. Something worth doing though so thanks for the reminder.


----------



## TwinACStacks

It works really well and so far I haven't had to do it a second time to any of the cables.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

gtrx333 said:


> Okay here are my initial impressions (mind you i'm still a noob at describing sound):
> 
> To my ears, the ED10 sounds mid-centric/bright and fairly cold sounding especially when comparing it to the ATE. It does seem to have quite a large soundstage but I would say it's slightly below that of the ATE. Bass seems to be recessed and there doesn't seem to be much sub-bass. I find the sound to be very similar to the ED9 but without ANY warmth.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! Glad I didn`t rush into buying ED10. Atm I`m loving my black ATE very much. Been "torturing" it with more powerful desk amp for some time and it seems to have "opened & cleaned up" more. Definitely best soundstage and imaging out of KZ IEM`s I have. Despite ANV being little more detailed, I find ATE more fuller/dynamic and pleasant sounding... I`m enjoying music again without trying to "pick" on sound and that makes ATE best KZ IEM to me (with little edge over ANV/ED9).
 I think I have finally found my endgame budget IEM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Now all I have to do is littlebit modding (cable change + wood + grill mod) and I`m happy to "leave" this thread and become frequent observer. Will post some pics when I finish modding.
  
 Cheers fellow KZ maniacs! Was fun being part of KZ rally


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Thanks! Glad I didn`t rush into buying ED10. Atm I`m loving my black ATE very much. Been "torturing" it with more powerful desk amp for some time and it seems to have "opened & cleaned up" more. Definitely best soundstage and imaging out of KZ IEM`s I have. Despite ANV being little more detailed, I find ATE more fuller/dynamic and pleasant sounding... I`m enjoying music again without trying to "pick" on sound and that makes ATE best KZ IEM to me (with little edge over ANV/ED9).
> I think I have finally found my endgame budget IEM
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ATE has better soundstage and ED9 is more detailed. It would be great if KZ could have a future product to combine the pros. of both of them.


----------



## Starfield

coil said:


> Cheers fellow KZ maniacs! Was fun being part of KZ rally


 

 One can never stop buying IEMs!!
 Well, I just hope you can make it.


----------



## CoiL

yangian said:


> ATE has better soundstage and ED9 is more detailed. It would be great if KZ could have a future product to combine the pros. of both of them.


 
 Actually I find ATE being more detailed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ATE has better balanced/neutral (with tinybit warmth) sound signature, separation (especially in width), transparency, imaging and soundstage... this all results overall better details. 
 I think You are confusing Your ears with ED9 "brighter" sound signature (litttlebit harsh highs) and thus find it more "detailed". 
 Details are not only in one frequency range and ATE does details better if whole FR is taken into account.
 Btw, can You remind me and others what You are using for source gear? SQ depends A LOT from source gear also.
  
 IMO
  


starfield said:


> One can never stop buying IEMs!!
> Well, I just hope you can make it.


 
 Well, just some more ATE`s incoming soon (for gift and backup)


----------



## yangian

coil said:


> Actually I find ATE being more detailed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I did not AB them. It's from my memory and without burning in. From other posts, it seems not only I think ED9 is more detailed. Analysis of ATE is most weak at high frequency (compared to itself).
 I use laptop with MusicBee or Nexus 7 with Neutron, amplified by NX1. They are not that high end like IE80, no detectable improvement with better source.


----------



## theuprising

Hmm... well coil is the only one so far to say the ED9 is less detailed than the ATE. For rock and classical would the ATE or ANV be a good buy? I need isolation, and there have been reports the ATE bizzarely doesn't seal well. How is the ANV for rock music?


----------



## EISENbricher

Of course, ED9 with mods/material stuffed in nozzles would sound less detailed than ATE. Any material would block passage of certain frequencies. Just like pulling down specific knobs on EQ.
  
 As per my comparison after spending some quality time, ED9 with stock brass filter sounds more detailed, provides rich micro details. Gold nozzle kind of kills the details while emphasizing on low end. ATE is smooth, warm sounding IEM with fair amount of details while keeping respectable slam in lows. (ATE is very tip dependent though).


----------



## yangian

I'll spend some time to AB them later.


----------



## yangian

BTW, when I say 2D, I mean it lacks height, not depth. But only in those high end like KEF M200, IE80, 800 can I find height of the soundstage, so fully 3D sound. So it does not mean that the presentation of ED9 is not good. On the contrary, it's great for a budgeted product.


----------



## CoiL

I have said all I have to say about ED9 vs. ATE details. Wish ppl could read my posts properly and think along what I`m saying. Unfortunately many here just grab onto one thing ripped out of context and "amplify" it. I really don`t bother to comment anymore and "prove" something. I have found what I was looking for and ATE it is
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seeya next time with mod pics!


----------



## martino416

Ordered 2 ATE's (translucent and silver) one month ago to Canada and still waiting.. Bought ED9 3 weeks ago and got it already , damn China Post.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Has anybody tried the Moxpad (X3 and X6) Yet?
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

twinacstacks said:


> Has anybody tried the Moxpad (X3 and X6) Yet?
> 
> TWIN



http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/16545#post_11727237

This is the right place for that. I've seen lot of moxpad discussions here.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> I have said all I have to say about ED9 vs. ATE details. Wish ppl could read my posts properly and think along what I`m saying. Unfortunately many here just grab onto one thing ripped out of context and "amplify" it. I really don`t bother to comment anymore and "prove" something. I have found what I was looking for and ATE it is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Excuse me, please clarify this? Who amplified what and how it's wrong that a material inside nozzle doesn't affect details. I'll be glad to know.
 The context is same as always, source gear and etc, everyone knows it... we are on head-fi dude.


----------



## lesp4ul

shadowsora said:


> Actually i had a bad fitting with Sony hybrids, i probably had a syntax "error" on my post xD, well my Sony hybrids are a bit different either way, i tried the normal ones too though.
> Anyway everything is subjective, but the fact is that ATE is indeed tip sensitive.


 
 Ooops, my mistake XD, but yea i get best fit and seal with hybrid tips, maybe just different person different ear canals. I have JDM spinfit but ATE nozzles are too large to insert, I'm afraid it will break the spinfit :\


----------



## CoiL

theuprising said:


> Hmm... well coil is the only one so far to say the ED9 is less detailed than the ATE. For rock and classical would the ATE or ANV be a good buy? I need isolation, and there have been reports the ATE bizzarely doesn't seal well. How is the ANV for rock music?


 
 Sorry I missed Your question. Will try to give an answer.
 I do find ED9 littlebit less detailed because like I said before:


> ATE has better balanced/neutral (with tinybit warmth) sound signature, separation (especially in width), transparency, imaging and soundstage... this all results overall better details.


 
 For me details don`t mean only high frequency range clarity and "brightness". Yes, I agree that clearer/brighter highs usually bring "more" details but it can also take away some attention from mid and low-range details and naturality. Details also need things like separation, transparency, imaging and soundstage to "come through" music and that`s the main part where I find ATE superior to ED9. For example ED9 soundstage is littlebit pulled back and narrow compared to ATE which makes some sounds/instruments somewhat "run into eachother" and thus details get "disturbed". I`m not talking here about huge difference/gap (never was) against ED9 but all those things considered ATE translates to overall better balanced/neutral, detailed, natural, dynamic and musical IEM, for me at least.
 If someone is viewing things only from details aspect, then ANV is superior to both, ATE and ED9.
  
 About classical & rock music... big orchestral classical and such should benefit from ATE soundstage and imaging. For fewer instruments and more "intimate" classical ANV is probably better. ANV soundstage is quite big but more focused/foward about "closer" placing solo instruments/vocal. Like I have said previously, ANV suits better for instrumental/vocal.
  
 For rock (depends what rock genre exactly You mean about it), I think ATE suits better but this is just me, with ANV I feel sometimes guitars "hurting" my ears (too inside headstage) but I`m sensitive to highs and that affects my opinion. For oldschool rock (intimate and not so good mastering) I might even prefer GR but that`s again just my taste.
 For progressive rock (with lot of instruments and details) I definitely prefer ATE over others because of larger soundstage (more out of headstage) and better separation/transparency/imaging.
  
 And do consider my source gear sound signature along with this subjective opinion - it is very neutral, with quite huge and open/airy sounding soundstage but with little hint of warmth which makes it natural sounding. Both my source gear setups are modified/upgraded to achieve better transparency, separation, imaging, neutrality and soundstage.
  
 Also consider that ATE is quite tip sensitive.
  
 IMHSO


----------



## HairyHeadMara

Does anyone know where can I get a pair of ED9's brass nozzles? I found that they are sound very good with KZ GR as well so I need an extra pair for my GR.

Thanks


----------



## hoshiyomi

Just received my ATE, however there is obvious QC issue with my pair, and there is little to no bass response on the right channel. Just messaged KZ official store and we'll see how this is resolved...
  
 Otherwise the sound quality is quite impressive. Oh well.


----------



## CoiL

hoshiyomi ,did You check if there are breathing holes on both sides on the neck of nozzle?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/4740#post_11708241


----------



## hoshiyomi

Yes the vents are both there, but they are blocked to different degrees. (right side is leaky)
  
 I taped both side up and the bass response is now pretty much even, however this way there is obvious driver flex.
 I think I may have to live with blocked ports (and a bit too much bass) with this pair, but I'll probably order another pair and try my luck.


----------



## CoiL

Maybe You can gently scrape away blocking material (with thin drill-bit?) and make the holes even-sized? But firstly wait what the seller says. Probably they will send You replacement pair or refund money and You can still keep the faulty unit You have atm.


----------



## hoshiyomi

coil said:


> Maybe You can gently scrape away blocking material (with thin drill-bit?) and make the holes even-sized? But firstly wait what the seller says. Probably they will send You replacement pair or refund money and You can still keep the faulty unit You have atm.


 
 Since I have the translucent pair, I can kind of see that there is a circular piece of filter on the inside on the port, but I am guessing the adhesive is not well applied on the right side, and therefore is leaky / has a loss in bass response.
  
 I am guessing the only way to apply the filter properly is to have access to the inside, but that doesn't seem possible.


----------



## CoiL

> I am guessing the only way to apply the filter properly is to have access to the inside, but that doesn't seem possible.


 
 Well, it might be possible if You remove nozzle grills (they should come off easily) and use some kind of wire (bent at tip slightly) to pull that filter thingy against body. Driver itself is in "enclosure" so it`s not so prone to damaging. Here`s the pic of my first ATE mod victim:

  
 You can use light-table or power-led headlamp from the other side of body to "enlighten" that "surgery"


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Well, it might be possible if You remove nozzle grills (they should come off easily) and use some kind of wire (bent at tip slightly) to pull that filter thingy against body. Driver itself is in "enclosure" so it`s not so prone to damaging. Here`s the pic of my first ATE mod victim:
> 
> 
> You can use light-table or power-led headlamp from the other side of body to "enlighten" that "surgery"


 
 Man am I glad your not my butcher
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 JK Coil


----------



## JonnyM

CoiL 
 I see that you have the ELE EL-D02 dac, does it sound good with your ED9s? I just ordered ELE EL-D02 and some Panasonic FR caps for it.


----------



## CoiL

Don`t put only FR caps on ELE or it will sound too bright/harsh. I tested many different combinations and FR + SilmicII was best to my ears.
  
 About ED9 + modded ELE... You have to wait littlebit. Tonight after work maybe. I haven`t tried that combination myself also yet.
  
 Btw, next time feel free to ask such off-topic questions by PM.


----------



## tsetse7

twinacstacks said:


> Has anybody tried the Moxpad (X3 and X6) Yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have the Moxpad X3 and they don't get too much love. I definitely like ATE better (with vent and open back mods). The KZ sounds more musical to me than the Moxpad. Compared both using Xduoo X2.


----------



## CoiL

> I definitely like ATE better (with vent and open back mods).


 
 Pics pics pics! I`d like to see other ppl mods too


----------



## gtrx333

coil said:


> Pics pics pics! I`d like to see other ppl mods too


 
 Btw how do you open the casing of the ANV?


----------



## B9Scrambler

gtrx333 said:


> Btw how do you open the casing of the ANV?


 

There is a small vent that you can pry it open from.

Edit: Now with a horrible low quality image! You might be able to see the vent at the bottom there if you look real hard.


----------



## CoiL

Yes, on the edge of aluminium ring there is little "hole". It`s not actually a vent but probably something they use during gluing to hold it in place.
 You can change ANV wearing/enclosure angle to match You ears or wearing style (I set it for wearing over ear).
  
 Harder thing is to open back part of enclosure. My unit was so well sealed that I had to destroy it between turn-wrench, so that shiny g-k logo piece would pop open.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Coil, I must correct an earlier Statement, There are indeed vent holes on My Clear ATEs. I kept searching and under a strong light with a magnifying glass I found them, they really looked like a molding process crease. They are MUCH smaller and less obvious than the Holes in the Silvers. Now, I can see through the body portion of the back to see the driver, etc., but even with a strong light, I am unable to see through just below the Nozzle area where the holes are located to verify if there are filters covering the holes. HOW are you guys viewing this area? I'd try direct sunlight but unfortunately It's been cloudy for at least a week now.
  








 TWIN


----------



## JonnyM

I just made wooden back covers for my ed9. They sound the same as when you have the back covers removed.

  http://i.imgur.com/ou2poI6.jpg


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> Coil, I must correct an earlier Statement, There are indeed vent holes on My Clear ATEs. I kept searching and under a strong light with a magnifying glass I found them, they really looked like a molding process crease. They are MUCH smaller and less obvious than the Holes in the Silvers. Now, I can see through the body portion of the back to see the driver, etc., but even with a strong light, I am unable to see through just below the Nozzle area where the holes are located to verify if there are filters covering the holes. HOW are you guys viewing this area? I'd try direct sunlight but unfortunately It's been cloudy for at least a week now.


 


coil said:


> You can use light-table or power-led headlamp from the other side of body to "enlighten" that "surgery"


 

  
 Here`s another trick for those who are having problem getting very good seal with silicone tips and have some cheap foam tips laying around (probably done before by many): 

 This makes me question why Sony has named their tips hybrid - they aren`t! 
 That`s what I would call hybrid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are like "mushroom" tips and easy to insert and remove


----------



## RedTwilight

So.. After a month and 10 days...



First impressions: 

Wow what are these things??
Are these made of METAL??!

There's pretty much no isolation but that's to be expected due to the open backed nature.

Sound is pretty bright actually but WOW these things sound airy. And the separation is frankly quite amazing. 

What were the recommended eartips for these again?


----------



## Ruben123

redtwilight said:


> So.. After a month and 10 days...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ED3 bright or ANV bright? Still find it confusing about the ANV, some find it bright, others neutral. That' s clearly different and some find the bass excellent, others lacking.
 Confusing hype, those KZs


----------



## Shawn71

ruben123 said:


> ED3 bright or ANV bright? Still find it confusing about the ANV, some find it bright, others neutral. That' s clearly different and some find the bass excellent, others lacking.
> Confusing hype, those KZs


 

 He just posted his ootb impressions on ED9....


----------



## Ruben123

shawn71 said:


> He just posted his ootb impressions on ED9....


 

 I know  More a comment to everyone else concerning ED9s bright sound.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> Still find it confusing about the ANV, some find it bright, others neutral. That' s clearly different and some find the bass excellent, others lacking.


 
 I find nothing confusing about ANV
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 1. ANV is neutral. Period. Haven`t seen anybody saying ANV is bright (at least I don`t recall atm). ED9 contrary can be called bright. But then again, depends which tips and nozzle/filter is being used. 
  
 2. ANV bass is excellent, just sub-bass part may littlebit lack with some music. Bass and sub-bass are different things. When You say just _bass_ You basically point to whole bass FR. Make difference 
 ANV also requires very good fit and seal, which might get sub-bass part also "right".
  
 And lets not forget - source gear plays also important role. And lot of other things...
  
 Best way to know something is just to buy or try it when You have opportunity.


----------



## onraid

coil said:


> I find nothing confusing about ANV
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So, does ANV better than ED9, right?


----------



## CoiL

Sorry but I can`t answer that question. Better how? In what terms? Apples and oranges
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Matter of taste, preference, music, source gear etc. 
 Personally, by analytical SQ... my subjective opinion is that ANV is superior... but... ED9 sounds more musical/fun and easier to listen (if highs aren`t problem or removed by tips/foam mod),
 My recommendation - get both (or ATE also) and find out Yourself which suits Your needs, gear, taste etc.


----------



## onraid

coil said:


> Sorry but I can`t answer that question. Better how? In what terms? Apples and oranges
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I looking headphones for xDuoo x2. I have ED9. which is sibblance with splashy high. But its regulate with EQ and I want more detailed headphones.


----------



## 1clearhead

Wait a minute……I wouldn’t hold the ED10 just to one person’s opinion these sound personally the best in my KZ collection –deep broad bass, luscious mids, vividly clear treble with a mild V shape tilt signature and a spacious and almost transparent soundstage. The detail comes through so crisp, but never harsh knor sibilant. One can understand why they’re mistaken’ as bright, but they truly are not. In my opinion, they are very open sounding as if you’re hearing open vented headphones.
 So far, here’s my top KZ three…..ED10 being my personal best.
 ED10 (with original default tips)
 ED09 (with aftermarket wide-bore tips gold and double-flange tips for brass)
 ATE (with original default tips)
  
  
 .....besides myself, there are very positive feedbacks on the ED10's on the taobao website.


----------



## theuprising

Interesting I think you're the first I've seen that said the ED10 is any good. I think most people discounted them when someone here reached out to KZ and they said their best sounding headphone was the ED9 and the purpose of the ED10 was simply to make a mic model.


----------



## 1clearhead

They're very solid and perform really well. They're also pretty small and fit better in my ears compared to the ED9 and the bigger ATE. I have them for a good 2 to 3 weeks now with plenty of playtime (more or less 50 hours).
  
 .....mine has NO MIC.


----------



## CoiL

> 1. KZ-ED10 (very solid with an excellent wide and open soundstage that *outperforms all my KZ series and most of my IEM collection*


 
 Really? 1st one to say such things about ED10 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


gtrx333 said:


> Okay here are my initial impressions (mind you i'm still a noob at describing sound):
> 
> To my ears, the ED10 sounds mid-centric/bright and fairly cold sounding especially when comparing it to the ATE. It does seem to have quite a large soundstage but I would say it's slightly below that of the ATE. Bass seems to be recessed and there doesn't seem to be much sub-bass. I find the sound to be very similar to the ED9 but without ANY warmth.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very different opinions...


----------



## EISENbricher

Come on people, there's something called personal taste. All should be aware of that, I assume.
  
 Best way to find if the earphone suits to your taste is to demo it yourself, period. A generalized opinion (based on opinion of multiple users' findings) is fine to make rough opinion.
  
 Please refrain from making opinion on earphone that you haven't heard. And if you did, post your findings. Those are real help to potential buyers.
  
 Of course, never assume that your findings will apply to everyone. People will support you without asking if they find your review/opinion in sync with their finding.
  
 There are lot of wild factors like manufacturing variation, source gear, listener's age, genre preferences and more.


----------



## CoiL

Eisen... You have Transformed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I remember You were once also such a "defender" of general popular opinion... now You take things with sense.
  
 I was just noting out how different opinions are atm with ED10. Not judging anything without listening. And I`m off from KZ train anyway...
 Actually I should just shut up and observe


----------



## 1clearhead

Ok, I admit.....I don't have the ANV, but I do carry other balanced IEM's. Though, the ED10's aren't completely balanced, just slightly V shaped, they do have a very open soundstage, different from all the other IEM's I carry. I was also going to wait for others to give there feedback here, but I hesitated with the positive feedback in the taobao website, so I took a chance. In my personal opinion, it paid off.
  
 .....they make my kz-ed sound tiny.


----------



## OctroN

Yesterday i received my clear ATE`s.
  
 I have a question for you guys. I used to run the Xiaomi Pistons 2.0 on a Fiio X1, and i feel like the ATE`s need more power to run, even though they have the same sheet impedance.
  
 For example on a track that i used to run at 60 % volume, now i have to bump it to 75 % - 80 % to listen to like the old headphones.
  
 Did anyone have this problem ?


----------



## 1clearhead

Did you try swapping the default foam tips for some silicone tips? It actually improves the volume.


----------



## CoiL

octron said:


> Yesterday i received my clear ATE`s.
> 
> I have a question for you guys. I used to run the Xiaomi Pistons 2.0 on a Fiio X1, and i feel like the ATE`s need more power to run, even though they have the same sheet impedance.
> 
> ...


 

 It`s totally normal. ATE behaves same on my gear - needs more volume. And if You read some pages back, then ATE actual impedance is ~19-20 Ohm. For example with DX50 I used to listen Piston2 around 188... with ATE it`s around 194.
  


1clearhead said:


> they do have a very open soundstage, different from all the other IEM's I carry.


 
 ATE, ED9 and ANV also have very open soundstage. So far ATE is best in that out of my KZ`s. Sometimes I feel it`s even on par with my Fidelio X1 and desk setup (depends on mastering of course).
 What source gear are You using?


----------



## EISENbricher

Yeah ATEs need more notches of volume compared to P2. But this is really normal. 
  
 They are my fav among KZ. 
  
 I've ordered ED10 already ~ will see once it arrives.


----------



## CoiL

If ED10 drops around 6$ like ED9 did and if eisen/twin/shadow/bs9 give very positive feedback... then I might brake my word and get one more KZ
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 But somehow I doubt it.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> It`s totally normal. ATE behaves same on my gear - needs more volume. And if You read some pages back, then ATE actual impedance is ~19-20 Ohm. For example with DX50 I used to listen Piston2 around 188... with ATE it`s around 194.
> 
> ATE, ED9 and ANV also have very open soundstage. So far ATE is best in that out of my KZ`s. Sometimes I feel it`s even on par with my Fidelio X1 and desk setup (depends on mastering of course).
> *What source gear are You using?*


 
  
 Wow, looking at your profile you have pretty expensive gear and set-up! My gear is more of an average set-up, but with all my EQ's set to "flat"!
  
 I usually run my Ruizu X02 or my ONN Q9 with my Luxpro DS-11 Digital Headphone Amplifier, which has a Sub-bass/Mid-bass tone control. Or, just use my Realtek HD Audio Manager off my computer through the same headphone amplifier (Luxpro DS-11) when listening to either WAV, FLAC, MP3, or just from the Internet.
  
 .....Mind you, all my settings are set to "flat" to know what sound shape I'm hearing from my IEM's.


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for information. That puts things more into perspective
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
About my gear... It`s not expensive actually. What I would note out though is modifications/upgrades that make that gear SQ way above it`s price level and stock SQ.


----------



## dbhai

Has china post really got better suddenly, ordered KZ ATE yesterday from AliExpress (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32350895239.html) and today got my tracking number that too with active tracking

 Hope I get it delivered equally fast now 
  
 By the way, great to be back here, after some long, and great to read the discussion about new KZs


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Thanks for information. That puts things more into perspective
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 True....
  
 What's your best EQ setting? Do you have a preference?


----------



## EISENbricher

dbhai said:


> Has china post really got better suddenly, ordered KZ ATE yesterday from AliExpress (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32350895239.html) and today got my tracking number that too with active tracking
> 
> Hope I get it delivered equally fast now
> 
> By the way, great to be back here, after some long, and great to read the discussion about new KZs


 
 Don't say that... my clear ATEs are sitting at Beijing since more than 1 month now : (
  
 I have really really bad luck with China Post, always delays delivery of my items.


----------



## dbhai

oh man, that is not good, hope you get them soon
  
 I only said that because of seeing such a quick active tracking else it took a week to get tracking active and then more couple of weeks to actually get the product


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> What's your best EQ setting? Do you have a preference?


 
 Let me say it this way... what the heck is EQ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I NEVER use EQ, only pure music as it is. If I would use one, it would be zero, flat, nada. Off setting is best one


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Let me say it this way... what the heck is EQ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol. Thanks, love your comment......I'm with you.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Let me say it this way... what the heck is EQ?  I NEVER use EQ, only pure music as it is. If I would use one, it would be zero, flat, nada. Off setting is best one




Oh man...a good EQ can be pretty handy. Take the SUR s808 for example. Stock tuning is very midbassy heavy. They sound just ok, but really bloated.

Take that midbass out with EQ and you easily have an amazing cheapo iem. Fantastic soundstage, massive juicy bass, wonderful mids. Without EQ they would never show their real potential.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I too, always use a Flat EQ on my Source. That is why I collect various Headphones and Earphones, for THEIR Various EQs.
  
 Example: AKG K701 V.S. Senn. HD600.
  
 Two complete different sound signature/ EQ's.
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

Oh don't hate EQ that much. When you mod any earphone you are basically doing similar thing, EQing by cutting / reshaping FR.
  
 Why people hate EQ is mostly because of implementation of EQ. It can be hardware or software based. Number of EQ algorithms degrade dynamic range and overall SQ just to save some processing power, and battery life. You'll find that on some devices equalizers are beautifully implemented. In my case, I find EQ on XDuoo X2 very good.
  
 With just a few precautions EQ can be used to achieve 'best sound' an earphone would provide with present setup. After all it's your personal taste that matters and not how 'balanced' and 'true to source' an earphone sounds. 
  
 In brief, a good quality EQ can be used to make some final adjustment to the sound to make it more 'likable'. 
  
 I've gone through both phases... loved and hated EQ. Now I use it based on earphone I'm using. This is how I see EQ, let me know your opinions, I'd be glad to know.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Oh man...a good EQ can be pretty handy. Take the SUR s808 for example. Stock tuning is very midbassy heavy. They sound just ok, but really bloated.
> 
> Take that midbass out with EQ and you easily have an amazing cheapo iem. Fantastic soundstage, massive juicy bass, wonderful mids. Without EQ they would never show their real potential.


 
 Or Havi B3 P1. With little increase in warmth they sound better to me! (Since I love warmer sounding phones).


----------



## anticute

Can anyone comment on how the isolation is on ED10? It should be better than ED9 because of the design, but then again, I wrongly expected good isolation from ATE too..


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Oh don't hate EQ that much. When you mod any earphone you are basically doing similar thing, EQing by cutting / reshaping FR.
> 
> Why people hate EQ is mostly because of implementation of EQ. It can be hardware or software based. Number of EQ algorithms degrade dynamic range and overall SQ just to save some processing power, and battery life. You'll find that on some devices equalizers are beautifully implemented. In my case, I find EQ on XDuoo X2 very good.
> 
> ...




I completely agree. Most of my head/earphones are used EQ free, but some really benefit from a few minor tweaks here and there. EQ can be a great tool if implemented correctly.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> I completely agree. Most of my head/earphones are used EQ free, but some really benefit from a few minor tweaks here and there. EQ can be a great tool if implemented correctly.


 
 Yup : )   

 I don't say forcefully use EQ, but don't shy away from trying it! Might worth a try in some combinations.


----------



## robervaul

*ED10*
 $8,99

 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html


----------



## 1clearhead

anticute said:


> Can anyone comment on how the isolation is on ED10? It should be better than ED9 because of the design, but then again, I wrongly expected good isolation from ATE too..


 
  
 They isolate really well for my medium size tip ears. I only had wished that besides the medium blue spiral tips they provided they would have threw in some small and large blue spirals as well. So, mine fits very well with the medium size spiral tips.


----------



## sbose

> *EISENbricher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 
 just received my ED9.
 i am currently paired it with the clip.i am currently hearing boom type of bass not thurd type so bass is not focused now.
 what do you think of ATE?


----------



## OctroN

Sent an order for the ed10's posted above. The seller is new, hope they aren't fake 

Is there any way to safely remove the weights from the cable of the ATE ?


----------



## Sopp

I could not get good seal using default and Sony Hybrid tips. Spinfit tips do a good job with ED10.


----------



## JonnyM

sopp said:


> I could not get good seal using default and Sony Hybrid tips. Spinfit tips do a good job with ED10.


 
 Damn they look good! What are they made of?


----------



## 1clearhead

sopp said:


> I could not get good seal using default and Sony Hybrid tips. Spinfit tips do a good job with ED10.


 
  
 You can always get the larger blue wide-bore spiral tips by checking out the link below.....
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20150702065456&SearchText=kz+ear+tips
  
 or
  
http://taiwan.tmall.com/item/44449561820.htm?spm=a220o.1000855.0.0.yDfkKz&id=44449561820&abbucket=_AB-M72_B12&acm=03066.1003.1.291486&aldid=pFrK7bGq&abtest=_AB-LR72-PR72&scm=1003.1.03066.13_44449561820_291486&pos=1&skuId=80851309137
  
 .....at least you know they are still the original default tips, but larger to give you the best fit.


----------



## CoiL

I think I have to get myself some spinfits. Already by the look at pics I can tell those fit me very well. Also kind of "mushroom" type like my modded ED9-hybrids. 
  
 Just received some ultra soft triple-flange tips and made some of them into two-flanges. Will compare them later. So far, by initial impressions, I would say medium triple flanges suit with ATE very good. Will test also on ANV... that`s why I actually bought them. Here`s the place I bought them: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281672238091?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=580677706162&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I took "clear" version. They seem to be softest out of them.
  
 Recommended buy!


----------



## Grayson73

My friend has Piston 2 and it broke.  Is there a KZ IEM for the same price or less with equal bass quantity that is better, or should he buy another Piston 2?


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> My friend has Piston 2 and it broke.  Is there a KZ IEM for the same price or less with equal bass quantity that is better, or should he buy another Piston 2?



ED8m. Has deep, thundering bass to offer. Highs are nice and crisp too. Besides providing ample bass, the bass quality is more organic than P2. Weight is an issue but after some use its easy to get accustomed with it. ED8m can easily be worn around the ears and actually more comfortable that way imo...


----------



## Grayson73

eisenbricher said:


> ED8m. Has deep, thundering bass to offer. Highs are nice and crisp too. Besides providing ample bass, the bass quality is more organic than P2. Weight is an issue but after some use its easy to get accustomed with it. ED8m can easily be worn around the ears and actually more comfortable that way imo...


 
 Thanks, but he doesn't want around the ears; only straight down.


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> Thanks, but he doesn't want around the ears; only straight down.


 
 It's straight down only... I just suggested that wearing it around the ear is also possible and is comfortable. Take a look at product page and see if it interests you. From the KZ inventory I personally own, I'd suggest ED8m as a good alternative for any Piston 2 lover.


----------



## robervaul

sopp said:


> I could not get good seal using default and Sony Hybrid tips. Spinfit tips do a good job with ED10.


 

*KZC06*






_Any Resemblance is Purely Coincidental_?


----------



## Grayson73

Does anyone know where to buy KZ IEMs locally in China?  He's visiting Beijing, Jingmen, Wuhan.


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> I think I have to get myself some spinfits. Already by the look at pics I can tell those fit me very well. Also kind of "mushroom" type like my modded ED9-hybrids.
> 
> Just received some ultra soft triple-flange tips and made some of them into two-flanges. Will compare them later. So far, by initial impressions, I would say medium triple flanges suit with ATE very good. Will test also on ANV... that`s why I actually bought them. Here`s the place I bought them: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281672238091?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=580677706162&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 
 Neither triple or bi-flange, shorter or longer configuration (cut neck) doesn`t have any SQ (sub-bass) improvement over ED9 medium grey silicone tips with ANV to my ears.
 Back to nozzle-mod "drawing board". But those triple-flanges are nevertheless very good for other IEM`s .


----------



## 1clearhead

grayson73 said:


> Does anyone know where to buy KZ IEMs locally in China?  He's visiting Beijing, Jingmen, Wuhan.


 
  
 If he visits Guandong he can try any of the cities from their; Shenzhen (electronics capital of China), Guanzhou, Hong Kong, Macau, or other surrounding cities in Guandong. If he's in any other cities like Beijing he can get someone to order them through taobao website and receive them around 3 days, shipped!


----------



## tsetse7

coil said:


> Pics pics pics! I`d like to see other ppl mods too


 

 KZ ATE clear Openback mod


----------



## RedTwilight

tsetse7 said:


> KZ ATE clear Openback mod


 
  
 Any changes in the sound?


----------



## tsetse7

redtwilight said:


> Any changes in the sound?


 
 In fact I performed multiple mods, like removing the mesh filter, blocking the vents and opening the back at the same time.
 The most radical was the blocking of the vents that brought back the Bass that was somehow missing from my pair. The open back mod may contribute to more "open" sound but not dramatically so. You can do it, but you may damage your pair in the process. It is more for a cosmetic reason I that performed the mod, and because it is fun.


----------



## CoiL

Very nice tsetse7! Grill-mod improves tinybit clarity and soundstage. With silver ATE it removed "hollowness" and had more effect than with black. Maybe difference in plastic material used or just inconsistent quality.


> The most radical was the blocking of the vents that brought back the *Bass that was somehow missing from my pair.*


 
 Did You try to correcting tiny filters behind vents? Seems to be quality issue with those filters attachment.


----------



## EISENbricher

Found this nice presentation somewhere :  http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jsATpTMrH1g/VOf5xM8pK5I/AAAAAAAABOg/xWcKAeIFGTw/s1600/AG-R1.jpg
  
 I wonder if a simple online template can be made so that anyone can quickly open it, set the bars and post their opinion. I love this... we should gather data for KZ IEMs based on this template.
 Not detailed of course, but fast and intuitive.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Found this nice presentation somewhere :  http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jsATpTMrH1g/VOf5xM8pK5I/AAAAAAAABOg/xWcKAeIFGTw/s1600/AG-R1.jpg
> 
> I wonder if a simple online template can be made so that anyone can quickly open it, set the bars and post their opinion. I love this... we should gather data for KZ IEMs based on this template.
> Not detailed of course, but fast and intuitive.


 
 Good idea Eisen. Maybe do a google docs excel table somehow or something similar where everyone can have access to but filling the table can be only for those who ask permission through head-fi (must be head-fi user)?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Good idea Eisen. Maybe do a google docs excel table somehow or something similar where everyone can have access to but filling the table can be only for those who ask permission through head-fi (must be head-fi user)?



Exactly... Or maybe just fill the result on that site, generate result image and post here.

If anybody know how this can be done, let us know.


----------



## Selenium

Finally got my ATE. I know you guys said they sound good, but they still sound better than I expected. It's like my brain couldn't reconcile what I was reading with the $9 price tag. The long nozzle and my shallow ear canals don't jive though, so the earphones don't sit flush at all, which I don't like. By comparison, the VSD2S is probably the best fitting earphone I have.


----------



## CoiL

Selenium, try lot of different tips with ATE, it`s pretty sensitive to tip rolling and to get great fit+sound takes many tries.


----------



## martino416

$8.09 KZ ED 10
 http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32385014226.html


----------



## leobigfield

Has anyone an advice on how could i fix the ATE bass properly? Just fixing a tape on the outside is not an elegant solution and it keeps coming out and annoying me...


----------



## CoiL

If You like the sound when using tape, then permanent solution - just drop little superglue into hole so it fills.


----------



## SWLIU

I jumped on the KZ bandwagon for one purpose, to find a pair of cheaper earphones that is close to my DUNU Titan 1 SQ-wise so I don't have to carry an expensive pair of earphones and risk breaking it. For this, I am completely satisfied with ED9. I also purchased ATE and ANV, and I am not that impressed by them because I already own VSD3S, ANV16, and T1E, which are not that much more expensive compared to ATE and ANV. So what I am trying to say is ED9 provides a "protection value" of 700% for me (Titan 1 = $105, ED9 = $15) as opposed to others' 200%, approximately. For this I highly recommend ED9.


----------



## leobigfield

coil said:


> If You like the sound when using tape, then permanent solution - just drop little superglue into hole so it fills.




The problem would be the driver flex, no?


----------



## CoiL

leobigfield said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > If You like the sound when using tape, then permanent solution - just drop little superglue into hole so it fills.
> ...


 
 Yes, it can be problem. Another option would be stuffing that hole with some tight fabric material or something like that...
  
 Edit:


Spoiler: Warning: KZ Pr0n vol.2 !



 

  

  

  



 Vol.3 will be ATE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Btw, idk how or what affected it exactly but with this mod I do not need any foams inside brass filter anymore!




 Maybe it was 0.5 Ohm higher impedance cable, fabric+plastic ports or maybe wood. 
  
 Edit: Spoke too soon. Still has littlebit too harsh highs for me with some music but not so much as before mod. Gotta make new and thinner foam filter. Maybe using fabric layer this time.


----------



## anticute

selenium said:


> Finally got my ATE. I know you guys said they sound good, but they still sound better than I expected. It's like my brain couldn't reconcile what I was reading with the $9 price tag. The long nozzle and my shallow ear canals don't jive though, so the earphones don't sit flush at all, which I don't like. By comparison, the VSD2S is probably the best fitting earphone I have.


 
 Exactly the same for me. I've tried various tips, and I can get a good seal, but somehow it feels like the body of the IEM is still sticking out a bit. It's especially noticable if I try to lay down with them, they push too far.. I've even pondered trying to cut the nozzle a bit on one of my pairs, but then again, it's not reversible, so I might just end up ruining them..


----------



## leobigfield

coil said:


> Yes, it can be problem. Another option would be stuffing that hole with some tight fabric material or something like that...




Thanks for the insight. I'll try to figure something.


----------



## SWLIU

Just received ED10 today and really enjoy it. I have tried it with edm, rock, and folk, and surprisingly it handles all of them pretty well. I am using Comply T400 eartips and they provide really good seal and bass extension is amazing. The comfort is better than other KZ headphones because of the small size and light weight.

BTW, according to KZ official description of ED10, they produced only one batch of ED10s. So if you are interested (or intrigued), act fast.


----------



## 1clearhead

swliu said:


> Just received ED10 today and really enjoy it. I have tried it with edm, rock, and folk, and surprisingly it handles all of them pretty well. I am using Comply T400 eartips and they provide really good seal and bass extension is amazing. The comfort is better than other KZ headphones because of the small size and light weight.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, according to KZ official description of ED10, they produced only one batch of ED10s. *So if you are interested (or intrigued), act fast*.






 


That's why I bought "two".....they are just that good!


 


At first I was skeptical and bought one because they were being praised as "top tier" on the taobao website. Than, after realizing how good they really were after listening to them, I jumped on a second pair! So, for those that doubt their quality and sound won't benefit in your KZ collection, think again! They might be for a limited time and you may lose this opportunity as one of your "top ten" to your KZ collection.


 


Cheers! SWLIU


----------



## fullmoon280

Hi, im currently looking for a iem to upgrade from my xiaomi piston 2.1's. I've found a few iems that intereste me such as the ttpod t1-e and the soundmagic e80. I was wondering which kz model i should consider. A few that i saw were the anv,ed9,se,ate. How would these compare to the ttpod t1-e and soundmagic e80 for classical,opera,symphonies,kpop,jpop(i also listen to pretty much every other genre but these are the ones i listen to 70% of the time). Also how does the build quality compare to the two iems i mentioned.


----------



## 1clearhead

fullmoon280 said:


> Hi, im currently looking for a iem to upgrade from my xiaomi piston 2.1's. I've found a few iems that intereste me such as the ttpod t1-e and the soundmagic e80. I was wondering which kz model i should consider. A few that i saw were the anv,ed9,se,ate. How would these compare to the ttpod t1-e and soundmagic e80 for classical,opera,symphonies,kpop,jpop(i also listen to pretty much every other genre but these are the ones i listen to 70% of the time). Also how does the build quality compare to the two iems i mentioned.


 
  
 Easy.....go for the *ED10*
  
_-Limited to a certain stock and may be the best KZ ever!_


----------



## SWLIU

fullmoon280 said:


> Hi, im currently looking for a iem to upgrade from my xiaomi piston 2.1's. I've found a few iems that intereste me such as the ttpod t1-e and the soundmagic e80. I was wondering which kz model i should consider. A few that i saw were the anv,ed9,se,ate. How would these compare to the ttpod t1-e and soundmagic e80 for classical,opera,symphonies,kpop,jpop(i also listen to pretty much every other genre but these are the ones i listen to 70% of the time). Also how does the build quality compare to the two iems i mentioned.




I recently purchased ED9, ATE, ANV, and ED10 and own T1E for a long time. SQ wise, ATE and ED10 have the ample bass that you may like. I was not impressed by T1E until I put Comply tips on it. Since you are upgrading from P2, I'd recommend ED10. I have comfort issues with ATE as it is huge, kind of hanging outside the ear.

BTW I also own P3. It is very different than P2 so you may not like it.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> fullmoon280 said:
> 
> 
> > ...anv,ed9,se,ate. How would these compare to the *ttpod t1-e and soundmagic e80* for *classical,opera,symphonies,kpop,jpop*(i also listen to pretty much every other genre but these are the ones i listen to 70% of the time). Also *how does the build quality* compare to the two iems i mentioned.
> ...


 
 Easy? Why?
 What aspects are better or same compared to those IEMs?
 Do You own ttpod t1-e and soundmagic e80 to compare with ED10?
 What are differences against ATE, ANV & ED9 ? 
 What source gear was used to compare?
 etc.
  
 Just some questions. I don`t usually follow such hype where no comparisons and sound details haven`t been described.
 So far I have only seen few ppl post positive feedback with no detailed SQ description and it opposites to another "older" member impressions who gave littlebit more information.
  
 Another thing - I for example, don`t like to use foam tips. How are they with different silicones?
  
 Don`t take this bad way, not saying anything bad about "promoting" ED10 but more information would be welcome


----------



## theuprising

There have been several build quality complaints about the TTPOD t1e, while KZ iems are built like a tank for 1/3rd the price.
  
 For classical, the t1e is alright, nothing amazing in terms of soundstage, timbre, or airiness. Its a V shaped headphone so its more made for pop, edm, and other electronic genres.
  
 Basically, the T1e are similar to your pistons, though not AS v shaped and of higher quality.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Easy? Why?
> 
> 
> What aspects are better or same compared to those IEMs?
> ...






 


Your probably right Coil, I compared them to certain IEM's, not actually all the KZ's per say. Though, I know your very passionate of the ATE's, I am too! They are top's for me, as well. What I can best say is that I compared it to all my IEM's in my "profile" (just click on my user name) and you'll have an idea where this leads to my personal picks.


 


.....I'm only saying they're are that good not to pass-up. :etysmile:


----------



## SWLIU

Even though I enjoy the sound quality of ATE, its around-the-ear design and large size make me uncomfortable wearing it for a long time. Personally comfort is as important as sound quality (my favorite headphones are SONY MA900). ED10 scores big in comfort compared to ATE and they both sound warm to me (I still rate ED9 over both of them as I prefer wide soundstage and precise position over other sound qualities).


----------



## tsetse7

swliu said:


> Even though I enjoy the sound quality of ATE, its around-the-ear design and large size make me uncomfortable wearing it for a long time. Personally comfort is as important as sound quality (my favorite headphones are SONY MA900). ED10 scores big in comfort compared to ATE and they both sound warm to me (I still rate ED9 over both of them as I prefer wide soundstage and precise position over other sound qualities).


 
 I received ED9 yesterday and I can hear greater bandwidth with ED9 over ATE. In fact, and this is only my ATE pair, and MY hearing and my gears etc... I can hear a little peak at 8-9Khz then a rapid roll-off of the HF after 11Khz. I know it is a little peak at that frequency because I had this problem with a 4inch Full range driver with that peak and it bothered me alot before I added a notch filter and damping on that specific driver.
 On the subject of different opinion on "same" KZ models, I think, of course Source, Hardware count, having a good seal counts, but  hearing bandwidth/ability also count. I had a friend that could only hear up to 12Khz. Needless to say that his preference differ greatly from mine. I can only hear up to 16500Hz. Another friend would absolutely boost the midrange max for everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Another example that baffled me was when I asked my wife to try my Sony MH1c, which I consider a very good sounding pair, if not my best sounding one... she said... this really sound like ****. This compared to a very cheap Samsung "earphone" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Then I realized that she had a seal problem with the medium tip. She was hearing no bass because of that.
  
 All I say is that I prefer ED9 over ATE on my stuff, because I can hear more bandwidth and more details over ATE, but I usually make opinions in the first minutes of listening to new hardware and rarely change particularly in-ear and headphone. Tonally I have not experienced burn-in change in in-ear/headphone with use. Tonally I did experience change with paper cone drivers, where the spider loosen over time and lowers the Fs


----------



## CoiL

swliu said:


> ED10 scores big in comfort compared to ATE and they both sound warm to me (I still rate ED9 over both of them as I prefer wide soundstage and precise position over other sound qualities).


 
 ED10 comfort would be great for me too probably but then again ATE fits perfect also (and I mean really great). Littlebit warm sound I also like (I`m sensitive to highs)... but now the third part - "wide soundstage" - ATE has wider soundstage and better imaging/separation than ED9 ...with my gear, to my ears
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will wait some more feedback before jumping on ED10.


----------



## nhlean96

Hi, I'm planning to buy KZ ANV and KZ ATE. I' ve read lots of good feedbacks about KZ ATE, I mostly listens to Metal and Rock (which require fast, punchy bass), EDM, a little Vocal (Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, ...). I'm going to buy ATE for pop, EDM and vocal, .... I don't know if the ANV is suitable for Metal, Rock, ... I've heard some guys here said that ANV was neutral, punchy, ... BTW, this thread is growing fast, more than 300 pages after 1 year.


----------



## hoshiyomi

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-ANV-Grade-Fever-Linear-Equalizer-Ear-Earphones-Monitor-Headphones-Perfect-Sound-Dynamic-Structure/32317811425.html?spm=2114.32010308.4.2.DIOdZW
 KZ ANV for $10.35, good price?


----------



## CoiL

Around 10$ is lowest proce I`ve seen, so yeah, it`s good price.


----------



## Shadowsora

Sigh, wanted ED10 but here in Greece we have capital controls and paypal/paysafe abandonded us until the problems are resolved.
 Great


----------



## chavez

shadowsora said:


> Sigh, wanted ED10 but here in Greece we have capital controls and paypal/paysafe abandonded us until the problems are resolved.
> Great


 
  
 Lel,get rekt mate.Stay strong my Orthodox brother,I hear so much things on the news about you.


----------



## CoiL

@Shadowsora ,when You do get them, please share impressions. I know You have similar hearing/taste to me and it would be helpful


----------



## martino416

Have 2 ATE's on the way , 1 ANV and 1 ED10. Hopefully the ATE's do have a wider soundstage compared to my ED9s with brass.


----------



## gtrx333

Hello all, been busy over the last week. I just wanted to clear up any confusion regarding the sound of the ED10 in my initial impression. The impression that 1clearhead posted, I largely agree with, like the sound signature. Where my opinion differs slightly is with regards to the soundstage. Maybe I am too cautious of saying something has a wide soundstage (as everything seems to have a wide soundstage) but the reason why I feel this is because when listening to OST/orchestra type music,I feel the ED10 doesn't sound as large as the ATE or ED9. It's by no means bad (as suggested by my initial impressions) and I could agree to the statement that it is good, but for me, it's not as good as the other two. 
  
 I do think they sound very good, but I feel they have a more fun sound to them and excel with pop and other songs featuring bass. But for them to excel in OST music, i think they could benefit from a slightly more open sound.
  
 The comfort is very good, the slimmer profile and diameter is spot-on. The wings/fins on the sides of the barrel detract away from the comfort for me a little but other than that they are great.
  
 Apologies for any confusion.


----------



## chavez

Ordered ED10 with a friend. Couldnt decide between ATE and ED9.


----------



## yangian

After a little burning and sat down to listen to ATE and ED9, I still prefer ED9 a little bit, but I only listen to classical. Both noddles sound little difference to me. Bronze a little better. ATEs are too smooth to me, lack passion when listening to symphonies. Details are on par. Bass is tighter and excited on ED9, tremble is brighter on ED9, middle is more intimate on ED9. Soundstage is a little bit larger on ATE, no much. Wearing is boring on ATE and so eay on ED9, though I have no any comfort problem with ATE.


----------



## 1clearhead

gtrx333 said:


> Hello all, been busy over the last week. I just wanted to clear up any confusion regarding the sound of the ED10 in my initial impression. The impression that 1clearhead posted, I largely agree with, like the sound signature. Where my opinion differs slightly is with regards to the soundstage. Maybe I am too cautious of saying something has a wide soundstage (as everything seems to have a wide soundstage) but the reason why I feel this is because when listening to OST/orchestra type music,I feel the ED10 doesn't sound as large as the ATE or ED9. It's by no means bad (as suggested by my initial impressions) and I could agree to the statement that it is good, but for me, it's not as good as the other two.
> 
> I do think they sound very good, but I feel they have a more fun sound to them and excel with pop and other songs featuring bass. But for them to excel in OST music, i think they could benefit from a slightly more open sound.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your further info on the ED10. Before I purchased these I also wondered why they had this slight ear- shaped configuration at the end. Then, I realized they probably were their to stop the IEM from further entering the ear canal, since they're so compact and small.
  
 In the end, I really do enjoy the slight different signatures of my top three _-ED10, ED9, and ATE_. Many of my friends can't understand how KZ packs a punch for as little as having lunch.


----------



## gtrx333

1clearhead said:


> Thanks for your further info on the ED10. Before I purchased these I also wondered why they had this slight ear- shaped configuration at the end. Then, I realized they probably were their to stop the IEM from further entering the ear canal, since they're so compact and small.
> 
> In the end, I really do enjoy the slight different signatures of my top three _-ED10, ED9, and ATE_. Many of my friends can't understand how KZ packs a punch for as little as having lunch.


 
 I can agree with you there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I look forward to trying all the new stuff KZ brings.


----------



## SWLIU

I just did an ABCD test (if such thing exists) with ED9, ATE, ANV, and ED10. The source was 320kbps mp3 -> foobar2000 -> monoprice desktop amp. I can say they all sound wonderful, just slight difference in SQ. Which is best is really come down to personal preference. I prefer ED9 with brass nozzles for its clarity and small form factor.


----------



## sas69

I just received my ATE's today.
 My impression so far is that the sound is very clear. The separation between the different instruments is excellent. The sound stage is a bit bigger compared to my Sony MH1c's. The cable on mine is not grabby at all.
 All day I've been listening to songs from Thomas Bergersen and Two Steps From Hell and I can hear every little detail in the songs which is exceptional for a headset for only $9.
 For the past month I've been listening to a pair of Sony MH1c's and I tried to compare them with my new ATE's. The sound from both of them is very good. The bass on the MH1c's is somehow deeper and I find ATE's a little bit brighter than the MH1c's.
 Initially I bought the ATE's for exercise ( running, jumping, etc.. ) and with the foam tips I can say that they are doing a pretty good job. 
 I don't find the MH1c's to be very good for sports activities because they tend to fall off my ears quite often.
 The gear that I'm using is my laptop and my phone and I know that the sound could get a bit better with an amp but I'm quite satisfied with the way it is now.
 I'm going to burn them for 50-100 hours and than I can give you my thoughts about this great headphones.


----------



## Ulti

robervaul said:


> *ED10*
> $8,99
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html


 
 Thanks for that, I've taken the plunge! Are the ED10s designed to be worn over ear or straight down or can they be worn both ways? I've got the ATE but due to the fit the isolation is horrible so I don't really use them much even though their sound quality is really good.


----------



## leobigfield

1clearhead said:


> Thanks for your further info on the ED10. Before I purchased these I also wondered why they had this slight ear- shaped configuration at the end. Then, I realized they probably were their to stop the IEM from further entering the ear canal, since they're so compact and small.
> 
> In the end, I really do enjoy the slight different signatures of my top three _-ED10, ED9, and ATE_. Many of my friends can't understand how *KZ packs a punch for as little as having lunch.*


 
  
 That could be the KZ moto LOL


----------



## TwinACStacks

So far i have the KZ ED8, ED9, ATE Silver, ATE Clear, CM9, ANV, and EDSE. On the Way are Micro Ring, and ED10.
  
 The ones I gravitate to the most are the EDSE. Mine sound awesome. Using medium Sony hybrids (Turquoise).
  
 Perfect listening mix to me. Coincidentally the only Pair I own with a built in Mic.
  








 TWIN


----------



## anticute

twinacstacks said:


> So far i have the KZ ED8, ED9, ATE Silver, ATE Clear, CM9, ANV, and EDSE. On the Way are Micro Ring, and ED10.
> 
> The ones I gravitate to the most are the EDSE. Mine sound awesome. Using medium Sony hybrids (Turquoise).
> 
> ...


 
 I have ANV and ED10 on the way, it's going to be interesting to compare them to ED9 and ATE..


----------



## TwinACStacks

I Really love the ANV. The only reason it isn't my favorite is that it becomes uncomfortable in my ear after a short while. Other than that It's performance is Stellar. The EDSE is very close and is superbly comfortable to wear. ED9 Is very good but being quite bright, it is fatiguing to listen to for an extended period. The ATE is Very good but a PIA to wear on the fly as it is over the Ear. I'm more likely to wear the ATEs around the House rather than driving.
  








 TWIN


----------



## nhlean96

The ATE and ANV are on the way to me. I'm looking foward to try them


----------



## anxonic

Guys, any idea which of the KZs are close to the sound signature of the Vsonic VSD1 or Brainwavz S1?


----------



## peter123

fullmoon280 said:


> Hi, im currently looking for a iem to upgrade from my xiaomi piston 2.1's. I've found a few iems that intereste me such as the ttpod t1-e and the soundmagic e80. I was wondering which kz model i should consider. A few that i saw were the anv,ed9,se,ate. How would these compare to the ttpod t1-e and soundmagic e80 for classical,opera,symphonies,kpop,jpop(i also listen to pretty much every other genre but these are the ones i listen to 70% of the time). Also how does the build quality compare to the two iems i mentioned.




Although the KZ offerings are great for their typically $10 price I found the E80's to easily outperform all of the KZ offerings I've tried so far.

They'll have a lot less midbass than the Pistons though but subbass extension is very good as well as the overall bass quality. 

If you're in the US and can pick them up for $50 I'd say it's a no brainer. I paid $70 for my pair and still consider them excellent value .


----------



## slowpickr

peter123 said:


> Although the KZ offerings are great for their typically $10 price I found the E80's to easily outperform all of the KZ offerings I've tried so far.
> 
> They'll have a lot less midbass than the Pistons though but subbass extension is very good as well as the overall bass quality.
> 
> If you're in the US and can pick them up for $50 I'd say it's a no brainer. I paid $70 for my pair and still consider them excellent value .




You post this on the KZ thread... blasphemy!!!


----------



## 1clearhead

peter123 said:


> Although the KZ offerings are great for their typically $10 price I found the E80's to easily outperform *all of the KZ offerings I've tried so far*.
> 
> They'll have a lot less midbass than the Pistons though but subbass extension is very good as well as the overall bass quality.
> 
> If you're in the US and can pick them up for $50 I'd say it's a no brainer. I paid $70 for my pair and still consider them excellent value .


 
  
 You should really add to your collection the latest top 3 KZ's, which includes the latest ED10. They have unique signatures and can weigh-in against the competition.


----------



## peter123

slowpickr said:


> You post this on the KZ thread... blasphemy!!!




Lol, yeah I'm crazy 




1clearhead said:


> You should really add to your collection the latest top 3 KZ's, which includes the latest ED10. They have unique signatures and can weigh-in against the competition.




I already own the ATE and ED9. 

I certainly don't think that KZ are bad , they're probably the best value one could get for really cheap but I'm crazy enough to think that better IEM's does exist and that you don't have to pay a fortune to get them


----------



## TwinACStacks

Peter, I found the E80's on Ali for $68 but ONLY available in Red from Seller. If you want Gray or Gold-ish they are $85 from different sellers. The Reds are on Ebay for $75. Not available on Amazon Yet.
  
 Before I spend THAT much on earphones, (I'm spoiled by KZ prices), I will wait for My Trinity Deltas and My Flare Audio R2As to get here. Which I'm assuming are a HUGE step up from KZ's or Soundmagics.
  








 TWIN


----------



## 1clearhead

peter123 said:


> Lol, yeah I'm crazy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good to hear!
  
 Can you give us some more details on the differences between each set _-bass, mids, highs and soundstage_? And what does the E80 outshine the ATE's and the KD9 on?
  
 Some picks would be really nice......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Finally, are you planning to get the ED10's? I would really love to see this comparison.


----------



## peter123

1clearhead said:


> Good to hear!
> 
> Can you give us some more details on the differences between each set _-bass, mids, highs and soundstage_? And what does the E80 outshine the ATE's and the KD9 on?
> 
> ...




Not at the moment, I'm on holiday for the next three weeks and only brought the ckr10, e80 and vsd2s 

Tbh the ED9 is the only KZ IEM that I feel belong in the $50-100 tier. That still doesn't mean that I don't appreciate some of the others and consider them amazing value at their (usually) $10 price.


----------



## CoiL

peter123 said:


> Tbh the ED9 is the only KZ IEM that I feel belong in the $50-100 tier.


 
 Meh? Really? M`kay... I contrary find ATE and ANV SQ better in many aspects than ED9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well... apples & oranges, nothing wrong with different opinions


----------



## peter123

coil said:


> Meh? Really? M`kay... I contrary find ATE and ANV SQ better in many aspects than ED9 :rolleyes:  Well... apples & oranges, nothing wrong with different opinions




Yep I agree. Different strokes for different folks. That's part of what makes this hobby so interesting


----------



## dilidani

Among ED9-ED10-ATE which is the best for electronic music?


----------



## gtrx333

twinacstacks said:


> Peter, I found the E80's on Ali for $68 but ONLY available in Red from Seller. If you want Gray or Gold-ish they are $85 from different sellers. The Reds are on Ebay for $75. Not available on Amazon Yet.
> 
> Before I spend THAT much on earphones, (I'm spoiled by KZ prices), I will wait for My Trinity Deltas and My Flare Audio R2As to get here. Which I'm assuming are a HUGE step up from KZ's or Soundmagics.
> 
> ...


 
  I'm waiting on those too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I hoping to get maybe one or two more KZ then take a long iem buying "holiday"


----------



## gtrx333

dilidani said:


> Among ED9-ED10-ATE which is the best for electronic music?


 
 Probably the ED10, has quite a bit of detailed bass.


----------



## 1clearhead

dilidani said:


> Among ED9-ED10-ATE which is the best for electronic music?


 

 Is hard to say.....all 3 play electronic music really well. But, If your only buying one, I would pick ED9 only because it provides 2 different tunable sound signatures.
  
 Heck, just buy all three.....that's what most of us did here.


----------



## TwinACStacks

1clearhead said:


> Is hard to say.....all 3 play electronic music really well. But, If your only buying one, I would pick ED9 only because it provides 2 different tunable sound signatures.
> 
> Heck, just buy all three.....that's what most of us did here.


 





 +1 AFAIK ALL the KZ's do Electronic music quite well. They have a lot of available Bass in their EQs.
  








 TWIN


----------



## robervaul

My girlfriend created a faceplate for her KZ ATE using nail stickers.  Wasn't it a good idea?


----------



## 1clearhead

robervaul said:


> My girlfriend created a faceplate for her KZ ATE using nail stickers.  Wasn't it a good idea?


 

 Wow! She probably just created the ever first in-ear designer earrings! That looks really unique!
  
 .....You better get that patented, while you got a chance!


----------



## theuprising

Btw the KZ ED9s are back on Amazon/Amazon Prime atm with limited quantities. I made sure I snagged a pair first lol. So if you don't want to wait a month or 2, this is your chance.


----------



## nhlean96

I can't decide what to buy between ED10 and ATE, I primarily listens to Pop and Vocal. Some guys here said that the ATE is Detailed and smooth, but I don't know if the ED10 could compare to ATE ?


----------



## sas69

nhlean96 said:


> I can't decide what to buy between ED10 and ATE, I primarily listens to Pop and Vocal. Some guys here said that the ATE is Detailed and smooth, but I don't know if the ED10 could compare to ATE ?




I've never heard the ED10's but I find my ATE's to be really smooth and with great details. I recently compared them with my Sony MH1c's and I said then that I find the base to be a bit flat but I played around with the equalizer and now the base and the whole sound signature is close to the Sony MH1c but I find ATE's to be slightly better in their sound stage and details. The one thing that some people may consider as a drawback is the design of this particular iem which by some people is considered to be uncomfortable.


----------



## anxonic

Noob here. Ordered ED10, ED9 and ATE yesterday via AliExpress. The ED10 and ED9 have been shipped already. Fingers crossed now for China Post to deliver!
  
 I currently own a Vsonic VSD1 and Brainwavz S1. If any of you guys have tried those, could you tell if any of the KZs have a sound signature that is similar to either of those?


----------



## EISENbricher

anxonic said:


> Noob here. Ordered ED10, ED9 and ATE yesterday via AliExpress. The ED10 and ED9 have been shipped already. Fingers crossed now for China Post to deliver!
> 
> I currently own a Vsonic VSD1 and Brainwavz S1. If any of you guys have tried those, could you tell if any of the KZs have a sound signature that is similar to either of those?


 
 Nice decision. My ED10 are on the way while I own ED9, ATE. You'll love the fact that all three have different sound signatures (not heard ED10 personally yet, but an opinion from reviews).


----------



## Horton

robervaul said:


> My girlfriend created a faceplate for her KZ ATE using nail stickers.  Wasn't it a good idea?


 
 The painting is very nice  How about this mod


----------



## 1clearhead

horton said:


> The painting is very nice  How about this mod


 

 Did you just make your ATE's into detachable wire IEM's?......if you did? Very nice!!!


----------



## anxonic

eisenbricher said:


> Nice decision. My ED10 are on the way while I own ED9, ATE. You'll love the fact that all three have different sound signatures (not heard ED10 personally yet, but an opinion from reviews).


 
 Thanks, I hope so too! They were all around or below $10, so it wasn't a hard decision at all. The ATE has also been shipped now. Let's see which of the 3 I get first.


----------



## 1clearhead

I hope everyone here realizes ED10 has small and large tips that are black and different from the blue default wide bore tips that it originally comes with. The small and large tips have narrow bore tips and doesn't help the true potential and soundstage the ED10's dish out.
  
 Here are some picks....
  


  
 ......So, I suggest you do yourself a favor and get all 3 different size blue sets here.
  
 1. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3-Pairs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Tips-Earbuds-Headphones-Eartips/32333783387.html
  
or here.....
  
 2. http://taiwan.tmall.com/item/44449561820.htm?spm=a220o.1000855.0.0.WmsI1A&id=44449561820&abbucket=_AB-M72_B12&acm=03066.1003.1.291486&aldid=4FL74TD9&abtest=_AB-LR72-PR72&scm=1003.1.03066.13_44449561820_291486&pos=1&skuId=80851309137
  
 I ordered extra ones myself and my friend that bought the ED10's benefited from the large blue ones. He claims the medium one's don't give him a complete seal. So, I really suggest if you have to go one size either way, buy the default blue ones in small, or large. You won't regret it!


----------



## SWLIU

1clearhead said:


> I hope everyone here realizes ED10 has small and large tips that are black and different from the blue default wide bore tips that it originally comes with. The small and large tips have narrow bore tips and doesn't help the true potential and soundstage the ED10's dish out.
> 
> Here are some picks....
> 
> ...




I use Comply T400 on all my KZ headphones and never have to worry about the seal.


----------



## Horton

swliu said:


> I use Comply T400 on all my KZ headphones and never have to worry about the seal.


 
  
 I use foam tips, is more comfortable than silicone eartips, How about your eartips, could have a better sound effect or other performance? Does there any good headphone accessories/earpads suggestion.


----------



## 1clearhead

horton said:


> I use foam tips, is more comfortable than silicone eartips, How about your eartips, could have a better sound effect or other performance? Does there any good headphone accessories/earpads suggestion.


 

 I like those white one's.....they look sharp! I mean nice and soft.


----------



## SWLIU

The foam tips bring out a bit more bass in general and on ED9 with brass nozzles they tame the high a bit if you are sensitive to high... With ED10 you will need the cylindrical ones to reach deeper in the ear.


----------



## Grayson73

Do any KZ IEMs fit these requirements:
  
 1.  Has volume control
 2.  Best for EDM and Pop
 3.  At least as much bass as Piston 2


----------



## JonnyM

horton said:


> The painting is very nice  How about this mod


 
 Nice! what connector is that? CRC9?


----------



## B9Scrambler

horton said:


> The painting is very nice  How about this mod


 
 Can't go wrong with this fantastic mod. Well done Horton! Looks really clean


----------



## CoiL

horton said:


> How about this mod


 
 Nice! Though the angle and flexibility/shape of that connector could be better ( for my ear shape at least ). Thought about doing same but going with straight soft-neck version of mmcx connector instead.
  
 Btw, what tips are those? I seem to get very good results with "mushroom" shaped tips like those.


----------



## EISENbricher

horton said:


> The painting is very nice  How about this mod


 
 That looks really awesome!


----------



## Horton

I find a picture at KZ store, does KZ want to make mp3 player? Hi, your headphone still design not good, didn't you know?


----------



## EISENbricher

horton said:


> I find a picture at KZ store, does KZ want to make mp3 player? Hi, your headphone still design not good, didn't you know?


That's something really interesting!


----------



## EarTips

8mm + 6.8mm dual drivers !!!
 looks good


----------



## sodesuka

So it's like a built-in eq/amp? seems to be active, wonder where it's getting its power...


----------



## EarTips

sodesuka said:


> So it's like a built-in eq/amp? seems to be active, wonder where it's getting its power...


 
 Via usb charging


----------



## sodesuka

Interesting, not sure if it won't become cumbersome in the long run, so I hope at least it could run in passive mode. If it's cheap like other KZ IEM (or cheap enough for the quality), then hey, I'm open to new idea like this.


----------



## Shadowsora

Wait, WAT!?
 Dual drivers with built in eq/dac/amp(?) 
 Hmm... it seems very interesting IMO, now i am interested for the price.
 I am almost sure it will be able to run in passive mode as well.


----------



## aspire5550

eartips said:


> 8mm + 6.8mm dual drivers !!!
> looks good



I'll translate the last picture,from left to right,
volume -,volume +, on/off switch,USB charger,LCD,
Next row,
Highs +, highs -,low +, low -,pickup or hangup calls.

Its an dac/amp(not sure) with eq and kz claims to have 2 piece of ic,each ic drives 1 driver. You don't need to worry About how to drive the earphones, they do it for you.(hence why I think it's an amp)
This is interesting.


----------



## EISENbricher

This looks promising. Any price or release date details?


----------



## EarTips

most probably the ICs mentioned are op-amps from Texas Instruments


----------



## CoiL

> 8mm + 6.8mm dual drivers !!!


 
 That`s all I care about. If price is decent, will get it and change cable... not interested in that "player" thingy.


----------



## Horton

eartips said:


> 8mm + 6.8mm dual drivers !!!
> looks good


 
*But the DT5 is also *dual drivers, if this headphone sound could be much MORE better? If 2 in 1 could be better than professional amps & headphone? Why not just choose amps with headphone? I am confused about this design. Hope have a good performance


----------



## tsetse7

This thing is most probably an amp or booster with tone controls (bass/treble) that you plug in a phone or player. Not a DAC as it says usb charger to charge the internal battery. you can see image of smart phone/ tablet and recorder/player to which it may be plugged.


----------



## Makso1

I need to buy some earphones for EDM,house music. Which do you recommend ? ED9 or ED10 ? Maybe EDSE?


----------



## RedTwilight

eartips said:


> 8mm + 6.8mm dual drivers !!!
> looks good


 
  
 This looks pretty good actually! Like Havis with an integrated Fiio E06. Excellent for phones but probably less so for those with DAPs already.


----------



## EarTips

imo, they used "bi-amping" configuration for the dual drivers earpiece


----------



## EarTips

sodesuka said:


> Interesting, not sure if it won't become cumbersome in the long run, so I hope at least it could run in passive mode. If it's cheap like other KZ IEM (or cheap enough for the quality), then hey, I'm open to new idea like this.


 
 not too sure about the passive mode, but for the switch, hopefully it can be used as a "by-pass".
  


shadowsora said:


> Wait, WAT!?
> Dual drivers with built in eq/dac/amp(?)
> Hmm... it seems very interesting IMO, now i am interested for the price.
> I am almost sure it will be able to run in passive mode as well.


 
 with built-in eq/amp more likely, don't think there is a dac...
  


aspire5550 said:


> I'll translate the last picture,from left to right,
> volume -,volume +, on/off switch,USB charger,LCD,
> Next row,
> Highs +, highs -,low +, low -,pickup or hangup calls.
> ...


 
 thanks
  


eisenbricher said:


> This looks promising. Any price or release date details?


 
 no news atm


----------



## EarTips

coil said:


> > 8mm + 6.8mm dual drivers !!!
> 
> 
> 
> That`s all I care about. If price is decent, will get it and change cable... not interested in that "player" thingy.


 
 looking forward to your modification pictures later
  


horton said:


> *But the DT5 is also *dual drivers, if this headphone sound could be much MORE better? If 2 in 1 could be better than professional amps & headphone? Why not just choose amps with headphone? I am confused about this design. Hope have a good performance


 
 can kz DT5 owners answer this?
  


tsetse7 said:


> This thing is most probably an amp or booster with tone controls (bass/treble) that you plug in a phone or player. Not a DAC as it says usb charger to charge the internal battery. you can see image of smart phone/ tablet and recorder/player to which it may be plugged.


 
  yap
  
 Quote:


redtwilight said:


> This looks pretty good actually! Like Havis with an integrated Fiio E06. Excellent for phones but probably less so for those with DAPs already.


 
 I am concerned about the weight of the "controller/amp"...


----------



## hoshiyomi

Just received the ED9 in the mail, stuffed the bronze filters with extra foam, mark me super impressed, and this is coming from being spoiled by Dunu Titan 1, ZA Tenore, Ety ER4 ...etc

I've been this hobby for well over ten years, and have yet to see a pair of sub 10 IEM punch so much above their price range. There is the common QC issue, as the filter in the nozzle is not fully attached to begin with, but a bit of burnishing with the side of a screw driver and it's back in place. Ended up stuffing low density foam all the way towards the filter to tame the brightness, but plenty detail and control since the simple mod.

Sound signature (after foam stuffing) wise, I find these to resemble the low end of ZA Tenore and the top end of Titan 1, with a more filled in lower mid range than Titan 1. They exhibit slight graininess towards the high end (as in pretty harmless 9k-10k), but the peaks are not too ringy. All in all incredible value and super easy to fine tune.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## kaiteck

Are you there's a dac? Oo I always thought headphone jack can only transmit analog signal


----------



## hoshiyomi

If I had to guess, an ADC to do digital processing, then a DAC back to analog before sending to dual headphone drivers. I would love to see analog high / low shelf in a dual driver bi-amp setup, but I can't quite think of an viable implementation that rely on buttons to control.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## CoiL

hoshiyomi said:


> Just received the ED9 in the mail, stuffed the bronze filters with extra foam, mark me super impressed, and this is coming from being spoiled by Dunu Titan 1, ZA Tenore, Ety ER4 ...etc
> 
> I've been this hobby for well over ten years, and have yet to see a pair of sub 10 IEM punch so much above their price range. There is the common QC issue, as the filter in the nozzle is not fully attached to begin with, but a bit of burnishing with the side of a screw driver and it's back in place. Ended up stuffing low density foam all the way towards the filter to tame the brightness, but plenty detail and control since the simple mod.
> 
> Sound signature (after foam stuffing) wise, I find these to resemble the low end of ZA Tenore and the top end of Titan 1, with a more filled in lower mid range than Titan 1. They exhibit slight graininess towards the high end (as in pretty harmless 9k-10k), but the peaks are not too ringy. All in all incredible value and super easy to fine tune.


 
 Thanks for feedback. Yeah, brass nozzles + proper amount and type of material makes them pretty great


----------



## EarTips

I'm using the kzgr black nozzles on ed9, sounds good to me.


----------



## CoiL

Gr black nozzles made them littlebit too bassy imo. Though, they were newer GR ones with not 100% perfect fit winding to ED9.


----------



## EarTips

lol, that's the kind of sounds i prefer atm.


----------



## 1clearhead

tsetse7 said:


> This thing is most probably an amp or booster with tone controls (bass/treble) that you plug in a phone or player. Not a DAC as it says usb charger to charge the internal battery. you can see image of smart phone/ tablet and recorder/player to which it may be plugged.


 

 +1


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Gr black nozzles made them littlebit too bassy imo. Though, they were newer GR ones with not 100% perfect fit winding to ED9.


 
 Everyone has different sound preference... while considering source gear as one important parameter one should keep in mind that personal taste is even bigger factor.
  


redtwilight said:


> This looks pretty good actually! Like Havis with an integrated Fiio E06. Excellent for phones but probably less so for those with DAPs already.


 
 +1
  
 I wonder how much they are going to charge it, good ol' times of KZ <$10 are likely to be over soon.


----------



## Shawn71

horton said:


> *But the DT5 is also *dual drivers,


 
  
  


eartips said:


> *can kz DT5 owners answer this?*
> 
> I am concerned about the weight of the "controller/amp"...


 
 Yeah, I doubt it.....
  
 It's almost similar to Bose QC20 ANC but in this its just amp with Bass & Treble, mic for answer/hang up calls w/o NC feature and also like FiiO Rocky E02i, smartphone HP amp, so it's much of ultra-portability and so light weight.


----------



## 1clearhead

eisenbricher said:


> Everyone has different sound preference... while considering source gear as one important parameter one should keep in mind that personal taste is even bigger factor.
> 
> +1
> 
> I wonder how much they are going to charge it, good ol' times of KZ <*$10 are likely to be over soon.*


 
  
 Say it ain't so! ......No, this cannot be!   





  
.....life without $10 KZ's


----------



## EarTips

> Yeah, I doubt it.....
> 
> It's almost similar to Bose QC20 ANC but in this its just amp with Bass & Treble, mic for answer/hang up calls w/o NC feature and also like FiiO Rocky E02i, smartphone HP amp, so it's much of ultra-portability and so light weight.


 
 thanks


----------



## leobigfield

1clearhead said:


> Say it ain't so! ......No, this cannot be!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nooo, KZ is one of the main reasons for my 5kg weight loss! Every time i think on having a meal at MacDonald's i just open my smartphone and buy a KZ IEM LOL


----------



## EISENbricher

leobigfield said:


> Nooo, KZ is one of the main reasons for my 5kg weight loss! Every time i think on having a meal at MacDonald's i just open my smartphone and buy a KZ IEM LOL



Lol I'm laughing so much xD nice idea btw


----------



## hoshiyomi

How does one open the back of ED9? I tried a flat screwdriver and a clothespin and so far no luck. Upon further testing there seems to be a driver mounting problem on one channel, I think it should be easily fixable if I can access the back.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## CoiL

Take pliers with flat small tip, grab from the middle of the backplate and just pull, it should come off easily.


> Upon further testing there seems to be a driver mounting problem on one channel, I think it should be easily fixable


 
 Sorry to inform You but I think You can`t fix it - driver is glued deep into body and not removable/moveable.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Let's get back into this ATE thing. Okay, a couple weeks earlier I stated that my OOTB Pair of Clears sounded absolutely the same as my well- broken-in pair of Modded, (Ala' Coil), pair of Silvers....
  
  NOW ADD 200 Hrs. Burn in time and this statement IS NO LONGER TRUE. (Hey I can admit when I'm wrong). The Modded Silvers SLAY the  Unaltered Clears.
  
 OKAY......
  
 So...... I modded the Clears in the same Fashion as the Silvers. There is something Different going on here. Is it possible that they changed the driver specs on the Clears? They are Brighter and do not have the Authoritive BASS that the Silvers have. Don't get me wrong, they have good bass, just not as much or as tight as the Silvers. Coil, you remember me telling you when I first got the Silvers I thought they were Bass Heavy? WELL, They still are. It's more apparent when you compare them directly with the Clears though.
  
 I'm Happy, no real complaints I like BOTH of their sound signatures. It's just weird to me that they shouldn't sound Identical with the same Mods..... Maybe the Difference is in the Housing materials between the Clear and the Solid Plastic Shells? Why did they sound Identical before I burnt the 2nd Pair in? Even weirder....
  
  
 Welcome to my world.
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## RedTwilight

hoshiyomi said:


> Just received the ED9 in the mail, stuffed the bronze filters with extra foam, mark me super impressed, and this is coming from being spoiled by Dunu Titan 1, ZA Tenore, Ety ER4 ...etc
> 
> I've been this hobby for well over ten years, and have yet to see a pair of sub 10 IEM punch so much above their price range. There is the common QC issue, as the filter in the nozzle is not fully attached to begin with, but a bit of burnishing with the side of a screw driver and it's back in place. Ended up stuffing low density foam all the way towards the filter to tame the brightness, but plenty detail and control since the simple mod.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ooh got a photo of the type of foam you used? I'm finding it a tad too bright and thin.
  


eartips said:


> *not too sure about the passive mode, but for the switch, hopefully it can be used as a "by-pass".*
> 
> with built-in eq/amp more likely, don't think there is a dac...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah you're right, just noticed that.


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> Coil, you remember me telling you when I first got the Silvers I thought they were Bass Heavy? WELL, They still are. It's more apparent when you compare them directly with the Clears though.


 
 Did I really say that about silver ATE`s? Will search my posts about silver ones later but I don`t remember saying they were _bass heavy_






> It's just weird to me that they shouldn't sound Identical with the same Mods..... Maybe the Difference is in the Housing materials between the Clear and the Solid Plastic Shells? Why did they sound Identical before I burnt the 2nd Pair in? Even weirder....


 
 I don`t think they have different dirvers/tuning but I do think there is slight difference in sound "hollowness" between shell materials. Clear ATE s don`t have so much "hollowness" as silver ones. That was basically only difference I noticed but this was from psychoacoustic memory and might not be so accurate.
 Have You checked Your ATE breathing holes difference? Aren`t Your silvers holes jammed littlebit and hence the "more bass" feeling? Are Your clear ones breathing hole filters nicely in place?
 Another thing I noticed, that "burning-in" (without listening during process) ATEs with more than average vol. and powerful amp seemed to make things clearer and littlebit more detailed.


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> Did I really say that about silver ATE`s? Will search my posts about silver ones later but I don`t remember saying they were _bass heavy_


 
 @Coil, if i am not wrong what @TwinACstacks meant was he told you that there is a sonic difference (bass in particular) between silver and clear ATEs sometime back with silver ATEs having more bass than clear ones (which he still feels)


----------



## Enuma-elis

Hi, I am thinking about buying ED10/ Ate. I want iem for running, so I'd prefer good seal+isolation+comfort over slightly better sq. Which one would be better for that use (I guess I have medium-large ears). Thnaks.


----------



## TwinACStacks

mebaali said:


> @Coil, if i am not wrong what @TwinACstacks meant was he told you that there is a sonic difference (bass in particular) between silver and clear ATEs sometime back with silver ATEs having more bass than clear ones (which he still feels)


 





 Thanx MeeBee. Hey, looking at your IEM's, may I suggest save your pennies and Invest in a pair of DUNU TITANS, around $115 USD?  DUNU *really* outdid themselves at their pricepoint, (in fact they should be kicking themselves). IMO they are Equal to their old flagship DN2000 and better than their DN1000 and cost way less than either.
  
 You won't regret it.
  
 BTW, before someone brings it up, NO I am not saying they sound better than the NEW DN2000J which I understand is stellar.
  








 TWIN


----------



## aaDee

Received ED9 today. Had to wait for more than a month. I think I'm the last person to receive it from the lot when it was available for $6.13.
Talking about the sound, honestly I wasn't very impressed initially. Found the sound very dry/ cold. Tiny midsand weaker bass. So I kept it on pink noise and frybaby simultaneously for couple of hours. And the sound has changed. I never experienced such a quick change before. I'm using bronze filters with medium sized black tips and playing on Fiio X3ii + Fiio E6 combo.
Now the sound is big, I mean really big. Bass is tighter, mids are forward, highs are clear. Slowly I've started falling in love with them. Definitely one of the best bang for bucks.


----------



## Podster

leobigfield said:


> Nooo, KZ is one of the main reasons for my 5kg weight loss! Every time i think on having a meal at MacDonald's i just open my smartphone and buy a KZ IEM LOL


 
 I luv it Leo, that is friggin hilarious


----------



## EISENbricher

aadee said:


> Received ED9 today. Had to wait for more than a month. I think I'm the last person to receive it from the lot when it was available for $6.13.
> Talking about the sound, honestly I wasn't very impressed initially. Found the sound very dry/ cold. Tiny midsand weaker bass. So I kept it on pink noise and frybaby simultaneously for couple of hours. And the sound has changed. I never experienced such a quick change before. I'm using bronze filters with medium sized black tips and playing on Fiio X3ii + Fiio E6 combo.
> Now the sound is big, I mean really big. Bass is tighter, mids are forward, highs are clear. Slowly I've started falling in love with them. Definitely one of the best bang for bucks.


 
 Wow you purchased X2ii already? How much did it cost? 
 I hope we could meet I want to try it!


----------



## aaDee

eisenbricher said:


> Wow you purchased X2ii already? How much did it cost?
> I hope we could meet I want to try it!


definitely....It costed me rs.13300


----------



## Grayson73

grayson73 said:


> Do any KZ IEMs fit these requirements:
> 
> 1.  Has volume control
> 2.  Best for EDM and Pop
> 3.  At least as much bass as Piston 2


 
 I guess the answer to this is, none?


----------



## B9Scrambler

grayson73 said:


> I guess the answer to this is, none?




Nope. Get the SUR s808 instead, just be prepared to EQ out the midbass because its overwhelming. Once eq'd they're actually quite good.


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> I guess the answer to this is, none?


 
 No KZ has vol control, so yeah no KZ would fit all 3 reqs.


----------



## Arsis

I've spent the last couple of hours with my ED9. This is the first extended listening I've done with them and I have to say that I'm very impressed. My chain today is iTunes via AppleTV -> pioneer vsx 821 -> ED9
These are the first iem in a long time for me that fit perfect right out of box. I feel no need to try other tips. I will get around to swapping the barrels for a listen but as far as I'm concerned they're more than worth my $12.50 just like they are. I've mostly been listening to Rock, Metal and EDM and they handle all quite well. Its a bass forward presentation but not overblown. The bass is deep and well controlled and doesn't step on the mids. The mids highs feel relatively flat with no glaring peaks or valleys to my ears. The imaging and separation is very good. ED9 gives my Brainwavz S0 and MEE M6 Pro some serious competition. At 1/4 the price its a no brainer. My go-to iem for the past few months have been the TTPOD T1E. They just hit the comfort/sound quality/ease of fit sweet spot for me. The signature of the ED9 is different and the soundstage isn't quite as open but because of these I know I'll be reaching for the T1E less. These will surely take a solid place among my daily drivers. Color me a KZ fan!


----------



## 1clearhead

grayson73 said:


> Do any KZ IEMs fit these requirements:
> 
> 1.  Has volume control
> 2.  Best for EDM and Pop
> 3.  At least as much bass as Piston 2


 
  
 Maybe not 1., but for 2. and 3. the ED10 can better the Pistons 2; better clarity where the Pistons fall short on top and provides a broad bass response just like the Pistons, but without the bloat!
  
 So, that's my take.....sorry, no volume control.


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> Maybe not 1., but for 2. and 3. the ED10 can better the Pistons 2; better clarity where the Pistons fall short on top and provides a broad bass response just like the Pistons, but without the bloat!
> 
> So, that's my take.....sorry, no volume control.


 
 I'm in agreement here, the ED9 may be, no wait is the best $10 iem I've ever bought


----------



## Missella

I agree that the SUR s808 sound good with equalization.  However, the find them hard to drive from my Sansa Fuze.


----------



## peter123

podster said:


> I'm in agreement here, the ED9 may be, no wait is the best $10 iem I've ever bought:wink_face:



+1, couldn't agree more!


----------



## Podster

peter123 said:


> +1, couldn't agree more!


 
 True Dat Peter, I just jumped on the Havi B3 Pro 1 over on it's last day at Mass Drop. I know Wokei is going to be happy with me because he has always been a fan and where am I ever going to get a dual driver iem again for $49.99! He says at least for him they have a very 3D soundstage and I'll be running them on my X3ii/NX2 combi which should sound pretty good at least I'm hoping so. In honor of the gifmaster I'm doing as he and putting some of my extra carbon fiber film from X3ii on them


----------



## Arsis

podster said:


> True Dat Peter, I just jumped on the Havi B3 Pro 1 over on it's last day at Mass Drop. I know Wokei is going to be happy with me because he has always been a fan and where am I ever going to get a dual driver iem again for $49.99! He says at least for him they have a very 3D soundstage and I'll be running them on my X3ii/NX2 combi which should sound pretty good at least I'm hoping so. In honor of the gifmaster I'm doing as he and putting some of my extra carbon fiber film from X3ii on them


I haven't heard the B3, and it is definitely on my list, but I wanted to add that the TTPOD T1E is a worthy dual driver for under $50.


----------



## Grayson73

podster said:


> I'm in agreement here, the ED9 may be, no wait is the best $10 iem I've ever bought


 
 He said ED10 and you said ED9, so how are you in agreement


----------



## B9Scrambler

missella said:


> I agree that the SUR s808 sound good with equalization.  However, the find them hard to drive from my Sansa Fuze.




Eh!! Someone else that tried the s808!!! Without EQ they're pretty 'meh'. Otherwise I think they go toe-to-toe with the KZ stuff pretty decently. I'm surprised you are having trouble driving them. My old Nexus S has a pretty weak amp but they seem to do well. I'll have to try them on my gf's Fuze tonight. Maybe just a bad pairing?


----------



## Bananiq

^ from my experience T1E is no match for Havi B3


----------



## theuprising

arsis said:


> I've spent the last couple of hours with my ED9. This is the first extended listening I've done with them and I have to say that I'm very impressed. My chain today is iTunes via AppleTV -> pioneer vsx 821 -> ED9
> These are the first iem in a long time for me that fit perfect right out of box. I feel no need to try other tips. I will get around to swapping the barrels for a listen but as far as I'm concerned they're more than worth my $12.50 just like they are. I've mostly been listening to Rock, Metal and EDM and they handle all quite well. Its a bass forward presentation but not overblown. The bass is deep and well controlled and doesn't step on the mids. The mids highs feel relatively flat with no glaring peaks or valleys to my ears. The imaging and separation is very good. ED9 gives my Brainwavz S0 and MEE M6 Pro some serious competition. At 1/4 the price its a no brainer. My go-to iem for the past few months have been the TTPOD T1E. They just hit the comfort/sound quality/ease of fit sweet spot for me. The signature of the ED9 is different and the soundstage isn't quite as open but because of these I know I'll be reaching for the T1E less. These will surely take a solid place among my daily drivers. Color me a KZ fan!


 
 Whoah they have a smaller soundstage than the TTPOD T1E? If the TTPOD T1E is really comparatively that good , I'd say screw all these imported headphones, get the Philips SHE3905, 10-15$ locally. Its soundstage is something like 2x the size of the T1E's (still smaller than most full-sized headphones I've heard), it scales well with more power, far better mid timbre, which sounds nasally and unnatural on the T1E, and even has better bass quality. The big drawback are some shrill peaks in its treble.


----------



## Podster

grayson73 said:


> He said ED10 and you said ED9, so how are you in agreement


 
 Good point Grayson but I'm sticking with my best at $10 since you can buy the ED10 for $8.50
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now if the ED10 which I don't have are anything remotely close to the ED9/ATE then I'm still in agreement
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 OK Grayson, I have put my money where my mouth is so as not to misread, confuse or possibly be hypocritical in the future I've performed the KZ hatrick and ordered the $8.46 KZ ED10's from Ali just now. I hope this can in some small way make up for my misreading of Mr. 1clearheads post


----------



## Arsis

theuprising said:


> Whoah they have a smaller soundstage than the TTPOD T1E? If the TTPOD T1E is really comparatively that good , I'd say screw all these imported headphones, get the Philips SHE3905, 10-15$ locally. Its soundstage is something like 2x the size of the T1E's (still smaller than most full-sized headphones I've heard), it scales well with more power, far better mid timbre, which sounds nasally and unnatural on the T1E, and even has better bass quality. The big drawback are some shrill peaks in its treble.


I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. I'm not familiar with the SHE3905 so I can't relate to the comparison. I personally like the T1E and don't find the mids "nasally and unnatural". Are they perfect? No, but I'm not alone in finding them very good. When it comes to soundstage its all very subjective. To me bigger doesn't always mean better. At some point it becomes unnatural and hollow in the middle. As far as "screw all these imports" to each his own. For me it's a hobby. A quest. I enjoy the variety. If I wanted one IEM to rule them all I would buy one expensive, flat, vanilla set and move on. I like the budget-fi world so I'll do some reading about the SHE3905 and maybe try them out. Although shrill treble peaks doesn't really sell me on them. None the less the ED9 is worth a try. Cheers!


----------



## CoiL

Nvm, doesn`t matter...


----------



## theuprising

arsis said:


> I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. I'm not familiar with the SHE3905 so I can't relate to the comparison. I personally like the T1E and don't find the mids "nasally and unnatural". Are they perfect? No, but I'm not alone in finding them very good. When it comes to soundstage its all very subjective. To me bigger doesn't always mean better. At some point it becomes unnatural and hollow in the middle. As far as "screw all these imports" to each his own. For me it's a hobby. A quest. I enjoy the variety. If I wanted one IEM to rule them all I would buy one expensive, flat, vanilla set and move on. I like the budget-fi world so I'll do some reading about the SHE3905 and maybe try them out. Although shrill treble peaks doesn't really sell me on them. None the less the ED9 is worth a try. Cheers!


 
 I'm just saying for people who want a budget option, the SHE3905 may sound better than many KZ iems with easier availability. I have the 3905 and T1e and consider them sidegrades even though the T1e is 2x the price. I bought an ED9 which should already be here by now... because the T1e sounded ugly with my warm amp so I am giving KZ a shot.


----------



## peter123

podster said:


> True Dat Peter, I just jumped on the Havi B3 Pro 1 over on it's last day at Mass Drop. I know Wokei is going to be happy with me because he has always been a fan and where am I ever going to get a dual driver iem again for $49.99! He says at least for him they have a very 3D soundstage and I'll be running them on my X3ii/NX2 combi which should sound pretty good at least I'm hoping so. In honor of the gifmaster I'm doing as he and putting some of my extra carbon fiber film from X3ii on them




Nice, I hope you will like them . I'm sure you know that I'm a hardcore Havi fan as well and would rank them in my top three regardless of price 

I also agree with Wokei on the 3D presentation, just amazing.


----------



## Shadowsora

Today I received my 2nd pair of ED9(couldn't resist the 5 euro deal back then) and noticed a difference right away, I'll let the photo I took explain.
  

  
 The new pair is to the left, you can see a pattern behind the mesh which isn't visible/exist(?) in my older one.
 Regarding sound difference, maybe just maybe the new one has a bit smoother highs.


----------



## B9Scrambler

shadowsora said:


> Today I received my 2nd pair of ED9(couldn't resist the 5 euro deal back then) and noticed a difference right away, I'll let the photo I took explain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your new pair looks like mine. No mesh at all. Just a straight shot to the driver.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Today I received my 2nd pair of ED9(couldn't resist the 5 euro deal back then) and noticed a difference right away, I'll let the photo I took explain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From Tombuy? I'm yet to receive that pair..


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> From Tombuy? I'm yet to receive that pair..



Yup, it's from tombuy.


----------



## MaciWorks

Today I received my new KZ earphones, a pair of ED9. First impression: it's beautiful! 
But... I tried it, and to be honest I'm really disappointed. I have a pair of EDSE, and I tought that I will become a little bit more bass and maybe more highs too. But my ED9 sounds simply flat. Bass is weak and... I don't know. It sounds like a really cheap earphone. Maybe I should burn in my new ED9? I tried it with the golden nozzles.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Your new pair looks like mine. No mesh at all. Just a straight shot to the driver.


 
 Yes, it is hit or miss with the KZ's as for the price quality control is not top priority
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had mesh out of place on one of my pair of ED9 and then one pair had only brass filters but for less than $10 these are things I can live with or correct cheap enough.


----------



## Makso1

Which Kz's are better, EDSE or ED10 ??? For edm,house music


----------



## Shadowsora

ED10 IMO are unproved atm, only a few people have them so i would suggest you to wait for more opinions, or get ED9/ED8m/R35 if you can't wait ^^
  
 EDIT: Apparently Tuner/r35 price has skyrocketed, it's a great iem but i think you should better go with ED9 as i believe it's better and half the price.


----------



## anticute

IMO ED9 is a bit like an improved version of EDSE but then again, there have been opinions in this thread saying the exact opposite, so..


----------



## Makso1

Actually i have ED9  but I need to buy second pair of IEM's. Which do you recommend ? ( Max 15 pounds)


----------



## EISENbricher

makso1 said:


> Actually i have ED9  but I need to buy second pair of IEM's. Which do you recommend ? ( Max 15 pounds)



I'd say go for ATE. They sound smooth and lush, are lightweight. Nice complement for ED9.


----------



## TwinACStacks

maciworks said:


> Today I received my new KZ earphones, a pair of ED9. First impression: it's beautiful!
> But... I tried it, and to be honest I'm really disappointed. I have a pair of EDSE, and I tought that I will become a little bit more bass and maybe more highs too. But my ED9 sounds simply flat. Bass is weak and... I don't know. It sounds like a really cheap earphone. Maybe I should burn in my new ED9? I tried it with the golden nozzles.


 






 Burn them In, But Truthfully I like the EDSE BEST of all the KZ's for Comfort and Sound Quality. The ANV do sound a little more refined but they are uncomfortable for me to wear for a long period of time. You could also try the ATE. They have a Darker sound signature, but are very detailed. You can listen to them for long periods without fatigue. But their Drawback is they are a PIA to put on being Over-ears.
  
 I can't imagine needing more Bass than the EDSE's have.
  








 TWIN


----------



## robervaul

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01000UNYM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
*Bette Hybrid Dynamic Balanced Armature (BA)*
  



*KZ ED1*

  Would be a good time for kz announce a hybrid US $8.00


----------



## Wokei




----------



## B9Scrambler

Wokei!!!! Welcome back buddy. Hope all is well


----------



## MaciWorks

My EDSE has really strong and beautiful bass. And it had already out of the box. 
But I read a lot of good about ED9 and everybody wrote that it has a little bit more
 V shaped sound signature. So I made a try. But now I simply don't know what's wrong.
 After 10-12 hours compared to my EDSE ( or to my SM ES18 or my Samsung earphone
 that I have become with my S4) it still has no bass. It sounds like a 3-was loudspeaker
with broken bass. Mids and highs are ok but that' all. No strong bass at all.


----------



## mochill

Welcome back wokei our brother


----------



## tsetse7

maciworks said:


> My EDSE has really strong and beautiful bass. And it had already out of the box.
> But I read a lot of good about ED9 and everybody wrote that it has a little bit more
> V shaped sound signature. So I made a try. But now I simply don't know what's wrong.
> After 10-12 hours compared to my EDSE ( or to my SM ES18 or my Samsung earphone
> ...


 
 Ok,... if the nozzle on your pair have vents, just block those vents, you will get bass back. My ED9 came with golden (shorter) and brass (longer) nozzles. The golden nozzles do not have vents, so they have the bass that I happen to like. They also have black foams inside the foams acts like a high frequency filter. The brass one does not have the black foam and have vents. Then vents decrease the bass substantially and the absence of foam makes the brass nozzles more for a bright sound.
 Golden nozzle (no vent): Warmer
 Brass nozzle (vents): Brighter
  
 The best balance for me is brass nozzle with foam and blocked vents.


----------



## MaciWorks

I tried with golden nozzles. No vents. With some "modding" (more foam) and some more hearing now it has a little bit more bass. It sounds like my ES18 with better highs. 
Hmmmm... maybe my EDSE is a "specially" good pair of earphone? It really sounds fantastic, and I think now that because of that compared anything to it it's hard to find a better one.


----------



## EISENbricher

Well it's natural... I have 2 pairs of EDSE and ED9 each, all pairs from different sellers so I'd say I have no pair with manufacturing defect. 

Taking that into consideration EDSE for sure, have more bass than ED9 (Gold as well as brass). And as people have said they are still very good sounding IEMs. Depending upon listener's preferences no wonder if someone puts EDSE as their #1 KZ.


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> Today I received my 2nd pair of ED9(couldn't resist the 5 euro deal back then) and noticed a difference right away, I'll let the photo I took explain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I talked about difference little time ago. I also got the same deal I think (Tombuy for 6.9$).


coil said:


> Ok guys, 3 options - KZ has unstable quality in SQ/QC or we have newer/older batch difference... or maybe they have "burn-in" difference, idk.
> Using exactly same tips, brass nozzles, all without foam mod... my very 1st ED9 has littlebit more bass than those 2 new. Difference is little though.
> I took a closer look on them all and noticed *difference in driver protector "plate" color under driver grill that is attached inside ED9 body in front of driver (6 holes with 1 littebit larger hole in middle) .*
> My older pair Is kinda "black" metal while those 2 newer ones have it shiny.
> Will leave those ED9`s burning in and report back after some time.


 

 Your older one should still have that "hole-plate" in front of driver behind mesh but it is black so it`s hard to see. Can You check Your older ones properly with strong light to confirm?
  
  
  


robervaul said:


>


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01000UNYM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
> *Bette Hybrid Dynamic Balanced Armature (BA)*
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


 They are not KZ and not same IEM. Just same looking enclosure, that`s all.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






jekostas said:


> anticute said:
> 
> 
> > Soooo, anyway, care to give us some impressions jekostas?
> ...


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> I talked about difference little time ago. I also got the same deal I think (Tombuy for 6.9$).
> 
> Your older one should still have that "hole-plate" in front of driver behind mesh but it is black so it`s hard to see. Can You check Your older ones properly with strong light to confirm?


 
 Yup, you are right tried with a strong flash and got this.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Well it's natural... I have 2 pairs of EDSE and ED9 each, all pairs from different sellers so I'd say I have no pair with manufacturing defect.
> 
> Taking that into consideration EDSE for sure, have more bass than ED9 (Gold as well as brass). And as people have said they are still very good sounding IEMs. Depending upon listener's preferences no wonder if someone puts EDSE as their #1 KZ.




Good call Eisen, IMHO all the KZ models are excellent for the price and with that said for sub $10 iem's there will be factory deffects but hopefully you won't have them or do get good replacements. I have listened to enough iem's now and read enough reviews of what I consider knowlegeable ears hear and it come down to individual preference. Once you find a sound you like a read if others with like taste you can base what you might like on the. I like real bass without and fluff or fillers as si many recordings have today. I actually strive ti have my portable signatures as clise to the sound if my analog rig as possible. But as I said for sub $10 it is fun to play around without worrying about breaking the bank.


----------



## Podster

Man my fat fingers suck on the iPhone keypad


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Good call Eisen, IMHO all the KZ models are excellent for the price and with that said for sub $10 iem's there will be factory deffects but hopefully you won't have them or do get good replacements. I have listened to enough iem's now and read enough reviews of what I consider knowlegeable ears hear and it come down to individual preference. Once you find a sound you like a read if others with like taste you can base what you might like on the. I like real bass without and fluff or fillers as si many recordings have today. I actually strive ti have my portable signatures as clise to the sound if my analog rig as possible. But as I said for sub $10 it is fun to play around without worrying about breaking the bank.



Yep I agree to this. Just curious, which KZ sounds best to you, as per your preference?


----------



## dcpmale

Got the ATE and ED9 today. Took 23 days to reach me. Out of the box, I like the ED9 with default  nozzle. ATE sounded weak. Now I got a 100 hr burned in EDSE, ED9,ATE and Vsonic GR99 in my collection. Will write comparisons after burn in.

 Here's a pic of my collection (Since I'm a new member, can't upload directly to this thread yet)

http://i.imgur.com/TKYUU0z.jpg?1


----------



## JesvsR

Please, resuming the post: What is the best KZ IEM?? I want to try these headphones, but I don't want to know where to start =S I prefer a detailed sound signature, more than a V-shaped one, but if the headphone is clear and detailed, I'm satisfied =)


----------



## EISENbricher

dcpmale said:


> Got the ATE and ED9 today. Took 23 days to reach me. Out of the box, I like the ED9 with default  nozzle. ATE sounded weak. Now I got a 100 hr burned in EDSE, ED9,ATE and Vsonic GR99 in my collection. Will write comparisons after burn in.
> 
> Here's a pic of my collection (Since I'm a new member, can't upload directly to this thread yet)
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/TKYUU0z.jpg?1


 
 Good. Try tip rolling ATE a bit, try some silicone tips. They are tip sensitive. 
 Welcome btw to KZ family : )


----------



## EISENbricher

jesvsr said:


> Please, resuming the post: What is the best KZ IEM?? I want to try these headphones, but I don't want to know where to start =S I prefer a detailed sound signature, more than a V-shaped one, but if the headphone is clear and detailed, I'm satisfied =)


 
 Best? You might get different answers from different people. Since there aren't any 'tiers' in KZ offerings, there is no such things as a 'flagship kz' or 'Entry level kz'. They have a pool if IEMs all featuring nice build quality and good cable, while differing in sound signatures, appearance, fit, etc. 
  
 I'd change 'best' term to 'hot favorites'. Currently ED9 and ATE seem to be hot favorites around and personally I'd say both are really good. Please read back a few pages, @twister6 's reviews of both ED9 and ATE and you'll be able to make a choice.


----------



## JesvsR

EISENbricher Which one do you recommend to me?? I prefer the detailed sound over the V-shaped sound


----------



## aaDee

After couple of days of using ED9 I must say they sound much much above their price for sure. This has become one of my most favorite iems.
 I tried modding bronze filter. Added foam from gold filters and covered the vents on the filter with blue tack. They now sound bassier than gold but in a good way. Bass is punchier now, harsh treble has mellowed down. A perfect balanced earphones without any complaint.
 They are not as refined as some costlier iems but definitely you have no scope to complain for the price you are paying.
 Yes they are heavy, they dont stay longer in your ears but this problem is very minor. I'm wearing them over the ear, it gives slightly better sub-bass.(using grey tips). I'm a happy KZ customer/ fan now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## EISENbricher

jesvsr said:


> EISENbricher Which one do you recommend to me?? I prefer the detailed sound over the V-shaped sound



This is really difficult... But because of flexibility of having 2 different sounds I'd say go for ED9. ED9 with brass nozzle has amazing details.


----------



## Arsis

I burned in my ED9 with pink noise for 48 hours and had to come back to sing their praises. With burn-in I haven't noticed anything drastically different but I already had about 20 hours of use on them.

Here's my signal chain:
Realistic LAB-2200 linear tracking turntable/Audio-Technica 311ep cartridge -> Cambridge Audio 540P phono pre -> Little Dot I+ (we408a /Burr-Brown 2107) -> KZ ED9

Wow! These little guys sound phenomenal! Listening to AC/DC Back in Black right now. Crisp, detailed cymbals and natural snappy snare drum. Guitars are full and edgy just as they should be. The bass and kick drum are tight and punchy. Switching records to Tool "Lateralus" I continue to be impressed. Imaging and separation feels very good. Dynamics and depth are impressive at this price point. The drum kit is naturally spaced. and the transients are crisp and articulate. The ambient room sounds also feel quite natural. I find the overall signature is very even and pleasing. I'm very impressed with these. The more I listen the more impressed I am. Can't wait to try other KZ models.


----------



## JesvsR

eisenbricher said:


> This is really difficult... But because of flexibility of having 2 different sounds I'd say go for ED9. ED9 with brass nozzle has amazing details.




I think I'll go after the black ATE's, because of their weight and the isolation


----------



## JesvsR

jesvsr said:


> I think I'll go after the black ATE's, because of their weight and the isolation




The weight and the isolation of the ED9, obviously xD


----------



## EISENbricher

jesvsr said:


> The weight and the isolation of the ED9, obviously xD


 
 Good choice still... Personally I love ATE's sound more (for warmth, smooth signature and soundstage). ED9's weight is less than ED8m, ED3 and EDSE and fit is good. But ED9 are a little fatiguing and it's hard to keep them in ears for hours.


----------



## JesvsR

And how about the ANV and the ED10??


----------



## CoiL

Still too little feedback on ED10 to recommend them firmly along with ED9 & ATE. I would get both latter, they compliment nicely eachother. Personally I consider ATE-b best KZ IEM but with only slight gap over ED9 and ANV. Imho, if You have money, get all three - ANV, ATE & ED9. They are all different but very good.


----------



## JesvsR

I think I'll get the ATE =) one question: do they need some kind of rolling?? In afirmative case, could you give me some rolling CDs and some instructions?? Sorry for all the requests, but I'm a total noob =S


----------



## CoiL

jesvsr said:


> I think I'll get the ATE =) one question: do they need some kind of rolling?? In afirmative case, could you give me some rolling CDs and some instructions?? Sorry for all the requests, but I'm a total noob =S


 
 Rolling CD`s?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You mean tip rolling? Yes, they are quite sensitive to tip rolling and imho doesn`t sound good with foam tips. Large bore "mushroom" shaped silicone tips are better. Which ones exactly, You have to find Your own fit for Your ears.


----------



## EISENbricher

jesvsr said:


> I think I'll get the ATE =) one question: do they need some kind of rolling?? In afirmative case, could you give me some rolling CDs and some instructions?? Sorry for all the requests, but I'm a total noob =S


 
 Tip rolling : means trying out multiple ear tips. ATEs do come with foam tips installed by default, but additional silicone tips are there in the box. I'd suggest to try those eartips (and also additional ones which you may have in your collection) to achieve best fit and sound.
  
 BTW if you are talking about burn-in and not tip rolling as I said above, then I'd recommend just plain pink noise at moderate volume level. I'm not sure about burn in effect myself so it may or may not make any sonic difference.


----------



## JesvsR

Aaaah OK!! I thought that "rolling" means "burn them with a special CD" Sorry xD


----------



## JesvsR

I'm Spanish, I'm not used to the Head-Fi vocabulary hahahaha


----------



## altrunox

what, I have been gone for some days and... KZ official store is gone again? LOL!
  
 BTW, no ED10 review yet?


----------



## RedTwilight

altrunox said:


> what, I have been gone for some days and... KZ official store is gone again? LOL!
> 
> BTW, no ED10 review yet?


 
  
 Here you go:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387


----------



## altrunox

redtwilight said:


> Here you go:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387


 
  
 Thanks!
 IDK is someone already posted it, but the ED10 are super cheap here:
 http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-In-Ear-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphone/32377108579.html
  
 Are they any good?


----------



## Horton

Get notice is KZ didn't have this S6 model
 If any one know this model?


----------



## ayao

This was very briefly mentioned in page 217, but I don't know if anyone has it (or the cosonic w1). $6.27 (mobile) is a pretty good deal though, if someone's looking for a (seemingly-well-designed) bass-heavy IEM.


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Rolling CD`s?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 And here I immediately thought smoke'em if you got'em


----------



## Podster

horton said:


> Get notice is KZ didn't have this S6 model
> If any one know this model?


 
 Saw them out on Ali but not heard. They do have a saxy shell compared to the rest of my KZ's!


----------



## JesvsR

Anybody has tried the KZ LP3¿¿  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brand-KZ-Original-KZ-LP3-fone-de-ouvido-super-bass-Dj-Headphone-Auriculares-hifi-stereo-headphones/32386354095.html
  
 They look soo good... what about the sound??  are they closed??


----------



## chavez

jesvsr said:


> Anybody has tried the KZ LP3¿¿
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Brand-KZ-Original-KZ-LP3-fone-de-ouvido-super-bass-Dj-Headphone-Auriculares-hifi-stereo-headphones/32386354095.html
> 
> They look soo good... what about the sound??  are they closed??


 
  
 Sadly no one.


----------



## CoiL

Spoiler: Replacement cables






coil said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > > If anyone has other ideas, other brands/models that has a nice cable and mic (and are cheap, obviously), I'm totally open to that too.
> ...


 
  


 Today finally got my "IE800" replacement cable for ATE. This cable is VERY good! Soft, not rubbery, thinner than original ATE cable, strong to pulling (pvc sleeve has braiding line in it, no stretching), quite small 90* angle jack with soft relief, small Y-split and very nice looking too! This is even better replacement cable than I put on ED9 (black sleeved).
 Highly recommended upgrade for any KZ IEM! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So far my cable lineup from better to worse looks like this:
 1) IE800:: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Semi-Finished-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-IE800-repair-upgrade-LBH1026/2044467318.html
 2) KZ R35 cable. Unfortunately no cheap R35 available anymore. I got mine for ~6$
 3) LN004480 black: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3m-Semi-Finished-OFC-270-Degree-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-wire-cable-LN004480/32229879102.html
 4) KZ GR translucent original cable
 5) KZ ATE original cable
 ....
 10000000000) KZ ED9 (brown without mic) - worst IEM cable I`ve ever had!
  
  
 now waiting for mmcx connectors.


----------



## Enuma-elis

Wow, thats quite a discount: one for 7.99, ten for 3.6 each .


----------



## Enuma-elis

coil said:


> Spoiler: Replacement cables
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, thats quite a discount: one for 7.99, ten for 3.6 each .


----------



## CoiL

Took a fast comparison pic vs. ATE cable also (sorry for bad quality):


----------



## Enuma-elis

I had a problem deciding, so I took both ED10 and Ate. I am looking for comfort fit + seal, and yeah good sound also. But my Astrotec AX35 will beat them both I guess...I hope?


----------



## CoiL

Well, remember - ATE is sensitive to tip rolling and has average isolation (if not less). ED10 will probably seal better.
 What is Your source gear?


----------



## Adonai

Hi everyone. I got my ed2 yesterday. The specs showed some good numbers and price so i bought 1 ed2 and ed9. Haven't played 10 songs yet and I just realized I'm missing a lot of details using my qc 15. The only thing I'm not sure with the ed2 is which should be on the left or right ear.


----------



## 1clearhead

adonai said:


> Hi everyone. I got my ed2 yesterday. The specs showed some good numbers and price so i bought 1 ed2 and ed9. Haven't played 10 songs yet and I just realized I'm missing a lot of details using my qc 15. The only thing I'm not sure with the ed2 is which should be on the left or right ear.


 

 If you're going by color code....
  
 Left=Blue, Right=Red


----------



## Adonai

thank you. 
  
 I had it the other way since most of my old headphones have the microphone on the left. 
  
 This thing is wonderful. I'm hearing things I haven't noticed before: people clapping, the slight sounds from the lips of the speaker, and a lot more. How are the cables by the way? Do they break easily?


----------



## theuprising

My ED9 finally arrived; I don't know what other people are on about, its soundstage width is somewhere around 2x as big as the TTPOD T1e's, though it may lack a bit in depth comparatively. On first impressions, its less detailed than the T1e in the mids but has more detailed treble, but I mean I almost immediately would pick the ed9 over it simply because the TTPOD's sound signature is decently colored, and its comparatively far less revealing and cramped.
  
 What eartips did you guys find work best with these? I'm guessing wide-bore? Its isolation seems worse than most iems, maybe they are open back.


----------



## CoiL

theuprising, what was the source gear used to compare TTPOD T1e vs. ED9 ?


----------



## theuprising

I'll do a full 3 way review of the T1E vs ED9 vs SHE3905 when I feel up to it. I have a neutral on-board Realtek sound card, and a warm Fiio E07k. This is the only headphone I have that responded this way, but my Fiio E07k actually seems to make the soundstage smaller, though, like it does to my other bass-lite headphones, it steals some of the ED9's air but gives it much more bass quantity and quality, necessary for the ED9 as it sounds thin without it. I swear the thing has something like a +5dB boost to the bass.
  
 The T1e actually becomes bloated without any improvement in bass quality with my amp, making me think it responds worse to amping.


----------



## farisq

I can agree with you on the isolation... For a week I been trying to get good isolation when commuting. Initially I was surprised that isolation was very poor coz I can hear every there's announcement of train station and the sound of engine clearly.. Never had this problem with any of my iem before.. Then I realised it is actually open back... Pity coz I like the sound...


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> Took a fast comparison pic vs. ATE cable also (sorry for bad quality):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 This cable looks like the one i used for my MH1 recabling which i got from lunashops, the jack and the Y splitter, only coloring differs.
  http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=4435


----------



## EarTips

adonai said:


> Hi everyone. I got my ed2 yesterday. ........ The only thing I'm not sure with the ed2 is which should be on the left or right ear.


 

 You shd try this video track


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Took a fast comparison pic vs. ATE cable also (sorry for bad quality):
> ...


 

 I saw that one on aliexpress also but I don`t like the looks and it doesn`t seem to have braided nylon line running around/inside PVC. Also PVC looks littlebit rubbery/matte (is it?) compared to IE800 cable which is on the "slippy" side but not so much as r35/LN004480.


----------



## EISENbricher

adonai said:


> thank you.
> 
> I had it the other way since most of my old headphones have the microphone on the left.
> 
> This thing is wonderful. I'm hearing things I haven't noticed before: people clapping, the slight sounds from the lips of the speaker, and a lot more. How are the cables by the way? Do they break easily?


 
 ED2 and EDSE cables are the same and they do last. No worries about cable quality.


----------



## nhlean96

Just got my ANV and ATE, and here are my impressions :
 - The ATE just give me a surprise, good isolation with foam tip and correct placing. Overall is detailed and smooth with punchy bass and deep bass. Good comfort too. 
 - The ANV disappointed me, harsh treble and bass is not deep, mid is recessed. Detailed and separation is not good. Maybe it's not suitable for me


----------



## zzhead

HI,
 My first post here.
  
 Just by accident got the S6's some time ago.
 Certainly before discovering this thread.
 Then continued without much knowledge on MOXPADS X3
 and then saw true light with KZ-ATE that I immediately ordered a second pair to avoid any "withdrawal symptoms" if it ever anything  went wrong with the first pair.
 S6 are nice slick and disappear into the ear and just forget them. Perhaps this should be the future shape for ATE's
 In terms of acoustic quality ATE are tops by far (well not in shape and comfort though)
 A surprising second is the Moxpad x3 .Many times caught myself forgetting which earphones i was wearing esp considering wear comfort .
 It is a brand that the adventurous of you (esp. those well stocked on KZ's) should give a try .
 so
 1. ATE
 2 ED9, ED10 ETC (I do not own them but out of respect for your opinions)
 3 MOXPAD X3 
 4..........
 5  S6
 I hope I was of some help


----------



## CoiL

nhlean96 said:


> Just got my ANV and ATE, and here are my impressions :
> - The ATE just give me a surprise, good isolation with foam tip and correct placing. Overall is detailed and smooth with punchy bass and deep bass. Good comfort too.
> - The ANV disappointed me, harsh treble and bass is not deep, mid is recessed. Detailed and separation is not good. Maybe it's not suitable for me


 

 What is You source gear?
 Did You try ATE with large bore silicone tips? The are sensitive to tip rolling and SQ gets better with silicones.
  
 On ANV part I can only agree with bass not being deep enough. Mids are neutral and treble on the edge of being harsh but they aren`t. Separation and details are one of the best out of KZ imo. I suspect it`s the source gear difference or You didn`t get good seal with them.


----------



## satansmutt

nhlean96 said:


> Just got my ANV and ATE, and here are my impressions :
> - The ATE just give me a surprise, good isolation with foam tip and correct placing. Overall is detailed and smooth with punchy bass and deep bass. Good comfort too.
> - The ANV disappointed me, harsh treble and bass is not deep, mid is recessed. Detailed and separation is not good. Maybe it's not suitable for me


 

 For me it is the opposite. I got the ATE and ANV last week and I love the ANV but the ATE while smooth with no harsh treble are just boring, they seem to suck all the life out of my music,they managed to make Rage Against the Machine sound like a middle of the road country and western band. They do everything adequately but do nothing particularly well.
 I also didn't like the ED9 the gold filters were poor and the brass had splashy and harsh treble and they were uncomfortable to wear for any extended length of time. Anyway it seems petty of me to complain about any of the KZ earphones considering the ridiculously cheap prices they charge, they all punch well above their weight


----------



## nhlean96

Maybe the ANV needs to be burned for a while, or my ears to get used to them :v I found the ATE with stock foam tips can get the best isolation and comfort. I got 3 kind of tip : Blue hybird tips (ED10 tips), Red hybird tips (ED9 tips) and KZ foam tips (2 yuan for 1 set). And ANV + KZ foam tips suit me best. Other tips make my ears hurt 
 Anyway, they're still on of the best choice of the price
 Couldn't complain anything else for that price ~$10 yup.


----------



## EISENbricher

satansmutt said:


> For me it is the opposite. I got the ATE and ANV last week and I love the ANV but the ATE while smooth with no harsh treble are just boring, they seem to suck all the life out of my music,they managed to make Rage Against the Machine sound like a middle of the road country and western band. They do everything adequately but do nothing particularly well.
> I also didn't like the ED9 the gold filters were poor and the brass had splashy and harsh treble and they were uncomfortable to wear for any extended length of time. Anyway it seems petty of me to complain about any of the KZ earphones considering the ridiculously cheap prices they charge, they all punch well above their weight


 
 It's most probably individual sound perception and genre preference... 
 While RATM sound definitely needs edgy treble to represent lovely crunch of Tom Morello's guitar, the songs on the other side of spectrum,  such as number of EDM sub genres require fluid, bodied bass to sound to their full potential. 
  
 I find myself using different earphone doing justice for different genres. Especially at such a low price point it's hard to find something that delivers it all.


----------



## Arsis

To start I must say that I think the term "soundstage" is the most over used and subjective jargon in audiophillia. Its unquantifiable and merely individual perception. That said, to me it has more to do with the apparent proximity to instruments and dynamic range. Again, to me, a more open sound is one having greater difference between loud and soft and a natural apparent proximity. A more compressed or congested sound obviously being the opposite. Dynamically linear and close proximity. Natural dynamics come from the accurate relative volumes between a soft sound and a loud one. More importantly to me is how accurate the softer sounds are reproduced. It's easy to hear the details of a loud sound. It takes takes finesse to accurately capture and reproduce the tiny details of a finger on an acoustic guitar string or the breath before a scream.
 The width claim is where I have a problem. Having been a studio engineer for 20 years I have a firm comprehension on mixing songs and creating a soundstage. The pan knob only goes so far to one side. 100% on one side and 0% on the other. Total separation from one ear to the other is as wide as it gets. The only way to give the illusion of being wider is through phase coherence trickery at the cost of frequency response and a smudged, hollow sounding center image. Not a quality you want in your iem.
 On the contrary the soundstage can be narrowed if something is causing crosstalk and preventing 100% channel separation. But that's something more likely caused by the source or amp than the iem itself.
 Making the soundstage sound artificially large is something that can be done by the mixing or mastering engineer but not something you want your headphones or IEMs doing. We are able to locate sounds in the stereo field because our brain decodes the subtle differences between one ear and the other.
A pure tone only in your left can only be perceived so far left. In order to be perceived any farther left it would be perceived as behind you. In order to do that the sound must be introduced to the right ear with altered frequency response to emulate the filtering of our outer ear and mass of our own head.
 Even the best 3d holographic recording is a product of the recording, mixing and mastering process not the playback system. The reason it works with headphones and not speakers is the discrete channel separation that you get with headphones and can't get with speakers. Its true that the better the playback system the better the effect. But, that is almost exclusively dependent on the larger of the variables which is the accuracy of frequency response, dynamic reproduction and proximity. Yes, channel separation is extremely important but can pretty much be taken for granted. Even the worst iem on the planet has discrete channel separation because its wired that way. 
 To say that the ed9 is 2x wider than the T1E doesn't make any sense to me. When I say the ed9's soundstage sounds a little smaller to me I'm referring to proximity and dynamics. The instruments sound closer to my ear with not quite as much dynamic range. The T1E feels a little less compressed to me and seems a little more effortless in terms of dynamics. I assumingly attribute this to a larger cavity and dual drivers. The trade-off is a less accurate frequency response. I prefer the curve of the ed9 (gold barrel/stock tips) but the dynamics and openness of the T1E. I personally would have a hard time giving up one over the other. They both have their good points. The fact that KZ has done it with a single driver at 1/3 the price is most impressive.


----------



## nhlean96

OK, listened the ANV with audiophile vocal tracks. It performed very good, the vocal is natural, with little sibilance.
 The ANV depends very much on the source like @CoiL said, but I don't think it's good for metal since most metal tracks are not recorded with good standard.


----------



## Enuma-elis

coil said:


> Well, remember - ATE is sensitive to tip rolling and has average isolation (if not less). ED10 will probably seal better.
> What is Your source gear?


 
 Good old Colorfly C3.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Quote:


arsis said:


> To start I must say that I think the term "soundstage" is the most over used and subjective jargon in audiophillia........


 
 Arsis,
  
 I tend to agree with you, I posted this in 'The Lab" a few days back.  I think it is saying the same thing you just posted.
  
  The following was just posted to another group that I follow.  I felt it might be of interest here.
  
 Quote:
  
 Hi Guys:
  
 I wanted to respond to Radu's comment about "soundstage", something in which we are all interested.
  
 I'm now speaking as a retired recording engineer who dealt mostly with classical music and some jazz.
  
 The best analogy of a soundstage occurs with a very similar human sense, that of seeing.  
  
 You may have noticed that most of us have two eyes, and if you were really observant (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) you may also have noticed what happens when we close one eye and view the world through only the remaining one.  Upon the closing of one of the pair, we discover that what was formerly a 3-dimensional image has suddenly become only two-dimensional.  This two-dimensional image consists of information describing only left to right, and up and down.  There no longer exists the third dimension, which is front to back, or depth.
  
 OK, so after stating the obvious, it's time to examine how recordings and their resultant soundstage differ.
  
 Many of my recordings, particularly for orchestras and chamber ensembles of various sizes were made with only two  microphones, a "stereo pair" consisting of either two spaced omnidirectional mics, or an ORTF pair, which are cardioids spaced a distance of 117cm apart, angled at about 100 degrees, or each about 50 degrees from center.  There are a few other  miking methods which also produce a fairly accurate 3-dimensional soundstage.  These methods give results similar to our two eyes, both open.
  
 Quite a few years back (much longer than I care to count)  multitrack recording became fashionable, with recordings being made with a microphone directly assigned to each instrument.  Since there were no longer any "stereo pairs" of mics in most of these recordings, there was no longer any perceived depth to the recording, unless a few of the mics happened to interact in such a way that some depth was allowed to happen.  The only localizing of instruments was achieved by the position of the pan-pot, or panning potentiometer, which assigned a particular mic channel a location between full left and full right, depending on the engineer's conception of how he thought the recording should sound, and his positioning of the control.  In other words, the engineer established the positioning of instruments from left to right.  There was no depth unless some reverb or artificial ambience was added to the mix.
  
 So what's the result of all these various ways of recording?  The result is a lot of recordings with wildly differing soundstages, some with true depth created from real stereo miking, and others with no depth other than that created by reverb added to the mix.
  
 It's therefore easy to understand that sometimes we may be listening to material that has a "real" 3-dimensional soundstage, and other times we are hearing a two-dimensional recording with added ambience.  The bottom line here is that our recordings are extremely variable as far as soundstage is concerned.
  
 I realize that for many of us, I've been " preaching to the choir", but hopefully one or two of you will have gained a bit of better understanding.  You can't blame the tuner for no perceived depth when none was recorded in the first place.
  
 Jeff
  
 End quote.
  
  


 Thanks YMMV,
  
 r2


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> I saw that one on aliexpress also but I don`t like the looks and it doesn`t seem to have braided nylon line running around/inside PVC. Also PVC looks littlebit rubbery/matte (is it?) compared to IE800 cable which is on the "slippy" side but not so much as r35/LN004480.


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I don't have the right words to describe it but it's the lightest cable I own and paired with the thin aluminum housing of mh1c it's by far the most comfortable iem I own, it has memory it's not the best cable I have seen but it's not bad IMO, I also noticed a slightly "colder" signature versus the stock MH1 cable.
  
 On another note:
 After revisiting my modded mh1 my KZ ED9/ATE lack a lot in clarity.
  

 It's my first recable so I wasn't that succesfull with the housings, I also didn't have the right tools.


----------



## CoiL

> Upon the closing of one of the pair, we discover that what was formerly a 3-dimensional image has suddenly become only two-dimensional.  This two-dimensional image consists of information describing only left to right, and up and down.  There no longer exists the third dimension, which is front to back, or depth.


 
 When I close one eye, I can still sense front to back, up to down depth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Actually, closing one ear I can still also sense sound distance and direction. The thing is, in both cases there are sound/light reflections according to environment which help our brain to perceive depth, distance, height etc.
 I think this is not so good analogy but I get the point and most of us probably do.


> Many of my recordings, particularly for orchestras and chamber ensembles of various sizes were made with only two  microphones, a "stereo pair" consisting of either two spaced omnidirectional mics, or an ORTF pair, which are cardioids spaced a distance of 117cm apart, angled at about 100 degrees, or each about 50 degrees from center.  There are a few other  miking methods which also produce a fairly accurate 3-dimensional soundstage.  These methods give results similar to our two eyes, both open.
> 
> Quite a few years back (much longer than I care to count)  multitrack recording became fashionable, with recordings being made with a microphone directly assigned to each instrument.  Since there were no longer any "stereo pairs" of mics in most of these recordings, there was no longer any perceived depth to the recording, unless a few of the mics happened to interact in such a way that some depth was allowed to happen.  The only localizing of instruments was achieved by the position of the pan-pot, or panning potentiometer, which assigned a particular mic channel a location between full left and full right, depending on the engineer's conception of how he thought the recording should sound, and his positioning of the control.  In other words, the engineer established the positioning of instruments from left to right.  There was no depth unless some reverb or artificial ambience was added to the mix.
> 
> ...


 
 Totally agree. And after all that we still reach to the land of IEM/HP soundstage capabilities. We can perceive sound-stage differently with different IEM/HP`s and this is where things get complicated. Which of them sounds more "true"? More accurate? etc. One IEM can be "limiting" that sound-stage, another "overdo" it. I guess only way to get best comparison is by comparing live concert while listening to it in one certain spot and recording taken from exactly same spot with best possible "3D" giving recording result. Imagine dummy-head mimicking human physiology placed on concert hall in certain place. Unfortunately basically nobody of us have that opportunity. That`s where professional mastering (artificially added ambience, panning, digital effects etc.) and recording methods (room, real-time effects, miking etc.) comes into play. Are those artificially added things certainly bad? I think no, when it`s done by masters of their job. Their "mission" is put everything together and make it natural & "true" sounding to us. And it is crazy-hard job with all different stuff to be considered in end result. And when things are not done good in final result we can of can`t, depending on IEM sound-stage capabilities, make difference between real live "concert" and artificially created one. Also when music is mastered to its best, IEM/HP`s can be "limiting" its sound-stage, probably due to its sound frequency curve/tuning and dynamic capabilities. For example I have had some fast "test" with some ppl claiming their cheap HP/IEM doing excellent job with sound-stage BUT the thing is, with "wrong" kind of bad mastered or not "true" live concert like music... so when I give them for example some well recorded live concerts to compare differences between IEM/HP`s, they realize fast that their IEM/HP`s are actually not so natural sounding.
 And then there`s also source gear used to play it which does make difference. For example when I upgraded my Aune T1 components and got high-end tube I suddenly understood that with some recordings my modified HD-681 had run into its own sound-stage limits (depth/layering towards front) and couldn`t play properly out what source gear was capable of. I got X1 and that proved my suspicion - HD-681 was limited in sound-stage reproduction.
 Actually there are so so many things to be considered and in the end this all IEM/HP philia thing is VERY subjective and comes down to 2 main points imho - person`s own preference and how well the mastering/recording of music is done.
  
 I`m by no means sound scientist. Just my simple viewpoint and I`m not here to argue or to prove something. It all subjective in the end.
 If person is happy with the gear and perceived resulting sound, then it`s all that matters!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have found my sound bliss with the gear I have and with ATE. All I and others can do is share some subjective comparison and differences between IEMs with their gear and music (which ppl often do not mention unfortunately in their impressions) to be just some kind of guidance towards what kind of IEM person should lean to with their gear.


----------



## theuprising

Hmm if the MH1 are better than the ED9 I might have to look this up. For real a neutral/sparkly headphone with good soundstage in this price range is pretty crazy. I'm guessing these are a step up from the Monoprice, and moving up you have the Tenore, then Havi, and then the RE400.
  
 I may jump straight to the RE400 next, though I am worried how they respond to a warm amp, I should probably sell it.


----------



## CoiL

Better clarity doesn`t certainly mean they are overall better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Many other things to be considered...


----------



## RedTwilight

nhlean96 said:


> Just got my ANV and ATE, and here are my impressions :
> - The ATE just give me a surprise, good isolation with foam tip and correct placing. Overall is detailed and smooth with punchy bass and deep bass. Good comfort too.
> - The ANV disappointed me, harsh treble and bass is not deep, mid is recessed. Detailed and separation is not good. Maybe it's not suitable for me


 
  
 The ATE was rally quite a surprise. Just got ANV yesterday. Initially was also a little disappointed in the sounds, but then it was a shallow fit.I oushed it in abit and it actually sounded pretty good! So I went back and put a pair of Spinfit tips on and voila! better seal and the harsh tinny treble and weak bass filled out. Treble is now clear without being fatiguing. Can't really tell if the mids are recessed but the bass is quite deep, slightly rumbly and moderately fast. Surprisingly the soundstage is pretty big and deep too. 
  
 Edit: Still burning in but yea mids are a tad behind. Getting slightly V-shaped sound, though not terribly so.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just got the ED10's I must say they sound fairly impressive on first listen. Rolled tips, found that my Large Auvios (Large Bore Sony hybrid Clone) from Radio shack sound best on this Critter.
  
 Now 200Hrs. to ahhhh..... settle, (yeah that's it), them in....
  
 Oh I also got My D2 Pros (Tuna? Version of the Sidy HK-1 Carbon fiber bodied IEM). VERY NICE!!!
  
 Cooking them both together.
  
 Still waiting on KZ Micro Rings to get here, Lost them in Customs in Chicago for a while, they are now on their way from St. Paul. Gotta love our postal system considering Detroit is a couple hundred miles DUE EAST of Chicago!!!! Makes perfect sense to send them to Minnesota.
  








 TWIN


----------



## tsetse7

coil said:


> Better clarity doesn`t certainly mean they are overall better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I said it before, the KZ are pretty good, but I personally prefer my MH1C pair SQ, they seem to do better bass, mid and high. HF reproduction for example in comparison to KZ are more extended, more linear and less harsh. The Sony MH1C need good source and current to sound their best though. I guess they are tuned to my taste, but they do lack the ultimate "out of the head" sound that my full size headphones possess.


----------



## dcpmale

Finally had a 2 hour listening session with my EDSE which is burned in for 100 hours using Jlab burn in file, sine log and pink noise audio files got from here. I don't know that much audiophile terms, so I'm not sure you guys get what I say. In my opinion, EDSE have more details for instrument sounds than my Vsonic GR99 but lack in soundstage depth and co-ordination of vocals and instruments. Clarity is also not that good. ie, EDSE has nice details, but details lacks clarity, if that makes sense. Consider soundstage depth as five layers one in back to another. EDSE will maximum go to the second layer and not beyond that. But my GR99 goes to layer 5 and it is very beautiful to listen and has a natural non-fatiguing experience. I also don't like EDSE's bass because it cause irritation in my ear and don't know how to describe the bass. Even then I'll try in my own terms. Consider bass as three bands on top of each other. Top, bottom and middle. I felt like EDSE's bass only operates in the middle band, the lower band which I can hear in my GR99, which resulted in a more natural and smooth bass experience is missing in EDSE. Overall I liked EDSE more for it's better details than my GR99, but missed GR99's way better sound stage depth and smooth and natural bass. Currently EDSE is my main IEM. Will do a comparison with EDSE vs ED9 vs ATE after 100 hour burn in for both the others.

 Tested using 320 kbps mp3 files with source machine as my Asus ROG laptop with Sonic master sound on Built-in Azalia compliant audio chip(actually don't know what this means) and Xiaomi Redmi 2 Android phone. Audio players used in laptop was Foobar with Wasapi and Jriver Media Center with LAV filters.


----------



## TwinACStacks

The *OBVIOUS* fact we have here IS: a large continuing thread about the merits/ drawbacks of basically Cheap Chinese labor produced disposable $10 Headphones.
  
 That fact in itself, speaks volumes. Yep, the Corksniffers will want to naysay: "they don't have this or they don't have that" or "they just don't compare to these" yada, yada, yada...  *BUT,* the fact remains they are actually quite good, and at their Price/Performance level there is no better value ON THE PLANET.
  
 That's my take on it.
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

The 'Knowledge Zenith' name is proving itself. So many pearls of wisdom in past few pages... haha 
 In a good way of course.


----------



## theuprising

I tried T1e wide-bore eartips with the KZ ed9, and it sounded terrible and destroyed the soundstage. Surprise, surprise, the reason the T1e sounded so bad was the eartips, it sounds great with the Ed9's hybrid tip.
  
 The ED9 seems to have an unnatural drop in the sub-bass, even my warm amp can't fix it without manually EQ'ing the bass, and it sounds loose when raised. The T1e beats the ED9 so far in mid and bass clarity, though its sub bass lacks a bit of texture. Overall I would take the Philips $10 headphones over the T1e, and the ED9 if the music was treble focused.


----------



## kaiteck

Anyone know if this price is realistic or the seller is reliable

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## RedTwilight

kaiteck said:


>





> Anyone know if this price is realistic or the seller is reliable
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


 
  
 Seems ok. The prices are always that unrealistically low. Check out the feedbacks on that page for the seller, but with 33 orders and (8.1% positive feedback it should be ok.


----------



## EISENbricher

KZ ZN1 listed on TaoBao. Mid Aug shipments. 
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=520650103600
  
 Price seems too high, north to $60. I hope they will come down. 
  
 Can someone knowing the language please read and let know if there's  some new information?


----------



## kaiteck

eisenbricher said:


> KZ ZN1 listed on TaoBao. Mid Aug shipments.
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=520650103600
> 
> ...


 
 That's preorder. I don't think thats official seller as it doesnt provide any new info.


----------



## HairyHeadMara

kaiteck said:


> Anyone know if this price is realistic or the seller is reliable
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk




Bought my GR from this seller no problem so far.


----------



## CoiL

Guys, when You quote post with big pictures PLEASE use spoiler! This page has so little text/discussion but is like 10 miles long, my poor scrolling-wheel


----------



## Wokei




----------



## mochill

Lol^^^^^


----------



## DynamikeB

I got the KZ ATE about two weeks ago, and again, as mentioned by many here is this long thread, what a surprise for the price!  Fit reminds me of the ATH IM50, and sound is quite surprising for less than 20.00.  I really like them up to now, but haven't finised tip rolling.  For now, I used Sony hybrids smaller medium tips (orange).  I also put some temporary tape on the vents and the basse is more present, I like it a lot.
  
 They now are top KZ iem.  KZ ATE.  KZ ED8 sounds good too, but they are really heavy, and I don't seem to find a proper fit with them.  It would be an interesting matchup (but different signature) between these two if it weren't for the fit...
  
 KZ DT3 are still special to me with their nice highs and huge lows!  They are light and easy to wear but somewhat fragile.  The mic controle broke for some reason (i was gentle with it...).  The earphones are still working but remote is out...  For someone looking for huge bass and nice overall sound, they kick!
  
 KZ EDSE and KZ GR are the ones I left behind.  EDSE are fine but they sound uneven to me, so really fatiguing.  KZ GR are heavy and sound meh to me.
  
 All imho and personal taste.  Still, for the price, these are great iems to discover and try.


----------



## EISENbricher

dynamikeb said:


> I got the KZ ATE about two weeks ago, and again, as mentioned by many here is this long thread, what a surprise for the price!  Fit reminds me of the ATH IM50, and sound is quite surprising for less than 20.00.  I really like them up to now, but haven't finised tip rolling.  For now, I used Sony hybrids smaller medium tips (orange).  I also put some temporary tape on the vents and the basse is more present, I like it a lot.
> 
> They now are top KZ iem.  KZ ATE.  KZ ED8 sounds good too, but they are really heavy, and I don't seem to find a proper fit with them.  It would be an interesting matchup (but different signature) between these two if it weren't for the fit...
> 
> ...


 
 Thinking of getting a DT3. From your as well as other users' impressions I guess it hits right bells for me...
 I own multiple KZ IEMs (see my signature) but I'm interested in comparison between DT3 and ED8m. For me ED8m fit is not an issue.. Zero Audio tips are great comfort and fit with ED8m. I'm interested in lows. How are DT3 lows compared to ED8m?


----------



## CADCAM

Hello guys, got a question for you. I've been into headphone for a bit now and just purchased my first batch of IEM's (see profile if interested) and I like them all. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. If I had to pick a favorite right now I'd pick the Piston 2 because its clean and clear with good low end. My questions is I have small ears and\or canals and always have to use the small tips. 
 I want to try a Kz IEM but am unsure which one would be best most likely having to use the small tips. I listen from folk to metal genres and have several amps and DAC's to try with them. I'm leaning toward the ED9 but I've read they might be a bit heavy...the ATE look cool but I've never worn the wire above my ear.
 I will be sitting in a comfy chair listening to real Cd's, no computer involved except the one on my lap. I am more of an analytical listener but appreciate good low end. Out of my current crop of full size cans I mainly listen to my HD600 & DT880. 
  
 thank for any and all input
  
 btw at these prices I would be open to getting a couple of models from the Kz line.


----------



## EISENbricher

cadcam said:


> Hello guys, got a question for you. I've been into headphone for a bit now and just purchased my first batch of IEM's (see profile if interested) and I like them all. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. If I had to pick a favorite right now I'd pick the Piston 2 because its clean and clear with good low end. My questions is I have small ears and\or canals and always have to use the small tips.
> I want to try a Kz IEM but am unsure which one would be best most likely having to use the small tips. I listen from folk to metal genres and have several amps and DAC's to try with them. I'm leaning toward the ED9 but I've read they might be a bit heavy...the ATE look cool but I've never worn the wire above my ear.
> I will be sitting in a comfy chair listening to real Cd's, no computer involved except the one on my lap. I am more of an analytical listener but appreciate good low end. Out of my current crop of full size cans I mainly listen to my HD600 & DT880.
> 
> ...



ED9 are heavy for size but not really heavy in true sense as they are so small. You should get those.

ATE has larger diameter nozzles, I don't know how small your ear canals are but since you asked I'm mentioning this.


----------



## r2muchstuff

dynamikeb said:


> I got the KZ ATE about two weeks ago, and again, as mentioned by many here is this long thread, what a surprise for the price!  Fit reminds me of the ATH IM50, and sound is quite surprising for less than 20.00.  I really like them up to now, but haven't finised tip rolling.  For now, I used Sony hybrids smaller medium tips (orange).  I also put some temporary tape on the vents and the basse is more present, I like it a lot.
> 
> They now are top KZ iem.  KZ ATE.  KZ ED8 sounds good too, but they are really heavy, and I don't seem to find a proper fit with them.  It would be an interesting matchup (but different signature) between these two if it weren't for the fit...
> 
> ...


 
  
  


eisenbricher said:


> Thinking of getting a DT3. From your as well as other users' impressions I guess it hits right bells for me...
> I own multiple KZ IEMs (see my signature) but I'm interested in comparison between DT3 and ED8m. For me ED8m fit is not an issue.. Zero Audio tips are great comfort and fit with ED8m. I'm interested in lows. How are DT3 lows compared to ED8m?


 
 I have posted in the past that the KZ DT3 are a great IEM for working around the house and yard.  The extra bass helps block out power equipment noise and they still retain enough detail for good sound.  The fit and light weight are a big plus.  I wear them over the ear with my free and adjustable cinch and they stay in place while moving around.
  
 The ATE are getting more time, I actually have two pair of grays and I cannot discern any differences.  I ordered a silver pair to compare and a ED10.
  
 The KZ SE and ED9 also get ear time.  KZ ES less so and ED3 very little.  What is now KZ DT5 is fun at times.
  
 YMMV
 r2


----------



## CoiL

> Originally Posted by *CADCAM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Piston 2 because its clean and clear with good low end. My questions is I have small ears and\or canals and always have to use the small tips.
> I want to try a Kz IEM but am unsure which one would be best most likely having to use the small tips.


 
 I have Piston 2 and compared to most KZ IEM`s they are not clean/clear and neither with good low end (too enhanced bass which bleeds into mids littlebit). 
  
 I also have small ears and earcanals and must mostly use only smallest tips. I have no problem using ATE with smallest tips but since they are sensitive to tip rolling it can be issue to find good tips and must be worn over-ear they might not fit for Your needs. Personally I find wearing over-ear much more comfy and I can`t use straight-down wearing IEM`s anymore.
  
 My questions to You are:
 1) Are You sensitive to highs? If You are, then ED9 might not fit for Your taste. Though, it can be cured with small-bore tips or foam mod.
 2) Do You prefer littlebit smoothed/laid-back signature for extended listening sessions with no fatigue or very analytical/dry/cold signature which can cause fatigue with longer sessions? In simple rough comparison, ATE is more like HD600 and ED9 more like DT880. Though, If You prefer analytical signature, I would pick ANV.


----------



## kaiteck

coil said:


> I have Piston 2
> I also have small ears and earcanals and must mostly use only smallest tips. I have no problem using ATE with smallest tips but since they are sensitive to tip rolling it can be issue to find good tips and must be worn over-ear they might not fit for Your needs. Personally I find wearing over-ear much more comfy and I can`t use straight-down wearing IEM`s anymore.
> 
> My questions to You are:
> ...




I hope ate is better than piston 2.


----------



## CoiL

Yes, ATE is way better than Piston2 imo. Piston2 has too much emphasis on bass department, sound-stage lot smaller and kind of ʌ-shaped, everything is more congested/closer and less separated, less transparent. Basically, ATE is better in everyhing. After hearing ED9, ATE and ANV... Piston2 is history for me. But I still wish to try Piston3 some day and wood-mod them too.


----------



## kaiteck

coil said:


> Yes, ATE is way better than Piston2 imo. Piston2 has too much emphasis on bass department, sound-stage lot smaller and kind of ʌ-shaped, everything is more congested/closer and less separated, less transparent. Basically, ATE is better in everyhing. After hearing ED9, ATE and ANV... Piston2 is history for me. But I still wish to try Piston3 some day and wood-mod them too.


 
 I had piston 2 and bought piston 3. Disappointed with piston 3 and use back my piston 2.


----------



## CoiL

Disappointed in Piston 3 ? They should be in every way superior to P2 and have great reviews
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe You just have gotten too used to P2 signature?
 What exactly didn`t You like about them? How long did You use them before You gave up on them (brain burn-in also takes time)?
 What source gear do You have? Galaxy S3 can be "limiting" SQ factor probably if that was used to compare.
 Anyway, if You are disappointed in P3 then maybe You should look something with same signature? KZ R35 is very similar to P2.


----------



## Ira Delphic

kaiteck said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, ATE is way better than Piston2 imo. Piston2 has too much emphasis on bass department, sound-stage lot smaller and kind of ʌ-shaped, everything is more congested/closer and less separated, less transparent. Basically, ATE is better in everyhing. After hearing ED9, ATE and ANV... Piston2 is history for me. But I still wish to try Piston3 some day and wood-mod them too.
> ...


 
  
 Me too...but hate the fit of the 3 and the poor sound isolation. What I loved about the 2 is the stock tips are really nice. Overall SQ I prefer 3 over the 2. But fit matters. So ymmv (big time).


----------



## 1clearhead

I have all the different Piston models from Xiaomi (except Piston 3). And, though the Pistons were great in there prime, ATE, ED9, and ED10 are much better in SQ and for a lower price. It also sets a new bar in quality and sound for there price. ATE has way better soundstage and micro-details, ED9 has also great soundstage and vivid clarity on top, and ED10 provides a similar signature to the Pistons 2, but much better in every level.
  
 ....This is just my 2 cents on this matter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I'm hoping more comments will come this way on the ED10's.


----------



## DynamikeB

I don't have ED8m, but just Ed8.  Not sure if it makes a difference.  Remember that I am not a pro in this like you, but I would say that ED8 are more balanced (just in sound, I would qualify them as the better brother of EDSE).
  
 DT3 bass hits all over the lows (sub - mid etc).  It's a huge nice envelopping bass.  I like it though.  I would not say that it veils the mids, even though they are recessed, but they give for sure a nice sense of buttery feel to the other frequencies like the mids.  But it's powering.
  
 ED8 bass is less prominent, but still deliver a nice punch.  Less present but way more than other iems.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## Shadowsora

Spotted this on aliexpress, http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Preheat-KZ-ZN1-headphones-smart-headset-earbuds-original-ZN1-earphone-Noise-Cancelling-bass-auriculares-audifonos-casque/32402454327.html
  
  
 From what it says it has a DAC if it's not a failure in translation(which is likely), so i guess there is an ADC and DAC and an amp? 
 Interesting, the price most likely will fall, for sure not in the regular KZ prices though.
 I am cautiously hyped :3


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


>


 
 Ooh, the old waving evil eye. The gif master is angered the spoiler gods were not consulted before large picture post


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> The *OBVIOUS* fact we have here IS: a large continuing thread about the merits/ drawbacks of basically Cheap Chinese labor produced disposable $10 Headphones.
> 
> That fact in itself, speaks volumes. Yep, the Corksniffers will want to naysay: "they don't have this or they don't have that" or "they just don't compare to these" yada, yada, yada...  *BUT,* the fact remains they are actually quite good, and at their Price/Performance level there is no better value ON THE PLANET.
> 
> ...


 
 Best reply I've seen to date on this thread AC, could apply to a few threads/companies but KZ is just off the hook with what they offer for their prices


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Hello guys, got a question for you. I've been into headphone for a bit now and just purchased my first batch of IEM's (see profile if interested) and I like them all. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. If I had to pick a favorite right now I'd pick the Piston 2 because its clean and clear with good low end. My questions is I have small ears and\or canals and always have to use the small tips.
> I want to try a Kz IEM but am unsure which one would be best most likely having to use the small tips. I listen from folk to metal genres and have several amps and DAC's to try with them. I'm leaning toward the ED9 but I've read they might be a bit heavy...the ATE look cool but I've never worn the wire above my ear.
> I will be sitting in a comfy chair listening to real Cd's, no computer involved except the one on my lap. I am more of an analytical listener but appreciate good low end. Out of my current crop of full size cans I mainly listen to my HD600 & DT880.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not sure your budget CADCAM but if shopped right you can get the ED9,ED10 and ATE for right at $30 US shipped and have an excellent collection of iem's that have a different sig with the 2 filters on ED9's and depending on your DAP EQ options you can really stretch sound signatures and find them all pretty sweet
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That's my story/suggestion/$.02 and I'm sticking to it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I were getting just one I would lean to the ED9 just for the fact the filters can be swapped


----------



## Shadowsora

I believe this has been posted in the past BUT, it caught my eye (alongside ED10/LP3).
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-IE80-Noise-Cancelling-Deep-Sound-3-5mm-In-Ear-Stereo-Music/32370262387.html
  
 Has anyone tried these? It's a direct clone of IE80, everything on them, i wouldn't be surprised even if the same driver is used as if i remember correctly the actual IE80 driver is out there for a very low price(or at least a very good clone of it).


----------



## Podster

shadowsora said:


> I believe this has been posted in the past BUT, it caught my eye (alongside ED10/LP3).
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-IE80-Noise-Cancelling-Deep-Sound-3-5mm-In-Ear-Stereo-Music/32370262387.html
> 
> Has anyone tried these? It's a direct clone of IE80, everything on them, i wouldn't be surprised even if the same driver is used as if i remember correctly the actual IE80 driver is out there for a very low price(or at least a very good clone of it).


 
 Nope but it sure looks like they are using Havi B3 shells
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Blatphamy


----------



## bhazard

shadowsora said:


> I believe this has been posted in the past BUT, it caught my eye (alongside ED10/LP3).
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-High-Quality-Original-KZ-IE80-Noise-Cancelling-Deep-Sound-3-5mm-In-Ear-Stereo-Music/32370262387.html
> 
> Has anyone tried these? It's a direct clone of IE80, everything on them, i wouldn't be surprised even if the same driver is used as if i remember correctly the actual IE80 driver is out there for a very low price(or at least a very good clone of it).


 
 It's not a direct clone, nor the original drivers. It's been available for well over two years and does not have the quality of the recent KZ releases.


----------



## raybone0566

1clearhead said:


> I have all the different Piston models from Xiaomi (except Piston 3). And, though the Pistons were great in there prime, ATE, ED9, and ED10 are much better in SQ and for a lower price. It also sets a new bar in quality and sound for there price. ATE has way better soundstage and micro-details, ED9 has also great soundstage and vivid clarity on top, and ED10 provides a similar signature to the Pistons 2, but much better in every level.
> 
> ....This is just my 2 cents on this matter.
> 
> ...


I agree, ed10's remind me of the sound magic e80, with a little less detail. Excellent low end. Those stiff cables though!


----------



## r2muchstuff

Spent the day painting walls at the rental house.  Listened to:
  
 iPod mini 32GB - FiiO L9 LOD - FiiO E11K (A3) - KZ ED9 and dt3.
 The dt3 win again for this type of use.
 SQ and fit/weight are just right.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## kaiteck

coil said:


> Disappointed in Piston 3 ? They should be in every way superior to P2 and have great reviews
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I got too used to piston 2 sound signature? Maybe. 
Piston 3.. I didn't like the weak isolation and the bass is not strong. I used like... Less than 5hrs? And everytime i wear it for a walk, it dropped from my ears many times which is reallly annoying.

 How dafuq did u know im using galaxy s3 ... Lmao dude its $20iem.... If galaxy s3 is the limiting factor... I guess ill nvr buy other iems @_@ Well guess i shall stick to my piston 2 and call it a day~...

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## chavez

kaiteck said:


> I got too used to piston 2 sound signature? Maybe.
> Piston 3.. I didn't like the weak isolation and the bass is not strong. I used like... Less than 5hrs? And everytime i wear it for a walk, it dropped from my ears many times which is reallly annoying.
> 
> How dafuq did u know im using galaxy s3... Lmao dude its $20iem.... If galaxy s3 is the limiting factor... I guess ill nvr buy other iems @@ oh.. Well guess i shall stick to my piston 2 and call it a day~...
> ...




You listed your source on your profile page and tapatalk writes your signatures, where it says from what device it was sent. Maybe you can be more polite next time, maybe Coil can be twice your age.


----------



## kaiteck

chavez said:


> You listed your source on your profile page and tapatalk writes your signatures, where it says from what device it was sent. Maybe you can be more polite next time, maybe Coil can be twice your age.


 
 Polite? I'm sorry if i sound rude. I was just shocked. Didn't mean to scold or anything. And yes. I'm very young. So forgive me if i sound immature ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ﻿​


----------



## Wokei

kaiteck said:


> Polite? I'm sorry if i sound rude. I was just shocked. Didn't mean to scold or anything. And yes. I'm very young. So forgive me if i sound immature ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ﻿​






It's all good


----------



## martino416

Purchased 2 KZ ANV accidentally , so if anyone in Toronto Ontario wants to pick up a pair locally or have it shipped let me know.


----------



## EISENbricher

kaiteck said:


> I got too used to piston 2 sound signature? Maybe.
> Piston 3.. I didn't like the weak isolation and the bass is not strong. I used like... Less than 5hrs? And everytime i wear it for a walk, it dropped from my ears many times which is reallly annoying.
> 
> How dafuq did u know im using galaxy s3 ... Lmao dude its $20iem.... If galaxy s3 is the limiting factor... I guess ill nvr buy other iems @_@ Well guess i shall stick to my piston 2 and call it a day~...
> ...



Never really understood the logic of huge source dependency, especially in this thread where we discuss KZ IEMs. 

If you find x earphone sounding better than y then your source is culprit? No, must be your sound preference, earphone fit and possible manufacturing defects. 

I'm strictly voicing this opinion under context of this thread. In case of high end earphones I've seen that source is a factor of much larger magnitude.


----------



## RedTwilight

eisenbricher said:


> Never really understood the logic of huge source dependency, especially in this thread where we discuss KZ IEMs.
> 
> If you find x earphone sounding better than y then your source is culprit? No, must be your sound preference, earphone fit and possible manufacturing defects.
> 
> I'm strictly voicing this opinion under context of this thread. In case of high end earphones I've seen that source is a factor of much larger magnitude.




I second the fit issues. Initial listening with the ed9 and anv were pretty bad, harsh and no bass. I was wondering they had been vastly overhyped lol. However, ed9 sounded really good when I pushed them deeper (though still a little too bright and thin for me). For anv, owing to the shape, i couldn't really push them deeper so ended up using spinfits for better seal. Now they're my favourites alongside the Havi. Sound is perfect after relatively increasing the mids by 4dB.


----------



## Majin

redtwilight said:


> I second the fit issues. Initial listening with the ed9 and anv were pretty bad, harsh and no bass. I was wondering they had been vastly overhyped lol. However, ed9 sounded really good when I pushed them deeper (though still a little too bright and thin for me). For anv, owing to the shape, i couldn't really push them deeper so ended up using spinfits for better seal. Now they're my favourites alongside the Havi. Sound is perfect after relatively increasing the mids by 4dB.


 
  
 Ye getting the correct eartips is really crucial. I tried the ED9 with the included tips but they all had extremely poor fit, so i had to use my shure olives. Now they are my favorite budget IEM.


----------



## raybone0566

eisenbricher said:


> Never really understood the logic of huge source dependency, especially in this thread where we discuss KZ IEMs.
> 
> If you find x earphone sounding better than y then your source is culprit? No, must be your sound preference, earphone fit and possible manufacturing defects.
> 
> I'm strictly voicing this opinion under context of this thread. In case of high end earphones I've seen that source is a factor of much larger magnitude.


I agree, i believe fit & tip selection are the main factors in sound. i get the best performance with my kz's from my spiral dot's. But with my sound magics i use comply's. It's all trial & error. It's also what this hobby so enjoyable, cheers


----------



## Wokei

majin said:


> Ye getting the correct eartips is really crucial. I tried the ED9 with the included tips but they all had extremely poor fit, so i had to use my shure olives. Now they are my favorite budget IEM.







raybone0566 said:


> I agree, i believe fit & tip selection are the main factors in sound. i get the best performance with my kz's from my spiral dot's. But with my sound magics i use comply's. It's all trial & error. It's also what this hobby so enjoyable, cheers






Also the shape of our ears...for the life of me..could never get double or triple flange tip to work for me..lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Also the shape of our ears...for the life of me..could never get double or triple flange tip to work for me..lol




I'm right there with you on that one Wokei. They never seem to fit right. Half the time the tip kinks preventing any sound at all. The only multi-flange tip I've been able to use is the triple flange that comes with the silver Piston 2.0


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> My questions to You are:
> 1) Are You sensitive to highs? If You are, then ED9 might not fit for Your taste. Though, it can be cured with small-bore tips or foam mod.
> 2) Do You prefer littlebit smoothed/laid-back signature for extended listening sessions with no fatigue or very analytical/dry/cold signature which can cause fatigue with longer sessions? In simple rough comparison, ATE is more like HD600 and ED9 more like DT880. Though, If You prefer analytical signature, I would pick ANV.


 
 Hello CoiL,
 1- Not sensitive to highs but appreciate an accurate clean high end with good detail. If the highs are unclean or sound like bacon frying I'm done.
 2- That's a tough one as I enjoy my DT880 as well as my HD600. I would have to say I do listen to my HD600 at a higher percentage than my DT880's. 
  
 I have a Beresford Capella amp that has a gain knob that I find helpful with IEM's so I could potentially listen to any IEM. I notice some hiss present with IEM's. 
  
 I usually buy from Amazon or ebay but notice some very low pricing on aliexpress any recommendations on sellers?
  
 thank you~


----------



## altrunox

So ED10 is worth?


----------



## CADCAM

OK just ordered the Kz ED9 & ANV hopefully they will be to my liking.
 Got them from 2 different sellers but both have Shenzhen in the name and I heard this is a reputable seller so...keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## CADCAM

Man I hope the Kz earphones sound great...been listening to IEM's for a week or so and just switched to my DT880's and they sound so much more refined with sublime bass...I know it's not fair and I'm not expecting the Kz to match the Beyers but I didn't realize difference in SQ.


----------



## 1clearhead

altrunox said:


> So ED10 is worth?


 

 Well worth it, plus "2". I have a second one reserved for future use.


----------



## Danielius

Hello folks. I accidently found KZ EDR1 earbuds while were looking for cable for my custom earbuds (lol), and I was impressed by the quality they give for such funny price (have not purchased them, that's what I saw in pictures, at least), secondly found on youtube guy that have reviewed them and all I heard was wow. Are they really as good and are comparable for example with earpods that are cheap too, but play well (for the price ;p). I know I can find answer in this threat, but it is 351 pages lol.


----------



## EISENbricher

danielius said:


> Hello folks. I accidently found KZ EDR1 earbuds while were looking for cable for my custom earbuds (lol), and I was impressed by the quality they give for such funny price (have not purchased them, that's what I saw in pictures, at least), secondly found on youtube guy that have reviewed them and all I heard was wow. Are they really as good and are comparable for example with earpods that are cheap too, but play well (for the price ;p). I know I can find answer in this threat, but it is 351 pages lol.



EDR1 are basically EDSE or ED2. While it's still not clear what's the sonic difference between these, common verdict is that they are really good for their price. I own EDSE and I still love it. 
I've seen EDR1 offers too and they are priced even lower than EDSE. I recommend one, at least be assured that with KZ you are guaranteed an unbelievable price to performance ratio.


----------



## Danielius

eisenbricher said:


> EDR1 are basically EDSE or ED2. While it's still not clear what's the sonic difference between these, common verdict is that they are really good for their price. I own EDSE and I still love it.
> I've seen EDR1 offers too and they are priced even lower than EDSE. I recommend one, at least be assured that with KZ you are guaranteed an unbelievable price to performance ratio.


 
 What about other KZ models? Which one would you prefer in terms of sound quality (if you own more of them as many out there do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)? ED10 looks goood


----------



## TwinACStacks

I'm REALLY Liking these KZ Micro Rings. a little tough to figure out how to get tips on them, and make them stay in the correct position relative to the tip opening and barrel end,  but TWIN figured it out. I cut a couple spacer rings maybe about 2mm wide out of a pair of wide bore sennheiser tips on the barrel side, Then slid them onto the Micro ring barrels. Then when you put on a pair of wide bore tips it makes the Nozzles stay recessed in the tip about 1mm from the end. Works like a charm.
  
 I also found the best results with these to be Foams. Odd, just like the Flare R2A with a similar pencil shape.....
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

danielius said:


> What about other KZ models? Which one would you prefer in terms of sound quality (if you own more of them as many out there do :etysmile: )? ED10 looks goood



My current favorite is ATE since it's non fatiguing and has smooth, warm, still fairly detail sound which I prefer. Currently ED9 and ATE are best KZs to buy imo. ED10 is also very good but I haven't yet personally tried it. Will do when I receive it. Won't be longer than 3-4 days.

I'd say get all 3 if you can. They complement each other well.


----------



## Shadowsora

I want ED10 for collective reasons(I don't doubt that it's good but i don't think it will top ATE, at least for me), and can't order anything due to capital controls and general issues in Greece.
 They said ED10 production was a limited one too, sigh.
 *Crossing fingers* I hope I will be able to order on by the middle of the week.


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> I'm REALLY Liking these KZ Micro Rings. a little tough to figure out how to get tips on them, and make them stay in the correct position relative to the tip opening and barrel end,  but TWIN figured it out. I cut a couple spacer rings maybe about 2mm wide out of a pair of wide bore sennheiser tips on the barrel side, Then slid them onto the Micro ring barrels. Then when you put on a pair of wide bore tips it makes the Nozzles stay recessed in the tip about 1mm from the end. Works like a charm.
> 
> I also found the best results with these to be Foams. Odd, just like the Flare R2A with a similar pencil shape.....
> 
> TWIN




Glad to hear you like the Micro. I've been listening to them more again since I got a pair of EPH-100 replicas to compare them too. The Micro Ring is such a good all-round daily use iem. Just wish they were a little more durable.


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Glad to hear you like the Micro. I've been listening to them more again since I got a pair of EPH-100 replicas to compare them too. The Micro Ring is such a good all-round daily use iem. Just wish they were a little more durable.


 





 They have VERY good detail, I'm liking them alot.  I'm not as impressed with the D2 Pros I got, (which are clones of the SIDY HK-1 Carbon fibers), though. The D2s are Bassy, (veiled?), and quite Flat with not as good detail, probably because of their Dark signature.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> They have VERY good detail, I'm liking them alot.  I'm not as impressed with the D2 Pros I got, (which are clones of the SIDY HK-1 Carbon fibers), though. The D2s are Bassy, (veiled?), and quite Flat with not as good detail, probably because of their Dark signature.
> 
> TWIN




They do offer up quite a bit of detail. I've been humming and hawing on getting those Sidy rebrands. One store on AliExpress has had them for 16 USD for a while now.

I recently picked up a pair of EHP-100 replicas and will be posting a quick comparo between them, the Micro Ring, and the JVC HA-FRD60. All can be found for around 30 USD or less, and offer up their own unique signatures. If you are a fan like I am of these in-canal designs, they're all worth owning  Should be putting the comparo up today.


----------



## Wokei

TwinACStacks..KZ Fan of the Month...woot woot woot


----------



## B9Scrambler

Comparo is up! 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/775082/budget-canalphone-comparo-kz-vs-yamaha-replica-vs-jvc


----------



## hinfla

Anyone know if these are a genuine seller?


----------



## hinfla

Anyone know if these are genuine?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/1112149_32322495771.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

hinfla said:


> Anyone know if these are genuine?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/1112149_32322495771.html




Probably. Excellent feedback.


----------



## CADCAM

I ordered ANV's from Swallow(Shenzhen)Electronics Co.,LtdStore No.1413064 on aliexpress
 Because I've read Shenzen as a good seller...any opinions???


----------



## gtrx333

cadcam said:


> I ordered ANV's from Swallow(Shenzhen)Electronics Co.,LtdStore No.1413064 on aliexpress
> Because I've read Shenzen as a good seller...any opinions???


 
 I was trying to order a second ANV (as my first was not 100% working) but the aliexpress shop (a different one), said they were out of stock (after I had already placed my order).  Hopefully the one you posted has stock. They have really inflated the prices on the other stores.


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> Well worth it, plus "2". I have a second one reserved for future use.


 

 I second 1Clear on this, just got my new pair of ED-10's ($8.46 Delivered) and man they have some thump on the bottom end that neither my ED9's nor ATE's have and I'm liking them right out the package on my iPhone 6.
  
 CADCAM, I'm thinking you are going to like the KZ's but they are not going to be DT880's at any point
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But a good fit with the right tips and you should be enjoying some mobile listening


----------



## Shadowsora

Anyone using Viper4Android on their smartphone and have Kz Ate i suggest them to choose the Ath-im70 dcc profile.

P.S I would use spoiler for this normally but I write from my phone.


----------



## RedTwilight

cadcam said:


> I ordered ANV's from Swallow(Shenzhen)Electronics Co.,LtdStore No.1413064 on aliexpress
> Because I've read Shenzen as a good seller...any opinions???


 
  
 Shenzhen is the name of the city that the factories are based actually. It's pretty much the tech capital of China. As far as I know the OEM for KX is this company called Shenzhen Yuan Ze. I think it's this one:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
  
 Then again a lot of people buy from different stores and have no issues. The only issues tend to be QC related.


----------



## anticute

My ED10 has arrived, waiting at me at the post office, I'm looking forward to trying them out after work


----------



## CoiL

Ok, for the sake of comparison I`ll be ordering ED10 too but according to impressions I have no high hopes, they seem like little V-shaped and bass oriented "fun" signature.
 EISEN, have You received Yours? How are they compared to ED9 & ATE?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Ok, for the sake of comparison I`ll be ordering ED10 too but according to impressions I have no high hopes, they seem like little V-shaped and bass oriented "fun" signature.
> EISEN, have You received Yours? How are they compared to ED9 & ATE?


 
 They are very near, in regional post office, just a level above local post office. I should have received my ED10 by now... just slow Indian post business....
  


redtwilight said:


> Shenzhen is the name of the city that the factories are based actually. It's pretty much the tech capital of China. As far as I know the OEM for KX is this company called Shenzhen Yuan Ze. I think it's this one:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152


 
 +1


----------



## Adonai

Got mine!


----------



## anxonic

Anyone tried out the KZ DT3 yet? Build quality seems nice.


----------



## B9Scrambler

anxonic said:


> Anyone tried out the KZ DT3 yet? Build quality seems nice.




There are lots of impressions earlier on in the thread.


----------



## anxonic

> There are lots of impressions earlier on in the thread.


 
 Ah, ok. Sorry, noob mistake. I'll check back, thanks!


----------



## CADCAM

redtwilight said:


> Shenzhen is the name of the city that the factories are based actually. It's pretty much the tech capital of China. As far as I know the OEM for KX is this company called Shenzhen Yuan Ze. I think it's this one:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
> 
> Then again a lot of people buy from different stores and have no issues. The only issues tend to be QC related.


 
 Oh... OK thanks for that. I hope this is a reputable seller I'd like a good representation of how this hp actually sounds. If there are issue's with this seller I'll post here so others know.


----------



## B9Scrambler

anxonic said:


> Ah, ok. Sorry, noob mistake. I'll check back, thanks!




Lol, no worries. This thread is stupidly long. Easy to overlook. Would have posted links but I'm on my phone ATM.


----------



## theuprising

These things looked so well built, I was very surprised when my ED9 broke 2 days in, well before my T1e no less which I abuse daily.


----------



## Arsis

theuprising said:


> These things looked so well built, I was very surprised when my ED9 broke 2 days in, well before my T1e no less which I abuse daily.


Where did it break?


----------



## CADCAM

theuprising said:


> These things looked so well built, I was very surprised when my ED9 broke 2 days in, well before my T1e no less which I abuse daily.


 
 Any seller info?


----------



## theuprising

cadcam said:


> Any seller info?


 
 It was the ED9 fullfilled by Amazon, I can return it thankfully.
  
@Arsis
 The right ear became quieter and quieter until you can hardly hear anything even with channel balancers.


----------



## CADCAM

theuprising said:


> It was the ED9 fullfilled by Amazon, I can return it thankfully.
> 
> @Arsis
> The right ear became quieter and quieter until you can hardly hear anything even with channel balancers.


 
 Smart move... I usually order everything from Amazon as well but tried aliexpress for the ED9 & ANV... if there's any issue's I'll just order from Amazon only from now on. I saved 8 bucks but that's not worth it if you have to deal with bs.
 Fingers crossed. Howd they sound when they worked?


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Smart move... I usually order everything from Amazon as well but tried aliexpress for the ED9 & ANV... if there's any issue's I'll just order from Amazon only from now on. I saved 8 bucks but that's not worth it if you have to deal with bs.
> Fingers crossed. Howd they sound when they worked?


 

 I have eight pages of past and present orders on AliExpress and have only had one bad item in all those purchases from different sellers. Had a $16 waterproof DAP/FM only play the FM no matter what I did with controls, loaded it to the max with files however they won't play through the headphone out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can plug the headphone out to USB into CPU and play the files off the HDD but just can't get those files to play from the player through the phones so it's just FM while swimming! I have had some minor QC problems with the KZ's but nothing I could not correct or deal with.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Finally! A functioning pair of CM9s arrived  Fourth time is a charm I guess.
  
 They are not at all what I was expecting, which was something ED3-like; treble and upper-mid heavy, with little bass. They are in fact the exact opposite; stupidly sub-bass heavy with smooth but recessed treble and mids. They are very clear, detailed, and spacious sounding, but the bass is just intense. These are easily the most bass heavy (sub-bass especially) KZs I own. Not sure how I feel about them yet...
  
 On another note, as compensation for botching my ATE order, the KZ store sent me two of their new cases (my requested compensation). They're not bad, but the old round case is better; more spacious and better built. These look sweet though (my pic sucks...).


----------



## CADCAM

Just tried some different tips on my E300's and what a difference! I really didn't like this hp much but the tip change made a major difference in sound and now it's much better.
 Any opinions on ordering some replacement tips as I have zero experience with IEM not to mention replacement tips. My ears are small and I've been using the standard soft rubber tips that come with earphones... usually always the small size. I have the ED9 & ANV on the way.


----------



## TwinACStacks

AS good as these KZ Earphones are, I just received The Trinity DELTAS from the Trinity Audio Kickstarter......
  
  
*WOW. *
I Am Speechless








 TWIN


----------



## chavez

twinacstacks said:


> AS good as these KZ Earphones are, I just received The Trinity DELTAS from the Trinity Audio Kickstarter......
> 
> 
> *WOW. *
> ...


 
  
 Not all of us can afford them. Glad you are satisfied with your purchase  .


----------



## TwinACStacks

That wasn't meant as a put down Chavez, I dearly love the KZ's as well. I just had to tell someone, how elated and yes, fortunate, I am to be able to spare the money for them. As I truly hope for Your own good fortune sometime in the very near future.
  
 I am truly Blessed.
  








 TWIN


----------



## chavez

twinacstacks said:


> That wasn't meant as a put down Chavez, I dearly love the KZ's as well. I just had to tell someone, how elated and yes, fortunate, I am to be able to spare the money for them. As I truly hope for Your own good fortune sometime in the very near future.
> 
> I am truly Blessed.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks grandpa


----------



## jj69

b9scrambler said:


> On another note, as compensation for botching my ATE order, the KZ store sent me two of their new cases (my requested compensation). They're not bad, but the old round case is better; more spacious and better built. These look sweet though (my pic sucks...).


 
  
 Do your KZ cases smell like a tire fire like mine do?


----------



## amskhan

Would you recommend the kz ate or one of the other kz for electronic/dub step music. Also how is the fit and the tips. Im seing more talk about the other kz products on here, and was considering getting an ate before but now idk.


----------



## TwinACStacks

amskhan said:


> Would you recommend the kz ate or one of the other kz for electronic/dub step music. Also how is the fit and the tips. Im seing more talk about the other kz products on here, and was considering getting an ate before but now idk.


 





 Generally all the KZ's are quite Bass Heavy. All of mine do EDM QUITE well.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

chavez said:


> Thanks grandpa


 





 You're welcome you young whippersnapper....
  








 TWIN


----------



## amskhan

Im leaning towards the kz ate because they look to have better fit for jogging and gym, but also for daily use.


----------



## RedTwilight

amskhan said:


> Im leaning towards the kz ate because they look to have better fit for jogging and gym, but also for daily use.


 
  
 The wires are pretty light and springy, even with the brass weights so they may pop over your ears if you bob while jogging. Those silicon earhooks that are on aliexpress do mitigate it to some degree though.


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> Generally all the KZ's are quite Bass Heavy.


 
 No! ANV, ED9 (brass), ATE - none of those are bass heavy. They do EDM ok but they are not bass heavy by any means.


----------



## CoiL

amskhan said:


> Im leaning towards the kz ate because they look to have better fit for jogging and gym, but also for daily use.


 
 ATE good part for EDM is its soundstage but by sound signature/music genre, I would take ED9 and maybe even use gold filters for EDM.


----------



## EISENbricher

redtwilight said:


> The wires are pretty light and springy, even with the brass weights so they may pop over your ears if you bob while jogging. Those silicon earhooks that are on aliexpress do mitigate it to some degree though.


 
 ATE comes with a pair of silicone earhooks. I received one with mine.


----------



## CoiL

Where did You order from Eisen? I didn`t get any ear-hooks/wire guides with my pair.


----------



## Horton

coil said:


> Where did You order from Eisen? I didn`t get any ear-hooks/wire guides with my pair.


 
 This store with ear-hooks/wire guides http://group.aliexpress.com/brandDetail.htm?spm=2114.7749990.100213.13.6TdAD0&catId=70806
 But didn't thinks it is useful. Suggest is like memory cable. But they said it is just with a wire so that is called "memory cable". How about your mind of these two kinds headphones like ATE's cable, and other "memory cable" ear hook headphone? I hope they could send me headphone case. haha


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Where did You order from Eisen? I didn`t get any ear-hooks/wire guides with my pair.


 
 Ordered mine from official KZ shop (Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics).
 (that initial ~9$ silver ATE deal).


----------



## gtrx333

amskhan said:


> Im leaning towards the kz ate because they look to have better fit for jogging and gym, but also for daily use.


 
  


redtwilight said:


> The wires are pretty light and springy, even with the brass weights so they may pop over your ears if you bob while jogging. Those silicon earhooks that are on aliexpress do mitigate it to some degree though.


 
 You definitely need the earhooks as they jump and bounce too much when running. The only way I could finish my run with them was to tuck them under my glasses. The best solution on the cheap IMO is the bendy metal wire you get on the meelec m6 pro. Once you have that shaped to your ear, it keeps rigid and does not move at all.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> ATE good part for EDM is its soundstage but by sound signature/music genre, I would take ED9 and maybe even use gold filters for EDM.


 






 Coil, You and I hear things quite differently I'm Guessing. The ED9 is the Brightest IEM  of the KZs that I have heard. I'm at the point that It's too fatiquing for me to listen to for any long period. I like the EDSE or ATE much better for Extended listening.
  








 TWIN


----------



## r2muchstuff

anxonic said:


> Anyone tried out the KZ DT3 yet? Build quality seems nice.


 
 They are very light weight, fit well and work very well for my yard/house chore listening.  More bass than some KZ and details are enough to keep them enjoyable during the task at hand.  Not my fav for just listening.
  


b9scrambler said:


> ....
> 
> On another note, as compensation for botching my ATE order, the KZ store sent me two of their new cases (my requested compensation). They're not bad, but the old round case is better; more spacious and better built. These look sweet though (my pic sucks...).


 
 I  now use several, the round ones are nicer but these stack and store well.  I left mine in the southern USA sun for a day and now no smells.


redtwilight said:


> The wires are pretty light and springy, even with the brass weights so they may pop over your ears if you bob while jogging. Those silicon earhooks that are on aliexpress do mitigate it to some degree though.


 
 I find adding a cinch works better than the hooks, I wear glasses.  Try my free and adjustable cinch:

  
 YMMV,
 r2
  
 PS
 KZ Official Store order of ED10, RX, and silver ATE arrived


----------



## 1clearhead

twinacstacks said:


> Coil, You and I hear things quite differently I'm Guessing. The ED9 is the Brightest IEM  of the KZs that I have heard. I'm at the point that It's too fatiquing for me to listen to for any long period. I like the EDSE or ATE much better for Extended listening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*Ironically, both of you are correct....*
  
 While I hear the ATE's as well behaved in the bass sector with great soundstage and clarity even noticing micro-details on top my friend at work hears them as bass-heavy. Ear canals, whether is width, depth, small, medium, large, and different ear-tips can change everyone's perception on what they're hearing.
  
 .....just my 2 cents. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 @TWIN,
  
 Have you tried the ED10's yet? Are they off the burner? What's your take by far?


----------



## RedTwilight

r2muchstuff said:


> They are very light weight, fit well and work very well for my yard/house chore listening.  More bass than some KZ and details are enough to keep them enjoyable during the task at hand.  Not my fav for just listening.
> 
> I  now use several, the round ones are nicer but these stack and store well.  I left mine in the southern USA sun for a day and now no smells.
> I find adding a cinch works better than the hooks, I wear glasses.  Try my free and adjustable cinch:
> ...




Ooh that cinch actually looks pretty slick! I used the included velcro tie haha..


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Generally all the KZ's are quite Bass Heavy. All of mine do EDM QUITE well.
> 
> TWIN




Have you tried the ED3? Those are pretty bass-lite. They share that EDse/ED9 signature, but lack the bass. Quite a nice earphone.


----------



## DynamikeB

KZ ATE is growing on me.  I taped shut the vents and it gives a nice push to the bass.  Nice detailed sound.  What a value!  My favorite KZ so far.


----------



## theuprising

b9scrambler said:


> Have you tried the ED3? Those are pretty bass-lite. They share that EDse/ED9 signature, but lack the bass. Quite a nice earphone.


 
 Lol ed9 is supposed to have bass? Mine was definitely defective from day 1 then.


----------



## r2muchstuff

b9scrambler said:


> Have you tried the ED3? Those are pretty bass-lite. They share that EDse/ED9 signature, but lack the bass. Quite a nice earphone.


 

 I put the ED 3 away some time ago and have not listened to them since, I am going to tonight.
 I remember putting them away because they were mainly bass.  Now I have to know if my perception has changed or my memory wrong.
  
 Thanks,
  
 r2


----------



## bhazard

Just got the ED10. With the whirlwind blue tips it stays in my ears while running and sounds excellent. Another $8 winner.
  
 They have the normal KZ bass push, clear vocals, good instrument separation, and mediocre treble extension.. which means they sound like most IEMs that are around $40 domestically.
  
 I'm honestly not sure if I like the ATE or ED10 better. Both are very good as they are. The ED9 requires mods to the nozzles to sound their best. They are either too bass light or too bass heavy as is.


----------



## SWLIU

theuprising said:


> Lol ed9 is supposed to have bass? Mine was definitely defective from day 1 then.


 
 ED9 + Gold Nozzle + Comply T400 tips give enough bass for EDM for me


----------



## B9Scrambler

I brought the CM9 and my replica EPH-100 to work today. While swapping iems, I noticed a very interesting thing; they sport the exact same cable. Too bad it's somewhat "meh".


----------



## anticute

swliu said:


> ED9 + Gold Nozzle + Comply T400 tips give enough bass for EDM for me


 
 This. Also, if you want even more bass (although at a bit of a cost on other things), you can try pushing the comply tip all the way up over the nozzle, so that it's flush to the IEM body. Try it out


----------



## fullmoon280

Currently considering buying the ates and i need a little help before i buy them. Im looking at the silver and black versions on amazon and i dont know which to pick, either http://www.amazon.com/Copper-Driver-Headphones-Running-Eartips/dp/B00ZPEHYRS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1437605518&sr=8-2&keywords=kz+ate or http://www.amazon.com/Earphone-Headphones-Running-Eartips-Microphone/dp/B00Y0F6IBG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437605518&sr=8-1&keywords=kz+ate . Is there a difference other than color? Has anyone bought these from amazon cause the silver says it has the ear hooks but the black doesnt mention this. Do the blacks also come with the hooks or is it only the silver? Or am i reading this entirely wrong and neither come with it.


----------



## TwinACStacks

1clearhead said:


> *Ironically, both of you are correct....*
> 
> While I hear the ATE's as well behaved in the bass sector with great soundstage and clarity even noticing micro-details on top my friend at work hears them as bass-heavy. Ear canals, whether is width, depth, small, medium, large, and different ear-tips can change everyone's perception on what they're hearing.
> 
> ...


 





 Yep. Great Bass, a little soft. I'm hearing (so Far) Recessed Mids on Vocals. Treble isn't prominent or recessed. I think you will like them. I've had to suspend their burn -in @ 92 Hours, (yes I keep burn-in logs),  in favor of the Flare R2As being on the cooker. It's Really a shame when you have MORE iems Breaking in, than sources.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the Burner I currently have KZ Micro Rings, D2 Pro (sidy HK1 clone),KZ  ED10s, Trinity Deltas, Flare Audio R2As.
  
 I'm also considering the Fidue A73s.
  








 TWIN


----------



## anticute

Don't know if this has been posted in English before.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Preheat-KZ-ZN1-headphones-smart-headset-earbuds-original-ZN1-earphone-Noise-Cancelling-bass-auriculares-audifonos-casque/32402454327.html
  


> intelligent alerts when users set the volume exceeds the maximum, the headset will alert and inform the user sound too loud may damage your hearing. When users use a headset in a row more than 90 minutes, the headset will alert and inform the user needs proper rest to avoid ear fatigue.


 
  
 Now isn't that everything you've ever wanted from a sound setup, can't imagine that getting annoying or anything...


----------



## Horton

anticute said:


> Don't know if this has been posted in English before.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Preheat-KZ-ZN1-headphones-smart-headset-earbuds-original-ZN1-earphone-Noise-Cancelling-bass-auriculares-audifonos-casque/32402454327.html
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 wow, seems fine, but I still didn't konw if this headphone could be built in amps headphone? Or if worth 80$
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, if worth than buy amps myself. If there is not extra function, seems the sound is most important.I will wait someone's review. Or if there is any headphone like this named "ZN1" headphone?


----------



## EISENbricher

horton said:


> wow, seems fine, but I still didn't konw if this headphone could be built in amps headphone? Or if worth 80$
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Horton, you are Member of the Trade for KZ... you should have close contacts with the company and we expect you to bring more information about the new products.


----------



## anticute

eisenbricher said:


> Horton, you are Member of the Trade for KZ... you should have close contacts with the company and we expect you to bring more information about the new products.


 

 +1
  
 And review samples, of course


----------



## lesp4ul

Edited


----------



## kaiteck

i see no pic


----------



## lesp4ul

Sorry, my cell sucks...



Guess I'm late to ED9 hype coz mine just arrived :/ but the seller is very generous. this is what i got.

Btw i like gold nozzle + spinfit tips paired with my hidizs ap100. Very good purchase


----------



## lesp4ul

Sorry for multiple posts


----------



## mochill

spinfits ^^^


----------



## CoiL

I just received my blue/grey "whirlwind" silicone tips in L/M/S sizes and *for those who have small ears and earcanals* but find ATE nozzle too thick - these are a must have imho! 
 Before I used ED9 smallest silicones which gave best fit and sound (medium bore). With those "whirlwinds" I get full-deep insertion now and silicone is very soft without causing any irritation/discomfort in ear-canal. They have very large bore that fits ATE nozzle perfectly and also nozzle tip-stopping edge is perfect fit.
 Edit: These *smallest* whirlwind tips do not come bundled with KZ IEM`s and must be ordered separately!
  
 Here`s a fast pic:

  
 This is my collection of best silicone tips for small ears/ear-canals:

  
 I use white ones (with spacer rings) for ED9 because they are ultra soft and "contract" easily deep inside ear-canal.
  
 Btw, for those who wonder why I still have stock cable on ATE - I`m having order-issues with mmcx connectors. I already have female sockets but they sent me wrong angled mmcx males. I let them order again new ones but now they sent me *m*cx straight connector! -.- I`m so tired dealing with that shop. 
 And now I have dilemma, those *m*cx connectors I got are high-quality amphenols which makes me think about ordering mcx females too. 
 Wanted to make this all cheap as possible but so far it has cost me quite a lot and wasted my time -.- I think I will just order from UK eBay and be done with this connector-circus.


----------



## Podster

lesp4ul said:


> Sorry, my cell sucks...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice, not sure what you paid for your ED9's but I paid $2.98 a piece for my KZ cases


----------



## Shadowsora

@Coil, I saw ED10 comes with those "whirlwind" eartips, I want to order ED10... BUT STILL no clue when will the Greek goverment allow payments towards foreign countries, I can't charge paypal and can't use my debit card for any payment outside of Greece, I am going crazy...


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, I know that ED10 comes with those tips but do they come with smallest ones included?
 So far I haven`t seen those smallest ones included with KZ IEM`s. But maybe I`m wrong and I just haven`t noticed it.
 Anyway, those "whirlwind" tips were cheap and cost me ~2$ for 2 sets.


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> Yeah, I know that ED10 comes with those tips but do they come with smallest ones included?
> So far I haven`t seen those smallest ones included with KZ IEM`s. But maybe I`m wrong and I just haven`t noticed it.
> Anyway, those "whirlwind" tips were cheap and cost me ~2$ for 2 sets.


 
 You are right, I thought it was a full set of those.
 Well I will make sure to include a set of those on my next order, I have small earcanals too so they look really comfortable IMO.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Yeah, I know that ED10 comes with those tips but do they come with smallest ones included?
> So far I haven`t seen those smallest ones included with KZ IEM`s. But maybe I`m wrong and I just haven`t noticed it.
> Anyway, those "whirlwind" tips were cheap and cost me ~2$ for 2 sets.


 
 I also have small ears\canals and would like to purchase the whirlwind tips, where did you get them please.


----------



## CADCAM

OK haven't even received my ED9 or ANV but just hit order on the ED10...couldn't help myself at that price...this hobby is addicting.


----------



## lesp4ul

podster said:


> lesp4ul said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, my cell sucks...
> ...




I paid $12.9 for one ED9


----------



## CoiL

cadcam said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I know that ED10 comes with those tips but do they come with smallest ones included?
> ...


 

 Here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3-Pairs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Tips-Earbuds-Headphones-Eartips/32333783387.html


----------



## anxonic

coil said:


> Here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3-Pairs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Tips-Earbuds-Headphones-Eartips/32333783387.html


 
  
 Slightly cheaper here - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3-Pairs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Tips-Earbuds-Headphones-Silicone-Eartips-For-KZ-ED10/32394587711.html


----------



## CoiL

LOL, that difference is almost none  And I think the place where I bought promotion time is over, I got them while they were 0.99$ for set.


----------



## Shadowsora

enuma-elis said:


> Not KZ, but dual driver for $16 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-VJJB-V1-In-ear-Metal-Earphone-Earbud-with-without-microphone-Twin-Turbo-High-Quality/32404835678.html . Anyone gonna try?


 
 In the chinese brand forum there are some guys who have them, I think @EISENbricher have them too, ain't sure though.


----------



## EISENbricher

Guys, received ED10 and Translucent ATE today (Already own Silver).
  
 Loving ED10... more details awaiting.
  
 Quote:


shadowsora said:


> In the chinese brand forum there are some guys who have them, I think @EISENbricher have them too, ain't sure though.


 
 Yup I have the V1... they have some specific nice qualities to talk about. @Enuma-elis let me know if you need any details. But latest 3 KZ babies (ATE, ED9, ED10) are better deals IMHO.


----------



## lesp4ul

eisenbricher said:


> Guys, received ED10 and Translucent ATE today (Already own Silver).
> 
> Loving ED10... more details awaiting.
> 
> ...




May I know your impression of ed10? I have ate & ed9 also, ed9 is good already with spinfit tips and ate has a better mids imho.


----------



## EISENbricher

lesp4ul said:


> May I know your impression of ed10? I have ate & ed9 also, ed9 is good already with spinfit tips and ate has a better mids imho.


 
 I'd say KZ ED10 is equally amazing as ATE and ED9, albeit it has quite different sound signature. ED10 is the most 'aggressive' sounding of the bunch. It has a fun kind of sound signature which ED9 and ATE don't have. Another difference is that ED10 is easier to drive compared to the other two.
  
 ED10 has a V-shaped sound as far as I can tell, from a little bit of listening period. Build quality is very good and I think it'll last the most among the three. Cable is similar to EDSE and is great as always. Doesn't feel too rubbery as w/o mic ED9.
  
 Ask me anything specific if you need..


----------



## lesp4ul

eisenbricher said:


> lesp4ul said:
> 
> 
> > May I know your impression of ed10? I have ate & ed9 also, ed9 is good already with spinfit tips and ate has a better mids imho.
> ...




Thanks man, ed9 cable is somewhat stiff, ate is "sticky" for me, and i sold edse coz too much bass. Oh, so it has fun vshaped soundsig like sony mh1 i think (also have), perhaps?


----------



## chavez

KZ - I'm lovin it!


----------



## JesvsR

eisenbricher said:


> I'd say KZ ED10 is equally amazing as ATE and ED9, albeit it has quite different sound signature. ED10 is the most 'aggressive' sounding of the bunch. It has a fun kind of sound signature which ED9 and ATE don't have. Another difference is that ED10 is easier to drive compared to the other two.
> 
> ED10 has a V-shaped sound as far as I can tell, from a little bit of listening period. Build quality is very good and I think it'll last the most among the three. Cable is similar to EDSE and is great as always. Doesn't feel too rubbery as w/o mic ED9.
> 
> Ask me anything specific if you need..


 
 What about the sound detail?? Is the ED10 detailed enough despite the V-shaped signature??


----------



## EISENbricher

jesvsr said:


> What about the sound detail?? Is the ED10 detailed enough despite the V-shaped signature??


 
 Yup, no worries about details. It's one of the detailed V-sig earphones. More detailed than ED8m to say, at the least.


----------



## aaDee

What the heck is this??
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ATE-Sport-in-Ear-Earphone-With-Microphone-3-5mm-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32405730615.html


----------



## EISENbricher

aadee said:


> What the heck is this??
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ATE-Sport-in-Ear-Earphone-With-Microphone-3-5mm-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32405730615.html


 
 That is strange... maybe a fake or just some copy past mistake... Need to confirm with KZ store reps or @Horton


----------



## Shadowsora

aadee said:


> What the heck is this??
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ATE-Sport-in-Ear-Earphone-With-Microphone-3-5mm-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32405730615.html


 
 Probably just a fake with a clickbait "KZ" inserted in title.


----------



## Shawn71

aadee said:


> What the heck is this??
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ATE-Sport-in-Ear-Earphone-With-Microphone-3-5mm-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32405730615.html


 
 I'm on it if someone confirms that's a legit KZ......as I like Bono's Angus style.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I sold my Flare R2a, they simply weren't cutting it. Got my Kickstarter money back, Huzzah!!!  Boy would I have been PISSED if I had bought them now for $270 after Kickstarter.
  
 Okay now Back to KZ, *WHO*  
Recommended the KZ Micro Rings? One ATTABOY!!!  These things are Amazing. Vocals are OUTSTANDING regardless of Price. Some of the Best I've heard from ANY earphone. The whole presentation is World Class. These can Easily be my KZ Favorites, I heartily recommend getting these if you can. Tough to fit tips to though, but I have a trick.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Okay now Back to KZ, *[COLOR=00FF00]WHO[/COLOR]*[COLOR=00FF00] [/COLOR]
> [COLOR=000000]Recommended the KZ Micro Rings? One ATTABOY!!!  These things are Amazing.





Glad I could help


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Glad I could help


 





 Many Thanx Scrambler. I couldn't remember who told me about them and I was just too friggin' lazy to go back and read through 20 or 30 Pages to find out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## anticute

Do the micro rings isolate at all?


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Many Thanx Scrambler. I couldn't remember who told me about them and I was just too friggin' lazy to go back and read through 20 or 30 Pages to find out.
> 
> TWIN




Well, I'm a Micro Ring fanboy so I had to recommend them .

My intro to them was horrible however. They came with useless tips; small and large were for an iem with a normal nozzle, and the mediums were torn. The left housing wasn't glued together. I briefly listened to them on first opening then tossed them aside for the EDse.

Once I got over the initial disappointment, glued them back together and found a good set of tips, they have been one of my favorite iems.


----------



## B9Scrambler

anticute said:


> Do the micro rings isolate at all?




Not a whole lot, but better than you would expect. They're open backed with a row of vents along the top.


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Not a whole lot, but better than you would expect. They're open backed with a row of vents along the top.


 





 They isolate quite well with Foams, I counldn't hear a thing.... The trick is You have to find Foams without the inserts. Even the Largest comply 500 is too small to fit over the nozzles. I have some of these coming:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/170946097518?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true
  
 Should look cool as hell with the Black and Blue Micro Rings. I'm temporarily using a pair of Black Foams that came with some other KZ Earphones, although it was a bit of a stretch...
  








 TWIN


----------



## theuprising

Why are there 2 threads?
  
 Ok I want to try my hand at KZ again after my ED9 broke, I have a very warm amp, the E07k, that makes some headphones sound boomy, should I get the ED9 or ATE?
  
 My defective brass ED9 sounded tinny, like there simply wasn't a natural amount of mid bass and especially sub bass even with my amp.


----------



## kaiteck

theuprising said:


> Why are there 2 threads?
> Ok I want to try my hand at KZ again after my ED9 broke, I have a very warm amp, the E07k, that makes some headphones sound boomy, should I get the ED9 or ATE?
> 
> My defective brass ED9 sounded tinny, like there simply wasn't a natural amount of mid bass and especially sub bass even with my amp.




You seem like those ppl who are particular about bass. I would say just continue with ed9


----------



## EISENbricher

theuprising said:


> Why are there 2 threads?
> 
> Ok I want to try my hand at KZ again after my ED9 broke, I have a very warm amp, the E07k, that makes some headphones sound boomy, should I get the ED9 or ATE?
> 
> My defective brass ED9 sounded tinny, like there simply wasn't a natural amount of mid bass and especially sub bass even with my amp.



For non fatiguing, smooth sound with slightly better timbre go for ATE. For flexibility, neutral - ish sound go for ED9. Both pair up very well with warm sources. 

Both lack sub bass though... ED10 excels in that region. But with warm source it's a no no.


----------



## theuprising

eisenbricher said:


> For non fatiguing, smooth sound with slightly better timbre go for ATE. For flexibility, neutral - ish sound go for ED9. Both pair up very well with warm sources.
> 
> Both lack sub bass though... ED10 excels in that region. But with warm source it's a no no.


 
 Hmm, for instance my defective brass ED9 lacked mid-bass impact in the drums on this reference track (4:55), is supposed to do fine? Thanks!


----------



## EISENbricher

theuprising said:


> Hmm, for instance my defective brass ED9 lacked mid-bass impact in the drums on this reference track (4:55), is supposed to do fine? Thanks!




 I'll leave this for someone to answer. I'm in office so no YouTube. I can answer after about 9~10 hrs when I reach home.


----------



## ayao

theuprising said:


> Ok I want to try my hand at KZ again after my ED9 broke, I have a very warm amp, the E07k, that makes some headphones sound boomy, should I get the ED9 or ATE?
> 
> My defective brass ED9 sounded tinny, like there simply wasn't a natural amount of mid bass and especially sub bass even with my amp.


 
 You shouldn't get another ED9 if you didn't like your previous ED9 (when it still worked). I also have the ED9 and agree that it's VERY bass light. After getting used to the ED9 it made my K10U sound very boomy.
 Maybe the ATE will suit you more. It has been described by many people as balanced, natural and smooth, but both EISENbricher and I think it lacks sub-bass.


----------



## Ruben123

In my ed9s the tiny holes in the nozzles were not completely closed while I think they should have been that. Pushing a bit with a tooth stick against the plastic thing covering the hole made them sound 100000x better.
I thought they were defective without doing that.


----------



## ayao

ruben123 said:


> In my ed9s the tiny holes in the nozzles were not completely closed while I think they should have been that. Pushing a bit with a tooth stick against the plastic thing covering the hole made them sound 100000x better.
> I thought they were defective without doing that.


 
 +1
 I had to do this to fix my ED9's channel imbalance. My left channel also cuts out sometimes, but messing with the strain relief fixes it.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Both lack sub bass though...


 


> Originally Posted by *ayao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I also have the ED9 and agree that it's VERY bass light. ...but both EISENbricher and I think it lacks sub-bass.


 
 Don`t agree at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Even _NIN - Hesitation Marks_ HQ deluxe version sub-basses are good with ATE, ED9 even more bassy (even with brass filters).
  
 Just my 2 cents about sub-bass.


----------



## anticute

Could be a QC issue, or tip dependent, but I really haven't felt that the ED9 lacks any sub bass, at all. I do use foams, though. As I mentioned earlier - try brass nozzles and push a foam tip all the way up to the housing, so it covers the entire nozzle. Pretty fun as an experiment if nothing else


----------



## EISENbricher

Guys, have you tried ED10? It produces nice rumbling sub bass. ATE and ED9 are behind in that aspect.
  
 btw let me clarify... ED9 and ATE are bass light compared to ED10. Shouldn't be confused with absolute bass light. I'd have sold them off if they were bass light. ED9 brass is bass neutral (maybe a little up than neutral) and ATE is definitely warm-ish.
  
 ED10 produces nice mid bass thump and sub bass rumble. Just another sound flavor produced by KZ. Debating over ATE/ED9/ED10 isn't going to result into anything as each one brings something different to the table.


----------



## anticute

I just recently started using the ED10. I'll give it a little time and then do a comparison


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Guys, have you tried ED10? It produces nice rumbling sub bass. ATE and ED9 are behind in that aspect.
> 
> btw let me clarify... ED9 and ATE are bass light compared to ED10. Shouldn't be confused with absolute bass light. I'd have sold them off if they were bass light. ED9 brass is bass neutral (maybe a little up than neutral) and ATE is definitely warm-ish.
> 
> ED10 produces nice mid bass thump and sub bass rumble. Just another sound flavor produced by KZ. Debating over ATE/ED9/ED10 isn't going to result into anything as each one brings something different to the table.




My ED10 is on the way  very interested in seeing how it compares to the ED9 and ATE since I find the ED9 quite bassy with the gold filters, mildly boosted with the brass filters. I think the ATE is mostly devoid of sub-bass (have four pairs to test with BTW), but of the two I would take it over the ED9 any day.

Hoping the ED10 takes the ATEs smooth treble and pairs it with some big bass and clean mids.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> I think the ATE is mostly devoid of sub-bass.


 
 Entirely lacking of sub-bass? Totally disagree.
 This must be caused by Your tips selection or personal preference towards V-shaped bass enchanced sound signature.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Entirely lacking of sub-bass? Totally disagree.
> This must be caused by Your tips selection or personal preference towards V-shaped bass enchanced sound signature.




Tried a bunch of different tips, don't worry about that. Settled on the large green ones with red core that came with my ED9 since they offered up the most bass and best fit for my ears.

I just like lots of sub-bass. Don't much care for mid-bass. I like to feel it more than hear it. The ATE is missing that visceral feeling. Not that I think that's necessarily a bad thing. Gets fatiguing after a while, and since the ATE is pretty calm both in its treble and bass, they're great for long listening sessions. 

For my preferred signature, the Micro Ring hits that perfectly. V-shaped iems are fun, but I can't go without decent mids.


----------



## Shadowsora

Well... If ED10 has more (sub)bass than ED9/ATE which i find them to have plenty, then i might skip it.
 I can't order anything either way so it's ok i guess.
  
 Edit: I guess it's more like R35/Tuner or mh1 like sounding, well my personal preference is ATH like sound that's why ATE seems to have hit a sweet spot.


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Tried a bunch of different tips, don't worry about that. Settled on the large green ones with red core that came with my ED9 since they offered up the most bass and best fit for my ears.
> 
> I just like lots of sub-bass. Don't much care for mid-bass. I like to feel it more than hear it. The ATE is missing that visceral feeling. Not that I think that's necessarily a bad thing. Gets fatiguing after a while, and since the ATE is pretty calm both in its treble and bass, they're great for long listening sessions.
> 
> For my preferred signature, the Micro Ring hits that perfectly. V-shaped iems are fun, but I can't go without decent mids.


 





 The Micro Ring has everything, Huge Bass, Really nice not terribly harsh or strident treble, and quite possibly the best mids (especially vocals) I've heard from any IEM at any price.
  
 I'm still deciding on how good the mids actually are. I'm gonna need more listening time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> The Micro Ring has everything, Huge Bass, Really nice not terribly harsh or strident treble, and quite possibly the best mids (especially vocals) I've heard from any IEM at any price.
> 
> I'm still deciding on how good the mids actually are. I'm gonna need more listening time.
> 
> TWIN




Yuppers. Micro Ring is fantastic


----------



## chavez

30$ . I should have gotten them while they were 14. ( micro ring)


----------



## anticute

chavez said:


> 30$
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1.
  
 They'd be fun to try, but for $30 it just isn't worth it for me if they don't isolate well enough for me to use them on the bus. I really don't use IEMs a lot at home, and if I do, the ATE works really well as long as there isn't a lot of background noise..


----------



## TwinACStacks

Wow, I just checked. I got them for $16 now they are up to $40!!! Grab them even at the higher price, before they go up again. They would still be good even at $100.
  
 Easily the best sound of any KZ I have heard.
  
 JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

> Grab them even at the higher price, before they go up again. They would still be good even at $100.
> Easily the best sound of any KZ I have heard.


 
 JYsubjectiveO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At 100$ price tag I would certainly look already at Fidue A73 or something towards like it. Just 40-50$ more and SQ leap would be probably way over any KZ out there.
  
 Anyway, reading how our hearing of things and source gear differs, MR probably not so good match for me as ATE. And it`s all OK. JMSO.


----------



## B9Scrambler

That's why KZ iems are so awesome. Something for everyone, and at a more than reasonable price.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I haven't heard the A73 but I HAVE listened to it's big Brother the A83. There isn't that much of a difference between it and the Micro Ring to warrant it's enormous price tag. The A73 are a better value most probably from what I've heard from users. But before I'd Pop for an A73 I'd buy another pair of Trinity Deltas at $130 (after kickstarter price). They are stunning.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> I HAVE listened to it's big Brother the *A83*. There *isn't that much of a difference between it and the Micro Ring* to warrant it's enormous price tag.


 





 M`kay...


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> M`kay...


 





 Just my own opinion of Price VS Performance. Not whether or not the Fidues were better, that's a given. But $15 VS $300+? No brainer for me....
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Well... If ED10 has more (sub)bass than ED9/ATE which i find them to have plenty, then i might skip it.
> I can't order anything either way so it's ok i guess.
> 
> Edit: I guess it's more like R35/Tuner or mh1 like sounding, well my personal preference is ATH like sound that's why ATE seems to have hit a sweet spot.


 
 I'd say still get it. It has nice amount of details in highs and besides they are not bass cannons which bleed into other frequencies. Anyway being <$10 shipped they are total steal. Build quality alone screams much higher price, let alone the SQ.
  
 Of course you have restrictions for now.. but you should get one whenever you can.
  


b9scrambler said:


> My ED10 is on the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Let us know your impressions when you receive ED10. Stock black silicone tips are very good on them. ED9 gold enhances the low end but kind of kills the high end. I never tried modding but in stock form I found this. ED10 highs are nice, smooth and airy. 
  
 Well I'll leave this to you to find how ED10 compares to ED9 and ATE.


----------



## Richsvt

Well, after reading through many impressions and reviews here, I decided to take a plunge and try some of these out. Not sure what I wanted for sound signature, so I purchased the ED9, ED10 and the ATE to try out. All should be here by the end of the week. I will post some of my feedback once I try them out. Looking forward to see how they sound. Love the fact that they are low cost. I think I spent $15 for the ATE and about $12 for the ED9 and ED10 each. So for about $40, I get to swap around IEMs and see what's good, terrific bargain.


----------



## CADCAM

I went with the ANV, ED9 & ED10 myself... hoping they sound good and one or more appeal to me. 
  
 I'm in New England and think it will be awhile before I see them as they are coming from China.


----------



## theuprising

ruben123 said:


> In my ed9s the tiny holes in the nozzles were not completely closed while I think they should have been that. Pushing a bit with a tooth stick against the plastic thing covering the hole made them sound 100000x better.
> I thought they were defective without doing that.


 
 whoah this might be the problem with mine, pushing against the plastic made it sound more like when I first got it, but even then there was a slight channel imbalance. Maybe I should just push more?


----------



## Grayson73

eisenbricher said:


> Guys, have you tried ED10? It produces nice rumbling sub bass. ATE and ED9 are behind in that aspect.


 
 Does the ED10 have pounding sub-bass like the Tenore?


----------



## Chief Stringer

I ordered the ED9 & ATE, how does either of those models' bass compare to the Sennheiser CX300ii in presence, extension / sub bass, impact and definition? And overall SQ while we're at it? I'll be using the gold tips no doubt on the ED9s too.


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> Does the ED10 have pounding sub-bass like the Tenore?



Deeper than Tenores.


----------



## chavez

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
  
 Good seller? There were A LOT of orders and feedback.


----------



## B9Scrambler

After some aggressive burn-in over the last week, the CM9 are shaping up to be a pretty fun product. They retained the very spacious soundstage they started with which is appreciated, and offer up reasonable levels of detail and clarity. Mostly gone is the weird dissociation between in-your face sub-bass and hyper recessed mids/treble that made them sound like a pair of dual drivers with really poor tuning. The insane sub-bass is still there, but mids/treble no longer feel like they are being played from a separate speaker 20 feet away pointing in the wrong direction. While I miss the very unique listening experience that offered, it wasn't really all that enjoyable and was more of a novelty than anything. In fact, out of the box they sounded just like the ClarityOne ECW102 over-ear headphones I bought a while back. The CM9 now sound more or less like a normal pair of iems, albeit with quirks. 
  
 The quirks; that obscene bass tends to bleed everywhere (gross :S), there is still a hint of that odd dissociation between bass, mids, and treble, especially evident with synth-pop and other forms of electronic music.
  
 While I do not think this pair of CM9s are particularly good or representative of what they should actually sound like, based on everyone else's impressions, they are probably the most unique-sounding pair of iems in my collection. That can be attributed mainly due to that jaw-dropping sub-bass and occasionally weird recession of treble/mids. Not sure what's up with them, but I like em. They're super smooth, warm, and bassy as all heck.
  
 Fun fact: They share the exact same cable as the Yamaha EPH-100 (replica) that I recently purchased, sans chin slider. 
  
 Revised KZ Favorites List: Micro Ring >/= ANV, ATE, ED9 Gold, ED3, EDse, ED9 Brass, CM9, R3 (I think that's all of em)


----------



## CADCAM

chavez said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
> 
> Good seller? There were A LOT of orders and feedback.


 
 Got mine here~
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/523133


----------



## chavez

cadcam said:


> Got mine here~
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/523133


 
 Tnx mate.


----------



## nhlean96

Hi everybody !
 I'm planning to buy another KZ after having ATE and ANV. Which KZs will you guys recommend me, I've heard some good impressions about ED10, I think I'll give them a try. Anyway, the price Taobao is way more expensive than from aliexpress, but ordering from taobao is faster than ali (since there're many ordering service that have good service fee, and my country is near from China), just 4 days after paying I could received my order 
 Recently, I've bought 2 pairs of ANV from a seller on taobao, but 2 pairs have the same problem. There's something wrong with the paint, they have a thin layer of color like oil on water, and there're a few scratches on the plating. So I'm afraid that they're USED not BRANDNEW.  But there's was no problem with the sound and the housing, cable. So It's still worth $12  If you buy from ren88 (the offical store) there's no problem, everything is perfect  (Although It's a little pricey approx $18 for an pair of ATE w/o mic).


----------



## lesp4ul

nhlean96 said:


> Hi everybody !
> 
> 
> I'm planning to buy another KZ after having ATE and ANV. Which KZs will you guys recommend me, I've heard some good impressions about ED10, I think I'll give them a try. Anyway, the price Taobao is way more expensive than from aliexpress, but ordering from taobao is faster than ali (since there're many ordering service that have good service fee, and my country is near from China), just 4 days after paying I could received my order
> ...






I believe it just a QC problem, anyway go grab both ED9 and ED10, i got ATE and ED9 from ali and have no problem at all. Just order and forget


----------



## ayao

EDIT: The "KZ" S6 found on AliExpress is not actually by KZ.
  


Spoiler: S6 not by KZ



Just got the KZ S6, three pairs to be exact. They all sound pretty much identical OOTB.
  
 Signature is on the warm side; highs are smooth (more subdued than the DT3/EDSE [both which I consider V-shaped]), but there is a peak around 4.5khz which gives it that unnatural plasticky sound. This goes away after around 30mins of brain burn-in for me (aka getting used to the sound), but if I switch to and from anything in my sig the weird mids become very apparent. Bass is similar to the DT3, which I really like. Goes down pretty low and the mid-bass doesn't overwhelm sub-bass like the ASG2 (fully closed ports) does.
 While the S6 is one of the most comfortable earphones I have worn (maybe even better than my VSD2S), the large amount of driver flex is the main deal breaker imo. It's the kind of driver flex where anything deeper than the shallowest fit will drastically alter the sound for the worse. They would've been my go-to IEMs for sleeping otherwise.
 These are just my initial impressions after a few minutes of receiving them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 For now, I would recommend the EDSE and DT3 to people looking for a great <$10USD IEM (haven't heard the ED10, ED8 and Micro Ring yet)


----------



## Shawn71

ayao said:


> Just got the KZ S6, three pairs to be exact. They all sound pretty much identical OOTB.
> 
> Signature is on the warm side; highs are smooth (more subdued than the DT3/EDSE [both which I consider V-shaped]), but there is a peak around 4.5khz which gives it that unnatural plasticky sound. This goes away after around 30mins of brain burn-in for me (aka getting used to the sound), but if I switch to and from anything in my sig the weird mids become very apparent. Bass is similar to the DT3, which I really like. Goes down pretty low and the mid-bass doesn't overwhelm sub-bass like the ASG2 (fully closed ports) does.
> While the S6 is one of the most comfortable earphones I have worn (maybe even better than my VSD2S), the large amount of driver flex is the main deal breaker imo. It's the kind of driver flex where anything deeper than the shallowest fit will drastically alter the sound for the worse. They would've been my go-to IEMs for sleeping otherwise.
> ...


 
 Add ED9 to the list....


----------



## ayao

shawn71 said:


> Add ED9 to the list....


 
 but I have the ED9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I just need to try and mod the filters more to my liking. Right now even my Q701 sounds quite bassy compared to my stock ED9 w/brass filters..


----------



## EISENbricher

ayao said:


> Just got the KZ S6, three pairs to be exact. They all sound pretty much identical OOTB.
> 
> Signature is on the warm side; highs are smooth (more subdued than the DT3/EDSE [both which I consider V-shaped]), but there is a peak around 4.5khz which gives it that unnatural plasticky sound. This goes away after around 30mins of brain burn-in for me (aka getting used to the sound), but if I switch to and from anything in my sig the weird mids become very apparent. Bass is similar to the DT3, which I really like. Goes down pretty low and the mid-bass doesn't overwhelm sub-bass like the ASG2 (fully closed ports) does.
> While the S6 is one of the most comfortable earphones I have worn (maybe even better than my VSD2S), the large amount of driver flex is the main deal breaker imo. It's the kind of driver flex where anything deeper than the shallowest fit will drastically alter the sound for the worse. They would've been my go-to IEMs for sleeping otherwise.
> ...


 
 S6 is not produced by KZ, @Horton has mentioned in this thread before. Not to be confused as a KZ earphone. Well if it's good sounding then it's all good for you. I think this one deserves mention in the Chinese/Asian earphone thread.


----------



## ayao

eisenbricher said:


> S6 is not produced by KZ, @Horton
> has mentioned in this thread before. Not to be confused as a KZ earphone. Well if it's good sounding then it's all good for you. I think this one deserves mention in the Chinese/Asian earphone thread.



Sorry, that is my bad. I must have misunderstood what Horton said in page 345. When I get back home I'll change my post so there won't be further confusion. I should've noticed when they didn't come in the typical KZ cardboard box or ATE/ED9 case.


----------



## anxonic

chavez said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
> 
> Good seller? There were A LOT of orders and feedback.


 
 Ordered ED10 from them, it's on the way. Will update this thread on how it turns out.


----------



## OctroN

chavez said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
> 
> Good seller? There were A LOT of orders and feedback.




Bought two pairs from them, and the headphones are ok. One has arrived, and bought the other one as a backup.


----------



## Trapok

chavez said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
> 
> Good seller? There were A LOT of orders and feedback.


 

 I bought mine from them, ordered on 06.07 received today 28.07.
 Very well packaged.


----------



## Podster

So the guys over on the Wizard returns thread were being coaxed to listen to this on their K10's

 Gave me an idea, I can't tell you how good this sounds through my $10 ED9's


----------



## martino416

chavez said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
> 
> Good seller? There were A LOT of orders and feedback.


 

 Purchased a pair of ed10s from them july 02 and received today , I live in Canada. Good seller and great headphones.


----------



## dwayniac

I received my first pair of KZ iem's: the ED9. In the next couple weeks,I should have the GR,X6 & DT5. When I have all the models that I mentioned,I will give a short impression and rank among them.


----------



## CoiL

X6 ? KZ has no X6. ED9 is probably best out of those anyway.


----------



## dwayniac

coil said:


> X6 ? KZ has no X6. ED9 is probably best out of those anyway.


 
 It was listed as a KZ X6 but it has different guises like QKZ X6.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-X6-Super-Bass-Headphones-Professional-Monitoring-Headphones-HIFI-Headsets-DJ-Earphones-Universal-3-5MM/1246446_32315369571.html
  
  
 The ED9 is okay but falls behind three other iem's that I own,that are more expensive but ahead of four other iem's that I own.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> X6 ? KZ has no X6. ED9 is probably best out of those anyway.


 
 My ED9 should be here shortly any advise on essential mods & burn-in? What to expect and what not to...


----------



## adityak469

So i was thinking to buy new IEMs and I narrowed down on KZ ED8/9/10/ATE. But I'm confused about which is better and by what margin. Can anyone shed some light?

PS - ED8 looks awesome so if the sound quality isnt too far below the other three, I'll go with ED8 most probably.

PSS - I got ED2 from a friend and thats how I was introduced to KZ and I'm just loving ED2


----------



## EISENbricher

adityak469 said:


> So i was thinking to buy new IEMs and I narrowed down on KZ ED8/9/10/ATE. But I'm confused about which is better and by what margin. Can anyone shed some light?
> 
> PS - ED8 looks awesome so if the sound quality isnt too far below the other three, I'll go with ED8 most probably.
> 
> PSS - I got ED2 from a friend and thats how I was introduced to KZ and I'm just loving ED2


 
 ED8 is a bass heavy IEM with fairly good highs and mids. It has thumping, rumbling bass and overall darker sound which will make you feel home if you are an EDM lover and basically, a basshead. 

 ED8 is built like a tank, and literally. It is the heaviest KZ that I know and that may make long sessions little uncomfortable. If you are looking for a bass oriented sound and still want better details then I'd recommend ED10. Like ED8 it's built like a tank and is lighter, more comfortable than ED8. 
  
 Let me know if you want any specific details.
  
 PS: If you are from India, which I assume from your username and coincidentally from Mumbai then you can have demo of KZs I own (mentioned in my signature).


----------



## adityak469

eisenbricher said:


> adityak469 said:
> 
> 
> > So i was thinking to buy new IEMs and I narrowed down on KZ ED8/9/10/ATE. But I'm confused about which is better and by what margin. Can anyone shed some light?
> ...




Thanks for the info on ED8 and ED10. I guess I'll go with ED10. I'll get my friend to buy ED8 as he was just blown away by the looks of ED8 
Do you have any idea about ED9 and ATE? Are they any better than ED10? 

PS - Yes I am from India but sadly not from Mumbai


----------



## martino416

adityak469 said:


> Thanks for the info on ED8 and ED10. I guess I'll go with ED10. I'll get my friend to buy ED8 as he was just blown away by the looks of ED8
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They all have distinctive sound signatures.
  
 On a side note the ED10s I got a day ago are so COMFORTABLE especially compared to ED9. ATE are great for my ears but I almost forgot i was wearing IEM's with the ed10s.


----------



## EISENbricher

martino416 said:


> They all have distinctive sound signatures.
> 
> On a side note the ED10s I got a day ago are so COMFORTABLE especially compared to ED9. ATE are great for my ears but I almost forgot i was wearing IEM's with the ed10s.


 
 Agreed... ED10 are most comfortable among the new KZs (ATE/ED9/ED10)


----------



## adityak469

eisenbricher said:


> martino416 said:
> 
> 
> > They all have distinctive sound signatures.
> ...




So I guess ED10 it is  
Thanks for the help 

Sent from my SM-A300H using Tapatalk


----------



## adityak469

Ordered ED10 for myself and ED8 for a friend. Now have to wait a month for them to arrive 

Sent from my SM-A300H using Tapatalk


----------



## TwinACStacks

*QUESTION.  *I just ordered another pair of EDSE from the KZ Flagship warehouse on Aliexpress. My order says ED2.... They look identical with same specs, are they the same Earphones or do I have to go back and specifically order ED Special Edition from another vendor? Typing in EDSE in Ali search brings up the ED2. BTW:  $6.99
  








 Thanx TWIN


----------



## Chief Stringer

martino416 said:


> They all have distinctive sound signatures.
> 
> On a side note the ED10s I got a day ago are so COMFORTABLE especially compared to ED9. ATE are great for my ears but I almost forgot i was wearing IEM's with the ed10s.




How does the bass response on the ATE and ED9 (gold tips) compare to the ED10?


----------



## r2muchstuff

twinacstacks said:


> *QUESTION.  *I just ordered another pair of EDSE from the KZ Flagship warehouse on Aliexpress. My order says ED2.... They look identical with same specs, are they the same Earphones or do I have to go back and specifically order ED Special Edition from another vendor? Typing in EDSE in Ali search brings up the ED2. BTW:  $6.99
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 These are the ED SE:

 r2
  
 Edit:
  
 I ordered from here:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152/search?origin=n&SortType=orders_desc
  
 And order states:
KZ ED Special Edition Gold Plated Housing Double Magnets Drivers Noise Isolating HD HiFi Earphone Headphones High Sensitivity


----------



## lesp4ul

I had EDSE & ED8, and keep ED9 & ATE, 10 on shipment, for my taste (acoustics, vocal jazz, bossa) = ATE & ED9, EDM, trap, dance and some pop, r&b = EDSE & ED8, but EDSE has more opening on mids and highs, ED8 is more recessed. I also have Sony MH1 and it still better than both EDSE & ED8 imho so I sold them. For comfort and isolation, i get a good result for ED9 with gold nozzle + spinfit M, ATE with ED9 small tips


----------



## EISENbricher

chief stringer said:


> How does the bass response on the ATE and ED9 (gold tips) compare to the ED10?



Compared to ATE and ED9s bass, ED10 has more quantity of bass. Also, the bass is deeper ans sub bass is also produced well. Bass will overpower though, if you pair ED10 with a warm source. So ideally you should pair with a neutral of colder source, or adjust eq slightly.


----------



## CoiL

> ATE with ED9 small tips


 
 Then You should try KZ "whirlwind" smallest tips with ATE  They are not included with KZ IEMs and need to be ordered separately.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5325#post_11782749
  
 Also, about ED9 tips:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






coil said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > For KZ ED9 I found best solution with #1 white gel-silicones because they are ultra-soft and ED9 with its small body and quite long nozzle requires deep insertion.
> ...


----------



## Lohb

Just got the ED9 the other day and pretty impressed.
 Using the gold plug with them.
  
 Is there any other model that has more bass quality/quantity than ED9 without drowning out the mids ? Not a fan of overly-bright treble either.


----------



## CoiL

Probably ATE will suit Your taste better.


----------



## Lohb

coil said:


> Probably ATE will suit Your taste better.


 

 Will grab those ear-tips you posted a few pages back as well, thanks.
  
  
  
 How do you guys order from aliexpress, do they take paypal ?


----------



## CoiL

Aliexpress paying options: http://activities.aliexpress.com/adcms/help-aliexpress-com/pay_order.php


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm very surprised the new ZN1 isn't being discussed. I see a few postings on Aliexpress but maybe the price is too high for anyone to jump?


----------



## Hisoundfi

That ZN1 looks very unique. I wander how the inline amp/eq will work. 

Kz said "forget a tuning filter, let's go digital!"


----------



## Richsvt

Well, 
I've got the ED9, ED10, and the GR in hand and still waiting for the ATE. Just started some listening. So far, from my very limited time with these, I am leaning towards the ED10 as the better one. Just super light and details seemed resolved better. Sub-based was not as apparent as the ED9. Could be the tips. I am doing some tip rolling so we'll see how that shakes out. Overall, superb sounds for the price/quality ratio...cable on the GR is better than the 9,10 (too rubbery for my liking).


----------



## CoiL

You are using AK100II for comparing? Would like to know what You think about them all (after You get ATE too) with AK.


----------



## Podster

lohb said:


> Will grab those ear-tips you posted a few pages back as well, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you guys order from aliexpress, do they take paypal ?


 

 I agree with Coil as I also use the blue whirlwinds on my ATE. Seem to fit/seal just right on those large nozzles and my small canal's


----------



## Richsvt

coil said:


> You are using AK100II for comparing? Would like to know what You think about them all (after You get ATE too) with AK.




Yes, using the 100ii as well as the AK Jr.
So far, call me impressed. I will post more later after I do some solid listening...


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> That ZN1 looks very unique. I wander how the inline amp/eq will work.
> 
> Kz said "forget a tuning filter, let's go digital!"


 
 Yeah much interested in the ZN1. Price is way above my limits though.... I hope it comes down so that I can give it a go.


----------



## leobigfield

eisenbricher said:


> Yeah much interested in the ZN1. Price is way above my limits though.... I hope it comes down so that I can give it a go


 
  
  
 I'm waiting the magic US$ 8 dollars KZ price.


----------



## EISENbricher

btw some close shots of ED10. Really loving this latest addition. Best build quality among the latest trio. Tips installed are Xiaomi Piston triple flange tips. Best pairing that I found after some tip rolling.
  
  
*Click for hi-res.*


----------



## Podster

I like those triple flange Eisen, look like little Scarab's for the ear


----------



## CoiL

Eisen, can You please take a hi-res close-up from nozzle side without tips?


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> I like those triple flange Eisen, look like little Scarab's for the ear


 
 Haha.... I had never liked multi flange tips before... but this one was really good.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Eisen, can You please take a hi-res close-up from nozzle side without tips?


 
 Like this?
  
 EDIT : My phone didn't focus that good like it does in daylight..


----------



## leobigfield

Where did you get those Triple tips?


----------



## EISENbricher

leobigfield said:


> Where did you get those Triple tips?


 
 With a Xiaomi Piston 2 that I recently bought.


----------



## Shawn71

podster said:


> *I agree with Coil* as I also use the *blue whirlwinds* on my ATE. *Seem to fit/seal just right *on those large nozzles and my small canal's


 

 I'm intrigued to order the *S* and see how it fares this time, as my previous attempt on *M* didn't get a green and so uncomfortable....but not sure how hard these are to westone's tho.


----------



## lesp4ul

coil said:


> > ATE with ED9 small tips
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have them bro, just can't fit my ear haha. Still got better seal with ed9 tips


----------



## Lohb

The grill fell out my ED-9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Shawn71

lohb said:


> The grill fell out my ED-9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 of the nozzle?....as it's a mini project if its the one inside the shell.


----------



## Lohb

My local shop just gave me new nozzles. I was looking to try the bass-slanted nozzle with/without damping foam, when the nozzle grill fell out.
 ED9 sound pretty darn great just from Audirvana + OSX music player....no external amp/DAC.
 That software really slaps the basic Cirrus DAC into shape and then these little gems take over.


----------



## CoiL

lesp4ul said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > > ATE with ED9 small tips
> ...


 
 Ok. Agree on ED9 smallest ones, they are still very good and also my 2nd choice  Though it`s strange You can`t fit smallest "whirlwinds" in Your ear because ED9 smallest are larger than "whirlwind" smallest. Are You sure You have the smallest ones? Did You buy them separately?
  
 They are on this pic along with ED9 smallest:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/lightbox/post/11782749/id/1416735


----------



## EISENbricher

Spotted ZN1 at $32 on TaoBao. Still not released and prices already coming down! 
 Finally I guess I could afford one if it gets to range of $20-$30. (Which it likely will)


----------



## lesp4ul

coil said:


> lesp4ul said:
> 
> 
> > coil said:
> ...




I confirm that, yea maybe the wide bore opening of the smallest whirlwind so it can't isolate well. No, I have all three pairs 

Btw, tried ATE with Oppo HA2, it really take full potential of this cans. No wonder almost everyone recommended it.


----------



## raybone0566

I received my s-6's today. Anyone thinking about grabbing them don't hesitate. Nice detail, pretty comfortable & big soundstage. Hats off to KZ, you people rock


----------



## EISENbricher

raybone0566 said:


> I received my s-6's today. Anyone thinking about grabbing them don't hesitate. Nice detail, pretty comfortable & big soundstage. Hats off to KZ, you people rock


 
 Btw S6 isn't a KZ earphone... Some shops brand it as KZ but it isn't a KZ. 
  
 Have you tried other KZ, especially any among ED9, ED10, ATE for comparison? Would be nice to know that.


----------



## raybone0566

eisenbricher said:


> Btw S6 isn't a KZ earphone... Some shops brand it as KZ but it isn't a KZ.
> 
> Have you tried other KZ, especially any among ED9, ED10, ATE for comparison? Would be nice to know that.


 I had no idea. Looking at them the whole style is completely different than the others. They sound pretty damn good though.


----------



## aaDee

raybone0566 said:


> I had no idea. Looking at them the whole style is completely different than the others. They sound pretty damn good though.


 

 I guess they are similar to Cosonic W1.
  




  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cosonic-Mobile-Phone-Earphones-Headphones-Headset-with-Microphone-Studio-Bass-Noise-Isolating-Brand-3-5mm-w1/32305790969.html


----------



## aaDee

Chinese manufacturers are really coming with some unique designs.
  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Professional-Micphone-Earphone-Headphone-For-IPhone6-Plus-Samsung-S6-earphone-With-Bass-Alto-High/32341373348.html





  
  
 And this one brainwavz clone but has BA+Dynamic driver
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Moving-iron-headphones-Music-headphones-Moving-coil-moving-iron-headphones-Fou-Mobile-phone-and-Music-playe/32341326674.html


----------



## talelxpx

do you guys thinks that KZ ATE better than ttpod t1e?
 im trying to get good earphones around 30$ that will be better than my broke vsonic gr06
 till now i read alot of good comments about ttpod t1e.
 i really need over the ear style for gym so that the only thing that stops me from buying TTPod T1e


----------



## peter123

talelxpx said:


> do you guys thinks that KZ ATE better than ttpod t1e?
> im trying to get good earphones around 30$ that will be better than my broke vsonic gr06
> till now i read alot of good comments about ttpod t1e.
> i really need over the ear style for gym so that the only thing that stops me from buying TTPod T1e




I personally think that the ttpod t1-e is better that the ATE. I also believe that the gr06 is better than both.... 

In that price range there's going to be tradeoffs with whatever you choose so you need to know what you want and what you like. For example the midrange is the strongest part on the gr06's and maybe the weakest part on the T1E's and so on.....

Edit: I know this is not the answer you were looking for but my point is that there's no "best" iem, just the best one for you (and this is true in all price brackets).


----------



## yangian

Quote:


talelxpx said:


> do you guys thinks that KZ ATE better than ttpod t1e?
> im trying to get good earphones around 30$ that will be better than my broke vsonic gr06
> till now i read alot of good comments about ttpod t1e.
> i really need over the ear style for gym so that the only thing that stops me from buying TTPod T1e



 Quote:


peter123 said:


> I personally think that the ttpod t1-e is better that the ATE. I also believe that the gr06 is better than both....
> 
> In that price range there's going to be tradeoffs with whatever you choose so you need to know what you want and what you like. For example the midrange is the strongest part on the gr06's and maybe the weakest part on the T1E's and so on.....
> 
> Edit: I know this is not the answer you were looking for but my point is that there's no "best" iem, just the best one for you (and this is true in all price brackets).


 
 Fully agree. No earphones, especially those budgeted, can be versatile. It's important to know what genre a phone is good at and choose one that is best for you.


----------



## leobigfield

talelxpx said:


> do you guys thinks that KZ ATE better than ttpod t1e?
> im trying to get good earphones around 30$ that will be better than my broke vsonic gr06
> till now i read alot of good comments about ttpod t1e.
> i really need over the ear style for gym so that the only thing that stops me from buying TTPod T1e


 
  


peter123 said:


> I personally think that the ttpod t1-e is better that the ATE. I also believe that the gr06 is better than both....
> 
> In that price range there's going to be tradeoffs with whatever you choose so you need to know what you want and what you like. For example the midrange is the strongest part on the gr06's and maybe the weakest part on the T1E's and so on.....
> 
> Edit: I know this is not the answer you were looking for but my point is that there's no "best" iem, just the best one for you (and this is true in all price brackets).


 
  
 If you are willing to search the classifieds, maybe you can find an AN16 for about that price. Based on your taste for your GR06, probably you will like them.


----------



## peter123

leobigfield said:


> If you are willing to search the classifieds, maybe you can find an AN16 for about that price. Based on your taste for your GR06, probably you will like them.




+1, good suggestion!


----------



## lesp4ul

No, t1e is better than ate. But if you don't like bass dominant iem, pick ate. Or you like bass but more like in acoustic, yea choose an16 or jump to gr06, zero audio carbo tenore or else.


----------



## theuprising

lesp4ul said:


> No, t1e is better than ate. But if you don't like bass dominant iem, pick ate. Or you like bass but more like in acoustic, yea choose an16 or jump to gr06, zero audio carbo tenore or else.


 

 I have T1e, it has lots of mid bass, some sub bass that's loose, and rolled off treble other than a small 10kHz spike and a spike somewhere that gives mild sibilance. The treble is not grainy. Mids are behind the bass but there.
  
 Not sure what genre that's for, since I don't care about quantity as that's always solvable with EQ. I suppose its decently clear in mids and mid bass. I guesss it works for pop if you don't mind a small amount of sibilance and not spectacular rumble, to my ears it has more mid clarity than the ED9 and is worth its price point.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Hey, After almost 200 Hours, these ED10s are pretty friggin' good. I like the way they fit.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Richsvt

I spent the day yesterday with the ed10, after some hours, liked the sound better than from out of the box. Super light and comfortable. I am spending the day with the ed9 today. I fave decided a very casual approach to testing these out. No volume matching, no strict source control. Just taking them along for the ride with whatever I have on hand at the moment. I am using the AK Jr again today while I'm out as I simply love that thing. Tomorrow will be the GRs. Once I get some better long sessions with each, I will post impressions. I hope my approach won't turn some off, but looking at what a real world scenario will feel like. No instrumented and clinical review here. Just seat of the pants listening. Still waiting for the ATE to arrive...


----------



## Arsis

richsvt said:


> I spent the day yesterday with the ed10, after some hours, liked the sound better than from out of the box. Super light and comfortable. I am spending the day with the ed9 today. I fave decided a very casual approach to testing these out. No volume matching, no strict source control. Just taking them along for the ride with whatever I have on hand at the moment. I am using the AK Jr again today while I'm out as I simply love that thing. Tomorrow will be the GRs. Once I get some better long sessions with each, I will post impressions. I hope my approach won't turn some off, but looking at what a real world scenario will feel like. No instrumented and clinical review here. Just seat of the pants listening. Still waiting for the ATE to arrive...


I personnally like that approach. The clinical assessment has its place but what it really comes down to is what you find yourself reaching for most often. For a long time, shortcomings aside, I reached for my T1E the most. I think I just found the right tip and balance between easy fit, comfort and sound. Recently its been the ed9. I have others that I really like but are finicky to fit or get uncomfortable quickly. I know some of them its just a matter of finding the right tip. I have ed10 on the way. Time will tell.


----------



## Lohb

Anyone using these with ED9/10  etc ?

 Edit :Really only wanted ATE for better fit when exercising and its bass, but ED-9 low-end is fine for me now. Not over-bearing.
 I think these clips will work, the demo units in the photo look similar.
  
 Thanks to @acain for giving the tip on these over on the G10 thread !


----------



## reluctant_engineer

Sorry for the off-topic but Shenzhen Electronics on aliexpress used to be a  good seller right? I'm confused as aliiexpress froze my order due to suspicious activity by this seller.


----------



## EISENbricher

sujan said:


> Sorry for the off-topic but [COLOR=333333]Shenzhen Electronics on aliexpress used to be a  good seller right? I'm confused as aliiexpress froze my order due to suspicious activity by this seller. [/COLOR]



Authentic seller is Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics. They are really good in their customer support, as per my experience. 

Is this the same shop you're talking about?


----------



## eaglearrow

lesp4ul said:


> No, t1e is better than ate. But if you don't like bass dominant iem, pick ate. Or you like bass but more like in acoustic, yea choose an16 or jump to gr06, zero audio carbo tenore or else.



 


I think the tenores wouldn't be a good choice for gym earphones due to their poor build quality. And about AN16, i personally dint like the sound sig.. The Mids were too forward with some what hollow sounding. The highs were less extended too. I'm sorry, i might be describing it wrong but i really regretted my purchase of AN16. Since i own a GR07BE, its impossible for me to believe that the AN16's got the same driver as Gr07.


----------



## reluctant_engineer

eisenbricher said:


> Authentic seller is Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics. They are really good in their customer support, as per my experience.
> 
> Is this the same shop you're talking about?


 
  
 Not Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics,just Shenzhen Electronics.But they too had a top seller badge or something.


----------



## EISENbricher

sujan said:


> Not Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics,just Shenzhen Electronics.But they too had a top seller badge or something.


 
 hmm.. no idea about them. What about dispute process? You may raise a dispute if you feel that you're being cheated. 
 I've had good experience with disputes (Just never close a dispute until you get it resolved.)


----------



## TwinACStacks

arsis said:


> I personnally like that approach. The clinical assessment has its place but what it really comes down to is what you find yourself reaching for most often. For a long time, shortcomings aside, I reached for my T1E the most. I think I just found the right tip and balance between easy fit, comfort and sound. Recently its been the ed9. I have others that I really like but are finicky to fit or get uncomfortable quickly. I know some of them its just a matter of finding the right tip. I have ed10 on the way. Time will tell.


 






 THAT my friend is why I have quite a few earphones. FOR SEASONING.
 Let me explain.
  
 We've all heard the sonic descriptions, and when the "audiophile types" deem an earphone as exceptional it's always RULER FLAT, HUGE, DEEP Soundstage, pinpoint resolution, Yada Yada.
  
 Unfortunately Sound in the REAL world doesn't behave like that. It echoes and bounces off of objects, Musicians adjust their Volumes mid songs, a whole host of myriad items influence sound. Not to mention the fact that Human hearing isn't that precise in the first place.
  
 Now we have the Recording itself. Recording engineers produce the Best sound they can get --- ACCORDING to the way they hear it and their personal tastes. RECORDINGS ARE NEVER PRODUCED RULER FLAT generally.
  
 On this premise I run My Source Flat to get the sound the way the Recording Engineer designed it to be, Then:
  
 I use the Various EQ's of Headphones/ Earphones, (IE, Bass Heavy, Bass Light, Mid Forward, Etc.), FOR SEASONING the sound to my Taste
  
 If You don't like the way a particular set of Earphones sounds with a particular recording, Don't change the EQ. Change Your 'phones.
  
 Just my take on things. (It also gives me a chance to try out a mess of gear)
  








 TWIN


----------



## Lohb

Cayin C5 really brings the ED9 to life (Lo-gain/bass boost off) , even though they sound great un-amped.
  
 Looking at Decibullz 200-BLK Custom Molded Earphone Adapters to finish them off, if it will be compatible. Did an image search on the thread but did not see anyone using this at-home ear-mold kit.


----------



## Ruben123

Not using EQ but instead buying other earphones for different sound sounds crazy, because another earphone is just only having a different frequency response which you could also get by EQ'ing. Which doesn't mean getting more than one pair of earphones is plenty, I do also have several pairs and sometimes try another one out of curiosity 
Which means: eq'ing your earphone could bring out 1 a totally different sound and 2 even better sound quality if done right. 

The 21st century audiophile is just too easy with money by buying other cables, amps, daps and earphones instead of learning how to eq.


----------



## Arsis

twinacstacks said:


> THAT my friend is why I have quite a few earphones. FOR SEASONING.
> Let me explain.
> 
> We've all heard the sonic descriptions, and when the "audiophile types" deem an earphone as exceptional it's always RULER FLAT, HUGE, DEEP Soundstage, pinpoint resolution, Yada Yada.
> ...


Being 20+ years audio engineer, I'm an EQer. There is no such thing as a perfect mix. When mixing song with the band in the room everyone has their own opinion of every variable. Mixing democratically is disastrous. I kick the band out and have them come back I'm done. Then I take a poll of opinion and make a few changes. I've worked in world class studios with acoustically designed rooms and the finest studio monitors and it all comes down to this. What does it sound like on the cheap, real world systems? The factory car stereo, the portable jam box, the apple earbuds? Until it sounds good on those things , its not a good mix. Mixing is a true art and very hard. The most popular studio monitor in the world, the Yamaha NS-10, is not popular because its flat, accurate and precise but because its a good representation of the average consumer hi-fi. If a mix sounds good on the NS-10 it typically translates well to other systems. Because systems vary so much a flat mix is the goal. Not because my engineer ears prefer that sound but because its the happy average. I like a good solid low end but if I mix it that way then when its played back on a bass heavy system it overwhelmingly bassy. Its all relative and subjective. I never think twice about tweaking the EQ to taste for any speaker or phone. I have a reference song that I use to check out new cans and IEMs . I EQ with that song and store a preset with that phones model number. The setting gets edited over time. I do this not to make them all flat or the same but to bring out the best in each according to my ears and preference. Its also interesting to compare the curves model to model. Some get very little. Some get a lot.


----------



## reluctant_engineer

eisenbricher said:


> hmm.. no idea about them. What about dispute process? You may raise a dispute if you feel that you're being cheated.
> I've had good experience with disputes (Just never close a dispute until you get it resolved.)


 
 There's no option to dispute.Well fortunately aliexpress mailed be that I'll have full refund if the seller doesn't respond to this issue within three days.Thanks for the concern.From now on I won't be frugal,only buying from seller recommended on head-fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now another thing to worry about.My brother ordered the ATE's around 20 days ago and it's still stuck in China.Let's hope he bought it from Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> ...because another earphone is just only having a different frequency response which you could also get by EQ'ing.


 
 EQing can NEVER achieve changes in soundstage/imaging/separation like changing different IEMs. If You are telling ppl that get any cheap ok sounding IEM and just EQ, then I think Your are in wrong place and have understood wrong or hear things totally different from most of us here.


----------



## dbhai

Well in case if there is some love for little KZ r1, available at real low
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-r1-Noise-noise-reduction-ear-headphones-music-headset-phone-headset-HIFI-headphone/32260314392.html


----------



## Lohb

dbhai said:


> Well in case if there is some love for little KZ r1, available at real low
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-r1-Noise-noise-reduction-ear-headphones-music-headset-phone-headset-HIFI-headphone/32260314392.html


 

 How are you finding the ATE ? How is the low-end on that set ?


----------



## anxonic

Got my ED10 today from http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
  
 Bit of bad luck, though. The sound in the left driver is a bit less loud than that in the right one. 
 I've contacted the seller on AliExpress, let's see where this goes.


----------



## mrmoto050

coil said:


> EQing can NEVER achieve changes in soundstage/imaging/separation like changing different IEMs. If You are telling ppl that get any cheap ok sounding IEM and just EQ, then I think Your are in wrong place and have understood wrong or hear things totally different from most of us here.


 

@CoiL Totally agree, crap is crap and cheap is cheap no matter how much EQ you add. Although there are a few cheap iem's that sound decent, but very few. jmo


----------



## dwayniac

Of the two models that I own,GR & ED9,neither have met the fun factor requirements that I want in a budget IEM. I have a DT5 coming so I haven't ruled out KZ all together.


----------



## EISENbricher

dwayniac said:


> Of the two models that I own,GR & ED9,neither have met the fun factor requirements that I want in a budget IEM. I have a DT5 coming so I haven't ruled out KZ all together.



ED10 is the most fun sounding KZ in my collection. Get one imo.


----------



## raybone0566

dwayniac said:


> Of the two models that I own,GR & ED9,neither have met the fun factor requirements that I want in a budget IEM. I have a DT5 coming so I haven't ruled out KZ all together.


KZ ed9 is a detail beast imo. I enjoy them. Maybe also look at Ed-10,Ate, & Ed-8 also.all perform well above their asking price.cheers


----------



## CADCAM

Just got an email from Aliexpress that I got a delivery...don't know if its the ANV or ED9...might even be the ED10. Hope all is good and will post what i find after work...wish me luck.
 I'll post seller info as well. After some posts I've read about quality control issue's my fingers are crossed.


----------



## Ruben123

Did anyone notice, after closing those vents to how they were supposed to be (after having a very thin sound) that the ED9's sound is now quite dark?
 What means: are they ED9s neutral-dark or are the vents not supposed to be closed that much? Because they sounded broken with the vents opened while there were small flaps half closing the vents.
  
 They do sound excellent though, Bob Dylan... never heard him better on IEMs. Theyre just not bright like I read somewhere, more neutral with an elevated bass (brass tips).


----------



## TwinACStacks

L00KIE:  What I found on Ali Express.  Dual drivers:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Professional-Music-Earphone-Two-Driver-Unit-High-Performance-In-Ear-Headphone-Headset-For/32361486668.html
  
 Sorry, but You can't be first. I have a Pair on the way....
  








 TWIN


----------



## chavez

twinacstacks said:


> L00KIE:  What I found on Ali Express.  Dual drivers:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Professional-Music-Earphone-Two-Driver-Unit-High-Performance-In-Ear-Headphone-Headset-For/32361486668.html
> 
> ...




Old news gramps. There are already reviews of theese in chinese iem discovery thread  . Also EISEN owns a pair  .You can see his comparison in his signature,they are called VJJB V1


----------



## TwinACStacks

chavez said:


> Old news gramps. There are already reviews of theese in chinese iem discovery thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Really? First I've seen them. Oh well they are coming anyways....
  
 Thanks for the Heads up. Hope I didn't pay too much for them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## mrmoto050

chavez said:


> Old news gramps. There are already reviews of theese in chinese iem discovery thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I tossed mine in the trash.


----------



## EarTips

KZ ZN1 at $42
 less $1 if use mobile
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Preheat-KZ-ZN1-headphones-smart-headset-earbuds-original-ZN1-earphone-Noise-Cancelling-bass-auriculares-audifonos-casque/32402454327.html


----------



## TwinACStacks

mrmoto050 said:


> I tossed mine in the trash.


 





 That Bad? or just cheaply Made?
  








 TWIN


----------



## mrmoto050

twinacstacks said:


> That Bad? or just cheaply Made?
> 
> TWIN


They are made well.
Didn't sound good. Even after 40 hr burn in.


----------



## Chief Stringer

twinacstacks said:


> L00KIE:  What I found on Ali Express.  Dual drivers:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Professional-Music-Earphone-Two-Driver-Unit-High-Performance-In-Ear-Headphone-Headset-For/32361486668.html
> 
> ...




Im still waiting of my ED9s and ATEs i ordered (ive never bought these kinds of cheaper earphones from china before), but ive gotta feeling im gonna start getting withdrawls from buying them like some of you dudes and crave more lol, espicially with all these different designs, sound sigs, etc


----------



## Lohb

Tried the ATE locally, just did not have the detail of ED9s, ATE not too comfortable for me. I saw the ear-tip rolling advice from @Coil, just did not like the unit size/style unfortunately.Wanted to like them.
 Might try out the ED10s as I wanted 2 pairs...one with enhanced bass for the gym. Have a 6-month warranty on the ED9s locally, where I expected a day or week warranty.


----------



## CoiL

ATE actually has pretty great details and are on par or even better than ED9 imhso (because of separation and soundstage/imaging (especially in width) being little better).
 Just the source needs to have neutral signature and well detailed large open soundstage to get best out of ATE.
 Warm source or typical smartphone sound (even with EQ) can make them somewhat too dark and "lifeless".
 And as mentioned previously, it also needs deep good fit with small large bore tips to get best out of them.
 For modders - removing nozzle grills + making them open-back helps to "enhance" highs and details littlebit.
  
 But if You like ED9 more than ATE by personal sound preference, then ED10 might be very good complement to ED9`s according to user impressions so far.
 Will get my ED10 about after 20-30 days or so.


----------



## EISENbricher

twinacstacks said:


> That Bad? or just cheaply Made?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The housing needs superglue, I had used those for 3 days only and housing started to come off on both sides. Each earpiece is made up of 3 plastic parts clipped together. Those 'clips' aren't well made like TTPOD T1E. Anyways, superglue solves the housing issue.
  
 Then the sound. It was good for price tbh but latest KZ releases, ED9, ED10 and ATE are much better at still lower price. VJJB V1 still has a very good, distinctive vertical soundstage which is a unique attribute of this earphone. Cable is not bad either, just a little sticky.
  
 I had paid about the same amount for V1, but at the very launch time, it wasn't even available on Ali, bought from TaoBao.
  


eartips said:


> KZ ZN1 at $42
> less $1 if use mobile
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Preheat-KZ-ZN1-headphones-smart-headset-earbuds-original-ZN1-earphone-Noise-Cancelling-bass-auriculares-audifonos-casque/32402454327.html


 
 The same seller had listed ZN1 for $35 just a few days ago... I had even posted the link here. Seems like he's increased the price now. Anyways the actual release date is still a little away, they say mid-august.


----------



## LePapa

Hello everyone!
  
 I'm hoping you can help me.  
  
 I have been lurking on these forums for a few weeks, looking for the best in-ear headphones to replace my crumbling old Philips SHE3580's.  Based on extensive reading in this thread, I decided on the KZ-ED9's.  I have had them for about a week now & have been putting them through their paces.  I love almost everything about them, but there is one thing that is bugging me.  I haven't seen a single person remark upon this, so I wasn't sure if maybe I have just completely strange taste in sound or if I'm missing something.
  
 It's the drums.  Specifically, the snare & high hat sounds.  They sound almost muffled or muted, there is no extension to cymbal crashes.  The bass is lovely & deep, the guitars are crunchy on chords & stinging on the solo's, the vocals are smooth as butter.  But the drums just sound tepid.  For what it's worth, I listen to just about every genre other than EDM.
  
 I have tried both the gold & brass, both with & without the foam inserts.  I tried different tips.  I tried plugging the holes on the brass & on the main body.  Nothing changes the drum sound.  I can, however, "fix" this using an equalizer (either choosing "rock" preset or boosting in the 4K to 16K ranges).  That's fine for MP3's, but doesn't help when I'm streaming from Spotify or some other source without customized settings.
  
 So is there some way to get crisper drum sounds via modifications?  Did I pick the wrong IEM's to find a sound signature similar to my old Philips?  Anybody have an recommendations on some good budget IEM's that might work better for my tastes, if this drum sound is how the ED9's are "supposed to" sound?


----------



## Lohb

I found that standing lightly on the ED9 cable and stretching it while running a hairdryer up and down makes them sound like LCD-3s, gets those nasty factory kinks out the cable.


----------



## EarTips

eisenbricher said:


> The same seller had listed ZN1 for $35 just a few days ago... I had even posted the link here. Seems like he's increased the price now. Anyways the actual release date is still a little away, they say mid-august.


 
 oh, missed that one, didn't know, thanks anw.


----------



## EISENbricher

lohb said:


> I found that standing lightly on the ED9 cable and stretching it while running a hairdryer up and down makes them sound like LCD-3s, gets those nasty factory kinks out the cable.


 
 lol man xD


----------



## CADCAM

I ended up receiving all 3 headphones the same day! The ED9, ANV & ED10 all came in from different sellers yesterday.The ED9 & ANV's were ordered on July 18th and the ED10 on the 23rd so not too bad considering they were coming from China. 
  
 So far with a quick listen I like the ED10 best hands down, it sounded great right out of the package. The ANV sounds thick with bass that bleeds into the lower mids with recessed highs and the ED9 sound shrill and just plain nasty right now. I am burning in the ANV & ED9 and will report back but they all seem to be functioning properly with no imbalance or other issue's. The ED9 may have a port issue I've been told and I will look into that. I have equipment at work that should help me see anything inside or outside of the ED9.
  
 I also have ordered the blue spiral tips Coil suggested but they have not arrived. More to follow...


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> I ended up receiving all 3 headphones the same day! The ED9, ANV & ED10 all came in from different sellers yesterday.The ED9 & ANV's were ordered on July 18th and the ED10 on the 23rd so not too bad considering they were coming from China.
> 
> So far with a quick listen I like the ED10 best hands down, it sounded great right out of the package. The ANV sounds thick with bass that bleeds into the lower mids with recessed highs and the ED9 sound shrill and just plain nasty right now. I am burning in the ANV & ED9 and will report back but they all seem to be functioning properly with no imbalance or other issue's. The ED9 may have a port issue I've been told and I will look into that. I have equipment at work that should help me see anything inside or outside of the ED9.
> 
> I also have ordered the blue spiral tips Coil suggested but they have not arrived. More to follow...


 

 Which tips on ED9 ? Mine sounded veiled at first. I stuck with the bassier gold tips after trying both.


----------



## EISENbricher

cadcam said:


> I ended up receiving all 3 headphones the same day! The ED9, ANV & ED10 all came in from different sellers yesterday.The ED9 & ANV's were ordered on July 18th and the ED10 on the 23rd so not too bad considering they were coming from China.
> 
> So far with a quick listen I like the ED10 best hands down, it sounded great right out of the package. The ANV sounds thick with bass that bleeds into the lower mids with recessed highs and the ED9 sound shrill and just plain nasty right now. I am burning in the ANV & ED9 and will report back but they all seem to be functioning properly with no imbalance or other issue's. The ED9 may have a port issue I've been told and I will look into that. I have equipment at work that should help me see anything inside or outside of the ED9.
> 
> I also have ordered the blue spiral tips Coil suggested but they have not arrived. More to follow...


 
 Great, I also like ED10 the best. Please post your impressions of ED10, since there's still lack of ED10 impressions here. Haven't you receive one pair of Blue Whirlwind tips with ED10? It comes with the package. (Along with 2 silicone black tips).


----------



## CADCAM

eisenbricher said:


> Great, I also like ED10 the best. Please post your impressions of ED10, since there's still lack of ED10 impressions here. Haven't you receive one pair of Blue Whirlwind tips with ED10? It comes with the package. (Along with 2 silicone black tips).


 
 Yes... I'm sorry I should have said that. I am using the Blue Whirlwind tips that came with the ED10. They sound excellent btw and might be the best sound I've heard from an IEM. I am new to IEM's but have 7 pairs right now and the ED10 is impressive...can't wait to spend some real time with it.


----------



## CoiL

> Originally Posted by *CADCAM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The ANV sounds *thick with bass that bleeds into the lower mids with recessed highs*


 






 ANV shouldn`t sound anything like that!


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> ANV shouldn`t sound anything like that!


 





 1000% agreed. Of the KZ's I find the ANV to be the Most Balanced and precise, just NOT the most comfortable.
  
 BUT any problems will disappear with Burn-IN. It works on MOST Earphones (admittedly, not all), but @ 200 Hours that ANV becomes amazing.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> :blink: ANV shouldn`t sound anything like that!




I agree completely. Then again, the CM9 I got recently sounds nothing like they should (based on essentially every comment ever) with massive sub-bass, and recessed mids and treble. Intense burn in with these did help bring forth the mids and treble quite a bit, but they're not the mid/treble focused iem I was expecting. Sounds like that ANV might be similar, which is really weird.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I have Wide-bore Auvio Mediums (R. Shack Sony Hybrid clone), on My ED10's with 200 Hours on them and they sound REALLY good. Bass has settled, but still retains that KZ Grunt when needed, I notice no bass bleed, or any frequencies bleeding, for that matter. Very even EQing, exceptional Mid presentation---in particular Vocals.
  
 SUPER COMFORTABLE
  
 That is whut I hear. Your results may Vary.
  
 EXACTLY HOW are they making this stuff as good as it is, selling it for the price they are asking, give free Shipping, and still making a Profit?
  








TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

eisenbricher said:


> lol man xD


 





 Pretty extreme. I just rub them with Baby powder, It unsticks them nicely. Just be careful around the barrels, we wouldn't want you to plug up the screens....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as the cable "Curls" mine all have them because I always wrap them around 3 or 4 fingers and wire tie them for storage and take with.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> I ended up receiving all 3 headphones the same day! The ED9, ANV & ED10 all came in from different sellers yesterday.The ED9 & ANV's were ordered on July 18th and the ED10 on the 23rd so not too bad considering they were coming from China.
> 
> So far with a quick listen I like the ED10 best hands down, it sounded great right out of the package. The ANV sounds thick with bass that bleeds into the lower mids with recessed highs and the ED9 sound shrill and just plain nasty right now. I am burning in the ANV & ED9 and will report back but they all seem to be functioning properly with no imbalance or other issue's. The ED9 may have a port issue I've been told and I will look into that. I have equipment at work that should help me see anything inside or outside of the ED9.
> 
> I also have ordered the blue spiral tips Coil suggested but they have not arrived. More to follow...


 

 Sorry I meant barrel not tips, my mistake... might want to try the gold barrel if bitey/shrill sounding.


----------



## EISENbricher

twinacstacks said:


> EXACTLY HOW are they making this stuff as good as it is, selling it for the price they are asking, give free Shipping, and still making a Profit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 THIS.


----------



## TwinACStacks

It's funny how everyone hears things differently. I have several Pairs of those Blue Spirals that came with various KZ's and I can't make them work with anything I put them on. My first experience with them was with the ED8s. To me they make everything narrow and shallow sounding, (they attenuate bass horrendously to my hearing), so they sit unused in my tip collection. For me the tip that works with EVERY KZ is that Generic Black Silicone narrow bore tip that they include with every earphone. The Large one works across the board. Better with some, less with others.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> ANV shouldn`t sound anything like that!


 
 OK hopefully with burn-in time things get better. I have also learned that the correct tips are critical to good sound with IEM's so I did order the Blue Whirlwind tips you suggested a while back. I also have a bag of tips I've accumulated and need go through them experimenting. One issue is my ears and canals are small and I usually need to use the smallest tips.
  
 BTW I'm coming from an 24' X 18' room with twin McCormack amps powering Monitor Audio speakers so this whole transition to headphones has been an experience for me. When you guys talk about the sound stage with headphones...well I struggle with that because I've experienced height, width and depth along with instrument separation and positioning that I still haven't experienced with any of my headphones. I do truly enjoy this hobby though, it's sooo much easier to listen with headphones and the Kz prices are crazy!


----------



## CADCAM

lohb said:


> Sorry I meant barrel not tips, my mistake... might want to try the gold barrel if bitey/shrill sounding.


 
 I definitely will...thanks


----------



## Ruben123

Dont you mean ATE instead of ANV?


----------



## CoiL

cadcam said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ANV shouldn`t sound anything like that!
> ...


 
*ANV* does not require any burn-in to sound as it should be. Maybe You got fake, re-labeled old version or faulty unit?
 Those whirlwinds I suggested only for ATE. With *ANV* I use ED9 medium grey ones. Tried many different ones in different sizes (triple and double flanges, huawei honor longer tips etc.) but longer tips doesn`t seem to improve anything and even seems that shorter/larger tips in front "chamber" of ear-canal sound better with *ANV*.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> *ANV* does not require any burn-in to sound as it should be. Maybe You got fake, re-labeled old version or faulty unit?
> Those whirlwinds I suggested only for ATE. With *ANV* I use ED9 medium grey ones. Tried many different ones in different sizes (triple and double flanges, huawei honor longer tips etc.) but longer tips doesn`t seem to improve anything and even seems that shorter/larger tips in front "chamber" of ear-canal sound better with *ANV*.


 
 OK points taken. It seems logical to me that tip size would be relative to ear canal diameter.
 I am a firm believer in allowing a driver to burn-in and always have burned in all my headphones. Some headphones completely transform as my Superlux did while others seemed to sound excellent straight from the box and the burn-in time did little to improve sound. I hope you're wrong and the ANV benefits from some burn-in time because it was way to thick and woolly in the bass.
  
 BTW I take an initial listen to a headphone when I get it home, usually take a few notes then start the burn-in process. I do not listen to the headphone during this process. I also believe in brain burn-in and want to avoid it as much as possible. I will take a quick (few second) listen after 20 hours then after 40 hrs just to check for mechanical failure. I usually go about 100 hrs and only then start listening seriously. I believe after 100 hours most headphones are good to go but I've had people tell me some hp's need more.
 I use an Onkyo 6 disc platter loaded with a wide variety of music and do stop every so often and let the hp's have a break. 
 The ANV's have been playing all day while I'm at work as well as the ED9.


----------



## CoiL

I usually use same "burn-in" method as You and also try to avoid brain-burn-in during that process.
  
 About ANV, You really can`t have same ANV version/product as others here have because ANV does not sound by any means woolly and thick in the bass! If anything ANV can littlebit lack in the sub-bass department. It has very clean, fast, punchy detailed bass and percussion.
 I did same kind of burn-in process as You mentioned with ANV and even used more powerful amping than my modded DX50 but ANV sound stayed same to my ears. Maybe little less "harsh" highs but it could be pseudo-effect.
 Sorry to hear that Your ANV sounds like this but it isn`t probably the "correct" version You have.
 Pity thing is that aliexpress is full of those same as ANV-looking IEMs, some claimed to be older version, some with different branding/name. Maybe You can post exact link where Your bought from so others can avoid it?


----------



## B9Scrambler

My ED10 arrived today!!!​  
​  
 Let's just say that I'm looking forward to the full burn-in process (both brain and driver), and even more so the resulting KZ Shootout! In this shootout the EDse, ED3, ED9, ED10, R3, ANV, ATE, and Micro Ring will dual to see who reigns supreme among KZ (or at least those I own...). EDIT: Forgot about the CM9! It'll be there too


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> My ED10 arrived today!!!​
> ​
> Let's just say that I'm looking forward to the full burn-in process (both brain and driver), and even more so the resulting KZ Shootout! In this shootout the EDse, ED3, ED9, ED10, R3, ANV, ATE, and Micro Ring will dual to see who reigns supreme among KZ (or at least those I own...).


 





 Scrambler, Give them a proper Burn-in to settle that OTB FORWARD Bass presentation, (these are one of the "phones that GREATLY improve with burn in, tightens them right up), and you have just received the pair that are going to place VERY Highly on that KZ List.
  
 I personally am very impressed with them. I had just written them off as another one of the continuing ED series being churned out by the KZ machine. I was wrong in my assumption. There is something special going on in this little earphone.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Give them a proper Burn-in to settle that OTB FORWARD Bass presentation, and You have just received the pair that are going to place VERY Highly on that KZ List.
> 
> I personally am very impressed with them. I had just written them off as another one of the ED series being churned out by the KZ machine. I was wrong in my assumption. There is something going on in this little earphone.
> 
> ...


 
 I actually don't find them overly bassy tbh. I almost passed on buying these too. That would have been a mistake.
  
 I did swap out the stock blue tips immediately. They feel nice and are of good quality, but just don't seal at all for me. Till I find something better, I'm using my fav set of medium wide bores...not sure what they originally came with, but they pair exceptionally well.
  
 So far my favorite aspect is their uber-punchy bass.It's quick and hits HARD (this shows off that hard hitting bass pretty well). Very exciting


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> I actually don't find them overly bassy tbh. I almost passed on buying these too. That would have been a mistake.
> 
> I did swap out the stock blue tips immediately. They feel nice and are of good quality, but just don't seal at all for me. Till I find something better, I'm using my fav set of medium wide bores...not sure what they originally came with, but they pair exceptionally well.
> 
> So far my favorite aspect is their uber-punchy bass.It's quick and hits HARD (this shows off that hard hitting bass pretty well). Very exciting


 





 It gets better. I burned those suckers in for 200 Hours. I took an initial listen for 4Hours OTB then checked back every 50 Hours and they steadily improved. Didn't notice a drastic change after 150 Hours, but I didn't chance it. When You are listening for short periods every 50 hours, there is little or no chance for "Brain Burn-In" to occur. It is what it is.
  
 EXCITING is my *favorite* audio descriptive term.
  








 TWIN


----------



## hoshiyomi

agree on the bass.
  
 I find it slightly exagerated and starts to loose steam towards 30hz, but rumble / decay is good below with just a little bleed into mids. I find them to be an improvement compared to ED9 as that they are cleaner sounding, in the sense that ED9 appear to have poor power handling that causes higher order distortions to become quite audiable at higher volume transients, contributing to its "harder" / brighter perceived character.
  
 All KZs I have received so far seem to have really bad QC though. Every pair I've received so far has channel matching issues to a certain degree, which can be confirmed upon playing 50hz sine test tones. ED10 seemed to have some glue blocking the rear port on one side that resulted in bass loss, and luckily was an easy to fix with a pin. Build quality is great though, I really like the shell / design, cable is kind of meh (sticky & kinky), but some tugging and applying of talcum powder fixes it. Overall money well spent for the sound!
  
 If I were buying cheap KZs as gifts, ED10 would so far be my first choice.


----------



## CADCAM

OK FYI I purchased my ED9's from KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store   -    http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
the ANV came from Swallow(Shenzhen)Electronics Co.,Ltd   -   http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1413064
the ED10's from Shenzhen integrity electronics   -   http://www.aliexpress.com/store/523133
  
 The ED10 sounded great right out of the packaging but haven't really had time to listen yet...
  
 ED9 sounded awful on first listen but after playing all last night and most of today I took a quick listen and they sound like a different hp. Treble has been tamed and they seem to be very resolving of detail. Bass is so so but they sound so much better that I am listening as I type this! I believe I am using the gold nozzle as the other nozzle looks quite dull?? 
  
 ANV sounded different than yesterday but I noticed if I didn't insert the tip deeply they sounded very good, when I inserted the tips to my usual depth bass was overwhelming again so...
 I don't think the ANV is a fake but I assume anything is possible. If anyone has any info on the store I purchased from please advise.
  
 I'll finish burning them in and start burning in the ED10 and post results.
 To be continued...


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> My ED10 arrived today!!!​
> ​
> Let's just say that I'm looking forward to the full burn-in process (both brain and driver), and even more so the resulting KZ Shootout! In this shootout the EDse, ED3, ED9, ED10, R3, ANV, ATE, and Micro Ring will dual to see who reigns supreme among KZ (or at least those I own...).


 
 That kids cute as anything! My ED10 sounds great right now as I have a quick listen, if they improve from here we have a winner...


----------



## TwinACStacks

cadcam said:


> OK FYI I purchased my ED9's from KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store   -    http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
> the ANV came from Swallow(Shenzhen)Electronics Co.,Ltd   -   http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1413064
> the ED10's from Shenzhen integrity electronics   -   http://www.aliexpress.com/store/523133
> 
> ...


 





 I'm looking at my pair right now. Are the Backs Ceramic with an end cap that says gk in cursive script also the top has left and right in a silvery cursive as well? ANV in Blue Block on the fronts? If so, they are genuine.
  
 I have a medium generic Medium-Bore Black tip on it and it sounds awesome. They insert a whole lot like a Dunu Titan, only bulkier.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

cadcam said:


> That kids cute as anything! My ED10 sounds great right now as I have a quick listen, if they improve from here we have a winner...


 





 They do. Quite a bit as a matter of fact.
  








 TWIN


----------



## theuprising

cadcam said:


> ED9 sounded awful on first listen but after playing all last night and most of today I took a quick listen and they sound like a different hp. Treble has been tamed and they seem to be very resolving of detail. Bass is so so but they sound so much better that I am listening as I type this! I believe I am using the gold nozzle as the other nozzle looks quite dull??


 
 Read the rest of the thread, with the gold nozzle the ED9 is just a crappy V shaped headphone, it needs the bronze or red to shine.


----------



## RedTwilight

twinacstacks said:


> I'm looking at my pair right now. Are the Backs Ceramic with an end cap that says gk in cursive script also the top has left and right in a silvery cursive as well? ANV in Blue Block on the fronts? If so, they are genuine.
> 
> I have a medium generic Medium-Bore Black tip on it and it sounds awesome. They insert a whole lot like a Dunu Titan, only bulkier.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I found that spinfits gave me the best fit with ANV. The other tips just didn't seal.

 Also, for anyone who's interested, Micro Ring going for $13:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-micro-ring-HIFI-double-heavy-bass-headphones-mobile-music-noise-canceling-headphones-sports-headphones/2046040451.html


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> That kids cute as anything! My ED10 sounds great right now as I have a quick listen, if they improve from here we have a winner...


 

 Cute in the Goblin sense ?


----------



## Lohb

Are KZ bringing a BA IEM or do any of you know a lead on an entry-level price BA IEM that is good ?


----------



## Lohb

theuprising said:


> Read the rest of the thread, with the gold nozzle the ED9 is just a crappy V shaped headphone, it needs the bronze or red to shine.


 

 ...or a portable amp...or an HRT microStreamer off a phone which has strong mids focus.
 The mids are fine/present for me with a good source and a decent amp with gold tips though I'm going to try the more linear brass barrel again with amping...though I thought the treble on the brass barrel was too bright vs gold barrel.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> I actually don't find them overly bassy tbh. I almost passed on buying these too. That would have been a mistake.
> 
> I did swap out the stock blue tips immediately. They feel nice and are of good quality, but just don't seal at all for me. Till I find something better, I'm using my fav set of medium wide bores...not sure what they originally came with, but they pair exceptionally well.
> 
> So far my favorite aspect is their uber-punchy bass.It's quick and hits HARD (this shows off that hard hitting bass pretty well). Very exciting


 
 They are actually overly bassy for people who are into neutral sound. But if you even love slight more bass then ED10 is right up the alley. 
 Give this a listen : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogJt9aXQu3A  at around 1:00 minute mark, check how satisfying the bass actually is. And try A-B with ED9 or ATE.  Check out their new release ZN1 though, interesting dual driver earphone with inbuilt amp and EQ.
  


twinacstacks said:


> It gets better. I burned those suckers in for 200 Hours. I took an initial listen for 4Hours OTB then checked back every 50 Hours and they steadily improved. Didn't notice a drastic change after 150 Hours, but I didn't chance it. When You are listening for short periods every 50 hours, there is little or no chance for "Brain Burn-In" to occur. It is what it is.
> 
> EXCITING is my *favorite* audio descriptive term.
> 
> ...


 
 Along with Exciting I also term them as Aggressive. Mainly because of their ability to produce hard, slamming bass at the same time being really sensitive. Among the KZ earphones which I own they require least power/bars of volume level.
  


lohb said:


> Are KZ bringing a BA IEM or do any of you know a lead on an entry-level price BA IEM that is good ?


 
 Not in near future and there is currently no development/planning going on. Mainly because KZ doesn't make BA drivers themselves and 3rd party BA drivers are expensive (As said by KZ representative) and can not be tuned by KZ as per their choice.


----------



## EISENbricher

By the way, saw this inside structure of ZN1. Pretty impressive.


----------



## RedTwilight

lohb said:


> Are KZ bringing a BA IEM or do any of you know a lead on an entry-level price BA IEM that is good ?


 
  
 The micro ring is tiny enough to pass off as one.


----------



## Lohb

ED9 shine with this 'left of leftfield' electronica track. Just tried it straight out my Macbook Air. Nothing much held back in the mids IMO.
  
 Edit : it would be good if someone compiled a models impressions cheat sheet list into post 1.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > I actually don't find them overly bassy tbh.
> ...


 
 Eisen, I see from Your signature that You rate ED10 above ATE. Is it because of Your personal preference towards littlebit more bass and V-shaped sound signature or something else?
 How about soundstage/separation/details between ATE vs. ED10 ?
  
 I know I`m more into neutral(but natural) sound signature and probably ED10 will have too much bass for my preference but I`m curious about other nuances.
 My ED10 still haven`t shipped, probably will get them about month, if at all.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> They are actually overly bassy for people who are into neutral sound. But if you even love slight more bass then ED10 is right up the alley.
> Give this a listen : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogJt9aXQu3A  at around 1:00 minute mark, check how satisfying the bass actually is. And try A-B with ED9 or ATE.  Check out their new release ZN1 though, interesting dual driver earphone with inbuilt amp and EQ.


 
  
 I could definitely see them being too bassy for neutral sound lovers. I'm not sure if I've even tried a truly neutral iem. The closest I've got is probably the UE600 and those certainly are not flat. I'll have to check out that suggested video later, thanks! For my shootout I'll be doing lots of a/bing...going be a pain in the tush.
  
 I will definitely be getting the ZN1, once they are released. Not sure how much I would be willing to spend,...guess that will depend on other's impressions. We shall see.


----------



## CoiL

> I'm not sure if I've even tried a truly neutral iem. The closest I've got is probably the UE600 and those certainly are not flat.


 
 What about source gear? It`s not only IEM/HP job to make that "flatness" in resulting sound signature. All begins with source which sets "base" for sound quality and signature.
 If one has very neutral/flat and "cold" sounding source gear, sound from ED10 may result pretty n*at*ural "end signature" without being bassy.
 In contrary, littlebit bright sounding ED9 (with brass nozzles) could end up also pretty n*at*ural and towards to neutral signature with warm sounding source gear.


----------



## CADCAM

twinacstacks said:


> I'm looking at my pair right now. Are the Backs Ceramic with an end cap that says gk in cursive script also the top has left and right in a silvery cursive as well? ANV in Blue Block on the fronts? If so, they are genuine.
> 
> I have a medium generic Medium-Bore Black tip on it and it sounds awesome. They insert a whole lot like a Dunu Titan, only bulkier.
> 
> ...


 
 I will take a good look at mine at home and report back.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Eisen, I see from Your signature that You rate ED10 above ATE. Is it because of Your personal preference towards littlebit more bass and V-shaped sound signature or something else?
> How about soundstage/separation/details between ATE vs. ED10 ?
> 
> I know I`m more into neutral(but natural) sound signature and probably ED10 will have too much bass for my preference but I`m curious about other nuances.
> My ED10 still haven`t shipped, probably will get them about month, if at all.


 
 Yeap, all ratings are according to my personal preference. I had written the same in my sig, but the space is too short so removed it later. And yes! I'm a bass lover. But the deep bass should be complemented by good amount of details and soundstage. I would have called myself basshead but that term has been maligned by a stereotype which sees a basshead, as someone who loves 'only' bass.
  
 Hmm... for that I need to do some A-B between ATE and ED10. Honestly, I'm a person who tends to stick to one earphone for long time. Since arrival of ED10 I have hardly listened to any other. I'll definitely try to post the comparison tonight.
  
 I suspect so. That's a possibility for sure. But still, being a KZ and being one of the best offerings, it's worth collecting. And who knows, you might even love it. Risk worth trying. 
  
 BTW, I had ordered DT3 and they just arrived : ) opening the box yay. 
  


b9scrambler said:


> I could definitely see them being too bassy for neutral sound lovers. I'm not sure if I've even tried a truly neutral iem. The closest I've got is probably the UE600 and those certainly are not flat. I'll have to check out that suggested video later, thanks! For my shootout I'll be doing lots of a/bing...going be a pain in the tush.
> 
> I will definitely be getting the ZN1, once they are released. Not sure how much I would be willing to spend,...guess that will depend on other's impressions. We shall see.


 
 I'm also not too sure... but if I believe others then Havi B3 is the closest neutral that I've listened to. Tbh while my brain honors the earphone, my heart doesn't enjoy the sound. Good luck, looking forward to your comparisons.
  
 Cool. I also don't want to miss the train. Especially since the dual driver setup is looking intriguing. I've seen one store pre-release price $35, so I think they will surely be costing <$35. But how low the price fells, time will tell.


----------



## CoiL

It may look genuine but it can be "older" version of ANV which is still unclear how to identify against newer version.
  
 Btw, In addition to Eisen "most neutral IEM I have listened", I also think B3P1 is one of the most neutral beside ANV (which I find tad more neutral/flat with littlebit better bass representation with my source gear and ears etc.). And like Eisen, my brain can love and appreciate that neutral signature... BUT... I could not enjoy them like I do ATE.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> What about source gear? It`s not only IEM/HP job to make that "flatness" in resulting sound signature. All begins with source which sets "base" for sound quality and signature.
> If one has very neutral/flat and "cold" sounding source gear, sound from ED10 may result pretty n*at*ural "end signature" without being bassy.
> In contrary, littlebit bright sounding ED9 (with brass nozzles) could end up also pretty n*at*ural and towards to neutral signature with warm sounding source gear.




None of my sources are flat. Nexus S is warm and bassy, Moto G is cold and bright, Plantronics Rig boosts either treble, mids, or bass depending on setting. I have the Creative Recon 3D but I've grown to dislike it....too much background noise. 

I also have an old Samsung mp3 player (can't recall the model...has fold out speakers and a powerful amp though). Will have to pull it out of storage to see if it still works and how it sounds vs. more modern equipment.


----------



## CADCAM

theuprising said:


> Read the rest of the thread, with the gold nozzle the ED9 is just a crappy V shaped headphone, it needs the bronze or red to shine.


 
 Yea I'll jump right on that


----------



## Enuma-elis

Have anyone yet noticed the hiss-prones of ED10? It's interesting, since ATE generates quite low amount of hiss even from integrated soundcard, on the other side ED10 hissing more then Astrotec AX35. I guess ATE and ED10 definitely doesn't share the same driver.


----------



## CoiL

Hiss with ATE? Can`t hear any with DX50 @ mid-gain with medium/normal listening volume (196). Neither with dead-quiet part or while music going on. Maybe with louder volumes there can be slight hiss but I don`t want to try and accidently damage my hearing.


----------



## EISENbricher

enuma-elis said:


> Have anyone yet noticed the hiss-prones of ED10? It's interesting, since ATE generates quite low amount of hiss even from integrated soundcard, on the other side ED10 hissing more then Astrotec AX35. I guess ATE and ED10 definitely doesn't share the same driver.


 
 'Hiss prone' is a bad term to describe. ED10 is just very sensitive IEM. At even low volume levels it produces big sound levels. I've already mentioned that here before.

 That said, a sensitive earphone can very well expose the source noise. And in your case if you listening hissing sound, means that your source itself is noisy.


----------



## CADCAM

redtwilight said:


> I found that spinfits gave me the best fit with ANV. The other tips just didn't seal.
> 
> Also, for anyone who's interested, Micro Ring going for $13:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-micro-ring-HIFI-double-heavy-bass-headphones-mobile-music-noise-canceling-headphones-sports-headphones/2046040451.html


 
 Snagged them... Thank you!


----------



## Enuma-elis

eisenbricher said:


> 'Hiss prone' is a bad term to describe. ED10 is just very sensitive IEM. At even low volume levels it produces big sound levels. I've already mentioned that here before.
> 
> That said, a sensitive earphone can very well expose the source noise. And in your case if you listening hissing sound, means that your source itself is noisy.


 
 Yep, that's what I meant. Thank you for clearing it up Eisen.


----------



## chavez

How this sounds on ED10  ?
  
  
 https://youtu.be/hEPQhXnOLZ4


----------



## EISENbricher

DT3 arrived today. Out of the box impressions : This is a KZ earphone of EDSE generation. While I was never really expecting it to outclass any of the recent KZ releases, this was meant to be a collectible in my KZ collection.
  
 Anyways, DT3 sounds like EDSE with more bass and slightly less detailed highs. It has V-shaped sound signature. Bass is slightly overpowering but with a little bit of EQ adjustment it settled back. Still I find that the bass bleads into the lower mids a little. Also the bass, though deep, is dry-ish sounding. Comparing to ED10 which has very fluid sounding, fun bass, DT3's bass is dry. In comparison with ED10/ED9/ATE is also pales in highs and mids. 
  
 Build quality is not like usual KZ metal tanks. The cable is slightly thinner, but is not at all sticky and feels durable enough. Also it's fairly tangle free. Earpieces are made up of plastic. Strain relief at earpieces are good, while on the jack it's average.
  
 These are just OOTB impressions, maybe burn in will improve this. Don't take my opinion in a wrong way, because as I said, this is essentially an EDSE with boosted bass. Still a good enough deal under $10.


----------



## Enuma-elis

chavez said:


> How this sounds on ED10  ?
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/hEPQhXnOLZ4


 
 I guess I prefer ATE performance. But not having Aune T1 with me right now, and using not enought burned earphones(still ED10 has much more hours of burning). ED10s bass is big, but still shallow and a bit boomy. I hope there'll be improvement.


----------



## Enuma-elis

coil said:


> Hiss with ATE? Can`t hear any with DX50 @ mid-gain with medium/normal listening volume (196). Neither with dead-quiet part or while music going on. Maybe with louder volumes there can be slight hiss but I don`t want to try and accidently damage my hearing.


 
 Offtopic: CoiL, you do not listen to Coil music? Well a bit of a disappointment .


----------



## CADCAM

Hey guys what's the difference between CM9 and ANV? Also the difference between ED2 & EDSE?
  
 Just ordered the EDSE!
  
 thanks


----------



## chavez

cadcam said:


> Hey guys what's the difference between CM9 and ANV? Also the difference between ED2 & EDSE?
> 
> Just ordered the EDSE!
> 
> thanks


 
  
 When you start buying,there is no going back.Good luck mate  . Also no one knows difference between ED2 and EDSE,apparently its only the front grill color. Master Wokei is the only one that has both and said that he hears no difference.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Hey guys what's the difference between CM9 and ANV? Also the difference between ED2 & EDSE?
> 
> Just ordered the EDSE!
> 
> thanks




I have both the CM9 and ANV. The CM is supposed to be treble and mid focused from what I read, however mine are sub-bass monsters. Decent detail in treble and mids with a good soundstage, but the bass overshadows all. Overall a weird iem....

The ANV is pretty balanced, a little dry and crisp sounding, but in general pretty awesome. Great detail and image separation, quick bass, not super deep though and a spacious soundstage. They're one of the more balanced KZ offerings. I highly recommended them.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> I have both the CM9 and ANV. The CM is supposed to be treble and mid focused from what I read, however mine are sub-bass monsters. Decent detail in treble and mids with a good soundstage, but the bass overshadows all. Overall a weird iem....
> 
> The ANV is pretty balanced, a little dry and crisp sounding, but in general pretty awesome. Great detail and image separation, quick bass, not super deep though and a spacious soundstage. They're one of the more balanced KZ offerings. I highly recommended them.


 
 I ordered the ANV but may have received the CM9... from what I've seen they look very similar. I am going to take a real close look when I get home. It sounds like you describe with gobs and gobs of bass bleeding all over the lower mids though. I do notice if I don't insert the tips as deep they sound better with less low end. Are they clearly marked CM9 & ANV?


----------



## CoiL

enuma-elis said:


> chavez said:
> 
> 
> > How this sounds on ED10  ?
> ...


 

 ATE sounds awesome with Aune T1. Though, my unit is pretty heavily modified and using high-end Siemens E88CC goldpin grey shield "Holy grail" tube with amp @ mid gain - ATE really starts to "shine". Almost same good as pairing with Fidelio X1. I`m thinking about getting Cayin C5 for my DX50 for more juice but won`t do it before I finish some newer hardware mods to DX50.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I ordered the ANV but may have received the CM9... from what I've seen they look very similar. I am going to take a real close look when I get home. It sounds like you describe with gobs and gobs of bass bleeding all over the lower mids though. I do notice if I don't insert the tips as deep they sound better with less low end. Are they clearly marked CM9 & ANV?




They would be marked ANV or CM9 on the underside of the housing that rests against your ear. They also look very different. The CM9 looks similar to the Dunu Titan 1. The ANV is this giant, oddly shaped, and curvacous thing. I'll post pics later after I get home from work.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> They would be marked ANV or CM9 on the underside of the housing that rests against your ear. They also look very different. The CM9 looks similar to the Dunu Titan 1. The ANV is this giant, oddly shaped, and curvacous thing. I'll post pics later after I get home from work.


 
 Definitely got the CM9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 they say CM9 right on them, the back side is also chrome and not black as pictured. I messaged the seller and now am waiting for a response...they have massive amounts of bass if I insert them normal. If I do more like half way the bass is tamed but they still sound weird.
 Might be good for bass-head but not my taste.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Definitely got the CM9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's a bummer. Your CM9 sound reminiscent of mine. The best description I can think of for them is standing beside a subwoofer while the other speakers are firing the remainder of the sound away from you. If you toss on extremely wide bore tips it helps a lot, but they still sound odd. They are quite a bit of fun with 80s music though. I suggest giving them a try with that, or synth-pop. They're not useless as-is, but they are definitely not good as all-rounders, haha.


----------



## CADCAM

Maybe the seller will send me a real pair of ANV's... that would be great. 
  
 I also have switched the nozzles on the ED9 from the shinny gold to the dull copper\brass. One of the brass nozzles needed me to push the little filter down so it would stick on the inside correctly, it was half curled up in the air. Also used the small standard tips instead of the ones that are on them when they ship.
 Listening to Strunz & Farah on the Capella amp & BM MKII DAC and they sound so much better. I only listened for a few minutes then back to the "burn-in" station but I would say a vast improvement from what I heard originally. 
 The ED10's are still simmering on low...


----------



## TwinACStacks

Boy- Oh-Boy. I've been listening to this ED10 now for 2 nights. Sure, it has a somewhat KZ signature but there's MUCH more going on here, in a VERY GOOD WAY.  If you don't have these Yet, GET THEM.
  
 This is easily the Best KZ I have. The Bass isn't overpowering, but it is responsive, crisp, deep and FAST, it doesn't bleed at all into other frequencies, the Mids are exceptional, Detailed, pin point revealing on Vocals, especially female, and the Highs are just *SWEET. Totally Balanced. Think HAVI, only with BALLS!!!!*
  
*It easily rivals My Dunu Titans, and may even be somewhat better. However the Titans are still more open sounding with a wider soundstage due to the Venting, but they are ALSO More fatiguing because of the Treble forwardness.*
  
 Gentlemen, I TRULY believe this to be the FIRST KZ GIANTKILLER!!!  For Chris'sake it even hangs in there with my Trinity Deltas!!!!
  
 To think, I was going to write this off without buying it as just another of the KZ ED series.
  
 It just KEEPS getting Better. Right Now it's in rotation with the Deltas...
  
 JMHO
  
 BTW: I'm ordering another Pair for the MRS.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

*IT IS DONE*. Just ordered another pair of ED10 from the same seller as my first pair for a whopping $8.34 USD.
  








 TWIN


----------



## r2muchstuff

eisenbricher said:


> DT3 arrived today. Out of the box impressions : This is a KZ earphone of EDSE generation. While I was never really expecting it to outclass any of the recent KZ releases, this was meant to be a collectible in my KZ collection.
> 
> Anyways, DT3 sounds like EDSE with more bass and slightly less detailed highs. It has V-shaped sound signature. Bass is slightly overpowering but with a little bit of EQ adjustment it settled back. Still I find that the bass bleads into the lower mids a little. Also the bass, though deep, is dry-ish sounding. Comparing to ED10 which has very fluid sounding, fun bass, DT3's bass is dry. In comparison with ED10/ED9/ATE is also pales in highs and mids.
> 
> ...


 

 I find the dt3 to be a great yard work iem.  The fit, light weight, over ear option (with cinch) and the extra bass work well while mowing/edging/weed eating/blowing etc.  EDSE are also good but do not stay in place as well due to their weight.  I have an extra pair for when the stress of summer kills the first ones.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## SSSN

I just received my translucent, non-remote ATEs and I am blown away. The bass is so ******* solid and clean, the vocals so forward and the highs manage the balance between dull and sibilant. Brilliant IEM, comfortable too. If only isolation was higher, I'd use them for commuting. Foam tips worsen the sound considerably unfortunately, they do best with silicone.


----------



## EISENbricher

sssn said:


> I just received my translucent, non-remote ATEs and I am blown away. The bass is so ******* solid and clean, the vocals so forward and the highs manage the balance between dull and sibilant. Brilliant IEM, comfortable too. If only isolation was higher, I'd use them for commuting. Foam tips worsen the sound considerably unfortunately, they do best with silicone.


 
 Agreed, foam tips aren't best suited for ATE. Silicone are much better.
  


twinacstacks said:


> Boy- Oh-Boy. I've been listening to this ED10 now for 2 nights. Sure, it has a somewhat KZ signature but there's MUCH more going on here, in a VERY GOOD WAY.  If you don't have these Yet, GET THEM.
> 
> This is easily the Best KZ I have. The Bass isn't overpowering, but it is responsive, crisp, deep and FAST, it doesn't bleed at all into other frequencies, the Mids are exceptional, Detailed, pin point revealing on Vocals, especially female, and the Highs are just *SWEET. Totally Balanced. Think HAVI, only with BALLS!!!!*
> 
> ...


 
 Oh Twin, I hope I had writing skills like you. My english is not that good, pretty much why I still don't write reviews. 
 You just made pretty big claims btw, lol. I don't oppose anything really, I havne't heard any of the above mentioned earphones so I rely on you and other for comparative evaluation. 
  
 As written in my signature, ED10 is best KZ for me. Actually I'm liking it more than Tenore after some burn in. It might move at very top position in my favorite list!
  


r2muchstuff said:


> I find the dt3 to be a great yard work iem.  The fit, light weight, over ear option (with cinch) and the extra bass work well while mowing/edging/weed eating/blowing etc.  EDSE are also good but do not stay in place as well due to their weight.  I have an extra pair for when the stress of summer kills the first ones.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 
 Of course it is. Just that ED10 is a step up in KZ's bass department and covers all aspects of DT3 and excelling at all. ED10 is also lightweight, fits very well and super comfortable. And of course much sturdier build. DT3 is a blast from the past


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> The Bass isn't overpowering, but it is responsive, crisp, deep and FAST, it doesn't bleed at all into other frequencies, the Mids are exceptional, Detailed, pin point revealing on Vocals, especially female, and the Highs are just SWEET. Totally Balanced. Think HAVI, only with BALLS!!!!


 
 So far I have read rather opposite about ED10 - being little "bass oriented", bass bleeds littlebit into mids, rather V-shaped signature not balanced
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe it is quite dependent on source gear?


> This is easily the Best KZ I have.
> It easily rivals My Dunu Titans, and may even be somewhat better. However the Titans are still more open sounding with a wider soundstage due to the Venting, but they are ALSO More fatiguing because of the Treble forwardness.
> ...the FIRST KZ GIANTKILLER!!!  For Chris'sake it even hangs in there with my Trinity Deltas!!!!


 
 Some really bold words. Don`t take this bad way but every time You get new KZ IEM You "scream out loud" like a baby who just got a new toy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Too much emotion about "fresh sound" and too little ear/brain analyzing sound differences imo.
  
 I`m not claiming You being wrong but Your impressions might be somewhat misleading in all this subjectivness. Maybe point out exactly what gear did You use for evaluating/comparing and what is Your personal sound signature preference?
  
 So far, ANV and EDSE have been closest to HAVI B3P1 in their own way imo. Don`t have trinity Deltas, neither Titans but
 hopefully will get my ED10 soon to hear myself if those bold claims are rather true than misleading.
  
  


sssn said:


> I just received my translucent, non-remote ATEs and I am blown away. The bass is so ******* solid and clean, the vocals so forward and the highs manage the balance between dull and sibilant. Brilliant IEM, comfortable too. If only isolation was higher, I'd use them for commuting. Foam tips worsen the sound considerably unfortunately, they do best with silicone.


 
 Yes, silicones are way better for ATE. Which ones do You use atm? If You have small/narrow ear-canals, then get smallest KZ whirlwind tips (don`t come with KZ IEM`s and must be ordered separately) or try ED9 smallest tips. http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5325#post_11782749


----------



## Lohb

coil said:


> So far I have read rather opposite about ED10 - being little "bass oriented", bass bleeds littlebit into mids, rather V-shaped signature not balanced
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I find ED-9 quite dependent on source gear now anyway.Do find the ED-9 barrel shape falls out my ears even with smallest eartips. Waiting on my ear-clips to fix that.
 Grabbed ED-10 as well....from aliexpress.
 Always imagined it would be difficult to buy from them, when they accept overseas visa cards as well as those 3rd party payment methods.


----------



## SSSN

coil said:


> Yes, silicones are way better for ATE. Which ones do You use atm? If You have small/narrow ear-canals, then get smallest KZ whirlwind tips (don`t come with KZ IEM`s and must be ordered separately) or try ED9 smallest tips. http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5325#post_11782749


 
  
 I am currently using the largest silicone tips that came with the ATE. I also tried the flimsy, wide-bore Piston V2 tips and they sound pretty much the same. I'm gonna try out and make some DIY Hybrid tips using this guide: https://i.imgur.com/S6KWegj.png


----------



## CoiL

Yes, that might work for You, tried it also with my ATE: http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/15#post_11787305
 Got very good seal that way but bass became littlebit more thick and "elevated".
 You have large ear-canalsbased on Your comment and still, maybe large whirlwinds have better result because "enforcing ribbons"? Anyway, recommend to try out if haven`t yet.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sssn said:


> I just received my translucent, non-remote ATEs and I am blown away. The bass is so ******* solid and clean, the vocals so forward and the highs manage the balance between dull and sibilant. Brilliant IEM, comfortable too. If only isolation was higher, I'd use them for commuting. Foam tips worsen the sound considerably unfortunately, they do best with silicone.




The ATE are definitely a great iem, no doubt. To my ears they and the Micro Ring are the best for long listening periods since they aren't exaggerated in any particular frequencies. Makes for an easy listen


----------



## magewick

Hi guys!

 I'm a huge electronic music and hip-hop lover, and after breaking my EDSE earbuds I'm looking for a new replacement. I'm all about noise isolation and deep, strong bass. Which model would you recommend for my taste, ED9 or ED10 ?


----------



## EISENbricher

magewick said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I'm a huge electronic music and hip-hop lover, and after breaking my EDSE earbuds I'm looking for a new replacement. I'm all about noise isolation and deep, strong bass. Which model would you recommend for my taste, ED9 or ED10 ?


 
 Seriously, close your eyes and get ED10. I'm fellow EDM lover and ED10 are best match for the genre. Isolation is not the best but certainly better than ED9. Deep, strong bass? Check.


----------



## magewick

eisenbricher said:


> Seriously, close your eyes and get ED10. I'm fellow EDM lover and ED10 are best match for the genre. Isolation is not the best but certainly better than ED9. Deep, strong bass? Check.


 
 Thanks mate, I'm going for it. Which seller do you prefer, I'm buying on Aliexpress.


----------



## Lohb

magewick said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I'm a huge electronic music and hip-hop lover, and after breaking my EDSE earbuds I'm looking for a new replacement. I'm all about noise isolation and deep, strong bass. Which model would you recommend for my taste, ED9 or ED10 ?


 

 Probably ED10 or ATE from impressions so far.


----------



## r2muchstuff

eisenbricher said:


> Of course it is. Just that ED10 is a step up in KZ's bass department and covers all aspects of DT3 and excelling at all. ED10 is also lightweight, fits very well and super comfortable. And of course much sturdier build. DT3 is a blast from the past


 
 Agree, except that I cannot get the fit right with the ED10.  The KZ blue whirlwinds that work well on other IEMs do not keep the ED10 in place for me if I move around.  Now using some slight olive shaped medium length smaller bore tips that may be working out better.  The ED10 sound is superior to dt3 when they stay in place.  My ear shape may not the like short length of the ED10.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## magewick

Is there a difference in sound quality between ED10 with and without a microphone?


----------



## CoiL

If You don`t use mic and control buttons then it is usually recommended to get without version due to less affect on SQ.
 For EDM You should go with ED10 with eyes closed like Eisen said. ATE is more neutral sided with smooth & non-fatiguing presentation.


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> If You don`t use mic and control buttons then it is usually recommended to get without version due to less affect on SQ.
> For EDM You should go with ED10 with eyes closed like Eisen said. ATE is more neutral sided with smooth & non-fatiguing presentation.


 

 Been waiting for this one to come up, what specifically do you find the mic controls do to the SQ on the KZ product range? I ask because I did not by any of them in both options it was either w/mic or without!


----------



## TwinACStacks

r2muchstuff said:


> Agree, except that I cannot get the fit right with the ED10.  The KZ blue whirlwinds that work well on other IEMs do not keep the ED10 in place for me if I move around.  Now using some slight olive shaped medium length smaller bore tips that may be working out better.  The ED10 sound is superior to dt3 when they stay in place.  My ear shape may not the like short length of the ED10.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 






 Throw the Large Black small bore Generic tip that come with most of the KZ's Or RUN to Radio Shack and Get a Pair of Auvio wide Bores or get some wide bores from Sennheiser. They ALL work well with the ED10s.
  
 Oh, and just because they are small DON'T try and insert them WAY deep. It kills the sound. Just comfortable.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

Any one for a Road Trip? Damn her hide, the Mrs. swiped the ED9 and EDSE:
  











 TWIN


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> Any one for a Road Trip? Damn her hide, the Mrs. swiped the ED9 and EDSE:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Dang Twin, you got it as bad as I do
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> So far I have read rather opposite about ED10 - being little "bass oriented", bass bleeds littlebit into mids, rather V-shaped signature not balanced
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Coil, I know I get enthusiastic. I agree with Bass oriented yada, yada---On first impression. Now, I know you don't buy the BURN IN stuff, but I got to tell you honestly, they literally transformed. It is NOT Brain BURN at 50 Hour listening intervals. Not exactly Bass heavy although that BASS is part of the KZ Sig--Lots of Bass. It just GOT TIGHT, NO BLEED. I have no idea how, but it did. Now I'm not saying It will replace My Trinities or Titans But it SURELY is in their Class and It makes a great addition to their palates. I feel the Deltas are warmer, the ED10s are mid-centric with lots of low end too, they excel in the Female vocal range, and the Titans are Revealing and Treble oriented with HUGE soundstage. However they can be fatiguing because of this. They all have Great Detail.
  
 I'm not a reviewer alas these are just my impressions, I lack the descriptive powers to be more precise, (and probably the hearing abilities as well). However of the KZ's, My Faves are the ED10s.
  
*So FAR....*
  
  
 In fact, I pretty much like all the KZ's. Just some more than others.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> Dang Twin, you got it as bad as I do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Yes. I blame COIL and HIsoundFi for this obsession....
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

eisenbricher said:


> Seriously, close your eyes and get ED10. I'm fellow EDM lover and ED10 are best match for the genre. Isolation is not the best but certainly better than ED9. Deep, strong bass? Check.


 





 They Particularly Excel at Uplifting, Progressive Female Vocal Trance Music, FWIW.
  
 Find a Copy of Molly Bancroft doing "Silence" or "Timebomb" or Ai Takekawa Doing "Beyond the Moon" (either original or mix versions) and be prepared to be blown away by the ED10s.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > If You don`t use mic and control buttons then it is usually recommended to get without version due to less affect on SQ.
> ...


 
 First, let me point out word pair "usually recommended". It may be one of those audio myths but theoretically, extra connections + buttons/mic schematic may increase cable impedance and thus affect SQ. I also don`t have any IEM`s in both configurations but I prefer without mic version because I just don`t use it and less connection/solder points makes cable more durable.
 For example, believe it or not, one of my Piston2`s (original!) broke from the mic connection point. Also, personally I do not like any extra "thingy" hanging on the cable, even tiny ATE cable weights annoy me sometime and I see not much point in them. Well, I`ll change that cable anyway soon.


----------



## Trapok

magewick said:


> Thanks mate, I'm going for it. Which seller do you prefer, I'm buying on Aliexpress.


 
  
 Here and fast delivery(at least for France)
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/1825606_32373336369.html


----------



## EISENbricher

twinacstacks said:


> Any one for a Road Trip? Damn her hide, the Mrs. swiped the ED9 and EDSE:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 Wow man, I call it KZgasm. I should post a pic of my collection. I'll do it soon when I clean my small room, lol.
  


twinacstacks said:


> They Particularly Excel at Uplifting, Progressive Female Vocal Trance Music, FWIW.
> 
> Find a Copy of doing "Silence" or "Timebomb" or Ai Takekawa Doing "Beyond the Moon" (either original or mix versions) and be prepared to be blown away by the ED10s.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeap, the vocals aren't forward though. Vocals are very little laid back and spacey. But that's exactly what I ask for Trance! Yup, I just listened to the songs you've listed and all sound fantastic. 
  
 Give a try to this : at least listen to the first song : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzeTU7guIWo  This one highlight fluid and good quality bass of ED10, simultaneously displaying very good details in the Highs department.
  
  


magewick said:


> Is there a difference in sound quality between ED10 with and without a microphone?


 
 No difference in sound quality because essentially it's the same driver. But, durability and compatibility are two issues that might pop up. Durability, because of simple rule. More joints, more chances of failing. Compatibility mainly because of different 4-pin connector standards. I'd say go for mic version only if you must. Anyways it doesn't even offer volume or other keys. Just one answer key.
  


r2muchstuff said:


> Agree, except that I cannot get the fit right with the ED10.  The KZ blue whirlwinds that work well on other IEMs do not keep the ED10 in place for me if I move around.  Now using some slight olive shaped medium length smaller bore tips that may be working out better.  The ED10 sound is superior to dt3 when they stay in place.  My ear shape may not the like short length of the ED10.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 
 Haha no worries friend, no need to write YMMV every time. There's difference in everyone's ear canals, the size and shape.
  


magewick said:


> Thanks mate, I'm going for it. Which seller do you prefer, I'm buying on Aliexpress.


 
 This is the manufacturer's own store : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED10-Heavy-Bass-Nose-Noise-Isolating-Stereo-Headphones-In-Ear-earphone-with-Microphone/32382023764.html
  
 And they have excellent customer support.


----------



## EISENbricher

Wow... following is a direct copy from KZ's company profile on AliExpress. I don't know whether this is true story of their founder or not, but surely they are operating on this motto today!
  


> One day Jack friend asked if he could buy a better headphone. Jack said his headphone is good enough. Is it cold be better? His friend said. It's not worth, on the other hand, I'm poor. Jack said with a sigh.
> Jack love music,had been in a band.But didn't care about the "untrue"sound from headphone. Afterwards, he inadvertently heard the sound by the "better" headphone of his friend. That's amazing! It seems that he listen the familiar song for the first time. Girl's High Audiovisual ethereal sky beautiful melodious birds. Penetrates the soul voice, as if the singer is in the ear to talk.
> Jack fell in love with this fantastic experience. Better will cost to much, but could open a different world. At first he repair headphones, then sales headphones.
> Once in a exhibition, Jack finally meet the boss of the "better" headphone. He was so excited, and told his story, give some suggest of their headphone. He never thought the boss ignored him, even said Jack can't understand the headphones.He never thought they disrespect HiFi fans.
> ...


----------



## CoiL

trapok said:


> magewick said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks mate, I'm going for it. Which seller do you prefer, I'm buying on Aliexpress.
> ...


 
 Bought mine also from that seller. Will inform how it goes. I`m also located in EU and it should be shipped out by now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Wow... following is a direct copy from KZ's company profile on AliExpress. I don't know whether this is true story of their founder or not, but surely they are operating on this motto today!




That's a good story. Hope its true, but regardless I fully back KZ stuff. Cannot wait for their next evolution, starting with the ZN1.


----------



## SSSN

Is there any KZ model which has really good isolation? The ATE's isolation is mediocre at best especially since it only sounds truly great with silicone tips.


----------



## Podster

sssn said:


> Is there any KZ model which has really good isolation? The ATE's isolation is mediocre at best especially since it only sounds truly great with silicone tips.


 

 For me this is tip dependent but every ear canal is different. I experiment with tips on all my iem's. I have had success with the blue KZ swirls on my ED9's & 10's


----------



## Trapok

coil said:


> Bought mine also from that seller. Will inform how it goes. I`m also located in EU and it should be shipped out by now.


 

 And now for 8$ really a bargain.
 Mine ordered on Jul. 04 2015, received on 27 of July


----------



## EISENbricher

sssn said:


> Is there any KZ model which has really good isolation? The ATE's isolation is mediocre at best especially since it only sounds truly great with silicone tips.


 
 ED8m and ED3 have better isolation among the KZs I own. Also among the latest 3 releases ED10 has best isolation.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Also among the latest 3 releases ED10 has best isolation.


 
 That`s good to hear. I`m probably going to use them while working with machines. Though, I wish to do 2 different modifications to ATE`s, one fully closed re-shelling and one open-back.
 Closed re-shelled ATE isolation could become very good probably.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> That`s good to hear. I`m probably going to use them while working with machines. Though, I wish to do 2 different modifications to ATE`s, one fully closed re-shelling and one open-back.
> Closed re-shelled ATE isolation could become very good probably.


 
 It's just comparatively better though, not the best among all the IEMs I own. I hope you find it usable while working with machines.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Give a try to this : at least listen to the first song : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzeTU7guIWo  This one highlight fluid and good quality bass of ED10, simultaneously displaying very good details in the Highs department.
  
 EISEN, HEY I LIKE that. As soon as I get home tomorrow morning after work, I'm going to see if there is a 320 version then Change it to MP3 with Freemake boom and load it onto my X3ii.
  
 Yes I agree, the Vocals aren't particularly forward, it's a VERY balanced presentation of all frequencies on the ED10. But they are SO refined and just perfect, especially the GURLZ.....
  
 Thanx, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

twinacstacks said:


> *IT IS DONE*. Just ordered another pair of ED10 from the same seller as my first pair for a whopping $8.34 USD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I also ordered my 2nd pair...they sound great and just in case they fail I'd like to know I have another and for $8.46 (got mine from Shenzhen integrity electronics) it seems like a no brainer!
 The ED9 is also sounding excellent! What a turnaround, the ED9 sounded really bad brand new but 3 days of burn-in and I'm blown away...it's more detail\treble oriented but man I just can listen to it with zero fatigue. The ED10 may not be as detailed and its wheelhouse is great low end presentation but it also sounds nice across the board. Still evaluating them but I'm impressed.
 Thank God my Capella amp has a gain knob! Turning the gain up even slightly causes hiss. I'm at like 7:00oclock and if I use my Bushmaster DAC's headphone out the volume is about the same 7:00 oclock! I guess IEM's need very little power.


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> The ED9 is also sounding excellent! What a turnaround, the ED9 sounded really bad brand new but 3 days of burn-in and I'm blown away...it's more detail\treble oriented but man I just can listen to it with zero fatigue.


 
 Which screw-in barrel gold or brass ?


----------



## CADCAM

lohb said:


> Which screw-in barrel gold or brass ?


 

 I am using the dull brass nozzles and I also switched to the standard small tips that came with them. I was originally using the tips they shipped with the more visible red insert.
 I also found a tiny paper looking filter inside one of the nozzles and re-positioned it so it was lying flat over the vent hole like the other was.


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> I am using the dull brass nozzles and I also switched to the standard small tips that came with them. I was originally using the tips they shipped with the more visible red insert.
> I also found a tiny paper looking filter inside one of the nozzles and re-positioned it so it was lying flat over the vent hole like the other was.


 

 Weird, I found the brass nozzle bass light and treble bright.


----------



## Tobias89

Sorry guys. I've recently been interested in KZ. Got a couple of questions though. 
  
 Which of these stores (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/1358152.html) and (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1246446) are the original one on aliexpress?
  
 Also, on both stores, I'm seeing afew repeated listings, with slightly different titles. Are they different or the same?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Ruben123

lohb said:


> Weird, I found the brass nozzle bass light and treble bright.




If you close the vents like cadcam says (with a tooth stick for instance), the ed9s go from bright to balanced with a nice low end.


----------



## EISENbricher

tobias89 said:


> Sorry guys. I've recently been interested in KZ. Got a couple of questions though.
> 
> Which of these stores (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/1358152.html) and (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1246446) are the original one on aliexpress?
> 
> ...



the first link.That's KZs own store.


----------



## CoiL

lohb said:


> cadcam said:
> 
> 
> > I am using the dull brass nozzles and I also switched to the standard small tips that came with them. I was originally using the tips they shipped with the more visible red insert.
> ...


 
 Then experiment with different filter materials inside and in different location inside brass nozzles. Proper amount and type of foam (or other material) can make brass nozzles very good sounding by smoothing littlebit highs and if wanted raise also bass quantity. I`m using just a tad foam inside brass nozzles taken from P2, just enough to smooth out harhness of highs but leave bass basically same.


----------



## SSSN

Does the KZ ATE really sound similiar to the ATH-IM50? I really love the ATE's sound, but the build quality is iffy. The left grill of my unit is stamped in further than on the right side and the blue ring around the cable entry is peeling off too.


----------



## CoiL

According to what I`ve read from users they are pretty similar sounding. Don`t have IM50 myself so can`t comment further.
 Tip: just remove those grills. You`ll get tinybit more details and clarity. I`m using my ATE already quite long time without grills.
 Another thing to do if You really like them is to change cable and remove those quite ugly cable inserts.
 Highly recommend this cable: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Semi-Finished-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-IE800-repair-upgrade-LBH1026/2044467318.html
 And here are some more options: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5160#post_11759274


----------



## B9Scrambler

Was going to wait for my shootout to post more ED10 thoughts, but I can't wait that long 

They are an in-ear headphone, with a cable and everything. They play music and other sounds to boot. Such thing! Much value! 

(Sarcasm overload)

On a less useless note, these things aren't quite up to the level of the Titan 1, but they're certainly nipping at their heels and make for just as entertaining a listen. Not bad for ~10 bucks.



They pair very well with these ancient Skullcandy Smoking' Buds tips


----------



## Richsvt

Well, finished some sessions with all that I have. My least favorite is the GR. Not really liking its air and soundstage. Both feel compressed. The highs were weak. Not veiled or muffled, just not really apparent. I did not like the ED9 as much as I thought I would initially. I tried different tips and barrels but still felt it was fatiguing. Then I changed to the red barrel that came with the GR. Wow, what difference. Sub-bass still a little lacking but the mid-bass and mids were fantastic. The highs still seemed a little too sharply rolled off, but they were ok. The red barrel on the GR did not bring that kind of change.

I love the sound on the ED10. Just a great presentation on all fronts. The comfort and lightness are simply great. Could wear for hours. My favaroite has got to be the ATE. Takes what the 10 gives and pushes it a little further. Comfort was better than the 10. I really like the highs, not too sharp but a nice transition from the mids. Air and soundstage seem more open and wide. 

My take on these...all have their place. I now have some really great tools that I can grab dependent in my mood and genre choice. The GRs will do down and dirty Classic rock well. The ED9 will do rock and jazz nicely. The ED10 seem well suited for everything but classical and folk are well presented. The ATE will be my 'out-the-door-gotta-run-take-something-that-can-handle-it-all' IEM.

I ran all these through my 100ii, Jr, and iPod Classic. Mostly ALAC, FLAC running from 16/44 to 24/192.
For what I paid for 4 of these, I feel like I won. There's no bad choice, just some rise above the others. Thank you to all on this sub-forum. Great way to get some quality sound for cheap money...


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Was going to wait for my shootout to post more ED10 thoughts, but I can't wait that long
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's whut I said!!! They are definitely in their Class though, For $10!!!!
  
 (There's not much going to touch the Deltas for a while)
  
 It just keeps getting better.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

My Fave KZs:       (so far)
  
 #1 ED10
 #2 (Tie) ATE & EDSE
 #3 ANV   (only in 3rd place because for me it is quite uncomfortable to wear for any length of time)
  
 That's all I need for Rotation with the Deltas and Titans
  








 TWIN


----------



## bhazard

The KZ ZN1 on Amazon looks fantastic.
  
 Dual Amp + DSP + Dual Driver for $50. Pretty sweet. I'm debating if I should pull the trigger since I have the Geek V2+ Infinity in transit. The V2+ makes it redundant.


----------



## CADCAM

The Kz ED9 has got to be the the Cinderella story of my short IEM journey! When I first heard it it sounded like throwing sheets of glass against a wall as you fried bacon in the background...now I can't stop listening to it. First IEM where I put a disc on and listen to the entire thing without ever thinking of changing discs or even skipping tracks. That to me is perhaps the most important attribute for a piece of gear to have...make it sound so good you just listen.


----------



## theuprising

cadcam said:


> The Kz ED9 has got to be the the Cinderella story of my short IEM journey! When I first heard it is sounded like throwing sheets of glass against a wall as you fried bacon in the background...now I can't stop listening to it. First IEM where I put a disc on and listen to the entire thing without ever thinking of changing discs or even skipping tracks. That to me is perhaps the most important attribute for a piece of gear to have...make it sound so good you just listen.


 

 Did you try using the bronze filter yet.. I would take tons of ~10-15 dollar iems over the gold filter ED9.


----------



## Lohb

bhazard said:


> The KZ ZN1 on Amazon looks fantastic.
> 
> Dual Amp + DSP + Dual Driver for $50. Pretty sweet. I'm debating if I should pull the trigger since I have the Geek V2+ Infinity in transit. The V2+ makes it redundant.


 

 If that dangly cable amp has no clip on the back, it will tug on the earphones.


----------



## Lohb

theuprising said:


> Did you try using the bronze filter yet.. I would take tons of ~10-15 dollar iems over the gold filter ED9.


 

 Gold filter amped or direct off a decent source..honestly it is pretty damn great for the price. I think you're over-exaggerating.
  
 What is your source equipment/music preference and files you mainly use FLAC/Mp3 bit-rate etc ? Nothing in your profile to back-up such blanket statements.
  
 If I run it off my phone for instance, (my lowest SQ device) the mids are not that prominent and the separation spatial positioning not that great. I get that instantly.
  
 Run off my Macbook Air with Audirvana + BIG jump up in above aspects...then amped off C5 connected to Air...scaling up yet gain, not just purely loudness. This is just a super basic Cirrus DAC chip in the Air as my HRT microStreamer is gone at the moment so I cannot add that in the chain.
 With the HRT on my other headphones, there was a much better presentation on planars vs in the in-built basic chip on the Air.
 Therefore, I imagine just on some entry-level great equipment - HRT microstreamer + Cayin C5 this set will shift up another level in quality even on gold barrel filter. Mids anything but flat recessed on gold barrel.
 I do not have access to the brass barrel just now, but I will be testing out the modded way as others suggested vs the gold barrel filter.
  
 EDIT : So the ED9/ED10/ATE are all the latest generation of the KZ line and no other new models (except ZN1) ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

theuprising said:


> Did you try using the bronze filter yet.. I would take tons of ~10-15 dollar iems over the gold filter ED9.




I really don't get the appeal of the bronze filter. Well, I get it, I just don't enjoy it myself, haha. Too dry and brittle. Lacks the smooth and organic feel of the gold filter. To each their own (and a KZ product for every sound preference!!)


----------



## Lohb

b9scrambler said:


> I really don't get the appeal of the bronze filter. Well, I get it, I just don't enjoy it myself, haha. Too dry and brittle. Lacks the smooth and organic feel of the gold filter. To each their own (and a KZ product for every sound preference!!)


 

 +++1.
  
 I think a couple of people are using modified bronze nozzles and getting better than stock bronze SQ.


----------



## Ruben123

Try closing the vents, makes a big difference really.


----------



## HawkEye0701

ED8-M or the ED Special edition? I like the fun sound Xiaomi Piston 2 offered. Please help me. Thanks!
  
 P.S I know this has been answered like a 100 times but I just can't search all the pages. Thanks again!


----------



## EISENbricher

hawkeye0701 said:


> ED8-M or the ED Special edition? I like the fun sound Xiaomi Piston 2 offered. Please help me. Thanks!
> 
> P.S I know this has been answered like a 100 times but I just can't search all the pages. Thanks again!


 
 For fun, bass enhanced sound like Piston 2 go for ED10.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Try closing the vents, makes a big difference really.




Thanks. I have closed the vents, and foam modded them (among other mod attempts). My favorite mod with the brass tips is still the "blue mod" I posted a while back; blue porous medical foam and tips from the Hauwei Honor, with the filters peeled back. Soundstage is huge.


----------



## CoiL

> Originally Posted by *Lohb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Mids anything but flat recessed on gold barrel.


 
 It depends on many different things... source gear match, music quality, personal taste, hearing etc.
 With both, my desk and portable rig, I find gold nozzles rather with V-shaped sound signature and I do think mids are neutral but somewhat laid-back by elevated bass & highs. With some music maybe even littlebit recessed. Just my subjective input about it
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


b9scrambler said:


> theuprising said:
> 
> 
> > Did you try using the bronze filter yet.. I would take tons of ~10-15 dollar iems over the gold filter ED9.
> ...


 
 Yes, each according to his own preference. You just aren`t not so much into neutral sound and that`s totally OK! 
  


hawkeye0701 said:


> ED8-M or the ED Special edition? I like the fun sound Xiaomi Piston 2 offered. Please help me. Thanks!


 
 I wouldn`t get EDSE if You really like P2 sound. I think ED10 is best bet for You - gives SQ jump over P2 but retains the "fun" sound.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> You just aren`t not so much into neutral sound and that`s totally ok.




That's not entirely accurate. The ANV, Micro Ring, and ED3 are among my favorite iems, and those are all approaching neutral. Same with my AKG K553. I just don't like how the brass filters on the ED9 present that neutralish sound.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Guys, everyone hears things DIFFERENTLY. We will never completely agree. For example, I would describe the Micro Ring, as Bass- Heavy. I don't hear it as neutral. OTOH, I DO hear the ANV as probably being the most Neutral KZ in my collection.
  








 TWIN


----------



## lesp4ul

This setup is now my favorite, mostly for jazz, vocals, and a little of deep house


----------



## B9Scrambler

Shmexy!!


----------



## CADCAM

theuprising said:


> Did you try using the bronze filter yet.. I would take tons of ~10-15 dollar iems over the gold filter ED9.


 

 Yes using bronze\brass\dull nozzles, filters in place and regular small tips.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The great mobile duo.


----------



## ayaflo

Ordered a KZ ATE out of impulse, black and no-mic. Fan of transparent sound but then decided to try something different.
  
 Hope it lives upto MH1c standards as far as VFM concerned. Liked the Piston 2.1 but the vocals were thin and devoid of any texture. Traded my Titan 1 because I never liked it except for its transient response and mid-bass. The Titanium injection for some reason provides for a very artificial sound.
  
 Trust KZ ATE will fill the gap.


----------



## Shadowsora

I was trying to keep away from this thread due to the situations in Greece, oh damnit I checked and saw ED10 getting highly praised.
 That was a critical hit, going to cry in a corner(xD).


----------



## Trapok

eisenbricher said:


> For fun, bass enhanced sound like Piston 2 go for ED10.


 

 +1


----------



## theuprising

How does the ED10 compare to the ATE/ed9?
  
 ATE is said to be less detailed than the ED9, but have better bass and soundstage, how does the ED10 compare to that? Because according to one guy who talked to the people at KZ, they said the ED10 wasn't made to be the best sounding model, only a consumer friendly sound with a mic.


----------



## TwinACStacks

theuprising said:


> How does the ED10 compare to the ATE/ed9?
> 
> ATE is said to be less detailed than the ED9, but have better bass and soundstage, how does the ED10 compare to that? Because according to one guy who talked to the people at KZ, they said the ED10 wasn't made to be the best sounding model, only a consumer friendly sound with a mic.


 






 Maybe it's GREAT sound is by accident?
  








 TWIN


----------



## 1clearhead

theuprising said:


> How does the ED10 compare to the ATE/ed9?
> 
> ATE is said to be less detailed than the ED9, but have better bass and soundstage, how does the ED10 compare to that? Because according to one guy who talked to the people at KZ, they said the ED10 wasn't made to be the best sounding model, only a consumer friendly sound with a mic.


 

 Maybe it's not in there best interest to say that......they just want everybody to comeback to shop for more KZzzzzzz!
  
 PS. It's hard to wake-up from this dream because they actually got us in a trance!


----------



## TwinACStacks

I don't quite understand this BASS reference to the ED10s. Yes, when I first got them the Bass was Heavy and Bloated. With 200 Hours burn in on them , they have Ample Bass but it is Fast, tight and controlled. At least it is on mine with Auvio Hybrids on it.
  








 TWIN


----------



## twister6

This is a review of KZ ED10 IEMs.
  
 To complete the series of my KZ "giant killer" reviews, I'm going to look closer into their ED10 IEM model I received from Zhengnan store (one of KZ official resellers on Amazon).  Joining an impressive line up of EDSE, ED9, and ATE, Knowledge Zenith (KZ) continuous with ED10 offering a unique design, a great build quality, and a decent sound signature without too much overlap with other models.  But what impresses me the most is the fact that you can buy all 4 models and still pay less than a single pair of IEMs with sub-par sound quality.  That is a reason I refer to these KZ models as "giant killers" and here is more specific info about ED10.
  
 ED10 arrived in a shield-shaped box like ATE black edition, and it was a nice and a compact packaging with a secure storage for IEM and accessories.  At the same time even so packaging box looks cool, it doesn't make a convenient storage case, so perhaps in the future KZ can redesign it considering they don't provide anything for storage as part of the accessories package.  The only thing you get is 3 sets of eartips, M/L with small bore opening, and a large hybrid eartip with a blue core.  That one was actually my favorite tip since it offered the best fitment due to its springy cap, and wide bore opening worked quite well to tame down the low end and open up higher frequencies (more about it later).
  
_Unboxing and accessories._
  
   
  
   
  

  
 For those familiar with other previously mentioned KZ models, the cable design is not going to be a surprise.  You are looking at the same right-angle 3.5mm gold plated plug with an excellent strain relief.  Cable jacket has a translucent design where you can easily see bi-color wires, and it's soft, a bit rubbery, and flexible.  Y-splitter is compact, rubbery, and has great strain relief on all 3 sides.  Featured in-line universal remote with mic and a single button play/pause/call operation was slightly different from previous models, having a bright red button to see it easier, and it also has a good strain relief.
  
 Attachment to the shell is secure and with a good strain relief as well.  Considering how KZ sometime likes to "copy" some other popular designs, here I couldn't help but notice a strong resemblance with Ostry KC06x series.  Obviously, we are not dealing with a titanium shell, but the finish and even the shape from the nozzle side has a lot of resemblance to Ostrys.  The insertion is not too deep, shells don't stick out too much, and they are very comfortable with both wire down or wire up fitment, even to the point where I can fall asleep on a pillow while wearing these.  Also, microphonics effect was not that bad.
  
 With two vents, one by the base of the nozzle and another one toward the back of the shell, you will not have to worry about driver flex, but at the same time isolation was not bad either.  I don't know exactly what material it was made out of, but I really like the smooth finish of ED10.  My only gripe was cursive handwriting font used on each shell to spell out Left and Right instead of a more clear and easier to read L/R letter marking.  Other than that, I really like the design and the fitment.
  
_Design details._
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
   
  

  
_Wire up/down fitment._
  
   
  
  
 When it comes to a sound signature, KZ ED10 has a v-shaped smooth clear sound with an enhanced bass (strong sub-bass and mid-bass region).  Their soundstage has an average width and above average depth.
  
 In more details, low end has a nice deep rounded sub-bass and fast punchy mid-bass.  The balance between  sub- and mid- is skewed a little more toward sub-bass, but it's still under control without muddying a sound.  There is a little bit of mid-bass spillage into the lower mids but it's not excessive and only adds to the warmth of a sound.
  
 Lower mids are warm and smooth with a nice body, upper mids are clear and smooth, but not super detailed.  Upper mids are a little recessed, but not hidden too far behind bass and treble.  Vocals sound warm and organic.
  
 Treble has a polite quantity, smooth, not too crisp or harsh, definitely non-fatigue and great for extended listening.
  
 Keeping it in a family, here is how EDSE, ED9, and ATE compare in sound to ED10.
  

  
  
_KZ ED10 vs ATE_: ATE has nearly a similar sound minus bass-boost (less sub-bass and not as fast mid-bass punch).  At the same time, ED10 is a touch brighter in upper mids/treble which slightly improves resolution of a sound.
  
_KZ ED10 vs ED9_:  ED9 has less sub-bass, less mid-bass, thinner lower mids, brighter more detailed upper mids, and a better treble extension.  In a contrast, ED10 is warmer, smoother, has more body, and sounds bassier, while ED9 is more revealing.
  
_KZ ED10 vs EDSE_:  EDSE has less sub-bass and mid-bass, a bit thinner lower mids, and thinner upper mids, better treble extension, and also sounds more crispier/brighter.
  
 In comparison to a few other IEMs:
  
_KZ ED10 vs KC06A_:  KC06A has less sub-bass, stronger mid-bass (slightly more quantity), thinner lower mids, more upfront upper mids (brighter and perhaps a little harsher), better treble extension (brighter, crispier).
  
_KZ ED10 vs VSD3_:  VSD3 has a little less sub-bass, similar mid-bass, similar lower mids, brighter/harsher more upfront upper mids, better treble extension with a higher quantity (brighter, crispier).
  
*Conclusion.*
  
 This is another great KZ "budget" release which doesn't sound, look, or feel like a budget IEM.  You will get a bigger low end impact, in both sub- and mid-bass regions, and that's probably going to be a deciding factor if this sound signature is your cup of tea, versus something more neutral and analytical.  Considering the price of these KZ headphones, sometime it makes sense to get different models to cover your various sound sig preferences, and then decide later what you are in a mood for or what would fit better your current listening repertoire.


----------



## EISENbricher

Great review, twister. Actually I was about to ask you for review of ED10,but was pleasantly surprised too see it here. 

From my perspective I find the description in sync with my findings. Good work.


----------



## Lohb

OK, I'm going to give the brass nozzle mod a shot (low density sponge sliver of silverstone damping sponge and maybe port sealing) , *but does anyone know why you should close the small port * ? Whydodat ?
 As usually with for example, a Fostex planar headphone modification, the  more or bigger the BASS PORT holes, the more the low-end shifts up in quantity.Yet the brass nozzle was bass light on my fast first impression in stock config...


----------



## CoiL

Closing breathing holes usually tightens up bass and percussion punch and raises quantity. My recommendation is to experiment with different amount and type of foam(or other material) and if it still won`t get "right", then try closing ports. But closing ports can cause driver flex when inserting them in ear.


----------



## Trapok

Thx twister,
 this review really help for people who wonder why it's a must have in-ear for 8$
 Anyway,Great review twister6,


----------



## Lohb

coil said:


> Closing breathing holes usually tightens up bass and percussion punch and raises quantity. My recommendation is to experiment with different amount and type of foam(or other material) and if it still won`t get "right", then try closing ports. But closing ports can cause driver flex when inserting them in ear.


 

 Thanks, think I'm going to give ATE a second shot as well. 3 sets (ED9/ED10/ATE) for under $50.


----------



## CoiL

Imho, with my gear and sound preference, ATE doesn`t need closing ports and it causes driver flex also (if fully closed). Though it makes bass and percussion very punchy and present and I can imagine many loving that configuration. My ATE mod-preference is removed nozzle grills + open back grill mod - makes it littlebit more detailed, clear and spacious. But I also think that translucent version of ATE sounds great out of the box and doesn`t have littlebit "hollowness" like silver version. Don`t know if it might be driver production quality difference or housing plastic material difference but my translucent ATE sounded tad better than silver ones.


----------



## Trapok

lohb said:


> Thanks, think I'm going to give ATE a second shot as well. 3 sets (ED9/ED10/ATE) for* under $50*.


 

 Under 30$(with 20$ you can buy 2 other replacements)


----------



## SSSN

Ordered a KZ ED10 and a spare ATE. The ATE just sounds too good, so I want a spare for my current one. And the ED10 is supposed to sound similar.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Awesome review Twister  ED10 is a great addition to the KZ lineup.


----------



## SSSN

Does the ED10 work with foam tips or they kill the sound as they do on the ATE?


----------



## B9Scrambler

sssn said:


> Does the ED10 work with foam tips or they kill the sound as they do on the ATE?




I tried them out with the foams that came with the UE600. Worked pretty well. Not as large a change in sound as I expected.


----------



## SSSN

Good, maybe their isolation might prove sufficient for commuting then. The ATE do not isolate well enough for that, especially since they need airy silicone. I had some Vsonic foamies lying around and they sound really awful with them.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I absolutely detest the Vsonic foams I have. They expand so quickly. Haven't ever once gotten a seal, lol. 

But ya, with the UE600 foams the isolation is good. I would be surprised if it wasn't enough for commuting.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Nice review Twister. You hear basically what I'm hearing out of the ED10s. I wish I had your descriptive powers. What changes with burn in hours, is that the Bass tightens up more, the  Sub / Mid. bleed all but disappears, and the High Mids become a little more pronounced, especially female Vocals. Yep. I'm guessing the pair you reviewed didn't have 200 hours on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  SO FAR to date, these have rapidly become my faves. Of course I like almost all of the KZ 'phones anyways. Your experience may vary.
  
 They are SO comfortable and easy to fit. BTW: I wear them down, if the Cable is entering the housing towards the front, It's oriented properly L/R.
  
 I now have about 250 hours on them and I notice no more change, but of course I'm listening to them much more than every 50 Hours.
  








 TWIN


----------



## twister6

I would go as far as even saying that out of all 4, ED10 has the most comfortable fitment for my ears.  With Foam tips, they will help with isolation, but at the expense of rolling off more high frequencies and making bass heavier.  If KZ ever going to make a hybrid design (I assume they don't have one yet, right?), that's going to be one killer budget IEMs.


----------



## B9Scrambler

twister6 said:


> I would go as far as even saying that out of all 4, ED10 has the most comfortable fitment for my ears.  With Foam tips, they will help with isolation, but at the expense of rolling off more high frequencies and making bass heavier.  If KZ ever going to make a hybrid design (I assume they don't have one yet, right?), that's going to be one killer budget IEMs.




I'm not sure if you have any UE mushroom shaped foam tips handy, but if so try those out. Vs. Complys they really don't change the sound much. Maybe that's due to the wide bore and less porous material?


----------



## twister6

b9scrambler said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > I would go as far as even saying that out of all 4, ED10 has the most comfortable fitment for my ears.  With Foam tips, they will help with isolation, but at the expense of rolling off more high frequencies and making bass heavier.  If KZ ever going to make a hybrid design (I assume they don't have one yet, right?), that's going to be one killer budget IEMs.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, in my reference to foamies I meant Complys.  I need to look into my UE600 to see if it comes with any foam tips.  In general, I prefer silicone wide bore


----------



## B9Scrambler

twister6 said:


> Yeah, in my reference to foamies I meant Complys.  I need to look into my UE600 to see if it comes with any foam tips.  In general, I prefer silicone wide bore




Your UE600 should definitely have come a pair of foamies. They're pretty good too  I prefer wide bore silicones as well. The ancient Skullcandy tips I posted an image of them with last page make for an excellent pairing.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I've never been able to get consistantly good results using Complys. I take great care in pushing them back and rolling them, and trying to place them in my ear canals exactly the same way each time, but one time they sound great, the next like crap and muffled. I just don't have the knack. It's easier to use Silicones and hybrids and get the placement right every time.
  
 JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## 1clearhead

twinacstacks said:


> Nice review Twister. You hear basically what I'm hearing out of the ED10s. I wish I had your descriptive powers. What changes with burn in hours, is that the Bass tightens up more, the  Sub / Mid. bleed all but disappears, and the High Mids become a little more pronounced, especially female Vocals. Yep. I'm guessing the pair you reviewed didn't have 200 hours on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## Djinnenjous

Guys, when I listen to my ED9s using the brass filters—and, so far as I can tell, _only _the brass filters—one ear feels sealed much more completely than the other. I think I have a vent blocked on one side because I definitely hear remarkably more bass coming from my left channel than my right (the one that feels more open, lacking any kind of isolation). I've heard recently that this is an issue common to KZ IEMs and I searched this thread for a bit but most or all of the discussion related to the ATE and other models I don't own.

 Can anyone link me to or walk me through the steps I need to take to fix this myself? Or am I better off petitioning my Amazon seller for a warrantied return? Thanks in advance.


----------



## dwayniac

I received the DT5 today and I think it's the best KZ model that I own. The other two being the GR and ED9. 

It's the second best duo driver iem among six that I own. The four behind it are all more expensive. The one it's behind,Core Cool V2, beats only one with better bass.


----------



## CADCAM

Here's my collection so far... all are good some are great! Kz Micro Ring & EDSE on the way.


----------



## Lohb

Tried the brass barrels closed with/without sponge all day yesterday.
 I just don't get that rich tonality with the brass barrels that I get with the gold ones when the mastering on FLAC is spot-on,nor are they v-shaped in my set-up....maybe out a cheaper phone,yes ...going in that direction.
 Either found the brass barrels ragged in upper-end or sterile with my set-up.
 When the gold ones are powered correctly, they sound superb (for the money).
  
 Looking forward to get the ED10s for exercise. Thanks for the tips/advice everyone. Earphones now sorted after a long break from earphones.


----------



## Arsis

lohb said:


> Tried the brass barrels closed with/without sponge all day yesterday.
> I just don't get that rich tonality with the brass barrels that I get with the gold ones when the mastering on FLAC is spot-on,nor are they v-shaped in my set-up....maybe out a cheaper phone,yes ...going in that direction.
> Either found the brass barrels ragged in upper-end or sterile with my set-up.
> When the gold ones are powered correctly, they sound superb (for the money).
> ...


I prefer the gold as well. Most of my stuff is 16/44.1 or 24/96 using a Fiio e10k.


----------



## EISENbricher

Has anybody ordered KZ ZN1 yet? It's already available on Amazon for ~$50, and as per KZ the amazon orders will be delivered at priority compared to AliExpress orders.


----------



## SWLIU

eisenbricher said:


> Has anybody ordered KZ ZN1 yet? It's already available on Amazon for ~$50, and as per KZ the amazon orders will be delivered at priority compared to AliExpress orders.




I got a tracking number for my amazon order two days ago, but no info available for that tracking number yet.


----------



## EISENbricher

swliu said:


> I got a tracking number for my amazon order two days ago, but no info available for that tracking number yet.


 
 Traking numbers usually take some time to start showing information. Good btw, looking forward to see some thoughts on ZN1. It's somthing off the track development from KZ till now.


----------



## leobigfield

eisenbricher said:


> Has anybody ordered KZ ZN1 yet? It's already available on Amazon for ~$50, and as per KZ the amazon orders will be delivered at priority compared to AliExpress orders.


 
  
 If i remember correctly @Hisoundfi ordered them some time ago!


----------



## CADCAM

For everyone's information I purchased the Kz ANV from Swallow(Shenzhen)Electronics Co.,Ltd   http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1413064
 and they sent me the CM9. It's super bassy and doesn't sound anything like the ANV according to what I've been reading on Head-Fi. The seller is saying that the two headphones are the same. 
  
 TwinACStacks has both and has verified they are not the same. Dispute started...lets see where this goes. 
 Too bad as I was really looking forward to hearing the actual ANV.


----------



## CoiL

CAD, You live in UK? I can send You my woodie ANV (over-ear wearing style) if You want but post cost is by You and if You don`t want or like them, then offer them to next head-fi KZ thread member (for posting cost) who wants to try them (within EU).
 I`m so pleased with my ATE and ED9 (and probably yet not arrived ED10 too) that I just don`t use them, so, I was just thinking that why not to send it on "tour" and who likes them can "buy" them for posting cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "Tour" ends when it finds its "lover" (but this must be true love not cheating!).


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> CAD, You live in UK? I can send You my woodie ANV (over-ear wearing style) if You want but post cost is by You and if You don`t want or like them, then offer them to next head-fi KZ thread member (for posting cost) who wants to try them (within EU).
> I`m so pleased with my ATE and ED9 (and probably yet not arrived ED10 too) that I just don`t use them, so, I was just thinking that why not to send it on "tour" and who likes them can "buy" them for posting cost
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks CoiL but am in US. I also am loving my ED9. I tried the gold nozzles again with some air filter foam stuffed in the nozzles but I might have put a smidge too much. I'm back to the dull nozzles but they do sound a bit strident now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How do you run yours?


----------



## guisess93

where can I see the list of all the models of KZ?


----------



## EISENbricher

guisess93 said:


> where can I see the list of all the models of KZ?


 
 Searching on AliExpress would easily show all their available models. There are a few which are listed as KZ, but aren't actually KZ, such as S6, X7 etc.
  
 From my knowledge I can put up following list : 
 A1, R1, R3, R35, RX, DT3, DT5, Micro Ring, CM9, GR, ANV, ED1, ED2, EDSE, ED3, ED8m, ED9, ATE, ED10, ZN1
  
 All these are available on AliExpress.


----------



## CoiL

cadcam said:


> Thanks CoiL but am in US. I also am loving my ED9. I tried the gold nozzles again with some air filter foam stuffed in the nozzles but I might have put a smidge too much. I'm back to the dull nozzles but they do sound a bit strident now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I do like ED9 very much but for my sound preference and gear ATE is littlebit better in soundstage, imaging and separation (especially in width) and also sound more neutral/balanced and natural than ED9 with brass filters (with tinybit foam from P2). ED9 foam-mod takes some hit and miss to get right for personal taste and highs sensitivity.


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> CAD, You live in UK? I can send my woodie ANV (over-ear wearing style) if You anyone wants but post cost is by You member and if You he/she don`t want or like them, then offer them to next head-fi KZ thread member (for posting cost) who wants to try them (*within EU*).
> I`m so pleased with my ATE and ED9 (and probably yet not arrived ED10 too) that I just don`t use them, so, I was just thinking that why not to send it on "tour" and who likes them can "buy" them for posting cost
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That offer still available for KZ "fans"


----------



## HraD2

eisenbricher said:


> From my knowledge I can put up following list :
> A1, R1, R3, R35, RX, DT3, DT5, Micro Ring, CM9, GR, ANV, ED1, ED2, EDSE, ED3, ED8m, ED9, ATE, ED10, ZN1


 
 You forgot DT5 Pole Tone


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> guisess93 said:
> 
> 
> > where can I see the list of all the models of KZ?
> ...


 

 I don`t know if they are misnaming or what but what about C56R, EDR1 ?


----------



## EISENbricher

hrad2 said:


> You forgot DT5 Pole Tone




I've mentioned DT5 there. Pole tone is same one if I'm right. 




coil said:


> I don`t know if they are misnaming or what but what about C56R, EDR1 ?



No idea... I think EDR-1 is relaunch of EDSE.


----------



## Charliemotta

coil said:


> I don`t know if they are misnaming or what but what about C56R, EDR1 ?


 
 Yes C56R, KZ ED1, and KZ R1


----------



## HraD2

DT5 and DT5 Pole Tone, are different, they have different markings and different sound


----------



## TwinACStacks

Hey EISEN!!! I see you have a new ED10 Avatar?
  
 They're pretty damn good for a little POS earphone aren't they? They climbed right to the top of my KZ list for just all around good /comfortable earphones.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Anyone else beside Ruben123 interested trying out my "wood-ANV europe tour"? Asking because then we can maybe plan better route to pass on between members. Those members who really crave unmodded ANV sound can also join to find out how super-light and comfy these IEM`s can actually be (over ear wearing style).
  
 NB! I am in no way part of KZ merchandise/dealer/production or promoting them!
 I am just "throwing out" my wood modded ANV on tour because I do not use them (not that they are bad, they certainly aren`t!) so, that those members in EU who wish to try ANV don`t have to wait so long and can also get improved version of it. But I sincerely ask that only person who really likes ANV *sound* will get it, not only for the looks or comfort!


----------



## dcpmale

Since I'm inexperienced in the burn-in process. I have a question for the experts. Currently my 100 burned in EDSE sounds very good. But, I think there is still some room for improvement. But the source laptop I used for the burn-in process is not with me anymore. Also, I used Jlab burn in file, sine log and pink noise audio files for the previous burn-in. If I use a new laptop as source and add in white noise and sine arith file to the above list, is there any chance that the sound of my EDSE will get worse? or is it only improve?


----------



## joemama

eisenbricher said:


> Searching on AliExpress would easily show all their available models. There are a few which are listed as KZ, but aren't actually KZ, such as S6, X7 etc.
> 
> From my knowledge I can put up following list :
> A1, R1, R3, R35, RX, DT3, DT5, Micro Ring, CM9, GR, ANV, ED1, ED2, EDSE, ED3, ED8m, ED9, ATE, ED10, ZN1
> ...


 

 Don't forget the ES "the Acme"


----------



## mebaali

joemama said:


> Don't forget the ES "the Acme"


 
 It was my favt KZ IEM for a long time till ATE came


----------



## CoiL

Mebaali, can You comment something about Panasonic RPHJE180 vs. ATE ?


----------



## mebaali

@Coil - My Impressions are pretty much the same as it was earlier. 
  
 HJE180 provides me the best fit among all IEMs I have tried so far, these are very small in size with a uniquely shaped body and nozzle that fits perfectly for my ear canal. SQ wise i find these to be very lively sounding phones. First thing I noticed using these were the presence of sparkle in the treble region (which some user may find to be too bright in their first listen) along with slightly forwarded but natural sounding vocals. I also like the sub-bass response (best i have listened among the IEMs that I own) coming from Panas more so than ATE's mid-bass centric sound. As I have mentioned in my earlier impression, HJE180 is very unforgiving against poorly mastered/recorded tracks with treble peaks whereas ATE is more forgiving in this aspect. 
  
 Among KZ IEMs, ATE is still my favt. These gives me the most soothing sound experience for most my music interests (except for the not so great fit) but since getting RPHJE180 a week back, I haven't been listening to KZ IEMs much.
  
 Sources I had used in the last week or so are (mainly) Fiio X1 + NX1 using mixture of genres from Tamil film OST to Post-Rock to Synth Pop with MP3/M4A tracks of 320/256 kbps respectively.
  
  
  
 FWIW, even the Panasonic's lesser version RPHJE125 is pretty decent sounding for the money I had paid (3 US$)


----------



## EISENbricher

joemama said:


> Don't forget the ES "the Acme"


 
 Oh yeah... need to add ES too. Slipped from my mind. 
  


twinacstacks said:


> Hey EISEN!!! I see you have a new ED10 Avatar?
> 
> They're pretty damn good for a little POS earphone aren't they? They climbed right to the top of my KZ list for just all around good /comfortable earphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeap, currently it's my most fav IEM! Pretty darn good for sure. Comfort is so good as well. I keep wearing those for about 8-9 hrs per day... lol.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Can anyone do a breif comparison of any kz earphones they own to the Sennheiser CX300iis? Mainly where bass volume and extension is concerned?


----------



## EISENbricher

chief stringer said:


> Can anyone do a breif comparison of any kz earphones they own to the Sennheiser CX300iis? Mainly where bass volume and extension is concerned?


 
 Had a CX300ii. Even EDSE is better than it. Recent KZ releases are way better. I'd not go into technicality, but just that CX300ii was an OK iem in its period. It's already outdated now.


----------



## CoiL

Don`t know if I tried ii version or not but got some listen from workmate and they are ok sounding but I agree with Eisen - they are outdated (like Piston2) by recent KZ IEMs (ED9, ED10, ATE).


----------



## TwinACStacks

Hey EISEN. I just ordered a Few more earphones from China, (8 to be exact, but 2 are replacements going to my wife--an EDSE and a ED10), A couple of B/As, a Hybrid and several Single/Dual Dynamics. Should be interesting. I FINALLY ordered a Carbo Tenore as well from Japan. I heard nothing but raves on these for quite a while so I thought I would check out the Hype. WHILE I was checking out the Different Zero Audio models I found THESE, (Apparently their new Single Balanced Armature). A little more pricey but I'll wait. What say you?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZERO-AUDIO-ZH-BX510-CS-CARBO-SINGOLO-In-Ear-Headphones-New-F-S-From-Japan-/261991953145?hash=item3cffeff2f9
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

dcpmale said:


> Since I'm inexperienced in the burn-in process. I have a question for the experts. Currently my 100 burned in EDSE sounds very good. But, I think there is still some room for improvement. But the source laptop I used for the burn-in process is not with me anymore. Also, I used Jlab burn in file, sine log and pink noise audio files for the previous burn-in. If I use a new laptop as source and add in white noise and sine arith file to the above list, is there any chance that the sound of my EDSE will get worse? or is it only improve?


 





 dcp, you are opening a can of worms here. I am a HUGE proponent of Burn in. A lot of others are not. I routinely when purchasing a new Earphone or Headphone give an initial listen OTB, Roll tips on Earphones to find what may be the best then Put it in a Box with a Player for 200Hrs. using all different types of source material. The only breaks it takes are a couple daily 2-4 hr. recharges, and I have a good listen every 50 Hours, and Only at 50 hour intervals to avoid the dreaded Brain- Burn, (Your ears adjusting to the sound, not an actual difference from burn in).
  
 For the most Part IT DOES MAKE A PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCE. However, on some I have witnessed Little or no differences.
  
  
  
 I don't take a chance, and you really don't need a specific kind of noise. You are merely exercising the Drivers. Just a bunch of Random tunes and throw it in a drawer. Personally I don't see how PINK Noise is going to subject a driver diaphram to SUB BASS Flex or Pistoning depending on the type of driver involved.
  
 BTW: give that EDSE a FULL 200 hrs. I noticed a pretty good change between 150 and 200 Hrs. My Senn. IE8s were changing up to 300 Hours!!!
  
 JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

For the most part I'll support the whole burn-in phenomenon. My personal experience with it making a difference has been really on been limited to JVCs carbon nanotube iems, such as the FXT90 and FX3X. We shall see if it makes a difference on my new FXH30 (5.8 mm in-canal titanium microdriver....this thing is a beast). The J+- Wooden Buds I have go through a stupid burn in process....I might chuck a pair into the VE tour when I ship them out to the next person just for poops and giggles.
  
 For KZ stuff, I haven't really heard any benefit to burn-in. I actually preferred the ED10 ootb, but it still sounds pretty damn bawse with a bunch of hours logged in.


----------



## fullmoon280

Does anyone here have the trinity audio hyperions? I was wondering how they compare to the ed9's sound quality wise.


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ Shootout!!​  
 Greetings KZ fanpeoples!
  
 Today we have something that is a thing. A thing of thing-like proportions; a shootout! Over the last year and a bit (or at least it feels that long), I have gathered nine of KZ's offerings, from oldies like the R3 and Micro Ring, to some well-received new-comers such as the ED10 and ATE. We also have some fan favorites in the ANV and EDse. This collection contains a wide variety of iems that represent KZ's growth and development into a titan of the budget iem world. Which iem is the best? Well, that's going to depend on you and your own personal preferences but I'll do my best to explain what I hear as the best of the bunch. Remember that the following is a collection of my own thoughts and feelings, and will certainly not be representative of the community as a whole.
  
 Sources used: Nexus S, Moto G, Asus G73 gaming laptop with the Plantronics Rig amp *Newly added: Topping NX1 and HTC One M8*
 Test Albums: Daft Punk - Random Access Memories (FLAC), EL-P - Cancer for Cure (256 kbps), Gramatik - The Age of Reason (320 kbps), Infected Mushroom - Converting Vegetarians (320 kbps), Supertramp - Crime of the Century (FLAC), High Contrast - The Agony and the Ecstasy (320 kbps), Herbie Hancock - Cantaloupe Island (256 kbps). I just want to drop a shout out to one of my favorite Youtubers, SubSil3nt, for his boss mixes. For example; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOrH3A6G5Sk (For the EDM lovers in the thread, go, enjoy!)
  
*R3*​  
​  
  
 The R3 is an interesting product from KZ. It utilizes a wooden housing and features a high quality removable cable. It looks great, feels durable, fits well, and from a visual perspective sets the standard of looking the part of a significantly more expensive product, something future KZ products continue to do quite well. My pair does suffer from debilitating flex in the left driver, somewhat avoided through the use of a pair of UE600 foam tips.
  
 Upon first listen, you can tell they are an older KZ product, lacking refinement everywhere but in the bass. They offer up some unbelievably deep and smooth bass and have a decently spacious soundstage. Moving up the register you hear a lack of refinement and run into grainy, harsh upper-mids and treble prone to sibilance. You never really run into issues with instruments or sounds blending together, or with vocals being overshadowed by bass, but they're not the most pleasant listen due to a somewhat metallic edge.
  
 While I wish there was more to say, they just don't offer up much when put head-to-head against their newer siblings. They would be a nice product for KZ enthusiasts like myself to add to their collection, but they fall short otherwise.
  
*Micro Ring*​  ​ ​  
 The Micro Ring is another older KZ model (discontinued unfortunately), unique among its siblings for it's use of a tip-mounted, 6mm micro driver. They are amply vented: open backed with five vents along the top of the housing. Despite this, they isolate acceptably.
  
 The Micro Ring does not follow in the footsteps of its fellow brethren and feels inexpensive and fragile. The cable is slender and poorly relieved at both the housings and y-split, but is excellently relieved at the jack. The 90 degree angled jack used here makes an appearance on many future KZ products.
  
 The Micro Ring is well balanced with a bit of a bass boost, taking on a darker sound. It brings to the table detailed treble, a deep soundstage, good instrument separation, punchy mid-bass, and very capable sub-bass. Their natural sounding vocals, both male and female, are of particular note. Some iems sound a little thin, some run with a thick meaty sound. The Micro Ring sits right in between offering up just the right amount of weight. Compared to other similarly designed iems that I've tried (JVC FRD60, Yahama EPH-100 replica), these offer up a warm, non-fatiguing sound. The only issue I have with them is a slight veil to their sound. After listening for a few minutes you can filter it out, but it does make them sound a bit muffled initially.
  
*ANV (2014)*​  
​  
 The ANV is interesting in that opinions seem to fall into the 'love it' or 'hate it' categories. This may be due to their being at least two different models, visually indistinguishable from each other. Since I have been lucky enough to own both versions, I can attest to there being a difference between the original model and the later 2014 version.
  
 The ANV is a splitting image of the Audio Technica CKW1000ANV sans wooden button on the backside. Fortunately, this means they look quite good, with beautifully flowing lines. Next to more traditional barrel shaped iems, I find them quite dashing. The cable is a little oldschool but is thick, durable, and tangle-resistant. They are well relieved both at the slightly chunky straight jack and housings. The y-split is exceptionally compact and breaks apart into a well-hidden chin slider.
  
 The original model was much like the R3 with edgy, sibilance prone treble. They are quite balanced with a bass-lite attitude and forward mids. The later 2014 version that I currently own cleans up the spiky treble and adds a much needed dose of upper end sparkle and sub-bass without sacrificing their reasonably balanced sound. Despite using a large 14mm driver, bass is very quick and not overpowering. Sound is dispersed across a wide, yet forward soundstage that I wish offered more depth. I run them with large Sony Hybrids and a filter mod which further smooths out the upper registers.
  
*ATE*​  
​  
 The ATE is one of the new breed of KZ, aping it's design pretty clearly from the Audio Technica ATH-IM50. I only have the silver launch version (four of them) and am unable to comment on the opaque black version revealed shortly after their original release. The build and material quality of the housing I find lackluster. Unlike the majority of KZ products, these are plastic. For the price it's fine, but compared to something like the ED3 or ED10 it's hard not to think KZ could have done a little better here. Isolation is also surprisingly poor, but at least the cable is nice if not a little sticky. Like the Micro Ring it is well relieved at the jack, but could be better relieved everywhere else.
  
 So, they feel a little underwhelming in-hand. Luckily that feeling doesn't carry over to how they sound. These offer up a very relaxed sound with treble that borders rolling off early, and smooth, forward mids. I particularly enjoy their presentation of female vocals. They have wonderful mid-bass presence that doesn't bleed into other frequencies, but I would like a lot more umph and rumble in the sub-bass. I tend to like aggressive sounding iems, so compared to my usual preferences these play it a bit safe and polite. On the plus side, this relaxed sound means they are not at all fatiguing. This quality makes them one of my top picks in KZ's lineup.
  
 *Update: Due to minor fit issues caused by the thick nozzle stem, I've been struggling with finding the best tips. I had settled on those from my UE600, but recently stepped back to a set of large silicones very similar to the stock pair. The difference is the silicone is thinner and more pliable. With the deeper and improved seal, I get much improved bass response. I still they are pretty darn bass-lite, but they're so pleasant to listen to I do not consider this a negative.
  
*CM9*​  
​  
 I'll be blunt, these are the worst of the KZ products I have tried, and not by a small margin. I have no idea what's wrong with them, but they sound very, very wrong. They have a great soundstage and ridiculous sub-bass, but that's about all I can give them credit for.
  
 The housing is decently built, but despite being metal feels plastic and frail. The cable is a very generic item, nowhere near the quality of KZ's other cables. It's actually the same cable used on a pair of replica EPH-100 I picked up earlier in the year.
  
 For some reason their bass is explosive and in-your-face, while both mids and treble recessed and hollow. Aggressive burn-in and wide bore tips help to bring them forward a bit, but there is still this odd dissociation between bass and everything else. It's akin to what I would expect from a (very) poorly tuned dual driver, or standing next to a subwoofer with the primary speakers facing the wrong direction. This was quite a disappointment as it took four attempts to actually get a pair. Oh well. At least they work. *shrug*
  
*EDse*​  
​  
 The EDse have a pretty loyal following, and for good reason; they sound fantastic, bat well-above their obscenely low price point, and are very well built. They also have one of my favorite cables of all time; it's flexible, durable, resists tangling very well, has little memory, and looks awesome. This is a cable I would like to swap onto many of my other iems it's that good.
  
 To some the EDse looks like a medieval torture device. I wouldn't go quite that far, but I will say that they have a unique look that is all their own. The giant grill on the back, weird texture of the housing, and gold nozzles make for an odd mix. I love it.
  
 When it comes to sound quality there is little to fault about the EDse. Like many of KZ's products, they have a much larger soundstage than you would expect from such an inexpensive product. I wouldn't say it's quite as large as the Micro Ring's, but it is more well-rounded and does a better job of placing instruments where they should be. Bass is exaggerated but is not overpowering with deep sub-bass response. Mids are very fluid and share the same perfect note thickness of the Micro Ring. As an all-round iem they are top of the class. The only major fault I found is that their treble is splashy and undefined. While it isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things, everything else is so good that it sticks out like a sore thumb and ruins the experience. I've tried tip rolling, multiple sources, EQing, etc. but I just can't get the treble to tighten up to the extent I would like. This is clearly a personal thing, as others adore the treble presentation of the EDse.
  
*ED3*​  
​  
 Now that I've taken the chance to sit down and really listen to the ED3 critically, I'm a bit surprised these aren't talked about more. They have the best build of the bunch, being formed from one solid hunk of metal. They cable is a bit springy, but totally manageable. The nozzle is similar to the EDse's and not the most accommodating of a wide variety of tips. Once I finally found the right tip and achieved a perfect seal, I realized these are a seriously capable iem.
  
 Initially I felt these offered up very little bass. While I think it is only slightly deeper than neutral, it is exceptionally quick and tight, almost BA-like, but with added sub-bass. Treble is emphasized and a touch thin, but the detail, clarity, and separation are top notch. Soundstage is intimate, but that doesn't detract from their very capable nature. Mids are not pulled back and are perfectly placed amid the other frequencies, if not a touch forward. They could stand to be more natural sounding, but I'm mostly nitpicking at this point. Great iem and highly recommended if big bass isn't a requirement.
  
*ED9*​  
​  
 The ED9 has a nice party piece; interchangeable filters. Unlike many iems with such a feature, these filters make a massive difference to my ears. The Gold filters (G), which are my preference, boost bass and treble. The Brass filters (B) bring a more reference sound to the mix, balancing them out across the board. They still have boosted bass with either filter in place, but less so with the brass filters.
  
 I can't help but feel that the ED9(G) and EDse are more or less interchangeable given how similar the sound is. Outside of the the tighter treble on the ED9(G), the two iems are quite comparable. The EDse produces a smidge more sub-bass, and the ED9(G) is a touch brighter, but they share excellent mids, soundstage, and other descriptive adjectives.
  
 The ED9(B) brings out the reference side of KZ. These filters allow for mildly deeper insertion and open up the soundstage. Where the (G) has clearly defined limits to its soundstage, the (B) opens that up. Unfortunately, it also makes the treble too splashy for my liking, and as I experienced with the EDse it gets distracting and ruins the experience. Those who can get around this (which I suspect is most of you) will find improved dynamics, intense detail, and mids brought more forward into the mix. Bass tightens up and gains some extra kick. In general I feel they are much more aggressive with (B) installed. Normally this is more my style as I love aggressive sounding iems (hence why I have a few of JVC's carbon nanotube iems), but that treble sidetracks me every time.
  
 Moving away from how they sound, they have a pretty cool design. Open-backed, octagonal housing, great strain reliefs all around, and what I think is a pretty good cable apart from the bounciness. They don't have the premium feel of ANV or solidness of the ED3, but they're no slouch either. The ED9 is an outstanding iem, and like most KZ products hits a level of competence far above what you would expect from its humble price.
  
*ED10*​  
​  
 The ED10 have the most cohesive sound of all the KZ iems I own. Bass, like on the ED3, is exceptionally quick and punchy but the ED10 offers up more; more rumbly subs, even punchier mid-bass. The soundstage isn't huge, but is large enough for each sound to play in it's own distinct space. As the newest KZ in my collection, I haven't spent nearly as much time with these vs. the other KZ's that I own ('cept the CM9), however they are immediately a more comprehensive listen. They display a very smooth and organic sound like the ATE, but unlike the ATE maintain this while offering up nicely emphasized treble with lots of sparkle. Mids are clean and clear, and unaffected by bass. No part of the sound spectrum sticks out or is clearly more refined.
  
 In addition to sounding outstanding, build quality is spot-on. The housing is all-metal and displays some interesting features including a unique shape and neat bi-color backplate. I personally can't use them with the cable behind my ear due to the layout of the strain relief, but I know others will not run into this issue. Cable down they are easily one of the most comfortable and unobtrusive iems in my vast collection. They share that ever-familiar cable with much of the KZ lineup and strain relief all around is very good. The 90 degree angled jack is the same as that found on the Micro Ring. There isn't much to fault here.
  
*KZ DS*​  
 Update: I got the DS a while back, but unfortunately they are horribly imbalanced with one side having noticeably less bass. That said, I think I would have liked them had they worked properly as the one properly working driver has a much more cohesive sound than the CM9 I was sent (which I still think is faulty). Build quality is in line with the price I paid, ~5 CAD, so nothing special there. Newer KZs have taken massive stride forward in this regard. They are comfortable though. SO yeah, despite their issues I am slotting them in just above the CM9. Horton, if you are reading this and out of the kindness of your heart decide to send over a fully functional CM9 and DS for review purposes, I would be very grateful 
  
*Rankings!*
  
 1. ED10
 2. ANV
 3. ATE
 4. Micro Ring
 5. ED3
 6. ED9(G)
 7. EDse
 8. ED9(B)
 9. R3
 10. DS
 11. CM9
  
 There was no question about the ED10 sitting in my number 1 spot. From the first listen, I was impressed with the quality and refinement they offered in every aspect over other KZ iems; bass, mids, treble, build quality, fit, design. Now that I've spent quite a bit of time with them, I've only become more confident in this. It feels like KZ took the best aspects of each of their top products and mashed them together to create a near-perfect budget iem. After experiencing this batch of budget juggernauts, the ZN1 can't arrive soon enough now.
  
*Update*: It's been a while since I wrote this and while I still feel the ED10 is KZ's best iem of those that I've tried, I did shift around some of the others. I moved the ANV definitively into the #2 spot. The only thing holding me back from putting them at #1 is the fact that they needed some modding to smooth out the treble spikes. I also dropped the Micro Ring down to #4 and moved the ATE to the #3 spot. The ATE and Micro Ring are two sides of the same signature, with the Micro Ring offering up noticeably more bass. The veil over the Micro Ring's sound clinched the drop. I still love them, and really hope KZ makes a killer follow up at some point, but they're outclassed amidst the newest members of their family.
  
 I have the HDS1, ZS1, and revised ED3 2015 on the way and will be sure to update again when they arrive. 
  
​ *** Micro Ring Love ***​


----------



## TwinACStacks

PLUS the ED10s are $8.34 USD. Yes I know, a princely sum, but worth every penny....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Trapok

$8.34, no $8.06


----------



## TwinACStacks

trapok said:


> $8.34, no $8.06


 





 I used the same seller I got my first pair from.
  








 TWIN


----------



## 1clearhead

hrad2 said:


> DT5 and DT5 Pole Tone, are different, they have different markings and different sound


 
  
 DT5 and DT5 Pole Tone sounds interesting. Can you describe some of the differences? I may want to add one of the two to my collection!


----------



## HraD2

1clearhead said:


> DT5 and DT5 Pole Tone sounds interesting. Can you describe some of the differences? I may want to add one of the two to my collection!


 
 Dont waste money on them. DT5 are crap even after 100 burn-in, Pole Tone are a bit better, but a crap too, only for EDM. 
 A lot of bass, very poor scene, instrument separation (especially DT5), mids and highs. Main difference in instrument separation.


----------



## SSSN

Wow, now I am really looking forward to my ED10s which I've ordered a few days ago. I already love the ATE's sound. If the ED10 tops that...


----------



## playmate

What kind of tips do you guys recommend? The ones provided by the ATE and ED9 doesn't give a particularly good fit


----------



## EISENbricher

sssn said:


> Wow, now I am really looking forward to my ED10s which I've ordered a few days ago. I already love the ATE's sound. If the ED10 tops that...


 
 You'll love those : ) 
  


b9scrambler said:


> KZ Shootout!!​


 
 Very good post, B9. Hats off!
  


twinacstacks said:


> Hey EISEN. I just ordered a Few more earphones from China, (8 to be exact, but 2 are replacements going to my wife--an EDSE and a ED10), A couple of B/As, a Hybrid and several Single/Dual Dynamics. Should be interesting. I FINALLY ordered a Carbo Tenore as well from Japan. I heard nothing but raves on these for quite a while so I thought I would check out the Hype. WHILE I was checking out the Different Zero Audio models I found THESE, (Apparently their new Single Balanced Armature). A little more pricey but I'll wait. What say you?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZERO-AUDIO-ZH-BX510-CS-CARBO-SINGOLO-In-Ear-Headphones-New-F-S-From-Japan-/261991953145?hash=item3cffeff2f9
> 
> ...


 
 Haha you are on a fire, Twin. Best luck in your forey into IEMs. Do let us know which ones are better of the bunch. It always helps.
 I personally want to try a BA earphone since some of qualities of BA can't be represented by most dynamics. I'm reserving decision to buy one though, since I'm a bass lover. BAs are stereotypically weak in that department.
  
 Tenore is good. Nice decision. A very refined sounding phone indeed. You need to babysit those though.
  
 Yeah there are several ZA models and all have been lauded by people here. Zero Audio is like KZ of Japan. Low cost, great quality (particularty SQ) and never disappoints. 
 Take a look at this thread to know more : http://www.head-fi.org/t/748349/zero-audio-impression-and-information-thread-dx200-dx210-bx700-bx510-bx500-bx300-dwx10


----------



## EISENbricher

playmate said:


> What kind of tips do you guys recommend? The ones provided by the ATE and ED9 doesn't give a particularly good fit


 
 Sony Hybrids are good on ED9 and they give a nice fit. Also they have better synergy with Brass nozzle. They'll boost low frequencies a little and smoothen highs a bit. Pretty much balances the sound.
  
 For ATE, Piston2' s small tips worked really well and also small pink whirlwind tips that I got with TTPOD T1E.
  
 In short on ED9 you'd be looking for soft, narrow bore tips. 
 On ATE you'd be good with short length and small sized tips since ATE's nozzle is huge. Narrow bore would give fuller sound and wider bore will grant you more details.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> You'll love those : )
> 
> Very good post, B9. Hats off!
> 
> ...




Thanks man!

If you want something with the speed of a BA and the bass of a dd, look no further than the JVC HA-FXH30. Should be posting a review of them within the next couple weeks. Since this is the wrong thread I'll leave it at that for now.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> If you want something with the speed of a BA and the bass of a dd, look no further than the JVC HA-FXH30. Should be posting a review of them within the next couple weeks. Since this is the wrong thread I'll leave it at that for now.


 
 Thanks for the suggestion, but at least for next few months I won't be considering anything costing above $50. KZ has lowered the bar for me : )


----------



## encompassment

i have the kz ed9, but the left channel seems to be at half volume from the right no matter the source and these are brand new ... im using the bronze nozle, what em i doing wrong? is this a common problem how to fix?


----------



## Grayson73

twinacstacks said:


> Hey EISEN. I just ordered a Few more earphones from China, (8 to be exact, but 2 are replacements going to my wife--an EDSE and a ED10), A couple of B/As, a Hybrid and several Single/Dual Dynamics. Should be interesting. I FINALLY ordered a Carbo Tenore as well from Japan. I heard nothing but raves on these for quite a while so I thought I would check out the Hype. WHILE I was checking out the Different Zero Audio models I found THESE, (Apparently their new Single Balanced Armature). A little more pricey but I'll wait. What say you?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZERO-AUDIO-ZH-BX510-CS-CARBO-SINGOLO-In-Ear-Headphones-New-F-S-From-Japan-/261991953145?hash=item3cffeff2f9
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on the Tenore!  If you like pop music, you'll love them.
  
 Singolo and Doppio are not new; they've been discussed in the Zero Audio thread for awhile.  I have the Singolo for sale.
  
 The newest Zero Audio is the Duoza.


----------



## CoiL

playmate said:


> What kind of tips do you guys recommend? The ones provided by the ATE and ED9 doesn't give a particularly good fit


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/15#post_11787305


----------



## TwinACStacks

I think I used the Red Bore Clears that came with the ED9 and never looked back with the ATE. They were perfect.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

THESE Hybrids look very interesting but I don't want to pop $70 until I can find out more about them:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/wholesale-Hybrid-10mm-Dynamic-Balance-Armature-dual-driver-in-ear-monitor-headphone-earphone/32429358877.html
  
 All I know now is they are a Model F3 by HL. The specs look very good.
  
 These are their little brothers the F2:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Premium-Hybrid-Balance-Armature-Dynamic-dual-driver-IEMs-in-ear-Earphones-headphone/32400620891.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## HraD2

TwinACStacks, your first link: Frequency Response: *5Hz-28000Hz*, second link: Frequency Response: *8Hz-26000Hz.* Drivers are the same: Driver Unit: 10mm Dynamic Driver + Balanced Armature Unit (Armature XXK018MS). 
 If drivers are the same, what for FR different?


----------



## TwinACStacks

HA!!! I found them. they are mentioned in The New discovery Thread. They Are Bette Hybrids, You can get them on Amazon $42.99.
  
 Not much else. Short review says they are well made (That is obvious from the pics) and sound very good.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

hrad2 said:


> TwinACStacks, your first link: Frequency Response: *5Hz-28000Hz*, second link: Frequency Response: *8Hz-26000Hz.* Drivers are the same: Driver Unit: 10mm Dynamic Driver + Balanced Armature Unit (Armature XXK018MS).
> If drivers are the same, what for FR different?


 
 No Idea, But The Red one has a 10mm driver the Blue has an 8mm driver according to other websites. It's also available on EBAY for 42.99. I just checked. The Blue one is too although it looks different.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

Pretty sure the Bettes had a front page review a couple weeks ago:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/bette-8mm-1-1-hybrid


----------



## TwinACStacks

Scrambler that Blue one is on Ebay for $36.99. I would opt for the Red (Rose) one with the 10mm Driver and Better Freq. response for $42.99.
  
 I LOVE this discovering things!!! It always seems I'm a couple days late though.
  
 I might pop for it next week, but right now I'm waiting for delivery of:
  
 VJJB
 Rock Zircon
 MOAOL MP850
 Earmax ER580
 Earmax ER610
 Carbo Tenore
  
 PLUS an ED10 and EDSE for the Wifey.
  
  
 I'm going to be busy for a while burning stuff in....
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Scrambler that Blue one is on Ebay for $36.99. I would opt for the Red (Rose) one with the 10mm Driver and Better Freq. response for $42.99.
> 
> 
> TWIN




Oh yeah..... Don't those blue ones share the same drivers as Bette's woodies? My b!!! 

Hope you enjoy those new purchases. Some good ones in there


----------



## HraD2

TwinACStacks, do not even open ER610! Put them in trash box immedeately or send back, save your money )))


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Oh yeah..... Don't those blue ones share the same drivers as Bette's woodies? My b!!!
> 
> Hope you enjoy those new purchases. Some good ones in there


 





 Okay I couldn't stand it, I popped for the Red one too. That's it I'm tapped out. Got just enough for the New Nozzles for the Trinity Delta shipping. I'm done for a while.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

hrad2 said:


> TwinACStacks, do not even open ER610! Put them in trash box immedeately or send back, save your money )))


 





 That's odd I haven't heard anything basically but good about earmax products.
  
 Do You have experience with the 610?
  








 TWIN


----------



## HraD2

Yes, i have them. They are awful, just like 0.99$ fake Beats or even worse. No scene, no instrument separation, no bass at all. May be then can sound if you have only one or two instrument in your composition...


----------



## HraD2

I dont even hear words in songs...


----------



## SWLIU

twinacstacks said:


> Okay I couldn't stand it, I popped for the Red one too. That's it I'm tapped out. Got just enough for the New Nozzles for the Trinity Delta shipping. I'm done for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I own the BETTE 10mm hybrid blue/black version (from amazon) and enjoy them very much. They sound as good as Titan 1 with a bit more left/right separation. Thanks to BloodyPenguin, I will have the wood version tonight when I get home from work. Can't wait to compare the two versions.


----------



## encompassment

> i have the kz ed9, but the left channel seems to be at half volume from the right no matter the source and these are brand new ... im using the bronze nozle, what em i doing wrong? is this a common problem how to fix?


 
 i found a solution to this, that works for me atleast. i ran my ed9 at 80% volume and than placed the metal housing in a stream of steam for about a minute while the music played. The music continued to play while it cooled. once they where cool enought to put in my ears the volumes where perfect on each side  i would even go as far to say that the sound quality improved.
 I think that this is because the diaphram could relax with the heat and because they where in motion they cooled with memory of it.
  
 i felt comfortable running them thru a stream of steam because they are so inexpensive that i didn't really care if they where trashed after.
  
 p.s. responding to my own problem and posting here incase it helps someone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 p.s. make sure no steam enters the housing, water could condense inside


----------



## TwinACStacks

Thanx SWLIU. That's GOOD news to me as the Titan remains one of my favorites. Right now I carry with me:
  
 Trinity Deltas
 Dunu Titans
 KZ---- ED10, ATE, EDSE.
  
 That pretty much covers everything I need.
  








 TWIN


----------



## SWLIU

twinacstacks said:


> Thanx SWLIU. That's GOOD news to me as the Titan remains one of my favorites. Right now I carry with me:
> 
> Trinity Deltas
> Dunu Titans
> ...


 
  
 My IEMs usage:
  
 DUNU Titan 1 for listening in quiet rooms
 BETTE 10mm Hybrid in the office or walking around (better isolation)
 KZ ED9 with Mic when expecting phone calls
 KZ ED10 or Xiaomi Piston 3 in bed before sleep
 KZ ANV for doing house chores


----------



## B9Scrambler

My current iem lineup:

1. JVC HA-FXH30 has replaced the Titan 1 for at home listening. Been using at work for testing. Not sure if that will continue.
2. NarMoo W1M and ED10 (with mic) for work and mobile activities
3. ATE and Piston 3.0 swapped in when I don't want to use the W1M or ED10. 

Love how these hyper cheap KZ iems can easily be used alongside much more expensive products, and it doesn't feel like I'm making a compromise.


----------



## Charliemotta

The Piston 3 is the worst iem I've ever heard.  I'll take my Ivery over that piece of  $rap....IMO


----------



## B9Scrambler

charliemotta said:


> The Piston 3 is the worst iem I've ever heard.  I'll take my Ivery over that piece of  $rap.




Well, to each their own, lol. I love the Piston 3.0. I went in with low expectations as I really didn't like the Piston 2.1s all that much. Found them on sale for 8 USD, decided "why the heck not" and ordered them.

The only complaint I have is they're slightly dry sounding. Other than that, I feel they compete pretty well with the current crop of KZ stuff, and are much improved over the 2.1s.


----------



## slowpickr

b9scrambler said:


> My current iem lineup:
> 
> 1. JVC HA-FXH30 has replaced the Titan 1 for at home listening. Been using at work for testing. Not sure if that will continue.
> 2. NarMoo W1M and ED10 (with mic) for work and mobile activities
> ...


 
  
 So is there a general consensus yet on which KZ model is "THE" best ever?
  
 My current IEM lineup:
  
 1. Ostry KC06A - work
 2. Titan 1 - Home listening and movies.
 3. Yamaha EPH-100 - airports/flying.
 4. KZ EDSE hasn't seen much use lately.  Need to take it out of storage.  Thought I would mention it since this is the KZ thread.


----------



## EISENbricher

slowpickr said:


> So is there a general consensus yet on which KZ model is "THE" best ever?
> 
> My current IEM lineup:
> 
> ...



ED10 IMO is the best yet. At least among all KZs I own it provides the most coherent and entertaining sound. If someone terms neutrality = quality then they are in little trouble.
Also, build quality wise they are only second to the ED3 (which is basically a tank). Not to mention ED10 is among the most comfortable IEMs as well. 
Combining these all, imo they are really worth the title, as of now.


----------



## theuprising

How does the Havi B3 Pro I compare to the ED9, spending some more time with it, its pretty good for a 15 dollar iem, and it has some clarity and natural sounding treble, as it should because its a weird semi-open iem, everything else is a bit fuzzy. To me quality = clarity in each Fq + soundstage, FR just depends on taste. The T1e's mids are much more clear in comparison to the ED9's, though its not fair to compare their treble and bass, because the ED9's bass is rolled off, and the T1e's treble is rolled off the face of the earth.


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> So is there a general consensus yet on which KZ model is "THE" best ever?
> 
> My current IEM lineup:
> 
> ...


 
 The ED10 is basically a rebranded KC06A with some different parts. If you get the ED10 you won't be dissapointed in your purchase, but you will feel like they are pretty close to the KC06A to the point that you aren't experiencing something different.
  
 I really like my ED9. Everyone from the average consumer to audiophiles who make their own gear agree that the ED9 is a stupidly good sounding earphone for $100, let alone the $11 or whatever they are on sale for. 
  
 The ATE is really good if you missed out on the ATH-IM50. Similar builds, similar sound. 
  
 If you're looking for a warm sound with a smooth, forward and extended bass response with a nice complimentary midrange and clean treble, go with the DM3.
  
 If you want a wide soundstage for an in-ear and don't mind extended treble and don't listen at really high volumes, the KZEDSE is pretty friggen sweet.


----------



## ayao

hisoundfi said:


> The ED10 is basically a rebranded KC06A with some different parts. If you get the ED10 you won't be dissapointed in your purchase, but you will feel like they are pretty close to the KC06A to the point that you aren't experiencing something different.


 
 Are you sure about the ED10? I don't have one, but I do have the KC06A and KC06 gold which I think are in GR07 territory (I have the GR07BE and XE800, had the GR07C until it broke). Most people praised the Ostry for the mids, while most people here say the ED10 is V-shaped.


----------



## EISENbricher

Don't have kc06 to compare, but from what I've gathered so far the ED10 has different sound signature. 

Not that I'm disagreeing, but just that this needs backing from more people who own both the IEMs.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slowpickr said:


> So is there a general consensus yet on which KZ model is "THE" best ever?
> 
> My current IEM lineup:
> 
> ...




Seems to be the ED10, for those that have picked it up. I certainly agree, as it is an excellent product.


----------



## eaglearrow

eisenbricher said:


> Don't have kc06 to compare, but from what I've gathered so far the ED10 has different sound signature.
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I'm disagreeing, but just that this needs backing from more people who own both the IEMs.



 


I already own a KC06A and soon ill be recieveing my ED10's. Ill share my thoughts once i recieve them.


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> I think I used the Red Bore Clears that came with the ED9 and never looked back with the ATE. They were perfect.


 
 I did use also smallest ED9 red bore before and they are very good for ATE.  But imho smallest "whirlwinds" are better due to larger bore and snug nozzle fit.
 Of course end result depends on personal ear shape
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


slowpickr said:


> So is there a general consensus yet on which KZ model is "THE" best ever?


 
 Depends on source gear and personal taste, hearing etc. Most of ppl here seem to praise ED10. Don`t have it yet but so far my opinion is that ATE (translucent black) is "best" KZ IEM.
 Just my subjective opinion with my source gear (check profile). Many forget to mention about it.
 It`s important factor in resulting sound.


----------



## mebaali

Since there are quite a few good praise (especially with some people comparing ED10 to IEMs that costs way more and have quite a following E.g., KC06/Titans etc) coming out for ED10, just couldn't resist the temptation. Ordered it just now


----------



## Lohb

Even hooking the wire over my ears, I found they worked their way out when walking, but these clips have solved it.
 It's that longer body. The cable kind of levered them back-and-forth b4 until the seal was broken.
  

  
  
 I don't think my ED10 coming will have this problem, as they look about half as deep.


----------



## CoiL

Lohb, this helps with ED9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 



 Writing while working on my next ATE mod...


----------



## Lohb

Did you slice diagonally on the barrel before adding wood ? It looks shorter.
  
 Short OT, is your DX50 mod the one that they sell online or is it another discovery of your own ?


----------



## CoiL

Yes, it`s almost "half" shorter and under angle. Did it with sanding bench, brass is quite easy to grind off. First of course I put ED9 in my ear and took exact angle by marking with thin-tip marker. I grind it down/short as possible by driver location.
  
 DX50 mod is encouraged by babs DX50 mods thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/720776/ibasso-dx50-mods
 Did my own extensive capacitor testing too (decided to go with Pana FC) and soon will try out some opamps on HO section and some more Pana poscaps in amplifier/power section that babs recommended.


----------



## Trapok

slowpickr said:


> So is there a general consensus yet on which KZ model is "THE" best ever?
> 
> My current IEM lineup:
> 
> ...


 

 For me a can say with no hesitation the ED10


----------



## Horton

coil said:


> Yes, it`s almost "half" shorter and under angle. Did it with sanding bench, brass is quite easy to grind off. First of course I put ED9 in my ear and took exact angle by marking with thin-tip marker. I grind it down/short as possible by driver location.
> 
> DX50 mod is encouraged by babs DX50 mods thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/720776/ibasso-dx50-mods
> Did my own extensive capacitor testing too (decided to go with Pana FC) and soon will try out some opamps on HO section and some more Pana poscaps in amplifier/power section that babs recommended.


 
 Yes, it is very hard to mod with metal material.
 How about the sound performance of these model , but anyway they looks so cool
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/871146/workshop/
 by the way, find an amps motherboard of ZN1, but where is the 2pcs amplifier chips? only could find one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 if two "cpu" really better?
 If @CoiLcould mod this, haha


----------



## CoiL

Horton, talk about it with babs, maybe he can help tweaking it. I`m not so good in reading electronics schematics out of PCB as babs is.
  
 Sorry for OT. Lets continue with KZ talk


----------



## Ruben123

Hey, I found the KZ GKs with the two filters (with holes, like a year ago)!
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-gr-balanced-Pro-ear-earbud-headphones-bass-vocal-music-enthusiast-patent-headphones/1246446_2049023511.html


----------



## Arsis

All the ed10 talk is killing me. I ordered mine two weeks ago. :tongue_smile:
Also, I saw someone compared ATE to im-50. Are they close enough that if I have im-50 I should get something other than ATE?


----------



## Lohb

horton said:


> Yes, it is very hard to mod with metal material.
> How about the sound performance of these model , but anyway they looks so cool
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Change your brand to simply...' Zenith. '
 It's cooler.


----------



## TwinACStacks

The ED10s are SMALL. Careful you don't lose them in your ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Guys don't worry. We aren't fibbing about the ED10s. Coil, I think you especially are going to be pleasantly surprised....
  
 I personally didn't think these "NEW" EDs were going to be anything to write home about according to KZ's  own description.
  
 I NOW believe they didn't know what they had created and underestimated themselves. JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> KZ Shootout!!​
> Greetings KZ fanpeoples!
> 
> Today we have something that is a thing. A thing of thing-like proportions; a shootout! Over the last year and a bit (or at least it feels that long), I have gathered nine of KZ's offerings, from oldies like the R3 and Micro Ring, to some well-received new-comers such as the ED10 and ATE. We also have some fan favorites in the ANV and EDse. This collection contains a wide variety of iems that represent KZ's growth and development into a titan of the budget iem world. Which iem is the best? Well, that's going to depend on you and your own personal preferences but I'll do my best to explain what I hear as the best of the bunch. Remember that the following is a collection of my own thoughts and feelings, and will certainly not be representative of the community as a whole.
> ...


 
 Nice! .....Very nice and well noted!
  


hrad2 said:


> Dont waste money on them. DT5 are crap even after 100 burn-in, Pole Tone are a bit better, but a crap too, only for EDM.
> A lot of bass, very poor scene, instrument separation (especially DT5), mids and highs. Main difference in instrument separation.


 
 Thanks for the heads-up!
  


hrad2 said:


> TwinACStacks, do not even open ER610! Put them in trash box immedeately or send back, save your money )))


 
 +1 .....Got them! They are just so irritating and metallic sounding. They have no life to them what's-so-ever!
  


eaglearrow said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Don't have kc06 to compare, but from what I've gathered so far the ED10 has different sound signature.
> ...


 
 Can't wait!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


trapok said:


> For me a can say with no hesitation the ED10


 
 +1 .....same here!


----------



## 1clearhead

Listening to my current favorites for the past few months.....
  
 1. KZ ED10 = GranVela URBANFUN (2-way hybrid)
 2. KZ ED9
 3. Sound Phil K5
 4. KZ ATE


----------



## EISENbricher

Great... After being underrated for some time ED10 is now in its glory days. The ED9/ATE hype had suppressed ED10 for some time.


So glad that I took a shot in dark and ordered ED10 just for sake of collectible from KZ. Initially it was said that ED10 would be limited edition, one batch only earphone and that it sounds inferior compared to ED9. Seems like this is not the case.


----------



## TwinACStacks

eisenbricher said:


> Great... After being underrated for some time ED10 is now in its glory days. The ED9/ATE hype had suppressed ED10 for some time.
> 
> 
> So glad that I took a shot in dark and ordered ED10 just for sake of collectible from KZ. Initially it was said that ED10 would be limited edition, one batch only earphone and that it sounds inferior compared to ED9. Seems like this is not the case.


 






Yeah, it's pretty bad when a Manufacturer is churning out so many IEMs so quickly that even THEY don't know what they sound like!!!
  
 I guess It's up to us to tell them. I have a second Pair of ED10s Due Monday. (For my Mrs.)
  








 TWIN


----------



## robervaul

1clearhead said:


> Listening to my current favorites for the past few months.....
> 
> 1. KZ ED10 = GranVela URBANFUN (2-way hybrid)
> 2. KZ ED9
> ...


 
 1. KZ ED10 = GranVela URBANFUN (2-way hybrid)


----------



## Lohb

eisenbricher said:


> Great... After being underrated for some time ED10 is now in its glory days. The ED9/ATE hype had suppressed ED10 for some time.
> 
> 
> So glad that I took a shot in dark and ordered ED10 just for sake of collectible from KZ. Initially it was said that ED10 would be limited edition, one batch only earphone and that it sounds inferior compared to ED9. Seems like this is not the case.


 

 What do you think the main weakness is with ED9, compared to ED10 that you rank highest in your sig. ?


----------



## theuprising

I feel the ED10 is going to be overhyped like everything on these boards...


----------



## Lohb

theuprising said:


> I feel the ED10 is going to be overhyped like everything on these boards...


 

 It's not a lot of money in the hole if it is. I'll only be using mine for exercise anyway to bring some tribal low-end rhythm.
 Imagine dropping $2k on a hypefest....$8....gift them onwards...


----------



## B9Scrambler

theuprising said:


> I feel the ED10 is going to be overhyped like everything on these boards...




I'm fine hyping the ED10. Really, what do they do wrong? Great build quality, unique design, better cable than most much more expensive iems, excellent sound, good isolation, acceptable inline mic performance, etc. 

Putting price back into the equation, the value they offer is just insane. For someone wanting a cheap earphone, you could easily purchase a less competent iem at a much higher cost. The ED10 really doesn't do anything wrong, except maybe offer too much bass. However, you could argue that as a mobile iem bass is a good thing. It helps their already good isolation drown out additional noise.

At ~10 bucks, what can you expect? KZ stuff delivers in spades.


----------



## sososerious

twinacstacks said:


> That's odd I haven't heard anything basically but good about earmax products.
> 
> Do You have experience with the 610?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


hrad2 said:


> Yes, i have them. They are awful, just like 0.99$ fake Beats or even worse. No scene, no instrument separation, no bass at all. May be then can sound if you have only one or two instrument in your composition...


 
  
  


hrad2 said:


> I dont even hear words in songs...


 
  
 Sorry that this is not KZ and from a few pages back but I also jumped on these and thought they were awful, took them apart and the drivers were genuine knowles DTEC but loose and rattling around in the housing, the nozzles were bent, collapsed and jammed with super glue.
  
 Cleaned them up for use in a multi-BA project of mine and the drivers sound fine now, cheapest way to get 2 x DTEC drivers to be honest but bad workmanship in putting it all together makes the ER610 an unwise purchase for an iem.
  
 Stick with KZ where you get good components and good workmanship!
  
 .SoSoS.


----------



## audioxxx

I have the kz ate, ed9, and ed10 and out of the 3 the ed10 is a terrific bargain, seriously I couldn't use a bad sounding iem, and on my Sony radio these things rock. The comfort level is great, I can sleep on my side wearing them, unlike the ed9 which feel like bolts hanging out of your head.
 I actually got a shock how good they are for $8 USD, and I give the kz ed10 the bargain of the year award, and just ordered 6 pairs to gift for friends and family.


----------



## adityak469

Received ED8
It's too big, and as @audioxxx said about ED9, ED8 also feels like bolts hanging out of my ears.

Waiting for ED10 to be delivered now 

Sent from my SM-A300H using Tapatalk


----------



## peter123

arsis said:


> All the ed10 talk is killing me. I ordered mine two weeks ago. :tongue_smile:
> Also, I saw someone compared ATE to im-50. Are they close enough that if I have im-50 I should get something other than ATE?




Do you have a link to that comparison? 

I've not seen one myself just read people saying that the don't sound like the IM50 and speculating that they could sound like the IM70 (which is not thr case, I've got both and don't find them similar at all).


----------



## EISENbricher

lohb said:


> What do you think the main weakness is with ED9, compared to ED10 that you rank highest in your sig. ?



Comfort, non fatiguing nature and full bodied sound. 
With gold nozzle I feel mids, upper highs take back seat. With gold everything is okay but bass extension and quantity somewhat less than my liking. 

ED10 delivers sublime, coherent sound that is rare from KZ.


----------



## HraD2

sososerious said:


> Sorry that this is not KZ and from a few pages back but I also jumped on these and thought they were awful, took them apart and the drivers were genuine knowles DTEC but loose and rattling around in the housing, the nozzles were bent, collapsed and jammed with super glue.
> 
> .SoSoS.




Is it possible to open them, fix glue and etc. and assemble back without damaging them?


----------



## sososerious

hrad2 said:


> Is it possible to open them, fix glue and etc. and assemble back without damaging them?




Yes but I have no idea if it would turn it into a decent IEM. I would not choose the DTEC as driver for a single BA IEM personally. 

YMMV 

SoSoS

Happy to discuss with you via PM if you want to try it, the KZ thread is not really the place!


----------



## TwinACStacks

theuprising said:


> I feel the ED10 is going to be overhyped like everything on these boards...


 





 HOW can you hype an earphone that cost $8.34? Even if it was totally Horrible you still got your moneys worth....
  
 IT'S AN EIGHT DOLLAR EARPHONE.
  
 The fact is: it is VERY GOOD, even if it were considerably more expensive.
  
 My Second Pair just arrived Today, A present for my other Half.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

I know they are not KZ, but has anyone heard or seen These:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/K3003-Ring-Iron-Headphones-Fever-HIFI-Sound-Quality-Move-Iron-Unit-DIY-Third-Frequency-HIFI-In/1825606_32433070383.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id2=ae_sellercrm_mail_template_1_en_US_2015-08-15&rowan_msg_id=8672SELLERCRM_50217$4f76324257ef4b8a8b39c93ed5ec9930
  








 TWIN


----------



## Tranman409

ugh never mind


----------



## ayao

peter123 said:


> Do you have a link to that comparison?
> 
> I've not seen one myself just read people saying that the don't sound like the IM50 and speculating that they could sound like the IM70 (which is not thr case, I've got both and don't find them similar at all).


 
   
 page 269 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


twister6 said:


> - ATE vs IM50: I found IM50 to have a very close sound signature with a similar mid-bass and a little more sub-bass quantity.  Also, IM50 has a little more forward upper mids with a bit warmer lower mids, though overall IM50 mids are a bit less detailed than ATE.  Tremble is very similar in quality and extension, and the same goes for soundstage similarities between these two.


----------



## Lohb

twinacstacks said:


> IT'S AN EIGHT DOLLAR EARPHONE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 which includes airmail in that price !


----------



## TwinACStacks

lohb said:


> which includes airmail in that price !


 



*exactly.*
  
*And here everybody says that people working in China for virtually Slave Labor wages are a bad thing....*
  
 I say: Keep the prices Low and I can tolerate a little Plutonium in my stuff.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

BTW, THIS:
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/K3003-Ring-Iron-Headphones-Fever-HIFI-Sound-Quality-Move-Iron-Unit-DIY-Third-Frequency-HIFI-In/1825606_32433070383.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id2=ae_sellercrm_mail_template_1_en_US_2015-08-15&rowan_msg_id=8672SELLERCRM_50217$4f76324257ef4b8a8b39c93ed5ec9930
  
 Is from the SAME manufacturer as the ED10s.
  
  
 I HAVE to wonder about this too:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-New-Original-XDUOO-X2-Professional-MP3-HIFI-Music-Player-with-OLED-Screen-Support-MP3-WMA/1825606_32398154434.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## Lohb

Not got my ED10s yet ,but are these sweat-resistant ? As I'll be using them mostly for exercise.
 I guess the driver is a form of plastic if I remember the sales page it was PET or something like that....some better kind of material.


----------



## Djinnenjous

Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices from a reputable dealer for the ED10s? I looked at 'em on Amazon and found several different prices ranging from $10 to $20, all using the same image, but while "KZ" appeared in all of their names somewhere most had other branding that may be sketchy. I'd hate to buy fakes and get faked out by a faking faker.


----------



## Lohb

djinnenjous said:


> Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices from a reputable dealer for the ED10s? I looked at 'em on Amazon and found several different prices ranging from $10 to $20, all using the same image, but while "KZ" appeared in all of their names somewhere most had other branding that may be sketchy. I'd hate to buy fakes and get faked out by a faking faker.


 

 Use a visa card on aliexpress in China...
  
 Here is one lead..Official store....perhaps !
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152/search?origin=n&SortType=orders_desc
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED10-Heavy-Bass-Nose-Noise-Isolating-Stereo-Headphones-In-Ear-earphone-with-Microphone/1358152_32382023764.html


----------



## TwinACStacks

This is the Seller I used for 2 Pairs. Great seller and it is the REAL Manufacturer of KZ earphones:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
  
*NOTE TERESA LIU is a trusted Seller. I've bought quite a few IEMs through her store.*
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

lohb said:


> Not got my ED10s yet ,but are these sweat-resistant ? As I'll be using them mostly for exercise.
> I guess the driver is a form of plastic if I remember the sales page it was PET or something like that....some better kind of material.


 





 They appear to be made out of Ceramic material and the back cover is sealed. I'd say they would probably be pretty good underwater....
  
 Long as you had a good Seal in your ears.
  








 TWIN


----------



## theuprising

twinacstacks said:


> They appear to be made out of Ceramic material and the back cover is sealed. I'd say they would probably be pretty good underwater....
> 
> Long as you had a good Seal in your ears.
> 
> ...


 
 this... iems even w/ hooks have been abysmal for strenuous exercise b/c of how difficult it is to maintain a seal. Earbuds +koss ksc75 all the way,


----------



## Lohb

theuprising said:


> this... iems even w/ hooks have been abysmal for strenuous exercise b/c of how difficult it is to maintain a seal. Earbuds +koss ksc75 all the way,


 

 ED10 ?


----------



## Shawn71

lohb said:


> Not got my ED10s yet ,but are these sweat-resistant ? As I'll be using them mostly for exercise.
> I guess the *driver is a form of plastic* if I remember the sales page it was PET or something like that....some better kind of material.


 
  
 You meant to say the shells right?....I think PET they used for the wire sheath/jacket instead PU.


----------



## B9Scrambler

theuprising said:


> this... iems even w/ hooks have been abysmal for strenuous exercise b/c of how difficult it is to maintain a seal. Earbuds +koss ksc75 all the way,




I've been lucky for the most part...very few issues with seal maintenance. Iems designed like the Sony AS800AP make fit issues a non-issue. The ATE is also pretty darn secure.


----------



## Lohb

shawn71 said:


> You meant to say the shells right?....I think PET they used for the wire sheath/jacket instead PU.


 

 Sorry, i meant the actual cone inside.


----------



## Shawn71

theuprising said:


> this... iems even w/ hooks have been abysmal for strenuous exercise b/c of how difficult it is to maintain a seal. Earbuds +koss ksc75 all the way,


 

 You referring to native over-the-ear style IEMs too?......like Meelec M6 for ex.


----------



## theuprising

b9scrambler said:


> I've been lucky for the most part...very few issues with seal maintenance. Iems designed like the Sony AS800AP make fit issues a non-issue. The ATE is also pretty darn secure.


 
 Yeah but even if its stable, if you're doing cardio, sweat will eventually mess up the seal.


----------



## Shawn71

lohb said:


> Sorry, i meant the actual cone inside.


 

 Ok, but I doubt it,due to its nature....just me sayin, I cld be wrong.


----------



## ayao

I finally gave in and ordered the ED10... interested to see how it compares with my Ostry IEMs..


----------



## Djinnenjous

lohb said:


> Use a visa card on aliexpress in China...
> 
> Here is one lead..Official store....perhaps !
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152/search?origin=n&SortType=orders_desc
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED10-Heavy-Bass-Nose-Noise-Isolating-Stereo-Headphones-In-Ear-earphone-with-Microphone/1358152_32382023764.html




Ordered, thank you very much. I'm really enjoying my ED9s and hope these are a definite improvement.


----------



## Lohb

b9scrambler said:


> I've been lucky for the most part...very few issues with seal maintenance. Iems designed like the Sony AS800AP make fit issues a non-issue. The ATE is also pretty darn secure.


 

 Hard exercising right ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

lohb said:


> Hard exercising right ?




Very hard 

Eh yooooooo


----------



## Lohb

b9scrambler said:


> Very hard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha. Good. I hope ED10 has that rich tonality of 9s.


----------



## H20Fidelity

What is the best way for someone in Australia to order some of these IEMs?


----------



## HairyHeadMara

I order mine from aliexpress, they offer free shipping and it took about three weeks to get here.


----------



## H20Fidelity

hairyheadmara said:


> I order mine from aliexpress, they offer free shipping and it took about three weeks to get here.




Thanks, 

Can you PM me some links to them on aliexpress when you have time? 

No rush.


----------



## Lohb

h20fidelity said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Can you PM me some links to them on aliexpress when you have time?
> 
> No rush.


 

 Some links to buy on this and last page....... Straya !
  
 Edit : Be interested on your take on the ED9/10 or ATE.


----------



## wijnands

Apologies for asking instead of reading 387 pages of thread   I noticed the brand on mp4nation, did a quick google and ended up here of course.
  
 I'm looking to step up in quality a bit from the philips 3590 that are currently my discrete earphones, For serious listening I got a Beyerdynamic DT770pro 250ohm. I listen mainly to classical music with a bit of jazz now and then. I dislike bloated overdone in your face bass with a fiery passion.
  
 I was looking for a good deal on the SoundMAGIC PL30 and suddenly the Knowledge Zenith R3 caught my eye. Is it any good for what I'm after. Anything else from this brand?


----------



## B9Scrambler

wijnands said:


> Apologies for asking instead of reading 387 pages of thread   I noticed the brand on mp4nation, did a quick google and ended up here of course.
> 
> I'm looking to step up in quality a bit from the philips 3590 that are currently my discrete earphones, For serious listening I got a Beyerdynamic DT770pro 250ohm. I listen mainly to classical music with a bit of jazz now and then. I dislike bloated overdone in your face bass with a fiery passion.
> 
> I was looking for a good deal on the SoundMAGIC PL30 and suddenly the Knowledge Zenith R3 caught my eye. Is it any good for what I'm after. Anything else from this brand?




The R3 is exactly what you are not looking for. They are all bass and harsh upper mids and treble. ED10, ED9, EDse are all solid picks. ATE are good as well, but they might be a bit dull for your choice genres. Go back just a couple pages and you will see a post covering nine of KZs offerings.


----------



## B9Scrambler

theuprising said:


> Yeah but even if its stable, if you're doing cardio, sweat will eventually mess up the seal.




I use them for jogging and biking where I sweat an f-ton. No issues so far. Then again, the AS800AP are on another level vs. KZ stuff, so maybe not the best place to bring them up. My b.


----------



## TwinACStacks

ONE drop of superglue on the tip, and you can exercise all you want. I can pretty much guarantee they will stay in place.
  
 May be a little tough removing them for the shower though....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Trapok

deleted


----------



## Trapok

h20fidelity said:


> What is the best way for someone in Australia to order some of these IEMs?


 
  
   





djinnenjous said:


> Anyone know where I can find the lowest prices from a reputable dealer for the ED10s? I looked at 'em on Amazon and found several different prices ranging from $10 to $20, all using the same image, but while "KZ" appeared in all of their names somewhere most had other branding that may be sketchy. I'd hate to buy fakes and get faked out by a faking faker.


 

 The lowest price and fast shipping ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)20 days for me:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html


----------



## Arsis

peter123 said:


> Do you have a link to that comparison?
> 
> I've not seen one myself just read people saying that the don't sound like the IM50 and speculating that they could sound like the IM70 (which is not thr case, I've got both and don't find them similar at all).


Someone mentioned a few pages back that ATE and IM-50 sounded alike. I was just wondering if anyone else thought the same. I enjoy the im-50. Not my favorite but I use them fairly often. ED10 arrived Friday but I have not had a chance to listen yet. Hopefully I'll get a couple of hours with them today.


----------



## wijnands

b9scrambler said:


> The R3 is exactly what you are not looking for. They are all bass and harsh upper mids and treble. ED10, ED9, EDse are all solid picks. ATE are good as well, but they might be a bit dull for your choice genres. Go back just a couple pages and you will see a post covering nine of KZs offerings.


 

 Ah, thanks for the tip I will do just that.


----------



## wijnands

ok...

 What is is this then?
  
  

 http://www.mp4nation.net/knowledge-zenith-ed-special-edition-iem-professional-earphones


----------



## dcpmale

^That's EDSE. It has a little bit more bass than needed. Not so much, but a little bit than necessary. If you like light bass, KZ ATE might be a better option. It's a more balanced and a pleasant to listen IEM.


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> Do you have a link to that comparison?
> 
> I've not seen one myself just read people saying that the don't sound like the IM50 and speculating that they could sound like the IM70 (which is not thr case, I've got both and don't find them similar at all).


I'll say the ATE has a similar signature to the IM-50


----------



## CoiL

wijnands said:


> I listen mainly to classical music with a bit of jazz now and then. I dislike bloated overdone in your face bass with a fiery passion.


 


b9scrambler said:


> ATE are good as well, but they might be a bit dull for your choice genres.


 
 Meh? Dull for classic and jazz?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Imho they sound very good with those genres, jazz especially with littlebit smoothed highs and sweet mids. ATE is best when listened with neutral open/spacious sounding source gear. 
 Contrary, I wouldn`t recommend ED9 or EDSE over ATE for those genres. ED9 is ok with brass nozzle but little harshness in highs. EDSE has great soundstage for classic but again some splashyness in highs and little sibilance in vocals.
 B9S, don`t take it in bad way but You have said Your preference is rather V-shaped signature than neutral and You listen different genres than him as Your profile says, it might affect Your recommendation.
 I listen quite a lot jazz(modern) and some classical too(not much though) and I can`t agree with Your recommendation for those genres. 
 Lot depends of course from source gear sound signature, personal taste/hearing etc.
 Just my subjective input on this.


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> I'll say the ATE has a similar signature to the IM-50




Thanks!


----------



## kenboy

Any ideas on the kzed9 I've just ordered some and wanted to know owners of them how good are they compared to say ttpod e1 or the havi, tighter heavy bass with detail , or more balanced also do these ed9 come with replacement filters I've heard they have a selection for tuning any thoughts ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL Very true. I do prefer slightly v-shaped iems, and jazz certainly isn't one of my primary genres. I do listen to random jazz stations often at work though, and find the ATE a little to sedate. They are wonderful with female jazz vocalists. I'll give them that. They just lack that bit of energy I like in upbeat pieces.


----------



## 1clearhead

twinacstacks said:


> I know they are not KZ, but has anyone heard or seen These:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/K3003-Ring-Iron-Headphones-Fever-HIFI-Sound-Quality-Move-Iron-Unit-DIY-Third-Frequency-HIFI-In/1825606_32433070383.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id2=ae_sellercrm_mail_template_1_en_US_2015-08-15&rowan_msg_id=8672SELLERCRM_50217$4f76324257ef4b8a8b39c93ed5ec9930
> 
> ...


 
 The maker goes by two names "****" or "Feel Audio" and I do have them in black. They are an excellent replica of the original AKG K30003(i). They are my top 3-way hybrid. Since this is the KZ thread just "PM" me for more information. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


arsis said:


> Someone mentioned a few pages back that ATE and IM-50 sounded alike. I was just wondering if anyone else thought the same. I enjoy the im-50. Not my favorite but I use them fairly often. ED10 arrived Friday but I have not had a chance to listen yet. Hopefully I'll get a couple of hours with them today.


 
 According to those that own or heard both, that is correct.
  


hisoundfi said:


> I'll say the ATE has a similar signature to the IM-50


 
 +1


----------



## Arsis

1clearhead said:


> The maker goes by two names "****" or "Feel Audio" and I do have them in black. They are an excellent replica of the original AKG K30003(i). They are my top 3-way hybrid. Since this is the KZ thread just "PM" me for more information. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> According to those that own or heard both, that is correct.
> 
> +1


Thanks. In that case I'll skip it.


----------



## Lohb

ED10 just arrived from China. Think it took 7 days.
 Will run them in couple of days before giving them a proper listen.
  
 Like the low profile in the ears. Should not come out easily.
  
 EDIT :
  
 Finding I cannot get at the low-end due to the treble being so strident/forward on a quick listening that i'm having to listen at a lower volume = fatiguing.
 Does not have the detail of ED9 which I knew going in, but it also does not have that rich tonality of ED gold nozzle either, almost a dull presentation.
  
 See how they go at around 100 hours but looking like a 'gift onwards' rather than a keeper.


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> *ATE is best when listened with neutral open/spacious sounding source gear. *


 
 Yup, agreed, when I use ATE on my PCM2704 dac which is far more neutral than any other source I have ATE shines, on my phone I prefer the brass ED9 though, so I guess I prefer a kinda Neutral audio signature with a bit forward mids.


----------



## kenboy

I just ordered ed10 is there enough bass that is say not only sub bass but a satisfactory thud from the bass or are they more balanced the reason I ask is there seems to be so many different models I've even ordered ed3 model to see / hear the difference are the in ears say up there with something like the shures ? Or can the ed10 be described as more neutral ? Just looking for something with bite in the bass but no loss of detail or separation , almost a slight v shaped sound but with out losing the detail and not sharp treble , any thoughts ?


----------



## kenboy

Hi there people ken here in the UK any ideas on kz ed10'anyine own them are they good as in fit sound quality bass extension , only got some ttpod e 1 but want something with biting bass but not bloated and detail with a reasonable presence when listening have pulled the trigger on kz ed10 but can't find much info or users to determine whAt they'll sound like or what's even I the box ? Any help will be gratefully received .


----------



## kenboy

wijnands said:


> ok...
> 
> 
> What is is this then?
> ...


That's very similar to the betron earphones .


----------



## TwinACStacks

lohb said:


> ED10 just arrived from China. Think it took 7 days.
> Will run them in couple of days before giving them a proper listen.
> 
> Like the low profile in the ears. Should not come out easily.
> ...


 





 If You don't have any Bass and the Treble is TOO strident, something is very wrong. Are You getting a good fit/ Seal? OTB these sound very good, albeit Loose and Huge BASS. They are ANYTHING but lacking in Bass. As burn-in progresses they become Flatter in EQ and the Bass tightens up considerably. Also any bleed between different frequencies all but disappears. They sound best to my ears with wide-bore tips. Throw those Blue things away, they are NOT it. Use Senn, JVC, or Auvio Tips.
  
 Are you sure they are Genuine ED10's?
  
 This has been my experience with 2 Pairs of them now. (I'm currently at about 40 hours burn in on my wife's pair). So I've had a chance not only to Observe the changes over a 200 hour period, but to compare 2 Pairs One with +200 Hours VS 1 OTB. I'm fairly confident of my observations.
  
 Either that, or I suffer from the worst case of Brain Burn-in in history.
  








 TWIN
  








 TWIN


----------



## Lohb

twinacstacks said:


> If You don't have any Bass and the Treble is TOO strident, something is very wrong. Are You getting a good fit/ Seal? OTB these sound very good, albeit Loose and Huge BASS. They are ANYTHING but lacking in Bass. As burn-in progresses they become Flatter in EQ and the Bass tightens up considerably. Also any bleed between different frequencies all but disappears. They sound best to my ears with wide-bore tips. Throw those Blue things away, they are NOT it. Use Senn, JVC, or Auvio Tips.
> 
> Are you sure they are Genuine ED10's?
> 
> ...


 

 I mean I can't turn the volume up matched to ED9 to get at the bass as the treble for my ears is too bitey.


----------



## TwinACStacks

lohb said:


> I mean I can't turn the volume up matched to ED9 to get at the bass as the treble for my ears is too bitey.


 





 Like I said something isn't right. The ED9 has FAR more Treble especially with the Gold filters, it's WAY over the top for me. That Treble peak may just disappear though with burn in. Check them every 50 hours, but just briefly for an assessment.
  
 FWIW I noticed little change after 150 Hours.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

What's happening with KZ ANV? Only 3 shops on AliEx selling them.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> What's happening with KZ ANV? Only 3 shops on AliEx selling them.




Old model. Maybe they've been discontinued? Hope not!


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> What's happening with KZ ANV? Only 3 shops on AliEx selling them.


 
 I ordered the ANV and received CM9 which are super bassy, I was told by the seller that the ANV was discontinued but he also said the ANV & CM9 were the same so take it for what it's worth.
 I love my ED9 so much that I'm not even gonna bother with the ANV...plus I have 2 pairs of ED10 and a pair of ED-SE on the way!


----------



## Ruben123

cadcam said:


> I ordered the ANV and received CM9 which are super bassy, I was told by the seller that the ANV was discontinued but he also said the ANV & CM9 were the same so take it for what it's worth.
> I love my ED9 so much that I'm not even gonna bother with the ANV...plus I have 2 pairs of ED10 and a pair of ED-SE on the way!


 

 Dang.


----------



## hoshiyomi

I ordered anv from aliexpress lately and got the real thing, so perhaps it would be helpful of you were to post the name of that seller so people can avoid.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hoshiyomi said:


> I ordered anv from aliexpress lately and got the real thing, so perhaps it would be helpful of you were to post the name of that seller so people can avoid.




+1


----------



## Arsis

ED10 initial impressions... whoah!  Eight bucks! Are you kidding me? OTB I'm impressed. Looking forward to hearing how they burn in. I'm listening to Radio Moscow right now. Its trippy jam rock. These are surprisingly articulate and spacious. This album has a raw kind of production but lots of panning and movement. The drummer is busy with ghost notes and quick fills. The ed10 handles it beautifully. From nasty psychedelic guitars to acoustic and slide. It all sounds natural and clear. The bass is tight and just the right level . Same for the treble. Cymbals are well defined and crisp. Vocals are natural with no sibilance detected. Very, very impressed so far. I'm going to move on to some edm next to check out sub-bass extension.


----------



## 1clearhead

Does anyone own both the Havi's and the ATE's? And how does the soundstage compare? Are they more similar than different? After reading many reviews on both they started sounding very similar to me. Can anyone share some comments on both?


----------



## mrmoto050

wijnands said:


> ok...
> 
> What is is this then?
> 
> ...


 

 These are KZ ED2 Special edition. bought some off of Amazon along with the ATE's. They are a little brighter with nice bass extension, they compliment ATE SQ imho.


----------



## mrmoto050

1clearhead said:


> Does anyone own both the Havi's and the ATE's? And how does the soundstage compare? Are they more similar than different? After reading many reviews on both they started sounding very similar to me. Can anyone share some comments on both?


 

@1clearhead I haven't listened to my Havi's in a while. But the ATE is similar sound stage but has a warmer presentation. The Havi's may be a bit airier.


----------



## CADCAM

hoshiyomi said:


> I ordered anv from aliexpress lately and got the real thing, so perhaps it would be helpful of you were to post the name of that seller so people can avoid.


 
 Did so a few pages back but here it is again -
  
 For everyone's information I purchased the Kz ANV from Swallow(Shenzhen)Electronics Co.,Ltd   http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1413064
 and they sent me the CM9. It's super bassy and doesn't sound anything like the ANV according to what I've been reading on Head-Fi. The seller is saying that the two headphones are the same. 
  
 TwinACStacks has both and has verified they are not the same. Dispute started...lets see where this goes. 
 Too bad as I was really looking forward to hearing the actual ANV.


----------



## kenboy

arsis said:


> ED10 initial impressions... whoah!  Eight bucks! Are you kidding me? OTB I'm impressed. Looking forward to hearing how they burn in. I'm listening to Radio Moscow right now. Its trippy jam rock. These are surprisingly articulate and spacious. This album has a raw kind of production but lots of panning and movement. The drummer is busy with ghost notes and quick fills. The ed10 handles it beautifully. From nasty psychedelic guitars to acoustic and slide. It all sounds natural and clear. The bass is tight and just the right level . Same for the treble. Cymbals are well defined and crisp. Vocals are natural with no sibilance detected. Very, very impressed so far. I'm going to move on to some edm next to check out sub-bass extension.


Can't wait get mine ordered of that Amazon lot but gotta wait how long did yours take to come and as for bass out the box are they thumping or balanced ? Let me know how the edm sounds as I'm into that stuff mainly , hope they are as good as if not better than my ttpods or gran vela vjjb.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> Does anyone own both the Havi's and the ATE's? And how does the soundstage compare? Are they more similar than different? After reading many reviews on both they started sounding very similar to me. Can anyone share some comments on both?


 
 I had B3P1 and from psychoacoustic memory I would say they have about same size (large) soundstage but main difference in that part comes from highs presentation and bass(mainly sub-bass) quantity/presence. ATE have smooth highs but just between too "warm" and too "harsh" without losing details. I really liked B3P1 soundstage, separation and clarity but I just couldn`t enjoy sound because of little lack in bass and maybe even mids department - it just didn`t sound natural and didn`t have real life "touch of warmth". 
 Personally I would rate ATE over B3P1 but then again, I have sensitive hearing to highs and depends on source gear etc. also.
 Again, just my subjective input about it and this might not apply for others.
  


hisoundfi said:


> peter123 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have a link to that comparison?
> ...





> arsis said:
> 
> 
> > Someone mentioned a few pages back that ATE and IM-50 sounded alike. I was just wondering if anyone else thought the same. I enjoy the im-50. Not my favorite but I use them fairly often. ED10 arrived Friday but I have not had a chance to listen yet. Hopefully I'll get a couple of hours with them today.
> ...


 


 Haven`t heard IM-50 myself but was also interested about them some time ago and real quite a lot about them.
 According to what I have read, IM-50 should be more bassy than ATE because I find (with my neutral sounding gear) ATE bass neutral and not bleed into mids nor any way over-done. Maybe that`s why some rumors they sound more like IM-70 due to less bass? 
 Don`t know, I`m just assuming based on reviews.
  
  
 Btw, if everything goes well, then maybe tomorrow night I`ll post my ATE mod pics. I am very exited how this will turn up ;P Hope everything goes as planned.


----------



## Arsis

kenboy said:


> Can't wait get mine ordered of that Amazon lot but gotta wait how long did yours take to come and as for bass out the box are they thumping or balanced ? Let me know how the edm sounds as I'm into that stuff mainly , hope they are as good as if not better than my ttpods or gran vela vjjb.


They are surprisingly balanced. I'm hoping for better sub extension with burn in. Mine took 3 weeks for delivery.


----------



## TwinACStacks

arsis said:


> They are surprisingly balanced. I'm hoping for better sub extension with burn in. Mine took 3 weeks for delivery.


 






 Arsis, if it makes you feel any better they get MUCH Better with a few hundred hours on them. Read some previous posts of mine, I went into fairly good detail about my burn in experiences.
  
 $8 bucks..... SIMPLY AMAZING. ( I don't believe KZ intended for them to be this good for the price.)
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

What is even cooler is that the ED10's can take almost unlimited Volume and Bass boosting WITHOUT distorting or coming un-glued.
  
 ask me how I know.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Arsis

twinacstacks said:


> Arsis, if it makes you feel any better they get MUCH Better with a few hundred hours on them. Read some previous posts of mine, I went into fairly good detail about my burn in experiences.
> 
> $8 bucks..... SIMPLY AMAZING. ( I don't believe KZ intended for them to be this good for the price.)
> 
> TWIN


I saw your posts. I'm pretty happy with them already. I'm gonna pink noise them for a few days.


----------



## Arsis

twinacstacks said:


> What is even cooler is that the ED10's can take almost unlimited Volume and Bass boosting WITHOUT distorting or coming un-glued.
> 
> ask me how I know.
> 
> TWIN


Haha! I left a pair of cans (SennHD439) blaring edm for about 6 hours one night. My computer feeds my receiver via Fiio e10 SPDiF. I turned on the receiver and cranked the speakers for a party. I turned the computer volume all the way up not realizing the 439s were still plugged in and the Fiio was on about 9 (I do realize that's improper gain structure  )When I turned the receiver off and heard the cans bottoming out I just knew they were done for. They sound great! More bass extension than ever. I don't recommend this method but it worked for them. I was shocked (and yes I would have replaced them). The e10 isn't real powerful but they were really loud. If I had a little more powerful amp it would have cooked them.


----------



## Lohb

twinacstacks said:


> What is even cooler is that the ED10's can take almost unlimited Volume and Bass boosting WITHOUT distorting or coming un-glued.
> 
> ask me how I know.
> 
> ...


 

 Just read a recent article link on this site on IEMs vs cans. Been noticing my ears are sore since starting to use IEMs after a long while.
  
 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/earbud-increases-hidden-hearing-loss-risk-study-article-1.2230945


----------



## 1clearhead

mrmoto050 said:


> @1clearhead I haven't listened to my Havi's in a while. But the ATE is similar sound stage but has a warmer presentation. The Havi's may be a bit airier.


 
  
 This is great to hear 'cause I really love the wide presentations of my ATE's. Thanks.
  


coil said:


> I had B3P1 and from psychoacoustic memory I would say they have about same size (large) soundstage but main difference in that part comes from highs presentation and bass(mainly sub-bass) quantity/presence. ATE have smooth highs but just between too "warm" and too "harsh" without losing details. I really liked B3P1 soundstage, separation and clarity but I just couldn`t enjoy sound because of little lack in bass and maybe even mids department - it just didn`t sound natural and didn`t have real life "touch of warmth".
> Personally I would rate ATE over B3P1 but then again, I have sensitive hearing to highs and depends on source gear etc. also.
> Again, just my subjective input about it and this might not apply for others.


 
  
 I always hesitated in buying the Havi's for the same reason you stated. Most owners state also that these are power hungry IEM's -needs more power to drive them. I really love my ATE's for there tuning and separation of instruments and the vocals are "scary live". Thanks for your reply.


----------



## Lohb

ED9 run off any amp with opa627 may be a great pairing. I had a chip along those lines and it just opened up everything at lower volumes without spinning the SQ in a worse way IMO.


----------



## Enuma-elis

Anyone using KZ with ihifi 770c? My C3 died so I pulled a trigger on another not-user friendly player . Waiting for it to come.


----------



## CoiL

ATE mod finished! Will try different nozzles and setup tomorrow but atm listening with ED9 gold nozzles + open back grill-mod + cable change... won`t comment much atm but SQ is marvelous! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Will take better pics tomorrow in sun/daylight, it`s night in here.


----------



## kr0mka

Hey guys! Just ordered KZ ED10. At the moment I'm using Brainwavz R1 paired with Fiio X1 and I think I'm lacking bass. Will the ED10 be more bassy?


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> ATE mod finished! Will try different nozzles and setup tomorrow but atm listening with ED9 gold nozzles + open back grill-mod + cable change... won`t comment much atm but SQ is marvelous!
> Will take better pics tomorrow in sun/daylight, it`s night in here.




Sounds impressive! Always love seeing what you manage to do with your mods.


----------



## SWLIU

someone posted these pics of ZN1 on baidu.com:

 http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3957782401?pid=73970020926&see_lz=1#73970020926


----------



## RedTwilight

1clearhead said:


> This is great to hear 'cause I really love the wide presentations of my ATE's. Thanks.
> 
> 
> I always hesitated in buying the Havi's for the same reason you stated. Most owners state also that these are power hungry IEM's -needs more power to drive them. I really love my ATE's for there tuning and separation of instruments and the vocals are "scary live". Thanks for your reply.


 
  
 Well it's not that the Havis don't work at all but you may have to crank up the volume if you're using a phone. Otherwise an inexpensive amp like the Topping NX-1 will do the trick already.


----------



## Lohb

Run in my ED10s with a burn-in loop for 12 hours = to about 200, will see how they are later today. May run the loop again if no change. Testing amped off a Cayin C5 and un-amped.
  
 Any of you guys finding any particular entry-level portable amp goes well with ED9/10/ATE ?
  
 I need to hunt down the sensitivity of 9s and 10s online.


----------



## ayaflo

The KZ ATE has reached the post office, will receive it in a couple of hours from now. Hope it lives up to MH1c standards.


----------



## CoiL

Spoiler: Warning: may cause inearrection!


----------



## kenboy

So has anyone got the ed9 I've just pulled the trigger on them wondering on how good these budget jobs can be also ordered the ed3 as a bassy pair , has anyone got experience with the ed9 as in terms of sq are they more balanced or bass orientated ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Wow! Great job CoiL! Those look intense 

kenboy The ED9 are way bassier than the ED3. You can find a ton of ED9 impressions looking back a bit in the thread


----------



## codearm2

swliu said:


> someone posted these pics of ZN1 on baidu.com:
> 
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3957782401?pid=73970020926&see_lz=1#73970020926


 
 that is truly georgeus but it cost like hell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They're still accepting PO right?


----------



## kenboy

b9scrambler said:


> Wow! Great job CoiL! Those look intense
> 
> kenboy The ED9 are way bassier than the ED3. You can find a ton of ED9 impressions looking back a bit in the thread


Do you own some as Ive just orders them only thing I'm worried about is the fakers faking .


----------



## Arsis

lohb said:


> Run in my ED10s with a burn-in loop for 12 hours = to about 200.


? Never heard of that.. What is the loop?


----------



## Lohb

arsis said:


> ? Never heard of that.. What is the loop?


 
 Isotek


----------



## SSSN

Waiting eagerly for my ED10 and spare ATE. But I got a question.
  
 Is the AliExpress website the only way to track my order? I have never seen a tracking number going HN......AE. China Post doesn't find it.


----------



## eaglearrow

sssn said:


> Waiting eagerly for my ED10 and spare ATE. But I got a question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Track your shipment here: http://www.17track.net/


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> Spoiler: Warning: may cause inearrection!


 
 Atm, trying ED9 brass nozzles without grills (shortened length from grill end). I was assuming that due to nozzle breathing holes bass will be lost cause ATE itself already has breathing ports but surprise surprise - no! By initial impression might even sound better than ED9 gold nozzles, Testing will go on


----------



## Lohb

coil said:


> Atm, trying ED9 brass nozzles without grills (shortened length from grill end). I was assuming that due to nozzle breathing holes bass will be lost cause ATE itself already has breathing ports but surprise surprise - no! By initial impression might even sound better than ED9 gold nozzles, Testing will go on


 

 Yes, that was what i was saying before unless reading wrong. People were telling me to SEAL the bass ports to get more bass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

kenboy said:


> Do you own some as Ive just orders them only thing I'm worried about is the fakers faking .




I own those plus 8 other KZ iems. Just look back within the last 10-15 pages for my shootout post. Impressions are there.

The ED3 aren't bassy but the bass that is there is of excellent quality: very quick and punchy. If you are treble sensitive you might want to try out foam tips with them, or make a filter mod. They're a bit bright compared to most of KZ's stuff.


----------



## CoiL

lohb said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Atm, trying ED9 brass nozzles without grills (shortened length from grill end). I was assuming that due to nozzle breathing holes bass will be lost cause ATE itself already has breathing ports but surprise surprise - no! By initial impression might even sound better than ED9 gold nozzles, Testing will go on
> ...


 

 With stock ATE, yes, closing ports will increase bass and punch noticeably. With brass nozzles, despite making airflow more free, bass isn`t reduced or boosted. Atm I think it seems to make bass/percussion tighter. Also highs clarity and micro-details are improved littlebit.


----------



## SSSN

eaglearrow said:
			
		

> Track your shipment here: http://www.17track.net/


 
 Does not work:


----------



## mebaali

sssn said:


> Does not work:


 
 It appears yours may be coming through Hongkong post.
  
 check this link if it is of any help http://app3.hongkongpost.hk/CGI/mt/enquiry.jsp
  
 (FWIW, the sellers from china has the facility to generate tracking number much before depositing/handing over the goods to the concern postal service for shipping. In my experience with them, more often than not, the tracking number that they provide starts to work only after about 4 days)
  
 (Edit: Just message the seller and query about the postal service that he/she has used for your product. Some Aliexpress sellers are notorious for using very obscure non-standard postal services to cut the cost)


----------



## ayaflo

So I got 2 earphones for the price of one. The KZ ATE black version w/ mic and another one which I can't seem to identify. Photos up, please help me identify them. I used Spiral dots and stock tips for listening.
  
 Initial impressions out of my phone with 320 kbps MP3 and FLAC files - the ATE is super smooth, Euphonic, loads of bass and excellent male & female vocal timbre. Not much air up top but not clustered either. Resolution is not the best but hurray for the price! the treble is kept in check with no peaks but I will listen more to identify if there is a roll-off. I see myself enjoying them more than the Titans. The stage is wide and circular enough to depict a recording without much flaw. The stage is also more filled in front to back and have better immediacy, which is something I missed with the Titans. Again Titans have a more artificial sounding stage but wider and slightly off timbre vocals with a lot of missing detail in the lower midrange. I felt the sub-bass a bit boomy with the ATE but there was no lack of speed or bloat.
  
 The unidentified earphone is more balanced across the spectrum with nothing really popping out. The sound is not very refined and the treble has a small peak before eventual roll-off. I believe its more strident in the treble aspect and trying to do so much but limited due to the driver. I wouldn't say they have good fidelity but the drivers are slightly fast and the resolution is average.


----------



## Charliemotta

ayaflo said:


> So I got 2 earphones for the price of one. The KZ ATE black version w/ mic and another one which I can't seem to identify. Photos up, please help me identify them. I used Spiral dots and stock tips for listening.
> 
> Initial impressions out of my phone with 320 kbps MP3 and FLAC files - the ATE is super smooth, Euphonic, loads of bass and excellent male & female vocal timbre. Not much air up top but not clustered either. Resolution is not the best but hurray for the price! the treble is kept in check with no peaks but I will listen more to identify if there is a roll-off. I see myself enjoying them more than the Titans. The stage is wide and circular enough to depict a recording without much flaw. The stage is also more filled in front to back and have better immediacy, which is something I missed with the Titans. Again Titans have a more artificial sounding stage but wider and slightly off timbre vocals with a lot of missing detail in the lower midrange. I felt the sub-bass a bit boomy with the ATE but there was no lack of speed or bloat.
> 
> The unidentified earphone is more balanced across the spectrum with nothing really popping out. The sound is not very refined and the treble has a small peak before eventual roll-off. I believe its more strident in the treble aspect and trying to do so much but limited due to the driver. I wouldn't say they have good fidelity but the drivers are slightly fast and the resolution is average.


 
 That my friend is the KZ-RX...this is what mine looks like.


----------



## Djinnenjous

Since I'm e joking my ED9s way too much for a sub-$20 IEM I pulled the trigger on ED10s after having read B9Scrambler's shootout. Hopefully they'll live up to my expectations--but for $10, international shipping included (HOW!?) it'll be hard to justify faulting them for anything short of a defect.

I'll try to remember to post impressions once I've played around with them for a while.


----------



## EISENbricher

Aya, pls also get ED10. Absolute beast! Read past few pages for more info on ED10. They are even cheaper than ATE.


----------



## ayaflo

eisenbricher said:


> Aya, pls also get ED10. Absolute beast! Read past few pages for more info on ED10. They are even cheaper than ATE.


 
  
 Hi Eisen, thanks but from the impressions from you and others of the ED10 I conclude it has a V-shaped sound? That I am not a fan of at all.


----------



## B9Scrambler

djinnenjous said:


> Since I'm e joking my ED9s way too much for a sub-$20 IEM I pulled the trigger on ED10s after having read B9Scrambler's shootout. Hopefully they'll live up to my expectations--but for $10, international shipping included (HOW!?) it'll be hard to justify faulting them for anything short of a defect.
> 
> I'll try to remember to post impressions once I've played around with them for a while.




The ED10 are great. If you don't like them I would be pretty surprised. They're just too clean and cohesive sounding for a ~10 dollar iem


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> The ED10 are great. If you don't like them I would be pretty surprised. They're just too clean and cohesive sounding for a ~10 dollar iem


 
 I paid $16.92...for 2 pairs! Punch far above there price point.


----------



## Enuma-elis

coil said:


> Atm, trying ED9 brass nozzles without grills (shortened length from grill end). I was assuming that due to nozzle breathing holes bass will be lost cause ATE itself already has breathing ports but surprise surprise - no! By initial impression might even sound better than ED9 gold nozzles, Testing will go on




These are really really beautiful Coil.


----------



## bhazard

The ED10's are definitely the best. Should become an $8 benchmark when they become more known. I like them better than the Xiaomi Pistons, both v2 and 3.


----------



## CADCAM

I just received my EDSE and they came in a cardboard box with a sticker that says KZ_EDR1...purchased them from the "Official Flagship Store" on Aliexpress.
 Anyone bought the EDSE and can comment on packaging vs the ED2? I thought they would come in a plastic case like ED9 & ED10...


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I just received my EDSE and they came in a cardboard box with a sticker that says KZ_EDR1...purchased them from the "Official Flagship Store" on Aliexpress.
> Anyone bought the EDSE and can comment on packaging vs the ED2? I thought they would come in a plastic case like ED9 & ED10...


 
 Mine came in a basic cardboard box. In fact, all my KZ iems have except the ATE and ED10. My ED9 is the Tuna variant so it came in a slightly fancier cardboard box, lol.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> Mine came in a basic cardboard box. In fact, all my KZ iems have except the ATE and ED10. My ED9 is the Tuna variant so it came in a slightly fancier cardboard box, lol.


 

 My ED9 & ED10 came in the plastic "badge" shaped case with the insert that holds the spare tips.
 Did your EDSE have a sticker that said EDR1??
 BTW they sound great but I just did a quick listen and they are on the burn-in station now. Just would like to know if I have the ED2 or EDSE.
 I think CoiL mentioned a EDR1 awhile back.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Sorry, missed that part. Mine had no stickers at all actually. When I ordered them I picked up the Micro Ring at the same time, my first two KZs :3 Had no idea which was in which box (although thinking back weight should have been a dead giveaway, lol), so the opening process was exciting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Edit: From what I've gathered about the EDse, ED2 and EDr1, they all sound the same, if not almost the same. As long as you enjoy yours, thats the most important part!


----------



## chavez

cadcam said:


> I just received my EDSE and they came in a cardboard box with a sticker that says KZ_EDR1...purchased them from the "Official Flagship Store" on Aliexpress.
> Anyone bought the EDSE and can comment on packaging vs the ED2? I thought they would come in a plastic case like ED9 & ED10...


 
 Mine came in a box like this.Tho seller didnt say what version was it (did not buy from the aliexpress).It only says KZ and chineese letters.
  
  
 Front:
  

  
 Back:
  

  
 Inside:


----------



## Lohb

Mine came in the shield shaped plastic box.


----------



## CADCAM

lohb said:


> Mine came in the shield shaped plastic box.


 
 EDSE? 
 Here's how mine came~


 Sorry guys...don't know why they came in upside down


----------



## chavez

cadcam said:


> EDSE?
> Here's how mine came~
> 
> 
> Sorry guys...don't know why they came in upside down


 
  
 Mine are ED2.Is your nozzle red?


----------



## CADCAM

chavez said:


> Mine are ED2.Is your nozzle red?


 

  

 here's a couple pics of mine.


----------



## chavez

cadcam said:


> here's a couple pics of mine.


 
  
 Yup,EDSE's  .


----------



## B9Scrambler

bhazard said:


> The ED10's are definitely the best. Should become an $8 benchmark when they become more known. I like them better than the Xiaomi Pistons, both v2 and 3.




I'm in complete agreement


----------



## Djinnenjous

b9scrambler said:


> I'm in complete agreement


 
 Respectfully, an $8 benchmark doesn't make them sound to terribly impressive to the uninitiated. What I'm hoping for is an $8 IEM that sets the < $50 benchmark.
  
 My E10s should be here in a few more days and I'll be able to put them to the test.


----------



## B9Scrambler

djinnenjous said:


> Respectfully, an $8 benchmark doesn't make them sound to terribly impressive to the uninitiated. What I'm hoping for is an $8 IEM that sets the < $50 benchmark.
> 
> My E10s should be here in a few more days and I'll be able to put them to the test.




I agree, and that's what makes them ever more impressive!!! Spooky 

I suspect you will enjoy them. They are much better than their meager price suggests.


----------



## Djinnenjous

b9scrambler said:


> I agree, and that's what makes them ever more impressive!!! Spooky
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, the ED9s are leagues better than their price suggests they are; and you said the E10s are even better. In fact, I'm pretty sure you ranked them like four steps apart on your Top Ten KZ list. To say that my expectations have been set high is an understatement.
  
 If I don't like them I'm demanding my refund from _you._ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Unfortunately, since I just got my HE-500s today I'm afraid I'm currently predisposed toward unfairly judging every headphone I own by how they hold up to these beauties.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Outside of the CM9 and R3, everything else on that list is exceptionally close in performance. I would have rated the ED9 (and EDse for that matter) higher, I just don't like their treble presentation. Purely personal preference.

The ED10 is much more refined in that regard, almost on the level of the ATE. I think the ATE has the cleanest most well defined treble of all the KZ iems. It's not thin, splashy, or uncontrolled. The ED10 shares this trait for the most part.


----------



## CoiL

bhazard said:


> The *ED10's are definitely the best*. Should become an $8 benchmark when they become more known. I like them better than the Xiaomi Pistons, both v2 and 3.


 
 Would be nice if You point out what source gear, file quality and music was used for Your subjective opinion? Compared to what other IEM`s?
  


enuma-elis said:


> These are really really beautiful Coil.


 
 Thanks! What`s good about modding - You can make whatever and however You like and this design was long time in my mind, basically from the moment I saw ATE on sale/thread.
 May sound egoistic but I like it more than many CIEM designs (not on the level of wizard of course) if I consider only looks. I also changed angle of ATE according to my ear-canal angle and grinded down black housing for lower profile and made backplates also according to my ear shape which makes them also easily most comfy and lightweight IEM I have worn so far.
  


coil said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: may cause inearrection!
> ...


 
 After some testing I decided to go and stick with brass nozzles. Gold nozzles seemed to make mids tinybit recessed and overall sound slightly V-shaped.
 With brass nozzles sound is very balanced and neutral with littlebit warmth. Highs (especially cymbals and percussion) got clearer and more pronounced, mids stayed same and bass/kick got also littlebit tighter and cleaner. Micro-details got also improved. I can now hear some guitar and percussion details more easily than before.
 Easiest way to describe resulting sound would be to say it`s lovechild of ANV and ATE. Really enjoying this IEM now


----------



## Currawong

coil said:


> bhazard said:
> 
> 
> > The *ED10's are definitely the best*. Should become an $8 benchmark when they become more known. I like them better than the Xiaomi Pistons, both v2 and 3.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for pointing this out. IMO the music and loudness are the two most critical factors. To give an obvious example: A person listening quietly to classical will have radically different impressions to someone listening loud to club music.


----------



## Djinnenjous

What is this "quiet music" you speak of, and why does it even exist?


----------



## B9Scrambler

djinnenjous said:


> What is this "quiet music" you speak of, and why does it even exist?




Haha...so snarky.


----------



## EISENbricher

Best = Best for self
  
 Please consider these hidden words as they always cause lot of stir and this has happened many times before.
 Either that should be mentioned explicitely, or should be assumed by the reader each time. No hassle : )


----------



## r2muchstuff

The current KZ SE are not the same as they were back in Sept./Oct. of last year.  I ordered them form the then "KZ Official Store" and the current SEs from the current "KZ Official Store".
  
 The older SEs do not have the red mesh capping the nozzle.  They are capped with a sliver mesh that is courser than the current red mesh.
  
 New set is on burn, will compare SQ to older set once burn is done and I find some quite time.
  
 All of them were listed as KZ EDSE online and in the email order info.
  
 Interesting 
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## CADCAM

r2muchstuff said:


> The current KZ SE are not the same as they were back in Sept./Oct. of last year.  I ordered them form the then "KZ Official Store" and the current SEs from the current "KZ Official Store".
> 
> The older SEs do not have the red mesh capping the nozzle.  They are capped with a sliver mesh that is courser than the current red mesh.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting...I ordered mine from the Kz Official Flagship Store http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152 and received the red nozzle screens. Would like to here your impressions of the differences. It seems there is an ED2, EDSE & EDR1??? Are they the same?


----------



## chavez

cadcam said:


> Interesting...I ordered mine from the Kz Official Flagship Store http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152 and received the red nozzle screens. Would like to here your impressions of the differences. It seems there is an ED2, EDSE & EDR1??? Are they the same?




Wokei said Ed2 and EDSE sound same.(he cant hear the difference).

On another note, where is master Wokei?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

The *KZ LP3* is a beautifully built Headphone.  I had to take a few pictures.  
  
  
 Sound signature is interesting.  Very open.  I am messing with these first, before I post my full review.
  
  

  

  
  

  
 ..


----------



## B9Scrambler

I've been in debate about getting them for months. They do look fantastic...


----------



## BloodyPenguin

b9scrambler said:


> I've been in debate about getting them for months. They do look fantastic...


 
 Bass can be lacking, depending on fit.  Speaking of fit, these are a little tight and the earcups do not swivel at all, but you can bend them.
  
 I'm going to see if I can mess with a few different earpads too, to see if I can change the very open sound signature.  I might even say, too open.
  
 I feel like they would benefit from some damping somewhere.  For $20 or less though, they are a fun headphone to have, play with.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Thanks for the impressions. I'll give em a pass for now. Not a huge fan of headphones in the first place, so an alright pair just doesn't have a place in my collection. IEMs on the other hand....that's a different story, haha.


----------



## mochill

Hows the midrange on the lp3 justin


----------



## bhazard

coil said:


> Would be nice if You point out what source gear, file quality and music was used for Your subjective opinion? Compared to what other IEM`s?


 
 Compared to other KZ models. I thought that would be picked up on since this is a KZ thread.
  
 Source is your average everyday smartphone or whatever you use that you don't do any serious listening on. It makes absolutely no sense to spend hundreds on source gear just to listen to such inexpensive IEMs.
  
 Geek Out V2+, 24/96+ FLAC or DSD is used when I need it.


----------



## Djinnenjous

bhazard said:


> It makes absolutely no sense to spend hundreds on source gear just to listen to such inexpensive IEMs.


 
 As I read this I'm sitting here listening to $500 planars driven by a $200 amp, with my $350 DX90 on which I spent another $250 USD for a custom hardware mod.
  
 And when I came home today the first thing I did was look excitedly in the mailbox to see if my $8 E10s had arrived yet.


----------



## B9Scrambler

djinnenjous said:


> As I read this I'm sitting here listening to $500 planars driven by a $200 amp, with my $350 DX90 on which I spent another $250 USD for a custom hardware mod.
> 
> And when I came home today the first thing I did was look excitedly in the mailbox to see if my $8 E10s had arrived yet.


 
  
 Cause KZ $#!T is the Schiit! *drops mic*


----------



## CADCAM

> It makes absolutely no sense to spend hundreds on source gear just to listen to such inexpensive IEMs.


 
 I am sitting in my dedicated headphone room (just completed!!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 listening to my spanking new Kz EDse through a Beresford Capella amp which is being fed from an Bushmaster MKII DAC which is itself being fed from a NAD C542. They sound fantastic! Tried them straight from my Galaxy S4...not so good.


----------



## CADCAM

Funny follow up...I have HD600's, DT880's, K612's & ATH-AD900 and couldn't wait to fire up my little Kz EDse's. There's something about spending so little and getting so much. I love my ED9's and ED10. The EDse sounds great also playing some Jean-Luc Ponty...detail, nice lows, this little ****s doing a lot of things right for 8 dollars!


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> Galaxy S4...not so good.


 
 Yep, the lower SQ difference just off a phone is easy to hear, as is some OK/very good equipment upstream. $8 scaling IEMs !


----------



## Djinnenjous

As a general principle, better gear makes good gear sound even better. Nothing will turn Apple's pack-in iPod earbuds into HD650s; however, jacking them into an audiophile DAP _will _bring out the absolute best they could ever be capable of. If your $8 IEMs already sound like they cost $50 (or more) then of course it's worth pairing them with higher-quality tech.
  
 We're talking about refining quality products here, not polishing turds.


----------



## encompassment

has anyone tried to re-wire the ed9? one side of my channels is damaged and the sound cuts off and i need to adjust the cable to regain a signal. how would i open the assembly without damaging any components?


----------



## Chief Stringer

bloodypenguin said:


> The *KZ LP3* is a beautifully built Headphone.  I had to take a few pictures.
> 
> 
> Sound signature is interesting.  Very open.  I am messing with these first, before I post my full review.
> ...




Rasta colours on the headband is a nice touch


----------



## CoiL

bhazard said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Would be nice if You point out what source gear, file quality and music was used for Your subjective opinion? Compared to what other IEM`s?
> ...


 
 Why not?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For example SQ difference between typical smartphone vs. DX50 (even unmodded/stock FW) is pretty huge.
 Does price tag make IEM great and justifies buying better source gear more than cheap IEM`s like KZ? Do You think that higher price makes IEM scale better?
 I think You have gotten it wrong way, source gear is basis of SQ and can give very good result even with cheap IEMs like KZ.
 This is head-fi not some smartphone forum. Your subjective claim that ED10 is the best (using smartphone as source) can be misleading to many who use better gear for listening.
 That`s why I asked about what was used to make such claim. Now I understand better what Your subjective opinion means and how to take it from my point of view (my source gear etc.).
 Your impression about ED10 isn`t useful for me but can be useful for those who use similar source gear.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

mochill said:


> Hows the midrange on the lp3 justin




Mids seem slightly recessed. Though they are so open sounding, that everything seems recessed. Think I will try modding them. The drivers seem like they are very good, but need some slight tweaks in damping and air flow.

..


----------



## H20Fidelity

Big thanks to one Australian member who loaned me KZ - ED9 for a week. I mainly borrowed ED9 for some website photos to tinker around with. I was quite shocked at the build, packaging, accessories (complete kit) for just $10 roughly, I hadn't had a chance to test them until tonight. I pulled out my iBasso DX50 plugged in ED9 and was really impressed, absolutely impressed how clean and relatively detailed they're for under $20.
  
 You guys are getting it real good with these little gems.


----------



## mochill

bloodypenguin said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Hows the midrange on the lp3 justin
> ...


 
 thanks bro , very open sounds great. I bet 500hrs will make it epic


----------



## theuprising

coil said:


> Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've been meaning to ask you that but I assumed you modded the sound of your iem's or something.
  
 Though you do go against conventional wisdom, in several ways I agree with you, moving away from a smartphone makes WORLDS of difference in sound quality, even if you're just using stock Apple earbuds. But the iBasso DX50 is definitely not an entry level DAC/amp, and you're listening to KZ, which are impressive, but still entry level fuzzy IEM's. I would think you would get more bang for your buck if you moved up to $60 or $100 price bracket even if you had to downgrade your DAC.


----------



## ricericebabey

I know this isn't really for this thread... I was just wondering if any of y'all have tried the bluedio Bluetooth earbudsand if they're any good?


----------



## Djinnenjous

theuprising said:


> I've been meaning to ask you that but I assumed you modded the sound of your iem's or something.
> 
> Though you do go against conventional wisdom, in several ways I agree with you, moving away from a smartphone makes WORLDS of difference in sound quality, even if you're just using stock Apple earbuds. But the iBasso DX50 is definitely not an entry level DAC/amp, and you're listening to KZ, which are impressive, but still entry level fuzzy IEM's. I would think you would get more bang for your buck if you moved up to $60 or $100 price bracket even if you had to downgrade your DAC.


 
 I know you weren't talking to me, but I'll chime in here.
  
 I've been robbed twice of audio gear: once, I had my DX90 stolen in New York City; the other time someone thiefed nearly every set of IEMs I owned along with custom cables and my _replacement _DX90. (That cost me nearly three grand.) I've since decided never to lose anything to a thief that I cannot shrug off. I now own a third DX90, hardware modded, and it was quite an investment. It almost never leaves my home and when it does it is always on my person. Likewise, I have some expensive headphones and moderately pricey IEMs; however, they all live in my bedroom.
  
 When I'm on the go I plug my FiiO X1 into my Topping NX1 and pair it with something like my ED9s or B3P1s. If I get jacked I'm out somewhere between $200 and $250—which, while unpleasant, is a far cry from the $620 I'd lose if it were my DX90 and Titan 1s. And since I have all of that nicer gear laying around anyway, why not pair it with the "cheap-o" stuff every once in a while and enjoy budget-fi for all it's worth? As in love as I am with my X2s and HE-500s even they would get boring quickly if they were all I ever listened to.


----------



## CoiL

> you're listening to KZ, which are impressive, but still entry level fuzzy IEM's. I would think you would get more bang for your buck if you moved up to $60 or $100 price bracket even if you had to downgrade your DAC.


 
 Don`t understand exactly what You mean about "fuzzy" but with my source gear and modifications I can`t even think word "fuzzy" about ATE
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Let me say this - modded DX50 + modded ATE is basically same good setup as my desktop setup with Fidelio X1 (check profile). And these are not only words but I`ve done A/B comparing. Though, should do it again since this last ATE mod sounds even better (previous comparison was done with grill-mod silver ATEs).
 Pretty impressive for ~10$ IEM vs. ~200$ over-ear headphone?!
 Yes, I would probably get some improvement in 60-100$ price range... but... like I have said before, when audiophile meets with musicality and what You hear is perfect for Yourself - I see no point moving "upwards". At some point it gets pointless. All that matters is personal subjective impression/opinion. And I do think "audiophile" market is filled with overpriced and over-hyped gear/opinions. I have done lot of reading impressions/reviews and IF I would move upwards, it would be probably Fidue A73... but... I really do not need it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 IMHSO


----------



## SSSN

I tested many, many sub $100 headphones and the ATE are easily among my favorites. Comparing them with the common, asian bang-for-buck recommendations:
  
 Pistons v2 are muddy bass bombers
 Pistons v3 sound hella confused and has harshly rolled off treble
  
 Vsonic IEMs are generally too bright and break way too easily.
  
 Havi B3 Pro 1 need a crapton of power and also have some QC issues.
  
 Soundmagic E10 are too dark and mellow.
  
 Don't know the Ostry KC06(A)
  
 Most of these are significantly more expensive than KZ IEMs as well and aren't even built much better.


----------



## CADCAM

I can think of many ways I'd describe my ED9's or ED10's but fuzzy is not one of them.
  
 BTW My Edse's are on the burn-in station but I can't help it...I keep taking them off and listening to them. I really enjoy them with more simple material as they get a little flustered with complex passages but they are an excellent value for the $.
  
 I ordered a second ED10 and ED9 for backup just in case they fail for some reason. Being so inexpensive it's a no brainer to me.
  
 My son has the Philips SHE3580 which I gave him and he tried the ED10... looks like I'll need to order another set cuz I haven't seem them since


----------



## Djinnenjous

cadcam said:


> I can think of many ways I'd describe my ED9's or ED10's but fuzzy is not one of them.
> 
> BTW My Edse's are on the burn-in station but I can't help it...I keep taking them off and listening to them. I really enjoy them with more simple material as they get a little flustered with complex passages but they are an excellent value for the $.
> 
> ...


 
 I also gave both of my older two pairs of SHE3580s after trying them out a while back and being really impressed. What's nuts about the ED10s (although I haven't received mine yet) is that even _with shipping _they cost less than the Philips do, right out of my local CVS pharmacy.


----------



## Lohb

> which are impressive, but still entry level fuzzy IEM's. I would think you would get more bang for your buck if you moved up to $60 or $100 price bracket even if you had to downgrade your DAC.


 
 Not fuzzy in the least (ED9/ED10) out my lowest source, my phone..next source up Macbook Air with Audirvana+  - 'very good' considering it is off the Cirrus DAC.
  
 So for someone on a budget, students etc. These IEMs are killer for the price.
  
 On another note, regarding my ED10, that really in-your-face treble has died down, still A|B'ing them vs ED9 but the one thing I notice with ED9 vs ED10 is the rich tonality on ED9/gold nozzles on my audio chain anyway. I think I'll be holding on to ED10 anyway for exercise vs gifting them on. But man o man, was that initial treble sound O.T.T.


----------



## Ruben123

Hey guys, since ANVs are being discontinued I want to know if I should get one of the last now they are still available.
  
 I love the ED9's creamy sound and also like the Havis, although its soundstage doesnt mean anything to me. Is the ANV a must-get for a cheap B3P1 sound? I hate shrill treble though, and for that I am not sure if the ANVs will be what Im looking for. Better isolation than ED9 would be nice too, do they offer that? Im after a flat - as - possible sound, prefer less over more treble as I said. I listen to many sorts of music, mostly classical, country/folk (Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen etc.).
  
 Could they be a Havi replacement (not a critical listener) and more important: how do I know if I get the older, less good ANV or the newer 2014 version that should be better?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> I can think of many ways I'd describe my ED9's or ED10's but fuzzy is not one of them.
> 
> BTW My Edse's are on the burn-in station but I can't help it...I keep taking them off and listening to them. I really enjoy them with more simple material as they get a little flustered with complex passages but they are an excellent value for the $.
> 
> ...


 

 ED9 must be great out the Bushmaster Mk2. Fairly natural presentation + depth/width through that DAC was great.


----------



## CADCAM

lohb said:


> ED9 must be great out the Bushmaster Mk2. Fairly natural presentation + depth/width through that DAC was great.


 

 I do use the BM with the Kz's as a DAC but I run them from the Capella amp. The Capella has a gain knob which I find helpful...the sound is surprisingly good. Without a doubt in my short IEM journey the Kz's have the best sq and presentation.


----------



## encompassment

i don't know if i have really bad luck or i got defective units but my ed9 and ed10 cables are not working. on the ed10 only high frequencies get thru and on the ed9 the left channel works half the time. im hoping someone here can help me get the ed10 units open. i don't want to damage the casing but i seriously need to replace that wire ! they appear to be made of metal with very little lip to get a utility knife into and work the edge to loosen the cover. em i going to have to resort to reordering or using power tools to get this thing to open? .. i know i should probably just replace the plug but i think that i might aswell do the whole cable .. since its only been two days since i got it and already this has happened .. i want to avoid more problems with the cable ..


----------



## Lohb

Loving my new set of ED9 out my Cayin C5. I actually melted my last pair due to opamp upgrade overload.
  
 Extreme burn-in.


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> I do use the BM with the Kz's as a DAC but I run them from the Capella amp. The Capella has a gain knob which I find helpful...the sound is surprisingly good. Without a doubt in my short IEM journey the Kz's have the best sq and presentation.


 

 Did Stan say "*SEND IT BACK*" if you had any issues at the start ?


----------



## raybone0566

lohb said:


> Loving my new set of ED9 out my Cayin C5. I actually melted my last pair due to opamp upgrade overload.
> 
> Extreme burn-in.


I've never heard of that before. Where did they melt?


----------



## Lohb

raybone0566 said:


> I've never heard of that before. Where did they melt?


 

 In my EARS.


----------



## raybone0566

lohb said:


> In my EARS.


Wow, that sounds very painful!


----------



## Trapok

encompassment said:


> i don't know if i have really bad luck or i got defective units but my ed9 and ed10 cables are not working. on the ed10 only high frequencies get thru and on the ed9 the left channel works half the time. im hoping someone here can help me get the ed10 units open. i don't want to damage the casing but i seriously need to replace that wire ! they appear to be made of metal with very little lip to get a utility knife into and work the edge to loosen the cover. em i going to have to resort to reordering or using power tools to get this thing to open? .. i know i should probably just replace the plug but i think that i might aswell do the whole cable .. since its only been two days since i got it and already this has happened .. i want to avoid more problems with the cable ..


 

 Try them with an other player cause may be it is a CTIA OMTP issue.


----------



## Ruben123

Coil,
Seems my comment has gone, had you read it before it went away?


----------



## Horton

If print this pattern fine? any suggest of the pattern?


----------



## RedTwilight

horton said:


> If print this pattern fine? any suggest of the pattern?


 
  
 That would pretty much be changing KZ's company trademark though wouldn't it?


----------



## Lohb

raybone0566 said:


> Wow, that sounds very painful!


 

 To clarify, it was the opamp that melted them.There was no problem with the earphones.
  
 Incorrect advice on a C5 opamp upgrade...though that opamp sounded fantastic with ED9, till I flipped bass boost on at low gain . (The fatal combo that cooked them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








)


----------



## raybone0566

lohb said:


> To clarify, it was the opamp that melted them.There was no problem with the earphones.
> 
> Incorrect advice on a C5 opamp upgrade...though that opamp sounded fantastic with ED9, till I flipped bass boost on at low gain . (The fatal combo that cooked them :basshead: :basshead: )


Much better that it happened that way. Cheers


----------



## Tobias89

Guys, on the KZ store (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/sale-items/1358152.html?promotionType=sale&tagResultChecked=y), there's multiple listing for the same IEM, with varying prices too (eg. the DT5 and EDSE). Are they any different?


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> Coil,
> Seems my comment has gone, had you read it before it went away?


 
 No. Send PM.
  


horton said:


> If print this pattern fine? any suggest of the pattern?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 You need new brand for KZ IEM`s ? Are Your really a member of KZ development/marketing?
 Maybe I can help. The one on the pic is not good.
  
 Edit:
  
 Just finished my DX50 PANAMOD (http://www.head-fi.org/t/720776/ibasso-dx50-mods/240#post_11863288)
 and... those who think source gear SQ isn`t important - IT IS!
 This is crazy how good my portable setup with modded ATE sounds now! Can`t do A/B test atm because I`m not at home but I think I have jumped over my desktop setup SQ with this combo!


----------



## kaiteck

coil said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > Coil,
> ...




May i know what source gear do you use? Haha may changing phone soo since my s3 is showing sign of dying

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## CADCAM

I've been moving equipment into my new computer\headphone room and finished setting up a system I've usually used with my HD600's. It's a Samsung Blu ray player feeding a Maverick Audio D2 into my mighty Keces HA-171. You can barely touch the volume (on low gain) but the ED10's sound absolutely crazy! The bass as powerful as ever has never sounded cleaner, mids sound excellent and the only issue may be the highs. You can almost hear the price point effects of the driver in the highs. Don't get me wrong they sound fine but there is a bit of a edge to them that manifests itself every so often. I truly can't believe how good they sound though...if you blindfolded me and said this was a expensive hp I'd believe it! Kz crazy!


----------



## CoiL

kaiteck said:


> May i know what source gear do you use? Haha may changing phone soo since my s3 is showing sign of dying


 
 Read from user profile?


----------



## kaiteck

coil said:


> Read from user profile?


 
 You sir rocks! To think you have so many DACs...
  
 I assume you are using ele d02 with kz ate? haha


----------



## HiFiChris

The KZ *Psychic ZN1 *is on sale (61% off) on AliExpress, only less than 19 hours are remaining (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone/1358152_32444083695.html).
  
 After I had surprisingly great experience with the ATE, I think I'm gonna buy this one, too. The built-in equalizer/amp thing with display sounds interesting, and it's got a dual-bore nozzle as well.


----------



## CADCAM

I listen from external DAC's and amp...they look intriguing but don't know if they are for me. I'd have to listen straight from one of my disc players or mp3 players.


----------



## EarTips

hifichris said:


> The KZ *Psychic ZN1 *is on sale (61% off) on AliExpress, only less than 19 hours are remaining (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone/1358152_32444083695.html).
> 
> After I had surprisingly great experience with the ATE, I think I'm gonna buy this one, too. The built-in equalizer/amp thing with display sounds interesting, and it's got a dual-bore nozzle as well.


 
 Thanks for sharing, and guys, rmb to get the mobile-app-only $4 discount coupon, can get the kz zn1 for $25.99.


----------



## HiFiChris

eartips said:


> [...] mobile-app-only $4 discount coupon [...]


 
  
 But it's only valid for orders (including bundled orders) over $39, isn't it?


----------



## EarTips

Hi HFC, i'm not sure abt the bundled orders, but the app's rules stated "Your order should have a total value of US$20 or more", well, no harm trying isn't it.


----------



## HiFiChris

Thanks for the tip, I'll try it.


----------



## EarTips

@HFC, you are welcome


----------



## CoiL

hifichris said:


> The KZ *Psychic ZN1 *is on sale (61% off) on AliExpress, only less than 19 hours are remaining (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone/1358152_32444083695.html).
> 
> After I had surprisingly great experience with the ATE, I think I'm gonna buy this one, too. The built-in equalizer/amp thing with display sounds interesting, and it's got a dual-bore nozzle as well.


 
 Am I only one who thinks, looking at real-world pics, that nozzle is too short? And seems to use same cable as with ED9 brown cable (absolutely worst IEM cable I know)?


----------



## HiFiChris

coil said:


> Am I only one who thinks, looking at real-world pics, that nozzle is too short?


 


 Hmm, that's a good point; haven't noticed that. But we'll see.

  


> And seems to use same cable as with ED9 brown cable (absolutely worst IEM cable I know)?


 

 If the ED9's cable _feels _like the ATE's cable, I don't think that it is bad at all, just a bit too rubbery (I don't have the ED9, just the ATE as I ordered it out of curiosity without expecting much for ~$10).


 Edit: seems like the ZN1 doesn't come with a carrying case either...


----------



## CoiL

ED9 brown cable is much worse than ATE colourful cable, imho.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> ED9 brown cable is much worse than ATE colourful cable, imho.




Agreed. I still think both cables are above average, even though they're sticky and the ED9's is extra bouncy. Fine with the cable behind ear though (for me).


----------



## HiFiChris

Something I really miss on my ATE is a chin-slider above the Y-split. As that part is fairly long, it isn't really comfortable when laying on the back as the golden "eggs" that add weight are bouncing around with the slightest head movement.


----------



## sodesuka

Looks like you can apply the $4 discount for ZN1 after all.
 http://i.cubeupload.com/Zbb2c8.png
  
 I won't be buying this one though, bought too many this month. I'll wait for you guys' impressions.


----------



## HiFiChris

@EarTips
  
 Your tip with the AliExpress App was worth a mint, thank you! There are other items that have got *massive *discount that is only accessible through the App.


 Seems like the $4 coupon "giveaway" is different with the German AliExpress App/website: it's only applicable on orders (including bundles) in the app that exceed a value of $29, and only 50 coupons are given per hour ("first come, first serve"). I think I'll order the ZN1, ED9 and EDSE. There's not much that could go wrong for ~$30, ~$10 and ~$9.


----------



## EarTips

Cheers


----------



## aeroG1

Hey guys, I'm a long time lurker and first time poster on this thread. KZ intrigues me, though I've never tried a pair. Now that KZ is available on amazon with prime, I have decided I'm ready to take a dive into KZ.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B011KQMDZC/ref=pd_aw_sbs_107_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DF37CXFXMEFWHSAN1BZ

Would you guys mind helping me find a pair that suits me?
I would like the earphone with the most detail retreival, the most accuracy. I have an affinity toward analytical sound, and I'm quite picky about my treble.
My favorite headphones are my AKG K545, and my favorite earphones were my Etymotic HF5, before they broke. 
I do also like warm sounds, so long as they have worthy treble detail and air, such as my MH1C, before it also broke. 

Thank you in advance for your help!


----------



## SSSN

I just found a German Ebay seller selling new ED10s for 8€ (~$10) with shipping from within Germany. Although I have some from China coming my way, I could not resist.


----------



## CADCAM

aerog1 said:


> Hey guys, I'm a long time lurker and first time poster on this thread. KZ intrigues me, though I've never tried a pair. Now that KZ is available on amazon with prime, I have decided I'm ready to take a dive into KZ.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B011KQMDZC/ref=pd_aw_sbs_107_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DF37CXFXMEFWHSAN1BZ
> 
> ...


 
 I would have to suggest the ED9, I have the ED9 & ED10 (and also the EDse). Without question detail is in ED9's wheelhouse. One word of caution...let them burn-in for a while as out of the package mine sounded aweful. Almost threw them away aweful...now I love them and have ordered another as backup just in case.
  
 You may also like the ED10 but I am a very analytical listener and gravitate toward the ED9. I have not heard the ANV or ATE so someone else may want to chime in.


----------



## chavez

My buddy bought ED10's and now he has to order two more pairs because his sister and dad want one too! I tried them for a minute,they sure have a stronger bass than EDSE/ED2 .Also 13 days to Serbia shipped from China ,RECORD SPEED.


----------



## hyuji

Hi,

New user from India! Been trolling the forums for quite some time.. Have used the Monoprice 9970s and JVC FXT90s earlier, both broke apart quite quickly. Just jumped on the ZN1 discount on Aliexpress at $25.99. Hope it's worth it and 60-15KHz better be a typo.


----------



## HiFiChris

Let's hope the Psychic ZN1 "Copernicus" can also be used with disabled built-in amp or flat battery. Really looking forward to it, although the nozzle does indeed look quite short, but I have to admit that the InEar StageDiver SD-2's nozzles look short, too, but fit perfectly (at least in my ears and many others).


----------



## Trapok

hifichris said:


> The KZ *Psychic ZN1 *is on sale (61% off) on AliExpress, only less than 19 hours are remaining (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone/1358152_32444083695.html).
> 
> After I had surprisingly great experience with the ATE, I think I'm gonna buy this one, too. The built-in equalizer/amp thing with display sounds interesting, and it's got a dual-bore nozzle as well.


 
  
 Thx for the link, after EDSE, ED3, ED8, ED9, ATE and ED10, now get the kz zn1 for $25.99.
  
 PS: For those who want a spare earphone, the *ED10* is at only *$7.51 *today with mobile-app.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/1825606_32373336369.html


----------



## HiFiChris

Anytime. Discovered the Psychic ZN1 Copernicus myself two or three days ago and thought "interesting, but I'll wait for others' impressions if they are any food for $80 (or $70, or whatever their price was back then)".
 Today, I opened the ED9 bookmark I set yesterday to see that their deal was gone (it wasn't, because it was on sale with a better discount on the mobile app, as I figured out later that day) and clicked the ZN1 page that gave me a shock, then caused frown, which then ended up in excitement. Honestly, I think you can't do much wrong with the $25 price ($29 - $4 app coupon), even if they don't sound as good as the other KZ IEMs, as the amp/equalizer and dual bore (for the price range) features are unique.

  
#hypetrain​


----------



## Trapok

hifichris said:


> ..."interesting, but I'll wait for others"


 
 I d say that too, but for $25 i ll do the "cobaye"


----------



## Suneth

why seller say these things?

This headphone only fits for audiophiles, suggest ordinary user didn't purchase it. 

The ordinary user who is insensitive at sound, strongly suggest didn't need to purchase it.


offer is too good to pass on. but now i'm in doubts


----------



## voxxonline

I am invisible reader of this thread.
 Purchased ED9, which came faulty- left earpiece had bad connection, but sound was good, cannot tell how much because never listened to it in relaxed environment- always had to hold cable 
 Got ATE, and liked them, but only after I put different buds it started to shine - good sound for the up to 40-50 £ price.
 Tomorrow will get ED10, will see how good it gets with them.
 But looks like proper over the ear cans will do the job better than any IEM's


----------



## voxxonline

In fact I am for the search of the ultimate portable headphones, and most likely heading to Can Jam London this weekend to see and hear.


----------



## Chief Stringer

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011KQMDZC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B010AGYAT0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1B7FCZGABXH42CJEJFC9

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WU5ZTPE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B010AGYAT0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Anyone else saw these fake amazon reviews?


----------



## B9Scrambler

chief stringer said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011KQMDZC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B010AGYAT0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1B7FCZGABXH42CJEJFC9
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WU5ZTPE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B010AGYAT0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> Anyone else saw these fake amazon reviews?




Hahahha....it's amazing. Just word-for-word copy and paste. No effort at all.


----------



## PeterDLai

The reviews are the same because the seller is utilizing the "color" options to sell different models on the same page. If you look under each reviewer's name, you'll see which "color" (specific model) the person is reviewing. The three reviews are all for the ED-9 model.


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## Horton

suneth said:


> why seller say these things?
> 
> This headphone only fits for audiophiles, suggest ordinary user didn't purchase it.
> 
> ...


 
 Because this is with amps, the ordinary user will not like to wear this headphone, and if they are insensitive at sound, will pay more attention to other parts, will didn't think this is a good headphone, just this.


----------



## Horton

hifichris said:


> Let's hope the Psychic ZN1 "Copernicus" can also be used with disabled built-in amp or flat battery. Really looking forward to it, although the nozzle does indeed look quite short, but I have to admit that the InEar StageDiver SD-2's nozzles look short, too, but fit perfectly (at least in my ears and many others).


 
 The nozzles is not very short as image, may be the housing is too big, haha


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## Lohb

Yes, the ED9 cable is quite sticky and kinked when I received it but hairdryer up and down the cable takes the kinks out and as others have said talcum powder removes that fresh from factory tacky/stickiness.
  
 My g/f trying to hijack my ED10s. Not going to happen.
 Going to fob her off with my old Brainwavz.


----------



## leobigfield

Received my ED10 yesterday. OTB with those wide bore blue tips they sound very nice, better than the ATE (IMHO), easily could compare with my gears at 3~4 time the price. But them i decide to use my beloved ortofon silicon tips on them and *HOLLY MOLLY!* Highs are a little sharper (but nowhere aggressive in any way!) and seems more airier, everything seems to have more "space"; the bass although giving me the impression of being tighter, now has a really nice texture added to it and gives me the impression of going deeper than with the blue tips!
  
 Very very impressed! How this things cost this low?


----------



## Lohb

leobigfield said:


> Received my ED10 yesterday. OTB with those wide bore blue tips they sound very nice, better than the ATE (IMHO), easily could compare with my gears at 3~4 time the price. But them i decide to use my beloved ortofon silicon tips on them and *HOLLY MOLLY!* Highs are a little sharper (but nowhere aggressive in any way!) and seems more airier, everything seems to have more "space"; the bass although giving me the impression of being tighter, now has a really nice texture added to it and gives me the impression of going deeper than with the blue tips!
> 
> Very very impressed! How this things cost this low?


 

 Can those ortofon silicon tips be bought on their own ?


----------



## leobigfield

lohb said:


> Can those ortofon silicon tips be bought on their own ?


 
 Yes they can, but unfortunately they will cost another ED10 for 1 pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was lucky to have them from my defunct E-Q5 and are my best tips, always sound good with everything i throw them at but unfortunately they are wide bore made of very soft silicon and slip out most out from most nozzles. Not the case with the ED10 thought, fit very snug in the nozzle and are very confortable with great seal!


----------



## HiFiChris

leobigfield said:


> Very very impressed! How this things cost this low?




That was also my initial thought when I first listened to the ATE.
There are many hype trains on low budget IEMs, but imho the Knowledge Zenith in-ears really deserve it. With their build quality and sound, they imho definitely play in the ~$50 range.


----------



## CoiL

I still doubt it will be able to "beat" modded ATE SQ but I`ll see/hear soon


----------



## HiFiChris

Horton

Does the ZN1 also work with disabled amplifier and when it runs out of battery?


----------



## saurabh213

How is KZ ED9 when compared to piston 3?
Need new iem
Looking for bass,clarity and durability

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## saurabh213

Previously owned sound magic es18


Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


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## Suneth

horton said:


> Because this is with amps, the ordinary user will not like to wear this headphone, and if they are insensitive at sound, will pay more attention to other parts, will didn't think this is a good headphone, just this.


 

 Thanks. I'm a kind of person who enjoys music lying down on the bed at night and love ATE so i don't have to worry about wires and stuff. also wanted to buy an amp so i guess this should be my starting point.


----------



## ayao

hifichris said:


> @Horton
> 
> Does the ZN1 also work with disabled amplifier and when it runs out of battery?


 
@Horton
 I would also like to know if the ZN1 works passively (like a normal earphone) when the amp is switched off (ordered one as well)! It would be great if the off switch bypasses the amp entirely.


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## hoshiyomi

from the design's point of view, getting pass-thru while doing a bi-amped active crossover system would be very difficult.
 I doubt that's the case.


----------



## CADCAM

saurabh213 said:


> How is KZ ED9 when compared to piston 3?
> Need new iem
> Looking for bass,clarity and durability
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


 
 I have the Piston 2 and ED9 and they are different with the Piston 2 having gobs of bass and the ED9 fantastic detail. I think the ED10 might be right for you but the ED9 is a great hp IMO.


----------



## saurabh213

cadcam said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > How is KZ ED9 when compared to piston 3?
> ...



Ed10 is not available 
Piston 3,Ed 9 and es8m only..
Which one is better

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


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## 1clearhead

I'm trying very hard to convince myself and make sense on purchasing the ZN1. Wouldn't it make some weight to carry that little amp/booster gadget hanging from the earphones? I kind of like the earphones themselves and hope they can make the same one without that amp/booster gadget hanging off the wires like that. The earphones itself looks pretty sweet though.


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## HiFiChris

I assume the amp itself is very lightweight as it is made out of plastic (probably FiiO E6 weight and iIrc, the battery has got a capacity of only 200 mAh) and as the cables are worn around the ears, that should take away some weight and pull, too.


----------



## TwinACStacks

First thing I would have to ask myself is WHY do they Need their own power source. Are they so hard to drive they sound like Dookie without it?
  
 I'm very apprehensive about these. I will wait to see what others think. I've gotten rid of More Earphones because of High Impedance (over 32 Ohms) than any other reason. INVARIABLY when you Boost these small Drivers with an outside amp they Distort before you can reach ant real moderate volume.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Djinnenjous

I don't know what people's experiences with AliExpress are usually like but I'm getting a bit irritated that eleven days after I placed my order, the only tracking information I can find still says that it has been "dispatched to overseas." As far as I know my ED10s are anywhere between mainland China and my house right now—perhaps surfing off of the California coast, or sunning themselves on some uncharted Pacific island.
  
 I understand that I paid nothing for international shipping and I'm trying to be patient but I really dislike the fact that I have no idea when they're showing up, or where they are, and that even the most basic tracking information hadn't gone live until six or so days _after _I received my shipping confirmation email.
  
 Bleh.


----------



## bhazard

djinnenjous said:


> I don't know what people's experiences with AliExpress are usually like but I'm getting a bit irritated that eleven days after I placed my order, the only tracking information I can find still says that it has been "dispatched to overseas." As far as I know my ED10s are anywhere between mainland China and my house right now—perhaps surfing off of the California coast, or sunning themselves on some uncharted Pacific island.
> 
> I understand that I paid nothing for international shipping and I'm trying to be patient but I really dislike the fact that I have no idea when they're showing up, or where they are, and that even the most basic tracking information hadn't gone live until six or so days _after _I received my shipping confirmation email.
> 
> Bleh.


 
 Ask the seller for the tracking number by contacting them. You can find their info on the order page.
  
 If they don't respond, open a dispute and they'll respond pretty quickly.


----------



## bhazard

twinacstacks said:


> First thing I would have to ask myself is WHY do they Need their own power source. Are they so hard to drive they sound like Dookie without it?
> 
> I'm very apprehensive about these. I will wait to see what others think. I've gotten rid of More Earphones because of High Impedance (over 32 Ohms) than any other reason. INVARIABLY when you Boost these small Drivers with an outside amp they Distort before you can reach ant real moderate volume.
> 
> ...


 
 The DSP and LCD would require some form of power. Two amp chips would need a little bit too.


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## HiFiChris

djinnenjous said:


> I don't know what people's experiences with AliExpress are usually like but I'm getting a bit irritated that eleven days after I placed my order, the only tracking information I can find still says that it has been "dispatched to overseas." As far as I know my ED10s are anywhere between mainland China and my house right now—perhaps surfing off of the California coast, or sunning themselves on some uncharted Pacific island.
> 
> I understand that I paid nothing for international shipping and I'm trying to be patient but I really dislike the fact that I have no idea when they're showing up, or where they are, and that even the most basic tracking information hadn't gone live until six or so days _after _I received my shipping confirmation email.
> 
> Bleh.




It's not a problem with AliExpress in general, but with the Chinese airmail tracking. It is just slow and inaccurate, and yeah, it even sometimes only shows updates when the goods have already arrived (okay, that's honestly in most of the cases). 

I haven't ordered much yet from AliExpress (the ATE, Awei ES-Q5 (that has a strong channel imbalance), some other stuff and gifts for the family are the only things I've received from there so far), but in the past plenty from ebay where the sellers were located in different Eastern Asian countries. *From personal experience, I can say that everything between two weeks and two months is pretty normal and you can't rely on the airmail tracking. *


----------



## Djinnenjous

Oh, well in that case cool. Two months' delivery sounds great in the era of Amazon Prime's free two-day shipping (that now delivers on Sundays). /wrists


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## HiFiChris

Well, for Amazon Prime, you're also paying on a yearly basis, don't you? I guess it is around $50/year, as it is 49€/year in Germany (btw: it's cool that they deliver on Sundays in America, I wish they did in Germany, too. On the other hand, it isn't so cool for the courier, as I have discovered myself during community service - you only think it's okay for you to work on weekends in the beginning, but as weeks pass, you begin to regret it more and more. It's cool to take one day ore two off during a working week? No, it isn't when your weekend gets stolen - I'm glad my community service is over). 

You can't expect the air mail (that was most likely free for you, wasn't it?) from China to be as fast as express delivery within the USA. You either have to (if offered) pay for express delivery from overseas, or just relax and wait up to two months. It is a pity that tracking is inaccurate and very delayed, but we have to take it as it is - that's why I don't track air mail anymore.


----------



## ajaxender

Today I received some tips I purchased from Lunashop on... *checked through emails* the 22nd of July. So thats nearly 5 weeks. Yeah, standard Chinese shipping does not seem to be particularly quick.
 More on topic, I bought a bunch of KZ's the other day, since this thread is too interesting to not get involved. But I guess I will not hold my breath for them to show up any time soon. Whats the saying? Fast, Cheap, Good, pick any two? Seems rather accurate, haha.


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## Reinoud1963

The KZ-ED9 is one of the best in-ear phones i ever heard. Tried a lot and spend a lot on very expensives ie earphones. This one is my favorite, very detailed sound! Use it with the Ibasso Dx90 and the FiiO E12A, love it!


----------



## CoiL

Then You should try ED10 and ATE also... just for the taste


----------



## Lohb

reinoud1963 said:


> The KZ-ED9 is one of the best in-ear phones i ever heard. Tried a lot and spend a lot on very expensives ie earphones. This one is my favorite, very detailed sound! Use it with the Ibasso Dx90 and the FiiO E12A, love it!


 

 Yes, E12a or Cayin C5 are spot-on to really show what the ED9 is capable of. The underdog IEM of 2015 !
 Though these DAP companies really need to get their act together to let the DAP bring out the full potential of IEMs to planars vs this DAP/amp stacking nonsense.


----------



## Horton

hifichris said:


> @Horton
> 
> Does the ZN1 also work with disabled amplifier and when it runs out of battery?


 
 sorry not very clear about "disabled amplifier" mean. Ok, why ZN1 should use itself amps not others, it is the ZN1 with 2 amplifier chips, one for midbass and another work for treble. Other amps could not work for dual driver accurately. So that have to design the tailored amps for the dual driver. It have a obvious difference when on and off,
 when it runs out of battery, could make phone call, the volume adjustment and amps relevant function is not work, could use as normal dual driver headphone.


----------



## saurabh213

Guys pls help me decide between kz ed8m and piston 3..
I want detail,bass, and durability..
What is the difference between ed8m and ed9 ?
And which is better than p3??

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## HiFiChris

horton said:


> [...] when it runs out of battery, [...] the volume adjustment and amps relevant function is not work, could use as normal dual driver headphone.


 

 Okay, thank you, that was the answer to my question.


----------



## Horton

hifichris said:


> Okay, thank you, that was the answer to my question.


 
 You are welcome, this is the more details:http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZN1-Headphones-Housing-Structure/1358152_32441079114.html
 The ZN1 is redesign of dual driver headphone, the most impressed me is the dual driver "system". Didn't know if worth its price, haha


----------



## CoiL

saurabh213 said:


> I want detail,bass, and durability..


 
 ED10 ?


----------



## ayao

horton said:


> when it runs out of battery, could make phone call, the volume adjustment and amps relevant function is not work, could use as normal dual driver headphone.


 






horton said:


> You are welcome, this is the more details:http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZN1-Headphones-Housing-Structure/1358152_32441079114.html
> The ZN1 is redesign of dual driver headphone, the most impressed me is the dual driver "system". Didn't know if worth its price, haha


 
 ohhhh, so those $1000 listings were actually extra product descriptions for the ZN1.. I never actually clicked into it haha
 Thanks for addressing our questions!


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> ED10 ?


 
 Exactly.


----------



## CADCAM

eisenbricher said:


> Exactly.


 
 I also told him that a couple days ago. 
 BTW anyone have the GR's? Comments??


----------



## techguy181

How's the sound isolation on the ATE (compared to Piston 3 / SE215)? Usable in a noisy bus without blasting the volume?


----------



## rancor1223

Prior to finding this forum, I purchased the *KZ A1* (for $18). Sadly the seller said he didn't have them anymore and offered me *KZ RX* ($22). I'm not overly fond of the design, but having read the few pages here, it seems like waste of money since much cheaper *ED10s *seem to be good enough (?). I quite like the *KZ R1 *($21) design, are those any good?
  
 What am asking basically is whether $20 *KZs *are worth it (if yes, then *RX *or *R1*?), or if i should just cancel the order and get cheaper ones.


----------



## Lohb

rancor1223 said:


> Prior to finding this forum, I purchased the *KZ A1* (for $18). Sadly the seller said he didn't have them anymore and offered me *KZ RX* ($22). I'm not overly fond of the design, but having read the few pages here, it seems like waste of money since much cheaper *ED10s *seem to be good enough (?). I quite like the *KZ R1 *($21) design, are those any good?
> 
> What am asking basically is whether $20 *KZs *are worth it (if yes, then *RX *or *R1*?), or if i should just cancel the order and get cheaper ones.


 

 What sound signature are you looking for in the IEMs ?


----------



## rancor1223

lohb said:


> What sound signature are you looking for in the IEMs ?


 
 Honestly, I don't know. I'm far from audiophile. I just want good headphones because my previous died.
  
 If it helps I mostly listen to soundtrack music, rock, punkrock, and symphonic metal.


----------



## RedTwilight

rancor1223 said:


> Honestly, I don't know. I'm far from audiophile. I just want good headphones because my previous died.
> 
> If it helps I mostly listen to soundtrack music, rock, punkrock, and symphonic metal.




You could probably give Ed10 a try. It has pretty good speed and clarity (quite surprising, really) without being really bright like the ed9.


----------



## techguy181

How well do the ATEs isolate from outside noise?


----------



## B9Scrambler

techguy181 said:


> How well do the ATEs isolate from outside noise?




Not well at all


----------



## CADCAM

redtwilight said:


> You could probably give Ed10 a try. It has pretty good speed and clarity (quite surprising, really) without being really bright like the ed9.


 
 I do not find the ED9 bright at all. I believe it can resolve detail very well but bright...no. If you have a descent source and the correct tips I find them to be my favorite Kz. I did experiment with different types of filters on the gold nozzles but actually enjoy the brass more (with stock filters in place).


----------



## techguy181

b9scrambler said:


> Not well at all


 
  
 Sound leaks in even with the foam eartips? Can you have a conversation with them inserted and no music playing?


----------



## CADCAM

Scrambler have you hear the GR's? With black and red nozzles?


----------



## rancor1223

redtwilight said:


> You could probably give Ed10 a try. It has pretty good speed and clarity (quite surprising, really) without being really bright like the ed9.


 
 So not need to get R1 or RX. ED10 will do just fine. Well, I don't mind saving $10. And I like their design a lot. Thanks for the help!


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Scrambler have you hear the GR's? With black and red nozzles?




Sorry man. That was one model I passed over. Was debating getting them for the extra filters to use with the ED9, but I passed on that idea too since the ED10 came about. 

On the other hand, the KZ DS came in. The right driver is messed up, but from what i got from left driver only usage is that they slot in above the CM9 and R3 in my comparo. They have a similar signature to the ED series, but lack the refinement. The cable is also horrendously microphonic. Might swap in a better cable and new drivers because the housing is really comfortable.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> Sorry man. That was one model I passed over. Was debating getting them for the extra filters to use with the ED9, but I passed on that idea too since the ED10 came about.
> 
> On the other hand, the KZ DS came in. The right driver is messed up, but from what i got from left driver only usage is that they slot in above the CM9 and R3 in my comparo. They have a similar signature to the ED series, but lack the refinement. The cable is also horrendously microphonic. Might swap in a better cable and new drivers because the housing is really comfortable.


 
 Thanks for the info...
 BTW I'm lovin' the ED10's but I have small ear canals and need to use the smallest tips, with the ED10 I feel they sit real flush and I'm always trying to seat them a little deeper. The good thing is they sound great even if I can't get them to my usual depth. I did order the blue whirlwind tips and the red bore tips on Aliexpress. They also let me just order small & medium which was cool of them. The DS looks like the next revision of the CM9-ANV series...
 also the clear ATE's how is the fit? Does the cable have to go over the ear? Never worn any like that...


----------



## bhazard

rancor1223 said:


> Prior to finding this forum, I purchased the *KZ A1* (for $18). Sadly the seller said he didn't have them anymore and offered me *KZ RX* ($22). I'm not overly fond of the design, but having read the few pages here, it seems like waste of money since much cheaper *ED10s *seem to be good enough (?). I quite like the *KZ R1 *($21) design, are those any good?
> 
> What am asking basically is whether $20 *KZs *are worth it (if yes, then *RX *or *R1*?), or if i should just cancel the order and get cheaper ones.


 
 No KZ is $20 normally. The actual price is around $8-12. You just need to catch the sales at the right time, and buy from the official KZ store on aliexpress or amazon


----------



## bhazard

ajaxender said:


> Today I received some tips I purchased from Lunashop on... *checked through emails* the 22nd of July. So thats nearly 5 weeks. Yeah, standard Chinese shipping does not seem to be particularly quick.
> More on topic, I bought a bunch of KZ's the other day, since this thread is too interesting to not get involved. But I guess I will not hold my breath for them to show up any time soon. Whats the saying? Fast, Cheap, Good, pick any two? Seems rather accurate, haha.


 
 If you are in the US, always try to get ePacket shipping. Sometimes it is free, and sometimes it is extra, but you get a tracking number and the arrival time is usually two weeks instead of 30-40 days. Well worth it.


----------



## rancor1223

bhazard said:


> No KZ is $20 normally. The actual price is around $8-12. You just need to catch the sales at the right time, and buy from the official KZ store on aliexpress or amazon


 
 Do you happen to have a link to their official Aliexpress store? There are quite a few (re)sellers who have ED10s for under $10. Should I avoid those?


----------



## eaglearrow

Guys, has anyone owned the KZ GK - DS ? how do they sound? I know its old, just wanted to know if the are any good as the are selling for just $3.99.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HiFi-Quality-JEECOO-GK-DS-Heavy-Bass-In-Ear-Earbuds-Style-Headphone-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-for/2033209998.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.hCCbXm


----------



## CoiL

cadcam said:


> redtwilight said:
> 
> 
> > You could probably give Ed10 a try. It has pretty good speed and clarity (quite surprising, really) without being really bright like the ed9.
> ...


 
 I have decent source gear and files - I also find ED9 little bright, like many here have mentioned. Guess it`s about personal hearing and source gear matching.
  
  


cadcam said:


> BTW anyone have the GR's? Comments??


 
 I have. Sold them. Small intimate soundstage and good only for oldschool "badly" mastered rock music, imho. Quite congested sound.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> I have decent source gear and files - I also find ED9 little bright, like many here have mentioned. Guess it`s about personal hearing and source gear matching.


 
 Thanks for your input CoiL. Based on me liking a more detailed analytical sound and admittedly my Bushmaster DAC has been refered to as on the "warm" side which may attribute to me not finding the ED9 bright how do you feel about me getting the ATE? I also have a Maverick Audio D2 DAC with SS & tube outputs.


----------



## CoiL

ATE is littlebit warmish sounding (smooth but detailed highs) and with warm DAC/AMP it can get too warm sounding. Though, using wide bore silicone tips and modding them to open-backs helps to make them more neutral and detailed sounding.


----------



## saurabh213

cadcam said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I have decent source gear and files - I also find ED9 little bright, like many here have mentioned. Guess it`s about personal hearing and source gear matching.
> ...


----------



## saurabh213

cadcam said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I have decent source gear and files - I also find ED9 little bright, like many here have mentioned. Guess it`s about personal hearing and source gear matching.
> ...



Pls do a comparison between kz ed8 and p3..
I like bass but i read that p3 have not existing bass that's why confused..

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## r2muchstuff

rancor1223 said:


> So not need to get R1 or RX. ED10 will do just fine. Well, I don't mind saving $10. And I like their design a lot. Thanks for the help!


 

 I have he KZ RX and I like them less than the ED10, ATE, ED SE, ED3 and dt3.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## EISENbricher

rancor1223 said:


> Prior to finding this forum, I purchased the *KZ A1* (for $18).Sadly the seller said he didn't have them anymore and offered me *KZ RX* ($22). I'm not overly fond of the design, but having read the few pages here, it seems like waste of money since much cheaper *ED10s* seem to be good enough (?). I quite like the *KZ R1 *($21) design, are those any good?
> 
> What am asking basically is whether $20 *KZs* are worth it (if yes, then *RX* or *R1*?), or if i should just cancel the order and getcheaper ones.



Rule of thumb is never pay above $10-12 for KZ phones. You might have come across some messed up seller. For example, I had paid only $4.50 for my R1, shipping included. 
You should be able to get ED10 under $10.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Thanks for the info...
> BTW I'm lovin' the ED10's but I have small ear canals and need to use the smallest tips, with the ED10 I feel they sit real flush and I'm always trying to seat them a little deeper. The good thing is they sound great even if I can't get them to my usual depth. I did order the blue whirlwind tips and the red bore tips on Aliexpress. They also let me just order small & medium which was cool of them. The DS looks like the next revision of the CM9-ANV series...
> also the clear ATE's how is the fit? Does the cable have to go over the ear? Never worn any like that...


 
  
 Glad you're enjoying them! They don't sit very deep for me either. They perch just outside the ear canal with medium tips.
  
 The DS is a copy of one of Audio Technica's older bass-focused models. They're worn cable down. Just think of them as a CM9 with a weird growth, haha. Luckily they're really easy to take apart so reworking the drivers and cable should be easy


----------



## CADCAM

saurabh213 said:


> Pls do a comparison between kz ed8 and p3..
> I like bass but i read that p3 have not existing bass that's why confused..
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


 
 I don't have the ED8 or P3, only have ED9, ED10, EDse and P2. I also like them pretty much in that order.


----------



## RedTwilight

cadcam said:


> I do not find the ED9 bright at all. I believe it can resolve detail very well but bright...no. If you have a descent source and the correct tips I find them to be my favorite Kz. I did experiment with different types of filters on the gold nozzles but actually enjoy the brass more (with stock filters in place).


 
  
  


coil said:


> I have decent source gear and files - I also find ED9 little bright, like many here have mentioned. Guess it`s about personal hearing and source gear matching.
> 
> 
> I have. Sold them. Small intimate soundstage and good only for oldschool "badly" mastered rock music, imho. Quite congested sound.


 
  
 Yea probably more of a case of different strokes for different folks I think. I did like the ATE a lot, and now the ED10 with Spiral Dots (yea I know my tips cost as much as the iem). With the whirlwind tips the soundstage was pretty large (not Havi huge but impressively out of head) but treble was a little peaky for me. Switching to the stock black tips that usually work well with many other iems, I found that the sound was abit hollowish and metallic (grainy? not sure how to describe). Then again it was coming down from the Trinity Delta so maybe ears were used to the sound. With the SDs I found the happy middle ground between openness and clarity without the peakiness. This was before burning in however so the smoothing might have been just the driver stretching into shape. Will try the whirlwind tips again after a few days to see if results are consistent.


----------



## Lohb

With the Fidue A73, is there any of the ED9/ED10/ATE that they resemble/scale from in SQ/tonality or are they totally different to the new KZ line-up ?
 Interesting hybrid at a decent price.


----------



## Brian Coffey

Ordered Kz ED10 and Ate on the 25th after reading most of this thread. ENABLERS... LOL


----------



## hoshiyomi

ANV just became superb with a chunk of foam stuffed in the tip!
  
 I used foam from the KZ box, cut out small squares and fitted as much as I could into the tips, now the tonal balance resembles that of Dunu Titan 1. It lacks the bit of sub-bass rumble that Titan 1 carries, but shares similar effortlessness of large dynamic driver iems, plus both has well extended high end response.
  
 These just topped KZ ATEs in terms of general preference.


----------



## CoiL

what was the reason for stuffing in the foam?


> It lacks the bit of sub-bass rumble


 
 Main fault of ANV, imho. Otherwise very good IEM.


----------



## EISENbricher

brian coffey said:


> Ordered Kz ED10 and Ate on the 25th after reading most of this thread. ENABLERS... LOL


 
 Great. I hope you like these.


----------



## hoshiyomi

coil said:


> what was the reason for stuffing in the foam?
> 
> 
> > It lacks the bit of sub-bass rumble
> ...



The ANV without foam reminds me of a capable fullrange speaker that exibits an upward tilt in freq response, just too much treble to be neutral.


----------



## RedTwilight

brian coffey said:


> Ordered Kz ED10 and Ate on the 25th after reading most of this thread. ENABLERS... LOL


 
  











  


eisenbricher said:


> Great. I hope you like these.


 
  
 It helps that they're pretty likeable.


----------



## Reinoud1963

I have the ATE also,  very nice


----------



## CoiL

Ok. Just got my ED10. I`ll make it shortly...
  
 OOTB (with smallest black tips), ED10 are very good and definitely in top 3 of KZ latest IEM`s. Imo, by SQ, best after modified ATE, followed by ED9(brass) and ANV.
  
 Now, this will be littlebit unfair since I have modified ATE but I`m going to be objective as I can.
  
 ED10 vs. modded(m) ATE-b(translucent black):
  
 * ED10 has littlebit more sub-bass
 * ED10 has littlebit V-shaped sound signature
 * mATE-b has littlebit better mids and thus more natural vocals and more dynamic sound
 * ED10 soundstage is very good and I would say on par with mATE-b but latter has littlebit better separation and transparency (result of modification)
 * mATE-b has littlebit better microdetails through FR including highs (result of modification). Maybe except sub-bass because ED10 has more quantity on it.
 * mATE-b has littlebit better balanced/neutral and natural sound signature
 * ED10 has noticeably better isolation from outside noise
 * ED10 requires less vol (ED10 @ 188 vs. mATE-b @ 194 with DX50 @ mid gain)
  
 As You noted, I underlined word littlebit because difference is quite small.
 Source gear used to compare was hardware/firmware modified iBasso DX50 which has very neutral and detailed open sound with slight hint of warmth (naturality). For more details about source gear check profile.
  
 I was expecting much more V-shaped signature from comments I have read from here.
 I think they are actually quite source dependent, thus some users have different result with these.
  
 So, in conclusion, I would say ED10 is a *must have* in KZ lineup. Personally I rate KZ IEM`s as following:
 1) mATE-b
 2) ED10 
 3) ED9 (brass+foam)
 4) ANV (only gripe with this IEM is little lack of sub-bass, otherwise would put it on 2nd/3rd place)
  
 My only gripe with ED10 is that freaking rubbery/springy cable -.-
 (subjective opinion after living with IE800 cable on mATE-b)
  
 Hope it helps someone


----------



## kaiteck

coil said:


> Ok. Just got my ED10. I`ll make it shortly...
> 
> OOTB (with smallest black tips), ED10 are very good and definitely in top 3 of KZ latest IEM`s. Imo, by SQ, best after modified ATE, followed by ED9(brass) and ANV.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow the ED10 is rated higher than ED9?　Glad that I ordered ED10 instead of ED9. 
 By the way with intense curiosity, is your mod to kz ate really beneficial? I'm a bit skeptical about this lol... how does it sound different? I hope its something easy to do..


----------



## CoiL

> Originally Posted by *kaiteck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Wow the ED10 is rated higher than ED9?　Glad that I ordered ED10 instead of ED9.


 
 This is just my subjective opinion. I`m quite sensitive to highs and that`s why I have foam-modded my ED9 with brass nozzles. But then again I`m not only one here who finds ED9 highs slightly sharp/fatiguing.


> By the way with intense curiosity, is your mod to kz ate really beneficial? I'm a bit skeptical about this lol... how does it sound different? I hope its something easy to do..


 
 Seems You haven`t noticed my ATE "Forest Fairy" mod yet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





coil said:


> Spoiler: Warning: may cause inearrection!


 
 Open-back grill-mod + ED9 brass nozzles makes them noticeably more detailed and open/transparent sounding


----------



## Hisoundfi

cadcam said:


> I do not find the ED9 bright at all. I believe it can resolve detail very well but bright...no. If you have a descent source and the correct tips I find them to be my favorite Kz. I did experiment with different types of filters on the gold nozzles but actually enjoy the brass more (with stock filters in place).


+1


----------



## CoiL

Time to change cable!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 R.I.P. my soon to be sacrificed R-35 for cable change.
 Didn`t notice much difference between open/closed but need to do more comparing. One thing is sure, it`s not worse as open-back.
 ED10 are very easy to open, just pull from black cable relief till it comes away from housing and then take something thin and strong (like nail-fastener), put it inside from cable hole and with one hand holding from enclosure - pull(push) from inside pulling both hands together. Back cover will pop-out easily and can be re-installed easily with littlebit glue.


----------



## peter123

cadcam said:


> I do not find the ED9 bright at all. I believe it can resolve detail very well but bright...no. If you have a descent source and the correct tips I find them to be my favorite Kz. I did experiment with different types of filters on the gold nozzles but actually enjoy the brass more (with stock filters in place).




+2


----------



## Wokei

cadcam said:


> I do not find the ED9 bright at all. I believe it can resolve detail very well but bright...no. If you have a descent source and the correct tips I find them to be my favorite Kz. I did experiment with different types of filters on the gold nozzles but actually enjoy the brass more (with stock filters in place).




Do agree with Hisoundfi and peter123 and me run them thru me DX90 ..which is brighter dap conpared to me Fiio x5 ..haha


----------



## CoiL

It`s all subjective and personal. Different source gear, different hearing, different music, different taste etc. Not to mention KZ QC issues.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Of all the KZ I've measured, the ED9 with brass filters even has the most natural response curve as well. I don't say that to discredit any of the other KZ models, but more to say that of all the KZ earphones, the ed9 has the most natural sound and is the one I prefer the most. 

The ED10 is great, but I get more of a treble spike with them than I do with a burned in ed9 with brass filters. 

The ed10 is a v signature with great sound. It's a no brainer for their asking price. They have a build and sound that is very similar to the much higher priced Ostry KC06a.


----------



## HiFiChris

coil said:


> It`s all subjective and personal. Different source gear, different hearing, different music, different taste etc.




Also different ear canals, insertion depth and angle.
With my Zero Audio Carbo Tenore at regular insertion depth, I get a v-shaped sound signature with the emphasis in the lows mainly laying on the sub-bass, whereas I get a warm and dark sound with emphasised mid-bass and ground-tone area and recessed highs when I insert them deeply.


----------



## RedTwilight

hisoundfi said:


> Of all the KZ I've measured, the ED9 with brass filters even has the most natural response curve as well. I don't say that to discredit any of the other KZ models, but more to say that of all the KZ earphones, the ed9 has the most natural sound and is the one I prefer the most.
> 
> The ED10 is great, but I get more of a treble spike with them than I do with a burned in ed9 with brass filters.
> 
> The ed10 is a v signature with great sound. It's a no brainer for their asking price. They have a build and sound that is very similar to the much higher priced Ostry KC06a.




Agreed that the ED10 is quite a must-have. Like CoiL I'm also a little sensitive to treble peaks. Try spiral dots with the Ed10 if you have them. SDs don't always work as intended but I find that they work perfectly with the ed10.


----------



## CoiL

> Of all the KZ I've measured, the ED9 with brass filters even has the most natural response curve as well.


 
 Can You share measurements with us all in this thread? Haven`t seen any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Not that I care about measurements when real life nuances usually make most of resulting sound. Imo measured FR curve will show only ~1/3 about IEM/HP sound signature.


> the ed9 has the most natural sound


 
 Hope You didn`t mean it as a fact. This is subjective and about personal taste/hearing/gear match etc.


> The ED10 is great, but I get more of a treble spike with them


 
 No treble spikes with my pair and I`m quite sensitive to highs region. Must be personal hearing/gear/tips or QC difference.


> The ed10 is a v signature


 
 I wouldn`t over-emphasise this. Imhso it is only littlebit V-shaped. In comparison, I find ED9 with gold nozzles much more V-shaped.
  
 Overall my opinion is that ED10 > ED9 in terms of naturality (no matter if ED9 is foam modded or different nozzles). ED9 with brass nozzles sounds maybe tad more neutral/flat. 
  
 Soundstage is also littlebit better on ED10 (especially width).
  
 IMHSO
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


hifichris said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > It`s all subjective and personal. Different source gear, different hearing, different music, different taste etc.
> ...


 
 Forgot to mention that. Totally true!


----------



## NU62

Received my ED10s yesterday.  I agree that the treble is somewhat emphasized, but it is not objectionable.  I would describe their sound signature as very well defined and clear, not warm, with a big soundstage.  Vocals are a little recessed, maybe 5th or 6th row.  For under $9.00 delivered, they are a bargain.


----------



## Hisoundfi

coil said:


> Can You share measurements with us all in this thread? Haven`t seen any :rolleyes:
> Not that I care about measurements when real life nuances usually make most of resulting sound. Imo measured FR curve will show only ~1/3 about IEM/HP sound signature.
> Hope You didn`t mean it as a fact. This is subjective and about personal taste/hearing/gear match etc.
> No treble spikes with my pair and I`m quite sensitive to highs region. Must be personal hearing/gear/tips or QC difference.
> ...


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, how did you read my post? I thought you blocked me as you stated a long time ago? 

All good... 

I don't claim to be the KZ know all, and I don't argue with everyone who has an opinion different from mine. I just report on what I know as a fact based on time I've had with the products. I share impressions on the gear I own. 

I'd be happy to share my MEASUREMENTS when I get home this evening. That is if MEASUREMENTS actually do matter to you or not. Based on the comments made you're on both sides of the fence. 

Please don't start another argument buddy. I'm only sharing my opinions and observations.


----------



## CADCAM

I am usually extremely busy, just as many if not all of you are and when I do have an hour or so to listen I reach for my ED9's. It's not so much the clean lows or spacious highs but how they present the program material to me as a whole. Right now listening to King Crimson HDCD Lizard and I'm amazed that this is a $12.00 headphone! If CoiL likes his modded ATE more than the ED9 I happy for him...I'm glad he's found a cheap IEM that peaks his interest and he enjoys them. Myself and Hisoundfi and others may find the ED9 more enjoyable still others may find another model to their liking. As summer closes out I'm personally going back to my full size cans but am grateful and respect the value Kz has put into such inexpensive headphones.


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> Of all the KZ I've measured, the ED9 with brass filters even has the most natural response curve as well. I don't say that to discredit any of the other KZ models, but more to say that of all the KZ earphones, the ed9 has the most natural sound and is the one I prefer the most.
> 
> The ED10 is great, but I get more of a treble spike with them than I do with a burned in ed9 with brass filters.
> 
> The ed10 is a v signature with great sound. It's a no brainer for their asking price. They have a build and sound that is very similar to the much higher priced Ostry KC06a.


 



_*OH YEAH HIFI???*_
  
  
  
  
 Well all right then....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> _*OH YEAH HIFI???*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey buddy, I love the ED10, just stating the ED9 is more natural to my ears and on the graph. 
  
 The great news is we're all KZ fanboys here! We all win with KZ
  
 Cheers friend


----------



## Hisoundfi

Here you go guys. My *MEASUREMENTS*


----------



## Charliemotta

Ohhh,  those kind of measurements...my bad.


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> Ohhh,  those kind of measurements...my bad.


 
 Dude I'm still laughing about that post!
  
 Did your GR07BE come in yet?


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I am usually extremely busy, just as many if not all of you are and when I do have an hour or so to listen I reach for my ED9's. It's not so much the clean lows or spacious highs but how they present the program material to me as a whole. Right now listening to King Crimson HDCD Lizard and I'm amazed that this is a $12.00 headphone! If CoiL likes his modded ATE more than the ED9 I happy for him...I'm glad he's found a cheap IEM that peaks his interest and he enjoys them. Myself and Hisoundfi and others may find the ED9 more enjoyable still others may find another model to their liking. As summer closes out I'm personally going back to my full size cans but am grateful and respect the value Kz has put into such inexpensive headphones.




So your a Crimson fan eh? Awesome! I personally enjoy the three Larks era albums more than the rest of their huge catalogue. Starless and Bible Black is one of my all-time favorite songs


----------



## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> Dude I'm still laughing about that post!
> 
> Did your GR07BE come in yet?


 
 No, but for whatever reason Wisconsin to Florida mail is uber slow. Usually 4 days.  That's okay, I know where you live...I still remember where the hood is in K-town.


----------



## ForceMajeure

hisoundfi said:


> Here you go guys. My *MEASUREMENTS*


 
 Thank you 
 What do you use for measurement?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Arta software on my windows computer, a startech usb audio interface, and the vibrolabs Veritas. 

It measures pretty decently. It isn't 100 percent accurate but it definitely gives me good graphs that give anyone who sees it an idea of how it should sound.


----------



## theuprising

hisoundfi said:


> Here you go guys. My *MEASUREMENTS*


 
 Ew looks a lot like the ttpod t1e graph and it probably doesn't sound like the KC06a like some people were saying
  
 I question your ED9 measurements, which I do have, because from the looks of it, it lacks cymbal sparkle.


----------



## Hisoundfi

theuprising said:


> Ew looks a lot like the ttpod t1e graph and it probably doesn't sound like the KC06a like some people were saying
> 
> I question your ED9 measurements, which I do have, because from the looks of it, it lacks cymbal sparkle.


 

 You were right dude, the ED10 more resembles the T1E thatn the KC06A. Good observations friend.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Here you go guys. My *MEASUREMENTS*



 
Nice configuration!


----------



## TwinACStacks

forcemajeure said:


> Thank you
> What do you use for measurement?


 





 He wets his forefinger and holds it in the air. Much like he predicts the weather.
  
 He is very accurate. Sun and Soundwaves love him.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> He wets his forefinger and holds it in the air. Much like he predicts the weather.
> 
> He is very accurate. Sun and Soundwaves love him.
> 
> TWIN


You're way off meng...

I grab my crayons and pencils and paints and listen to the music and draw happy lines. 

For example, this is my graph of the DN2KJ...


----------



## Charliemotta

I see what you did there...now that graph I understand!


----------



## Chief Stringer

hisoundfi said:


> Arta software on my windows computer, a startech usb audio interface, and the vibrolabs Veritas.
> 
> It measures pretty decently. It isn't 100 percent accurate but it definitely gives me good graphs that give anyone who sees it an idea of how it should sound.




You making any more graphs with other kz earphones? (If you have other ones), or the gold filter ed9 for that matter?


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> You're way off meng...
> 
> I grab my crayons and pencils and paints and listen to the music and draw happy lines.
> 
> For example, this is my graph of the DN2KJ...


 





 Clouds are Free....
  
  
 BTW HiFi, my second guess was Witchcraft.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, how did you read my post? I thought you blocked me as you stated a long time ago?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/6060#post_11875883
  
 Don`t worry, You are still blocked. And "nice" way to jump back into conversation. Probably mistake to comment Your post and ask questions.
  
 Now, about measurements, how did You exactly did them and since You stated ED9 being most natural out of KZ`s You have, can You also share other KZ measurements for comparing?
 Not that I care about them, I really don`t, just maybe useful info for others.


----------



## ayao

coil said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/6060#post_11875883
> 
> Don`t worry, You are still blocked. And "nice" way to jump back into conversation. Probably mistake to comment Your post and ask questions.
> 
> ...


 
  


hisoundfi said:


> Arta software on my windows computer, a startech usb audio interface, and the vibrolabs Veritas.
> 
> It measures pretty decently. It isn't 100 percent accurate but it definitely gives me good graphs that give anyone who sees it an idea of how it should sound.


----------



## eaglearrow

Guys.. pls, we need this thread alive. Lets drop the topic and discuss something informative. 

Cheers


----------



## CoiL

But my questions and comments were very related to topic and some answers are quite informative (except some "jokes" and useless picky talk).
 For the sake of this thread, won`t ask and comment anymore hisoundfi posts
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I was just trying to be objective and bring into attention that there are many other real world nuances beside someone subjective opinion and graphs.
 Some ppl just look at FR graph and take it as everything there is to say about IEM/HP.


----------



## dbhai

And now enjoy this, if anyone still remember it - KZ R1 at $1.98 with free shipping via China post from KZ Headset Official Flagship Store
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-R1-In-ear-headphones/1358152_32453101858.html


----------



## mebaali

dbhai said:


> And now enjoy this, if anyone still remember it - KZ R1 at $1.98 with free shipping via China post from KZ Headset Official Flagship Store
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-R1-In-ear-headphones/1358152_32453101858.html


 
 Brilliant find! Ordered 1 (will use it for sleep time listening)


----------



## HiFiChris

The recommendations in the "Customers who viewed also viewed or bought" section though.
Not that headphone-related. Conclusion: either women also buy inexpensive headphones or males that look for inexpensive headphones also search/buy bras... either for their wives or for themselves. o.O


----------



## eaglearrow

Did they really spell knowledge zenith as 'Konwledge zenith' in KZ R1??


----------



## eaglearrow

mebaali said:


> Brilliant find! Ordered 1 (will use it for sleep time listening)


 

 Ordered 1 too.. hope the seller ships it... lol


----------



## Brian Coffey

eaglearrow said:


> Did they really spell knowledge zenith as 'Konwledge zenith' in KZ R1??


 
 I lol'ed at that myself


----------



## Hisoundfi

chief stringer said:


> You making any more graphs with other kz earphones? (If you have other ones), or the gold filter ed9 for that matter?


If you guys want any done please lmk. I'd be happy to provide them.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I hope you guys all understand that my intentions on this thread are to keep it open to EVERYONES opinions because they all matter. We share impressions on the products we have to help people decide what earphones they want. 

In the same breath, we all have the option to listen to whoever we want on Head-Fi. There is no right and wrong in this hobby. It's a matter of personal taste. 

I could jump on an ice cream forum and say that "chocolate ice cream is the best" and show how my own custom toppings make it even better. That's fine, and anyone who wants to listen to that or take it as gospel has the right to do that. What would be entirely wrong is dismissing/arguing with other people's opinions who are different than mine. We are here to discuss products and not people. The same philosophy applies to earphones.This isn't a hobby where we should take things to a personal level. 

Think about it. I personally feel that the ED9 is the best earphone that KZ has released to date from what I've heard, so I share that based on the time I've spent listening to them as well as many other earohones. Some will agree with me on that. Now, just because I said that, it doesn't mean that all other stuff is worse. It doesn't give anyone the right to argue with me, dismiss my opinion and add the "rolleyes" imoji to it.That's insulting and not what Head-Fi stands for. Agree to disagree with me and explain why. I embrace those conversations. I'm not here to instigate, but rather defend the people who's opinions have been insulted and dismissed on this thread. It's not right. 

I don't want to throw my weight around on here, but I write reviews and even do beta testing for some companies. If I didn't know what I was talking about I don't think I would have these opportunities. If you disagree with me I'm not going to take it personally, it goes with the turf. Just don't be rude and condescending while doing it. When that happens you aren't doing Head-Fi or yourself any favors. 

I'm not here to pick on anyone or carry on. I want to represent KZ the way they should be, and not dismiss any of their products, or the people who like them. 

We all like KZ, so rather than argue let's keep things positive. Share opinions and don't dismiss people. That's all I'm saying. 

Cheers guys


----------



## Wokei

Hisoundfi..great post

This is me list of me fav KZ 
1) ED9
2) ANV/ EDSE
3) R3
4) ED3 ...they don't get much love..lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

wokei said:


> Hisoundfi..great post
> 
> This is me list of me fav KZ
> 1) ED9
> ...


Massa Wokei was the guy who got me into KZ when I had my doubts about them. It was a great decision listening to him. 

That was during the ED3, EDSE and Micro Ring days. 

All of those are very decent. There's some KZ stuff that I've listened to for five minutes and said "nope, never again" because they sounded very mediocre. However, I've never regretted buying any KZ because for every "meh" pair there's two other models that punch WAY beyond their price tag.


----------



## HraD2

Guys, should i buy ANV for 9.98 USD?


----------



## Charliemotta

hisoundfi said:


> I hope you guys all understand that my intentions on this thread are to keep it open to EVERYONES opinions because they all matter. We share impressions on the products we have to help people decide what earphones they want.
> 
> In the same breath, we all have the option to listen to whoever we want on Head-Fi. There is no right and wrong in this hobby. It's a matter of personal taste.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Where can I find that ice cream forum brother??   ♫


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> Where can I find that ice cream forum brother??   ♫


Lol

Still no GR07BE?


----------



## saurabh213

Hello guys
Pls tell which is the best kz iem among ed8,ed9,ed10,kz gr ??
Need to oder asap

Little more bass always makes me happy
Also build quality should be good

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## saurabh213

Hello brother 
Pls can you compare sound magic es18 with kz ed9\ed8 ? Which is better?
Pls you must have tried es18 
Need a new iem under 1k inr pls help

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## NU62

ED9, then ED10.


----------



## saurabh213

I can see many many models of kz under 15$..
Pls can someone simplify and suggest me the best for me ?
I am looking for bass,clarity,durability and then comfort
Thanks 
Pls do reply

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## CADCAM

For me it's ED9, ED10 and then EDse. I do have the ATE on the way and will post opinion.
  
 btw Hisoundfi I've enjoyed your posts and found then well written and helpful. Looking forward to future posts from members and future products from Kz!


----------



## CADCAM

hrad2 said:


> Guys, should i buy ANV for 9.98 USD?


 
 Make sure its ANV and not CM9.


----------



## Charliemotta

I just got the mail in and your large box, Thanks.  However with such a big box I figured you must have used brats, cheese curds, and kringle etc. for packaging.
   That was not the case.  I guess that coming in a separate box.


----------



## saurabh213

cadcam said:


> For me it's ED9, ED10 and then EDse. I do have the ATE on the way and will post opinion.
> 
> btw Hisoundfi I've enjoyed your posts and found then well written and helpful. Looking forward to future posts from members and future products from Kz!



Hiw is kz ed9 compared to piston 3!!?

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hisoundfi

charliemotta said:


> I just got the mail in and your large box, Thanks.  However with such a big box I figured you must have used brats, cheese curds, and kringle etc. for packaging.
> That was not the case.  I guess that coming in a separate box.


That will come with the next set of earphones.  

Cheers buddy!


----------



## Charliemotta

Okay but you might want to start looking for a bigger box!


----------



## Chief Stringer

hisoundfi said:


> If you guys want any done please lmk. I'd be happy to provide them.




Id certainly be happy to see some dude, especially how the gold and brass filter ed9s compare too


----------



## Hisoundfi

When I get home from work in a few hours I'll jump on and do requests  

Guys, there's a great and positive way to enjoy this hobby. We have lots of fun over on "the lab" thread. All of you are welcome to chime in, just keep it positive. 

I'll be on in a few hours. I look forward to making some graphs for yall!


----------



## Djinnenjous

I'm _still _waiting on my ED10s over here. The seller shipped them sixteen days ago and the latest tracking information (from August 24th) still says, "Dispatched to country via air mail" or whatever. I haven't opened a complaint yet because sure as s**t, the second I do they will arrive in my mailbox. I figured I'd try to be patient for a few more days but it's getting to be kind of difficult.


----------



## Hisoundfi

djinnenjous said:


> I'm _still _waiting on my ED10s over here. The seller shipped them sixteen days ago and the latest tracking information (from August 24th) still says, "Dispatched to country via air mail" or whatever. I haven't opened a complaint yet because sure as s**t, the second I do they will arrive in my mailbox. I figured I'd try to be patient for a few more days but it's getting to be kind of difficult.


Let me guess, Aliexpress? 

If so it can take up to 45 days some times


----------



## Charliemotta

It's only been a week, wait another 3-4.


----------



## Djinnenjous

hisoundfi said:


> Let me guess, Aliexpress?
> 
> If so it can take up to 45 days some times


 
 . . .
  


charliemotta said:


> It's only been a week, wait another 3-4.


 
 . . .
  
 Yeah, that'll be my first _and_ last order from this site.


----------



## r2muchstuff

djinnenjous said:


> I'm _still _waiting on my ED10s over here. The seller shipped them sixteen days ago and the latest tracking information (from August 24th) still says, "Dispatched to country via air mail" or whatever. I haven't opened a complaint yet because sure as s**t, the second I do they will arrive in my mailbox. I figured I'd try to be patient for a few more days but it's getting to be kind of difficult.


 
 I am also in NC.

 I have ordered several times from Ali over the past year or so.  Mostly from the KZ official store, but some others too.  Quickest delivery was 14 days. Longest was 28 days.  However, all orders arrived.  Inexpensive stuff and free international shipping requires patients.  Good things do come 
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## Djinnenjous

The whole reason I went with AliExpress was that I couldn't find these things on Amazon. Less than one minute ago I ran an Amazon search for "KZ ED10" and found that they're available, with Prime shipping. I'd gladly have paid the additional $10 to actually have them this semester.


----------



## Hisoundfi

djinnenjous said:


> The whole reason I went with AliExpress was that I couldn't find these things on Amazon. Less than one minute ago I ran an Amazon search for "KZ ED10" and found that they're available, with Prime shipping. I'd gladly have paid the additional $10 to actually have them this semester.


 
 Look on the bright side. As soon as you ordered them an employee of their store threw them in their boat and started paddling them across the Pacific Ocean just so they could arrive at your doorstep before the new year.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Massa Wokei was the guy who got me into KZ when I had my doubts about them. It was a great decision listening to him.
> 
> That was during the ED3, EDSE and Micro Ring days.
> 
> All of those are very decent. There's some KZ stuff that I've listened to for five minutes and said "nope, never again" because they sounded very mediocre. However, I've never regretted buying any KZ because for every "meh" pair there's two other models that punch WAY beyond their price tag.


 

 +1 ....and so does the quality for there asking price, too!


----------



## Hisoundfi

saurabh213 said:


> Hello guys
> Pls tell which is the best kz iem among ed8,ed9,ed10,kz gr ??
> Need to oder asap
> 
> ...


 
 What kind of music do you listen to?
  
 What is your source?


----------



## Lohb

Yes, I still love ED9 over ED10 after ED10 settled in, but I think I'm in the minority that love the gold nozzle character signature and tonality on ED9s


----------



## Hisoundfi

This graph does nothing but show me how awesome, and versatile the KZ ED9 is.


----------



## RedTwilight

hisoundfi said:


> This graph does nothing but show me how awesome, and versatile the KZ ED9 is.


 
  
 Thanks! Wow the gold filters boosted the bass without touching the mids and treble at all. Maybe I should give my pair another chance.. What tips do you use?


----------



## B9Scrambler

lohb said:


> Yes, I still love ED9 over ED10 after ED10 settled in, but I think I'm in the minority that love the gold nozzle character signature and tonality on ED9s




I'm right there with you on the gold nozzles, however I prefer the ED10 to every other KZ.


----------



## Djinnenjous

hisoundfi said:


> Look on the bright side. As soon as you ordered them an employee of their store threw them in their boat and started paddling them across the Pacific Ocean just so they could arrive at your doorstep before the new year.


 
 You just won the entire thread, right there. Thanks.


----------



## Hisoundfi

djinnenjous said:


> You just won the entire thread, right there. Thanks.


LOL, what is my prize?


----------



## mebaali

saurabh213 said:


> Hello brother
> Pls can you compare sound magic es18 with kz ed9\ed8 ? Which is better?
> Pls you must have tried es18
> Need a new iem under 1k inr pls help
> ...




Guess you are gonna buy from HIFINAGE, then go for ED9. (ES18 to my ears, has way too bass bloat and less detail retrieval in comparison against ED9)


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lohb

The ED9 my current travel light-weight savior ,straight off my Air in a diver type waterproof bag.
 Torrential rain where I am just now.. My 'DAP' in a sling.

 It is amazing how Audirvana+ has changed since 1.5x version....that gear even sounds very good out the lowly internal cirrus DAC.


----------



## ayao

Just got my ED10. OOTB I'm really liking them, but mine suffers from channel imbalance below 40hz which is a bit unfortunate. I would definitely buy another if it weren't for some recent purchases (U8 to U12 upgrade and KZ ZN1), but for now I'll be recommending the ED10 over the DT3 to my friends.
  
 I was interested enough to order the Vibrolabs Veritas as well


----------



## EISENbricher

ayao said:


> Just got my ED10. OOTB I'm really liking them, but mine suffers from channel imbalance below 40hz which is a bit unfortunate. I would definitely buy another if it weren't for some recent purchases (U8 to U12 upgrade and KZ ZN1), but for now I'll be recommending the ED10 over the DT3 to my friends.
> 
> I was interested enough to order the Vibrolabs Veritas as well


 
 ED10 over DT3 is a no brainer. I own both and DT3 can't match the detailed sound of ED10.


----------



## saurabh213

mebaali said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello brother
> ...




Can buy from aliexpress too..
What is the difference between ed8 and ed9 ?





Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## saurabh213

hisoundfi said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello guys
> ...



Generally pop,
Source would be my lenovo smartphone


Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## dwayniac

I have given the GK much more listening time and I like it much more than my initial opinion. I think it is a good all-rounder second to my Yamaha EPH-100.


----------



## saurabh213

Pls someone do a comparison between piston 3 and ed8\ed9

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## CoiL

ilikeiem should have them all, send PM to him 


dwayniac said:


> I have given the GK much more listening time and I like it much more than my initial opinion. I think it is a good all-rounder second to my Yamaha EPH-100.


 
 GK?


----------



## dwayniac

Oops.I mean GR.


----------



## aaDee

saurabh213 said:


> Generally pop,
> Source would be my lenovo smartphone
> 
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


if you are going to use on Lenovo go for ED9. I've listened to them on A7000 with Dolby atmos, and they were awesome. Huge sound and great surround sound.


----------



## saurabh213

aadee said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Generally pop,
> ...



Where should i buy them from?



Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## aaDee

saurabh213 said:


> Where should i buy them from?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk



I brought them from aliexpress when they were available for $6. But now general price is around $12-13 which is similar to rs.750 and they are available for the same price on hifinage.


----------



## mebaali

saurabh213 said:


> Can buy from aliexpress too..
> What is the difference between ed8 and ed9 ?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I do not own ED8 (@EISENbricher might be able to give you his impressions on that, he owns most of the KZ IEMs), so can't compare the two.
  
 Out of 4 KZ IEMs (EDSE, ES, ATE, ED9) that I own, I prefer ATE for my music tastes/source gear (more than ED9, this may change once my ED10 arrives).


----------



## Lohb

mebaali said:


> I do not own ED8 (@EISENbricher might be able to give you his impressions on that, he owns most of the KZ IEMs), so can't compare the two.
> 
> Out of 4 KZ IEMs (EDSE, ES, ATE, ED9) that I own, I prefer ATE for my music tastes/source gear (more than ED9, this may change once my ED10 arrives).


 

 What does ATE have over the other IEMs you have. My listen on ATE was pretty brief.


----------



## mebaali

lohb said:


> What does ATE have over the other IEMs you have. My listen on ATE was pretty brief.


 
 I find EDSE and ED9 (with Brass filter) to be of overly bright for my ears while ES is pretty balanced (used to be my favt KZ IEM till recently), I like the soundstage/bass presentation/vocals/smoothed out treble of ATE the most over the others (kinda gives me non-fatiguing sound for long hours of listening). YMMV


----------



## Lohb

mebaali said:


> I find EDSE and ED9 (with Brass filter) to be of overly bright for my ears while ES is pretty balanced (used to be my favt KZ IEM till recently), I like the soundstage/bass presentation/vocals/smoothed out treble of ATE the most over the others (kinda gives me non-fatiguing sound for long hours of listening). YMMV


 

 Yep, smoothed out.
 Think I read that before - like, say, NAD HP-50....but I missed the micro-detail finally with the HP-50s.


----------



## CoiL

ATE


mebaali said:


> lohb said:
> 
> 
> > What does ATE have over the other IEMs you have. My listen on ATE was pretty brief.
> ...


 

 Same here. Also, additionally, ATE has better soundstage width (and separation in that direction).
 ATE seems to suit better for those ppl who are sensitive to highs and like long session listening. Talking about unmodded ATE with silicone tips.
 Though, ED9 brass filters can be foam-modded to smoothen littlebit bright highs and are also very pleasant to listen this way.
 ED10 has basically same soundstage as ATE but vocals are littlebit less natural (mids) and has littlebit more sub-bass. ED10 highs aren`t bright as ED9(brass) but also not smooth as stock ATE. Somwhere in between those areas.


----------



## Chief Stringer

hisoundfi said:


> This graph does nothing but show me how awesome, and versatile the KZ ED9 is.




Wasnt expecting that big of a difference


----------



## Lohb

hisoundfi said:


> This graph does nothing but show me how awesome, and versatile the KZ ED9 is.


 

 I wonder if the gold nozzle is similar to the Harman Kardon "pleasing to the ear FR curve" for headphones.  I think the NAD HP-50 follows the Harman curve idea (aka forget the flat-liner monitor aim), but is different in other respects.


----------



## saurabh213

mebaali said:


> lohb said:
> 
> 
> > What does ATE have over the other IEMs you have. My listen on ATE was pretty brief.
> ...



What does bright mean here ?

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## mebaali

saurabh213 said:


> What does bright mean here ?
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


 
*"Bright* - A sound that emphasizes the upper midrange/lower treble. Harmonics are strong relative to fundamentals."
  
(taken the above quote from headfi sound glossary thread)


----------



## infer

saurabh213 said:


> What does bright mean here ?
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


 
head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## saurabh213

mebaali said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > What does bright mean here ?
> ...

Then i don't want my iem to be very bright..
I want bass without compromising on overall clarity..
Which one would be better
Have you tried piston3/2 ??


----------



## aaDee

saurabh213 said:


> Where should i buy them from?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


For ED9 to sound best the foam mod is a must imho.


----------



## mebaali

saurabh213 said:


> Then i don't want my iem to be very bright..
> I want bass without compromising on overall clarity..
> Which one would be better
> Have you tried piston3/2 ??


 
 Have them both.
  
 I didn't liked the sound signature of Piston 3 (bass lite and less entertaining) but I really dig the sound of Piston 2 (with over 100 hours of usage they are very fun sounding earphones to listen to for the right kind of music genres + they fit my ear canal perfectly which Piston 3 struggles to do despite trying with multitudes of different tips). Piston 2 are one of my go to IEMs outside KZs for casual listening.
  
 edit: since this thread is for KZs, I do not want to go further off-topic. We can discuss this over PM if you want


----------



## saurabh213

mebaali said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Then i don't want my iem to be very bright..
> ...



I just wanted a comparison between p3 and kz ed9 as i have p3 but i don't like it and yes the fit thing you said is true

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## CoiL

saurabh213, if You already have P3 then instead ED9 I recommend to get ED10. Like I already said:
  


coil said:


> mebaali said:
> 
> 
> > lohb said:
> ...


----------



## Trapok

saurabh213 said:


> Can buy from aliexpress too..
> What is the difference between ed8 and ed9 ?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ED8 si a self defense weapon


----------



## eaglearrow

Anyone tried the LP3 yet?


----------



## saurabh213

trapok said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Can buy from aliexpress too..
> ...



Lol... how?

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> Let me guess, Aliexpress?
> 
> If so it can take up to 45 days some times


 

 It can, all of mine from Ali have come within two weeks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thank you Vince for making me KZ
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL All me mic'd versions are in the car to throw down on the i6 when running errands
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 My prefs are the 9's, 10's and ATE, but in order of bass extension at least for my old ears are 9's, ATE then the 10's


----------



## CADCAM

Listening to the ED10 playing some Providence & Starless by King Crimson and it's not too shabby...not too shabby at all. The bass is fantastic for a $8.50 headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for $12.00 the ED9 with brass nozzles with stock filters in place dig deeper into the detail for me and my set-up which = NAD C542 into a Beresford Bushmaster MKII DAC into a Capella amp. I know the cd player retailed for over $400 and the DAC & amp are another $400 plus but I feel a clean quality signal in can only make a good headphone sound even better!
 Still waiting on my ATE's...


----------



## SWLIU

Just received the KZ ZN1 in California, It is like ATE on steroid, and a bit clumsy to use because of the extra weight from the "EQBOX". The passive mode does not work from my MOTO X phone. And it just does not work at all with the Monoprice DAC/Amp. Weird. BTW, according to the manual, KZ uses special diaphragm design to reduce the burn-in time from 200 hours to 5 min.


----------



## CADCAM

swliu said:


> Just received the KZ ZN1 in California, It is like ATE on steroid, and a bit clumsy to use because of the extra weight from the "EQBOX". The passive mode does not work from my MOTO X phone. And it just does not work at all with the Monoprice DAC/Amp. Weird. BTW, according to the manual, KZ uses special diaphragm design to reduce the burn-in time from 200 hours to 5 min.


 

 So if you could do it all over knowing what you know now, would you buy them again? I know your in the infancy stages of listening to them but are they that much better than the other current Kz's??


----------



## SWLIU

cadcam said:


> So if you could do it all over knowing what you know now, would you buy them again? I know your in the infancy stages of listening to them but are they that much better than the other current Kz's??


 
 I ordered from Amazon for $49 so it was not cheap, but I was curious about the new design so for that I am OK to spend the money to support KZ's effort. As for the purpose of listening to music, I probably would spend that money for something like Soundmagic E80, instead.


----------



## RedTwilight

saurabh213 said:


> Then i don't want my iem to be very bright..
> I want bass without compromising on overall clarity..
> Which one would be better
> Have you tried piston3/2 ??


 
  
 I don't particularly like over-bright sounding iems as well, but I find the ED10 very nice and the ATE is quite clear and relaxing. If you put them in your ears and it's all tinny and bassless then they're probably not inserted deeply enough as I discovered ytd.


----------



## ajaxender

I caught the postman when I popped home at lunch today, and he gave me a box of KZ's. So... I was wrong about china-post. 10 day shipping! Thats good by any measure. I guess it helps that NZ isn't so far away, and it definitely seems that packages are dealt with much faster than envelopes. 
  
 I unpacked them but had no time to listen. I got ED10, ED8, ATE, EDSE (I think) and a solid black one that I can never remember the name, haha.
  
 I'm impressed by the packaging - not exactly high end but nice and simple, tidy little boxes, or the shield things for ED10 and ATE. Its just that step better than you expect for the price. 
  
 The biggest impression so far is that this guy is correct:
 Quote:


trapok said:


> ED8 si a self defense weapon


----------



## SWLIU

swliu said:


> Just received the KZ ZN1 in California, It is like ATE on steroid, and a bit clumsy to use because of the extra weight from the "EQBOX". The passive mode does not work from my MOTO X phone. And it just does not work at all with the Monoprice DAC/Amp. Weird. BTW, according to the manual, KZ uses special diaphragm design to reduce the burn-in time from 200 hours to 5 min.


 
 Just found out the left and right earpieces are switched. Also it does not work with Monoprice DAC/Amp or Fiio X1, too much statics to even hear the music. It does work with my smart phone, however, it is very sensitive to the plug contact and little wiggle sends lound popping sound to my ears. Clearly not ready for the big stage. Returning it now


----------



## Trapok

saurabh213 said:


> Lol... how?



Cause it is really heavy


----------



## saurabh213

trapok said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol... how?
> ...



I was thinking to buy ed8 but its unusual design made me back off..it looks very uncomfortable..
Still can't decide between ed9,ed10 and edse..

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## EISENbricher

trapok said:


> ED8 si a self defense weapon


 
 This. Is the Truth. Use it like a sling or flail(don't know correct term) to knock out ppl.


----------



## RedTwilight

saurabh213 said:


> I was thinking to buy ed8 but its unusual design made me back off..it looks very uncomfortable..
> Still can't decide between ed9,ed10 and edse..
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


 
  
 You probably won't regret getting ED10. Or ATE. 
  


eisenbricher said:


> This. Is the Truth. Use it like a sling or flail(don't know correct term) to knock out ppl.


 
  
 Flail haha.. Or fling it as a bola.


----------



## TwinACStacks

The ED8 was so heavy it fell out of my ears.  OR maybe the Bass forcibly ejected them....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Hisoundfi

ED9 is a "best of both worlds" IEM in a sense that you can switch filters and go from a fun bassy signature to a very natural sound. 

If I were interested in KZ and was looking to get my first pair I would get them and see what I like best, then order the next one based on which filter I like best.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Or you could just buy all of them. They are so cheap it's an option.


----------



## CADCAM

hisoundfi said:


> ED9 is a "best of both worlds" IEM in a sense that you can switch filters and go from a fun bassy signature to a very natural sound.
> 
> If I were interested in KZ and was looking to get my first pair I would get them and see what I like best, then order the next one based on which filter I like best.


 
 Yes, I would have to agree the ED9 is versatile and with the 2nd set of nozzles is my "go to" IEM right now.
 Experimenting with foam in the gold nozzles has worked wonders and the brass nozzles are excellent... just make sure those tiny paper filters are in the correct position on the inside of the nozzle.
 I ended up using an air filter material in the gold nozzles and they sound very good now... you can modulate how much "filtering" you want by the amount of material used. 
 I am really enjoying the ED10 also which has some great low end. I think these two Kz's are no brainers and are superior IMHO to my EDse's which are also pretty good btw. 
 Still waiting on my ATE...


----------



## voxxonline

Guys, I wonder how long my ED10 will last?
 What would be expected lifespan of these IEM's ?


----------



## Hisoundfi

voxxonline said:


> Guys, I wonder how long my ED10 will last?
> What would be expected lifespan of these IEM's ?


At least two or three weeks. 

Jkjk

If they don't have defects when they come in, and you take good care of them you shouldn't have any problems


----------



## Hisoundfi

swliu said:


> Just found out the left and right earpieces are switched. Also it does not work with Monoprice DAC/Amp or Fiio X1, too much statics to even hear the music. It does work with my smart phone, however, it is very sensitive to the plug contact and little wiggle sends lound popping sound to my ears. Clearly not ready for the big stage. Returning it now


Ya, I'm not happy with my ZN1. They pick up a ton of EMI when music isn't playing, and the jack only works in smart phones (doesn't work with my DAPs) I can get them to sound pretty phenomenal with the bass/treble adjustment buttons, but these are an unrefined product that has a ton of potential. I wish they would have worked out what I would consider major design flaws before they released it. 

Why not make the amp separate? I don't get it.


----------



## chavez

hisoundfi said:


> Ya, I'm not happy with my ZN1. They pick up a ton of EMI when music isn't playing, and the jack only works in smart phones (doesn't work with my DAPs) I can get them to sound pretty phenomenal with the bass/treble adjustment buttons, but these are an unrefined product that has a ton of potential. I wish they would have worked out what I would consider major design flaws before they released it.
> 
> Why not make the amp separate? I don't get it.


 
 Its their first time with something like this.They will do better for sure,we all know that  .


----------



## HiFiChris

Where did you get yours, Hisoundfi?
I ordered mine on Aliexpress (as I was the one who first discovered and posted the huge discount in this thread), but haven't received the package yet (though the seller said it would be sent by express mail), and the tracking link isn't working either. 

What's up with the jack, what feature doesn't work with DAPs?


----------



## EISENbricher

voxxonline said:


> Guys, I wonder how long my ED10 will last?
> What would be expected lifespan of these IEM's ?


 
 Its built like a tank. I don't see anything happening to my pair at least for an year.


----------



## Trapok

Deleted


----------



## Grayson73

eisenbricher said:


> Rule of thumb is never pay above $10-12 for KZ phones. You might have come across some messed up seller. For example, I had paid only $4.50 for my R1, shipping included.
> You should be able to get ED10 under $10.


 
  
 Oh man you put ED10 over Tenore.  Now I'm intrigued


----------



## EISENbricher

grayson73 said:


> Oh man you put ED10 over Tenore.  Now I'm intrigued


 
 There's no, no absolute doubt that these things are too good for the asking price.
  
 Of course my list is according to my own preference and considers SQ + BQ collectively.


----------



## bhazard

hisoundfi said:


> Ya, I'm not happy with my ZN1. They pick up a ton of EMI when music isn't playing, and the jack only works in smart phones (doesn't work with my DAPs) I can get them to sound pretty phenomenal with the bass/treble adjustment buttons, but these are an unrefined product that has a ton of potential. I wish they would have worked out what I would consider major design flaws before they released it.
> 
> Why not make the amp separate? I don't get it.


 
 For you guys having trouble with DAPs, you probably need this CTIA to OTMP adapter:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/251457150139?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82


----------



## TwinACStacks

Here is the Seller that I use for quite a few of my KZ's and BOTH pairs of ED10s. Teresa is a Reliable , great seller. Plus her prices are very good.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
  








 TWIN


----------



## codearm2

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aquapel-KZ-ed2-Refined-Version-The-Phone-Headset-Wire-Headset-Music-Earphone-Metal-Earphone-Ear-Headphones/32283827134.html
  
 IS EDSE and ED2 the same?


----------



## Trapok

twinacstacks said:


> Here is the Seller that I use for quite a few of my KZ's and BOTH pairs of ED10s. Teresa is a Reliable , great seller. Plus her prices are very good.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-KZ-Earphone-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ED10-In-Ear-Earphones-Stereo-Headset-HiFi-Headphones/32385014226.html
> 
> TWIN


I agree, reliable seller good price(ED10 for 8.xx$) and fast shopping(to France)


----------



## JamesBr

trapok said:


> I agree, reliable seller good price(ED10 for 8.xx$) and fast shopping(to France)


 
 That's what I was wondering, if the shipping is decent. Good to know


----------



## Brian Coffey

Ordered mine on 8/25 and received them on 9/2 in North Carolina. Same vendor. They are FAST !


----------



## Chief Stringer

I ordered the Ed9 & ATE on July 25th on a site called gearbest.com, still waiting...


----------



## Chief Stringer

trapok said:


> I agree, reliable seller good price(ED10 for 8.xx$) and fast shopping(to France)




How long did it take for france? Just ordered them from that seller since im sick of waiting for my others to come, on the basis they might actually get here quicker lol, i guess not knowing when they are gonna show up and being surprised when they do is part of the kz experience?


----------



## CoiL

Recommending these tips for KZ lovers: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 I think I have found new favourite silicone tips with wide bore and for small ear-canals. Using them now on my modded ATE and ED10.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Recommending these tips for KZ lovers: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> I think I have found new favourite silicone tips with wide bore and for small ear-canals. Using them now on my modded ATE and ED10.


 
 Thanks CoiL, here's a link for those in the USA~
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-10-pcs-REPLACEMENT-SILICONE-IN-EAR-EARPHONE-TIPS-EARBUDS-SENNHEISER-CX300-/141721545729?hash=item20ff432c01


----------



## Trapok

chief stringer said:


> How long did it take for france? Just ordered them from that seller since im sick of waiting for my others to come, on the basis they might actually get here quicker lol, i guess not knowing when they are gonna show up and being surprised when they do is part of the kz experience?


 
  
 For me only 10 days


----------



## FLiPKicks

I just received my ED10 from Teresa and I don't seem to be getting the bass that everyone is claiming compared to ED9 bronze/gold. I can hear a hint of Sub-bass. Could my ED10 be faulty? My ED9 with bronze has more pronounced mid/sub bass than the ED10 OOTB. Also will burn-in help?


----------



## Chief Stringer

trapok said:


> For me only 10 days




Sounds good man hoping UK will be similar


----------



## CADCAM

flipkicks said:


> I just received my ED10 from Teresa and I don't seem to be getting the bass that everyone is claiming compared to ED9 bronze/gold. I can hear a hint of Sub-bass. Could my ED10 be faulty? My ED9 with bronze has more pronounced mid/sub bass than the ED10 OOTB. Also will burn-in help?


 

 Tips, tips & tips...I have a bag of tips now and what a difference swapping tips can make. I'm going to try the ones CoiL suggested also as I have small ears\canals also. Try some different tips and the ED10 should be producing some impressive bass.
  
 Just got my second "backup" pair of ED9's in today (took forever) and unlike my first pair these sound great right out of the sealed package
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The gold nozzles also already have some type of foam in them. My first pair didn't... also the tips are all red bore I believe my first pair only had one pair of red bore tips the rest were all black but I may be wrong on that as I have so many tips now...anyway the right tip make it all come together.


----------



## CADCAM

So... listening to my new ED9 I just got in today (they also sent a free case!) and out of the package they sound absolutely amazing! These sound very balanced with great depth of detail. Cymbals sound realistic and natural, bass is just right I'm smiling as I type.
 Now my first set sounded totally awful out of the box and needed extensive burn-in so either these are just an amazing pair or my hearing has been permanently altered by Kz...


----------



## Lohb

Yes, the treble hit on my 9s with gold nozzle is just great.
 I'm treble sensitive and what they present is spot-on for me, neither recessed/muffled or nails down the blackboard grating treble.


----------



## Chief Stringer

cadcam said:


> So... listening to my new ED9 I just got in today (they also sent a free case!) and out of the package they sound absolutely amazing! These sound very balanced with great depth of detail. Cymbals sound realistic and natural, bass is just right I'm smiling as I type.
> Now my first set sounded totally awful out of the box and needed extensive burn-in so either these are just an amazing pair or my hearing has been permanently altered by Kz...:eek:




Brain burn in perhaps? Or have you done the same with other backup 'phones and this hasn't been the case?
Would be reassuring rather than it being a result of qc issues...


----------



## CADCAM

chief stringer said:


> Brain burn in perhaps? Or have you done the same with other backup 'phones and this hasn't been the case?
> Would be reassuring rather than it being a result of qc issues...


 

 Just kiddin' around dude. My first pair was awful sounding to be sure and these sound like them after a few hundred hours of burn, perhaps even a smidge better but from what I've read it may be a QC issue. I put the new pair on the burn-in station ( even though they sound great) and am listening to the "old" ones. They sound virtually the same but I have a different type of foam in my gold nozzles.
  
 What I do do to check a bunch of new headphones out is take a cd I'm very familiar with on my main system (right now I'm using Jean-Luc Ponty ~ No Absolute Time, great musicians...impeccable recording) and listen to it from the HD600. I really like this headphone, it has a great smooth vintage tone to it IMO and gives me a sort of headphone base line. Anyway the ED9 & ED10 are cheap IEM champs! I have the Philips, Mrice and Pistons and believe the Kz's are better in my setup. The ED9 is my favorite right now but I am waiting on the ATE so we will see...


----------



## saurabh213

Which is better and bassier 
Ed9 or ed10 ?

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## ayao

saurabh213 said:


> Which is better and bassier
> Ed9 or ed10 ?
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


 
 ED10 is bassier. There's no better or worse since it's up to personal preference.


----------



## saurabh213

ayao said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Which is better and bassier
> ...




So,
What are the differences ??

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ruben123

Ed10's fit is very much better because of the lower weight and smaller size. Don't use ed9's gold filter and have only heard ed10 very short so can't comment on sq.


----------



## Lohb

ruben123 said:


> Ed10's fit is very much better because of the lower weight and smaller size. Don't use ed9's gold filter and have only heard ed10 very short so can't comment on sq.


 

 ED9 are fine with those add-on ear hooks whatever they are called.


----------



## peter123

I find the fit of the ED9 to be great and I have really narrow ear canals.


----------



## ebrian

Hello folks, I've been away from headfi for about 6 months and my wallet is full again (not really).
  
 I have been enjoying the use of my Tenore's a lot lately, but noticed that the right side appears to be going in and out.  A quick suck on the nozzle seems to fix it but it has been happening more frequently of late.  Of my other favorite, the KC06 continues to reek havoc on my ear lobes, giving me some sort of strange itchy rash whenever I use them.  Someone suggested some nail polish to protect me from the metal/plastic shell but I never got around to doing that.
  
 A friend of mine told me about this thread and so I went ahead and bought the ED10 and ATE models, they'll probably be here in a month or so.


----------



## Grayson73

eisenbricher said:


> There's no, no absolute doubt that these things are too good for the asking price.
> 
> Of course my list is according to my own preference and considers SQ + BQ collectively.


 
 What is BQ?


----------



## mebaali

grayson73 said:


> What is BQ?


 

 Build Quality (?)


----------



## vad0s

Hello guys, 
 I´ve been reading this thread for like 1-2 hours and you made me to buy one of those KZ headphones. I mainly listen to dnb, electro, rap, so I would prefer more bassy sound, I dont like too much bright sound. I have owned Piston 2 (dead), Sony MH1C (still got em, like their sound, but the cable/comfort isnt very well) and I also own Superlux HD 662. I would like to get a earphones, which sounds somewhere between MH1C and HD 662. I cant decide between ATE and ED10. Could someone compare their sound and comfort? I always wanted to try ATE´s "behind the ear construction" or however you want to call it, but also I like the ED10´s tips more and also I do like its desing. So my question is, how do these headphones sound compared to themselves? Or If someone could compare these IEMs to Sony MH1C, that would be also great. 
  
 Btw I tried to find ED10 under the Official KZ Store, but it is probably out of stock. Where can I buy them now for the cheapest price? Is this seller legit? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.9GOwgT&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_5,201409_3
  
 Edit: Does the ED10 come with the add-onn ear hook stuff? 
  
  
 Thanks for your help.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

flipkicks said:


> I just received my ED10 from Teresa and I don't seem to be getting the bass that everyone is claiming compared to ED9 bronze/gold. I can hear a hint of Sub-bass. Could my ED10 be faulty? My ED9 with bronze has more pronounced mid/sub bass than the ED10 OOTB. Also will burn-in help?


 
 I thought so when I received my ED10 as well, but after trying different tips I realized that the blue tips that came with them (which supposed to be Medium size) are actually smaller than Medium.
 So I ordered these: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3pcs-3-Size-In-Ear-Bud-Earphone-Covers-Headphones-Gel-Tip-Case-Replacement-Silicone-Earbuds-Ear/32366635375.html
 And use the Large tips. I get a perfect seal and the bass is immense! Better than KZ IE80, KZ ED2, KZ GR and also the awesome VJJB V1.


----------



## kaiteck

mebaali said:


> Build Quality (?)



BQ.. Can be bass quality or bass quantity or build quality. Hated this shortform.


----------



## kaiteck

vad0s said:


> Hello guys,
> I´ve been reading this thread for like 1-2 hours and you made me to buy one of those KZ headphones. I mainly listen to dnb, electro, rap, so I would prefer more bassy sound, I dont like too much bright sound. I have owned Piston 2 (dead), Sony MH1C (still got em, like their sound, but the cable/comfort isnt very well) and I also own Superlux HD 662. I would like to get a earphones, which sounds somewhere between MH1C and HD 662. I cant decide between ATE and ED10. Could someone compare their sound and comfort? I always wanted to try ATE´s "behind the ear construction" or however you want to call it, but also I like the ED10´s tips more and also I do like its desing. So my question is, how do these headphones sound compared to themselves? Or If someone could compare these IEMs to Sony MH1C, that would be also great.
> 
> Btw I tried to find ED10 under the Official KZ Store, but it is probably out of stock. Where can I buy them now for the cheapest price? Is this seller legit? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.9GOwgT&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_5,201409_3
> ...


 no earhook is provided but they can be purchase $2 on ebay


----------



## Shawn71

kaiteck said:


> BQ.. Can be bass quality or bass quantity or build quality. Hated this shortform.


 

 SQ and BQ are quite mentioned on a hi-level just like SS (Sound Stage) or DD (Dynamic Driver) or BA (Balanced Armature) as short-form.....The bass quality/quantity are never expressed in short-form (as SQ) in reviews/impressions, even under sound section.
  
 If you get used to it,you wont hate it.


----------



## salawat

Guys and Gals,
  
 my ed10's arrived yesterday, and I've got to say, I am literally amazed by it's sound quality, like don't get me wrong, I've used good iem's before - some diy, some other chinese brands - vsonic, xiaomi, other KZ, QKZ, Mannhas, Moxpad, VJJC, havi and so on.
  
 But these literally made me go "wow" while listening to them. I have some old school low quality music and it even made those tracks sound good. so far the highs don't sound too piercing (am very sensitive to highs) and the bass is strong but clean - it doesn't sound muffled if that makes sense.
  
 Love the packaging as well - will probably be buying 4-5 sets to give away as presents.
  
 and in terms of the other KZ ( which I've bought 80-90% of all of them) it whitewashes all of them. I mean the ED9's are good but these ED10's are next level when compared to the ED9's.
  
 Good work KZ


----------



## saurabh213

So should i go for kz ed10 as my first kz iem ?

I own piston 3 but i feel it lacks bass..
How is ed10 compared to p3 
pls anyone.. Need to order asap
Can't decide between ed9 and ed10

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## eaglearrow

vad0s said:


> Hello guys,
> I´ve been reading this thread for like 1-2 hours and you made me to buy one of those KZ headphones. I mainly listen to dnb, electro, rap, so I would prefer more bassy sound, I dont like too much bright sound. I have owned Piston 2 (dead), Sony MH1C (still got em, like their sound, but the cable/comfort isnt very well) and I also own Superlux HD 662. I would like to get a earphones, which sounds somewhere between MH1C and HD 662. I cant decide between ATE and ED10. Could someone compare their sound and comfort? I always wanted to try ATE´s "behind the ear construction" or however you want to call it, but also I like the ED10´s tips more and also I do like its desing. So my question is, how do these headphones sound compared to themselves? Or If someone could compare these IEMs to Sony MH1C, that would be also great.
> 
> Btw I tried to find ED10 under the Official KZ Store, but it is probably out of stock. Where can I buy them now for the cheapest price? Is this seller legit? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.9GOwgT&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_5,201409_3
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the seller is legit. I bought from them and they are good.
  
 But wait. why is he selling for $27? i bought it for $8 from him.


----------



## vad0s

So, I have bought ED10 for $8,6. The seller had discount on them, now they cost $27.I think they will fit perfectly for me. Maybe if there will be ATE on sale, I'll buy them too. Can you give me some links, where I can buy ear hooks? Also if you know some good tips for ED10, you can post them too.


----------



## dbhai

vad0s said:


> So, I have bought ED10 for $8,6. The seller had discount on them, now they cost $27.I think they will fit perfectly for me. Maybe if there will be ATE on sale, I'll buy them too. Can you give me some links, where I can buy ear hooks? Also if you know some good tips for ED10, you can post them too.


 
  
 I bought my ATE from here - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32350895239.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.215.F9JZ2S&ws_ab_test=201407_1,201444_5,201409_1 and they came with ear hooks in packaging, you can give a try


----------



## dbhai

saurabh213 said:


> So should i go for kz ed10 as my first kz iem ?
> 
> I own piston 3 but i feel it lacks bass..
> How is ed10 compared to p3
> ...


 
  
 You can buy both ED9 and ED10, and can enjoy different sound, and explore more, enjoy the experience with experiments 

 P.S.: I do not own ED9 or ED10 (on its way from aliexpress, though) but I trust in KZ


----------



## B9Scrambler

dbhai said:


> You can buy both ED9 and ED10, and can enjoy different sound, and explore more, enjoy the experience with experiments
> 
> 
> P.S.: I do not own ED9 or ED10 (on its way from aliexpress, though) but I trust in KZ




I own both and can support this suggestion. *thumbs up*


----------



## codearm2

Guys, KZ ED10 are the new kids on the block right?
I asked KZ official store in Aliexpress and they said they are not producing it anymore

Ordered 5 units from Teresa, cost $11 each includingshipping cost
Pretty pricey


----------



## saurabh213

dbhai said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > So should i go for kz ed10 as my first kz iem ?
> ...



Sorry but i can't right now..
Can you tell what type of sound they both have so i can order one asap

Sent from my Lenovo A6000 using Tapatalk


----------



## CoiL

ayao said:


> saurabh213 said:
> 
> 
> > Which is better and bassier
> ...


 
 I would say ED9 with gold nozzles is bassier than ED10
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Was expecting much more V-shaped signature as impressions suggested but thay are actually quite well balanced. Well, maybe it is QC issue but my pair of ED10 sounds very good and definitely has less bass than ED9 with gold nozzles. But it has little more bass than ED9 with brass nozzles and also not so bright/fatiguing highs. ED10 soundstage width and separation in that direction is also better than ED9. Comfort is also lot better than ED9.
 Unless You like to change nozzles and sound signature, I would have no reason to prefer ED9 over ED10 if I`d buy it again.
  
 IMHSO
  


vad0s said:


> Hello guys,
> I´ve been reading this thread for like 1-2 hours and you made me to buy one of those KZ headphones. I mainly listen to dnb, electro, rap, so I would prefer more bassy sound, I dont like too much bright sound. I have owned Piston 2 (dead), Sony MH1C (still got em, like their sound, but the cable/comfort isnt very well) and I also own Superlux HD 662. I would like to get a earphones, which sounds somewhere between MH1C and HD 662. I cant decide between ATE and ED10. Could someone compare their sound and comfort? I always wanted to try ATE´s "behind the ear construction" or however you want to call it, but also I like the ED10´s tips more and also I do like its desing. So my question is, how do these headphones sound compared to themselves? Or If someone could compare these IEMs to Sony MH1C, that would be also great.
> 
> Btw I tried to find ED10 under the Official KZ Store, but it is probably out of stock. Where can I buy them now for the cheapest price? Is this seller legit? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.9GOwgT&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_5,201409_3
> ...


 
 For those genres I would go with ED10 and it can also be worn over-ear.


----------



## Ruben123

How are ED10s mids and highs compared to brass ED9s? I ask so, because my ED9s are not sharp but rather warm sounding but people seem to find ED9 sharp, with lack of bass and ED10s should have not so sharp highs but because of the slight v-shape, its mids are not as clear as ED9s? Which of them is detail king by the way?


----------



## CoiL

I think I have found new best tips for my woodie ANV and idk atm If I`m willing to give up them for "tour" anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true&clk_rvr_id=893821896051&rmvSB=true
  
 Before I found best fit & sound with medium sized ED9 light-grey(not ED9 dark-grey tips) tips.
 These new tips are with littlebit firmer and pointier shape silicone (but still soft) and larger bore.
 I Rarely use medium sized tips due to my ear-canals being small/narrow but with ANV nozzle length and size it`s a must. 
 It improved littlebit sub-bass quantity and thump.
  
 I also find those new (but in smallest size) great with ED9 and ED10. Recommended buy for tip collection!
 Posted this information to tip-rolling thread also: http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/30#post_11893731


----------



## Ecstasy

Hey everyone,
  
 I just bought some KZ EDSE and all of the stock tips are pretty horrible. Can anyone recommend any alternative tips?
  
 I have pretty small ear canals and temporarily replaced the tips with the XS tips from my Xiaomi Piston 3's. These XS tips are really comfy and seemed to have enhanced the bass. Would Comply TX400 in size Small work as extra tips?
  
 Here's a pic:


----------



## hoshiyomi

coil said:


> I think I have found new best tips for my woodie ANV and idk atm If I`m willing to give up them for "tour" anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just wondering, when you removed the original anv backs, did you notice any increase in bass? I am comtemplating on whether to drill the back of stock anv shell to see if porting helps.


----------



## TwinACStacks

ecstasy said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I just bought some KZ EDSE and all of the stock tips are pretty horrible. Can anyone recommend any alternative tips?
> 
> ...


 





 I like Sony Medium Hybrids the best on them (Green core).
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> I think I have found new best tips for my woodie ANV and idk atm If I`m willing to give up them for "tour" anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 I Dunno I have a LOT of different tips on the KZs. I DO know that those Clear/Blue hybrid tips that came STOCK with the ED8 and other KZs are the worst tips I've ever heard on anything I have tried them on. They Kill the Bass and Body of any earphone I've put them on.
  
 When I'm in doubt I always try Auvios. They don't work every time but they do a pretty good percentage of the time.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

hoshiyomi said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I think I have found new best tips for my woodie ANV and idk atm If I`m willing to give up them for "tour" anymore
> ...


 
 No, didn`t notice any increase in bass quantity. Of course this is from psychoacoustic memory. Imo only ways to increase sub-bass quantity and impact is to get proper tips and maybe try foam inside nozzle (I`m not using it).
  


twinacstacks said:


> I DO know that those Clear/Blue hybrid tips that came STOCK with the ED8 and other KZs *are the worst tips I've ever heard on anything I have tried them on*. *They Kill the Bass and Body of any earphone I've put them on.*


 
 Another thing to me about Your personal preference what shows me that You like enhanced bass and V-shaped signature. Not that it`s bad, I just don`t follow Your sound preference and don`t agree about those KZ whirlwind tips.
 I`ve tried those original KZ blue whirlwinds with different IEMs and almost always good result. But I don`t understand atm why You are talking about those tips?
 The tips on my last posted eBay link are different and much better for ANV than KZ blue whirlwinds.


----------



## peter123

coil said:


> No, didn`t notice any increase in bass quantity. Of course this is from psychoacoustic memory. Imo only ways to increase sub-bass quantity and impact is to get proper tips and maybe try foam inside nozzle (I`m not using it).
> 
> Another thing to me about Your personal preference what shows me that You like enhanced bass and V-shaped signature. Not that it`s bad, I just don`t follow Your sound preference and d*on`t agree about those KZ whirlwind tips.
> I`ve tried those original KZ blue whirlwinds with different IEMs and almost always good result.* But I don`t understand atm why You are talking about those tips?
> The tips on my last posted eBay link are different and much better for ANV than KZ blue whirlwinds.




+1 on the bold part. I like them with quite a few different IEM's as well.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> No, didn`t notice any increase in bass quantity. Of course this is from psychoacoustic memory. Imo only ways to increase sub-bass quantity and impact is to get proper tips and maybe try foam inside nozzle (I`m not using it).
> 
> Another thing to me about Your personal preference what shows me that You like enhanced bass and V-shaped signature. Not that it`s bad, I just don`t follow Your sound preference and don`t agree about those KZ whirlwind tips.
> I`ve tried those original KZ blue whirlwinds with different IEMs and almost always good result. But I don`t understand atm why You are talking about those tips?
> The tips on my last posted eBay link are different and much better for ANV than KZ blue whirlwinds.


 





 They just reminded me of the Whirlwinds, I was just commenting on my impressions of the whirlwinds, not the Tips you have pictured. I wasn't aware you LIKED them.  Not necessarily Enhanced Bass but GOOD Solid Bass. If it's a little forward that's okay as well. My Preference is a "Modified" W. With a longer leg on the Bass side and forward Mids for Vocals, I'm a little sensitive to treble.
  
 I don't like ruler Flat and Tinny though. It HAS to have some BODY.
  








 TWIN


----------



## EISENbricher

twinacstacks said:


> I like Sony Medium Hybrids the best on them (Aqua core).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Aqua core is Large I believe. I have all 4 sizes of hybrids, Pink, Orange, Green and Aqua in ascending order of size. I think Green is medium.


----------



## CADCAM

Strangely enough I like the small blue whirlwind tips with my ED10's bass is strong and they sound good but I bought a pair (of ED10) for my son and he hates the blue whirlwinds... says it takes all the bass away??
 You would think that we would have similar shaped ear canals but I guess not. Just goes to show that what works for one person does not mean it will work for someone else even it they are from the same tribe.


----------



## ajaxender

I think the thing with the whirlwinds is they are quite stiff - not so much the silicone outside but the bore itself, and this means if they don't work, they really really don't work. The TTPOD T1-Es come with them (also small and large varieties) and while I struggle to wear them no matter what tip I try, no size of the whirlwinds comes close to a decent fit or seal for me.


----------



## TwinACStacks

cadcam said:


> Strangely enough I like the small blue whirlwind tips with my ED10's bass is strong and they sound good but I bought a pair (of ED10) for my son and he hates the blue whirlwinds... says it takes all the bass away??
> You would think that we would have similar shaped ear canals but I guess not. Just goes to show that what works for one person does not mean it will work for someone else even it they are from the same tribe.


 





 It MUST be an ear canal issue. Coil and Peter Like them but I get the same results as your son. It makes whatever I put them on sound thin and tinny. Like the sound was made by a speaker constructed out of two aluminum pie plates.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

eisenbricher said:


> Aqua core is Large I believe. I have all 4 sizes of hybrids, Pink, Orange, Green and Aqua in ascending order of size. I think Green is medium.


 






 You are Right they are Green, I just ran across my aquas in a bag.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Sunreeper

Alright guys, I've recently heard about these earphones and have been reading this thread for a couple of hours now. There is a lot of information here and it is pretty overwhelming so I just want to make sure that I have got things straight. I have no high end audio experience and the only things that I've owned that have been remotely high end are the grados sr60i's. I'm looking for a cheap pair of iems that I can use everyday while commuting and for the gym. I listen to all genres of music but mainly rock, punk, and metal. Now, from my understanding for these kinds of genres you want more treble. So from reading around this thread it looks like out of all the kz headphones either the ED10 or the ED9 will suit my needs the best. I just want to verify if for the most part I've understood things correctly? Also does anyone know where to get the ED10's? I can't seem to find them anywhere. Somebody posted this link a couple of pages back asking if the earphones were legit but nobody answered:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.9GOwgT&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_5,201409_3
  
 Final question for you guys
  
 I've never bought anything from aliexpress before. Do you need a forwarding service or can you just buy directly from the site? It seems like you can order directly from the site because the page advertises free shipping to Canada (the country that I live) but I just want to make sure.
  
 Thanks so much for answering my questions and collecting all this information


----------



## JKT48

i have two pairs of non mic KZ ATE, one silver and one is black transparent. the sound of two ATEs are different although the two had burned for same 100++ hours, the black transparent ATE is still noticeable bassier than silver one. is there anyone who have same experience with the difference?


----------



## Lohb

sunreeper said:


> Alright guys, I've recently heard about these earphones and have been reading this thread for a couple of hours now. There is a lot of information here and it is pretty overwhelming so I just want to make sure that I have got things straight. I have no high end audio experience and the only things that I've owned that have been remotely high end are the grados sr60i's. I'm looking for a cheap pair of iems that I can use everyday while commuting and for the gym. I listen to all genres of music but mainly rock, punk, and metal. Now, from my understanding for these kinds of genres you want more treble. So from reading around this thread it looks like out of all the kz headphones either the ED10 or the ED9 will suit my needs the best. I just want to verify if for the most part I've understood things correctly? Also does anyone know where to get the ED10's? I can't seem to find them anywhere. Somebody posted this link a couple of pages back asking if the earphones were legit but nobody answered:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.9GOwgT&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_5,201409_3
> 
> ...


 

 Regarding them being legit, I don't think there is a big margin in running off $8 knock-offs/fakes !!
 I'd be surprised if there was a fake KZ out there. Only thing that might make people think that is wide variance in QC of the sound quality.
 You can just buy direct from the aliexpress site with a visa card and they don't need to store your card information. I was surprised that it was so easy vs having to sign-up to some paypal clone site in China to be the middle-man.You have feedback and refund options at your disposal with the purchase so it is as good as ebay for buyer safety.
 ED10s should sit in your ear easier without over-ear hooks being needed like I use on ED9s to keep their barrel design in position.
  
 I'll leave it to others to chime in on ED9 vs ED10 for your music taste.


----------



## ayao

sunreeper said:


> Also does anyone know where to get the ED10's? I can't seem to find them anywhere. Somebody posted this link a couple of pages back asking if the earphones were legit but nobody answered:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.9GOwgT&ws_ab_test=201407_4,201444_5,201409_3
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pretty much what Lohb said.
 I've ordered a lot of things from Aliexpress, and none of them failed to arrive. Just don't expect to track the item easily, and it will arrive anywhere from 2-5 weeks (in my experience).
 The normal shop price of the ED10 is around $8-10USD. The 70% OFF $30 RRP is just an marketing tactic; no one actually pays $30 for an ED10. I got mine for $7.99, but the link doesn't work anymore.


----------



## Sunreeper

lohb said:


> Regarding them being legit, I don't think there is a big margin in running off $8 knock-offs/fakes !!
> I'd be surprised if there was a fake KZ out there. Only thing that might make people think that is wide variance in QC of the sound quality.
> You can just buy direct from the aliexpress site with a visa card and they don't need to store your card information. I was surprised that it was so easy vs having to sign-up to some paypal clone site in China to be the middle-man.You have feedback and refund options at your disposal with the purchase so it is as good as ebay for buyer safety.
> ED10s should sit in your ear easier without over-ear hooks being needed like I use on ED9s to keep their barrel design in position.
> ...


 
  
  


ayao said:


> Pretty much what Lohb said.
> I've ordered a lot of things from Aliexpress, and none of them failed to arrive. Just don't expect to track the item easily, and it will arrive anywhere from 2-5 weeks (in my experience).
> The normal shop price of the ED10 is around $8-10USD. The 70% OFF $30 RRP is just an marketing tactic; no one actually pays $30 for an ED10. I got mine for $7.99, but the link doesn't work anymore.


 
 Thanks for the answers. I'm asking because there have been fakes of the piston earphones and those are very cheap as well.I've been looking around aliexpress and apparently there are some KZ earphones like the ED2 that I've never even heard about. So I kinda want to change my question to what do you guys think are the best KZ headphones for my needs?


----------



## CoiL

jkt48 said:


> i have two pairs of non mic KZ ATE, one silver and one is black transparent. the sound of two ATEs are different although the two had burned for same 100++ hours, the black transparent ATE is still noticeable bassier than silver one. is there anyone who have same experience with the difference?


 

 I do agree on the silver vs. black being different part. It`s probably from the different enclosure plastic. I found silver ones to have little more "hollow" sound and less pronounced bass.
 But imo the difference is quite little. But yeah, QC and production differences etc. may also affect them being different.


----------



## JKT48

coil said:


> I do agree on the silver vs. black being different part. It`s probably from the different enclosure plastic. I found silver ones to have little more "hollow" sound and less pronounced bass.
> But imo the difference is quite little. But yeah, QC and production differences etc. may also affect them being different.


 

 yeah, i do think so. i'm still prefer silver ATE than the black one, to me the sound is more refined. time to mod black ATE, maybe with something like ocharaku did on CKM55 a.k.a Tornado Equalizer.


----------



## CoiL

What is Your source gear and its sound signature? In stock configuration I find black ATE better balanced and clearer, without that little "hollowness".
 If You going to mod ATE, then try to do something like I did: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5850#post_11849368
 Open-back grill mod + large inner diameter nozzles (ED9 brass, with closed breathing holes) makes them noticeably more detailed, clearer and littlebit better soundstage/separation/imaging/layering.


----------



## JKT48

coil said:


> What is Your source gear and its sound signature? In stock configuration I find black ATE better balanced and clearer, without that little "hollowness".
> If You going to mod ATE, then try to do something like I did: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5850#post_11849368
> Open-back grill mod + large inner diameter nozzles (ED9 brass, with closed breathing holes) makes them noticeably more detailed, clearer and littlebit better soundstage/separation/imaging/layering.


 

 currently, i'm using iPod Touch 2nd Gen as source connecting to Sony PHA-1 as DAC-AMP. slightly bright, crisp treble and forward mids.
 it's weird that my silver ATE didn't suffer from "hollowness". i don't know what's wrong with my ears, but after i have KZ ATE, i start to disliking my Shure SE215, IM50, and VSD3S because of this silver ATE is better (for me) and i'm enjoying that much, and order black ATE, but after listen to black ATE, i'm displeased with it's sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  .
  
 oh yeah, i'm using Sony Hybrid tips on top of them.


----------



## CoiL

With ATE try large bore silicone tips  Imo sony hybrids doesn` t sound good with ATE, too tiny bore raises littlebit bass quantity.


----------



## JKT48

coil said:


> With ATE try large bore silicone tips  Imo sony hybrids doesn` t sound good with ATE, too tiny bore raises littlebit bass quantity.


 

 do you have picture or tutorial for step by step opening ATE housing, it's glued stronger than my VSD3S


----------



## CoiL

It`s not glued at all 
  


ilikeiem said:


> If anyone wanna open back covers of your ATE, here is how I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


coil said:


> R.I.P. my sweet mod victim ATE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JKT48

coil said:


> It`s not glued at all


 

 nice


----------



## ayao

sunreeper said:


> Thanks for the answers. I'm asking because there have been fakes of the piston earphones and those are very cheap as well.I've been looking around aliexpress and apparently there are some KZ earphones like the ED2 that I've never even heard about. So I kinda want to change my question to what do you guys think are the best KZ headphones for my needs?


 
 It's still not known whether or not the ED2 is the EDSE. They look the same, but they used to have different prices from the same "official seller". I ordered both the ED2 and EDSE (from the "official kz store" last year and while they sounded completely different, it might have been manufacturing inconsistencies. I say that because some people have ordered the ED2 and said they were good. Both came in unlabelled KZ cardboard boxes, so I actually don't know which one was which. I kept the one that sounded like the ES with a more natural treble, and threw the other one in the bin immediately (sounded like the GR with hole-less nozzles).

 The recent 3 models (ATE, ED10, ED9) have generally been praised over the older models in this thread. The Micro might be an exception, but I can't comment on those because I don't have them. Since you're going to use them outside and in the gym, I would personally recommend the ED10. To my ears, they have the most bass which compensates for outside noise and bone conduction (from jogging). I think the ED10 isolates more than the ED9 and ATE, though isolation still isn't that great. They're also very comfortable, sticking out the least in contrast to the other two. They also feel very durable and solid, though I might be a little biased because my ED9 shorts out on the left ear occasionally due to faulty wiring.
  
 So that's just one opinion about which KZ suits you. Others might not agree with me, so it's best to wait for more opinions and recommendations and you'll have a better idea on which model really suits you. Or, you can buy all three for the price of 1 legit EarPod


----------



## slowpickr

voxxonline said:


> Guys, I wonder how long my ED10 will last?
> What would be expected lifespan of these IEM's ?




I gave my ED8s to my daughter months ago. They have been through the washing machine once, the strain reliefs have come apart from the housings, she twirls them around her fingers all the time. With all this abuse, they still work.


----------



## Grayson73

ayao said:


> It's still not known whether or not the ED2 is the EDSE. They look the same, but they used to have different prices from the same "official seller". I ordered both the ED2 and EDSE (from the "official kz store" last year and while they sounded completely different, it might have been manufacturing inconsistencies. I say that because some people have ordered the ED2 and said they were good. Both came in unlabelled KZ cardboard boxes, so I actually don't know which one was which. I kept the one that sounded like the ES with a more natural treble, and threw the other one in the bin immediately (sounded like the GR with hole-less nozzles).
> 
> The recent 3 models (ATE, ED10, ED9) have generally been praised over the older models in this thread. The Micro might be an exception, but I can't comment on those because I don't have them. Since you're going to use them outside and in the gym, I would personally recommend the ED10. To my ears, they have the most bass which compensates for outside noise and bone conduction (from jogging). I think the ED10 isolates more than the ED9 and ATE, though isolation still isn't that great. They're also very comfortable, sticking out the least in contrast to the other two. They also feel very durable and solid, though I might be a little biased because my ED9 shorts out on the left ear occasionally due to faulty wiring.
> 
> So that's just one opinion about which KZ suits you. Others might not agree with me, so it's best to wait for more opinions and recommendations and you'll have a better idea on which model really suits you. Or, you can buy all three for the price of 1 legit EarPod


 
  
 Do you like any of the KZ IEMs more than the KC06 and Tenore?


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> What is Your source gear and its sound signature? In stock configuration I find black ATE better balanced and clearer, without that little "hollowness".
> If You going to mod ATE, then try to do something like I did: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5850#post_11849368
> Open-back grill mod + large inner diameter nozzles (ED9 brass, with closed breathing holes) makes them noticeably more detailed, clearer and littlebit better soundstage/separation/imaging/layering.


 
 Just got 2 more pcs of translucent black ATEs (without mic) and I`m comparing them head-to-head to modded ATE with A/B switch using my portable rig and same silicone tips (atm testing with Porcupine Tree FLAC library).
 Honestly I didn`t expect so much difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It`s almost like different league IEM. Actually, I think my modded ATE has more things in common with ED10 than stock black ATEs (except littlebit better mids on modded/stock ATE - more natural vocals and dynamics). To those who have skills and opportunity to do similar mod - do it! You have no idea what ATEs are capable of


----------



## theuprising

Anyone compare both the TTPOD and ED10, given that they both have similar frequency responses?


----------



## Sunreeper

ayao said:


> It's still not known whether or not the ED2 is the EDSE. They look the same, but they used to have different prices from the same "official seller". I ordered both the ED2 and EDSE (from the "official kz store" last year and while they sounded completely different, it might have been manufacturing inconsistencies. I say that because some people have ordered the ED2 and said they were good. Both came in unlabelled KZ cardboard boxes, so I actually don't know which one was which. I kept the one that sounded like the ES with a more natural treble, and threw the other one in the bin immediately (sounded like the GR with hole-less nozzles).
> 
> The recent 3 models (ATE, ED10, ED9) have generally been praised over the older models in this thread. The Micro might be an exception, but I can't comment on those because I don't have them. Since you're going to use them outside and in the gym, I would personally recommend the ED10. To my ears, they have the most bass which compensates for outside noise and bone conduction (from jogging). I think the ED10 isolates more than the ED9 and ATE, though isolation still isn't that great. They're also very comfortable, sticking out the least in contrast to the other two. They also feel very durable and solid, though I might be a little biased because my ED9 shorts out on the left ear occasionally due to faulty wiring.
> 
> So that's just one opinion about which KZ suits you. Others might not agree with me, so it's best to wait for more opinions and recommendations and you'll have a better idea on which model really suits you. Or, you can buy all three for the price of 1 legit EarPod


 
 Once again, thanks for the answer? How is the treble on the ED10 I've read that it is pretty good but the more opinions I get the better  Also, you mentioned the bass I've never tried a bassy headphone/earphone before and I don't think I'm going to like that kind of sound signature. Which KZ models do you think I should stay away from if you take that into account. From my understanding, it seems like all the old models are pretty base emphasized. Just want to confirm if I came to the right conclusion or not?
  


grayson73 said:


> Do you like any of the KZ IEMs more than the KC06 and Tenore?


 
 I'd love to know which one is preferred as well. The KC06 sounds like my dream earphone but everyone says that it has poor isolation


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> To those who have skills and opportunity to do similar mod - do it! You have no idea what ATEs are capable of


 
 Will do and post results here, if i manage to make some custom backplates(probably 3D printing from a local service provider) else I will just make them open back by opening some holes behind and try to paint them(like your first mod).


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, try it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Backplates and grill-mod is quite easy. It gets difficult when it comes to sanding down the body, cutting nozzle shorter + drilling holes for ED9 nozzles. Nozzle mod is quite important in resulting sound of my FF mod ("Forest Fairy"). Btw, I have grinded brass nozzles shorter by one "line" on top of tip, so it is little shorter and also phased the edge on barrel circle.
 Will take additional pics tomorrow so everyone would understand what I did.


----------



## ayao

grayson73 said:


> Do you like any of the KZ IEMs more than the KC06 and Tenore?


 
 Yes there is one, but it is OOAK thanks to inconsistent QC. The very first DT3 I purchased was faulty. It has horrible driver flex BUT has a unique sound signature which I can only describe as a junior version of the SE846. I liked it so much that I ordered 10 more DT3s, only to find out my original one was unique. The other 10 DT3s sound identical, but have the usual KZ sound signature.
  
 Other than that, unfortunately no 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All KZ IEMs I've heard have two noticeable peaks that makes the signature sound not-so-natural. The first is in the 3-4khz region, and the second in the 7-8khz region. The first peak causes the high mids to sound slightly plasticky, and this is more apparent when A/B'ing with other earphones.
  
 For the money, KZ IEMs are still unbeatable. They destroy the old Meelec models that cost around 3 times more, and I would take the ED10 over the Klipsch S4 anyday (even if the S4 was reduced to $10).
  
 KZ IEMs are basically $10 "giant killers", where the giants are around the $50 range. However, the KC06 and Tenore are also "giant killers", arguably on par with the GR07 which used to be a "giant killer" itself. That term isn't as relevant anymore, because VFM has increased/improved significant in the past year. Five years ago, the Klipsch S4 was actually a good IEM for the money lol, whereas now we have KZ, T1E, MH1, Pistons etc. I have to say that the best VFM earphone I have is the Tenore which I purchased for 1900 yen. I hope it doesn't break though (them horror stories)!


----------



## arpan

Hi guyz
I was using sony mdr-xb90ex and they are broken now so i want very similar or better then iems then that any available in kz ?
Sony mdr-xb90ex comes in extra bass but not only about bass it has a great sound stage and feels like a theater itself in ears so any possibility under kz?


----------



## JKT48

coil said:


> Yeah, try it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 what kind of wooden backplate did you use for mod? kind of exotic wood


----------



## CoiL

Just typical european Oak. Hand selected wood-pattern + green stain + natural oil


----------



## ebrian

ayao said:


> Yes there is one, but it is OOAK thanks to inconsistent QC. The very first DT3 I purchased was faulty. It has horrible driver flex BUT has a unique sound signature which I can only describe as a junior version of the SE846. I liked it so much that I ordered 10 more DT3s, only to find out my original one was unique. The other 10 DT3s sound identical, but have the usual KZ sound signature.
> 
> Other than that, unfortunately no
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is bad news for me having purchased both the ATE and ED10.  My fault though for an impulsive purchase.  Gotta stay away from these forums!


----------



## ayao

ebrian said:


> This is bad news for me having purchased both the ATE and ED10.  My fault though for an impulsive purchase.  Gotta stay away from these forums!


 it's not that bad. Remember, they cost less than ten dollars each, so you really can't expect them to beat something like your VSD1, which was designed to be 80% as good as a GR07. Worst case you can give them to your non-audiophile friends/relatives 
I've been using the ED10 exclusively for the past week and I have to say I'm still enjoying them very much, especially its sub-bass. The mids are recessed, but not recessed enough to really bug me (and I do care about mids, check my IEM inventory in my sig )
Most if not everyone here will tell you that the ATE is a great purchase (some say it sounds like the IM-50), especially when you factor in the price you paid. 
If anything, I probably made the mistake of buying 3 pairs of the "KZ S6", which isn't even by KZ... and going by recent impressions, ordering the ZN1 might've been a mistake too, though it looked great on paper...


----------



## Djinnenjous

My ED10s shipped August 16th. They just arrived today. After that long of a wait I'm practically praying there are no QC issues, which is a lot coming from an agnostic. I'll post my thoughts at a later point in time, especially as to how they compare to my ED9s.


----------



## CADCAM

djinnenjous said:


> My ED10s shipped August 16th. They just arrived today. After that long of a wait I'm practically praying there are no QC issues, which is a lot coming from an agnostic. I'll post my thoughts at a later point in time, especially as to how they compare to my ED9s.


 
 I have two pairs that function perfectly and as a believer will be praying that yours will also!


----------



## Arsis

djinnenjous said:


> My ED10s shipped August 16th. They just arrived today. After that long of a wait I'm practically praying there are no QC issues, which is a lot coming from an agnostic. I'll post my thoughts at a later point in time, especially as to how they compare to my ED9s.


I ordered a pair on Aug 17th. They shipped on the 18th. Still waiting. The last tracking info is that it arrived at NY sorting facility Aug. 22. I got the first pair in 12 days. Go figure.


----------



## EISENbricher

arpan said:


> Hi guyz
> I was using sony mdr-xb90ex and they are broken now so i want very similar or better then iems then that any available in kz ?
> Sony mdr-xb90ex comes in extra bass but not only about bass it has a great sound stage and feels like a theater itself in ears so any possibility under kz?



I have those as well. ED10 would make a fantastic choice.


----------



## Djinnenjous

Initial impressions of my ED10s:
  
*Build Quality:*
  
 For this price range, spectacular. Like the ED9, the shells themselves are machined metal of some kind, and feel nearly bulletproof. The strain reliefs on the IEMs themselves are very firm and feel strong. The cable is protected at termination and at the y-split by flexible-but-strong reliefs, and the low-profile L-plug is convenient for portable rigs.
  
 My favorite improvement over the ED9 is the cable, which feels nearly identical to the touch but has far, far less memory. Right out of the package my ED10s' cable hangs fairly slackly, with a few soft loops that are manageable. I've had my ED9s for months and I _still _cannot stop the cable from doing whatever the hell it wants to, whenever it wants to. That thing is a mess! The one area in which the ED9 cable trumps the ED10s' is length. The ED10s' cable is so short that it stretches to max when my DX90 is in my pocket and I'm wearing the IEMs. The other KZ model has significantly more slack to it.
  
*Accessories:*
  
 Nothing to brag about, but more than I'd expected for the price. I've seen reports of these things shipping without even a hard case, yet mine showed up with a small shield-shaped plastic case containing the ED10s and three pair of ear tips. A small Velcro cable wrap was included but it doesn't attach to the cable directly so it will be easy to lose. So far I've only listened with the unique-looking blue tips with wide bores, which have proven to be extremely comfortable.
  
 The ED10s come with a built-in microphone for taking calls on your cellphone but I haven't tested this out yet. I rarely use IEMs with my phone so I doubt this will ever come in handy for me. I would have preferred a model that lacked this feature, honestly.
  
*Sound Quality:*
  
 Initial impressions are generally positive, albeit mixed. To be fair, I cannot review a headphone I've owned for > 2 hours; however, at first listen there are things I both love and dislike about this set—but nothing that I hate. For starters, the ED9 puts this thing to shame in terms of bass quantity, with both nozzle sets. (While the gold set is frequently overwhelming with its massive bass emphasis, the brass is more well-rounded and closer to neutral; however, both sets offer a more robust low end presence with greater impact and apparent depth.) There are some test tracks in my collection that I always use to demo new 'phones, which through the ED10s have very faint bass lines. At times I have to actually search them out, whereas with other sets they are inherently more prominent.
  
 The ED10s also seem brighter than the ED9s. In fact, this is about as bright as I've ever been able to enjoy an earphone. Anything more than this would begin sliding into the realm of "tolerable-at-best" for me. There's a V-shape here that seems to favor treble over bass by a 2:1 margin, with a fair amount of energy in the upper registers. Still, dryness sometimes leaves cymbal crashes feeling "thin," as if they're decaying far too quickly.
  
 The best thing about these IEMs is their midrange. Wow, it sounds nice. Despite the ED10s' preference for high-frequencies and somewhat recessed mids, the middle frequencies are actually what they reproduce best. Vocals sound outstandingly natural and effortless; imaging is excellent, and rapid channel panning of low level details and one-off cymbal strikes come off perfectly. Even after having heard the ED9 I would not have expected such a beautiful and lifelike midrange from a $10 IEM. There have been times where I felt like the midrange was missing a touch of warmth to fill it out, but it has never disappointed me. _Outstanding!_
  
*Sound Stage:*
  
 Thanks to their considerable brightness the ED10s feel remarkably open and spacious. They remind me of the Havi B3 Pro 1 in this regard, except they have greater depth and height than width. In fact, I think it's safe to say that of all the IEMs I own the ED10s might have the tallest sound stage I've heard yet, while the Havis are by far the widest. As a _huge _sucker for an expansive sound stage, I find the ED10s' uncongested presentation to easily be one of their greatest strengths.
  
*Final (Initial) Impressions:*
  
 I'm pleased with the ED10s so far in general, but let down by their seemingly-shallow lower end and dry treble. Hopefully my ears will adjust a bit with more use, as I'm not a believer in "burn-in." Their mid-range excels in nearly every way, sounding lifelike and transparent in ways no $10 IEM should. So far these things have been terribly underwhelming with electronica (Glitch Mob), fantastic with rock (Leprous, Soilwork), and somewhere in between the two with modern urban blues (Keb' Mo').

 EDIT: Source/amp used for all listening thus far has been my hardware-modded DX90 (FW 2.2L0) and Topping NX1. All files were 16/44.1 ALAC.


----------



## Sunreeper

So is it generally agreed by most that the tenore sound better than kz's offering?


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Djinnenjous If you have other tips, be sure to try out a variety of them with the ED10. My initial thoughts were pretty similar to yours, but only because the included blue tips sealed quite poorly. They felt like they sealed just fine, but swapping to another tip showed me otherwise. That might help with the brightness and subpar bass  They should sit somewhere between the ED9's brass and gold filters in quantity overall.


----------



## CADCAM

Agreed, sounds like a tip issue as I find the ED10 excelling in low end and not bright (source equipment and music recording not withstanding).
 Tips effect me wildly and I would have never thought swapping them could change the characteristics of a hp so drastically. I prefer velour pads on my full size cans but do try "pleather" pads every now and then. I believe tips changes on an IEM effect the sound more than pad material on a full size.


----------



## arpan

eisenbricher said:


> I have those as well. ED10 would make a fantastic choice.




You mean ed10 have extra bass ?


----------



## r2muchstuff

I also find the ED10 to have a great low end, not too bright and have an overall even balance.  I thought they sounded good and had a good fit/seal with the blue whirlwind tips.  However, I tried the Auvio Large tips yesterday, after they worked so well on the UrbanFun, and now the ED10 is even better. Not so much different just more cohesiveness.  I wound up listening to them a lot today 
  
 Kit - FiiO X1 > JDS Micro interconnect > JDS C5 (2nd version) lo gain & no boost > KZ ED 10
  
 Music - Apple Lossless - Rock/Blues/Folk/Jazz
  
 I think that the ED10 is now my favorite KZ.
  
 YMMV,
  
 r2


----------



## ayao

sunreeper said:


> So is it generally agreed by most that the tenore sound better than kz's offering?


 
 Just remember, it is widely regarded by Tenore owners that the build quality is very iffy, there have been reports of different units sounding different to each other, not to mention driver flex. That's why the term "reference Tenore" exists in the Tenore thread.
 If it was only for home use then sure, the Tenore is a great IEM, but you said it was going to be for outside/gym use, so I honestly wouldn't recommend the Tenore.
  
 Another thing I have to say is that when I test an IEM, I like to use the album Cartographer by E.S. Posthumus to judge the realism and naturalness of the sound signature (where mid balance is quite important). I use my Noble K10U as a reference, since many people agree that the balance is great on those.
  
 If I'm going to be listening to something like Slipknot or Lamb of God, and the ED10 is right in front of me but the K10U is slightly out of arms reach, I would just use the ED10 for that type of music, where mids don't matter too much.
 KZ make great V-shaped IEMs for the money. One of my friends own the FXT90 and was pretty impressed by the DT3, which is considered worse than the ED10.
  
 If you choose KZ, you're only going to be paying around $8USD. It will surely beat IEMs in the $20 range sold in retail stores (so I think that rules out the Pistons), and that's really impressive. The drawback is that you'll be waiting at least 2 weeks with very dodgy tracking, but that's all part of the KZ experience! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


cadcam said:


> Agreed, sounds like a tip issue as I find the ED10 excelling in low end and not bright (source equipment and music recording not withstanding).


 


r2muchstuff said:


> I also find the ED10 to have a great low end, not too bright
> 
> 
> I think that the ED10 is now my favorite KZ.


 
 I'm agreeing with this as well! I'm currently using the KZ foam tips on both the ED9 and ED10.


----------



## Sunreeper

ayao said:


> Just remember, it is widely regarded by Tenore owners that the build quality is very iffy, there have been reports of different units sounding different to each other, not to mention driver flex. That's why the term "reference Tenore" exists in the Tenore thread.
> If it was only for home use then sure, the Tenore is a great IEM, but you said it was going to be for outside/gym use, so I honestly wouldn't recommend the Tenore.
> 
> Another thing I have to say is that when I test an IEM, I like to use the album Cartographer by E.S. Posthumus to judge the realism and naturalness of the sound signature (where mid balance is quite important). I use my Noble K10U as a reference, since many people agree that the balance is great on those.
> ...


 
 I have this big problem where I compare a bunch of things looking at the most minute differences to try to find the best thing in that category that meets my needs. I'm sure these are going to be great especially with my limited audio experience. I placed the order now I just hope these things come fairly soon.
  
 Thanks again for answering my questions


----------



## ajaxender

ayao said:


> If it was only for home use then sure, the Tenore is a great IEM, but you said it was going to be for outside/gym use, so I honestly wouldn't recommend the Tenore.


 
  
 Absolutely true. I knew as soon as I got them out of the box that they wouldn't be going anywhere. 
  
 KZ's on the other hand... I have ED10, ATE, ED8, EDSE, and RX. The metal ones (not ATE) are built like tanks, and even the ATE seems tough. The cables are also strong (if a little springy) and they have effective strain reliefs.
  
 It pretty much seems like they're designed to handle a bunch of abuse and when they inevitably break from that, they're so cheap it doesn't really matter.


----------



## ayao

sunreeper said:


> I have this big problem where I compare a bunch of things looking at the most minute differences to try to find the best thing in that category that meets my needs. I'm sure these are going to be great especially with my limited audio experience. I placed the order now I just hope these things come fairly soon.
> 
> Thanks again for answering my questions


 
 Glad to help, and I hope you'll like them!
  
 P.S. AFAIK, KZ is in it's own price category, unless you count all the other random cheap (and bad) IEMs on AliExpress 
  
  


ajaxender said:


> KZ's on the other hand... I have ED10, ATE, ED8, EDSE, and RX. The metal ones (not ATE) are built like tanks, and even the ATE seems tough. The cables are also strong (if a little springy) and they have effective strain reliefs.
> 
> It pretty much seems like they're designed to handle a bunch of abuse and when they inevitably break from that, they're so cheap it doesn't really matter.


 
 I never owned the ED8, but I still want to say that the ED10 and ES are sufficient enough to be used as a personal defense weapon


----------



## ajaxender

ayao said:


> I never owned the ED8, but I still want to say that the ED10 and ES are sufficient enough to be used as a personal defense weapon


 
  
 No doubt, but the ED8s are on another level! They're twice the size of the others and seem even solid-er, plus they're more angular and have pointy bits on the back. I bought them because I think they look badass... and because I massively underestimated the size 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 There was some talk in this thread not too long ago that they could be used as a flail or a bola, I reckon if you modded in a really strong cable (probably worth more than they are haha) then that would actually work. Truly when it comes to KZs as weapons, there are none finer!


----------



## Lohb

Anyone using KZ earphones with clipzip with TRS ( no mic option) ?
 I just ordered a pair of KZ ED9 for a friend but wonder if I should have bought TRSS (with mic) or TRS (no mic) to work with clipzip.
  
 I'll have 24 hours till the transaction goes through anyway... !


----------



## ForceMajeure

lohb said:


> Anyone using KZ earphones with clipzip with TRS ( no mic option) ?
> I just ordered a pair of KZ ED9 for a friend but wonder if I should have bought TRSS (with mic) or TRS (no mic) to work with clipzip.
> 
> I'll have 24 hours till the transaction goes through anyway... !


 
 Both should work, of course the mic (trrs) cannot be used with the clip zip.


----------



## Lohb

forcemajeure said:


> Both should work, of course the mic (trrs) cannot be used with the clip zip.


 

 Thanks, yeah I remember reading way back Clipzip sometimes fussy with one of those connectors..channel cut-out etc.


----------



## CoiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Djinnenjous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> For starters, the ED9 puts this thing to shame in terms of bass quantity, with both nozzle sets.
> ...which through the ED10s have very faint bass lines. At times I have to actually search them out...
> ...


 
  
 ...also can`t agree on this. I think You have fit/tip issues or there`s QC/production differences.
  


b9scrambler said:


> @Djinnenjous If you have other tips, be sure to try out a variety of them with the ED10. My initial thoughts were pretty similar to yours, but only because the included blue tips sealed quite poorly. They felt like they sealed just fine, but swapping to another tip showed me otherwise. That might help with the brightness and subpar bass  They should sit somewhere between the ED9's brass and gold filters in quantity overall.


 


cadcam said:


> Agreed, sounds like a tip issue as I find the ED10 excelling in low end and not bright (source equipment and music recording not withstanding).
> Tips effect me wildly and I would have never thought swapping them could change the characteristics of a hp so drastically. I prefer velour pads on my full size cans but do try "pleather" pads every now and then. I believe tips changes on an IEM effect the sound more than pad material on a full size.


 
 +1
  
 They are very tip dependent, especially on bass part, imo. Just finished changing ED10 cable for R-35 cable and haven`t managed to find my favourite tips yet.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Quote:
> 
> ...also can`t agree on this. I think You have fit/tip issues or there`s QC/production differences.
> 
> ...


 






 Auvios are the answer. They don't work EVERY time with Every 'phone but they do work well on this one.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AUVIO-Large-Silicon-Tips/dp/B00MY9T7AO
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

LOL. This is totally subjective and what I`ve read from Your posts - we have totally different tips preference and thus probably different ear/ear-canal shape and hearing.
 And by saying I haven`t found favourite tips, I didn`t mean I have none - I have a lot of tips to choose from and many are good with ED10, I just haven`t picked out my fav yet.


----------



## CADCAM

I have to avoid any large size tips...even mediums give me problems so I am relegated to small...


----------



## Podster

forcemajeure said:


> Both should work, of course the mic (trrs) cannot be used with the clip zip.


 

 True but will have the option to possibly use with a phone should the occasion arise


----------



## bhazard

My ZN1 should be in any day now.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> LOL. This is totally subjective and what I`ve read from Your posts - we have totally different tips preference and thus probably different ear/ear-canal shape and hearing.
> And by saying I haven`t found favourite tips, I didn`t mean I have none - I have a lot of tips to choose from and many are good with ED10, I just haven`t picked out my fav yet.


 





 Don't laugh. I'm still not absolutely sure the Auvios are the best on the ED10's yet either. I still have more to try but so far they are promising. I keep going Back to that slightly smaller Bore Red core Hybrid that I think came with the ED9's? It's pretty good too. I originally put it on my Silver ATE's.
  
 Decisions, decisions....
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

bhazard said:


> My ZN1 should be in any day now.


 





 Let US know. I have a lot of reservations about that 'phone. Maybe it's just paranoia of new things.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Djinnenjous

So after a bit of tip rolling I found that JVC Spiral Dots (M) and a gently tapered barrel-shaped, wide-bored silicone tip that came with my RE-400s sound the best on the ED10s. I feel like now I'm hearing what others have described. The high end's brightness has faded away and is more controlled now, and the bass impact and extension are greatly improved. Best of all, these things haven't lost their remarkable sense of openness that I love so much. I still think they sound deeper and taller than they are wide (or at least deeper and taller than many alternatives), but there are times when I've been utterly amazed at how immersive the sound stage is in all directions. Best of all, they're very comfortable and don't create a vacuum when inserted that jacks up the pressure in my ear canal.
  
 I've noticed some shrill resonance in music with heavily distorted guitars, which has always been an issue for me even with $500 quad-BA IEMs, but I would have been impressed by these at the $50 mark--if not higher. Last night I took them off after an hour of band shuffling and said to my wife, "It won't be long before what you can get in a $10 earphone renders $500 options completely obsolete." I'm not sure that will ever be completely true, but diminishing returns are definitely going to favor the "budget-fi" market more and more over time.
  
 KZ, you're doing God's own work; and thanks for the recommendation, Head-Fi.


----------



## CoiL

Ok. I think I have finished tip-rolling. My top choices for ED10 were ED9 red core/dark grey smallest tips, black smallest tips that come with ED10 package, blue core/dark grey wide bore smallest CX300 replacement silicones (from link I posted little before), soft translucent white triple-flanges (smallest) and Piston 2 smallest silicones.
 My favourite with ED10 atm are Piston 2 smallest silicones with wide bore. I get deep insertion and very comfort fit with them and the "skirt" of tip leaves just enough gap for 1st breathing hole in the nozzle without altering sound.
  
 But... ATE-b FF-mod is still better IEM by SQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only thing that ED10 surpasses it, is deeper insertion/fit that lets me to use them better while sleeping.


----------



## arpan

Is ed10 more bassy?


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Ok. I think I have finished tip-rolling. My top choices for ED10 were ED9 red core/dark grey smallest tips, black smallest tips that come with ED10 package, blue core/dark grey wide bore smallest CX300 replacement silicones (from link I posted little before), soft translucent white triple-flanges (smallest) and Piston 2 smallest silicones.
> My favourite with ED10 atm are Piston 2 smallest silicones with wide bore. I get deep insertion and very comfort fit with them and the "skirt" of tip leaves just enough gap for 1st breathing hole in the nozzle without altering sound.
> 
> But... ATE-b FF-mod is still better IEM by SQ
> ...


 
 CoiL, I have the black\clear ATE coming in and it seems we have similar preferences in tips so what would you suggest for the ATE? I have the blue whirlwind and red bore...I also ordered the other blue bore tips on ebay you suggested a few pages back.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> CoiL, I have the black\clear ATE coming in and it seems we have similar preferences in tips so what would you suggest for the ATE? I have the blue whirlwind and red bore...I also ordered the other blue bore tips on ebay you suggested a few pages back.


 

 I'm with coil on the ED9 Red Tips but the mediums did me right
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Not to mention the obvious QC issue too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have three pair and this was the only one that had issue right out the box! Anyone recognize what it is?


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> I'm with coil on the ED9 Red Tips but the mediums did me right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Well You can always wear one of those rights upside down.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> Well You can always wear one of those rights upside down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Luckily AC the shell was a lefty as you can see and who knows maybe they just ran out of those left side blue stripped brass barrels!


----------



## dwayniac

I wasn't a fan of the ED9 when I first heard it. That has changed since I tried the black nozzles from the GR,on the ED9. Bass is much more pronounced without losing any detail. It's still a genre specific (jazz) IEM for me but it does jazz better than the GR with black nozzles which had too much bass for jazz,to my ears.


----------



## encompassment

I had to re-wire my ed10, with a cheap cat5 cable. it works but the cable is so stiff. guess, i can't use them on the go because of microphonics :{
 the reason i had to do this is because the oem cable is to weak and gave out at the plug within the first day of use.
 first time doing this 
 the only thing keeping the end attached to the plug and in ear pieces is the solder, i couldn't use the cable cringe thing built into the plug because the cable is to thin ..
 things to note, i had to remove the back plate, they sound more roomy and only lost a small amount of base.


----------



## RedTwilight

djinnenjous said:


> So after a bit of tip rolling I found that JVC Spiral Dots (M) and a gently tapered barrel-shaped, wide-bored silicone tip that came with my RE-400s sound the best on the ED10s. I feel like now I'm hearing what others have described. The high end's brightness has faded away and is more controlled now, and the bass impact and extension are greatly improved. Best of all, these things haven't lost their remarkable sense of openness that I love so much. I still think they sound deeper and taller than they are wide (or at least deeper and taller than many alternatives), but there are times when I've been utterly amazed at how immersive the sound stage is in all directions. Best of all, they're very comfortable and don't create a vacuum when inserted that jacks up the pressure in my ear canal.
> 
> I've noticed some shrill resonance in music with heavily distorted guitars, which has always been an issue for me even with $500 quad-BA IEMs, but I would have been impressed by these at the $50 mark--if not higher. Last night I took them off after an hour of band shuffling and said to my wife, "It won't be long before what you can get in a $10 earphone renders $500 options completely obsolete." I'm not sure that will ever be completely true, but diminishing returns are definitely going to favor the "budget-fi" market more and more over time.
> 
> KZ, you're doing God's own work; and thanks for the recommendation, Head-Fi.


 
  
 Those are exactly my impressions haha.. I wonder if it's because we're Havi guys..


----------



## Djinnenjous

redtwilight said:


> Those are exactly my impressions haha.. I wonder if it's because we're Havi guys..


 
 Ah, yes . . . but couldn't it be said that we are Havi guys because we've been privileged enough to experience the dawn of a bona fide audiophile revolution?
  
 It's the old "chicken or egg" dichotomy.


----------



## RedTwilight

djinnenjous said:


> Ah, yes . . . but couldn't it be said that we are Havi guys because we've been privileged enough to experience the dawn of a bona fide audiophile revolution?
> 
> It's the old "chicken or egg" dichotomy.


 
  
 Agreed haha.. 'Twas a good time to start.


----------



## infer

Could someone compare Fidue A73 to KZ ATE? They're both warm, so should be similar.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> cadcam said:
> 
> 
> > CoiL, I have the black\clear ATE coming in and it seems we have similar preferences in tips so what would you suggest for the ATE? I have the blue whirlwind and red bore...I also ordered the other blue bore tips on ebay you suggested a few pages back.
> ...


 
 This is totally subjective but I found best tips for unmodified ATE to be ED9 smallest red/dark grey silicones and smallest KZ blue whirlwinds (don`t come with IEMs).
  


infer said:


> Could someone compare Fidue A73 to KZ ATE? They're both warm, so should be similar.


 
 A73 should be superior in every way and in another league. If anything, ATE can be similar to ATH-IM50, some even claim IM70 similar.


----------



## CoiL

encompassment said:


> I had to re-wire my ed10, with a cheap cat5 cable. it works but the cable is so stiff. guess, i can't use them on the go because of microphonics :{
> the reason i had to do this is because the oem cable is to weak and gave out at the plug within the first day of use.
> first time doing this
> the only thing keeping the end attached to the plug and in ear pieces is the solder, i couldn't use the cable cringe thing built into the plug because the cable is to thin ..


 
 Why Oh why did You use that braided sleeving? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





> things to note, i had to remove the back plate, they sound more roomy and only lost a small amount of base.


 
 I also changed cable and removed backplates. To my ears sound didn`t change noticeably when using as open-back. Maybe it`s Your CAT5 cable that altered sound?
 Have You measured that cat5 cable impedance? Recommend to get better cable. Even simple cheap supermarket IEM can be used to get better cable.
  
 Well, first time for everything... not so bad actually.
  


coil said:


> Time to change cable!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 Despite ATE-b FF-mod being better in SQ, I will use these as my "workhorse" when working with machines.
 They seem pretty indestructible and have quite ok noise blocking (over average).
 Should have stuffed something inside chamber to make them more noise blocking but already closed backplates with super-glue(gel)... well oh well...


----------



## EISENbricher

KZ should release new model now.... I already feel like buying a new earphone and since my budget is below $20 I can't even take a look at other brands (Damn you, KZ!)
 Also I won't be buying ZN1 simply because I love simplicity and would love to keep all the processing/extra stuff out of context. Reviews from around here are also a mixed bag. 
  
 A ZN1 without that EQBox would be a very good idea for starters. Just give us vanilla ZN1 version without EQBox! I'm expecting it.


----------



## HiFiChris

Has anyone that ordered the ZN1 from AliExpress already received it?

Mine hasn't arrived yet and the tracking doesn't work.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> I already feel like buying a new earphone and since my budget is below $20 I can't even take a look at other brands


 
 No? Imo there still are some great ones to test in that price range  
  
 For example YINJW DIY "IE800" (I just ordered) for ~17$. Then those Rock Zircon`s for ~13$ (a hype that I don`t follow personally). Ivery Cannon IV-8 for ~20$, **** DT2 DIY "IE800", Bette Hybrids ~37$ and some others I don`t recall atm. And if You save littlebit over time, for example get ATH-CKR9LTD for ~60$ (my plan after getting Yinjw`s ...or **** "K3003" for ~80$ ...or I`ll skip between and jump for Fidue A73 ...but then it`s less fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I`m really interested from where(price point) I get definite upgrade to my ATE-b FF-mod


----------



## raybone0566

hifichris said:


> Has anyone that ordered the ZN1 from AliExpress already received it?
> 
> Mine hasn't arrived yet and the tracking doesn't work.


I believe Hisoundfi has received his and initial impressions were not to encouraging.


----------



## raybone0566

coil said:


> No? Imo there still are some great ones to test in that price range
> 
> For example YINJW DIY "IE800" (I just ordered) for ~17$. Then those Rock Zircon`s for ~13$ (a hype that I don`t follow personally). Ivery Cannon IV-8 for ~20$, **** DT2 DIY "IE800", Bette Hybrids ~37$ and some others I don`t recall atm. And if You save littlebit over time, for example get ATH-CKR9LTD for ~60$ (my plan after getting Yinjw`s ...or **** "K3003" for ~80$ ...or I`ll skip between and jump for Fidue A73 ...but then it`s less fun  ). I`m really interested from where(price point) I get definite upgrade to my ATE-b FF-mod


I received the rock zircon' yesterday and out the box they sound pretty darn good.going to burn them in over the weekend and post some impressions soon. Great deal for that price.


----------



## HiFiChris

raybone0566 said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone that ordered the ZN1 from AliExpress already received it?
> ...




I know, but did he order his ZN1 from AliExpress?
When I asked him some pages ago, I didn't get a reply - seems like my post got lost due to so many new ones.


----------



## raybone0566

hifichris said:


> I know, but did he order his ZN1 from AliExpress?
> When I asked him some pages ago, I didn't get a reply - seems like my post got lost due to so many new ones.


I'm waiting on mine as well. Depending on the customs process some packages take longer than others. I'd give it a bit longer. Mine were ordered about 3 weeks ago


----------



## HiFiChris

I was one of the first that ordered the ZN1 on AliExpress. 

When I got home an hour ago, I found a notification in my letterbox that there's something waiting for me at the post office - could be the ZN1 or one of the four other KZ IEMs from AliExpress, or something else I ordered from there.
Anyway, I wouldn't have time for concentrating on it atm as there's plenty of more cool stuff I have for review that is waiting to be finished.


----------



## HiFiChris

^^^^

It was the EDSE. Great bang for the buck, just like the ATE. Let's wait for the others to arrive and see if they can keep up with that great price-to-performance ratio. 

They are inexpensive, but don't sound cheap.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Sorry Wrong Thread.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> My Gold Hyperions passed through Chicago Sort on 9/9. they should be here soonest.
> 
> Bob, I'm damn near as excited about these as I was the Deltas.
> 
> Now get back to work on those Phantoms so I can go to the Bank for a second Mortgage.


 
 Meh? Wut? Didn`t understand anything. Wrong thread?


----------



## ebrian

ajaxender said:


> Absolutely true. I knew as soon as I got them out of the box that they wouldn't be going anywhere.
> 
> KZ's on the other hand... I have ED10, ATE, ED8, EDSE, and RX. The metal ones (not ATE) are built like tanks, and even the ATE seems tough. The cables are also strong (if a little springy) and they have effective strain reliefs.
> 
> It pretty much seems like they're designed to handle a bunch of abuse and when they inevitably break from that, they're so cheap it doesn't really matter.


 
 For the record, I have been taking Tenore with me to and from work, at work, on the train.  No major issues.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> Meh? Wut? Didn`t understand anything. Wrong thread?


 





 OOps sorry I meant to post this on the Trinity Thread!!!!
  
 Must be a SENIOR MOMENT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

Just got my translucent black ATE's in and straight out of the package put Providence on by King Crimson HDCD and they sound... beautiful! A little thicker sound than the ED9...highs rolled off a bit more but at first listen I really like them. Kind of a softer darker sound like the HD600 of Kz's. More to follow.
  
 btw using the smallest black tips that came with them. Mine came with 2 sets "regular" tips looks like small and large and a pair of black foam tips. Also came with a set of white wire wraps for over the ear usage. I'm just using my glasses to hold them in place. Starless is playing now and I feel the same, sound is soft... a little distant and dark but in a good way.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Just got my translucent black ATE's in and straight out of the package put Providence on by King Crimson HDCD and they sound... beautiful! A little thicker sound than the ED9...highs rolled off a bit more but at first listen I really like them. Kind of a softer darker sound like the HD600 of Kz's. More to follow.


 
  
 Awesome! The ATEs really are a very nice sounding earphone. Not the most energetic, bright, bassy etc, but just right. They are perfect for longer listening sessions.


----------



## CoiL

I think I should make one FF-mod for "tour" so ppl could hear what ATEs can be... even better (subjective though)... 
  
 CADCAM, try large bore silicones like smallest KZ whirlwinds or smallest Piston2 tips


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> No? Imo there still are some great ones to test in that price range
> 
> For example YINJW DIY "IE800" (I just ordered) for ~17$. Then those Rock Zircon`s for ~13$ (a hype that I don`t follow personally). Ivery Cannon IV-8 for ~20$, **** DT2 DIY "IE800", Bette Hybrids ~37$ and some others I don`t recall atm. And if You save littlebit over time, for example get ATH-CKR9LTD for ~60$ (my plan after getting Yinjw`s ...or **** "K3003" for ~80$ ...or I`ll skip between and jump for Fidue A73 ...but then it`s less fun
> 
> ...


 
 Yep, apparently there are but no legit info available on them and it takes time for a brand to establish its reputation so from any unknown manufacturer, it's a no no from me. I'll be really sad if I get lower than expected performance ~


----------



## Igor Eisberg

coil said:


> No? Imo there still are some great ones to test in that price range
> 
> For example YINJW DIY "IE800" (I just ordered) for ~17$. Then those Rock Zircon`s for ~13$ (a hype that I don`t follow personally). Ivery Cannon IV-8 for ~20$, **** DT2 DIY "IE800", Bette Hybrids ~37$ and some others I don`t recall atm. And if You save littlebit over time, for example get ATH-CKR9LTD for ~60$ (my plan after getting Yinjw`s ...or **** "K3003" for ~80$ ...or I`ll skip between and jump for Fidue A73 ...but then it`s less fun
> 
> ...


 
 I got the KZ IE80 (Sennheiser IE80 clone) and it's pretty good if you like Hi-Res sound (bass isn't pronounced).
 About the Rock RAU0501 (Zircon) you're wrong about the "hype" thing. I have them, along with Fidue A33, JBL T100A, LG QuadBeat 2, KZ-ED2, KZ-ED10, KZ-GR, KZ-IE80, NOHON NM101, Sony MH750, VJJB V1, Xiaomi Piston 3.
 Rock's earphones are CLEARLY the best of them. Yes, you heard right, MUCH better than Piston 3, better than VJJB V1 (very impressive and comfortable dual-driver earphones) and even slightly better than KZ ED10. I was using KZ ED10 as my daily driver until I received Rock RAU0501.
 By the way, the Piston 3 are a JOKE compared to Rock RAU0501, KZ ED10 and VJJB V1.


----------



## CoiL

Hmmm... will think about it. Thanks for information. What is Your source gear and its signature?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

coil said:


> Hmmm... will think about it. Thanks for information. What is Your source gear and its signature?


 
 Got them from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Luxury-Rock-Universal-Deep-Bass-Stereo-Headset-Earphone-High-performance-in-ear-Headphone-for-iPhone-5/32424486382.html
 You have my word you won't be disappointed. I've never heard such tiny metallic earphones that produce such a powerful bass response along with clear and crisp mids and highs.
 By the way, one of the most expensive earphones I've got are the Fidue A33. Do NOT buy them. Yes, they look and feel well-made, but they sound horrible. They are quiet, the bass is pathetic and distorted. That was a disappointing experience.


----------



## raybone0566

igor eisberg said:


> I got the KZ IE80 (Sennheiser IE80 clone) and it's pretty good if you like Hi-Res sound (bass isn't pronounced).
> About the Rock RAU0501 (Zircon) you're wrong about the "hype" thing. I have them, along with Fidue A33, JBL T100A, LG QuadBeat 2, KZ-ED2, KZ-ED10, KZ-GR, KZ-IE80, NOHON NM101, Sony MH750, VJJB V1, Xiaomi Piston 3.
> Rock's earphones are CLEARLY the best of them. Yes, you heard right, MUCH better than Piston 3, better than VJJB V1 (very impressive and comfortable dual-driver earphones) and even slightly better than KZ ED10. I was using KZ ED10 as my daily driver until I received Rock RAU0501.
> By the way, the Piston 3 are a JOKE compared to Rock RAU0501, KZ ED10 and VJJB V1.


+1 on the zircon. Very good sounding phone.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I like my Pair of VJJB V1 as well. Very Nice. AFAIK You really can't call a person's preference in sound Signature WRONG. Everyone hears things differently. Just as everyone has different musical tastes.
  
 There is no wrong.
  
 Misguided maybe, but not wrong.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## ajaxender

ebrian said:


> For the record, I have been taking Tenore with me to and from work, at work, on the train.  No major issues.


 
 Fair enough. For me though going places often means biking or running, and the place I'm going to is often the gym. I went through three pairs of Monster DNA IEMs in less than two years (because of warranty else I'd have tried something else after the first), but the last pair breaking was what drove me here finally.
 The Tenores are not exactly gonna fall apart in your hands, but the cable and strain reliefs will obviously not hold up to what I inevitably do with IEMS... and I like them, I don't want them to die any time soon.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

twinacstacks said:


> I like my Pair of VJJB V1 as well. Very Nice. AFAIK You really can't call a person's preference in sound Signature WRONG. Everyone hears things differently. Just as everyone has different musical tastes.
> 
> There is no wrong.
> 
> ...


 

 Well I'm talking from a sound quality/clarity/stage/max volume point of view more than sound signature. Sound signature is definitely subjective. Zircon just sound like heaven, are very loud, very crisp yet fill the air with bass (I especially enjoy soundtracks of Battlestar Galactica, Black Sails, Vikings and The Witcher 3 and bands like Wardruna [nordic folk], the instruments sound perfect on these earphones) while Piston 3 sound worse than cheap Philips earphones and don't get half the volume the Zircon get.
 Still waiting for the mods to approve a post I wrote in response to CoiL with the store's link.


----------



## ebrian

ajaxender said:


> Fair enough. For me though going places often means biking or running, and the place I'm going to is often the gym. I went through three pairs of Monster DNA IEMs in less than two years (because of warranty else I'd have tried something else after the first), but the last pair breaking was what drove me here finally.
> The Tenores are not exactly gonna fall apart in your hands, but the cable and strain reliefs will obviously not hold up to what I inevitably do with IEMS... and I like them, I don't want them to die any time soon.


 
  
 Haha.. I'm not disputing the fragility of the Tenore, I definitely would not take them running.  I'm simply giving people an idea of what they can or can't do with their Tenore should they choose to get a pair 
  
 Plus just another thing to note is that despite their size they do stick out a bit unlike a lot of the other IEMs nowadays that sit flush in your ear.  I do notice a fair bit of wind noise when walking around downtown, especially between large skyscrapers (acts like a windtunnel).


----------



## B9Scrambler

After not using them since writing up the KZ shootout, I listened to the Micro Ring again tonight. Completely forgot how awesome they were. Such a great all-round earphone.They also pair exceptionally well with the HTC One M8.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> CADCAM, try large bore silicones like smallest KZ whirlwinds or smallest Piston2 tips


 
 No go with the small blue whirlwinds or the other blue bore tips you suggested recently...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh well
  
 I did have some success with the small red bores I purchased from Aliexpress ~
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-6pcs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Tips-Earbuds-Headphones-Silicone-Eartips-Ear-Sleeve-Ear/32424630227.html
  
 and the small black tips that come with the ATE sound awesome in my small ears...
  
 btw listening to a little Essential George Benson ~ Take Five....very nice


----------



## leobigfield

igor eisberg said:


> Well I'm talking from a sound quality/clarity/stage/max volume point of view more than sound signature. Sound signature is definitely subjective. Zircon just sound like heaven, are very loud, very crisp yet fill the air with bass (I especially enjoy soundtracks of Battlestar Galactica, Black Sails, Vikings and The Witcher 3 and bands like Wardruna [nordic folk], the instruments sound perfect on these earphones) while Piston 3 sound worse than cheap Philips earphones and don't get half the volume the Zircon get.
> Still waiting for the mods to approve a post I wrote in response to CoiL with the store's link.


 
  
 Not going to discuss sound quality here but if you have problems driving the Piston 3 probably you have a weak source and that could leave you disliking some gear that you could like if you had enough power to drive them.


----------



## hyuji

Got my ZN1 yesterday (bought in the $26 sale) along with a postcard thanking me for the purchase.. I'm no expert but love the sound, and the equalizer makes quite a difference. Great bass too, deep and strong. Don't have a DAC but works perfect with smartphone, with the amp off too. Unwieldy housing though and the amp unit's quite heavy.


----------



## Lohb

hyuji said:


> Got my ZN1 yesterday (bought in the $26 sale) along with a postcard thanking me for the purchase.. I'm no expert but love the sound, and the equalizer makes quite a difference. Great bass too, deep and strong. Don't have a DAC but works perfect with smartphone, with the amp off too. Unwieldy housing though and the amp unit's quite heavy.


 

 Is there a shirt-clip on the amp ?


----------



## CoiL

cadcam said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > CADCAM, try large bore silicones like smallest KZ whirlwinds or smallest Piston2 tips
> ...


 
 Maybe try these? They are similar to those red core tips You posted but have little more tapered/cone shape and larger bore.
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true
  
 Edit: OH! You already have those blue ones? Sorry, didn`t notice.


----------



## hyuji

lohb said:


> Is there a shirt-clip on the amp ?




There are two clips supplied, and I was hoping one would go above and one below the amp, but turns out the amp-to-jack wire is too thick for the clip. So one clip each for the two amp-to-headphone wires.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

leobigfield said:


> Not going to discuss sound quality here but if you have problems driving the Piston 3 probably you have a weak source and that could leave you disliking some gear that you could like if you had enough power to drive them.


 

 No offense, but earphones like Piston 3 are made to be PORTABLE and used with MOBILE phones.
 So like with the other earphones I have, I compare them with the same equalization methods (Arkamys + Dolby Atmos) on my Xperia Z1, with increased volume output.
 If I need more power for the Piston 3, that my high-end device cannot provide, than Piston 3 sucks. You shouldn't have to drive mobile earphones, and KZ ED10 and Rock Zircon proved that.
 When I use Piston 3 on my computer (which has sound amplified with Asus Xonar DGX) I get some decent sound from them, but still lower than Zircon and even the Sony MH750, and less crispier than KZ IE80.
 Still, it losses its purpose as MOBILE earphones.


----------



## raybone0566

igor eisberg said:


> No offense, but earphones like Piston 3 are made to be PORTABLE and used with MOBILE phones.
> So like with the other earphones I have, I compare them with the same equalization methods (Arkamys + Dolby Atmos) on my Xperia Z1, with increased volume output.
> If I need more power for the Piston 3, that my high-end device cannot provide, than Piston 3 sucks. You shouldn't have to drive mobile earphones, and KZ ED10 and Rock Zircon proved that.
> When I use Piston 3 on my computer (which has sound amplified with Asus Xonar DGX) I get some decent sound from them, but still lower than Zircon and even the Sony MH750, and less crispier than KZ IE80.
> Still, it losses it's purpose as MOBILE earphones.


unfortunately that is not always the case. It's a fact that some "mobile" phones do require some amping to reach their full potential.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

raybone0566 said:


> unfortunately that is not always the case. It's a fact that some "mobile" phones do require some amping to reach their full potential.


 

 Have you even heard the Zircon yet? When you hear them I'd love to see your change of heart. XD


----------



## 1clearhead

Zircon and Ed10 are rockin' on top of my list right now for best dynamics.


----------



## raybone0566

igor eisberg said:


> Have you even heard the Zircon yet? When you hear them I'd love to see your change of heart. XD


Yes I have, indeed they do sound good from a smartphone. But when driven with a bit more juice that bass really slams. I'm not arguing with you. Everyone's take on things is not going to be the same. That's what makes us unique as individuals. Enjoy the music.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

raybone0566 said:


> Yes I have, indeed they do sound good from a smartphone. But when driven with a bit more juice that bass really slams. I'm not arguing with you. Everyone's take on things is not going to be the same. That's what makes us unique as individuals. Enjoy the music.


 
 What I'm saying is that sound signature can be easily modified with an equalizer (and I've got 2 on my phone running simultaneously).
 I can easily make Rock Zircon sound like Xiaomi Piston 3.
 Xiaomi Piston 3 doesn't have the guts to sound like Rock Zircon, no matter how I equalize it.
 And that is my point.


----------



## raybone0566

When you have a quality dap you don't have to





igor eisberg said:


> What I'm saying is that sound signature can be easily modified with an equalizer (and I've got 2 on my phone running simultaneously).
> I can easily make Rock Zircon sound like Xiaomi Piston 3.
> Xiaomi Piston 3 doesn't have the guts to sound like Rock Zircon, no matter how I equalize it.
> And that is my point.


 when you have a quality dap you don't have to eq anything. I don't buy a set of phones then eq. Them to sound like another, that's ridiculous. You probably need to eq. Because you source(phone) is crap.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

raybone0566 said:


> When you have a quality dap you don't have to
> when you have a quality dap you don't have to eq anything. I don't buy a set of phones then eq. Them to sound like another, that's ridiculous. You probably need to eq. Because you source(phone) is crap.


 

 Or because I don't like flat EQ. But tell yourself whatever makes you feel better.


----------



## Ruben123

raybone0566 said:


> When you have a quality dap you don't have to
> when you have a quality dap you don't have to eq anything. I don't buy a set of phones then eq. Them to sound like another, that's ridiculous. You probably need to eq. Because you source(phone) is crap.




Lol you can't be serious!


----------



## RedTwilight

Guys guys, let's not get this thread locked again yea...


----------



## raybone0566

redtwilight said:


> Guys guys, let's not get this thread locked again yea...


I apologize, I'm not trying to pick on anyone. I have an iphone6, and compared to any of my daps it doesn't sound as good. It all starts at the source. Sorry if I offended anyone.


----------



## HiFiChris

To each his own opinion... 
Let's not get deeper by arguing about DAPs, EQing etc., but agree that Knowledge Zenith makes IEMs with an awesome price-to-performance ratio. 

Random shocking fact: the short form of Knowledge Zenith, KZ, has got another, inappropriate meaning in German and in its long form stands for something completely horrible, inhuman and criminal that happened in the last century's first half.


----------



## theuprising

raybone0566 said:


> When you have a quality dap you don't have to
> when you have a quality dap you don't have to eq anything. I don't buy a set of phones then eq. Them to sound like another, that's ridiculous. You probably need to eq. Because you source(phone) is crap.


 

 ??? EQability is simply another factor to consider when reviewing a headphone, nothing more, nothing less. A headphone that is high quality and can be EQ'ed is great if the stock signature doesn't suit you.
  
 Also is there any review on the zircons


----------



## Hisoundfi

My LG G3 is a boss in terms of music playback. Sound as good to my ears as many popular DAPs


----------



## CoiL

igor eisberg said:


> leobigfield said:
> 
> 
> > Not going to discuss sound quality here but if you have problems driving the Piston 3 probably you have a weak source and that could leave you disliking some gear that you could like if you had enough power to drive them.
> ...


 


igor eisberg said:


> What I'm saying is that sound signature can be easily modified with an equalizer (and I've got 2 on my phone running simultaneously).
> *I can easily make Rock Zircon sound like Xiaomi Piston 3.*
> Xiaomi Piston 3 doesn't have the guts to sound like Rock Zircon, no matter how I equalize it.


 
 Quote:


igor eisberg said:


> *Or because I don't like flat EQ.* But tell yourself whatever makes you feel better.


 
 I`m sorry but I don`t agree with Your subjective opinion and will not follow Your words about Zircons. Not going to argue. Just leave it there. Sorry but I make my own conclusions from Your comments.
  


raybone0566 said:


> when you have a quality dap you don't have to eq anything. I don't buy a set of phones then eq. Them to sound like another, that's ridiculous. You probably need to eq. Because you source(phone) is crap.


 
   





> It all starts at the source.


 
 Totally agree! I NEVER use EQ and sorry if it sounds harsh but imo smartphones do sound like crap compared to my HW and FW modified DX50. At least haven`t heard one that can get close to it, even when EQ`d szhiiit out of them. And EQ can`t help and won`t affect things like soundstage/imaging/separation/transparency - most of it comes from IEM itself.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

raybone0566 said:


> I apologize, I'm not trying to pick on anyone. I have an iphone6, and compared to any of my daps it doesn't sound as good. It all starts at the source. Sorry if I offended anyone.


 
 Quote:


coil said:


> Quote:
> I`m sorry but I don`t agree with Your subjective opinion and will not follow Your words about Zircons. Not going to argue. Just leave it there. Sorry but I make my own conclusions from Your comments.
> 
> Totally agree! I NEVER use EQ and sorry if it sounds harsh but imo smartphones do sound like crap compared to my HW and FW modified DX50. At least haven`t heard one that can get close to it, even when EQ`d szhiiit out of them. And EQ can`t help and won`t affect things like soundstage/imaging/separation/transparency - most of it comes from IEM itself.


  
 Then you probably don't know what Arkamys and Dolby Atmos are. They are not just EQ. The EQ is just the UI level that you see. It's more complicated than that and only an Android developer can understand what I mean. They are Android system-level AudioEffects, and it is *very* different from a Play Store-ish equalizer. What it can do that a normal app equalizer can't is *override* the software limitations on audio signature and loudness that is set by the Android software itself, because Sony limits the audio output on the *software* level. I'm just pushing the audio output to its full potential, and it did affect soundstage/imaging/separation/transparency *greatly*. I tried that same AudioEffect on a Chinese phone Jiayu G5S, and the sound quality was awful (because the *hardware* is the limitation in that case).
 On my PC, Zircon still sounds the most accurate of them all overall, and I don't use any equalizer there. I just have a headphone amp which is embedded in my sound card Asus Xonar DGX.
 What I'm saying is that Zircon sounds great out-of-the-box, without the need of any amplification or equalization. Xiaomi Piston 3 doesn't. It needs amplification. But even with the sound card amp, Zircon gets even better results.


----------



## leobigfield

igor eisberg said:


> No offense, but earphones like Piston 3 are made to be PORTABLE and used with MOBILE phones.
> So like with the other earphones I have, I compare them with the same equalization methods (Arkamys + Dolby Atmos) on my Xperia Z1, with increased volume output.
> If I need more power for the Piston 3, that my high-end device cannot provide, than Piston 3 sucks. You shouldn't have to drive mobile earphones, and KZ ED10 and Rock Zircon proved that.
> When I use Piston 3 on my computer (which has sound amplified with Asus Xonar DGX) I get some decent sound from them, but still lower than Zircon and even the Sony MH750, and less crispier than KZ IE80.
> Still, it losses its purpose as MOBILE earphones.


 
  
 Well, maybe you didn't understand my point. I have both ED10 and Piston 3 and both can sound equally loud, although i prefer the ED10 signature by miles over the piston 3. They both can get ear-bleeding/hearing aid level out of my phone (Note 2). Xperia Z3 is know for its low power output so maybe the Z1 has the same problem. I'm not saying that you should like them or nothing but if you can't drive them at a proper level maybe your source is limiting your experience with *other earphones* that you could like otherwise if driven properly. Chill out guys...


----------



## Igor Eisberg

leobigfield said:


> Well, maybe you didn't understand my point. I have both ED10 and Piston 3 and both can sound equally loud, although i prefer the ED10 signature by miles over the piston 3. They both can get ear-bleeding/hearing aid level out of my phone (Note 2). Xperia Z3 is know for its low power output so maybe the Z1 has the same problem. I'm not saying that you should like them or nothing but if you can't drive them at a proper level maybe your source is limiting your experience with *other earphones* that you could like otherwise if driven properly. Chill out guys...


 
 It's well known that Xperia phones have low power outputs (about 3mW, which is Zircon's rated output) while Piston 3's are 5mW.
 Another thing is the impenitence. Zircon's 16ohm vs Piston 3's 32ohm, which makes Zircons more suitable for small battery-powered devices, but can get noisy when amplified.
 All these aside guys, I was just giving suggestions from my own experience, you do whatever suits you.


----------



## gtrx333

hisoundfi said:


> My LG G3 is a boss in terms of music playback. Sound as good to my ears as many popular DAPs



Cant say the same for mine. Mines is hiss galore. Thats why i use the cozoy astrapu whenever i can.


----------



## TwinACStacks

The Zircon's are indeed a great earphone, probably the Best I've run into from a Price/Performance level. However they DO have genre-specific limitations. Their Bass, While EXCEPTIONAL for Trance and EDM is a Tad slow for Speed METAL. I find them Stunning for Classical and Jazz as well.
  
 My NEW #1 is However: IS ABSOLUTELY the Bette (F3) 10mm. I can't begin to describe how layered and Balanced it's signature is.
  
 I've posted my thoughts in detail on a couple other threads.
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## Igor Eisberg

hisoundfi said:


> My LG G3 is a boss in terms of music playback. Sound as good to my ears as many popular DAPs


 

 Seriously? My buddy has LG G3 with Beats Solo2, and he was shocked about the sound he was getting after I flashed Dolby Atmos + Arkamys on his phone. Before that, it was very generic sounding, and rather quiet.
  
 Quote:


twinacstacks said:


> The Zircon's are indeed a great earphone, probably the Best I've run into from a Price/Performance level. However they DO have genre-specific limitations. Their Bass, While EXCEPTIONAL for Trance and EDM is a Tad slow for Speed METAL. I find them Stunning for Classical and Jazz as well.
> 
> My NEW #1 is However: IS ABSOLUTELY the Bette (F3) 10mm. I can't begin to describe how layered and Balanced it's signature is.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting! Can't seem to find them anywhere... mind sharing where I can get them, but not for $40? xD


----------



## Lohb

twinacstacks said:


> The Zircon's are indeed a great earphone, probably the Best I've run into from a Price/Performance level. However they DO have genre-specific limitations. Their Bass, While EXCEPTIONAL for Trance and EDM is a Tad slow for Speed METAL. I find them Stunning for Classical and Jazz as well.
> 
> My NEW #1 is However: IS ABSOLUTELY the Bette (F3) 10mm. I can't begin to describe how layered and Balanced it's signature is.
> 
> ...


 

 warm tone or cool/cold tone etc on the Bette ?


----------



## Lohb

Thought my ED9 had died already in one driver but for some reason my Macbook Air volume was slammed to one side away hidden in preferences. Weird !


----------



## RedTwilight

igor eisberg said:


> Interesting! Can't seem to find them anywhere... mind sharing where I can get them, but not for $40? xD




Try Aliexpress, that's where I first found them.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

redtwilight said:


> Try Aliexpress, that's where I first found them.


 

 I've seen them on Ali for $42... it's a little expensive I think, comparing them with the $12.80 Zircon isn't fair XD


----------



## TwinACStacks

lohb said:


> warm tone or cool/cold tone etc on the Bette ?


 





 At first i thought it was a little Bright for my tastes, (I prefer warmer), But after listening to it for almost 8Hrs. Fri Night I concluded: it isn't BRIGHTNESS per se It's DETAIL.
  
 Some May say a mild V for EQ, but I think they are almost flat and balanced.
  
 JMHO mind you.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

igor eisberg said:


> Interesting! Can't seem to find them anywhere... mind sharing where I can get them, but not for $40? xD


 





 Igor I don't think they are less expensive than $43 USD anywhere, (they were originally +$70). UNLESS you Try the Smaller 8mm Version which is getting very good reviews. Here are links for Both:
  
 From the ORIGINAL Manufacturer Store, BTW
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/321814718008?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/321814730671?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I also realize it's not a fair comparison single to multi Driver and pricepoint BUT who would be in a better position to make an assessment? I own 2 Pairs Of the Zircons and the 10mm bettes.
  
 OH, and now thanx to your link, I have a Pair of the Mula's on the way.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Guess I'll just have to walk to work.
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## eaglearrow

hisoundfi said:


> My LG G3 is a boss in terms of music playback. Sound as good to my ears as many popular DAPs


 

@Hisoundfi Do LG g3 have a line out or just the HO?


----------



## Hisoundfi

eaglearrow said:


> @Hisoundfi
> Do LG g3 have a line out or just the HO?


For 3.5mm lines it's just a HP out,but the beauty of it is it supports most USB OTG devices.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

twinacstacks said:


> OH, and now thanx to your link, I have a Pair of the Mula's on the way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You're a funny guy XD Yeah ROCK definitely earned my trust with their first earphones. Let's hope their second won't disappoint.


----------



## TwinACStacks

igor eisberg said:


> You're a funny guy XD Yeah ROCK definitely earned my trust with their first earphones. Let's hope their second won't disappoint.


 





 From the Pic It almost looks to be the Same Driver in a different body. Do they say what the body is made of?
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

Love how Zircon/Rock has taken over this thread, haha. Twin or one of you other guys need to make an appreciation thread for those beauties! I would do it, but well, I don't own em yet, lol.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

twinacstacks said:


> From the Pic It almost looks to be the Same Driver in a different body. Do they say what the body is made of?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It looks like it by the pictures, but let's remember that this driver is 9mm (vs 8mm of Zircon), it's input power is 3mW (vs 1mW of Zircon) and rated power of 5mW (vs 3mW of Zircon), so I'm expecting a true bomb here, no less.
  


b9scrambler said:


> Love how Zircon/Rock has taken over this thread, haha. Twin or one of you other guys need to make an appreciation thread for those beauties! I would do it, but well, I don't own em yet, lol.


 

 +1 for the ROCK Earphones thread. If Knowledge Zenith has one, I think ROCK definitely deserves one! It took KZ until ED10 to reach well-deserved recognition around here, but it only took the Zircon for ROCK to reach that recognition. 
 You definitely should get the Zircon, I just ordered a spare one if anything ever happens to my current ones since I'm using them daily.


----------



## slowpickr

igor eisberg said:


> It looks like it by the pictures, but let's remember that this driver is 9mm (vs 8mm of Zircon), it's input power is 3mW (vs 1mW of Zircon) and rated power of 5mW (vs 3mW of Zircon), so I'm expecting a true bomb here, no less.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




ROCK thread created!


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> It took KZ until ED10 to reach well-deserved recognition around here, but it only took the Zircon for ROCK to reach that recognition.




Very enthusiastic statement. KZ wa s well-regarded well before the ED10. That's just been the most recent icing on the ED9, ATE, ANV, EDSE, Micro Ring, et. cake.


----------



## theuprising

b9scrambler said:


> Very enthusiastic statement. KZ wa s well-regarded well before the ED10. That's just been the most recent icing on the ED9, ATE, ANV, EDSE, Micro Ring, et. cake.


 
 Probably b/c the ED10 is v-shaped and that's the most popular type of headphone?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

theuprising said:


> Probably b/c the ED10 is v-shaped and that's the most popular type of headphone?


 
 Probably that. I got those EDSE (=ED2) and I wasn't impressed. Sony's earphones that were bundled with my Xperia smartphone sound more detailed, ED2 sounds more like listening through a can. The sound isn't that bad, it's just unremarkable and forgettable. KZ GR are too bass-oriented and they lack any mids and highs whatsoever, the sound is completely inaccurate, and they are so big and heavy that they barely stay in the ear. KZ IE80 is great for the Hi-Res lovers, but it's rather expensive and barely got any mass attention. Can't say much about the other KZ's only that they mostly heavy and uncomfortable to wear and/or look like overblown spaceships with childish markings on them that are laughable to look at (ED8m & ED9). That's where the ED10 comes in and changes the game. It is very comfortable and stays firmly in the ear. I'd say since ATE, ED10 and the new ZN1 they completely changed their image, and make more effort to appeal to the wider public.


----------



## CADCAM

Listened to my ED9's for several hours yesterday and I truly can't believe how marvelous they sound irrespective of price. I purchased a second pair so I can have one set up with brass nozzles and the other with the gold. Amazing! I have some decent equipment and the ED9 punches so high above its price. So glad I found this thread which turned me on to some great IEM for the hot summer here in N.E. and even though the temps are dropping I'm keeping the ED9 (ED10 & ATE also) close by. I would say if you have someone who just appreciates good sound point them toward the ED10, if they are a more analytical listener and like options the ED9 is it and if they prefer a smoother laid back yet still excellent sound quality the ATE is fantastic!


----------



## RedTwilight

Apparently there's an ED11 now. Look like the ED10 with a more golden back.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/FGSAGHHJH/523133_32464558733.html


----------



## CADCAM

igor eisberg said:


> Probably that. I got those EDSE (=ED2) and I wasn't impressed. Sony's earphones that were bundled with my Xperia smartphone sound more detailed, ED2 sounds more like listening through a can. The sound isn't that bad, it's just unremarkable and forgettable. KZ GR are too bass-oriented and they lack any mids and highs whatsoever, the sound is completely inaccurate, and they are so big and heavy that they barely stay in the ear. KZ IE80 is great for the Hi-Res lovers, but it's rather expensive and barely got any mass attention. Can't say much about the other KZ's only that they mostly heavy and uncomfortable to wear and/or look like overblown spaceships with childish markings on them that are laughable to look at (ED8m & ED9). That's where the ED10 comes in and changes the game. It is very comfortable and stays firmly in the ear. I'd say since ATE, ED10 and the new ZN1 they completely changed their image, and make more effort to appeal to the wider public.


 

 You make some pretty bold statements there Igor, I have the EDse and although it's not my favorite Kz it does not sound like a "can" on my setup. I can tell you emphatically that the ED9 does not fall out of my ears and even the ATE's stay right in there. Its actually a bit ironic but the ED10 sits the most shallow in my ear and if any would seem likely to fall out I'd say they would, although they never have.
 At any rate I've ordered the Zircon so I can hear just how good they are. More to follow but I will post on the Rock thread as I believe this thread should be for discussing Kz's offerings.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

redtwilight said:


> Apparently there's an ED11 now. Look like the ED10 with a more golden back.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/FGSAGHHJH/523133_32464558733.html


 

 Looks very suspicious, got to say... How come this random store has it before the official stores...


----------



## soundstige

igor eisberg said:


> Looks very suspicious, got to say... How come this random store has it before the official stores...


 
  
 Aliexpress isn't random, they're like Amazon for other parts of the world. Many smaller companies in Asia premier their products there.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ED11...huh. Wonder if they will just be a mild retune or offer up a whole new signature.


----------



## ayao

soundstige said:


> Aliexpress isn't random, they're like Amazon for other parts of the world. Many smaller companies in Asia premier their products there.


 
 Igor Eisberg is not talking about AliExpress as whole, but rather that one seller. There are some AliExpress sellers which we consider as "official" stores (ones that only sell KZ models), but maybe we should get Horton to clarify this. The fact that there is only one (random) seller selling the ED11 at the moment makes it suspicious. If it is real, then I wonder why KZ decided to give it a new model number instead of making it an ED10 variant like they did with the red/blue ED8.


----------



## RedTwilight

It isn't the first time another shop managed to get products before the 'official flagship store(s, there are 2)'  though. It happened for the ATE and ED9 too.


----------



## ayao

hifichris said:


> Has anyone that ordered the ZN1 from AliExpress already received it?
> 
> Mine hasn't arrived yet and the tracking doesn't work.


 
 Just got my ZN1 from the AliExpress sale. I'm going back to work (went home for a quick lunch break) now, so I can't give any OOTB impressions, sorry.
  
 EDIT: With my iPod Touch 5, Galaxy S5 and HTC One, there is minimal hiss when the EQBOX is on (think of an even more sensitive Ostry). There is no noise in passive mode, although the volume level is the same as when the amp/EQBOX set to max volume (14). However, the earphones don't work with my work PC. It's basically all static/noise and the audio sounds like the jack is plugged in halfway.
  
 With the EQBOX, the bass can go from ED9 brass levels to ASG2 levels (too much & muddy) quantity-wise.
 Overall, I would say the sound signature is warm/thick with a smooth top end. It's less V-shaped than the ED10, but those who are used to the nice sub-bass of the ED10 might not like the higher level of mid-bass on the ZN1. This is with the EQBOX/amp turned off.
 Soundstage is definitely better than the ED10, and this is probably due to its design.
  
 I don't have any other IEMs with me atm (still at work), so I can't go further in detail. I've been mentioning the ED10 only because that's the IEM I've been using for the past 2 weeks. I have to say though, while my initial impressions were negative with the ATE and ED9, they've been positive with the ED10 and ZN1. YMMV


----------



## peter123

igor eisberg said:


> It looks like it by the pictures, but let's remember that this driver is 9mm (vs 8mm of Zircon), it's input power is 3mW (vs 1mW of Zircon) and rated power of 5mW (vs 3mW of Zircon), so I'm expecting a true bomb here, no less.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm sorry to breake it to you but KZ have been highly regarded for a long time, it's just you that's late to the party 

This thread is 1,5 yo and was started for a reason. 

Has KZ evolved and released new and better IEM's during this period? Yes ofcourse but so has pretty much every other company if you exclude the "old" big name companies that takes a looong time on every new release.


----------



## HiFiChris

Does anybody know which model was Knowledge Zenith's very first IEM?


----------



## Horton

Quote:


b9scrambler said:


> ED11...huh. Wonder if they will just be a mild retune or offer up a whole new signature.


 
 ED11 is not the Formal version, it is said that is the revise the ED10, the sound is similar.
 So that, If I didnot have ED10, will think about to get this one.


----------



## theuprising

cadcam said:


> Listened to my ED9's for several hours yesterday and I truly can't believe how marvelous they sound irrespective of price. I purchased a second pair so I can have one set up with brass nozzles and the other with the gold. Amazing! I have some decent equipment and the ED9 punches so high above its price. So glad I found this thread which turned me on to some great IEM for the hot summer here in N.E. and even though the temps are dropping I'm keeping the ED9 (ED10 & ATE also) close by. I would say if you have someone who just appreciates good sound point them toward the ED10, if they are a more analytical listener and like options the ED9 is it and if they prefer a smoother laid back yet still excellent sound quality the ATE is fantastic!


 

 As an owner of both, if you liked the ED9, the Havi B3 will be worth the money. The ED9 is great, but its price point definitely shows as everything sounds a bit metallic. The Havi also has a larger soundstage and better isolation. The sound signature isn't a 1:1 match however and the Havi's treble is more laid back. The Havi responds MUCH better to EQ, especially lower bass EQ which is a lost cause for the ED9.


----------



## ayao

horton said:


> Quote:
> ED11 is not the Formal version, it is said that is the revise the ED10, the sound is similar.
> So that, If I didnot have ED10, will think about to get this one.


 
 Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Charliemotta

hifichris said:


> Does anybody know which model was Knowledge Zenith's very first IEM?


 
 Possibly the KZ A1?


----------



## RedTwilight

So i just received the ZN1......
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 KZ WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING???? The iem is beautiful! It fits incredibly comfy!! feels like the Heir universals in my ears man! and the sound. The SOUND is INCREDIBLE (in passive mode). Such a gigantic soundstage! And that's coming from a Havi user. It's a Havi with BASS. And maybe a little less top end sparkle. but WOW.
  
 Then i turn on the amp section.....
  
  
 Mehhh sound became super tinny and distant. even my phone can produce louder volume in passive mode. @Horton I don't care about the separate amp sections but please PLEASE release this as a standalone! Without the Eqbox. I'll buy it. As is it's better off recabled imo. Thankfully they let it run on passive mode..


----------



## CoiL

redtwilight said:


> Apparently there's an ED11 now. Look like the ED10 with a more golden back.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/FGSAGHHJH/523133_32464558733.html


 

 Wonder if it`s only external looks change like ATE basically had or sound signature has also changed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Who`s willing to take a shot for everybody?
  


redtwilight said:


> KZ WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING???? The iem is beautiful! It fits incredibly comfy!! feels like the Heir universals in my ears man! and the sound. The SOUND is INCREDIBLE (in passive mode). Such a gigantic soundstage! And that's coming from a Havi user. It's a Havi with BASS. And maybe a little less top end sparkle. but WOW.


 
 You caught my intrest in these now... BUT... for that price range there are many others to try with lot of positive feedback without needing to be recabled etc.


----------



## ayao

redtwilight said:


> So i just received the ZN1......
> 
> 
> KZ WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING???? The iem is beautiful! It fits incredibly comfy!! feels like the Heir universals in my ears man! and the sound. The SOUND is INCREDIBLE (in passive mode). Such a gigantic soundstage! And that's coming from a Havi user. It's a Havi with BASS. And maybe a little less top end sparkle. but WOW.
> ...


 
 I'm glad I'm not the only who isn't disappointed in the ZN1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My impressions (previous page) are quite similar to yours as well, good soundstage, (mid)bass, smooth treble, amp doesn't go louder than passive mode...


----------



## RedTwilight

coil said:


> Wonder if it`s only external looks change like ATE basically had or sound signature has also changed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  Totally agree. KZ needs to release this iem on its own. It would be worth it even if it was $30.


----------



## peter123

charliemotta said:


> Possibly the KZ A1?




Yes, I also believe that was the first one that was talked about in here.


----------



## Chief Stringer

coil said:


> Wonder if it`s only external looks change like ATE basically had or sound signature has also changed :rolleyes: Who`s willing to take a shot for everybody?



Looks like it has the same frequency response, strange that they would give it a different name though


----------



## joemama

coil said:


> Wonder if it`s only external looks change like ATE basically had or sound signature has also changed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thought about buying ED11 but I'm going to wait a while when the prices drop a bit and more vendors start offering it.


----------



## leobigfield

igor eisberg said:


> Probably that. I got those EDSE (=ED2) and I wasn't impressed. Sony's earphones that were bundled with my Xperia smartphone sound more detailed, ED2 sounds more like listening through a can. The sound isn't that bad, it's just unremarkable and forgettable. KZ GR are too bass-oriented and they lack any mids and highs whatsoever, the sound is completely inaccurate, and they are so big and heavy that they barely stay in the ear. KZ IE80 is great for the Hi-Res lovers, but it's rather expensive and barely got any mass attention. Can't say much about the other KZ's only that they mostly heavy and uncomfortable to wear and/or look like overblown spaceships with childish markings on them that are laughable to look at (ED8m & ED9). That's where the ED10 comes in and changes the game. It is very comfortable and stays firmly in the ear. I'd say since ATE, ED10 and the new ZN1 they completely changed their image, and make more effort to appeal to the wider public.
> 
> 
> It looks like it by the pictures, but let's remember that this driver is 9mm (vs 8mm of Zircon), it's input power is 3mW (vs 1mW of Zircon) and rated power of 5mW (vs 3mW of Zircon), so I'm expecting a true bomb here, no less.
> ...


 
  
 Just some thoughts: You use a highly DSP modded source so would be wise to also state that on your opinions about earphones, makes things easier to someone who didn't read your past coments.
  
 ROCK didn't reach anything yet. Hype is very different from recognition. Not saying that they don't sound good or nothing. KZ's is around these forums for almost 2 years (first from the asian/chinese thread, now with it's own thread) so let's see if they will survive after 1 year +, making various releases with continuous improvement or fade away like many before them.


----------



## gtrx333

Picked up the zn1 today from the post office. Sound pretty good to me. They kinda sound like ATEs with the clarity of the ED9. They do sound reasonably good passively but with the amp turned on, you can add a nice bit of warmth to the sound. But yeah the quality of these are pretty poor. Initially the amp wasn't powering on and I ended up opening it up to see i there was anything obviously wrong. Didn't do anything but they started working, And also they hiss quite a bit, whenever they is no music playing or when I press the mic button it gets particularly bad. Also they only sound good out of my phone and not my computer (even passively). It's as if only one out of the dual drivers is working. Its odd as usually four pole iems work fine out of the pc.


----------



## raybone0566

leobigfield said:


> Just some thoughts: You use a highly DSP modded source so would be wise to also state that on your opinions about earphones, makes things easier to someone who didn't read your past coments.
> 
> ROCK didn't reach anything yet. Hype is very different from recognition. Not saying that they don't sound good or nothing. KZ's is around these forums for almost 2 years (first from the asian/chinese thread, now with it's own thread) so let's see if they will survive after 1 year +, making various releases with continuous improvement or fade away like many before them.


+1 on that. Kz's price to performance has been outstanding with quite a few of their last offerings. Zircon is a damn good earphone, but I still feel ed9 bests it in detail retrieval.


----------



## EISENbricher

redtwilight said:


> So i just received the ZN1......
> 
> 
> KZ WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING???? The iem is beautiful! It fits incredibly comfy!! feels like the Heir universals in my ears man! and the sound. The SOUND is INCREDIBLE (in passive mode). Such a gigantic soundstage! And that's coming from a Havi user. It's a Havi with BASS. And maybe a little less top end sparkle. but WOW.
> ...


 
 Exactly what I demand.... I have decent hardware and I've carefully tuned everything to suit my taste, I don't really want another processing section. Release this and I'm sold!


----------



## Charliemotta

Agreed.  I sent mine back last week.


----------



## CADCAM

leobigfield said:


> Just some thoughts: You use a highly DSP modded source so would be wise to also state that on your opinions about earphones, makes things easier to someone who didn't read your past coments.
> 
> ROCK didn't reach anything yet. Hype is very different from recognition. Not saying that they don't sound good or nothing. KZ's is around these forums for almost 2 years (first from the asian/chinese thread, now with it's own thread) so let's see if they will survive after 1 year +, making various releases with continuous improvement or fade away like many before them.


 
 I've just ordered the Zircon and listen about as pure as possible... a dvd\cd player as a transport to an external DAC into a dedicated hp amp so I'll post some comments on the sound on the ROCK thread.
 I have an EQ but can't bring myself to cable it into the system. I will be using my Beresford Capella amp as it has a gain knob which is very useful when listening to IEM.


----------



## HiFiChris

Screw you, German Deutsche Post Filiale (office) in my city!

 Screenshot of the translated Chinese online tracking information of my ZN1:
  



 When I found the notification card in my letterbox on Friday that told me to come the next day to pick up my delivery the next day, I was too jittery and went the same day.
 The angry employee said that I was too early etc. but nevertheless gave gave me one bolstered letter and took the delivery card (it is always taken as proof of delivery) - the bad thing is, the lazy postman only wrote down that one letter arrived and what she gave me was the letter with the EDSE - seems like the ZN1 (and possibly whatever else) is still at the post office.
  
 That will be fun going there tomorrow or the day after to explain them that the employee only handed over one letter - good thing I checked the tracking. But in the end, it was all due to my impatience.


----------



## bhazard

redtwilight said:


> So i just received the ZN1......
> 
> I don't care about the separate amp sections but please PLEASE release this as a standalone! Without the Eqbox. I'll buy it. As is it's better off recabled imo. Thankfully they let it run on passive mode..


 
  
 Standalone probably won't sound as good. The EQ box is set up almost like a balanced connection, with a separate ground to each ear. The soundstage and black background is most likely because of that. Recabling to unbalanced might decrease the SQ.


----------



## leobigfield

bhazard said:


> Standalone probably won't sound as good. The EQ box is set up almost like a balanced connection, with a separate ground to each ear. The soundstage and black background is most likely because of that. Recabling to unbalanced might decrease the SQ.


 
  
 Don't think so since they still share the same ground because of the source.


----------



## twister6

Got ZN1 today, thank you KZ for providing a review sample!  Unfortunately, my first impression is not so positive. 
  
 Sound quality is great, very spacious dynamic sound, and it's nice to have a separate adjustable Treble and Bass controls.  Build quality is solid with thick cables, but amp/EQ box itself is rather bulky and feels weird to have a dongle the size of a small mp3 player as your "y-splitter"   The problem is that it ONLY works in passive mode with my smartphone.  I tried it with X5ii, X3ii, N6, N5, AP100, QA360 - it only work with a power on, while in passive mode you get this sound artifact when you use TRRS plug with old mp3 players or some older headphones with apple in-remote.  Pretty such ZN1 TRRS connector in passive mode is not compatible with any of my DAPs, and it doesn't even work in active mode with AK120ii.  With all other DAPs it works fine in active mode.
  
 I guess the intention is to use it with a smartphone where it works in both passive and active modes.  I really like it in passive mode, actually, make it - I LOVE it in passive mode   No need to adjust any treble or bass, great by default.  The way I look at it, ZN1 is intended for use with a smartphone, but it's really bulky and uncomfortable.
  
 Bottom line, I think it would be AWESOME if KZ can make ZN1 Light without amp/EQ - just a passive model.  Also curious if the current ZN1 model can be "re-wired"


----------



## Shawn71

bhazard said:


> Standalone probably won't sound as good. The EQ box is set up almost like a balanced connection, with a separate ground to each ear. The soundstage and black background is most likely because of that. Recabling to unbalanced might decrease the SQ.


 

 I doubt its balanced but the electronic box is just a Y splitter at the exit of amp stage(output).......and there wont be any fruitful result if there are no balanced sources used, discrete grounding ene-end that is.


----------



## bhazard

So the ZN1 is surprisingly enjoyable. Unlike everyone saying passive mode is better though, I have to disagree. Too much midbass taking away from the music. This is with Comply tips though. Need to try my spiral dots later. Source: Geek Out V2+ Infinity
  
 Use: Treble 8-9
          Bass 6-7


----------



## bhazard

Twister, try this adapter:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-Audio-OMTP-to-CTIA-CTIA-to-OMTP-Converter-Male-to-Female-Socket-Adapter-/361260009816?hash=item541cc64958


----------



## bhazard

ZN1 plays nicer with my Asus Zenfone 2 compared to my V2+. The amp is probably too powerful for it.
  
 The sound is impressive. It's handling metal quite well with a nice bass punch included.


----------



## twister6

bhazard said:


> Twister, try this adapter:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-Audio-OMTP-to-CTIA-CTIA-to-OMTP-Converter-Male-to-Female-Socket-Adapter-/361260009816?hash=item541cc64958


 
  
 Are you able to use it with this adapter in passive mode from your DAPs?  I would be very curious, since I have a handful of similar adapters, and none of them work.  The one which used to do the trick all the time was HiFiMAN adapter with RE400B (balanced version of 400 which came with HM700, so you can used those balanced wired IEMs with a regular TRS socket), and it still doesn't work.  So, I'm curious which one would work.
  
 Overall, sound is VERY good, very impressive expanded soundstage, but if I can drive it in passive mode from my Note 4 and get such an impressive results, I don't care about treble and bass adjustment and just want a regular pair of headphones with this sound signature!!!  They sound fantastic, just don't see a need for this massive dongle


----------



## bhazard

twister6 said:


> Are you able to use it with this adapter in passive mode from your DAPs?  I would be very curious, since I have a handful of similar adapters, and none of them work.  The one which used to do the trick all the time was HiFiMAN adapter with RE400B (balanced version of 400 which came with HM700, so you can used those balanced wired IEMs with a regular TRS socket), and it still doesn't work.  So, I'm curious which one would work.
> 
> Overall, sound is VERY good, very impressive expanded soundstage, but if I can drive it in passive mode from my Note 4 and get such an impressive results, I don't care about treble and bass adjustment and just want a regular pair of headphones with this sound signature!!!  They sound fantastic, just don't see a need for this massive dongle


 
 I don't really have a DAP onhand to test.
  
 Passive mode sounds great with pop, hip hop, and edm. DSP sounds best for metal, intricate rock so far.


----------



## twister6

bhazard said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you able to use it with this adapter in passive mode from your DAPs?  I would be very curious, since I have a handful of similar adapters, and none of them work.  The one which used to do the trick all the time was HiFiMAN adapter with RE400B (balanced version of 400 which came with HM700, so you can used those balanced wired IEMs with a regular TRS socket), and it still doesn't work.  So, I'm curious which one would work.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks man!  Really appreciate your replies!  Tempted to order another adapter, but I'm not so sure it will "fix it".
  
@Hisoundfi or anybody else who got ZN1, were you successful in driving it in passive mode from a regular DAP?  If not, which adapter have you used for it?


----------



## RedTwilight

eisenbricher said:


> Exactly what I demand.... I have decent hardware and I've carefully tuned everything to suit my taste, I don't really want another processing section. Release this and I'm sold!


 
  


bhazard said:


> Standalone probably won't sound as good. The EQ box is set up almost like a balanced connection, with a separate ground to each ear. The soundstage and black background is most likely because of that. Recabling to unbalanced might decrease the SQ.


 
  
 I was also thinking since the source isn't balanced anyway, maybe it wont affect that much. The X3 has used a balanced plug before however.
  


twister6 said:


> Thanks man!  Really appreciate your replies!  Tempted to order another adapter, but I'm not so sure it will "fix it".
> 
> @Hisoundfi or anybody else who got ZN1, were you successful in driving it in passive mode from a regular DAP?  If not, which adapter have you used for it?


 
  
 I managed to run it out of my E12DIY (which is physically basically the same as the regular E12) without issue. Didn't try to run it out of the X3 HO but I'll do that later.


----------



## twister6

redtwilight said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> twister6 said:
> ...


 
  
 In passive mode (power off)?  I just tried it with E12A and Q1, doesn't work with power off


----------



## RedTwilight

twister6 said:


> In passive mode (power off)?  I just tried it with E12A and Q1, doesn't work with power off


 
  
 ?? That's really weird. I could just switch it on and off while music was playing even. Anybody else with this issue? After testing with the X3 HO at least we'll know if the E12DIY is just special or if this particular ZN1 is weird. Either way a standalone would be fantastic. Preferably with the Y-splitter and integrated cinch from the ANV. @Horton


----------



## EarTips

twister6 said:


> ... anybody else who got ZN1, were you successful in driving it in passive mode from a regular DAP?  If not, which adapter have you used for it?


 
  
 no problem with using the clip+/iphone in both modes here


----------



## Chief Stringer

ED10s just arrived, first kz iem ive owned (ordered ate and ed9 ages ago but havnt arrived yet), orderer from teresa, fast delivery to uk, first impressions really good for the price i paid, bass seems decent but abit lacking in sub bass, and the treble seems abit harsh, mids sound very very good for the price, im wondering mainly will the treble simmer down after abit of burn in?


----------



## lesp4ul

chief stringer said:


> ED10s just arrived, first kz iem ive owned (ordered ate and ed9 ages ago but havnt arrived yet), orderer from teresa, fast delivery to uk, first impressions really good for the price i paid, bass seems decent but abit lacking in sub bass, and the treble seems abit harsh, mids sound very very good for the price, im wondering mainly will the treble simmer down after abit of burn in?




Mine also just arrived, try changing the tips. If you have ed9 or ed3/edse use the red tips on your ed10. Spinfit also gives good result, now i'm trying tips from my other iem.


----------



## B9Scrambler

lesp4ul said:


> Mine also just arrived, try changing the tips. If you have ed9 or ed3/edse use the red tips on your ed10. Spinfit also gives good result, now i'm trying tips from my other iem.




Are those Red Giant tips on there? I love their tips, but they aren't overly compatible with my ears unfortunately. :/


----------



## lesp4ul

b9scrambler said:


> lesp4ul said:
> 
> 
> > Mine also just arrived, try changing the tips. If you have ed9 or ed3/edse use the red tips on your ed10. Spinfit also gives good result, now i'm trying tips from my other iem.
> ...




Ha, yes . Me too, just experimenting. These tips gimme an itchy feeling after few minutes.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

b9scrambler said:


> Are those Red Giant tips on there? I love their tips, but they aren't overly compatible with my ears unfortunately. :/


 

 Had the same problem, the tips you get on ED10 are M-size but they are actually smaller, so I had to buy S-M-L set of those whirlwind tips and the L ones were perfect.


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> Had the same problem, the tips you get on ED10 are M-size but they are actually smaller, so I had to buy S-M-L set of those whirlwind tips and the L ones were perfect.




I can't get a proper seal for the life of me with those whirlwind tips. The stock black ones that come with most KZs are fine though.

I ended up swapping to the black mediums that come with the Don Scorpio Bass Colour. Not a high quality tip, but they pair really well with the ED10s.


----------



## 1clearhead

About the ZN1's.....
  
 Has anyone thought about recabling the ZN1's and getting rid of the Amp/EQ box in the process?


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Wonder if it`s only external looks change like ATE basically had or sound signature has also changed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well for the price I jumped on the brass backed gunmetal ED11's, less than my average dinner with tip!
  
 Reviews too mixed for me on the ZN1 even at $49 and I absolutely love the way they look but it seems they tried to do too much to fast with these. Alex almost made me jump when he described the passive mode but think I'm just to wait while team heaf-fi pushes a stand alone passive model


----------



## raybone0566

I





1clearhead said:


> About the ZN1's.....
> 
> Has anyone thought about recabling the ZN1's and getting rid of the Amp/EQ box in the process?
> [/quoteI'm going to tackle that this weekend


----------



## 1clearhead

raybone0566 said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great! Keep us posted, raybone.


----------



## twister6

Just tried ZN1 with Clip Sport, xDuoo X2, and ONN and Ruizu chinese mp3 players - none works in a passive mode, only with power on in active mode.  Btw, when I say it doesn't work in passive mode, I mean sound is distorted, with echo/delay, like it's coming from a cave, no bass.  Once you turn the power on - it's a rich, dynamic, spacious sound.
  
 In a passive mode ZN1 only works with my Note 4, S5, and Nexus 7 HD (but not the original Nexus 7).
  
 ZN1 needs a "light" version without a EQ/amp boxes.  If they could make one, it would be another KILLER KZ product!!!


----------



## Lohb

Are you really supposed to use foam tips when exercising with IEMs ? I find I have to take mine out a lot to dry them off though it is humid where I exercise outside.
 Do comply tips stop the sweat build up ? Make SQ worse on ED9 ?


----------



## ajaxender

lohb said:


> Are you really supposed to use foam tips when exercising with IEMs ? I find I have to take mine out a lot to dry them off though it is humid where I exercise outside.
> Do comply tips stop the sweat build up ? Make SQ worse on ED9 ?


 
  
 Not supposed to, necessarily. The key is you want to prevent sweat getting between the tip and your skin; you need both a good firm seal, and an IEM that fits well and isn't going to move. Foam tips, particularly good quality ones like Complys help with the former, but good silicone tips that work well for your ears can do the job nearly as well. They're also easier to deal with when the sweat wins, because it will. You can't stop it if you're going hard enough (and if you're not, whats the point?). 
  
 I find the IEM is the bigger factor, something big and heavy will never work well for high movement exercise or activity. Can't comment on the ED9s directly but if they're anything like the ED8s, EDSEs, or the RXs then I don't think they'll be well suited. ED10 though, I think will be great (haven't tested it yet). This is why most 'sport' IEMs are either over-ear only, or have wings/loops/etc to keep them in your ear.


----------



## bhazard

twister6 said:


> Just tried ZN1 with Clip Sport, xDuoo X2, and ONN and Ruizu chinese mp3 players - none works in a passive mode, only with power on in active mode.  Btw, when I say it doesn't work in passive mode, I mean sound is distorted, with echo/delay, like it's coming from a cave, no bass.  Once you turn the power on - it's a rich, dynamic, spacious sound.
> 
> In a passive mode ZN1 only works with my Note 4, S5, and Nexus 7 HD (but not the original Nexus 7).
> 
> ZN1 needs a "light" version without a EQ/amp boxes.  If they could make one, it would be another KILLER KZ product!!!




Now that you mention that, I'm almost positive the OMTP adapter will fix it. That sound you hear is what happens when you plug in an OMTP iem into CTIA. Happened with the piston 2's on some sources I used to have.

Anyone try my dsp setting yet? I swear it's much less dark than passive mode. Passive would be great for cold, thin sources like the fiio x1, but mine all seem too warm with it.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I just KNEW those ZN1 were going to have problems. HELL, I don't even like in-line mics.
  
 I'll wait for the unamped version.
  








 TWIN


----------



## twister6

bhazard said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Just tried ZN1 with Clip Sport, xDuoo X2, and ONN and Ruizu chinese mp3 players - none works in a passive mode, only with power on in active mode.  Btw, when I say it doesn't work in passive mode, I mean sound is distorted, with echo/delay, like it's coming from a cave, no bass.  Once you turn the power on - it's a rich, dynamic, spacious sound.
> ...


 
  
 Just ordered one from your link.  Perhaps the one I had before was impedance adapters rather than OMTP one.  Got too many of these 
  
 Will report back once I get it, but still hope they will make a passive version of it...


----------



## Lohb

ajaxender said:


> Not supposed to, necessarily. The key is you want to prevent sweat getting between the tip and your skin; you need both a good firm seal, and an IEM that fits well and isn't going to move. Foam tips, particularly good quality ones like Complys help with the former, but good silicone tips that work well for your ears can do the job nearly as well. They're also easier to deal with when the sweat wins, because it will. You can't stop it if you're going hard enough (and if you're not, whats the point?).
> 
> I find the IEM is the bigger factor, something big and heavy will never work well for high movement exercise or activity. Can't comment on the ED9s directly but if they're anything like the ED8s, EDSEs, or the RXs then I don't think they'll be well suited. ED10 though, I think will be great (haven't tested it yet). This is why most 'sport' IEMs are either over-ear only, or have wings/loops/etc to keep them in your ear.


 

 Thanks, I do use ear hooks with the ED9, will give the ED10s a try and see if they are any better.


----------



## HiFiChris

hifichris said:


> Screw you, German Deutsche Post Filiale (office) in my city!
> 
> Screenshot of the translated Chinese online tracking information of my ZN1:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nothing at the post office 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 I think the ZN1 got lost or the mailman is a budget IEM burglar and stole the package whilst filling in that the ZN1 was deposited at the post office. Dang it!


----------



## ajaxender

lohb said:


> Thanks, I do use ear hooks with the ED9, will give the ED10s a try and see if they are any better.


 
  
 I just used mine before, for the first time in fact, while exercising. They're perfect for it! So easy to fit, both cable up and down, and with good tips they simply do not budge. UE600 replicas worked really well. This particular exercise was running/jumping/sprinting up and down a small extinct volcano, so when I say they don't move - they really don't!
  
 I'm looking forward to Trinity's new sport iems for a near-perfect overall package, but if you're not spending that kind of money then I don't see how you could go past these.


----------



## Lohb

ajaxender said:


> I just used mine before, for the first time in fact, while exercising. They're perfect for it! So easy to fit, both cable up and down, and with good tips they simply do not budge. UE600 replicas worked really well. This particular exercise was running/jumping/sprinting up and down a small extinct volcano, so when I say they don't move - they really don't!
> 
> I'm looking forward to Trinity's new sport iems for a near-perfect overall package, but if you're not spending that kind of money then I don't see how you could go past these.


 

 I want to run up and down an extinct volcano with my KZs but alas, it is just a free elliptical trainer I use !


----------



## ajaxender

lohb said:


> I want to run up and down an extinct volcano with my KZs but alas, it is just a free elliptical trainer I use !


 
  
 I encourage you to try it if you have one handy, haha. Not gonna lie, its a big part of why I love where I live, that plus the beach next to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Elliptical is pretty smooth motion (not necessarily easy!) so it won't be as big an issue for you, but all it takes is a decision to do something more bumpy. Plus better fit means its even harder for sweat to get in and annoy you. Hopefully the ED10 will still fit your tastes as the ED9 does, although its certainly not a bad sound by any means.


----------



## HiFiChris

hifichris said:


> Screenshot of the translated Chinese online tracking information of my ZN1:




Is there any chance that my ZN1 is neither lost nor stolen but still somewhere on its way to me? There was nothing at the post office yesterday though the tracking says it should have arrived there on Friday. :-/

*Does anybody have experience with this?*


----------



## ayao

I just realized my ZN1 is reversed... listening to music doesn't really put me off, but I can't play CS:GO with it lol


----------



## SWLIU

ayao said:


> I just realized my ZN1 is reversed... listening to music doesn't really put me off, but I can't play CS:GO with it lol


 
 Mine was reversed as well and had to return it...


----------



## CADCAM

ayao said:


> I just realized my ZN1 is reversed... listening to music doesn't really put me off, but I can't play CS:GO with it lol


 
 You mean the channels (left & right) are reversed right? That drove me nuts on a amp I bought and had to send it back. Come on... where is QC nowadays?


----------



## daikini

Ooh no, not another one !
  
*http://tinyurl.com/osv8h9s*
  
 Just bought ED9, ED10, ATE (and Zircon)


----------



## daikini

Anyone ordered ED-11 yet?
 Same form factor as ED-10 it appears


----------



## Podster

daikini said:


> Anyone ordered ED-11 yet?
> Same form factor as ED-10 it appears


 

 Yes, it appears so. They do have the gun metal finish and brass back caps so we shall see what else may be different
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 AliExpress sent shipping verification so about 2 weeks for me usually.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Anyone else find the ED10s pretty harsh somewhere around the 4k region? And quite abit lacking in midbass? Will burn in help?


----------



## TwinACStacks

chief stringer said:


> Anyone else find the ED10s pretty harsh somewhere around the 4k region? And quite abit lacking in midbass? Will burn in help?


 






 On the ED10, YES. The bass fills out and becomes fast and percussive. It's a little bloated OTB. I think these really have a focus in that Mid vocal range, but I don't think it's overdone. Again burn in seems to blend the sound together into something more cohesive.
  
 JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## ayao

chief stringer said:


> Anyone else find the ED10s pretty harsh somewhere around the 4k region? And quite abit lacking in midbass? Will burn in help?


 
 I found the midbass to be a bit lacking as well (though the ZN1 can do with a little less midbass haha), but to me the ED10 has the smallest peak in the 4khz region. The ED10's peak is actually closer to 5khz (when I use a tone generator), whereas all my other KZ IEMs are closer to 4khz. Even then, the ED10 still has the smallest midrange peak to my ears.


----------



## JamesBr

daikini said:


> Anyone ordered ED-11 yet?
> Same form factor as ED-10 it appears


 
 I wish I did, def gonna look into the details of a purchase soon 
 feel free to let comments!


----------



## Trapok

Received today:


----------



## HiFiChris

trapok said:


> Received today:





ZN1 Copernicus?


----------



## Trapok

hifichris said:


> ZN1 Copernicus?


 

 KZ ZN1 yes, Copernicus i don't know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 All work fine( amped, not amped) with my smartphone(Elephone P8000 Chineese indeed)


----------



## HiFiChris

trapok said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > ZN1 Copernicus?
> ...




The ZN1's name is "Copernicus", so I learned from the description.


----------



## arpan

How is kz dt5? Any review about it?


----------



## joemama

arpan said:


> How is kz dt5? Any review about it?


 

 I bought a pair a while back, and they ended up in the back of my desk drawer. They just weren't my cup of tea. Very muddy and bloated bass and rolled off highs. On the other hand I always keep reaching for the ED10 because I love the sub-bass slam.


----------



## HiFiChris

EDSE = ED2 = EDR1?


----------



## Shawn71

joemama said:


> I bought a pair a while back, and they ended up in the back of my desk drawer. They just weren't my cup of tea. Very muddy and bloated bass and rolled off highs. On the other hand I always keep reaching for the ED10 because I love the sub-bass slam.




Hmm ok,its one of a long term sitter in my cart,reason being dual driver.......


----------



## bhazard

I can send you my DT5 for shipping costs if I still have it. Didn't like it. Too muddy.


----------



## Shawn71

bhazard said:


> I can send you my DT5 for shipping costs if I still have it. Didn't like it. Too muddy.




Hey ty for the offer man,I removed it fm the cart/buying list......duly noted.


----------



## Ecstasy

Does anyone here have the KZ ES?
  
 I bought them from @sujitsky here a few weeks ago. I can't hear any music unless I push the plug hard and hold it tight into the audio jack of my laptop/iPhone.


----------



## ayao

ecstasy said:


> Does anyone here have the KZ ES?
> 
> I bought them from @sujitsky here a few weeks ago. I can't hear any music unless I push the plug hard and hold it tight into the audio jack of my laptop/iPhone.


 
 I've got the ES (non-mic), and my plug works just as fine as all my other KZ IEMs. Sounds similar to the EDSE, but the treble is slightly less natural.


----------



## Ecstasy

ayao said:


> I've got the ES (non-mic), and my plug works just as fine as all my other KZ IEMs. Sounds similar to the EDSE, but the treble is slightly less natural.


 

 I also got the EDSE from @sujitsky and they work very well.
  
 Is it possible the KZ ES is faulty?


----------



## Shawn71

ecstasy said:


> Does anyone here have the KZ ES?
> 
> I bought them from @sujitsky
> here a few weeks ago. I can't hear any music unless I push the plug hard and hold it tight into the audio jack of my laptop/iPhone.




Try pressing the play/pause/call hangup button twice or thrice and see....else this is a common problem in Iems/HPs when the jack is bad internally and jack replacement is the cure if the cable connection at the Y split or at the earshells are intact.


----------



## Sunreeper

I need these to arrive


----------



## Ecstasy

shawn71 said:


> Try pressing the play/pause/call hangup button twice or thrice and see....else this is a common problem in Iems/HPs when the jack is bad internally and jack replacement is the cure if the cable connection at the Y split or at the earshells are intact.


 
  
 There's no pause/play/mic on these KZ ES I have.


----------



## Hisoundfi

ecstasy said:


> There's no pause/play/mic on these KZ ES I have.


faulty jack or short somewhere in the wire or plug


----------



## Shawn71

ecstasy said:


> There's no pause/play/mic on these KZ ES I have.




Hmm....judged so, coz the jack has 4 poles.


----------



## Ecstasy

shawn71 said:


> Hmm....judged so, coz the jack has 4 poles.


 
  
 Can you clarify?
  
 Just wanted to note that @sujitsky was beyond kind enough to refund me for these KZ ES. Excellent guy all around; much recommended and no fault on his end.


----------



## Shawn71

ecstasy said:


> Can you clarify?
> 
> Just wanted to note that @sujitsky
> was beyond kind enough to refund me for these KZ ES. Excellent guy all around; much recommended and no fault on his end.




Well the conventiinal 3.5mm jack has 3 poles/2 black rings and the single button remote version iems/headsets has 4 poles /3 rings 3.5mm jack for the play/pause/call hangup function.....so from the picture you had posted it has 4poles thats meant for single button remote.....


----------



## Ecstasy

shawn71 said:


> Well the conventiinal 3.5mm jack has 3 poles/2 black rings and the single button remote version iems/headsets has 4 poles /3 rings 3.5mm jack for the play/pause/call hangup function.....so from the picture you had posted it has 4poles thats meant for single button remote.....


 
  
 That's strange because both my KZ ES (above) and KZ ED have the 4 poles / 3 rings and have no play/pause/call function.


----------



## Shawn71

ecstasy said:


> That's strange because both my KZ ES (above) and KZ ED have the 4 poles / 3 rings and have no play/pause/call function.




Hope they aren't balanced 3.5mm jacks...... 

Really strange,may be someone who has thes same set of jacks cld shed some light.......


----------



## joemama

ecstasy said:


> Can you clarify?
> 
> Just wanted to note that @sujitsky was beyond kind enough to refund me for these KZ ES. Excellent guy all around; much recommended and no fault on his end.


 

 That's a shame about your ESs. The KZ ES was the "gateway" that got me back into the KZ collecting and/or hoarding mode after a several year hiatus. They're actually not bad, provided you use complys or other foams to tone down the treble.


----------



## B9Scrambler

shawn71 said:


> Hope they aren't balanced 3.5mm jacks......
> 
> Really strange,may be someone who has thes same set of jacks cld shed some light.......




My EDse has he same jack setup. Works fine. Maybe his was just wired incorrectly from the factory?

Another possible issue....there could be something stuck right at the very botton of the source's headphone jack, lint possibly, that is keeping the jack from connecting correctly. I had that issue with my old phone. Seems unlikely with a laptop, but worth checking.


----------



## 1clearhead

joemama said:


> That's a shame about your ESs. The KZ ES was the "gateway" that got me back into the KZ collecting and/or hoarding mode after a several year hiatus. They're actually not bad, provided you use complys or other foams to tone down the treble.


 

 +1


----------



## Ecstasy

b9scrambler said:


> Another possible issue....there could be something stuck right at the very botton of the source's headphone jack, lint possibly, that is keeping the jack from connecting correctly. I had that issue with my old phone. Seems unlikely with a laptop, but worth checking.


 
  
 Hmm, this seems unlikely as all my other IEMs/headphones work well on all my devices / laptop.
  
 Thanks for the tip though.


----------



## HiFiChris

hifichris said:


> EDSE = ED2 = EDR1?




Are those the same models with just a different name?


----------



## ayao

hifichris said:


> Are those the same models with just a different name?


 
 I bought the EDSE and ED2 from the same seller, and they sounded completely different to each other. I don't know if it's manufacturing inconsistency or design, but if you're planning to get one then just play it safe and get the EDSE.


----------



## lesp4ul

So, this is the result so far because of this forum, haven't recieved my ANV and ZN1 yet


----------



## HiFiChris

ayao said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > Are those the same models with just a different name?
> ...




I've already got the EDSE, that's why I was asking. Are the bodies of both IEMs identical? Because on the pictures, the EDSE, ED2 and the other one look identical. 

Does anybody else have experience with those three particular IEMs?


----------



## ayao

hifichris said:


> I've already got the EDSE, that's why I was asking. Are the bodies of both IEMs identical? Because on the pictures, the EDSE, ED2 and the other one look identical.
> 
> Does anybody else have experience with those three particular IEMs?


 
 Unfortunately I threw away the other one right after getting them because they sounded so bad (like the KZ GR with hole-less nozzles), but I remember the build was exactly the same, even the filter and red thing covering the mesh.


----------



## Ruben123

So I received my ANVs. Build is stunning, very good cable and 3.5mm jac. Impressive. Sound is not as warm (!) as ED9 brass or Havi, there's a treble peak that makes voices a little bit thin. Soundstage is great, bass is exactly where it needs to be but mids are a bit thin. They remember me about the MP8320, just more precise and less peaky overall and MUCH better build quality for only few $$ more.
  
 I asked the seller if it was the 2014 edition and he said yes. They have GK written on the earpieces and Knowledge Zenith on the Jack (which is straight).


----------



## CoiL

Ruben, certainly try different tips too. deeper insertion and smaller tips won`t help much though, they need mid-sized tips to sit just "before" ear-canal with very good seal. Recommend to try these tips with ANV:


coil said:


> I think I have found new best tips for my woodie ANV and idk atm If I`m willing to give up them for "tour" anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Ruben, certainly try different tips too. deeper insertion and smaller tips won`t help much though, they need mid-sized tips to sit just "before" ear-canal with very good seal. Recommend to try these tips with ANV:


 

 Lol ED10 tips alike. Might look at my tip collection then!


----------



## Ruben123

Listening to The Magic Flute (Die Zauberflote, Mozart) with wider bore tips and my eyes closed... it really happens in front of me. Fenomenal, more lifelike than Havi B3p1.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Ruben, certainly try different tips too. deeper insertion and smaller tips won`t help much though, they need mid-sized tips to sit just "before" ear-canal with very good seal. Recommend to try these tips with ANV:
> ...


 

 They are NOTHING like ED10 tips!


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> They are NOTHING like ED10 tips!


 

 Oh man, I thought so by their color and shape. Maybe Ill get a set then.


----------



## r2muchstuff

r2muchstuff said:


> The current KZ SE are not the same as they were back in Sept./Oct. of last year.  I ordered them form the then "KZ Official Store" and the current SEs from the current "KZ Official Store".
> 
> The older SEs do not have the red mesh capping the nozzle.  They are capped with a sliver mesh that is courser than the current red mesh.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


cadcam said:


> Interesting...I ordered mine from the Kz Official Flagship Store http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152 and received the red nozzle screens. Would like to here your impressions of the differences. It seems there is an ED2, EDSE & EDR1??? Are they the same?


 


 Sorry for taking so long to get to this.
 Now that I have, I spent too much time messing with these 
  
 On tap are two KZ ED Special Editions (EDSE) purchased September & October 2014 from the then Official Flagship Store on Ali Express and one purchased in July of this year from the current Official Flagship Store.  The old have the silver screen on the nozzle and the new have the red.
  
 I set this up as a blind (to me) test.  I used FiiO X5 > FiiO E12A (low gain no bass boost) >FiiO HS2 Switcher with all three SEs connected.
 I did not know which SE was on what out put #1-2-3.
 All three SEs have the same KZ red core large tips (see photo), which seem to be as good as I can do with the SEs.
  
 Test = play song and switch between SEs, repeat parts as needed and just listen to the whole tract and then switch etc.  Last night and again today.
 Music - Classic Rock, Blues, Folk, Jazz and Frank Sinatra
  
 Conclusion - One of the three is every so slightly different.  Had to work to detect it.  Turns out that one is just a micro level quieter.  Other than that they all sound the same to me, YMMV.
 Which one is quieter?             The new one.
 Why,      I do not know, manufacturing variance? red nozzle cap? other?
  
 Will other new ones be the same as this one?  For less than $12.00 US who cares?  At least both of the other older two appeared to be the same.
  
 Whew,
 r2


----------



## Podster

r2muchstuff said:


> Sorry for taking so long to get to this.
> Now that I have, I spent too much time messing with these
> 
> On tap are two KZ ED Special Editions (EDSE) purchased September & October 2014 from the then Official Flagship Store on Ali Express and one purchased in July of this year from the current Official Flagship Store.  The old have the silver screen on the nozzle and the new have the red.
> ...


 
 Yes, I believe they exhaust stock parts and then use the next available on a lot of models but one thing is for sure KZ must have 6 million linear feet of that cable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like you said for under $12 they make a several decent iem's


----------



## r2muchstuff

I forgot to say that the SE is the model that hooked me on KZs.
 And, I still enjoy them 
  
 r2


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> Yes, I believe they exhaust stock parts and then use the next available on a lot of models but one thing is for sure KZ must have 6 million linear feet of that cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 +1
  








 TWIN


----------



## r2muchstuff

Ok, I got it, these KZ ANV are sounding good.
 They just finished 105 hours of playing and now I have them attached to a JDS C5(v2) fed by a FiiO X1.
 I resisted buying these due to the shape, finally gave in.  So far I like the fit.
  
 r2


----------



## B9Scrambler

r2muchstuff said:


> Ok, I got it, these KZ ANV are sounding good.
> They just finished 105 hours of playing and now I have them attached to a JDS C5(v2) fed by a FiiO X1.
> I resisted buying these due to the shape, finally gave in.  So far I like the fit.
> 
> r2




Glad you're enjoying the ANV. They're easily the most underappreciated KZ imo.


----------



## Richsvt

I've got to stop reading this thread. I just bought the ED SE. Looking forward to seeing how they compare. It's a good thing these are cheap as woud be broke by now. Damn. My son took my ED10 and won't give them back, now I may need replace that as well. Where does it end. Oh the humanity...


----------



## Igor Eisberg

richsvt said:


> I've got to stop reading this thread. I just bought the ED SE. Looking forward to seeing how they compare. It's a good thing these are cheap as woud be broke by now. Damn. My son took my ED10 and won't give them back, now I may need replace that as well. Where does it end. Oh the humanity...


 

 It doesn't end XD
 Got 12 IEMs and 7 more on the way XD


----------



## arpan

You mean they not good for basshead ?


----------



## arpan

joemama said:


> I bought a pair a while back, and they ended up in the back of my desk drawer. They just weren't my cup of tea. Very muddy and bloated bass and rolled off highs. On the other hand I always keep reaching for the ED10 because I love the sub-bass slam.


You mean kz dt5 are not good for basshead?


----------



## joemama

arpan said:


> You mean kz dt5 are not good for basshead?


 

 I didn't care for them but that's just my opinion. That doesn't mean that you might not like them. At the price they're offered at ($9–15 USD), you're not really breaking the bank. That's the beauty of KZ.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hope that helps.


----------



## dwayniac

I like the DT5. I think it does mids and treble reasonalbly well for a dual driver iem considering that I have owned seven pairs. I do wish it had more bass. Then again,in terms of synergy,I like the DT5 better with my smartphone than my iBasso DX50. It tightens up the loose bass that my smartphone has.


----------



## Lohb

Long-shot but anyone using ED9 with HRT microStreamer ? How is the synergy ?
 UAPP + HRT MS + ED9 = amazing bang for the money hopefully. Really natural sounding DAC with great tonality given it is delta-sigma.


----------



## arpan

joemama said:


> I didn't care for them but that's just my opinion. That doesn't mean that you might not like them. At the price they're offered at ($9–15 USD), you're not really breaking the bank. That's the beauty of KZ. Hope that helps.


Well the me suggest iem for a basshead


----------



## joemama

arpan said:


> Well the me suggest iem for a basshead


 

 Sorry, I'm not a basshead. That's probably why I didn't care for the DT5s and why I didn't buy the ED8s (one of the few KZ IEMs I didn't buy). My suggestion is to buy both the DT5 and ED8 and see what you like.


----------



## Ruben123

So against all my expectations I dont think I will keep KZ ANVs. I gave up on the treble. Bob Dylan and also Michael Jackson's Unbreakable are unlistenable, too harsh trebles. I really have to EQ down the treble a few notches.
  
 It could be I received not the latest model of the ANVs, since the older one should have more treble and less bass. Either way, the ED9s mids and highs are way better (mids fuller and highs by far not that peaky). Have tried a lot of tips but that didnt make a difference, will look for my Havi's tips if they could do something.


----------



## Lohb

ruben123 said:


> Either way, the ED9s mids and highs are way better (mids fuller and highs by far not that peaky).


 
 Which barrel are you using out of interest, brass or gold ?


----------



## Ruben123

lohb said:


> Which barrel are you using out of interest, brass or gold ?


 
 Brass ones, golden are too bass heavy.


----------



## Ruben123

OK the ANVs are very impedance-dependent. Which came as a surprise as many other KZs sounded quite the same regardless of the output impedances Ive thrown them at. Playing them on a low-impedance output the highs are not as harsh and they have more bass for sure.
  
 Lesson learned: Dont couple your ANVs to a high impedance output, be it your PC, low quality smartphone or stereo receiver.
  
 EDIT
 The highs are still too harsh for me but they fortunately dont cause any headaches anymore.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 Don't give up on em yet. Get some small bore tips and add some material you can use as a filter.

I use large Sony hybrids and stuffed some cloth inside. It really cleans the treble up. Don't have to worry about any nasty treble spikes.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> @ruben123 Don't give up on em yet. Get some small bore tips and add some material you can use as a filter.
> 
> I use large Sony hybrids and stuffed some cloth inside. It really cleans the treble up. Don't have to worry about any nasty treble spikes.


 

 The Sony hybrids are clearly the better ones. Will try some cloth indeed. I like the cable and noise reduction (over the ED9) too much to get rid of them.


----------



## TwinACStacks

My ANV are by far the most balanced audiophile EQ'd KZ earphone. IMO.  MY problem with them personally is they are VERY uncomfortable in my ears. I don't even listen to my ED9. Even with the brass nozzles as they are WAY, WAY TOO BRIGHT. It makes them totally unlistenable to my ears.
  
 Everyone hears differently.
  
 JM2C
  








 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

twinacstacks said:


> My ANV are by far the most balanced audiophile EQ'd KZ earphone. IMO.  MY problem with them personally is they are VERY uncomfortable in my ears. I don't even listen to my ED9. Even with the brass nozzles as they are WAY, WAY TOO BRIGHT. It makes them totally unlistenable to my ears.
> 
> Everyone hears differently.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Twin, I will send you a picture soon on how to get your ED9s less bright. I think it is a design fault to sound that bright because after a small "fix" that some people need they are even a bit warm, midrangey.


----------



## TwinACStacks

ruben123 said:


> Hey Twin, I will send you a picture soon on how to get your ED9s less bright. I think it is a design fault to sound that bright because after a small "fix" that some people need they are even a bit warm, midrangey.


 





 Cool. Thanx Ruben.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> Hey Twin, I will send you a picture soon on how to get your ED9s less bright. I think it is a design fault to sound that bright because after a small "fix" that some people need they are even a bit warm, midrangey.


 
 Could we all get a look at the pic?


----------



## Ruben123

I can't upload the pic right now, see if I can do that later. Or ask twin if you'd like to see it soon


----------



## CoiL

Can`t You just describe what You did?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

What the fudge are these?!
  
 KZ-C3
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-PCS-KZ-C3-Noise-Cancelling-Professional-HiFi-Deep-Bass-Monitor-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Stereo-Music/32232141510.html
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-KZ-C3-professional-monitor-headphones-noise-reduction-in-ear-earphones-14-mm-dynamic-unit/1830262569.html
  
 KZ-CKW1000
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-deep-bass-earpods-stereo-headphones-Top-quality-cattle-kz-ckw1000-top-in-ear-earphones/1896156587.html
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/NEW-arrival-KZ-2013-BASS-earphones-for-MP3-player-MP5-MP4-Mobile-Phones-in-ear-sound/639551_1608005295.html
  
 Did I miss something? xD


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> What the fudge are these?!
> 
> KZ-C3
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-PCS-KZ-C3-Noise-Cancelling-Professional-HiFi-Deep-Bass-Monitor-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Stereo-Music/32232141510.html
> ...




Nope, those are old. The 1000 is another ANV variant....maybe it sounds closer to the ATH model it resembles? The C3 is also older. I've never heard impressions of either so I have no idea what they sound like.


----------



## CoiL

Don`t know about C3 (I think it wasn`t good IEM and had no fame in KZ family) but CKW1000 should be same as older/early version ANV.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

Hmm how about these? These are using exactly the same cable (and mic) KZ uses.
  
 KY-01 (Key Young)
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Amazing-3-5mm-Super-Bass-Clear-Audio-Earphones-with-Mic-DIY-HiFi-Stereo-In-Ear-Headphones/32472624247.html
 http://www.dhgate.com/product/ky-1-top-quality-super-bass-hifi-headphone/242487611.html


----------



## CoiL

This is KZ thread


----------



## chavez

They do look really nice tho. @igor


----------



## TwinACStacks

Igor, those CKW1000 are the same as the ANV. They are copies of the ATH earphone of the same designation. The GK's are the improved ones, those in your pics are the original KZ's
  
 I think. I do know people have discovered there are 2 distinct versions of these clones. I own the GK's they are awesome. What stops them from being my favorite KZ is that they are terribly uncomfortable in my ears---even after 5 minutes or so. They are by far the most audiophile oriented of the KZ's. IMHO
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/audio-technica-50th-anniversary-model-Inner-Ear-Headphone-ATH-CKW1000ANV-/260941204719?hash=item3cc14eccef
  
 Boy, am I glad I didn't pop 9 Hundies for the real deal, and not be able to wear them!!!
  








 TWIN


----------



## Chief Stringer

The ED-10s are starting to grow on me, id write mini review but have no other decent iems to compare them too, the mids of them have such good clarity for £5.50, bass is starting to sound a bit better ans the frequncies feel like their working as a team abit more now too


----------



## Sunreeper

So how long did shipping take for you guys. I live in the east coast of Canada and I've been waiting impatiently for 3 weeks now. I'm really excited and check the mail almost everyday lol


----------



## twister6

Got OMTP to CTIA adapter - ZN1 still doesn't work with ANY of my DAPs in a passive mode, only when power is on.
  
 Bottom line, with power on ZN1 works fine, with power off - it's a one trick pony only for latest smartphones and tablets.


----------



## HiFiChris

twister6

It probably works (try with and without the adapter) when you keep pressing the "answer/decline a call" button on the ZN1. 
Unfortunately I can't test it myself as my ZN1 hasn't arrived yet although I ordered it last month.


----------



## twister6

hifichris said:


> twister6
> 
> It probably works (try with and without the adapter) when you keep pressing the "answer/decline a call" button on the ZN1.
> Unfortunately I can't test it myself as my ZN1 hasn't arrived yet although I ordered it last month.




Nope, it doesn't work like that, only in passive headphones you can use this trick. Here, play/call button only activated when power is on. 

I'm that close to taking it apart and wiring "out" that active dual amp module  Basically, these headphones are great to use with your phone or a tablet when watching/streaming movies. You get an amazing cinematic experience of expanded staging and deep bass which you can adjust. But in my opinion, this active dongle is too bulky to use in every day portable listening on the go.


----------



## HiFiChris

Wait - so the microphone can also be used only when the amp module is turned on?


----------



## Trapok

twister6 said:


> Got OMTP to CTIA adapter - ZN1 still doesn't work with ANY of my DAPs in a passive mode, only when power is on.
> 
> Bottom line, with power on ZN1 works fine, with power off - it's a one trick pony only for latest smartphones and tablets.



May be yours is faulty, have you test it with a PC?
PSn mine switch has 3 pos
Up amped
Mid off
Down passive mode


----------



## Trapok

twister6 said:


> Nope, it doesn't work like that, only in passive headphones you can use this trick. Here, play/call button only activated when power is on.
> 
> I'm that close to taking it apart and wiring "out" that active dual amp module  Basically, these headphones are great to use with your phone or a tablet when watching/streaming movies. You get an amazing cinematic experience of expanded staging and deep bass which you can adjust. But in my opinion, this active dongle is too bulky to use in every day portable listening on the go.


 
I aggree with you, it is bulky to use, it is like you have a bluetooth gear with wire


----------



## Sopp

Here comes the KZ ZS1.


----------



## kaiteck

sopp said:


> Here comes the KZ ZS1.


 
 Where do you get the info? Oo


----------



## twister6

sopp said:


> Here comes the KZ ZS1.


 
  
 Are we talking about passive version of ZN1?!?


----------



## twister6

trapok said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Got OMTP to CTIA adapter - ZN1 still doesn't work with ANY of my DAPs in a passive mode, only when power is on.
> ...


 
  
 Are you pulling my leg? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Mine only has on/off slider switch, power on  - active, power off - passive (but ONLY with a smartphone or a tablet).
  
 Can you please take and post a picture of what yours look like?


----------



## Ruben123

That white flap/cover however you want to call it, needs to be flat against the inner side of the nozzle. Mine were not, so the covers didnt actually cover the holes. Push them with a tooth stick or a pen or something gently against the nozzle like you can see in the 1st picture. Highs will go down and mids go forward, if yours were not placed well.


----------



## Trapok

twister6 said:


> Are you pulling my leg?    Mine only has on/off slider switch, power on  - active, power off - passive (but ONLY with a smartphone or a tablet).
> 
> Can you please take and post a picture of what yours look like?



I am in my office atm, ll post pictures later

On the last position, no sound for me.
With my poor AMP it works more than perfectly(passive or active mode).


----------



## Podster

trapok said:


> I am in my office atm, ll post pictures later
> 
> On the last position, no sound for me.
> With my poor AMP it works more than perfectly(passive or active mode).


 
 So that switch is three clicks or positions on it? Just trying to figure this out because I love the way the ZN1 looks and by Alex's description I'm thinking I'm going to love their sound however the inline amp box turns me off


----------



## Trapok

podster said:


> So that switch is three clicks or positions on it? Just trying to figure this out because I love the way the ZN1 looks and by Alex's description I'm thinking I'm going to love their sound however the inline amp box turns me off


 

 I m not sure, may be it s a contact failure but if the switch is set to the mid, there is no sound on mine. It is better to wait the  passive version i think, Sound is not bad(one of the Best KZ in ear sounding i think)


----------



## twister6

podster said:


> trapok said:
> 
> 
> > I am in my office atm, ll post pictures later
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I'm a bit confused too.  Switch looks similar to mine, and the travel distance is very short to position it in the middle, unless if you try it hard.  The "off" might be just unintentionally positioned in the middle where the switch is in limbo.
  
 I know, I'm probably making too much of a big deal out of this passive vs active mode, splitting hairs here.  Either way, you have a rather large beefy dongle and thick wires.  The common wire going to the headphone plug is like electric cord thick.  So, I can't see it being used comfortably for a mobile use anyway.  The sound is fantastic for watching movies, though.  I watch Netflix and movies on my Note 4 in bed all the time.  And it works fine with my Note 4 in either active mode, or if forget to charge the battery - in passive mode.  Also, works great in active/passive with Nexus 7 HD but not the original Nexus 7 tablet (only works in active).  When I say doesn't work in passive, it sounds messed up with distortion/echo, etc, the same problem you get with some mp3/dap that don't support headphones with in-line remote where you have to press Play/Call button to fix it.  I got a bunch of different adapters to mitigate this problem, and it still doesn't work with any of my DAPs or even amps like C5 or E12A.
  
 Is that a show stopper?  Not really!!!  If you want a good in-ear with surround sound to use with your smartphone and tablet, especially to watch/stream movies and other media - these will do.  But if you want to use it with your DAP, you will be limited by a battery life, and could also have some artifact of double-amping (didn't try with LO yet).
  
 Considering ZN1 sounds great even in passive mode, I hope they will make one without active module.  Perhaps, that ZS1 is the answer.


----------



## armstrongline

Has anyone tried the KZ-LP3 yet? Care to share your impressions? Thanks.


----------



## lesp4ul

armstrongline said:


> Has anyone tried the KZ-LP3 yet? Care to share your impressions? Thanks.


 
 Me,
  
 Good looking, lightweight. About the sound: Bright signature, detail and soundstage is quite good. vocal is a bit upfront buat sometimes sibilance on high octave, i put an extra foam beneath the pads it helps a bit.
  
 Source : Fiio E10k & Hidizs AP100


----------



## CoiL

Pity ZS1 came little late, ordered ceramic & wood yinjw "IE800" already. But maybe next month.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Newest-Original-KZ-Headphones-KZ-ZS1-KZ-ZS1-Dual-Dynamic-High-Fidelity-Definition-Hifi-earphone/32477736456.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.Io3P1h&ws_ab_test=201526_1,201527_3_71_72_73_74_75,201409_2


----------



## HiFiChris

Are there any other Europeans that haven't received their ZN1 yet?


----------



## RedTwilight

sopp said:


> Here comes the KZ ZS1.


 
  
 IS THIS WHAT I THINK IT IS


----------



## CoiL

Yes it is! First KZ dual-dynamic (without excessive crap!).


----------



## EISENbricher

sopp said:


> Here comes the KZ ZS1.


 
 This is what I've been waiting for!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Yes it is! First KZ dual-dynamic (without excessive crap!).




*Cough* DT5 :3


----------



## CoiL

Hehe, somehow I totally missed DT5 being dual-driver 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Probably bc they aren`t so good and respected in KZ family?


----------



## Podster

I'm inclined to believe what Alex said, I don't think the middle location of that switch is an active position or shorted out. Seems it's amp on or amp off as Mr. Miyagi would say


----------



## Podster

chief stringer said:


> The ED-10s are starting to grow on me, id write mini review but have no other decent iems to compare them too, the mids of them have such good clarity for £5.50, bass is starting to sound a bit better ans the frequncies feel like their working as a team abit more now too


 

 For $10.00 to $12.00 what's not to grow on you! I give either ED9-10-11 or ATE's to all my friends that use iem/pods with their phones and everyone of them have come back to me going wow,wow, wow


----------



## dwayniac

coil said:


> Hehe, somehow I totally missed DT5 being dual-driver  Probably bc they aren`t so good and respected in KZ family?





What is there not to respect about the DT5? I think it covers it niche quite well in the lineup until its replacement is available.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> This is what I've been waiting for!!


 

 I'm sure for $35 bones I'll give these a try


----------



## TwinACStacks

ZS1?  Couldn't they have put some effort into the shell design? They are just as Ugly as the amped version.
  
 Lets wait and see how they sound. I've been spoiled by the Bettes.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> ZS1?  Couldn't they have put some effort into the shell design? They are just as Ugly as the amped version.
> 
> Lets wait and see how they sound. I've been spoiled by the Bettes.
> 
> ...


 

 Ouch! So harsh Twin, I kind of like them if they would just take that crasy ZS1 one off they would be stealthy military/swat team looking


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> Ouch! So harsh Twin, I kind of like them if they would just take that crasy ZS1 one off they would be stealthy military/swat team looking


 





 Sorry Podster. I didn't say I wouldn't BUY them. I was just hoping for a little more Panache' from KZ's first real (unamped) Twin Driver design.
  
 I will wait for the price drop and reviews. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That is unless this turns into a MUST HAVE. (they are all ready in my Ali shopping cart)
  








 TWIN


----------



## Rayyan

I'm looking for some decent headphones for under 15$ and on Aliexpress there are these kz ed (special edition), ed-2 and gr for under 10$ (on sale). Can you guys let me know which of these are suitable for listening EDM, dubstep, trap and trance and also about its sound isolation and reduction and if it is having a proper seal and if it is durable (not that I can question about this considering the price tag)?


----------



## TwinACStacks

rayyan said:


> I'm looking for some decent headphones for under 15$ and on Aliexpress there are these kz ed (special edition), ed-2 and gr for under 10$ (on sale). Can you guys let me know which of these are suitable for listening EDM, dubstep, trap and trance and also about its sound isolation and reduction and if it is having a proper seal and if it is durable (not that I can question about this considering the price tag)?


 





 For the Genres you list GO DIRECTLY to The Rock Zircons. This is what they EXCEL at.
  
 Here's the Thread:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/780859/rock-zircon-mula-iem-impressions-thread/135#post_11938067
  








 TWIN


----------



## Rayyan

twinacstacks said:


> For the Genres you list GO DIRECTLY to The Rock Zircons. This is what they EXCEL at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can you send me the link of that phones and how much do they cost?


----------



## TwinACStacks

rayyan said:


> Can you send me the link of that phones and how much do they cost?


 





 Right Here Rayan. They are also available on Amazon and TaoBao at a slightly higher cost:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rock-Zircon-stereo-earphone-Headset-In-Ear-handsfree-Headphones-3-5mm-Earbuds-for-iPhone-Samsung-with/32369328055.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.10.BXtgQ2&ws_ab_test=201526_5,201527_4_71_72_73_74_75,201409_2
  








 TWIN


----------



## Rayyan

twinacstacks said:


> Right Here Rayan. They are also available on Amazon and TaoBao at a slightly higher cost:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rock-Zircon-stereo-earphone-Headset-In-Ear-handsfree-Headphones-3-5mm-Earbuds-for-iPhone-Samsung-with/32369328055.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.10.BXtgQ2&ws_ab_test=201526_5,201527_4_71_72_73_74_75,201409_2
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks but now, my father (after seeing the lower than 10$ price tag) is saying that it is expensive . There is also an offer where I am getting Piston 3 for 9$ (50% off). Can you tell me which one will be better? The kz series or the piston 3?


----------



## Podster

rayyan said:


> Thanks but now, my father (after seeing the lower than 10$ price tag) is saying that it is expensive . There is also an offer where I am getting Piston 3 for 9$ (50% off). Can you tell me which one will be better? The kz series or the piston 3?


 

 He must have had a cow at the price of those in your Avatar
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I personally would go with ED9's and two filters but many on here may suggest another KZ option


----------



## Rayyan

podster said:


> He must have had a cow at the price of those in your Avatar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lol. What in the world is wrong with that massive frequency range !!!?? It is seriously lower and higher than what we can actually hear!!
 So how does the ED9's compare to the pistons 3?


----------



## TwinACStacks

In That Case I'd go with the KZ ATE It has quite a Bit of bottom end extension when needed, My personal Fave has always been the EDSE. The ED10's are Great but I do not think they are best suited to electronica.
  
 Your Dad would have a COW if he saw the +1000.00 Pricetags on custom fits.....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Rayyan

twinacstacks said:


> In That Case I'd go with the KZ ATE It has quite a Bit of bottom end extension when needed, My personal Fave has always been the EDSE. The ED10's are Great but I do not think they are best suited to electronica.
> 
> Your Dad would have a COW if he saw the +1000.00 Pricetags on custom fits.....
> 
> ...


 
 Why are you guys so fixated on to the cow thing??


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mooooo!!!!


----------



## joemama

b9scrambler said:


> Mooooo!!!!


 

 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Among the 3 mentioned IEMs I'd also go w/ the EDSE (Stay away from the GR
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Podster

rayyan said:


> Why are you guys so fixated on to the cow thing??


 

 Say, your not in India by chance are you? We mean no ill will towards COW's and to the best of my knowledge no COW was hurt during this thread exchange


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> Say, your not in India by chance are you? We mean no ill will towards COW's and to the best of my knowledge no COW was hurt during this thread exchange


 





 Maybe we need to start anudder thread...
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## satansmutt

twinacstacks said:


> Maybe we need to start anudder thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Twin don't milk it


----------



## Rayyan

podster said:


> Say, your not in India by chance are you? We mean no ill will towards COW's and to the best of my knowledge no COW was hurt during this thread exchange


 
 Lol... I'm not an Indian. It's just that it was a kind of joke which I think I did understand and also the opposite.


----------



## TwinACStacks

satansmutt said:


> Hey Twin don't milk it


 





 Now thats Funny right there I don't care who you are....
  
 Larry the Cable Guy
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> Now thats Funny right there I don't care who you are....
> 
> Larry the Cable Guy
> 
> ...


----------



## mochill

Zs1 and ed11 anyone


----------



## HiFiChris

I finally got the ZN1 today. Arrival took much longer than expected.
My first impression is actually quite good, but imo the amp module wouldn't have been necessary - it has some hiss and the bass adjustment bleeds too much into the midrange.


----------



## bhazard

The ZN1 does not work with the Moto X Pure. It pops and causes a weird electrical issue with the EQBox when plugged into the headphone jack, thus making it useless to me now. Works fine on the Zenfone 2.
  
 If someone wants it for a good price, PM me.


----------



## HiFiChris

Works great with my BlackBerry Q10. Even the button remote works in passive mode. I'll try how it works with my iPhone and DAPs tomorrow.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'm pretty pumped for the ZS1. I personally think it looks pretty good. The line of vents is a nice touch, ala Micro Ring.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I'm pretty pumped for the ZS1. I personally think it looks pretty good. The line of vents is a nice touch, ala Micro Ring.


 

 Yep, just jumped on a pair at AliEx


----------



## raybone0566

b9scrambler said:


> I'm pretty pumped for the ZS1. I personally think it looks pretty good. The line of vents is a nice touch, ala Micro Ring.


Kind of resembles zn1 without the amp


----------



## Lifted Andreas

bhazard said:


> Havi B3 professional tuned version. One of the most accurate balanced earphones I've heard, and it's only $40-50.




Wow pretty good price, wonder what they'd sound like with trance and electronic music.

I'm split between them and KZ ZS1 atm, wanna get then both but I think that would be overkill lol


----------



## Charliemotta

b9scrambler said:


> I'm pretty pumped for the ZS1. I personally think it looks pretty good. The line of vents is a nice touch, ala Micro Ring.


 
 I can't find a ZS1


----------



## Lifted Andreas

charliemotta said:


> I can't find a ZS1




Here - http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32477736456.html

I already added them to my cart and trying to convince myself to pull the trigger.


----------



## HiFiChris

Having paid only $25 for the new ZN1, I wouldn't go for the ZS1 at $28.

 BTW, I found another thing that I kind of dislike about the ZN1: the cable is quite short. :-/


----------



## Lifted Andreas

hifichris said:


> Having paid only $25 for the new ZN1, I wouldn't go for the ZS1 at $28.
> 
> 
> BTW, I found another thing that I kind of dislike about the ZN1: the cable is quite short. :-/




Really that bad?


----------



## vad0s

Which tips do you think are better ?
  
 1) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true&clk_rvr_id=893821896051&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
  
  
 2) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-6pcs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Tips-Earbuds-Headphone-Silicone-Eartips-Ear-Sleeve-Ear/32444252447.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.291.qrGt8r&ws_ab_test=201526_3,201527_4_71_72_73_74_75,201409_2
  - these look like the red tips included with ED9
  
  
 If you could also compare them with the whirlwind eartips, that'd be great.


----------



## HiFiChris

lifted andreas said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > Having paid only $25 for the new ZN1, I wouldn't go for the ZS1 at $28.
> ...




Haha, no, the sound is actually pretty good. I just meant that I personally wouldn't buy the amp-less version for more money than I've paid for the amped one. 
If the amp-less version sounds just like the amped one in passive mode, it is definitely worth the money. Though I have only listened to it for just a few minutes, I would say that it I worth even more.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

hifichris said:


> Haha, no, the sound is actually pretty good. I just meant that I personally wouldn't buy the amp-less version for more money than I've paid for the amped one.
> If the amp-less version sounds just like the amped one in passive mode, it is definitely worth the money. Though I have only listened to it for just a few minutes, I would say that it I worth even more.




OK thanks for the clarification.

I'm kinda split between them and the Havi B3. Never had a dual driver before


----------



## ajaxender

vad0s said:


> Which tips do you think are better ?
> 
> 1) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true&clk_rvr_id=893821896051&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
> 
> ...


 
  
 The first set, I think I have a white core variant (likely no difference besides color). They are very good, definitely buy them.
  
 The second set, you'll get variants of these (thin bore) with most IEMs. Buy them if you want more of them, but I wouldn't because I have too many already. 
  
 What set you'll actually use depends on the IEM and your preference.


----------



## slowpickr

lifted andreas said:


> Here - http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32477736456.html
> 
> I already added them to my cart and trying to convince myself to pull the trigger.


 
  
 Checked out the link.  I scrolled down and there is a section at the bottom of the page called "customers who viewed also viewed or bought".  Was expecting to see other KZ IEMs.  Nope, instead, I see several nice looking ladies modeling braziers and lingerie. Mochill must have hit this link several times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

rayyan said:


> Can you send me the link of that phones and how much do they cost?


 
 The guy is right, Zircon are perfect for your genres. Just don't go for KZ ED2 or KZ GR, you'll be disappointed.
 Here's a better seller, ships quickly and the communication is quick and smooth.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-Rock-Luxury-Zircon-Stereo-Headphones-Headset-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-For-IPhone/32471175916.html


----------



## ayao

hifichris said:


> Having paid only $25 for the new ZN1, I wouldn't go for the ZS1 at $28.


 
 I agree with this as well. If they can somehow reduce the price to like $20, then I'll buy one (as long as the L/R channels aren't reversed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## mochill

Yes I did


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Okay so I've nearly ordered the Zircons and Mule from the same seller on AliX. Let's see what the fuss is all about.


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> ZS1?  Couldn't they have put some effort into the shell design? They are just as Ugly as the amped version.
> 
> Lets wait and see how they sound. I've been spoiled by the Bettes.


 
 Subjective. I like the design (though nozzle seems littlebit short). Contrary, I find bettes and zircons ugly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


twinacstacks said:


> The ED10's are Great but I do not think they are best suited to electronica.


 
 Don`t agree. Imso, they are very good for EDM. ED9 with gold nozzles is also very good for EDM.
  
  
 Anyway, let me remind You that this is KZ thread and some of You take Your subjective opinion as "reference" for others and promote other gear in here... too much


----------



## HiFiChris

Imho the nozzles are definitely long enough and the ZN1 sits very comfy and securely. It is just like with the InEar StageDiver SD-2 - the nozzles only appear short but fit and seal are excellent. 

Besides, I might be one of the few people that actually like the design


----------



## EarTips

I like the zn1's sound as well.


----------



## RedTwilight

+1, quite like the sound and really like the fit.


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> * ATE
> stated impedance 16 Ohm
> measured impedance L - 19.7 Ohm, R - 19.6 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 37.2
> 
> ...


 
 Forgot to post new measurements about my modded ATE-b FF-mod with "IE800" cable:
 L - 17.7 Ohm, R - 17.9 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 34.4 Ohm.
  
 Also, measured impedance of ED10 with R35 cable:
 L - 16.8 Ohm, R - 17.1 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 32.2 Ohm
  
 Stock cable sucks. KZ, when do You start using better cables, both, better in comfort & impedance?


----------



## Trapok

eartips said:


> I like the zn1's sound as well.


+1


----------



## Chief Stringer

Ed9 & ate arrivied today, id say the ed9s will be getting the most use probaly, compared to the ed10s i prefer the mid-bass punch and find the treble far more pleasent and less grainy, the fit in my ears isnt great though

The ATEs i find it abit of a challenge putting in properly, but id say they sound pretty good, all these iems punch well above there weight no doubt.

KZ if your listening please make an iem with the sub bass and fit / design of the ed10, mid-bass, treble and soundstage of the ed9, and mids of the ate, thanks


----------



## Podster

hifichris said:


> Haha, no, the sound is actually pretty good. I just meant that I personally wouldn't buy the amp-less version for more money than I've paid for the amped one.
> If the amp-less version sounds just like the amped one in passive mode, it is definitely worth the money. Though I have only listened to it for just a few minutes, I would say that it I worth even more.


 

 I didn't mind paying a little more Chris to have a longer cable and that crazy amp box off the cable lead
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I would imagine an ampless one will sound better with an external amp driving passive ZS1 even if it's just a $26 Topping NX1
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may be wrong and I'm hoping my $54 (Topping NX1 and ZS1's) sound every bit as good as a pair of ZN1's, either way it's an $18 chance I'm willing to take


----------



## HiFiChris

podster said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > Haha, no, the sound is actually pretty good. I just meant that I personally wouldn't buy the amp-less version for more money than I've paid for the amped one.
> ...




I'd say an external amp (even the Topping, though I haven't head it myself yet) would definitely sound better - the in-line amp has just too much hiss - I mean hey, the ZN1 doesn't have any hiss in passive mode on sources that actually have more hiss with Balanced Armature IEMs than I'd like to, but hiss is clearly present with the in-line amp/EQ-Box. 

By the way: because others reported the ZN1 not to work with DAPs, yesterday, I tested with my BlackBerry Q10, iPhone 4, iBasso DX90, FiiO X3 (first gen), iPod Classic (latest gen), my laptop SanDisk Sansa Clip Zip and Clip +, and the ZN1 worked flawlessly in active and passive mode. I've gotta try some DACs and amps this evening. 

Though, channels are reversed. That's bothering when you know it. 
PS: to my surprise, on the PC, the amp module actually really amplified the signal, which could obviously be heard. With the other devices, it was about just as loud as the source itself. 
Does anybody have an explanation why the ZN1 only amplified the signal straight out of the PC and not with my DAPs?


----------



## RedTwilight

hifichris said:


> I'd say an external amp (even the Topping, though I haven't head it myself yet) would definitely sound better - the in-line amp has just too much hiss - I mean hey, the ZN1 doesn't have any hiss in passive mode on sources that actually have more hiss with Balanced Armature IEMs than I'd like to, but hiss is clearly present with the in-line amp/EQ-Box.
> 
> By the way: because others reported the ZN1 not to work with DAPs, yesterday, I tested with my BlackBerry Q10, iPhone 4, iBasso DX90, FiiO X3 (first gen), iPod Classic (latest gen), my laptop SanDisk Sansa Clip Zip and Clip +, and the ZN1 worked flawlessly in active and passive mode. I've gotta try some DACs and amps this evening.
> 
> ...


 
  
 When you say that it's as loud as the sources, did you mean using line out and with the zn1 volume maxed out? The volume on the ZN1 I have is definitely much softer with the amp turned on, to the point that even my phone gives louder volume in passive mode. I'm also getting really horrid tinny quality from the EQbox out of my X3 line out, and seeing how some of you guys are saying that it sounds good, I'm beginning to wonder if my unit has some issue.


----------



## HiFiChris

redtwilight said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say an external amp (even the Topping, though I haven't head it myself yet) would definitely sound better - the in-line amp has just too much hiss - I mean hey, the ZN1 doesn't have any hiss in passive mode on sources that actually have more hiss with Balanced Armature IEMs than I'd like to, but hiss is clearly present with the in-line amp/EQ-Box.
> ...




No, I am definitely not using the Line Out. The ZN1's EQ-Box's volume control is just not fine-grained enough. I use the headphone out.


----------



## robervaul

KZ HDS1 colors (for Iphone 5C 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 $10,00
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HDS1-Sport-Wired-fashion-Stereo-Headset-Headphones-Earphone-in-ear-Fone-For-Samsung-iPhone-LG/32481732179.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.49.6bQngV&ws_ab_test=201556_10,201527_2_71_72_73_74_75,201409_3


----------



## Podster

robervaul said:


> KZ HDS1 colors (for Iphone 5C
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Why not for $10 and free ship! Guess I'll go silver since my iPhone 6 is gray. This will make my 6th pair of KZ and mean 1/4 of my iem collection is KaZy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BaHaHaHaHa Dang thigs are like fishing lures and I'm just a big fat hungry fish


----------



## Igor Eisberg

robervaul said:


> KZ HDS1 colors (for Iphone 5C
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't buy from that seller. Here's a much better seller and ships very quickly.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html


----------



## Podster

igor eisberg said:


> I wouldn't buy from that seller. Here's a much better seller and ships very quickly.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html


 

 But she's a buck more
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OK, in all seriousness Igor is right. Teresa is one of the best AliEx sellers out of China


----------



## joemama

> Originally Posted by *Igor Eisberg*
> I wouldn't buy from that seller. Here's a much better seller and ships very quickly.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html


 
  


> But she's a buck more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


podster said:


> But she's a buck more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


igor eisberg said:


> I wouldn't buy from that seller. Here's a much better seller and ships very quickly.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html


 
  
 Didn't take much to convince me...just couldn't resist the pair in milky white


----------



## Podster

joemama said:


> Didn't take much to convince me...just couldn't resist the pair in milky white:etysmile:





Are we still talking headphones here


----------



## joemama

podster said:


> Are we still talking headphones here


 
 Yeah for now anyway
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kinda lost myself in the moment.


----------



## r2muchstuff

coil said:


> Forgot to post new measurements about my modded ATE-b FF-mod with "IE800" cable:
> L - 17.7 Ohm, R - 17.9 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 34.4 Ohm.
> 
> Also, measured impedance of ED10 with R35 cable:
> ...


 

 CoiL,
  
 Please explain what L>R is measuring?
 Which reading relates to the stated impedance?
  
 Thanks,
 r2


----------



## Rayyan

igor eisberg said:


> I wouldn't buy from that seller. Here's a much better seller and ships very quickly.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html


 
 About the zircons you mentioned earlier, I just mentioned the type of genres I listen to and since I have only listened to Sony and Philips earbuds rather than in-ear or on-ear headphones, anything which sounds good and has good comfort and good bass (not too much or too punchy so that it messes with the music) is OK for me. You can even figure out what I'm trying to say if I tell you that I really enjoyed Samsung in-ear headphones (which is widely available in local markets). Now coming back to the topic, can you recommend any headphones from KZ? Will the ATE version or this HDS1 will be good? Can you also recommend which buyer is good?


----------



## CADCAM

So after some extensive listening to the ED9, ATE & ED10 I've come to the conclusion that the ED9 has the most pleasing sound signature for me. I am also using the brass/dull nozzles with a warning that both pairs I received (I ordered a backup pair) had the stock paper filters lifted\curled up off the inside wall of the nozzle. I ended up taking mine to work and using my microscope and a gauge pin to properly seat or stick the filter in place. I also put a very small amount of air filter material in the nozzles of one of the pairs. It changes the sound just a bit seeming to defuse the highs a touch...I like it.
 I'm amazed at the level of detail that the ED9 can produce. Amazing cheap little IEM that I will be keeping as one of my go to IEM's. Great job Kz!
 Check out Ozric Tentacles ~ Strangeitude track 2...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 very nice for 12 bucks.
  
 ATE is also a great option but fit design is an issue for me and they are more laid back compaired to the ED9 but they have such a pleasing character to them... they are my next favorite.
  
 The ED10 is so impressive OOTB with impact and an overall impressive sound that rocks but as you listen more and more begin to begin to detect a slight raggedness in the highs that manifest itselves at times with certain material that I do not experience with either the ED9 or ATE.
  
 System is NAD C542 to a Beresford Bushmaster MKII to a Capella amp.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Ive just been listening to all 3 of them too, and although i've stated that i wasn't really happy with they bass, i've noticed the bass sounds much more impactful through my laptop then on my phone, as do the other iems. Listening to Wu Tang - Enter the 36 Chambers in FLAC on my laptop id rate them ED10, ED9, ATE, but with dance music i prefer the mid bass power of the ED9s
  
 Anyone else had any volume / sound quality (mostly bass) issues using them with a relatively cheap phone?


----------



## Lohb

chief stringer said:


> Anyone else had any volume / sound quality (mostly bass) issues using them with a relatively cheap phone?


 
 Yep, it is very noticeable. They scale well for such a cheap IEM.
 Best for me was Cayin C5 with a custom opamp. Separation/detail/sound-stage were waaaaaay beyond the price.


----------



## Bagas

Kz GR vs kz ED9
which is the best?


----------



## 1clearhead

bagas said:


> Kz GR vs kz ED9
> which is the best?


 

 Personally, if your going with tuning nozzle IEM's, go with the ED9's _-better fit, better looking, better sound, stylish, sexy,......well? You get what I mean_.


----------



## Bagas

1clearhead said:


> Personally, if your going with tuning nozzle IEM's, go with the ED9's _-better fit, better looking, better sound, stylish, sexy,......well? You get what I mean_.



How much?


----------



## joemama

bagas said:


> Kz GR vs kz ED9
> which is the best?


 

 ED9 hands down


----------



## pietro77

Ed9 definitely. Gr sounds weird.


----------



## halyosy

hallo guys 
  
 i wanna ask is there any review for knowledge ie 80? is this iem worth? because it's really like fake sennheiser ie80 

 is this iem good ? please link me any impressions i am looking for budget iem for listening to jpop jrock and anisong stuff any help guys?


----------



## Podster

+1 ED9's here


----------



## Chief Stringer

halyosy said:


> hallo guys
> 
> i wanna ask is there any review for knowledge ie 80? is this iem worth? because it's really like fake sennheiser ie80
> 
> ...




http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-IE80-high-fidelity-noise-isolating-ear-canal-phones-with-excellent-soundstage-retail-box-and/1543226469.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.2.8cIMCu&ws_ab_test=201556_3,201527_1_71_72_73_74_75,201409_4

Have some good reviews but also a dude said there werent "beats" quality lol, and they dont exactly set standards so yeah, there are positive reviews, but saying something is good without comparing it to something else or describing the sound signature is more or less meaningless, just my view


----------



## Ruben123

Is there anyone here finding the KZ ANV to have slightly recessed mids? The bass is strong and very nice, the trebles are tamed nicely when put some cloth in the tip (thanks to B9) but especially male vocals sound somewhat thin. They make me think about the MP8320; good bass and airy mids and trebles. The MPs had the same "prolem" with male vocals though, female vocals are good.
  
 Due to the bass response and the GK logo on the earphones Im quite sure I have the newest version (also asked the seller) so it could be a preference issue.


----------



## Hisoundfi

After being in contact with someone from KZ, it turns out that I received a bad production run of the ZN1. I'm looking forward to receiving a replacement. Hopefully my new pair will yield a better experience. Stay tuned
  
 KZ Rocks


----------



## Podster

Dang, hope the pair on the way to me was not from that run!


----------



## Hisoundfi

podster said:


> Dang, hope the pair on the way to me was not from that run!


I'll post impressions and differences once they arrive. Trust me, if you get a dud you will know


----------



## HiFiChris

hisoundfi said:


> After being in contact with someone from KZ, it turns out that I received a bad production run of the ZN1. I'm looking forward to receiving a replacement. Hopefully my new pair will yield a better experience. Stay tuned
> 
> KZ Rocks




What exact issues did/does yours have?


----------



## Hisoundfi

hifichris said:


> What exact issues did/does yours have?


 
 Lots of EMI, a cable that shorts out, and problems getting the device to charge or power up.
  
 It was a complete dud. Almost seemed like an engineer's sample that wasn't ready for release.


----------



## raybone0566

hisoundfi said:


> Lots of EMI, a cable that shorts out, and problems getting the device to charge or power up.
> 
> It was a complete dud. Almost seemed like an engineer's sample that wasn't ready for release.


You just described what mine does. I removed the amp and made regular earphones. They rock now


----------



## twister6

raybone0566 said:


> hisoundfi said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of EMI, a cable that shorts out, and problems getting the device to charge or power up.
> ...


 
  
 Please tell me you took some DIY pictures? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I assume it was easy to open it up, de-solder the wires connected to the amp, and re-connect wires?  Is it easy enough to reverse the connection back?  If I find a free minute, definitely doing that, or just wait until ZS1 is released


----------



## Trapok

hisoundfi said:


> After being in contact with someone from KZ, it turns out that I received a bad production run of the ZN1. I'm looking forward to receiving a replacement. Hopefully my new pair will yield a better experience. Stay tuned
> 
> KZ Rocks


 

 Hope you ll get the same batch run as mine, for me it was OK for everything


----------



## Podster

twister6 said:


> Please tell me you took some DIY pictures?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Funny that you mention the release of the ZS1 Alex because I found them on AliEx and hit the cart/buy now and then get confirmation that I ordered the ZN1 and the seller said I made a mistake but then I sent him my photo of the screenshot I took
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is the second time I've gone through the purchasing steps for one product on Ali and gotten a different item
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Was not going to break the bank and trying to deal with these sellers is like not worth the back and forth so I just said no biggie and I'll have an amped pair and hopefully after more sellers post (or they are officially released) I'll just get the ZS1's unless I don't like the passive sound of the soon to arrive ZN1's!


----------



## twister6

podster said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Please tell me you took some DIY pictures?
> ...


 
  
 To be honest, I'm a bit confused with ZS1 release date.  While talking to KZ rep, I got a feeling it's not released officially, but you can already find all these listings on AE.  Maybe that explains why they are playing dumb by shipping you ZN1 while you ordered ZS1, simply because ZS1 is not available yet.
  
 Anybody hear otherwise?


----------



## Trapok

twister6 said:


> To be honest, I'm a bit confused with ZS1 release date.  While talking to KZ rep, I got a feeling it's not released officially, but you can already find all these listings on AE.  Maybe that explains why they are playing dumb by shipping you ZN1 while you ordered ZS1, simply because ZS1 is not available yet.
> 
> Anybody hear otherwise?


 
 I talked with the seller in this store(www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606) and she told me that she has the KZ ZS1, but not yet the time to put it in his store.


----------



## CADCAM

Went through all my Kz's ATE, ED9, ED10, EDse and CM9. Decided to relegate the EDse to the gym bag as they sounded good at the house but not up to ATE\ED9 levels. Anyway used them at the gym today with my original Sansa Clip and man did they sound good...they may have sounded better straight out of the Clip than my IEM setup! At any rate they thrashed my usual gym earphones. Maybe I should try the other Kz's with a cheap source...


----------



## Hisoundfi

cadcam said:


> Went through all my Kz's ATE, ED9, ED10, EDse and CM9. Decided to relegate the EDse to the gym bag as they sounded good at the house but not up to ATE\ED9 levels. Anyway used them at the gym today with my original Sansa Clip and man did they sound good...they may have sounded better straight out of the Clip than my IEM setup! At any rate they thrashed my usual gym earphones. Maybe I should try the other Kz's with a cheap source...


The sansas are great with IEMs, I love my rockboxed Clip Zip. My parametric eq and sound settings can make just about every IEM I have sound fabulous


----------



## RedTwilight

trapok said:


> Hope you ll get the same batch run as mine, for me it was OK for everything


 
  
 How do you find the sound with the eqbox on and off? Got 1 for a friend but we're not really sure if it's working properly.


----------



## mebaali

Received my KZ R1 this morning.
  
 OOTB impressions (after 1 hour or so listening) with stock tips (through One Plus One using HibyMusic app with 40% system volume + no EQ), these sound warm, smooth and laid-back to the core. At the moment, Mid-bass is a bit more prominent over all other frequencies, highs are rolled off, vocals appears to be recessed. Build quality is top notch and the driver/body footprint is pretty small making the fit into my ear canals so perfect (provides great isolation). All this for less than 2 US$, is just amazing.
  
 In a nutshell, R1s sounds (to my ears) like a poor man's ATE (albeit few notches below in the department of detail retrieval and clarity of the ATEs). Wish/Hope the overbearing Mid-Bass settles down with more usage. BTW, I will be using these mainly as my sleep-time phones.
  
 Albums listened to: Playlist with mix of songs from Ilaiyaraja's How to Name It, Yanni's Live at the Acropolis, Phosphorescent's Muchacho (all 320 kbps MP3s)


----------



## TwinACStacks

And here I thought KZ's _*were*_ poor man's earphones....
  








 TWIN


----------



## kaiteck

mebaali said:


> Received my KZ R1 this morning.
> 
> OOTB impressions (after 1 hour or so listening) with stock tips (through One Plus One using HibyMusic app with 40% system volume + no EQ), these sound warm, smooth and laid-back to the core. At the moment, Mid-bass is a bit more prominent over all other frequencies, highs are rolled off, vocals appears to be recessed. Build quality is top notch and the driver/body footprint is pretty small making the fit into my ear canals so perfect (provides great isolation). All this for less than 2 US$, is just amazing.
> 
> ...


 
 Doesn't seem like a good idea to buy KZ R1


----------



## mebaali

kaiteck said:


> Doesn't seem like a good idea to buy KZ R1


 

 Totally depends on your sound preference and need for such low priced IEMs.
  
 In my case, it has got great fit for my ears along with not too troublesome sound signature (i am kinda treble sensitive) for use as a sleep-time earphones. For US2$ that i had paid for these (shipped from China to India), i can't ask for more.


----------



## Charliemotta

mebaali said:


> Totally depends on your sound preference and need for such low priced IEMs.
> 
> In my case, it has got great fit for my ears along with not too troublesome sound signature (i am kinda treble sensitive) for use as a sleep-time earphones. For US2$ that i had paid for these (shipped from China to India), i can't ask for more.


 
 I couldn't remember cause it's been a year or so since I used them .  They are actually pretty good like Mebaali says IMO.


----------



## CoiL

Just a short subjective impression: KZ ATE-b FF-mod is superior to Yinjw "IE800" ceramic version


----------



## kaiteck

charliemotta said:


> I couldn't remember cause it's been a year or so since I used them .  They are actually pretty good like Mebaali says IMO.


 
 I get what you guys mean. But $2 earpiece is just too...


----------



## JamesBr

raybone0566 said:


> You just described what mine does. I removed the amp and made regular earphones. They rock now


 
  
 Good point! sucked, but had to be done!


----------



## gabrielossw9

Hey guys 
A time ago I came here and asked "what's the best IEM from KZ" 
And I bought KZ EDSE/ED2
But now it's breaking (cable) and the right side is not totally OK... 

Now I need a new earphone to use at the gym (preferable with control next/back) 

My considerations about ED2/EDSE,good for vocals but the bass... 
Is okay in low volume levels,in high volume it's a ****,totally distorted 

I want a earphone with a good and CLEAR bass 

I've looking for KZ ate,ED9 and ED10

What's the best within these features (clear bass,and good with vocals) 

I like electronic music,rock and pop 

30 seconds to Mars,avicii(I love this) ,slipknot,ac/dc,David guetta,green day,Calvin Harris,panic! At the Disco...


----------



## Hisoundfi

gabrielossw9 said:


> Hey guys
> A time ago I came here and asked "what's the best IEM from KZ"
> And I bought KZ EDSE/ED2
> But now it's breaking (cable) and the right side is not totally OK...
> ...


ED9 all the way, with brass filters. 

It's exactly what you're looking for IMHO


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> ED9 all the way, with brass filters.
> 
> It's exactly what you're looking for IMHO


 

 I agree with that based on his taste and the fact he'll have the filter option


----------



## gabrielossw9

hisoundfi said:


> ED9 all the way, with brass filters.
> 
> It's exactly what you're looking for IMHO



Do you know some aliexpress seller,which send with original box? 

Thanks


----------



## Podster

gabrielossw9 said:


> Do you know some aliexpress seller,which send with original box?
> 
> Thanks


 

 I had good luck with Jacky Li and Tuna
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Obviously ordered more than one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tuna got them stateside fast and they came in the Shield cases.


----------



## stephanNL

Today I received my pair of KZ ED10 from Banggood but they didn't come with the transparent/blue tips. Is this normal these days or have I bought fakes?


----------



## TwinACStacks

The only question I would ask is WHY would somebody Fake an $8.24 pair of earphones?
  








 TWIN


----------



## stephanNL

twinacstacks said:


> The only question I would ask is WHY would somebody Fake an $8.24 pair of earphones?
> 
> TWIN



No idea. Was just surprised those transparent tips weren't included.


----------



## Chief Stringer

hisoundfi said:


> ED9 all the way, with brass filters.
> 
> It's exactly what you're looking for IMHO




Out of those three im gonna forward this comment and say the ed9s are proably the way to go, ed10 might be superior from a good souce for that music (maybe) but if your in the gym listening on a phone or something ed9 is probaly the best option, its well rounded, id recommend the ate but they seem abit quiet from my phone, a decent dap might be a different story though


----------



## ajaxender

I would say ED10 if a lot of mobility is involved - regardless of sound preference. I don't tend to like talking about things I don't own, but it seems pretty clear from the designs that the ED9 will not fit as snugly. If your exercise involves running, jumping, or other activities involving intense movements or impacts, ED10 is ideal - in fact its now my iem of choice for certain exercise days. But if not, I'd defer to those who have both and recommend the ED9.


----------



## Lohb

chief stringer said:


> Out of those three im gonna forward this comment and say the ed9s are proably the way to go, ed10 might be superior from a good souce for that music (maybe) but if your in the gym listening on a phone or something ed9 is probaly the best option, its well rounded, id recommend the ate but they seem abit quiet from my phone, a decent dap might be a different story though


 

 I could not get a seal on the ED9s for exercise which is a pity. Walking they are fine but hitting the gym, swimming pool ears, so I'm trying to see if Rock Zircon will work for the gym. More low-end as well on Zircon, which I need for exercise. ED10 do sit in nice, but I find the treble too bright and mids sucked out, but no surprise given they are V-shaped.


----------



## Chief Stringer

I can get a seal with the ed9s but not a great one, its worth noting for alot of people they may not have the greatest fit, and they were abit bigger than i anticipated when i first seen them too, ed10s have the best design / fit


----------



## eaglearrow

Dont know if this is posted already,
  
 KZ ZS1 for $18
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Original-Brand-Two-Unit-Driver-Headphones-Gaming-Headset-Hifi-DJ-Headphone-With-Microphone-fone/32480997073.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.70.1bBome&ws_ab_test=201556_7,201527_2_71_72_73_74_75,0_0


----------



## Lohb

eaglearrow said:


> Dont know if this is posted already,
> 
> KZ ZS1 for $18
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Original-Brand-Two-Unit-Driver-Headphones-Gaming-Headset-Hifi-DJ-Headphone-With-Microphone-fone/32480997073.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.70.1bBome&ws_ab_test=201556_7,201527_2_71_72_73_74_75,0_0


 

 Nice find.


----------



## myemaildw

i got qkz x6 bass earphones for 5 euro and sound quality is impressive, it doesnt compete with fidue a73 but for like cup of coffe in starbucks you get very nice audio. build quality is good too. its nice


----------



## 1clearhead

Got the ED11's!
  
 Love the look, but can't figure out why they would call them ED11's instead of ED10G, because of their gold back plate, or something of that nature. They are the same as ED10's in everyway except their color. But, all-in-all they are great to have because of their different color scheme.


----------



## gabrielossw9

ajaxender said:


> I would say ED10 if a lot of mobility is involved - regardless of sound preference. I don't tend to like talking about things I don't own, but it seems pretty clear from the designs that the ED9 will not fit as snugly. If your exercise involves running, jumping, or other activities involving intense movements or impacts, ED10 is ideal - in fact its now my iem of choice for certain exercise days. But if not, I'd defer to those who have both and recommend the ED9.



Haha,I don't do intense and fast movements,I only workout (slow and hard) 
I don't do crossfit,I workout like a man should do, haha

Seriously,all I want is the best sound,the rest is optional 
If the earphone will totally fit on my ear is only a detail,like I said,I do slow movements and I don't run 

And I understand,kz ED9 is the best in sound quality,but it's big to use at the gym 
KZ ed10 is good,but no so clear than ed 9,but fits better in the ear than ed9
"perfect to use in the gym "

And guys,don't forget! I'll only use the earphones only for one hour at the gym,the other 11 hours of my day I'll probably use it walking in the street,bus or in home


----------



## ajaxender

gabrielossw9 said:


> Haha,I don't do intense and fast movements,I only workout (slow and hard)
> I don't do crossfit,I workout like a man should do, haha
> 
> Seriously,all I want is the best sound,the rest is optional
> ...


 
  
 Haha I'm not a fan in the slightest of crossfit. Half my working out is pure heavy lifting for strength and power. The rest is plyometric or fitness related, sometimes both, hence my liking of the ED10. 
  
 For lifting any IEM is fine, in my experience. So get what you think will sound nice. Or get both, its $20-$30 haha.


----------



## Lohb

gabrielossw9 said:


> Haha,I don't do intense and fast movements,I only workout (slow and hard)
> I don't do crossfit,I workout like a man should do, haha
> 
> Seriously,all I want is the best sound,the rest is optional
> ...


 

 I found the same, have to use use ED10 at gym but lacking the full lush range of ED9s. Did you try ear-hooks for the ED9s ?
 I personally could not get a seal for cardio unfortunately on ED9s after solving the barrels coming out every 5 minutes but you might be lucky.


----------



## Arvan

Just ordered the ATE.. the EDSE was quite a killer for ... 7 something USD but i could not keep them in my ears because of the long body and the weight so i gave them away.


----------



## eaglearrow

arvan said:


> Just ordered the ATE.. the EDSE was quite a killer for ... 7 something USD but i could not keep them in my ears because of the long body and the weight so i gave them away.


 

 ATE is very good for the price. Finding a right tip for them is a bit tedious, but once you are done.. they are pretty much insane VFM.


----------



## Arvan

eaglearrow said:


> ATE is very good for the price. Finding a right tip for them is a bit tedious, but once you are done.. they are pretty much insane VFM.




Sounds great. I have a huge amounts of tips in a box haha. Let's just hope I can find 2 that works well


----------



## gabrielossw9

lohb said:


> I found the same, have to use use ED10 at gym but lacking the full lush range of ED9s. Did you try ear-hooks for the ED9s ?
> I personally could not get a seal for cardio unfortunately on ED9s after solving the barrels coming out every 5 minutes but you might be lucky.



Where I can find these hooks? 
It should be perfect to the gym


----------



## Charliemotta

gabrielossw9 said:


> Where I can find these hooks?
> It should be perfect to the gym


----------



## Lohb

charliemotta said:


>


 

 ebay or aliexpress.
  
 As an example...
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331616174267


----------



## EarTips

gabrielossw9 said:


> Where I can find these hooks?
> It should be perfect to the gym


 
 IIrc, i got it free with kz ate.


----------



## HiFiChris

eartips said:


> gabrielossw9 said:
> 
> 
> > Where I can find these hooks?
> ...




Came with my ED9 and ZN1, didn't come with my EDSE and ATE. I guess it also depends on the seller.


----------



## EarTips

hifichris said:


> ... I guess it also depends on the seller.


 
 probably


----------



## Charliemotta

lohb said:


> ebay or aliexpress.
> 
> As an example...
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331616174267


 
 Thanks!


----------



## CADCAM

eaglearrow said:


> Dont know if this is posted already,
> 
> KZ ZS1 for $18
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Original-Brand-Two-Unit-Driver-Headphones-Gaming-Headset-Hifi-DJ-Headphone-With-Microphone-fone/32480997073.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.70.1bBome&ws_ab_test=201556_7,201527_2_71_72_73_74_75,0_0


 
  
 Hey guys I have the ED9, ED10, ED ATE & EDse, also have the Zircon & Mula on the way. Is the ZS1 worth it? I've also heard that they are not officially released so are these preproduction samples or something? Last thing I want is another IEM that gets relegated to the back of the IEM draw...


----------



## kaiteck

Are you guys sure there's kz zs1? I cant find it in kz official taobao store D:


----------



## raybone0566

kaiteck said:


> Are you guys sure there's kz zs1? I cant find it in kz official taobao store D:


Don't think it's officially released yet. I've ordered from a seller who's still hasn't shipped yet.


----------



## Lohb

Can anyone give me a lead on a pair of IEM's sub-$150 that have the detail and tonality/mids/treble there but not dominant of gold nozzle ED9s with deeply textured sub-bass/bass ?


----------



## myemaildw

lohb said:


> Can anyone give me a lead on a pair of IEM's sub-$150 that have the detail and tonality/mids/treble there but not dominant of gold nozzle ED9s with deeply textured sub-bass/bass ?




could be dunu 1k


----------



## vad0s

So, I had a little accident with my ED10s today. Found them like that after taking them out of my ears. Any ideas how to fix it to prevent damaging the cables inside the earphone, but not changing their sound? 
  
 Hope, you won't get as unlucky as me


----------



## eaglearrow

lohb said:


> Can anyone give me a lead on a pair of IEM's sub-$150 that have the detail and tonality/mids/treble there but not dominant of gold nozzle ED9s with deeply textured sub-bass/bass ?


 
 You might wanna look into Fidue A73 (i dont own one). Pls go through the reviews. Heard they are epic for the price (~$150).


----------



## HiFiChris

The A73 is an awesome IEM, but has got more bass than the ED9 with matte nozzles (but clearly less bass than with the gold nozzles).


----------



## earfonia

vad0s said:


> So, I had a little accident with my ED10s today. Found them like that after taking them out of my ears. Any ideas how to fix it to prevent damaging the cables inside the earphone, but not changing their sound?
> 
> Hope, you won't get as unlucky as me


 
  
 If you have the back cover, I think you can apply carefully some super glue on the back cover and carefully place it back to cover the ED10.


----------



## earfonia

eaglearrow said:


> Dont know if this is posted already,
> 
> KZ ZS1 for $18
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Original-Brand-Two-Unit-Driver-Headphones-Gaming-Headset-Hifi-DJ-Headphone-With-Microphone-fone/32480997073.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.70.1bBome&ws_ab_test=201556_7,201527_2_71_72_73_74_75,0_0


 
  
 Ordered one last week, otw.
 Tried ZN1, like the sound in passive mode, but dislike the amplifier module when switched on. Hopefully ZS1 will sound like ZN1 in passive mode.


----------



## HiFiChris

I just took a look inside of my ED9's nozzles: the white filters weren't flush with the walls. I took a pencil and realigned them, now they don't sound off anymore and I can finally understand why many people like them.
 Disadvantage: they don't sound as balanced anymore because there is now more bass.


----------



## Ruben123

hifichris said:


> I just took a look inside of my ED9's nozzles: the white filters weren't flush with the walls. I took a pencil and realigned them, now they don't sound off anymore and I can finally understand why many people like them.
> 
> Disadvantage: they don't sound as balanced anymore because there is now more bass.




This! Little less balanced yes, but the overall sound is much better. The vocals are so enormously good!


----------



## HiFiChris

ruben123 said:


> This! Little less balanced yes,_* but the overall sound is much better*_.


 

 Indeed. Before, I really thought something sounded off. Channel matching was fairly good, but something just didn't sound right.
 Though, I preferred the more balanced sound of the falsely applied filters, but overall sound is now clearly superior.


----------



## EISENbricher

vad0s said:


> So, I had a little accident with my ED10s today. Found them like that after taking them out of my ears. Any ideas how to fix it to prevent damaging the cables inside the earphone, but not changing their sound?
> 
> Hope, you won't get as unlucky as me


 
 Just stick backplate back with some superglue. Take care not to leave any air gap. Sound will remain identical.
  
 If your backplate is lost then remove backplate of other earpiece, using its border cut 2 nos of aluminium foil of exact same size and stick those back with superglue. Since having original backplate on one side and foil at another will result into imbalance I'd advise to use foil at both sides.


----------



## CoiL

> Originally Posted by *EISENbricher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Take care not to leave any air gap.


 
 No need to fill whole circle edge with superglue - air gap doesn`t affect sound. Chamber is vented anyway and I have tested open-back vs. closed - basically no difference in sound.


----------



## H20Fidelity

What are KZ ED2 like? Is ED2 considered worthy inside the 'KZ temple of greatness'?


----------



## Podster

raybone0566 said:


> Don't think it's officially released yet. I've ordered from a seller who's still hasn't shipped yet.


 
 Mine show to be shipped
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Status:
 The seller has shipped your order
 Reminder:
 In  45days 13hours 38minutes 18seconds  Purchase Protection will end.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 1. If you are satisfied with the items you have received, then you can click 'Confirm Goods Received'.
 2. If you have not received your items, or you are not satisfied with your items, you can click 'Open Dispute' before Purchase Protection deadline or Purchase will be automatically finalized.
 3. If you would like to extend your Purchase Protection you can contact the seller directly or click ' Request to extend Purchase Protection ' to ask for the seller's approval.

  Select AllProduct DetailsProduct StatusOptions  

 KZ-ZS1 Original Brand Two Unit Driver Headphones Gaming Headset Hifi DJ Headphone With Microphone fone de ouvido
  Properties: Color: With Microphone 
 (Jade Zhao)

   

Awaiting Receipt


----------



## raybone0566

podster said:


> Mine show to be shipped:wink_face:
> 
> 
> Status:
> ...


That's good news, I'll have to check my order again. As of last week still waiting


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> Got the ED11's!
> 
> Love the look, but can't figure out why they would call them ED11's instead of ED10G, because of their gold back plate, or something of that nature. They are the same as ED10's in everyway except their color. But, all-in-all they are great to have because of their different color scheme.


 

 Same here, outside of the Gun Metal color and gold backs they are ED10's!


----------



## vad0s

The problem is that I dont have a backplate. The foil seems to be too soft and can be damaged. Btw I dont think there is a big difference between the closed earphone and the opened one. Do you think, if I fill the empty space of opened earphone with glue only, it will change a sound?


----------



## Hisoundfi

vad0s said:


> The problem is that I dont have a backplate. The foil seems to be too soft and can be damaged. Btw I dont think there is a big difference between the closed earphone and the opened one. Do you think, if I fill the empty space of opened earphone with glue only, it will change a sound?


You can easily fix them for 8-9 dollars... 

Just order new ones


----------



## vad0s

I am going to try Rock Zircon, but I want to keep these IEMs also, just dont want to screw their sound by stupid mistake.


----------



## CoiL

vad0s said:


> The problem is that I dont have a backplate. The foil seems to be too soft and can be damaged. Btw I dont think there is a big difference between the closed earphone and the opened one. Do you think, if I fill the empty space of opened earphone with glue only, it will change a sound?


 

 Just cut some plastic circles from plastic bank/bus/shopping/telephone card and glue them with superglue. Might even look cooler than original depending on card design


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Just cut some plastic circles from plastic bank/bus/shopping/telephone card and glue them with superglue. Might even look cooler than original depending on card design


 

 It would be awesome to have a hole punch that size and you could have a plethora of choices for end caps


----------



## CoiL

Don`t want to promote other brands and IEM`s in this thread in any way, but wooden Yinjw`s might be slightly better choice over my favourite KZ IEM - ATE-b (in stock configuration). 
 Will give them more "burn-in" time and compare head-to-head with ATE-b FF-mod... they are great contenders and may even surpass latter but we`ll see soon...


----------



## CBF-

Wow, I've had these ED9's for 3 days and just now I realized the channels printed on the them were switched.


----------



## HiFiChris

cbf- said:


> Wow, I've had these ED9's for 3 days and just now I realized the channels printed on the them were switched.


 


 Grrrrrr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've gotta check my other KZ IEMs (EDSE, ATE, ED9) tomorrow to figure out whether they suffer from the same issue. All I know is that my ZN1 does.

 If they also do, I think I'll solder an adapter myself when I find the time to. Don't know if I've got spare sockets left anymore, though.

 Still waiting for my ED10 to arrive...


----------



## ayao

hifichris said:


> Grrrrrr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think CBF- only meant the L/R indicators were printed on the wrong sides.
 3 days isn't all that bad... it took me more than 3 days to realize the actual channels on my ZN1 were swapped, and that was only because I used them for CS:GO xD


----------



## 1clearhead

Has anyone here try the *KZ HDS1*? They are also referred as *KZ MINI* (not to be confused with KZ MICRO). They carry upto 6 different colors with 6mm dynamic speakers. They look really tempting!
  
 Here goes some picks.....




 I only have this link from the taobao website for KZ.....
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.ykjxAo&id=522569365805&cm_id=140105335569ed55e27b&abbucket=4&skuId=3110968747690


----------



## joemama

1clearhead said:


> Has anyone here try the *KZ HDS1*? They are also referred as *KZ MINI* (not to be confused with KZ MICRO). They carry upto 6 different colors with 6mm dynamic speakers. They look really tempting!
> 
> Here goes some picks.....
> 
> ...


 

 Ordered a pair in milk white a week or so ago. Waiting on them to arrive.


----------



## joemama

Got mine on AE. Here's the URL: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html


----------



## 1clearhead

joemama said:


> Ordered a pair in milk white a week or so ago. Waiting on them to arrive.


 

 Good to know.....I might order the silver one's this week.


----------



## eaglearrow

@CoiL i see you have modded your ATE. I am thinking of trying my ATE's Open back. Could you direct me as to how do i go along with opening the back covers? Do i need to blow hot air on them and pull them apart or something? I do not want to damage the covers as i might wanna replace them if i don't like the open back sound.
  
 Thanks


----------



## HiFiChris

ayao said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > I've gotta check my other KZ IEMs (EDSE, ATE, ED9) tomorrow to figure out whether they suffer from the same issue. All I know is that my ZN1 does.
> ...


 
  
 That is pretty much basically the same.


----------



## CoiL

eaglearrow said:


> @CoiL i see you have modded your ATE. I am thinking of trying my ATE's Open back. Could you direct me as to how do i go along with opening the back covers? Do i need to blow hot air on them and pull them apart or something? I do not want to damage the covers as i might wanna replace them if i don't like the open back sound.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Please check thread gallery and ilikeiem`s post with pictures. No need for anything hot.
  
 Btw, I think I prefer wooden Yinjw`s over ED10 and ED9, not sure yet if they best out ATE-b.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Please check thread gallery and ilikeiem`s post with pictures. No need for anything hot.
> 
> Btw, I think I prefer wooden Yinjw`s over ED10 and ED9, not sure yet if they best out ATE-b.


 
 CoiL could you give us a link to where you bought yours? 
 Yinjw wooden...


----------



## CoiL

I don`t like to post straight links in other IEM dedicated thread but will redirect You here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/18795#post_11973260
  
 I think they are about same lvl SQ as stock ATE-b... can`t do comparison atm because my last pair of stock ATE-b is with my friend who Idk when I will meet.
 But I think ATE-b FF-mod is still my favourite  - it has clearer/tighter bass and more neutral/balanced sound signature. Yinjw bass is more "boomy" and littlebit more elevated compared to FF-mod but not like basshead-elevated - still very enjoyable and natural and not fatiguing. Think this comparison as tube/ss hybrid vs. pure tube sound... something like that.


----------



## theuprising

Coil how do you compare the KZ iems to other budget iem's such as the Tenore and the T1e? I only have the ED9 and I only see modest amount of possible improvement for it. It sounds more lively with an amp but there is nothing in the world that could give it sub bass, it will drop off a cliff no matter what, so I'm surprised you believe in them so much that you make expensive mods for them.
  
 If someone modded the Tenore to not be a piece of crap that breaks in 4 months, we would have a perfect budget headphone.


----------



## B9Scrambler

theuprising said:


> .
> 
> If someone modded the Tenore to not be a piece of crap that breaks in 4 months, we would have a perfect budget headphone.




Cough *fxh30* Cough


----------



## peter123

theuprising said:


> Coil how do you compare the KZ iems to other budget iem's such as the Tenore and the T1e? I only have the ED9 and I only see modest amount of possible improvement for it. It sounds more lively with an amp but there is nothing in the world that could give it sub bass, it will drop off a cliff no matter what, so I'm surprised you believe in them so much that you make expensive mods for them.
> 
> *If someone modded the Tenore to not be a piece of crap that breaks in 4 months, we would have a perfect budget headphone.*




Not we, you 

Personal preference my friend......


----------



## Podster

peter123 said:


> Not we, you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Charliemotta

Sounds like somebody has Crap in their ears..


----------



## theuprising

Wow lots of tenore hate


----------



## ajaxender

To be fair, you brought it up


----------



## TwinACStacks

The Tenore is a pleasant little earphone, just don't go ripping it out of your ears by the wires.
  
 Good value for the money, and it kills a lot of pricier earphones.
  
 TIP: as in the case of the Tenores, I find when I have a questionable Standoff/ Wire connection at the body, a carefully placed drop of superglue at their interface will prevent any major problems. Just be careful not to let it run into the Body. Clear Silicone Sealant/glue will work as well.
  
 JMHO
  








 TWIN


----------



## ajaxender

Tenores have a nice signature, few would disagree. Also not as prone to immediate death as is joked about, I've dropped mine off my desk a couple of times, they're fine. I don't walk with them though. 
 But like all budget IEMs, they're not so exceptional that everyone will love them unconditionally. Thats the fun part of these threads, trying new ones to see what works best for you. For instance, I enjoy a more exciting sound for the most part, so FXH30 and ED10 suit me better.


----------



## CoiL

theuprising said:


> Coil how do you compare the KZ iems to other budget iem's such as the Tenore and the T1e? I only have the ED9 and I only see modest amount of possible improvement for it. It sounds more lively with an amp but there is nothing in the world that could give it sub bass, it will drop off a cliff no matter what, so I'm surprised you believe in them so much that you make expensive mods for them.
> 
> If someone modded the Tenore to not be a piece of crap that breaks in 4 months, we would have a perfect budget headphone.


 

 Don`t have Tenore or T1e. ED9 mod was only for beauty/comfort and no sound tuning was done because I couldn`t get any improvement on them.
 Best solution for ED9 was using brass nozzles with short "skirt" wide bore silicone tips (that leaves breathing hole clear when inserted in ear) + little amount of foam to remove excess brightness/harshness of highs.
 No sub-bass with ED9 ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even with gold nozzles? You must have different quality ED9 or You are bass-head if latter is true


----------



## Lohb

coil said:


> Don`t have Tenore or T1e. ED9 mod was only for beauty/comfort and no sound tuning was done because I couldn`t get any improvement on them.
> Best solution for ED9 was using brass nozzles with short "skirt" wide bore silicone tips (that leaves breathing hole clear when inserted in ear) + little amount of foam to remove excess brightness/harshness or highs. No sub-bass with ED9 ?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, that bass/sub-bass does come in especially with an amp.


----------



## duffy1234

guys what earphones can u recommend me for budget about 75€ and maybe like 2 low budget earphones for like 10€ each, what have the best sound ? i listen mostly hip hop and drum n bass (after that mostly everything), thank you for recommendations
 are the two budget earphones like kz ed9 and ate best in sound in terms of price ?


----------



## davi99

hello. my kz ed9 is broken. no sound from left side. i take it to electronics and he thought it was because of jack; he cut the jack and reassembled cords. Then he see problem is not from jack, but left side of earpiece. As you know, kz ed9 is closed metal design. So i cant open. Any ideas how i can open it, so i can stick cords and make it work? Please look the design of kz ed9 of your own, and give me idea, how i can open it?


----------



## CoiL

davi99, please use thread search tool and check thread gallery for opened ED9 pics - it is very easy to open!


----------



## theuprising

davi99 said:


> hello. my kz ed9 is broken. no sound from left side. i take it to electronics and he thought it was because of jack; he cut the jack and reassembled cords. Then he see problem is not from jack, but left side of earpiece. As you know, kz ed9 is closed metal design. So i cant open. Any ideas how i can open it, so i can stick cords and make it work? Please look the design of kz ed9 of your own, and give me idea, how i can open it?


 
 its like 5 bucks, get another one...
  
 @coil, yes my ED9 may be broken on one side. Not saying it doesn't have sub bass but that its rolled off, and EQ literally doesn't do anything in sub bass.


----------



## Trapok

davi99 said:


> hello. my kz ed9 is broken. no sound from left side. i take it to electronics and he thought it was because of jack; he cut the jack and reassembled cords. Then he see problem is not from jack, but left side of earpiece. As you know, kz ed9 is closed metal design. So i cant open. Any ideas how i can open it, so i can stick cords and make it work? Please look the design of kz ed9 of your own, and give me idea, how i can open it?


 

 Mine to is broken with no sound from left side, i open the rear but it is to hard to solder due to the small closed design.
 PS: i have already a replacement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but try to patch the broken one


----------



## davi99

trapok said:


> Mine to is broken with no sound from left side, i open the rear but it is to hard to solder due to the small closed design.
> PS: i have already a replacement
> 
> 
> ...


 
 my seller not agreed with replacement. and its 12 dollar which is 35 Lira and 30 days to arrive. I succesfully opened it but its really hard cuz small closed design. I will take this to electronic mall but i wonder how he will see where to solder cord. Anybody please open kz ed9 backplate, and tell me where is green cord should be solder? dont worry for backplate, it is mountable.


----------



## eaglearrow

davi99 said:


> my seller not agreed with replacement. and its 12 dollar which is 35 Lira and 30 days to arrive. I succesfully opened it but its really hard cuz small closed design. I will take this to electronic mall but i wonder how he will see where to solder cord. Anybody please open kz ed9 backplate, and tell me where is green cord should be solder? dont worry for backplate, it is mountable.


 
 Check this post. Hope u get what u need.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/3960#post_11630674


----------



## davi99

eaglearrow said:


> Check this post. Hope u get what u need.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/3960#post_11630674


 
 thanks. i pm'ed the image owner. i hope he will respond me soon.


----------



## CoiL

Hey KZ fans... I`m going to be away from this thread for some time probably because You know - I love to modify things. I found new favorite IEM+mod: http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/18840#post_11978882
  
 I have humble request to some of You - If some new KZ IEM`s similar to ATE-b sound signature come out but better SQ/resolution, then let me know, please! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Seeya around in threads!


----------



## FeedingNation

I just bought the KZ ED3, and is quite impressed with it so far, but have a problem with the tips slightly. Anyone can suggest a tip that would fit? Currently using RHA medium bi-flange


----------



## davi99

i went 10 electronic mall and one of them soldered cables succesfully. But sound is still not there. I recommend you to use your ed9 carefully. It's cable connections on earphone side is very weak.


----------



## pss395

Quick question. I've demoed and love the sound signature of the Havi B3 Pro 1. I'm kinda interested with the ATE the most, probably because of the cable up style. Does the ATE have the same sound signature, namely balance and wide soundstage, of the Havi?


----------



## lesp4ul

pss395 said:


> Quick question. I've demoed and love the sound signature of the Havi B3 Pro 1. I'm kinda interested with the ATE the most, probably because of the cable up style. Does the ATE have the same sound signature, namely balance and wide soundstage, of the Havi?




Bass on havi is bigger and deeper, also pro1 has a clearer vocal and highs. Soundstage is wider and more airy. Pro1 is way better than ate. But for the price, ate is much better than the money you spend.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## peter123

lesp4ul said:


> Bass on havi is bigger and deeper, also pro1 has a clearer vocal and highs. Soundstage is wider and more airy. Pro1 is way better than ate. But for the price, ate is much better than the money you spend.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk




+1, spot on!


----------



## joemama

pss395 said:


> Quick question. I've demoed and love the sound signature of the Havi B3 Pro 1. I'm kinda interested with the ATE the most, probably because of the cable up style. Does the ATE have the same sound signature, namely balance and wide soundstage, of the Havi?


 
  
 Get The Havi. Just keep in mind you might need an amp. I tried it with my Clip+ and ipod mini and neither sounded great until I added a NX1. OTOH the XDuoo X2 can pretty much drive it with ease and make it sing. I found the ATE to be pretty laid back and the highs were knda veiled.


----------



## theuprising

pss395 said:


> Quick question. I've demoed and love the sound signature of the Havi B3 Pro 1. I'm kinda interested with the ATE the most, probably because of the cable up style. Does the ATE have the same sound signature, namely balance and wide soundstage, of the Havi?


 

 Closest thing to the Havi is the ED9, and honestly, even they both have different enough sound signatures that it wouldn't be strange to have both. ED9 focuses more on mid bass more than havi's lower bass and has more lower treble presence, but overall has a faux-neutral signature similar to the Havi though everything sounds metallic and there's less isolation on the ED9 because to get that big airy sound, its heavily vented.
  
 So might as well get the Havi if you enjoy its signature because its outright unique among IEM's, it would be tough to find something else like it.


----------



## kaiteck

Not sure if it's just me... but did anyone here notice a difference when you use a better dac for kz ate?
  
 Initially was due to my pc headphone out jack not functioning,  so I replaced it with a $10 pcm2704 based usb dac and omg, I didn't expected it to sound better than if I use galaxy s3 phone out...


----------



## Ruben123

How is isolation ANV vs ATE ? Find the ANVs mids to be just a bit too recessed and ATE's mids should come out better I understood.


----------



## raybone0566

Received my ed11's yesterday. Detail is good, very clean sounding phone. Doesn't have the bass ed10 had but has just the right amount. Nice balance. Hats off to KZ


----------



## theuprising

raybone0566 said:


> Received my ed11's yesterday. Detail is good, very clean sounding phone. Doesn't have the bass ed10 had but has just the right amount. Nice balance. Hats off to KZ


 

 Cool, how does it compare to the rest of the likes of the ED9 which also could be described as such, if you have experience with it?


----------



## Carlsan

I received my ed. 11 last week as well. Can't compare it to the 9 or 10 as I don't have either.
 Quite impressed with it, I think it has more than plenty of bass, and overall nice highs as well. Sound to me is a bit V shaped but quite enjoyable.
 Grand slam for the price.


----------



## raybone0566

theuprising said:


> Cool, how does it compare to the rest of the likes of the ED9 which also could be described as such, if you have experience with it?


I've got both ed9 &10, it's just as good as ed10 imo, but ed9 is more detailed.


----------



## mebaali

Received ED10 this morning. OOTB with stock tips (especially with the blue core tips), had driver flex in both the sides. Tried tip rolling, found Sony MH1's Medium tips to give me better fit. With this tip, driver-flex is gone for the time being (hope it stays that way). Cable is rubbery/springy one (like ATEs). The overall build quality is pretty ok (mine had its paint worn off at some parts of the body, though).
  
 Sound Quality (with just over 4 hours of usage) - These sound to me like a repackaged EDSE. On many songs that I had tried so far, Treble appears to be bit too Metalic/Shouty/Grainy(?) for my liking. Bass quantity/quality and Mids seems pretty much similar to my EDSE. BTW, these are not as detailed as my ED9 Bronze filter and also doesn't seems to possess wider soundstage of ATEs. Reading from other users' impression on these, I hope mine is not a faulty unit. May be with more usage this sound signature may change to some extent (especially the troublesome treble part). 
  
 Sound gear used - Fiio X1 + NX1 combo (tried with both line out option as well as headphone out), OnePlus One (at 60% volume)
  
 Music tested - Alesso's Forever, Amy Winehouse's Frank, The Fray's Scar and Stories, David Guetta's Listen (all are in 256 kbps M4A format)


----------



## Nocturnalzzz (Jun 6, 2018)

-


----------



## Lohb

nocturnalzzz said:


> I recently received the rock brand IEMs as well, which impresses in certain ways(need more time to listen to them, Zircon has this wide spacious sound which is unique and is growing on me, but won't elaborate here) but as far as most music goes ED10(with SHE3590 large tips) is my current favorite.


 
 I have ED9, Zircon in the post and ED10.
 You may like ED9 with gold tips from what you have said. I'm looking forward to my ED9 / Zircon shoot-out. The cheap IEMs are great to experiment with and compare.
 Welcome to head-fi.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Looking at the Aliexpress website it now appears there are 2 completely different ANV being offered. The original which is an awesome earphone and an ANV that looks a lot like the EDSE with a Mic and Flat wire.
  
 Curious.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Looking at the Aliexpress website it now appears there are 2 completely different ANV being offered. The original which is an awesome earphone and an ANV that looks a lot like the EDSE with a Mic and Flat wire.
> 
> Curious.
> 
> TWIN




Oooo....link? I would love an ANV with Mic.


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Oooo....link? I would love an ANV with Mic.


 





 Done.
  
 Warning it's the NEW version:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ANV-Mobile-Phone-Earphones-Without-Microphone-Wire-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Headset-Earphones-High-Quality/32362132627.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.2.WaEPKR&ws_ab_test=201556_8,201527_4_71_72_73_74_75,201560_2
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

Hey guys the Official Kz Flagship Store has the Kz ZS1 for 18 bucks
  
  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Original-Brand-Two-Unit-Driver-Headphones-Gaming-Headset-Hifi-DJ-Headphone-With-Microphone-fone/32493992233.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.11.7iqQuX&ws_ab_test=201556_8,201527_3_71_72_73_74_75,201560_1
  
 Anyone think they are worth getting as it's been pretty quiet around here on them? Also anyone who has them are the channels reversed as I've read??? This would be a deal breaker for me...


----------



## CoiL

twinacstacks said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > Oooo....link? I would love an ANV with Mic.
> ...


 
 This is NOT KZ product.
  


lesp4ul said:


> pss395 said:
> 
> 
> > Quick question. I've demoed and love the sound signature of the Havi B3 Pro 1. I'm kinda interested with the ATE the most, probably because of the cable up style. Does the ATE have the same sound signature, namely balance and wide soundstage, of the Havi?
> ...


 
 Havi B3P1 need amp for sure! Without amp, for me, ATE is superior in overall naturality and signature, despite havis soundstage, clarity and transparency is better.


----------



## mebaali

Over 24 hours of usage (burn-in/break-in) has opened up my ED10 in a pretty nice way. Biggest difference to my ears has been the instrument separation and clarity. Bass seems to be getting tighter/punchier and even the hot treble I had felt OOTB seems to have subsided to an extent.
  
 Listening to Ilaiayraja's compositions from 80's (Tamil Soundtracks) on this is a pure bliss!


----------



## Chief Stringer

mebaali said:


> Over 24 hours of usage (burn-in/break-in) has opened up my ED10 in a pretty nice way. Biggest difference to my ears has been the instrument separation and clarity. Bass seems to be getting tighter/punchier and even the hot treble I had felt OOTB seems to have subsided to an extent.
> 
> Listening to Ilaiayraja's compositions from 80's (Tamil Soundtracks) on this is a pure bliss!




Mine seem to have improved too, i still have the kinda lower treble toned down and midbass turned up on my phone, but sound decent with no eq through my laptop

Also to anyone, are the zs1's the same as the passive zn1's? If so how do either of those compare to the ed9, ed10 or ate's? And hows the fit conpared to the ate's for most people?


----------



## Podster

chief stringer said:


> Mine seem to have improved too, i still have the kinda lower treble toned down and midbass turned up on my phone, but sound decent with no eq through my laptop
> 
> Also to anyone, are the zs1's the same as the passive zn1's? If so how do either of those compare to the ed9, ed10 or ate's? And hows the fit conpared to the ate's for most people?


 

 Would love to tell you that one Chief if they ever get here!


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> This is NOT KZ product.
> 
> Havi B3P1 need amp for sure! Without amp, for me, ATE is superior in overall naturality and signature, despite havis soundstage, clarity and transparency is better.


 

 +1.....was using my ATE's today, to and from work and they are very oooh-natural!


----------



## mebaali

@Chief Stringer -  OOTB, ED10's Treble (and even vocals) on some songs were too grainy+ shouty for my ears. But after some usage, i felt as if it has become somewhat less troublesome (may be brain-in). More and more I listen to ED10s, I find lots of similarities between this and my EDSE (except in ED10s, I find bass response to be lean yet slightly better in terms of accuracy/punchiness/tightness? + better instrument separation).
  
 Still, ATE is my favt KZ IEM but ED10 is no slouch either (got its own sound signature). It's starting to grow on me


----------



## davek

Hi guys!
  
 I own almost every KZ which are considered good (EDR1, ED3, ED9, ATE, ED10, ANV) among other good chinese earphones like the Rock Zircon, but I have to admit that KZ ANV (g.k. version, CKW1000ANV replica) is absolutely the best of all. I wonder how can it be so lightly recommended, since to my hearing it is easily better than ED10 or the Zircon, and it is impossible (for me at least) to go back to those above after spending some time with the ANV. Yes, it lacks a little in the low-end, but yet very natural sounding, has better soundstage than ATE (!) with non fatiguing treble and offers an absolutely clean, airy presentation. I made my research and it seems (Amazon reviews) that the KZ version shares the same characteristics in its sound as the AT CKW1000ANV, which comes to me as no surprise since I had a lot of open AT headphones. If I had to choose between all versus the ANV, I would easily choose ANV. Bought it like a month ago for 10 USD, and I consider this my best purchase ever.
  
 Ps: I'm fond of AT's sound in general


----------



## Trapok

chief stringer said:


> Mine seem to have improved too, i still have the kinda lower treble toned down and midbass turned up on my phone, but sound decent with no eq through my laptop
> 
> Also to anyone, are the zs1's the same as the passive zn1's? If so how do either of those compare to the ed9, ed10 or ate's? And hows the fit conpared to the ate's for most people?


 
 Fit is personal, I have a better fit with the ZN1 vs ATE


----------



## Ruben123

davek said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I own almost every KZ which are considered good (EDR1, ED3, ED9, ATE, ED10, ANV) among other good chinese earphones like the Rock Zircon, but I have to admit that KZ ANV (g.k. version, CKW1000ANV replica) is absolutely the best of all. I wonder how can it be so lightly recommended, since to my hearing it is easily better than ED10 or the Zircon, and it is impossible (for me at least) to go back to those above after spending some time with the ANV. Yes, it lacks a little in the low-end, but yet very natural sounding, has better soundstage than ATE (!) with non fatiguing treble and offers an absolutely clean, airy presentation. I made my research and it seems (Amazon reviews) that the KZ version shares the same characteristics in its sound as the AT CKW1000ANV, which comes to me as no surprise since I had a lot of open AT headphones. If I had to choose between all versus the ANV, I would easily choose ANV. Bought it like a month ago for 10 USD, and I consider this my best purchase ever.
> 
> Ps: I'm fond of AT's sound in general




Without mods I find the treble to be way too hot and mids too laid back to be natural. If your hearing is worse because of your age you might not notice but I do  
Their fit is very good though.


----------



## davek

ruben123 said:


> Without mods I find the treble to be way too hot and mids too laid back to be natural. If your hearing is worse because of your age you might not notice but I do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nothing wrong with my hearing, nor with my age (I hope so!  I am 31 BTW. Yes, the upper mids/lower treble is forward/upfront, but I wouldn't call them hot, you should try ATH-W1000X, that has some hot troble for comparison  Highs are smooth and detailed, and since they are right in front of you, you may find the mids to be recessed. But I don't think this is the case, they are fine where they are with the lower frequencies, since this "multi layer" sound is what makes it's soundstage awesome and the sound to be truly enjoyable for anything acoustic/atmospheric. Yes, the ATE shares some nice depth too but it can be too dull in its closed form factor (tried, but I couldn't open it up - and let's be honest, that way it would be something like the K1000, not a headphone/earphone, but some earspeaker). If you are familiar with the "AT sound", they do this all the time, bring something closer, push something a little back, and therefore you have sense of space, which most classic earphones lack. For me, ED10, Zircon and all the others sound much more artifical due to the lack of ease, smooth treble and space the ANV has.
  
 But what mods you are talking about? I saw some wooden housing but nothing else.


----------



## Chief Stringer

podster said:


> Would love to tell you that one Chief if they ever get here!


 
  
 Lol when did you order them? my ate's and ed9s took 2 months too come i know the feeling


1clearhead said:


> +1.....was using my ATE's today, to and from work and they are very oooh-natural!


 
  
 Im using them atm and ive gotta say im starting to love them, relaxing sound, but engaging enough to keep me interested, so smooth, you noticed any kinda of burn in changes? would be awesome if their got even better


mebaali said:


> @Chief Stringer -  OOTB, ED10's Treble (and even vocals) on some songs were too grainy+ shouty for my ears. But after some usage, i felt as if it has become somewhat less troublesome (may be brain-in). More and more I listen to ED10s, I find lots of similarities between this and my EDSE (except in ED10s, I find bass response to be lean yet slightly better in terms of accuracy/punchiness/tightness? + better instrument separation).
> 
> Still, ATE is my favt KZ IEM but ED10 is no slouch either (got its own sound signature). It's starting to grow on me


 
  
 Yeah im starting to love the ATE, but at work through my phone a slightly eq'd ed10 takes it, they isolate fairly well, are solid, are not awkward to fit like the ATEs, and mine are my only ones with the mic / button, which i find extremely useful at work


----------



## Podster

chief stringer said:


> Lol when did you order them? my ate's and ed9s took 2 months too come i know the feeling


 
 Week and half ago, I usually get AliEx orders in about 10 to 12 days here in the US. My buddies to the North tell some horrible stories though!


----------



## CoiL

davek said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> I wonder how can it be so lightly recommended, since to my hearing it is easily better than ED10 or the Zircon, and it is impossible (for me at least) to go back to those above after spending some time with the ANV.


 
 Answer by yourself:


> Yes, it lacks a little in the low-end, but yet very natural sounding, has better soundstage than ATE (!) with non fatiguing treble and offers an absolutely clean, airy presentation.


 
 Many here prefer rather V-shaped signature with noticeable bass not flat/neutral signature like ANV has. While I`m not in favor clearly V-shaped or dead-neutral sound - I can understand why they are not so favorable here. Like You said, they lack littlebit in low-end (mid-bass and little low-mids imo) which don`t give so natural instrument/voice sounds (contrabass, low-sax, deep male vocals etc.), imo. I also really like the soundstage and "multi-layer" sound they have... but... just that low-end "problem" placed them tad under ATE for me. ATE-b might be little too smooth but it is still very open and airy sounding with good "out of the headstage" imaging and it has what ANV lacks.
 What tip are You using? I found best sound with these medium sized tips: http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/30#post_11893731
  
 Btw, WOM-mod is basically combination of ANV and ATE - The Sound Signature I was looking from cheap IEM`s quite some time


----------



## sgl54

pss395 said:


> Quick question. I've demoed and love the sound signature of the Havi B3 Pro 1. I'm kinda interested with the ATE the most, probably because of the cable up style. Does the ATE have the same sound signature, namely balance and wide soundstage, of the Havi?



Fit of the ate is similar to the Havi but the Zn1 is much closer in sound signature. The Zn1's with the awkward position and size of amp are difficult to comfortably wear. While I like the sound signature of my Ed9's and the comfort of and unfatiging sound of Ate's they, for me fall short of the Zn1's


----------



## RedTwilight

sgl54 said:


> Fit of the ate is similar to the Havi but the Zn1 is much closer in sound signature. The Zn1's with the awkward position and size of amp are difficult to comfortably wear. While I like the sound signature of my Ed9's and the comfort of and unfatiging sound of Ate's they, for me fall short of the Zn1's


 
  
 +1 on ZN1 fit and sound. They're one of the most comfy iems I've ever worn, but the eqbox is really just in a weird place. 
  
 I find that Havi is marginally more comfortable then the ATE due to slimmer nozzles on the Havi. The body is larger however, but ergonomically shaped so unless you have smaller than average ears, they should sit fine.


----------



## Ruben123

sgl54 said:


> Fit of the ate is similar to the Havi but the *Zn1 is much closer in sound signature*. The Zn1's with the awkward position and size of amp are difficult to comfortably wear. While I like the sound signature of my Ed9's and the comfort of and unfatiging sound of Ate's they, for me fall short of the Zn1's




Oh dear
Please compare them anyone before my wallet empties itself lol


----------



## RedTwilight

ruben123 said:


> Oh dear
> Please compare them anyone before my wallet empties itself lol


 
  
 I'd say get the ZS1, the ampless variant. OOTB I was quite literally shocked at the ZN1's sound. Did not expect to encounter another iem with a soundstage that can rival the Havi. Sound quallity is really quite good for the price (KZ's signature) and comfort is excellent too. The fit reminds me of the Heir 4ai or Noble N4U that I tried some time back.


----------



## kaiteck

redtwilight said:


> I'd say get the ZS1, the ampless variant. OOTB I was quite literally shocked at the ZN1's sound. Did not expect to encounter another iem with a soundstage that can rival the Havi. Sound quallity is really quite good for the price (KZ's signature) and comfort is excellent too. The fit reminds me of the Heir 4ai or Noble N4U that I tried some time back.


 
 If kz zn1 can rival the sq of heir 4ai, it may become a game changer...


----------



## RedTwilight

kaiteck said:


> If kz zn1 can rival the sq of heir 4ai, it may become a game changer...


 
  
 Haha more like will definitely change the game. Unfortunately it only rivals the comfort. But much surpasses the Heir in wallet friendliness.


----------



## Ruben123

redtwilight said:


> I'd say get the ZS1, the ampless variant. OOTB I was quite literally shocked at the ZN1's sound. Did not expect to encounter another iem with a soundstage that can rival the Havi. Sound quallity is really quite good for the price (KZ's signature) and comfort is excellent too. The fit reminds me of the Heir 4ai or Noble N4U that I tried some time back.




Thanks!what about the sound quality and signature? (When compared to b3p1)


----------



## CADCAM

Does anyone actually have the ZS1?


----------



## joemama

cadcam said:


> Does anyone actually have the ZS1?


 

 Still waiting on it


----------



## Hisoundfi

So, I got my replacement ZN1 today. 

It's charging, impressions will be coming. 

Also wanted to say I got my hands on a pair of KZ HDS1. They are another RIDICULOUSLY great sounding pair of earphones! 

They sound amazeballs, period.


----------



## eaglearrow

hisoundfi said:


> So, I got my replacement ZN1 today.
> 
> It's charging, impressions will be coming.
> 
> ...


 

 Woahhh. Sweet.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could you describe their sound (hds1) a bit?


----------



## Hisoundfi

I just got them so I can't comment too much, but I'll say it takes the best sound attributes of the ED9 and ATE and combines them.


----------



## HiFiChris

hisoundfi said:


> I just got them so I can't comment too much, but I'll say it takes the best sound attributes of the ED9 and ATE and combines them.


 


 Less bassy than the ED9 with corrected filters in the "matte gold" nozzles?


----------



## aaDee

hisoundfi said:


> I just got them so I can't comment too much, but I'll say it takes the best sound attributes of the ED9 and ATE and combines them.


That's a great news!!!


----------



## eaglearrow

hisoundfi said:


> I just got them so I can't comment too much, but I'll say it takes the best sound attributes of the ED9 and ATE and combines them.


 

 Awesome.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So HDS1 sure is a KZ iem. Initially I thought that it was a rip off in the name of KZ by some diy company.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I don't want to say too much because perceptions differ day to day. 

I'll say they are a great fit and sound awesomesauce. 

I'll do A-B comparisons later


----------



## RedTwilight

ruben123 said:


> Thanks!what about the sound quality and signature? (When compared to b3p1)




I can't rightly remember as I only tested it for a very short while. Signature is warm and smooth as I recall, sound was a little more meaty that Havi but that's all I can remember.


----------



## theuprising

Been taking my ED9 for a spin again, really its quite amazing compared to much more expensive headphones when amped. Though the reason for this is that it has huge ports on either side so it lacks isolation compared to more expensive headphones, but you can't have it all.
  
  
 Is the ZS1 KZ's new flagship or the HDS1, and are any of them good for modern rock?


----------



## bhazard

Hmm, do I really need the HDS1? I have so many KZ lying around getting no love compared to my 7XX and Titan 1.


----------



## CADCAM

I have no real need for another set of IEM's but just ordered the HDS1 in silver on feebay for $7.00...couldn't resist.
 Ordered those VE Monks too...someone help please.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> I don't want to say too much because perceptions differ day to day.
> 
> I'll say they are a great fit and sound awesomesauce.
> 
> I'll do A-B comparisons later


 

 Here in China some sellers label them as KZ Mini.....nice touch! But, what I'm wondering is how do they compare with those that own the KZ Micro.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Okay
 I have read a decent amount of this thread and some other ED9 and ATE reviews
 I have no idea what to get
 I'm stuck between ED9, ATE and ZN1
 I listen to Dubstep (electronic), Heavy Metal and Rap music
 I currently have the Skullcandy Titans as my main earphones (I am aware that these are IEM's we're talking about)
 So what should I get? I have to admit that the ZN1 do look epic! But the ATE and ED9 I can get in England for £20 each whereas I would have to order the ZN1 from China
  
 PS: Just for some background my other audio equipment is JVC HA-MR60X (Over ear Headphones) and I also have the good old Logitech z5500 Surround sound speakers


----------



## Lohb

maggotbasshead said:


> Okay
> I have read a decent amount of this thread and some other ED9 and ATE reviews
> I have no idea what to get
> I'm stuck between ED9, ATE and ZN1
> ...


 

 If you can wait get 2 pairs from China @ 9 quid each vs one set @ 20 quid from UK. Might also want to look at Rock Zircon which may also fit your music styles.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

But which ones to buy?
 I've seen good things from the ZN1 buy also a few bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Rock Zircon's look good but honestly I wanna try some KZ
 Are the ZN1 bad or good?
 What's the best out the ATE, ED9 and ZN1?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Just ordered the HDS1. Can't pass up on another KZ micro driver, especially since the Micro Ring is still tops in my book.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Here in China some sellers label them as KZ Mini.....nice touch! But, what I'm wondering is *how do they compare with those that own the KZ Micro.*


 
  
 I'll let you know when they arrive


----------



## sgl54

The ATE fit very nice and have a nice unfatiging sound, I tend to wear these when I'm very active.The ED9's with there switchable and modable nozzles may be just the thing for trying out Kz. Work well with a variety of music. The Zn1 is still my favorite Kz. Dual driver wih a very nice fit sound signature very close to my Havi b3p1. They are hard to wear while active the amp section hangs in the center of your chest makjng it hard to secure. Build quality , housing wire etc is better on the Zn1 and Ed9 than ate but shouldn't be an issue. Hope this helps


----------



## LaurenceF

I found this Amazon coupon for $3 off on ED9, ED9 with mic, the black ATE with mic, ED SE with mic and the silver ED1.
 The coupon is valid for one week, 10/17/2015 to 10/24/2015
 Store: http://www.amazon.com/shops/A3MWN689GEW9SQ/ref=olp_merch_name_1
  
 Code: headfier
  
 ED9:
www.amazon.com/KZ-Tunning-Nozzles--Ear-Headphones/dp/B010E1QLO8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1445070480&sr=8-3&keywords=headphones
 ED9 with mic:
www.amazon.com/KZ-Tunning-Nozzles-Headphones-Microphone/dp/B010FIYJ5I/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1445070533&sr=8-15&keywords=headphones+with+microphone
 Black ATE with mic:
www.amazon.com/Earphone-Headphones-Running-Eartips-Microphone/dp/B00Y0F6IBG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445071110&sr=8-1&keywords=earphone
 ED SE with mic:
www.amazon.com/KZ-ED-Isolating-Headphones-Sensitivity/dp/B014YK6UC8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445071357&sr=8-1&keywords=headphones+with+microphone
 Silver ED1 with mic:
www.amazon.com/KZ-ED1-Silver-In-ear-headphones/dp/B014ZH2B8M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1445071205&sr=8-2&keywords=headphones
  
 Cheerio!


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Absolutely fantastic!
 This is what I needed.
 So I think I'm just gonna order ATE, ED9 and ZN1 from Aliexpress
 Getting them all seems to be the best thing to do


----------



## pss395

Do anyone have a Taobao link for the ampless ZN1? If their sound signature is close to Havi B3 then I'll gladly purchase it. The amp box sucks tho


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Are these good people to buy them from:
KZ ZN1 Earphone Headphone Smart Headset Original KZ Headphones Bass Auriculares Brand Audifonos Stereo HiFi In Ear Headphones
  
KZ ED9 Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HiFi Earphone With Microphone Transparent Sound
  
2015 New Arrival Original KZ ATE 3.5mm in ear Earphones HIFI Metal Stereo Earphones Super Bass noise isolating
  
 Is there literally no difference with having a mic? or is there something I need to know like its better  not having a mic


----------



## MaggotBasshead

pss395 said:


> Do anyone have a Taobao link for the ampless ZN1? If their sound signature is close to Havi B3 then I'll gladly purchase it. The amp box sucks tho


 
 Why does it suck?


----------



## Trapok

maggotbasshead said:


> Why does it suck?


the amp is little bit annoying(not for sound )


----------



## sgl54

maggotbasshead said:


> Why does it suck?



I find the sound signature very much like my Havi's, but it definately needs the amp to do that. The amp itself is poorly placed. It is half way in between the L plug and the "Y" for the separate ear pieces. It not to heavy but heavy enough that with out some form of support it puts to much pressure on the wires over the ears as well as the ear pieces themselves. The Zn1 comes with 2 shirt clips but these don't hold the wires well enough to do the job. But once it's figured out the sounds very nice and good for about 6 or 7 hours.


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> Just ordered the HDS1. Can't pass up on another KZ micro driver, especially since the Micro Ring is still tops in my book.




How does the Micro Ring compare to the RHA S500i's? 

Just briefly


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Thanks for the info
 Think I'll still get it anyway


----------



## EarTips

guys, new ed3, aka "ed3 youth version", "ed3c"

now with color

 



 





 

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED3-Metal-Micro-Moving-Coil-Unit-In-Ear-Stereo-HiFi-Music-Earphone-Headphones-For-Samsung/1358152_32302313401.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/1825606_32501220286.html

(note: something's not right with aliexpress' weblink, just copy the link n paste it onto the browser)


----------



## FeedingNation

eartips said:


> guys, new ed3
> now with color
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm, any difference in sound tuning, or just aesthetic differences?


----------



## EarTips

both are 6.8mm dynamic drive units, but they claimed that the new ones are 30% more on the dynamic response of whole band.
  
 edit: hmm, looks like the same thing was mentioned on the older ed3 as well.


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> How does the Micro Ring compare to the RHA S500i's?
> 
> Just briefly


 
  
 Not much of a comparison really. The Micro Ring has much better isolation, more bass, is significantly easier to drive, and has a deeper soundstage (I think this is a benefit inherent to mounting the driver in the tip), but that's it. (That's about as brief as I get, haha)
  
 If I were to compare the RHA to any KZ, it would be the ED3. They both have great build quality, are treble and mid focused, but the RHA is bassier and a little edgier at volume. Mids on the RHA are smoother; ED3 is a bit grainy.The ED3's bass is a bit tighter and punchier. The ED3 also tosses in the extra little bit of warmth that I wish the S500i had.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eartips said:


> guys, new ed3
> now with color
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm buying these for sure!


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> Not much of a comparison really. The Micro Ring has much better isolation, more bass, is significantly easier to drive, and has a deeper soundstage (I think this is a benefit inherent to mounting the driver in the tip), but that's it.
> 
> If I were to compare the RHA to any KZ, it would be the ED3. They both have great build quality, are treble and mid focused, but the RHA is bassier and a little edgier at volume. Mids on the RHA are smoother; ED3 is a bit grainy.The ED3's bass is a bit tighter and punchier. The ED3 also tosses in the extra little bit of warmth that I wish the S500i had.




Thanks, I get the impression that I enjoy the S500's quite a bit more than you do


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Can someone give me links to the best people to buy the ATE, ED9 and the ZN1 from?


----------



## EarTips

b9scrambler said:


> I'm buying these for sure!


 
 haha, please write review after you've received it later


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> Thanks, I get the impression that I enjoy the S500's quite a bit more than you do




Probably. I think the S500 is an awesome earphone, no doubt about that at all. Can't think of much I'd recommend over them at that price. But, they're not really my preferred signature. Also, there is another earphone out there that somewhat spoiled everything else for me


----------



## aaDee

We are eagerly waiting for HDS1 review @Hisoundfi


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> Probably. I think the S500 is an awesome earphone, no doubt about that at all. Can't think of much I'd recommend over them at that price. But, they're not really my preferred signature. Also, there is another earphone out there that somewhat spoiled everything else for me




Lol! I wonder which one that might be

I got the impression from your post that you rated the Micro Ring much higher than the S500's. I guess my poor English skills are to blame.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

I know this isn't KZ but...
 Have any of you guys got or heard the Skullcandy Titans?


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> Lol! *I wonder which one that might be*
> 
> I got the impression from your post that you rated the Micro Ring much higher than the S500's. I guess my poor English skills are to blame.


 
  
 We shall never know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I like the Micro Ring more (preferred signature), but it's nowhere near as good as the S500. The RHA wipes the floor with them, haha.


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> We shall never know :rolleyes:
> 
> I like the Micro Ring more (preferred signature), but it's nowhere near as good as the S500. The RHA wipes the floor with them, haha.




Lol, that's clear enough for me to understand, thanks!


----------



## B9Scrambler

eartips said:


> haha, please write review after you've received it later


 
  
 Will do!
  


aadee said:


> We are eagerly waiting for HDS1 review @Hisoundfi


 
  
 Same here. I completely wasn't planning on getting any more cheap iems, but, you know, it's KZ. Can't pass on a near guaranteed good thing.
  
*Micro Ring Love*​  ​ ​


----------



## Lohb

maggotbasshead said:


> Are these good people to buy them from:
> KZ ZN1 Earphone Headphone Smart Headset Original KZ Headphones Bass Auriculares Brand Audifonos Stereo HiFi In Ear Headphones
> 
> KZ ED9 Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HiFi Earphone With Microphone Transparent Sound
> ...


 

 Found this seller faster than my Rock Zircon current seller...
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152/search?origin=n&SortType=orders_desc
 if you don't need the mic, don't buy the mic version...it is just something that could break..


----------



## MaggotBasshead

lohb said:


> Found this seller faster than my Rock Zircon current seller...
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152/search?origin=n&SortType=orders_desc
> if you don't need the mic, don't buy the mic version...it is just something that could break..


 
 Think that's official KZ store


----------



## Igor Eisberg

I've found a TaoBao store that raises many questions about the actual originality of the KZ's earphones...
  
 https://shop102091015.world.taobao.com/


----------



## mochill

Damn you kz, making all these micro dynamic


----------



## aaDee

igor eisberg said:


> I've found a TaoBao store that raises many questions about the actual originality of the KZ's earphones...
> 
> https://shop102091015.world.taobao.com/


May be a common oem company or may be KZ selling their designs to other companies. God knows. I'm OK till the time we are getting good products at cheaper prices.


----------



## 1clearhead

Can anyone say KZ Micro vs. KZ Mini? .....Which one has the edge and comes out ontop!?
  
 Let the battle begin......Ding, ding!


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead Pretty sure the HDS1 will come out on top. Just a hunch.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> 1clearhead Pretty sure the HDS1 will come out on top. Just a hunch.




Don't forget the zs1  oh kz what are you doing


----------



## 1clearhead

Just purchased the *KZ ED3* "Youth Version"! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 49 RMB on taobao website! Are you kidding me?
  
 On another note.....I'll wait for the "knock-out punch" on "Mini vs. Micro" to see who wins. Then, I'll purchase the winner.


----------



## aaDee

Surprisingly no one has got ZS1 yet


----------



## raybone0566

aadee said:


> Surprisingly no one has got ZS1 yet


I just got shipping confirmation this morning. Ordered sometime in september


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Okay
 I ordered the ATE, ED9 and ZN1 from Aliexpress
 Hope they don't take too long to arrive to the UK


----------



## CADCAM

maggotbasshead said:


> Okay
> I ordered the ATE, ED9 and ZN1 from Aliexpress
> Hope they don't take too long to arrive to the UK


 
 Great choice with the ED9 & ATE I have both and enjoy them. No ZN1 though I'm waiting until the ZS1 is available. 
 Remember to roll tips until you hit the right ones!


----------



## Djinnenjous

It's been a long time since I posted here. Since having received my ED10s I've found myself listening to them a lot--and I mean a _lot_. In fact, right now they probably get more use than anything in my collection, except maybe for my Havi B3P1s. They have utterly spectacular sound quality in general, but once you factor in the price (I got mine for < $10 USD *including* international shipping!) their value skyrockets outrageously.

Seriously, in terms of performance-to-price ratio these things might be the best IEMs I have ever heard. They've even got great instrumental imaging and a fascinating sound stage that I find is deep and tall, like a corridor, without the Havis' cavernous width. They really do create a remarkable sense of depth in my music.

The one thing I cannot stand about the ED10s is that the cord, while very well built and behaved, is too short. I can't carry my DX90 in my pocket while wearing my ED10s because the cord is strained to the point where the IEMs will pop out of my ears too easily. Even with that minor gripe, the ED10s get an easy 5/5 recommendation for me at their price range. Unless you're the kind of person who has already invested huge sums of money into outlandishly high-performance gear, you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to pick up a pair of these things. (And even then, they allow you to take great sound on the go without fear of what happens if someone steals your backpack or whatever.)


----------



## MaggotBasshead

cadcam said:


> Great choice with the ED9 & ATE I have both and enjoy them. No ZN1 though I'm waiting until the ZS1 is available.
> Remember to roll tips until you hit the right ones!


 
 Yeah I'm just gonna use the ZN1 for more at home and sat down use because of the amp but we'll wait and see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm sure I'll get a decent amount of tips considering I've ordered three.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

What do you guys recommend DAP wise?
 I need it to be affordable (anything under £30/$30 the cheaper the better)
 I need it to work with my ATE's, ED9's, ZN1 and HA-MR60X headphones
 I need a decent sized screen so I can see what I'm doing and see the album artwork etc


----------



## Ruben123

maggotbasshead said:


> What do you guys recommend DAP wise?
> I need it to be affordable (anything under £30/$30 the cheaper the better)
> I need it to work with my ATE's, ED9's, ZN1 and HA-MR60X headphones
> I need a decent sized screen so I can see what I'm doing and see the album artwork etc


 
 A Ruizu player from Aliexpress or a good old Sandisk Sansa (have small screen though).


----------



## MaggotBasshead

ruben123 said:


> A Ruizu player from Aliexpress or a good old Sandisk Sansa (have small screen though).


 
 What Ruizu should I get and do they have micro sd or sd slots?
 I need at least 64gb storage


----------



## Ruben123

maggotbasshead said:


> What Ruizu should I get and do they have micro sd or sd slots?


 
 The X02 is regarded to be a nice player. Has uSD.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

ruben123 said:


> The X02 is regarded to be a nice player. Has uSD.


 
 Thanks


----------



## MaggotBasshead

You guys know any DAP that's really easy to get around. screen is a big thing for me cos I change what I'm listening to all the time


----------



## Podster

OK gentlemen, the ZN-1's just came in and in passive mode they are BASS Monsters but my real problem is the amp/cable design! Don't want to outright say Tarded but borderline would be an understatement
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So I'm not familiar with the USB cable that came with them and I'm assuming there is an internal battery which I'm not seeing come up when I plug into charge (The little instruction paper tells nothing of switch position to charge so I've tried all and still no juice)!
  
 Probably does not matter if I can get it to charge the whole amp/cable design is not very logical for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know my fellow Fier's are going to enlighten me any minute so I'm in stand-by mode


----------



## sgl54

Charging,Yep it's a mystery. I charge mine turned off and actually like the new style USB  cable but since all my Asus, Samsung... use the micro USB  any of them will work. No light comes on while charging nor when finished. I check by unplugging the eq and switching it on. First charge took between 3 and 4 hours. subsequent charges take between 1 to 2 hours. Not much to be done about the cosmic Y splitter. Once you figure a way to secure the eq it works fine. I do wish they had placed it near the jack and used a traditional Y, must have looked good on paper. Anyway hope this helps
 Scott


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Charging,Yep it's a mystery. I charge mine turned off and actually like the new style USB  cable but since all my Asus, Samsung... use the micro USB  any of them will work. No light comes on while charging nor when finished. I check by unplugging the eq and switching it on. First charge took between 3 and 4 hours. subsequent charges take between 1 to 2 hours. Not much to be done about the cosmic Y splitter. Once you figure a way to secure the eq it works fine. I do wish they had placed it near the jack and used a traditional Y, must have looked good on paper. Anyway hope this helps
> Scott




THX gl, all let it charge up at work tomorrow but still don't care much for the amp placement and cable runs


----------



## MaggotBasshead

We need someone here to do reviews on Youtube.
 That way we can have more depth and explanations into comparisons and sound signature as well as problems.
 There are quite a few KZ reviews and unboxings but there's like 2 that are english!
 Anyone agree?


----------



## JohnVoight

Subbed


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Charging,Yep it's a mystery. I charge mine turned off and actually like the new style USB  cable but since all my Asus, Samsung... use the micro USB  any of them will work. No light comes on while charging nor when finished. I check by unplugging the eq and switching it on. First charge took between 3 and 4 hours. subsequent charges take between 1 to 2 hours. Not much to be done about the cosmic Y splitter. Once you figure a way to secure the eq it works fine. I do wish they had placed it near the jack and used a traditional Y, must have looked good on paper. Anyway hope this helps
> Scott


 

 sgl, you say while charging no lights appear on the eq/amp box but the matey manual says while in charge mode you should see the lightning bolt thru the battery picture on the amps LED screen? Is this something that comes up or appears after the initial charge? It is sure looking like a defective unit to me so far!


----------



## CADCAM

This type of stuff is why I never ordered the ZN1...
  
 On another note I have the following~
  
 Kz ED-9
 Kz ED-10
 Kz ATE 
 Kz Edse
 Meelec CW31 Wooden 
 Mrice BALDOOR E300 
 Xiaomi Piston 2 
 ROCK Mula
  
 Without question my favorite is the ED9 with brass nozzles, stock filters in place and a tiny bit of foam material also stuffed inside each nozzle. For 12 bucks it sounds freakin' amazing. Unfortunately the ROCK Mula was a let down for me.


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> sgl, you say while charging no lights appear on the eq/amp box but the matey manual says while in charge mode you should see the lightning bolt thru the battery picture on the amps LED screen? Is this something that comes up or appears after the initial charge? It is sure looking like a defective unit to me so far!



The charging lightning bolt does come up it you charge with the eq turned on (play mode). I charge them in the off position and that position there is no light and no display so consequently no lightning bolt. First go araround I was a little worried but when I turned it on they were fuly charged. It may just be me but I always tend to recharge after I'm done using the item amd plug and walk away. I always asume jt will charge faster and more completely when off. So take a look at yours and switch it on while charging and check for the lightning bolt, I'm sure it will be there.
SGL


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> This type of stuff is why I never ordered the ZN1...
> 
> On another note I have the following~
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah CAD I hear you, I''m pretty sure I have a defective pair
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a brighter note you and I must have similar hearing as I rate my top three KZ right there with you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 sgl, since the matey manual from KZ on the ZN1's does not indicate which direction is amp off and amp on I 9and you know what this can do) assumed switched towards the power plug to be the off position and in the direction of the volume buttons to be the on position but you can see from the two photo's that I get no power charging indication in either!

  


 Now all I'm hoping is that my soon to arrive ZS1's will not be Bass Thumpers like these are in passive mode


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Yeah CAD I hear you, I''m pretty sure I have a defective pair On a brighter note you and I must have similar hearing as I rate my top three KZ right there with you:wink_face:
> 
> sgl, since the matey manual from KZ on the ZN1's does not indicate which direction is amp off and amp on I 9and you know what this can do) assumed switched towards the power plug to be the off position and in the direction of the volume buttons to be the on position but you can see from the two photo's that I get no power charging indication in either!
> 
> ...



It is frustrsting and yes if you push the switch towards the power plug it in the on position. The only other thing to check for is orientorientation of the "new" style usb cable. You can insert it upside down ( in the charge source) and no charginging will occur. Just to be certain try a traditional micro usb cable. Leave the Zn1's in the on position give it a little bit and the check. You will need to depress a button, treble, bass or vol anh will work amd then if alls good the screen will ckme up. Althoigh even without touching a button the little blue light on the right between the Zn1 logo amd the screen should be on.
Cad your right these little things with a new product can definitely put you off. I liked the Ed9 with the bronze as well which prompted me to get the Zn1's. Mine obviously weren't as buggy of frustrating. It was charge find the right tips ( from ed3) listen the figure out eq placement and now there my second favorite behind my Havi's. My kz experience is Zn1, ed9, ate, edse, ed3 the ate over edse based more on comfort and utility than anythjng else. Still waiting for ed10's so not sure where they'll go.


----------



## Chief Stringer

podster said:


> Yeah CAD I hear you, I''m pretty sure I have a defective pair On a brighter note you and I must have similar hearing as I rate my top three KZ right there with you:wink_face:
> 
> sgl, since the matey manual from KZ on the ZN1's does not indicate which direction is amp off and amp on I 9and you know what this can do) assumed switched towards the power plug to be the off position and in the direction of the volume buttons to be the on position but you can see from the two photo's that I get no power charging indication in either!
> 
> ...




Im sorry to say im hoping for the opposite , looking forward to the first reviews of them on here, heard someone say the zn1's were the ate's on 'roids


----------



## FeedingNation

In your guys personal opinion, do you prefer the ed3 or the ed10, and what makes it so? Really short on money, and wondering which to get. Also, is there driver flex on the ed10?


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> It is frustrsting and yes if you push the switch towards the power plug it in the on position. The only other thing to check for is orientorientation of the "new" style usb cable. You can insert it upside down ( in the charge source) and no charginging will occur. Just to be certain try a traditional micro usb cable. Leave the Zn1's in the on position give it a little bit and the check. You will need to depress a button, treble, bass or vol anh will work amd then if alls good the screen will ckme up. Althoigh even without touching a button the little blue light on the right between the Zn1 logo amd the screen should be on.
> Cad your right these little things with a new product can definitely put you off. I liked the Ed9 with the bronze as well which prompted me to get the Zn1's. Mine obviously weren't as buggy of frustrating. It was charge find the right tips ( from ed3) listen the figure out eq placement and now there my second favorite behind my Havi's. My kz experience is Zn1, ed9, ate, edse, ed3 the ate over edse based more on comfort and utility than anythjng else. Still waiting for ed10's so not sure where they'll go.


 

 THX for hanging in there with me sgl, left them on for a while and apparently the battery needed to reach some modicum of charge to display but we have lift off Houston
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I take back every dirty rotten thing I said about these earlier
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL I think I read in some previous post that these were heavy on the bass in passive mode so hopefully once charged I can see how the eq/amp section sounds with the controllable treble and bass
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't give up Chief the ZS1's may be perfect since I'm going to assume they will be tuned differently
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 CAD, don't let user error/impatience deter you. I think these are going to be OK, at least function wise however unorthodox the design is!


----------



## sgl54

No problem, yes the bsss is very different in passive mode. I actually don't care for them in passive mode. Mine did have a little breaking change as well, somewhere between 10 snf 20 hours. I had heard 20 minutes somewhere, but hey it took me longer than that to figure them out!


----------



## EarTips

@Podster
 glad that your zn1's eqbox is working, maybe now the next "upgrade" would be to do some mods to extend the wires that lead to those earpieces,
 and oh, the L and R on the earpieces are reversed.


----------



## 1clearhead

djinnenjous said:


> It's been a long time since I posted here. Since having received my ED10s I've found myself listening to them a lot--and I mean a _lot_. In fact, right now they probably get more use than anything in my collection, except maybe for my Havi B3P1s. They have utterly spectacular sound quality in general, but once you factor in the price (I got mine for < $10 USD *including* international shipping!) their value skyrockets outrageously.
> 
> Seriously, in terms of performance-to-price ratio these things might be the best IEMs I have ever heard. They've even got great instrumental imaging and a fascinating sound stage that I find is deep and tall, like a corridor, without the Havis' cavernous width. They really do create a remarkable sense of depth in my music.
> 
> *The one thing I cannot stand about the ED10s is that the cord*, while very well built and behaved, *is too short*. I can't carry my DX90 in my pocket while wearing my ED10s because the cord is strained to the point where the IEMs will pop out of my ears too easily. Even with that minor gripe, the ED10s get an easy 5/5 recommendation for me at their price range. Unless you're the kind of person who has already invested huge sums of money into outlandishly high-performance gear, you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to pick up a pair of these things. (And even then, they allow you to take great sound on the go without fear of what happens if someone steals your backpack or whatever.)


 
  
 Try buying a 1/8 (3.5) 3 inch long extension wire at your local electronics store. Make sure one end is a male jack and female the opposite end. This should work just fine for you.


----------



## eaglearrow

@Hisoundfi  waiting for your detailed impressions on HDS1.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 thanks in advance


----------



## Hisoundfi

eaglearrow said:


> @Hisoundfi
> waiting for your detailed impressions on HDS1..
> thanks in advance


I'm thoroughly swamped with reviews. I have 13 reviews to do before I get to the HDS1. 

For now all I can say is just go for it. They are epic and I highly recommend them. Definitely top3 for kz


----------



## Hisoundfi

Balanced sound with a slight lift on both ends


----------



## peter123

cadcam said:


> This type of stuff is why I never ordered the ZN1...
> 
> On another note I have the following~
> 
> ...




Yeah, I feel the same about the Mula's. 

Out of those I own my ranking is like this:
ED9 w/brass filter
Mr Rice BALDOOR E300
Piston 2.0
KZ EDSE 
Rock Mula 
KZ ATE

I'm pretty sure that there's something wrong with my ATE. Alternatively I don't get a good seal but I don't think that's the case since the IM70 that's very similar fits me fine.


----------



## eaglearrow

hisoundfi said:


> I'm thoroughly swamped with reviews. I have 13 reviews to do before I get to the HDS1.
> 
> For now all I can say is just go for it. They are epic and I highly recommend them. Definitely top3 for kz


 

 Man.. That's now that's a 'LIFE'... i can only wish to dream of..


----------



## Hisoundfi

eaglearrow said:


> Man.. That's now that's a 'LIFE'... i can only wish to dream of..


It's a gift and a curse, trust me. 

Many times I wish I could just kick back and enjoy my favorite gears and hang out with you all. Instead I have to burn them in, listen to the same 10-15 songs, do comparisons, take pictures, and spend 4-6 hours of my life writing, editing, and posting reviews all within a certain deadline. 

I love it don't get me wrong, but it's not as glamorous as you would think.


----------



## Podster

THX Tips but DIY is not my forte especially with cave man clubs for fingers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since I wear my iem's over ear these may be on the right side in this case! Of course the eq/amp box sitting in the middle of my check like a Flavor Flav alarm clock
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 puts a kink in my style so hopefully the ZS1's will be the ticket
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Man, it's shots like these that remind me who I descended from
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL
  
 I have to say I'm fairly impressed with the amp on and treble at 8 and bass at 4, but just can't sport the cable/amp dangle


----------



## EarTips

@Podster
Hahaha I actually don't know what's Flavor Flav alarm clock till I google, yeah, you r right

And it's really time consuming to diy the cables.


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> It's a gift and a curse, trust me.
> 
> Many times I wish I could just kick back and enjoy my favorite gears and hang out with you all. Instead I have to burn them in, listen to the same 10-15 songs, do comparisons, take pictures, and spend 4-6 hours of my life writing, editing, and posting reviews all within a certain deadline.
> 
> I love it don't get me wrong, but it's not as glamorous as you would think.


 

 And to top it off the Cubbies are having a bad time


----------



## Hisoundfi

podster said:


> And to top it off the Cubbies are having a bad time


(slowly walks away crying)


----------



## MaggotBasshead

TOBI - SLIME
 I seem to think this would sound unbelievably wicked on the ZN1's


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> (slowly walks away crying)


 

 I feel your pain brother, ever since the Bartman deflected that potential catch by Moises I fear them even getting a chance to enter post season
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hold on and I'll wipe my eyes and walk with you!


----------



## Podster

maggotbasshead said:


> TOBI - SLIME
> I seem to think this would sound unbelievably wicked on the ZN1's


 

 Why yes, yes it does


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> It's a gift and a curse, trust me.
> 
> Many times I wish I could just kick back and enjoy my favorite gears and hang out with you all. Instead I have to burn them in, listen to the same 10-15 songs, do comparisons, take pictures, and spend 4-6 hours of my life writing, editing, and posting reviews all within a certain deadline.
> 
> I love it don't get me wrong, but it's not as glamorous as you would think.


 
 So when will your next review be published and what will it be on?  Better yet, you ought to publish a gear review schedule with tentative dates.  This would give us all something to look forward to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: on second thought, a review schedule might not be a good idea (for you).  We'd just start bothering you if you were late with a review.  Carry on.


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> So when will your next review be published and what will it be on?  Better yet, you ought to publish a gear review schedule with tentative dates.  This would give us all something to look forward to.


In order (depending on time availability) 

Torque Audio t402v
Torque Audio t096v
ZMF omni
Spinfit tips
RHA s500i 
Venture Electronic Duke
Venture Electronic Monk
Fiio X7
Brainwavz S3
Alpha & Delta AD01
Ubsound Dreamer
Sidy DM4
Macaw r10
Macaw r20
KZ HDS1 
KZ headphone (yet to be announced) 

I was wrong, I have 14 reviews before I get to HDS1.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Also forgot to mention somewhere in there I need to post impressions on the trinity vario


----------



## Hisoundfi

I also have some custom in ears coming that I can't mention. Once they're released I'll let you all know. 

Cheers


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> Also forgot to mention somewhere in there I need to post impressions on the trinity vario


 

 Sleep, who needs sleep


----------



## slowpickr

hisoundfi said:


> In order (depending on time availability)
> 
> Torque Audio t402v
> Torque Audio t096v
> ...


 
  
 Thanks buddy!  I have the Monks on order as well as some Puro IEM 500s which aren't on your list.


----------



## Hisoundfi

slowpickr said:


> Thanks buddy!  I have the Monks on order as well as some Puro IEM 500s which aren't on your list.


those definitely sparked my interest. They look a lot like the duoza. 

Looking forward to your impressions


----------



## LuparaX2

Hi, I've been lurking this thread a few months and have read most of it. Want to say thanks to everyone who has posted here, it has helped to burn many hours of free time but also gotten me some neat bang for the buck IEMs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So far I've gotten (in order of purchase) ATE, ED10, Micro rings and finally today arrived the ANVs. It's been pretty much a lottery though because I've encountered QC issues. Will post impressions and comparisons later when i get the time to.
  
 But the main reason I made the account is because the ANV I recieved today have driver imbalance on the bass side. The right side has a full and punchy bass, the other side pretty much nothing at all. The air holes don't seem obstructed or anything, but the mesh seems to be a tiny bit more pushed in on the less bassy side. 
  
 Any idea how to open them without damaging them (the look rather nice) or in any other ways to fix them. Don't have time to try anything today as work awaits.


----------



## CoiL

Just pull them apart by holding one hand on plastic side and other on metal.


----------



## Horton

igor eisberg said:


> I've found a TaoBao store that raises many questions about the actual originality of the KZ's earphones...
> 
> https://shop102091015.world.taobao.com/


 
 About KZ proucts have to explain:
 KZ is the brand design original initial headphone. The KZ (Knowledge Zenith) brand is blong to Yuanze co., Ltd(will see the company name in the packaging). KZ research the driver, housing each part by KZ self. May find ED11 model and other proucts similar as KZ proucts. It is customized, ODM, or may be imitation. Or could check at http://kzyingyin.tmall.com http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152


----------



## TwinACStacks

Yep. I feel the same way about the Mula. BIG letdown after it's sibling the Rock Zircon.
  
 I ordered 2 pairs of the Mulas that are now destined for "The Drawer"....
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

Horton Thanks for explaining those KZ lookalike earphones.


----------



## CADCAM

peter123 said:


> Yeah, I feel the same about the Mula's.
> 
> Out of those I own my ranking is like this:
> ED9 w/brass filter
> ...


 
 That was a listing in alphabetical order only my top 3 would be~
  
 ED9
 ATE
 Piston 2\EDse
  
 I agree something must be wrong with your ATE if you placed them last.


----------



## peter123

cadcam said:


> That was a listing in alphabetical order only my top 3 would be~
> 
> ED9
> ATE
> ...




Yes, understood.

I just wanted to say that I shared your impressions on the Mula's and ED9's and listed them all while I was at it


----------



## MaggotBasshead

podster said:


> Why yes, yes it does


 
_*THE HYPE IS REAL! *_




Can't wait til my ZN1's come now


----------



## CADCAM

slowpickr said:


> Thanks buddy!  I have the Monks on order as well as some Puro IEM 500s which aren't on your list.


 
 I also ordered the Monks from feebay and paid for "faster" shipping...seems like people who have heard them love them. We will see.


----------



## vad0s

Does anyone here have ED10 and Sony MH1? I've both and I've been listening only to ED10 for few weeks. Now I tried to listen to MH1. The MH1 sound MUCH better than ED10 to me. Could anyone compare these 2 IEMs? Now I feel like I have broken ED10, even that they're probably okay  .


----------



## CADCAM

vad0s said:


> Does anyone here have ED10 and Sony MH1? I've both and I've been listening only to ED10 for few weeks. Now I tried to listen to MH1. The MH1 sound MUCH better than ED10 to me. Could anyone compare these 2 IEMs? Now I feel like I have broken ED10, even that they're probably okay  .


 
 You prob. just got used to the sound sig of the Sony's and are now hearing some short comings of the ED10. I'm not familiar with the MH1 but after listening to my Kz's through the summer I was a little surprised how good my Superlux EVO's sounded. I still enjoy the Kz's though and don't feel they sound broken just not able to keep up with a 40 dollar full size can.


----------



## eaglearrow

vad0s said:


> Does anyone here have ED10 and Sony MH1? I've both and I've been listening only to ED10 for few weeks. Now I tried to listen to MH1. The MH1 sound MUCH better than ED10 to me. Could anyone compare these 2 IEMs? Now I feel like I have broken ED10, even that they're probably okay  .


 

 I Used to have both, but now i've given my ED10 to my colleague. E10's are great. But i prefer MH1's for my daily commute. The relaxed sound of those are just perfect for me. May be the superb quality treble and the lack of 'exaggerated mid-bass' in MH1's are making u feel so?
 Planning to rewire my MH1's soon


----------



## CADCAM

ED9 & ATE are execllent for the price and EDse (red screens) sound fantastic from my Sansa Clip.  EDse are very fun to listen to, ATE is laid back with nice lower mids and lows and the ED9 are detail budget detail masters. All IMHO of course!


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Man, it's shots like these that remind me who I descended from
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Man that's some deep @ss insertion...


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Man that's some deep @ss insertion...


 

 As the Big Bad Wolf told Red, better to hear you with my dear
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 By the way I'm in full agreement with the above statements on the ED9 & ATE


----------



## CADCAM

Pulled my Baldoor E300's out of storage and was relaxing to some Eric Tingstad & Nancy Rumble give and take...it sounded very good with detail and a bit of low end then switched to my ED9. The ED9 killed them with even better detail extraction and better sound overall top to bottom. I have 2 pairs of ED9 and may order a 3rd...how are these 12 dollars?


----------



## lesp4ul

eaglearrow said:


> I Used to have both, but now i've given my ED10 to my colleague. E10's are great. But i prefer MH1's for my daily commute. The relaxed sound of those are just perfect for me. May be the superb quality treble and the lack of 'exaggerated mid-bass' in MH1's are making u feel so?
> Planning to rewire my MH1's soon :bigsmile_face:




Agree, i have both also. But it depends of what genre do you listen. MH1 is a great allrounder iem, but if you prefer male jazz vocal, ed10 is a better choice, female and highs on ed10 sometimes can be piercing. With MH1, all freq is very smooth, but vocal sm mid are recessed.


----------



## eaglearrow

lesp4ul said:


> Agree, i have both also. But it depends of what genre do you listen. MH1 is a great allrounder iem, but if you prefer male jazz vocal, ed10 is a better choice, female and highs on ed10 sometimes can be piercing. With MH1, all freq is very smooth, but vocal sm mid are recessed.


 
  true.. The mids are bit recessed in MH1. But to counter this issue, i've filter modded (with the pinhole method) my MH1 and now they just sound superbly balanced with almost flat sig. The bass has tamed down a lot and the mids are upfront. Loving them


----------



## 1clearhead

cadcam said:


> Pulled my Baldoor E300's out of storage and was relaxing to some Eric Tingstad & Nancy Rumble give and take...it sounded very good with detail and a bit of low end then switched to my ED9. The ED9 killed them with even better detail extraction and better sound overall top to bottom. I have 2 pairs of ED9 and may order a 3rd...how are these 12 dollars?


 
  
 +1 .....Ed9's are better when it comes to lows and high's, while the E300's were tuned to be more balanced. But, I also give the edge to the ED9's.


----------



## EISENbricher

ED10 have been my favorite since I purchased those and liked them better than my ATE or ED9. But two days ago one side's cable was pulled accidentally and the sheath at the earpiece joint came out just a little. But that ruined the sound entirely. Now the affected earpiece sounds compressed and with less volume. I opened my backup ED10 that I had purchased separately but unfortunately if has channel imbalance : ( 
  
 Does anyone know how to open ED10 backplate? I know Coil had posted the steps sometime back but I've been unable to find in this huge thread.
  
 For now using ATE (which is still a pleasure to use) and ordered ED11.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Does anyone know how to open ED10 backplate? I know Coil had posted the steps sometime back but I've been unable to find in this huge thread.


 
 1. Pull from the cable relief part so it comes out of IEM enclosure and slips along the cable. It should stay unbroken so You can put it back.
 2. Put some thick needle or nail into that cable hole and just push and twist it against cable hole edge and it will pop off.
  
 Some posts back Horton posted some info that ED11 is not official version of ED10 but modified by resellers and it can`t be sure if they use exactly same drivers.
 So far though users say it sounds same to ED10.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> 1. Pull from the cable relief part so it comes out of IEM enclosure and slips along the cable. It should stay unbroken so You can put it back.
> 2. Put some thick needle or nail into that cable hole and just push and twist it against cable hole edge and it will pop off.
> 
> Some posts back Horton posted some info that ED11 is not official version of ED10 but modified by resellers and it can`t be sure if they use exactly same drivers.
> So far though users say it sounds same to ED10.


 
 Thanks for the steps I'll try opening my ED10 to see if I can fix it. 
  
 Oh, I also noticed that post, but too late. Fingers crossed, it should not sound too bad.


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> 2. Put some thick needle or nail into/through that cable hole (*with needle tip against backplate inner center) *and just push and twist it against cable hole edge and it will pop off.


 
 Little correction in explanation.


----------



## EISENbricher

How about ZS1? Has anybody tried it? 
  
 If yes then how is its sound in rough terms (signature basically)


----------



## joemama

eisenbricher said:


> How about ZS1? Has anybody tried it?
> 
> If yes then how is its sound in rough terms (signature basically)


 

 Waiting on it....


----------



## CADCAM

joemama said:


> Waiting on it....


 
 If anyone actually gets this hp, verifies the channels are not wired backward as the ZN1 is (so I've read) and it sounds good I'll try it...


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mine was officially in the air on the 21st, so it should be here around this time November.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Mine was officially in the air on the 21st, so it should be here around this time November.


 

 Mine shipped on the 3rd of this month, it's now in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Post Mode


----------



## sgl54

maggotbasshead said:


> _*[COLOR=000000]THE HYPE IS REAL! [/COLOR]*_:atsmile:
> Can't wait til my ZN1's come now



Hype? Compared to the other Kz's not much has been written here about them. I'm glad your getting excited about the Zn1. I really like mine. One thing I found was I was incorrect about was the time it took for "burn in". Im over the 40 hour mark and they require less and less eq to get that same rich full result. They still surprise me.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

sgl54 said:


> Hype? Compared to the other Kz's not much has been written here about them. I'm glad your getting excited about the Zn1. I really like mine. One thing I found was I was incorrect about was the time it took for "burn in". Im over the 40 hour mark and they require less and less eq to get that same rich full result. They still surprise me.


 
 I really don't wanna burn them in though. I don't have the time to leave my laptop on for a week and not be able to use it


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> If anyone actually gets this hp, verifies the channels are not wired backward as the ZN1 is (so I've read) and it sounds good I'll try it...


 I wonder if it's just that the Zn1 stickers are upside down when worn. It seems more likely given the time and effort put into the amp/eq design . I have not noticed any left to right change when comparing them back an forth to my Havi's.I'll have to hunt up something with a very noticeable difference and give it a try. I'll let you know.


----------



## sgl54

maggotbasshead said:


> I really don't wanna burn them in though. I don't have the time to leave my laptop on for a week and not be able to use it


I didn't burn mine in. I had read somewhere burn in occurred at 20 minutes. The sounded pretty nice right off. But I noticed a change at 20 hours and then again just recently. I think it less noticable because you can quickly settle thungs with the eq. That said this last change made a very nice change, richer fuller. But all along ok after a few hours to figure them iut with different music I've been impressed and pleased. This last change had me going back to do a direct comparison with my Havi b3p1 the sound signature I wanted to find in them. So all is good you should like them all along and they'll just get better and better


----------



## eaglearrow

Guys, KZ LP3 for just $12.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Headphone-KZ-LP3-Headphones-HIFI-Stereo-Bass-Earphones-And-Headphone-Noise-Isolating-Ear-Earphones-With/32453367584.html


----------



## MaggotBasshead

sgl54 said:


> I didn't burn mine in. I had read somewhere burn in occurred at 20 minutes. The sounded pretty nice right off. But I noticed a change at 20 hours and then again just recently. I think it less noticable because you can quickly settle thungs with the eq. That said this last change made a very nice change, richer fuller. But all along ok after a few hours to figure them iut with different music I've been impressed and pleased. This last change had me going back to do a direct comparison with my Havi b3p1 the sound signature I wanted to find in them. So all is good you should like them all along and they'll just get better and better


 
 Okay  sounds awesome


----------



## HiFiChris

eaglearrow said:


> Guys, KZ LP3 for just $12..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I haven't found _any _impressions or reviews on those yet.
 Do you have further information about them?


----------



## eaglearrow

hifichris said:


> I haven't found _any _impressions or reviews on those yet.
> Do you have further information about them?


 

 Me neither, but @BloodyPenguin and @lesp4ul owns 1. Might wanna ask them for impressions. Guys could you share your impressions ?


----------



## sgl54

Regarding reports of ZN1's being wired incorrectly right / left. I just listened to the "3D Binaural guitars with separate strings" post 3959 this thread, with the Zn1's. The sound follows the visual representation perfectly and confirmed ( as it's visual probably not needed) with the Havi B3p1's. So while the Zn1 stickers are upside down when worn in the correct position ( never noticed till someone posted a picture) sound out put left to right is accurate, full and rich.


----------



## HiFiChris

When I use the "balance" slider to adjust the L/R level, I can say that at least my ZN1 has got reversed channels.


----------



## lesp4ul

Quick impression of LP3, it has a bright signature. vocal and mids are quite foward, high can be piercing and harsh (tested with hidisz ap100), maybe it will performs better on warmer dap. Bass level is enough, but lack of depth. If you like jazz, alto vocal or male vocal song, this will be a great choice for the price. Build quality is okay, also spare large grado like earpad is a plus point of you aren't comfortable with on ear ones.


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Mine shipped on the 3rd of this month, it's now in h34r: Post Mode:blink:




Mine were "shipped" out at the start of the month as well but there was nothing to indicate this was actually done. I think I was just given a tracking numbe. It wasn't until the 21st that there was actually some movement to track. Annoying, but as long as they eventually get here I don't really care. Love my KZs and am not expecting to be disappointed by the ZS1.


----------



## sgl54

Wow, that's a problem. I've heard of QC issues with Kz but that one seems huge. It seemed odd that it wasn't caught, especially as there can't be that many of these units made so far and theoretically there Kz's flagship. I thought a small number of people would wire, assemble, sticker and pack meaining QC control would be tighter and good. I never thought to check till it was brought up above and told Maggotbasshead I'd check for him. I'm honestly amazed, stickers yes but wiring in an amp? no. I will say I've had mine for just over three weeks( then there is shipping)  so maybe I got a set from an early run. Not sure but I really like them and the seem to be getting better as they go along. Sorry about your set.


----------



## BloodyPenguin

eaglearrow said:


> Me neither, but @BloodyPenguin and @lesp4ul owns 1. Might wanna ask them for impressions. Guys could you share your impressions ?


 
  
  


lesp4ul said:


> Quick impression of LP3, it has a bright signature. vocal and mids are quite foward, high can be piercing and harsh (tested with hidisz ap100), maybe it will performs better on warmer dap. Bass level is enough, but lack of depth. If you like jazz, alto vocal or male vocal song, this will be a great choice for the price. Build quality is okay, also spare large grado like earpad is a plus point of you aren't comfortable with on ear ones.


 
  
 I agree with @lesp4ul assessment of the LP3.  I just really did not like it much at all though.  Not a sound signature I enjoy.
  
 Plus they were SUPER uncomfortable as the ear pads do not flex much, so fit is very questionable.  
  
 ..


----------



## HiFiChris

Just ordered the LP3 on AliExpress, but decided I don't actually need it (doubt that it will be as good as the Porta Pro with Equalizer, which I use sometimes (actually very rarely) for outdoor endurance sports).
 When I cancel an order on Ali, do I get my money back? I paid with "Sofortüberweisung", which is basically online banking, and the money is already debited.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Mine were "shipped" out at the start of the month as well but there was nothing to indicate this was actually done. I think I was just given a tracking numbe. It wasn't until the 21st that there was actually some movement to track. Annoying, but as long as they eventually get here I don't really care. Love my KZs and am not expecting to be disappointed by the ZS1.


 

 Yep, for the price I've been happy with all my KZ iem's (not wild about the ZN1 EQ/Amp box and short cables) however they sound pretty sweet. Hoping my new $20 ZS1's remedy my ZN1 problem


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Yep, for the price I've been happy with all my KZ iem's (not wild about the ZN1 EQ/Amp box and short cables) however they sound pretty sweet. Hoping my new $20 ZS1's remedy my ZN1 problem


 

 I agree , I've been happy with all my Kz's. The Zn1's are the odd man out for me. The short cords from amp to the ears pieces was poorly thought out. If the sound weren't so nice I wouldn't use them but as it is I keep grabbing them. I saw a picture of the amp board floating around here at some point, everything looked soldiered but I didn't notice placement on the board . Consequently I wonder how hard it would be to re-cable them. 12 to 14 inches would be great. I haven't ordered the Zs1's yet ( not sure why) although it took longer to decide and order on the Zn1's for me than any other. Looking forward to hear what you think of them.


----------



## davi99

hello.
 i used kz ed9 for a month. i loved its sound, quality, bass response. Now its broken and i want to try similar iems from kz. what do you recommend? as i say, i loved kz ed9 sound signature. both gold and other nozzles. i take a look at kz ate and kz edse. which on would be better? i love bassy iems with clear sound. for example, i love to hear eminem's aggressive style in '' rap god '' thing. i love how kz ed9 managed everything perfecly; bass, vocals, separation... i strongly recommend kz ed9 to you if you dont have YET. But as i told you, its broken my fault. Now i am looking for another iems to try. What do you recommend? as i said, i want clear, bassy, separated sound. suprisingly it was really hilarious that ed9 managed both beethoven's 5th symphony and eminem. i even heard eminem's breath, scary! and there is one more thing about the sound quality of this beast, all of these music source was spotify (free) and onboard soundcard of P5KPL AM SE (10 years old motherboard).

 final things. there is some kz ed things on aliexpress. ed3, edse, ed2, ed8m, kz ate.... i ordered another kz ed9 already. but i want to try iems i wrote above. which one is closest to the their father; ed9 ?


----------



## Hisoundfi

davi99 said:


> hello.
> 
> i used kz ed9 for a month. i loved its sound, quality, bass response. Now its broken and i want to try similar iems from kz. what do you recommend? as i say, i loved kz ed9 sound signature. both gold and other nozzles. i take a look at kz ate and kz edse. which on would be better? i love bassy iems with clear sound. for example, i love to hear eminem's aggressive style in '' rap god '' thing. i love how kz ed9 managed everything perfecly; bass, vocals, separation... i strongly recommend kz ed9 to you if you dont have YET. But as i told you, its broken my fault. Now i am looking for another iems to try. What do you recommend? as i said, i want clear, bassy, separated sound. suprisingly it was really hilarious that ed9 managed both beethoven's 5th symphony and eminem. i even heard eminem's breath, scary! and there is one more thing about the sound quality of this beast, all of these music source was spotify (free) and onboard soundcard of P5KPL AM SE (10 years old motherboard).
> 
> ...


Go with the HDS1 or ATE


----------



## Hisoundfi

ED10 is great as well


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> ED10 is great as well


 

 I think the 11 is a refined version of the 10 Vince, bet they even changed the glue for the new brass end caps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sound is almost identical between my 10's and 11's however the 11's have better aesthetics.
  
 sgl, if you wait a little bit I can give you a report on the difference between the ZS1 and ZN1 at least in passive mode, hoping they have tuned them somewhere in between the passive and amp on of the ZN1's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What I'm thinking is because of the dual drivers the ZS1's are going to work fine but need a little amp behind them and that I can provide in a choice of flavors


----------



## davi99

i heard kz ate is lack of bass when compared to ed9's.
 What do you think about KZ Ed Special Edition? is it comperable to ed9?


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> I think the 11 is a refined version of the 10 Vince, bet they even changed the glue for the new brass end caps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Time? That I can do. I think your probably right, they'll be somewhere in between. Un amped (Zn1) they're so bass centric I just can't see that as the sound signature for the Zs1's. It really over shadows the mids. But as there marketing seems to emphasize bass it should be strong. None of my other Kz's have seen a huge improvement with an amp, but you'll be pushing more drivers hopefully further in each direction. Should be interesting. Thanks looking forward to the feedback


----------



## LuparaX2

Cracked the ANV open to find whats wrong with them. Had to pry them open from a small slot on the bottom, also the were glued shut so no way you could open them by hand unless you had pliers for fingers.
  
 Found out what the problem was with my ANVs. It was caused by a crappy soldering job; the filter on the back vent hole had a hole burnt in. I removed the filters on both sides and they sound the same now. But now the bass bleeds horribly into the vocals; the 250-500Hz range is way too overpowered. -6 and -5 dB respectedly on the EQ makes them sound "right".
  
 Pic of the earphone http://imgur.com/WFdfQ52. 
  
 Any ideas what to use as a substitude for the filter that would dampen those frequencies? Foam?


----------



## HiFiChris

davi99 said:


> i heard kz ate is lack of bass when compared to ed9's.
> What do you think about KZ Ed Special Edition? is it comperable to ed9?


 


 The ATE is pretty balanced with a dark-ish character, prominent and warm mids and a very moderate warmth overall. I've measured it, but didn't have the time to measure the other KZ IEMs I possess except for the ZN1.
 This diffuse-field compensated graph should give you a rough hint of how they compare (green is the ZN1, but please think of the treble peek being _at least_ 5 dB less, as it was caused by some resonance due to not deep enough insertion being possible in the Vibro Veritas microphone coupler):


 (measurements being taken with the stock black narrow-bore silicone tips)
  
 I'll try to measure my other KZ IEMs and put them in a graph that weekend if I find time to, but there's not much at the moment.


----------



## davi99

thanks. but i am not really know these -5 - + Db  things. i dont really understand graphics. But that darkish Ate is on the pocket


----------



## vovka

omg
was planning to buy HDS1 but now i see that HDS2 are comming
KZ guys are damn fast


----------



## davi99

this is what happened to my kz ed9


----------



## chavez

vovka said:


> omg
> was planning to buy HDS1 but now i see that HDS2 are comming
> KZ guys are damn fast




Source?


----------



## lesp4ul

bloodypenguin said:


> eaglearrow said:
> 
> 
> > Me neither, but @BloodyPenguin and @lesp4ul owns 1. Might wanna ask them for impressions. Guys could you share your impressions ?
> ...




i think fast rock / trash metal genre lovers will like this portable also, and yes the fitting problem because of the headband is too light and the cup design should be angled. Honestly, I bought this majority because i like the looks 



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## lesp4ul

hifichris said:


> Just ordered the LP3 on AliExpress, but decided I don't actually need it (doubt that it will be as good as the Porta Pro with Equalizer, which I use sometimes (actually very rarely) for outdoor endurance sports).
> When I cancel an order on Ali, do I get my money back? I paid with "Sofortüberweisung", which is basically online banking, and the money is already debited.




Yes you can also use an equalizer, i don't know about canceling order on ali. I think, LP3 is not bad for the price. Many cheap portable only has boomy bass, lack of details, but this is different.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lohb

davi99 said:


> this is what happened to my kz ed9


 

 Yes, but what _happened_ ? Did you snag them on something ? Mine are holding up very well to lots of snagging on things.
 At least cost of replacement is less than cost of repair....One reason I would not buy expensive IEMs.


----------



## kaiteck

davi99 said:


> this is what happened to my kz ed9


 
 This is the exact same thing happened to my piston 2 :/ 
 But it was just my abusive usage.


----------



## EarTips

vovka said:


> omg
> was planning to buy HDS1 but now i see that HDS2 are comming
> KZ guys are damn fast


 

 or is it the new ed3 youth version?


----------



## EISENbricher

Ordered green HDS1. Believing people in this thread who said its awesome. 

I have had consecutive bad experience with other seller though. My KZ stuff bought from Shenzhen integrity store and tombuy was either imbalanced had one dead side. Whereas everything bought from their official store was pretty flawless. 

Never gonna buy stuff fromfrom other sellers...


----------



## vovka

chavez said:


> Source?





eartips said:


> or is it the new ed3 youth version?



https://kzyingyin.world.tmall.com/
translated by google


> KZ HDS2
> Expect miniature robbery ring


----------



## davi99

lohb said:


> Yes, but what _happened_ ? Did you snag them on something ? Mine are holding up very well to lots of snagging on things.
> At least cost of replacement is less than cost of repair....One reason I would not buy expensive IEMs.


 
  
  


kaiteck said:


> This is the exact same thing happened to my piston 2 :/
> But it was just my abusive usage.


 

 it is long story. i recommend you to strengthen hole where your cords entering earphone. it is quite weak on ed series. ate has durabilty system for it, as i know.


----------



## kaiteck

davi99 said:


> it is long story. i recommend you to strengthen hole where your cords entering earphone. it is quite weak on ed series. ate has durabilty system for it, as i know.




 I wouldn't bother doing that for $8 earpiece LOL. Lucky i bought ate


----------



## davi99

it is right. but you would do the same if you are not employed(considering not everybody using US dollar,  so, amount of money is multiplied at least x3) and there is a reality which shipping takes 30 days.


----------



## Horton

lesp4ul said:


> Quick impression of LP3, it has a bright signature. vocal and mids are quite foward, high can be piercing and harsh (tested with hidisz ap100), maybe it will performs better on warmer dap. Bass level is enough, but lack of depth. If you like jazz, alto vocal or male vocal song, this will be a great choice for the price. Build quality is okay, also spare large grado like earpad is a plus point of you aren't comfortable with on ear ones.


 
  
 Yes, the LP3 is prefer to mids; earpad, hm, how about this earpad


----------



## davi99

horton said:


> Yes, the LP3 is prefer to mids; earpad, hm, how about this earpad


 
 it looks miserable. using these kinds of bulky old farts while you can enjoy Ed series.... i dont know.. not very good choice.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

eisenbricher said:


> Ordered green HDS1. Believing people in this thread who said its awesome.
> 
> I have had consecutive bad experience with other seller though. My KZ stuff bought from Shenzhen integrity store and tombuy was either imbalanced had one dead side. Whereas everything bought from their official store was pretty flawless.
> 
> Never gonna buy stuff fromfrom other sellers...


 
 I bought my ZN1 from Shenzen integrity electronics  They're in the post right now


----------



## Horton

maggotbasshead said:


> I bought my ZN1 from Shenzen integrity electronics  They're in the post right now


 
 In fact usual the sellers just could send the parcel in 2days. I worried is if they could choose a suitable express. And hear the double eleven will be more crowded. But I will be glad if they this is a enjoyable event. I will create my wish list to check then. Hope KZ did not let me despair, haha


----------



## Lohb

horton said:


> In fact usual the sellers just could send the parcel in 2days. I worried is if they could choose a suitable express. And hear the double eleven will be more crowded. But I will be glad if they this is a enjoyable event. I will create my wish list to check then. Hope KZ did not let me despair, haha


 

 Will you ever be designing something like the ED9 with a deeper and maybe more impactful low-end ? It is an excellent IEM for the price and something like it, retaining the micro-detail and tonality, would be a winner for sure.


----------



## joemama

eisenbricher said:


> Ordered green HDS1. Believing people in this thread who said its awesome.
> 
> I have had consecutive bad experience with other seller though. My KZ stuff bought from Shenzhen integrity store and tombuy was either imbalanced had one dead side. Whereas everything bought from their official store was pretty flawless.
> 
> Never gonna buy stuff fromfrom other sellers...


 

 Bought mine from this vendor (in milky white!);
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html
  
 Bought HDS1 plus two pair of ED10 and XDuoo X2, all with no problems. Very satisfied with their customer service. Good luck


----------



## davi99

hey. which one is closer to kz ed9 in terms of sound quality, bass, sound seperation?

 kz ed3
 kz ed2
 kz edse(special ed.)


----------



## 1clearhead

davi99 said:


> hey. which one is closer to kz ed9 in terms of sound quality, bass, sound seperation?
> 
> kz ed3
> kz ed2
> kz edse(special ed.)


 

 I saw you mentioned the *KZ ED2*......do you have these? I would like to know how they sound? .....Or, anybody from this thread for that matter.


----------



## EISENbricher

joemama said:


> Bought mine from this vendor (in milky white!);
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-Earphones-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo-Dynamic-HIFI/32479302753.html
> 
> Bought HDS1 plus two pair of ED10 and XDuoo X2, all with no problems. Very satisfied with their customer service. Good luck



Thanks for the heads up  



maggotbasshead said:


> I bought my ZN1 from Shenzen integrity electronics  They're in the post right now



Good luck. While I guess I just got unlucky. But the customer support that you can expect from Official store isn't applicable for third party stored.


----------



## davi99

i just had kz ed9... i am curios about ed's i wrote above.


----------



## DooberKnob

That graphs looks like it's showing some legit bass cannons.


----------



## CADCAM

FYI I have 2 pair of ED9 and they look new, I'm just careful with them as they are not like handling a full size can. Some people go through IEM's quickly but mine seem to last. I had a pair of cheap Panasonic RPHJE120K (that sound pretty good) that lasted over 2 years wearing them to the gym almost exclusively.


----------



## twister6

Guys/gals, it was just brought up to my attention that a number of Alie sellers are using my KZ review pictures (with a granite countertop background). I don't know if those are legitimate sellers or not or whatever, and to be honest I don't even care if they use my pictures, but I want everyone to be aware that I did NOT give permission to anybody to use my pictures in their product listing and I do NOT endorse any sellers by allowing them to use my review pictures...


----------



## eaglearrow

twister6 said:


> Guys/gals, it was just brought up to my attention that a number of Alie sellers are using my KZ review pictures (with a granite countertop background). I don't know if those are legitimate sellers or not or whatever, and to be honest I don't even care if they use my pictures, but I want everyone to be aware that I did NOT give permission to anybody to use my pictures in their product listing and I do NOT endorse any sellers by allowing them to use my review pictures...


 

 yep, i can tell its urs the moment i see those granites. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...  Even when google search pulls out an image search for reviews..


----------



## kaiteck

twister6 said:


> Guys/gals, it was just brought up to my attention that a number of Alie sellers are using my KZ review pictures (with a granite countertop background). I don't know if those are legitimate sellers or not or whatever, and to be honest I don't even care if they use my pictures, but I want everyone to be aware that I did NOT give permission to anybody to use my pictures in their product listing and I do NOT endorse any sellers by allowing them to use my review pictures...


 
 Be glad that they didn't copy your review. I think pictures are fine.


----------



## B9Scrambler

kaiteck said:


> Be glad that they didn't copy your review. I think pictures are fine.




I found one that copy/pasted his entire ED9 review....*shakes head* no shame.


----------



## davi99

for god sake, which one is closer to ed9 in terms of overal sound quality?

 A: edse,
 B: ed2,
 C: ed3


----------



## Ruben123

davi99 said:


> for god sake, which one is closer to ed9 in terms of overal sound quality?
> 
> 
> A: edse,
> ...




Chill out. Neither. Ed2=edse and ed3 is bright.


----------



## Hisoundfi

davi99 said:


> for god sake, which one is closer to ed9 in terms of overal sound quality?
> 
> A: edse,
> B: ed2,
> C: ed3


 
 Buddy, relax! 
  
 The EDSE was my favorite KZ until The ED9 came along. Now my favorite might be the HDS1, but I haven't quite figured that out. The HDS1 has many similar characteristics to the ED9.
  
 The closest one of the ones you've listed to the ED9 IMHO would probably be the ED3. 
  
 Hope this calms you down


----------



## peter123

davi99 said:


> for god sake, which one is closer to ed9 in terms of overal sound quality?
> 
> 
> A: edse,
> ...




ED9 is closest, so very easy if you like ED9 sound buy the ED9 and chillax


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> ED9 is closest, so very easy if you like ED9 sound buy the ED9 and chillax


 
 I hope you guys are jumping on that HDS1 bandwagon, especially you Peter!
  
 They're awesomesauce!


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> I hope you guys are jumping on that HDS1 bandwagon, especially you Peter!
> 
> They're awesomesauce!




I'm on the HDS1, ED3 2015, and ZS1 bandwagons.


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> I hope you guys are jumping on that HDS1 bandwagon, especially you Peter!
> 
> They're awesomesauce!




I'll just wait for that sub $5 price


----------



## Hisoundfi

peter123 said:


> I'll just wait for that sub $5 price


Lmao, ya, $10 is kind of pricey... Jkjk


----------



## peter123

hisoundfi said:


> Lmao, ya, $10 is kind of pricey... Jkjk




Lol! Yeah, it's important to save and I'd like an ice-cream as well for that $10


----------



## joemama

hisoundfi said:


> I hope you guys are jumping on that HDS1 bandwagon, especially you Peter!
> 
> They're awesomesauce!


 

 I was thinking more amazeballs sauteed in awsomesauce.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, they really are good. Still burning them in (around 50 hr mark), but I really enjoy the mids and highs, which aren't veiled like the ATE or sibilant like the ES.


----------



## sgl54

davi99 said:


> for god sake, which one is closer to ed9 in terms of overal sound quality?
> 
> 
> A: edse,
> ...


That would be "A" but I will qualify that with, I don't have the ed2. But they are closer than the ed3. I still place the ed3 at the bottom of my Kz's. Ed3, Edse, ate, ed9, Zn1.


----------



## peter123

Fwiw the EDSE and ED9 don't share much of their sound imo. Haven't heard the ed2/3 though so they may very well be even more different. 

I stand by my earlier post: if you want ED9 sound and are set on sticking to KZ just get the ED9's.


----------



## davi99

worst thing about ed3 is, has no microphone 
 also, seller told me qkz x6 is best headset on their store(in terms of my desires). anybody tried qkz x6 ? i think i will go with edse( cuz has mic) or qkz x6 (cuz its recommended)


----------



## davi99

sgl54 said:


> That would be "A" but I will qualify that with, I don't have the ed2. But they are closer than the ed3. I still place the ed3 at the bottom of my Kz's. Ed3, Edse, ate, ed9, Zn1.


 
 it is reverted, huh?
 in terms of you choice   zn1 > ed9 > ate > edse > ed3 ?
 i mean, ed3 is your least liked iem?


----------



## sgl54

davi99 said:


> it is reverted, huh?
> 
> in terms of you choice   zn1 > ed9 > ate > edse > ed3 ?
> 
> i mean, ed3 is your least liked iem?



Definitely . The signature by all accounts should be better than I hear them. I've wondered if more "burn in" will improve them but with the exception of the Edse and Zn1 I don't burn any in. I have relegated these and my Sony Xba1's to listing to audiobooks. Who knows they may wake up some day.


----------



## Arvan

peter123 said:


> Lol! Yeah, it's important to save and I'd like an ice-cream as well for that $10


 
  
 Good luck in Norway  More like 110 haha


----------



## peter123

arvan said:


> Good luck in Norway  More like 110 haha




Lol! True


----------



## davi99

btw, i am the only one who heard gold filters of ed9 is more like symphonic? i mean, gold filters gives me better sound seperation than other nozzles. i also think gold ones has worse bass than other nozzles. But seller and owners tells opposite.


----------



## CADCAM

hisoundfi said:


> I hope you guys are jumping on that HDS1 bandwagon, especially you Peter!
> 
> They're awesomesauce!


 
 I have them on route to me...are they really on the same level as the ED9 brass nozzles?
 btw I also like the EDse...fun sound and super cheap.


----------



## Chief Stringer

hisoundfi said:


> I hope you guys are jumping on that HDS1 bandwagon, especially you Peter!
> 
> They're awesomesauce!


 

 Sounds good i like their simple design, how bass heavy are they and hows the sound signature compared to the ed9, ate, or ed10?


----------



## Majin

Any comprehensive review of the KZ ZN1 or KZ ZS1?


----------



## MaggotBasshead

majin said:


> Any comprehensive review of the KZ ZN1 or KZ ZS1?


 
 Guess not haha
 My ZN1 are in the post


----------



## Majin

Man i was really tempted to buy the ZN1 since they were on sale. But i feel they are so clunky with an amp hanging around my chest. I will just wait for reviews and see how good they are.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

majin said:


> Man i was really tempted to buy the ZN1 since they were on sale. But i feel they are so clunky with an amp hanging around my chest. I will just wait for reviews and see how good they are.


 
 I ordered them anyway seeing as I'll be using my ED9 and ATE for walking. I'm gonna use my ZN1 for long journeys and just sat at home where the amp won't really be a nuisance.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

All I've heard is really good things from the ZN1


----------



## Podster

maggotbasshead said:


> All I've heard is really good things from the ZN1


 

 I really like the sound signature of the ZN1 and as much as I don't like the amp box in the middle of my chest I will say it does now weigh very much, as a matter a fact you can't feel it nor will it pull your iem's out if worn over ear


----------



## sgl54

majin said:


> Man i was really tempted to buy the ZN1 since they were on sale. But i feel they are so clunky with an amp hanging around my chest. I will just wait for reviews and see how good they are.


You should go ahead and get a set, the sound signature is great and once you adjust to the amp/eq you'll be happy with them. They're getting cheap, to cheap to sustain being around a lot longer. I like mine enough that I'm concidering a second pair.


----------



## Majin

sgl54 said:


> You should go ahead and get a set, the sound signature is great and once you adjust to the amp/eq you'll be happy with them. They're getting cheap, to cheap to sustain being around a lot longer. I like mine enough that I'm concidering a second pair.


 
  
 I might get them on the next sale. I'm happy with using my sony mh1 and kz ed9 outdoors and using my TF10 indoors. What kind of IEM do they compare to / are they better then other popular IEMs?


----------



## sgl54

majin said:


> I might get them on the next sale. I'm happy with using my sony mh1 and kz ed9 outdoors and using my TF10 indoors. What kind of IEM do they compare to / are they better then other popular IEMs?


 The closest these compare to based on what I have Kz ed3, ed9, ed10, ate Sony xba1 Havi b3p1. Closest are the Havi's. The sound's full rich and adjustable. Where they make the biggest difference for me is when I use my tablet. it's an Asus zenpad 8 intel with dts/hd sound ( doesn't pust the Havi's as well with out akp). With the xduoo x2 and Fiio x3ii I get almost the same from both. The ed9 would be the closest Kz.


----------



## Majin

sgl54 said:


> The closest these compare to based on what I have Kz ed3, ed9, ed10, ate Sony xba1 Havi b3p1. Closest are the Havi's. The sound's full rich and adjustable. Where they make the biggest difference for me is when I use my tablet. it's an Asus zenpad 8 intel with dts/hd sound ( doesn't pust the Havi's as well with out akp). With the xduoo x2 and Fiio x3ii I get almost the same from both. The ed9 would be the closest Kz.


 
  
 Which IEM do you prefer more the HAVI B3P1 or the KZ ZN1?


----------



## sgl54

majin said:


> Which IEM do you prefer more the HAVI B3P1 or the KZ ZN1?



That's getting more difficult to say. The Havi signature is almost perfect for me, they're easier to use. But I'm at the point where I grab Zn1's just as much around the house the sound of both can be very immersive. So first thing in the morning over coffe I find I'm grabbing the Zn1's more often then the Havi's. And definitely when listening to "marginal" material.


----------



## davi99

arent those 100$ klipsh, JVC, AudioTech is disguisting to see on the right panel? their production cost is nearly 5$ and selling them from 100$. do they think we are stupid to buy these garbages while we have our glorius KZ?


----------



## MaggotBasshead

davi99 said:


> arent those 100$ klipsh, JVC, AudioTech is disguisting to see on the right panel? their production cost is nearly 5$ and selling them from 100$. do they think we are stupid to buy these garbages while we have our glorius KZ?


 
 So very true


----------



## ebrian

Hi folks,
  
 I got my ATE and ED10 about 3 weeks ago and I'm ready to write a quick review at least on the ATE.  I haven't really used the ED10 that much yet, although I will say that while they are a bit underpowered, they may be the most comfortable fit I've had for an iem.  
  
 I've been using ATE with the MEElec Double Flange tips.. I pretty much use these tips on everything.
  
 - bass is pretty strong for ATE, they have a warm sound signature
 - mids/vocals are severely lacking
 - vocals lack the sparkle of some of my more favored iems
 - microphonics are absolutely atrocious due to the horrible material they have decided to use for the cables
 - the nozzles are huge, so you get a great seal and thus the isolation on these are amazing.  the nozzles are like elephant trunks compared to any other iem i've ever owned.
 - out of the box i could not discern any soundstage but they seem to be opening up a bit over time.  Still great though..
 - i can't stress how much i hate the material used for hte cable.  when these get tangled up, i get so frustrated that I want to tear them apart
  
 Question for you guys, there are these little gold pill-shaped things on the cable about 4 inches down from the earpiece.  I can't for the life of me figure out what they are for.  At first I thought it was a counterweight to kind of help the God forsaken cable to fall naturally behind my ear but they're very light.  One of the pills has split apart and I'm trying to decide if I need them at all.  
  
 Final thoughts: I like these better than the VSonic VSD1 which were 3-4 times the cost because they have a similar sound signature minus the harsh highs.  For $10, these are a good deal and my best sub-$30 iems although for moving up a class to sub-$50 would be well worth your time ($/hr) these days.


----------



## EISENbricher

ebrian said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I got my ATE and ED10 about 3 weeks ago and I'm ready to write a quick review at least on the ATE.  I haven't really used the ED10 that much yet, although I will say that while they are a bit underpowered, they may be the most comfortable fit I've had for an iem.
> 
> ...



Whats wrong with the cable? It's similar to most of the KZ IEMs.


----------



## sgl54

ebrian said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I got my ATE and ED10 about 3 weeks ago and I'm ready to write a quick review at least on the ATE.  I haven't really used the ED10 that much yet, although I will say that while they are a bit underpowered, they may be the most comfortable fit I've had for an iem.
> 
> ...


From what I understand they are counter weights. The canles are pretty flexible and they do seem to help. If you weren't completely satisfied with the ed10's you may want to try the ed9's. They don't have the same fit as the ed10's, but the sound signature is better and tunable with switchable nozzles and at the same price point. With the variety of sound signatures amd quality Kz seems to have pushed that sub $30 into almost about sub $50 class. With the Zn1's down at $30 and Sn1 ( still an unknown but hopefull) at $20 things have definitely changed


----------



## B9Scrambler

davi99 said:


> arent those 100$ klipsh, JVC, AudioTech is disguisting to see on the right panel? their production cost is nearly 5$ and selling them from 100$. do they think we are stupid to buy these garbages while we have our glorius KZ?




Eh! Don't group JVC with the rest of those plebes. JVC is amazing. So is KZ. Klipshe can suck it, lol.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

b9scrambler said:


> Eh! Don't group JVC with the rest of those plebes. JVC is amazing. So is KZ. Klipshe can suck it, lol.


 
 Very true
 The XX headphones are amazing


----------



## Trapok

KZ-ZS1 for 18$,who pulls the trigger first?


----------



## joemama

trapok said:


> KZ-ZS1 for 18$,who pulls the trigger first?


 

 Ordered on 10/1 and still waiting on the slowest plane from Singapore to land in the US (probably went via carrier pigeon).


----------



## Trapok

joemama said:


> Ordered on 10/1 and still waiting on the slowest plane from Singapore to land in the US (probably went via carrier pigeon).


 
 Theresa is faster  normally 2 weeks to France


----------



## joemama

trapok said:


> Theresa is faster  normally 2 weeks to France


 

 That's who I ordered from.


----------



## Trapok

On 1/10 she doesn't have it yet(are you sure u bougth the ZS1, ZS1 is the ZN1 without amp)!!!!!


----------



## Podster

joemama said:


> Ordered on 10/1 and still waiting on the slowest plane from Singapore to land in the US (probably went via carrier pigeon).



Now I'm wondering if that plane is going to Singapore first since I ordered mine on 10/3 to the US! These have been my longest wait on an aliEx order and really makes me think no one really has them in stock yet


----------



## davi99

podster said:


> Now I'm wondering if that plane is going to Singapore first since I ordered mine on 10/3 to the US! These have been my longest wait on an aliEx order and really makes me think no one really has them in stock yet


 

 the more you want, later you get. just buy and forget.


----------



## Podster

davi99 said:


> the more you want, later you get. just buy and forget.



Oh I do, sometimes I totally forget then it's like Christmas when it arrives


----------



## sgl54

davi99 said:


> the more you want, later you get. just buy and forget.


 

 Yep but I feel stupid when they get here "oh yea I did order these" but like the Zn1's I'm really looking forward to the Sn1's.


----------



## CADCAM

Ordered the KZ HDS1 October 16th on feebay and received them today! Could be the most impressive KZ I've heard out of the box so far. Good detail, nice lows and highs. Stock tips sound fantastic. More to come but they sound very very good. I'm impressed!


----------



## Chief Stringer

cadcam said:


> Ordered the KZ HDS1 October 16th on feebay and received them today! Could be the most impressive KZ I've heard out of the box so far. Good detail, nice lows and highs. Stock tips sound fantastic. More to come but they sound very very good. I'm impressed!




Would you mind quickly describing how the bass compares with the ed10, ed9 and ates? Along with how sharp the highs are compared to those too?


----------



## Lohb

cadcam said:


> Ordered the KZ HDS1 October 16th on feebay and received them today! Could be the most impressive KZ I've heard out of the box so far. Good detail, nice lows and highs. Stock tips sound fantastic. More to come but they sound very very good. I'm impressed!


 
 Which seller ? That is fast. Nearly up to a month on Zircons now...


----------



## RedTwilight

davi99 said:


> arent those 100$ klipsh, JVC, AudioTech is disguisting to see on the right panel? their production cost is nearly 5$ and selling them from 100$. do they think we are stupid to buy these garbages while we have our glorius KZ?


 
  
 You're entirely missing out that they have spent millions of dollars on research for their extensive line. It's never just about the material cost. Manufacturing smaller things precisely costs more as well, hence BAs are pretty expensive to produce and use. But then this is a discussion for another place. Just wanted to set the record straight.


----------



## joemama

trapok said:


> On 1/10 she doesn't have it yet(are you sure u bougth the ZS1, ZS1 is the ZN1 without amp)!!!!!


 

 Yes. I ordered the ZS1 because I didn't want the amp dongle.


----------



## sgl54

joemama said:


> Yes. I ordered the ZS1 because I didn't want the amp dongle.



I'm just hoping the sound signature is similar to amped version (Zn1) But hope it's not tuned at the flat factory setting. Flat is 7 and right off I needed drop the treble 1 to 2 and bump the base the same to get a full natural sound without sibilants and balance the bottom. The magic dongle is hard to get used to but it works very well ( borderline magic). Still I'm lookng forward to the un amped version (Sn1) it's kn the way but everyone nere knows how long that takes.


----------



## HiFiChris

sgl54 said:


> joemama said:
> 
> 
> > Yes. I ordered the ZS1 because I didn't want the amp dongle.
> ...




Wow, you've either got a very bad seal or are a real basshead, as the ZN1 with flat/disabled EQ has got already a strong bass emphasis of more than 10 dB.


----------



## CADCAM

lohb said:


> Which seller ? That is fast. Nearly up to a month on Zircons now...


 
 http://stores.ebay.com/bessky/
  
 Ordered 2 more pairs last night as gifts. These sound very good OOTB. As I said I'm impressed.


----------



## CADCAM

chief stringer said:


> Would you mind quickly describing how the bass compares with the ed10, ed9 and ates? Along with how sharp the highs are compared to those too?


 
 Give me a couple days but I can say my favorite KZ is the ED9 and these are right there with them in sq. For the price they are a no-brainer IMO.


----------



## davi99

redtwilight said:


> You're entirely missing out that they have spent millions of dollars on research for their extensive line. It's never just about the material cost. Manufacturing smaller things precisely costs more as well, hence BAs are pretty expensive to produce and use. But then this is a discussion for another place. Just wanted to set the record straight.


 
 so, Knowledge Zenith (KZ) is not spending millions of dollars into research? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 No matter what, you cant sell iem above 20$. This is nonsense.


----------



## ebrian

I'm not a fan of the material used for the ATE cables.  They're kind of rubbery and no matter how you flex them and twist them, they always seem to be tangled up.  I cannot get these to just lay flat or to just fall as they should.  I do understand that the material may be more robust than the standard cable material, but personal taste I hate them.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Give me a couple days but I can say my favorite KZ is the ED9 and these are right there with them in sq. For the price they are a no-brainer IMO.




Yeah Cad, for $11 I ordered the HDS1 but if I was a betting man I've seen the eD9 as the favorite from day one of Vince hyping them and they are my faves still but as always I'm going to give the HDS1 a shot at dethroning them


----------



## Podster

davi99 said:


> so, Knowledge Zenith (KZ) is not spending millions of dollars into research?  No matter what, you cant sell iem above 20$. This is nonsense.




Right, I'm sure all these great sounding KZ iem's have just been a shot in the dark put together with a Hienze 57 approach Guess we should all order cheap materials and build our own KZ compitition


----------



## mebaali

cadcam said:


> http://stores.ebay.com/bessky/


 
 Thanks for the link, mate!
  
 Ordered Red color ones


----------



## peter123

davi99 said:


> so, Knowledge Zenith (KZ) is not spending millions of dollars into research?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm curious of what over $100 IEM's you've tried that you feel the KZ's outperform?


----------



## slowpickr

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the HDS1s are now on Amazon US for $11 with free shipping (not Prime though).  They show up under different names such as Beteran, DZT1968 and my personal favorite TOOPOOT.


----------



## mebaali

slowpickr said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the HDS1s are now on Amazon US for $11 with free shipping (not Prime though).  They show up under different names such as Beteran, DZT1968 and my personal favorite TOOPOOT.


 
 Available from ebay for US$ 6.43 with free worldwide shipping
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-Mini-Metal-DIY-Headset-HD-Dynamic-Ear-Headphones-Handfree-Earphone-/381417359293?var=&hash=item9779a562a7
  
 (Link courtesy @CADCAM )


----------



## sgl54

hifichris said:


> Wow, you've either got a very bad seal or are a real basshead, as the ZN1 with flat/disabled EQ has got already a strong bass emphasis of more than 10 dB.



Nope seal is fine, just miscommunication. What I described as flat was eq turned on and set at 7 and 7 which is really 0 and factory default. So I prefer I take away a little treble add a little bass ( I guess they couldn't do negative numbers in the display) but with the amp turned off it is as you say a bass head ( way over the top ) 10 db sounds right. I'd prefer the Sn1 not shipped at either point ( amp off or amp on flat) but eq on set flat 7,7 would be much better. I guess you can see why I haven't done a review, I don't always make myself understood well.


----------



## slowpickr

mebaali said:


> Available from ebay for US$ 6.43 with free worldwide shipping
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-Mini-Metal-DIY-Headset-HD-Dynamic-Ear-Headphones-Handfree-Earphone-/381417359293?var=&hash=item9779a562a7
> 
> (Link courtesy @CADCAM )


 
 Thanks!  That's a much better price.  Think I'll give them a go.  Do they have the same cable as other KZ IEMs such as the EDSE?  I believe Hisoundfi stated the cable sucked.  The EDSE cable doesn't bother me though.
  
 Edit:  Can anyone comment on how these compare to other budget micro drivers such as MH1C or EPH100?


----------



## HiFiChris

sgl54 said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, you've either got a very bad seal or are a real basshead, as the ZN1 with flat/disabled EQ has got already a strong bass emphasis of more than 10 dB.
> ...


 

 I got your point in your very first post (got a ZN1 myself and am aware of 7 being actually "0").
 Just a bit surprised that you dial in even more bass, as the ZN1 has already got quite a lot of bass with flat and/or turned off EQ, and every EQ step adds +/-2 dB.
 Apart from the strong bass emphasis, I think the ZN1 is really nice.


----------



## sgl54

peter123 said:


> I'm curious of what over $100 IEM's you've tried that you feel the KZ's outperform?



The Zn1 is definitely better than my Sony Xba1 although I can see both sides of the argument. Recoverable vs non recoverable engineering and development costs, especially at a unit cost level over time isn't something I give much thought too. But I will admit it was a small part of why I bought the Zn1.


----------



## mebaali

@slowpickr - Yep. $6.43 is a pretty good price for these.
  
 From the pics it appears HDS1 to be having KZ's customary memory cable that we have seen in other KZ models.


----------



## raybone0566

slowpickr said:


> Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the HDS1s are now on Amazon US for $11 with free shipping (not Prime though).  They show up under different names such as Beteran, DZT1968 and my personal favorite TOOPOOT.


Just received mine yesterday. Took less than two weeks. Nice clean sound with no burn in


----------



## sgl54

hifichris said:


> I got your point in your very first post (got a ZN1 myself and am aware of 7 being actually "0").
> 
> Just a bit surprised that you dial in even more bass, as the ZN1 has already got quite a lot of bass with flat and/or turned off EQ, and every EQ step adds +/-2 dB.
> 
> Apart from the strong bass emphasis, I think the ZN1 is really nice.



Interesting, it may be a unit specific issue. There have have been occasional QC issues with Kz products. But the eq works well in correct any perceived problems. Af far as the reference pf flat at 7 those who don't have the Zn1's. Hard to mistake when uoj have a pair. I haven't quite figured out how many on the forum have a st in hand. The number just feels very low. But I really like the Zn1's especially with acoustical guitar ( Daniela Andrade etc) and they are much better on marginal music files. Thanks for the feed back, while what I write typically makes sense to me it dosen't always to everyone else.


----------



## sgl54

sgl54 said:


> Interesting, it may be a unit specific issue. There have have been occasional QC issues with Kz products. But the eq works well in correct any perceived problems. Af far as the reference pf flat at 7 those who don't have the Zn1's. Hard to mistake when you have a pair. I haven't quite figured out how many on the forum have a Zn1's in hand. The number just feels very low. But I really like the Zn1's especially with acoustical guitar ( Daniela Andrade etc) and they are much better on marginal music files. Thanks for the feed back, while what I write typically makes sense to me it dosen't always to everyone else.



Did I mention I can't type for sh.. with a tiny keyboard? Ok my spelling isn't great either and…


----------



## CADCAM

mebaali said:


> Thanks for the link, mate!
> 
> Ordered Red color ones


 
 I ordered 2 more, red & white! My first are silver. They are comfortable (for me) and the stock tips fit me perfect...that's a first.


----------



## SWLIU

mebaali said:


> Available from ebay for US$ 6.43 with free worldwide shipping
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-Mini-Metal-DIY-Headset-HD-Dynamic-Ear-Headphones-Handfree-Earphone-/381417359293?var=&hash=item9779a562a7
> 
> (Link courtesy @CADCAM )


 
 Ordered HDS1 from this buyer last month (9/29) to California and it has not arrived yet...


----------



## Hisoundfi

HDS1 FTW


----------



## CADCAM

swliu said:


> Ordered HDS1 from this buyer last month (9/29) to California and it has not arrived yet...


 
 I got mine in 10 days but I did pay the 90 cents for shipping.
 Just ordered 2 more yesterday (also got the expedited shipping) and will post when they come in.


----------



## rjbell

do you know if this is there official website? http://www.kzearphone.com/English/contact/ the contact email address is just a standard outlook email address and i've tried to email and its failed.


----------



## CADCAM

mebaali said:


> Available from ebay for US$ 6.43 with free worldwide shipping
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-Mini-Metal-DIY-Headset-HD-Dynamic-Ear-Headphones-Handfree-Earphone-/381417359293?var=&hash=item9779a562a7
> 
> (Link courtesy @CADCAM )


 
 FYI guys I did pay .90 cents for expedited shipping, I should have mentioned that...me bad.


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> HDS1 FTW


 

 ISTG this is the last KZ iem you are going to coerce me into
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hmm, the line "Famous Last Words" comes to mind here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I won't let you go it alone this time Vince, CAD has been conducting the train fairly well himself!! LOL


----------



## DangerClose

Any opinions on HDS1 soundstage?


----------



## joemama

cadcam said:


> http://stores.ebay.com/bessky/
> 
> Ordered 2 more pairs last night as gifts. These sound very good OOTB. As I said I'm impressed.


 

 Thanks for the heads up! Ordered two more pair!


----------



## slowpickr

HDS1s ordered from bessky.  Total came to a whopping $7.33 with expedited shipping.


----------



## Podster

slowpickr said:


> HDS1s ordered from bessky.  Total came to a whopping $7.33 with expedited shipping.


 

 Dang AliExpress seller ripped me off for $2.66


----------



## raybone0566

dangerclose said:


> Any opinions on HDS1 soundstage?


nice, but ed9 is better imo


----------



## sgl54

raybone0566 said:


> nice, but ed9 is better imo


 

 Thanks, I may not have to buy them till the hit the $2.95 level. Of what I own ED3, Edse, Ate, Ed9 Ed10 and Zn. Discounting the Zn1's ( they really are in a different category) the Ed9 has the nicest over all sound, sound stage etc of them. Granted they all sound nice and the Ed9's three dollars more ( it does come  with extra bits and pieces) but I haven't found any not worth the asking price.


----------



## davi99

sgl54 said:


> Thanks,* I may not have to buy them till the hit the $2.95 level*. Of what I own ED3, Edse, Ate, Ed9 Ed10 and Zn. Discounting the Zn1's ( they really are in a different category) the Ed9 has the nicest over all sound, sound stage etc of them. Granted they all sound nice and the Ed9's three dollars more ( it does come  with extra bits and pieces) but I haven't found any not worth the asking price.


 
 what do you mean by that?


----------



## sgl54

This is the first release I haven't felt compelled to buy immediately since I caught the Kz bug. For some reason there is always that initial rush and price and then 2 to 4 weeks later there is a sizable price drop. Like the Zn1's at $49.95 now there at $30.00 the Sn1 $29.95 now there at $18.00. My second pair of Ed9's were just under $10.00 the first near $18.00 Just about the  same for my two pair of Ate's ( only double sets I have) If the Zn1's drop a little more I may grab a second of those as well. I can't really say why I haven't been excited about them. I am excited about the Sn1's I ordered, which fit the same time frame so that's probably it. I will say I do talk a good game and I will weaken and  probably end up ordering a set before long.


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> This is the first release I haven't felt compelled to buy immediately since I caught the Kz bug. For some reason there is always that initial rush and price and then 2 to 4 weeks later there is a sizable price drop. Like the Zn1's at $49.95 now there at $30.00 the Sn1 $29.95 now there at $18.00. My second pair of Ed9's were just under $10.00 the first near $18.00 Just about the  same for my two pair of Ate's ( only double sets I have) If the Zn1's drop a little more I may grab a second of those as well. I can't really say why I haven't been excited about them. I am excited about the Sn1's I ordered, which fit the same time frame so that's probably it. I will say I do talk a good game and I will weaken and  probably end up ordering a set before long.


 

 I figured out why I keep getting confused when I read this, it's ZS1 and not Sn1!
  
 "KZ-ZS1 Original Brand Two Unit Driver Headphones"


----------



## sgl54

Yep, that it is! but my auto correct keeps saying it's not! Sorry for the confusion.  I wonder how far back I started that. Anyway the Zn1  is almost completely different from the Sn1, well except the wires and well the ear pieces. Ok it's just the amp  that is completely different. I can see the confusion. Thanks for catching that.


----------



## davi99

i need recommendations.

 ed9
 edse
 hds1
 qkz x6

 which one is better for edm?


----------



## TwinACStacks

davi99 said:


> i need recommendations.
> 
> ed9
> edse
> ...


 





 Rock Zircon
  








 TWIN


----------



## SWLIU

cadcam said:


> FYI guys I did pay .90 cents for expedited shipping, I should have mentioned that...me bad.


 
 Just received my HDS1 exactly one month after I ordered it (without expedited shipping). Its sound is similar to ED9 but microphonics is much worse. Have to wear them cable-up.


----------



## slowpickr

twinacstacks said:


> Rock Zircon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I second that the Zircons are great for EDM.  Only one on list I have is the EDSE and the Zircon spanks it.


----------



## CADCAM

slowpickr said:


> I second that the Zircons are great for EDM.  Only one on list I have is the EDSE and the Zircon spanks it.


 

 It's funny\weird but I like my EDse more straight from my Sansa Clip than my IEM set-up (Beresford Capella & Bushmaster MKII with NAD C542). It sounded good on that system but there's a fun factor I love out of the Clip...weird huh? This is the first hp I have that sounds better from a cheap old mp3 player.  Sounded so good I wore them driving home today from the gym. First time I've done that.
  
 I bought the Zircons September 13th from Aliexpress and still no sign of them...


----------



## Lohb

Anyone ordered KS HDS1 from TomSale Co. on aliexpress ?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-In-ear-with-Microphone-Mic-Earphones-HIFI-Wire-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo/32491201330.html
  
 Girlfriend lost 2 sets of earphones in 2 months...


----------



## RedTwilight

lohb said:


> Anyone ordered KS HDS1 from TomSale Co. on aliexpress ?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-In-ear-with-Microphone-Mic-Earphones-HIFI-Wire-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo/32491201330.html
> 
> Girlfriend lost 2 sets of earphones in 2 months...


 
  
 Oddly enough I've bought KZ off a TomBUY before.
  
 Oh I see that it's Michael Chan still. Yea probably ok. Mine took a long time to arrive because they'd ran out of stock but didnt say. Probably good to verify stock status first. 
  
 Other than that all was well.


----------



## EarTips

raybone0566 said:


> dangerclose said:
> 
> 
> > Any opinions on HDS1 soundstage?
> ...


 

 Think I'll stick with the ed9s, got it at 5.xx/pair last time.


----------



## EarTips

cadcam said:


> It's funny\weird but I like my EDse more straight from my Sansa Clip than my IEM set-up (Beresford Capella & Bushmaster MKII with NAD C542). It sounded good on that system but there's a fun factor I love out of the Clip...weird huh? This is the first hp I have that sounds better from a cheap old mp3 player.  Sounded so good I wore them driving home today from the gym. First time I've done that.


 
 Yap agree, i think the components matching is doing a great job there,
 some tracks sounded much more musical when using just the in-ears and the sansa clip.


----------



## 1clearhead

After burning-in the KZ-ED3 Youth Version for more than 75 hours I wasn't that impressed. It tends to imitate ED9's sound signature, but lacks everything the Ed9 does so well.
  
 ......On another note: Did anyone here realize that the KZ-ED11 sounds actually better ontop with a cleaner more vivid treble when compared to the harsh trebles on the ED10's? I actually think these are the cleanest and most transparent sounding KZ, by far. ......haven't tried them against HDS1, or ZS1, yet.


----------



## CoiL

ED10 and ED11 should be exactly same and use same drivers... though, ed11 isn`t legit KZ version, it is "tuned" by other resellers, so, no-one can be sure of their legitimacy.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> ED10 and ED11 should be exactly same and use same drivers... though, ed11 isn`t legit KZ version, it is "tuned" by other resellers, so, no-one can be sure of their legitimacy.


 

 I was more than sure they used the same drivers, but after burning them in for more than 100 + hours they actually sound cleaner and clearer ontop than the ED10's. My thoughts were the same at first, but the ED10's definitely sound different on top and can not keep-up with the ED11's.
  
 .....I say, if anyone owns both, try comparing them after a long burn-in' session. There's definitely a difference. A couple of pages back another reviewer had the same experience.


----------



## CoiL

This could be also QC and production difference... I`ve had two littlebit different sounding ED9`s, so no wonder if they have SQ difference within one series. C`mon,  it cheap IEM made in china


----------



## vovka

lohb said:


> Anyone ordered KS HDS1 from TomSale Co. on aliexpress ?



i've ordered a pair yesterday


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> This could be also QC and production difference... I`ve had two littlebit different sounding ED9`s, so no wonder if they have SQ difference within one series. C`mon,  it cheap IEM made in china


 

 True that they're both still coming from Shenzhen, China. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 .....probably the same company.
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.oiQn9I&id=522075485005&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail


----------



## mebaali

Just a heads-up!
  
 Ebay seller bessky has increased the price of HDS1 to $11 now (earlier it was $6.43).
  
 For those interested in buying these, better try from aliexpress seller Tomsale who is still selling them for $6.86.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-In-ear-with-Microphone-Mic-Earphones-HIFI-Wire-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo/32491201330.html
  
 or
  
 Try this ebay seller who is selling HDS1 for $6.54 (free intnl shipping included)
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-3-5mm-Mini-Metal-DIY-Headset-HD-Dynamic-pronunciation-Ear-Headphones-/391276193139?var=&hash=item5b19e0e573mggwpdmHpW2FcB3j0RgGVMg


----------



## EISENbricher

lohb said:


> Anyone ordered KS HDS1 from TomSale Co. on aliexpress ?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-In-ear-with-Microphone-Mic-Earphones-HIFI-Wire-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo/32491201330.html
> 
> Girlfriend lost 2 sets of earphones in 2 months...


 
 That seller (same as TomBuy)... I had bad experience two times. One of my ED9 has one dead side and the other one had channel imbalance. I advise buying from Official KZ shop... it costs ~$10-11 there.


----------



## Lohb

eisenbricher said:


> That seller (same as TomBuy)... I had bad experience two times. One of my ED9 has one dead side and the other one had channel imbalance. I advise buying from Official KZ shop... it costs ~$10-11 there.


 

 Cancelling now. TYVM.


----------



## playandwin

Just got my KZ ZS1 today and well I am little disapointed with bass performance. I just have them like 1 hour so I will write little bit deeper review later. I am just playing with EQ to get better bass.
  
 Here are some pictures:
http://imgur.com/a/bwLah


----------



## rjbell

eisenbricher said:


> That seller (same as TomBuy)... I had bad experience two times. One of my ED9 has one dead side and the other one had channel imbalance. I advise buying from Official KZ shop... it costs ~$10-11 there.


 

 Have you a link?


----------



## antoniosv90

rjbell said:


> Have you a link?


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HDS1-Aurora-Monitoring-In-Ear-Mini-Headphones-HiFi-Micro-Earphone-With-Microphone/32478450960.html

 Just ordered it before yesterday  this one has microphone.


----------



## CoiL

Just a reminder for everybody. Different folks, different strokes. HDS1 has different signature from ANV & ATE... more similar to ED9, ED10... but... it doesn`t mean it`s The Best KZ IEM


----------



## B9Scrambler

playandwin said:


> Just got my KZ ZS1 today and well I am little disapointed with bass performance. I just have them like 1 hour so I will write little bit deeper review later. I am just playing with EQ to get better bass.
> 
> Here are some pictures:
> http://imgur.com/a/bwLah




Great pics man. Hopefully bass improves with additional playtime. Is that memory wire I see ?  Hope not....hate that stuff, lol.


----------



## antoniosv90

I guess this was asked before but between ED9 and ED10, which one do you guys prefer? What are their main differences? I'm about to buy one but can't set my mind


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Just a reminder for everybody. Different folks, different strokes. HDS1 has different signature from ANV & ATE... more similar to ED9, ED10... but... it doesn`t mean it`s The Best KZ IEM


 

 Good call Coil, I'm waiting for my HDS1's and ZS1's but the ED9 has yet to be dethroned for me buy any of my other (ED10/11, ATE or ZN1) KZ's but never say never


----------



## raybone0566

I've had hds1 for a few days now & for price paid they are very good. Detail retrieval is good with good bass extension. Doesn't have the detail of ed9 but imo the bass is a bit better. For 11.00 anyone looking at these I highly recommend them.


----------



## CoiL

ray & podster, when You talk about ED9, compared to which nozzles being used?


----------



## raybone0566

It's 





coil said:


> ray & podster, when You talk about ED9, compared to which nozzles being used?


it's not the ones that came on them. It's the other filters, that's all I can tell you


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> ray & podster, when You talk about ED9, compared to which nozzles being used?


 

 I personally prefer the gold filters as they are a little brighter on the top side and have a clearer bass but that is my ears and we all know everyone hears it differently at least to some degree. For me you can almost hear a heavy hum with the brass filter which once again for me brings the bass forward and makes it the commanding signature.


----------



## rjbell

Thank you. I'm trying to message them but i keep getting a parameter error?! anyone else tried messaging them and getting the same error? Has anyone got a email address?


----------



## Podster

playandwin said:


> Just got my KZ ZS1 today and well I am little disapointed with bass performance. I just have them like 1 hour so I will write little bit deeper review later. I am just playing with EQ to get better bass.
> 
> Here are some pictures:
> http://imgur.com/a/bwLah


 

 Have you also tried amping them with some juice? Noticed with my ZN1 that when in passive mode they had a dark and murky sound but as soon as that amp kicked in they came alive across the board for me, as opposed to some other post I've seen where some did not like the amp mode I found it very clear and even across the board. Not sure how much or your preference in bass, I like mine honest and unfettered if possible and I'm truly hoping the ZS1's do not sound like passive mode ZN1's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They will really disappoint me if I have to use power and EQ to make them sound good


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> That seller (same as TomBuy)... I had bad experience two times. One of my ED9 has one dead side and the other one had channel imbalance. I advise buying from Official KZ shop... it costs ~$10-11 there.


 

 Man, out of all these KZ's I've bought off of AliExpress I feel very fortunate in the QC department. Only two problems I've had were one pair of my ED10's had a bad screen and the annoying double red right ear brass strain relief on one pair of ATE's other than that I have had no performance issues with any of my KZ's


----------



## hellfire8888

For a moment i thought it is made of metal or aluminium..turn out the build of KZ ED SE is better...


----------



## 1clearhead

playandwin said:


> Just got my KZ ZS1 today and well I am little disapointed with bass performance. I just have them like 1 hour so I will write little bit deeper review later. I am just playing with EQ to get better bass.
> 
> Here are some pictures:
> http://imgur.com/a/bwLah


 

 No! Please say it isn't so!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .....I was trying to decide between *KZ ZS1* or *iRock A8* (with detachable wires). But, finally pulled the trigger on the ZS1's yesterday.
  
 .....Oh well? Let's see how it plays out.


----------



## r2muchstuff

hellfire8888 said:


> For a moment i thought it is made of metal or aluminium..turn out the build of KZ ED SE is better...


 
 I have stated before, the best aspect of these are the fit and light weight make them great for use while doing yard work.  The extra bass is a benefit when using power tools.
  
 Might also be good for exercise etc.
  
 r2


----------



## EarTips

Yes I like the Bi-Amped sounds from the kz zn1


----------



## DangerClose

coil said:


> Just a reminder for everybody. Different folks, different strokes. HDS1 has different signature from ANV & ATE... more similar to ED9, ED10... but... it doesn`t mean it`s The Best KZ IEM


 
  
 How's the HDS1 soundstage size compared to ATE and whichever others?  I was going to try a couple less popular KZ models until reading their ss is "intimate" compared to ATE.


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

lohb said:


> Anyone ordered KS HDS1 from TomSale Co. on aliexpress ?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-In-ear-with-Microphone-Mic-Earphones-HIFI-Wire-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo/32491201330.html
> 
> Girlfriend lost 2 sets of earphones in 2 months...




Get another one! (girlfriend) ) lol


----------



## Dwenn

Can anyone please help me to choose between KZ ZS1 and Rock Zircon for Techno [Electronic] music ? Thanks a lot.
  
 Found these links: 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Original-Brand-Two-Unit-Driver-Headphones-Gaming-Headset-Hifi-DJ-Headphone-With-Microphone-fone/32493992233.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.11.7iqQuX&ws_ab_test=201556_8,201527_3_71_72_73_74_75,201560_1&af=85386&dp=6378_1446061726_338e005114c5c993f597c73d6932c34b
  
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rock-Luxury-Zircon-stereo-earphone-Headset-In-Ear-handsfree-Headphones-3-5mm-Earbuds-for-iPhone-Samsung/32371508014.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.iS2YVY&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb201527_4,searchweb201560_9


----------



## 1clearhead

dwenn said:


> Can anyone please help me to choose between KZ ZS1 and Rock Zircon for Techno [Electronic] music ? Thanks a lot.
> 
> Found these links:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Original-Brand-Two-Unit-Driver-Headphones-Gaming-Headset-Hifi-DJ-Headphone-With-Microphone-fone/32493992233.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.11.7iqQuX&ws_ab_test=201556_8,201527_3_71_72_73_74_75,201560_1&af=85386&dp=6378_1446061726_338e005114c5c993f597c73d6932c34b
> ...


 

 Go with the Zircon's.....great with EDM! ......Not enough reviews on the ZS1's, yet. I'm still waiting on mines to get here.


----------



## davi99

QKZ X36M any rewievs? Seems excellent build quailty. If sound closer to ed9 with gold nozzles, i could buy.


----------



## Ruben123

It's no real kz


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> Go with the Zircon's.....great with EDM! ......Not enough reviews on the ZS1's, yet. I'm still waiting on mines to get here.


 

 For $35 go for both
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I mean heck your still $2,864.00 less than a pair of K10 Pablo's and that's not even counting cost of impressions, shipping or taxes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now acquiring time from date of order may be very close though


----------



## sgl54

1clearhead said:


> No! Please say it isn't so!  :confused_face:  .....I was trying to decide between *KZ ZS1* or *iRock A8* (with detachable wires). But, finally pulled the trigger on the ZS1's yesterday.
> 
> .....Oh well? Let's see how it plays out.



I'm with you there. I will say the Zn1's took a lot longer than I thought to settle. The bass took a little longer than the mids and highs. Part of the issue was it's something you can mask with the eq. So the Sn1's with esentially the same drivers and cases will probably continue to improve over time. I love the Zn1's, hate the amp location but the sq is amazing and as with mpst Kz's well beyond the price point. The Zn1's are now the third kz I've ordered a back up unit for ( ed9, ate)


----------



## Ruben123

Anyone already have the ZS1?


----------



## sgl54

ruben123 said:


> Anyone already have the ZS1?



It looks like playandwin recieved a pair. The only feedback so far was initial disappointment in the bass response " first hour" of use. But I'm betting it will improve over time.


----------



## Ruben123

Cant wait to hear more!


----------



## sgl54

ruben123 said:


> Cant wait to hear more!



Me too. Although I have already ordered a set, of course it will be mid to late November before they're here. But I'd really like to know what they sound like. I waited till they dropped to $18 before I grabbed a set, so I'm late to the game.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ray & podster, when You talk about ED9, compared to which nozzles being used?
> ...


 
 Clearer bass with gold nozzles? I don`t think so
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Brighter top side - agree on that because with gold nozzles they have V-shaped signature.
 No hum with any of my ED9 pairs I have with brass filters and nor does it bring bass foward to my ears. 
 Guess we have different hearing, gear, taste, signature preference etc.
  


dangerclose said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Just a reminder for everybody. Different folks, different strokes. HDS1 has different signature from ANV & ATE... more similar to ED9, ED10... but... it doesn`t mean it`s The Best KZ IEM
> ...


 
 Yinjw wooden "IE800" 2014 open-back grills version but it has littlebit elevated bass in stock when not modded but not like basshead-IEM, still very enjoyable open pleasant signature.
 Out of KZ family, ATE and ANV followed by little gap with ED9 and ED10 have largest soundstage and "out of headstage" great layered imaging, IMSO. Haven`t heard HDS1 yet though, don`t bother to order it, been enjoying WOM-mod Yinjw much over all KZ`s I have, even FF-mod ATE (which is very very good but has little lack with cymbals presentation).


----------



## MaggotBasshead

I ordered the Ate, ED9 and a small case to keep one in from AliExpress a week or two ago
 I've checked the tracking loads and it says that they arrived in England 3 days ago BUT I HAVEN'T GOT THEMMMM!!!


----------



## Podster

@CoiL
 "Clearer bass with gold nozzles? I don`t think so
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Brighter top side - agree on that because with gold nozzles they have V-shaped signature.
 No hum with any of my ED9 pairs I have with brass filters and nor does it bring bass forward to my ears. 
 Guess we have different hearing, gear, taste, signature preference etc."
  
 I agree 100% Coil, I've always thought the main thing was we liked what we have and play it on what sounds best to us (our ears). I respect what you hear and how you hear it and that we can both hear things differently


----------



## Podster

maggotbasshead said:


> I ordered the Ate, ED9 and a small case to keep one in from AliExpress a week or two ago
> I've checked the tracking loads and it says that they arrived in England 3 days ago BUT I HAVEN'T GOT THEMMMM!!!


 

 It is of my belief that the actual recordings times (hours, minutes, dates, etc.) from AliEx are not real time by any means


----------



## raybone0566

podster said:


> @CoiL
> "Clearer bass with gold nozzles? I don`t think so:rolleyes:  Brighter top side - agree on that because with gold nozzles they have V-shaped signature.
> No hum with any of my ED9 pairs I have with brass filters and nor does it bring bass forward to my ears.
> Guess we have different hearing, gear, taste, signature preference etc."
> ...


 I couldn't agree more. That's what makes us unique as individuals. What appeals to one may now be another's cup of tea. What's even nicer is that we can disagree but still be gentleman about it.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Well guys
Got a little problem here
My Ed9 and Ate did come today (my neighbour had them)
I've been listening to them both and have found a decent seal.
I just looked inside my ED9 and the right earphone hasn't got the little gauze type thing inside when you take off the filter (gold and brass) (the left side has it)
I'm not sure what to do as I hadn't noticed any sound difference and I dont really want to send them back.
Will it affect the sound in any way? Or anything at all?




Need helpppp


----------



## B9Scrambler

maggotbasshead said:


> Well guys
> Got a little problem here
> My Ed9 and Ate did come today (my neighbour had them)
> I've been listening to them both and have found a decent seal.
> ...




I think you'll be fine. I have a pair with the mesh and a pair without and they sound the same. Kind of a major oversight though...


----------



## davi99

maggotbasshead said:


> Well guys
> Got a little problem here
> My Ed9 and Ate did come today (my neighbour had them)
> I've been listening to them both and have found a decent seal.
> ...


 
 oh no... that thing is '' air barrier '' it makes sound clear by reducing incoming air pump from subwoofer.


----------



## CADCAM

maggotbasshead said:


> Well guys
> Got a little problem here
> My Ed9 and Ate did come today (my neighbour had them)
> I've been listening to them both and have found a decent seal.
> ...


 
 I'd call that a driver screen. Probably should be there at least to protect the driver and defuse the sound a bit.


----------



## kaiteck

hi guys are zs1 and zn1 headphones using the same audio driver?


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I'd call that a driver screen. Probably should be there at least to protect the driver and defuse the sound a bit.


 

 Guess I need to read up on the KZ lineup more, here I thought the screens were for keeping foreign debris (dust, dirt and the ever present ear wax) out of their iem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had know idea they were for anything to do with sound of the iem


----------



## sgl54

kaiteck said:


> hi guys are zs1 and zn1 headphones using the same audio driver?


That's the impression I've gotten , but haven't seen it stated out right. All things concidered I believe so. I hope so the driver combination in the Zn1's is very well matched, the bass notes are present but bleed into or color the mid range. The high's don't get lost or over power. They are nicely balanced. The only concern is with the amp/eq in passive mode (off) the bass is prominent.


----------



## CADCAM

OK things I've read about the ZN1 & ZS1~
  
 ZN1 may have the channels wired reversed (deal killer for me)
 ZN1 has a lot of noise while using amp (also a deal killer)
 ZN1 does not work with some equipment in passive mode (I listen to cd's not ripped files)
 ZN1 wiring is not logical for wearing them around (not an issue as I'm always sitting??)
  
 ZS1 is still not available 
 ZS1 lacks bass
 ZS1 does not sound like ZN1 in passive mode
 ZS1 may have channels wired in reverse
  
  
 Please advise...


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Guess I need to read up on the KZ lineup more, here I thought the screens were for keeping foreign debris (dust, dirt and the ever present ear wax) out of their iem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are prob right but I'm thinking along with protecting the driver maybe it would defuse some of the higher frequencies like driver screens on tweeters???
  
 Any tech guys want to chime in?
  
 btw I checked and both my ED9's have screens...


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> OK things I've read about the ZN1 & ZS1~
> 
> ZN1 may have the channels wired reversed (deal killer for me)
> ZN1 has a lot of noise while using amp (also a deal killer)
> ...



The Zn1's I have are wired correctly left to right and without imbalance.
Second this is the first I've heard about an issue with noise ( microphonics? Feedback?) Both J haven't experienced.
Third I always listen in amped/eq mode but always turn on phones second after player ( not sure why just do) and there is always music. The source equipment I typically use are, Fiio x3 gen 2, Xduoo x2, Creative Zen II gps and an Asus Zenpad 8 with dts hd sound. No issues with any.
Fourth, the wonderful placememt of the amp/eq. Not an issue sitting and once you figure a method to attach a reasonable shirt clip it nor much of a problem but not suitible for heavier exercise but most anything else.
My Sn1 order is still a couple weeks out so do have feedback there for you. 
In regards to the Zn1's I ordered my pair early and have had them for quite awhile so if there is an issue with different batches ( QC problems ?) I don't know. The biggest thing of note is the Zn1's have the longest burn in of any iems I've owned with the greatest change. If the drivers etc are the same for the Sn1's it's something to bear in mind. A final point, I have purchased duplicates of Kz's I like well enough to have a backup. The Ed9, Ate and the Zn1'.. Hope this helps.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Hey guys, just wanted to check in and share some impressions of the new KZ lineup. 

KZ HDS1- Probably my favorite KZ to date. Best way to summarize it is to say it's a sleeker and better fitting KZ ED9. Balanced and entertaining sound for the price of a happy meal. Don't doubt it, be all about it! 

KZ-ED3 (micro driver) - I'm not sure if this is the same earphone as the old ed3. I haven't had time to compare or make graphs on them. I will say it has similarities to the HDS1. Warm tilted midrange and tuning that is hard to fault. I did notice the new ed3 cable is slightly beefier than the HDS1. 

KZ ZN1- After getting scammed by Aliexpress (turns out a particular seller sent me a pre-production sample) I finally received a genuine pair that functions much better than my initial impressions. It is definitely a unique approach to earphones. I find it fun to use the amplifier to adjust the bass and treble settings and can adjust them easily depending on what genre of music I'm listening to. The biggest drawback is the weight that the inline amplifier puts on the cable. It makes wearing them feel awkward.

KZ ZS1-I think this is going to be a big winner for those who find the treble of the ED9 treble to be too emphasised. They are a warm and bassy sounding earphone with excellent dynamics. These will work fabulously with modern genres of music. I really like the fitment and styling of them. The memory wire works well in combination with the housing shape (and I usually despise memory wire) 

If you guys have any questions about the new models, or graphs, I'll do my best to help you out. 

Dude, I'm not only a fan boy, I'm also a voluntary spokesman!i wouldn't do it if I didn't think KZ is one of the best deals in headphones! 

KZ rocks!


----------



## sgl54

hisoundfi said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to check in and share some impressions of the new KZ lineup.
> 
> KZ HDS1- Probably my favorite KZ to date. Best way to summarize it is to say it's a sleeker and better fitting KZ ED9. Balanced and entertaining sound for the price of a happy meal. Don't doubt it, be all about it!
> 
> ...



Glad you got the issue with the Zn1's sorted, I think they're an exceptional Iem.
Since you have both the Zn1's and Sn1's I have a couple questions if you don't mind. I was wondering if you could duplicate the sound signature of the Sn1's with Zn1's and what those setting ended up being. I have the Zn1's and the Sn1's on order but seemed like it would give me pretty clear idea of what the Sn1's will sound like. Second did your Sn1's come with the same accessories as the Zn1's? Somehow the memory wire on the Sn1's slipped by me, they're always a mixed blessing but sounds if if that to will be fine. Thanks in advance.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Hisoundfi Great impressions! I'm really looking forward to the arrival of my HDS1, the revised ED3 2015, and ZS1. The ED3 is one of my fav KZs, so if they just refined that same sound signature I would be thrilled.


----------



## DangerClose

hisoundfi said:


> KZ HDS1- Probably my favorite KZ to date. Best way to summarize it is to say it's a sleeker and better fitting KZ ED9. Balanced and entertaining sound for the price of a happy meal. Don't doubt it, be all about it!
> 
> KZ-ED3 (micro driver) - I'm not sure if this is the same earphone as the old ed3. I haven't had time to compare or make graphs on them. I will say it has similarities to the HDS1. Warm tilted midrange and tuning that is hard to fault. I did notice the new ed3 cable is slightly beefier than the HDS1.





> If you guys have any questions about the new models, or graphs, I'll do my best to help you out.


 
  
 Still trying to find out how big the soundstage is on the HDS1 compared to other KZ's like the ATE and ED9.  The old ED3 was also on my radar, but that's one of the ones I read has an "intimate" soundstage.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

b9scrambler said:


> @Hisoundfi Great impressions! I'm really looking forward to the arrival of my HDS1, the revised ED3 2015, and ZS1. The ED3 is one of my fav KZs, so if they just refined that same sound signature I would be thrilled.


 
 I reviewed the HDS1 on my new site: http://audiobudget.iagucool.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=HDS1
 In short, they are pretty poor.
 As you can see on that site, I've just started writing the reviews, I still have more than 20 earphones in my drawer to write their reviews, and about 24 earphones are yet to arrive.


----------



## eaglearrow

igor eisberg said:


> I reviewed the HDS1 on my new site: http://audiobudget.iagucool.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=HDS1
> In short, they are pretty poor.
> As you can see on that site, I've just started writing the reviews, I still have more than 20 earphones in my drawer to write their reviews, and about 24 earphones are yet to arrive.


 

 Igor, just went through your review. I see you found the sound volume levels too low..  I may be wrong, but i'm wondering if there was some kind of a quality issue with your HDS1? i dont own one, but other initial impression seemed promising (IEM)


----------



## Igor Eisberg

eaglearrow said:


> Igor, just went through your review. I see you found the sound volume levels too low..  I'm may be wrong, but i'm wondering if there was some kind of a quality issue with your HDS1? i dont own one, but other initial impression seemed promising (IEM)


 

 You're right, I'm not sure what happened the last time I tested them, even though I tested on my phone and my PC (has a sound card with headphone amplifier). They are actually extremely good. I'll have to rewrite the review from scratch.
 They are very very good actually. Amazing punchy bass and precise mids. I'll fix that soon enough.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

cadcam said:


> You are prob right but I'm thinking along with protecting the driver maybe it would defuse some of the higher frequencies like driver screens on tweeters???


 
 ****!
 I've noticed that the highs on my ED9 are quite harsh and I don't like it
 So far the ED9's have really failed to impress me
 I need to find a better seal


----------



## CoiL

maggotbasshead said:


> ****!
> I've noticed that the highs on my ED9 are quite harsh and I don't like it
> So far the ED9's have really failed to impress me
> I need to find a better seal


 
 They need some time to settle but imo they are also "on the edge" of harsh (I`m sensitive to treble). If You don`t have ATE, then get it 
  
 Btw, got JVC spiral dot tips (smallest size) and they are very very good tips for ATE and ED9, one of the top-3 tips I have out of my collection (17 different tips).


----------



## MaggotBasshead

coil said:


> They need some time to settle but imo they are also "on the edge" of harsh (I`m sensitive to treble). If You don`t have ATE, then get it
> 
> Btw, got JVC spiral dot tips (smallest size) and they are very very good tips for ATE and ED9, one of the top-3 tips I have out of my collection (17 different tips).


 
 Yeah I have ATE
 I'll check them out


----------



## MaggotBasshead

coil said:


> They need some time to settle but imo they are also "on the edge" of harsh (I`m sensitive to treble). If You don`t have ATE, then get it
> 
> Btw, got JVC spiral dot tips (smallest size) and they are very very good tips for ATE and ED9, one of the top-3 tips I have out of my collection (17 different tips).


 
 Dude from what I've seen you can only get those tips from Japan


----------



## Lohb

maggotbasshead said:


> ****!
> I've noticed that the highs on my ED9 are quite harsh and I don't like it
> So far the ED9's have really failed to impress me
> I need to find a better seal


 

 Are you using gold or matt brass nozzle ?


----------



## eaglearrow

igor eisberg said:


> You're right, I'm not sure what happened the last time I tested them, even though I tested on my phone and my PC (has a sound card with headphone amplifier). They are actually extremely good. I'll have to rewrite the review from scratch.
> They are very very good actually. Amazing punchy bass and precise mids. I'll fix that soon enough.


 
 haha.. So there you go, one more happy HDS1 owner.. cheers


----------



## sgl54

I was wondering what if any "burn in" any of you do with your Kz. And with or with out which Kz's benefit from usage and how much. I haven't been doing this, but found a marked difference over time with my Zn1's. My only other experience with a huge inprovememt was with a set hybrids. I hear this can be a touchy subject but would br interested in your views specific to a particular Kz model. Thanks


----------



## davi99

ordered ed2, pc adapter, and 1 pair of eartips today.



 all of em, 6.99.


----------



## 1clearhead

davi99 said:


> ordered ed2, pc adapter, and 1 pair of eartips today.
> 
> 
> 
> all of em, 6.99.


 

 Please give us some impressions on the ED2 once you get them.


----------



## leobigfield

@davi99 Could you please post the tips link?


----------



## davi99

1clearhead said:


> Please give us some impressions on the ED2 once you get them.


 
  
 i think it will take more than a month, but of course, i can compare it to ed9 once i get ed2 


leobigfield said:


> @davi99 Could you please post the tips link?


 
 here you go;

 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Pair-Replacement-Earbud-Ear-Tips-for-All-Models-of-Headphones/32450415255.html



*note: i dont tried them since i dont get them yet. i dont take responsibilty about eligiblity of tips into kz earphones.*


----------



## davi99

hey.

 small size ed9 eartips are too small for my ear, and medium size is too big. what do you recommend me? i want eartips with hard material used inside and soft material on the outside, thus it wont twist inside of my earcanal and not uncomfortable either.


----------



## SWLIU

cadcam said:


> OK things I've read about the ZN1 & ZS1~
> 
> ZN1 may have the channels wired reversed (deal killer for me)
> ZN1 has a lot of noise while using amp (also a deal killer)
> ...




Just received my zs1, 7 days from when I ordered from amazon and shipped to California.

Bass is not lacking as long as I push the nozzles deeper into my ears.

I like the sound better than zn1's passive mode, which I returned because of the amp design and channel reversal.

The channels on my zs1 are not reversed.

However, my biggest issue with zs1 is with the fit, specifically the memory wire. After many practices I found the best way to wear them, but even that requires a bit of adjustment every time I listen to them.


----------



## broSniper

swliu said:


> Just received my zs1, 7 days from when I ordered from amazon and shipped to California.
> 
> Bass is not lacking as long as I push the nozzles deeper into my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 What's the best fir tor the ZS1?
  
 I've seen a photo where the cable goes up and around the ear, and I thought they could be used with a 'standard' fit, but I am not sure anymore.
  
 And are they comfortable to wear?
  
 I was going to buy them but I have some doubts about their desing


----------



## sgl54

swliu said:


> Just received my zs1, 7 days from when I ordered from amazon and shipped to California.
> 
> Bass is not lacking as long as I push the nozzles deeper into my ears.
> 
> ...



Somehow I'd missed the fact they had mem wire until the other day. I haven't had great luch with it. So does it look as if the ear pieces are the same ( zs1 / zn1) ? Glad they don't sound like the Zn1's in passive. I fortunately had good luck with the Zn1's and was hoping the signature aligned at some point but were simple to wear. You know no fuss no muss easy to put in and just plus and play, doesn't quite sound like that. Looking forward to hear what you think of them.


----------



## SWLIU

brosniper said:


> What's the best fir tor the ZS1?
> 
> I've seen a photo where the cable goes up and around the ear, and I thought they could be used with a 'standard' fit, but I am not sure anymore.
> 
> ...




I don't think you can wear them cable-down style because of the memory wire. Cable-up and around the ear is the only way. The large housing and the position of the nozzles don't make them very comfortable to wear if you have smaller ears. The memory wire does have one advantage, i.e., making them very secure when you exercise.


----------



## leobigfield

davi99 said:


> here you go;
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Pair-Replacement-Earbud-Ear-Tips-for-All-Models-of-Headphones/32450415255.htm
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, they look identical to the klipsch oval tips, the most comfortable tips I've ever used. Only problem is that they are very small bore so won't fit everything. Will order one and see.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## CADCAM

So I've had my HDS1 for awhile now and can say without a doubt I hate the cable, worst microphonics of any of my Kz's. The sound though is excellent... and I still have the stock tips on them! Never even felt the need to try another and that is most definitely a first for me. 
 I think the sound is similar to the ED9 but HDS1 has something in its presentation (especially of percussion) that I may enjoy more than the ED9's. Listening to Bela Fleck and the Flecktones ~ Live at the Quick I was really impressed with the way everything was being presented but felt the ED9 might have a bit more refinement overall. I can't believe I'm talking about a 6 and 12 dollar headphone!
  
 At any rate the HDS1 is amazing for 6 bucks and the fit and comfort are phenomenal as well. I can't see anyone complaining about this hp as it punches so far above its price point. The only issue for me is that freaking cable...


----------



## Hisoundfi

cadcam said:


> So I've had my HDS1 for awhile now and can say without a doubt I hate the cable, worst microphonics of any of my Kz's. The sound though is excellent... and I still have the stock tips on them! Never even felt the need to try another and that is most definitely a first for me.
> I think the sound is similar to the ED9 but HDS1 has something in its presentation (especially of percussion) that I may enjoy more than the ED9's. Listening to Bela Fleck and the Flecktones ~ Live at the Quick I was really impressed with the way everything was being presented but felt the ED9 might have a bit more refinement overall. I can't believe I'm talking about a 6 and 12 dollar headphone!
> 
> At any rate the HDS1 is amazing for 6 bucks and the fit and comfort are phenomenal as well. I can't see anyone complaining about this hp as it punches so far above its price point. The only issue for me is that freaking cable...


 
 +1, I agree with everything you've said
  
 I go over the ear with my KZ HDS1. It works great and eliminates the cable noise


----------



## ForceMajeure

Have someone measured the KZ HDS1 ?


----------



## 1clearhead

davi99 said:


> hey.
> 
> small size ed9 eartips are too small for my ear, and medium size is too big. what do you recommend me? i want eartips with hard material used inside and soft material on the outside, thus it wont twist inside of my earcanal and not uncomfortable either.


 

 KZ spiral gel tips (that come with the ED10/11). .....Hope this helps!
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.5.ZJPKBd&scm=1007.10009.14918.100200300000001&id=45557399094&pvid=34771761-1299-4acc-9389-a49b3dfa4bbf
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-3-Size-In-Ear-Bud-Earphone-Covers-Headphones-Gel-Tip-Case-Replacement-Silicone-Earbuds/32416239335.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.1.0Jh8mA&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb0_0,searchweb201560_9


----------



## davi99

1clearhead said:


> KZ spiral gel tips (that come with the ED10/11). .....Hope this helps!
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.5.ZJPKBd&scm=1007.10009.14918.100200300000001&id=45557399094&pvid=34771761-1299-4acc-9389-a49b3dfa4bbf
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-3-Size-In-Ear-Bud-Earphone-Covers-Headphones-Gel-Tip-Case-Replacement-Silicone-Earbuds/32416239335.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.1.0Jh8mA&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb0_0,searchweb201560_9


 
 thanks! will buy them if the eartips i mentioned above isnt good for my ears.


 btw, what do you guys think about this product? i mean this type eartips;

 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-1pair-super-comfortable-sponge-isolation-headphone-Tips-headset-memory-foam-sponge-earphone-ear-pads/32477744702.html?s=p


----------



## kaiteck

davi99 said:


> thanks! will buy them if the eartips i mentioned above isnt good for my ears.
> 
> 
> btw, what do you guys think about this product? i mean this type eartips;
> ...


 
 KZ ate comes with them. I initially don't really like it but they are actually better after I got use to them. They get dirty and spoil easily though.


----------



## 1clearhead

davi99 said:


> thanks! will buy them if the eartips i mentioned above isnt good for my ears.
> 
> 
> *btw, what do you guys think about this product? i mean this type eartips;*
> ...


 

 ......As others mention here, it might take a little time to get use to them. But, you have to be careful, they are a little bigger than the average size when compared with silicone tips. For example, I use medium tips, and it happens to be that the medium round sponge tips are a little too big and uncomfortable for me. Even after a while wearing them, they tend to pop-out?!


----------



## CoiL

davi99 said:


> hey.
> 
> small size ed9 eartips are too small for my ear, and medium size is too big. what do you recommend me? i want eartips with hard material used inside and soft material on the outside, thus it wont twist inside of my earcanal and not uncomfortable either.


 
 You could try also these:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251455352309?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Huawei honor IEM tips would be also good choice but I don`t know from where to get them separately.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top-quality-Huawei-Honor-3-5mm-earphone-Ear-Headphones-headset-with-Mic-retail-box-for-iphone/32278105464.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.59aLMR&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb0_0,searchweb201560_9
  
 Those dual-flanges mentioned before are too soft for what You are looking for and too small bore that affects sound in bad way.
  
 Sponge tips for ED9 is hard to get right fit if brass nozzle is being used due to small breathing hole on nozzle.
  
 Edit:
  
 JVC Spiral dot in MS size might also fit You 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-JVC-EP-FX9-Spiral-Dot-Replacement-Ear-Tips-6-pcs-Black-S-MS-M-ML-L-Japan-/131640696097?var=&hash=item1ea6659d21mmjSKL3XINSj6W7fRb0f6ag


----------



## mebaali

After trying variety of tips for ED10, settled with Sony Ericsson's MH1 medium sized tips. While I like listening to somewhat different sound signature provided by ED10s (compared to other KZs in my small collection, EDSE appears closest match), it's treble just doesn't seems to be getting tamed (after so many hours of usage). I am ending up getting fatigued way too easily with these (mere 30 minutes of usage). It looks like I might not be the right candidate for this type of music signature.

OTOH, ATE with JVC spiral dot tips (large size) gives me brilliant listening experience for long hours with the same music setup.

(My music set-up - Fiio X1 LO, Topping NX1 Lowgain, MP3/AACs 320, 256 kbps respectively)


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> ATE with JVC spiral dot tips (large size) gives me brilliant listening experience for long hours with the same music setup.


 
 +1
  
 I also got JVC Spiral Dot tips little time ago and they are perfect for ATE imo (I`m using smallest ones). Although sometimes when I don`t use IEM`s for a week or so, then I go for white small super-soft silicones I`m using currently with WOM-mod, they are ultra-comfy in ear-canal.
 Soon I will receive some more tips and then I should have 18-19 different tips in my collection and will do short tip-rolling through KZ IEM`s again. Those Spiral Dots and white ones are certainly on top-3 I believe.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

lohb said:


> Are you using gold or matt brass nozzle ?


 
 Gold


----------



## Lohb

maggotbasshead said:


> Gold


 

 Audio source hardware and music format/bit rate ?


----------



## davi99

coil said:


> You could try also these:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251455352309?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> ...


 
 i want hard material inside of eartips. soft outside. i mean, are you sure eartips you mentioned above are match my needs? they may be use different color inside and make you think they are harder material. i mean,  they may use different color inside of eartips just to make it look good.


----------



## fluxcore

Just received some EDSEs to replace my broken pair (ripped at the split to the L/R), and very interested to see that the split now has reinforcement, so hopefully this pair will last longer. Was happy with them, but generally only used for podcasts, didn't really like them with music that much.
  
 Also picked up a pair of HDS1s, quite like the sound out of them so far! Cables and joins seem quite a bit flimsier than the EDSEs though. I expect them to bite the dust fairly easily. Oh right, the supplied flanges don't even fit them though, that's pretty stupid.


----------



## raybone0566

Received my zs1 today, don't really have high hopes for these. Tried the supplied silicone tips with x5ii and tuning just sounds off. Switched to comply tips and not much difference. If anyone has received theirs and has any ideas, post them


----------



## ajaxender

raybone0566 said:


> Received my zs1 today, don't really have high hopes for these. Tried the supplied silicone tips with x5ii and tuning just sounds off. Switched to comply tips and not much difference. If anyone has received theirs and has any ideas, post them


 
  
 The problem is the nozzle. Its wide but the hole for the sound to come out is much smaller. While I quite like the stock tips (for fit), the core is too stiff and so it creates a little sound chamber in there. I can see complys doing this too. Its very questionable design.
  
 Try using more normal 'hybrid' style tips - ones where the core sort of merges into the tip. Fit them on as far as they'll go. It definitely helped. I'm going to try smaller bore hybrids (sony ones) tonight, given how small the sound hole is I don't think wide bores make much sense. 
  
 The tuning is still quite... interesting. I'm intending to describe it later on but for now, it almost seems designed for movies - vocals are great and sub-bass is impressive, but it doesn't really work for a lot of music I listen to. Still, when it does, it REALLY does.


----------



## sgl54

raybone0566 said:


> Received my zs1 today, don't really have high hopes for these. Tried the supplied silicone tips with x5ii and tuning just sounds off. Switched to comply tips and not much difference. If anyone has received theirs and has any ideas, post them


 
 That's not what I expected nor wanted to hear.  From Alexenders comment, I'm wondering if they are different from the Zn1's. The Zn1 screen measures 5.25mm but the outside diameter is 6.16mm  and 4.95mm where the tips grab on so imagine the mean inside diameter is more like 4.75mm. Not sure how that related to the Sn1's as I'm still waiting for my set. On the Zn's I am using the Blue  turbo 'wide' bore tips 9 the red turbo spirals had a much smaller opening) which puts the screen recess at 1.75mm, which isn't much. Maybe they'll help. The blue are Kz's but ordered separately.


----------



## 1clearhead

raybone0566 said:


> Received my zs1 today, don't really have high hopes for these. Tried the supplied silicone tips with x5ii and tuning just sounds off. Switched to comply tips and not much difference. If anyone has received theirs and has any ideas, post them


 
  
 Hopefully, I'll find a solution once I get mines this week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


ajaxender said:


> The problem is the nozzle. Its wide but the hole for the sound to come out is much smaller. While I quite like the stock tips (for fit), the core is too stiff and so it creates a little sound chamber in there. I can see complys doing this too. Its very questionable design.
> 
> Try using more normal 'hybrid' style tips - ones where the core sort of merges into the tip. Fit them on as far as they'll go. It definitely helped. I'm going to try smaller bore hybrids (sony ones) tonight, given how small the sound hole is I don't think wide bores make much sense.
> 
> The tuning is still quite... interesting. I'm intending to describe it later on but for now, it almost seems designed for movies - vocals are great and sub-bass is impressive, but it doesn't really work for a lot of music I listen to. Still, when it does, it REALLY does.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip!


----------



## raybone0566

Alexander makes some good points. The music sounds like it's coming from a chamber to me. i did try some different tips, softer stem, more flexible, and i inserted the monitors as far as I could in my ear. Results were better but not by much. There's 4 vents on each, I wonder if closing off a few might help.


----------



## sgl54

Well instead of measuring the Zn1's I should have walked out to the mail box. Sitting inside nestled among the letters we're my Sn1's!
 Packaging was different than any other Kz. Outer box was black paper of a design to aid some shock resistance. Inside another black heavy paper box with two (2) bags of tips red and blue turbines. Inside that the Sn1's inside a small KZ black zipped pouch. I wasn't expecting that but matches the units I bought for my other Kz's. The ear piece while looking the same as the Zn1's aren't as the have a small gold tone nozzle inserted with a very small aperture (1.19mm approx.) Threw them on with the mounted medium red turbines (small opening) and the first thing that struck me was 1.) their  lack of base2.) the memory wire is going to be an issue. Put on a set of blue turbines, some help with the bass but fit is going to be an issue. So that's where I stand, this may take a bit, but I'm not as enthused as I could be and I'm not ready to start the process tonight. But I am amazed how quickly they arrived it was 9 days to California.


----------



## Hisoundfi

The ZS1 is bass in your face tuning. It's two different speakers playing two different frequencies. I would compare it to two bookshelf speakers handling the mids and highs, and a high powered 15 inch subwoofer to handle the lows. These are definitely a bass head's delight. 

It reminds me of my days with car audio. It's got that sub woofer boom that I can't help it enjoy with modern genres of music.


----------



## Chief Stringer

hisoundfi said:


> The ZS1 is bass in your face tuning. It's two different speakers playing two different frequencies. I would compare it to two bookshelf speakers handling the mids and highs, and a high powered 15 inch subwoofer to handle the lows. These are definitely a bass head's delight.
> 
> It reminds me of my days with car audio. It's got that sub woofer boom that I can't help it enjoy with modern genres of music.




Almost sold 

How are the mids and highs compared too say the ed9s? Mainly as far as vocals are concerned?


----------



## ajaxender

hisoundfi said:


> The ZS1 is bass in your face tuning. It's two different speakers playing two different frequencies. I would compare it to two bookshelf speakers handling the mids and highs, and a high powered 15 inch subwoofer to handle the lows. These are definitely a bass head's delight.
> 
> It reminds me of my days with car audio. It's got that sub woofer boom that I can't help it enjoy with modern genres of music.


 
  
 Yup, thats exactly what I get. Bass is a little slow to work with everything but on certain songs it has blown me away. That rumble!
  


chief stringer said:


> Almost sold
> 
> How are the mids and highs compared too say the ed9s? Mainly as far as vocals are concerned?


  
 I can't say compared to ED9 (yet, on the way along with a micro ring) but I think the vocals are very well presented. In fact surprisingly so, given the bass. They're not intimate but they're powerful, both genders. As for highs, theres a small amount of crispness in the lower treble but quite smooth and rolled off otherwise, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Hisoundfi

chief stringer said:


> Almost sold
> 
> How are the mids and highs compared too say the ed9s? Mainly as far as vocals are concerned?


The ZS1 is far off in terms of overall fidelity. 

ZS1 is a good bass head phone. It can't touch the ED9 when talking about overall neutrality or presentation. 

ZS1 is a bass head earphone.


----------



## sgl54

hisoundfi said:


> The ZS1 is far off in terms of overall fidelity.
> 
> ZS1 is a good bass head phone. It can't touch the ED9 when talking about overall neutrality or presentation.
> 
> ZS1 is a bass head earphone.



So far (after letting run for a few hours) it does seem to have a bass forward signature. The mids and highs while present are a little veiled. I'm using the red turbine tip ( started with the larger orafice blues ) I was thinking it may tame the bass tilting the signature. There wasn't a difference so it's still a hunt for the correct tips. I'll post as I go along.


----------



## CoiL

davi99 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > You could try also these:
> ...


 

 I have them all except Philips UE tips. Huawei honor are stiff inside. Those CX300 are softer inside but still firm enough. Spiral dots are also quite strong shaped from inside.
 For Your specific requirement I would go with spiral dots - they are HQ and great sounding and comfy tips on market.


----------



## iLovePanda265

Anyone heard about the ED9 Youth Edition (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-Youth-Version-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/32521828496.html)? Are they any different than the original?


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> The ZS1 is far off in terms of overall fidelity.
> 
> ZS1 is a good bass head phone. It can't touch the ED9 when talking about overall neutrality or presentation.
> 
> ZS1 is a bass head earphone.


 

 Vince, have you compared these to the VJJB's? They are touted as bass leading as well but with clear mids & highs?


----------



## raybone0566

podster said:


> Vince, have you compared these to the VJJB's? They are touted as bass leading as well but with clear mids & highs?


I haven't had much luck with the VJJB's, what tips are you guys using. Also spent a few more hours with ZS1 this morning. Pretty good with acoustic music, I just don't think the tuning is right for an earphone


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> Vince, have you compared these to the VJJB's? They are touted as bass leading as well but with clear mids & highs?


 






 Podster I have the VJJB's. One of my best surprises, when I went on a summer cheap-Phones buying spree. Very Nice, similar to KZ ATE EQ, a Tad less Bass, more controlled and Faster, with tons more definition, Much more Punchy Mids and Highs as well. But still on the Dark side of things.
  
 JMHO
  
 Great Phones for the $$$. I keep them in my Rotation. They replaced the ATE.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> Podster I have the VJJB's. One of my best surprises, when I went on a summer cheap-Phones buying spree. Very Nice, similar to KZ ATE EQ, a Tad less Bass, more controlled and Faster, with tons more definition, Much more Punchy Mids and Highs as well. But still on the Dark side of things.
> 
> JMHO
> 
> ...


 

 Well I wanted to try a couple other cheap iem's while getting the youth edition ED9's and have been curious on the VJJB's and like you said I've not lost the ship for a possible bad lifeboat in regards to their price
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THX Twin
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 raybo, keep rolling tips brother
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 If you want to hear funny the wife said to me are you really going to by something that goes in your ear and says VJJ on it


----------



## aaDee

ilovepanda265 said:


> Anyone heard about the ED9 Youth Edition (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-Youth-Version-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/32521828496.html)? Are they any different than the original?


 

 Youth edition?? They look the same as before. I think its just a gimmick by the seller as new batch of KZ iem are hitting the market.


----------



## Chief Stringer

hisoundfi said:


> The ZS1 is far off in terms of overall fidelity.
> 
> ZS1 is a good bass head phone. It can't touch the ED9 when talking about overall neutrality or presentation.
> 
> ZS1 is a bass head earphone.




If they have half decent male vocals and alot of bass im thinking they might be suitable for my 90s hip hop collection


----------



## sgl54

chief stringer said:


> If they have half decent male vocals and alot of bass im thinking they might be suitable for my 90s hip hop collection



I can agree, I ran my Sn1's all night and there is some improvement. I hear the vocals coming together both male and female, still bass forward but they're headed in the right direction.


----------



## davi99

ilovepanda265 said:


> Anyone heard about the ED9 Youth Edition (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-Youth-Version-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/32521828496.html)? Are they any different than the original?


 

 interesting. i think its same as normal ed9. but looks cool, so anyone who thinks gonna buy ed9, can buy this youth version. further information will be welcomed.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Thanks everyone, given everyones comments ill probaly get myself a pair of zs1s at some stage, given the price i can get them for, itll probaly be fine if they are not a good as the ed9 in mids and highs, im not much of a purist although i do appreicate that kinda of sound from time to time (guess i have the ed9s for that though), quantity aside, anyone got any comments on the quality of bass? (Extension, tightness, sub / midbass balance)


----------



## Podster

aadee said:


> Youth edition?? They look the same as before. I think its just a gimmick by the seller as new batch of KZ iem are hitting the market.


 

 What, come on now I mean they do have the all new SUPER BOWL tuning nozzles
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That is different than my current ED9's and they seem to have a richer silver shell/chassis
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the price and what I know of the original ED9's I'm taking the KZ plunge yet again


----------



## aaDee

podster said:


> What, come on now I mean they do have the all new SUPER BOWL tuning nozzles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 L
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




O
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




L


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> Well I wanted to try a couple other cheap iem's while getting the youth edition ED9's and have been curious on the VJJB's and like you said I've not lost the ship for a possible bad lifeboat in regards to their price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 With the exception of that Earmax ER610 I really haven't heard an AWFUL cheap earphone Yet. Some are really generic or non-descript but most of them are decent or have some unique or redeeming Quality.
  
 The Asian manufacturers CONTINUE to raise the Bar on Price V.S. performance.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> With the exception of that Earmax ER610 I really haven't heard an AWFUL cheap earphone Yet. Some are really generic or non-descript but most of them are decent or have some unique or redeeming Quality.
> 
> The Asian manufacturers CONTINUE to raise the Bar on Price V.S. performance.
> 
> ...


 

 Heck I barely hit $25 on both the youth ED9 and VJJ's so what else can I throw in this basket that is Twin approved (and that I don't have already like Zircon's and over half the KZ lineup)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 VJJVJJVJJVJJVJJ


----------



## MaggotBasshead

lohb said:


> Audio source hardware and music format/bit rate ?


 
 I mainly use my Samsung Galaxy Alpha for my earphones
 Pretty much all my music is 320kbps mp3
 But on my PC I have the CREATIVE Sound Blaster 5.1 (I haven't really used them on that yet though)


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Okay
 After my purchase of the ATE, ED9 and the ZN1 (Yet to arrive) I am addicted!
 I'm thinking of getting HDS1, Rock Zircons, Xaomi Poston 2 or 3 and ZS1
 I think they should be very good purchases


----------



## 1clearhead

aadee said:


> Youth edition?? They look the same as before. I think its just a gimmick by the seller as new batch of KZ iem are hitting the market.


 
  
 +1 ....nothing looks different about them.


----------



## eaglearrow

ilovepanda265 said:


> Anyone heard about the ED9 Youth Edition (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-Youth-Version-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/32521828496.html)? Are they any different than the original?


 

  
  
  
 Is it just me.., or does this thing really look like a Manned Turret..?? Too much COD for me i guess.. lol


----------



## Hisoundfi

podster said:


> Vince, have you compared these to the VJJB's? They are touted as bass leading as well but with clear mids & highs?


they're similar going off memory. 

I'll try to do a comparison later


----------



## Hisoundfi

podster said:


> Well I wanted to try a couple other cheap iem's while getting the youth edition ED9's and have been curious on the VJJB's and like you said I've not lost the ship for a possible bad lifeboat in regards to their price:blink: THX Twin:bigsmile_face:
> 
> raybo, keep rolling tips brother:wink_face:
> 
> If you want to hear funny the wife said to me are you really going to by something that goes in your ear and says VJJ on it:eek:


probably better the named them VJJB and not VJBJ


----------



## raybone0566

I've got a pair of VJJB's in looking to donate to someone. Anyone interested feel free to pm me.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

raybone0566 said:


> I've got a pair of VJJB's in looking to donate to someone. Anyone interested feel free to pm me.


 
 What do you mean donate?


----------



## raybone0566

maggotbasshead said:


> What do you mean donate?


I have had no luck with these phones. Tried tip rolling and the fit is just horrible for me. I'm looking to send them to someone who met have better luck. no charge


----------



## 1clearhead

raybone0566 said:


> I have had no luck with these phones. Tried tip rolling and the fit is just horrible for me. I'm looking to send them to someone who met have better luck. no charge


 

 Good looking out! Hopefully, the right person to get them will enjoy them. Nice going!


----------



## DangerClose

How big is the soundstage on something like the ATE compared to headphones?  I have a pair of CK700 that are said to have a good soundstage, and the left/right is surprisingly good for a tiny thing you jam into your ear, but the left-right is a narrow tunnel, and overall it's kind of like the Monoprice 8323 soundstage, in that a tunnel of left-right is nice but everything else has a hard time being out of your head.


----------



## TwinACStacks

podster said:


> Heck I barely hit $25 on both the youth ED9 and VJJ's so what else can I throw in this basket that is Twin approved (and that I don't have already like Zircon's and over half the KZ lineup)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 have you tryed the EARMAX ER580?  It's okay nothing great though, Or the Moaol MP850 Dual Driver? How about a KZ Micro Ring?
  
 If you wanna go to the next Level: Bette (I.valux) 10mm F3 or Puro IEM500 Which is a Dead on Audiophile Phone. The Bette isn't real far behind it in Quality either.
  
 Little more spendy around $43-50 if U know where to look. Otherwise the Puros are $130-$200.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Lohb

maggotbasshead said:


> I mainly use my Samsung Galaxy Alpha for my earphones
> Pretty much all my music is 320kbps mp3
> But on my PC I have the CREATIVE Sound Blaster 5.1 (I haven't really used them on that yet though)


 

 I'm just not sure then, as I'm really sensitive to ragged treble and ED9 are spot-on for me with gold tips. I found ED10 too ear-ripping in the treble region.


----------



## raybone0566

twinacstacks said:


> have you tryed the EARMAX ER580?  It's okay nothing great though, Or the Moaol MP850 Dual Driver? How about a KZ Micro Ring?
> 
> If you wanna go to the next Level: Bette (I.valux) 10mm F3 or Puro IEM500 Which is a Dead on Audiophile Phone. The Bette isn't real far behind it in Quality either.
> 
> ...


I found the puro ie500 for 49.99 from shopdivvy.com. They are the seller selling them on eBay. Got shipping notice about 2hrs. After I ordered


----------



## CoiL

dangerclose said:


> How big is the soundstage on something like the ATE compared to headphones?  I have a pair of CK700 that are said to have a good soundstage, and the left/right is surprisingly good for a tiny thing you jam into your ear, but the left-right is a narrow tunnel, and overall it's kind of like the Monoprice 8323 soundstage, in that a tunnel of left-right is nice but everything else has a hard time being out of your head.


 
 ATE has one of the best out-of-headstage imaging and presentation out of KZ IEM`s imo. Depending on music and source being used, it can even reach close to Fidelio X1 soundstage. Though, lot depends on source gear and personal preference. Some find ATE too laid-back and "veiled". I do not agree with latter opinion, JMSO.


----------



## eaglearrow

coil said:


> ATE has one of the best out-of-headstage imaging and presentation out of KZ IEM`s imo. Depending on music and source being used, it can even reach close to Fidelio X1 soundstage. Though, lot depends on source gear and personal preference. Some find ATE too laid-back and "veiled". I do not agree with latter opinion, JMSO.


 
 What tips would you suggest to use on ATE's? I can't seem to find a decent tip to make them sound good enough (compared to ED10). Also, i cant seem to find a decent fit in one go. Need to keep adjusting them every now and then?


----------



## B9Scrambler

UE600 and Huawei Honor tips; both of those work well with the ATE. I ended up going back to a tip similar to the stock large tips (those generic black silicone ones), but the silicone on this other pair is softer. Not sure what they were from originally unfortunately.


----------



## andione1983

Just received a set of ed9s last week after reading all the positives on here, very impressed for a cheapo set of headphones, still have a few other pairs on the way to try. 

Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


----------



## robervaul

This aliexpress'festival 11.11 is a really fake. HDS1 will be more expensive than it was.


----------



## antoniosv90

It really depends on the store. The KZ original store is offering 3€ discount on the HDS1, ED9...But it's true, they higher prices on the festival so to seem like they're making a huuuge discount


----------



## CoiL

eaglearrow said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ATE has one of the best out-of-headstage imaging and presentation out of KZ IEM`s imo. Depending on music and source being used, it can even reach close to Fidelio X1 soundstage. Though, lot depends on source gear and personal preference. Some find ATE too laid-back and "veiled". I do not agree with latter opinion, JMSO.
> ...


 

 Depends what size are You usually using? I`m using smallest size and deep insertion. For me personally those tips give best result:
 *
 KZ whirlwind smallest tips that doesn`t come with KZ IEM`s and must be bought separately.
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-3-Size-In-Ear-Bud-Earphone-Covers-Headphones-Gel-Tip-Case-Replacement-Silicone-Earbuds/32416239335.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.27.UKnSLt&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2_91_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9
  
 *
 No-name white very soft smallest silicones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compatible-With-MDR-EX-Series-Ear-Bud-Gel-Tips-Various-Colours-x-6-Pieces-/272024112783?var=&hash=item3f55e68e8f
  
 *
 No-name blue "CX300" smallest silicones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141721545729?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 *
 JVC Spiral Dot smallest: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131640696097?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=431011778928&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 They all are very good but my 2 favs are white ones and Spiral Dot`s.
  
 Main thing is to get large as possible bore opening.
  
 For medium size preference I would recommend Spiral dots in MS or M size and "CX300" blue ones.
  
 These should be also good but haven`t received them yet: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251455352309?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## LuparaX2

Good thing I ordered the HDS1 for € 6,32. Was hesitant but for that price should have ordered more than 1 pair. 





 
 Edit: you can still get them for a good price now 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-HDS1-Miniature-In-ear-with-Microphone-Mic-Earphones-HIFI-Wire-Headphones-Metal-Bass-Stereo/32523892711.html
 And the shipping seems faster too with guaranteed 35-day delivery.


----------



## rjbell

Anyone ever had any luck contacting them? I've messaged twice regarding a bulk order but no reply.


----------



## eaglearrow

coil said:


> Depends what size are You usually using? I`m using smallest size and deep insertion. For me personally those tips give best result:
> *
> KZ whirlwind smallest tips that doesn`t come with KZ IEM`s and must be bought separately.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-3-Size-In-Ear-Bud-Earphone-Covers-Headphones-Gel-Tip-Case-Replacement-Silicone-Earbuds/32416239335.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.27.UKnSLt&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2_91_71_72_73_74_75,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9
> ...


 

 Thanks, I always wanted to try the spiral dots. But im worried that it may tame the treble too much.


----------



## Podster

raybone0566 said:


> I found the puro ie500 for 49.99 from shopdivvy.com. They are the seller selling them on eBay. Got shipping notice about 2hrs. After I ordered


 

 THX raybo and Twin, did not do much for my AliEx cart but I sure could not turn this down! http://www.shopdivvy.com/collections/audio/products/puro-sound-labs-iem500-studio-grade-in-ear-monitors-with-dual-dynamic-drivers


----------



## TwinACStacks

Ray and Pod. Use a Good music source (320Kbps or better), player and hopefully a quality amp/dac, (they are a Tad hard to drive), and you will be rewarded with some of the most Natural well EQ'd  Phones there are. They are truly Audiophile in presentation and worth Every penny of $50. In Fact, they are easily worth every Penny of their $200 List price.
  
 I found the stock tips have the Best seal. I compared stock tips and what works best (For Me), is to find the one that is MOST COMFORTABLE then go Next Size Bigger. it's worth the snug fit. They will enable almost ZERO external noise being able to enter.
  
 Let me know your impressions Soonest.
  








 TWIN


----------



## RedTwilight

eaglearrow said:


> Thanks, I always wanted to try the spiral dots. But im worried that it may tame the treble too much.




Try them! They don't take the treble actually, instead they make the iem sound more open. If you don't want to spend that much, you could give the KZ whirlwind tips a try. They're also pretty wide bore and seal well.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm going over the ear with my KZ HDS1 today. Damn these things sound incredible. Like a ED9 with less top end and better imaging and superior fit. 

Love me some HDS1


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> I'm going over the ear with my KZ HDS1 today. Damn these things sound incredible. Like a ED9 with less top end and better imaging and superior fit.
> 
> Love me some HDS1


 





 They are on the Cheap aren't they?  I ran into a 6 hour sale last night on Fleabay, $23.99 for the macaw RT10s. Not THAT much of a savings, but enough to entice me to spring for them.
  
 HIFI, if you do anything else, get a hold (test or otherwise) of a Pair of Puro IEM500 if possible. No Hype, no comparisons. I want to hear your impressions.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Hisoundfi

twinacstacks said:


> They are on the Cheap aren't they?  I ran into a 6 hour sale last night on Fleabay, $23.99 for the macaw RT10s. Not THAT much of a savings, but enough to entice me to spring for them.
> 
> HIFI, if you do anything else, get a hold (test or otherwise) of a Pair of Puro IEM500 if possible. No Hype, no comparisons. I want to hear your impressions.
> 
> TWIN


My money is tied up in so much other stuff right now, I can't blow more money this month. 

If someone has a pair they don't mind sending I can do some impressions and ship them back.


----------



## CoiL

eaglearrow said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Depends what size are You usually using? I`m using smallest size and deep insertion. For me personally those tips give best result:
> ...


 
 No way it tames treble! If anything I would say it very slightly "tames" the mids but by no means recesses it. Probably it`s just "effect" of better seal and larger bore that "clears & brings up" bass and highs.


----------



## dokkj

All these sub $30 IEMs, I don't even know what to pick. The Piston 3s, the just announced Piston 4s, the KZ ATE and ED9. Good Lord.
  
 I've been using the Meelectronics M6Ps for what, five years now? So I definitely need an upgrade. So if the Piston 4 turns out great, I'll get them. But I suppose I can wait the week or two for people to post impressions. Now if they turn out to be terrible, what do I go for in terms of the KZ models? The normal ED9? The one with the tuning nozzles?
  
 What about the ATE? I listen to different genres, so would it be safe to just get the balanced version?
  
 I'm just going by what I see on their Amazon listings: http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=bl_dp_s_web_667823011?ie=UTF8&node=667823011&field-brandtextbin=KZ
  
 Cheers!


----------



## eaglearrow

redtwilight said:


> Try them! They don't take the treble actually, instead they make the iem sound more open. If you don't want to spend that much, you could give the KZ whirlwind tips a try. They're also pretty wide bore and seal well.


 
  
  


coil said:


> No way it tames treble! If anything I would say it very slightly "tames" the mids but by no means recesses it. Probably it`s just "effect" of better seal and larger bore that "clears & brings up" bass and highs.


 
 Alright then. Thanks a lot. Ill try a pair and get back. One more thing.. I see they sell in a set of Single size.. S,L or M I dont know how they actually measure up in size.. Since they are pretty expensive, i cant try them all. Which one do you think i should order? Usually, the M's fit me very well (M from Sony MH1, M from sony hybrid & M from pretty much every earphone i've tried).


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> My money is tied up in so much other stuff right now, I can't blow more money this month.
> 
> If someone has a pair they don't mind sending I can do some impressions and ship them back.


 





 Damn Hifi You are asking for a lot. I REALLY like these Puros.... It also means I'm gonna have to send along the Bettes and a pair of Rock Zircons......
  
 PM Me your vital statistics and I'll get them off to you soon as I get a Chance. BTW I will make sure the tips are New/ Cleaned.
  
 If you are in Cheesehead land 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could damn-near throw them to you from Detroit.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

eaglearrow said:


> I see they sell in a set of Single size.. S,L or M I dont know how they actually measure up in size.. Since they are pretty expensive, i cant try them all. Which one do you think i should order? Usually, the M's fit me very well (M from Sony MH1, M from sony hybrid & M from pretty much every earphone i've tried).


 
 You said You had problem getting fit with ATE with both S and M sizes and were looking for something in middle?
 Well, I`m not You and I don`t have Your ears but maybe MS size would fit better with ATE than M due to thick nozzle?
 They sell sizes S, MS, M, ML and L, choice is up to You.




> 5 sizes: S (approx. 10mm), MS (approx. 11mm), M (approx. 12mm), ML (approx. 13mm), L (approx. 14mm)


----------



## Igor Eisberg

hisoundfi said:


> I'm going over the ear with my KZ HDS1 today. Damn these things sound incredible. Like a ED9 with less top end and better imaging and superior fit.
> 
> Love me some HDS1


 

 You'll be happy to hear that its big brother, the ED3 Youth Version, sounds even better. Read my full impressions: http://audiobudget.iagucool.com/brand.php?id=KZ


----------



## Hisoundfi

igor eisberg said:


> You'll be happy to hear that its big brother, the ED3 Youth Version, sounds even better. Read my full impressions: http://audiobudget.iagucool.com/brand.php?id=KZ


First things first, I want to tell you that your Web site looks fantastic bro! Great job with what you're doing! 

I'll have to say I feel differently about the new ed3 though. I really like them a lot, but I give the edge to the HDS1 for my preferences. The ed3 sounds more closed in to my ears, and I don't like how the long nozzle of the new ed3 is designed. It makes getting a seal slightly tedious. 

Both are great, but I slightly prefer the HDS1


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> First things first, I want to tell you that your Web site looks fantastic bro! Great job with what you're doing!
> 
> I'll have to say I feel differently about the new ed3 though. I really like them a lot, but I give the edge to the HDS1 for my preferences. The ed3 sounds more closed in to my ears, and I don't like how the long nozzle of the new ed3 is designed. It makes getting a seal slightly tedious.
> 
> Both are great, but I slightly prefer the HDS1


 

 Been wanting to know what the diff is in both the ED9 and ED3 youth models. From the photo's the ED3 youth appears to be closed back? Shorter? Was wondering if the ED( youth was also smaller (shorter)?
  
 Almost forgot, nice work Igor


----------



## sgl54

raybone0566 said:


> I found the puro ie500 for 49.99 from shopdivvy.com. They are the seller selling them on eBay. Got shipping notice about 2hrs. After I ordered


 
 Thanks for the Puro link, ordered a set, price and reviews sound great.


----------



## sgl54

Anybody have there Sn1's sorted yet? I'm still having marginal luck. The impression of decent underlying sound is there. Just out of reach.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

podster said:


> Been wanting to know what the diff is in both the ED9 and ED3 youth models. From the photo's the ED3 youth appears to be closed back? Shorter? Was wondering if the ED( youth was also smaller (shorter)?
> 
> Almost forgot, nice work Igor


 

 Thanks guys for your support.
 I still have more earphones in stock to write their reviews, and a bunch of earphones are on their way to me as we speak:
  
 [TO REVIEW]
  
 Chenle CY1515
 Cosonic CE-1000H
 Cosonic W3
 Fidue A33
 JBL T100A
 LG QuadBeat 2 (LE530)
 LKER i1
 KZ ED2
 KZ IE80
 Rock Zircon (RAU0501)
 Rock Mula (RAU0511)
 Sony MH750
 VJJB V1

 [IN TRANSIT]
  
 AudioSense S125
 AudioSense TX10
 boarseman CX98
 boarseman KR49i
 BYZ K30
 DZAT DR-20
 Ivery IV-7
 iWALK Amour (HDA001)
 Jolly Roger E100
 Jolly Roger M9 (Headphones)
 KZ ATE Youth Version
 KZ ED9 Youth Version
 KZ ZS1
 Langsdom A10
 Langsdom i8
 MOXO M12
 Mrice E300
 MYKIMO MK500
 Plextone X37V
 QCY QM03
 SADES SA-608
 TINGO FL800
 TINGO GX5
 TINGO GX10
 UiiSii HM6
 UiiSii HM7
 UiiSii I1
 Ziofen H9


----------



## 1clearhead

igor eisberg said:


> Thanks guys for your support.
> I still have more earphones in stock to write their reviews, and a bunch of earphones are on their way to me as we speak:
> 
> [TO REVIEW]
> ...


 
  
 You have the KZ ED2's up for review? Can't wait to hear your review on those.....it's been a long time coming!


----------



## eaglearrow

coil said:


> You said You had problem getting fit with ATE with both S and M sizes and were looking for something in middle?
> Well, I`m not You and I don`t have Your ears but maybe MS size would fit better with ATE than M due to thick nozzle?
> They sell sizes S, MS, M, ML and L, choice is up to You.


 
 Sorry, I did not say it right. By M's fitting well, i meant fit on other IEM's (Not ATE). Ate is a prob cause of the long nozzle
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i guess.. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Well, it's now 11 pm in the land of cheese and beer, and I'm laying in bed, and am STILL jamming the KZ HDS1. They're incredible. 

Mid forward with enough bass and treble to not be lacking. These are my favorite KZ. Vocals are amazeballs


----------



## 1clearhead

ED11 is a "must have"! ....all kidding aside!
  
 Slapping on the Zircon silicone tips on the ED11's creates an epic battle between my Zircon's and my top hybrids. It's like IE800's on steroids!

 Hands down...._the best with the Zircon silicone tips on them!_
 No hype.....just try it!


----------



## smith

1clearhead said:


> ED11 is a "must have"! ....all kidding aside!
> 
> Slapping on the Zircon silicone tips on the ED11's creates an epic battle between my Zircon's and my top hybrids. It's like IE800's on steroids!
> 
> ...


 

 How do they compare to the KZ-10 ? ... I really like the design but found the 10 to be to bright for me.....


----------



## Hisoundfi

smith said:


> How do they compare to the KZ-10 ? ... I really like the design but found the 10 to be to bright for me.....


from what representatives of the KZ brand have said, they are the same earphone with slight cosmetic differences.


----------



## CoiL

As much as I`ve read impressions about ED10 vs ED11, they should be same sounding or very tiny difference. And as I understood from Horton, they are not legit KZ lineup IEM but resellers "modded" version and it`s unknown if they even use same drivers or they are just marketing trick (newer name) to get more buyers.


----------



## slowpickr

igor eisberg said:


> Thanks guys for your support.
> I still have more earphones in stock to write their reviews, and a bunch of earphones are on their way to me as we speak:
> 
> [TO REVIEW]
> ...


 
  
 Wow, haven't even heard of several of those brands.  You really went all out.  The last one sounds like a drug. I think my grandfather used to take Ziofen. Also, had to look twice at "Jolly Roger".  For a moment I thought it was "Jolly Rancher" which really would have been some sweet phones (pun intended 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## raybone0566

igor,
That's a great site and great idea. Many thanks for your time and effort.


----------



## CoiL

Nowdays pretty much anyone could do such site and share their opinion. I don`t want to be harsh about Igor for sharing his impressions via that page but as he says on his page:
 


> Target Audience The reviews on this site are not targeted at audiophiles and I'm not a professional audio engineer. I'm not claiming to be technically correct, and it is not the purpose of these reviews.
> I'm just someone who listens to a variety of music genres, and these reviews are for people who need help finding good earphones/headphones at a low price, without tinkering too much with technicalities.
> This site's aim is to explore both popular and obscure brands and share experiences, not to provide commercial promotions.
> Equipment All of the earphones and headphones were tested on average consumers' equipment: a Sony Xperia Z1 and a desktop PC with ASUS Xonar DGX sound card with an on-board headphone amplifier.
> ...


 
 And I understand why our impressions and "judgement" differs. I`m taking his impressions with grain of salt since our preferences and references doesn`t meet about SQ.
 Each to his own of course and for many non-audiophiles that page is great to ditch all the crappy sounding budget IEM`s and at least get something decent.
 I respect all that time and effort he spends on those cheapos. Who knows, maybe some great discoveries coming ;P
  
 One thing though, while I agree that KZ GR is nothing special, I can`t agree about "rejecting" them! They have very good signature for old-school rock with bad masterings and "intimate / in Your face" recordings.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> from what representatives of the KZ brand have said, they are the same earphone with slight cosmetic differences.


 
 Quote:


coil said:


> As much as I`ve read impressions about ED10 vs ED11, they should be same sounding or very tiny difference. And as I understood from Horton, they are not legit KZ lineup IEM but resellers "modded" version and it`s unknown if they even use same drivers or they are just marketing trick (newer name) to get more buyers.


 
  
 I understand everybody's concern, but trust me they're definitely different drivers! When I buy inexpensive units like KZ's, Rock's, and other inexpensive IEM's, I always buy* "two sets of each" *because of their low price. So, I do very close comparisons, not just one, but two of each to see if they give me the same results. The KZ ED10 has forward MIDS with low and thick, but easy-going bass response, which is unfortunately accompanied by harsh trebles. While, the KZ ED11, in the other hand, has a better balance throughout the whole range with lighter, but nicer sub-bass, MIDS are neither forward, nor laid-back, and the treble is as fine or even finer than the ED9's. So, when I slap on the Zircon silicone tips on the ED11's, they just become a MUSIC DRIVEN BEAST, which I never encountered with any of the other IEM's in my stash. Unfortunately, the ED10's will not give you this signature because of the nature of the different sounding drivers.
  
 .....and Yes, they definitely come from Shenzhen, China.....as where all the other KZ's come from. Whether, they say it's not! is probably because they are trying to *"save face"* (not admit they're wrong), because they made a labeling mistake. For example, they could have been called KZ ED10B (B for balanced version), or ED10S (sharper treble without being harsh on top) is anybody's call. But after all, I think ED11 was the right call because they do have different drivers to prove to that claim. With there little spoken English they probably couldn't convince us of that. I could go on taobao right now and get them directly from Shenzhen where the other KZ's come from. Taobao lets you know the address where they're shipping from, haha! So, to give you a-heads-up, I've been living in China for quite along time and have connections with friends from Shenzhen to Beijing, there's no doubt they're shipping from the same factory.
  
 So enjoy and jump on these while you can!!! .....and slap the Zircon silicone tips on these. *They are epic in their own rights!*.....like I said, don't take my word for it.
  
*-Just try it!*


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> I understand everybody's concern, but trust me they're definitely different drivers!


 
 Trust based on what? Have You opened up Your ED10 and ED11? Have You measured impedances or FR?


> The KZ ED10 has *forward MIDS with low and thick, but easy-going bass response, which is unfortunately accompanied by harsh trebles.* While, the KZ ED11, in the other hand, has a better balance throughout the whole range with lighter, but nicer sub-bass, MIDS are neither forward, nor laid-back, and the treble is as fine or even finer than the ED9's.


 
 My ED10 doesn`t sound like this. More like You describe on last sentence about ED11.


> .....and Yes, they definitely come from Shenzhen, China.....as where all the other KZ's come from. Whether, they say it's not! is probably because they are trying to *"save face"* (not admit they're wrong), because they made a labeling mistake. For example, they could have been called KZ ED10B (B for balanced version), or ED10S (sharper treble without being harsh on top) is anybody's call. But after all, I think ED11 was the right call because they do have different drivers to prove to that claim. With there little spoken English they probably couldn't convince us of that. I could go on taobao right now and get them directly from Shenzhen where the other KZ's come from. Taobao lets you know the address where they're shipping from, haha! So, to give you a-heads-up, I've been living in China for quite along time and have connections with friends from Shenzhen to Beijing, there's no doubt they're shipping from the same factory.


 
 Lot of assumptions! Our info comes from Horton who is "Member of the Trade: Knowledge Zenith". I doubt he would say such things about ED11. And let me remind You - there are LOT of fakes out there and brands renaming/"upgrading" by looks, probably to reduce stock and catch ppl with "new" stuff.
 Another thing is that with those cheap IEM`s there are production and QC issues/differences. I`ve already experienced this with ED9 and also one member from my local forum (bought 3 ED9 and one sounded different). So, If ED11 has same drivers, it might as well be production or QC difference. 
 Another example - I suspect that with Yinjw wooden 2014/2015 versions difference is only backplate and cable, nothing else. Driver looks exactly same from inside.
 Seller claimed it has "new turbo drivers". Haven`t burned them in properly but to my ears they are same drivers inside tad changed enclosure.
  
 Btw, Horton sent me something (and seems that some others) but haven`t received it yet. Who knows, maybe new KZ review sample?


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Trust based on what? Have You opened up Your ED10 and ED11? Have You measured impedances or FR?
> My ED10 doesn`t sound like this. More like You describe on last sentence about ED11.
> Lot of assumptions! Our info comes from *Horton who is "Member of the Trade: Knowledge Zenith"*. I doubt he would say such things about ED11. *And let me remind You - there are LOT of fakes out there and brands renaming/"upgrading" by looks probably to reduce stock and catch ppl with "new" stuff.*
> Another thing is that with those cheap IEM`s there are production and QC issues/differences. I`ve already experienced this with ED9 and also one member from my local forum (bought 3 ED9 and one sounded different). *So, If ED11 has same drivers, it might as well be production or QC difference.*
> ...


 

 OK, do you personally know Horton? And since you know him, do you trust him? Can you prove he is who he is? Horton emailed me to send me a special gift just like you and others here, but "OPT OUT" when I told him that I work and live in China and not in the US. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. ....And do you know what "saving face" means? and how people run their businesses here in China? And do you actually own both the ED10's and the ED11's? I would call a lot of your comments, assumptions. This is how assumptions is properly used. If you don't want to get the ED11's, it's ok, by all means, you don't have to. But, let someone else try them and make a comment on them. I personally don't like to comment unless I actually compared both. So, you're open to give them a shot as well instead of doubting.
  
 ......it's all about, preferences, opinions, and different ears for different peers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No harm done by commenting, right?


----------



## CoiL

My assumptions were good as Yours but I didn`t claim anything for sure like You did: 


> I understand everybody's concern, but *trust me they're definitely different drivers*!


 
 Was just trying to bring some light on that case. No, I don`t know Horton. No I don`t have ED11 but didn`t order them because some who had both said they sounded same (sry, don`t bother to search this thread for exact posts).
  
 It`s just that when You claim something having different drivers and don`t take other nuances into consideration, without any proof (not that I have any proof to claim opposite)... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don`t take this personally. Was just offering some food for thought.
  
 Won`t comment this anymore and don`t want to cause flaming/thread closing. Each of us uses his/her own brain and makes conclusions (and also has practical experience if wishes). We know Your experience and impressions - thanks for sharing.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just Got a Message from Aliexpress seller Ann Quan. Is this KZ's first dual driver? Or am I reading it wrong?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-DT3-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/1246446_2045317657.html
  
 I'm also seeing recently more sellers Calling QKZ the same as KZ. Did they change their name?
  
 BTW: they are less than $17 on Amazon
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

link leads me to QKZ X36M, which is NOT KZ IEM. It`s Plextone model that has been out there for a while already.
  


twinacstacks said:


> I'm also seeing recently more sellers Calling QKZ the same as KZ. Did they change their name?


 
 As much as I know, no. KZ is selling very well and that QKZ brings other products up in list and into attention. 
 The way as I see it - selling trick.


----------



## TwinACStacks

coil said:


> link leads me to QKZ X36M, which is NOT KZ IEM. It`s Plextone model that has been out there for a while already.
> 
> As much as I know, no. KZ is selling very well and that QKZ brings other products up in list and into attention.
> The way as I see it - selling trick.


 





 Thanx for the info Coil. Any reviews on that Plextone or is it just junk?
  








 TWIN


----------



## CoiL

Don`t remember anymore, did some research long ago, they didn`t seem to impress ppl. Maybe it has changed or some better reviews available now, don`t know.


----------



## aaDee

twinacstacks said:


> Just Got a Message from Aliexpress seller Ann Quan. Is this KZ's first dual driver? Or am I reading it wrong?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-DT3-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/1246446_2045317657.html
> 
> ...


 
 Its funny to see how they photoshop the images 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
 CGI is getting better and photoshop is becoming ordinary with these sellers.


----------



## daikini

1clearhead said:


> ED11 is a "must have"! ....all kidding aside!
> 
> Slapping on the Zircon silicone tips on the ED11's creates an epic battle between my Zircon's and my top hybrids. It's like IE800's on steroids!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Clearhead,
  
 Any idea where I can get the Zircon silicone tips, or something close to them? Only have one pair of Mediums that were included, I definately like them so would like to have some spare.
 I see many clear tips on both Ebay and AlieX, but can't tell the difference.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> My assumptions were good as Yours but I didn`t claim anything for sure like You did:
> Was just trying to bring some light on that case. No, I don`t know Horton. No I don`t have ED11 but didn`t order them because some who had both said they sounded same (sry, don`t bother to search this thread for exact posts).
> 
> *It`s just that when You claim something having different drivers and don`t take other nuances into consideration, without any proof (not that I have any proof to claim opposite)...*
> ...


 
  
 Lol. It's a thread where you share your experiences and comment on them *with what you actually have on hand*, not nuances as you claim. Have fun, loosen up! Not everybody agrees with your comments on your favorite ATE's being the best and type of equipment you use, which as you say -we know your experience and impressions. So, understand that we have different experiences that makes this thread enjoyable......just have fun with it.
  
 On a positive note.....I like the mods you do on your sets of IEM's.
 Hope you understand where I'm going with this....Let's all stay positive, cool, and collective.


----------



## 1clearhead

daikini said:


> Hi Clearhead,
> 
> Any idea where I can get the Zircon silicone tips, or something close to them? Only have one pair of Mediums that were included, I definately like them so would like to have some spare.
> I see many clear tips on both Ebay and AlieX, but can't tell the difference.


 
  
 I can try to have my Chinese friend contact them directly to see if they can offer just the tips on different shopping websites and worldwide. I am off until Monday, so I'll let you know next week.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > My assumptions were good as Yours but I didn`t claim anything for sure like You did:
> ...


 
 You`re still taking it personally. 
  
 I understood all the points You made about ED11 from first post regarding this driver subject. Nevertheless it`s not proper to claim for sure "using different drivers" if there are other impressions saying them sound same and other nuances about production etc. I pointed out. I was just offering thoughts from outside Your subjective viewpoint and experience.
  
 I haven`t said ATE is best IEM out of KZ family for everyone. I have said this only about my own preference. I have recommended it and described it but not said "it is the best KZ IEM".
 Why do You even bring this into discussion? 
  
 Discussion was about ED10 and ED11 drivers being same or not. Don`t use demagoguery and derail from discussion trying to bash me with things I haven`t said.
  
 Chill out. Sorry if You feel insulted or attacked in any way, didn`t mean it all this way.
  
 Won`t comment anymore on this subject. 
  
 Over and out.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

twinacstacks said:


> Thanx for the info Coil. Any reviews on that Plextone or is it just junk?
> 
> TWIN



I have only reviewed the Plextone X41M, they are awesome, eapecially the bass. Their sub-bass is crazy. Much punchier than Zircon.
Read more here: http://audiobudget.iagucool.com/product.php?brand=Plextone&id=X41M


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> You`re still taking it personally.
> 
> I understood all the points You made about ED11 from first post regarding this driver subject. Nevertheless it`s not proper to claim for sure "using different drivers" if there are other impressions saying them sound same and other nuances about production etc. I pointed out. I was just offering thoughts from outside Your subjective viewpoint and experience.
> 
> ...


 

 Ouch! .....OK, I'm glad you won't comment anymore on this subject. As you said....over and out.


----------



## raybone0566

podster said:


> THX raybo and Twin, did not do much for my AliEx cart but I sure could not turn this down! http://www.shopdivvy.com/collections/audio/products/puro-sound-labs-iem500-studio-grade-in-ear-monitors-with-dual-dynamic-drivers


Podster, you'll be happy to know, I got home today and the puro's were in the mailbox. You should have yours very soon


----------



## BudgetListener

Hi everyone,
I read this thread until page 360 and I liked it a lot, and one thing is sure, you made me want to buy a pair of KZ's. I just dont know which. I am not going to buy 2 pairs as I dont have much money to spend.
So, I want you guys to please recommend me the one you think suites me better.
I mostly listen to classical, but also classic rock and a little EDM.
I found these at a good price (I think):
EDSE - 4.82
ATE - 7.44
ED10 - 7.96
ED11 - 8.51
ED9 - 8.71
ZS1 - 10.55
You dont need to recommend me these, just say the ones you think are the best for this kind of music.
Thanks a lot.


----------



## Podster

raybone0566 said:


> Podster, you'll be happy to know, I got home today and the puro's were in the mailbox. You should have yours very soon


 

 Sweet, I only have like 7 New iem's coming
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm convinced I have a serious problem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL
  
  
  
 KZ HDS1, Jr. (Youth) ED3's & 9's (ZS1's still not here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Zircon's
 Puro's
 Plextone X41M's (That darn Igor)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 VJJB V1's (Just because the wife said you can't wear something that says VJJ)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus I want something with a bass hit to it.
  
 1Clearhead will be pleased that I'm finding some real magic in this little setup


----------



## Igor Eisberg

podster said:


> Sweet, I only have like 7 New iem's coming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 VJJB V1 will disappoint you in the bass department. Plextone X41M, however, will shake your brains. I was shocked when I heard that monstrous bass. I thought nothing will beat the Zircon's bass, but damn...
 I added some more juice with the on-board amplifier on my ASUS Xonar DGX... you know what happened? Think the sound was distorted? Nope. The earphones shake inside my ears like full-sized headphones. It's a weird sensation. Listen to some dubstep with this and you'll see what I mean.
 On the sound signature side, it's similar to Zircon, not muddy like the AudioSense V2-MIX4, but slightly warmer than Zircon. The highs are very clear, especially when you amplify them.
 The tips I use with them are the Medium sized black tips included with LKER i1. The black tips differ from the rest of the tips you get with LKER i1 (3 white pairs and 3 red pairs) because they have a slightly different shape and their texture is very grippy, and they keep the earphones very firmly in place.


----------



## Podster

THX Igor, probably got the VJJ's more for the wife anyway


----------



## bhazard

Oh man, KZ is just getting better and better and keeping the same great pricing. The HDS-1 is just awesome for the price. The bass isn't overdone like most KZ sets, the vocals are clear, treble is nicely apparent with pretty good resolution... soundstage is a bit forward and intimate, but c'mon, $10.
  
 I can't see how KZ stays unknown to the general public for much longer. They can easily gain traction like Bluedio did with the quality and pricing KZ puts out.


----------



## raybone0566

Twin,
Props to you again. These puro's are very nice, like full-size cans.


----------



## 1clearhead

podster said:


> Sweet, I only have like 7 New iem's coming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow! Those triple flanges looks tempting!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .....How do you like the ED's.....incredible value, right? They are hard to beat with that extra sparkle on top!
  
 My current top dynamics......ED11's and Zircon's!


----------



## 1clearhead

bhazard said:


> Oh man, KZ is just getting better and better and keeping the same great pricing. The HDS-1 is just awesome for the price. The bass isn't overdone like most KZ sets, the vocals are clear, treble is nicely apparent with pretty good resolution... soundstage is a bit forward and intimate, but c'mon, $10.
> 
> I can't see how KZ stays unknown to the general public for much longer. They can easily gain traction like Bluedio did with the quality and pricing KZ puts out.


 
 I have my KZ-ED3  Youth Version for over 3 weeks now. They're okay, but not mind blowing. So, how much better are the HDS1's....are they worth getting? How close are they in sound signature to the ED3's? .....are they completely different to each other?
  
 .....Or, should I just get them?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Get them


----------



## myemaildw

bhazard said:


> Oh man, KZ is just getting better and better and keeping the same great pricing. The HDS-1 is just awesome for the price. The bass isn't overdone like most KZ sets, the vocals are clear, treble is nicely apparent with pretty good resolution... soundstage is a bit forward and intimate, but c'mon, $10.
> 
> I can't see how KZ stays unknown to the general public for much longer. They can easily gain traction like Bluedio did with the quality and pricing KZ puts out.




i know, i have qkz x6 super bass iem and i like the bass on them. mids detail are not that good but its five euro and bass in very different from other bass earphones and i like the bass on them.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Get them


 

 Thumbs-up! Thanks!


----------



## Carlsan

1clearhead said:


> ED11 is a "must have"! ....all kidding aside!
> 
> Slapping on the Zircon silicone tips on the ED11's creates an epic battle between my Zircon's and my top hybrids. It's like IE800's on steroids!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't really care about the comparison to the 10's, as I don't have those, all I can say is that I completely agree on the KZ ED11, they are my favorite KZ earphones, and I have the ED9's, ATES, and HDS1. It's better that all three. Furthermore, I don't fine them overly bright at all, as someone said about the 10's.
 Just my $.02
 Cheers


----------



## EISENbricher

Nice to read the opinions about ED11 and HDS1. I'll be receiving those soon : )


----------



## 1clearhead

carlsan said:


> Don't really care about the comparison to the 10's, as I don't have those, all I can say is that I completely agree on the KZ ED11, they are my favorite KZ earphones, and I have the ED9's, ATES, and HDS1. It's better that all three. Furthermore, I don't fine them overly bright at all, as someone said about the 10's.
> Just my $.02
> Cheers


 

 Cheers my friend! .....You hear what I hear!
 .....Real comments from people who own them!


----------



## duffy1234

so what are best kz earphones for hip hop,linking park,rhcp and dnb ? and what tips to buy aswell to go with them ?


----------



## Hisoundfi

duffy1234 said:


> so what are best kz earphones for hip hop,linking park,rhcp and dnb ? and what tips to buy aswell to go with them ?


If your looking for something for bassy stuff, the DT3 is great, the new ZS1 is cool too


----------



## Hisoundfi

ED10 and ED11 are also great for what your looking for duffy1234


----------



## TwinACStacks

raybone0566 said:


> Twin,
> Props to you again. These puro's are very nice, like full-size cans.


 





 My ONLY qualm with them RBone, is that they are Hard as hell to drive, just like the Havis. But they REALLY respond to EQ and Bass Boost at a pretty Good power/ Volume level without losing ANY clarity at all. That is: using a Fiio E12 (original), with a 16dB Gain AND 6 db Bass BOOST. Most earphones including the Havi B3 and the Flare R2 come unglued under those conditions.
  
 Glad You like them. Their EQ isn't for everyone. (especially Bassheads). VERY NATURAL open sound.
  
 Between The Puros, The 10mm Bettes, and the Trinity Deltas I pretty much have Hybrids covered.
  
 NOW, You need the Bettes. They actually are continuing to improve as I use them, they have at least 250 hours on them. Very Stubborn Burn in.
  








 TWIN


----------



## raybone0566

Anyone aware if there's an official thread for puro iem500's? If not we should start one those are fantastic earphones. Poster your gonna be a happy camper when you put those on. Also really digging those HDS1's.they may not have the detail of ed9 but they still are a great value & play well with most of the music I listen to.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

I'm not sure I'm getting the best out of my KZ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 All you guys have Fiio and and dac's and dap's and carry around blocks of stuff to get good sound quality
 I'd like to do that but I really need the interface for music ie. using my phone for its music app
 Help on what to do/explain?
 PS: I just got my ZN1's, They're charging


----------



## Lohb

maggotbasshead said:


> I'm not sure I'm getting the best out of my KZ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 HiFiMEDIY website have a few entry-level DACs that will get your source outside the Android (?) phone.
Sabre based DACs, so more analytic than natural.Oops my mistake it is PCM2706 USB
 They are small units east to use with phone, OTG cable and UAPP. Not sure how limited your budget is, but here is one that would get you rolling...I'd just double-check with the seller that your phone and UAPP will work with it...
 http://hifimediy.com/DACs/tiny-dac
 A wolfson DAC or Texas Instrument based DAC would be maybe more suited to ED9 but more $$$$$. remember you said you found treble rough but that may be your phone DAC straining away.


----------



## bhazard

maggotbasshead said:


> I'm not sure I'm getting the best out of my KZ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Start small. A phone is plenty fine for using a KZ iem on.
  
 Start by purchasing ear tips that other people have recommended (JVC Spiral Dots, Auvio, Sony Hybrids, Lunashops, Sennheiser Biflanges) until you find ones that fit your ear perfectly. The tips that come with the KZ aren't always good.
  
 If you want a boost in sound quality for everything, you can then jump to a $99 or so USB DAC (c-entrance mini) if your phone supports it. You'll then continue to feed your upgraditis addiction until you come to your senses or your wallet empties.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

lohb said:


> HiFiMEDIY website have a few entry-level DACs that will get your source outside the Android (?) phone.
> Sabre based DACs, so more analytic than natural.Oops my mistake it is PCM2706 USB
> They are small units east to use with phone, OTG cable and UAPP. Not sure how limited your budget is, but here is one that would get you rolling...I'd just double-check with the seller that your phone and UAPP will work with it...
> http://hifimediy.com/DACs/tiny-dac
> A wolfson DAC or Texas Instrument based DAC would be maybe more suited to ED9 but more $$$$$. remember you said you found treble rough but that may be your phone DAC straining away.


 
 What would buying this thing from HIFImeDIY do?
 Yes Android


----------



## TwinACStacks

bhazard said:


> Start small. A phone is plenty fine for using a KZ iem on.
> 
> Start by purchasing ear tips that other people have recommended (JVC Spiral Dots, Auvio, Sony Hybrids, Lunashops, Sennheiser Biflanges) until you find ones that fit your ear perfectly. The tips that come with the KZ aren't always good.
> 
> If you want a boost in sound quality for everything, you can then jump to a $99 or so USB DAC (c-entrance mini) if your phone supports it. You'll then continue to feed your upgraditis addiction until you come to your senses or your wallet empties.


 





 The sound quality out of most Iphones and Andoids is actually pretty good. Like 'Hazard says, get some good tips. I've had stellar results with Auvio and Sony Hybrids, then if you need more power for phones that are 32 Ohm and higher resistance, consider coupling it with an Amp or Amp/Dac. ALSO some non OEM Equalizers are available for these Phones. In Fact, Puro actually has an Elaborate EQ App for Iphone. I don't use it because it refreshes itself in the Background and runs the phone charge down faster than I like, Plus I have a dedicated Player/Amp for Music Playback.
  
 Make SURE you are getting a good seal with your tips. Generally I try the Mediums first and if they are Very comfortable, I go one size up to Larges for a Better seal. The improvement in sound quality is worth a slight discomfort between tip sizes.
  








 TWIN


----------



## raybone0566

twinacstacks said:


> My ONLY qualm with them RBone, is that they are Hard as hell to drive, just like the Havis. But they REALLY respond to EQ and Bass Boost at a pretty Good power/ Volume level without losing ANY clarity at all. That is: using a Fiio E12 (original), with a 16dB Gain AND 6 db Bass BOOST. Most earphones including the Havi B3 and the Flare R2 come unglued under those conditions.
> 
> Glad You like them. Their EQ isn't for everyone. (especially Bassheads). VERY NATURAL open sound.
> 
> ...


I noticed that yesterday with the hard to drive. I had the x5ii up to 85% volume and they sounded very thin. I switched to x3 with c&c bk with comply tips and boom! Comply tips turned these phones into a real beast. They have bass, you have to have a complete seal in your ear canal and the comply' are perfect. Detail retrieval is excellent. I was listening to a song this morning and I heard something and I thought something in the earphone was loose. Played the tune again and it was something they added in the background in the recording I had never heard before. Listen to widespread panic's ball album, the first song is named fishing, absolution for jaw dropping on these phones. They do sound like full size cans. But they need plenty juice. Just ordered a vahalia2 for my hd800's so will have to wait a bit on the bette's. Great call Twin, the other one was the zircon's which are also great phones. Cheers


----------



## Grayson73

bhazard said:


> Oh man, KZ is just getting better and better and keeping the same great pricing. The HDS-1 is just awesome for the price. The bass isn't overdone like most KZ sets, the vocals are clear, treble is nicely apparent with pretty good resolution... soundstage is a bit forward and intimate, but c'mon, $10.
> 
> I can't see how KZ stays unknown to the general public for much longer. They can easily gain traction like Bluedio did with the quality and pricing KZ puts out.


 
  
 What IEMs can they compete with?  My friend bought ED10 and ATE and said they were underwhelming compared to Tenore and KC06.
  
 Is it true that KZ are great values for $10, but they are still not as good as the highly touted $50 and $100 IEMs?


----------



## Grayson73

raybone0566 said:


> Anyone aware if there's an official thread for puro iem500's? If not we should start one those are fantastic earphones. Poster your gonna be a happy camper when you put those on. Also really digging those HDS1's.they may not have the detail of ed9 but they still are a great value & play well with most of the music I listen to.


 
 I haven't seen one.  Someone should start one.


----------



## TwinACStacks

grayson73 said:


> I haven't seen one.  Someone should start one.


 





 Start One RayB. I didn't start that Zircon thread either!! The more that go into these phones KNOWING what they are getting the Better. I was Skeptical: a $200 Phone for $50? But I took the Chance after a couple GREAT reviews, and ALL I can say is they *absolutely* live up to the www.purosound.com Manufacturer's claims.
  
 And then some.
  
  
 You hit the nail on the Head, with these Puros, the SEAL is all important. Fortunately, I got Great seal with the Stock large tips. I've done others but I keep coming back to the Stock ones.
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

grayson73 said:


> What IEMs can they compete with?  My friend bought ED10 and ATE and said they were underwhelming compared to Tenore and KC06.
> 
> Is it true that KZ are great values for $10, but they are still not as good as the highly touted $50 and $100 IEMs?


 





 You wouldn't go wrong with the Tenore, still a fairly inexpensive phone. It's in my travel rotation. A  little sketchy on the Build Quality, particularly at the strain reliefs, nothing a drop of superglue won't cure. Still they are an awesome phone.
  
 KZ's are Great for the money for the most Part. My personal Fave is the EDSE.
  








 TWIN


----------



## raybone0566

twinacstacks said:


> Start One RayB. I didn't start that Zircon thread either!! The more that go into these phones KNOWING what they are getting the Better. I was Skeptical: a $200 Phone for $50? But I took the Chance after a couple GREAT reviews, and ALL I can say is they *absolutely* live up to the www.purosound.com Manufacturer's claims.
> 
> And then some.
> 
> ...


Ok, going to get one going when I get in from work. Listening to Stevie Ray vaughan's "Texas Flood" album now and this is really ridiculous for an earphone. They give you that out of head experience! For 50.00 that's a steal imo


----------



## TwinACStacks

Hey Raybone, Try This one:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEi3pd5xvk
  








 TWIN


----------



## bhazard

grayson73 said:


> What IEMs can they compete with?  My friend bought ED10 and ATE and said they were underwhelming compared to Tenore and KC06.
> 
> Is it true that KZ are great values for $10, but they are still not as good as the highly touted $50 and $100 IEMs?


 
 They really aren't that far off from the Tenore and KC06 now with the hds-1 and ed11.
  
 Remember, most people would cringe spending $60-100 for earphones, and we are not the norm. KZ are nice upgrades for people who have never tried anything aside from their iphone earpods.


----------



## raybone0566

bhazard said:


> They really aren't that far off from the Tenore and KC06 now with the hds-1 and ed11.
> 
> Remember, most people would cringe spending $60-100 for earphones, and we are not the norm. KZ are nice upgrades for people who have never tried anything aside from their iphone earpods.


Agreed, while they may not be as good as those phones mentioned. They do perform much better that anything else in that price range. Ed9 is very accurate for a 15.00 phone. As a former owner I never really the the kc06 was that good. Never heard the tenore but the basso was my first step into the earphone arena. Great thing with KZ is you get great sound, decent build quality for a very reasonable price. I own a few 300-400 dollar earphones and while they do outperform the kz's and other budget phones the difference is nowhere near as big as what the price would suggest. I can see maybe having one flagship phone, then acquire a collection of the budget phones for everyday use and be set


----------



## bhazard

raybone0566 said:


> Agreed, while they may not be as good as those phones mentioned. They do perform much better that anything else in that price range. Ed9 is very accurate for a 15.00 phone. As a former owner I never really the the kc06 was that good. Never heard the tenore but the basso was my first step into the earphone arena. Great thing with KZ is you get great sound, decent build quality for a very reasonable price. I own a few 300-400 dollar earphones and while they do outperform the kz's and other budget phones the difference is nowhere near as big as what the price would suggest. I can see maybe having one flagship phone, then acquire a collection of the budget phones for everyday use and be set


 
 AKA, I don't mow the lawn with my $300 pair of anything, yet still want good sound.
  
 KZ tagline "You can mow the lawn with them".


----------



## Grayson73

twinacstacks said:


> You wouldn't go wrong with the Tenore, still a fairly inexpensive phone. It's in my travel rotation. A  little sketchy on the Build Quality, particularly at the strain reliefs, nothing a drop of superglue won't cure. Still they are an awesome phone.
> 
> KZ's are Great for the money for the most Part. My personal Fave is the EDSE.
> 
> ...


 
 Tenore is my favorite (see my sig), but LZ-A2 on the way.


----------



## ebrian

bhazard said:


> They really aren't that far off from the Tenore and KC06 now with the hds-1 and ed11.
> 
> Remember, most people would cringe spending $60-100 for earphones, and we are not the norm. KZ are nice upgrades for people who have never tried anything aside from their iphone earpods.


 
  
 Count me in there!  I got both Tenore and KC06 for just under that range and the Havi just a tiny bit over $60.  
  
 Honestly I didn't mind trying the ATE and ED10 but the more of these acquired, the more I've noticed that my cumulative spending amount keeps going up without my cumulative satisfaction going up.  In the end I've probably spent in total about $200+ on iem's that I did not like better than Tenore and KC06 (VSD1, VSD3, Brainwavz Delta, Pistons, Narmoo etc).  
  
 (This is probably also a good time to remind myself that it's time to sell some of my collection..)


----------



## Grayson73

bhazard said:


> They really aren't that far off from the Tenore and KC06 now with the hds-1 and ed11.
> 
> Remember, most people would cringe spending $60-100 for earphones, and we are not the norm. KZ are nice upgrades for people who have never tried anything aside from their iphone earpods.


 
 Very true, but I'm fine with spending up to $100


----------



## waynes world

ebrian said:


> Count me in there!  I got both Tenore and KC06 for just under that range and the Havi just a tiny bit over $60.
> 
> Honestly I didn't mind trying the ATE and ED10 but the more of these acquired, the more I've noticed that my cumulative spending amount keeps going up without my cumulative satisfaction going up.  In the end I've probably spent in total about $200+ on iem's that I did not like better than Tenore and KC06 (VSD1, VSD3, Brainwavz Delta, Pistons, Narmoo etc).
> 
> (This is probably also a good time to remind myself that it's time to sell some of my collection..)


 
  
 +1. The only good thing about getting way to much crap is that some diamonds do end up floating to the top of the pile and end up providing a great deal of satisfaction (the kc06a's and titan1's and VE Zen's are a few for me). The trick is to somehow be satisfied with them and to stop buying yet more gear. I haven't figured out that trick yet, but I have a feeling it involves _not_ logging onto head-fi lol.


----------



## sgl54

sgl54 said:


> Anybody have there Sn1's sorted yet? I'm still having marginal luck. The impression of decent underlying sound is there. Just out of reach.


 

 Ok just an Sn1 update for those also following, trying to figure it out still no joy on the Sn1 tip front. Closest I got were a set of bullet shape soft silicone units the came with my OM Inearpeace hybrids. I think for me part of the problem is position difficult to get right with the memory wire. At this point I think the solution may be with those spin fit tips. It seems as if positioning wouldn't be as critical. I've never tried these, I wonder if anyone has tried these? I went ahead and ordered a set so we shall see


----------



## shadowrider0204

Hi new here
Need advise already got MEelectronics m6
So looking for a gud headset under 50$
Kz ATE or SIDY m03 or any other please advise
Im a bit of a basshead but also want sound detailed
Sorry for my bad english


----------



## Multimediers

hisoundfi said:


> ..........Why not make the amp separate? I don't get it.


 
  
 I am guessing.......if the amp is a separate one, then the plug from ZN1 to the amp box is not possible to be a standard one. According to the design strategy of ZN1, the hi and low are being separately amplified, transmitted and generated. Then at least 5 contacts are needed on the plug which will make ZN1 not be to work with standard output sources (smartphones, tablets, laptops amp....etc). Thus design strategy makes no sense for a separate amp box.
  
 However, the cables are really making the use of ZN1 not practical. They are too short and not soft enough. After a month of use, the cables, especially the one from mini plug to the amp box, are still angled as it was just coming taking out from the package box for the first time.


----------



## Lohb

maggotbasshead said:


> What would buying this thing from HIFImeDIY do?
> Yes Android


 

 It is a USB audio card that you plug into your phone with a USB to micro-usb OTG cable that basically that will process your audio outside the phone and you just plug your ED9s straight into it.
 You need UAPP to bridge the audio out or free HIBY player which will also bridge the audio out if your Android does not support OTG audio out natively.
  
 But like others say, try tip rolling and the other nozzle first on ED9s to see if it makes SQ better...


----------



## BudgetListener

budgetlistener said:


> Hi everyone,
> I read this thread until page 360 and I liked it a lot, and one thing is sure, you made me want to buy a pair of KZ's. I just dont know which. I am not going to buy 2 pairs as I dont have much money to spend.
> So, I want you guys to please recommend me the one you think suites me better.
> I mostly listen to classical, but also classic rock and a little EDM.
> ...



Still, I dont know wich ones to buy.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Hello all,
  
 I lightly updated my KZ shootout (from over 100 pages ago at this point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) with some shifted ranking and other little changes here and there. For those interested, you can check it out here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/5700#post_11832247
  
 When the HDS1, ZS1, and ED3 2015 arrive, I'll be adding them to the list. Given my experiences with shipping from China to Canada, I expect them all to arrive during the week of Nov 23rd.


----------



## stephanNL

I recently got a pair of ED10 but I can't say I'm liking them so far. The bass seems muddy (impressive quantity though), mids very recessed. The only thing I like about these are the relaxed highs. I've already tip rolled through the blue/transparent tips that came with it but found that some foam tips I had lying around were best fit. Vocals seems very distant because of, what I perceive as, recessed mids. Should I wait for burn-in to fix this or can I trash them right away?


----------



## B9Scrambler

stephannl said:


> I recently got a pair of ED10 but I can't say I'm liking them so far. The bass seems muddy (impressive quantity though), mids very recessed. The only thing I like about these are the relaxed highs. I've already tip rolled through the blue/transparent tips that came with it but found that some foam tips I had lying around were best fit. Vocals seems very distant because of, what I perceive as, recessed mids. Should I wait for burn-in to fix this or can I trash them right away?


 
  
 Bummer  Sounds like you could have an issue with yours. Bass should be quick and clean, mids only mildly recessed, and treble pretty energetic.


----------



## Hisoundfi

grayson73 said:


> Tenore is my favorite (see my sig), but LZ-A2 on the way.


Get ready bro, you're in for a real treat!


----------



## 1clearhead

igor eisberg said:


> Done.
> http://audiobudget.iagucool.com/product.php


 

 Thanks for looking out!


----------



## TwinACStacks

raybone0566 said:


> Guys,
> Puro ie500 impression thread is up


 






 Cool. They deserve it.
  








 TWIN


----------



## BudgetListener

The more I read the more confused I get. Can please ANYONE compare these IEMs?

Rock Mula
Rock Zircons
Rock bette
KZ zs1
KZ ed11
KZ ed9
KZ ate
KZ hds1
YINJW ie800

Thanks you


----------



## ajaxender

For people struggling with the fit of the ZS1's, I think the whirlwind tips you get with most other recent KZ's are nearly perfect. They're short, and the bore is nearly the exact width as the nozzle, so it goes most of the way through and the tip core edges don't bend back in. Its a shallow fit but I don't think you can avoid that with these, else the massive difference between the nozzle width and the actual sound hole can cause sound interference (if its bouncing around in the gap between the tip core and the hole, before getting into your ears, is my thinking).
  
If you get them to fit, you should get a ton of sub-bass. Lots of rumble. Higher basses though are a little more restrained, and work in with mids that are lush and weighty without feeling too thick. Vocals are powerful, even through the bass. Treble is smooth - lower is present for female vocals and a bit of crispness, but the rest ends up recessed. Detail is better than you might think but not amazing. A gentler sound than I prefer, but not harsh in the slightest which is nice.
  
I don't think they're a must buy for all, but I enjoy them. Good fun with most of the EDM I have, and they have good weight and vocal presence with some rock music, stuff with vocal emphasis tends to work well with good atmosphere from the sub-bass. 
  
In fact, the biggest issue, besides the fit for some, is the lack of isolation. Four forward-facing vents on each shell. I went for a walk earlier, to the beach-front where wind noise was terrible. Then through a shopping area... these are inside IEMs. Keep that in mind.


----------



## VokirbeR

budgetlistener said:


> The more I read the more confused I get. Can please ANYONE compare these IEMs?
> 
> Rock Mula
> Rock Zircons
> ...


 
 and also 
 Ingping H60
 Auglamour R1s
 Xiaomi Piston 3
 Tennmak Dulcimer
  
 Thanks a lot!
 Have specially registered to write this message, lol


----------



## eaglearrow

Wowww... Kz ZS1 for $13 on 11.11
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-Origina-KZ-ZS1-In-ear-Eearphone-Dual-Dynamic-Driver-Subwoofer-HIFI-Monitor-Headphones-Headset-With/1825606_32512176295.html


----------



## Maxima7

Eaglearrow, I've seen $10 for the ZS1 on 11/11. XD However, dual drivers isn't necessarily better.


----------



## sgl54

ajaxender said:


> For people struggling with the fit of the ZS1's, I think the whirlwind tips you get with most other recent KZ's are nearly perfect. They're short, and the bore is nearly the exact width as the nozzle, so it goes most of the way through and the tip core edges don't bend back in. Its a shallow fit but I don't think you can avoid that with these, else the massive difference between the nozzle width and the actual sound hole can cause sound interference (if its bouncing around in the gap between the tip core and the hole, before getting into your ears, is my thinking).
> 
> If you get them to fit, you should get a ton of sub-bass. Lots of rumble. Higher basses though are a little more restrained, and work in with mids that are lush and weighty without feeling too thick. Vocals are powerful, even through the bass. Treble is smooth - lower is present for female vocals and a bit of crispness, but the rest ends up recessed. Detail is better than you might think but not amazing. A gentler sound than I prefer, but not harsh in the slightest which is nice.
> 
> ...



Yoir probably right, they're (Kz turbines) the ones I keep coming back to. But still not perfect so I ordered some spinfits. I find, at least for me the memory wire gets in the way of a good simple fit. Always take a bit to adjust. So far I can't unequivocally recommend them for everyone either. The Zn1's have proved to be easier to use and so far make much nicer noise.


----------



## ajaxender

The whirlwinds almost never work for me. I got a set with the ttpod t1e and they didnt work for me on them (although nothing else does either), nor anything else I tried them on. Even other KZs, except for ED8. The bore just happens to be the right size for the ZS1 nozzle, so with a shallow fit and the shells sitting in my ears nicely it all just works. Seems to me you like a deeper insertion, thinking of the spin-fit design they could work quite well. Handy to have anyway. 
  
 Agreed the memory wire is unnecessary. Once you sort out how and where to bend it for you, its not so bad. I assume it was to help with supporting the ZN1 amp, but without it the shells arent heavy enough for it to do anything much.


----------



## eaglearrow

maxima7 said:


> Eaglearrow, I've seen $10 for the ZS1 on 11/11. XD However, dual drivers isn't necessarily better.


 
 Well, i never said that it was better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My post just said that the product is available at 75% of its selling cost.


----------



## shadowrider0204

Hey can anyone tell me hows the bass and other sound quality on vsonic vsd3 as compared to the Meelectronics m6
Thanks.


----------



## Trapok

shadowrider0204 said:


> Hey can anyone tell me hows the bass and other sound quality on vsonic vsd3 as compared to the Meelectronics m6
> Thanks.


Wrong thread ?


----------



## shadowrider0204

trapok said:


> Wrong thread ?



Sorry I had two tabs of the this site open so posted in the wrong thread


----------



## Turkleton

Damn this thread and the Chinese iem thread! I've gone on an iem spree... Just ordered 
Rock Zircon (x2 - one for the wife)
Kz ed9
Kz ed10
Kz ate
Kz hds1
Kz ed3 youth edition


----------



## Turkleton

Forgot to add... It's a toss up between 

kz zs1 ($13-14) not much extras
HZSound HZ EP001($14) free case!
**** F05 ($11) free bag...

Kinda wanna limit cos I'm also lining up an Xduoo x2 with SD card... I know its nothing much compared to primo ear gear, but hey, that's why I'm in the Chinese threads!


----------



## fb1907

Overall Which is better ?

Ed11?

What are the model that everyone is happy ?


----------



## fb1907

Ed11
Hds1
Ed9
Ed se

Overall which is better? 
That everyone is satisfied.


----------



## fb1907

Ed11
Hds1
Ed9
Ed se

Overall which is better? 
That everyone is satisfied.


----------



## sgl54

ajaxender said:


> The whirlwinds almost never work for me. I got a set with the ttpod t1e and they didnt work for me on them (although nothing else does either), nor anything else I tried them on. Even other KZs, except for ED8. The bore just happens to be the right size for the ZS1 nozzle, so with a shallow fit and the shells sitting in my ears nicely it all just works. Seems to me you like a deeper insertion, thinking of the spin-fit design they could work quite well. Handy to have anyway.
> 
> Agreed the memory wire is unnecessary. Once you sort out how and where to bend it for you, its not so bad. I assume it was to help with supporting the ZN1 amp, but without it the shells arent heavy enough for it to do anything much.



My TTpod T1's were as almost as hard for me to fit. I don't remember what tips finally were listenable, but they ended up in the drawer after a couple of weeks so maybe they never did work. Unlike the Sn1's it never felt like there was more potential in them with a little more effort. While the Sn1's have the memory wire the Zn1's don't ( they fit very well). I would almost think it would be the opposite. The shape even though of the ear pieces although large fit well in my ears the me, so without the mem wire it's better. Maybe my ears are to big! I have also found the shallower tips both the red and blue whirlwinds ( tip aperture doesn't seem to matter) seem to work the best. I have great hopes for the spinfits seems like I'd have to fight the memory wire realignment less. The sounds definitely there with them just a tip and for me fit issue. The Zn1's are consistantly at the top of my rotation list, I just khow these will be right up there with the right tips.


----------



## sgl54

maxima7 said:


> Eaglearrow, I've seen $10 for the ZS1 on 11/11. XD However, dual drivers isn't necessarily better.



If done right I think a dual elememt is better. The Sn1's are still a huge question mark for me. Kz's other dual element is absolutly wonderful. I keep wondering if part of the problem is that Sn1's dual elements start to finish were designed around the powered eq cross/amp/ cross over of the Zn. So didn't quite translate to the non powered.


----------



## Podster

grayson73 said:


> What IEMs can they compete with?  My friend bought ED10 and ATE and said they were underwhelming compared to Tenore and KC06.
> 
> Is it true that KZ are great values for $10, but they are still not as good as the highly touted $50 and $100 IEMs?


 

 Better question is are the other iem's $40 - $90 better sounding than the KZ's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've not bought a KZ over $30 and would say SQ wise all have been worth their asking price, the downfall at this point for me with KZ has been inconsistency of product build! IMHO if you get a KZ that is within 95% of it's best build you have a bargain iem


----------



## sgl54

turkleton said:


> Forgot to add... It's a toss up between
> 
> kz zs1 ($13-14) not much extras
> HZSound HZ EP001($14) free case!
> ...


 

 The Kz Sn1's came with 2 full sets of turbines (blue and red) as well as the standard soft black ones and a zippered case( a little larger than the standard case, which with the memory wire is needed. Fortunately that Xduoo X2 will push anything on your list. Well pretty much anything you buy. The issue with the Sn1's remains the difficulty in pairing the right tip. The Kz turbines seem to work well for some. So they may work well out of the box for you ( they do need some burn in) but be prepared to play a bit with them.


----------



## sgl54

fb1907 said:


> Ed11
> Hds1
> Ed9
> Ed se
> ...


 

 I don't have the 11's but of the Edse, Ed3, Ed9, Ed10 and ATE I always return to the 9's with the Edse and Ate just behind. Ate for fit.


----------



## aaDee

sgl54 said:


> The Kz Sn1's came with 2 full sets of turbines (blue and red) as well as the standard soft black ones and a zippered case( a little larger than the standard case, which with the memory wire is needed. Fortunately that Xduoo X2 will push anything on your list. Well pretty much anything you buy. The issue with the Sn1's remains the difficulty in pairing the right tip. The Kz turbines seem to work well for some. So they may work well out of the box for you ( they do need some burn in) but be prepared to play a bit with them.



 

man....please do something to your AUTO CORRECT. I was searching for SN1 until I found that it's your phone's mistake.


----------



## sgl54

aadee said:


> sgl54 said:
> 
> 
> > The Kz Sn1's came with 2 full sets of turbines (blue and red) as well as the standard soft black ones and a zippered case( a little larger than the standard case, which with the memory wire is needed. Fortunately that Xduoo X2 will push anything on your list. Well pretty much anything you buy. The issue with the Sn1's remains the difficulty in pairing the right tip. The Kz turbines seem to work well for some. So they may work well out of the box for you ( they do need some burn in) but be prepared to play a bit with them.
> ...


 
 Sorry about that, will do now.


----------



## peter123

turkleton said:


> Forgot to add... It's a toss up between
> 
> kz zs1 ($13-14) not much extras
> HZSound HZ EP001($14) free case!
> ...




Fwiw I've got the **** F05 and they're nothing special. They're bassy, warm, smooth and with slightly recessed mids. Unfortunately they lack clarity and sparkle and makes a pretty unengaging and dull listening experience. If you're looking for something with a similar signature I'd suggest the YINJW DIY IE800, they share the same overall signature but has much better clarity and details. 

I'd put them on pair with the ED9 in overall perforamance, just a very different signature so it really depends on what you're looking for.


----------



## peter123

igor eisberg said:


> I think exactly the opposite about **** F05. They are brighter than most earphones I've heard. Their highs are the highlight of their sound, not the bass. The bass is gentle in comparison to Zircon/Plextone X41M/Ivery IV-7.
> http://audiobudget.iagucool.com/product.php?brand=****&id=F05




Unit variation due to poor qc maybe???


----------



## DarkStorm90

I'm currently using Sony MH1C and KZ EDSE. Already ordered Rock Zircons and Xiaomi Hybrid based on enthusiastic reviews. I want also order a pair of Yinjw ie800 wood for their praised bass and I can't decide between KZ ZS1 and KZ ED11 (I'm waiting for 11/11 sale on AliExpress). Could someone give me an advice? Thank you


----------



## mebaali

Sometime back @eaglearrow too got **** F05. IIRC, his impressions were somewhat similar to @peter123
  
 Here is his impressions on F05 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/17475#post_11873691


----------



## peter123

mebaali said:


> Sometime back @eaglearrow
> too got **** F05. IIRC, his impressions were somewhat similar to @peter123
> 
> 
> Here is his impressions on F05 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/17475#post_11873691




Sounds familiar indeed. I wish I'd seen it before I bought them


----------



## Igor Eisberg

peter123 said:


> Unit variation due to poor qc maybe???


 

 Maybe we just have different perspective about how low bass has to be to be "really low" and how loud and crisp the highs need to be to be clear and bright.
 I have a whole box (34 earphones) to compare to.


----------



## peter123

igor eisberg said:


> Maybe we just have different perspective about how low bass has to be to be "really low" and how loud and crisp the highs need to be to be clear and bright.
> I have a whole box (34 earphones) to compare to.




I'm not sure what you mean. I've got more than 100 headphones and iems myself, some of really good quality, but I can't see how that's relevant....


----------



## Igor Eisberg

peter123 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. I've got more than 100 headphones and iems myself, some of really good quality, but I can't see how that's relevant....


 
  
 It's relevent because listening to many earphones gives you a perspective, a spectrum for comparison. A person can't say that an earphone sounds bright/warm if he doesn't have anything to compare to.
 You probably have much brighter earphones than **** F05, probably more expensive and hi-fi sounding, but not many that actually have very low bass. A bass that actually vibrates inside the ear canals, like Plextone X41M and Ivery IV-7, which are cheap but their bass is crazy.


----------



## peter123

igor eisberg said:


> It's relevent because listening to many earphones gives you a perspective, a spectrum for comparison. A person can't say that an earphone sounds bright/warm if he doesn't have anything to compare to.
> You probably have much brighter earphones than **** F05, probably more expensive and hi-fi sounding, but not many that actually have very low bass. A bass that actually vibrates inside the ear canals, like Plextone X41M and Ivery IV-7, which are cheap but their bass is crazy.





Eh, of course I've got a lot of different sounding earphones and also pretty good experience with full sized headphones that naturally can offer a lot more bass impact than any IEM could ever do due to the laws of physics.

I'm not interesting in any **** measuring contest so I'm just gonna leave it at that we hear them completely different and don't comment any more on the matter. After all this is the KZ thread so I'd suggest that we go back to that direction again.


----------



## fallrsk

So.. I've been lurkin' head-fi for a while now and just got a pair of ED10's and man are they freakin' awesome for just $10 and about a week's shipping time. They're super sensitive, comfortable, the medium tips fit me great.. But jeeze, these pick up noise from anything!
 I've got Piston 2.1, 3.0 and a pair of MDR-7506's which never catch noise from my smsl m2, but these babies have as much noise as my standard laptop output.. Has anyone else had this issue? I can only bother to listen to them through my 5S right now due to the noise being so bothersome..
  
 Nonetheless, these are awesome and seem pretty flat, aside from a high freq hump. Totally sound signature from the Piston 3's.


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ is the best  Nice little gift I was sent. Thanks Horton! Now....how do I use a Bluetooth headset? Haha


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> KZ is the best  Nice little gift I was sent. Thanks Horton! Now....how do I use a Bluetooth headset? Haha




Turn it on, find with your phone and pair them


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> Turn it on, find with your phone and pair them




Embarrassingly, I've never used Bluetooth before haha. Should be easy enough.


----------



## Turkleton

fallrsk said:


> So.. I've been lurkin' head-fi for a while now and just got a pair of ED10's and man are they freakin' awesome for just $10 and about a week's shipping time. They're super sensitive, comfortable, the medium tips fit me great.. But jeeze, these pick up noise from anything!
> I've got Piston 2.1, 3.0 and a pair of MDR-7506's which never catch noise from my smsl m2, but these babies have as much noise as my standard laptop output.. Has anyone else had this issue? I can only bother to listen to them through my 5S right now due to the noise being so bothersome..
> 
> Nonetheless, these are awesome and seem pretty flat, aside from a high freq hump. Totally sound signature from the Piston 3's.


 
 Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I'm guessing the extra noise comes from the low impedance? Checked, ED10's are at 16ohms.. not necessarily low haha
  
 Hence why most high end phones usually are on the 32ohm spectrum?


----------



## Turkleton

podster said:


> Better question is are the other iem's $40 - $90 better sounding than the KZ's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I have that same fear... My first IEM was a xiaomi piston 2, but I got em from a ****ty buyer and so i got some ****ty fakes -_-
 Bought piston 3 from GearBest and thats when the IEM bug bit me... Read through this thread and the Chinese IEM thread, all these QC problems keep popping up. That's why I've only ordered from the flagship KZ store (they're a bit more expensive than HCKexin or the others) but I'd rather not risk it considering how long it takes to get here...
  
 I saw some people comment that they got lucky with Jacky Li, but noone really commented on which stores sent them faulty/easily busted phones


----------



## Turkleton

sgl54 said:


> The Kz Sn1's came with 2 full sets of turbines (blue and red) as well as the standard soft black ones and a zippered case( a little larger than the standard case, which with the memory wire is needed. Fortunately that Xduoo X2 will push anything on your list. Well pretty much anything you buy. The issue with the Sn1's remains the difficulty in pairing the right tip. The Kz turbines seem to work well for some. So they may work well out of the box for you ( they do need some burn in) but be prepared to play a bit with them.


 
  


peter123 said:


> Fwiw I've got the **** F05 and they're nothing special. They're bassy, warm, smooth and with slightly recessed mids. Unfortunately they lack clarity and sparkle and makes a pretty unengaging and dull listening experience. If you're looking for something with a similar signature I'd suggest the YINJW DIY IE800, they share the same overall signature but has much better clarity and details.
> 
> I'd put them on pair with the ED9 in overall perforamance, just a very different signature so it really depends on what you're looking for.


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions guys! Last thought, cos I'm trying to clean up my spending spree and buy phones out of necessity instead of want... 
  
 Would you say it's a good idea to buy the ZS1s when I've already got ATEs and Rock Zircons otw? I'm looking for something with a different signature.... I'm more of a soundstage+clarity/detail guy... bass is nice to have, but not a basshead


----------



## sgl54

turkleton said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys! Last thought, cos I'm trying to clean up my spending spree and buy phones out of necessity instead of want...
> 
> Would you say it's a good idea to buy the ZS1s when I've already got ATEs and Rock Zircons otw? I'm looking for something with a different signature.... I'm more of a soundstage+clarity/detail guy... bass is nice to have, but not a basshead



The ATEs don't have quite the sound stage and clarity of the Zs1's but it's not a huge difference but it's there but I also think the ed9 have more clarity the the ATE. The Zs1's have a little more then either. But keep in mind ir took me a couple weeks to get that sound from them. I'm convinced there's more room for improvement in both clarity sound stage in them. Should at least be approaching the level of the Zn1's. I ordered spinfits for them as it seems to be all about tips. Should be here this weekend, then I'll know better.


----------



## ajaxender

turkleton said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys! Last thought, cos I'm trying to clean up my spending spree and buy phones out of necessity instead of want...
> 
> Would you say it's a good idea to buy the ZS1s when I've already got ATEs and Rock Zircons otw? I'm looking for something with a different signature.... I'm more of a soundstage+clarity/detail guy... bass is nice to have, but not a basshead


 
  
 ZS1 have a wide soundstage (limited in height though), detail is there but its a very full sound so imaging and clarity suffer a little. ED9 strikes me as a better choice if you're looking for something else. HDS1 and ED3M Youth are worth looking into too, by all accounts so far.


----------



## sgl54

ajaxender said:


> ZS1 have a wide soundstage (limited in height though), detail is there but its a very full sound so imaging and clarity suffer a little. ED9 strikes me as a better choice if you're looking for something else. HDS1 and ED3M Youth are worth looking into too, by all accounts so far.



I have to agree with ajaxender on considering the Ed9's. They seem to work well for everyone , are tunable, easy to drive and are plug and play. It's a Kz everyone should consider owning. It's also one of the three Kz's I bought a duplicates of to have around as backups.


----------



## RedTwilight

turkleton said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys! Last thought, cos I'm trying to clean up my spending spree and buy phones out of necessity instead of want...
> 
> Would you say it's a good idea to buy the ZS1s when I've already got ATEs and Rock Zircons otw? I'm looking for something with a different signature.... I'm more of a soundstage+clarity/detail guy... bass is nice to have, but not a basshead




Soundstage and clarity? Sounds like a Havi B3 Pro 1.


----------



## sgl54

redtwilight said:


> Soundstage and clarity? Sounds like a Havi B3 Pro 1.



Redtwilight is right, soundstage, clarity the Havi's B3p1 have it in spades and work extremely well with the Xduoo. The only Kz that comes close are the Zn1's and they're very close. Of course it doesn't help much with bringing a spending spree in line. Havi's low $60's Zn's low $30's, but the Havi's are my favorites, natural clean and incredible sound stage.


----------



## Turkleton

ajaxender said:


> ZS1 have a wide soundstage (limited in height though), detail is there but its a very full sound so imaging and clarity suffer a little. ED9 strikes me as a better choice if you're looking for something else. HDS1 and ED3M Youth are worth looking into too, by all accounts so far.


 
  


sgl54 said:


> The ATEs don't have quite the sound stage and clarity of the Zs1's but it's not a huge difference but it's there but I also think the ed9 have more clarity the the ATE. The Zs1's have a little more then either. But keep in mind ir took me a couple weeks to get that sound from them. I'm convinced there's more room for improvement in both clarity sound stage in them. Should at least be approaching the level of the Zn1's. I ordered spinfits for them as it seems to be all about tips. Should be here this weekend, then I'll know better.


 
 ED9s are being shipped to me as we speak, as are ED10..
 Already In my cart:  HDS1, ED3 Youth version(due to Igor Eisberg's glowing review of them), ATE
  
 Someone posted a place selling ZS1 for 10 bucks, but im kinda worried bout build quality... I think i might hold out on the ZS1s until my xiaomi hybrids arrive.
  
  
 Just in case tho..What are these spinfits you speak of and how do I get them?


----------



## Turkleton

redtwilight said:


> Soundstage and clarity? Sounds like a Havi B3 Pro 1.


 
  


sgl54 said:


> Redtwilight is right, soundstage, clarity the Havi's B3p1 have it in spades and work extremely well with the Xduoo. The only Kz that comes close are the Zn1's and they're very close. Of course it doesn't help much with bringing a spending spree in line. Havi's low $60's Zn's low $30's, but the Havi's are my favorites, natural clean and incredible sound stage.


 
  
 Man..... I could just not order the KZs and get the B3p1, but I really wanna get those extra KZs just for the hell of it haha
 Variety's the spice of life!
  
 TBH, the top of my current wishlist is the LZ A2... The VE Dukes are my real phone crush but at 200 bucks a pop I think my wife is gonna give me an earful considering I just bought my pistons 3 3 weeks ago haha


----------



## Podster

redtwilight said:


> Soundstage and clarity? Sounds like a Havi B3 Pro 1.




Ditto!! You can still get the for $49.99 if you shop wisely


----------



## Turkleton

podster said:


> Ditto!! You can still get the for $49.99 if you shop wisely


 
 Damn all you guys....
  
 Just in case I change my mind, is this the right one?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HAVI-B3-Pro-1-ProI-Dual-Driver-High-Fidelity-Quality-Inner-Ear-Earphones/32331139844.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9


----------



## Turkleton

Ok, it seems I cant post a link yet since I'm a new member...
  
 Just in case I change my mind and I decide that its better to have one quality hottie instead of 3 normal babes... is this the right havi b3 pro 1? Store in Ali express, China HiFi Online
  
 You need to search "havi b3" to find it... searching "havi b3 pro 1" only reveals two hits.


----------



## sgl54

turkleton said:


> ED9s are being shipped to me as we speak, as are ED10..
> Already In my cart:  HDS1, ED3 Youth version(due to Igor Eisberg's glowing review of them), ATE
> 
> Someone posted a place selling ZS1 for 10 bucks, but im kinda worried bout build quality... I think i might hold out on the ZS1s until my xiaomi hybrids arrive.
> ...



There is a review on this site of spinfits. There is some form of joint between the head ( mushroom end) and the sleave ( slips over the earphone) and allow the head to swivel and readily align with your ear canal. Sorry if my explination isn't real clear as I have only seen pictures. They look like they'll help with my difficulty get the Zs1's aligned correctly each time. The Zn's have identical looking ear peaces but without memory wire, there easy for me to fit. Tracking shows them being delivered this weekend, I actually ordered from amazon.


----------



## sgl54

turkleton said:


> Ok, it seems I cant post a link yet since I'm a new member...
> 
> Just in case I change my mind and I decide that its better to have one quality hottie instead of 3 normal babes... is this the right havi b3 pro 1? Store in Ali express, China HiFi Online
> Just so it's the Havi B3 pro 1 as opposed to the B3 pro 2's ( very different signature) there wonderful and pretty much what I use as a reference for everything else.
> ...


----------



## Carlsan

ajaxender said:


> ZS1 have a wide soundstage (limited in height though), detail is there but its a very full sound so imaging and clarity suffer a little. ED9 strikes me as a better choice if you're looking for something else. HDS1 and ED3M Youth are worth looking into too, by all accounts so far.


 

 I thought the KZ ZS1's actually sounded quite good, clarity and detail better than the ED9. I used comply type tips and got a perfect seal. 
 Built quality on them was fine, I didn't notice any build problems, but then again they only cost me $18 so expectations were low. Sound quality was much higher than what I was expecting.


----------



## sgl54

carlsan said:


> I thought the KZ ZS1's actually sounded quite good, clarity and detail better than the ED9. I used comply type tips and got a perfect seal.
> Built quality on them was fine, I didn't notice any build problems, but then again they only cost me $18 so expectations were low. Sound quality was much higher than what I was expecting.



They do sound good, it's just harder to find the right tips to make them work. I haven't tried the comply tips. Decided to try spinfits. I bought them at the $18 level as well but my expectations were pretty high. Although I've read of quality control problems but fortunately haven't experienced any.The build quality on both my Zn's and Zs's is very good. My expectations were based on my Zn1's, which I find very good. The sound issues I'm experiencing are simply due to tip and positioning with the memory wire. Consequently I'm still looking for more of an improvement and will hopefully get to where you are with yours. I fully expect I will but I can't really say there very good yet.


----------



## peter123

turkleton said:


> Man..... I could just not order the KZs and get the B3p1, but I really wanna get those extra KZs just for the hell of it haha
> Variety's the spice of life!
> 
> TBH, the top of my current wishlist is the LZ A2... The VE Dukes are my real phone crush but at 200 bucks a pop I think my wife is gonna give me an earful considering I just bought my pistons 3 3 weeks ago haha




Looks like a good list to me 

I've seen the Havi B3P1 as low as $41 on 11/11 sale at AE.....


----------



## Suneth

I've been out of the loop for sometime and i went through several pages and now i'm bit confused.
  
 11.11 Sale coming up and i can see some good deals coming up. how these IEM's sound compared with KZ ATE's
  
 KZ ZS1
 KZ ED10
 KZ ED11


----------



## fallrsk

turkleton said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I'm guessing the extra noise comes from the low impedance? Checked, ED10's are at 16ohms.. not necessarily low haha
> 
> Hence why most high end phones usually are on the 32ohm spectrum?



Yeah, I believe that's ultimately what it comes down to.. Well, I'll be ordering the zs1, anv and a pair of monk's for the 11.11 sale (I ordered from HCKexin so I'm sure I didn't receive a false pair) and I guess I'll see if they have the same results.. Looks like I'll need a new amp, unless i say to hell with it and just grab a pair of Havi's instead of 3 or 4 more kz's lol!

That being said, I have no idea what headphone amp I'd need to get for low impedance phones..


----------



## Ruben123

Most of the time no amp is needed for low impedance headphones.


----------



## fallrsk

I'd agree, except for the fact that with a dac it's either line out (which I've found  dead silent, noise wise) or through the opamp which seems to be super noisy.. Maybe it'll get remedied by a powered usb hub.
  
 Either way, the longer I listen, the more I enjoy the resolution of the phone but it seems more apparent there's a V sound signature as I listen.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

Boys and girls, it's here!
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-HDS2-6-MM-Headphones-Fone-De-Ouvido-Earphone-Auriculares-Steelseries-Go-Pro-Audifonos-dj-Earphones/234124_32530156740.html


----------



## mebaali

igor eisberg said:


> Boys and girls, it's here!
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-HDS2-6-MM-Headphones-Fone-De-Ouvido-Earphone-Auriculares-Steelseries-Go-Pro-Audifonos-dj-Earphones/234124_32530156740.html


 
 It doesn't looks like coming from official KZs. Most likely yet another name pouching by QKZ. BTW, the design reminds me of Yamaha EPH100 (at least from the outlooks).


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> Boys and girls, it's here!
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-HDS2-6-MM-Headphones-Fone-De-Ouvido-Earphone-Auriculares-Steelseries-Go-Pro-Audifonos-dj-Earphones/234124_32530156740.html


 
  
 Yeah...modified QKZ logo at the top, random ED3 info dispersed throughout, EPH-100 shell, "real" photo.....the sketch is real. I'm sure Horton can verify it's legitimacy.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

mebaali said:


> It doesn't looks like coming from official KZs. Most likely yet another name pouching by QKZ. BTW, the design reminds me of Yamaha EPH100 (at least from the outlooks).


 
 I know it looks similar to Yamaha. Still, don't be so sure about what you're saying, because it's also hard to find any official evidence of KZ ED11.
 But if you look at the official KZ store, scroll down to ATE Youth Version & ED9 Youth Version, you'll see it says KZ HDS2, probably "coming soon" next to it. It is possible there's a debut-agreement between the seller and KZ, or KZ is just slow at updating their official store.
 Anyhow, it looks legit and I already ordered it.
 The "QKZ" never bothered me because I'm familiar with the brands of all of these "QKZ" products (KZ, Plextone, Beevo, Phrodi, Hoco, FONGE, ROCK).


----------



## fallrsk

igor eisberg said:


> I know it looks similar to Yamaha. Still, don't be so sure about what you're saying, because it's also hard to find any official evidence of KZ ED11.
> But if you look at the official KZ store, scroll down to ATE Youth Version & ED9 Youth Version, you'll see it says KZ HDS2, probably "coming soon" next to it. It is possible there's a debut-agreement between the seller and KZ, or KZ is just slow at updating their official store.
> Anyhow, it looks legit and I already ordered it.
> The "QKZ" never bothered me because I'm familiar with the brands of all of these "QKZ" products (KZ, Plextone, Beevo, Phrodi, Hoco, FONGE, ROCK).




Yeah, I thought i was the only one that caught the random modified QKZ logo.. KZ never used the logo until this popped up, so why would they now? They have their own logo-esque "KZ" in a rectangle, i doubt they'd randomly use that.. Nonetheless it could be a solid iem, real KZ or not.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

fallrsk said:


> Nonetheless it could be a solid iem, real KZ or not.


 
 That's what I'm about to find out when they arrive.
 By the way they just change their QKZ logo to KKZ logo, it still doesn't mean it's not legit, they just put their own weird logos everywhere.


----------



## DaveLT

Placed order for the ED10 and the ZS1.


----------



## DarkStorm90

darkstorm90 said:


> I'm currently using Sony MH1C and KZ EDSE. Already ordered Rock Zircons and Xiaomi Hybrid based on enthusiastic reviews. I want also order a pair of Yinjw ie800 wood for their praised bass and I can't decide between KZ ZS1 and KZ ED11 (I'm waiting for 11/11 sale on AliExpress). Could someone give me an advice? Thank you


 

 up? or perhaps both ZS1 and ED11 are not worth it considering the other iems i'm waiting for?


----------



## CADCAM

I'm going to post this question on both threads just to get an idea of peoples opinions~
  
 KZ HDS1 or ROCK Zircon 
  
 no specific genres...just as an affordable IEM...


----------



## Lohb

Sooooo, anyone else getting the 11/11 price on ali in their shopping cart...?
  
  
 I'm still at the pre-sale price in my cart unless their is a 'special'
 way to checkout sale items....


----------



## Maxima7

It hasn't started yet.


----------



## Lohb

maxima7 said:


> It hasn't started yet.


 

 chomp...chomp....hurry up ali...


----------



## fallrsk

I have the ED10's and the ED11's are supposedly the exact same driver + tuning.. It's nothing short of an awesome EDM machine. ZS1 is supposed to be totally out of your head but not as hi res from what I've heard? I'm ordering a pair of ZS1's for 11.11 along with Zircon's and maybe B3 pro 1's.. Can't make up my mind.
  
 Also, wearing the ED10's for an extended period of time really bothers my ears. The notches that come out and hold the iem's in place put a ton of pressure on my ears but has subwoofer-like bass.


----------



## 1clearhead

fallrsk said:


> I have the ED10's and the ED11's are supposedly the exact same driver + tuning.. It's nothing short of an awesome EDM machine. ZS1 is supposed to be totally out of your head but not as hi res from what I've heard? I'm ordering a pair of ZS1's for 11.11 along with Zircon's and maybe B3 pro 1's.. Can't make up my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
I have 2 ED10's and 2 ED11's and I can say that both ED10's and ED11's sound different to one another. Not in such a big way like day and night, but does make a difference with the genre of music you probably hear daily. The 2 ED11's is less mid-focused, less aggressive and harsh and is very detailed on top, while the ED10's would be contrary in those points mentioned.

While tip-rolling could help the ED10's, the ED11's definitely has better definition and better high-end soundstage presence.


----------



## ajaxender

Regarding the HDS2, this page from the official flagship store seems to imply that its legit, but KZ themselves are still in the process of selling it in bulk:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZN1-Headphones-Amplifier/1358152_32448339883.html
  
 (yeah it says KZ-ZN1, not an error. Some copy-pasting going on I assume). 
  
 edit: or maybe this one is the official flagship store (since 2002!!!):
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387
 either way, haha


----------



## fallrsk

ajaxender said:


> Regarding the HDS2, this page from the official flagship store seems to imply that its legit, but KZ themselves are still in the process of selling it in bulk:
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZN1-Headphones-Amplifier/1358152_32448339883.html


 
 Man, are those ugly.. Does anyone recommend the Tuna ANV/KZ CKW Pro? I'm about to drop the hammer on Zircon's, ZS1 and possibly ANV's but I rarely see posts on them.


----------



## fallrsk

Tried to quote ajaxender until I got a notice saying I can't post links..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Does anyone know is the Tuna ANV/KZ CKW Pro is worth getting along with Zircons? I'm about to finalize my 11.11 purchase but can't decide whether to grab the ANV/CKW Pro or not since I'll be getting the Zircons.


----------



## CoiL

ANV (2014/2015 version) is with different signature and is one of the most flat/neutral KZ IEM. Definitely worth to get imo.


----------



## Turkleton

bhazard said:


> Start small. A phone is plenty fine for using a KZ iem on.
> 
> Start by purchasing ear tips that other people have recommended (JVC Spiral Dots, Auvio, Sony Hybrids, Lunashops, Sennheiser Biflanges) until you find ones that fit your ear perfectly. The tips that come with the KZ aren't always good.
> 
> If you want a boost in sound quality for everything, you can then jump to a $99 or so USB DAC (c-entrance mini) if your phone supports it. You'll then continue to feed your upgraditis addiction until you come to your senses or *your wallet empties*.


 
 LoL this is what Head Fi does to you mannnnnnnn
  
 But I really gotta say thanks to all of you... I had bought a pair of Philips Citiscape Uptowns a few years ago and it's been pretty underwhelming.. Until I read about the Sansa Clip and tried my wife's cheapo chinese mp3 player... Whoa! I had been playing music off my laptop and mobiles so these babies werent getting the juice they needed!That's what got me looking at the Xduoo X2 and maybe (thanks to this thread) the USB Sabre Android DAC if I feel like it's too much to lug around a phone, DAP, power bank and a few pairs of IEMs
  
 This place has got my wallet by the balls haha


----------



## davi99

can anybody compare

 Ate vs ed9 (gold filters)
 hds1 vs zs1


----------



## davi99

any difference in ate and ate(youth version)
 ed3 youth version worth to buy?


----------



## CoiL

davi99 said:


> can anybody compare
> 
> Ate vs ed9 (gold filters)


 
 Different signature and hard to comare those. Both are very good but probably both won`t fit for everyone taste. I prefer ATE over ED9 due to its smooth non-fatigue signature with great mids and tinybit larger soundstage than ED9. ED9 is brighter (on the edge for me without foam-mod) and has more treble energy and sparklier sound.
  
 ATE vs. ATE YV ...no idea but so far haven`t notice any comments about them being different. Silver ATE(s) and translucent black ATE(b) sound littlebit different in my experience, probably due to different plastic shell used.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> ANV (2014/2015 version) is with different signature and is one of the most flat/neutral KZ IEM. Definitely worth to get imo.




I can't +1 this enough. The ANV is a fantastic earphone. Constantly in debate as to whether it really is my fav KZ when I compare it to the ED10 (currently listed as my fav).


----------



## fallrsk

b9scrambler said:


> I can't +1 this enough. The ANV is a fantastic earphone. Constantly in debate as to whether it really is my fav KZ when I compare it to the ED10 (currently listed as my fav).




How would you rank the zs1's against them though? The ED10 is growing on me but seriously pains my ears to wear.


----------



## Chief Stringer

davi99 said:


> can anybody compare
> 
> 
> Ate vs ed9 (gold filters)
> ...




I dont find the treble on the ed9s fatiging (alot here seem too though), i think for detail and vocals (espically spoken word videos / podcasts) the treble on the ed9s brings out vocals better than the ate, i however find i prefer the sub bass of the ate to the more midbass centered ed9 (for hip hop), also to me the ate with foam tips is more comfortable than the ed9, just more awkward to put in and remove, hope that helps


----------



## CADCAM

chief stringer said:


> I dont find the treble on the ed9s fatiging (alot here seem too though), i think for detail and vocals (espically spoken word videos / podcasts) the treble on the ed9s brings out vocals better than the ate, i however find i prefer the sub bass of the ate to the more midbass centered ed9 (for hip hop), also to me the ate with foam tips is more comfortable than the ed9, just more awkward to put in and remove, hope that helps


 
 I agree 1000%. I love the detail of the ED9 and the highs are not too much for me with a good recording and clean source. It was (and still may be) my favorite KZ until my HDS1 arrived.
  
 I also love the ATE's smooth sound signature but the design makes it tough to get them in and keep them where I want. I feel like I'm adjusting the ATE every few minutes... the ED9 just stays put. I have both and think they both are a tremendous value but the ED9 gets more time just by way of its design.


----------



## B9Scrambler

fallrsk said:


> How would you rank the zs1's against them though? The ED10 is growing on me but seriously pains my ears to wear.




My ZS1 has yet to arrive to fortunately. I was expecting it to arrive last week, but now I'm not sure when it'll get here. I expect the ZS1 and ANV to be very different, but I'll post impressions at some point. Maybe someone else can chime in on this if they have both?


----------



## iLovePanda265

Can anyone post a link for the newest version of the anv? Thanks


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Zs1 fo 10.55 $ is Worth? Better than ATE?


----------



## Maxima7

> Can anyone post a link for the newest version of the anv? Thanks


 
  

  
 http://www.miniinthebox.com/kz-anv-3-5mm-in-ear-moving-coil-fashion-noise-cancelling-hifi-headphone_p2762762.html
  
 It's these. I believe any that look like that are the 2014 version. Cheapest I could find with a quick search. Since it's not being produced, the price has increased significantly in most places. I only paid $8 for mine, and they even gave me a hard case.


----------



## joemama

rafaelroxalot said:


> Zs1 fo 10.55 $ is Worth? Better than ATE?


 

 Personally IMHO, yeah. Keep in mind that my opinions are based on an OOTB listen of the ZS1s (finally got them today and haven't gotten a chance to do a proper burn-in). But that price is a steal (I paid $18).


----------



## tazmako

wow can you find price at10.55$  i pay 19us and receive it 2day ago.
  
  
 sound is good for non burn-in.
  
 problem for me is tips not fit for my ear.


----------



## Arvan

My KZ ATE arrived today..Pretty comfortable! The cable is good but not as good as the EDSE.
  
 I did not expect this much bass but its fairly under control. But they are quite dark and my personal taste is much brighter and with more treble energy. Still a good buy for..almost nothing


----------



## rafaelroxalot

tazmako said:


> wow can you find price at10.55$  i pay 19us and receive it 2day ago.
> 
> 
> sound is good for non burn-in.
> ...




Because of 11.11


----------



## fallrsk

Search AliExpress for Tuna ANV, they're rebranded KZ's. They're $12 today and usually $24.. I don't know if I wanna jump on them still.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

I want to buy zircon and. Kz zs1 both costs 10.55 today, worth guys? And mula for 5.75 $... Or any other options?
I liked ttpod t1e before and edse and havi b1p...
I didnt like much the xe800 vivo too bright... Not much kzs es...


----------



## fallrsk

I just ordered the zs1 and zircon, I personally see no need to get mula since zircon will probably be my go to for on the go and zs1 mostly for gaming.. Those two are definitely worth it being half off.


----------



## rjbell

Had a bit of fun today. I've gone from owning zero pairs of headphones to 9 pairs.


----------



## DaveLT

I ordered an ATE off aliexpress. No idea how it's so much cheaper on AE but there you go.


----------



## ayao

I couldn't resist the 11.11 sale and ordered the ZS1 for $10.80. I hope it has similar amounts of sub-bass as the passive ZN1.


----------



## vad0s

Guys, Im going to order two more IEMs. I'm considering ED9,HDS1,ATE,ZS1... which should I choose? Please any fast advice til the 11/11 sale runs out? I like fun sound, doesn'ť have to be too much balanced. I'm going to listen DnB,Rap, so I'd prefer more bass. Thanks a lot.


----------



## ajaxender

vad0s said:


> Guys, Im going to order two more IEMs. I'm considering ED9,HDS1,ATE,ZS1... which should I choose? Please any fast advice til the 11/11 sale runs out? I like fun sound, doesn'ť have to be too much balanced. I'm going to listen DnB,Rap, so I'd prefer more bass. Thanks a lot.


 
  
 ED9 and ZS1. ATE is not bass focussed, and I don't have HDS1 (yet) but others impressions have not indicated a bass monster.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vad0s said:


> Guys, Im going to order two more IEMs. I'm considering ED9,HDS1,ATE,ZS1... which should I choose? Please any fast advice til the 11/11 sale runs out? I like fun sound, doesn'ť have to be too much balanced. I'm going to listen DnB,Rap, so I'd prefer more bass. Thanks a lot.




Shouldn't rule out the ED10. Highest quality bass of the KZ bunch imo.


----------



## vad0s

b9scrambler said:


> Shouldn't rule out the ED10. Highest quality bass of the KZ bunch imo.


 
 I already have the ED10 and Zircons should arrive in few days. Alright, I get it. ATE is more balanced than these 3 others.. I'm going to order the ED9. So.. ZS1 or HDS1?


----------



## DangerClose

vad0s said:


> I already have the ED10 and Zircons should arrive in few days. Alright, I get it. ATE is more balanced than these 3 others.. I'm going to order the ED9. So.. ZS1 or HDS1?


 
  
 ZS1 is on a big sale and is interesting with dual drivers.  So I think you kind of have to get that one.


----------



## ajaxender

I'll give a disclaimer that ZS1 can be tricky to fit well and get a seal, has memory wire from the earpieces which can be annoying, and has rather poor isolation. But the bass is damn good man. I really enjoy DnB with it. Worth $10 to find out if it works for you.


----------



## Chief Stringer

ajaxender said:


> I'll give a disclaimer that ZS1 can be tricky to fit well and get a seal, has memory wire from the earpieces which can be annoying, and has rather poor isolation. But the bass is damn good man. I really enjoy DnB with it. Worth $10 to find out if it works for you.




**** it gonna order a pair


----------



## Chief Stringer

chief stringer said:


> **** it gonna order a pair




Edit: ordered a button / mic pair for £7.66 , really cant go wrong with these prices, so these the bassiest kz's compared to their latest models?


----------



## ajaxender

Overall, I'd say so. But more in a sub-bass, rumbling way than straight impact or decibel level.


----------



## Chief Stringer

ajaxender said:


> Overall, I'd say so. But more in a sub-bass, rumbling way than straight impact or decibel level.




Sounds good man


----------



## CoiL

arvan said:


> My KZ ATE arrived today..Pretty comfortable! The cable is good but not as good as the EDSE.
> 
> I did not expect this much bass but its fairly under control. But they are quite dark and my personal taste is much brighter and with more treble energy. Still a good buy for..almost nothing


 
 Then You should go for ED9, imo. ATE doesn`t have boosted bass, they are just with darker signature, smooth highs (but detailed) and very open/large soundstage. That`s why it`s not possible to say one is better than other - different signatures for different personal preferences.


----------



## dwayniac

I have the Yamaha EPH-100,think it's the best iem that I own but I would buy the HDS2 just to compare the two.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

What tips do you guys use on your ATE
 I've noticed that they are always really shallow no matter what I put on them and that seems to be affecting the treble
 Also gonna send my ED9's back as you know one of the phones doesn't have a cover thing over the driver and now one of the gold filters glue has come off and the thing has fallen inside it (I don't know all the technical names)


----------



## Ruben123

How's the HDS1 guys? Less warm than ATE but also less peaky than ED9? From what I understood the ZS1s are not what many hoped for! Pity.


----------



## sgl54

coil said:


> Then You should go for ED9, imo. ATE doesn`t have boosted bass, they are just with darker signature, smooth highs (but detailed) and very open/large soundstage. That`s why it`s not possible to say one is better than other - different signatures for different personal preferences.



I'll second that, the ed9 has that bright signature you describe . While I have had zero quality control issues the 9's seem to have a more consistent level of quality and sound signature. everybody no matter which nozzle they use describe the same signature. They are still one of my favorites ahead of the Zs's and behind the Zn1's and ny preferred signature sounds close to yours.


----------



## CoiL

maggotbasshead said:


> What tips do you guys use on your ATE
> I've noticed that they are always really shallow no matter what I put on them and that seems to be affecting the treble
> Also gonna send my ED9's back as you know one of the phones doesn't have a cover thing over the driver and now one of the gold filters glue has come off and the thing has fallen inside it (I don't know all the technical names)


 

 What size tips do You usually use? You can find some recommendations from this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/7185#post_12049674


----------



## sgl54

ruben123 said:


> How's the HDS1 guys? Less warm than ATE but also less peaky than ED9? From what I understood the ZS1s are not what many hoped for! Pity.



Don't have the HDS1's sorry but I think your correct on the Zs1's OOB they don't meat expectations . I had such a good experience with the Zn1's I really expected something close. They simply require much more fusing with than anything I've owned. But I know there's better noise there yet and haven't given up yet.


----------



## sgl54

maggotbasshead said:


> What tips do you guys use on your ATE
> I've noticed that they are always really shallow no matter what I put on them and that seems to be affecting the treble
> Also gonna send my ED9's back as you know one of the phones doesn't have a cover thing over the driver and now one of the gold filters glue has come off and the thing has fallen inside it (I don't know all the technical names)



I'm using the red whirlwinds and they do seem to fit shallower than other tips. The reds have a smaller aperture than the blues but doesn't change that subtly veiled singnature but balance to overall signature for me. Plus I find them very comfortable.
Sorry to hear about the 9's and I just posted there seems to be less problems with them then others. I have two pair and both are solid.


----------



## davi99

hey, i ordered ed2 and it came to Turkey in 8 days. It is in Istanbul a.t.m. It was fastest shipment i ever had. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It will take couple days more till i touch the goods since our post service is slow, but whatever.


 4 days (getting ready for shipment)
 8 days (on the way to Turkey)
 3 days(probably) (on the way to my home)

 total 15 days.


 it isn't bad, huh?


----------



## Sathindra

Does anyone know that ed10 is actually kz product? It is not available in kz flagship store and any of the product description in aliexpress does not have typical kz way of describing the product. There's no photo of exploded view of inside of the earphone. ATE,ed9,ed8 even the hds1 does have same description. Reason I asking this is I had similar experience with I very IS-1. There is a seller name Zexus in aliexpress who sells as genuine IS-1. He also just show photos that he has taken, non of them were company provided photos, similar to most of the listings of ed10. I have ordered one and turned out they are fake. I am only interested in buying genuine kz product. Can anyone help me out?


----------



## Trapok

Got the HDS1 today, it is really small next to the ZN1


----------



## Trapok

sathindra said:


> Does anyone know that ed10 is actually kz product? It is not available in kz flagship store and any of the product description in aliexpress does not have typical kz way of describing the product. There's no photo of exploded view of inside of the earphone. ATE,ed9,ed8 even the hds1 does have same description. Reason I asking this is I had similar experience with I very IS-1. There is a seller name Zexus in aliexpress who sells as genuine IS-1. He also just show photos that he has taken, non of them were company provided photos, similar to most of the listings of ed10. I have ordered one and turned out they are fake. I am only interested in buying genuine kz product. Can anyone help me out?


 

 I think all KZ ED10 you found on ali are legit, i don't think there are fake KZ ED10, unless you find it priced at 1 or 2$


----------



## sgl54

sathindra said:


> Does anyone know that ed10 is actually kz product? It is not available in kz flagship store and any of the product description in aliexpress does not have typical kz way of describing the product. There's no photo of exploded view of inside of the earphone. ATE,ed9,ed8 even the hds1 does have same description. Reason I asking this is I had similar experience with I very IS-1. There is a seller name Zexus in aliexpress who sells as genuine IS-1. He also just show photos that he has taken, non of them were company provided photos, similar to most of the listings of ed10. I have ordered one and turned out they are fake. I am only interested in buying genuine kz product. Can anyone help me out?



I haven't heard of anyone saying the ed10's aren't Kz or are fakes. The Ed11's on the other hand have had rumors that they my be ed10 interals shelled by another company. For some reason a phone not showing up on the flagship store has happened before. But I think your safe they've showed up at all the other usual Kz resellers while I can't say the same for the Ed11's.


----------



## smugglersun

Hello, i wanna buy something for max 13$ In JD.com (10$ coupon). What do you recommend? Im listening to rock, metal etc.
 KZ ATE with mic, or ED3, or HDS1 etc?
  
 http://en.jd.com/product/761044.html
 http://en.jd.com/product/813153.html
 http://en.jd.com/product/814593.html
 http://en.jd.com/product/825197.html


----------



## Ruben123

Are HDS1s (much) more light weight than ED9s? Mine keep falling out of my ears (producing much wax but due to heavy ED9 they fall much easier than others).
  
 Also is isolation any better on HDS1?


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Are HDS1s (much) more light weight than ED9s? Mine keep falling out of my ears (producing much wax but due to heavy ED9 they fall much easier than others).
> 
> Also is isolation any better on HDS1?




I'd say tip dependent and yes, much lighter than ED9's


----------



## Ruben123

Well if it's lighter it will for sure stay in my ears. And isolation is tip dependent, but overall? Same or better than ED9?


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Well if it's lighter it will for sure stay in my ears. And isolation is tip dependent, but overall? Same or better than ED9?


 

 Well for my ears the HDS1 (only been listening to them for a week now) is just a little less bright in the highs but I like my highs and of all my KZ's (8 flavors) the ED9 is still my favorite and I deal with the weight issue by going over ear


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Well for my ears the HDS1 (only been listening to them for a week now) is just a little less bright in the highs but I like my highs and of all my KZ's (8 flavors) the ED9 is still my favorite and I deal with the weight issue by going over ear


 
 I'm tossed up between the HDS1 and Ed9 brass...they both are great and I don't have an issue with the ED9 fit or weight. I'm only sitting in a chair listening though you must be moving around.


----------



## Ruben123

Even when only sitting down they don't stay  they work their way out all the time. 
Lighter buds tend to stay in longer, shorter ones too. I find my ed9s to be sort of warm but as I found out there may be varieties . HDS1 is interesting but less treble than my ed9s isn't a good thing per se. A bit better isolation and lighter build are nice though.


----------



## raybone0566

ruben123 said:


> Even when only sitting down they don't stay  they work their way out all the time.
> Lighter buds tend to stay in longer, shorter ones too. I find my ed9s to be sort of warm but as I found out there may be varieties . HDS1 is interesting but less treble than my ed9s isn't a good thing per se. A bit better isolation and lighter build are nice though.


that sounds like the tips you are using are to big. I usually use tips that will compress and I can insert in the ear canal then they are snug and that prevents any movement. Just a suggestion


----------



## Trapok

ruben123 said:


> Well if it's lighter it will for sure stay in my ears. And isolation is tip dependent, but overall? Same or better than ED9?


 

 With the stock tips, I m not sure, that it will stay better in your ears, it is very much lighter than ED9, and isolation is so so(with the stock tips too)


----------



## fallrsk

Funny that someone brought up the ed10's being fake.. The actual only "proof" is KZ label being on the 90 degree bed plug, the KZ "trademark" cable and then the name in cursive "g.k" also being on the plug and then the box that it comes in.. Meh, sounds great either way.


----------



## Carlsan

coil said:


> ED10 and ED11 should be exactly same and use same drivers... though, ed11 isn`t legit KZ version, it is "tuned" by other resellers, so, no-one can be sure of their legitimacy.


 
  
 I contacted _the AliExpress Store:_KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store - and asked them 


> ```
> Hi, Would you mind telling me, is the KZ ed11 an official KZ earphone? I do not see it in your listings. Could it be that you are out of the KZ ed11? thank you
> ```


 
  
 Response was

```
is customized version，also design by KZ.
```
  
 So it is designed by KZ as a customized version.... whatever that means. Still it is a KZ product.


----------



## Lohb

Can any of you suggest a headphone that sounds like ED9 for my friend ? Such as a Superlux model ?
 My friend wants to hook into an electric piano.


----------



## DaveLT

Superlux only has 1-2 good uns and they're not really well made. If you want a good superlux buy their headphones.


----------



## CoiL

carlsan said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ED10 and ED11 should be exactly same and use same drivers... though, ed11 isn`t legit KZ version, it is "tuned" by other resellers, so, no-one can be sure of their legitimacy.
> ...


 

 Ali sellers can say and claim anything they think appropriate when it comes to selling. Though, they may be right, Horton "member of KZ trade" told ED11 is customized by ED10 resellers and not official KZ product. IDK, who`s right or wrong and we probably won`t know for sure.


----------



## Lohb

davelt said:


> Superlux only has 1-2 good uns and they're not really well made. If you want a good superlux buy their headphones.


 

 Yes, he is looking for a headphone not earphone, thanks.


----------



## smugglersun

smugglersun said:


> Hello, i wanna buy something for max 13$ In JD.com (10$ coupon). What do you recommend? Im listening to rock, metal etc.
> KZ ATE with mic, or ED3, or HDS1 etc?
> 
> http://en.jd.com/product/761044.html
> ...


 
 up


----------



## DaveLT

lohb said:


> Yes, he is looking for a headphone not earphone, thanks.



Ah I see. My suggestion is either the 668B or the 662. The 662 is more balanced with heavier and deeper bass but it's sound isn't quite as spacious.


----------



## davi99

i dont think ed9 has fitting problem. small sizes were too small and med size were too big for my ear canal. but i think finding best eartips is the way to go. just make a small research about earcanal and eartips. i think no matter the weight of iem, a good tips is everything you need.


----------



## CoiL

davi99 said:


> I think no matter the weight of iem, a good tips is everything you need.


 
 This is subjective and personal. I don`t think so. ED9 is pretty heavy-weight but deep insertion with small tips and over-ear wearing can help. ANV is another example. Very hard to find great medium size tips for such short nozzle and weight is also pretty heavy.
  
 Btw, just took a photo of my favourite small size tips collection for small ears/ear-canals:

  
 Some are still coming...


----------



## DaveLT

What is that transparent w/ blue insert tip?


----------



## CoiL

Huawei honor tips. Only come with IEM itself (that`s why I bought it). Fake honors are dirt cheap though. Huast H10 also has this kind of tips but in different color and probably softer silicone.
  
 So far my very favourite are:
 2nd from left - white very soft silicones with very wide bore. Most comfy ones I have.
 3rd from left - JVC spiral dot smallest.
  
 There are other favs also depending on IEM but these are the ones that fit very good for all the IEM`s I have and give great SQ results.
 That lonely-one is also very good (Philips UE) but haven`t tested them much because one already broke while pulling it off IEM - it has very thin and soft silicone.
 Will order them again along with Huast H10 tips and probably some others too...


----------



## Lohb

coil said:


> Huawei honor tips. Only come with IEM itself (that`s why I bought it). Fake honors are dirt cheap though. Huast H10 also has this kind of tips but in different color and probably softer silicone.
> 
> So far my very favourite are:
> 2nd from left - white very soft silicones with very wide bore. Most comfy ones I have.
> ...


 
 Have you tried spinfit ones from Japan ? Someone on another thread saying they were really good.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Huawei honor tips. Only come with IEM itself (that`s why I bought it). Fake honors are dirt cheap though. Huast H10 also has this kind of tips but in different color and probably softer silicone.
> 
> So far my very favourite are:
> 2nd from left - white very soft silicones with very wide bore. Most comfy ones I have.
> ...




Do you have the Huast H10? They're pretty awesome. I bought a second pair during the 11.11 sale for 7 CAD  

The tips are actually pretty different than the Huawei ones, but they are very comfortable and made with higher quality rubber. The core is really small though so they'll be a tight sqeeze to fit on normal sized iem stems.


----------



## raybone0566

lohb said:


> Have you tried spinfit ones from Japan ? Someone on another thread saying they were really good.


Medium spin fits are excellent. A bit pricey imo. But very good


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Huawei honor tips. Only come with IEM itself (that`s why I bought it). Fake honors are dirt cheap though. Huast H10 also has this kind of tips but in different color and probably softer silicone.
> ...


 

 No I don`t have them, yet. So different tips from honor? Can You post pic next to eachother please? If They are with small core, I might ditch buying them.
 Will get spinfits for sure in future.


----------



## Lohb

raybone0566 said:


> Medium spin fits are excellent. A bit pricey imo. But very good


 

 Is it purely the fit of them that is unique or they improve the SQ as well ?
 They just look like the 6 sets tips you get on ali for a few dollars...nothing special from photos...


----------



## wastan

lohb said:


> Can any of you suggest a headphone that sounds like ED9 for my friend ? Such as a Superlux model ?
> My friend wants to hook into an electric piano


 
 There is the KZ LP3. Others have been unimpressed, but I like mine for casual listening.


----------



## CADCAM

lohb said:


> Can any of you suggest a headphone that sounds like ED9 for my friend ? Such as a Superlux model ?
> My friend wants to hook into an electric piano.


 
 I have the 668b and EVO's...neither sound like the ED9. The 668 is more detail oriented and neutral while the EVO is very bass oriented. Out of the box the EVO is bloated and wooly sounding but after a foam mod they sound surprisingly good! I really like the ED9 and it may be my favorite IEM after HDS1 and Zircon but if I had to pick between my two Superlux I'd prob pick the EVO for the fun factor. I don't know what type of music your friend listens to but the EVO is great with rock and metal. As for an electric piano...


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> Superlux only has 1-2 good uns and they're not really well made. If you want a good superlux buy their headphones.


 
 For the 40 bucks or so I paid each for my Superlux's (668 & EVO) they seem well enough made. Had them for well over a year now and no issue's.


----------



## raybone0566

lohb said:


> Is it purely the fit of them that is unique or they improve the SQ as well ?
> They just look like the 6 sets tips you get on ali for a few dollars...nothing special from photos...


I believe it is a combination of bore hole size & fit which combines to improve the sound. Not saying one tip is better than the other. I personally get better results from these.


----------



## DaveLT

cadcam said:


> For the 40 bucks or so I paid each for my Superlux's (668 & EVO) they seem well enough made. Had them for well over a year now and no issue's.


 
 Was talking about their IEMs.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I just ordered HDS1. They look like they won't fall out of my ears!


----------



## peter123

They're small enough to fall in


----------



## sgl54

Update in the Zs1's. Recieved the spinfit 360's, I had ordered to remedy my tip issues. What a huge difference they make. Beyond being comfortable I no longer have to struggle with fitment at all. Just put them in and they work. That's saying nothing about sound quality, which is now almost neutral across the board. Solid bass, possibly recessed mids and clear highs. Sound is now closer to the Zn1's signature. Sound stage does feel smaller though. It will take a little bit and a range of music to figure it out but they are definatly no longer destined to remain zipped in their case in a drawer.


----------



## MizBuzzer

My KZ ATE finally arrived and all the hype around it in this thread is real. 
 http://i66.tinypic.com/5d6po8.jpg


----------



## JohnVoight

Ok. So a simple question for all owners. I've been eyeing KZ iems for a while now but don't know which one to buy for my musical tastes. I own a fiio x1 and my playlist is 80% bassy dance music and rest is death metal. I own the Meelectronics M6 Pro and also the soundmagic ES18. M6 pro being my expensive pair and es18 being the cheap ones. Considering this, which KZ iem would be better and can you compare them with the ones I have? Also I don't want the over ear style.
Thanks 

Edit: The m6 pro have awesome clarity but lack in bass whereas the es18 lack in overall clarity compared to m6 pro.
So what I want is an iem that has the clarity of m6 pro with better and punchy thumping bass.


----------



## sgl54

johnvoight said:


> Ok. So a simple question for all owners. I've been eyeing KZ iems for a while now but don't know which one to buy for my musical tastes. I own a fiio x1 and my playlist is 80% bassy dance music and rest is death metal. I own the Meelectronics M6 Pro and also the soundmagic ES18. M6 pro being my expensive pair and es18 being the cheap ones. Considering this, which KZ iem would be better and can you compare them with the ones I have? Also I don't want the over ear style.
> Thanks
> 
> Edit: The m6 pro have awesome clarity but lack in bass whereas the es18 lack in overall clarity compared to m6 pro.
> So what I want is an iem that has the clarity of m6 pro with better and punchy thumping bass.



Given your unfamiliar with the Kz range and sound signature. I would recommend the Ed9. With the sound quality and interchangeable nozzles it would be the best bet. Aside from the obvious sound quality it will give you a good reference point for the rest of the range. It is often reference point used to describe the other sound signatures.


----------



## fallrsk

Hey John I'd say go for the ED10's, they're the only pair i have but man is the bass awesome. It's like having subs in your ears, with a slight V signature without fatiguing high (to my ears.)


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> No I don`t have them, yet. So different tips from honor? Can You post pic next to eachother please? If They are with small core, I might ditch buying them.
> Will get spinfits for sure in future.




The iem is still worth getting, but the cable sucks. Here's that pic you wanted


----------



## CADCAM

sgl54 said:


> Update in the Zs1's. Recieved the spinfit 360's, I had ordered to remedy my tip issues. What a huge difference they make. Beyond being comfortable I no longer have to struggle with fitment at all. Just put them in and they work. That's saying nothing about sound quality, which is now almost neutral across the board. Solid bass, possibly recessed mids and clear highs. Sound is now closer to the Zn1's signature. Sound stage does feel smaller though. It will take a little bit and a range of music to figure it out but they are definatly no longer destined to remain zipped in their case in a drawer.


 
 I just ordered the ZS1 and always use small tips... every now and then I use a medium, could you give a link to the spinfit tips? I looked on Amazon and they are more $ than the hp's...


----------



## davi99

hey guys. i am interested in eartips, but dont know which one is best for universal wear. i mean, i bet you will see eartips here that you will recommend to others. so please check this link, and paste link of recommended product.

 http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?shipCountry=TR&shipFromCountry=&shipCompanies=&SearchText=eartips&exception=&minPrice=&maxPrice=&minQuantity=&maxQuantity=&isFreeShip=y&isFavorite=n&isRtl=yes&isOnSale=n&isBigSale=n&similar_style=n&similar_style_id=&CatId=0&g=y&initiative_id=SB_20151114104716&isAffiliate=y&needQuery=n&isOnlyAffiliate=y


----------



## DaveLT

Ok, I have my eye set on one last KZ (Hard to say really they're all poison).
  
 HDS1 or EDSE?


----------



## davi99

davelt said:


> Ok, I have my eye set on one last KZ (Hard to say really they're all poison).
> 
> HDS1 or EDSE?


 
 i heard hds1 is better than edse in all aspects. but wait for people who used them both.


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> I just ordered the ZS1 and always use small tips... every now and then I use a medium, could you give a link to the spinfit tips? I looked on Amazon and they are more $ than the hp's...:eek:



Sadly I don't have an alternate link. I bought them from Amazon (for the delivery time) so "yes" basically the same price I paid for the Zs1's . I did get two pair at that price, so half the price of them. Something I'm not sure I would have done if I hadn't been very curious about the spinfits ( very positive reviews) and wasn't determined to find a solution to my Zs fitment issues. They ( the spinfits ) are surprisingly good and truly make some phones shine ( Zs1's, Inearpeace, Mee 151's ). Others like Havi they make no diffrence at all. The thread with the spinfit review has some links and if I recall one of them had an initial 5 dollars off for signing up for there site.


----------



## CADCAM

davi99 said:


> i heard hds1 is better than edse in all aspects. but wait for people who used them both.


 
 HDS1 is better in all aspects. I use my EDse's for the gym (they are great) and the HDS1 on my home system for "real" listening.


----------



## TwinACStacks

cadcam said:


> HDS1 is better in all aspects. I use my EDse's for the gym (they are great) and the HDS1 on my home system for "real" listening.


 






 I've always favored the EDSEs of all my KZ stuff. The ANV's have the best sound EQ But they are extremely uncomfortable for me to wear longer than about 10 minutes or so.
  
 Just think of how pissed I would be if I had the $$$$ Tied up in the Real CKW1000 ANVs though....
  








 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

twinacstacks said:


> I've always favored the EDSEs of all my KZ stuff. The ANV's have the best sound EQ But they are extremely uncomfortable for me to wear longer than about 10 minutes or so.
> 
> Just think of how pissed I would be if I had the $$$$ Tied up in the Real CKW1000 ANVs though....
> 
> ...


 
 The EDse is the first IEM that seems to sound better from my Sansa Clip than my home setup~ Beresford Capella amp, Beresford Bushmaster MKII DAC & NAD C542 cd player. They sound absolutely amazing through the Clip but the ED9 and HDS1 are superior sounding (to me) at the house. I do have red driver screens on my EDse. I have some nice full size cans but am not familiar with higher end IEM's.


----------



## CADCAM

sgl54 said:


> Sadly I don't have an alternate link. I bought them from Amazon (for the delivery time) so "yes" basically the same price I paid for the Zs1's . I did get two pair at that price, so half the price of them. Something I'm not sure I would have done if I hadn't been very curious about the spinfits ( very positive reviews) and wasn't determined to find a solution to my Zs fitment issues. They ( the spinfits ) are surprisingly good and truly make some phones shine ( Zs1's, Inearpeace, Mee 151's ). Others like Havi they make no diffrence at all. The thread with the spinfit review has some links and if I recall one of them had an initial 5 dollars off for signing up for there site.


 
 Are the Spinfits about standard size? When you ordered them in your size did they fit comfortably? I usually use small but some tips seem to run small and i need a medium. Just wondering if I'd be safe ordering small or if I'm better off with a medium...


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Has anyone got some KZ ZS1s?


----------



## B9Scrambler

lifted andreas said:


> Has anyone got some KZ ZS1s?




Still waiting on mine. They should arrive this week. Should....


----------



## DaveLT

cadcam said:


> HDS1 is better in all aspects. I use my EDse's for the gym (they are great) and the HDS1 on my home system for "real" listening.


 
 Pretty damn surprising for a positively microscopic 6mm driver


twinacstacks said:


> I've always favored the EDSEs of all my KZ stuff. The ANV's have the best sound EQ But they are extremely uncomfortable for me to wear longer than about 10 minutes or so.
> 
> Just think of how pissed I would be if I had the $$$$ Tied up in the Real CKW1000 ANVs though....
> 
> ...


 
  Hmm ...
 Quote:


davi99 said:


> i heard hds1 is better than edse in all aspects. but wait for people who used them both.


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> Pretty damn surprising for a positively microscopic 6mm driver


 
 The beauty of this is they are so cheap you can get them both and post your opinion.


----------



## CADCAM

Just went through all my iem's with my Stereophile Test CD and checked channel identification and all are wired correctly! I was pretty sure they were because I listen to a lot of the same material and would have picked up if players were out of position but it's nice to verify. Hopefully the ZS1 will be wired correct also.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Pretty damn surprising for a positively microscopic 6mm driver




You should try the JVC FXH30. Now that's a damn good 5.8mm driver.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

b9scrambler said:


> Still waiting on mine. They should arrive this week. Should....




Sweet mate, please let us know your impressions of them.


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> Just went through all my iem's with my Stereophile Test CD and checked channel identification and all are wired correctly! I was pretty sure they were because I listen to a lot of the same material and would have picked up if players were out of position but it's nice to verify. Hopefully the ZS1 will be wired correct also.



Where did you pickup the Stereophile test CD? I've used the Binaural ( which was listed in this thread) but would like something with a few more parameters. Thanks


----------



## JohnVoight

I just saw the new KZ hds2. Looks like a direct copy of Yamaha eph 100.
Is it legit? And how is the sound?


----------



## andione1983

johnvoight said:


> I just saw the new KZ hds2. Looks like a direct copy of Yamaha eph 100.
> Is it legit? And how is the sound?


they look nice keen to hear how they sound 

Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


----------



## davi99

i will order zircons and hds2


----------



## HiFiChris

lifted andreas said:


> Has anyone got some KZ ZS1s?


 


 Basically a ZN1 without the amp module but added ear guides.

 Don't have the time to focus on it at the moment, will probably by the end of this month. Treble is relatively smooth, the bass is heavily emphasised (~ 13 dB). Very wide and deep soundstage.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

hifichris said:


> Basically a ZN1 without the amp module but added ear guides.
> 
> 
> Don't have the time to focus on it at the moment, will probably by the end of this month. Treble is relatively smooth, the bass is heavily emphasised (~ 13 dB). Very wide and deep soundstage.




Okay thanks, I never tied the ZN1 either lol


----------



## HiFiChris

You should find some impressions by using the search function in this thread (desktop site required).


----------



## Lifted Andreas

hifichris said:


> You should find some impressions by using the search function in this thread (desktop site required).




Yeah i dont mind tbh. I bought some Rock Zircons and Mulas so was wondering if the ZS1 we're worth a shot as well.


----------



## bavinck

hifichris said:


> You should find some impressions by using the search function in this thread (desktop site required).




Mobile site allows search function as well.


----------



## HiFiChris

bavinck said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > You should find some impressions by using the search function in this thread (desktop site required).
> ...


 


 Oh, that's nice to hear. I didn't know that as my main mobile phone is currently sent in for repair (and it is the only one I use for web browsing). But when I rethink about it, I have already used the thread search function with my BlackBerry a few times, so yeah, I was wrong.


----------



## bavinck

hifichris said:


> Oh, that's nice to hear. II didn't know that as my main mobile phone is currently sent in for repair (and it is the only one I use for web browsing). But when I rethink about it, I have already used the thread search function with my BlackBerry a few times, so yeah, I was wrong.




I wish I could see info about people in mobile site though. Like post count and such.


----------



## wastan

johnvoight said:


> Ok. So a simple question for all owners. I've been eyeing KZ iems for a while now but don't know which one to buy for my musical tastes. I own a fiio x1 and my playlist is 80% bassy dance music and rest is death metal. I own the Meelectronics M6 Pro and also the soundmagic ES18. M6 pro being my expensive pair and es18 being the cheap ones. Considering this, which KZ iem would be better and can you compare them with the ones I have? Also I don't want the over ear style.
> Thanks
> 
> Edit: The m6 pro have awesome clarity but lack in bass whereas the es18 lack in overall clarity compared to m6 pro.
> So what I want is an iem that has the clarity of m6 pro with better and punchy thumping bass.




Moxpad X6 is exactly what you ask for. It's not KZ, but it does the job.


----------



## CADCAM

sgl54 said:


> Where did you pickup the Stereophile test CD? I've used the Binaural ( which was listed in this thread) but would like something with a few more parameters. Thanks


 

 I've had my version, Test CD2 for years, it came with a Stereophile subscription but you can get them on ebay. Nice to have on hand.


----------



## aaDee

These look nice, not sure about the sound though.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HOLY-SERPENT-HD-100-Noise-Isolating-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-Stereo-Music-Earphones-Headphones-w-Remote-Mic/2053432326.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.9.RLSG88&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2_79_78_77_91_80_61,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9


----------



## B9Scrambler

aadee said:


> These look nice, not sure about the sound though.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HOLY-SERPENT-HD-100-Noise-Isolating-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-Stereo-Music-Earphones-Headphones-w-Remote-Mic/2053432326.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.9.RLSG88&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2_79_78_77_91_80_61,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9




They're a take on the Official PSVita iem. The VITA version is actually a pretty solid earphone, and if you can find them sell for around 15 CAD. If those use the same drivers they'll be a solid buy.


----------



## Squalo

Those PS Vita ripoffs have been around for a while. Think someone here has tried them..
  
 About that HDS2... Do we know if those are legit? They are only sold by this seller marked as "KKZ" and are not on taobao and not sold directly by KZ.


----------



## B9Scrambler

squalo said:


> Those PS Vita ripoffs have been around for a while. Think someone here has tried them..
> 
> About that HDS2... Do we know if those are legit? They are only sold by this seller marked as "KKZ" and are not on taobao and not sold directly by KZ.


 
  
 Yes, they have been around for a while. Haven't seen any impressions though.
  
 I doubt those HDS2's are real KZs. That said, I bought them anyways hoping they sound at least as good as the replica EPH-100s I bought, but with a better cable.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

b9scrambler said:


> Yes, they have been around for a while. Haven't seen any impressions though.
> 
> I doubt those HDS2's are real KZs. That said, I bought them anyways hoping they sound at least as good as the replica EPH-100s I bought, but with a better cable.




I still reckon you should pick up some REAL EPH100s, just to see what all the fuss is about.


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> I've had my version, Test CD2 for years, it came with a Stereophile subscription but you can get them on ebay. Nice to have on hand.


 
 Thank you. Probably need to subscribe in any event. Any recommendations decent mobile audio magazine? Thanks again


----------



## erudite

Can anyone recommend a KZ for listening to contemporary hip hop?
  
  
 Would the Rock Zircon be worth considering as well?


----------



## B9Scrambler

lifted andreas said:


> I still reckon you should pick up some REAL EPH100s, just to see what all the fuss is about.




I completely agree 

Edit: I do love my replicas though. They have an amazing sound stage and with a minor eq boost, very addictive bass.


----------



## CADCAM

Don't know if this is the best place to post this question but I want to try the JVC Spiral Dot tips and usually use small tips but have used medium also.
 Does anyone know if they run small (or big) and if I should go with small or order small\medium? They have that SM option in between small and medium...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 any help?


----------



## joemama

cadcam said:


> Don't know if this is the best place to post this question but I want to try the JVC Spiral Dot tips and usually use small tips but have used medium also.
> Does anyone know if they run small (or big) and if I should go with small or order small\medium? They have that SM option in between small and medium...
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They run in S, MS (Medium-Small, M, ML (Medium-Large) and Large. They run on the smaller side. For example I ordered S and MS and the S were actually too small for my ears.


----------



## joemama

davelt said:


> Ok, I have my eye set on one last KZ (Hard to say really they're all poison).
> 
> HDS1 or EDSE?


 

 HDS1 FTW


----------



## Hisoundfi

squalo said:


> Those PS Vita ripoffs have been around for a while. Think someone here has tried them..
> 
> About that HDS2... Do we know if those are legit? They are only sold by this seller marked as "KKZ" and are not on taobao and not sold directly by KZ.


I haven't heard yet. I'm gna hold off until I see a legit KZ seller with them listed.


----------



## Hisoundfi

joemama said:


> HDS1 FTW


+1

EDSE is good but HDS1 is probably the best KZ to date imho


----------



## ajaxender

I have HDS2 on the way, a couple places had them on sale on 11/11. I bought from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1246446
  
 But I have nooooo idea which store(s) on Ali is the official KZ one so... will have to wait and see I guess.


----------



## destrozer

ajaxender said:


> I have HDS2 on the way, a couple places had them on sale on 11/11. I bought from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1246446
> 
> But I have nooooo idea which store(s) on Ali is the official KZ one so... will have to wait and see I guess.


 
  
 Looks like they used the Yamaha EPH-100 shells.


----------



## ajaxender

destrozer said:


> Looks like they used the Yamaha EPH-100 shells.


 
  
 Yeah I think thats why no-ones sure if they're 'true' KZ, since KZ tend to go for pretty unique designs.


----------



## ayao

ajaxender said:


> Yeah I think thats why no-ones sure if they're 'true' KZ, since KZ tend to go for pretty unique designs.


 
  
 hmm, I think KZ still has some earphone designs that are quite clearly based on other earphones. The most apparent one for me is the DT3, which looks a lot like the Fischer Audio Consonance. Some people said the ATE resembles the IM-70, the ED10's shape is like the KC06, and the ANV looks like the CKM1000.
 I'd still wait for Horton's confirmation though


----------



## peter123

cadcam said:


> Don't know if this is the best place to post this question but I want to try the JVC Spiral Dot tips and usually use small tips but have used medium also.
> Does anyone know if they run small (or big) and if I should go with small or order small\medium? They have that SM option in between small and medium...
> 
> any help?




I also use both small and medium tips usually and I tend to use both with the Spiral dots as well (with different IEM's). Not really helpful maybe but at least this is the way they work for me


----------



## Turkleton

hisoundfi said:


> I haven't heard yet. I'm gna hold off until I see a legit KZ seller with them listed.




I saw it listed in this store - www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152

Correct me if I'm wrong...Isn't this the legit seller on AE?


----------



## ajaxender

ayao said:


> hmm, I think KZ still has some earphone designs that are quite clearly based on other earphones. The most apparent one for me is the DT3, which looks a lot like the Fischer Audio Consonance. Some people said the ATE resembles the IM-70, the ED10's shape is like the KC06, and the ANV looks like the CKM1000.
> I'd still wait for Horton's confirmation though


 
  
 I own ED10 and KCO6A, I'd argue they're quite different. Can't deny similarities of the others though. 
  
 Either way, to me it looks like someone is taking advantage of being able to get a bunch of those shells, KZ or not. And also either way, I like tip-mounted micro-drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I'm looking forward to seeing how they do.


----------



## CoiL

hisoundfi said:


> HDS1 is probably the best KZ to date imho


 
 Depends from personal sound signature preference, gear, music etc. I wouldn`t say there is one best KZ. There are some different signatures and within those are some "best" ones.


----------



## Trapok

hisoundfi said:


> +1
> 
> EDSE is good but HDS1 is probably the best KZ to date imho


 

 I wonder if I am the only one to find that the sound of my HDS1 is a tad weak compared to my other KZ iems((not as loud as others) regardless of  sources I use?.....


----------



## Hisoundfi

trapok said:


> I wonder if I am the only one to find that the sound of my HDS1 is a tad weak compared to my other KZ iems((not as loud as others) regardless of  sources I use?.....


My preference is perceptual my friend. I can imagine some people finding them lacking in bass or not as full sounding as other KZ.


----------



## Trapok

hisoundfi said:


> My preference is perceptual my friend. I can imagine some people finding them lacking in bass or not as full sounding as other KZ.


 

 For sure, vs ZN1 it lack bass


----------



## nire1

Looking for running IEMs, does KZ has a sport model ?
 Any recommendation of other budget brands (for running)?


----------



## Turkleton

nire1 said:


> Looking for running IEMs, does KZ has a sport model ?
> Any recommendation of other budget brands (for running)?




KZ ATE's are for sports/running.

Their marketing pics show a girl running with the ATE's on


----------



## Hisoundfi

What makes me like the HDS1 isn't the initial sound when I pop them in my ears. 
  
 With a good sealing tip and deep insertion, after a while they just become incredibly natural sounding to my ears. 
  
 They aren't bass heavy at all, but once my ears and brain adjust to the low frequency response it is very adequate and doesn't seem to be lacking.


----------



## B9Scrambler

So, my Supervisor reached out to me last month to pick up some good, cheap headphones for her kids to use as beaters. KZ came to mind of course, so I brought in my collection to check out. She selected the ED10 and ED9. I managed to order the necessary ED10s, but the ED9s cost a bit too much for her at the time I was ordering (ie. over 13 CAD, haha).

Since the ED9s were out I picked a few random KZs to replace them; HDS1, ATE, and the ED8.

The ED8 came in on Friday, and of course I had to test them out to ensure they worked. Didn't want to give her a faulty product. I have to say, they are pretty darn awesome on first impressions. Yeah, they're massive and weigh a hundred thousand pounds, but they look imposing and their bass is hilariously fun. They offer up good detail and a spacious soundstage too. I was pretty surprised and ended up ordering a pair for myself. Hopefully I like them just as much once they get some serious ear time, not just a couple quick songs.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Just one last thing about the HDS1 (sorry guys not trying to beat a dead horse).
  
 The HDS1 also scales incredibly well. If you think the HDS1 is lifeless or sterile, try using your higher powered DAP, portable amplifier or DAC/AMP . I can almost guarantee you will hear something different and more dynamic than a lower powered device like a cell phone.
  
 Cheers


----------



## nire1

turkleton said:


> KZ ATE's are for sports/running.
> 
> Their marketing pics show a girl running with the ATE's on


 
  
 I noticed that, though the lack of some kind of clip makes me doubt the earphone wont fall during the run, any one has experience with it during sport/run ?
  
 I also couldn't find any info about its water/sweat resistant which is also important for running usage


----------



## satansmutt

I got my KZ HDS1s on friday and after actually laughing out loud when I opened them and saw just how small they are I wasn't holding out much hope on the sound quality but they sound fantastic they are my favorite KZs by a mile.
 I have had 5 pairs of KZ earphones and never really got on with any of them, either too much bass, sibilant splashy treble or a poor fit but these just sound so natural. Not too much bass, good mids, vocals sound excellent and great treble without any sharpness. They are also very light and comfortable I had them in for nearly 6 hours yesterday and hardly even noticed them. So far I have plugged them into my PC, Denon music centre, LG G3 phone but mostly into my IBASSO DX90 playing flacs and they sound excellent in all of them.
  
 So Hisoundfi keep beating that dead horse until more people buy these things and appreciate just how good they are.
  
 In the last 2 months I have bought the KZ HDS1s(£6) and the VE MONKs(£5) and they are some of the best sounding earphones I have bought for under £100 and are absolute bargains


----------



## HiFiChris

As I also said in the Asian Brand thread, the HDS1 sound incredibly well for the money and are probably my favourite KZ IEMs. I need more time though (other things have got a higher priority), but Ill probably manage to finish a short review on them by the beginning/mid of December.


----------



## mebaali

With over 100s of hours of usage, my KZ-R1s (using Piston 2.1s Medium size tips) are sounding absolutely amazing for 2 US$ that i had bought them for.
  
 OOTB Mid-bass bloat has greatly subsided with bass now being pretty punchy/faster to my ears. I could even feel a bit of sub-bass rumble when called for. Mids and Highs are pretty euphonic, getting better with each passing day of usage (may be just my brain-in or iem's burn-in, not sure). Soundstage depth and imaging are more than average (in fact pretty good). 
  
 Totally loving using these as my casual listening phones (also using these as my sleep time phones with Fiio X1 HO at 30% volume)
  
 (My audio setup for Casual listening - 3 years old Fujitsu laptop's headphone out + Foobar2000 using WASAPI output + volume @ 20%, Music - Mix of Post Rock, Industrial Rock, EDM, Alt Rock, Tamil Cinema OSTs MP3s/AACs 320 kbps, 256 kbps respectively)


----------



## Breezy

Picked up a pair of HDS2. Hope it turns out good... And is lighter than other KZ I've had.

I knew source could affect sound but I never knew it'd be so different with mobile sources. My iPad makes my ED3 sound bright-neutral and fairly bass anemic but refined. The Galaxy Note 2 makes it sound V-shaped and artificial but louder.


----------



## Trapok

hisoundfi said:


> Just one last thing about the HDS1 (sorry guys not trying to beat a dead horse).
> 
> The HDS1 also scales incredibly well. If you think the HDS1 is lifeless or sterile, try using your higher powered DAP, portable amplifier or DAC/AMP . I can almost guarantee you will hear something different and more dynamic than a lower powered device like a cell phone.
> 
> Cheers


 

 I m listening it using Foobar+AMP now ,but i have to turn up the potentiometer more than usual to get a decent sound. I didn't say that SQ is bad, i just say that sound is tad weak.


----------



## davi99

what do you recommend for pc with old motherboard? i have ALC662 chipset (p5kpl am se motherboard) do you think this is enough for feeding these earphones? if you have affordable dac recommendations, please tell me.


----------



## fallrsk

davi99 said:


> what do you recommend for pc with old motherboard? i have ALC662 chipset (p5kpl am se motherboard) do you think this is enough for feeding these earphones? if you have affordable dac recommendations, please tell me.


As said before, no amp's needed to run any of these phones due to 16 ohm resistances! With that being said, they'll practically be fine off of any audio source. If you want a cheap dac, get a topping nx2 or smsl m2, you'll pick up efi noise that you wouldn't hear in higher resistance phones (like pistons and other name brands) though.


----------



## ajaxender

nire1 said:


> I noticed that, though the lack of some kind of clip makes me doubt the earphone wont fall during the run, any one has experience with it during sport/run ?
> 
> I also couldn't find any info about its water/sweat resistant which is also important for running usage


 
  
 Yup don't pay attention to KZ's marketing in this case. I think half the IEM's you can find on Aliexpress will claim to be for sport. Most are lying.
  
 I have EDSE, RX, ED8, ED9, ED10, ATE, ZS1. The best for running or similar exercise is ED10, by a long way - the design slips in and stays in your ears, particularly if you use tips that seal well for you (the stock blue whirlwinds rarely work for me). I use UE600 style tips on them and they don't budge. 
  
 HDS1 and 2, and ED3 M (or Youth) seem worth looking at too, all being so small and simply designed they'll likely behave in the ear. I haven't received them yet though.


----------



## fallrsk

Also, +1 for ed10 when exercising. They never budge (unless I tug on the wires accidentally) and keep a good seal. Plus the sound signature of the bass really pumps me up lol!


----------



## davi99

ajaxender said:


> Yup don't pay attention to KZ's marketing in this case. I think half the IEM's you can find on Aliexpress will claim to be for sport. Most are lying.
> 
> I have EDSE, RX, ED8, ED9, ED10, ATE, ZS1. The best for running or similar exercise is ED10, by a long way - the design slips in and stays in your ears, particularly if you use tips that seal well for you (the stock blue whirlwinds rarely work for me). I use UE600 style tips on them and they don't budge.
> 
> HDS1 and 2, and ED3 M (or Youth) seem worth looking at too, all being so small and simply designed they'll likely behave in the ear. I haven't received them yet though.


 
 Especially HDS2 is promising. i cant wait to someone rewiev them.


----------



## peter123

davi99 said:


> Especially HDS2 is promising. i cant wait to someone rewiev them.




Eh, how can the HDS2 be more promising if noone haven't even reviewed it yet????


----------



## B9Scrambler

ajaxender said:


> HDS1 and 2, and ED3 M (or Youth) seem worth looking at too, all being so small and simply designed they'll likely behave in the ear. I haven't received them yet though.




ED3 is actually a pretty bulky and heavy earphone. I don't think they would be the best for physical activity. The other two are more likely candidates.


----------



## Squalo

I'm just going to say a few words about selecting an IEM for running and other exercise... IMHO YMMV and all that.
  
 Companies seems to like to make IEMs with rather large housing with long stems and market for running purposes. This gives the appearance of a large housing sitting in your ear, and a lot of the time this IEM will want to travel out... and break your seal. I have the ATE but haven't managed to make it seal yet in my ear, so can't comment too much on that. Instead opting for something small and light could be better for exercise, staying in place in your ear. Light IEMs are less inclined to move.
  
 HDS1 would probably be good. I haven't tried it because I do not have it yet, but it should be here soon as it was 3 weeks since I ordered it. (I do own similarly sized microdriver IEMs)
  
 I've used EDSE with foam tips today at the gym and it's absolutely fine. EDSE is quite light as I think it's a thin wall, much lighter than ED ES and ED9, etc.
  
 These are sub $10 IEMs and I do expect some to die of natural causes (sweat, that is), still better than buying something more expensive with worse SQ but some sort of sweat resistance. These are way more durable than you'd expect.


----------



## CADCAM

joemama said:


> They run in S, MS (Medium-Small, M, ML (Medium-Large) and Large. They run on the smaller side. For example I ordered S and MS and the S were actually too small for my ears.


 
 I ended up ordering medium-small (MS) and hope they fit correctly. Most small tips fit fine but others seem too small so I'm keeping my fingers crossed with these. What do you think about the Spinfits? I read that there are two versions and the Japanese are slippery?? and the Jaden spinfits are better...


----------



## joemama

cadcam said:


> I ended up ordering medium-small (MS) and hope they fit correctly. Most small tips fit fine but others seem too small so I'm keeping my fingers crossed with these. What do you think about the Spinfits? I read that there are two versions and the Japanese are slippery?? and the Jaden spinfits are better...


 

 I think you'll be OK with MS Spiral Dots. As for Spinfits, I've only had experience with the CP100, which I bought at earwerks.com (now empireears.com). I've used these on my ED9, ED10 and HDS1 with no problem. TBH I thought the Japanese and the Jaben were one and the same. Maybe someone with more experience can provide some clarification.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Sourodeep

Hello all audio-holics , I am at a dilemma , I have ordered the KZ-ATE , and I had the EDSE (Burned 150+ hours) , what significant differences am I going to find between the two , and can someone shed light on the KZ-ZS1 , and compare them with the KZ-ATE ? 
 Or will buying the  ZS1 be a better bet than the KZ-ATE 
 Genres I listen to (Broadly - Rock,Metal,Classical )
 I prefer the guitars and vocals to be a forward and then I prioritize the mids ( upper mids to be precise ) and then the   bass (I love tight punchy bass ), and a  good extended treble (Nor bright  neither laid back )
 So which one would be a better investment for me ? 
 KZ-ATE or the KZ-ZS1 ?
  Any help would be appreciated . Thanks .


----------



## CADCAM

sourodeep said:


> Hello all audio-holics , I am at a dilemma , I have ordered the KZ-ATE , and I had the EDSE (Burned 150+ hours) , what significant differences am I going to find between the two , and can someone shed light on the KZ-ZS1 , and compare them with the KZ-ATE ?
> Or will buying the  ZS1 be a better bet than the KZ-ATE
> Genres I listen to (Broadly - Rock,Metal,Classical )
> I prefer the guitars and vocals to be a forward and then I prioritize the mids ( upper mids to be precise ) and then the   bass (I love tight punchy bass ), and a  good extended treble (Nor bright  neither laid back )
> ...


 
 I'd get the KZ HDS1 & ROCK Zircons...both excellent for the money and different enough to give you options. BTW I also listen to Metal, Rock & Classical.


----------



## sgl54

sourodeep said:


> Hello all audio-holics , I am at a dilemma , I have ordered the KZ-ATE , and I had the EDSE (Burned 150+ hours) , what significant differences am I going to find between the two , and can someone shed light on the KZ-ZS1 , and compare them with the KZ-ATE ?
> 
> Or will buying the  ZS1 be a better bet than the KZ-ATE
> 
> ...



Yes there is a significant difference. Starting with the ATE, it's a nice phone, nice enough th have 2 pair but I primarily use the for sports and yard work. They're comfortable easy to drive, easy to use but I find that the are a little veiled. The Zn1's on the other hand have a larger sound stage and better detail. They are much harder to drive amd to wear. Now a little explination, I love my Havi b3p1's sound signature so bought Zn1's in lookjng for a kz in that range over time it necame very close. But the amp/eq doesn't lend itself to all around use. Bought the Zs1's hoping to find that signature in something easier to use. Tips can be an issue finally found what worked for me. But lots of effort and time but they sound very nice with a similar sound to the Zn1's the difference being ( something I probably wouldn't notice if I didn't use the Havi's and Zn1's daily) is that the have what I can knly describe as thinner sound. it's all there jhst not quite as rich as the Zn1's which aren't quite as rich as the Havi's. The Zn's I describe as 90 to 95% of the Havi's the Zs are 90% of the Zn1's. So yes the sounds better than the ATE they're just hard to get right and for me not a simple throw em on and go but for $12 they're very good they just don't fit that "use everywhere anytime that the ATE and the Havi's ( Havi's are to nice ok and expensive, for some situations) So if you can swing it get both, I think you'll enjoy the Zs mkre but use the ATE more often. Sorry for the length of the answer.


----------



## robvagyok

anyone of you guys have idea what's the difference (if there's any) between the regular ED3 and the youth version?


----------



## B9Scrambler

robvagyok said:


> anyone of you guys have idea what's the difference (if there's any) between the regular ED3 and the youth version?




I'll let you know when my 2015 ED3 arrives.


----------



## Sourodeep

cadcam said:


> I'd get the KZ HDS1 & ROCK Zircons...both excellent for the money and different enough to give you options. BTW I also listen to Metal, Rock & Classical.


 

  
 Ahh , interesting, I look'd into the Zircons , I love the design , and how do the zircons fair against KZ-ZS1 ? And niiice to know that you also listen to all those genres !


----------



## Sourodeep

sgl54 said:


> Yes there is a significant difference. Starting with the ATE, it's a nice phone, nice enough th have 2 pair but I primarily use the for sports and yard work. They're comfortable easy to drive, easy to use but I find that the are a little veiled. The Zn1's on the other hand have a larger sound stage and better detail. They are much harder to drive amd to wear. Now a little explination, I love my Havi b3p1's sound signature so bought Zn1's in lookjng for a kz in that range over time it necame very close. But the amp/eq doesn't lend itself to all around use. Bought the Zs1's hoping to find that signature in something easier to use. Tips can be an issue finally found what worked for me. But lots of effort and time but they sound very nice with a similar sound to the Zn1's the difference being ( something I probably wouldn't notice if I didn't use the Havi's and Zn1's daily) is that the have what I can knly describe as thinner sound. it's all there jhst not quite as rich as the Zn1's which aren't quite as rich as the Havi's. The Zn's I describe as 90 to 95% of the Havi's the Zs are 90% of the Zn1's. So yes the sounds better than the ATE they're just hard to get right and for me not a simple throw em on and go but for $12 they're very good they just don't fit that "use everywhere anytime that the ATE and the Havi's ( Havi's are to nice ok and expensive, for some situations) So if you can swing it get both, I think you'll enjoy the Zs mkre but use the ATE more often. Sorry for the length of the answer.


  

  
 Bro ,I appreciate it  got a lot of insight ,well I would love to get both but my pocket isn't going to like that ( undergrad student I am always poor) , but yeah I''ll definitely get both of them ,I think I'll order the ATE first  , I use a lot of public transportation and go around places , so it would suit better , I think IF I am able to safe more money I would definitely get the ZS1s too.


----------



## MizBuzzer

Is KZ ED2 and KZ EDSE same? Need a comfortable earphone. Currently own KZ ATE, but they don't fit well and kinda uncomfortable.


----------



## CADCAM

sourodeep said:


> Ahh , interesting, I look'd into the Zircons , I love the design , and how do the zircons fair against KZ-ZS1 ? And niiice to know that you also listen to all those genres !


 
 I'd hold off on the ATE...I have them, I like them but the HDS1 is better IMHO and prob cheaper too. The HDS1 resolves detail a bit better than Zircon but Zircon has more low end. Zircon are flat out fun to listen to. The HDS1 is like a ED9 that is lighter and more comfy. 
 ATE is smooth but dark and design is a pain IMO. I have the ZS1 ordered but not in yet.


----------



## DaveLT

Ordered an HDS1 yesterday. God am I excited. 

Here's what I have ordered :
ZS1, ED10, ATE, HDS1 and probably a EDR1 as a gift


----------



## MizBuzzer

Ordered the KZ ED10 with foam tips from here . Hopefully they will fit better than the KZ ATE.


----------



## mur3633

Hi,
 My first post here. I would like to buy KZ earphones from Aliexpress, but I can't decide which model to buy. I listen to Rock and Heavy Metal music. I recently bought JVC HA-FX1X from Aliexpress, but I didn't like them. That earphones had a good bass, but no mids, only trebles which caused a headache  . So, I would like to hear your suggestions on this KZ earphones. I liked KZ X6 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-R3-Metal-Version-Linear-HIFI-Fever-Earplugs-In-ear-Headphones-Professional-Sound-Quality-Heavy-Bass/1246446_32317352219.html .
 Thank you.


----------



## mur3633

Hi,
 I would like to buy this KZ earphones from Aliexpress, but i can't decide which model. I like KZ X6, but I don't know. I listen to Rock and Heavy Metal. I would like to hear your suggestions. 
 Thanks.


----------



## CADCAM

mur3633 said:


> Hi,
> I would like to buy this KZ earphones from Aliexpress, but i can't decide which model. I like KZ X6, but I don't know. I listen to Rock and Heavy Metal. I would like to hear your suggestions.
> Thanks.


 
 I like my EDse's from a Clip at the gym where I listen to a lot of heavier music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At home I like ED9 & HDS1... and if I want it a little darker sound with less highs I use ATE.
  
 Don't forget those Rock Zircons...


----------



## raybone0566

I'd look at ed9,10,or ate. Much better performers than x6. I only use those for yard work


----------



## sgl54

Just to add weight to the discussion. I'd also recommend the Ed9's 10's and Edse. The Ate as mentioned are darker, less detailed. If your new to Kz's in general, I recommend the Ed9's, the signature is is tunable ( switchable nozzels) with a very nice range. They work well with a variety of different music genre's. Between the other two the Edse's are nice and small ( Kz does micro drivers very well) and have a nice energetic signature. They edge out to Ed10 by a little for me anyway.


----------



## CADCAM

raybone0566 said:


> I'd look at ed9,10,or ate. Much better performers than x6. I only use those for yard work


 
 Hey *raybone0566* have you heard the HDS1? If so impressions...


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> Hey *raybone0566* have you heard the HDS1? If so impressions...



Yes please. You have a deft touch in describing these and how they fit with the rest of the line.


----------



## raybone0566

cadcam said:


> Hey *raybone0566* have you heard the HDS1? If so impressions...


I've got them, but honestly haven't spent much time with them. I can tell you they have retry good detail. Not a bass head earphone but enough for my personal tastes. Imuch prefer detail over bass slam these days. I'll bring hds1 to work tomorrow & post some more thoughts. I do prefer them over x6 though.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Hey *raybone0566* have you heard the HDS1? If so impressions...


 

 I know you asked RayBone but I have been listening to my HDS1's a lot and on my tour N5 they were very sweet and articulate, not quite as bright as my ED9's but still let all that mid section take the lead. Bass is not thump but true. For me they are like a Jr. version of the ED9 although I've ordered the ED9 youth to see what that's all about as well I mean by the title you would think the ED9 youth is the Jr. version
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like all the sub $15 KZ's they are well worth the money IMHO


----------



## ilikeiem

A bit off topic but just wanna thank *Horton*(Member of the Trade: Knowledge Zenith). I did participate in this thread a while ago. Today I've just received 2 wireless KZ earphones as a gift.
 Thanks again KZ.


----------



## DaveLT

mur3633 said:


> Hi,
> I would like to buy this KZ earphones from Aliexpress, but i can't decide which model. I like KZ X6, but I don't know. I listen to Rock and Heavy Metal. I would like to hear your suggestions.
> Thanks.


 
 Those are not from KZ but QKZ.


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> I know you asked RayBone but I have been listening to my HDS1's a lot and on my tour N5 they were very sweet and articulate, not quite as bright as my ED9's but still let all that mid section take the lead. Bass is not thump but true. For me they are like a Jr. version of the ED9 although I've ordered the ED9 youth to see what that's all about as well I mean by the title you would think the ED9 youth is the Jr. version
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yea I was just wondering why he wasn't suggesting them as well as the ED9 & ATE. I have them also (2 pairs) and realy like them. I find myself reaching for them over my ED9! 
 I did see the ED9 Youth and the one's I saw looks exactly like the regular ED9. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am thinking of getting the ED3 youth because it does look different than the ED3. I don't have either right now ED3 or ED3Y. Any input?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ilikeiem said:


> A bit off topic but just wanna thank *Horton*(Member of the Trade: Knowledge Zenith). I did participate in this thread a while ago. Today I've just received 2 wireless KZ earphones as a gift.
> Thanks again KZ.




Yay! They're pretty good actually. Easy to pair and the call quality is quite good. KZ also has instructions on how to use them posted on their site for those that are curious. Very handy.

Edit: 
www.kzearphone.com/English/html/3589014852.html


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Yea I was just wondering why he wasn't suggesting them as well as the ED9 & ATE. I have them also (2 pairs) and realy like them. I find myself reaching for them over my ED9!
> I did see the ED9 Youth and the one's I saw looks exactly like the regular ED9.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No sir, never picked up either of the 3's as I really need to lay off even the bargain KZ's for a while with Christmas coming. Not to mention I have 7 pair en-route now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Obviously my meds are no where strong enough for my urges
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So my ZS1's finally made it here just now and after my HDS1's got herre in their new earth conscience green box I thought What then my new ZS1's come in a black cardboard box just like the one the HDS1's were in and I've come to the conclusion it's one of three things at KZ!
  
 1.) They have truly gone green to help save the earth?
  
 2.) They realized they were selling $10 iem's in a $20 iem package usually reserved for $50 plus iem's?
  
 3.) Reality set in


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> No sir, never picked up either of the 3's as I really need to lay off even the bargain KZ's for a while with Christmas coming. Not to mention I have 7 pair en-route now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mine are on the way...please tell me these sound good. Take your time I want a real assessment. Also what size tips do you use?


----------



## Turkleton

Man..... Mine are still "Awaiting Shipment"
  
 The seller still has 4 days left of Processing Time, but cmon mannn... It's been 7 days already!!!


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


>


 

 Yo Cad, they are still in picture # 3 state but hopefully in the next couple days I can give you a little feedback. I will say I hope they sound as good as my new VJJ-B's , I was taken aback and was not expecting the VJJ's to sound very good and for me they can keep up with my ATE's with no problem plus I get a better fit/seal


----------



## davi99

turkleton said:


>


 
 where did you buy from?


----------



## davi99

podster said:


> Yo Cad, they are still in picture # 3 state but hopefully in the next couple days I can give you a little feedback. I will say I hope they sound as good as my new VJJ-B's , I was taken aback and was not expecting the VJJ's to sound very good and for me they can keep up with my ATE's with no problem plus I get a better fit/seal


 
 i hate to hear any earphone brand except KZ and Rock(Zircon)
 I see them all as overpriced ripoffs.


----------



## slowpickr

davi99 said:


> i hate to hear any earphone brand except KZ and Rock(Zircon)
> I see them all as overpriced ripoffs.


 
 Zircons are good ain't they!  Listening to them now.  I think they are very good in the detail retrieval department for a sub-$20 IEM.


----------



## fallrsk

So, my ZS1 and Zircon's arrived in NY today! Supposed to be a monday delivery to my home, hopefully they come sooner? Can't wait to try 'em out.


----------



## HiFiChris

Guys, forget what I said earlier about "ZS1 = ZN1 - amp module". Their sound signature differs audibly, especially in the treble. ZN1 > ZS1.

 ZN1 has the better mids, doesn't sound dark in the treble and has got more spatial width (and also a bit more depth). What the ZS1 does better is that the bass emphasis starts lower, but there is a transition between both drivers (can be slightly heard with a sine generator and seen on a measurement graph) -> bass sounds a little disconnected, not 100% coherent (~80%).

 ZS1 is not bad on its own, but the ZN1 is the better out of the two (ZS1 has got somewhat veiled mids, else sound is not really much worse than ZN1).


 EDIT: ZS1 has a narrower nozzle (a metal part narrows it on the inside) and the tweeter is not back-vented (the crossover sits on the back of it). No wonder why it sounds different.


----------



## EISENbricher

Received ZS1, HDS1 and ED11 today. I am very excited from initial impressions of all the three. 
  
 ZS1 is laid back, smooth and spacey. Needs a bit more power to drive.
 HDS1 is open, fairly balanced and textured.
 ED11 is punchy, aggressive and requires least power of the bunch to drive. 
  
 For comparison, on my Xduoo X2 for moderate perceived volume ED11 needs 13 ticks, HDS1 16 ticks and ZS1 21 ticks.
  
 Pics and more details coming soon.
  
 Rest assured, KZ has upped the game. Sheer variety amazes me. All these three releases sound totally different, has different form factors.


----------



## mur3633

What do you think, what is better ED9 or HDS1 ?


----------



## Turkleton

davi99 said:


> where did you buy from?




Shen Zhen Fly Red Electronics Co... I jumped on the 11/11 deal, 10.55 seemed too good an offer


----------



## robvagyok

davelt said:


> Those are not from KZ but QKZ.


 
 is QKZ a manufacturer?
 or they just put label on a product somebody else manufactures?


----------



## EISENbricher

mur3633 said:


> What do you think, what is better ED9 or HDS1 ?


 
 Certainly can't comment on that right now... I must give some quality listening time before I could comment on that. 
 Besides ED9 comes with two different sounding sets on nozzles. That makes direct comparison even more difficult.


----------



## davi99

turkleton said:


> Shen Zhen Fly Red Electronics Co... I jumped on the 11/11 deal, 10.55 seemed too good an offer


 

 she may have a lot of orders which occured in 11/11 deal, thus it may be reason of delay.
 But this is still negative thing and make me stay away from that seller.


----------



## CoiL

@EISENbricher , also interested about Your opinion on HDS1 vs. ED9 with brass nozzles. And also, if You have both, ED10 & ED11, can You compare if they sound different?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> @EISENbricher , also interested about Your opinion on HDS1 vs. ED9 with brass nozzles. And also, if You have both, ED10 & ED11, can You compare if they sound different?


 
 Sure. About ED11 and ED10, to me they sound almost similar. ED10's sound is from memory though... an unfortunate accident broke my ED10. Another pair of ED10 I have is imbalanced.


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> No sir, never picked up either of the 3's as I really need to lay off even the bargain KZ's for a while with Christmas coming. Not to mention I have 7 pair en-route now Obviously my meds are no where strong enough for my urges:blink:
> 
> So my ZS1's finally made it here just now and after my HDS1's got herre in their new earth conscience green box I thought What then my new ZS1's come in a black cardboard box just like the one the HDS1's were in and I've come to the conclusion it's one of three things at KZ!
> 
> ...



Inteeresting., my Zs1's came in a similar looking box with two notable differences. There were two boxes both were black/dark gray ( the box shown above ) was the outer box with and the other slid into it. Inside that secknd box was a zippered case black with red zipper ( lager than the Kz cases I purchased for my others) inside that were 2 sets of tips ( red and blue whirlwinds) and the Zs1's of course. The Zn1's came in a large plastic case ( rectangular jnstead of shield shaped) with plastic stand offs to hold the Zn's in place. I don't knoe why the difference other than I paid the premium price of $18 for the Zs1's.


----------



## sgl54

hifichris said:


> Guys, forget what I said earlier about "ZS1 = ZN1 - amp module". Their sound signature differs audibly, especially in the treble. ZN1 > ZS1.
> 
> 
> ZN1 has the better mids, doesn't sound dark in the treble and has got more spatial width (and also a bit more depth). What the ZS1 does better is that the bass emphasis starts lower, but there is a transition between both drivers (can be slightly heard with a sine generator and seen on a measurement graph) -> bass sounds a little disconnected, not 100% coherent (~80%).
> ...



That explains some of it, I knew the cross overs had to be different (passive and not as efficient) but don't understand why they changed the venting on the tweeter. The Zn1's have such a nice full signature , diffrent bass , lighter ( when not in passive "off" mode) which has gotten better over time. I have trouble describing the mids. They sound thinner to me not quite how I describe the veiled signature of the ATE. But probably the same thing just on a different order. I'm new enough to still be struggling with the nomenclature. I think I'd be more impressed with them if I had purchased them before getting the Zn1's . Thanks for the input ( so where do I drill the hole to back vent the tweeter?) Just kidding.


----------



## fallrsk

Wow, all these zs1 finds are starting to upset mw a little! I really wanted what seemed to be the great zn1 without the half assed amp assembly.. Does anyone know if it's possible to recable a zn1?.. Anyway, i planned on using the zs1 for gaming so hopefully the soundstage will work for me nicely.


----------



## chavez

IEM's for gaming? Ewww.


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> That explains some of it, I knew the cross overs had to be different (passive and not as efficient) but don't understand why they changed the venting on the tweeter. The Zn1's have such a nice full signature , diffrent bass , lighter ( when not in passive "off" mode) which has gotten better over time. I have trouble describing the mids. They sound thinner to me not quite how I describe the veiled signature of the ATE. But probably the same thing just on a different order. I'm new enough to still be struggling with the nomenclature. I think I'd be more impressed with them if I had purchased them before getting the Zn1's . Thanks for the input ( so where do I drill the hole to back vent the tweeter?) Just kidding.


 

 Well so far I'm kind of 80% in agreement with Chris on the ZS1 especially the bass. But after running my ZS1's on my X3II/Topping NX2 I'm inclined to believe just what I thought the first time I played them off my iPhone 6 was they needed juice to open up and that is just what happened, they are closer sounding to the ZN1's once they are amped but still heavy on the bass side. I put on some Dwight Yoakam which has very little bass signature the mids and highs of the ZS1's sound fine, at least to me they do! YMMV Listening to a little Dave Matthews right now and they are still a little bass heavy but I feel it's the engineering of my recording that the bass is bloated and not the ZS1's. So now I'm playing a little Depeche Agent Orange and I believe EDM/Trance lovers will find these to be very sweet iem's for the asking price and if you have EQ and can tweak all the better. As I mentioned before I like these better than my ATE's but once again that is my ears
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The orchestration on Dean Martin's "Return to me" sounds absolute fluid and like your right in front of them, they are still just a little on the bassy side but I'm sure can be tamed for any genre if one has EQ ability
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They have been sounding pretty good on rock and classic rock as well


----------



## Breezy

cadcam said:


> I ended up ordering medium-small (MS) and hope they fit correctly. Most small tips fit fine but others seem too small so I'm keeping my fingers crossed with these. What do you think about the Spinfits? I read that there are two versions and the Japanese are slippery?? and the Jaden spinfits are better...




I just got Spinfits, they're definitely more comfortable than the Hybrids, but sound wise the Hybrids win.

There are two versions, with one made out of more slippery silicone.

If you're worried about wasting a lot of your money, there's a member who sells them $10 a pair on eBay. 

I find that it's more comfortable to get one a little smaller in size so you can insert it deeper btw.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

b9scrambler said:


> I completely agree
> 
> Edit: I do love my replicas though. They have an amazing sound stage and with a minor eq boost, very addictive bass.




Oh yeah if you find those replicas so addictive you should definitely try the real thing. You won't wanna take them out of your ears.


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Inteeresting., my Zs1's came in a similar looking box with two notable differences. There were two boxes both were black/dark gray ( the box shown above ) was the outer box with and the other slid into it. Inside that secknd box was a zippered case black with red zipper ( lager than the Kz cases I purchased for my others) inside that were 2 sets of tips ( red and blue whirlwinds) and the Zs1's of course. The Zn1's came in a large plastic case ( rectangular jnstead of shield shaped) with plastic stand offs to hold the Zn's in place. I don't knoe why the difference other than I paid the premium price of $18 for the Zs1's.


 

 Well my HDS1's came like that, same tan color box within the outer box but not the ZS1's. Just went down to my front desk as it seems I'm getting iem's from China daily
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My running joke with the little girl at the front desk is "A package a day keeps the Dr. away" and I work at a Hospital/Teaching University
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh look Ma, more iem's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 ED9 Youth's (Currently trying to find a physical difference in the original ED('s) and Igor's Plextone X41M's. $19.55 shipped for both


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Well so far I'm kind of 80% in agreement with Chris on the ZS1 especially the bass. But after running my ZS1's on my X3II/Topping NX2 I'm inclined to believe just what I thought the first time I played them off my iPhone 6 was they needed juice to open up and that is just what happened, they are closer sounding to the ZN1's once they are amped but still heavy on the bass side. I put on some Dwight Yoakam which has very little bass signature the mids and highs of the ZS1's sound fine, at least to me they do! YMMV Listening to a little Dave Matthews right now and they are still a little bass heavy but I feel it's the engineering of my recording that the bass is bloated and not the ZS1's. So now I'm playing a little Depeche Agent Orange and I believe EDM/Trance lovers will find these to be very sweet iem's for the asking price and if you have EQ and can tweak all the better. As I mentioned before I like these better than my ATE's but once again that is my ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh yes definitely better than the ATE. I'll have to try some amplification. I basically have the same setup you do. Fiio X3 gen 2 but a Topping Nx1. Somehow I think it may be partly in how I'm looking at it going up ed3,ATE,Ed9 there is definably an  improvement. Coming back from the Zn1's it's not as good. So I have been describing the improvement I've been describing from not quite as good. which is probably a mistake as more folks have the ATE's, ED9's etc than the Zn1's. Hopefully this makes sense. Same position just from the other end.


----------



## wastan

Has anyone disassembled a KZ LP3 headphone yet? I was wondering how easily it came apart, how much I'd have to glue back together.


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Oh yes definitely better than the ATE. I'll have to try some amplification. I basically have the same setup you do. Fiio X3 gen 2 but a Topping Nx1. Somehow I think it may be partly in how I'm looking at it going up ed3,ATE,Ed9 there is definably an  improvement. Coming back from the Zn1's it's not as good. So I have been describing the improvement I've been describing from not quite as good. which is probably a mistake as more folks have the ATE's, ED9's etc than the Zn1's. Hopefully this makes sense. Same position just from the other end.


 

 So I know this is the KZ thread and I am about to drop this same photo over in Budget Rigs because these Plextone X41N's with their Brass shell and orange tips look so sexy with my Dignis case
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think KZ can give me a break though since I've bought like 10 pair of their iem's


----------



## whitebubbles

Which the best kz earphones ( bass & slow music ) and qkz vs kz different.


----------



## andione1983

I love my ed9s great overall sound, i think you will like them too ^

Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk


----------



## whitebubbles

Unfortunately KZ ED9's cable snapped.I even get twice ED9. It broke in two. I suppose the poor quality cables.
What do you think about ZS1?


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Well my HDS1's came like that, same tan color box within the outer box but not the ZS1's. Just went down to my front desk as it seems I'm getting iem's from China daily
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Now one would think the youth edition would be lighter or should that be heavier (tank like)? Haven't tried any of the Plextones, but I may not want to start down that road, I have enough trouble keeping up with Kz's. So earphones fall under the apples and herbal medicine umbrella? Ok, ok it's alright, I won't mention that to the Psych dept!


----------



## Podster

I'm going to AB tge originals and youths later tonight


----------



## B9Scrambler

Got my ED3 2015 and ZS1 today. Currently A/Bing the original ED3 and 2015 update. Not really enjoying it to be honest.
  
 They messed with the that mid/treble focused sound that I loved about the original, but kept the general signature. Treble is smoother which is nice, soundstage seems smaller but more airy....if that makes any sense? They cranked the bass - subbass especially. Normally I love my subbass but it just sounds weird coming from an ED3. Hopefully it'll settle down a bit with some additional play time. 
  
 I definitely hear where improvements were made, but they took away some of what I loved about the original. I hope they grow on me, but right now I'm not feeling them. 
  
 Now to check out the ZS1. (Edit: Holy crap these nozzles are wide. Threw on some large Sony Hybrids...already like them more than the ED3 2015.)


----------



## Igor Eisberg

podster said:


> So I know this is the KZ thread and I am about to drop this same photo over in Budget Rigs because these Plextone X41N's with their Brass shell and orange tips look so sexy with my Dignis case
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You might find the mids slightly weird sounding, but man that ear-shaking bass... these have some real special basshead quality.
 By the way, after X41M I decided to see what else Plextone have in stock.
 I have ordered the following:
  
 Plextone X37V (In-Ear)
 Plextone X42M (Earbuds)
 Plextone X43M (In-Ear)
 Plextone X44M (In-Ear)
 Plextone X55M (Earbuds)
  
 Lets see what they are made of.


----------



## slowpickr

igor eisberg said:


> You might find the mids slightly weird sounding, but man that ear-shaking bass... these have some real special basshead quality.
> By the way, after X41M I decided to see what else Plextone have in stock.
> I have ordered the following:
> 
> ...




Igor, you are the budget IEM KING!


----------



## gustav29

Hey reading this thread has convinced me to pick up a pair of ED9s.  
 Just trying to see who I should buy from that's reputable on Aliexpress?
  
 There is this link.  Seller: *Mr. He Yue*
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED9-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/1358152_32372852938.html
  
 and this sold by Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics Co
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/32372852938.html
  
  
 Should I be worried about differences in these 2 stores?


----------



## DaveLT

Anyone bought the hds2 yet? I'm on the fence about it. Seems rather pricey for a KZ


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Anyone bought the hds2 yet? I'm on the fence about it. Seems rather pricey for a KZ




A few of us have them on the way. Impressions will probably be coming in pretty soon I suspect


----------



## Igor Eisberg

b9scrambler said:


> A few of us have them on the way. Impressions will probably be coming in pretty soon I suspect


 
 Bought them the moment they appeared on AliExpress. Hope to review them soon.


----------



## fallrsk

chavez said:


> IEM's for gaming? Ewww.



Lol!! Well, between high resistance full sized phones and these low resistance iem's (which i find ultimately comfortable when playing PS4 for hours on end).. Just not enough juice without an inline headphone amp. When (if) I get HD598's I'll get a nice dedicated headphone amp or a nice amp/dac with line in, I'll use those babies nonstop.


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> Bought them the moment they appeared on AliExpress. Hope to review them soon.




Mine are on the way as well but I'll be one of the last to get them I'm sure. Shipping to Canada is slow as @$$. Haha


----------



## ajaxender

Most of my 11/11 haul is here - the stuff I bought from Shenzhen HCkexin. Just as my last purchase from them, it took 8 days for delivery. They're not only good, they're consistent. (@gustav29 they have the ED9 - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/1825606_32371911927.html - so unless you can find it cheaper, I'd recommend this seller)
  
From KZ, I got HDS1 and ED3 Youth. HDS2 is on the way, from a different seller (so it will likely be a while).
  
KZ must have heard we like boxes, so these each came stored in a box within a box, so you can box while you... sorry. Still, its a little odd; the outer box is the same as what my ZS1 came in except uncoloured (the ZS1 box is dark grey), with extended sides and rounded corners, and then theres a normal box that fits snugly inside. More protection? Who knows. 
  
 Alas! My ED3's right earpiece is missing the filter. It noticeably changes the sound between channels, so I will reserve judgement. I think I actually preferred the sound without the filter so if I can remove the other one I might be in luck, but if not it was $8 US. I think I'll survive.
  
 The HDS1... first, its pretty small, and I can't imagine many people will struggle with the fit. Cute looking little things, they are. Love the green colour. Standard KZ cable which is made slightly more annoying just because the ear pieces are so small and light. Isolation is not incredible, what with the vents at the back. Fits deep enough in the ear that wind noise is not much of a problem, though. 
  
 The sound is mid-focussed, and its pretty damn good at that. Very clear without being flat. Bass is lighter, but while the mid-bass will be too reserved for some, the sub-bass is not lacking. I'm not good yet at judging treble extension but I think its pretty good, and the sound is crisp... but sharp.
  
 Thats the one issue I have; I find the sound can be quite piercing. I'm not sure if its sibilance - s sounds are not extended - rather its the sharp sound you get at the beginning of some letters/words. Most noticeable with male vocals, which I also notice more often in real life for that matter, so this is something I don't have a high tolerance for.
 Not surprisingly, its also not the most forgiving sound for harsher recordings - although I don't think it sounds naturally harsh, just that harshness tends to be found in this area of the treble too, so it doesn't get any better. 
 I'm hoping some burn-in will help this, if its anything like the FXH-30 (also a microdriver, but different brands/builds/materials of course) it may reduce the treble in that area a little. Otherwise, tip-rolling. 
  
 Otherwise, its great sound for female or softer vocals, and quieter listening because its so clear. The overall signature is one I quite enjoy, focussed on mids and vocals with good extension in both directions for atmosphere. Soundstage is not large, but the layering and imaging of the HDS1 is flat out good - great for this price.


----------



## chavez

fallrsk said:


> Lol!! Well, between high resistance full sized phones and these low resistance iem's (which i find ultimately comfortable when playing PS4 for hours on end).. Just not enough juice without an inline headphone amp. When (if) I get HD598's I'll get a nice dedicated headphone amp or a nice amp/dac with line in, I'll use those babies nonstop.




Get Superlux HD681 EVO's in the meantime. I payed only 27 euros for them, best purchase in years.


----------



## joemama

davelt said:


> Anyone bought the hds2 yet? I'm on the fence about it. Seems rather pricey for a KZ


 

 Ordered it when it was on sale 11.11 for $9.99, That's about average. If it's too much, wait til after the 1st of the year when prices drop.


----------



## DaveLT

joemama said:


> Ordered it when it was on sale 11.11 for $9.99, That's about average. If it's too much, wait til after the 1st of the year when prices drop.


 
 Yea. I'm seeing it for 14$ these days.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Physical differences between the ED3 "Perfection" (original) and ED3 "The Acme" (2015 update).
  
 - Cable on The Acme is greatly improved. Best KZ cable since the EDse. Not sticky, very little memory.
  
 - Housing on The Acme is significantly lighter. They definitely do not have that premium feel of the original, especially given the back plates aren't raised, nor are they aligned correctly. They feel low budget in comparison, but not fragile. 
  
 - The pinhole vent where the strain relief enters the housing is slightly larger on the Perfection.
  
 - The nozzle on The Acme is longer than the original. That plus the weight loss should help improve fit.
  
 - Some crappy pictures!
  


  
  
 Sound Update!
  
 Letting The Acme burn overnight for around 8 hours was a great idea. They sound way more comprehensive than they did ootb. Treble has lost all graininess and the bass has tightened up. They do not offer up the balance, audiophile sound of the original, instead aiming for a crowd-pleasing bass-heavy sound. We'll see how they've shaped up by next Friday.
  
 The ZS1...I love these things. I was unsure of what to expect from other's opinions, but am very glad they ended up on my purchase list. Fit is a bit of a pain but once you've set the memory wire and chosen the right tips they are extremely comfortable. Small ears need not apply though. I think I've got pretty average sized ears and these edge the limits due to a bulky housing and extremely wide nozzle. 
  
  
  
 Big bass and spacious sound are what define them for me. Pending you are listening to have fun and not nitpick every detail, these should be a great buy for bassheads. They remind me of my old Creative 2.1 desktop speakers. Super smooth mids and treble, and massive thundering bass. These are extremely entertaining to my ears. Perfect for my favorite genre, liquid drum and bass.
  
 My current favorites, the JVC HA-FXH30, offer up a completely different sound and are a much more technically proficient earphone, but the ZS1 easily rivals them in the fun-factor department purely due to that brutal bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I'm sure I'll tire of it after the honeymoon period is over, but for now I'm supremely happy with them.


----------



## Podster

whitebubbles said:


> Unfortunately KZ ED9's cable snapped.I even get twice ED9. It broke in two. I suppose the poor quality cables.
> What do you think about ZS1?


 

 Hate to hear this as I've had no cable issues with any of my KZ and as far as I can tell KZ uses two types of cables on all my pairs, the solid bronze color like on these ED9's and the striped ones like on these ED11's (think I've mentioned it several times KZ must have 6 million linear feet of both)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 I never got either of the 3's B9 but I'm in 100% agreement on the ZS1's, for their price they are awesome and a Bass Heads dream. I think when you say Bass Head you scare a lot of potential buyers off but like you the ZS1's have good mids and highs but their bass does take the lead signature


----------



## chavez

Geez, ED3 look so good, I just want to buy them for their appearance :O


----------



## Podster

chavez said:


> Geez, ED3 look so good, I just want to buy them for their appearance :O


 
  
 For me the ED3 looks about the same as the HDS1's without the rear vents


----------



## chavez

On another note, I suggested Ed10's to my friend, in the end he had to buy 3 pairs, for him, his sister and his father lol. His father was blown away by the sound quality, he worked on a televisio ln before and is an avid jazz fan.And another friend bought ED9. Damn dem KZ are so good .Hopefully soon I will gather some money to get HDS1 or ZS1 or ED3, so many choices.


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Hate to hear this as I've had no cable issues with any of my KZ and as far as I can tell KZ uses two types of cables on all my pairs, the solid bronze color like on these ED9's and the striped ones like on these ED11's (think I've mentioned it several times KZ must have 6 million linear feet of both)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had no issues with my KZ's cables either. My original ANV had a side die out, but that was a failed driver and not the cable. That cable was donated to bringing my Marley Revolution back to life, lol.
  
 I definitely recommend picking up at least the original ED3. It's a good sounding KZ, and probably the most balanced of the bunch. Still undecided on "The Acme" (love that name), but I am warming up to it. 
  
 True, labeling the ZS1 as a basshead iem may ward of some potential buyers. That said, unless you are okay eqing them they'll probably have way too much bass for the average Head-fi'er. The general public would love em though. I can't wait to introduce these to people in my workplace. For a bassy iem they do have pretty good mids and treble. Messing around with the EQ you can make them more balanced, but then they're not as fun.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I've had no issues with my KZ's cables either. My original ANV had a side die out, but that was a failed driver and not the cable. That cable was donated to bringing my Marley Revolution back to life, lol.
> 
> I definitely recommend picking up at least the original ED3. It's a good sounding KZ, and probably the most balanced of the bunch. Still undecided on "The Acme" (love that name), but I am warming up to it.
> 
> ...


 
 Well the ZS1 can keep up maybe surpass any of Dr. Dre's Beats bass not to mention at 100 times less his prices
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think you have talked me into trying the original ED3's now and since I'm getting a pair of the new HDS2's because I can't let that Igor get the jump on me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL
  
 By the way I like the ACME name but I'm an old fart and the Roadrunner/Coyote cartoons were one of my faves


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> Physical differences between the ED3 "Perfection" (original) and ED3 "The Acme" (2015 update).
> 
> - Cable on The Acme is greatly improved. Best KZ cable since the EDse. Not sticky, very little memory.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Acme is actually the ED3 "youth edition" it seems. Not bad for something almost half the price. lol. (From KZ's pricing)


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Physical differences between the ED3 "Perfection" (original) and ED3 "The Acme" (2015 update).
> 
> - Cable on The Acme is greatly improved. Best KZ cable since the EDse. Not sticky, very little memory.
> 
> ...



Nice review and feedback thanks. I'm glad your still liking your Zs1's. I'm still mixed on them. Probably because they dropped out of the rotation and I'm doing more indoor stuff lately so using phones I typcally don't use outside. My Ed3's ( original ) never got much use ( came at the same time as my first Ed9's) maybe 8 hours total. Probably should give them to someone on the forum.


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Well the ZS1 can keep up maybe surpass any of Dr. Dre's Beats bass not to mention at 100 times less his prices
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Podster,
 I have the original Ed3 ( sorry non Acme) If you'd like them PM an address and I'll shoot them off.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> The Acme is actually the ED3 "youth edition" it seems. Not bad for something almost half the price. lol. (From KZ's pricing)




I would have called them the "Youth Edition" but that seems to be applied to a bunch of different iems from numerous manufacturers. Makes more sense to me to go by ED3 "Perfection" and ED3 "The Acme" since that's what printed on them


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Well the ZS1 can keep up maybe surpass any of Dr. Dre's Beats bass not to mention at 100 times less his prices
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Go for it man! The original ED3s are pretty nice. Not perfect, but hey, they don't cost much, look great in person, and feel more premium than other KZs in-hand. I really want to know what prompted KZ to print The Acme on the revision, and what it's supposed to mean. Seems like a bizarre choice, haha.
  


sgl54 said:


> Nice review and feedback thanks. I'm glad your still liking your Zs1's. I'm still mixed on them. Probably because they dropped out of the rotation and I'm doing more indoor stuff lately so using phones I typcally don't use outside. My Ed3's ( original ) never got much use ( came at the same time as my first Ed9's) maybe 8 hours total. Probably should give them to someone on the forum.


 
  
 Not a review yet! Just some early impressions. Definitely give the ED3 a second go. They just need the right tip and a good seal to shine. Lengthening the nozzle on The Acme was a great idea as it's much easier to get a good seal. I'm probably one of the only people here that prefer the ED3 over the ED9 (with either nozzle), so keep that in mind. Also, somehow the paint on The Acme is already chipping....they've only been in my ears and sitting on a table. How the heck are they chipped!? haha.
  
 Here is a fun EDM/Rap mix that sounds pretty good on both The Acme and ZS1. Comparing the two on this mix, the ZS1's vocals are warmer but pulled back quite a bit...treble too. 
  
​


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> I would have called them the "Youth Edition" but that seems to be applied to a bunch of different iems from numerous manufacturers. Makes more sense to me to go by ED3 "Perfection" and ED3 "The Acme" since that's what printed on them


 
 Good point!


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Go for it man! The original ED3s are pretty nice. Not perfect, but hey, they don't cost much, look great in person, and feel more premium than other KZs in-hand. I really want to know what prompted KZ to print The Acme on the revision, and what it's supposed to mean. Seems like a bizarre choice, haha.
> 
> 
> Not a review yet! Just some early impressions. Definitely give the ED3 a second go. They just need the right tip and a good seal to shine. Lengthening the nozzle on The Acme was a great idea as it's much easier to get a good seal. I'm probably one of the only people here that prefer the ED3 over the ED9 (with either nozzle), so keep that in mind. Also, somehow the paint on The Acme is already chipping....they've only been in my ears and sitting on a table. How the heck are they chipped!? haha.
> ...





 I had always thought they (the ED3) had a more premium feel to them. They have that nice solid weight and crisp lines. Ah, now  I don't listen to much edm or rap. I guess it's once again  that old folks ageist thing going on. I guess I'm not getting any younger.  "You know how it is " you kids play to darn loud" (Huey Lewis). But I'm surprised you like the Ed3's better than the Ed9's I've never heard that before. But thanks for the suggestions


----------



## JonnyM

Damn these ed3's look good!

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32306483490.html


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Podster,
> I have the original Ed3 ( sorry non Acme) If you'd like them PM an address and I'll shoot them off.




Sweet offer sgl, I'll pm you and maybe we can do a little trade action if you might want a pair of ED9-10 or 11's. I generally order two pair on sub $12 iem's


----------



## joemama

"The Acme" was originally applied to the KZ ES.


----------



## B9Scrambler

joemama said:


> "The Acme" was originally applied to the KZ ES.




Another KZ fun fact, brought to you by the all new HDS1!!

Tis gonna be a good weekend.

* Immediately swapped to Huast H10 tips. Another awesome little micro driver iem.*



*EDIT: HSD1 first impressions are fantastic with the Huast tips. Clean, crisp sound with slightly elevated bass.*


----------



## Hisoundfi

I'm gna sound cheesy, but seriously guys, kudos to all of you for sharing your impressions and honest opinions on this thread. It's really come a long way from even a month ago. It's awesome to come on here and read impressions and opinions and all without any ridicule or argument. 

Cheers guys, seriously, keep up the awesome work and posting your experiences with KZ products


----------



## sgl54

hisoundfi said:


> I'm gna sound cheesy, but seriously guys, kudos to all of you for sharing your impressions and honest opinions on this thread. It's really come a long way from even a month ago. It's awesome to come on here and read impressions and opinions and all without any ridicule or argument.
> 
> Cheers guys, seriously, keep up the awesome work and posting your experiences with KZ products




Cheesy or not, I second that opinion. Differences of opinion are recieved in a positive if not helpful manner. Initially I was hesitant to post my opinion, mostly " being new" I have difficulty describing or expressing what I hear. But it's accepted and the feedback is honest and helpful. Make for a comfortable experiance.


----------



## fallrsk

hisoundfi said:


> I'm gna sound cheesy, but seriously guys, kudos to all of you for sharing your impressions and honest opinions on this thread. It's really come a long way from even a month ago. It's awesome to come on here and read impressions and opinions and all without any ridicule or argument.
> 
> Cheers guys, seriously, keep up the awesome work and posting your experiences with KZ products




If it wasn't for all these opinions, I probably wouldn't have made a head-fi account just yet! You guys got me addicted to these bang for the buck iem's. Can't wait to get my zs1's and post my impressions on 'em.


----------



## bhazard

Coming up on two years since the original set was first found. Compared to the beginning, KZ has made massive progress and is only getting better day by day. Hope it keeps up. Cheers to them.

I've given many KZ as gifts to anyone I know that still uses white earpods, and all have had epiphanies.


----------



## rancor1223

After 2 months the KZ ED10's finally arrived. Aaand the seller send wrong model - the KZ RX. Got my money back and got to keep the headphones so I'm not exactly complaining.
  
 I'm no audiophile, but the RX have lot of static noise compared to my old Nokia WH-208. Not when listening to music, or at least I can't there it there, but when listening to audiobooks and asmr which tend to have lot of silent pauses and are overall quite. The noise is so bad it's distracting.
  
 I'm considering ATE or ED10 (I will be using them for music as well though), but it would be very helpful if someone could tell me if they will have noise like the RX.
  
 EDIT: Better wording.


----------



## aaDee

Was just thinking of taking sabbatical form Head-fi and this shows up.
 Head-fi is damn addictive. God..save my wallet.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Newest-KZ-ATES-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Sport-Headphones-Super-Bass/1825606_32543395782.html


----------



## sgl54

rancor1223 said:


> After 2 months the KZ ED10's finally arrived. Aaand the seller send wrong model - the KZ RX. Got my money back and got to keep the headphones so I'm not exactly complaining.
> 
> I'm no audiophile, but the RX have lot of static noise compared to my old Nokia WH-208. Not when listening to music, or at least I can't there it there, but when listening to audiobooks and asmr which tend to have lot of silent pauses and are overall quite. The noise is so bad it's distracting.
> 
> ...



Hi, I listen to audio books as well. I find that the ATE to be the best amoung the ATE, Ed9, Ed10. For some reason audio books seem to be optimized diffrently but the ATE tends to be better on the silences and more forgiving on some of the more marginal books you sometimes get at Libravox.org. My mainstream ( read commercial) I convert to a decent bit rate and they work well on the ATE as well.


----------



## sgl54

aadee said:


> Was just thinking of taking sabbatical form Head-fi and this shows up.
> 
> 
> Head-fi is damn addictive. God..save my wallet.
> ...



 


If it's not one thing it's another with Kz it seem another and another and… I love how the ATE fits and if they lift the veil extend the lows they'd be perfect those do look good.


----------



## joemama

aadee said:


> Was just thinking of taking sabbatical form Head-fi and this shows up.
> Head-fi is damn addictive. God..save my wallet.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Newest-KZ-ATES-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Sport-Headphones-Super-Bass/1825606_32543395782.html


 

 Gonna pass on this for now. Got the ED3 Youth Edition and HDS2 coming in and looking to buy a couple of Fiio M3s and more spinfits. I wonder how this compares to the original.


----------



## rancor1223

sgl54 said:


> Hi, I listen to audio books as well. I find that the ATE to be the best amoung the ATE, Ed9, Ed10. For some reason audio books seem to be optimized diffrently but the ATE tends to be better on the silences and more forgiving on some of the more marginal books you sometimes get at Libravox.org. My mainstream ( read commercial) I convert to a decent bit rate and they work well on the ATE as well.


 
 Thanks! Guess I will order those then. I really like the transparent black design, but I was kinda sceptical due to the behind-ear design which I have never used before.


----------



## Squalo

ajaxender said:


> KZ must have heard we like boxes, so these each came stored in a box within a box, so you can box while you... sorry. Still, its a little odd; the outer box is the same as what my ZS1 came in except uncoloured (the ZS1 box is dark grey), with extended sides and rounded corners, and then theres a normal box that fits snugly inside. More protection? Who knows.


 
  
 I do appreciate that they put a box in a box so I can unbox while I unbox... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But... this packaging we got the HDS1 in just doesn't cut the mustard. It's 0 protection as the IEM just gets nocked about inside a large box. The plastic boxes for the ED9 and ATE were OK and the old cardboard box with the EVA foam for the ES and EDSE offered more protection than this. This two box thing is just plain dumb. It's a step forward with the plastic box and then two steps backwards. At least they should wrap the IEM up in bubble wrap or something before it goes inside the box...


aadee said:


> Was just thinking of taking sabbatical form Head-fi and this shows up.
> Head-fi is damn addictive. God..save my wallet.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2015-Newest-KZ-ATES-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Sport-Headphones-Super-Bass/1825606_32543395782.html


 
 That's how they work!!!
  

  
 It does look good... but I'm not jumping on it as I haven't achieved a fit on the ATE so... easy decision.
  
 And also.. BLUE and RED plastic bits on it, not RED and RED!


----------



## fallrsk

That ATES mic looks leaps and bounds above the standard KZ mic.. Me likey. (Funny what a simple color change and smooth lines can do, lol!)


----------



## sgl54

rancor1223 said:


> Thanks! Guess I will order those then. I really like the transparent black design, but I was kinda sceptical due to the behind-ear design which I have never used before.


 

 Surprisingly the ATE behind the ear, are very comfortable especially as I tend to listen  books for longer uninterrupted periods. The little dangles on the wire keeps them in place very well. I have 2 pair the silver and the transparent black. The black do look much nicer imo.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Man...these ZS1s are probably the most entertaining headphone/earphone I've ever owned. I can't get over the bass they output. Like a friggin subwoofer attached to your skull 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Screw my JVC XXs, Sony XB50, UE6000, SUR s808, etc.....Dudes over in the basshead thread need to get their hands on these....geezuz. 
  
 "The Acme"... I believe in burn in, both brain and physical, but rarely have I noticed it actually does anything. These ED3s on the other hand, holy crap. Go back to my original impressions and you will see I was really underwhelmed. I've let them sit playing DnB all day, popped them in just a moment a go, and WOW!!
  
 I'll obviously have to spend some more time with them, but I think these may be the best KZ yet. Not as fun as the ZS1, but more technically adept than most KZs without really sacrificing anything. Good soundstage, great bass (deep subbass without any midbass bloat, reasonably quick), lots of detail and good separation, natural mids, clean stereo transitions. They're even surprisingly forgiving with poor sources, although they require a bit of extra juice to drive properly. ED10 doesn't stand a chance, and I've been a staunch supporter of those since my first listen. "The Acme" seem to offer up that extra little bit of refinement that has been lacking from KZ. Very, very impressive.
  
 Now, the HDS1. All I can say about those is; if you were interested in the RHA S500 but not the price, build quality or accessories, the HDS1 is what you need. Very similar in signature and competency. The RHAs are a slightly more airy sounding and the KZs more focused and intimate, but they overall are pretty much on par when it comes to sound quality. If these HDS1s improve with some burn in like the ED3s, omg....I just need to find the right tips now since the Huast ones are proving to be a little finicky.
  
 This newest crop of earphones has shown KZ stepping up their game yet again while somehow maintaining stupidly low prices. I really hope this continues, but I just don't see how it can...


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Man...these ZS1s are probably the most entertaining headphone/earphone I've ever owned. I can't get over the bass they output. Like a friggin subwoofer attached to your skull  . Screw my JVC XXs, Sony XB50, UE6000, SUR s808, etc.....Dudes over in the basshead thread need to get their hands on these....geezuz.



They definately are weighted on the bass end, a little lighter on top although somehow the bass seems fuller on the Zn1's. The trouble I have in describing the Zn1's is that I'm always playing with the buttons and wonder how much of what I'm hearing is amp/eq and what's inherant in the phones themselves. But the Zs1's for the price are, well at anything under $20 is phenominal. The Zs1's sound great with the spin fits but have more bass with Comply tips ( complys arrived today) but for my prefered sound signature I like the spinfits better. So if you have tip of fit issues both the spinfits and Comply's work with the Z'series. B9' your runnjmg the Comply's right?


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> They definately are weighted on the bass end, a little lighter on top although somehow the bass seems fuller on the Zn1's. The trouble I have in describing the Zn1's is that I'm always playing with the buttons and wonder how much of what I'm hearing is amp/eq and what's inherant in the phones themselves. But the Zs1's for the price are, well at anything under $20 is phenominal. The Zs1's sound great with the spin fits but have more bass with Comply tips ( complys arrived today) but for my prefered sound signature I like the spinfits better. So if you have tip of fit issues both the spinfits and Comply's work with the Z'series. *B9' your runnjmg the Comply's right?*


 
  
 I do not run them with Complys. Didn't even think to try it tbh. I suspect that would make the bass too boomy and treble too muffled. Right now they're just comfortably edging all the extremes. I'm currently using one of my fav random wide bore silicones. Not sure what they were originally from, but I have two pairs of mediums and they are absolutely perfect with the ZS1 and "The Acme".
  
Listening to one of Lifted Andreas' mixes (Wain Johnstone b2b Caz Wood @ Frantic, Timeless 14/2/15) with the HDS1 as I write this. Sounds awesome! Just the right amount of bass and treble energy (less bright than the RHA S500 with the same tips, but not by much). These would probably a little bright for our resident Trance DJ, but for me they are just right. Auditory bliss...I love me some good KZs.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> I do not run them with Complys. Didn't even think to try it tbh. I suspect that would make the bass too boomy and [COLOR=000000]treble too muffled. Right now they're just comfortably edging all the extremes. I'm currently using one of my fav random wide bore silicones. Not sure what they were originally from, but I have two pairs of mediums and they are absolutely perfect with the ZS1 and "The Acme".[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=000000]Listening to one of Lifted Andreas' mixes ([/COLOR][COLOR=333333][COLOR=0000FF]Wain Johnstone b2b Caz Wood @ Frantic, Timeless 14/2/15[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=000000]) with the HDS1 as I write this. Sounds awesome! Just the right amount of bass and treble energy (less bright than the RHA S500 with the same tips, but not by much). These would probably a little bright for our resident Trance DJ, but for me they are just right. Auditory bliss...I love me some good KZs.[/COLOR]



Ah "random tips" I have a bunch of those. I tried to pay attention to where they came from but hated the little ziplock bags so except for the Kz, whirlwinds, Spinfits and Comply's I'm clueless. Fortunatly for most the Kz's whirlwinds work great and they are pretty cheap. I'm not sure what happens but the foamies dampen the highs quite a bit. I had heard good things about the Comply's, I'm sure they'll be perfect for something. Today has been pretty much a puro IE500 day, installing a head unit in my new car. Pain in the neck but had to have blue tooth.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> Ah "random tips" I have a bunch of those. I tried to pay attention to where they came from but hated the little ziplock bags so except for the Kz, whirlwinds, Spinfits and Comply's I'm clueless. Fortunatly for most the Kz's whirlwinds work great and they are pretty cheap. I'm not sure what happens but the foamies dampen the highs quite a bit. I had heard good things about the Comply's, I'm sure they'll be perfect for something. Today has been pretty much a puro IE500 day, installing a head unit in my new car. Pain in the neck but had to have blue tooth.




I'll have to post pics of these tips at some point. Surely someone here will be able to identify them.

Those Puros sound like a pretty slick earphone. On the fence about picking up more budget stuff though (besides KZs of course ). They'll have to be darn good to beat the JVC FXH30. 

Hope the install went well! I was stuck at work, but at least that meant listening to the ZS1 for the better part of 8 hours...at a very, very low volume. Even then the bass is still quite prominent.


----------



## chavez

B9 stop praising them . If I give my money for clothes on them, mom is gonna murder me XD. I know im 22 but I'm studying in my hometown and still dont have personal income/job.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> I'll have to post pics of these tips at some point. Surely someone here will be able to identify them.
> 
> Those Puros sound like a pretty slick earphone. On the fence about picking up more budget stuff though (besides KZs of course ). They'll have to be darn good to beat the JVC FXH30.
> 
> Hope the install went well! I was stuck at work, but at least that meant listening to the ZS1 for the better part of 8 hours...at a very, very low volume. Even then the bass is still quite prominent.



The install went fine, I was more worried about scratching things or not getting the alarm part right than anything else. The Puro's are exactly as described they soumd great and they, well I think they look outstanding , shouldn't make a difference but it does. If you can comfortable wear the Zs1's for 8 hours that say a lkt about the sound and fit. I still am drawn to the budget IEM's, yes the next level stuff is better but there are lots of thing I do that I'd rather wear an affordable phone. Working on cars is one of them, today it was just a head unit intall so pretty safe and the puro's came this morning to. Plus with the Kz's I always find something surprising about them. I'm thinking I may need the new ATE's. Somehow it just doesn't end


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> B9 stop praising them . If I give my money for clothes on them, mom is gonna murder me XD. I know im 22 but I'm studying in my hometown and still dont have personal income/job.




Don't worry. You don't need them. I'll probably be the only person on Headfi thats so enamored with them, haha.



sgl54 said:


> The install went fine, I was more worried about scratching things or not getting the alarm part right than anything else. The Puro's are exactly as described they soumd great and they, well I think they look outstanding , shouldn't make a difference but it does. If you can comfortable wear the Zs1's for 8 hours that say a lkt about the sound and fit. I still am drawn to the budget IEM's, yes the next level stuff is better but there are lots of thing I do that I'd rather wear an affordable phone. Working on cars is one of them, today it was just a head unit intall so pretty safe and the puro's came this morning to. Plus with the Kz's I always find something surprising about them. I'm thinking I may need the new ATE's. Somehow it just doesn't end




Glad it went well. I have to replace my inner fender at some point. Traffic pylon fell off a truck and I didn't dodge in time....shattered the cheap plastic Ford uses. Bumper took it like a champ though.

I find the ZS1 very comfortable, but I'm thinking I'll be in the minority here. Took a lot of time to set the memory wire (why is it so long!!!???) and get that tip selection down. 

They will probably be a polarizing earphone in the long run, with some die hard fans (me) and others they just don't click with. "The Acme" on the other hand are flat out awesome and should be in every KZ fan's collection.


----------



## ajaxender

b9scrambler said:


> Don't worry. You don't need them. I'll probably be the only person on Headfi thats so enamored with them, haha.
> Glad it went well. I have to replace my inner fender at some point. Traffic pylon fell off a truck and I didn't dodge in time....shattered the cheap plastic Ford uses. Bumper took it like a champ though.
> 
> I find the ZS1 very comfortable, but I'm thinking I'll be in the minority here. Took a lot of time to set the memory wire (why is it so long!!!???) and get that tip selection down.
> ...


 
  
 I may not be as enamored but I agree with everything you say about them, they're a heck of a lot of fun.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Don't worry. You don't need them. I'll probably be the only person on Headfi thats so enamored with them, haha.
> Glad it went well. I have to replace my inner fender at some point. Traffic pylon fell off a truck and I didn't dodge in time....shattered the cheap plastic Ford uses. Bumper took it like a champ though.
> 
> I find the ZS1 very comfortable, but I'm thinking I'll be in the minority here. Took a lot of time to set the memory wire (why is it so long!!!???) and get that tip selection down.
> ...



Aren't those Ford inner fender well wonderfull! Although I must say my wife drives a Ford escape half the time ( can't break ner of the mini van habit) I replaced the serpintine belt this summer. You have to pull the left wheel and inner wheel well off to do it. It comes off real slick because it feels like a piece of tupperware. It sure made it easy though!
I can't hnderstand the length of the memory wire either it really reminds me of the placement of the Dongles on the ATE's. Maybe that's why. For me the polarizing Kz is the Zn1, they're equally as comfortable ( same shaped ear pieces) but just as the Zs1's match your prefered sound signatures the Zn1's fit mine. I can't understand how or why the Zs1's can be gotten for $12! Makes no sense. I think every wone should have the Edse, ATE, Ed9, Zs1 and hinestly the Zn1's, then of course all the back fills


----------



## joemama

b9scrambler said:


> Man...these ZS1s are probably the most entertaining headphone/earphone I've ever owned. I can't get over the bass they output. Like a friggin subwoofer attached to your skull
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to hear about the "Acme". Mine should arrive Monday. How long did you burn these in?
  
 I'm currently using Sony isolation tips on my HDS1. I've used Spinfits as well. Both work fine for me.


----------



## fallrsk

b9scrambler said:


> Go for it man! The original ED3s are pretty nice. Not perfect, but hey, they don't cost much, look great in person, and feel more premium than other KZs in-hand. I really want to know what prompted KZ to print The Acme on the revision, and what it's supposed to mean. Seems like a bizarre choice, haha.




Did a quick search..
Ac⋅me (noun) - the point at which someone or something is best, perfect, or most successful.
Th-th-that's all, folks!

Anywho, you're too close to convincing me to buy a pair of acme's.


----------



## EISENbricher

From my experience ZS1 need treble boost. They have very good sub and mid bass. They punch hard in that department. Soundstage is good, mids are okay as well. Highs are a bit on the down side and the ZS1's sound is not 'fun' sound imo. If you prefer mellow sound or are too sensitive to highs then ZS1 makes a nice choice.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> Aren't those Ford inner fender well wonderfull!





> I can't hnderstand the length of the memory wire either it really reminds me of the placement of the Dongles on the ATE's. Maybe that's why. For me the polarizing Kz is the Zn1, they're equally as comfortable ( same shaped ear pieces) but just as the* Zs1's match your prefered sound signatures the Zn1's fit mine*. I can't understand how or why the Zs1's can be gotten for $12! Makes no sense. I think every one should have the Edse, ATE, Ed9, Zs1 and hinestly the Zn1's, then of course all the back fills


 
  
 Those inner fenders are cheap as heck, haha.
  
 That's the thing, the ZS1 is nowhere near my preferred signature. That goes to the FXH30 with its hyper quick, punchy bass and bright signature. The ZS1 is pretty much the opposite.
  


joemama said:


> Glad to hear about the "Acme". Mine should arrive Monday. How long did you burn these in?
> 
> I'm currently using Sony isolation tips on my HDS1. I've used Spinfits as well. Both work fine for me.


 
  
 I've put probably about 20+ hours into them. Only spent maybe 45 to an hour listening to them. I tried both normal and isolation hybrids, but I like wider bore tips on them. Changed out the Huast tips for RHA ones and they seem to work well.
  


fallrsk said:


> Did a quick search..
> Ac⋅me (noun) - the point at which someone or something is best, perfect, or most successful.
> Th-th-that's all, folks!
> 
> Anywho, you're too close to convincing me to buy a pair of acme's.


 
  
 Thanks for pointing that out. I honestly thought it was a fake word created for the Roadrunner cartoons so I didn't bother, haha. Sloppy....tsk tsk tsk. 
  
 But yeah, you should get the new ED3. It's pretty great. It might be a little bassy for some, since the bass is greatly boosted over the original, but it's well done bass so there's that.
  


eisenbricher said:


> From my experience ZS1 need treble boost. They have very good sub and mid bass. They punch hard in that department. Soundstage is good, mids are okay as well. Highs are a bit on the down side and the ZS1's sound is not 'fun' sound imo. If you prefer mellow sound or are too sensitive to highs then ZS1 makes a nice choice.


 
  
 They certainly could benefit from a treble boost, and more forward mids, or just tone down the bass 10+ notches and everything will balance out, lol. What makes them so much fun, for me, is that absurd bass. They remind me of the old hi-fi full-sized custom 5.1 stereo with that my cousin used in his entertainment centre. It was pressed up against the main support wall and when he let it loose you could feel the house shake from the third floor (it was in the basement). Insane. You can EQ the treble in and bass down, but that takes the life out of what makes the ZS1 so entertaining. I'm currently enjoying them as-is.
  
 The opposite of "ZS1 fun" is "FXH30 fun", which might line up better with what you are looking for in a fun earphone


----------



## dwayniac

I received the ZS1 a couple days ago and I am not impressed at all. I thought it would be a good basshead iem but is closer to an okay all-rounder,to my ears. Basshead iem's is all I look for in the KZ brand and for now the DT5 is only model to fit that want.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@dwayniac That is shocking. The ZS1 is all bass all the time, lol. You play around with various tips yet?


----------



## Turkleton

b9scrambler said:


> Man...these ZS1s are probably the most entertaining headphone/earphone I've ever owned. I can't get over the bass they output. Like a friggin subwoofer attached to your skull  . Screw my JVC XXs, Sony XB50, UE6000, SUR s808, etc.....Dudes over in the basshead thread need to get their hands on these....geezuz.
> 
> "The Acme"... I believe in burn in, both brain and physical, but rarely have I noticed it actually does anything. These ED3s on the other hand, holy crap. Go back to my original impressions and you will see I was really underwhelmed. I've let them sit playing DnB all day, popped them in just a moment a go, and WOW!!
> 
> ...




Awwww yissssss!!! Your earlier review of the ED3 youth had me worried... I got the ZS1s cos it seemed a good deal for 10 bucks. Ditto the HDS1s and the rave reviews it's gotten.

Now I can't wait for my own crop of the same phones to arrive huhuuu

I think my ED9s just arrived too.. Earphone-vana!!!


----------



## kaiteck

Whats acme Oo

Hi guys anyone knows what the soung signature of zs1 is like? Not sure if i shld get ate s or zs1


----------



## dwayniac

b9scrambler said:


> @dwayniac
> That is shocking. The ZS1 is all bass all the time, lol. You play around with various tips yet?




My ZS1 did not come with wide bore tips so I used some I already had and I still thought the same about it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dwayniac said:


> My ZS1 did not come with wide bore tips so I used some I already had and I still thought the same about it.






I use these with the ED3 and ZS1. Maybe someone here can identify what they originally came with? They bring out the treble a bit on the ZS1, but it's still quite "relaxed" in that regard.


----------



## sgl54

dwayniac said:


> My ZS1 did not come with wide bore tips so I used some I already had and I still thought the same about it.[/quote
> I had a lot of trouble getting tips that would work for me on the Zs1'1 they weee either base light or veiled in the upper range. The wind bore (blue) Kz whirlwinds were close but not quite it for me ( Zs1 needs wide bores) it seemed the angle of the nozzles to me so ordered up the spinfits which made a world of diference not just in sound but fit due to the memory wire. I also ordered some complies ( someone had good luck with these sorry don't remember who) these provised excelent seal and really brought out the bass, but deminished the highs for me.
> Something to note in all my comments about sound with the exception of the Zn1's ( I play with the eq buttons a lot) I evauluate and almost always listen to everything flat across the board using an Xduoo x2 and a Fiio X3ii. So there is alway room for improvememt.


----------



## sgl54

kaiteck said:


> Whats acme Oo
> 
> Hi guys anyone knows what the soung signature of zs1 is like? Not sure if i shld get ate s or zs1



The ATE are a good all arounder and fit well, I find the highs a little veiled. The Zs1 with the right tips are much more musical with greater range. I have described the highs as thinner than the Zn1's. Someone described that as sohnd stage height. Sound stage is actually fairly large with good placement. I find I describe the Zs1's in relation to the Zn1's ( which are very good about 90% of Havi B3p1) instead of comparing them to say the Ed9. Which means I'm always saying not quite or not as good, while they are ( once fitted and burned in) a pretty fun phone, a little bassy but that's great for 80's rock signature. Probably why I keep buying all these different Kz's, there's always something there perfect for.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> Probably why I keep buying all these different Kz's, there's always something there perfect for.


 
  
 Can't deny this statement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, for those that liked the Micro Ring, "The Acme" (ED3) will be a good phone to move onto if you want to stay in the KZ family. Similar signature but refined: tighter, deeper bass, more treble energy with better detail and clarity, veil in the mids has been lifted.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Can't deny this statement.   Also, for those that liked the Micro Ring, "The Acme" (ED3) will be a good phone to move onto if you want to stay in the KZ family. Similar signature but refined: tighter, deeper bass, more treble energy with better detail and clarity, veil in the mids has been lifted.



Well that did it. I wasn't a big fan of the original "perfection" ? Ed3. Now not only is the name perfect " Acme ", clarity and lifted mids sounds good to me. And energy who dosen't need more energy?


----------



## Chief Stringer

b9scrambler said:


> Man...these ZS1s are probably the most entertaining headphone/earphone I've ever owned. I can't get over the bass they output. Like a friggin subwoofer attached to your skull  . Screw my JVC XXs, Sony XB50, UE6000, SUR s808, etc.....Dudes over in the basshead thread need to get their hands on these....geezuz.
> 
> "The Acme"... I believe in burn in, both brain and physical, but rarely have I noticed it actually does anything. These ED3s on the other hand, holy crap. Go back to my original impressions and you will see I was really underwhelmed. I've let them sit playing DnB all day, popped them in just a moment a go, and WOW!!
> 
> ...




Oh man youve got me excited about my zs1s that are on the way , since you like dnb how does 'Omni Trio - First Contact' sound on them? Just hoping i can get a good seal with them


----------



## peter123

I got my HDS1 today and I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with people finding them similar to the RHA S500's. 

I find the HDS1 significantly darker and less aiury sounding. To my ears the HDS1 has a lift in the lower midrange making them more intimate sounding while the S500's has a lift in the higher mids making thwm more airy and also giving a perception of better clarity and details.

The HDS1 also lack the top end sparkle but are smoother in return.

The HDS1 is great on it's own though and will probably compete with them ED9 as my favorite KZ IEM.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chief stringer said:


> Oh man youve got me excited about my zs1s that are on the way , since you like dnb how does 'Omni Trio - First Contact' sound on them? Just hoping i can get a good seal with them




It sounded alright. Not really a song I'm familiar with though. Very mellow....I liked it. Cymbals sounded pretty subtle. Not sure how prominent they are supposed to be.


----------



## CADCAM

Any info on this new ATE S?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-KZ-ATE-S-In-ear-Earphone-Noise-Canceling-Hifi-Headphone-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super/32539938801.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.23.dspMIy&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9


----------



## Chief Stringer

cadcam said:


> Any info on this new ATE S?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-KZ-ATE-S-In-ear-Earphone-Noise-Canceling-Hifi-Headphone-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super/32539938801.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.23.dspMIy&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9




They look nice, wonder if they use the memory wire around the ear


----------



## sgl54

chief stringer said:


> They look nice, wonder if they use the memory wire around the ear


 

 I bet they do. They look he wires on the Zs1's and unlike the brass/bronze dongles of the Traditional ATE's. Bummer I had decided that I need set  of these. I firmly believe a good portion of the fit problems I had with the Zs1's were caused by the memory wire


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> I got my HDS1 today and I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with people finding them similar to the RHA S500's.
> 
> I find the HDS1 significantly darker and less aiury sounding. To my ears the HDS1 has a lift in the lower midrange making them more intimate sounding while the S500's has a lift in the higher mids making thwm more airy and also giving a perception of better clarity and details.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I still find the general signature quite similar, but listening to them back-to-back right now I see what you mean about the HDS1 being the darker of the two (although they're not a dark earphone at all imo). As noted in my earlier comments I felt the same about the HDS1 being more intimate and S500s more airy. Personally I prefer the KZs presentation as I find it less fatiguing.


----------



## Chief Stringer

sgl54 said:


> I bet they do. They look he wires on the Zs1's and unlike the brass/bronze dongles of the Traditional ATE's. Bummer I had decided that I need set  of these. I firmly believe a good portion of the fit problems I had with the Zs1's were caused by the memory wire




Yeah looking at the page properly it clearly states they use it actually :rolleyes:, i havnt heard good things about it we'll see if it works for me when my zs1s arrive


----------



## ezekiel77

About to join the KZ gang soon. Just placed an order for ED9, ED3c and HDS1 through Aliexpress.

 Just wondering how many versions of ED3 are there? I've read good things about the Acme but unsure whether I ordered it right (it showed The Acme in the pic, I said ok).
  
 Also I got them from the KZ Official Flagship Store (has writing in Russian?!) but based on the number of orders they get I feel they're the safest sellers. Has anyone had any bad experiences with this or other sellers?


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> I still find the general signature quite similar, but listening to them back-to-back right now I see what you mean about the HDS1 being the darker of the two* (although they're not a dark earphone at all imo)*. As noted in my earlier comments I felt the same about the HDS1 being more intimate and S500s more airy. Personally I prefer the KZs presentation as I find it less fatiguing.


 
 I agree in the bold, it was in comparison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As for the rest of the sound I don't think they'd been compared to each other if they haven't both been micro drivers but YMMV.
  
 It's way to early for me yet to pass any final judgement on which I prefer over the other.


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> I agree in the bold, it was in comparison
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That was more for those who see the word dark and automatically think the HDS1 is a dark earphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll be updating my microdriver thread soon (hopefully) so the comparison was inevitable. Unlike with the VSD2 vs.S500, the S500 didn't come to mind when I first heard the HDS1. Had there not been the need to a/b the two, you're right, I probably wouldn't have compared them (at least not so soon).
  
 Are you planning to review the HDS1 at some point, or just drop your impressions in the thread here? Regardless, I'm very interested to see what you think since you've reviewed a lot of neat gear and I'm a blatant KZ fanboy, haha.


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> That was more for those who see the word dark and automatically think the HDS1 is a dark earphone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ha ha, don't get me wrong: I really like what I've heard from the HDS1 so far and I will most likely honor them with a full review when I get the time. 
  
  
 I've seen more people than you compare the S500 and HDS1 so I was kind of expecting them to sound more similar than what they did. To me it's great though because I'd rather have two different sounding great IEM's than two very similar ones


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> Ha ha, don't get me wrong: I really like what I've heard from the HDS1 so far and I will most likely honor them with a full review when I get the time.
> 
> 
> I've seen more people than you compare the S500 and HDS1 so I was kind of expecting them to sound more similar than what they did. To me it's great though because I'd rather have two different sounding great IEM's than two very similar ones


 
  
 Woot! Looking forward to your review. I'm pretty surprised at the complete lack of official reviews of KZ products given their mostly positive reputation. I'm planning to review the HDS1, "The Acme", and potentially the ZS1 at some point in the near future. ZS1 I'm on the fence about. I love them to death, but I feel they're a bit of a one-trick pony.
  
 I'm have to snoop around for those other HDS1/S500 comparos.


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> Woot! Looking forward to your review. I'm pretty surprised at the complete lack of official reviews of KZ products given their mostly positive reputation. I'm planning to review the HDS1, "The Acme", and potentially the ZS1 at some point in the near future. ZS1 I'm on the fence about. I love them to death, but I feel they're a bit of a one-trick pony.
> 
> I'm have to snoop around for those other HDS1/S500 comparos.


 
 Yeah I agree that there should be more reviews of the KZ's given their popularity. Makes me think that I probably should review the ED9 as well since I like them a lot. 
  
 I think it might have been @Hisoundfi that also maetioned the two (HDS1/S500) in the same breath earlier but I had a ruff weekend so might remeber it wrong


----------



## CADCAM

Hey guys wanted to hear the ED3 and ordered these ~ http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html
  
 Are they the "right" ones? I read some positive things on the Acme ones so tried them...


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Hey guys wanted to hear the ED3 and ordered these ~ http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html
> 
> Are they the "right" ones? I read some positive things on the Acme ones so tried them...




Those are the older ones. The revised model says "The Acme" on the back instead of "Perfection" and comes in blue and red (maybe other colors but haven't seen any). The originals are good (imo) but sound significantly different from the new model.


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> Hey guys wanted to hear the ED3 and ordered these ~ http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html
> 
> Are they the "right" ones? I read some positive things on the Acme ones so tried them...



I've been looking for the correct ones as well. It seems a lot of the picture are the first model with perfection on the end plate where I believe the Acme should be, so it's hard to visually distinguish (there seems to be a tendency to use old pictures). Here is the discription associated with the only new stock easily identifiable Acme I found.

 "KZ ED3 KZ-ED3 High-End Acme Silver Grade Noise Cancelling Enthusiasts Bass Music Hifi DJ Monitor Studio Sports Metal 3.5mm Stereo Earphones "

Given it says "Noise Cancelling Enthusiats" I'm absolutly certain it aimed at me. The above quote actually is from a Amazon vendor (( Vendor name KZ). The tend to ask a couple dollars more for there products but thier customer service is penominal and ship time to me in California both times has been 8 days. I order from them when I need it with a consistant ship time. Otherwise I go for the cheapest.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> Those are the older ones. The revised model says "The Acme" on the back instead of "Perfection" and comes in blue and red (maybe other colors but haven't seen any). The originals are good (imo) but sound significantly different from the new model.


 
 Do you have the newer version? If so any links? Also are the housings red & blue??


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Do you have the newer version? If so any links? Also are the housings red & blue??




I have both the New and old versions. You can find my impressions a couple pages back (with low quality pics! Exciting, haha).

I bought mine here (mobile link):

m.aliexpress.com/item/32501220286.html?adminSeq=224701538&productId=32501220286&productId=32501220286&productId=32501220286&shopNumber=1825606&productSubject=2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY&productSubject=2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

If the housing were red and blue that would be awesome, but alas it's just one or the other. Hope this helps


----------



## Squalo

ezekiel77 said:


> Just wondering how many versions of ED3 are there? I've read good things about the Acme but unsure whether I ordered it right (it showed The Acme in the pic, I said ok).


 
 3 different versions of the ED3
  
 1. ED3, the first one, with metal colour housing and grey back plate marked "ED3 perfection". Smoke grey transparent cable.
 2. ED3c / Youth Edition, with either red or blue housing and black back marked "ED3 the acme". Smoke grey transparent cable.
 3. ED3 S3, with either grey or silver housing and black back marked "ED3 the acme". Black or blue cable.
  
 Could be a a white cable version of the first ED3 also.
  
 First ED3 didn't get that much attention when it was new...


----------



## robvagyok

squalo said:


> 3 different versions of the ED3
> 
> 1. ED3, the first one, with metal colour housing and grey back plate marked "ED3 perfection". Smoke grey transparent cable.
> 2. ED3c / Youth Edition, with either red or blue housing and black back marked "ED3 the acme". Smoke grey transparent cable.
> ...


 
 and which of these are supposed to be the best one?
 I do have ED10 and ED SE and an ATE aswell from the KZ selection -> compared to them how is the "great Acme"?


----------



## davi99

what do you recommend me if i say i want same sound with ed9 (gold filters) but a little bit reduced brightness?
 rest were perfect. just a bit bright and makes me irrite


----------



## Podster

davi99 said:


> what do you recommend me if i say i want same sound with ed9 (gold filters) but a little bit reduced brightness?
> rest were perfect. just a bit bright and makes me irrite


 

 For the KZ's I currently I would have to recommend HDS1's Davi as I don't own the ED3's (Have an original pair coming from SGL soon though)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still I'm a BIG fan of the ED9's as I like that in your face top end, for me it's really the best sounding KZ to date for me and I bought two pair right off the bat of the originals and then last month bought the youth version which as far as I can tell has just been re-named. Of course I'm doing all this ED( talk and I've been jamming on the VJJ-B's all afternoon and once again for the asking price these are excellent dual driver iem's, got some Coldplay sounding sweet off the old iPhone 6 right now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just my .02 Davi, can't really go wrong on any of these for the price


----------



## fallrsk

Well, look at what arrived! Not a fan of the box-ception going on but whatever keeps KZ in business!


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> Well, look at what arrived! Not a fan of the box-ception going on but whatever keeps KZ in business!


 
 So are those ZS1's in the KZ box? We'll be calling you Count Bassy by the weekend if so


----------



## Igor Eisberg

podster said:


> So are those ZS1's in the KZ box? We'll be calling you Count Bassy by the weekend if so


 
 Yeah, ZS1 are bassy, not the best bassy earphones though... Not the best in clarity either. The worst is making these weird shaped earphones fit properly, which is like impossible. They always come out, never stay inside.


----------



## fallrsk

podster said:


> So are those ZS1's in the KZ box? We'll be calling you Count Bassy by the weekend if so


 
 Indeed! OOTB impressions: Warm to my ears, probably the least "analytical" sounding phones I own. Lower resolution than the ED10's, somewhere on par with Piston 3's with a little less upper extension? The bass is coherent, but isn't as "tight" as the ED10's.. There's alot yet there's alot missing somewhere? It's a weird sound signature. But my god, the sound stage is awesome, super wide but doesn't seem very tall. The mids and treble seem to be veiled a bit.. I'm still trying to figure this out. Good phones for techno, EDM, etc. but doesn't mate too well with the "rock" I listen to. 


igor eisberg said:


> Yeah, ZS1 are bassy, not the best bassy earphones though... Not the best in clarity either. The worst is making these weird shaped earphones fit properly, which is like impossible. They always come out, never stay inside.


 
 Guess I'm lucky, just popped these in with the stock tips and they won't budge whatsoever!.. I'm a little lost on how to adjust the memory wire but I could wear these without the wire at all lol! Perfect for my ears, just had to rotate them towards the backs of my ears to get the best sound.. I bet spinfits would be spectacular for this pair.
  
  
 Overall, they're a fun pair to listen to EDM with and very comfortable for me.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

fallrsk said:


> Indeed! OOTB impressions: Warm to my ears, probably the least "analytical" sounding phones I own. Lower resolution than the ED10's, somewhere on par with Piston 3's with a little less upper extension? The bass is coherent, but isn't as "tight" as the ED10's.. There's alot yet there's alot missing somewhere? It's a weird sound signature. But my god, the sound stage is awesome, super wide but doesn't seem very tall. The mids and treble seem to be veiled a bit.. I'm still trying to figure this out. Good phones for techno, EDM, etc. but doesn't mate too well with the "rock" I listen to.
> Guess I'm lucky, just popped these in with the stock tips and they won't budge whatsoever!.. I'm a little lost on how to adjust the memory wire but I could wear these without the wire at all lol! Perfect for my ears, just had to rotate them towards the backs of my ears to get the best sound.. I bet spinfits would be spectacular for this pair.
> 
> 
> Overall, they're a fun pair to listen to EDM with and very comfortable for me.


 

 Lucky you. Still, I would take HDS1/ED3 Youth and even ED10 over the ZS1 any day...


----------



## fallrsk

Those are both on my list so I'll just have to live off of people's impressions for the time being.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EDIT: Just remembered I actually had a corrective eq on for my 7506's.. Sounds a little better now with that eq off.


----------



## B9Scrambler

fallrsk said:


> Indeed! OOTB impressions: Warm to my ears, probably the least "analytical" sounding phones I own. Lower resolution than the ED10's, somewhere on par with Piston 3's with a little less upper extension? The bass is coherent, but isn't as "tight" as the ED10's.. There's alot yet there's alot missing somewhere? It's a weird sound signature. But my god, the sound stage is awesome, super wide but doesn't seem very tall. The mids and treble seem to be veiled a bit.. I'm still trying to figure this out. Good phones for techno, EDM, etc. but doesn't mate too well with the "rock" I listen to.
> Guess I'm lucky, just popped these in with the stock tips and they won't budge whatsoever!.. I'm a little lost on how to adjust the memory wire but I could wear these without the wire at all lol! Perfect for my ears, just had to rotate them towards the backs of my ears to get the best sound.. I bet spinfits would be spectacular for this pair.
> 
> 
> Overall, they're a fun pair to listen to EDM with and very comfortable for me.


 
  
 The ZS1 is like that big old clumsy dog your neighbor had as a kid. Stupid, but lovable. Make sure you ditch those stock tips for something wide bore. This really improves the resolution and detail, but it'll still lag well behind the ED3 and HDS1 (unless you eq out the bass, but why would you want to turn off those superwoofers? ). This is how I have my memory wire set up. Maybe it'll help you?


----------



## fallrsk

Thanks B9, i simply just Google's how to set up memory wires. I just held 'em in and pressed them up where my ear joins my head. Also, i swapped out the tips (threw them onto the Zircons) and put on the memory foam ATE tips. (Sadly they're all foam with no plastic inner) but they're comfier and do the trick. I tried the other stock tips but they didn't fit as well as the red core and i couldn't sense any differences with tip rolling.


----------



## mauriciocg

Hi folks!
 I'm following forum had some time, 2 years i guess.
  
 Always good fountain of knowledge.
  
 I'm a Owner of a AT CK32 bought in 2007. Still in a good shape till today, even with hard use!
  
 Love this IEM. But I planning to buy a new cheap one to give some days of rest to my CK32 (and save it for more 7 years, who knows) and one with mic/remote.
  
 I'm think and like the design of KZ ZS1's but heard about the Moxpad X6?
 What you guys have to say about it?
 I listen, basically, EDM/Trance and rock (Metallica, Slipknot, SOAD, Rammstein..)
 I almost buy a SHURE SE215. But want to save some money, as a China buy addicted!
  
 Thanks


----------



## ezekiel77

squalo said:


> 3 different versions of the ED3
> 
> 1. ED3, the first one, with metal colour housing and grey back plate marked "ED3 perfection". Smoke grey transparent cable.
> 2. ED3c / Youth Edition, with either red or blue housing and black back marked "ED3 the acme". Smoke grey transparent cable.
> ...


 
  
 I got lucky! Ordered the red "Acme" bcos I saw the wording (although silver is my preferred colour). Haven't seen the ED3 S3 but if I like the 3C sound will get a spare.
  
 Browsing around Aliexpress I came across a ED3M which just looks like the youth edition.


----------



## B9Scrambler

fallrsk said:


> Thanks B9, i simply just Google's how to set up memory wires. I just held 'em in and pressed them up where my ear joins my head. Also, i swapped out the tips (threw them onto the Zircons) and put on the memory foam ATE tips. (Sadly they're all foam with no plastic inner) but they're comfier and do the trick. I tried the other stock tips but they didn't fit as well as the red core and i couldn't sense any differences with tip rolling.


 
  
 Glad you got the wire figured out. I personally can't stand memory wire, but at least the one used on the ZS1 holds it's shape once it's been molded. Despite the length it's pretty decent. The ATE foams aren't bad, but they would be better with a proper plastic core.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Glad you got the wire figured out. I personally can't stand memory wire, but at least the one used on the ZS1 holds it's shape once it's been molded. Despite the length it's pretty decent. The ATE foams aren't bad, but they would be better with a proper plastic core.




Their memory wire does hold it's shape well, been Jamming some Bjork on the old neighbors lovable dogs tonight via my phone. Had to EQ the bass reducer and now she sounds awesome. For $12 the ZS1 is like a steal in materials alone, keeping the EQ set for reduced bass I now have Depeche Ultra on and with Wide Bores they sound hust right and the audience is roaring


----------



## andione1983

Just got KZ ed11 today..... Blows my mind!!! The sound is amazing 

Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


----------



## xrM

Anyone got hold of the new ATES yet?


----------



## fallrsk

So.. After a bit of listening, the zs1 is as close as I've head to an open back iem. It actually pairs quite well with Fallout 4 if you can get them to fit, but don't expect any noise isolation.. Hopefully they open up a bit with break in?
  
 The Rock Zircons actually sound like they share drivers with the ED10, having the same lovable bass but better tuning above the mid.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

fallrsk said:


> So.. After a bit of listening, the zs1 is as close as I've head to an open back iem. It actually pairs quite well with Fallout 4 if you can get them to fit, but don't expect any noise isolation.. Hopefully they open up a bit with break in?
> 
> The Rock Zircons actually sound like they share drivers with the ED10, having the same lovable bass but better tuning above the mid.


 
 They both may have a great bass, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they share the same drivers.
 ED10 is a much less clear V-shaped sound. The sound signature is very warm yet the highs are piercing.
 Zircon is V-shaped too, but the mids sound very clear compared to other V-shaped earphones.
 I actually moved from ED10 to Zircon as my daily drivers just because of that noticeable difference.


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Their memory wire does hold it's shape well, been Jamming some Bjork on the old neighbors lovable dogs tonight via my phone. Had to EQ the bass reducer and now she sounds awesome. For $12 the ZS1 is like a steal in materials alone, keeping the EQ set for reduced bass I now have Depeche Ultra on and with Wide Bores they sound hust right and the audience is roaring


 
  






 ZS1 for the win. Once you get around that stock tuning (which I love despite it being horribly flawed) they are actually a very capable product. Reminds me of the SUR s808 in that regard. Stock tuning is really mid-bass heavy...blah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. EQ that out and they easily compete with any of the good KZs, imo.


----------



## CADCAM

andione1983 said:


> Just got KZ ed11 today..... Blows my mind!!! The sound is amazing
> 
> Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


 
 What other KZ's do you have?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Swapping from the ZS1 to the HSD1 is a slap in the face. Oh man. 

Been letting the HSD1 burn, and they're shaping up nicely. Bass coming out a bit, treble continues to smooth. They're in a close competition with "The Acme" for ultimate KZ supremacy. 

Back to the ZS1 while the ED3 and HDS1 continue to bake.


----------



## andione1983

cadcam said:


> andione1983 said:
> 
> 
> > Just got KZ ed11 today..... Blows my mind!!! The sound is amazing
> ...


just the ed9s

Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


----------



## davi99

*ATTENTION: These comments are taken from another forum in order to clarify the discussion.*

  


> # I hated ED9. Newbies will love the ED 9s bright forward sound but its not for trained ears. ED series ain't for me.
> 
> # I do vote for Mi Piston 3 over ED9 any damn day. ED9 is plain crap. Uncomfortable to wear,heavy hanging, bright , forward , with that forward midbass seeping in to midrange , destroying the recess or laid back nature you need to make the soundstage a bit more palpable,this where the average differs from the very best in sound signature. Out of the box that forward , bright sound will "wow" newbies but 30 minutes in to it you will know its crap. ATE/ Piston 3 is a much better choice. Far more balanced and REFINED. It's completely my view and that's how I love my sound. REFINED.
> 
> ...


 




*What do you think about this guy?*


----------



## Hisoundfi

davi99 said:


> *[COLOR=FF0000]ATTENTION: These comments are taken from another forum in order to clarify the discussion.[/COLOR]*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds like a very opinionated person with strong convictions. 

I wouldn't regard anything they say though. 

My "trained" ears feel they are fabulous


----------



## EISENbricher

davi99 said:


> *ATTENTION: These comments are taken from another forum in order to clarify the discussion.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ATE/ Piston 3 is a much better choice.* Far more balanced* and REFINED.
  
 This tells the story. He might have got an imbalanced pair. I have 3 pairs of ED9 and 2 pairs of ED10. 1 ED9 and 1 ED10 not ordered from KZ Official store arrived slightly imbalanced. They don't even remotely compare with actual ability of proper pair. 
  
 His opinion can be personal and there is high chance of a faulty pair. Never ever one should post opinion before determining if the pair is in good condition.


----------



## EISENbricher

Rotating between HDS1 and ZS1. What a bass ZS1 has! After some burn in I think the bass has settled and doesn't sound little sloppy as it did before. It's so much more under control now. Still I'd say ZS1 will be most enticing for the bass lovers. On a busy, noisy street ZS1 was absolute pleasure to listen. It did isolate very well as well as kept that bass punching hard.
  
 Btw, HDS1 look so cute! It's my most favorite looking KZ IEM.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> ATE/ Piston 3 is a much better choice.* Far more balanced* and REFINED.
> 
> This tells the story. He might have got an imbalanced pair. I have 3 pairs of ED9 and 2 pairs of ED10. 1 ED9 and 1 ED10 not ordered from KZ Official store arrived slightly imbalanced. They don't even remotely compare with actual ability of proper pair.
> 
> His opinion can be personal and there is high chance of a faulty pair. Never ever one should post opinion before determining if the pair is in good condition.


 

 Maybe if your this volatile you should not post at all
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For sure good to use a disclaimer when re-posting his views!


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Maybe if your this volatile you should not post at all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ? Who was this directed at?
  
 Don't you think there might be good chance of a faulty pair if someone thinks ED9 is 'crappy' and ATE is very good? You'll see this phenomenon a lot on Amazon or Newegg. A product which is essentially good but if there's some manufacturing inconsistency/ faulty batch delivered then you'll see extreme biased opinions. 
  
 From my perspective that might had happened. And I'm not even blaming anyone, chill!
  
 I don't endorse disclaimers too much because then every post here on Head-Fi will have to be started with disclaimer. Most posts are personal opinions minus actual measurements done professionally.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> ? Who was this directed at?
> 
> Don't you think there might be good chance of a faulty pair if someone thinks ED9 is 'crappy' and ATE is very good? You'll see this phenomenon a lot on Amazon or Newegg. A product which is essentially good but if there's some manufacturing inconsistency/ faulty batch delivered then you'll see extreme biased opinions.
> 
> ...


 

 Easy Eisen, that was about the Davi post which Vince commented on and not you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When someone tells me the ED9 is just too bright and not anything like a Audiophile iem he's IMHO and to coin a phrase "Hard of hearing"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sure I think he could have gotten a faulty pair of ED9's but I based my comment on the Piston 3 comment
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all good Eisen
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 By the way from one KZ fan to another I rank mine # 1 and still not dethroned ED9, HDS1's, ED11 edging out ED10, ATE but I've never gotten a fit I can wear them with long
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ZN1's but hate the dangling box, if it was gone they would be # 3! On the KZ heavy bass side ZS1's easily and then RX's (Have a gifted pair of ED3's) on their way to me now. Outside of KZ I too love and I mean love my Havi B3 Pro 1's and listened to my VJJ-B V1's all day yesterday ($7 of amazing) I think we are very close in what we like the sound of


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Easy Eisen, that was about the Davi post which Vince commented on and not you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh alright... ambiguity confuses me a lot esp since English is not my first language.. 
  
 Wow you keep so many earphones in rotation?! I can hardly manage two while my others go on months long hiatus.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Oh alright... ambiguity confuses me a lot esp since English is not my first language..
> 
> Wow you keep so many earphones in rotation?! I can hardly manage two while my others go on months long hiatus.


 

 Yes sir, I was just telling the guys over on the Watch thread that I rarely wear a watch more than a few days at a time and I've been in my current one for two weeks now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I probably get in 2 to 3 hours daily with iem's so I like changing them out often as I really seem to catch changes quicker that way but I don't think I'm the norm by any means. I think your really good reviewers (won't mention any names because we have quite a few in here, cough cough Labsters in particular)LOL Will take anywhere from 4 to 20 hours to dig deep on them and why I do more impressions than critical reviewing however I've recently taken a couple tours and owe these manufacturers something a little ore in depth which I'm currently working on. Cheers


----------



## davi99

I dont understand how you saying '' that may be faulty ed9 '' . I think he is both mentally  and physically healthy to judge if pairs are broken or not


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster We have similar rotation habits it seems. Outside of a few months of constant FXH30 use, I usually bring four different iems with me to work. I like the variety in signatures they offer, ensuring I a) Don't get bored of any of them, and b) I don't get used to any one signature. Keeps the palette fresh, ya know?


----------



## Podster

davi99 said:


> I dont understand how you saying '' that may be faulty ed9 '' . I think he is both mentally  and physically healthy to judge if pairs are broken or not


 

 He who Davi? You know the guy personally that wrote those impressions? Like Vince said it's easy to see the person was very opinionated, I think there are far to many people who find the ED9 a nice inexpensive iem to feel the same as this guy felt/feels. I think the bad channel was brought up due to how most people feel about the ED9 and QC out of China. Nothing personal, seems to be a edgy week around here


----------



## joemama

davi99 said:


> *ATTENTION: These comments are taken from another forum in order to clarify the discussion.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is there any way you can provide links to the comments themselves?


----------



## Podster

joemama said:


> Is there any way you can provide links to the comments themselves?


 

 Indeed, so that we can all have a chance to "Clarify" as you originally stated when you posted this outside Head-Fi comments. Like I said the only thing I was clear about was that persons opinion on what they thought of the ED9 compared to their Piston 3's! He is entitled to that opinion but why even bring it into this thread Davi. This same kind of stuff is happening over in the Chinese thread driven by Igor right now and why after being a member of Head-Fi since 2007 did I only start posting out here a year and a half ago. Having an opinion is fine, having attitude with that opinion helps no one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 KZ may not be everyone's cup of tea but even a casual user can listen to most of them and determine they provide great bang for the buck
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Civility carry's a big stick and makes all places better


----------



## davi99

I am personally just regular ed9 listener, which ''blown away'' with the sound it gives my ears, as he mentioned '' untrained ears will love ed9's bla bla bla''


  My ears are not '' trained ''.  I just wanted you to see there are negative comments about holy moly ed9.


  I hesitate to give link since its stored in another forum.


----------



## Podster

davi99 said:


> I am personally just regular ed9 listener, which ''blown away'' with the sound it gives my ears, as he mentioned '' untrained ears will love ed9's bla bla bla''
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's no biggie Davi, we know the ED9 is not for everyone but for ten bucks I have some $100 iem's that don't hold a candle to them To each his own and we sure don't need any flame wars over $10 Have a good one


----------



## fallrsk

eisenbricher said:


> Rotating between HDS1 and ZS1. What a bass ZS1 has! After some burn in I think the bass has settled and doesn't sound little sloppy as it did before. It's so much more under control now. Still I'd say ZS1 will be most enticing for the bass lovers. On a busy, noisy street ZS1 was absolute pleasure to listen. It did isolate very well as well as kept that bass punching hard.
> 
> Btw, HDS1 look so cute! It's my most favorite looking KZ IEM.


 
 The zs1's isolate sound for you!? I can head my air cleaner running when between songs or on loading screens. (I've never heard it with any other iem's in).. Weird.


----------



## ajaxender

fallrsk said:


> The zs1's isolate sound for you!? I can head my air cleaner running when between songs or on loading screens. (I've never heard it with any other iem's in).. Weird.


 
  
 Yep I'm with you, I found them to get major wind-noise and did not isolate well just with people noise, let alone a street with traffic. No surprise given the vents. Still, if it works for Eisen good for him. Can't argue with the bass.


----------



## ayao

davi99 said:


> *ATTENTION: These comments are taken from another forum in order to clarify the discussion.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What does this guy mean by midbass seeping into the mids, since the ED9 has the least bass of any IEM I've heard (except the Ety MC5) .
 I never really liked the ED9, though it definitely isn't plain crap. I can kinda understand what this guy is trying to convey, but the ATE isn't a "much better choice" but rather a different choice.
 "Bright, forward mid-bass hump"... so basically he's calling people who like a V-shaped signature newbies. I think he's forgetting that there are many genres of music, and some music can be more enjoyable with a V-shaped earphone.
  
 "# KZ are temporary stuffs.." - he's forgetting that many people really can't afford over $10 on a backup/basher earphone, or even a primary earphone. I keep a KZ IEM at the office, and it's not going to be temporary.
 "Audiophiles make it popular as they want something new when they have nothing else to do.." - Audiophiles do want something new, but KZ is popular because people are impressed by their price/performance. When I first heard about KZ, I couldn't even believe you could order an earphone for just $6 including international delivery. 


> Originally Posted by *EISENbricher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> ATE/ Piston 3 is a much better choice. *Far more balanced* and REFINED.
> ...


 
 I'm pretty sure the guy didn't mean channel imbalance, but rather a balanced sound signature.


----------



## sgl54

I've avoided commenting on the other thread opinions. Although there are strong opinions and idea at times here it has always been cordial . That can't be said of other threads. Havi thread in example. All I can say is I like the Kz's and those that didn't match my prefered signature, I just sent on for someone else to enjoy. Seems pretty easy to me.


----------



## CADCAM

Just to chime in here I vertically bi-amp Monitor Audio speakers with McCormack amplifiers using a Placette remote volume control in my main system. My cable connectors solder cost more than the ED9 and I absolutely enjoy the hp...
  
 Anyone can make statements. If you enjoy the sound of a piece of equipment whether it cost ten dollars or thousands enjoy it, let others say what the will. 
  
 Now how about those new ATE S's...


----------



## EISENbricher

fallrsk said:


> The zs1's isolate sound for you!? I can head my air cleaner running when between songs or on loading screens. (I've never heard it with any other iem's in).. Weird.


 
 Yep, compared to the IEMs I was using (ED9, ED10) it's better at isolation. I don't get much wind noise as I live in less Windy place, mostly listen while walking or at home. I just have lot of traffic noise around, which is nicely isolated by ZS1.
  
 I wasn't speaking in absolute terms, but in relative. I don't have any IEM which is widely claimed to isolate very well. So don't have anything very good to compare with..


----------



## robvagyok

cadcam said:


> Now how about those new ATE S's...


 
 I'm intrested in them aswell


----------



## Ahmed 850

can some one recommend me the which is best suited for audiobooks and breathy engaging female vocals like my immortal for example I hope they are not different categories of iems


----------



## ezekiel77

cadcam said:


> Now how about those new ATE S's...


 
  
 Any news on how it's different from the original ATE?


----------



## robvagyok

ezekiel77 said:


> Any news on how it's different from the original ATE?


 
 if you look at the product page it says "beryllium copper unit" while it's only "copper unit" at the ATE page.
 also, the connection of the cable seem to be plastic instead of the brass/copper used on the original ATE


----------



## CoiL

... I might have read something wrong. Nvm. Doesn`t matter anyway.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ahmed 850 said:


> can some one recommend me the which is best suited for audiobooks and breathy engaging female vocals like my immortal for example I hope they are not different categories of iems


 
  
 ATE is quite nice for vocals, but maybe you'll want to wait for impressions of the new ATES to see how they fair.


----------



## Ahmed 850

thanks for your reply is there is any legit amazon link for them


----------



## HiFiChris

fallrsk said:


> The zs1's isolate sound for you!?


 

 In my case, the ZN1 and ZS1 also isolate quite nicely - better than just average.

 Stock black silicone tips, nice and deep fit.


----------



## joemama

Sorry for being off-topic, but does anyone know what happened to the Chinese/Asian thread (currently locked)? Just curious (and bummed out
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## fallrsk

@HiFiChris @EISENbricher that's so odd! I thought they were really open in comparison to any iem's I have. I can wear the ed10 and vacuum a whole house without hearing the vacuum once... Goes to show how much everyone's ears can differ i suppose


----------



## vad0s

eisenbricher said:


> ATE/ Piston 3 is a much better choice.* Far more balanced* and REFINED.
> 
> This tells the story. He might have got an imbalanced pair. I have 3 pairs of ED9 and 2 pairs of ED10. 1 ED9 and 1 ED10 not ordered from KZ Official store arrived slightly imbalanced. They don't even remotely compare with actual ability of proper pair.
> 
> His opinion can be personal and there is high chance of a faulty pair. Never ever one should post opinion before determining if the pair is in good condition.


 
  
 This could be my case. I have got ED10, thought they're pretty good headphones, but didn't impress me that much as for example MH1C (or maybe Piston 2) did. I thought they are just how they are... not bad but also not great.
  
 Today, I received ED9. I tried them with the "more bassier" nozzles and damn, they are another league compared to my ED10 even they aren't burned yet and I used the straight out the box. I mean better everything, even the bass is better on them for me. The ED10 sounds so boring to me now. If it's true, that there could be worse pairs of ED10.. it would explain pretty bad build quality on the ED10s. As I already posted here few pages before, the metal backplate accidentally dropped out and now the cable is "gapping away" from one earphone, I'll have to fix it with some glue.
  
 I got my ED10 from here: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606 . I also wrote them after the backplate dropped out and they gave me full refund, so I cant complain about them. They were comunicating with me really fast and well, also the delivery was pretty fast. 
  
 The best solution would be compare my ED10 with another pair of them, but I won't buy another pair just for comparsion and risk "bad pair". I have also ordered Rock Zircons from the same shop as the ED10s. I hope Zircons will be OK.
  
  
 - Also, this could be happening to me just because of the fit ED10 or whatever.. Don't take my words as 100% true. These are just my impressions so far. 
  
 After I have received ED9, I finally understand the KZ HYPE on Head-Fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I wish I understood it before the 11/11 sale, I definitely wouldn't order only ED9. In fact, I had ordered KZ ZS1 for 10 dollars and cancelled the orded at the last moment
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Sorry for my poor english.


----------



## sgl54

ahmed 850 said:


> can some one recommend me the which is best suited for audiobooks and breathy engaging female vocals like my immortal for example I hope they are not different categories of iems



My Kz preference for audio books are the ATE and Zs1 although the Ed9 works very well as well . The ATE is very comfortable the Zs1's don't have quite the sound isolation so I don't find I get in as much trouble from my wife by ignoring her periodic questions! For female voacals ( which is a preference of mine) I still hands down prefer the Zn1's. Easy to tune no memory wire but initially the amp/eq is hard to adjust to. Next would still be the all purpose Ed9's. Lately I've been rotating between Puro iem500, NHT superbuds and Havi N3pro1 but there isn't a day that I don't use the Zn1's. Prior to these last couple of weeks ( cold and a little wet) it been the Zn1's, Ed9's and Edrse or ate.


----------



## ezekiel77

ahmed 850 said:


> can some one recommend me the which is best suited for audiobooks and breathy engaging female vocals like my immortal for example I hope they are not different categories of iems




One of their ads recommend the ED3 for vocals. I have them on order, will let you know if it works out.


----------



## EISENbricher

fallrsk said:


> @HiFiChris @EISENbricher that's so odd! I thought they were really open in comparison to any iem's I have. I can wear the ed10 and vacuum a whole house without hearing the vacuum once... Goes to show how much everyone's ears can differ i suppose


 
 That may be it... I also have an ED10 and ZS1 are slightly better at isolation but ED10 aren't bad either. 
 It also depends on which tips you are using as well. 
  


vad0s said:


> This could be my case. I have got ED10, thought they're pretty good headphones, but didn't impress me that much as for example MH1C (or maybe Piston 2) did. I thought they are just how they are... not bad but also not great.
> 
> Today, I received ED9. I tried them with the "more bassier" nozzles and damn, they are another league compared to my ED10 even they aren't burned yet and I used the straight out the box. I mean better everything, even the bass is better on them for me. The ED10 sounds so boring to me now. If it's true, that there could be worse pairs of ED10.. it would explain pretty bad build quality on the ED10s. As I already posted here few pages before, the metal backplate accidentally dropped out and now the cable is "gapping away" from one earphone, I'll have to fix it with some glue.
> 
> ...


 
 My old pair of ED10 suffered from same issue. It was my most fav IEM until the cable started to come out a little. It worsened its sound by a lot. In past I liked ED10 better than ED9, but the same pair of ED9 sounded much better after this tragedy! Unfortunately another pair I had as a backup (box packed) turned out to be imbalanced. 
  
 Fortunately though new ED11 sounds much similar to what ED10 sounded. I haven't given sufficient time to it yet but will verify later.
 Happy listening!
  


ezekiel77 said:


> One of their ads recommend the ED3 for vocals. I have them on order, will let you know if it works out.


 
 Yup, they do. From my personal experience though I'd favor ATE and HDS1 for vocals. 
 I'd say build your opinion from majority of opinions... and if you can get 'em all  All worth it.


----------



## ezekiel77

KZ are like Pokemon!


----------



## stephanNL

Hi guys,
  
 I grabbed a couple of KZ ED10 a couple of weeks ago but unfortunately they suffered from channel inbalance. The left earpiece had absolutley 0 low end whilst the right one did. I got a refund but I'm still intrigued by the whole KZ hype.
  
 So despite KZ's notoriously bad quality control I might take another chance on one of their offerings. I currently own Xiaomi Piston 2, Piston 3, ROCK Zircon and obviously that pair of F'ed up ED10. I think it's safe to say my preference is a warm and smooth sound. I like bass but don't consider myself a basshead. For examplem the ROCK Zircon out of the box sounded quite boomy to me out of the box.
  
 I quite liked the sound of the ED10, judging on just the right earpiece. I'm quite sensitive to sibilance and piercing highs so I don't need the most sparkly in-ears of the bunch. Which other KZs should I try? And what's the best place to buy them?


----------



## aaDee

I guess KZ has decided to confuse us with loads of options.
 Take this guys...one more to the store
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Original-KZ-ED9S-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/1825606_32548840679.html


----------



## CADCAM

Been contemplating the new ATE-S so I broke out my ATE's and put them on the burn-in station for 2 days non-stop. I think they might sound a bit less dark now. Might also be my imagination but I listened to an entire disc and they sounded very good and slightly better than I remember...


----------



## CADCAM

aadee said:


> I guess KZ has decided to confuse us with loads of options.
> Take this guys...one more to the store
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Original-KZ-ED9S-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/1825606_32548840679.html


 
 Cool color I wish I had known bought 2 in chrome...would have liked the flat black also.


----------



## joemama

stephannl said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I grabbed a couple of KZ ED10 a couple of weeks ago but unfortunately they suffered from channel inbalance. The left earpiece had absolutley 0 low end whilst the right one did. I got a refund but I'm still intrigued by the whole KZ hype.
> 
> ...


 

 Go with either the ATEs or the ANVs (if you can find them). Also, you can cut back the bass on the Zircons by switching to a narrow bore tip.
  
 I've had good luck with Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co., Ltd. and KZ Earphone Wholesale Shopping Center


----------



## joemama

aadee said:


> I guess KZ has decided to confuse us with loads of options.
> Take this guys...one more to the store
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Original-KZ-ED9S-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/1825606_32548840679.html


 
 These look really nice, but I don't have two left ears, so I guess I'll have to pass.


----------



## ajaxender

aadee said:


> I guess KZ has decided to confuse us with loads of options.
> Take this guys...one more to the store
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Original-KZ-ED9S-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/1825606_32548840679.html


 
  
 Ahah! Thats cool, and my ED9 has an imbalance somewhere on the left side, sounds like it hasn't sealed when I use the brass nozzles - but ONLY the brass nozzles, golds are fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Not only that, I had to remove the mesh from my ATE's because one side didn't close. So I'm not sure they sound quite right either. Good excuse to put both these new 's' versions in the cart...
  
  


stephannl said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I grabbed a couple of KZ ED10 a couple of weeks ago but unfortunately they suffered from channel inbalance. The left earpiece had absolutley 0 low end whilst the right one did. I got a refund but I'm still intrigued by the whole KZ hype.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd actually say a Micro Ring if you can find one for a decent price, but they tend to be $40 these days - I only have it cos a store discounted them to $16 one day. Otherwise ZS1 is warm and smooth but very bassy, not boomy though. ED9 might be your best bet if you liked how ED10 sounded, its a little less bassy and smoother too.


----------



## Ruben123

ajaxender said:


> Ahah! Thats cool, and my ED9 has an imbalance somewhere on the left side, sounds like it hasn't sealed when I use the brass nozzles - but ONLY the brass nozzles, golds are fine
> 
> Not only that, I had to remove the mesh from my ATE's because one side didn't close. So I'm not sure they sound quite right either. Good excuse to put both these new 's' versions in the cart...
> 
> ...




Check if the vent holes are completely closed inside the nozzles.


----------



## stephanNL

joemama said:


> Go with either the ATEs or the ANVs (if you can find them). Also, you can cut back the bass on the Zircons by switching to a narrow bore tip.
> 
> I've had good luck with Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co., Ltd. and KZ Earphone Wholesale Shopping Center


 
 Thanks. How about the new ATE S?
  


ajaxender said:


> I'd actually say a Micro Ring if you can find one for a decent price, but they tend to be $40 these days - I only have it cos a store discounted them to $16 one day. Otherwise ZS1 is warm and smooth but very bassy, not boomy though. ED9 might be your best bet if you liked how ED10 sounded, its a little less bassy and smoother too.


 
 Thanks. Micro Ring seems hard to find. ZS1 looks like a difficult fit. 

 How about the HDS1? I'd be open to a more neutral IEM if it's not too sparkly in the highs.
 Also, the ED11 looks the same like the ED10. What are the main differences?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

turkleton said:


> Dude, cmon... One thread was already locked.
> 
> It doesnt matter who started what, be the bigger man and just let it die. There's no point squabbling like girls.


 
 Yeah you're right...
  


aadee said:


> I guess KZ has decided to confuse us with loads of options.
> Take this guys...one more to the store
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Original-KZ-ED9S-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/1825606_32548840679.html


 
 Oh man, I just got ATE Youth Version and ED9 Youth Version today...


----------



## joemama

stephannl said:


> Thanks. How about the new ATE S?
> 
> Thanks. Micro Ring seems hard to find. ZS1 looks like a difficult fit.
> 
> ...


 

 Have no experience with ATE-S or ED11, but own the ED10 and original ATE, which you probably get for less. ATE is more or less pretty laid back . Also own the HDS1, which is pretty awesome IMO. I don't know why I didn't think of this in my original post, other than you asked for a KZ with a "warm and smooth" sound sig


----------



## stephanNL

joemama said:


> Have no experience with ATE-S or ED11, but own the ED10 and original ATE, which you probably get for less. ATE is more or less pretty laid back . Also own the HDS1, which is pretty awesome IMO. I don't know why I didn't think of this in my original post, other than you asked for a KZ with a "warm and smooth" sound sig


 
 True. I was stating that cause most of my current IEMs would be categorised as smooth and warm. I think the Piston 3 is quite neutral though and I quite like it although it could do with a bit more bass. I´ll take a gamble on the HDS1 then. The no mic version is dirt cheap on Banggood at the moment.


----------



## HiFiChris

Guys, my reviews on the ZS1, ED3c and HDS1 are now up!


*ZS1:*
http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone/reviews/14605​  ​ *ED3c:*
http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-ed3c-vigorous-bass-stereo-music-in-ear-monitor-headphones-earbud-with-microphone-red/reviews/14606​  ​ *HDS1:*
http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver/reviews/14607​ 
  ​ Especially the HDS1 is worth to be checked out.​


----------



## ezekiel77

hifichris said:


> Guys, my reviews on the ZS1, ED3c and HDS1 are now up!​


 
  
 Thank you! I have two of these on order.


----------



## nhlean96

Fell in love with the ATEs and ANVs(broken ) and I'm going to buy another KZs, I mainly listen to hard rock, EDM, ... Loved the quick bass of ANV and the sparkle, smooth high of ATEs. I think i'll order the HDS1, according to the review it suits me best


----------



## B9Scrambler

Good choice nhlean96 The HSD1 is flat out fantastic.


----------



## Horton

hifichris said:


> Guys, my reviews on the ZS1, ED3c and HDS1 are now up!​  ​ *HDS1:*
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver/reviews/14607​
> ​ Especially the HDS1 is worth to be checked out.​


 
  
 Quote:


eisenbricher said:


> Rotating between HDS1 and ZS1. What a bass ZS1 has! After some burn in I think the bass has settled and doesn't sound little sloppy as it did before. It's so much more under control now. Still I'd say ZS1 will be most enticing for the bass lovers. On a busy, noisy street ZS1 was absolute pleasure to listen. It did isolate very well as well as kept that bass punching hard.
> 
> Btw, HDS1 look so cute! It's my most favorite looking KZ IEM.


 
 This HDS1 color looks nice, thanks of @HiFichris review


----------



## stjimmyjos

So what to choose to 11$? I will be using IEM-s with Redmi Note 2?
 I hesitate between HDS1, ED10 and ATE?


----------



## CoiL

Has any of You measured HDS1 and ZS1 actual impedances with cable?


----------



## Horton

Quote:


stjimmyjos said:


> So what to choose to 11$? I will be using IEM-s with Redmi Note 2?
> I hesitate between HDS1, ED10 and ATE?


 
 The *HiFiChris, *suggest "Especially the HDS1 is worth to be checked out." the HDS1 also lower than others, but the seller with attached shipping cost, I really hate they setting low price induce me to click, then add the price to shipping cost. VERY boring.


----------



## B9Scrambler

HiFiChris Great reviews. So hard on the ZS1 though (jk). I love em to death but they're a bit of a niche iem.


----------



## Hisoundfi

hifichris said:


> Guys, my reviews on the ZS1, ED3c and HDS1 are now up!
> 
> 
> *ZS1:*
> ...


Hey, 

I just want to send you a big shout out and say great job on these, and all your contributions to the threads. 

Keep up the awesome work, it's stuff like this that makes Head-Fi a great resource. 

Cheers friend


----------



## stephanNL

For everyone interested in the HDS1 but don't necessarily need the mic option, the no mic version is going for DIRT cheap at Banggood! 
 http://www.banggood.com/KZ-HDS1-In-ear-HIFI-Micro-Moving-Coil-Metal-Music-Earphone-Headphone-p-1009175.html


----------



## robvagyok

stephannl said:


> For everyone interested in the HDS1 but don't necessarily need the mic option, the no mic version is going for DIRT cheap at Banggood!
> http://www.banggood.com/KZ-HDS1-In-ear-HIFI-Micro-Moving-Coil-Metal-Music-Earphone-Headphone-p-1009175.html


 
 God I almost bought one from aliexpress, but that's waaaay better


----------



## sgl54

stephannl said:


> For everyone interested in the HDS1 but don't necessarily need the mic option, the no mic version is going for DIRT cheap at Banggood!
> http://www.banggood.com/KZ-HDS1-In-ear-HIFI-Micro-Moving-Coil-Metal-Music-Earphone-Headphone-p-1009175.html



Thank you, Stephan. To cheap to not get a backup. I have had good luck with Bang Good in the past. Thanks again
Happy Thanksgiving all not just here in the U.S.


----------



## davi99

robvagyok said:


> God I almost bought one from aliexpress, but that's waaaay better


 

 its cheaper at ebay. just sayin'


----------



## EISENbricher

stephannl said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I grabbed a couple of KZ ED10 a couple of weeks ago but unfortunately they suffered from channel inbalance. The left earpiece had absolutley 0 low end whilst the right one did. I got a refund but I'm still intrigued by the whole KZ hype.
> 
> ...



About QC I'd say try to buy fron KZ's official store and not the resellers. As per my experience goes stuff from their store never failed me while reseller items had issues many times. 

About your need ATE and ZS1 would fit very good. There is no sibilance there and still they sound awesome.


----------



## aaDee

You got exactly 20mins to order these..at $6.33
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-3-5mm-Mini-Metal-DIY-Headset-HD-Dynamic-pronunciation-Ear-Headphones-/391276193139?var=&hash=item99cbed3053&vti=Color%09Yellow


----------



## Wallzii

Well, I've been looking to replace the pair of JVC HA-FXD80s that I had (and absolutely loved!), which were stolen while I was at a hostel in Peru. Being a poor student now (what's disposable income, again?), I couldn't bring myself to pay for a replacement pair, and didn't want to spend a lot on something different that might disappoint. For portability reasons, I don't bring my over-ear headphones to school, so I've been stuck with my ****ty iPod headphones ever since; yikes!

Anyway, somehow I stumbled upon this thread, having never heard of KZ before, and after all the glowing feedback from people, I'd be silly not to spend the ~$10 on something to get rid of the ****ty iPod headphones I've been using. I've settled on and ordered the HDS1, and while they might not be able to truly replace my old JVCs, I can't wait to get them and try them out. Waiting for overseas shipping is always such a tedious process.


----------



## paixkeeper

aadee said:


> You got exactly 20mins to order these..at $6.33
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-3-5mm-Mini-Metal-DIY-Headset-HD-Dynamic-pronunciation-Ear-Headphones-/391276193139?var=&hash=item99cbed3053&vti=Color%09Yellow




I rushed my order in last night because of the little time left but it appears that it is only the seller's trick as it is listed again today haha. 

Nonetheless, the price is best atm lets hope that it arrives.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wallzii said:


> Well, I've been looking to replace the pair of JVC HA-FXD80s that I had (and absolutely loved!), which were stolen while I was at a hostel in Peru. Being a poor student now (what's disposable income, again?), I couldn't bring myself to pay for a replacement pair, and didn't want to spend a lot on something different that might disappoint. For portability reasons, I don't bring my over-ear headphones to school, so I've been stuck with my ****ty iPod headphones ever since; yikes!
> 
> Anyway, somehow I stumbled upon this thread, having never heard of KZ before, and after all the glowing feedback from people, I'd be silly not to spend the ~$10 on something to get rid of the ****ty iPod headphones I've been using. I've settled on and ordered the HDS1, and while they might not be able to truly replace my old JVCs, I can't wait to get them and try them out. Waiting for overseas shipping is always such a tedious process.


 
  
Why hello there. Great choice with the HSD1. They are amazing and since you liked the FXD80, you will surely like these inexpensive little KZs as well. It's hard to believe that something that sounds so good could be had for $10.
 
When it comes time to upgrade and if you want to stay within the JVC microdriver family, make sure you check out the FXD successors; the FXH20 and/or FXH30. They are a massive improvement over the older FXD series (I have the FRD60 and 80, and FXH30), and a heck of a lot cheaper to boot!


----------



## aaDee

paixkeeper said:


> I rushed my order in last night because of the little time left but it appears that it is only the seller's trick as it is listed again today haha.
> 
> Nonetheless, the price is best atm lets hope that it arrives.


 

 Yeah...I'm hoping the new ATE and ED9 have improved sound. Otherwise it makes no sense in buying the same thing in different shapes and colours


----------



## stephanNL

eisenbricher said:


> About QC I'd say try to buy fron KZ's official store and not the resellers. As per my experience goes stuff from their store never failed me while reseller items had issues many times.
> 
> About your need ATE and ZS1 would fit very good. There is no sibilance there and still they sound awesome.


 
 Thanks. Where can I find the official KZ store? I've seen many AliExpress sellers try to pose as the official KZ and when I search for a specific KZ model I hardly ever stumble across anything that looks official.
  
 I'll keep the ATE and ZS1 in mind. I'm going to wait for my HDS1 to arrive first. Thanks for your advice though


----------



## CADCAM

ATE-S & ED3 Acme ordered...


----------



## mauriciocg

I was in doubt over ZS1 and ATE-S
 Ordered today the ATE-S 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now doubt about Rock Zircon or another one balanced with some bass that have Mic/Remote control.


----------



## peter123

mauriciocg said:


> I was in doubt over ZS1 and ATE-S
> Ordered today the ATE-S
> 
> Now doubt about Rock Zircon or another one balanced with some bass that have Mic/Remote control.




Without stepping on any toes here: if you're looking for balanced I'd stay away from the Zircons.


----------



## mauriciocg

I know the zircon is almost a bass head phone. As I said, I like bass. But looking for something more balanced. If don't find nothing as much...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wallzii

b9scrambler said:


> Why hello there. Great choice with the HSD1. They are amazing and since you liked the FXD80, you will surely like these inexpensive little KZs as well. It's hard to believe that something that sounds so good could be had for $10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you for the heads-up on the FXH30. You're review on those is very informative and detailed; they definitely look like something I'd be interested in. Perhaps down the road I'll invest in a pair, as the price looks pretty good too.


----------



## JohnVoight

ED4 is out

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED4-Metal-Stereo-Noise-Isolating-In-ear-Music-Headphones/32551443670.html


----------



## chavez

johnvoight said:


> ED4 is out
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED4-Metal-Stereo-Noise-Isolating-In-ear-Music-Headphones/32551443670.html


 
  
 KZ is so mean lol.You order new pair,they take a month to get to you,and when they do,new one comes out.Ayy,


----------



## B9Scrambler

johnvoight said:


> ED4 is out
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED4-Metal-Stereo-Noise-Isolating-In-ear-Music-Headphones/32551443670.html




Those look awesome! KZ and JVC. My two favs


----------



## jant71

Nice find! Those look good. Semi-open and a fairly large housing and 9.4mm driver should have a nice big stage if they didn't mess it up somehow. Can't go wrong for $13 if they are another improvement. Though, "horror explosive power" is kinda scary, lol!


----------



## davi99

i love how they keep products under 20$. Its endless circle for us. 

 Btw, i think KZ headphones are not underpriced. Other earphones are OVERpriced.


----------



## davi99

What do you recommend for Balanced sound with solid bass on it? Not overhelming bass with balanced sound, any toughts?


----------



## wastan

johnvoight said:


> ED4 is out
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED4-Metal-Stereo-Noise-Isolating-In-ear-Music-Headphones/32551443670.html




With ad copy like "HORROR EXPLOSIVE POWER" you've almost got to buy these, no?


----------



## Podster

wastan said:


> With ad copy like "HORROR EXPLOSIVE POWER" you've almost got to buy these, no?


 

 Sounds like an M80 for the ears


----------



## sgl54

wastan said:


> With ad copy like "HORROR EXPLOSIVE POWER" you've almost got to buy these, no?




I like it! Since I believe everything I see in print and absolutly everything in ads. After all aren't they like mini reviews? Let's see what's the last thing I got sucked into because of the name? Um, oh yeah that was the " Acme".


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> I like it! Since I believe everything I see in print and absolutly everything in ads. After all aren't they like mini reviews? Let's see what's the last thing I got sucked into because of the name? Um, oh yeah that was the " Acme".




You could certainly get sucked into something worse than "The Acme". :3


----------



## ezekiel77

HDS2 is out and looks exactly like the Yamaha EPH100 lol.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> You could certainly get sucked into something worse than "The Acme". :3



I'm sure your right, I hope so. Reviews were good, but honestly I really liked the name, it somehow struck a chord. Maybe it was that the "Coyote" ( from the Road Runner and Coyote Cartoon fame) got the most amazing stuff from Acme. Kz is just like that!


----------



## CADCAM

So after much listening I'm going to have to say ED9 with brass\dull nozzles are my favorite KZ along with the HDS1.
 The HDS1 cable is its only negative for me as sound and comfort are excellent...comfort a bit better than the ED9. I unlike some don't have an issue with the ED9 comfort wise and it just sounds right to me across the board. The HDS1 is also fantastic and after listening back to back with my Zircons I prefer the HDS1. The Zircon is excellent but the bass is just too much with some material. I did have a blast listening to Dream Theater through the Zircon's and I think they're a great option for metal. There's just something special about the ED9 & HDS1 that keeps me reaching for them over the others. I also have grown to appreciate the ATE...thoroughly enjoy them and will be keeping them as well. I ordered the ATE-S hoping it's a similar yet improved version. I do have ED3, ED3 Acme and ZS1 on the way also so depending on how they sound things may change but right now it's ED9 & HDS1 tied for first place with me out of all my IEM's.
 Thanks Head-Fi as I now own the following and spend hours away from my family~
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Kz HDS1
 Kz ED-9
 Kz ED-10
 Kz ATE 
 Kz Edse
 Meelec CW31 Wooden 
 Mrice BALDOOR E300 
 Philips SHE3580
 Xiaomi Piston 2 
 ROCK Mula
 ROCK Zircon
 VE Monk
  
_on the way!_
_*ED3_
_*ED3 Acme    _
_*ATE-S_
_*ZS1_


----------



## davi99

i think kz staff pricing  their iems according to rewievs at this topic.. 

 ed9 is not mocked a lot, thus it price is always above 12 $, ed10 and ed11 mocked a lot, their price is 8 or 9$..


----------



## mebaali

Received HDS1 (ordered from ebay for 6.43$ on 28th October) this morning.
  
 OOTB with Piston 2 medium tips (sits/fits better than stock tips for my ear canal) - This is how i feel, these are sounding,
  
 Bass is tight+lean (more mid-bass emphasis but without bleeding onto other frequencies), greatly extended treble (no hotness/harshness/peaks, are very smooth), vocals are neither recessed nor too forward (sounds about natural), overall clarity and detail retrieval are simply amazing (best part of these earphones for me), soundstage width is slightly underwhelming for my liking (sounds a bit congested on some tracks).
  
 These are one of the smallest IEMs, I have ever used. Build quality is decent and cable is KZs usual rubbery type ones.
  
 So far, tried mainly listening to music from the likes of The Fray, Vertical Horizon, The Cult, Travis, Aerosmith, ATB, Alesso, Akon (either 320kbps MP3 or 256kbps AAC files)
  
 Audio Gear used - Fiio X1 LO + Topping NX1 Low Gain (at 20% Volume)
  
 (Below image is with stock tips. Since taking this pic in the morning, I have changed the tips to Piston 2 medium sized tips)


----------



## peter123

mauriciocg said:


> I know the zircon is almost a bass head phone. As I said, I like bass. But looking for something more balanced. If don't find nothing as much...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I'm sorry I misunderstood your post.

A lot of people enjoy a balanced sound with a slight bass boost. Unfortunately great quantity and quality bass combined with a good balance on the rest of the spectrum is not easy to find in cheap IEM's if you're looking for good deep bass and very little bleed into the other frequencies.

Since this is the KZ thread I'd assume that you're looking for something in their price range?

I really like both the ED9 and HDS1 and find them fairly well balanced. The HDS1 also have quite good bass presence but more midbass than subbass depth. 

I honestly can't think of any balanced sub $20 IEM's that's better than these two but you may or may not find the subbass to be too little. At the price though I cannot se any reason not to give the HDS1 a shot.


----------



## HiFiChris

davi99 said:


> i think kz staff pricing  their iems according to rewievs at this topic..
> 
> ed9 is not mocked a lot, thus it price is always above 12 $, ed10 and ed11 mocked a lot, their price is 8 or 9$..


 

 Well, does it really matter whether they are priced $8, $10 or $12? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


mebaali said:


> Received HDS1 [...]


 
  
 Also match my impressions/review.

 By the way, if I am not horribly wrong, the in-ear bodies are made of metal with a thick paint coating. I have got the silver version (http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver/reviews/14607) which does not seem to be thickly painted and am quite certain that these aren't made of plastic.


----------



## mebaali

hifichris said:


> Also match my impressions/review.
> 
> By the way, if I am not horribly wrong, the in-ear bodies are made of metal with a thick paint coating. I have got the silver version (http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver/reviews/14607) which does not seem to be thickly painted and am quite certain that these aren't made of plastic.


 
 Oops!
  
 These are so light in weight (+ red paint on the shell doesn't reveal much about the underlying material) that I was under the impression that the shells are of made of plastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit: Just gone through your review (again), it indeed matches with what i am hearing in HDS1


----------



## HiFiChris

At first, I thought my ED3c were made of plastic (same red paint coating).

 I am quite sure that if I had a coloured pair of HDS1, I would have thought they were made of plastic as well due to their surface feel and little weight.

 But one thing is for sure - the ZS1 and ATE are made of plastic (or probably tinted glass? Nah, just kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## zzhead

"" davi99
 offline

i love how they keep products under 20$. Its endless circle for us. 

Btw, i think KZ headphones are not underpriced. Other earphones are OVERpriced. """





Extremely accurate comment.!!!!
ex factory price will be a few pennies.
ex factory price for an i phone is 50-60 dollars
and they sell for close to a thousand.
Consumers are trained to believe that
cheap is always crappy..
ty


----------



## B9Scrambler

This thread needs more eye candy!
  
*HDS1*
  

  
*ED3c "The Acme"*
  

  
*ZS1*


----------



## sgl54

davi99 said:


> i think kz staff pricing  their iems according to rewievs at this topic..
> 
> 
> ed9 is not mocked a lot, thus it price is always above 12 $, ed10 and ed11 mocked a lot, their price is 8 or 9$..



It makes a certain sense, the Ed9 remains a solid piece of kit. Fortunatly they haven't chosen to inflated the price ( like the micro rings). It seems to me that $12.00 price is what I paid for my first pair and I felt it was a great price. It's an easy one to recommend, it seems to work for everyone!


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> This thread needs more eye candy!
> 
> *HDS1*
> 
> ...



Nice work. Yes more eye candy. It always surprises me how well built ( for the most part) and how different the Kz's range is.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> Nice work. Yes more eye candy. It always surprises me how well built ( for the most part) and how different the Kz's range is.


 
  
 Thanks!  Found my old-point and shoot Nikon and decided to see what the pictures were like compared to my HTC One M8. I think it's safe to say, a heck of a lot nicer, haha.
  
 There are a couple KZ that are not overly well-built, but those are mostly the earliest models, like the DS. I'm glad KZ moved towards creating their own unique designs (with a couple exceptions). While they are all quite varied, at least KZ has their own style.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Thanks!  Found my old-point and shoot Nikon and decided to see what the pictures were like compared to my HTC One M8. I think it's safe to say, a heck of a lot nicer, haha.
> 
> There are a couple KZ that are not overly well-built, but those are mostly the earliest models, like the DS. I'm glad KZ moved towards creating their own unique designs (with a couple exceptions). While they are all quite varied, at least KZ has their own style.



It's easy to forget what difference a dedicated " real" camera makes. The blasted cell phones are just so handy though.
I don't know much about the early Kz line. I jumped on board with the Ed9 and Ed3 ( just about the time I joined the board) so I missed the outwardly design copying that went on. Although I would have liked the Micro ring and possibly the Gr I think I hit it about right. I even have been lucky enough to miss any QC issues ( not a bad jne in the bunch) that seem to happen later in a runs. But know I think I need to drag out camera and support your eye candy initiative.


----------



## dokkj

I think I'll go for the HDS1 and maybe the ED9. As much as I'd like to order right now, I'm worried they'll show up when I'm out of town and it'll just get lost in the holiday shuffle of packages.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

sgl54 said:


> Nice work. Yes more eye candy. It always surprises me how well built ( for the most part) and how different the Kz's range is.


 

 Took some with my Xperia Z1, sorry about the crappy desk lamp lighting. (drag & drop the image to your address bar to open in full quality)


----------



## sgl54

igor eisberg said:


> Took some with my Xperia Z1, sorry about the crappy desk lamp lighting. (drag & drop the image to your address bar to open in full quality)



Thanks IE, it's still nice to see to see them in a natural setting. The Xsperia is a good little tablet it just very difficult to get decent depth of field and natural color saturation with them. The lamp? It's winter, you needed light you use what you've got handy. It's all good! It's still nice to have pictures. It livens up the post thanks to you and b9Scrambler. I'll work at getting some up soon as well


----------



## sgl54

Zn1's with and without artistic license.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

sgl54 said:


> Thanks IE, it's still nice to see to see them in a natural setting. The Xsperia is a good little tablet it just very difficult to get decent depth of field and natural color saturation with them. The lamp? It's winter, you needed light you use what you've got handy. It's all good! It's still nice to have pictures. It livens up the post thanks to you and b9Scrambler. I'll work at getting some up soon as well


 
 Thanks bro. Already ordered the ED4, hope it arrives soon so I could post some decent snaps 
  


sgl54 said:


> Zn1's with and without artistic license.


 

 Awesome quality! Which cam are you using?


----------



## sgl54

igor eisberg said:


> Thanks bro. Already ordered the ED4, hope it arrives soon so I could post some decent snaps
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome quality! Which cam are you using?



Those were taken with a Canon Rebel Xsi with an 18 X 55mm lens. It will take great pictures and probably like b6Scrambler I don't use it often enough.


----------



## chavez

I think I already posted this one.


----------



## sgl54

igor eisberg said:


> Thanks bro. Already ordered the ED4, hope it arrives soon so I could post some decent snaps
> 
> I'm ready to order those along with the ATE-s. I have an " argent" as well white, Hds1 coming and the " Acme". I've have been spending some of my Kz money on couple of off brands these last couple of weeks. So I'm little behind , but I'll catch up


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Has any of You measured HDS1 and ZS1 actual impedances with cable?


 
 no any surprises?


----------



## mebaali

My small KZ collection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (Cost me approximately 51 US$ for this whole bunch. Except for HDS1 which I had bought from eBay, rest all were from Aliexpress)
  

  
 (Sorry for the poor pic quality, not a photography expert here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. BTW, used Oneplus One's default camera app with default settings)


----------



## mebaali

HDS1's capability to retrieve minutest of the sound detail just amazes me. Among KZs I have tried so far, I find these to provide me the highest possible resolution when used with right source/gear. It scales fantastically well. Absolutely love listening to my favt genres (Post/instrumental Rock) in these little gems.


----------



## Wokei

KZ MICRO RING .....still one of me fav


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> KZ MICRO RING .....still one of me fav




Yeah!! Wokei knows where it's at  The Ring is still one of the best too.


----------



## Wokei

[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]





b9scrambler said:


> Yeah!! Wokei knows where it's at  The Ring is still one of the best too.




One of those not widely owned by KZ fan boi .....but The Ring need to get more luvvvvvv......imho balanced sound and does everything just right across the sound spectrum without being harsh or sibbliance for the treble sensitive or lack of bass or sounding weak in the bass department ....its a sound sig very easy to listen to whole day and personally the fitting is excellent ......pssssssst ...they are real small.....lol


----------



## sgl54

mebaali said:


> My small KZ collection   (Cost me approximately 51 US$ for this whole bunch. Except for HDS1 which I had bought from eBay, rest all were from Aliexpress)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, if you were (photg) you'd be on a different board and all your money would go for lenses, filters and some such. Instead of enjoying these great musical Kz's.


----------



## vad0s

I am considering buying HDS1. Could anyone compare them with ED9 (gold nozzles)? Are HDS1 closer to gold or brass nozzles? Thanks.


----------



## zzhead

Hi to all,
Just a quick question.
I already own KZ ATE, ED10, and HDS1.
Should I go for a piston 3 or should I'd rather wait for the next KZ miracle?
I feel that it is an impulse (???) buy mostly based on design.
Mainly listen to soft ambient music, jazz and classic/opera.
Thank you in advance


----------



## B9Scrambler

zzhead said:


> Hi to all,
> Just a quick question.
> I already own KZ ATE, ED10, and HDS1.
> Should I go for a piston 3 or should I'd rather wait for the next KZ miracle?
> ...




I would say go for it. I have the P3 along with a slew of KZs (including those you mentioned). It's a good iem and would fit in with what you have quite nicely.


----------



## sgl54

wokei said:


> KZ MICRO RING .....still one of me fav



This is one I sorely wish I hadn't missed. And while it's probably worth the current price it's hard to justify the " value added fee". Maybe they'll add a new enhanced Micro Ring Acme version!


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> I would say go for it. I have the P3 along with a slew of KZs (including those you mentioned). It's a good iem and would fit in with what you have quite nicely.



P3 and the Hybrid and the latest greatest Kz's and the next and…… .?… ..?
Consider throwing in something like the Havi B3p1 or IEM500 Puro's for reference especially for the classical music


----------



## sgl54

zzhead said:


> Hi to all,
> Just a quick question.
> I already own KZ ATE, ED10, and HDS1.
> Should I go for a piston 3 or should I'd rather wait for the next KZ miracle?
> ...



It's early amd my answer followed b9Scrambler and it went like this.
P3 and the Hyrid ( v shaped sound signature) The next latest greatest Kz..…? ...… . ( choice of sound signature) 1 or 2 for Jazz, 2 or 3 for classical and.… I would also recommend something along the lines of the Havi b3p1 or Puro iem500 for reference and those middle of the night or in the small of the morning lost in the sound listening experiances.


----------



## sgl54

Edse


----------



## sgl54

Zn1 and Zs1


----------



## Hisoundfi

Pulled the trigger on the HDS1 AND ED4 last night. 

I've been really impressed with the shipping times recently.


----------



## sgl54

hisoundfi said:


> Pulled the trigger on the HDS1 AND ED4 last night.
> 
> I've been really impressed with the shipping times recently.


 

 I agree with shipping times. I ordered 4 water proof hard case's through TomTop. Placed the order on the 23rd Monday afternoon  in California all four arrived the Saturday the 28th  ( this makes sense ) I did order the expensive $2.11 ea cases . Ordered 3 KZ's the following day, different vendor I'm not optimistic they'll arrive tomorrow. But hopefully there making a change for " holiday" shipments.


----------



## CADCAM

sgl54 said:


> Zn1 and Zs1
> .
> 
> .


 
 Looks like your using a wide bore on the ZN1 and a narrow bore on the ZS1...are those spinfits on the ZS1? 
 My ZS1's are on the way, don't have the ZN1.


----------



## dokkj

Where are you guys buying from that have these quick turn around times for shipping? Someone that doesn't take a month to ship to NA?


----------



## CADCAM

vad0s said:


> I am considering buying HDS1. Could anyone compare them with ED9 (gold nozzles)? Are HDS1 closer to gold or brass nozzles? Thanks.


 
 ED9 gold nozzles have much more bass V sound sig...HDS1 sound is more balanced and closer to brass nozzle ED9.


----------



## fallrsk

dokkj said:


> Where are you guys buying from that have these quick turn around times for shipping? Someone that doesn't take a month to ship to NA?


 
 ePacket is the name, fast shipping's their game.. It's USPS and China Post's lovechild and it simply pushes these packages through like lightning; you even get to use USPS tracking from the get go and it averages 5-8 days of shipping. I honestly never want to order from China again without an ePacket delivery option. (It's free, too!)


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> Looks like your using a wide bore on the ZN1 and a narrow bore on the ZS1...are those spinfits on the ZS1?
> My ZS1's are on the way, don't have the ZN1.



Yes I'm using the Kz blue whirlwinds ( widebore) on the Zn1's they work very well on it, they let you electronicly EQ everything instead if working it out with tips. The Sn1's do have the Spinfits with an aperture right in the middle between the blue and red Kz whirlwinds. They work well, I think that's mostly the fit. They make the Zs1's into a simple throw em on and listen. Which is just how I like my IEM's! I think you'll like them they're not for everything but when they work they make a huge difference. I got another couple sets comming as well (cheaper amd the package looks different) as well we'll see. As far as the Zn1's after you get over the absurd EQ placement issue they are great, they are hands down my favorite Kz's


----------



## Horton

hifichris said:


> At first, I thought my ED3c were made of plastic (same red paint coating).
> 
> I am quite sure that if I had a coloured pair of HDS1, I would have thought they were made of plastic as well due to their surface feel and little weight.
> 
> ...


 
 The HDS1 & ED3c is aluminium alloy material, may be feel light as plastic. Also could scrape the paint to try


----------



## dokkj

fallrsk said:


> ePacket is the name, fast shipping's their game.. It's USPS and China Post's lovechild and it simply pushes these packages through like lightning; you even get to use USPS tracking from the get go and it averages 5-8 days of shipping. I honestly never want to order from China again without an ePacket delivery option. (It's free, too!)


 
 Thanks, now I've got to find sellers that offer it.
  
 edit - well this is unfortunate, checked out every listing on on the first page for the HDS1 on Alieexpress, no epacket offered for Canadians lol. I haven't seen it as an option on ebay either.


----------



## B9Scrambler

---Scrapped--- All has been clarified. Can't wait to check out the ED4.


----------



## dbhai

fallrsk said:


> ePacket is the name, fast shipping's their game.. It's USPS and China Post's lovechild and it simply pushes these packages through like lightning; you even get to use USPS tracking from the get go and it averages 5-8 days of shipping. I honestly never want to order from China again without an ePacket delivery option. (It's free, too!)


 
  
  


dokkj said:


> Thanks, now I've got to find sellers that offer it.
> 
> edit - well this is unfortunate, checked out every listing on on the first page for the HDS1 on Alieexpress, no epacket offered for Canadians lol. I haven't seen it as an option on ebay either.


 
  
 I believe that is more a service used by eBay sellers and not AliExpress ones, but does sound interesting


----------



## fallrsk

dbhai said:


> I believe that is more a service used by eBay sellers and not AliExpress ones, but does sound interesting



Correct, atleast originally correct. It's now widely used by Aliexpress vendors also.


----------



## BurntToast12

After reading this thread I still can't figure out which KZ's should I get.
 Can someone fill me in on the best KZ so far?


----------



## Niyologist

I bought the KZ-ATE. I couldn't resist. It was on sale at Gearbest. Only $9.99. 
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216375.html


----------



## EISENbricher

horton said:


> The HDS1 & ED3c is aluminium alloy material, may be feel light as plastic. Also could scrape the paint to try


 
 Which are the best sounding KZ models today? 
 I'm really loving ZS1 for powerful sound and HDS1 for balanced sound. What about HDS2/Micro Ring?


----------



## dbhai

oh ok cool, thank you for sharing that, though I am yet to encounter such sellers on Aliexpress,


----------



## fallrsk

niyologist said:


> I bought the KZ-ATE. I couldn't resist. It was on sale at Gearbest. Only $9.99.
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216375.html



I dont wanna be that guy but.. You kinda got ripped off. The ATE-S with ePacket shipping(5 days vs 1 month for standard shipling) is 9.54.. http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32543395782.html


----------



## Niyologist

fallrsk said:


> I dont wanna be that guy but.. You kinda got ripped off. The ATE-S with ePacket shipping(5 days vs 1 month for standard shipling) is 9.54.. http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32543395782.html


 
 I can buy this one too. Thanks for the link. Also, the shipping from GB is around a week. 
  
 EDIT: I cancelled my order on Gearbest.


----------



## fallrsk

Ah, yeah most sites take about a month for shipping to arrive in US, had no idea it was so quick to GB lol!


----------



## Lifted Andreas

niyologist said:


> I can buy this one too. Thanks for the link. Also, the shipping from GB is around a week.
> 
> EDIT: I cancelled my order on Gearbest.




I'm really tempted to order them.


----------



## Niyologist

fallrsk said:


> Ah, yeah most sites take about a month for shipping to arrive in US, had no idea it was so quick to GB lol!


 
  
 Yeah. GB is absurdly fast with their shipping. Sadly they don't sell the KZ ATE S atm. 
  


lifted andreas said:


> I'm really tempted to order them.


 
  
 Yup. I already pulled the trigger on the KZ-ATE S on Aliexpress.


----------



## sgl54

eisenbricher said:


> Which are the best sounding KZ models today?
> I'm really loving ZS1 for powerful sound and HDS1 for balanced sound. What about HDS2/Micro Ring?



Glad you're liking the Zs1. I think gevin you like it so well you'd definatly like the Zn1 experiance. It's still my favorite. Then it's probably the Zs the 9's Ate's, Edrse but that may change as my Hds1, Ed3 "Acme" come into play. But honestly you should find a pair of Zn1's they'll drop below that $28 level sometime.


----------



## CADCAM

burnttoast12 said:


> After reading this thread I still can't figure out which KZ's should I get.
> Can someone fill me in on the best KZ so far?


 
 KZ ED9 or HDS1 IMHO of course...


----------



## Ira Delphic

I just received my *KZ-HDS1 * ordered from Ebay. It was the mic version, but the seller didn't mention mic.
 IEM's or headphones with mic's cause a problem (weird sound problems) when hooked up to my PC. For V-Moda and Dolphins I just reverse the direction of the cord, mic closer to the PC jack and the problem is solved.
  
 But I digress... the *KZ-HDS1 * has very good sound, are tiny, and I love the fit. I'll be ordering another pair today. This time without the mic.


----------



## CADCAM

Hey guys I've been messaging The Official KZ Flagship store on the differences between the ATE and ATE-S and although they have responded its not with any answers to my question. Anyone else tried getting info from them? Result?


----------



## fallrsk

The differences seem to be (ate first, ates second) copper vs copper beryllium driver, hang weights vs memory wire, copper connection to earpiece vs red plastic (like zs1), and a nicer looking mic along with "new sound tuning".. So, it's probably like the difference between the perfection and acme ed3? I personally haven't asked anyone but that's what you can get from their descriptions. Also seems like they changed the shells a little.


----------



## CADCAM

I already ordered them (ATE-S) and have been trying to listen to my original ATE as much as possible so I can get a good comparison. I'll post opinions when they get in.


----------



## EISENbricher

sgl54 said:


> Glad you're liking the Zs1. I think gevin you like it so well you'd definatly like the Zn1 experiance. It's still my favorite. Then it's probably the Zs the 9's Ate's, Edrse but that may change as my Hds1, Ed3 "Acme" come into play. But honestly you should find a pair of Zn1's they'll drop below that $28 level sometime.


 
 Yup, it's the best bass slam I can hear from whatever collection I do have. 
 Hmm... Maybe, but I don't see that happening especially since KZ keeps launching newer products. Already thinking of getting ED4 and HDS2!!


----------



## Niyologist

cadcam said:


> I already ordered them (ATE-S) and have been trying to listen to my original ATE as much as possible so I can get a good comparison. I'll post opinions when they get in.




My ATE-S is about to ship out. I'll post some impressions in a couple of weeks or less.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

niyologist said:


> My ATE-S is about to ship out. I'll post some impressions in a couple of weeks or less.




I was gonna order some too but ended up buying something more tasteful. The new First Harmonic IEB6.


----------



## sgl54

eisenbricher said:


> Yup, it's the best bass slam I can hear from whatever collection I do have.
> Hmm... Maybe, but I don't see that happening especially since KZ keeps launching newer products. Already thinking of getting ED4 and HDS2!!




I'm pretry much sold on the Ed4 the HDS2 I'm unsure of then once the HSD1 gets here it may push me that way. I was ready to order the ATE-s but I noticed I have another Ed10 and translucent ATE with mic coming from them ( I decided I needed the mic versions for the car) seemed like a good excuse. I Never like to have to many in the pipe from one vendor . I think the Zn will get cheap some time, look what happened with the Zs1, and HDS1 and…


----------



## fallrsk

Bought zircon's for a buddy of mine, threw in some misc accessories and an ED4 for myself! It was tough choosing between the acme, hds1 and ed4, here's to hoping I chose well.


----------



## sgl54

fallrsk said:


> Bought zircon's for a buddy of mine, threw in some misc accessories and an ED4 for myself! It was tough choosing between the acme, hds1 and ed4, here's to hoping I chose well.



By all accounts the Zircoms are good, can't miss with that your friend will like em. Tough call between the Acme and the ED4 seems as if they'll be more alike then different and the HDS1's are really cheap right ( I grabned a couple at $6.33 each, a week ago) That may mean they may not be around a lot longer. But there still heading down. Of those you mentioned there all great.


----------



## Niyologist

lifted andreas said:


> niyologist said:
> 
> 
> > My ATE-S is about to ship out. I'll post some impressions in a couple of weeks or less.
> ...




Looks like an interesting choice.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> One of those not widely owned by KZ fan boi .....but The Ring need to get more luvvvvvv......imho balanced sound and does everything just right across the sound spectrum without being harsh or sibbliance for the treble sensitive or lack of bass or sounding weak in the bass department ....its a sound sig very easy to listen to whole day and personally the fitting is excellent ......pssssssst ...they are real small.....lol


 
  
 Here you go buddy! Some much needed Micro Ring love.
  
​  
 ZS1 and HDS1...I'm really bouncing between these two as my favorite KZs. The HDS1 offers up a nice balanced sound, while the ZS1? Well, it doesn't, haha. Like Eisen said, the ZS1 has some serious bass slam. I have to say that after many, many hours of play time that crazy bass has settled down quite a bit allowing the creamy mids and smooth treble to shine. I'm not a huge proponent of burn in, but I do feel the new ED3c "The Acme", HDS1 and ZS1 all benefit from some serious play time; ED3c especially. The ED3c sits right between the ZS1 and HDS1 in sound; big bass with the nice mids and treble of the HDS1 (just not quite a detailed or extended). This trio is awesome. 
  
 Some more pics!
  
​


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Here you go buddy! Some much needed Micro Ring love.
> 
> 
> ​
> ...




Thanks B9....nowadays me more of clarity and detail sound sig kinda guy.....bright for some or harsh or peaky for bass head..my bass level is along the line of Havi and me is fine with it...still one of the best pic of Micro Ring


----------



## Squalo

Just looking around Aliexpress i see KZ-store has ED9 at $9.27 without mic and $9.73 with mic. (Old one not the black one.)
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED9-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/1358152_32372852938.html
  
 Think that's about $2 or something off... If someone is interested...


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Thanks B9....nowadays me more of clarity and detail sound sig kinda guy.....bright for some or harsh or peaky for bass head..my bass level is along the line of Havi and me is fine with it...still one of the best pic of Micro Ring


 
  
I clearly still like my big ol' bass monsters  The ZS1 is just too much fun for me to pass up. I think you will quite like the HDS1 should you pick up a pair. They're pretty darn awesome. I would still like to see a proper followup to the Micro Ring, but the HDS1 will do for now


----------



## Lifted Andreas

niyologist said:


> Looks like an interesting choice.




Yeah sure does, I am a micro driver addict ever since the EPH100. 

Really interested to see how the IEB6 will present my fav music, trance!


----------



## B9Scrambler

lifted andreas said:


> Yeah sure does, I am a micro driver addict ever since the EPH100.
> 
> Really interested to see how the IEB6 will present my fav music, trance!




Hopefully it's awesome!


----------



## Lifted Andreas

b9scrambler said:


> Hopefully it's awesome!




Yeah me too, for some reason I can't stand the fit of normal sized driver IEMs anymore. They are just too big for my ears, well most of them. With a shallow fit which I don't like for some reason.


----------



## sgl54

wokei said:


> Thanks B9....nowadays me more of clarity and detail sound sig kinda guy.....bright for some or harsh or peaky for bass head..my bass level is along the line of Havi and me is fine with it...still one of the best pic of Micro Ring



I agree it'a a superb picture of the micro ring. As far as the more analytical approach of the above mentioned while I have the others "in the mail" I do have the Zs1. The bass compared to the Havi b3p1 is much stronger, not any deeper than the Havi just about 2 or 3 notches more pronounced.through out the bass range. The mids are about the same level as the Havi but with out as precise retrival the bass and mids tend to blend a little. I can't really say they over power or really bleed into the mids but close. The high are strong not as forward as the bass up maybe a notch. The over all sound stage isn't quite as large as the Havi but decent. Hope this helps. But if yoir lopking for the Havi signature in a Kz you'll need to look at the Zn1. It's close at this point ( couple of montjs use) it's 90 to 95% of the Havi, very mooth nice instrament placememt upper end end retrival ( heigth?) Isn't quit there but getting close.


----------



## dokkj

Just pick between whoever is selling the HDS1 and ED9 cheapest? I'll just wait the month for delivery. Anything different with the black ED9?


----------



## robvagyok

been listening to the KZ ATE this weekend, still not impressed.
 real PITA to find a good seal, and also it seems placement affecting the fit, so I have to play around every time....
 they are also bulky for my taste (or I do have small ears)
  
 it's worth the $7-8 I paid them for, but certainly not a lot more.
 with all of it's flaws and limitations I still found the EDSE a better KZ (haven't heard the ED9 and still waiting for the ED3)


----------



## Out7p

Hi guys I'm new to looking at KZ iems. Which models are widely regarded as the best quality/favourites?

Thanks!


----------



## Lifted Andreas

out7p said:


> Hi guys I'm new to looking at KZ iems. Which models are widely regarded as the best quality/favourites?
> 
> Thanks!




Read back through the thread mate, this has been discussed many times.


----------



## ayao

out7p said:


> Hi guys I'm new to looking at KZ iems. Which models are widely regarded as the best quality/favourites?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 From what I've read, the HDS1 seems to be one of the current favourites.


----------



## CADCAM

Just got my ZS1 in last nite and took a quick listen...sounded good a little disjointed...reminded me of a satellite\sub system at times. I'm really iffy on that memory wire. I have them burning in and will take another listen after work but they sounded pretty good for the 13 bucks I paid. Got some spiral dots in too so I can experiment.
  
 Also got a backup set of Zircons in which I almost wish I didn't order as they are a little too much for me in the bass after a few listening sessions...bass on the ZS1 on the other hand sounded a bit more realistic.


----------



## fallrsk

cadcam said:


> Also got a backup set of Zircons in which I almost wish I didn't order as they are a little too much for me in the bass after a few listening sessions...bass on the ZS1 on the other hand sounded a bit more realistic.



Weird, I thought the opposite. The zs1 has a bloated, airy and slightly uncontrolled bass when compared to the tight punch of the zircons and even ed10's. I can hear the extension of the bass hump go pretty well into the mid bass on the zs1's unless that's supposed to settle with some breaking in.. I feel the zircons are definitely a bit more true to the bass in any songs I've listened to so far, but that's just to my ear.
Zs1 makes for some awesome bass in action games/movies though, not so much music wise though.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

fallrsk said:


> Weird, I thought the opposite. The zs1 has a bloated, airy and slightly uncontrolled bass when compared to the tight punch of the zircons and even ed10's. I can hear the extension of the bass hump go pretty well into the mid bass on the zs1's unless that's supposed to settle with some breaking in.. I feel the zircons are definitely a bit more true to the bass in any songs I've listened to so far, but that's just to my ear.
> Zs1 makes for some awesome bass in action games/movies though, not so much music wise though.


 
 From my experience with both, Zircon has fully extended bass response which doesn't sound muddy, unlike ZS1 which has less sub-bass and much more mid-bass, it's all concentrated to the mid-bass, makes the whole sound more muddy. Maybe Zircon's mids are less loud than the lows and highs, but they are quite precise, and on the sound quality spectrum, they make it to the top. ZS1's sound quite unnatural and claustrophobic.


----------



## CADCAM

fallrsk said:


> Weird, I thought the opposite. The zs1 has a bloated, airy and slightly uncontrolled bass when compared to the tight punch of the zircons and even ed10's. I can hear the extension of the bass hump go pretty well into the mid bass on the zs1's unless that's supposed to settle with some breaking in.. I feel the zircons are definitely a bit more true to the bass in any songs I've listened to so far, but that's just to my ear.
> Zs1 makes for some awesome bass in action games/movies though, not so much music wise though.


 
 Total opposite for me. The ZS1 was almost a little too lean in the lows, mids seemed ok but I need a real listen. When bass did kick in it was pretty tight though, no boom or sloppy overhang. I did find the ZS1 needs a little more juice than the others...had to bump up the gain on the Capella amp and also adjust the damping which has a direct affect on the lows. 
  
 Zircons on the other hand are a little too aggressive for me with bass on some material, metal sounded good but other music suffered.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Just got my ZS1 in last nite and took a quick listen...sounded good a little disjointed...*reminded me of a satellite\sub system at times*. I'm really iffy on that memory wire. I have them burning in and will take another listen after work but they sounded pretty good for the 13 bucks I paid. Got some spiral dots in too so I can experiment.


 
  
 I felt the exact same way when I first heard them. Quite unique amongst iems I'd say. Not the most realistic thing in the world, but a heck of a lot of fun. They get better with LOTS of burn in. 
  


igor eisberg said:


> ZS1 which has* less sub-bass and much more mid-bass*, it's all concentrated to the mid-bass, makes the whole sound more muddy.


 
  
 I agree they have a healthy amount of mid-bass, but their sub-bass is insane. It never ends. Messing around with bass sweep tests you can easily feel the bass kick in well before you hear it. The ZS1 rumbles like nothing else in my collection.


----------



## Podster

out7p said:


> Hi guys I'm new to looking at KZ iems. Which models are widely regarded as the best quality/favourites?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Out7, not sure how much you have to spend but for me in the KZ line I have loved from the start and to this day the ED9's which come with two filter options but for clarity and detail the ED9 is still the one to beat for me but then again if you read these threads and even as of the last few post you can clearly see we all hear them just a little differently. My suggestion to get three totally different sounding signatures I would go with ED9's, ATE's and ZS1's (This is based on my hearing) as you may have others that suggest ED3 "ACME", HDS1's and ZN1's but shopped right either of these two combinations can be had in the $40-$50 range


----------



## Lifted Andreas

igor eisberg said:


> From my experience with both, Zircon has fully extended bass response which doesn't sound muddy, unlike ZS1 which has less sub-bass and much more mid-bass, it's all concentrated to the mid-bass, makes the whole sound more muddy. Maybe Zircon's mids are less loud than the lows and highs, but they are quite precise, and on the sound quality spectrum, they make it to the top. ZS1's sound quite unnatural and claustrophobic.



I am guessing you're not judging those zircons by the way they sound out of the box?


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Out7, not sure how much you have to spend but for me in the KZ line I have loved from the start and to this day the ED9's which come with two filter options but for clarity and detail the ED9 is still the one to beat for me but then again if you read these threads and even as of the last few post you can clearly see we all hear them just a little differently. My suggestion to get three totally different sounding signatures I would go with ED9's, ATE's and ZS1's (This is based on my hearing) as you may have others that suggest ED3 "ACME", HDS1's and ZN1's but shopped right either of these two combinations can be had in the $40-$50 range


 
 100% in agreement...the ED9\brass still surprises me at what it can do. The HDS1 is also very good but is somewhat similar to ED9 so the ATE may be a good choice.
 I just got the ZS1 so the jury is still out but great suggestions.


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> Total opposite for me. The ZS1 was almost a little too lean in the lows, mids seemed ok but I need a real listen. When bass did kick in it was pretty tight though, no boom or sloppy overhang. I did find the ZS1 needs a little more juice than the others...had to bump up the gain on the Capella amp and also adjust the damping which has a direct affect on the lows.
> 
> Zircons on the other hand are a little too aggressive for me with bass on some material, metal sounded good but other music suffered.



This is pretty close to my experiance with the Zs. They are bassy, but I thought it was pretty tight. It runs up and colors the mids but doesn't really bleed into them. I think it is more a matter of quality control on the seperate bits and pieces.
They had these drivers and housing designed initially for the Zn. Everything on the Zn took place in the EQ/Amp. With the Zs they fill the empty cavity ( which was desigmed to be empty) with a cross over and wires, change the venting and you can understand why on assymbly there may be placement issues and sonic differences.


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> This is pretty close to my experiance with the Zs. They are bassy, but I thought it was pretty tight. It runs up and colors the mids but doesn't really bleed into them. I think it is more a matter of quality control on the seperate bits and pieces.
> They had these drivers and housing designed initially for the Zn. Everything on the Zn took place in the EQ/Amp. With the Zs they fill the empty cavity ( which was desigmed to be empty) with a cross over and wires, change the venting and you can understand why on assymbly there may be placement issues and sonic differences.


 

 OK I'll play
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The ZS's are configured to give excellent bass almost to the point of over shadowing the lower mids and removing just a little sparkle from the top but those engineers were in an extreme hurry to make a non EQ'd ZN1. To me the ZN1 is almost dead and lifeless in passive mode and they are a very sweet sounding iem when the amp is engaged but the cable lengths and amp location in those cable runs was it's downfall as far as portable/transportable iem's go. The alternative is the ZS1's but they really require a solid amp on top of customized EQ on your DAP to get their true potential as well as close to the ZN1 amp on sound. This is just my old ears but exactly how I hear these two iem's. I know we are talking bass/bass leading here but I refuse to talk Zircon's in the KZ thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bah Ha Ha HA
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In all honesty if they had designed the amp box on the ZN1's close to the DAP plug where you could just strap the amp to your DAP the ZN1's would have given a lot of iem's at three and four times their price a solid run for their money! Once again this is just MHO


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> OK I'll play:bigsmile_face: The ZS's are configured to give excellent bass almost to the point of over shadowing the lower mids and removing just a little sparkle from the top but those engineers were in an extreme hurry to make a non EQ'd ZN1. To me the ZN1 is almost dead and lifeless in passive mode and they are a very sweet sounding iem when the amp is engaged but the cable lengths and amp location in those cable runs was it's downfall as far as portable/transportable iem's go. The alternative is the ZS1's but they really require a solid amp on top of customized EQ on your DAP to get their true potential as well as close to the ZN1 amp on sound. This is just my old ears but exactly how I hear these two iem's. I know we are talking bass/bass leading here but I refuse to talk Zircon's in the KZ thread:blink: Bah Ha Ha HA:rolleyes:
> 
> In all honesty if they had designed the amp box on the ZN1's close to the DAP plug where you could just strap the amp to your DAP the ZN1's would have given a lot of iem's at three and four times their price a solid run for their money! Once again this is just MHO:wink_face:



Now there you go Podster, bottom line is you need to drive them with an amp and push the sound signature around with an EQ ( yep old school but so am I). Which is probably way the initial incarnation (Zn1) had and Amp/Eq I will say though that the Zn1's don't quite need any where near the EQing th Zs does. A click or two plus or minus and there you and still room to play eith the EQ. I imagine when they designed the drivers they didn't worry about efficiency as they were disign around the amp/eq an honestly even though you can run the Zn's passive I don't thnk they were meant to ever run that way. After all the sounds brilliant when powered.
Oh yes the EQ/MP placement was shall we say "ill concieved", possibly it looked good on paper, hard for active use. That said someday I'll recable them. As dar as giving the more expensive IEMs a run for their money they defintely do. They are at 95% of my Havi B3p1 and probably 90% of the Puro iem500 ( I still prefer the Havi sig) so yea it's definatly a next level runner


----------



## Niyologist

My ATE-S shipped out yesterday.


----------



## 1clearhead

KZ has now 3 versions of the KZ-ED3's: the KZ-ED3 originals, KZ-ED3 Youth Version, and now the KZ-ED3 S3, which is to me by far the best in its' class. The *KZ-S3*, as it is named, has excellent soundstage with great texture providing crisp highs, luscious mids and a quick, clean, and accurate bass response that is very hard to beat. I've burned them well over 100 hours and are good for some serious monitoring at home. Right now, I'm enjoying them so much, they are my to and from work travel buddies. And finally, the wires are actually different! A relief from the usual rubbery wires that many here tend to complain about with little to no microphonics.
  
 Check out the *KZ-S3* at the links below.....
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-earphones-in-ear-bass-earphones-Rock-and-roll-tide-headphones-metal-mobile-phone-hifi/32541160753.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.2.BXu1Nf&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_10
  
 They cost "dirt cheap" here in China.....!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.153.6plHx7&id=522205167561&ns=1&abbucket=17


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> KZ has now 3 versions of the KZ-ED3's: the KZ-ED3 originals, KZ-ED3 Youth Version, and now the KZ-ED3 S3, which is to me by far the best in its' class. The *KZ-S3*, as it is named, has excellent soundstage with great texture providing crisp highs, luscious mids and a quick, clean, and accurate bass response that is very hard to beat. I've burned them well over 100 hours and are good for some serious monitoring at home. Right now, I'm enjoying them so much, they are my to and from work travel buddies. And finally, the wires are actually different! A relief from the usual rubbery wires that many here tend to complain about with little to no microphonics.
> 
> Check out the *KZ-S3* at the links below.....
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-earphones-in-ear-bass-earphones-Rock-and-roll-tide-headphones-metal-mobile-phone-hifi/32541160753.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.2.BXu1Nf&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_10


 
 Seems they want to sell these in particularly to people in Alabama I mean they have it right in the description title "Rock and Roll Tide
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems they keep refining on a lot of their products at KZ which is a good thing for us


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> OK I'll play
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm getting everything that's being said here and the Beresford Capella & Bushmaster MK II combo I'm using is most likely overkill for a 13 dollar iem but the way I look at it is give the hp the best possible signal and it will perform its best for you. The only issue I have is being able to EQ them...I have an Audio Control Octave but it's not wired into the system...here we go.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead Thanks for the heads up on the S3. Me want!!


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I'm getting everything that's being said here and the Beresford Capella & Bushmaster MK II combo I'm using is most likely overkill for a 13 dollar iem but the way I look at it is give the hp the best possible signal and it will perform its best for you. The only issue I have is being able to EQ them...I have an Audio Control Octave but it's not wired into the system...here we go.


 

 Well as Scotty told Capt. Kirk, "I'm giving her all she's got"! The good news is if they still don't shine your only out $13


----------



## EISENbricher

1clearhead said:


> KZ has now 3 versions of the KZ-ED3's: the KZ-ED3 originals, KZ-ED3 Youth Version, and now the KZ-ED3 S3, which is to me by far the best in its' class. The *KZ-S3*, as it is named, has excellent soundstage with great texture providing crisp highs, luscious mids and a quick, clean, and accurate bass response that is very hard to beat. I've burned them well over 100 hours and are good for some serious monitoring at home. Right now, I'm enjoying them so much, they are my to and from work travel buddies. And finally, the wires are actually different! A relief from the usual rubbery wires that many here tend to complain about with little to no microphonics.
> 
> Check out the *KZ-S3* at the links below.....
> 
> ...


 
  
  
@Horton pls keep this thread informed about all the official KZ releases? That would really help.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just ordered a Pair of ED4 rather than ED3 or HDS1. Hope I made the correct decision, the Open Back Look Design, (they actually only have a small Bass port under the screen), and Specs look really good, along with a larger 9.6mm driver. PLUS, I'm a sucker for Oxygen free copper.....
  
 What's not to love about a $9 pair of earphones?
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## 1clearhead

The KZ-ED3 Original and Youth Version are good (or just okay for me), but the KZ-S3 are monitoring gems! The S3 can really dish out details and quick and accurate bass! They are a "must have" if you're into monitoring music!
  
 @TwinACStacks,
  
 Thanks for the heads-up on the ED4's! I'm very tempted to buy them! They are so new, there are zero feedbacks in taobao. When will you get them? .....I'll see if I'll grab me a pair, also.
  
 Here's a quick look at what 'Twin' is talking about.....
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.6iwfmI&id=524643771426&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-KZ-ED4-In-Ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-KZ-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super-Bass-Noise/32550824424.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.1.5MLpQC&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_10


----------



## Ruben123

1clearhead said:


> The KZ-ED3 Original and Youth Version are good (or just okay for me), but the KZ-S3 are monitoring gems! The S3 can really dish out details and quick and accurate bass! They are a "must have" if you're into monitoring music!
> 
> @TwinACStacks,
> 
> ...


 

 Better than ED9 and HDS1? And if so, how exactly?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

lifted andreas said:


> I am guessing you're not judging those zircons by the way they sound out of the box?


 
 I've been using Zircon as my daily drivers since I got them a few months ago. But as far as I remember they sounded just like they sound now.
 I hold the opinion that what burns in are not the earphones, it's your ears that get adjusted to the sound.


----------



## Podster

robvagyok said:


> been listening to the KZ ATE this weekend, still not impressed.
> real PITA to find a good seal, and also it seems placement affecting the fit, so I have to play around every time....
> they are also bulky for my taste (or I do have small ears)
> 
> ...


 

 My solution to the ATE fitment was/is over the ear triple flange
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My one word description of the ATE is clean!

  

  
 Man I need to get some sun
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## 1clearhead

ruben123 said:


> Better than ED9 and HDS1? And if so, how exactly?


 
  
 I don't have the HDS1, but hearing the ED9 and S3 side to side they are both worthy of monitoring some serious music.....is just a matter of taste preference. They are actually more similar then different.....ever so slightly either way. Slightly better resolution goes to the S3, while slightly better accuracy goes to the ED9. But, they are still worthy to do music right.


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> Just ordered a Pair of ED4 rather than ED3 or HDS1. Hope I made the correct decision, the Open Back Look Design, (they actually only have a small Bass port under the screen), and Specs look really good, along with a larger 9.6mm driver. PLUS, I'm a sucker for Oxygen free copper.....
> 
> What's not to love about a $9 pair of earphones?
> 
> ...


 

 As I was browsing the washing machine manual of my wife's washer under the agitator instructions it had a picture of Twin
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL I'm sure I'm going to love my new ED4's as well


----------



## LuparaX2

I today received the replacement for my defective ANVs. The seller said they send EDSEs, but I got EDR1s instead. While they seem to look identical does anyone know if they actually are the same sound wise. Was ED2 identicalt to EDSE aswell?
  
 Out of the box they are my favourites from the KZs I've got (Micro rings, ATE, ED10, HDS1). Pretty balanced, bass maybe a tad too boomy but good, mids are at first glance good too. What I like about them the most is that the highs aren't as dominant as on the other KZs, I'm pretty sensitive to highs.


----------



## Hardcor

Thanks for the heads up on HDS1 on Banggood, not familiar with that site.


----------



## TwinACStacks

igor eisberg said:


> I've been using Zircon as my daily drivers since I got them a few months ago. But as far as I remember they sounded just like they sound now.
> I hold the opinion that what burns in are not the earphones, it's your ears that get adjusted to the sound.


 






 Or maybe Your Ears have just adjusted to the Changes?
  








 TWIN


----------



## erudite

Guy's, which ED9's are the one's to get?
  
 i keep seeing people mention brass nozzles but when looking on aliexpress i can't find this particular model


----------



## Podster

erudite said:


> Guy's, which ED9's are the one's to get?
> 
> i keep seeing people mention brass nozzles but when looking on aliexpress i can't find this particular model


 
 I actually bought my first ones from AliEx Tuna.
 Then I bought this pair:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32322495771.html
 Then I recently bought these youth addition and can't hear or see any difference than my other two pair!
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-Youth-Version-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/32521828496.html


----------



## erudite

podster said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ED9-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Stereo/32322495771.html


 
  
  
 Thank you


----------



## sgl54

I've had good luck with BangGood over a couple years. Never any problems, ship times are average. Only odd thing is that if you have a problem they always want a picture before granting the return. Doesn't make a lot of sense but the return went fine.


----------



## HairyAss

Hello,
 I'm following this thread for few months now, i have bought the ED8, ATE, ANV, ED10, ED9.
 I'm not a pro, but to my ears they all sound good and some better.
 One day i found a really interesting pair of IEM on aliexpress, called DOBOLY Q18.
 And they cost.......wait........3.79 USD.
 They kick all of the KZ's ass's and for third the price.
 They're supposed to have JCV HA FX500's drivers.
 Anyway, they have the most amazing bass i have ever heard. I can not describe them because i don't have the vocabulary.
 Here is the link..http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wholesale-Original-DOBOLY-Q18-Transparent-Earphone-3-5mm-Studio-Headphones-Sports-Headest-For-iphone-6-5s/32389416608.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.9.i3QWxj&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_6_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_8v
 Read what the guy says in the comments.. that pretty much sums it up.
 You are welcome.
  
 Edit. Link was wrong


----------



## Podster

Nope, if Adam wears them I'm not interested


----------



## erudite

hairyass said:


> Hello,
> I'm following this thread for few months now, i have bought the ED8, ATE, ANV, ED10, ED9.
> I'm not a pro, but to my ears they all sound good and some better.
> One day i found a really interesting pair of IEM on aliexpress, called DOBOLY Q18.
> ...





Are you using them with stock tips?


----------



## dokkj

Any differences between the silver, and black ED9? Just the color or is there something different with the new black ones?


----------



## BigGearHunter

hairyass said:


> Hello,
> I'm following this thread for few months now, i have bought the ED8, ATE, ANV, ED10, ED9.
> I'm not a pro, but to my ears they all sound good and some better.
> One day i found a really interesting pair of IEM on aliexpress, called DOBOLY Q18.
> ...


 
 Wow, that's pretty cool! I just got my Xiaomi Hybrids in the mail and they are pretty much perfect, but for $4 I'm more than willing to see if they can be beaten. Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## lesp4ul

biggearhunter said:


> hairyass said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...




That doboly is already there for 1-2 years. I tried one of my friend's here in Indonesia, and yes it's warmish, bass heavy, but mid and high are still well pronounced.

I recommend you this,

Tuna-S6 sports headphones mobile phone earphones with microphone HIFI noise cancelling bass headsets music stereo headphones
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bova-E13-bass-headphones-noodles-ear-headphones-phone-headset-with-microphone-3-5MM-compatible-mobile-computer/1358467311.html
(from AliExpress Android)

Better fitting (for me and most of people) sound supposedly the same.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## dokkj

Ok guys, ordered the HDS1 and ED9. Will let you guys know...in a month, on how they turn out!


----------



## 1clearhead

The KZ-S3 just makes all my music sweeter.


----------



## ezekiel77

S3 sounds good! Does the official store carry it?


----------



## Turkleton

1clearhead said:


> KZ has now 3 versions of the KZ-ED3's: the KZ-ED3 originals, KZ-ED3 Youth Version, and now the KZ-ED3 S3, which is to me by far the best in its' class. The *KZ-S3*, as it is named, has excellent soundstage with great texture providing crisp highs, luscious mids and a quick, clean, and accurate bass response that is very hard to beat. I've burned them well over 100 hours and are good for some serious monitoring at home. Right now, I'm enjoying them so much, they are my to and from work travel buddies. And finally, the wires are actually different! A relief from the usual rubbery wires that many here tend to complain about with little to no microphonics.
> 
> Check out the *KZ-S3* at the links below.....
> 
> ...


 
 Holy cheapness... 4.66 on Taobao, lowest on AliExpress i could find was 13!!!
  
 Taobao doesnt ship out of China, right?


----------



## EISENbricher

turkleton said:


> Holy cheapness... 4.66 on Taobao, lowest on AliExpress i could find was 13!!!
> 
> Taobao doesnt ship out of China, right?


 
 Nope, but try MisterTao for that. I use if frequently and their service is cool.


----------



## peter123

I've had those Doloby's for quite some time and didn't feel that they could competet with the KZ offerings at all so they're in a drawer somewhere, YMMV (obviously).


----------



## DaveLT

lesp4ul said:


> That doboly is already there for 1-2 years. I tried one of my friend's here in Indonesia, and yes it's warmish, bass heavy, but mid and high are still well pronounced.
> 
> I recommend you this,
> 
> ...




I think I saw them before ... On taobao. Gotta buy 2-3 of the cheap ones and 1 of the "tuna" ones which is actually an cosonic w1


----------



## robvagyok

is there anyone from you guys who has ALL the KZ's out there? 
 I mean they're all cheap, somebody must have them all


----------



## HairyAss

erudite said:


> Are you using them with stock tips?


 
 Which one? the DOBOLY, yes, stock. The stock tips are perfect.
 For the KZ's i use different tips.


----------



## Trapok

robvagyok said:


> is there anyone from you guys who has ALL the KZ's out there?
> I mean they're all cheap, somebody must have them all


not all but at least 6 models for me


----------



## EISENbricher

robvagyok said:


> is there anyone from you guys who has ALL the KZ's out there?
> I mean they're all cheap, somebody must have them all


 
 Not all but quite a lot... have 10 models.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I've got a few; LPS, EDse, ED3, ED3c, ED9, ED10, R3, DS, ANV, ATE, HDS1, Micro Ring, ZS1
  
 ED4 and ED8 are on the way.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Imho buying KZ is like having a favorite magazine. Every month or two a new edition comes out and we buy it off the shelves faster than you can say "Wait, another KZ?" 

The cycle has continued for the last two years now. I personally think it's awesome and feeds my addiction to regularly have a new pair of headphones, and without breaking the bank. 

And as we all know, KZ just keeps on getting better and better.


----------



## DaveLT

I'm buying the S3. HDS2 and ATES when 12/12 comes


----------



## OliverBB

Right now I am trying to decide between the KZ-ED9 (with the nozzles) and the KZ-ED Special Edition.
  
  
 This is the special edition I am referring to-http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Metal-earphone-Noise-noise-reduction-Ear-Headphones/1668617_32267396565.html
  
  
  
 Can anyone who has both compare the 2? thanks!


----------



## Hisoundfi

oliverbb said:


> Right now I am trying to decide between the KZ-ED9 (with the nozzles) and the KZ-ED Special Edition.
> 
> 
> This is the special edition I am referring to-http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Metal-earphone-Noise-noise-reduction-Ear-Headphones/1668617_32267396565.html
> ...


The EDSE is great, don't get me wrong, but the ED9 is just flat out better. Interchangeable tuning filters, and sound quality that is as good or better than the EDSE with either filter imho. 

Hope this helps


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> The EDSE is great, don't get me wrong, but the ED9 is just flat out better. Interchangeable tuning filters, and sound quality that is as good or better than the EDSE with either filter imho.
> 
> Hope this helps




+1

ED9 is the best intro to KZ imo. Those interchangeable filters seal the deal.


----------



## leobigfield

Has anyone listened to the HDS2?


----------



## joemama

leobigfield said:


> Has anyone listened to the HDS2?


 

 Not yet. Should get it soon (hopefully).


----------



## Niyologist

My ATE-S is going through Customs. So I should have it in a few days.


----------



## OliverBB

hisoundfi said:


> The EDSE is great, don't get me wrong, but the ED9 is just flat out better. Interchangeable tuning filters, and sound quality that is as good or better than the EDSE with either filter imho.
> 
> Hope this helps


 
 That does help thanks!


----------



## TwinACStacks

hisoundfi said:


> The EDSE is great, don't get me wrong, but the ED9 is just flat out better. Interchangeable tuning filters, and sound quality that is as good or better than the EDSE with either filter imho.
> 
> Hope this helps


 






 My problem with the ED9 is that it is simply too Treble Heavy for me personally, no matter which nozzle I use. It *could *be entirely mental as I know the specs are well over 40k. They give me a Headache in a short time. It's the reason I gave My Titans to my oldest Daughter when she was here for Thanksgiving a few Days ago.
  
 For me, the Best (My favorite KZ), is the EDSE. It would be the ANV but their design is ungodly uncomfortable in my ears.
  








 TWIN


----------



## DaveLT

twinacstacks said:


> My problem with the ED9 is that it is simply too Treble Heavy for me personally, no matter which nozzle I use. It *could *be entirely mental as I know the specs are well over 40k. They give me a Headache in a short time. It's the reason I gave My Titans to my oldest Daughter when she was here for Thanksgiving a few Days ago.
> 
> For me, the Best (My favorite KZ), is the EDSE. It would be the ANV but their design is ungodly uncomfortable in my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 Ironically the HZSound HZ2M with it's similar shape feels just right in my ears. It's as if it's customized to fit my ears.
  
 Apart from the left side going too deep into my left ear. My ears are asymmetrical.


----------



## CADCAM

twinacstacks said:


> My problem with the ED9 is that it is simply too Treble Heavy for me personally, no matter which nozzle I use. It *could *be entirely mental as I know the specs are well over 40k. They give me a Headache in a short time. It's the reason I gave My Titans to my oldest Daughter when she was here for Thanksgiving a few Days ago.
> 
> For me, the Best (My favorite KZ), is the EDSE. It would be the ANV but their design is ungodly uncomfortable in my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 I only use the brass nozzles with my ED9 and I'm sure your aware of the tiny paper filter on the I.D. of the nozzle that for me has to be in place. I also use a small amount of air filter foam inside each nozzle...I kept adding material or subtracting it until I hit my sweet spot. The ED9 is my favorite KZ for the detail and presentation it delivers at a crazy low price. I do have the EDSE (red driver screens) and they are great but I seem to only use them at the gym. I'll have to try them again in my setup in the house. Never got to try the ANV because when I ordered them the seller sent CM9's...which were not for me.


----------



## dokkj

Lol when did they announce the HDS2? Now I feel like I should've waited instead of buying the HDS1 last night.


----------



## CADCAM

I wouldn't worry too much the HDS1 is excellent for the small price. IMO
 I bought 3 sets...


----------



## Lifted Andreas

niyologist said:


> My ATE-S is going through Customs. So I should have it in a few days.




Looking forward to your view on those!


----------



## sgl54

oliverbb said:


> Right now I am trying to decide between the KZ-ED9 (with the nozzles) and the KZ-ED Special Edition.
> 
> 
> This is the special edition I am referring to-http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/kz-ed-Special-Edition-Metal-earphone-Noise-noise-reduction-Ear-Headphones/1668617_32267396565.html
> ...



I have both and the Edse are very nice for a micro driver one of the best and a wonderfully small form factor. The Ed9 though are better than the Edse forget tuneability once it's done ( matte brass or sparkly gold) it's done but assures you'll get a sound signature you'll like. They simply hit all the marks with the ED9 driver, it goes deeper and is brighter then the Edse. Taking nothing away from the Edse the 9 just does a bit better job. Put it this way I bought a pair of the Ed9's for one of my sons and an Edse for his girl friend ( everyone needs something fun in their Christmas stocking) so honestly both are good . But I still prefer the 9's


----------



## Podster

+1


----------



## kaiteck

Hi guys i bought kz ate with mic in aliexpress, but seller sent no mic, what am i suppose to do now? Should i open dispute?


----------



## DaveLT

Open a dispute.


----------



## 1clearhead

ezekiel77 said:


> S3 sounds good! Does the official store carry it?


 
  
 I don't know.....never bothered checking. I just go with the cheapest and legit seller.


turkleton said:


> Holy cheapness... 4.66 on Taobao, lowest on AliExpress i could find was 13!!!
> 
> Taobao doesnt ship out of China, right?


 
  
 I know! There's quite a gap their! .....I think there's is taobao worldwide shipping website, but you have to make sure the seller speaks English and delivers to your country.


----------



## 1clearhead

All I have to say is that the *KZ-S3* has everything I've always long for in an IEM, which is.....
  
  
 The BIG 3 T's!
  
*Texture*, *Tight*, and *Transparent*!
  
  
 .....and they are flat-out the cheapest of the ED3's!


----------



## todor96

I received the ATE-s. I find them a little bass heavy and muddy, with pronounciated low mids,a little bit high end lacking. Am I the only on or are mine somewhat different?


----------



## gustav29

Let me just say Holy Crap! I've been completely blown away by the ED9.  I've been monitoring this thread for about a month, and ordered from Aliexpress a few weeks ago.  Ordered the ED9 and the EDSE and they came today.  Now for the past 4 years I've using a pair of Etymotic HF2s, but the cable broke a few weeks ago. While I did order a replacement set from Etymotic, I decided to get the KZs as well. I didn't think the KZs could compare to the $120 HF2s, but I gotta say, they sound pretty darn great!  I first started with the ED9 and I think that set is actually a little closer to the sound signature of the HF2s where the bass isn't as prominent like it is in the EDSE. For just spending $20 bucks on both sets, I think I'm a convert to the KZ club.


----------



## Niyologist

todor96 said:


> I received the ATE-s. I find them a little bass heavy and muddy, with pronounciated low mids,a little bit high end lacking. Am I the only on or are mine somewhat different?




Check the ear tips. Ear tips can make or break the Sound Signature.


----------



## DaveLT

Just got my ZS1. ED10 isn't in the freaking package -_-
  
 Anyway, these truly are fantastic bass cannons. Lacks detail as the midbass creeps into the mids making it sound rather messy. It really rattles my skull that said so if I'm looking for a bass retreat these are my IEMs.
  
 Tho, I will burn it in for a few days and see how it goes.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Just got my ZS1. ED10 isn't in the freaking package -_-
> 
> Anyway, these truly are fantastic bass cannons. Lacks detail as the midbass creeps into the mids making it sound rather messy. It really rattles my skull that said so if I'm looking for a bass retreat these are my IEMs.
> 
> Tho, I will burn it in for a few days and see how it goes.


 
  
 They get better. If you have any, swap out for wide bore tips. No idea why everyone insists on including small bore tips with bassy earphones. Never suits them. They actually have have pretty good treble and mids, they're just completely overshadowed by DAT BASS


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> They get better. If you have any, swap out for wide bore tips. No idea why everyone insists on including small bore tips with bassy earphones. Never suits them. They actually have have pretty good treble and mids, they're just completely overshadowed by DAT BASS


 
 Yes it actually has good treble and mids but it's completely overshadowed by lord BASS.
 I am using wide bore KZ foam tips. Fits better sounds better than the KZ whirlwinds on it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Yes it actually has good treble and mids but it's completely overshadowed by lord BASS.
> I am using wide bore KZ foam tips. Fits better sounds better than the KZ whirlwinds on it.


 
  
 "Lord Bass". That is the perfect nickname for the ZS1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mind if I use that for my review?


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> "Lord Bass". That is the perfect nickname for the ZS1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Go ahead! I was actually thinking of a nickname to coin the ZS1 and lord bass came about.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Go ahead! I was actually thinking of a nickname to coin the ZS1 and lord bass came about.


 
  
 Awesome,thanks  You'll receive full credit of course. That name cracks me up


----------



## Igor Eisberg

b9scrambler said:


> Awesome,thanks  You'll receive full credit of course. That name cracks me up


 

 A credit for using 2 common words? C'mon man I hope you're joking XD


----------



## dbhai

@1clearhead You got KZ-ED3 S3 or KZ-S3, and heard great about them, 

How to differentiate between S3 and Youth Edition ?


----------



## CADCAM

todor96 said:


> I received the ATE-s. I find them a little bass heavy and muddy, with pronounciated low mids,a little bit high end lacking. Am I the only on or are mine somewhat different?


 
 What you using to run them? Amp & DAC? Source equipment...


----------



## todor96

cadcam said:


> What you using to run them? Amp & DAC? Source equipment...



 

I'm running them through the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2.


----------



## todor96

niyologist said:


> Check the ear tips. Ear tips can make or break the Sound Signature.


 
 I tried all I've got, makes some difference of course, but I think it is the sound signature of the headphones.


----------



## DaveLT

dbhai said:


> @1clearhead You got KZ-ED3 S3 or KZ-S3, and heard great about them,
> 
> How to differentiate between S3 and Youth Edition ?


 
  
 YEs are blue or red. S3s are ... "The Acme" but in the ED3 normal color codes.


----------



## zzhead

eisenbricher said:


> Nope, but try MisterTao for that. I use if frequently and their service is cool.



 



Hi,
just registered with Mr Bao.
Switched page to English.
Still cannot make out the final cost and
the "mechanics" of placing an order.
Difficult to know if it is worth the effort in price terms
or if it works out roughly the same as ali and thus save the hassle.
Please give me a detailed survival guide on how to order.

Thank you


----------



## zzhead

zzhead said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, but try MisterTao for that. I use if frequently and their service is cool.
> ...


----------



## peter123

zzhead said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, but try MisterTao for that. I use if frequently and their service is cool.
> ...




When using mistertaobao you pay first the price +domestic shipping (usually below $2 for IEM's). When the package arrives at their warehouse you get a message to pay handling fee and international shipping.

To find out the total price including shipping and handling you use the "Shipping calculator" or whatever it's called. For IEM's I usually put in the weight 200g and most of the time it comes out correct.

Hope this helps.


----------



## 1clearhead

dbhai said:


> @1clearhead You got KZ-ED3 S3 or KZ-S3, and heard great about them,
> 
> How to differentiate between S3 and Youth Edition ?


 
  
 KZ decided to make three different versions of the KZ-ED3:
  
 1. KZ-ED3 (original)
  
 2. KZ-ED3 "Youth Version"
  
 3. KZ-S3 (which is KZ-ED3 in "Silver Edition" with a choice of black or blue wires)
  
 All three carry different sound signatures with the KZ-S3 surprisingly sounding the most adequate for monitoring purposes.


----------



## zzhead

peter123 said:


> When using mistertaobao you pay first the price +domestic shipping (usually below $2 for IEM's). When the package arrives at their warehouse you get a message to pay handling fee and international shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks for the answer,
From a quick calculation we derive the same results in terms of price value. 
The day a Chinese trader will lose/deviate a penny, Armageddon will strike the end of the world...LOL
Therefore sticking with ali saves time and hassle.
Thnx again


----------



## peter123

zzhead said:


> peter123 said:
> 
> 
> > When using mistertaobao you pay first the price +domestic shipping (usually below $2 for IEM's). When the package arrives at their warehouse you get a message to pay handling fee and international shipping.
> ...




No worries  Lol! Yes most of the time it works out the same and AE is indeed easier to deal with and you get the buyer protection on top. Only time I really use Mister Taobao is when there's a really good deal or the item isn't available on AE.


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> A credit for using 2 common words? C'mon man I hope you're joking XD




I've never been more serious in my life....about anything...ever 0_0 <-- that's my serious face btw


----------



## EISENbricher

gustav29 said:


> Let me just say Holy Crap! I've been completely blown away by the ED9.  I've been monitoring this thread for about a month, and ordered from Aliexpress a few weeks ago.  Ordered the ED9 and the EDSE and they came today.  Now for the past 4 years I've using a pair of Etymotic HF2s, but the cable broke a few weeks ago. While I did order a replacement set from Etymotic, I decided to get the KZs as well. I didn't think the KZs could compare to the $120 HF2s, but I gotta say, they sound pretty darn great!  I first started with the ED9 and I think that set is actually a little closer to the sound signature of the HF2s where the bass isn't as prominent like it is in the EDSE. For just spending $20 bucks on both sets, I think I'm a convert to the KZ club.


welcome here. That's the magic of kz! All sound sigs are available at prices hovering about $10, all come with good quality. Also you'll get to cherish new releases every month (like buying a magazine, as someone rightly said). That's my kz for me


----------



## Chief Stringer

my ZS1's arrived today, its safe to say i will not be buying the ATE-S (however nice they look) given that they share the same memory wire, its not good, as far as sound goes these things when connected to my laptop are absolute bass cannons, they have extremely high levels of bass and defiantly wont be for everyone around here, but i enjoy the fun sound, its not just boosted bass has great impact too, amazing what i got for £7.66


----------



## B9Scrambler

chief stringer said:


> my ZS1's arrived today, its safe to say i will not be buying the ATE-S (however nice they look) given that they share the same memory wire, its not good, as far as sound goes these things when connected to my laptop are absolute bass cannons, they have extremely high levels of bass and defiantly wont be for everyone around here, but i enjoy the fun sound, its not just boosted bass has great impact too, amazing what i got for £7.66




The memory wire is a bit of a misstep, but once you get it set in a good shape it's manageable. They definitely aren't for everyone, but they're still a great iem and especially for the price you got them at.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Anyone besides MOI, bit on this KZ ED4 yet? The wait is going to kill me, they haven't been "Accepted" yet By China Post.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-KZ-ED4-In-Ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-KZ-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super-Bass-Noise/32550824424.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.3.KNppaE&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7_79_78_77_80_61,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_10
  
  
 Personally I can't wait for "The Horror Explosive Power"....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Chief Stringer

b9scrambler said:


> The memory wire is a bit of a misstep, but once you get it set in a good shape it's manageable. They definitely aren't for everyone, but they're still a great iem and especially for the price you got them at.


 

 Yeah im sure ill figure it out, for the record i get a good seal with them with the tips that came installed, better than the ATE with foam tips, i also got the mic version which feels well built, i cant believe how powerful the bass is on them, prefer my mdr-v55s for general listening (also bass heavy), but the bass on the ZS1 is not just boosted like the v55s it actually has good extension, makes me wonder what KZ may be bringing out in the future, originally came here to read reviews on the ED9s and now i have 4 different kz pairs lol, might do a comparison one day.


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> The memory wire is a bit of a misstep, but once you get it set in a good shape it's manageable. They definitely aren't for everyone, but they're still a great iem and especially for the price you got them at.


 
 I seem to get better detail out of the bigger bore foam tips from KZ (3 sets in a pack).
  
 These are bass head dreams but it's true that the memory wire is a PITA at first once it's set all is great. Even as someone who prefers bright sound sig, I love the ZS1. I have a friend who doesn't like bright or bass. Oddball.


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> I seem to get better detail out of the bigger bore foam tips from KZ (3 sets in a pack).
> 
> These are bass head dreams but it's true that the memory wire is a PITA at first once it's set all is great. Even as someone who prefers bright sound sig, I love the ZS1. I have a friend who doesn't like bright or bass. Oddball.



Big bores? Wow, I'm impressed, no wonder your avater looks striken, she's got a headache! Actualy you pount out how much potential the Zs's have sure they can be pita to get fit right but there alot of tunable sound there.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Yup, the ZS1 is totally badarse. Just need to give them some time, find the right tips, and enjoy. Love these things!


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> The memory wire is a bit of a misstep, but once you get it set in a good shape it's manageable. They definitely aren't for everyone, but they're still a great iem and especially for the price you got them at.



Mistep? You betcha. Your kind to a fault.. Nice avatar by the way.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> Mistep? You betcha. *You're kind to a fault*.. Nice avatar by the way.


 
 I'm a Canadian *shrug* Thanks! I like the picture too.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> I'm a Canadian *shrug* Thanks! I like the picture too.



I knew that ( the Canadian bit) it's the name "B9Scrambler I haven't figured. It always brings to mind a couple things first a Jeep ( soft top with unique trim set) but that was Cj7 so second it makes me think of motorcycles Noton amd Kawasaki ( as with the jeep early versions) so I'm thinking I haven't a clue.


----------



## leasedeb

532 pages.. Do anyone have a guide of all the KZ products and how they compare to other in same price range? Thank you


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> I knew that ( the Canadian bit) it's the name "B9Scrambler I haven't figured. It always brings to mind a couple things first a Jeep ( soft top with unique trim set) but that was Cj7 so second it makes me think of motorcycles Noton amd Kawasaki ( as with the jeep early versions) so I'm thinking I haven't a clue.




Subaru B9 Scrambler concept car. Car was kinda meh. Hybrid two seat sports car along the lines of a Miata. Good name though.


----------



## DaveLT

sgl54 said:


> Big bores? Wow, I'm impressed, no wonder your avater looks striken, she's got a headache! Actualy you pount out how much potential the Zs's have sure they can be pita to get fit right but there alot of tunable sound there.




Lol! No really I am not a basshead but if I need a bass retreat these will do me well.

It is my face when I first heard the IEM, later it was glee because these are really like having subwoofers being strapped to your head.
Eli is also surprised how much bass it has so that (my avatar is ayase eli)


----------



## kaiteck

leasedeb said:


> 532 pages.. Do anyone have a guide of all the KZ products and how they compare to other in same price range? Thank you




Guide of all kz products..? Nah lol Kz has too many of them, but the main iems they sell are currently kz ate, ed9, zs1.
kz ate - classical, vocals
zs1 - Bass
i forgot about ed9.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Subaru B9 Scrambler concept car. Car was kinda meh. Hybrid two seat sports car along the lines of a Miata. Good name though.



Well glad I wasn't completly out in left field, just in the parking lot. It is a great name I just don't remember it. I actually really like the two seat roadsters. The Miata looks great but ended up with the little BMW Z3 instead. Sometimes meh works, there still fun but they get less notice when you drive them shall we say spiritedly.


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> Lol! No really I am not a basshead but if I need a bass retreat these will do me well.
> 
> It is my face when I first heard the IEM, later it was glee because these are really like having subwoofers being strapped to your head.
> Eli is also surprised how much bass it has so that (my avatar is ayase eli)



It's definately a fun signature somehow I missed the fact ayase eli was surprised, I still can't figure out women!


----------



## sgl54

leasedeb said:


> 532 pages.. Do anyone have a guide of all the KZ products and how they compare to other in same price range? Thank you



I haven't heard of anyone dojng that ( guide) but enough people here have been through most the Kz incarnations if you give us an idea of what you listen to. Someone one will give you an idea of what fits that's currently availble and relative ptice. It's a friendly forum and pretty knowledgable. Keep in mind Kz discontinues earky earphones and skmetjmes not sk early and moves on to something new and generally better.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Subaru B9 Scrambler concept car. Car was kinda meh. Hybrid two seat sports car along the lines of a Miata. Good name though.


Subaru B9 Scrambler concept car. Car was kinda meh. Hybrid two seat sports car along the lines of a Miata. Good name though.[/quote]
Ok, checked out your name sake. The prototype , looks alright, to much chrome highlight. So yeah meh. But as a base for a production car it could turn out good.No Hydrodynamicbred motor though I'm thinking wrx and up. It looks like a cross from an early Corvette and the bmw Z3/Z8 more 8 than 3. But still givin I bought the Z3 it probably looks pretty good to me 
As you can see mine is white which softens the lines then there's roll bars and the spoiler and suspension and… It's as bad as earpones!


----------



## EISENbricher

Help!!
  
 Pulled out red ED8m from storage after a long time. Was kept inside a zipped pouch. The cable has some oily layer all over it and it smells really bad, like burning plastic. No change in appearance though. I've now wiped the cable clean with tissue but it still smells a little. 

 What is this and what should I do to avoid this?


----------



## DaveLT

eisenbricher said:


> Help!!
> 
> 
> Pulled out red ED8m from storage after a long time. Was kept inside a zipped pouch. The cable has some oily layer all over it and it smells really bad, like burning plastic. No change in appearance though. I've now wiped the cable clean with tissue but it still smells a little.
> ...




It's rubber right? That's rubber reacting with moisture. You should keep it in a air tight box and put dessicant bags in it.


----------



## nhlean96

I've read some "hype" or whatever about KZ S3, which are sold about $5 on taobao.com. A guy said that the S3 is best for monitoring meaning they have best resolution among those inear of KZ. Can you guys confirm the "hype" coz I'm considering between HDS1 and S3, or I'll give both of them a try


----------



## dbhai

davelt said:


> YEs are blue or red. S3s are ... "The Acme" but in the ED3 normal color codes.


 
  
  


1clearhead said:


> KZ decided to make three different versions of the KZ-ED3:
> 
> 1. KZ-ED3 (original)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you so much for clearing out the confusion, I am really wanting to get S3 now, might have to take MisterTao route for getting it shipped to India, unless AliExpress comes with some decent pricing


----------



## EISENbricher

davelt said:


> It's rubber right? That's rubber reacting with moisture. You should keep it in a air tight box and put dessicant bags in it.


 
 I see... indeed I live in a humid place. Thanks I'll do that asap.


----------



## Turkleton

nhlean96 said:


> I've read some "hype" or whatever about KZ S3, which are sold about $5 on taobao.com. A guy said that the S3 is best for monitoring meaning they have best resolution among those inear of KZ. Can you guys confirm the "hype" coz I'm considering between HDS1 and S3, or I'll give both of them a try




Yeah, I'm kinda curious myself.. I saw some feedback on Aliexpress(strangely enough it was for kz hds2) but the person posted pics of kz s3 - it came in a QKZ case instead of the normal shield-shaped kz case.

m.aliexpress.com/getSiteProductEvaluation.htm?productId=32284784718&page=1

I could just be paranoid and it's just QKZ wrapping a KZ product in their own packaging, but I'd rather hear some impressions before I pull the trigger on those babies


----------



## DaveLT

turkleton said:


> Yeah, I'm kinda curious myself.. I saw some feedback on Aliexpress(strangely enough it was for kz hds2) but the person posted pics of kz s3 - it came in a QKZ case instead of the normal shield-shaped kz case.
> 
> m.aliexpress.com/getSiteProductEvaluation.htm?productId=32284784718&page=1
> 
> I could just be paranoid and it's just QKZ wrapping a KZ product in their own packaging, but I'd rather hear some impressions before I pull the trigger on those babies


 
 Perhaps the seller ran out of boxes? Suspicious tho ...


sgl54 said:


> It's definately a fun signature somehow I missed the fact ayase eli was surprised, I still can't figure out women!


 
 Stuff she sings :
  
  
 This is my go to song to test for clarity and vocals.
  
 Chaps. The ZS1 has a proper passive crossover.


----------



## fallrsk

twinacstacks said:


> Anyone besides MOI, bit on this KZ ED4 yet? The wait is going to kill me, they haven't been "Accepted" yet By China Post.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-KZ-ED4-In-Ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-KZ-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super-Bass-Noise/32550824424.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.3.KNppaE&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7_79_78_77_80_61,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_10
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same here! It feels like I'm waiting for an eternity for them to be posted. I'll probably have them in my hands by this Friday, so I'll let y'all know how it goes.. I just got the black hd598's so all my kz's are on hold lol!
  
 Also ordered the comply copies from KZ, being the big bored and normal bored versions all in black.. I'll give my impressions on those too. (The ones that actually have a true rubber canal)


----------



## xypex982

I have been enjoying my ZS1s for a week now. They put my shure se110, and my monoprice buds (PID:11616), into retirement. Thank you all for bringing together so much info on this brand.

Due to the stock tips not being a great fit I want to get some aliexpress comply's. Any suggestions on a specific seller? What version fits the ZS1, t100,200, or 400?


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> Perhaps the seller ran out of boxes? Suspicious tho ...
> Stuff she sings :
> 
> 
> ...



She does have a wonderful voice and definately pushes the vocals and upper end out. Yep the do have a proper passive cross over the case is just clear enough to see the bits, pieces and wires. But I'm still defending the Zn1's, the poor down trodden, over looked much maligned step sister ( Think Cinderella) of a Kz. Cause no one else will.


----------



## fallrsk

xypex982 said:


> I have been enjoying my ZS1s for a week now. They put my shure se110, and my monoprice buds (PID:11616), into retirement. Thank you all for bringing together so much info on this brand.
> 
> Due to the stock tips not being a great fit I want to get some aliexpress comply's. Any suggestions on a specific seller? What version fits the ZS1, t100,200, or 400?


 
 As for the comply knockoffs, the KZ ones look pretty promising (still waiting to receive them).
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4Pairs-8pcs-KZ-Noise-Isolating-Memory-Foam-C-sets-3mm-5mm-Comply-T100-T400-Ear-Tips/1825606_32419364287.html
 Teresa's got a great turn around time and hasn't disappointed me yet. The 5mm are the wide bores, which will fit the ZS1 (I believe that would be the 100 or 400, I don't know which is the biggest).


----------



## xypex982

Thank you, I'll be going with the t400 (biggest bore) in that link. 

I ordered these kz silicone whirlwinds out of curiosity: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3pcs-3-Size-In-Ear-Bud-Earphone-Covers-Headphones-Gel-Tip-Case-Replacement-Silicone-Earbuds-Ear/32366635375.html

I hope the 4mm bore core can fit the zs1. If not, ohh well I'll add them to my collection.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> She does have a wonderful voice and definately pushes the vocals and upper end out. Yep the do have a proper passive cross over the case is just clear enough to see the bits, pieces and wires. But I'm still defending the Zn1's, the poor down trodden, over looked much maligned step sister ( Think Cinderella) of a Kz. Cause no one else will.


 
  
 I would totally support the ZN1, but I don't have em yet  So for now, I'll just enjoy the badassery that is the ZS1 and their ridiculous bass


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> I would totally support the ZN1, but I don't have em yet  So for now, I'll just enjoy the badassery that is the ZS1 and their ridiculous bass


 
 You put em in 1st place ? :O


----------



## Chief Stringer

Listening to that with the ZS1s now getting an ear massage, i think i might use these things as pre night out / rave earphones, the bass really makes you wanna get going


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> You put em in 1st place ? :O


 
  
 The ZS1 is a crap ton of fun to listen to, but they definitely aren't the best KZ (although they are right up there as one of my favs). Out of the KZs I've tried, "best" would have to go to the HDS1. They do everything very well and for some reason are dirt cheap, even compared to other KZs. I was a little underwhelmed with them ootb, but they're really grown on me.
  
 Pretty sure the ANV, HDS1, Micro Ring and ZS1 are my favorites right now. Love the ED10 still, but those four meet my needs best. Have to completely rework my "KZ Shootout" since it's out of date and no longer accurately represents my current feelings of the KZ lineup.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> I would totally support the ZN1, but I don't have em yet  So for now, I'll just enjoy the badassery that is the ZS1 and their ridiculous bass



Excellent but all things considered instead of ' El Badass ridiculos supremo" it should be " Legendary" bass bacause as time passes they will speak of them ( Zs1's) in hushed tones as a reference for bass all future Kz's will be measured against! Well maybe not, but they have more natural bass than any other Kz I've ever listened to.


----------



## DaveLT

sgl54 said:


> She does have a wonderful voice and definately pushes the vocals and upper end out. Yep the do have a proper passive cross over the case is just clear enough to see the bits, pieces and wires. But I'm still defending the Zn1's, the poor down trodden, over looked much maligned step sister ( Think Cinderella) of a Kz. Cause no one else will.


 
 Yep. The ZN1 isn't cheap though.


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> Yep. The ZN1 isn't cheap though.


 
The cheapest I've seen is $28.00 but mostly the $31.00 to $35.00 range even on Amazon . For a Kz it still isn't cheap. But I tend to place them up in that $60.00 Havi range. For me they are in that catagory, although when they were $49.95 I just couldn't do it. I guess I'm just cheap!


----------



## DaveLT

sgl54 said:


> The cheapest I've seen is $28.00 but mostly the $31.00 to $35.00 range even on Amazon . For a Kz it still isn't cheap. But I tend to place them up in that $60.00 Havi range. For me they are in that catagory, although when they were $49.95 I just couldn't do it. I guess I'm just cheap!


 
 I'm sure you could find IEMs that sound better at that range. Anyone here have a Astrotec IEM?


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> I'm sure you could find IEMs that sound better at that range. Anyone here have a Astrotec IEM?



Well you could of course but the Zn's do work well especially with low poer sources with the amp/eq they preform well with tablets etc. On top of that they have those wonderful little buttons close at hand to taylor any audio clip into something listenable. Pod casts, audio books and marginal sound files that real are difficult to enjoy on less forgiving phones. They are a Kz I listen to more often than any other so for me they work.


----------



## DaveLT

sgl54 said:


> Well you could of course but the Zn's do work well especially with low poer sources with the amp/eq they preform well with tablets etc. On top of that they have those wonderful little buttons close at hand to taylor any audio clip into something listenable. Pod casts, audio books and marginal sound files that real are difficult to enjoy on less forgiving phones. They are a Kz I listen to more often than any other so for me they work.


 
 unfortunately the amp's placement is highly ill advised.
  
 I got my ATE in today, out of the box with the thin bore foam tips it sounds veiled and i cannot get a good fit with the large silicone tips either.
  
 So when I got home and slapped the wide bore small foam tips from KZ and BOOM. Great fit, sounds excellent.
  
 The whirlwinds if you're wondering does not work on the ATE. The whirlwinds will just get pushed down by your ear until the nozzle hits the ear wall. Still better than the thin bore foam tips though.


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> unfortunately the amp's placement is highly ill advised.
> 
> I got my ATE in today, out of the box with the thin bore foam tips it sounds veiled and i cannot get a good fit with the large silicone tips either.
> 
> ...



It took awhile before I found a way to wear them, clips times two. The ATE'S are they thw standard or the new "s" type? The older style do have that thenly veiled upper end I find even with wide bores. I believe I'm running tips that came with either my Havi's or OM hydrids. Your right about the Kz whirlwinds which is odd as I typically have good luck with them. I do find the ATE's very comfortable which I think is the the big draw for me. I haven't tried the with foamies, I've got some comply's as well as some other foamies floating around ( picked up a bunch of different tips trying to work out my Zs1's) I'll have to give them a try, thanks for the tip ( no pun intended).


----------



## DaveLT

sgl54 said:


> It took awhile before I found a way to wear them, clips times two. The ATE'S are they thw standard or the new "s" type? The older style do have that thenly veiled upper end I find even with wide bores. I believe I'm running tips that came with either my Havi's or OM hydrids. Your right about the Kz whirlwinds which is odd as I typically have good luck with them. I do find the ATE's very comfortable which I think is the the big draw for me. I haven't tried the with foamies, I've got some comply's as well as some other foamies floating around ( picked up a bunch of different tips trying to work out my Zs1's) I'll have to give them a try, thanks for the tip ( no pun intended).


 

  
 I've no idea if the ATE S has any changes or not but I'm hoping there is.


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> I've no idea if the ATE S has any changes or not but I'm hoping there is.



From the adverts, mostly, in the pictures it looks like they've used a different driver. Another identifying feature is they have replace those great knurelled wire holders ( where they join the earpiece) with plastic or rubber inserts . Unfortunately in the pictures they are red on both sides instead of red and blue. I haven't orderd a set yet but it's next on the list.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The Havi bi-flange tips are brilliant on the ZS1! Tame the bass allowing the mids and treble to show their faces. These iems continue to impress.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> The Havi bi-flange tips are brilliant on the ZS1! Tame the bass allowing the mids and treble to show their faces. These iems continue to impress.



No, no no! I love the bi-flange tips, but I only have the sets which are on the Havi's. They work briliantly but I have never been able to find a source for them. They seem to be shorter than any I've seen, so I keep them kn the Havi's. Now if you found the secret of where to find new ones. If you know, have a source, know a guy who knows a guy " I won't tell a soul" I would love to get some more. Keep up the good work on the Zs1's we all benefit!


----------



## DaveLT

Nah, I rather let the bass do the work on the ZS1 and all you need to do to tame the bass is raise the treble using EQ when in a fix. Job done.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> No, no no! I love the bi-flange tips, but I only have the sets which are on the Havi's. They work briliantly but I have never been able to find a source for them. They seem to be shorter than any I've seen, so I keep them kn the Havi's. Now if you found the secret of where to find new ones. If you know, have a source, know a guy who knows a guy " I won't tell a soul" I would love to get some more. Keep up the good work on the Zs1's we all benefit!




Baycode helped arrange a review copy of the B3 for me. I 've been testing the tips on different iems while they burn, and the bi-flange are fantastic with the ZS1. They're the only multi- flange tip I've tried that work with my wonky left ear canal. I also would like to know where to get more! Hopefully they seal as well with the B3, lol.


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> Baycode helped arrange a review copy of the B3 for me. I 've been testing the tips on different iems while they burn, and the bi-flange are fantastic with the ZS1. They're the only multi- flange tip I've tried that work with my wonky left ear canal. I also would like to know where to get more! Hopefully they seal as well with the B3, lol.




Are you talking about these?


----------



## Majin

Just received my KZ ZN1 and wow do they sound awesome. I don't mind the amp placement but the weight is definitly a little bit annoying. At the current price i wouldn't really recommend them, since the HDS1 are so cheap nowadays. But if you do want an upgrade then they might be worth it. At what settings do you use on your amplifier? I am currently using 7-8 volume 8 treble and 2 bass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

peter123 said:


> Are you talking about these?




Those are the ones


----------



## peter123

b9scrambler said:


> Those are the ones




I'm on my phone right now but just search for "sennheiser double tips" on eBay and you'll get plenty of results.

Those are some of my all-time favorite tips.


----------



## TwinACStacks

sgl54 said:


> From the adverts, mostly, in the pictures it looks like they've used a different driver. Another identifying feature is they have replace those great knurelled wire holders ( where they join the earpiece) with plastic or rubber inserts . Unfortunately in the pictures they are red on both sides instead of red and blue. I haven't orderd a set yet but it's next on the list.


 






 The Specs are identical. JFYI
  








 TWIN


----------



## HiFiChris

I wouldn't be surprised if [ATE-S's] sound was different (even if the drivers remained the same). Just like with the ZS1, they could basically change the inner nozzle diameter or do other things like adding damping material behind the tweeter vent's mesh (and also have differently sized body vents and so on). They could tune the ATE-S to a completely different sound signature with the same drivers or get an (almost) identical tuning with a different one.


----------



## sgl54

twinacstacks said:


> The Specs are identical. JFYI
> 
> TWIN



Thanks Twin, why am I not surprised, bummer although the pictures sure are pretty! Any idea what changes they've made? Should be interesting to hear it, I like the form factor. Kz keeps improving their drivers especially their micro drivers.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Baycode helped arrange a review copy of the B3 for me. I 've been testing the tips on different iems while they burn, and the bi-flange are fantastic with the ZS1. They're the only multi- flange tip I've tried that work with my wonky left ear canal. I also would like to know where to get more! Hopefully they seal as well with the B3, lol.



The bi-flange are the recommemded tips for the B3 and they work perfectly on them. All things considered I think you'll enjoy the Havi's. They're still on the top of my list. Definately worth having in your arsenal.


----------



## sgl54

peter123 said:


> Are you talking about these?



Looks like them the Havi's bi-flanges have that short squat appearance.


----------



## sgl54

majin said:


> Just received my KZ ZN1 and wow do they sound awesome. I don't mind the amp placement but the weight is definitly a little bit annoying. At the current price i wouldn't really recommend them, since the HDS1 are so cheap nowadays. But if you do want an upgrade then they might be worth it. At what settings do you use on your amplifier? I am currently using 7-8 volume 8 treble and 2 bass.



I'm using 8 on the treble and 7 on the bass. Pretty much for most things. I'm glad your enjoying them. The amp/eq fortunately is very light but with out clips applles a little to much pressure on the wires/ears. I have clips above and below the unit ( Magnatic clasps) that make it easy to adjust for slack and keeps the eq from swinging like a pendulum. I don't know they're definately not not in the same cost/sound category but I still think it reasonable great sound for the price paid, especially considering how often I actually do use them.


----------



## Majin

sgl54 said:


> I'm using 8 on the treble and 7 on the bass. Pretty much for most things. I'm glad your enjoying them. The amp/eq fortunately is very light but with out clips applles a little to much pressure on the wires/ears. I have clips above and below the unit ( Magnatic clasps) that make it easy to adjust for slack and keeps the eq from swinging like a pendulum. I don't know they're definately not not in the same cost/sound category but I still think it reasonable great sound for the price paid, especially considering how often I actually do use them.


 
 I might sell them if i can get a reasonable price for them, so i can fund my triple balance armature earphone. By no means are they bad going by the price/quality ratio but the chinese earphone manufacturers are stepping up their game big time lately.
  
 7 on bass? Are you a basshead?


----------



## CADCAM

Listening to the ED9 vs HDS1...HDS1 has more low end grunt than the ED9 w\brass nozzles. ED9 has more pronounced highs and more detail. Both are very good but I'd have to give it to the ED9 due to build quality and detail extraction while still having some clean tight low end. HDS1 is excellent but doesn't feel as well built. In your hand it seems light and plastic like although I've read it isn't plastic. Comfort though goes to the HDS1 due to them being light, small and very comfortable in the ear. ED9 is heavy in the hand and there's no question it's made of metal but once inserted is very comfortable to me. I also like the cable on the ED9 a bit more although I really don't like most, if not all the KZ cables...they can be sticky, springy and microphonics are an issue especially on the HDS1. Still out of all my KZ's ED9, ED10, EDSE, ATE, ZS1 and HDS1 my favorite is the ED9. Great price, impressive build and superior sound quality. JMHO.
  
 ATE-S, ED3 Perfection & Acme on the way.


----------



## sgl54

majin said:


> I might sell them if i can get a reasonable price for them, so i can fund my triple balance armature earphone. By no means are they bad going by the price/quality ratio but the chinese earphone manufacturers are stepping up their game big time lately.
> 
> 7 on bass? Are you a basshead?



Mo not much of a basshead, the female vocals artists I listen to are not heavy on bass so 7 or flat works fine if I move to another genre' although the 40's and 50's male work pretty good there to. Move up to 80's or 90's rock then all bets are off but press a buttonmhere a there and alls good. It may be hard selling the Zn1 given the response of the amp/eq placement. You tend to hear more negative comments about that then the actual sound quality.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> The Havi bi-flange tips are brilliant on the ZS1! Tame the bass allowing the mids and treble to show their faces. These iems continue to impress.


 
 My ZS1 still sounds a bit strange to me...I did switch to the JVC Spiral Dot tips and it did make an improvement but I think there's more to be had from them. Have you tried the JVC tips? What size bi-flange do you use and do they run big or small? I use small or medium but usually small. The Spiral Dots run slightly small.


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> My ZS1 still sounds a bit strange to me...I did switch to the JVC Spiral Dot tips and it did make an improvement but I think there's more to be had from them. Have you tried the JVC tips? What size bi-flange do you use and do they run big or small? I use small or medium but usually small. The Spiral Dots run slightly small.



I haven't tried the spiral dots, bought comply and spinfits for the Zs and some non name brand tips but the spunfits worked well so I stopped there. The only thing I'm running bi-flange on are the Havi's. They ( the B3p1 ) were supplied with small and large biflange and the large run more like an in between medium and large size than large so maybe the smalls for you.


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> My ZS1 still sounds a bit strange to me...I did switch to the JVC Spiral Dot tips and it did make an improvement but I think there's more to be had from them. Have you tried the JVC tips? What size bi-flange do you use and do they run big or small? I use small or medium but usually small. The Spiral Dots run slightly small.



Cad why don't you PM me your adress I'll shoot you a set of small Havi Bi-flange ( unused of course ) in the mail. You might as well give them a try.


----------



## stephanNL

b9scrambler said:


> Those are the ones



Easy Earphone on Aliexpress sells these.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32517832056.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> My ZS1 still sounds a bit strange to me...I did switch to the JVC Spiral Dot tips and it did make an improvement but I think there's more to be had from them. Have you tried the JVC tips? What size bi-flange do you use and do they run big or small? I use small or medium but usually small. The Spiral Dots run slightly small.


 
  
 I get why they would sound strange. Their bass driver plays it's own ballgame which is what I like so much about them. They really remind me of a home stereo with full-sized subwoofer.
  
 I have tried a ton of tips; JVCs, UE, KZ whirlwind, Skullcandy, Don Scorpio, and a slew of others from random iems. For the most part I use medium tips, but for shallow fit iems I usually use large (ZS1 is medium all the way, except for the Havi tips). My favorites are tied between the Havi bi-flange (large ones) and some random pair of mushroom shaped medium silicones. The Havi's reduce midbass and bring up the mids and treble (still heavily bass-biased, but not to the same extent), and the shroomies...well they allow that bass to come out in full force 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I feel about the same for the ZS1 as Twinstacks does for his Zircons; lots of fun, not for audiophiles.


----------



## B9Scrambler

stephannl said:


> Easy Earphone on Aliexpress sells these.
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32517832056.html


 

 OOOOOO! Thank you!


----------



## sgl54

stephannl said:


> Easy Earphone on Aliexpress sells these.
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32517832056.html



Thanks Stephan, they look pretty close, definately worth a try.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Listening to the ED9 vs HDS1...HDS1 has more low end grunt than the ED9 w\brass nozzles. ED9 has more pronounced highs and more detail. Both are very good but I'd have to give it to the ED9 due to build quality and detail extraction while still having some clean tight low end. HDS1 is excellent but doesn't feel as well built. In your hand it seems light and plastic like although I've read it isn't plastic. Comfort though goes to the HDS1 due to them being light, small and very comfortable in the ear. ED9 is heavy in the hand and there's no question it's made of metal but once inserted is very comfortable to me. I also like the cable on the ED9 a bit more although I really don't like most, if not all the KZ cables...they can be sticky, springy and microphonics are an issue especially on the HDS1. Still out of all my KZ's ED9, ED10, EDSE, ATE, ZS1 and HDS1 my favorite is the ED9. Great price, impressive build and superior sound quality. JMHO.
> 
> ATE-S, ED3 Perfection & Acme on the way.


 
  
 I just can't get behind the ED9. I really liked them when I first got them, but over time they just started to sound splashy and sloppy in the treble (EDse too). Come to think of it, that's the same reason why I stopped using the ED10 as much as I was. That and the hyper quick and punchy ootb bass died down after a couple months. That was my favorite aspect. I still think the ED10 is awesome, but the HDS1/ANV are tops of the KZ pile for me atm when it comes purely down to sound quality.
  
 The Acme is also pretty great, but they're surprisingly bassy. The original ED3 is pretty neutral for a KZ with emphasis on the treble. Really need to find the right tips for them to sound their best. If the ATE-S is like the original, they'll be a smooth, if not somewhat dull listen. I really like the ATE, but they needed some subbass. Hopefully the ATE-S fixes that.


----------



## CADCAM

Listening to my ED9's through my IEM set-up and the battery died running the Beresford gear. So I took out the disc I was listening to My Education ~ Bad Vibrations and put it in one of my full size can setups...DT880, LD MKIII, Oppo. Bad idea...very bad idea...


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> I just can't get behind the ED9. I really liked them when I first got them, but over time they just started to sound splashy and sloppy in the treble (EDse too). Come to think of it, that's the same reason why I stopped using the ED10 as much as I was. That and the hyper quick and punchy ootb bass died down after a couple months. That was my favorite aspect. I still think the ED10 is awesome, but the HDS1/ANV are tops of the KZ pile for me atm when it comes purely down to sound quality.
> 
> The Acme is also pretty great, but they're surprisingly bassy. The original ED3 is pretty neutral for a KZ with emphasis on the treble. Really need to find the right tips for them to sound their best. If the ATE-S is like the original, they'll be a smooth, if not somewhat dull listen. I really like the ATE, but they needed some subbass. Hopefully the ATE-S fixes that.


 
 I had the same issue as you with the ED9 only with the ED10's, impressive OOTB but the more I listened the more issue's I heard. Luckily for me that has not been the case with my ED9's they just continue to impress the hell out of me. Mine are not splashy or sloppy...more like super clean and detail up the wazzu! I can only use the brass nozzles as the gold are just too bassy and treble heavy for me. I did put some foam in my brass nozzles to tame them just a bit. They just click with me I have 2 pairs of the chrome and keep eyeing the flat black...


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I had the same issue as you with the ED9 only with the ED10's, impressive OOTB but the more I listened the more issue's I heard. Luckily for me that has not been the case with my ED9's they just continue to impress the hell out of me. Mine are not splashy or sloppy...more like super clean and detail up the wazzu! I can only use the brass nozzles as the gold are just too bassy and treble heavy for me. I did put some foam in my brass nozzles to tame them just a bit. They just click with me I have 2 pairs of the chrome and keep eyeing the flat black...




I have to say I'm with both of you I have stated a few times that the ED9 is yet to be surpassed in the KZ lineup (mine) but I will also say both the HDS1 and ED3 original are exceptional iem's for around $10. 

I've not had in degradation in the SQ on any of these KZ's, maybe I have been lucky or have not worn these out.


----------



## peter123

podster said:


> I have to say I'm with both of you I have stated a few times that the ED9 is yet to be surpassed in the KZ lineup (mine) but I will also say both the HDS1 and ED3 original are exceptional iem's for around $10.
> 
> I've not had in degradation in the SQ on any of these KZ's, maybe I have been lucky or have not worn these out.




Yeah, after being initially very impressive with the HDS1 I find the mid-bass to intrusive on them. Don't get me wrong, they're still seriously good for $8 but I'd rate the ED9 with brass nozzle higher.


----------



## Ruben123

peter123 said:


> Yeah, after being initially very impressive with the HDS1 I find the mid-bass to intrusive on them. Don't get me wrong, they're still seriously good for $8 but I'd rate the ED9 with brass nozzle higher.




Dang ordered them last week because of the tamer treble. Bass of the ed9 was already on the edge for me so it seems my search for another iem has already resumed lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Dang ordered them last week because of the tamer treble. Bass of the ed9 was already on the edge for me so it seems my search for another iem has already resumed lol




I find the ED9 brighter and bassier than the HDS1 with either nozzle. *shrug* The HDS1 is a much more balanced (not neutral) phone to my ears.

I think the ED3c is fantastic as well, but they are pretty bassy. Maybe too bassy for their signature.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> I find the ED9 brighter and bassier than the HDS1 with either nozzle. *shrug* The HDS1 is a much more balanced (not neutral) phone to my ears.
> 
> I think the ED3c is fantastic as well, but they are pretty bassy. Maybe too bassy for their signature.




Lol OK then


----------



## airomjosh

any suggestion on which tips get better seal with ATE? been trying to figure out how can i get a better seal with them, theyre like a puzzle to me


----------



## DaveLT

So, is the perfection ED3 or the ED9 better? (Flat black version)


----------



## CADCAM

Hey guys I bought the KZ EDSE awhile back, broke them in and listened a bit. Decided they sounded good but seemed to sound better out of my Sansa Clip than my home setup so I relegated them to the gym bag and they have served me well. I noticed a few times while training these things seemed to be sounding better and better so I brought them back to the home setup, replaced the tips with some Spiral Dots and they sound very very good...several notches up from where I remember. Good highs and taunt bass, clean and clear sounding. Man these sound good to me. Much more polished than I remember. Surprised they aren't brought up more.
 Anyone have these? Impressions? I notice mine have red screen covers and the ones I see on Ali have a silver screen...


----------



## HiFiChris

cadcam said:


> [...] KZ EDSE [...]
> Anyone have these? Impressions?


 

 Bought them some time ago, haven only used them seldom though - should take them out of the drawer again.
 My initial impression with them was really good (don't remember their sound signature anymore, but I guess it was v-shaped with warm ground-tone; or was it warm, bassy and smooth? I should definitely take them out of the drawer again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), definitely a keeper.


----------



## peter123

The EDSE was one of the first IEMs to really put KZ on the map. There's been a lot of impressions of them earlier in this thread.

Although they're (or at least were) great for the money I found them to have too much mid-bass bloat (as usual  ).


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> Hey guys I bought the KZ EDSE awhile back, broke them in and listened a bit. Decided they sounded good but seemed to sound better out of my Sansa Clip than my home setup so I relegated them to the gym bag and they have served me well. I noticed a few times while training these things seemed to be sounding better and better so I brought them back to the home setup, replaced the tips with some Spiral Dots and they sound very very good...several notches up from where I remember. Good highs and taunt bass, clean and clear sounding. Man these sound good to me. Much more polished than I remember. Surprised they aren't brought up more.
> Anyone have these? Impressions? I notice mine have red screen covers and the ones I see on Ali have a silver screen...



I have a set, although the silver screen version. They had a good reputation early on. Ok not really that lkng ago if I recall everyone thought good things about them. It's a great form factor with surprising sound quality. It' also ( in my experiance) one of the Kz's that benefits well from (burn in) use. They definately improve over time.


----------



## CADCAM

peter123 said:


> The EDSE was one of the first IEMs to really put KZ on the map. There's been a lot of impressions of them earlier in this thread.
> 
> Although they're (or at least were) great for the money I found them to have too much mid-bass bloat (as usual
> 
> ...


 
 I'll have to take a look back and read some posts on them. I'm still listening to them and yea you may be right they do have a smidge too much mid bass... but they sound fantastic and I have a damping switch on my amp that allows me to tweak the bass. Listening to some Al Dimeola and they are doing a great job. These are probably going to move into my favorite slot right after the ED9 & HDS1's. Still not feeling the ZS1...but I'm not giving up yet I ordered more tips.
  
 Any idea on differences between the silver and red screens?


----------



## sgl54

cadcam said:


> I'll have to take a look back and read some posts on them. I'm still listening to them and yea you may be right they do have a smidge too much mid bass... but they sound fantastic and I have a damping switch on my amp that allows me to tweak the bass. Listening to some Al Dimeola and they are doing a great job. These are probably going to move into my favorite slot right after the ED9 & HDS1's. Still not feeling the ZS1...but I'm not giving up yet I ordered more tips.
> 
> Any idea on differences between the silver and red screens?



Could it be that the "Silver screen's"" were the original release and the "Red" is a reissue? They had disappeared for a time, than reappeared a few mknths later. Also some where along the line Kz started introducing color into their phones. Sort of a fasion forward marketing approach. I can see how it could happen " A mild mannered Kz sound engineer ( maybe even a phd ) wanders into a dimly lit bar, in a trendy section of downtown. Being a typical " Sound Doc" he throws in his sleek flag ship Kz's to protect his hearing. The pretty little patron sitting down the bar asks him what he's doing. Long story short she says they'd sure be pretty in red and match her dress, so being galant amd thinking she's very pretty, he responds" I can make you a set" . Now the rest is history! Ok maybe not but it's better than we got a bunch of these, laying around and they're not selling so we'll paint them red.


----------



## 1clearhead

Has anybody receive the KZ-S3 yet? .....It puts the other ED3's to shame.


----------



## joemama

1clearhead said:


> Has anybody receive the KZ-S3 yet? .....It puts the other ED3's to shame.


 

 Ordered on Friday from Mister Tao.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I'm patiently waiting for ED4.  I wish someone had a review.
  
 Funny how the wait for a cheap earphone can really get to you.
  








 TWIN


----------



## sgl54

twinacstacks said:


> I'm patiently waiting for ED4.  I wish someone had a review.
> 
> Funny how the wait for a cheap earphone can really get to you.
> 
> TWIN



It's a always interesting alright. I haven't found any rhyme or reason to it. The hardest thimg I think is that every once in awhile one order will show up almost immediately. Which while very cool just throws of my expectations completely out of wack. Not to mention my well cultivated shipping "Zen" . I know ( think, if everything shipped ok ) I'm waiting on four now and it's always a surprise as to what comes first!


----------



## ezekiel77

My KZs just arrived, I took an immediate liking to the ED3c. Very fun to listen to. Slightly lifted midbass and lower mids, and smooth as silk. I would've easily paid $50 for this. More listening to come. And they say S3 is better than this? Is that the holy grail?


----------



## rjbell

What terrible customer service. The shipped edse not the ed9 I paid for and the will not reship the ed9. I've explained I will be buying in bulk in the future and buying samples and that I need a supplier I can trust when things inevitably go wrong. This made no diffence they do not want to know. I guess I'm looking for a new manufacturer. They've lost tens of thousands of dollars business for the sake of a pair of $15 earphones.


----------



## joemama

ezekiel77 said:


> My KZs just arrived, I took an immediate liking to the ED3c. Very fun to listen to. Slightly lifted midbass and lower mids, and smooth as silk. I would've easily paid $50 for this. More listening to come. And they say S3 is better than this? Is that the holy grail?


 

 Shhhhhhhh...don't give them any idea (rericing).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously, they get better with burn in. I can't wait to get my hands on the S3. Hopefully they'll arrive sooner than later.


----------



## BudgetListener

So which one is better. Kz ED3 or Rock Mula. Looking for a analytical and detailed sound.


----------



## Turkleton

krash183 said:


> I'm quite impressed with the ATEs. So much better than the xiaomi Hybrids. Not even close tbh.




Hmm, I've read impressions where people compare the ATEs to Rock Zircons - and the Zircons win out.

I have both Xiaomi hybrids n the Zircons. I honestly love the hybrids so much more. This is making me curious and giving me an itchy trigger finger.. Feel like getting the ATEs to find out.

Mind sharing your impression on why the ATEs are better than the hybrids?


----------



## DaveLT

turkleton said:


> Hmm, I've read impressions where people compare the ATEs to Rock Zircons - and the Zircons win out.
> 
> I have both Xiaomi hybrids n the Zircons. I honestly love the hybrids so much more. This is making me curious and giving me an itchy trigger finger.. Feel like getting the ATEs to find out.
> 
> Mind sharing your impression on why the ATEs are better than the hybrids?


 
  
 I too have both now. I think the ATEs are creamier than the hybrids with better layering and texture plus detail. And it doesn't sound so freaking dark.
  
 But the ZS1 is more awesome than both of them


----------



## TwinACStacks

davelt said:


> I too have both now. I think the ATEs are creamier than the hybrids with better layering and texture plus detail. And it doesn't sound so freaking dark.
> 
> But the ZS1 is more awesome than both of them


 





 If You like the signature of the ATE which I personally consider Bass-Heavy, you will love the VJJB V1.
  
 There must be Huge variations from what I'm hearing about those Xiaomi Hybrids. Mine were very Dark OOTB now they are WAY brighter than the ATE with better controlled Bass.
  
 I'm guessing I was lucky.
  
 BTW: I have 2 Pairs of ATE.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> If You like the signature of the ATE which I personally consider Bass-Heavy, you will love the VJJB V1.
> 
> There must be Huge variations from what I'm hearing about those Xiaomi Hybrids. Mine were very Dark OOTB now they are WAY brighter than the ATE with better controlled Bass.
> 
> ...




Wait!? You found the ATE bassy heavy? I've got four pairs that I got on release and all are very bass lite. They're all neutral and mildly warm.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

twinacstacks said:


> If You like the signature of the ATE which I personally consider Bass-Heavy, you will love the VJJB V1.
> 
> There must be Huge variations from what I'm hearing about those Xiaomi Hybrids. Mine were very Dark OOTB now they are WAY brighter than the ATE with better controlled Bass.
> 
> ...


 

 You think VJJB V1 is bass heavy? ''~____~
 I think our hearing differences are quite extreme...
 By the way, having 2 tiny drivers doesn't make the earphones any better if they are both the same weaklings.
 Seriously bro, if VJJB V1 is bass-heavy, then Plextone X41M is an atomic bomb.


----------



## mauriciocg

LOL
  
 I guess that KZ don't have a reasonable QC.
 So much different impressions hahahahah


----------



## DaveLT

The KZ ATE is a bit on the bassy side but it's a smooth balance of bassiness. Their QC is better these days and we're not talking about sonic differences because some of our ears may hear differently but the ZS1 compared to the ATE is definitely brighter.
But the ZS1 has great mids and treble if you raise the treble by 6dB or so. 

I've had iems in the past that is for consumer market and lacked any bass. And somehow manages to be incredibly veiled.


----------



## sgl54

rjbell said:


> What terrible customer service. The shipped edse not the ed9 I paid for and the will not reship the ed9. I've explained I will be buying in bulk in the future and buying samples and that I need a supplier I can trust when things inevitably go wrong. This made no diffence they do not want to know. I guess I'm looking for a new manufacturer. They've lost tens of thousands of dollars business for the sake of a pair of $15 earphones.



Well, I think we've all ( on this forum )been through that. There are vendors that are very responsive and other that really just don't care. I'm pretty certain it isn't the " Manufacturer" that's at the heart of the issue but a vendor that just doesn't care and quite possible doesn't see a lot of difference between the Ed9 and the EDSe. I prefer to spend my dollars ( not bulk but consistent purchases ) with someone who cares and understands the product and appreciates my custom wither it's $6.33, $15.00 or $49.95 . The products themselves ( Kz earphones ) have been great and fun. I've not had any of the Qc issues that occasionally crop up. I'm sure there's a vendor out there that will comfortably and honestly meet your expectation.


----------



## sgl54

igor eisberg said:


> You think VJJB V1 is bass heavy? ''~____~
> I think our hearing differences are quite extreme...
> By the way, having 2 tiny drivers doesn't make the earphones any better if they are both the same weaklings.
> Seriously bro, if VJJB V1 is bass-heavy, then Plextone X41M is an atomic bomb.



A





mauriciocg said:


> LOL
> 
> I guess that KZ don't have a reasonable QC.
> So much different impressions hahahahah



I am so glad it's a Kz QC issue, all this time I thought my ears were the problem!


----------



## fallrsk

rjbell if you're willing to give it one more try, without knowing who your vendor was, try Teresa at Shenzhen HCKexin. I haven't heard a negative thing about them yet and they've supplied me perfectly thus far.


----------



## leasedeb

What KZ would be best for mostly pop (60) and rock (40)?


----------



## ezekiel77

leasedeb said:


> What KZ could be best for mostly pop (60) and rock (40)?




HDS1 is balanced/neutralish and a good all-rounder.
ED3c has slightly lifted lower mids and midbass for a more fun sound.
ZS1 is for the basshead in you.
Depends on your preference.


----------



## sgl54

leasedeb said:


> What KZ would be best for mostly pop (60) and rock (40)?



Zn1
Ed9 
Zs1
EDSe
Is that really rock from the 40's? That's how I'm reading it and if that's correct the Zn1's are my hands down favorite for these older and occasionally poorer recordings. Nate King Cole, Richard Powell, Martin or Sinatra you can't go wrong but the Zn1's have cost and wearing issues ( amp/eq) The 9's simply work as ezekell77 covered the HDs1 and the ESDSE fits that same catagory there are those. The Zs1 are Bassy but they have good mid amd high extension so they I think would be great for the 60's pop.


----------



## leasedeb

sgl54 said:


> Zn1
> Ed9
> Zs1
> EDSe
> Is that really rock from the 40's? That's how I'm reading it and if that's correct the Zn1's are my hands down favorite for these older and occasionally poorer recordings. Nate King Cole, Richard Powell, Martin or Sinatra you can't go wrong but the Zn1's have cost and wearing issues ( amp/eq) The 9's simply work as ezekell77 covered the HDs1 and the ESDSE fits that same catagory there are those. The Zs1 are Bassy but they have good mid amd high extension so they I think would be great for the 60's pop.



Thank you and sorry the number was for what I listen are 60(pop) and 40(rock) out of 100


----------



## Turkleton

davelt said:


> I too have both now. I think the ATEs are creamier than the hybrids with better layering and texture plus detail. And it doesn't sound so freaking dark.
> 
> But the ZS1 is more awesome than both of them




Itchy trigger finger averted!!! 

I have the ZS1s otw, ordered on 11 /11


----------



## fairx

Joining the KZ express train at last , ordered the KZ ATE, arrived next week. can't wait!

BTW, I own Soundmagic E80 which is the best I have so far, with the vent port closed mod I'm very satisfied with it.

the issue with e80 is NO call / mic.

so I would like to as for opinion if any of you also experience E80 maybe can recommend the same sound signature from KZ?


----------



## alexlotta

Hi , dumb quick question ^=Do have all KZ earphones the MIC included?
 Looking at ed10 i did not see it , with volume up /hi central button etc.

 My intention = is to buy a bunch (3-4 or 5 ) from  Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology to try .
 ( i did read here is a reputable seller , it would be my first buy on aliexpress ) to try different ones .

 With volumes and Micbutton , which ones you would suggest to try between economic ones ?
 I would try ED4 ..in general i'm rock /metal progressive oriented but i apreciate separation and clarity .

 Page of seller is here but if you have other reputable better links are wellcome 
 http://it.aliexpress.com/store/group/KZ-earphone/1825606_504378657.html?isFreeShip=y&SortType=price_asc&g=y

 ___________

 PS:i'm new ( Italy so foreigner )  but i did buy my old Xiaomi pistons thanks to that forum .
 Destroyed all of them ,  so now need replacement and found KZ Thread
 TY all in advance guys


----------



## DaveLT

Just got in a EDR1 as a gift. It's surprisingly better than it costs and way more!
 Amazing. Sounds pretty decent even by KZ standards. For 4$ I wasn't expecting much.


----------



## raybone0566

Received my ate-s yesterday, will spend some time with them this evening.


----------



## CADCAM

budgetlistener said:


> So which one is better. Kz ED3 or Rock Mula. Looking for a analytical and detailed sound.


 
 Idon't have the ED3 yet but it is on the way...I do have the Mula and they are not as good as I thought they would be. The Zircons are much better but have exaggerated bass.


----------



## CADCAM

raybone0566 said:


> Received my ate-s yesterday, will spend some time with them this evening.


 
 Yes... let us know what you think. Mine are coming and I'm hoping they are another great KZ!


----------



## wastan

fallrsk said:


> rjbell if you're willing to give it one more try, without knowing who your vendor was, try Teresa at Shenzhen HCKexin. I haven't heard a negative thing about them yet and they've supplied me perfectly thus far.




They also ship pretty fast, got my 11/11 order in under two weeks to USA; I'm still waiting on stuff from other vendors.


----------



## sgl54

leasedeb said:


> Thank you and sorry the number was for what I listen are 60(pop) and 40(rock) out of 100



Now that makes a lot more sense. I've ran into a few that listen to the early Jazz etc. All the early stuff is so mixed source wise. But the list of phones still holds up Ed9, Edse Hd1 the Zn1 pretty much is tunable for anything Zs still bassy but fun.


----------



## Fake Amethyst

What's the current flagship of kz? (would be looking to use it with my fiio x1)


----------



## kaiteck

fake amethyst said:


> What's the current flagship of kz? (would be looking to use it with my fiio x1)


 not too sure. But if i need to guess, its probably zn1


----------



## Ruben123

Hds1 arrived, sky blue version. Sweet, very lightweight but seem also more fragile than other kzs! Will see how they compare to ed9 brass.


----------



## kaiteck

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## sgl54

kaiteck said:


> not too sure. But if i need to guess, its probably zn1



Yes it's still their current flagship tech wise and form my experiance sound wise. I don't hesitate recommending them especially with the X1 ( I have both the X1 and X3ii) it works well with their ( Fiio ) house sound. The one caveat, which many pepple have difficulty over coming, it the placement of the EQ/amp. These are over the ear phones and the amp comes to rest on the upper cheast. Takes a little time to find a way to comfortably wear it ( I use two magnetic clasps, above and below) which simplifies thjngs. Made from clasp magnets from Michaels ( under $5.00) but I've fpund I use these on all my earphones simply because it's effortless and works. The sound is great on the Zn1's and easily tunable. Hard to go wrong.


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Yes it's still their current flagship tech wise and form my experiance sound wise. I don't hesitate recommending them especially with the X1 ( I have both the X1 and X3ii) it works well with their ( Fiio ) house sound. The one caveat, which many pepple have difficulty over coming, it the placement of the EQ/amp. These are over the ear phones and the amp comes to rest on the upper cheast. Takes a little time to find a way to comfortably wear it ( I use two magnetic clasps, above and below) which simplifies thjngs. Made from clasp magnets from Michaels ( under $5.00) but I've fpund I use these on all my earphones simply because it's effortless and works. The sound is great on the Zn1's and easily tunable. Hard to go wrong.


 

 This seems to be a very nice combo for under $80 and they fit in a top shirt pocket just fine


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Wait!? You found the ATE bassy heavy? I've got four pairs that I got on release and all are very bass lite. They're all neutral and mildly warm.


 





 Then you must be using the wrong Eartips. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually only 1 of my ATE are Bass Heavy the other isn't as bad but they are both DARK which is what I was referring to about the VJJB V1 it has a similar dark signature but I feel it's much more detailed.
  
 BTW Try the Red Core Eartips that come with the ED9 on the ATE, they really sound good.
  
 I still like the Xiaomi Hybrid better. Sorry, JMHO


----------



## fallrsk

alexlotta none, as far as I know, contain any volume controls due to some androids uaing different coding and the iPhone having a very different coding. They keep it simple with a the play/pause button.

The earphones have an option (before adding to youe cart) where you will choose mic or mic-less versions.


----------



## TwinACStacks

igor eisberg said:


> You think VJJB V1 is bass heavy? ''~____~
> I think our hearing differences are quite extreme...
> By the way, having 2 tiny drivers doesn't make the earphones any better if they are both the same weaklings.
> Seriously bro, if VJJB V1 is bass-heavy, then Plextone X41M is an atomic bomb.


 





 Igor, I was referring to the Darker signature, not Being Bass Heavy. Personally there are quite a Few Single Driver Phones I like more than some of the Multi Driver. I'm NOT of the opinion that multi is better. For the most Part, I consider the KZ line to be Bass EQ'd. They pretty much say it on every earphone ad on Aliexpress.
  
 The VJJB V1 really isn't a weakling with enough power. The EARMAX ER 580 or Moaol MP850 are weakings.
  
  
 For example I LOVE the Carot One Tittas. They ARE Audiophile Neutral and damn near Flat. They are also single 11mm Driver. However, for most of you KZ addicts they won't have enough Bass though. but on the Bright side they take POWER and EQ beautifully.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Then you must be using the wrong Eartips.  Actually only 1 of my ATE are Bass Heavy the other isn't as bad but they are both DARK which is what I was referring to about the VJJB V1 it has a similar dark signature but I feel it's much more detailed.
> 
> BTW Try the Red Core Eartips that come with the ED9 on the ATE, they really sound good.
> 
> I still like the Xiaomi Hybrid better. Sorry, JMHO




I've swapped around eartips quite a bit. Settled on something similar to what you recommended, but made with softer silicone. None of the stock KZ tips play well with my ears  

I would almost say they're dull sounding, but they have just barely enough treble energy to avoid it. That said, I quite enjoy them for relaxing and very low volume listening. More engaged sessions go to the HDS1,ZS1, or ANV...for the most part. Micro Ring gets some ear time, as does the ED3c.


----------



## TwinACStacks

turkleton said:


> Hmm, I've read impressions where people compare the ATEs to Rock Zircons - and the Zircons win out.
> 
> I have both Xiaomi hybrids n the Zircons. I honestly love the hybrids so much more. This is making me curious and giving me an itchy trigger finger.. Feel like getting the ATEs to find out.
> 
> Mind sharing your impression on why the ATEs are better than the hybrids?


 





 I happen to 100% agree with you. The Xiaomi are far better. I have all of them.
  
 It simply boils down to the fact that you can use these reviews and opinions as a Guide, but when it all boils down, either you like the sound or not personally.
  
 Everyone has different Tastes and different hearing abilities. (Mine are quite good actually). Especially for an old fart that is treble sensitive.
  
 Even though the Zircons aren't as EQ'd or detailed they still are a very enjoyable listen for most stuff.
  








 TWIN


----------



## davi99

ATE vs VVJB V1? 

 balanced sound with little bit enhanced lows. which one is better for that?


----------



## TwinACStacks

twinacstacks said:


> Double post. sorry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TwinACStacks

davi99 said:


> ATE vs VVJB V1?
> 
> balanced sound with little bit enhanced lows. which one is better for that?


 





 Neither. They are actually more similar than different. *IMO *Both are darkish. My ATE's have more bass boost, but I feel the Vjjb's in all frequencies have better detail overall. That is for what they are, Inexpensive Chinese earphones.
  
 Don't try and compare them to Say Dunu's, Trinities, or even Senns. They won't hold up.
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

ED8 just arrived (literally just a few minutes ago)!! Forgot how stupidly large and heavy they were. Another quirky KZ


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> ED8 just arrived (literally just a few minutes ago)!! Forgot how stupidly large and heavy they were. Another quirky KZ


 






 Yes but they have Hellacious Bass. I gave them to my Youngest daughter but the weight of them made them keep falling out of her ears.
  
 So I duct taped them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## aaDee

-


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Yes but they have Hellacious Bass. I gave them to my Youngest daughter but the weight of them made them keep falling out of her ears.
> 
> So I duct taped them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 ED8 are old hat  But yeah, that bass is why I bought them 
  
 Lookie what else arrived! I think it is finally safe to say they are legit KZs.


----------



## joemama

b9scrambler said:


> ED8 are old hat  But yeah, that bass is why I bought them
> 
> Lookie what else arrived! I think it is finally safe to say they are legit KZs.


 
 Yep, that's exactly the way they came to my place yesterday. Burning them in as I type this. The bass on these OOTB is insane IMO!!!!


----------



## TwinACStacks

joemama said:


> Yep, that's exactly the way they came to my place yesterday. Burning them in as I type this. The bass on these OOTB is insane IMO!!!!


 





 I'm just guessing but from the info I've been able to gather they appear to be the Apparatus from the Micro Ring in a different housing (like Yamaha EPH100 or something?).
  
 The reason I think it is, is because when I sign into Ali then go to my old orders, when I click on the Micro Ring It now comes up as the ED2.
  
 What do you think scrambler?
  








 TWIN


----------



## Podster

twinacstacks said:


> Neither. They are actually more similar than different. *IMO *Both are darkish. My ATE's have more bass boost, but I feel the Vjjb's in all frequencies have better detail overall. That is for what they are, Inexpensive Chinese earphones.
> 
> Don't try and compare them to Say Dunu's, Trinities, or even Senns. They won't hold up.
> 
> ...


 

 Indeed, as much as I like several of the sub $15 Chinese iem's they are not EX1's or even Trinity Hypes! With that said they are killer for >$65 less
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Twin, did she try those 8's hung over ear? That gummy texture to the KZ's really keep them in place when wrapped over ear


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> ED8 are old hat  But yeah, that bass is why I bought them
> 
> Lookie what else arrived! I think it is finally safe to say they are legit KZs.


 
 Now those bring new meaning to BIG BORE nozzles, I'm guessing those double flange are specific to that model only?


----------



## robvagyok

I still don't see why people talk about ATE being bass-heavier... or I just got a defect (fake?) one?
 to me they almost sound flat.


----------



## B9Scrambler

robvagyok said:


> I still don't see why people talk about ATE being bass-heavier... or I just got a defect (fake?) one?
> to me they almost sound flat.


 
  
 That's my experience with all 4 pairs (all the silver launch model); mostly flat/neutral dark sound.


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> I'm just guessing but from the info I've been able to gather they appear to be the Apparatus from the Micro Ring in a different housing (like Yamaha EPH100 or something?).
> 
> The reason I think it is, is because when I sign into Ali then go to my old orders, when I click on the Micro Ring It now comes up as the ED2.
> 
> ...




I've only put about an hour into them so far so *take this with a grain of salt* _(this is directed at everyone reading this comment)_. Direct comparison to the Micro Ring:

- HDS2 is brighter with a clear v-shaped signature
- HDS2's lush mids are very similar in tone, but less forward
- HDS2 has a larger soundstage (thank you Yamaha for your amazing engineering on the housing)
- Like the Micro Ring, they are VERY smooth but are lacking the veil (edit...scratch that...still veiled)
- They're two very different earphones overall

They remind me a lot of the ED3c, but with a more airy soundstage and slightly more sub-bass. The mids despite being less forward than the ED3c's are more clear and intelligible. Weird. So far so good though. Haven't tried amping them yet.

*One thing that's throwing me off so far is mid presence. On some songs they sound really forward, on others they sound really recessed. Seems to be very sensitive to the recording.* 


podster said:


> Now those bring new meaning to BIG BORE nozzles, I'm guessing those double flange are specific to that model only?




Yeah...these nozzles are pretty beefy. Not for those with small ear canals, that's for sure, lol. These dual flange tips are just like the ones that came with my replica EPH-100s (now retired, btw), BUT, and this is a big but for those wanting replacement tips for their EPH-100, not nearly as flimsy and fragile feeling. I can actually get a seal with these, and they didn't tear apart when I first took them off. Still had to be careful, but it wasn't a test of patience and skill.



joemama said:


> Yep, that's exactly the way they came to my place yesterday. Burning them in as I type this. The bass on these OOTB is insane IMO!!!!




Compared to the ZS1 these are little babies. Compared to "normal" iems, yeah, big bass :basshead:


----------



## robvagyok

b9scrambler said:


> That's my experience with all 4 pairs (all the silver launch model); mostly flat/neutral dark sound.


 
 I tought I might be hearing something wrong with them... 
 there are definiately better KZ's


----------



## ajaxender

b9scrambler said:


> - Like the Micro Ring, they are VERY smooth but are lacking the veil (edit...scratch that...still veiled)





> - Compared the the ZS1 these are little babies. Compared to "normal" iems, yeah, big bass


 
  
 I definitely agree with these statements


----------



## ezekiel77

HDS2 sounds good! Thank you Yamaha haha. Never tried the EPH100 but now I might not need to.


----------



## kelvinjulio

How about kz ed9 vs kz hds2??
which one is better??


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> That's my experience with all 4 pairs (all the silver launch model); mostly flat/neutral dark sound.


 
 Mine are black and I would say they are bassy...they are also dark sounding with rolled of highs. I wouldn't say mine are flat sounding. I wonder if somehow the silver and black sound a bit different? I think another member said they did sound different, either way I hope the ATE-S is an improvement but I do like the standard ATE and will be keeping them.


----------



## 1clearhead

OK, after ready much of the last few pages, I believe KZ has added an extra adition to there ED3 line-up. Right?
  
 ED3 (original)
  
 ED3 (Youth Version)
  
 KZ S3 (ED3 (Silver))
  
 and now
  
 ED3c
  
 .....Wow, They're going to lose me at some point.


----------



## ezekiel77

1clearhead said:


> OK, after ready much of the last few pages, I believe KZ has added an extra adition to there ED3 line-up. Right?
> 
> ED3 (original)
> 
> ...


 
 ED3c is the youth version lol.


----------



## DaveLT

It got "lost" and right after the refund has been issued, I received it. Slap dash services. 
 The KZ ED10.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

1clearhead said:


> OK, after ready much of the last few pages, I believe KZ has added an extra adition to there ED3 line-up. Right?
> 
> ED3 (original)
> 
> ...


 

 ED3c doesn't exist, it's a misspell by a seller. It's called ED3 Youth Version.


----------



## DaveLT

Okay. The ED10 is the worst KZ I think in the current line up at the moment.
 Right off the bat I'm hearing sibilance like I've never heard before in a IEM (Except for the 4$ rubbish cheapie plextone calls the X37M I bought as a sacrifical IEM after learning my lesson losing my HD660 due to stupidity. But the doboly is even cheaper lol.)
  
 I'm hearing sloppy and splashy treble. No burn in and it sounds like that, it's going to the storage box.
  
 Lastly, amazingly the EDR1 sounds better. The ED10 is unfortunately, form over function.


----------



## CADCAM

ezekiel77 said:


> ED3c is the youth version lol.


 
 Isn't there just the Perfection & Acme versions? The original Perfection version in silver and the newer Acme in various colors?
 I ordered the ED3 Acme silver and it came in the Perfection silver...a bit confusing.


----------



## TwinACStacks

cadcam said:


> Mine are black and I would say they are bassy...they are also dark sounding with rolled of highs. I wouldn't say mine are flat sounding. I wonder if somehow the silver and black sound a bit different? I think another member said they did sound different, either way I hope the ATE-S is an improvement but I do like the standard ATE and will be keeping them.


 





 Mine certainly do. The original Silver ones I have are BASS HEAVY as hell, the CLEAR (smoky Black) aren't as much.
  
 Both of mine are Modded mind you with venting holes drilled in the Body and the COPPER "cap" removed from the driver. Maybe this is why.
  








 TWIN


----------



## DaveLT

cadcam said:


> Isn't there just the Perfection & Acme versions? The original Perfection version in silver and the newer Acme in various colors?
> I ordered the ED3 Acme silver and it came in the Perfection silver...a bit confusing.


 
 The first "Acme" is the ED3 youth. The one with various colors. More colors than the pink floyd.
  
 The new ED3 Acme Silver is the S3. If you got a Perfection then it's wrong


----------



## kaiteck

robvagyok said:


> I still don't see why people talk about ATE being bass-heavier... or I just got a defect (fake?) one?
> to me they almost sound flat.


 
 to me, they aren't bass-heavy too, but rather, the highs is just a bit softer while mids and lows are flat.


----------



## kaiteck

Kz ate-s box
  

 Kz ate-s and Kz ate


----------



## ezekiel77

cadcam said:


> Isn't there just the Perfection & Acme versions? The original Perfection version in silver and the newer Acme in various colors?
> I ordered the ED3 Acme silver and it came in the Perfection silver...a bit confusing.


 
  
 Original ED3 says Perfection at the sides of the housing. It's only in silver.
 Youth version ED3c says The Acme at the sides. It's available in red and blue.
 Not too sure, but I think the ED S3 says The Acme too. Silver again I think.


----------



## DaveLT

kaiteck said:


> Kz ate-s box
> 
> 
> Kz ate-s and Kz ate


 
  
 Tell me how it sounds! Thinking of buying the ATE-S. Because it's over the ear the ATE keeps slipping off me ear without memory wire or the hook which annoys me


----------



## Podster

davelt said:


> Tell me how it sounds! Thinking of buying the ATE-S. Because it's over the ear the ATE keeps slipping off me ear without memory wire or the hook which annoys me


 

 I guess we are all different, mine all seem to stay on better with just the cable around my ear
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The biggest downfall for me with the ZS1's are the permanent and annoying memory wire
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 While I'm in the KZ thread really enjoying this little $65 rig


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> I guess we are all different, mine all seem to stay on better with just the cable around my ear:wink_face: The biggest downfall for me with the ZS1's are the permanent and annoying memory wire:angry_face:
> 
> While I'm in the KZ thread really enjoying this little $65 rig



Yep, I find the orignal ATE over the ear to be very comfortable and the little brass dangle seem to help. As for the Zs1's their down fall is (for me) the memory wire, it was a huge disappointment. So what it that magic little rig? Nice form factor ( something I really like about the X2)


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Yep, I find the orignal ATE over the ear to be very comfortable and the little brass dangle seem to help. As for the Zs1's their down fall is (for me) the memory wire, it was a huge disappointment. So what it that magic little rig? Nice form factor ( something I really like about the X2)


 

 The new FiiO M3 and ED9's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Going to post up my amped version with this DAP over in "Budget-Fi" here any sec


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> The new FiiO M3 and ED9's:wink_face: Going to post up my amped version with this DAP over in "Budget-Fi" here any sec:bigsmile_face:



Thanks, missed the M3 entirely I'll thake a look at the post. Budget-fi obviously a misnomer.


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> The first "Acme" is the ED3 youth. The one with various colors. More colors than the pink floyd.
> 
> The new ED3 Acme Silver is the S3. If you got a Perfection then it's wrong


 
 I bought these ~
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html
  
 They say ED3 Acme...wrong ones? They actually are pretty good.


----------



## robvagyok

just received my pair of HDS1 off Banggood (insane fast delivery to Europe, somewhere 8-9 days, LOL)
 first: now I have 4 different KZ each came in different packaging.... 
 second: after many earphones and silicone tips I've found something that actually seals my ear canal. and I mean it. they almost make vacuum in my head when I try to remove them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wish they would lose that rubbery and noisy cables.


----------



## fallrsk

Podster what player is that? Also, O don't know about you guys but the stock zs1 medium tips (red core) are hands down my favorite stock medium sized tips ever.


----------



## 1clearhead

I guess ED3 "Silver Grade" NOT to be confused with KZ-S3.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Hds2 and ed4 came in yesterday.


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> @Podster what player is that? Also, O don't know about you guys but the stock zs1 medium tips (red core) are hands down my favorite stock medium sized tips ever.


 

 The new FiiO M3, fine sounding player. Some are not pleased with the UI (see thread) but I'm sure FiiO will be working on some fixes, works great for my needs and size, sound and build quality make it a sweet player for me.
  
 I've amped it with the BW AP001 and it's still pocketable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 And it sounds great with MOE's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 More than enough clean power.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Hds2 and ed4 came in yesterday.


 
  
 If you get a quick listen, how's the ED4's signature sounding like?


----------



## Hisoundfi

I gta get some time with them before I say anything. 

Soon


----------



## TwinACStacks

My ED4 is on the way. QUICK HiFi, what's your first impression. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

Ordered KZ ED3 youth from Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology on 11-25 and received them 12-7 not bad. 
Ordered ATE-S same day from Easy Earphones & Headphones Co'ltd but nothing yet...


----------



## DangerClose

I got the EDR1, which is apparently an EDSE or close to it.  Pretty bright to me.  Some quick messing with the EQ, the more left the slider is the higher I raised it, ending at a max of about +6db at 20hz, that thickened things up a bit while still having clear detail.  
  
 Only A-B'd them with a couple IEMs so far.  My old XKdun CK700 that were popular cheap IEMs in the past.  CK700 is thicker with way more (excessive) low end.  Left-right soundstage is similar, the EDR1 probably wins, but it's close.  CK700 sounds more aggressive, engaging, and closer soundstage in the front.  EDR1 center is farther away with nice depth and sense of space.  I'd say EDR1 has more detail, and not simply because it's brighter.  It's the typical "fun vs. analytical" fight.  Though that's not to say they both don't have crossover appeal in those categories.
  
 Any new opinions on ED8?  Particularly ED8 vs. ATE?  I had ruled out the ED8 early on due to comments about excessive bass, but looking over more comments again, maybe the bass isn't as excessive as I thought, and, this really intrigued me, some people said the soundstage is huge.


----------



## ezekiel77

cadcam said:


> Ordered KZ ED3 youth from Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology on 11-25 and received them 12-7 not bad.
> Ordered ATE-S same day from Easy Earphones & Headphones Co'ltd but nothing yet...


 
  
 How do you like the ED3 youth?


----------



## EISENbricher

dangerclose said:


> Any new opinions on ED8?  Particularly ED8 vs. ATE?  I had ruled out the ED8 early on due to comments about excessive bass, but looking over more comments again, maybe the bass isn't as excessive as I thought, and, this really intrigued me, some people said the soundstage is huge.


 
 Both ED8 and ATE share some traits. Both have nice, wide soundstage and sound smooth (no harshness). ED8 has slightly more bass and ATE is ahead in mids. In my opinion, ATE has an edge over ED8 in highs.
  
 Comfort wise both earphones have mixed reviews. ATE are huge in size and worn from behind the ear. ED8 are one of the heaviest earphones KZ has ever produced. It can be worn behind the ear of cable down with equal comfort. In my experience ED8 are great for stationary listening, while ATEs help if you are walking/running.
  
 Durability wise ED8 are among the most durable earphones of KZ. My two pairs, older than ATE are still in top notch condition, while ATE's cable joint to the earpiece is vulnerable. The sheath is of metal and that too, with sharp edges. My pair has started showing signs of the sheath edge digging into cable. 
  
 ED8 is my favorite for EDM music and ATE for rock/vocal and other genres. Hope it helps..


----------



## CADCAM

ezekiel77 said:


> How do you like the ED3 youth?


 
 I also ordered the ED3 Perfection and am still listening to that one...haven't opened the youth yet. I'll post some opinions after I compare the two.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I also ordered the ED3 Perfection and am still listening to that one...haven't opened the youth yet. I'll post some opinions after I compare the two.




Glad you are enjoying Perfection  The 'youth' model is very different imo. Much more bass heavy and warm. Still quite good.


----------



## Ruben123

So been using the HDS1 for 2 days and a lot of hours now.
  
 Impressions:
 Theyre the first pair (except Senn CX300) of IEMs that do not fall out of my ears after some 30-45 min! Heaven that is nice to have. Because they are so light and because of their signature, I sometimes felt that I had not a 100% great seal even though I had. That says something about their signature. Laid back and almost no peaks, they sound pretty balanced. Mids are ever so slightly recessed (very tiny bit if they are at all), highs are very smooth (just enough, not piercing but certainly not laid back) but their whole signature is a bit laid back because the bass is a bit lifted.
 A tiny bit, again. The bass is not as flat as Havis bass, but certainly not as lifted as ED9s brass bass (however they sound quite similar). I have to compare them closely again to my other favourites (Havi, ED9, MP 8320) but right now I can say they are just below the Havis in my top list!
 Smoother than ED9, more bass than Havi for nice sound on the go, tiny housing, lightweight, build quality is so so for KZ, isolation is certainly good (!)... yes I love them.


----------



## lesp4ul

cadcam said:


> davelt said:
> 
> 
> > The first "Acme" is the ED3 youth. The one with various colors. More colors than the pink floyd.
> ...




Is that an old version of ed3 or not? My old ed3 is exactly like that one.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## fallrsk

lesp4ul if you read the text on the iem, it's a perfection (older version).

People need due diligence when dealing with pages lile that, if you order those and expect an acme only to be surprised it's a perfection then the fault is on you.


----------



## CADCAM

lesp4ul said:


> Is that an old version of ed3 or not? My old ed3 is exactly like that one.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


 
 No sure...bought them thinking they were the "Acme" version. They do sound good though and have red driver screens. Solid build quality.
 Anyone able to identify them??


----------



## TwoPalms

This is the first time I write in this forum after reading about kz earphones. Finally I bought 3 kz earphones (hds1, ed3c & ed9). I have received HDS1 & ed3c. I really liked listening hds1, for the price of $9 can match my tdk ie800 that cost 10x more. I want to know best ear tips for hds1.


----------



## Ruben123

So compared ED9 and HDS1 more closely...
  
 ED9 brass has some sharper treble, seems to be a peak somewhere that for some people and some music really adds to the sound (as detail, more bite) but I can understand it could be just too much for some. I keep on saying my ED9s are sort of flat-warm sounding after fixing the filters.
 The HDS1 have more bass (bit more sub bass), less treble. I actually think they sound that similar that a few notches here and there on the EQ can make them sound the same. Love HDS1 more though because of their very low weight and size.


----------



## robvagyok

ruben123 said:


> So been using the HDS1 for 2 days and a lot of hours now.
> 
> Impressions:
> Theyre the first pair (except Senn CX300) of IEMs that do not fall out of my ears after some 30-45 min! Heaven that is nice to have. Because they are so light and because of their signature, I sometimes felt that I had not a 100% great seal even though I had. That says something about their signature. Laid back and almost no peaks, they sound pretty balanced. Mids are ever so slightly recessed (very tiny bit if they are at all), highs are very smooth (just enough, not piercing but certainly not laid back) but their whole signature is a bit laid back because the bass is a bit lifted.
> ...


 
 albeit still missed on the ED9 I have found almost the same with my EDS1 - the best KZ so far


----------



## fallrsk

So, eta for my ED4 is Monday, finally! Customs is probably super busy as this is true first delivery taking longer than 8 days (still super quick though!), anyway I'll post initial impressions following delivery and then a baby review / comparison to what I currently own after a bit more listening.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Aw c'mon VINCE. Feed me a little ED4 impression. I don't even care if it's Bulls*it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I'm jonesing here....
  








 TWIN


----------



## Frederick Wang

Hey, all:
 Which one of the KZ products suits symphonic music best? Thanks


----------



## CADCAM

ezekiel77 said:


> How do you like the ED3 youth?


 
 They are good...more refined than the ED3 Perfection I just received. Never spent so much time trying tips though, this hp is tip sensitive. Good bass and seems to be sounding better and better as I listen. Shouldn't be listening as they haven't cooked on the burn-in station but took forever to pick the right tips and just wanted to keep listening so they must be pretty good!


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> They are good...more refined than the ED3 Perfection I just received. Never spent so much time trying tips though, this hp is tip sensitive. Good bass and seems to be sounding better and better as I listen. Shouldn't be listening as they haven't cooked on the burn-in station but took forever to pick the right tips and just wanted to keep listening so they must be pretty good!


 
  
 "The Acme" is a pretty well-done iem. I hated them ootb to be honest, but after a night of burning they sounded awesome. I'm thinking there was some excess glue or something touching the driver, cause they sounded nasty (like my CM9). They offer up a nice balance between "Lord Bass" (ZS1) and the mostly-balanced HSD1. 
  
 What tips did you settle on? I picked some mushroom-shaped wide bores. Found they worked quite well. Same ones I use on the ZS1 actually. 
  

  
 Fun fact for you HDS2 and ZS1 owners. The HDS2 tips fit on the ZS1. Massive nozzles ftw?


----------



## ezekiel77

cadcam said:


> They are good...more refined than the ED3 Perfection I just received. Never spent so much time trying tips though, this hp is tip sensitive. Good bass and seems to be sounding better and better as I listen. Shouldn't be listening as they haven't cooked on the burn-in station but took forever to pick the right tips and just wanted to keep listening so they must be pretty good!


 
  
 That's great! I even liked them out of the box. My favorite of the bunch I ordered (incl HDS1 and ED9).


----------



## DangerClose

eisenbricher said:


> Both ED8 and ATE share some traits. Both have nice, wide soundstage and sound smooth (no harshness). ED8 has slightly more bass and ATE is ahead in mids. In my opinion, ATE has an edge over ED8 in highs.


 
 Thanks.  I don't mind some eq'ing, so soundstage size would make one the winner over the other for sound, but even for soundstage it sounds like they're more alike than different.  
  
 It's hard not to just buy a bunch of these, but I'm trying to quit that addiction.


----------



## Niyologist

I'm getting my KZ ATE-S in the mail today.


----------



## EISENbricher

dangerclose said:


> Thanks.  I don't mind some eq'ing, so soundstage size would make one the winner over the other for sound, but even for soundstage it sounds like they're more alike than different.
> 
> It's hard not to just buy a bunch of these, but I'm trying to quit that addiction.


 
 haha.. always a good idea to get all kz instead of being confused to choose between. They cost so less.


----------



## BurntToast12

eisenbricher said:


> haha.. always a good idea to get all kz instead of being confused to choose between. They cost so less.




But then, you can just get a Zircon/Havi or something.


----------



## RedTwilight

burnttoast12 said:


> But then, you can just get a Zircon/Havi or something.


 
  
 +1 Or an LZ A2 for the price you'll spend on 8-10 KZs for much much better resolution.


----------



## kaiteck

podster said:


> I guess we are all different, mine all seem to stay on better with just the cable around my ear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ya I prefer having them over my ears as well so that they are more in place and wont get off easily. The only difference is that I have a pair of ear guide for my previous kz ate lol.


----------



## DaveLT

kaiteck said:


> Ya I prefer having them over my ears as well so that they are more in place and wont get off easily. The only difference is that I have a pair of ear guide for my previous kz ate lol.


----------



## EISENbricher

burnttoast12 said:


> But then, you can just get a Zircon/Havi or something.


 
 Already have Havi as well. It's lot fun in buying number of earphones (and KZ is seriously good).


----------



## CADCAM

ezekiel77 said:


> That's great! I even liked them out of the box. My favorite of the bunch I ordered (incl HDS1 and ED9).


 
 That's awesome, I'm glad you like them too. It seems most all the KZ's are good at some level and the sound sig varies enough to accommodate everyone's tastes. 
 Still waiting on my ATE-S.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> "The Acme" is a pretty well-done iem. I hated them ootb to be honest, but after a night of burning they sounded awesome. I'm thinking there was some excess glue or something touching the driver, cause they sounded nasty (like my CM9). They offer up a nice balance between "Lord Bass" (ZS1) and the mostly-balanced HSD1.
> 
> What tips did you settle on? I picked some mushroom-shaped wide bores. Found they worked quite well. Same ones I use on the ZS1 actually.
> 
> ...


 
 Those look pretty much similar to what I ended up settling on...next time I'm just gonna PM you and ask you to send a pic of the tip your using and save myself a couple hours.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

I'm thinking of ordering some ED9 but there's a new model which is ED9S. Confused.com

Also some reviews on Ali say the cable on the mic version is rubbish. So I guess it's better to order the non mic version.


----------



## CADCAM

Right now if a had to rank my KZ hp's it would go ~
  
 KZ ED9 brass
 KZ HDS1
 KZ EDSE
 KZ ATE
 KZ ED3 Acme
 KZ ED3 Perfection
 KZ ZS1
 KZ ED10
  
 the ATE is very good and could easily switch with the EDSE...
 The ATE-S hasn't arrived and might move things around.
  
 BTW listening to all through a NAD C542->Beresford Bushmaster MKII->Beresford Capella amp
 Esoteric Audio Graphis RCA cables with Eichmann Bullet plugs
 Beresford equipment runs off an Anker Astro Pro2 20000mAh external battery


----------



## Lifted Andreas

cadcam said:


> Right now if a had to rank my KZ hp's it would go ~
> 
> KZ ED9 brass
> KZ HDS1
> ...




Don't forget the ED9S


----------



## kaiteck

lifted andreas said:


> cadcam said:
> 
> 
> > Right now if a had to rank my KZ hp's it would go ~
> ...




Cant find ed9s, where can you buy one from? 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifted Andreas

kaiteck said:


> Cant find ed9s, where can you buy one from?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk




Here:
New Original KZ ED9S Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HIFI Earphone With Mic Free Shipping
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-KZ-ED9S-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI/32548840679.html
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## kaiteck

lifted andreas said:


> kaiteck said:
> 
> 
> > Cant find ed9s, where can you buy one from?
> ...









But the item description says kz ed9.....

I cant find kz ed9s from official kz store in taobao. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## kaiteck

lifted andreas said:


> kaiteck said:
> 
> 
> > Cant find ed9s, where can you buy one from?
> ...




Is there any new things for ed9s? 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## Lifted Andreas

kaiteck said:


> But the item description says kz ed9.....
> 
> I cant find kz ed9s from official kz store in taobao.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk







kaiteck said:


> Is there any new things for ed9s?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk




My guess is that the ED9S is just the black version of ED9. Someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## CADCAM

For the record I just got the two ED3's and will listen to them more seriously over the weekend...I'll update the list if things change. This is jmho of course.


----------



## kaiteck

lifted andreas said:


> My guess is that the ED9S is just the black version of ED9. Someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.




I just received a reply from official kz store in taobao. Their salesman replied there's no such item. :/ i got hyped for nothing..


----------



## Lifted Andreas

kaiteck said:


> I just received a reply from official kz store in taobao. Their salesman replied there's no such item. :/ i got hyped for nothing..


. 

Maybe he's clueless about their products. 

How do you explain this? 


PS. It's a very respectable store where most Head-Fi users get their IEMs.


----------



## Podster

lifted andreas said:


> .
> 
> Maybe he's clueless about their products.
> 
> ...


 

 Exactly, that first AliEx add says ED9S clearly and I'm not sure if it's just the black version but they are pretty saxy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wore my 9's grocery shopping last night and I was oblivious that while on the cereal isle I was kind of dancing and some lady taps me and goes nice moves
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mind you I'm a 59 year old mildly obese bald guy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL Ah the power of music


----------



## CADCAM

I would love to know for sure if the ED9S exists and is in fact a new revision...I have 2 chrome ED9 but would buy this in a second if it wasn't just a color option.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

podster said:


> Exactly, that first AliEx add says ED9S clearly and I'm not sure if it's just the black version but they are pretty saxy:bigsmile_face: Wore my 9's grocery shopping last night and I was oblivious that while on the cereal isle I was kind of dancing and some lady taps me and goes nice moves:eek: Mind you I'm a 59 year old mildly obese bald guy:blink: LOL Ah the power of music




Haha I have has similar happen to me, although the Trance music just makes me zone out and stare at the same 3 products in an isle for about 30 mins, and then I won't buy any of them lmao



cadcam said:


> I would love to know for sure if the ED9S exists and is in fact a new revision...I have 2 chrome ED9 but would buy this in a second if it wasn't just a color option.




I'm just about to message Theresa on Ali and ask what this new model is.


----------



## kaiteck

lifted andreas said:


> .
> 
> Maybe he's clueless about their products.
> 
> ...


 
 Simple.. Its just marketing. Still not convinced? Well then, take a look at their item description. Focus on the picture they gave. Is it about kz ed9s? No. It's a picture of kz ed9.


----------



## kaiteck

lifted andreas said:


> PS. It's a very respectable store where most Head-Fi users get their IEMs.


 
 It's not gonna be soon.


----------



## 0razor1

fairx said:


> Joining the KZ express train at last , ordered the KZ ATE, arrived next week. can't wait!
> 
> BTW, I own Soundmagic E80 which is the best I have so far, with the vent port closed mod I'm very satisfied with it.
> 
> ...


 
 I need help with the exact same thing.
  
 Mic is not a compulsion.
  
 I previously had the SM E30 ( older E80 model) and they were perfect.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

kaiteck said:


> It's not gonna be soon.




Okay then you tell me why a seller like Theresa would list the same item twice under different names?? Makes no sense.


----------



## sgl54

eisenbricher said:


> Already have Havi as well. It's lot fun in buying number of earphones (and KZ is seriously good).



I have to agree, completely, well said. Havi's is still my favorite and my go to comparator. But theres just something fun and typically surprising in every Kz I own. A few are seriously good. It's hard not to enjoy the Kz journey


----------



## kaiteck

lifted andreas said:


> Okay then you tell me why a seller like Theresa would list the same item twice under different names?? Makes no sense.


 
 I've been telling you its *marketing* strategy...
  
btw, kz ed9 is available in black as well.
  
The aliexpress seller simply only sells genuine kz products but they aren't kz official. The Kz store I showed is official retail store open by kz in taobao. Do you believe chinese or translated english when it comes to kz? your choice.


----------



## sgl54

kaiteck said:


> Is there any new things for ed9s?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk



If I were to guess I'd think not. I can't think of a single instance were someone trashed the Ed9's ( ok saw pictures where it looked like someone used them for a bolo or got em caught in a fan). But they are typically at the top of everyones Kz list. It would be hard to lose that "base" or reputation by changing them. Color, finish aside ( I think I already tried to explain how that could have happened) anyway I dtill would think they would be the same.


----------



## Ruben123

sgl54 said:


> If I were to guess I'd think not. I can't think of a single instance were someone trashed the Ed9's ( ok saw pictures where it looked like someone used them for a bolo or got em caught in a fan). But they are typically at the top of everyones Kz list. It would be hard to lose that "base" or reputation by changing them. Color, finish aside ( I think I already tried to explain how that could have happened) anyway I dtill would think they would be the same.




Bit less bass, bit less treble... Winner! Hsd1 comes close to that (recommended over ed9)


----------



## sgl54

ruben123 said:


> Bit less bass, bit less treble... Winner! Hsd1 comes close to that (recommended over ed9)



Well there you go, the old school 9's are keeping up with the new kids on the block. I still haven't recieved my Hds1's yet , definately looking forward to them. I'm glad I followed" Podsters" rule of thumb and have two pair coming. Thanks Ruben123


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'm one of the few that are not overly fond of the ED9. It sits near the bottom of my list, brass nozzles in particular. The newest batch,HDS1,ZS1, and "The Acme" are all much more desirable imo. Same with the ANV if you want to go back to their older stuff.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I'm one of the few that are not overly fond of the ED9. It sits near the bottom of my list, brass nozzles in particular. The newest batch,HDS1,ZS1, and "The Acme" are all much more desirable imo. Same with the ANV if you want to go back to their older stuff.


 

 Dang Bassheads
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 LOL
  
 You know I'm just messin' wit ya B9


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> I have to agree, completely, well said. Havi's is still my favorite and my go to comparator. But theres just something fun and typically surprising in every Kz I own. A few are seriously good. It's hard not to enjoy the Kz journey


 

 As much as I like my 6 different pairs of KZ they have yet to unseat the trusty Havi's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Uh Oh, almost forgot this is the KZ thread so I better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Also just remembered I now have 7 KZ's since a fellow member sent me his old ED3 Perfections (Notin photo)


----------



## DaveLT

Now that I've been picking up the ZS1 on the way to work everyday I can report that the bass on these things have completely made me sensitive to treble!
  
 The bass extension (sub bass) on the ZS1 is simply mad! The amount of sub bass I can hear with bass completely turned down reminds me of a 15" sub! It's totally insane.
  
 To hear everyday it's a fun IEM. All you need to make it sound phenomenal is to turn up the treble on the highest end and that will show you what a badass IEM with a lot of potential is.


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> As much as I like my 6 different pairs of KZ they have yet to unseat the trusty Havi's:wink_face:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Carbon fiber Havi's, light, fast, responsive! Almost, just like, well I don't know. But I woud have say that's a great collection. 
It's a road trip weekend still trying to decide what to take amd what to leave. Visiting my father ( about 6 hour trip, lots of time for music) I've decided no to the Phonaks ( he wears the same brand and hates to have to) so you all have a great weekend.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Now that I've been picking up the ZS1 on the way to work everyday I can report that the bass on these things have completely made me sensitive to treble!
> 
> The bass extension (sub bass) on the ZS1 is simply mad! The amount of sub bass I can hear with bass completely turned down reminds me of a 15" sub! It's totally insane.
> 
> To hear everyday it's a fun IEM. All you need to make it sound phenomenal is to turn up the treble on the highest end and that will show you what a badass IEM with a lot of potential is.




I could not agree with this more.


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Dang Bassheads:eek: LOL
> 
> You know I'm just messin' wit ya B9:wink_face:




I know, haha. That said, I'm loving the Havi B3 and they have next to no bass, sooooo...yeah.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I know, haha. That said, I'm loving the Havi B3 and they have next to no bass, sooooo...yeah.


 

 Different animals altogether for me but like Dave here I just tweak the ZS1's with EQ
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sometimes I think I have a full percussion ensemble in my ears! LOL


----------



## Lifted Andreas

So this is the reply I got from Theresa about the KZ ED9S. 


Seems the dream is over.


----------



## Grayson73

KZ-HDS1 for $7.64 shipped from Amazon seller:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Binmer-TM-KZ-HDS1-Pronunciation-Headphones/dp/B0162MHAQ6


----------



## raybone0566

I've spent a short time with the ate-s. I experimented with a few tips. They come with a stock tip similar to a comply tip. Bass was much to boomy and overall sound was muddy. I next went with a set of large silicon large bore tip and they cleared up a bit but the bass was still overemphasized. I ended up with a medium pair of spin fit tips and I got the best results. However I do feel that the bass is a bit overdone. Still not bad for the price.


----------



## BurntToast12

A Question, which KZs comes with whirlwind tips?


----------



## xypex982

davelt said:


> Now that I've been picking up the ZS1 on the way to work everyday I can report that the bass on these things have completely made me sensitive to treble!
> 
> The bass extension (sub bass) on the ZS1 is simply mad! The amount of sub bass I can hear with bass completely turned down reminds me of a 15" sub! It's totally insane.
> 
> To hear everyday it's a fun IEM. All you need to make it sound phenomenal is to turn up the treble on the highest end and that will show you what a badass IEM with a lot of potential is.




I just upped the treble on my EQ and you're right it totally balances the ZS1! Now it fits all my genres I listen to.

Is there another KZ flagship around the corner, or is the ZN1 still too new?


----------



## lesp4ul

burnttoast12 said:


> A Question, which KZs comes with whirlwind tips?




ED10-11

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## lesp4ul

b9scrambler said:


> podster said:
> 
> 
> > Dang Bassheads:eek: LOL
> ...




Havi B3 Pro 1 is my favorite also for under $100 iem, great details, smooth bass mid & high, crispy strings, great mid/vocal separation, no single KZ's comes close to this, even the ANV imo.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## lesp4ul

fallrsk said:


> lesp4ul if you read the text on the iem, it's a perfection (older version).
> 
> People need due diligence when dealing with pages lile that, if you order those and expect an acme only to be surprised it's a perfection then the fault is on you.


 




cadcam said:


> lesp4ul said:
> 
> 
> > Is that an old version of ed3 or not? My old ed3 is exactly like that one.
> ...




So this is my old ed3 :

















Agree, one of the best kz so far. Comparable to my sony mh1 but mh1 still wins overall.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## DaveLT

xypex982 said:


> I just upped the treble on my EQ and you're right it totally balances the ZS1! Now it fits all my genres I listen to.
> 
> Is there another KZ flagship around the corner, or is the ZN1 still too new?


 
 The ZN1 is older than the ZS1
  


burnttoast12 said:


> A Question, which KZs comes with whirlwind tips?


 
 ED10. But the ED10 is terrible. Pick up sets of 3 (S/M/L) instead.


----------



## B9Scrambler

DaveLt I'll have to strongly disagree with you on the ED10.


----------



## cowculator

Is the HDS2 on aliexpress a real deal? I saw the pics one of the reviewer posted and it is not HDS2. 

The reason I am asking is because HDS2 is not found anywhere in the mother ship (Taobao) and that HDS1 was a rather recent release, would they release a second iteration that quickly to cannibalize the first?


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> @DaveLt I'll have to strongly disagree with you on the ED10.


 
 It's alright.
  
 Either my unit is broken (doesn't seem like it) but I get tons of driver flex on the left side and generally both sides have very exaggerated mid-highs and painful shrill highs.
 Bass is a little sloppy but the mids sounds like they come out of a distorted speaker.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

b9scrambler said:


> @DaveLt I'll have to strongly disagree with you on the ED10.


 

 Same here. ED10 may not have the best clarity cause they are really warm sounding, but man they are loud and their bass is powerful.


----------



## B9Scrambler

It sounds like you've got a bad pair. They should be very similar in overall signature to the ED9 w/gold filters. I don't have any KZs with driver flex, but maybe I've just gotten lucky there.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cowculator said:


> Is the HDS2 on aliexpress a real deal? I saw the pics one of the reviewer posted and it is not HDS2.
> 
> The reason I am asking is because HDS2 is not found anywhere in the mother ship (Taobao) and that HDS1 was a rather recent release, would they release a second iteration that quickly to cannibalize the first?




They're legit. I posted on them probably a couple pages back. They come in the same shield case as the ED10. Still building impressions. They're a hard one for me to judge since I'm a huge fan of the Micro Ring. To be safe, get the HDS1.


----------



## Squalo

cowculator said:


> Is the HDS2 on aliexpress a real deal? I saw the pics one of the reviewer posted and it is not HDS2.
> 
> The reason I am asking is because HDS2 is not found anywhere in the mother ship (Taobao) and that HDS1 was a rather recent release, would they release a second iteration that quickly to cannibalize the first?


 
 It looks like the HDS2 is the real deal. It's on the official store. And some here has received them by now.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-HDS2-3-5mm-Micro-Ring-Metal-Stereo-Noise-Isolating-In-ear-Bass-Earphone/1358152_32551387457.html
  
 Black colour ED9 (that some called ED9S) is also there, and I would suspect that it is just a paint job on the regular ED9 and would sound the same.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED9-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/32372852938.html


----------



## DaveLT

> It sounds like you've got a bad pair. They should be very similar in overall signature to the ED9 w/gold filters. I don't have any KZs with driver flex, but maybe I've just gotten lucky there.


 
  But both drivers sound exactly the same.
  
 Quote:


igor eisberg said:


> Same here. ED10 may not have the best clarity cause they are really warm sounding, but man they are loud and their bass is powerful.


 
 Are you suggesting I have no idea what "really warm" sounds like? The ED10 sounds shrill and muddy. That is NOT warm.
  
  
  
 Ok, does anyone know when the year end for aliexpress starts?


----------



## CADCAM

lesp4ul said:


> So this is my old ed3 :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 These are the ones I just ordered that said they were the Acme version...so I just got an old (but good) ED3?


----------



## B9Scrambler

> Originally Posted by *DaveLT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> But both drivers sound exactly the same.
> 
> Are you suggesting I have no idea what "really warm" sounds like? The ED10 sounds shrill and muddy. That is NOT warm.


 
  
 They have well-matched crappy drivers? Haha! I don't know man, but from the description something sounds really off.
  
 I personally don't find the ED10 warm. I find the majority of KZs earphones to be on the brighter side of things, in particular those in the ED series. Exceptions would go to the Micro Ring, HDS2, ATE....uh....can't think of any others atm.


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> They have well-matched crappy drivers? Haha! I don't know man, but from the description something sounds really off.
> 
> I personally don't find the ED10 warm. I find the majority of KZs earphones to be on the brighter side of things, in particular those in the ED series. Exceptions would go to the Micro Ring, HDS2, ATE....uh....can't think of any others atm.


 
 ZS1 is anything but bright  Bassy yet not dark. Love it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> These are the ones I just ordered that said they were the Acme version...so I just got an old (but good) ED3?


 
  
 Yuppers! The original ED3 still holds it own among the newbies, they just lack a bit of refinement. I still think they're one of the more technically capable models however (hence why I rank them above the ED9, either model). They're also arguably the most premium feeling, after the ANV which is sexy as $%^&. When you get "The Acme", I think you'll agree that it's build feels a little lackluster in comparison.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> ZS1 is anything but bright  Bassy yet not dark. Love it.


 
  
 Oh man...how could I forget the ZS1???


----------



## Ruben123

HDS1 is seriously very good. Dont hesitate, get one! Seen them as low as $6,02 inc ship on ebay.


----------



## zaovuk

Guys I need advice.I have beyerdynamic dx160 and my girl really like the sound of earphones .i wont to buy her iem so im thinking of kz. which kz you recommend but must have that similar sound signature of beyer?

RN2


----------



## CADCAM

OK got a chance to listen to my new ED3 Youth as well as the "old" ED3 that I received believing I had ordered the Acme silver...whatever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I now am switching my previous post and believe the treble is better in the old ED3 than the newer ED3Y. The youth also has some harshness to it that the ED3 doesn't seem to have. I went back and forth a bit and like the old ED3 better than the ED3Y. I think it's genre dependent though...like the old ED3 sounded great with metal the new ED3Y...not so much.
  
 I also got to listen to my spankin' new ATE-S. The stock tips are foam and I wasn't even going to try them but I'm glad I did, they sound pretty good to me.
 They are a bit dark and bassy but I just think I like the sound of the ATE-S just like I enjoy the sound of the ATE. The only thing is my canals are small and these tips are already I little uncomfortable.
  
 So overall not bad, I like the ED3 and ATE-S and the ED3Y... I'll listen to a bit more before making a final decision on.


----------



## OliverBB

Just curious are Granvela the same as KZ (like HSD1)?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

oliverbb said:


> Just curious are Granvela the same as KZ (like HSD1)?



As far as I know, Granvela is just a retailer, not a brand.


----------



## lesp4ul

"ACME perfection" has blackier glossy finish & straight plug, my old ed3 has L plug, does anyone has both iem? Any differences?






Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## OliverBB

igor eisberg said:


> As far as I know, Granvela is just a retailer, not a brand.



OK thanks I saw it listed on Amazon and wasn't sure if was a re-brand, apparently not.


----------



## DaveLT

lesp4ul said:


> "ACME perfection" has blackier glossy finish & straight plug, my old ed3 has L plug, does anyone has both iem? Any differences?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The one with the straight plug seems to be original perfection but a later version or something. The S3 (Acme perfection) has black end caps with gray or silver (blue wire for those) and a L plug. I ordered 2 so they're on their way


----------



## mebaali

@DaveLT - My experience with ED10 somewhat mirrors yours (Driver Flex part, in particular). BTW, i bought these from Ms Teresa of Aliex.
  
 Just quoting here my earlier post on ED10 for reference.
  
 Quote:


mebaali said:


> Received ED10 this morning. OOTB with stock tips (especially with the blue core tips), had driver flex on both the sides. Tried tip rolling, found Sony MH1's Medium tips to give me better fit. With this tip, driver-flex is gone for the time being (hope it stays that way). Cable is rubbery/springy one (like ATEs). The overall build quality is pretty ok (mine had its paint worn off at some parts of the body, though).
> 
> Sound Quality (with just over 4 hours of usage) - These sound to me like a repackaged EDSE. On many songs that I had tried so far, Treble appears to be bit too Metalic/Shouty/Grainy(?) for my liking. Bass quantity/quality and Mids seems pretty much similar to my EDSE. BTW, these are not as detailed as my ED9 Bronze filter and also doesn't seems to possess wider soundstage of ATEs. Reading from other users' impression on these, I hope mine is not a faulty unit. May be with more usage this sound signature may change to some extent (especially the troublesome treble part).
> 
> ...


----------



## BurntToast12

Is "KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store"
A trustable seller?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

burnttoast12 said:


> Is "KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store"
> A trustable seller?


 

 Yep.


----------



## BurntToast12

igor eisberg said:


> Yep.


 
 How fast is the shipping?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

burnttoast12 said:


> How fast is the shipping?


 

 Umm pretty slow, I think it has something to do with both "KZ Earphone Wholesale Shopping Center" and "KZ HeadSet Official FlagShip Store" are using Sweden Post (NordPost), not China Post.
  
 Correction: It has to do with the crappy post services in my country. NordPost is actually pretty quick at dispatching packages.


----------



## BurntToast12

igor eisberg said:


> Umm pretty slow, I think it has something to do with both "KZ Earphone Wholesale Shopping Center" and "KZ HeadSet Official FlagShip Store" are using Sweden Post (NordPost), not China Post.
> 
> Correction: It has to do with the crappy post services in my country. NordPost is actually pretty quick at dispatching packages.


 
 It says "AliExpress standard shipping" for me.
 Is that fast?
  
 I really don't know much about international shipping, I usually just buy things from within my country.


----------



## DaveLT

burnttoast12 said:


> It says "AliExpress standard shipping" for me.
> Is that fast?
> 
> I really don't know much about international shipping, I usually just buy things from within my country.


 
 Aliexpress standard shipping is actually faster than chinapost. My HDS1 via chinapost hasn't even turned up since the 20th.
 The ATE on the other hand came within 14 days (Stated 14-39 days yikes)


----------



## Igor Eisberg

burnttoast12 said:


> It says "AliExpress standard shipping" for me.
> Is that fast?
> 
> I really don't know much about international shipping, I usually just buy things from within my country.


 

 If the tracking number looks like HN________AE then you can track it here: http://global.cainiao.com/
 This site will provide you with an international tracking number as well:


----------



## BurntToast12

Sweet. Thanks for the help.


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> If the tracking number looks like HN________AE then you can track it here: http://global.cainiao.com/
> This site will provide you with an international tracking number as well:




Just checked that site for the fun of it since my Remax RM720 still haven't arrived. Apparently they went to Belarus instead of Canada, haha.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

b9scrambler said:


> Just checked that site for the fun of it since my Remax RM720 still haven't arrived. Apparently they went to Belarus instead of Canada, haha.


 

 Belarus? What da... 0_0


----------



## B9Scrambler

igor eisberg said:


> Belarus? What da... 0_0


 
  
 I know eh? haha


----------



## OliverBB

Can anyone compare the KZ Special Edition vs the HSD1? I already have the Sp Ed on it's way, just curious if the Hsd1 is that different to order as well. Thanks!


----------



## TwinACStacks

But what about the ED4?
  
 Jeez, before anyone gives an impression, mine will be here.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Igor Eisberg

oliverbb said:


> Can anyone compare the KZ Special Edition vs the HSD1? I already have the Sp Ed on it's way, just curious if the Hsd1 is that different to order as well. Thanks!


 

 HDS1 runs all over the EDSE. There's no comparison.
  


twinacstacks said:


> But what about the ED4?
> 
> Jeez, before anyone gives an impression, mine will be here.
> 
> ...


 

 Still on the way buddy.
  
 Picking up tomorrow 3 packages: 2 unknown and the third contains 4 Remax earphones: RM-565i, RM-575, RM-701 and RM-720i.


----------



## CADCAM

So after a weekend of listening (as much as time would allow) I've found I can't deal with memory wire, I also do not like wearing my hp's wire up. So unfortunately the ATE-S and ZS1 are out for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When I did get a good seal, after many many tips, it just wasn't worth it for me...too uncomfortable. I did enjoy the sound of the ATE-S but the fit is just too much work. 
  
 If your looking for a darker sound and like wearing your iem's wire up then the ATE-S is a good option as long as you can deal with memory wire. The ATE-S do seem to have a bit more treble than the ATE and I liked the overall sound signature but unlike the original ATE you can't wear them wire down. I never warmed up to the ZS1. 
  
 Now on to the ED3 and ED3 youth...


----------



## CADCAM

oliverbb said:


> Can anyone compare the KZ Special Edition vs the HSD1? I already have the Sp Ed on it's way, just curious if the Hsd1 is that different to order as well. Thanks!


 
 I'm impressed with the EDSE especially with my Sansa Clip. They are pretty good on the home setup also...much better than I thought. The HDS1 is also very good but the cable pisses me off crazy microphonics and springy.


----------



## ezekiel77

The springy cables drive me nuts too. Small concession for a budget 'phone. But more expensive phones like the KC06 and Fiio EX1 has them too.


----------



## fallrsk

twinacstacks said:


> But what about the ED4?
> 
> Jeez, before anyone gives an impression, mine will be here.
> 
> TWIN



Mine arrive tomorrow and my classes are cancelled to study for finals, so maybe I'll beat some others to initial review!?


----------



## OliverBB

cadcam said:


> I'm impressed with the EDSE especially with my Sansa Clip. They are pretty good on the home setup also...much better than I thought. The HDS1 is also very good but the cable pisses me off crazy microphonics and springy.


 
 Thanks, also I really like the look of the EDSE too.


----------



## OliverBB

igor eisberg said:


> HDS1 runs all over the EDSE. There's no comparison.


 
 I'll end up grabbing the HSD1 too then!


----------



## TwinACStacks

cadcam said:


> So after a weekend of listening (as much as time would allow) I've found I can't deal with memory wire, I also do not like wearing my hp's wire up. So unfortunately the ATE-S and ZS1 are out for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 I agree with you on over--ear wear. I don't like it at all. I'll take downcabling every time.
  








 TWIN


----------



## kaiteck

twinacstacks said:


> cadcam said:
> 
> 
> > So after a weekend of listening (as much as time would allow) I've found I can't deal with memory wire, I also do not like wearing my hp's wire up. So unfortunately the ATE-S and ZS1 are out for me.
> ...




I recommend getting a pair of ear guide so that it'll fit easily.
Having them over ears is actually good as it reduces microphonics and wont fall off when cable is pulled.






Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## CADCAM

kaiteck said:


> I recommend getting a pair of ear guide so that it'll fit easily.
> Having them over ears is actually good as it reduces microphonics and wont fall off when cable is pulled.


 
 I do have a couple pairs of those...will have to try them. Good idea.
  
 thanks


----------



## CADCAM

Hey guys just pulled my EDSE's out and they sound awesome...I'd like a backup pair but mine have the red driver screens. Anyone have a link to the ones with red screens? Everyone I see has the silver screens.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

cadcam said:


> Hey guys just pulled my EDSE's out and they sound awesome...I'd like a backup pair but mine have the red driver screens. Anyone have a link to the ones with red screens? Everyone I see has the silver screens.


 

 I have the EDSE/ED2 with the red meshes, and they sound bass-less.


----------



## Khalid762

If I can only get one KZ earphone, which one should i get? I like a bit of bass but not too heavy that it gives me a headache


----------



## Igor Eisberg

khalid762 said:


> If I can only get one KZ earphone, which one should i get? I like a bit of bass but not too heavy that it gives me a headache


 

 I think you'll like HDS1. Haven't heard HDS2 yet though, it's still in transit.
 ED3 Youth sounds similar, but with a deeper bass and an overall louder sound.


----------



## robvagyok

oliverbb said:


> Can anyone compare the KZ Special Edition vs the HSD1? I already have the Sp Ed on it's way, just curious if the Hsd1 is that different to order as well. Thanks!


 
 I have them both, and to me, the HDS1 has a warmer overall sound signature, with a bit more clearly defined bass
 And I hate the HDS1 cable.... it definately needs to worn over ear 'cause the crazy microphonics. The EDSE's cable is just a slightly better though....
 still prefer both of them over my ATE and ED10, these are the best KZ earphones imho


----------



## CADCAM

Anyone have a link to the ones with red screens? Everyone I see has the silver screens.
  
 Quote:


igor eisberg said:


> I have the EDSE/ED2 with the red meshes, and they sound bass-less.


 
 Hey thanks that was really helpful...


----------



## TwinACStacks

kaiteck said:


> I recommend getting a pair of ear guide so that it'll fit easily.
> Having them over ears is actually good as it reduces microphonics and wont fall off when cable is pulled.
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Been there done that thanx anyways. I still wouldn't use them. I sold a pair of Sennheiser IE8 with pure silver cables, and havi B3 Pro 1's because I couldn't deal with the over ear cables. PIA to me.
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## r2muchstuff

CadCam,
  
 I think that the silver are the older/earlier production SE.  My silver screen pair are almost a year old.  I reordered a couple of months ago and received the red screen type.
 I compared the two and did not find a noticeable difference 
  
 Edit:  Forgot to say Ali seller photos may just be old and they will actually ship red (? current) version.
  
 I too still like the SE, one of the best KZ.
  
 YMMV.
 r2


----------



## rjbell

Do you think they manufacturer there own earphones or are they just buying them in? The person i've been dealing with through the apparently official store is meant to be the ceo i just can't see it.


----------



## DaveLT

rjbell said:


> Do you think they manufacturer there own earphones or are they just buying them in? The person i've been dealing with through the apparently official store is meant to be the ceo i just can't see it.


 
 A lot of us (including me) have done a fair bit of trawling through the depths of the webs for IEMs I'm sure if it's "buying them in" we would have seen similar IEMs already but no. 
  
 Like someone said, the design is entirely from KZ. Many factories that often sub manufacture for others usually make the same IEMs for one brand as they do for another to save on tooling costs and earn more money.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Took a break from the Titan 3 and 5 after using them non-stop this weekend and decided to give the ED8 some ear time today. 

They are surprisingly good; clean treble with good extension, well defined mids, and of course, wonderful subbass. Midbass is nicely restrained so it doesn't bleed into the mids.

We're these not so stupidly massive and heavy, I could easily see them being a lot more popular.


----------



## zaovuk

zaovuk said:


> Guys I need advice.I have beyerdynamic dx160 and my girl really like the sound of earphones .i wont to buy her iem so im thinking of kz. which kz you recommend but must have that similar sound signature of beyer?
> 
> RN2


 

 any help with choosing the right kz?


----------



## fallrsk

Warning: iPhone photos ahead. You've been warned. 

Guess who!!



ED4 have arrived! Initial impressions coming shortly.


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> Warning: iPhone photos ahead. You've been warned.
> 
> Guess who!!
> 
> ...


 
 So are those really ED3's with a new type (round) vent screen in the back


----------



## fallrsk

podster said:


> So are those really ED3's with a new type (round) vent screen in the back:confused_face_2:




I personally couldn't tell ya! I have yet to pick up a pair, I may pick up the Silver Acme though. Here's another shot: 


Stock tips don't come with an internal channel so they float on the stem of the ED4, exchanged for the KZ Comply's (which are freakin awesome, I should add!) and they slid all the way down the stem, so I've got a decently deep insertion. 

OOTB Initial Impressions:
Puts on, sounds like crap out of my m2, throws onto my phone and choose Sublime radio. "Once Again" by Pressure comes on... Wait, are these KZ?
Double check, yep definitely. I keep listening and I'm fathomed by their clarity and BALANCE. What, a normal sized driver with horror bass being balanced!? I'm confused too, don't worry. 
These sound PHENOMENAL. I put them back on my m2, and threw on "abnormalize" by Ling Tosite Sigure since I know the song quite well.
Separation is amazing, there's plenty of microdetail but it's slightly veiled. TK's voice sounds so natural and true to the song, the quick strumming and distortion of the electric guitars sound awesome. I compared these to my Rock Zircons and they're damn near identical in sound, with the ED4 feeling a bit more balanced across the bass spectrum. Some more listening seems to have revealed a hyped treble, TwinACStacks might get a headache from these. Seems there's slight sibilance on loud cymbal clashes and possibly some loud, high freq. synths.

"Gula Redeux" by deadmau5 you can really feel the sub bass wobbles, and the piano shines beautifully but isn't drowned out by the background synths. The drop has amazing separation and once again, insane coherence. There's a decently wide soundstage here, honestly. Everything is just so damn coherent, and I've been ONLY listening to my HD598 lately. These compliment quite well. 

Also, switching to the stock zs1 tips (red core) it seems a bit bass heavy now. I'm also not getting as deep of an insertion with these tips, which may be giving more room to the IEM for the bass to resonate. Seems to be more sibilant now too. I'm going back to the foams.

Hope ya'll enjoyed my first ever impression/review for an OOTB.


Also about the back: the entire back is actually just for show, or atleast it would seem. The wire mesh sits atop a metal or paper backing with two vent holes on each bud, aligned vertically so that they sit above and below the round center plate.
Covering the back reduces the bass.


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> I personally couldn't tell ya! I have yet to pick up a pair, I may pick up the Silver Acme though. Here's another shot:
> 
> 
> Stock tips don't come with an internal channel so they float on the stem of the ED4, exchanged for the KZ Comply's (which are freakin awesome, I should add!) and they slid all the way down the stem, so I've got a decently deep insertion.
> ...


 
 THX Fallrsk, I feel the same about these and the only difference I'm seeing is the vents holes in the back!


----------



## fallrsk

Hmm... Podster you playin tricks on me or is that an accidental HDS1 pic? But yeah, judging by pictures the ED4 seems to be the true successor to the ED3.

The bass scales well to different songs by the way, listening to some Childish Gambino "You See Me" you get some serious horror bass, but it's all sub bass. Yet, I can get decently natural sounding drums and bass chords from instrumental music.


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> Hmm... @Podster you playin tricks on me or is that an accidental HDS1 pic? But yeah, judging by pictures the ED4 seems to be the true successor to the ED3.
> 
> The bass scales well to different songs by the way, listening to some Childish Gambino "You See Me" you get some serious horror bass, but it's all sub bass. Yet, I can get decently natural sounding drums and bass chords from instrumental music.


 

 No, I originally meant to say the HDS1's but could not get the ED3 out of my head! They are just staying to close now and I'm not sure big changes are happening between KZ releases anymore


----------



## kelvinjulio

Anyone have already compared the xiaomi hybrid with the kz ed9??
which one is better?


----------



## Lifted Andreas

kelvinjulio said:


> Anyone have already compared the xiaomi hybrid with the kz ed9??
> which one is better?




Look here - http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/665111


----------



## DaveLT

kelvinjulio said:


> Anyone have already compared the xiaomi hybrid with the kz ed9??
> which one is better?




The hybrid is dark and detail is not good. 
I would take a HDS1 anytime soon.


----------



## 1clearhead

Swapping tips for the "Xiaomi hybrids" makes a BIG difference in altering its' sound. So, don't give-up on them, yet!
  
 Even though the picture below is not the Xiaomi hybrids, these are the silicone tips I use on them.
  
 ....They are narrow-bore tips.


----------



## DaveLT

I tried it with narrow bore tips similar to the ones you have and the Sony hybrids they don't make much of a difference.


----------



## 1clearhead

Tingo FL800's are really good!.....after 50 hours, they really open up!
  
 @Igor,
  
 Did you ask for an exchange on these?
  
 They start-up sounding like the wires are crossed and 3D-like, also weird sounding with literally little bass. But, after 50 hours of burning them in they have great texture and a clear and wide soundstage. It sounds very transparent. These are great for monitoring purposes! I love these! They look identical to the originals with no sign of the Tingo logo name on the IEM.


----------



## 1clearhead

davelt said:


> I tried it with narrow bore tips similar to the ones you have and the Sony hybrids they don't make much of a difference.


 

 Try burning them in for at least 50 to 60 hours and listen again with the tips I suggested......they do get better.


----------



## DaveLT

1clearhead said:


> Try burning them in for at least 50 to 60 hours and listen again with the tips I suggested......they do get better. :etysmile:



Aren't we going off topic? I have already burned these for like 80+ hours already


----------



## Chief Stringer

kaiteck said:


> I recommend getting a pair of ear guide so that it'll fit easily.
> Having them over ears is actually good as it reduces microphonics and wont fall off when cable is pulled.
> 
> 
> ...




Thats a good idea but still hope they make a normal wire version


----------



## Horton

Is any classmate collected ZN1? I seems got a fake one? the amps is missing


----------



## Squalo

You saying someone made a fake ZN1 that looks like a ZS1 without amp and marked ZN1? :confused_face(1):

Thats not good.


----------



## DaveLT

Where is that sold?!


----------



## 1clearhead

davelt said:


> Aren't we going off topic? I have already burned these for like 80+ hours already


 

 Oops! You're definitely right! ....This is the KZ thread.


----------



## B9Scrambler

horton said:


> Is any classmate collected ZN1? I seems got a fake one? the amps is missing


 
  
 Well.....now isn't that interesting...


----------



## fallrsk

Guys, I don't think Horton is gonna understand anyone's sarcasm lol!
  
 Anyway, the ED4 is hands down the best IEM I've had the pleasure of listening to yet. If you've thought about ordering, do it. You won't be disappointed, they're a package of awesome! The bass is really dynamic, it's something else. Rap and EDM have all the sub bass you want, yet you can listen to bass guitars without over hyped sub bass.


----------



## DaveLT

My HDS1 seems to have gone missing. Shipped out on the 20th with a tracking label and been in transit since the 25th and I have no updates on it or whatsoever. Presumably lost. 
  
 (interestingly, the official KZ aliexpress store seems to be manned by an auto bot when you contact him from a previous order)


----------



## kelvinjulio

davelt said:


> The hybrid is dark and detail is not good.
> I would take a HDS1 anytime soon.


how about ed9?? Is it better than xiaomi hybrid?


----------



## Breezy

Got my HDS2. When I tried to pull the tips off, I ripped half the casing off. The driver included. There's barely any glue on it.

I've had other KZ headphones and this is the only one so fragile.


----------



## B9Scrambler

breezy said:


> Got my HDS2. When I tried to pull the tips off, I ripped half the casing off. The driver included. There's barely any glue on it.
> 
> I've had other KZ headphones and this is the only one so fragile.




Sounds like my original experience with the Micro Ring, except that had no glue at all, haha.


----------



## LuparaX2

And when I want to take my ANVs apart I have to grow plier-fingers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My QC experience with KZ has been pretty bad- ED10 wire near mic shorted; ANV had hole in rear filter; ED R1 strain relief was loose, metal mesh fell off, has channel bass imbalance (still liking them).  ATE, HDS1 have been perfect though and Micro rings are awesome sound wise if I forget the minor channel imbalance and driver flex (foam tips help).
  
 EDIT: Anyone else has the ED R1? Are ED SE/ED2 identical to the R1 (the shells are the same with red filters)?


----------



## erudite

fallrsk said:


> Guys, I don't think Horton is gonna understand anyone's sarcasm lol!
> 
> Anyway, the ED4 is hands down the best IEM I've had the pleasure of listening to yet. If you've thought about ordering, do it. You won't be disappointed, they're a package of awesome! The bass is really dynamic, it's something else. Rap and EDM have all the sub bass you want, yet you can listen to bass guitars without over hyped sub bass.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the impressions bro!
  
  
 Does anyone who's ordered the ED4 have the HDS1 as well?


----------



## chavez

luparax2 said:


> And when I want to take my ANVs apart I have to grow plier-fingers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have ED2's or EDSE with silver filters.All is fine.


----------



## ezekiel77

breezy said:


> Got my HDS2. When I tried to pull the tips off, I ripped half the casing off. The driver included. There's barely any glue on it.
> 
> I've had other KZ headphones and this is the only one so fragile.


 
  
 Oh man, and I thought they look well-built (in the style of Yamaha).


----------



## B9Scrambler

ezekiel77 said:


> Oh man, and I thought they look well-built (in the style of Yamaha).


 
  
 I think that experience will be an exception. KZ's stuff for the most part is very consistent in overall build quality. My pair in particular is very solid (though I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of their sound).


----------



## ezekiel77

b9scrambler said:


> I think that experience will be an exception. KZ's stuff for the most part if very consistent in overall build quality. My pair in particular is very solid (though I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of their sound).


 
  
 I would agree with you, my 3 pairs are holding steady. The worst case of build quality issue I had was the Ostry KC06 where they did not apply glue to the barrel of the 3.5mm jack.


----------



## dokkj

Since my KZs won't be delivered in time before I leave, should I pick up the Piston 3s in the mean time for my flight? Or just deal with the Mee M6 I've been rocking for a few years now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dokkj said:


> Since my KZs won't be delivered in time before I leave, should I pick up the Piston 3s in the mean time for my flight? Or just deal with the Mee M6 I've been rocking for a few years now.


 
  
 Piston 3 is good, but their isolation is mediocre at best. I can't see them working well for a flight.


----------



## Niyologist

I'm enjoying the KZ ATE-S quite a bit. It's bassy, but it also has enhanced midrange and treble.


----------



## kaiteck

Bas-whaaat 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ruben123

Cant stress enough how good the HDS1 is! It's so balanced, mildly warm, light, small, isolating well and the sound is really (budget) HiFi -for as far as "HiFi" exists at all. The bass could be a little bit less, but is not too much at all at any genre Ive thrown them at. The highs and mids... theyre so great! Warm and revealing, missing not any detail, and at the same time all but shrill, harsh or fatiguing. At the $6 I got them they are a no brainer!
  
 They have heard:
 Bryan Adams, Bob Dylan, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones and Mozart and I have yet to find a shortcoming.


----------



## Breezy

b9scrambler said:


> I think that experience will be an exception. KZ's stuff for the most part if very consistent in overall build quality. My pair in particular is very solid (though I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of their sound).




Yeah, my other KZ stuff are rock solid. Hope this is just a one-off instead of a design failure. I've accidentally ordered another one and due to language barriers, I couldn't cancel it in time. Let's see how that works out.


----------



## kovik

b9scrambler said:


> breezy said:
> 
> 
> > Got my HDS2. When I tried to pull the tips off, I ripped half the casing off. The driver included. There's barely any glue on it.
> ...


My too..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/IMG]


----------



## ezekiel77

Appreciating the ED9 currently. Gold nozzle. Fun bass, bright treble, level mids, able to keep up with some (not all) fast songs. Good separation compared to ED3c which can sound muddled during fast passages.


----------



## Podster

ED9 still the best $9 headphone I own, also use the gold filter


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> Guys, I don't think Horton is gonna understand anyone's sarcasm lol!
> 
> Anyway, the ED4 is hands down the best IEM I've had the pleasure of listening to yet. If you've thought about ordering, do it. You won't be disappointed, they're a package of awesome! The bass is really dynamic, it's something else. Rap and EDM have all the sub bass you want, yet you can listen to bass guitars without over hyped sub bass.


 
 Glad to hear this fallrsk, my ED4's are on their way as well as a pair of DT5's. Not sure if the DT5 is any good or not but I sure love the way they look, black with red tips and that brass ring with the Chinese writing on it is killer


----------



## EISENbricher

horton said:


> Is any classmate collected ZN1? I seems got a fake one? the amps is missing


 
 That's why I always get stuff from the official store. Let the cost be slightly more, but no compromise with quality!


----------



## TwinACStacks

My ED4s are in Chicago Sort on the 14th on their way to Detroit area. That ED4 impression is music to my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

kovik said:


> My too..
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh man....that's sucks


----------



## kovik

b9scrambler said:


> kovik said:
> 
> 
> > My too..
> ...




Dealer returned me the money...


----------



## DangerClose

niyologist said:


> I'm enjoying the KZ ATE-S quite a bit. It's bassy, but it also has enhanced midrange and treble.


 
  
 The KZ ATE-S has enhanced bass, enhanced midrange, and enhanced treble?


----------



## raybone0566

dangerclose said:


> The KZ ATE-S has enhanced bass, enhanced midrange, and enhanced treble?


Yes, ate-s is bass enhanced, a bit to much for my tastes. I've noticed it sacrifices some of the detail retrieval as I was going back an forth with hds1.


----------



## Niyologist

dangerclose said:


> The KZ ATE-S has enhanced bass, enhanced midrange, and enhanced treble?




More like enhanced bass and enhanced upper midrange/lower treble. I like them far better than the Edifier H210.


----------



## mauriciocg

Just received my ATES
  
 Really, really surprised!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 It's my first KZ.
 3rd iem since my AT CK32 that accompanying me since 2007 till today.
 Very surprised with sound for just US$10.
  
 Using original foam tips, anothers are too big or too small and hard silicone
  
 Will put to burn-in to see if it show me something (don't need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) more!
  
 On my iPhone 6 for now, sounds almost like my AudioTech (what is very good for me), maybe something better i guess. But on my macbook Pro?!?!?!?  LOL It's Stunning (for the price).
  
 Just 16 days to arrive in my house (Brazil) ultra fast for my country!!!
 Bought at Easy Earphones store


----------



## kaiteck

mauriciocg said:


> Just received my ATES
> 
> Really, really surprised!!!
> 
> ...


 
 what AudioTech model u use


----------



## mauriciocg

kaiteck said:


> what AudioTech model u use


 

 As I said, an old CK32


----------



## andione1983

So far.... I have ed9 and Ed11.. Ed11 aren't leaving my ears... Love them Ed9 are good too 

Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


----------



## EYEdROP

Which of the KZ IEMs series are the most uncolored, neutral and clinical sounding?
  
 I am a big fan etymotic type sound signature. Im looking for bass that goes deep and tight but not at all emphasized, truly excellent mids with proper timbre, smooth and easy going treble, and a soundstage with pinpoint accurate imaging, not wide and stretched out. Good isolation is important.   
  
 My favorite budget headphones so far are easily the Monoprice 8320 (9927). The bass is just right for me. Goes deep and all low frequency information is there but not highlighted. The mids are slightly tin can sounding, but still forward and clear with reasonable timbre. Very good for the price. The treble drops off early and is nothing special but atleast it isnt harsh or tiring. The soundstage is surprisingly wide. Imaging is okay, nothing too great. Musicality and emotion is still good despite being so balanced. Isolation is not very good unfortunately.
  
 Ive tried the Xiaomi Pistons 2.0 and found them too V shaped in sound signature.
  
 Also tried the phillips she3590 and again too V shaped.  
  
 Tried the monoprice 9396, they were fairly balanced but veiled and muffled sounding.  
  
 I hope people find this post useful and can help me out too...


----------



## Ruben123

eyedrop said:


> Which of the KZ IEMs series are the most uncolored, neutral and clinical sounding?
> 
> I am a big fan etymotic type sound signature. Im looking for bass that goes deep and tight but not at all emphasized, truly excellent mids with proper timbre, smooth and easy going treble, and a soundstage with pinpoint accurate imaging, not wide and stretched out. Good isolation is important.
> 
> ...




Kz anv but I personally found the treble to be too harsh and the bass just a tiny but too much. Ed9 and hds1, particularly ed9 is much more like 8320.


----------



## sgl54

ruben123 said:


> Cant stress enough how good the HDS1 is! It's so balanced, mildly warm, light, small, isolating well and the sound is really (budget) HiFi -for as far as "HiFi" exists at all. The bass could be a little bit less, but is not too much at all at any genre Ive thrown them at. The highs and mids... theyre so great! Warm and revealing, missing not any detail, and at the same time all but shrill, harsh or fatiguing. At the $6 I got them they are a no brainer!
> 
> They have heard:
> Bryan Adams, Bob Dylan, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, Rolling Stones and Mozart and I have yet to find a shortcoming.



Thanks for adding the artists, it helps ( me anyway) validate what your hearing. Nice depth and breadth in your listing ( and testing) I'm still waiting for mine. Thought they'd be here last week. This is is the first Kz I bought based on waiting for a price threshhold, wish I'd ordered them right off the bat.


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Glad to hear this fallrsk, my ED4's are on their way as well as a pair of DT5's. Not sure if the DT5 is any good or not but I sure love the way they look, black with red tips and that brass ring with the Chinese writing on it is killer:tongue_smile:



The Dt5's sure haven't gotten much a following. I keep looking at them thinking they're a nice solid design. Aside from the writting not particularly flashy. Which keeps bringing me back to the idea they should make nice noise. Given I'm pretty much a function over form kinda guy, I just like them.


----------



## TwinACStacks

Just Got My ED4's in. Rolled my 5 usual suspect tips, they don't appear to be really tip sensitive. Went with the Stock Larges.
  
 SOUND:
  
 Impressive OOTB. Lots of Bass, Lots of Bass extension, maybe a little bloated to early to tell yet, didn't detect any bleed over into low mids. Mids are nice and manage to project vocals over massive bass quite well.  OH...... and plenty of Treble. Did KZ change their House Sound? These aren't Dark, but fairly well balanced with an emphasis on low end. HMMMmmmm.... Good detail as well.
  
 Should be interesting to see others opinions.
  
 I think these are going to be a KZ Flagship, just from a quick listen, mind you.
  
 BURN 'EM IN BOYS!!!
  








 TWIN


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks Good to hear they are getting positive reviews. I contacted KZ about them a couple weeks back. They're not a flagship, but a mid-range model.


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> The Dt5's sure haven't gotten much a following. I keep looking at them thinking they're a nice solid design. Aside from the writting not particularly flashy. Which keeps bringing me back to the idea they should make nice noise. Given I'm pretty much a function over form kinda guy, I just like them.


 

 We will see, I do like the way they look and KZ seems to think they rock
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of course Twin is already raising the roof on the ED4's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems they have had many flagships, like every other release
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 HDS2's are coming in with my DT5's which I ordered together but as you know I've yet to have a pair unseat my trusty ED9's and I have and have challenged them with ATE, ED3 "Perfection's", ED10, ED11, HDS1's, ZN1's and the ZS1's! Going to give the HDS2's and DT5's a chance but like the 7 before them I just don't see it happening. The ED9's just have everything for my taste SQ wise and if I could complain about anything with them it would be the fact if they ever fail I could use them as a couple of paper weights
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I wear them over ear which really relieves that weight issue for me. I do feel that I'm going to stop here on the budget iem's as I'll have 10 pair of KZ's not to mention the ones I bought doubles of plus Zircon's, VJJ's Fidue's, etc. etc.
  
 Have my next level up stuff in my Havi B3, Shure SE215's, FiiO Ex1's and Trinity Trio and soon to be Atlas! Time to quit playing around and just get those Custom K10's and AK rig and be done with portable, had to do the same thing with home gears years ago and I'm good with that and I need to get good with this. Gotta do it now as I'll have two in college at the same time come five years from now and it will be here like tomorrow
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 B9, what iem's does KZ consider to be their Flagship/s?


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> B9, what iem's does KZ consider to be their Flagship/s?


 
  
 The ZN1 is their current flagship, or so is my understanding. That's probably followed up by the ZS1 and then I have no idea what, haha. They've had such a crazy collection of releases. Off hand, released this year alone, I can think of the HDS1, HDS2, ED10, ED9, ED3 "Ye Olde Acme", ZN1, ZS1, ED3-S, ATE, ATE-S uhh....I'm sure there are more. Still...that's intense.


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> We will see, I do like the way they look and KZ seems to think they rock:blink: Of course Twin is already raising the roof on the ED4's:eek: Seems they have had many flagships, like every other release:rolleyes: HDS2's are coming in with my DT5's which I ordered together but as you know I've yet to have a pair unseat my trusty ED9's and I have and have challenged them with ATE, ED3 "Perfection's", ED10, ED11, HDS1's, ZN1's and the ZS1's! Going to give the HDS2's and DT5's a chance but like the 7 before them I just don't see it happening. The ED9's just have everything for my taste SQ wise and if I could complain about anything with them it would be the fact if they ever fail I could use them as a couple of paper weights And I wear them over ear which really relieves that weight issue for me. I do feel that I'm going to stop here on the budget iem's as I'll have 10 pair of KZ's not to mention the ones I bought doubles of plus Zircon's, VJJ's Fidue's, etc. etc.
> 
> Have my next level up stuff in my Havi B3, Shure SE215's, FiiO Ex1's and Trinity Trio and soon to be Atlas! Time to quit playing around and just get those Custom K10's and AK rig and be done with portable, had to do the same thing with home gears years ago and I'm good with that and I need to get good with this. Gotta do it now as I'll have two in college at the same time come five years from now and it will be here like tomorrow
> 
> B9, what iem's does KZ consider to be their Flagship/s?




Yep Kz always say they rock and of course have mega bass. Not forgetting that everything other thing is the flagship, ( don't roll your eyes at me! )don't you just love marketing? I keep waiting for Kz to initiate a "flagship" line forget the hype. Or is that the hype? I wonder if that marketing works or do they just like everyone else? On no I must be getting old! I know what you mean by next level up, somewhat covered that as well, Puro, NHT, OM, Havi etc which I enjoy as well. I every once in awhile start to catch the CIEM bug but have resisted. While they would sound wonderful I know I would miss the fun of the journey. I can definately understand the expense of education 4 children in all and the last 2 still at home both in college" Then maybe I can next level everything, CIEMs, a car with turbos things like that, but till then it's all good fun . Have you ever thought if there's only one flagship only 1 person can pilot it?


----------



## fallrsk

EYEdROP I've heard the ANV are the most neutral, I'd say that's followed by HDS1 or ED4 as that's the most "neutral" KZ I have, which blows the ED10, ZS1 and edges out the Rock Zircon when used with the KZ Comply's (look for the ones with the pladtix centers).


----------



## TwinACStacks

Guys, I'm using "Flagship" as OUR listening reference. I'm doubting KZ would refer to these as their Best, especially at their pricepoint. Although there aren't many in the KZ line with "High Res Audio" printed on the side. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That has to count for somethin' don't it?
  








 TWIN


----------



## TwinACStacks

fallrsk said:


> @EYEdROP I've heard the ANV are the most neutral, I'd say that's followed by HDS1 or ED4 as that's the most "neutral" KZ I have, which blows the ED10, ZS1 and edges out the Rock Zircon when used with the KZ Comply's (look for the ones with the pladtix centers).


 





 The ANV are the most Audiophile EQ of the KZ Line in my opinion. The price on the originals is nearing the $50 mark in some stores.
  








 TWIN


----------



## eklips

how do u guys do the kz-ate mod?
  
 can provide step-by-step guide? where to get the materials too?


----------



## anticute

Okay, so I'm back in the thread, been trying not to go here for a while for the obvious reasons.... 
  
 Anyway, jumped on the ED4 and HDS1, anything else noteworthy I've missed since ED10? How is the ED11, and has anyone actually received HDS2 (except that broken one, that sucks..)?


----------



## B9Scrambler

anticute said:


> Okay, so I'm back in the thread, been trying not to go here for a while for the obvious reasons....
> 
> Anyway, jumped on the ED4 and HDS1, anything else noteworthy I've missed since ED10? How is the ED11, and has anyone actually received HDS2 (except that broken one, that sucks..)?




I've got the HDS2. As much as it pains me to say this....pass on it. It's not very good. Veiled mids, no treble sparkle, boomy bass. There are some pluses, like a great soundstage, good separation and accurate stereo panning, but that's it. The overall sound itself is pretty underwhelming, especially considering KZs other new releases. Of course, this is all just my opinion.

Others may love the HDS2. I just went in with very high expectations given their other tip-mounted micro dd (Micro Ring).


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I've got the HDS2. As much as it pains me to say this....pass on it. It's not very good. Veiled mids, no treble sparkle, boomy bass. There are some pluses, like a great soundstage, good separation and accurate stereo panning, but that's it. The overall sound itself is pretty underwhelming, especially considering KZs other new releases. Of course, this is all just my opinion.
> 
> Others may love the HDS2. I just went in with very high expectations given their other tip-mounted micro dd (Micro Ring).


 

 Bummer, mine have not even arrived yet and the word veiled totally bums me out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Being the big ED9 fan that I am these are just going to stay packed and gifted to someone who would not know the difference in Havi B3 and stock iPhone buds


----------



## fallrsk

podster said:


> Bummer, mine have not even arrived yet and the word veiled totally bums me out Being the big ED9 fan that I am these are just going to stay packed and gifted to someone who would not know the difference in Havi B3 and stock iPhone buds:eek:



*opens gift wrapping"
"New earphones, aw golly gee! Thanks Podster!"
*puts in ears* *snaps in half*
"da fuq m8?"

LOL! I can see it now.. 

anticute I'd say you didn't miss much with the ED10, with the ED11 being more the same than different from it. ED4 and HDS1 seem to be the only hype worthy phones in the lineup currently.. And maybe the ate/zs1/zn1's. I couldn't stand the ZS1 sound, sounds like a wide open butt tootin away.


----------



## joemama

podster said:


> Bummer, mine have not even arrived yet and the word veiled totally bums me out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They are nice looking though


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> *opens gift wrapping"
> "New earphones, aw golly gee! Thanks Podster!"
> *puts in ears* *snaps in half*
> "da fuq m8?"
> ...


 

 Right! LOL Guess I'll have to consider the friendship level before I send them on
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So harsh on those ZS1's Fall
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Believe at first listen I was like "da fug m8"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tip change, 30 hours of burn and a little EQ treatment and they are not all that bad
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have juiced them and played around with DAP EQ but not quite got to the ZN1 sound, the engineers really tweaked that box/amp on the ZN1's and if I were KZ it would be my Flagship model for sure, even with the swinging pendulum


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Bummer, mine have not even arrived yet and the word veiled totally bums me out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The ED9 eat 'em for breakfast and save the bones for a late night snack. They are supremely disappointing for me.
  


fallrsk said:


> *opens gift wrapping"
> "New earphones, aw golly gee! Thanks Podster!"
> *puts in ears* *snaps in half*
> "da fuq m8?"
> ...


 
  
 That would be hilarious, but very unfortunate 
  
 The ED10 is pretty good! I just don't get the hate towards them. They're very similar to the ED9 (gold) but with quicker bass and cleaner treble. I also find them more natural sounding. The ED3 Acme is pretty dang good. It can proudly stand up there with the HDS1.
  
 ZS1 is an acquired taste....I love em


----------



## anticute

Yeah, I liked the ED9 too, and ATE. ED10 aren't all that bad either, to be honest..
  
 Oh well, sounds like I didn't miss much else than those two I already ordered. ZS1 and ZN1 look good, but since I had a bit of fit issues with ATE (could never get them to not stick out too much), and that I'm not really that big of a fan of wearing phones over-ear, I'm suspecting that they wouldn't be my cup of tea anyway.. 
  
 Thanks for filling me in guys! Can't wait for the HDS1, they _really_ look like they could tick all my boxes..


----------



## B9Scrambler

anticute said:


> Thanks for filling me in guys! Can't wait for the HDS1, they _really_ look like they could tick all my boxes..


 
  
  The HDS1 are fantastic. I'm certain you'll enjoy them.


----------



## sgl54

My HDS1's arrived today, right off the bat I will say I prefer the white ones ( ordered silver and white ). They're definately tiny and " cute" yep cute. Fortunately they sound good right oob and I'm looking forward to how the sound resolves over time. I know it's a touchy subject but I haven't had a Kz yet that didn't improve over time. Even their " flagship" ( yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus and Kz has a flagship, it's the Zn1) improved markedly over time. But these remind me a little of the EDSE which I really like so we shall see.Fortunatly I didn't order the HDS2 the furthest down the veiled path I'll go are my ATE's( I had been adding Kz's to the Christmas stockings, but Kz's I like ) but I could go a step further and use Kz's I don't like instead of lumps of coal! Thanks Podster.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Guys, you might notice I stay relatively quiet when a product doesn't impress me, but I make sure to speak up when a earphone deserves recognition. 

The KZ ATE-S has incredible sound. I have to compare to the original ATE, but from what I hear I'm thinking it is more extended and tighter sounding. I'll make sure to report back once I can do comparisons. 

I don't necessarily care for the implementation of memory wire into the design, but can deal with it. It just takes a little longer to snug them into place.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> Guys, you might notice I stay relatively quiet when a product doesn't impress me, but I make sure to speak up when a earphone deserves recognition.
> 
> The KZ ATE-S has incredible sound. I have to compare to the original ATE, but from what I hear I'm thinking it is more extended and tighter sounding. I'll make sure to report back once I can do comparisons.
> 
> I don't necessarily care for the implementation of memory wire into the design, but can deal with it. It just takes a little longer to snug them into place.




I look forward to your impressions! I like the original ATE quite a bit. My particular pair is very neutral, if not a little safe/dull sounding. Would love to hear how the ATE-S stacks up against them.


----------



## DaveLT

Jesus the KZ S3 is everything I want in an IEM! 
subdued but tight quick bass, smooth mids but slightly forward presentation and warm but well controlled treble. Zero veiling!
It's also got a good soundstage and decent separation.
 
TDLR; Freaking amazing. Everyone should have one! 
 
(This is what I use to hear for the clarity of any head gear : https://soundcloud.com/nguy-n-c-351436685/loveless-world Any decent detailing IEM can hear all the sparkles. Of course I have the FLAC version on my computer)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8-9wFdQpOFsOXptRkNGcmJXX00/view?usp=docslist_api more media of mine. You should hear strumming all throughout the song if detail is excellent


----------



## Podster

Are they the "ACME's" or Perfections?


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> Jesus the KZ S3 is everything I want in an IEM!
> subdued but tight quick bass, smooth mids but slightly forward presentation and warm but well controlled treble. Zero veiling!
> It's also got a good soundstage and decent separation.
> 
> ...


-
"TDLR; Freaking amazing. Everyone should have one! " If I had a pair of Kz's for everytime someone said that! ( wait a minute I do! )


----------



## DaveLT

podster said:


> Are they the "ACME's" or Perfections?


 
 S3. Acmes in silver/gray


sgl54 said:


> -
> "TDLR; Freaking amazing. Everyone should have one! " If I had a pair of Kz's for everytime someone said that! ( wait a minute I do! )


 I actually ordered 2


----------



## prosunza

Can anyone plz suggest me which model of  kz that has most neutral sound ,detailed and large sound stage ? I just ordered EDSE which sound really nice for my taste but it's quite narrow
  
 Thanks in advance
  
 Cheers.
  
 PS. I prefer over ear wearing style like SHURE , WESTONE


----------



## B9Scrambler

prosunza said:


> Can anyone plz suggest me which model of  kz that has most neutral sound ,detailed and large sound stage ? I just ordered EDSE which sound really nice for my taste but it's quite narrow
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> ...




ANV is one of the best for soundstage, and you can easily mod them for cable over ear wear. If you can find them at a good price, go for it. 

Otherwise....ED9 with the brass filter? The ATE models are some of the only KZ models with an over ear design (Z series are not balanced), but they might be too bassy. My release models are very neutral, but they seem to be an exception.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

davelt said:


> S3. Acmes in silver/gray


 
  
 Ordered them as well! Let's the what the hype's all about.


----------



## prosunza

b9scrambler said:


> ANV is one of the best for soundstage, and you can easily mod them for cable over ear wear. If you can find them at a good price, go for it.
> 
> Otherwise....ED9 with the brass filter? The ATE models are some of the only KZ models with an over ear design (Z series are not balanced), but they might be too bassy. My release models are very neutral, but they seem to be an exception.


 

 how do i mod the cable to wear over ear? Is there any guide step by step ? Just a quickly look at the store
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-KZ-ANV-mobile-phone-earphones-without-microphone-wire-heatshrinked-in-ear-headset-earphones-high/1246446_2019560660.html
  
 EPV01 = ANV right?


----------



## anticute

Those are not KZ ANV. They should look something like http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ANV-KZ-ANV-Updated-Alloy-14mm-Moving-Coil-Dynamic-Balance-Bass-HIFI-Rock-Music/32334188808.html
  
 Never got quite hooked on them, and others in the thread know more about different sellers etc..


----------



## prosunza

Hmm i'm so confused . KZ launches too many models LOL . Alright, which model of kz has the similar sound signature like Shure SE535?


----------



## DaveLT

prosunza said:


> Hmm i'm so confused . KZ launches too many models LOL . Alright, which model of kz has the similar sound signature like Shure SE535?


 
 That's a QKZ not a KZ.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

davelt said:


> That's a QKZ not a KZ.


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-KZ-ANV-mobile-phone-earphones-without-microphone-wire-heatshrinked-in-ear-headset-earphones-high/1246446_2019560660.html
  
 It's not QKZ (there isn't such brand). This is Hoco EPV01. Has nothing to do with KZ. It has to be a mistake by the seller.


----------



## DaveLT

igor eisberg said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-KZ-ANV-mobile-phone-earphones-without-microphone-wire-heatshrinked-in-ear-headset-earphones-high/1246446_2019560660.html
> 
> It's not QKZ (there isn't such brand). This is Hoco EPV01. Has nothing to do with KZ. It has to be a mistake by the seller.


 
 It's the retailer's own brand. _Re-badging_
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/QKZ-C6-Sports-Headphones-Bass-Ear-Hook-Headset-Sports-in-ear-Earphones-Running-With-Microphone-For/1246446_32517536406.html
 This for example is the Tuna S6/Cosonic W1.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

davelt said:


> It's the retailer's own brand. _Re-badging_
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/QKZ-C6-Sports-Headphones-Bass-Ear-Hook-Headset-Sports-in-ear-Earphones-Running-With-Microphone-For/1246446_32517536406.html
> This for example is the Tuna S6/Cosonic W1.


 

 Not exactly. Sellers on AliExpress do that so the original manufacturer couldn't find their product being sold without their consent.
 Each AliExpress seller must ask permission to resell the factory's products.
 OR they can just sell it under a different name so the factory doesn't know about it.
 This is not an instance of re-branding. You will get the original product in the original box. You won't see anything related to "QKZ" or "Quality Knowledge Zenith" on the product or its box.


----------



## sgl54

igor eisberg said:


> Not exactly. Sellers on AliExpress do that so the original manufacturer couldn't find their product being sold without their consent.
> Each AliExpress seller must ask permission to resell the factory's products.
> OR they can just sell it under a different name so the factory doesn't know about it.
> This is not an instance of re-branding. You will get the original product in the original box. You won't see anything related to "QKZ" or "Quality Knowledge Zenith" on the product or its box.



Thanks, nice explaination. While it was clear the products seemed to be unadulerated Kz releases, the concept felt well just "off" I had wondered what their stratagy was. I never felt compelled to order from them but then I try to avoid that subtle mass marketing manipulation chicanary . Anyway once again nice explination


----------



## B9Scrambler

prosunza said:


> how do i mod the cable to wear over ear? Is there any guide step by step ? Just a quickly look at the store
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-shipping-KZ-ANV-mobile-phone-earphones-without-microphone-wire-heatshrinked-in-ear-headset-earphones-high/1246446_2019560660.html
> 
> EPV01 = ANV right?




Glad others piped in about that link 

I'm at work right now, but when I get home I can post how to mod them. I think someone else posted it earlier in the thread (Twinacstacks maybe?). With a bit of digging you should be able to find it.


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> Glad others piped in about that link
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is this the right one? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-High-End-KZ-ANV-Enthusiast-HIFI-In-ear-Earbuds-Earphone-Noise-Isolating-Headphone-For/32446543269.html It's going for about 20$ on taobao if the shops can be trusted. The ANV is now a rare find.
  
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=43636301593&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail


----------



## raybone0566

Got my Ed-4 today, these things are really good. Very clear sounding with plenty detail


----------



## Niyologist

The ATE-S is getting very addictive. I can't stop listening to them. I haven't listened to my Titan 1 in a week.


----------



## TwinACStacks

raybone0566 said:


> Got my Ed-4 today, these things are really good. Very clear sounding with plenty detail


 





 Yes. I was impressed OOTB. Let you know in about 13 hrs. On my first real listen.  I got 37 of Burn on them right now....
  








 TWIN


davelt said:


> Is this the right one? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-High-End-KZ-ANV-Enthusiast-HIFI-In-ear-Earbuds-Earphone-Noise-Isolating-Headphone-For/32446543269.html It's going for about 20$ on taobao if the shops can be trusted. The ANV is now a rare find.
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=43636301593&ns=1&abbucket=11#detail


 





 Yep Dave. Those look to be the real deal. Not a bad price considering I've seen some passing the $50 mark.
  








 TWIN


----------



## fallrsk

So.. Who's the trusted shop for the ED3 S3? I can't seem to find a good one on Ali.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

I ordered here: http://s.aliexpress.com/QRJFN3Yn
He shipped out pretty fast, I just ordered 2 days ago though.


----------



## The Apostle

Just looking to confirm. Is QKZ an imitation KZ brand? Or is it just a different line within KZ?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

the apostle said:


> Just looking to confirm. Is QKZ an imitation KZ brand? Or is it just a different line within KZ?



Neither. It's a pseudo-brand which a store on AliExpress uses to sell products of different brands without mentioning the original brands behind them. QKZ will not appear on the product itself. It might be a selling strategy, but most likely the seller is just unauthorized to sell the items thus he masks them with a pseudo-brand so they don't appear in search results.


----------



## The Apostle

Interesting... I've seen them labeled KZ, QKZ, (Q) QKZ, and I've also seen them with Hoko and Beevo written on them. This Ali Express stuff is for the Birds. LOL. Where does one even start to recognize a seller that has legitimate merchandise?


----------



## Igor Eisberg

the apostle said:


> Interesting... I've seen them labeled KZ, QKZ, (Q) QKZ, and I've also seen them with Hoko and Beevo written on them.


 

 Hoco and beevo are the actual Chinese brands...
  
 Hoco: http://www.hococase.com/series/electronic/earphone/
 beevo: http://beevo.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008847243097/Homepage.htm
  


the apostle said:


> Where does one even start to recognize a seller that has legitimate merchandise?


 
  
 I'm not really sure, I'm just a risk taker. Anyway I trust the AliExpress Buyer's Protection. I'm a A4 member, so I earned their trust as well. I can usually buy safely, on the worst occasion I'll get the money back.


----------



## The Apostle

Gotcha... So the Hocco EPV01 is the KZ ED... But then there is the KZ ED, KZ EDR1, KZ EDR and the Special Edition. Lol.. 

But they all look exactly the same.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

the apostle said:


> Gotcha... So the Hocco EPV01 is the KZ ED... But then there is the KZ ED, KZ EDR1, KZ EDR and the Special Edition. Lol..
> 
> But they all look exactly the same.



Huh? Hoco EPV01 is not KZ ED and they don't even look related...
EDR and EDR1 are mistakes by sellers, they all refer to ED2/EDSE.


----------



## sgl54

There are subtle diffrences in the Kz's and a blanket statement on models, while very helpful doesn't quite filter to specific models.My suggestion is, (if someone is new to the Kz line) is to simply ask the thread ( provide a link if possible) someone will always get back to you. Sure it would be easy for me to say read the thread, but that's never as easy as it sound especially with this thread. Plus there isn't an over abundence of pictures for identification.


----------



## DaveLT

igor eisberg said:


> Huh? Hoco EPV01 is not KZ ED and they don't even look related...
> EDR and EDR1 are mistakes by sellers, they all refer to ED2/EDSE.




Their official taobao shop has the EDR1 and the ED2/EDSE. 
EDR on the hand...


----------



## Igor Eisberg

davelt said:


> Their official taobao shop has the EDR1 and the ED2/EDSE.
> EDR on the hand...


 
  
 Still, my main point Hoco and KZ are unrelated, the rest is history.


----------



## kaiteck

hisoundfi said:


> Guys, you might notice I stay relatively quiet when a product doesn't impress me, but I make sure to speak up when a earphone deserves recognition.
> 
> The KZ ATE-S has incredible sound. I have to compare to the original ATE, but from what I hear I'm thinking it is more extended and tighter sounding. I'll make sure to report back once I can do comparisons.
> 
> I don't necessarily care for the implementation of memory wire into the design, but can deal with it. It just takes a little longer to snug them into place.




I realized they provide better foam eartips as well!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## Squalo

I'm not sure if anyone has tried both EDSE and EDR1. The new EDR1 looks just like the EDSE, but it's likely to sound different. Not sure if there is some way to tell them apart. EDR1 is also cheaper so there's the risk of getting the EDR1 if ordering the EDSE...
  
 The R1 is completely different from the EDR1, blue EP 630/CX300-looking thing...
  
 Don't think there is an EDR, it's the ED1, ED2, EDSE, EDR1...
  
 The more they release, the more they confuse!


----------



## DaveLT

squalo said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has tried both EDSE and EDR1. The new EDR1 looks just like the EDSE, but it's likely to sound different. Not sure if there is some way to tell them apart. EDR1 is also cheaper so there's the risk of getting the EDR1 if ordering the EDSE...
> 
> The R1 is completely different from the EDR1, blue EP 630/CX300-looking thing...
> 
> ...


 
 ED1 is NOT in the same group. ED2, EDSE, EDR1 is. As for the R1 I don't think many here have heard of it.
  
 But what I do know is that the EDR1 sounds pretty good. Could be the color of their shields.


----------



## rdsu

What is the sound signature of KZ S3?

Thanks


----------



## DaveLT

rdsu said:


> What is the sound signature of KZ S3?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Neutral; But fantastic.


----------



## The Apostle

Thanks guys... I do try and read before I post. I have read probably 50 of the 550 pages of this thread. The models are a bit confusing, and from the pics I have seen on AE a lot of them look exactly the same. 

Maybe the EPV01 I saw that looked like the KZ was marked wrong by one if those sellers. I am going G to purchase a pair of KZ's so I'll post a link for confirmation before I do.

Again, thanks for the feedback.


----------



## B9Scrambler

> I am going G to purchase a pair of KZ's so I'll post a link for confirmation before I do.
> 
> Again, thanks for the feedback.


 
  
 Good call. Finding exactly what you want on Aliexpress can be a bit of a chore, haha.


----------



## The Apostle

I know these will all sound different but here is what I am looking at.... Ate these all what they appear to be? I tried to go with sellers that had the most sales / best ratings. 

KZ ED9 Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HiFi Earphone With Microphone Transparent Sound
http://s.aliexpress.com/2QrmAV3e

New Arrival KZ ED11 Headphones Earbuds Original KZ Earphone Auriculares ED11 Headset In Ear Stereo Earphone Fone De Ouvido KZ10 http://s.aliexpress.com/2Mva6Bnm

KZ ED Special Edition Gold Plated Housing Double Magnets Drivers Noise Isolating HD HiFi Earphone Headphones High Sensitivity
http://s.aliexpress.com/fIrmyAN7

KZ ATE S Copper Driver Ear Hook HiFi In Ear Earphone Sport Headphones For Running With Foam Eartips With Microphone http://s.aliexpress.com/2AZfAvaa


----------



## sgl54

the apostle said:


> I know these will all sound different but here is what I am looking at.... Ate these all what they appear to be? I tried to go with sellers that had the most sales / best ratings.
> 
> KZ ED9 Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HiFi Earphone With Microphone Transparent Sound
> http://s.aliexpress.com/2QrmAV3e
> ...



The only one that looks incorrect is the last, the ATE S. What is pictured is the first generation of the ATE, the biggest tells are the metal reliefs as the wire enters the earpiece the "s" has red plastic inserts. The "s" also has memory wire over the ear. While a good phone, comfortable but it's a bit veiled so the signature is different then the "s". But your doing great so far, just takes time.


----------



## fallrsk

Hey The Apostle I haven't checked your links but to make your life easier, go find all those phones from Shenzhen HCKexin. Teresa is freakin awesome! 
http://m.aliexpress.com/store/storeHome.htm?storeNo=1825606&tracelog=store2mobilestore


----------



## B9Scrambler

@The Apostle You might find* this post *helpful. Content is a little out of date but the images should help confirm which model is which.


----------



## Captaintoto

I buy the HDS1, but i don't understand if the ED3 youth edition are better or not....
 (sorry, i just a litle frenchie lost in translation....  )


----------



## B9Scrambler

horton said:


> Is any classmate collected ZN1? I seems got a fake one? the amps is missing


 
That good sir is apparently the ZN1 mini. Not a fake after all. Just a limited release model with apparently only 2,000 being made. Apparently KZ took feedback about the EQ box seriously. Very curious to know what they sound like vs. the ZS1 and original ZN1.


----------



## B9Scrambler

captaintoto said:


> I buy the HDS1, but i don't understand if the ED3 youth edition are better or not....
> (sorry, i just a litle frenchie lost in translation....  )


 

 They're both quite good. The HDS1 is pretty balanced but with a bit of a mid-bass boost. The ED3 Youth is much more bassy with rolled off treble. Both have great mids and nice clarity. Can't go wrong with either. If you like lots of bass, I say go with the ED3. If you prefer a more balanced sound, HDS1.


----------



## Squalo

How would that ZN1 mini differ from the ZS1 then ?     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Or did they put different drivers in the ZN1 and ZS1 (so the ZS1 isn't a ZN1 without the amp) ?


----------



## rdsu

davelt said:


> Neutral; But fantastic.



Great! Exactly what I want!

Already ordered one... 

Thanks


----------



## sgl54

Morning all ( well it's morning here) does anyone in Kz land own the Kz ie80 look alike. They have always been at that $29.00 usd price point do imagine not many are floating around. But they are one of those Kz's that have interested me since they came out. Thanks in advance


----------



## The Apostle

fallrsk said:


> Hey The Apostle I haven't checked your links but to make your life easier, go find all those phones from Shenzhen HCKexin. Teresa is freakin awesome!
> http://m.aliexpress.com/store/storeHome.htm?storeNo=1825606&tracelog=store2mobilestore




Thanks... Lots of good stuff on her store page. Think I'll order a set of KZ TX as well since they are only $8.




b9scrambler said:


> @The Apostle
> You might find *this post* helpful. Content is a little out of date but the images should help confirm which model is which.




Appreciate the info. I'll take a look.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> That good sir is apparently the ZN1 mini. Not a fake after all. Just a limited release model with apparently only 2,000 being made. Apparently KZ took feedback about the EQ box seriously. Very curious to know what they sound like vs. the ZS1 and original ZN1.


 
 Now that's very cool,I hadn't seen these before. I wonder if it sounds like the Zs1 or the ZN1 with amp/eq section off? No memory wire looks like, well possibly something I should have anyway.Thanks B9Scrambler, your always just chuck full of information!


----------



## Captaintoto

b9scrambler said:


> They're both quite good. The HDS1 is pretty balanced but with a bit of a mid-bass boost. The ED3 Youth is much more bassy with rolled off treble. Both have great mids and nice clarity. Can't go wrong with either. If you like lots of bass, I say go with the ED3. If you prefer a more balanced sound, HDS1.


 

 Thanks a lot!
 I'd rather balanced and clear sound than extra bass.
 So, i suppose i made the good choice.


----------



## fallrsk

Apostle seems quite the adventurer, going to buy a random allotment of KZ's rather than standard ED9/ED10/ZN/ZS/ED3/HDS orders.


----------



## The Apostle

Not sure I'd consider 2 pairs of sub $10 IEM's an "allotment" :rolleyes:

Plus, the ED9 was on my short list. Scroll ^^^^^^^


----------



## sgl54

fallrsk said:


> Apostle seems quite the adventurer, going to buy a random allotment of KZ's rather than standard ED9/ED10/ZN/ZS/ED3/HDS orders.



Definately, but each of those is a good solid choice from the current/recent Kz offerings. Still awaitimg the new ATE's but amoung the others the only one I don't use much is the 11. I really think to be safe a "Z" class Kz needs to be added by preference the Zn1's. That aside it's a great start.


----------



## DaveLT

sgl54 said:


> Definately, but each of those is a good solid choice from the current/recent Kz offerings. Still awaitimg the new ATE's but amoung the others the only one I don't use much is the 11. I really think to be safe a "Z" class Kz needs to be added by preference the Zn1's. That aside it's a great start.


 
 Well I'm still waiting for a comparison on the ATE vs ATE-S before I buy the ATE-S ._.


----------



## HiFiChris

squalo said:


> How would that ZN1 mini differ from the ZS1 then ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 ZS1 =/= ZN1 w/o the amp.

 Check my ZS1 review where I point out the differences between the ZN1 and ZS1 (ZS1 has a narrower nozzle and a non-vented tweeter and therefore sounds different - I'd personally pick the ZN1 over the ZS1 despite the heavy amp module any day).


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> Well I'm still waiting for a comparison on the ATE vs ATE-S before I buy the ATE-S ._.


 

 A few of the "s" are in a few  hands. Sounds like it's similar signature with out the veiling. The big  (at least for me) is the or wire. everything else sounds good. I like the (orig) ATE even with the light veil over  mids and  highs.


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> Well I'm still waiting for a comparison on the ATE vs ATE-S before I buy the ATE-S ._.


 
 I received the S...couldn't deal with the memory wire. Gave them to my son who runs and kept the ATE. S might have sounded a bit clearer and less dark but I like the original ATE sound and hate the mem wire of the S. I also wear my ATE wire down...sounds awesome IMO.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

sgl54 said:


> Morning all ( well it's morning here) does anyone in Kz land own the Kz ie80 look alike. They have always been at that $29.00 usd price point do imagine not many are floating around. But they are one of those Kz's that have interested me since they came out. Thanks in advance


 
  
 Yep, I actually got them. They are pretty good. A very bright sound. Great highs, the mids are vivid and surrounding. The sound feels close but the instrument separation is great. Good for vocal-based music. The bad: weak lows reproduction. The sound is pretty cold and dry because the mid-bass is just lacking. The sub-bass is nonexistent. You get awful tips with them, so I had to use my Zircon medium tips on them for a perfect seal.
 Not sure if you can actually get them anymore, they are a relic and a rarity these days, I'm lucky to have it in my collection. The seller I bought it from changed the item to "Not available" right after he sent my pair.


----------



## sgl54

igor eisberg said:


> Yep, I actually got them. They are pretty good. A very bright sound. Great highs, the mids are vivid and surrounding. The sound feels close but the instrument separation is great. Good for vocal-based music. The bad: weak lows reproduction. The sound is pretty cold and dry because the mid-bass is just lacking. The sub-bass is nonexistent. You get awful tips with them, so I had to use my Zircon medium tips on them for a perfect seal.
> Not sure if you can actually get them anymore, they are a relic and a rarity these days, I'm lucky to have it in my collection. The seller I bought it from changed the item to "Not available" right after he sent my pair.


 
 IE, thank you. From your description, they wouldn't be my first or second choice but I have the first and seconds already. Still they sound  interesting, with what seems to be their earlier " traditional" sound signature. There is a vendor that still has some but still at that original price. But there are a few KZ's I'd like to back fill these the GR and micro rings. GR's and these available ( not well priced but acceptably priced ) and the Micro ring ( it's absurdly priced ).  But based on your impression they seem worth having in the collection. Thanks again


----------



## Igor Eisberg

sgl54 said:


> IE, thank you. From your description, they wouldn't be my first or second choice but I have the first and seconds already. Still they sound  interesting, with what seems to be their earlier " traditional" sound signature. There is a vendor that still has some but still at that original price. But there are a few KZ's I'd like to back fill these the GR and micro rings. GR's and these available ( not well priced but acceptably priced ) and the Micro ring ( it's absurdly priced ).  But based on your impression they seem worth having in the collection. Thanks again


 
  
 Buddy, you will be disappointed with the GR. I'm not sure why there was such fuss over them... They are extremely muddy, mid-bass bloated, barely any sub-bass. The mids and highs are extremely off-tone, dark and distorted. They are also quite heavy and uncomfortable, they just stick outside your ears and tend to fall because of their weight. The only thing good about them is their build quality. That's it.
 Never got the Micro Ring though, but read good feedback about them.


----------



## sgl54

Well, I don't do muddy well so will leave the GR off. Of the three it was always the weakest. Not a lot of feedback on sound, mostly people using the filters on the ED9. Honestly don't like the look much so off the list. I'll order the IE80 and keep looking for a micro ring that's affordable. Thanks again.


----------



## gustav29

Looking to get some better isolation on ED9 and EDSE. Besides comply t-400s, what other tips you guys recommend? I've seen some references to flange tips and others but not sure what manufacturer you guys recommend? Flange tips by KZ? Amy others that work well we'll and fit KZ?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## lesp4ul

gustav29 said:


> Looking to get some better isolation on ED9 and EDSE. Besides comply t-400s, what other tips you guys recommend? I've seen some references to flange tips and others but not sure what manufacturer you guys recommend? Flange tips by KZ? Amy others that work well we'll and fit KZ?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk




I use spinfit for ed9

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Charliemotta

lesp4ul said:


> gustav29 said:
> 
> 
> > Looking to get some better isolation on ED9 and EDSE. Besides comply t-400s, what other tips you guys recommend? I've seen some references to flange tips and others but not sure what manufacturer you guys recommend? Flange tips by KZ? Amy others that work well we'll and fit KZ?
> ...


 
 I use Whirlwind tips. Might be similar to Spinfits.


----------



## Podster

gustav29 said:


> Looking to get some better isolation on ED9 and EDSE. Besides comply t-400s, what other tips you guys recommend? I've seen some references to flange tips and others but not sure what manufacturer you guys recommend? Flange tips by KZ? Amy others that work well we'll and fit KZ?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


 

 I love flange tips and these are my choice for flange http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6925991983.html?orderId=69489031263424 , $10 gets you a lifetime supply (100 Prs) I have preferred them on many of my iem's but Spin Fits are nice, whirlwinds work with some and the clear silicon ones with my Trinity's work great. If you would like to try a pair pm me an address and I can drop them in the mail to you
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Got them on my KZ ATE, ED9's and 11's.


----------



## gustav29

Thanks guys! I'll give some of these a shot! 
Anyone make their own tips? Saw some do it your own with foam ear plugs and then sort of putting the silicone tip over, but don't know if that is a road to go down.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## B9Scrambler

The only multi-flange tips that I've found that work with my ear canals are the triples that come with the white Piston 2, and the doubles that come with the Havi B3 Pro 1.





*Piston tips can glow with the best of them!*


----------



## DaveLT

^ that double flange is what I just bought. Put them on the ATE and I can tell that's it become less veiled.
  
 (PS : It's identical to the IE80 acc kit so I bought the whole lot. Cheapest after all, I can buy 2 sets of IE80 acc kit and be better off than someone who bought a set of three IE80 double flanges. Bought some wide bore JVC tips from the same shop but accidentally in large only to realize it's identical to the IE80 wide bore tip)


----------



## stephanNL

Got the HDS1 in today. First impressions, the mids seem a bit lacking. When I listen to vocals they seem quite distant because the mids seem quite subdued. I've rolled some tips and only thing that changed was the low end. Will the mids improve once they have some hours on them?


----------



## fallrsk

Earlier in the thread, we found the stubby double flange is actually the Sennheiser ie80 tips I believe. Those are sold separately somewhere, can't recall if it was on eBay or Ali... I need to grab a a couple of those, some triple flanges (Hey, Podster ) and some spinfits (which make my college wallet weep).


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> Earlier in the thread, we found the stubby double flange is actually the Sennheiser ie80 tips I believe. Those are sold separately somewhere, can't recall if it was on eBay or Ali... I need to grab a a couple of those, some triple flanges (Hey, Podster ) and some spinfits (which make my college wallet weep).


 

 Hey fall, if you want to save your wallet a little PM me an address and I can just send you a couple pair via letter


----------



## Podster

stephannl said:


> Got the HDS1 in today. First impressions, the mids seem a bit lacking. When I listen to vocals they seem quite distant because the mids seem quite subdued. I've rolled some tips and only thing that changed was the low end. Will the mids improve once they have some hours on them?


 

 Now mind you this is JMO and my hearing but the HDS1's are the mellow/softer version of the ED9's based on my tips being either triple flanges or whirlwinds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They have a very similar signature just one is laid back as opposed to being in you face


----------



## Ruben123

stephannl said:


> Got the HDS1 in today. First impressions, the mids seem a bit lacking. When I listen to vocals they seem quite distant because the mids seem quite subdued. I've rolled some tips and only thing that changed was the low end. Will the mids improve once they have some hours on them?


 

 I find the mids to be quite fluid, like Im drowning in the voices lol. In a good way, that is.


----------



## Hisoundfi

For Christmas this year I bought all my employees a pair of HDS1 

Boom


----------



## Hisoundfi

stephannl said:


> Got the HDS1 in today. First impressions, the mids seem a bit lacking. When I listen to vocals they seem quite distant because the mids seem quite subdued. I've rolled some tips and only thing that changed was the low end. Will the mids improve once they have some hours on them?


My HDS1 had forward midrange. 

Give them some burn in. I hope you didn't get a dud


----------



## SSSN

Which KZ In Ear would be best for the following:
  
 - Solid, tight bass which is not sloppy at all. Fast decay, BA-like
 - Slightly forward upper mids
 - Neutral highs: not dark or recessed, but not zingy either


----------



## Podster

sssn said:


> Which KZ In Ear would be best for the following:
> 
> - Solid, tight bass which is not sloppy at all. Fast decay, BA-like
> - Slightly forward upper mids
> - Neutral highs: not dark or recessed, but not zingy either


 

 Well 9 out of 10 on here would be able to tell you my choice however I think what Hisound gave his employees would be your ticket


----------



## fallrsk

sssn said:


> Which KZ In Ear would be best for the following:
> 
> - Solid, tight bass which is not sloppy at all. Fast decay, BA-like
> - Slightly forward upper mids
> - Neutral highs: not dark or recessed, but not zingy either




Out of those I have, I'd have to say the ED4. The highs are a bit boosted but it's tolerable, leaving me with the best balanced iem I have from KZ so far. Maybe try the S3?


----------



## The Apostle

If you had to choose the most overall balance... 

ED4
ED10

NM... You said ED4 above. LOL


----------



## fallrsk

ED10 has zero balance whatsoever. ED4 takes the cake and runs with it lol! I've got both, as well as the ZN1and the ED4 wins every time. I'd say it edges out the Zircon's, at a lower price too.


----------



## The Apostle

One last question. Why does every picture of the S3 say ED3 on the headphone itself?


----------



## B9Scrambler

the apostle said:


> One last question. Why does every picture of the S3 say ED3 on the headphone itself?


 
  
 They are the ED3 S3. There are a bunch of ED3 models, lol. Not confusing at all


----------



## 1clearhead

davelt said:


> Jesus the KZ S3 is everything I want in an IEM!
> subdued but tight quick bass, smooth mids but slightly forward presentation and warm but well controlled treble. Zero veiling!
> It's also got a good soundstage and decent separation.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 ....KZ S3 and KZ ED11's are my KZ favorites! They just do music right.


----------



## TwinACStacks

I'm sad to report that I'm really quite disappointed in the ED4. It changed, but not for the Better. It is Brighter, the Bass has receeded to the point that it's lost it's initial impact.
  
 It has everything that an IEM needs Separately. Good fairly even mix of Bass, Mids, Treble.
  
 The problem is there is NO cohesive presentation of all of them together. HI RESOLUTION? I think not.
  
 I listened to various material on my delivery run for 6 Hours last night, and I can't even really tell you what I listened to, it was that underwhelming.
  
 I will continue Burn in until 200 hours (113 to go) but I fear these are headed for the Drawer
  
 I really had high Hopes for this IEM OOTB.....
  
 On the bright side is they were < $9.
  








 TWIN


----------



## fallrsk

Weird, TwinACStacks I have to say I've got a similar impression as I use them more (haven't the patience for burn-in nor am I a burner) but they're just as fun. The sub bass is insane though, I can't get enough of it. I feel my brain's adapting more to the sound than anything else. And there's plenty resolution for what I've been listening to, granted that I lose a lot of what I love when these are powered by my setup, my iPhone gives the best sound for any of my KZ's.


----------



## raybone0566

twinacstacks said:


> I'm sad to report that I'm really quite disappointed in the ED4. It changed, but not for the Better. It is Brighter, the Bass has receeded to the point that it's lost it's initial impact.
> 
> It has everything that an IEM needs Separately. Good fairly even mix of Bass, Mids, Treble.
> 
> ...


Damn twin, I'm not getting that impression. I find detail is pretty damn good. does lack tone a bit. But I can listen to them


----------



## TwinACStacks

raybone0566 said:


> Damn twin, I'm not getting that impression. I find detail is pretty damn good. does lack tone a bit. But I can listen to them


 






 ray I'm just guessing that is what it is. Their overall sound is just well.... _*meh.*_ They remind me of those Moaol MP850s. Good but just not *right* somehow. Are you possibly mistaking the Brightness for Detail though? It's easy to do, I've done it myself. I just can't put my finger on this one.
  
 I dunno ray, help me out here, I'm at a loss really.
  








 TWIN


----------



## raybone0566

twinacstacks said:


> ray I'm just guessing that is what it is. Their overall sound is just well.... _*meh.*_ They remind me of those Moaol MP850s. Good but just not *right* somehow. Are you possibly mistaking the Brightness for Detail though? It's easy to do, I've done it myself. I just can't put my finger on this one.
> 
> I dunno ray, help me out here, I'm at a loss really.
> 
> TWIN


Twin I'm getting detail, there's just no tone to the music. It's kind of like watching a movie in black & white. I listened to them on my ride home from work. Something's not right. Don't know if it's tuning or what. Currently using spiral dot mediums. Really noticable now,


----------



## DaveLT

The other S3 I bought has the red filter fallen off before I even opened it up ...

Now the shop wants me to spend 8$ to ship back a 6$ IEM. 

It's important because without the filter there's massive sibilance


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> The other S3 I bought has the red filter fallen off before I even opened it up ...
> 
> Now the shop wants me to spend 8$ to ship back a 6$ IEM.
> 
> It's important because without the filter there's massive sibilance


 
  
 I'm sure you could make your own filter pretty easily. Start up a teabag mod for the KZ generation


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> I'm sure you could make your own filter pretty easily. Start up a teabag mod for the KZ generation



Both will have to be the same


----------



## TwinACStacks

raybone0566 said:


> Twin I'm getting detail, there's just no tone to the music. It's kind of like watching a movie in black & white. I listened to them on my ride home from work. Something's not right. Don't know if it's tuning or what. Currently using spiral dot mediums. Really noticable now,


 





 I needed that raybone.  I was thinking it was just me. They definitely fall into the category of the Earmax ER580 and Moaol MP850. Not Good OR Bad, just indifferent.
  
  








 TWIN


----------



## Podster

davelt said:


> The other S3 I bought has the red filter fallen off before I even opened it up ...
> 
> Now the shop wants me to spend 8$ to ship back a 6$ IEM.
> 
> It's important because without the filter there's massive sibilance


 

 You could always post to the sellers page that they sell faulty product and then want you to pay for the return
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Then on the other hand it's the price of a Happy Meal


----------



## joemama

davelt said:


> The other S3 I bought has the red filter fallen off before I even opened it up ...
> 
> Now the shop wants me to spend 8$ to ship back a 6$ IEM.
> 
> It's important because without the filter there's massive sibilance


 

 I had the same problem with My ED3 "Acme".  I replaced them with a pair of RE0 filters. You can get filters on head direct but they're pretty pricey. Good luck and thanks for the heads-up (I got a pair of S3s coming to me).


----------



## DaveLT

podster said:


> You could always post to the sellers page that they sell faulty product and then want you to pay for the return
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yea, good idea. 


joemama said:


> I had the same problem with My ED3 "Acme".  I replaced them with a pair of RE0 filters. You can get filters on head direct but they're pretty pricey. Good luck and thanks for the heads-up (I got a pair of S3s coming to me).


 
 Oh christ ...


----------



## DaveLT

Fixed the ED3 S3 lol. Fixed it by stealing filters off a totally crap earbud but it's got good filters. By accident. (It's a plextone ...)
  
 Oh and I found the ZN1 Mini retailing for something like 8USD on the same shop. Must buy.


----------



## LuparaX2

Now I'm confused... Zn1 mini? Like Zn1 without amp. When did these appear.
 Like these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-KZ-ZN1-Headphone-Double-Modular-HiFi-Tuning-Noise-Cancelling-Sensor-Headphone-Earphone-In-ear-Base/32574360675.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.52.xcVWnA&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201644_3_79_78_77_82_80_62_61,searchweb201560_1
  
 Edit: Cheaper than Zs1 also. Must... Resist... Buying!


----------



## noef

Hi guys,
  
 I'm looking for new IEM's and for what I've red I think these will suit me best:
 ED3 S3
 HDS1
 ED9
 ED4
  
 I prefer (a slightly bright) balanced sound and I don't like too many bass, too many as in a overpowering bassguitar which drowns out the other instruments. I also prefer natural vocals en a crisp treble, without sounding harsh. I'll like to hear your opinions and advice on choosing the right IEM for me. Many thanks in advance.


----------



## Podster

davelt said:


> Fixed the ED3 S3 lol. Fixed it by stealing filters off a totally crap earbud but it's got good filters. By accident. (It's a plextone ...)
> 
> Oh and I found the ZN1 Mini retailing for something like 8USD on the same shop. Must buy.


 

 Hey Dave, I'm pretty sure they just misspelled Mini it's really supposed to say minus as in the amp/eq box is gone now unless those little buggers have hidden it within the "Y" splitter


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> Fixed the ED3 S3 lol. Fixed it by stealing filters off a totally crap earbud but it's got good filters. By accident. (It's a plextone ...)
> 
> Oh and I found the ZN1 Mini retailing for something like 8USD on the same shop. Must buy.



yes a definate must buy. Please post the link. I can't help but think it will remove ( what's for me ) a serious flaw ( memory wire ) in the Zs1.
Thanks


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Hey Dave, I'm pretty sure they just misspelled Mini it's really supposed to say minus as in the amp/eq box is gone now unless those little buggers have hidden it within the "Y" splitter:eek:



Awe come on, I like the idea of Zn1 "mini"!! It's descriptive, understandable and a only 2000 pieces no reason to confuse me by having to learn something new! Oh by the way. Merry Christmas or Happy holiday or ???


----------



## Maxima7

Don't really see it as a must buy. There are several around $10-12, but they have epacket and possibly more substantial packaging/case.


----------



## sgl54

maxima7 said:


> Don't really see it as a must buy. There are several around $10-12, but they have epacket and possibly more substantial packaging/case.



Sorry about that I should have phrased it " for me it's a must buy". I really like my Zn1's and much about the Zs1's. So I am very interested in hearing this intermediate step with in the "Z" class. For me it's well worth $8.00 to have a pair. Epacket? I've found for me it's not critical to have, nice but not critical. As far as packaging, Kz the packaging has gotten pretty consistant and have yet to recieve a damaged pair nor a defective pair. I'm not sure it ever really factored into the buying decision anyway. But I take you point and have some of those other $10.00, $12.00 phones coming as well.


----------



## DaveLT

sgl54 said:


> yes a definate must buy. Please post the link. I can't help but think it will remove ( what's for me ) a serious flaw ( memory wire ) in the Zs1.
> Thanks


 
 http://world.taobao.com/item/525362602762.htm?spm=a312a.7700825.1997196601.4.4MWf0j


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> http://world.taobao.com/item/525362602762.htm?spm=a312a.7700825.1997196601.4.4MWf0j



I appreciate the link, and info.
Thanks


----------



## cr0wnest

Got my hands on a KZ ED Special Edition and I am completely blown away. There is no way these can cost 7 USD and sound this good. The bass can be a bit too boomy on some tracks and the overall signature somewhat V shaped, but whoa am I impressed. It's got a pretty decent sound stage and the highs are just right.

Cant wait for my ZS1, ATE-S and ED-9 to arrive!


----------



## kelvinjulio

Anyone have tried the kz ed9s (kz ed9 black version)??
Can you post any real pic of it??
wanna see how good it look


----------



## DaveLT

kelvinjulio said:


> Anyone have tried the kz ed9s (kz ed9 black version)??
> Can you post any real pic of it??
> wanna see how good it look



As discussed earlier it's a ed9 in black. That's it.


cr0wnest said:


> Got my hands on a KZ ED Special Edition and I am completely blown away. There is no way these can cost 7 USD and sound this good. The bass can be a bit too boomy on some tracks and the overall signature somewhat V shaped, but whoa am I impressed. It's got a pretty decent sound stage and the highs are just right.
> 
> Cant wait for my ZS1, ATE-S and ED-9 to arrive!



Then you must find a S3. It is out of this world.


----------



## kelvinjulio

davelt said:


> As discussed earlier it's a ed9 in black. That's it.


yes as i said i just wanna see the real pic of black version


----------



## sgl54

cr0wnest said:


> Got my hands on a KZ ED Special Edition and I am completely blown away. There is no way these can cost 7 USD and sound this good. The bass can be a bit too boomy on some tracks and the overall signature somewhat V shaped, but whoa am I impressed. It's got a pretty decent sound stage and the highs are just right.
> 
> Cant wait for my ZS1, ATE-S and ED-9 to arrive!



It just doesn't make any sense does granted I paid upwards of $10.00 for mine but what still surprises me ( also with the HD1) is that it's just such a small driver with such big sound. The next surprise for you will be that ED9, they are just as surprising but with more, simply more. The bass in the Zs1 will amaze and the ATE has different attributes all together. So just thi?nk more to come!


----------



## Chief Stringer

kelvinjulio said:


> Anyone have tried the kz ed9s (kz ed9 black version)??
> Can you post any real pic of it??
> wanna see how good it look







There you go bud, look cool IMO


----------



## 1clearhead

noef said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm looking for new IEM's and for what I've red I think these will suit me best:
> ED3 S3
> ...


 
 +1 ....Don't forget the ED11 to seal the deal!


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> +1 ....Don't forget the ED11 to seal the deal!



The sound you say you like is the ED9, buy two pair of Black and I'll trade ya for one of my three silver pairs You will like all thise you have listed but I'm betting you pick the ED9 for their clarity and sweet treble


----------



## TheWeeknd

Best kz's for rnb like Frank Ocean, The weeknd and hiphop?


----------



## 1clearhead

podster said:


> The sound you say you like is the ED9, buy two pair of Black and I'll trade ya for one of my three silver pairs You will like all thise you have listed but I'm betting you pick the ED9 for their clarity and sweet treble


 
  
 Haha. I believe you wanted to post this to *noef. *Right?
  
 Just go to his *original posting*.....though it sounds tempting to me.


----------



## fallrsk

Hey guys, I contacted Teresa to find out if she would be getting the KZ S3 and sent her both the Taobao and Ali links, this was her answer:

"Hello friend,
This is actually not on the newest products, it is the weihuo product foreign trade OEM , so you can see it's price is very low, so you can see all the AliExpress sellers did not sell it.
Of course, if you are interested in it, I can help you go to Taobao to buy it."

Was the response on the Taobao store, and:

"Haha, I know him, this AliExpress store and Taobao store is the same boss."

Was the response to the Ali store.. I don't really understand what she meant by foreign trade OEM so I asked what the differences are.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

fallrsk said:


> Hey guys, I contacted Teresa to find out if she would be getting the KZ S3 and sent her both the Taobao and Ali links, this was her answer:
> 
> "Hello friend,
> This is actually not on the newest products, it is the weihuo product foreign trade OEM , so you can see it's price is very low, so you can see all the AliExpress sellers did not sell it.
> ...




I'd like to know this too.


----------



## fallrsk

Lo and behold, Teresa knows all!

"Of course, I know more, ha ha!
I has 1 pcs KZ S3 sample, it sound is the same as KZ ED3, 
only the appearance of the coating and the earphone cable is different."


----------



## DaveLT

I spoke with the S3 seller on taobao and the store said they're different.


----------



## fallrsk

Ah, well I told Teresa I wished she sold them and her response:

"This is what I should do,
Because KZ manufacturers has offered me 1 pcs sample of KZ S3, they hope me to help them sell it,
When I get it, I found that it did not change much compared with the ED3, so I gave up.

Finally, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!"

If someone with a whole testing setup could confirm there's no real difference (give some leeway for QC) then that would put this to rest, maybe they do sound different or maybe it's just a placebo effect yanno?


----------



## DaveLT

fallrsk said:


> Ah, well I told Teresa I wished she sold them and her response:
> 
> "This is what I should do,
> Because KZ manufacturers has offered me 1 pcs sample of KZ S3, they hope me to help them sell it,
> ...


 
 Well even if it is the same, at <6$ ... It's an awful lot cheaper as well because the taobao shops want 20$ for a ED3.
  
 I will be buying a ED3 from aliexpress so that.


----------



## cr0wnest

Coincidentally, my ED9 and ATE-S arrived today, a day after I got my ED Special Edition. 

 The ED9 was a little disappointing, its got nice punchy bass with lots of clarity but the highs are just too fatiguing for my J-POP music. Swapping out the inserts didn't really help either, although the brass nozzles had amazing sound stage and detail. But recently I'm leaning more towards a warmer sound signature.
  
 The ATE-S (The newer one with improved sound tuning and memory wire) really surprised me. I've heard several say its comparable to the IM50 and some consider it to be a "poor man's SE215" but its really something else. Ive never owned the IM50, but I did use the SE215 for quite a while before I moved onto the CKR9 and CKR10 from AT. I think the ATE-S already beats the SE215 for two reasons - The price, and it does not have as much of high end roll off the SE215 was notorious for, and for me personally that was my biggest gripe with that IEM. The ATE-S is a keeper for me. It turned out to be a lot smaller than I thought and I guess thats a good thing because it sits nicely in your ears. The Audio-Technica IM50 and IM70 was too painful for me to wear. The sound stage on the ATE-S was also pleasant, if my ears aren't deceiving me I'd say they are slightly wider than the SE215. If anyone is considering an entry level over the ear IEM for casual listening, monitoring, or someone just getting into the audiophile market, I'd check out the KZ ATE-S.


----------



## fallrsk

Lol, definitely can't disagree on that pricing though! That $5 deal is kick ass.


----------



## DaveLT

cr0wnest said:


> Coincidentally, my ED9 and ATE-S arrived today, a day after I got my ED Special Edition.
> 
> The ED9 was a little disappointing, its got nice punchy bass with lots of clarity but the highs are just too fatiguing for my J-POP music. Swapping out the inserts didn't really help either, although the brass nozzles had amazing sound stage and detail. But recently I'm leaning more towards a warmer sound signature.
> 
> The ATE-S (The newer one with improved sound tuning and memory wire) really surprised me. I've heard several say its comparable to the IM50 and some consider it to be a "poor man's SE215" but its really something else. Ive never owned the IM50, but I did use the SE215 for quite a while before I moved onto the CKR9 and CKR10 from AT. I think the ATE-S already beats the SE215 for two reasons - The price, and it does not have as much of high end roll off the SE215 was notorious for, and for me personally that was my biggest gripe with that IEM. The ATE-S is a keeper for me. It turned out to be a lot smaller than I thought and I guess thats a good thing because it sits nicely in your ears. The Audio-Technica IM50 and IM70 was too painful for me to wear. The sound stage on the ATE-S was also pleasant, if my ears aren't deceiving me I'd say they are slightly wider than the SE215. If anyone is considering an entry level over the ear IEM for casual listening, monitoring, or someone just getting into the audiophile market, I'd check out the KZ ATE-S.


 
 Sad to hear the ED9 is harsh I guess. I listen to tons of JPop (well, I don't like anything with pop actually) as well. Thank god I didn't buy the ED9 because I simply hate harsh IEMs.
  
 I have the ATE already still split on whether to buy ATE-S or not because the S3 is really DAM good.


----------



## cr0wnest

davelt said:


> Sad to hear the ED9 is harsh I guess. I listen to tons of JPop (well, I don't like anything with pop actually) as well. Thank god I didn't buy the ED9 because I simply hate harsh IEMs.
> 
> I have the ATE already still split on whether to buy ATE-S or not because the S3 is really DAM good.


 
  
 Haha JPop is still cool, its the western pop of the last decade I cannot stand the most. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The S3 is hard to come by on Aliexpress, and Taobao is more complicated to buy from. I guess I'll wait for more of those stores to bring it in? If they ever do.


----------



## stephanNL

cr0wnest said:


> The ATE-S (The newer one with improved sound tuning and memory wire) really surprised me. I've heard several say its comparable to the IM50 and some consider it to be a "poor man's SE215" but its really something else. Ive never owned the IM50, but I did use the SE215 for quite a while before I moved onto the CKR9 and CKR10 from AT. I think the ATE-S already beats the SE215 for two reasons - The price, and it does not have as much of high end roll off the SE215 was notorious for, and for me personally that was my biggest gripe with that IEM. The ATE-S is a keeper for me. It turned out to be a lot smaller than I thought and I guess thats a good thing because it sits nicely in your ears. The Audio-Technica IM50 and IM70 was too painful for me to wear. The sound stage on the ATE-S was also pleasant, if my ears aren't deceiving me I'd say they are slightly wider than the SE215. If anyone is considering an entry level over the ear IEM for casual listening, monitoring, or someone just getting into the audiophile market, I'd check out the KZ ATE-S.


 
 Oh ATE-S, you had my curiosity but now you have my attention! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
@cr0wnest given you say you have started to prefer a more warmer sound signature. Would you say the ATE-S falls into this category? You described it has less high end roll off than the SE215. How would you describe the ATE-S high end? Is it smooth enough or a bit crispy? I'm asking cause I don't deal particularly well with very sharp and almost sibilant highs.
  
 Can anyone else maybe elaborate on the difference in sound between the original ATE and the ATE-S? The memory wire is obviously a difference but how do they differ sound wise?


----------



## TwinACStacks

If you Guys are smart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, You will find a pair of the Updated (post 2013) GK ANV, even if you have to spend $50 or more to get it as some sites are asking.
  
 There is a Reason for this.
  
 I broke my ANV's out of storage (one of the few I keep in it's original box NEATLY). Had a listen Last night on my Delivery Run for 8 Hours last night, I couldn't put them down. The only reason I don't use them is they Hurt My ears after a short time. I haven't listened to these for almost a year.
  
 I bared the Pain. IMHO (it's really never changed), These are simply THE BEST KZ earphone BY LIGHT YEARS that I've heard, and I've only NOT heard the HDS1 and that Powered monstrosity. But I'm doubting they would keep up with these. These compare almost exactly to my Friends ATH CK1000 ANVs if not a little better.
  
 No wonder they keep raising the price.
  
 JMHO But I've never changed it, and yes they still hurt my Ears. Extremely uncomfortable for me Personally, But WORTH the pain.
  
MERRY Christmas!!! KZers.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Ruben123

I like the ed9 and hds1 much better than anv unfortunately. Paying $50 for them is really too much, $20 maybe, anymore you'd better buy ER Kids or Havi.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Did anyone ever point out that the KZ DT3 and Fisher Consonance Pro utilize the same housing (at least in design)?
  

  
 Also, I would take the ANV over every KZ, but only once they are filter modded. Without they are just a little too harsh up top.


----------



## cr0wnest

stephannl said:


> Oh ATE-S, you had my curiosity but now you have my attention!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes the ATE-S is definitely warm, even warmer than the SE215 (I just took it out to compare both IEMs) but has less forward mids. Because the bass on the ATE-S has a lot more growl, similar to the KZ EDSE but not as bloated. Don't worry about the highs being too sharp, they are very well behaved. Its somewhere between smooth and crisp, though I would say more on the smooth side. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Unfortunately I've never owned the original ATE so I can't compare the two.
  
 I just dropped the bomb on a ED11, and I'm currently awaiting the arrival of my ZS1. I'm a little nervous about how the latter will sound to me, I've been seeing some mixed comments.


----------



## The Apostle

cr0wnest said:


> Haha JPop is still cool, its the western pop of the last decade I cannot stand the most.
> 
> The S3 is hard to come by on Aliexpress, and Taobao is more complicated to buy from. I guess I'll wait for more of those stores to bring it in? If they ever do.




You guys are much more experienced with AE, and their confusing labeling... Does this seem like a legit ED3 S3 or the standard? Or in recent posts, is there even a difference? LOL. Adding to the confusion?

KZ-S3 Headset in bass rock Headset Headset metal HIFI mobile phone computer Headset trend
http://s.aliexpress.com/yeeieMNV
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## sgl54

cr0wnest said:


> Coincidentally, my ED9 and ATE-S arrived today, a day after I got my ED Special Edition.
> 
> 
> The ED9 was a little disappointing, its got nice punchy bass with lots of clarity but the highs are just too fatiguing for my J-POP music. Swapping out the inserts didn't really help either, although the brass nozzles had amazing sound stage and detail. But recently I'm leaning more towards a warmer sound signature.
> ...



Interesting, I have the older ED9 and it's old. I can't really describe the highs as fatiguig. I'm still running the brass inserts. I wonder if they changed drivers to the newer driver ( found in the black units etc) and if that's the new signature? Anyway glad you like the ATE's, thanks for the feed back.


----------



## cr0wnest

the apostle said:


> You guys are much more experienced with AE, and their confusing labeling... Does this seem like a legit ED3 S3 or the standard? Or in recent posts, is there even a difference? LOL. Adding to the confusion?
> 
> KZ-S3 Headset in bass rock Headset Headset metal HIFI mobile phone computer Headset trend
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yeeieMNV
> (from AliExpress Android)




Looks legit to me. Then again, I've no idea how the S3 is supposed to look like. But this store has pretty good rating and feedback, still the lack of feedback on this listing itself is rather odd.



sgl54 said:


> Interesting, I have the older ED9 and it's old. I can't really describe the highs as fatiguig. I'm still running the brass inserts. I wonder if they changed drivers to the newer driver ( found in the black units etc) and if that's the new signature? Anyway glad you like the ATE's, thanks for the feed back.




Perhaps.. Were there people reporting the newer ED9's have a different sound signature? I don't recall ever hearing any of that.


----------



## sgl54

ruben123 said:


> I like the ed9 and hds1 much better than anv unfortunately. Paying $50 for them is really too much, $20 maybe, anymore you'd better buy ER Kids or Havi.



Well I haven't listened to the ANV but I completely agree with the price comment. I have been looking at back filling my Kz holes, Micro-ring, IE80 and a few others. The ones I've found are just over priced, only one Kz was at the original release price (IE80 copy) and even that felt expensive at $29.00 definately prefer Kz's new price structure


----------



## sgl54

cr0wnest said:


> Looks legit to me. Then again, I've no idea how the S3 is supposed to look like. But this store has pretty good rating and feedback, still the lack of feedback on this listing itself is rather odd.
> Perhaps.. Were there people reporting the newer ED9's have a different sound signature? I don't recall ever hearing any of that.



I have simply seen the market ads which seem to hint at a new patented speaker design. But then I haven't heard of anyone comparing the new to the first incarnation which focused, ad wise on filters and venting. I did buy an Ed9 as amstocking stuffer for my son, so I'll give it a listen tomarrow. It was more of a passing thought than anything and simply based on pretty pictures from the marketing guys


----------



## TwinACStacks

ruben123 said:


> I like the ed9 and hds1 much better than anv unfortunately. Paying $50 for them is really too much, $20 maybe, anymore you'd better buy ER Kids or Havi.


 






 Although the Havis had a very good sound they required too much power to get them to a decent volume, and IF You did power them and EQ in some Bass or Bass Boost them they turned into a muddy distorted mess.
  
 I was rid of them in 2 weeks, after I completed Burn in. I CANNOT tolerate Distortion. If a Driver can't stand up to sufficient power to get it to a Respectable Volume level then it's a case of POOR engineering.
  
 I never Really liked the Treble Heavy ED9, I MUCH prefer the EDSE.
  
 Everyone has different Tastes.
  








 TWIN


----------



## sgl54

twinacstacks said:


> Although the Havis had a very good sound they required too much power to get them to a decent volume, and IF You did power them and EQ in some Bass or Bass Boost them they turned into a muddy distorted mess.
> 
> I was rid of them in 2 weeks, after I completed Burn in. I CANNOT tolerate Distortion. If a Driver can't stand up to sufficient power to get it to a Respectable Volume level then it's a case of POOR engineering.
> 
> ...


 
 Haven't ran into the " Muddy distorted mess" as described. but I do run them with an amp. I have a few that just don't sound right with out the amp. Havi's and Puro's but both work very well amped. It sounds like your describing my TT pods, which are my " two week" shove em in a drawer IEM.
 On a lighter note. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and Happy New Years no humbug here!


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> I like the ed9 and hds1 much better than anv unfortunately. Paying $50 for them is really too much, $20 maybe, anymore you'd better buy ER Kids or Havi.




Really, I bailed from the KZ shopping spree after my HDS2, have the 1 and 9's gone up that much on AliEx?


----------



## Podster

sgl54 said:


> Awe come on, I like the idea of Zn1 "mini"!! It's descriptive, understandable and a only 2000 pieces no reason to confuse me by having to learn something new! Oh by the way. Merry Christmas or Happy holiday or ???




All I'm wanting to know are the new ZN1 Minu the same as the old ZS1 without the memory wire?? Has anyone heard them and determined they are the old memory wire basd monster ZS1's


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> All I'm wanting to know are the new ZN1 Minu the same as the old ZS1 without the memory wire?? Has anyone heard them and determined they are the old memory wire basd monster ZS1's



If I had to quess, which I do of course. I would expect them to be similar but not quite the same. More linear but probably still a little bass heavy. Still I'm dreaming it will sound like the Zn1 powered "on" but in neutral median ( 7,7 ) setting. But even if there the same as the ZS1 without memory wire I think I'll enjoy them more and get a better fit.


----------



## 1clearhead

The KZ S3 is a light alloy silver IEM only coming with black or blue wires, that's it! ......Not your typical rubbery see-thru brown wires as you see most KZ brands come with.
  
 Unless the seller states they're the "S3's" it should have the exact same features mentioned above.


----------



## CADCAM

Finally got my ZS1 to sound decent. I always use small\medium tips but tried some large @ss tips and wow...best they have ever sounded. I don't think I was ever getting a seal before and these big tips and the mem wire let me press them in for a good seal...finally. Listening to some Eat Static btw.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Finally got my ZS1 to sound decent. I always use small\medium tips but tried some large @ss tips and wow...best they have ever sounded. I don't think I was ever getting a seal before and these big tips and the mem wire let me press them in for a good seal...finally. Listening to some Eat Static btw.



Nice Cad, once you find that tip try some custom EQ if you have those features or even factory EQ settings After 35 hours or so my ZS's tightened up and with good power and EQ the sound way better than their price tag might suggest!


----------



## joemama

Quote:


cr0wnest said:


> The S3 is hard to come by on Aliexpress, and Taobao is more complicated to buy from. I guess I'll wait for more of those stores to bring it in? If they ever do.


 
  
 You can always try Mister Tao if you don't feel like waiting
  
  


ruben123 said:


> I like the ed9 and hds1 much better than anv unfortunately. Paying $50 for them is really too much, $20 maybe, anymore you'd better buy ER Kids or Havi.


 
  
 Or wait until they drop in price after Jan 1. That's how I got mine for $12


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Really, I bailed from the KZ shopping spree after my HDS2, have the 1 and 9's gone up that much on AliEx?




Lol no it's about the anv mate!


----------



## cr0wnest

I just discovered something about the ED9's brass nozzles. I noticed that one side always felt a little off, like it was missing a lot of warmth and bass. I kept thinking there was something wrong with the ear tips or the way I fit them in my ears, but that was not the case. I then checked the unit to ensure there was nothing wrong with the way I screwed in the nozzles or the filters. Finally I realised there is this little hole vent with a sticker covering. On one of the nozzles, this sticker was "lifted" up a little while the other nozzle was flat. So I took a little needle to flatten the sticker (covering the port) and whoa, this sounds really really amazing!
  
 I take back whatever I said about the ED9 before. The gold nozzles were somewhat V shaped, and the highs were really fatiguing, the brass ones however have more controlled highs but still sound so detailed. The bass took a step back to allow the mids to shine more, giving the overall sound signature warm with punchy bass and forward mids, but yet still has that high end sparkle that isn't as fatiguing as the golds though may still cause discomfort after longer listening. However I still wished there was a little more presence in the bass for that extra growl and rumble. But I guess you can't always have everything.


----------



## HiFiChris

cr0wnest said:


> Finally I realised there is this little hole vent with a sticker covering. On one of the nozzles, this sticker was "lifted" up a little while the other nozzle was flat. So I took a little needle to flatten the sticker (covering the port) and whoa, this sounds really really amazing!


 

 Indeed, that  was also my problem with the ED9 when I got them some months ago. Never understood why they should be good, they sounded somewhat off. Then I remembered someone mentioning the filter in the nozzle and took a look inside mine, and voilà, both filters were lifted. Aligning them with the shape of the nozzle with the help of a needle (I guess I used a needle), the quite good audio quality for the money and value was suddenly there, but also bass and ground-tone were more present. Not a kind of signature I personally like, but still quite good for the low price of ~ $10.


----------



## zzhead

podster said:


> All I'm wanting to know are the new ZN1 Minu the same as the old ZS1 without the memory wire?? Has anyone heard them and determined they are the old memory wire basd monster ZS1's



 


Same problem here.
Received the ZS1 about a week ago. 
tried a few times to find a god fitting but it was impossible with the overhead wire.
Felt like being a fakir with my head in a vice.
Re packaged them put a bow and gave them as a Christmas present to a friend
after making sure that he doesn't know Head-Fi.
Two days ago ordered the new Zn1 (or KZ ATN) without the amp
I will give you my opinion in about 20 days.
I hope it doesn't have any hidden wires.
R.I.P ZS1 ..I wasn't even able to formulate an opinion about them


----------



## omgflyingbanana

Anyone able to remove the gold weights from the KZ ATE?


----------



## fallrsk

Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads this thread!? The S3 is simply a better looking ED3, no sq differences (according to a seller who indeed would sell them if they sounded different). It still confuses me why Teresa wouldn't sell them but maybe they shall. Only one Taobao and AE store have the S3 and they're both the same person. So, you can pay $5 on Tao or $12 on AE or $10 for the normal ED3 lol.


----------



## anticute

I may have missed some opinions on this, but most of the stuff I've read about ZN1/ZS1 has been about them being really uncomfortable because of the memory wire..
  
 Could someone fill me in on how they sound?


----------



## sgl54

They are by far my favorite Kz. I typically describe them as 95% of my Havi B3p1 as the signature is very similar. Pretty nuetral possibly bassy dependin on amp/eq settings. That's also why you don't hear sound descriptions because you atomatically eq them to match music ets.


----------



## 1clearhead

fallrsk said:


> Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads this thread!? The S3 is simply a better looking ED3, *no sq differences (according to a seller who indeed would sell them if they sounded different)*. It still confuses me why Teresa wouldn't sell them but maybe they shall. Only one Taobao and AE store have the S3 and they're both the same person. So, you can pay $5 on Tao or $12 on AE or $10 for the normal ED3 lol.


 

 The last person I would listen to is the seller that rarely knows what they're selling. *ED-S3* is the best of the bunch! Unless, you are quoting on them because you have them? That would be totally different. I have the different versions, so I'm talking facts! They are the best balanced and hi-end out of the different versions.
  
 I would try another seller if I were you.


----------



## Maxima7

> The last person I would listen to is the seller that rarely knows what they're selling. *ED-S3* is the best of the bunch! Unless, you are quoting on them because you have them? That would be totally different.


 
  
 The person saying they're the same had samples of both.
  
  


> I have the different versions, so I'm talking facts! They are the best balanced and hi-end out of the different versions.


 
  
 But you were hyping the Iverys. XD


----------



## fallrsk

1clearhead said:


> The last person I would listen to is the seller that rarely knows what they're selling. *ED-S3* is the best of the bunch! Unless, you are quoting on them because you have them? That would be totally different. I have the different versions, so I'm talking facts! They are the best balanced and hi-end out of the different versions.
> 
> I would try another seller if I were you.



Yeah, maxima hit the nail on the head. Teresa has sampled both and sensed no differences. This being said, once again, there is only ONE seller for the S3 thus far so I'm a bit lost as to what you mean?


----------



## cr0wnest

I've only seen the ED3 (Metallic one) and ED3c (Also known as the Youth, comes in Blue or Red) and the latter has been officially described as having improved sound. I was never aware there was a S3 model until I came here, and from that listing mentioned in the previous page (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html) someone asked if this was legit, and to me it would appear so. But now I'm having my doubts, should I drop the bomb on the S3 in that listing? Or save a few bucks and grab a normal ED3c from another seller that is guaranteed legit.
  
 Also does the ED3c only come in red and blue and the normal ED3 comes only in that grey metallic color? Or have they been releasing ED3c's in the same color as the ED3?


----------



## 1clearhead

maxima7 said:


> The person saying they're the same had samples of both.
> 
> 
> 
> But you were hyping the Iverys. XD


 
  
 A lot of people hype headphones, whether they're in-ear, on-ear, or over-ear. Let me clarify, that I rather listen to a head-fier that brought the product that gives their opinion on this thread than to listen to a seller that really is just out to sell you what little they know about the product and are not enthusiast about the tonality and sound as we are. Most of them are just Chinese vendors out of China giving themselves English names to sell from Aliexpress. You should really keep that in mind.
  


fallrsk said:


> Yeah, maxima hit the nail on the head. Teresa has sampled both and sensed no differences. This being said, once again, there is only ONE seller for the S3 thus far so I'm a bit lost as to what you mean?


 
  
 I have the different versions......here is a link that should pretty much sell you the exact S3 version, whether you want it in black, or blue.
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.35.Eot04E&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_2_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_3
  
 Notice the wires are either black, or blue.....these are both the S3 versions.
  
  
 Hope this helps......


----------



## TwinACStacks

Guys You All also have to realize that sound is a subjective personal thing. Everyone Hears a little differently, there really isn't a BEST it's just Preference. Of course most can tell good from bad, THAT is apparent. It's just the subtleties of How much Bass, Mid, Treble, Micro Details Clarity, soundstage whether it's cavernous or focused, wide or Narrow, Etc. and a myriad of other sonic descriptions that we quibble about.
  
 It's all good, that's why we are Addicts.
  








 TWIN


----------



## sgl54

I'll have to agree of a couple points ( 1 Clearhead, Twinstacks ) I don't pay any attention to what the sellers say the sound like and pretty much when ever I buy a new phone, especially non Kz I always look for a headfi review or at least a headfi impression. And the second point of two ( twin again ) he always get two things right and then one wrong ( so watch the cycle) sound is subjective. His wrong statement " we are all addicts" I swear I can give it up any time I want!


----------



## noef

I was wondering if there is a significant difference between the ED9 and the HDS1.


----------



## 1clearhead

twinacstacks said:


> Guys You All also have to realize that sound is a subjective personal thing. Everyone Hears a little differently, there really isn't a BEST it's just Preference. Of course most can tell good from bad, THAT is apparent. It's just the subtleties of How much Bass, Mid, Treble, Micro Details Clarity, soundstage whether it's cavernous or focused, wide or Narrow, Etc. and a myriad of other sonic descriptions that we quibble about.
> 
> It's all good, that's why we are Addicts.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 ....I can try to give it up, but again head-fi is a leader in headphone media. Can't stop!


----------



## TwinACStacks

sgl54 said:


> I'll have to agree of a couple points ( 1 Clearhead, Twinstacks ) I don't pay any attention to what the sellers say the sound like and pretty much when ever I buy a new phone, especially non Kz I always look for a headfi review or at least a headfi impression. And the second point of two ( twin again ) he always get two things right and then one wrong ( so watch the cycle) sound is subjective. His wrong statement " we are all addicts" I swear I can give it up any time I want!


 





 Bet me.
  








 TWIN


----------



## sgl54

noef said:


> I was wondering if there is a significant difference between the ED9 and the HDS1.



There is a difference, signifacant? Probably. But some of that is based on the tunable (brass, gold) switchable filters. I still rate the ED9 above the HDS1. I think for me the most noticable difference is, more detail across the entire sound spectrum. The HDS1 one (at this point) is brighter and top end detail simular to the ED9. I will mention one caveat and tht is I have had the ED9 much longer and have had complete burn in. While my HDS1 is very new to me ( only a week or so ols) without the same burn in. Sounds are pretty spectacular but I expect it to alter a little with burn in.


----------



## sgl54

twinacstacks said:


> Bet me.
> 
> TWIN



On? See your not going to corner me, no siree.


----------



## noef

sgl54 said:


> There is a difference, signifacant? Probably. But some of that is based on the tunable (brass, gold) switchable filters. I still rate the ED9 above the HDS1. I think for me the most noticable difference is, more detail across the entire sound spectrum. The HDS1 one (at this point) is brighter and top end detail simular to the ED9. I will mention one caveat and tht is I have had the ED9 much longer and have had complete burn in. While my HDS1 is very new to me ( only a week or so ols) without the same burn in. Sounds are pretty spectacular but I expect it to alter a little with burn in.


 
 I appreciate your feedback. But after reading many reviews and posts regarding these two IEMs it still remains unclear to me which one has got better mids. I hate recessed mids (even the slightest form) so I was wondering if you (and others) could answer that question.


----------



## B9Scrambler

noef said:


> I appreciate your feedback. But after reading many reviews and posts regarding these two IEMs it still remains unclear to me which one has got better mids. I hate recessed mids (even the slightest form) so I was wondering if you (and others) could answer that question.




Mids are more forward and natural on the HSD1. Imo it is the more technically accomplished of the two, but the ED9 is more flexible across genres due to the variable tuning filters.


----------



## sgl54

noef said:


> I appreciate your feedback. But after reading many reviews and posts regarding these two IEMs it still remains unclear to me which one has got better mids. I hate recessed mids (even the slightest form) so I was wondering if you (and others) could answer that question.



The safest net would be the 9's I haven't really noticed recessed mids with the HDS1's. But I find female vocals more natural on the 9's which is I think the higher end of the mids. I'm hesitant here because every Kz I've owned has improved with time ( break in) and mine HDS1's aren't anywhere near broken in. The brightness is coloring the mids to some degree and I know they'll settle over time. My EDRSE's changed a great dea, l much fuller and the HDS1 sounds to me a lot like it did in the begining but that doesn't meanmit will settle alkng the same lines. I will say the ED9, EDRSE and HDS1 are all very much worth owning.


----------



## sgl54

One thing to note here, between what I hear and what B9scrambler hears are his may be broken in properly and not only do we "probably" listen to different music ( less hard rock for me) he has younger ears. So his opinion may fit your listening more precisely. That said my 9's at this point are more natural for me. Listing to Daniella Andade , she is Canadian vocalist and very good ( threw that in for b9 ) she just sounds better to me on the 9's.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> One thing to note here, between what I hear and what B9scrambler hears are his may be broken in properly and not only do we "probably" listen to different music ( less hard rock for me) he has younger ears. So his opinion may fit your listening more precisely. That said my 9's at this point are more natural for me. Listing to Daniella Andade , she is Canadian vocalist and very good ( threw that in for b9 ) she just sounds better to me on the 9's.




I completely agree. My HDS1 are very broken in, but I'm also not a huge fan of the ED9 in the first place. That shouldn't be news to anyone who has been following this thread throughout the year. They're okay, I just find them exceptionally sloppy in their treble presentation.


----------



## B9Scrambler

To clarify, I still think the ED9 is the KZ to get, as an entry to the brand.


----------



## fallrsk

Why not both? Lol!

But 1clearhead you just proved that there is indeed only one seller for the S3. Am I the only one that finds it a little weird? The person running that store and the Taobao store are the same guy, both of which are selling the same lot of S3. Watch out guys, clearhead's getting paid off to sell the S3's!! Lol, kidding. I really like the color of the S3 over the red/blue though and I believe DaveLT put an order in for the ED3c so we'll have another impression between the two in a week or two?


----------



## The Apostle

cr0wnest said:


> I've only seen the ED3 (Metallic one) and ED3c (Also known as the Youth, comes in Blue or Red) and the latter has been officially described as having improved sound. I was never aware there was a S3 model until I came here, and from that listing mentioned in the previous page (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html) someone asked if this was legit, and to me it would appear so. But now I'm having my doubts, should I drop the bomb on the S3 in that listing? Or save a few bucks and grab a normal ED3c from another seller that is guaranteed legit.
> 
> Also does the ED3c only come in red and blue and the normal ED3 comes only in that grey metallic color? Or have they been releasing ED3c's in the same color as the ED3?




That was me asking if they were legit. I'm still going to order. I mean, it's like $12. I have no experience with the "standard" ED3 so I wouldn't know the difference.


----------



## DaveLT

fallrsk said:


> Why not both? Lol!
> 
> But @1clearhead you just proved that there is indeed only one seller for the S3. Am I the only one that finds it a little weird? The person running that store and the Taobao store are the same guy, both of which are selling the same lot of S3. Watch out guys, clearhead's getting paid off to sell the S3's!! Lol, kidding. I really like the color of the S3 over the red/blue though and I believe @DaveLT put an order in for the ED3c so we'll have another impression between the two in a week or two?


 
 I am thinking of ordering the original ED3 not the ED3c. I haven't bought them and for some reason shipping here from aliexpress takes bloody ages.
 Oh well, I have actually bought it now.
  


the apostle said:


> That was me asking if they were legit. I'm still going to order. I mean, it's like $12. I have no experience with the "standard" ED3 so I wouldn't know the difference.


 Even if it WAS indeed a ED3 (which they aren't) with standard wires it's well more than half the price of a ED3 nevertheless (On taobao 79.8 vs 29.9)


----------



## 1clearhead

fallrsk said:


> Why not both? Lol!
> 
> But @1clearhead you just proved that there is indeed only one seller for the S3. Am I the only one that finds it a little weird? The person running that store and the Taobao store are the same guy, both of which are selling the same lot of S3. Watch out guys, clearhead's getting paid off to sell the S3's!! Lol, kidding. I really like the color of the S3 over the red/blue though and I believe @DaveLT put an order in for the ED3c so we'll have another impression between the two in a week or two?


 

 Boy, I wish I was getting paid to do this! .....But, all in all is a great little hobby for me, which at times empties out my wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS. I didn't send you this second seller, since they're asking for a bit too much.....
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-earphones-in-ear-bass-earphones-Rock-and-roll-tide-headphones-metal-mobile-phone-hifi/32541160753.html?spm=2114.10010108.0.104.DXPWIv


----------



## fallrsk

Ooh, my sketch alarm is going off fof that seller lol! 0 feedback whatsoever, phew. Even if they are a legit store, it'll be hard for them to start up. 

And yeah, being a broke college student with audiophilic tendencies doesn't work too hot.


----------



## Ruben123

1clearhead said:


> Boy, I wish I was getting paid to do this! .....But, all in all is a great little hobby for me, which at times empties out my wallet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would argue for hds1 and i have both. Besides that the hds1 fit 100x better due to their low weight, the sound is less bright but more balanced which is not a bad thing at all. Ed9 was already quite balanced, pure or whatever you will call it, but hds1 is more refined. If you dont like hds1's sound you could always eq them a bit.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> I completely agree. My HDS1 are very broken in, but I'm also not a huge fan of the ED9 in the first place. That shouldn't be news to anyone who has been following this thread throughout the year. They're okay, I just find them exceptionally sloppy in their treble presentation.



I'm wondering ( it may be a stupid thought) if you recieved a sub par pair of nines. Given the relative small number of people ( I can think of 3 consistently ) who don't care for them I wonder if it's down to QC issues. You're obviously not a crank, rabbel rouser and always clearly and concisely articulate what you hear. Just a thought, although with so many good kz's it would be hard to justify getting a new pair for comparision.


----------



## The Apostle

Something else I've noticed in looking at these ED3 versions. 

The ED3c is Blue or Red and says The Acme on it. 
The ED3 is Black and says Perfection on it. 
The ED3 S3 is Silver and says The Acme on it.


----------



## Ruben123

sgl54 said:


> I'm wondering ( it may be a stupid thought) if you recieved a sub par pair of nines. Given the relative small number of people ( I can think of 3 consistently ) who don't care for them I wonder if it's down to QC issues. You're obviously not a crank, rabbel rouser and always clearly and concisely articulate what you hear. Just a thought, although with so many good kz's it would be hard to justify getting a new pair for comparision.


 

 Many have their filters inside the nozzle not entirely flat which causes it to sound way too bright. A simple trick makes them warmer and far less harsh.


----------



## sgl54

ruben123 said:


> Many have their filters inside the nozzle not entirely flat which causes it to sound way too bright. A simple trick makes them warmer and far less harsh.



I've heard that some had fiter issues, not placed correctly ( not seated flat) of filters occluding the vents ( I checked mine when came up even though I had no sound issues). Definatly worth checking. Another great thing about the 9's easy to mainenece. Great suggestion, wish I'd remembered to mention it to b9


----------



## sgl54

the apostle said:


> Something else I've noticed in looking at these ED3 versions.
> 
> The ED3c is Blue or Red and says The Acme on it.
> The ED3 is Black and says Perfection on it.
> The ED3 S3 is Silver and says The Acme on it.



Is the sound different on the black perfection? On the silvers there was a difference between the Acme and Perfection. I don't have both to compare any longer but find I like the "Acme" better so just wondering if it was a face plate issue or if it has the earlier perfection internals.


----------



## cr0wnest

the apostle said:


> Something else I've noticed in looking at these ED3 versions.
> 
> The ED3c is Blue or Red and says The Acme on it.
> The ED3 is Black and says Perfection on it.
> The ED3 S3 is Silver and says The Acme on it.


 
  
  


sgl54 said:


> Is the sound different on the black perfection? On the silvers there was a difference between the Acme and Perfection. I don't have both to compare any longer but find I like the "Acme" better so just wondering if it was a face plate issue or if it has the earlier perfection internals.


 

 I think the sound difference is due to the newer ED3c having a different driver and sound tuning as mentioned in the product images. For better or worse, I've no idea as I've yet to try anything in the ED3 series. I just ordered an ED3c (Red) and we'll see how it goes, maybe I'll try the S3 next time. I still got to wait for my ZS1 and ED11.


----------



## The Apostle

The lack of informational clarity with this brand us utterly mind boggling.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sgl54 said:


> I'm wondering ( it may be a stupid thought) if you recieved a sub par pair of nines. Given the relative small number of people ( I can think of 3 consistently ) who don't care for them I wonder if it's down to QC issues. You're obviously not a crank, rabbel rouser and always clearly and concisely articulate what you hear. Just a thought, although with so many good kz's it would be hard to justify getting a new pair for comparision.







ruben123 said:


> Many have their filters inside the nozzle not entirely flat which causes it to sound way too bright. A simple trick makes them warmer and far less harsh.







sgl54 said:


> I've heard that some had fiter issues, not placed correctly ( not seated flat) of filters occluding the vents ( I checked mine when came up even though I had no sound issues). Definatly worth checking. Another great thing about the 9's easy to mainenece. Great suggestion, wish I'd remembered to mention it to b9




Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

I actually had two pairs of ED9s (gave the 2nd pair to my cousin). One with the Tuna packaging, one in the snazzy KZ packaging. The Tuna pair (my primary) do not have mesh inside the housing covering the driver. Despite this difference and greater number of hours on my Tuna pair I found no significant sonic differences between the two sets. 

My pair did not have the filter paper seated correctly (brass filters), which I found out about a month after ownership. Once I realized the issue and fixed it I found the brass filters much more listenable (and ditched my blue mod changes). Still prefer the gold nozzles overall.

I'm pretty picky about treble and like it to be sharp and precise. To my ears the ED9 doesn't quite cut it. I've tried tip rolling, filter mods, different insertion angles, depths, etc, but nope, nothing. Maybe they just don't play well with my ear canals?

I know they're good which is why I recommend (and gift) them, they just don't sound as good to me as I know they can be. Hope that makes sense, haha.


----------



## sgl54

cr0wnest said:


> I think the sound difference is due to the newer ED3c having a different driver and sound tuning as mentioned in the product images. For better or worse, I've no idea as I've yet to try anything in the ED3 series. I just ordered an ED3c (Red) and we'll see how it goes, maybe I'll try the S3 next time. I still got to wait for my ZS1 and ED11.



Well I know there is a difference between the ED3 " Pefection" and ED3 "Acme" different drivers. The "perfection" I found was phone I just never used, didn't sound bad just not at the level of the others. So sent it off to the wilds of south/ central America .


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
> 
> I actually had two pairs of ED9s (gave the 2nd pair to my cousin). One with the Tuna packaging, one in the snazzy KZ packaging. The Tuna pair (my primary) do not have mesh inside the housing covering the driver. Despite this difference and greater number of hours on my Tuna pair I found no significant sonic differences between the two sets.
> 
> ...



There you go, see your not just another crank, you implemented all the fixes even tried a new pair and they just don't work for you. Obviously one size does not fit all.


----------



## DaveLT

If anyone here lives in Singapore and wants to get an S3 get in touch with me I will help you get one.


----------



## horribol

horribol said:


> I'm looking for some advice. I bought some IEM to gift my siblings. I bought 1 kz ate, 1 kz ed9 and 2 pistons 3. I'm looking for recommendations of what pair should i give them.
> 
> Both of my sisters listen to a lot of boy/girl bands and all the mainstream pop singers. The older of them has a slightly wider range, she'll sometimes listen to some rock bands and some electronic.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry if it's the wrong place to post this, but I wrote it in the Chinese Info Thread and got ignored  . Hopefully someone can help me chose, or at least give me a brief rundown of what genre each IEM caters to.


----------



## cr0wnest

I think the ED9 will do just fine for all of them, plus the changable nozzles will let them choose whichever sound they prefer. The ATE might sound too warm and boomy for them unless thats what they like, furthermore they might not like the hassle of having to wrap a wire over the ear, its a design not everyone will appreciate. The mids on the ED9 (Either nozzle) is waaaay clearer for podcasts too. Never tried the Pistons so I cant say.


----------



## DaveLT

cr0wnest said:


> I think the ED9 will do just fine for all of them, plus the changable nozzles will let them choose whichever sound they prefer. The ATE might sound too warm and boomy for them unless thats what they like, furthermore they might not like the hassle of having to wrap a wire over the ear, its a design not everyone will appreciate. The mids on the ED9 (Either nozzle) is waaaay clearer for podcasts too. Never tried the Pistons so I cant say.


 
 Maki-chan, we like similar signatures so you'll probably hate any Pistons.
  
 Pistons 2.1 : Lacks detail, recessed mids, crazy bumped mid treble (Hurts my ears), boomy bottom
 Pistons 3.0 : Lacks detail, still slightly recessed mids but finally no boomy bottom. But lacks detail or any sparkle.
 Hybrid : Lacks detail, heavily recessed mids and to hell with the treble. Controlled bottom but too much of it leading to darkness.


----------



## cr0wnest

davelt said:


> Maki-chan, we like similar signatures so you'll probably hate any Pistons.
> 
> Pistons 2.1 : Lacks detail, recessed mids, crazy bumped mid treble (Hurts my ears), boomy bottom
> Pistons 3.0 : Lacks detail, still slightly recessed mids but finally no boomy bottom. But lacks detail or any sparkle.
> Hybrid : Lacks detail, heavily recessed mids and to hell with the treble. Controlled bottom but too much of it leading to darkness.


 
  
 LOL damn I can forget about giving those Pistons a try then.

 Anyway I doubt his siblings will care enough to notice any difference between the earphones. My own sister, despite being a musician, can't even tell the very noticeable difference between 3 very different sounding earphones. And she has no idea what low end, mid range, and highs are, let alone describe a sound signature. So unless his siblings are even remotely audiophile, chances are they will just pick the earphones based on looks and not care about the sound. Though the one who listens to a lot of podcasts might want something with clearer mids.


----------



## DaveLT

cr0wnest said:


> LOL damn I can forget about giving those Pistons a try then.
> 
> Anyway I doubt his siblings will care enough to notice any difference between the earphones. My own sister, despite being a musician, can't even tell the very noticeable difference between 3 very different sounding earphones. And she has no idea what low end, mid range, and highs are, let alone describe a sound signature. So unless his siblings are even remotely audiophile, chances are they will just pick the earphones based on looks and not care about the sound. Though the one who listens to a lot of podcasts might want something with clearer mids.


 
 For some reason I as a true audiohead (Audiophile is pretty snobbish) am very bad at being a musician. But as a mixer I'm okay.
  
 I think the Pistons 3 is the clearest of them all but the S3 is leaps and bounds over any Xiaomi Pistons or Hybrid.


----------



## 1clearhead

davelt said:


> For some reason I as a true audiohead (Audiophile is pretty snobbish) am very bad at being a musician. But as a mixer I'm okay.
> 
> I think the Pistons 3 is the clearest of them all but the S3 is leaps and bounds over any Xiaomi Pistons or Hybrid.


 
 +1  Yes! Different ears....same conclusion. *S3 is a winner! *


----------



## CADCAM

1clearhead said:


> A lot of people hype headphones, whether they're in-ear, on-ear, or over-ear. Let me clarify, that I rather listen to a head-fier that brought the product that gives their opinion on this thread than to listen to a seller that really is just out to sell you what little they know about the product and are not enthusiast about the tonality and sound as we are. Most of them are just Chinese vendors out of China giving themselves English names to sell from Aliexpress. You should really keep that in mind.
> 
> 
> I have the different versions......here is a link that should pretty much sell you the exact S3 version, whether you want it in black, or blue.
> ...


 
  I bought these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
 What version are they? Are these the ones that supposedly have the best sq?
  
 I also bought these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html but was told these are just an old version...


----------



## cr0wnest

cadcam said:


> I bought these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
> What version are they? Are these the ones that supposedly have the best sq?
> 
> I also bought these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html but was told these are just an old version...


 
 The first one is the ED3c, also known as the Youth Version. The second one is the normal ED3. The former is supposed to have improved drivers and sound, as mentioned in the product images. But none of those are the S3 which is said to have the best sound among the three.


----------



## Igor Eisberg

cr0wnest said:


> The first one is the ED3c, also known as the Youth Version. The second one is the normal ED3. The former is supposed to have improved drivers and sound, as mentioned in the product images. But none of those are the S3 which is said to have the best sound among the three.


 
  
 About the name, it's quite the opposite. ED3 Youth Version is the official name given by KZ. "ED3c" is a typo or a marketing trick by a single AliExpress seller. "ED3c" doesn't really exist.


----------



## Ruben123

Been listening to my Monoprice 8320 earphones again ($7) and to be fair Id rate them quite a bit higher than ED9 with brass filters. If youre in the US go get them.


----------



## jms74

Hi.
I got a bunch of sub 60 euros earphones like :
SoundMagic e10, XiaoMi Piston 2.1, XiaoMi Piston 3, XiaoMi Hybrid, VJJB V1s, VSonic VSD3s, Sony MDR-ex55lp, etc..

I'm looking to explore KZ products and would like someone to tell me about them, there are so many KZ products that im kinda lost.
And most people who buy KZ and write reviews for them on online shops aren't very sound quality wise and mostly everything works for them.
Can any one tell me about their various sound signatures so I can choose where to start on KZ products?

Enviado do meu A0001 através de Tapatalk


----------



## DaveLT

krash183 said:


> Completely false, I tried quite a few kz and the variance between sets is ridiculous one hds1 will sound totally different than another hds1. Hybrids aren't great but but the piston 2.0 and 2.1 are great. Better than any kz without a doubt.


 
 I bought two S3 and they sound exactly the same. Your point is?


----------



## cr0wnest

igor eisberg said:


> About the name, it's quite the opposite. ED3 Youth Version is the official name given by KZ. "ED3c" is a typo or a marketing trick by a single AliExpress seller. "ED3c" doesn't really exist.


 
  
 Damnit why can't those people just call it one thing and leave it as that? If you do a search on ED3c and ED3 Youth you get different search results to the same product, it makes you wonder what is going on.


----------



## 1clearhead

cadcam said:


> I bought these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
> What version are they? Are these the ones that supposedly have the best sq?
> 
> I also bought these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html but was told these are just an old version...


 
  
 They're both good, but they can not give you the treble and resolution the S3 provides even if you try to "tip-roll" them. I tried many times. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


cr0wnest said:


> Damnit why can't those people just call it one thing and leave it as that? If you do a search on ED3c and ED3 Youth you get different search results to the same product, it makes you wonder what is going on.


 
  
 I know, I know, these vendors can never get it right. Even, the company just throws-in too many versions of each KZ. Is all about making money and profits.


----------



## robervaul

2015 is not over yet.
 My wallet can not keep up.

 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-EDR2-Strong-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Metal-Clear-Sound-Music-Wired-Hifi-Headset/32584175673.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.eskH4w&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_4,searchweb201644_4_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_4


----------



## noef

What is the sound sig of the S3? And how does it compare to the hds1?


----------



## TwinACStacks

It's all opinion but I still to this day maintain that these are the finest KZ Earphones.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-End-KZ-ANV-Enthusiast-In-ear-buds-Noise-Isolating-HCEJ-026-2015/32511250688.html?spm=2114.01020208.8.23.h2AZHC
  
 Gotten a Tad bit expensive haven't they?
  
 Shame they are so uncomfortable to me personally, I would use them a Lot.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Charliemotta

twinacstacks said:


> It's all opinion but I still to this day maintain that these are the finest KZ Earphones.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-End-KZ-ANV-Enthusiast-In-ear-buds-Noise-Isolating-HCEJ-026-2015/32511250688.html?spm=2114.01020208.8.23.h2AZHC
> 
> ...


 
 Yes they are very good. I bought 2 pairs over a year ago but they were no where near that price!


----------



## TwinACStacks

charliemotta said:


> Yes they are very good. I bought 2 pairs over a year ago but they were no where near that price!


 






 Yeah, I know Charlie I paid $11 or $13 for them I think. Apparently there were 2 Versions floating around Pre and Post 2013 with the Post being quite a bit better.
  
 It's Why I keep them in a Case instead of the Drawer. I figure when they hit $150 on Aliexpress I will put them on Ebay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Money in the Bank.
  








 TWIN


----------



## DaveLT

On that note, I shall buy more HDS1 or S3 or ATN (Yes the ZN1 Mini is now called ATN) and watch the values fly up in the future 
 These are the ones to look out for.


----------



## TwinACStacks

davelt said:


> On that note, I shall buy more HDS1 or S3 or ATN (Yes the ZN1 Mini is now called ATN) and watch the values fly up in the future
> These are the ones to look out for.


 





 Thanx Dave. Sounds like a plan.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Maxima7

> Shame they are so uncomfortable to me personally, I would use them a Lot.


 
 Weird. I can wear them all day, and I do. LOL
  
 Nice to see them going up. I bought at $8.


----------



## Maxima7

> On that note, I shall buy more HDS1 or S3 or ATN (Yes the ZN1 Mini is now called ATN) and watch the values fly up in the future


 
 Dave, I don't think that plan will work because I believe I read on the ANV description that there can be no more improvement of the model. I don't think KZ will ever be done rehashing ed3s, ed9s and all that crap. lol


----------



## DaveLT

maxima7 said:


> Dave, I don't think that plan will work because I believe I read on the ANV description that there can be no more improvement of the model. I don't think KZ will ever be done rehashing ed3s, ed9s and all that crap. lol


 
 You never know


----------



## anticute

Okay, so received ED4 (two pairs, for some reason, only ordered one..) and HDS1. 
  
 OOTB: ED4 - meh, HDS1 - oh yeah 
  
 I'll give some more impressions when I've had some more time with them


----------



## cr0wnest

robervaul said:


> 2015 is not over yet.
> My wallet can not keep up.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-KZ-EDR2-Strong-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Metal-Clear-Sound-Music-Wired-Hifi-Headset/32584175673.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.eskH4w&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_4,searchweb201644_4_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_4


 
  
 Ain't that the same as these http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-ed2-music-headset-phone-headset-HIFI-headphones-bass-headset-metal-earphone/32236207796.html?spm=2114.031010208.3.3.UFE6qo&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_4,searchweb201644_1_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_5 But not in gold? Btw, the ED Special Edition is pretty good. Slightly recessed mids, and muffled bass, but otherwise I think its still better than the ATE-S and probably even the ED9 because the highs arent as piercing.


----------



## DangerClose

yangian said:


> Well, I admit 8320 is better for opera and maybe piano and violin solo, but not for symphonies/orchestra.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any other opinions on 8320 soundstage size vs. various KZs?  I'm trying to think of reasons to get a KZ instead of an 8320.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I only have the EDR1 at the moment.


----------



## HiFiChris

cr0wnest said:


> robervaul said:
> 
> 
> > 2015 is not over yet.
> ...


 


 I'm with you regarding the preference and tonal description (despite ER9's piercing highs which I don't get), but it seems the IEMs in the link are the second generation, like the ATE-S.

 Would be nice if these 2ng gen EDSE would have a less soft bass, as that's pretty much my only complaint.


----------



## cr0wnest

hifichris said:


> I'm with you regarding the preference and tonal description (despite ER9's piercing highs which I don't get), but it seems the IEMs in the link are the second generation, like the ATE-S.
> 
> Would be nice if these 2ng gen EDSE would have a less soft bass, as that's pretty much my only complaint.


 
 I would like to see a 2nd gen EDSE too, it could have a more balanced sound signature. But currently I think it already offers some of the best value on the KZ lineup. I just bought a second pair for  even lower at 6 USD and gave the first one to my dad for use in the office.
  
 The ED9's (Both gold and brass nozzles) are both harsh to me, though the golds are a tad worse. I was quite impressed with the brass nozzles, great sound stage and clarity which ironically is also the reason why I find them so harsh to listen to on some tracks. Perhaps it has to do with the music I listen to. My library mostly involves J-POP like this

  
 First thing you might notice is how piercing female vocals are in JPOP, cant really be helped since they're all like that. And Japanese recordings tend to be more on the treble side where as the classic rock and blues genre which I also listen to are much mellower like this.

  
 Its tracks like these where the ED9 really sounds amazing rather than a swarm of bees. But I would prefer to have a one size fits all IEM that I can take out everywhere I go.


----------



## The Apostle

I know this is a KZ thread but I found these on Teresa's page. Are these Monster Turbine Knock Offs?New Original Gold Domineering Bass In-ear Headphones Earphones Bass Headset Listens Fever Imports Pole DIY Unit Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/yQvEJniu
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## cr0wnest

the apostle said:


> I know this is a KZ thread but I found these on Teresa's page. Are these Monster Turbine Knock Offs?New Original Gold Domineering Bass In-ear Headphones Earphones Bass Headset Listens Fever Imports Pole DIY Unit Free Shipping
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yQvEJniu
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
  
 Most likely knock offs, but given Monster's reputation when it comes to headphones... Don't be surprised if these sound better than their original counterpart


----------



## TwinACStacks

cr0wnest said:


> Most likely knock offs, but given Monster's reputation when it comes to headphones... Don't be surprised if these sound better than their original counterpart


 





 Oh snap. I would include "Beats" stuff in there too.
  








 TWIN


----------



## The Apostle

The beats stuff was garbage for sure. But to my understanding, Monster branded stuff was better. I believe they tried to be different with the sound signatures. In some instances I have read, even on this board that the Turbines were decent IEM's.


----------



## DaveLT

Monster is decent actually that's why their copies (of which there are a lot! Even KZ had copied it at one point) are all over the place.

Beats? Not so much. Absolute trash. 
Monster cables? Overpriced nonsense


----------



## 1clearhead

the apostle said:


> The beats stuff was garbage for sure. But to my understanding, Monster branded stuff was better. I believe they tried to be different with the sound signatures. In some instances I have read, even on this board that the Turbines were decent IEM's.


 
  
 Monster were pretty decent......at least the difference between these and the beats was unanimous for sure.
  


davelt said:


> Monster is decent actually that's why their copies (of which there are a lot! Even KZ had copied it at one point) are all over the place.
> 
> Beats? Not so much. Absolute trash.
> Monster cables? Overpriced nonsense


 
  
 Beats were famous for selling crappy plastic. That's it! .....even some of the fakes performed better than the originals. They probably fell apart before finishing the burn-in process.


----------



## XEEE

I have the Havi B3 Pro1, and was looking for another IEM with a little bit more bass.
 I have been reading the thread about the Xiaomi Hybrids and this thread, but there are so many models of the KZ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 What do you guys recommend in the $20 range?


----------



## Ruben123

xeee said:


> I have the Havi B3 Pro1, and was looking for another IEM with a little bit more bass.
> I have been reading the thread about the Xiaomi Hybrids and this thread, but there are so many models of the KZ
> 
> 
> ...


 

 HDS1 comes closest to Havi, not per se because of its mids, but more because of the not so harsh highs and balanced sound signature.


----------



## Ruben123

So how is the KZ ZN1 Mini? Could someone elaborate? Is it really that balanced?
  
 Also I came across the KZ C56R for around $5, whats it?


----------



## DaveLT

I bought it. It's on it's way.
  
 That's a cheap KZ. But wait, is that the old logo I'm seeing? Yes it is, it's on the first post of this thread.
 The ED3 is on aliexpress for 6$
  


1clearhead said:


> Monster were pretty decent......at least the difference between these and the beats was unanimous for sure.
> 
> 
> Beats were famous for selling crappy plastic. That's it! .....even some of the fakes performed better than the originals. They probably fell apart before finishing the burn-in process.


 
  
 Well when you get a crackpot to associate with the company was never going to go well. My friend definitely wants to fight with me over the fact that I said beats are horribly badly made.


----------



## Ruben123

davelt said:


> I bought it. It's on it's way.
> 
> That's a cheap KZ. But wait, is that the old logo I'm seeing? Yes it is, it's on the first post of this thread.


 
 Lol i see.


----------



## Chaoscillator

After seeing DaveLT's post in the Piston 3 thread I was brought here. I'm interested in buying the S3's, is this the definitive place to get them? I saw a few posts here saying there are only a couple of sellers. Are these legit?

 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.35.Eot04E&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_2_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_3


----------



## The Apostle

That is the link I have saved but I have not yet purchased.


----------



## DaveLT

chaoscillator said:


> After seeing DaveLT's post in the Piston 3 thread I was brought here. I'm interested in buying the S3's, is this the definitive place to get them? I saw a few posts here saying there are only a couple of sellers. Are these legit?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.35.Eot04E&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_2_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_3




Perhaps there are people who ordered it but this being new they haven't received it yet.


----------



## fairx

Just received my Kz ATE. From banggood. Although I paid extra dollar to get it shipped early I actually received them later than other same day order but free shipping. Lousy service I should say. Better get it free and save your dollar if you guys ordering from banggood. 

OOTB they sound massive V. Mids recessed heavily. So far no sibilance. Bass pretty fast. High rolled off quite early but not bad. Will finish my work and rolling tips after this. How much burn until noticeable in Sq? Or they simply don't? Hehe.


----------



## DaveLT

krash183 said:


> Point is that your review of pistons is completely off base. Not even close to accurate



I'm not the first one to say THE HYBRID is dark. 
I said the Piztons 2.1 is too harsh and lacks clarity. the 3.0, lacks clarity but still quite recessed mids with a fair amount of veiling

Consider yourself outvoted. I bought 2 2.1 with very different times and they sound exactly the same, more of the same harshness at 4KHz


----------



## aaDee

Guys guys guys.....why argue when you are not using same source/ eq settings for music.


----------



## B9Scrambler

aadee said:


> Guys guys guys.....why argue when you are not using same source/ eq settings for music.




Why argue period? As it has been said a million times over everyone hears things differently, and we all have our own OPINIONS. Have discussions, not arguements. Sheesh....Mods might as well lock the thread while you chums simmer down.


----------



## aaDee

b9scrambler said:


> Why argue period? As it has been said a million times over everyone hears things differently, and we all have our own OPINIONS. Have discussions, not arguements. Sheesh....Mods might as well lock the thread while you chums simmer down.


 

 +1


----------



## TwinACStacks

b9scrambler said:


> Why argue period? As it has been said a million times over everyone hears things differently, and we all have our own OPINIONS. Have discussions, not arguements. Sheesh....Mods might as well lock the thread while you chums simmer down.


 






 Yes. I agree. And since I seem to be the only one here that can hear worth a crap, You should all agree with me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  








 TWIN


----------



## Charliemotta

twinacstacks said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > Why argue period? As it has been said a million times over everyone hears things differently, and we all have our own OPINIONS. Have discussions, not arguements. Sheesh....Mods might as well lock the thread while you chums simmer down.
> ...


 
 Like my Grandma used to say to me.    "Somebody has potatoes in their ears".


----------



## fairx

Wow after half a day I found nice fit with medium bore tips and nozzle shoved deep. Now I really enjoyed the ATE. 

My only complaint is that it's not comfortable enough. The housing keep pressing my ear after 1/2 hour it's noticeable. Also the cable rubbery texture might get sticky over time. 

I like the lower treble presence that missing on my soundmagic e80. Zero sibilance. Although not enough clarity / focus. Bass a bit boosted. Less impactful but adequate. Eq to bass reducer transform it into analytical sounds. Mids not as sweet as xiaomi hybrid but the high is better. 

Overall, separation is ok. Not coherent but not bad either. Depth too. Transparency And detail is quite good but again lack clarity and focus. I also wish the dynamic could be better

For it's worth I like it more than xiaomi hybrid.


----------



## B9Scrambler

twinacstacks said:


> Yes. I agree. And since I seem to be the only one here that can hear worth a crap, You should all agree with me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The voice of reason, always cropping up at the right time. 
  
 I decided to pull out the HDS2 again to give them a second chance. They still kinda suck...rolled off treble, veiled mids, blah. I liked them ootb, but the more time I spend with them the less impressive they get. They're without a doubt one of my least favorite KZs at this point. Very disappointing follow up to the HDS1, ED3 "The Acme", and the ZS1.


----------



## Wokei

KZ ANV ...boom


----------



## Ruben123

wokei said:


> KZ ANV ...boom


 

 If THAT is the version youre all talking about I can understand why I didnt like mine! Mine came in a totally different package, just like the early EDSE. No foam and only 3 pairs of tips. (and they came from official flagship store and they told me it was the latest version)


----------



## TwinACStacks

ruben123 said:


> If THAT is the version youre all talking about I can understand why I didnt like mine! Mine came in a totally different package, just like the early EDSE. No foam and only 3 pairs of tips.


 





 Shoot Yeah. That Package is worth the extra $40 more than what I paid for mine in that little shield-shaped Plastic Box.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just teasing Master Wokei. Let me know how you like my Favorite KZs.
  








 TWIN


----------



## Chaoscillator

I think I'll just bite the bullet and buy the S3's from that Aliexpress store. We'll see how I like them in comparison to the Piston 3's.

 Does anyone know which KZ's are definitely worth getting? I was also looking at the ED9, HDS1, ZS1 and ATE. Which pair should I add when I buy the S3?


----------



## Wokei

ruben123 said:


> If THAT is the version youre all talking about I can understand why I didnt like mine! Mine came in a totally different package, just like the early EDSE. No foam and only 3 pairs of tips. (and they came from official flagship store and they told me it was the latest version)


 
  
 Me got them in early 2013 and it came in some nice packaging......
  
  

  

  
  


twinacstacks said:


> Shoot Yeah. That Package is worth the extra $40 more than what I paid for mine in that little shield-shaped Plastic Box.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Always like them ...built quality top notch ,,,,fitting could be problematic for some me assume with small ear canal ,,,,sound wise excellent for its price ....me like the brightness and have no problem with the high ...very forward sounding with good bass impact provided the fitting is good that is something me can attest to ,,,,,overall one of me fav..
  
 Oh another thing ...you guys need to chill out and stop all this one up ...not doing any good to those looking to get into KZ IEM ...not cool at all ....you like it ,,,you dont like it .....what does it matter ....more love and not getting your ego bruised over a few type words ....


----------



## joemama

chaoscillator said:


> I think I'll just bite the bullet and buy the S3's from that Aliexpress store. We'll see how I like them in comparison to the Piston 3's.
> 
> Does anyone know which KZ's are definitely worth getting? I was also looking at the ED9, HDS1, ZS1 and ATE. Which pair should I add when I buy the S3?


 

 If picking just one, I'd get the HDS1. They'll compliment the S3s nicely. If you want more bass, get the ZS1.


----------



## CADCAM

Has anyone got the black ED9? Just wanted to ask if they sound the same as the chrome...


----------



## CADCAM

joemama said:


> If picking just one, I'd get the HDS1. They'll compliment the S3s nicely. If you want more bass, get the ZS1.


 
 I'd get either the HDS1 or ED9...do you have the S3?
  
 checked your profile btw Widespread Panic fan here also!


----------



## Arsis

cadcam said:


> I'd get either the HDS1 or ED9...do you have the S3?
> 
> checked your profile btw Widespread Panic fan here also!



Panic/Dead/Phish fan here too.


----------



## CADCAM

BTW listened to some Kristen Hall yesterday on the EDSE...weird good. Something with the EDSE's sound sig and Hall's recording just sounded unlike I've ever heard it. It was different but very good. The EDSE is a good cheap IEM that sounds better than it costs...but I guess you could say that about every KZ though.


----------



## Chaoscillator

I bought myself some S3's and HDS1's. Thanks guys!


----------



## noef

Ive bought the HDS1 and the whirlwind tips from the ED10 too. Anyone know if these fit?


----------



## B9Scrambler

noef said:


> Ive bought the HDS1 and the whirlwind tips from the ED10 too. Anyone know if these fit?




The HDS1 has a smaller than average nozzle. The whirlwinds will be too large unfortunately.


----------



## joemama

cadcam said:


> I'd get either the HDS1 or ED9...do you have the S3?
> 
> checked your profile btw Widespread Panic fan here also!


 
 Just got S3 on Monday and still deciding whether I like it or the ED Youth edition more.
  
 Widespread is one of my bucket bands. Never seen them but got a few friends that collect and tape (uh record) them.
  
  


arsis said:


> Panic/Dead/Phish fan here too.


 
  
 I was wondering when the GD and Phish heads were gonna show up. I felt like the odd man out.


----------



## Arsis

joemama said:


> Just got S3 on Monday and still deciding whether I like it or the ED Youth edition more.
> 
> Widespread is one of my bucket bands. Never seen them but got a few friends that collect and tape (uh record) them.
> 
> ...


I'm a "MetalHippie". I love a wide variety except rap and twang country. Started going to Panic shows 22 years ago in college. Saw the Dead with Jerry. Went to Chicago for "Fare thee Well" and recently The Dead & Co. in Atlanta. I wonder if there are enough of us here to support a show swapping thread.


----------



## CADCAM

joemama said:


> Just got S3 on Monday and still deciding whether I like it or the ED Youth edition more.
> 
> Widespread is one of my bucket bands. Never seen them but got a few friends that collect and tape (uh record) them.
> 
> ...


 
 I got these~
  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3M-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
  
 Wonder if I should bother with the S3...


----------



## 1clearhead

cadcam said:


> I got these~
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3M-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
> 
> Wonder if I should bother with the S3...


 

 I got the "Youth Version" and the "S3".
  
 To make it easy for you.....the Youth Version was shelved months ago after receiving my S3. The Youth Version hasn't seen the light of day ever since.


----------



## joemama

arsis said:


> I'm a "MetalHippie". I love a wide variety except rap and twang country. Started going to Panic shows 22 years ago in college. Saw the Dead with Jerry. Went to Chicago for "Fare thee Well" and recently The Dead & Co. in Atlanta. I wonder if there are enough of us here to support a show swapping thread.


 

 subscribed


----------



## CADCAM

1clearhead said:


> I got the "Youth Version" and the "S3".
> 
> To make it easy for you.....the Youth Version was shelved months ago after receiving my S3. The Youth Version hasn't seen the light of day ever since.


 
 I think you may have already posted it but could you post a link to where you bought yours? Wanna get the right ones this time.


----------



## CADCAM

arsis said:


> I'm a "MetalHippie". I love a wide variety except rap and twang country. Started going to Panic shows 22 years ago in college. Saw the Dead with Jerry. Went to Chicago for "Fare thee Well" and recently The Dead & Co. in Atlanta. I wonder if there are enough of us here to support a show swapping thread.


 
 I grew up on a steady diet of great metal...Fates Warning is still one of my favorite bands. Now I listen to classical, fusion jazz and folk etc. What a trip.


----------



## 1clearhead

cadcam said:


> I think you may have already posted it but could you post a link to where you bought yours? Wanna get the right ones this time.


 

 Sure, try these stores.....
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.3.Smukvz&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_4,searchweb201644_3_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_4
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-earphones-in-ear-bass-earphones-Rock-and-roll-tide-headphones-metal-mobile-phone-hifi/32541160753.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.11.zoSQx9&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_4,searchweb201644_3_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_4
  
 I got them from here.....
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.20.pa3mI0&id=522205167561&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail
  
  
 Hope this helps....


----------



## ezekiel77

1clearhead said:


> Sure, try these stores.....


 
  
 Thanks for the links! I for one am a bit afraid to venture out of the official flagship store.


----------



## DaveLT

I just got the HDS1. 
 Hmm ... slightly emphasized bass, mids are way too forward and there's slight sibilance but clarity ... nah.
  
 It is is comparably poor compared to the S3.


----------



## Ruben123

Asked the official store for what the zn1 mini actually sounds like and they replied that it is the zn1 without amp box. It sounds exactly the same as zn1 with amp disabled. 
Understood that that means lot of bass so I pass. Wonder what the zn1 differs from zs1 then.


----------



## DaveLT

ruben123 said:


> Asked the official store for what the zn1 mini actually sounds like and they replied that it is the zn1 without amp box. It sounds exactly the same as zn1 with amp disabled.
> Understood that that means lot of bass so I pass. Wonder what the zn1 differs from zs1 then.


 
 The ZS1 is the ZN1 with a lot of bass, not the other way round. The ZN1 with the amp disabled actually is neutral according to the earlier posts.


----------



## Ruben123

davelt said:


> The ZS1 is the ZN1 with a lot of bass, not the other way round. The ZN1 with the amp disabled actually is neutral according to the earlier posts.


 

 According to earlier posts (and Scott) the ZN1 with amp enabled (bass -1 and treble +1) is neutral and the bass should bleed a bit in the mids.


----------



## joemama

davelt said:


> I just got the HDS1.
> Hmm ... slightly emphasized bass, mids are way too forward and there's slight sibilance but clarity ... nah.
> 
> It is is comparably poor compared to the S3.


 

 Have you burned them in?


----------



## Ruben123

davelt said:


> I just got the HDS1.
> Hmm ... slightly emphasized bass, mids are way too forward and there's slight sibilance but clarity ... nah.
> 
> It is is comparably poor compared to the S3.


 

 lol or your taste is way off or you have -just as the ed10 which quite a few like- again a lemon. There is no sibilance and the mids are not forward at all, just quite balanced all.


----------



## HiFiChris

ruben123 said:


> Wonder what the zn1 differs from zs1 then.


 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone/reviews/14605


----------



## DaveLT

ruben123 said:


> lol or your taste is way off or you have -just as the ed10 which quite a few like- again a lemon. There is no sibilance and the mids are not forward at all, just quite balanced all.


 
 I realized my folly when i noticed the tip is S size. /facepalm
  
 It's pretty good it's better than the EDR1/ED2/EDSE but the S3 still reigns over it.


----------



## Ruben123

hifichris said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone/reviews/14605


 

 Thanks! Would you take ZN1 mini over HDS1 when looking for any balanced sound?


----------



## HiFiChris

ZN1 is far from sounding balanced, it has a hefty bass emphasis (not that it is bad, but not balanced at all). HDS1 is really good and also fairly balanced (http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver/reviews/14607). The only disadvantage is that the soundstage is fairly small (ZN1's is huge).


----------



## Ruben123

hifichris said:


> ZN1 is far from sounding balanced, it has a hefty bass emphasis (not that it is bad, but not balanced at all). HDS1 is really good and also fairly balanced (http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver/reviews/14607). The only disadvantage is that the soundstage is fairly small (ZN1's is huge).


 

 Thanks, I will keep it with the hds1 then!


----------



## fairx

I finally understand the missing lower treble on my soundmagic. Compared e80 to Ate, the missing part actually there on close listening. What's missing from ate are depth, so it simply forward the sound because it failed to manifest the depth properly. Same with xiaomi hybrids. Obviously the e80 way superior. 

But my friend who own am IE80 tried my ATE and he actually said it's more comfortable than his Sennheiser...??


----------



## noef

edit: wrong thread.


----------



## Georg

Hi guys,
  
 Regarding the *KZ ED10* which many people have said are the bee's knees...
  
 I find the *mid range veiled*. I also notice a lack of hi-frequency extension resulting in *lack of sparkle*.
  
 They _are_ very acceptable at lower frequencies, however.
  
 So, does anyone else share the same view _*and*_, if so, could you please recommend another KZ earphone which doesn't feature the same veiling ?
  
 Thanks (...and a happy new year 2016!)


----------



## DaveLT

georg said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Regarding the *KZ ED10* which many people have said are the bee's knees...
> 
> ...


 
 Which I didn't ... for me it is the worst KZ I've heard of all my entire inventory but in my experience it's too sparkly. Plus a veiled mid range.


----------



## chompchomps

davelt said:


> If anyone here lives in Singapore and wants to get an S3 get in touch with me I will help you get one.


 
  
 im thinking of importing it from taobao for 30 yuan.. any other better way? always nice to see Singaporeans around


----------



## chompchomps

So ive gotten down to putting the S3, the ATN and the ZS1 in my cart. Any significant sonic difference between the ATN and the ZS1? Does the HDS1 deserve a place in there?


----------



## DaveLT

chompchomps said:


> im thinking of importing it from taobao for 30 yuan.. any other better way? always nice to see Singaporeans around


 
 No better way. If you want to buy it from taobao do it. 
  
 (PS : The best fuss free way is to use a agent like 65daigou, I do the "ship for me" service to save money)
  


chompchomps said:


> So ive gotten down to putting the S3, the ATN and the ZS1 in my cart. Any significant sonic difference between the ATN and the ZS1? Does the HDS1 deserve a place in there?


 
  
 The ZS1 is incredibly bassy if you like your music bassy.
 The ATN (ZN1 Mini) haven't been tried since it's still at the warehouse
 You would be best off buying just the ATN and the S3


----------



## chompchomps

Thanks @DaveLT i think they would be my first buys of the year. Next would probablybe the LZ-A2 or the JVC's Fxt90 or Fxh-30


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> lol or your taste is way off or you have -just as the ed10 which quite a few like- again a lemon. There is no sibilance and the mids are not forward at all, just quite balanced all.


 
 Agreed...this description does not sound like my HDS1. I have no sibilance unless listening to a sub par recording. Program material and associated equipment are major contributors to good sound. Then of course you need good hp's\speakers.


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> I realized my folly when i noticed the tip is S size. /facepalm
> 
> It's pretty good it's better than the EDR1/ED2/EDSE but the S3 still reigns over it.


 
 Didn't see this new post...guess I need to check out the S3. I think we need to spend some time with a new product before passing judgment on it and especially posting. I've had my ED3 Youth for over a week now and am still breaking them in and experimenting with tips.


----------



## Kevang

Is it still possible to buy the KZ-A1? I've looked at multiple sites (Aliexpress, Amazon, Gearbest, etc.) and there's no sign of them anywhere.


----------



## CADCAM

1clearhead said:


> Sure, try these stores.....
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.3.Smukvz&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_4,searchweb201644_3_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_4
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the links.
  
 I purchased the ED3 Youth in blue ~  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3M-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
  
 Are these different? I see they both say ED3 The Acme on the hp cap. It looks like the cable is the only difference other than housing color, mine is a multicolored cable and these look like the cable is covered in either black or blue. I like the look of the black cable.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Thanks for the links.
> 
> I purchased the ED3 Youth in blue ~  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3M-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
> 
> Are these different? I see they both say ED3 The Acme on the hp cap. It looks like the cable is the only difference other than housing color, mine is a multicolored cable and these look like the cable is covered in either black or blue. I like the look of the black cable.


 
  
 They're different, but the ED3 variant you got is still pretty darn good. You'll enjoy them


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> They're different, but the ED3 variant you got is still pretty darn good. You'll enjoy them


 
 Yea... I've been burning them in and swapping out tips. After a lengthy 2 day burn-in session this last time something definitely seemed to change. They sound much better now...better detail, nice lows and non fatiguing treble. They were a little hot in the treble and the bass was a bit much when I first got them.
 I've been listening to them almost exclusively the last couple days and the improvement is very much apparent. Just goes to show that burn-in works, as they sat playing without me taking a listen and they sound very different now. Another great KZ...my favorite now along with the ED9 and HDS1.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Yea... I've been burning them in and swapping out tips. After a lengthy 2 day burn-in session this last time something definitely seemed to change. They sound much better now...better detail, nice lows and non fatiguing treble. They were a little hot in the treble and the bass was a bit much when I first got them.
> I've been listening to them almost exclusively the last couple days and the improvement is very much apparent. Just goes to show that burn-in works, as they sat playing without me taking a listen and they sound very different now. Another great KZ...my favorite now along with the ED9 and HDS1.




Glad to know they grew on you. I detested them on first listen. They sounded no better than my CM9. Hollow, overly bassy....nasty. Threw on some DnB, played them overnight and tried them again the next morning. Much, much better. I put them up there with the best of the KZs, albeit as one of the better bassy options.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> They're different, but the ED3 variant you got is still pretty darn good. You'll enjoy them


 
 Is the S3 really an upgrade from the ED3 Youth Acme edition? I'll grab it if it is.


----------



## chompchomps

i think you can just grab the S3. impressions have been quite good along the way, its one of the most inexpensive ones there too. 30yuan? pshhh


----------



## DaveLT

cadcam said:


> Thanks for the links.
> 
> I purchased the ED3 Youth in blue ~  http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Latest-Design-KZ-ED3M-Youth-Version-In-Ear-Earphone-100-Original-KZ-Headphones-Metal-DIY/32501220286.html
> 
> Are these different? I see they both say ED3 The Acme on the hp cap. It looks like the cable is the only difference other than housing color, mine is a multicolored cable and these look like the cable is covered in either black or blue. I like the look of the black cable.


 
 The ED3 S3 and the Youth is different, the youth is in blue or red (probably not metal?) and the S3 is in silver or gray but with ordinary cables not rubber cables.
 Actually on aliexpress the "Perfection" is cheaper than the youth.


----------



## 1clearhead

cadcam said:


> Is the S3 really an upgrade from the ED3 Youth Acme edition? I'll grab it if it is.


 
  
 To give you an idea, the S3 sounds more like it belongs in the category of a more expensive range of IEM's. The presentation and soundstage is well balanced and can easily be used as monitors in your recordings. I have both the "S3" and the "Youth Version" and the S3 is superior to them -better presentation and soundstage, better details, clear MID's, and clean and accurate bass.
  


chompchomps said:


> i think you can just grab the S3. impressions have been quite good along the way, its one of the most inexpensive ones there too. 30yuan? pshhh


 
  
 BIG +1
  


davelt said:


> The ED3 S3 and the Youth is different, the youth is in blue or red (probably not metal?) and the S3 is in silver or gray but with ordinary cables not rubber cables.
> Actually on aliexpress the "Perfection" is cheaper than the youth.


 
  
 +1 .....DaveLT, and I (1clearhead), carry the S3 for quite a while now and I'm pretty sure we both vouch for the S3. They are that good!


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> The ED3 S3 and the Youth is different, the youth is in blue or red (probably not metal?) and the S3 is in silver or gray but with ordinary cables not rubber cables.
> Actually on aliexpress the "Perfection" is cheaper than the youth.




All ED3 models have a metal housing.


----------



## rmatech

Been looking to buy some xiaomi piston 2 earphones for a while, but now see they have been discontinued. Which model KZ is similar to these with good bass and clear sound?


----------



## DaveLT

rmatech said:


> Been looking to buy some xiaomi piston 2 earphones for a while, but now see they have been discontinued. Which model KZ is similar to these with good bass and clear sound?


 
 Pistons 2 ... having clear sound? It doesn't 
  
 If you want one that is easy to buy look for a ED3. I got mine at 6USD.


----------



## CADCAM

rmatech said:


> Been looking to buy some xiaomi piston 2 earphones for a while, but now see they have been discontinued. Which model KZ is similar to these with good bass and clear sound?


 
 You had to buy the Piston's from a reputable seller and pay a true retail price of $20+ or you got fakes. I have the Piston 2 and it is a very good hp for the price. I would look into a ED3 Acme Youth edition or even the ED9. The ED9 with gold nozzles is bassy as is the Piston.


----------



## Carlsan

1clearhead said:


> To give you an idea, the S3 sounds more like it belongs in the category of a more expensive range of IEM's. The presentation and soundstage is well balanced and can easily be used as monitors in your recordings. I have both the "S3" and the "Youth Version" and the S3 is superior to them -better presentation and soundstage, better details, clear MID's, and clean and accurate bass.
> 
> 
> BIG +1
> ...


 
 Are you referring to the "Special Edition", with the mesh like back? Those are really good.
 Anyone try the perfection? How does that one sound?


----------



## CADCAM

OK... just purchased the S3 from ~
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html
  
 I got the gray with black cable as I think it looks best. The ED3 Acme Youth are pretty impressive so I'm hoping the posts I've been reading are correct and these will be even better. I'll post impressions only after break-in and tip rolling. Hoping for another winner from KZ. 
  
 Current KZ inventory...
 Kz ED-9
 Kz HDS1
 Kz ATE
 Kz EDSE
 Kz ED3 Perfection
 Kz ED3 Acme Youth
 Kz ATE-S
 Kz ZS1
 Kz ED-10
 Kz CM9


----------



## CADCAM

carlsan said:


> Are you referring to the "Special Edition", with the mesh like back? Those are really good.
> Anyone try the perfection? How does that one sound?


 
 He is referring to the S3 which looks to be a variant of the ED3. 
 I have the EDSE red screens and you are correct they are very good. I also have the ED3 Perfection and they seemed good but I am doing some more burn-in time to see if I can extract any more from them...


----------



## Ruben123

cadcam said:


> OK... just purchased the S3 from ~
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html
> 
> ...


 

 They should rename the ED3 with all its nephews. Irritating as hell, not the least that some Aliex shops just put some random words in their titles and Ive no clue which version it REALLY is.


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> They should rename the ED3 with all its nephews. Irritating as hell, not the least that some Aliex shops just put some random words in their titles and Ive no clue which version it REALLY is.


 
 Yes, I'm hoping this seller will ship the S3...the link I used was posted several times here on Head-Fi so my fingers are crossed.
  
 I bought the ED3 here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-Acme-Silver-Grade-HIFI-Fever-In-Ear-Headphones-The-Transient-Heavy-Low-Quality/32306483490.html
 thinking it was the Acme and it was the older Perfection. The pic is the Perfection but the description says Acme...


----------



## chompchomps

I have the same problem. On taobao the title says s3 but the pictures show ED3.. not sure if they are going to send the s3 or ed3


----------



## DaveLT

chompchomps said:


> I have the same problem. On taobao the title says s3 but the pictures show ED3.. not sure if they are going to send the s3 or ed3


 
 If you bought from this link it's DEFINITELY a S3. I did.
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=522205167561&_u=3v7mc2470ab
  
 Look carefully. It's still a ED3 but known as a ED3 S3.


----------



## rmatech

davelt said:


> Pistons 2 ... having clear sound? It doesn't
> 
> If you want one that is easy to buy look for a ED3. I got mine at 6USD.


 

 Thanks for the reply, I know the xiaomi piston 2 are not totally clear, but I Iike my bass, how bassy are the ED3?


----------



## CADCAM

So after listening to the ED3 Acme youth I wanted to try the ED3 Perfection again for the first time. They are good but just a step behind the Acme in pretty much everything...less bass, not quite as clear and detailed but still good. The Perfection were 6 bucks and the Acme was about 10, if you don't listen to them back to back your good.


----------



## chompchomps

davelt said:


> If you bought from this link it's DEFINITELY a S3. I did.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=522205167561&_u=3v7mc2470ab
> 
> Look carefully. It's still a ED3 but known as a ED3 S3.


 
 aite in my cart already! just gotta check out! 
  
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## Lawstorant

What do you think about ZN1 without amplifier? They're only ~8 bucks. I'm completly happy with my ED9 but it was half a year now.


----------



## rmatech

how bassy are the ed3, which KZ have best bass and are better than xiaomi piston 2?


----------



## robvagyok

rmatech said:


> how bassy are the ed3, which KZ have best bass and are better than xiaomi piston 2?


 
 I do not think there are any KZ's out there that are *SUPERIOR* to the P2
 some might be better slightly, migh have more bass, but none of them could be MUCH better.
 if you like bass, try the HDS1 which kinda worked for me, but also on a slight off-topic: you could give the Rock Zircon a try which is a fun sounding bass heavy iem


----------



## DaveLT

robvagyok said:


> I do not think there are any KZ's out there that are *SUPERIOR* to the P2
> some might be better slightly, migh have more bass, but none of them could be MUCH better.
> if you like bass, try the HDS1 which kinda worked for me, but also on a slight off-topic: you could give the Rock Zircon a try which is a fun sounding bass heavy iem


 
 There is. It is simply the HDS1. It is not even bass heavy and is almost neutral but with a slight veil that the S3 doesn't have.
  
 Lastly, details are just way better with any KZs


----------



## rmatech

robvagyok said:


> I do not think there are any KZ's out there that are *SUPERIOR* to the P2
> some might be better slightly, migh have more bass, but none of them could be MUCH better.
> if you like bass, try the HDS1 which kinda worked for me, but also on a slight off-topic: you could give the Rock Zircon a try which is a fun sounding bass heavy iem




Thanks for the reply, since the piston 2 have been discontinued need another alternative that is the same or better with good bass, is the rock zircon better in sound?


----------



## B9Scrambler

robvagyok said:


> I do not think there are any KZ's out there that are *SUPERIOR* to the P2
> some might be better slightly, migh have more bass, but none of them could be MUCH better.
> if you like bass, try the HDS1 which kinda worked for me, but also on a slight off-topic: you could give the Rock Zircon a try which is a fun sounding bass heavy iem


 

 I would say there are a few KZs that are superior to the Piston 2 (which I own); ED9, ED3 "The Acme", HDS1, ANV...


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> I would say there are a few KZs that are superior to the Piston 2 (which I own); ED9, ED3 "The Acme", HDS1, ANV...



Pretty much every KZ under the sky ....


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> I would say there are a few KZs that are superior to the Piston 2 (which I own); ED9, ED3 "The Acme", HDS1, ANV...


 
 Agree the ED9, HDS1 & ED3 Acme are certainly different sounding and even superior to the Piston2, the ED9 brass and HDS1 extract more detail and the Acme is really impressive in my setup. Never had the chance to hear the ANV.
 The P2 is a very good sounding headphone though and I prefer it to my ED10 & CM9's...


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Agree the ED9, HDS1 & ED3 Acme are certainly different sounding and even superior to the Piston2, the ED9 brass and HDS1 extract more detail and the Acme is really impressive in my setup. Never had the chance to hear the ANV.
> The P2 is a very good sounding headphone though and I prefer it to my ED10 & CM9's...




I love the ED10 but left them off the list since opinions are all over the place, haha.

My CM9s are hot garbage. I'm sure even the P1 would eat them for breakfast. Not in subbass though. Nothing will beat my pair of CM9 there....


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Pretty much every KZ under the sky ....




Truth


----------



## kaiteck

lawstorant said:


> What do you think about ZN1 without amplifier? They're only ~8 bucks. I'm completly happy with my ED9 but it was half a year now.




Zn1 without amp? U mean zs1?


----------



## Stepan

kaiteck said:


> Zn1 without amp? U mean zs1?


 
 No, he is talking about ZN1 Mini or whatever you want to call them. ZS1 is about 16-18USD, ZN1 about 32USD and ZN1 Mini is about 8-10USD.


----------



## ezekiel77

b9scrambler said:


> I would say there are a few KZs that are superior to the Piston 2 (which I own); ED9, ED3 "The Acme", HDS1, ANV...


 
  
 First three are my favorites!


----------



## ayao

lawstorant said:


> What do you think about ZN1 without amplifier? They're only ~8 bucks. I'm completly happy with my ED9 but it was half a year now.


 
  
 The two earphones you listed are very far apart SQ-wise. The ED9 (with brass nozzles) is bass-light (and neutral?) compared to most of my IEMs, while my ZS1/ZN1 has a lot more sub-bass than even my 1964EARS V8 CIEM. If the ED9 has been your main IEM for half a year, then the ZN1 mini might will seem way too dark and bassy OOTB.
  
 Since you're happy with your ED9, you might be happy with the HDS1 (going by what I've read in this thread since I don't own one). If you're open to different sound signatures (e.g. bassy) then definitely give the ZN1 mini a try for "only ~8 bucks". Even though I like the neutral UERM, I also really like the bassy ZS1/ZN1 and will be ordering the ZN1 mini!


----------



## DaveLT

ZS1 is different from the ZN1.


----------



## TheWeeknd

hello i'm considering nuying a pair of kz ears im choosing between the kz ZN1 Mini or KZ ZS1 anyone know which one is better


----------



## robvagyok

b9scrambler said:


> I would say there are a few KZs that are superior to the Piston 2 (which I own); ED9, ED3 "The Acme", HDS1, ANV...


 
 the reason while I said superior is that if I'm taking a scale where on one side there is the AK Layla or something similar above $2000 and the other side there you have $2 Awei's then there is not much of a difference between the random KZ and the P2 in sound quality. you can argue about one being much more V shaped and the other being more flat, but that's all.
 note, *I'm not saying the KZ's are not better* as the P2 (which is much more V-shaped) I'm just saying *looking at the whole spectrum* these tend to be very similar in quality.
 some good, some better, but none of the KZ's I've heard or own can beat my Havi's for which I have paid $35....
 and for $50 you can get az Astrotec AX35 which is a quite nice hybrid, and blows all the KZ's out of the water.


----------



## DaveLT

theweeknd said:


> hello i'm considering nuying a pair of kz ears im choosing between the kz ZN1 Mini or KZ ZS1 anyone know which one is better


 
 ZN1 Mini anyday!


robvagyok said:


> the reason while I said superior is that if I'm taking a scale where on one side there is the AK Layla or something similar above $2000 and the other side there you have $2 Awei's then there is not much of a difference between the random KZ and the P2 in sound quality. you can argue about one being much more V shaped and the other being more flat, but that's all.
> note, *I'm not saying the KZ's are not better* as the P2 (which is much more V-shaped) I'm just saying *looking at the whole spectrum* these tend to be very similar in quality.
> some good, some better, but none of the KZ's I've heard or own can beat my Havi's for which I have paid $35....
> and for $50 you can get az Astrotec AX35 which is a quite nice hybrid, and blows all the KZ's out of the water.


 
 What are you even talking about? No. You don't have the KZ S3 how can you say upfront that a AX35 blows them out of the water?
 By the way what you just did contravenes the rules here.
  
 Mind you I have tried a IM70 and I prefer a S3 over that. Hand on heart totally would say the S3 sounds better.
  
 The P2 lacks clarity or details where every single KZ you try at least has clarity and details apart from the ED10 which is rather muffled for me. Still sounds better than the P2, which is harsh.
 You do have a lot of IEMs yes but making a blanket statement like "P2 and KZ will be similar" will definitely invite _a lot of trouble. If you look at my signature you will realize that I've bought every single Xiaomi IEM since 2.0 expecting greatness and good value but it delivers on neither._
  
 Oh and chaps, the last difference between the ED3 or ED3 Yoof against the S3 is that the S3 has a flat cover at the back whereas the other two do not. The seller on taobao selling the S3 has stocked the gray option but it's limited in production he has added light blue and red that comes with mic but I have a sneaking suspicion it's a ED3 Yoof.
  


cadcam said:


> Agree the ED9, HDS1 & ED3 Acme are certainly different sounding and even superior to the Piston2, the ED9 brass and HDS1 extract more detail and the Acme is really impressive in my setup. Never had the chance to hear the ANV.
> The P2 is a very good sounding headphone though and I prefer it to my ED10 & CM9's...


 
  
 I've had 2 P2s and they're both harsh and lacked detail.


----------



## ayao

davelt said:


> ZS1 is different from the ZN1.


 
 I know they're not the same (I have both the ZN1 and ZS1), but the general signature is still quite similar to a degree. Someone who has gotten used to the ED9 might be overwhelmed by the bass whether it's the ZS1, ZN1 or ZN1 mini.


----------



## robvagyok

davelt said:


> Mind you I have tried a IM70 and I prefer a S3 over that. Hand on heart totally would say the S3 sounds better.


 
 that's the S3 you are talking about? 
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.37.QxVKGq&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_5_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6148


----------



## rmatech

What's the best bass heavy kz?


----------



## Stepan

rmatech said:


> What's the best bass heavy kz?


 
 ZS1 would be your choice!


----------



## rmatech

stepan said:


> ZS1 would be your choice!




Thanks for the reply, how do they compare to the piston 2?


----------



## rmatech

rmatech said:


> Thanks for the reply, how do they compare to the piston 2?




And how do they compare to the zn1 s3 or ed3?


----------



## DaveLT

robvagyok said:


> that's the S3 you are talking about?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.37.QxVKGq&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_5_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6148


 
 Yes it is.


rmatech said:


> And how do they compare to the zn1 s3 or ed3?


  

 It's miles ahead of a P2. Unlike a P2 the ZS1 is actually decent at detail retrieval and sounds fun, the P2 is just ... harsh. And V shaped.
 The S3 is neutral and has the most pleasing signature of a whole lot of IEMs I've ever listened to. The ED3 is on it's way.


----------



## rmatech

davelt said:


> Yes it is.
> It's miles ahead of a P2. Unlike a P2 the ZS1 is actually decent at detail retrieval and sounds fun, the P2 is just ... harsh. And V shaped.
> The S3 is neutral and has the most pleasing signature of a whole lot of IEMs I've ever listened to. The ED3 is on it's way.




Wow thanks for the reply, any reccommended seller and for bass and sound quality are the zs1 the best kz iem?


----------



## DaveLT

rmatech said:


> Wow thanks for the reply, any reccommended seller and for bass and sound quality are the zs1 the best kz iem?


 
 No it isn't. 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS1-Dual-Dynamic-Driver-Monitoring-Noise-Cancelling-Stereo-In-Ear-Monitors-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/32478361300.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_4_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_6,searchweb1451318400_6148


----------



## Yaku22

Hi headfiers, just couple hours ago i bought kz ed4 from banggood,which is the cheapest offer i could find lol. Care to share some thought of this shady seller. Links https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.banggood.com/KZ-ED4-HiFi-Metal-9_6mm-Ecological-Unit-Noise-Isolating-Heavy-Bass-In-ear-Headphone-with-Mic-p-1022269.html&ved=0ahUKEwjKi4PFyZDKAhVFkI4KHZA1D1oQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNEjagCiNuG7mewNCYdUqoG_rI9cMQ&sig2=G9yvBH0HIYJoRnvy-PiR1Q


----------



## fallrsk

carlsan said:


> Are you referring to the "Special Edition", with the mesh like back? Those are really good.
> Anyone try the perfection? How does that one sound?



Hm? You mean the S4? They're quite different apparently. Definitely my KZ thus far, until i try the HDS1 and S3 for myself.


----------



## fallrsk

Also.. Whoops, double post but I wouldn't recommend anyone the ZS1 for a P2 replacement. The mids are nonexistent in comparison to the Pistons and just don't sound right.. It's uh, hollow? It'd only be decent for cinema if I didn't have my hd598's. 

I'd definitely recommend the ED4, ED10, Zircon, HDS1 or any ED3 over the P2 as you can literally almost get 3 of those for the price of the P2 with much more satisfying sound retrieval but that's up to the owner's ears. The P2 play it safe and have an unoffensive sound whereas the KZ seem to trade some brightness for a more balanced sound so far for me. I'd rather take the brighter sound though, anyday.


----------



## CADCAM

> Oh and chaps, the last difference between the ED3 or ED3 Yoof against the S3 is that the S3 has a flat cover at the back whereas the other two do not. The seller on taobao selling the S3 has stocked the gray option but it's limited in production he has added light blue and red that comes with mic but I have a sneaking suspicion it's a ED3 Yoof.
> 
> 
> I've had 2 P2s and they're both harsh and lacked detail.


 
 Well luckily all us chaps are untitled to our opinions.


----------



## Zeebit

Hey everyone,
  
 I'm about to grab a bunch of these earphones. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the different models and their sound signatures? This thread is too massive to search


----------



## rmatech

fallrsk said:


> Also.. Whoops, double post but I wouldn't recommend anyone the ZS1 for a P2 replacement. The mids are nonexistent in comparison to the Pistons and just don't sound right.. It's uh, hollow? It'd only be decent for cinema if I didn't have my hd598's.
> 
> I'd definitely recommend the ED4, ED10, Zircon, HDS1 or any ED3 over the P2 as you can literally almost get 3 of those for the price of the P2 with much more satisfying sound retrieval but that's up to the owner's ears. The P2 play it safe and have an unoffensive sound whereas the KZ seem to trade some brightness for a more balanced sound so far for me. I'd rather take the brighter sound though, anyday.


 

 Thanks for the reply, out of the headphones you've mentioned which has the best bass?


----------



## fallrsk

Out of my lot, the ED4. It's beautifully balanced but sounds a bit boring to the others. Behind that is the ED10 with less treble, less mid and a bit more of a subwoofer bass. I'd rank the ED4 just edging out the Zircon due to pricing and I believe the sound being a wee bit clearer.


----------



## rmatech

fallrsk said:


> Out of my lot, the ED4. It's beautifully balanced but sounds a bit boring to the others. Behind that is the ED10 with less treble, less mid and a bit more of a subwoofer bass. I'd rank the ED4 just edging out the Zircon due to pricing and I believe the sound being a wee bit clearer.


 

 Thanks so the ED10 has the best bass and better than the piston 2?


----------



## fallrsk

rmatech said:


> Thanks so the ED10 has the best bass and better than the piston 2?




Unquestionably better bass, far less bloated sounding. You may want to pick up the ED4 too and see which of the two you like best.


----------



## rmatech

fallrsk said:


> Unquestionably better bass, far less bloated sounding. You may want to pick up the ED4 too and see which of the two you like best.


 

 Thanks mate! Where do u buy from?


----------



## fallrsk

rmatech said:


> Thanks mate! Where do u buy from?


 

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606?spm=2114.01020208.3.227.lpevje


----------



## rmatech

fallrsk said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606?spm=2114.01020208.3.227.lpevje


 

 Thanks!!


----------



## dwayniac

I received an ED10 today and I think it's the best KZ model that I own. Especially so because it sounds good with my iBasso DX50 which is unlike the other models that I own. (ED9,Micro Ring,DT5,GR & ZS1)


----------



## HairyAss

KZ HDS3? link


----------



## B9Scrambler

hairyass said:


> KZ HDS3? link


 
  
 Cool. Design looks like an HDS1/EDse hybrid. Interest peaked! Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## CADCAM

Is there a HDS2?


----------



## ezekiel77

cadcam said:


> Is there a HDS2?


 
  
 Yup, looks just like the Yamaha EPH100.
  
 Link here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HDS2-6-MM-Go-Pro-Audifonos-dj-Earphones-With-Microphone-Mp3-Player-Headphones-Fone-De/32530332030.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.66.xTKGe1&s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_5_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_6151


----------



## CADCAM

ezekiel77 said:


> Yup, looks just like the Yamaha EPH100.
> 
> Link here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-HDS2-6-MM-Go-Pro-Audifonos-dj-Earphones-With-Microphone-Mp3-Player-Headphones-Fone-De/32530332030.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.66.xTKGe1&s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_5_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_6151


 
 Oh yea I have seen these...if I remember correctly they didn't get great posts when they came out.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> Oh yea I have seen these...if I remember correctly they didn't get great posts when they came out.




Yeah, they're a pretty weak KZ unfortunately.


----------



## CADCAM

How about the ED4? Anyone have them?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Original-KZ-ED4-In-Ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-KZ-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super-Bass-Noise/32550824424.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.211.7luN5n&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_3_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999_9990_61,searchweb201560_6,searchweb1451318400_6148


----------



## Yaku22

I prefer rather neutral experience iem oem,as i thought i could try ed4 that come with 'hires' tag. But i cant tolerate with extensive in whichever direction as i care for my ears. Also o rather prefer u shape than v shape,the result maybe isnt as pumped up as the v's but equalizer and amplifier can emphasize to point of my satifaction.currently my ate still shipping.Since ive read this thread from the start, i found ed4 with the most reveal design as i certain kz got alot of bass in theirs, decide to get vapourize rather than get pumped up by ed9 and other bassy,outdated kz's.


----------



## B9Scrambler

yaku22 said:


> I prefer rather neutral experience iem oem,as i thought i could try ed4 that come with 'hires' tag. But i cant tolerate with extensive in whichever direction as i care for my ears. Also o rather prefer u shape than v shape,the result maybe isnt as pumped up as the v's but equalizer and amplifier can emphasize to point of my satifaction.currently my ate still shipping.Since ive read this thread from the start, i found ed4 with the most reveal design as i certain kz got alot of bass in theirs, decide to get vapourize rather than get pumped up by ed9 and other bassy,outdated kz's.


 
  
 Go for the HDS1. They're one of the most neutral KZs with good detail and nice soundstage. Cable kinda sucks, but you really can't complain at the prices they go for. A solid buy. 
  
 ATE is another good one, but you've already got them on the way.
  
 ED3 Perfection (original model) is another solid option, but they're not quite as refined as the newer KZ models. Still worth a listen if you like a balanced signature with a treble tilt.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Just a quick update from me:
  
 I own the ED10, ED9, ATE, and ZS1
  
  
 The ED10s have by far had the most use, i use them at work and when im out and about, the others all have very minimal usage.
  
 The ATE and ED9s are fine, but the ED10 has started to develop a channel imbalance, the right earpiece being quite a bit quieter, this is fine though given that i work in a workshop and they have been hit with a mash hammer mid air while hanging from my shirt several times, have been around sawdust alot, and had alot of stress put on them, i will just buy a new pair or two to be safe.
  
 The real disappointment however is that one of the drivers on the right side of the ZS1 seemed to have stopped working, they have had a very easy life sitting around really and have only at the very very most 2 hours of use (doubt even that)


----------



## Chief Stringer

Although ill probably get some more ED10s anyone recommend a pair with a bass heavy sound, decent isolation and generally easy to deal with (no over ear cables etc)


----------



## DaveLT

ED10 if you really like a v shaped IEM. ED4 is simply not as refined as the S3 or even similar.


----------



## aaDee

It's a new day and new KZ. HDS3 this time.
 Are they just changing the shells of same drivers??
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrival-KZ-HDS3-Metal-Bass-In-Ear-Headset-W-Wheat-Lines-High-Fidelity-Control/1213684_32585879411.html


----------



## ezekiel77

Why do they look like a metal/mesh version of an older KZ? Prolific company indeed haha.


----------



## DaveLT

ezekiel77 said:


> Why do they look like a metal/mesh version of an older KZ? Prolific company indeed haha.



It could be the hds1 driver in the shell of the EDR2 but smaller and with small holes like the hds1


----------



## fallrsk

chief stringer said:


> Although ill probably get some more ED10s anyone recommend a pair with a bass heavy sound, decent isolation and generally easy to deal with (no over ear cables etc)




Nevermind what Dave says, I upgraded from the ED10 -> Zircon -> ED4 since I prefer a clear, extensive but bass heavy iem for mostly techno listening when out and about. Anything above the ED4 seems to be more neutral (HDS, ED3), anything below seems to have less clarity. 

Also, the ED10 bugged the hell out of my ears! They'd never move but they were so uncomfortable due to the little bump on the case keeping pressure on my outer ear for 1 hr+.

EDIT: ED4 seems to be a bit U shaped, atleast mine does, so the highs may be piercing at times.


----------



## Podster

aadee said:


> It's a new day and new KZ. HDS3 this time.
> Are they just changing the shells of same drivers??
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Arrival-KZ-HDS3-Metal-Bass-In-Ear-Headset-W-Wheat-Lines-High-Fidelity-Control/1213684_32585879411.html


 

 By the looks of these they are refining the shells on their iem's. I like the left and right band as well as the screen on the nozzle looks so much more refined than earlier model KZ's where the QC on screens was rather poor. Still for $10 bones most KZ's in this price range sound far better than $10 and miles ahead of most cheap iem's and buds
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Not sure about strain relief of this pair but they look to finally have run out of the rubber cable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This new black stuff looks kind of slick.


----------



## Austrian

Maybe I overlooked it, but has anyone tried the ZN1 Mini, yet?


----------



## cr0wnest

I recently acquired the ZS1 and its just a bloat of bass similar to the ATE-S which I now feel is also bass bloated, though it seems stronger on the ZS1. The highs are there but it always stays behind the low end and it never shines. Thats fine if you like that kind of sound signature, but I personally feel that its too boomy for me to use in the long term. I hope the ZN1 Mini will be better.
  
 Also the ZS1 can be quite hard to get a secure fit. I had to use two hands to properly sit the IEM into my ears before I wrap the cable over my ear. I also tried swapping out ear tips but none of it seem to improve the fit on my ears. Probably just me though.


----------



## Nadsp

What is the difference between ed9 and ed9s ?


----------



## DaveLT

nadsp said:


> What is the difference between ed9 and ed9s ?


 
 No differences. S is just ED9 in black


----------



## GhettoBlaster

Been watching this thread develop for some time looking for a new headphone, I just ordered the ate s and zn1 mini. Haven't really seen much posted on the zn1 mini hoping it's between the ate s and zs1 in terms of head shaking bass (little bit a bass-head). Also off topic any one try the **** ue's? Haven't seen anything on the forums expect 1 review. They look kinda promising wanted to know if anyone could compared them to the ate s or zn1.


----------



## CADCAM

cr0wnest said:


> I recently acquired the ZS1 and its just a bloat of bass similar to the ATE-S which I now feel is also bass bloated, though it seems stronger on the ZS1. The highs are there but it always stays behind the low end and it never shines. Thats fine if you like that kind of sound signature, but I personally feel that its too boomy for me to use in the long term. I hope the ZN1 Mini will be better.
> 
> Also the ZS1 can be quite hard to get a secure fit. I had to use two hands to properly sit the IEM into my ears before I wrap the cable over my ear. I also tried swapping out ear tips but none of it seem to improve the fit on my ears. Probably just me though.


 
 You're not alone...I have the ATE-S & ZS1 and had issue's with fit. I ended up getting the ZS1 to sound Ok with the right tip and insertion depth but it was a challenge. I gave the ATE-S to my son. Over the ear is not for me.


----------



## CADCAM

yaku22 said:


> I prefer rather neutral experience iem oem,as i thought i could try ed4 that come with 'hires' tag. But i cant tolerate with extensive in whichever direction as i care for my ears. Also o rather prefer u shape than v shape,the result maybe isnt as pumped up as the v's but equalizer and amplifier can emphasize to point of my satifaction.currently my ate still shipping.Since ive read this thread from the start, i found ed4 with the most reveal design as i certain kz got alot of bass in theirs, decide to get vapourize rather than get pumped up by ed9 and other bassy,outdated kz's.


 
 I've missed about 75% of what you said but if you are saying at the end the ED9 is bassy and outdated you might want to listen to a pair. With the brass nozzles...


----------



## DaveLT

cadcam said:


> You're not alone...I have the ATE-S & ZS1 and had issue's with fit. I ended up getting the ZS1 to sound Ok with the right tip and insertion depth but it was a challenge. I gave the ATE-S to my son. Over the ear is not for me.



They did make a uncomfortable IEM comfortable tho (it is a IMx style) so props to them but had they started with a SE design it would have fitted better


----------



## dokkj

Lol man, I'm still waiting for my HDS1 and ED9s. It's been more than a month


----------



## cr0wnest

Alright got my ED3 Youth today and I am pleasantly surprised. I expected them to sound harsh but they are incredibly well balanced! I would describe it like the EDSE but tuned to be more balanced. Less bloat in the bass but still has that rumble, the mids are not as veiled and is much clearer, also maybe a little forward, the highs are also some of the most balanced I have ever heard in an IEM. Its got crisp detail without sounding like a swarm of bees splashing in water in your ears like the ED9's brass nozzles. I haven't listened enough to give my verdict on the sound stage, but so far it seems alright. I'm really digging the ED3 Youth, now I know why people say they are good enough to be used as monitors.
  
 I'm still waiting on my ED11, ZN1, and S3. The latter which I have even higher hopes for now.


----------



## ezekiel77

cr0wnest said:


> Alright got my ED3 Youth today and I am pleasantly surprised. I expected them to sound harsh but they are incredibly well balanced! I would describe it like the EDSE but tuned to be more balanced. Less bloat in the bass but still has that rumble, the mids are not as veiled and is much clearer, also maybe a little forward, the highs are also some of the most balanced I have ever heard in an IEM. Its got crisp detail without sounding like a swarm of bees splashing in water in your ears like the ED9's brass nozzles. I haven't listened enough to give my verdict on the sound stage, but so far it seems alright. I'm really digging the ED3 Youth, now I know why people say they are good enough to be used as monitors.
> 
> I'm still waiting on my ED11, ZN1, and S3. The latter which I have even higher hopes for now.


 
  
 They good! I even like them over the ED9. Vocals are a treat and very balanced, HDS1 sounds a bit sterile compared to them.


----------



## CADCAM

cr0wnest said:


> Alright got my ED3 Youth today and I am pleasantly surprised. I expected them to sound harsh but they are incredibly well balanced! I would describe it like the EDSE but tuned to be more balanced. Less bloat in the bass but still has that rumble, the mids are not as veiled and is much clearer, also maybe a little forward, the highs are also some of the most balanced I have ever heard in an IEM. Its got crisp detail without sounding like a swarm of bees splashing in water in your ears like the ED9's brass nozzles. I haven't listened enough to give my verdict on the sound stage, but so far it seems alright. I'm really digging the ED3 Youth, now I know why people say they are good enough to be used as monitors.
> 
> I'm still waiting on my ED11, ZN1, and S3. The latter which I have even higher hopes for now.


 
 If your ED9's sound like "_a swarm of bees splashing in water in your ears_" with the brass nozzles I'd check and verify the paper filter is in place\position on the inside of the nozzle...mine are still my favorite KZ along with the HDS1 & ED3 Acme Youth which can have a bit of shrillness in the highs with some recordings. 
 I also put a tiny bit of air filter type material in the brass nozzles to tame the highs and they are detailed and accurate.


----------



## raybone0566

I use spiral dot size medium with my ed9's and I think they are by far the best KZ offering to date. Tip selection, fit & seal is critical though. I've found with numerous phones if the fit and seal is not just right, you could have some sibilance issues.


----------



## cr0wnest

cadcam said:


> If your ED9's sound like "_a swarm of bees splashing in water in your ears_" with the brass nozzles I'd check and verify the paper filter is in place\position on the inside of the nozzle...mine are still my favorite KZ along with the HDS1 & ED3 Acme Youth which can have a bit of shrillness in the highs with some recordings.
> I also put a tiny bit of air filter type material in the brass nozzles to tame the highs and they are detailed and accurate.


 
 I did check it and one side was off at first, so it caused some imbalanced when I first started using it, but its been fixed since then. Both the gold and brass nozzles still sound harsh to me regardless. Indeed they are accurate and detailed, something you'd normally pay 10 times the price for. For now I'm really digging the ED3 Youth. The most shocking realisation now is that its even comparable to my Audio-Technica CKR9LTD and CKR10. I'm still amazed at how well such low costing IEM's stack up against something that is supposed to cost 20 - 30 times more. Only time will tell how well they last.
  


raybone0566 said:


> I use spiral dot size medium with my ed9's and I think they are by far the best KZ offering to date. Tip selection, fit & seal is critical though. I've found with numerous phones if the fit and seal is not just right, you could have some sibilance issues.


 
 I've tried them with complys, the included foam tip and also the small and medium JVC spiral dots. They are all about the same to me, but I like the stock included ear tips best with the ED9, the seal feels most transparent with that.


----------



## Podster

cr0wnest said:


> I did check it and one side was off at first, so it caused some imbalanced when I first started using it, but its been fixed since then. Both the gold and brass nozzles still sound harsh to me regardless. Indeed they are accurate and detailed, something you'd normally pay 10 times the price for. For now I'm really digging the ED3 Youth. The most shocking realisation now is that its even comparable to my Audio-Technica CKR9LTD and CKR10. I'm still amazed at how well such low costing IEM's stack up against something that is supposed to cost 20 - 30 times more. Only time will tell how well they last.
> 
> I've tried them with complys, the included foam tip and also the small and medium JVC spiral dots. They are all about the same to me, but I like the stock included ear tips best with the ED9, the seal feels most transparent with that.


 

 Maybe you got a dud pair
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd buy another just to make sure as I'm in 100% agreement with Cad and Rabo that the ED9 is still to this day the best of my KZ's and a true bargain in $10 iem's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 YMMV but I love a clear and bright presentation so if you like warm and bassy don't spend another $10 (maybe closer to $15 these days)


----------



## cr0wnest

podster said:


> Maybe you got a dud pair
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't think its a dud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 because it doesn't sound off to me at all apart from that loose filter on one side of the brass nozzle which I already fixed. The ED9 was my main driver for a while and after some burn in, it sounded better and more tolerable, but it still has the tendency to sound ear piercing. Perhaps our perception of harshness is on a different level but as you said, YMMV.


----------



## Austrian

I just ordered a ZN1 Mini, seems due to the weak Yuan it was cheaper than yesterday. Will see how it is - so far I only ever used Pistons as far as Chinese IEMs are concerned.


----------



## CADCAM

cr0wnest said:


> I don't think its a dud
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It may not be a perception of harshness as much as program material. I was listening to my ED3 Acme Y and was thinking these are excellent, then I threw in another disc and they became a bit harsh and grainy in the treble. I also do not listen to ripped music whenever possible, just retail and if possible remastered cd's. I send the signal to an external DAC and then to a dedicated hp amp. I am also able to adjust gain which is very beneficial when listening to IEM's.
 IMO the ED9 is an excellent iem and I'm in agreement with both Podster & Raybone on this... if the filters are in place and you've rolled the right tips for your specific ear canal they a great inexpensive option.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> It may not be a perception of harshness as much as program material. I was listening to my ED3 Acme Y and was thinking these are excellent, then I threw in another disc and they became a bit harsh and grainy in the treble. I also do not listen to ripped music whenever possible, just retail and if possible remastered cd's. I send the signal to an external DAC and then to a dedicated hp amp. I am also able to adjust gain which is very beneficial when listening to IEM's.
> IMO the ED9 is an excellent iem and I'm in agreement with both Podster & Raybone on this... if the filters are in place and you've rolled the right tips for your specific ear canal they a great inexpensive option.


 

 So true Cad, it amazes me just what you can get out of a $10 pair of iem's especially if you have a good amp section driving them and of course the big game changer for all reproduced music is how well it was recorded
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As much as I would like to spend the coin for a couple of TOTL systems the truth is they will also only sound as good as what's thrown at them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I'm curious as well on those new ZN1 Mini Austrian, please give us a small rap sheet on those when they get to you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure if you have heard the ZS1's but I'd really like to know if there are improvements over the them in the ZN1 Mini!


----------



## cr0wnest

cadcam said:


> It may not be a perception of harshness as much as program material. I was listening to my ED3 Acme Y and was thinking these are excellent, then I threw in another disc and they became a bit harsh and grainy in the treble. I also do not listen to ripped music whenever possible, just retail and if possible remastered cd's. I send the signal to an external DAC and then to a dedicated hp amp. I am also able to adjust gain which is very beneficial when listening to IEM's.
> IMO the ED9 is an excellent iem and I'm in agreement with both Podster & Raybone on this... if the filters are in place and you've rolled the right tips for your specific ear canal they a great inexpensive option.




I did try experimenting with tip rolling as well and to me the result is pretty much the same. Perhaps it has got something to do with the music we listen to because my music mostly involves JPOP which as I have mentioned several pages back, is usually on the trebely side as opposed to the old European recordings which are warmer and much better recorded. 

An example of two songs I find harsh with the ED9 (either nozzle type) is this. First thing you might notice is the amount of high frequencies in the female vocals.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJXDbDMkkA[/VIDEO]
[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjjL3Bt3WBo[/VIDEO]

However on these it sounds really good. That instrument separation and bass is immersive.
[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOqTIaau3o[/VIDEO]
[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nj-ucZDFQY[/VIDEO]

Same IEM, two very differently recorded tracks. The Japanese recording has a lot more emphasis on the higher frequencies. The highs on the ED9 are really detailed, dont get me wrong. But X'es and S'es have that typical needle like quality to them and that's what causes the most hearing fatigue, not something I would use long term.

The ED3 Youth does not have as much of a problem because there seems to be a tighter threshold on the highs, I don't know if it will change after burn in but for now they just sound more optimised to my ears. Try listening to those 4 tracks on the ED9 (both the gold and brass nozzles) and you'll know what I mean.


----------



## Podster

Well there is no doubt you have diversity between these two artist for sure, I like it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is also true that the JPOP stuff leans to the treble side of things, as far back as I can remember a lot of Asian music has been geared towards a high freq. output but that does not include all because they also have some great percussive stuff out there. Some of the work that Budgie (The Creatures) has done is just incredible


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> So true Cad, it amazes me just what you can get out of a $10 pair of iem's especially if you have a good amp section driving them and of course the big game changer for all reproduced music is how well it was recorded
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have 3 hp systems set up at the house, one for my DT880's which uses an OTL amp (LD MK III) and it does sound spectacular but I can't even go near it with any of my iem's...way too much hiss at the high gain setting I have to use for the 600 Ohm Beyer's.
 And you are absolutely right... no matter what equipment you have a poor recording is a poor recording. I have purchased the ZS1 as well as the ATE-S but they didn't work out for me. I do not like wearing iem's wire up and didn't like the memory wire at all. I like the fact the new ZN1 mini doesn't have memory wire but I haven't bought it... yet. I do have the S3 on route and will post after I check them out.
 Keep posting I enjoy reading your opinions.


----------



## raybone0566

cadcam said:


> I have 3 hp systems set up at the house, one for my DT880's which uses an OTL amp (LD MK III) and it does sound spectacular but I can't even go near it with any of my iem's...way too much hiss at the high gain setting I have to use for the 600 Ohm Beyer's.
> And you are absolutely right... no matter what equipment you have a poor recording is a poor recording. I have purchased the ZS1 as well as the ATE-S but they didn't work out for me. I do not like wearing iem's wire up and didn't like the memory wire at all. I like the fact the new ZN1 mini doesn't have memory wire but I haven't bought it... yet. I do have the S3 on route and will post after I check them out.
> Keep posting I enjoy reading your opinions.


You enjoy those 880's? I picked up a pair to add to my collection over the weekend for a very good price. 600 ohm version. I've read nothing but good things about them. I've got the T1's an they are fantastic phones.


----------



## CADCAM

raybone0566 said:


> You enjoy those 880's? I picked up a pair to add to my collection over the weekend for a very good price. 600 ohm version. I've read nothing but good things about them. I've got the T1's an they are fantastic phones.


 
 They are excellent IMO. I thought the T1 was further up the food chain...must have been an awesome deal you couldn't pass up. Sounds like me.
 I think you'll enjoy them. Never heard the T1's though so...good luck!


----------



## raybone0566

cadcam said:


> They are excellent IMO. I thought the T1 was further up the food chain...must have been an awesome deal you couldn't pass up. Sounds like me.
> I think you'll enjoy them. Never heard the T1's though so...good luck!


Yes they are, but I have a nice collection and just got into beyerdynamic. The hot treble rumors were why I stayed clear of them. I didn't find that to be the case at all when I got them. Perfectly balanced and very clean sound. They should arrive today, looking to compare with the 650's


----------



## CADCAM

raybone0566 said:


> Yes they are, but I have a nice collection and just got into beyerdynamic. The hot treble rumors were why I stayed clear of them. I didn't find that to be the case at all when I got them. Perfectly balanced and very clean sound. They should arrive today, looking to compare with the 650's


 
 I have the HD600's and very much enjoy them. The DT880's are a bit more dynamic IMO while the HD600 is liquid smooth. I got on this KZ train due to the hot summers in New England...now I have like 20 pairs of iem's. I think because they are so cheap you just keep buying them. It's cold here and I'm still listening to the KZ's! Amazing...


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I have the HD600's and very much enjoy them. The DT880's are a bit more dynamic IMO while the HD600 is liquid smooth. I got on this KZ train due to the hot summers in New England...now I have like 20 pairs of iem's. I think because they are so cheap you just keep buying them. It's cold here and I'm still listening to the KZ's! Amazing...


 

 Boy you said a mouthful, hit the nail on the head as I've got the same iem problem. (I'm an iem slut
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








)LOL I too have my Havi's, Shures and Trinity's but here I am just having a grand time with KZ's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Been jamming most of the day on this setup
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
 Here's a little treat for the Bass Head in you


----------



## Filip Nedam

kz-ATE vs kz-ATEs ?
 which has more bassy sound ?


----------



## Adsy

What KZ's have the best sound stage? and preferably standard buds, nothing that goes over or around the ear


----------



## Podster

adsy said:


> What KZ's have the best sound stage? and preferably standard buds, nothing that goes over or around the ear


 

 Of my KZ collection and based on a non over ear I'd say my ED3 or HDS1's as they are both very light and don't really need to be over ear but that is just my take. YMMV, I'm sure you will get some other feedback on your request
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 My latest and maybe my final KZ acquisition (for a while at least, to dispel the old famous last words)! I was curious about the dual driver Tone Pole not to mention their crazy (get me a translator quick) write up of these ultra heavy/ultra bass laden iem's, the one thing they did hit on the head with these are the fact and truth they are my most bass heavy KZ to date! Besides being limited editions they are just cool looking, the gold plated band with DT5 and Chinese writing is a nice touch as well. Not the ultimate in detail nor sound stage they are a very nice iem for the $10 I paid for them and if you like techno/EDM or percussive material these won't disappoint


----------



## Arsis

adsy said:


> What KZ's have the best sound stage? and preferably standard buds, nothing that goes over or around the ear


I have ed9 and ed10. The ed10 has fantastic soundstage.


----------



## DaveLT

arsis said:


> I have ed9 and ed10. The ed10 has fantastic soundstage.


 
 The ED10 I have lost it's sibilance now but it's got a constricted soundspace with no weight to the sound and recessed mids and the highs aren't even clear either the bass has no kick at all.


----------



## cr0wnest

adsy said:


> What KZ's have the best sound stage? and preferably standard buds, nothing that goes over or around the ear




ED9 with brass nozzles
ED3 Youth

You won't be needing to change any of the ear buds as well. And since they are very small they will fit in just about anyone's ears just fine without feeling uncomfortable. 



filip nedam said:


> kz-ATE vs kz-ATEs ?
> which has more bassy sound ?




I've only had the ATE-S, but its been mentioned by other Head-Fi'ers that the ATE-S is bassier.


----------



## B9Scrambler

adsy said:


> What KZ's have the best sound stage? and preferably standard buds, nothing that goes over or around the ear




I would give it up to the EDse or ED9 with brass nozzles. HDS1 has a smaller stage but I personally think it does a better job of detailing, separation, and using its soundstage more effectively than those two ED models.


----------



## dokkj

Quick question as to how to proceed. I purchased the ED9 and HDS1 on ebay back on Dec 1st. Decided to check up on the tracking number since it still hasn't arrived, I get the following "Parcel#xxxx is invalid, China Post has not received any parcel associated with !"  
 This normal? I remember hearing about people just getting bogus tracking numbers from Aliexpress, ebay, etc.


----------



## joemama

podster said:


> Of my KZ collection and based on a non over ear I'd say my ED3 or HDS1's as they are both very light and don't really need to be over ear but that is just my take. YMMV, I'm sure you will get some other feedback on your request
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Your assessment is a lot kinder than mine http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/6450#post_11925125. Personally I thought they were a hot mess when I got them.
  
 I'm with you regarding future KZ purchases. Currently rocking the S3 and ED Youth Edition before I start exploring hybrids next week. It never ends.


----------



## Chaoscillator

dokkj said:


> Quick question as to how to proceed. I purchased the ED9 and HDS1 on ebay back on Dec 1st. Decided to check up on the tracking number since it still hasn't arrived, I get the following "Parcel#xxxx is invalid, China Post has not received any parcel associated with !"
> This normal? I remember hearing about people just getting bogus tracking numbers from Aliexpress, ebay, etc.


 

 This happened with my HDS1 and S3 before ePacket had actually got them. Might be a good idea to contact the seller.

 My HDS1 and S3 should be in today when the mail gets dropped off. I have high hopes for the pair of KZs.


----------



## cr0wnest

dokkj said:


> Quick question as to how to proceed. I purchased the ED9 and HDS1 on ebay back on Dec 1st. Decided to check up on the tracking number since it still hasn't arrived, I get the following "Parcel#xxxx is invalid, China Post has not received any parcel associated with !"
> This normal? I remember hearing about people just getting bogus tracking numbers from Aliexpress, ebay, etc.




A lot of times the tracking number never works, but the package still arrives anyway. I've bought tons of stuff on Aliexpress but so far I've only ever lost 1 package. Best to contact the seller and ask if they provided the correct tracking information.

Alternatively you can try using https://www.aftership.com/ and see if anything shows up.


----------



## CADCAM

Anyone have the ED4 or the black ED9? Just wondering...


----------



## fallrsk

cadcam said:


> Anyone have the ED4 or the black ED9? Just wondering...


 
 ED4 owner reporting for duty.
  
 In other news, I just jumped on the HDS3. If they're atleast as good as everyone says the HDS1 is, I'll be happy with the updated looks. (I'm not too keen on colorful iem's lol). If they're like the HDS2 I'll a be a lil' upset.
  
 Does anyone know exactly how to use MisterTao or is there a guide for it? I tried lookin but my search was a bit fruitless.


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> Oh and chaps, the last difference between the ED3 or ED3 Yoof against the S3 is that the S3 has a flat cover at the back whereas the other two do not.


 
 I was listening to my ED3 Acme Youth (blue) and noticed my backs are flat not radius. Are the backs of your ED3 A/Y radius? I need to look at my ED3 Perfection and see if they have a radius or if they are flat...


----------



## Chaoscillator

Just got my HDS1s and S3s a mere 8 days after ordering. They arrived faster than my Piston 3s did!

 Take my impressions with a grain of salt as I'm not the biggest audiophile around.

 OOTB impression, driven by my LG G3 listening to Spotify with 320 kbps:

 HDS1: The HDS1 is tiny. Surprisingly tiny. I didn't know they were designed to be so small so it caught me off guard. To me, there is a noticeable lack of clarity in comparison to the Piston 3 and S3 in some songs, though in others it seems just fine so it might just be me. The sound signature is nice and balanced, though there is a slight lack of bass for _my personal taste_. The mic is excellent and the pause/skip track button works flawlessly. I had to switch to the medium sized tips to get a proper seal, and the tips are much better and much more comfortable than those found on the Piston 3. I like these much better than the Piston 3, although I do prefer the Piston's microphone control. I like to wear these over the ear and the cable after the Y-split is a little long IMO, but this does not impede. These came with a blue carrying case, though these were shipped from the official store.

 S3: These are attractive and simple. My pair has some cosmetic blemishes straight out of the box but I don't mind, as long as they sound good; at any rate it isn't worth griping about/sending back. Immediately I prefer the fit of these to the HDS1 and Piston 3, even using stock tips. Upon first listen I can immediately sense better clarity than what's found on the Piston 3 and HDS1. These have my favorite sound signature out of the three so far, with a slight emphasis on bass that doesn't detract from the mids; everything is right where it should be. I like the soundstage on these as well. The only gripe I have is the lack of headphone controls. These will likely become my pair to enjoy music, while the HDS1 or Piston 3 will be my "out and about" pair for the convenience of having a microphone and headphone controls.

 Just my two cents.

 ..Anyone have recommendations for what I should buy next? I've caught the KZ bug.


----------



## CADCAM

fallrsk said:


> ED4 owner reporting for duty.


 
 How do they sound?


----------



## cr0wnest

cadcam said:


> I was listening to my ED3 Acme Youth (blue) and noticed my backs are flat not radius. Are the backs of your ED3 A/Y radius? I need to look at my ED3 Perfection and see if they have a radius or if they are flat...




My ED3 Youth have completely flat backs. The pictures in the product listing shows them as curved when its actually not, rather misleading.


----------



## CADCAM

cr0wnest said:


> My ED3 Youth have completely flat backs. The pictures in the product listing shows them as curved when its actually not, rather misleading.


 
 OK thanks...the way Dave was talking I thought the ED3 had the radius back and the S3 was flat but I guess the ED3 acme youth has flat backs also. I ordered the S3 in gray with black cable I just hope it's not the same hp as my ED3 acme youth...


----------



## fallrsk

The ED4, to my ears, are direct competition to the Rock Zircon's and just edging it out in terms of clarity. They're leaps and bounds better than the ED10 and ZS1. They make my P2 and P3 look like novices to the iem game.. Simply put, the best iem's I have and they seem to compliment my HD598 well as they're complete opposites. They soundstage isn't all too bad, but you shouldn't expect anything close to a B3p1. There horror bass is there but non-intrusive and settles into a nicely balanced, extended bass. There's all the sub bass you can ask for, and it sounds well controlled, scaling well across multiple genres from Bob Marley to Savant and anything else I've tried.
  
 That said, there's a few others that prefer the HDS1/ED3/ED9 to these, so you might want a second opinion. I'm a total fanboy of the ED4 currently, and am actually listening to them right now. 
  

  
 This song just sounds awesome. The dynamics seem a little compressed and congested compared to my HD598s, but that's definitely to be expected. These babies like to be pushed loud


----------



## Filip Nedam

so, which one should i buy with mic I just need bassy sound and mic ?


----------



## Yaku22

HiFiChris tried ed4? Just about now i go to various sites i spotted hds3 edr2 edr1 dt3 ..and kz z1? Although i would like have em all,couldn't guess whether its the real deal or... Again its only 10 bucks


----------



## Filip Nedam

filip nedam said:


> so, which one should i buy with mic I just need bassy sound and mic ?


 
 anyone ?


----------



## andione1983

filip nedam said:


> filip nedam said:
> 
> 
> > so, which one should i buy with mic I just need bassy sound and mic ?
> ...


ed9 or ed11

Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


----------



## DaveLT

cadcam said:


> I was listening to my ED3 Acme Youth (blue) and noticed my backs are flat not radius. Are the backs of your ED3 A/Y radius? I need to look at my ED3 Perfection and see if they have a radius or if they are flat...



The photos show a curved back on the ed3 youth and ED3 but only the ED3 has the curved back


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> By the looks of these they are refining the shells on their iem's. I like the left and right band as well as the screen on the nozzle looks so much more refined than earlier model KZ's where the QC on screens was rather poor. Still for $10 bones most KZ's in this price range sound far better than $10 and miles ahead of most cheap iem's and buds:wink_face:
> 
> Not sure about strain relief of this pair but they look to finally have run out of the rubber cable:eek: This new black stuff looks kind of slick.



Now see, I saw those and thought chrome? Podsters going to love them! But your right the black are very slick. I seriously need to get back to the Kz's. I bought a few off brand earphones, including an AX60 but they all missed that "fun" grab bag of sound that always surprises me with different kz's. You sure there aren't chromeees in your future?


----------



## CADCAM

filip nedam said:


> so, which one should i buy with mic I just need bassy sound and mic ?


 

 I'd look at the KZ ED3 Acme Youth...good bass and sounds way better than the cost. The ED9 with gold nozzles is pretty bassy IMO. I'd also grab the Rock Zircons if you like bass... they are not neutral by any means but if your into bass you'll love them.


----------



## HiFiChris

yaku22 said:


> @HiFiChris tried ed4? Just about now i go to various sites i spotted hds3 edr2 edr1 dt3 ..and kz z1? Although i would like have em all,couldn't guess whether its the real deal or... Again its only 10 bucks


 


 Sorry, no ED4 here.


----------



## fallrsk

So.. There's a black ED4 named the KZ Z1. It's so purdddy


----------



## DaveLT

fallrsk said:


> So.. There's a black ED4 named the KZ Z1. It's so purdddy


 
 Lolwat
  


  
 Yea ... I still managed a group shot! BUY MOAR. Just kidding.


----------



## Filip Nedam

I have to make decision...but I just don`t know......ok, wich one is the similar soud to xiaomi hybrid dual drivers (wit mic) coz I need mimimum bass as they have ?


----------



## DaveLT

filip nedam said:


> I have to make decision...but I just don`t know......ok, wich one is the similar soud to xiaomi hybrid dual drivers (wit mic) coz I need mimimum bass as they have ?


 
 The Hybrid is NOT minimum bass. It's actually very dark.
 Just buy a KZ ED3 Youth.


----------



## Filip Nedam

davelt said:


> The Hybrid is NOT minimum bass. It's actually very dark.
> Just buy a KZ ED3 Youth.


 
 From where ?
 from this seller ?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-Earphone-Stereo-Headset-Earbuds-100-KZ-ED3-In-Ear-Headphones-Auriculares-Colorful/32500988369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.7yinhq&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_61,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6150


----------



## rmatech

filip nedam said:


> From where ?
> from this seller ?
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED3-Youth-Version-Earphone-Stereo-Headset-Earbuds-100-KZ-ED3-In-Ear-Headphones-Auriculares-Colorful/32500988369.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.7yinhq&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_61,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6150




Which has best bass ed10, ed3 your or any other?


----------



## CADCAM

fallrsk said:


> So.. There's a black ED4 named the KZ Z1. It's so purdddy


 
 That is nice looking...


----------



## Filip Nedam

rmatech said:


> Which has best bass ed10, ed3 your or any other?


 
 ???


----------



## CADCAM

filip nedam said:


> ???


 
 It's 10 bucks take a shot you might get lucky...or you might end up with 10 to 20 pairs of iem's like some of us


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I was listening to my ED3 Acme Youth (blue) and noticed my backs are flat not radius. Are the backs of your ED3 A/Y radius? I need to look at my ED3 Perfection and see if they have a radius or if they are flat...


 

 Perfections are radius Cad, as you know my ED9's are still my fave KZ's and I just had to have that cool looking black so they are en-route. I never ordered the ACME's but have been curious


----------



## Filip Nedam

No idea what to order, there are too many good kz-s


----------



## Podster

joemama said:


> Your assessment is a lot kinder than mine http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/6450#post_11925125. Personally I thought they were a hot mess when I got them.
> 
> I'm with you regarding future KZ purchases. Currently rocking the S3 and ED Youth Edition before I start exploring hybrids next week. It never ends.


 

 I'd say Joemama! After about 120hrs of burn time and some custom EQ on the Shanling M2 these DT5's don't sound terrible they just want to bass pound your eardrums. For sure better looking than sounding
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Save your money on these Scott
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


fallrsk said:


> The ED4, to my ears, are direct competition to the Rock Zircon's and just edging it out in terms of clarity. They're leaps and bounds better than the ED10 and ZS1. They make my P2 and P3 look like novices to the iem game.. Simply put, the best iem's I have and they seem to compliment my HD598 well as they're complete opposites. They soundstage isn't all too bad, but you shouldn't expect anything close to a B3p1. There horror bass is there but non-intrusive and settles into a nicely balanced, extended bass. There's all the sub bass you can ask for, and it sounds well controlled, scaling well across multiple genres from Bob Marley to Savant and anything else I've tried.
> 
> That said, there's a few others that prefer the HDS1/ED3/ED9 to these, so you might want a second opinion. I'm a total fanboy of the ED4 currently, and am actually listening to them right now.
> 
> ...





 You tempting me here Fallrsk
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since they are direct comp to the Zirc's I'm going to pass, I was intrigued by the small port holes in the ED4, I originally thought that round screen was all open port but I guess without back pressure they would sound dead and lifeless! They look pretty nice in the gun metal gray


----------



## Podster

filip nedam said:


> No idea what to order, there are too many good kz-s


 

 This looks like a good start especially if your wanting some bass
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know Fallrsk won't argue this suggestion
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Gun-Gray-Original-Luxury-Hifi-Professional-with-Microphone-Earphone-Headphone-For-iphone-6S-Plus-Samsung-Mobile/32555819009.html?spm=2114.030010108.3.218.a7nquh&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_2_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999_9990_61,searchweb201560_2,searchweb1451318400_6149


----------



## CADCAM

filip nedam said:


> No idea what to order, there are too many good kz-s


 
 Like I said just take chance... they all are worth the price you pay. I am more of an analytical listener and not a bass head but I think you would be satisfied with the bass from the ED3 youth or even the ED10 which I personally feel is inferior to most other KZ's I've heard but people like them here and you have to respect that. If I were you I'd get the ED9 (in black) and use gold nozzles, I'd also grab the ED3 Acme Youth and a pair of the Zircons for another option. For around 30 bucks you get all that!


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Perfections are radius Cad, as you know my ED9's are still my fave KZ's and I just had to have that cool looking black so they are en-route. I never ordered the ACME's but have been curious


 
 OK, I have the Perfections also but haven't looked so thanks. The ED3 Acme Youth are good mine can get harsh in the treble but most of the time they are excellent. I like them and feel they are a step up from the Pefections. I have the S3 on the way and am patiently waiting to hear them as I've read some great comments.
 The ED9 in black look awesome!!! I have 2 pairs in chrome or I'd already have them. Still might go for them now that you've made me jealous...


----------



## Filip Nedam

is this original and good choice ?
  
 http://www.banggood.com/KZ-ED3m-Youth-Version-HiFi-Metal-Dynamic-Headphone-In-ear-Earphone-With-Mic-for-Xiaomi-Samsung-iPhone-p-1011340.html


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> OK, I have the Perfections also but haven't looked so thanks. The ED3 Acme Youth are good mine can get harsh in the treble but most of the time they are excellent. I like them and feel they are a step up from the Pefections. I have the S3 on the way and am patiently waiting to hear them as I've read some great comments.
> The ED9 in black look awesome!!! I have 2 pairs in chrome or I'd already have them. Still might go for them now that you've made me jealous...


 

 Jealous
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That cracked me up
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah, sgl sent me his old perfections and they are OK, heavy for sure (I think heavier than the ED9's) Hope you enjoy your S3's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to gget my next round in and decide what I keep and then gift away
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have Senf UE's coming, AG R8's, clear HCK UE's and of course those sweet looking black ED9's!
  
 Filip. $8.99, what do you have to lose? Get them, tell us what you think of them and how they sound to you and with that info in case they don't trip your trigger we can suggest another KZ based on what you hear with these


----------



## Yaku22

Ops c56 isnt new. Hurm are dt5 new? Hurm.. anyone on it?


----------



## Yaku22

fallrsk said:


> So.. There's a black ED4 named the KZ Z1. It's so purdddy


tried? Lol it tempting me..since i look into the frequency range which is somewhat similar to ed9


----------



## fallrsk

filip nedam said:


> is this original and good choice ?
> 
> http://www.banggood.com/KZ-ED3m-Youth-Version-HiFi-Metal-Dynamic-Headphone-In-ear-Earphone-With-Mic-for-Xiaomi-Samsung-iPhone-p-1011340.html




Get the ED4 like Podster suggested lol! The ED3 seems to be more neutrally oriented according to impressions. The ED4 is probably the best of bother worlds with bass and clarity, unless you want the ED10 which is all sub bass.

No, Yaku22 no Z1 here but I wish I had one! They look so nice, and the mic is top notch on those! Looks like they stepped up their quality/QC on the mics (for the 3rd time now?) and it looks HQ. Or.. This is another DIY brand trying to bank off the KZ glory.

It could quite possibly be the same change that occurred with the S3 though.


----------



## fallrsk

Just kidding, the HDS3 is the set with a new mic; I haven't a clue about the Z1.

Also, i purchased the HDS3 from 3C Electronic and they changed the ePacket to registered air mail, so I'm a bit peeved right now.. They mentioned nothing and just made up some excuse about explosive warehouse when I asked about it lol!


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> Get the ED4 like @Podster suggested lol! The ED3 seems to be more neutrally oriented according to impressions. The ED4 is probably the best of bother worlds with bass and clarity, unless you want the ED10 which is all sub bass.
> 
> No, @Yaku22 no Z1 here but I wish I had one! They look so nice, and the mic is top notch on those! Looks like they stepped up their quality/QC on the mics (for the 3rd time now?) and it looks HQ. Or.. This is another DIY brand trying to bank off the KZ glory.
> 
> It could quite possibly be the same change that occurred with the S3 though.


 

 I forgot to mention above I've also got the new ZN1 Mini on order, hoping they rectified some of the issues with the ZS1 on the ZN1 Mini. (By the way I keep seeing Z1, are you referring to the ZN1 Mini or is there also a KZ Z1?)


----------



## Yaku22

Exploded? Lolwat? 
Also anyone know how long order can get stuck at guangzhou airport?


----------



## fallrsk

Lol, there's actually a "Z1" which is a black ED4 Podster. It's not on Teresa's shop but a few other shops have got 'em. 

Also, the HDS3 is on Teresa's shop so it's safe to say that it's definitely a legitimate model and I hope these lil guys are worth the hype!


----------



## Filip Nedam

this one ?
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_293587.html


----------



## fallrsk

filip nedam said:


> this one ?
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_293587.html


 
 Save yourself a month of waiting and order from Teresa, you'll be glad you did.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED4-Latest-Design-100-Original-KZ-Headphone-In-Ear-Earphone-Metal-DIY-9-6mm-Dynamic/32553092685.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.29.vMv5VT&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_4_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999_9990_61,searchweb201560_6,searchweb1451318400_6148


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> Save yourself a month of waiting and order from Teresa, you'll be glad you did.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED4-Latest-Design-100-Original-KZ-Headphone-In-Ear-Earphone-Metal-DIY-9-6mm-Dynamic/32553092685.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.29.vMv5VT&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_4_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999_9990_61,searchweb201560_6,searchweb1451318400_6148


 

 Yeah but it's $2.25 more


----------



## B9Scrambler

fallrsk said:


> Save yourself a month of waiting and order from Teresa, you'll be glad you did.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED4-Latest-Design-100-Original-KZ-Headphone-In-Ear-Earphone-Metal-DIY-9-6mm-Dynamic/32553092685.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.29.vMv5VT&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_4_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999_9990_61,searchweb201560_6,searchweb1451318400_6148




I've purchased from her a couple times. Still took a month. I'm patient, so no biggie, but worth noting. I'm in Canada btw.


----------



## fallrsk

Really?! I get them in 8-10 days.. Sry guys lol! Waiting for normal china post makes me wanna rip my hair out; talk about impatient eh? Depends where you live, then.


----------



## GhettoBlaster

fallrsk said:


> Really?! I get them in 8-10 days.. Sry guys lol! Waiting for normal china post makes me wanna rip my hair out; talk about impatient eh? Depends where you live, then.


 wow ordered mime from flagshipstore hope it dosent take that long. Man waiting a month for a package is torture.


----------



## Podster

ghettoblaster said:


> wow ordered mime from flagshipstore hope it dosent take that long. Man waiting a month for a package is torture.


 

 Yeah, I'm like Fall and get mine within 14 days of order but I've heard Canada has like an additional two weeks on getting China orders! Feel your pain there B9, I learned early on with my AliEx orders to just order them and forget about until my front desk tells me I got mail. Always a treat if you keep those expectations down


----------



## Filip Nedam

so this one 
 http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_293587.html?utm_source=shareasale&utm_medium=shareasale&utm_campaign=shareasale
 is the best and deepest bass ?


----------



## Austrian

For 6 bucks why not just try them?


----------



## Filip Nedam

austrian said:


> For 6 bucks why not just try them?


 
 ???


----------



## Austrian

They cost USD 6.61 at the link you provided, you already got quite a few recommendations on which models have good bass, so why not just buy the ED4? It's like a coffee's worth of small change. You can't really lose - if you don't like them give them away, use them for listening to audiobooks or podcasts or leave them in a drawer.


----------



## Yaku22

Hds3 edr1 edr2 design kinda u know,also freq response quite same as others b4. Actually i seek this new kz dt3 which is somehow got overprice by lot of sellers. This is first time i seeing kz iem sell at 100usd(for kz freshie ). Whether the seller is an idiot or the dt3 splendidly remarkable .. But i prefer not to get it as i find the design doesnt quit revaling? Anyone going to get it?


----------



## Yaku22

podster said:


> Yeah but it's $2.25 more:eek:


then get the ed4 from banggood, i get it for 7.5usd have to wait bout 50 days though lol


----------



## zzhead

Hey guys,
 Do we know anything about this one?
Kz-es??  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ES-copper-forging-professional-grade-fever-and-heavy-bass-music-WIRE-call-ear-headphones-earphones/2051890757.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.12.vHMw4X&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999_9990_61,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_6148


----------



## Yaku22

The 





fallrsk said:


> Get the ED4 like Podster suggested lol! The ED3 seems to be more neutrally oriented according to impressions. The ED4 is probably the best of bother worlds with bass and clarity, unless you want the ED10 which is all sub bass.
> 
> No, Yaku22 no Z1 here but I wish I had one! They look so nice, and the mic is top notch on those! Looks like they stepped up their quality/QC on the mics (for the 3rd time now?) and it looks HQ. Or.. This is another DIY brand trying to bank off the KZ glory.
> 
> It could quite possibly be the same change that occurred with the S3 though.


 the looks is much more convincing people,but since ed4 around sometime z1 might be a knockoffs.lolwat.but when i look into similarity of hds3 ed3,edr2 edr1 edse... Just cant said they are knockoffs as some may havent said so.. yet?


----------



## Hardcor

I just got my first KZ , the HDS1, and what a disappointment. Out of box they have no bass at all, mids are very weak as well. The overall sound is very tinny and weak, I tried them on all my devices with no luck, even after burning them in for about 100 hrs. I realize I'm just a noob, so my question is,  did anyone else have the same problems? Did I just get a dud? What other KZ's should I get that have great sound with a proven track record? Thanks! Almost forgot to mention the ear tips are tiny, and very round, I've never had to use large tips before, these are still too small, are these childrens phones? Cheers!


----------



## Yaku22

Used to what iem? Gear? Im likely recommend u go get ed9,ate,ate s,ed3,edr2?,edr1 much brighter than hds1, lol y not get all kz? As long as it isnt 'beats' xD


----------



## r2muchstuff

zzhead said:


> Hey guys,
> Do we know anything about this one?
> Kz-es??
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ES-copper-forging-professional-grade-fever-and-heavy-bass-music-WIRE-call-ear-headphones-earphones/2051890757.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.12.vHMw4X&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999_9990_61,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_6148


 

 It has been around for some time, issued about the same time as when ED-SE first appeared.  Debate between the two as to which was best at the time.  Most opinions seem to have settled on the SE, but a few swore by the ES.  I preferred the SE and still do, but I kept the ES   Should be some old posts on them somewhere here.
  
 YMMV
 r2


----------



## Ruben123

hardcor said:


> I just got my first KZ , the HDS1, and what a disappointment. Out of box they have no bass at all, mids are very weak as well. The overall sound is very tinny and weak, I tried them on all my devices with no luck, even after burning them in for about 100 hrs. I realize I'm just a noob, so my question is,  did anyone else have the same problems? Did I just get a dud? What other KZ's should I get that have great sound with a proven track record? Thanks! Almost forgot to mention the ear tips are tiny, and very round, I've never had to use large tips before, these are still too small, are these childrens phones? Cheers!




Mine have just the most bass I can tolerate (any more and it ruins the music for me) and the mids are very full with quite smooth highs. Guess yours are broken (or you're a bass head )


----------



## Filip Nedam

That`s it, i ordered thise one...with mic.
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_293587.html
  
 ty 2 y all !


----------



## Chaoscillator

ruben123 said:


> Mine have just the most bass I can tolerate (any more and it ruins the music for me) and the mids are very full with quite smooth highs. Guess yours are broken (or you're a bass head )


 
 I agree, I just got mine yesterday and they sound relatively flat and neutral to me but not in a bad way. There's a noticeable lack of clarity IMO but it's not something that ruins the experience.


----------



## zzhead

r2muchstuff said:


> It has been around for some time, issued about the same time as when ED-SE first appeared.  Debate between the two as to which was best at the time.  Most opinions seem to have settled on the SE, but a few swore by the ES.  I preferred the SE and still do, but I kept the ES   Should be some old posts on them somewhere here.
> 
> YMMV
> r2


 

 ok thx mate


----------



## zzhead

hardcor said:


> I just got my first KZ , the HDS1, and what a disappointment. Out of box they have no bass at all, mids are very weak as well. The overall sound is very tinny and weak, I tried them on all my devices with no luck, even after burning them in for about 100 hrs. I realize I'm just a noob, so my question is,  did anyone else have the same problems? Did I just get a dud? What other KZ's should I get that have great sound with a proven track record? Thanks! Almost forgot to mention the ear tips are tiny, and very round, I've never had to use large tips before, these are still too small, are these childrens phones? Cheers!


 

 R  U sure?????
 They are my favourite together with ATE's. And  have many.
 There must be somethg wrong with your pair


----------



## Hardcor

Haha, wish I could afford to get them all, as I said I'm a noob, currently using Ipod classic, samsung galaxy, with $20 (CAD) Skullcandy phones, so nothing impressive.


----------



## r2muchstuff

yaku22 said:


> Hds3 edr1 edr2 design kinda u know,also freq response quite same as others b4. Actually i seek this new kz dt3 which is somehow got overprice by lot of sellers. This is first time i seeing kz iem sell at 100usd(for kz freshie ). Whether the seller is an idiot or the dt3 splendidly remarkable .. But i prefer not to get it as i find the design doesnt quit revaling? Anyone going to get it?


 

 The dt3 is an older KZ.  It is plastic and very light weight.  Most folks here did not rate it very well.  I think it is great for when doing yard work since it can be worn over ear, fit great, is light weight and thus stay in place without constant attention. YMMV.  There should be some old post about this.
  
 r2


----------



## Chaoscillator

hardcor said:


> Haha, wish I could afford to get them all, as I said I'm a noob, currently using Ipod classic, samsung galaxy, with $20 (CAD) Skullcandy phones, so nothing impressive.


 
 In that case, it sounds like you're used to having too much bass and not enough mids and highs. I came from Skullcandy Titans and the "lack of bass" is evident in comparison, but that's because I can hear everything else now instead. Last night I put in my Titans just to try them and that lasted for about 5 seconds before I put them back in my drawer, never to be touched again. Give them HDS1's a chance and I think you'll enjoy them. I like the ED3 S3 I got yesterday as well, if you'd like to try those. I feel those have a touch more bass and clarity than the HDS1.


----------



## Hardcor

Thats what I'm thinking, I'm no bass head, but I mean these have zero bass. Good to know this was bad luck, not gonna give up on KZ.  I'm just looking for most bang for the buck.  Being on a fixed income, and Canadian winter shredding most phones, makes it hard to find quality phones, its what drew me to KZ in the first place. Cheers!


----------



## Hardcor

Cool! Good to know, ED3 S3 are now added to my ever growing KZ wishlist. Thanks!


----------



## Yaku22

r2muchstuff said:


> The dt3 is an older KZ.  It is plastic and very light weight.  Most folks here did not rate it very well.  I think it is great for when doing yard work since it can be worn over ear, fit great, is light weight and thus stay in place without constant attention. YMMV.  There should be some old post about this.
> 
> r2


lol


----------



## Radog

The backplate came off my ED(, how do I replace it. It doesn't seem to affect the sound much


----------



## Radog

I mean ED9


----------



## Yaku22

Noticed dt5 on the horizon, but plastic looks..Chaoscillator edr2 edr1? lol ed2 ed1?getin newer kz?


----------



## Chaoscillator

yaku22 said:


> Noticed dt5 on the horizon, but plastic looks..@Chaoscillator edr2 edr1? lol ed2 ed1? Going get newer kz?


 
 Next I want to try the ED9. Are the EDR1/2s any good? I haven't seen a whole lot about them.

 Edit: I also think I'll pick up the ED4s next. I'm curious about the ZN1 mini and ATE-S.


----------



## Yaku22

chaoscillator said:


> Next I want to try the ED9. Are the EDR1/2s any good? I haven't seen a whole lot about them.


lol i myself curious whether its an older kz. If u just want the best try zs1, Kz ANV 2015 a revamped version of the past anv. Take all if u dont mind to rob your bank! but i prefer to take it slow.i dont need amp.my phones ldac got enough powers to make my ears receive pure sound. Wanna go loud get oem XD


----------



## Chaoscillator

The ED9s and ED4s are definitely going to be my next purchases. I might try the ZS1 or ZN1 mini but I've heard the ZS1/ATE are bass bloated. Not sure about the ANV.

 Edit: I switched back to the stock tips that are included on the HDS1 by default and I believe comfort and SQ have improved. I was using the medium tips and I believe these are small and it seems like clarity has improved a touch. I can insert them deeper now, which might be a part of it.


----------



## rmatech

Really struggling to find the best kz to buy I want the ones with best bass and clear sound, which one do you guys recommend? Thanks


----------



## joemama

rmatech said:


> Really struggling to find the best kz to buy I want the ones with best bass and clear sound, which one do you guys recommend? Thanks


 

 S3


----------



## DaveLT

fallrsk said:


> Get the ED4 like @Podster suggested lol! The ED3 seems to be more neutrally oriented according to impressions. The ED4 is probably the best of bother worlds with bass and clarity, unless you want the ED10 which is all sub bass.
> 
> No, @Yaku22 no Z1 here but I wish I had one! They look so nice, and the mic is top notch on those! Looks like they stepped up their quality/QC on the mics (for the 3rd time now?) and it looks HQ. Or.. This is another DIY brand trying to bank off the KZ glory.
> 
> It could quite possibly be the same change that occurred with the S3 though.


 
 Nope. I'm willing to bet the ED3 has better clarity. Keep this in mind it has fantastic clarity without ANY sibilance or hint of harshness.


podster said:


> I forgot to mention above I've also got the new ZN1 Mini on order, hoping they rectified some of the issues with the ZS1 on the ZN1 Mini. (By the way I keep seeing Z1, are you referring to the ZN1 Mini or is there also a KZ Z1?)


 
 He's talking about the Z1 the black version of the ED4 (Kinda like the black version of ED9 named as ED9 S)
  
 The ZN1 Mini is nowhere near as bassy as the ZS1. It is still bassier than a S3 but just ... much more of it. It is kinda lopsided but if you're a basshead and you like details the ZN1 Mini is great.


yaku22 said:


> Exploded? Lolwat?
> Also anyone know how long order can get stuck at guangzhou airport?


 Tianjin lol.


fallrsk said:


> Really?! I get them in 8-10 days.. Sry guys lol! Waiting for normal china post makes me wanna rip my hair out; talk about impatient eh? Depends where you live, then.


 Ya have to complain to get the parcel moving from the warehouse lol.


podster said:


> Yeah, I'm like Fall and get mine within 14 days of order but I've heard Canada has like an additional two weeks on getting China orders! Feel your pain there B9, I learned early on with my AliEx orders to just order them and forget about until my front desk tells me I got mail. Always a treat if you keep those expectations down


 

 My "Aliexpress shipping" took 8 days. Chinapost took > 1 month.


chaoscillator said:


> In that case, it sounds like you're used to having too much bass and not enough mids and highs. I came from Skullcandy Titans and the "lack of bass" is evident in comparison, but that's because I can hear everything else now instead. Last night I put in my Titans just to try them and that lasted for about 5 seconds before I put them back in my drawer, never to be touched again. Give them HDS1's a chance and I think you'll enjoy them. I like the ED3 S3 I got yesterday as well, if you'd like to try those. I feel those have a touch more bass and clarity than the HDS1.


 





 I much prefer the ED3 S3 though. It sounds like a full LEAP (at least mine is) ahead of the HDS1


chaoscillator said:


> Next I want to try the ED9. Are the EDR1/2s any good? I haven't seen a whole lot about them.
> 
> Edit: I also think I'll pick up the ED4s next. I'm curious about the ZN1 mini and ATE-S.


 
 EDR1 = EDSE/ED2. Slightly recessed mids but otherwise ok. Rather buy the ED3.
  
 Everyone who tried my S3 said the same thing : They are socking great, nothing you expect even at 30$. Hell if it was priced at 50$ there would still be people buying it.
  
 The ZN1 Mini is bassier than the S3 but it's more for those who want a bassier ED3.


----------



## Chaoscillator

davelt said:


> I much prefer the ED3 S3 though. It sounds like a full LEAP (at least mine is) ahead of the HDS1
> 
> EDR1 = EDSE/ED2. Slightly recessed mids but otherwise ok. Rather buy the ED3.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, definitely. I think the HDS1 is great but my S3 is leaps and bounds better to listen to in every imaginable way.

 I thought the EDR1 looked a lot like the EDSE/ED2 but hadn't a clue.

 Hmm, I might have to try the ZN1 Mini then because I wouldn't mind a bassier ED3.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Some casual reviews of the ED3c, ZS1, and the HDS1. Enjoy!
  
 ED3c:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-ed3c-vigorous-bass-stereo-music-in-ear-monitor-headphones-earbud-with-microphone-red/reviews/14976
  
 ZS1:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone/reviews/14975
  
 HDS1:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver/reviews/14974


----------



## carltonh

First post to this thread, but I've read 1/2 of it.
  
 ED10 reivew: This is the first KZ I've bought (but ZN1 mini and ATE-S on the way). For reference, my near perfect IEM when not using EQ is the Sony AS800AP. It is a mildly V shaped with great details and precision, enormously powerful subbass quality, quantity, and especially impact, but the mids are so clear and perfect that you don't notice the slightly recessed mids being slightly recessed. The ED10 is close, but in comparison, there is a dip in the lower mids and peak in the higher mids. The ED10's cannot compare and sounds punkish, raw, and unrefined if compared to the AS800AP. But if you don't have the two to compare, or something similar, you won't likely notice.
  
 However, if you are willing to use EQ, and add a few decibels at 600-1100HZ, (And I throw a couple Db in the subbass) then the ED10 equals the most refined IEMs I have, including the Sony XB90 and Philips Fidelio S1. What is unique about the ED10 is the speed of impact. I don't have another (of my 40+ IEMS) that have the same speed of impact, but maybe JVC FXD40 is the closest.
  
 Given that the Sony AS800AP is my most perfect un-EQed IEM, any opinions on the next KZ (or other budget) IEM I should try? ED4? ED3c? Is the ED11 different from the ED10? Already have ZN1 mini on the way. I'm afraid the ATE-S won't be my cup of tea unless EQ adjustment is the only missing magic. I have the Piston 2 and 3, but the 2 is too uncomfortable in my ears for its sound to matter, and the P3 is quite good after EQing, but no where near the ED10 after EQing.
  
 EDIT: My EQ and tonal preference is primarily due to extreme metal. IMO, IEMs must be able to represent the impact of blast beats, where you hear and feel the subbass of bass drum beats, their impact and resolution, at 240 beats per minute, or faster for tech-death metal.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@carltonh  You might like the ED8. Great clarity and resolution with obscene bass.One of my fav KZs but I don't use them often. They developed an issue with the jack and are a bit of a pain to wear. Still, they sound pretty epic. Worth trying.


----------



## Filip Nedam

is there any review of KZ-ED4`s ?


----------



## fallrsk

Yeah, somewhere in the thread there's a couple.


----------



## Filip Nedam

I could not find 
 Are they better then p2/p3/hybrids ?


----------



## Yaku22

carltonh said:


> First post to this thread, but I've read 1/2 of it.
> 
> ED10 reivew: This is the first KZ I've bought (but ZN1 mini and ATE-S on the way). For reference, my near perfect IEM when not using EQ is the Sony AS800AP. It is a mildly V shaped with great details and precision, enormously powerful subbass quality, quantity, and especially impact, but the mids are so clear and perfect that you don't notice the slightly recessed mids being slightly recessed. The ED10 is close, but in comparison, there is a dip in the lower mids and peak in the higher mids. The ED10's cannot compare and sounds punkish, raw, and unrefined if compared to the AS800AP. But if you don't have the two to compare, or something similar, you won't likely notice.
> 
> ...


like fast beat? Get most kz ed? According to most of expert in this thread ed9 is the top,majority in this thread pick up ed9 as its desigb,packaging,noticeable sound shape etc. Just get yourself ready to read this whole thread in order to get the most out it XD


----------



## Yaku22

I dont know what happened but it seems most of moderators would go for other brand since the last age of ed9 and ATE.theres a thread about whole chinese iem eventhough theres hundred of brands.before i get here i find kz iem on the rising on utube specially ATe.thanks to those headfiers whos comes b4 me.may the bucks fairly expendable with this one lulz


----------



## DaveLT

yaku22 said:


> like fast beat? Get most kz ed? According to most of expert in this thread ed9 is the top,majority in this thread pick up ed9 as its desigb,packaging,noticeable sound shape etc. Just get yourself ready to read this whole thread in order to get the most out it XD


 
 No. It's the ED3 Youth or the ED3 S3. I tried out of the ED9 just now thanks to @cr0wnest and it's treble is pretty poorly controlled.
  


fallrsk said:


> Hey guys, I contacted Teresa to find out if she would be getting the KZ S3 and sent her both the Taobao and Ali links, this was her answer:
> 
> "Hello friend,
> This is actually not on the newest products, it is the weihuo product foreign trade OEM , so you can see it's price is very low, so you can see all the AliExpress sellers did not sell it.
> ...


  
 Teresa was lying to you. @cr0wnest (thanks to me) now has the ED3 Youth and the S3. I have the ED3 and S3
 He says the S3 sounds different enough from the ED3 Youth and for me, the ED3 is brighter than the S3.
  


fallrsk said:


> Lo and behold, Teresa knows all!
> 
> "Of course, I know more, ha ha!
> I has 1 pcs KZ S3 sample, it sound is the same as KZ ED3,
> only the appearance of the coating and the earphone cable is different."





fallrsk said:


> Ah, well I told Teresa I wished she sold them and her response:
> 
> "This is what I should do,
> Because KZ manufacturers has offered me 1 pcs sample of KZ S3, they hope me to help them sell it,
> ...


  
 It's not placebo effect. Told you not to trust a seller.


fallrsk said:


> Yeah, maxima hit the nail on the head. Teresa has sampled both and sensed no differences. This being said, once again, there is only ONE seller for the S3 thus far so I'm a bit lost as to what you mean?


 



fallrsk said:


> Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads this thread!? The S3 is simply a better looking ED3, no sq differences (according to a seller who indeed would sell them if they sounded different). It still confuses me why Teresa wouldn't sell them but maybe they shall. Only one Taobao and AE store have the S3 and they're both the same person. So, you can pay $5 on Tao or $12 on AE or $10 for the normal ED3 lol.





1clearhead said:


> The last person I would listen to is the seller that rarely knows what they're selling. *ED-S3* is the best of the bunch! Unless, you are quoting on them because you have them? That would be totally different. I have the different versions, so I'm talking facts! They are the best balanced and hi-end out of the different versions.
> 
> I would try another seller if I were you.


 








 Oh yea buddy


----------



## Shawn71

davelt said:


> No. It's the ED3 Youth or the ED3 S3. I tried out of the ED9 just now thanks to @cr0wnest
> and it's treble is pretty poorly controlled.




btw,which filter you referring to?......


----------



## DaveLT

shawn71 said:


> btw,which filter you referring to?......


 
 Brass has heavier bass than the gold, so it's warmer but the gold is neutral ... which makes it sound sharp and harsh, they are both equally sharp and harsh on both filters.


----------



## cr0wnest

shawn71 said:


> btw,which filter you referring to?......




Both the gold and brass nozzles have that high siblance. The ED9 has nice detail and sound stage, but the harshness is what put me away.

The S3 is really amazing. Think ED3 Youth but with slightly more laid back bass with clearer mids and highs, and slight wider sound stage. So yeah whichever Aliexpress seller was that who said there is no difference between the ED3 and S3, she needs to get better ways. 

I might wanna pick up a second set now.


----------



## Filip Nedam

are ed4 (with mic) better then p2, p3 and dual drivers xybrid ?


----------



## davek

Guys, don't know if someone already made this, but if you close the ANV's front "breathing" hole, it will become something much-much better than before. ANV was my favourite KZ from the first moment, but yes, bass is behind mids and there's a peak in the upper mids, it can be a bit sharp - those will be gone if you close the front hole. After it, ANV will be more natural and somewhat darker, bass becomes much stronger, hits hard, goes low, and the sharp upper mids are gone. It still has awesome soundstage, it won't be V or anything basshead, but its bass will please most people I'm sure, and way better than all of the other KZ's or nearly anything I've heard (EDR1, ED3, ATE, ED9, ED10, Rock Zircon, Beyer DTX80, various Xears and Sennheiser CX 'phones, only Ali CKR9LTD can compete with it). Try it with some adhesive tape!


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Some casual reviews of the ED3c, ZS1, and the HDS1. Enjoy!
> 
> ED3c:
> 
> ...


 

 Hey B9, I find the HDS1 to isolate quite well actually, how come you dont?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Hey B9, I find the HDS1 to isolate quite well actually, how come you dont?




Not sure. I felt the same about the S500i. Both isolate about as well as the Titan 1 for me, which as you can imagine is not well, haha. 

Had lots of opportunity to test them in noisy environments over the last few months too. Maybe it's just due to my ear anatomy, or the HDS1's semi-open design, or a combination of the two. 

Doesn't detract from the HDS1 being great though


----------



## goodluck4u

KＺ earphones might have different sound of each same product name. So the problem might be its product quality. 
  
 For example,  ATE depends on the condition of its bent hole.  
 Although my ATE has no problem, some ATEs were stuck their holes with bond and then their ATEs' sound in fogs and different buss from the normal ATEs.
  
 And also I have a different experience as following:
 The early time of my ED9 was different volume or sound tendency between both sides. However my ED9 repaired. I cleaned up its vent holes by using a needle.


----------



## Milanche78

Hi,
 I bought
 KZ SE with mic and the micro earphones model, with both i have the same problem-compatibility with mobile phone, they work fine on my pc, but on slightest movement connection is lost on mobile phone, I have tried few, android and Iphone.
  
 I was thinking to buy an adapter, but do not know which one
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/af/omtp-to-ctia.html?ltype=wholesale&SearchText=omtp+to+ctia&d=y&origin=n&initiative_id=SB_20160109034949&isViewCP=y&catId=0


----------



## DaveLT

milanche78 said:


> Hi,
> I bought
> KZ SE with mic and the micro earphones model, with both i have the same problem-compatibility with mobile phone, they work fine on my pc, but on slightest movement connection is lost on mobile phone, I have tried few, android and Iphone.
> 
> ...


 
 That definitely won't work for any phone if you really buy any of those adaptors. 
  
 Firstly if you really want to use it, get a 3.5mm extension since you say it disconnects for you. It's not a compatibility problem it's a issue of it/your phone's jack being loose.


----------



## carltonh

yaku22 said:


> like fast beat? Get most kz ed? According to most of expert in this thread ed9 is the top,majority in this thread pick up ed9 as its desigb,packaging,noticeable sound shape etc. Just get yourself ready to read this whole thread in order to get the most out it XD


 

 Not merely fast beat (often that too), but very fast instrumentation, especially the close miked drums of extreme metal. If the drummer is playing a double bass drum at 300 beats per minute, even very good earphones might have trouble representing the bass impact and the space between each beat properly. It requires earphones with subbass impact, but without midbass bloat. In comparison, from what I read about the Rock Zircons, they probably don't have the right bass shape and speed. Most reviews on this thread don't directly address impact speed and resolution. It can also be thought of like a reverb effect. The more of a reverb present, the slower the resolution.
  
 Take this extreme metal Beethoven example. (I could easily give heavier examples, but this example also provides a point of familiarity for everyone.) The ED10 is able to keep up very well.


----------



## DaveLT

carltonh said:


> Not merely fast beat (often that too), but very fast instrumentation, especially the close miked drums of extreme metal. If the drummer is playing a double bass drum at 300 beats per minute, even very good earphones might have trouble representing the bass impact and the space between each beat properly. It requires earphones with subbass impact, but without midbass bloat. In comparison, from what I read about the Rock Zircons, they probably don't have the right bass shape and speed. Most reviews on this thread don't directly address impact speed and resolution. It can also be thought of like a reverb effect. The more of a reverb present, the slower the resolution.
> 
> Take this extreme metal Beethoven example. (I could easily give heavier examples, but this example also provides a point of familiarity for everyone.) The ED10 is able to keep up very well.




 In @cr0wnest's words : ED10 or 11 both are bad. (Since nobody believes me that my ED10 is not broken) 
  
 And the ED9 sounds like a hot mess with the uncontrolled sibilance. You want controlled bass get the ZN1 Mini simple as that.


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> In @cr0wnest
> 's words : ED10 or 11 both are bad. (Since nobody believes me that my ED10 is not broken)
> 
> And the ED9 sounds like a hot mess with the uncontrolled sibilance. You want controlled bass get the ZN1 Mini simple as that.




Personal preferences man. Some us us quite like the ED10, myself included. ED9 is good too, but I agree that they are pretty wild in their treble (with either filter). Question about your ED9. Does it have a mesh filter inside the housing covering the driver?


----------



## cr0wnest

b9scrambler said:


> ED9 is good too, but I agree that they are pretty wild in their treble (with either filter). Question about your ED9. Does it have a mesh filter inside the housing covering the driver?




Yes it has a metal mesh filter inside when you unscrew the nozzles


----------



## Zeebit

What's the difference between these:
  
 ATE vs ATE-S
 ED9 vs ED9 (black shell)


----------



## cr0wnest

zeebit said:


> What's the difference between these:
> 
> ATE vs ATE-S
> ED9 vs ED9 (black shell)




I used to have the ATE-S, and only briefly tried the ATE today. The ATE-S just has a lot more bass (to the point where it booms a lot) and has memory wire. The normal ATE is much more balanced (Although still leaning towards bassy) and does not have memory wire. Instead it has weights to keep the wire down. I would go for the normal ATE if you're considering getting one.

I dont have the black ED9 but from what I know there are no differences in sound. Its just a different colored housing.


----------



## Zeebit

Can you tell me about the sound signature of these: ED3, EDR1, ED4, ED1, DT5, ZS1
 I'd like to know how they sound so I can pick which ones to get.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cr0wnest said:


> Yes it has a metal mesh filter inside when you unscrew the nozzles




Yes, but Dave's might not. I had a pair with mesh (gave to my cousin) and one without. Just curious if his has the mesh or not.


----------



## cr0wnest

b9scrambler said:


> Yes, but Dave's might not. I had a pair with mesh (gave to my cousin) and one without. Just curious if his has the mesh or not.




He doesn't own an ED9. The ED9 he was referring to is in fact mine which I let him try.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cr0wnest said:


> He doesn't own an ED9. The ED9 he was referring to is in fact mine which I let him try.




Ahhh....gotcha! Clearly I missed that somewhere down the line, haha.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Yes, but Dave's might not. I had a pair with mesh (gave to my cousin) and one without. Just curious if his has the mesh or not.




Then he should use tape to close it on the outside.


----------



## cr0wnest

zeebit said:


> Can you tell me about the sound signature of these: ED3, EDR1, ED4, ED1, DT5, ZS1
> I'd like to know how they sound so I can pick which ones to get.




I can only tell you about the ones I've owned/tried.

ED3 - I am assuming you are talking about the standard ED3 (Not the ED3 Youth) Bright, and has silbance similar to the ED9. Mids are still quite clear and bass feels laid back. Only tried it briefly as I did not like it much. This pair of earphones is also very heavy, even heavier than the ED9.

EDR1 - Also goes by the name of ED2 and ED Special Edition, they are all the same. Very warm sounding with lots of bass and sub bass, also a little veiled. Same goes for the mid range, not as clear as the ED3. Highs however, are well controlled and do not sound harsh at all. Sound stage and separation is reasonable, but nothing mind blowing. These are also very lightweight and have a nice strong metal construction. Not a bad starting point for your first KZ earphone.

ZS1 - This one is for the bass heads. Too much bloat in the low end for me to use. Both the mids and highs are there but they always feel like they are "behind" the bass. Was quite disappointed with it, I gave up after 1 day. It however has pretty decent sound stage.

Currently my favourites are the ED3 Youth (Also known as the ED3c) and the S3. The latter which is harder to come by and costs several dollars more than the Youth, but they are more refined and have better sound stage than the Youth.

Of course, keep in mind this is all my honest opinion, and we all have different hearing and different sound preferences. Other members may think otherwise depending on what kind of sound signature they prefer. But the ED3 Youth and S3 are by far some of the most balanced among the KZ lineup.


----------



## carltonh

davelt said:


> In @cr0wnest's words : ED10 or 11 both are bad. (Since nobody believes me that my ED10 is not broken)
> 
> And the ED9 sounds like a hot mess with the uncontrolled sibilance. You want controlled bass get the ZN1 Mini simple as that.


 
  
 I think those who see the ED10 as bad probably hear that dip and spike in the mids and understandably don't like it. I only "love" the ED10 when fixing the EQ. But without EQ fixes, I'd be merely indifferent at best to the Philips Fidelio S1, Piston 3, SHE3580, FXD40 among others noted as really good for their price.


----------



## cr0wnest

carltonh said:


> I think those who see the ED10 as bad probably hear that dip and spike in the mids and understandably don't like it. I only "love" the ED10 when fixing the EQ. But without EQ fixes, I'd be merely indifferent at best to the Philips Fidelio S1, Piston 3, SHE3580, FXD40 among others noted as really good for their price.




To be fair, the ED10/11 has a lot of clarity, perhaps maybe even on par with the ED9. But sadly it lacks weight and depth in its overall sound signature due to the laid back mids and bass. I know we can "fix" it with EQ, but that would change the overall sound signature of the earphone and in some cases it causes them to sound very artificial. I tried "fixing" the ED9 with several different EQ settings but in the end I still went flat because it sounded the most "natural" to me. And EQ'ing more bass on the ED9 causes it to distort very easily. 

I guess I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to headphones and IEMs, the only time I use EQ is while listening via speakers which varies in sound depending on how you place them and what environment you are in. Headphones and IEMs on the other hand, should sound the same as long as you fit them correctly.


----------



## Zeebit

cr0wnest said:


> -snip-


 
 Thanks! I'll grab a bunch of these but I'll avoid the bloaty ones.


----------



## Filip Nedam

filip nedam said:


> are ed4 (with mic) better then p2, p3 and dual drivers xybrid ?


 
 anyone ?


----------



## andione1983

cr0wnest said:


> carltonh said:
> 
> 
> > I think those who see the ED10 as bad probably hear that dip and spike in the mids and understandably don't like it. I only "love" the ED10 when fixing the EQ. But without EQ fixes, I'd be merely indifferent at best to the Philips Fidelio S1, Piston 3, SHE3580, FXD40 among others noted as really good for their price.
> ...


my KZ Ed 11 definitely don't lack in weight.. Probably my favourite KZ iems. 
And I never use equaliser. 

Sent from my LG-D802T using Tapatalk


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> In @cr0wnest's words : ED10 or 11 both are bad. (Since nobody believes me that my ED10 is not broken)
> 
> And the ED9 sounds like a hot mess with the uncontrolled sibilance. You want controlled bass get the ZN1 Mini simple as that.


 
 Again my ED9 certainly does not sound like a hot mess and I wonder if your "top hp" is the HD668b what you thought of its treble?


----------



## DaveLT

cadcam said:


> Again my ED9 certainly does not sound like a hot mess and I wonder if your "top hp" is the HD668b what you thought of its treble?


 
 The 668B's treble is silky smooth and not spiky at all.


----------



## encoreAC

Hmm I am considering getting my first KZ, which one is the best allrounder in the line-up in you guys opinion? The sheer amount of choice is overwhelming me lol.
  
 What I generally like: Punchy Bass, weighty vocals, extended, flat treble response, upfront sound.


----------



## raybone0566

davelt said:


> The 668B's treble is silky smooth and not spiky at all.


It could a number of things besides the ed9's causing that. Tip, fit, seal,& source also play a part. I use the jvc spiral dot medium tips and sound is very good with ed9. Just suggestions you may want to think about. The hds1 gives me fits getting the proper seal and when it's not in my ear perfectly it sounds anemic. I've never had this much trouble with another iem. But they sound fantastic when I do.


----------



## Chaoscillator

davelt said:


> The 668B's treble is silky smooth and not spiky at all.


 
 How would you compare the 668B's to the S3? I'm very interested in picking up a pair. I'm debating between the 668B and 681 EVO because I need that detachable cable.


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> The 668B's treble is silky smooth and not spiky at all.


 
 Well just goes to show you it's all relative. I have some very good full size cans but thoroughly enjoy my ED9's. I have 2 pairs now and am considering getting a third in black just because they look so bad @ss...


----------



## DaveLT

raybone0566 said:


> It could a number of things besides the ed9's causing that. Tip, fit, seal,& source also play a part. I use the jvc spiral dot medium tips and sound is very good with ed9. Just suggestions you may want to think about. The hds1 gives me fits getting the proper seal and when it's not in my ear perfectly it sounds anemic. I've never had this much trouble with another iem. But they sound fantastic when I do.


 
 Tip? No. They are the same as other KZs. Fit? No. There are no issues with fit. Seal? I can't hear anything as they fit on my KZ S3 as well.
  
 Why so defensive? 
  
 Source definitely not it has done well with every other IEM. 
  


cadcam said:


> Well just goes to show you it's all relative. I have some very good full size cans but thoroughly enjoy my ED9's. I have 2 pairs now and am considering getting a third in black just because they look so bad @ss...


 
 Not at all relative. Why the need to be so defensive when someone says the ED9 is a trebly sibilance-y IEM?


chaoscillator said:


> How would you compare the 668B's to the S3? I'm very interested in picking up a pair. I'm debating between the 668B and 681 EVO because I need that detachable cable.


 
 Both are good but I rather buy the 668B because it's fantastic. The S3 is good as a monitor and the 668B has nice warmth. Just buy both of them lol.


----------



## raybone0566

davelt said:


> Tip? No. They are the same as other KZs. Fit? No. There are no issues with fit. Seal? I can't hear anything as they fit on my KZ S3 as well.
> 
> Why so defensive?
> 
> ...


Defensive, I'm offering suggestions. Those things I've mentioned are all notorious for causing sibilance issues. I've had my ed9's for quite sometime and imo they are the best KZ offering. You read that all wrong dude


----------



## Chaoscillator

davelt said:


> Both are good but I rather buy the 668B because it's fantastic. The S3 is good as a monitor and the 668B has nice warmth. Just buy both of them lol.


 
 I'll probably pick up the 668B w/ a clip on mic and some velour pads and see how I like them.


----------



## DaveLT

chaoscillator said:


> I'll probably pick up the 668B w/ a clip on mic and some velour pads and see how I like them.


 
 I used a 3M pad to stick on a mic lol. I wouldn't use velours. It sounds very different on the 668B.


----------



## Ruben123

davelt said:


> Tip? No. They are the same as other KZs. Fit? No. There are no issues with fit. Seal? I can't hear anything as they fit on my KZ S3 as well.
> 
> Why so defensive?
> 
> ...


 

 Most people whove tried ED9 at least like, but most love them. Seems that yours are broken perhaps. That has nothing to do with defense.


----------



## Chaoscillator

davelt said:


> I used a 3M pad to stick on a mic lol. I wouldn't use velours. It sounds very different on the 668B.


 
 I'll probably pick up the velours just in case i have an issue with the comfort.

 I think I need more KZ's.. I need to try the ED9, ATE, ED3c.. too many to list.


----------



## Charliemotta

raybone0566 said:


> davelt said:
> 
> 
> > Tip? No. They are the same as other KZs. Fit? No. There are no issues with fit. Seal? I can't hear anything as they fit on my KZ S3 as well.
> ...


 
 Here's a thought...LT apparently represents LOUD TROLL.


----------



## cr0wnest

ruben123 said:


> Most people whove tried ED9 at least like, but most love them. Seems that yours are broken perhaps. That has nothing to do with defense.




Just because mine sounded harsh doesn't mean it's broken. We all have our sound preferences and our perception of hearing differs from person to person, and the type of music also affects the performance of the IEM. 

For many the ED9 might be the best of the KZ lineup. But for me it's the ED3 Youth and S3. Because to my ears it's more balanced and the treble is detailed enough to stay within my threshold without that spike. I would like the ED9 more if it just didn't sound so harsh.

You guys might not agree on that, but that is my experience with the ED9.


----------



## Ruben123

cr0wnest said:


> Just because mine sounded harsh doesn't mean it's broken. We all have our sound preferences and our perception of hearing differs from person to person, and the type of music also affects the performance of the IEM.
> 
> For many the ED9 might be the best of the KZ lineup. But for me it's the ED3 Youth and S3. Because to my ears it's more balanced and the treble is detailed enough to stay within my threshold without that spike. I would like the ED9 more if it just didn't sound so harsh.
> 
> You guys might not agree on that, but that is my experience with the ED9.




If you both find your ed9 to sound harsh it sounds very plausible that yours is actually harsh or broken. 
I hate harsh earphones but I don't find the ed9 to be harsh when the mesh is correctly fitted. They're actually on the warm side of neutral.


----------



## cr0wnest

ruben123 said:


> If you both find your ed9 to sound harsh it sounds very plausible that yours is actually harsh or broken.
> I hate harsh earphones but I don't find the ed9 to be harsh when the mesh is correctly fitted. They're actually on the warm side of neutral.




Dave doesn't have one. All this while he was in fact referring to mine which I let him try. Anyway I don't think I would want to buy another ED9 just to confirm whether it's really defective or not. I'm pretty happy with the S3 at the moment.


----------



## Ruben123

cr0wnest said:


> Dave doesn't have one. All this while he was in fact referring to mine which I let him try. Anyway I don't think I would want to buy another ED9 just to confirm whether it's really defective or not. I'm pretty happy with the S3 at the moment.




That's why I said that you both find your ed9 tobsound harsh. It's only 1 example and kz's QC isn't that great


----------



## DaveLT

ruben123 said:


> That's why I said that you both find your ed9 tobsound harsh. It's only 1 example and kz's QC isn't that great


 
 This was the same thing the peeps said here about my ED10. It isn't broken.


----------



## rmatech

encoreac said:


> Hmm I am considering getting my first KZ, which one is the best allrounder in the line-up in you guys opinion? The sheer amount of choice is overwhelming me lol.
> 
> What I generally like: Punchy Bass, weighty vocals, extended, flat treble response, upfront sound.




Would also like to know


----------



## Ruben123

rmatech said:


> Would also like to know




Sounds like hds1 but the ed3 s3 might fit too


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> Not at all relative. Why the need to be so defensive when someone says the ED9 is a trebly sibilance-y IEM?
> Both are good but I rather buy the 668B because it's fantastic. The S3 is good as a monitor and the 668B has nice warmth. Just buy both of them lol.


 
 "Why be so defensive" Dude why be so sensitive? I enjoy my ED9 and don't find it "sibilance-y" it's a great sounding iem IMO. Your the one making the broad stroke statements. 
 Check my sig I own the 668 lol.


----------



## Zeebit

I think I'll get the ED3c, ED4, and HDS1.


----------



## CADCAM

zeebit said:


> I think I'll get the ED3c, ED4, and HDS1.


 
 Good choice...I have the ED3 Youth & HDS1 both very good...IMHO.


----------



## Zeebit

cadcam said:


> Good choice...I have the ED3 Youth & HDS1 both very good...IMHO.


 
 A friend of mine has an ED9 but I didn't really like it so I'll give the ED4 a shot. I was once a basshead but ever since I've had my B3P1 and Carbo Tenore my preferences have changed.


----------



## raybone0566

zeebit said:


> A friend of mine has an ED9 but I didn't really like it so I'll give the ED4 a shot. I was once a basshead but ever since I've had my B3P1 and Carbo Tenore my preferences have changed.


I've have ed4 for a while now. Not the best sound KZ. Seems lifeless, like the music has no tone to it. I had high hopes for those.


----------



## Zeebit

raybone0566 said:


> I've have ed4 for a while now. Not the best sound KZ. Seems lifeless, like the music has no tone to it. I had high hopes for those.


 
 They're cheap so I might give it away if I don't like them.


----------



## Chaoscillator

cadcam said:


> Check my sig I own the 668 lol.


 
 You own the 668B and 681 Evo? Which do you like better?


----------



## CADCAM

chaoscillator said:


> You own the 668B and 681 Evo? Which do you like better?


 
 Prob the EVO...it's a very fun listen. The EVO needs the foam mod to tame some excessive low end (details on the EVO forum) but after the mod it sounds great especially for the price.
 The 668b needs some serious burn-in but after, is also very good for the price. I use the velour pads with both, don't listen to them much with the DT880's & HD600's on hand but they are a nice option to have and are pretty easy to drive.


----------



## reimontok

i had the ate for 3-4 months, but the right cable is broken, now im thinking on getting the same, or another similar but with less bass, i found the ate was nearly perfect to me (for the price) but a little bassy, any suggestion ? i was thinkin on get the ed9


----------



## CADCAM

reimontok said:


> i had the ate for 3-4 months, but the right cable is broken, now im thinking on getting the same, or another similar but with less bass, i found the ate was nearly perfect to me (for the price) but a little bassy, any suggestion ? i was thinkin on get the ed9


 
 Great choice IMO. You also get the option of the different nozzles which is nice. I have the ATE's and they are good...a little dark and rolled off but smooth and enjoyable to be sure. I'd say the HDS1 and ED3 Youth are worth a listen also. I have the S3 en-route and have heard good things about them but withhold any opinions until I burn them in and spend some time tip rolling.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Great choice IMO. You also get the option of the different nozzles which is nice. I have the ATE's and they are good...a little dark and rolled off but smooth and enjoyable to be sure. I'd say the HDS1 and ED3 Youth are worth a listen also. I have the S3 en-route and have heard good things about them but withhold any opinions until I burn them in and spend some time tip rolling.




I second the Cad on this that new black ED9 is saxy too


----------



## reimontok

cadcam said:


> Great choice IMO. You also get the option of the different nozzles which is nice. I have the ATE's and they are good...a little dark and rolled off but smooth and enjoyable to be sure. I'd say the HDS1 and ED3 Youth are worth a listen also. I have the S3 en-route and have heard good things about them but withhold any opinions until I burn them in and spend some time tip rolling.


 
 thanks, what about the hds2 ?
 i think i gonna buy the ed9 and another one


----------



## CADCAM

cr0wnest said:


> Dave doesn't have one. All this while he was in fact referring to mine which I let him try. Anyway I don't think I would want to buy another ED9 just to confirm whether it's really defective or not. I'm pretty happy with the S3 at the moment.


 
 Wait this member was making these statements and doesn't even own the hp? This can't be so...


----------



## CADCAM

reimontok said:


> thanks, what about the hds2 ?
> i think i gonna buy the ed9 and another one


 
 I'm sorry but that's one KZ I don't actually own. Other members may be able to give opinions though...


----------



## TwinACStacks

cadcam said:


> Prob the EVO...it's a very fun listen. The EVO needs the foam mod to tame some excessive low end (details on the EVO forum) but after the mod it sounds great especially for the price.
> The 668b needs some serious burn-in but after, is also very good for the price. I use the velour pads with both, don't listen to them much with the DT880's & HD600's on hand but they are a nice option to have and are pretty easy to drive.


 





 CAD you just answered my question: why the heck are you playing around with a $50 pair of Headphones when you Have a Pair of Senns? I adore my 600's. In fact I've grown to like them better than my 650's which are just a tad too veiled. If I want bright I just throw in my AKG 701's or 702's and I'm there. I did the Bass mod on the 702's so now they are a little fuller sounding like the Quincys.
  








 TWIN


----------



## CADCAM

zeebit said:


> A friend of mine has an ED9 but I didn't really like it so I'll give the ED4 a shot. I was once a basshead but ever since I've had my B3P1 and Carbo Tenore my preferences have changed.


 
 I don't have the ED4 so can't comment sorry.
 Just make sure of a couple things with the ED9, first the tiny paper filters on the inside of the brass nozzles need to be in place...not curled up or missing. Also if you unscrew the nozzles there should be a screen inside the actual body in front of the driver. I call it a driver screen but could be wrong on that terminology...either way it should be there to protect the driver itself and also defuse some of the sound...
  
 I also used a tiny bit of a porous air filter material in the nozzles to defuse the sound a bit more...great results.


----------



## CADCAM

twinacstacks said:


> CAD you just answered my question: why the heck are you playing around with a $50 pair of Headphones when you Have a Pair of Senns? I adore my 600's. In fact I've grown to like them better than my 650's which are just a tad too veiled. If I want bright I just throw in my AKG 701's or 702's and I'm there. I did the Bass mod on the 702's so now they are a little fuller sounding like the Quincys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I love options...I have the HD600, DT880 & K612's and enjoy them all. I also have 3 separate hp systems set up at the house. I've been an audiophile for years and love listening...it's like therapy for me. I did a ton of research before deciding on the 600 vs 650 and think I made the right decision although the HD650 is an excellent hp from what I've read and I almost went that route. 
  
 This KZ journey has been an absolute blast and I'm amazed what KZ can do for 6 to 12 bucks! 
 I think some of the prerequisites for posting even on these cheaper hp's is you should own the hp...let them burn in a bit...do some tip rolling and listen to several genres for at least several days before passing judgment. JMHO
 Go KZ!


----------



## DaveLT

reimontok said:


> thanks, what about the hds2 ?
> i think i gonna buy the ed9 and another one


 
 The HDS2 is disappointing. 
  


cadcam said:


> Wait this member was making these statements and doesn't even own the hp? This can't be so...


 
 Wot? Do you not realize he tried my IEMs and I tried his?


----------



## Chaoscillator

cadcam said:


> Prob the EVO...it's a very fun listen. The EVO needs the foam mod to tame some excessive low end (details on the EVO forum) but after the mod it sounds great especially for the price.
> The 668b needs some serious burn-in but after, is also very good for the price. I use the velour pads with both, don't listen to them much with the DT880's & HD600's on hand but they are a nice option to have and are pretty easy to drive.


 
 Cool, guess I'll be picking up the EVO and maybe the 668B at some point. As far as I've heard, some people say the newer EVO doesn't need the mod. I'd love to have some HD600's but as a broke college student I take what I can get.


----------



## raybone0566

I usually like to spend a few weeks with a new product before I post impressions. Try numerous tips, work on the fit, etc. that way your giving the product a fair chance, and not misleading potential buyers with misinformation.


----------



## DaveLT

raybone0566 said:


> I usually like to spend a few weeks with a new product before I post impressions. Try numerous tips, work on the fit, etc. that way your giving the product a fair chance, and not misleading potential buyers with misinformation.



Both of us said the same about the ED9.


----------



## CADCAM

chaoscillator said:


> Cool, guess I'll be picking up the EVO and maybe the 668B at some point. As far as I've heard, some people say the newer EVO doesn't need the mod. I'd love to have some HD600's but as a broke college student I take what I can get.


 
 Let me tell you the EVO (and 668) sound pretty good and you could do a lot worse. Listen to the EVO when they come in and if they have a bit too much bass for you check if they have a thick black piece of felt glued to the driver screen... mine did and I think mine were the newer version...anyway carefully remove it and replace it with a thinner piece of material. I used a white 100% cotton makeup pad thingy I stole from my wife and it was a great improvement. Some people remove the felt and don't replace it with anything but that was a little too much for me. I think you'll like the EVO it's a good inexpensive full size can...great fun. I've been listening to my Superlux's in between listening to KZ's and they are a blast if you aren't too critical on them. 
 Finish your education and get yourself a decent job, you can then get whatever headphones you want.


----------



## CADCAM

raybone0566 said:


> I usually like to spend a few weeks with a new product before I post impressions. Try numerous tips, work on the fit, etc. that way your giving the product a fair chance, and not misleading potential buyers with misinformation.


 
 I've been reading your posts for a while now raybone and you've got my respect.


----------



## raybone0566

davelt said:


> Both of us said the same about the ED9.


The ed9 is quite high regarded and most people feel it's the best KZ offering. The fact that you find the treble harsh is to be honest, unusual because most members do not. That's the reason I suggested tip rolling. Tip rolling by way, does not mean try another KZ tip. In fact, I don't use KZ tips on any of my earphones. I usually discard them an opt for my preferred tip. That's why I don't post impressions immediately as I feel you need time to get to know the earphone. You may even have to make mods. With ed9 tip selection was all I had to change. Lots of factors go into finding the best sound. that could take a day, week, or longer.


----------



## chompchomps

Totally agree on the part on tip rolling. Tips do make a difference..isolation, width of bores,comfort.. sometimes the thickness of the material will affect comfort too.. some prefer the biflange or triflanges..


----------



## Arsis

cadcam said:


> Let me tell you the EVO (and 668) sound pretty good and you could do a lot worse. Listen to the EVO when they come in and if they have a bit too much bass for you check if they have a thick black piece of felt glued to the driver screen... mine did and I think mine were the newer version...anyway carefully remove it and replace it with a thinner piece of material. I used a white 100% cotton makeup pad thingy I stole from my wife and it was a great improvement. Some people remove the felt and don't replace it with anything but that was a little too much for me. I think you'll like the EVO it's a good inexpensive full size can...great fun. I've been listening to my Superlux's in between listening to KZ's and they are a blast if you aren't too critical on them.
> Finish your education and get yourself a decent job, you can then get whatever headphones you want.


+1 on the Evo. I have 668b and 660 too. All really sound good especially for the price. My order of preference is Evo, 660, 668b.


----------



## DaveLT

raybone0566 said:


> The ed9 is quite high regarded and most people feel it's the best KZ offering. The fact that you find the treble harsh is to be honest, unusual because most members do not. That's the reason I suggested tip rolling. Tip rolling by way, does not mean try another KZ tip. In fact, I don't use KZ tips on any of my earphones. I usually discard them an opt for my preferred tip. That's why I don't post impressions immediately as I feel you need time to get to know the earphone. You may even have to make mods. With ed9 tip selection was all I had to change. Lots of factors go into finding the best sound. that could take a day, week, or longer.



It's not like we don't have any tips. I tried every tip I had in my bag, triple flange, double flange, whirlwind, foam and they don't change the sound.
I already put it out there and yet you feel the need to correct my opinion (at least that's you seem like to me) when someone else has a vastly different opinion. It's just a genuinely hot IEM that I heard and it's not a tinny sound either resulting from poor fit. It's highly regarded but what if a trained ear who looks for a neutral signature and a top end that doesn't sound like "teeth"? That wasn't going to happen and it's not like the source is to blame either I've used the same source for over a billion IEMs and my phone is highly regarded as a neutral good driver of any IEMs.
Also it's not my first time buying a KZ either. You could call my KZ collection vast. 
But I'm getting rid of most of them because they don't match up to the S3 simple as that.

One last thing, on the xiaomi hybrid thread many said that it is dark and yet I get people telling me not to stop saying it's dark just because Twin a older member said it's not? Oppression?
Just to confirm again, crownest also tried the hybrid and it's anything but bright.


----------



## sgl54

davelt said:


> It's not like we don't have any tips. I tried every tip I had in my bag, triple flange, double flange, whirlwind, foam and they don't change the sound.
> I already put it out there and yet you feel the need to correct my opinion (at least that's you seem like to me) when someone else has a vastly different opinion. It's just a genuinely hot IEM that I heard and it's not a tinny sound either resulting from poor fit. It's highly regarded but what if a trained ear who looks for a neutral signature and a top end that doesn't sound like "teeth"? That wasn't going to happen and it's not like the source is to blame either I've used the same source for over a billion IEMs and my phone is highly regarded as a neutral good driver of any IEMs.
> Also it's not my first time buying a KZ either. You could call my KZ collection vast.
> But I'm getting rid of most of them because they don't match up to the S3 simple as that.
> ...



Ah well you're up against it now! You've clearly, articulately comunicated why in fact the 9's don't work for you as they do for most. The young guns are up in arms, the ageists would be up in arm if they could get them over their heads and you've maintained a cordial tone haven't resulted to taunts, insinuations or breast beating. I'm completely impressed not many can hold up under such pressure. That said the 9's do work for me ( puts me in the average group ) but they are no where near as good as my Zn1's ( back in the 1% group ) so my advise is stand tuff you're doing good and while average is nice it can always be better. Plus the rest of can always point to you and say " That guy yeah I heard about him" instant noteriety!


----------



## Shawn71

davelt said:


> Brass has heavier bass than the gold, so it's warmer but the gold is neutral ... which makes it sound sharp and harsh, they are both equally sharp and harsh on both filters.




Ok. So I had spent some time with these (ed9) again after a quite long time and yes,they are harsh only when the volume is stepped up but no sibilance to me even at this level.I usually set the volume at 40-55% for normal listening and upto 80-90% only when my ears demand,which is rare. The harshness is in the upper mids and the treble is smooth,natural.The tips I used were the stock Ms.And btw,the filters (sound) are quite the other way around,for me,to yours.
Infact I prefer these to the one I bought lately by the name S3 (not kz's), ed9s blow them out of the water in many ways,to me....


----------



## CoiL

Hey! I`m back from vacation! ;P If someone bothers, then fast feedback about new KZ IEM would be nice. As far as I remember last one I heard of was HDS1. Any newcomer that is on/above SQ level of ED9 / ATE-b / ED10 / HDS1 / ZN1 / ANV ?
  
 Edit: Oh, forgot to mention that I received promo sample of KZ hands-free bluetooth 4.0 in-ear for smartphones. It works great and has silicone "leg" that holds it nicely in place. Haven`t tested battery life yet but so far good.


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> Hey! I`m back from vacation! ;P If someone bothers, then fast feedback about new KZ IEM would be nice. As far as I remember last one I heard of was HDS1. Any newcomer that is on/above SQ level of ED9 / ATE-b / ED10 / HDS1 / ZN1 / ANV ?




new modes?,yes....hds2,zn1 mini,zs1,ed3 youth,ed4,ate-s,ed9 black.


----------



## DaveLT

And ED3 S3 as well as HDS3


----------



## CoiL

ATE-S sounds different than ATE-b ? If, then what`s the difference?
 Also, ED9S (black) any different from original ED9?
  
 Sorry if my questions are annoying... too many pages to read backwards


----------



## DaveLT

coil said:


> ATE-S sounds different than ATE-b ? If, then what`s the difference?
> Also, ED9S (black) any different from original ED9?
> 
> Sorry if my questions are annoying... too many pages to read backwards


 
 There is a ATE-b?
  
 No difference.


----------



## kaiteck

davelt said:


> There is a ATE-b?
> 
> No difference.


 
 There should be. Afterall, they are using different sound drivers claimed by KZ.


----------



## DaveLT

kaiteck said:


> There should be. Afterall, they are using different sound drivers claimed by KZ.


 
 Nope, the sellers rightfully said ED9 and ED9S is just different colors. Different sound drivers could be a claim from another shop


----------



## kaiteck

davelt said:


> Nope, the sellers rightfully said ED9 and ED9S is just different colors. Different sound drivers could be a claim from another shop


 
 not the ed9 ==
  
 I meant kz ate-s


----------



## raybone0566

Just for the record. No one is judged for what they like or don't like here. We merely offer suggestions. Currently listening to ed11 with spiral-dot tips and sound is fantastic. Though quite expensive, more than the price of most kz's actually. I get the best results with them.


----------



## DaveLT

kaiteck said:


> not the ed9 ==
> 
> I meant kz ate-s


 
 Oh. No. I mean the KZ ATE-b, does it exist even? ATE-S is far bassier than the ATE.


raybone0566 said:


> Just for the record. No one is judged for what they like or don't like here. We merely offer suggestions. Currently listening to ed11 with spiral-dot tips and sound is fantastic. Though quite expensive, more than the price of most kz's actually. I get the best results with them.


 The ED11 is 10$ last I checked? anyway the ED11 is a customized ED10 from the shops not KZ themselves. @cr0wnest has a ED11 and I have a ED10 and our collective opinion is that it's ... hopeless. Worse than plain out don't like but just ... ya. Disappointing.


----------



## EISENbricher

HDS 3 looks enticing! With already lovely looks and ergonomics of HDS1, now even better with aluminium body I'm definitely getting one.
 Hopefully it'll have the similar driver. The nice balanced sound sig of HDS1 stands out in the KZ lineup.
  
 Has anybody received it? Would appreciate some comments.


----------



## kaiteck

davelt said:


> Oh. No. I mean the KZ ATE-b, does it exist even? ATE-S is far bassier than the ATE.


 
 I think kz ate-b is a custom made by coil


----------



## CoiL

To clarify, ATE-b is known as ATE 2nd edition with black (b) enclosure. But now I should use different naming as I called ATE silver version also as new ATE-S. The grill-modded version I called ATE-GM and wood-modded ATE-FF ("Forest fairy" mod).
  
  
 Did littlebit reading and atm I think my to buy list will be following (by buying order):
 1. HDS1
 2. ED4
 3. HDS2
 4. HDS3
 5. ED3 (Acme)
  
 Next month... shopping time...


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> To clarify, ATE-b is known as ATE 2nd edition with black (b) enclosure. But now I should use different naming as I called ATE silver version also as new ATE-S. The grill-modded version I called ATE-GM and wood-modded ATE-FF ("Forest fairy" mod).
> 
> 
> Did littlebit reading and atm I think my to buy list will be following (by buying order):
> ...




Might I politely suggest skipping the HDS2? I'm pretty forgiving of flawed earphones, but they're not worth the cash unless you need spare eartips for an EPH-100. Great soundstage, but so very veiled. Quite the disappointment


----------



## CADCAM

davelt said:


> I already put it out there and yet you feel the need to correct my opinion  It's highly regarded but what if a trained ear who looks for a neutral signature and a top end that doesn't sound like "teeth"? That wasn't going to happen and it's not like the source is to blame either I've used the same source for over a billion IEMs and my phone is highly regarded as a neutral good driver of any IEMs.





> Also it's not my first time buying a KZ either. You could call my KZ collection vast.


 
 Dude no one is correcting you we just aren't agreeing with you. If your trained ear, over billion iem's and phone say the ED9 isn't for you I'm fine with that. I happen to like the ED9 ok?
 Let's move on...


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> >
> >
> >
> ...


 
 HDS2 is _so very veiled_? Hmmm... I`m soundstage junkie... but how does this "veilness" compare to ATE (2nd black version) ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> HDS2 is _so very veiled_? Hmmm... I`m soundstage junkie... but how does this "veilness" compare to ATE (2nd black version) ?




I don't have the black one, but the silver ATE is miles more clear. HSD2 sounds like your average muffled bassy earphone. It's not up to the standards expected from KZ. Soundstage isn't enough to save them unfortunately.


----------



## CoiL

Ok. Thanks for Your input, will ditch them from list


----------



## Yaku22

i noticed some said the(kz ate) silver version have different sound from the black ? B9Scrambler


----------



## B9Scrambler

yaku22 said:


> i noticed some said the(kz ate) silver version have different sound from the black ? B9Scrambler




True that. Some have said they sound different, others the same. Could be due to the change in plastic used. I can't confirm since I've only heard various silver models.


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> Might I politely suggest skipping the HDS2? I'm pretty forgiving of flawed earphones, but they're not worth the cash unless you need spare eartips for an EPH-100. Great soundstage, but so very veiled. Quite the disappointment




True for the yam style bi-flange tips and same goes to the shells and the cable for diy projects......


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> To clarify, ATE-b is known as ATE 2nd edition with black (b) enclosure. But now I should use different naming as I called ATE silver version also as new ATE-S. The grill-modded version I called ATE-GM and wood-modded ATE-FF ("Forest fairy" mod).
> 
> 
> Did littlebit reading and atm I think my to buy list will be following (by buying order):
> ...




How about ordering 2/4 or both first (this week!) and rest next month?....


----------



## sgl54

coil said:


> Hey! I`m back from vacation! ;P If someone bothers, then fast feedback about new KZ IEM would be nice. As far as I remember last one I heard of was HDS1. Any newcomer that is on/above SQ level of ED9 / ATE-b / ED10 / HDS1 / ZN1 / ANV ?
> 
> Edit: Oh, forgot to mention that I received promo sample of KZ hands-free bluetooth 4.0 in-ear for smartphones. It works great and has silicone "leg" that holds it nicely in place. Haven`t tested battery life yet but so far good.



Vaction, they let you have vacation? Good stuff. Hope you went some where fun and warm. Even here in California we visit the "sun" in winter. As far as new Kz's, there's that underlying "susseration" ( hum of movement and anticipation ) that just has to mean something magic coming soon. Otherwise no huge changes, welcome back.


----------



## Yaku22

And i guess we have to wait for the bell then.still people its only 11january guys, year still far ahead..if i can request to kz right i swear would ask them to make counterattack iem to xiaomi hybrid since it is so overhype right now.mostly basshead lover want to suck it hard yeah! Fortunately,im not into bass right (preserve my hear lol) as i will take the detail and clarity pretty high.though i would want they to make oem semiopen back,as i see lot of oem debuts semiopen back.✌.i love how they made various product past years,lots and lots of people enjoy how they made one after after another eds...i hope ill see more this year


----------



## cr0wnest

shawn71 said:


> Ok. So I had spent some time with these (ed9) again after a quite long time and yes,they are harsh only when the volume is stepped up but no sibilance to me even at this level.I usually set the volume at 40-55% for normal listening and upto 80-90% only when my ears demand,which is rare. The harshness is in the upper mids and the treble is smooth,natural.The tips I used were the stock Ms.And btw,the filters (sound) are quite the other way around,for me,to yours.
> Infact I prefer these to the one I bought lately by the name S3 (not kz's), ed9s blow them out of the water in many ways,to me....




You are right about the ED9 siblance there. Naturally it gets harsher as you increase the volume. I think it's because the ED9 puts more emphasis on certain frequencies which make it harsher than say, the ED3 youth or S3. Because I can listen all 3 IEM's on the same track at the same volume and the ED9 will still come out as the harshest. One thing the ED9 got right is it's sound stage and overall resolution. Looking back, I would say the S3 is an ED9 done right without the harshness. I still keep the ED9 with me, and I don't plan on parting with it. But the S3 will continue to be my main driver for now.

Refer to this post I made quite a few pages back. It will explain why Dave and myself find the ED9 so harsh. http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/8715#post_12226621
And keep in mind we both listen to at least one same genre of music that is JPOP.


----------



## DaveLT

coil said:


> To clarify, ATE-b is known as ATE 2nd edition with black (b) enclosure. But now I should use different naming as I called ATE silver version also as new ATE-S. The grill-modded version I called ATE-GM and wood-modded ATE-FF ("Forest fairy" mod).
> 
> 
> Did littlebit reading and atm I think my to buy list will be following (by buying order):
> ...


 
 Lol ... The ATE with a memory wire is officially an ATE-S. It's far bassier than a ATE. Too much midbass bloat in fact.
 Just label the silver as ATE silver and that will work better.
 You might want to look into getting the S3 too as that easily tops the ED3 Youth or the HDS1. 


cadcam said:


> Dude no one is correcting you we just aren't agreeing with you. If your trained ear, over billion iem's and phone say the ED9 isn't for you I'm fine with that. I happen to like the ED9 ok?
> Let's move on...


 
 So by not agreeing with me I must be attacked for having borrowed a ED9 from someone else? OK. 
 Or the fact that it's NOT broken? 
  


cr0wnest said:


> You are right about the ED9 siblance there. Naturally it gets harsher as you increase the volume. I think it's because the ED9 puts more emphasis on certain frequencies which make it harsher than say, the ED3 youth or S3. Because I can listen all 3 IEM's on the same track at the same volume and the ED9 will still come out as the harshest. One thing the ED9 got right is it's sound stage and overall resolution. Looking back, I would say the S3 is an ED9 done right without the harshness. I still keep the ED9 with me, and I don't plan on parting with it. But the S3 will continue to be my main driver for now.
> 
> Refer to this post I made quite a few pages back. It will explain why Dave and myself find the ED9 so harsh. http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/8715#post_12226621
> And keep in mind we both listen to at least one same genre of music that is JPOP.


 And also the same songs. It does have a frequency hump the ED9 in the upper mids.


----------



## raybone0566

Ed11's in the morning, now going to roll with the ed10's for the rest of the day.


----------



## 1clearhead

Guys, don't forget to add the *KZ-S4 *to your list.....
  
 They probably look like the ED4's, but I'm sure the sound signature is different the same way S3 is to ED3 (Youth or originals).
  
 It seems to me that the "S" versions are the balanced or detailed versions of the ED's.
  



  
 .....will receive mines next week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141003.23.t1qY1f&scm=1007.10011.18908.100200300000001&id=526080912664&pvid=e2f4fcc6-9088-4084-a600-12b5f4227e9f


----------



## B9Scrambler

Well, it's no S4, but ED4 arrived. Haven't done anything other than unbox them yet.
  

  
  
 ​


----------



## cr0wnest

1clearhead said:


> Guys, don't forget to add the *KZ-S4* to your list.....
> 
> They probably look like the ED4's, but I'm sure the sound signature is different the same way S3 is to ED3 (Youth or originals).
> 
> ...




Oddly enough on AE its known as the Z1 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED8M-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/32256027095.html

I'm not sure what to make of this...


----------



## fallrsk

Yeah 1clearhead we found it first as the Z1.. Ugh, headaches lol! Now that there seems to be an official S4 naming.. I'm interested in the new edition of my to-date faves


----------



## 1clearhead

fallrsk said:


> Yeah @1clearhead we found it first as the Z1.. Ugh, headaches lol! Now that there seems to be an official S4 naming.. I'm interested in the new edition of my to-date faves


 
  
 Yea, it seems that KZ is coming out with new versions every other week. It's getting hard for me to hit that purchase button.


----------



## fallrsk

1clearhead said:


> Yea, it seems that KZ is coming out with new versions every other week. It's getting hard for me to hit that purchase button.




They're just in their sound labs like pinky and the brain "what do we do now?!" "Release more... WEEKLY!

Everytime we hype train something, everyone gets a raise lol.


----------



## B9Scrambler

New or not, out of the box I'm quite liking the ED4. They remind me a lot of the ED3 "The Acme" but with improved treble extension (which I can see others finding too emphasized) and a much larger soundstage. I'm guessing warmer sources will be preferred with these. Seem to play quite well with rock, Rage Against the Machine in particular since that's almost entirely what I've been listening to since the unboxing 

Now for some unattended play time.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Well, it's no S4, but ED4 arrived. Haven't done anything other than unbox them yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are we sure this is a whole new iem or just a black version ala the ED9's?


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Are we sure this is a whole new iem or just a black version ala the ED9's?




S4 might just be a black version of the ED4, but I'm not going to be the person to tell you what's what.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> S4 might just be a black version of the ED4, but I'm not going to be the person to tell you what's what.


 

 Oh I'm sure more people will break it down as they hit mailboxes, I know it did not stop me from ordering a saxy black pair of ED9's


----------



## fallrsk

Has anyone with the ED4 ordered the S4 or will I be that guy?


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Oh I'm sure more people will break it down as they hit mailboxes, I know it did not stop me from ordering a saxy black pair of ED9's




No doubt! Those new ED9s are really good looking. Was thinking of getting them even if I'm not a huge fan of the ED9, lol. I did however order the HDS3, EDR2, and because I've always wanted to try them, the C56R.


----------



## dokkj

Man, tomorrow it's going to be 41 days since they shipped my ED9 Black and HDS1. If they don't show up tomorrow, I might as well get them to expedite ship me a new pair (or I'll just pick out new ones or something, got any recommendations?) and name drop the ebay seller.
  
 This is ridiculous.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I waited 30 days on HDS1, then discussed with seller, so they resent, 30 days latter I got eBay to get me a refund.  It will be interesting if we used the same seller.
  
 r2
  
 ps: Reordered and more from an Ali store which has never let me down.


----------



## Audio-kun

Which ebay seller was it, I'm about to buy HDS1 from there.


----------



## DaveLT

b9scrambler said:


> No doubt! Those new ED9s are really good looking. Was thinking of getting them even if I'm not a huge fan of the ED9, lol. I did however order the HDS3, EDR2, and because I've always wanted to try them, the C56R.




Isn't the C56R like really old for a KZ?


----------



## Audio-kun

What's the best value EDR1 for $4.44, ED3 for $6, or HDS1 for $7(ebay - onfine2008)?


----------



## B9Scrambler

davelt said:


> Isn't the C56R like really old for a KZ?




Sure is  Pretty sure it's one of the g.k. models from around the time of the original ANV, maybe older. Can't wait to hear it!


----------



## Mustache

Hey guys, reading some pages back i got that the KZ S3 is the favourite for some of you guys. I had a "normal" ED3 for some time and the cable broke. 
 So, looking for the S3 on aliexpress i only find one item that is this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.37.SWGY5S&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201644_3_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6148
  
 Is this the right one? The price is right? 
 Thx in advance.


----------



## eklips

how do u guys do the kz-ate mod?
  
 can provide step-by-step guide? where to get the materials too?


----------



## CADCAM

mustache said:


> Hey guys, reading some pages back i got that the KZ S3 is the favourite for some of you guys. I had a "normal" ED3 for some time and the cable broke.
> So, looking for the S3 on aliexpress i only find one item that is this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.37.SWGY5S&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201644_3_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62_9999,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_6148
> 
> Is this the right one? The price is right?
> Thx in advance.


 
 That's where I ordered mine Jan 2nd...nothing yet but hopefully all goes well. I'll post shipping time & opinions when they arrive.  
 BTW I also have the original ED3 and also the newer ED3 youth.


----------



## Ruben123

I can see how you _might _find the ED9s harsh even when they are not. Their frequency response is that "special" that if you want the amount of bass that suits your style, you really have to crank up the volume quite up but then of course the highs will go up in volume too. If you are used to their sound signature (I am, having quite some flat frequency response speakers and other headphones) you wont turn your volume that high for that bass response I/we are not seeking.


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> I can see how you _might _find the ED9s harsh even when they are not. Their frequency response is that "special" that if you want the amount of bass that suits your style, you really have to crank up the volume quite up but then of course the highs will go up in volume too. If you are used to their sound signature (I am, having quite some flat frequency response speakers and other headphones) you wont turn your volume that high for that bass response I/we are not seeking.


 
 I really enjoy the ED9...listening to it last night and just amazed it cost only 12 bucks. Great detail extraction, nice stage and presentation.
 I have 2 pair and keep eyeing those black versions...


----------



## Ruben123

cadcam said:


> I really enjoy the ED9...listening to it last night and just amazed it cost only 12 bucks. Great detail extraction, nice stage and presentation.
> I have 2 pair and keep eyeing those black versions...


 

 Yeah love mine too. Havent used them anymore since HDS1 arrived a month ago but theyre really great too.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I really enjoy the ED9...listening to it last night and just amazed it cost only 12 bucks. Great detail extraction, nice stage and presentation.
> I have 2 pair and keep eyeing those black versions...


 

 Still my fave KZ and I had to have that Saxy Black pair
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So just got off AliEx and looking at all the KZ's I'm just wondering how different the ED3, ED3 Youth, EDS3 and ED4's sound from each other. I have pretty much ended my KZ adventures with the black ED9's besides I've gone and done the **** UE, UE Customs and HCK UE's now, of course I'm hoping these custom's sound $30-$40 better than all these $10-$12 KZ's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure hope these IEM Anonymous meetings I'm going to would kick in before me wallet caves in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course when I'm feeling low I just think about Twin and all the iem's he's been buying and I'm OK then
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## Enuma-elis

Hi guys. I am the one of the "grandpa's" of KZ customers, who bought a Ate and ED10 a half year ago. I am not able to keep the pace with KZ speed of releasing new models, so just asking: Anything new worth buying from KZ? Something like Ate- spatious, less bassy and clean?


----------



## Hisoundfi

Ed9

Hds1


----------



## Enuma-elis

HDS1 seems intriguing (I just don't generally like open back iem design), that's also a reason for what I've always refused the ed9. Can you write a few words, how does the HDS1 compare to Ate? THX


----------



## Mustache

cadcam said:


> That's where I ordered mine Jan 2nd...nothing yet but hopefully all goes well. I'll post shipping time & opinions when they arrive.
> BTW I also have the original ED3 and also the newer ED3 youth.


 
 Thanks, i got one edr1 (?) in my country so i don't have to wait that much for the headphones. The picture on the listing is this one:
 http://mlb-s1-p.mlstatic.com/original-kz-edr1-fone-de-ouvido-in-ear-baixo-hifi-dj-headpho-560311-MLB20501896476_112015-O.jpg
  
 But i'm thinking of getting a S3 on aliexpress and leaving this edr1 for backup.
 How in your opinion the ED3 compare with the ED3 youth, HDS1, ED9 and the ATE's?
 Thx in advance. Loved my first experience with the KZ brand. My headphones have been washed like 3 times in the washing machine and were still working. Unfortunately they had the damn broken cord problem, which i think it's impossible to avoid, so i think i will stick with the brand for a while.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mustache said:


> Thanks, i got one edr1 (?) in my country so i don't have to wait that much for the headphones. The picture on the listing is this one:
> http://mlb-s1-p.mlstatic.com/original-kz-edr1-fone-de-ouvido-in-ear-baixo-hifi-dj-headpho-560311-MLB20501896476_112015-O.jpg
> 
> But i'm thinking of getting a S3 on aliexpress and leaving this edr1 for backup.
> ...


 
 Question wasn't directed at me, but I have all the iems mentioned ('cept the S3) so I might as well toss in my 2 cents. This is just my opinion of course.
  
 Bass:
  
 ED3 Youth > ED9 (G) > HDS1 > ED9 (B) ATE > ED3
  
 The ED3 Youth and ED9 (gold filter = G) models have the most bass, with greatest mid-bass boost and sub-bass extension. On the other end of the spectrum you have the ATE which rolls off early and is very relaxing. The ED3 doesn't have a ton of bass, but it's exceptionally quick and nimble. The HDS1 has a nice amount of bass with a minor mid-bass bump, but it's well balanced overall. The ED9 (B) is much the same.
  
 Mids:
  
 ATE > HDS1 > ED3 > ED9 (B) > ED3 Youth > ED9 (G)
  
 My ATE (and the other three I had in my possession up until X-Mas) were all mid-focused with early roll-off in both bass and treble. Vocals are nice and warm. HDS1 shares these qualities but they're not as forward. ED3 Youth has really nice mids, but they lack detail vs. the rest of the field, including the ED9 (G). That said the ED9 (G) is the most v-shaped of the bunch. They're all very close overall, but the ATE in my opinion is the best for mids.
  
 Treble (this is where I'll get some flack):
  
 HDS1  > ED3 Youth > ATE = ED3 >> ED9 (G) > ED9 (B)
  
 The HDS1 has the cleanest treble overall. It is very refined and detailed, though not as detailed as the ED3. The ED3 has the best detail and resolution of the group, but they can get pretty harsh. The ATE is super smooth though they lack detail compared to the rest of the group. On the plus side they're never fatiguing. Then we have the ED9. They have great detail and resolution, but they're too splashy and sloppy for my liking. That's pretty much the only thing that stops me from enjoying them. Too bad, cause everything else is awesome.
  
 Out of this bunch I think the HDS1, ATE, and ED9 are the ones to buy. Why? HDS1 for a high quality balanced sound, ATE for relaxed listening, and the ED9 for some good variety even if their treble presentation can be questionable at times.
  
 Since the S3 is getting such positive reception from some KZ vets, I am sure they are definitely worth serious consideration. Now that I have the ED4 in for review there is little incentive to try the S3. It's a pretty enjoyable listen.


----------



## DaveLT

ruben123 said:


> I can see how you _might _find the ED9s harsh even when they are not. Their frequency response is that "special" that if you want the amount of bass that suits your style, you really have to crank up the volume quite up but then of course the highs will go up in volume too. If you are used to their sound signature (I am, having quite some flat frequency response speakers and other headphones) you wont turn your volume that high for that bass response I/we are not seeking.


 
 Thing is, I am used to flat response speakers.


enuma-elis said:


> Hi guys. I am the one of the "grandpa's" of KZ customers, who bought a Ate and ED10 a half year ago. I am not able to keep the pace with KZ speed of releasing new models, so just asking: Anything new worth buying from KZ? Something like Ate- spatious, less bassy and clean?


 
 KZ ED3 Youth, ED3 S3


----------



## CADCAM

mustache said:


> Thanks, i got one edr1 (?) in my country so i don't have to wait that much for the headphones. The picture on the listing is this one:
> http://mlb-s1-p.mlstatic.com/original-kz-edr1-fone-de-ouvido-in-ear-baixo-hifi-dj-headpho-560311-MLB20501896476_112015-O.jpg
> 
> But i'm thinking of getting a S3 on aliexpress and leaving this edr1 for backup.
> ...


 
 That link looks like my EDSE which I really like powered from my Sansa Clip while in the gym. The EDSE is the first iem I've heard that sounds just as good (maybe better) from the Clip as my home iem system. Good detail and nice lows...really fun sounding out of the Clip IMO.
  
 I have the S3 on order but it hasn't arrived.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The ED3 Perfection is a pretty good iem for 6 bucks, I was impressed with its build quality and it sounds quite good. I found its treble could get a little ragged on some of my material. The ED3 Acme Youth is a bit better at everything...better highs, more bass and an overall improvement but it also can get a little ragged in the treble region on some stuff but 90% of the time it sounds awesome and is also one of my top 3 favorites. I think the grain or raggedness may be a byproduct of the recording as well as the hp.
  
 The ATE is smooth, dark and pleasing to the ear. I don't listen to it much but it's a real nice dark sounding iem that would probably sound great on recordings with aggressive highs as I think it would tame them down... it sounded pretty good to me with everything I threw at it. 
  
 HDS1 is balanced, more neutral across the board. I really enjoy this iem and it's in my top 3. Small and comfy it looks like a toy but sounds like it should cost 50 bucks.
  
 ED9 is probably my fav (along with the HDS1 and ED3 youth) it just clicks with me pretty much top to bottom. I use the brass filters most of the time but have a second pair loaded with  gold filters and it sounds good and possibly more fun but also unrealistic with too much bass (for me).
  
 Most every KZ is good... some are great... all are worth the asking price...enjoy!


----------



## Mustache

I payed my KZ S3 for 12 bucks, just wait now!
 I'm thinking of getting a ATE too, just one question about it, that golden "ring" that is on the connection of the earpieces to the cable, is that a removable cable mechanism? If so, just one more reason to buy it! Thx guys for all the help!


----------



## 1clearhead

mustache said:


> I payed my KZ S3 for 12 bucks, just wait now!
> I'm thinking of getting a ATE too, just one question about it, that golden "ring" that is on the connection of the earpieces to the cable, is that a removable cable mechanism? If so, just one more reason to buy it! Thx guys for all the help!


 
  
 Excellent choice! ......You can't go wrong with the S3's!
 Let the music begin!


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> Question wasn't directed at me, but I have all the iems mentioned ('cept the S3) so I might as well toss in my 2 cents. This is just my opinion of course.
> 
> Bass:
> 
> ...


 
 I think all in all we are pretty close with the opinions on the different models...except my ED9's. I must have gotten 2 superior builds


----------



## CADCAM

mustache said:


> I payed my KZ S3 for 12 bucks, just wait now!
> I'm thinking of getting a ATE too, just one question about it, that golden "ring" that is on the connection of the earpieces to the cable, is that a removable cable mechanism? If so, just one more reason to buy it! Thx guys for all the help!


 
 If it's the first ATE I believe those are weights to help stabilize the cables...


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I think all in all we are pretty close with the opinions on the different models...except my ED9's. I must have gotten 2 superior builds


 
  
 Looks like it  Don't get me wrong, I think the ED9 is great it's just not one of my personal favorites. They are right up there as one of my top recommendations however.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Looks like it  Don't get me wrong, I think the ED9 is great it's just not one of my personal favorites. They are right up there as one of my top recommendations however.




B9.... Happy New Year 

Could you give Masta Wokei some comparison impression of FXH30 with ED9 and Havi ?

Cheers ....


----------



## ayao

mustache said:


> I'm thinking of getting a ATE too, just one question about it, that golden "ring" that is on the connection of the earpieces to the cable, is that a removable cable mechanism? If so, just one more reason to buy it! Thx guys for all the help!


 
 The ATE does not have removable cables, though it does look like it.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> Looks like it  Don't get me wrong, I think the ED9 is great it's just not one of my personal favorites. They are right up there as one of my top recommendations however.


 
 I have no problem with you not liking the ED9 as much as myself. That's why there's different models right...
 You give your opinions in a manner I respect... and enjoy. 
 My days may be numbered here though as I consider the Puro IEM500


----------



## carltonh

cadcam said:


> If it's the first ATE I believe those are weights to help stabilize the cables...


 

 I just got the ATE-S in the mail today and it also has those weights. they aren't heavy or a problem.
  
 I also got the ZN1 mini. It is too early for me to give an opinion on either's sound...but if you want an IEM for quick in and out to go back and forth between music and being social, neither are ideal. But both are comfortable if you want to leave them on for a good while.


----------



## cr0wnest

mustache said:


> I payed my KZ S3 for 12 bucks, just wait now!
> I'm thinking of getting a ATE too, just one question about it, that golden "ring" that is on the connection of the earpieces to the cable, is that a removable cable mechanism? If so, just one more reason to buy it! Thx guys for all the help!







1clearhead said:


> Excellent choice! ......You can't go wrong with the S3's!
> Let the music begin!




+1
The S3 is my main driver now. To my ears its got the most balanced sound signature out of all the KZ's I've tried so far, and vocals especially sound really good on them.

Gonna try the S4 and hope it all goes well too!


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> B9.... Happy New Year
> 
> Could you give Masta Wokei some comparison impression of FXH30 with ED9 and Havi ?
> 
> Cheers ....


 
  
 Happy new year to you too man! I can certainly do that for you. Have to go to bed though, so I'll have to get back to you tomorrow. Edit: Do you have the VE Monk yet? If not, I think they are something you would enjoy. Just a good sounding product, and at that price the value is absolutely bonkers.
  


cadcam said:


> I have no problem with you not liking the ED9 as much as myself. That's why there's different models right...
> You give your opinions in a manner I respect... and enjoy.
> My days may be numbered here though as I consider the Puro IEM500


 
  





 Glad you enjoy my ramblings, lol. I enjoy your posts for the same reason.
  
 I thought my days playing around with these hyper-budget iems would be over with the FXH30, Titan 1, Havi B3, and AKG K553 Pro, but I always miss my KZs after a while. They're not the best earphones in the world, but they have a lot of character. Not just in their sound but in design too. They're quirky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Pretty sure the ANV, ZS1, and Micro Ring will always have a place in my collection.


----------



## 1clearhead

cr0wnest said:


> +1
> The S3 is my main driver now. To my ears its got the most balanced sound signature out of all the KZ's I've tried so far, and vocals especially sound really good on them.
> 
> Gonna try the S4 and hope it all goes well too!


 

 I'm also looking forward to mines.....waiting for them to arrive!
  
 Oh....the anticipation drives me crazy!


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> Happy new year to you too man! I can certainly do that for you. Have to go to bed though, so I'll have to get back to you tomorrow. Edit: Do you have the VE Monk yet? If not, I think they are something you would enjoy. Just a good sounding product, and at that price the value is absolutely bonkers.
> 
> 
> Glad you enjoy my ramblings, lol. I enjoy your posts for the same reason.
> ...




Nope ... no Monk ....infact have not bought anything since last year ...muahahahahahaha

But very interested in FXH30 ..seeing that we sort of knda have similar take on KZ except ED9 ......just messing with you bro

Take your time on the impression ....in no hurry ....btw keep on ramblings ...me likey


----------



## carltonh

So far with the ZN1 Mini, I'm very impressed. I think they sound exactly like Earfonia's reviews of the Alpha & Delta AD01 and the Narmoo S1. http://www.head-fi.org/products/alpha-delta-ad01/reviews/14045 Neither of which I have, so anyone compare the ZN1 Mini to these? I haven't actually heard the other two. All three are dual driver dynamics, bass heavy, but not really V-shaped, so treble still equals midrange.
  
 Yet, mindblowing for a sub-$10 earphone. I wish it had a smartphone mic. Without it, it competes with by Sony XB90 for laptop time. Though oddly enough, the ZN1 Mini jack does have the three ring connector, even though there is no mic or pause button. I guess one of the oddities of the budget range..I'm still not making relative comparisons due to lack of burn in.


----------



## EISENbricher

carltonh said:


> So far with the ZN1 Mini, I'm very impressed. I think they sound exactly like Earfonia's reviews of the Alpha & Delta AD01 and the Narmoo S1. http://www.head-fi.org/products/alpha-delta-ad01/reviews/14045 Neither of which I have, so anyone compare the ZN1 Mini to these? I haven't actually heard the other two. All three are dual driver dynamics, bass heavy, but not really V-shaped, so treble still equals midrange.
> 
> Yet, mindblowing for a sub-$10 earphone. I wish it had a smartphone mic. Without it, it competes with by Sony XB90 for laptop time. Though oddly enough, the ZN1 Mini jack does have the three ring connector, even though there is no mic or pause button. I guess one of the oddities of the budget range..I'm still not making relative comparisons due to lack of burn in.


 
 Interesting. My ZN1 mini will be here soon, waiting for it. 
  
 Which one among XB90EX and ZN1 sounds better to you? I had XB90 in past so can relate with it.


----------



## Yaku22

Ok i just got my kz ate black. I got to say the bass is somewhat bloated my ear,holys! To me the detail is somewhat laidback?lol this is due to some software altered of my device.later i set it to no altering watsoever, so its sound ok.u shape?.somehow i think that the soundstage itself created the bloated bass.remind me of hd681f,its like im in middle sit.i find hd681 red ring best suited me.man i love edm.basically all tomorrowland performer are in my collection.also dont take my thought as such as discouraging you to get any kz iem.anyway ill burnin them now.
p̶/̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶h̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶l̶̶̶̶̶̶̶l̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶y̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶h̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶.̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶S̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶n̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶'̶̶̶̶̶̶̶g̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶!̶̶̶̶̶̶̶'̶̶̶̶̶̶̶X̶D̶.̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶n̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶g̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶,̶̶̶̶̶̶̶b̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶,̶̶̶̶̶̶̶c̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶f̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶h̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶.̶̶̶̶̶̶̶


----------



## 1clearhead

yaku22 said:


> Ok i just got my kz ate black. I got to say the bass is somewhat bloated my ear,holys! To me the detail is somewhat laidback?lol this is due to some software altered of my device.later i set it to no altering watsoever, so its sound ok.u shape?.somehow i think that the soundstage itself created the bloated bass.remind me of hd681f,its like im in middle sit.i find hd681 red ring best suited me.man i love edm.basically all tomorrowland performer are in my collection.also dont take my thought as such as discouraging you to get any kz iem.anyway ill burnin them now.
> p̶/̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶h̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶l̶̶̶̶̶̶̶l̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶y̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶h̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶.̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶S̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶n̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶'̶̶̶̶̶̶̶g̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶!̶̶̶̶̶̶̶'̶̶̶̶̶̶̶X̶D̶.̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶n̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶g̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶,̶̶̶̶̶̶̶b̶̶̶̶̶̶̶a̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶,̶̶̶̶̶̶̶c̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶m̶̶̶̶̶̶̶f̶̶̶̶̶̶̶o̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶t̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶i̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶s̶̶̶̶̶̶̶u̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶d̶̶̶̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶h̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶r̶̶̶̶̶̶̶e̶̶̶̶̶̶̶.̶̶̶̶̶̶̶


 

 Try "tip-rolling"......if you have ear-tips to swap with. It does make a difference.


----------



## robvagyok

OK, could not figure out what's the difference between the ED3 S3 and the ED3 Youth Edition?
  
 Looking at pictures on Ali the only thing I can see is that the S3 is grey with a black back saying "The Acme" while the ED3 Youth are eighter blue or red with black back saying "The Acme"
  
 All the other ED3's do have grey "perfection" on their back.
  
 So besides the obvious colour difference, is there a real difference between the ED3 S3 and the ED3 Youth in sound?
 The only seller I can see selling the grey ED3 is this LINK


----------



## Tob8i

Has anyone tried te KZ whirlwind tips on the ATE or HDS1? They look quite interesting.


----------



## DaveLT

robvagyok said:


> OK, could not figure out what's the difference between the ED3 S3 and the ED3 Youth Edition?
> 
> Looking at pictures on Ali the only thing I can see is that the S3 is grey with a black back saying "The Acme" while the ED3 Youth are eighter blue or red with black back saying "The Acme"
> 
> ...


 
 The "gray ED3" is not a normal ED3. The S3 is gray or silver with "the acme" and blue wire or black wire. ED3  Youth has the see through rubber wire.
 Btw, now even the S3 has light blue or red as well.
  
 The ED3 Perfection has a silver curved cover on the back. So that's the difference.
  


tob8i said:


> Has anyone tried te KZ whirlwind tips on the ATE or HDS1? They look quite interesting.


 
 The whirlwinds are great but you can't use them on the ATE, no matter what tip I used the ATE hurts my inner canal and it goes right through anyway. Large size sennheiser IE double flange works better on them.
  
 On the HDS1 it will be so loose it's unimaginable.


----------



## CoiL

davelt said:


> tob8i said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone tried te KZ whirlwind tips on the ATE or HDS1? They look quite interesting.
> ...


 
 It`s subjective and personal. I personally find KZ whirlwinds very good for ATE. I have small ear-canals and like deep insertion though.
 Tried few double and triple flanges but no good results. Once again - tips are very subjective and personal issue and should be discussed firstly by factors like persons ear-canal shape/size, insertion depth and wearing preferences
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


b9scrambler said:


> Bass:
> 
> ED3 Youth > ED9 (G) > HDS1 > ED9 (B) ATE > ED3
> 
> ...


 

 Great post! And I personally agree with You @ ED9 being "too splashy and sloppy". Though, with little filter mod and brass nozzle they sound very good. Note - my source gears are neutral sounding with slight hint of "warmth" (great mids presentation) and I`m quite sensitive to highs.


----------



## CADCAM

carltonh said:


> I just got the ATE-S in the mail today and it also has those weights. they aren't heavy or a problem.
> 
> I also got the ZN1 mini. It is too early for me to give an opinion on either's sound...but if you want an IEM for quick in and out to go back and forth between music and being social, neither are ideal. But both are comfortable if you want to leave them on for a good while.


 
 Yea I bought the ATE-S and ZS1 and they both didn't work out for me fit wise. Found out I'm not a fan of over the ear design and memory wire was also something I didn't like...gave the ATE-S to my son and the ZS1 sits in the iem draw.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Nope ... no Monk ....infact *have not bought anything since last year* ...muahahahahahaha
> 
> But very interested in FXH30 ..seeing that we sort of knda have similar take on KZ except ED9 ......just messing with you bro
> 
> Take your time on the impression ....in no hurry ....btw keep on ramblings ...me likey


 
  
 You're doing much better than me, haha. I already have 4 new pairs of iems on the way, mind you I only spend 26 CAD so I call that a win  If you buy anything this year, definitely consider the Monk. It really is deserving of all the hype.
  
 My ED9 impressions are in the minority. Oh well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


coil said:


> Great post! And I personally agree with You @ ED9 being "too splashy and sloppy". Though, with little filter mod and brass nozzle they sound very good. Note - my source gears are neutral sounding with slight hint of "warmth" (great mids presentation) and I`m quite sensitive to highs.


 
  
 Pretty sure got a pair when they first came out right? I'm wondering if the early models were improved upon in that regard. My brass nozzled ED9 was filter modded (my old "Blue Mod" is posted somewhere in this thread...) which helped a lot, but I removed the foam for some reason and lost it. Haven't really used them much since. My sources are the Topping NX1 which should be well-known by now, and the HTC One M8 which is fairly neutral with a touch of warmth.


----------



## rolarocka-two

Love my new KZ ATE, I used the Xiaomi Piston 3 for a few months before and thought they were very very good but the KZ ATE blows them away after a few seconds of listening . And the design is amazing, everybody looks what the heck is he using there to listen music... 

A0001 - oneplus one


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## carltonh

eisenbricher said:


> Interesting. My ZN1 mini will be here soon, waiting for it.
> 
> Which one among XB90EX and ZN1 sounds better to you? I had XB90 in past so can relate with it.


 

 After 15 hours burn in, the ZN1 mini sounds amazingly similar. But I do not use or own amps to try, and many XB90 owners say that is where the XB90 really shines most. With just my Lenovo laptop and Galaxy Note 3,the ZN1 Mini just has a hair more subbass and midbass, with impact, mids and treble quite similar. I think the XB90 bass quantity is more my preference. Compared to the Sony AS800AP, the Sony has a hair more high end treble that adds clarity without seeming like a V-shape to me.
  
 However, the XB90 is completely comfortable, despite its size, for hours at a time. The ZN1 Mini seems like it will be too, but teh ZN1 is not a quick put on and pull off. Without the plastic over the ear guides, I think the ZN1 Mini would be extremely difficult to comfortably stay over the ear if you lose the removable plastic over ear guiders that come with it. But that's a concern because they could easily get lost. Note that I prefer the weighted memory wire of the ATE-S far more than the removable guides of the ZN1 Mini.
  
 However, somewhere I have a much higher quality JLab over-ear guides that stay on tight, even if thrown in a bag or pocket for travel or storage. I'll have to find those, and recommend people who get the ZN1 Mini (and like it and want to keep it) to also find an after-market better over-ear guide.


----------



## B9Scrambler

carltonh said:


> After 15 hours burn in, the ZN1 mini sounds amazingly similar. But I do not use or own amps to try, and many XB90 owners say that is where the XB90 really shines most. With just my Lenovo laptop and Galaxy Note 3,the ZN1 Mini just has a hair more subbass and midbass, with impact, mids and treble quite similar. I think the XB90 bass quantity is more my preference. Compared to the Sony AS800AP, the Sony has a hair more high end treble that adds clarity without seeming like a V-shape to me.
> 
> However, the XB90 is completely comfortable, despite its size, for hours at a time. The ZN1 Mini seems like it will be too, but teh ZN1 is not a quick put on and pull off. Without the plastic over the ear guides, I think the ZN1 Mini would be extremely difficult to comfortably stay over the ear if you lose the removable plastic over ear guiders that come with it. But that's a concern because they could easily get lost. Note that I prefer the weighted memory wire of the ATE-S far more than the removable guides of the ZN1 Mini.
> 
> However, somewhere I have a much higher quality JLab over-ear guides that stay on tight, even if thrown in a bag or pocket for travel or storage. I'll have to find those, and recommend people who get the ZN1 Mini (and like it and want to keep it) to also find an after-market better over-ear guide.




ZN1 Mini now on order. Love the AS800AP and ZS1, so these sound they will be right up my alley. Thanks for the great impressions


----------



## chompchomps

Just got my package last night from taobao! just look at how robust that wrapping is. 
  
 the S3 and HDS1 was in it! Based on @DaveLT 's description that should be the S3 right? 
  
 First impressions are not bad. HDS1's sound very spacious, clear and balanced? Not very bassy at all. 
 Does burning in actually change the sound much?


----------



## DaveLT

It is the S3. The cable is the difference.


----------



## carltonh

b9scrambler said:


> ZN1 Mini now on order. Love the AS800AP and ZS1, so these sound they will be right up my alley. Thanks for the great impressions


 
 Though I haven't heard the ZS1, I'm glad I went with the ZN1 Mini, because, if as someone described the ZS1 as even more bass than the ZN1 Mini, then the ZS1 would just be too much for my mostly prog rock and metal music collection.
  
 Thumbs down on the ATE-S so far for lack of subbass. It's all midrange centric without extension on either side of the sound spectrum, as others described. (But not bad if that's what you want.)


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Great post! And I personally agree with You @ ED9 being "too splashy and sloppy". Though, with little filter mod and brass nozzle they sound very good. Note - my source gears are neutral sounding with slight hint of "warmth" (great mids presentation) and I`m quite sensitive to highs.
> ...


 
 First 2 I got early and 2 or 3 others lot later, end of 2015. They had little difference in build (circle driver cover under enclosure mesh was black on later ones). To me they sounded quite same
 and "difference" could have been placebo or due to "burn-in" and playtime. Nevertheless they all had slight "splashy and sloppy" highs in certain FR point. But it all is hard to say because one gay in my country local forum had 3 pairs and 2 sounded slightly different from the one. So, this all could be production QC issue and probably some members here may have "perfect" version of ED9. But nevertheless, filter-modded ED9 still sounds great.
  
 Now, back to the newer IEM`s - are ED3 and HDS1 very different from eachother? And which one would suit me better if I like ATE (2nd version black)?


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I think all in all we are pretty close with the opinions on the different models...except my ED9's. I must have gotten 2 superior builds


 
 You are not the only one as I have 3 silver pair and a black pair on order. I had to hit the grocery store on the way home from racquetball last night and whipped out the trusty travel ED9's and they just kill it for me, I don't want to even take them off when I get back to the car they draw me in so much but heavy fines if caught driving in phones here! For me the ED9 has just the right amount of everything, lots of good KZ's but for me none have the overall balance of the ED9 but as always YMMV


----------



## noef

chompchomps said:


> Just got my package last night from taobao! just look at how robust that wrapping is.
> 
> the S3 and HDS1 was in it! Based on @DaveLT 's description that should be the S3 right?
> 
> ...


 
 Can you compare them OOTB?


----------



## DaveLT

noef said:


> Can you compare them OOTB?


 
 I have both the HDS1 and the S3.
 The S3 is so much better it's not even funny. I only paid 6$ for the S3 and waited next to no time whereas I paid 10.5$ for the HDS1 and waited > 1 month. It sucked. Right now I'm tight for time so I'll just say the S3 is far more balanced


----------



## Enuma-elis

davelt said:


> I have both the HDS1 and the S3.
> The S3 is so much better it's not even funny. I only paid 6$ for the S3 and waited next to no time whereas I paid 10.5$ for the HDS1 and waited > 1 month. It sucked. Right now I'm tight for time so I'll just say the S3 is far more balanced


 
 Man, that sucks, I've ordered HDS1 just about an hour ago . Btw, I've ordered here http://www.banggood.com/KZ-HDS1-In-ear-HIFI-Micro-Moving-Coil-Metal-Music-Earphone-Headphone-p-1009175.html . I  had some bg points, so basically I've spend only about $6,50.


----------



## Pulpfiction

Hey guys. Have been following this thread for the last 200 pages or so, but first post here . I decided to order some ATE's as from the description they seemed my cup of tea. I'm Dutch but have been living in Brazil for 2 years. Anything imported from abroad (like Sennheisers for instance) are taxed insanely here (and still often fake items), and my girl usually buys IEM buds that retail here for 4$ which she haggles down to 1 to 2$. If there is still margin at that price, AFTER importation, you can only imagine the quality level . Poor everything with zero bass (very anemic sound) and with regular use the buds break within days to max a month (have broken multiple buds in the first day of using them). She told me she doesn't hear any difference with different buds, but then she never took the time or money to buy something a bit better.
  
 I gave her two ATE's (one backup in case the first breaks) and kept one for myself. I like the KZ foamies included but gave mine to her as a spare - I prefer to use silicone tips so I don't have to replace them later and I can wash them if needed. I ordered a range of tips from AE at the same time as the buds. The included silicones (medium) were too small for one of my ears so I am using Sennheiser style biflange tips from AE: Medium in my left ear and small in the right (sealed too tight with medium size on my right ear which gave me a lot of driver flex). The ATE nozzles slide all the way through the silicone tips, so the mesh grill ends up exactly in the tip opening. I'm using a Galaxy S3 and S4 as a source with plain (128 - 256kb) mp3's for now, and the sound is lightyears beyond what I got with the crap buds. From memory (not very reliable ofc) these ATE's IEMS sound a lot better than cheaper Sennheiser IEM's I used 3 years back and the few Sony earbuds before those (can't remember model names).
  
 Exactly what has been said before: very suprised at the bang for buck these provide! I paid 8$ a pop, I like how there is quite some sub bass, midbass seems ok (could be a bit more punchy still for my taste) but I especially like how the lower frequencies don't seem to muddle up the rest. I do notice a lack in the higher frequencies though, listening to some Bluetech and Daft Punk (songs I know well) the high misses a bit of shine. Still, really nice and enjoyable sound.... 8$?? I like the foamies, the packaging, the cable (no microphonics, they *are* tangle prone though.... Still need to try that talcum powder trick, I think it was Twin that suggested it? )
  
 I have an Xduoo X2 and a 75 ohm Dunu impedance adapter on the way and am changing my library to FLAC now, also some Monk's on the way & silicone covers for them + I just pulled the trigger on the ZN1 mini .. Been about 10 years since I had a dedicated DAP (Cowon Iaudio 4 - 256mb lol ) - seriously excited. Times are tight over here which is why I had to keep it very budget, and for now I didn't order an S3 yet.. Too many KZ's out there that spart my curiosity !! (S3, HDS1, ED9, ED4, etc.. )
  
 Can't wait to check how the ATE & ZN1 mini will sound on the Xduoo X2 playing FLAC!


----------



## CADCAM

enuma-elis said:


> Man, that sucks, I've ordered HDS1 just about an hour ago . Btw, I've ordered here http://www.banggood.com/KZ-HDS1-In-ear-HIFI-Micro-Moving-Coil-Metal-Music-Earphone-Headphone-p-1009175.html . I  had some bg points, so basically I've spend only about $6,50.


 
  
 The HDS1 is one of my favorite KZ's. Wait until it comes in and evaluate it on your own system with your own music. Do not take these broad stroke comments as anything but another members opinion... because that's all they are.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> The HDS1 is one of my favorite KZ's. Wait until it comes in and evaluate it on your own system with your own music. Do not take these broad stroke comments as anything but another members opinion... because that's all they are.




Couldn't agree with this more. Had I listened to others instead of making my own decisions I would have missed out on some of my favorite KZs; ANV and Micro Ring.

Besides, the HDS1 is a quality iem regardless of how you look at them. Even if other KZs are 'better' the HDS1 is worth what you paid, and then some.


----------



## anticute

pulpfiction said:


> Hey guys. Have been following this thread for the last 200 pages or so, but first post here . I decided to order some ATE's as from the description they seemed my cup of tea. I'm Dutch but have been living in Brazil for 2 years. Anything imported from abroad (like Sennheisers for instance) are taxed insanely here (and still often fake items), and my girl usually buys IEM buds that retail here for 4$ which she haggles down to 1 to 2$. If there is still margin at that price, AFTER importation, you can only imagine the quality level . Poor everything with zero bass (very anemic sound) and with regular use the buds break within days to max a month (have broken multiple buds in the first day of using them). She told me she doesn't hear any difference with different buds, but then she never took the time or money to buy something a bit better.
> 
> I gave her two ATE's (one backup in case the first breaks) and kept one for myself. I like the KZ foamies included but gave mine to her as a spare - I prefer to use silicone tips so I don't have to replace them later and I can wash them if needed. I ordered a range of tips from AE at the same time as the buds. The included silicones (medium) were too small for one of my ears so I am using Sennheiser style biflange tips from AE: Medium in my left ear and small in the right (sealed too tight with medium size on my right ear which gave me a lot of driver flex). The ATE nozzles slide all the way through the silicone tips, so the mesh grill ends up exactly in the tip opening. I'm using a Galaxy S3 and S4 as a source with plain (128 - 256kb) mp3's for now, and the sound is lightyears beyond what I got with the crap buds. From memory (not very reliable ofc) these ATE's IEMS sound a lot better than cheaper Sennheiser IEM's I used 3 years back and the few Sony earbuds before those (can't remember model names).
> 
> ...


 
 Where did you order the Monk? I've been trying to get it off of aliexpress for a while now, but it seems like the only one that's ever available is the $500 "out of stock" option 
  
 Off topic: I'm going back to Brazil in May


----------



## raybone0566

b9scrambler said:


> Couldn't agree with this more. Had I listened to others instead of making my own decisions I would have missed out on some of my favorite KZs; ANV and Micro Ring.
> 
> Besides, the HDS1 is a quality iem regardless of how you look at them. Even if other KZs are 'better' the HDS1 is worth what you paid, and then some.


I almost gave up on them, because I couldn't get the right fit. Finally when I got some spiral dots it was like a totally different beast.


----------



## mebaali

cadcam said:


> The HDS1 is one of my favorite KZ's. Wait until it comes in and evaluate it on your own system with your own music. Do not take these broad stroke comments as anything but another members opinion... because that's all they are.


 
 Couldn't agree more with your statement. To my ears/audio setup, (among the KZs) HDS1 provides a very enjoyable listening session with variety of genres.


----------



## petnnd

Just search KZ earphones and find KZ LP3. Does anyone try this KZ Headphone? *KZ LP3?*
http://www.banggood.com/KZ-LP3-Universal-Head-mounted-HIFI-Heavy-Bass-Headset-Earphone-With-Mic-p-992761.html?p=TO0114854833201411XQ
  
 I'm curious about this one


----------



## robvagyok

mebaali said:


> Couldn't agree more with your statement. To my ears/audio setup, (among the KZs) HDS1 provides a very enjoyable listening session with variety of genres.


 
 +1 from me, HDS1 is the best KZ out there. (just ordered the S3)


----------



## DaveLT

robvagyok said:


> +1 from me, HDS1 is the best KZ out there. (just ordered the S3)


 
 If you haven't tried the S3. I'm sorry but me and @cr0wnest agrees that the HDS1 is slightly muffled, has rolled off highs and that's enough to make me feel disappointment because I had the S3 before the HDS1


----------



## Ruben123

I wouldnt call them rolled off , rather neutral and not harsh.


----------



## CoiL

davelt said:


> robvagyok said:
> 
> 
> > +1 from me, HDS1 is the best KZ out there. (just ordered the S3)
> ...


 
 Different strokes for different folks
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Doesn`t make ones (or some ppl) opinion superior or more "correct" than other. Many things to consider - source gear, hearing audiogram and difference, fit/tip preference/difference, music, taste, sound perception, recording/file quality etc. etc. Just let it be and don`t always oppose to every different opinion - it might only create arguing, flaming and even thread closing (like we have seen from past in this thread)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!


----------



## DaveLT

ruben123 said:


> I wouldnt call them rolled off , rather neutral and not harsh.


 
 Neutral is S3. It is rolled off not neutral.


----------



## CoiL

DaveLT, please stop arguing about personal subjective opinions. Telling once Your opinion and not agreeing is enough. We got already Your opinion - some agree, some not - just let it be.


coil said:


> Different strokes for different folks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 1clearhead

Just received the *KZ-S4*. .....All I have to say is wow! Definitely the "S" versions on the KZ's are my type of signature! These things are crystal clear and slams really deep in sub-bass. I definitely have to compare these with the S3's this weekend.


----------



## carltonh

1clearhead said:


> Just received the *KZ-S4*. .....All I have to say is wow! Definitely the "S" versions on the KZ's are my type of signature! These things are crystal clear and slams really deep in sub-bass. I definitely have to compare these with the S3's this weekend.


 

 Just ordered it (as the KZ Z1) on Aliexpress. All sellers on Aliexpress are calling it the Z1, with no hits for S4. Does the packaging say which is the proper name?


----------



## Charliemotta

1clearhead said:


> Just received the *KZ-S4*. .....All I have to say is wow! Definitely the "S" versions on the KZ's are my type of signature! These things are crystal clear and slams really deep in sub-bass. I definitely have to compare these with the S3's this weekend.


 
 I can't find anything for KZ S4.  Closest hit was KZ ED4.


----------



## pwoznic

What's a recommended KZ (or other?)  IEM for deep bass with hard rock/metal? I am looking for something with great bass but still lots of clarity, but also that I can wear under a winter hat comfortably without squishing too much into my head. LOL
  
 I have some k3003 clones that I love for hard rock/metal, but I cannot wear them with a hat or earmuffs. I remember reading about some KZ's that might fit the bill a few months ago (they were not cheap, around $80 USD), but I cannot remember the model.


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> DaveLT, please stop arguing about personal subjective opinions. Telling once Your opinion and not agreeing is enough. We got already Your opinion - some agree, some not - just let it be.


 

 LOL, by the email I received on this thread it appears there has been a little clean up on aisle 9
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In the infamous words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sorry, this is the KZ thread so........................






 
 pwoznic, this is just my opinion but as you will always read ED9's are my favorite and I'm a classic rock kind of guy


----------



## carltonh

pwoznic said:


> What's a recommended KZ (or other?)  IEM for deep bass with hard rock/metal? I am looking for something with great bass but still lots of clarity, but also that I can wear under a winter hat comfortably without squishing too much into my head. LOL
> 
> I have some k3003 clones that I love for hard rock/metal, but I cannot wear them with a hat or earmuffs. I remember reading about some KZ's that might fit the bill a few months ago (they were not cheap, around $80 USD), but I cannot remember the model.


 

 I only have 3 KZs so far, but I bought ones targetted for metal and prog rock.  Top pick of mine is the "ZN1 Mini". (The one you heard about at $80 must have been the original ZN1.) The ZN1 Mini sounds awesome even if a bit bass centric. The dual drivers really let that bass not interfere with great mids and treble. But the over-ear design is not a quick and easy on and off. Second choice and also excellent is the ED10 (but some people hate it). I EQ up 500Hz to 1200 Hz a bit and makes in very refined. Mids a bit recessed in male vocals otherwise. Don't get the ATE-S.


----------



## carltonh

pwoznic said:


> What's a recommended KZ (or other?)  IEM for deep bass with hard rock/metal? I am looking for something with great bass but still lots of clarity, but also that I can wear under a winter hat comfortably without squishing too much into my head. LOL
> 
> I have some k3003 clones that I love for hard rock/metal, but I cannot wear them with a hat or earmuffs. I remember reading about some KZ's that might fit the bill a few months ago (they were not cheap, around $80 USD), but I cannot remember the model.


 

 And what k3003 clones do you have and love for metal?


----------



## 1clearhead

About *KZ S3* or *KZ Z1*
  
 Sorry guys, I really don't know.
  
 But according to the feedback with the KZ Z1 on Aliexpress and reading the feedbacks here in China for the KZ S4 on taobao, I think they are one and the same IEM.
  
 Here is where I got mine from on taobao.
  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.12.kt9HJ0&scm=1007.10009.21136.100200300000001&id=526080912664&pvid=9f098e5e-cf01-43b8-87d7-02b10fc591fb


----------



## Podster

carltonh said:


> I only have 3 KZs so far, but I bought ones targetted for metal and prog rock.  Top pick of mine is the "ZN1 Mini". (The one you heard about at $80 must have been the original ZN1.) The ZN1 Mini sounds awesome even if a bit bass centric. The dual drivers really let that bass not interfere with great mids and treble. But the over-ear design is not a quick and easy on and off. Second choice and also excellent is the ED10 (but some people hate it). I EQ up 500Hz to 1200 Hz a bit and makes in very refined. Mids a bit recessed in male vocals otherwise. Don't get the ATE-S.


 

 Good call on the ZN1 Mini for Prog and Metal because that bass is very EQ'able


----------



## rmatech

Best kz for bass with clarity for hiphop, but also r&b and soul?


----------



## rmatech

I have heard ZS1 have the best bass with clarity, is this true?


----------



## B9Scrambler

rmatech said:


> I have heard ZS1 have the best bass with clarity, is this true?




I say yes, but others will disagree, haha. Love my bass monster ZS1


----------



## CoiL

carltonh said:


> Don't get the ATE-S.


 
 ATE-S is really so different from ATE (silver 1st version) and ATE (translucent black 2nd version) ? Guess I gotta stay away from ATE-S (3rd newest version) due to some "negative" feedback I`ve noticed about them. Though, You never know without trying Yourself.
  
 My main music involves a lot of progressive rock/metal/alternative (check my profile) and I find 2nd version ATE very good for those "styles" and long listening sessions.


----------



## carltonh

coil said:


> ATE-S is really so different from ATE (silver 1st version) and ATE (translucent black 2nd version) ? Guess I gotta stay away from ATE-S (3rd newest version) due to some "negative" feedback I`ve noticed about them. Though, You never know without trying Yourself.
> 
> My main music involves a lot of progressive rock/metal/alternative (check my profile) and I find 2nd version ATE very good for those "styles" and long listening sessions.


 

 I guess I should point out that I don't find the sound of the ATE-S to be bad. Better than my other midrange+midbass centric Brainwavz Beta V2. But I find the fit to be problematic, with multiple types of tips I tried. I could adjust them for great sound, but they don't stay at that very precise spot and angle for great sound. So for me, they could squeeze a dozen drivers in each one and equal the $2000 CIEMs for $10, and I'd spend my whole listening time trying to get the right fit and angle and being annoyed. The memory wire part wasn't even the real problem, it was just the earpiece itself was not a good fit for my ear.
  
 But for those whom they fit fine, lucky you, enjoy them.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I say yes, but others will disagree, haha. Love my bass monster ZS1


 

 I agree with B9 on this but I also have the ZN1 Mini coming to see if they tweaked the ZS any
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus I'm not a big memory wire fan!


----------



## CADCAM

carltonh said:


> I guess I should point out that I don't find the sound of the ATE-S to be bad. Better than my other midrange+midbass centric Brainwavz Beta V2. But I find the fit to be problematic, with multiple types of tips I tried. I could adjust them for great sound, but they don't stay at that very precise spot and angle for great sound. So for me, they could squeeze a dozen drivers in each one and equal the $2000 CIEMs for $10, and I'd spend my whole listening time trying to get the right fit and angle and being annoyed. The memory wire part wasn't even the real problem, it was just the earpiece itself was not a good fit for my ear.
> 
> But for those whom they fit fine, luck you, enjoy them.


 
 100% agreed I liked the sound of the ATE-S when I could get them seated and sealed properly but I spent most of my time adjusting and re-adjusting them so I gave up and gave them to my son. I still like my original ATE in black.


----------



## kiler

Hello guys, I made a quick video of the KZ-ATE, compared a bit with the Philips SHE3590 that we all know ^^ I also have some more reviews on that channel (some in portuguese, some in english). Feedback is appreciated.


----------



## rmatech

b9scrambler said:


> I say yes, but others will disagree, haha. Love my bass monster ZS1


 

 Thanks buying them now!


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> I agree with B9 on this but I also have the ZN1 Mini coming to see if they tweaked the ZS any:wink_face: Plus I'm not a big memory wire fan!




I can't wait to compare the ZS1 the Mini, especially if the Mini sounds like the NarMoo S1. The memory wire is a pain no doubt, but I've got the "hook and twist" insertion technique down pat. Crisis averted!


----------



## carltonh

b9scrambler said:


> I can't wait to compare the ZS1 the Mini, especially if the Mini sounds like the NarMoo S1. The memory wire is a pain no doubt, but I've got the "hook and twist" insertion technique down pat. Crisis averted!


 

 I've just discovered with the right tips, (tight fitting ones) the ZN1 mini can work cable down, as long as you aren't moving about much, they stay in place well. Definitely don't headbang and expect them to stay in.


----------



## branman22

Hello, 
  
 I recently purchased the KZ ATE 2nd editon with transparent black housing, KZ ED10, and KZ ZS1. I purchased them for about $9-12. Has anyone had any experience with fake KZ products, and does anyone know if these are faked at all? I will post the URL's of each site that I bought these from. I have been trying to read about fake KZ products and couldn't find much on the subject. 
  
 Links:
 KZ ATE - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32350895239.html
 KZ ED10 - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-Brand-New-Original-KZ-ED10-3-5mm-In-Ear-Headset-Heavy-Bass-HIFI-DJ-Earphones/32373336369.html
 KZ ZS1 - http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_273867.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> B9.... Happy New Year
> 
> Could you give Masta Wokei some comparison impression of FXH30 with ED9 and Havi ?
> 
> Cheers ....


 
 I have not forgotten....it's just that this process has ended up being more fun than I was expecting


----------



## B9Scrambler

carltonh said:


> I've just discovered with the right tips, (tight fitting ones) the ZN1 mini can work cable down, as long as you aren't moving about much, they stay in place well. Definitely don't headbang and expect them to stay in.


 
 Sweet! Knowing they can be worn down will be helpful at work. Definitely can't do that with the ZS1, lol. I can't headbang without making myself dizzy, so that's not going to be an issue


----------



## carltonh

I don't recognize this KZ. Anyone else? KS-ES? It says "The acme" on the side, but it isn't the same as the ED3 that says that.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ES-copper-forging-professional-grade-fever-and-heavy-bass-music-WIRE-call-ear-headphones-earphones/2051890757.html


----------



## ayao

carltonh said:


> I don't recognize this KZ. Anyone else? KS-ES? It says "The acme" on the side, but it isn't the same as the ED3 that says that.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ES-copper-forging-professional-grade-fever-and-heavy-bass-music-WIRE-call-ear-headphones-earphones/2051890757.html


 
 The ES is a pretty old model, and the sound signature is quite similar to the EDSE with a slight variation in the lower treble IIRC. I preferred the EDSE's overall balance over the ES, but the ES is very well built, almost up there with the ED8.


----------



## wastan

pwoznic said:


> What's a recommended KZ (or other?)  IEM for deep bass with hard rock/metal? I am looking for something with great bass but still lots of clarity, but also that I can wear under a winter hat comfortably without squishing too much into my head. LOL
> 
> I have some k3003 clones that I love for hard rock/metal, but I cannot wear them with a hat or earmuffs. I remember reading about some KZ's that might fit the bill a few months ago (they were not cheap, around $80 USD), but I cannot remember the model.


 

 It's not a KZ, but read up on the Rock Zircon.


----------



## bhazard

I still need to try my ZN1 mini and compare it to the original.


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> I have not forgotten....it's just that this process has ended up being more fun than I was expecting


 
  
 It's all good B......too many new KZ model and very confusing model name with rehash model ...LOL


----------



## cr0wnest

1clearhead said:


> Just received the *KZ-S4*. .....All I have to say is wow! Definitely the "S" versions on the KZ's are my type of signature! These things are crystal clear and slams really deep in sub-bass. I definitely have to compare these with the S3's this weekend.




That was fast! Let us know how it compares to the S3. God knows when I'll receive mine.


----------



## branman22

I really believe that I may have purchased a fake KZ ZS1 from Gearbest.com. It was dumb of me to have purchased from the site anyhow, after reading all the poor reviews of the site. I noticed that the front of the box that the ZS1 from Gearbest.com comes in is missing some of the print that the box of the ZS1 that was reviewed on this site has. If you compare the box of the ZS1 that is on Gearbest.com to the box that is shown in one of the reviews on this site, you will see what I'm talking about. Just wanted to inform everyone and get opinions on the matter. 
  
 Thanks,
 Brandon


----------



## CoiL

kiler said:


> Hello guys, I made a quick video of the KZ-ATE, compared a bit with the Philips SHE3590 that we all know ^^ I also have some more reviews on that channel (some in portuguese, some in english). Feedback is appreciated.


 
 If You do more listening - get rid of foam tips - they "muffle" sound and reduce clarity/details. Don`t know Your ear-canal shape and size but try small silicones and deep insertion.


----------



## kiler

coil said:


> If You do more listening - get rid of foam tips - they "muffle" sound and reduce clarity/details. Don`t know Your ear-canal shape and size but try small silicones and deep insertion.


 
 Will do, I already tried the larger silicones and I only felt a bit more brighter sound. I will report back with results. Besides the stock tips, any other silicone tips you recommend?


----------



## jmwreck

I've just received my ed11, to me it sounds like or better than my ed9, it looks good too.


----------



## Podster

jmwreck said:


> I've just received my ed11, to me it sounds like or better than my ed9, it looks good too.


 

 Sacrilege I tell you
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 jk mwreck
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We all like what we like, my ED11's sound nice but when inserted into my ears they just are too thick and hurt my ears, sound is great but fitment (at least for me) not so much


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> It's all good B.....*.too many new KZ model and very confusing model name with rehash model* ...LOL


 
  
 Agreed. One new KZ a month was manageable, but it's getting kinda nuts. On the plus side, pretty much all of the new ones are good and worth the cash (minus the HDS2...bleh), so it's a win win for all. KZ gets lots of feedback and can quickly develop new and/or improved models, and we get our moneys worth with pretty much every purchase. Works for me!


----------



## B9Scrambler

jmwreck said:


> I've just received my ed11, to me it sounds like or better than my ed9, it looks good too.


 
  
 I feel the same way about the ED10, though their treble seems to have gotten a little loose over time. Might just be my tip choice if I've learned anything from my recent time spent with the ED9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## omgflyingbanana

http://i.imgur.com/iLj0u4F.jpg (can't add images :C)
  
 So damn bummed right now, cord of my KZ-ATE's was chipped so I tried fixing it but ended up ruining it permanently. I'm broke right now and this just rubs salt in the wound. ****.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I feel the same way about the ED10, though their treble seems to have gotten a little loose over time. Might just be my tip choice if I've learned anything from my recent time spent with the ED9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Stop wasting your time with all the others I know which KZ you like B9


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Stop wasting your time with all the others I know which KZ you like B9




Hahaha....you're right! I love the ZS1....and ANV, Micro Ring, ED10, ED3 (both of em), ED4, etc., etc. Pretty much all of them


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Hahaha....you're right! I love the ZS1....and ANV, Micro Ring, ED10, ED3 (both of em), ED4, etc., etc. Pretty much all of them


 

 You keep this up and your going to de-thrown the original KZ Fan-Boy Gif Master Wokei Esquire


----------



## Chaoscillator

omgflyingbanana said:


> http://i.imgur.com/iLj0u4F.jpg (can't add images :C)
> 
> So damn bummed right now, cord of my KZ-ATE's was chipped so I tried fixing it but ended up ruining it permanently. I'm broke right now and this just rubs salt in the wound. ****.


 
 Saw your post on r/headphones. A moment of silence for the fallen comrade. Perhaps you can try a different pair?


----------



## Wokei

podster said:


> You keep this up and your going to de-thrown the original KZ Fan-Boy Gif Master Wokei Esquire


 
  
 Kind words ...Lord Podster
  
 BTW ......what sound sig is this ZS1 and any pic for this model ? Thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edited - too many models and have not been following much ....LOL


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Kind words ...Lord Podster
> 
> BTW ......what sound sig is this ZS1 and any pic for this model ? Thanks in advance
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can help ya there buddy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Reviews from yours truly and @HiFiChris
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


> Kind words ...Lord Podster
> 
> BTW ......what sound sig is this ZS1 and any pic for this model ? Thanks in advance :wink_face:
> 
> Edited - too many models and have not been following much ....LOL




You are telling me and trying to see how many they can put an "S" on Well like the link B9 gave you they are bass dominant but can be tamed with tips, EQ and some stout power. Like many a good home speaker they will return outstanding output with a clean and powerful power source 

i also don't thunk even Sir Scramblers great shots do them justice. Once again JMO but I love the look of both the Zn1 
And ZS1. This stuff is fun


----------



## Wokei

Quote:


podster said:


> You are telling me and trying to see how many they can put an "S" on Well like the link B9 gave you they are bass dominant but can be tamed with tips, EQ and some stout power. Like many a good home speaker they will return outstanding output with a clean and powerful power source
> 
> i also don't thunk even Sir Scramblers great shots do them justice. Once again JMO but I love the look of both the Zn1
> And ZS1. This stuff is fun


 
  
 Thanks P ! ....from the reviews .....the sound sig might be wee bit heavy for me ...Lord Bass ....muahahahahaaaa
  
 Still looking for the one to top the ED9 or EDSE or even the ED3 ( the OG ...muahahaaa )
  
 Here are some shots of ED3


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Read both review .....thanks B and @HiFiChris
> 
> But gotta say ...you killin' me with "Lord Bass" title !


 
  
 Can thank @DaveLT for the 'Lord Bass' title.  
  


wokei said:


> Thanks P ! ....from the reviews .....the sound sig might be wee bit heavy for me ...Lord Bass ....muahahahahaaaa
> 
> Still looking for the one to top the ED9 or EDSE or even the ED3 ( the OG ...muahahaaa )
> 
> Here are some shots of ED3


 
  
 They are seriously bass heavy, but as @Podster said the beast can be tamed. 
  
 Nice shots of the ED3. Still a worthy KZ in my opinion. It's a pretty unique signature compared to their most recent offerings.
  
 Not to spoil my upcoming review of the ED4, but _I very much like them_, though I would definitely have skipped the inline mic had I been given the choice.


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


> Thanks P ! ....from the reviews .....the sound sig might be wee bit heavy for me ...Lord Bass ....muahahahahaaaa
> 
> Still looking for the one to top the ED9 or EDSE or even the ED3 ( the OG ...muahahaaa )
> 
> Here are some shots of ED3




Ooh you got the original ED3 Perfections, different than most other KZ especially the "ACME". But as B9 said they are still a nice $10 iem Is that one of your first KZ?


----------



## carltonh

I


b9scrambler said:


> Not to spoil my upcoming review of the ED4, but _I very much like them_, though I would definitely have skipped the inline mic had I been given the choice.


 
  
 I ended up ordering the ED4 as well because I could get the one with microphone for $6.61, even though I already ordered the (S4 or Z1, name confusion not resolved) for $7.61 and HDS3 for $6.99, all with mic, my preference. Not to mention a Rock Zircon on order and a YINJW Wooden V2. Of course, at those prices, some are on the slow boat slower than Epacket delivery.


----------



## sgl54

b9scrambler said:


> Can thank @DaveLT
> for the 'Lord Bass' title.
> 
> 
> ...



Tamed ? Chair and whip I should think! Actually surprisingly robust for $10 or $11. The Ed3 " perfection" is or was a surprisingly different sound for Kz it would be interesting to hear who or what music they designed it for, it's a different formula.


----------



## Wokei

podster said:


> Ooh you got the original ED3 Perfections, different than most other KZ especially the "ACME". But as B9 said they are still a nice $10 iem Is that one of your first KZ?


 
  
 History lesson ..first KZ mentioned iirc is KZ A1 ....which me still have ....KZ built quality ROCKS !
  

 KZ A1
  
 Here are some of the OG's
  

  KZ CKW1000
  

 KZ ED1
  

 KZ LPS --gold plated mod
  
  

  


  
 KZ LP2 - also gold plated mod - not foldable
  

 KZ Micro Ring 
  

  
 KZ R3 - detachable cable
  

  
 KZ GR - swappable filter like ED9 
  
 Enjoy the pics


----------



## twister6

Here is my brief review with lots of detailed pics of KZ ZN1, ZS1, HDS1, and ED3c IEMs.  Big Thanks to @Horton and KZ for providing review samples in exchange for my honest opinion.
  
 It has been awhile since my last review of ED9, ED10, and ATE, two budget IEMs from KZ which I still hold in high regard.  One admirable thing about Knowledge Zenith (KZ), they never sit still and continuously push the envelope of budget pricing and new cool designs.  That’s what you are going to find with their new HDS1 and ED3c additions to IEM catalog.  But at the same time, they stepped outside of their typical $10 comfort zone with two new offerings, ZN1 and ZS1.  Let’s take a closer look at what I have found.
  
*ZN1*
  
 Referred to as Smart Headset, ZN1 has a dual dynamic driver (8mm for bass/mids and 6.8mm for treble) with two independent sound chambers combined at the nozzle and a smart control unit with dual TI amplifiers.  The control/amp unit requires to be charged (through micro-usb connector), with a battery lasting up to 10hrs, and it has an independent digital volume control +/- buttons, bass adjustment +/- buttons, and treble adjustment +/- buttons.  While being adjusted, these parameters are displayed with corresponding values on a small high contrast OLED display.  Furthermore, you also have a multifunction button to pick up and to answer the calls, and a separate Power button.
  
 The control unit is a bit bulky and adds some weight to the cable while serving as “y-splitter”.  Also, the cable from the control unit to 3.5mm gold plated angled connector is thick, and L/R cables going to earpieces are also on a thicker side.  Earpieces are big enough to house two dynamic drivers, have a plastic housing, and a durable build that can withstand some abuse.  They have a clear L/R marking, multi-venting for expanded open sound, and a short strain relief which is not a problem due to a thickness of the cable/shielding attached to earpieces.
  
 In terms of a fitment, earpieces themselves are very comfortable and fit secure with a wire over the ear.  But the added weight of control/amp unit and thick cable is not very comfortable to walk around with.  Another thing, I was able to pair it up without a problem with my smartphones and tablets, but to work with DAPs you need TRRS to TRS adapter.  With a smartphone it works in a powered and a passive modes, while with DAPs it only works in a powered mode and with an adapter.  In my opinion ZN1 strength is NOT in a portable use, but rather to use with your smartphone or tablet for a portable entertainment, such as watching movies, videos, and playing games.
  
 ZN1 gives you a full theatrical experience of an open/surround amplified detailed sound where you can adjust the depth and the impact of the bass and increase or reduce the definition and sparkle of the treble.  Sure, you can also listen and enjoy your music while you are relaxing in the chair or on a couch, but walking around – I wouldn’t recommend.  And if you run out of battery, you can still enjoy the sound in a passive mode, though without volume/bass/treble adjustment.  In summary, I found it to be not as useful with my DAPs, but very useful with my Smartphone and Tablet.
  
_Pictures._
  
 
 
 
 
  
_Display._
  
 
 
  
_Fitment._
  

  
  
*ZS1*
  
 While testing ZN1, I was happy how it paired up with my smartphone, but wasn’t able to enjoy it to a full potential with my DAPs.  It was a bit frustrating to the point where I was ready to “convert” ZN1 into a passive wired IEMs, but I'm glad that I didn’t.  I’m sure KZ received a lot of feedback from their users, and decided to answer with ZS1 version which is basically a passive wired ZN1 without control/amp unit.
  
 Just like ZN1, ZS1 features a dual 8mm and 6.8mm dynamic drivers with a nearly identical plastic shell and open vents, and the same L/R clear marking.  Cable is thinner, closer to a more traditional KZ wires with their typical 90deg headphone plug, rubbery shielding, small y-splitter with a nice strain relief on each end, and in-line remote/mic going to the right earpiece for smartphone control.  Everything was good until you get closer to earpieces where you have a rather long and stiff memory wire.  I guess KZ decided not to use memory wire with ZN1 because wires stayed put behind your ears under the weight of control/amp unit, while not the same case with ZS1 – but they made it too long and stiff.  Again, this is not a show stopper that going to affect a comfort of wearing ZS1, but I would have preferred a shorter memory wire and without a plastic termination bead at the end.  Every time I take them off for storage and put them back on, I have to go through re-shaping of the memory wire which becomes a bit annoying.
  
 With a design and a fitment out of the way, the next stop was a sound test.  I was pleased to see that ZS1 had no issues working with any of my DAPs in addition to smartphone and tablet, but as soon as I start playing the music, my ears got blasted with a serious BASS cannons!!!  I have no idea why KZ decided to tune ZS1 to a basshead extreme.  We are talking about L-shaped sound signature with an overwhelming bass slam.  Low end is deep and extended, from a thick thumping sub-bass to a boomy elevated mid-bass - both dominating the sound.  But surprisingly, even with such massive impact, there was still room for a quality mids, though pushed all the way back in quantity.  Lower mids have a full smooth body and upper mids have a nice clarity with smooth details.  Even treble has a nice definition, though not as much airiness or brightness.  Also, soundstage was pretty good, though with more depth than width.
  
 Not wanting to give up, I started to tweak EQ and discovered that ZS1 has A LOT of potentials and can be transformed into a decent pair of headphones when you cut 6dB around 30Hz and 3dB around 60Hz.  As soon as you trim that low end thumping and booming, you make a room for mids and treble to come up, resulting in a more balanced and smooth detailed sound.  This EQ cut easily transforms ZS1 into a solid pair of great sounding headphones with a more ear-friendly tuning and a balanced organic detailed sound.  Typically, I’m not a fan of using EQ, but sometime I can make an exception and SZ1 was it.  But moving forward, I wish KZ would retune their sound signature to cut down on bass and to shorten the memory wire.
  
_Pictures._
  
 
 
 
 
 

  
_Fitment._
  

  
  
*HDS1*
  
 With HDS1, KZ went back to their traditional “formula” of small lightweight single dynamic driver design (this one has a small 6mm driver).  It was nice to see all these bright fresh colors, instead of a traditional black or silver, and the build quality was solid metal.  The shells have a clear L/R marking, short but sturdy strain relief, typical KZ thin cable with a rubbery/sticky shielding.  Y-splitter was nice and small, but surprisingly it didn’t have any strain relief at the ends which I prefer to have.  The headphones connector was their traditional right-angle gold-plated plug.  The fitment worked both ways, wired up and wire down.
  
 There was also in-line remote w/mic on the right side of the cable, but it was very cheap and plastic.  I wish they would have used a sturdier metal capsule because if you crack this in-line remote – you expose the wire connection (speaking from a personal experience of another headphone pair that went straight to garbage).  I also sensed some cable microphonics.  Last, but not least, sound isolation is poor due to 3 large vents on the back of the shell – great for an open airy sound, but not good if you’re looking for a passive noise isolation. 
  
 When it comes to a sound analysis, HDS1 offers a nicely tuned mid-centric signature with a focus on mids clarity and resolution - great for vocals!  A found very little sub-bass, nearly rolled off, and mid-bass had a neutral fast tight punch.  Lower mids are lean, missing warmth of full body, while upper mids are the focus of the tuning - clear and detailed, and at the same time not a hint of harshness or graininess.  Treble is extended, bright, crisp, well defined and not sibilant at all.  The sound is mid-centric and airy, but at the same time missing some organic warmth and natural body.  Instead, you will get a detailed resolving vocals, neutral quality low end, nice treble sparkle, and overall non-fatigue extended listening experience.  Soundstage has a great width, an average depth, and slightly below average height.
  
_Pictures._
  
 
 
 

  
_Fitment._
  
 
  
  
*ED3c*
  
 ED3c is another step closer to a traditional KZ design and sound, and also under $10.  Here you will find a solid build quality, all metal lightweight shell in different bright colors (looking like the color was baked in), and a nice strain relief around the shell.  KZ decided to do something more original by using handwriting font to spell the Left/Right which looks classy, but also hard to read, so I was using in-line remote on the Right side as my indicator since shells are symmetrical.  The cable has typical KZ multi-color wires with rubbery shielding, small rubbery y-slitter with strain relief on each end, and a traditional 90-degree gold plated headphone connector.  Microphonics was just average, and sound isolation was not bad at all if you use the correct size eartip and considering a small pinhole air-vent next to the cable attached to the shell.
  
 I found ED3c to have L-shaped signature with a nice low end extension and a strong bass impact.  Sub-bass has a nice heft, adding an underlying weight to support fast mid-bass punch.  Bass itself is not very articulate or super tight, but has an Ok control and strong impact which tilts the sound toward the low end.  Lower mids are warm and full but not muddy, upper mids are clear smooth but not very detailed.  Actually, mids sound a bit artificial, especially vocals.  Treble is clear, a little rolled off, smooth and non-sibilant.  Though I hear overall sound to be more L-shaped than V-shaped due to a treble roll-off, I still wouldn't consider these to be basshead headphones.  Soundstage was also nice with slightly above the average width/depth/height.
  
_Pictures._
  
 
 
 
 
  
_Fitment._


----------



## HiFiChris

wokei said:


> History lesson [...]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 At first, I thought you were joking and put a V-Moda headphone into the pictures, but then I saw the Knowledge Zenith lettering. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Personally, I find obviously copying designs like that quite cheeky.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@twister6 Great coverage of those KZs man! My personal favorite of the bunch (out of those I own) is the ZS1. I don't think they're the best, but without a doubt get the most entertainment from them.
  
@Wokei Nice to see some of the classic KZs getting some love. Might have to join in and post some pics.


----------



## twister6

b9scrambler said:


> @twister6 Great coverage of those KZs man! My personal favorite of the bunch (out of those I own) is the ZS1. I don't think they're the best, but without a doubt get the most entertainment from them.
> 
> @Wokei Nice to see some of the classic KZs getting some love. Might have to join in and post some pics.


 
  
 Thanks bro!  I'm glad I posted this write up 'cause I finally found where Eric (@Wokei) is hiding!!!


----------



## Wokei

B9Scrambler...Yeah...pics would be nice

twister6..Just making cameo appearance... Lol... Retired from audio world... You know what I mean.. Muahahaha


----------



## carltonh

Anyone compare the ED8s vs. ED8m? I haven't considered either closely because the shape looks like it might be painful in the ears.


----------



## carltonh

I will take back most of my negative statements about extreme difficulty in getting a good fit on the ATE-S. I discovered I was putting the tips onto the stem too far. Don't do that, keep them on the edge. It is much easier, though still not perfectly easy, to get a good fit. And with a good fit, I would have recently said they were the first of my 3 KZ earphones to sound best without EQ adjustment. However, I broke my multi-year rule with the ZN1 mini. I only use extra-large tips for every IEM, but with the mini, I switched to medium size to get a more balanced sound, and no longer need to EQ down the bass.


----------



## m4dbra1n

Hi guys, I'm writing here to ask some advices on a new pair of iem that I'd like to buy after I have my Piston 3 to my brother  
I've came across those KZ iems while I was browsing my usual Chinese ecommerce sites. Then I've found and read some of the hundred pages of this thread XD 
Now I cannot decide between some of the most recommended one: Ate, ZN1, ZN1 mini. 

I listen mostly to rock, electronic, some hiphop and soul too. 

For those who have/had the Piston 3, in comparison to my old SHE9800, I really liked how they sounded, but I think they lacked some bass. 

Thanks for those who will help me  

Inviato dal mio MI 3W utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## mccririck

Which would you recommend for a balanced sound? I like rock, acoustic, classical, technical death metal. Not interested to having the bass too prominent. I like a detailed sound.


----------



## Ruben123

mccririck said:


> Which would you recommend for a balanced sound? I like rock, acoustic, classical, technical death metal. Not interested to having the bass too prominent. I like a detailed sound.


 
 ED9 and HDS1 are the best known, but ED3 S3 may be good also. Dont own the ED3 so cant help you too precisely.


----------



## carltonh

mccririck said:


> Which would you recommend for a balanced sound? I like rock, acoustic, classical, technical death metal. Not interested to having the bass too prominent. I like a detailed sound.



I like the same extreme of styles, but I only have 3 KZs, so I cannot confidently claim to know which is best. When my next three arrive, I should at least have enough for a good opinion.


----------



## mccririck

Where do you guys recommend buying them from? AliExpress?


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Wokei Here's your comparo! 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/795159/random-shootout-havi-b3-pro-1-vs-jvc-ha-fxh30-vs-kz-ed9


----------



## Wokei

b9scrambler said:


> @Wokei Here's your comparo!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/795159/random-shootout-havi-b3-pro-1-vs-jvc-ha-fxh30-vs-kz-ed9


 
  
 Thanks mate ..excellent effort and really enjoy it


----------



## EISENbricher

mccririck said:


> Where do you guys recommend buying them from? AliExpress?


 
 Yup, they can be purchased from Amazon as well. 
  
 Here is the link of KZ's official store on Ali : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
  


mccririck said:


> Which would you recommend for a balanced sound? I like rock, acoustic, classical, technical death metal. Not interested to having the bass too prominent. I like a detailed sound.


 
 I'd recommend HDS1. It has nicely balanced sound and rock, classical sound great on it. Get ED9 as well because it offers great versatility with 2 different filters and also is fairly balanced. 
  
 For acoustic and DM  ATE is superb, imo because the timbre is better among KZs. It's slightly bass north though.


----------



## cr0wnest

mccririck said:


> Which would you recommend for a balanced sound? I like rock, acoustic, classical, technical death metal. Not interested to having the bass too prominent. I like a detailed sound.




The ED3 Youth and S3 are by far the most balanced sounding ones I've tried. Both are similar but with a little more refinements in the S3 with clearer mids and highs.


----------



## 1clearhead

cr0wnest said:


> That was fast! Let us know how it compares to the S3. God knows when I'll receive mine.


 
  
 So, I finally got to burn the *KZ-S4* for at least 40 hours, or more, and I got to say they are one step up on the S3! Even though, I still consider the S3 some of the best well spent IEM's on a budget, the S4 just takes it up a notch!
  
 Here are the comparison's.....
  
*S3:*  Fast deep bass, followed by full-rich vocals, great soundstage and crisp highs
  
*S4:*  Deep fine bass; especially sub-bass, livelier vocals, clashes, and symbols (when compared to the S3), and better instrument separation and soundstage overall.
  
 Conclusion: They are both great IEM's and can be a toss-up; some may prefer the S3 over the S4, or vice-versa! It's all about preference. But, they are some of the best money can buy in its' price range. These are some of the finer IEM's I've ever got to purchase from KZ. The KZ* "S" *versions are just slightly at another level.
  
  
 Ps: .....these might be, *or might not be* the KZ-Z1's being sold in the US, or other countries. I don't have enough information to verify.


----------



## cr0wnest

1clearhead said:


> So, I finally got to burn the *KZ-S4* for at least 40 hours, or more, and I got to say they are one step up on the S3! Even though, I still consider the S3 some of the best well spent IEM's on a budget, the S4 just takes it up a knotch!
> 
> Here are the comparison's.....
> 
> ...




Damnit clearhead, you just raised my expectations. 
That improved sub bass has got my attention, is the whole EQ still more or less still balanced like the S3?

Also I have a feeling maybe they just renamed it the Z1 for the american market? Based on the unit you got, do they look exactly the same as the Z1 listing on Aliexpress? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z1-New-100-Original-Headphones-In-ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-Stereo-Headphones-Super-Bass-Noise/32585088681.html


----------



## 1clearhead

cr0wnest said:


> Damnit clearhead, you just raised my expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 True.....the sub-bass surprised the heck out of me as well. But, believe it, or not, it is as balanced as the S3's! Because of it's lower sub-bass range digging deeper (but not louder), and the livelier and more open midrange and soundstage, it maintains a nice presence and balance as a whole. Finally, the S4's are just a bit more efficient....by 2 DB's louder at most.


----------



## tusharthegamer

i got ed9 set from the store but  i need something better than ed9 from KZ series. Can you guys recommend a better earphone than ed9?


----------



## sgl54

I'd recommend HDS1. It has nicely balanced sound and rock, classical sound great on it. Get ED9 as well because it offers great versatility with 2 different filters and also is fairly balanced. 

For acoustic and DM  ATE is superb, imo because the timbre is better among KZs. It's slightly bass north though.
[/quote]
I agree with the choice of either the HDS1 and ED9 . Just as EI ( sorry about initials I find I always mispell when I type it out ) points out they are nicely blanced. While of the two my preference goes to to venerable ( for Kz ) ED9 . But the HDS1 was as surprising to me as the EDRSE balanced, light small. The ATE is one I use a lot ou and about,. Primarily as there so comfortable and stay put, but I do find the upper regions veiled.


----------



## noef

Id like to buy the s4, is this a good seller? http://tinyurl.com/zzhokb9
 they are priced at just $6.92


----------



## 1clearhead

noef said:


> Id like to buy the s4, is this a good seller? http://tinyurl.com/zzhokb9
> they are priced at just $6.92


 
  
 Try chatting with the seller first before purchasing the Z1's by reassuring that these are the same as the S4's.
  
 This is the same thing that happen with the S3's!.....they finally went on the global market weeks later after being sold in China weeks before, and WAS NOT suppose to be the "Youth Version" or the first "Original versions".
  
 So, maybe try chatting first before purchasing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....Ask if these are the S4's being sold on taobao in China.


----------



## mccririck

cr0wnest said:


> The ED3 Youth and S3 are by far the most balanced sounding ones I've tried. Both are similar but with a little more refinements in the S3 with clearer mids and highs.


 
  
 Why can I not find the S3 in the aliexpress KZ store?


----------



## cr0wnest

mccririck said:


> Why can I not find the S3 in the aliexpress KZ store?




For some reason most sellers on aliexpress don't bring it in. You can find one here though.
http://s.aliexpress.com/f6BJ7b2Y

Then there's also th S4/Z1 (Because right now we're still unsure if they are the same thing, though they look identical.) which 1clearhead mentioned were very good as well. Perhaps you wanna give it a try? 
http://s.aliexpress.com/7BFZfyMZ


----------



## fallrsk

1clearhead said:


> So, I finally got to burn the *KZ-S4* for at least 40 hours, or more, and I got to say they are one step up on the S3! Even though, I still consider the S3 some of the best well spent IEM's on a budget, the S4 just takes it up a notch!
> 
> Here are the comparison's.....
> 
> ...




Damn, well good thing I'm a huge fan of the original ED4. S4 is next!


----------



## Mustache

My edr1's have arrived, and comparing those with my "standart" ED3, in build quality, it is a kind of a downgrade. The "new" model of 3,5mm jack looks cheaper, is lighter and looks more fragile than the ED3 one. The biggest difference is on the earpieces itself, on the EDR1's they seem to be plastic and much lighter than the ED3, which looked like solid metal and felt much heavier. 
 As in the matter of sound, i quite enjoyed them, they seem to be focused on detailed highs, nothing special on the mids, and the bass is kinda flat, and sometimes, depending on the music, it annoys me a little.
 The ED3 had a "darker" sound for what i can remember, but i'm no audio expert, and my experiences are quite limited.
 Now i'm going to wait for the S3, hope they can at least have a equal/superior build quality to the original ED3's, that would be a plus already.


----------



## Chaoscillator

1clearhead said:


> So, I finally got to burn the *KZ-S4* for at least 40 hours, or more, and I got to say they are one step up on the S3! Even though, I still consider the S3 some of the best well spent IEM's on a budget, the S4 just takes it up a notch!
> 
> Here are the comparison's.....
> 
> ...


 
 Just when I thought I didn't need any more IEMs.. I need the KZ S4.


----------



## vsls

It's been a week since I've received the HDS1
OOTB I was pretty disappointed by the harsh and hollow sound. When I paired them 1 day later with warm-ish Fiio E10 then I could hear their true beauty. They seem quite balanced for my tastes (mainly Rock) I like the build quality, I don't hate but I dislike the cable. The size is excellent. Although they seem somehow hard to drive since I have to crank the volume for them, I've used different sources without amp so far, I couldn't expect that from a microdriver tbh.

Now I've seen that there are many mid-centric suggestions here, KZ-S3, KZ-S4 and KZ ZN1 mini, I think I would like ZN1 but memory wire is almost a no-go for me. Should I wait for the S series? Is it an upgrade to HDS1?


----------



## anticute

vsls said:


> It's been a week since I've received the HDS1
> OOTB I was pretty disappointed by the harsh and hollow sound. When I paired them 1 day later with warm-ish Fiio E10 then I could hear their true beauty. They seem quite balanced for my tastes (mainly Rock) I like the build quality, I don't hate but I dislike the cable. The size is excellent. Although they seem somehow hard to drive since I have to crank the volume for them, I've used different sources without amp so far, I couldn't expect that from a microdriver tbh.
> 
> Now I've seen that there are many mid-centric suggestions here, KZ-S3, KZ-S4 and KZ ZN1 mini, I think I would like ZN1 but memory wire is almost a no-go for me. Should I wait for the S series? Is it an upgrade to HDS1?


 

 I'm really digging the HDS1. With a good seal (DIY foam/silicone tips), they are pretty sweet. I'm going to have to A/B them with my previous KZ favorite, ED9 with semi-modded brass nozzle.


----------



## EISENbricher

Just received my KZ ZN1 Mini (Through the limited deal). ZN1 mini is supposed to be the ZN1 minus the EQBOX. It does look very similar to my ZS1,
  
 the main differences compared to ZS1 are:
 1. Beefier cable below Y splitter on ZN1
 2. Lack of memory wire above Y splitter
 3. Different filter
  
 Wow, what a hell of a rugged cable on this baby! The cable below Y splitter is the beefiest cable I've seen on an in-ear. It's feels nice and flexible though. Will comment about sound impressions later.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Just received my KZ ZN1 Mini (Through the limited deal). ZN1 mini is supposed to be the ZN1 minus the EQBOX. It does look very similar to my ZS1,
> 
> the main differences compared to ZS1 are:
> 1. Beefier cable below Y splitter on ZN1
> ...


 
  
 I am very excited to read your impressions! Love the ZS1, and am totally pumped for my ZN1 mini to arrive...whenever that will be, lol.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> I am very excited to read your impressions! Love the ZS1, and am totally pumped for my ZN1 mini to arrive...whenever that will be, lol.


 
 Initial impressions highlight that definitely the drivers are different. 
  
 1. ZS1 is lot more bassy compared to ZN1mini
 2. ZN1mini's treble is much open and clear compared to ZS1.
 3. Soundstage is about same, above average.
 4. ZN1 requires less power. Need at least 18 level on ZS1 opposed to about 12 for ZN1mini on my Xduoo X2.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Initial impressions highlight that definitely the drivers are different.
> 
> 1. ZS1 is lot more bassy compared to ZN1mini
> 2. ZN1mini's treble is much open and clear compared to ZS1.
> ...




All sounds good to me! Thanks for the impressions. Very excited to hear them.


----------



## vsls

eisenbricher said:


> Initial impressions highlight that definitely the drivers are different.
> 
> 1. ZS1 is lot more bassy compared to ZN1mini
> 2. ZN1mini's treble is much open and clear compared to ZS1.
> ...



 

That sounds great! Do you feel that ZN1 mini is more suitable for midrange music? Also is the wire above Y-split completely memory-free for over the ear use?


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Wow, what a hell of a rugged cable on this baby! The cable below Y splitter is the beefiest cable I've seen on an in-ear. It's feels nice and flexible though. Will comment about sound impressions later.


 
 Is the cable same as ED9`s brown cable? If yes, then it`s no-likey from me. Though, the beefier part of cable looks thick like my ATE-FF`s "IE800" cable, which is nice, probably separate channels straight from jack to Y splitter and to drivers.


----------



## cr0wnest

So I messaged this store asking if the Z1 and S4 are the same. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z1-New-100-Original-Headphones-In-ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-Stereo-Headphones-Super-Bass-Noise/32585088681.html
I have no idea what the hell is she up to.. :blink:


----------



## fallrsk

cr0wnest said:


> So I messaged this store asking if the Z1 and S4 are the same. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z1-New-100-Original-Headphones-In-ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-Stereo-Headphones-Super-Bass-Noise/32585088681.html
> I have no idea what the hell is she up to.. :blink:




LOL!!! Well, atleast she's cute . This may be the silliest thing I've ever seen in an interaction between buyer/seller.

Hm, a question?? Let's just send a selfie and a bunch of smilies.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Initial impressions highlight that definitely the drivers are different.
> 
> 1. ZS1 is lot more bassy compared to ZN1mini
> 2. ZN1mini's treble is much open and clear compared to ZS1.
> ...




Lol, that's awesome. I'd take that answer as a yes.

I've had ALI sellers call me cute, blow kisses, and tell me I'm handsome, so this response isn't entirely out of character oddly enough


----------



## carltonh

b9scrambler said:


> Lol, that's awesome. I'd take that answer as a yes.
> 
> I've had ALI sellers call me cute, blow kisses, and tell me I'm handsome, so this response isn't entirely out of character oddly enough


 
 And they could be men posing as women for the flirtation influenced purchases.


----------



## CADCAM

cr0wnest said:


> So I messaged this store asking if the Z1 and S4 are the same. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z1-New-100-Original-Headphones-In-ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-Stereo-Headphones-Super-Bass-Noise/32585088681.html
> I have no idea what the hell is she up to..


 
  Angelia Su
2015-08-06 19:38




```
the ANV is better !!!
```










  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 I got the same a while back from the Flagship Store! http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387 at least I got an answer though.
 Also Jade & Angelia look very much alike...
  
 Almost forgot I received another one in the same massage correspondence. No answer to question that time though...
  
  Angelia Su
2015-11-30 08:20




```
[img]http://i02.i.aliimg.com/wimg/common/single/emotions/11.gif[color=transparent][/color][/img][img]http://i02.i.aliimg.com/wimg/common/single/emotions/11.gif[color=transparent][/color][/img]
```


----------



## fallrsk

Men posing as women?! Blasphemy, I tell ye.

Also, has anyone else gotten an EDR1/HDS3? I know someone did but was comparing it to the ED3 whereas I'm hoping for an HDS1/HDS3 comparison lol.


----------



## cr0wnest

Google searching the image showed that at least one other member of the forum encountered the same thing. And it was in this thread too. http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/4755#post_11708303

Not surprised all these Aliexpress sellers are in the same league. 

So anyone gonna buy that Z1?


----------



## Enuma-elis

cr0wnest said:


> Google searching the image showed that at least one other member of the forum encountered the same thing. And it was in this thread too. http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/4755#post_11708303
> 
> Not surprised all these Aliexpress sellers are in the same league.
> 
> So anyone gonna buy that Z1?


 
 Well, and I thought it unusual, when I've recieved a poem from the Ali seller. Now, that seem like a normal compared to what others recieve. Lol.


----------



## EISENbricher

vsls said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Initial impressions highlight that definitely the drivers are different.
> ...


 
 Midrange is okay. It's doesn't shine as in ATE or ED9, music overshadow mids a bit. I won't recommend it for midrange music. It's fine for mainstream though. 
 About the second question, the cable is memory free and not so suitable for wearing behind the ear in normal way. They have provided ear guides in the package though and using those it results into nice and comfy fit. 
  


coil said:


> Is the cable same as ED9`s brown cable? If yes, then it`s no-likey from me. Though, the beefier part of cable looks thick like my ATE-FF`s "IE800" cable, which is nice, probably separate channels straight from jack to Y splitter and to drivers.


 
 Yep, it's the same ED9's brown cable. Above Y splitter it's the same, while below brown cable it's same but twice as thick.
  


b9scrambler said:


> All sounds good to me! Thanks for the impressions. Very excited to hear them.


 
 Hope you enjoy ^^
  


cr0wnest said:


> Google searching the image showed that at least one other member of the forum encountered the same thing. And it was in this thread too. http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/4755#post_11708303
> 
> Not surprised all these Aliexpress sellers are in the same league.
> 
> So anyone gonna buy that Z1?


 
 To everyone in thread : This is the official KZ store on Ali : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.10010108.0.39.pzM5aN
 There are few titled as 'Official' but this one so far is the one I know for sure. Member of the trade for KZ (@Horton) may confirm.


----------



## cr0wnest

eisenbricher said:


> To everyone in thread : This is the official KZ store on Ali : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.10010108.0.39.pzM5aN
> There are few titled as 'Official' but this one so far is the one I know for sure. Member of the trade for KZ (@Horton
> ) may confirm.




I ever bought from this store before, and they also have a listing for the Z1. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED8M-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/32256027095.html 

The EDSE I bought from them arrived unusually quick, about 9 days to Singapore, quite rare especially for Aliexpress. But the earphone was authentic and the condition was what you'd expect for a brand new item. Their prices are a few dollars more but at least you buy with a peace of mind. After those cute girl pics I think it would be better to spend a few dollars more and get it from these guys instead.


----------



## EISENbricher

Here are some snaps of KZ ZN1 Mini. Damn you KZ, keeps getting better at packaging with each release. (right click -> open in new tab for full res)


----------



## 1clearhead

One is KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store the other is KZ Earphone Wholesale Shopping Center ( Since 2002 )
  
 They are both from Shenzhen in Guangdong Province, China and both carry KZ products and when new models come out they actually carry-out the products at the same time. You can't fake that!
  
 KZ Wholesale Shopping Center carry KZ products and other branded names as well, while KZ Official Flagship Store carries only KZ products. KZ Wholesale Shopping Center opened up in Aliexpress before the Official Flagship Store ever did. They are pretty much one in the same or at least affiliated with each other. There is no denying that!
  
 Happy shopping my friends!


----------



## mccririck

cr0wnest said:


> For some reason most sellers on aliexpress don't bring it in. You can find one here though.
> http://s.aliexpress.com/f6BJ7b2Y
> 
> Then there's also th S4/Z1 (Because right now we're still unsure if they are the same thing, though they look identical.) which @1clearhead mentioned were very good as well. Perhaps you wanna give it a try?
> ...


 
  
  
 Do you know why in the picture for the S3 they have ED3 on them?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mccririck said:


> Do you know why in the picture for the S3 they have ED3 on them?


 
  
 The S3 is one of the many ED3 variants.


----------



## mccririck

I see - so it's impossible to tell if you're actually getting the S3 or not?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mccririck said:


> I see - so it's impossible to tell if you're actually getting the S3 or not?




Nope. The original comes in silver only and says Perfection on the back which is also convex (ie. somewhat raised). The Youth/c version comes in red or blue and says The Acme on the back. Finally you have the S3 which is that sexy gunmetal color, has the Hi-Fi logo on the side, and also says The Acme on the back.


----------



## mccririck

ok guys I went a bit mental and ordered four different KZs: the ED3 S3, ED9, Z1, and HDS1


----------



## B9Scrambler

@EISENbricher Great pics of the ZN1 mini  Only 3-5 more weeks till mine arrive....


----------



## vsls

> Midrange is okay. It's doesn't shine as in ATE or ED9, music overshadow mids a bit. I won't recommend it for midrange music. It's fine for mainstream though.
> About the second question, the cable is memory free and not so suitable for wearing behind the ear in normal way. They have provided ear guides in the package though and using those it results into nice and comfy fit.



 


EISENbricher Thanks for the reply! Probably they won't fit my needs and my sound sig. So nos I'm baffling between S3 and S4/Z1 that are half the price but they currently seem better.


----------



## CADCAM

eisenbricher said:


> To everyone in thread : This is the official KZ store on Ali : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.10010108.0.39.pzM5aN
> There are few titled as 'Official' but this one so far is the one I know for sure. Member of the trade for KZ (@Horton) may confirm.


 
 Is the store link I posted above the Official Store or not? http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387
 Your link says store opened 1 year...mine says since2002
 I'd like to know because I buy product from them thinking they are the Official KZ Store


----------



## aaDee

cr0wnest said:


> So I messaged this store asking if the Z1 and S4 are the same. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z1-New-100-Original-Headphones-In-ear-Earphones-Professional-HIFI-Stereo-Headphones-Super-Bass-Noise/32585088681.html
> I have no idea what the hell is she up to.. :blink:


whatever she's upto, she's cute


----------



## 1clearhead

cadcam said:


> Is the store link I posted above the Official Store or not? http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387
> Your link says store opened 1 year...mine says since2002
> I'd like to know because I buy product from them thinking they are the Official KZ Store


 
  
 Shopping at either one should be fine.
  
 One is there *wholesale shopping center*, which they carry other brands along with there's.
  
KZ Earphone Wholesale Shopping Center ( Since 2002 )
  
 The other is there *flagship store*, which they only carry there own KZ products.
  
KZ Headphone Official Flagship Store
  
  
 And, yes! They've been around for quite a while.....read below.
  
http://kzearphone.com/English/About/


----------



## EISENbricher

cadcam said:


> Is the store link I posted above the Official Store or not? http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387
> Your link says store opened 1 year...mine says since2002
> I'd like to know because I buy product from them thinking they are the Official KZ Store


 
 I can guarantee about the one that I posted. No experience of purchasing from the other one. 
 I could say it's official because some instructions that I posted to Horton through head fi about stuff I purchased from that store were promptly acted upon.


----------



## cr0wnest

I swear, all these sellers are in cahoots. Even the official KZ store is giving me the same reply as that other one.


----------



## petnnd

It looks like auto-reply messages


cr0wnest said:


> I swear, all these sellers are in cahoots. Even the official KZ store is giving me the same reply as that other one.


----------



## EISENbricher

The messages are quite funny lol... 
 Imagine receiving something like this if you are trying to return/refund defective goods xD That would be a big troll.


----------



## 1clearhead

cr0wnest said:


> I swear, all these sellers are in cahoots. Even the official KZ store is giving me the same reply as that other one.


 

 Haha! Definitely, there English is limited.
 Most, if not, all of the merchants are Chinese.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> mccririck said:
> 
> 
> > I see - so it's impossible to tell if you're actually getting the S3 or not?
> ...


 

 Can You please share link to that S3 noted out in bold text ? Which one of them is ED3*c* (The Acme) ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Can You please share link to that S3 noted out in bold text ? Which one of them is ED3*c* (The Acme) ?


 
 I'll do you one better and share links to all three 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Might help others as well. _EDIT: I just picked random sellers that were showing the correct images. I don't necessarily recommend them. Was just for demonstration purposes.*_
  
ED3 Perfection (original) (silver backplate, no Hi-Fi logo)
  




  
ED3c/Youth (black backplate)
  




  
ED3 S3 (gunmetal/grey with the black blackplate and Hi-Fi logo. Also potentially come with black, blue, or the generic KZ cable)


----------



## vsls

I think that at roughly $7 KZ Z1 seems quite appealing but has anyone confirmed if it is exactly as S4?
@1clearhead do you feel that the upgrade over the S3 worth the "risk"?


----------



## EISENbricher

More updates on KZ ZN1mini
  
 Bass : Controlled, fast and punchy. Well extended but could have little more sub bass.
 Mids : Somewhat laid back, vocals sound a bit veiled by instruments.
 Treble : Well extended, not splashy. Grants a nice airy feel to sound.
  
 Cable length : <1m (about 0.75m)
  
 Soundstage : Wide and upfront. Similar to first/second row in a concert hall.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> More updates on KZ ZN1mini
> 
> Bass : Controlled, fast and punchy. Well extended but *could have little more sub bass*.
> Mids : Somewhat laid back, vocals sound a bit veiled by instruments.
> ...


 
 Hmmm... text in bold makes me think not getting this KZ. What do You think about it vs. ATE (2nd black version).


----------



## IIRomus

viewing photos of post №9100, I noticed a difference in the thickness of the wires


----------



## Yaku22

lol i bought my atw from he/she too. got lot of weird pictures of her too, really her? lol...anyway just got my ed4,well it need some time to burn in. unfortunately for my ate, i accidentally rip it apart, at the y splitter, the left strectvh and rip as it could unnotice. im shock though the y splitter got lot of protection from such force. lol. for less than month, i can say ate had vety different sound signature than other brand. all is not a waste coz its definitely rivals 100bucks iem....also notice the similarity of kz product, you guys have to hold your horse a little. therefore i can only sure too wait for another design iem by kz for my own safety.. almost forgot. ed4 only got 2 holes back of it. wonder z1/s4/lol same design, just compare the fact..


----------



## zzhead

My HDS 3 has arrived.
  
 Hi to all,
 I received today the "new" HDS3.
 My first comments are as follows.
*Acoustics.*
 They contain the same excellent Japanese driver that HDS1 has been famous for.
 therefore the same excellent acoustic profile and leave it here.
 The cable has been improved to a less sticky opaque black which is more agreeable to the touch.
 The microphone has been moved as a single enclosure with the splitter. A new design splash. Not bad looking.



  
 And now some design flaws
 the plastic sleeve that shines nicely in the 3'5 jack is far too thick and you will need to open a bigger hole in your telephone's protective cover. Otherwise it will not go all the way in .... funny



*Also*
 There is no L,R marking. Just Red and Green Colour code.
 And here I need your input. Is red always right in Kz?
 At least in ATE's that I know of Red is the right earpiece.
 (Pls help with an easy way of making sure thx)
 Summary.
 As you have guessed my favourite KZ are the ATE's and the HDS1&3.
 But some how I tend to like more the colours of HDS1 but with the cable of the HDS3 and the mic at the splitter.
 The 3.5 jack flaw is naively .....funny.
 I think KZ should steal one of Rock Zirgon's designers. which is the pair that concludes my holy trinity of cheap earphones.
 I hope this might have been of some help.
 Thnx a lot


----------



## Pulpfiction

Just a quick song suggestion I want to share with the fellow KZ ATE owners / listeners here... I really love the ATE's sub bass and layering (I think that's what I'm trying to describe, in terms of audio description I'm still a noob).
  
 Either way, make sure you have a good seal (and source) and try this song: Bluetech - Forgiveness. It's from the 2005 album Sines and Singularities. I won't link it on Youtube because I know Youtube's audio codecs aren't very forgiving in lower resolution video (and probably still meh in full or 4k HD, for sure Vimeo is much better). I really like Bluetech btw, and most of his stuff works really well with the ATE .
  
 Anyway, hope some of you take me up on it, let me know if you enjoyed it!


----------



## AT Khan

Guys, I'm considering buying the KZ ZN1: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZN1-Headphones-Smart-Headset-Auriculares-Original-KZ-ZN1-Earphone-Noise-Cancelling-Bass-Headphone-Audifonos-Fone/32429567265.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_6,searchweb201644_3_10001_10002_10005_301_10006_10003_10004_62_9999,searchweb201560_2,searchweb1451318400_6151,searchweb1451318411_6451
  
 Please reply asap if I should or not. Is it really worth the bling?


----------



## dokkj

The ebay seller that sold the HDS1 and ED9 was "vovotrade." And I'm convinced these guys just straight up took my money. I'll be asking for a refund in the next week or so when the "second" set of KZs inevitably do not arrive at my door.
  
 I'll just grab them from alieexpress next time. What a pain in the ass. By then, I'll probably decide on whether or not I still buy the ED9s.


----------



## petnnd

Just received *ED9* and *HDS1* from banggood (total 18$, 2 weeks shipping). The first impression is the weight of HDS1 vs the ED9 - like a tiny vs a giant. LOL
 The ED9 and HDS1 sound quality seem like my ATH CKB50 except ED9 is more sub-bass;  CKB50 is solid bass, zero sub-bass.
  
  
 All of them have bright mids, the treble is not very impressive
  
  
  
 Sorry for my bad English


----------



## EISENbricher

petnnd said:


> Just received *ED9* and *HDS1* from banggood (total 18$, 2 weeks shipping). The first impression is the weight of HDS1 vs the ED9 - like a tiny vs a giant. LOL
> The ED9 and HDS1 sound quality seem like my ATH CKB50 except ED9 is more sub-bass;  CKB50 is solid bass, zero sub-bass.
> 
> 
> ...



Haha same I thought when I had ED8 and received ED9. ED8m is a giant of KZ lineup xD


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Hmmm... text in bold makes me think not getting this KZ. What do You think about it vs. ATE (2nd black version).



ATE black has more depth while ZN1mini has more width of soundstage. Both are unique in that way. Both sound equally refined and controlled. 

What I love the most about ZN1mini is that how 'Rich' it sounds despite having slightly recessed mids. Bass and treble are very nicely produced.

Also adjusting EQ a little makes it outstanding. I guess since it's designed to work in pair with EQBOX use of EQ is justified. Boost mids a little for an outstanding sound!

ATE signature is Smoot while ZN1mini has more crunch in it.


----------



## carltonh

eisenbricher said:


> Haha same I thought when I had ED8 and received ED9. ED8m is a giant of KZ lineup xD


 
  
 Have you heard both the ED8m and ED8s to compare?


----------



## EISENbricher

carltonh said:


> Have you heard both the ED8m and ED8s to compare?



Do you mean Red and Blue ED8 versions?


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm... text in bold makes me think not getting this KZ. What do You think about it vs. ATE (2nd black version).
> ...


 

 Thanks for info! I think I will exclude ZN1mini from my to-buy list because of slightly recessed mids and less frontal depth than ATE. Not that it`s bad, just doesn`t seem to fit my sound preferences. And lets not forget that I have modded ATE-FF which already has that extra "crunch" to smooth sound
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 From that point of view - should I exclude ZN1 & ZS1 too?
  


zzhead said:


> My HDS 3 has arrived.
> I received today the "new" HDS3.
> They contain the same excellent Japanese driver that HDS1 has been famous for.


 
 How do You know they have same driver?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Thanks for info! I think I will exclude ZN1mini from my to-buy list because of slightly recessed mids and less frontal depth than ATE. Not that it`s bad, just doesn`t seem to fit my sound preferences. And lets not forget that I have modded ATE-FF which already has that extra "crunch" to smooth sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ZN1mini is actually superior to ZS1 in many fronts. ZS1 has overly bassy sound which bleeds into other ranges. And highs also take back seat.
  
 Take opinion from other ZS1 users too though.


----------



## carltonh

eisenbricher said:


> Do you mean Red and Blue ED8 versions?


 
 Well, the ED8S is always shown as red and ED8M is always shown in blue in Aliexpress pages, but I'm sure I read somewhere that they are tuned differently. Is that the case?


----------



## EISENbricher

carltonh said:


> Well, the ED8S is always shown as red and ED8M is always shown in blue in Aliexpress pages, but I'm sure I read somewhere that they are tuned differently. Is that the case?


 
 For me the difference is very small and I can not tell whether it's manufacturing variation between batches, or an intended difference.
 The difference I notice is in line with others. The blue one sounds slightly deeper than the red one. That's all though. Both are very similar sounding otherwise.


----------



## Ruben123

So HDS3 is the same as the 1 but with better/different housing?
  
 What about ED3 S3 and the other  ED 3 models regarding neutral sound compared to HDS1?


----------



## iWaffle

So a friend of mine told me to give Knowledge Zenith a try (amongst other things), so I looked it up and ended up here, and then ended up ordering myself a set of ZS1's after skimming through the thread and also after auditioning a few of KZ's IEMs through a kind soul who lives near here... and I've got to say..
  
 God. Damn. Is it me or does the ZS1 possess some _really_ sick sub-bass?
  
 I'd even go as far as to say that these has _the_ _sickest_ sub-bass I've ever heard, perhaps even on par with the JVC FX1X, except a little less loose/boomy. 
  
 That being said, the sub-bass kinda stands out too much from the rest of the frequency range, so it sounds rather unnatural to my ears. Either that or the fact that I switched sides from basshead to soundstage-head about a year ago caused my ears to perceive rumbly deep bass as 'overwhelming'. 
  
 More importantly, does anyone else hear that high pitched digital static-like sound/noise on the ZS1 on some of the more trebly tracks? I think this is what people refer to as 'sparkle' in the high treble, but to my ears it sounded more like static noise/distortion rather than sparkle. I'm really hoping it goes away with burn-in though.


----------



## fallrsk

zzhead said:


> My HDS 3 has arrived.
> 
> Hi to all,
> I received today the "new" HDS3.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the impressions, I was waiting for this or I just happened to totally miss it! Luckily, I use a POS phone case so I have no worries at all lol! 
 Have you figured out the L/R situation yet


----------



## pwoznic

carltonh said:


> And what k3003 clones do you have and love for metal?


 

 Sorry for delay. I got from aliexpress.. they come with red and black screw inserts and I'm using red. Along with a FIIO E11 and my ipod, I get amazing clarity for hard rock/metal and booming bass.


----------



## zzhead

fallrsk said:


> Thanks for the impressions, I was waiting for this or I just happened to totally miss it! Luckily, I use a POS phone case so I have no worries at all lol!
> Have you figured out the L/R situation yet


 

 Hi,
 No I haven't.
 Was expecting a hand from here...
 Well, I baptized Red as Right...(It rhymes anyways)
 Ignorance is a bliss some times.
 cheers


----------



## fallrsk

Well zzhead just play L/R audio or listen to a binaural recording and you'll figure out lol! Or pan all sound to one ear.


----------



## zzhead

fallrsk said:


> Well @zzhead just play L/R audio or listen to a binaural recording and you'll figure out lol! Or pan all sound to one ear.


 

 Faaaar too complicated for 21st century.....
 I'll opt for ignorance instead... lool
 tnx stay healthy


----------



## cr0wnest

vsls said:


> I think that at roughly $7 KZ Z1 seems quite appealing but has anyone confirmed if it is exactly as S4?
> @1clearhead do you feel that the upgrade over the S3 worth the "risk"?




I just ordered the Z1 from that listing anyway (Yes, the one involving the conversation with the girl image) because I figured if it was crap I could just off load it anyway. I have the actual S4 on the way from Taobao as well so I will be able to A/B both.


----------



## EISENbricher

iwaffle said:


> So a friend of mine told me to give Knowledge Zenith a try (amongst other things), so I looked it up and ended up here, and then ended up ordering myself a set of ZS1's after skimming through the thread and also after auditioning a few of KZ's IEMs through a kind soul who lives near here... and I've got to say..
> 
> God. Damn. Is it me or does the ZS1 possess some _really_ sick sub-bass?
> 
> ...


 
 Yup it has thundering sub bass, very good earphone for the bassheads tbh. I love it while working out. 
  
 I doubt about the sparkle thing though.... ZS1's treble is actually on silent side as per my observation.
  
 What are you comparing ZS1 with?


----------



## iWaffle

eisenbricher said:


> Yup it has thundering sub bass, very good earphone for the bassheads tbh. I love it while working out.
> 
> I doubt about the sparkle thing though.... ZS1's treble is actually on silent side as per my observation.
> 
> What are you comparing ZS1 with?


 
 Not harping on you or anything, but I hate it when people plaster terms like 'basshead' onto iems like these, as if bass was the only thing the ZS1 was good at. I mostly grabbed this for how well its bass blends with the treble and the soundstage, and also how spacious the soundstage was compared to other KZ iems. 
  
 As you can (or can't) tell, my priority nowadays is soundstage, followed by sub-bass. 
  
 That aside, I wasn't comparing the zs1's treble with anything in particular; I simply found the excess airiness/sparkle in the higher treble a little disconcerting to my ears, because it made a lot of tracks I listen to generate this droning static-like noise at the very extreme upper ends of the frequency spectrum, somewhere around 16.5~18khz.


----------



## angelgrin

hi guys,
  where can i find a complete list of KZ iems?


----------



## kaiteck

angelgrin said:


> hi guys,
> where can i find a complete list of KZ iems?


 
 In this thread.


----------



## 1clearhead

vsls said:


> I think that at roughly $7 KZ Z1 seems quite appealing but has anyone confirmed if it is exactly as S4?
> @1clearhead do you feel that the upgrade over the S3 worth the "risk"?


 

 If the store merchant can confirm that these are the same S4 version, than yes! .....While the S3 brings a quick bass punch with very nice details on top, the S4 brings beautifully layered sub-bass and brilliant male/female vocals with an ambient feel to there soundstage. They are both worth having!


----------



## EISENbricher

iwaffle said:


> Not harping on you or anything, but I hate it when people plaster terms like 'basshead' onto iems like these, as if bass was the only thing the ZS1 was good at. I mostly grabbed this for how well its bass blends with the treble and the soundstage, and also how spacious the soundstage was compared to other KZ iems.
> 
> As you can (or can't) tell, my priority nowadays is soundstage, followed by sub-bass.
> 
> That aside, I wasn't comparing the zs1's treble with anything in particular; I simply found the excess airiness/sparkle in the higher treble a little disconcerting to my ears, because it made a lot of tracks I listen to generate this droning static-like noise at the very extreme upper ends of the frequency spectrum, somewhere around 16.5~18khz.


 
  
 Dear friend, I've been part of head-fi for some time and I hold every member here on high regard that he/she is here to seek better listening experience and already is aware of hi-fi audio. Given that the mainstream terms don't hold same general meanings on Head-Fi. 
  
 Basshead... on Head-Fi I call basshead to someone who enjoys bass spectrum the most and craves for fluid, non-bleeding and fast bass. I feel sad that you are interpreting this term as someone madly pumping subwoofers and denying all rest of the spectrum. 
  
 ZS1 is definitely a good earphone for the price, no doubt about that. As per my experience it has enhanced low end and that's what I had been telling you. And if you compare if with some KZs like ATE, ED8 which also have enhanced low end, the ZS1 fells short compared to them in mids and highs. 
  
 That's why I did ask what are you comparing ZS1 with. Because our perception is mostly comparative rather than in absolute.


----------



## EISENbricher

angelgrin said:


> hi guys,
> where can i find a complete list of KZ iems?


 
 For now I don't really know a specific location on head-fi. I'd try to contact with Bhazard to update the first page of this thread with list of all KZ releases. 
  
 Since KZ's later models have improved build, sound quality over the past models (arguably) it'd be better to venture into latest crop of KZ offerings. Those you can find here in their official store : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/1358152.html


----------



## vsls

1clearhead said:


> If the store merchant can confirm that these are the same S4 version, than yes! .....While the S3 brings a quick bass punch with very nice details on top, the S4 brings beautifully layered sub-bass and brilliant male/female vocals with an ambient feel to there soundstage. They are both worth having!



 


Thanks again! I think that in the end I will get'em both! I feel that S4 is almost the exact sound sig I'm looking for and probably for $7 I will take the risk to discover it myself too.


----------



## Yaku22

im in love wih ed4,thought thst is onoy temporary xD as far as i go, ed4 is neutral, which sets from the negative sq. the way true neutral oeam were made. Theres too much 'balance' comments on his thread lol, though it didnt relate to how every person define and find the perfection of balance' which diesnt make much sense. what you hear is just how it sounds much more'balance' to a person. shortly, i find ATE and ED4 is neutral. though both are different in the bass performance. its u shape. bass much forward by ate resulting some fatigue take simetime get used to it, though its hurt my ear lol. ate has bodyshape. very different sound signature. its is sporty. good gor outdoor based on experience. still find it need amp. lol not gonna brought ext amp everywhere i go, that not stylish whatsoever. that why they make zn1 XD.. As for ed4, all is flat resulted by any high end o3m iem made,. sq negative and that is why its neutral. sure it did make sense to me as i studied bout it. though they resulted in weird way as not as oem doea have some range to the ear, u shape would sound down as f### to some. lol, sure now every one want to c4ush their ear balls with ed3 (cough) clones(clones).. sadly i tear apart my ate accidentally. cost about more than 20 bucks in my country exchange rate.


----------



## Pulpfiction

I find ATE far from neutral personally. Sub bass & mids are accented (sub bass most in my ear) midbass *slightly* weak (specially next to the sub bass) and treble sounds pretty rolled off to me. I really like it though  - works great with some of my musical preferences (which are diverse and eclectic) : sweet IEM for hiphop & rap, psychedelic trance, electronic dub etc. If the midbass was a bit more present & punchy/fast they'd be close to perfect for these genres imho. Also really enjoy their layering, I found their soundstage pretty nice too. While not neutral I think they have an enjoyable, relaxing & coherent sound signature.


----------



## noef

Just received the HDS1. Absolutely amazing.
  
 Im ready for the S3 and the S4


----------



## iWaffle

eisenbricher said:


> Dear friend, I've been part of head-fi for some time and I hold every member here on high regard that he/she is here to seek better listening experience and already is aware of hi-fi audio. *Given that the mainstream terms don't hold same general meanings on Head-Fi. *
> 
> Basshead... on Head-Fi I call basshead to someone who enjoys bass spectrum the most and craves for fluid, non-bleeding and fast bass. I feel sad that you are interpreting this term as someone madly pumping subwoofers and denying all rest of the spectrum.
> 
> ...


 

 I apologize if I offended you in any way - like I said I wasn't trying to harp on you or anything regarding these mainstream audio terms, but even head-fi isn't impervious to the use (and misuse) of 'mainstream terms'. Yes, people like you and me _do _understand what these terms really mean, but even then, outsiders (your colleagues at work, your friends and family, etc) will not - I'm speaking for them and not myself when I say that I 'hate it when these terms are used'. For example, I tend use the term 'sub-bass' when I mean sub-bass, not just 'bass'. _Specificity _is the issue at hand here; without it outsiders tend to misunderstand when they google up Knowledge Zenith and land themselves here.
  
 Moving on, yes I definitely agree that the ZS1 (or generally all KZ iems for that matter) are ridiculously good value for money, especially when you consider that those seeking a good soundstage + sub-bass combo like me tend to stumble upon IEMs with 3 digit price tags more often than a single digit price tag.
  
 I remember trying the ATE, ATE-S, ED3 Perfection, EDSE, ED10, ED11 and among all of these I only liked two of them, which is the ZS1 and the ED3 Perfection. I liked the ED3 Perfection for its very balanced (but still somehow fun) sound signature, with smooth non-offensive treble.
  
 I don't remember anything notable coming from the ATE and ATE-S other than the soundstage.. I think I faintly remember wanting more bass and sub-bass with it before I'd ever buy it.
  
 As for the ZS1's upper treble issue, if you really want me to specify something to compare with, I'd point you to my profile, as generally everything I listed there doesn't have this issue, especially the JVC and Beyerdynamic line of products. Honestly this is the first time I'm hearing this kind of noise coming from an IEM, which is interesting to say the least since I really like the ZS1, enough to dismiss it as a minor, forgivable issue.
  
 Also, I don't think older people can actually hear it though, because it's around the same frequency as the high pitched whine that old televisions emit when turned on, which is also around the frequency of the 'mosquito ringtone' that became famous a few years back.
  
 Edit: I almost forgot, I read that you tried the ZN1 and ZS1 before. They both look the same! I'd really appreciate if you could elaborate a bit on the differences between the two from your own perspective.


----------



## IIRomus

studying pictures of office №9100, I noticed that my KZ ZS1 are much thinner wire in the middle of the headset body.


----------



## nolife1123

Could anyone recommend me a model from the KZ line? Going to be used for metal/rock, don't really like thumping/deafening bass and prefer clarity of instrumentals, good vocals on them over bass, a decent soundstage and separation is plus too (balance of it all would be extremely good).They'll be used with a Ruizu X02!
 Heard the KZ ED3 is good (people call them ED3 S3, don't know if that's the same thing), my choice is between the models found here: http://www.gearbest.com/kz-_gear/ - the ones up to ~$12. Also, would anyone know what they're like when compared with the Xiaomi Piston 3's (I've got them already) in term of SQ?
 Thanks!


----------



## Ruben123

nolife1123 said:


> Could anyone recommend me a model from the KZ line? Going to be used for metal/rock, don't really like thumping/deafening bass and prefer clarity of instrumentals, good vocals on them over bass, a decent soundstage and separation is plus too (balance of it all would be extremely good).They'll be used with a Ruizu X02!
> Heard the KZ ED3 is good (people call them ED3 S3, don't know if that's the same thing), my choice is between the models found here: http://www.gearbest.com/kz-_gear/ - the ones up to ~$12. Also, would anyone know what they're like when compared with the Xiaomi Piston 3's (I've got them already) in term of SQ?
> Thanks!




The ruizu has some roll off on both sides (less than neutral treble and bass) so I'd choose a bit warm sounding earphone with a touch too much treble. I have the hds1 and it is just perfect . ed9 with a bass cut is just anemic.


----------



## EISENbricher

iwaffle said:


> I apologize if I offended you in any way - like I said I wasn't trying to harp on you or anything regarding these mainstream audio terms, but even head-fi isn't impervious to the use (and misuse) of 'mainstream terms'. Yes, people like you and me _do _understand what these terms really mean, but even then, outsiders (your colleagues at work, your friends and family, etc) will not - I'm speaking for them and not myself when I say that I 'hate it when these terms are used'. For example, I tend use the term 'sub-bass' when I mean sub-bass, not just 'bass'. _Specificity _is the issue at hand here; without it outsiders tend to misunderstand when they google up Knowledge Zenith and land themselves here.
> 
> Moving on, yes I definitely agree that the ZS1 (or generally all KZ iems for that matter) are ridiculously good value for money, especially when you consider that those seeking a good soundstage + sub-bass combo like me tend to stumble upon IEMs with 3 digit price tags more often than a single digit price tag.
> 
> ...


 
 I understand, let's keep the misunderstanding behind. Too easy to get tangled into these on forums like head-fi, that's for sure. 
  
 Haha... I've also tried all those and fun thing is that I liked the inverse. ATE, EDSE, ED10, ED11 have been my most favs at times and my main drivers. ED3 and ZS1's signatures aren't my cup of tea.
  
 Yup, personal preference is a huge thing perhaps most of the times kept neglected while debating. If you loved ED3 P and ZS1, I'm glad that you found something of liking from KZ stable. That's the main point why KZ keeps releasing so many different earphones with varying sound signature. So varied that even some of the very well known international brands have less variety to offer. Lot of people PM me or ask me for a KZ preference and after knowing their preferences, I can always recommend something. Yep, I didn't like ED3P for myself but got one knowing my sister's preference and she absolutely loves it.
  
 Hmm about ATE.. I love that one. It sounds very refined, has one of the best layering in KZ camp and the treble is smooth, non sibilant. I can't ask for more. My only issues were the sheer size of ATE and durability of the cable-earpiece joint. 
  
 The noise issue puzzles me. I can't guess what is behind it but try to shake the earphone to check if there is rattle in somewhere. Also do check the ports, there is no filter installed on outer hole of ZS1 and dust/dirt can easily go inside the hole. Was the noise uniform from both sides, btw? 
  
 What's your age? I'm 25 and I don't hear those mosquito frequencies anymore. While in college I could hear those. 
  
 Yep, I've already elaborated ZS1/ZN1mini differences behind 2-3 pages. But in brief 
  
  

 ZS1ZN1miniSignatureL shapedV shapedSoundstageAbove average, has more depthBig, has more widthSensitivityLowAbove averageCableATE/EDSE like cable, average lengthED9 like cable, twice as thick below Y, below average lengthMemory wireYesNo (Ear guide provided)


----------



## EISENbricher

iiromus said:


> studying pictures of office №9100, I noticed that my KZ ZS1 are much thinner wire in the middle of the headset body.


 
  
 Agreed. The drivers are different too... (visually and from the sound as well) Here the difference for other members : 
  
  
  
  
  


nolife1123 said:


> Could anyone recommend me a model from the KZ line? Going to be used for metal/rock, don't really like thumping/deafening bass and prefer clarity of instrumentals, good vocals on them over bass, a decent soundstage and separation is plus too (balance of it all would be extremely good).They'll be used with a Ruizu X02!
> Heard the KZ ED3 is good (people call them ED3 S3, don't know if that's the same thing), my choice is between the models found here: http://www.gearbest.com/kz-_gear/ - the ones up to ~$12. Also, would anyone know what they're like when compared with the Xiaomi Piston 3's (I've got them already) in term of SQ?
> Thanks!


 
 I'd recommend ATE and ED9 for this task. Take it with a pinch of salt as I don't Ruizu.


----------



## nolife1123

ruben123 said:


> The ruizu has some roll off on both sides (less than neutral treble and bass) so I'd choose a bit warm sounding earphone with a touch too much treble. I have the hds1 and it is just perfect . ed9 with a bass cut is just anemic.


 
 What about the ED3? Unfortunately, Gearbest doesn't sell the HDS1, and i've got a 30% discount there that I'd like to use . Any of the Gearbest available ones recommended?
  


eisenbricher said:


> I'd recommend ATE and ED9 for this task. Take it with a pinch of salt as I don't Ruizu.


 
 Isn't the ED9 bass heavy? What's the ATE sound signature like?


----------



## B9Scrambler

nolife1123 said:


> What about the ED3? Unfortunately, Gearbest doesn't sell the HDS1, and i've got a 30% discount there that I'd like to use . Any of the Gearbest available ones recommended?
> 
> Isn't the ED9 bass heavy? What's the ATE sound signature like?




In my opinion the ED3 would be a solid pick, as long as it's the original model. The Youth/ED3c model is pretty bassy and doesn't offer the same levels of detail and clarity.

Edit: I see that they are selling only the original ED3.


----------



## EISENbricher

nolife1123 said:


> Isn't the ED9 bass heavy? What's the ATE sound signature like?


 
 Nope ED9 isn't bass heavy. Also you have choice to switch between 2 pair of nozzles. The gold one would be bassier (in relative terms) and the brass one sounds pretty balanced. 
 ATE has smooth sound signature with slightly enhanced low end. The lows go pretty deep but aren't overpowering too much. Highs are non-sibilant and extend fairly. The best region on ATE are the mids. The vocals sound very refined and guitars nice, crunchy on ATE. 
 ED9 (with brass) is crunchier, has lesser bass than ATE but better extended highs which are slightly uncontrolled as well. In brief ED9 sounds aggressive vs ATE sounds smooth/elegant if that makes sense. 
  
 I now feel I confused more rather than helping... haha. But anyway please collect advice from number of people and then make up your mind. Since it's easy to afford KZ it's always a better idea to narrow down to 2-3 different models and ordering 'em all!


----------



## nolife1123

eisenbricher said:


> Nope ED9 isn't bass heavy. Also you have choice to switch between 2 pair of nozzles. The gold one would be bassier (in relative terms) and the brass one sounds pretty balanced.
> ATE has smooth sound signature with slightly enhanced low end. The lows go pretty deep but aren't overpowering too much. Highs are non-sibilant and extend fairly. The best region on ATE are the mids. The vocals sound very refined and guitars nice, crunchy on ATE.
> ED9 (with brass) is crunchier, has lesser bass than ATE but better extended highs which are slightly uncontrolled as well. In brief ED9 sounds aggressive vs ATE sounds smooth/elegant if that makes sense.
> 
> I now feel I confused more rather than helping... haha. But anyway please collect advice from number of people and then make up your mind. Since it's easy to afford KZ it's always a better idea to narrow down to 2-3 different models and ordering 'em all!


 
 The ATE sounds more like my cup of tea, I'll likely be ordering them in the next few days (student budget kinda sucks, so I can't really order multiple at a time :<)
 Thanks a lot for the explanation, it did help out, you weren't confusing in any way


----------



## Arsis

nolife1123 said:


> What about the ED3? Unfortunately, Gearbest doesn't sell the HDS1, and i've got a 30% discount there that I'd like to use . Any of the Gearbest available ones recommended?
> 
> Isn't the ED9 bass heavy? What's the ATE sound signature like?


I'm not a basshead and I enjoy the ed9. You get two sound signatures with the ed9's interchangeable filters.


----------



## peter123

iwaffle said:


> Not harping on you or anything, but I hate it when people plaster terms like 'basshead' onto iems like these, as if bass was the only thing the ZS1 was good at. I mostly grabbed this for how well its bass blends with the treble and the soundstage, and also how spacious the soundstage was compared to other KZ iems.
> 
> As you can (or can't) tell, my priority nowadays is soundstage, followed by sub-bass.
> 
> That aside, I wasn't comparing the zs1's treble with anything in particular; I simply found the excess airiness/sparkle in the higher treble a little disconcerting to my ears, because it made a lot of tracks I listen to generate this droning static-like noise at the very extreme upper ends of the frequency spectrum, somewhere around 16.5~18khz.




Seriously???

All he said is that they're good for bassheads, do you disagree about that?

Jeeze........


----------



## nolife1123

arsis said:


> I'm not a basshead and I enjoy the ed9. You get two sound signatures with the ed9's interchangeable filters.


 
 I'm a bit of a sucker for mids, so the ATE would be more fitting for my taste :>


----------



## kiler

I know I've asked this before, but what tips do you guys think that suit the KZ-ATE best? I like the sound of the stock silicone tips, but they are not that comfy


----------



## 1clearhead

eisenbricher said:


> Agreed. The drivers are different too... (visually and from the sound as well) Here the difference for other members :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Which one would you say provides better clarity out of the two? The ZN1, or the ZS1?


----------



## EISENbricher

1clearhead said:


> Which one would you say provides better clarity out of the two? The ZN1, or the ZS1?


ZN1 for sure.


----------



## kaiteck

kiler said:


> I know I've asked this before, but what tips do you guys think that suit the KZ-ATE best? I like the sound of the stock silicone tips, but they are not that comfy


 
 I find the memory foam eartips it came with suits the best, but it worn out pretty quickly. I'm still waiting my KZ whirlwind eartips. Will reply if it's good :3


----------



## carltonh

I managed to screw up 3 Aliexpress orders, not sure if my fault or Aliexpress, as I've never made such an error before, but mixing my shipping zipcode and city with my billing zipcode and city for the KZ Z1, Rock Zircon, and Yinjw Wooden V2. Off by one digit and a neighboring city. The tracking on one made it all the way to my zipcode and then shows being returned for lack of proper address. Not sure how this will resolve. This sucks. At least my orders for ED4, another Z1, VE Monk, and HDS3 have correct addresses.


----------



## vsls

eisenbricher said:


> Nope ED9 isn't bass heavy. Also you have choice to switch between 2 pair of nozzles. The gold one would be bassier (in relative terms) and the brass one sounds pretty balanced.
> ATE has smooth sound signature with slightly enhanced low end. The lows go pretty deep but aren't overpowering too much. Highs are non-sibilant and extend fairly. The best region on ATE are the mids. The vocals sound very refined and guitars nice, crunchy on ATE.
> ED9 (with brass) is crunchier, has lesser bass than ATE but better extended highs which are slightly uncontrolled as well. In brief ED9 sounds aggressive vs ATE sounds smooth/elegant if that makes sense.
> 
> I now feel I confused more rather than helping... haha. But anyway please collect advice from number of people and then make up your mind. Since it's easy to afford KZ it's always a better idea to narrow down to 2-3 different models and ordering 'em all!



 


I think that pretty much both of these KZ would fit my SQ but I've read that they are not that comfortable to use. ED9 are a bit heavy and ATE a bit large for everyday outdoors use. Is that right? I find HDS1's size perfect but of course this is a micro-driver and the IEM is tiny, which has the best fit for me.
Also an update on HDS1, I hated the stock tips but it worked perfectly with VSonic's VSD1S small tips.


----------



## mur3633

What is better for Rock/Metal music ?
I can't decide.
KZ ED9 Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HiFi Earphone With Microphone Transparent Sound
http://s.aliexpress.com/eQ7fMb6z
(from AliExpress Android)
ED10
KZ ED10 New Original Brand ED10 KZ HIFI 3.5mm In Ear Earphones Heavy Bass HIFI Headphone Headset For Mp3 Mp4 Phone Free Shipping
http://s.aliexpress.com/7JFrEnui
(from AliExpress Android)
Thanks


----------



## kiler

kaiteck said:


> I find the memory foam eartips it came with suits the best, but it worn out pretty quickly. I'm still waiting my KZ whirlwind eartips. Will reply if it's good :3


 
 Niceee, thank you for the feedback ^^


----------



## 1clearhead

noef said:


> Just received the HDS1. Absolutely amazing.
> 
> Im ready for the S3 and the S4


 
 Go for it!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


eisenbricher said:


> ZN1 for sure.


 
  
 Thanks for the info!


----------



## cr0wnest

mur3633 said:


> What is better for Rock/Metal music ?
> I can't decide.
> KZ ED9 Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HiFi Earphone With Microphone Transparent Sound
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eQ7fMb6z
> ...




Between the two, I'd say the ED9. They sound more balanced, especially with the brass nozzles. Never liked the ED10/11 it lacked weight to me.


----------



## Ruben123

After a relisten to hds1 vs ed9 I find the ed9 to be more neutral. I like the hds1 more though because of the low weight.


----------



## dbhai

I have finally ordered S3 and S4 both from MisterTao (a TaoBao agent / forwarder), but noticed that it is coming with general KZ cable now, no black cable, hope nothing else is changed with it

 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/522205167561.html
  
 And after ordering noticed that price reduced on AliExpress for the same, what luck 

 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html

 push Buy now button if anyone was planning for it


----------



## nolife1123

dbhai said:


> I have finally ordered S3 and S4 both from MisterTao (a TaoBao agent / forwarder), but noticed that it is coming with general KZ cable now, no black cable, hope nothing else is changed with it
> 
> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/522205167561.html
> 
> ...



Which one is the correct one on Mistertao from the choices, theres some nonsense with 'wheat' versions, what would that mean? And how reliable is mistertao anyways? Since the difference in prices is quite large from aliex, it could be worth grabbing them from there.


----------



## EISENbricher

nolife1123 said:


> Which one is the correct one on Mistertao from the choices, theres some nonsense with 'wheat' versions, what would that mean? And how reliable is mistertao anyways? Since the difference in prices is quite large from aliex, it could be worth grabbing them from there.


 
 General rule of thumb is, if something is currently at low price on Tao, it'll get down to comparable price on Ali a few days later. If you need the item soon then I'd suggest to use a forwarding service such as MisterTao (unless you live in China and can read the language). They'll charge shipping fee + commission but it's affordable in cases. Otherwise you may wait for a week or two and the item may become available on AliExpress.
  
 I've had ordered 4-5 items using this till now and everything arrived very properly. Actually the forwarding service experience was even better than buying something from AliExpress. Especially because they unbox, verify products (yep, they will open the box) and capture the pics which you can view in your order page. Then after paying international shipping fee they'll repack the item and send it to you using your preferred international shipping method.
  
 'Wheat' version means 'With Mic'.  
  


ruben123 said:


> After a relisten to hds1 vs ed9 I find the ed9 to be more neutral. I like the hds1 more though because of the low weight.


 That thing is easily the most comfortable earphone I've ever had. Love it!
  


dbhai said:


> And after ordering noticed that price reduced on AliExpress for the same, what luck


 


 Haha that happens most of the times : )
  


mur3633 said:


> What is better for Rock/Metal music ?
> I can't decide.
> KZ ED9 Super Bowl Tuning Nozzles T Shaped Driver Monitoring In Ear Headphones HiFi Earphone With Microphone Transparent Sound
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eQ7fMb6z
> ...


 I fear ED10 would pack more bass than required for Metal/Rock music. That one is better for EDM. For Metal/Rock ED9 wins among these two. Of course you get 2 sound signatures on one earphone thanks to the nozzles. 
  


vsls said:


> I think that pretty much both of these KZ would fit my SQ but I've read that they are not that comfortable to use. ED9 are a bit heavy and ATE a bit large for everyday outdoors use. Is that right? I find HDS1's size perfect but of course this is a micro-driver and the IEM is tiny, which has the best fit for me.
> Also an update on HDS1, I hated the stock tips but it worked perfectly with VSonic's VSD1S small tips.


  
 That impression is relative. I don't think ED9 is heavy. It's definitely much lighter than ED8 and ED3 Perfection, slightly lighter than EDSE, similar in weight compared to ATE and heavier compared to HDS1, ED10, ED11. Its size is small though so I don't think it'd be a problem in getting a fit and listening for long time. YMMV though.
  
 ATE's issue is slightly different. It's fairly light but its body as well as nozzle diameter is rather large. It may pose a bit of problem and might need some tip rolling to achieve good and comfy fit. But the sound is super good!


----------



## vsls

@EISENbricher Thanks for the info. Probably ATE won't fit me since I usually prefer small/xsmall nozzles (HDS1, Vsonic VSD1S, Tenore) so I will just focus on ED9 since the dual nozzles option seems quite appealing.
Since I had an issue with my Xiaomi Hybrid I can either re-order them (loved the soundstange and overall big sound feeling despite the slightly V shape sound sig) or ED9. Has anyone compared them?


----------



## nolife1123

eisenbricher said:


> General rule of thumb is, if something is currently at low price on Tao, it'll get down to comparable price on Ali a few days later. If you need the item soon then I'd suggest to use a forwarding service such as MisterTao (unless you live in China and can read the language). They'll charge shipping fee + commission but it's affordable in cases. Otherwise you may wait for a week or two and the item may become available on AliExpress.
> 
> I've had ordered 4-5 items using this till now and everything arrived very properly. Actually the forwarding service experience was even better than buying something from AliExpress. Especially because they unbox, verify products (yep, they will open the box) and capture the pics which you can view in your order page. Then after paying international shipping fee they'll repack the item and send it to you using your preferred international shipping method.
> 
> ...


 
 That's pretty great actually! However, I might as well just wait till it appears on aliexpress, I'll keep track of it daily, thanks a lot for the info!


----------



## 1clearhead

dbhai said:


> I have finally ordered S3 and S4 both from MisterTao (a TaoBao agent / forwarder), but noticed that it is coming with general KZ cable now, no black cable, hope nothing else is changed with it
> 
> http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/522205167561.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea, I realized that! Bummer, those black and blue cables where pretty nice!
  


nolife1123 said:


> Which one is the correct one on Mistertao from the choices, theres some nonsense with *'wheat' versions*, what would that mean? And how reliable is mistertao anyways? Since the difference in prices is quite large from aliex, it could be worth grabbing them from there.


 
  
 "Wheat versions" means "microphone versions"
  
 "No wheat" means "no microphone".         .....these are simple audio terms coming from China.


----------



## nolife1123

1clearhead said:


> Yea, I realized that! Bummer, those black and blue cables where pretty nice!
> 
> 
> "Wheat versions" means "microphone versions"
> ...


 
 Excuse my lack of knowledge with that sort of things, I've mostly used ebay/aliex/gearbest to shop online (never taobao/mistertao or anything similar) meaning I don't actually know what google translate will translate certain terms to, and I asked because I wanted to get informed about it .


----------



## 1clearhead

nolife1123 said:


> Excuse my lack of knowledge with that sort of things, I've mostly used ebay/aliex/gearbest to shop online (never taobao/mistertao or anything similar) meaning I don't actually know what google translate will translate certain terms to, and I asked because I wanted to get informed about it .


 

 No worries.....I had to learn this by asking the same questions myself. The more we ask, the more we learn. Cheers mate!


----------



## Hisoundfi

Hey guys,
  
 Nice to see everyone getting along with their KZ earphones subscriptions as I have done the same, my HDS3 is on the way as I type this LOL
  
 I just got the ZN1 mini. Its a ZS1, minus the amp. A smart move for KZ. For a bass heavy earphone they have a very wide sound field and are quite enjoyable to my ears. 
  
 I would say they are like a bassier ATE but in a fun and good way. I see many who listen to modern genres hyping these to the heavens. 
  
 Now, I'm hoping KZ takes the inline amp from them and sells it with replaceable batteries. THAT would be awesome!
  
 Let it be known KZ! We want to see the amp from the ZS1 sold as an external device we can bind to our phones and DAP. Pleae make the power supply replaceable batteries and improve the casing so it is shielded from electromagnetic interferance. 
  
 Pretty please?


----------



## CADCAM

1clearhead said:


> Yea, I realized that! Bummer, those black and blue cables where pretty nice!


 
 I saw these to but after I had already ordered them before at the higher price...I ordered mine in gray with the black cable as I thought they looked the best IMO. Now that the price is reduced I see they have the same old multi color cable from every other KZ in some of the pics.
 I'm hoping mine come in with the black cable or I'm gonna be pissed. I don't mind paying the extra bucks as long as I get the gray with the newer black cable...will post when they come in...if they ever come in I ordered the 2nd.


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Nice to see everyone getting along with their KZ earphones subscriptions as I have done the same, my HDS3 is on the way as I type this LOL
> 
> ...


 
 Do you mean ZN1 minus amp? Because ZS1 is already without amp... So both ZS1 and ZN1mini look nearly identical (except cable difference) but they sound much different.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Nice to see everyone getting along with their KZ earphones subscriptions as I have done the same, my HDS3 is on the way as I type this LOL
> 
> ...




ZS1 is the first model without the amp.The ZN1 is the original with the amp.  Glad you are enjoying the Mini though. Can't wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## Ruben123

I cant wait for more KZ S3 impressions!


----------



## HiFiChris

Getting on the ZN1/ZS1 topic again:
  
  


 Grey is ZN1, red ZS1. Vibro Veritas, pseudo-calibrated to more or less match an IEC 711 coupler's mic response with applied diffuse-field target.
 Channel matching is by the way excellent with both models.

 Comparative review between both: http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone/reviews/14605
  
  
 I guess the ZN1 Mini will be a good product for people who like much bass; there are some things where the ZS1 lacks behind (smaller soundstage due to closed-back tweeter, kind of messed up transition between both drivers (the dip isn't really audible but the following peak in the lower mids is)).


----------



## EISENbricher

hifichris said:


> Getting on the ZN1/ZS1 topic again:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome. Beautifully matches with my observation. ZN1mini sounds much better and refined than ZS1 and despite a little calm mid region the ZN1mini is pretty awesome in highs and lows. 
  
 Yup and ZN1mini's soundstage amazes me : )


----------



## swg0101

Anybody noticed the note placed by the S3 seller on Taobao regarding the different batches of S3 being made?
 According to the seller, S3s shipped prior to Jan 06 2016 has a spray on paint that may be susceptible to fading if you rub on any of the painted areas (primarily the logo and the text).
 Products shipped after Jan 06 will resist fading and has a better sound quality than the previous batches. The seller also notes that it has better clarity and the fine details are better.
 I have ordered mine a couple weeks back from the seller and is still waiting for mine to arrive by ePacket (mine supposedly has a light blue cable which indicates it is the mic version.)
 Anyone received theirs shipped after the sixth and noticed any differences?


----------



## CADCAM

Just played the same tune _Acoustic Alchemy~ Against the Grain _on several of my iem's. Little comment on what I heard.
 First up was the ED3 Acme Youth - good low end and nice details all around, impressive and clean sounding
 Next was the Rock Zircon - good sounding but bass was just too much and coming from the ED3 it just wasn't impressive being too unrealistic in the lows
 On to the HDS1 - really neutral highs, mids, lows... all equally represented...flat but enjoyable
 Next was the ED9 brass - great detail, seemed to be able to play louder while dissecting the song up very accurately. Highs were good, bass was good, my fav so far
 Not fair but next was my Puro IEM500 which cost as much as 4+ pair of KZ's but in all honesty it did spank them...but lightly. Not as much as I thought they might. I think coming from the ED9 is what saved the KZ's butt's a little. Piano was better, highs were more refined and bass just sounded cleaner out of the Puro's. It showed me, first that the Zircons just have too much accentuated bass for me and that the HDS1 is a little too flat sounding, the ED3Y is similar to the HDS1 but kicks the lows and highs up a bit with good results. The ED9 is still my favorite KZ and the Puro's are just at a different level in detail and presentation.
 It's tough to say if 4 to 5 pair of KZ's are the way to go or to just get the Puro's. I think I'll listen to the KZ's a lot less now that I have the Puro's but the ED3Y and ED9 will see some head time. It's been a great ride but I think I'm moving on from the KZ train...I'll stop by every now and then to see what the newest buzz is about. It's winter here and those Senn's and Beyer full size cans are looking a lot more comfy than in the summer...


----------



## mccririck

Where is cheapest for the Puro IEM500?


----------



## peter123

mccririck said:


> Where is cheapest for the Puro IEM500?




EBay I believe but I still haven't found any seller that ships outside the US.

Sorry about the OT.


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Nice to see everyone getting along with their KZ earphones subscriptions as I have done the same, my HDS3 is on the way as I type this LOL
> 
> ...


 
  
    Good idea!.....I hope they listen!
  


cadcam said:


> I saw these to but after I had already ordered them before at the higher price...I ordered mine in gray with the black cable as I thought they looked the best IMO. Now that the price is reduced I see they have the same old multi color cable from every other KZ in some of the pics.
> I'm hoping mine come in with the black cable or I'm gonna be pissed. I don't mind paying the extra bucks as long as I get the gray with the newer black cable...will post when they come in...if they ever come in I ordered the 2nd.


 
  
    +1 ....I'll be pissed, too! ....I'm kind of tired of those same old sticky wires. 
  
    Quote:


eisenbricher said:


> Awesome. Beautifully matches with my observation. ZN1mini sounds much better and refined than ZS1 and despite a little calm mid region the ZN1mini is pretty awesome in highs and lows.
> 
> Yup and ZN1mini's soundstage amazes me : )


 
  
    +1 ....Great observation!


----------



## dbhai

eisenbricher said:


> Haha that happens most of the times : )


 
  
 Yes man, I too have experienced that now, but glad to know, you had good experience with MisterTao, and I opted for SG post, hope they deliver quickly.


----------



## dbhai

1clearhead said:


> Yea, I realized that! Bummer, those black and blue cables where pretty nice!


 
  
 Totally, I started to like S3 since you started to mention about their sound quality and then after seeing the pictures liked them more, still I hope they sound the same with this generic cable.
  


cadcam said:


> I saw these to but after I had already ordered them before at the higher price...I ordered mine in gray with the black cable as I thought they looked the best IMO. Now that the price is reduced I see they have the same old multi color cable from every other KZ in some of the pics.
> I'm hoping mine come in with the black cable or I'm gonna be pissed. I don't mind paying the extra bucks as long as I get the gray with the newer black cable...will post when they come in...if they ever come in I ordered the 2nd.


 
  
 I wished to get the same until I got they no longer available and what I ordered with be grey/silver with KZ generic cable 
  


swg0101 said:


> Anybody noticed the note placed by the S3 seller on Taobao regarding the different batches of S3 being made?
> According to the seller, S3s shipped prior to Jan 06 2016 has a spray on paint that may be susceptible to fading if you rub on any of the painted areas (primarily the logo and the text).
> Products shipped after Jan 06 will resist fading and has a better sound quality than the previous batches. The seller also notes that it has better clarity and the fine details are better.
> I have ordered mine a couple weeks back from the seller and is still waiting for mine to arrive by ePacket (mine supposedly has a light blue cable which indicates it is the mic version.)
> Anyone received theirs shipped after the sixth and noticed any differences?


 
  
 yes I noticed that, now just to hope that they sound the same, as before, also if someone has a pair from earlier batches and this new batch, only can say the exact difference.


----------



## swg0101

dbhai said:


> Yes man, I too have experienced that now, but glad to know, you had good experience with MisterTao, and I opted for SG post, hope they deliver quickly.


 
 Just as a note, the Taobao seller that was mentioned here a couple times is willing to ship directly to the US using ePacket for a very nominal amount, although you might need to get around the language barrier in order to do that. 
 For SG registered mail, the time for delivery is about 2-3 weeks or so.


----------



## dbhai

yes that is right, I did see some other members mentioning about contacting the seller, and it is a plus if the seller knows english

 I dont think ePacket service is available for India, so it would be either China post or Singapore post for me.
  
 But glad for this info you shared


----------



## swg0101

The seller doesn't really know English well, but he did tell me he will use Bing Translate if you talked to him in English.
 I asked the seller for you, he told me he does ship directly to India using China Post Small Parcels service, and the postage will be around 12-15 CNY (123-154 Rupees - 1.83-2.28 USD), although there is a 3% credit card convenience fee when paying using Alipay on Taobao.
  
 I did order my S3 on the 4th, but it seems like the seller was nice enough to delay the shipment until he has gotten the new batch. ePacket did seem to be a tad bit slow this time around, although it looks like I will be getting it this week - can't wait!


----------



## dbhai

swg0101 said:


> The seller doesn't really know English well, but he did tell me he will use Bing Translate if you talked to him in English.
> I asked the seller for you, he told me he does ship directly to India using China Post Small Parcels service, and the postage will be around 12-15 CNY (123-154 Rupees - 1.83-2.28 USD), although there is a 3% credit card convenience fee when paying using Alipay on Taobao.
> 
> I did order my S3 on the 4th, but it seems like the seller was nice enough to delay the shipment until he has gotten the new batch. ePacket did seem to be a tad bit slow this time around, although it looks like I will be getting it this week - can't wait!


 
  
 That is great to hear, really appreciate this  so now next time I too shall try this and see how it works out, with China post, it shall take same transit time. 
  
 and that credit card service charge is applicable on MisterTao as well, as they too use Alipay only. But for their service they take pictures of the products for you, and share before they ship it.


----------



## swg0101

Well, by buying directly from the seller you are cutting the middleman, which saves you the double shipping fees + commission fees, and shipping will likely be faster since the you don't have to wait for the package to arrive domestically in China at the transfer point before it is actually sent to your real address.


----------



## CoiL

vsls said:


> Probably ATE won't fit me since I usually prefer small/xsmall nozzles (HDS1, Vsonic VSD1S, Tenore) so I will just focus on ED9


 
 I use only small/xsmall silicone tips and for me ATE has great snug & tight fit without being uncomfortable. Did You mix up word nozzles with tips? Asking because HDS1 & ED9 also has typical size nozzle.


----------



## EISENbricher

dbhai said:


> Yes man, I too have experienced that now, but glad to know, you had good experience with MisterTao, and I opted for SG post, hope they deliver quickly.


 
 SG post is best you can get at low shipping cost. I've had multiple experiences with China, Sweden, HK and SG posts and SG post by far is the fastest one followed by HK, Sweden and then the snail paced China post. 
  
 But at least it's better than 'Seller's shipping method' on AliExpress. Almost my 60% orders never reached to me using those (Flyte and similar couriers).
  


coil said:


> I use only small/xsmall silicone tips and for me ATE has great snug & tight fit without being uncomfortable. Did You mix up word nozzles with tips? Asking because HDS1 & ED9 also has typical size nozzle.


 
 I beg to pardon... while ED9 has average sized nozzle the HDS1 actually has a small sized one. This was easily verified as number of tips I do have which snugly fit on ED9 are just too large and leave air gap on HDS1. 
  
 ATE on the other hand has a large bore one.. It's nearly equal to TTPOD T1E, but just a tad bit smaller. With small, narrow tips ATE should be okay for most users though/


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I use only small/xsmall silicone tips and for me ATE has great snug & tight fit without being uncomfortable. Did You mix up word nozzles with tips? Asking because HDS1 & ED9 also has typical size nozzle.
> ...


 
 Sorry if I spread wrong info. Since I haven`t been so frequent guest in this thread anymore, I have missed this info on HDS1. From the pics HDS1 nozzle seemed typical to me. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## EISENbricher

Small update on ZN1mini after about a week of use : 
  
 The burn in process (not sure whether it's a brain burn in or diaphragm burn in) happened. The mids now sound improved and are less laid back then before and now it's sounding more coherent. 
  
 Best attribute of ZN1mini is the soundstage! ZN1mini produces typical Dual Dynamic 3D feel soundstage without a hitch. It's very wide and moderately deep. 
  
 This should be the go to recommendation for lovers of soundstage. This is neither a fun sounding earphone, nor an analytical earphone. This sits between both the categories and shares both traits halfway. A very good mix in my opinion.
  
 Let me know if anyone wants me to compare it with other DDs like TTPOD T1E, Havi B3 Pro1 or VJJB V1.


----------



## 1clearhead

eisenbricher said:


> Small update on ZN1mini after about a week of use :
> 
> The burn in process (not sure whether it's a brain burn in or diaphragm burn in) happened. The mids now sound improved and are less laid back then before and now it's sounding more coherent.
> 
> ...


 

 I would like to see a comparison between the KZ-ZN1 and iROCK A8, since one of these two might be my next purchase.


----------



## more

eisenbricher said:


> Let me know if anyone wants me to compare it with other DDs like TTPOD T1E, Havi B3 Pro1 or VJJB V1.




To ttpod t1e - very intresting.


----------



## Arsis

more said:


> To ttpod t1e - very intresting.


+1 on the T1E. Havi too. I like them both.


----------



## kaiteck

Update on using whirlwind eartips on kz ate-s

Unfortunately the tips doesn't exactly fits... It sounds airy and bass is almost vanished. My ears may didn't get a right fit for it.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## EISENbricher

kaiteck said:


> Update on using whirlwind eartips on kz ate-s
> 
> Unfortunately the tips doesn't exactly fits... It sounds airy and bass is almost vanished. My ears may didn't get a right fit for it.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


thank god I'm not the only one who find whirlwind unusable. 

I guess that might be due to ear cavity shape but yeah.


----------



## nemosmknimh

Hye. I wanna give my friend a new set of in ears for her birthday.
 She enjoys Psychedelic/ambient kind of musics but I don't know what kind of qualities an in ears should have for these music.
  
 Anyone can suggest anything from KZ? thanks.
  
 I guess music like this?
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jyTinxcKDg
  
 Thanks


----------



## sgl54

eisenbricher said:


> thank god I'm not the only one who find whirlwind unusable.
> 
> I guess that might be due to ear cavity shape but yeah.



I've had great luck with the whirlwind tubines both blue and yellow ( although haven't seen yellow in a long long time ( in Kz time ) Thanks fkr the review on the Zn1 mini, I had ordered a set before the holidays last hear and as there not here just ordered another, ( different vendor) which should mean the originals may arrive today or tomarrow? Thanks again


----------



## Podster

nemosmknimh said:


> Hye. I wanna give my friend a new set of in ears for her birthday.
> She enjoys Psychedelic/ambient kind of musics but I don't know what kind of qualities an in ears should have for these music.
> 
> Anyone can suggest anything from KZ? thanks.
> ...


 

 Now this is just my opinion but I'd start her with a pair of HDS1's


----------



## CADCAM

Just started dispute on my KZ S3 gray with black cable. Ordered 1-2-2016 never received them but seller did inform me the cable is the same old clear cable on every other KZ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have the ED3 Perfection & Acme.
  
 The only reason I ordered these were that new black cable and wanted to hear the S3...these sellers need to ship what they advertise in the time they state in the ad which was 12-15 days. Seller is http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1819706
 hold off on final judgement until dispute is settled... I'll let you guys know how it goes. 
  
 And to really stick it in my eye I paid 12 bucks and they are 8.88 now...
 Too bad cuz they do look bad@$$ in the gray with that black cable.
 btw anone received the S3 with the black or blue cable??


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Hey guys, does anyone have a pic of the tips you get with the ED9 black? I have a sneaky suspicion that I might have received some fakes :/


----------



## Arsis

lifted andreas said:


> Hey guys, does anyone have a pic of the tips you get with the ED9 black? I have a sneaky suspicion that I might have received some fakes :/


Some good pix here. http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/accessories/review-kz-ed9-kz-ate-ear-headphones-t3119184


----------



## Lifted Andreas

arsis said:


> Some good pix here. http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/accessories/review-kz-ed9-kz-ate-ear-headphones-t3119184


 
  
 Hmm those are the silver ED9 though.
  
 Mine are the ED9 black and came in a different box, I'll post a picture later tonight when I get home.


----------



## B9Scrambler

lifted andreas said:


> Hmm those are the silver ED9 though.
> 
> Mine are the ED9 black and came in a different box, I'll post a picture later tonight when I get home.




KZs packaging isn't the most consistent thing in the world. Probably just one of many thousands of variant out there, lol.


----------



## CADCAM

I have 2 pair of ED9 in chrome and they both came in the plastic shield boxes. My tips are different also, one pair red core with the red ring on top the others are red core but grey on top like the rest of the body. These look like the red core is visible at top on all of them.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

I'm pretty sure these are fakes... 



I've ordered another pair from HCkexin (Theresa) on AliExpress to compare.


----------



## Ruben123

lifted andreas said:


> I'm pretty sure these are fakes...
> 
> 
> 
> I've ordered another pair from HCkexin (Theresa) on AliExpress to compare.


 
  
 Pretty sure they are not!


----------



## HiFiChris

lifted andreas said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks just normal and legit - identical accessories and packaging as my "old" ED-9 (the chrome ones).


----------



## ajaxender

lifted andreas said:


> I'm pretty sure these are fakes...
> 
> 
> 
> I've ordered another pair from HCkexin (Theresa) on AliExpress to compare.


 
  
 No idea why you'd think that, thats a KZ shield box + red core tips that come with ED9 silver + the dark grey standard silicones they've included in the last few models (HDS1, ED3 Youth at least)


----------



## Lifted Andreas

hifichris said:


> Looks just normal and legit - identical accessories and packaging as my "old" ED-9 (the chrome ones).







ajaxender said:


> No idea why you'd think that, thats a KZ shield box + red core tips that come with ED9 silver + the dark grey standard silicones they've included in the last few models (HDS1, ED3 Youth at least)




Thanks for the confirmation guys, I guess I'll cancel the new order.


----------



## B9Scrambler

lifted andreas said:


> Thanks for the confirmation guys, I guess I'll cancel the new order.




Welcome to the KZ experience. Expect the unexpected!


----------



## Lifted Andreas

b9scrambler said:


> Welcome to the KZ experience. Expect the unexpected!




Haha yeah, the thing that threw me off was the box tbh


----------



## Podster

lifted andreas said:


> Haha yeah, the thing that threw me off was the box tbh


 

 No, everyone is correct that is exactly how my 3 pair of originals came, I'm sure they are legit Lifted. That box has many functions as well


----------



## Lifted Andreas

podster said:


> No, everyone is correct that is exactly how my 3 pair of originals came, I'm sure they are legit Lifted. That box has many functions as well



Thanks bud! 

I searched around and many places showed a rectangular box so I was hello confused.

Is that a FiiO M3 by any chance?


----------



## EISENbricher

nemosmknimh said:


> Hye. I wanna give my friend a new set of in ears for her birthday.
> She enjoys Psychedelic/ambient kind of musics but I don't know what kind of qualities an in ears should have for these music.
> 
> Anyone can suggest anything from KZ? thanks.
> ...


 
 Soundstage would be the key for Psychedelic/ambient music and ZN1 mini would be the best bet. It has nice surround feel and overall sound is pretty refined. Strongly recommended.
  
 ED8m and ATE are the other ones that I can think of that would go well with this genre.
  
  
  


sgl54 said:


> I've had great luck with the whirlwind tubines both blue and yellow ( although haven't seen yellow in a long long time ( in Kz time ) Thanks fkr the review on the Zn1 mini, I had ordered a set before the holidays last hear and as there not here just ordered another, ( different vendor) which should mean the originals may arrive today or tomarrow? Thanks again


 
 Good for you... it might be the difference in ear cavity shape. I find the whirlwinds too hard as I'm used to very soft Sony hybrids or other soft silicone tips.
 Best luck for ZN1, it's a gem of an earphone : ) 
  


lifted andreas said:


> Hmm those are the silver ED9 though.
> 
> Mine are the ED9 black and came in a different box, I'll post a picture later tonight when I get home.


 
 That was the box when ED9 was just launched. Those who had it ordered very early got that rectangular one. I also did get the same when I purchased my first pair and then the shield shaped one later with second pair. 
  
 To verify whether the earphone is original or not I'd suggest to do a quality check on cable. The KZ cable should be brown colored one on ED9 and should have a little springy feel to it. 
 I don't think that there will be fake ED9 around though... already KZ prices it so low even along with the nozzles. In worst case it may be a part of a rejected batch but in that case it'll just sound pretty bad. 
  
 Please let it burn in for some time, ED9 is top crop of KZ. Most of the people would love its sound assuming the pair is legit.


----------



## Podster

lifted andreas said:


> Thanks bud!
> 
> I searched around and many places showed a rectangular box so I was hello confused.
> 
> Is that a FiiO M3 by any chance?




Indeed it is, it has since been moved to a nice retagular zipper case I can't remember biw which was my first pair of KZ's that came in what I call their green packaging but I've gotten them in the black box as well as some came in plain cardboard color. I really don't care what they come in as long as they sound goid with no flaws All my iem's end up in a KZ zipper pouch anyway


----------



## B9Scrambler

EDR2 arrived! They certainly lack the visual flair of the EDse. Housing looks identical in proportions, but they are much lighter. Now to see how they sound...

Edit: Oh yeah....these are very nice.


----------



## nemosmknimh

eisenbricher said:


> Soundstage would be the key for Psychedelic/ambient music and ZN1 mini would be the best bet. It has nice surround feel and overall sound is pretty refined. Strongly recommended.
> 
> ED8m and ATE are the other ones that I can think of that would go well with this genre.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the recommendation. But ZN1 and ATE are those kind to go over the ear right?
  
 I prefered a wire down type. So is ED8m would be a good choice?


----------



## nemosmknimh

podster said:


> Now this is just my opinion but I'd start her with a pair of HDS1's


 
  
 Thanks for the opinion. I'll read more about HDS1 then.
  
 KZ has so many in ears....


----------



## carltonh

nemosmknimh said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. But ZN1 and ATE are those kind to go over the ear right?
> 
> I prefered a wire down type. So is ED8m would be a good choice?


 

 After a lot more burn in, the ZN1 Mini has mellowed out some. Unfortunately, I don't think it needs mellowing. If anything, the whole presentation is very good and clean but slow, which is not desirable for my often extreme heavy metal usage.. It is most obvious in comparison to the ED10, which is very fast in presentation, from subbass to treble. I've also got an ED8 on order to eventually compare.


----------



## EISENbricher

carltonh said:


> After a lot more burn in, the ZN1 Mini has mellowed out some. Unfortunately, I don't think it needs mellowing. If anything, the whole presentation is very good and clean but slow, which is not desirable for my often extreme heavy metal usage.. It is most obvious in comparison to the ED10, which is very fast in presentation, from subbass to treble. I've also got an ED8 on order to eventually compare.



Yup, ZN1 is mellow compared to ED10. ED10 is among the most aggressive KZ along with ED11 (I've mentioned that somewhere in this thread) 


nemosmknimh said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. But ZN1 and ATE are those kind to go over the ear right?
> 
> I prefered a wire down type. So is ED8m would be a good choice?



Yup those are of that type. 

ED8 is the heaviest KZ though.. ZN1 is comfier to wear that ED8 for long period. 

Have a look on HDS1 and ED9 then, they are the most versatile of KZ lineup and should do enough justice for almost all music genres.


----------



## raguzman1

I ordered some ed9's about a week and a half ago and i was wondering if someone could tell me what is up with my pair. I ordered them through amazon and found that the bass nozzles worked well, but when i used the brass nozzles, things sounded funny. One of the nozzles sounds great, but the other sounds like i can't get a good deal with my ear. It generally just sounds like i barely have the iem in my ear. I thought if had something to do with the left monitor, but I just switched left brass nozzle with the right brass nozzle and it sounded fine. I just don't know what to do and I'm kind of disappointed :/
Tl;Dr, i think i got some bad brass nozzles


----------



## ajaxender

raguzman1 said:


> I ordered some ed9's about a week and a half ago and i was wondering if someone could tell me what is up with my pair. I ordered them through amazon and found that the bass nozzles worked well, but when i used the brass nozzles, things sounded funny. One of the nozzles sounds great, but the other sounds like i can't get a good deal with my ear. It generally just sounds like i barely have the iem in my ear. I thought if had something to do with the left monitor, but I just switched left brass nozzle with the right brass nozzle and it sounded fine. I just don't know what to do and I'm kind of disappointed :/
> Tl;Dr, i think i got some bad brass nozzles




Mine has the same problem. Probably something to do with the material over the vent in the nozzle. You could try messing with it, see what happens.


----------



## EISENbricher

raguzman1 said:


> I ordered some ed9's about a week and a half ago and i was wondering if someone could tell me what is up with my pair. I ordered them through amazon and found that the bass nozzles worked well, but when i used the brass nozzles, things sounded funny. One of the nozzles sounds great, but the other sounds like i can't get a good deal with my ear. It generally just sounds like i barely have the iem in my ear. I thought if had something to do with the left monitor, but I just switched left brass nozzle with the right brass nozzle and it sounded fine. I just don't know what to do and I'm kind of disappointed :/
> Tl;Dr, i think i got some bad brass nozzles



Mine had the same issue. If you see inside the brass nozzle then there should be a small filter covering the side vent. Mine was not placed properly so I repositioned.


----------



## rubick

Just joined the group!


----------



## Horton

zzhead said:


> My HDS 3 has arrived.
> 
> Hi to all,
> I received today the "new" HDS3.
> ...


 
 There is blue=>Left , Right => Red . the same as EDSE. 
 or this picture could earlier to memory. I hope they could put a "hump" in one side, so that could easy to touch.


----------



## angelgrin

Hi guys, can u recommend a kz for me? I dont know wether the kz's are better than stock earphone of my phone.

Source: galaxy s6
Music: hiphop, rnd, techno, rock, acoustics, and some orchestra.
Features: mic, non grippy wires
TIA


Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


----------



## Ruben123

angelgrin said:


> Hi guys, can u recommend a kz for me? I dont know wether the kz's are better than stock earphone of my phone.
> 
> Source: galaxy s6
> Music: hiphop, rnd, techno, rock, acoustics, and some orchestra.
> ...




Ed9 with which you can choose the nozzle (bassy sound or neutral sound) seems to fit you well regarding your preferences.


----------



## anticute

ruben123 said:


> Ed9 with which you can choose the nozzle (bassy sound or neutral sound) seems to fit you well regarding your preferences.


 

 ..except that the cable is pretty grippy and, IMHO, pretty annoying (at least mic version). Then again, most KZ seem to come with a sort of grippy wire, the only one I can remember that doesn't have one is my old EDSE..


----------



## cheapbastard

So recently i've tried my kz lp3 again after a month its being stored in some shelf. The sound quality is a very bright and detailed one, for my reference, I compared it to my samson sr850 headphone which is a copy of superlux hd668b. I tested it again because my taste has changed and i'm one of those people who can say that supelux isn't very sibilant, so my impression of kz lp3 is quite similar in detail retrieval like the samson but has a less bass and might increase the sense of detail when hearing one. Fitting is a hit and miss, my head is quite large and I need to twist the headphone to my liking, even then fit is still quite uncomfortable, very low clamping force for me, maybe changing pads can help. Sorry for my English, i'm Asian and writing these in a hurr.y


----------



## EISENbricher

anticute said:


> ..except that the cable is pretty grippy and, IMHO, pretty annoying (at least mic version). Then again, most KZ seem to come with a sort of grippy wire, the only one I can remember that doesn't have one is my old EDSE..


that varies from batch to batch imo. My old edse has grippy sort of cable and ed9 has less grippy one. 

I agree though that most KZs have grippy cable. It could be from moderate to high. DT3 and R1 had different colored opaque cables which were less or not grippy at all. This can be mitigated by application of little talcum powder.


----------



## angelgrin

anticute said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > Ed9 with which you can choose the nozzle (bassy sound or neutral sound) seems to fit you well regarding your preferences.
> ...



Thanks guys. i will check out the iems you have mentioned. I find it very hard to choose kz's because i cant find a list or we site with all the specs of each.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


----------



## EISENbricher

angelgrin said:


> Thanks guys. i will check out the iems you have mentioned. I find it very hard to choose kz's because i cant find a list or we site with all the specs of each.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk



Its okay... I'll list few KZs and their unique attributes that I have tried and consider better among the lineup.. 

ATE : Smooth/Mellow sound, very good mids and nice soundstage. 

ED9 : Versatile and likely to be liked by most people. 

HDS1 : Very comfortable, high resolution and very good mainstream sound. 

ZN1 mini : Spacious soundstage, mellow sound with fairly high details. 

Or get these 4 and be happy! 


My terminology may conflict with some people but this is just my opinion about my top KZs.


----------



## CADCAM

eisenbricher said:


> Its okay... I'll list few KZs and their unique attributes that I have tried and consider better among the lineup..
> 
> ATE : Smooth/Mellow sound, very good mids and nice soundstage.
> 
> ...


 
 ED3 Acme Youth is also very good IMO.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> EDR2 arrived! They certainly lack the visual flair of the EDse. Housing looks identical in proportions, but they are much lighter. Now to see how they sound...
> 
> Edit: Oh yeah....these are very nice.


 
 One is aluminum and the other pot metal right? Same thing applies to the HDS1 and ED9's


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> One is aluminum and the other pot metal right? Same thing applies to the HDS1 and ED9's:wink_face:




Yeah, I'm guessing steel vs. aluminium. Makes a surprisingly big difference in comfort and fit given the mold is identical. 

I think my HDS3 should be arriving soon. Curious to see/hear the differences vs. The HDS1.


----------



## Pulpfiction

Thanks for your impressions EISEN! I only have ATE from KZ atm, but ZN1 Mini on order, really can't wait . I really enjoy my ATE's, but would like to get a bit more present midbass but especially: treble extension. Listening to songs I know well it becomes pretty apparent that they're (my pair at least) pretty rolled off at the top end. I'm also a soundstage buff . If ZN1 Mini improves on these areas, I think I'm gonna be one happy camper ! (OT: Just got my VE Monks in - holy crap - ATE will probably just be used for my electronic music fix - psytrance / dub stuff like Bluetech & Shpongle  )


----------



## CADCAM

My top fav KZ's
 drum roll please...
  
 #1~ED9 brass
 #2~ED3 Acme Youth
 #3~EDSE
  
 Good but getting no head-time...
 ED3 Perfection
 HDS1
 ED10
  
  
 didn't enjoy due to sound or fit issue's...
 ATE-S
 ZS1
 CM9
  
 JMHO YMMV


----------



## kiler

cadcam said:


> My top fav KZ's
> drum roll please...
> 
> #1~ED9 brass
> ...


 
 What is your sound preference and your usual kind of music? That will help some people to know which KZ is good for what :b


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> My top fav KZ's
> drum roll please...
> 
> #1~ED9 brass
> ...


 

 I wanna play
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Majority of my collection is classic rock and here goes...................
  
 #1~ED9 brass
 #2~HDS1
 #3~ZN1 (Original amped)
  
 Good but getting no head-time...
 ED3 Perfection (Great sounding boat anchors)
 ATE (Depth/seal issue, never found the perfect tips))
 DT5 (Too pretty to wear)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 didn't enjoy due to sound or fit issue's...
 HDS2 (Gave them to this big mouth kid who I assumed had big ear canal's as well)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ED11 (Both 10's and 11's hurt my ears but they sound pretty vibrant)
 ZS1 (Gave to a friend who I knew was a BassHead and of course he raves about them)
  
 YMMV, bada bing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Speaking of classic rock, R.I.P. to two greats! Enjoy


----------



## nemosmknimh

eisenbricher said:


> Yup, ZN1 is mellow compared to ED10. ED10 is among the most aggressive KZ along with ED11 (I've mentioned that somewhere in this thread)
> Yup those are of that type.
> 
> ED8 is the heaviest KZ though.. ZN1 is comfier to wear that ED8 for long period.
> ...


 
  
  
 What do you think of Zircon compare to ZN1 mini?


----------



## Podster

nemosmknimh said:


> What do you think of Zircon compare to ZN1 mini?


 

 WARNING: You are not allowed to compare Rock's in the KZ thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## CADCAM

kiler said:


> What is your sound preference and your usual kind of music? That will help some people to know which KZ is good for what :b


 
 Good idea...it's in my profile also. 
 Rock (Kansas, Yes, etc), Metal (Fates Warning, Dream Theater, etc)
 Also listen to folk, instrumental, a little world music and a splash of classical.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Good idea...it's in my profile also.
> Rock (Kansas, Yes, etc), Metal (Fates Warning, Dream Theater, etc)
> Also listen to folk, instrumental, a little world music and a splash of classical.


 

 Just for you Cad
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 This song...........................

 Sounds AWESOME on this rig


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Just for you Cad


 
 Kansas rules! Thanks Podster.
 btw the HDS1 is nice and balanced, light and easy to wear, now about that cable...


----------



## Lifted Andreas

eisenbricher said:


> Soundstage would be the key for Psychedelic/ambient music and ZN1 mini would be the best bet. It has nice surround feel and overall sound is pretty refined. Strongly recommended.
> 
> ED8m and ATE are the other ones that I can think of that would go well with this genre.
> 
> ...




Yeh I'm not really sure about the round atm, I tried the brass nozzles and the sound went so quite and flat it sounded like I was listening to mouse radio. 

The gold nozzles sound good but I still feel like they need a nice long burn in. Mids sound a bit congested. 




podster said:


> Indeed it is, it has since been moved to a nice retagular zipper case I can't remember biw which was my first pair of KZ's that came in what I call their green packaging but I've gotten them in the black box as well as some came in plain cardboard color. I really don't care what they come in as long as they sound goid with no flaws All my iem's end up in a KZ zipper pouch anyway




Ah Nice, I was thinking of buying the M3 but never pushed the button.


----------



## zzhead

horton said:


> There is blue=>Left , Right => Red . the same as EDSE.
> or this picture could earlier to memory. I hope they could put a "hump" in one side, so that could easy to touch.


 

 TNX so much for the reply. I couldn't' have guessed.!!!!!


----------



## EISENbricher

nemosmknimh said:


> What do you think of Zircon compare to ZN1 mini?


 
  
 Never tried Zircons... 


pulpfiction said:


> Thanks for your impressions EISEN! I only have ATE from KZ atm, but ZN1 Mini on order, really can't wait
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cool... i hope you'll enjoy


----------



## B9Scrambler

Hi there KZ fans! My review of the ED4 is up 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/knowledge-zenith-ed4/reviews/15115
  
 Overall I find them hyper-aggressive, far from neutral, and bloody awesome.


----------



## SWLIU

zzhead said:


> TNX so much for the reply. I couldn't' have guessed.!!!!!


 
 The other way to remember: Red -> Woman -> Right (the woman is always right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## carltonh

b9scrambler said:


> Hi there KZ fans! My review of the ED4 is up
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/knowledge-zenith-ed4/reviews/15115
> 
> Overall I find them hyper-aggressive, far from neutral, and bloody awesome.


 
 You describe it similar to how I describe the ED10, except the ED10 doesn't get shrill or spiky highs at high volume. That said, my Galaxy Note 3 has a "tube amp simulation" that warms up the ED10 and makes a 1-button fix that makes it equal to my $100 IEMs.


----------



## B9Scrambler

carltonh said:


> You describe it similar to how I describe the ED10, except the ED10 doesn't get shrill or spiky highs at high volume. That said, my Galaxy Note 3 has a "tube amp simulation" that warms up the ED10 and makes a 1-button fix that makes it equal to my $100 IEMs.


 
  
 Oooo....that's a cool sounding feature. Pairing the ED4 with a warm source definitely helps, but that shrillness still kicks in occasionally. I think I still like the ED10 more, but the ED4, flaws and all, is up there.
  
 That said, this new EDR2...hot damn am I ever liking it so far! It encouraged me to finish the ED4 review so I can move onto the Brainwavz Omega, then finally to the EDR2. I've only put a couple hours of music through them so far, but what I've heard I've REALLY enjoyed. Even more balanced and detailed than the HDS1 but with a better soundstage and improved treble extension. Less mid-bass too. I noticed as well that the vents on the bottom of the EDR2's housing, while there, are glued shut (looks deliberate). Pretty sure these are fully sealed. Luckily no driver flex! Woot woot.


----------



## zzhead

swliu said:


> The other way to remember: Red -> Woman -> Right (the woman is always right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 WOW! HOW CAN I FORGET THAT!!!!! LOOOOL
 It makes perfect sense.
 Any more ideas along these lines ?


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> Oooo....that's a cool sounding feature. Pairing the ED4 with a warm source definitely helps, but that shrillness still kicks in occasionally. I think I still like the ED10 more, but the ED4, flaws and all, is up there.
> 
> That said, this new EDR2...hot damn am I ever liking it so far! It encouraged me to finish the ED4 review so I can move onto the Brainwavz Omega, then finally to the EDR2. I've only put a couple hours of music through them so far, but what I've heard I've REALLY enjoyed. Even more balanced and detailed than the HDS1 but with a better soundstage and improved treble extension. Less mid-bass too. I noticed as well that the vents on the bottom of the EDR2's housing, while there, are glued shut (looks deliberate). Pretty sure these are fully sealed. Luckily no driver flex! Woot woot.


 

 Please, let us know when your review is up for the EDR2's! .....Sounds promissing!


----------



## carltonh

I know some people refuse to use EQ. I did for years too, but compare the ZN1 Mini with and without this EQ and it is just night and day difference. I don't think I'd listen to them again without EQ correction. (I know some IEMs don't take EQ correction well, but these do.) Also for reference are a couple other EQ corrections I prefer, and you will notice I like to keep a bass bump, especially subbass.


----------



## Arsis

carltonh said:


> I know some people refuse to use EQ. I did for years too, but compare the ZN1 Mini with and without this EQ and it is just night and day difference. I don't think I'd listen to them again without EQ correction. (I know some IEMs don't take EQ correction well, but these do.) Also for reference are a couple other EQ corrections I prefer, and you will notice I like to keep a bass bump, especially subbass.


Refusing to use EQ is like refusing to put salt on your food. EQ is one of the final steps of mastering. Its a purely subjective process based on the engineers ears and gear. Just like salt & pepper on the table, we have EQ for a reason. Salt to taste and enjoy.


----------



## nemosmknimh

podster said:


> WARNING: You are not allowed to compare Rock's in the KZ thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ooopss I'm sorry... I didn't know.
  
  
   





>


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Please, let us know when your review is up for the EDR2's! .....Sounds promissing! :etysmile:




Will do! I'm enjoying the honeymoon period so far. Seems like KZ's sound engineers took their time with this one.


----------



## omgflyingbanana

Does anyone have an actual LIST of KZ IEM's? I can't seem to find a comprehensive list of the dozens of IEM's they produce.


----------



## omgflyingbanana

Also, I just got the EDR2's from a very generous person here on Head-fi! After listening to them for a bit I like them overall, however they suffer from the same muffled/muddy bass as my Piston 2.


----------



## EISENbricher

arsis said:


> Refusing to use EQ is like refusing to put salt on your food. EQ is one of the final steps of mastering. Its a purely subjective process based on the engineers ears and gear. Just like salt & pepper on the table, we have EQ for a reason. Salt to taste and enjoy.


amen


----------



## carltonh

arsis said:


> Refusing to use EQ is like refusing to put salt on your food. EQ is one of the final steps of mastering. Its a purely subjective process based on the engineers ears and gear. Just like salt & pepper on the table, we have EQ for a reason. Salt to taste and enjoy.


 
 Is your user name a reference to the melodic-tech-death metal band Arsis? They are awesome and I've seen them live.


----------



## Arsis

carltonh said:


> Is your user name a reference to the melodic-tech-death metal band Arsis? They are awesome and I've seen them live.


No. It was the name of my recording studio. Its a musical term.


----------



## Ruben123

Guys isn't the edr2 not just a rebranded edse? Thought I read somewhere here in the thread that they sound the same.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Guys isn't the edr2 not just a rebranded edse? Thought I read somewhere here in the thread that they sound the same.


 
  
 I can assure you they sound very different. It's not just a repainted EDse. It's lighter (new housing material...aluminium most likely), the bottom vents are sealed, it's more neutral, and it sounds tighter, quicker, and way more detailed. Soundstage is also better, and the EDse was no slouch in that department. The EDR2 is a beast.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys isn't the edr2 not just a rebranded edse? Thought I read somewhere here in the thread that they sound the same.
> ...


 
 So, You rate EDR2 as "new flagship of KZ"? How does it compare to 2nd ed ATE-t.b. ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> So, You rate EDR2 as "new flagship of KZ"? How does it compare to 2nd ed ATE-t.b. ?




I didn't say that....I just said it was good. Much better than the EDse, which already held its own quite well vs. newer KZs.

I only have the original ATE, and the R2 is a very different animal. Still love the ATE for its warm sound and lush mids.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> I didn't say that....I just said it was good. Much better than the ESse, which already held its own quite well vs. newer KZs.
> 
> I only have the original ATE, and the R2 is a very different animal. Still love the ATE for its warm sound and lush mids.




Is it more balanced than ed9 or hds1? And more important: is it lighter than original edse?


----------



## EISENbricher

I'd really appreciate if EDR2 has aluminium housing. That way it'll preserve legacy of EDSE (Considering EDR2 as EDSE mk.II) while eliminating some issues. 
  
 My main concerns about EDSE's build were the weight and the  metal used. Especially the part around the nozzle has been producing a lot of green residue... to make it worse I live in humid weather. 
  
 Similarly ED8 and ED9's brass nozzle also produces that residue if kept in humid conditions.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> And more important: is it lighter than original edse?


 


b9scrambler said:


> > It's lighter (new housing material...aluminium most likely)


 
 Ruben123 ...sometimes I wonder do You even read posts(answers) to Your questions
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


> Originally Posted by *EISENbricher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Especially the part around the nozzle has been producing a lot of green residue... to make it worse I live in humid weather.
> Similarly ED8 and ED9's brass nozzle also produces that residue if kept in humid conditions.


 
 Oh my, haven`t used my ED9 for a while and seems like they have "gone green"


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Is it more balanced than ed9 or hds1? And more important: is it lighter than original edse?




It's much lighter. It's balanced, but in a different way. ED9 I found mildly u-shaped even with the brass filters, HDS1 was balanced with a midbass tilt, and the EDR2 is balanced with a treble tilt. I wouldn't call it completely balanced but I would say it is up there as I e of the more balanced KZs.



coil said:


> Ruben123 ...sometimes I wonder do You even read posts(answers) to Your questions:rolleyes:




Aaaand it's responses like this that have kept me pretty quiet on the forums so far this year.


----------



## n0va

carltonh said:


> I know some people refuse to use EQ. I did for years too, but compare the ZN1 Mini with and without this EQ and it is just night and day difference. I don't think I'd listen to them again without EQ correction. (I know some IEMs don't take EQ correction well, but these do.) Also for reference are a couple other EQ corrections I prefer, and you will notice I like to keep a bass bump, especially subbass.




I having an order of ZN1 Mini incoming too.. currently using AT im50. Researched that both sound signatures are different, hopefully it works out well. Any good EQ apps on android to work it with?


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Ruben123 ...sometimes I wonder do You even read posts(answers) to Your questions:rolleyes:
> ...


 
 Sorry if it sounded harsh, I`m tired atm and when ppl don`t read and ppl have to repeat themselves, then it makes me littlebit irritated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 No attack or insult intended towards anyone. Sorry.


----------



## Austrian

I just received my ZN Mini - they sound quite nice out of the box, but can't say more so far, since I'm at work and couldn't even really try to get an ideal seal. Only thing I noticed is one side rattles a bit in very low frequencies. Will see if that improves, I only noticed it during the rattle test, not with music...


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> ED9 I found mildly u-shaped even with the brass filters, HDS1 was balanced with a midbass tilt, and the EDR2 is balanced with a treble tilt. I wouldn't call it completely balanced but I would say it is up there as I e of the more balanced KZs.


 
 According to Your impressions seems that EDR2 isn`t my cup of tea (I`m sensitive to highs and EDSE had "splashy/harsh" treble with with tinybit sibilance in vocals (especially female).
 HDS1 might be good one for me though.


----------



## anticute

Ordered EDR2. Damn you guys..


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Sorry if it sounded harsh, I`m tired atm and when ppl don`t read and ppl have to repeat themselves, then it makes me littlebit irritated
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe I overreacted a bit but the forums have been uncharacteristically negative as of late. 
  


coil said:


> According to Your impressions seems that EDR2 isn`t my cup of tea (I`m sensitive to highs and EDSE had "splashy/harsh" treble with with tinybit sibilance in vocals (especially female).
> HDS1 might be good one for me though.


 
  
 Maybe not, as they are on the brighter side. That said, the splashy treble of the EDse is not present in the EDR2. Haven't noticed any sibilance, yet. They are very clean and sharp. Hopefully that quality sticks around as that was something I loved about the ED10 originally, but over time they "loosened" up so to speak.
  


anticute said:


> Ordered EDR2. Damn you guys..


 
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## Charliemotta

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry if it sounded harsh, I`m tired atm and when ppl don`t read and ppl have to repeat themselves, then it makes me littlebit irritated
> ...


 
 It's only $5 on Ali.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Ruben123 ...sometimes I wonder do You even read posts(answers) to Your questions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well Im just out of bed too (well then) so that should explain a bit too, remembered I read something about EDR2's weight but couldnt find it quickly so thought I just made it up and hadnt been posted yet, my bad.
  
 Also it seems the EDR1 is the EDSE, but now there is the EDR2 which were talking about. Interesting phone, but it is not the only interesting KZ that's not posted much about yet...


----------



## CADCAM

arsis said:


> Refusing to use EQ is like refusing to put salt on your food. EQ is one of the final steps of mastering. Its a purely subjective process based on the engineers ears and gear. Just like salt & pepper on the table, we have EQ for a reason. Salt to taste and enjoy.


 
 I not only don't use an EQ but also don't use salt at the table...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 sometimes I wish I had one though (I actually do) but I think it's a remnant from the days when if you had a nice home system you would never put a EQ in the chain... plus too much sodium is bad for you


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> I'd really appreciate if EDR2 has aluminium housing. That way it'll preserve legacy of EDSE (Considering EDR2 as EDSE mk.II) while eliminating some issues.
> 
> My main concerns about EDSE's build were the weight and the  metal used. Especially the part around the nozzle has been producing a lot of green residue... to make it worse I live in humid weather.
> 
> Similarly ED8 and ED9's brass nozzle also produces that residue if kept in humid conditions.


 

 Since I use the ED9's the most of my KZ's I regularly pull my tips off and clean them of ear wax (I tend to produce that stuff at alarming rates)! Therefore my nozzles get wiped down as well but I understand the tarning of all these models because pot metal tends to deteriorate rapidly if not maintained on a regular basis, aluminum does not suffer the same fate but like wood shells aluminum does have a different sound characteristic to these of the lower grade metals. I'm pretty the ear canal is a nasty place to hang out all the time and probably creates plenty of moisture no matter the outside weather conditions.
  
 Glad you brought this subject up Eisen, I meant to several months ago but got side tracked
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even though most of these KZ's are $10 bargains a little TLC goes a long way to increase lifespan and performance.


----------



## fallrsk

cadcam said:


> I not only don't use an EQ but also don't use salt at the table...
> 
> sometimes I wish I had one though (I actually do) but I think it's a remnant from the days when if you had a nice home system you would never put a EQ in the chain... plus too much sodium is bad for you




I thought that I was the only one! Unlike speakers, imo, headphones are meant to sound different as entrees are supposed to taste different. I don't add salt to my food (it tastes the way it does because it's supposed to) just like how i refuse to eq my phones (they sound how they should)!

That's just how I see it. Also, is the HDS3 not the EDR2? Or do they just look alike.. I thought someone else ended up establishing they were one in the same but I guess not. I'm still waiting on my HDS3 and monks to arrive


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> I thought that I was the only one! Unlike speakers, imo, headphones are meant to sound different as entrees are supposed to taste different. I don't add salt to my food (it tastes the way it does because it's supposed to) just like how i refuse to eq my phones (they sound how they should)!
> 
> That's just how I see it. Also, is the HDS3 not the EDR2? Or do they just look alike.. I thought someone else ended up establishing they were one in the same but I guess not. I'm still waiting on my HDS3 and monks to arrive


 

 Now see fallrsk, I respect both you and Cad's thoughts and feelings about EQ however I tend to fall into the variety is the spice of life camp (not to mention I'm a salt-a-holic
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). For me all reproduced music is just that and for me anyway I know I'm never going to get out what was put in and how it was put in so doctoring, coloration or whatever most want to call it is just a way to get your reproduced music to sound how you want it to sound. The main reason this hobby is so subjective is there are so many variables in every system and with each piece within that system. I truly believe the end of this rainbow can never be reached but we all can come pretty close to what we think the reproduction should sound like to us with enough trial and error
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The main thing is that we keep listening and enjoying our music


----------



## B9Scrambler

fallrsk said:


> I thought that I was the only one! Unlike speakers, imo, headphones are meant to sound different as entrees are supposed to taste different. I don't add salt to my food (it tastes the way it does because it's supposed to) just like how i refuse to eq my phones (they sound how they should)!
> 
> That's just how I see it. Also, is the HDS3 not the EDR2? Or do they just look alike.. I thought someone else ended up establishing they were one in the same but I guess not. I'm still waiting on my HDS3 and monks to arrive




The HDS3 seems to be a revised version of the HDS1, featuring similar styling queues as seen on the ESse and EDR1. Not at all confusing  hahaha


----------



## anticute

b9scrambler said:


> The HDS3 seems to be a revised version of the HDS1, featuring similar styling queues as seen on the ESse and EDR1. Not at all confusing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Let's just hope that the people who have ordered the HDS3 share a consensus that it's better than HDS1 (which I really like), so I don't have to order that as well.......


----------



## Podster

anticute said:


> Let's just hope that the people who have ordered the HDS3 share a consensus that it's better than HDS1 (which I really like), so I don't have to order that as well....... :blink:




For $6.79 on AliEx right now you don't have much to lose


----------



## fallrsk

b9scrambler said:


> The HDS3 seems to be a revised version of the HDS1, featuring similar styling queues as seen on the ESse and EDR1. Not at all confusing  hahaha




Just looked em both up, the only big cosmetic difference is the set of holes on the HDS3 lacking in the EDR2, I guess KZ just said fk it and threw some EDR flavor on the HDS3.


----------



## Ruben123

I dont get it, the manufacturing has to change quite a bit when even only choosing another colour, what about another material? That must cost KZ quite some money, only to have another model to sell?


----------



## CADCAM

So I ordered my S3 in grey with black cable back in 1-2-2016 and never received them. The seller did inform me he sent me one with the same old clear cable. Thoughtful...
  
 So what is the difference between my ED3 Acme Youth (in blue) and the S3 I'm going to hopefully one day receive? How do you distinguish the ED3 A\Y and the S3, especially if the cable is the same? Is it just a matter of body color...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  

  

 They look so good in this color combo IMO


----------



## B9Scrambler

fallrsk said:


> Just looked em both up, the only big cosmetic difference is the set of holes on the HDS3 lacking in the EDR2, I guess KZ just said fk it and threw some EDR flavor on the HDS3.




The EDR2 should be a fair bit larger as well. HDS3 will have a 6mm micro dd vs a more standard driver size on the R2 (I think 8mm...but I could be wrong...Will have to check when I get home from work).


----------



## Arsis

cadcam said:


> I not only don't use an EQ but also don't use salt at the table...
> 
> sometimes I wish I had one though (I actually do) but I think it's a remnant from the days when if you had a nice home system you would never put a EQ in the chain... plus too much sodium is bad for you


Well to each his own. To me the notion that EQ is some kind of evil no no is ridiculous. In most modern recordings, EQ is used in every step of the process. For example, an electric guitar has a tone knob. The guitar amp has tone controls. There's EQ between the microphone and recorder. And again when mixing and mastering. EQ is used on some studio monitors for room correction. My powered monitors have EQ switches on the back for compensation of how close they are to a wall.
 The goal is to pick the guitar, amp, mic, signal chain, studio monitors and room that require as little EQ possible. It's nearly impossible to avoid using it altogether. 
 The same is true for playback systems. The goal should be to pick components that work well together to suit your taste and require as little EQ as possible. But even the best system anyone can afford will have shortcomings and won't compensate for variations from recording to recording. Mixing and mastering engineers are all different and use different monitoring systems. There's no such thing as perfect mix or a perfect headphone or iem. EQ is your friend.

Sorry to stray off topic but as a recording engineer it's a topic I feel strongly about. 


Peace.


----------



## Pulpfiction

Mispost- *wrong forum* - sorry!


----------



## CADCAM

arsis said:


> Well to each his own. To me the notion that EQ is some kind of evil no no is ridiculous. In most modern recordings, EQ is used in every step of the process. For example, an electric guitar has a tone knob. The guitar amp has tone controls. There's EQ between the microphone and recorder. And again when mixing and mastering. EQ is used on some studio monitors for room correction. My powered monitors have EQ switches on the back for compensation of how close they are to a wall.
> The goal is to pick the guitar, amp, mic, signal chain, studio monitors and room that require as little EQ possible. It's nearly impossible to avoid using it altogether.
> The same is true for playback systems. The goal should be to pick components that work well together to suit your taste and require as little EQ as possible. But even the best system anyone can afford will have shortcomings and won't compensate for variations from recording to recording. Mixing and mastering engineers are all different and use different monitoring systems. There's no such thing as perfect mix or a perfect headphone or iem. EQ is your friend.
> 
> ...


 
 Arsis don't hold back like that next time tell us how you really feel...
  
 I'm going to go set up my EQ now


----------



## MAntunes

Hey guys, first time posting.
 I was looking for some new IEM's and I came across this brand.
 I listen to a bit of everything, but mostly heavy metal and hard rock.
 I am not a bass-head, I like a ballanced sound.
 After reading this topic I became indicised between the ED9 and the HDS1, as they seem the most ballanced. Which would be the best for me? And how would they compare to the Xiaomi Hybrid, for example?
  
 Is this the official shop? http://aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.12010308.0.49.NksBv6
  
 Best regards!


----------



## noef

mantunes said:


> Hey guys, first time posting.
> I was looking for some new IEM's and I came across this brand.
> I listen to a bit of everything, but mostly heavy metal and hard rock.
> I am not a bass-head, I like a ballanced sound.
> ...


 
 Go for the S3.


----------



## Podster

mantunes said:


> Hey guys, first time posting.
> I was looking for some new IEM's and I came across this brand.
> I listen to a bit of everything, but mostly heavy metal and hard rock.
> I am not a bass-head, I like a ballanced sound.
> ...


 

 Those are my two of my top three KZ's, the ED9's are heavy chassis and the HDS1 are light weight. The HDS1 for me anyway sounds a little smoother than the 9's but I like the 9's because I don't miss anything with them of course that can also mean wham from a bad media file as well!!! The new ZN1 Mini might be another good choice for those two genre's. You'll have fun with any of them


----------



## MAntunes

noef said:


> Go for the S3.


 
  
 Why those? I though the HDS1 were better.. What are the differences between the HDS1 and the HDS3?


podster said:


> Those are my two of my top three KZ's, the ED9's are heavy chassis and the HDS1 are light weight. The HDS1 for me anyway sounds a little smoother than the 9's but I like the 9's because I don't miss anything with them of course that can also mean wham from a bad media file as well!!! The new ZN1 Mini might be another good choice for those two genre's. You'll have fun with any of them


 
 Thank you for your opinion. I am actually more inclined to the ED9s.


----------



## mccririck

Does anyone else find the ED9 are very microphonic and noisy in your ears?


----------



## fallrsk

mantunes said:


> Why those? I though the HDS1 were better.. What are the differences between the HDS1 and the HDS3?
> Thank you for your opinion. I am actually more inclined to the ED9s.




You misunderstood, the S3 is the ED3 S3 aka the dark gray with black cable version of the ED3. You might also find the Z1/S4/ black ED4 to be to your liking, and the HDS3 and HDS1 seem to be ranked quite equally thus far, hard to tell with these newer models but the S4 ans S3 have got a reputation for being just a smidgen better according to current owners. I'd +1 for the ED9, i'll be ordering the black version when I can afford to lol!


----------



## B9Scrambler

anticute said:


> Ordered EDR2. Damn you guys..


 
  
 I put about 5-6 hours into the EDR2 today and have been a/bing them with the HDS1 since I got home from work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hehehe. Oh yes, I think Head-fi is going to enjoy the EDR2. Can't wait for more of you to get your hands on these.
  
 I highly doubt you will be displeased with the purchase @anticute, but then again, I could be wrong. Looking forward to reading your impressions when they arrive.


----------



## CADCAM

mccririck said:


> Does anyone else find the ED9 are very microphonic and noisy in your ears?


 
 You sure you don't mean the HDS1? I find the HDS1 cable is more prone to microphonics than the ED9's.


----------



## CADCAM

btw finally got my S3 and they do indeed have the same clear cable on every KZ in my collection...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The seller says they are going to send me the grey and black ones, we will see. 
  
 Has anyone received the S3 with a black or blue cable?


----------



## EISENbricher

arsis said:


> Well to each his own. To me the notion that EQ is some kind of evil no no is ridiculous. In most modern recordings, EQ is used in every step of the process. For example, an electric guitar has a tone knob. The guitar amp has tone controls. There's EQ between the microphone and recorder. And again when mixing and mastering. EQ is used on some studio monitors for room correction. My powered monitors have EQ switches on the back for compensation of how close they are to a wall.
> The goal is to pick the guitar, amp, mic, signal chain, studio monitors and room that require as little EQ possible. It's nearly impossible to avoid using it altogether.
> The same is true for playback systems. The goal should be to pick components that work well together to suit your taste and require as little EQ as possible. But even the best system anyone can afford will have shortcomings and won't compensate for variations from recording to recording. Mixing and mastering engineers are all different and use different monitoring systems. There's no such thing as perfect mix or a perfect headphone or iem. EQ is your friend.
> 
> ...


very nicely explained. 

I agree  

Would like to add a little precaution to take while using EQ. If the frequencies are tuned heavily then there is chance of peaking and hence the waveform might get clipped for some frequencies. Just keeping the volume to 60-70% and amping it post EQ would mitigate this issue.


----------



## EISENbricher

mantunes said:


> Hey guys, first time posting.
> I was looking for some new IEM's and I came across this brand.
> I listen to a bit of everything, but mostly heavy metal and hard rock.
> I am not a bass-head, I like a ballanced sound.
> ...



Yup that's the official store.


----------



## kaiteck

arsis said:


> cadcam said:
> 
> 
> > I not only don't use an EQ but also don't use salt at the table...
> ...




EQ is smth that decrease sound quality while at the same time improves sound experience by altering sound to suit one's taste. Whether the benefits will outweigh the loss is heavily depended on how is one skilled in EQ.

Honestly, I'm one of those who recommend people not to use eq often. But then again, I always forgotten to say use eq only when u feel like it.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## lacko

Hi may i ask for an advice? Which one of KZ earphones have the most balanced sound? I have KZ ATE but they are too bassy for me. Thanks

Odoslané z Redmi Note 2 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## CoiL

lacko, which version ATE You have? Probably ATE-S because silver & translucent black 2nd edition ATE`s are not bassy, imo.
 And what is Your source gear?


----------



## EISENbricher

lacko said:


> Hi may i ask for an advice? Which one of KZ earphones have the most balanced sound? I have KZ ATE but they are too bassy for me. Thanks
> 
> Odoslané z Redmi Note 2 pomocou Tapatalku


 
 From the ones I've tried, HDS1 would offer most balanced sound.


----------



## lacko

eisenbricher said:


> lacko said:
> 
> 
> > Hi may i ask for an advice? Which one of KZ earphones have the most balanced sound? I have KZ ATE but they are too bassy for me. Thanks
> ...




Have you tried Rock Zircon earphones aswell? 

Odoslané z Redmi Note 2 pomocou Tapatalku


----------



## EISENbricher

lacko said:


> Have you tried Rock Zircon earphones aswell?
> 
> Odoslané z Redmi Note 2 pomocou Tapatalku


 
 Nope, I haven't. Would have ordered but tight budget lol -_-


----------



## robvagyok

cadcam said:


> btw finally got my S3 and they do indeed have the same clear cable on every KZ in my collection...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 looking forward to your HDS1 - S3 shootout


----------



## Ruben123

robvagyok said:


> looking forward to your HDS1 - S3 shootout




Add edr2 to that lol


----------



## Ruben123

Audiobudget has reviewed both ED3 youth and S3, and found them to be the same (?). They also made frequency response curves that quite back up their claim.
  
 http://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=S3
  
 http://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=ED3Youth
  
 FR curves are nearly identical.


----------



## B9Scrambler

lacko said:


> Hi may i ask for an advice? Which one of KZ earphones have the most balanced sound? I have KZ ATE but they are too bassy for me. Thanks
> 
> Odoslané z Redmi Note 2 pomocou Tapatalku




You should definitely look into the EDR2. I woul have recommended the HDS1, but the EDR2 is probably the more neutral given the lack of mid-bass swell.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> You should definitely look into the EDR2. I woul have recommended the HDS1, but the EDR2 is probably the more neutral given the lack of mid-bass swell.




How would you compare it to Havi B3s? Or ER iems?


----------



## Tozzil

Hey guys! 
First post here and very interested in some nice kz goodies. 

Has anybody already been able to confirm that the z1 equals the s4?
And would you recommend the s4, the s3 or some completely other earphone as best all round kz? 

Kind regards


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> How would you compare it to Havi B3s? Or ER iems?


 
  
 Vs. the B3, the EDR2 does a good job. I'll need to spend more time comparing them, but the EDR2 seems to extend a little deeper into subbass regions and are more prominent in the treble, but mids and general refinement are quite similar. Soundstage of course goes to the B3, but the EDR2 is no slouch.
  
 Not sure what ER iems are, sorry.
  
 I also spent a lot of time last night comparing to many of my other KZs with some of the few live King Crimson recordings I have. In terms of neutrality and general technical competence, the original ED3 was actually the closest. EDR2 is a lot smoother and more refined, and not nearly as bright nor remotely harsh in the treble. It also has a larger and more dynamic soundstage.
  
 The EDR2 makes the HDS1 sound VERY midbassy. The ED9 brass sounds v-shaped and kinda lifeless. That came as a bit of a shock. Haven't compared to the ANV yet.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Vs. the B3, the EDR2 does a good job. I'll need to spend more time comparing them, but the EDR2 seems to extend a little deeper into subbass regions and are more prominent in the treble, but mids and general refinement are quite similar. Soundstage of course goes to the B3, but the EDR2 is no slouch.
> 
> Not sure what ER iems are, sorry.
> 
> ...




You're emptying my wallet  
Good to have a KZ close to the Havi. Of course havis are hard to beat but no one expects $5 to beat already excellent $50 ones. 

Thanks a lot for the impressions. Er is etymotic research: flat sounding and very good isolating iems.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> You're emptying my wallet
> Good to have a KZ close to the Havi. Of course havis are hard to beat but no one expects $5 to beat already excellent $50 ones.
> 
> Thanks a lot for the impressions. Er is etymotic research: flat sounding and very good isolating iems.




For the price the EDR2 holds up surprisingly well. They're definitely not 'better', but they're not shamed either, lol.

I thought that's what you meant. I haven't heard any of their products. Want to though. Was thinking of getting the KIDS model at some point given the price is right and the reputation is great.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> Audiobudget has reviewed both ED3 youth and S3, and found them to be the same (?). They also made frequency response curves that quite back up their claim.
> 
> http://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=S3
> http://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=ED3Youth
> ...


 

 Sorry, but imo audiobudget isn`t accurate/reliable source enough to make end-putting conclusions and it has quite subjective judgement/impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 FR graphs seem to be very close though, between S3 & ED3Y.


----------



## CADCAM

noef said:


> Go for the S3.


 
 Do you own the S3? If so what color is your cable?


----------



## Pulpfiction

I do think the ATE black translucent's I got (3 pairs I received about 1.5 months ago) have quite accented subbass. The rolled off treble (or *sounds* rolled off to me, I never measured them) and lack of sparkle up high may draw the minds eye (ear) more to the lower frequencies too. I don't have personal experience with other KZ IEMs yet but from trawling through the thread recently I think multiple HDS1 owners seem to agree with EISEN, it is regarded as quite a neutral KZ.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> very nicely explained.
> 
> I agree
> 
> ...


 
  

 Reminds me of my days back in the late 70's while stationed in Germany, their was always a staunch group who preferred no EQ and even simple tone controls on pre amp sections of pre amps, integrated amps and even some receivers! You hear of coloration from EQ'ing but as previously mentioned there is no pure recording (even by Jack White)! Music is messaged at every step in the reproduction process to some degree and also mentioned is the fact every recording engineer has his own formula when putting a track down in whatever format. The nail was hit on the head when it was said EQ just help's the individual listener get the sound they like from the recording. OK, enough of what I think
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (image missing)


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Sorry, but imo audiobudget isn`t accurate/reliable source enough to make end-putting conclusions and it has quite subjective judgement/impressions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just received my (supposed) S3 and although they do not have the black cable (which I thought was a feature of the S3) it does sound a bit different from my ED3 Acme Youth.
 They do have slightly different tips on them so that could be causing the difference in sound. I was looking at them and essentially the S3 is the ED3 A\Y with the same lettering, same strain relief, same cable, etc. 
 The only difference physically is the color. I wonder if KZ did slap a new color on the ED3 and market it as an S3.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't know and don't want to make a statement I can't prove but I do wish when we ordered the new S3 on Ali it would at least would come in as pictured. The only reason I ordered was the ad showed the grey body with black cable and I thought it looked so good IMO and then to have it come in with the same cable as every other KZ I own is dissappointing. It looks like I have 2 pair of ED3 Acme now. 
 Let's see what the seller does as they said they have the black cable version and will send me out a replacement...


----------



## Remior

pulpfiction said:


> I do think the ATE black translucent's I got (3 pairs I received about 1.5 months ago) have quite accented subbass. The rolled off treble (or *sounds* rolled off to me, I never measured them) and lack of sparkle up high may draw the minds eye (ear) more to the lower frequencies too. I don't have personal experience with other KZ IEMs yet but from trawling through the thread recently I think multiple HDS1 owners seem to agree with EISEN, it is regarded as quite a neutral KZ.


 
 My ATE have a huge subbass presence. It's a very fun iem to listen. It has very good mids, not recesed at all but the rolled off in treble is very noticiable and it rest a bit of scene and imaging on the sound. I have read people who has made mod on them and opening a little hole on the back (maybe a tiny drill) it makes it perform better on that aspect becoming a more neutral iem... 
  
 KZ ATE is a very good iems for people who love techno, dance, hip hop, etc music.


----------



## EISENbricher

Haha I've read nearly entire Rock Zircon thread but still can't make up my opinion based on that... generally this never happens. I need some reliable information from some members who I believe (won't disclose names)...  The thread was so confusing. I bet this KZ thread is similarly confusing as well though lol.. 
  
BTW I had promised a comparison between Havi B3 / TTPOD T1E/ ZN1mini
  
I ran a quick comparison, results were as expected and no surprise here : 
  

  *Havi B3P1*
 *TTPOD T1E*
 *KZ ZN1mini*
 Lows
 Extended, flat
 Extended, above average qty
 Extended, average qty
 Mids
 Well presented
 Below average
 Good, slightly backward presentation
 Highs
 Well extended
 Extended, bit Sparkly
 Extended
 Soundstage
 Big, Surrounding
 Above average
 Big, Wide
 FR
 Flat
 V
 Mild V
 Signature
 Analytical
 Fun
 Mainstream


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> I ran a quick comparison, results were as expected and no surprise here :
> 
> 
> *Havi B3P1*
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! Very helpful. Like the format. Might have to borrow that for some future comparos


----------



## nolife1123

Hello again peeps, I still haven't made up my mind about which KZ to order, the choice is between ED3, waiting for S3 price to drop/new version to properly show up, HDS1, ED9 and ATE. Although ATE is described as quite bassy over the past few pages, which is not really what I'm looking for, I'm looking for a balanced/neutral, used mainly for metal (mainly power metal, orchestral metal, heavy metal), so I'd prefer if it had an emphasis on that over bass-bloat, as well as on the vocals, decent details and a fair soundstage. A non agressive (or at least not extremely agressive) sound would be great as well!
 The reviews across the past few pages have been mixed up, some call the ATE very bassy, the others not bassy at all, mostly the ED9 came up as balanced with the brass tube, people keep recommending the S3, but it's availability is kinda limited-ish .


----------



## EISENbricher

nolife1123 said:


> Hello again peeps, I still haven't made up my mind about which KZ to order, the choice is between ED3, waiting for S3 price to drop/new version to properly show up, HDS1, ED9 and ATE. Although ATE is described as quite bassy over the past few pages, which is not really what I'm looking for, I'm looking for a balanced/neutral, used mainly for metal (mainly power metal, orchestral metal, heavy metal), so I'd prefer if it had an emphasis on that over bass-bloat, as well as on the vocals, decent details and a fair soundstage. A non agressive (or at least not extremely agressive) sound would be great as well!
> The reviews across the past few pages have been mixed up, some call the ATE very bassy, the others not bassy at all, mostly the ED9 came up as balanced with the brass tube, people keep recommending the S3, but it's availability is kinda limited-ish .


 
 There are a few confusions regarding ATE. First of all there are two ATE models, ATE and ATE-S. Both do sound different. I don't yet have ATE-S so I can't really help. 
  
 Then again, I've heard from users that two ATE models (Silver and Translucent Black) do sound different. I have both and for me they both sound nearly identical. 
  
 Given that, I can assure that there is not too much bass on ATE. There are other KZs like R1, ED8 that can use that term. For ATE I'd say 'Enhanced low end' has a correct vibe.
 ATE's low end is well extended, doing enough justice to sub bass as well. ATE has smooth, fluid kind of bass as opposed to punchy, aggressive bass present in ED10/11.
  
 Orchestral metal sounds beautiful on ATE mainly because of that fluid low end and very good soundstage. Since metal is not mainly focused on vocals I'd advice to go for ATE or ED9. ED9 may sound a bit harsh in harsher songs but otherwise do well. HDS1 is very good, balanced earphone but I fear that the bass guitar/ kick drum sounds would satisfy or not.


----------



## nolife1123

eisenbricher said:


> There are a few confusions regarding ATE. First of all there are two ATE models, ATE and ATE-S. Both do sound different. I don't yet have ATE-S so I can't really help.
> 
> Then again, I've heard from users that two ATE models (Silver and Translucent Black) do sound different. I have both and for me they both sound nearly identical.
> 
> ...


 
 That's quite good, you have me convinced for the ATE (the transparent black non S model one), it costed me 6.99$ on Gearbest thanks to the 30% points discount ! Now I just have to wait for them to arrive.
  
 I'll still likely grab an S3 when it becomes available or the price drops slightly :>.


----------



## fallrsk

lacko said:


> Have you tried Rock Zircon earphones aswell?
> 
> Odoslané z Redmi Note 2 pomocou Tapatalku




I've had the Rock Zircon and it's definitely got a sub bass emphasis but it's decently balanced, but not flat lol. It's got a nice mix of eq.


----------



## Podster

fallrsk said:


> I've had the Rock Zircon and it's definitely got a sub bass emphasis but it's decently balanced, but not flat lol. It's got a nice mix of eq.


 

 It's twu, it's twu!


----------



## CADCAM

OK so no-one has said this yet and no-one has said anything about receiving the S3 with a blue or black cable but I think (and I'm not sure) the black cable has a mic and the clear does not...I have no idea about the blue, it's a mystery. 
 Anyway the seller on Ali has said he is re-sending my S3 and it is the black cable with mic.
 Perhaps the non mic version is using the clear cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I ordered Grey body with black cable originally so I don't feel it is my fault...hopefully someday I'll get a S3 with a black cable in the mail.
  
 Anyone ordering the S3 should message the seller and get details on what the are actually sending out so there's no surprises.


----------



## Remior

My KZ ATE are this ones...

  
 I use it with the biggest silicone tips that came in the package. 
 I have the Vsonic VSD1S, Xiaomi Piston v2, VJJB v1, Philips SHE3590, LG QuadBeat2 and the ATE has the most impresive subbass and punchy bass of all of them... I like a lot the warm too. 
 The most perfect subbass and bass I ever heard it's from my Hifiman HE-500 and ATE is even more impressive in this aspect, less defined or articulate (dynamic sound is nothing like planar sound in this aspect) but very very fun to listen because the amount of bass never take apart de medium frequencys that are very enjoyable too. The only point it's not a goal is that treble is rolled off for me, I need a bit extra o high frequencys and detail to enjoy a better soundstage and detail.
 KZ ATE for 8$ are a very good iem with a very warm signature not V but more like Decrescendo ( ºººº===__)


----------



## B9Scrambler

I've been running the EDR2 with some foam tips (<--link to the ones I'm using) this evening. While the EDR2 has a natural treble tilt, I would hesitate to call them bright. The foamies soften them up a bit though, and bring some emphasis to their subbass which is actually pretty well done. Not as massive as the ED4, but more prominent than the ED3. Isolation with the foams is also excellent, well above average, further supporting my thoughts that these are fully sealed. IF they are open backed like the AliExpress images suggest, I have no idea how they manage to isolate so well.
  
 EDIT: And wow, does Build the Cities by Karma Fields sound amazing on these....geezuz.


----------



## carltonh

Reporting on the HDS3, my 4th KZ IEM to arrive.
  
 At first, I was going to point out how difficult it was to fit. My big ear holes leave a dozen angles it could fit comfortably. I normally require the extra large tips, and using those I was having difficulty finding the proper angle. I would have had a much more negative if I stuck to XL tips. Instead I've switched to mediums pushed in deeper. The HDS3 is relatively flat, but I'm EQing in a bass boost.and over the course of the burn in, I could hear initially that it was taking the bass boost well for bass response, but blast beat heavy metal drums was bleeding into upper registers. But at only 15 hours, that is barely perceptible any more.
  
 What's funny is that, with all my music, I'm not hearing any sibilance, but with B9scrambler's video unboxing of a Brainwavz IEM, I hear sibilance. But don't take that as a concern with only 15 hours burn in.
  
 This seems like the budget version of the Puro IEM500, which I also love, but I won't compare till I've got more hours on the HDS3. The Puro is now $59.99 vs I bought the HDS3 for 6.99 delivered in 11 days from the KZ official store on Aliexpress to Texas. The Puro is a pretty balanced IEM, but it responds massively to EQ and can easily become a bass monster with a bit of EQ. It seems like the HDS3 might be almost as good in that.


----------



## EISENbricher

Thanks, finally some words on HDS3. I am curious whether they sound similar or different to HDS1. 

Mine are still a week away, I shall also post some impressions upon getting those.


----------



## carltonh

I wonder how the HDS3 (or maybe the supposedly near identical HDS1) sounds compared to the Joyroom E107 that a couple of people have been hyping. All are 6 mm micro drivers. I also have a Jlab J6 with a 6mm micro driver and can absolutely confirm that it can't adjust remotely as well to a bass boost as the HDS3. (But it is engineered as a bullet proof IEM, I'll give it that.)


----------



## B9Scrambler

carltonh said:


> What's funny is that, with all my music, I'm not hearing any sibilance, but with B9scrambler's video unboxing of a Brainwavz IEM, *I hear sibilance*. But don't take that as a concern with only 15 hours burn in.


 
  
 That's probably the recording. Everything was done straight through my cellphone. Quality


----------



## CADCAM

cadcam said:


> Just started dispute on my KZ S3 gray with black cable. Ordered 1-2-2016 never received them but seller did inform me the cable is the same old clear cable on every other KZ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just an update on this seller on Aliexpress. I did receive the hp 27 days after ordering but with the old clear cable not the black cable I ordered. Opened a dispute. While I had the dispute open I would get 2-3 messages a day, I agreed to close dispute because the seller agreeing to send a replacement S3 in the color combo I ordered which was the grey with the black cable.
 Now that I've cancelled the dispute I've heard...nothing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Also the S3 I did receive has a hum...I started noticing it during switching cd's or in between tracks. I swapped cables, tried grounding the hp amp to the cd players chassis and plugging in to a different outlet. Still hums...my other KZ's do not. So if I don't hear from them by the end of today I am re opening the dispute and just asking for my money back.
 btw the S3 sounds very good and I would love to hear it without the hum and in the color combo I originally ordered. It seemed to have potential.


----------



## B9Scrambler

CADCAM Seems you're having a rough time with the S3  Sorry to hear it.


----------



## anticute

Sorry to hear that 
  
 Based on experience, my modus operandi in cases like that is to hold off starting a dispute, let the seller extend buyer protection and ship me the replacement. Most sellers are pretty willing to do this as soon as you start mentioning "dispute".. When you have actually started the dispute, things might get tricky, especially if you want a replacement, because of the shipping times.. :/


----------



## EISENbricher

While I don't want to argue, but the official KZ store which I am sure about, doesn't even list certain models. And the another store which also claims to be 'official' but lists stuff from other brands as well. 

I've never bought anything from stores other than official one, after a few bad experiences and fruitless dispute resolution. 

Whereas the KZ store has always had best cust support. They even did resend my ED8 that were lost by courier once.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I wouldnt worry too much about whats offered on the Official KZ store (KZ product only one). Even their home website only lists a small sample of their entire lineup.


----------



## mccririck

What do you guys use your KZ earphones with? I use mine with my Nokia Lumia 920 and my Sansa Clip mp3 player.


----------



## EISENbricher

mccririck said:


> What do you guys use your KZ earphones with? I use mine with my Nokia Lumia 920 and my Sansa Clip mp3 player.


Using mine with Xduoo X2


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Just an update on this seller on Aliexpress. I did receive the hp 27 days after ordering but with the old clear cable not the black cable I ordered. Opened a dispute. While I had the dispute open I would get 2-3 messages a day, I agreed to close dispute because the seller agreeing to send a replacement S3 in the color combo I ordered which was the grey with the black cable.
> Now that I've cancelled the dispute I've heard...nothing. :angry_face:
> Also the S3 I did receive has a hum...I started noticing it during switching cd's or in between tracks. I swapped cables, tried grounding the hp amp to the cd players chassis and plugging in to a different outlet. Still hums...my other KZ's do not. So if I don't hear from them by the end of today I am re opening the dispute and just asking for my money back.
> btw the S3 sounds very good and I would love to hear it without the hum and in the color combo I originally ordered. It seemed to have potential.




That blows Cad


----------



## bhazard

What is the newest, best KZ of choice? Haven't kept up with the releases lately.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bhazard said:


> What is the newest, best KZ of choice? Haven't kept up with the releases lately.




I'll throw these out there, cause they're bad@$$

EDR2


----------



## carltonh

Anyone notice that the LZ brand uses the same black box with purple lettering that KZ has been using on many of their recent packages? Note near the bottom of this page where they show the box:  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Easy-New-Original-LZ-Z03A-Hifi-Stereo-Dynamic-In-ear-Earbuds-Heave-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earphones/519064_32600913773.html
  
 Plus, L is just the next letter up after K. Both coincidences seem too much together to be chance. I think LZ is intended to be a higher market brand above KZ by some of the same people, whether or not a completely separate business.


----------



## carltonh

Really spending more time with the HDS3 today and think it might be my favorite KZ of the 4 I have so far. I think it sounds like what everyone describes the Hifiman RE400, but without dropping off the subbass. It is reasonably balanced, but midrange is slightly more forward, and it is making me think this is my preference above V shaped IEMs. Compared to the Piston 3, it makes it obvious the Piston 3 is V shaped with less midrange,  The HDS3 might only have equal subbass, but I don't feel the need to EQ boost it most of the time on the HDS3. And while I formerly liked the treble on the Piston 3, in comparison it sounds a bit splatty.
  
 So the HDS3 compared to the Puro IEM500: the HDS3 is louder but not a whole lot. Treble and bass extension is not as extreme as the Puro even if still really good. I can feel a bass test plenty down to 20 HZ with the HDS3, but not below that. With the Puro, I feel it down to 11 Hz. The HDS3 is also warmer. If I say the Puro is flat, then the HDS3 boosts subbass, midbass, midrange, but not upper midrange or treble, evenly a couple Db in comparison.
  
 I don't use amps to test or compare as I'm still happy with my Thinkpad and Galaxy Note 3 as sources.


----------



## fb1907

which gives the highest audio and bass ?

Ed9?


----------



## fb1907

Up to $ 12
What is most admirable model ?


----------



## Podster

fb1907 said:


> which gives the highest audio and bass ?
> 
> Ed9?




Is this a loaded question I may be slightly biased in this one if you've read my replies in this thread


----------



## sgl54

podster said:


> Is this a loaded question I may be slightly biased in this one if you've read my replies in this thread



Slightly biased? Only slightly? But I tend to agree because I'm only subtly biased myself. So that makes two votes.


----------



## EISENbricher

fb1907 said:


> which gives the highest audio and bass ?
> 
> Ed9?


 
 ED10 and ED11 fit the bill. By highest audio I assume you mean greater sensitivity, more output even with fewer volume ticks. Those are among the most aggressive KZs and pack a massive bass punch as well. 
  
 Second choice would be ZN1 mini, it's also quite sensitive and has well extended bass.
  


bhazard said:


> What is the newest, best KZ of choice? Haven't kept up with the releases lately.


 
 Seems like they have release quite a number of newer models. I've got ZN1 mini, ZS1 and HDS1 among those.
 ZS1 is your typical sports earphone with boosted bass and behind the ear fit.
 HDS1 is nicely balanced among frequencies and quite details. I'd say it'll do justice for most genres.
 ZN1 mini has ATE like smooth yet detailed sound and larger, 3D like soundstage. 
  
 I'd say HDS1 and ZN1mini are among best KZ made till date (along with ED9 and ATE, in my opinion).


----------



## B9Scrambler

EISENbricher Just wait till you try the EDR2. It is stellar!


----------



## zzhead

eisenbricher said:


> ED10 and ED11 fit the bill. By highest audio I assume you mean greater sensitivity, more output even with fewer volume ticks. Those are among the most aggressive KZs and pack a massive bass punch as well.
> 
> Second choice would be ZN1 mini, it's also quite sensitive and has well extended bass.
> 
> ...


 

 +1. Couldn't agree more. ATE,HDS1+3 ZN1 and ROCK ZIRGONS are my current rotation in totally random order. ED11 I could happily have lived without. ED9 has lost its rotation. Too much fiddling around and modding perhaps?  My fingers just hover past it in the mornings. I tend to trust them. Never subscribed to the hype anyways. Regarding the "new'' kid n the block EDR2 ...hmmm the same sticky cable the same jack.. the same ...the same even HDS3 got a brush over. What is happening with the KZ people I wonder. I cannot believe that they do not read this site.


----------



## zzhead

b9scrambler said:


> @EISENbricher Just wait till you try the EDR2. It is stellar


 
  
 Hi
 Do you say they have better bass than Zirgons??
 tnx


----------



## Pulpfiction

*mispost* grrr SORRY!


----------



## B9Scrambler

zzhead said:


> Hi
> Do you say they have better bass than Zirgons??
> tnx




Haven't tried the Zircons. Bass is excellent, but they're a more neutral sounding earphone. The Zircon should be a very different animal.


----------



## B9Scrambler

zzhead said:


> Regarding the "new'' kid n the block EDR2 ...hmmm the same sticky cable the same jack.. the same ...the same even HDS3 got a brush over. What is happening with the KZ people I wonder. I cannot believe that they do not read this site.




I'm fine with it. Keeps costs down using the same materials over and over. I'm fine with that. If the quality of the cable and Jack, etc. were crap, then I'd have a problem.


----------



## Pulpfiction

I also don't get the brown transparent cable hate so much honestly.. It *is* pretty springy, but apart from that I have no gripes with it. Maybe my experience is better due to me just using ATE, I don't know. I find the soft rubber coating really nice to the touch (and behind the ear too) and I think it looks great. It doesn't seem to have a bad memory effect either? I'm actually slightly worried about the thick cable on the ZN1 Mini that's on its way over, that I may find it less comfy or that it won't wrap over the ear as easily (or have more of a problem staying put).


----------



## B9Scrambler

pulpfiction said:


> I also don't get the brown transparent cable hate so much honestly.. It *is* pretty springy, but apart from that I have no gripes with it. Maybe my experience is better due to me just using ATE, I don't know. I find the soft rubber coating really nice to the touch (and behind the ear too) and I think it looks great. It doesn't seem to have a bad memory effect either? I'm actually slightly worried about the thick cable on the ZN1 Mini that's on its way over, that I may find it less comfy or that it won't wrap over the ear as easily (or have more of a problem staying put).


 
  
 Yes! KZ's cable are good. Some are sticky, and others are springy, but in general they are quality cables. I still think the cable on the EDSE is the best cable on any KZ to date. It looks like other KZ cables, but it's not sticky and doesn't hold memory at all. It's fantastic. I wish they would put that cable on all KZs to be honest.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> EISENbricher Just wait till you try the EDR2. It is stellar!



Yup, it's on my list, might get one soon. 



zzhead said:


> +1. Couldn't agree more. ATE,HDS1+3 ZN1 and ROCK ZIRGONS are my current rotation in totally random order. ED11 I could happily have lived without. ED9 has lost its rotation. Too much fiddling around and modding perhaps?  My fingers just hover past it in the mornings. I tend to trust them. Never subscribed to the hype anyways. Regarding the "new'' kid n the block EDR2 ...hmmm the same sticky cable the same jack.. the same ...the same even HDS3 got a brush over. What is happening with the KZ people I wonder. I cannot believe that they do not read this site.



KZ people read this, example is ZN1 mini. People demanded to release ZN1 without amp box and they released it! 

Imo though, I like KZ cables. Yep some may be sticky but they do last. 

I have other costlier earphones like Sennheisers, Havi B3, Zero audio whose cables are deteriorated and may be unusable soon. While my first ever KZ purchase (EDSE) which is about equal age as of them, has cable which still looks and feels like new.


----------



## anticute

b9scrambler said:


> Yes! KZ's cable are good. Some are sticky, and others are springy, but in general they are quality cables. I still think the cable on the EDSE is the best cable on any KZ to date. It looks like other KZ cables, but it's not sticky and doesn't hold memory at all. It's fantastic. I wish they would put that cable on all KZs to be honest.


 

 This. That cable is brilliant IMO. When I ordered others and saw that the cable looked similar, I thought that was great. The sticky one is a lot more microphonic and generally annoying, unfortunately..


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> I'd say HDS1 and ZN1mini are among best KZ made till date (along with ED9 and ATE, in my opinion).


 
 Ok, seems You convinced me into getting ZN1mini also (after getting HDS1)...  *-.-  *
  
  


b9scrambler said:


> @EISENbricher Just wait till you try the EDR2. It is stellar!


 

 And You! Shame on You!... *-.-*


----------



## HiFiChris

b9scrambler said:


> Yes! KZ's cable are good. Some are sticky, and others are springy, but in general they are quality cables.


 

 +1
  
 Not only the cables, also the connectors and in-ear bodies are quality products. I know many IEMs from the "big" companies up to $150 that don't reach KZ's cable and build quality.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Ok, seems You convinced me into getting ZN1mini also (after getting HDS1)...  *-.- *
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What!? I'm innocent. Just an innocent baby lamb 0_0 I've done nothing....


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Ok, seems You convinced me into getting ZN1mini also (after getting HDS1)...  *-.-  *
> 
> 
> 
> And You! Shame on You!... *-.-*


 

 LOL, we're all guilty. Head-Fi = Zero $$$$


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Ok, seems You convinced me into getting ZN1mini also (after getting HDS1)...  *-.-  *
> 
> 
> 
> And You! Shame on You!... *-.-*


 
 Haha go go CoiL


----------



## mimuweb

Hi guys. I'm looking for a replacement for my beloved TTPOD T1-E, with similar specs, but with better mids, controlled trebles and good fit. Which KZ do you suggest me? Any reputable seller? Thanks


----------



## EISENbricher

mimuweb said:


> Hi guys. I'm looking for a replacement for my beloved TTPOD T1-E, with similar specs, but with better mids, controlled trebles and good fit. Which KZ do you suggest me? Any reputable seller? Thanks


 
 I'd recommend this store, it's the KZs own store : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.10010108.0.89.9RP2UF
  
 BTW coming from TTPOD T1E, look out for
  
 ZN1mini : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone/1358152_32444083695.html
  
 and 
  
 ED9 : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED9-Super-Bowl-Tuning-Nozzles-T-Shaped-Driver-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With/1358152_32372852938.html
  
 Both of these improve on T1E's mids. ZN1mini has bigger soundstage while ED9 offers you versatility by providing 2 sound signatures. ED9's highs resemble with T1Es. 
  
 Go for ZN1mini if you prefer smoother sound signature and ED9 if you want crisper sound.


----------



## mimuweb

eisenbricher said:


> I'd recommend this store, it's the KZs own store : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.10010108.0.89.9RP2UF
> 
> BTW coming from TTPOD T1E, look out for
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot sir. Difficult decision... I hate sibilances and i prefer good mids and bass over crisper trebles. I'm intrigued about 2 sound signatures of ED9. Any does it have micro?


----------



## 1clearhead

These are called the *KZ-ATN *version of the *KZ-ZN1*.
  
 The seller (in Chinese) claims it has better resolution and clarity!
  
*Chinese: *
 天大消息！！！
     货币贬值.出口外贸版本.年底含泪亏本清仓.最高性价比.史无前例.超粗线材.提水都不是问题比普通线材粗一倍
 双单元.出口外贸版的.ATN双单元.有史以来最高性价比的耳机.超粗线材.
 大声场 现场版音效 重低音不轰头.纯净人声.解析度清晰
  
*English Translation:*
 Big news ! ! !
     Currency depreciation. export version. end of the tearful loss to clear. the best value. unprecedented. ultra coarse wire. water is not a problem than normal wire rough 1 time
 Double snap. export Edition. ATN double cells. best value headphones ever. ultra thick wire.
 Live out loud sound sub woofer does not bang heads. pure vocals. resolution clear.
  
 I'm going to get me the ATN version since it's on sale on taobao in China. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.8.tA4y8M&scm=1007.10009.21136.100200300000001&id=525362602762&pvid=501a9263-dbe8-4b78-b1c2-c39b6f246776


----------



## kaiteck

whats the difference between zn1 mini and zs1?


----------



## 1clearhead

kaiteck said:


> whats the difference between zn1 mini and zs1?


 
  
 I think, if you go several or more pages back EISENbricher (page 611) and HiFiChris (page 613) explains it best by comparing both of them.


----------



## EISENbricher

mimuweb said:


> Thanks a lot sir. Difficult decision... I hate sibilances and i prefer good mids and bass over crisper trebles. I'm intrigued about 2 sound signatures of ED9. Any does it have micro?


 
 I think ZN1mini would be more intriguing for you as the bass packs enough punch and mids are definitely better than T1E. ED9 in some cases show sparkly highs. There are loads of modding had been done by thread members which include use of alternative damping materials inside nozzles which you may try.


----------



## mimuweb

eisenbricher said:


> I think ZN1mini would be more intriguing for you as the bass packs enough punch and mids are definitely better than T1E. ED9 in some cases show sparkly highs. There are loads of modding had been done by thread members which include use of alternative damping materials inside nozzles which you may try.




Finally i've bought the ED9.It has mic and i like the dual sound signatures . Thanks


----------



## crabdog

Copied this from my post on the help and recommendations section because it's already been pushed way down with only 7 views:
  
  Hi I recently bought some KZ ed9 but there seems to be a problem with the left side. The sound is working fine but if I move my finger over the metal casing I get this electrical humming noise and sometimes I get like little mini electric shocks in my ear. This happens when using with my laptop and my Note 5 (though only when charging).
  
 Is there a way to fix this or do I have to accept that I got a faulty pair? It sucks because I love the sound they produce and want to continue using them.


----------



## CoiL

sounds like grounding/static problems to me


----------



## EISENbricher

crabdog said:


> Copied this from my post on the help and recommendations section because it's already been pushed way down with only 7 views:
> 
> 
> Hi I recently bought some KZ ed9 but there seems to be a problem with the left side. The sound is working fine but if I move my finger over the metal casing I get this electrical humming noise and sometimes I get like little mini electric shocks in my ear. This happens when using with my laptop and my Note 5 (though only when charging).
> ...



My apartment's grounding suck and I get horrible shocks while using ED9. 

You may correct the root cause (grounding /earthing) or opt for plastic bodied earphone. 

About the imbalance and humming issue.. If it is happening only while charging then with corrected ground this will go away.


----------



## crabdog

Will see what I can do, thanks.


----------



## vencaxxx

Hi, i am looking for new headphones. Can you reccomend to me some from KZ? I used Xiaomi pistones 3 and hybrid and best sound would be between these two. Is KZ ATN (zn1) good choice?


----------



## crabdog

Well I only own the KZ ED9 but I would definitely recommend them if you like a nice warm sound. I find them very comfortable and they're a "fun" phone. I would warn people though that the brown cable (without mic) is awful - kinda sticky feeling, it tangles easily and suffers terribly from microphony. If you plan to do a lot of walking with these I'd suggest you get something else. However if you want to use them in transit or sitting down they're really good.


----------



## CoiL

...or just open up ED9 and change the cable for aftermarket one


----------



## vencaxxx

I need it mostly for music listening in my work by computer. So cable would be not an issue for me. Is somewhere any info or comparison between sound signature of some kz phones?


----------



## EISENbricher

vencaxxx said:


> Hi, i am looking for new headphones. Can you reccomend to me some from KZ? I used Xiaomi pistones 3 and hybrid and best sound would be between these two. Is KZ ATN (zn1) good choice?



Yep, ZN1mini would be a good choice. 

Coming from P3 ED9 and HDS1 would also be very good choices.


----------



## vencaxxx

And any reccomendation where to buy? Because Aliexpress is full of KZ earphones with very different prizes. And f.e. model ZS1 is not listed on official KZ site, knows someone why? Is on the market any fake KZ headphones? I found link from some previous post http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZN1-Super-Bass-in-Ear-Music-Earphone-without-Mic-Dj-Headphone-Stereo-Earplug-Noise-Isolating/32573278912.html is this seller verified?


----------



## EISENbricher

vencaxxx said:


> And any reccomendation where to buy? Because Aliexpress is full of KZ earphones with very different prizes. And f.e. model ZS1 is not listed on official KZ site, knows someone why? Is on the market any fake KZ headphones? I found link from some previous post http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZN1-Super-Bass-in-Ear-Music-Earphone-without-Mic-Dj-Headphone-Stereo-Earplug-Noise-Isolating/32573278912.html is this seller verified?




Go for this seller and have no regrets, this is KZs own outlet: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_145451555352013&key=416b062f03da6d676366e939c30f24f0&libId=ik70zy9q0100pdn5000MAeaz8bt7t&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Ft%2F698148%2Fknowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread%2F9390&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fstore%2Fproduct%2FKZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone%2F1358152_32444083695.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Ft%2F698148%2Fknowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread%2F9405&title=Knowledge%20Zenith%20(KZ)%20impressions%20thread&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fstore%2Fproduct%2FKZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-an...&loAsUuid=ik70zz7q-737c1892-772e-44ad-a8f8-885f0d0a754e


----------



## vencaxxx

Ok thanks


----------



## fallrsk

Well well, the HDS3 have arrived! These 3/4 weeks flew by, I actually was expecting my monks to arrive (the're at the local post office or on their way to my home currently) and HOLY MICRO. These are TINY! I'm flabbergasted, and there is nothing small about the sound.. Thank god I decided to jump on the HDS wagon at the right time, these are sweet! The *BLACK*, yes a *BLACK,* cable is beautifully made and the new y-splitter mic is a nice, new addition to the KZ line. I actually really prefer this new, slimmer L plug compared to the beefy ones with the KZ logo imprint. 
  
 As far as the sound OOTB, it's got ED4 written all over it with the slightly shrill highs toned down and the mids seem a little sucked out coming immediately from my HD598's.. Maybe a little sucked out compared to the ED4 but I think it's due to the calmer treble allowing you to actually hear the mids a bit clearer. I'm definitely impressed, these are definitely keepers!
  
One complaint: no wax guard screen.. C'mon KZ. It's there. Whoops.


----------



## chavez

fallrsk said:


> Well well, the HDS3 have arrived! These 3/4 weeks flew by, I actually was expecting my monks to arrive (the're at the local post office or on their way to my home currently) and HOLY MICRO. These are TINY! I'm flabbergasted, and there is nothing small about the sound.. Thank god I decided to jump on the HDS wagon at the right time, these are sweet! The *BLACK*, yes a *BLACK,* cable is beautifully made and the new y-splitter mic is a nice, new addition to the KZ line. I actually really prefer this new, slimmer L plug compared to the beefy ones with the KZ logo imprint.
> 
> As far as the sound OOTB, it's got ED4 written all over it with the slightly shrill highs toned down and the mids seem a little sucked out coming immediately from my HD598's.. Maybe a little sucked out compared to the ED4 but I think it's due to the calmer treble allowing you to actually hear the mids a bit clearer. I'm definitely impressed, these are definitely keepers!
> 
> One complaint: no wax guard screen.. C'mon KZ.


 
 Pics or it didnt happen.


----------



## fallrsk

chavez ask and thou shalt receive!

Inb4 iPhone camera ****tiness, sorry amigos.


----------



## 1clearhead

vencaxxx said:


> Hi, i am looking for new headphones. Can you reccomend to me some from KZ? I used Xiaomi pistones 3 and hybrid and best sound would be between these two. *Is KZ ATN (zn1) good choice?*


 
  
 KZ-ATN is a revamped version of the ZN1. In the meantime, I can' t give any information on them, since I, myself am waiting for them so I can listen and test them.


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> KZ-ATN is a revamped version of the ZN1. In the meantime, I can' t give any information on them, since I, myself am waiting for them so I can listen and test them.


 

 How many times can they revamp these babies
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I mean the ZS1 was a revamp (ampless) model of the original ZN1, then we get the real revamped ZN1 in the ZN1 Mini and now what is the major revamping to name it ATN??


----------



## fallrsk

Also, I take back the statement about the HDS3 lacking a wax guard screen. I thought it was the inner tube for the ear canal but it's indeed a screen.


----------



## 1clearhead

podster said:


> How many times can they revamp these babies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have no idea. This is what KZ does all the time. I just go with the flow and check them out afterwards.


----------



## CADCAM

Anyone familiar with using tracking numbers on Ali? My seller shipped a replacement for my S3 and only messaged a tracking number, I presume its a tracking number.
 What do you do with it? Doesn't seem to work for me...


----------



## EISENbricher

I am not entirely convinced with the ATN being ZN1 revamp...  Lot of times we've seen resellers rebranding KZ and also changing model numbers. 
  
 Doesn't mean I totally disagree though, but there is no reliable source of information which actually bothers me. KZ have their own website but seems like it doesn't get much love.


----------



## EISENbricher

cadcam said:


> Anyone familiar with using tracking numbers on Ali? My seller shipped a replacement for my S3 and only messaged a tracking number, I presume its a tracking number.
> What do you do with it? Doesn't seem to work for me...


 
 Yep, use 17track.com to track those. Paste that number in middle box (global tracking). It may take a while before the tracking starts to show details though...  In some cases it may go up to 10 days.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> I am not entirely convinced with the ATN being ZN1 revamp...  Lot of times we've seen resellers rebranding KZ and also changing model numbers.
> 
> Doesn't mean I totally disagree though, but there is no reliable source of information which actually bothers me. KZ have their own website but seems like it doesn't get much love.


 

 EISEN, you have taken some awesome shots in you eyecandy inventory
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You know I love this one


----------



## chavez

fallrsk said:


> @chavez ask and thou shalt receive!
> 
> Inb4 iPhone camera ****tiness, sorry amigos.


 
  
 Nice cable.Idk about that jack, I like EDSE/ED2 one a lot.


----------



## fallrsk

carltonh said:


> Really spending more time with the HDS3 today and think it might be my favorite KZ of the 4 I have so far. I think it sounds like what everyone describes the Hifiman RE400, but without dropping off the subbass. It is reasonably balanced, but midrange is slightly more forward, and it is making me think this is my preference above V shaped IEMs. Compared to the Piston 3, it makes it obvious the Piston 3 is V shaped with less midrange,  The HDS3 might only have equal subbass, but I don't feel the need to EQ boost it most of the time on the HDS3. And while I formerly liked the treble on the Piston 3, in comparison it sounds a bit splatty.
> 
> So the HDS3 compared to the Puro IEM500: the HDS3 is louder but not a whole lot. Treble and bass extension is not as extreme as the Puro even if still really good. I can feel a bass test plenty down to 20 HZ with the HDS3, but not below that. With the Puro, I feel it down to 11 Hz. The HDS3 is also warmer. If I say the Puro is flat, then the HDS3 boosts subbass, midbass, midrange, but not upper midrange or treble, evenly a couple Db in comparison.
> 
> I don't use amps to test or compare as I'm still happy with my Thinkpad and Galaxy Note 3 as sources.


 
 Hey carlton, do you have any balance issues on your pair at all, as it seems my left ear bud is about 20% of the right bud or it's just my ears as I feel the same thing with all my phones.


----------



## carltonh

fallrsk said:


> Hey carlton, do you have any balance issues on your pair at all, as it seems my left ear bud is about 20% of the right bud or it's just my ears as I feel the same thing with all my phones.


 

 No, but maybe your ear canals are different sizes and a micro-size IEM is making it more obvious. You might need to try different tips on each ear.


----------



## carltonh

Anyone know anything about the KZ-DS? An Audio Technica clone? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DS-Noise-Cancelling-Professional-Hifi-Deep-Bass-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Stereo-Music-Mobile-Headphone/32388815504.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.LCQLlX&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10016_10005_10006_10003_10004_401_9999,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6450&btsid=0142434f-91a3-44f9-b6e8-f71332b41735


----------



## wastan

carltonh said:


> Anyone know anything about the KZ-DS? An Audio Technica clone? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DS-Noise-Cancelling-Professional-Hifi-Deep-Bass-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Stereo-Music-Mobile-Headphone/32388815504.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.LCQLlX&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10016_10005_10006_10003_10004_401_9999,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6450&btsid=0142434f-91a3-44f9-b6e8-f71332b41735




That looks nothing like any KZ I've ever seen; alien all the way down to the 3.5mms plug.


----------



## B9Scrambler

carltonh said:


> Anyone know anything about the KZ-DS? An Audio Technica clone? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-DS-Noise-Cancelling-Professional-Hifi-Deep-Bass-Heatshrinked-In-Ear-Stereo-Music-Mobile-Headphone/32388815504.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.LCQLlX&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10016_10005_10006_10003_10004_401_9999,searchweb201560_8,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6450&btsid=0142434f-91a3-44f9-b6e8-f71332b41735




Recommended you take a pass on that one. It's an old KZ. The build/material quality is quite low, and the cable is VERY microphonic. Sound is alright, but KZ has come a long way since then.


----------



## fallrsk

carltonh said:


> No, but maybe your ear canals are different sizes and a micro-size IEM is making it more obvious. You might need to try different tips on each ear.


 
 Weird. I've tried tip rolling, I think I got a dud. I just received monks and there's no difference in gain between each ear and the same goes for my HD598's.. My ED4's might be a little unbalanced too.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Recommended you take a pass on that one. It's an old KZ. The build/material quality is quite low, and the cable is VERY microphonic. Sound is alright, but KZ has come a long way since then.




Good to know B9, I always thought they were cool looking though


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> EISEN, you have taken some awesome shots in you eyecandy inventory
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey thanks bro! : ) Even KZ had used one of the EDSE's pic that I took on their product page in official Ali shop.
 I wish I had an actual camera though... those all snapped with my phone.
  
 Btw today I took some ED11 pics that I was planning since long time, they look real beauty compared to ED10 with that golden back plate and black ring
  
 Have a look... as usual right click, open in new tab for full resolution glory


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Hey thanks bro! : ) Even KZ had used one of the EDSE's pic that I took on their product page in official Ali shop.
> I wish I had an actual camera though... those all snapped with my phone.
> 
> Btw today I took some ED11 pics that I was planning since long time, they look real beauty compared to ED10 with that golden back plate and black ring
> ...


 

 Why yes, yes they do
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 What camera are you using?


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Why yes, yes they do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lovely!
  
 I'm using my Gionee E7 smartphone's 16MP camera.


----------



## wastan

b9scrambler said:


> Recommended you take a pass on that one. It's an old KZ. The build/material quality is quite low, and the cable is VERY microphonic. Sound is alright, but KZ has come a long way since then.




How long ago did that one come out?


----------



## carltonh

Ok, what the heck KZ is this? Old or new? They aren't making fake KZs yet, are they?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-KZ-Earphones-KZ-IE80-IE-80-Super-Bass-Metal-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earbuds/32356607835.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_6,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_401_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6452&btsid=6278b44c-1a25-4dd1-a395-fab28c8c50db


----------



## EISENbricher

carltonh said:


> Ok, what the heck KZ is this? Old or new? They aren't making fake KZs yet, are they?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-KZ-Earphones-KZ-IE80-IE-80-Super-Bass-Metal-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earbuds/32356607835.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_6,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_401_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6452&btsid=6278b44c-1a25-4dd1-a395-fab28c8c50db



Very old one. Don't bother about it.


----------



## kaiteck

carltonh said:


> Ok, what the heck KZ is this? Old or new? They aren't making fake KZs yet, are they?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-KZ-Earphones-KZ-IE80-IE-80-Super-Bass-Metal-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earbuds/32356607835.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_6,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_401_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6452&btsid=6278b44c-1a25-4dd1-a395-fab28c8c50db




KZ itself is a fake brand. All of its models are copy of some sort. However, there's nothing that says a fake can't rival the real thing. In its deliberate attempt to be real, someday it’ll be more real than the real thing.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## kaiteck

carltonh said:


> Ok, what the heck KZ is this? Old or new? They aren't making fake KZs yet, are they?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-KZ-Earphones-KZ-IE80-IE-80-Super-Bass-Metal-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earbuds/32356607835.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_6,searchweb201644_4_505_506_503_504_301_502_10014_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_401_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6452&btsid=6278b44c-1a25-4dd1-a395-fab28c8c50db




oh and forgot to mention, dun bother with that ie80.....

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## kiyoshikiyomizu

I'm all in for mid-range and soundstage. Any advices so far guys, and $50 down, KZ brand. Thank you


----------



## CoiL

kiyoshikiyomizu said:


> I'm all in for mid-range and soundstage. Any advices so far guys, and $50 down, KZ brand. Thank you


 

 2nd edition ATE translucent black (not S version). And probably ATN (ZN1mini) too but I personally don`t have it, yet.


----------



## kiyoshikiyomizu

Thank about the advice. This is the one you mentioned ?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone/32444083695.html


----------



## CoiL

ATE 2nd edition:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-Stereo-Earphones-Super/32350895239.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.21.zrFkuJ&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_2_505_506_503_504_502_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6451&btsid=c1a0a037-4671-43a8-9b33-a96383f1cd77
  
 ZN1mini/ATN:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZN1-Super-Bass-in-Ear-Music-Earphone-without-Mic-Dj-Headphone-Stereo-Earplug-Noise-Isolating/32573278912.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.TsKLaY&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_2_505_506_503_504_502_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6451&btsid=f8bc3c77-615f-4d6a-ae6a-f705de98eb78
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Psychic-ZN1-Smart-Tunable-Dual-Driver-In-ear-Headphones-with-Built-in-Amplifier-and-Microphone/32444083695.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.Denzyu&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_2_505_506_503_504_502_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6451&btsid=4f37fd34-47ae-43d8-9cae-9cb953f7f6c2


----------



## dbhai

So the same seller or probably only seller with KZ S3 on Aliexpress now listed KZ S4 as well 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S4-mobile-phone-headset-ear-headset-wire-with-wheat-call-HIFI-subwoofer-universal-headset-earplugs/32605863556.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.SvZMtB&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_3,searchweb201644_5_505_506_503_504_502_10001_10002_10016_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10004_10009_10008_9999,searchweb201560_2,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6451&btsid=ad61fd71-9cd5-4ef5-8cd5-0f87f2832f3f

 Both S3 and S4 are to reach to me soon, ordered from TaoBao via MisterTao, just hoping them to be as discussed


----------



## vencaxxx

Please, can someone (EISENbricher) shortly describe differences of sound between some KZ phones? I cannot decide which will be better for me. I am chosing between ATE, ATN/ZN1/ZS1, ED4, ED11, ED9, HDS1. ATE and ATN looks big and I prefer smaller earphones...


----------



## crabdog

coil said:


> ...or just open up ED9 and change the cable for aftermarket one


 
 I'm not that handy and don't even require the necessary equipment.


----------



## Zeebit

Do any of the KZ earphones come stock with their blue whirlwind tips? Has anyone tried them and how are they?


----------



## EISENbricher

vencaxxx said:


> Please, can someone (EISENbricher) shortly describe differences of sound between some KZ phones? I cannot decide which will be better for me. I am chosing between ATE, ATN/ZN1/ZS1, ED4, ED11, ED9, HDS1. ATE and ATN looks big and I prefer smaller earphones...


 
*ATE* for smooth, slight dark-ish sound with beautiful mids (hence vocals) and above average soundstage.
*ZS1* for big sub bass and punchy bass (in short bass oriented phone), cool as a sports earphone. 
*ZN1mini* looks and feels like ZS1 but with big sound difference. ZN1 sounds mature, mellow and detailed with big 3D soundstage and arguably balanced sound.
*ED4 *don't have it... 
*ED11 *for most aggressive sound you can get from KZ, high sensitivity and most satisfying bass (it's fluid, has big rumble in sub region and quite punch in midbass region) and reasonable mids and higs.
*ED9 *versatile, two sound sigs and with accurate combination of filter and tips you can get most out of this one. Only shortcoming is that it has slightly sparkly highs which 
*HDS1 *nicely balanced sound, does justice for most frequencies and offers high resolution. May leave slight void in bass region though.
  
 Comfort wise I'd say ED11 = HDS1 > ED9 > ZN1 > ATE > ZS1
  
 ED11 is most comfortable earphone that I own (alongside HDS1).
  
*DISCLAIMER *personal opinions only


----------



## EISENbricher

zeebit said:


> Do any of the KZ earphones come stock with their blue whirlwind tips? Has anyone tried them and how are they?



ED10, ED11, ATE come with those as far as I remember. 
I didn't like those tips though... They are stiffer and don't isolate that well for me.


----------



## vencaxxx

Thank you very much


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> zeebit said:
> 
> 
> > Do any of the KZ earphones come stock with their blue whirlwind tips? Has anyone tried them and how are they?
> ...


 
 Just for mention... for me, smallest whirlwinds (that are NOT included with KZ IEMs) are very good tips and one of my top 5 silicone tips alongside JVC spiral dots, no-name ultra-soft white ones, Philips UE smallest (red/grey), CX300 no-name replacement (blue/grey). Keep in mind though, that I like deep insertion and I have small ear-canals.


----------



## Pulpfiction

My ATE's (ordered a few months ago) didn't come with whirlwind tips, they look the same apart from lacking the silicone 'ribs' on the inside. I see you rated ATE last comfortwise btw EISEN.What would you say is the size of your ears & ear canals, large / medium / small? I'm curious because you rated ZN1 more comfortable than TE - I find ATE very comfy actually though I'm not sure if they'd fit if they were any bigger. I ordered ZN1 Mini sputlr-of-the-moment style & it should come in soon, but after looking at it more (*after* ordering lol) it does look bigger than the ATE... Slightly worried I won't be able to enjoy them..


----------



## CoiL

IEM fit is very subjective and depends a lot of persons ear-canal-shape. Again, for me ATE is very comfy and I have small ears with small ear-canals.
 If I get ZN1mini/ATN, then my worry is about nozzle length. They do seem more comfy design and ergonomic but since I like deep insertion, I`m afraid they wont be so comfy/secure for wearing.


----------



## EISENbricher

pulpfiction said:


> My ATE's (ordered a few months ago) didn't come with whirlwind tips, they look the same apart from lacking the silicone 'ribs' on the inside. I see you rated ATE last comfortwise btw EISEN.What would you say is the size of your ears & ear canals, large / medium / small? I'm curious because you rated ZN1 more comfortable than TE - I find ATE very comfy actually though I'm not sure if they'd fit if they were any bigger. I ordered ZN1 Mini sputlr-of-the-moment style & it should come in soon, but after looking at it more (*after* ordering lol) it does look bigger than the ATE... Slightly worried I won't be able to enjoy them..



It's just in realtive terms! They are nicely comfy and I can easily wear them for hours. Btw my ear size is medium.

It's like comparing multiple comfortable couches, all are pretty comfortable but you have to choose one. 

ZN1 has smoother curves and thinner body and hence slides easily in the ear. 

Pls keep in mind though the fit is very, very personal and subjective. 



coil said:


> Just for mention... for me, smallest whirlwinds (that are NOT included with KZ IEMs) are very good tips and one of my top 5 silicone tips alongside JVC spiral dots, no-name ultra-soft white ones, Philips UE smallest (red/grey), CX300 no-name replacement (blue/grey). Keep in mind though, that I like deep insertion and I have small ear-canals.



Yup, since the stiffness won't matter much if the tip size is very near to ear cavity size. That way it has to flex only little. 

In case of others though, more need to flex worsens with increased stiffness. I hope I'm making sense.


----------



## CoiL

Btw, those who are interested on getting opinions about different tips/IEM combinations or sharing impressions about their tip-rolling results - please keep this useful thread alive : http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/15#post_11787305


----------



## sgl54

I also find the ate very comfortable and suspect it's due to ear and canal size. I use large tips with pretty much everything. That's background for my take on the Zn1 Zs1 and I suspect the Zn1 mini as well ( same shell, I have a set comming as well ) but my point is the shell shape is much different from the Ate. For me the Ate fits further into the outer ear. The "Z" series, I think because of the twin sound channels fits further out of the ear so while large still fit comfortably. Hope this helps.


----------



## EISENbricher

I almost forgot about ZS1 against ZN1's fit. 
  
 I'd rate ZS1 lower in comfort (updated my rating above) only because of the memory cable. Normal wire of ZN1 with provided ear hook was a much better and comfy fir for me.


----------



## carltonh

Just an FYI, but Gearbest has the EDR2 on sale for under $6 either with or without mic.  (Even at that price, I'm not sure if I'll jump on it because I'm not one for a bright sound signature as y'all have described it.)
  
 I had recently got my ED4 from them. Free shipping took 19 days. With about 15 hours on them, I'll have to do a close A/B comparison to be able to find differences with the ED10. They ave very close in sound quality and sound signature. Both have that very fast attack and release, lots of subbass and treble. Still waiting to say if better/worse/exactly the same as ED10.
  
 I'm hoping the Z1/S4 I have coming has a flatter EQ than the ED4. I already have plenty of V shaped IEMs, but the HDS3 and Puro IEM500 now make me want to prefer a flatter EQ. (Also have S3 and ED8 on the way.)


----------



## B9Scrambler

carltonh ED4 is brighter than the EDR2. You should definitely scoop them up at that price.


----------



## ronniebra

Hi guys, 
  
 Saw all the raving about the ATE and picked up a pair from the KZ store on aliexpress I believe.
  
 With the supplied tips, vocals and sounds aren't clear; they sound muddy. Just wanted to know if maybe there's something I need to do before they sound good, because to me, they're pretty mediocre.


----------



## lesp4ul

coil said:


> 2nd edition ATE translucent black (not S version). And probably ATN (ZN1mini) too but I personally don`t have it, yet.


 
 I almost bought an S version, already have old translucent version tho. What the difference between those two?


----------



## 1clearhead

eisenbricher said:


> I am not entirely convinced with the ATN being ZN1 revamp...  Lot of times we've seen resellers rebranding KZ and also changing model numbers.
> 
> Doesn't mean I totally disagree though, but there is no reliable source of information which actually bothers me. KZ have their own website but seems like it doesn't get much love.


 
  
 True. I'm just following this one seller in taobao that started the S3 series, in which I bought the S4 and ATN also from this seller. As long as it's more towards the sound signature of the ZN1's, I'm find with that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






eisenbricher said:


> *ATE* for smooth, slight dark-ish sound with beautiful mids (hence vocals) and above average soundstage.
> *ZS1* for big sub bass and punchy bass (in short bass oriented phone), cool as a sports earphone.
> *ZN1mini* looks and feels like ZS1 but with big sound difference. ZN1 sounds mature, mellow and detailed with big 3D soundstage and arguably balanced sound.
> *ED4 *don't have it...
> ...


 
  
 Nice write-up…..sweet!


----------



## peter123

ronniebra said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Saw all the raving about the ATE and picked up a pair from the KZ store on aliexpress I believe.
> 
> With the supplied tips, vocals and sounds aren't clear; they sound muddy. Just wanted to know if maybe there's something I need to do before they sound good, because to me, they're pretty mediocre.




This is exactly how I feel about them as well (and I've tried a lot of tips). Maybe it's unit variation, maybe we don't get a good fit (I doubt that in my case because I've also got the IM70 with idetical shape and they fit me very well) or they're just not for us.....


----------



## EISENbricher

ronniebra said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Saw all the raving about the ATE and picked up a pair from the KZ store on aliexpress I believe.
> 
> With the supplied tips, vocals and sounds aren't clear; they sound muddy. Just wanted to know if maybe there's something I need to do before they sound good, because to me, they're pretty mediocre.


 
 ATE has dark-ish sound signature and vocals are little 'laid back' than 'in your face' kind, but I think those shouldn't sound muddy.
  
 Supplied foam tips imo are not so good. Please go for wide bore, long and narrow silicone soft tips. You might have some lying around. Also let ATE pass through some burn in (I'm not fully a believer in that, but I have witnessed some changes).
  
 What are you comparing ATE to btw? Yes KZ is absolutely great for its price but there are better earphones available at higher prices.


----------



## ipaulpereira

Received my KZ Z1 in the mail today. Just a note to those interested. Audible hiss in Colorfly C3, Fiio X5, Fiio x5 + Cayin C5 and Xduoo X2 with the worst being in the x2 and least being in C3. 
  
 Love the female vocals in the c3 using the z1.
  
 Needs the right ear tip though.
  
 ( too tight  and bass gets boomy to me) 
  
 too loose (overall sound becomes thin and sibilant) but with a just nice fit, with small bore, the entire frequency range gets pretty smooth to me (using the c3) Didn't quite like teh sound from x5 and xduoo x2, i find them sibilant and slightly metallic. 
  
 I'm guessing the Z1 will work well with warmer sources though i might be wrong. Just an early impression. Soundstage is rather narrow to me. 
  
 I ultimately prefer it sounding from the colorfly c3. Sounds the most natural to me.
  
 ON another note, i found the dark and delicious KZ Ate S very lovely with the X5. straight out of the box, I found the ATE S to be the most 'audiophile' to me.


----------



## CoiL

ronniebra said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Saw all the raving about the ATE and picked up a pair from the KZ store on aliexpress I believe.
> 
> With the supplied tips, vocals and sounds aren't clear; they sound muddy. Just wanted to know if maybe there's something I need to do before they sound good, because to me, they're pretty mediocre.


 
 Yeah, with stock foam tips they sound "muffled". 1st thing to to is using wide bore silicones that will sit on level with nozzle ending (for deeper insertion) - must do thing!
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/15#post_11787305
 Another thing is venting holes near to nozzle neck on the body - check if they are nicely open/clear and filter material behind that hole isn`t loose or in wrong position.
 
  
 Though, I have heavily modded my ATE, in stock configuration I found ATE certainly not mediocre. It was(is) detailed, open/airy sounding, large soundstage and great imaging.
 But we all have different gear, preferences, sound hearing and perception, music taste etc. - some IEM may not be for everyone. Not to mention fit issues.
  


lesp4ul said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > 2nd edition ATE translucent black (not S version). And probably ATN (ZN1mini) too but I personally don`t have it, yet.
> ...


 

 S version should be very bassy and mainstream sounding according to impressions by many and lower SQ. Doesn`t have S version though, can`t share my own impressions.
  


eisenbricher said:


> ronniebra said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys,
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## zzhead

Hey guys,
 Been enjoying the zn1 mini for over a week.
 Today connected it to my phone and realized (!!!!...) that it doesn't have a remote answering switch like all the other IEM's with microphone.
 Checked for microphone and it is there. Probably buried inside the splitter. But no answering switch and of course no way to switch
 tracks back and forth unless you do these from the phone. Being a bike rider that is of importance to me.
 Has this point been raised before and I missed it?
 I do not include pics but the link that I bought it from. It is exactly like you see it there.
 I would appreciate your input on it. TY
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-KZ-ZN1-Headphone-Double-Modular-HiFi-Tuning-Noise-Cancelling-Sensor-Headphone-Earphone-In-ear/32574360675.html


----------



## sgl54

Ipual, 
Is this the Zn1 mini your refering to as opposed to the Zn1 (amped) ? Also is this present during play, background before selection or between tracks?
Second
Love the female vocals in the c3 using the z1. 
Is this it's strongest feature across the board for yours?
Third

Needs the right ear tip though.

The Zs1 was the hardest for me to get tips to work, but suspect it was the mem wire. My Zn1 ( amped) worked great right out of the box.


Glad you found a player it works well for you with.


----------



## sgl54

Eisenbrecker, 
Nice write up well thought out. As usual you add srength to the forum
Thanks


----------



## ipaulpereira

sgl54 said:


> Ipual,
> Is this the Zn1 mini your refering to as opposed to the Zn1 (amped) ? Also is this present during play, background before selection or between tracks?
> Second
> Love the female vocals in the c3 using the z1.
> ...




It's this one, http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED8M-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/32256027095.html

No idea why the url says ed8m but it's the kz z1 which I read might be an s4. Exact same piece as the pic. And the hiss is during pause, when the players are on but not playing. 

The bass is pretty tight with the right tips. Still burning in tho, through the o2 odac, it sounds, to me, bright across the board and somewhat edgy.


----------



## sgl54

ipaulpereira said:


> It's this one, http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED8M-interactive-two-unit-high-end-mobile-music-enthusiast-Q-value-headset-ear-headphones-bass/32256027095.html
> 
> No idea why the url says ed8m but it's the kz z1 which I read might be an s4. Exact same piece as the pic. And the hiss is during pause, when the players are on but not playing.
> 
> The bass is pretty tight with the right tips. Still burning in tho, through the o2 odac, it sounds, to me, bright across the board and somewhat edgy.



Thanks Ipual, I'm not sure of the real name, designation of the pictured phone 8 or 4 but it's not what Kz or Kz vendors anyway have been framing as the Zn1 mini. ( I'll put a picture of a Z series at the end) that said the phone you've mentioned is cheap enough to give a try . Thanks for the input.


----------



## ipaulpereira

Welcome!


----------



## fallrsk

sgl54 the Z1 is actually the S4, it's just one of those dumb names the vendors have given it. 

ipaulpereira the hiss you're hearing is due probably due to the 16 ohm impedance which requires a higher SNR compared to most every other set of phones. Use it on a phone and see if it persists.


----------



## ipaulpereira

fallrsk said:


> sgl54 the Z1 is actually the S4, it's just one of those dumb names the vendors have given it.
> 
> ipaulpereira the hiss you're hearing is due probably due to the 16 ohm impedance which requires a higher SNR compared to most every other set of phones. Use it on a phone and see if it persists.




Thanks chief! Don't hear hissing on the phone (Oppo r7s) sounds pretty good actually.


----------



## sgl54

fallrsk said:


> sgl54 the Z1 is actually the S4, it's just one of those dumb names the vendors have given it.
> 
> ipaulpereira the hiss you're hearing is due probably due to the 16 ohm impedance which requires a higher SNR compared to most every other set of phones. Use it on a phone and see if it persists.



Thank you, it's common for vendors to use differnt names, I have no idea why. That said I appreciate the heads up.


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

okay i was going to purchase xiaomi hybrid for 17$ but i found this thread by coincidence. there are a lot of headphones from KZ and most of them are under my budget. any recommendations?


----------



## Pulpfiction

About the ATE sounding muddy: I can understand that description ( I wouldn't call it muddy - just dark ) if coming from iem / headphones / earbuds with decent treble extention/detail/seperation. The ATE sounds pretty rolled off to me in the treble, which gives it a lack of air and a lack of that feeling of clarity and crispyness you get from other iems / buds / headphones with a different sound signature. Stock tips didn't work well for me either by the way, I ordered these at the same time as my ATE's and I'm very happy I did, they've been working out great so far http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32517832056.html?productId=32517832056&productSubject=6Pairs-12pcs-IE80-Noise-Isolating-Double-Silicone-Eartips-5mm-Comply-Ear-Tips-For-IE8-IE80-Earphones&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

ATE doesn't have everything, but what it does it does quite well (a smooth mix of strong mids on a foundation of juicy but not overpowering/unbalanced bass, with decent seperation & sound stage, all presented in a non-fatigueing way).

 While I still enjoy it I have been missing the treble a bit since I got them, and find myself using my VE Monks 9 out of 10 times since I got them because of their generally detailed but balanced musical sound & air they bring to the table. I use the ATE when I want improved comfort, IEM isolation & nice strong sub bass lines (present in the electronic music I listen to). Really though, for the 8$ paid I can really only recommend ATE. I'm waiting for the ZN1 Mini which I hope will expand on the ATE signature with even better soundstage but more importantly: some more treble extention.


----------



## fallrsk

ahmed waheed said:


> okay i was going to purchase xiaomi hybrid for 17$ but i found this thread by coincidence. there are a lot of headphones from KZ and most of them are under my budget. any recommendations?




HDS1 or 3, S3 or S4, ZN1 mini, ED9, and I'd recommend the monk (although it's not a KZ) so you've got a wide array of choices here.

I'd say the HDS3 out of those that I have (including ED10, ED4, ZS1, Monk, P2, and P3 and used to have Zircons) is the most comfy followed by the P3 and ED4 and the ED10 and P2 being least comfy (weird pressure points). The monks are awesome in their own weird way that I prefer to use them for silent cinema over my HD598's due to the small size/comfort, open sound and actually playing well with dolby headphone for a surround feel.

ED9 is a good place to start, as well as the HDS1/HDS3. I'd say those first 2 are the most highly recommended.


----------



## carltonh

I was just doing some A/B comparisons, (all un-amped) and the HDS3 sounds most similar to my Sony XB90, minus just a little subbass kick and volume. The XB90s are more balanced than people assume, their bass monster status comes from their abilities once amped and EQed.
  
 More time and hours with the ED4, and although I like them, they are too similar to the ED10, but a little more V-shaped, a little more of a treble peak somewhere around 6K, and thus not as good. Still otherwise quite accurate  and extended. Their moderately wide size isn't any smaller than the ED10, which are shorter, so I'm not sure anyone would prefer the ED4 over the ED10.


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

fallrsk said:


> HDS1 or 3, S3 or S4, ZN1 mini, ED9, and I'd recommend the monk (although it's not a KZ) so you've got a wide array of choices here.
> 
> I'd say the HDS3 out of those that I have (including ED10, ED4, ZS1, Monk, P2, and P3 and used to have Zircons) is the most comfy followed by the P3 and ED4 and the ED10 and P2 being least comfy (weird pressure points). The monks are awesome in their own weird way that I prefer to use them for silent cinema over my HD598's due to the small size/comfort, open sound and actually playing well with dolby headphone for a surround feel.
> 
> ED9 is a good place to start, as well as the HDS1/HDS3. I'd say those first 2 are the most highly recommended.


 
  
 thank you so much!


----------



## fallrsk

So, I got bored and decided to finally play a little shootout between all my iem's. Playing "Magnets" by Disclosure and Lorde, in 320 kbps through Foobar at 24/96 on my smsl m2.
  
ED4 with knockoff hybrids
The highs and bass are present in quite a normal fashion with the mids definitely sucked out after listening to my monks and HDS3. This makes the iem sound so dead and dull; indifferent.  Lorde’s vocals seem behind me but sound pretty normal and have a decent weight to them without a sibilant sparkle to be heard. All the drums in the mid are completely sucked out and it’s hard to really hear them coherently. All I hear is the sub bass thump of the drums really, yet the high mids going into the treble are definitely there but seem to get a little mixed up together, making them a bit incoherent. The high treble seems a bit rolled off too, although I originally found it a bit sibilant. I think it’s just the song.
  
HDS3 with stock tips
  
It just feels right, lol! The sub bass isn’t as apparent, seeming to trade weight to give the mids space to breathe and be heard. I can hear Lorde literally singing into my ears, but there’s a certain piece of percussion that seems sucked out or drowned out which just happens to be my favorite instrument in the entire song. It’s like two metal dowels being struck together and just seems to be a bit lost in the iem’s presentation. It might be due to a slight V shape in the sound signature, with the apex being on this single instrument’s part of the spectrum. All the sounds are well separated, although it sounds a bit congested at times with too many sounds occurring at once.
  
ED10 with blue whirlwinds
  
Is there a sub in my room or am I just confused.. Lol! There is so much sub bass, I forgot how fun these things sound! There is beyond enough bass to motivate anyone to bob their head with the beat and burst out into dance, with a super lively V shaped presentation. The mids get a little lost, they get drowned out a bit by the sub bass and sparkly, slightly sibilant highs. I really forgot how much I enjoyed these iem’s since I got the ED4’s! If you’re a basshead that loves a decently coherent iem and can tolerate the fit, these are definitely a need to have. If you DJ, these should probably be a force to be reckoned with as a monitor for basslines.  The fit really turns me off as it hurts my ears after a while, and I’m a bit sensitive to the extra sparkle on the top end of the treble.
  
ZS1 with KZ comply style foams
  
These actually have more in common with the ED10 than anything else I own, if I may say so. A few head-fi’ers know how I feel about the sound of these but they fit almost perfectly with this song.. What is happening!? The bass doesn’t seem to drown out as much of the music as the ED10’s but the midbass is boosted a bit too much and just booms too much. Lorde’s voice doesn’t sparkle as well, I’m guessing it’s due to the sub bass and midbass being so heavily boosted that everything else sounds a little off. Previously, I thought that these sounded hollow but it’s actually due to the midbass booming so heavy that it seems to give sounds a sort of echo.
  
VE Monk with full foam cover
  
These sound a bit like the HDS3, if they were wide open. The sub bass isn’t very apparent as I don’t get a good seal without holding them in. When I do hold them in, the subbass is well extended but a tad boosted possibly, with an added sparkle on top that I’m not overly fond of but can definitely tolerate. These sound a lot more like my HD598SE than the others, and the open back sound is definitely a favorite for me nowadays. The music can breathe and just resonates beautifully. Lorde’s voice is just right infront of my face and every single instrument has beautiful separation with room to breathe. The sound gets a little congested at times but it’s not as bad as any of the other iem’s. Comfort definitely varies for this pair of buds as I just lay them in my ears and can wear them forever, but if I vie for a complete seal, they’re easily less comfortable than the ED10’s. Also, these play beautifully with Dolby headphone/virtual surround due to the openness and allow for a great immersion in video games or silent cinema.
  
P3 with knockoff Hybrids
  
I really haven’t listened to these since I’ve chanced upon KZ and I definitely forgot how good these really are. Once again, Lorde’s voice is in my head but sounds great. The mid bass is just barely boosted but the sub bass rolls off so quickly that there’s barely enough weight to hear it.. I think all I can hear is the midbass, really. The highs seem to roll off smoothly and don’t interrupt the song’s presentation and all the instruments are separated just enough to hear everything. They’re unbelievably light and so comfortable and sound good, a bit like the HD3 I’d say, just missing some highs and lows. (No highs, no lows; must be Bose LOL)
  
Best overall – HDS3 tied with the Monks, I’d just say they’ve got different things that they equally excel at.
Bass – ED10 by far, the midbass boom on ZN1 is just a pita for me.
Comfort – P3 or HDS3, they’re just so light and vanish into your ears.
  
Order I’d rate the earphones I’ve owned:
HDS3, Monk
Zircons (no longer have, can’t really say much)
P3
ED4
ED10
ZN1, P2
Assorted Skullcandies
  
  
Funny how carltonh just hit the nail on the head as I got ready to post this lol! The ED4 just sound bland missing their mids, imo.


----------



## kaiteck

ahmed waheed said:


> okay i was going to purchase xiaomi hybrid for 17$ but i found this thread by coincidence. there are a lot of headphones from KZ and most of them are under my budget. any recommendations?




KZ ate if you like classical music.


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

kaiteck said:


> KZ ate if you like classical music.


 
  
 i like electro and alternative rock more. i am also ordering xiaomi piston 3 so i have 10$ left if you have any recommendation
  
 also i will use it in public transport a lot


----------



## kaiteck

ahmed waheed said:


> i like electro and alternative rock more. i am also ordering xiaomi piston 3 so i have 10$ left if you have any recommendation
> 
> also i will use it in public transport a lot


 
  
 public transport? Then, you're looking at the right place. Not sure about other IEMs' performance, but kz ate *Microphonics* is close to none when used with a pair of ear guide.
  
 you may wanna take a look at what other people say about ed9 and zs1.


----------



## MoshiMoshi

I'm thinking of getting the ed11 and hds3 as my first KZs, what do you guys think? I want them to be comfortable, isolate+cancel noise, and have a clear/fun sound.


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

kaiteck said:


> public transport? Then, you're looking at the right place. Not sure about other IEMs' performance, but kz ate *Microphonics* is close to none when used with a pair of ear guide.
> 
> you may wanna take a look at what other people say about ed9 and zs1.


 
  
 there are too many headphones from KZ and too many positive comments and it's confusing me. i guess i will cancel the piston 3 and get 2 KZ instead they are cheap!. i will read more in the thread. thanks for your recommendations!


----------



## sgl54

Well my Zn1 mini's arrived today. Just starting burn in but definitely better then the Zs1.

 left to right Zn1, Zs1 Zn1 mini


----------



## kaiteck

sgl54 said:


> Well my Zn1 mini's arrived today. Just starting burn in but definitely better then the Zs1.
> 
> left to right Zn1, Zs1 Zn1 mini


 
 Any idea what sound signature zs1 is like? People have been saying it's L-shaped sound signature but I've no idea what that means =.=


----------



## EISENbricher

ahmed waheed said:


> i like electro and alternative rock more. i am also ordering xiaomi piston 3 so i have 10$ left if you have any recommendation
> 
> also i will use it in public transport a lot


 
 ED11 would be a good choice for this, it sounds spacious, has lot of sub bass, airy highs and it isolates well. 
 ED11 would complement well to P3. P3 will offer you nice mid range and highs leaving out some void in lows but ED11  will gladly fill it. 
  


moshimoshi said:


> I'm thinking of getting the ed11 and hds3 as my first KZs, what do you guys think? I want them to be comfortable, isolate+cancel noise, and have a clear/fun sound.


 
 Assuming HDS3 will sound like HDS1 (I currently have only HDS1, HDS3 is on the way) it'll be good choice. 
  
 Both ED11 and HDS1/3 are most comfortable earphones I've ever had. 
 Isolation wise ED11 is better than HDS1. In absolute terms I'd say ED11 is above average. It isolates well but I've seen better. From KZ lineup imo ED8m is the isolation king. 
  
 Sound wise both complement each other. HDS sounds balanced, slightly analytical and ED11 is like roller coaster fun ride sound. 
  


kaiteck said:


> Any idea what sound signature zs1 is like? People have been saying it's L-shaped sound signature but I've no idea what that means =.=


 
 L shaped means lot of bass, but average or below average quantity of mids and highs.
 In other terms if you push up bass sliders (left end) of any equalizer and keep mid and highs at default, that would be L sound.


----------



## sgl54

The Zs1 is definately if not hugely "L" shaped. Aside from my difficulty with the memory wire I found I needed a looser fit in tips to reduce the bass. The Zn1 (amped) is pretty level across the sound signature although with the built in EQ It never runs flat. The Zn1 mini still has a strong bass but some how not ( at first listen) as over burdening as the Zs1. Bare in mind I listen for maybe five or so minutes.


----------



## EISENbricher

zzhead said:


> Hey guys,
> Been enjoying the zn1 mini for over a week.
> Today connected it to my phone and realized (!!!!...) that it doesn't have a remote answering switch like all the other IEM's with microphone.
> Checked for microphone and it is there. Probably buried inside the splitter. But no answering switch and of course no way to switch
> ...


 
  ZN1mini has 4 pin connectors but it lacks any switch or mic. 
 It's been mentioned on the product page for ZN1mini on KZs own store on Ali.
  
 Quote:


ahmed waheed said:


> okay i was going to purchase xiaomi hybrid for 17$ but i found this thread by coincidence. there are a lot of headphones from KZ and most of them are under my budget. any recommendations?


 
 Please have a look at my post #9446 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/9435#post_12313207


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

eisenbricher said:


> ED11 would be a good choice for this, it sounds spacious, has lot of sub bass, airy highs and it isolates well.
> ED11 would complement well to P3. P3 will offer you nice mid range and highs leaving out some void in lows but ED11  will gladly fill it.


 
  
 Does P3 mean Piston 3? if yes will they perform good in the public transport noise? i take the subway everyday for about 2 hours


----------



## kaiteck

ahmed waheed said:


> Does P3 mean Piston 3? if yes will they perform good in the public transport noise? i take the subway everyday for about 2 hours


 
 I personally find piston 2 do isolation better than piston 3. I bought piston 3 and sold it at a loss. You may wanna consider the xiaomi hybrid/piston 4 iem instead.


----------



## mebaali

ahmed waheed said:


> Does P3 mean Piston 3? if yes will they perform good in the public transport noise? i take the subway everyday for about 2 hours


 
 Piston 3 for me is PITA when it comes to getting half decent fit + isolation (have tried variety of tips but the results are same).
  
 Piston 2, KZ ED10 (ED11's precursor), HDS1 all gives much better fit and isolation for my ears while travelling in public transport.


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

mebaali said:


> Piston 3 for me is PITA when it comes to getting half decent fit + isolation (have tried variety of tips but the results are same).
> 
> Piston 2, KZ ED10 (ED11's precursor), HDS1 all gives much better fit and isolation for my ears while travelling in public transport.


 
  
 i was going to purchase the piston 3 just now. i guess i will get the ED11 and HDS1 or HDS3 instead. now i am stuck with aliexpress


----------



## mebaali

ahmed waheed said:


> i was going to purchase the piston 3 just now. i guess i will get the ED11 and HDS1 or HDS3 instead. now i am stuck with aliexpress


 
 I bought my HDS1 from Ebay for 6.5 US$, few months back
  
 Check this link http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-Mini-Metal-DIY-Earphone-HD-Dynamic-Ear-Headphones-Headset-Free-Shipping-/401033316259?var=&hash=item5d5f72c7a3m0lsXrB_RpAnoK6wb9EaRMA
  
 Edit: price seems to have increased by a dollar.


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

mebaali said:


> I bought my HDS1 from Ebay for 6.5 US$, few months back
> 
> Check this link http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-HDS1-Mini-Metal-DIY-Earphone-HD-Dynamic-Ear-Headphones-Headset-Free-Shipping-/401033316259?var=&hash=item5d5f72c7a3m0lsXrB_RpAnoK6wb9EaRMA
> 
> Edit: price seems to have increased by a dollar.


 
  
 i guess i will buy from aliexpress instead. i decided to get ED11 and HDS1
  
 should i consider ATE or ZN1 mini? which one is better for me? i was using Sony noise cancelling MDR-NC31EM and it was a beast in terms of noise cancellation.


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

SORRY REPEATED POST


----------



## EISENbricher

ED10/11 (same drivers) and HDS1/3 (same drivers?) complement nicely to each other, giving a nice fit and two very different sound signatures.


----------



## anticute

I use my IEMs a lot on public transport, so I've made real life tests. ATE was one I had a lot of expectations on regarding isolation, but frankly it doesn't isolate much at all. HDS1 with the right tips is way way better, IMO. Might be that I never got as good a seal with ATE, but to be honest I don't think that's the whole  reason.
  
 Anyway. HDS1 isolates better, and they're pretty damn good for the price. 
  
 I have the ED10 as well, but they have a weird shape, and it was really hard for me to get decent isolation since I couldn't get a good deep insertion. ED9 actually isolated better than I expected, and with the brass nozzles and the right tips they are also really good.
  
 Anyway, out of all those, I'd go for the HDS1 or HDS3 (although I think the jury's still out on that one, even though a few people seem to like it).
  
 Just my $0.02


----------



## zzhead

Originally Posted by *EISENbricher*
  
 ZN1mini has 4 pin connectors but it lacks any switch or mic. 
 It's been mentioned on the product page for ZN1mini on KZs own store on Ali.
  
  
  
 hi again and ty for the reply
 Well now.. how to put it.
 Zn1 mini seems to have mic. Actually I am using it right now..........
 I am on the phone and use it as hands free
 How do they hear me loud and clear as they say?
 The phone is the full distance away in my back pocket.
 ty


----------



## vsls

So I have around $25 refund to spend and my choices are limited.
I am considering to buy Piston 3 ($12.5) and KZ ED9 ($13) or 1More Voice of China ($21) and another extremely cheap KZ maybe?

From KZ line they have ATE ($10.5), EDR1 ($7.5), ATE-S ($14.5), ED4 ($6), EDR2 ($6), ED3 ($12)

Should I still consider Piston 3? I think that ED9 is a solid buy, so should I try another KZ of the above mentioned?
I have HDS1 and I'm pretty satisfied so far by the sound and fitting.
I'm looking for good midrange and I listen mainly to Rock, no amp. (NO EDM ever!)


----------



## zzhead

vsls said:


> So I have around $25 refund to spend and my choices are limited.
> I am considering to buy Piston 3 ($12.5) and KZ ED9 ($13) or 1More Voice of China ($21) and another extremely cheap KZ maybe?
> 
> From KZ line they have ATE ($10.5), EDR1 ($7.5), ATE-S ($14.5), ED4 ($6), EDR2 ($6), ED3 ($12)
> ...


 

 Rock zircons and you are done. Also drop Pistons and go for zn1 mini and/or Ate((not the S) patrioti


----------



## collidestar

who brought on this seller? 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32492068324.html


----------



## vsls

zzhead said:


> Rock zircons and you are done. Also drop Pistons and go for zn1 mini and/or Ate((not the S) patrioti



 

Probably Zircons are extremely bassy for my tastes and also they're not available at that shop.
From KZ line there are only those I've mentioned above so no zn1 mini either.
I will consider ATE although I don't know how bad is the memory wire


----------



## zzhead

vsls said:


> zzhead said:
> 
> 
> > Rock zircons and you are done. Also drop Pistons and go for zn1 mini and/or Ate((not the S) patrioti
> ...




I had the zs1 gave it as a present just because of the over ear wire.
A deal breaker for me.
That's why I suggested the ATE regular.


----------



## EISENbricher

zzhead said:


> Originally Posted by *EISENbricher*
> 
> ZN1mini has 4 pin connectors but it lacks any switch or mic.
> It's been mentioned on the product page for ZN1mini on KZs own store on Ali.
> ...




Just for the sake I did testing on both my mobile phones (Lumia 520, Gionee E7) and sister's phone (Lenovo P1). 

None of the phone shows mic icon when connected (it does with my HDS1 mic version) and doesn't function as expected. 

Phone mics are very sensitive, maybe it's picking your voice even from far? But from my own testing as well as from kzs product page all I can say is that ZN1mini lacks mic.


----------



## zzhead

eisenbricher said:


> Just for the sake I did testing on both my mobile phones (Lumia 520, Gionee E7) and sister's phone (Lenovo P1).
> 
> None of the phone shows mic icon when connected (it does with my HDS1 mic version) and doesn't function as expected.
> 
> Phone mics are very sensitive, maybe it's picking your voice even from far? But from my own testing as well as from kzs product page all I can say is that ZN1mini lacks mic.




Tnx.
If I knew then what I know now.
But soooo much commentry on zn1 and no mentioning of such an important issue?
Rgds


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

anticute said:


> I use my IEMs a lot on public transport, so I've made real life tests. ATE was one I had a lot of expectations on regarding isolation, but frankly it doesn't isolate much at all. HDS1 with the right tips is way way better, IMO. Might be that I never got as good a seal with ATE, but to be honest I don't think that's the whole  reason.
> 
> Anyway. HDS1 isolates better, and they're pretty damn good for the price.
> 
> ...


 
 i oredered ED11 should i cancel the order?


----------



## EISENbricher

ahmed waheed said:


> i oredered ED11 should i cancel the order?



Nope, ED10/11 actually the most comfortable IEM that I've ever had. Fit is very personal. Please don't judge any IEMs 'fit' from a single opinion. 

I'd suggest to gather opinion of multiple ED10/11 owners and go with majority.


----------



## EISENbricher

zzhead said:


> Tnx.
> If I knew then what I know now.
> But soooo much commentry on zn1 and no mentioning of such an important issue?
> Rgds




ZN1 (with amp) has mic while ZN1mini doesn't. Let's first eliminate that ambiguity. 

I think most people on head fi forum use their earphones with DAP/DAC or other sources. Main reason is that most phones' output suffer from typical low end audio gear such as poor impedance match, frequency roll off and low output current. 

Personally I've always preferred non mic versions because they have one less weak point in build (the mic cable joint)


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

eisenbricher said:


> Nope, ED10/11 actually the most comfortable IEM that I've ever had. Fit is very personal. Please don't judge any IEMs 'fit' from a single opinion.
> 
> I'd suggest to gather opinion of multiple ED10/11 owners and go with majority.


 
 i used the search tool in the thread and i guess people seem to like it. but is it durable? i lost my sony nc31em because cable torsion. my budget is 20$ if there is a better recommendation for higher price and i was going to purchase piston 3
  
 and i really like the ROCK Zircon


----------



## EISENbricher

ahmed waheed said:


> i used the search tool in the thread and i guess people seem to like it. but is it durable? i lost my sony nc31em because cable torsion. my budget is 20$ if there is a better recommendation for higher price and i was going to purchase piston 3



Earpiece, check. Built like tank. 
Cable, check. Usual KZ cable. 
Connector, check. Usual L shape KZ. 

You'll know KZ build quality if you've even used any model in past.

Can't comment about earpiece joint though, no KZ joint has ever failed me and I'm not gonna pull it for the sake of testing, haha.


----------



## nolife1123

ahmed waheed said:


> i used the search tool in the thread and i guess people seem to like it. but is it durable? i lost my sony nc31em because cable torsion. my budget is 20$ if there is a better recommendation for higher price and i was going to purchase piston 3
> 
> and i really like the ROCK Zircon


 
 Piston 3's kevlar cable tend to drag out if pulled hard, or so I've heard, other than that, it seems rugged, with decent materials


----------



## Ahmed Waheed

nolife1123 said:


> Piston 3's kevlar cable tend to drag out if pulled hard, or so I've heard, other than that, it seems rugged, with decent materials


 
  
 i tried the piston 3 for about 5 mins. not enough time to make an opinion but i like it's materials. 
  
 however i will keep ED11 and buy another IEM
  
 Piston 3, some people say it doesn't fit with any tips
 Rock Zircon
 ATE
 HDS1
  
 i really like the Rock Zircon


----------



## anticute

ahmed waheed said:


> i oredered ED11 should i cancel the order?


 
 I don't own the ED11, so I have no idea how it isolates. Also, your ears are probably very different from mine, and just as @EISENbricher said - don't judge just based on one opinion. 
  
 ..and opinions based on subjective personal experiences is the best any of us can give, which is important to remember when reading through this forum, and even more important (and, I sometimes feel, something that's forgotten even more frequently) when posting.


----------



## Podster

anticute said:


> I don't own the ED11, so I have no idea how it isolates. Also, your ears are probably very different from mine, and just as @EISENbricher
> said - don't judge just based on one opinion.
> 
> ..and opinions based on subjective personal experiences is the best any of us can give, which is important to remember when reading through this forum, and even more important (and, I sometimes feel, something that's forgotten even more frequently) when posting.




Good advice Anticute, I like the way ED10's and 11's sound but unlike Eisen these teo hurt my ears But for $6 to $10 you don't have a lot to lose trying them


----------



## nolife1123

ahmed waheed said:


> Piston 3, some people say it doesn't fit with any tips


 
 The truth is that I have to re-adjust them every couple of minutes, they just barely hold on in the ears and tend to pop out extremely often, even while not doing anything (standing/sitting in the tram), however, I've never actually managed to fit a single IEM properly, not like I've had many to begin with, so don't take my word for it.


----------



## EISENbricher

One more thing I'd like to mention, in case someone don't like KZs fit or sound you may just sell it to any friend or colleague at same price. 

They are just so affordable and offer better sound than most mainstream earphones that non-audiophiles buy. Even with a short demo you'll find buyers. 

I've sold few of my extra pairs to friends with no hassle.


----------



## mccririck

I'm a bit disappointed with the treble on all four of my KZ earphones. It doesn't seem to extend very high and detail is lacking.


----------



## EISENbricher

mccririck said:


> I'm a bit disappointed with the treble on all four of my KZ earphones. It doesn't seem to extend very high and detail is lacking.



Yup, there are only few KZs which are good at it. Which 4 do you own and what are you using as a reference? Just curious.


----------



## mccririck

eisenbricher said:


> Yup, there are only few KZs which are good at it. Which 4 do you own and what are you using as a reference? Just curious.


 
  
 S3, HDS1, ED9 and Z1.
  
 To be honest I'm finding them all pretty similar. The HDS1 are the most comfortable. I am using a Nokia Lumia 920 as a source. I have a decent hifi setup, and sennheiser 565 Ovation headphones which are old but good.


----------



## EISENbricher

mccririck said:


> S3, HDS1, ED9 and Z1.
> 
> To be honest I'm finding them all pretty similar. The HDS1 are the most comfortable. I am using a Nokia Lumia 920 as a source. I have a decent hifi setup, and sennheiser 565 Ovation headphones which are old but good.



Hmm... These are actually supposed to be good at treble. 

All I can say is that I have no comment... Only because I haven't listened to any 'high end' earphone till date. I own Zero Audio Tenore and Havi B3 which are definitely better than KZs. 

Yup, truth. KZ is like Toyota which will offer all mainstream variety at cheap but not a supercar


----------



## Pulpfiction

I didn't take the plunge on an ED9, S3 or HSDS1 yet as I really don't need any more IEM's atm and the sellers have raised prices on those a bit following the hype here. Being the sucker for a good deal I am though and after B9Scrambler tickled my curiousity, I ordered 2 pairs of EDR2 with mic today. *Just* under 10E - seriously - before I discovered KZ and VE (that sexy sexy Monk) I thought I should be happy paying over 30E for a Sennheiser CX300 lol  ! Postman get a move on with that ZN1 Mini & Xduoo X2 please :rolleyes: !

B9 - Would you mind sharing more thoughts on EDR2 & compare it more thoroughly to the rest of the KZ flock ? All you did was tease


----------



## peter123

vsls said:


> zzhead said:
> 
> 
> > Rock zircons and you are done. Also drop Pistons and go for zn1 mini and/or Ate((not the S) patrioti
> ...




Yeah if you're looking for a nice midrange the Zircons is not the way to go, they're very v-shaped.......


----------



## B9Scrambler

pulpfiction said:


> B9 - Would you mind sharing more thoughts on EDR2 & compare it more thoroughly to the rest of the KZ flock ? All you did was tease


 
  
 I'll have to get back to you on that one. I've been bed-ridden all week, hence my lack of presence here. Really messed up my review schedule


----------



## Pulpfiction

No worries man, take your time! Hope you get well soon, must be a serious man-flu to floor you for a week!


----------



## EISENbricher

My HDS3 is arriving today : ) 
  
 It's been a while since KZ has launched a new model, I'm waiting for something new. Been longing for a BA driver earphone from KZ since long time.


----------



## nolife1123

eisenbricher said:


> My HDS3 is arriving today : )
> 
> It's been a while since KZ has launched a new model, I'm waiting for something new. Been longing for a BA driver earphone from KZ since long time.



May we have an impression+review on it later on  quite interested on your opinion over it, maybe compare it to the HDS1 if you've got one?


----------



## anticute

nolife1123 said:


> May we have an impression+review on it later on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1, I'd also like to know how they compare to HDS1


----------



## EISENbricher

Yup, I have HDS1 and I'll post impressions here


----------



## fallrsk

So, i just realized the HDS3 doesn't have a gold clad 3.5mm connector and for odd reasons I just seemed to question the authenticity of my pair.. I also believe my pair has a bit of an imbalance issue, but i already confirmed the goods on AE as it seemed to go away before.. I also realized almost immediately the lack of QC on the (what I assume to be) C&C casings as one casing is a bit different than the other. 

So.. The HDS3 isn't legit or i'm just being picky/paranoid. They may not even be imbalanced, i'm gonna try testing them later.


----------



## EISENbricher

My HDS3 didn't arrive today, hopefully will receive tomorrow.... Can't wait.


----------



## fallrsk

eisenbricher said:


> My HDS3 didn't arrive today, hopefully will receive tomorrow.... Can't wait.




Let me know how they perform in comparison to the HDS1's! I might order a pair of HDS1 or try another HDS3.. Idk.


EDIT: Just ran two tests where I recorded the left and right and there's a HUGE diffference in sound, I'm so disappointed! The left earpiece is missing a chunk of mids that extends straight down into the sub bass. Some instruments literally just disappear in the left ear piece. :mad:


----------



## EISENbricher

fallrsk said:


> Let me know how they perform in comparison to the HDS1's! I might order a pair of HDS1 or try another HDS3.. Idk.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Just ran two tests where I recorded the left and right and there's a HUGE diffference in sound, I'm so disappointed! The left earpiece is missing a chunk of mids that extends straight down into the sub bass. Some instruments literally just disappear in the left ear piece.


 
 That's sad... one side sounding off means a bad unit. Can't run an assessment using that one. Ask for replacement!


----------



## fallrsk

Farewell, cruel world... Lol!

Contacted the seller as they ignored me the last time that I brought up getting a defective unit, so I told them I'll be waiting until Chinese new year ends for an andwer otherwise I'll open a dispute.. Let's see how it goes.


----------



## Podster

Finally, just came in. Eisen is correct the ZN1 Mini is sweeter than the ZS1's


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Finally, just came in. Eisen is correct the ZN1 Mini is sweeter than the ZS1's


 
 Cool, let em burn it a little and do some tip rolling, they get even more sweeter : )
 The cable between Y split and jack is something, right? xD
  


fallrsk said:


> Farewell, cruel world... Lol!
> 
> Contacted the seller as they ignored me the last time that I brought up getting a defective unit, so I told them I'll be waiting until Chinese new year ends for an andwer otherwise I'll open a dispute.. Let's see how it goes.


 
 I'd say open it right away and don't ever believe in the sweet words, it's a usual trick.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Cool, let em burn it a little and do some tip rolling, they get even more sweeter : )
> The cable between Y split and jack is something, right? xD
> 
> I'd say open it right away and don't ever believe in the sweet words, it's a usual trick.


 

 LOL, does kind of remind you of one of those Oceanic Sea floor telecommunications cables


----------



## CoiL

ZN1mini is getting more and more attention from me... guess I have to get one and mod it.
 But I`m really struggling to order any more KZ`s because WOM-mod + H.H. tips combination sound very good already and my rational thinking says to save that money for bigger step-up.
 Probably Fidue A65 or something from LZ or... or... many options in sight
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Only thing that makes me want ZN1mini is dual-driver configuration and good impressions from some of You (with similar sound signature taste like me). But then again changing cable will add cost (no, I don`t like that cable at all and I`ll measure impedance when I take it apart) and not so deep insertion might be issue for me.
 Atm I have ordered only VE Monk to get what all the fuzz is about them. Still discussing with myself on this one.
  
 Btw, anyone knows where I could get KZ ANV ? Ali is empty from them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish to use them for modding in dual-driver configuration but I don`t want to destroy my already modded ANV-woodies for it.


----------



## Ruben123

For a real balanced sound I recommend HDS1 (or 3) owners to add a bass decrease of 3dB on your standard eq. It exactly cuts the bit too active bass of them which translates in an even better sound.


----------



## anticute

ruben123 said:


> For a real balanced sound I recommend HDS1 (or 3) owners to add a bass decrease of 3dB on your standard eq. It exactly cuts the bit too active bass of them which translates in an even better sound.


 

 +1
  
 I also found that cutting the bass helped the overall sound, it got a little bit too overpowered otherwise


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> For a real balanced sound I recommend HDS1 (or 3) owners to add a bass decrease of 3dB on your standard eq. It exactly cuts the bit too active bass of them which translates in an even better sound.


 
 Nice tip
  


coil said:


> ZN1mini is getting more and more attention from me... guess I have to get one and mod it.
> But I`m really struggling to order any more KZ`s because WOM-mod + H.H. tips combination sound very good already and my rational thinking says to save that money for bigger step-up.
> Probably Fidue A65 or something from LZ or... or... many options in sight
> 
> ...


 
 You know you want ZN1mini  
  
 Only place I could find ANV on is TaoBao : http://www.mistertao.com/beta/search?keyword=kz+anv&cn_keyword=KZ%2520ANV&type=all


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> You know you want ZN1mini
> 
> Only place I could find ANV on is TaoBao : http://www.mistertao.com/beta/search?keyword=kz+anv&cn_keyword=KZ%2520ANV&type=all


 
 Damn, 22$ for 2013 version... no-go as I need 2014 version and at this price I`ll drop this idea, unfortunately.
 I think ANV + another DD would be awesomesauce (but we`ll never know).
 Thanks anyway for Your effort!


----------



## anticute

coil said:


> Damn, 22$ for 2013 version... no-go as I need 2014 version and at this price I`ll drop this idea, unfortunately.
> I think ANV + another DD would be awesomesauce (but we`ll never know).
> Thanks anyway for Your effort!


 

 I have a pair of ANV that I don't use (never managed to get a good fit, so they're just lying around). Not 100% sure if they are 2014 version, but IIRC, they are. PM me and we'll work something out


----------



## EISENbricher

HDS3 arrived... Sadly this is a faulty pair and left earpiece sounds muffled. 
I've raised a dispute, let's see how it goes. 

Btw, from right side alone I can say that these will sound better than HDS1, if both side work. HDS3 sound airier, fuller and has solid, hitting bass which is not uncontrolled /bloated. I could clearly hear the vocals as well. 
In fact, even with this muffled left earpiece the amount of airy feel I get is phenomenal. These are easily the most airiest sounding KZs yet!

Size wise these are almost equal to HDS1. The metal used adds premium feel but isn't heavy. Cable used here is much different than stock KZ table, jack included. Connector is not gold plated. The mic looks excellent and premium.


----------



## Zeebit

My ED3 Youth, ED4 and HDS1 arrived today. Out of the box, the HDS1 is the best of the three. 
  
  
 Here are my quick impressions of the earphones. These are based out of the box using stock tips and with no EQ.
  
*ED3:*
*Bass: *Sub-bass is a little light but still has presence. Midbass has more body and more impact. Overall, the bass is quite controlled and the quality and quantity is pretty good. 
*Mids:* Vocals are little laid back but are clear with decent detail. It seems like the upper mids take a dip and sounds artificial.
*Highs: *Treble sounds rolled off but there is still some sparkle and details left. When things get fast, highs can sound messy. I'm not sure why but highs can get sibilant with some particular tracks despite being rolled off.
*Soundstage: *A little above average.
  
*ED4:*
*Bass: *More sub-bass than ED3. There is some bloat and can get a bit muddy at times. Midbass is more controlled than sub-bass but gets overpowered at times. I prefer the bass of the ED3
*Mids:* Still a little laid back but vocals are more forward than the ED3. Upper mids are a bit veiled.
*Highs: *Similar to ED3 but with more finesse and no sibilance.
*Soundstage: *Quite narrow. Can sound congested.
 These are very easy to drive. It gets loud fast.
  
*HDS1:*
*Bass: *Plenty of bass with this one both sub and mid and is quite controlled well. Best bass of the three, IMO.
*Mids:* Significantly more forward than the other two. Clarity and detail is also improved.
*Highs: *I'd say highs are quite neutral. Better than the other two. 
*Soundstage: *Above average.
 This sounds strangely similar to the Carbo Tenore but with less treble and a bit more bass.
  
  
 These are just my impressions and my experience and variety of earphones are limited so take these as a grain of salt.


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> HDS3 *sound airier, fuller and has solid, hitting bass which is not uncontrolled /bloated*. I could clearly hear the vocals as well.
> In fact, even with this muffled left earpiece the *amount of airy feel I get is phenomenal. These are easily the most airiest sounding KZs yet*!


 
 Oh man, You`re making me really confused which KZ to get next -.- Seems I will ditch ZN1mini plan and get HDS3 instead -.-
  


anticute said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Damn, 22$ for 2013 version... no-go as I need 2014 version and at this price I`ll drop this idea, unfortunately.
> ...


 

 I`m in EU, If You`re from outside that, then let it be as it is...
 But thanks for offering!


----------



## Shawn71

eisenbricher said:


> HDS3 arrived... Sadly this is a faulty pair and left earpiece sounds muffled.
> I've raised a dispute, let's see how it goes.
> 
> Btw, from right side alone I can say that these will sound better than HDS1, if both side work. HDS3 sound airier, fuller and has solid, hitting bass which is not uncontrolled /bloated. I could clearly hear the vocals as well.
> ...




You can check with a splitter too,if you have one........by connecting both hds1 & 3 but using just the good sides of L & R of them.that way you can certainly distinguish.


----------



## pack21

Wich KZ has the most open air and biggest soundstage?


I don't care about isolation.

Thx.


----------



## CoiL

Please read 2 posts upwards


----------



## Pulpfiction

I'm really curious about an EDR2 review but also comparison with HDS1 (and 3 maybe?). Maybe one of those simple but schmancy comparison tables EISEN used a while back in the thread . Does anyone know if the housing is the same size btw? From what I understand the EDR series had bigger a housing, and the HDS1 at least has a tiny one? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Looks like the EDR2 and HDS3 share the same housing (EDSE housing but in aluminium), but ofc scale could be off.. Rest does look different (end cap of housing, strain relief on buds, cables, mic and plug). Comparing descriptions HDS3 is listed as having a 6mm driver while the EDR2 has a 7mm, but both are listed as having the same 12ohm impedance and a sensitivity of 120dB per mW...

HDS3: http://m.aliexpress.com/item-desc/32585879411.html
EDR2: http://m.aliexpress.com/item-desc/32584175673.html


----------



## sgl54

coil said:


> ZN1mini is getting more and more attention from me... guess I have to get one and mod it.
> But I`m really struggling to order any more KZ`s because WOM-mod + H.H. tips combination sound very good already and my rational thinking says to save that money for bigger step-up.
> Probably Fidue A65 or something from LZ or... or... many options in sight:rolleyes:
> Only thing that makes me want ZN1mini is dual-driver configuration and good impressions from some of You (with similar sound signature taste like me). But then again changing cable will add cost (no, I don`t like that cable at all and I`ll measure impedance when I take it apart) and not so deep insertion might be issue for me.
> ...



Coil, Coil, it's going to happen anyway. You're going to mod because it's fun and unique. You'll also end up with something like the Fidue. Because you need something like that and they will be wonderful. Bottom line is there both fun and worth while pursuits in sound evolution. Plus you're in an enviornment ( Head-fi ) that supports and appreciates those pursuits. It's all good fun just don't lose the fun factor.


----------



## anticute

coil said:


> I`m in EU, If You`re from outside that, then let it be as it is...
> But thanks for offering!


 
 Me too, bro


----------



## EISENbricher

I just did HDS1 vs HDS3 comparison using splitter, making sure that there's enough current to drive both (used Topping NX1). 

My findings as follows, Please keep in mind that these are initial impressions of HDS3 and I'm using only one side of HDS3 which as @shawn71 suggested :

1. HDS3 had better micro details
2. HDS3 sound airier
3. HDS3 has more punch in bass

Can't comment on soundstage yet, for which I'll need both sides of earphone working correctly. 

*Verdict : * Overall in my opinion HDS3 is an upgrade over HDS1 not only in build quality but also in sound quality. Both have similar sound signature.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> ZN1mini is getting more and more attention from me... guess I have to get one and mod it.
> But I`m really struggling to order any more KZ`s because WOM-mod + H.H. tips combination sound very good already and my rational thinking says to save that money for bigger step-up.
> Probably Fidue A65 or something from LZ or... or... many options in sight
> 
> ...


 
 I have the Monk's but can not get them to sit where they need to for proper sq. They seem to have promise but the fit (or lack of) caused me to pretty much give up on them.


----------



## anticute

cadcam said:


> I have the Monk's but can not get them to sit where they need to for proper sq. They seem to have promise but the fit (or lack of) caused me to pretty much give up on them.


 
 I just received mine, and I'm struggling with the same problem. If I push them against my ears they sound good, but that's not really very practical.. I've been trying to find some kind of silicone nozzles or whatever to see if I can get a better fit, but so far no luck..
  
 Anyway, getting off topic


----------



## Lifted Andreas

eisenbricher said:


> I just did HDS1 vs HDS3 comparison using splitter, making sure that there's enough current to drive both (used Topping NX1).
> 
> My findings as follows, Please keep in mind that these are initial impressions of HDS3 and I'm using only one side of HDS3 which as @shawn71 suggested :
> 
> ...




Hey mate, which seller did you purchase these from? There are so many on eBay sellers in eBay and a significant price difference so I don't know whether to go for the cheapest or choose a specific store.


----------



## EISENbricher

lifted andreas said:


> Hey mate, which seller did you purchase these from? There are so many on eBay sellers in eBay and a significant price difference so I don't know whether to go for the cheapest or choose a specific store.


 
 Got them from KZ official flagship store on Ali. It was $8 at the time I made the purchase.


----------



## CADCAM

Got the EDR2 coming...I like the EDSE so much I couldn't resist. 
 Guess I'm not quite done riding the KZ train.


----------



## B9Scrambler

For those who were interested in a size comparison between the EDR2 and HDS3:
  

  
 Haven't listened to the HDS3 yet so I can't give any comparisons.


----------



## fallrsk

b9scrambler said:


> For those who were interested in a size comparison between the EDR2 and HDS3:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't listened to the HDS3 yet so I can't give any comparisons.


 
 Miniaturized, lol! Nice.
  


eisenbricher said:


> I just did HDS1 vs HDS3 comparison using splitter, making sure that there's enough current to drive both (used Topping NX1).
> 
> My findings as follows, Please keep in mind that these are initial impressions of HDS3 and I'm using only one side of HDS3 which as @shawn71 suggested :
> 
> ...


 
 That's a damn shame that we both have THE SAME ISSUE! I feel that something went amiss in their production line and ruined either all the HDS3 or just our batch (1st batch, I assume). My left side is practically useless.


----------



## EISENbricher

fallrsk said:


> Miniaturized, lol! Nice.
> 
> That's a damn shame that we both have THE SAME ISSUE! I feel that something went amiss in their production line and ruined either all the HDS3 or just our batch (1st batch, I assume). My left side is practically useless.


 
 Exactly.... let's see how the dispute goes. I really want a good piece of HDS3.


----------



## CADCAM

*Update on my S3's.*
 I ordered Grey with the new black cable and received the same clear, old KZ cable. The seller came through in the end though and shipped me a replacement in Grey with the black cable! Only issue is it's the mic version and I didn't need a mic. 
  
 Oh well the seller http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1819706 corrected the problem and deserves the credit...I'll buy from them again if needed in the future.


----------



## fallrsk

cadcam said:


> *Update on my S3's.*
> I ordered Grey with the new black cable and received the same clear, old KZ cable. The seller came through in the end though and shipped me a replacement in Grey with the black cable! Only issue is it's the mic version and I didn't need a mic.
> 
> Oh well the seller http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1819706 corrected the problem and deserves the credit...I'll buy from them again if needed in the future.


 
 I'll take the mic version..


----------



## carltonh

cadcam said:


> *Update on my S3's.*
> I ordered Grey with the new black cable and received the same clear, old KZ cable. The seller came through in the end though and shipped me a replacement in Grey with the black cable! Only issue is it's the mic version and I didn't need a mic.
> 
> Oh well the seller http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1819706 corrected the problem and deserves the credit...I'll buy from them again if needed in the future.


 

 Hmm. I also ordered the S3 from the same vendor on Feb. 3rd. However, I don't care about cable type, as long as it is the proper S3 (if really different from other ED3s).


----------



## kiyoshikiyomizu

coil said:


> Please read 2 posts upwards


 
 Wow , same problem here mate. I think ill ditch Zn1mini too, luckily lunar new year here so I cant buy it yet but its 3 days shipping anyway. I heard all bout the bass, then how about mid and treb? Actually im the one for airy, soundstage and the upper part, not so fond of bass.


----------



## CoiL

anticute said:


> cadcam said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Monk's but can not get them to sit where they need to for proper sq. They seem to have promise but the fit (or lack of) caused me to pretty much give up on them.
> ...


 
 That`s why I`m probably going to make wooden IEM from them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sorry for little more OT
  


eisenbricher said:


> I just did HDS1 vs HDS3 comparison using splitter, making sure that there's enough current to drive both (used Topping NX1).
> 
> My findings as follows, Please keep in mind that these are initial impressions of HDS3 and I'm using only one side of HDS3 which as @shawn71 suggested :
> 
> ...


 

 That`s really "bad" teasing! -.- I think I want HDS3


----------



## kaiteck

My kz zs1 arrived with a different box... Hope this is genuine kz product.









Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## kaiteck

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ruben123

eisenbricher said:


> I just did HDS1 vs HDS3 comparison using splitter, making sure that there's enough current to drive both (used Topping NX1).
> 
> My findings as follows, Please keep in mind that these are initial impressions of HDS3 and I'm using only one side of HDS3 which as @shawn71 suggested :
> 
> ...




Is it more v shaped (hds3)?


----------



## CADCAM

carltonh said:


> Hmm. I also ordered the S3 from the same vendor on Feb. 3rd. However, I don't care about cable type, as long as it is the proper S3 (if really different from other ED3s).


 
 I see zero physical difference between my blue ED3 Acme Youth and the first S3 I received other than the color of the body. Both are marked the same (_ED3_ _The Acme) _nowhere does it say S3.
 The replacement S3 I received does have a black cable but other than that if someone said all 3 are just KZ ED3 Acme's you'd never know different. What's weird is after a quick listen I may prefer the ED3 over either S3! I've been doing a lot of tip swapping lately so I need to decide on a tip for all 3, hopefully the same, and do a proper listening comparison. More to come...


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> Is it more v shaped (hds3)?



I guess not. In absolute terms HDS3 is mildly v shaped. Vocals aren't veiled or hidden. 

I'll reiterate my previous assumption... These sound very Tenore like. Similar warm, airy sound with sweet vocals. 



kaiteck said:


> My kz zs1 arrived with a different box... Hope this is genuine kz product.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pls post your impressions too


----------



## MAntunes

Which one would you recomend for listening to a bit of everything, but mainly rock and metal?
 There are so many options to choose from.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Hey guys long time no talk. 

How's everyone getting along with their KZ purchases? 

The ZN1 mini is pretty sweet from the few times I jammed it, and the hds3 is pretty decent as well. 

Still there's something about the HDS1 and Ed9 that gets most of my KZ listening time. 

Cheers fellas (and ladies)


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> Hey guys long time no talk.
> 
> How's everyone getting along with their KZ purchases?
> 
> ...





I concur, big 10-4 Buddy come on


----------



## paijo

coil said:


> Atm, trying ED9 brass nozzles without grills (shortened length from grill end). I was assuming that due to nozzle breathing holes bass will be lost cause ATE itself already has breathing ports but surprise surprise - no! By initial impression might even sound better than ED9 gold nozzles, Testing will go on


 
 hi coil... may i know, what cable which you used on this mod??it seems familiar, but i forgot what cable is it.


----------



## BoxVampire

Hi guys,bit new to this.Recently got the ED9 and there was a strange assortment of eartips in the box. The s/m/l tips weren't the "red core" hybrid ones I had seen in a previous <a href="http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/accessories/review-kz-ed9-kz-ate-ear-headphones-t3119184">xda review</a> and the middle size was just missing.
  
 Instead there were two hybrid tips on the filters which were the same size and a separate bag of foam tips.
  
 Is this normal? and does it actually make a difference?


----------



## CoiL

paijo said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Atm, trying ED9 brass nozzles without grills (shortened length from grill end). I was assuming that due to nozzle breathing holes bass will be lost cause ATE itself already has breathing ports but surprise surprise - no! By initial impression might even sound better than ED9 gold nozzles, Testing will go on
> ...


 

 For ATE-FF mod I used this "IE800" cable (it is not original and different material): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Semi-Finished-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-IE800-repair-upgrade-LBH1026/2044467318.html
 It`s good cable but for those who don`t like memory-wire, it`s not good choice because up from Y splitter to speaker units it has mem-w. Down from Y splitter to jack it is soft and flexible.
 With over-ear wearing style and such "custom" shape, I personally like that cable, though when not wearing it must be stored correctly.
 With WOM-mod I used different "IE800" cable that is much softer and has no memory, it came with YINJW "IE800" ceramic version. For WOM-mod I think non-MW cable suits better. I have some other cables incoming soon...


----------



## EISENbricher

hisoundfi said:


> Hey guys long time no talk.
> 
> How's everyone getting along with their KZ purchases?
> 
> ...



Missing you in this thread, man. Anyways thanks for the valuable opinion 

ZN1mini currently occupies most of my time. I see great potential in HDS3 but sadly my pair is imbalanced. Waiting for a good piece to arrive.


----------



## j0p3Y

Read good things about the KZ ZN1. Best bang for buck? Or a different candidate in this price range. Recently bought the Joyroom E107 and the **** UE. And already got the Xiaomi Piston 2, 3 and hybrid.


----------



## B9Scrambler

j0p3y said:


> Read good things about the KZ ZN1. Best bang for buck? Or a different candidate in this price range. Recently bought the Joyroom E107 and the **** UE. And already got the Xiaomi Piston 2, 3 and hybrid.




I'm still waiting on my ZN1 Mini, so in the interim I'll suggest the EDR2. Top class KZ.


----------



## paijo

coil said:


> For ATE-FF mod I used this "IE800" cable (it is not original and different material): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Semi-Finished-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-IE800-repair-upgrade-LBH1026/2044467318.html
> It`s good cable but for those who don`t like memory-wire, it`s not good choice because up from Y splitter to speaker units it has mem-w. Down from Y splitter to jack it is soft and flexible.
> With over-ear wearing style and such "custom" shape, I personally like that cable, though when not wearing it must be stored correctly.
> With WOM-mod I used different "IE800" cable that is much softer and has no memory, it came with YINJW "IE800" ceramic version. For WOM-mod I think non-MW cable suits better. I have some other cables incoming soon...


 
 I intend to replace mya ate cable, but for now, i don't have any candidate for it. Lately, i only do a reterminate the jack to viablue, and i think it didn't suit with my taste, it became too warm for me, the detail on high freq is missing. 
 After i watch your album, i want to mod the housing as yours, made the hole for the back grill, so the back grill will opened directly, good mod i think.


----------



## fallrsk

Sooo.. New KZ called the DT3? http://s.aliexpress.com/E3QryA7F

Also found what seems to be new C56R I think it was..


----------



## Shawn71

fallrsk said:
			
		

> .Sooo.. New KZ called the DT3? http://s.aliexpress.com/E3QryA7F
> 
> Also found what seems to be new C56R I think it was..




Thats the older model (FA model inspired) like dt5,both dual dynamic......


----------



## CoiL

paijo said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > For ATE-FF mod I used this "IE800" cable (it is not original and different material): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Semi-Finished-3-5mm-Earphone-audio-DIY-OFC-wire-cable-For-IE800-repair-upgrade-LBH1026/2044467318.html
> ...


 
 If You want details on high freq, then do nozzle mod too (ED9 brass nozzles) not only back grill. If You don`t want cable to change sound and become "warm", then measure Your ATE original cable impedance and make sure new cable doesn`t have it higher. Long time ago I measured stock cable impedances:


coil said:


> Another interesting observation. I had multimeter out for some electronics tinkering and thought I measure
> KZ IEM impedances too. Here they are:
> 
> * ATE
> ...


 
 Don`t remember what it became after cable change and don`t have multimeter around atm. Will measure it again and report back when possible.


----------



## paijo

coil said:


> If You want details on high freq, then do nozzle mod too (ED9 brass nozzles) not only back grill. If You don`t want cable to change sound and become "warm", then measure Your ATE original cable impedance and make sure new cable doesn`t have it higher. Long time ago I measured stock cable impedances:
> Don`t remember what it became after cable change and don`t have multimeter around atm. Will measure it again and report back when possible.


 
 hemmm... nozzle mod??i think i missed it... can you give me the link to your post about it??

 AFAIK, higher impedance, will give warmer sounding, so if i need to make it more detail, i think, it should be lower impedance. CMIIW.


----------



## CoiL

paijo said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > If You want details on high freq, then do nozzle mod too (ED9 brass nozzles) not only back grill. If You don`t want cable to change sound and become "warm", then measure Your ATE original cable impedance and make sure new cable doesn`t have it higher. Long time ago I measured stock cable impedances:
> ...


 
 Yes, nozzle mod - I`ve changed ATE nozzles for ED9 brass nozzles. I tried also gold nozzle and fiddled with breathing holes on ATE plastic body & brass nozzle.
 Sorry I don`t have time to search my post about it atm, I`m at work. But You can use thread search and use "ATE-FF" or "Forest Fairy" or ATE mod to find my posts about it.


> AFAIK, higher impedance, will give warmer sounding, so if i need to make it more detail, i think, it should be lower impedance. CMIIW.


 
 Correct, lower impedance cable should give more clear and detailed sound in theory. Sometimes differences are subtle, if any. Can`t tell about ATE for sure (haven`t compared impedance before & after) but I think it got more "clear" after cable change. But then again it may have been because of other mods or combination of them.
  
 I don`t know if You noticed my answer to user question in picture comments but here is list what I did:


> * Top plastic covers removed and replaced with wood backplates.
> * Golden mesh-grills taken from inside and installed inside wood backplate, right above driver unit without gap to driver shell.
> * Plastic nozzles have been cut off, sanded level/even, over-drilled holes and replaced with ED9 brass nozzles.
> * Body behind backplates has been sanded down to lower enclosure shape reaching out of ear.
> ...


----------



## paijo

coil said:


> Yes, nozzle mod - I`ve changed ATE nozzles for ED9 brass nozzles. I tried also gold nozzle and fiddled with breathing holes on ATE plastic body & brass nozzle.
> Sorry I don`t have time to search my post about it atm, I`m at work. But You can use thread search and use "ATE-FF" or "Forest Fairy" or ATE mod to find my posts about it.
> Correct, lower impedance cable should give more clear and detailed sound in theory. Sometimes differences are subtle, if any. Can`t tell about ATE for sure (haven`t compared impedance before & after) but I think it got more "clear" after cable change. But then again it may have been because of other mods or combination of them.
> 
> I don`t know if You noticed my answer to user question in picture comments but here is list what I did:


 
 wow... thanks a lot for the mod info...it will be so helpful to me.
 and for the nozzle mod, i will search it my self..thanks for keyword help.


----------



## CoiL

Np, ask if any help needed!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hardest part about nozzle mod is to make drilling-stand for drill bench to over-drill nozzle holes under correct angle into exact diameter & depth for ED9 nozzle winding part. In this pic You can see little shiny edge on the right earpiece under silicone tip edge:

  
 Edit: Oh, I totally forgot to mention that:
 * ED9 brass nozzle tip has been grinded shorter on top part to the next "edge" it has and inside hole edge has been grinded concave, like "trompet".
 * and to me (subjective) best combination was closed brass nozzle breathing hole with half-open ATE plastic enclosure hole. Though, leaving latter full-open + closed brass nozzle hole was also very good. More You close the hole, more it gives bass/percussion tightness and punch.
 * also, backplates/body angle has been set exactly to my ears shape/angle


----------



## CADCAM

boxvampire said:


> Hi guys,bit new to this.Recently got the ED9 and there was a strange assortment of eartips in the box. The s/m/l tips weren't the "red core" hybrid ones I had seen in a previous <a href="http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/accessories/review-kz-ed9-kz-ate-ear-headphones-t3119184">xda review</a> and the middle size was just missing.
> 
> Instead there were two hybrid tips on the filters which were the same size and a separate bag of foam tips.
> 
> Is this normal? and does it actually make a difference?


 
 Yes that's how i received mine.


----------



## CADCAM

j0p3y said:


> Read good things about the KZ ZN1. Best bang for buck? Or a different candidate in this price range. Recently bought the Joyroom E107 and the **** UE. And already got the Xiaomi Piston 2, 3 and hybrid.


 
 How do you like the Joyroom?


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Yes that's how i received mine.




Yep, I have found a real mixed bag on what tips you might get with my AliEx KZ sellers. Tips are usually the least of my worries though as I almost always use some other tips I have


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Yep, I have found a real mixed bag on what tips you might get with my AliEx KZ sellers. Tips are usually the least of my worries though as I almost always use some other tips I have


 
 Me too...I have a egg carton I use to separate and store my tips, works well. I've been trying the stock Puro and Auvio tips on everything and am really impressed with both. I just realized I haven't tried either on my ED9's!! I've switched out 2 pairs of iem's to the Puro tips and 3 pairs to the Auvio. A discernible increase in sq for me.


----------



## CoiL

Still, there can be some surprises among tips. It`s good to have large collection of tips and not to put all the bets on 2-3 favourites, imho.
 For example, while JVC Spiral Dot and one no-name tips are my favs, I got really big change in SQ with Huawei Honor tips @ WOM-mod.
 Before it was almost on par with ATE-FF mod but now I`m clearly favouring WOM-mod over it. It`s perfect seal/fit/comfort/SQ with those tips and this particular IEM.


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Still, there can be some surprises among tips. It`s good to have large collection of tips and not to put all the bets on 2-3 favourites, imho.
> For example, while JVC Spiral Dot and one no-name tips are my favs, I got really big change in SQ with Huawei Honor tips @ WOM-mod.
> Before it was almost on par with ATE-FF mod but now I`m clearly favouring WOM-mod over it. It`s perfect seal/fit/comfort/SQ with those tips and this particular IEM.


 

 Exactly, I don't think some realize just how much tips can change the iem signature but I'll also says sometime it's not real discern-able right off the bat, you really need to play through complete tracks and especially ones you know very well. Coil if I've not said it before I love your mod work on your iem's


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Still, there can be some surprises among tips. It`s good to have large collection of tips and not to put all the bets on 2-3 favourites, imho.
> For example, while JVC Spiral Dot and one no-name tips are my favs, I got really big change in SQ with Huawei Honor tips @ WOM-mod.
> Before it was almost on par with ATE-FF mod but now I`m clearly favouring WOM-mod over it. It`s perfect seal/fit/comfort/SQ with those tips and this particular IEM.


 
 I saw the spiral dots and ordered them right up but haven't found an iem they work with for me. I also think they may be just a touch too small as I'm finding although I always used small tips I'm getting a better seal and good results with medium or medium\small.
 I had already gone through all my iem's and installed the best sounding tips (for me) but when I got the Puro's in I really liked the way the tips felt and they looked to be very well made. I contacted the company and received a spare set of tips so I was able to try them with my other iem's. Some with great results. Now with the Auvio tips I'm finding an improvement even over the Puro's. Does it end?
  
 BTW Do you use spiral dots on any of your KZ's? 
  
 Just subscribed to the tip rolling thread and saw those Huawei's...guess you have to buy the hp to get the tips and Coil did you get a variety of sizes??


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Still, there can be some surprises among tips. It`s good to have large collection of tips and not to put all the bets on 2-3 favourites, imho.
> For example, while JVC Spiral Dot and one no-name tips are my favs, I got really big change in SQ with Huawei Honor tips @ WOM-mod.
> Before it was almost on par with ATE-FF mod but now I`m clearly favouring WOM-mod over it. It`s perfect seal/fit/comfort/SQ with those tips and this particular IEM.



That FF mod looks dope.. You can literally sell it for more than 100bucks


----------



## tusharthegamer

quick question guys ! i got edse , ed8m , ed9 ,ed3 ,hsd1 but have heard good things about zn1 and zn1 mini! so which one should i get now?

 one more question : got these also "xb90ex" , how does zs1 compared to xb90? anything for basshead in KZ series?


----------



## EISENbricher

tusharthegamer said:


> quick question guys ! i got edse , ed8m , ed9 ,ed3 ,hsd1 but have heard good things about zn1 and zn1 mini! so which one should i get now?
> 
> 
> one more question : got these also "xb90ex" , how does zs1 compared to xb90? anything for basshead in KZ series?



I have had XB90EX. 
I will definitely recommend ZN1mini as an upgrade over XB90EX. 

You will get the big soundstage as XB90EX in addition to tighter bass, batter highs and mids with ZN1mini.


----------



## carltonh

eisenbricher said:


> I have had XB90EX.
> I will definitely recommend ZN1mini as an upgrade over XB90EX.
> 
> You will get the big soundstage as XB90EX in addition to tighter bass, batter highs and mids with ZN1mini.


 
 Just stating an opposing opinion, I think my XB90 is better than the ZN1 Mini in nearly all ways except bass quantity with flat EQ. Both are still well worth their price. For me, a bass impact speed is more important that quantity, and the XB90 just has that speed.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Still, there can be some surprises among tips. It`s good to have large collection of tips and not to put all the bets on 2-3 favourites, imho.
> ...


 
 Thanks!
  


cadcam said:


> BTW Do you use spiral dots on any of your KZ's?


 
 Yes, I have smallest size JVC`s and I use them occasionally with ATE and ED10. I don`t know what size JVC`s You have but they offer s/sm/m/ml/l tips and maybe You should try different size?
  


> Just subscribed to the tip rolling thread and saw those Huawei's...guess you have to buy the hp to get the tips and Coil did you get a variety of sizes??


 
 Yes, unfortunately they don`t sell those tips anywhere independently. They come with 3 sizes and smallest ones have little longer "tube".
 I`m waiting now for Huast H10 iem for similar tips. Will give feedback on tip-rolling thread when I get them.
  


eisenbricher said:


> That FF mod looks dope.. You can literally sell it for more than 100bucks


 
 LOL, thanks!


----------



## Podster

tusharthegamer said:


> quick question guys ! i got edse , ed8m , ed9 ,ed3 ,hsd1 but have heard good things about zn1 and zn1 mini! so which one should i get now?
> 
> 
> one more question : got these also "xb90ex" , how does zs1 compared to xb90? anything for basshead in KZ series?




My vote would be the Mini


----------



## EISENbricher

carltonh said:


> Just stating an opposing opinion, I think my XB90 is better than the ZN1 Mini in nearly all ways except bass quantity with flat EQ. Both are still well worth their price. For me, a bass impact speed is more important that quantity, and the XB90 just has that speed.



Your opinion would be more credible than mine because mine is from memory. And anyway my XB90 was aged when I decided to retire it... Maybe the sound degraded with time. Tge rubber quality used for covering sides isn't good and one of the caps of my XB90 came off. Had to superglue it.


----------



## kaiteck

Wassup

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## j0p3Y

cadcam said:


> How do you like the Joyroom?


I have had just little time with them but they sound surprisingly good. Quite balanced with a hint of sibilance, but I have to listen more before I can say for sure..


----------



## j0p3Y

b9scrambler said:


> I'm still waiting on my ZN1 Mini, so in the interim I'll suggest the EDR2. Top class KZ.


I'm puzzled when searching on AliExpress. There are ZN1 's to be had for USD 11, 00. But they are the non-amplified ones. Also the KZ ZS1 is to be found, looks the same as the ZN1 unamplified. Which is which? 
ZS 1 had great reviews..


----------



## raybone0566

j0p3y said:


> I have had just little time with them but they sound surprisingly good. Quite balanced with a hint of sibilance, but I have to listen more before I can say for sure..[/quot I was quite surprised at how good they are. Very tiny but big sound. Those micro drivers are amazing aren't they


----------



## emester

I think I received fakes of the ed9. Try as I can, I cannot for the life of me get the brass filters off. they seem to permanent. I notice most people get the genuine ones on Alibaba, however i got my pair on Amazon from what looks the official KZ dealer. Kinda confused


----------



## crabdog

emester said:


> I think I received fakes of the ed9. Try as I can, I cannot for the life of me get the brass filters off. they seem to permanent. I notice most people get the genuine ones on Alibaba, however i got my pair on Amazon from what looks the official KZ dealer. Kinda confused


 
 The filters are very easy to change on my ed9. Just twist counter-clockwise to take them off. Would be a bummer if you got fakes. Sound difference between brass and gold filters is HUGE. I prefer the golds with the largest tips although this makes the highs fairly recessed.


----------



## CADCAM

If anyone is interested I just listed my KZ S3's on the for sale forum for half price. I'm selling off some of the iem's I don't listen to...just have way too many.
  
 My ZS1's are on feebay.
  
 My 2 sets of ED10's are sold.
  
 If anyone is interested message me with what model you like as I probably have it.


----------



## carltonh

I know it's not KZ, but I just got the Yinjw Wooden V2, and am thoroughly impressed. It is like crossing the ZN1 mini with the HDS3 (my favorite KZ out of 5 I own) but with a faster, more impactful responce, and a little better micro-details than any KZ I've heard. If the HDS3 is the best IEM I've ever heard under $10, then the Wooden V2 is the best under $15, maybe equal to the LG Quadbeat 3 which is probably the best I've heard under $20.


----------



## CoiL

I have both, V1 and V2 Yinjw woodies (I have rebuilt shells) and despite having littlebit elevated bass in stock configuration, I find their overall SQ littlebit better than most KZ IEM`s. They do need some tweaking to get bass more balanced and tighter. In stock configuration bass is littlebit "soft" but not boomy or overpowering, just small lack in tightness. What is interesting, their bass doesn`t bleed into other frequencies (to my ears) and they do need perfect fit/seal to really "shine". My favourite budget IEM atm is V1 WOM-mod which is slightly better than ATE-FF mod but they are not far apart. While I really like ATE-FF mod large soundstage (with retained vocal focus), I find it`s highs to be littlebit "grainy" sometimes (cymbals/hi-hat) and on some recordings back-vocals/details littlebit too laid-back. Yinjw`s have better all-around imaging/soundstage (also quite large) for different genres than ATE imo.
 In stock configuration (with silicone tips) I find ATE and Yinjw V2 woodies to be almost in same league/level, just little different presentation/imaging but I can see V2 being good option when ATE fit is an issue.


----------



## EISENbricher

carltonh said:


> I know it's not KZ, but I just got the Yinjw Wooden V2, and am thoroughly impressed. It is like crossing the ZN1 mini with the HDS3 (my favorite KZ out of 5 I own) but with a faster, more impactful responce, and a little better micro-details than any KZ I've heard. If the HDS3 is the best IEM I've ever heard under $10, then the Wooden V2 is the best under $15, maybe equal to the LG Quadbeat 3 which is probably the best I've heard under $20.


 
 How would you describe HDS3's sound signature? Is it airy? 

 I have received an imbalanced pair but from whatever I could gather from its sound I definitely think that this can be my favorite KZ. Already ordered for a new HDS3 for better evaluation..


----------



## carltonh

eisenbricher said:


> How would you describe HDS3's sound signature? Is it airy?
> 
> I have received an imbalanced pair but from whatever I could gather from its sound I definitely think that this can be my favorite KZ. Already ordered for a new HDS3 for better evaluation..


 

 A little bit airy, more so tan the KZ ATE-S, ED10, ED4, ED8, ZN1 Mini I own (So I guess out of 6). But I think of it as warm balanced. If I think of the Puro IEM500 as balanced, then the HDS3 adds a slight but even bump to the mids, midbass, subbass, but not upper mids or highs. All this is still a small bump, so pretty balances still relative to 90% of IEMs, including KZs, but I wouldn't describe it as a strong airy presentation. Maybe the EDR2, S3, or Z1/S4  when they arrive would be a better competitor for that when they arrive here, already ordered.


----------



## CoiL

@carltonh, how would You compare ATE soundstage vs. Yinjw V2 ? Though, You seem to have S version of ATE unfortunately.


----------



## carltonh

coil said:


> @carltonh, how would You compare ATE soundstage vs. Yinjw V2 ? Though, You seem to have S version of ATE unfortunately.


 

 I just A/B'ed the V2 and ATE-S, and they are extremely similar soundstage and SQ. The primary sound difference is the V2 has a bit more upper treble extension, but not much more, they are both warm bass centric, but definitely not V-shaped. I think the V2 has the tiniest bet more details, but that may just be a product of the treble extension. I don't use the ATE-S much because they take time to get a good fit (I eventually can). I have J-Lab large tips on the ATE-S, which I think are about identical to Spiral Dots. These make the end of the ATE-S nozzle almost flush with the front of the tip. This unusual config seems to maximize the highs for my ears.


----------



## B9Scrambler

*EDR2 vs HDS3*​  ​ ​  
 ​ Since I'm finally feeling better, and have been all talk about the EDR2 since I got them with very little actual information dropped, I figured now would be a good time to compare them with the HDS3 which I have also put a lot of ear time into recently. So, here we go:
  
 I have enjoyed my time with the HDS3, but I feel that the EDR2 is a step above in every way. The HDS3 has an airy, slightly thin presentation, especially when coming from the HDS1 which was somewhat intimate and occasionally thick sounding. The EDR2 is just as airy sounding, but it has much better separation and clarity. The HDS3 sounds a little claustrophobic when a/bing them since sounds lack their own distinct space. While the HDS3 tones down the midbass bloat the HDS1 could occasionally exhibit, it still sounds a bit midbassy compared to the EDR2. It is also the more v-shaped of the two and vocals, especially female, do not come across as clear as they do on the EDR2. The HDS3 exhibits some hollowness in it's bass slam, and doesn't dig into the same subbass regions of the EDR2. The HDS3 also isn't as natural sounding as the EDR2. For some reason the HDS3 comes across to me as being slightly incoherent, possibly due to an oddly boosted lower midrange, and as a result I still think even the HDS1 is the better iem. 
  
 The EDR2 isn't a v-shaped bass monster. In fact, I would almost go so far as to call it the most balanced KZ to date. It does exhibit a mild boost to the subbass regions and treble, but they are minor. They lean towards being slightly warm sounding. Where the EDR2 impresses me most is in it's clarity and detail, and it's ability to move sound around accurately. These are areas where only the ANV come close, with the EDR2 most clearly besting it in soundstage presentation. 
  
 Also to note, when using the EDR2 or HDS3 for calls (no mic on the EDR2, used just for improved listening), voices comes across miles more clear on the EDR2. They sound very thin and brittle through the HDS3 which I found a little disconcerting. On the plus side, the in-line mic and control setup on the HDS3 is really convenient and works excellently with my HTC One M8. I would love to see KZ carry it over to other models.
  
 In summary, if I had to choose between the two I would take the EDR2 hands down. It costs less and sounds better, though you do end up giving up the in-line mic of the HDS3 which I really like. The HDS3 is a good iem, but I feel it lags behind the best of recent KZs (that I've tried) in sound quality; ie. EDR2, ED9, ED4, HDS1, ED3c "The Acme" (and the ANV, which is an oldie but a goodie).
  
 - B9


----------



## carltonh

B9, it is interesting you hear the HDS3 very differently than I do. If you think it hollow, I'm not sure you'd like the Puro IEM500. But I don't have the other phones you compare against either. However, the EDR2 that I have on the way DOES include a mic, and was under $6 with a mic shipped free from Gearbest.com. Sounds like I will like it.


----------



## carltonh

I'll also note that I have Sony Hybrids on my HDS3 and they really get the most out of it.


----------



## CoiL

carltonh said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > @carltonh
> ...



Thanks for info! Despite You having S version of ATE, I find your impressions similar to mine. Yinjw v2 has better microdetails in highs and soundstage is similar with ATE having slight more frontal depth but v2 slight better transparency and separation. Also instruments/sounds own soundspace/scape is more separated/distinctive and transparent on V2.


----------



## Pulpfiction

Hey B9,
  
 Happy to hear you're feeling better! Your review/comparison makes me a happy bunny ! I hope the 2 pairs of EDR2 coming my way (with mic) sound as you described, because I very much like what you wrote. Balanced, with slightly boosted subbass and treble, airy, good soundstage and nice clarity and detail is ticking lots of boxes!
  
 I'm enjoying my Monk earbuds so much atm that IEM's will just get some listening time when I need better isolation, and want to hear more subbass. I don't have the cash to blow on higher tier stuff. Having slightly boosted subbass and a good soundstage will hopefully prevent me from missing the ATE, and having a more airy sound with decent clarity and detail (does slightly boosted treble translate into decent treble extension ? ) will hopefully not make me miss the Monk's too much when going with IEMs. Fingers crossed!
  
 Either way, I'll have to be patient, ordered with a seller that sold me 2x EDR2 with mic for 10$ but he's taking 2 weeks to process the payment. In the meantime he changed the price to 9$50 per pair.. It'll probably take 2.5 to 3 months before I get to rock these here in Brazil.. You guys are lucky  ! I look forward to more KZ reviews in the meanwhile, and other people's experiences with the HDS3, Z1/S4, ZN1 Mini and EDR2.


----------



## zzhead

b9scrambler said:


> *EDR2 vs HDS3*​  ​ ​
> ​ Since I'm finally feeling better, and have been all talk about the EDR2 since I got them with very little actual information dropped, I figured now would be a good time to compare them with the HDS3 which I have also put a lot of ear time into recently. So, here we go:
> 
> I have enjoyed my time with the HDS3, but I feel that the EDR2 is a step above in every way. The HDS3 has an airy, slightly thin presentation, especially when coming from the HDS1 which was somewhat intimate and occasionally thick sounding. The EDR2 is just as airy sounding, but it has much better separation and clarity. The HDS3 sounds a little claustrophobic when a/bing them since sounds lack their own distinct space. While the HDS3 tones down the midbass bloat the HDS1 could occasionally exhibit, it still sounds a bit midbassy compared to the EDR2. It is also the more v-shaped of the two and vocals, especially female, do not come across as clear as they do on the EDR2. The HDS3 exhibits some hollowness in it's bass slam, and doesn't dig into the same subbass regions of the EDR2. The HDS3 also isn't as natural sounding as the EDR2. For some reason the HDS3 comes across to me as being slightly incoherent, possibly due to an oddly boosted lower midrange, and as a result I still think even the HDS1 is the better iem.
> ...


 
  Hi Would it be possible to have a comparison between EDR2  AND ED3?
 TNX


----------



## Zeebit

Crap. Now I want to get more KZs. This is getting ridiculous. I already have the HDS1. I'd like to hear your opinions on the HDS1 vs HDS2 vs HDS3.


----------



## mimuweb

Hi guys. Received my KZ9's.... A silly question. How remove the filter? It seems very tight... 
  
 Edit: solved! I have to push and turn right.


----------



## anticute

mimuweb said:


> Hi guys. Received my KZ9's.... A silly question. How remove the filter? It seems very tight...
> 
> Edit: solved! I have to push and turn right.


 

 If you mean ED9, you should be able to just unscrew them..


----------



## CoiL

I think he is talking about some other IEM? ED9 doesn`t have any push & turn right "system"


----------



## Podster

mimuweb said:


> Hi guys. Received my KZ9's.... A silly question. How remove the filter? It seems very tight...
> 
> Edit: solved! I have to push and turn right.


 

 They are just threaded but they do screw tight and I've never had mine back out either. I find it easier to unscrew them by gripping the rubber ear tips but if you have thin tips put some old dog'er tips on to take them on and off before putting your listening tips back on


----------



## DangerClose

carltonh said:


> I know it's not KZ, but I just got the Yinjw Wooden V2, and am thoroughly impressed. It is like crossing the ZN1 mini with the HDS3 (my favorite KZ out of 5 I own) but with a faster, more impactful responce, and a little better micro-details than any KZ I've heard. If the HDS3 is the best IEM I've ever heard under $10, then the Wooden V2 is the best under $15, maybe equal to the LG Quadbeat 3 which is probably the best I've heard under $20.


 
 Do you mean the IE800 V2?  Or is "Wooden V2" the actual name?


----------



## carltonh

dangerclose said:


> Do you mean the IE800 V2?  Or is "Wooden V2" the actual name?


 

 The Aliexpress pages often mention IE800 in the title, but I don't think that is part of the name, just an attempt to capture search terms for high end IEMs. It isn't physically or (I assume) sonicly a clone. (And there are definitely some physical clones of the IE800 that I haven't heard.) On the box, nothing except for "YINJW" is in English. I've assumed from what other people have posted, "Wooden V2" is as close to the proper model name as we will get unless a native Chinese speaker wants to correct us.


----------



## Ruben123

pulpfiction said:


> Hey B9,
> 
> Happy to hear you're feeling better! Your review/comparison makes me a happy bunny ! I hope the 2 pairs of EDR2 coming my way (with mic) sound as you described, because I very much like what you wrote. Balanced, with slightly boosted subbass and treble, airy, good soundstage and nice clarity and detail is ticking lots of boxes!
> 
> ...




I've ordered mine too some weeks ago and still not shipped yet... Getting on my nerves, because Chinese NY is already few days ago.


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> I've ordered mine too some weeks ago and still not shipped yet... Getting on my nerves, because Chinese NY is already few days ago.


 

 Alright guys, I guess I'm finally going to add a pair of EDR2's to my cart. Guess one can never have too many KZ's! Goodbye cash
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Alright guys, I guess I'm finally going to add a pair of EDR2's to my cart. Guess one can never have too many KZ's! Goodbye cash
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 YOu could pick something worse to add. And they can easily be found for under 7 CAD, which is what, 50 cents US right now? I put em up there with the Monk in the value for your buck category.


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Alright guys, I guess I'm finally going to add a pair of EDR2's to my cart. Guess one can never have too many KZ's! Goodbye cash
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## EISENbricher

Same here, here goes an EDR2 in my cart too thanks to hype lol
 I hope they live up to it. I'd love to hear some improvement on treble side. The main area where KZ is yet to shine the most. I'd love airy highs without sibilence.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Just enjoying my EDR2 while out at the laundromat. They don't quite have the isolation necessary for this purpose, but they're not doing too badly.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Just enjoying my EDR2 while out at the laundromat. They don't quite have the isolation necessary for this purpose, but they're not doing too badly.


 
 Waiting for them for too long and the fact that mine are not even shipped yet makes me not really any happier! I want them so bad.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Waiting for them for too long and the fact that mine are not even shipped yet makes me not really any happier! I want them so bad.




That sucks  I've been getting "lucky" with shipping. It's always on the plane within 48-72 hours, and to my doorstep within 30-45 days. Only twice have my purchases not made it, and they were way off (sent to the wrong country each time, lol).


----------



## crabdog

Just received my EDR2 tonight and ootb they're a pretty big disappointment for me. They were meant to be bassy! However the bass is hardly present at all. Even my M6 Pros trump these in bass. The mids and highs are nice and clear though. They definitely sound better from my PC (Creative® Sound Core3D™ Quad-Core Audio Processor) than from my Note 5 but not what I was hoping for. Maybe they'll improve after some burn-in?


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Same here, here goes an EDR2 in my cart too thanks to hype lol
> I hope they live up to it. I'd love to hear some improvement on treble side. The main area where KZ is yet to shine the most. I'd love airy highs without sibilence.


 

 Sounds like you might be in luck on that by crabdog's post above!


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


>


 

 crabdog's post is scarring me a little
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've only added the EDR2 to my cart but yet to pull that trigger, I just received (finally) my black ED9's and after ordering a dozen pair of KZ's I finally get one of these
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## CADCAM

crabdog said:


> Just received my EDR2 tonight and ootb they're a pretty big disappointment for me. They were meant to be bassy! However the bass is hardly present at all. Even my M6 Pros trump these in bass. The mids and highs are nice and clear though. They definitely sound better from my PC (Creative® Sound Core3D™ Quad-Core Audio Processor) than from my Note 5 but not what I was hoping for. Maybe they'll improve after some burn-in?


 
 Start tip rolling...I've found the right tip can make all the difference. Even when you think you have the right tip put it aside and roll some more.
  
 My Zircon, Piston 2 & ED3 acme youth are prime examples. Good luck!
  
 btw my EDR2 are on the way and I'll post impressions after I get them in and they go through the burn-in and tip rolling process. I've heard good things so I'm hopeful.


----------



## crabdog

Do you mean foam tips or the supplied silicone tips? I'll try the ones from my ed9 when I get to work tomorrow. I'm only new to this game and don't have an abundant stash of tips (yet ).


----------



## CADCAM

crabdog said:


> Do you mean foam tips or the supplied silicone tips? I'll try the ones from my ed9 when I get to work tomorrow. I'm only new to this game and don't have an abundant stash of tips (yet ).


 
 What size are you?


----------



## Pulpfiction

I'm also quite new to this Crabdog, but decided to order different tip styles with my first IEM's for exactly that purpose (tip rolling). Original SpinFits & Sony Hybrids seem to be much liked around here, but those are a bit too pricey for me unfortunately. I found the foam ones that came with ATE nice but prefer silicone myself because they don't wear out and can be cleaned. My favorites so far are these biflange tips - 
http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32517832056.html?tracelog=storedetail2mobilesitedetail
They made a big improvement in fit (so also sound & comfort) for me over the bundled silicone KZ tips I got - KZ bundled medium & large silicone tips plus the foamies (medium)? My ear canals are small on the right to small/medium on the left so the stock silicones really didn't do justice to the IEMs for my ears..

I also ordered some whirlwind tips from the same seller that should arrive soon. You can spot them by the silicone ribs connecting the rubber core of the tip to the skirt that look like a swirl.


----------



## crabdog

Ah I see I misinterpreted the term somewhat. I'll try all the various tips I have and will get more soon as well. So far the large tips seem to be the best fit for me.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The EDR2 are not meant to be bassy at all. They're balanced, or as close as you can get from a KZ. If you went in expecting a bassy iem, I can see why you would be disappointed crabdog


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> The EDR2 are not meant to be bassy at all. They're balanced, or as close as you can get from a KZ. If you went in expecting a bassy iem, I can see why you would be disappointed @crabdog


 
 If that's the case it seems I was misled by this site:
  
http://iwantheadset.com/product/100-original-kz-edr2-strong-bass-in-ear-earphone-metal-clear-sound-music-wired-hifi-headset-enthusiast-special-use-earburd/


----------



## carltonh

crabdog said:


> If that's the case it seems I was misled by this site:
> 
> http://iwantheadset.com/product/100-original-kz-edr2-strong-bass-in-ear-earphone-metal-clear-sound-music-wired-hifi-headset-enthusiast-special-use-earburd/


 

 "Strong Bass" written in English in any Chinese advertisement still mostly in Chinese should never be believed. Occasionally it will happen to be true, but it is the most abused advertising phrase on Aliexpress and most similar websites. It is like boutique tube guitar amps being called "Class A".


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Sounds like you might be in luck on that by crabdog's post above!


 
 Well... I hope. 
  
 Let's see how it goes. It's still long way though, might take a month to arrive as usual. Wish I had a local reseller here.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Well... I hope.
> 
> Let's see how it goes. It's still long way though, might take a month to arrive as usual. Wish I had a local reseller here.


 

 Yeah well I know I'll pull the trigger anyway because there has yet to be a KZ (at least those that I've ordered) that could not be elevated to their potential with the right tips
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of course Carlton is also correct on the language breakdown especially with AliEx iem adds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 According to them every KZ iem they sell sounds like they have a 15" woofer in them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Yeah well I know I'll pull the trigger anyway because there has yet to be a KZ (at least those that I've ordered) that could not be elevated to their potential with the right tips
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 100% in agreement...swapping tips has more of an effect on sound than switching pads on a full size can IMO. The location of the driver probably has a lot to do with this. I never realized how much you could effect the sound by switching tips it's amazing. Even if I think I've got the best possible tip if a new option presents itself I always take a listen. I thought the Puro tips sounded best on one iem I have but found the Auvio tips even better.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> 100% in agreement...swapping tips has more of an effect on sound than switching pads on a full size can IMO. The location of the driver probably has a lot to do with this. I never realized how much you could effect the sound by switching tips it's amazing. Even if I think I've got the best possible tip if a new option presents itself I always take a listen. I thought the Puro tips sounded best on one iem I have but found the Auvio tips even better.


 

 What's even crazier about that is a .50 cent pair of tips can really make a $6 to $12 pair of iem's challenge iem's costing as much as three times that


----------



## AsheshM

I am about to receive KZ S3 very soon. How are the stock tips? Any tips suggestions??


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> crabdog's post is scarring me a little:eek: I've only added the EDR2 to my cart but yet to pull that trigger, I just received (finally) my black ED9's and after ordering a dozen pair of KZ's I finally get one of these:rolleyes: LOL




Ordered a 2nd pair yesterday now they're still cheap so I could get at least 1 pair at this price... And both got shipped now! Now I've got 2 edr2s shipped to my house. Oh well... If they're that good...


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Ordered a 2nd pair yesterday now they're still cheap so I could get at least 1 pair at this price... And both got shipped now! Now I've got 2 edr2s shipped to my house. Oh well... If they're that good...


 

 I'm still diggin' on my new black ED9's, I'm sure they will be sweet Ruben. May take a few tip changes but you'll get there


----------



## Pulpfiction

Status on mine (EDR2's) finally changed to shipped aswell. Really looking forward tbh. Kinda happy I arrived at the KZ party late or I'd probably have most models and a pissed off girlfriend by now . Between ATE, Zn1 Mini & EDR2 I should have my preferences covered I think, if ZN1 Mini is too similar to ATE (seems like that from descriptions, same sound sig but improved) I may sell my least favorite of the two. Even though they don't end up *completely* flush with my ear I have no comfort issues with the ATE though, also like the cable & the cable weights - will see what I think of sound & wearing comfort when the ZN1 Mini arrives..


----------



## j0p3Y

j0p3y said:


> I'm puzzled when searching on AliExpress. There are ZN1 's to be had for USD 11, 00. But they are the non-amplified ones. Also the KZ ZS1 is to be found, looks the same as the ZN1 unamplified. Which is which?
> ZS 1 had great reviews..


anyone? Are the unamped ZN1 on AliExpress the ZS1s or some just fake earphones on the hype bandwagon ? 
Pictures show printed ZN1 markings on the earpieces while the amplifier I'm the cable is missing.... :-/


----------



## carltonh

j0p3y said:


> anyone? Are the unamped ZN1 on AliExpress the ZS1s or some just fake earphones on the hype bandwagon ?
> Pictures show printed ZN1 markings on the earpieces while the amplifier I'm the cable is missing.... :-/


 

 There is a ZN1 Mini version that is unamplified, and great for the price if you want a bass-centric, non-V-shaped IEM. The ZS1 is externally the same, but internally different, and consensus is that it is not as good, but an extreme bass monster if that is what you want.


----------



## kaiteck

j0p3y said:


> j0p3y said:
> 
> 
> > I'm puzzled when searching on AliExpress. There are ZN1 's to be had for USD 11, 00. But they are the non-amplified ones. Also the KZ ZS1 is to be found, looks the same as the ZN1 unamplified. Which is which?
> ...




Ya, I'm also not sure abt zn1 mini. It cant be found in chinese taobao which is weird.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## EISENbricher

Well they are not fake, just that KZ now has two version of ZN1. One is amped (called ZN1 of course) and other is unamped (called ZN1mini). 

ZS1 looks very similar but sounds entirely different. It's a bass monster, while ZN1mini is more like ATE with bigger soundstage. 


Few cosmetic differences between ZS1 and ZN1mini that you may use for identification:
- ZS1 has memory wire, ZN1mini doesn't. 
- ZS1 cable is thinner and longer. ZN1mini cable is thicker and shorter. 
- The printed name, of course


----------



## crabdog

Came back to this thread to say that after some burn-in and "tip rolling" the sound on my EDR2 is now much better. Even more so after I swapped the clip from a spare cable I had laying around. The two KZ cables I have suffer really badly from microphony and a clip makes a huge difference. Now my biggest problem is deciding between the EDR2 and ED9 because I'm enjoying them both.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Well they are not fake, just that KZ now has two version of ZN1. One is amped (called ZN1 of course) and other is unamped (called ZN1mini).
> 
> ZS1 looks very similar but sounds entirely different. It's a bass monster, while ZN1mini is more like ATE with bigger soundstage.
> 
> ...




Nice Job, you are right on the money. ZS1 was (what I believe anyway) a quuck fix by KZ when a lot if people did not like the amp or it's location on the cable lead. Once again I believe KZ just recabled that first ZN1 and called it a ZS1. They quuckly discovered that the driver network needed some attention and they corrected the ZS1 with the awesome IMO ZN1 Mini


----------



## EISENbricher

*Update : *KZ official flagship store were fantastic at support as always and resolved my issue (defective pair of HDS3). 
 Also I ordered an EDR2 from gearbest, costing <$6 so why not! Let's see how hype worthy these are. Also a VE Monk earbud coming. Not bad for $5 I heard : D
  
 Quote:


podster said:


> Nice Job, you are right on the money. ZS1 was (what I believe anyway) a quuck fix by KZ when a lot if people did not like the amp or it's location on the cable lead. Once again I believe KZ just recabled that first ZN1 and called it a ZS1. They quuckly discovered that the driver network needed some attention and they corrected the ZS1 with the awesome IMO ZN1 Mini


 
 ZN1 I believe was oriented towards those who don't have audiophile DACs and/or AMPs. The EQBOX was aimed at serving the purpose of amping the weak output of smartphones or laptop/desktops. 
  
 But the other side of users already have decent sound sources and didn't want an extra modifier in the sound stage. It made perfect sense to release a version without the EQBOX. I remember some users including me did request for unamped ZN1. 
  
 I thought that ZS1 is the unamped ZN1 (same drivers) but like you said it was not. Fortunately we now have ZN1 mini. The thing is sweet. 
  
 This just proves one thing, that KZ is listening to customers. *KZ pls a BA driver earphone pls * are you listening?


----------



## fallrsk

EISENbricher you're gonna love the monks! Also, let's hope your new pair of HDS3 aren't plagued with balance issues once again. I'll be waiting to hear from ya before i grab another pair.. but i'm a bit surprised there haven't been any new KZ after dropping the EDR2 and HDS3 on us like that lol!


----------



## nolife1123

One could get the EDR2 for 4.1$ from gearbest if you use the gearbest points to discount it by 30% !


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> ZN1 I believe was oriented towards those who don't have audiophile DACs and/or AMPs. The EQBOX was aimed at serving the purpose of amping the weak output of smartphones or laptop/desktops.
> 
> But the other side of users already have decent sound sources and didn't want an extra modifier in the sound stage. It made perfect sense to release a version without the EQBOX. I remember some users including me did request for unamped ZN1.
> 
> ...


 

 I know right, I think with KZ's backing that they could put a real hurt on ****, Easy and HCK when it comes to custom hybrid iem's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Are you listening KZ???? Could we start with a dual BA/single dynamic model, oh pwetty pwease


----------



## EISENbricher

fallrsk said:


> @EISENbricher you're gonna love the monks! Also, let's hope your new pair of HDS3 aren't plagued with balance issues once again. I'll be waiting to hear from ya before i grab another pair.. but i'm a bit surprised there haven't been any new KZ after dropping the EDR2 and HDS3 on us like that lol!


 
 Yeap, actually I've never got an earbud since years (my last one was one of the Sony in my college years when in-ear were pretty much a new thing). I have doubts regarding isolation and fit, not like I'm expecting too much from an earbud anyway. I just hope that they offer a different sound flavor to my current candy store xD Looking forward to Monks.
  
 Yeah I was wondering the same as well. In last few months KZ did a fantastic job of keeping us busy with lot of good new releases. Actually compared to other brands they are very speedy at releasing stuff. For example see Havi... after the strong success of B3P1 the fans are waiting since ages for a new release. Same in case of VSonic.
  
 I suspect this cooldown is because of Chinese New Year though. It's pretty much a big thing in China and all the manufacturing, design, transport work ceases for few days. Maybe after this they'll start in full swing again, I hope. 
  
 Sorry for ranting too much >


----------



## EISENbricher

nolife1123 said:


> One could get the EDR2 for 4.1$ from gearbest if you use the gearbest points to discount it by 30% !


 
 What?? lol I think I missed the deal but well, at such low price no regrets  : ) 
  


podster said:


> I know right, I think with KZ's backing that they could put a real hurt on ****, Easy and HCK when it comes to custom hybrid iem's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah!
 I talked a lot with KZ rep in past regarding this but according to them the decent BA drivers that they'd have to outsource would cost too much and essentially make the BA release cost high. So a BA release is not planned yet. This communication was done like 3 months ago.


----------



## nolife1123

eisenbricher said:


> What?? lol I think I missed the deal but well, at such low price no regrets  : )


 
 You didn't miss the deal, whenever you pay stuff at gearbest you get points, which you can use to discount anything you buy (up to 30% of the total cost), which is how my brother only paid 6.99$ for his KZ ATE .
 Speaking of the ATE, it completely destroys the xiaomi piston 3's, both by comfort/fit and sound quality, even the build quality seems great! But that just might be my intolerance for bass thump, lack of mids, wonder how they'll compare to the **** UE I ordered.
  
 And prepare to be amazed by the Monks, even if you would set the expectations very high, you'd still be surprised by them, mark my words :>!


----------



## EISENbricher

nolife1123 said:


> You didn't miss the deal, whenever you pay stuff at gearbest you get points, which you can use to discount anything you buy (up to 30% of the total cost), which is how my brother only paid 6.99$ for his KZ ATE .
> Speaking of the ATE, it completely destroys the xiaomi piston 3's, both by comfort/fit and sound quality, even the build quality seems great! But that just might be my intolerance for bass thump, lack of mids, wonder how they'll compare to the **** UE I ordered.
> 
> And prepare to be amazed by the Monks, even if you would set the expectations very high, you'd still be surprised by them, mark my words :>!


 
 I'd love to hear how Senfers go agains KZ camp. They look really sweet and I considered to buy those. 
  
 BTW Monk praise from multiple head fiers here, I'm surely hyped : D


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> I'd love to hear how Senfers go agains KZ camp. They look really sweet and I considered to buy those.
> 
> BTW Monk praise from multiple head fiers here, I'm surely hyped : D


 
 Let me start this reply saying IMHO the Monk is the absolute best buy in all of audio period




  
 Now I would not even mind paying more for a KZ Custom because I think KZ would build an awesome one worth every penny they asked


----------



## vapman

Hi guys. I excitedly ordered some mmcx cable for my beloved KZ ATE.

It seems like they are not real MMCX connectors, or really tough ones if they are?

I've replaced MMCX before on wifi devices with no problem so I thought maybe it wasn't real mmcx.

On one I ended up ripping the wire out altogether, on the other one the enitre MMCX "assembly" came out, but that side of the earphones still works.

Luckily they're only $10 and i have a spare set of them as well as the ATE-S. However, now I am not really feeling great about attempting to swap the cable on my other ATE.

Is it a real but very tough MMCX or is it not actually detachable? I am thinking it might be hardwired because the full MMCX "assembly" came out of one but the wire is still going into it...


----------



## EISENbricher

ATE doesn't have MMCX connectors at all.... you'd need female MMCX bought separately if you want to install real MMCX connectors on ATE.
 I'd not advise that though. Mainly because of ATE's construction. It's plastic body without any correct method to disassemble without distorting/damaging it. 
  
 I'd totally recommend using an ear hook with ATE though. It does both jobs of securing it nicer as well as reducing wear and tear of that joint. My first pair fell to the wear and tear and that's the weakest point on ATE (non S version)


----------



## nolife1123

eisenbricher said:


> I'd love to hear how Senfers go agains KZ camp. They look really sweet and I considered to buy those.
> 
> BTW Monk praise from multiple head fiers here, I'm surely hyped : D


 
 Guess I'll find out how they compare, I would've gone for the ATE but there's no point grabbing one for both of us (my brother an I) when I could just try the **** instead :>, besides Theresa from HCkexin was kind enough to save the special new years discount for me till today, even though it passed a couple of days ago, so I got them for 22.4$ (red+blue with blue cable which I find extremely good looking).


----------



## vapman

eisenbricher said:


> ATE doesn't have MMCX connectors at all.... you'd need female MMCX bought separately if you want to install real MMCX connectors on ATE.
> I'd not advise that though. Mainly because of ATE's construction. It's plastic body without any correct method to disassemble without distorting/damaging it.
> 
> I'd totally recommend using an ear hook with ATE though. It does both jobs of securing it nicer as well as reducing wear and tear of that joint. My first pair fell to the wear and tear and that's the weakest point on ATE (non S version)


 

 hmm, both ebay and amzon listing for the normal ATE said it had a removable MMCX connector! that is disappointing...
  
 at least i am only out $10 or $15 or whatever it was  
  
 I don't think they'll take my destroyed ATE back now, haha!


----------



## Podster

vapman said:


> hmm, both ebay and amzon listing for the normal ATE said it had a removable MMCX connector! that is disappointing...
> 
> at least i am only out $10 or $15 or whatever it was
> 
> I don't think they'll take my destroyed ATE back now, haha!


 

 Heck, I'd send them back for false advertisement! Just tell them you pulled hard on the cable because their add said they were MMCX and it broke because they lied


----------



## vapman

Amazon approved my return because it was not as described. I hope the seller will change it to say it is not a MMCX detachable cable.
  
 I made it clear in the comment section of the return I broke the IEM trying to remove the cable. so if they don't approve it, i would rather be honest.
  
 I probably will try again to make the MMCX to EX1000 adapter to make use of this nice cable.


----------



## Pulpfiction

Hope you like the Monks EISEN. I think of KZ IEMs as seriously good value for money, but by the same standards find myself in trouble to describe the value for money on the Monks, it's quite insane. I definitely prefer IEM fit, but after you find the fit that makes them sound best for you, the sound more than makes up for it. At first I found them uncomfortable but you do get used to them more over time. Sorry for the OT peeps :rolleyes: !

I got a telegram saying a package arrived at the post office - too many small bits & bobs on order, but I hope it's the ZN1 Mini (or the Xduoo X2) !


----------



## EISENbricher

Was hoping to ask particularly in this thread (coz nowhere else I can find VFM conscious ppl like here). Any BA stuff for cheap? I've never had a BA and I'm dying to experience one. Doesn't matter even if it's not the best VFM. <$20 anything out there? poor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 out.
  
 Quote:


vapman said:


> Amazon approved my return because it was not as described. I hope the seller will change it to say it is not a MMCX detachable cable.
> 
> I made it clear in the comment section of the return I broke the IEM trying to remove the cable. so if they don't approve it, i would rather be honest.
> 
> I probably will try again to make the MMCX to EX1000 adapter to make use of this nice cable.


 
 Good to know that they agreed. The description was so misleading and I totally see someone pulling the joint hard after reading that. 
  
 In fact, when ATE was first launched lot people here thought that the connector was removable. Chinese sites don't help much in describing everything anyway. So it was a matter of mystery till first head fier here got those and confirmed that it wasn't removable.
  


pulpfiction said:


> Hope you like the Monks EISEN. I think of KZ IEMs as seriously good value for money, but by the same standards find myself in trouble to describe the value for money on the Monks, it's quite insane. I definitely prefer IEM fit, but after you find the fit that makes them sound best for you, the sound more than makes up for it. At first I found them uncomfortable but you do get used to them more over time. Sorry for the OT peeps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Another +1 for monks, now I have no doubt to believe in it. Thanks for your impression too. 
  
 Wow you're going to love the X2! That small thing is a beast and a VFM champ in DAPs. I love mine.


----------



## ajaxender

This one is a BA: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Original-REMAX-RM-600M-2BA-Drive-Unit-In-Ear-Earphone-Balanced-Armature-Headphone-DIY-HIFI/1825606_32576534823.html


----------



## Ruben123

ajaxender said:


> This one is a BA: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Original-REMAX-RM-600M-2BA-Drive-Unit-In-Ear-Earphone-Balanced-Armature-Headphone-DIY-HIFI/1825606_32576534823.html


 

 I didnt want to know...


----------



## j0p3Y

eisenbricher said:


> Good to know that they agreed. The description was so misleading and I totally see someone pulling the joint hard after reading that.
> 
> In fact, when ATE was first launched lot people here thought that the connector was removable. Chinese sites don't help much in describing everything anyway. So it was a matter of mystery till first head fier here got those and confirmed that it wasn't removable.
> 
> ...


+1 here too. For an Earbud Headphone they are remarkably good. For me, bass could be a little more pronounced, and treble just a little less sibilance, but overall (and for this money) it's a great set which should be added to your collection


----------



## Podster

Anyone know if these fit the Monks?
  
 http://earhoox.com/?utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=sas


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Anyone know if these fit the Monks?
> 
> http://earhoox.com/?utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=sas


 
 I bought them and they fit fine but still didn't work out for me.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I bought them and they fit fine but still didn't work out for me.


 

 Hate to hear that, I'm mostly wondering if the Hoox lock them into place pretty good. Can't stand them floating around in my ear cavity


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Hate to hear that, I'm mostly wondering if the Hoox lock them into place pretty good. Can't stand them floating around in my ear cavity


 
 Yea too bad they can't stay in place seemed like they might sound pretty good...


----------



## Pulpfiction

Check the Monk thread folks! Me and some others have found a good fit with the buds angled - so not 'plop the buds in and let them sit where they would normally / where they want to. If you check my posts in that thread, I made a more thorough description of how I made the fit work for me including a few pics - I took a few notes out of fellow headfier Ozkan's book. I can imagine the Earhooks not really working out because those wouldn't enable you to change the angle of the buds. I also found other accessories on AliExpress (silicone rubber rings & caps for earbuds) that should work theoretically. Some should be arriving here any time now, when they do I'll share my experiences in the Monk thread.


----------



## To.M

Hello all KZ fans  I've browsed this thread and decided to buy KZ ATE, I got them 2 days ago and bad luck, the left earphone is louder than the right one (with the mic)... have you had such problems?
  
 ps
 VE MONKS rule  got them too and they are brilliant


----------



## nolife1123

to.m said:


> Hello all KZ fans  I've browsed this thread and decided to buy KZ ATE, I got them 2 days ago and bad luck, the left earphone (with the mic)
> is louder than the left one... have you had such problems?
> 
> ps
> VE MONKS rules  got them too and they are brilliant



Return them, they're misbalanced!


----------



## Shawn71

to.m said:


> Hello all KZ fans  I've browsed this thread and decided to buy KZ ATE, I got them 2 days ago and bad luck, the left earphone is louder than the right one (with the mic)... have you had such problems?
> 
> ps
> VE MONKS rule  got them too and they are brilliant




Its the channel imbalance.....what happens when you press the mic button,any change? Btw you almost waited for 12 long years to post your first comment.  wishing yougood luck to make your wallet skinny in 12 months.


----------



## EISENbricher

shawn71 said:


> Its the channel imbalance.....what happens when you press the mic button,any change? Btw you almost waited for 12 long years to post your first comment.  wishing yougood luck to make your wallet skinny in 12 months.


 
 Oh wow! Just noticed that lol. 
 POWER OF KZ THREAD xD 
  
 Makes 12 year old joiner to log in n post. Well it was regarding the defective pair though lol so not absolutely glorious right?


----------



## To.M

Oh yes an uber-lurker!  I had a laugh about that too, the truth is I forgot about my account I had created here years ago and was reminded about it when I tried to create a "new one",
 earlier I just browsed the forums looking for some info 
  
 Ok, playing with the mic helps nothing, listening to music either from my phone or from my pc, there is still some 30-40% difference in loudness between the earphones which means I got a faulty pair. Well, I will contact the seller - the official KZ shop and we will see what they have to say about it
 .
 Fortunately I also got VE MONK so my anger has been eased, I am a MONKophile now!


----------



## wastan

KZ ZS2

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-KZ-ZS2-In-ear-Earphone-Dual-Dynamic-Driver-Subwoofer-Bass-HIFI-Monitor-Sports-Headphones/1825606_32608714305.html


----------



## kaiteck

wastan said:


> KZ ZS2
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-KZ-ZS2-In-ear-Earphone-Dual-Dynamic-Driver-Subwoofer-Bass-HIFI-Monitor-Sports-Headphones/1825606_32608714305.html


 
 That's sure as hell fast.... 

 Guess I was lucky enough to sold my zs1 few days ago lol.


----------



## Podster

kaiteck said:


> That's sure as hell fast....
> 
> 
> Guess I was lucky enough to sold my zs1 few days ago lol.



Long time gone on my ZS1, just got my ZN1 Mini's and here comes ZS2


----------



## AsheshM

my KZs3 about to reach.. how are the stock tips or do i need to change?


----------



## j0p3Y

podster said:


> Long time gone on my ZS1, just got my ZN1 Mini's and here comes ZS2


now the question is, will ZS2 be better than ZN1 mini?


----------



## Podster

j0p3y said:


> now the question is, will ZS2 be better than ZN1 mini?




I'm going to let all you gentlemen tell me, I'm retiring out here in KZ Land after getting my Auri Rockets the other day it is clear to me they are in another bracket I mean my ED9's and ZN1 Mini's are very good iem's for $14 and $10 respectively but neither are at the material/build quality of the Sonics. They for sure are not at them same SQ level! 

But I'll be watching and enjoying eveyone here's findings on KZ future releases


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> I'm going to let all you gentlemen tell me, I'm retiring out here in KZ Land after getting my Auri Rockets the other day it is clear to me they are in another bracket I mean my ED9's and ZN1 Mini's are very good iem's for $14 and $10 respectively but neither are at the material/build quality of the Sonics. They for sure are not at them same SQ level!
> 
> But I'll be watching and enjoying eveyone here's findings on KZ future releases


 
  
I would love to do the same, but I just enjoy my KZs too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Titan 1, FXH30, B3 Pro 1, they're all on another level yet KZ keeps drawing me back in. Could be worse I guess. They could be a heck of a lot more expensive, lol.
  
Since we're in the KZ thread and on the subject of KZ earphones, I would like to drop a little ditty on the C56R. These came in around the same time as the HDS3 and at first, I was pretty unimpressed. They sounded a little dull and lifeless, especially compared to KZs newer offerings.
  
Well, I'm pleased to say that after swapping over to some wide bore, medium JVCs tips and spending some quality time with them, they have really warmed on me. The C56R is a surprisingly mellow listen with very restrained, un-KZ-like treble. They are lacking in overall detail, but don't sound veiled or muffled. Mids are slightly recessed and not really a strength, but this again lends to their relaxed nature. Bass is a little sluggish and could use more texture. There is a focus more on mid-bass than sub-bass which I'm not a fan of. They're not suitable for metal, but with more laid back and relaxed music can be an enjoyable listen. I've really been enjoying them with hip hop; artists such as Aesop Rock, Rob Sonic, Felt, EL-P, etc. I found as well that they sound more lively straight out of my HTC One M8 vs. the Topping NX1. Amped they sounded bloated and extra sluggish, and treble seemed to roll off extra early. They just sounded lifeless. Not what I was expecting. Straight from my phone they have better extension both in highs and lows, and mids seem notably more forward.
  
Build quality is good with a mix of metal and plastic housings. Those of you whom detest KZs recent cable selections will go ape for these, The cable is standard black rubber. No stickyness, acceptable microphonics, and low memory. The straight jack is also tiny and well-relieved. I have a hard time seeing it interfere with any cellphone cases. Isolation is also not bad considering their shallow fit and fairly large vents. They are two rectangular vents on both the top and bottom of the housings. I bet these would be a cinch to pull apart if someone was interested. Strain reliefs are great at the jack and housings but the y-split is old-school G.K./KZ offering limited relief, same as is found on the Micro Ring.
  
Overall they're not a stunning earphone that will set the budget iem world on fire, especially when compared to something like the ED9 or EDR2. That said, they still have a place as an enjoyable background listening earphone, such as when you're studying, reading a book, walking around town, etc. They have a very inoffensive, relaxing signature that does nothing to overly well, but nothing terrible either. I think they're more for KZ enthusiasts who want to complete their collection. There are better KZs out there that can be found at nearly the same price, such as the EDR2 or HDS1. In fact, the ED3c sounds like it could have been a good follow up to the C56R as it offers up a very similar signature that mostly addresses the C56R's most notable flaws, with some extra umph added down low.
  
Pros: Spacious and relaxing sound, comfortable, good for the treble sensitive
Cons: Early sub-bass roll off, lack of detail/texture throughout the entire frequency range, too much mid-bass
  
So yeah. The C56R isn't great and there are better KZs out there, but they are still a decent listen despite their age. I'd say these are mostly for KZ enthusiasts who want to hear some of their older offerings.
  
- B9


----------



## willy156

Would the KZ ATE be a side grade or up grade to the VSD3S? Im looking for a v shape or balanced tone.


----------



## Dasaesthetics

hey guys, havent posted here in a while.
  
 bought these a while back and loved them
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/kz-tuner-black-mental-Acoustical-headphones-headset-HiFi-Headphones-3-5mm-standard-interface-music-earphone/32273100028.html
  
 can no longer find them on aliexpress -- how come? was there a successor ? im looking for a pair with that same, warm sound signature and closed (isolation)
 even the page is MIA.


----------



## anticute

dasaesthetics said:


> hey guys, havent posted here in a while.
> 
> bought these a while back and loved them
> 
> ...


 
 Never seen those.. Is this some old model, or is it a new release? Anyone else who has these?


----------



## mur3633

I received ED9 yesterday. Excellent headphones. Nice, balanced sound. Bass not so deep but I like it. Mid-range and trebles are great. Perfect for Rock music.


----------



## B9Scrambler

anticute said:


> Never seen those.. Is this some old model, or is it a new release? Anyone else who has these?




Those are some oldies


----------



## CoiL

anticute said:


> dasaesthetics said:
> 
> 
> > hey guys, havent posted here in a while.
> ...


 
 I had them and they were ok but needed nozzle-filter mod with foam to tame piercing highs and they were almost same sounding as Piston 2 - A-shaped soundstage and V-shaped sound signature - nothing special.


----------



## Dasaesthetics

coil said:


> I had them and they were ok but needed nozzle-filter mod with foam to tame piercing highs and they were almost same sounding as Piston 2 - A-shaped soundstage and V-shaped sound signature - nothing special.


 
 Which would you [guys] recommend now? 
 I assume this is the official kz store? http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
 looking at these in particular http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/1358152_32337313320.html
  
 ate s without microphone


----------



## CoiL

If You are going for ATE don`t take ATE-S version because some claim it to be too bassy. V1silver or V2translucent black is good.
  
 Other recommendations would be ED9, ED11, HDS1, ZN1mini and maybe some newcomers like EDR2 and HDS3.
  
 Give us Your genre and sound preference for better recommendations.


----------



## vapman

coil said:


> If You are going for ATE don`t take ATE-S version because some claim it to be too bassy. V1silver or V2translucent black is good.
> 
> Other recommendations would be ED9, ED11, HDS1, ZN1mini and maybe some newcomers like EDR2 and HDS3.
> 
> Give us Your genre and sound preference for better recommendations.




How d you tell v1 from v2? I have a silver ate and the ate-s. Used to have translucent ATE not sure which version, those are now broken but they were my favorite so I need to find where to order them from.


I got the translucent ATE from amazon but they only sell it with mic and I don't want one.

Both the ate-s and silver ate are brighter than the translucent ate was

The ate-s should not be considered worse because of bass quantity for any reason. I personally love the extra bass. It is nice bass, not muddy.


----------



## kaiteck

vapman said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > If You are going for ATE don`t take ATE-S version because some claim it to be too bassy. V1silver or V2translucent black is good.
> ...




The first kz ate was the silver. That's v1.
the second kz ate was the translucent black. Thats v2. The difference between v1 and v2 are just the shells.

And finally the next generation of kz ate is kz ate-s. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## kaiteck

And yes i agree kz ate-s isn't any worse because of its bass quantity. 

God kz zs1 is the one that's too bassy.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


----------



## crabdog

Just want to add here, for anyone considering the EDR2: With a good seal and the right tips these can sound really nice BUT the back edge of the phones is very sharp, as in not rounded / smoothed off and depending how they sit in your ear this can cause some discomfort.


----------



## 1clearhead

Hey guys!
  
 I've been burning-in my new KZ-ATN (probably the ZN1 version with unusually thick wires?) for over 20 hours now. At first listen, It had a lot of mid-bass presense, but will ocassually hit sub-bass notes when called for, while the upper mid-range and treble sounds very nice and clear!....Almost transparent at times!
  
 But, wow!....the bass presense is enormous! I assume, that's why it has such a wide and BIG soundstage.


----------



## Dasaesthetics

coil said:


> If You are going for ATE don`t take ATE-S version because some claim it to be too bassy. V1silver or V2translucent black is good.
> 
> Other recommendations would be ED9, ED11, HDS1, ZN1mini and maybe some newcomers like EDR2 and HDS3.
> 
> Give us Your genre and sound preference for better recommendations.


 
 i listen to mostly trance/vocal trance > classical > then prog metal
  
 want something warm


----------



## CoiL

vapman said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > If You are going for ATE don`t take ATE-S version because some claim it to be too bassy. V1silver or V2translucent black is good.
> ...


 

 ATE-S has different wire exits from driver housing - V1silver and V2translucent has metal and longer wire "reliefs" while S version has black wires and red short plastic exit points.


----------



## Stl2ega

Hi all kz fan, I need some help, please choose the best kz that suit my (not over the ear style).

I'm mostly listening to pop,rock genre, sometime classical and hip-hop.

I've visang r02(Brainwavz phoalpha) and Ostry kc06a, I prefer kc06a sound better. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## CoiL

I would say that stay with Ostry KC06A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not much to improve from KZ IEM SQ unless You just like different sound signature(s).


----------



## Stl2ega

coil said:


> I would say that stay with Ostry KC06A :rolleyes: Not much to improve from KZ IEM SQ unless You just like different sound signature(s).




In that case, which kz would you recommended?


----------



## Ruben123

stl2ega said:


> In that case, which kz would you recommended?


 

 Thought that KZ ed10 came near KC06A sound, and ED9 is one of the best models at the moment.


----------



## CoiL

> ...and ED9 is one of the best models at the moment.


 
 I think You might be little outdated about that... HDS1, HDS3, EDR2 and even ZN1mini should be on "same level" or even better (depending on personal sound signature preferences and music taste).


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> I think You might be little outdated about that... HDS1, HDS3, EDR2 and even ZN1mini should be on "same level" or even better (depending on personal sound signature preferences and music taste).




I'm not outdated at all, kc06a is a neutral earphone with attenuated bass. Comes quite close to ed9 with gold filters. Hds1 has too much mid bass and edr2 is too neutral to be as fun sounding as ostry. Hds3 has only delivered broken samples and well zn1 mini don't I know too much about. He doesn't want over ear which zn1 is.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> I'm not outdated at all, kc06a is a neutral earphone with attenuated bass. Comes quite close to ed9 with gold filters. Hds1 has too much mid bass and edr2 is too neutral to be as fun sounding as ostry. Hds3 has only delivered broken samples and well zn1 mini don't I know too much about. He doesn't want over ear which zn1 is.




While I haven't tried the Ostry, I agree with you on pretty much everything there. I've got a working pair of HDS3 but I find their sound to be kinda meh, not much better than the HDS2. Decent, but not as good as the others you mentioned.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I think You might be little outdated about that... HDS1, HDS3, EDR2 and even ZN1mini should be on "same level" or even better (depending on personal sound signature preferences and music taste).
> ...


 
 That`s why I told him that not much improvement to expect from KZ family over Ostry KC06A.


> Hds1 has too much mid bass...


 
 Hmmm, haven`t noticed that from user impressions


> ...and edr2 is too neutral to be as fun sounding as ostry.


 
 Thats why I put it out as something from different sound signature as Ostry.


> Hds3 has only delivered broken samples


 
 Well, yes, but still noticed only good comments about them so far with good potential and solid impressions.


> and well zn1 mini don't I know too much about. He doesn't want over ear which zn1 is.


 
 sorry, my bad, forgot for a moment that he doesn`t want over-ear style.


----------



## Stl2ega

ruben123 said:


> Thought that KZ ed10 came near KC06A sound, and ED9 is one of the best models at the moment.





ruben123 said:


> I'm not outdated at all, kc06a is a neutral earphone with attenuated bass. Comes quite close to ed9 with gold filters. Hds1 has too much mid bass and edr2 is too neutral to be as fun sounding as ostry. Hds3 has only delivered broken samples and well zn1 mini don't I know too much about. He doesn't want over ear which zn1 is.




Look like I should blind try 09


----------



## Stl2ega

coil said:


> That`s why I told him that not much improvement to expect from KZ family over Ostry KC06A.
> Hmmm, haven`t noticed that from user impressions
> Thats why I put it out as something from different sound signature as Ostry.
> Well, yes, but still noticed only good comments about them so far with good potential and solid impressions.
> sorry, my bad, forgot for a moment that he doesn`t want over-ear style.



Thanks to you too Coil, I don't know much about new model because ed 9,10 are more well known kz out there, I just want to try one and see if it can be my new giant killer  can you choose the most one you like?


----------



## anticute

stl2ega said:


> Thanks to you too Coil, I don't know much about new model because ed 9,10 are more well known kz out there, I just want to try one and see if it can be my new giant killer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'd personally recommend ED9. Partly because I personally like it a lot, especially with brass nozzles, but also because you have two sound signatures to experiment with because of the exchangeable nozzles. 
  
 Also, that black version looks gooooooood


----------



## CoiL

stl2ega said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > That`s why I told him that not much improvement to expect from KZ family over Ostry KC06A.
> ...


 
  
 Out of KZ family (the ones I have), I would say KZ ATE 2nd edition which I have heavily modded and is another story...
 By now, from stock configuration products, I would probably choose ZN1mini which should be similar to ATE (according to impressions).
 But this is only my subjective opinion with my personal gear, music taste and sound signature preferences and according to what I`ve read so far about newer KZ`s - it may not apply to You. But since You didn`t want over-ear wearing style - these are no-go for You anyway.
 You should probably jump on ED9 / ED11 / EDR2 or HDS1 (I would choose HDS1 out of these).


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Out of KZ family (the ones I have), I would say KZ ATE 2nd edition which I have heavily modded and is another story...
> By now, from stock configuration products, I would probably choose ZN1mini which should be similar to ATE (according to impressions).
> But this is only my subjective opinion with my personal gear, music taste and sound signature preferences and according to what I`ve read so far about newer KZ`s - it may not apply to You. But since You didn`t want over-ear wearing style - these are no-go for You anyway.
> You should probably jump on ED9 / ED11 / EDR2 or HDS1 (I would choose HDS1 out of these).




I will definitely back the ED9 and EDR2. I think the EDR2 is the better of theatre, but the filter options of the ED9 are nice.

CoiL Do you have the EDR2? I'd be interested in hearing what you think of them.


----------



## CoiL

Not yet... and Idk If I bother, probably going to mod VE Monks and after that buying something from higher league (Fidue A73, Oriveti Primacy, MEE audio Pinnacle P1, Trinity Techne on my wish list).
 Only reason I`m buying cheaper KZ`s is modding fun but lately I`ve jumped back to my unfinished full-size cans modding and wish to do some special speakers for my old restored receiver system too. Plenty of other projects needing attention and I think I`ve found my fav cheap IEM in "face" of WOM-mod. Maybe when I get bored sometime, will check those newer KZ`s but otherwise I see it now as waste of money and instead I recommend to buy only 1 KZ (depending on gear/music/taste and recommendations) and listen to it while saving money for higher tier IEM`s.
  
 Edit: Wanted to add that I know KZ IEM can be addictive but think about it - for example saving up on 4-5 KZ`s You could buy Fidue A65 which should be better in every aspect than KZ`s (from what I`ve read and looking at frequency graphs and technical specifications), also quality is not comparable. There are other IEM`s to save up too. KZ is fun to explore but if one is not interested in modding then my recommendation - save Your money and get something with higher SQ and PQ.


----------



## Podster

Well everyone in here knows my fondness for the ED9's however because of their weight I would not suggest them to someone who prefers non over ear feed. HDS1 or EDR2 (if that's the aluminum housing ones, not sure as I don't have them but they seem very popular right now), but for sure one of the lighter housing models for direct hang down.


----------



## CADCAM

Pod I wear my ED9 wire down with no weight issues with medium tips. Still love em.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> ...however because of their weight I would not suggest them to someone who prefers non over ear feed. HDS1 or EDR2 (if that's the aluminum housing ones, not sure as I don't have them but they seem very popular right now), but for sure one of the lighter housing models for direct hang down.


 
 +1


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Pod I wear my ED9 wire down with no weight issues with medium tips. Still love em.


 

 Could just be the angle of my ear canals plus I find I move my head around a lot and they just seem to come loose on me but if they work down for you that is great. While we are on here did that tip pack you sent me have a pair of Auvio tips in it? Trying to figure out where I stuck that dang bag
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Want to try it with my Zircon's, I was a little harsh last time I had something to say about them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems like you did throw in one set but was not sure!


----------



## kiyoshikiyomizu

So after all the news recently what should I get once again, big soundstage, good clear mid, and I dont really care much about bass here. Thank again guys..
 ( Waiting for Havi B6 is long and painful )


----------



## Ruben123

kiyoshikiyomizu said:


> So after all the news recently what should I get once again, big soundstage, good clear mid, and I dont really care much about bass here. Thank again guys..
> ( Waiting for Havi B6 is long and painful )




Looking for a cheap KZ Havi right? Not the only one here!

Right now ED9, HDS1 and probably EDR2 will suit you best.


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Could just be the angle of my ear canals plus I find I move my head around a lot and they just seem to come loose on me but if they work down for you that is great. While we are on here did that tip pack you sent me have a pair of Auvio tips in it? Trying to figure out where I stuck that dang bag
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yea I put the Puro tips in a seperate bag and marked it so you would know...howz that workin out for ya?  Kids today...


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Yea I put the Puro tips in a seperate bag and marked it so you would know...howz that workin out for ya?  Kids today...


 

 LOL, kids today is about to turn 60! Think I left that Bag'O Tips at the house but I remember a little bag in the bag with Puro on it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try them on my Zirc's and let you know


----------



## JvHs

I just ordered the KZ ATE and I'm looking to buy the KZ ZN1. I am just wondering though if the ZN1's are a nice addition to the ATE. I don't really care about the unpracticallity of the ZN1 because I will have the ATE anyways. Just looking for the best possible sound for the money. The ZN1 about 25dollars on ali. Please let me know if you have any advice.


----------



## Podster

jvhs said:


> I just ordered the KZ ATE and I'm looking to buy the KZ ZN1. I am just wondering though if the ZN1's are a nice addition to the ATE. I don't really care about the unpracticallity of the ZN1 because I will have the ATE anyways. Just looking for the best possible sound for the money. The ZN1 about 25dollars on ali. Please let me know if you have any advice.


 

 The original amped ZN1 are nice however you may not like the amp location and length of the cables. They for sure sound different than the ATE


----------



## JvHs

Thanks for your respons. I'm aware of the short cables and amp location, but I don't think I'm going to find that a big problem, because I'm planning to just use them at home, for media consumption (watching movies, YouTube and obviously listening to music). What do you think of the sound quality of the zn1. Are there other comparable earphones? Can they really compare with some earphones with way higher pricepoints?


----------



## Podster

jvhs said:


> Thanks for your respons. I'm aware of the short cables and amp location, but I don't think I'm going to find that a big problem, because I'm planning to just use them at home, for media consumption (watching movies, YouTube and obviously listening to music). What do you think of the sound quality of the zn1. Are there other comparable earphones? Can they really compare with some earphones with way higher pricepoints?


 

 I don't know what I own that I could compare these with but for $25 you get a very nice sounding set of iem's with a bonus amplifier, you can thread search these and find more impressions. I remember some did not like the amp sound at all but I rather enjoy when the amp is engaged and when you bypass they sound almost lifeless to me! Keep in mind this was just my observation and it and fiddy cent will get you a cup of coffee
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't think you will be disappointed for $25


----------



## carltonh

1st impression of the Z1 (or S4) model, at only 5 hours: Way too much treble energy, just like the standard ED4. I'm not certain I heard a difference in the Z1 vs ED4. I might have heard more present female vocals, but too early to judge. Not a winner out of the box, but all the pieces are there for being great if that treble tames down.


----------



## 1clearhead

podster said:


> The original amped ZN1 are nice however you may not like the amp location and length of the cables. They for sure sound different than the ATE


 

 Lol. The idea on the shirt clips is brilliant! No weight on the ears.


----------



## Pittas

Hello everyone.
I stepped across this thread about 1 month ago and did some reading about these headphones.
I decided to order some models.
Yesterday i received the first two of them.
EDR2 and the so famous S3 with black cable.
Out of the box, both are great performers. Especially for this price range, they definitely dont sound like 10$ headphones. 
Both outperform my xiaomi pistons 2 and 3.
I am undecided which i prefer. I think edr2 is a little bit more balanced with nice bass but S3 is more detailed and little treble oriented.
I enjoy my music with both of them (mostly progressive metal).
I tried them on a clean setup, no equalizers etc, as i said they perform marvelously out of the box.

Now i need to wait the rest i ordered.ATE, zn1 mini, eds1, EDSE, ED4.
I will keep you informed about my impressions. For now these 2 have overcome my expectations


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> I'm going to let all you gentlemen tell me, I'm retiring out here in KZ Land after getting my Auri Rockets the other day it is clear to me they are in another bracket I mean my ED9's and ZN1 Mini's are very good iem's for $14 and $10 respectively but neither are at the material/build quality of the Sonics. They for sure are not at them same SQ level!
> 
> But I'll be watching and enjoying eveyone here's findings on KZ future releases


 
 I've been out of town for two days and just came across this. I understand, I've also been longing for something high-end, want to experience that but will see, maybe in future when I could afford one. You're right, I've seen people before too drawing a clear line between SQ levels of entry level earphones and mid to high end earphones. 
  
 Good to know though that you'll be around this thread. As I expect from every member that 'graduates' from KZ thread (few have been there before you), please grab a best KZ of that time occasionally (maybe once in 3-4 months or more) and compare the sound with the better gear you own, that will really help to conclude whether they are progressing or not. 
  


pittas said:


> Hello everyone.
> I stepped across this thread about 1 month ago and did some reading about these headphones.
> I decided to order some models.
> Yesterday i received the first two of them.
> ...


 Great! Welcome to the thread and it's good to know that you found liking in KZ : ) 
  
 I've been waiting for EDR2 as well but maybe the delivery will take 2 more weeks. Let us know whether any burn-in or tip-rolling makes any difference in their sound.


----------



## CADCAM

If anyone is interested I've posted my 2 pairs of S3's on the for sale forum here. Both are fine I just prefer my ED9's.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> I've been out of town for two days and just came across this. I understand, I've also been longing for something high-end, want to experience that but will see, maybe in future when I could afford one. You're right, I've seen people before too drawing a clear line between SQ levels of entry level earphones and mid to high end earphones.
> 
> Good to know though that you'll be around this thread. As I expect from every member that 'graduates' from KZ thread (few have been there before you), please grab a best KZ of that time occasionally (maybe once in 3-4 months or more) and compare the sound with the better gear you own, that will really help to conclude whether they are progressing or not.


 

 Well like the Cad I still love my ED9's and they are what I'll usually use to compare with, for $14 they for sure hold their own. For someone on a tight budget or who just can't justify >$50 iem's the KZ line is bang for the buck and if you've not heard >$150 iem's you may not even know or care what you may be missing especially if you like what you hear with those $14 KZ ED9's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now with that said you can also go with the old adage you can and a lot of times get what you pay for, nice thing about the hobby is you can take gradual steps without blowing the bank! Even stepping up to iem's that fall in the $50 to $150 can really show you good return on investment ie: EX1's, Trinity's right up to the Atlas currently, HCK A2's are all fine examples of moving up from the KZ line. To me this is one of the best parts of this hobby, it is so subjective and there really is no right or wrong just new choices
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To all members we know the one thing we all have in common and that is the pure joy of listening to music.
  
 Jamming, Irie


----------



## B9Scrambler

ZN1 Mini arrived today. Have only put five or six songs through them, but so far so good ootb. Have to say though, after comparing to my ZS1 which has a billion hours on it, I'm still in the ZS1 camp. The ZN1 Mini sounds VERY similar in the mids, treble and mid-bass, but with the ZS1's addictive sub-bass mostly dialed out. Since these are early impressions they could, and probability will, change.
  
 Oh, I also find the ZS1 more comfortable. That memory wire actually does an amazing job of making them disappear in my ears. Kinda surprised at that...
  
 More impressions to come once I get some quality ear time in with the ZN1 Mini!


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> ZN1 Mini arrived today. Have only put five or six songs through them, but so far so good ootb. Have to say though, after comparing to my ZS1 which has a billion hours on it, I'm still in the ZS1 camp. The ZN1 Mini sounds VERY similar in the mids, treble and mid-bass, but with the ZS1's addictive sub-bass mostly dialed out. Since these are early impressions they could, and probability will, change.
> 
> Oh, I also find the ZS1 more comfortable. That memory wire actually does an amazing job of making them disappear in my ears. Kinda surprised at that...
> 
> More impressions to come once I get some quality ear time in with the ZN1 Mini!




OK B, do give the Mini's 35 hours. Mine started to sound more like ZS1's but a little more refined at least to my old ears I ended up gifting my ZS1's to a good buddy as his first iem and he's wild about them, just a little too bass centric for me. What I like most with the Mini's are their ability to be EQ'd to almost sound identical to the ZS1 I may be wrong, you may not like the sound of the Mini but do burn them in well


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster Oh no, I'm liking the Mini so far, I just miss the ZS1's sub-bass. I'm not going to judge them till I have a good number of hours on em though  I found the ZS1 really cleaned up with LOTS of play time, so I expect the same from the Mini. Not a huge proponent of "burn in" but I do feel it benefits some iems, ZS1 included.


----------



## EISENbricher

Mini sounds fantastic with wide bore tips. Yeah from ZS1 to Mini transition the bass difference would feel but keeping in mind that ZS1 is a bass monster, the lack felt is relative. If you go from ED9 to Mini or HDS1 to mini the bass would feel ample. In absolute terms the bass on mini is above average in quantity and fairly extended, though not to the sub bass levels. 
  
 Comfort wise it's YMMV I think, ZS1's memory wire actually makes it a lot painful for me which Mini with its bundled ear guide can sit comfortably for hours.


----------



## 1clearhead

I love the ATN's (ZN1) midrange and treble. Very clear.


----------



## Podster

There have been very few iem's I could wear with ear hooks, just not a fan of them. Cable over ear has always been my choice and with the grippy cable on the Minu I'm good to go, that crazy garden hose diameter on the Mini's from the y-splitter to the jack is just insane. Always reminds me of some fancy high end speakers cables


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Mini sounds fantastic with wide bore tips. Yeah from ZS1 to Mini transition the bass difference would feel but keeping in mind that ZS1 is a bass monster, the lack felt is relative. If you go from ED9 to Mini or HDS1 to mini the bass would feel ample. In absolute terms the bass on mini is above average in quantity and fairly extended, though not to the sub bass levels.
> 
> Comfort wise it's YMMV I think, ZS1's memory wire actually makes it a lot painful for me which Mini with its bundled ear guide can sit comfortably for hours.


 
  
 Ear guide? I didn't get any of those with my pair, though I just tried them with a pair I have. Definitely helps! Thanks for the idea. I did some tips rolling and ended with some super wide bore tips that came with my old JVC Ripidz. The tips I use with the ZS1 force the housing to pop out. That's where the memory wire comes in I guess. Holds the ZS1 in place. That said, the ZN1s sound great with these JVC tips! 
  
 Given the inherent similarities between the ZS1 and ZN1, it was only natural for me to instantly compare them, especially since I enjoy the ZS1 so much. I really only bought the ZN1 to see how they differed. I'll eventually get around to comparing them with other KZs, but first I need to become accustomed to their sound.


----------



## nhlean96

Can somebody compare between the HDS1 and ED9 ?
 The seller said the ED9 is much better than HDS1 in term of detail, treble. He also said the ZS1 is the best among HDS1, ED9 and ZS1 (detail, mid range, bass), which I found very opposed to some comments in here.
 I'm very confused now @@


----------



## Ruben123

nhlean96 said:


> Can somebody compare between the HDS1 and ED9 ?
> The seller said the ED9 is much better than HDS1 in term of detail, treble. He also said the ZS1 is the best among HDS1, ED9 and ZS1 (detail, mid range, bass), which I found very opposed to some comments in here.
> I'm very confused now @@


 
 @Pricewise ZS1 most expensive, then ED9, then HDS1. So of course the seller will try to sell you ZS1 or ED9 instead of HDS1.
  
 Own only the latter 2, hard time to say which is better. Like them both a lot, but HDS1 has tame treble and very good fit - ED9 better build quality and less (as in: less is more) mid bass. Id still go for HDS1 of the 2, when you dont like it... there' s many more KZs


----------



## crabdog

ruben123 said:


> @Pricewise ZS1 most expensive, then ED9, then HDS1. So of course the seller will try to sell you ZS1 or ED9 instead of HDS1.
> 
> Own only the latter 2, hard time to say which is better. Like them both a lot, but HDS1 has tame treble and very good fit - ED9 better build quality and less (as in: less is more) mid bass. Id still go for HDS1 of the 2, when you dont like it... there' s many more KZs


 
 I don't find the treble on the ED9 to be very prominent at all but the bass is certainly there if you need it. Saying that though, I do use the gold filters and the large black tips. There are multiple different sound signatures available on the ED9, you just need to experiment with different combinations.


----------



## CADCAM

nhlean96 said:


> Can somebody compare between the HDS1 and ED9 ?
> The seller said the ED9 is much better than HDS1 in term of detail, treble. He also said the ZS1 is the best among HDS1, ED9 and ZS1 (detail, mid range, bass), which I found very opposed to some comments in here.
> I'm very confused now @@


 
 I have them all and he's right the ED9 has more detail than the HDS1...the HDS1 is more balanced across the frequencies while the the ED9 has more treble energy. Some like myself like the detailed highs while others find them harsh. If you are into a more laid back sound go for the HDS1...if you enjoy detail grab the ED9. 
  
 If you end up getting the ED9 make sure the tiny paper filters are in place on the inside of the brass nozzles and I also experimented with putting small amounts of filter material in the nozzles themselves as well...sounds great and they are my favorite KZ along with the ED3 Acme youth.
  
 I couldn't get the ZS1 to sound good due to the over ear wire and fit so can't comment on them.


----------



## anticute

cadcam said:


> I have them all and he's right the *ED9 has more detail than the HDS1...the HDS1 is more balanced across the frequencies while the the ED9 has more treble energy*. Some like myself like the detailed highs while others find them harsh. If you are into a more laid back sound go for the HDS1...if you enjoy detail grab the ED9.


 
 +1, my thoughts exactly


----------



## vapman

Brightness can give the illusion of greater detail but it can be the result of a higher noise floor. I do not prefer gear with bright treble as it may sound more impressive immediately but with extended listening is definitely less detailed & revealing.
  
 I have found the silver KZ ATE is too bright for my tastes.  I will give it away to a friend.
  
 The translucent ATE is still my favorite with a much more laid back tone. It is IMO the most detailed and, most importantly, best bass when amped. It seemed to be the same overall tone but more balanced and less aggressive sounding.
  
 The ATE-S I hope will burn in to be better sounding but I am not very hopeful. It seems to have the same brightness as the silver ATE but a lot more bass. The bass is not much different than the ATE without an amp, but with an amp it is very powerful. I have mixed feelings about it though because while it is not muddy, it is a bit close to being muddy IMO. For the price it is not bad at all given how powerful the bass impact is, I still prefer the bass of the translucent ATE the most. It is more refined, has better sub bass response, and is more balanced sounding than the ATE-S.
  
 When I use my friend's KZ ED9 they are too aggressive and bright for me.
  
 I am hoping the translucent ATE I have in the mail will sound like my previous translucent ATE which I broke. If not I will be very sad as those were spectacular IEMs I preferred over the majority of my collection.


----------



## Stl2ega

coil said:


> Out of KZ family (the ones I have), I would say KZ ATE 2nd edition which I have heavily modded and is another story...
> By now, from stock configuration products, I would probably choose ZN1mini which should be similar to ATE (according to impressions).
> But this is only my subjective opinion with my personal gear, music taste and sound signature preferences and according to what I`ve read so far about newer KZ`s - it may not apply to You. But since You didn`t want over-ear wearing style - these are no-go for You anyway.
> You should probably jump on ED9 / ED11 / EDR2 or HDS1 (I would choose HDS1 out of these).




What If I didn't care about over the ear style and just want a model that beat visang r02 SQ, which one do you choose?


----------



## vapman

@CoiL
 What mods did you do the ATE? If you posted them here already, I can't find your relevant post.


----------



## Ruben123

Here comes my first writing about the EDR2.... I find it quite hard to review earphones when they sound quite the same, but not totally so. Please take this with some grains of salt! 

EDR2 vs HDS1
These two sound more the same than different. Both quite balanced, with the HDS1 having more upper bass and lower mids, while the EDR2 has -as it sounds- flat mids, with slightly elevated extensions. Both sub bass on EDR2 and upper treble are lifted a bit, but not in a bad way. The slight bass lift just makes it a bit less natural than they could have been! Having used the HDS1 for quite a while now, I remembered them as being mid bassy but I dont hear that back now when I listen for it. I dont believe in burn in at all, but it seems to have become less bassy... which is a good thing. Though it may also have sound bassy when I came from the ED9s as my daily drivers. 
For now: very impressed (but I am with all 3 KZs) and HDS1 and EDR2 sound more the same than different. Nothing an EQ cant do I think. EDR2 sounds more relaxing (not the in-your-face mids of the HDS1) and the addition of sub bass over the mid bass of the HDS1 does actually better to lots of music than it does not. Elevated lower mids and upper bass could -I think- somehow ruin some music, not that I experienced that with the HDS1, but certainly the EDR2 does that better. Voices seem to sound clearer on EDR2 and it doesnt sound as congested as HDS1. 

Which to choose? EDR2 -for now. Its sound is a little bit better, more different than better, although still quite the same (lol) and it isolates too better I think. It is also cheaper. The HDS1 though is so small I can use it for hours and hours continuously, not so sure about the EDR2.


EDR2 vs ED9 (brass)
Well this is easier: ED9 has less bass, more highs and well that is it. It is much heavier. Mids are maybe a bit better than on EDR2, ED9s bass is too better than EDR2's (not elevated)... but ED9's treble is elevated just a tad too far. Cant write too much about these 2 as they are totally different. 
EDR2: flat mids and highs, although some elevation in highs. 
ED9: Flat bass and thinner (though very natural) mids, and a bit too elevated highs. 
I wish I could combine the two...ED9's bass and mids and highs of the EDR2. Of the 2 I would get EDR2. It's cheaper and much less heavy, is not open backed and er, that is it. They sound too different to make one better than the other. 


Hopefully someone can do a better comparison for us all. Later comparisons with VE Monk, Havi B3P1 and maybe MP8320 will follow. To be clear: in a KZ Im looking for a baby Havi! Both these 3 come relatively close and I need more listening to be sure which one to keep and which one not to keep.


----------



## j0p3Y

ruben123 said:


> Here comes my first writing about the EDR2....
> To be clear: in a KZ Im looking for a baby Havi! Both these 3 come relatively close and I need more listening to be sure which one to keep and which one not to keep.


great comparisons, I like reading posts like this a lot. Comparisons like these are in most (decisive) circumstances much more useful than having a single review that is praising a product like there's nothing better. Most reviews on Head-fi are like that actually, hardly any review that reads as a dealbreaker. Most probably because every reviewer has his own SQ-preferences (and sometimes just to find some excuse for the investment done  ). 
I can't wait for further comparisons, three per post is quite OK.


----------



## Ruben123

j0p3y said:


> great comparisons, I like reading posts like this a lot. Comparisons like these are in most (decisive) circumstances much more useful than having a single review that is praising a product like there's nothing better. Most reviews on Head-fi are like that actually, hardly any review that reads as a dealbreaker. Most probably because every reviewer has his own SQ-preferences (and sometimes just to find some excuse for the investment done  ).
> 
> I can't wait for further comparisons, three per post is quite OK.



 


Problem with reviews without comparisons side by side is that the human memory is not the very best!

I thought that the HDS1 was much more bassy and the ED9 much more harsh, and such a comparison lets me see that both are not like that. Really digging these KZs, only KZ I didnt like was the ANV -too bright, but could be that I had the older version instead of the newer.


----------



## Ruben123

Forgot to mention that I got again not enough eartips with my KZ! With ED9 I only got 1 small eartip and now with EDR2 I got only 1 normal eartip. And I only use small and normal so it is quite frustrating, also when I want to give some away as presents.


----------



## Stl2ega

vapman said:


> @CoiL
> 
> What mods did you do the ATE? If you posted them here already, I can't find your relevant post.







stl2ega said:


> What If I didn't care about over the ear style and just want a model that beat visang r02 SQ, which one do you choose?




Here it is 


stl2ega said:


> Hi all kz fan, I need some help, please choose the best kz that suit my (not over the ear style).
> 
> I'm mostly listening to pop,rock genre, sometime classical and hip-hop.
> 
> ...


----------



## Podster

vapman said:


> Brightness can give the illusion of greater detail but it can be the result of a higher noise floor. I do not prefer gear with bright treble as it may sound more impressive immediately but with extended listening is definitely less detailed & revealing.
> 
> I have found the silver KZ ATE is too bright for my tastes.  I will give it away to a friend.
> 
> ...


 

 Vap, have you rolled tips and used Cad's cloth inside the filter mod on those ED9's? Makes a tremendous difference in the highs


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Vap, have you rolled tips and used Cad's cloth inside the filter mod on those ED9's? Makes a tremendous difference in the highs


 
 Yea I was gonna respond back to this also but when he said _KZ ATE is too bright for my tastes _I decided no...
 BTW what I use is a very porous air filter material, it's blue on one side and white on the other...I cut tiny pieces and kept stuffing more or less in the brass nozzles until I hit the sweet spot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. No illusions of detail.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Yea I was gonna respond back to this also but when he said _KZ ATE is too bright for my tastes _I decided no...
> BTW what I use is a very porous air filter material, it's blue on one side and white on the other...I cut tiny pieces and kept stuffing more or less in the brass nozzles until I hit the sweet spot
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's cool, for sure we all hear differently! Guess I've been daydreaming again and missed you hitting the 1K post
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats
  
 Little KZ Luv
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 My ED9 taste are blue whirlwinds on the gold, factory reds on the brass and ATE translucent


----------



## EISENbricher

Anybody owns black ED9? May I have the pics pls? Want to see how it looks in real.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Anybody owns black ED9? May I have the pics pls? Want to see how it looks in real.


 

 You know I do Bro
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They be Saxy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Here's one with less fodder in the background
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## CADCAM

Podster your killing me...if I didn't have 2 pair in chrome...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 or the 15 other pairs just sitting around...


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Podster your killing me...if I didn't have 2 pair in chrome...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL, funny thing is I've probably given 5 of the silver pair away! Still have two and now the black.


----------



## pashhtk27

Hello, long time lurker here.
Received edr2 and hds3 yesterday, my first KZ purchase. Quite impressed by the sound on both. Great deal below $6.

I thank you all for helping me make this purchase. 

Waiting for monks and ate now. Hoping to get them soon.


----------



## EISENbricher

pashhtk27 said:


> Hello, long time lurker here.
> Received edr2 and hds3 yesterday, my first KZ purchase. Quite impressed by the sound on both. Great deal below $6.
> 
> I thank you all for helping me make this purchase.
> ...


 
 Great, and welcome to this thread. Though seems like you're quite familiar to it already xD 
  
 I'm also waiting for Monks, which are still at least a week away from reaching. Heard great things about 'em. 
  
 I had received HDS3 few days ago but sadly it was a faulty pair. The replacement is on the way and shall reach within 3-4 days. I hope this time it'd be good one.
 How do you feel about those?


----------



## Ruben123

actually edr2 has quite a lot of bass when asked for! some further comparisons will folow this weekend....


----------



## Paperbox

Hey guys, i just learned about this brand and i need a new temp pair of IEMs cause my current ones broke. 

 Im a bit confused by their range, as they have so much. So what would you guys recommend? I listen to Rap (electronic/soul sounding ones; Kanye West, Chance the Rapper, Goldlink etc) and Chill Trap/Future (Flume, MuraMasa, etc)


----------



## ilikeiem

paperbox said:


> Hey guys, i just learned about this brand and i need a new temp pair of IEMs cause my current ones broke.
> 
> Im a bit confused by their range, as they have so much. So what would you guys recommend? I listen to Rap (electronic/soul sounding ones; Kanye West, Chance the Rapper, Goldlink etc) and Chill Trap/Future (Flume, MuraMasa, etc)


 
 I prefer black KZ-ATE S.  It really shines when you have high fidelity music source.


----------



## Podster

ilikeiem said:


> I prefer black KZ-ATE S.  It really shines when you have high fidelity music source.


 

 Hey ili, this is what I mean about we all hear differently. Most in this KZ thread prefer the original silver or Translucent to the S model! My take is if it sounds right for you then it must be right


----------



## louiedog

ruben123 said:


> Forgot to mention that I got again not enough eartips with my KZ! With ED9 I only got 1 small eartip and now with EDR2 I got only 1 normal eartip. And I only use small and normal so it is quite frustrating, also when I want to give some away as presents.


 
 Same issue with my ATE-S. Only one foam eartip was included. I use them for running and was going to use the silicone anyway, so it wasn't a big deal this time. Knowing it wasn't just an isolated case I feel like I should order tips along with my next KZ purchase though. Hopefully they get their packaging line worked out.


----------



## EISENbricher

Has anyone ordered ZS2 yet?


----------



## Podster

louiedog said:


> Same issue with my ATE-S. Only one foam eartip was included. I use them for running and was going to use the silicone anyway, so it wasn't a big deal this time. Knowing it wasn't just an isolated case I feel like I should order tips along with my next KZ purchase though. Hopefully they get their packaging line worked out.


 

 I think this really has to do with the seller and what they do or do not do for the buyer! Of course if your like the rest of us KZ Loons and have order 12 to 15 pair of KZ's you have a plethora of tips
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've gotten KZ's with a pair on and then maybe a set of foams but then I've gotten some with 2/3 pair of foams and 4 silicone sets!


----------



## wastan

paperbox said:


> Hey guys, i just learned about this brand and i need a new temp pair of IEMs cause my current ones broke.
> 
> 
> Im a bit confused by their range, as they have so much. So what would you guys recommend? I listen to Rap (electronic/soul sounding ones; Kanye West, Chance the Rapper, Goldlink etc) and Chill Trap/Future (Flume, MuraMasa, etc)




If you want a bass centric kz then look at the zs1. Opinion on these is mixed, but I think they they're a fun listen. There us a new zs2 but I've not heard it or seen it reviewed yet.


----------



## vapman

I'm interested to know if anyone here uses an amp with their KZ. It seems like most KZ users are using it directly from a phone.
  
 The KZ ATE is serious bass with an amp. Is the ZX bassier with an amp?
  
 It seems EQ isn't even necessary, just the extra power from an amp gives the great bass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vapman I run them with my NX1 every once in a while. Benefits a few models, like the EDR2, ZS1, and ATE but even then it's not entirely necessary. Most sound good out of whatever source imo.

I'm still astounded by the bassy ATE comments. All four of the silver release pairs that I've had in my possession have been mostly balanced with a really warm signature, rolled off at both ends. The two remaining pairs (one I keep as a spare) are exceptionally mellow. I'm thinking they must have made some changes somewhere down the line.


----------



## vapman

b9scrambler said:


> @vapman I run them with my NX1 every once in a while. Benefits a few models, like the EDR2, ZS1, and ATE but even then it's not entirely necessary. Most sound good out of whatever source imo.
> 
> I'm still astounded by the bassy ATE comments. All four of the silver release pairs that I've had in my possession have been mostly balanced with a really warm signature, rolled off at both ends. The two remaining pairs (one I keep as a spare) are exceptionally mellow. I'm thinking they must have made some changes somewhere down the line.


 

 I do not consider any of the ATE to be bassy at all unamped. however with an amp they really surprise me.
  
 I've tried all 3 versions of the ATE (and several of each those, not just 1 of each) unamped & amped and have found with an amp and some EQ the ATE really rumbles.
  
 I thought all my silver ones were a bit bright though. the translucent ones were definitely warm sounding.
  
 Wouldn't be surprised if it's just kind of a gamble as to what sound sig you get.


----------



## CADCAM

I run all my iem's from my Beresford Capella amp & Bushmaster MKII DAC...sounds fantastic IMO...


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Has anyone ordered ZS2 yet?


 

 OMG, there's a ZS2 already!
  
 Sure enough and in blue no less. Now you would have thought by now being an over ear model they would have also turned the lettering so looking at them on Z whatever read right side up
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS2-In-Ear-HIFI-Bass-Earphone-Dual-Dynamic-Driver-Headphone-Stereo-Music-Headset-Earbuds-fone/32609880104.html?spm=2114.30010208.3.248.4VVrWF&s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201644_2_505_506_503_504_301_10020_502_10001_10014_10002_10017_10005_10010_10006_10011_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_9999_10018_10019,searchweb201560_2,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6451&btsid=c0ed8f33-dc38-47fb-af27-d1f04174f00d
  
 So these have a 6mm and 6.8mm as opposed to the ZN1 Mini having a 6.8mm and an 8mm (Same drivers in the ZS1), now I really want to know if the ZS2's have less bass than the ones!
  
 Are you going to be reporting on this soon Eisen???? Looks like the smaller driver setup and blue shells are going to cost you 8 bucks more


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> OMG, there's a ZS2 already!
> 
> Sure enough and in blue no less. Now you would have thought by now being an over ear model they would have also turned the lettering so looking at them on Z whatever read right side up
> 
> ...


 
 I'm totally broke at the moment xD Two HDS3, a monk and EDR2 already coming very soon. I'll wait for someone's opinion on ZS2 first.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster According to this listing they still have 6mm and 8mm drivers.....hmmmm.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item-desc/32612080171.html


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> @Podster According to this listing they still have 6mm and 8mm drivers.....hmmmm.
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/item-desc/32612080171.html


 

 Hmm, this is what I see in your link!




  
 I here you Eisen as I have the ACME's and EDR2's coming, I dropped the EDS2 because they were just to close in design to the EDR2's and I'm swearing off KZ (No really) so don't try and talk me into the ZS2
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to mention I dropped on those cute little Superlux HD562's


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Hmm, this is what I see in your link!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow... how many earphones do you have?


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Hmm, this is what I see in your link!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Scroll down to the images. They mention 6 and 8 mm drivers, and the images do show one being notably larger. Then again, this is Aliexpress we're talking about, so who the heck really knows, haha.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Wow... how many earphones do you have?


 

 Too embarrassed to say Eisen, going to have to start culling soon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 More than you and I could wear out in the remainder of our lifetimes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Currently adding 2 more KZ (and why I said I'm swearing off KZ) plus numerous odds and ends, couple Klipsch, VJJB , HCK UE Custom, Rockets, Havi's, Phonak 022's, Plextome X41M, Sony XB40EX, BW Delta's, Trinity Delta's, Techne's, Delta V2 and Vyrus on the way and a couple pair of Monk's (I'm sure I've missed a pair or two just because I've forgotten where their stored)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Over the years I've probably given away at least this many as well, hopefully I've turned a few friends on in that process then there's the full size cans and on-ears. Hmm, seeing some kind of pattern here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm with you B9, they may be the same drivers in all four
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe someone needs to ask that particular sellers which one is it!


----------



## vapman

I want to see KZ pull a Sony and show us what they can do with some 16mm or bigger drivers.


----------



## carltonh

Discussion of the S3 and S4 seems to have completely dived off, but now I've got mine, and ready to discuss them. 
  
 So the awfully explosive nature of the S4 (aka Z1) has tamed down significantly, and now it is just a refined U signature, more than V-shaped. In fact, that U-shape and need for ~100+ hours to get it fully broken in reminded me of the famous JVC FX40, which I also have. I broke that out of storage and sure enough, they are massively similar, in all sonic ways. Now I might also add many more hours to the ED4 and see if it does the same. I still can't tell with certainty if the only differences between the S4 and ED4 are the number of hours on them. (My S4 has more, I gave up on the ED4 too early perhaps.)
  
 I have the S3 now, and out of the box it is great. Somewhat balanced with a mild extra kick in the bass.
  
 Both of these can compete (with more evaluation time) for my favorite KZ along with the HDS3, and maybe the EDR2 when it arrives. But these, IMO, are ahead of the ED4, ED8, ED10, ATE-S, and ZN1 Mini, which I also own.


----------



## j0p3Y

Question : with both the ZN1 mini and EDR2 on the way, and owning **** ue, Pistons (2, 3 and hybrid) and Joyroom, should I also go for KZ ATE Copper or LZ-Z03A,?


----------



## chavez

@Podster Report on HD562 if you get them.I maybe plan to get a pair for outdoor use  .


----------



## Debarghya Das

Hello, 
I was looking for some good cheap headphones to use them with my Fiio X1 and I found the 
kz ED9,
kz ATE, 
kz ED10, 
kz zn1mini, 
kz zs1. 
(available in my country)

Can anyone tell me which one is better to pair with X1?


----------



## pashhtk27

eisenbricher said:


> Great, and welcome to this thread. Though seems like you're quite familiar to it already xD
> 
> I'm also waiting for Monks, which are still at least a week away from reaching. Heard great things about 'em.
> 
> ...




I haven't had a lot of time on them. While edr2 sounds clearer, hds3 is more warmer and thicker. They both sound great out of the phone, but edr2 sounds even better when amped. I wanted something warmer to listen to while waking up or relaxing, and think hds3 will help me there. I mainly listen to jpop and anime music, and while edr2 is good with almost all of the tracks, hds3 sounds really good with some specific artists which have good seperation of instruments and voice. The voices are warm and pop out. And no sibilance with highs on both. I do not own many earphones so still am a newbie on sound but these two definately sound great for the money.

I also love the size of hds3, it's really small and light. Sits well in my ear. Edr2 is a bit big for my small ear.

I've never had an earbud like monk or something over the ear like ate. Don't know how they will fit. I ordered them to know.


----------



## Podster

debarghya das said:


> Hello,
> I was looking for some good cheap headphones to use them with my Fiio X1 and I found the
> kz ED9,
> kz ATE,
> ...





IMHO any of those listed would work great with the X1, riggt niw on Ali you can puck up both the ED9 and ZN1Mini for $20 and have two great sound signatures. That's just my $.02 Nothing wrong with ATE (Translucent), ED10/11 or the ZS however the ZS truly is a bassheads delight once again IMO. Good luck with whatever you choose and enjoy


----------



## EISENbricher

j0p3y said:


> Question : with both the ZN1 mini and EDR2 on the way, and owning **** ue, Pistons (2, 3 and hybrid) and Joyroom, should I also go for KZ ATE Copper or LZ-Z03A,?


 
 Won't hurt to grab 'em all if you have a bit to spend. Either way we are strictly staying in the 'Entry level' IEM zone here, so it's hard to draw a clear line to say X earphone sounds much better than rest all, in this list. Each one will offer a different experience and would shine in various areas. 
  
 Otherwise another option is to save up extra and opt for something mid range. 
  


podster said:


> IMHO any of those listed would work great with the X1, riggt niw on Ali *you can pick up both the ED9 and ZN1Mini for $20 and have two great sound signatures*. That's just my $.02 Nothing wrong with ATE (Translucent), ED10/11 or the ZS however the ZS truly is a bassheads delight once again IMO. Good luck with whatever you choose and enjoy


 
 +1


----------



## EISENbricher

pashhtk27 said:


> I haven't had a lot of time on them. While edr2 sounds clearer, hds3 is more warmer and thicker. They both sound great out of the phone, but edr2 sounds even better when amped. I wanted something warmer to listen to while waking up or relaxing, and think hds3 will help me there. I mainly listen to jpop and anime music, and while edr2 is good with almost all of the tracks, hds3 sounds really good with some specific artists which have good seperation of instruments and voice. The voices are warm and pop out. And no sibilance with highs on both. I do not own many earphones so still am a newbie on sound but these two definately sound great for the money.
> 
> I also love the size of hds3, it's really small and light. Sits well in my ear. Edr2 is a bit big for my small ear.
> 
> I've never had an earbud like monk or something over the ear like ate. Don't know how they will fit. I ordered them to know.


 
 Thanks for the tip. Yeah I noticed that HDS3 sounds beautiful and nicely warm, thick even with my defective pair. I love that kind of sound <3 Nice, I love that music too, lot of that on my playlist. Can you give a quick listen to Moonbeam - Atom and Moonbeam - Secret please and comment on which one of the two earphones represent it better? (Basically which one would be good for EDM, Trance etc). 
  
 Same here, I'm still not sure about comfort and fit of earbuds but since it's something with great sound I won't miss : )


----------



## j0p3Y

eisenbricher said:


> ...
> 
> Otherwise another option is to save up extra and opt for something mid range.



Midrange, would that be Havi-style or the latest from Music maker (TK12 HCK A2) or LZ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

For those with the EDR2, are your vents underneath the housing where the strain relief enters glued shut? Just curious.
  
@Ruben123 Enjoying your comments on the EDR2 so far. Looking forward to your bass update.


----------



## EISENbricher

j0p3y said:


> Midrange, would that be Havi-style or the latest from Music maker (TK12 HCK A2) or LZ?


 
 No experience with others. Havi is good but not everyone's taste and needs a good source + amp to shine. Plus I didn't find it durable, my Havi's cable aged horribly in an year and needs recabling.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> For those with the EDR2, are your vents underneath the housing where the strain relief enters glued shut? Just curious.
> 
> @Ruben123
> Enjoying your comments on the EDR2 so far. Looking forward to your bass update.




Yes mine do have the vents over there!


Hard thing with the bass is the comparison. Ed9 is bassy compared to havi. Hds1 is mid bassy compared to ed9. Hds1 when not compared is not bassy at all. Quite balanced to be fair. Same with edr2. Sounds slightly v-shaped (only very slightly!!) with excellent mids, but comparing to hds1 I have a hard time distinguishing. Maybe it's the method of comparing though.


----------



## j0p3Y

eisenbricher said:


> No experience with others. Havi is good but not everyone's taste and needs a good source + amp to shine. Plus I didn't find it durable, my Havi's cable aged horribly in an year and needs recabling.


amping wouldn't be much of a problem with my xduoo x3, but quality issues like that are really a deal breaker for me. I guess I just first enjoy my collection of buds, iems and headphones. Bought eight of them within less than two months, haven't made any real runtime on them


----------



## wastan

j0p3y said:


> Question : with both the ZN1 mini and EDR2 on the way, and owning **** ue, Pistons (2, 3 and hybrid) and Joyroom, should I also go for KZ ATE Copper or LZ-Z03A,?



Question: how does the xiaomi hybrid compare to the joyroom?


----------



## j0p3Y

I'm quite disappointed with the Xiaomi hybrid headphones. Of my collection of iems and headphones they sound the most dark, lacking in high frequencies very much. 
The Joyroom E107 is a much better option, in a nice package btw.


----------



## Ruben123

EDR2 vs HDS1


it is more evident for me now: I cant exactly put my finger on the EDR2. It sounds clear, though it can output (for me!) lots op bass. Im more of a neutral kind of person, though I must say Mozart's symphonies do shine with these buds. I think this is what Sennheiser IE80 must sound like, when I read those reviews. Not exactly neutral, maybe some small lifted treble and a bit more lifted sub bass.

My search, along with some other members here, is to find a KZ that sort of mimics the Havi sound - for using outside or just because we dont want to break our beloved Havi earphones. The EDR2 unfortunately is not what we are looking for, the bass is too strong although Im sure most of you would find them bass light. Compared to the HDS1, which is more mid centric, they both offer very clear vocals. EDR2 just a bit clearer because its highs are slightly lifted which, to be fair, gives that HiFi feeling to your music: you can just hear that breath of the singer a bit better, hear the "air" in the music. The HDS1 doesnt do that as well, but its sound is more neutral overall. A bit too thick mids to be exactly considered neutral, but it certainly is more neutral than the EDR2. HDS1's mids are thicker, fuller sounding and I could not say which I like better. Forget the bass and I would say the EDR2 wins, but look at the whole picture and the bass is just too much for me, again, most of you will find them bass light and the HDS1 probably anemic. HDS1's bass still is lots more than ED9's though, which is, compared to the Havi, also still too bass "heavy" for me. 

The cable sound when touching it is aweful on the EDR2 though. * Please KZ, make another KZ like the ANV but then with ED9's sound with a tad less bass, the same clear mids, and a tad less harsh highs. *

Open question to you all: * If you know another cheap IEM that does this kind of (Havi) sound, please let us know! *


----------



## CADCAM

paperbox said:


> Hey guys, i just learned about this brand and i need a new temp pair of IEMs cause my current ones broke.
> 
> Im a bit confused by their range, as they have so much. So what would you guys recommend? I listen to Rap (electronic/soul sounding ones; Kanye West, Chance the Rapper, Goldlink etc) and Chill Trap/Future (Flume, MuraMasa, etc)


 
 I say try the ED3 Acme Youth...good low end and decent detail.


----------



## kiler

cadcam said:


> I say try the ED3 Acme Youth...good low end and decent detail.


 
 Tbh I think the ATE might fit his bill as well  The good bass from them makes Trap sound lovely


----------



## CADCAM

kiler said:


> Tbh I think the ATE might fit his bill as well  The good bass from them makes Trap sound lovely


 
 I've had the ATE & ATE-S... both are just too rolled off in the highs for me and the over ear design and memory wire didn't work out for me.
 I did like the ATE and still have it but I don't listen to it much at all. The ED3, EDSE & ED9 all have more high end and good low end.
 btw listen to some old skool metal every now and them.


----------



## vapman

podster when you say bassheads will love the zs, how are the mids? Any veil, muddy mids or highs?


----------



## Podster

Overshadowed is the word I call it for the mids and highs. They are bass dominant or bass centric. I think they (mids & highs) are there as they should be but bass always takes the lead for me and with all genre. If I listened to a lot if Electronica the ZS1 would be a great inexpensive iem.


----------



## vapman

podster said:


> Overshadowed is the word I call it for the mids and highs. They are bass dominant or bass centric. I think they (mids & highs) are there as they should be but bass always takes the lead for me and with all genre. If I listened to a lot if Electronica the ZS1 would be a great inexpensive iem.




Might be interesting to try, hardly will break the bank either.


----------



## Debarghya Das

podster said:


> IMHO any of those listed would work great with the X1, riggt niw on Ali you can puck up both the ED9 and ZN1Mini for $20 and have two great sound signatures. That's just my $.02 Nothing wrong with ATE (Translucent), ED10/11 or the ZS however the ZS truly is a bassheads delight once again IMO. Good luck with whatever you choose and enjoy



Thank YOU for quick reply.
But in my country it will almost cost $25(kz zn1, ed10 and 9 each)from ebay and buying this from Ali also involves lots of problem due to custom. I never used any KZ before, but are they really worth paying $25 or should I go for other brands.


----------



## pashhtk27

eisenbricher said:


> Thanks for the tip. Yeah I noticed that HDS3 sounds beautiful and nicely warm, thick even with my defective pair. I love that kind of sound <3 Nice, I love that music too, lot of that on my playlist. Can you give a quick listen to Moonbeam - Atom and Moonbeam - Secret please and comment on which one of the two earphones represent it better? (Basically which one would be good for EDM, Trance etc).
> 
> Same here, I'm still not sure about comfort and fit of earbuds but since it's something with great sound I won't miss : )




I had a quick listen to both the songs on my tab directly. I prefer hds3 output because of more bass, rumbling kind and extra warmth. Though I like edr2 and her clear treble too.
Comes down to personal preference, I say.
I don't really listen to edm/trance though I do have a few tracks with me. Mainly because I like vocals a lot.


----------



## Podster

debarghya das said:


> Thank YOU for quick reply.
> But in my country it will almost cost $25(kz zn1, ed10 and 9 each)from ebay and buying this from Ali also involves lots of problem due to custom. I never used any KZ before, but are they really worth paying $25 or should I go for other brands.




Not really sure what other iem's you can get in your country but you may have better choices in the $25 range. IMO $25 for anything other than the original ZN1 is minimum $10 too much and many can be had between $5 and $7! I mean you could if shopped wisely get 3 or 4 KZ's for $25


----------



## B9Scrambler

vapman said:


> Might be interesting to try, hardly will break the bank either.


 
  
 I definitely recommend it. It eqs well, as does the ZN1 Mini.


----------



## vapman

debarghya das said:


> Thank YOU for quick reply.
> But in my country it will almost cost $25(kz zn1, ed10 and 9 each)from ebay and buying this from Ali also involves lots of problem due to custom. I never used any KZ before, but are they really worth paying $25 or should I go for other brands.


 

 I would have paid $25 and been happy for my translucent ATE.
 Don't know what I would recommend if you don't amp though.
 Seems like a lot of people in here like to use their KZ's straight out of phone, DAP, whatever


----------



## EISENbricher

debarghya das said:


> Thank YOU for quick reply.
> But in my country it will almost cost $25(kz zn1, ed10 and 9 each)from ebay and buying this from Ali also involves lots of problem due to custom. I never used any KZ before, but are they really worth paying $25 or should I go for other brands.


 
 In India as I assume from your username? If so then no worries at all, there are no customs issues at all, I've bought almost all KZ IEMs for <$10 on Ali and got it delivered to Mumbai with free shipping and no customs were charged ever. 
  


pashhtk27 said:


> I had a quick listen to both the songs on my tab directly. I prefer hds3 output because of more bass, rumbling kind and extra warmth. Though I like edr2 and her clear treble too.
> Comes down to personal preference, I say.
> I don't really listen to edm/trance though I do have a few tracks with me. Mainly because I like vocals a lot.


 
 I see... thanks for the opinion : ) I mainly listen to EDM/Trance and know HDS3 would be the one for me : )


----------



## zanox

eisenbricher said:


> In India as I assume from your username? If so then no worries at all, there are no customs issues at all, I've bought almost all KZ IEMs for <$10 on Ali and got it delivered to Mumbai with free shipping and no customs were charged ever.
> 
> I see... thanks for the opinion : ) I mainly listen to EDM/Trance and know HDS3 would be the one for me : )


 
 no customs were charged ever ? I also reside in Mumbai. If that's the case, then I am going to get some on Ali. which KZ would you suggest for a mids lover? I prefer a warm and lush sound with no mids recession.


----------



## EISENbricher

zanox said:


> no customs were charged ever ? I also reside in Mumbai. If that's the case, then I am going to get some on Ali. which KZ would you suggest for a mids lover? I prefer a warm and lush sound with no mids recession.


 
 Nope for earphones. Only time I was charged customs was when I bought Topping NX1. But that's all. You can see my signature for my list of earphones. All KZs were purchased from Ali. Also just as a tip, go for Singapore post option whenever available. It's the fastest one for China -> India transit while still being low cost / free.
  
 I'd suggest ATE (not the ATE S version). Mids are a bit dark but beautiful sounding. HDS1 is cool as well with balance across frequencies. HDS3 is its slightly more V shaped version IMO.


----------



## goa604

vapman said:


> Brightness can give the illusion of greater detail but it can be the result of a higher noise floor. I do not prefer gear with bright treble as it may sound more impressive immediately but with extended listening is definitely less detailed & revealing.
> 
> I have found the silver KZ ATE is too bright for my tastes.  I will give it away to a friend.
> 
> ...


 
 Very interesting. I have ATE translucent ones and i definitely hear wayy less details than with EDSE. I do however like ATE for live concerts and recordings since they are almost never
 on detail level of studio recordings but their great soundstage gives an interesting sound with live material.


----------



## mebaali

Agree with @EISENbricher on buying KZ IEMs from Aliex. I too have never been charged customs duty for any of my KZ IEMs (almost all of them came through china registered airmail). However, ordering from mp4nation using Singapore post, it was a different case. Had a bad experience with My S0 purchase a year back (paid a hefty customs duty that was twice the amount of what I had paid for the IEMs themselves). Same was the case with Penonaudio few weeks back on a purchase of Xduoo X3 for my colleague (again using Singapore post, this time the customs duty by officials was much lower and reasonable, though).
  
 In my experience, customs duty for large part is kinda russian roulette with Indian officials. Packages that are big/heavy/more conspicuous/containing Lithium battery are more than likely to attract some form of customs charge when used in combination with postal services such as Singapore post (very quick of the lot for India, among free postal services used by most chinese sellers). 
  
@Debarghya Das - Go ahead with Aliexpress for KZ IEMs purchase instead of someone like hifinage (just guessing, he was the one you were intending to purchase from) who is ripping customers off with exaggerated pricing/tax/shipping or over priced Ebay sellers.  For the starters try with a single pair of KZs and see how it goes.
  
 JFYI, My favt KZ IEM is HDS1 (more balanced sound signature and works with all kinds of genre, provides great fit for my ears as well)
  
 Cheers!


----------



## EISENbricher

goa604 said:


> Very interesting. I have ATE translucent ones and i definitely hear wayy less details than with EDSE. I do however like ATE for live concerts and recordings since they are almost never
> on detail level of studio recordings but their great soundstage gives an interesting sound with live material.


 
 Just for a tip if you are using foamies with the ATE then I'd recommend to switch to wide bore silicones. Foamies as well as narrow bore silicone dampen highs.
  


mebaali said:


> @Debarghya Das - Go ahead with Aliexpress for KZ IEMs purchase instead of someone like hifinage (just guessing, he was the one you were intending to purchase from) who is ripping customers off with exaggerated pricing/tax/shipping or over priced Ebay sellers.
> Cheers!


 
 Yup, Indian sellers are ripping off too much. I can see lot of KZ stuff on Amazon.in, Ebay.in and HiFinage but the prices are ridiculous. I won't mid paying some premium for the time I save against ordering from AliExpress but the difference is just too unfair that the wait is more than worth.


----------



## Debarghya Das

Yes, I live in India. But could you tell me what kind of card they accept for payment.
I have both VISA & Maestro Card. Last time I used the VISA card for payment but it didn't succeed.


----------



## Debarghya Das

Actually I never used Ali before. One of my old friend had to pay huge custom charge for his laptop(purchased from Ali). 

It will be very helpful, if you explain me the process of payment and delivery.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> EDR2 vs HDS1
> 
> 
> it is more evident for me now: I cant exactly put my finger on the EDR2. It sounds clear, though it can output (for me!) lots op bass. Im more of a neutral kind of person, though I must say Mozart's symphonies do shine with these buds. I think this is what Sennheiser IE80 must sound like, when I read those reviews. Not exactly neutral, maybe some small lifted treble and a bit more lifted sub bass.
> ...


 
 Great impressions @Ruben123! Was waiting hear what you thought of the EDR2 vs. other KZs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I wholeheartedly agree with many of your observations, but to a lesser extent those concerning neutrality of the EDR2 vs. HDS1. I found the EDR2 to be slightly more neutral and definitely more "HiFi" due to the extra clarity and detail, but both are off-neutral for different reasons. EDR2 due to it's mild treble lift and minor sub-bass boost, HDS1 due to it's excessive mid-bass and overly relaxed treble. Reminds me a lot of my ATE in that regard. The mid-bass on the HDS1 throws things out of balance to my ears, and that's the primary reason why I hear the EDR2 as the more neutral of the two. In the end I still think the EDR2 can replace the ED9 and HDS1 since it has many the strengths of both models (soundstage, clarity, and mids of the ED9* mixed with the smooth signature of the HDS1) with a bit of it's own character thrown in. I put it right up there with the Monk in the "bang-for-buck" category considering you can get them for as little as 6 bucks (less than what I paid for the Monk since shipping was free, versus~5 CAD to ship the Monk).
  
 I also found the EDR2 really receptive to eqing, similar to the ZN1 Mini and to a lesser extent it's bass-monster brother the ZS1. It's pretty easy to mess around with bass and treble levels (mids are fine where they are imo) to bring them more in line with the B3. Not sure if you play around with eq often, but it's worth a go. 
  
 Concerning bass on the EDR2, that was primarily why I was asking earlier if other EDR2 owners noticed that the vents near the strain relief were glued shut. I'm 99% sure the EDR2, at least my pair, are fully closed which should make a notable difference in bass presentation. 
  
 As much as I am okay with KZ's current cables, it is pretty much mandatory to wear them over-ear to nullify the noise. I would love to see them bring back the ANV's cable as it really is excellent. Doesn't tangle, is fairly thick and durable but still flexible, and transmits little noise.
*


----------



## EISENbricher

debarghya das said:


> Actually I never used Ali before. One of my old friend had to pay huge custom charge for his laptop(purchased from Ali).
> 
> It will be very helpful, if you explain me the process of payment and delivery.


 
 Take my word and don't even worry about customs for things costing <$20 at all. They won't charge for it. I can blindly tell that hefty customs would be charged for things such as laptop. 
  
 I use Mastercard credit card (VISA/MAESTRO credit card would work fine as well). They have bunch of other options as well, just register on AliExpress, go to the order page and then post your doubts. I'd be more helpful if you come across some specific issue than to vaguely explain entire process. 
  
 On the product page itself you get to choose delivery mode and they also provide shipping cost there (if applicable). Sometimes you'd see 'Aliexpress Standard Shipping' but it's just a encompassing name for multiple low cost shipping services. 
  
 In all modes you'd get Tracking number which you can track using 17track.net


----------



## Rumblefish

Hallo Everybody!
  
 I'm after buying 4 pairs of KZ due to reading this thread, so I thought I'd sign in and thank/blame you all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (No blame for earphones, for lowering my bank balance).
 I have also bought the Xduoo X2 and I am looking at the X3 or the Fiio X1. But that's a different topic for a different thread.
 I also started looking at amps, and that beautiful looking one in Photos by Podster (I Followed it to kickstarter).
  
 In the end I bought the KZ ED9, KZ ATE, KZ ED4 and the KZ ED10.... I could have kept going! I had 9 pairs in my basket as I read through the thread, it rose up to 12, then to 15. I had to cull. I wasn't even sure which to cull.
 But they are the final 4 I went with.
  
 I was originally buying KZ HDS2, also from Aliexpress, but from a different seller. I had read a review here - http://mysku.ru/blog/aliexpress/37282.html recommending them, and was using that store.
 I had never heard of Knowledge Zenith before then, and unfortunately the HDS2 were one of the pairs I removed from my basket. No doubt I'll pick them up again.
  
 There are so many types. I was like a kid for the first time in a sweet factory.
  
 I have a question also.
 When purchasing a pair, you have the choice of with or without a microphone. I never listen to music on my phone, but would an added microphone make any difference to the overall sound or performance of the earphones?
  
 One last question. How do any of you have any money in you bank accounts? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Self restraint? Angry Partners controlling your finances?
  
 I've a feeling I'd be broke fairly quickly from this forum


----------



## 1clearhead

carltonh said:


> Discussion of the S3 and *S4* seems to have completely dived off, but now I've got mine, and ready to discuss them.
> 
> So the awfully explosive nature of the S4 (aka Z1) *has tamed down significantly, and now it is just a refined U signature*, more than V-shaped. In fact, that U-shape and need for ~100+ hours to get it fully broken in reminded me of the famous JVC FX40, which I also have. I broke that out of storage and sure enough, they are massively similar, in all sonic ways. Now I might also add many more hours to the ED4 and see if it does the same. I still can't tell with certainty if the only differences between the S4 and ED4 are the number of hours on them. (My S4 has more, I gave up on the ED4 too early perhaps.)
> 
> ...


 
 +1....Than you're hearing what I'm hearing!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


j0p3y said:


> I'm quite disappointed with the Xiaomi hybrid headphones. Of my collection of iems and headphones they sound the most dark, lacking in high frequencies very much.
> *The Joyroom E107 is a much better option, in a nice package* btw.


 
  
 +1 I agree, Joyroom E107's are no joke! Plus, It definitely took me a long time to get a decent sound out of the Xiaomi hybrids.....it was all about about "tip-rolling".
  


ruben123 said:


> EDR2 vs HDS1
> 
> 
> it is more evident for me now: I cant exactly put my finger on the EDR2. It sounds clear, though it can output (for me!) lots op bass. Im more of a neutral kind of person, though I must say Mozart's symphonies do shine with these buds. I think this is what Sennheiser IE80 must sound like, when I read those reviews. Not exactly neutral, maybe some small lifted treble and a bit more lifted sub bass.
> ...


 
  
 Try the *Sendiy M2*. Same concept as the ED9's with two tunable nozzles, but really takes you to another level. I own both.


----------



## vapman

goa604 said:


> Very interesting. I have ATE translucent ones and i definitely hear wayy less details than with EDSE. I do however like ATE for live concerts and recordings since they are almost never
> 
> on detail level of studio recordings but their great soundstage gives an interesting sound with live material.




Perhaps a lack in build consistency is to blame. My first translucent ATE I thought had excellent soundstage whereas the other one I just bought has just ok soundstage.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Great impressions @Ruben123! Was waiting hear what you thought of the EDR2 vs. other KZs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*

 


I tried to close the holes off but it didnt make the EDR2s sound less "bassy". Guess mine are closed then 

I too agree completely with you! It's all relative. For some the ER2 will sure be bass light, for others it might me too much. Too much doesnt mean I dont enjoy them though! I even think these EDR2s might be the best all of a kind KZ has delivered. The bass will enjoy pop listeners (right now listening to Michael Jackson), the treble and mids will please classical music listeners and the slightly thickened bass but overall somewhat balanced sound does good right to country/acoustical music too.*


----------



## Kice

A colleague of mine and I both bought KZ ATE earphones with microphone. The sound is terrific, but we both have problems with the microphone. The microphone rarely works ok in most situations it is just giving buzzing sounds. I have tried it both on a Windows 10 PC and Android smartphone, but it is the same? Do you know how can it be fixed, or is it just the quality of the microphone is bad and there is nothing that can be done about it?


----------



## AhmedouviX

So i just found this thread by luck and i can see too many people like KZ products so i am willing to try this brand. have a 10$ budget and already have rock zircon, still didn't try it. what do you recommend from KZ that completes the zircon? i am using public transition a lot so i need good noise isolation and good bass


----------



## kaiteck

ahmedouvix said:


> So i just found this thread by luck and i can see too many people like KZ products so i am willing to try this brand. have a 10$ budget and already have rock zircon, still didn't try it. what do you recommend from KZ that completes the zircon? i am using public transition a lot so i need good noise isolation and good bass


 
 kz ate-s


----------



## CADCAM

ahmedouvix said:


> So i just found this thread by luck and i can see too many people like KZ products so i am willing to try this brand. have a 10$ budget and already have rock zircon, still didn't try it. what do you recommend from KZ that completes the zircon? i am using public transition a lot so i need good noise isolation and good bass


 
 ED3 Acme youth and grab some Auvio's for your Zircons...thank me later


----------



## AhmedouviX

cadcam said:


> ED3 Acme youth and grab some Auvio's for your Zircons...thank me later


 
  
 thanks for the ed3 youth recommendation. i was going to order ed10 but cancelled it because i think it's close to zircon.
  
 saw many recommended auvio tips for zircons. any idea if the individual tips are the same tips come with their earphones? sorry if stupid question


----------



## CADCAM

ahmedouvix said:


> thanks for the ed3 youth recommendation. i was going to order ed10 but cancelled it because i think it's close to zircon.
> 
> saw many recommended auvio tips for zircons. any idea if the individual tips are the same tips come with their earphones? sorry if stupid question


 
 I'm not sure about the stock tips... I can tell you I have the Zircon's and they never sounded better than with the Auvio tips. I actually wasn't a big fan of the Zircon due to the exaggerated bass but the sound with the Auvio's is fantastic IMO. They still have that deep bass but it sounds so much better and balanced now.
 I also had the ED10 but never really warmed up to it and sold it off... the ED3 Acme is a blast though with great low end and a sparkle of detail.
 BTW I ordered the Auvio's from Amazon and feebay. I would say they run to size so if you take medium order medium and I would try the Auvio tips on the Zircons before ordering any other cheap iem. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Pulpfiction

Hey all,
 
I got my ZN1 Mini in just over a week ago, have had it burning in for around 20 - 25 hrs and have been listening through it for just a few hours (spread over a number of times). Does it change with more hours on it? So far, I had higher hopes for it  ! As it stands I wouldn't really recommend it over the ATE (translucent).  For me, fit of the ATE is actually better than the ZN1 Mini (and so, of the ZN1 and ZS1 too I suppose). The business end of the fit is all good (nozzle, and tip) on both, but the body is longer: still fits but barely. Also an issue with the cable - the cable exits the bud straight up & ends up about in the middle of my ear. As a result I barely manage to loop it over my left ear, and on the right side it keeps coming off (this is without moving my head or walking).
 
Good soundstage, not enough (for my taste / hope, and coming from ATE) subbass extension - not using an amp though. Bass is a bit more punchy than my ATE, it's faster which is welcome. I think it may still be a little rolled off on high frequencies, but less so than ATE. On the ATE I'm very aware of it and it bothers me, on the ZN1 Mini it's less apparent and doesn't bother me when listening casually. Apart from the subbass thing, it does well with electronic music from my laptop and phone, on the Xduoo X2 (which is a warm source) I found myself gravitating to 'Soft' EQ at first which dials the bass down a fair bit. This opened up / gave room to mids and highs to my ear, I found it to sound a bit muddy congested. I'm mostly listening to electronic stuff through it but more and more often find myself turning eq off or using 'jazz'. Don't know if I'm just getting used to the sound of the iem, or mids and highs are gaining ground in relation to the lows (burn-in or mental burn-in??). It seems to take EQ really well, almost becomes a different IEM with different settings. Haven't been listening to bands & acoustic stuff with it as I reach for the Monks 9 out of 10 times for that. I think may generally prefer the air that open style buds (and headphones? bring.
 
Does anyone here own the Joyroom E107 as well as some KZ's? I'm curious about comparisons, for instance with the EDR2 & HSD1... Have the EDR2 on the way, but am hearing lots of good stuff about that Joyroom.


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for impressions Pulpfiction! Reading Your comparison against ATE(v2) then I think I`m going to skip ZN1mini too (though, it is very good material for modding and could possibly overcome my modded ATE(v2). Only "leftovers" in my to-buy KZ list are now HDS1 and EDR2.
  
 About other IEM`s... I`ve been also reading lot of good feedback on Joyroom and they are also in my potential to-buy list.
 Another one I recommend to try is Yinjw "IE800" wooden version which in modded configuration is my fav IEM atm and even slightly better than modded ATE(v2).
  
 Would appreciate when You share some feedback about EDR2 vs. ATE too when You receive them.


----------



## 1clearhead

pulpfiction said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I got my ZN1 Mini in just over a week ago, have had it burning in for around 20 - 25 hrs and have been listening through it for just a few hours (spread over a number of times). Does it change with more hours on it? So far, I had higher hopes for it  ! As it stands I wouldn't really recommend it over the ATE (translucent).  For me, fit of the ATE is actually better than the ZN1 Mini (and so, of the ZN1 and ZS1 too I suppose). The business end of the fit is all good (nozzle, and tip) on both, but the body is longer: still fits but barely. Also an issue with the cable - the cable exits the bud straight up & ends up about in the middle of my ear. As a result I barely manage to loop it over my left ear, and on the right side it keeps coming off (this is without moving my head or walking).
> 
> ...


 

 Yes! The *Joyroom E107* are definitely one to add to your list!


----------



## vegetaleb

How good are the ZS2? Less bassy than ZS1?


----------



## tusharthegamer

I am looking for a gr07 signature type earphone in knowledge zenith? Is there anything close to gr07 in kz series?


----------



## B9Scrambler

tusharthegamer said:


> I am looking for a gr07 signature type earphone in knowledge zenith? Is there anything close to gr07 in kz series?




My ATE is very similar to the AN16, which uses the same driver as the GR07, but in the GR06 housing. Just a thought.


----------



## DynamikeB

Just received my HDS1 (red) and out of the box, I am impressed by this small thing.   For the price (around 10usd), it's impressive what they can do.


----------



## EISENbricher

dynamikeb said:


> Just received my HDS1 (red) and out of the box, I am impressed by this small thing.   For the price (around 10usd), it's impressive what they can do.


 
 Which is your fav KZ among the ones you own? And what part of HDS1 did impress you?


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Which is your fav KZ among the ones you own? And what part of HDS1 did impress you?




I'll second these questions!


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I'll second these questions!


 

 OK, I'm in for the trifecta on those questions


----------



## DynamikeB

Ok!  Lots of pressure from 3 headphoneus supremus! 
  
 Precision:  HDS1 is the only KZ I own at the moment.  A local contact bought my KZ ED10, EDSE, ATE and ED8.  I like to refresh my inventory and keep my favorite ones.
  
 In a rough order, I would class the KZ I have/had:
  
 HDS1
 ATE
 EDSE
 DT3
 ED3
 ED10
 ED8
  
 What I like about the HDS1 so far?  I am realistic and it can be an early love that won't last, and some burn in (for those who believe, either it is brain or else) and tip rolling (as I like to do for a period of time) is required with some time to size and appreciate (or not) and evaluate the iem.
  
 Here is what I like so far:
  
 - Very good fairly balanced sound out of the box.
 - Small and easy to use / insert.  Isolation is very good.
 - Classic KZ cable but not on sticky side.  Feels quality for the price,
 -  Housing is on the small side and probably could be used to sleep.  Reminds me of the Zero Audio Tenore.  Smaller.
 - Ridiculous price for what you get.  
 - I chose the non mic/volume one, and prefer this.  KZ DT3 remote just broke in part with no evident reason (I am careful with these).
  
 Sound is tricky to love, especially long term.  As I mentioned, out of the box, it's impressive for 10 USD:
  
 - Bass has a nice impact but is not the dominant frequency, I would say.
 - Mids are nice and vocals are really but really clear.
 - Treble has nice detail but is way less agressive than previous KZ I had.
  
 That is so far.  I don't have high end stuff as reference.  For now, my top 2 iems are Ostry KC06A and RockJaw Alfa Genus V2.  I like my bass present, but not overwhelming, mids clear that renders clear guitars with nice attack and clean vocals, and highs that are detailed but not harshed.  I dismissed my Vsonic VSD3 and VSD1S for this reason:  harsh highs that were kind of out of control.
  
 For now, I use the HDS1 with the stock medium tips.  It's fine for now.  I will tip roll shortly to test the change in sound and will fix on the best choice (for me) when I find it.
  
 Note:  They are not that easy to drive.  Require a notch much power that I would have thought, but it's not really a problem.
  
 Gear I use most of the time?  Ipod Classic 160gb (all my stuff is there, put it on random to test all the time) and my late addition:  Fiio Q1 that I like a lot.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@DynamikeB Great impressions. Thank you for satisfying our curiosity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*"**Note:  They are not that easy to drive.  Require a notch much power that I would have thought, but it's not really a problem." *- I find this is often a staple microdriver quality. There are exceptions of course, but generally I find they require a bit more juice than your average iem to get up to speed.


----------



## DynamikeB

If I remember right, it was also the case with the Zero Audio Tenore...  I liked these.  Not sure why I got rid of them.  Money?  yeah...


----------



## Podster

dynamikeb said:


> If I remember right, it was also the case with the Zer
> 
> o Audio Tenore...  I liked these.  Not sure why I got rid of them.  Money?  yeah...




Great assessments Dynamike


----------



## 1clearhead

tusharthegamer said:


> I am looking for a gr07 signature type earphone in knowledge zenith? Is there anything close to gr07 in kz series?


 
  
 You can try the KZ-S3, ED11, or ED9's.
  
 .....with a little bit of "tip-rolling" you can accomplish a great deal of similarities, when compared to the GR07's.


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> You can try the KZ-S3, ED11, or ED9's.
> 
> .....with a little bit of "tip-rolling" you can accomplish a great deal of similarities, when compared to the GR07's.




As Buzz Lightyear would say "Affirmative"!


----------



## EISENbricher

dynamikeb said:


> Ok!  Lots of pressure from 3 headphoneus supremus!
> 
> Precision:  HDS1 is the only KZ I own at the moment.  A local contact bought my KZ ED10, EDSE, ATE and ED8.  I like to refresh my inventory and keep my favorite ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for the writeup, I find it very similar to my findings.


----------



## andione1983

Anything new in the KZ camp lately 

Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk


----------



## EISENbricher

I received my replacement pair of HDS3 today : )  Fortunately this time it's not unbalanced like previous time.
 Will post my opinion a bit later. 
  
 Quote:


andione1983 said:


> Anything new in the KZ camp lately
> 
> Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk


 
 ZN1 mini, ZS1, ZS2, HDS3, EDR2 are new releases. There are some more like S3, S4. ED3 Youth, ED3 Acme, ED4 but I don't have much info on these. 
  
*ZN1 mini* is warm sounding dual dynamic behind the ear earphone offering fairly big soundstage. It has probably the best build quality of any plastic KZ. The cable also seems to be the strongest from KZ stable. Cable length is a bit shorter though. Also mic option is not available. 
  
*ZS1 *looks almost like ZN1 mini, but has usual KZ cable, has memory wire and is much more bass oriented than ZN1. 
  
*HDS3* is KZ's small, metal bodied, micro driver earphone. Its sound is reminiscent of HDS1 but a bit more V-shaped. The cable on this is much different than usual KZ cables. Less tangle prone but at the same time feels a bit fragile above Y split.
  
*EDR2* and *ZS2* I don't own. I'll be receiving EDR2 very soon though. As per opinions around it's supposed to sound fairly balanced.


----------



## DynamikeB

In fact, looking into my notes, i need to revise my KZ order a bit:
  
 HDS1 (very fun mid-centric small iem, early stages of discovery)
 ED10 (sound was really good and shape reminded me of KC06A, but fit was a big issue for me and this + the sound resulted in quick fatigue)
 ATE (clean sound and good sense of space, but fit and sticky/bothering cable killed it in the end)
 DT3 (deep and more than present base + lush and detailed highs = great V-shape, but even though the cable was cool -non standard KZ- the remote broke just by looking at it, good fit, but even though I like my bass present, I am not a basshead)
 ED ES (and not ED3 as i wrote before) (very nice clear sound that I liked a lot, but I sold these to a close friend, passing along the good KZ word... )
 ED SE (indeed, quite interesting with a lot of qualities, but too harsh in the highs for me, in the end)
 ED8 (soundwise, these were also very interesting, but the fit and heavy weight of the housings totally killed it)


----------



## EISENbricher

dynamikeb said:


> In fact, looking into my notes, i need to revise my KZ order a bit:
> 
> HDS1 (very fun mid-centric small iem, early stages of discovery)
> ED10 (sound was really good and shape reminded me of KC06A, but fit was a big issue for me and this + the sound resulted in quick fatigue)
> ...


 
 I have to admit, ED10 was the KZ IEM that showed what 'eargasm' is. For me its was (and still is) one of the most comfortable IEMs ever. Might be due to ear shape but yeah. 
  
 Anyone who loves V shape should totally get it. The sound is most aggressive of all KZ. Fast, punchy midbass, rumbling sub-bass and airy treble : D  Of course it all comes at a price of somewhat veiled mids but as a fan of genres which go well with this signature I'm more than pleased. 
  
 This is not for everyone though, this is purely a fun sounding earphone which colors sound. 
  
 ED11 is same driver as well. I have both and they sound almost same.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> I have to admit, ED10 was the KZ IEM that showed what 'eargasm' is. For me its was (and still is) one of the most comfortable IEMs ever. Might be due to ear shape but yeah.
> 
> Anyone who loves V shape should totally get it. The sound is most aggressive of all KZ. Fast, punchy midbass, rumbling sub-bass and airy treble : D  Of course it all comes at a price of somewhat veiled mids but as a fan of genres which go well with this signature I'm more than pleased.
> 
> ...




I agree that the ED10 is excellent. Still one of my favorites from KZ.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I agree that the ED10 is excellent. Still one of my favorites from KZ.


 

 I liked Eisen's fit comment because as much as I like the sound of both the ED10 & 11 they have always gotten uncomfortable in my ears in a short amount of time
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Though I don't hardly ever put them in anymore I had to keep one of my ED11's!


----------



## j0p3Y

eisenbricher said:


> *ZN1 mini* is warm sounding dual dynamic behind the ear earphone offering fairly big soundstage. It has probably the best build quality of any plastic KZ. The cable also seems to be the strongest from KZ stable. Cable length is a bit shorter though. Also mic option is not available.


the ZN1 mini came in today... ootb the sound a bit muffled, I'd rather heard a bit more treble in it. Have to get used to them I guess


----------



## Podster

j0p3y said:


> the ZN1 mini came in today... ootb the sound a bit muffled, I'd rather heard a bit more treble in it. Have to get used to them I guess


 

 Roll some of that Beautiful Tip footage
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After you find a tip you like try a little EQ unless you are dead set against EQ
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I found after 30/35 hours and using bass reduction they sounded pretty good
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 YMMV


----------



## EISENbricher

j0p3y said:


> the ZN1 mini came in today... ootb the sound a bit muffled, I'd rather heard a bit more treble in it. Have to get used to them I guess



Like Pod said wide bore tip + some burn in (physical/brain idk) really helps. 

If you are coming from airy/sparkly earphones like ED9, HDS1 then ZN1mini would sound softer because of relatively rolled back highs. It makes up in other departments though. 

Give it fair bit of time and let us know what do you think. It has distinctive encompassing large hall kind of sound to it, maybe because of DD setup. It responds nicely to EQing as well.


----------



## j0p3Y

eisenbricher said:


> Like Pod said wide bore tip + some burn in (physical/brain idk) really helps.
> 
> If you are coming from airy/sparkly earphones like ED9, HDS1 then ZN1mini would sound softer because of relatively rolled back highs. It makes up in other departments though.
> 
> Give it fair bit of time and let us know what do you think.


any tips for me how to burn in several sets at once? (did some buying lately) Splitter available? With what source can it be done best (pink noise or something like that?)... I guess there surely must be a good tutorial available on head-fi


----------



## Podster

j0p3y said:


> any tips for me how to burn in several sets at once? (did some buying lately) Splitter available? With what source can it be done best (pink noise or something like that?)... I guess there surely must be a good tutorial available on head-fi


 

 Somewhere someone like Vince, Nik or maybe it was Twin posted a pinwheel type splitter for like 6 pair at a time. Seems it was off AliExpress but don't quote me. Hopefully someone will chime in her


----------



## EISENbricher

j0p3y said:


> any tips for me how to burn in several sets at once? (did some buying lately) Splitter available? With what source can it be done best (pink noise or something like that?)... I guess there surely must be a good tutorial available on head-fi



Any earphone amp outputting to headphone splitter like this would work : http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BE69DSE/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1456951322&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=headphone+splitter&dpPl=1&dpID=41b3K%2BTyCYL&ref=plSrch

Be cautious though... Good burn in would be performed at volume level between mid to high. These splitters connect all earphones in parallel so it's natural that lower impedance earphones would draw in more power while producing louder volume levels. You should monitor the most sensitive earphone and set volume at its max comfortable level. 

About burn in sound there are lot pf differing opinion but my bet is just playing your playlist in shuffle mode. Pink noise is okay as well.


----------



## B9Scrambler

j0p3y said:


> the ZN1 mini came in today... ootb the sound a bit muffled, I'd rather heard a bit more treble in it. Have to get used to them I guess




I'm pretty underwhelmed with their stock sound, but with some wide bore tips and eq they are pretty good. Still prefer the ZS1 overall since they eq almost as well and output ridiculous sub-bass (which is not for everyone of course) that the ZN1 can only dream of, but eq'd the ZN1 Mini is solid.


----------



## j0p3Y

b9scrambler said:


> I'm pretty underwhelmed with their stock sound, but with some wide bore tips and eq they are pretty good. Still prefer the ZS1 overall since they eq almost as well and output ridiculous sub-bass (which is not for everyone of course) that the ZN1 can only dream of, but eq'd the ZN1 Mini is solid.


the xDuoo X3 doesn't EQ (yet) so I have to make do without 
...
PS, which wide bore tips do you advise?


----------



## B9Scrambler

j0p3y said:


> the xDuoo X3 doesn't EQ (yet) so I have to make do without
> ...
> PS, which wide bore tips do you advise?




That's a bummer. Kinda mandatory for the ZN1 imo.

I primarily use one of two JVC tips. Either the pair from my old Riptidz which are made of a really flimsy, soft rubber, with a massive bore. That or the tips from my JVC FXT90. The Riptidz tip are better as they open up the treble further and insert a bit deeper. They're longer than other JVC tips.

I also occasionally use the oddly shaped tips from my old Skullcandy Smokin' Buds. They make the ZN1 less bassy since the seal is very light.


----------



## Pittas

I ve ordered some of kz models in the past month.
I already wrote my impressions on s3 and edr2.
Others arrived as well, like hds1/hds3/zn1 mini and ATE.
Hds1 and hds3 sound much alike, both are super small and isolating really good outside noise.Ideal for sleeping, they are so small you cant feel them in your ear even when the ear is rest on the pillow. How they sound is answered thoroughly by more experienced listeners, even though i tend to like slightly better the HDS1 over HDS3; matter of personal taste i suppose.
The ZN1 mini was a big expectation item for me, and i can say they are really better than expected. I can fit them relatively easy in my ears, they offer great isolation from outside noises and they sound awesome. Very loud output with so much bass, some could say EQ could be used to cut some bass, personally i like it the way it is, i simply lower the volume 2/3 clicks in my DAP. Overall i think these will grow to be one of my favourites.

For ATE i will write my impression in the next days.
I feel so lucky i found out about KZ from this thread, until now not one of them was mediocre. Ofc i stopped using my old xiaomi pistons 2 and 3. All the KZ i got so far sound better than those 2


----------



## EISENbricher

pittas said:


> I ve ordered some of kz models in the past month.
> I already wrote my impressions on s3 and edr2.
> Others arrived as well, like hds1/hds3/zn1 mini and ATE.
> Hds1 and hds3 sound much alike, both are super small and isolating really good outside noise.Ideal for sleeping, they are so small you cant feel them in your ear even when the ear is rest on the pillow. How they sound is answered thoroughly by more experienced listeners, even though i tend to like slightly better the HDS1 over HDS3; matter of personal taste i suppose.
> ...


 
 Fantastic. I also have HDS1, HDS3 and ZN1 Mini. 
  
 Just confirming my findings, do HDS3 sound a bit V-shaped compared to HDS1? 
  
 Yup ZN1mini responds well to EQ. Btw it'd be nice to hear a comparison between ZN1 mini and ATE from you in future whenever you feel.


----------



## Pittas

Yes hds1 are more balanced than hds3.
I will write my comparative impressions between zn1 mini and ATE in the next days


----------



## Pulpfiction

It's been a while since I've used my ATE's (black translucent) and the one I still have (other one went to my father-in-law) is tucked away in its box. Really enjoyed it, lovely mids, full and decently extended subbass (that doesn't seem to impair the mids one bit) as well as great soundstage I would say are it's strong suits - worked nicely for my electronic fixes of psychill/break/dub. Fit & cable solution was excellent for me.

Weak points of the ATE for me: rolled off treble. So much so that I stayed aware of it even during casual listening. Slow / woolly bass response: those looking for fast punchy bass - look on. The subbass response also felt a bit slow, but in that freq. range I don't find it as much of a prob.

The ZN1 Mini does really seem to need burning in. My first impression was: Bloated in the lower freqs, hollow in the mids (and maybe highs, can't recall). I was seriously disappointed.

I use it / choose it over ATE now: highs are definitely *less* rolled off. Though they still seem to be to my ear, it doesn't bother me. Overall more balanced, doesn't have the mids dominate the sound signature. Subbass definitely doesn't extend as far down and is neither as present as it is in ATE, but midbass is a bit more present than in ATE and decently punchy. I find the bass quality (texture? and punchyness) much better than that on the ATE's, it's much more defined and not muddy. Soundstage I'd say is very similar to the ATE, very good. I think sometimes the soundstage on ZN1 Mini seems better to me because it sounds a bit more defined / precise in highs and lows than ATE, less smooth. Unfortunately the fit for me doesn't work as well as the ATE for me, especially how/where the cable exits the bud and the looping over the ear.

Though I'm on the fence on the whole burn-in thing it really did make a big difference for me (& I didn't like them at first and didn't expect to start liking them). So yeah, do give it some time to burn in, and EQ if you feel the need.. It does take directions very well as others said.

Can't wait to get the EDR2's - I hope they can be the buds to keep me from ordering more KZ's  .


----------



## Podster

pulpfiction said:


> It's been a while since I've used my ATE's (black translucent) and the one I still have (other one went to my father-in-law) is tucked away in its box. Really enjoyed it, lovely mids, full and decently extended subbass (that doesn't seem to impair the mids one bit) as well as great soundstage I would say are it's strong suits - worked nicely for my electronic fixes of psychill/break/dub. Fit & cable solution was excellent for me.
> 
> Weak points of the ATE for me: rolled off treble. So much so that I stayed aware of it even during casual listening. Slow / woolly bass response: those looking for fast punchy bass - look on. The subbass response also felt a bit slow, but in that freq. range I don't find it as much of a prob.
> 
> ...


 

 I see you are not really convinced on burn in and it is hard to really get but when it happens you'll be like wow! As I've already stated like Eisen the ZN1 Mini with the right tips, 30/35 hours of 3/4 VU burn in and bass reduction EQ and the Mini's can stand up against any of the other 11 pairs of KZ I own but of course YMMV like anyone else
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My EDR2's have not gotten to me yet, last pair of KZ's I'm ordering. Just have way too many iem's as it is


----------



## crabdog

I'm using the edr2 as my daily driver at the moment. I won't go into detail about the sound as I'm very new to all this and have only a small stock of cheap iems to compare with. I like them a lot but in order to get a good fit I need to wear them cable up and practically bury them inside my head. I wonder if the large kz tips are smaller than other brand large.


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> I'm using the edr2 as my daily driver at the moment. I won't go into detail about the sound as I'm very new to all this and have only a small stock of cheap iems to compare with. I like them a lot but in order to get a good fit I need to wear them cable up and practically bury them inside my head. I wonder if the large kz tips are smaller than other brand large.


 

 Generally means you need larger tips CrabD I always thought in the beginning I was Med. tips and kept shoving them in only to get the suggestion to go large and that was it for me


----------



## Pulpfiction

podster said:


> I see you are not really convinced on burn in and it is hard to really get but when it happens you'll be like wow!




I can imagine that the membrane changes a bit with use, it's just that I don't generally trust my own observations / perceptions of change in sound. So many psychological factors can be involved (post-purchase rationalization for instance) as well as some physiological (time of day, state of your hearing, status of sinusses) that I'm a bit apprehensive of trusting stories of the phenomena burn-in. That all being said, it was very clear to me in the ZN1 Mini because first listen almost made me want to throw it away - now I think it's pretty good for some of my musical tastes. Monk still hogging most of my ear-time though, lets see what EDR2 does :rolleyes: .


----------



## Podster

pulpfiction said:


> I can imagine that the membrane changes a bit with use, it's just that I don't generally trust my own observations / perceptions of change in sound. So many psychological factors can be involved (post-purchase rationalization for instance) as well as some physiological (time of day, state of your hearing, status of sinusses) that I'm a bit apprehensive of trusting stories of the phenomena burn-in. That all being said, it was very clear to me in the ZN1 Mini because first listen almost made me want to throw it away - now I think it's pretty good for some of my musical tastes. Monk still hogging most of my ear-time though, lets see what EDR2 does
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, looking forward to mine as well. I imagine they may also require a little tip rolling, most do
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great assessment which is part of the subjectivity in how all of us hear our music


----------



## B9Scrambler

You guys will like the EDR2. It's a darn solid iem. I did the whole tip-rolling thing with mine but went back to the medium red-cored ED9 tips. Good seal, good sound.


----------



## EISENbricher

pulpfiction said:


> It's been a while since I've used my ATE's (black translucent) and the one I still have (other one went to my father-in-law) is tucked away in its box. Really enjoyed it, lovely mids, full and decently extended subbass (that doesn't seem to impair the mids one bit) as well as great soundstage I would say are it's strong suits - worked nicely for my electronic fixes of psychill/break/dub. Fit & cable solution was excellent for me.
> 
> Weak points of the ATE for me: rolled off treble. So much so that I stayed aware of it even during casual listening. Slow / woolly bass response: those looking for fast punchy bass - look on. The subbass response also felt a bit slow, but in that freq. range I don't find it as much of a prob.
> 
> ...


 
 Good that you find ZN1mini enjoyable now. I have mixed feelings towards burn in theory but it works sometimes. ZN1mini doesn't extend too far in both sides of frequency but whatever part it represents, it does good bloat, sibilence and distortion free job.
  
 Did you get ear guide/hook with mini? With that the fit is really comfortable. For me the fit is very comfy and these days I'm wearing it almost most of the day xD Even while sleeping. 
 Some tip rolling would help in getting a nice fit. If nothing works then you may try with some foamies, they usually do the trick in most trickiest of fits. 
  
 I find mini sound beautiful with medium bore, medium size provided gray tips. Works well for me.


----------



## insomnia9669

Hey,
 I'm coming from a Vsonic VS3DS (non-detachable) that broke a few days ago. I was looking into grabbing the KZ ATE, non-S, since it seems to be the better pair of the two from what I've been reading on this thread. Could someone please link me to a KZ ATE Translucent non-S, from AliExpress? (preferably no mic) Or at least link me to a reputable AliExpress seller where I could find these.
  
 Also, I'm thinking of grabbing one other pair of KZ's, would I be better off getting a HDS1 or a ZN1 Mini? or something else entirely? (Looking for something durable, but still sounds fairly good for a friend of mine)
  
 Thanks!


----------



## CoiL

pulpfiction said:


> It's been a while since I've used my ATE's (black translucent) and the one I still have (other one went to my father-in-law) is tucked away in its box. Really enjoyed it, lovely mids, full and decently extended subbass (that doesn't seem to impair the mids one bit) as well as great soundstage I would say are it's strong suits - worked nicely for my electronic fixes of psychill/break/dub. Fit & cable solution was excellent for me.
> 
> Weak points of the ATE for me: rolled off treble. So much so that I stayed aware of it even during casual listening. Slow / woolly bass response: those looking for fast punchy bass - look on. The subbass response also felt a bit slow, but in that freq. range I don't find it as much of a prob.
> 
> ...


 
 Wish You could listen to my modded ATE(v2). I bet it would "fix" all the "issues" and stand against ZN1mini


----------



## EISENbricher

insomnia9669 said:


> Hey,
> I'm coming from a Vsonic VS3DS (non-detachable) that broke a few days ago. I was looking into grabbing the KZ ATE, non-S, since it seems to be the better pair of the two from what I've been reading on this thread. Could someone please link me to a KZ ATE Translucent non-S, from AliExpress? (preferably no mic) Or at least link me to a reputable AliExpress seller where I could find these.
> 
> Also, I'm thinking of grabbing one other pair of KZ's, would I be better off getting a HDS1 or a ZN1 Mini?
> ...


 
 This store has been very trusted for me over the time : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.3.q8HQug&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_5_505_506_503_504_10032_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10005_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201560_3,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_-1&btsid=7dba4980-1ba8-4657-a0a8-0928829b0393
  
 They do have Translucent without mic ATE here. Enjoy. 
  
 If brief terms HDS1 is a tiny sized, balanced sounding single dynamic micro driver earphone.
 ZN1 mini is dual dynamic, warm sounding behind the ear fit earphone. 
  
 Go thorough past few pages, lot of opinions about HDS1 and ZN1 mini have been posted recently. Pick your choice from the opinions.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> This store has been very trusted for me over the time : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.3.q8HQug&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_5_505_506_503_504_10032_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10005_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201560_3,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_-1&btsid=7dba4980-1ba8-4657-a0a8-0928829b0393
> 
> They do have Translucent without mic ATE here. Enjoy.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes sir, I try to buy all my KZ from the Flagship store but not all have been listed there in the past! I have and love both the HDS1 and Mini
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I recently received a gift which makes my DT5's look great


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> You guys will like the EDR2. It's a darn solid iem. I did the whole tip-rolling thing with mine but went back to the medium red-cored ED9 tips. Good seal, good sound.


 

 Yep and I still run my ED9 on those tips
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Got a pair waiting for the EDR2's now


----------



## insomnia9669

eisenbricher said:


> This store has been very trusted for me over the time : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.3.q8HQug&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_5_505_506_503_504_10032_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10005_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201560_3,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_-1&btsid=7dba4980-1ba8-4657-a0a8-0928829b0393
> 
> They do have Translucent without mic ATE here. Enjoy.
> 
> ...


 
 That one you linked is the KZ ATE S, from what I've been reading here, the Non-S is better. I can't seem to find the Non-S from that store, unfortunately.


----------



## reimontok

hey guys, i need some help, i was thinkin about getting, this comply's
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/comply-foam-ear-tips-isolation-series?utm_placement=14&referer=CYHAAZ&mode=guest_open&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Automated%20Daily%20Promotional%202016-03-03&utm_term=Daily%20Promotional

but, i dont know what model.. i bought KZ ZN1 mini, hds3 and hds1, anyone know ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Yep and I still run my ED9 on those tips:wink_face: Got a pair waiting for the EDR2's now:tongue_smile:




I actually went back to those tips on a bunch of my KZs, haha. They never sealed worth a damn before, but over the last few months they've been fine. Why? Beats me... *shrug*. I'm happy about it since I've got a crap ton of them kicking around, haha.


----------



## CADCAM

I'm sure most people on the KZ train already know this but the ED3 Acme youth kicks some @ss! nice low end and clean detail... I'm having a blast with them lately...could they be becoming my fav KZ?
  
 btw listening Black Light Syndrome...again


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I'm sure most people on the KZ train already know this but the ED3 Acme youth kicks some @ss! nice low end and clean detail... I'm having a blast with them lately...could they be becoming my fav KZ?




They are pretty fantastic aren't they?  I can easily see them being favorites for many people. They're very smooth sounding, especially for a KZ.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> They are pretty fantastic aren't they?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yea they are impressive...swapped the tips with either Puro stock tips or Auvio...can't remember anymore  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They kick arse with heavier stuff.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Yea they are impressive...swapped the tips with either Puro stock tips or Auvio...can't remember anymore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You guys are making me excited as my last purchase for KZ were EDR2's and ACME's, just waiting on the slow boat from China now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Fortunately I also have all those tips


----------



## Pulpfiction

My ear canals don't get along with stock KZ tips - I think my ear canals are too narrow. Only the foamies work if I pinch em right before they go in, the silicone ones give driver flex - even small. The olive shape is not for me I spose. These have been my go to tip since I got them on ATE and now on ZN1 Mini - will tip roll again for EDR2. 
Biflange soft silicone tips with a wide bore - got them at EE and apparently they are Sennheiser IE80 styled tips.
Medium in left ear, small in right, good to go.


----------



## CoiL

insomnia9669 said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > This store has been very trusted for me over the time : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.3.q8HQug&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_5_505_506_503_504_10032_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10005_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201560_3,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_-1&btsid=7dba4980-1ba8-4657-a0a8-0928829b0393
> ...


 
 The link is correct, just choose right version from under the price (4 pictures). Only S version has red plastic wire exit points from driver housings. Old version has them metal.


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Yes sir, I try to buy all my KZ from the Flagship store but not all have been listed there in the past! I have and love both the HDS1 and Mini
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 That stand + DT5 looks really cool!


----------



## crabdog

pulpfiction said:


> My ear canals don't get along with stock KZ tips - I think my ear canals are too narrow. Only the foamies work if I pinch em right before they go in, the silicone ones give driver flex - even small. The olive shape is not for me I spose. These have been my go to tip since I got them on ATE and now on ZN1 Mini - will tip roll again for EDR2.
> Biflange soft silicone tips with a wide bore - got them at EE and apparently they are Sennheiser IE80 styled tips.
> Medium in left ear, small in right, good to go.


 
 I'm quite happy with the stock KZ tips - just wish they were slightly larger. It's hard for me to believe so many people are using small or medium. I'm only average size (184cm) and definitely need large. Am I just some kind of freak?


----------



## noef

Can anyone compare the s3 to the hds1

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Lenovo A916 met Tapatalk


----------



## EISENbricher

Weird experience with HDS3.... 
  
 As I had posted here earlier, I had received a defective pair of HDS3 with one side sounding louder than the other. I asked seller about this and he sent me another pair of HDS3 (Which is still 2-3 days away from getting delivered to me). 
  
 Meanwhile I loved the sound of HDS3, even from defective pair so much that I went ahead and ordered another pair from a different store (only because I was so much excited and didn't want more delay). I recently got this pair. It is balanced and sounds pretty much similar to HDS1, with a bit more V-shaped signature. But the 'hype' sound wasn't quite there as I did expect. 
  
 Today I pulled the defective pair and gave a listen. The 'good side' of defective pair sounds miles better than the new balanced pair! Then I realized why I was so pumped up previously. There seems to be different driver used in it altogether, which sounds at whole another level. 
  
 I'm still waiting for the replacement HDS3 which is from same previous seller with high hopes. Let's see.


----------



## CoiL

CAn You please share link to that "better" sounding drivers HDS3 seller?


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> I'm quite happy with the stock KZ tips - just wish they were slightly larger. It's hard for me to believe so many people are using small or medium. I'm only average size (184cm) and definitely need large. Am I just some kind of freak?




Well, if you insist jk Crabdog I wear large tios as well, just got myself a boatload of large Auvio's, maybe a lifetime supply. Not sure if freak is what you would call me but I'm sure there is another choice word for me


----------



## Lifted Andreas

podster said:


> Well, if you insist jk Crabdog I wear large tios as well, just got myself a boatload of large Auvio's, maybe a lifetime supply. Not sure if freak is what you would call me but I'm sure there is another choice word for me




Hmm those Auvios need a new home yes?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> CAn You please share link to that "better" sounding drivers HDS3 seller?


 
 This one  : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-HDS3-Mini-Silver-Exquisite-Shiny-Lightweight-Monitoring-In-Ear-Headphones-HiFi-Earphone-With-Microphone/1358152_32592169439.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

@EISENbricher Eh! That's where I bought my pair


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> @EISENbricher Eh! That's where I bought my pair


 
 Was it defective, or good?


----------



## B9Scrambler

It was good


----------



## Podster

lifted andreas said:


> Hmm those Auvios need a new home yes?




Well some if them are getting a new home


----------



## Lifted Andreas

podster said:


> Well some if them are getting a new home




You're like the Auvio PETA rehousing association. Great kudos to you my friend. Us Europeans are in need of those like golden nuggets haha


----------



## anticute

If you have too many, just let me know


----------



## Podster

anticute said:


> If you have too many, just let me know




LOL, I was aftaid this might happen I saw Crabdog was going to look for large Auvio's too I may have to reconsider pricing with all this demand jk but there are may available on the bay, maybe I should scarf up more!


----------



## Lifted Andreas

podster said:


> LOL, I was aftaid this might happen I saw Crabdog was going to look for large Auvio's too I may have to reconsider pricing with all this demand jk but there are may available on the bay, maybe I should scarf up more!


 
  
 You americanos are so lucky, grrrr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Get them while the demand is small lol


----------



## crabdog

podster said:


> LOL, I was aftaid this might happen I saw Crabdog was going to look for large Auvio's too I may have to reconsider pricing with all this demand jk but there are may available on the bay, maybe I should scarf up more!


 
 Yeah I don't know if I'll be able to get any. The price of shipping in ebay is about 4x the purchase price. I'll check for alternatives first.


----------



## crabdog

Wow HDS2 looks really interesting. These guys are going crazy!
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/1246446_2033397274.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

crabdog said:


> Wow HDS2 looks really interesting. These guys are going crazy!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/1246446_2033397274.html




It's pretty bad unfortunately (I feel at least). Lots of muddy bass. About the only thing going for them is their sound stage and the tips would make good replacements for those with a legit EPH-100.


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> Wow HDS2 looks really interesting. These guys are going crazy!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/1246446_2033397274.html


 

 Word has it they sound like dookie
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think if you search this thread you can come up with that info. They appear to be a direct copy of the old Yamaha K100 I think it was. I think I still have a pair I stuck in my kids electronic stuff cabinet at home as I never even un-boxed mine after reading all the bad press:-0 That is not like me because I always make my own judgements but everyone was pretty adamant about not wasting your time or money!


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> It's pretty bad unfortunately (I feel at least). Lots of muddy bass. About the only thing going for them is their sound stage and the tips would make good replacements for those with a legit EPH-100.


 
 Looks like that familiar old sticky cable again too


----------



## EISENbricher

Courtesy to @HiFiChris and @Hisoundfi here are some FR graph for KZ. 
 For convenience I'm storing these (and upcoming) graphs in my album visible in my signature. 
  
 KZ ED9 (Gold and Brass Filter):
  

  
  
 KZ ZN1, ZS1, HDS1


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> Looks like that familiar old sticky cable again too


 

 Well you could just go this route
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I stand correct on the K100 as it's EPH as B9 says
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-EPH100SL-EPH-100SL-Inner-Ear-Headphone/dp/B00591GIMY/ref=pd_sim_23_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=31OWYnlzcvL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR128%2C160_&refRID=0FHCVA3XMY33GFDARN22


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Courtesy to @HiFiChris and @Hisoundfi here are some FR graph for KZ.
> For convenience I'm storing these (and upcoming) graphs in my album visible in my signature.
> 
> KZ ED9 (Gold and Brass Filter):
> ...


 
 Wow, after about 300 both filters are about the same on the ED9's, not sure which line belongs to which iem in the bottom graph
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice work Chris/Vince


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Wow, after about 300 both filters are about the same on the ED9's, not sure which line belongs to which iem in the bottom graph:blink: Nice work Chris/Vince:wink_face:




My guess is ZS1 red, ZN1 the yellow (or green?...I have no idea) and blue to the HDS1.


----------



## HiFiChris

@B9Scrambler
  
 You're right with the guesses. 
 And it's green.


----------



## Podster

hifichris said:


> @B9Scrambler
> 
> You're right with the guesses.
> And it's green.


 

 THX Chris, that ZS1 red has some radical movement on it!


----------



## Lifted Andreas

podster said:


> Word has it they sound like dookie:eek: I think if you search this thread you can come up with that info. They appear to be a direct copy of the old Yamaha K100 I think it was. I think I still have a pair I stuck in my kids electronic stuff cabinet at home as I never even un-boxed mine after reading all the bad press:-0 That is not like me because I always make my own judgements but everyone was pretty adamant about not wasting your time or money!




Wow you have some EPH100 that are still in box??? Mate I'll grab them off ya if you're getting rid of them. Some of my fav IEMs for Trance.


----------



## Pulpfiction

ZN1 is ZN1 Mini with amplifier right? I don't see the rolled off subbass I think I hear in that graph, so I suppose so. Looking at it I can see why I think the treble is rolled off too, I hear up to 16khz so for my ears theres nothing after 10khz (if the ZN1 Mini responds similarly). But to my ears the ATE is considerably more rolled off in treble (only had translucent) - I wonder about the curve on that one !! 

Thnx for sharing these, interesting!


----------



## Podster

lifted andreas said:


> Wow you have some EPH100 that are still in box??? Mate I'll grab them off ya if you're getting rid of them. Some of my fav IEMs for Trance.


 

 I have the KZ knockoff HDS2 version!
  
 Pulp, the ZN1 has the amp and the ZN1 Mini does not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oops, should have read your post more clearly as you stated it right


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> My guess is ZS1 red, ZN1 the yellow (or green?...I have no idea) and blue to the HDS1.


 
 You are on point with guesses 
  


pulpfiction said:


> ZN1 is ZN1 Mini with amplifier right? I don't see the rolled off subbass I think I hear in that graph, so I suppose so. Looking at it I can see why I think the treble is rolled off too, I hear up to 16khz so for my ears theres nothing after 10khz (if the ZN1 Mini responds similarly). But to my ears the ATE is considerably more rolled off in treble (only had translucent) - I wonder about the curve on that one !!
> 
> Thnx for sharing these, interesting!


 
 Yup, for this test Chris had turned off the amplifier part. I'm not sure though the ZN1 with amp turned off would exactly sound like ZN1 mini or not. 
 We need ATE FR graph too. Wish I had the equipment for it. But I've asked in the Lab thread, they will help in this. Vince would be bringing more graphs today, probably. 
  


podster said:


> Wow, after about 300 both filters are about the same on the ED9's, not sure which line belongs to which iem in the bottom graph
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Pretty interesting, right?


----------



## CADCAM

Update ~~~
  
 Purchased EDR2 from Shenzhen Pursuiting Flagship Store http://www.aliexpress.com/store/512142 on February 7th received them today March 4th...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Off to burn-in and tip rolling. I think this might be my last KZ...too many hp's not enough time.
 Took a quick listen and they sound good OOTB.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Update ~~~
> 
> Purchased EDR2 from Shenzhen Pursuiting Flagship Store http://www.aliexpress.com/store/512142 on February 7th received them today March 4th...:blink:
> Off to burn-in and tip rolling. I think this might be my last KZ...too many hp's not enough time.
> Took a quick listen and they sound good OOTB.




Let me put this to you like Dr. Suess (sp) would! "Go Cad Go"


----------



## HiFiChris

@EISENbricher

 Here's the KZ ATE (stock silicone tips):


  
 Yep, that's the "calibrated", diffuse-field compensated measurement. Looks quite neutral with a roll-off in the upper treble (the dip around 6 kHz is around 5 dB less present, it is a calibration error), doesn't it? But that's totally not how the ATE sounds in my ears. To me, it sounds bassy, thick, dark, voluminous.


----------



## CADCAM

OK not sure why but I've been listening to this Black Light Syndrome disc constantly for days now and randomly tried track 2 with the EDR2 and it was OK but they need burn-in so mute point. Tried the Puro IEM500 and just wasn't happening so threw on the ED3 Acme and BAM! this is sounding good now...rockin' deep bass and crunchy highs I'm liking these little b@$t@rds more and more...


----------



## AsheshM

cadcam said:


> OK not sure why but I've been listening to this Black Light Syndrome disc constantly for days now and randomly tried track 2 with the EDR2 and it was OK but they need burn-in so mute point. Tried the Puro IEM500 and just wasn't happening so threw on the ED3 Acme and BAM! this is sounding good now...rockin' deep bass and crunchy highs I'm liking these little b@$t@rds more and more...


 

 which tips you are using with ED3? anything from KZ or aliexp???


----------



## 1clearhead

pulpfiction said:


> My ear canals don't get along with stock KZ tips - I think my ear canals are too narrow. Only the foamies work if I pinch em right before they go in, the silicone ones give driver flex - even small. The olive shape is not for me I spose. These have been my go to tip since I got them on ATE and now on ZN1 Mini - will tip roll again for EDR2.
> Biflange soft silicone tips with a wide bore - got them at EE and apparently they are Sennheiser IE80 styled tips.
> Medium in left ear, small in right, good to go.


 
 The double flange wide-bored tips you have pictured are the same exact kinds I'm using on my ATN (ZN1). They work wonders on comfort and SQ. Nice posting!


----------



## EISENbricher

hifichris said:


> @EISENbricher
> 
> Here's the KZ ATE (stock silicone tips):
> 
> ...


 
 Exactly, I was totally expecting some kind of hump on the lower side. The word you used to describe ATE are just perfect.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hifichris said:


> @B9Scrambler
> 
> You're right with the guesses.
> And it's green.


 
  
 Ah yeah! The ZS1 just had to be the wonkiest of the bunch. No wonder I love it so much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Black sheep of the KZ family.


----------



## j0p3Y

pulpfiction said:


> My ear canals don't get along with stock KZ tips - I think my ear canals are too narrow. Only the foamies work if I pinch em right before they go in, the silicone ones give driver flex - even small.


'Driver flex'.. Is that the sound I get with some of my iems (with silicone tips) when I put them in my ear canal? Clicks like the membrane is pushed in too far. I was thinking my eardrum was giving me problems, perhaps not clean enough or a bit moist from showering...


----------



## Ruben123

cadcam said:


> OK not sure why but I've been listening to this Black Light Syndrome disc constantly for days now and randomly tried track 2 with the EDR2 and it was OK but they need burn-in so mute point. Tried the Puro IEM500 and just wasn't happening so threw on the ED3 Acme and BAM! this is sounding good now...rockin' deep bass and crunchy highs I'm liking these little b@$t@rds more and more...




Which one is the most neutral? And are the ed3 s3 or acme and others the same? I really lost in kz land regarding the ed3s...


----------



## Mellowship

eisenbricher said:


> Exactly, I was totally expecting some kind of hump on the lower side. The word you used to describe ATE are just perfect.


 
 I found the ATEs very tip-dependant. For the past week I used them with the silicone stock large tips and they where balanced for my taste. A little bit veiled at the mids, but not too much that it would take away the enjoyment. Been listening to classic lately and these do a fine job with micro and macro dynamics and detail. 
 Yesterday I did some tip rolling. Tried the stock foamsies but the fit was irregular. Double flanges (MEEelec) where also too irregular and prone to small variations of leakage though movement. The I tried the Sony Hybrids, large, and the sound went totally south. Dull, boomy, no treble, no nothing to write home about... And the Sony's are my favourite tips so far with many other earphones, mainly for fitting comfort and isolation. Back to the stock silicones I went.


----------



## AsheshM

j0p3y said:


> 'Driver flex'.. Is that the sound I get with some of my iems (with silicone tips) when I put them in my ear canal? Clicks like the membrane is pushed in too far. I was thinking my eardrum was giving me problems, perhaps not clean enough or a bit moist from showering...


 

 Same problem with my ED3. I was thinking some problem with my ear, but found it is issue with the right earphone only. How do i get rid of it??


----------



## joemama

crabdog said:


> Wow HDS2 looks really interesting. These guys are going crazy!
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-apparatus-of-5-8-MM-acme-micro-ring-in-ear-headphones-high-resolution-penetrating-voice/1246446_2033397274.html


 

 Pass on them. Bought them when they first came out and they went to the back of the drawer after a listen both before and after burn-in. Lots of bass but that's about it.


----------



## nolife1123

asheshm said:


> Same problem with my ED3. I was thinking some problem with my ear, but found it is issue with the right earphone only. How do i get rid of it??


 
 Same here with KZ ATE and **** UE, with multiple tips, tho they are falling out quite often and sound veiled/blurry UNLESS I move my bottom jaw to the right slightly, as much sense as it makes it relieves the pressure of the ear channel off of both of my ears and it actually sounds great, could likely be a tip issue with me, as I use the stock tips, since I don't have a collection of any kind. However, I couldn't really go any smaller either, I'm using small eartips and it's still producing driver flex and feels like a plunger inside my ear when inserting/inserted .


----------



## vegetaleb

nolife1123 said:


> Same here with KZ ATE and **** UE, with multiple tips, tho they are falling out quite often and sound veiled/blurry UNLESS I move my bottom jaw to the right slightly, as much sense as it makes it relieves the pressure of the ear channel off of both of my ears and it actually sounds great, could likely be a tip issue with me, as I use the stock tips, since I don't have a collection of any kind. However, I couldn't really go any smaller either, I'm using small eartips and it's still producing driver flex and feels like a plunger inside my ear when inserting/inserted .


 
  
 What about the ZS1? they fall out easily too?


----------



## nolife1123

vegetaleb said:


> What about the ZS1? they fall out easily too?


 
 Don't have them, not a fan of extremely bassy earphones, prefer balanced neutral ones instead, but likely yes, I don't believe I ever got a single IEM to fit properly, not even the piston 3s.


----------



## vegetaleb

nolife1123 said:


> Don't have them, not a fan of extremely bassy earphones, prefer balanced neutral ones instead, but likely yes, I don't believe I ever got a single IEM to fit properly, not even the piston 3s.


 
  
 Yep me too, but if the ZS1 are good fit then ZS2 will be too and hopefully ZS2 will be a sort of ZN1 without the amp but with the mic, instead of super bass


----------



## j0p3Y

asheshm said:


> Same problem with my ED3. I was thinking some problem with my ear, but found it is issue with the right earphone only. How do i get rid of it??


right side here also... Coincidence I guess, 50%chance. Latest one was the ZN1 mini. Also **** UE does have this issue, but still nice fit. Also EDR2 has quite some issues with fitting in the canals. Not yet into foam, I guess I might try some cheap ones first (fit size)


----------



## CADCAM

asheshm said:


> which tips you are using with ED3? anything from KZ or aliexp???


 

 I'm using tips from my Puro IEM500's...thought I was using Auvio's but checked and they are the stock medium(ish) Puro's. What size are you?


----------



## CADCAM

OK... EDR2's have been burning in almost continuously and I'm giving them a quick listen. Much better than OOTB. I also swapped tips to Puro stocks and it's good. Nice detail in the highs and decent bass. Between these and ED3c these are my new go to KZ's and they sound like they cost much more than the do. My ED9's are always close by but out of all my other KZ's the EDR2 and ED3c are getting my time and attention. The ED3c is superior IMO but these EDR2's are good also...more to come.


----------



## nhlean96

mellowship said:


> I found the ATEs very tip-dependant. For the past week I used them with the silicone stock large tips and they where balanced for my taste. A little bit veiled at the mids, but not too much that it would take away the enjoyment. Been listening to classic lately and these do a fine job with micro and macro dynamics and detail.
> Yesterday I did some tip rolling. Tried the stock foamsies but the fit was irregular. Double flanges (MEEelec) where also too irregular and prone to small variations of leakage though movement. The I tried the Sony Hybrids, large, and the sound went totally south. Dull, boomy, no treble, no nothing to write home about... And the Sony's are my favourite tips so far with many other earphones, mainly for fitting comfort and isolation. Back to the stock silicones I went.


 
 ATEs pair with stock silicone tips is too bassy IMO, the stock foam sucks )
 ATEs + Red coil tips (ED9 stock tips) works surprisingly well, the bass is more impactful, less boomy. Treble extends a little bit.
 Can't wait to get my hand on EDR2, which is just $5/piece on tmall


----------



## AsheshM

cadcam said:


> I'm using tips from my Puro IEM500's...thought I was using Auvio's but checked and they are the stock medium(ish) Puro's. What size are you?


 

 For me medium fits well. Since I have only the stock eartips, was wondering if i could buy something. I have to buy from aliexpress or similar site shipping to India. Any suggestions. Today ordered the ICONS, should i get something for them too??


----------



## Khalid762

Which pair would recommend if i mostly listen to pop and edm


----------



## EISENbricher

khalid762 said:


> Which pair would recommend if i mostly listen to pop and edm


 
 ED10/11 or ZN1 mini. ED9 with gold filter would go well too.


----------



## vegetaleb

eisenbricher said:


> ED10/11 or ZN1 mini. ED9 with gold filter would go well too.


 
  
 I am waiting for ZN1 Mini + Mic version, do you think KZ will release it soon?


----------



## EISENbricher

vegetaleb said:


> I am waiting for ZN1 Mini + Mic version, do you think KZ will release it soon?


 
 I don't think so... Actually ZN1 mini doesn't even seem like a planned product. The presence of 4pin connector but no mic, as well as the unexpected short cable are enough proof that ZN1 mini are manufactured from ZN1 stock.


----------



## AsheshM

cadcam said:


> OK... EDR2's have been burning in almost continuously and I'm giving them a quick listen. Much better than OOTB. I also swapped tips to Puro stocks and it's good. Nice detail in the highs and decent bass. Between these and ED3c these are my new go to KZ's and they sound like they cost much more than the do. My ED9's are always close by but out of all my other KZ's the EDR2 and ED3c are getting my time and attention. The ED3c is superior IMO but these EDR2's are good also...more to come.


 

 I believe ED3 acme.. which tips are you using with these??


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> Which one is the most neutral? And are the ed3 s3 or acme and others the same? I really lost in kz land regarding the ed3s...


 

 I would say none are neutral as say the HDS1... the ED3c & EDR2 definitely stray off the neutral path but IMO the ED3c strays more but with better results. I find the ED3c better as of right now with a smoother sound sig and great bass. The EDR2 sounds good but is a step behind...going to burn them in a bit more before passing a final judgement.


----------



## CADCAM

asheshm said:


> For me medium fits well. Since I have only the stock eartips, was wondering if i could buy something. I have to buy from aliexpress or similar site shipping to India. Any suggestions. Today ordered the ICONS, should i get something for them too??


 

 Don't know about what's available in your area maybe someone else could give you options based on your location...


----------



## AsheshM

cadcam said:


> Don't know about what's available in your area maybe someone else could give you options based on your location...


 

 sure thanks.


----------



## CADCAM

asheshm said:


> I believe ED3 acme.. which tips are you using with these??


 

 I'm using Puro IEM500 stock tips (in medium).


----------



## Kelzo

Can someone tell what's the difference with ZS1 with the ZN1? 

 Anyone seen the new ZS2 the one that's color violet? I just ordered it the other day which is about 3 dollars pricier than the ZS1 D:


----------



## EISENbricher

kelzo said:


> Can someone tell what's the difference with ZS1 with the ZN1?
> 
> 
> Anyone seen the new ZS2 the one that's color violet? I just ordered it the other day which is about 3 dollars pricier than the ZS1 D:



Here you go http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone/reviews/14605


----------



## Ruben123

Can someone compare KZ EDR2 to Sennheiser IE800? From reading the reviews it seems that they must share quite a bit but I dont own IE800.


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> Can someone compare KZ EDR2 to Sennheiser IE800? From reading the reviews it seems that they must share quite a bit but I dont own IE800.


 
 I don't have the Senn's but just got in the EDR2 and have been going back and forth with them and the ED3c and can say I find the Ed3c just a bit better at everything. The ED3c is smoother with better detail in the treble, I also find the bass to be more present with a bit more authority. I let the EDR2 burn-in for a couple days straight and it did improve quite a bit and I think they sound very good for the price (6 dollars). They seem lighter than my EDSE's which look to have the same housing\body shape. The treble on the EDR2 isn't as smooth as the ED3c IMO and it seems just a step behind.
 So if you don't have the ED3c I would say order it along with the EDR2 or maybe even try it first and see if you like its sound sig. I enjoy both but find the ED3c better on my setup. Hope that helps.


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> Can someone compare KZ EDR2 to Sennheiser IE800? From reading the reviews it seems that they must share quite a bit but I dont own IE800.


 
 What! Comparing a $10 to $1000?! I mean law of diminishing returns is there but 100 times costly earphone


----------



## CADCAM

Is the IE800 a 1K hp? I had no idea! Yea not a fair fight against a KZ if true...


----------



## Ruben123

Lol maybe I meant another model around $200-300 (ie 80?). Smooth slightly v-shaped sound with detailed and smooth mids. Good sound stage too, to name a few.


----------



## AsheshM

My KZ ED3 is not even a month old and the right earphone is not working. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 seems like something is loose.. Bad luck..


----------



## Lifted Andreas

asheshm said:


> My KZ ED3 is not even a month old and the right earphone is not working.   seems like something is loose.. Bad luck..




It's something KZ have to work on tbh, the reliability side of the production isn't up to scratch yet.


----------



## crabdog

I was doing some tip rolling with my EDR2 today and as I was pulling the tip off the casing on the left popped out and snapped the wires D:

So keep in mind if tip rolling the edr2 make sure you hold the end near the nozzle...


----------



## AT Khan

iwaffle said:


> So a friend of mine told me to give Knowledge Zenith a try (amongst other things), so I looked it up and ended up here, and then ended up ordering myself a set of ZS1's after skimming through the thread and also after auditioning a few of KZ's IEMs through a kind soul who lives near here... and I've got to say..
> 
> God. Damn. Is it me or does the ZS1 possess some _really_ sick sub-bass?
> 
> ...


 
 God. Damn. Is it me or does the ZS1 possess some _really_ sick sub-bass?
  
 IT DOES. Yeah. It really does. I was surprised myself. Dual drivers actually working... in such an economical package.
 BTW I have the ZN1. The only difference the ZN1 has is that it has an inline amp. Though dont get that. It's pretty bulky. And my amp was DOA. Couldn't claim or undo anything so am just living with it...


----------



## EISENbricher

at khan said:


> God. Damn. Is it me or does the ZS1 possess some _really_ sick sub-bass?
> 
> IT DOES. Yeah. It really does. I was surprised myself. Dual drivers actually working... in such an economical package.
> BTW I have the ZN1. The only difference the ZN1 has is that it has an inline amp. Though dont get that. It's pretty bulky. And my amp was DOA. Couldn't claim or undo anything so am just living with it...


 
 What? ZN1 is very different sounding compared to ZS1. It also has different kind of drivers inside, add into that the different filters as well. 
  
 I'd say just open the dead amp and connect input directly to output. You can also remove the entire assembly and directly join the wires (you'll lose mic function though). And treat it like ZN1 mini. It's a no slouch.


----------



## B9Scrambler

crabdog said:


> I was doing some tip rolling with my EDR2 today and as I was pulling the tip off the casing on the left popped out and snapped the wires D:
> 
> So keep in mind if tip rolling the edr2 make sure you hold the end near the nozzle...


 
  
 Either you guys that have had housings split apart have some seriously bad luck or Godzilla grip, lol. The only KZ out of the plethora I own that have come apart were the very first pair I bought; Micro Ring. That was because there was no glue whatsoever, haha. Very unfortunate @crabdog


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> Either you guys that have had housings split apart have some seriously bad luck or Godzilla grip, lol. The only KZ out of the plethora I own that have come apart were the very first pair I bought; Micro Ring. That was because there was no glue whatsoever, haha. Very unfortunate @crabdog


 
 Admittedly I was in a tip rolling frenzy and grabbed the thing right on the (wrong) end lol. Oh well, lesson learned.


----------



## AT Khan

eisenbricher said:


> What? ZN1 is very different sounding compared to ZS1. It also has different kind of drivers inside, add into that the different filters as well.
> 
> I'd say just open the dead amp and connect input directly to output. You can also remove the entire assembly and directly join the wires (you'll lose mic function though). And treat it like ZN1 mini. It's a no slouch.


 
 Yeah i know. But sometimes my DIY **** gets ugly looking. I'll try something though. Well they do function in a passive mode anyhow, thanks to KZ for providing that passive on/off switch. So are you suggesting the ZN1 and mini sound better than the ZS1? Then it's good. Good shot I think, un-knowingly. I'll skip the ZS1 anyhow then and DIY this.
  
 Soundwise though, these are the s.h.i.t.s no doubt. Never expected such a low price gear to sound so well. How different are they from the ZS1 btw? I off the top of my head thought the ZS1 would be better. They have the crossovers? and stuff someone highlighted - you maybe.


----------



## EISENbricher

at khan said:


> Yeah i know. But sometimes my DIY **** gets ugly looking. I'll try something though. Well they do function in a passive mode anyhow, thanks to KZ for providing that passive on/off switch. So are you suggesting the ZN1 and mini sound better than the ZS1? Then it's good. Good shot I think, un-knowingly. I'll skip the ZS1 anyhow then and DIY this.
> 
> Soundwise though, these are the s.h.i.t.s no doubt. Never expected such a low price gear to sound so well. How different are they from the ZS1 btw? I off the top of my head thought the ZS1 would be better. They have the crossovers? and stuff someone highlighted - you maybe.



Well, ZS1 has massive, monster bass which extends more than ZN1. But as issue with all bass heavy phones the lows tower above other frequencies. Mids and highs sound clear, just that they take a back seat.


----------



## AT Khan

So I guess these are better then. They have everything that's clear, and lot of instrument separation too. But I dont understand. Do these also have crossovers? Cuz with crossovers, if the ZS1 have them, things should be more well balanced, no? And is it more than that? Different drives too, in both of these? Different how? Sorry if I'm asking you a lot of these questions.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Either you guys that have had housings split apart have some seriously bad luck or Godzilla grip, lol. The only KZ out of the plethora I own that have come apart were the very first pair I bought; Micro Ring. That was because there was no glue whatsoever, haha. Very unfortunate @crabdog


 

 Maybe I've been lucky as well, out of the dozen KZ iem's I now posses the only problem I've had was one pair of my 3 ATE has red on both brass cable attachment housings, no sound issues whatsoever but a build/QC problem! For the price of all the KZ's I'm very happy with their products
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I also think the original amped ZN1 is a killer headphone but just bad layout for amp location and cable length between the amp and ears


----------



## EISENbricher

at khan said:


> So I guess these are better then. They have everything that's clear, and lot of instrument separation too. But I dont understand. Do these also have crossovers? Cuz with crossovers, if the ZS1 have them, things should be more well balanced, no? And is it more than that? Different drives too, in both of these? Different how? Sorry if I'm asking you a lot of these questions.


 
 No crossover circuits present in the ZS1 / ZN1. The drivers even look a lot different. I own ZS1 and ZN1 mini and the drivers are definitely different. I had even posted a pic here somewhere in this thread.
  
 Just one advice, there are lot of better alternatives which will nicely complement sound of ZN1. Go for those. ZS1 is okay but there are better options if you prefer more balanced sound. ZS1 are strictly no-no if you are expecting even remotest of the balanced sound.


----------



## j0p3Y

podster said:


> Maybe I've been lucky as well, out of the dozen KZ iem's I now posses the only problem I've had was one pair of my 3 ATE has red on both brass cable attachment housings, no sound issues whatsoever but a build/QC problem! For the price of all the KZ's I'm very happy with their products
> 
> I also think the original amped ZN1 is a killer headphone but just bad layout for amp location and cable length between the amp and ears


looks like a retro style hearing impaired auxiliary for the elderly... Quite ugly actually


----------



## B9Scrambler

j0p3y said:


> looks like a retro style hearing impaired auxiliary for the elderly... Quite ugly actually




I thought it looked like it was designed for all the hip kids.


----------



## j0p3Y

b9scrambler said:


> I thought it looked like it was designed for all the hip kids.


yeeahhhh..r-i-i-ight... . (not serious, are you?)


----------



## B9Scrambler

j0p3y said:


> yeeahhhh..r-i-i-ight... . (not serious, are you?)




I'm so very totally serious. All them kids and their hips. Mmhmm.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I'm so very totally serious. All them kids and their hips. Mmhmm.


 

 I've actually gotten several props for using both the supplied clips in this manner, the ZN1 is a great headphone if your just sitting back in your easy chair and they stay put if your fetchin' a cold one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kids, what do they know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Except maybe to make some smart-elic remark about some old guy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL
  
 Of course right this minute I'm listening to a hole notha animal!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> I've actually gotten several props for using both the supplied clips in this manner, the ZN1 is a great headphone if your just sitting back in your easy chair and they stay put if your fetchin' a cold one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was not poking fun at anyone in particular, least of all you Podster. If you recall I was one of those that gave you props for your creative use of shirt clips to harness that beast. I was just having some fun with @j0p3Y's comment.
  
 The FLCs are pretty nice aren't they?


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I was not poking fun at anyone in particular, least of all you Podster. If you recall I was one of those that gave you props for your creative use of shirt clips to harness that beast. I was just having some fun with @j0p3Y
> 's comment.
> 
> The FLCs are pretty nice aren't they?




Oh I know but as old as I am I have teenage boys and anytime I get a chance to mess with kids I imbibe I too was just guving j03 a little razzing for the hearing aid box on my chest. It's really a nice little iem for the money however poorly laid out the design! Now these FLC's are in a whole other catagory but for $350 it very well should be

I have a feeling some of the big boys will have to sit up and take notice when FLC releases thise CIEM's they are working on As far as I can tell the Shanling M2 with these FLC8s are a fame changer at the $600 price point. I current have the Lotoo PAW5000 with the FLC's and it's a sweet hiwever quirky little DAP and maybe $50 to $75 over what it should be but still a good soundins unit. Just got thise in as I'm ending my time with Aune A2/B1 in a couple days. A2 is nice and in blurr just gorgeous with very goid sound but chassis is a little large and sounds hollow when it taps another solid object but my teal con is it's battery life and ability to hold its charge But that B1 amp is a hoss, clean and powerful, the trick little LED's inside remind me of theprotection cicuit LED's on my BAT VK-200

Cheers


----------



## EISENbricher

Just received EDR2, I like them out of the box! Definitely one of the KZs which are good at highs. The bass quantity is enough. Well these are just OOTB impressions. I'll give these proper burn in and tip roll to extract best out of. 
  
 The design is almost like EDSE. It improves on EDSE in some ways. I'm very confused whether the material used in construction is metal or plastic. It looks like metal but at the same time it also does look like plastic (as in case of DT3). Cable is the same generic KZ cable. 
  
 UPDATE : The material is certainly metal. I help the earphone in the sunlight for some time and the earphone body got heated up. Plastic bodies don't heat up much.
  
 Also got my VE monks and these are good. I need to spend more time though, which unfortunately I can't as I'm in office right now.
  
  
 Here's how the EDR2 looks like. EDSE owners can see the difference.


----------



## SilentCinema

eisenbricher said:


> Just received EDR2, I like them out of the box! Definitely one of the KZs which are good at highs. The bass quantity is enough. Well these are just OOTB impressions. I'll give these proper burn in and tip roll to extract best out of.
> 
> The design is almost like EDSE. It improves on EDSE in some ways. I'm very confused whether the material used in construction is metal or plastic. It looks like metal but at the same time it also does look like plastic (as in case of DT3). Cable is the same generic KZ cable.
> 
> ...


Yeh i received them today your description sounds similar to mine which is a good thing, they are 100% better than my hds3 IMO, i found the hds3 had too much of a strong mid bass and the mids were unnaturally foward when i compared it to iems like the Puro IEM500 and joyroom E107. Back to the edr2 first impression much more balanced than the hds3 and bass is there not over powering but not lacking. Oh well off to the burner to get a more refined description.


----------



## SilentCinema

A/b with edr2 and joyroom E107 both with around 2 hours worth of burn in time. Joyroom E107, immediate winner instruments separation is greater along with better soundstage airyness, listening to flac 24 bit Maroon 5-animals, i got lost in the track with the joyroom E107 (great instrument separation for price point) but with the Edr2 i felt the track sounded a bit crammed together making it sound as if some instruments were missing. Oh well just my opinion nevertheless erd2 is still a good budget earphone if u need a microphone and the build does seem stronger than the joyroom E107 and still definitely better than the hds3 imo.


----------



## B9Scrambler

EISENbricher Glad you're enjoying the EDR2. Design is identical to the EDse, just made with aluminum instead of cast iron or whatever they used, haha. I posted pics way back with the two side by side. Can't recall which page.

*Edit: EDR2 nozzle might be longer. Will have to double-check.*

SilentCinema

I agree that the EDR2 are 100% better than the HDS3. Those ended up being a big disappointment, though not nearly as much as the HDS2. Those are a real stinker


----------



## Majin

Does anybody have a problem with their KZ ZN1? I used mine several times and didn't had any problems, then I sold it and the buyer says the battery life is like 1 hour and the amp keeps producing a cracking noise.


----------



## Podster

majin said:


> Does anybody have a problem with their KZ ZN1? I used mine several times and didn't had any problems, then I sold it and the buyer says the battery life is like 1 hour and the amp keeps producing a cracking noise.


 

 Mine still work great Majin, make sure that he has put a full charge on them and if he's running them amp on or amp off. Make sure he's plugged all the way into the DAP. It can be a little quirky at first but once you have it down it's a breeze. Maybe they just ended up not liking them and what's driving their complaint!
 Though this DAP did not need them they still sounded very sweet with them


----------



## Majin

podster said:


> Mine still work great Majin, make sure that he has put a full charge on them and if he's running them amp on or amp off. Make sure he's plugged all the way into the DAP. It can be a little quirky at first but once you have it down it's a breeze. Maybe they just ended up not liking them and what's driving their complaint!
> Though this DAP did not need them they still sounded very sweet with them


 
  
 Ye i'm really wondering if he just doesn't like it and is complaining about all those things. I've never had any cracking sound except if i turn on the amp and then touch the gold plated connecter with my fingers. Battery life was never under 1 hour so i am wondering if he is exaggerating it.


----------



## martino416

I haven't followed this thread in a very long time since August - which are the best KZ right now? 
 I have Ed9 , ATE , ED10. I really enjoy the ED9 sound - the ED10 is to bassy for me. I enjoy the ATE as well but I think ED9 sounds better.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## EISENbricher

martino416 said:


> I haven't followed this thread in a very long time since August - which are the best KZ right now?
> I have Ed9 , ATE , ED10. I really enjoy the ED9 sound - the ED10 is to bassy for me. I enjoy the ATE as well but I think ED9 sounds better.
> 
> Thanks!




Current new gen best crop is ZN1 mini, EDR2, HDS1, ZS1. 

If you like ATE then you may like ZN1 mini for its warm sound and big soundstage. 
HDS1 would be spiritual successor of ED9 with brass nozzle. 
Similarly EDR2 would go well with those loving gold nozzle on ED9. 
ED10 lovers, ZS1 is your next buy.


----------



## vegetaleb

What's the difference between ATE and ATES apart the memory cable?
 I would try the ZS2 but it looks it's as super bassy as ZS1 reading the comment in Aliexpress, I hoped they were like Z1N with a wide soundstage


----------



## EISENbricher

Guys, got a word from KZ official shop. ZS2 are just aesthetically different from ZS1. Drivers are similar to ZS1.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Guys, got a word from KZ official shop. ZS2 are just aesthetically different from ZS1. Drivers are similar to ZS1.




That's disappointing. Glad I passed. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## vegetaleb

eisenbricher said:


> Guys, got a word from KZ official shop. ZS2 are just aesthetically different from ZS1. Drivers are similar to ZS1.


 
  
 Thanks for the info bro.
 So back to ATE-S or W1 Pro choice.
 Why on earth they didn't do a Z1N ampless (with mic)?
 Any new model incoming from them?


----------



## martino416

eisenbricher said:


> Current new gen best crop is ZN1 mini, EDR2, HDS1, ZS1.
> 
> If you like ATE then you may like ZN1 mini for its warm sound and big soundstage.
> HDS1 would be spiritual successor of ED9 with brass nozzle.
> ...


 

 Thanks! Would you say ZN1 mini has the deepest/widest soundstage out of all kz?


----------



## CADCAM

eisenbricher said:


> Current new gen best crop is ZN1 mini, EDR2, HDS1, ZS1.
> 
> If you like ATE then you may like ZN1 mini for its warm sound and big soundstage.
> HDS1 would be spiritual successor of ED9 with brass nozzle.
> ...


 

 I have the HDS1 and do not feel they are that similar to (my favorite) ED9 brass...HDS1 is fairly neutral as KZ's go IMO and I find the ED9 brass having more detail and overall treble energy. The HDS1 for me can sound a bit flat coming from a ED9. I have the EDSE and the EDR2 and am still going back and forth but may prefer the EDSE which is lively and musical. The EDR2 can get a little ragged for me in the treble but I am still comparing the two and the EDR2 is relatively new with only a couple days burn-in. I actually prefer the ED3c over the EDR2 or EDSE. I couldn't get a correct fit with the ZS1 so I'm not able to use them. I have the ATE and it seems smooth and dark with rolled of highs but I keep it because it's musical and warm.
 This is coming from my Beresford Capella amp, Bushmaster MKII DAC, Samsung Blu-ray player and Audio Art cables while listening to CD's and most importantly these are my own personal opinions.


----------



## Podster

martino416 said:


> Thanks! Would you say ZN1 mini has the deepest/widest soundstage out of all kz?




I don't know about Cad or Eisen but I sure do. There is no doubt in anyones mind here that ED9 is my altime favorite KZ but both the ZN1 Mini and HDS1 have a better/wider soundstage to me. The to me may not be to you but I tell it like I hear it 

I finally broke down and have an ACME (the Perfectiins are no slouch either), EDR2 and ED4 (I think! Is that bad or what) ordered☺️ All that means is the test of my KZ crew could be in jeopardy as far as positiin in my lineup


----------



## dbhai

podster said:


> I've actually gotten several props for using both the supplied clips in this manner, the ZN1 is a great headphone if your just sitting back in your easy chair and they stay put if your fetchin' a cold one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pardon my ignorance here, but what is that setup with iPod shuffle, pretty much curious to know

 seen another such image by you earlier in this thread too


----------



## Podster

dbhai said:


> Pardon my ignorance here, but what is that setup with iPod shuffle, pretty much curious to know
> 
> 
> seen another such image by you earlier in this thread too




My apologies db, it is a Shuffle connected (velcro'd) to a Brainwavz AP001 dual headphone out amp driving the wonderful FLC 8s multi filtered/tunable iem's. Exceptionally small with outstanding sound


----------



## dbhai

podster said:


> My apologies db, it is a Shuffle connected (velcro'd) to a Brainwavz AP001 dual headphone out amp driving the wonderful FLC 8s multi filtered/tunable iem's. Exceptionally small with outstanding sound


 
  
 oh please. no apologies, thank you for the info, I was interested in that amp since it got launched, now I shall try to get it in some deal if possible

 as I too have iPod shuffle, coincidentally of same color - that is really nice looking setup, have you used your KZ's with it ?


----------



## Shawn71

podster said:


> My apologies db, it is a Shuffle connected (velcro'd) to a Brainwavz AP001 dual headphone out amp driving the wonderful FLC 8s multi filtered/tunable iem's. Exceptionally small with outstanding sound




And that picture wld'nt be sexy if it doest have the jds ultra short cable......


----------



## Shawn71

dbhai said:


> oh please. no apologies, thank you for the info, I was interested in that amp since it got launched, now I shall try to get it in some deal if possible
> 
> 
> as I too have iPod shuffle, coincidentally of same color - that is really nice looking setup, have you used your KZ's with it ?




You already knocked the deal door!......mp4n has the free deal of omega micro dynamic iem along with ap001, IF that interests you.


----------



## tusharthegamer

anything new coming from KZ !


----------



## EISENbricher

martino416 said:


> Thanks! Would you say ZN1 mini has the deepest/widest soundstage out of all kz?


 
 IMO ED8m has the deepest and widest soundstage among KZ. But ZN1 mini has big soundstage too.
  


vegetaleb said:


> Thanks for the info bro.
> So back to ATE-S or W1 Pro choice.
> Why on earth they didn't do a Z1N ampless (with mic)?
> Any new model incoming from them?


 
 Not that i know of. 
  


cadcam said:


> I have the HDS1 and do not feel they are that similar to (my favorite) ED9 brass...HDS1 is fairly neutral as KZ's go IMO and I find the ED9 brass having more detail and overall treble energy. The HDS1 for me can sound a bit flat coming from a ED9. I have the EDSE and the EDR2 and am still going back and forth but may prefer the EDSE which is lively and musical. The EDR2 can get a little ragged for me in the treble but I am still comparing the two and the EDR2 is relatively new with only a couple days burn-in. I actually prefer the ED3c over the EDR2 or EDSE. I couldn't get a correct fit with the ZS1 so I'm not able to use them. I have the ATE and it seems smooth and dark with rolled of highs but I keep it because it's musical and warm.
> This is coming from my Beresford Capella amp, Bushmaster MKII DAC, Samsung Blu-ray player and Audio Art cables while listening to CD's and most importantly these are my own personal opinions.


 
 I was not saying that they are very similar, but just from his current inventory I provided upgrade routes that will go well taking into consideration his preferred sound signature.


----------



## vegetaleb

Sorry to be repetitive but the memory wire is the only difference between ATE and ATE-S?


----------



## Podster

shawn71 said:


> And that picture wld'nt be sexy if it doest have the jds ultra short cable......




My bad, I went right out and ordered two from John when you suggested it to me Shawn

THX


----------



## CADCAM

martino416 said:


> I haven't followed this thread in a very long time since August - which are the best KZ right now?
> I have Ed9 , ATE , ED10. I really enjoy the ED9 sound - the ED10 is to bassy for me. I enjoy the ATE as well but I think ED9 sounds better.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 ED9 is one of my top favorite KZ's and I would say to try the ED3c which is the ED3 Acme youth. Good detail, nice bass and a bit smoother and refined than most at this price point IMO.


----------



## EISENbricher

It always pains me how ED8m was ignored by many because of its ergonomic issues (size and weight). They produce the most beautiful midbass texture added with nice touch of subbass. IMO they have very wide soundstage and airy highs. Mids are nice and clean. Isolation is very good too. Add to that tank-like durability as well.
  
 I have both Red and Blue ED8m, Blue sounds a bit deeper than the Red. Anybody ready to take the pill? This is a keeper : ) 
  
  
 Btw *we crossed 10k *guys!!! nobody noticed?


----------



## Ruben123

eisenbricher said:


> It always pains me how ED8m was ignored by many because of its ergonomic issues (size and weight). They produce the most beautiful midbass texture added with nice touch of subbass. IMO they have very wide soundstage and airy highs. Mids are nice and clean. Isolation is very good too. Add to that tank-like durability as well.
> 
> I have both Red and Blue ED8m, Blue sounds a bit deeper than the Red. Anybody ready to take the pill? This is a keeper : )
> 
> ...


 

 Lol most IEMs are too heavy for me, even the very light ones like EDR2. Big/heavy is a problem. ED8...? Wont even have to try


----------



## carltonh

eisenbricher said:


> It always pains me how ED8m was ignored by many because of its ergonomic issues (size and weight). They produce the most beautiful midbass texture added with nice touch of subbass. IMO they have very wide soundstage and airy highs. Mids are nice and clean. Isolation is very good too. Add to that tank-like durability as well.
> 
> I have both Red and Blue ED8m, Blue sounds a bit deeper than the Red. Anybody ready to take the pill? This is a keeper : )


 
 I also have the ED8. And I really like the sound, but it just feels odd in my ear. I keep thinking that I'll get around to trying it with over-ear guides, but I keep getting new IEMs to spend time with.


----------



## CADCAM

eisenbricher said:


> Btw *we crossed 10k *guys!!! nobody noticed?


 
 Awesome! I was suppose to be out of here weeks ago but I can't stay away...
  
 10K+ lets celebrate! popcorn for all~
  












......................................


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> Lol most IEMs are too heavy for me, even the very light ones like EDR2. Big/heavy is a problem. ED8...? Wont even have to try


 
 If you feel that EDR2 is heavy then ED8m is strictly a no lol. EDR2 feel light as a feather after using ED8m. 
  


carltonh said:


> I also have the ED8. And I really like the sound, but it just feels odd in my ear. I keep thinking that I'll get around to trying it with over-ear guides, but I keep getting new IEMs to spend time with.


 
 They go very well with ear guides, I also use them behind the ear. Even without ear guides they fit very well behind the ear fashion. YMMV though. Do some tip rolling as well. 
  
 When wore cable down the weight feels but behind the ear they are much comfortable, maybe due to up pull acting as counterweight.


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> Lol most IEMs are too heavy for me, even the very light ones like EDR2. Big/heavy is a problem. ED8...? Wont even have to try


 
 You have the HDS1 right?


----------



## mebaali

With over 100s of hours usage, my KZ R1, a less popular and old model from KZ (bought for mere 2 US$ few months back, thanks to the timely heads-up from @dbhai in this very thread ) provides me the best sub-bass rumble and mid-bass among 7 KZ IEMs that I have (BTW, I do not have latest ones such as Z series or older ED8 to compare this against them)
  
 Listening to Progressive house genre on these, simply fantabulous. Elevated mid-bass presence (which I had felt OOTB) has largely subsided (brain-in/burn in?) and now adds a superb touch to genres that need a bit of oomph when it comes to bass presence. Mids/vocals are pretty clean and crisp for both male/female. Treble may not be its forte but it does well handling most of the treble centric tracks without feeling dry/missing or overbearing. Last but not the least to me is how beautiful the soundstage  is on these, width is approximately (again just my ears) similar to and at times surpassing my older ATE silver version (original).
  
 R1 is my daily driver, sleep-time phones for the last few months and I am using mid sized wide bore silicone tips of Piston 2 on these.
  
 My audio setup is Fiio X1 with LO on Topping NX1 LG, audio tracks are combination of mp3s and m4as.


----------



## Shawn71

mebaali said:


> With over 100s of hours usage, my KZ R1, a less popular and old model from KZ (bought for mere 2 US$ few months back, thanks to the timely heads-up from @dbhai
> in this very thread ) provides me the best sub-bass rumble and mid-bass among 7 KZ IEMs that I have (BTW, I do not have latest ones such as Z series or older ED8 to compare this against them)
> 
> Listening to Progressive house genre on these, simply fantabulous. Elevated mid-bass presence (which I had felt OOTB) has largely subsided (brain-in/burn in?) and now adds a superb touch to genres that need a bit of oomph when it comes to bass presence. Mids/vocals are pretty clean and crisp for both male/female. Treble may not be its forte but it does well handling most of the treble centric tracks without feeling dry/missing or overbearing. Last but not the least to me is how beautiful the soundstage  is on these, width is approximately (again just my ears) similar to and at times surpassing my older ATE silver version (original).
> ...




You are not alone  ....this my 2nd fav next to ED9,fm KZ and true, these fit like a glove,just like my jlab J6,cx280,re-400 etc. Another bed timer to me too. The build,the supplied 3 pair blue tips were a huge surprise to me,after I spent some time initially listening to them for its asking price,coz its sound.such a wonderful package but not sure/wonder why KZ didnt set to production (why so v. limited),the quantity they manufacture just like their other models.


----------



## Ruben123

cadcam said:


> You have the HDS1 right?



Yep! The only iems that I can use for more than half an hour continuously.


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> With over 100s of hours usage, my KZ R1, a less popular and old model from KZ (bought for mere 2 US$ few months back, thanks to the timely heads-up from @dbhai in this very thread ) provides me the best sub-bass rumble and mid-bass among 7 KZ IEMs that I have (BTW, I do not have latest ones such as Z series or older ED8 to compare this against them)
> 
> Listening to Progressive house genre on these, simply fantabulous. Elevated mid-bass presence (which I had felt OOTB) has largely subsided (brain-in/burn in?) and now adds a superb touch to genres that need a bit of oomph when it comes to bass presence. Mids/vocals are pretty clean and crisp for both male/female. Treble may not be its forte but it does well handling most of the treble centric tracks without feeling dry/missing or overbearing. Last but not the least to me is how beautiful the soundstage  is on these, width is approximately (again just my ears) similar to and at times surpassing my older ATE silver version (original).
> 
> ...


 
 I love my R1 as well!!! Good nostalgia. Haven't used then since 2-3 months but now I have an urge to pull those out. Totally agree about  the sub bass. 
  
 From the KZ the 'Bass Trio' should be 
  
 KZ ED10 : Most fluid bass
 KZ ED8m : Most textured and punchy bass
 KZ R1 : Most rumbling sub bass 
  
 ZS1 should be included in as well, but I'm not able to determine their 'bass personality' as I did above. Maybe someone can help finding correct term.


----------



## mebaali

eisenbricher said:


> I love my R1 as well!!! Good nostalgia. Haven't used then since 2-3 months but now I have an urge to pull those out. Totally agree about  the sub bass.


 
 Good call, Eisen! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 While you are at it, do give a try at this chill-out/prog house beauty from #ATB


----------



## EISENbricher

mebaali said:


> Good call, Eisen!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great! Always liked ATB but didn't come across this one. Cool, soothing track : ) 
  
 Give it a listen to my favorites #Moonbeam as well. They have a very different feel to their music. 
  
 Hint : Use R1 for this


----------



## serman005

I am new to KZ. Can anyone recommend a KZ product for me at under $100? I don't like booming bass. Thanks!


----------



## j0p3Y

ZN1 mini, and then you keep some money in your pocket to experiment with other brands like the LZ-Z03A 
PS: is there a KZ that's OVER $100,-??


----------



## Podster

Well with $100 and shopped right you can basically buy half their collection
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Of course I'll always suggest my favorite first in the ED9 or if you like a little smoother sound the HDS1, ED3 ACME Youth is a good all-rounder. Of course as always these are my faves away from the bass heavy models but others will not be following far behind here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good luck in your quest sermandoubleot5


----------



## serman005

Thanks, guys!


----------



## CoiL

Been away some time from this thread (computer/internet issues). Did some backwards reading and going to comment little...
  
 Quote:


eisenbricher said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > @EISENbricher
> ...


 
 Wow, didn`t know that ATE FR graph is actually so "neutral". I know You mentioned -5dB calibration error @ 6kHz but it still shows pretty accurately that my hearing from around 6kHz gets very sensitive and that`s why I like ATE treble. 
 With stock foam tips it sounds muddy and too bassy though. But...


nhlean96 said:


> mellowship said:
> 
> 
> > I found the ATEs very tip-dependant. For the past week I used them with the silicone stock large tips and they where balanced for my taste. A little bit veiled at the mids, but not too much that it would take away the enjoyment. Been listening to classic lately and these do a fine job with micro and macro dynamics and detail.
> ...


 
 ... ATE needs perfect seal and very large bore silicone tips and tip edge must fit on level with nozzle edge/grill for deep insertion - getting that kind of good seal/fit makes ATE sound noticeably more clearer, detailed, airier, spacious, tighter and not so dark/warm IEM anymore. And that`s in stock configuration, FF-mod takes it another level up.
  


silentcinema said:


> A/b with edr2 and joyroom E107 both with around 2 hours worth of burn in time. Joyroom E107, immediate winner instruments separation is greater along with better soundstage airyness, listening to flac 24 bit Maroon 5-animals, i got lost in the track with the joyroom E107 (great instrument separation for price point) but with the Edr2 i felt the track sounded a bit crammed together making it sound as if some instruments were missing. Oh well just my opinion nevertheless erd2 is still a good budget earphone if u need a microphone and the build does seem stronger than the joyroom E107 and still definitely better than the hds3 imo.


 
 Why did You say it!? Now I probably have to buy Joyroom E107 instead EDR2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And HDS1 will probably be my last KZ IEM to buy.
  


mebaali said:


> With over 100s of hours usage, my KZ R1, a less popular and old model from KZ (bought for mere 2 US$ few months back, thanks to the timely heads-up from @dbhai in this very thread ) provides me the best sub-bass rumble and mid-bass among 7 KZ IEMs that I have (BTW, I do not have latest ones such as Z series or older ED8 to compare this against them)
> 
> Listening to Progressive house genre on these, simply fantabulous. Elevated mid-bass presence (which I had felt OOTB) has largely subsided (brain-in/burn in?) and now adds a superb touch to genres that need a bit of oomph when it comes to bass presence. Mids/vocals are pretty clean and crisp for both male/female. Treble may not be its forte but it does well handling most of the treble centric tracks without feeling dry/missing or overbearing. Last but not the least to me is how beautiful the soundstage  is on these, width is approximately (again just my ears) similar to and at times surpassing my older ATE silver version (original).
> 
> ...


 
 I like sub-bass rumble sometimes (without overpowering rest FR), maybe going to try them in future (as gift for kids). Thanks for bringing this IEM up on topic again.
  
 Btw, I have received VE Monks and they sound great (when I apply slight pressure on them for better fit/seal). According to what I hear and how much appreciation they have received - seems that I have done pretty amazing job with my WOM-mod
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OOTB latter sounds slightly better to my ears but got to "burn-in" Monks before making final judgement.


----------



## vapman

The ATE is pretty neutral, yup. It actually is awful similar tuning to the sony XB90EX.

I used to think Comply T500 wa best on ATE but now I won't use them without spiral dots.

Coil, it took me a few days to get used to putting in the monks right.


----------



## Podster

j0p3y said:


> ZN1 mini, and then you keep some money in your pocket to experiment with other brands like the LZ-Z03A
> PS: is there a KZ that's OVER $100,-??


 

 Did someone mention ZN1 the Garden Hose KZ edition
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







LOL


----------



## martino416

before I make my purchase can someone please compare and contrast ATE vs ZN1 Mini for me!


----------



## EISENbricher

martino416 said:


> before I make my purchase can someone please compare and contrast ATE vs ZN1 Mini for me!


 
 I'll not comment on fit / ergonomics because that's differs from person to person. 
  
 Sound wise ATE should be your choice if you are into vocal music, acoustic instruments and such. They have better mids than ZN1 mini. Both have almost similar treble, which is smooth and rolled off. Doesn't extend too far. In the bass section ZN1 mini would be more pleasing IMO. Also being Dual dynamic the soundstage definitely has different feel than the ATE. 
  
 To simplify things I'd advise that you make your choice based on music genres you are into. Like I said above any kind of vocal, acoustic, jazzy music would go well with ATE. ZN1 mini aces EDM, trance and Hip-hop. Both have unique qualities when it comes to Rock. ATE's smooth representation of guitar solos, vocals and ZN1 mini's representation of Kick drums and bass lines complement each other well.


----------



## vegetaleb

I have read mixed report about the ATES, some people said it's the exact same sound as ATE but other are saying it's too bassy and muddy.
 Who's right?
 I thought ATES meant ATE Sport
  
 It's too Quiet here!


----------



## Nafis

vegetaleb said:


> I have read mixed report about the ATES, some people said it's the exact same sound as ATE but other are saying it's too bassy and muddy.
> Who's right?
> I thought ATES meant ATE Sport
> 
> It's too Quiet here!


The 'S' stands for special. I don't have the S version to compare with the original but yeah as you mentioned people are saying it has got more bass.


----------



## EISENbricher

EDR2 gets my thumbs up. Very nicely extended, fresh sounding treble complemented very well by good amount of bass. IMO they are among the fullest sounding KZs. 
  
 In most KZs you may feel something is missing but EDR2 ticks most of the boxes right away, plus the fit and weight is ideal. The material used (Aluminium) makes it weigh very less and would be durable in long term. 
  
 Being a mild basshead I'm glad to find something that satisfies my needs as well as keeping a nice balanced FR in other parts of graph as well. 
  

  
 Worth noting that, while their SQ is definitely punches in KZ's top tier bunch, they cost less even for a KZ IEM. They are available starting $5 on AliExpress and about $7 on Gearbest. For the build quality and the sound, best VFM in IEM as per my opinion. 
  
 EDR2 owners, any word on sound? Do they deserve being in KZ's top crop?


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Worth noting that, while their SQ is definitely punches in KZ's top tier bunch, they cost less even for a KZ IEM. They are available starting $5 on AliExpress and about $7 on Gearbest. For the build quality and the sound, best VFM in IEM as per my opinion.
> 
> EDR2 owners, any word on sound? Do they deserve being in KZ's top crop?


 
  
 I'm glad you're happy with the EDR2 @EISENbricher!
  
 I think anyone who follows this thread knows my thoughts on the EDR2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They are pretty much top of the KZ heap in both build quality and sound quality imo. Only exception would be the ANV with minor filter modding to tame the treble, but those are discontinued and nearly impossible to find so they don't really count. There is one notable flaw with the EDR2, however. As much as I like KZ's cables the EDR2 would be better served with something less microphonic, like those cables found on their older iems; ANV, C56R, Micro Ring, etc. You can solve the issue wearing them cable over-ear, but not everyone likes that style.
  
 That said, I'm totally on board with these being the best VFM iem. They deserve to be right up there beside the VE Monk.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> I'm glad you're happy with the EDR2 @EISENbricher!
> 
> I think anyone who follows this thread knows my thoughts on the EDR2
> 
> ...


 
 Yup, your opinion certainly did play role in me deciding to order EDR2. 
  
 I like that cable though. Durable as heck and doesn't tangle much. Microphonics is a little issue because I always wear my earphones behind the ear whenever travelling.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Yup, your opinion certainly did play role in me deciding to order EDR2.
> 
> I like that cable though. Durable as heck and doesn't tangle much. Microphonics is a little issue because I always wear my earphones behind the ear whenever travelling.


 

 The more I read you guys the better I feel about my EDR2, can't wait for them to get here. Ordered the ACME at the same time, maybe my last two KZ's! Thought I ordered a third pair but it was Monks on that order


----------



## vegetaleb

nafis said:


> The 'S' stands for special. I don't have the S version to compare with the original but yeah as you mentioned people are saying it has got more bass.


 
  
 Thanks!
 So it's better to take a pair of ATE + ear hooks instead of the ATES?
 EDR2 is nice for sports or they fall off easily?


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Yup, your opinion certainly did play role in me deciding to order EDR2.
> 
> I like that cable though. Durable as heck and doesn't tangle much. Microphonics is a little issue because I always wear my earphones behind the ear whenever travelling.


 
 I like the cable too, just not as much on their aluminum bodied iems; ie. EDR2 and HDS1. The material seems to transmit notably more noise than on their other products. Microphonics can be a killer for me, such as on the Klipsch S3 which has scarred me for life, lol. The fact that they also sounded mediocre at best also didn't help. Luckily wearing the EDR2/HDS1 cable over ear nullifies nearly all noise, so woohoo! 
  
 Also, I'm finally warming up to the ZN1 Mini. UE600 tips fix most of my comfort issues so I can just lie back and enjoy the music. I still miss the ZS1's subbass but the ZN1's extra treble emphasis, detail, and refinement makes up for it.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I like the cable too, just not as much on their aluminum bodied iems; ie. EDR2 and HDS1. The material seems to transmit notably more noise than on their other products. Microphonics can be a killer for me, such as on the Klipsch S3 which has scarred me for life, lol. The fact that they also sounded mediocre at best also didn't help. Luckily wearing the EDR2/HDS1 cable over ear nullifies nearly all noise, so woohoo!
> 
> Also, I'm finally warming up to the ZN1 Mini. UE600 tips fix most of my comfort issues so I can just lie back and enjoy the music. I still miss the ZS1's subbass but the ZN1's extra treble emphasis, detail, and refinement makes up for it.




Nice, custom EQ can get you very close to S1 subbase, at least it does for me. Glad you found tips you like on them as well So ready to hear the EdR2 now


----------



## Nafis

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks!
> So it's better to take a pair of ATE + ear hooks instead of the ATES?
> EDR2 is nice for sports or they fall off easily?


If you don't want that extra bass then definitely go for the original ATE it does come with a pair of ear hooks. Unfortunately, I don't own the EDR2 so won't be able to say anything.


----------



## carltonh

Just thought I'd post an ordering of my IEMs since I have so many KZs. The ones on here without enough hours to necessarily be fixed are the EDR2, Tennmak Piano, and HCK UE Custom.
  

Sony AS800APPuro IEM500Sony XB90EXTennmak PianoLG Quadbeat 3Philips Fidelio S1HCK US Custom Dual DynamicYinjw Wooden V2KZ HDS3KZ EDR2VE MonkPhilips CitiscapeKZ ED10KZ ED8Sony MH1CXiaomi Piston 3KZ ZN1 MiniVsonic GR99Philips SHE9005JVC FHD40Jlab EpicKZ ATE-SVelesonic VPulseSony XB50EXLG Quadbeat 2Sol Republic RelayXiaomi Piston 2Philips SHE3575Sol Republic AMPKZ ED4Monoprice 8320JLab J5Jlab CoreJlab J6Brainwavz BetaBrainwavz AlphaJBudsJlab J4Jlab J2Philips SHE7005Fake Sony XB310


----------



## carltonh

That didn't transfer very well. Here is the list.
  

Sony AS800APPuro IEM500Sony XB90EXTennmak PianoLG Quadbeat 3Philips Fidelio S1HCK UE Custom Dual DynamicYinjw Wooden V2KZ HDS3KZ EDR2VE MonkPhilips CitiscapeKZ ED10KZ ED8Sony MH1CXiaomi Piston 3KZ ZN1 MiniVsonic GR99Philips SHE9005JVC FHD40Jlab EpicKZ ATE-SVelesonic VPulseSony XB50EXLG Quadbeat 2Sol Republic RelayXiaomi Piston 2Philips SHE3575Sol Republic AMPKZ ED4Monoprice 8320JLab J5Jlab CoreJlab J6Brainwavz BetaBrainwavz AlphaJBudsJlab J4Jlab J2Philips SHE7005Fake Sony XB310


----------



## gvekiaris

i am new to this forum
  
 i am interesting to buy KZ earphones especially for my android smartphone
  
 i am between ED9 , ED10 , ATE , ATE S and HDS3 
  
 my budget is around  10 USD
  
 for me the most important thing is the quality of* microphone* ...  
 because i have problem i want the other people to hear me clear and loud during a phone conversation
  
 PLEASE propose me


----------



## Nafis

gvekiaris said:


> i am new to this forum
> 
> i am interesting to buy KZ earphones especially for my android smartphone
> 
> ...


A very warm welcome to the KZ thread. I don't own any KZ IEM with Mic so won't be able to say anything about their quality. I am sure other members will help you out.


----------



## vegetaleb

I wonder what is best for PsyTrance music, I think not a ZS1 ultra bass that will be overkill nor a weak bass, something with a subtle good amount of bass, wide soundstage as it's a music that got many simultaneous instruments playing, and good mids and treble. Actually playing He.Art by Astrix for example.
 Which KZ would be best?
 I am using my HTC A9 as player, it's most probably the best audio smartphone ever, the power output it can give is fantastic on 3.5mm, even my hifiman 32ohm are pretty well driven. Though the only thing is that the ''Boomsound'' feature is boosting bass so imagine an already boosted ZS1 + boomsound...your ears will think you got a subwoofer stick into them


----------



## gvekiaris

thanks you anyway..
  
 i hope other people to help me soon.....


----------



## gvekiaris

nafis said:


> A very warm welcome to the KZ thread. I don't own any KZ IEM with Mic so won't be able to say anything about their quality. I am sure other members will help you out.


 
 thanks you anyway..
  
 i hope other people to help me soon.....


----------



## EISENbricher

gvekiaris said:


> i am new to this forum
> 
> i am interesting to buy KZ earphones especially for my android smartphone
> 
> ...



All KZ mics that I have are good, person at the other end is always able to listen to me clearly so don't be much concerned about mic issue. 

I'd recommend to make your choice according to sound and fit. ATE and ED9 are loved by the most, ED10 is super good for bass enthusiasts. HDS3 may be a mixed bag. I've seen too many QC issues about it lately. Even 2 of my 3 HDS3 pairs are faulty. Go for HDS1 because it'll offer more balanced sound in same form factor and it's QC is good.


----------



## gvekiaris

eisenbricher said:


> All KZ mics that I have are good, person at the other end is always able to listen to me clearly so don't be much concerned about mic issue.
> 
> I'd recommend to make your choice according to sound and fit. ATE and ED9 are loved by the most, ED10 is super good for bass enthusiasts. HDS3 may be a mixed bag. I've seen too many QC issues about it lately. Even 2 of my 3 HDS3 pairs are faulty. Go for HDS1 because it'll offer more balanced sound in same form factor and it's QC is good.


 
 thanks 
  
 so the MIC chip is the same for ALL KZ earphones ?
  
 because in some specifications says about HD calls in MIC
  
 what to choose???  
  
 i am between ATE and ED9. what to choose in terms of MICROPHONE quality???


----------



## EISENbricher

gvekiaris said:


> thanks
> 
> so the MIC chip is the same for ALL KZ earphones ?
> 
> ...


 
 Can't say. Let me ask a reverse question though.. why are you comparing mic quality in $10 price bracket? Do you have some specific use in mind?


----------



## vegetaleb

eisenbricher said:


> Can't say. Let me ask a reverse question though.. why are you comparing mic quality in $10 price bracket? Do you have some specific use in mind?


 
  
 I too need a mic, but more for the button control than for talking, changing tracks without taking the phone out of the pocket while doing sports is a big advantage


----------



## EISENbricher

Well, I only have 3 KZs with microphone, as I usually prefer to order those without mics, for better compatibility and slightly increased durability.
  
 Here are the samples that I recorded, the source, mic position and distance was kept exactly same. You'll get idea how they face against each other. 
  
 EDR2 : http://vocaroo.com/i/s1k534ZS3UxV
 HDS1 : http://vocaroo.com/i/s16tDOwmsMMi
 HDS3 : http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JN1bImzSLl
  
 EDIT : I forgot to amplify the files. By default my phone's recorder application records at low volume.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Well, I only have 3 KZs with microphone, as I usually prefer to order those without mics, for better compatibility and slightly increased durability.
> 
> Here are the samples that I recorded, the source, mic position and distance was kept exactly same. You'll get idea how they face against each other.
> 
> ...


 
 That's pretty helpful! Nice uploads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 HDS1 mic sounded pretty bad, lol. EDR2 sounded surprisingly good.


----------



## gvekiaris

eisenbricher said:


> Can't say. Let me ask a reverse question though.. why are you comparing mic quality in $10 price bracket? Do you have some specific use in mind?


 
 My only use for the microphone is phone calls... 
 I want high performance for my voice tranferrring to other people clearly and loudly... 
 So what is the best solution for KZ earphones?


----------



## gvekiaris

b9scrambler said:


> That's pretty helpful! Nice uploads
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 EDR2  has better microphone performance than HDS1 and HDS3
  
 But is better than ED9 and ATE too?


----------



## B9Scrambler

gvekiaris said:


> EDR2  has better microphone performance than HDS1 and HDS3
> 
> But is* better than ED9 and ATE too*?


 
  
 I would like to know as well. Only KZ's with a mic I own are the HDS3, ED4, and ED10.


----------



## gvekiaris

b9scrambler said:


> I would like to know as well. Only KZ's with a mic I own are the HDS3, ED4, and ED10.


 
 How about ED4 and ED10 you have? 
 Which is the better in terms of call and sound quality during a phone call? 
 Can you make a try?


----------



## EISENbricher

If anybody wants to assess mic performance here's my tip for Android devices. Download ASR audio recorder and select WAV as recording format. Grab your best speaker and place mic facing towards it, at about 1 ft distance. Select same audio clip, don't change volume and record with variety of mics that you have.


----------



## j0p3Y

Anyone know if the KZ ZN1 mini is prone to driver flex? Already when I put the earpieces in, I experience severe driver flex in the right earpiece. My **** UE does have this problem in a minor way. I expect it has something to do with the large housing of both models. The housing makes more room for airflow, hence driver flex. 
For this specific one I just sent a mail to seller KZ Flagship store He Yue


----------



## B9Scrambler

j0p3y said:


> Anyone know if the KZ ZN1 mini is prone to driver flex? Already when I put the earpieces in, I experience severe driver flex in the right earpiece. My **** UE does have this problem in a minor way. I expect it has something to do with the large housing of both models. The housing makes more room for airflow, hence driver flex.
> For this specific one I just sent a mail to seller KZ Flagship store He Yue


 
  
 Both sides of my ZN1 Mini have flex. Minor though. Just a wee crinkle upon first insertion.
  


gvekiaris said:


> How about ED4 and ED10 you have?
> Which is the better in terms of call and sound quality during a phone call?
> Can you make a try?


 
  
 I'll give @EISENbricher's method a try later and see how things turn out.


----------



## EISENbricher

j0p3y said:


> Anyone know if the KZ ZN1 mini is prone to driver flex? Already when I put the earpieces in, I experience severe driver flex in the right earpiece. My **** UE does have this problem in a minor way. I expect it has something to do with the large housing of both models. The housing makes more room for airflow, hence driver flex.
> For this specific one I just sent a mail to seller KZ Flagship store He Yue


 
 My ZN1 mini don't exhibit any driver flex at all.


----------



## Pulpfiction

One side of the ATE I used had driver flex (I think right side), ZN1 Mini has driver flex on the right side pretty much every time I put it in, and SOMEtimes the left side too.. Not sure what causes it or if it's minor or serious. I had one time after driver flex where I felt like I was missing most of the mid and high frequencies so I suspect one of the drivers ending up in a wrong position, but that really is just supposition (could have been something with my sinusses or ears or smth, not sure). Anyway, usually it's fine despite the flex, with ATE I never noticed poorer sound as a result. I do wonder if it doesn't cause damage or speeds up degradation of the driver over a longer period of time though, I imagine so but lack the experience / technical knowledge to really say.
  
 That out of the way, I'm excited! My 2 pairs of EDR2 with mic should be arriving any minute now as well as my 5 pairs of Monks, both have been cleared by customs here in Brazil and are on their way (without customs charges, I got pretty lucky there  ). I'm eager to try the EDR2, to see if I'll prefer it over ZN1 Mini for my electronic music outdoors-IEM. I keep grabbing my Monks if I am not really in need of isolation or craving BASS for most genres, because that *sound* yo... I don't mind losing a bit (gets better with adapting to them over time) of comfort for *that SOUND*! . I have love for KZ too though, great value combined with nice build quality (in my experiences with em so far).
  
 Bring on them EDR2's ! I'll share my experiences with em ofc, what are your guys' experience with them regarding burn-in? Did you notice any changes, and if so: how many hours did you put on them?


----------



## To.M

I have Monks and since yesterday I've been a proud owner of KZ EDR2  the first impressions are positive, after burning in during the night today I've listened to them outside and it looks like I will NOT throw them to the bottom of my drawer


----------



## Podster

gvekiaris said:


> i am new to this forum
> 
> i am interesting to buy KZ earphones especially for my android smartphone
> 
> ...


glad to have you stop by gvek, I only have the mic version on ED9 and ED10 but both have a good mic. The 10 never was comfrtable in my ear so I have used the 9 much more. I keep a mic pair in my car for when I'm out and about. You'll get a lot more feedback in here though. Good luck


----------



## ganglionic

Hi, I would love a recommendation. 
I'm looking for an IEM below $30, that's as analytical and with as much as possible, a touch of bass (or none) and good isolation. I want something that will give me music as close to the producers intended and I want to hear the detail that I couldn't hear in typical lower tier IEMs. They should also be preferably durable because I want to workout in them (hence the need for isolation as well). I have the seinheisers cx300ii and they sound kind of muddy to me. I had the Panasonic Ergo Fit RP-HJE123-Y but they sounded terrible to me. I also have the Superlux HD668B and they are pretty close to perfect except for the painful highs and overbearing brightness. I'm not sure if it's because I didn't like the treble? They sounded better when I EQed them with reduced treble. My Monoprice 8320 just died on me and I really enjoyed it. I hope to look for an upgrade from it or at least something of the same level.
Anyway I've been reading this thread and heard good things. I'm also considering Vsonic Vc02 but the brain-implant deep insertion is putting me off (it costs $30 where I am). Any suggestions besides Kz IEMs are welcome. Thanks.


----------



## EISENbricher

to.m said:


> I have Monks and since yesterday I've been a proud owner of KZ EDR2  first impressions are positive, after burning in during the night today I've listened to them outside and it looks like I will throw them to the bottom of my drawer


 
 Throw what?


----------



## Pulpfiction

Second that: I wanna know too! Which one will you be throwing to the bottom of the drawer, and why ??


----------



## Podster

pulpfiction said:


> Second that: I wanna know too! Which one will you be throwing to the bottom of the drawer, and why ??




I third that and I don't even have mine yet! This sounds to be a job for the right tip


----------



## To.M

sorry guys, I was too quick to type and forgot about NOT and as short as it is, the lack of this word can make unnecessary commotion  KZ EDR2 are good enuff to stay in my ears, I guess they will be my outdoor IEMs, well in a few days I will have KZ ATE so the competition will only get tougher


----------



## Ruben123

ganglionic said:


> Hi, I would love a recommendation.
> I'm looking for an IEM below $30, that's as analytical and with as much as possible, a touch of bass (or none) and good isolation. I want something that will give me music as close to the producers intended and I want to hear the detail that I couldn't hear in typical lower tier IEMs. They should also be preferably durable because I want to workout in them (hence the need for isolation as well). I have the seinheisers cx300ii and they sound kind of muddy to me. I had the Panasonic Ergo Fit RP-HJE123-Y but they sounded terrible to me. I also have the Superlux HD668B and they are pretty close to perfect except for the painful highs and overbearing brightness. I'm not sure if it's because I didn't like the treble? They sounded better when I EQed them with reduced treble. My Monoprice 8320 just died on me and I really enjoyed it. I hope to look for an upgrade from it or at least something of the same level.
> Anyway I've been reading this thread and heard good things. I'm also considering Vsonic Vc02 but the brain-implant deep insertion is putting me off (it costs $30 where I am). Any suggestions besides Kz IEMs are welcome. Thanks.




Ostry kc06 is as close as you can get. Otherwise kz hds1 is one I really enjoy.


----------



## ganglionic

ruben123 said:


> Ostry kc06 is as close as you can get. Otherwise kz hds1 is one I really enjoy.




Since Kz hds3 is a newer version should I get that instead? Do they sound different?
What about Kz e9 erd2 s4 and e10? Is the hds on par with them or better than them in terms of accuracy/detail? 
I forgot to mention that I mainly listen to pop songs (Demi lovato, Cher Lloyd, little mix, etc) and lectures, I also watch movies a lot. 

Also which Kz iem has the best isolation?


----------



## Ruben123

ganglionic said:


> Since Kz hds3 is a newer version should I get that instead? Do they sound different?
> What about Kz e9 erd2 s4 and e10? Is the hds on par with them or better than them in terms of accuracy/detail?
> I forgot to mention that I mainly listen to pop songs (Demi lovato, Cher Lloyd, little mix, etc) and lectures, I also watch movies a lot.
> 
> Also which Kz iem has the best isolation?




Hds1 seems to be better, if only for its quality control. Ed9 is also lovely, brighter than hds1 but natural on its own way of sounding too.


----------



## vegetaleb

Ok!
 Who's the cool guy who will give us an ATE-S review?


----------



## vapman

I've reviewed them. My plan is to throw them away probably.


----------



## vegetaleb

They are so bad? I so wanted the memory cable for sports sake


----------



## vapman

Bloated muddy bass. I like the ate far more.

Maybe they are ok with just a smartphone but I always amp and I am a basshead. I wanted to like them but they were inferior to the ate. They sound like a silver ate with an unnatural mid bass hump that is unbalanced and boomy in a bad way when amped.


----------



## vegetaleb

Do you think the zs1/2 are a better choice?


----------



## gvekiaris

to.m said:


> sorry guys, I was too quick to type and forgot about NOT and as short as it is, the lack of this word can make unnecessary commotion  KZ EDR2 are good enuff to stay in my ears, I guess they will be my outdoor IEMs, well in a few days I will have KZ ATE so the competition will only get tougher


 
 So EDR2 is best solution for microphone use with a smartphone..  Right? 
  
 What about ED9 and ATE....?
  
 I want to buy one of the three ( EDR2,  ED9 and ATE) 
  
 give me a hint... 
  
 I want to use them with my MEIZU smartphone 
  
 I want clear and loud quality in my ears and in the microphone quality...


----------



## Gussisaurio

Hi everyone, it seems I am a little late for the KZ party (just getting in).
 I've been reading a lot about KZ IEM on this thread, but it's 10,000 posts long and still haven't catch up yet (currently am on page 207, and it will take me a couple weeks to catch up).
 After reading about many KZ models like R1, R3, DT3, ANV, CKW, CM9, I tried to purchase them on AliExpress, but most of them are all sold out, long ago, sadly. 
  
 Just a few of them are still out there, but at very high prices. My question is:
  
 If you were me, would you consider buying the following models at the following prices?
  
 1. KZ ANV at USD$27.50?
  
 2. KZ C1 at USD$18?
  
 3. KZ CKW Pro at USD$45?
  
 4. KZ CM9 at USD$16?
  
 You talked a lot of good things of all those models, but a year ago, when their prices were less than USD$10.
  
 Would you still buy those models at their current price?
  
 Thank you very much for your answers.


----------



## CADCAM

gussisaurio said:


> Hi everyone, it seems I am a little late for the KZ party (just getting in).
> I've been reading a lot about KZ IEM on this thread, but it's 10,000 posts long and still haven't catch up yet (currently am on page 207, and it will take me a couple weeks to catch up).
> After reading about many KZ models like R1, R3, DT3, ANV, CKW, CM9, I tried to purchase them on AliExpress, but most of them are all sold out, long ago, sadly.
> 
> ...


 

 I would say no...buy the ED3c and listen to it for awhile. I have heard the anv is good and I can say with experience the CM9 is not. I have many KZ's and my advice would be go with the ED3c.
 Then as you read you could pick up a few more.


----------



## rmatech

vegetaleb said:


> Do you think the zs1/2 are a better choice?




Also would like to know


----------



## Gussisaurio

cadcam said:


> I would say no...buy the ED3c and listen to it for awhile. I have heard the anv is good and I can say with experience the CM9 is not. I have many KZ's and my advice would be go with the ED3c.
> Then as you read you could pick up a few more.


 
  
 Hi CADCAM, thank you very much for answering my question.
 I will definitely buy the ED3c as you recommend, it was not yet on my radar (haven't catch up yet on this thread).
 I actually have a couple KZ models already:
  
 1. ATE (my favorite)
 2. ED10
 3. ED2 (with red filters, is that a real ED2 or they sold me a ED Special Edition?)
 4. ED9
 5. RXs (with blue cable)
  
 And on order I have the following:
  
 1. C56R
 2. DT5
 3. ED1
 4. ED3
 5. ED8M (blue)
 6. ES (but probably the seller will tell me tomorrow it is out of stock, sadly)
 7. GR (probably without holes on the filters)
 8. HDS3
 9. RX (black)
  
 As you can see, I am assembling a KZ collection, but my wallet is famelic, and I am a bit obsessive.
 I desperately tried to buy the DT3 last night, there were three remaining seller on AliExpress who were advertising it. I bought them, one by one, and in each case, a couple hours later the seller told me they were out of stock. Now there is not a single one remaining, which turns me even more sad and anxious, because the stock for all the models I ask for are also available at high prices and from a single seller. 
 Therefore, are you sure not a single one of the following models is worth getting (sound quality wise)? Are all of them forgettable at current prices?
  
 1. KZ ANV at USD$27.50?
 2. KZ C1 at USD$18?
 3. KZ CKW Pro at USD$45?
 4. KZ CM9 at USD$16?
  
 Thank you very much.


----------



## CADCAM

gussisaurio said:


> Hi CADCAM, thank you very much for answering my question.
> I will definitely buy the ED3c as you recommend, it was not yet on my radar (haven't catch up yet on this thread).
> I actually have a couple KZ models already:
> 
> ...


 

 The only one that stands out for me is ANV...I've heard its good but haven't personally owned it.


----------



## gvekiaris

Sorry guys if I repeat the same issue... 
  
 I want to buy a KZ earphone for use for as a handsfree solution for call conversation in my MEIZU smartphone
  
 I want clear and loud quality in my ears and in the MICROPHONE use..  I see HD calls characteristic.  
  
 I am between EDR2,  ED9 and ATE.... or something else 
  
 Tell me what you should suggest me..


----------



## Gussisaurio

cadcam said:


> The only one that stands out for me is ANV...I've heard its good but haven't personally owned it.


 

 OK, thank you very much CADCAM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hey guys. Does any one who own the ANV would buy it again at USD$27.50?
  
 Or it is not worth it at that price level?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Gussisaurio

gvekiaris said:


> Sorry guys if I repeat the same issue...
> 
> I want to buy a KZ earphone for use for as a handsfree solution for call conversation in my MEIZU smartphone
> 
> ...


 

 Hi gvekiaris. I have the ED2, ED9 and ATE; all with mics and use them with an iPhone.
 1. The ED2 (similar to EDR2) is very light, and easy to put on.
 2. The ED9 is very heavy, so it will probably fall off a couple times until you find a good coupling, and get used to it. They fall off a few times when I take them for a walk to talk on the phone.
 3. The ATE is my personal favourite among the three, but it is a little cumbersome to put on, would be hard to put in on when trying to answer a call in a hurry. It has happened to me before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sadly, I haven't asked the people I talk to on the phone whether they hear me with good quality or not. They don't complain, either.
  
 Therefore, If you ask me, I would go for the ED2 among the three. That would be the EDR2 in your case, just for the ease of using.


----------



## seanwee

I can't decide between which kz to get, there are soon many!!!!! 

Without considering price, which one is best in sq?


----------



## vapman

I've heard a few but I own a few of the ATE and I love them. They're super balanced.


----------



## seanwee

Any difference between the ATE and the ATE S?


----------



## Ruben123

gussisaurio said:


> OK, thank you very much CADCAM.
> 
> Hey guys. Does any one who own the ANV would buy it again at USD$27.50?
> 
> ...




At that price is CERTAINLY get an ostry kc06. Much better and should be around $30 too.


----------



## Shawn71

ruben123 said:


> At that price is CERTAINLY get an ostry kc06. Much better and should be around $30 too.




You mean br new one or used kc06? Share it pls if that price for a new pair........


----------



## AsheshM

cadcam said:


> I would say no...buy the ED3c and listen to it for awhile. I have heard the anv is good and I can say with experience the CM9 is not. I have many KZ's and my advice would be go with the ED3c.
> Then as you read you could pick up a few more.


 

 What is the difference between ED3 and ED3c? I mean a small comparision of the sound. I recently bought ED3 and the right earphone is gone within a couple of weeks.


----------



## EISENbricher

gussisaurio said:


> Would you still buy those models at their current price?
> 
> Thank you very much for your answers.


 
 I wouldn't if I'm looking for the sound, since KZ has all tidbits covered up with its recent lineup. But I would if I'm a collector and want to collect all KZ. 
  


gvekiaris said:


> So EDR2 is best solution for microphone use with a smartphone..  Right?
> 
> What about ED9 and ATE....?
> 
> ...


 
 My vote goes to EDR2. Very good sound and ED9 as well as ATE need a little bit of amplification, if driven from source like phone to show their full potential. EDR2 would be good choice. It has nice isolation as well. 
  
  


ganglionic said:


> Since Kz hds3 is a newer version should I get that instead? Do they sound different?
> What about Kz e9 erd2 s4 and e10? Is the hds on par with them or better than them in terms of accuracy/detail?
> I forgot to mention that I mainly listen to pop songs (Demi lovato, Cher Lloyd, little mix, etc) and lectures, I also watch movies a lot.
> 
> Also which Kz iem has the best isolation?


 
 Among all KZ if you ask ED8m has been the best isolating earphone for me. 
  
 HDS3 has slightly more V-shaped sound than HDS1. Btw go for HDS1 as there are some quality control issues concerning HDS3. Many people have received imbalanced units. You wouldn't want that, right? 
  
 Go for EDR2 or HDS1. Both offer fairly balanced sound, they are very light weight to wear. EDR2 offers a little more bass slam than HDS1 and is more islating.


----------



## Nafis

gvekiaris said:


> i am new to this forum
> 
> i am interesting to buy KZ earphones especially for my android smartphone
> 
> ...


Hey Eisen can you do A/B between ATE and EDR2?


----------



## EISENbricher

nafis said:


> Hey Eisen can you do A/B between ATE and EDR2?


 
 Okay, I'll find out and post it later today.


----------



## vegetaleb

Since I saw this video with the guy showing how easy it's for ATE to fall off the ears, I thought about getting the ATE-S version but Vapman said they were bad, I use a phone as music player but the HTC A9 has its own DAC AMP which is powerful enough to be like a fiio.
 So if I want to get a KZ earphones for sports that wont fall off the ears easily, which one should I get?
 Are ZS1/2 too bassy for Trance and Psytrance? Any other model that can fit well and doesn't fall off?


----------



## Nafis

eisenbricher said:


> Okay, I'll find out and post it later today.


 Thanks buddy.


----------



## EISENbricher

vegetaleb said:


> Since I saw this video with the guy showing how easy it's for ATE to fall off the ears, I thought about getting the ATE-S version but Vapman said they were bad, I use a phone as music player but the HTC A9 has its own DAC AMP which is powerful enough to be like a fiio.
> So if I want to get a KZ earphones for sports that wont fall off the ears easily, which one should I get?
> Are ZS1/2 too bassy for Trance and Psytrance? Any other model that can fit well and doesn't fall off?



My advice since I've been reading your posts in multiple threads since past few days. You have to compromise something if your budget is below $20. 

Also pls don't judge the fit from a single personal opinion. ATE with the ear guide offers very good fit. Lot of sellers provide free ear guide with ATE. I was literally laughing when the dude in that vid showed how ATE fells off. Headbanging like that would throw out even a $1500 CIEM.

Just buy both and sell off the one you didn't like. I've been telling this to all budget conscious users.


----------



## vegetaleb

eisenbricher said:


> My advice since I've been reading your posts in multiple threads since past few days. You have to compromise something if your budget is below $20.
> 
> Also pls don't judge the fit from a single personal opinion. ATE with the ear guide offers very good fit. Lot of sellers provide free ear guide with ATE. I was literally laughing when the dude in that vid showed how ATE fells off. Headbanging like that would throw out even a $1500 CIEM.
> 
> Just buy both and sell off the one you didn't like. I've been telling this to all budget conscious users.


 
  
 Thanks mate!
 Did you got the ZS1 so you can compare it with your beloved Z1N mini?
 Any preferred seller on AE? (speed and service given)


----------



## CADCAM

asheshm said:


> What is the difference between ED3 and ED3c? I mean a small comparision of the sound. I recently bought ED3 and the right earphone is gone within a couple of weeks.


 

 I also had both but gave away the ED3 Perfection...IMO the ED3c (Acme youth) had better sq and was a bit lighter in weight. The failure point on all iem's will usually be the connection points. If your careful they should last. I'm super careful with all my hp's and have never had a channel go out on except once...probably shouldn't have said that as I just jinxed myself.


----------



## AsheshM

cadcam said:


> I also had both but gave away the ED3 Perfection...IMO the ED3c (Acme youth) had better sq and was a bit lighter in weight. The failure point on all iem's will usually be the connection points. If your careful they should last. I'm super careful with all my hp's and have never had a channel go out on except once...probably shouldn't have said that as I just jinxed myself.


 

 both are different?? Could you please share the two links? I pinged someone named WU in HIFI store few days back. He said he is looking into the issue. Not sure what he means.


----------



## EISENbricher

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks mate!
> Did you got the ZS1 so you can compare it with your beloved Z1N mini?
> Any preferred seller on AE? (speed and service given)


 
 Yeah I've already compared ZS1 with ZN1 mini in this thread a few times. 
  
 ZS1 has massive bass compared to ZN1 mini. ZN1 mini still has above average quantity of bass in absolute terms, Both earphones respond very well to the eq and can be adjusted to sound much similar. 
  
 Other difference is obvious and that's memory wire. I don't like that wire personally but lot people do.
  
 These both stores are legit and good : 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387?spm=2114.10010108.100005.1.Od5NCm


----------



## Gussisaurio

ruben123 said:


> At that price is CERTAINLY get an ostry kc06. Much better and should be around $30 too.


 

 Thank you very much Ruben123, I'll do some research on that model (ostry kc06), didn't knew it, though it is USD$48 on AliExpress.


----------



## Ruben123

gussisaurio said:


> Thank you very much Ruben123, I'll do some research on that model (ostry kc06), didn't knew it, though it is USD$48 on AliExpress.


 
 Oh wow, last time I saw it, it was around 30 dollars!! At that price everyone should get the Havi B3 Pro 1s (which Ive seen as low as 42 dollars few weeks back). The KZ HDS1 which you could find sometimes around 5-6 dollars on eBay is a better one then (price/performance wise).


----------



## Gussisaurio

eisenbricher said:


> I wouldn't if I'm looking for the sound, since KZ has all tidbits covered up with its recent lineup. But I would if I'm a collector and want to collect all KZ.


 

 Thank you very much EISENbricher.
 I see your point. But actually it most definitely won't be a complete collection, since I am very late to the KZ party, and most of the old models are totally gone (out of stock). But as I am reading on this thread, most of those models characteristics are already being covered by new models. So I am now thinking on sticking to the new ones (my wallet will thank me). Thanks!!


----------



## Ruben123

gussisaurio said:


> Thank you very much EISENbricher.
> I see your point. But actually it most definitely won't be a complete collection, since I am very late to the KZ party, and most of the old models are totally gone (out of stock). But as I am reading on this thread, most of those models characteristics are already being covered by new models. So I am now thinking on sticking to the new ones (my wallet will thank me). Thanks!!


 

 That's a smart move, because there is no use in having 10+ average earphones when you can have also 2 good earphones and 2 average ones. 10 KZs (at 10$ each) can get you 2 KZs + a Havi B3P1 ($50) and wel some other good one, look at the Asian thread lol


----------



## Gussisaurio

ruben123 said:


> Oh wow, last time I saw it, it was around 30 dollars!! At that price everyone should get the Havi B3 Pro 1s (which Ive seen as low as 42 dollars few weeks back). The KZ HDS1 which you could find sometimes around 5-6 dollars on eBay is a better one then (price/performance wise).


 

 Ok, I just ordered it after your recommendation, USD $6.37. I'll tell you how do I like it in a couple months. Thanks!


----------



## Ruben123

gussisaurio said:


> Ok, I just ordered it after your recommendation, USD $6.37. I'll tell you how do I like it in a couple months. Thanks!


 
 Great price, havent seen it much cheaper. I like its weight (or the lack thereof), size (same story) and of course its warm-neutral sound. While is does have some mid bass, it doesnt seem to ruin the music and the mids are really great.


----------



## Gussisaurio

ruben123 said:


> That's a smart move, because there is no use in having 10+ average earphones when you can have also 2 good earphones and 2 average ones. 10 KZs (at 10$ each) can get you 2 KZs + a Havi B3P1 ($50) and wel some other good one, look at the Asian thread lol


 

 OK, I agree. Sadly, Havi B3 is not easy to come by in my country (Mexico), it's on my list for the next time I travel abroad. And as for the Asian Thread, I want to finish first with the KZ one (am not even at the half yet), then I'll go to the Asian one. Thanks.


----------



## Shadowsora

Long time no visit(due to the capital controls in Greece I took a long break from KZ).
 My ate Just died so I was wondering(It was my favorite from, EDSE/ED3/ED9), should I go for ATE again or try ZN1 mini?


----------



## serman005

shadowsora said:


> Long time no visit(due to the capital controls in Greece I took a long break from KZ).
> My ate Just died so I was wondering(It was my favorite from, EDSE/ED3/ED9), should I go for ATE again or try ZN1 mini?


 
 I am familiar with the ED9 but not the others. Where can I get information about the others you listed? Is there someplace other than this thread?


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Long time no visit(due to the capital controls in Greece I took a long break from KZ).
> My ate Just died so I was wondering(It was my favorite from, EDSE/ED3/ED9), should I go for ATE again or try ZN1 mini?


 
 Hi bro : ) 
  
 Did you manage to order any new KZ? Or still you are facing the payment issues?


----------



## EISENbricher

serman005 said:


> I am familiar with the ED9 but not the others. Where can I get information about the others you listed? Is there someplace other than this thread?


 
 KZ ATE : http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-ate-copper-driver-ear-hook-hifi-in-ear-earphone-sport-headphones-for-running-with-foam-eartips-with-microphone-blackwith-mic
  
 HDS1 : http://www.head-fi.org/products/binmer-tm-kz-hds1-mini-metal-diy-headset-hd-dynamic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver
  
 ED3c : http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-ed3c-vigorous-bass-stereo-music-in-ear-monitor-headphones-earbud-with-microphone-red
  
 ZS1 : http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-dual-driver-extra-bass-wide-sound-field-sport-in-ear-monitors-headphones-with-microphone
  
 About EDSE, you now have its improved brother, the EDR2. Same design with build quality improvements and improved SQ as well.


----------



## Shadowsora

Stil


eisenbricher said:


> Hi bro : )
> 
> Did you manage to order any new KZ? Or still you are facing the payment issues?


 
 Hey Eisen 
 Unfortunately I am still facing some problems, there are some alternatives(mostly tricks) to bypass the restrictions.
 I'll give it a shot and hope for the best.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Stil
> Hey Eisen
> Unfortunately I am still facing some problems, there are some alternatives(mostly tricks) to bypass the restrictions.
> I'll give it a shot and hope for the best.



Shoot me a pm I may help u.


----------



## Shadowsora

Are ZN1(mini?) and ATE similar in terms of sound signature?


----------



## Gussisaurio

shadowsora said:


> Are ZN1(mini?) and ATE similar in terms of sound signature?


 

 Hi. Do you know if ZN1 (mini) needs amplifier? Thanks.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Are ZN1(mini?) and ATE similar in terms of sound signature?


 
 Both sound a bit dark and have smooth sound signature overall. Mids are better on ATE while bass is better on ZN1 mini. Soundstage IMO is wider on ZN1 mini. 
 Aside from that ZN1 mini are very easy to drive.
  


gussisaurio said:


> Hi. Do you know if ZN1 (mini) needs amplifier? Thanks.


 
 Not at all. They are most sensitive KZ along with ED10/11. For example I get the same intensity of sound on 13 ticks of volume of my Xduoo X2 on ZN1 mini whereas I need  >20 on most others.


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> Both sound a bit dark and have smooth sound signature overall. Mids are better on ATE while bass is better on ZN1 mini. Soundstage IMO is wider on ZN1 mini.
> Aside from that ZN1 mini are very easy to drive.


 
 Oh, you answered here first.
  
 While I am a fan of MIDs (due to Jrock, Female vocals, Vocals in general) I think this time I'll go with ZN1 minis, Haven't got a single dual driver IEM so they are extremely attractive.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Oh, you answered here first.
> 
> While I am a fan of MIDs (due to Jrock, Female vocals, Vocals in general) I think this time I'll go with ZN1 minis, Haven't got a single dual driver IEM so they are extremely attractive.


 
 Your choice. The durability on ZN1 minis are top notch as per my observation and they look much more premium than ATE, especially the silver ones. ATE has another issue that you might have noticed, the earpiece cable joint. Its sharp metallic edge would tear into the cable eventually. 
  
 Anyway it's your choice. ZN1 mini for slightly better bass, slightly recessed mids, bigger soundstage, better build quality and dual driver.


----------



## gvekiaris

eisenbricher said:


> Your choice. The durability on ZN1 minis are top notch as per my observation and they look much more premium than ATE, especially the silver ones. ATE has another issue that you might have noticed, the earpiece cable joint. Its sharp metallic edge would tear into the cable eventually.
> 
> Anyway it's your choice. ZN1 mini for slightly better bass, slightly recessed mids, bigger soundstage, better build quality and dual driver.


 
 ZN1 mini is suitable for my mobile Android smartphone? 
  
 Is better than EDR2,  ED9 and ATE in terms of ear quality and MICROPHONE PERFORMANCE? 
  
 I want to buy one of them EDR2, HDS1,  HDS2,  ED9 and ATE.... 
  
 what to choose better for a mobile phone.  ?  My only use is the handsfree call conversation..


----------



## Gussisaurio

eisenbricher said:


> Both sound a bit dark and have smooth sound signature overall. Mids are better on ATE while bass is better on ZN1 mini. Soundstage IMO is wider on ZN1 mini.
> Aside from that ZN1 mini are very easy to drive.
> 
> Not at all. They are most sensitive KZ along with ED10/11. For example I get the same intensity of sound on 13 ticks of volume of my Xduoo X2 on ZN1 mini whereas I need  >20 on most others.


 

 Thank you EISENbricher. I just ordered them after your recommendation, for $9.50. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Do you know if ZN1 and ZN2 are new, therefore will go down on price in a couple months? Or are they expensive because they are being phased out, stocks running out, therefore, will prices go up in the following weeks?
  
 Every KZ model starts at around USD$50, then they go down in price. Then they go up again until the available stock is depleted.


----------



## Shadowsora

eisenbricher said:


> Your choice. The durability on ZN1 minis are top notch as per my observation and they look much more premium than ATE, especially the silver ones. ATE has another issue that you might have noticed, the earpiece cable joint. Its sharp metallic edge would tear into the cable eventually.
> 
> Anyway it's your choice. ZN1 mini for slightly better bass, slightly recessed mids, bigger soundstage, better build quality and dual driver.


 
 Yeah that's how my ATE broke, then I also failed to recable them and damaged the driver.
 My soldering iron was way to big for that kind of soldering..even though I somehow managed to recable micro driver mh1s.


----------



## EISENbricher

shadowsora said:


> Yeah that's how my ATE broke, then I also failed to recable them and damaged the driver.
> My soldering iron was way to big for that kind of soldering..even though I somehow managed to recable micro driver mh1s.


 
 Thought so. They improved on that issue in ATE-S but messed up the sound as per people's assessment. Didn't order those for myself because of that. 
  


gussisaurio said:


> Thank you EISENbricher. I just ordered them after your recommendation, for $9.50.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great, I hope you like those. 
  
 ZN1's price (with amp) would stay the same. There isn't a ZN2, I guess you're talking about ZS2? Yeah about that I hope its price would come down as it is a fairly new model. 
  
 Hmm... you may wait a bit. Add some of your desired IEMs in wishlist and keep track of it on Ali. I've seen prices for older models fluctuating a lot. You may be able to get at low price at some point. 
  


gvekiaris said:


> ZN1 mini is suitable for my mobile Android smartphone?
> 
> Is better than EDR2,  ED9 and ATE in terms of ear quality and MICROPHONE PERFORMANCE?
> 
> ...


 
 It works flawlessly with Android smartphones, but keep in mind that it doesn't have mic (and there's no version with mic either) and call receive button as well. Also its cable is shorter than average standards. If I plug in ZN1 mini in my smartphone I am unable to keep it in my jeans, but have to keep it in my shirt's pocket. 
  
 We are still waiting for the mic samples, right? I did my part and posted EDR2, HDS1 and HDS3. From these EDR2 was better.


----------



## Deb1995

Hey everyone!
I want to place the order for HDS3 & EDR2. But are they sound good? Is there any other KZ headphone that sound warm, detailed & balanced. Yes! I may be asking too much at this price range, but still is there any KZ IEM which sound close to that.


----------



## EISENbricher

deb1995 said:


> Hey everyone!
> I want to place the order for HDS3 & EDR2. But are they sound good? Is there any other KZ headphone that sound warm, detailed & balanced. Yes! I may be asking too much at this price range, but still is there any KZ IEM which sound close to that.


 
 Warm, detailed and balanced.... IMO EDR2 is right on point. I'd recommend ATE (Translucent) instead of HDS3 though. 
 Because, EDR2 is offering everything HDS3 already can, added with better details and tighter bass and nice mids. 
  
 ATE would be a nice complement as it offers lovely mids, smooth highs and big soundstage. It also has behind the ear fit. Overall two earphones from KZ that are as per your requirements but both have nice distinctive abilities.


----------



## Shawn71

I cant seem to find a lowest price than gb's and cant resist from ordering either.........

http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316681.html

Ordered mine a mic'd version but goin to request them to adjust the order with non-mic as Im not sure about the longevity and reliability of kz mic version iems, & I dont need mic nor a fan.


----------



## EISENbricher

shawn71 said:


> I cant seem to find a lowest price than gb's and cant resist from ordering either.........
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316681.html
> 
> Ordered mine a mic'd version but goin to request them to adjust the order with non-mic as Im not sure about the longevity and reliability of kz mic version iems, & I dont need mic nor a fan.


 
 I also did order from same. Don't worry go ahead. EDR2 is fantastic and IMO KZ's best VFM till date.
 Agreed about mic. I have mic version and the mic looks cheapish. It has clear output though.


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> Long time no visit(due to the capital controls in Greece I took a long break from KZ).
> My ate Just died so I was wondering(It was my favorite from, EDSE/ED3/ED9), should I go for ATE again or try ZN1 mini?


 

 My favourite is also ATE (translucent black), both in stock and modified configuration and my recommendation would be to order ATE again or Yinjw "IE800" wooden version (which is my best IEM in modified configuration atm). I don`t have ZN1mini myself but probably that would also fit Your taste.
  
 Btw guys, I gave up and ordered EDR2 from Gearbest ("shame" on Eisen hyping it! -.- ).
  
 Eisen, from the point of view that I like ATE and ordered EDR2... do You think there is point in ordering HDS1 ?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> My favourite is also ATE (translucent black), both in stock and modified configuration and my recommendation would be to order ATE again or Yinjw "IE800" wooden version (which is my best IEM in modified configuration atm). I don`t have ZN1mini myself but probably that would also fit Your taste.
> 
> Btw guys, I gave up and ordered EDR2 from Gearbest ("shame" on Eisen hyping it! -.- ).
> 
> Eisen, from the point of view that I like ATE and ordered EDR2... do You think there is point in ordering HDS1 ?


 
 Hahaha it's just a payback, you've done this to me in past as well xD
  
 Well it's a no brainer at that price and yes, EDR2 is among best KZs certainly. It sounds like HDS1 with extended FR from both sides and more 'body' to the sound.


----------



## vegetaleb

kaiteck said:


> Kz ate-s box
> 
> 
> Kz ate-s and Kz ate


 
  
 Do you have a pic or video of the ATE + ear hooks on the ears?
 I am afraid they will look too bulky no?
 BTW can't we find slimmer ear hooks?


----------



## kaiteck

vegetaleb said:


> Do you have a pic or video of the ATE + ear hooks on the ears?
> I am afraid they will look too bulky no?
> BTW can't we find slimmer ear hooks?


 
 i find they are just the right size. I like them and i find its bulky is actually good as it makes it more comfortable to wear on and eliminate microphonics. its just a mere $1 to 4 item so just buy and try one.


----------



## CoiL

vegetaleb said:


> BTW can't we find slimmer ear hooks?


 
 Just cut some softer (copper) solid wire (with skin to avoid sweat-allergy) and wind it around IEM wire and shape it as You wish - simple and working solution.


----------



## vegetaleb

kaiteck said:


> i find they are just the right size. I like them and i find its bulky is actually good as it makes it more comfortable to wear on and eliminate microphonics. its just a mere $1 to 4 item so just buy and try one.


 
  
 People don't looks at you bizarrely? I mean due to the thick over the ears rubber thingy?
 Eisen and others convinced me to get the ATE + ear hooks instead of ATES (which come with memory wire), the Easy salesman told me the opposite lol
  


coil said:


> Just cut some softer (copper) solid wire (with skin to avoid sweat-allergy) and wind it around IEM wire and shape it as You wish - simple and working solution.


 
  
 Thanks! You really are the modder in chief here


----------



## kaiteck

vegetaleb said:


> People don't looks at you bizarrely? I mean due to the thick over the ears rubber thingy?
> Eisen and others convinced me to get the ATE + ear hooks instead of ATES (which come with memory wire), the Easy salesman told me the opposite lol


 
 I own both ate and ate-s.

 I prefer to use ATE-s + Ear hooks.

 and there's absolutely none staring at me in my few months experience.


----------



## gvekiaris

Finally I ordered EDR2 for my mobile MEIZU Android smartphone. 
  
 But I would like to order and try another one for the same use (call conversations,  clear and loud sound for my ears and microphone quality for the other part of the telephone communication) 
  
 I am between ZS1, ED9 and ATE.... 
  
 what do you think? 
  
 If you have another proposal except KZ earphones please tell me
  
 Budget around 10 USD 
  
 thanks for your help


----------



## Deb1995

Thanks EISENbricher for your opinion. I will surely try them. Also, I placed the order for KZ ZN1 mini and this will be my first KZ IEM. I'm really excited to hear them!

What is the difference between ATES & ATE translucent in terms of sound quality? Which one is better?


----------



## vapman

I will still mail  my ATE-S to anyone who wants it.... just pay postage...no tips included 
  
 ATE-S has some of the best packaging though.
  
 Can oneone, especially amp users, ecommend me one of two KZ's which are way bassier than the ATE?
  
 The Chord Mojo killed my set of ATE's last night!


----------



## Shawn71

eisenbricher said:


> I also did order from same. Don't worry go ahead. EDR2 is fantastic and IMO KZ's best VFM till date.
> Agreed about mic. I have mic version and the mic looks cheapish. It has clear output though.




Yeah I hope EDR2 is going to be another level from ED9,no doubt about it,its the mic Im concerned.......anyway will try to get the non mic version if not,fresh order another pair w/o mic.The wait begins! Btw, I expect EDR2's strength(rather tuning/driver/sound) be different from ED9!


----------



## Gussisaurio

eisenbricher said:


> There isn't a ZN2, I guess you're talking about ZS2? Yeah about that I hope its price would come down as it is a fairly new model.


 

 Yes, I was refering to ZS1 and ZS2. I will wait a couple months to see if the prices go down. And wait for reviews, also. Thank you.


----------



## Shadowsora

More "Dual-driver" kzs, I see.
 I nearly forgot how KZ releases so many models.
  
 So, ZS1/ZS2/ATE/HDS1/EDR2 once I can buy again, inb4 going bankrupt(again).
 Probably my next ATE will be the "-s" model as my regular one broke due to that metal fit thing.


----------



## justPasca

gvekiaris said:


> Finally I ordered EDR2 for my mobile MEIZU Android smartphone.
> 
> But I would like to order and try another one for the same use (call conversations,  clear and loud sound for my ears and microphone quality for the other part of the telephone communication)
> 
> ...


 

 arround $10 maybe KZ S3 and Joyroom JR-E107. heard lots of good stuff about them.


----------



## zzhead

hi
 for a few more hours.
 special offrer
*KZ  ZN1  UDS 7.92*
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-N1-mini-Dual-Driver-Extra-Bass-Turbo-Wide-Sound-Field-In-ear-Headphones/234124_32600055956.html?spm=5261.7049941.1998656331.2.4ZPaUA&sdom=101.143897.127209.0_32600055956
  
 concerning ne.... I'll pass.
 Just got rid of a pair. Heading for fresh pastures


----------



## rmatech

Anybody bought the zs2 would love to know how they compare with the zs1? Thanks


----------



## gvekiaris

justpasca said:


> arround $10 maybe KZ S3 and Joyroom JR-E107. heard lots of good stuff about them.


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.135.nAvuXw&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_5_505_506_503_504_10034_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10006_10011_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_3&btsid=5a28165b-89f1-403b-9e31-c5c5d7a53108
  
 KZ-S3 is the same with ED3???
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rich-Bass-Headset-KZ-ED3M-Youth-HIFI-Headphone-Stereo-Earphones-For-Phone-MP3-/252307288826?var=&hash=item3abeafb2fam_FIa4ZGKXxFocuepvf24Aw
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-Joyroom-E107-In-Ear-Earphone-3-5MM-Stereo-In-Ear-Headset-Dynamic-Headphone-Aerospace/32591738023.html


----------



## CADCAM

gvekiaris said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.135.nAvuXw&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_5_505_506_503_504_10034_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10006_10011_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_3&btsid=5a28165b-89f1-403b-9e31-c5c5d7a53108
> 
> KZ-S3 is the same with ED3???
> 
> ...


 
 I had the original ED3 Perfection and it was good but not great...awesome build quality though. The S3 didn't wow me and I sold both pairs I bought, gave the Perfection away to a friend who isn't fussy about sq. The ED3c or Acme Youth IMO is exceptional though...smooth, great bass & extended highs...Along with the ED9 my favorite KZ.


----------



## j0p3Y

justpasca said:


> arround $10 maybe KZ S3 and Joyroom JR-E107. heard lots of good stuff about them.


+1 for the Joyroom E107, hands down


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> I had the original ED3 Perfection and it was good but not great...awesome build quality though. The S3 didn't wow me and I sold both pairs I bought, gave the Perfection away to a friend who isn't fussy about sq. The ED3c or Acme Youth IMO is exceptional though...smooth, great bass & extended highs...Along with the ED9 my favorite KZ.


 

 I actually had the Perfections gifted to me (THX sgl) and I did a little tip rolling and ended up with Audio's and I've grown to like them a lot but maybe if and when my ACME's get here I may have a new perspective
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They are built like tanks though and for sure worth their price.


----------



## vapman

if anyone wants to get these damn ATE-S out of my life just let me know. I don't know what I have for tips but if you can cover shipping to wherever you are in the world from scenic New England then they're yours.
  
 Fine for smartphone use but as someone who always amps they're too unbalanced for my liking. The ATE when amped has a whole new character. The ATE-S does not really.


----------



## Shadowsora

vapman said:


> if anyone wants to get these damn ATE-S out of my life just let me know. I don't know what I have for tips but if you can cover shipping to wherever you are in the world from scenic New England then they're yours.
> 
> Fine for smartphone use but as someone who always amps they're too unbalanced for my liking. The ATE when amped has a whole new character. The ATE-S does not really.


 
 I'll PM you in case I find a way to upload some money to my paypal.
 Do you happen to know the average shipping cost inside in Europe?(Greece in particular).


----------



## nolife1123

shadowsora said:


> I'll PM you in case I find a way to upload some money to my paypal.
> Do you happen to know the average shipping cost inside in Europe?(Greece in particular).


 
 Shouldn't be much more over 5$.


----------



## vegetaleb

vapman said:


> if anyone wants to get these damn ATE-S out of my life just let me know. I don't know what I have for tips but if you can cover shipping to wherever you are in the world from scenic New England then they're yours.
> 
> Fine for smartphone use but as someone who always amps they're too unbalanced for my liking. The ATE when amped has a whole new character. The ATE-S does not really.


 
  
 It's your amp you should get rid off 
 Many people are saying they are great after some burnins, I would have take yours but sending from Europe to Lebanon is more expensive than a brand new KZ ATEs with China airmail


----------



## Ruben123

j0p3y said:


> +1 for the Joyroom E107, hands down




What does is sound like?


----------



## CADCAM

vapman said:


> if anyone wants to get these damn ATE-S out of my life just let me know. I don't know what I have for tips but if you can cover shipping to wherever you are in the world from scenic New England then they're yours.
> 
> Fine for smartphone use but as someone who always amps they're too unbalanced for my liking. The ATE when amped has a whole new character. The ATE-S does not really.


 
 Hey I'm in scenic New England too!
  
 Hello neighbor...


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> I actually had the Perfections gifted to me (THX sgl) and I did a little tip rolling and ended up with Audio's and I've grown to like them a lot but maybe if and when my ACME's get here I may have a new perspective
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You know I never got to hear the ED3 Perfection with the Auvio tips but I believe you that there was an improvement in sq.
  
 Let me\us know what you think of the ED3c when you get them in which hopefully will be soon. I have a feeling you gonna like them!


----------



## Gussisaurio

zzhead said:


> hi
> for a few more hours.
> special offrer
> *KZ  ZN1  UDS 7.92*


 

 Thanks for the tip zzhead. Sadly, I bought mine for $9.51 yesterday.


----------



## Gussisaurio

cadcam said:


> I had the original ED3 Perfection and it was good but not great...awesome build quality though. The S3 didn't wow me and I sold both pairs I bought, gave the Perfection away to a friend who isn't fussy about sq. The ED3c or Acme Youth IMO is exceptional though...smooth, great bass & extended highs...Along with the ED9 my favorite KZ.


 

 CADCAM, do you mean ED3 and S3 are two different models?
  
 The ED3 says "Perfection" on the cover.
 The S3 says "The acme" on the cover,
  
 Is that so? Thanks.


----------



## nolife1123

gussisaurio said:


> CADCAM, do you mean ED3 and S3 are two different models?
> 
> The ED3 says "Perfection" on the cover.
> The S3 says "The acme" on the cover,
> ...


 
 They ARE different models.


----------



## j0p3Y

ruben123 said:


> What does is sound like?


https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=Joyroom&id=JR-E107


----------



## B9Scrambler

j0p3y said:


> https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=Joyroom&id=JR-E107




That site is so untrustworthy. Good for a chuckle, but not for actually basing purchases on.


----------



## Gussisaurio

nolife1123 said:


> They ARE different models.


 

 What about the ED3c? Is that an additional model?
  
 So we have:
  
 1. KZ ED3 - Perfection
 2. KZ ED3c - The Acme
 3. KZ S3 - The Acme
  
 Is that so? Is this correct?


----------



## B9Scrambler

gussisaurio said:


> What about the ED3c? Is that an additional model?
> 
> So we have:
> 
> ...


 
  
 This post might help. Shows you the visual differences between the three models:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/9105#post_12268374


----------



## wastan

ruben123 said:


> What does is sound like?



In my woefully inexpert opinion, these are focused on nice, clear mids and enough bass to satisfy on the go listening. You don't get the soundstage you do on the ATE. There are microphonics issues if you don't clip the wire down.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Not KZ, but in the same ballpark.
  
 BGVP YSP04, Enjoy!
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/easy-bgvp-ysp04-metal-10-2mm-dynamic-unit-in-ear-earphone-hifi-headphone-with-mic-titanium-crystal-coating-composite-unit-headset-silver-with-mic/reviews/15480


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> Not KZ, but in the same ballpark.
> 
> BGVP YSP04, Enjoy!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/easy-bgvp-ysp04-metal-10-2mm-dynamic-unit-in-ear-earphone-hifi-headphone-with-mic-titanium-crystal-coating-composite-unit-headset-silver-with-mic/reviews/15480




These sound like my cup of tea! Nice review man


----------



## 1clearhead

justpasca said:


> arround $10 maybe KZ S3 and Joyroom JR-E107. heard lots of good stuff about them.


 

 +1 Yup! You hit the nail with the hammer!....They both sound great!


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> vapman said:
> 
> 
> > if anyone wants to get these damn ATE-S out of my life just let me know. I don't know what I have for tips but if you can cover shipping to wherever you are in the world from scenic New England then they're yours.
> ...


 

 My strong recommendation - get the normal ATE translucent version and just open back covers (very simple) and install some rubber cable reliefs from some other IEM or make Your own reliefs (with earguides?). ATE-S version has so many mixed impressions about bass part and I personally would go for sure thing - non-S version.


----------



## Ruben123

wastan said:


> In my woefully inexpert opinion, these are focused on nice, clear mids and enough bass to satisfy on the go listening. You don't get the soundstage you do on the ATE. There are microphonics issues if you don't clip the wire down.




Need to know more! Can't find much here on head fi. Looking at the frequency response curve it seems to be neutral, how would you, or anybody, compare it to other neutral earphones?


----------



## Gussisaurio

b9scrambler said:


> This post might help. Shows you the visual differences between the three models:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/9105#post_12268374


 

 Oh, thank you very much. Now it is very clear to me. I was about to ask if the ED3c and the ED3 Youth were the same, and according to that post, they are indeed!!! Thanks!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do you by any chance know what are the aesthetic differences between KZ ED4 and KZ S4? Thanks!!!


----------



## j0p3Y

b9scrambler said:


> That site is so untrustworthy. Good for a chuckle, but not for actually basing purchases on.


yeah I know, but I think he's not far off in praising these earphones. Couldn't find another review to present to poster..


----------



## stolikat

So I have tried two models of KZ's. I really liked my ATE-S models even though they have had mixed reviews. The other pair I have is the HDS1. I have two say that they were just ok but not close to my ATE-S. What should I try next?


----------



## EISENbricher

Your sound preferences and liked genres? That would help as KZ has lot of variety to offer.


----------



## stolikat

I listen to Rock, Metal, Punk, Jazz, Blues, old country and Classical. I prefer clear detailed mids and crisp clear highs as far as bass I like it to be detailed and tight but not overpowering (I dont listen to Rap or techno). I am listening through a Micca OriGen Dac the music is then pushed into my Indeed S3 tube amp.


----------



## EISENbricher

stolikat said:


> I listen to Rock, Metal, Punk, Jazz, Blues, old country and Classical. I prefer clear detailed mids and crisp clear highs as far as bass I like it to be detailed and tight but not overpowering (I dont listen to Rap or techno). I am listening through a Micca OriGen Dac the music is then pushed into my Indeed S3 tube amp.


 
 My vote would go to ED9. It has detailed highs (a bit uncontrolled sometimes though), tight bass and good mids. It would probably be the most versatile KZ earphone, especially as you can have two different sound signatures with provided two pairs of nozzles.


----------



## stolikat

eisenbricher said:


> My vote would go to ED9. It has detailed highs (a bit uncontrolled sometimes though), tight bass and good mids. It would probably be the most versatile KZ earphone, especially as you can have two different sound signatures with provided two pairs of nozzles.


 
  
  
 Thanks man! Do any of your guys contrast the Monoprice 108320 with these?


----------



## vegetaleb

If you put sound quality aside, are the ATE-S more heavy duty than the ATE? I mean the cabling is better and more optimized?


----------



## EISENbricher

vegetaleb said:


> If you put sound quality aside, are the ATE-S more heavy duty than the ATE? I mean the cabling is better and more optimized?


 
 That's true.


----------



## ViperScull

I bought a pair of KZ-ATE about 6 months ago. The right earbud doesn't work anymore. The sound is almost imperceptible. Do you know something I can do?

 Apart from that, I want to get a new pair, and I've seen there's plenty of options. Joyroom E107, KZ (ED3c, ED9, ED10, N1 mini, ATE-S, HDS1, ZS1,...list goes on). Throw in any other brand or model that you see as an option. I've checked out Pistons 3 and hybrid but ruled them out reading some reviews in favor of these better value for money ones.
  
 My budget is between 7-15 dollars. I don't use an amp. I listen to a wide range of styles: Classical, Latin, Pop, Rock.. I like a bit of bass emphasis but not too much. I mostly listen to mp3 320kpbs and sometimes FLAC (for classical).
  
 Which one would you go with?
  
 Cheers mates.


----------



## crabdog

viperscull said:


> I bought a pair of KZ-ATE about 6 months ago. The right earbud doesn't work anymore. The sound is almost imperceptible. Do you know something I can do?
> 
> Apart from that, I want to get a new pair, and I've seen there's plenty of options. Joyroom E107, KZ (ED3c, ED9, ED10, N1 mini, ATE-S, HDS1, ZS1,...list goes on). Throw in any other brand or model that you see as an option. I've checked out Pistons 3 and hybrid but ruled them out reading some reviews in favor of these better value for money ones.
> 
> ...


 
 I'd recommend the ED9.


----------



## EISENbricher

viperscull said:


> I bought a pair of KZ-ATE about 6 months ago. The right earbud doesn't work anymore. The sound is almost imperceptible. Do you know something I can do?
> 
> Apart from that, I want to get a new pair, and I've seen there's plenty of options. Joyroom E107, KZ (ED3c, ED9, ED10, N1 mini, ATE-S, HDS1, ZS1,...list goes on). Throw in any other brand or model that you see as an option. I've checked out Pistons 3 and hybrid but ruled them out reading some reviews in favor of these better value for money ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Apart from KZ I've read very positive reviews of E107. You might want to consider that as the signature matches your requirements. Also VE Monk is a must buy if you are open to earbuds.
  
 In the KZ stable I'd recommend EDR2 and ED9. Would go very well with wide range of styles and the bass is good quality, and not overpowering.


----------



## Sylmar

Audiobudget mentioned that the meshes of the Joyroom E107 easily let loose when changing tips. Unfortunately I had the same experience. I hope they will improve quality control as they sound great but maybe not recommended at this state when you will change tips a  lot.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Started work on an updated KZ Shootout (finally). Realized the field has doubled. Lots of KZs are going to be in this one!
  
 HDS1, HDS2, HDS3, EDR2, EDse, ED3, ED3c, ED4, ED8, ED10, ZS1, ZN1 Mini, C56R, CM9, DS, ANV, ATE, ED9, Micro Ring, R3 (RX, DT5, and Z1 on the way)
  
 This may take a while, lol.


----------



## ViperScull

eisenbricher said:


> Apart from KZ I've read very positive reviews of E107. You might want to consider that as the signature matches your requirements. Also VE Monk is a must buy if you are open to earbuds.
> 
> In the KZ stable I'd recommend EDR2 and ED9. Would go very well with wide range of styles and the bass is good quality, and not overpowering.


 
 I prefer IEM, but I might get the VE Monk for a birthday present for my gf along with a player (time to find a good value for money music player now).
  


sylmar said:


> Audiobudget mentioned that the meshes of the Joyroom E107 easily let loose when changing tips. Unfortunately I had the same experience. I hope they will improve quality control as they sound great but maybe not recommended at this state when you will change tips a  lot.


 
  
 So it's between the E107 and the ED9.
 I just take out the tips to wash them. I usually wear the same size pair for quite some time. How often is "a lot" to notice it?
  
 One problem I had with the ATE was that the tips stayed inside my ears when I removed the monitors after a few weeks using them. So if ATE and ED9 share the same system I might give a try to the E107.


----------



## EISENbricher

viperscull said:


> I prefer IEM, but I might get the VE Monk for a birthday present for my gf along with a player (time to find a good value for money music player now).


 
 Fioo M3 / Xduoo X2 / Ruizu X02 ... just my suggestion.
 All are very good for their respective price.


----------



## wastan

eisenbricher said:


> Fioo M3 / Xduoo X2 / Ruizu X02 ... just my suggestion.
> All are very good for their respective price.



There's also the AGPtEK B03 (made by Ruizu) which is pretty good.


----------



## Sylmar

viperscull said:


> I prefer IEM, but I might get the VE Monk for a birthday present for my gf along with a player (time to find a good value for money music player now).
> 
> 
> So it's between the E107 and the ED9.
> ...


 
 I think I tried about 7 different tips on my E107 but I am always careful when changing them. It looks like they don't appreciate tips changing a lot. However if you pretty much already know which tips you want to use with it, it might be worth the effort since they offer a lot of detail.


----------



## Ruben123

sylmar said:


> I think I tried about 7 different tips on my E107 but I am always careful when changing them. It looks like they don't appreciate tips changing a lot. However if you pretty much already know which tips you want to use with it, it might be worth the effort since they offer a lot of detail.



 


Can you tell me more about the E107s? Cant find much info about them, only here and there some praise.


----------



## Sylmar

ruben123 said:


> sylmar said:
> 
> 
> > I think I tried about 7 different tips on my E107 but I am always careful when changing them. It looks like they don't appreciate tips changing a lot. However if you pretty much already know which tips you want to use with it, it might be worth the effort since they offer a lot of detail.
> ...


 
 I would love being able to give you more info but only could enjoy them for a short while. Did you visit audiobudget.com? The owner of that site does mini-reviews and reviewed the E107 as well. He also mentioned the crisp sound and that is what first struck me. I did notice some hissing at high volumes but I also had that with my Zircon's when I first tried them and that went away with time. 
  
 I did like how they are built, metal and they are real small. I might end up buying another one anyway and not change tips all the time.


----------



## Ruben123

sylmar said:


> I would love being able to give you more info but only could enjoy them for a short while. Did you visit audiobudget.com? The owner of that site does mini-reviews and reviewed the E107 as well. He also mentioned the crisp sound and that is what first struck me. I did notice some hissing at high volumes but I also had that with my Zircon's when I first tried them and that went away with time.
> 
> I did like how they are built, metal and they are real small. I might end up buying another one anyway and not change tips all the time.



 


Ive seen it! Thanks. Do you have any other (KZ?) earphones to which you can compare them?


----------



## Sylmar

ruben123 said:


> sylmar said:
> 
> 
> > I would love being able to give you more info but only could enjoy them for a short while. Did you visit audiobudget.com? The owner of that site does mini-reviews and reviewed the E107 as well. He also mentioned the crisp sound and that is what first struck me. I did notice some hissing at high volumes but I also had that with my Zircon's when I first tried them and that went away with time.
> ...


 
 Unfortunately I don't but I am very curious about KZ earphones, still have to buy my first one though. Hopefully others might help you out with a sound comparison.


----------



## anticute

silentcinema said:


> A/b with edr2 and joyroom E107 both with around 2 hours worth of burn in time. Joyroom E107, immediate winner instruments separation is greater along with better soundstage airyness, listening to flac 24 bit Maroon 5-animals, i got lost in the track with the joyroom E107 (great instrument separation for price point) but with the Edr2 i felt the track sounded a bit crammed together making it sound as if some instruments were missing. Oh well just my opinion nevertheless erd2 is still a good budget earphone if u need a microphone and the build does seem stronger than the joyroom E107 and still definitely better than the hds3 imo.


 
 This.
  
 I like the EDR2, and the ED4 as well, but the Joyroom is just better all around IMO. Extremely small, but with a big sound. It's been my daily driver since I managed to break my beloved Tingo FL800. Now I'm waiting for LZ z03a and Sendiy M2, but if none of those work out, I'm probably getting another FL800.
  
 I've actually left this thread a bit, since none of the KZ's I've tried really reach the level of the Joyroom or Tingo. It's fun to experiment, but I've sort of reached the point where I'd rather save up 5 KZ's and buy a higher end IEM instead.. I might check in from time to time to see if something new and exciting has come out with higher SQ.


----------



## Nafis

I'll be receiving my Joyroom 107 in few days will let you guys know whether it's better then ZN1 Mini and ATE.


----------



## Ruben123

nafis said:


> I'll be receiving my Joyroom 107 in few days will let you guys know whether it's better then ZN1 Mini and ATE.



 


Good!!


----------



## CADCAM

anticute said:


> This.
> 
> I like the EDR2, and the ED4 as well, but the Joyroom is just better all around IMO. Extremely small, but with a big sound. It's been my daily driver since I managed to break my beloved Tingo FL800. Now I'm waiting for LZ z03a and Sendiy M2, but if none of those work out, I'm probably getting another FL800.
> 
> I've actually left this thread a bit, since none of the KZ's I've tried really reach the level of the Joyroom or Tingo. It's fun to experiment, but I've sort of reached the point where I'd rather save up 5 KZ's and buy a higher end IEM instead.. I might check in from time to time to see if something new and exciting has come out with higher SQ.


 
 Did you happen to try the ED3c? I was wondering how it stood up again the Joyroom...


----------



## anticute

cadcam said:


> Did you happen to try the ED3c? I was wondering how it stood up again the Joyroom...


 
 Nope, sorry, maybe someone else has both..


----------



## ViperScull

eisenbricher said:


> Fioo M3 / Xduoo X2 / Ruizu X02 ... just my suggestion.
> All are very good for their respective price.


 
  
  


wastan said:


> There's also the AGPtEK B03 (made by Ruizu) which is pretty good.


 
  
 Ruizu X02 looks really nice. In this link in Aliexpress is said to have less than 10 hours of battery life, but in amazon is listed with a playback time of almost 50 hours...
  
 I can get the AGPtEK B03  in Amazon so that would mean no long wait. The price of the AGPtEK is twice the price of the X02 in China though. But 8GB instead of 4, and it says up to 70 hours of playback time. Tough decission.
  
 By the way, I already purchased the VE monk, and as soon as I decide which colour I'll buy the Joyroom E107.


----------



## omgflyingbanana

Does anyone how to take apart the KZ-ATE S? A driver is loose in the right unit and I want to fix it.


----------



## gvekiaris

wastan said:


> There's also the AGPtEK B03 (made by Ruizu) which is pretty good.


 
 give us links where exactly to buy these earphones?


----------



## gvekiaris

eisenbricher said:


> Fioo M3 / Xduoo X2 / Ruizu X02 ... just my suggestion.
> All are very good for their respective price.


 
 give us links where exactly to buy these earphones?


----------



## Legislative

Those are daps not earphones


----------



## Deviltooth

So I bought a few KZ earphones.  I just received the KZ ED-9 and am impressed by it's value for the dollar.  My question is this: The earphone comes with two sets of filters, the brighter gold colour are what it's equipped with out of the box.  I've tried changing the filters but unlike Torque's perfectly machined valves (a much higher price point), the gold on the earphones will not come off (I've used a lot of force and fear any more would cause damage).  What am I missing by not testing the lighter coloured filter?  If it's brighter/sharper I'm less interested as, so far, I find KZ IEMs to be a bit brighter than my preference.


----------



## CADCAM

deviltooth said:


> So I bought a few KZ earphones.  I just received the KZ ED-9 and am impressed by it's value for the dollar.  My question is this: The earphone comes with two sets of filters, the brighter gold colour are what it's equipped with out of the box.  I've tried changing the filters but unlike Torque's perfectly machined valves (a much higher price point), the gold on the earphones will not come off (I've used a lot of force and fear any more would cause damage).  What am I missing by not testing the lighter coloured filter?  If it's brighter/sharper I'm less interested as, so far, I find KZ IEMs to be a bit brighter than my preference.


 

 They unscrew (right tighten, loose left) I do find it easier to remove them with a set of tips on. The brass (lighter) nozzles are more neutral and not as V shaped as the gold. I personally like the brass... just make sure the tiny paper filter inside the brass nozzle is seated on the inside wall correctly. I also experimented with putting small amounts of filter type material in the brass nozzles and they are just awesome.


----------



## wastan

gvekiaris said:


> give us links where exactly to buy these earphones?



It's a DAP you can buy at Amazon.


----------



## wastan

viperscull said:


> Ruizu X02 looks really nice. In this link in Aliexpress is said to have less than 10 hours of battery life, but in amazon is listed with a playback time of almost 50 hours...
> 
> I can get the AGPtEK B03  in Amazon so that would mean no long wait. The price of the AGPtEK is twice the price of the X02 in China though. But 8GB instead of 4, and it says up to 70 hours of playback time. Tough decission.
> 
> By the way, I already purchased the VE monk, and as soon as I decide which colour I'll buy the Joyroom E107.




I haven't formally measured how many playback hours per charge you get with the B03 but you do get a LOT of them; very long life per charge.


----------



## EISENbricher

deviltooth said:


> So I bought a few KZ earphones.  I just received the KZ ED-9 and am impressed by it's value for the dollar.  My question is this: The earphone comes with two sets of filters, the brighter gold colour are what it's equipped with out of the box.  I've tried changing the filters but unlike Torque's perfectly machined valves (a much higher price point), the gold on the earphones will not come off (I've used a lot of force and fear any more would cause damage).  What am I missing by not testing the lighter coloured filter?  If it's brighter/sharper I'm less interested as, so far, I find KZ IEMs to be a bit brighter than my preference.



Well ED9 are among the brightest sounding KZ. You may in that case easily can find it something matching to your taste here. 

About the nozzle I'd say take a cloth and use it like a glove. Unscrew the nozzle in anti clockwise direction with force. Don't worry about it getting damaged, because it's very sturdy.


----------



## seanwee

eisenbricher said:


> *Well ED9 are among the brightest sounding KZ*. You may in that case easily can find it something matching to your taste here.
> 
> About the nozzle I'd say take a cloth and use it like a glove. Unscrew the nozzle in anti clockwise direction with force. Don't worry about it getting damaged, because it's very sturdy.


 
 Well , i guess ill be putting them on my to buy list.


----------



## EISENbricher

seanwee said:


> Well , i guess ill be putting them on my to buy list.


 
 You might want to add EDR2 in your list as it's treble, micro details are very good among KZ. And currently just at $5.17 on Gearbest including shipping.


----------



## seanwee

Great , now i cant make up my mind again .


----------



## seanwee

I cant buy from any websites outside malaysia as i dont want to go through trouble in customs.
 lazada is the only place i can buy KZ iems


----------



## Filip Nedam

I bought kz ed4, but it has almost no bass.Witch KZ have bassy sound, something like xiaomi dual drivers, with mic ?


----------



## EISENbricher

seanwee said:


> I cant buy from any websites outside malaysia as i dont want to go through trouble in customs.
> lazada is the only place i can buy KZ iems


 
  
  


filip nedam said:


> I bought kz ed4, but it has almost no bass.Witch KZ have bassy sound, something like xiaomi dual drivers, with mic ?


 
 ED10/11, ED8m, ZS1 offer huge bass. 
  
 ED10/11 : V-shaped FR, sub bass is rumbling, and mid bass is aggressive, fluid.
 ED8m : Mild V-shaped FR compared to ED10/11. Very punchy, textured mid bass and layered sub bass. 
 ZS1 : L-shaped FR. 'Soundstage' bass, equal amount of mid and sub bass. 
  
 Other KZs which offer above average quantities of bass but can't be termed as 'basshead' earphones are ATE, EDR2, ZN1, HDS3 and more.


----------



## Filip Nedam

eisenbricher said:


> ED10/11, ED8m, ZS1 offer huge bass.
> 
> ED10/11 : V-shaped FR, sub bass is rumbling, and mid bass is aggressive, fluid.
> ED8m : Mild V-shaped FR compared to ED10/11. Very punchy, textured mid bass and layered sub bass.
> ...


 
 so wich do u suggest, wich is more like xiaomi dual drivers ?


----------



## j0p3Y

filip nedam said:


> so wich do u suggest, wich is more like xiaomi dual drivers ?


I hope none is, since xiaomi hybrid suck big time... Very veiled SQ. I would suggest ZN1 mini or EDR2, depending on the fit you prefer most. Only in ear canal (EDR2) or also in earshell (ZN1 mini)


----------



## crabdog

seanwee said:


> I cant buy from any websites outside malaysia as i dont want to go through trouble in customs.
> lazada is the only place i can buy KZ iems


 
 I bought EDR2 and ED9 from Lazada. Both good. Also if you want something with more bass maybe look at ROCK Zircon (also available on Lazada).


----------



## Filip Nedam

j0p3y said:


> I hope none is, since xiaomi hybrid suck big time... Very veiled SQ. I would suggest ZN1 mini or EDR2, depending on the fit you prefer most. Only in ear canal (EDR2) or also in earshell (ZN1 mini)


 
 ok, but non of these have microphone


----------



## crabdog

filip nedam said:


> ok, but non of these have microphone


 
 My EDR2 has microphone.


----------



## Filip Nedam

crabdog said:


> My EDR2 has microphone.


 
 are they basshead, bassy ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

"are they basshead, bassy ?
"

Nope. ED8 or ED10 would be better if you want bassy+mic.

*edit - Headfi has been enjoying quoting random posts instead of the one I pick as of late...weird*


----------



## EISENbricher

filip nedam said:


> are they basshead, bassy ?


 
 These are EDR2 with mic, available for $5.71 with free shipping : http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316680.html
 Killer deal, you can't go wrong with this. 
  
 They aren't 'basshead' bassy, but respond well to the EQ and provide ample bass when required. Still if you are a basshead then you should look into the three that I had suggested.


----------



## Filip Nedam

eisenbricher said:


> These are EDR2 with mic, available for $5.71 with free shipping : http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316680.html
> Killer deal, you can't go wrong with this.
> 
> They aren't 'basshead' bassy, but respond well to the EQ and provide ample bass when required. Still if you are a basshead then you should look into the three that I had suggested.


 
 ED10/11,ED8m, ZS1 but non of them have mic :/


----------



## EISENbricher

filip nedam said:


> ED10/11,ED8m, ZS1 but non of them have mic :/


 
 Where are you getting this info from? All have Mic versions.


----------



## Filip Nedam

eisenbricher said:


> Where are you getting this info from? All have Mic versions.


 
 sry, my bad..ok, so wich one has deepest and strongest bass (like  xiaomi dual drivers) ?
 wich one should I order ?
  
 what about these ?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-X1-Original-headset-professional-in-ear-headphones-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-earphone-HIFI/1974879251.html?aff_platform=aaf&sk=2zNZzjaM3%3A&cpt=1458124514540&aff_trace_key=94e9849acfb144de836295b97ef4be52-1458124514540-08228-2zNZzjaM3
  
 or 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-Letv-3-5-mm-in-ear-headset-wire-control-with-microphone-for-samsung-huawei-thousand/32555524563.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

What I've read of the Letv is that you should get the Piston 2.0 instead, lol.


----------



## EISENbricher

filip nedam said:


> sry, my bad..ok, so wich one has deepest and strongest bass (like  xiaomi dual drivers) ?
> wich one should I order ?
> 
> what about these ?
> ...


 
 Don't go for Tuna stuff. Can't guarantee about its authenticity. Some Tunas were rebranded KZ but that's not true for all Tuna IEMs. Better to buy from KZ's official stores on AliExpress. 
  
 Deepest + Strongest would be ZS1 or ED10/11. R1 is an option too but it's hard to find now.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> What I've read of the Letv is that you should get the Piston 2.0 instead, lol.




Do you know where you read it? I'm interested in them too after I saw a mention here that they are more balanced than joyroom e107. Since pistons 2 are v shaped, I can understand why people don't like it. I'd like to know more about them though.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> What I've read of the Letv is that you should get the Piston 2.0 instead, lol.


 
 Hey B9 if you happen to have an old pair of *real* Piston 2's hanging around put some Auvio tips on them and give a listen...


----------



## Filip Nedam

eisenbricher said:


> Don't go for Tuna stuff. Can't guarantee about its authenticity. Some Tunas were rebranded KZ but that's not true for all Tuna IEMs. Better to buy from KZ's official stores on AliExpress.
> 
> Deepest + Strongest would be ZS1 or ED10/11. R1 is an option too but it's hard to find now.


 
KZ ZS1/KZ ZS2 - same ?


----------



## Podster

filip nedam said:


> KZ ZS1/KZ ZS2 - same ?


 

 Did KZ not already say they were the same but only in blue now? My first pair of ED9 were Tuna and they are exactly like my other three pair but as you say not all Tuna KZ models are true KZ


----------



## Filip Nedam

filip nedam said:


> KZ ZS1/KZ ZS2 - same ?


 
 how about this one ?
Rock Zircon Nano and Rock Zircon are the same ?
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/iphone-headsets/pp_234354.html


----------



## EISENbricher

filip nedam said:


> how about this one ?
> Rock Zircon Nano and Rock Zircon are the same ?
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/iphone-headsets/pp_234354.html


 
 This thread would be more helpful, in that case : http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/23895#post_12426373


----------



## JonnyM

I just made a cmoy amp in my ed-9 box


----------



## Podster

jonnym said:


> I just made a cmoy amp in my ed-9 box


 

 Sweet, nice work Jonny
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I never got any of my KZ's in that style box except my ZN1's, but I think it is larger?


----------



## JonnyM

Thanks! 
My box is rather big 60mmx120mmx34mm


----------



## EISENbricher

jonnym said:


> I just made a cmoy amp in my ed-9 box


 
 Excellent work! This looks great!!


----------



## Deb1995

Nice work!


----------



## robervaul

JonnyMGenius.Could you please share the details of this project with us? Sustainability. Great.


----------



## JonnyM

Sure, It's powered by 3 cellphone batteries in series and I'm using a tle2426 as rail splitter. I don't have any capacitors on the input since my dac doesn't have any dc voltage on the output.
I'm currently using a ne5532 and it sounds fine but I've ordered a ad8066 to try out.


----------



## Deviltooth

Note: The KZ-ED9 has (in theory) two filter choices.  In practice that's not the case as the IEM I received has filters that cannot be removed (wrench, pliers et al....).  The sound quality is good, but the quality control and attention to manufacturing detail is very poor in both the ED-9 and ED-4 (where the mesh grills in front of the driver both fell out).  Under $20 I'd call the ED9 a good deal.  I'd vote to avoid the ED-4 which possesses a shrill tone.


----------



## Podster

deviltooth said:


> Note: The KZ-ED9 has (in theory) two filter choices.  In practice that's not the case as the IEM I received has filters that cannot be removed (wrench, pliers et al....).  The sound quality is good, but the quality control and attention to manufacturing detail is very poor in both the ED-9 and ED-4 (where the mesh grills in front of the driver both fell out).  Under $20 I'd call the ED9 a good deal.  I'd vote to avoid the ED-4 which possesses a shrill tone.


 

 I hate to hear that about your ED9 filters as I've had not trouble at all changing the filters on any of the 4 pair (gifted two pair away) I have! I never had to take wrench or pliers to mine as all I've ever had to do is pinch the rubber tips and unscrew them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My first two pair were under $10


----------



## kiler

Can you try to contact your seller to tell them about the quality issue? Maybe they'll send you another one


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Do you know where you read it? I'm interested in them too after I saw a mention here that they are more balanced than joyroom e107. Since pistons 2 are v shaped, I can understand why people don't like it. I'd like to know more about them though.


 
  
 I can't recall but know I read something near the end of last year. Although, the more I think of it I may be mistaking them for another earphone entirely. I recall what they look like (alien spacecraft comes to mind, haha), just not the name.
  


cadcam said:


> Hey B9 if you happen to have an old pair of *real* Piston 2's hanging around put some Auvio tips on them and give a listen...


 
  
 I do in fact have a pair of real Piston 2.1s (white). Have no Auvio tips but I don't think they would work for me. I was never a fan of the general signature and the shell is a bit too broad/shallow fitting to be as comfortable as I like. Good earphone, just not for me which is why I recommended the ED9 over it way back when. I'll also take the Piston 3 over the P2 any day.


----------



## vapman

Got my replacement ATE's today, haha. They're my third set of the black color ones alone and fifth if you count all my ATE's. dang! that's a lot of money.
  
 What was weird about these ATE's is every time before I got it in that shield-looking case. This time I got a gold box that said "GranVela" on it so I was worried I got sent the wrong thing but sure enough it's the good old ATE's I know and love!
  
 They also came with a zip up case this time which I've never gotten before. That was an extremely welcome upgrade.


----------



## Podster

vapman said:


> Got my replacement ATE's today, haha. They're my third set of the black color ones alone and fifth if you count all my ATE's. dang! that's a lot of money.
> 
> What was weird about these ATE's is every time before I got it in that shield-looking case. This time I got a gold box that said "GranVela" on it so I was worried I got sent the wrong thing but sure enough it's the good old ATE's I know and love!
> 
> They also came with a zip up case this time which I've never gotten before. That was an extremely welcome upgrade.




I call it the Cracker Jack effect. A lit of different Chinese sellers will put a surprise with your iem's Sometimes its extra tips, some kind of clip or a bag/pouch And sometimes you get lucky to have one extra pair of tips!


----------



## vapman

podster said:


> I call it the Cracker Jack effect. A lit of different Chinese sellers will put a surprise with your iem's Sometimes its extra tips, some kind of clip or a bag/pouch And sometimes you get lucky to have one extra pair of tips!


 

 I like that name a lot, I'll start using that, and crediting you, if you don't mind! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's half the fun of buying all these cheapo IEMs too. And I have to place another Easy Earphones order cause I didn't know head-fi'ers got discounts before I ordered more backup ATE's and the Tomahawk!


----------



## Ruben123

So I took my monoprice earphones out of my drawer after a long time no use... Seriously, people in the US, if you're looking for very natural sound you must buy them.
At this price I haven't found any Chinese iem that sounds like this good. Bass may be found anemic for many though and fit could be an issue but when it fits... Wow. I've once said that they're 90-95% of Havi's SQ and I don't know why I can't keep myself remembering it and buying new earphones once in a while to actually find "new" monoprices.
In my opinion, no ed9, edse, hds1, anv or edr2 can compete with this clarity, balancedness, relaxing though natural sound. You might need to put a little bit of cloth or cotton in the tips for the treble peak that may bother you.


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> So I took my monoprice earphones out of my drawer after a long time no use... Seriously, people in the US, if you're looking for very natural sound you must buy them.
> At this price I haven't found any Chinese iem that sounds like this good. Bass may be found anemic for many though and fit could be an issue but when it fits... Wow. I've once said that they're 90-95% of Havi's SQ and I don't know why I can't keep myself remembering it and buying new earphones once in a while to actually find "new" monoprices.
> In my opinion, no ed9, edse, hds1, anv or edr2 can compete with this clarity, balancedness, relaxing though natural sound. You might need to put a little bit of cloth or cotton in the tips for the treble peak that may bother you.




I don't doubt it a bit Ruben, when I first joined Head-fi it seemed everyone had a pair of Monoprice (i know I'm off here but something like an 8823 or four digit number like it) in lots of photos too. There are lots of sweet old school iem's buried in some drawer some where because in this hobby the need to try something new is equivalent to being hooked on smack


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> I don't doubt it a bit Ruben, when I first joined Head-fi it seemed everyone had a pair of Monoprice (i know I'm off here but something like an 8823 or four digit number like it) in lots of photos too. There are lots of sweet old school iem's buried in some drawer some where because in this hobby the need to try something new is equivalent to being hooked on smack




If only I could find an iem like it from China. Monoprices could "only" be bought in US, or on eBay with huge shipping prices. I might try the LeTV all metal earphones, here and there finding positive things about them!


----------



## kiler

I haven't tried the monoprices, but if you like a relaxing sound you should try the VE Monks (they are earbuds tho). And I think that you can't find a signature like the monoprices in china earphones because they want to appeal to the consumer, and that is almost always obtained by having a non flat frequency response.


----------



## Podster

Ruben123 said:
			
		

> .
> If only I could find an iem like it from China. Monoprices could "only" be bought in US, or on eBay with huge shipping prices. I might try the LeTV all metal earphones, here and there finding positive things about them!




You should jump into Chinese thread and let those folks sell you on what they think is the closest to the old Monoprice's

I'm with you on the Monks Kiler, IMHO for $5 everyone should have a pair in a drawer for emergencies It is also my opinion that many may come out of that drawer often. In thus hobby you can't get any more quality sound for the price


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> You should jump into Chinese thread and let those folks sell you on what they think is the closest to the old Monoprice's
> 
> I'm with you on the Monks Kiler, IMHO for $5 everyone should have a pair in a drawer for emergencies It is also my opinion that many may come out of that drawer often. In thus hobby you can't get any more quality sound for the price




I have 2 Monks! And unfortunately my questions about the LeTV earphones remain unanswered  will try asking about china monoprices


----------



## reimontok

yesterday i got my pairs of zn1 mini and hds1, i feel the zn1 was a lil too bassy, but everything was ok, and the hds1 i think they are a lil bright. maybe changing tips or they need some burn-in ?


----------



## EISENbricher

reimontok said:


> yesterday i got my pairs of zn1 mini and hds1, i feel the zn1 was a lil too bassy, but everything was ok, and the hds1 i think they are a lil bright. maybe changing tips or they need some burn-in ?


 
 ZN1 mini improves after some burn in, IMO. Of course tip rolling always helps! As a rule of thump try wide bore tips on bassier phones and narrow bore on bright earphones to compensate.


----------



## CoiL

Hey guys, is there anybody in this thread locating inside EU who can and is willing to do some measurements on my modified KZ IEM`s and give some feedback? I just wish to know how things I`m hearing correlate with FR graphs and other ppl subjective taste. 
 If there is someone, then please send me PM with some information on tip-size You`re using, gear used and music genre preferences...
 and destination information.


----------



## 1clearhead

jonnym said:


> I just made a cmoy amp in my ed-9 box


 
  
 Nice and sweet! .....Don't give KZ any ideas, patent it and have them hire you first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Great job!!!


----------



## EISENbricher

Asked KZ rep about any new release. He said a new earphone model would be coming soon. Fingers crossed.

Havi and Vsonic should take a lesson from KZ on this..


----------



## carltonh

eisenbricher said:


> Asked KZ rep about any new release. He said a new earphone model would be coming soon. Fingers crossed.
> 
> Havi and Vsonic should take a lesson from KZ on this..


 

 Haha. Well, if they are unique and mind blowing for the price, post in the Chinese/Asian thread. I have at least 9 KZs. None horrible, but if I could have evaluated all of them first, I think I would have only purchased the EDR2 and the HDS3. The rest are superfluous, if not bad and many quite good, yet for the price spent on the others, I could have got something in the mind blowing range.


----------



## Podster

Hark, I hear a choir Then again it could be preaching


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Asked KZ rep about any new release. He said a new earphone model would be coming soon. Fingers crossed.
> 
> Havi and Vsonic should take a lesson from KZ on this..




Were all just waiting on KZ to hire a Mr. Lao is it (sp), you know one if those up and coming multi driver hybrid designers to put the hurt on those multi $K TOTL IEM/CIEM manufacturers


----------



## EISENbricher

Yup, KZ should now venture into hybrid, multi driver game. Its rapidly becoming a new flavor for head-fiers. 

I dig most KZ releases though. I still cannot ascertain any 'favorite' KZ as I'm a moody man and my taste changes faster than a day/night. So almost all of my earphones are always in rotation, and hence I alwayd carry all in my backpack.


----------



## vegetaleb

eisenbricher said:


> Asked KZ rep about any new release. He said a new earphone model would be coming soon. Fingers crossed.
> 
> Havi and Vsonic should take a lesson from KZ on this..


 
  
 I hope a Z1N ampless + mic and sports fit 
 Still no ZS2 review?


----------



## To.M

carltonh
I agree about EDR2, been testing them for a week and my impressions are very positive,got them for ridiculous 5.5usd from gearbest and they punch way above their weight!


----------



## James Freeman

I just ordered the ED9, ZN1 Mini, ATE-S as suggested in this thread.
 Hope they are better than AWEI Q3 or Philips SHE3590.


----------



## Sylmar

james freeman said:


> I just ordered the ED9, ZN1 Mini, ATE-S as suggested in this thread.
> Hope they are better than AWEI Q3 or Philips SHE3590.


 
 I also have to jump into the KZ brand. It would be nice if you could post some impressions when you get them.


----------



## James Freeman

I ordered from Aliexpress, maybe in a month or so.
 I'll definitely post my impression and a well written comparison.
  
 I own ATH-M40X and ATH-M50 headphones and Behringer Truth B3030A studio monitor with ribbon tweeters.
 Not the most expensive gear but definitely delivers the goods.
  
 Hope KZ (any of them) will not disappoint as a portable in-ear equivalent of my reference gear.


----------



## Sylmar

james freeman said:


> I ordered from Aliexpress, maybe in a month or so.
> I'll definitely post my impression and a well written comparison.
> 
> I own ATH-M40X and ATH-M50 headphones and Behringer Truth B3030A studio monitor with ribbon tweeters.
> ...


 
 Would be much appreciated. Hopefully they will be to your liking. Still discovering my Rock Zircon's. I can see why some like them and some don't. On my device (rockboxed iRiver) they sound great with electronic music.


----------



## CADCAM

I have the following KZ's ~ 
 ED9 - detailed, 2 sets of nozzles for sound signature options, well built, some love them...some don't. I do.
 HDS1 - small & comfy, cable stinks, neutral balanced sound, can sound flat but overall very nice iem for small $.
 ATE - dark with rolled off treble, nicely textured sound sig, designed for wire up, I like them and kept them.
 EDSE - dynamic sound from top to bottom, sound great from portable players (Clip & Fuse), great build quality.
 ED3c Acme - smooth, dynamic, detailed, impressive, one of my favorites, I think they are excellent for the $ 
 EDR2 - good highs & lows, well built, feel lighter than EDSE, good all arounder but I prefer ED3c JMHO.
 ZS1 - couldn't get the right fit\tip so never really got to hear them, wire up, keeping them in hope I can find a tip that works...
  
 I have owned but either sold or gave away ~
 S3 - wanted to love them but didn't, little ragged in the highs at times...could have been a tip issue. 
 ED10 - loved them at first but each listen brought issue's, bassy, too bright, harsh highs, some people love these though so YMMV
 ATE-S - again wire up fit issue's, bassy, didn't have the time to try and get them where they needed to be...sold
 ED3 Perfection - built like a tank, pretty nice sounding but overshadowed by more current KZ  options. 
  
 system = Beresford amp & DAC, spinning real CD's...old skool


----------



## 1clearhead

carltonh said:


> Haha. Well, if they are unique and mind blowing for the price, post in the Chinese/Asian thread. I have at least 9 KZs. None horrible, but if I could have evaluated all of them first, I think I would have only purchased the EDR2 and the HDS3. The rest are superfluous, if not bad and many quite good, yet for the price spent on the others, I could have got something in the mind blowing range.



 
Sounds good!

Can you describe their sound signature when comparing them to KZ-S3 and ED9?


----------



## AhmedouviX

cadcam said:


> I have the following KZ's ~
> ED9 - detailed, 2 sets of nozzles for optional sound signatures, well built, some love them...some don't. I do.
> HDS1 - small & comfy, cable stinks, neutral balanced sound, can sound flat but overall very nice iem for small $.
> ATE - dark with rolled off treble, nicely textured sound sig, designed for wire up, I like them and kept them.
> ...


 
  
 which one do you recommend to get with the rock zircon?


----------



## CADCAM

ahmedouvix said:


> which one do you recommend to get with the rock zircon?


 
 I'd get Auvio tips for the Zirc's and maybe the ED3c...if you like detail and don't mind a little prep work the ED9 brass can be interesting.


----------



## B9Scrambler

to.m said:


> carltonh
> I agree about EDR2, been testing them for a week and my impressions are very positive,got them for ridiculous 5.5usd from gearbest and they punch way above their weight!




There's a reason I've been saying the EDR2 are the best of the bunch for months now. Sound quality is great, and when you put price back into the equation the value you get is insane.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> There's a reason I've been saying the EDR2 are the best of the bunch for months now. Sound quality is great, and when you put price back into the equation the value you get is insane.


 

 Stop it B9, that boat from China with mines still not arrived
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 LOL, guess I need to post early morning frowny faces more often
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems no sooner than I initially posted this message did my front desk tell me I had mail and low and behold.....

  
 Remember me talking about the Cracker Jack effect when ordering my KZ through AliEx? Well this is the skimpiest KZ packaging I've ever gotten to date, no box even and only the alternate tips
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But for $5 flat and all the positive hype on these I'm already feeling like I've gotten a killer deal without even putting them in/on


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Stop it B9, that boat from China with mines still not arrived




Oh man. I'm sorry! I forgot that my job is to drop a couple hints here and there about how frickin' awesome an iem is and leave the hyping to others whrn they finally get theirs  lol!


----------



## Shawn71

podster said:


> Stop it B9, that boat from China with mines still not arrived




The wait is killing me more after I saw mines shipped today from gb.......btw, if someone looking fior the red core/smokey silicon tips as spares/collection just buy them,thats a good price.

 http://m.aliexpress.com/store/customModule.htm?sellerAdminSeq=224701538&moduleIndex=3

while I type this Im all ears with ed9/finger eleven-paralyzed. Hope the edr2 de-throne my ed9? Let me see.jk


----------



## CADCAM

I need to go listen to my EDR2 again...I don't remember being blown away by them.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 B9 what are you using as source and what type of music genre?


----------



## carltonh

1clearhead said:


> carltonh said:
> 
> 
> > Haha. Well, if they are unique and mind blowing for the price, post in the Chinese/Asian thread. I have at least 9 KZs. None horrible, but if I could have evaluated all of them first, I think I would have only purchased the EDR2 and the HDS3. The rest are superfluous, if not bad and many quite good, yet for the price spent on the others, I could have got something in the mind blowing range.
> ...


 
  
 I don't have the ED9, but just doing a quick A/B with the S3. The S3 is brighter, more prominent treble, and the EDR2 has more subbass. I like the midrange on the EDR2 a little better, maybe a little cleaner. But these are all pretty small variances as they are quite similar.


----------



## Podster

shawn71 said:


> The wait is killing me more after I saw mines shipped today from gb.......btw, if someone looking fior the red core/smokey silicon tips as spares/collection just buy them,thats a good price.
> 
> http://m.aliexpress.com/store/customModule.htm?sellerAdminSeq=224701538&moduleIndex=3
> 
> while I type this Im all ears with ed9/finger eleven-paralyzed. Hope the edr2 de-throne my ed9? Let me see.jk


 
 Well to be honest I've now had 9 other KZ's try to dethrone my ED9's and all have come up short for me (for me be the key element here) but going to give these EDR2's a chance and my ACME's are yet to get here (obviously on that other sloooooow boat from China)! THX for the link Shawn, think I'll buy a bunch of those little Beats cases for my iem's so they never get stolen


----------



## crabdog

podster said:


> Well to be honest I've now had 9 other KZ's try to dethrone my ED9's and all have come up short for me (for me be the key element here) but going to give these EDR2's a chance and my ACME's are yet to get here (obviously on that other sloooooow boat from China)! THX for the link Shawn, think I'll buy a bunch of those little Beats cases for my iem's so they never get stolen


 
 LOL


----------



## Shawn71

podster said:


> Well to be honest I've now had 9 other KZ's try to dethrone my ED9's and all have come up short for me (for me be the key element here) but going to give these EDR2's a chance and my ACME's are yet to get here (obviously on that other sloooooow boat from China)! THX for the link Shawn, think I'll buy a bunch of those little Beats cases for my iem's so they never get stolen:evil:




lol beats case....just carabine it in your pant belt loop or back pack while you on NY sub.  thank me later.....

As I type this,(this time) my love with other iems are in jeopardy, yeah "greg kihn/jeopardy" song with just liittle above moderate volume, and what a lovely ss,crispy details,nice instrument seperation.....ooh thinking of getting jet black ed9.


----------



## Podster

shawn71 said:


> lol beats case....just carabine it in your pant belt loop or back pack while you on NY sub.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sweet, Greg Kihn band
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Going to test my EDR2's with Rush's "Grace Under Pressure"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 May I say the black ED9 is just gorgeous


----------



## EISENbricher

sylmar said:


> I also have to jump into the KZ brand. It would be nice if you could post some impressions when you get them.


 
 Welcome bro, you'd enjoy the journey.
  


james freeman said:


> I just ordered the ED9, ZN1 Mini, ATE-S as suggested in this thread.
> Hope they are better than AWEI Q3 or Philips SHE3590.


 
 Welcome to KZ thread : )  I've never listened to Q3 but I had SHE3590 and for sure KZ has a lot to offer over these. 
  


podster said:


> Well to be honest I've now had 9 other KZ's try to dethrone my ED9's and all have come up short for me (for me be the key element here) but going to give these EDR2's a chance and my ACME's are yet to get here (obviously on that other sloooooow boat from China)! THX for the link Shawn, think I'll buy a bunch of those little Beats cases for my iem's so they never get stolen


 
 Hahaah this is epic post xD
  
 I don't go finding for the best though, my priorities are different. I'd rather build an harem instead of finding the most beautiful beauty in the world


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> Sweet, Greg Kihn band
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Every time I see the black 9's I die a little inside : ( 
 Want to have these but already have the silver and broke lol
  
 Pod, friend no more pics of ED9 blacks


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I need to go listen to my EDR2 again...I don't remember being blown away by them.
> B9 what are you using as source and what type of music genre?




I love them. For me they replaced the ED9 and HDS1 and are a step above most every other KZ in overall sound quality and refinement. I run them either through my HTC One M8 with/without the NX1. Sometime through the Plantronics Rig USB amp. I listen primarily to liquid drum and bass, hip hop, and classic rock. Some metal and jazz.


----------



## Shawn71

podster said:


> Sweet, Greg Kihn band:wink_face: Going to test my EDR2's with Rush's "Grace Under Pressure" May I say the black ED( is just gorgeous:tongue_smile:




Nice oval case you got there pod!.....Im eyeing hz sound case for $2,they are too sexy and can hold palmy daps too and IEMs on the other pocket. Glad your picture didnt impress me as AE's "picture show down" . JK pod. And So I postpone my blk ed9 purchase for now.


----------



## Podster

shawn71 said:


> Nice oval case you got there pod!.....Im eyeing hz sound case for $2,they are too sexy and can hold palmy daps too and IEMs on the other pocket. Glad your picture didnt impress me as AE's "picture show down"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You're right, my phone does not take the best pictures for sure. This one does not do the black ED9 justice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now the case is da bomb
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Here it is (Middle front) with FiiO M3 and HCK UE's in it


----------



## Deb1995

WOW! Nice collection.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> There's a reason I've been saying the EDR2 are the best of the bunch for months now. Sound quality is great, and when you put price back into the equation the value you get is insane.


 

 OK B9, may have to give it to you on these babies as they do sound pretty good across the board and that's straight OOTB. I can only imagine 50-60 hours will settle them in and tighten them up even more
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What better first track than EDR2 Short
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## kiler

You gotta compare them to the ED9 then


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


>


 
  
 The Micro Rings...RIP.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> The Micro Rings...RIP.


 
  
 They really are flat out awesome. Maybe not as technically proficient as some of the newer KZs, but they have a signature that just clicks. It's so good! HDS2 is a poor substitute


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


>




There is something wrong with you man Now if that's not the kettle calling the pot black right


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> There is something wrong with you man Now if that's not the kettle calling the pot black right




I just like my KZs. You have to admit that this collection will make for a pretty good shootout


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> They really are flat out awesome. Maybe not as technically proficient as some of the newer KZs, but they have a signature that just clicks. It's so good! HDS2 is a poor substitute




True, I never seen a micro-dynamic successor from KZ to the micro-ring yet.(tho I never listened/owned them but based on some really good notes from users).....I regret not getting one,as I was venturing on something else back then and KZ brand was slowly climbing up the ladder here in head-fi,me little hesitant pulling the trigger on their model(s) being unknown brand,tbh.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I just like my KZs. You have to admit that this collection will make for a pretty good shootout




Absolutely One of the fun things with KZ's they are configurable and I'm not just filter models like ED9 but their uncanny ability to have seriously discern able differences just by rolling tips

Most have also opened up nicely between 50-60 hours for me, all pretty amazing for under $15 on average

For me in this hobby just listening on whatever rig I've put together is primary, having a better system is just awesomesauce


----------



## B9Scrambler

Shawn71 Totally understandable. I got them at the same time as my EDse. Those were my first two KZs. At the time the EDse was the big shot taking on the Piston 2, and the Micro Ring was just starting to disappear and become a little rare. Pretty sure I bought one of the Official KZ store's last pairs since they disappeared soon after and never came back.


----------



## Wokei

me think only few have the Micro Ring ....its a shame they did not get much love in the KZ line up .....


----------



## James Freeman

I created a plan (that doesn't suck) how to compare my in-ear headphones for you, you're in for a treat!
 *Wish I had *B9Scrambler* collection for this...


----------



## Ruben123

Hey friends

In my not ever ending search for a neutral earphone it came to mind that many of you found the Monoprice 8320 to be bright and anemic in bass response. Isnt that what most of you think about ED3 too? How do they compare? Is there anyone here who owns both and can help me out?


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> me think only few have the Micro Ring ....its a shame they did not get much love in the KZ line up .....


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Hey friends
> 
> In my not ever ending search for a neutral earphone it came to mind that many of you found the Monoprice 8320 to be bright and anemic in bass response. Isnt that what most of you think about ED3 too? How do they compare? Is there anyone here who owns both and can help me out?


 
  
 I can help with that! Personally I never found the 8320 bright, though at the time I got them I found bass to be lacking in quantity. Same with the ED3. Now, not so much.
  
 ED3 Perfection (aka. original) is definitely brighter. ED3 has more subbass, 8320 has more midbass. The ED3's extra upper end emphasis and thinner sound makes them seem more clear and detailed.
  
 I found mids on the ED3 to be slightly more forward. The 8320 mids are situated nicely between its bass and treble, never overshadowed, but sounds a bit veiled in comparison to the KZ.
  
 Soundstage width/height easily goes to the Monoprice, but depth to the ED3.
  
 Overall, I hear the Monoprice as having the flatter signature with the ED3 being on the brighter, more aggressive side of neutral. The Monoprice, in terms of refinement, sits somewhere between older KZs like the C56R and the ED3's generation. As a result I feel it sounds slightly less capable and dynamic, though it's neutrality is attractive. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, however, the 8320's cable is shameful. I'd take any of KZs cables, including the one on the DS (plasticy, stiff, and noisy), over the tangle monster that Monoprice chose for whatever reason.
  
 Hope this helps!


----------



## EISENbricher

ruben123 said:


> Hey friends
> 
> In my not ever ending search for a neutral earphone it came to mind that many of you found the Monoprice 8320 to be bright and anemic in bass response. Isnt that what most of you think about ED3 too? How do they compare? Is there anyone here who owns both and can help me out?


 
 Have you tried Havi B3? I have those, they have pretty flat response and realistic sound reproduction abilities with very good soundstage. Out of all my inventory they easily have the best positioning as well, making one wonder of the voice is directly coming from live source. 
  
 Sadly this signature is not of my type so it's been sitting in drawer long since.


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> Hey friends
> 
> In my not ever ending search for a neutral earphone it came to mind that many of you found the Monoprice 8320 to be bright and anemic in bass response. Isnt that what most of you think about ED3 too? How do they compare? Is there anyone here who owns both and can help me out?


 

 I can tell you my ED3c are certainly not _bright and anemic in bass response..._they have some impactful low end and a decent treble when you factor in price. Sure the bass doesn't hit like a full size can and treble can get ragged depending on material but for the price of admission these are one of my top favorite iem's hands down.


----------



## B9Scrambler

cadcam said:


> I can tell you my ED3c are certainly not _bright and anemic in bass response..._they have some impactful low end and a decent treble when you factor in price. Sure the bass doesn't hit like a full size can and treble can get ragged depending on material but for the price of admission these are one of my top favorite iem's hands down.




I think he was referring to the original when focuses more on mids and treble. Bass on those is not nearly as prominent as on the ED3c.


----------



## Gussisaurio

wokei said:


> KZ ANV


 
  
 Hi Wokei. Last year you posted the above picture. In the footprint it says it is the KZ ANV, but looking at the picture, over the earphone it says "pro" with brown letters. It is after the "CKW Pro" I suppose. However, I've seen pictures of the ANV that say "ANV" with blue letters. Are the CKW Pro and the KZ ANV the same earphones?, or you just posted the wrong picture for the ANV?
  

 (Picture from AliExpress)


----------



## Wokei

Gussisaurio...Me bad... Old age do that... Lol


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


>


 
  
 Time Capsule?......not to open until 2050?


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


>




Dat "μ ring" looks like a "tuna" caught and kept in a glass "apparatus" inside your lab?.......to me.


----------



## Ruben123

Too many replies to quote you all! Thanks a lot.
  
@B9Scrambler thanks for your intensive comparison. Unfortunately the ED3 standard doesnt sound as neutral as I understand, but what if one puts a little bit of cloth in the tip? The agressive treble should be less then. Would they sound more the same then?
  
@EISENbricher I already have the Havi  and use the MP8320 as a poor man's Havi. I baby my Havis because they were easily enough the most expensive in ears I have and dont want to break them lol. The Monoprices (here in EU) are almost as expensive as the Havi to get them here  $7 earphone but Amazon and eBay count $20-25 shipping for them. Still have one though but then I do baby the MPs too. Now I want some "spare" Monoprices or well more easy to get same-sounding earphones at that price. It seems quite hard lol
  
@CADCAM yep I meant the older ED3 
  
 @ all
 You can follow my search in my own thread, but of course if any of you has any recommendations... please share them!
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/802069/looking-for-10-neutral-china-iem-think-monoprice#post_12435213


----------



## EISENbricher

Ruben, just a tip. Ask anyone residing in US to get the MP and forward it to you with USPS. The most economical service costs $10, and comes with a tracking number. 

I've done this for getting my SoundSoul earphones as I faced the the similar issue.

I think there are some third party forwarding services available too, which would cost above $10 but lower than what MP asks.


----------



## Ruben123

eisenbricher said:


> Ruben, just a tip. Ask anyone residing in US to get the MP and forward it to you with USPS. The most economical service costs $10, and comes with a tracking number.
> 
> I've done this for getting my SoundSoul earphones as I faced the the similar issue.
> 
> I think there are some third party forwarding services available too, which would cost above $10 but lower than what MP asks.


 
 Thanks for that. If no alternative IEM comes up I think I will look at such a forwarding service.


----------



## Stl2ega

Hi, Can anyone compare SQ of KZ zs1,zs2,zn1 mini and VJJB V1, which one you guys prefer?


----------



## EISENbricher

stl2ega said:


> Hi, Can anyone compare SQ of KZ zs1,zs2,zn1 mini and VJJB V1, which one you guys prefer?


 
 All ZS1, ZN1 mini (and ZS2, as it might has same driver as ZS1) are bassier than V1. V1 has vertical soundstage while ZN1 mini has circular, enveloping soundstage and ZS1 has deep soundstage. Build quality wise V1 is nothing to talk about, it's poorly put together. 
 Among all these V1's fit is the most comfortable. 
  
 Well SQ wise IMO all are at same level with no particular huge difference. Just that V1 comparatively sounds more balanced than ZS1 (most bass presence) and ZN1 mini (above average bass presence).
  
 In very brief terms ZS1 has L-shaped FR, ZN1 mini is milder L-shape while V1 has mild V-shaped FR.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> All ZS1, ZN1 mini (and ZS2, as it might has same driver as ZS1) are bassier than V1. V1 has vertical soundstage while ZN1 mini has circular, enveloping soundstage and ZS1 has deep soundstage. Build quality wise V1 is nothing to talk about, it's poorly put together.
> Among all these V1's fit is the most comfortable.
> 
> Well SQ wise IMO all are at same level with no particular huge difference. Just that V1 comparatively sounds more balanced than ZS1 (most bass presence) and ZN1 mini (above average bass presence).
> ...




True, I don't think any of these are world beaters and sound relatively close in sound with the exception of the VJJB being more V shaped. For everyday I would wear the V1 over the ZS1, ZS2 or ZN1 Mini but not the original amped ZN1. To me in amp mode it's still sound best if the 4


----------



## Gussisaurio

wokei said:


> @Gussisaurio...Me bad... Old age do that... Lol


 

 Oh, good to know. Thanks!!!


----------



## kiler

1clearhead said:


> Time Capsule?......not to open until 2050?


 
 You should keep them hooked onto a source, so they could have had the ultimate burn in ^^


----------



## 1clearhead

kiler said:


> You should keep them hooked onto a source, so they could have had the ultimate burn in ^^


 
  
 Ha! That will definitely produce the ultimate clarity.


----------



## Stl2ega

eisenbricher said:


> All ZS1, ZN1 mini (and ZS2, as it might has same driver as ZS1) are bassier than V1. V1 has vertical soundstage while ZN1 mini has circular, enveloping soundstage and ZS1 has deep soundstage. Build quality wise V1 is nothing to talk about, it's poorly put together.
> Among all these V1's fit is the most comfortable.
> 
> Well SQ wise IMO all are at same level with no particular huge difference. Just that V1 comparatively sounds more balanced than ZS1 (most bass presence) and ZN1 mini (above average bass presence).
> ...







podster said:


> True, I don't think any of these are world beaters and sound relatively close in sound with the exception of the VJJB being more V shaped. For everyday I would wear the V1 over the ZS1, ZS2 or ZN1 Mini but not the original amped ZN1. To me in amp mode it's still sound best if the 4




How about ed9 vs ate???


----------



## EISENbricher

stl2ega said:


> How about ed9 vs ate???


 
 Comparison by @twister6 , one of my most trusted reviewers : http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/accessories/review-kz-ed9-kz-ate-ear-headphones-t3119184


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Too many replies to quote you all! Thanks a lot.
> 
> @B9Scrambler thanks for your intensive comparison. Unfortunately the ED3 standard doesnt sound as neutral as I understand, but what if one puts a little bit of cloth in the tip? The aggressive treble should be less then. Would they sound more the same then?


 
  
 I'm sure adding some filter material would help. If I've got any material that would work I'll let you know how it sounds.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Time Capsule?......not to open until 2050?


 
  
 Haha, that would be awesome. Toss a Micro Ring into a time capsule.
  


shawn71 said:


> Dat "μ ring" looks like a "tuna" caught and kept in a glass "apparatus" inside your lab?.......to me.


 
  
 Laser etched glass ftw!!


----------



## Pittas

Prices have gone really high on official kz on AE.
I m glad i got many models while prices were low.
The s3 are still at an affordable price below 10$.
They re also the most balanced of the bunch, according to my ears


----------



## EISENbricher

pittas said:


> Prices have gone really high on official kz on AE.
> I m glad i got many models while prices were low.
> The s3 are still at an affordable price below 10$.
> They re also the most balanced of the bunch, according to my ears


 
 Don't worry, it's just to show big discount percentages as AliExpress anniversary sale is starting. Actual prices actually would be even lower than the usual prices. Golden chance to get some KZ. 
  
 Here I gathered some data from KZ official store : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/1358152.html?origin=n&tagResultChecked=y
  

*Model*​*Price ($)*​*After Discount ($)*​ATE / ATE-S​19.97​7.99​ED4​14.25​6.84​ED9​18.54​8.9​EDSE​13.3​5.32​HDS1 (Mic)​17.12​7.53​HDS1 (No Mic)​15.69​6.9​HDS3​14.26​6.99​ZN1 mini​17.96​8.98​ZS1​31.6​15.8​ZS2​31.6​15.8​
  
 ZS1's price is even lower at Easy Earphone's shop on AliExpress. Just as a note.


----------



## 1clearhead

pittas said:


> Prices have gone really high on official kz on AE.
> I m glad i got many models while prices were low.
> The s3 are still at an affordable price below 10$.
> They re also the most balanced of the bunch, according to my ears


 

 +1  I can never say enough on how good the KZ-S3 has been vs. its' price bracket. I would say as well that the ED9 and ED11's are just as good for its' value. They are all quite balanced with the right tips.


----------



## reimontok

What why so expensive ?


----------



## EISENbricher

reimontok said:


> What why so expensive ?


 
 read post #10322


----------



## reimontok

eisenbricher said:


> read post #10322



 


oh i see, i think im gonna get the EDSE.
or maybe get again the ate, how is edse vs hds1 ?


----------



## EISENbricher

reimontok said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > read post #10322
> ...


 
 If you are thinking of getting EDSE then instead go for EDR2. It's an update of EDSE with similar but slightly upgraded sound and greatly improved build quality with same form factor. 
  
 EDSE is much heavier in weight and the metal used is prone to corrosion, especially the nozzle part. EDR2 is made of aluminium. 
  
 Get EDR2 at lowest price here : 
  
 Mic : http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316680.html
 Non Mic : http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316681.html


----------



## reimontok

eisenbricher said:


> If you are thinking of getting EDSE then instead go for EDR2. It's an update of EDSE with similar but slightly upgraded sound and greatly improved build quality with same form factor.
> 
> EDSE is much heavier in weight and the metal used is prone to corrosion, especially the nozzle part. EDR2 is made of aluminium.
> 
> ...



 


thanks, im gonna check it out tomorrow.


----------



## To.M

+1 EDR2 and yesterday came KZ ATE, after 8-hour of burn-in my first impressions are positive, warmer sound than EDR2, both pairs are very good


----------



## 1clearhead

Man, you guys are really tempting me to get the EDR2's. Are they really that good?


----------



## Ruben123

Edr2: neutral mids, slightly enhanced lows and highs. Yes they're very good for what they are.


----------



## 1clearhead

ruben123 said:


> Edr2: neutral mids, slightly enhanced lows and highs. Yes they're very good for what they are.



 
Sounds good!


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> Edr2: neutral mids, slightly enhanced lows and highs. Yes they're very good for what they are.


 

 So, they are slightly V-shaped rather than W-shaped signature? I`m personally more into W-shaped signature with good mids and slightly smoothed highs.
 Hope that I won`t be disappointed in EDR2 when they arrive... I`m kind of "tired" from typical mild-V-shaped IEM`s laterly, only thing that they seem to improve (or not) among this kind of IEM`s is bass tightness/clarity/response without improving in midrange but I guess for that one must move to higher tier IEM`s. 
 Like Eisen said - KZ should move to another level with DDD or DD+BA configuration.


----------



## EISENbricher

Yup, right time to move to next level. Or at least design a true 'flagship' kz.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> So, they are slightly V-shaped rather than W-shaped signature? I`m personally more into W-shaped signature with good mids and slightly smoothed highs.
> Hope that I won`t be disappointed in EDR2 when they arrive... I`m kind of "tired" from typical mild-V-shaped IEM`s laterly, only thing that they seem to improve (or not) among this kind of IEM`s is bass tightness/clarity/response without improving in midrange but I guess for that one must move to higher tier IEM`s.
> Like Eisen said - KZ should move to another level with DDD or DD+BA configuration.




Theyre only mildly v shaped. I compare it to my very natural speakers and it has a bit more bass, good mids, smooth highs though the extension is a bit lifted. A bit is the crucial word here. They're really good coil (buy not my cup of tea)


----------



## EISENbricher

Okay, there is indeed a crossover network in the ZS1. I was under impression that the speakers were just parallel connected. But one of the drivers carry a crossover network consisted of some SMD components, on its back.


----------



## CoiL

Can You take some pics? What about ZN1mini?


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Can You take some pics? What about ZN1mini?


 
 Yeah ... 
  
 Here's ZS1, clearly you can see some components inside : 
  

  
  
  
 And ZN1 mini... only drivers and no components spotted :


----------



## CoiL

Hmmm, interesting if ZS1 crossovers are related to using amp they have (tuned accordingly)? As much I know, they use same drivers with ZN1mini?


----------



## vegetaleb

With the incoming promotions on the ZS1 and ZS2 (13$ at Easy) I am tempted to get one, though I am eager to know if ZS2 is really the same as ZS1, because I prefer the black look of the ZS1, the ZS2 looks like a toy in blue.
 My ATES are stranded in Shenzen since Saturday :/


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Hmmm, interesting if ZS1 crossovers are related to using amp they have (tuned accordingly)? As much I know, they use same drivers with ZN1mini?


 
 Almost sure that the drivers are different. Even if we assume that the driver with PCB on back is same on both ZS1 and ZN1 mini, the other driver still has some differences. For example the ZS1 driver shows metal backside mesh while both drivers in ZN1 mini have cloth/fabric mesh.
  
 I'm still not very convinced about ZS1's tuning. KZ needs little more experimenting. The drivers are very capable, demonstrating great timbre, awesome soundstage. When EQed ZS1 is a monster. Everything pointing to a fact that a minor tuning job by KZ would greatly improve ZS1.


----------



## EISENbricher

Just from observation.... KZ ZN1 mini contains exactly following drivers : 
  
 ----------------------------------------
 6.8mm:  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-Pair-Original-KZ-Headphones-6-8mm-Speaker-Unit-For-DIY-HIFI-Subwoofer-Earphone-DIY-Bass/1825606_32447080083.html
  
 8mm: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-Pair-Original-KZ-Headphones-8mm-Speaker-Unit-For-DIY-Headset-Headphone-DIY-Headphone-Speaker-Accessories/1825606_32446034664.html
 -----------------------------------------
  
 I wonder if KZ has any of their earphone using their own 10mm driver here : http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-Pair-Original-KZ-Headphones-8mm-Speaker-Unit-For-DIY-Headset-Headphone-DIY-Headphone-Speaker-Accessories/1825606_32437915048.html
  
 Any idea about this?


----------



## CoiL

eisenbricher said:


> Just from observation.... KZ ZN1 mini contains exactly following drivers :
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> 6.8mm:  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-Pair-Original-KZ-Headphones-6-8mm-Speaker-Unit-For-DIY-HIFI-Subwoofer-Earphone-DIY-Bass/1825606_32447080083.html
> ...


 
 Not sure these are drivers used in ZN1 since they were available long before ZN1. The second one should be ATE drivers and 6.8mm ones used in ED9 if I`m not mistaken.


----------



## vegetaleb

ZS1 = ZS2?


----------



## seanwee

Just ordered a EDR2 from shenzhen audio so i have a pair of iems that i can stuff in my pockets without impunity as they are dirt cheap .
  
 Problem is it will take 30-40 days to arrive.


----------



## kiler

You got a lot of IEMS to destroy until then ^^ 
  
 Why not order a carrying case while you are at it? :b


----------



## EISENbricher

vegetaleb said:


> ZS1 = ZS2?


 
 Yup.


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Yup.




Ding, ding ding, wr have a winner


----------



## reimontok

today i got the hds3, and they are nearly close to what i like, they have the bass i was looking in the hds1, the only thing i didnt like, is the cable


----------



## Fedy7

Hi there!
I really tried to figure out what KZs are best for me, but there's so many models of them (too many, including all that redesign thing..) and so many different opinions. So I chose the easy way))

What KZs are best for mostly mid to low freq, but still universal, classic style body (not like ATEs)) and good quality? 
Sorry for my english, thanks)

P.S. I really like the look of ED-line with that net at the end.But I can't find a good difference chart between them


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> Not sure these are drivers used in ZN1 since they were available long before ZN1. The second one should be ATE drivers and 6.8mm ones used in ED9 if I`m not mistaken.




And the same second one (8mm) is used in ZN1 too.......


----------



## Ruben123

fedy7 said:


> Hi there!
> I really tried to figure out what KZs are best for me, but there's so many models of them (too many, including all that redesign thing..) and so many different opinions. So I chose the easy way))
> 
> What KZs are best for mostly mid to low freq, but still universal, classic style body (not like ATEs)) and good quality?
> ...




You might take a look at rock zircon. Kz ed8 should have great bass though due to their weight I can't really advise you them if there is also the much loved rock zircon.


----------



## trellus

reimontok said:


> today i got the hds3, and they are nearly close to what i like, they have the bass i was looking in the hds1, the only thing i didnt like, is the cable




Got mine yesterday and enjoying the hell out of them, bass is clean and tight and THERE. Might need to buy some third-party tips, though as the large tip in my left ear is just very slightly looser than is perfect for me.


----------



## crabdog

trellus said:


> Got mine yesterday and enjoying the hell out of them, bass is clean and tight and THERE. Might need to buy some third-party tips, though as the large tip in my left ear is just very slightly looser than is perfect for me.


 
 Yep kz tips seem built for midgets.


----------



## B9Scrambler

fedy7 said:


> Hi there!
> I really tried to figure out what KZs are best for me, but there's so many models of them (too many, including all that redesign thing..) and so many different opinions. So I chose the easy way))
> 
> What KZs are best for mostly mid to low freq, but still universal, classic style body (not like ATEs)) and good quality?
> ...


 
  
 ED8 is great, but as @Ruben123 mentioned size and weight can be an issue. Wearing them with the cable over-ear definitely helps.
  
 ED3c "The Acme" (the blue/red one) is also good. Really warm, lots of bass, clean mids, relaxed treble with just enough detail and clarity.
  
 ED10 is similar to the ED8 but with slightly less sub-bass and better treble extension. Outputs tight and punchy bass but could be deemed bright without small bore tips. Shape is a little odd, but still very comfy.
  
 ED3c would be my top recommendation if you are averse to treble. ED8 otherwise. They're very under-appreciated.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> ED8 is great, but as @Ruben123
> mentioned size and weight can be an issue. Wearing them with the cable over-ear definitely helps.
> 
> ED3c "The Acme" (the blue/red one) is also good. Really warm, lots of bass, clean mids, relaxed treble with just enough detail and clarity.
> ...



Rightly said about ED8. 
Overcoming the size and weight issues it's the top KZ when it comes to bass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Rightly said about ED8.
> Overcoming the size and weight issues it's the top KZ when it comes to bass.




Yup. Such a great KZ. The jack on mine just went this week (my b) so I ordered another one. I don't use them often but when I do it's a treat.


----------



## EISENbricher

coil said:


> Not sure these are drivers used in ZN1 since they were available long before ZN1. The second one should be ATE drivers and 6.8mm ones used in ED9 if I`m not mistaken.



Which one is ATE driver? The 10mm one? 

Yup agree abt ED9. 

Btw I think they wouldn't design totally new drivers for ZN1. If they already have nice sounding 6.8mm and 8mm drivers they'll go and make a DD containing both these, as I assume happened with ZN1.


----------



## Pavapizza

hi guys. just joined the forum.
  
 just wanted to share my KZ experience. i have the KZ LP3, which is a big jump for me considering i only use cheap boomy bassy IEM and headphones. i like how the sound is bright and open but still have enough bass (especially if you press the earcups more). the only gripe is the headband which is very flimsy and brittle.
  
 right now im wanting to buy another KZ product, im considering between ATE or ZN1 mini. i prefer my sound to be crisp and clear but still has punchy bass. which is more suited for me? any recommendation are welcomed.


----------



## Ruben123

pavapizza said:


> hi guys. just joined the forum.
> 
> just wanted to share my KZ experience. i have the KZ LP3, which is a big jump for me considering i only use cheap boomy bassy IEM and headphones. i like how the sound is bright and open but still have enough bass (especially if you press the earcups more). the only gripe is the headband which is very flimsy and brittle.
> 
> right now im wanting to buy another KZ product, im considering between ATE or ZN1 mini. i prefer my sound to be crisp and clear but still has punchy bass. which is more suited for me? any recommendation are welcomed.


 

 EDR2 !!!!! Or ED10. Or ED9 with two different filters and because of that two different sounds.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> EDR2 !!!!! Or ED10. Or ED9 with two different filters and because of that two different sounds.




+ many on these recommendations.


----------



## EISENbricher

Yup, ATE and ZN1 mini both have darkish sound signature. Good alternatives by Ruben.


----------



## To.M

both ATE (testing them for 3 days) and EDR2 (over a week) are great, EDR2 are brighter and crispier, ATE have bigger soundstage, just thinking should I try any other pair by KZ or these two are enough?


----------



## EISENbricher

to.m said:


> both ATE (testing them for 3 days) and EDR2 (over a week) are great, EDR2 are brighter and crispier, ATE have bigger soundstage, just thinking should I try any other pair by KZ or these two are enough?



ED10 and ED8m are pretty unique in that regard. You won't want to miss those if you love bass.


----------



## Pavapizza

Thanks for the recommendations. Im more incline to ed9 now. What about hds 1 2 or 3?


----------



## crabdog

pavapizza said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. Im more incline to ed9 now. What about hds 1 2 or 3?


 
 The HDS2 is a strange beast. It has fantastic sound clarity and detail but is light on bass and sub bass is almost nonexistent. The nozzles are also HUGE which makes tip rolling near impossible. I don't have the 1 or 3.


----------



## wastan

pavapizza said:


> hi guys. just joined the forum.
> 
> just wanted to share my KZ experience. i have the KZ LP3, which is a big jump for me considering i only use cheap boomy bassy IEM and headphones. i like how the sound is bright and open but still have enough bass (especially if you press the earcups more). the only gripe is the headband which is very flimsy and brittle.
> 
> right now im wanting to buy another KZ product, im considering between ATE or ZN1 mini. i prefer my sound to be crisp and clear but still has punchy bass. which is more suited for me? any recommendation are welcomed.


 yeah, the lp3 is underrated. You can get better bass performance if you replace the large foam cushions with pleather. I found some for about $3 on Amazon. If you really like the lp3 sound, I'd suggest the joyroom 107 instead of a kz.


----------



## Gussisaurio

pittas said:


> Prices have gone really high on official kz on AE.
> I m glad i got many models while prices were low.
> The s3 are still at an affordable price below 10$.
> They re also the most balanced of the bunch, according to my ears


 

 I can't find the S3 below USD$10. Could you please share the link?
 Thanks.


----------



## Gussisaurio

vegetaleb said:


> With the incoming promotions on the ZS1 and ZS2 (13$ at Easy) I am tempted to get one, though I am eager to know if ZS2 is really the same as ZS1, because I prefer the black look of the ZS1, the ZS2 looks like a toy in blue.
> My ATES are stranded in Shenzen since Saturday :/


 
 Could you please provide a link to the $13 ZS1 and ZS2 on Easy. What is Easy, by the way?
 Thanks!!!


----------



## Pavapizza

wastan said:


> yeah, the lp3 is underrated. You can get better bass performance if you replace the large foam cushions with pleather. I found some for about $3 on Amazon. If you really like the lp3 sound, I'd suggest the joyroom 107 instead of a kz.


 can you please share the link? For both the pleather and joyroom 107. Thanks.


----------



## Nafis

gussisaurio said:


> Could you please provide a link to the $13 ZS1 and ZS2 on Easy. What is Easy, by the way?
> Thanks!!!


100%Original KZ ZS1 In-ear Earphone Dual Dynamic Driver Subwoofer Doble Unit Hifi Monitor Headphones Headset With Mic
http://s.aliexpress.com/Ez2aABvU

Easy Earphones and headphones Co. Ltd. Is the name of the store on Aliexpress.


----------



## Nafis

2016 New KZ ZS2 In-Ear Earphone Dual Driver Hifi Headphones Earphone Original KZ-ZS2 Headset Bass Earbuds With Mic Wholesale
http://s.aliexpress.com/AR7b2iiE


----------



## Nafis

pavapizza said:


> can you please share the link? For both the pleather and joyroom 107. Thanks.


 100% Original Joyroom E107 In Ear Earphone 3.5MM Stereo In Ear Headset Dynamic Headphone Aerospace aluminum alloy Earphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/Eru2yi6b


----------



## Gussisaurio

nafis said:


> 100%Original KZ ZS1 In-ear Earphone Dual Dynamic Driver Subwoofer Doble Unit Hifi Monitor Headphones Headset With Mic
> http://s.aliexpress.com/Ez2aABvU
> 
> Easy Earphones and headphones Co. Ltd. Is the name of the store on Aliexpress.


 
  
  


nafis said:


> 2016 New KZ ZS2 In-Ear Earphone Dual Driver Hifi Headphones Earphone Original KZ-ZS2 Headset Bass Earbuds With Mic Wholesale
> http://s.aliexpress.com/AR7b2iiE


 

 Thanks. They are both currently at USD$20. But they are advertising a sale on March 29th. Let's hope the prices go down below to $13 on that date!!!


----------



## EISENbricher

gussisaurio said:


> Thanks. They are both currently at USD$20. But they are advertising a sale on March 29th. Let's hope the prices go down below to $13 on that date!!!


if you see the page via AliExpress Android app then you get to see the discounted prices as well.


----------



## DD DaKurlzz

Hey guys what do you think about KZ ZN1 Smart HiFi?


----------



## EISENbricher

dd dakurlzz said:


> Hey guys what do you think about KZ ZN1 Smart HiFi?



Apart from its bulky amp module, the earphone as a whole is pretty good sounding one. You have choice of ZN1 mini if you don't need the amp box.


----------



## Podster

pavapizza said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. Im more incline to ed9 now. What about hds 1 2 or 3?




If I were to make a suggestion for KZ's at this point out of my 10 pairs of KZ and to give you great options in signatures I would recommend ED9, ZN1 Mini and the EDR2 This is just my opinion but shopped right these can be had for around $36 and would give you excellent options


----------



## EISENbricher

podster said:


> If I were to make a suggestion for KZ's at this point out of my 10 pairs of KZ and to give you great options in signatures I would recommend ED9, ZN1 Mini and the EDR2 This is just my opinion but shopped right these can be had for around $36 and would give you excellent options



This sums up everything. Top class KZs. 
I would be ordering a backup ZN1 mini in 29th sale. It's my most favorite KZ till now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> If I were to make a suggestion for KZ's at this point out of my 10 pairs of KZ and to give you great options in signatures I would recommend ED9, ZN1 Mini and the EDR2 This is just my opinion but shopped right these can be had for around $36 and would give you excellent options




Can't argue with this. The only other KZ I would happily add to that list is the ED3c as an alternative to the ZN1 Mini. Similar signature, more traditional design/fit.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> Can't argue with this. The only other KZ I would happily add to that list is the ED3c as an alternative to the ZN1 Mini. Similar signature, more traditional design/fit.


 
 I was going to post the same...to add the ED3c to that list because it continues to impress me.
  
 Still have love for my ED9 but the ED3c is a great iem and for so little $$
  
 Never tried the ZN1 mini because I could never get my ZS1 to fit properly


----------



## crabdog

Well I've been spending some more time with the HDS2 and they were growing on me somewhat until...just now I thought I'd plug them into my pc to watch some video with and got a really nasty shock in the right side. This is the same thing I get with my ED9, except that one does it on the left side.
  
 Really quite disappointed about it and for now I probably won't bother buying any more KZ. Maybe in the future if they have some new products I'll give them another go. Note this only happens on my pc and laptop. It doesn't occur when using my Note 5 or XDuoo X2. I'm surprised that noone else has experienced this with KZ products, that is assuming I'm not the only one who has plugged them into a computer. This does not happen with my ROCK Zircon, MEE Audio M6 Pro or VE Monk.


----------



## B9Scrambler

crabdog said:


> Well I've been spending some more time with the HDS2 and they were growing on me somewhat until...just now I thought I'd plug them into my pc to watch some video with and got a really nasty shock in the right side. This is the same thing I get with my ED9, except that one does it on the left side.


 
  
 I get shocked by a few different iems; Titan 1 (this thing is the worst for shocks!!), ED10, SUR s808, etc. I'm a naturally dry and conductive person, so it's just par for the course for me, haha. That said, the ED9 and HDS2 have been fine in that regard.


----------



## CADCAM

b9scrambler said:


> I get shocked by a few different iems; Titan 1 (this thing is the worst for shocks!!), ED10, SUR s808, etc. I'm a naturally dry and conductive person, so it's just par for the course for me, haha. That said, the ED9 and HDS2 have been fine in that regard.


 
 My sister also conducts electricity like no one else I know and sends it into the first object she comes in contact with. She can shock you without even have been walking on carpet. People see her coming and walk on the other side of the hallway at her work. I believe some people are just more...conductive


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> My sister also conducts electricity like no one else I know and sends it into the first object she comes in contact with. She can shock you without even have been walking on carpet. People see her coming and walk on the other side of the hallway at her work. I believe some people are just more...conductive :eek:




All I can say to these observations is...........Shocking


----------



## crabdog

podster said:


> All I can say to these observations is...........Shocking


 
 Ohh lol. I should have seen that coming.


----------



## 1clearhead

Wow!......All the recent comments made here were *electrifying*!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ........I'm also a victim of shock syndrome!


----------



## Gussisaurio

dd dakurlzz said:


> Hey guys what do you think about KZ ZN1 Smart HiFi?


 
 Mine is on order. I'll tell you later.


----------



## Gussisaurio

eisenbricher said:


> if you see the page via AliExpress Android app then you get to see the discounted prices as well.


 
 Oh, yes, On iOS it shows $14 and $16. Does it show below $13 on Android? Is it cheaper buying on Android?


----------



## Gussisaurio

crabdog said:


> Well I've been spending some more time with the HDS2 and they were growing on me somewhat until...just now I thought I'd plug them into my pc to watch some video with and got a really nasty shock in the right side. This is the same thing I get with my ED9, except that one does it on the left side.
> 
> Really quite disappointed about it and for now I probably won't bother buying any more KZ. Maybe in the future if they have some new products I'll give them another go. Note this only happens on my pc and laptop. It doesn't occur when using my Note 5 or XDuoo X2. I'm surprised that noone else has experienced this with KZ products, that is assuming I'm not the only one who has plugged them into a computer. This does not happen with my ROCK Zircon, MEE Audio M6 Pro or VE Monk.


 
  
 Hi crabdog. It is not the earphones. It is the electrical grounding. It seems you are physically connected to the ground, then the ground from your audio device shorts with your physical ground. It is not your earphones fault. It is the nature of electricity. It happens the same thing to me with my Apple computer. If I am barefoot and I touch my Mac when it is plugged to the electrical outlet, I get shocks!!! If I disconnect the Mac from the outlet, I can work barefooted. Try it. But please don't blame the earphones, its physics!!!!


----------



## Gussisaurio

Hi Guys.
 Does any one of you own the TUNA Micro Ring: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-DEL-mobile-phone-earphones-heavy-bass-sport-HIFI-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets-music/1478574098.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.261.Nbh0AY
  
 Does any one of you who own the KZ Micro Ring can tell if both are the same?
 I never had the KZ Micro Ring. It is out of stock now and I was thinking probably this TUNA Micro Ring is the same.
  
 Thanks


----------



## B9Scrambler

gussisaurio said:


> Hi Guys.
> Does any one of you own the TUNA Micro Ring: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-DEL-mobile-phone-earphones-heavy-bass-sport-HIFI-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets-music/1478574098.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.261.Nbh0AY
> 
> Does any one of you who own the KZ Micro Ring can tell if both are the same?
> ...




Those are apparently pretty good. A few members have/had them. They went for 16 USD for most of last year. I've had them in my wish list for as long as I can remember, but never ended up buying them. Maybe one day...


----------



## EISENbricher

I'm that kind of conducive person. Most people get nasty shock from touching me whenever there is carpet/furry clothes around. 

That said, I get that shock from ED9. It's because of bad earthing on PC side, as well as some ED9's wire is connected to body. This may be a qc issue from KZ side. 

In this regard a plastic bodied or paint coated metal earphone would go well.


----------



## Gussisaurio

b9scrambler said:


> Those are apparently pretty good. A few members have/had them. They went for 16 USD for most of last year. I've had them in my wish list for as long as I can remember, but never ended up buying them. Maybe one day...


 

 Will be at USD$18 on next sale. Probably will pull the trigger. Thanks.


----------



## wastan

pavapizza said:


> can you please share the link? For both the pleather and joyroom 107. Thanks.




Here are the pads. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MA78S8M/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1458944366&sr=1&keywords=Leegoal+ear+pads


----------



## Wokei

gussisaurio said:


> Hi Guys.
> Does any one of you own the TUNA Micro Ring: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-DEL-mobile-phone-earphones-heavy-bass-sport-HIFI-noise-cancelling-in-ear-headsets-music/1478574098.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.261.Nbh0AY
> 
> Does any one of you who own the KZ Micro Ring can tell if both are the same?
> ...




They are not KZ Micro Ring... IMHO if you Google Sidy HK1... You will find them similar looking.... They sound pretty good for 16$ USD.. Cheers


----------



## Gussisaurio

wokei said:


> They are not KZ Micro Ring... IMHO if you Google Sidy HK1... You will find them similar looking.... They sound pretty good for 16$ USD.. Cheers


 

 Thanks Wokei. I'll add them to my shopping list.


----------



## rmatech

Recieved my Zs1 IEMs a few days back and was dissappointed to hear that the bass was nothing exceptional and very similar to my xiaomi hybrids. Overall nice sounding earphone but was expecting much more from the bass side, am I missing something?


----------



## B9Scrambler

rmatech said:


> Recieved my Zs1 IEMs a few days back and was dissappointed to hear that the bass was nothing exceptional and very similar to my xiaomi hybrids. Overall nice sounding earphone but was expecting much more from the bass side, am I missing something?




Sounds like the bass aspect is missing  Are you running stock tips because they kinda ruin the experience imo? I suggest something such as, or similar to, JVC's stock wide bores.


----------



## tusharthegamer

got this message from zenith store...
  
  

```
[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)] Hi My Dear Friend For a long time without your news,I hope everything goes well with you and your family. I am glad to tell you,The Big Sale Day: 29 March is coming,you can visit our Shop,we have add more new Earphones and Headphones on our store. And All Items will be 30% off, the up to 90% Off on 29-3 Mar. So waitting for your coming and Add your favorite Earphone and Headphone to your "Shopping Cart". I am looking forward to service for you Again. This link is a new shop about us, we hope that our cooperation once again. You can click on the link below: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1707532 OR Search " QKZ " to Find our store !! Welcome to our shop to choose your product and add products to your shopping cart. Best Wishes Anna Kay[/color]
```
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1707532
  
  
 Seems like big sale is coming !!!


----------



## Ruben123

tusharthegamer said:


> got this message from zenith store...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Qkz?????


----------



## crabdog

tusharthegamer said:


> got this message from zenith store...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice find! I'm actually starting to be afraid of the upcoming sale. It sounds like it will be epic. I hope I don't starve next month!


----------



## Zeebit

What is this QKZ brand about?


----------



## kiler

crabdog said:


> Nice find! I'm actually starting to be afraid of the upcoming sale. It sounds like it will be epic. I hope I don't starve next month!


 
 Stock up on ramen so you can have good IEM's


----------



## vegetaleb

The sales are gonna be only on the app? why not on PC?


----------



## AhmedouviX

what do you recommend to get on the coming sale?


----------



## Gussisaurio

zeebit said:


> What is this QKZ brand about?


 

 No one knows. It's a mystery. But apparently not related to KZ.


----------



## tusharthegamer

gussisaurio said:


> No one knows. It's a mystery. But apparently not related to KZ.


 
 i got ed 3 and the box says QKZ on top ! i think its the same brand


----------



## vegetaleb

Happy Easter everybody!
 My ATES arrived in my country but they didn't pass customs yet,though I think I will get them next week.
 Should I get the ZS1 (13$) or they are not superior to ATES?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Posted this in the Chinese/Asian Brand thread. Figured it would be relevant on the KZ thread.
  


crabdog said:


> Can anyone give a comparison of the ZN1 mini / ATE vs QKZ W1 Pro?


 
  
 Here we go! ZS1 also included per request from @vegetaleb
  
 Relevant information; I'm a very low volume listener. This test was run straight out of my Asus G73 using this mix primarily. That plus I have many hours on each iem anyway with a variety of other songs, genres, and sources (HTC One M8 and Topping NX1 primarily). That past experience will also be taken into account.
  
 W1 Pro using large UE600 tips. ATE using large silicones very similar to stock, but with softer material. ZN1 Mini using medium UE600 tips. ZS1 using random mushroom-shaped medium silicones.
  
 All four iems are warm sounding, with the W1/ATE being the least warm, ZS1 being most warm.
  
 Everything here is my opinion. I know there will be disagreement. Awesome! That's what a forum is for.
  
 Finally, my ATE is not the stompy bass monster that everyone in the KZ thread seems to have. Every one I've listened to/own (had 4 run through my possession, own 2) has been mostly mid-centric with early roll off on both ends. I've been using the ATE a lot recently and have noticed bass quantity increasing slightly, so there's that. *shrug*. I'm thinking they benefit from a long period of use.
  
*Bass Quantity: ZS1 > ZN1 > W1 > ATE*
  
 ZS1 easily takes the cake here. Bass is massive, digs deep, and kicks hard. ZN1 is more mid-bassy and tames down the sub-bass but still has plenty of both. Not a huge fan of the ZN1 since it sounds like a neutered ZS1. W1 is much less bassy with more focus on a nice thumpy low end. ATE is similar, but with less sub-bass.
  
*Bass Quality: W1 > ZN1 > ATE > ZS1*
  
 Bass on the W1 is the tightest of the bunch with the most control and a really pleasing texture. It doesn't skimp anywhere either. The ZS1's bass is exceptionally thumpy and deep, giving you an awesome club feel. It is a little too smoothed over though. The ATE's bass is a little anemic in comparison, but it has great texture and is super tight. The ZN1 finds a nice balance between the two, offering up the snappy feeling of the ATE but with more presence.My favorite is the ZS1, even if it isn't the best.
  
*Mids: ATE > W1 > ZN1 = ZS1*
  
 The mids of the ATE are glorious. Forward, detailed, smoothed, and in no way veiled. The W1 offers up much of the same, but with a bit less warmth and a touch of crispiness in the upper regions. I find the ZN1 and ZS1 nearly identical here, you just have to turn down the bass on the ZS1 to let their mids shine. All are quite good, but the ATE is a step above.
  
*Treble: ATE > ZN1 > ZS1 > W1*
  
 To my surprise, I ended up preferring the ATE here. I found it offered up the most detail and was the cleanest of the bunch. The ZN1 and ZS1 were again very similar, but the ZN1's greater treble energy won out. The W1 wasn't bad by any means, but it wasn't as smooth as the others, though detail and clarity were up there with the ATE. I have low tolerance for any splashiness, something KZ has done a good job of cleaning up with recent releases.
  
*Build Quality: ZS1 > W1 > ZN1 > ATE*
  
 The W1, like the others, uses plastic for the housings. While the plastic is of lower quality than on the ZN1/ZS1, fit and finish is flawless. The cable is easily the best of the bunch as well; smooth, flexible, lacking memory, and removable. The ZS1 and ZN1 are nigh identical, save for the cable and sharp edges on the ZN1 that the ZS1 is lacking. Personal preference; I like the ZS1's high quality memory wire and normal cable length. The ZN1's cable is exceptionally thick and durable, but very short and not as flexible as the competition. This contributes to a low standing in the next category. The ATE is just fine all around. housing plastic feels a bit cheap, the housing but the gap between the two pieces looks subpar. The cable is typical KZ. Good strain relief, low on memory, but a bit sticky. 
  
*Comfort: ZS1 = ATE, W1, ZN1*
  
 My current tips and properly bended memory wire on the ZS1 means they nearly disappear in my ears. I can wear them for hours, no problem. The ATE is pretty much the same, sans memory wire. The W1 I had tons of issues with at first. Once I found the right tips things were greatly improved. Still, wearing them with glasses and a hat can be annoying due to the memory wire (which is vastly superior on the ZS1) and I end up fiddling with fitment consistently. The ZN1.....where do I start? At first I couldn't get them to stay at all. Due to the lack of memory wire the tips I use on the ZS1 didn't work and they kept popping out. The housing also has a sharp edge where the two halves meet and it roughs up my ear. I ca't use the ZN1 on the move, and my source must be very close due to the wire length. Inconvenient...
  
*Overall: ATE > ZS1 > W1 > ZN1*
  
 The ATE offers up a nice balance of everything. The "okay" bass presentation and sticky cable aren't issues at all. While the ZS1 isn't really as good as the competition sound wise, it gives me an experience that the others can match, and still put a stupid grin on my face whenever I listen to them. Plus, their comfort is sublime. The W1 offers the most features and is the cheapest of the bunch with the best cable. Sound quality is competitive but are lacking a bit in upper end refinement. Comfort is also so-so. The ZN1 sounds great, but I just can't wear them for any real length of time. I would put them behind the ATE otherwise.
  
 *Sidenote: The ZN1 and ZS1 can be eq'd to sound nigh identical. They are both very receptive to minor adjustments, the ZN1 slightly more so. Good choices if you enjoying messing around with an equalizer.*
  
 Hope someone found this informative and helpful! Thanks for reading
  
 - B9Scrambler


----------



## Gussisaurio

crabdog said:


> Well I've been spending some more time with the HDS2 and they were growing on me somewhat until...just now I thought I'd plug them into my pc to watch some video with and got a really nasty shock in the right side. This is the same thing I get with my ED9, except that one does it on the left side.
> 
> Really quite disappointed about it and for now I probably won't bother buying any more KZ. Maybe in the future if they have some new products I'll give them another go. Note this only happens on my pc and laptop. It doesn't occur when using my Note 5 or XDuoo X2. I'm surprised that noone else has experienced this with KZ products, that is assuming I'm not the only one who has plugged them into a computer. This does not happen with my ROCK Zircon, MEE Audio M6 Pro or VE Monk.


 

 Hi again crabdog, please read the following concerning your shock problem:
  


> *Static Electricity Discharge through IEM*
> 
> 
> > _It is possible to experience a static electricity discharge though IEM.
> ...


----------



## vapman

Anyone  ever recabled their KZ ATE?
  
 The memory wire drives me INSANE. It tangles if you look at it the wrong way. The only part of these IEMs I hate.
  
 Hoping they will benefit sound-wise from a cable upgrade too.


----------



## crabdog

gussisaurio said:


> Hi again crabdog, please read the following concerning your shock problem:



Thanks for the info but it doesn't seem like a static charge, it's like a constant and makes them impossible to use with my pc. No big deal I'll just use ones that don't do it and keep the others for using with my DAP.


----------



## Nafis

b9scrambler said:


> Posted this in the Chinese/Asian Brand thread. Figured it would be relevant on the KZ thread.
> 
> 
> Here we go! ZS1 also included per request from @vegetaleb
> ...


+1 Great job!


----------



## Chief Stringer

I know this is a KZ thread but can anyone compare the bass quantity and overall sound quality of the Xiaomi Hybrids to the ed9s or 10s?


----------



## CoiL

vapman said:


> Anyone  ever recabled their KZ ATE?
> 
> The memory wire drives me INSANE. It tangles if you look at it the wrong way. The only part of these IEMs I hate.
> 
> Hoping they will benefit sound-wise from a cable upgrade too.


 

 Yep! It`s easy job. Here`s my ATE FF-mod with "IE800" cable:

 Can`t say it affects SQ but comfort is way better!


----------



## vapman

coil said:


> Yep! It`s easy job. Here`s my ATE FF-mod with "IE800" cable:
> 
> Can`t say it affects SQ but comfort is way better!


 

 That rules! I thought it would be an easy one. I'll do this this weekend.


----------



## CoiL

Search pictorial guide how to open ATE in this thread gallery before You start


----------



## xrM

Any recommendations for tips to go along with kz's on aliexpress?


----------



## tusharthegamer

xrm said:


> Any recommendations for tips to go along with kz's on aliexpress?


 
  
 Start with ed9 and hsd1 (most balanced sound) , ed3 for heavy bass , ATE for all round SQ.


----------



## Gussisaurio

Hey, everybody. Come the AliExpress sale tonight, please post here the best sale offers you find. Please!!!


----------



## WEST91436

tusharthegamer said:


> got this message from zenith store...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does anyone know if KZ has an official website, or they just sell on third party websites.
  
 Trying to reach someone at their corporate office.
  
*tusharthegamer...... is it possible you can pass on Anna Kay's email address?*


----------



## kiler

If big sales really come, maybe it is time to try the whole KZ lineup :b


----------



## bhazard

chief stringer said:


> I know this is a KZ thread but can anyone compare the bass quantity and overall sound quality of the Xiaomi Hybrids to the ed9s or 10s?


 
 Those KZ models are better than the hybrids.
  
 I love Xiaomi, but I am extremely disappointed with their hybrids. Very muddy, treble drop off, little detail.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> ED8 is great, but as @Ruben123 mentioned size and weight can be an issue. Wearing them with the cable over-ear definitely helps.
> 
> ED3c "The Acme" (the blue/red one) is also good. Really warm, lots of bass, clean mids, relaxed treble with just enough detail and clarity.
> 
> ...


 

 Well these are my last two KZ's, I must say I prefer the ACME over the EDR2's but neither oust my ED9's! Of course this is just me and my old ears, I mean I've been sitting here listening to my ZN1 Mini's for a few hours on 4 sets of tips and all four pair make the ZN's sound different from muddled bass to boomy bass to my chosen tips that I've gone back to now because they make these iem's sound even across the board
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With that said even my best tips can make these Mini's sound congested if over driven


----------



## WEST91436

I think the sale is already started.... prices in red with "sale" noted next to it.
  
 Don't forget its already the 29th in China
  
 When your shopping also check out these people
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/512142?spm=2114.01010208.3.57.cjKBxt
  
 they seem to have a few other models, also at great prices.
 And their sellers reputation is pretty good


----------



## Podster

kiler said:


> If big sales really come, maybe it is time to try the whole KZ lineup :b


 

 Call me KZ but I feel like I already have
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 These are the 11 pair I currently have but soon to be pared down to 4 which will be my kick around iem's which I don't have to worry about on the grab-n-go


----------



## kingkong369

I want an earphone for clarity, like I want to be able to hear the lyrics properly, which earphone should I get? Bass is not important


----------



## Podster

kingkong369 said:


> I want an earphone for clarity, like I want to be able to hear the lyrics properly, which earphone should I get? Bass is not important




My top three pics from KZ for what you ask

ED9
ED3c "ACME"
HDS1


----------



## lesp4ul

Don't forget ATE


----------



## kingkong369

cheers Podster, I will get the ED9 cuz it seems popular among you guys~
  
  
 lesp4ul it is this one?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/1358152_32337313320.html
  
 Should i buy from the KZ Headphones Official Flagship Store 
 or you know if there is cheaper places on aliexpress
  
 :3


----------



## kingkong369

hi it is KZ ATE S Copper Driver HiFi Sport Headphones In Ear Earphone For Running With Foam Eartips With Microphone


----------



## kingkong369

I will definitely get the ED9, seems very popular


----------



## Chief Stringer

bhazard said:


> Those KZ models are better than the hybrids.
> 
> I love Xiaomi, but I am extremely disappointed with their hybrids. Very muddy, treble drop off, little detail.




Okay thanks buddy much appreciated


----------



## kingkong369

Hey @Chief Stringer the ATE u own, it is called KZ ATE S? or it is different model?
  
 Also what's the difference between ED10 and ED9
  
 And is the ZS1 good too?
  
 Looking to buy a few models during the sale :3


----------



## Chief Stringer

kingkong369 said:


> Hey @Chief Stringer
> the ATE u own, it is called KZ ATE S? or it is different model?
> 
> Also what's the difference between ED10 and ED9
> ...




The ATE i have is the older version, the ATE S as far as im aware sounds the same but the part where the wires connect to the earphones look different and they use a memory wire to go around the esr like the ZS1 does, and for that reason id recommend the old ATE over the S version, because i hate the memory wire i think most dudes here agree.

Now despite using the annoying memory wire i liked the ZS1s sound, very bass heavy but solid impactful fun bass too, definatly not for everyone, but unfortunatly one of the right drivers stopped working and now i think only one of the 4 drivers works lol

My picks would have to be the ED9s and ED10s, the ED10s are smaller, have better isolation, heavier bass but a sharpness in the upper mid treble (5k region) which makes me prefer the ed9s sound (with the gold filters installed, the ed9s come with two filters one gives less bass the gold gives more), and i like my bass too, i dont know, to me the ed9s just have the fullest sound with the least peaks / drops in the frequnecy range

If your gonna use them to exercise i could see you prefing the ATE or ED10 design wise, but as for sound the ED9s are my favourate, it all depends on you man, what kind of sound do you like and what music genres do you listen too?


Edit: Apprantly people have reported that the ATE-S has more bass than the ATE


----------



## kingkong369

@Chief Stringer very good reviews :3
  
 Ye well, I like to listen to edm/electronic genre and also normal songs when I want clarity, so I can actually hear the lyrics(with less on the bass)
 So I prob want 2 pairs of earphones
  
 I also maybe want an earphone for sports (the one that don't fall out), so i thought the ATE S design maybe help do that, idk :3


----------



## Gussisaurio

bhazard said:


> The DS is old and not worth it.
> 
> KZ sales rep contacted me. I requested KZ to focus on some models with a flat sound signature. A $20-40 analytical IEM would be a godsend. This is the new target to hit.


 
  
  


west91436 said:


> Does anyone know if KZ has an official website, or they just sell on third party websites.
> 
> Trying to reach someone at their corporate office.
> 
> *tusharthegamer...... is it possible you can pass on Anna Kay's email address?*


 

 Hey WEST91436, probably this post may help you....


----------



## B9Scrambler

kingkong369 said:


> I want an earphone for clarity, like I want to be able to hear the lyrics properly, which earphone should I get? Bass is not important




EDR2 hands down. Best KZ for that, easily.


----------



## vegetaleb

kingkong369 said:


> @Chief Stringer very good reviews :3
> 
> Ye well, I like to listen to edm/electronic genre and also normal songs when I want clarity, so I can actually hear the lyrics(with less on the bass)
> So I prob want 2 pairs of earphones
> ...


 
  
 I will get my ATES very soon, also for Sports + good SQ, I will post my experience with them.
 Meanwhile for the AE anniversary I want to buy another iem for sports but under 20$ (and not the W1), dunno if someone here can help giving us advices.


----------



## CoiL

chief stringer said:


> kingkong369 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey @Chief Stringer
> ...


 
 Some have reported that S version is noticeably more bassier than non-S version translucent black ones. So, I wouldn`t be sure about that.


----------



## xrM

tusharthegamer said:


> Start with ed9 and hsd1 (most balanced sound) , ed3 for heavy bass , ATE for all round SQ.


 
 I was looking for tip recommendations for KZ iems actually, not iems.


----------



## Podster

xrm said:


> I was looking for tip recommendations for KZ iems actually, not iems.


 

 Ooh, I'm guilty as charged as well. Spinfit's, Auvio's, Whirlwind's and some of the see through dark gray ones work for me but best to just sit with 2 or 3 sets and change them out, some are night and day especially wide bore from tiny


----------



## seanwee

podster said:


> Call me KZ but I feel like I already have
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are all those clamshell cases included?


----------



## Podster

seanwee said:


> Are all those clamshell cases included?


 

 At $0.80 cents a case I guess so
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However inexpensive these Chinese iem's are they all deserve protection and a good home


----------



## seanwee

Just got a pair of Ostry KC06 and i have to say that they offer exceptional SQ for the money. I can even say that their SQ performs in the $100-150 regions.


----------



## Podster

seanwee said:


> Just got a pair of Ostry KC06 and i have to say that they offer exceptional SQ for the money. I can even say that their SQ performs in the $100-150 regions.


 

 Nice Sean, was that through the MassDrop?


----------



## rmatech

b9scrambler said:


> Sounds like the bass aspect is missing  Are you running stock tips because they kinda ruin the experience imo? I suggest something such as, or similar to, JVC's stock wide bores.




Just tried the wide tips provided stock. Bass does not seem much better than my xiomi hybrids, does anyone have both and can compare or maybe even to the piston 2?


----------



## seanwee

podster said:


> Nice Sean, was that through the MassDrop?


 
 Nope, unfortunately not as MassDrop does not ship to Malaysia. I got it from Lazada for Rm 180 ($45?) but with a little eq to increase subbass and reduce sibilance they sound 90% like my CKR-9s which is astonishing for the price.


----------



## Wiljen

Just ordered the HDS3 since I haven't seen a lot of comment on those yet.  Be interested to see how they compare with the 1st gen version I have.


----------



## Gussisaurio

KZ GR Pictorial Review
  
 Hey guys, I just got my KZ GR on the mail, and let me tell you, these are a GORGEOUSITY.
  
 Here's some proof:
  
  
  
    
  
  
  
 The cable is a gorgeous pearly white. Really cool looking.
 However, it ONLY comes with the black nozzles, with a hole and a patch inside covering the hole.
 It does NOT come with the red nozzles.
  
 Does anybody of you own both models? The previous one with the red nozzles and this new one?
 What am I missing? Is the same sound? Or entirely new one?


----------



## CoiL

I had the second gen GR with both nozzles but red one without port hole (1st gen had hole in red nozzle). As far as I know, both versions have same drivers and sound same with same nozzles being used.
 They do look beautiful and have best cable along with ANV from KZ bunch... but... as for SQ, imho they are nothing special - soundstage is small and is congested, they sound "thick" and not so good separation/transparency. They do sound good for oldschool rock with sloppy mastering and recording.


----------



## kiler

podster said:


> At $0.80 cents a case I guess so
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can you link where you get those? These look really nice, and for 80 cents a case I might just get 10 or so haha


----------



## Podster

kiler said:


> Can you link where you get those? These look really nice, and for 80 cents a case I might just get 10 or so haha


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Fashion-KZ-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphone-Storage-Case-Bag-Earphone-Accessories-Earphones/32374501717.html
  
 My sincere apologies Kiler, I paid $0.89 a case
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now if you jump on this sale you can get them for $0.68 cents each
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As you can see I purchased 5 on my order.
  
Hot KZ High End In Ear Earphone Box Headphones Portable Storage Case Bag Headphone Accessories Headset Storage Bag Free Shipping
[Transaction Screenshot]
 $ 0.89 X5


----------



## Chief Stringer

coil said:


> Some have reported that S version is noticeably more bassier than non-S version translucent black ones. So, I wouldn`t be sure about that.




Okay i edited my post meantioning that


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-Fashion-KZ-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphone-Storage-Case-Bag-Earphone-Accessories-Earphones/32374501717.html
> 
> My sincere apologies Kiler, I paid $0.89 a case
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Pod just picked up a few of these...just have to find a way to determine who's inside I usually open like five cases before I hit the right one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 now which one is my EDSE in?


----------



## Wokei

@CADCAM.....this will do ....muahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!


----------



## CADCAM

wokei said:


> @CADCAM.....this will do ....muahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!


 
 Genius my friend...simply genius.


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


> @CADCAM.....this will do ....muahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!


 

 Pulled out your trusty Brother labler eh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll send you my list and I do like the red with red trim
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 MuHaHaHaHaHa


----------



## Wokei

@Podster .....especially the black carbon design ...u know me .....tbh ,,,that's me only ONE ,,,muahahahahahahahaha
  
 BUT ...BUT ......that case of yours is AMAZING ...WOOT WOOT ...I bow down in humility at your awesomeness ...


----------



## EISENbricher

O__0

Wow the collection


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> O__0
> 
> Wow the collection


 

 You guys are killing me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately I have an overflow case which tells me I got a serious problem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did mention several post back that I need to pare down right! I may need to change my handle out here to Sick-O
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even found a new Avatar


----------



## Gussisaurio

coil said:


> I had the second gen GR with both nozzles but red one without port hole (1st gen had hole in red nozzle). As far as I know, both versions have same drivers and sound same with same nozzles being used.
> They do look beautiful and have best cable along with ANV from KZ bunch... but... as for SQ, imho they are nothing special - soundstage is small and is congested, they sound "thick" and not so good separation/transparency. They do sound good for oldschool rock with sloppy mastering and recording.


 
  
 Well, let's hope these new ones are better. Hopefully, there must be some reason KX decided to put ONLY one type on nozzle, instead of the previous two. I'll tell you after 200 hours of burning. Burning time!!!


----------



## Ruben123

wokei said:


> @Podster .....especially the black carbon design ...u know me .....tbh ,,,that's me only ONE ,,,muahahahahahahahaha
> 
> BUT ...BUT ......that case of yours is AMAZING ...WOOT WOOT ...I bow down in humility at your awesomeness ...


 

 Ive seen that movie! Kill Bill... didnt like it that much.


----------



## kiler

Amazing, thanks for the link :b I'm gonna have to buy them in batches cause I only have free shipping for 3 units, if I add another unit to the basket I start having to pay for them :b
  
 Therefore I'll buy some more later, for now 3 will have to suffice


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Ive seen that movie! Kill Bill... didnt like it that much.


 

 Awe Ruben, QT is the man. How about "The Hateful Eight"? "Pulp Fiction"? "Inglorious Bastards"? "Reservoir Dogs"? and my Wacky favorite "Dusk Till Dawn"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Then you have the modern day Bonnie & Clyde with "Natural Born Killers" Your female Shaft with "Jackie Brown" and since you did not like KB 1 you probably never saw KB 2 with the scariest death I could ever dream of is being buried alive


----------



## Gussisaurio

kiler said:


> Amazing, thanks for the link :b I'm gonna have to buy them in batches cause I only have free shipping for 3 units, if I add another unit to the basket I start having to pay for them :b
> 
> Therefore I'll buy some more later, for now 3 will have to suffice


 
  
 You can buy a three units package, pay for it AND immediately after that put three additional pieces to your shopping cart and pay again. You can order the 10, 20 units you need like so, and the shipping will remain free.


----------



## horribol

Hey guys, can you recommend me some KZ IEMs to try different sound signatures? I'm currently using a Piston 3 and a Shure SE112 most of the time, and they sound very similar to me. I enjoy they SE112 a bit more but it also gets me tired faster. I couldn't get the Pistons to fit right, so they are a bit loose and it's a bit annoying.
  
 Anyways, I'm looking for some sub-$20 recommendation to buy during the sales. I bought an ATE and a ED9 for my siblings last year but I didn't really got to listen to them, but they still seem to be working fine.


----------



## CoiL

gussisaurio said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I had the second gen GR with both nozzles but red one without port hole (1st gen had hole in red nozzle). As far as I know, both versions have same drivers and sound same with same nozzles being used.
> ...


 

 Imho, GR didn`t improve with burn-in, their signature and previously mentioned impressions stayed same. I believe those have just different nozzles but same drivers. Probably leftovers from GR stock and little nozzle "tuning" to make them tad better and also sell them "as new version".


----------



## Shadowsora

My ZN1-M just arrived, MAJOR shout-out to @EISENbricher who did such a favor to me(he ordered ZN1-M in my stead because I have problems ordering stuff here in Greece due to Capital controls), really really  thank you buddy and I hope to return the favor ASAP.
  
 Now for some early impressions, those things have SOUND I don't really know how to describe it, wide soundstage the bass is really kicking and the separation is great.
 It's early to tell but I think I'll really like those, not as much as ATE probably but surely is a must have IMO, I really enjoyed ATE for Vocals but for EDM and Soundtracks(Anime/Movie OSTS) I am pretty sure I will like ZN1 more.
  
 Listened to:
 Egoist - Namae no kaibutsu
 Aimer - AM 03:00
 TK - Unravel
 Gary Jules - Mad world
 Moby - Extreme Ways
 & some Movie osts + Nujabes.
  
 I'll give them some burn in and retest them.


Spoiler: Pictures.


----------



## CoiL

Shadowsora ,what silicone tips are those and where to buy them? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> Shadowsora ,what silicone tips are those and where to buy them? Thanks in advance!


 
 Those are from my Sony MH1c, I am not sure where you can find them standalone.
 They are like "upgraded" Sony hybrids, in terms of comfort and durability, haven't found better eartips so if you find a cheap mh1c I recommend you get it even if it's just for the eartips, the package has plenty inside.
 In my case it was a steal, MH1C for 6-7 euros, grabbed 5 pairs when I had the chance.


----------



## CoiL

Hmmm, haven`t seen those orange ones with MH1C on sale but thanks for info!


----------



## Shadowsora

It's with the white MH1C, which has White and orange tips.
 The black one has Black and Green eartips.


----------



## rmatech

Has anybody tried the xiaomi hybrid how fo they compare bass wise to the zs1??? Thanks


----------



## Sylmar

Got my ATEs today. Love them! Only thing I don't like that much are the small copper weights dangling below my ears on the sides of my neck. They feel cold to the touch so I wrapped them in tape. Put third party tri-flangles on the nozzles which makes the sound more intimate. This IEM may become my favourite as I like the neutral-ish sound that fits my favourite music (on a Rockboxed amped Sansa). Really happy with my buy.


----------



## CoiL

Sylmar, You can easily take away those weights or just move them downwards towards Y-splitter. First You have to pull those "gold" weights apart, then remove little clamp inside, move them down the wire and then put back together


----------



## Sylmar

coil said:


> Sylmar, You can easily take away those weights or just move them downwards towards Y-splitter. First You have to pull those "gold" weights apart, then remove little clamp inside, move them down the wire and then put back together


 
 I'll give that a try. Thanks!


----------



## To.M

I've had ATE (translucent black) for 2 weeks and I like them more and more, both their sound and design. Cheap and good, a perfect mix


----------



## Mellowship

What's better than getting one KZ on the mail?
  
 Getting two on the same day


----------



## LRManenti

Could anyone confirm the length of the cord from the ZN1 Mini? I've bought one and it's absurdly small. If my phone is sitting on my pocket, it doesn't reach my ears.


----------



## Podster

lrmanenti said:


> Could anyone confirm the length of the cord from the ZN1 Mini? I've bought one and it's absurdly small. If my phone is sitting on my pocket, it doesn't reach my ears.




Don't have mine on me at the moment and it is a little shorter than other KZ's but I wear ny iPhone on my hip and they reach my ears fine and I wear nune over ear the real kicket and what makes them look real short is the size if the cable frim the splitter to the jack, akin to a full suze garden hose

. 

P.S. If no one else let's you know I can measure mine in the morning, there at ny office.


----------



## LRManenti

I don't even think you would need to measure it. I've compared mine with a Piston 2. Starting both from the plug, the zn1 ends where the mic/y splitter starts on the Piston. Guess I'll have to ask for a refund.
  
 Edit: Measured it, 95cm


----------



## CoiL

LOL @ KZ, that`s way too short!


----------



## B9Scrambler

The ZN1's cable is short; 39", or just under 1 meter. Standard seems to be 1.2 meters.


----------



## Podster

lrmanenti said:


> I don't even think you would need to measure it. I've compared mine with a Piston 2. Starting both from the plug, the zn1 ends where the mic/y splitter starts on the Piston. Guess I'll have to ask for a refund.
> 
> Edit: Measured it, 95cm




Indeed, at least the builder finally got his ear pieces and jack on successfully before they were totally out of cable Mine are short but not that short, I've always thought that once a bunch of us posted we did not like the original amp box model that they just started hacking them up then with the ZS1 we complained about the memory wire and they hacked those off and gave us the ZN1 Mini! 

It may very well be why that cable between the jack and splitter on the ZN1 Mini is like a garden hose they were just using salvage to make up ZN1's with what was on hand come on, what do you want for sub $20 iem's:rolleyes::rolleyes: LOL


----------



## To.M

Mellowship double pleasure  if my eyes do not fail me, ED9 and EDR2?


----------



## Mellowship

to.m said:


> @Mellowship double pleasure  if my eyes do not fail me, ED9 and EDR2?


 
 You got that right!  They seem very good out of the box


----------



## To.M

Never had ED9 but as for EDR2 I can only agree with you  what's more they get even better with time


----------



## Gussisaurio

coil said:


> Imho, GR didn`t improve with burn-in, their signature and previously mentioned impressions stayed same. I believe those have just different nozzles but same drivers. Probably leftovers from GR stock and little nozzle "tuning" to make them tad better and also sell them "as new version".


 
  






 How sad... well, at least I love how they look. Probably my favourite among all KZ models.


----------



## Ruben123

Get a 20cm extension cord on aliex if the cable's too short. They are only $1, shouldn't ask a refund for that I think..


----------



## kingkong369

apple earpod vs KZ ED9 which is better?


----------



## EISENbricher

kingkong369 said:


> apple earpod vs KZ ED9 which is better?


 
 ED9, that's so easy.


----------



## kingkong369

aiight, time to sell my new apple earpod I just got today on ebay :3 for 30 bucks lol~


----------



## B9Scrambler

kingkong369 said:


> aiight, time to sell my new apple earpod I just got today on ebay :3 for 30 bucks lol~


 
  
 Might as well keep them. They're not bad sounding by any means, and if you need something with less isolation they'll be fine.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Might as well keep them. They're not bad sounding by any means, and if you need something with less isolation they'll be fine.




I don't know, have 4 NIB from our family plan phones and maybe I could recover $120 between what I've paid Apple and Verizon


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> I don't know, have 4 NIB from our family plan phones and maybe I could recover $120 between what I've paid Apple and Verizon




Fair enough


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Fair enough


 

 I actually had 6 pair but I've given a couple to some forum members who like them, like you said they are not as bad as Apple first pods they even learned people wanted better sound out of their devices


----------



## loomisjohnson

i wandered onto this forum by accident--my initial reaction was bewilderment at how such an obscure, cheap product could generate 10k+ obsessive posts. now i seem to have caught the kz disease and find this forum oddly intoxicating, like watching waves crash. just started binge-purchasing the phones, as well--have the edse in hand and the ate and hds3 on the way. more will surely follow.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> i wandered onto this forum by accident--my initial reaction was bewilderment at how such an obscure, cheap product could generate 10k+ obsessive posts. now i seem to have caught the kz disease and find this forum oddly intoxicating, like watching waves crash. just started binge-purchasing the phones, as well--have the edse in hand and the ate and hds3 on the way. more will surely follow.


 

 Funny how that happened eh Loomis
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You have joined a band of brothers in the quest for the best $10 iem on the planet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's been a lot of fun but I'm moving on from KZ these days but they are a decent iem to have fun with
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best hold that wallet tight though


----------



## CADCAM

loomisjohnson said:


> i wandered onto this forum by accident--my initial reaction was bewilderment at how such an obscure, cheap product could generate 10k+ obsessive posts. now i seem to have caught the kz disease and find this forum oddly intoxicating, like watching waves crash. just started binge-purchasing the phones, as well--have the edse in hand and the ate and hds3 on the way. more will surely follow.


 
 Don't forget the ED9 (get black!) and the ED3c...they are very good IMHO.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Don't forget the ED9 (get black!) and the ED3c...they are very good IMHO.


 

 Here's my best political impression..................."I approve this message"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (ED3c in Red baby)


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Funny how that happened eh Loomis
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think there are better $10 IEms out there sound quality wise, but not build quality wise and certainly not with a new model every few weeks lol


----------



## bhazard

kingkong369 said:


> aiight, time to sell my new apple earpod I just got today on ebay :3 for 30 bucks lol~


 
 The main draw of KZ is that they are the excellent earpod replacements with better sound for 1/3rd the price. 
  


loomisjohnson said:


> i wandered onto this forum by accident--my initial reaction was bewilderment at how such an obscure, cheap product could generate 10k+ obsessive posts. now i seem to have caught the kz disease and find this forum oddly intoxicating, like watching waves crash. just started binge-purchasing the phones, as well--have the edse in hand and the ate and hds3 on the way. more will surely follow.


 
 The unique sound and design of each model, the bargain price, and the pace at which they release new models can get addicting. They still haven't nailed anything that can compete in the $100+ sector, which I hope they eventually move on to. A $30 KZ that can keep up with a $150 standard, or a $65 KZ that matches a $200+ is what I look forward to happening in the future.


----------



## loomisjohnson

i'm gonna regret asking this, as it will only fuel my addiction, but is there a material difference in sound signature between my edse and the ed9/ed3c?
 one thing about getting old is that your passions/ambitions get smaller and smaller.........


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> i'm gonna regret asking this, as it will only fuel my addiction, but is there a material difference in sound signature between my edse and the ed9/ed3c?
> one thing about getting old is that your passions/ambitions get smaller and smaller.........


 

 Indeed there is and you also have the 2 filter nozzle selection with ED9's


----------



## Podster

bhazard said:


> The main draw of KZ is that they are the excellent earpod replacements with better sound for 1/3rd the price.
> 
> The unique sound and design of each model, the bargain price, and the pace at which they release new models can get addicting. They still haven't nailed anything that can compete in the $100+ sector, which I hope they eventually move on to. A $30 KZ that can keep up with a $150 standard, or a $65 KZ that matches a $200+ is what I look forward to happening in the future.


 

 True BH, I wish KZ would take that next step and start challenging Easy, ****, HCK and a host of others who've jumped in head first with the DIY customs


----------



## JesvsR

I'm proud to announce that I'm getting started into the KZ's world =D
 My first buy has been the KZ ZN1-Mini, because I'm so interested on trying some Dual-Driver IEMs
  I hope I enjoy them as much as the rest of you¡¡


----------



## To.M

ruben123 said:


> I think there are better $10 IEms out there sound quality wise




You have my full attention, which ones?


----------



## Legislative

Rock zircons are pretty special though I do love the ZN1 minis I have however they are more sensitive to the sound signature of your player. Zircons seem to work better across the range of daps I have. Anyway just received the ATE and ED-9 models so let's see how they work out


----------



## Sylmar

jesvsr said:


> I'm proud to announce that I'm getting started into the KZ's world =D
> My first buy has been the KZ ZN1-Mini, because I'm so interested on trying some Dual-Driver IEMs
> I hope I enjoy them as much as the rest of you¡¡


 
 Same here as I have had my ATE's for a day now. All in all a very welcome experience with the KZ brand.


----------



## JesvsR

sylmar said:


> Same here as I have had my ATE's for a day now. All in all a very welcome experience with the KZ brand.




Thank you¡¡


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> The ZN1's cable is short; 39", or just under 1 meter. Standard seems to be 1.2 meters.


 

 OK B9, it's official and you are right on the money bud
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 39" and 17 1/2" from ear piece to splitter but as I mentioned they work for me having my iPhone or DAP at my waist


----------



## Ruben123

to.m said:


> You have my full attention, which ones?




I rediscovered these beauties.


http://www.head-fi.org/t/580769/the-monoprice-mp9927-pg-208-mp8320-mep-933-the-7-11-club

Small bore tips with a tiny bit of cloth in them and they're perfect.


----------



## Gussisaurio

ruben123 said:


> I rediscovered these beauties.
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/580769/the-monoprice-mp9927-pg-208-mp8320-mep-933-the-7-11-club
> ...


 

 Better? April's fools?  Or for real?


----------



## B9Scrambler

gussisaurio said:


> Better? April's fools?  Or for real?


 
  
 For real. Classic Head-fi goodness right there.


----------



## xrM

If I already have the EDSE, should I go for the ed9 or ed3c for something different?


----------



## Gussisaurio

xrm said:


> If I already have the EDSE, should I go for the ed9 or ed3c for something different?


 

 Now that you mention the ED3c... guys, is there ANY difference between the ED3c (sold by Easy), and the ED3m (sold by HCK)? I just compared the specifications and pictures for both offers, and they look exactly the same. Then, why two different names? Are these really two different models?
 Easy sells the ED3c ONLY. And HCK sells the ED3m ONLY. Why?
  
 Look: 
(Images from AE)


----------



## Rumblefish

gussisaurio said:


> Now that you mention the ED3c... guys, is there ANY difference between the ED3c (sold by Easy), and the ED3m (sold by HCK)? I just compared the specifications and pictures for both offers, and they look exactly the same. Then, why two different names? Are these really two different models?
> Easy sells the ED3c ONLY. And HCK sells the ED3m ONLY. Why?
> 
> Look:
> (Images from AE)


 
 I'm not sure, but it looks like the ED3M are the version with Microphone and ED3c are the version without. At least that's the way it seems on some of the other sellers stores.


----------



## seanwee

bhazard said:


> They still haven't nailed anything that can compete in the $100+ sector, which I hope they eventually move on to. *A $30 KZ that can keep up with a $150 standard*, or a $65 KZ that matches a $200+ is what I look forward to happening in the future.


 
 You have the Ostry KC06 for that job already


----------



## Gussisaurio

rumblefish said:


> I'm not sure, but it looks like the ED3M are the version with Microphone and ED3c are the version without. At least that's the way it seems on some of the other sellers stores.


 

 Not really, they both sell 4 variations:
  
 1. blue with mic
 2. blue without mic
 3. red with mic
 4. red without mic
  
 At first I thought the blue one was the ED3c and the red one the ED3m, but that doesn't seem to be correct anymore.
 Hopefully Easy or Teresa can solve the mystery next time they come over here.


----------



## seanwee

gussisaurio said:


> Not really, they both sell 4 variations:
> 
> 1. blue with mic
> 2. blue without mic
> ...


 
 Is there a SQ difference between the mic and no mic versions?


----------



## Ruben123

gussisaurio said:


> Better? April's fools?  Or for real?




In my opinion they are just a bit more refined than the kzs I've tried  they also sound exceptionally natural for the $7 price tag.
It really is my opinion, but trying can't harm can it? The fit is what most people don't like, but a long tip (dual flange?) Helps a lot.


----------



## j0p3Y

xrm said:


> If I already have the EDSE, should I go for the ed9 or ed3c for something different?


I'm interested as well.. Got the ZN1 mini and EDR2 (also some more like Joyroom E107, **** etc)


----------



## Gussisaurio

seanwee said:


> Is there a SQ difference between the mic and no mic versions?


 

 Yes, but hopefully not significatively. I order all my earphones with microphone to use them also as ``hands free'' devices on my phone. 
 There's some sound differences among two adjacent earphones from the production line, that is typical, even among the right and left drivers from the same pair of headphones there are differences. To manufacture two drivers with exactly the same sound is really hard, look a measurement of frequency response of the right and left drivers from a pair of KZ ATE:


 Blue is left and red is right. As you can see, they are not the same, therefore, they do not sound the exactly same, that is typical. There are some manufactures who actually search for a paired driver to put on the same pair of headphones, like Sennheiser with the HD650, but to do that is really expensive. KZ on the other hand just takes a couple drivers from the manufacturing line, and put them on a pair of earphones, mic or no mic. They will sound different. And the next pair of headphones WILL also sound different, and so on and on. Therefore, if you compare a pair with mic and a pair without mic, they will sound a little different, but it is most probably not because the mic presence, but due to the manufacturing quality of the drivers and the earphones. If you compare two without the mic, they will sound different as well.


----------



## seanwee

gussisaurio said:


> Yes, but hopefully not significatively. I order all my earphones with microphone to use them also as ``hands free'' devices on my phone.
> There's some sound differences among two adjacent earphones from the production line, that is typical, even among the right and left drivers from the same pair of headphones there are differences. To manufacture two drivers with exactly the same sound is really hard, look a measurement of frequency response of the right and left drivers from a pair of KZ ATE:
> 
> 
> Blue is left and red is right. As you can see, they are not the same, therefore, they do not sound the exactly same, that is typical. There are some manufactures who actually search for a paired driver to put on the same pair of headphones, like Sennheiser with the HD650, but to do that is really expensive. KZ on the other hand just takes a couple drivers from the manufacturing line, and put them on a pair of earphones, mic or no mic. They will sound different. And the next pair of headphones WILL also sound different, and so on and on. Therefore, if you compare a pair with mic and a pair without mic, they will sound a little different, but it is most probably not because the mic presence. If you compare two without the mic, they will sound different as well.


 
 thanks for the info, etymotic er4 also uses BAs matched to less than 1db of left-right difference.


----------



## loomisjohnson

got to spend some time with the edse and my impressions (in case anyone cares) are this:
 darkish sound; relatively small soundstage; lotsa bass depth and impact. a real "wow" factor with heavy music like rap or hard rock. with more nuanced/acoustic stuff their limitations are more apparent--in particular there's not a great deal of treble detail or extension--cymbals and piano in particular are not as fully resolved as better iems. easy to drive, but they sound better the louder they get. reviewing these, it's hard to keep price out of the equation--compared to their peers, these are more natural sounding and better than piston2 or mee m9, tho i think the lg quadbeats are more refined. overall much fun; looking forward to the two new kzs i impulsively ordered.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> For real. Classic Head-fi goodness right there.




Indeed, when I first started watching the threads on Head-Fi the Moniprice 88 somethings got a lot of love out here and still do get respect


----------



## Gussisaurio

ruben123 said:


> In my opinion they are just a bit more refined than the kzs I've tried
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!!! I just put them on my shopping list. Is that page (Monoprice) trustworthy?
 The white model looks cool (and cheaper) but it is out of stock.
 What they don't tell is the shipping fare to Mexico. Hopefully they don't charge $30 USD for DHL or FedEx.


----------



## rmatech

Hi, asked this question previosuly with no response, was just wondering how the bass on the zs1 compare with the xiaomi hybrid or piston 2, as after comparing my zs1 with my xiaomi hybrids, impact is about the same and not as tight. Is this how its meant to be?

Thanks


----------



## Gussisaurio

rmatech said:


> Hi, asked this question previosuly with no response, was just wondering how the bass on the zs1 compare with the xiaomi hybrid or piston 2, as after comparing my zs1 with my xiaomi hybrids, impact is about the same and not as tight. Is this how its meant to be?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Sorry, my ZS1 is on order. I don't know. Hopefully somebody else does know.


----------



## Gussisaurio

Hey guys, I have a question:
 Some of you have reported that their earphones sometimes do make "crunching" noises when putting on (compressing the air inside the earphones, hence making the diaphragm do cracking noises). My KZ ED 10 does this thing on the right driver when I put it on, the left one does not. I think I just found out why... But, how do you call this phenomenon?


----------



## seanwee

That would be driver flex. Driver flex is heard as kind of a crinkly sound. As you push the IEM into your ear you create a pressure build up. This pressure causes the driver to flex, which you can hear. Anything you can do to alleviate this rapid pressure build up, such as slow insertion, venting the dynamic driver, using foam tips which seal more slowly, will help to minimize or eliminate it. All IEM's with dynamic drivers, particularly if there is no venting, can be subject to this. Generally the driver flexes right back into its original position and all is fine. Theoretically if the flex is sever enough, it could permanently deform or dislodge the driver however this rarely happens.


----------



## Ruben123

gussisaurio said:


> Thanks!!! I just put them on my shopping list. Is that page (Monoprice) trustworthy?
> The white model looks cool (and cheaper) but it is out of stock.
> What they don't tell is the shipping fare to Mexico. Hopefully they don't charge $30 USD for DHL or FedEx.




You can also try Amazon if the shipping becomes too high. Whites are the best ones (and I with my stupid head bought 5 (!!!!) Black ones). Whites have normal cable and better build.


----------



## horribol

I bought an ED9, ATE and HDS1 in the last Aliexpress sales, and I've got to say the KZ shop there is fantastic. They ask if you need to correct your order before shipping, free shipping and it shipped unbelievably fast (especially compared to most free shippings in aliexpress).
  
 They've already left China, so hopefully I can try them soon!


----------



## Gussisaurio

seanwee said:


> That would be driver flex. Driver flex is heard as kind of a crinkly sound. As you push the IEM into your ear you create a pressure build up. This pressure causes the driver to flex, which you can hear. Anything you can do to alleviate this rapid pressure build up, such as slow insertion, venting the dynamic driver, using foam tips which seal more slowly, will help to minimize or eliminate it. All IEM's with dynamic drivers, particularly if there is no venting, can be subject to this. Generally the driver flexes right back into its original position and all is fine. Theoretically if the flex is sever enough, it could permanently deform or dislodge the driver however this rarely happens.


 

 Thanks!!! That is it, driver flex.
 I just found that the small vent hole of my ED10's right driver is blocked. Therefore when I put the right driver on, it flexes. The other, the left one, is open, and the driver doesn't flex. The right one (the one blocked), has considerably more bass than the left one (the open one). So there is a though decision coming, should I open the hole and lose the strong bass, or should I block the other hole to equal the bass response, making both drivers to flex.


----------



## EISENbricher

gussisaurio said:


> Thanks!!! That is it, driver flex.
> I just found that the small vent hole of my ED10's right driver is blocked. Therefore when I put the right driver on, it flexes. The other, the left one, is open, and the driver doesn't flex. The right one (the one blocked), has considerably more bass than the left one (the open one). So there is a though decision coming, should I open the hole and lose the strong bass, or should I block the other hole to equal the bass response, making both drivers to flex.



Your choice... I'd recommend to open both holes but it's your call.


----------



## seanwee

eisenbricher said:


> Your choice... I'd recommend to open both holes but it's your call.


 
 Maybe open both holes and make a hole sealer with a bit of plasticine so you can have no driver flex when putting them in and so your can have that strong bass by applying plasticine later?
  
 Bah , i worded it poorly, find it confusing when i read myself. but make out what you can from it.


----------



## vegetaleb

ZS1 at 10$!?
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PC-KZ-ZS1-Dual-Dynamic-Monitoring-Stereo-Sound-HiFi-Headphones-Headset-With-Microphone/32556643634.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.67.iYh5SA&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_4_301_10034_10033_507_10032_10020_10017_10005_10006_10021_10022_401_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_9&btsid=775fd6b0-86bb-4b0f-b203-6e7d59477ce2


----------



## j0p3Y

seanwee said:


> That would be driver flex. Driver flex is heard as kind of a crinkly sound. As you push the IEM into your ear you create a pressure build up. This pressure causes the driver to flex, which you can hear. Anything you can do to alleviate this rapid pressure build up, such as slow insertion, venting the dynamic driver, using foam tips which seal more slowly, will help to minimize or eliminate it. All IEM's with dynamic drivers, particularly if there is no venting, can be subject to this. Generally the driver flexes right back into its original position and all is fine. Theoretically if the flex is sever enough, it could permanently deform or dislodge the driver however this rarely happens.


I had this with the ZN1 mini. Right driver had some serious flex. Did get a replacement which, how curious, has the same issue unfortunately..


----------



## Gussisaurio

vegetaleb said:


> ZS1 at 10$!?
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PC-KZ-ZS1-Dual-Dynamic-Monitoring-Stereo-Sound-HiFi-Headphones-Headset-With-Microphone/32556643634.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.67.iYh5SA&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_4_301_10034_10033_507_10032_10020_10017_10005_10006_10021_10022_401_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_9&btsid=775fd6b0-86bb-4b0f-b203-6e7d59477ce2


 

 Oh, snap. I just ordered these suckers for USD$13, during the sale. Thanks for the tip anyway!!!


----------



## Gussisaurio

eisenbricher said:


> Your choice... I'd recommend to open both holes but it's your call.


 
  
  


seanwee said:


> Maybe open both holes and make a hole sealer with a bit of plasticine so you can have no driver flex when putting them in and so your can have that strong bass by applying plasticine later?
> 
> Bah , i worded it poorly, find it confusing when i read myself. but make out what you can from it.


 
  
  


j0p3y said:


> I had this with the ZN1 mini. Right driver had some serious flex. Did get a replacement which, how curious, has the same issue unfortunately..


 

 Thanks guys. This is what I found:
  
 The left driver was blocked, apparently from the factory by the shiny (chrome like) coating the ED10 has:
 
 See the blocked hole in the middle of the picture? This was the driver with the flexing, because the air was trapped.
  
 On the other hand, the right driver's hole was open:

 Again, look at the centre of the picture. This driver had no flexing at all.
 I just punctured the blocked hole with a needle, and voila!!!
 The driver flexing is gone, yay!!!
  
 Now I will follow your advice and will experiment blocking both holes to get more bass.


----------



## seanwee

gussisaurio said:


> Thanks guys. This is what I found:
> 
> The left driver was blocked, apparently from the factory by the shiny (chrome like) coating the ED10 has:
> 
> ...


 
 All the best!!!


----------



## CoiL

gussisaurio said:


> eisenbricher said:
> 
> 
> > Your choice... I'd recommend to open both holes but it's your call.
> ...


 
 Could that be the "issue" why I`m not agreeing with some users about ED10 being "bassy". My ED10 has both holes perfectly open and it sounds very well balanced with no boosted bass.


----------



## 1clearhead

I agree!
  
 My ED10 do not sound bass-heavy, but rather more balanced with a slightly bright signature with wide-bored tips.
  
 ......on the other hand, *users here should be more aware of QC issues and definitely exchange, or get their money back on time.  *


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> My ED10 do not sound bass-heavy, but rather more *balanced with a slightly bright signature with wide-bored tips.*


 
 +1 Same here!


> ......on the other hand, *users here should be more aware of QC issues and definitely exchange, or get their money back on time. *


 
 Also agree! KZ HAS QC issues and ppl should consider that issue before buying and making final judgement on them.


----------



## Nafis

coil said:


> +1 Same here!
> Also agree! KZ HAS QC issues and ppl should consider that issue before buying and making final judgement on them.


+1


----------



## AsheshM

I just received a new ED3 acme. Its a replacement for my the previous one which stopped working within a few weeks. The right earphone stopped suddenly. I hope this one will last longer. 
 My lz-03a is coming soon.


----------



## Deveraux

kingkong369 said:


> apple earpod vs KZ ED9 which is better?


 
 Well, I needed an answer to this question earlier, before buying. Didn't get a proper answer anywhere.
  
 I got my ED9 today, was excited and was really confident that it'd be really better than the EarPods reading the comments here.
  
 I'm disappointed. And I can say, EarPods sound better. I'm really a noob about this sound quality thing but I'm never completely satisfied with what I have (  ).

 After a LOT of playing with V4A settings, I was able to get the ED9 CLOSE to the EarPods (and I thought it was better at first). The bass is all fine and punchy enough (for the price, I guess), Earpods have SLIGHTLY lower bass. Then after listening to a few more songs, I kind of started getting irritated due to the sound it produces. The mids and highs are really harsh. The Earpods on the other hand produces a very clean sound. ED9 hurts my ears. Kind of like the... cheap sound...
  
  
 Honestly, I cannot hear any real difference between the two nozzles (or whatever you call it). However, the bass nozzles sound better to my ears.
  
 Should I sell it or wait more and give it some burn in?
  
 BTW I'm using a Nexus 6P which has a PATHETIC DAC in built. Is that the issue? I guess not, because the Earpods are also running in the same thing.


----------



## Wiljen

I'd give them time before I made the decision that I hated them unless the fit is just wrong for your ears.  Fit issues don't get better, sound might.  Burn-in is one of those topics here that will attract strong opinions on both sides of the argument.   I know for me, I do believe that anything with moving parts tends to wear over time and I think it perfectly logical that the moving parts in a driver can indeed wear and change slightly with use.


----------



## Deveraux

wiljen said:


> I'd give them time before I made the decision that I hated them unless the fit is just wrong for your ears.  Fit issues don't get better, sound might.  Burn-in is one of those topics here that will attract strong opinions on both sides of the argument.   I know for me, I do believe that anything with moving parts tends to wear over time and I think it perfectly logical that the moving parts in a driver can indeed wear and change slightly with use.


 
 It fits fine to my ears.. I think I have to sell it, because if I need to tune the EQ so much to get slightly better sound than my existing one, it's not really worth it. Right?


----------



## 1clearhead

deveraux said:


> Well, I needed an answer to this question earlier, before buying. Didn't get a proper answer anywhere.
> 
> I got my ED9 today, was excited and was really confident that it'd be really better than the EarPods reading the comments here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you have other silicone tips, try "tip-rolling". This really helps in getting the right sound balance your looking for.....Silicone tips with a wide-bore center does it for me. I've been using the Auvio medium silicone tips with the wide-bore center ever since I bought my ED9's several years ago when they first came out.
  
 Here's a link below.....
  
http://www.amazon.com/AUVIO-Silicone-Replacement-Tips-Medium/dp/B00N568Z80/ref=pd_sim_23_1/189-7990867-8701264?ie=UTF8&dpID=31bG5jFnvLL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1YA59K8JG7M9Q4DZNDRB
  
 I use the medium Auvio tips on my KZ-ED9 and SoundMAGIC E10's.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Mellowship

1clearhead said:


> If you have other silicone tips, try "tip-rolling". This really helps in getting the right sound balance your looking for.....Silicone tips with a wide-bore center does it for me. I've been using the Auvio medium silicone tips with the wide-bore center ever since I bought my ED9's several years ago when they first came out.
> 
> Here's a link below.....
> 
> ...


 
 Been rolling tips with my ED9. I find them to be hard-fitting iems. They just don't seem to sit right in my ears, which is a rare phenomena... I think it's because they are rather heavy and have that weird shape. But I had some silicone tips from my old beloved (and dead... snif) Radiopaq Jazz, and they are just perfect for these iems. I use them with the brass nozzles, inserted all the way in, covering the tiny nozzle holes. 
 So, what I say is that some iems don't seem to fit right at the fisrt, second, third, fourth time... but if you manage to try hard enough, and if they are good enough...


----------



## Podster

mellowship said:


> Been rolling tips with my ED9. I find them to be hard-fitting iems. They just don't seem to sit right in my ears, which is a rare phenomena... I think it's because they are rather heavy and have that weird shape. But I had some silicone tips from my old beloved (and dead... snif) Radiopaq Jazz, and they are just perfect for these iems. I use them with the brass nozzles, inserted all the way in, covering the tiny nozzle holes.
> So, what I say is that some iems don't seem to fit right at the fisrt, second, third, fourth time... but if you manage to try hard enough, and if they are good enough...


 

 Wearing my ED9 over ear solved my weight problem but I know some hate over ear wire!


----------



## kaiteck

podster said:


> Wearing my ED9 over ear solved my weight problem but I know some hate over ear wire!


 
 I love  over ear wire though .__.


----------



## kaiteck

deveraux said:


> It fits fine to my ears.. I think I have to sell it, because if I need to tune the EQ so much to get slightly better sound than my existing one, it's not really worth it. Right?


 
 If you dun like, just sell it. Usually, you could sell it with no loss.

 I bought tons of kz iems and sold them all except KZ-ATE S. Didn't really like KZ ed9,ed10 and zs1. But it made me realized that only warm sound signature suits to my taste. I assume you're using apple earpods? Apple earpods is actually not that bad but they are definitely inferior once you found the right kz model for you.


----------



## crabdog

kaiteck said:


> If you dun like, just sell it. Usually, you could sell it with no loss.
> 
> I bought tons of kz iems and sold them all except KZ-ATE S. Didn't really like KZ ed9,ed10 and zs1. But it made me realized that only warm sound signature suits to my taste. I assume you're using apple earpods? Apple earpods is actually not that bad but they are definitely inferior once you found the right kz model for you.


 
 KZ will probably sound inferior if you're not getting a good seal. A good fit can make all the difference with iem.


----------



## kaiteck

crabdog said:


> KZ will probably sound inferior if you're not getting a good seal. A good fit can make all the difference with iem.


 
 Pretty much anything will sound inferior if you're not getting a good seal. :/
 There's a reason why i sold so much kz iems.


----------



## Deveraux

1clearhead said:


> If you have other silicone tips, try "tip-rolling". This really helps in getting the right sound balance your looking for.....Silicone tips with a wide-bore center does it for me. I've been using the Auvio medium silicone tips with the wide-bore center ever since I bought my ED9's several years ago when they first came out.
> 
> Here's a link below.....
> 
> ...


 
 I've no idea what tip rolling means.. (forgive me, me noob). 
  
  
  


kaiteck said:


> If you dun like, just sell it. Usually, you could sell it with no loss.
> 
> I bought tons of kz iems and sold them all except KZ-ATE S. Didn't really like KZ ed9,ed10 and zs1. But it made me realized that only warm sound signature suits to my taste. I assume you're using apple earpods? Apple earpods is actually not that bad but they are definitely inferior once you found the right kz model for you.


 
  
 Yeah, that's a huge plus. Hope I get a buyer quickly.
  
 By the way I just had a listen with an M8 and 6S Plus. 
  
 With the 6S Plus:
 The ED9 may sound little better to some people, and I thought the same the first few seconds. But like I said earlier, the treble is too harsh sometimes.
 Earpods sound the same or little better with the treble booster EQ for me (otherwise it sounds too muffled/closed).
  
 With M8 (No V4A):
 ED9 sounds a little better. Probably because of no V4A.
  
 Now again with my 6P with V4A:
 I'm like.. Oh really? :O The Earpods sound really really good with the V4A optimisations! It's kind of like an entirely different thing, I can't actually believe how this app does wonders/magic!
 ED9 - same thing I told earlier - treble is too harsh sometimes (even after trying so hard).
  
  
 Now I get it, people who say ED9 is much better than Earpods have clearly not utilised its true potential. With no EQ, the ED9 sounds downright better, but with some good EQ optimisations, The Earpods are a lot better (the harsh treble the ED9 is really bad... It's worse than I first thought).


----------



## Wiljen

deveraux said:


> I've no idea what tip rolling means.. (forgive me, me noob).


 
  
 Tip rolling is swapping tips from other headphones you have in your collection until you find the pair that fit your ears best.   You might also try Comply foam tips as they can make a world of difference in fit.


----------



## CGrish

deveraux said:


> I've no idea what tip rolling means.. (
> 
> With M8 (No V4A):
> ED9 sounds a little better. Probably because of no V4A.
> ...




What is V4A? it sounds to me your Nexus 6P is equalized to sound best with your Apple Earpods, which in no way are better than the KZhighs The KZ Ed9 has a bit harsh treble when first bought and I highly recommend burning (playing lots of sounds/music for 100-200 hours) them in. The Ed9 has tighter quicker bass, wonderful mids, and sharp treble (not fatiguing after burn in). Meanwhile the Earpods have muddy decent bass, nice warm mids, and horrible treble IMO, no detail. Whatever that V4A thing you're taking about, I'd disable it.


----------



## crabdog

cgrish said:


> What is V4A? it sounds to me your Nexus 6P is equalized to sound best with your Apple Earpods, which in no way are better than the KZhighs The KZ Ed9 has a bit harsh treble when first bought and I highly recommend burning (playing lots of sounds/music for 100-200 hours) them in. The Ed9 has tighter quicker bass, wonderful mids, and sharp treble (not fatiguing after burn in). Meanwhile the Earpods have muddy decent bass, nice warm mids, and horrible treble IMO, no detail. Whatever that V4A thing you're taking about, I'd disable it.


 
 He means Viper4Android.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191223


----------



## rmatech

deveraux said:


> Well, I needed an answer to this question earlier, before buying. Didn't get a proper answer anywhere.
> 
> I got my ED9 today, was excited and was really confident that it'd be really better than the EarPods reading the comments here.
> 
> ...


 

 Had a similar issue with my KZ ZS1, was expecting incredible bass, but was nothing extraordinary and looser than the bass on my xiaomi hybrids which are in now way bass heavy IEMs. Where did you buy it from, I ordered mine from http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.10010108.100005.1.1jnTQi
  
 Did you order from the same place by any chance?


----------



## CGrish

crabdog said:


> He means Viper4Android.
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191223



Huh, I've never heard of it. How does it work? Is it actually good? Might want to get it if it actually improves audio quality somehow


----------



## kaiteck

cgrish said:


> Huh, I've never heard of it. How does it work? Is it actually good? Might want to get it if it actually improves audio quality somehow


 
 i think it improves sound experience,not audio quality.


----------



## Deveraux

wiljen said:


> Tip rolling is swapping tips from other headphones you have in your collection until you find the pair that fit your ears best.   You might also try Comply foam tips as they can make a world of difference in fit.


 
 Oh, I get it now. Thank you.. Unfortunately, I don't have any other earphone I use (been using XB-450 on ear for sometime now [started using headphones/earphones recently])
  


cgrish said:


> What is V4A? it sounds to me your Nexus 6P is equalized to sound best with your Apple Earpods, which in no way are better than the KZhighs The KZ Ed9 has a bit harsh treble when first bought and I highly recommend burning (playing lots of sounds/music for 100-200 hours) them in. The Ed9 has tighter quicker bass, wonderful mids, and sharp treble (not fatiguing after burn in). Meanwhile the Earpods have muddy decent bass, nice warm mids, and horrible treble IMO, no detail. Whatever that V4A thing you're taking about, I'd disable it.


 
 I know, the Earpods with no EQ sounds horrible. But with the right EQ, it sounds so good!
  


rmatech said:


> Had a similar issue with my KZ ZS1, was expecting incredible bass, but was nothing extraordinary and looser than the bass on my xiaomi hybrids which are in now way bass heavy IEMs. Where did you buy it from, I ordered mine from http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152?spm=2114.10010108.100005.1.1jnTQi
> 
> Did you order from the same place by any chance?


 
 Same here! The bass is nothing extraordinary. Funny thing is, after comparing both Earpods and ED9, Earpods provide a more punchy bass! I know most of you won't believe this..
 I ordered from the KZ Official Store (same I guess).
  
 BTW I'm thinking of getting the Hybrids. How are they? Better than the ZS1?


cgrish said:


> Huh, I've never heard of it. How does it work? Is it actually good? Might want to get it if it actually improves audio quality somehow


 
  
 What?? You've never heard of it? Maan, you must definitely try it. It makes a world of a difference. I even use it on my PC too (though it's not as good).
  
  
 Around three years back, I had an a-Jays Two which was supposed to be bass heavy. I was using the stock Galaxy S3 earphones that came with it. And oh boy S3 earphone was as good as the a-Jays (even after tweaking the EQ, the a-Jays was not really better).
  
 I don't understand... But to get a better quality earphone than the so called poor earbuds that bundle with the phones, I've to spend really high? :/


----------



## crabdog

cgrish said:


> Huh, I've never heard of it. How does it work? Is it actually good? Might want to get it if it actually improves audio quality somehow



I'm not certain but think I read you need to root your phone to use it


----------



## To.M

yes, root is a must if you want to use V4A, without root you can test a different app: NOOZXOIDE PRO


----------



## James Freeman

KZ In-Ear Headphone Audio Comparison
  

  
  
Left to right: Philips SHE3590, AWEI Q3, KZ ED9, KZ ATE-S, KZ ZN1-Mini.
  
  

  
  
  
I used a very special method to record the Earphones to sound exactly like they are to a human ear at the ear drum.
It involves a small diaphragm omni pattern condenser microphone with DIY adapters to simulate an ear canal made from several garden hoses  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Then using Pink Noise and Auto-EQ I equalize the most natural sounding earphone (ED9) to sound like the pink noise, after that I fine tune by ear to match the EQed sound to what I hear on my monitors, only fine tuning is required at this stage.
  
 The AWEI is there for comparison because it is also a popular brand on Ebay although it sound terrible, thin and screechy.
 The Philips SHE3590 sound nice but lack in the low end and has some nasally peak in the upper mids.
 The ED9 the most balanced of them all, I like these the most and used the as a reference in these recordings.
 The ZN1-Mini lack any kind of treble and sounded very muffled to me, I don't like them one bit.
 The ATE-S sounded thick and also lacked definition in the treble in comparison to studio monitors or the ED9.
 The ZN1-Mini and ATE-S are very sensitive therefor louder than the rest, although not the best sounding.
  
 If you ask me, ED9 is the most natural and balanced hands down.
  
Without further ado, here is a zip file (14 MB) with wav files:
*http://www.mediafire.com/download/9jd2e2m9wxm0iki/KZ_In-Ear_Comparison.zip*
  
The original audio source is a few seconds of the left channel of *Skin O' My Teeth* by *Megadeth*.
I chose heavy metal because is reflects all the frequencies equally more so than any kind of music.
 I also want to mention the this test should be done on speakers or headphones that you are very familiar with; studio monitors are strongly suggested as they are flat to begin with.
  
Hope you find this test useful.
  
  
P.S
I freaking hate figured earphones, they are pointing to the wrong direction and I can't get a good seal with my ear canal!
The ear canal goes back NOT front, then why ALL of them are curved forward???
 I strongly dislike shaped/figured over-ear earphones, if I wanted the cable behind my ear I would just rotate the earphone upside down and pull the cable behind my ear.
 It's straight or nothing.
 Rant over.


----------



## James Freeman

*Measurements*
  
  


 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-frequency-response-part-one#Gz3bKXxMR1AZu8Bv.97
  
  
 The first image is my measurements of the three KZ I own with 1K as reference frequency.
 The second image is Harman's Curve of a completely flat speaker measured on the ear drum, which is basically the ideal curve for headphones to sound like the perfect speakers in a perfect room.
 The link is a must read for headphones lovers and what considered Flat to our ear; information about Harman's curve.
  
 Just by quickly looking at the first graph you can see that the ED9 are *VERY* close to what a perfect headphones should sound like.
 The descend from 3k to 10k should be smooth, a bass boost from 200Hz down should present.
 I have no idea how the Chinese achieved that result with the ED9 but it is almost perfect, BUT it needs a small tweak to bring its full potential.
  
 I use the Bass (short) nozzle with my ED9 plus *added foam* to remove the small resonance at 14k and flatten the response.
 The Normal (long) nozzle has a very high 10k peak that doesn't behave well, like the other KZ headphones on the graph.
 So if you don't like your ED9 initially try to add some more foam till they sound smooth and balanced to you.
 I cut a strip of foam and shoved it with a toothpick in the middle so it folded in half when entered the nozzle.
 If the sound is too muffled compared to your beloved speakers or other headphones just remove the foam strip and cut a small corner from it and reinsert.
 Note that you really want to compare the ED9 to some quality speaker; if you don't like how the ED9 sounds after the tweaks you reference speakers are crap.
  
 Note that I don't use a professional dummy head but several diameter garden hoses (one inside the other) on a mic.
 Cheap but effective! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  
  
 Anyway, if you have doubt about what headphone to get first go with the ED9, pack some more foam into the Bass nozzle till it sounds balanced, enjoy.
 Or better yet, measure till it looks smooth and then fine tune.


----------



## CADCAM

james freeman said:


> *Measurements*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This exactly what I did with my ED9 back in the day. I've said this before but first the tiny filter on the inside diameter of the brass nozzle must be in position and stuck down...not curled up, I also used a bit of air filter material that is white on the outside and blue on the inside (see pic). I cut small pieces and added and\or removed until I hit the sweet spot. The ED9 continues to be one of my favorite iem's.
  

  
 White and blue have different pore size...white is larger I believe and blue having smaller pores. Good for experimenting.


----------



## EISENbricher

Waiting for KZ to release something new.... much time passed since last releases.


----------



## Podster

I'm with you CAD, ED9 still the top of the heap for me in the KZ's I've owned or still own
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 I might add I've tried a few as many of you know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Appreciate all the hard work and testing James


----------



## Gussisaurio

eisenbricher said:


> Waiting for KZ to release something new.... much time passed since last releases.


 
 Oh, not yet. Please let my wallet recover first.


----------



## lesp4ul

Hi, beside hds1, what other latest kz iem for jazz? I already own ate, ed9, ed10, ed3. Thanks.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> *Measurements*
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-frequency-response-part-one#Gz3bKXxMR1AZu8Bv.97
> 
> ...


 

 Appreciate all the work but...
  
 1) We all have different hearing.
 2) Different tips (fit & bore size) and ear-canal physical differences affect sound result.
 3) FR graphs don`t paint the whole picture about IEM SQ. For me it tells only about 1/3 of IEM sound quality.
 4) Perfect speakers in perfect room isn`t same as perfectly sealed IEM in ear.
 5) Everything isn`t always measurable. Waterfall FR graphs will show more but it`s hard to paint picture about imaging/transparency/separation/soundstage with just FR graphs.
  
 It`s worth nothing to others but my personal subjective opinion is that ED9 are slightly V-shaped signature (even after foam mod with both nozzles) and imaging/soundstage is slightly inferior to ATE(translucent black non-S version), also ED9 highs can be slightly harsh and sibilance at times. I`ve had 4 ED9`s and differences are non-existent (even after burn-in).
 Though, all the ones I had(have) are silver/shiny ones.
  
 My personal opinion about balanced KZ IEMs: ANV > ED10 > ED9(brass/longer nozzle with foam)
  
 Just my 2 cents


----------



## crabdog

lesp4ul said:


> Hi, beside hds1, what other latest kz iem for jazz? I already own ate, ed9, ed10, ed3. Thanks.


 
 Maybe try the EDR2. It's pretty good.


----------



## Gussisaurio

james freeman said:


> KZ In-Ear Headphone Audio Comparison
> 
> Without further ado, here is a zip file (14 MB) with wav files:
> *http://www.mediafire.com/download/9jd2e2m9wxm0iki/KZ_In-Ear_Comparison.zip*


 
  
 Hi James. Thanks for sharing your research with us. Very interesting. I have a couple questions.
  
 1. Are these recording done with or without the EQ applied? (The one you say you adjusted with pink noise)
 2. Are your frequency response measurements done with or without the EQ applied?
 3. What is the length of the ear canal (garden hose) you used?
  
 Thanks!!!


----------



## James Freeman

gussisaurio said:


> Hi James. Thanks for sharing your research with us. Very interesting. I have a couple questions.
> 
> 1. Are these recording done with or without the EQ applied? (The one you say you adjusted with pink noise)
> 2. Are your frequency response measurements done with or without the EQ applied?
> ...


 

 Hi.
  
 1. The recordings are done without EQ; the EQ is applied later to sound like what I hear in my ears and what you hear on the recording.
 2. Frequency response measurements are Without EQ only through my adapter straight into the mic, if I would show you the corrected ED9 curve it would by absolutely flat because it was my reference.
  
 3. The length is about 1cm not the standard of 1" or 2.5cm like human ear.
 What you see on the measurement graphs is by no means a reference or what a professional acoustic dummy head will record, it is meant only to show how smooth the response of the headphone is and general shape of the frequency response.
 The db values on the graph mean absolutely nothing, and change drastically with the length of the hose (ear canal) and its material.
  
 What I did was to cut the piece of hose to fit with my mic capsule diameter so that the center resonance frequency of the canal was in 3k like the Harman's graph or like a real human ear canal.
 My reference was the ED9 so I used a Auto-ED plug-in that can auto equalize a Source frequency response to a Target frequency response.
 The source was a pink noise and it EQed the ED9 to sound exactly like the pink noise so what you hear on the ED9 track is basically the original source recording.
 If the ED9 was the reference (EQed flat) you can understand that all other earphones are in reference to it.
  
 If I were to use the ZN1-Mini as reference and EQ it flat, all other earphones would sound ear piercing with tons of treble.


----------



## Gussisaurio

james freeman said:


> Hi.
> 
> 1. The recordings are done without EQ; the EQ is applied later to sound like what I hear in my ears and what you hear on the recording.
> 2. Frequency response measurements are Without EQ only through my adapter straight into the mic, if I would show you the corrected ED9 curve it would by absolutely flat because it was my reference.
> ...


 

 Let me see If I understand:
  
 1. About the recordings:
 1.1: First, you mount the hose around the microphone.
 1.2: Then, you mount the IEM inside the hose.
 1.3: You do not apply any EQ at all.
 1.4: You start recording the microphone signal.
 1.5: Then, you push play on "Skin O' My Teeth"
 At this point you save the recordings, and those are the exact same you shared with us?
  
 2. About the frequency response graphs.
 2.1: First, you mount the hose around the microphone.
 2.2: Then, you mount the IEM inside the hose.
 2.3: You do not apply any EQ at all.
 2.4: By some means you measure the frequency response.
 2.5 You graph the frequency response "as-is", without doing any kind of compensation.
 At this point you save the graphs and those are the exact same you shared with us?
  
 3. About the EQ on the ED9.
 After you finish steps 1 and 2, you apply EQ to the ED9?
 Would you please explain to me again, why are you applying EQ to the ED9? I mean, to what purpose?
 Are you applying that EQ just to slightly correct the ED9 to match the flat response of your monitors? That would be to obtain an EQ setting that would give you flat frequency response music playing?
  
 Or did I just got everything wrong?


----------



## James Freeman

1.6 Apply EQ.
 1.7 Export to wav.
  
 2. correct.
  
 3. No.
 I apply EQ so that the ED9 through the mic to look EXACTLY like the pure pink noise after the Auto EQ pug-in.
 I send a pink noise to the EQ as a Source.
 I send a pink noise through the ED9 and the Mic as a Target.
 I tell the Auto EQ to equalize the Target to look exactly like the Source.
 The result is the "pink noise->ED9->mic->EQ" spectrum looks exactly the same as just pink noise to the analyzer.
  
 Now I have a "Source->ED9->Mic->EQ" loop that sound exactly the same as a pure Source.
 The EQ corrects the "ED9->Mic" part to sound like the Source.
  
 Makes sense?
  
*EDIT:*
 Some info about making your house and tuning it.
  
 A longer hose will lower the resonance frequency, a shorter one will raise it.
 A narrower hose will also lower the resonance frequency.
 The Bass will remain the same.
  
 To find the perfect hose length to match the average human 3k peak resonance I ran pink noise through the studio monitors and placed a mic at my head position.
 Looking at a frequency analyzer I cut pieces of the hose with scissors and replaced the mic to head level till the resonance peak was at 3k.
 *Luckily, my old hose was tuned exactly to 3k so the measurements I've posted are still valid.


----------



## CADCAM

coil said:


> Appreciate all the work but...
> 
> 1) We all have different hearing.
> 2) Different tips (fit & bore size) and ear-canal physical differences affect sound result.
> ...


 
 Wow! we all do hear differently don't we...I could never rate the ED10 above the ED9. I bought 3 pair of the ED10 when they first came out and was initially pleased with them but each consecutive listen brought new problems for me. I found the treble harsh and the overall presentation of the music just not to my personal tastes. The ED9 on the other hand never ceased to impress me, yes I detected the harshness in the treble but due to the design of the brass nozzles I was able to add and\or remove material to create a very pleasing detailed high end. I also appreciate the mids and lows of the ED9. They continue to sit on my desk ready for action instead of the iem drawer. 
 That's the great thing about this hobby... that one member can find musical enjoyment in one hp that another may not. Works great for the manufactures as well.
 Happy listening


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Wow! we all do hear differently don't we...I could never rate the ED10 above the ED9. I bought 3 pair of the ED10 when they first came out and was initially pleased with them but each consecutive listen brought new problems for me. I found the treble harsh and the overall presentation of the music just not to my personal tastes. The ED9 on the other hand never ceased to impress me, yes I detected the harshness in the treble but due to the design of the brass nozzles I was able to add and\or remove material to create a very pleasing detailed high end. I also appreciate the mids and lows of the ED9. They continue to sit on my desk ready for action instead of the iem drawer.
> That's the great thing about this hobby... that one member can find musical enjoyment in one hp that another may not. Works great for the manufactures as well.
> Happy listening


 

 I'm with you CAD however I also understand where Coil is coming from but as long as we all remember we hear things differently the is no harm or foul
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I've stated many times for my hearing nothing has unseated my ED9's in the KZ lineup to date but they will produce more and hopefully get even better than what they have offered so far
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There will always be a pair of mic'd ED9's in my car for all errands


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> I'm with you CAD however I also understand where Coil is coming from but as long as we all remember we hear things differently the is no harm or foul
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed...have you heard the ED3c? Might have asked before if so apologies but it may be my favorite KZ right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 along with the 9's. Just does so many things right for the price, smooth with nice bass and decent highs. I don't find it too laid back and polite on my system.
 Still lusting for the black ED9... they look sexy!


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Agreed...have you heard the ED3c? Might have asked before if so apologies but it may be my favorite KZ right now :eek: along with the 9's. Just does so many things right for the price, smooth with nice bass and decent highs. I don't find it too laid back and polite on my system.
> Still lusting for the black ED9... they look sexy!




Yeah the ED3c ACME and EDR2 were my last KZ's and to be fair I have not really put any burn on either yet nor given them much time

My FI OOTB on the 3c I can hear they can reach pretty far into each freq. range and I have high hopes after a good 120-150 hours they unseat the HDS1 for me. 


I've put the EDR2's in two or three time now and they sound a little thin and missing even across the board sound I hear (who knows if I can even hear) I had seen a few post and had higher expectations for the EDR2's. But burning them in because a couple of KZ's had a major SQ change after 100 plus hours

It's this stuff right here that keeps me trying incpensive Chinese iem's


----------



## James Freeman

I want to try the ED3c (Acme red/blue) but also found the S3 which is grey and also says Acme.
  
 So we have 3 version as mentioned many times on this thread.
  
 ED3 Perfection, old version known to sound bad, or am I wrong?
 ED3c Acme, very balanced and sound excellent but only in Red or Light Blue... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 S3 Acme, only one seller on Aliexpress with a computer generated image (no real photo)? Very strange, suspicious I am...
  
 Anything I should know before I buy?


----------



## crabdog

james freeman said:


> I want to try the ED3c (Acme red/blue) but also found the S3 which is grey and also says Acme.
> 
> So we have 3 version as mentioned many times on this thread.
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder if that's the KZ ED4S you're seeing?
http://www.lazada.co.th/kz-ed4s-wired-noise-cancellation-in-ear-earphones-silver-5160217.html


----------



## James Freeman

Just ordered the ED3c, HDS1, EDSE.
 Along with the previous lot I'll have ED9, ATE-S, ZN1-Mini, EDSE, HDS1, ED3c.
  
 When they arrive I will post a full audio comparison along with frequency responses and personal opinion.





 
  
 BTW, I'm open to requests about measurements and song choice for comparison.


----------



## Legislative

That's the problem with cheap Chinese headphones , they're habit forming


----------



## lesp4ul

Two of the best KZ in my opinion, ATE with foam & ED9 gold nozzle + spinfit cable reterminate with nickel jack... hds1, edr2 are still shipment.


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Yeah the ED3c ACME and EDR2 were my last KZ's and to be fair I have not really put any burn on either yet nor given them much time
> 
> My FI OOTB on the 3c I can hear they can reach pretty far into each freq. range and I have high hopes after a good 120-150 hours they unseat the HDS1 for me.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with you on the EDR2...so far it hasn't lived up to the expectations I had after reading some posts about it. To be fair I also haven't given it the time to really make a good assessment. It's on my to do list. I can't believe we are talking about 10 dollar iem's here...


----------



## CADCAM

james freeman said:


> I want to try the ED3c (Acme red/blue) but also found the S3 which is grey and also says Acme.
> 
> So we have 3 version as mentioned many times on this thread.
> 
> ...


 
 My experience is ED3 Perfection had great build and good sound... nothing bad and certainly worth the 6 bucks I paid for them but I gave them away.
 ED3c is one of my top KZ's if not the top. Mine are blue and sound fantasic.
 Bought 2 pairs of S3 and sold both...just didn't happen for me and not sure why. Personal preference.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> My experience is ED3 Perfection had great build and good sound... nothing bad and certainly worth the 6 bucks I paid for them but I gave them away.
> ED3c is one of my top KZ's if not the top. Mine are blue and sound fantasic.
> Bought 2 pairs of S3 and sold both...just didn't happen for me and not sure why. Personal preference.


 

 True, the Perfection is one heavy and built like a tank iem. They have a much more laid back presentation for me but as you said for $6 they absolute romp on what I call the over the counter iem's like Skull Candy and all the other cheap plastic housing iem's that usually cost twice or three times these KZ's! I'm still behind on really giving the ACME's a real test for the money as you will
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm keeping them for now as they are burning in my first problem with mine were the QC as my red paint was all chipped on mine and the seller was offering to put $3 back into my Pay Pal but was not even worth my time, if I end up really liking the ACME I'll order a new red and a blue pair w/mic
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I write this I do have another KZ that reminds me of the Perfections SS but I won't let these go because I think they are the coolest looking KZ and I'm referring to the DT5 (Black shell, red tips and the gold band with the Chinese writing on it just looks like a Chinese iem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


 I keep these displayed in my office


----------



## vapman

You guys know those tiny little velcro things the KZ's come with the hold the cords together.... can you buy those buy themselves anywhere?
  
 I want to get a whole bunch for all my IEM and earbuds. If I can just buy a bag of like 100 of them that would rule.


----------



## krist2an

Just got the ED10 from Easy. Really well packed and the shipping was also fast. 
  
 Tried them already and for me they are definitely bass-heavy. I'd say that they are quite bright and have quite piercing highs with some songs. Bass is there, but not overly too much. Mids are a bit recessed. Lets see how they sound after some hours and with different tips, but right now they are far from basshead IEMs.


----------



## Podster

vapman said:
			
		

> .You guys know those tiny little velcro things the KZ's come with the hold the cords together.... can you buy those buy themselves anywhere?
> 
> I want to get a whole bunch for all my IEM and earbuds. If I can just buy a bag of like 100 of them that would rule.




Bet if you contact Teresa they'll do that for you Twin can probably assist


----------



## vapman

podster said:


> Bet if you contact Teresa they'll do that for you Twin can probably assist


 

 Anyone who has a ton of them laying around, feel free to PM me and i could pay for your envelope and stamp


----------



## Gussisaurio

james freeman said:


> I want to try the ED3c (Acme red/blue) but also found the S3 which is grey and also says Acme.
> 
> So we have 3 version as mentioned many times on this thread.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have all three on order:
  
 ED3
 ED3c (blue)
 S3 (from the same only seller from AE you mention)
  
 I could tell you when I get them... still on transit.


----------



## Gussisaurio

crabdog said:


> I wonder if that's the KZ ED4S you're seeing?
> http://www.lazada.co.th/kz-ed4s-wired-noise-cancellation-in-ear-earphones-silver-5160217.html


 
  
 Nop, that one on your link seems to be the ED4 Silver.
 The S3 would be the one at:
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-S3-Headset-in-bass-rock-Headset-Headset-metal-HIFI-mobile-phone-computer-Headset-trend/32541015697.html


----------



## Gussisaurio

vapman said:


> You guys know those tiny little velcro things the KZ's come with the hold the cords together.... can you buy those buy themselves anywhere?
> 
> I want to get a whole bunch for all my IEM and earbuds. If I can just buy a bag of like 100 of them that would rule.


 
  
 Me too. I want those velcro things desperately. But I couldn't find them on AE on their own.


----------



## vapman

gussisaurio said:


> Me too. I want those velcro things desperately. But I couldn't find them on AE on their own.


 

 I'm sure if we make it known that we would like to buy big bags of them, they would sell them to us.
  
 I thought it was just me but if a lot of people would like those then they should!


----------



## Gussisaurio

Thanks for the answer, James. I almost get it now, but there are a couple details that still elude my understanding. Would you please explain to me the following?
  
 Quote:


james freeman said:


> 1.6 Apply EQ.


 
  
 1. So far as I understand, the recording you made for the ED9 would be one, if you were playing white or pink noise, with a flat frequency response once you apply this EQ curve, right?
 2. Hence, for the specific recording of the ED9 you are not hearing how does the ED9 sound, but instead you hear the exact same sound as in the original audio from the song, right?
 3. Why do you apply this ED9 specific EQ curve to the other IEM's recordings? Would you get flat frequency response for all IEM's using the ED9 specific EQ curve? Wouldn't you need a specific EQ curve for every earphone? (This is probably the main aspect I don't understand).
  


james freeman said:


> 2. correct.


 
  
 1. Ok, then. If you have the uncompensated graph for the frequency response of each IEM, recorded with a hose, that would be analogous to have the recording of each IEM's sound at the eardrum? Is that so? Even when your hose is only 1 cm long, but the human ear canal is 2.5 cm long? 
 2. The Harman curve stands for the frequency response you would get at the eardrum coming from loudspeakers in a room and being filtered by such room and then by the interaction of the sound with the head, torso and ears (pinna), and then by the ear canal. Hence, you are calling the ED9 to be the most approximate to the loudspeaker case since the ED9's frequency response using your ear canal simulator (hose) gives the most similar curve? Do I get this right?
  


james freeman said:


> 3. No.
> I apply EQ so that the ED9 through the mic to look EXACTLY like the pure pink noise after the Auto EQ pug-in.
> I send a pink noise to the EQ as a Source.
> I send a pink noise through the ED9 and the Mic as a Target.
> ...


 
  
 Neat. Is this Auto EQ plug in part of Waves plug-ins? Or is it from somewhere else?
  


james freeman said:


> Now I have a "Source->ED9->Mic->EQ" loop that sound exactly the same as a pure Source.
> The EQ corrects the "ED9->Mic" part to sound like the Source.
> 
> Makes sense?


 
  
 Yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


james freeman said:


> A longer hose will lower the resonance frequency, a shorter one will raise it.
> A narrower hose will also lower the resonance frequency.
> The Bass will remain the same.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree on the part where the longer hose has a lower resonance frequency, and a shorter one gets a higher frequency. However, I would have predicted the resonance frequency to be lower when the hose gets wider, not narrower, since you have more volume. Do you have an equation, link, source, book, reference for this? (thanks in advance)


----------



## nolife1123

I found those velcro zip ties on aliexpress before, however they were huge in size, but i also found a whole wheel of those tapes uncut, so you could cut them down to your prefered sizes!
Expect a link later !


----------



## James Freeman

> 1. So far as I understand, the recording you made for the ED9 would be one, if you were playing white or pink noise, with a flat frequency response once you apply this EQ curve, right?
> 2. Hence, for the specific recording of the ED9 you are not hearing how does the ED9 sound, but instead you hear the exact same sound as in the original audio from the song, right?
> 3. Why do you apply this ED9 specific EQ curve to the other IEM's recordings? Would you get flat frequency response for all IEM's using the ED9 specific EQ curve? Wouldn't you need a specific EQ curve for every earphone? (This is probably the main aspect I don't understand).


 
 1. yes.
 2. right, this effectively eliminates the ED9 from having any kind of character because it IS the source = flat.
 3. The ED9 was a reference so it is EQed flat, one of them HAS to be the reference because there is no other way I am aware of making the comparison sound good like the source or what your ear would hear.
 All other earphones have the ED9 EQ so you hear the difference in contrast to the ED9, this indeed eliminates the ED9 from the comparison because it is just flat as the source.
 But the point is to have an idea what the other earphones sound in comparison to one another.
 If I would have chosen the ZN1-Mini as a reference which has absolutely no treble response, all other headphones would have sounded razor sharp in comparison.
  


> 1. Ok, then. If you have the uncompensated graph for the frequency response of each IEM, recorded with a hose, that would be analogous to have the recording of each IEM's sound at the eardrum? Is that so? Even when your hose is only 1 cm long, but the human ear canal is 2.5 cm long?
> 2. The Harman curve stands for the frequency response you would get at the eardrum coming from loudspeakers in a room and being filtered by such room and then by the interaction of the sound with the head, torso and ears (pinna), and then by the ear canal. Hence, you are calling the ED9 to be the most approximate to the loudspeaker case since the ED9's frequency response using your ear canal simulator (hose) gives the most similar curve? Do I get this right?


 
 1. Yes BUT, this is a rough approximation.
 Since the original measurements I've posted I changed the hose length to something like 1.4cm.
 I player a pink noise on my monitors and looked at a spectrum analyzer to see the response with a 2.5cm hose, it was around 2k, I had to shorten the hose bit by bit to have a 3k peak, this is based on the known fact the the human ear resonates at 3k.
 Note that the capsule size of my mic tice the diameter of the canal and that also has an effect on the measurement.
 The smallest hose (black) is the hose that simulates the ear canal all other are just adapters to fit the mic.
  
 2. Yes.
 But, keep in mind that these readings are far from accurate and can not be considered scientific in any way.
 What I tried to see in those measurement is how smooth the frequency response is, because Harman's curve is smooth without peaks or variations.
 The smoothest one from the bunch is the ED9 and I think this is why it sounds the most natural practically to us all.
 I can also roughly guesstimate from this graph what the Bass to Treble balance would sound like and indeed it reflects what I hear quite well.
  
 Again, in my opinion and from what I see in Harman's curve, it's the smoothness of the curve that matters the most and will translate to how good the earphones sound.


> Is this Auto EQ plug in part of Waves plug-ins? Or is it from somewhere else?


 
 http://www.meldaproduction.com/MAutoEqualizer
  


> I agree on the part where the longer hose has a lower resonance frequency, and a shorter one gets a higher frequency. However, I would have predicted the resonance frequency to be lower when the hose gets wider, not narrower, since you have more volume. Do you have an equation, link, source, book, reference for this? (thanks in advance).


 
 Nope, just experimenting.


----------



## nolife1123

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5M-Nylon-Roll-Reusable-Strap-Wire-Computer-Cable-Cord-Tie-Tidy-Organizer-Down/32467430320.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000014.24.yynJ1y
 That's what I found earlier, there are a lot of different ones out there on aliex, different sizes, cut ones etc, but I guess this one is fairly decent due to it being 5 meters long, you can decide how long you want your cuts to be (and how wide, ofcourse)!


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> True, the Perfection is one heavy and built like a tank iem. They have a much more laid back presentation for me but as you said for $6 they absolute romp on what I call the over the counter iem's like Skull Candy and all the other cheap plastic housing iem's that usually cost twice or three times these KZ's! I'm still behind on really giving the ACME's a real test for the money as you will
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lovin' that case...


----------



## duo8

Are the HDS1 comfortable? How's the isolation?
 It's either this, ED9 or ED3 youth for me, I heard they are similarly bright.


----------



## B9Scrambler

duo8 said:


> Are the HDS1 comfortable? How's the isolation?
> It's either this, ED9 or ED3 youth for me, I heard they are similarly bright.




HDS1 is very small, light, and supremely comfortable. Isolation is not fantastic given the three vents in the back.

The ED3 Youth/"The Acme"/c is not at all bright, with focus on mids/bass. They are very warm and smooth. Great iem. The original ED3 "Perfection" is pretty treble heavy and light on bass. It too is great, but not for the same reasons.

The ED9...well you can't go wrong with those


----------



## harry218

Hey guys, I just received my ATE without mic from GearBest. I'm just wondering if my unit is legit because the font on body is a little bit different. The L and R are also very hard to read like printed very poorly. The packaging and the cable look okay to me. I also noticed the sound is a little bit bassier than I expected. I never tried KZ phones before, just want to keep it as a backup to my GR07 MKII. So maybe it is bassier than I normally used to.


----------



## kaiteck

harry218 said:


> Hey guys, I just received my ATE without mic from GearBest. I'm just wondering if my unit is legit because the font on body is a little bit different. The L and R are also very hard to read like printed very poorly. The packaging and the cable look okay to me. I also noticed the sound is a little bit bassier than I expected. I never tried KZ phones before, just want to keep it as a backup to my GR07 MKII. So maybe it is bassier than I normally used to.


 
 Yup kz ate is a little bit warm and bassy. it should be legit set. I do remember mine was printed a bit poorly as well.


----------



## gvekiaris

I want to buy earphones with microphone for my smartphone. 
  
 Give me proposals and links Including KZ and other earphones...  Price around 10 and less USD 
  
 What about TUNA earphones? 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-X1-Original-headset-professional-in-ear-headphones-Metal-heavy-bass-sound-quality-Music-earphone-HIFI/1974879251.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000014.6.3HQdHx


----------



## Podster

harry218 said:


> Hey guys, I just received my ATE without mic from GearBest. I'm just wondering if my unit is legit because the font on body is a little bit different. The L and R are also very hard to read like printed very poorly. The packaging and the cable look okay to me. I also noticed the sound is a little bit bassier than I expected. I never tried KZ phones before, just want to keep it as a backup to my GR07 MKII. So maybe it is bassier than I normally used to.




They are legit and as a back up to the hard to read L & R KZ was kind enough to put a red ring and a blue ring on the brass barrel where the cable is secured to the shells for the price the ATE is a very good all around iem but fir me they excel in vocals Enjoy and they will tighten up very nice after 40-50 hours.

Enjoy


----------



## Wiljen

Beginning to think the last few sets are ordered are being delivered from China via canoe.  The wait is torture.


----------



## Podster

wiljen said:


> Beginning to think the last few sets are ordered are being delivered from China via canoe.  The wait is torture.




LOL, welcome to the world of budget Chinese iem's You have heard the old expression "Slow boat from China" no?


----------



## Gussisaurio

gvekiaris said:


> I want to buy earphones with microphone for my smartphone.
> 
> Give me proposals and links Including KZ and other earphones...  Price around 10 and less USD
> 
> ...


 

 Can't comment yet, mine are still on order.


----------



## TwoPalms

KZ HDS1 is very good earphone, nothing wrong until I buy remax rm-600m with dual BA driver. HDS1 mid feel veiled after listening remax. There is any other KZ earphone that have better mid than HDS1?


----------



## mur3633

Hi, 
I bought ED9 for me and they are great. 
My friend told me that he wants to buy good KZ headphones. He listens house, dance, hip hop etc. He wants some good bass, but no lack of mid and trebles. What do you recommend?
Thanks.


----------



## gvekiaris

gussisaurio said:


> Can't comment yet, mine are still on order.


 
  Which exactly model of Tuna are you waiting for? 
 Any other earphones for smart phones? 
 Proposals for good quality earphones around 10 USD


----------



## Gussisaurio

gvekiaris said:


> Which exactly model of Tuna are you waiting for?
> Any other earphones for smart phones?
> Proposals for good quality earphones around 10 USD


 
  
 Tuna S6 White (looks gorgeous) & Tuna F1. Still on transit. I thought I had ordered the Tuna G3 also on the last sale, but apparently not, I didn't.
  
 For smartphone, just order the KZ ED2 like everybody else, to begin with, at least. Amazing sound for like USD$7.00. If you love it, then others would recommend KZ ATE, KZ ED9, and KZ ED10.  This is a KZ thread after all.


----------



## gvekiaris

gussisaurio said:


> Tuna S6 White (looks gorgeous) & Tuna F1. Still on transit. I thought I had ordered the Tuna G3 also on the last sale, but apparently not, I didn't.
> 
> For smartphone, just order the KZ ED2 like everybody else, to begin with, at least. Amazing sound for like USD$7.00. If you love it, then others would recommend KZ ATE, KZ ED9, and KZ ED10.  This is a KZ thread after all.


 
 give me link for Tuna S6 and Tuna F1
  
 i think that KZ ED2 does not have microphone
  
 is there a difference betwwen ED2 and EDR2 ?


----------



## CoiL

gussisaurio said:


> gvekiaris said:
> 
> 
> > I want to buy earphones with microphone for my smartphone.
> ...


 

 Isn`t Tuna IEMs just a rebranded KZ with different cables/color and they have also included some other brands into bunch?
 For me KZ is KZ and Tuna something else.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> harry218 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, I just received my ATE without mic from GearBest. I'm just wondering if my unit is legit because the font on body is a little bit different. The L and R are also very hard to read like printed very poorly. The packaging and the cable look okay to me. I also noticed the sound is a little bit bassier than I expected. I never tried KZ phones before, just want to keep it as a backup to my GR07 MKII. So maybe it is bassier than I normally used to.
> ...


 

 Also, use ATE with wide-bore silicone tips instead stock foam tips. To increase bass & percussion tightness and kick - make port holes smaller or over-lap with some tiny piece of almost "air-proof" material. To get slightly more micro details and highs - remove nozzle grill. For slightly better imaging/soundstage and airiness make them open-back.


----------



## Sylmar

I love my ATE's but I keep wondering how they compare to Shure E215. Or is it in a whole different league altogether which leads me to the question: should I upgrade?


----------



## Podster

sylmar said:


> I love my ATE's but I keep wondering how they compare to Shure E215. Anyone any experience? Should I upgrade?


 

 The ATE's are good but they are not the SE215, I find the Shure's to be more refined and smoother sounding then the ATE's but then again you are talking minimum 5 times less coin layout as well
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Excuse those knarly tips


----------



## Sylmar

podster said:


> The ATE's are good but they are not the SE215, I find the Shure's to be more refined and smoother sounding then the ATE's but then again you are talking minimum 5 times less coin layout as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the comparison! I do love the ATE's but I am missing some details indeed. Still a good deal of course. I guess I'll be upgrading in the near future. Some nice cases you got there by the way.


----------



## Podster

sylmar said:


> Thanks for the comparison! I do love the ATE's but I am missing some details indeed. Still a good deal of course. I guess I'll be upgrading in the near future. Some nice cases you got there by the way.


 

 THX, the Shure case came with them and the other one is the KZ case that AliEx has for about $0.89 each
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yikes, they went up $0.17
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-KZ-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Box-Headphones-Portable-Storage-Case-Bag-Headphone-Accessories-Headset/32374501717.html


----------



## Sylmar

podster said:


> THX, the Shure case came with them and the other one is the KZ case that AliEx has for about $0.89 each
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the link! I guess you bought them during the AliEx sale? That's when I bought my ATE's. Ah well I might buy those cases anyway.


----------



## hungragezone

I owned a KZ ED10 one. Out of the box, It feels like a lot of bass. But after 100hours of burn-in, im very suprise that the bass is almost different, i don't see alot of bass anymore, sound is more clear now. Anyone here have the same experience with me 
 /sorry for the bad english


----------



## crabdog

Not sure if QKZ DM3 have been discussed here yet but after receiving a message on AE from KZ store I had a look. Was very surprised to see this in the description:
  

amazing sound quality
*kill $400 level earphone*
  
 Only $6.99! That's quite a claim considering the price point. Has anyone tried these yet?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-QKZ-DM3-Luxury-Stereo-Headphones-Headset-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphone-With-Mic-For/32612255082.html
  
 Got to say I like the look of that cable too.


----------



## EISENbricher

crabdog said:


> Not sure if QKZ DM3 have been discussed here yet but after receiving a message on AE from KZ store I had a look. Was very surprised to see this in the description:
> 
> 
> amazing sound quality
> ...


 
 Haha... that page has a screenshot image of review section of some other product xD Quite legit lol
 IMO a lame publicity attempt by the seller.


----------



## duo8

I wish there's one that has ED9's sound in ATE's form. The ATE just looks so much more comfortable, but I want the bright and detailed sound of the ED9.


----------



## Sylmar

duo8 said:


> I wish there's one that has ED9's sound in ATE's form. The ATE just looks so much more comfortable, but I want the bright and detailed sound of the ED9.


 
 Indeed. I wish they would bring out more IEMs with ATE's form factor. And they should get rid of the comic sans markings.


----------



## nhlean96

crabdog said:


> Not sure if QKZ DM3 have been discussed here yet but after receiving a message on AE from KZ store I had a look. Was very surprised to see this in the description:
> 
> 
> amazing sound quality
> ...


 
 Wow, it looks identical to the TENNMAK Banjo


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> Not sure if QKZ DM3 have been discussed here yet but after receiving a message on AE from KZ store I had a look. Was very surprised to see this in the description:
> 
> 
> amazing sound quality
> ...


 

 I don't want to say some of the Chinese sellers suffer from delusions of grandeur but........................................
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will say some have come darn close to spanking some $60-$70 iem's IMHO
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't know you Duo8 but you are spot on about the ED9 sound
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OK, I'll admit I'm jaded on the ED9
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sylmar, a buck 6 is still not a bad price for that case


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> I don't want to say some of the Chinese sellers suffer from delusions of grandeur but........................................:rolleyes: I will say some have come darn close to spanking some $60-$70 iem's IMHO:wink_face:
> 
> Don't know you Duo8 but you are spot on about the ED9 sound OK, I'll admit I'm jaded on the ED9
> 
> Sylmar, a buck 6 is still not a bad price for that case




Hey podster have you tried monoprice 8320 (preferably the white ones) already? They are just a tad better than ed9 with a bit more refined sound, bit less highs and that at a kz price of just $7


----------



## Wiljen

ruben123 said:


> Hey podster have you tried monoprice 8320 (preferably the white ones) already? They are just a tad better than ed9 with a bit more refined sound, bit less highs and that at a kz price of just $7


 
  
 Gotta disagree.  To me the Bass and lower mids of the 8320s are way muddier than the ed9.   They were once the king of the cheap IEMs but I think KZ and VE and Fiio with the EM3 have now caught up and past the 8320.  Besides the Ed9 has the 8320 beat all to crap in comfort those things are huge.


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Hey podster have you tried monoprice 8320 (preferably the white ones) already? They are just a tad better than ed9 with a bit more refined sound, bit less highs and that at a kz price of just $7


 

 I have not Ruben and I know they are well liked, maybe one day I'll get a pair to at least say I've tried them and if they do knock off my ED9's I'll have a keeper for sure


----------



## gvekiaris

ruben123 said:


> Hey podster have you tried monoprice 8320 (preferably the white ones) already? They are just a tad better than ed9 with a bit more refined sound, bit less highs and that at a kz price of just $7


 
 Monoprice 8320 is better than KZ ED9? 
 Has microphone? 
 Give us links where to buy


----------



## Ruben123

wiljen said:


> Gotta disagree.  To me the Bass and lower mids of the 8320s are way muddier than the ed9.   They were once the king of the cheap IEMs but I think KZ and VE and Fiio with the EM3 have now caught up and past the 8320.  Besides the Ed9 has the 8320 beat all to crap in comfort those things are huge.


 
  
 Wow muddy is the last thing I would ever call their bass. I would rather call it very neutral (which is anemic for most). Its bass does roll off a bit but I think if you have heard the Havi B3 p1, you will like the MP8320 too. Not muddy at all, just very precise.
  


podster said:


> I have not Ruben and I know they are well liked, maybe one day I'll get a pair to at least say I've tried them and if they do knock off my ED9's I'll have a keeper for sure


 
  
 Certainly do so! In the meantime, a much more expensive (and better) IEM that is internationally available is the Havi.


gvekiaris said:


> Monoprice 8320 is better than KZ ED9?
> Has microphone?
> Give us links where to buy


 
 Available in the US or some Amazon countries. Also eBay does list them.


----------



## Podster

gvekiaris said:


> Monoprice 8320 is better than KZ ED9?
> Has microphone?
> Give us links where to buy


 

 And this is how the fire starts!
  
 Ruben, long time owner of Havi B3 Pro 1's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm pretty much through with budget iem's these days and I happen to love my ED9's for budget but thanks for the Monoprice suggestion


----------



## DangerClose

ED8 looks unique and has been said to sound somewhat unique.  It didn't look all that big when first taking it out of the package, but when it sits next to another IEM, yeah, it's pretty big.  They're not really any less comfortable than EDR2 so far to me since both feel like similar width when in my ears, and stay in my ears.  Though the ED8 is heavier, and they stick out past my ears and probably look kind of weird.  
  
 While currently the soundstage is wide, it makes me want to put a hole in it to get more air in it to try to help the depth, and to make things more "alive" and 3D.  I've only used them a couple hours, so maybe they'll open up a little.  
  
 They're L-shaped, with strong bass but flat for the rest, or maybe slightly recessed mids.  They've been called dark, and that's one way to describe it, but so far I think they're not warm enough and the highs are bright enough that they're more neutral + bass hump.  
  
 Panasonic HJE125 have less bass but with stronger mids and rolled highs are dark compared to ED8.  
  
 Rock Zircon is bassier and warmer to the point of muddiness in comparison to ED8, like the vocals are constantly trying to overcome the low end.  I don't really want to call the Zircon muddy, it's more that the low end/warmth is thicker and always present.
  
 I wasn't happy with the EDR2 at first.  The mids are forward in the upper range yet somewhat thin with recessed lower midrange.  EQ a bit of that in, and they sound fuller while keeping the rest of the things they are good at.  If you do that, it's hard to go wrong with them especially at recent sale prices imo.  Soundstage isn't as wide as ED8, but it's still big. HJE125 sounds more "natural" than both of these, but that doesn't mean HJE125 is as fun as either.


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> And this is how the fire starts!
> 
> Ruben, long time owner of Havi B3 Pro 1's
> 
> ...


 

 Sure I maybe should have PMed you instead but since the Monoprice heat is a bit gone now it couldnt do any harm recommending it to people liking the ED9 and neutral sound on a budget


----------



## DangerClose

People say the ATE leaks.  How much does it leak?  The EDR2 looks like it has lots of little holes in the back, and it leaks a very slight bit if I put my ear near it, but I wouldn't call that leaking.  Probably all of my closed-back headphones leak more.  Some closed-back headphones I wouldn't use for isolation without closing the room's door.
  
 Some leaking/openness is good for outdoor use so you can be aware of your surroundings, but I'm wondering if ATE is so open it's kind of worthless indoors if trying to avoid leaking.  There's closed-back headphone with thin pads leaking, and then there's wide-open AKG 701 leaking.


----------



## Sylmar

dangerclose said:


> People say the ATE leaks.  How much does it leak?  The EDR2 looks like it has lots of little holes in the back, and it leaks a very slight bit if I put my ear near it, but I wouldn't call that leaking.  Probably all of my closed-back headphones leak more.  Some closed-back headphones I wouldn't use for isolation without closing the room's door.
> 
> Some leaking/openness is good for outdoor use so you can be aware of your surroundings, but I'm wondering if ATE is so open it's kind of worthless indoors if trying to avoid leaking.  There's closed-back headphone with thin pads leaking, and then there's wide-open AKG 701 leaking.


 
 I don't think they are leaky. That said I am using my Etymotic HF5 tips with them which are deeper inear.


----------



## To.M

EDR2 has NO holes at all! I have both EDR2 and ATE (black) and none of them leaks, trust me


----------



## Wiljen

my HDS3 arrived today.  Complete departure from the HDS2.   Body is pretty much a ported ED2 in silver instead of black finish.   Design is supposed to be the HDS moving coil / stationary magnet design.   They are burning in for 24 hours now and I'll put a picture and some listening impressions up later this week?   Anybody else snagged the HDS3 yet?


----------



## B9Scrambler

wiljen said:


> my HDS3 arrived today.  Complete departure from the HDS2.   Body is pretty much a ported ED2 in silver instead of black finish.   Design is supposed to be the HDS moving coil / stationary magnet design.   They are burning in for 24 hours now and I'll put a picture and some listening impressions up later this week?   Anybody else snagged the HDS3 yet?




Yup. Have all the HDS series KZs. The HDS3 uses a higher quality version of the HDS1's housing, borrowing the EDR2's design queues. Personally, I think the HDS3 is pretty average at best. Much better than the HDS2 which is overly muddy and dull sounding, but nowhere near as good as the HDS1 or most of the other decent to good KZ's. It's alright overall, with a nice mic and solid cable, but I find it sounds veiled throughout the entire range. I gave it a good go because I like the design and form factor, but the sound quality was too much of a letdown so it just sits in storage with the other subpar KZs.


----------



## Wiljen

b9scrambler said:


> Yup. Have all the HDS series KZs. The HDS3 uses a higher quality version of the HDS1's housing, borrowing the EDR2's design queues. Personally, I think the HDS3 is pretty average at best. Much better than the HDS2 which is overly muddy and dull sounding, but nowhere near as good as the HDS1 or most of the other decent to good KZ's. It's alright overall, with a nice mic and solid cable, but I find it sounds veiled throughout the entire range. I gave it a good go because I like the design and form factor, but the sound quality was too much of a letdown so it just sits in storage with the other subpar KZs.


 

 Well I'll give em a shot and if they match your description they'll go in the bucket for the kids to grab when they break another set.  I have a never ending rotation that way.


----------



## CoiL

dangerclose said:


> The EDR2 looks like it has lots of little holes in the back, and it leaks a very slight bit if I put my ear near it, but I wouldn't call that leaking.  Probably all of my closed-back headphones leak more.


 
  


to.m said:


> EDR2 has NO holes at all!


 
 Yes, confirm that! Just received them and they have just grill-like mesh glued on back, under it there are no holes - EDR2 is closed IEM. Only hole is breathing hole next to cable exits. Thought they have same kind of "grills" as EDSE but no. But they are MUCH lighter than EDSE and made of aluminium which is great!
  
 About SQ of EDR2 - it is good, pretty good... but... from about 20min listening time and some tip rolling (very large bore silicones are a MUST with these), I would say they have very well balanced FR (only very slight V-shape) and above average soundstage... but... they seem to lack in resolution and especially soundstage frontal depth layering and transparency. On sides it is better and pretty nicely spread out but in frontal depth almost everything sounds "as one". They do sound very enjoyable and well tuned for general listeners but someone with better gear and ear can hear the "lack" of them, I`m pretty sure of it. EDR2 doesn`t disappoint me but neither it makes me go "wow" or melt into music. I hope they will improve and "clean up" after some "burn-in" but I doubt it.
 When I switch to my WOM-mod IEM then I notice right away that EDR2 lacked resolution and layering/transparency/separation. Still no KZ for me to beat WOM-mod and I doubt HDS1 or ZN1mini will do it.
 I think I `m done with KZ (except for modification purposes) and will move on with other cheapo-"giant killers" like HLSX-808 (DD+BA), Easy UE (DDD), LZ Z02A or something else...


----------



## DangerClose

coil said:


> Yes, confirm that! Just received them and they have just grill-like mesh glued on back, under it there are no holes - EDR2 is closed IEM. Only hole is breathing hole next to cable exits.
> 
> About SQ of EDR2 - it is good, pretty good... but... from about 20min listening time and some tip rolling (very large bore silicones are a MUST with these), I would say they have very well balanced FR (only very slight V-shape) and above average soundstage... but... they seem to lack in resolution and especially soundstage frontal depth layering and transparency. On sides it is better and pretty nicely spread out but in frontal depth almost everything sounds "as one".


 
  
 I didn't know that hole is there.  Either the leaking I hear is from that "breathing hole," or it's coming through the housing itself.  Actually, they're near me right now, and I can check... it's from both.  If I cover the nozzle with my finger, sound still leaks.  If I cover the nozzle and the breathing hole, it leaks less. So the breathing hole does leak sound, as would be expected from a hole in the housing, and the rest apparently comes through the housing itself.  Like hearing leaking from closed-back headphones with cups made out of thin material. 
  
 Now that I'm listening to them in an even quieter environment than I previously did, I'm kind of surprised how much they leak.  It's still not a lot, but I would hesitate using them at "enjoyable volume" levels if sitting a couple feet from someone in a library or if they're trying to sleep next to you, etc.  It might not be loud that way, but might be a "where is that noise coming from?" kind of thing.  I don't want to overstate how much they leak because it isn't much, but it does exist. 
  
 Getting the ED8 and EDR2 at the same time, I'm surprised at how well the EDR2 does front layering.  3D.  In comparison, anyway.  EDR2 gives things in front more sense of travel.  But now I wonder if the ED8 gives less sense of travel because the soundstage is simply deeper, and things have to move farther in order to be as noticeable.  
  
 I was thinking the ED8 sounded sort of like a wall of 2D.  Wide but flat.  I didn't think the front was excessively deep, but that gives me another excuse to listen to them some more and see.  They only had an hour or two of use on them at the time, so hopefully wanting them to sound a certain way and wanting them to wow me won't bias my judgment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 They've both been burning since then, and I'll have to revisit them.  Even as they sounded out of the box, I liked them both.  Hopefully some more burning will add just that little extra "wow" factor that they almost but don't quite have. That little extra 3D-ness.  That little extra dynamics.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'm surprised at the comments on the EDR2 lacking detail. I found they had outstanding detail and clarity, and not just for a $6 iem. 

Mine is fully sealed as well. The hole by the strain relief was glued shut from the factory.


----------



## CoiL

If You were referring to my early impressions, then I wasn`t talking about detail lacking, details are good. Just frontal soundstage depth layering is kind of "congested" together (with some more complex and layered progressive rock) and it`s harder to hear different layers separately and overall sound resolution isn`t so clean as I wish (slightly veiled?). Though, my EDR2 breathing holes are nicely open and haven`t tested how closing them will affect sound. 
 Edit: for example listening to _Alt-J - This is All Yours_ atm... ambient sounds transparency/layering and room/air-sense isn`t so clean/clear and natural sounding as with modified ATE or WOM-mod, also ED9 and ED10 seem to be slightly better in that. Will leave them playing and hear tomorrow...


----------



## audionoobz

A little background of myself, I usually listen to the billboard 100’s ,edm and some acoustic music. I am also an amatuer and this will be my second pair of iems. The first pair i had was the r6i and i quite liked it but i lost em  . Im open to suggestions and would like you to recommend some to me(doesnt have to be similar to the r6i). It also needs to have good isolation, so which kz would be the best for me? Once again thank you!


----------



## Gussisaurio

gvekiaris said:


> give me link for Tuna S6 and Tuna F1
> 
> i think that KZ ED2 does not have microphone
> 
> is there a difference betwwen ED2 and EDR2 ?


 
  
 1. Tuna S6: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-S6-sports-earphone-mobile-phone-headset-with-microphone-HIFI-noise-cancelling-bass-headsets-music-stereo/32254106178.html
  
 2. Tuna F1: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-X7-interactive-two-unit-headset-mobile-music-headphones-bass-headphones-earphone-compatible-with-all-audio/32241496717.html
  
 3. My KZ ED2 definitely does have a mic. You can order them with or without mic. The mic-less one is approximately USD$1.00 cheaper.
  
 4. We still do not know for sure whether the ED2 and EDR2 are indeed the same earphones, or different.


----------



## Podster

audionoobz said:


> A little background of myself, I usually listen to the billboard 100’s ,edm and some acoustic music. I am also an amatuer and this will be my second pair of iems. The first pair i had was the r6i and i quite liked it but i lost em  . Im open to suggestions and would like you to recommend some to me(doesnt have to be similar to the r6i). It also needs to have good isolation, so which kz would be the best for me? Once again thank you!




My vote would be HDS1


----------



## B9Scrambler

gussisaurio said:


> 1. Tuna S6: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-S6-sports-earphone-mobile-phone-headset-with-microphone-HIFI-noise-cancelling-bass-headsets-music-stereo/32254106178.html
> 
> 2. Tuna F1: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tuna-X7-interactive-two-unit-headset-mobile-music-headphones-bass-headphones-earphone-compatible-with-all-audio/32241496717.html
> 
> ...




ED2 and EDR2 are different. It's the ED2 and EDSE that leads to confusion. The EDR2 uses a light aluminum housing. It's very nice


----------



## Gussisaurio

b9scrambler said:


> ED2 and EDR2 are different. It's the ED2 and EDSE that leads to confusion. The EDR2 uses a light aluminum housing. It's very nice


 

 Oh, thanks!!!
 I stand corrected. I have the ED2, and my EDSE and EDR2 are both on the mail. Hope they get here soon.


----------



## Gussisaurio

james freeman said:


> 1. yes.
> 2. right, this effectively eliminates the ED9 from having any kind of character because it IS the source = flat.
> 3. The ED9 was a reference so it is EQed flat, one of them HAS to be the reference because there is no other way I am aware of making the comparison sound good like the source or what your ear would hear.
> All other earphones have the ED9 EQ so you hear the difference in contrast to the ED9, this indeed eliminates the ED9 from the comparison because it is just flat as the source.
> ...


 
  
 OK, NOW I get it. Very interesting study, indeed.
 Thank you very much for your deeply detailed explanations, James.
 You get a virtual beer, cheers


----------



## Gussisaurio

Hey guys.
 I just got my ED3m and, sadly, it does look "cheap". Low quality.
 It is my first KZ earphone to look so. What a bummer.
  
 See:
 
  
 Does anyone of you have the ED3m? Could you please tell me whether your unit looks like this one?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## dewy22

gussisaurio said:


> Hey guys.
> I just got my ED3m and, sadly, it does look "cheap". Low quality.
> It is my first KZ earphone to look so. What a bummer.
> 
> ...



It looks like there is a plastic sticker on it. Try to peel it off if it is a sticker film.


----------



## Gussisaurio

dewy22 said:


> It looks like there is a plastic sticker on it. Try to peel it off if it is a sticker films.


 

 LOL. You were right,  a plastic cover:
  
  
 
  
 It looks much better now.


----------



## Gussisaurio

Hey guys, my ED3m came with a little user manual:
  

  
 What's interesting is the following note on the other side of the manual:
  


 As I understand from the note's (almost) perfect english, is that in 2015 KZ patented some sort of technology which allows the driver to "burn in" in just five minutes.
 Does anyone of you who own the ED3m have perceived sound improvements after hundreds of hours of burn in? Or the initial (five minutes into listening) sound is the one you get?
  
 The note seems to imply that this "fast" burning applies to all KZ models from january 2015. However it is widely accepted by many (but no all) on this forum that several (but not all) KZ models do benefit from 50, 100, 200 hours of burning in. 
  
 Do you know anything about this "fast" burning?
 Could there be two stages of burning in, a fast 5 minutes one, and a longer several hours one?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## crabdog

gussisaurio said:


> Hey guys, my ED3m came with a little user manual:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is interesting indeed. My burn-in process is totally unprofessional: I'll always listen to my iem ootb. If it doesn't sound right I'll throw them onto a burn. However if I like what I'm hearing ootb I just leave them in my ears.


----------



## Ruben123

gussisaurio said:


> Hey guys, my ED3m came with a little user manual:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Burn in is sort of not real but that is going to start a war here so it's better to say that :
Buy 2 sets of an iem (edr2? Super cheap), listen to both (no manufacturing differences?), let one burn in and compare. Many have done this and didn't find a difference but it's a cheap experiment to try for yourself


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> If You were referring to my early impressions, then I wasn`t talking about detail lacking, details are good. Just frontal soundstage depth layering is kind of "congested" together (with some more complex and layered progressive rock) and it`s harder to hear different layers separately and overall sound resolution isn`t so clean as I wish (slightly veiled?). Though, my EDR2 breathing holes are nicely open and haven`t tested how closing them will affect sound.
> Edit: for example listening to _Alt-J - This is All Yours_ atm... ambient sounds transparency/layering and room/air-sense isn`t so clean/clear and natural sounding as with modified ATE or WOM-mod, also ED9 and ED10 seem to be slightly better in that. Will leave them playing and hear tomorrow...




Can't take picture atm but hearing no improvement after overnight playtime, decided to mod them. Just finished grinding down backs of shells (now 3mm shorter body) and made them open-back...

They breathe now, they are alive, they are better☺
Still liking Wom-mod more but they are closer now. As open-backs, these might be best KZs to date for me. Will do comparing against others soon and report back.
Will exchange cable also and measure impedance. I dont like that sticky rubbery springy stock cable


----------



## seanwee

b9scrambler said:


> *I'm surprised at the comments on the EDR2 lacking detail. I found they had outstanding detail and clarity, and not just for a $6 iem.*
> 
> Mine is fully sealed as well. The hole by the strain relief was glued shut from the factory.


 
 My EDR2 arrived yesterday, 9 days ahead of schedule WOO HOO!!!
  
 As for sound, I find that they are slightly vealed and the way you find them to have outstanding detail and clarity is just another fine example of how sound perception differs wildly from one person to another.
  
 Based on memory , they perform on UE400 levels and maybe even higher. Quite a feat for something that costs five times less.


----------



## CoiL

Duplycate post sry. Stupid phone.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@CoiL Not just you. There were a few that mentioned the detail thing. I've got 20 other KZs and found they were the clearest and most detailed of the bunch, minus the ANV which I still think is king of the crop. Take those out of the equation and the EDR2, to my ears, is pretty clearly the most technically accomplished thing KZ has released to date, made even more impressive by how absurdly cheap they (even compared to other KZs). They completely replaced any need for the ED9 and HDS1 (which I find veiled) for me.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> @CoiL
> Not just you. There were a few that mentioned the detail thing. I've got 20 other KZs and found they were the clearest and most detailed of the bunch, minus the ANV which I still think is king of the crop. Take those out of the equation and the EDR2, to my ears, is pretty clearly the most technically accomplished thing KZ has released to date, made even more impressive by how absurdly cheap they (even compared to other KZs). They completely replaced any need for the ED9 and HDS1 (which I find veiled) for me.




Once again, I'm not complainig about details (details are good) but rather slight veil over it and soundstage layering in frontal depth.
Maybe there are production differences and QC issues (not new things and as we know your unit has port holes glued shut).
But I'm also not only one experiencing edr2 like that from comments I've read.
Anyway I'm not trying to bash edr2 down - it is pretty good in stock, but there are better ones imho. 
Maybe it's also about personal sound preferences and sound perception along with gear differences...

Just my 2c about edr2 and it's totally subjective


----------



## crabdog

coil said:


> Once again, I'm not complainig about details (details are good) but rather slight veil over it and soundstage layering in frontal depth.
> Maybe there are production differences and QC issues (not new things and as we know your unit has port holes glued shut).
> But I'm also not only one experiencing edr2 like that from comments I've read.
> Anyway I'm not trying to bash edr2 down - it is pretty good in stock, but there are better ones imho.
> ...


 
 Hmm I'll have to pull out my ED9 which hasn't been used for some time.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Once again, I'm not complainig about details (details are good) but rather slight veil over it and soundstage layering in frontal depth.
> Maybe there are production differences and QC issues (not new things and as we know your unit has port holes glued shut).
> But I'm also not only one experiencing edr2 like that from comments I've read.
> Anyway I'm not trying to bash edr2 down - it is pretty good in stock, but there are better ones imho.
> ...




I understand that. Wasn't saying you were complaining. We're all just posting personal observations. That's what forums and discussion are for.


----------



## Wiljen

HDS3s didnt even survive burn-in (24 hours of pink noise).   Left earpiece no sounds at all.    So much for that pair - on to better things.


----------



## B9Scrambler

wiljen said:


> HDS3s didnt even survive burn-in (24 hours of pink noise).   Left earpiece no sounds at all.    So much for that pair - on to better things.




Oh man...that's unfortunate. Many have had issues with the HDS3 failing or being unbalanced ootb. Can add another to the list :/


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> Oh man...that's unfortunate. Many have had issues with the HDS3 failing or being unbalanced ootb. Can add another to the list :/


 
 Yep be careful with EDR2 as well. Whilst tip rolling the front section of the shell came off and the wires snapped in the process. I can't be mad at a $6 item tho lol.


----------



## CoiL

crabdog said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > Oh man...that's unfortunate. Many have had issues with the HDS3 failing or being unbalanced ootb. Can add another to the list :/
> ...




Whaaat?  any pics?


----------



## crabdog

coil said:


> Whaaat?  any pics?


 
 Don't have pics because I binned them the same day. It would have been fine but I was holding the back end of the nozzle while tip rolling. Apparently they're not (at least in my case) glued on at all.


----------



## B9Scrambler

crabdog said:


> Yep be careful with EDR2 as well. Whilst tip rolling the front section of the shell came off and the wires snapped in the process. I can't be mad at a $6 item tho lol.


 
  
 Ouch. I haven't had any issues like that except with the Micro Ring. They forgot to glue the housing together, haha. Luckily no damage, and it was an easy fix. Ended up becoming one of my favorite iems after a horrible first impression.


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> @CoiL Not just you. There were a few that mentioned the detail thing. I've got 20 other KZs and found they were the clearest and most detailed of the bunch, minus the ANV which I still think is king of the crop. Take those out of the equation and the EDR2, to my ears, is pretty clearly the most technically accomplished thing KZ has released to date, made even more impressive by how absurdly cheap they (even compared to other KZs). They completely replaced any need for the ED9 and HDS1 (which I find veiled) for me.


 

 I'll probably take a shot and get the EDR2's. I like what I'm hearing about them. Thanks for your quick input on them!


----------



## WrxSTI

If I was looking for headphones with good sub-bass extension, forward mids and a smooth, laid-back treble, which of these KZ models would fit the bill ?


----------



## Podster

gussisaurio said:


> Hey guys, my ED3m came with a little user manual:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So if you believe all the hype the Chinese guys put into their advertisement's I have a little plot of land just off the Florida coast I'll sell you cheap
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus when you plant grass seed on it grass comes up in five minutes


----------



## Wiljen

podster said:


> So if you believe all the hype the Chinese guys put into their advertisement's I have a little plot of land just off the Florida coast I'll sell you cheap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yep, remember these same outfits sell batteries that never need charging, flashlights brighter than the sun, and clothes that are guaranteed to make you skinny.


----------



## Podster

wiljen said:


> Yep, remember these same outfits sell batteries that never need charging, flashlights brighter than the sun, and clothes that are guaranteed to make you skinny.


 

 Roger, Roger Wiljen
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So I was disappointed with ACME QC as mine came all chipped paint on the back side and the plastic over the back was already peeling off
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sound OK but less than perfect but hey they are $400 iem crushing machines per advertisement
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL


----------



## Pulpfiction

The slow boat from China was extra slow this time around (actually Brazil postal services are the more likely culprit) but FINALLY my EDR2's arrived. Liking them so far, but too early to say much. Very comfy, but had a harder time getting a good seal than with Zn1 Mini or ATE - again Sennheiser style biflange tips came through for me. I really appreciate the decent subbass extension. I find them to be quite balanced, and also think they're a bit more detailed than the ATE pair I've been used most at least. I liked the Zn1 quite a bit but it the end the lack of extension down low made me switch back to the ATE. 
  
 Generally: really like them. Monks are still my go to bud, but when I need an IEM for isolation purposes it's the EDR2 now (over ATE and Zn1 Mini - seriously limited budget). In retrospect I probably wouldn't have gone for EDR2 but for Joyroom E107 based on reviews, but I only have one pair or ears and too many buds kicking around just for me already. I would like the EDR2's (mid) bass to become a bit more punchy, it seems a little loose now (perhaps slightly better than ATE in this regard though). However, this could also be due to the tips I use. The shaft and skirt of these Senn style biflange tips is from very soft (not rigid) rubber. When I put a Sony Hybrid tip-style bud on (skirt of soft rubber and shaft of more rigid rubber) I seemed to get a bit more punchy bass. I swapped back again for seal and comfort though..


----------



## To.M

I have ATE and EDR2 and I can agree EDR2 are brighter and more detailed. In my case they fit perfectly, when I go running I never have to correct their position and they never fall out. It is the same in my case, Monks usually at home and EDR2 for running and ATE when I am outdoors. Well, today came JOYROOM E107 and we will see how they compete against KZ models


----------



## loomisjohnson

i just my hds3 and here's my ootb impression:
 very comfortable; i like the small form factor; easy to get good seal. isolation isn't very good (holes in rear) and consequently not optimal for the subway or the gym.
 compared to my quite w-shaped edse, i'd describe these as "balanced with enhanced low end". presentation is intimate and soundstage is small; these are not big-sounding or exciting like the edse. however, bass is surprisingly present (there's quite a bit of low-end rumble) and highs are well extended and detailed. instruments, esp. drums and acoustic guitars, sound quite natural. fans of the beefy, consumer-oriented sound might find these thin, esp. compared to the edse, but i like them--they're quite accurate, almost like a BA set.
 got the ate coming next. damn this addiction!!!!


----------



## skeewiff

Today my trusty ed9 stopped working in the right side, let´s face it quality is a bit poor in this little babys, any advice?


----------



## Podster

skeewiff said:


> Today my trusty ed9 stopped working in the right side, let´s face it quality is a bit poor in this little babys, any advice?




Black ED9, my Tuna set is two years old and going strong and my other two pair 1yr/6Mo. Are also running great if you have to change HDS1


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Roger, Roger Wiljen:wink_face:
> 
> So I was disappointed with ACME QC as mine came all chipped paint on the back side and the plastic over the back was already peeling off Sound OK but less than perfect but hey they are $400 iem crushing machines per advertisement:eek: LOL




Mine were all chipped on the edges after the second day. Good iem, but the paint job is pretty piss poor, haha. Forgivable at the price, but unacceptable otherwise. Definitely something KZ will need to avoid if/when they start making some serious gear (which I hope they do soon...).


----------



## pashhtk27

@Coil You posted how to remove the golden ear weights on ate, but I was not able to understand the 'pull those gold weights apart' part. I tried forcing them apart but they seem to be held very strongly. I didn't try harder for fear of breaking the cable.....those ear weights are really problematic to me. 

Also on Edr2, your impression of the earphone is just what I feel about the earphone too. That strange sense of congestion due to soundstage width at the center. Instruments and details on the sides are good though. But I really love their sound signature.


----------



## CoiL

to.m said:


> Well, today came JOYROOM E107 and we will see how they compete against KZ models


 
 Let me know Your take between JR and EDR2. Atm I feel like I should have gone for JRE107 instead EDR2 (which are very good though).
  


pashhtk27 said:


> @Coil You posted how to remove the golden ear weights on ate, but I was not able to understand the 'pull those gold weights apart' part. I tried forcing them apart but they seem to be held very strongly. I didn't try harder for fear of breaking the cable.....those ear weights are really problematic to me.


 
 Idk, I managed to pull them apart pretty easily. Maybe use 2 pinchers holding from both sides and pull-twist them? They should split apart from middle. 
  


> Also on Edr2, your impression of the earphone is just what I feel about the earphone too. That strange sense of congestion due to soundstage width at the center. Instruments and details on the sides are good though. But I really love their sound signature.


 
 Good to hear I`m hearing similar things. If You wish to improve them - make them open back  Btw, EDR2 cable is pretty easy to swap, just hold with one hand on the nozzle and with other hand from the body part and make "brake" move, then turn around (along the diameter) and repeat - driver with nozzle part comes out of shell finally and it`s easy after that to change cable.


----------



## crabdog

Just pulled out my ED9 after not using them for ages. I forgot just how good they are. Using gold filters: they've got a great sound. I should use these more often.


----------



## JesvsR

I'm officially a member of the KZ family¡¡ My ZN1 MIni have arrived =D
 Refering to first impressions, I'm very impressed with their sound. It's impressive how good this 8€ headphones can sound. I haven't listened to any dual-driver IEMs yet, but right now I'm very happy with them x)
 Also, the shipment from Aliexpress came home faster than any previous shipment, just two weeks¡¡ They're making a great effort on shortening the shipment times.


----------



## Sylmar

jesvsr said:


> I'm officially a member of the KZ family¡¡ My ZN1 MIni have arrived =D
> Refering to first impressions, I'm very impressed with their sound. It's impressive how good this 8€ headphones can sound. I haven't listened to any dual-driver IEMs yet, but right now I'm very happy with them x)
> Also, the shipment from Aliexpress came home faster than any previous shipment, just two weeks¡¡ They're making a great effort on shortening the shipment times.


 
 I'm glad you're happy with them. I wonder how they compare to KZ ATE.


----------



## goodluck4u

Does ZS1 have two version?
  
 Recently I have a possible oem version of KZ ZS1 (Archeer AH15) as a product sample. I found the difference between the original and the OEM. The OEM version is the silimar package and manual of KZ. However, the filter of their stem is difference. look at the picture below:

  
 ZS1 might have two vresions. If you have the filter like possible OEM, let the thread know  
 PS
 Recently in Japanese anonymous BBS, someone wrote the new version of ate. KZ ate has two version:the vent hole have one or nothing.  older ate has a vent hole of both side of its housing.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goodluck4u said:


> Does ZS1 have two version?
> 
> Recently I have a possible oem version of KZ ZS1 (Archeer AH15) as a product sample. I found the difference between the original and the OEM. The OEM version is the silimar package and manual of KZ. However, the filter of their stem is difference. look at the picture below:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was actually having a PM conversation with another member about just this issue since their version didn't quite have the absurd bass output expected. I was thinking they revised the ZS1 with ZN1 Mini parts since the ZN1 Mini was more positively received, but is also notably less bassy (imo).
  
 By chance, does the ZS1 with the standard filter over the nozzle (not the brass ring) have a crossover covering the tweeter?
  

  
 (Crossover is the chip on the bottom driver in this image)


----------



## seanwee

coil said:


> Let me know Your take between JR and EDR2. Atm I feel like I should have gone for JRE107 instead EDR2 (which are very good though).
> 
> Idk, I managed to pull them apart pretty easily. Maybe use 2 pinchers holding from both sides and pull-twist them? They should split apart from middle.
> 
> Good to hear I`m hearing similar things. If You wish to improve them - make them open back  Btw, EDR2 cable is pretty easy to swap, just hold with one hand on the nozzle and with other hand from the body part and make "brake" move, then turn around (along the diameter) and repeat - driver with nozzle part comes out of shell finally and it`s easy after that to change cable.


 Can you demonstrate how to make them open back? That would be very appreciated.


----------



## goodluck4u

b9scrambler said:


> I was actually having a PM conversation with another member about just this issue since their version didn't quite have the absurd bass output expected. I was thinking they revised the ZS1 with ZN1 Mini parts since the ZN1 Mini was more positively received, but is also notably less bassy (imo).
> 
> By chance, does the ZS1 with the standard filter over the nozzle (not the brass ring) have a crossover covering the tweeter?
> 
> ...


 
 The original version is the same of your pics. but the OEM is not a crossover on the tweeter.  Although I try to take  some pics, it is hard of me to do.


----------



## EISENbricher

loomisjohnson said:


> i just my hds3 and here's my ootb impression:
> very comfortable; i like the small form factor; easy to get good seal. isolation isn't very good (holes in rear) and consequently not optimal for the subway or the gym.
> compared to my quite w-shaped edse, i'd describe these as "balanced with enhanced low end". presentation is intimate and soundstage is small; these are not big-sounding or exciting like the edse. however, bass is surprisingly present (there's quite a bit of low-end rumble) and highs are well extended and detailed. instruments, esp. drums and acoustic guitars, sound quite natural. fans of the beefy, consumer-oriented sound might find these thin, esp. compared to the edse, but i like them--they're quite accurate, almost like a BA set.
> got the ate coming next. damn this addiction!!!!


 
 HDS3 are good when you receive a correct pair. I'd have recommended HDS3 to people but I would not because there seems to be something wrong with their production of HDS3. 
  
 First, an unusual number of people are reporting that they have received a faulty pair. In my case I have three HDS3 pairs from two different sellers. One is very imbalanced, one has loose connection issues and last one fortunately was only working pair. 
  
 EDR2 is a wonderful recommendation in place of HDS3, which improves on many fronts.


----------



## B9Scrambler

goodluck4u said:


> The original version is the same of your pics. but the OEM is not a crossover on the tweeter.  Although I try to take  some pics, it is hard of me to do.




Okay, so I'm feeling that my original thoughts are correct; the ZS1 was revised and is now basically the ZN1 Mini with memory wire. That's a bummer to me, but I'm sure others will be pretty pleased.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Okay, so I'm feeling that my original thoughts are correct; the ZS1 was revised and is now basically the ZN1 Mini with memory wire. That's a bummer to me, but I'm sure others will be pretty pleased.


 

 ZN1 has no memory wire B
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But they are Garden Hoser's


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> *ZN1 has no memory wire B*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed. That's why I said the ZS1 posted above is now essentially the ZN1 Mini but *with *memory wire   No crossover, no brass ring in the nozzle... 
  
 I'm intimately familiar with my ZS1 and ZN1 Mini. Not only the hose knows.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Yes indeed. That's why I said the ZS1 posted above is now essentially the ZN1 Mini but *with *memory wire   No crossover, no brass ring in the nozzle...
> 
> I'm intimately familiar with my ZS1 and ZN1 Mini. Not only the hose knows.


 

 Why yes, yes you are
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The one thing that I've found with the KZ's is that they all can be improved upon with EQ (I also know some people absolutely detest EQ) but to me it's the difference in a KZ model being a good iem vs. a really good iem especially for sub $15 iem's. I hope KZ takes the next step up and gets their own custom builder on board and branch out but maintain the budget conscience model they are known for, would be
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  





Saxy case too


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Why yes, yes you are
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I completely agree. These ZS1 and ZN1 are quite possibly the most receptive to EQing of the bunch. You can really make them shine with a bit of effort. 
  
 KZ gave branching out a whirl with the original ZN1 with amp box, with moderate success. Would love to see them give it another go, but this time spend a little more time refining the complete package. In my mind, there is no doubt that they are capable. I would happily spend $100 on a KZ but it would need to address everything; packaging, build, material quality, accessories, ergonomics, etc. No compromises. Just pure KZ awesome.


----------



## wastan

vapman said:


> I'm sure if we make it known that we would like to buy big bags of them, they would sell them to us.
> 
> I thought it was just me but if a lot of people would like those then they should!




I bought a roll of Velcro onewrap 5' .5" width for about $5 on Amazon and cut my own. Just cut about a 2 or 3" piece and make a slit in the middle of one end large enough to feed the plug through.


----------



## duo8

Just got my ED9. About what I'd expected, except the bass.

It appears to be a new revision. Black housing and bronze-ish cable.


----------



## Podster

duo8 said:


> Just got my ED9. About what I'd expected, except the bass.
> 
> It appears to be a new revision. Black housing and bronze-ish cable.


 

 Yes sir, they are beautiful. I'm a brass filter kind of guy myself but many like the gold ones. Remember like I said above a little EQ also goes a long way with KZ's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Black is beautiful baby


----------



## Dovian

Hi,

 I've been reading this thread for a long time. After reading all the feedback from everyone I bought a ZS1 6 months ago and love them. After the ZS2 came out i was wondering and hoping someone in this thread would buy them and give some feedback about it. I even msg Teressa from AE asking if there are any diff between the ZS1 and ZS2 and she reply there were the same and its only the casing that changed.
  
 After getting her reply i still jumped the gun and ordered a pair of ZS2 during the anniversary sale and it just arrive today. OOTB the ZS2 is has less bass compare to ZS1 but it is still noticeably still there, its just that the treble are more present with the ZS2. I took a look into the driver by shining a desk lamp onto it and to my surprise the 2nd driver has a different circuit board design compared to the ZS1. There is a larger mesh in the ZS2 and the circuit doesn't have those components on it. Instead of those gold nozzle in the ZS1, the ZS2 now has a mesh filter at the end of it.
  
 I am not an audiophile so i am not very good at describing how it sounds. I took some picture to show the key difference between the ZS1 and ZS2. Enjoy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://imgur.com/a/EIMxK


----------



## B9Scrambler

dovian said:


> OOTB the ZS2 is has less bass compare to ZS1 but it is still noticeably still there, its just that the treble are more present with the ZS2. I took a look into the driver by shining a desk lamp onto it and to my surprise the 2nd driver has a different circuit board design compared to the ZS1. There is a larger mesh in the ZS2 and the circuit doesn't have those components on it. Instead of those gold nozzle in the ZS1, the ZS2 now has a mesh filter at the end of it.
> 
> I am not an audiophile so i am not very good at describing how it sounds. I took some picture to show the key difference between the ZS1 and ZS2. Enjoy
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good pics!
  
 That settles it for me. The ZS1 is now just the ZN1 Mini with the hose replaced by a standard KZ cable and memory wire. Disappointing...


----------



## CoiL

seanwee said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Let me know Your take between JR and EDR2. Atm I feel like I should have gone for JRE107 instead EDR2 (which are very good though).
> ...




I grinded down back ends of shells with grinding bench, about 3,5mm.

And now important news! - EDR2 has FOAM pieces inside nozzle! I strongly recommend to remove them to lift that little "veil" and improve clarity! Nozzle grills can be put back but imo no point. 
Now comes testing part if they sound better when half-closed, ported or open. I think half-open solution might be best but we'll hear soon. KZ - why O why did you put those foams in there and didnt use same housing back-grills as with edse?!

Edit: Listening DLC - Aesthesis atm and comparing edr2 with my WOM-mod and they sound very close as open-back + removed foams - certainly best KZ to date like this for me! Amazing what you can get for 6$ 

Time to make them wooden!


----------



## rmatech

Great  The time I buy the ZS1, they change it! I wonder if anyone sells the old version?


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Yes sir, they are beautiful. I'm a brass filter kind of guy myself but many like the gold ones. Remember like I said above a little EQ also goes a long way with KZ's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are killing me with those black 9's...


----------



## duo8

Hmm.

Compared to my xiaomi hybrids, ED9 has significantly less bass, and far more pronounced highs. The highs are more detailed than the hybrids, if only because the bass didn't run over everything.

These sounds pretty close to my old NT100, but somehow with even less bass.


----------



## rmatech

duo8 said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Compared to my xiaomi hybrids, ED9 has significantly less bass, and far more pronounced highs. The highs are more detailed than the hybrids, if only because the bass didn't run over everything.
> 
> These sounds pretty close to my old NT100, but somehow with even less bass.




The ZS1 i have also had less bass than my xiaomi hybrids. Found out that it was due to the gold nozzles and crossover being removed. Hope they haven't done anything similar with the ED9's!!


----------



## goodluck4u

ZS1 (100+ hours) vs revised ZS1 (abbr. ZSR1) (around 50 hours):
 I write the difference of sound simply. 
  
 clear sound, sound stage ZSR1 > ZS1
 bass  ZS1 > ZSR1
  
 ZSR1 is slightly winder sound stage than average earphones. 
  
 PS. my possible OEM has been confirmed the OEM of ZS1 because I heard the seller.


----------



## rancor1223

I've just received ATE (with the memory wire) and mine sound dreadful (in comparison to SE or even RX). They have little to no bass and the whole sound is just kinda washed out. I'm assuming I just got a bad pair. Has that happened to anyone else?


----------



## crabdog

rancor1223 said:


> I've just received ATE (with the memory wire) and mine sound dreadful (in comparison to SE or even RX). They have little to no bass and the whole sound is just kinda washed out. I'm assuming I just got a bad pair. Has that happened to anyone else?


 
 Have you tried different ear tips? Sounds like you're not getting a good seal / fit.


----------



## duo8

Are there any mod for ed9

I don't dislike ed9 but it does sound kinda strange.


----------



## To.M

I have black ATE and me like them a lot  they have a nice punchy bass (though not bass cannons) so either try to place them correctly (it takes some practice to insert them right), find good tips as crabdog mentioned or you got a bad unit (hope not), my first pair had a canal imbalance but the seller sent me another one without any fuss.


----------



## tusharthegamer

ATE or ATE S? which one is better ? which is the best IEM from KZ? i got ed9 and hds1...


----------



## B9Scrambler

tusharthegamer said:


> ATE or ATE S? which one is better ? which is the best IEM from KZ? i got ed9 and hds1...




You've already got two of the best KZ. Maybe check out the EDR2 next. IMO, that's the best of the bunch. ED10 is pretty great as well.

ATE with the clear black housing seems to get the best feedback. I have the original silver housing model. Love em!


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> I grinded down back ends of shells with grinding bench, about 3,5mm.
> 
> *And now important news! - EDR2 has FOAM pieces inside nozzle! I strongly recommend to remove them to lift that little "veil" and improve clarity! Nozzle grills can be put back but imo no point.*
> Now comes testing part if they sound better when half-closed, ported or open. I think half-open solution might be best but we'll hear soon. KZ - why O why did you put those foams in there and didnt use same housing back-grills as with edse?!
> ...


 
 Thanks! I'll keep that in mind when I decide to order mine.


----------



## myliferockkss

Hello all,
 I have just received my first earphone from KZ (yes my very first KZ ) its ATE(non S)..... I dont know why but i feel like the right piece sounds lil low than the left one  ..... any way to rectify that ? i have just received it 30 mins back... will burning it help?
 TIA


----------



## CoiL

rancor1223 said:


> I've just received ATE (with the memory wire) and mine sound dreadful (in comparison to SE or even RX). They have little to no bass and the whole sound is just kinda washed out. I'm assuming I just got a bad pair. Has that happened to anyone else?


 
 That sounds wrong. You have S-version or non-S? S version should be bassier than older ones without memory wire and metal "strain reliefs". But even older ones should have littlebit enhanced bass. You can check if port holes on body near nozzles are badly made, open or jammed with glue (though closing them should make bass better).


duo8 said:


> Are there any mod for ed9
> 
> I don't dislike ed9 but it does sound kinda strange.


 
 Use brass tips and put little foam inside nozzles.


b9scrambler said:


> tusharthegamer said:
> 
> 
> > which is the best IEM from KZ? i got ed9 and hds1...
> ...


 
 +1
  
 My recommendations are EDR2, ED10/ED11 or non-S version of ATE.


1clearhead said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I grinded down back ends of shells with grinding bench, about 3,5mm.
> ...


 
 Definitely try them without foam pieces. Actually if You look at Gearbest pictures then it`s false advertising - they are NOT open back like on that pic and use foam in nozzles:

  
 Btw, I measured EDR2 cable (without mic) impedance and it was L - 17.6 and R - 17.5 Ohm.


----------



## duo8

coil said:


> rancor1223 said:
> 
> 
> > I've just received ATE (with the memory wire) and mine sound dreadful (in comparison to SE or even RX). They have little to no bass and the whole sound is just kinda washed out. I'm assuming I just got a bad pair. Has that happened to anyone else?
> ...



Brass tips? They're both brass. You mean the treble one or the bass one.

The one I'm using already has foam inside.


----------



## crabdog

duo8 said:


> Brass tips? They're both brass. You mean the treble one or the bass one.
> 
> The one I'm using already has foam inside.


 
 Brass is more neutral sounding. The other filters are gold, which are the bass ones.


----------



## Ruben123

It's about the edr2 guys...


----------



## B9Scrambler

I think he just forgot to filter out all the extraneous conversation. Early on he asked about mods and was advised to add foam to the brass filter.


----------



## duo8

crabdog said:


> Brass is more neutral sounding. The other filters are gold, which are the bass ones.


 

 Interestingly, only one of the brass filters has foam inside.


----------



## crabdog

duo8 said:


> Interestingly, only one of the brass filters has foam inside.


 
 That's the KZ build quality that's been mentioned a bit lately. I'm done with KZ except maybe ATE in the future or they make some new products.


----------



## Pavapizza

Ok, so i ended up getting the ED3 acme, and i must say, im not dissapointed at all. The bass have enough oomph without hurting the ear, the mids are quite balance, and the highs are clear. And i use the memory foam tips from KZ and it formed a better seal on my ear than the original silicon tips.


----------



## CoiL

Just finished modding my EDR2, Oak wood shells with 3 port holes (almost like half-open), natural stain + oil:

  
 Sorry, I don`t have my camera with me atm, just bad quality smartphone camera.
  
Once again I have to say that KZ cables are bad quality - original L/R channels were ~17.6 Ohm, new cable is ~15.7 Ohm.
 Edit: sorry, just discovered my multimeter battery is probably empty, so it may lie.


----------



## CGrish

coil said:


> Just finished modding my EDR2, Oak wood shells with 3 port holes (almost like half-open), natural stain + oil:
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don`t have my camera with me atm, just bad quality smartphone camera.
> ...


 
 OMG. How does that open back wooded mod sound?


----------



## CoiL

Pretty great. Not sure yet if better than my WOM-mod. Will do listening tomorrow, I`m tired atm.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Just finished modding my EDR2, Oak wood shells with 3 port holes (almost like half-open), natural stain + oil:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Beeeeeautiful! Always look forward to your custom wood mods. Still would love to see you start a thread on them, even if it's only to post a pic or two.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Just finished modding my EDR2, Oak wood shells with 3 port holes (almost like half-open), natural stain + oil:
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don`t have my camera with me atm, just bad quality smartphone camera.
> ...


 
  
 Wow! You have potential to open your own custom-made shop.......looks really good!


----------



## SilentCinema

coil said:


> Just finished modding my EDR2, Oak wood shells with 3 port holes (almost like half-open), natural stain + oil:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 wow I've got a pair of the originals, that looks really very nice. Great skill!


----------



## smy1

Any reviews on the KZ IE80?
  
 Just ordered KZ IE80 hope they are good
  
 bought it from here http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Sale-Original-Quality-KZ-IE80-Noise-Cancelling-HiFi-Deep-Bass-In-Ear-Stereo-Music-Mobile/32597907135.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.yLoC2u&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201602_4_10017_10005_10006_10034_10021_507_10022_10020_10018_9999_10019,searchweb201603_6&btsid=d2ee0130-ea7a-4319-86be-e618e5e552fa


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> Beeeeeautiful! Always look forward to your custom wood mods. Still would love to see you start a thread on them, even if it's only to post a pic or two.


 


1clearhead said:


> Wow! You have potential to open your own custom-made shop.......looks really good!


 


silentcinema said:


> wow I've got a pair of the originals, that looks really very nice. Great skill!


 
 Thanks! It`s just a hobby. Not planning to make a thread or custom-made shop. For modifications there`s already a thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/30#post_12467148 and some sub-forums.


----------



## DangerClose

I have various open-back headphones with huge soundstages.  But here I am watching a movie with ED8.  And liking it.
  
 I'd like to mod them to get more air in them but still trying to figure out the best way to do it.


----------



## CoiL

Just cut the shell open and remove it


----------



## myliferockkss

myliferockkss said:


> Hello all,
> I have just received my first earphone from KZ (yes my very first KZ ) its ATE(non S)..... I dont know why but i feel like the right piece sounds lil low than the left one  ..... any way to rectify that ? i have just received it 30 mins back... will burning it help?
> TIA


 
 anyone?


----------



## To.M

rectify? I don't think so, it is a manufacturing defect. I have black ATE (love them) and when I got them the left phone was some 40% louder then the right one,I contacted the seller and he sent me a new pair.


----------



## myliferockkss

ohkay thanks for your reply bud.... waiting for the sellers reply now


----------



## CoiL

Okay, been tip-rolling my EDR2 RBW-mod (not decided yet which are best tips) and comparing with WOM-mod...
 Despite I removed foam pieces from nozzles, made them "half-open" and changed cable for lower impedance, they
 still are littlebit inferior to WOM-mod imo.
 Difference is very small between them but here are the main points that make WOM-mod slightly better:
 * Soundstage middle frontal depth, layering and transparency is slightly better on WOM-mod.
 * Overall resolution and micro-details are slightly better on WOM-mod.
  
 But... I think EDR2 RBW-mod is best KZ to date. Very good and very cheap IEM. Definitely recommend to try it!
 They sound very engaging and very well balanced (not dead-flat or thin sounding).
 * Bass hits with authority but doesn`t bleed into other FR.
 * Mids are neutral or very slightly above neutral.
 * Highs play just between harsh/smooth, no sibilance, no fatigue.


----------



## 1clearhead

to.m said:


> rectify? I don't think so, it is a manufacturing defect. I have black ATE (love them) and when I got them the left phone was some 40% louder then the right one,I *contact*ed *the seller* and he sent me a new pair.


 
 +1 Definitely, contact the seller.....give him the smackdown! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.....you worked hard for your money!


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> Okay, been tip-rolling my EDR2 RBW-mod (not decided yet which are best tips) and comparing with WOM-mod...
> Despite I removed foam pieces from nozzles, made them "half-open" and changed cable for lower impedance, they
> still are littlebit inferior to WOM-mod imo.
> Difference is very small between them but here are the main points that make WOM-mod slightly better:
> ...


 
 Did some more tip-rolling and atm I think I`ve found best tips for them: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/6-pcs-3-pairs-Replacement-Triple-Flange-Earbuds-tips-Set-for-CX300-In-Ear-Earphones-S/32585964409.html
 They seem to have optimal bore size and seal very well with this IEM. I`m using smallest ones.


----------



## James Freeman

*NEW KZ In-Ear Comparison!*
  
 6 Headphones + Source, lossless 44.1kHz 16bit (22MB):
 This time a nice pop jazz tune by Steely Dan and a metal track by Megadeth to cover all frequencies and colors.
  


> Source (straight from PC)
> ED9
> ED2
> ED3 Acme
> ...


 
  
http://www.mediafire.com/download/vw552ggi5n7ki8w/KZ_In-Ear_Comparison_NEW.7z
  
 There is no reference headphone, just a general EQ curve to make the headphones sound close to the source.
 Now you can choose a headphone you like, they all sound pretty similar with different character in the treble just like you would hear it yourself.
  
 I tried to explain what I hear and compare the headphones in text but is was harder than I thought.
 So just listen and decide yourself.
 The ED9 is still king for me and has the most balanced sound and character to my ear.
  
*EDIT.* Might as well include that here:
 The source track is there to play on your hi-fi system AND your KZ in-ear headphones together, so you can quickly compare between the two just by taking off your KZ earphones and putting back on.
 The recorded KZ tracks are to be played *only* on the Hi-Fi to have a sense of how the KZ will sound in your ears without actually owning the KZ.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> The ED9 is still king for me and has the most balanced sound and character to my ear.


 
 Get EDR2 or ANV (almost impossible to find now) and then You`ll know what is "most" balanced out of KZ 
  
 But of course - it`s all subjective.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Get EDR2 or ANV (almost impossible to find now) and then You`ll know what is "most" balanced out of KZ
> 
> But of course - it`s all subjective.




Very subjective. Edr2 is v shaped a bit and ed9 with some cotton in the nozzle is very well balanced. Hds1 is a bit dark but nice to listen to for hours.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> *NEW KZ In-Ear Comparison!*
> 
> 6 Headphones + Source, lossless 44.1kHz 16bit (22MB):
> This time a nice pop jazz tune by Steely Dan and a metal track by Megadeth to cover all frequencies and colors.
> ...


 
  


ruben123 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Get EDR2 or ANV (almost impossible to find now) and then You`ll know what is "most" balanced out of KZ
> ...


 
 EDR2 is definitely better balanced than ED9 with brass nozzles with little foam to me. Without nozzle foam mod there isn`t any question that EDR2 is better balanced and not so V-shaped, imho.
 I listened just now to his samples through PC>ASIO>USB DAC(upgraded ELE-D02)>EDR2 and right away noticed differences. ED9 sample had little piercing and sibilance highs. Also ED2 felt kinda similar in highs.
 Out of those I found ATE-S, ED3acme and ZN1mini best sounding. ED3acme lacked soundstage/air and bass refinement/details and ZN1mini also had little "muddy" or littlebit overdone bass compared to ATE-S (which bass is also little boosted). This is just out of mono samples not real IEM`s.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> EDR2 is definitely better balanced than ED9 with brass nozzles with little foam to me.
> I listened just now to his samples through PC>ASIO>USB DAC(upgraded ELE-D02)>EDR2 and right away noticed differences. ED9 sample had little piercing and sibilance highs.
> Out of those I found ATE-S, ED3acme and ZN1mini best sounding. ED3acme lacked soundstage/air and bass refinement/details and ZN1mini also had little "muddy" or littlebit overdone bass compared to ATE-S. This is just out of mono samples not real IEM`s.




If you like ed3, zn1 and ate it's no wonder you like edr2 too more. Ed9 brass simply has much less bass than the others and to get a pleasing bass out of it, you need to turn up the volume too much and you get harsh treble then. Probably the same with all neutral iems, headphones and speakers. You cannot call the edr2's bass balanced or neutral, though it is very good.


----------



## James Freeman

You can't listen through a EDR2 to these recordings.
 Use studio monitors or flat over ear headphones.
  
 The ED9 sounds the most balanced to me in comparison to my studio monitors and they are not 6$.
  
 Yes the samples are mono, I could record the left and right ear separately but it would take twice as long and would not contribute that much, mono is fine.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> You can't listen through a EDR2 to these recordings.
> Use studio monitors or flat over ear headphones.


 
 Doesn`t matter very much with what I listen to those samples because differences are STILL pretty much same.
 But ok, when I go home, I`ll compare with my desk system and different cans. Pretty sure I`ll find similar differences and rate them same. Done something similar already some time ago.
  
 Just out of curiosity - how old Ruben and You are? Do You have slight ear-damage regarding highs? Just want to note out that I`m very sensitive to highs.
  
 Just my 2 cents about this. Not wanting to start arguing and war. 
  
 Edit: for reference (as much I can use atm) I`m going to listen those samples with ANV right now.


----------



## James Freeman

30. I still hear to 19kHz.
  
 The source track is there to play on your hi-fi system AND your KZ in-ear headphones so you can quickly compare between the two.
 The recorded KZ tracks are to be played *only* on the Hi-Fi to have a sense of how the KZ will sound in your ears without actually owning the KZ.


----------



## CoiL

Tried with ANV and same results. ANV though, made even clearer difference in mids and vocal naturality. 
  
 For information, I`m 32, been playing bass guitar for ~9 years (not anymore), now play acoustic guitar for about 4 years, had 3 progressive metal bands, been in different studios (not very HQ ones though) and done some recording-play, been on different live-stages (pretty well equipped.
  
 But we all hear things differently and very much about sound gear is still in the end subjective


----------



## James Freeman

I too am a musician all my life, own several guitars basses and tube amps.
 My home studio consists of Focusrite Saffire Firewire audio interface and Behringer Truth B3030A monitors (Adam A7 knockoffs), a bunch of condensers and dynamic mics.
 Been mixing for years, and as you do, I know good sound when I hear it.
  


> But we all hear things differently and very much about sound gear is still in the end subjective


 
 Very true.
  
 As for the KZ, to my ear only the ED9, ED3 Acme and ATE-S actually reproduce anything above 16kHz.


----------



## Ruben123

Im 21 and have excellent hearing. I think it too is widely accepted that the ed9 is more balanced than edr2, which doesnt make the edr2 bad. I find the edr2 being better at the slight v shape than the ed9 with the balanced or neutral goal. The edr2 just does a better job at its own goal. The ed9, it is indeed a bit harsh, but some cotton can smoothen the highs. Having had the ANV, I detested the harsh highs though I still dont know to day if I had the latest, smoother version or the older more harsh version.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> widely accepted that the ed9 is more balanced than edr2,


 
 Hmmm... not so many have EDR2 imo, at least in this thread, yet, compared to ED9 owners
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 My only gripe with ED9 was/is slight harshness and sibilance in highs (even with mod but much less) and also compared to ATE soundstage/imaging were slightly inferior to my ears and with my gear. But ED9 definitely is a great KZ IEM and I can recommend it anytime as one of the top KZ`s. EDR2 just makes music more "right" and natural to my ears. But in stock configuration I would say ED9 is better due to soundstage/layering/transparency. RBW-mod - different story


----------



## seanwee

coil said:


> Hmmm... not so many have EDR2 imo, at least in this thread, yet, compared to ED9 owners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would be interested in that.


----------



## CoiL

With that I meant that RBW-mod vs. ED9 (brass nozzle + foam mod), RBW-mod is little better, like I said _" EDR2 just makes music more "right" and natural to my ears." _It doesn`t mean that ED9 is bad and like I said I`m very sensitive to highs, ED9 is just little too "hot" for me.


----------



## CADCAM

For me the ED9 with brass nozzles, filter in place and foam in nozzle (to taste) is still one of the most impressive KZ's I have. I have 2 pair in chrome and thanks to Pod keep eyeing the black variant...
 Another one that's been impressing me is the ED3c (mine are blue).


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> For me the ED9 with brass nozzles, filter in place and foam in nozzle (to taste) is still one of the most impressive KZ's I have. I have 2 pair in chrome and thanks to Pod keep eyeing the black variant...
> Another one that's been impressing me is the ED3c (mine are blue).


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


>


 
 That's a fitting Avatar for you...just kidding.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> That's a fitting Avatar for you...just kidding.


 

 Oh, it's gonna be like that is it well take this................................


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Oh, it's gonna be like that is it well take this................................


 
 Come on man!


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Oh, it's gonna be like that is it well take this................................


 

 KZ's besties wiith a really good color. Love it.


----------



## DangerClose

coil said:


> Just cut the shell open and remove it


 
  
 I was thinking something more subtle like drilling the hole bigger that's already there, or putting a hole in the back.  But I don't know what's on the inside and would hate to drill into something and completely ruin them, especially since I just got them.    
  


james freeman said:


> *NEW KZ In-Ear Comparison!*
> 
> 6 Headphones + Source, lossless 44.1kHz 16bit (22MB):
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/download/vw552ggi5n7ki8w/KZ_In-Ear_Comparison_NEW.7z


 
  
 Interesting comparison.  I think you did a similar one previously in the thread.
  
 ED9 on that sounds rather bright up top.  I could see how some foam could tame them and balance them.
  
 ZN1 mini sounds very dark and muddy.  I was thinking of getting those next due to them apparently having a big 3-D soundstage, but maybe I'll stick with ED8 and Zircon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Though I guess big 3-D soundstage doesn't translate well in a mono recording.
  
 I wouldn't quite call my EDR2 balanced since it seems to have a V or I guess M shape with emphasis in the 80hz or so area and 3khz or so area, but it's hard to complain too much about them.  They're aggressive and wear me out, but that also makes them fun.


----------



## smy1

I still don't know if I should cancel my KZ ie80 for something else like the **** UE


----------



## CoiL

dangerclose said:


> I wouldn't quite call my EDR2 balanced since it seems to have a V or I guess M shape with emphasis in the 80hz or so area and 3khz or so area, but it's hard to complain too much about them.  They're aggressive and wear me out, but that also makes them fun.


 
 Take foam out of nozzles (btw, one foam was pushed deep inside against driver enclosure hole and other was on top of nozzle) and use wide bore silicone tips


----------



## To.M

smy1 it looks like some older model 

https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=IE80


----------



## smy1

to.m said:


> smy1 it looks like some older model
> 
> https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=IE80




I guess I try them out and maybe report back. It's only $20 it's not something extremely expensive.


----------



## To.M

we KZ fans really appreciate it!


----------



## James Freeman

Gave my ears a rest from the In-ear and only listened through my monitors (speakers).
 Then plugged my in-ear again.
  
 The ED9 indeed have a small boost in the upper mid-range compared to the monitors.
 The ATE-S has slightly more bass than ED9, but similar in character.
 The ED3 Acme have a little boosted lower-midrange and bass compared to the monitors.
 All the others lack the highest treble (above 12kHz) and have too much character to be called monitors.
  
 My suggestion,
 For a warmer/thicker sound like listening to a Hi-Fi system in a big room go for ED3 Acme or ATE.
 For detailed sound like listening to a close range studio monitor go for ED9.
 I wish I could blend the ED9 and ED3 Acme together, but that's what EQ is for.
  
 If you think the ED9 or the ED3 have too much treble extension you probably never sat 3 feet in front of a pair of studio monitors where the tweeter blasts frequencies to 20kHz right into your ears.


----------



## CoiL

James You do realize that some studio monitors do not translate into "hi-fi" system? Most ppl here have totally different hi-fi system for home listening. Studio monitors are for different purpose - for recording,mixing and mastering. I understand what You try to do here but in reality end-user gear and sound is different from studio monitors and most of time much more natural sounding than listening from studio monitors which have different frequency response and acoustic properties. That`s why many home studio "specialists" tend to fail in the end result - sound isn`t sounding out of different consumer and hi-fi grade gear so natural and real as it should be. I have personal experience about that.


> For detailed sound like listening to a close range studio monitor go for ED9.


 
 ED9 doesn`t sound anything like close range studio monitors to my ears and thay aren`t comparable - totally different purpose, different physical room and sound perception.
  
 Just my 2 cents and won`t comment about that subject anymore. Just something to think about


----------



## James Freeman

I totally agree CoiL.
  
 But I have been sitting 3 feet in front of studio monitors for many years as my primary listening speakers, and I like the extended frequency response right up to 20kHz.
 I perfectly understand that most people do not have such experience and choose a KZ based on the speakers they are mostly listening too.
  


> ED9 doesn`t sound anything like close range studio monitors to my ears and thay aren`t comparable - totally different purpose, different physical room and sound perception.
> 
> Just my 2 cents and won`t comment about that subject anymore. Just something to think about


 
  
 With my monitors and treated room, they do sound the closest out of the bunch.
 Just my 3 cents, and you're free not to replay at all. 
  
 Just as a note on Hi-Fi speakers, my Polk Audio RTi-A3 have even more ear treble (silk dome tweeters) than my monitors (ribbon tweeters) but they not meant to be listened from 3 feet.
 They sound fantastic in the room slightly off-axis and further than 3 feet as you would normally listen to a stereo system.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> choose a KZ based on the speakers they are mostly listening too.


 
 Or just their experience from live listening/concerts, source gear, sound (brain) perception and taste, etc. etc.


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> Just finished modding my EDR2, Oak wood shells with 3 port holes (almost like half-open), natural stain + oil:
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don`t have my camera with me atm, just bad quality smartphone camera.
> ...


 
 For information, I changed battery on my multimeter and with new cable L/R impedance is very evenly 17.3 Ohm.


----------



## CoiL

Even if EDSE and ED2 have different driver - do not belive Audiobudget site about EDR2: "they have exactly the same drivers and they sound exactly the same (as ED2)." - they do not. 
 Once again that site is unreliable and very subjective (also seems to be promotions site by some ali sellers to me).


----------



## Podster

to.m said:


> @smy1 it looks like some older model
> 
> https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=IE80


 

 I believe this is Igor's blog, he has rated the IE80 as one of the best of KZ, if you've not paid too much for them smy1 I'd let that order ride and seee what you think of them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are supposed to be a Senn knockoff but they also remind me of me Havi B3


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Even if EDSE and ED2 have different driver - do not belive Audiobudget site about EDR2: "they have exactly the same drivers and they sound exactly the same (as ED2)." - they do not.
> Once again that site is unreliable and very subjective (also seems to be promotions site by some ali sellers to me).


 

 Although you are an artisan with your hands Coil who's to say any of your customization's of the KZ line sound any better than the original? Now I see what happened to Twin with that comment about inside seller/promotions stuff
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That blog is about budget IEM's and several brands, just because he thinks the ED2 and EDR2 are the same and sound the same to him does not make it unreliable to me after all we are talking BUDGET IEM's! You are entitled to what you think but for me I find you no more right than his blogs on some things. Who's to say you are not planning to do customs for forum members one day? Let's be fair about all this and not speculate what someone might or might not be doing with budget sellers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just takes a spark to start a fire
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing personal Coil just the way I see it from my end of this conversation


----------



## CoiL

Thanks  for Your feedback and You are right in most part but this Igor got banned with reason and this isn`t first time his site reviews are misleading or not accurate (personal opinions presented as facts). But enough of this, just wanted to warn potential EDR2 buyers if they should see that comment about EDR2 drivers being same with ED2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 


> Coil who's to say any of your customization's of the KZ line sound any better than the original?


 
 Nobody. I`m just sharing modding information for KZ fans to further improve (or degrade if that`s their experience and feedback) sound quality. 


> Who's to say you are not planning to do customs for forum members one day?


 
 Who knows, maybe in long distant future (never say never) but it`s not my purpose, it`s just my hobby.
 Actually I was thinking about making nice wooden suitcase with all my modified KZ`s and send it around to some of You budget hoarders just for listening and critical judging. Who knows, maybe I`m hearing totally wrong and my efforts are only good for myself.


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Thanks  for Your feedback and You are right in most part but this Igor got banned with reason and this isn`t first time his site reviews are misleading or not accurate (personal opinions presented as facts). But enough of this, just wanted to warn potential EDR2 buyers if they should see that comment about EDR2 drivers being same with ED2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I understand Coil and why I mentioned again the subjectivity of this hobby and that we all do hear just a little differently, I sure hope nobody hold's off on either the ED2 or EDR2 as they both have merit especially for their price. To me they (KZ's) all stand above the Skull Candy and other junk sold at the like of Best Buy. I sure don't support Igor and he kind of ask for what he got but on the other hand he does put a lot of effort into his blog even if he's not 100% right all the time, are any of us?
  
 Keep up the good work, always looking and marveling at your customization's


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Thanks  for Your feedback and You are right in most part but this Igor got banned with reason and this isn`t first time his site reviews are misleading or not accurate (personal opinions presented as facts). But enough of this, just wanted to warn potential EDR2 buyers if they should see that comment about EDR2 drivers being same with ED2
> Nobody. I`m just sharing modding information for KZ fans to further improve (or degrade if that`s their experience and feedback) sound quality.
> Who knows, maybe in long distant future (never say never) but it`s not my purpose, it`s just my hobby.
> Actually I was thinking about making nice wooden suitcase with all my modified KZ`s and send it around to some of You budget hoarders just for listening and critical judging. Who knows, maybe I`m hearing totally wrong and my efforts are only good for myself.




Ed2 and Edse are the same. And I think I've missed this, but why is Igor banned?


----------



## loomisjohnson

got the ate yesterday--build quality is extremely impressive for such a cheap bauble. soundwise, however, ootb the bass is quite boomy and loose (albeit pridgous in quantity)--will this change with burn-in?
 meanwhile (whether it's burn-in or just getting habituated) the hds3 is really improving for me--wider soundstage, more midrange presence; even its isolation seems better. any recs as to my next unnecessary purchase?


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> got the ate yesterday--build quality is extremely impressive for such a cheap bauble. soundwise, however, ootb the bass is quite boomy and loose (albeit pridgous in quantity)--will this change with burn-in?
> meanwhile (whether it's burn-in or just getting habituated) the hds3 is really improving for me--wider soundstage, more midrange presence; even its isolation seems better. any recs as to my next unnecessary purchase?


 

 IMHO (and you know what they say about those) all the KZ line responds to burn-in, some more than others. The ATE's became more even across the freq. range with 50-60 hours of burn, it is also very important that you find the best sealing tips you can for them. Once these two things happen I believe you will believe they rock for their price
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Have fun


----------



## loomisjohnson

thanks podster--i'll keep 'em on all week. one thing i will repetitively harp on is the build quality and cosmetics of these ates--whereas (with their plastic mikes and thin casings)  the hds3/edse et. al. look like they could be ten buck phones, the ates look like overpriced shures or ues--the cost engineering is very impressive. and scary, when you think that we yankees have to compete with it.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> thanks podster--i'll keep 'em on all week. one thing i will repetitively harp on is the build quality and cosmetics of these ates--whereas (with their plastic mikes and thin casings)  the hds3/edse et. al. look like they could be ten buck phones, the ates look like overpriced shures or ues--the cost engineering is very impressive. and scary, when you think that we yankees have to compete with it.


 

 Fender does not seem to be scared
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 LOL I don't think any company (American) can keep up with China as they get their product for so much cheaper and for me at least it started many moons ago with the fall of companies like Curtis Mathis (SP?), what amazes me even more is how fast the Chinese have caught onto technologies and they are making some fine products in many sectors to we Yanks chagrin
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the other hand there are some nice things to be had for cheap in price but not quality


----------



## crabdog

podster said:


> Fender does not seem to be scared
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Some companies have spent a lot of time and resources on R&D over the years to make awesome stuff but it's amazing what the Chinese can achieve in a short time with some reverse engineering 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having said that, it's really great to see that not only do some make great copies of tried and tested products but they are also innovating on their own terms and that's when we as consumers really start to benefit.


----------



## vapman

crabdog said:


> Some companies have spent a lot of time and resources on R&D over the years to make awesome stuff but it's amazing what the Chinese can achieve in a short time with some reverse engineering


 
 They've always been by far some of the best at hacking in every way. An unthinkable amount of seriously impressive reverse engineering software  Heck, by Street Fighter II everyone knew not to mess with Chinese hacking skills... but I digress.,


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> Some companies have spent a lot of time and resources on R&D over the years to make awesome stuff but it's amazing what the Chinese can achieve in a short time with some reverse engineering
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Indeed, I think the Chinese got a late start into the reverse engineering scheme as the Japanese perfected it years ago with the auto industry. Our big (may be pig) headed-ness for a lack of better term at having big cars as opposed to small cars hurt us big time as we never thought we would have to cram in a little rocket box instead of being relaxed an our Big Old SUV's. Several factors like fuel prices and the economy were involved as well but the Japanese saw opportunity and built Civics and Corolla's that could easily see a couple hundred K on the odometer with regular maintenance and then they started copying some more high dollar brands! I always thought the early Mazda RX7 was a copy of Porsche, Mazda also in the late 90's were copying Mercedes rear ends but what really did us in was a lack of refinement and quality on our end
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not taking anything away from American auto builders but decisions to cut corners higher up was IMHO helped the Japanese get a stronghold on auto sales here. I mean nothing burns me up more than a little american flag sticker on the back of anything none American
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OK, enough of what the Pod thinks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Back to this budget I'm working on!!


----------



## loomisjohnson

it's also impressive, in a perverse way, the effort our asian peers are putting into knocking off these knockoff iems. i recently bought a pair of fake xioami pistons (you get what you pay for) and was absolutely flabbergasted at the attention to detail and counterfeiting skill--all for a $7 item which, after shipping and packaging, couldn't have yielded more that a buck of profit. somehow, that dedication is both admirable and terrifying--we simply can't compete.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> it's also impressive, in a perverse way, the effort our asian peers are putting into knocking off these knockoff iems. i recently bought a pair of fake xioami pistons (you get what you pay for) and was absolutely flabbergasted at the attention to detail and counterfeiting skill--all for a $7 item which, after shipping and packaging, couldn't have yielded more that a buck of profit. somehow, that dedication is both admirable and terrifying--we simply can't compete.


 

 I always used to say "Thank your Politicians" but I may be closer than I want to admit. Bad trade policy might not hurt you today but the effects can carry on
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We sell our resources and manpower down the drain to make those at the top a bigger dollar! You think any Americans want to build these $7 iem's (except for Coil and his are always worth more when he's done
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I grew up in a different time and I know what a hard earned dollar is and unlike some kids today I never thought a degree was going to let me walk right into a pile of salary based on that, everyone needs a good taste of working their way uup regardless of degree status
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry guys I'm ranting again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When does the pageant begin


----------



## To.M

loomisjohnson congrats mate! I love my black ATE, they look awesome and play even better, give them a good burn-in, mine are not boomy at all, very pleasant to listen, next recomendation from me is Joyroom E107, mighty micro-driver phones


----------



## CoiL

> love my black ATE, they look awesome and play even better, give them a good burn-in, mine are not boomy at all, very pleasant to listen


 
 That made me take out my FF-mod (ATE non-S black) and do more comparing against RBW-mod (EDR2)...
 Love the large soundstage they provide (especially frontal depth and layering) against RBW-mod little smaller soundstage. Also micro-details are slightly better (especially in bass region). Also mids are slightly better. Those three things actually make FF-mod more hq hi-fi sounding... but... well... then again RBW-mod has more engaging overall sound and no graininess in highs (FF-mod cymbals can have this occasionally, probably due to large bore brass nozzle). Dammit, that makes me want to buy another ATE again and re-configure FF-mod -.-
 But... then again... I put on WOM-mod, which basically combines both mods strong points put together + bass goes deeper and just fall in music...
 Btw, WOM-mod is quite similar to VE Monk and that says quite a lot about it imo. Can`t wait to deal with my DDD-Monk-mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But that`s another story and requires more designing and experimenting 
 Guess it`s good to have such different "flavours" in collection... makes easier to pursuit personal sound "heaven" and more modding fun!


----------



## vapman

coil said:


> That made me take out my FF-mod (ATE non-S black) and do more comparing against RBW-mod (EDR2)...
> Love the large soundstage they provide (especially frontal depth and layering) against RBW-mod little smaller soundstage. Also micro-details are slightly better (especially in bass region). Also mids are slightly better. Those three things actually make FF-mod more hq hi-fi sounding... but... well... then again RBW-mod has more engaging overall sound and no graininess in highs (FF-mod cymbals can have this occasionally, probably due to large bore brass nozzle). Dammit, that makes me want to buy another ATE again and re-configure FF-mod -.-
> But... then again... I put on WOM-mod, which basically combines both mods strong points put together + bass goes deeper and just fall in music...
> Guess it`s good to have such different "flavours" in collection... makes easier to pursuit personal sound "heaven".


 

 Sorry for the ignorance... what's the mod you've done to the black ATE?
 I'm looking to recable one of mine, about to order the wire off aliexpress.


----------



## CoiL

* Top plastic covers removed and replaced with wood faceplates.
 * Golden mesh-grills taken from inside and installed inside wood backplate > open-back
 * Plastic nozzles have been cut off and replaced with ED9 brass nozzles (breathing hole closed)
 * Port holes down at nozzle (plastic shell) are also closed
 * Body behind backplates has been sanded down to lower IEM shape reaching out of ear
 * Cable changed for IE800 cable
 * Using with HUAST H10 very wide bore silicone tips which give deep insertion and perfect seal
  
 Check my Workshop gallery for pics


----------



## tusharthegamer

I found ED3 Acme best suitable with my dx80.. and the soundstage is simply immersive.. hds1 and ed9 both were put on hold for next couple of weeks


----------



## CGrish

coil said:


> Hmmm... not so many have EDR2 imo, at least in this thread, yet, compared to ED9 owners
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What is this RBW-mod you keep on speaking of?


----------



## CoiL

please read few pages back... I don`t want so much attention on my mods, otherwise some users may flag and report my posts as unsuitable


----------



## loomisjohnson

coil et. al.
 probably a stupid question, but if i taped over the holes in the casings of the hds3 in order to get better isolation would it compromise the sound quality in a bad way?


----------



## CoiL

don`t know... I don`t have HDS3. Different IEMs react differently to port-hole shutting (may also cause driver flex).


----------



## James Freeman

The holes are for bass tuning.
 More holes less bass.
 Less holes/closed more bass.
  
 Get blue tack and experiment.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> The holes are for bass tuning.


 
 Not only. Soundstage and "airyness" can also change. Also depends where port holes are done and what`s their purpose, they can be done only for avoiding driver flex also.


> More holes less bass.
> Less holes/closed more bass.


 
 Not always. Some IEM`s do opposite - more holes/open = more bass. Fine example of that was(is) Yinjw WOM-mod


----------



## James Freeman

I know that the volume between the diaphragm and the ear drum should be perfectly sealed for maximum bass, even the smallest hole in this space and the bass is lowered, that is why the correct tips are important.
 IEM diaphragm don't move that much, they rely on *pressure* in a closed volume to generate bass.
 Driver flex is reduced by making a hole in this area but in the cost of some bass.
  
 The holes behind the diaphragm/capsule is a hole D) different story!
 Tuning/bass/airyness/you name it.
 It almost has not effect the cavity behind the diaphragm unless it's completely closed.
 When the back is completely closed it makes another pressure chamber, so two pressure chambers with the diaphragm sandwiched between them.
  
  
 That is why you can see different cavity volume behind the diaphragm with the same diaphragm to create different tuning.
 But most important is the diaphragm exit hole diameter and it's length along with the nozzle diameter and length.
  
 In this order: HDS2, ED9, HDS3, ED3 Acme, Probably the same driver. Some sound good others not so good.
  
 *Red arrow:


----------



## James Freeman

I drilled a hole in the back to experiment with sound... absolutely no difference.
 The small hole near the cable entrance is all it takes to avoid driver flex.
  
 Then I got really curious!
 Me ED3 Acmes took one for science (bit the dust I should say). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Great build quality, very sturdy, all metal, sound meh.


----------



## gvekiaris

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIFI-Headphone-Dynamic-Pronunciation-Unit-Headset-Stereo-Earphone-KZ-HDS1-/252308608592?var=&hash=item3abec3d650m_XUxJakwmPBnEKUlbERfvg
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rich-Bass-Headset-KZ-ED3M-Youth-HIFI-Headphone-Stereo-Earphones-For-Phone-MP3-/252307288826?var=&hash=item3abeafb2fam_FIa4ZGKXxFocuepvf24Aw
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ED9-Rich-Bass-Headphones-HIFI-Stereo-Headsets-Noise-isolating-Earphones-W-Mic-/262318979866?hash=item3d136dfb1a:g:AWwAAOSwmmxW2VQ-
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS1-Professional-HIFI-Double-Drive-Headphone-Bass-Headset-Stereo-Earphone-MIC-/262396885040?hash=item3d1812b830:g:g18AAOSwd3dXF6j9
  
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-KZ-ED4-Bass-Metal-High-Stereo-Earphones-HiFi-Headphone-With-Mic-Headset-/262317387585?hash=item3d1355af41:g:d5YAAOSwYlJW2AUJ
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-KZ-ED2-Bass-Metal-High-Stereo-Earphones-HiFi-Headphone-With-Mic-Headset-/262317372727?var=&hash=item3d13557537mubdoYKKlWgdpJHjMlAaS5g
  
  
KZ-HDS1 or KZ-ED3M or KZ-ED9 or KZ-ZS1 or KZ-ED4 or KZ-ED2
  
  
 your opinion please 
  
 the price is almost the same


----------



## B9Scrambler

gvekiaris What signature do you want? Balanced, bassy, treble heavy, vocal focused? If it doesn't matter, I would go ED9 or HDS1.


----------



## Ruben123

gvekiaris said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIFI-Headphone-Dynamic-Pronunciation-Unit-Headset-Stereo-Earphone-KZ-HDS1-/252308608592?var=&hash=item3abec3d650m_XUxJakwmPBnEKUlbERfvg
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rich-Bass-Headset-KZ-ED3M-Youth-HIFI-Headphone-Stereo-Earphones-For-Phone-MP3-/252307288826?var=&hash=item3abeafb2fam_FIa4ZGKXxFocuepvf24Aw
> ...


 

 What do you listen to? Id opt for HDS1 for warm-neutralish or ED9 for bright-neutralish (or v shaped with golden filter)


----------



## gvekiaris

ruben123 said:


> What do you listen to? Id opt for HDS1 for warm-neutralish or ED9 for bright-neutralish (or v shaped with golden filter)


 
  
  


b9scrambler said:


> @gvekiaris What signature do you want? Balanced, bassy, treble heavy, vocal focused? If it doesn't matter, I would go ED9 or HDS1.


 
  
 so both propose me ED9 and HDS1
  
 i want balanced sound  but i want good quality MICROPHONE
  
 what to choose from the two ?


----------



## crabdog

gvekiaris said:


> so both propose me ED9 and HDS1
> 
> i want balanced sound  but i want good quality MICROPHONE
> 
> what to choose from the two ?


 
 All of the KZ have basically the same microphone as far as I know.


----------



## goodluck4u

gvekiaris said:


> so both propose me ED9 and HDS1
> 
> i want balanced sound  but i want good quality MICROPHONE
> 
> what to choose from the two ?




HDS1 is a smaller and lighter iems possibly because of using a 6mm driver. You may know about the fact.


----------



## Podster

gvekiaris said:


> so both propose me ED9 and HDS1
> 
> i want balanced sound  but i want good quality MICROPHONE
> 
> what to choose from the two ?


 

 Now this is just my opinion and how I see these two which are KZ keepers for me, the ED9 with filter choices do reach a little farther than the HDS1's but once again for me the HDS1 is a warmer and more even sounding iem compared to the ED9. ED9 are heavy (best worn over ear) and the HDS1 is so light and small you hardly know they are in. I think both have decent balance and not 100% sure but I believe the mic's are the same. So to answer you question from my standpoint if you don't mind a heavier iem the ED9 offers a little more diversity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Don't think you would be disappointed with either really


----------



## Podster

james freeman said:


> I drilled a hole in the back to experiment with sound... absolutely no difference.
> The small hole near the cable entrance is all it takes to avoid driver flex.
> 
> Then I got really curious!
> ...


 

 OK James, back away from the Dremel Tool
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jk
  
 I'm just Jelli of you and Coil because my little finger is the size of a nice Bratwurst


----------



## loomisjohnson

toM, i've got the joyroom in my shopping cart for my next drunk-purchase. i'm still struggling with my ates, but i got a pair of tennmak dulcimer which i'm really impressed with--very, very refined iem; powerful low end and lots of detail. $19, but these actually are competitive with my much pricier phones.


----------



## kz ed9

how can i remove the filters of my kz ed9?


----------



## Podster

kz ed9 said:


> how can i remove the filters of my kz ed9?


 

 They are threaded so just unscrew them!


----------



## kz ed9

i have tried but i don't succeed barehanded


----------



## Pittas

I received my black ed9s yesterday.
I ve been having the illness of kz and purchased almost every model that circulates currently. 
My main music listening is rock and heavy metal from the 70s till nowadays.
My favoyrite iems are as follows

ED9
S3 (THE ACME)
ZN1 MINI
EDR2
ATE (NOT S)
HDS1
HDS3
EDSE
ED4

Since i saw some people compared directly ed9 with edr2, my 2 pennies is that ed9 is hands down the best of the 2....the clarity of sound of the ed9 is unreachable by the edr2. Ofcourse this impression is subjective.
So far the ed9 have managed to impress me, not to forget the possibility of interchangeable nozzles. 
Overall for someone who wants an introduction to the KZ iems, ed9 is the best chance to get addicted, ofc its a matter of taste. The way i see it you cant go wrong with any of the first 6 iems. Imho hds3,edse,ed4 are kinda boring compared to the top of the list, but thats again only my impression.

Its a pity i cannot make ate sit properly in my ear, i bet it would be higher in the list, instead zn1 mini even though its huge size fits perfectly. Just goes to show how much subjectivity enters the game. Likewise i have difficulties finding proper fit for edr2, whereas ed9 sat perfectly in my ear with the default eartips.


----------



## seanwee

pittas said:


> I received my black ed9s yesterday.
> I ve been having the illness of kz and purchased almost every model that circulates currently.
> My main music listening is rock and heavy metal from the 70s till nowadays.
> My favoyrite iems are as follows
> ...


 
 SHOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooottttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 I got the EDR2 instead of the ED9 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................


----------



## B9Scrambler

Pittas Couldn't disagree with you more on ED9 vs. EDR2, haha. ED9 is great. Not disputing that. EDR2 is more proficient on a technical level. ED9's trouble is just too rough and uncontrolled, and their bass drops off early and doesn't dig all that deep. I'll give ED9 more of a fun factor though, especially with the Gold nozzles.

Don't think you'll have anything to worry about seanwee. EDR2 is a steal of an iem.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> @Pittas Couldn't disagree with you more on ED9 vs. EDR2, haha. ED9 is great. Not disputing that. EDR2 is more proficient on a technical level. ED9's trouble is just too rough and uncontrolled, and their bass drops off early and doesn't dig all that deep. I'll give ED9 more of a fun factor though, especially with the Gold nozzles.
> 
> Don't think you'll have anything to worry about @seanwee. EDR2 is a steal of an iem.


 

 Now see this is why we always say this hobby is so subjective and not to put a burr in you B9 but I was totally unimpressed with the EDR2 (last KZ's I bought) and for me they are just so-so. I still prefer the HDS1 to them but to each their own
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 We are even opposite on the ED9 in that I much prefer the brass filter to the gold, I like lively and up front especially in the upper ranges. None of these KZ's are bad iem's for the money and it's really personal preference. I was right with Pittas until I hit the EDR2!
  
 Because of subjectivity and preference I'm good with agreeing to disagree


----------



## Pittas

Yeah...chill out guys.
I stated more than once this was my personal impression. 
I am not opening any flames. 
Ofc edr2 is a steal... i bought 2 for 10 dollars.
But imho ed9 are more professional in every aspect..sound,looks,build. I also like its smaller dimension compared to the bulky edr2


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Now see this is why we always say this hobby is so subjective and not to put a burr in you B9 but I was totally unimpressed with the EDR2 (last KZ's I bought) and for me they are just so-so. I still prefer the HDS1 to them but to each their own
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I completely agree good sir. No burrs at all! The EDR2 basically replaced the ED9 and HDS1 or me. I greatly prefer it to either of those, though I still think they are both awesome and probably top 5 KZs. One thing I found about the EDR2 was that they out of the box they were great, but not one of those iems to give you a "wow, these are good moment". The more I listen to them the better they get. I've been using them for what, around 4 months now, and my enthusiasm hasn't waned one iota, unlike with some other KZs.
  
 There are quite a few KZs that I'm lukewarm about that others quite enjoy; ZN1 Mini, ED9, HDS3 (for those that managed to get a working pair), EDse (thought I did like them quite a bit when I first got them). There are probably more. With the exception of the HDS3, I think all of them are excellent iems just not ones that suit my listening preferences. There are quite a few KZs that I love that others are lukewarm about; ED10, ANV (read earlier in the thread....they were hated and oft advised to avoid), ZS1, ED4, among others.
  
 So yeah, everything is entirely subjective and when you take into account source gear, listening volumes, music genres, etc. it gets even more challenging to understand some opinions. That's where discussion comes into play. Unfortunately, it seems lately that threads have devolved in arguments instead of discussion, one of the reasons why I've been much less vocal in the forums this year. People seem to get hyper-defensive towards any counterpoint. I really only share when I find something I think others will enjoy (EDR2 and QKZ W1 Pro are more recent examples), or step in when I feel an opposing opinion could be helpful (such as the post that led to this discussion).
  
 So yeah. Sidetrack over. Here, have some Micro Ring love!
  
​


----------



## Podster

pittas said:


> Yeah...chill out guys.
> I stated more than once this was my personal impression.
> I am not opening any flames.
> Ofc edr2 is a steal... i bought 2 for 10 dollars.
> But imho ed9 are more professional in every aspect..sound,looks,build. I also like its smaller dimension compared to the bulky edr2


 

 We're cool Ese, B9 and I are both KZ fans he like so many of us hear them a little differently but I respect his thoughts and views


----------



## gvekiaris

So some people prefer EDR2 than ED9 and HDS1
  
 what do you think? 
  
 Which is the best of KZ earphones?


----------



## bhazard

I have a massive collection of KZ I need to rid myself of (as I don't use many of them much). I'll post in the classifieds as soon as I have some time.
  
 I have some of the old school ones like the Micro Ring, so those looking for them might be happy to try them out.
  
 Still waiting on KZ to push out a high quality, low priced hybrid multi driver. The ZN1 and such isn't really a signature I go for.


----------



## gvekiaris

bhazard said:


> I have a massive collection of KZ I need to rid myself of (as I don't use many of them much). I'll post in the classifieds as soon as I have some time.
> 
> I have some of the old school ones like the Micro Ring, so those looking for them might be happy to try them out.
> 
> Still waiting on KZ to push out a high quality, low priced hybrid multi driver. The ZN1 and such isn't really a signature I go for.


 
  
 So my friend which models of KZ do you think are the better?


----------



## Mellowship

EDR2 sometimes seems a little congested to me. I think the best thing about them is the wide and airy soundstage compared to the others, but in more complex fragments, they seem a little messy. Not much time with them, though. Been using them for the past 2 days only. 
 For my personal taste and overall capabilities, the ATE are my favourite KZ, despite their "dark" temper.


----------



## seanwee

b9scrambler said:


> @Pittas Couldn't disagree with you more on ED9 vs. EDR2, haha. ED9 is great. Not disputing that. EDR2 is more proficient on a technical level. ED9's trouble is just too rough and uncontrolled, and their bass drops off early and doesn't dig all that deep. I'll give ED9 more of a fun factor though, especially with the Gold nozzles.
> 
> *Don't think you'll have anything to worry about @seanwee. EDR2 is a steal of an iem.*


 
 Thats reassureing


----------



## willy156

kz ate worth the $23? How these compare to VSD3s? My vsd3s broke down and looking for a new iem.


----------



## Mellowship

willy156 said:


> kz ate worth the $23? How these compare to VSD3s? My vsd3s broke down and looking for a new iem.


 
  
 I have the Shures. They are worth the 99$. In the following comparison, the VSD3s are put at roughly the same level. If yours broke down, and if you like them, I suggest you get another one 
 The ATEs are good, but don't compete quite in the same league. Tlaking 'bout worth, I'd say the ATE are one of the best IEMs up to 50$ as the other two up to 100$.
 You can always try to pick up a ATE at AliExp. for roughly 8$ and test it. Maybe it's your cup-o-tea! 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755390/review-a-remarkable-comparable-of-affordable-detachables-vsonic-vsd3-vs-shure-se215


----------



## seanwee

mellowship said:


> I have the Shures. *They are worth the 99$*. In the following comparison, the VSD3s are put at roughly the same level. If yours broke down, and if you like them, I suggest you get another one
> The ATEs are good, but don't compete quite in the same league. Tlaking 'bout worth, I'd say the ATE are one of the best IEMs up to 50$ as the other two up to 100$.
> You can always try to pick up a ATE at AliExp. for roughly 8$ and test it. Maybe it's your cup-o-tea!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/755390/review-a-remarkable-comparable-of-affordable-detachables-vsonic-vsd3-vs-shure-se215


not anymore


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> I drilled a hole in the back to experiment with sound... absolutely no difference.
> The small hole near the cable entrance is all it takes to avoid driver flex.


 
 Yeah, with some IEM`s there`s no difference. Another fine example for that case was ED10 - open or closed - made no difference.
 EDR2 already changed sound littlebit with little hole in the back, full open even more. But I found half-closed solution to be best and btw, wood chamber has different sound reflection properties than aluminium, and depending on wood used this can affect sound littlebit.


----------



## CADCAM

With all the talking about the EDR2 going on I pulled mine out and have been listening all day.... so far and I'm pleasantly surprised! I gave them a quick listen when they arrived and was like OK sounds good nothing great. I have been enjoying them today a bit more...nice bass, clean and clear overall...not too shabby. Another cheap good sounding KZ iem. Nice!
  
 Also make sure you guys thoroughly wash the stock tips (any tips) you get from China. I also wash my tips regularly to provide a clean tip going in my ear canal... basic stuff I know but wanted to mention it in case some are getting lazy with basic hygiene and iem's.


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> With all the talking about the EDR2 going on I pulled mine out and have been listening all day.... so far and I'm pleasantly surprised! I gave them a quick listen when they arrived and was like OK sounds good nothing great. I have been enjoying them today a bit more...nice bass, clean and clear overall...not too shabby. Another cheap good sounding KZ iem. Nice!
> 
> Also make sure you guys thoroughly wash the stock tips (any tips) you get from China. I also wash my tips regularly to provide a clean tip going in my ear canal... basic stuff I know but wanted to mention it in case some are getting lazy with basic hygiene and iem's. :etysmile:




Now look what you did I'm going to pull my EDR2 out and give them anothet run because for me they were just so-so out of the box but I did jam them for a couple days and they did not seem to change much after 30 hours but maybe I'll throw them down on the burn for a couple full days and see. They were just about in my boys spares box


----------



## Ruben123

I find the edr2s being OK at being OK. They don't do anything wrong but not anything outstanding good too. 
Its treble isn't sharp which is a good start as quite some kzs have a tad sharp highs


----------



## Mellowship

ruben123 said:


> *I find the edr2s being OK at being OK. They don't do anything wrong but not anything outstanding good too.*
> Its treble isn't sharp which is a good start as quite some kzs have a tad sharp highs


 
  
 I think that's a good definition. They are OK... 
  
 What about the EDse? Are there any reviews/impressions? I ordered a pair from the AE "flagship" just to ... well... because.


----------



## pashhtk27

And Edr2 in my opinion sound the best out of a ****ty source like my pc's front panel. All my other earphones sound worse. xD


----------



## seanwee

pashhtk27 said:


> And Edr2 in my opinion sound the best out of a ****ty source like my pc's front panel. All my other earphones sound worse. xD


 
 Huh, is that so.......
 That would mean that the EDR2 lacks scalability with better sources
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but is unaffected by s***ty sources
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I only own the EDR2 so i cant compare the other KZ


----------



## pashhtk27

I mean it is very forgiving in my opinion. I don't really have significatly better sources with though - just my phone which is fair. *wink*
Treble on other earphone becomes croppy and unbearable while with edr2 it doesn't....


----------



## Ruben123

Ey guys... what I meant: The EDR2s are not excellent in any way (literally). KZ ED9 with its highs are great at classical music I think, ED8 with its bass are good for hiphop and EDM, EDSE with its v shape for modern music etc etc
 The EDR2 is somewhat balanced but also not, it has a tad more bass and treble to call it balanced which isnt bad, it just suits the most genres I think! But it doesnt fit one genre perfectly. No music style is outstanding with them but at the same time you can listen to all genres with them.


----------



## willy156

thinking of purchasing kz ate S version (black memory cable) from gearbest. are they legit? And how long did it take for you guys to receive ? thanks.


----------



## nolife1123

willy156 said:


> thinking of purchasing kz ate S version (black memory cable) from gearbest. are they legit? And how long did it take for you guys to receive ? thanks.


 
 Yeah, they're legit and it should take about a month, they're not extremely quick lately.


----------



## willy156

nolife1123 said:


> Yeah, they're legit and it should take about a month, they're not extremely quick lately.


 
 dang, a month? Has it been this long from every other retailer too? My earphones recently broke so I'm kind of desperate here lol.


----------



## nolife1123

willy156 said:


> dang, a month? Has it been this long from every other retailer too? My earphones recently broke so I'm kind of desperate here lol.


 
 Well, it's usually 3-6 weeks (an estimate from over 1000 orders I've had in the past 4-5 years), but it's usually just under a month, depends how long the actual china part takes, after it's shipped it usually takes only a few days to arrive.


----------



## smy1

nolife1123 said:


> Well, it's usually 3-6 weeks (an estimate from over 1000 orders I've had in the past 4-5 years), but it's usually just under a month, depends how long the actual china part takes, after it's shipped it usually takes only a few days to arrive.




Wait so if my order is in the processing stage ( I believe it's at the airport.) it will only take couple more days or do I have to wait maybe another week


----------



## nolife1123

smy1 said:


> Wait so if my order is in the processing stage ( I believe it's at the airport.) it will only take couple more days or do I have to wait maybe another week


 
 When it says "Shipped by air" it's likely there within a week, if it's still in processing stages (getting clearance, or even getting transported to the airport, since it usually takes 2-3 stops towards the airport) it can take weeks.


----------



## smy1

nolife1123 said:


> When it says "Shipped by air" it's likely there within a week, if it's still in processing stages (getting clearance, or even getting transported to the airport, since it usually takes 2-3 stops towards the airport) it can take weeks.


 
 it says Your item has been processed through our facility in ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS). So its in US right?


----------



## ryannguyen699

Hi guys, between kz zn1 mini,ks zs1/2 and ed9, ate; which one i should take for balanced sound and good sound stage ?


----------



## nolife1123

smy1 said:


> it says [COLOR=333333]Your item has been processed through our facility in ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS). So its in US right?[/COLOR]



Yeah, but I'm from Europe, those should be the final stages.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> cadcam said:
> 
> 
> > With all the talking about the EDR2 going on I pulled mine out and have been listening all day.... so far and I'm pleasantly surprised! I gave them a quick listen when they arrived and was like OK sounds good nothing great. I have been enjoying them today a bit more...nice bass, clean and clear overall...not too shabby. Another cheap good sounding KZ iem. Nice!
> ...





ruben123 said:


> Ey guys... what I meant: The EDR2s are not excellent in any way (literally). KZ ED9 with its highs are great at classical music I think, ED8 with its bass are good for hiphop and EDM, EDSE with its v shape for modern music etc etc
> The EDR2 is somewhat balanced but also not, it has a tad more bass and treble to call it balanced which isnt bad, it just suits the most genres I think! But it doesnt fit one genre perfectly. No music style is outstanding with them but at the same time you can listen to all genres with them.


 

 Guys, remove foam pieces from nozzles!


----------



## Ruben123

Yeah but I guess I have to break the earphone for that?


----------



## CoiL

If removing nozzle fabric grills with needle tip, pulling out foam pieces and putting fabric grills back (original glue should still stick) is breaking earphone for You
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... then don`t do it.
  
 But yeah, EDR2 isn`t right out of the box "wow!" IEM, it does everything and every genre just about right - that`s why I rate EDR2 best KZ IEM to date (from the ones I own). Of course that`s only about SQ part excluding cable, size, fit etc.
 With removed nozzle foams,  modified chambers (open-back or half open "reflect" chamber) and changed cable I find it almost The Best KZ to date. Almost, because like I commented already, It could have little more separation/layering in the middle front soundstage depth, slightly better mids maybe (though they are quite neutral and good) and slightly better overall resolution and micro-details.
  
 Just my 2 cents about EDR2. Great first KZ IEM to start with and definitely recommend to try it, IMHSO.


----------



## Ruben123

Dont the grills fall easily out when you put them back then?


----------



## CoiL

> ...putting fabric grills back (original glue should still stick)


 
 At least my EDR2 grills had very sticky glue and could be easily installed back.


----------



## seanwee

ruben123 said:


> Ey guys... what I meant: The EDR2s are not excellent in any way (literally). *KZ ED9 with its highs are great at classical music* I think, ED8 with its bass are good for hiphop and EDM, EDSE with its v shape for modern music etc etc
> The EDR2 is somewhat balanced but also not, it has a tad more bass and treble to call it balanced which isnt bad, it just suits the most genres I think! But it doesnt fit one genre perfectly. No music style is outstanding with them but at the same time you can listen to all genres with them.


 
 I really should have gotten these first ........ 
 I know that they are cheap and i can just buy them anyways but whats stopping me is the 1 month shipping.


----------



## seanwee

coil said:


> At least my EDR2 grills had very sticky glue and could be easily installed back.


 
 same here


----------



## CoiL

seanwee said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > At least my EDR2 grills had very sticky glue and could be easily installed back.
> ...


 
 So, You tried EDR2 without foams? Did You like improvement?


----------



## seanwee

coil said:


> If removing nozzle fabric grills with needle tip, pulling out foam pieces and putting fabric grills back (original glue should still stick) is breaking earphone for You
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 but not everyone can/is willing to do that .
  
 I dont have the tools to grind down the casing.


----------



## seanwee

coil said:


> So, You tried EDR2 without foams? Did You like improvement?


 
 Its marginal for me. The difference could be bigger but i cant do an A-B to be sure.


----------



## CoiL

Yes, it`s nothing big but for my ears clearly noticeable difference - more sparkly highs and clearer mids, kind of reminds me ED9 but without harshness or slight sibilance in vocals.
 Will probably buy more EDR2`s for modding and give them away as gifts, then I can do A/B switch test.
  
 Took a new better pic of my EDR2 RBW-mod (using with CX300 replacement tips, optimal bore size and great seal with this IEM imho):


----------



## vegetaleb

Finally got my ATES!
 It took 1 month and one week
 My first impressions with HTC A9 Boomsound:
 -Bass is a bit more than I would like but it won't eat from other channels
 -Treble and Mids are very good, with some songs the treble can be slightly too high
 -Details are high
 -Soundstage is good
 -Fit is very good specially with the memory wire
 Conclusion: the perfect earphones for sports, and at 10$ they really sound like a 100$ Sony
  
 Tried some Psytrance, Trance, Rock and Metal
 It can be good with all of them but it really depends on the song, Astrix new songs from He.Art sounded too bassy like if your ears were gona explode while with Bliss Giants are attacking it's much smoother
 Do they need burning?
  
 Let's see how the HTC Hi-Res stock iem of the 10 will be (in some weeks)


----------



## tusharthegamer

ryannguyen699 said:


> Hi guys, between kz zn1 mini,ks zs1/2 and ed9, ate; which one i should take for balanced sound and good sound stage ?


 
  
 Ed9


----------



## Podster

tusharthegamer said:


> Ed9


 

 No argument here and more options via the two filters


----------



## elemeno

I can't seem to unscrew the nozzles on my kz ed9s? Someone in this thread seemed to have the same problem a few days ago, but they were left unanswered. Is this a problem with fakes, or something?


----------



## willy156

well, thinking of picking up a pair of Kz Ate S. Which is the best retailer to purchase from ? I don't want to wait a month if that is possible, my current earphones only have sound in one side


----------



## nhatduongchi

Try Amazon, I saw some KZ models, some with Prime so you can have it in 2 days


----------



## willy156

ordered my kz ate s black no mic. hope they arrive soon!


----------



## vegetaleb

Burned the ATES couple of hours, sound quality is getting better, bass smoother, it's back to burnin for 10 hours already and counting, will try at gym tonight.
 Compared to HIFIMan RE-272 they are certainly bassier, though better treble levels (RE-272 was sometimes a bit over-treble) vocals are better and I can hear some details I couldn't hear with the Hifiman, weird knowing the ATES are much cheaper and the RE-272 were the king of soundstage back 5 years ago


----------



## CADCAM

elemeno said:


> I can't seem to unscrew the nozzles on my kz ed9s? Someone in this thread seemed to have the same problem a few days ago, but they were left unanswered. Is this a problem with fakes, or something?


 
 I unscrew mine with a tip in place...makes it easier to unscrew.


----------



## willy156

woah guys. I just purchased the KZ ATE S no more than 24 hours ago and it has already been shipped out. purchased from gearbest. Should I expect at least 2 weeks wait?


----------



## nolife1123

willy156 said:


> woah guys. I just purchased the KZ ATE S no more than 24 hours ago and it has already been shipped out. purchased from gearbest. Should I expect at least 2 weeks wait?


 
 They always do that, but that doesn't actually mean that they've been shipped, only when your tracking number starts working will they actually be on a move somewhere, I've had shipments waiting for 2 weeks before the tracking number started working, but they arrived in no more than 2 weeks after that.


----------



## loomisjohnson

you were right, the ates do smooth out after burnin. bass in particular is somewhat tighter and less monotonic, though i still think it's the achilles heel of these otherwise fine phones--it's doesn't have the speed and musicality of say, the hds3s. in other respects, the ate is fine--very good imaging/separation, accurate naturall-sounding high end w/lots of microdetail. the form factor is a bit of an issue, and i hate those copper baubles on the cable. nonetheless a refined iem--i might play around with eq to try to tame the bass further.


----------



## willy156

copper baubbles are those weighted metal stuff ? Which is why I opted to get the ate S version


----------



## James Freeman

Burn-in is a myth...


----------



## To.M

Burn-in is not a myth… 

We can go on like this forever


----------



## Podster

james freeman said:


> Burn-in is a myth...


 

 Right, just like the weight many of us gather over time
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nothing audio changes over time


----------



## Wiljen

james freeman said:


> Burn-in is a myth...


 
  
 Right like the idea that you need to change your oil or have your teeth cleaned.
  
 I agree that there is plenty of snake oil being sold in the audio world, but I see no reason to think that burn-in regarding moving components is amongst those.   Anything with moving parts is subject to wear and friction and it is only reasonable to think that any tiny burrs or high spots on mating surfaces would be smoothed out over time.   We see the same principles in action in all kinds of other fields and I see no reason to believe the laws of physics don't apply just because this is an audio component and not some other form of electric motor.


----------



## Ruben123

wiljen said:


> Right like the idea that you need to change your oil or have your teeth cleaned.
> 
> I agree that there is plenty of snake oil being sold in the audio world, but I see no reason to think that burn-in regarding moving components is amongst those.   Anything with moving parts is subject to wear and friction and it is only reasonable to think that any tiny burrs or high spots on mating surfaces would be smoothed out over time.   We see the same principles in action in all kinds of other fields and I see no reason to believe the laws of physics don't apply just because this is an audio component and not some other form of electric motor.




Innerfidelity proved burn in doesn't exist, but I guess his measurements don't mean much here  James is too one who seems to know where he's talking about. Also always burn in seems to make the sound better instead of worse... That's suspicious


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ Z1 came in today. Ootb and after a super-quick comparo with the ED4.....they sound the same. Maybe the Z1 has a bit less sub-bass, but that could always be attributed to burn-in of the brain, or fairy dust, or maybe even the physical kind. We shall never know! Things may change in time, so take these current comments with a salty grain for now. If anything changes, a post will magically appear! Spooooooky!! 
  
​


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Innerfidelity proved burn in doesn't exist, but I guess his measurements don't mean much here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not saying better or worse but all moving parts change with wear. No bragg's, just facts, said in the voice of Walter Brennan


----------



## crabdog

I haven't ruled out the possibility of burn-in being legit but I'm fairly certain most of my stuff sounds pretty much like it did ootb. If it makes such a difference I think producers by now would be using it as a marketing tool eg: "200 hour factory burn-in!!" I prefer to do the burning on my ears though. I'm choosing to be like an agnostic here


----------



## Wiljen

I think burn in can have an impact IF there is a high spot or burr that is buffed by movement.  I also think in a lot of cases, no such burr exists so, no such effect is seen.   Arguably things like glue could be work softened or work hardened depending on the physical properties of the material but again, this is looking at it as purely a mechanical and electrical engineering problem and if the components are selected to avoid those stresses then no changes would be expected.  
  
 I do think an awful lot of what we see as burn in effect is more the listener adjusting to the device rather than the device itself adjusting but that isnt to say that exceptions dont or cant exist as some have suggested.


----------



## CADCAM

Factory burn-in is already readily available on most if not all higher end cables and some speaker manufactures run speakers for x amount of hours prior to shipping. Either for testing or a little factory burn-in I suppose.
  
 My pops (smartest guy I ever met) who was a design engineer for 40+ years said a driver is a linear motor and the voice coil is essentially a spring (my terminology here).


----------



## vegetaleb

Ok tried the ATES at the gym  after about 20 hours, bass is definitely smoother but only by a margin.
 The ATES are the only earphones I used in gym that didn't pop out of my ears under weight pressure (thanks to the memory wires) I am using mid tips from Hifiman. The ones given by KZ were too big or too small.
 My only complaint is that the side with the mic has a tendency jump too much when running hitting my right ear
 I have found a way to greatly decrease the bass, if I put the tip in perfect fit it will trap too much bass in the ear canal, but if I let it even a slight 0.1 mm unfit and it will be miles better without losing details and volume! And even if not 100% fit it still blocks any external noises.
 I am really surprised by the level of details and voice for this price, it beats the RE-272 sometimes!
 Definitely better than any branded iem under 100$
 My next earphones will be the stock ones of the HTC 10 that are supposed to be delightful


----------



## smy1

Am I the only one who finds the ATE muddy/dark?


----------



## audio123

smy1 said:


> Am I the only one who finds the ATE muddy/dark?


no same here.very muddy


----------



## James Freeman

You don't get cone break-in or mechanical settling in a 7mm driver either, as much as you want to believe.
 The above is fully done in the factory when the speaker/cone/earphone are tested, takes a few minutes at max.
  
 Burn-in is a psychoacoustical phenomenon, meaning, all in your brain.
 You start with a headphone that sound "close" to good from the box, and burn it in (just listen) till it sounds good.


----------



## CoiL

Guys, lets not start another "burn-in" war here. Anyone has right to belive (personal experience or theoretical belief, psychoacoustical or real change) what he/she wants. Lets end it here


----------



## James Freeman

Burn-in nonsense is my weak spot when it comes to audio science, but fair enough, I'll respect the request. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Rocking these ED9s, and got me another pair in black.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> Rocking these ED9s, and got me another pair in black.


 
 Be aware that KZ has bad QC reputation. I`ve bought together about 4-5 ED9`s and one of them had slightly different sound (later silver version). Also one my local forum guys ordered 3 and 2 were little different sounding (all from same seller). Don`t know about black ones though.


----------



## Ruben123

I traded my ED9s in for black ones, I think I was one of the first in the world owning an ED9 (for real!) but the black one looks so nice I bought one and gave away the silver ones. First thing I do though is check the damn filters lol


----------



## Sylmar

smy1 said:


> Am I the only one who finds the ATE muddy/dark?


 
 On my Cowon it's very unpleasant. Muddy indeed. But on my rockboxed iRiver H10 they are great.


----------



## seanwee

If burn-in is snake oil. I would still take it  since its free.


----------



## James Freeman

del


----------



## CADCAM

...if someone feels burn-in benefits their listening experience then I say it's a good thing. If others think it doesn't exist that's absolutely fine also. It's all about the music isn't it.


----------



## James Freeman




----------



## smy1

just got my KZ ie80s. Really liking these 
  
 pretty bassy headphones and i feel like these are lost gems in the KZ even though i never tried the ed9.


----------



## Mellowship

smy1 said:


> just got my KZ ie80s. Really liking these
> 
> pretty bassy headphones and i feel like these are lost gems in the KZ even though i never tried the ed9.


 
 I almost pulled the trigger on those but got the Moxpad X6 instead. Needed to have something else to use with the silver plated cable I got with the Shure connections... 
 But I kept them on my AE wishlist...


----------



## Mossey

Received my first KZ headphones 2 days ago, black ED9's and some ATE's.

 Really, really happy with both, love the detail on the ED9, I've actually yet to try the brass filters and right now and will probably only do so out of curiosity rather than wanting to try and 'improve' the sound signature as I'm really happy with it as is. Really liking the visceral impact of the bass, it's tight and punchy. Included medium sized tips achieved a decent seal but $1 Aliexprees comply T400 ripoffs achieve an essentially perfect seal.
  
 The ATE's are great too, there's definitely more quantity of bass than the ED9's, however are somewhat less bright. Still sound exceptionally good for the price. I think I like them more than my RHA T10i's, another bass oriented headphone (that also cost $250 AUD), however these have less soundstage. I couldn't get any of the included tips to seal properly, again with T400 ripoffs seal is essentially perfect.
  
 If I had to keep only one though I'm fairly certain it'd be the ED9. 
  
 Including aliexpress link to the comply-like foamies, actually prefer these for both isolation and comfort and they cost about 1/15th the cost of actual comply tips if bought locally (Australia).
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/C-set-4-9mm-Caliber-Earphone-Sponge-Comply-T200-T400-T500-tips-Headset-Memory-Foam-Sponge/32469980958.html


----------



## Podster

mossey said:


> Received my first KZ headphones 2 days ago, black ED9's and some ATE's.
> 
> 
> Really, really happy with both, love the detail on the ED9, I've actually yet to try the brass filters and right now and will probably only do so out of curiosity rather than wanting to try and 'improve' the sound signature as I'm really happy with it as is. Really liking the visceral impact of the bass, it's tight and punchy. Included medium sized tips achieved a decent seal but $1 Aliexprees comply T400 ripoffs achieve an essentially perfect seal.
> ...




Excellent choice on the ED9, I need you to post a nice picture of those black beauties for CAD For me the brass brings a little morr sparkle to the Mids and highs


----------



## jipan

Just got my KZ ATE. Was thinking either Auglamour R8 or ATH IM50, but laid my eyes on this deal, and for $12, too good to pass LOL
 First impression, much warmer than my ATH-SJ33, but surprisingly, not that muddy. Kind of muffled, though, the trebble really soft and lack of air. But nothing grating or shrilly, really polite. This is minute out of box, using Sansa Clip (1st gen) which categorize as dark, mind you. We'll see later when I got home and spent more times with it.


----------



## smy1

mellowship said:


> I almost pulled the trigger on those but got the Moxpad X6 instead. Needed to have something else to use with the silver plated cable I got with the Shure connections...
> But I kept them on my AE wishlist...




To my ears these are extremely good and imo has a wide soundstage


----------



## duo8

About the burn-in thing, I've actually had one pair of IEM that actually, noticeably change after a day or two of usage.
 Was the Sony MH1, 3mm micro drivers. The boomy bass reduces, giving way for the highs.


----------



## James Freeman

Let's stop talking about burn-in in subjective terms, it has been disproved countless times with a new (barely a few centuries old) and marvelous thing called SCIENCE.
 The mind is an amazing thing, it can make a 10 gauge 2 inch long speaker wire sound "better" than the old 14 gauge... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The mind takes time to get familiar with the new sound source, that is all burn-in is and will ever be.
 Nothing electronically or mechanically changes, not one iota.
  
 As I stated before, you start with a decent sounding headphones/speakers and get used to them till they sound better and become your reference (your minds reference).


----------



## CoiL

mossey said:


> The ATE's are great too, *there's definitely more quantity of bass* than the ED9's, however are *somewhat less bright*. Still sound exceptionally good for the price. I think I like them more than my RHA T10i's, another bass oriented headphone (that also cost $250 AUD), however* these have less soundstage*. I couldn't get any of the included tips to seal properly, again with T400 ripoffs seal is essentially perfect.
> 
> Including aliexpress link to the comply-like foamies, actually prefer these for both isolation and comfort and they cost about 1/15th the cost of actual comply tips if bought locally (Australia).
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/C-set-4-9mm-Caliber-Earphone-Sponge-Comply-T200-T400-T500-tips-Headset-Memory-Foam-Sponge/32469980958.html


 


jipan said:


> Just got my KZ ATE. Was thinking either Auglamour R8 or ATH IM50, but laid my eyes on this deal, and for $12, too good to pass LOL
> First impression, much warmer than my ATH-SJ33, but surprisingly, not that muddy. *Kind of muffled, though, the trebble really soft and lack of air.* But nothing grating or shrilly, really polite. This is minute out of box, using Sansa Clip (1st gen) which categorize as dark, mind you. We'll see later when I got home and spent more times with it.


 
  
 I don`t know exactly what version ATE You have but... imho... ATE (non-S version) is less bassy than ED9 with gold filters (V-shaped sound signature) and has actually littlebit better soundstage and imaging...but... to acheve this *ATE has to be used with widest bore, short-neck silicone tips possible (bore edge even with nozzle edge) and deep insertion!*
 Here are some pics with this kind of tips: http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/15#post_11787305
 Still not enough? -> do some hardcore modding and make them ported-open-back and half-close breathing hole on body.


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> Let's stop talking about burn-in in subjective terms...


 
 And lets stop posting subjective "hard-brick-wall" opinion about it... seriously, it causes only trouble. If You want to "prove" something and argue about it, go to the proper thread - this is NOT this thread and ppl are allowed to post their subjective experience and opinion. 
  
 My last 2c about this subject. I hope You won`t post about this subject here anymore, no hard feelings, just not needed.


----------



## jipan

Can I buy those kind of tips? Or is this some kind of custom tips?
  
 The mids are not as muffled as before, either because I'm used to it or the driver just loosened up. I don't have ED9, only ATH-SJ33 (lots of fun bass, airy mid and extended sometime piercing treble) and Senn HD600 (reference but somewhat thin bass).
  
 My ATE are the new stock, with no vent.
  
 Quote:


coil said:


> I don`t know exactly what version ATE You have but... imho... ATE (non-S version) is less bassy than ED9 with gold filters (V-shaped sound signature) and has actually littlebit better soundstage and imaging...but... to acheve this *ATE has to be used with widest bore, short-neck silicone tips possible (bore edge even with nozzle edge) and deep insertion!*
> Here are some pics with this kind of tips: http://www.head-fi.org/t/726229/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread/15#post_11787305
> Still not enough? -> do some hardcore modding and make them ported-open-back and half-close breathing hole on body.


----------



## CoiL

Blue ones that sit totally over nozzle are KZ whirlwinds and You can get them from aliexpress: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/exclusive-whirlwind-silicon-eartips-ear-sleeve-ear-pad-ear-tip-earphone-accessory-6-pack/32482924204.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.28.rTmTYs&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10017_10005_10006_10034_10021_507_10022_10009_10020_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201603_7&btsid=bd3580ec-d610-4307-be98-3eff49fe46fa
 Grey ones are stock ED9 tips with just piece of foam under skirt but they aren`t on level with nozzle tip-edge and have narrower bore (increased bass). There are other great silicone tips also with wide bore for ATE but that`s subject of another thread.


jipan said:


> My ATE are the new stock, with no vent.


 
 So, You have ATE-S version? Really? No breathing holes on body near the lower nozzle neck?


----------



## Ruben123

james freeman said:


> Let's stop talking about burn-in in subjective terms, it has been disproved countless times with a new (barely a few centuries old) and marvelous thing called SCIENCE.
> The mind is an amazing thing, it can make a 10 gauge 2 inch long speaker wire sound "better" than the old 14 gauge...
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Youre completely right but subjectivism>objectivism in all but the sound science threads. I find it annoying people comment on pre and post burn in, because any earphone that might be bad (too much bass and shrill treble) gets much better after burn in so other people buy it too, although in reality nothing happens.


----------



## jipan

Thanks for the links (this and the earlier tips rolling thread), very useful.
 From my discussion with other ATE user by pms, mine is the ordinary ATE, because mine didn't have the memory wires. The packaging and labels also said KZ ATE (with no S)
  
 But what make it confusing is, mine didn't had any vent on the body (I looked, because the person I talked to said the older vented version had better vocals and airier)
 Oh yeah, the RQ number is 018N8M (the vented one is said numbered as 016N8M)
  
 Quote:


coil said:


> Blue ones that sit totally over nozzle are KZ whirlwinds and You can get them from aliexpress.
> Grey ones are stock ED9 tips with just piece of foam under skirt but they aren`t on level with nozzle tip-edge and have narrower bore (increased bass). There are other great silicone tips also with wide bore for ATE but that`s subject of another thread.
> So, You have ATE-S version? Really? No breathing holes on body near the lower nozzle neck?


----------



## CoiL

jipan said:


> But what make it confusing is, *mine didn't had any vent on the body* (I looked, because the person I talked to said the *older vented version had better vocals and airier*)
> Oh yeah, the RQ number is 018N8M (the vented one is said numbered as 016N8M)


 
 Very useful information! 
 So, in the end we have 4 different ATE versions?
 1. Silver ATE
 2. Translucent black ATE with breathing holes on the body (early version)
 3. Translucent black ATE without breathing holes on the body (later version)
 4. ATE-S translucent black with memory wires (breathing holes or not?)


----------



## jipan

I think it's more like this:
 1. older vented ATE (with breathing holes) - both silver and translucent black <- the one reviewed some pages back. You can see the vent hole on his pictures.
 2. newer non vented ATE (without breathing holes) - both silver and translucent black <- like mine.
 3. non vented ATE-S (without breathing holes) with memory wires - translucent black (not sure if there are silver version) <- also had RQ number 018N8M
  
 Some of the local vendors had pictures which show non vented (without breathing hole) shell but with RQ number 016N8M (which supposedly for older vented version). All local vendors I asked had newer, non vented version with RQ: 018N8M only. Sigh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


coil said:


> Very useful information!
> So, in the end we have 4 different ATE versions?
> 1. Silver ATE
> 2. Translucent black ATE with breathing holes on the body (early version)
> ...


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> And lets stop posting subjective "hard-brick-wall" opinion about it... seriously, it causes only trouble. If You want to "prove" something and argue about it, go to the proper thread - this is NOT this thread and ppl are allowed to post their subjective experience and opinion.
> 
> My last 2c about this subject. I hope You won`t post about this subject here anymore, no hard feelings, just not needed.


 

 Yes, James is one hard headed dude and of course he is welcome to his opinion as we all have one like we all have something else
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thought he understood when CAD called him out already and he deleted only to come back a few post later! 
  
 James, we all have it in our DB's that you don't believe in burn-in so you should just ovoid entering into the subject regardless of your personal feelings science based or not, drivers are not mechanical to you but they do move and flex and therefore have the ability to change over time. People replace drivers and parts because they do wear out right? What I'm getting at is it is OK to have your opinion just don't use it to engage negatively with others who feel differently
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm thrilled you are enjoying your new black ED9's right out the box too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 OK, my $0.02 and meter time is up


----------



## pashhtk27

I have the older model then. RQ016N8M. Ports are there.
Edit: @jipan I bought them 2 months ago from hck. Try asking them if they have the older version in stock.

I was kinda adamant to accept this, but it's been haunting me since the day I received the ate. When I first heard them they were quite smooth, but the soundstage was huge and I could pick out details in my songs that I had never heard before. The vocals were clean and very clear, very lifelike. Put them on burn in with white/pink noise. And then they became more 'trebly' and the huge soundstage became a tad bit smaller but the unique details were all gone. And they haven't come back since.
The experience I had that day, I cannot forget....I am sure it wasn't a dream.....

Sometimes I wonder if burn in has something to do with the bass port....and the bass port with earwax, since a lot of earphones have the port built in the nozzle. *shrug*

Anyway, like I mentioned in the chinese iem thread, my edr2 have become a bit imbalanced. But luckily the difference is not much and can be countered by rolling tips........oh gawd.


----------



## jipan

Seems like you're more sensitive to treble than me. Maybe you will better of with the newer, non vented ATE, this version treble is really smooth and soft.
 I'm quite happy with mine though, it just that knowing that there are version which fit my taste a little better keep gnawing at me lol
  
 Quote:


pashhtk27 said:


> I have the older model then. RQ016N8M. Ports are there.
> Edit: @jipan I bought them 2 months ago from hck. Try asking them if they have the older version in stock.
> 
> I was kinda adamant to accept this, but it's been haunting me since the day I received the ate. When I first heard them they were quite smooth, but the soundstage was huge and I could pick out details in my songs that I had never heard before. The vocals were clean and very clear, very lifelike. Put them on burn in with white/pink noise. And then they became more 'trebly' and the huge soundstage became a tad bit smaller but the unique details were all gone. And they haven't come back since.
> ...


 
  
 Can anyone point me to KZ IEM's with the best separation, positioning and sound-stage (or head-stage, if you like this terms better)? Not to bright though, I'm kinda sensitive to treble.


----------



## B9Scrambler

jipan said:


> Can anyone point me to KZ IEM's with the best separation, positioning and sound-stage (or head-stage, if you like this terms better)? Not to bright though, I'm kinda sensitive to treble.




ZN1 Mini to the rescue. They do a good job of everything you mentioned and have pretty mellow, yet still fairly detailed treble. Plus they eq really well if you somehow find them bright.

DT5 might also be a good choice. They're surprisingly competent, not even the slightest bit bright, but very bassy. ZS1-like actually.


----------



## jipan

Awesome. Now let see if local vendors import them. Thank you sir, for the help. Hope those will satisfy my sound-stage and separation cravings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think separation is where ATE rather weak, but the male voice is to die for. Female voice are good, if not as good as male voice. Really love the 5k dips, smoothing all those painful female records. But then, this is $12 IEM's, so I'm not going to complain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


b9scrambler said:


> ZN1 Mini to the rescue. They do a good job of everything you mentioned and have pretty mellow, yet still fairly detailed treble. Plus they eq really well if you somehow find them bright.
> 
> DT5 might also be a good choice. They're surpringly competent, not even the slightest bit bright, but very bassy. ZS1-like actually.


----------



## Gussisaurio

pashhtk27 said:


> I have the older model then. RQ016N8M. Ports are there.
> Edit: @jipan I bought them 2 months ago from hck. Try asking them if they have the older version in stock.
> 
> I was kinda adamant to accept this, but it's been haunting me since the day I received the ate. When I first heard them they were quite smooth, but the soundstage was huge and I could pick out details in my songs that I had never heard before. The vocals were clean and very clear, very lifelike. Put them on burn in with white/pink noise. And then they became more 'trebly' and the huge soundstage became a tad bit smaller but the unique details were all gone. And they haven't come back since.
> ...


 
  
 Hi. It happened to me as well. My ATEs are RQ: 016N8M, vented ones. Out of the box I instantly wanted to buy a replacement, in case someday they would break. That good they sounded. I could hear new things on recordings I knew from memory for the past several years. However, after several hours use, they lost their magic. Not special anymore. I share your pain. Rest in peace my ATE's insanely great out of the box sound.


----------



## CoiL

gussisaurio said:


> pashhtk27 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the older model then. RQ016N8M. Ports are there.
> ...


 
 Guys, aren`t Your problem related to nozzle mesh grills getting jammed with earwax or dust? If You dare, remove them. Been using my ATE long time without grills and no issues with wax/dust getting into (I clean my ears regularly and keep IEM`s in case). But yeh, my ATE FF-mod has totally different nozzles anyway. Maybe this issue can be somehow from driver flex?
 I remember some days when I pushed ATE into ear and sound got little "dull" but after re-inserting it went away.


----------



## foba

http://www.head-fi.org/t/806634/kz-ed-special-edition-vs-ve-monk
  
 Anyone familiar with both Monks (or other cheap chinese earbud) and KZ - care to give your opinion. Yeah, obviously IEM and earbuds dont directly can be compared but there might be someone on the verge of buying either one as a portable listening gear and dont mind isolation capabilities. When I asked in Monk thread the reception was sour at least to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I am actually curious if there are people who find Monks better when comparing side-by-side.


----------



## Podster

foba said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/806634/kz-ed-special-edition-vs-ve-monk
> 
> Anyone familiar with both Monks (or other cheap chinese earbud) and KZ - care to give your opinion. Yeah, obviously IEM and earbuds dont directly can be compared but there might be someone on the verge of buying either one as a portable listening gear and dont mind isolation capabilities. When I asked in Monk thread the reception was sour at least to say
> 
> ...


 

 If isolation is not an issue for you go Monks, my choice if you go KZ iem would be the ED9 over the SE but then again that is really just my preference as I think the ED9 will be closer to the Monk than the SE. Not sure if I helped you at all but shopped out both could be had under $20 on AliEx


----------



## foba

I own 2 Monk+ and 5 original Monks so I am not asking purchase advice for myself, I am actually asking how many of you find Monks better sounding as in my opinion KZ EDSE are loads better. But thats just my opinion. Hope my ED9´s arrive soon 8)


----------



## James Freeman

So.... after a long period of listening my ears and the tips very moist (wax).
 What is you way of making this "problem" manageable?
  
 I take them off, clean my ear with a Q-tip when I'm at home, and the moist ear tip on my pants... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 There is some moisture inside the earphone tip also which a wipe with some un-wound (thin) Q-tip.


----------



## Podster

foba said:


> I own 2 Monk+ and 5 original Monks so I am not asking purchase advice for myself, I am actually asking how many of you find Monks better sounding as in my opinion KZ EDSE are loads better. But thats just my opinion. Hope my ED9´s arrive soon 8)


 

 Sorry I miss-understood your question before foba
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me they are a totally different listening experience in a non-isolating ear bud and a iem which seals. They are also used by me in very different settings, I may listen to my monks while in my office without really any kind of outside interference/noise and my iem's are for more noisy environments where I need seal.
  
 Now with that said I find both my Monks and my ED9's to sound excellent for their purposes. Don't so much think either is better than the other just a different listening experience. Probably still not much help!


----------



## Gussisaurio

coil said:


> Guys, aren`t Your problem related to nozzle mesh grills getting jammed with earwax or dust? If You dare, remove them. Been using my ATE long time without grills and no issues with wax/dust getting into (I clean my ears regularly and keep IEM`s in case). But yeh, my ATE FF-mod has totally different nozzles anyway. Maybe this issue can be somehow from driver flex?
> I remember some days when I pushed ATE into ear and sound got little "dull" but after re-inserting it went away.


 

 Now that you mention it. I just took a picture with my macro lens and this is what the grill looks like:
  

  
 I do not know if that is ear wax or glue residues from the factory, probably both. What do you think doctor?
 Do you think this is the culprit for the ATE's losing its mojo?
  
 I do not dare to remove the grill. What if the earwax falls directly into the diaphragm? 
 Do you think I can just puncture the grill with a very sharp needle to reopen the holes?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Wokei

gussisaurio said:


> Now that you mention it. I just took a picture with my macro lens and this is what the grill looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Me see no harm in removing the grill ....imho TIP ROLLING makes a big difference ...


----------



## James Freeman

After 200 hours of Wax-In you definitely gonna' lose some treble. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This wax starts as watery condensation in the outer ear canal from a special gland and solidifies, you should clean your ears and earphones as often as you can.
 By the way, I found that if you have something in the ear (like earphones ) more wax is produced to get rid of the foreign object.
 http://kidshealth.org/en/kids/earwax.html


----------



## Sylmar

I must say that I hardly have any earwax problems but I'm also using tri-flangles that sit deep in the ear. I love how these combine with the ATE and give a great seal (really getting that sub-bass), got used to them during my Etymotic use. They may not solve an earwax problem but it seems to me that the longer tip might keep the nozzle clean. Might be a thing to try out as these tips can be bought easily on AliExpress for a little price in all variations (I'm using the big ones like these


----------



## Pittas

sylmar said:


> I must say that I hardly have any earwax problems but I'm also using tri-flangles that sit deep in the ear. I love how these combine with the ATE and give a great seal (really getting that sub-bass), got used to them during my Etymotic use. They may not solve an earwax problem but it seems to me that the longer tip might keep the nozzle clean. Might be a thing to try out as these tips can be bought easily on AliExpress for a little price in all variations (I'm using the big ones like these





Would you mind linking the aliexpress store that sells them?


----------



## seanwee

james freeman said:


> After 200 hours of Wax-In you definitely gonna' lose some treble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I clean my ears 2-5 times a day


----------



## GokaiN

foba said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/806634/kz-ed-special-edition-vs-ve-monk
> 
> Anyone familiar with both Monks (or other cheap chinese earbud) and KZ - care to give your opinion. Yeah, obviously IEM and earbuds dont directly can be compared but there might be someone on the verge of buying either one as a portable listening gear and dont mind isolation capabilities. When I asked in Monk thread the reception was sour at least to say
> 
> ...


 
 I have both the KZ-ATE and the Monk and feel that I enjoy the Monk a lot more.  The KZ-ATE is a little too warm for my taste, while the Monk has such superb clarity and soundstage.  Ultimately, we're comparing apples to oranges since one is IEM and the other earbud, and I'm also biased towards earbuds, as I don't like the plugging feeling of pressure in my ear from an IEM.


----------



## audio123

gokain said:


> I have both the KZ-ATE and the Monk and feel that I enjoy the Monk a lot more.  The KZ-ATE is a little too warm for my taste, while the Monk has such superb clarity and soundstage.  Ultimately, we're comparing apples to oranges since one is IEM and the other earbud, and I'm also biased towards earbuds, as I don't like the plugging feeling of pressure in my ear from an IEM.


the sound of Monk is better than any Kz iems in my opinion


----------



## audio123

seanwee said:


> I clean my ears 2-5 times a day


hygience to ensure a smooth passage for sound to the receiver.


----------



## Sylmar

pittas said:


> Would you mind linking the aliexpress store that sells them?


 
 Sure. I didn't buy the ones that I posted, it was meant as an example for the kind of tips I meant. I did order these ones: 
  
 http://nl.aliexpress.com/store/product/Replacement-Earbuds-Ear-Tips-Set-For-Monster-Beats-UrBeats-HeartBeats-Lady-Gaga-Diddy-Beats-Turbine-Pro/1132091_32483579371.html
  
 They really fit my KZ Ate's very well, giving a great fit and seal:


----------



## pashhtk27

Guess you could be right. My eyesight ain't good enough to see wax on the nozzle, but then those pores are just too small. Must be loads in there. Cleaning eartips is a major pain. I'm a major slob.....
Though I do clean my ears with q-tips.....but then I do so for the pleasure!

Eyeing triple flanges for quite some time. Just a bit apprehensive is they'll fit me. My ears are too small


----------



## SilentCinema

james freeman said:


> After 200 hours of Wax-In you definitely gonna' lose some treble.
> 
> This wax starts as watery condensation in the outer ear canal from a special gland and solidifies, you should clean your ears and earphones as often as you can.
> By the way, I found that if you have something in the ear (like earphones ) more wax is produced to get rid of the foreign object.
> http://kidshealth.org/en/kids/earwax.html




Obviously you don't burn-in for hours in your ears, so you have no concept of the technique and clearly no experience of it, so really science is just separating you from the real life experience of the technique. But cool you stick to being statistical and theoretical theirs no harm in it I suppose.


----------



## CGrish

silentcinema said:


> Obviously you don't burn-in for hours in your ears, so you have no concept of the technique and clearly no experience of it, so really science is just separating you from the real life experience of the technique. But cool you stick to being statistical and theoretical theirs no harm in it I suppose.



He's talking about wax getting into the nozzle/filters, pay attention to the thread. chill out.


----------



## SilentCinema

cgrish said:


> He's talking about wax getting into the nozzle/filters, pay attention to the thread. chill out.




Yeh maybe i just read too much into his sarcasm of '200 hours wax-in'lol or maybe i didn't.


----------



## CGrish

Yeah lol, I guess we'll find out once he responds, not sure why he said "200 hours"


----------



## seanwee

Maybe he is burning in by using it?


----------



## SilentCinema

seanwee said:


> Maybe he is burning in by using it?




Yeh that's what i thought, which isn't really the correct way to burn in hence my rant along with Mr Freeman's burn-in posts, oh well who knows.


----------



## CoiL

gokain said:


> foba said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.head-fi.org/t/806634/kz-ed-special-edition-vs-ve-monk
> ...


 
 Monk > ATE (stock 2nd gen translucent black non-S version). In heavily modified configuration ATE is almost on Monk level but still loses little. 
  


gussisaurio said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, aren`t Your problem related to nozzle mesh grills getting jammed with earwax or dust? If You dare, remove them. Been using my ATE long time without grills and no issues with wax/dust getting into (I clean my ears regularly and keep IEM`s in case). But yeh, my ATE FF-mod has totally different nozzles anyway. Maybe this issue can be somehow from driver flex?
> ...


 
 ATE grills are very prone to wax collection imo. If You clean Your ears regularly, then there shouldn`t be any problems with wax falling onto diaphragm. Btw, ATE driver has shell around it with small port in middle... where to is quite hard to "fall some wax".


----------



## EISENbricher

KZ thread became Wax thread since some time. Desperately waiting for them to release something to chew on.


----------



## Wyrdrune

eisenbricher said:


> KZ thread became Wax thread since some time. Desperately waiting for them to release something to chew on.




Yep.

For reference, there IS an official ear wax thread for those who really, really, want to discuss ear wax:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/565579/the-official-head-fi-ear-wax-thread


----------



## Wyrdrune

foba said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/806634/kz-ed-special-edition-vs-ve-monk
> 
> Anyone familiar with both Monks (or other cheap chinese earbud) and KZ - care to give your opinion. Yeah, obviously IEM and earbuds dont directly can be compared but there might be someone on the verge of buying either one as a portable listening gear and dont mind isolation capabilities. When I asked in Monk thread the reception was sour at least to say  . I am actually curious if there are people who find Monks better when comparing side-by-side.




I own the Monks, ATE (original, non S variant), ED9 and ZN1 Mini.

I prefer the sound of the Monks with doughnut foams over the IEMs, for me the soundstage is much wider and the mids are sweeter. However, as previous posters have said, they have different uses. I use the Monks at home and when my office is quiet, but I reach for my ATE when I'm travelling, and the ZN1 when my office gets a little noisy, for the increased isolation.


----------



## James Freeman

silentcinema said:


> Obviously you don't burn-in for hours in your ears, so you havo ee no concept of the technique and clearly nxperience of it, so really science is just separating you from the real life experience of the technique. But cool you stick to being statistical and theoretical theirs no harm in it I suppose.


 
  
  


cgrish said:


> He's talking about wax getting into the nozzle/filters, pay attention to the thread. chill out.


 
  
  


silentcinema said:


> Yeh maybe i just read too much into his sarcasm of '200 hours wax-in'lol or maybe i didn't.


 
  
  


cgrish said:


> Yeah lol, I guess we'll find out once he responds, not sure why he said "200 hours"


 
  
  


seanwee said:


> Maybe he is burning in by using it?


 
  
  


silentcinema said:


> Yeh that's what i thought, which isn't really the correct way to burn in hence my rant along with Mr Freeman's burn-in posts, oh well who knows.


 
  
 Yes, I was being completely sarcastic.
 Let's just say that I'm a strong believer the "Burn-In without listening" has the same weight as "Audiophile Power Cord".
  
 "science is just separating you from the real life experience" is EXACTLY what I'm talking about but upside down.
*"Real life experience" depends on how much coca-cola you smoked today, while "Science" makes sure the measurement microphone is always sober...*
  
 In fact, I'm going to make that my signature


----------



## SilentCinema

james freeman said:


> Yes, I was being completely sarcastic.
> Let's just say that I'm a strong believer the "Burn-In without listening" has the same weight as "Audiophile Power Cord".
> 
> "science is just separating you from the real life experience" is EXACTLY what I'm talking about but upside down.
> ...




Haha yeh i know it's one of those back and forth ones, I'm curious does science detect instruments separation and clarity or just frequency response also has science been able to replicate the human ear exactly like for like in an artificial form. If so i would be grateful if you could direct me to those online articles evidencing this. I'm abit behind on science you see. (Sorry KZ thread this will be my last non related post)


----------



## CADCAM

james freeman said:


> After 200 hours of Wax-In you definitely gonna' lose some treble.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a little ritual that I clean my ear canals with a q-tip before listening, helps with the seal. I also remove my tips periodically and wash them in warm water with some dish soap, rinse the **** out of them and let them dry overnight in a paper towel. I also clean my ears after my shower each morning...if you use iem's you gotta keep those ears super clean.
  
 btw I also use a clean white cotton cloth and clean nozzles every now and then...amazing what you get off them!


----------



## Podster

james freeman said:


> Yes, I was being completely sarcastic.
> Let's just say that I'm a strong believer the "Burn-In without listening" has the same weight as "Audiophile Power Cord".
> 
> "science is just separating you from the real life experience" is EXACTLY what I'm talking about but upside down.
> ...


 

 You should because you are Ad-nauseum with your opinion of burn in. You have been asked nicely I might add several times out here to drop your aggressive and agnostic attitude towards what some people choose to believe in. We are all well aware of your thoughts on burn-in so quite wasting everyone's time looking for a challenge or company in your belief. So you don't believe in it great just let it go already!
  
 Now you know how I feel about you constant whining on the subject


----------



## James Freeman

Alright Podster you have the freedom to do and think what you please AND post it on an internet board, and so do I even if you are annoyed because it contradicts your subjective beliefs.
 I see practically all of you are advocating headphone burn-in, so it's clearly not the place for anything scientific in my honest and personal opinion without the intention to offend anyone.
  
 Okay, I will not go against the stream, have fun doing what you love.


----------



## Podster

james freeman said:


> Alright Podster you have the freedom to do and think what you please AND post it on an internet board, and so do I even if you are annoyed because it contradicts your subjective beliefs.
> I see practically all of you are advocating headphone burn-in, so it's clearly not the place for anything scientific in my honest and personal opinion without the intention to offend anyone.
> 
> Okay, I will not go against the stream, have fun doing what you love.


 

 I have nothing against your personal belief on burn in James, it just gets old out here fast. Reading it over and over or having it pop back up is annoying but as you said you can post it and I just need to ignore it and not let it bother me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No disrespect intended


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> You should because you are Ad-nauseum with your opinion of burn in. You have been asked nicely I might add several times out here to drop your aggressive and agnostic attitude towards what some people choose to believe in. We are all well aware of your thoughts on burn-in so quite wasting everyone's time looking for a challenge or company in your belief. So you don't believe in it great just let it go already!
> 
> Now you know how I feel about you constant whining on the subject


 
 You know I'm with you on this one Pod and if people can't hear the differences after burn-in or a better designed cable then so be it. Science will also tell you there's no God but I'm still going to church on Sunday! Let enjoy the music


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> You know I'm with you on this one Pod and if people can't hear the differences after burn-in or a better designed cable then so be it. Science will also tell you there's no God but I'm still going to church on Sunday! Let enjoy the music


 

 Science is good and all because for sure the Earth is warming and the evidence is clear but sometimes science does not translate to real world much like graphs don't translate to what each of us hear a lot. Even subjectivity is subjective
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like I said I meant no disrespect but wanting the useless banter to stop, I mean you only have to tell me one time you don't like something and I'm good with it


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Science is good and all because for sure the Earth is warming and the evidence is clear but sometimes science does not translate to real world much like graphs don't translate to what each of us hear a lot. Even subjectivity is subjective
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds good!
 Hey I switched up my KZ EDSE for the HDS1 for the gym so I'll get a good handle on how the HDS1 sounds out of my Sansa Clip and also get the opportunity to listen to them a lot more. I know they are super comfortable and hopefully they will get me through some grueling workouts that I've started doing. Nothing like great tunes to get you through a workout!


----------



## loomisjohnson

anyone interested in trading the ed9 for an almost new ate?


----------



## Ruben123

Got new ED9s.... in BLACK. Wow they look great. The cable is also much better than the silver ones I had, not so ***** sticky. The box is also new (shield instead of rectangular box) AND I got 3 types of tips - of all sizes 2 tips! Until now I have had many wrong tips, like 3 big and 1 small tip. Annoying. The sound still is phenomenal for the price.
  
 First thing I did without even listening is putting the filters flat in the brass nozzles. They can really mess up the sound in a bad way.
  
 Im going to put those ED9s to a test with the Monoprice 8320s.... which is the best budget neutral earphone?


----------



## CADCAM

ruben123 said:


> Got new ED9s.... in BLACK. Wow they look great. The cable is also much better than the silver ones I had, not so ***** sticky. The box is also new (shield instead of rectangular box) AND I got 3 types of tips - of all sizes 2 tips! Until now I have had many wrong tips, like 3 big and 1 small tip. Annoying. The sound still is phenomenal for the price.
> 
> First thing I did without even listening is putting the filters flat in the brass nozzles. They can really mess up the sound in a bad way.
> 
> Im going to put those ED9s to a test with the Monoprice 8320s.... which is the best budget neutral earphone?


----------



## pashhtk27

@Freeman I would really like to discuss about burn in, but I think this is not the appropriate place. Can you guide me to a 'burn-in' thread where we can discuss the topic?


----------



## Ruben123

pashhtk27 said:


> @Freeman I would really like to discuss about burn in, but I think this is not the appropriate place. Can you guide me to a 'burn-in' thread where we can discuss the topic?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/532844/headphone-burn-in


----------



## pashhtk27

ruben123 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/532844/headphone-burn-in




Thanks. I'll read up the thread later.


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Got new ED9s.... in BLACK. Wow they look great. The cable is also much better than the silver ones I had, not so ***** sticky. The box is also new (shield instead of rectangular box) AND I got 3 types of tips - of all sizes 2 tips! Until now I have had many wrong tips, like 3 big and 1 small tip. Annoying. The sound still is phenomenal for the price.
> 
> First thing I did without even listening is putting the filters flat in the brass nozzles. They can really mess up the sound in a bad way.
> 
> Im going to put those ED9s to a test with the Monoprice 8320s.... which is the best budget neutral earphone?


 

 Look like these ugly old things eh


----------



## CADCAM

podster said:


> Look like these ugly old things eh


 
 Did you put him up to this?


----------



## Podster

cadcam said:


> Did you put him up to this?


 

 I plead the 5th but like honest Abe I cannot tell a lie, posted this just for you bud
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 By the way, they just came off a photo shoot at Formula 1


----------



## James Freeman

No you don't have enough black ED9s...


----------



## Podster

james freeman said:


> No you don't have enough black ED9s...


 

 Does anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This just in, ED9 is the Official Pace IEM for the 2016 Formula 1


----------



## Wyrdrune

ruben123 said:


> Got new ED9s.... in BLACK.
> [snip]
> The box is also new (shield instead of rectangular box) AND I got 3 types of tips - of all sizes 2 tips!




The above was also true for the Silver version I bought a few weeks ago, shield case and extra tips.


----------



## FHSWarrior

Looking to spend the final dollars on this visa goft card. Whats the consensus best kz iem?


----------



## B9Scrambler

fhswarrior said:


> Looking to spend the final dollars on this visa goft card. Whats the consensus best kz iem?


 
  
 ED9, EDR2, ATE, ZN1 Mini, HDS1....lots of good ones, just depends on your sound signature preference


----------



## FHSWarrior

Hmm well i did just order Zerio audio carbo tenore for the vocals, but maybe something closest to a balanced sound


----------



## FHSWarrior

Actually, can you also recommend the one with the strongest bass?


----------



## Wyrdrune

fhswarrior said:


> Hmm well i did just order Zerio audio carbo tenore for the vocals, but maybe something closest to a balanced sound




The ED9s are quite balanced so long as you avoid using the Bass nozzle. However they have almost no isolation so are only really suitable for home use.


----------



## B9Scrambler

fhswarrior said:


> Actually, can you also recommend the one with the strongest bass?


 
  
 Most balanced; ED9 (brass filters), EDR2, or HDS1.
  
 Strongest bass; ZS1, DT5, or ED8.


----------



## FHSWarrior

Im looking at the minis
Can you someone give me a brief description of what dual drivers do? Excuse me not much audio expert lol


----------



## 1clearhead

podster said:


> Does anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You should get that "Patent" before someone takes your idea!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


b9scrambler said:


> ED9, EDR2, ATE, ZN1 Mini, HDS1....lots of good ones, *just depends on your sound signature preference*


 
 +1 So true! .....We're all hearing the same thing, but might prefer different sound signatures over others. Cheers!


----------



## Ruben123

wyrdrune said:


> The ED9s are quite balanced so long as you avoid using the Bass nozzle. However they have almost no isolation so are only really suitable for home use.


 

 They dont isolate that bad I think, which doesnt mean you should use it on the go per se but Ive done it quite often and when there is not too much noise it is quite good


----------



## Wyrdrune

ruben123 said:


> They dont isolate that bad I think, which doesnt mean you should use it on the go per se but Ive done it quite often and when there is not too much noise it is quite good


 
  
 Well, it depends on where you are walking. If you're in the country-side, on a calm day, sure I can see them working for you but they're not a good match for an urban area.
  
 I went for a walk in them yesterday and theywere unusable whenever the wind hit me or whenever traffic passed me. The cable microphonics are also pretty extreme which makes them even more unsuitable for mobile use. 
  
 In my office, they're fine - on the go, not so much.


----------



## TwoPalms

fhswarrior said:


> Hmm well i did just order Zerio audio carbo tenore for the vocals, but maybe something closest to a balanced sound



Carbo tenore sounds like KZ HDS1. Balanced sound.


----------



## FHSWarrior

Ended up going with the ATE. Now the 15-25 day wait begins!


----------



## Ruben123

So little test again, HDS1 vs ED9 vs Monoprice 8320 with small bore tips with Mozart 35th Symphony.
  
 HDS1 loses too much detail in the treble, sounds a bit overly bassy but still very good. Very comfortable/
 ED9 brass sounds too a bit bassy, but sure with nicer mids and treble. Doesnt sound very "true" like, but sure involving.
 MP8320 sounds the very most balanced and treble has much more detail than the others. Mids too have more detail and the sound is less congested. I find HDS1 sound a bit congested, ED9 a bit less but MP8320 sound almost like earbuds/headphones. Relaxing wide sound stage. Bass is quite some less than ED9's too, of a lesser quantity and quality (more like a one note bass on the lower end of the spectrum).Well not that the quality isnt that good: I prefer it to the ED9's, but the ED9 sounds excellent at how it sounds (being great at a bit bassier than neutral IEM) and the MP is actually much more true sounding, though the lowest notes can sound the same. Can, because of the roll off. ED9s certainly got my attention again!!! Very fun to listen to.


----------



## Wyrdrune

fhswarrior said:


> Ended up going with the ATE. Now the 15-25 day wait begins!




Or more  I have been known to buy new phones because I've forgotten I already have some en route


----------



## xypex982

So my beloved pair of ZS1s are dying (cable has to be fiddled with by the aux plug to get full audio) and I was thinking of going wireless for my next pair.

Have any ZS1 owners ever used the Moxpad X90? How do they compare? There is only one review of the x90s.


----------



## Sylmar

Just got my ED9's (silver). I really appreciate these, wish I had gotten them sooner.


----------



## crabdog

sylmar said:


> Just got my ED9's (silver). I really appreciate these, wish I had gotten them sooner.


 
 They are pretty sweet. Mind don't get used often but I always appreciate them when I do.


----------



## willy156

kz ate s hypee can't wait to receive mine. for those who have ordered and tracked often, as soon as the tracking updates to showing your local post office status should you expect it to arrive soon? Mine still only shows royal mail since april 29th


----------



## kaiteck

willy156 said:


> kz ate s hypee can't wait to receive mine. for those who have ordered and tracked often, as soon as the tracking updates to showing your local post office status should you expect it to arrive soon? Mine still only shows royal mail since april 29th


 
 I'll worry only if it didnt arrive within one month


----------



## Zeebit

Has anyone tried to recable the ED9? I bought one for my friend a while back and one side is now intermittent. It doesn't look easy to take apart.


----------



## jipan

Can I share my KZ ATE picture here?


----------



## Wokei

jipan said:


> Can I share my KZ ATE picture here?


 
  
 No ...but here is my EDSE ....just jokin' ----please do so ..muahahahahahahahahaaaaa


----------



## jipan

Here you go. I love it! Definitely better than my old M6
  



  
 The case is pretty to look at


----------



## Mellowship

wokei said:


> No ...but here is my EDSE ....just jokin' ----please do so ..muahahahahahahahahaaaaa


 
 Talkin' bout EDSEs, just got mine the other day and been using them a lot. I really like them better than the EDR2, which I think they are more "flat" than "neutral"...


----------



## Sylmar

jipan said:


> Here you go. I love it! Definitely better than my old M6
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm still amazed how they could make it look so good at such a small price. I really like the sound as well for the price once you tame the bass.


----------



## Wokei

mellowship said:


> Talkin' bout EDSEs, just got mine the other day and been using them a lot. I really like them better than the EDR2, which I think they are more "flat" than "neutral"...


 
  
 Its one of my fav among the many KZ in my stable ....dont have EDR2 but its all good ..just a matter of preference ...woot woot 
  
 LET THE MUSIC PLAY ....


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


> No ...but here is my EDSE ....just jokin' ----please do so ..muahahahahahahahahaaaaa




Great shot Love the sepia tint

Love the purple jpan


----------



## Wokei

Anybody remember in the early days of KZ ..where you would get a one ¥ dollar note with their KZ purchases ?


----------



## Wyrdrune

sylmar said:


> I'm still amazed how they could make it look so good at such a small price. I really like the sound as well for the price once you tame the bass.




Any recommendations for taming them? Or do you just EQ, or break the seal?


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> Anybody remember in the early days of KZ ..where you would get a one ¥ dollar note with their KZ purchases ?


 
  
 That's cool! I joined the KZ train after that ended. Since everyone is posting pictures, my turn! Mine aren't as fancy though


----------



## Wokei

C'mon @B9Scrambler ..u* IS* one of the* Elder* here ....me see some old boys there ..aaaaah R3 and LP2 or LPS with added pad under the headband ....nicely done !
  
 Here is my LPS


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Wokei I came in when the EDse was king, taking on the Piston 2.0 head-to-head. That and the Micro Ring were my first KZs, both of which are still going strong.
  
 That is an LP2 indeed. Added the extra padding for when I use them without a hat on. Much more comfy


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> That's cool! I joined the KZ train after that ended. Since everyone is posting pictures, my turn! Mine aren't as fancy though


 

 Surely you jest B9, those are awesome shots
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those are some shiny tips on those DT5's


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Surely you jest B9, those are awesome shots
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks man! Those are the coreless foams tips that came with the JVC HA-FX40. Despite the DT5 already being super warm and bassy, those foamies actually work pretty well with them.


----------



## Wokei

podster said:


> Surely you jest B9, those are awesome shots
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome shots ....just take the compliments buddy ..muahahaaaaa
  
@B9Scrambler .....me do agree with Senor @Podster


----------



## jipan

podster said:


> Love the purple jipan



I was going for half blue half red but got purple instead lol




wokei said:


> Anybody remember in the early days of KZ ..where you would get a one ¥ dollar note with their KZ purchases ?




Wait, really?! 



b9scrambler said:


> That's cool! I joined the KZ train after that ended. Since everyone is posting pictures, my turn! Mine aren't as fancy though



That's cool picture sir!
I'm not going to try to emulate this kind of clean picture since I'm a slob


----------



## Wokei

Best shot of the day ....goes to @jipan   ----- *BAGUS SEKALI*


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


> Awesome shots ....just take the compliments buddy ..muahahaaaaa
> 
> @B9Scrambler .....me do agree with Senor @Podster


 

 Guess I was too late to get the notes with my KZ's but if you have a couple crispy ones just drop them in the mail


----------



## Wokei

podster said:


> Guess I was too late to get the notes with my KZ's but if you have a couple crispy ones just drop them in the mail


 
  
 Get @Charliemotta to send them to you.....we both got a few .....kekekeeeeeeeeeee
  
 Me version of Arthur Brown shot of KZ LP2


----------



## jipan

Thanks! Hehehehe... 
Wait! How did you know I'm Indonesian? Are you Indonesian too?


wokei said:


> Best shot of the day ....goes to @jipan
> ----- *BAGUS SEKALI*


----------



## Wokei

jipan said:


> Thanks! Hehehehe...
> Wait! How did you know I'm Indonesian? Are you Indonesian too?


 
  
 hahaaaa..its shown on the right side under your post count .....kekekeeeeeeee
  
 Ima Malaysian...


----------



## Charliemotta

wokei said:


> podster said:
> 
> 
> > Guess I was too late to get the notes with my KZ's but if you have a couple crispy ones just drop them in the mail
> ...




 Here you go Wokei...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2XpTJWhtgY


----------



## B9Scrambler

One more, this time of a great KZ that gets little to no attention 'round here.


----------



## Sylmar

wyrdrune said:


> Any recommendations for taming them? Or do you just EQ, or break the seal?


 
 What worked very well for me personally is a little EQ-ing (decreasing bass and midbass just by a few notches), third party tips (Etymotic style with wider bore) and a source that just fits the ATE's right (in my case a secondhand Rockboxed iRiver H10). In my view it's the experimenting that makes it fun.


----------



## Mellowship

Since you people are posting pics of your KZs, I'll leave two of my favourite. 

  

 The EDse and the ATE with the handsome FiiO X3II


----------



## pashhtk27

I ordered a few more kz, cheers!
Will have to wait for a month for them to arrive though. xD


----------



## jipan

Oh right, didn't notice it before hehehe... 


wokei said:


> hahaaaa..its shown on the right side under your post count .....kekekeeeeeeee
> 
> Ima Malaysian...




I actually been searching for review of this one before but got nothing useful. Would you give some review or impressions? Several vendors sell this one here on my country. 


b9scrambler said:


> One more, this time of a great KZ that gets little to no attention 'round here.


----------



## B9Scrambler

jipan said:


> I actually been searching for review of this one before but got nothing useful. Would you give some review or impressions? Several vendors sell this one here on my country.


 
  
 Let me sum it up like this:
  
 Take one part *ZS1 *(original with brass ring in nozzle) *bass*, one part *ED9 *(Gold filter) *treble*, add a dash of *EDse mids*, and place it inside a hefty housing that brazenly advertises you're using a KZ. I would say they're almost as capable as the ED9 on a technical level, but with a larger soundstage. If the housing wasn't so absurd, I'm sure the ED8 would garner more attention around here. They're a large, heavy beast with a similarly massive, fun sound signature to match. Underrated for sure, in my humble opinion. *bow*


----------



## myliferockkss

no one likes ed10 here ? O_o


----------



## B9Scrambler

myliferockkss said:


> no one likes ed10 here ? O_o


 
  
 I definitely do. Probably one of my top 5 KZs.


----------



## Sylmar

b9scrambler said:


> Let me sum it up like this:
> 
> Take one part *ZS1 *(original with brass ring in nozzle) *bass*, one part *ED9 *(Gold filter) *treble*, add a dash of *EDse mids*, and place it inside a hefty housing that brazenly advertises you're using a KZ. I would say they're almost as capable as the ED9 on a technical level, but with a larger soundstage. If the housing wasn't so absurd, I'm sure the ED8 would garner more attention around here. They're a large, heavy beast with a similarly massive, fun sound signature to match. Underrated for sure, in my humble opinion. *bow*


 
 Bought one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Great pics of the KZ's all!


----------



## myliferockkss

OMG! that's you http://b9scrambler.blogspot.in/2015/08/kz-shootout.html
 I ordered ed10 yesterday after my friend recommended it and also by going through your blog  thanks for that awesome shootout bud


----------



## B9Scrambler

myliferockkss said:


> OMG! that's you http://b9scrambler.blogspot.in/2015/08/kz-shootout.html
> I ordered ed10 yesterday after my friend recommended it and also by going through your blog  thanks for that awesome shootout bud




Haha, yup, that's my old blog. Working on a new one through WordPress at the moment. Blogger is too much of a pain when trying to add pics. 

New KZ shootout is in the works. Going to take a while though since twice as many KZs will be covered.


----------



## myliferockkss

b9scrambler said:


> Haha, yup, that's my old blog. Working on a new on through WordPress at the moment. Blogger is too much of a pain when trying to add pics.
> 
> New KZ shootout is in the works. Going to take a while though since twice as many KZs will be covered.


 
 Awesome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will be waiting for that shootout before I order any other KZs


----------



## Dapalm

So I just discovered this brand today and looks really promising. Was searching through their store on Aliexpress and found like 10 different models from under 10$. My question is, which one should I choose for hearing rock and metal?

So far I prefer the ED Special Edition, but just by how it looks. Anyone is able to help? Thanks!


----------



## Pittas

Imho ed9 and you can't go wrong for rock/metal


----------



## Podster

+1


----------



## Dapalm

pittas said:


> Imho ed9 and you can't go wrong for rock/metal







podster said:


> +1




Thanks guys, ED9 then! (Or maybe both lol)


----------



## GrinningBear

These ED9 are legit. They sound fantastic, you can see and feel how sturdily built they are, and I didn't have any issues with any devices powering them.

Shame when the left channel completely failed within days. They also hurt my ears regardless of the tip, and the case is rather useless for running errands, though it would work for travel.

Having said that, I cannot point to a single pair of budget earphones--and I have a ton of the usual suspects--that beat these in sound quality. They even held their own against my Sony XBA-H1's in clarity.

Seller is insisting on a refund, but I'd rather they save me the time and replace them.


----------



## seanwee

grinningbear said:


> These ED9 are legit. They sound fantastic, you can see and feel how sturdily built they are, and I didn't have any issues with any devices powering them.
> 
> Shame when the left channel completely failed within days. They also hurt my ears regardless of the tip, and the case is rather useless for running errands, though it would work for travel.
> 
> ...


 
 But those are quite bad if you are looking for clarity.


----------



## loomisjohnson

even as my obsession has shifted towards chinese-made hybrids,  i still keep reaching for is the hds3, which seems to get scant attention here. technically speaking, the treble can be a bit grainy, and it doesn't have the transparency and naturalness of pricier iems, but it's an exciting listen--there's an exciting, forward quality to these; bass is enormous and it has that indefinable prat. i like the tiny form factor, too--there "tuneable" in the sense that you can change the quantity of bass and soundstage size by adjusting their position in your ear.
 happy mothers day, mothers!!!


----------



## GrinningBear

seanwee said:


> But those are quite bad if you are looking for clarity.




The Sony's certainly not tremendous, especially for the price, but I'm not sure I'd call them outright bad. Anyone on this thread obviously knows how to get their money's worth, but I just thought I'd throw a more mainstream comparison out there. Most hybrids are relatively clear, but the $12 ED9's outpace the ~100 dollar balanced armature, with an easily noticeable edge in bass, as well.

We know better than to rely on price, though. Of all the outstanding budget earphones and IEM's I have, these stand out.

EDIT: When they work. Hoping these were just a bad pair.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson Funny you should mention the HDS3. I brought mine today to give them yet another chance, haha. They were accompanied by;



and


----------



## willy156

jesus christ just got these in and they sound amazing. will put up some impressions when I'm done dinner
  
 edit:
  
 Brief intro: I've been using Vsonic's VSD3S from July 2014 till recently when one of the cable's stopped working. I live in Canada so I'll be using Canadian dollars (Rip). The VSD3s costed me $60 shipped from Penonaudio. The KZ Ate-S costed me ~$19 shipped, but that's because I opted for the Insurance + Tracking (Which was pretty useless because I would forget and only tracked maybe 3 times). The KZ's were bought from Gearbest and it took roughly 8 business days so it actually exceeded estimated shipping time. 
  
 I'm not that big into earphones but I do like to invest some time into the best bang for my buck when I purchase IEMS. So I'll try to compare these to my $60 Vsd3s but isn't entirely directly compared because my Vsd3s only have sound on one side. 
 So please excuse my noobiness when I try to review these.
*Sound*: For $15 these sound spectacular, I've been going through my songs on my phone and they sound great. I feel like these are V shaped, with a little bit laid back, as I find myself having to increase my phone's volume click 1 higher than my VSD3s. What surprised me was the bass, it's good and reaches very low frequencies. 
*Isolation: *These isolate pretty dam well, but that's maybe because they come with foam tips. I find these isolate a lot better than my vsd3s did because I no longer hear myself typing on the keyboard as I write this mini review. 
*Build Quality:* Now for $15 I am a little skeptical because these earphones feel a bit thin for my likes, as the cable is fairly thin. I'm also not a big fan of the memory wire on the earphones because I find it makes the earphones a little hard to put on and wrap around in my small carrying case. I would've preferred vsd3s approach, which was no memory wire but includes a chin slider so the earphones won't flop around. 
*Ergonomics:* These fit great on my ears, although the driver's housing is a bit big so I can't sleep on the side of my face without having to feel the earphone pushing inside my ear. I really do appreciate the L shaped plug, this is what I've been looking for in IEMS because I believe my vsd3s' cable stopped working due to my jean's pocket too shallow so whenever I sit the cable would get crushed. This L shaped jack alleviates this problem.
*Overall: *Definitely worth the pick up, an easy recommendation for those who are new to the hobby or just have $15 to throw around. 9/10


----------



## CoiL

ATE-S is somewhat bassy and "muddy" sounding according to some impressions. First thing to do is use wide bore silicone tips instead foams. 2nd gen  ATE is said to be best out of the ATE bunch and can be had for ~9$ @ AE, though, with all the revisions and changes with ATE, I`m not even sure what version one may get


----------



## vapman

coil said:


> ATE-S is somewhat bassy and "muddy" sounding according to some impressions. First thing to do is use wide bore silicone tips instead foams. 2nd gen  ATE is said to be best out of the ATE bunch and can be had for ~9$ @ AE, though, with all the revisions and changes with ATE, I`m not even sure what version one may get


 

 What do you think of your recabled ATE vs ATE with the stock cable?
  
 I may recable one of my ATE, still undecided.


----------



## CoiL

Idk how much changing cable contributes to FF-mod sound improvement but I remember stock cable having little higher impedance. I recommend to get better (lower impedance) cable.


coil said:


> Another interesting observation. I had multimeter out for some electronics tinkering and thought I measure
> KZ IEM impedances too. Here they are:
> 
> * ATE
> ...


 
 Just measured again my ATE FF-mod impedance and it is:
 L - 19.3 Ohm, R - 19.3 Ohm, L>R (left through right driver) 36.2
  
 I have changed FF-mod cable 2 times for now... I just broke my "IE800" cable memory wire version from the jack little while ago and now using black Yinjw cable. 
 Btw, if changing cable, then measuring channels impedance is a must-do imo, because it detects bad soldering which may cause slight channel imbalance and decreased sq. 0.1 difference is ok though.


----------



## chavez

Geezus,after getting the VE Monk+ my EDSE/ED2 sound so muddy,what the hell :O .


----------



## B9Scrambler

Monks are good


----------



## teston

I must say that I enjoy the EDR2 as much as the monk/monk+. Very good clarity, soundstage especially for $5. The mid is a little recess and dry but detailed.
You can't go wrong with this guy.


----------



## foba

teston said:


> I must say that I enjoy the EDR2 as much as the monk/monk+. Very good clarity, soundstage especially for $5. The mid is a little recess and dry but detailed.
> You can't go wrong with this guy.


 
  
 For my ears EDSE/ED2(?) is better than EDR2 and Monk/Monk+.


----------



## B9Scrambler

teston said:


> I must say that I enjoy the EDR2 as much as the monk/monk+. Very good clarity, soundstage especially for $5. The mid is a little recess and dry but detailed.
> You can't go wrong with this guy.




I'm with you. Said it before earlier in the thread, but I put the EDR2 right up there with the Monk as best bang for your buck. Two very different, well done signatures.


----------



## teston

It looks quite synergy with the KZ foams. The look and sound.

I haven't tried the EDSE yet but can't deny that KZ series do sounds good.  
I may go and try it at the local retailer store.


----------



## Podster

seanwee said:


> But those are quite bad if you are looking for clarity.




Well I have to disagree Sean, with big bore Auvio tips on the brass filtet I get lot's of detail, what I live the best with this configure is I get that solid bass/misbass with all the detail I need(obviously the "I need" is subjective) but setup right the ED9 is flat out incredible for even $14.99 IMHO


----------



## seanwee

podster said:


> Well I have to disagree Sean, with big bore Auvio tips on the brass filtet I get lot's of detail, what I live the best with this configure is I get that solid bass/misbass with all the detail I need(obviously the "I need" is subjective) but setup right the *ED9* is flat out incredible for even $14.99 IMHO


 
 Woah,I was referring to the XBA-H1, not the ED9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> Monks are good


 
 NUN`s are "better" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 2nd edition will be corrected and improved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs/27435#post_12576779
  
 Sorry for OT KZ guys... I have lost interest in modding KZ`s and moved into "bigger" area. And still no KZ to beat my WOM-mod. 
 Probably will just become observer of this thread. Been nice journey with You all


----------



## duo8

A decent combination


----------



## Ruben123

duo8 said:


> A decent combination


 
 Nice to see. Only a few days ago an image of some KZs with the Galaxy i9000 was posted too: exactly how I listen to them most of the time. Out of my Sansas or Galaxy voodoo phone. Budget audiophile combination.


----------



## Sylmar

Is it just me or do the KZ ED9 with gold filters foams removed sound much better than the standard gold or copper filters? Prefer them like this to my A&D D2's in fact.
  
 Looking forward to receiving my ED8's and ED10's so I can compare.


----------



## crabdog

sylmar said:


> Is it just me or do the KZ ED9 with gold filters foams removed sound much better than the standard gold or copper filters? Prefer them like this to my A&D D2's in fact.
> 
> Looking forward to receiving my ED8's and ED10's so I can compare.


 
 Never tried without foams but for me - gold filters all day.


----------



## Dally Sidhu

What are the best KZ's for heavy dirty digusting cum everywhere bass? (That do not need an amp to use)


----------



## Podster

dally sidhu said:


> What are the best KZ's for heavy dirty digusting cum everywhere bass? (That do not need an amp to use)


 

 ZS1
  
 Look like these but have an "S" instead of an "N" on them


----------



## loomisjohnson

if anyone is interested in trading for some ates, please pm me--they're worthy of the hype, but i'd prefer something without the around-the-ear fit.


----------



## Dally Sidhu

Ive looked around people are saying zn1's are better?


podster said:


> ZS1


----------



## Podster

dally sidhu said:


> Ive looked around people are saying zn1's are better?


 

 Matter of opinion but the ZS1 is truly a bass monster
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too much for my liking and why I too prefer the ZN1 Mini (not to be confused with the original with bass/EQ amp built into the cable)!
  
 That last shot was of my ZN1 Mini, this is a couple shots of the amped version
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Strapped to a FiiO M3:

  
  
 Oh, here's a shot with ZS1
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Come to stink of it the ZS1 cable looks nothing like the ZN1 cable


----------



## Dally Sidhu

podster said:


> Matter of opinion but the ZS1 is truly a bass monster
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ah thanks for your help man, any chance you could personal message me a safe link to buy from? How much are those amp versions?


----------



## Danilo Jose

i have personally tested the kz edr2 , my first impression were that this in-ear earphones were to good to be true but that was not true the sound was actually pretty good excellent by that price point , if you are looking for a cheap but really good earphones this must be your first option


----------



## CADCAM

dally sidhu said:


> What are the best KZ's for heavy dirty digusting cum everywhere bass? (That do not need an amp to use)


 
 Why does the human race seem to gravitate to the least common denominator?


----------



## notamethlab

Hey could some one link me to the official KZ store on AliExpress? There seems to be a few using KZ as their name.


----------



## Nafis

http://s.aliexpress.com/3iUfE3iq


----------



## SSSN

What are the most neutral KZ IEMs?


----------



## vapman

sssn said:


> What are the most neutral KZ IEMs?


 

 someone who has heard more than  4 types of KZ can chime in but i think it is the ATE.


----------



## CoiL

ATE is rather n*A*tural in stock configuration not neutral. Most n*E*utral - ANV (almost dead-flat but lacking littlebit in sub-bass extension and presence) and EDR2 (without foam pieces in nozzle, has littlebit warm-tilt sound), JMHSO.


----------



## bartzky

I found the ATE to have far more bass than neutral, even more than what I think is natural. Anyway they have brilliant isolation and are very good looking (especially considering their low price) - good enough for me to take some photos


----------



## Wyrdrune

vapman said:


> someone who has heard more than  4 types of KZ can chime in but i think it is the ATE.




ATE (original, not S) have far too much bass to be described as neutral.
I have only owned the ATE, ZN1 Mini and ED9, but I'd choose the ED9 over the ATE for neutrality.


----------



## crabdog

@bartzky stunning photos!


----------



## bartzky

Thank you crabdog!

Btw: German-speaking Head-fiers can find my full review of the ATE at: http://headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-ate/


----------



## CoiL

bartzky said:


> I found the ATE to have far more bass than neutral, even more than what I think is natural. Anyway they have brilliant isolation...


 
 Firstly, I wouldn`t say they have brilliant isolation - over average but not excellent (even with perfect fit). And secondly, some questions about Your ATE:
 1) Does Your ATE have breathing holes in plastic body near the lower end of nozzle?
     If Your unit doesn`t have them, then it is 3rd edition ATE (non-S) and with closed port holes they are bassier than 2nd edition.
 2) Is Your judgement based on using them with foam tips?
     Foam tips make them "muffled" and bassy sounding. Try large bore silicone tips that go on level with nozzle edge.
  
 ATE is kind of mixed bag - it has at least 4 iterations and some even say that same looking ones sound littlebit different... so... hard to judge "animal" this ATE is.
 I got lucky and got early 2nd generation translucent black ATE with port holes - sounds very natural and in modified configuration I consider it even towards neutral-sounding not only natural. 
  


wyrdrune said:


> ...but I'd choose the ED9 over the ATE for neutrality.


 
 Agree, with brass nozzles and little foam mod - they are pretty neutral sounding. Actually, if we are talking only about neutrality of sound, then I would put ED9 (brass nozzles with little foam mod) even behind ANV and front of EDR2 (due to being littlebit warmish). Also, my ED10 is pretty neutral sounding but I can`t say it out loud because many consider them bass-boosted (which my unit certainly is NOT) and there can be production differences.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I own two of the silver launch ATEs and I would describe them as natural sounding with a boost to the mids and rolled off bass and treble. They just barely seem to dip their toes into subbass regions. I find the ATE to be very relaxing sounding. Big soundstage, okay detail and clarity, good separation, quick bass, overall just a solid performer. Definitely one of my favs.


----------



## bartzky

coil said:


> Firstly, I wouldn`t say they have brilliant isolation - over average but not excellent (even with perfect fit). And secondly, some questions about Your ATE:
> 1) Does Your ATE have breathing holes in plastic body near the lower end of nozzle?
> If Your unit doesn`t have them, then it is 3rd edition ATE (non-S) and with closed port holes they are bassier than 2nd edition.
> 2) Is Your judgement based on using them with foam tips?
> ...



I compared the isolation to the Shure SE215 and the StageDiver 2 and find the KZ to be more or less on par with the Shure and slighly weaker than the StageDiver, which I think is brillant.

1) It doesn't have any breathing holes. So this explaines why I hear so much bass! I didn't knew that there are different versions.

2) I use the silicon tips. I don't like foams at all and never tried them with the KZ.


----------



## peter123

bartzky said:


> I compared the isolation to the Shure SE215 and the StageDiver 2 and find the KZ to be more or less on par with the Shure and slighly weaker than the StageDiver, which I think is brillant.
> 
> 1) It doesn't have any breathing holes. So this explaines why I hear so much bass! I didn't knew that there are different versions.
> 
> 2) I use the silicon tips. I don't like foams at all and never tried them with the KZ.




I think that ear anatomy is very important when it comes to isolation with IEM's that are not straight barrel design. I also find the ATE (and the IM70 that uses the same shell design) to isolate pretty poorly and definitely much worse than the SE215 for me. Ymmw would certainly be in place here


----------



## Podster

peter123 said:


> I think that ear anatomy is very important when it comes to isolation with IEM's that are not straight barrel design. I also find the ATE (and the IM70 that uses the same shell design) to isolate pretty poorly and definitely much worse than the SE215 for me. Ymmw would certainly be in place here


 

 Exactly, I had this fitment problem with the first Easy UE's but not with my HCK UE! They do have a very diffent shell shape and if they don't fit your anatomy may as well just let that one go


----------



## 1clearhead

peter123 said:


> I think that ear anatomy is very important when it comes to isolation with IEM's that are not straight barrel design. I also find the ATE (and the IM70 that uses the same shell design) to isolate pretty poorly and definitely much worse than the SE215 for me. Ymmw would certainly be in place here



 
+1 ....true! I do have a hard time choosing the right tips for that perfect isolation with my ATE.


----------



## Sylmar

1clearhead said:


> peter123 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that ear anatomy is very important when it comes to isolation with IEM's that are not straight barrel design. I also find the ATE (and the IM70 that uses the same shell design) to isolate pretty poorly and definitely much worse than the SE215 for me. Ymmw would certainly be in place here
> ...


 
 Etymotic style tips work perfectly for me in combination with ATE. Then again I might have weird ear anatomy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also use them on my ED9's.


----------



## dotter

What KZ headphones can you recommend me for listening music like Nightwish, Withing Temptation etc. I need headphones, where nearby people can't hear music I listening.


----------



## pashhtk27

Received some kz earphones today! Ed3 youth, Hds1, and zs2.

I have a problem with the hds1. They were easy to insert and went all the way in but when I was done, pulling them out was a nightmare. I had to yank them out from the part where wire meets the housing. Not a very safe way to do so. The right tip got stuck in my ear and had to use tweezers. I have some experience with eartips getting stuck in my ear with the vsonic vc02, but still.....And the sound is very fit dependent.....I don't think I can ever use this earphone. Was expecting a lot, just not this. :')

Hds3 have a small depression at the end of the housing which allows for easy removal of the earphones. Guess they did get some feedback on this problem.

Will have to roll tips on the zs2 and ed3y. And get used to the horrible memory wire. And yes, zs2 doesn't seem to the monster bass of that owners of zs2 mentioned ootb. Is this really just a color update, or will it change with tips and burn in?


----------



## Sylmar

dotter said:


> What KZ headphones can you recommend me for listening music like Nightwish, Withing Temptation etc. I need headphones, where nearby people can't hear music I listening.


 
 I guess each has his or her own favorites. I would say ED9 since it also gives you the option to play with filters and foams.


----------



## Podster

sylmar said:


> I guess each has his or her own favorites. I would say ED9 since it also gives you the option to play with filters and foams.


 

 Hi, I'm Podster and I approve this message
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 
  
 Pash, try using a larger tip on the HDS1 before you give up on them and also when removing them open and close your mouth so your jaw loosens your ear canal
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As far as the bass on the ZS2, it was tamed down from the ZS1 which truly is the bass monster of the line IMHO, I think with the right tips and seal all these will sound pretty good especially when you consider their price


----------



## pashhtk27

Sadly my ears are too small so only small tips fit me. Will try opening the mouth method. And then maybe attaching tape or something to the wire. xD
I don't give up on earphones that sound good!


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Hi, I'm Podster and I approve this message
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
@pashhtk27
  
 Using a larger tip is a great idea.
  
 Only the original ZS1 is the beautiful bass monster. If they don't have brass rings in the nozzle and a crossover secured to the rear of the tweeter they're not the "real" deal.


----------



## Sylmar

podster said:


> Hi, I'm Podster and I approve this message
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Podster, nice to meet you (I haven't been around long).


----------



## Podster

sylmar said:


> Hi Podster, nice to meet you (I haven't been around long).




No biggie, at some point we were all just around for a short time here you made some great KZ picks just need to tweak a little


----------



## CoiL

Just for information... those who want to get best out of their EDR2 - remove FOAM PIECES from inside nozzles and use very wide bore Philips UE silicone tips. These are correct Philips UE tips: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381519532186?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 There are many AE and eBay sellers listing Philips UE tips but with much smaller bore size which look almost like KZ stock tips with red bore while listing with pictures taken from original UE tips.
 I have fallen for that "scam" already 2 times. 
 Original Philips UE tips are with very soft and thin silicone "skirt" while having medium strength tube - giving great seal and detail pass-through result. Highly recommended tips.
 Second choice would be CX300 blue replacement tips: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/6-pcs-3-pairs-Replacement-Triple-Flange-Earbuds-tips-Set-for-CX300-In-Ear-Earphones-S/32585964409.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.106.UaDkwG
  
 This is probably best You can get out of EDR2. They still lack overall resolution, details and separation/layering (mainly in middle of soundstage (depth) ) compared to ED9, ED10, ATE (2nd gen) but are nevertheless very good sounding and cause 0 fatigue with long listening sessions.
  
 Gearbest has them now ONLY FOR *4.85 $* !!! That`s absurdly crazy value !!! http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316680.html


----------



## pashhtk27

I received Joyroom E107 yesterday, and that made me realize that micro drivers aren't for me. Tips got stuck again, this time in both ears. But the package and built of the earphones make for a great gift. xD
 I did try rolling some tips with the hds1 but they sound quite boomy. And the vocals and most music feels panned towards the right with a tiny soundstage that makes me feel they are mono. I swapped left with right and got the same results so don't think there is any channel imbalance. I tried varying the insertion and that changed the sound but not the right panned music and soundstage. So I believe that maybe the shape of my canals make them so. Had the tweezers in my hands for the entire duration. My ears are really tight, I can actually use hds1 without any tips!
  
 Zs2 have no brass ring in nozzle but there seem to be some kind of crossover. I don't regret the purchase since they sound quite good and look absolutely marvelous 
 And I'm no basshead. Just wanted a bassy earphone in my collection. 
  
 Some pics of Zs2: (From cellphone, forgive the low quality)


----------



## Podster

pashhtk27 said:


> I received Joyroom E107 yesterday, and that made me realize that micro drivers aren't for me. Tips got stuck again, this time in both ears. But the package and built of the earphones make for a great gift. xD
> 
> I did try rolling some tips with the hds1 but they sound quite boomy. And the vocals and most music feels panned towards the right with a tiny soundstage that makes me feel they are mono. I swapped left with right and got the same results so don't think there is any channel imbalance. I tried varying the insertion and that changed the sound but not the right panned music and soundstage. So I believe that maybe the shape of my canals make them so. Had the tweezers in my hands for the entire duration. My ears are really tight, I can actually use hds1 without any tips!
> 
> ...




Nice Pash, love the blue


----------



## crabdog

pashhtk27 said:


> I received Joyroom E107 yesterday, and that made me realize that micro drivers aren't for me. Tips got stuck again, this time in both ears. But the package and built of the earphones make for a great gift. xD
> I did try rolling some tips with the hds1 but they sound quite boomy. And the vocals and most music feels panned towards the right with a tiny soundstage that makes me feel they are mono. I swapped left with right and got the same results so don't think there is any channel imbalance. I tried varying the insertion and that changed the sound but not the right panned music and soundstage. So I believe that maybe the shape of my canals make them so. Had the tweezers in my hands for the entire duration. My ears are really tight, I can actually use hds1 without any tips!
> 
> Zs2 have no brass ring in nozzle but there seem to be some kind of crossover. I don't regret the purchase since they sound quite good and look absolutely marvelous
> ...


 
 Sounds like you're doing what I USED to do with my iems: shoving smaller tips right into your ear canal. I've since learned to use big tips that comfortably seal the outer edge of my ear canal, like putting a finger in my ear and not trying to implant them directly into my brain. Give it a try.


----------



## CoiL

I`m also using smallest tips all the time. My ears, ear-canals just are small. Only few IEM`s with shorter nozzle like ANV needs to be used with medium tips. 
 This is totally personal anatomic thing. No big tips work for me, they won`t even "go" anywhere to get seal. Tips getting stuck can be result of many things - bad tip tube-lip edge, wrong angle while inserting/removing. Best results I`ve found are with tips that have "cone-shaped" skirt which follows ear-canal shape much easily and longer than usual "round-shaped" tips.
 Some great examples are Huast H10 and Huawei Honor tips. But lot also depends of tip silicone material softness too - are they going to "cramp" or not with insertion and do they hold the shape while warmed up. Also tip edge is important - how soft it is and how it contracts(or not) which may cause discomfort and "pressure" to tip pushing it outside of ear. 
 Btw, I have ~30 different silicone tips in my collection, so, I have quite a lot experience with tip-rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Still about 7 tips that I want to add to collection (old and new spinfits, Auvios, Olives and some others). Will take pics (top, down & side) and add all the buying links when I finish this collection.


----------



## pashhtk27

@Coil My favorite tips too are 'cone-shared'. Buy they have a slightly larger core so they slip on earphones with narrow nozzle like hds1/hds3/joyroom. Most of the tips I have also slip which is the reason they get stuck, I realized now. Put tighter tips from vsonic vc02 on both earphones. Now they don't get stuck.
I have some triple flanges ordered from aliexpress coming soon. Let's see how it goes.

@Crabdog Yes,I shove them all the way in. But with larger tips, they are uncomfortable and slip out of my ears, like Coil says. I'll try medium sized tips and see if I can seal well, not shoving them too inside. 

Thank you everyone for your experiences. Good to know I'm not the only one


----------



## vegetaleb

Tried the KZ ATES on my brand new HTC 10 and I must say they sound much better now!
 Bass is less boomy and everything is balanced.
 The memory wires make them my N1 for sports, even the mpow I received pop up with the hooks and are nowhere as good sounding


----------



## Viber

Anyone knows the difference between ATE and ATE-S?
  
 thanks.


----------



## jipan

viber said:


> Anyone knows the difference between ATE and ATE-S?
> 
> thanks.


 

 Other than ATE-S had memory wire, I think some page back someone said ATE-S had more bass than older, vented ATE. I have no idea if the current batch of ATE (non vented, no memory wire) sounded same with ATE-S.


----------



## Nachash

I was wondering if this store is legit:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387
 ​
 ​Forgot to ask, I'm currently using the same Meelectronics M6 since 2012 but they're almost destroyed. I only use them for jogging/biking, and to be honest I don't care that much about sq when I'm moving around. Is the KZ ATE-S a good alternative?


----------



## To.M

well, I can tell you this, I run with EDR2 but last week I took my black ATE for a run and the end result was the right housing was half full of sweat  luckily, after quick drying it is ok now but I am back to EDR2  however, I ordered QKZ W1 PRO, some people recommeded them here and they are supposedly waterproof


----------



## Nachash

​That's a bummer, I'm gonna skip then.


----------



## crabdog

to.m said:


> well, I can tell you this, I run with EDR2 but last week I took my black ATE for a run and the end result was the right housing was half full of sweat  luckily, after quick drying it is ok now but I am back to EDR2  however, I ordered QKZ W1 PRO, some people recommeded them here and they are supposedly waterproof


 
 Have you tried running with Piano? Oh and did you get new cable yet?


----------



## To.M

hiya crabdog, I should have the cable on Monday, no, I have never run with Piano, they are too precious to me to treat them like this, to bathe them in sweat 3 times a week… naay


----------



## Nachash

to.m said:


> hiya crabdog, I should have the cable on Monday, no, I have never run with Piano, they are too precious to me to treat them like this, to bathe them in sweat 3 times a week… naay


 
 Are there any microphonics problems with the EDR2?


----------



## crabdog

nachash said:


> Are there any microphonics problems with the EDR2?


 
 KZ product = microphonics, at least the ones that I have do (HDS2, ED9, EDR2). Wearing them over ear or using shirt clip helps a lot.


----------



## To.M

well, let's not exaggerate, I run with edr2 without a shirt clip and it is ok


----------



## darmanastartes

I usually exercise with a pair of KZ ATE's. They're not perfect (the cable can fall off the top of my ear), but I've never had durability issues.


----------



## teston

Today I uncover the grill at the nozzles of the EDR2 and take out the foam pieces. I must say that it sound more aggressive with sharper high but clearer, the clarity and mid also improved. If you want them soft and warm then better keep it.


----------



## jarrsquare

hi sorry for the noob-ish question 
 i was searching for the KZ ATE online and i came across this one:

 after searching through this thread about the diff versions of the ATE, i became very confused and paranoid @_@
 is the ATE pictured above the one with the breathing hole? i cant tell if that small piece is a support piece or a hole or whatever D:
 thanks!!!!


----------



## CoiL

teston said:


> Today I uncover the grill at the nozzles of the EDR2 and take out the foam pieces. I must say that it sound more aggressive with sharper high but clearer, the clarity and mid also improved. If you want them soft and warm then better keep it.


 
 If You want to tame the "sharp" highs littlebit, then use narrower bore tips  For me large bore tips + removed foams is better result.


----------



## kaiteck

jarrsquare said:


> hi sorry for the noob-ish question
> i was searching for the KZ ATE online and i came across this one:
> 
> after searching through this thread about the diff versions of the ATE, i became very confused and paranoid @_@
> ...


 
 Breathing hole? Is there really an IEM that has breathing hole like what opened headphones do? @@ Whut? 

 Sorry don't understand what you meant by breathing hole


----------



## CoiL

kaiteck, read the thread... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 jarrsquare , yes, by the picture there seems to be breathing hole down the lower end of nozzle... BUT... never rely on those AE pics! Just ask from the seller before buying.


----------



## jarrsquare

i did a little "detective" work and found out that those are the version with breathing holes


----------



## kaiteck

jarrsquare said:


> i did a little "detective" work and found out that those are the version with breathing holes


 
  
 There are versions that came with and without breathing holes? 
  
So I've been using my kz ate-s for a year without knowing this. (•___• )​


----------



## cheapbastard

Guys, I found kz heaven.

https://www.jakartanotebook.com/search?key=Knowledge&show=40&sort=newitem&price=&sku=

So many new stuff, and less than 10$ each


----------



## vapman

oooh, I would love to try a vented ATE.


----------



## CoiL

cheapbastard said:


> Guys, I found kz heaven.
> 
> https://www.jakartanotebook.com/search?key=Knowledge&show=40&sort=newitem&price=&sku=
> 
> So many new stuff, and less than 10$ each


 
 There are no new KZ`s there and some are NOT KZ, they are QKZ or other brand. Prices are also quite same as AE or GB etc. sites.


----------



## cheapbastard

[quote name="CoiL" url="/There are no new KZ`s there and some are NOT KZ, they are QKZ or other brand. Prices are also quite same as AE or GB etc. sites.
[/quote]

Ah, my mistake, is qkz different than kz? The way they advertise it feels like kz.

Anyone familiar with their sound?


----------



## jarrsquare

kaiteck said:


> There are versions that came with and without breathing holes?
> 
> So I've been using my kz ate-s for a year without knowing this. (•___• )​


 
 yup! 
 there was a post a couple pages back with descriptions of the diff versions


----------



## CoiL

There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
  
 1) Silver ATE with vent holes and with black/silver metal cable "reliefs".
 2) Translucent black ATE with vent holes and with black/gold metal cable "reliefs".
 3) Translucent black ATE without vent holes and with black/gold metal cable "reliefs".
 4) Translucent black ATE-S with black memory wires and with plastic cable "reliefs".


----------



## CoiL

I`m listening my ANV after long time and... I must say... by SQ they are just head over other KZ`s. Period. 
 They do have minor issue with sub-bass and slightly harsh highs but separation, layering, transparency, micro-details, soundstage and imaging is like nothing else in KZ family.
 I have some ideas how to maybe improve those minor issues... will re-tweak my wood-modded ANV and hear what happens (lessons learned with Monk NUN-mod)


----------



## Ruben123

Slightly harsh highs? If i had the correct 2013 model, they were unlistenable due to the highs. Maybe I had gotten the older ones but I've never known.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> I`m listening my ANV after long time and... I must say... by SQ they are just head over other KZ`s. Period.
> They do have minor issue with sub-bass and slightly harsh highs but separation, layering, transparency, micro-details, soundstage and imaging is like nothing else in KZ family.
> I have some ideas how to maybe improve those minor issues... will re-tweak my wood-modded ANV and hear what happens (lessons learned with Monk NUN-mod).


 
  
 I agree that they are the number one KZ but wouldn't say they're head and tails above the EDR2. EDR2 can hit those sub-bass notes that the ANV falls short of and imo has quicker, tighter bass. It's also a bit smoother and more refined, especially in the treble. Best KZ treble to date I feel. It's better in the extremes. ANV does take it pretty much everywhere else though and it's mids are something special. I really wish KZ would come back with another earphone with a massive driver. Micro drivers and oversized drivers. My favs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


ruben123 said:


> Slightly harsh highs? If i had the correct 2013 model, they were unlistenable due to the highs. Maybe I had gotten the older ones but I've never known.


 
  
 The 2014 revision was a much smoother listen. Same general signature but with more bass and less metallic/harsh highs. The older ones were fine with a filter mod to tame the treble, but the 2014 revision made the original totally obsolete. I use the same filter mod on my 2014 model, but they're still quite nice without it. It's too bad it was discontinued.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > Slightly harsh highs? If i had the correct 2013 model, they were unlistenable due to the highs. Maybe I had gotten the older ones but I've never known.
> ...


 
 I have the latest 2014 version and highs are only slightly harsh, with some records undetected.
  


> Originally Posted by *B9Scrambler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I agree that they are the number one KZ but wouldn't say they're head and tails above the EDR2. EDR2 can hit those sub-bass notes that the ANV falls short of...


 
 For me, with my gear and preferences ANV is way above EDR2, even when latter is modified. 


> and imo has quicker, tighter bass.


 
 I find it opposite - ANV has quicker and tighter bass. Also more detailed. EDR2 bass is also quick and tight but ANV is slightly better in that, imho.


> It's also a bit smoother and more refined, especially in the treble.


 
 Agree about that. EDR2 highs are smooth but somewhat lack micro-details compared to ANV. EDR2 is very good IEM and one of the best KZ`s (top 4 I would say) but has different laid-back smooth sound signature compared to ANV. EDR2 is congested in middle-front of soundstage layering and transparency - my main gripe about EDR2.


----------



## seanwee

coil said:


> I have the latest 2014 version and highs are only slightly harsh, with some records undetected.
> 
> For me, with my gear and preferences ANV is way above EDR2, even when latter is modified.
> I find it opposite - ANV has quicker and tighter bass. Also more detailed. EDR2 bass is also quick and tight but ANV is slightly better in that, imho.
> Agree about that. EDR2 highs are smooth but somewhat lack micro-details compared to ANV. EDR2 is very good IEM and one of the best KZ`s (top 4 I would say) but has different laid-back smooth sound signature compared to ANV. EDR2 is congested in middle-front of soundstage layering and transparency - my main gripe about EDR2.


 
 I love the way you list IEMs in your profile
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Everything comes with its own mini-review.
  
 Would you prefer the ANV over the EDR2 in stock configuration?


----------



## CoiL

seanwee said:


> Would you prefer the ANV over the EDR2 in stock configuration


 
 In stock? No. EDR2 has overall "win". By pure SQ, ANV > EDR2 but overall "win" goes to EDR2 due to non-fatigue and smoother signature. 
 Btw, just got my VE Monk+ and I would say that ANV is very similar but M+ has all the ANV issues fixed - sub-bass extension and presence is there and highs have no harshness.
 Unfortunately, M+ is earbud not IEM.... but I will "fix it" with NUN-mod v2


----------



## zabunny94

hello guys, i've been a silent reader in this thread since January(or february?), finally i just want to get my say on few KZ iem that i've tried and ask a few question

to be honest, i'm really surprised that ED3 isn't hyped at all, it's quite unique since it has a bright character with tight and punchy bass. yes i know that some find it too sibilant, but hey! this is probably the only bright Kz iem that is still haven't discontinued yet right?

and i guess audiobudget need to re-review Kz ate, since i noticed the version that they used was the one without small hole. from my knowledge, you can differentiate the translucent version by it's splitter. the one with small hole had a similar splitter with ed3(no strain relief in the splitter)

i've also tried several more like ed3m, edr1, hds1, ed9, and zs2(thanks to certain local store in my country who sells KZ, i can just grab one without having to wait)

too bad, my ed9 has some kind of channel imbalance, and i had to sell hds1 and zs2 because i don't like their sound signature. ed3m and edr1 seems fine though, the latter even became my most used KZ

and i've tried some product from other chinese competitor like
rock zircon : i like the sound, but poor fit for me because of the short nozzle
rock mula : nothing special, nice build quality though
phrodi pod 600: poor man's rock zircon, though fit better in my ear thanks to ath clr100-like housing, had to give it to my cousin when he was hospitalized so he don't get bored
phrodi pod 007 : for an iem that cost less than 4 dollar, you get nice package with eartips case and pouch, the sound is similar to piston colorful edition
phrodi pod 616 : curently my beater iem, the nozzles are oval shaped, like philips she3590, and as V-shaped as she3590. guess what? cost less than 4 dollar
phrodi pod 500: bright, like very bright that its really prone to sibilance. but i like it, too bad the big housing and short nozzle made a really poor combination in terms of comfortability
meeAudio rx18 : sounds like phrodi 007, but with lower volume

and some popular budget earbuds

a few question though

is kz edr1 and edr2 are the same thing? because i've heard that zs2 and zs1 are actually the same iem just with different color

are short nozzled iems are more tips sensitive than the longer ones? because with zircon and zs2, just changing the tips seems really affecting the bass quantiy

how well does KZ iems fare against something from branwavz in similar price range(certain local store in my country sell jives, delta and omega at less than $5)? since i found that meeAudio rx18 to be a disapointment, are jives actually better than KZs, particularly edr1 considering they're supposed to be twice the prices of most KZ?

anyone knwo whether ate-s have small hole near the nozzle or not?


----------



## seanwee

zabunny94 said:


> hello guys, i've been a silent reader in this thread since January(or february?), finally i just want to get my say on few KZ iem that i've tried and ask a few question
> 
> to be honest, i'm really surprised that ED3 isn't hyped at all, it's quite unique since it has a bright character with tight and punchy bass. yes i know that some find it too sibilant, but hey! this is probably the only bright Kz iem that is still haven't discontinued yet right?
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome to head-fi
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and what a lengthy first post!!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

@zabunny94 Welcome! Glad there is another out there that likes the original ED3 "Perfection"  It's one of my favs. I completely agree with your statements. Bright with tight, snappy bass. Bright KZs seem to get a bad rap *tear* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good catch on the ATE differences. Not sure if anyone else has caught that!
  
 EDR1 and EDR2 should be different. EDR1 should be similar, if not the same, as the EDse in sound (close to the ED9 w/gold filter imo), at least according to comments from wayyyyy back in the thread. EDR2 uses a very light aluminum housing instead of the cast iron of old, haha.
  
 I've got the Brainwavz Omega and I would put it behind the best of the KZs. It's still quite nice, but it's bass is a bit loose and treble splashy (at least to me). I can deal with loose bass, but sloppy treble is the killer. That's why I can't get back into the EDse.


----------



## zabunny94

is the omega disappointing for you b9? I'm interested in Jives particularly because of the free case and comply foam tips bundled with it. but if the sound quality is inferior to, let say something that is also v-shaped like edr1, then i would scratch that from my list

i guess i had to put edr2 in my buy-list, but i had to wait for the local store to stock up, besides, nkthing that could go wrong for a $5 iem(local prices is awesome  )


----------



## Sulbh

So I received my ATE yesterday and my initial impression is that these are not that good.I don't why there is so much hype about these.Bass is pretty low and soundstage is almost non existence.Seperation is also very poor.Though mids are somewhat good and these are only positive thing about these.Yes these are very cheap but there are better options like rock zircon and soundmagic es18 which is the best headphone under 20.I even prefer VE monk to these.Despite of being an earbud monk trumps it in almost every aspect and its cheaper than this.


----------



## B9Scrambler

zabunny94 said:


> is the omega disappointing for you b9? I'm interested in Jives particularly because of the free case and comply foam tips bundled with it. but if the sound quality is inferior to, let say something that is also v-shaped like edr1, then i would scratch that from my list
> 
> i guess i had to put edr2 in my buy-list, but i had to wait for the local store to stock up, besides, nkthing that could go wrong for a $5 iem(local prices is awesome
> 
> ...


 
  
 I like the Omega quite a bit and think it's a great iem (my review for reference). I found it to be very versatile and sound good across a large variety of genres. I just prefer the KZ "house sound"; essentially what I hear from the EDse, ED9, ED10, ED8, ED3. All of those have a similar sound but with various degrees of technical ability, frequency emphasis, etc. I totally get why many people for a while were moving away from KZ since their earphones were sounding quite similar. It's good that their newer offerings have added more variety (ex. ED3c, HDS1, and ZN1 Mini all sound very different).
  
 I strongly recommend the EDR2, buuuuuuuut, I don't quite hear it the same as everyone else. To me it's more-or-less neutral with a treble tilt. Bass extends quite deep, but it's in no way emphasized or overpowering. Discounting the ANV since it has been discontinued, I find the EDR2 to be a step up from other KZ's in it's technical prowess; tons of detail, great clarity, no veil, spacious soundstage (but behind the ATE/ZS1/ZN1 trio). That's why I put it right up there beside the Monk/Monk+ as the best bang for your buck. It does a ton right and very little wrong (cable gets annoying).
  
@Sulbh If you have spare tips and haven't already spent time tip-rolling, it's definitely worth taking the time to play around with the ATE. I'm guessing you have the silver version? Unlike the majority out there, I found my two pairs of silver ATEs (purchased when they first launched) to be pretty mid-centric with roll off at either end. With the right tips, soundstage, separation and positioning should be great. I find them to be a very relaxing listen since they're neither bright nor bassy, and excel with vocals, guitars, piano, etc. I would go as far as to say that the two silver ATEs I have are right up there with the HDS1, ANV, ED3, and EDR2 in being as close to neutral as it gets in the KZ camp.


----------



## Sulbh

b9scrambler said:


> I like the Omega quite a bit and think it's a great iem (my review for reference). I found it to be very versatile and sound good across a large variety of genres. I just prefer the KZ "house sound"; essentially what I hear from the EDse, ED9, ED10, ED8, ED3. All of those have a similar sound but with various degrees of technical ability, frequency emphasis, etc. I totally get why many people for a while were moving away from KZ since their earphones were sounding quite similar. It's good that their newer offerings have added more variety (ex. ED3c, HDS1, and ZN1 Mini all sound very different).
> 
> I strongly recommend the EDR2, buuuuuuuut, I don't quite hear it the same as everyone else. To me it's more-or-less neutral with a treble tilt. Bass extends quite deep, but it's in no way emphasized or overpowering. Discounting the ANV since it has been discontinued, I find the EDR2 to be a step up from other KZ's in it's technical prowess; tons of detail, great clarity, no veil, spacious soundstage (but behind the ATE/ZS1/ZN1 trio). That's why I put it right up there beside the Monk/Monk+ as the best bang for your buck. It does a ton right and very little wrong (cable gets annoying).
> 
> ...




I have black version and I tried only foam tips that came with them.But still I can certainly say that there are better options.I actually consider these to be a step down from VE monk which is very shameful considering those are earbuds and still beat these.


----------



## zabunny94

@b9scrambler guess i'll get the jives when local store in my area re-stocked them

@sulbh

does your black Ate has a small hole near the nozzle? the one with small hole is supposed to have a warm-darkish sound with smoothed out treble and wide sound stage( at least that what my ears said  ) also, the stock tips are horrible


----------



## B9Scrambler

zabunny94 good call. Jives were well-received. I'm sure they'll be nice 

And yeah, stock tips are not good on the ATE, foams esp.


----------



## notamethlab

Hey guys to my understanding the KZ IE80 has been discontinued but I see it on Aliexpress.

Does anyone know if these are legit KZ earphones??


----------



## seanwee

notamethlab said:


> Hey guys to my understanding the KZ* IE80* has been discontinued but I see it on Aliexpress.
> 
> Does anyone know if these are legit KZ earphones??


 
 Never heard of them. 
  
 The only IE80s ive heard of are the Sennheiser IE80s


----------



## notamethlab

seanwee said:


> Never heard of them.
> 
> The only IE80s ive heard of are the Sennheiser IE80s


 

Here is a link to them. My concern is if they are discontinued then how are they still available because I believe these released back in 2014

Hot Sale Original Quality KZ IE80 Noise Cancelling HiFi Deep Bass In-Ear Stereo Music Mobile Earphones T5
 http://s.aliexpress.com/jUnayEJb 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## seanwee

notamethlab said:


> Here is a link to them. My concern is if they are discontinued then how are they still available because I believe these released back in 2014
> 
> Hot Sale Original Quality KZ IE80 Noise Cancelling HiFi Deep Bass In-Ear Stereo Music Mobile Earphones T5
> http://s.aliexpress.com/jUnayEJb
> (from AliExpress Android)


 
 HAHAHA, those look exactly like the Sennheiser IE80s . Take a look http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-ie80


----------



## zabunny94

@seanwee

back in 2014, KZ is just a small company that make some kind of a 'copy' of famous product, take a look at some of KZ early product, most of them resemble something from other company

even nowaday, some of the design are clearly 'inspired' from certain product, even though not as blatantly as back then (looking at Ate and ED10)


----------



## seanwee

zabunny94 said:


> @seanwee
> 
> back in 2014, KZ is just a small company that make some kind of a 'copy' of famous product, take a look at some of KZ early product, most of them resemble something from other company
> 
> even nowaday, some of the design are clearly 'inspired' from certain product, even though not as blatantly as back then (looking at *Ate* and ED10)


 
 from audio technica IM series?


----------



## pashhtk27

sulbh said:


> So I received my ATE yesterday and my initial impression is that these are not that good.I don't why there is so much hype about these.Bass is pretty low and soundstage is almost non existence.Seperation is also very poor.Though mids are somewhat good and these are only positive thing about these.Yes these are very cheap but there are better options like rock zircon and soundmagic es18 which is the best headphone under 20.I even prefer VE monk to these.Despite of being an earbud monk trumps it in almost every aspect and its cheaper than this.




You gotta remove those foam tips, they are 'exceptionally' useless with ate. Try wide bore tips. Note that I have the black version with 'the holes'. I had es18, they were the first earphone I ever bought. Of all my collection they had the smallest soundstage......and were very warm and bassy and very smooth. Nowhere near kz level...imo ofc.

And yes, monks are better than ate, especially since they are earbuds. And especially since they are the monks! Pity they don't fit me.


----------



## To.M

Exacly, foam tips are crappy, I use silicone ones, size medium and the SQ from my black ATE (no holes) is really good. However, they must be placed in ears correctly in order to be able to enjoy their full power


----------



## FahimTheTwit

Hi! Just got the KZ ATE, can anyone share their EQ for it? It sounds amazing but kind of bloated in between the lows and mids. I just want slightly less bass and less recessed mids. Thanks! I've heard ATEs react to EQ very well.


----------



## Sulbh

pashhtk27 said:


> You gotta remove those foam tips, they are 'exceptionally' useless with ate. Try wide bore tips. Note that I have the black version with 'the holes'. I had es18, they were the first earphone I ever bought. Of all my collection they had the smallest soundstage......and were very warm and bassy and very smooth. Nowhere near kz level...imo ofc.
> 
> And yes, monks are better than ate, especially since they are earbuds. And especially since they are the monks! Pity they don't fit me.


 

 Tips are just icing on cake if the drivers are not good tips can not make headphones sound good.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sulbh said:


> Tips are just icing on cake if the drivers are not good tips can not make headphones sound good.


 
  
 Very true. Luckily the ATE is a very competent earphone with a quality driver.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Went through and listened to a few different KZs today in preparation for buckling down and writing my massive comparo, or whatever it's going to end up being. Forgot how much I liked some, particularly the ED10.
  
 In my original comparo, I put the ED10 at the top of the pile. When the HDS1, ED3c "The Acme", and ZS1 came out I said it was usurped by the HDS1. Eh....I'm not so sure about that anymore. With the right tips some quality recordings the ED10 has zipped back up there with my heavy hitters. The combination of bass quality AND quantity (_the dialed down mid-bass and plenty of sub-bass fits my preferences nicely_), clarity, and soundstage is pretty nice.
  
 The Z1 I haven't spent that much time with since I thought it was identical sounding to the ED4. After spending a bit of time a/bing the two today I would have to say that they are _almost_ identical. While both are hyper-aggressive and quite bright, the ED4 is a teensy, tiny bit warmer with a barely perceptible increase in sub-bass.
  
 The HDS1 I came away from really disappointed, and as a result didn't send much time with. Maybe it's because listened to them right after the ED4/Z1 which I find very open and spacious sounding but they just sounded really, really congested. This experience was a bit of a bummer because normally they're one of my favorite KZs. I'll have to reset my 'pallet' and listen to them again later.
  
 ED3c was just as I remembered; warm and sweet with ridiculously smooth mids and treble. I still think they could use a bit more energy and tighter bass, but man do they sound fantastic as-is. Relaxing and perfect for long listening sessions. These little guys are pretty great. I think I like them even more now than I did before...
  
 Finally, the RX. Light, nice design, great cable (same as the Micro Ring), deep bass, warm mids, and surprisingly tight treble. These do not sound like a KZ that came out before the EDse. They're shockingly close to the ED3c in signature and quality but a little rougher around the edges and with less forward mids. Still, I think these are something that would be well-liked around here were they to get into more hands.
  
 I also put in some time with the ATE, but I think I've talked about them enough.
  
 That's it for today!
  
 *Edit: Just noticed the ZS1/ZN1 have a very Noble Audio Savant-esq shape to them. Huh...*


----------



## Sulbh

b9scrambler said:


> Went through and listened to a few different KZs today in preparation for buckling down and writing my massive comparo, or whatever it's going to end up being. Forgot how much I liked some, particularly the ED10.
> 
> In my original comparo, I put the ED10 at the top of the pile. When the HDS1, ED3c "The Acme", and ZS1 came out I said it was usurped by the HDS1. Eh....I'm not so sure about that anymore. With the right tips some quality recordings the ED10 has zipped back up there with my heavy hitters. The combination of bass quality AND quantity (_the dialed down mid-bass and plenty of sub-bass fits my preferences nicely_), clarity, and soundstage is pretty nice.
> 
> ...




So ed10 is better than ATE?


----------



## B9Scrambler

sulbh said:


> So ed10 is better than ATE?


 
  
 They're too different to say which is better. My ATE is mid-focused. The ED10 is bass and treble heavy. I like them both quite a bit, but for different purposes. ED10 gets tiring after a while. ATE is chill all the time. Would come down to signature preference imo.


----------



## Sulbh

b9scrambler said:


> They're too different to say which is better. My ATE is mid-focused. The ED10 is bass and treble heavy. I like them both quite a bit, but for different purposes. ED10 gets tiring after a while. ATE is chill all the time. Would come down to signature preference imo.




Well sadly I found ATE to be very unnatural and non musical sounding headphone.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sulbh said:


> Well sadly I found ATE to be very unnatural and non musical sounding headphone.




Maybe you got a bad pair? Or they're just not your cup of tea? At least they're cheap. Could probably sell them and get all your money back


----------



## mebaali

@B9Scrambler - After a long gap listened to my KZs. Still love the sound of both ATE (a very smooth sounding, easy listening IEMs for my tastes) and ED9 (with brass filter providing great details) with ED10 (treble still a bit too peaky for my liking) coming close second. HDS1 which I kinda loved when I first got them few months back, seem to sound so ordinary in front of these three. My main gripe was there was nothing that stood out in HDS1 for my ears (kinda bland sounding and as you rightly pointed out a very congested one in that).


----------



## StoneHeart

I mostly listen to heavy metal music such as AVENGED SEVENFOLD, KILLSWITCH ENGAGE, PANTERA, TRIVIUM, MACHINE HEAD... Please give me suggestion what model should i buy?


----------



## zabunny94

@StoneHeart

try kz ed3 or ed9

avoid something like ate or hds1


----------



## seanwee

stoneheart said:


> I mostly listen to heavy metal music such as *AVENGED SEVENFOLD*, KILLSWITCH ENGAGE, *PANTERA, TRIVIUM*, MACHINE HEAD... Please give me suggestion what model should i buy?


 
 Haha, i listen to those too
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I only can say that the EDR2 sounds congested with heavy metal. Not too bad but its not quite right for the genre.Something faster or brighter would sound nicer.


----------



## StoneHeart

zabunny94 said:


> @StoneHeart
> 
> try kz ed3 or ed9
> 
> avoid something like ate or hds1




Will check those...


----------



## StoneHeart

seanwee said:


> Haha, i listen to those too .
> 
> I only can say that the EDR2 sounds congested with heavy metal. Not too bad but its not quite right for the genre.Something faster or brighter would sound nicer.




Cool... Same music taste
How about basic ie 800 hd? Is that good for that genre?


----------



## seanwee

stoneheart said:


> Cool... Same music taste
> How about basic ie 800 hd? Is that good for that genre?


 
 Ive not tried those before so i cant comment on that.


----------



## Willber

Oh, great. I've spent the past two weeks reading this thread (yes, ALL of it!) and when I finally get here the place is empty. What happened?


----------



## Podster

willber said:


> Oh, great. I've spent the past two weeks reading this thread (yes, ALL of it!) and when I finally get here the place is empty. What happened?


 

 I'll do this in my best "Mr. Ed" impression............"Well hello Willlber"
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This place could light up at any time, seems a lot of KZ folks have moved on and up the budget chain and can be found in the Chinese iem thread. I can probably tell you about a few KZ's though


----------



## Willber

Hi Pod(?), thanks for the welcome. I don't want to spook you out but I already know what you like and why, along with most of the (previously) regular posters - I have been very thorough! There is some truly excellent info on here, both scientific and subjective, not to say much good humour and a little angst, and I thank you all for that. I'll just hang around and see what occurs in the meantime. When I've got more time I'll share my (limited) purchases, experiences and views.
 Cheers,
 Will


----------



## Podster

willber said:


> Hi Pod(?), thanks for the welcome. I don't want to spook you out but I already know what you like and why, along with most of the (previously) regular posters - I have been very thorough! There is some truly excellent info on here, both scientific and subjective, not to say much good humour and a little angst, and I thank you all for that. I'll just hang around and see what occurs in the meantime. When I've got more time I'll share my (limited) purchases, experiences and views.
> Cheers,
> Will


 

 Look forward to it, guess after reading 744 pages I can't call you a lurker! More like an absentee poster
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You already know what I like and why eh, we are talking iem's here right


----------



## Willber

podster said:


> You already know what I like and why eh, we are talking iem's here right


 
 Mainly, but I can read between the lines... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
  
 (actually, I can't)


----------



## Ruben123

Many have indeed upgraded to more expensive buds, I though, keep sticking to this price point though I dont have heard that many KZs to post that often to keep this thread very alive 
  
 I do think though that price-quality ratio is excellent, the quality of $20 buds could be a bit better but not twice better, and so on. Having semi HiFi earphones for a few bucks is crazy, therefore Im not upgrading (although I do have better earphones than my few KZs). Also KZ havent launched many earphones as of late.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Ruben123 I've moved up the chain a little bit, but KZs will always have a place in my ears no matter what. I'm anxiously awaiting some new KZs which I hope *fingers crossed* take them in a new and positive direction.


----------



## Gussisaurio

willber said:


> Oh, great. I've spent the past two weeks reading this thread (yes, ALL of it!) and when I finally get here the place is empty. What happened?


 

 Ah, you beat me. I have been reading past post for the last three months. Still 100 pages to go, yet the place is indeed, empty. Probably because there has been a really long time since the last KZ new model release.
  
 KZ, we need new model, NOW!!!


----------



## CoiL

KZ don`t need new DD model - they need to jump on DD+*BA* configuration and fix their QC issues ! NOW !


----------



## KipNix

Does anyone have any (Knowledge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) or information on this iRock A8? Ali has them at a good price but I can't even find the manufacturer, let alone any reviews.


----------



## Podster

kipnix said:


> Does anyone have any (Knowledge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Love the way the clear looks, just needs a sweet (better) black cable and tips
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wonder how different they sound compared to VJJB V1 which puts the nozzle right between the dual DD's, the iRock appears to have the 9MM in front of the nozzle on the end and the 7MM offset!
  
 You know I guess I should have said compared to the ZS1 or ZN1 Mini since we are in the KZ thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm with Coil, KZ needs to take that next step into hybrid town


----------



## tusharthegamer

Zs3 launched or its a old IEM?


----------



## zabunny94

oh wow, just about when someone ask for a new KZ, they delivers XD

based on the picture, seems like we would have a removable cable, and i hope the blue tube in the nozzles to be a BA driver, so we can finally have a kz hybrid iem

the current price is too steep for me though, considering literally 5 hours ago i just purchased joyroom e103


----------



## B9Scrambler

WHAAAAATTTT!! KZ. Ballers. I need those NOW. Sheeeeeet.


----------



## CoiL

tusharthegamer said:


> Zs3 launched or its a old IEM?


 
 Single DD ? Still going same road? C`mon KZ... stop producing nice shells and get into DD+BA business!!! ZS3 - blaaaah, not for me ;(


----------



## Folly

It's a new IEM I think. Pricing is around 30 bucks. EDIT: In another listing its selling for $15. No idea why lol


----------



## zabunny94

yeah, if this turned out to be a singgle DD again, then its not for me either

but, zs series is supposed to be dual driver right?

besides, new KZ product always come in a swarm right? meaning there's probably another one or two coming in near future


----------



## B9Scrambler

I am perfectly happy with a single DD if it's well-tuned. Lots of earphones out there have proven that single dds can output some seriously good sound quality; Titan 1, IE800, etc. I still want to see a KZ hybrid, but if it's another single DD they want to release, I'm in.


----------



## crabdog

I gotta say though, that is one gorgeous looking shell. Removable cables hello! I probably prefer 2 pin connectors over MMCX because they stay in place and memory wire doesn't need to be adjusted so much. Kudos also for the super clear Left and Right markings. Since I still haven't bought the ATE I might just grab one of these instead.


----------



## CoiL

Well, zs3 buyers, let us know how they compete against ATE, ED9, HDS1, EDR2. Around 12$ is max I would pay for these. Nice shells don`t make me buy it - it`s all about SQ.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@CoiL Will do. I'm not passing on these. Even if it is only one DD, it looks like a micro DD which makes these an auto-purchase for me.


----------



## zabunny94

I'm more interested on how zs3 stand against tennmak pro/piano, considering they're competing on the same price range


----------



## crabdog

coil said:


> Well, zs3 buyers, let us know how they compete against ATE, ED9, HDS1, EDR2. Around 12$ is max I would pay for these. Nice shells don`t make me buy it - it`s all about SQ.


 
 Aww cmon man we all know you'd crack the shell open anyway! I didn't mean the shell just looks good. It looks like it will make sweet love to my ears with those soft curves and give me max comfort and good noise isolation.
  
 Can anyone give a link to a cheaper price? I only found one seller at $28.


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Single DD ? Still going same road? C`mon KZ... stop producing nice shells and get into DD+BA business!!! ZS3 - blaaaah, not for me ;(




Single DD or Hybrid is the $10,000 question right now If it is hybrid I'll have to


----------



## CoiL

It is single DD.


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:
			
		

> .It is single DD.




Bummer


----------



## duo8

Well it certainly looks like a single dynamic unit.
  
 Slapping on a BA doesn't mean instant sound improvement. You may remember what happened with the TTPod T2 (which drove me away from them). I got the Piston hybrids now and I can't say I like the sound, it's not very well-tuned.


----------



## Ruben123

Please instant buy people, I'd like to see reviews and impressions!!!!


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Please instant buy people, I'd like to see reviews and impressions!!!!


 

 Is this a trick question Ruben? I can't possibly review or give impressions unless you let me do my instant buy
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You know that driver setup looks pretty good in the new ZS3 and if I can pay $36 for new TFZ S1's I think these are good looking enough to get $30 out of me. My ZN1 Mini is my best looking KZ in my collection and the 3 looks like a nice improvement on the Mini


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Is this a trick question Ruben? I can't possibly review or give impressions unless you let me do my instant buy:wink_face: You know that driver setup looks pretty good in the new ZS3 and if I can pay $36 for new TFZ S1's I think these are good looking enough to get $30 out of me. My ZN1 Mini is my best looking KZ in my collection and the 3 looks like a nice improvement on the Mini:tongue_smile:




Well then wait few days till the price has come down a bit to $15!! Impressions impressions impressions please and nothing else!!! Lol 
They really look gorgeous


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'll be buying them later tday. Contacted a seller and set up a review deal, lol. I'm getting married in Sept and couldn't justify 40 CAD (our dollar is ballz). Less than that? Certainly.


----------



## Ruben123

In waiting


----------



## KipNix

The "KZ Headphone Official Store" on Ali doesn't list ZS3 yet. Take that for what it's worth.


----------



## B9Scrambler

kipnix said:


> The "KZ Headphone Official Store" on Ali doesn't list ZS3 yet. Take that for what it's worth.




That's not unusual. They're usually late getting new stuff in.


----------



## 1clearhead

About KZ-ZS3.....
  
 Is this even realistic?
  
 Product parameters:
  
 Product Name: KZ ZS3

   Sensitivity: 106dB / mW
   Applicable type of music: rock metal type subwoofer
   Impedance: 18Ω
   *Frequency range: 20-45000Hz*
   Color Classification: Standard Edition
   Wearing styles: hanging ear type
   Headphone type: Wired
   Whether the microphone: without wheat
   Plug Diameter: 3.5mm
   Headphone plug type: L curved
   Headphone output audio source: HiFi
   Cable Length: 1.3M ± 3CM
   Brand: KZ
   Model: ZS3
  
 .....Did you notice the *bold print*?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Official store on taobao website:
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.WIlLM4&id=533678577946&cm_id=140105335569ed55e27b&abbucket=6&sku_properties=5919063:6536025


----------



## Ruben123

Quite a few cheaper headphones do list that. Nothing unusual.


----------



## sandman2338

This is what I'm able to find out

  
*New Arrived KZ ZS3 Hifi Sport In-ear Earphone Dynamic Driver Noise Cancelling Headset With Mic Replacement Cable *
  
*DIY headset* latest cattle products, sports dynamic in-ear headphones. Unique patented tuning technology design, micro-8MM dynamic unit.
  
 This In Ear Headphone is made of double magnetic pronunciation unit 8 mm,  
 With professional equipment,It is easy to capture the Bass and other low-level
 easy to enjoy the rock music
  
 Model Number:KZ ZS3
 Transducer Principle: Dynamic
 Driver Diameter: Ø8mm
 Impedance: 18ohm
 Sensitivity: 106dB
 Frequency Response: 20Hz-20kHz
 Length:120cm
 With or without mic:with mic/without mic

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrived-KZ-ZS3-Hifi-Sport-In-ear-Earphone-Dynamic-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic/32681579071.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.eX954o&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_1_10017_507_401,searchweb201603_9&btsid=4ac55efb-7e20-42a5-a314-0ee56c9a867b


----------



## B9Scrambler

8mm? Aw man. Too large  Oh well. Still pumped to hear them! Will definitely give impressions when they arrive in the next month, or whenever based on my experience with shipping of recent purchases, haha.


----------



## sandman2338

lol I live in Canada as well,takes forever for stuff to arrive from China


----------



## B9Scrambler

Poor guy. I feel your pain. It's been uncharacteristically slow as of late though. 30-45 days I'm used to, but I'm still waiting on two orders shipped March 31st (giving the seller the benefit of the doubt when he says they'll arrive). Erk. At least I have these "new" discontinued ATH-CKP300's to keep me occupied in the meantime. Talking about them isn't too off-topic in this thread given KZs love of Audio Technica designs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hahaha.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ZS3 officially ordered! Hopefully they won't take a trillion years to arrive and that they sound as awesome as they look. KZ has hardly disappointed me except with the HDS2 and HDS3. Those two are sub-par imo (HDS3 less so).


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> *ZS3 officially ordered!* Hopefully they won't take a trillion years to arrive and that they sound as awesome as they look. KZ has hardly disappointed me except with the HDS2 and HDS3. Those two are sub-par imo (HDS3 less so).


 
 I'll be ordering mines this week as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .....hopefully, they don't turn out like the Holy Serpent V9's cable issue. I practically gave the V9's away, though the SQ was pretty good.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> I'll be ordering mines this week as well.   .....hopefully, they don't turn out like the Holy Serpent V9's cable issue. I practically gave the V9's away, though the SQ was pretty good.




Woot! Looking forward to your eventual impressions.

What happened with the V9's cable?


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> Woot! Looking forward to your eventual impressions.
> 
> *What happened with the V9's cable?*


 
  
 Even though the SQ was decent, the detachable end(s) of the cable was really an issue not making good contact. I had to hold my head (or posture) a certain way not to lose the signal (or sound) from either side. One literally broke....ordered another set of cables, and still had the same problem.
  
 .....but, I'm sure the ZS3's will replace this model and do just fine.


----------



## EISENbricher

Hello KZ thread members, I've been away for several days from here. 

I got married on 15th May! Life took a sweet turn. I am curious to see how this would affect the audiophile inside me.


----------



## seanwee

eisenbricher said:


> Hello KZ thread members, I've been away for several days from here.
> 
> I got married on 15th May! Life took a sweet turn. I am curious to see how this would affect the audiophile inside me.


 
 Congrats!!!


----------



## 1clearhead

eisenbricher said:


> Hello KZ thread members, I've been away for several days from here.
> 
> I got married on 15th May! Life took a sweet turn. *I am curious to see how this would affect the audiophile inside me*.


 

 I'm sure it can be double the fun to share your experiences!
  
 My wife is a great supporter helping me out with sound quality, build quality, and if it's price worthy, or not. So, sharing your hobbies, or even in a business perspective.....it's all worth it!
 Congrats!


----------



## seanwee

eisenbricher said:


> Hello KZ thread members, I've been away for several days from here.
> 
> I got married on 15th May! Life took a sweet turn. I am curious to see how this would affect the audiophile inside me.


 
  


1clearhead said:


> I'm sure it can be double the fun to share your experiences!
> 
> My wife is a great supporter helping me out with sound quality, build quality, and if it's price worthy, or not. So, sharing your hobbies, or even in a business perspective.....it's all worth it!
> Congrats!


 
  
 From the lab
  
  


redjohn456 said:


> Congratulations   A long and happy life to you both
> 
> Also RIP your hobby, lets have a moment of silence for our fallen brethren.
> 
> ...


----------



## hifikid245

Was about to purchase a zs3 only to find out Aliexpress doesn't support paypal, what a bummer.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eisenbricher said:


> Hello KZ thread members, I've been away for several days from here.
> 
> I got married on 15th May! Life took a sweet turn. I am curious to see how this would affect the audiophile inside me.


 
 Congrats man! I'm getting married in September. Luckily my spouse-to-be supports the hobby.


----------



## Wokei

@EISENbricher
  
 Congrats bro ....cheers
  

  
@B9Scrambler
  

  
 Joking bro ..LOL


----------



## robervaul

sandman2338 said:


> This is what I'm able to find out
> 
> 
> *New Arrived KZ ZS3 Hifi Sport In-ear Earphone Dynamic Driver Noise Cancelling Headset With Mic Replacement Cable *
> ...


 
 I bought it in another cheap link in this same store, not to mention our traditional discount.


----------



## EISENbricher

b9scrambler said:


> Congrats man! I'm getting married in September. Luckily my spouse-to-be supports the hobby.



Hey congratulations in advance bro. My wife also might support this but it's yet to be proven lol. 




wokei said:


> @EISENbricher
> 
> 
> Congrats bro ....cheers
> ...




Haha thanks senpai


1clearhead said:


> I'm sure it can be double the fun to share your experiences!
> 
> My wife is a great supporter helping me out with sound quality, build quality, and if it's price worthy, or not. So, sharing your hobbies, or even in a business perspective.....it's all worth it!
> Congrats!



That's Great! And thanks man. 



seanwee said:


> Congrats!!!


 
Thanks a lot


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> @B9Scrambler
> 
> 
> 
> Joking bro ..LOL


 
  
 Thanks?


----------



## Gussisaurio

tusharthegamer said:


> Zs3 launched or its a old IEM?


 
  
 Definitely new... but, what is that?


----------



## kaiteck

gussisaurio said:


> Definitely new... but, what is that?


 
 https://world.tmall.com/item/533678577946.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.mK7pnG


----------



## bartzky

The design strongly reminds me to the InEar StageDiver 2:


----------



## vegetaleb

eisenbricher said:


> Hello KZ thread members, I've been away for several days from here.
> 
> I got married on 15th May! Life took a sweet turn. I am curious to see how this would affect the audiophile inside me.


 
  
 Congrats bro!
 But you have to try the ZS3 before bringing any baby


----------



## EISENbricher

vegetaleb said:


> Congrats bro!
> But you have to try the ZS3 before bringing any baby


 
 Hahaha! Can't spend nothing, even on KZ for some time.


----------



## CoiL

Maaaaan... You are screwed!


----------



## Wokei

eisenbricher said:


> Hahaha! Can't spend nothing, even on KZ for some time.




She can always squeeze in a new handbag... Lol


----------



## kiler

wokei said:


> She can always squeeze in a new handbag... Lol


 
 Just have to buy a new handbag that somehow has some new KZ in ears inside haha


----------



## Podster

eisenbricher said:


> Hahaha! Can't spend nothing, even on KZ for some time.


 

 Guess this is first stage in how this sweet change in your life is going to effect your hobby eh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Known as "Life", what happens while your busy making other plans! I'm in your boat to some degree because after 7 years my wife got laid off right after lunch yesterday so I'll curb my appetite until she gets her car back on track. Lucky for me I have a system or 7 to fall back on for now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all about sharing and respect Eisen, shoes/purses or iem's/DAP's it's all the same


----------



## Verasayshi

bartzky said:


> The design strongly reminds me to the InEar StageDiver 2:


 
 They look so alike!


----------



## 1clearhead

D**m! I'm still waiting for my ZS3's.....can't wait!


----------



## Ruben123

Please let them be another beast... Neutral iems, no peaks in fr, just high quality sound, a step up from all kzs to date.


----------



## goodluck4u

How to fit your ear of earphones like KZ ZS1.
  
 First
 straight the wire like the pic
  

  
 Second
 attach it with your ear.
  
 Third 
 Bent its wire along your ear.
  
 Final.
 Like this picture. 

  
 This way is easy to fit one with your ear.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@goodluck4u That should help quite a few people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just leave mine like this all the time.


----------



## kimi7

Hi all, I'm new here!
 I just got the KZ ATE after reading this thread, they look great!, the Xiaomi Piston 2 was the only iem I owned before, I like the KZ a lot! compared to the Pistons I feel they have better mids, the only thing is that they have a bit too much sub bass, I'm not used to. Thanks for the thread!


----------



## nigenarceda

Did anyone recieved their ZS3's yet? I'm excited for some reviews on these gorgeous looking iem's XD


----------



## 1clearhead

nigenarceda said:


> Did anyone recieved their ZS3's yet? I'm excited for some reviews on these gorgeous looking iem's XD


 
 Here in China, I'll be getting them either tomorrow, or the next day!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .....this is eating away at my patience!


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Here in China, I'll be getting them either tomorrow, or the next day!    .....this is eating away at my patience!




So jelly. Mine are going to take forever to get here.


----------



## Vidal

Can anyone clear up what the relationship is between QKZ and KZ are they the same company or is QKZ a rip off brand?


----------



## hapasam

vidal said:


> Can anyone clear up what the relationship is between QKZ and KZ are they the same company or is QKZ a rip off brand?


 
 From what I understand, KZ and QKZ are both under the same company. The difference between the two is as follows:
  
 KZ = their own in house design and manufactured IEMs.
 QKZ = _usually_ generic IEMs designed and manufactured by others, but sold by KZ.  If you look at a lot of the QKZ IEMs, the exact same designs pop up with other brands.


----------



## Vidal

Thanks Hapasam, that makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why the QKZ were popping up elsewhere with other brand names.
  
 I'm guessing that KZ wanted to retail more earphones but rather than design them they just sourced them instead


----------



## tusharthegamer

any zs3 reviews?


----------



## nihontoman

'sup everybody. haven't posted here for about a year, maybe more 
  
 anyways, just ordered the KZ zs3. will do some little review when they arrive. it will be kind of an experiment with KZ - never got one. also interested in all this detachable cable thing...


----------



## 1clearhead

So, I finally recieved the KZ-ZS3 just to find out it came *defective!* The right side is way louder, the screen is missing, and there's a rattling noise inside the housing.
  
 .....yes, I did return them in exchange for another ZS3, but "QC" has always been an issue with KZ. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I did get to hear them for a little and they might be the best sounding KZ, by far!....if only they can get the "QC" under control!
  


 Well? I'll be waiting for the next one.....hope "QC" won't be a factor, again!


----------



## crabdog

1clearhead said:


> So, I finally recieved the KZ-ZS3 just to find out it came *defective!* The right side is way louder, the screen is missing, and there's a rattling noise inside the housing.
> 
> .....yes, I did return them in exchange for another ZS3, but "QC" has always been an issue with KZ.
> 
> ...


 
 That is a real shame mate. I bet it must be very frustrating for you as we're all excited about these new KZ. Hopefully the QC issue is not widespread with the ZS3.


----------



## kiyoshikiyomizu

Anyone got link for the Kz zs3, any china store except aliexpress, taobao tmall everything is fine.


----------



## nihontoman

1clearhead said:


> So, I finally recieved the KZ-ZS3 just to find out it came *defective!* The right side is way louder, the screen is missing, and there's a rattling noise inside the housing.
> 
> .....yes, I did return them in exchange for another ZS3, but "QC" has always been an issue with KZ. :rolleyes:
> 
> ...




that sucks :/ hope mime will come without defects...this whole returning thing will most probably coat me more than these iems so yeah, don't really want to go down that route. 

so how was the sound in the base departmemt? are they really controlled and tight as they promised?


----------



## CoiL

KZ having QC issues again??? Seriously, I think KZ needs some rebranding and step-up to DD+BA territory or they will "fade" away beside all those cheap chinese IEM`s out there.


----------



## 1clearhead

nihontoman said:


> that sucks :/ hope mime will come without defects...this whole returning thing will most probably coat me more than these iems so yeah, don't really want to go down that route.
> 
> *so how was the sound in the base departmemt? are they really controlled and tight as they promised?*


 

 Yea, I hope the second times a charm! The bass department is nice and tight. Well? That's what I got from the left side so far.
  
 .....let's hope for the best.


----------



## nihontoman

[u][color=#0066cc]1clearhead[/color][/u] thanks for the reply. I do like nice and tight things, including base


----------



## kiler

coil said:


> KZ having QC issues again??? Seriously, I think KZ needs some rebranding and step-up to DD+BA territory or they will "fade" away beside all those cheap chinese IEM`s out there.


 
 They probably don't think much about the QC and prefer to just have a ton of sales volume... which is sad because their in house IEM are really good


----------



## Sylmar

coil said:


> KZ having QC issues again??? Seriously, I think KZ needs some rebranding and step-up to DD+BA territory or they will "fade" away beside all those cheap chinese IEM`s out there.


 
 I agree this is the road they should take. Place themselves a bit higher in the chain and definately up the QC.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> So, I finally recieved the KZ-ZS3 just to find out it came *defective!* The right side is way louder, the screen is missing, and there's a rattling noise inside the housing.
> 
> .....yes, I did return them in exchange for another ZS3, but "QC" has always been an issue with KZ.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's a bummer  Nice packaging though...heh. Hopefully this is going to be a 'one-off' QC issue and as long as they're more reliable than the HDS3 I think it'll be fine. Seems like I was one of the few that got a working version of those. Not a huge win because they kinda suck, haha.


----------



## vegetaleb

1clearhead said:


> So, I finally recieved the KZ-ZS3 just to find out it came *defective!* The right side is way louder, the screen is missing, and there's a rattling noise inside the housing.
> 
> .....yes, I did return them in exchange for another ZS3, but "QC" has always been an issue with KZ.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hope the bass is not too much like all other ''sports'' KZ (ATES,ZS1 and ZS2)
 Really like the Ates but the bass is slightly more than I like
 The ZS3 is now at 15$ at aliexpress now that we have more shops that have it


----------



## nihontoman

vegetaleb
  
 They did say that "we have retune the ZS3 base frequency, highlights the detail signal, rather than deliberately amplifying the bass signal in the music." they know that " ... music lovers like not DREARY BASS, but rich texture and full of powerful bass"
  
 ^ seems like they intended to make it more controlled and tight, but present. and that seems to be the case with very limited impressions...


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> That's a bummer  Nice packaging though...heh. Hopefully this is going to be a 'one-off' QC issue and as long as they're more reliable than the HDS3 I think it'll be fine. Seems like I was one of the few that got a working version of those. Not a huge win because they kinda suck, haha.


 

 I kind of like the fact that KZ is taking their time, I think they have established them selves enough to do just that. KZ sells a lot of budget iem by what I've seen and sure they do need to get into hybrid releases in the future but packaging is getting better, offering a removable cable now and hopefully (QC issues aside) this new ZS is improved over the last ones. They sure are a good looking iem


----------



## zabunny94

i like ate/ed9 packaging better... ah well, at least its not the black small cardboard like pretty much kz iem

about QC, can't really expect much from KZ, since i heard plenty of edr2 were shipped without glue on the housing(including mine)


----------



## 1clearhead

nihontoman said:


> vegetaleb
> 
> They did say that "we have retune the ZS3 base frequency, highlights the detail signal, rather than deliberately amplifying the bass signal in the music." they know that " ... music lovers like not DREARY BASS, but rich texture and full of powerful bass"
> 
> ^* seems like they intended to make it more controlled and tight, but present.* and that seems to be the case with very limited impressions...


 
  
 Definitely, it was more controlled, tight with transparency and high definition from the little I heard. I'm sure (if QC isn't an issue) they might turn out to be their best, yet! .....I'm hoping it was worth the exchange for another one.


----------



## vegetaleb

1clearhead said:


> Definitely, it was more controlled, tight with transparency and high definition from the little I heard. I'm sure (if QC isn't an issue) they might turn out to be their best, yet! .....I'm hoping it was worth the exchange for another one.


 
  
 From which seller did you get it?


----------



## mebaali

@1clearhead - I understand you may not be in a right position to answer this query (due to defective ZS3 piece that you have) but I am still asking you
  
 Which one of the ZS3 or Joyroom E107 would you prefer for casual listening (or say which one offers best bang for the buck) ?
  
 Do you think Joyroom E107 is a pretty solid competitor or good enough to surpass most KZ models that you have?
  
 Thanks in advance for your opinion!


----------



## 1clearhead

vegetaleb said:


> From which seller did you get it?


 
  
 Original KZ distributor from taobao in China, since I live in China. .....I know, it's a bummer!
  


mebaali said:


> @1clearhead - I understand you may not be in a right position to answer this query (due to defective ZS3 piece that you have) but I am still asking you
> 
> Which one of the ZS3 or Joyroom E107 would you prefer for casual listening (or say which one offers best bang for the buck) ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea, it's a little hard to comment since their was initially no burn in time given. So, here is what I got out of it.....the Joyroom E107 are a little similar in range and coherence, but the ZS3 sounded a little more open and transparent. Kind of reminded me of the DITA -Truth Edition, even though it sounds like a long shot! Casual listening and comfort could go either way, but best bang for the buck has to go to the ZS3's.
  
 I personally think the Joyroom E107 surpasses 80% of all KZ models in SQ alone, but the ZS3's "after burn-in" can surpass the E107's.....unless QC becomes an issue. I'm hoping it doesn't.


----------



## mebaali

1clearhead said:


> Yea, it's a little hard to comment since their was initially no burn in time given. So, here is what I got out of it.....the Joyroom E107 are a little similar in range and coherence, but the ZS3 sounded a little more open and transparent. Kind of reminded me of the DITA -Truth Edition, even though it sounds like a long shot! Casual listening and comfort could go either way, but best bang for the buck has to go to the ZS3's.
> 
> I personally think the Joyroom E107 surpasses 80% of all KZ models in SQ alone, but the ZS3's "after burn-in" can surpass the E107's.....unless QC becomes an issue. I'm hoping it doesn't.


 
 I just made an order for ZS3 from GB for under US$ 13 (shipped to India), I hope its a good purchase and has no QC issues


----------



## Willber

mebaali said:


> I just made an order for ZS3 from GB for under US$ 13 (shipped to India), I hope its a good purchase and has no QC issues


 

 GB = Gearbest? Do you have a link please, I can't find them on there.


----------



## kiedis

I think GB = GeekBuying. I can't post links on here yet, as I'm a fresh newbie to the forum. But a quick google will find the site for you 
  
 They have it for US$12.79


----------



## mebaali

willber said:


> GB = Gearbest? Do you have a link please, I can't find them on there.


 
 It's geekbuying. I am not sure links from/to these sites are allowed in here. 
  
 You can find ZS3 in the new arrivals list for US $12.79 at their site.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Willber

Thanks chaps, found it, I think I'll order some.


----------



## 1clearhead

Sounds good!


----------



## Willber

1clearhead said:


> Sounds good!


 
 I hope they will! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now the long wait begins...


----------



## kiedis

Does anyone know what size Comply tips I'll need for the ZS3?
  
 I currently have 100's and 200's, but the nozzle on the ZS3 looks a bit larger than that.


----------



## webbyboy

Which KZ is the best for SQ?


----------



## NamiTheScythe

kz ate / ed3 , in my opinion


----------



## zabunny94

seconded that, ed3 is unique among current kz lineup since it's the only one that has bright character

ate while it's really damn good for the price, is very hard to recommend, since there's 4 variant of which have different sound signature


----------



## hifikid245

zabunny94 said:


> since there's 4 variant of which have different sound signature


 I'm really keen to know what the differences are as I particularly ordered an ATE S. Just been to collecting cheap in ears lately and I'm surprised and really impressed with Xiaomi Hybrids. My hopes are high with KZ, hope they won't disappoint me.


----------



## KipNix

Congrats! I got married again a year ago. Life is grand. I think she enjoys my audio hobby because it doesn't cost much.
 Yet.


----------



## BananaOne

Hi guys,
  
 Just stumbled unto this thread and was amazing by all the hype KZ has created in this forum. Now I wish to start my own KZ journey as well. (Have a crazy urge to just buy all of them and try, holding it in)
 Is there any quick recommendations? I personally own the heir audio 4; genres mainly into pop.
  
 Saw a lot of so called "KZ flagship store" in aliexpress, are those legit?
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1158387?spm=2114.12010108.0.72.MtVWo5
  
 http://kzofficial.aliexpress.com/store/1464008
  
 Cheers


----------



## Vidal

bananaone said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just stumbled unto this thread and was amazing by all the hype KZ has created in this forum. Now I wish to start my own KZ journey as well. (Have a crazy urge to just buy all of them and try, holding it in)
> Is there any quick recommendations? I personally own the heir audio 4; genres mainly into pop.
> ...




I would recommend ED9 and ATE as a couple to try.


----------



## Podster

bananaone said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just stumbled unto this thread and was amazing by all the hype KZ has created in this forum. Now I wish to start my own KZ journey as well. (Have a crazy urge to just buy all of them and try, holding it in)
> Is there any quick recommendations? I personally own the heir audio 4; genres mainly into pop.
> ...


 

 My top two KZ are ED9 and ZN1 Mini
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I also own ATE, ED3, HDS1, ZN1 Amped and DT5's)
  
 Good luck and have fun


----------



## goodluck4u

vidal said:


> I would recommend ED9 and ATE as a couple to try.



+1


----------



## seanwee

Which KZ has the most crispy sound (fastest transistents)?


----------



## Vishal

seanwee said:


> Which KZ has the most crispy sound (fastest transistents)?




Kz ed9


----------



## Podster

vishal said:


> Kz ed9





+1 Vishal, I feel the same but others may not. Good sealing tips on the brass filter can result in some fine sound for a $14 iem


----------



## B9Scrambler

@seanwee ED3 is my recommendation for crispy speedness. ED9 is great, but I find it's treble is a bit loose.
  
@BananaOne Some good KZ's to start with are *ED9 *(all-rounder), *ED10 *(similar to ED9 w/gold filter, but more refined), *EDR2 *(neutral-ish with a treble bump, excellent techincal ability for such a cheap iem), *ED3 *(bright with nice vocals and quick, tight bass).
  
 On another note, seems KZ's QC woes continue with the ZS3. Sounds like they've recalled the first batch. I just received this message from my seller.
  
_"Factory to produce the first batch of the product in question, the requirements of manufacturers of all returned products, but mold damage Today, about 15 days to send (about July 10)"_
  
 Maybe the damage to the mold explained the rattling sound @1clearhead was experiencing.


----------



## BananaOne

Thanks everyone for your quick feedback!
  
 I have indeed started on this journey with the following iems:
  
 KZ ED9 
 KZ ATE
 KZ ZS3 (Just love the looks)
  
 Rock Mula
 Rock Zircon
 DZAT DF-10
  
 Really looking forward to the KZ especially with the hype I have been seeing here! *Fingers crossed


----------



## mebaali

@B9Scrambler received somewhat similar message from geekbuying today (placed an order for ZS3 few days back). Mail states that the ZS3 are out of stock and the new batch will be in stock only post July 10th. And you might be right, It appears that the first batch of ZS3s were recalled by the manufacturer.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The ZS3's design seems pretty complex compared to anything KZ has made in the past, so I'm not entirely shocked to hear they're having issues with it. Disappointed slightly, but not surprised. The fact that they issued a recall shows they are trying to address QC issues. How aggressively, I guess we will find out once they start to get into more hands. I'm hoping for the best!
  
 On the plus side, KZ offered the ED2 as compensation. The seller mentioned they would be sending one along which I declined (not their fault, why should they compensate?), but they said it was per the manufacturer, I guess the KZ shootout when finally written will also include the ED2 and I can finally put to rest if they are the same as the EDse.


----------



## seanwee

vishal said:


> Kz ed9


 
  


podster said:


> +1 Vishal, I feel the same but others may not. Good sealing tips on the brass filter can result in some fine sound for a $14 iem


 
  


b9scrambler said:


> @seanwee ED3 is my recommendation for crispy speedness. ED9 is great, but I find it's treble is a bit loose.
> 
> @BananaOne Some good KZ's to start with are *ED9 *(all-rounder), *ED10 *(similar to ED9 w/gold filter, but more refined), *EDR2 *(neutral-ish with a treble bump, excellent techincal ability for such a cheap iem), *ED3 *(bright with nice vocals and quick, tight bass).
> 
> ...


 
 THX !!!


----------



## ChickenButcher

b9scrambler said:


> @seanwee ED3 is my recommendation for crispy speedness. ED9 is great, but I find it's treble is a bit loose.
> 
> @BananaOne Some good KZ's to start with are *ED9 *(all-rounder), *ED10 *(similar to ED9 w/gold filter, but more refined), *EDR2 *(neutral-ish with a treble bump, excellent techincal ability for such a cheap iem), *ED3 *(bright with nice vocals and quick, tight bass).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just received my ZS3 today and am rather disappointed with it! There is rattling sound in the right ear piece, along with obvious channel imbalance in which the right ear piece is much louder than the left one. I bought it thru the KZ official store, and I am wondering if anyone have any experience with exchanging? I actually asked a friend to help me out because of my limited Chinese. I don't want to give him too much hassle...
  
 On the other hand, I can't find the ZS3 anymore in the official taobao store as well!


----------



## Podster

I'm pretty sure FiiO pulled back to stop the QC bleeding of the first run is how I understand it. Great design I think they just tried to rush to market


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> @seanwee ED3 is my recommendation for crispy speedness. ED9 is great, but I find it's treble is a bit loose.
> 
> @BananaOne Some good KZ's to start with are *ED9 *(all-rounder), *ED10 *(similar to ED9 w/gold filter, but more refined), *EDR2 *(neutral-ish with a treble bump, excellent techincal ability for such a cheap iem), *ED3 *(bright with nice vocals and quick, tight bass).
> 
> ...


 

 +1 I'm hoping that the second time around should be the charm!.....I hope!


----------



## nihontoman

well, that's bloody excellent :|


----------



## nigenarceda

That's a shame. Hope that they can they do better on their next batch. Waiting for reviews because right now I want to see if they can fair with Tennmak Pro. Sure, tennmak may be a better choice but they did say in the item's description that this was specially made for rock music. So now I'm a little intrigued.


----------



## Vishal

Mine zs3 has already been shipped.. 
I didn't know about recall. 
Hope mine has no qc issues..


----------



## RKC1

Hii friends M new here.. I know it may be old and already discussed topic... But i want to buy kz which one should i go with. 1-kz ATE. 2- kz ATE S 3- KZ ED9


PLEASE HELP


----------



## cr0wnest

My ZS3 shipped as well.. Hopefully it wont be a defective one.


----------



## 1clearhead

"QC" happens to be the biggest issue with KZ.


----------



## Vidal

rkc1 said:


> Hii friends M new here.. I know it may be old and already discussed topic... But i want to buy kz which one should i go with. 1-kz ATE. 2- kz ATE S 3- KZ ED9
> 
> 
> PLEASE HELP


 
  
 ED9 gives you the option to customise the sound with an interchangeable nozzle system. The ATE are a good earphone but the ED9 is better unless you prefer a bit more bass.


----------



## RKC1

vidal said:


> ED9 gives you the option to customise the sound with an interchangeable nozzle system. The ATE are a good earphone but the ED9 is better unless you prefer a bit more bass.



Thanq for reply... I read somewhere that ed 9 is heavy and uncomfortable during exercise use? 
And please tell is there any difference between kz ate and ate s.. Which one give clear and better output?


----------



## 1clearhead

Haha! KZ just refunded my money back from taobao on my KZ-ZS3 order! They are not taking any orders on the ZS3 until later next month.
 ----> It looks like there's going to be some repercussions at the KZ company for all the bad batches made!


----------



## hifikid245

Received my KZ ATES today and I'm surprised to find that it's a direct copy of Audio Technica ATH-IM lineup. I was a bit worried because I read somewhere that it's large but when I compared it to my ATH-IM02 they don't really looked and feel that different, I'm positive its a direct copy of the higher end ATH-IM03/04. The cable of the KZ is by far my favorite, I like it more than the cable of my ATH-IM02. 

Sound wise, -does it live up the hype? 
Probably if you compare it to $30-$50 earphones.

How about with $60-$100 earphones? Not even close, it just cant.

 Edit: I'll give it a few hours of getting used to, my initial statement about the SQ will probably change.

KZ ATES vs Xiaomi Hybrid overall SQ?
The Xiaomi Hybrids is far better in almost every aspect. Long story short, the hybrids are more precise, natural, and balance sounding. The soundstage and imaging is also better on the Hybrids. But the bass, man, the KZ rocks it will please any bass heads out there. 

Overall I think its a great value in ear earphones, I got it for around $12AUD from Gearbest and I'm loving it so far although it didn't really blown me away like the Xiaomi Hybrids did.


----------



## seanwee

hifikid245 said:


> Received my KZ ATES today and I'm surprised to find that it's a direct copy of Audio Technica ATH-IM lineup. I was a bit worried because I read somewhere that it's large but when I compared it to my ATH-IM02 they don't really looked and feel that different, I'm positive its a direct copy of the higher end ATH-IM03/04. The cable of the KZ is by far my favorite, I like it more than the cable of my ATH-IM02.
> 
> Sound wise, -does it live up the hype?
> Probably if you compare it to $30-$50 earphones.
> ...


 
 piston 2 and 3 are far better than the hybrids so.......


----------



## Willber

seanwee said:


> piston 2 and 3 are far better than the hybrids so.......


 

 And I find my ATE better than my Piston 3...


----------



## bartzky

seanwee said:


> piston 2 and 3 are far better than the hybrids so.......


 
 I own the piston 2 and the hybrid. I don't really agree with you, but find both to be better than the KZ ATE.


----------



## hifikid245

seanwee I haven't heard them yet so I can't confirm. The Hybrids on the other hand, with a tad more in the detail/clarity I think it can clash with $60-$100 earphones easily.


----------



## seanwee

bartzky said:


> I own the piston 2 and the hybrid. I don't really agree with you, but find both to be better than the KZ ATE.


 
 I prefer the piston 2 and 3 over the hybrid but YMMV


----------



## Willber

bartzky said:


> I own the piston 2 and the hybrid. I don't really agree with you, but find both to be better than the KZ ATE.


 

 I found the ATE the most difficult of all my phones to get the right tips but when I did they just clicked. But obviously, each to their own.


----------



## mebaali

Got my ZS3 order cancelled at geekbuying, was assured of full refund in a day or two.
  
 Personally, I have never encountered single QC issue with any of my KZs. It's a pity that this one failed, ZS3 looked great in their appearance and would have been my first detachable cabled IEM.
  
 Hope KZ sorts out their QC issues and comes up with a better quality (both in sound and build) product soon.


----------



## Willber

mebaali said:


> Got my ZS3 order cancelled at geekbuying, was assured of full refund in a day or two.
> 
> Personally, I have never encountered single QC issue with any of my KZs. It's a pity that ZS3 did looked great in their appearance and would have been my first detachable cabled IEM.
> 
> Hope KZ sorts out their QC issues and comes up with a better quality (both sound and build) product soon.


 

 I got the "July 10" email and an offer of a refund or replacement. I said I was happy to wait as long as the quality good. We shall see...


----------



## mebaali

willber said:


> I got the "July 10" email and an offer of a refund or replacement. I said I was happy to wait as long as the quality good. We shall see...


 
 I too got the same mail, but the impressions from those who received ZS3 (in the last 2 days) was less than sterling on their sound signature (bass centric) even with the somehwat working piece or defective 3.5 mm jack or faulty driver.
  
 I thought I would better buy something with more proven track record  (Joyroom E107 and Edifier H185 are in my radar for some time, might go for one of these)


----------



## Willber

I'm hoping the delay is to sort out quality issues. I have enough to be getting with, though, and some Monks on the way, so I don't mind the wait.


----------



## Willber

mebaali said:


> I thought I would better buy something with more proven track record  (Joyroom E107 and *Edifier H185* are in my radar for some time, might go for one of these)


 
 Hmm, they look nice - how do they compare to the Monks for SQ?


----------



## mebaali

willber said:


> Hmm, they look nice - how do they compare to the Monks for SQ?


 
 I do not own H185 yet and have got only Monk. So take this following assumption of mine with a pinch of salt, on reading various impressions (not necessarily direct comparisons), H185 appears to have more balanced sound signature and slightly more detail oriented approach (would love my Monk to have little less mid-bass while a bit more sparkle in the treble).


----------



## Willber

Thanks, the Monk sounds more my cup of tea, I'm sensitive to too much treble.


----------



## mebaali

@1clearhead - Mate, I know it is not appropriate to compare an earbud to an IEM still if possible could you shed some light on how Edifier H185 (i think you own these) fairs in comparison to some of the KZs that you own (In terms of sound signature, clarity and detail) ?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## chavez

Make KZ great again,bring back the Micro Ring.
  
  
 R.I.P.


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> I thought I would better buy something with more proven track record  (Joyroom E107 and Edifier H185 are in my radar for some time, might go for one of these)


 
 I would leave E107 (not that it`s bad) and consider some little higher priced hybrids like BK50, PMV A01 MK2, LZ A2S and some others. Or higher priced dual DD ATH-E40 or even hybrid Phantom Master 4. 
  
 Btw, have You modified Your HLSX-808 already? If not - do it  I`m having eargasm with them with little amping - DD bass is now pretty tight, fast and well controlled - "obliterates" all KZ`s I have, also modified ones. Details retrieval and clarity is just unmatched by any KZ I`ve heard to date, even ANV. Only thing to "whine" about with 808 is maybe littlebit smaller soundstage/presentation I would wish for but details I get from 808 overweigh this small thingy.


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> I would leave E107 (not that it`s bad) and consider some little higher priced hybrids like BK50, PMV A01 MK2, LZ A2S and some others. Or higher priced dual DD ATH-E40 or even hybrid Phantom Master 4.
> 
> Btw, have You modified Your HLSX-808 already? If not - do it  I`m having eargasm with them with little amping - DD bass is now pretty tight, fast and well controlled - "obliterates" all KZ`s I have, also modified ones. Details retrieval and clarity is just unmatched by any KZ I`ve heard to date, even ANV. Only thing to "whine" about with 808 is maybe littlebit smaller soundstage/presentation I would wish for but details I get from 808 overweigh this small thingy.


 
 808 sounds great with the JVC spiral dot tips (large in my case). You are spot on about soundstage, I do find them to be just about average or nothing special to write home about. I just wish I had your skilsl in recabling or reshelling (or at least i stayed near your residence so that i could get your help  ). My Havi's have developed a breakage in the middle of the cable  (it is still functioning, though)
  
 Meanwhile, all my KZs are going pretty strong. KZ R1 (2 US$ wonder) is still the boss when it comes to insane sub-bass in my small little collection of IEMs


----------



## zabunny94

i have both h185 and monk, also monk+ and h180

compared to monk, h185 has wider sound stage, but same depth and height, sound signature if i to round up to the closest KZ iem, it would be ED3 albeit with less wide soundstage

monk feels less fatiguing in my ears though


----------



## Willber

zabunny94 said:


> monk feels less fatiguing in my ears though


 
 That's what I'm looking for, thanks.


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> I just wish I had your skilsl in recabling or reshelling...


 
 You do not need reshelling or recabling to get what I`m hearing. Just close vent holes with *gel*-superglue and use Piston 2.1 original (1st gen) or Creative 930i tips and You should get very close sound to my RAW-mod 
  
 Sorry for OT KZ guys.


----------



## mebaali

zabunny94 said:


> i have both h185 and monk, also monk+ and h180
> 
> compared to monk, h185 has wider sound stage, but same depth and height, sound signature if i to round up to the closest KZ iem, it would be ED3 albeit with less wide soundstage
> 
> monk feels less fatiguing in my ears though


 
 Brilliant, thanks for your valuable impressions.


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> You do not need reshelling to get what I`m hearing. Just close vent holes with *gel*-superglue and use Piston 2.1 original (1st gen) or Creative 930i tips


 
 Reshelling part was for other phones that i have, for example your mod work on Monk was EPIC (before that ATE). I would love to have something like that out of an earbud/IEM


----------



## 1clearhead

mebaali said:


> @1clearhead - Mate, I know it is not appropriate to compare an earbud to an IEM still if possible could you shed some light on how Edifier H185 (i think you own these) fairs in comparison to some of the KZs that you own (In terms of sound signature, clarity and detail) ?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
  
 Actually, on the contrary!.....The Monks sounds a little more clear with plenty of details, while the H185 are a little more smoother with a tad bit more sub-bass. They kind of remind me of the KZ-S3's signature and soundstage. But, of course the S3's handles more power.
  
 Try looking into the TY HI-Z .....wide soundstage, crisp details, vocals, and sub-bass are epic!


----------



## mebaali

1clearhead said:


> Actually, on the contrary!.....The Monks sounds a little more clear with plenty of details, while the H185 are a little more smoother with a tad bit more sub-bass. They kind of remind me of the KZ-S3's signature and soundstage. But, of course the S3's handles more power.
> 
> Try looking into the TY HI-Z .....wide soundstage, crisp details, vocals, and sub-bass are epic!


 
 I stand corrected in that, then. As I mentioned in my post, it was purely an assumption based on few impressions that I read up on H185.
  
 I am looking for buds/IEM that are more balanced (may be a hint of warmth wouldn't be bad) and clearer sounding than any specific shape or sound signature. I remember reading mixed views on S3 (which IIRC had many variations) few months back (had split decisions from the users) but your description of TY Hi-Z seems to match my musical preference/tastes. Now I am curious to try them out.
  
 Thanks again for your impressions, mate!
 (BTW, HLSX 808 is going fantastic, these days)


----------



## CoiL

mebaali - You don`t have M+ ? Imho it is better than regular Monk and sounds closer to what You wish for. Haven`t tried TY HI-Z yet but added it to my wish-list for modifying - I still wish to make a custom dual push-pull DD + BA IEM, haven`t decided yet which drivers to use and got to figure out crossovers 
  
 Sorry, It will be last offtopic post now...


----------



## Willber

(My last OT post - the Monks I have on order are the plus.)


----------



## Vidal

On the subject of buds, anyone try the Boarseman K25?
  
 Every bit as good as the Monks and TY HiZ - I'm in the middle of recabling the Monks and TYs so I can't do a back to back comparison, but I will at some point.


----------



## vadlybareti

I just bought my 2nd ED9, now is black edition... the first one, silver, the jack connector seems broken 
 I still love the voice from ED9!
 But looks like KZ have many product come in my local store.


----------



## loomisjohnson

just when i thought i had outgrown kz, i belatedly got some ed9s--i posted some impressions on the cheap chinese thread, but i gotta tell you i'm unexpectedly impressed--they do an uncanny job of reproducing drums and female vox, tho not hyper-detailed. very good with jazz.


----------



## carltonh

loomisjohnson said:


> just when i thought i had outgrown kz, i belatedly got some ed9s--i posted some impressions on the cheap chinese thread, but i gotta tell you i'm unexpectedly impressed--they do an uncanny job of reproducing drums and female vox, tho not hyper-detailed. very good with jazz.


 

 LOL, I was in the same boat, and received the ED9 yesterday. No KZs this year, and had skipped the ED9 because the of comments about it being bright. But I don't think it is bright, The ED10 has a broader raised treble that starts even lower, maybe 5 KHz, and makes the ED10 sound not as refined in signature, even if it maybe a tad more refined in subbass.
  
 I still say that the ED8 would be the best KZ for combination of sound signature and sound quality...but it requires a stable precise fit to achieve it...which is very difficult with its design.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Hahaha! You guys are going to disagree with my revised KZ shootout so much


----------



## To.M

… looking forward to it!


----------



## loomisjohnson

carltonh said:


> LOL, I was in the same boat, and received the ED9 yesterday. No KZs this year, and had skipped the ED9 because the of comments about it being bright. But I don't think it is bright, The ED10 has a broader raised treble that starts even lower, maybe 5 KHz, and makes the ED10 sound not as refined in signature, even if it maybe a tad more refined in subbass.
> 
> I still say that the ED8 would be the best KZ for combination of sound signature and sound quality...but it requires a stable precise fit to achieve it...which is very difficult with its design.


 

 you know carlton, i like fine wine, and (on occasion) i can afford it, but sometimes you just crave a good cold beer. ergo the ed9--it just sounds good in that primal unfussy way.


----------



## Chief Stringer

carltonh said:


> LOL, I was in the same boat, and received the ED9 yesterday. No KZs this year, and had skipped the ED9 because the of comments about it being bright. But I don't think it is bright, The ED10 has a broader raised treble that starts even lower, maybe 5 KHz, and makes the ED10 sound not as refined in signature, even if it maybe a tad more refined in subbass.
> 
> I still say that the ED8 would be the best KZ for combination of sound signature and sound quality...but it requires a stable precise fit to achieve it...which is very difficult with its design.


 

 Totally agree about the peak in the 5k range, the ED10s are amazing especially at their KZ price though, burn in does help (if its just brain burn in or not dont know). Got my first pair of HDS1's on the way, hoping they sound good for Hip Hop, House, Drum & Bass / Jungle


----------



## carltonh

chief stringer said:


> Totally agree about the peak in the 5k range, the ED10s are amazing especially at their KZ price though, burn in does help (if its just brain burn in or not dont know). Got my first pair of HDS1's on the way, hoping they sound good for Hip Hop, House, Drum & Bass / Jungle


 

 Right. If I judge by:
 KZ + best basic sound quality + max comfort + EQ to improve tonal balance.... my answer is ED10.
  
 That is out of my collection of ED3-S3, ED4, S4, ED8, ED9, ED10, EDR2, ATE-S, ZN1 Mini, HSD3


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## Aural Sex

coil said:


> There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
> 
> 1) Silver ATE with vent holes and with black/silver metal cable "reliefs".
> 2) Translucent black ATE with vent holes and with black/gold metal cable "reliefs".
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi Coil.
  
  
 Between these 4 variations of the ATE, which do you like best?
  
  
  
 To the others, please also feel free to chime in.
  
  
  
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Ruben123

carltonh said:


> Right. If I judge by:
> KZ + best basic sound quality + max comfort + EQ to improve tonal balance.... my answer is ED10.
> 
> That is out of my collection of ED3-S3, ED4, S4, ED8, ED9, ED10, EDR2, ATE-S, ZN1 Mini, HSD3




I put a little bit of cotton in my brother's pair to tame the treble and for sure it's become even much better.


----------



## CoiL

aural sex said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
> ...


 
 I like 2nd version best but now I see there is a 5th version ?!? 


redcarmoose said:


> *New ATE-Hi Fi *by Knowledge Zenith


 
 Or is it old?


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> I like 2nd version best but now I see there is a 5th version ?!?
> *Or is it old?*


 

 +1 .....It looks like the old version to me.


----------



## Redcarmoose

1clearhead said:


> +1 .....It looks like the old version to me.



RQ:016NBM 

Old.


----------



## Trapok

rkc1 said:


> Thanq for reply... I read somewhere that ed 9 is heavy and uncomfortable during exercise use?
> And please tell is there any difference between kz ate and ate s.. Which one give clear and better output?


ED9 is not heavy at all you mix it up with ED8


----------



## B9Scrambler

trapok said:


> ED9 is not heavy at all you mix it up with ED8




You forgot to mention that they are also physically huge


----------



## zabunny94

ed9 is indeed heavy, only second to ed3 among my collection. don't expect it to stay in your ear while doing cardio


----------



## B9Scrambler

zabunny94 said:


> ed9 is indeed heavy, only second to ed3 among my collection. don't expect it to stay in your ear while doing cardio


 
  
 The original ED3 is deceptively heavy. Wearing them cable over-ear definitely helps.


----------



## Trapok

b9scrambler said:


> You forgot to mention that they are also physically huge


 

 For those who want to compare sizes of some KZs:

 (click on pitcure to see picture in larger format)


----------



## CoiL

My ED9 is very small and light


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> My ED9 is very small and light:rolleyes:




You only have half an ED9 Coil. Doesn't count!


----------



## Keller1

Yesterday i recieved the ZS1, today i recieved the ATE
  
 The sound quality on the ATE seems better to me, even though the ZS1 seems to have more and somewhat better Low-End, they have the worst convenience factor of any headphone i've used recently. They hurt after half an hour of use, while the ATEs are seemingly perfect in terms of convenience, barring the rubbery cable that's prone to tangling, and also have a more balanced signature overall with decent bass. Plus the extra tips.


 Needless to say, I love the ATE, the ZS1 is underwhelming in comparison.


----------



## Mellowship

keller1 said:


> Yesterday i recieved the ZS1, today i recieved the ATE
> 
> The sound quality on the ATE seems better to me, even though the ZS1 seems to have more and somewhat better Low-End, they have the worst convenience factor of any headphone i've used recently. They hurt after half an hour of use, while the ATEs are seemingly perfect in terms of convenience, barring the rubbery cable that's prone to tangling, and also have a more balanced signature overall with decent bass. Plus the extra tips.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Of all the KZs I own, I think the ATE is the best all-rounder. Great timbric resolution (especially in mids), good dynamics and very comfortable. Sonically, I still prefer the ED9 with gold nozzles (considering the right tips are used, the bass gets reasonably tamed - for me, wide bore silicone tips work the best; brass nozzles will sound good with sony hybrids but somewhat thin with wide bore tips). 
 I took a break from buying new ear-things just when I was considering pulling the trigger on the ZS1, so I don't have it, hence I cannot talk about it... But now I am getting curious about it and the new KZ with replaceable cables...
 The last two earphones I got were the Tennmak Pro and the VE Monks+, about two months ago... Both are great for their price.


----------



## Keller1

While i suppose i'm not going to be a permanent resident in this thread I have an HDS3, ZS3 and RX incoming in the following weeks. I'm going to try my best to compare them to the ATE. ( and ZS1 )


----------



## Redcarmoose

mellowship said:


> Of all the KZs I own, I think the ATE is the best all-rounder. Great timbric resolution (especially in mids), good dynamics and very comfortable. Sonically, I still prefer the ED9 with gold nozzles (considering the right tips are used, the bass gets reasonably tamed - for me, wide bore silicone tips work the best; brass nozzles will sound good with sony hybrids but somewhat thin with wide bore tips).
> I took a break from buying new ear-things just when I was considering pulling the trigger on the ZS1, so I don't have it, hence I cannot talk about it... But now I am getting curious about it and the new KZ with replaceable cables...
> The last two earphones I got were the Tennmak Pro and the VE Monks+, about two months ago... Both are great for their price.




Just received the ATE as well as the Remax RM-S1. While I see the prices for the RM-S1 are slightly higher, I feel it's a superior IEM due to the low-end detail.


----------



## zabunny94

with so many product that got a somewhagood reception, shouldn't someone make a thread for remax? i bet there's many people that interested in remax, but still afraid to pull the trigger

I'm interested in their single BA iem to be honest


----------



## B9Scrambler

zabunny94 said:


> with so many product that got a somewhagood reception, shouldn't someone make a thread for remax? i bet there's many people that interested in remax, but still afraid to pull the trigger
> 
> I'm interested in their single BA iem to be honest


 
  
 I'm a big fan of their RM-720i model. It has a somewhat odd signature, but they're very pleasing to listen to. They would also be excellent for someone with vision problems. The inline mic and control unit is massive, and the left/right channels are very easy to determine by touch only. 
  
 Would love to read more about Remax's models.


----------



## Redcarmoose

zabunny94 said:


> with so many product that got a somewhagood reception, shouldn't someone make a thread for remax? i bet there's many people that interested in remax, but still afraid to pull the trigger
> 
> I'm interested in their single BA iem to be honest




Coming from China obscurity into view I only know of two who own the RM-01 and one other member who has just placed an order. So I guess once you get three or four folks all saying the same thing, the confidence level goes up. They may be on the slight dark side, but scale up with better equipment, and like thin DACs.


----------



## zabunny94

only interested in rm-600 at the moment, seems like a bold move to sell BA iem in a swarm of single/ dual dynamic driver at it's price range

i can't find any impression of it, well at least not in english


----------



## Redcarmoose

​


zabunny94 said:


> only interested in rm-600 at the moment, seems like a bold move to sell BA iem in a swarm of single/ dual dynamic driver at it's price range
> 
> i can't find any impression of it, well at least not in english




Is that the 600m. I have some one calling me when it's in. Listened to the RM-702 today, not bad but not something I want. Amazingly small but there was a distorted area of the lower mid that I just knew I could not live with. Also they were pink. Lol


----------



## Redcarmoose

zabunny94 said:


> only interested in rm-600 at the moment, seems like a bold move to sell BA iem in a swarm of single/ dual dynamic driver at it's price range
> 
> i can't find any impression of it, well at least not in english







If your talking about the RM600M there is a member who loves them.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/633511/pictures-of-your-portable-rig-part-xvi/20400#post_12681880


----------



## Redcarmoose

Tomorrow I'm trying the RM515 and RM303, but don't have my hopes up.


----------



## loomisjohnson

zabunny94 said:


> with so many product that got a somewhagood reception, shouldn't someone make a thread for remax? i bet there's many people that interested in remax, but still afraid to pull the trigger
> 
> I'm interested in their single BA iem to be honest


 

 i got the 600m a few weeks ago--it's a mixed bag. very, very loud and very very bright--not for the treble sensitive. very good low end punch for a single ba (almost too much with comply tips). overall clarity is very good; if you could tame the brightness with eq it could be a winner; certainly a lot of iem for the money.


----------



## Redcarmoose

loomisjohnson said:


> i got the 600m a few weeks ago--it's a mixed bag. very, very loud and very very bright--not for the treble sensitive. very good low end punch for a single ba (almost too much with comply tips). overall clarity is very good; if you could tame the brightness with eq it could be a winner; certainly a lot of iem for the money.




Thank-you for the impression, sorry to derail thread, I'll leave now. Lol


----------



## Aural Sex

coil said:


> I like 2nd version best but now I see there is a 5th version ?!?
> Or is it old?


 
  
  
  
 Thanks for the feedback Coil. The one that I have is the 2nd so cheers!


----------



## 5835

My KZ ATE cable broke when it got caught on something. I'm pretty happy with them, should I order them again or something else?
  
http://i.imgur.com/dckbWct.jpg


----------



## B9Scrambler

5835 said:


> My KZ ATE cable broke when it got caught on something. I'm pretty happy with them, should I order them again or something else?
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/dckbWct.jpg


 
  
 That sucks. Might as well get another one. They're pretty inexpensive!


----------



## CoiL

loomisjohnson said:


> zabunny94 said:
> 
> 
> > with so many product that got a somewhagood reception, shouldn't someone make a thread for remax? i bet there's many people that interested in remax, but still afraid to pull the trigger
> ...


 
 I`ve also been wondering about remax. I think making a thread would be good idea since I just read good impressions about 610D too: http://www.head-fi.org/products/deggod-remax-610d-high-performance-earphones-in-ear-headphones-patent-designed-with-high-tensile-resistance-headsets-3-5mm-jack-earbuds-for-smartphones-tablets-mp3-mp4-players-black/reviews/16366
  
 Sorry about OT. Don`t own any remax IEM`s so this is not promotion or hyping post, just wondering if this is good contestant agains KZ`s


----------



## Redcarmoose

coil said:


> I`ve also been wondering about remax. I think making a thread would be good idea since I just read good impressions about 610D too: http://www.head-fi.org/products/deggod-remax-610d-high-performance-earphones-in-ear-headphones-patent-designed-with-high-tensile-resistance-headsets-3-5mm-jack-earbuds-for-smartphones-tablets-mp3-mp4-players-black/reviews/16366
> 
> Sorry about OT. Don`t own any remax IEM`s so this is not promotion or hyping post, just wondering if this is good contestant agains KZ`s




Well, if anything they are a nice complement to each other. I don't know if it's a challenge as to which is always best but slightly different aspects of this new and growing Chinese value IEM market. It's also a slight breath of fresh air in the onslaught of crappy sounding junk being made in China and exported to the whole world. I can promise you the posts I have made are sincere but as always they will get validated when others take the chance on a purchase.


----------



## zabunny94

5835

if you're ordering new ATE right now, chances are you're not getting the same unit as the one you had since there's 4 version of ATE


----------



## kiler

zabunny94 said:


> @5835
> 
> if you're ordering new ATE right now, chances are you're not getting the same unit as the one you had since there's 4 version of ATE


 
 Also I think that units nowadays are notoriously darker and with less detail than earlier units am I correct?


----------



## zabunny94

kiler haven't tried the new batch, but the lack of hole near the nozzles will definitely affecting the sound right?

which reminds me that LG quat beat 3 differences with the limited tuned by AKG version is basically a hole near the nozzle too


----------



## nihontoman

Just got my KZ ZS3 just now and have been listening to it for about 30 minutes. so these are VERY first impressions.
  
 I got lucky - mine are perfect. no lemons (thank god).
  
 As for the sound, I'm listening to them from DX50 and here's what I hear:



 They are a bit boomy with bad recordings. with some high quality stuff, (Amber rubarth for example) they are excellent. they are V shaped and are quite energetic. also, they are quite fast - they do resolve tool - Parabola guitars VERY well.
  
 soundstage is more than I expected, pretty wide, even compared to the xb90ex. positioning is also good.  overall, I'm pretty happy. if the boominess goes down, this'll be my go to beater


----------



## nihontoman

ok, these have more sub-bass rumble than sony XB90EX, and if you've heard how those sound, that's saying something. the thing is, they rumble as they should, they do not overpower  and don't introduce distortions to other frequencie ​. the boominess factor shows itself with lower quality recordings only. basically, these are VERY good for hearing those base lines. 
  
 mids are quite interesting - female and male vocals sound nice, sax also sounds nice. some violin recording don't sound that good, but some others do...
  
 highs are forward and energetic. they are not harsh, but nor are they subdued OR that refined for that matter 
  
 anyways, I'll recommend these to anyone who wants fun detailed iems. these have the factor of making you want your music collection all over again so they pass


----------



## vapman

nihontoman said:


> ok, these have more sub-bass rumble than sony XB90EX, and if you've heard how those sound, that's saying something. the thing is, they rumble as they should, they do not overpower  and don't introduce distortions to other frequencie ​. the boominess factor shows itself with lower quality recordings only. basically, these are VERY good for hearing those base lines.
> 
> mids are quite interesting - female and male vocals sound nice, sax also sounds nice. some violin recording don't sound that good, but some others do...
> 
> ...




Even when amped and pushed to the limit?

The v2 transparent ATE was about on par with the 90ex when it was amped and EQd


----------



## nihontoman

vapman said:


> Even when amped and pushed to the limit?
> 
> The v2 transparent ATE was about on par with the 90ex when it was amped and EQd


 
  
  
 I don't usually touch EQ. this is unequalized as is straight out of the DX50. I'm pretty sure none of them need more juive than what the DX50 can provide. and yes - it has more sub-base compared to xb90ex. the mid-base slam is also a bit more, nothing dramatic. it is more sparkly compared to the xb90ex and the mids are maybe a tiny bit recessed, but it really depends on song... I'm enjoying it right now and the boominess is going away bit by bit (that, or I'm adjusting to I. will know which one tomorrow)


----------



## redcrumb1

Woah this is a huge trend. Can someone just point me to a reputable place I can buy a pair of kz ate in Singapore? Thank in advance!


----------



## 1clearhead

> UPDATE on the *KZ-ZS3*


 
  
 When my KZ-ZS3 was boomy from the right side, I knew something was wrong. When I looked inside the right nozzle the long blue tube (pictured below as an example) was out of place, so it caused the boom effect and the DD was sitting outside the square housing. Many of them are still recalled because of this. You still can not buy them direct from KZ, but "BEWARE", a lot of third party sellers are still trying to get rid of them. This is why KZ is recalling them. According to them, they suppose to sound a lot more balanced with transparent MIDS and highs with no such boom effect, what so ever, and that's exactly how the left side were sounding like to me, while in the other hand, the right side sounded pretty much like your average budget DD. I'll definitely be waiting for the new batch, once they launch it through the main KZ website.
  





 I would suggest to anyone here *not to buy them* until their main store carries them before any other 3rd party merchant does.
  
 This is what their main page says in Chinese:  *此商品已下架*, English: *This product has been off the shelf*.
  
 This is their main website store on taobao, which you can not purchase the KZ ZS3 for the moment......
https://world.tmall.com/item/533678577946.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.SvKiX8&id=533678577946&cm_id=140105335569ed55e27b&abbucket=4&sku_properties=5919063:6536025
  
 So, be careful for all the defective ones still out there!......Just looking out!


----------



## nihontoman

did you open it up and look inside? because I could never see past the red filters on mine 
  
 as for boominess, it is the same in both ears and I'm pretty sure mine are supposed to be like that. they just sound like bassy earphones...


----------



## redcrumb1

Thanks for the advise 1clearhead, how abt the kz ate by the way? are they stable?


----------



## mints

i bought a kz hds3 before, found it underwhelming
 which in turn turned me off from trying other kz products


----------



## B9Scrambler

mints said:


> i bought a kz hds3 before, found it underwhelming
> which in turn turned me off from trying other kz products


 
  
 Don't blame you. The HDS3 is pretty average sounding and quite underwhelming for a KZ. Not the best earphone to judge them by in my opinion. If you decide to give them another chance, some good places to start imo would be with the ED9, ED10, ED3m "The Acme", HDS1, or ZN1 Mini.


----------



## zabunny94

mints you should have started with ate or ed9 like everyone else

also, if you're willing to give kz another chance, try ed9 and forget the rest


----------



## 1clearhead

nihontoman said:


> did you open it up and look inside? because I could never see past the red filters on mine
> 
> as for boominess, it is the same in both ears and I'm pretty sure mine are supposed to be like that. they just sound like bassy earphones...


 
  
 Yup! I carefully dissected both to see what was wrong before returning them. awful QC!....the least to say before returning them, as I quote, "When I looked inside the right nozzle the long blue tube (pictured below as an example) was out of place, so it caused the boom effect and the DD was sitting outside the square housing.".....But, I truly did open these to see what was going on inside and I didn't want to give the wrong impression for everyone *to do the same to their housing* for the sake of not getting their money back. I read many Chinese reviews from taobao website so far translated from Chinese to English stating that they're transparent and well balanced, others claiming they are just plain bass oriented, and mostly all customers were complaining about the imbalance (left or right sounding bass-heavy, while the other side was transparent or clear). Truth be told, I still want a pair, but not until the company okay's the next batch.
  
 .....and as I said; just looking out for everyone to be careful.
  


redcrumb1 said:


> Thanks for the advise 1clearhead, how abt the kz ate by the way? are they stable?


 
  
 According to 'CoiL', myself, and many others that bought them?....They're are a keeper!


----------



## nihontoman

1clearhead said:


> Yup! I carefully dissected both to see what was wrong before returning them. awful QC!....the least to say before returning them, as I quote, "When I looked inside the right nozzle the long blue tube (pictured below as an example) was out of place, so it caused the boom effect and the DD was sitting outside the square housing.".....But, I truly did open these to see what was going on inside and I didn't want to give the wrong impression for everyone *to do the same to their housing* for the sake of not getting their money back. I read many Chinese reviews from taobao website so far translated from Chinese to English stating that they're transparent and well balanced, others claiming they are just plain bass oriented, and mostly all customers were complaining about the imbalance (left or right sounding bass-heavy, while the other side was transparent or clear). Truth be told, I still want a pair, but not until the company okay's the next batch.
> 
> .....and as I said; just looking out for everyone to be careful.
> 
> ...


 
 hmm, these are definitely not balanced :/


----------



## NickDella

Is the rock zircon a significant upgrade from the KZ ate? All I want is clarity, the sound signature usually doesn't matter but I do have a strong dislike of piercing highs. I've read people saying that the zircon crushes the ATE in every which way and I've also heard that the ATEs have a more hard hitting and energetic sound whereas the zircons sound too warm in comparison. If anyone can inform me on how these compare, it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## loomisjohnson

nickdella said:


> Is the rock zircon a significant upgrade from the KZ ate? All I want is clarity, the sound signature usually doesn't matter but I do have a strong dislike of piercing highs. I've read people saying that the zircon crushes the ATE in every which way and I've also heard that the ATEs have a more hard hitting and energetic sound whereas the zircons sound too warm in comparison. If anyone can inform me on how these compare, it would be greatly appreciated.


 

 purely my (apparently minority) opinion, but the ate is vastly superior--to my ears for some reason the zircon has a weird unnatural sound with giant bass, clear but metallic sounding highs and essentially no midrange. the ate otoh is pretty balanced, with good overall clarity and coherence--there's a mildly enhaced bass, but no part of the spectrum really intrudes. i wouldn't say the ates are harder hitting--the zircon goes for a unsubtle low end wham.


----------



## NickDella

loomisjohnson said:


> purely my (apparently minority) opinion, but the ate is vastly superior--to my ears for some reason the zircon has a weird unnatural sound with giant bass, clear but metallic sounding highs and essentially no midrange. the ate otoh is pretty balanced, with good overall clarity and coherence--there's a mildly enhaced bass, but no part of the spectrum really intrudes. i wouldn't say the ates are harder hitting--the zircon goes for a unsubtle low end wham.


 My dad bought the zircon so I'll get to test it out soon. Also, do you agree that the ATE is the best all around budget IEM? I think that there has to be something better under 30$ because apple earpods sound better than the ATE and for some reason people hate them... I'm thinking KZ zs1, brainwavz delta, or some cheap ATH IEM. The ed9 are out of the question; I hate piercing treble


----------



## loomisjohnson

nickdella said:


> My dad bought the zircon so I'll get to test it out soon. Also, do you agree that the ATE is the best all around budget IEM? I think that there has to be something better under 30$ because apple earpods sound better than the ATE and for some reason people hate them... I'm thinking KZ zs1, brainwavz delta, or some cheap ATH IEM. The ed9 are out of the question; I hate piercing treble


 

 inickdella, there's a good "best $1-25 iem thread" and an even better best <$100 chinese iem thread which is exactly in point. if you're asking for my personal opinion, i would not rate the ate the best all around budget iem--depending upon you price range i prefer the joyroom e107 ($10; amazingly engaging, accurate but not deep bass); tennmak dulcimer ($19, but sometimes on sale for less; big low end and great clarity overall); tennmak pro (neutral and very refined; around $22); the musicmaker tw1 i just got also look like winners for around $22). others tout the tennmak piano as a bassier tennmak pro (haven't heard 'em myself); also the musicmaker maple (likewise).


----------



## NickDella

loomisjohnson said:


> inickdella, there's a good "best $1-25 iem thread" and an even better best <$100 chinese iem thread which is exactly in point. if you're asking for my personal opinion, i would not rate the ate the best all around budget iem--depending upon you price range i prefer the joyroom e107 ($10; amazingly engaging, accurate but not deep bass); tennmak dulcimer ($19, but sometimes on sale for less; big low end and great clarity overall); tennmak pro (neutral and very refined; around $22); the musicmaker tw1 i just got also look like winners for around $22). others tout the tennmak piano as a bassier tennmak pro (haven't heard 'em myself); also the musicmaker maple (likewise).


 Thanks! Also, I despise Apple. I just happen to think that that the earpods sound better than the ATE. I still prefer the ATE because of the deep bass and sound isolation which is nowhere to be found on the earpods.


----------



## carltonh

I tried an experiment that I bet no one else has done. I jogged 3 miles with the KZ ED8. However, I did use over-the-ear guides, which was the only thing that made it possible. Result: It worked well until my ears were full of sweat, then I had difficulty with the angle and seal.


----------



## mints

b9scrambler said:


> Don't blame you. The HDS3 is pretty average sounding and quite underwhelming for a KZ. Not the best earphone to judge them by in my opinion. If you decide to give them another chance, some good places to start imo would be with the ED9, ED10, ED3m "The Acme", HDS1, or ZN1 Mini.


 
  


zabunny94 said:


> @mints you should have started with ate or ed9 like everyone else
> 
> also, if you're willing to give kz another chance, try ed9 and forget the rest


 
  
 yo it was on sale lol
 i guess i'll give kz a try again
 is ed9 good for alternative, psychedelic rock, hip-hop, r&b, pop, synthwave music?
 i'm willing to try others that complement those ^


----------



## B9Scrambler

mints said:


> yo it was on sale lol
> i guess i'll give kz a try again
> is ed9 good for alternative, psychedelic rock, hip-hop, r&b, pop, synthwave music?
> i'm willing to try others that complement those ^




ED3m would be better for those genres (esp. Hip-hop, rnb, etc.). The ED9 can get a bit harsh with some of those old recordings.


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> ED3m would be better for those genres (esp. Hip-hop, rnb, etc.). The ED9 can get a bit harsh with some of those old recordings.


 
 Gold filters work fairly well with Hip-hop but with the brass, sub-bass rolls off way too early, even with bass boosted eq (talking about ED9).


----------



## 1clearhead

Another update on ZS3's!
  
 This Chinese guy from taobao seems to like his ZS3's, but he is kind of baffled on what he saw when he cracked it open......and he still claims they are worth their price? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*Chinese review:* 绝逼国产良心东西，左边塞子有点问题二话不说就换了客服也给好评，别犹豫了170绝对值得。（下图是左耳坏是那个让大家看看里面的东西）
  
*Translated to English:* Domestic conscience must force things, apart from anything else on the left side of the plug a little problem for a customer service but also to praise, do not hesitate 170 worth. (The figure is worse is that the left ear let everyone see things inside)
  





  The driver is lose and out of place and the tube (or, tuning port) is basically bent!
  
 Guys, I'm waiting for a reply from KZ for their next batch. You're taking a BIG chance on buying these with their QC issues. I rather be patient first, than to be urgent and take the risk!


----------



## CoiL

I would just simply replace that pipe with copper pipe (which can be used to tune sound signature btw) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You could even make a winding inside that pipe to use custom filter tips.
 KZ - why didn`t You use all those possibilities? 
  
 If I`m going to buy these someday (that`s a BIG IF), then probably only for the shells for modding.


----------



## 1clearhead

*Good news!*
 KZ just got back to me and said the new non-defective KZ-ZS3's will go out on the last week of July.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> I would just simply replace that pipe with copper pipe (which can be used to tune sound signature btw)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are the "MOD MAN"....please show pics if you do get them and do these changes!


----------



## kiler

The question is, can we truly trust KZ that these will be in fact non defective ZS3? I hope so, because the idea behind them is good, the construction not so great tho


----------



## redcrumb1

Where does everyone get their kz ate? I'm looking to order from Singapore


----------



## CoiL

There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
  
 1) Silver ATE with vent holes and with black/gold metal cable "reliefs". Driver inside has *red* plastic housing.
 This is my first version:

  
 2) Translucent black ATE with vent holes and with *silver/gold* metal cable "reliefs". Driver inside has *red* plastic housing.
 This is my second version: 

  
 3) Translucent black ATE without vent holes and with *black/gold* metal cable "reliefs". Driver inside should have *blue *plastic housing (not 100% sure).
 4) Translucent black ATE-S with black memory wires and with red plastic cable "reliefs".
  
 1st and 2nd generation ATE should be using same drivers and difference in sound basically came only from different housing material.
 3rd generation ATE should have blue housing drivers inside and don`t have vent holes on housing - this is where ATE got different feedback from several ppl as I remember.
 4th generation ATE-S looks clearly different by cables and should have bassier sound according  to many ppl. Information about driver housing colour is missing to me and vent holes seems also to be a mixed bag - some have them some don`t, at least I know so.
  
 Hope this makes clearer which ATE to get. From my personal experience and others impressions 2nd generation ATE seems to be best. Idk if there still are any available though. Maybe ask seller before buying?


----------



## zabunny94

the difference between the 2nd and 3rd version is most distinguishable on the splitter

the 2nd version splitter are the one without strain relief, like the ed3

the 3rd version splitter looks like ed9/e3m


----------



## obelisk619

coil said:


> There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
> 
> 1) Silver ATE with vent holes and with black/gold metal cable "reliefs". Driver inside has *red* plastic housing.
> This is my first version:
> ...


 
  
 I'm just quite confused if mine is the 2nd or 3rd version, coz mine has red housing on the driver, with vent holes but with black/gold metal cable reliefs and the square like splitter, NOT the "Y" shaped one.


----------



## Ruben123

Probably there are not even "versions", just the same earphone with now and then different materials. At least it seems.


----------



## kiler

ruben123 said:


> Probably there are not even "versions", just the same earphone with now and then different materials. At least it seems.


 
 Or just shoddy quality control once again haha I really enjoy my translucent ATE tho


----------



## zabunny94

obelisk619
yours is the 2nd version


----------



## redcrumb1

Woah thanks coil! That's a whole load of info. definately save me the trouble of getting the defective ones :thumbsup_tone2::thumbsup_tone2::thumbsup_tone2:


----------



## 1clearhead

redcrumb1 said:


> *Woah thanks coil! That's a whole load of info. definately save me the trouble of getting the defective ones* :thumbsup_tone2::thumbsup_tone2::thumbsup_tone2:


 

 Are you referring to 'CoiL' about the ZS3's? Or the ATE's? .....I'm so confused. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 .....the ATE's aren't really defective.


----------



## Redcarmoose

1clearhead said:


> Another update on ZS3's!
> 
> This Chinese guy from taobao seems to like his ZS3's, but he is kind of baffled on what he saw when he cracked it open......and he still claims they are worth their price? :blink:
> 
> ...


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> redcrumb1 said:
> 
> 
> > *Woah thanks coil! That's a whole load of info. definately save me the trouble of getting the defective ones* :thumbsup_tone2::thumbsup_tone2::thumbsup_tone2:
> ...


 
 ATE´s aren`t defective but they do have sometimes problem with vent holes being full of glue or plastic-melt. 
 After 2nd iteration dirvers are probably littlebit different (blue housing ones).


obelisk619 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
> ...


 
 My bet is that Your ATE is 2nd version due to red housing drivers.
  
 Here they should still sell translucent black ATE with silver/gold metal cable "reliefs" with red housing drivers.
 At least they have pictures of that version. Ask before buying to confirm: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-KZ-ATE-S-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For/32579230324.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.364.fIiQXM&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_1_10037_10017_407_10033_406_10032_9999,searchweb201603_2&btsid=b2a97f9f-d415-4fb6-9505-a7078af25434


----------



## Forty6

Carousel .


----------



## Tadamn

1clearhead said:


> Are you referring to 'CoiL' about the ZS3's? Or the ATE's? .....I'm so confused.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Are you sure about that? My roommate shared a completely different experience.


----------



## mints

@B9Scrambler ed3m it is
 this the link?
  
 all this talk about defective units 50/50
 kz a bad influence
 teaching people to gamble


----------



## Vidal

KZ Earphones were the first Chinese brand earphones I bought, ED9. Since then I've moved onto other brands.
  
 To me this is a company I have a great deal of love for, but they're basically becoming an Alfa Romeo of the earphone world. Until they sort out their QC issues I won't try their new products.


----------



## crabdog

vidal said:


> KZ Earphones were the first Chinese brand earphones I bought, ED9. Since then I've moved onto other brands.
> 
> To me this is a company I have a great deal of love for, but they're basically becoming an Alfa Romeo of the earphone world. Until they sort out their QC issues I won't try their new products.



Heh same for me started with kd9


----------



## obelisk619

coil said:


> ATE´s aren`t defective but they do have sometimes problem with vent holes being full of glue or plastic-melt.
> After 2nd iteration dirvers are probably littlebit different (blue housing ones).
> My bet is that Your ATE is 2nd version due to red housing drivers.
> 
> ...


 
 After searching, yeah I think I have the 2nd version. Just curious to know the differences between all versions coz I've only tried ate vs ate-s so far.


----------



## CoiL

obelisk619 said:


> ...I've only tried ate vs ate-s so far.


 
 And what are their differences? Sorry if You already posted about it, I`m not so active in this thread anymore and maybe missed Your comparison.


----------



## obelisk619

coil said:


> And what are their differences? Sorry if You already posted about it, I`m not so active in this thread anymore and maybe missed Your comparison.


 
  
 Don't worry I didn't post any comparison also.

 as for the differences, I'd say the ate-s is better than the latter in terms of mids and the bass is less muddy. The highs are more pronounced though just a tad bit, might even not notice it sometimes.

 but for some weird reason, I like the ATE more, it's v shaped sq is just right for my ears.


----------



## NickDella

Just got to try out the Rock Zircon. I'll be comparing the zircon and the KZ ate.

First impressions (zircon) - The vocals are clear, crisp, and loud. I've heard that these have a V shaped sound signature, but that's not what it sounded like. The second thing I noticed was the bass. When it first hit I was very impressed. Bass heads would be more than satisfied. While the bass has a solid presence, it doesn't overlap the mids and highs (if so, just a little bit). The mids and lows really stuck out while the highs seemed a bit more distant, but they were still very clear. There was a little bit of harshness/silibance but that's expected before burn in. 

Compared to the KZ ate - The zircon crushes the ATE in every way: Design, comfort, and sound. The ATE sounds muddy compared to the zircon, It's not as comfortable, it's grippy cable makes it a nightmare to untangle, and the included ear tips are awful.

Don't forget that the ATE is still great for its price... the zircon is just better.


----------



## habarabadabas

Just askin', my ED9 just got defective recently after a year of use, and now im currently waiting for my joyroom e103 to be delivered. Do anyone here have any impressions about the E103? Will it be a great replacement for the ED9? Im also torn between having the ATE's or the Zircon. I mostly listen to chill step, pop, rock, and classical music. Which one would be better?


----------



## zabunny94

i have the zircon, ate and e103

e103 sounds like ate with sharper high, it is also very quiet without amp

also, go with zircon because at this point, you don't even know which version of Ate that you would get if you buy ate

ps: i doubt that clasical music would sounds right with zircon with that amount bass though as i don't listen to clasical music, so I'm not really sure too


----------



## zabunny94

i have the zircon, ate and e103

e103 sounds like ate with sharper high, it is also very quiet without amp

also, go with zircon because at this point, you don't even know which version of Ate that you would get if you buy ate

ps: i doubt that clasical music would sounds right with zircon with that amount bass though as i don't listen to clasical music, so I'm not really sure too


----------



## Vidal

habarabadabas said:


> Just askin', my ED9 just got defective recently after a year of use, and now im currently waiting for my joyroom e103 to be delivered. Do anyone here have any impressions about the E103? Will it be a great replacement for the ED9? Im also torn between having the ATE's or the Zircon. I mostly listen to chill step, pop, rock, and classical music. Which one would be better?




I reckon you need to be looking at a hybrid as that's pretty varied genres, Zircon won't really work with that mixture. Takstar Inping H60 might work out as its more monitor than consumer sound profile, there's also the Macaw RT10s. 

In the hybrids BK50 or **** UES are my entry level favourites.


----------



## kaiteck

coil said:


> And what are their differences? Sorry if You already posted about it, I`m not so active in this thread anymore and maybe missed Your comparison.


 
 For me, I prefer ATE-S. It is bassier and sounds a bit darker which suits my personal taste, so I just sold my ate.


----------



## habarabadabas

Thanks for the suggestions. I've listened to the Macaw GT100S from a friend and i was really impressed with the soundstage and the treble. The only drawback would be the weight of those IEMs. Too bad, I couldn't go far on IEMs above 30 usd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Anyway, my E103 will probably be here next week. I also checked on what was wrong with my ed9. Luckily it was just bad cable.


----------



## crabdog

New KZ?


----------



## CoiL

Hmmm... polycarbonate should be quite strong and not prone to breaking/shattering into pieces... but... what` s the point? Just to sell more under "new thing" advertising? I wonder if it has same drivers as ATE-S or older ATE? Wiring seems to be from 2nd/3rd gen ATE. About sound changed by this material - can be possible and result should be brighter more detailed sound. I know from modding experience how nozzle material can change sound quality and signature but difference between two plastic - might not be so noticeable.


----------



## crabdog

coil said:


> Hmmm... polycarbonate should be quite strong and not prone to breaking/shattering into pieces... but... what` s the point? Just to sell more under "new thing" advertising? I wonder if it has same drivers as ATE-S or older ATE? Wiring seems to be from 2nd/3rd gen ATE. About sound changed by this material - can be possible and result should be brighter more detailed sound. I know from modding experience how nozzle material can change sound quality and signature but difference between two plastic - might not be so noticeable.


 
 Still don't have any original ATE so I don't know if the specs have changed. Maybe they're just throwing these out there to take everyone's mind off the QC issues of the ZS3?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Frequency range: 20-2000HZ
 Impedance: 16Ω
 Sensitivity: 106 dB
 Distortion: 1%
 Speaker diameter: 8mm
 Cable length: 1.2M


----------



## zabunny94

the new ATR looks like ATE's ugly little brother... the packaging looks nice though, seems like they're using different driver from the ATE

btw, just impulse buying remax 610D when i see it in a store. nicest $6 I've ever spent on earphones. looks like I'm starting to liking V-shaped sound again and the sound really reminds me to philips she3590(which extremely v shaped in my memory)

also, build quality is on par with piston basic, and you get a small pouch with it.


----------



## CoiL

zabunny94 said:


> seems like they're using different driver from the ATE


 
 What makes You say that?


----------



## zabunny94

physically different i guess, not sure though...


----------



## CoiL

Physically different how? By what? Pics? Advertisement pics? If latter, then they are by no way something reliable to say "they have different drivers".


----------



## kiler

Yeah exactly , unless they advertise it would be really doubtfull that they would change the driver


----------



## 1clearhead

I think KZ is getting "too repetitive"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anybody has a number count on that same housing? .....Maybe their seventh attempt?


----------



## RKC1

Can u compare kz ate with leEco cdla?


----------



## Sazu

Hi Im new on head-fi, like this is my first post
 I got the KZ ATE and with open back mod it sounds great, just wondering how did people remove the grill on top of the drivers in order to put it in a whole in the top plate casing. Thanks for any help.


----------



## Willber

sazu said:


> Hi Im new on head-fi, like this is my first post
> I got the KZ ATE and with open back mod it sounds great, just wondering how did people remove the grill on top of the drivers in order to put it in a whole in the top plate casing. Thanks for any help.


 

 It's a separate grill they had, don't touch the drivers!


----------



## CoiL

sazu said:


> ... just wondering how did people remove the grill on top of the drivers in order to put it in a whole in the top plate casing.


 
 Open enclosure, pull away the golden grill along the wire, desolder cable from driver, pull that golden grill out from cable, resolder cable and put that grill wherever&however You wish


----------



## Sazu

Yeah the problem I see is on my pair their seems to be glue keeping the golden grill in place, it's annoying so I'm gonna try dislogging it from the glue, it seems to just be some hot glue gun glue. Really wish they didn't put in glue around it


----------



## Forty6

Hi , been having used the ED9 for quite some time and been very pleased about it , is there any others make , model of the same kind have similar performance lever / on par or even better to those of sound produced by the ED9 ? 
Not over the ear type iem or big cans please , but KZ or any other CN made iem priced not over the top , but on the similar price range .

Currently I been using the galaxy note with sound blaster E5 on the ED9. 



Any advice would be very much appreciated . TQ


----------



## westsenkovec

Long time ago, when I was trying out the different ear tips for my KZ ATEs the metal mesh fell out. I was on the go so I somehow jammed them in there. Of course, the mesh got bent :rolleyes: 

Today I was cleaning them and instead of using a needle I used a q-tip and now the mesh is cloged with earwax. Will there be noticeable sound diference if I remove the mesh? Also, is there a better way to clean them? I clean my ears every day and the nozzles still get dirty.


----------



## kaiteck

westsenkovec said:


> Long time ago, when I was trying out the different ear tips for my KZ ATEs the metal mesh fell out. I was on the go so I somehow jammed them in there. Of course, the mesh got bent
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 mesh? Nozzles got dirty? Whut. Wow, this whole year I've never cleaned the nozzles before. I only clean the eartips.


----------



## westsenkovec

kaiteck said:


> mesh? Nozzles got dirty? Whut. Wow, this whole year I've never cleaned the nozzles before. I only clean the eartips.



Yeah, usually that's enough but I used the foam tips while running and they don't stay in place. I think the nozzle protrude past the foam tip. The silicone tips keep falling out. What tips can I use as a replacment?


----------



## kaiteck

westsenkovec said:


> Yeah, usually that's enough but I used the foam tips while running and they don't stay in place. I think the nozzle protrude past the foam tip. The silicone tips keep falling out. What tips can I use as a replacment?


 I use the silicone tips. It doesnt fall out at all. might be becoz im using it with earguide and shirt clip. I wouldn't like using foam on running.. Imagine the sweat absorbed into ur eartip eek


----------



## westsenkovec

kaiteck said:


> I use the silicone tips. It doesnt fall out at all. might be becoz im using it with earguide and shirt clip. I wouldn't like using foam on running.. Imagine the sweat absorbed into ur eartip eek




I thought that would be a problem but it isn't because the KZ foam tips are not like regular foam tips. I can't get a good seel with the silicone tips. I used the ATEs for runing because that was my cheapest pair of earphones. I ordered a pair of sport earphones just for running.


----------



## vegetaleb

westsenkovec said:


> I thought that would be a problem but it isn't because the KZ foam tips are not like regular foam tips. I can't get a good seel with the silicone tips. I used the ATEs for runing because that was my cheapest pair of earphones. I ordered a pair of sport earphones just for running.


 
  
 Same here, the ATEs are the best for running and all kind of sports thanks to the memory wires, they have a very good sound quality and clear details, though the bass can be a bit too high.
 I hope the KZ ZS3 have less bass


----------



## cr0wnest

Theres a KZ ATR that just popped up some days ago. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Original-KZ-ATR-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-HIFI-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super-Bass/1825606_32698707177.html 

Looks the same as the ATE except with different bass tuning? It also has the vent port according to the picture.


----------



## Caipirina

cr0wnest said:


> Theres a KZ ATR that just popped up some days ago. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-New-Original-KZ-ATR-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earphones-HIFI-Stereo-Sport-Earphone-Super-Bass/1825606_32698707177.html
> 
> Looks the same as the ATE except with different bass tuning? It also has the vent port according to the picture.


 

 Anyone else notice that they seem to shift to a new logo? Initially I was confused when I saw it on the ATR page .. but then the sweet mailman brought my ZS3s .. and they have BOTH logos on the box 
  


 Listening to them right and now and really liking what I am hearing. But not a comparison set up yet ... too much new sh!t to wade through


----------



## crabdog

caipirina said:


> Anyone else notice that they seem to shift to a new logo? Initially I was confused when I saw it on the ATR page .. but then the sweet mailman brought my ZS3s .. and they have BOTH logos on the box
> 
> 
> 
> Listening to them right and now and really liking what I am hearing. But not a comparison set up yet ... too much new sh!t to wade through


 
 Don't keep us waiting too long.


----------



## Caipirina

crabdog said:


> Don't keep us waiting too long.


 

 No one else has done a review yet? I am also known as 'brass ears'  I know when I like something and I can detect bad IEMs ... but all that fancy talk .. well, let's see ..


----------



## crabdog

caipirina said:


> No one else has done a review yet? I am also known as 'brass ears'  I know when I like something and I can detect bad IEMs ... but all that fancy talk .. well, let's see ..


 
 Heh everyone else got a faulty pair or had them recalled before delivery.


----------



## Caipirina

crabdog said:


> Heh everyone else got a faulty pair or had them recalled before delivery.


 

 Wow, seriously? Mine sound very fine right now, working on both ears ... nice 'bassy' fun phones. (Usually not a big basshead, but for workout stuff, yes, pls) They also fit well, which is rare for me (The KZ ATE are still an issue for me) 
  
 Need to compare with ZS1, which I have not really given any love yet.


----------



## kiedis

caipirina said:


> Anyone else notice that they seem to shift to a new logo? Initially I was confused when I saw it on the ATR page .. but then the sweet mailman brought my ZS3s .. and they have BOTH logos on the box
> 
> 
> 
> Listening to them right and now and really liking what I am hearing. But not a comparison set up yet ... too much new sh!t to wade through


 
  
 Where did you buy yours from, mate? I ordered through GeekBuying back in June and they're saying they still don't have stock after the recall, so they are sending me the ATE-S instead.
  
 Still wouldn't mind picking up a pair of the ZS3s


----------



## Caipirina

kiedis said:


> Where did you buy yours from, mate? I ordered through GeekBuying back in June and they're saying they still don't have stock after the recall, so they are sending me the ATE-S instead.
> 
> Still wouldn't mind picking up a pair of the ZS3s


 

 From AliExpress, ordered July 1st


----------



## kiler

Great to hear that, what other KZ models do you have for comparison?


----------



## Deb1995

Has anyone got  KZ ATR?


----------



## vapman

I'm very curious to find out if the ATR is new.
 I was a big fan of the ATE lineup.


----------



## Caipirina

kiler said:


> Great to hear that, what other KZ models do you have for comparison?


 

 Assuming that question was directed at me  
  
 Currently with me I also have the ZS1,  the EDR2 and ED9 ... the ATE I left at home  
  
 On a very first listen I like the ZS3 quite some, better than the ZS1, but that might be very subjective ... I don't consider myself a bass head, but the ED9 with the shinier pipes is really nice.


----------



## vapman

Does the ATE / ATE-S use a 8mm driver?


----------



## CoiL

ATE - yes (if I remember correctly from modding my ATE). Don`t know about S version.


----------



## vapman

Do any of these use a 14/15mm driver?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Some of the older models use large drivers (ANV ftw), but the recent ones all use 10mm and smaller to my knowledge.


----------



## vapman

b9scrambler said:


> Some of the older models use large drivers (ANV ftw), but the recent ones all use 10mm and smaller to my knowledge.


 

 Yeah thats what the case seems to be. can't find anything with a bigger than 9mm driver.
 surprised the ATE is only 8mm, it's capable of pretty great bass...


----------



## B9Scrambler

vapman said:


> Yeah thats what the case seems to be. can't find anything with a bigger than 9mm driver.
> surprised the ATE is only 8mm, it's capable of pretty great bass...




The ED4/Z1 use 10mm drivers. They can output some serious bass, but have VERY aggressive treble and mids.


----------



## CoiL

vapman said:


> surprised the ATE is only 8mm, it's capable of pretty great bass...


 
 Bigger isn`t always better. It`s about implementation and design. ATE drivers have shells around them with kind of "port hole" in front of driver that makes bass "more powerful and tight".


----------



## vapman

coil said:


> Bigger isn`t always better. It`s about implementation and design. ATE drivers have shells around them with kind of "port hole" in front of driver that makes bass "more powerful and tight".


 

 Thanks for the info - i was hoping i could transplant an ATE driver into an earbud shell, but no bud shells support drivers that small


----------



## CoiL

Fill earbud shell with hot-glue to certain extent and drill appropriate size hole for ATE driver and You`re done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though, ATE driver alone doesn`t contribute to ATE sound signature - it needs certain amount of space and right size nozzle tube + very tiny vent hole to sound good. Your earbud modification probably need lot of tuning before it sounds "right".


----------



## xtreme

Greetings fellow uhm KZ people. Quite new around here (first post) and just wanted some input on which KZ's to go with. Currently I've got a pair of Shure SE215 and to be honest I'm quite bored of the sound they give out. Been looking at the ZS3, ATE, ZS1 and ZS2. Kinda locked in on the ZS3 and ATE after some reading, but I still want some inpu on the ZS1 vs the ZS2. I don't mind there to be some bass as I'm somewhat a basshead. Just wanted to get some opinions on which of those two I should get or other models I should look into. Budget is 24$ atm and I'm trying to get the most for that money.
  
 Thanks in advance for any advice


----------



## vapman

xtreme said:


> Greetings fellow uhm KZ people. Quite new around here (first post) and just wanted some input on which KZ's to go with. Currently I've got a pair of Shure SE215 and to be honest I'm quite bored of the sound they give out. Been looking at the ZS3, ATE, ZS1 and ZS2. Kinda locked in on the ZS3 and ATE after some reading, but I still want some inpu on the ZS1 vs the ZS2. I don't mind there to be some bass as I'm somewhat a basshead. Just wanted to get some opinions on which of those two I should get or other models I should look into. Budget is 24$ atm and I'm trying to get the most for that money.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice


 

 You could get a really nice amp later (or even just a kind of nice amp) and the ATE can turn into a serious bass monster, take my word on it as a fellow basshead.
  
 Other KZ's will give you more bass without an amp and EQing, but the ATE with an amp will hit harder than any other KZ - at the same time the ones that give you more bass without an amp won't scale as well if you plan to upgrade other gear later.
  
 hope that helps!
  
 p.s. i have'nt heard the ZS3 yet


----------



## westsenkovec

vegetaleb said:


> Same here, the ATEs are the best for running and all kind of sports thanks to the memory wires, they have a very good sound quality and clear details, though the bass can be a bit too high.
> I hope the KZ ZS3 have less bass


 
 Mine are a year old or something like that so I unfortunately don't have the memory wire. While the sound is good, especially considering the price, for running I would like something that has better noise isolation.

 I saw that the newer ones have polymer covered weights. Mine oxidized pretty badly from sweat.
  
  
  
*Any sugestions for replacment tips for KZ ATE? But not something from amazon that costs like three pairs of ATEs.*


----------



## xtreme

vapman said:


> You could get a really nice amp later (or even just a kind of nice amp) and the ATE can turn into a serious bass monster, take my word on it as a fellow basshead.
> 
> Other KZ's will give you more bass without an amp and EQing, but the ATE with an amp will hit harder than any other KZ - at the same time the ones that give you more bass without an amp won't scale as well if you plan to upgrade other gear later.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the input! Guess the ATE and ZS3 is going to be bought then, just need some advice on whether to go with the ZS1 or ZS2


----------



## Podster

Well as a get well present to myself I dropped $27 on a pair of ZS3's and ATR's, updates to follow


----------



## xtreme

I basically messed up with my math and ordered a pair of ATE's (got them at 5$) and a pair of ZS2's at 10$ and I was then meant to have enough money to get the ZS3's aswell but when I bought the ATE's I had the option to give money to charity so I went ahead and did that, so yeah that basically made me not affording them this time. It was well worth it though, I'd rather help fight cancer than have an extra pair of IEM's


----------



## vapman

xtreme said:


> I basically messed up with my math and ordered a pair of ATE's (got them at 5$) and a pair of ZS2's at 10$ and I was then meant to have enough money to get the ZS3's aswell but when I bought the ATE's I had the option to give money to charity so I went ahead and did that, so yeah that basically made me not affording them this time. It was well worth it though, I'd rather help fight cancer than have an extra pair of IEM's


 

 So you went with the ATE's? They're a good choice, you won't be disappointed at all.
  
 If you have an older stereo receiver laying around, or can go to a thrift store or something like that easily where they sell em, those can give you an ****load of power to the headphone outputs, and then you could realize how much bass the ATE is capable of  
  
 I bought myself a set of ATR earlier today though to satisfy the curiosity.


----------



## B9Scrambler

My buddy's ZS1 finally arrived and I've had the chance to check it out in detail. If anyone wanted to get the ZN1 Mini but were put off by the short cable, just but a new ZS1. It is definitely not the same as the original.
  
 - standard nozzle filter; brass ring removed
 - crossover removed
  
 Personally, I am not a fan and much prefer the original ZS1 in every way. They just sound so much more clear. Listening to the ZN1 Mini and new ZS1 back-to-back with the original ZS1 makes this very apparent. Maybe it's because of the many, many hours I have on the original, but the other two sound veiled.
  
 My curiosity has been satisfied.


----------



## Sazu

I finally finished doing the grill mod, made hole using soldering iron and sand paper turned out great


----------



## xtreme

vapman said:


> So you went with the ATE's? They're a good choice, you won't be disappointed at all.
> 
> If you have an older stereo receiver laying around, or can go to a thrift store or something like that easily where they sell em, those can give you an ****load of power to the headphone outputs, and then you could realize how much bass the ATE is capable of
> 
> I bought myself a set of ATR earlier today though to satisfy the curiosity.




Yup, those and the ZS2. Can't wait to see how they eq on my xonar card. My DT770's have some monsterous bass with my current setup. Sure will test them on my stereo aswell


----------



## CoiL

sazu said:


> I finally finished doing the grill mod, made hole using soldering iron and sand paper turned out great


 
 Nice job! Nice trick to get that hole with soldering iron... but... don`t inhale the toxic gases! 
  
 How about sound? Did it improve and how? You have vent holes version or not?


----------



## kaiteck

xtreme said:


> Greetings fellow uhm KZ people. Quite new around here (first post) and just wanted some input on which KZ's to go with. Currently I've got a pair of Shure SE215 and to be honest I'm quite bored of the sound they give out. Been looking at the ZS3, ATE, ZS1 and ZS2. Kinda locked in on the ZS3 and ATE after some reading, but I still want some inpu on the ZS1 vs the ZS2. I don't mind there to be some bass as I'm somewhat a basshead. Just wanted to get some opinions on which of those two I should get or other models I should look into. Budget is 24$ atm and I'm trying to get the most for that money.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice


 
 Would not comment on zs3 since I didn't try one.
  
 I'm a basshead and I used kz ate-s,kz ate and kz zs1. My personal fav is kz ate-s. KZ ate-s is definitely bassier than kz ate. Other than that, they sound very similar. Meanwhile the kz zs1 is a Dual dynamic driver which is too much for me.


----------



## duo8

Dang my ED9 filters are oxidizing. This green stuff started showing up around them.


----------



## CoiL

you are not alone...


----------



## Podster

duo8 said:


> Dang my ED9 filters are oxidizing. This green stuff started showing up around them.


 

 Yes, the brass filter is really just cheap pot metal as far as I can tell. It's a pain in the arse but if you take them apart after a long session and wipe/dry them they hold up a lot longer, i fully corroded my first pair before I realized how cheap the metal was but since I own like 5 pair of ED9's I had reserves and treat them a little more gingerly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hey Coil, Sazu may be giving you a little DIY competition there
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jk, your still the master


----------



## CoiL

Naah... he is just my follower... I`m da ModMasta!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 LOL, I`m just kidding. I`m not competing with anyone, just a hobby
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I`m happy to see some creative methods to get things done. I just happen to have better tools and options for modding. Probably I would have done same thing without tools.


----------



## Deb1995

podster said:


> Well as a get well present to myself I dropped $27 on a pair of ZS3's and ATR's, updates to follow


 
  I'll wait for your impression before I place my order. I'm really excited to see how ATR can stand against ATE.
 I don't own the ATE. I skipped them for other IEM like maple, easy UE etc.
 Maybe, I will order the ATE or ATR and ZS3 in next month.
  
  
  
 My English is not good. So, sorry for any mistake!


----------



## Deb1995

coil said:


> Naah... he is just my follower... I`m da ModMasta!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Your works are great. I checked your workshop and they are really great. I've been following  the chinese iem and kz threads from a long time and your advice helped me a lot (like EDR2, HLSX 808). I'm a fan of your work.


----------



## 1clearhead

duo8 said:


> Dang my ED9 filters are oxidizing. This green stuff started showing up around them.


 

 Threw the brass ones away.....didn't want to infect my ears!


----------



## xtreme

Been reading about all of these mods for the ATE but I havent been able to really find some threads explaining anything. If anyone could be kind enough to list some mods that will benefit the way the ATE sounds that would be really nice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can't wait to get my hands on them and mod them, currently sitting here rocking out with my lightly modded DT770's


----------



## Sazu

Yeah mine didn't have the vent holes but after I make the holes I noticed that the bass went down compared to when they are completely closed and vocals sound great with the open grill now


----------



## vapman

xtreme said:


> Been reading about all of these mods for the ATE but I havent been able to really find some threads explaining anything. If anyone could be kind enough to list some mods that will benefit the way the ATE sounds that would be really nice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 With a decent amp and some bass boost on the EQ those things can crush the 770's basswise.


----------



## Shaya Kutnowski

Hey there. So I recently purchased KZ ATE S? I'm not sure of the difference between that and the regular ATEs? Anyways, just curious? What's the best all around KZ's? The ED9s I want to try out soon)? Also, KZ has an ED Special edition going on? What's that? Any good? http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED-Special-Edition-Gold-Plated-Housing-Double-Magnets-Units-Noise-Isolating-HD-HiFi-Earphone-Headphones/1358152_32330216306.html


----------



## vapman

shaya kutnowski said:


> Hey there. So I recently purchased KZ ATE S? I'm not sure of the difference between that and the regular ATEs? Anyways, just curious? What's the best all around KZ's? The ED9s I want to try out soon)? Also, KZ has an ED Special edition going on? What's that? Any good? http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ED-Special-Edition-Gold-Plated-Housing-Double-Magnets-Units-Noise-Isolating-HD-HiFi-Earphone-Headphones/1358152_32330216306.html


 

 the ATE-S will be much bassier without an amp. however with an amp it won't be much bassier than the ATE and will be somewhat muddy in comparison.


----------



## Redcarmoose

http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-ate-in-ear-monitors/reviews/16455


----------



## To.M

Redcarmoose good review! but detachable MMCX? ATE don't have it, unfortunately


----------



## Willber

to.m said:


> @Redcarmoose good review! but detachable MMCX? ATE don't have it, unfortunately


 
  
 Correct (I have two sets).


----------



## Redcarmoose

to.m said:


> Redcarmoose good review! but detachable MMCX? ATE don't have it, unfortunately




Yes, put a correction at bottom.


----------



## kiler

It still is a nice review  Now you would wonder how would a MMCX connector KZ would look like :b


----------



## Willber

kiler said:


> Now you would wonder how would a MMCX connector KZ would look like :b


 
  
 Like this?
  
 http://www.geekbuying.com/item/368891


----------



## Podster

willber said:


> Like this?
> 
> http://www.geekbuying.com/item/368891


 

 Well that is actually a 2 pin connector I believe
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But $12.99 is a killer price on those


----------



## vapman

Damn, and I just placed an order a couple days ago! using one of my nice 2 pins on a KZ easily, my wishes all coming true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 edit: ED10, ATE-S new version, ATR, and ZS3 ordered and paid. Really excited!!!


----------



## Podster

vapman said:


> Damn, and I just placed an order a couple days ago! using one of my nice 2 pins on a KZ easily, my wishes all coming true
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Dang Vap, how many KZ's you up to now? I culled about half my collection back last month and here I am ordering two more pair after promising myself I was going to get away from Sub $40 iem's!


----------



## vapman

podster said:


> Dang Vap, how many KZ's you up to now? I culled about half my collection back last month and here I am ordering two more pair after promising myself I was going to get away from Sub $40 iem's!


 

 Haha, went on a KZ buying spree because I gave all mine away! I thought I was down to one of the translucent ATE's, turned out I had given my last one away and though I had one more stashed away. So I'm starting fresh again


----------



## Kelzo

vapman said:


> Damn, and I just placed an order a couple days ago! using one of my nice 2 pins on a KZ easily, my wishes all coming true
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Does the ATR have smaller driver compared to the original ATE? Hopefully it would still sound warmish with better highs


----------



## vapman

kelzo said:


> Does the ATR have smaller driver compared to the original ATE? Hopefully it would still sound warmish with better highs




It looked like the same driver in the pictures but I will know when it gets here


----------



## Kelzo

vapman said:


> It looked like the same driver in the pictures but I will know when it gets here


 
 Great will be waiting for your impressions vapman!


----------



## kaiteck

kelzo said:


> Does the ATR have smaller driver compared to the original ATE? Hopefully it would still sound warmish with better highs



No, according to kz. When compared to ATE, Overall sound quality ATE is better however ATR will do btr in lows.


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## ronniebra

Are KZ ATEs worth buying still?

 I have a pair that I got 4-5 months ago and I really liked them with my Xiaomi tips, but the cables are "loose" where they connect to the drivers so 
 I'll need a new pair. 

 What's a good price point to buy them at too?


----------



## CoiL

ronniebra said:


> Are KZ ATEs worth buying still?


 
 Absolutely YES! But don`t take S version or version without vent holes on body is my recommendation. No idea about R version yet.


> ...but the cables are "loose" where they connect to the drivers so I'll need a new pair.


 
 Search this thread picture gallery. You can easily open up Your ATE and re-solder wires and even secure them better with super-glue/hot-glue or whatever


----------



## Willber

coil said:


> Search this thread picture gallery. You can easily open up Your ATE and re-solder wires and even secure them better with super-glue/hot-glue or whatever


 
  
 Here is the post that shows how to open them:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/4080#post_11641215


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for referring to that post.
  
 Btw, from A2S thread:


coil said:


> Dammit guys, You may hate me for saying this but decided to run through my some previous favourite IEM`s I haven`t listened for some time and damn I have done great job with my ATE FF-mod (with Huast H10 tips)... I prefer it over A2S, believe it or not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Little extra note - my FF-mod is based on 2nd gen translucent black ATE with vent holes and red driver "shells".


----------



## crabdog

Lolwut. Unfortunately seems that KZ is happy to remain in the super low budget arena. Not all bad I guess if they keep bringing out little gems like in the past. This one is certainly different:
  

  
 Also comes in 2 sizes (housing):


----------



## CoiL

crabdog said:


> Lolwut. Unfortunately seems that KZ is happy to remain in the super low budget arena. Not all bad I guess if they keep bringing out little gems like in the past. This one is certainly different:
> 
> 
> 
> Also comes in 2 sizes (housing):


 
 Whaaatt?? These come in to different sizes of shells?!?

  
 Wonder what drivers they use? I hope this is not just re-shelling of previous model(s).
 Btw, from pics it seems they are not open-back like the case with EDR2 mesh which actually is closed and glued onto housing.


----------



## crabdog

coil said:


> Whaaatt?? These come in to different sizes of shells?!?
> 
> 
> Wonder what drivers they use? I hope this is not just re-shelling of previous model(s).
> Btw, from pics it seems they are not open-back like the case with EDR2 mesh which actually is closed and glued onto housing.


 
  
 Brand: KZ
 Model: ED7​ Impedance: 16Ω
 Earphone sensitivity: 106dB 
 Frequency response ran ge: 20-20000HZ  
Driver unit: 8mm dynamic  drive unit


----------



## CoiL

...seems they are "stuck" with same driver and rather just re-shelling their line-up continuously


----------



## Forty6

Apparently knowledge zenith has placed themselves in a most favorable mass market position in the world of IEM ( pricing ) , at least from their marketing strategy pov in mainland China which is their main market . 

They should continue stick with its low cost tradition , they need not have move its product to the next level , as moving a step higher forward would mean higher production cost , there would than be no more 10-30 a piece USD iem coming from them , and once they 're priced over the USD 50 dollars Mark . 
I guess they won't be as popular as what they're enjoying right now on the mass market .

I for one would be very frank about it , I would not purchase any iem cost more than 50 USD made by China . 
Not to say I despise China made products , it's because these china makes iem still doesn't has that kind of worldwide presence to those of their counterparts from Japan , Korea , Europeans or the Americans .

Until they had that kind of presence ,,no matter how good they are , the mass would still had that little reservation about them , 
But if they remain in the low cost low budget arena $10-20 USD, even if QC is a recurring issue , they would still able to sell well .

But once they take a step forward to bring up the quality and Jack up prices, it's game over . Cheapo is their game .
R
I owned 3 pair currently , and would certainly purchasing more .
For the price I had paid for them , and the Sound signatures coming out from these BA , I had no complaints whatsoever .
I love my KZ as much as I love my Aurisonics .


----------



## CoiL

forty6 said:


> For the price I had paid for them , and the *Sound signatures coming out from these BA* , I had no complaints whatsoever .


 
 KZ has no BA IEM. Only DD.
  
 And that is why they should actually up their game because there are already quite a lot of ~30$ BA+DD IEM`s out there which of many probably are superior to KZ DD`s in terms of resolution.


----------



## Forty6

coil said:


> KZ has no BA IEM. Only DD.
> 
> And that is why they should actually up their game because there are already quite a lot of ~30$ BA+DD IEM`s out there which of many probably are superior to KZ DD`s in terms of resolution.




My bad , anyway I love that Sig coming from my ED9 , 10 , hd3 with my DAP/amp . I would love them to remain as it is , price wise , anything higher than what they're now, would mean different choices for me , personally I'm not willing to spend anything beyond 50 USD for a single pair of China made iem , no matter how good they're . 
I hated to say this and not bashing Chinese made products , I'm a Chinese too , but when you see in China even EGGS , Infant milk formula , edible oil can be faked , It tells you many things about their mainland products .

I bought the KZ as a supplement a cheaper alternative to those of higher price units , that's the only reason no more . priced low is their strong points , as China is still their main market not export market. Anything higher than what they're offering now would be a disaster . They would be taken over by their own counterparts . Business in mainland China is a very competitive market .
It's not easy as one think . They could be replaced anytime by market players. Knowledge zenith knows very well where they stand.


----------



## vegetaleb

Is it me or these ATR are just renamed  ATE?
 Also I didn't like the lack of memory wire choice and the Bass emphasis 
 I was expecting a sort of ATES with slightly less bass but apparently no


----------



## vapman

vegetaleb said:


> Is it me or these ATR are just renamed  ATE?
> Also I didn't like the lack of memory wire choice and the Bass emphasis
> I was expecting a sort of ATES with slightly less bass but apparently no


 

 do you have the ATR?
 i bought it to compare to my ATE, but still waiting on delivery from china...


----------



## vegetaleb

vapman said:


> do you have the ATR?
> i bought it to compare to my ATE, but still waiting on delivery from china...


 
  
 Nop!
 Still enjoying the ATES as they are my favorite running iems.
 I was just hoping they will do something similar but with less bass but from the look of it the ATR is just the same minus the memory wire.
 I wonder if the ZS3 are finally fixed?


----------



## zeppu08

I bought an KZ ATE S with mic yesterday just want to ask is the mic not compatible with the iphone 6 or note 5? Tried to call someone and all the other line hear are static.. Tried to do a voice msg as well and got the same output. Is the mic faulty or it just that its not compatible?? The iems are working fine just the mic.. Hope someone can enlighten me.. Thanks!


----------



## xtreme

So the mailman delivered a sweet carepackage from KZ today. Opened the first box, there lays the KZ ZS2, first impressions are: BASS! Holy moly thats some outrageous bass for IEM's. Then it was time to attack the ATE's, opened the box and there lays the ed2 instead. Probably been an mixup from the seller. I do however like the sound of them, so as of right now I'm really confused if I should return them. Any thoughts? Got them at 5$ btw


----------



## Ruben123

Thought that the ed9 gold could output some serious bass for edm but lol... Hds1 are better in that regard. Fyi


----------



## Forty6

Seriously KZ 





xtreme said:


> So the mailman delivered a sweet carepackage from KZ today. Opened the first box, there lays the KZ ZS2, first impressions are: BASS! Holy moly thats some outrageous bass for IEM's. Then it was time to attack the ATE's, opened the box and there lays the ed2 instead. Probably been an mixup from the seller. I do however like the sound of them, so as of right now I'm really confused if I should return them. Any thoughts? Got them at 5$ btw




You just found your liked 5$ sound , Why return ... It's a keeper


----------



## FiJAAS

Are there any authorized dealers on Amazon, Ali Express or eBay?


----------



## blazinblazin

Finally received from mail


----------



## Willber

And?... (ZS3 I'm interested in, got some on the way.)


----------



## To.M

...yeah ... and?  by the way I love my black ATE


----------



## vegetaleb

blazinblazin said:


> Finally received from mail


 
  
 Now you have to give us your review and comparison with other KZ


----------



## Willber

vegetaleb said:


> Now you have to give us your review and comparison with other KZ


 
  
 Step 1: Take them out of the box.


----------



## blazinblazin

Ok took out~ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  

  
**I am not a pro, i just enjoy music, i just describe what i heard in my own way~*
**I have not burnt in the IEMs just First Impressions.*
  
  
 IMO ATE was wow~ then ZS3 was like more wow~
  
 I am driving them with Fiio X5II with E12A amp.
  
 Using both with silicon tips.
  
  
  
*Build quality*
  
 ZS3 looks expensive but feels very light but solid. ZS3 cables is not as sticky as ATE. 
  
 ATE just looks so classic which 1 dig too~ While ZS3 has a modern IEM look. 
  
  
*Isolation*
  
 ZS3 seals better for me than ATE. Probably cause of the shape.
  
  
  
*Sound*
  
 To me ZS3 have the edge over ATE.
  
 Both are actually built differently.
  
 ATE is just more smoother, lighter which you can listen endlessly~
  
 ZS3 packs a bit more details, more punch on the instruments in a bit larger soundstage.
  
 For me the female vocals on ZS3 are just higher, during higher pitch almost reaching sibilant but just right it just stop there. Won't cause any discomfort. (Of cause different people have different tolerance on sibilant)
  
  
 Both are great sounding IEMs. Enjoying both~


----------



## Willber

Thanks, that's useful.


----------



## habarabadabas

KZ ZS3 for 13 USD?! Is this thing legit?
  
 http://www.geekbuying.com/item/KZ-ZS3-Noise-Cancelling-In-ear-Stereo-Earphone-Black-368891/


----------



## Willber

habarabadabas said:


> KZ ZS3 for 13 USD?! Is this thing legit?
> 
> http://www.geekbuying.com/item/KZ-ZS3-Noise-Cancelling-In-ear-Stereo-Earphone-Black-368891/


 
  
 That's where I'm getting mine from, they were shipped last week.


----------



## habarabadabas

But...but.. they're out of stock..


----------



## CoiL

blazinblazin said:


> ZS3 packs a bit more details, more punch on the instruments in a bit *larger soundstage.*


 
 That made me interested about ZS3


> ...during higher pitch almost reaching sibilant but just right it just stop there. Won't cause any discomfort. (Of cause different people have different tolerance on sibilant)


 
 And that made me uninterested somewhat...


----------



## Willber

habarabadabas said:


> But...but.. they're out of stock..


 
  
 Oh well, I'm sure they'll be getting more in. You can ask them to contact you when they do.


----------



## vegetaleb

blazinblazin said:


> Ok took out~
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!
 So bass wise it's more bassy or less than ATE?
 I love the details in the ATES but they are slightly more bassy than I like


----------



## habarabadabas

Curious with the ZS3, how would you compare the highs between the ED9 and ZS3? The highs on the ED9s are quite detailed but peircing. Im also curious about its isolation. I usually use IEMs while studying to improve concentration and to block other ambient noise (roommates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Thanks!


----------



## Ruben123

habarabadabas said:


> Curious with the ZS3, how would you compare the highs between the ED9 and ZS3? The highs on the ED9s are quite detailed but peircing. Im also curious about its isolation. I usually use IEMs while studying to improve concentration and to block other ambient noise (roommates  ). Thanks!




 Fix ed9s highs by closing the vents and the highs are not piercing anymore.


----------



## blazinblazin

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks!
> So bass wise it's more bassy or less than ATE?
> I love the details in the ATES but they are slightly more bassy than I like


 
  
 I would say lesser than ATE.


----------



## blazinblazin

habarabadabas said:


> Curious with the ZS3, how would you compare the highs between the ED9 and ZS3? The highs on the ED9s are quite detailed but peircing. Im also curious about its isolation. I usually use IEMs while studying to improve concentration and to block other ambient noise (roommates
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't have ED9, i would say ZS3 is not piercing to me.  Isolation wise... quite good due to its designed to fit into groove of your ear like a CIEM.


----------



## habarabadabas

Thanks. I want detailed highs, but not the piercing ones.


----------



## koroshiya8

Can anyone advise what does the print on the casing means for the ATE
  
 for e.g. mine reads RQ:018NBM and those i see on the web usually starts with 016 (instead of 018)


----------



## Forty6

koroshiya8 said:


> Can anyone advise what does the print on the casing means for the ATE
> 
> for e.g. mine reads RQ:018NBM and those i see on the web usually starts with 016 (instead of 018)




Batch numbers ?


----------



## smy1

Has anyone heard about the new KZ ed7? They are made out of bambo, Might order one.


----------



## jant71

smy1 said:


> Has anyone heard about the new KZ ed7? They are made out of bambo, Might order one.


 


   " Me too. I'll take two dozen please! "


----------



## Mellowship

They have the ed7 at two sizes: mini and standard. Guess I'll pull the trigger only after reading reports of both of them here... If they have different sized dinamic drivers, I'm pretty sure they will sound diferently...


----------



## crabdog

mellowship said:


> They have the ed7 at two sizes: mini and standard. Guess I'll pull the trigger only after reading reports of both of them here... If they have different sized dinamic drivers, I'm pretty sure they will sound diferently...


 
 AFAIK the driver is the same in each size. It will be interesting to see how the size alters the sound of each one.


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## Deb1995

I placed an order for ATE non-s version. I'm waiting for some review on ATR and ED7 before I buy them. I already have the ED3c and edr2. IMO ed3c is much better. From the pictures, it looks like the ed7 is just another wooden version Edr2(same grill mesh).


----------



## smy1

Are the zs3 safe to buy now? Because I heard that there were bad batches back at June. I bought it from sunny sunny fashion store.


----------



## B9Scrambler

They should be fine now, in theory. We'll see very quickly once they starting getting to buyers. I personally am pumped to receive mine.


----------



## smy1

b9scrambler said:


> They should be fine now, in theory. We'll see very quickly once they starting getting to buyers. I personally am pumped to receive mine.




Yeah me too, I be receiving these in 12-20 days.


----------



## 1clearhead

smy1 said:


> Are the zs3 safe to buy now? Because I heard that there were bad batches back at June. I bought it from sunny sunny fashion store.


 

 I'll have my Chinese friend contact them later today, or tomorrow and let you know. So far, his main website doesn't carry them yet.


----------



## Chief Stringer

redcarmoose said:


>


 
  
 ATE's on acid! completely forgot i own those earphones, anyone used any ZS3's? wonder if they super bass heavy like the ZS1's (i hope so)


----------



## Forty6

Of all the KZ I had come to own , I still very much liked what the ED 9 are bringing to my pair of 2 cents ears .. the ED9 is my most beloved of all KZ in my KZ arsenal .


----------



## ForceMajeure

I am looking on taobao for dynamic drivers, there are a ton of choices, they also sells KZ drivers.
 Now I want your honest opinion about the sound quality of those various KZ, relative to a good 100$-200$ good sounding iem, how good does those kz sound? no hype involved just people that have experience with gear.
  
 How is the bass quality of them? do they have decent separation and soundstage? Do they sound bloated? How is the detail on them etc..


----------



## smy1

forcemajeure said:


> I am looking on taobao for dynamic drivers, there are a ton of choices, they also sells KZ drivers.
> Now I want your honest opinion about the sound quality of those various KZ, relative to a good 100$-200$ good sounding iem, how good does those kz sound? no hype involved just people that have experience with gear.
> 
> How is the bass quality of them? do they have decent separation and soundstage? Do they sound bloated? How is the detail on them etc..




Well comparing my KZ ie80s and my KZ ate to the im03. Everything is much cleaner, better separation, bass is more well controlled and much more realistic. Just about everything is better on my im03.

But I think my KZ ie80s soundstage is little wider then my im03.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> They should be fine now, in theory. We'll see very quickly once they starting getting to buyers. I personally am pumped to receive mine.


 

 It is unbelievable to me just how good these new ZS3's are for $13, removable cable and finish to to die for. They are nothing like ZS1 & 2 as far a bass leading. They have very good bass with power but out of my phone I had to increase bass via EQ and its still not ZS1/2 bass. Wish I had bought two pair of these for $26 than the A&D D2's


----------



## smy1

I wonder what the KZ ed7 sounds like and is there any difference between mini and regular, there only $6 so I might give it a try.


----------



## blazinblazin

Looks like more ZS3 owners~


----------



## smy1

I ordered the KZ ed7 I hope they are good.


----------



## crabdog

smy1 said:


> I ordered the KZ ed7 I hope they are good.



Did you go for the big or small shell?


----------



## habarabadabas

Guys.. Is this thing legit? KZ ZS3 for 11 USD. Any thoughts?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kz-ZS3-The-Most-Comfortable-Ergonomic-HIFI-Headphones-Two-Styles-Black-F5-/302025271922?var=&hash=item46521bea72mhKMkwZsAnSLWoOTUMEb_PQ


----------



## Podster

Looks legit, I thought they were a bargain at $13, this is a steal!


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Looks legit, I thought they were a bargain at $13, this is a steal!



Bro I'd like you to compare them to the ed9s regarding neutralish sound. Don't they sound any bit neutral, you don't have to compare them extensively as I won't buy them then  at $10 though with possible neutral sound...


----------



## 1clearhead

.....Really want the KZ-ZS3! I'll try contacting the KZ company again to see if they're going to sell them at there homepage website.


----------



## smy1

crabdog said:


> Did you go for the big or small shell?




The big one, I feel like the mini one has a small driver inside but who knows they said they sound the same.


----------



## smy1

habarabadabas said:


> Guys.. Is this thing legit? KZ ZS3 for 11 USD. Any thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kz-ZS3-The-Most-Comfortable-Ergonomic-HIFI-Headphones-Two-Styles-Black-F5-/302025271922?var=&hash=item46521bea72mhKMkwZsAnSLWoOTUMEb_PQ




I doubt they sel fake KZ.


----------



## kalo86

Hello guys,
  
 I need an advice: I'm going to buy a KZ ATE in-ear monitors.
 It's better with or without mic for the sound quality? May the mic bother with certain DAPs?
  
 Another question: is there a new/better model than the most liked ATE?
 Thank you in advance!
 Regards,
  
 kalo86


----------



## smy1

kalo86 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I need an advice: I'm going to buy a KZ ATE in-ear monitors.
> It's better with or without mic for the sound quality? May the mic bother with certain DAPs?
> ...




There's a myth that mics makes the sound quaility little bad.
So just go with no mic.


----------



## kalo86

smy1 said:


> There's a myth that mics makes the sound quaility little bad.
> So just go with no mic.




Thank you for the fast reply!
Then I exclude the mic, avoiding any doubts!


----------



## habarabadabas

smy1 said:


> I doubt they sel fake KZ.


 
 Id thought so. The ZS3s are so tempting.


----------



## seanwee

smy1 said:


> There's a myth that mics makes the sound quaility little bad.
> So just go with no mic.


 
 bah, I got an EDR2 with mic


----------



## B9Scrambler

seanwee said:


> bah, I got an EDR2 with mic


 
  
 Don't worry about it. Mic isn't going to make much, if any difference.


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Bro I'd like you to compare them to the ed9s regarding neutralish sound. Don't they sound any bit neutral, you don't have to compare them extensively as I won't buy them then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry for the delay Ruben, I never get notifications from Head-Fi anymore but I think its more our server security at work than Head-Fi! I think they are neutral but I will say my ED9's have a more bass forward sound than the ZS3 at least to my old ears. I'm not really a bass hound as long as it's not muddled bass and hits solid. The ZS3 is not my first grab KZ and even my black ED9 has been back burnered
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Never thought I'd hear myself say that)!
  
 For me the fit, finish and seal make the ZS3 ideal, it's with my ultra light porto rig. The bass hits just a little better with external power I have found


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Sorry for the delay Ruben, I never get notifications from Head-Fi anymore but I think its more our server security at work than Head-Fi! I think they are neutral but I will say my ED9's have a more bass forward sound than the ZS3 at least to my old ears. I'm not really a bass hound as long as it's not muddled bass and hits solid. The ZS3 is not my first grab KZ and even my black ED9 has been back burnered:eek: (Never thought I'd hear myself say that)!
> 
> For me the fit, finish and seal make the ZS3 ideal, it's with my ultra light porto rig. The bass hits just a little better with external power I have found:wink_face:




Thanks my friend, I'm afraid I've got to empty my wallet again....


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Thanks my friend, I'm afraid I've got to empty my wallet again....


 

 I hear ya, my NOT above was supposed to be my NOW first grab KZ! These are easily an $20 iem and one you can really enjoy on just about any device, I'm thinking KZ is finally (however slow) stepping up their game. Had to do a little tip rolling at first but settled or should I say the Trinity double flange worked the best for me with these puppies
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My ATR's should be here any minute as well, I hope they are going to be the AMG version of the ATE's


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> I hear ya, my NOT above was supposed to be my NOW first grab KZ! These are easily an $20 iem and one you can really enjoy on just about any device, I'm thinking KZ is finally (however slow) stepping up their game. Had to do a little tip rolling at first but settled or should I say the Trinity double flange worked the best for me with these puppies:wink_face:
> 
> My ATR's should be here any minute as well, I hope they are going to be the AMG version of the ATE's:tongue_smile:




Still I don't understand... Even less bass than the ed9? That's great news!


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Still I don't understand... Even less bass than the ed9? That's great news!


 

 Yep, and absolutely nothing like the ZS1 or 2 which were to bass head iem's IMO. I run the gold filters on my 9's and they have about all the bass I need, keep in mind I'm basing this on sub $15 iem's I've heard. Usually for more money always comes refinement, so I've heard much better everything but it is always at a cost. I have over 30 iem's now and I find out more every day while listening to the different ones but I also have them in a range from $350 to $9!


----------



## smy1

podster said:


> Yep, and absolutely nothing like the ZS1 or 2 which were to bass head iem's IMO. I run the gold filters on my 9's and they have about all the bass I need, keep in mind I'm basing this on sub $15 iem's I've heard. Usually for more money always comes refinement, so I've heard much better everything but it is always at a cost. I have over 30 iem's now and I find out more every day while listening to the different ones but I also have them in a range from $350 to $9!




Is it ok to have 100 iems?


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Yep, and absolutely nothing like the ZS1 or 2 which were to bass head iem's IMO. I run the gold filters on my 9's and they have about all the bass I need, keep in mind I'm basing this on sub $15 iem's I've heard. Usually for more money always comes refinement, so I've heard much better everything but it is always at a cost. I have over 30 iem's now and I find out more every day while listening to the different ones but I also have them in a range from $350 to $9!




OK  I use the copper ones but the difference in bass quantity isn't as big as one might think. Think I'll order one tomorrow, if only for their looks... Dang


----------



## rockingthearies

Hi all I am currently into budget iems heard many good reviews about kz products in the end I am debating whether I should go with the KZ ZS3, Rock Zircons, Xiaomi Hybrid, or Auglamour R8. Feel free to leave your opinions I am a newbie in the audio world so I hope you all can help guide me along.


----------



## blazinblazin

KZ ZS3 quite neutral but still maintain the woofer like bass.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Does anyone have a recommendation for a replacement cable for the ZS3?  I prefer one with memory wire (which a lot of people don't) instead of the "pre-bent" plastic covering that the stock cable has.  If anything, the pre-bent cable almost forces them out of my ears more often than not.  I can't tell if it's an old style UE 2-pin, ES/UM, or just "generic".


----------



## dokkj

Well this is unfortunate, the left side of my ED9 isn't working 95% of the time. Any ideas what I can do?


----------



## Chief Stringer

ZS1 vs ZS2 vs ZN1 mainly for heavy bass output?
  
  
 I owned for ZS1's for abit and loved the super heavy bass but they broke a while back, just just wondering how the other two compare.
  
  
 I know the ZS2s have smaller bass drivers so im guessing the ZS1s will be more ideal for what i after, but how about the ZN1s? are they ZS1s with a bigger soundstage?


----------



## Ruben123

dokkj said:


> Well this is unfortunate, the left side of my ED9 isn't working 95% of the time. Any ideas what I can do?




Replace the jack, takes few minutes and is relatively easy if you have a tiny bit if experience with soldering.


----------



## tibrocks

Hi all,
  
 I just received the KZ-ATE (without Mic), pleased with them so far -
  
 Now my plan is to convert them to *balanced* using a 4-pole audio jack, and I wanted to ask you guys if the lead has separate ground wires for L and R because I can't tell after the earpieces are merged...
  
 I wouldn't cut the jack just to find out the ground wire is common.. so I thought you might be able to help? 
  
 I can see through the wires are twisted, red, green and copper but cannot tell is there's separate ground for each channel... Help?


----------



## KipNix

I've read one review saying the ZS1 is hard to fit in the ears and get a good seal.
 What say you, KZ pros?


----------



## B9Scrambler

kipnix said:


> I've read one review saying the ZS1 is hard to fit in the ears and get a good seal.
> What say you, KZ pros?


 
  
 Yup, but in my case only initially. Once you find the right tips and set that memory wire just right, they are exceptionally comfortable. I can wear them pretty much all day, no exaggeration.


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> Yup, but in my case only initially. Once you find the right tips and set that memory wire just right, they are exceptionally comfortable. I can wear them pretty much all day, no exaggeration.


 

 scrambler et. al.:
 just got the ed10 on the basis of the effusive praise here--initally i'm underwhelmed, esp. in comparison to the ed9, which reproduce voices/percussion more naturally and has better highend detail. (bass on the ed10 is prodigious and deep, but the rest sounds a bit compressed). will the ed10 change significantly with burn in? advise on tips (i'm using the stock blue silicon)?


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> scrambler et. al.:
> just got the ed10 on the basis of the effusive praise here--initally i'm underwhelmed, esp. in comparison to the ed9, which reproduce voices/percussion more naturally and has better highend detail. (bass on the ed10 is prodigious and deep, but the rest sounds a bit compressed). will the ed10 change significantly with burn in? advise on tips (i'm using the stock blue silicon)?


 
  
 I'm sorry to hear you're not a fan of them so far. I ditched the stock tips immediately and went with something using a softer material; tips from the JVC HA-FXT90 sound quite nice. To me the ED10 is basically an improved ED9 w/gold filters installed.
  
 - I find the ED9's treble splashy, not so much with the ED10
 - ED10 has better mid-/sub-bass balance with greater extension
 - Slightly warmer more natural signature
 - Mids I actually hear as more forward, especially noticeable with female vocals (try Culprate's Undefined)
  
 The ED9 and I have a love/hate relationship. Under the right circumstances I really enjoy them, but in most circumstances that treble is a huge turn-off and flat out ruins the experience. I would take a number of KZ's over them any day; ED10, EDR2, ANV, ED3c, ATE, ZS1 (the original w/ crossover), Micro Ring etc. 
  
 But hey, everyone hears things differently and it seems I really like a lot of KZ's that others are lukewarm about. At least we're not talking about a sub $10 earphone and not something that was a significant investment.


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> I'm sorry to hear you're not a fan of them so far. I ditched the stock tips immediately and went with something using a softer material; tips from the JVC HA-FXT90 sound quite nice. To me the ED10 is basically an improved ED9 w/gold filters installed.
> 
> - I find the ED9's treble splashy, not so much with the ED10
> - ED10 has better mid-/sub-bass balance with greater extension
> ...


 

 thanks for the feedback--i'm definitely gonna give 'em more time and roll some tips (tip some rolls?). i appreciate, and don't disagree, with your comparative analysis  of the ED9/ED10 except as to which is more "natural', which of course is a subjective function of how we integrate the different parts. i tend to like a brighter signature, which may be why i (initially) prefer the ED9. one curious thing i am noticing is that despite its warmer/smoother character the ed10 seems to accentuate the limitations of mp3 and other poorer-quality source material.


----------



## koroshiya8

Time to give back to this community as i just purchased a couple of ED7 
  
 Initial Impressions (through DVD800 amp);
 ED7 uses the same cable found in the ATE series.
 Bamboo quality is good as i was half suspicious whether it would come with dents, scratches etc.. end up it was undue worry.
 Quite neutral/clear sounding and is certainly not for bass heads.
  
  
  

















  
 Size comparison with ATE and both normal and small version


----------



## Gussisaurio

koroshiya8 said:


> Time to give back to this community as i just purchased a couple of ED7
> 
> Initial Impressions (through DVD800 amp);
> ED7 uses the same cable found in the ATE series.
> ...


 

 Thanks for sharing!!!
 Did you buy the big or the small version?
 Do you know if they sound the same or have different drivers?
  
 Thanks


----------



## ronniebra

Anyone have an idea on when the next KZ sale is? Looking to pick up 3-4 pairs of ATE's


----------



## koroshiya8

Hi, it is the same 8mm driver, only the size difference. i bought both versions but yet to try the smaller one except to compare the size. probably need a day or 2 for some detailed listening and comparison to ATE.
  
 Specs for info.
  
 3. Brand: KZ
  4. Model: ED7​  5. Impedance: 16Ω
  6. Earphone sensitivity: 106dB 
  7. Frequency response ran ge: 20-20000HZ    
  8. Interface: 3.5mm  Gilded
  9. Cable Length: 1.2M±5CM 
10.Color: Bamboo  
 11.Whether with microphone: Optional    
 12.Driver unit: 8mm dynamic  drive unit


----------



## Chief Stringer

koroshiya8 said:


> Hi, it is the same 8mm driver, only the size difference. i bought both versions but yet to try the smaller one except to compare the size. probably need a day or 2 for some detailed listening and comparison to ATE.
> 
> Specs for info.
> 
> ...


 
 Got any quick first impressions on how they compare to the ED10s, 9s, ATEs, or any other you've used sound signature wise? the price is making them very tempting, trying to decide between the ZS1s (previosuly owned), ZS3s, and the ED7s, i like my bass but im more concerned with how capable they are of producing bass with the bass boost on my Fiio then how bassy they sound normally, all the KZ's i own have reacted well to boosted bass/ high volumes, whereas my Sony MDR-v55s which are bass heavy distort alot if played loud or with bass boost


----------



## koroshiya8

chief stringer said:


> Got any quick first impressions on how they compare to the ED10s, 9s, ATEs, or any other you've used sound signature wise? the price is making them very tempting, trying to decide between the ZS1s (previosuly owned), ZS3s, and the ED7s, i like my bass but im more concerned with how capable they are of producing bass with the bass boost on my Fiio then how bassy they sound normally, all the KZ's i own have reacted well to boosted bass/ high volumes, whereas my Sony MDR-v55s which are bass heavy distort alot if played loud or with bass boost


 
 Hi, currently on hand i have the following;
 1. ATE. (Relatively comparing, the ATE is more over the ear implementation and also have a better fit compared to the ED7. The sound is also slightly warmer than ED7, which i suspect is partially due to the housing. The ATE also has clearly a better soundstage to the ED7)
 2. TFZ Series 5
 3. Audio Zero Tenore
 4. BrainWav S3
  
 As i just received the ED7 a few hours ago, will take a few days for more detailed comparison due to work. i am no expert, but if you have DAP or DAC that gives extra bass, i am quite sure it will enhance the overall experience. or otherwise you can change to comfy or similar tips to seal more bass...
  
 As of now, i'm listening to this via the DP-X1 and after finding the right fit and seal to my ears, i'm starting to appreciate the sound as it burns in.


----------



## Chief Stringer

koroshiya8 said:


> Hi, currently on hand i have the following;
> 1. ATE
> 2. TFZ Series 5
> 3. Audio Zero Tenore
> ...


 
  
 Okay , ill probably just order a pair anyways they are so cheap, ill wait and see if you say if theres any difference between the two sizes, i think you said the driver size is the same but the different enclosure size may have an effect


----------



## Chief Stringer

Anyone know were you can get replacement cables for the ZS3s, mainly none memory wire ones?


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> I'm sorry to hear you're not a fan of them so far. I ditched the stock tips immediately and went with something using a softer material; tips from the JVC HA-FXT90 sound quite nice. To me the ED10 is basically an improved ED9 w/gold filters installed.
> 
> - I find the ED9's treble splashy, not so much with the ED10
> - ED10 has better mid-/sub-bass balance with greater extension
> ...


 

 been burning in the ed10s and the sound character and balance is changing in a small but significant way--in particular the bass, which was dominant ootb, is retreating (others seem to have observed this) and midrange is more prominent and clearer. as a result, they're sounding less compressed and a little more detailed. i will a/b them more closely with the k9, but theire virtues are emerging...


----------



## smy1

koroshiya8 said:


> Time to give back to this community as i just purchased a couple of ED7
> 
> Initial Impressions (through DVD800 amp);
> 
> ...


----------



## koroshiya8

Yes they are real. therefore you have to expect some imperfection in terms of the exterior.. If normal plastic housing is 100% condition (since all are made the same), then i will say bamboo is 95%.


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> I'm sorry to hear you're not a fan of them so far. I ditched the stock tips immediately and went with something using a softer material; tips from the JVC HA-FXT90 sound quite nice. To me the ED10 is basically an improved ED9 w/gold filters installed.
> 
> - I find the ED9's treble splashy, not so much with the ED10
> - ED10 has better mid-/sub-bass balance with greater extension
> ...


 

 had trouble sleeping last night, so i mixed a manhattan and did a comparo between the ed9 and ed10 (better than counting sheep. again, whether it's actually some physical effect of burnin or some pyschological phenom, the ed10s have really opened up and sound like a different iem--i actually give them the edge in overall clarity, probably because the bass is tighter and less prone to blur the mids. in  other respects i agree with your analysis--ed10s have the more forward superior mids, deeeper and more impactful low end, etc. where i still give the edge to the ed 9 is twofold: (1) to my ears, the ed9s reproduce percussion, acoustic guitars and vox in a more natural way, and (2) the soundstage is wider on the ed9 and imaging is actually uncannily accurate for a cheapo--you can place instruments on the stage precisely. both hit significantly above their weight.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@loomisjohnson Glad to hear you're warming up to them. This is exactly why I'm a KZ fanboy. Yes, they probably have too many models, many of which sound alike, but there is enough variety in signatures, quality, and design between many of them to satisfy pretty much anyone looking for a solid cheap-o to toss around.


----------



## Ruben123

I'm warming up for the zs3s, very excited. Never used over the ears in-ears as such (even those cable down), but maybe... These will convert me though. 
Really love the ed9s and the Havis but finding a cheap Havi has already come to a good end in the form of the Monoprice 8320s. Maybe the zs3s are even more HiFi than ed9s with hopefully some sort of the same sound but more hifi-ish. Dang can't wait.


----------



## Willber

I hope you are not disappointed - mine have just turned up and they are faulty (left channel 30% quieter with very little bass).


----------



## Ruben123

I'm warming up for the zs3s, very excited. Never used over the ears in-ears as such (even those cable down), but maybe... These will convert me though. 
Really love the ed9s and the Havis but finding a cheap Havi has already come to a good end in the form of the Monoprice 8320s. Maybe the zs3s are even more HiFi than ed9s with hopefully some sort of the same sound but more hifi-ish. Dang can't wait.

Has anyone perhaps listened to these cheap custom in-earshttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-DIY-UE-Custom-Made-Around-Ear-Earphone-Dual-Unit-In-Ear-Dynamic-HIFI-Headphones/32640320497.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10055_10049_10017_10059_10058_10060_9999_10061_10062_10064,searchweb201603_1&btsid=dd0d405c-5182-4d44-8ecf-f7249e4d15be

And
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/****-UE-Custom-Made-As-UE900-SE846-Around-Ear-Earphone-HIFI-Monitor-Headphones-Noise-Cancelling-Headset/32520404631.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10055_10049_10017_10059_10058_10060_9999_10061_10062_10064,searchweb201603_1&btsid=dd0d405c-5182-4d44-8ecf-f7249e4d15be


----------



## Ruben123

willber said:


> I hope you are not disappointed - mine have just turned up and they are faulty (left channel 30% quieter with very little bass).



Bought mine for $10 so maybe I've got a faulty too. Then they'd be a great use to recable another iem. 

How do you like them besides the faults?


----------



## Willber

Difficult to tell with the faults but the mids and highs seem clear.


----------



## Ruben123

willber said:


> Difficult to tell with the faults but the mids and highs seem clear.




Thanks. Care to open them up and see if they can be fixed?


----------



## Willber

ruben123 said:


> Thanks. Care to open them up and see if they can be fixed?


 
  
 Beyond my skillset, I fear. I shall contact GeekBuying and see what they have to say. They were delayed by a few weeks while the early problems were addressed, so I was told, so I'm not happy.
  
 Edit: GeekBuying, not GearBest.


----------



## smy1

Some reason my zs3 I ordered maybe 10 days ago the seller won't provide me with tracking even though he tells me to be patient about it.....


----------



## Ruben123

Bummer. Mine should be shipped as eBay says. I hope they really are shipped then... And do work well!


----------



## ExabytE

Ordered mine from eBay aswell and it says shipped. Hope they won't be faulty.
 Anyone has a link where to buy those pins if I wish to recable them in the future?


----------



## vapman

Ugh. My order of KZ's just got in..... no ATR. They sent a ED10 instead.
  
 I'll listen to it anyway and post my thoughts on it and the ZS3 but pretty disappointed. was looking forward to hearing the ATR most.


----------



## KipNix

I see mostly positive initial reviews of the ED7 and I'm guessing the Large (or "common" as KZ puts it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) will have more bass. I'm wondering how the sub-bass will be.


----------



## vapman

If the ed7 is like the ed10  it should have good sub bass.
  
 I thought the ED10 was not bad at all for a sub $10 IEM but the ZS3 is the truly impressive one. $20 is huge money for a KZ though, so I was kind of hoping it would be shockingly good for the money. Luckily it holds up and is good enough to keep around. The 2 pin connectors suck and are too difficult  to get the cable in. if it does not fall out on me i will be very happy with these I think. I recently sold my Aurisonics ASG-B and ASG 1.5's, the ZS3 really is basically as good as they are, really.
  
  
 EDIT: The ZS3 is a REALLY good KZ. I was a little hesitant to get it, since it's a bit over $20 and most KZ stuff is under $10, but it really does not disappoint in any way. I think they will break in well. Looking forward to hearing them after about 50-100 hours, only complaint is it seems it is prone to driver flex when putting them in, but not a problem once theyre in. They also REALLY like amping, so people with amps, definitely consider this, even though it's good unamped. I found I was maxing out the volume without an amp though and cranking them when they are amped. They are really fun to listen to. great IEMs all around. You can crank them and jam out.
  
 No noticeable sound difference when switching cables, but at least the one I have on mine right now aren't as sticky as the stock KZ cables. No need for a mic when i'm listening at home so that cable with the mic can stay in my bag. I'm very impressed by the sub bass and mid bass response of these. I will post a photo of them later. The ZS3 is a sure keeper so far though. Amp is certainly recommended.  They like to be turned up loud.


----------



## koroshiya8

I have tried both ED7 original and small size.. they sound the same to me LOL...
 in anycase both are amazing.
  
 i'm expecting my ZS3 to be here this 2 days or so.. hope to be pleasantly surprised again !


----------



## carltonh

loomisjohnson said:


> had trouble sleeping last night, so i mixed a manhattan and did a comparo between the ed9 and ed10 (better than counting sheep. again, whether it's actually some physical effect of burnin or some pyschological phenom, the ed10s have really opened up and sound like a different iem--i actually give them the edge in overall clarity, probably because the bass is tighter and less prone to blur the mids. in  other respects i agree with your analysis--ed10s have the more forward superior mids, deeeper and more impactful low end, etc. where i still give the edge to the ed 9 is twofold: (1) to my ears, the ed9s reproduce percussion, acoustic guitars and vox in a more natural way, and (2) the soundstage is wider on the ed9 and imaging is actually uncannily accurate for a cheapo--you can place instruments on the stage precisely. both hit significantly above their weight.


 
 IMO: The ED10s have a slightly better sound quality, but the ED9 have a more natural sound signature. If you EQ down the 5 KHz on the ED10, they win, otherwise, not.


----------



## vapman

ZS3 once again has to set the standard of how good an IEM can be at such a low price. Get a non-KZ brand cable and you'll be super happy. I use a stock Aurisonics cable.
  
 The fit is great, shape is comfortable, left/right is easy to tell apart, very balanced sound, really better than anything should be at $20. Scales with better amps and sources very nicely.
  
 Will check back in with you guys once this has had about a week straight of burn-in time.


----------



## anticute

vapman said:


> ZS3 once again has to set the standard of how good an IEM can be at such a low price. Get a non-KZ brand cable and you'll be super happy. I use a stock Aurisonics cable.
> 
> The fit is great, shape is comfortable, left/right is easy to tell apart, very balanced sound, really better than anything should be at $20. Scales with better amps and sources very nicely.
> 
> Will check back in with you guys once this has had about a week straight of burn-in time.


 

 How would you compare them to higher priced IEMs?


----------



## vapman

anticute said:


> How would you compare them to higher priced IEMs?


 

 Sound is very close in tone to Aurisonics ASG 2,0 I think. ASG 2.0 is more refined detail.... ZS3 is not lacking at all in musicality or fun sound. It also can take a lot of power and, like with the Sony Ex800st and ASG 2.0, you can feel the air being pushed from an IEM in the sub bass. I am giving these as much power and the same EQ i use on those two IEMs. it is somewhere around 500mW, so the EQ is sub bass +32db with a pre-gain of -22db. On detail and refinement it will never match those IEMs, but on tone & overall sound signature it is very similar. The ASG 2.0 comparison is because it sounds very energetic with anything you listen to, regardless of the song's intensity. And the sub bass... it is excellent. definitely deserving of a review once more broken in.
  
 An interesting note: it deals with clipping far more gracefully than most headphones in this class. The only others I really know can handle sub bass clipping like that and not make that horrible buzzing... all bassheads will know what i'm talking about.


----------



## Ruben123

vapman said:


> Sound is very close in tone to Aurisonics ASG 2,0 I think. ASG 2.0 is more refined detail.... ZS3 is not lacking at all in musicality or fun sound. It also can take a lot of power and, like with the Sony Ex800st and ASG 2.0, you can feel the air being pushed from an IEM in the sub bass. I am giving these as much power and the same EQ i use on those two IEMs. it is somewhere around 500mW, so the EQ is sub bass +32db with a pre-gain of -22db. On detail and refinement it will never match those IEMs, but on tone & overall sound signature it is very similar. The ASG 2.0 comparison is because it sounds very energetic with anything you listen to, regardless of the song's intensity. And the sub bass... it is excellent. definitely deserving of a review once more broken in.
> 
> An interesting note: it deals with clipping far more gracefully than most headphones in this class. The only others I really know can handle sub bass clipping like that and not make that horrible buzzing... all bassheads will know what i'm talking about.



Very excited to hear them. Still have to find a better bargain than the MP8320s which do resolve so many details and sound so well... VE monk (not+) is another great earphone though.


----------



## Mellowship

habarabadabas said:


> Guys.. Is this thing legit? KZ ZS3 for 11 USD. Any thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kz-ZS3-The-Most-Comfortable-Ergonomic-HIFI-Headphones-Two-Styles-Black-F5-/302025271922?var=&hash=item46521bea72mhKMkwZsAnSLWoOTUMEb_PQ


 
 Hey, anyone got their ZS3 from these seller? I could not resist and pulled the trigger on these ones. 9-and-something euros. Hope they are not defectful... 
  
 I also bought the bamboo large ones and some other stuff from AE and Ebay... Just when I was behaving so well controlling the online shopping tendencies...  
  
 But now I'm waiting for some wooden DZAT and VJJB, four KZs (also got a black ED9 and a IE80... ), a new cable for my Tennmak Pros and some new pads for my ATH50. I hate myself...


----------



## loomisjohnson

carltonh said:


> IMO: The ED10s have a slightly better sound quality, but the ED9 have a more natural sound signature. If you EQ down the 5 KHz on the ED10, they win, otherwise, not.


 

 agreed. the ed9 remain a slight favorite, but the ed10 are continuing to evolve....
 how do the ed3 (acme) compare?


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> agreed. the ed9 remain a slight favorite, but the ed10 are continuing to evolve....
> how do the ed3 (acme) compare?


 
  
 I find the ED3c very warm and bassy with pretty relaxed treble for a KZ. Great mids. Bass lacks texture a bit, but it's another well done KZ.


----------



## smy1

My ed7 is in the mail. I will try and give a review by next week when I come back home.

Also I am still waiting on my zs3 and zircon rock sports.


----------



## noef

How do those ZS3s compare to the tennmak pro?


----------



## Sandbox2

noef said:


> How do those ZS3s compare to the tennmak pro?


 
 ^^ same question..
  
 and are the zs3s better than the zs2s?


----------



## vapman

sandbox2 said:


> ^^ same question..
> 
> and are the zs3s better than the zs2s?




I have never heard the tenmak or the zs2.


----------



## Mellowship

noef said:


> How do those ZS3s compare to the tennmak pro?




When my zs3 arrives on the slow ship from asia, i'll let you know.


----------



## vapman

Enjoying DJ Screw with ZS3 and Kenwood G608, aurisonics cable on the ZS3. Awesome sub bass. Awesome everything really.


----------



## rockingthearies

Where can I buy aurisonics cable or do I buy a cheap aurisonics iem and remove the cable?


----------



## vapman

rockingthearies said:


> Where can I buy aurisonics cable or do I buy a cheap aurisonics iem and remove the cable?


 
 Well a "cheap aurisonics" is $150-200....
  
 I had the cable from upgrading the cable of one of my Aurisonics so I had this lying around, but I know you can get them by themselves.  I have seen the same style cable on other IEMs though so I think it is not Aurisonics exclusive, i just don't know where else to find cables just like the Aurisonics ones.
  
 I found them for sale on Ineargear.com for $50 shipped (ASG style is 2pin, Bravo style is MMCX) but for $50 you can surely get a better quality cable. $50 could get you a REALLY nice cable from TaoBao or Aliexpress, just to be clear I would not buy this cable again at $50! At $20 or less sure, if it shipped from within my country... I swear B&H used to sell these Aurisonics cables for $20 but it seems they no longer stock them.
  
 For what its worth I got a Xiaofan cable from Taobao for $40 shipped and it's way nicer than the Aurisonics cable. Those are on my Aurisonics though


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> Well a "cheap aurisonics" is $150-200....
> 
> I had the cable from upgrading the cable of one of my Aurisonics so I had this lying around, but I know you can get them by themselves.  I have seen the same style cable on other IEMs though so I think it is not Aurisonics exclusive, i just don't know where else to find cables just like the Aurisonics ones.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I didn't know aurisonics iems were that expensive but any cable you would recommend?


----------



## vapman

rockingthearies said:


> Thanks! I didn't know aurisonics iems were that expensive but any cable you would recommend?


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/2184195
  
 this is where i got my Xiaofan cable, really super nice, i love it. Anything 2-pin will work.
  
 I bought a 2 pin cable for $10 from AliExpress seller HCKexin once but i only can find MMCX cables there now...


----------



## ming930919

is it just me or is it hard to find replacement cables for ZS3?
  
 They seem to only show cables with the mmcx connector sort of variants or am i missing something?


----------



## Mellowship

ming930919 said:


> is it just me or is it hard to find replacement cables for ZS3?
> 
> They seem to only show cables with the mmcx connector sort of variants or am i missing something?


 
 Is the ZS3 cable connectors the same as Senn's IE80? If so, there are lots of them in AE.


----------



## smy1

I got my ed7, First impression is that the sound quaility is actually pretty good, sounds like a little more detailed and little brighter version of the ATE. The only problem is the huge cable noise when I move.


----------



## vapman

ming930919 said:


> is it just me or is it hard to find replacement cables for ZS3?
> 
> They seem to only show cables with the mmcx connector sort of variants or am i missing something?


 

 It is not hard at all. You just need to be looking for the right connector. Tons of 2-pin cables are on the market. Sometimes the connector is called something different like TF15. that might help you find some.
  

  
  
 If you want to get a REALLY nice custom cable premade there are people like @PETEREK that do great work but that is a $100+ option. If you're trying to stay under $50-60 Aliexpress is good. There is not much in between, it's pretty much sub $50 or over $150.
  
 About the ZS3's stock cable: it's not nearly as noisy when you move around as the usual KZ cables, and the sound quality from it is great too. it is still pretty thick though


----------



## Mellowship

ming930919 said:


> is it just me or is it hard to find replacement cables for ZS3?
> 
> They seem to only show cables with the mmcx connector sort of variants or am i missing something?


 
 You have these
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TPE-Skin-OCC-Earphone-Cable-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE-TF10-SF3-SF5-5EB-5pro-TripleFi-15vm/32414249794.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/With-Earphone-Hook-Silver-Foil-PU-Skin-Cable-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE-TF10-SF3-SF5-5EB/32638701427.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3m-Silver-Plated-5N-OFC-3-5mm-Earphone-cable-with-Mic-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE/32231207405.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-L-Net-Skin-Earphone-cable-For-UE-ULTIMATE-Ears-tf10-Super-fi-3studio-5EB/32317186609.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2m-Custom-Handmade-Cable-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE-TF10-SF3-SF5-5EB-5pro-Earphone-Silver/32241725336.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=73ec41ff-e1b2-4bb5-886f-207284b94a0e&tpp=1


----------



## vapman

mellowship said:


> You have these
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TPE-Skin-OCC-Earphone-Cable-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE-TF10-SF3-SF5-5EB-5pro-TripleFi-15vm/32414249794.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/With-Earphone-Hook-Silver-Foil-PU-Skin-Cable-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE-TF10-SF3-SF5-5EB/32638701427.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3m-Silver-Plated-5N-OFC-3-5mm-Earphone-cable-with-Mic-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE/32231207405.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
> ...


 

 The middle one is no different from the ZS3 stock cable! or at least looks just like it...
  
 I have some of the bottom ones, should try it sometime.


----------



## Mellowship

vapman said:


> The middle one is no different from the ZS3 stock cable! or at least looks just like it...
> 
> I have some of the bottom ones, should try it sometime.


 
 I guess now we know where they got'em from!


----------



## ming930919

vapman said:


> It is not hard at all. You just need to be looking for the right connector. Tons of 2-pin cables are on the market. Sometimes the connector is called something different like TF15. that might help you find some.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


mellowship said:


> You have these
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TPE-Skin-OCC-Earphone-Cable-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE-TF10-SF3-SF5-5EB-5pro-TripleFi-15vm/32414249794.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/With-Earphone-Hook-Silver-Foil-PU-Skin-Cable-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE-TF10-SF3-SF5-5EB/32638701427.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3m-Silver-Plated-5N-OFC-3-5mm-Earphone-cable-with-Mic-For-Ultimate-Ears-UE/32231207405.html?scm=1007.13339.39449.0&pvid=d6968324-009a-48c1-bc4e-baaa9a5a361c&tpp=1
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the help guys! =D


----------



## vapman

Ah, also consider Linum if you're willing to spend $60+, lightest possible  cables out there.


----------



## kza13

hi guys . i just bought my first KZ iem, it's the ED3 youth 'acme' it's very nice looking and it sounds loud and good, but strangely after rolling some of the ear tips, it got pushed so deep and im not sure if i fix it right. i am afraid if it could cause damage to my ear if i do it wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




http://imgur.com/a/7Np4s
 sorry if my camera so bad XD. could you guys take a look if its too deep or not. And also how will it affect the sound? thank you


----------



## Suneth

Any review of  KZ ZS3?


----------



## crabdog

suneth said:


> Any review of  KZ ZS3?


 

http://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zs3-review-best-cheap-earphones-2016


----------



## vapman

suneth said:


> Any review of  KZ ZS3?


 
 I will post mine here soon, about 50 hours burn in ,seems to be breaking in a big, gonna give it another full week of 24/7 burn in, although I love them just as much or more every time I use them.
  
 I am happy with this and no other KZ at all. these rule in every way. They deserve a properly done review and I will do that soon.
  
 The short story of it is that unless you hate feeling the sub-bass, there is no reason not get one. Removing them from your ears can be awkward because they possibly fit a little TOO well.


----------



## Ruben123

vapman said:


> I will post mine here soon, about 50 hours burn in ,seems to be breaking in a big, gonna give it another full week of 24/7 burn in, although I love them just as much or more every time I use them.
> 
> I am happy with this and no other KZ at all. these rule in every way. They deserve a properly done review and I will do that soon.
> 
> The short story of it is that unless you hate feeling the sub-bass, there is no reason not get one. Removing them from your ears can be awkward because they possibly fit a little TOO well.




Could you also shortly compare them to<$30 iems like **** UE, tenmark or for instance joyroom ? Would be nice if you have one of them (or others).


----------



## vapman

ruben123 said:


> Could you also shortly compare them to<$30 iems like **** UE, tenmark or for instance joyroom ? Would be nice if you have one of them (or others).


 

 I honestly have none of those and it would take me a long time to get my hands on any from china. I do not have any interset in keeping/trying them really, so if anyone wouldn't mind lending me a set so I can review it, I would be happy to pay for postage.
  
 KZ's are far far below what I usually pay, I am usually a $200 minimum IEM type guy, so when I find a cheap one I like, I basically stick to it until i find the next best thing that si way cheaper than it ought to be  thats why I compared to Aurisonics & Sony, but any other higher end IEMs i could compare to, i could do more immediately.
  
 The only chinese DIY IEMs i have heard laterly are the Qingyin QT30 and Musicmaker to12.


----------



## Ruben123

vapman said:


> I honestly have none of those and it would take me a long time to get my hands on any from china. I do not have any interset in keeping/trying them really, so if anyone wouldn't mind lending me a set so I can review it, I would be happy to pay for postage.
> 
> KZ's are far far below what I usually pay, I am usually a $200 minimum IEM type guy, so when I find a cheap one I like, I basically stick to it until i find the next best thing that si way cheaper than it ought to be  thats why I compared to Aurisonics & Sony, but any other higher end IEMs i could compare to, i could do more immediately.
> 
> The only chinese DIY IEMs i have heard laterly are the Qingyin QT30 and Musicmaker to12.




That's OK! looking forward to what you think about zs3s


----------



## Suneth

vapman said:


> I will post mine here soon, about 50 hours burn in ,seems to be breaking in a big, gonna give it another full week of 24/7 burn in, although I love them just as much or more every time I use them.
> 
> 
> I am happy with this and no other KZ at all. these rule in every way. They deserve a properly done review and I will do that soon.
> ...


 

 Looking forward to your review. Do you have KZ ATE? if yes ZS3 better than ATE?


----------



## vapman

suneth said:


> Looking forward to your review. Do you have KZ ATE? if yes ZS3 better than ATE?


 

 Yes while I have tried 10+ kinds of KZ IEMs, I have had several (and all versions of) the ATE. I find the ATE-S to have really bad boomy bass... i'm a basshead, i like good refined bass that extends deep and with impact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 WAAAY better than ATE or any other KZ i have heard. 2 pin cable connector is one of the greatest things about it. I am entirely happy with the $20 shipped I spent on the,. I leave them burning in from my computers headphone jack and keep my whole library on shuffle.  these seem to have broken in a tiny bit from a couple days of use and burn in when not in use, i'm gonna give it at least 100ish hours before  giving em a shot for a review. but i can assure you it will be VERY positive. i am very happy with this IEM.
  
 the seller still owes me the ATR so i can figure out what's different about it from the ATE's.  i have had all model of ATE ever made


----------



## Suneth

vapman said:


> Yes while I have tried 10+ kinds of KZ IEMs, I have had several (and all versions of) the ATE. I find the ATE-S to have really bad boomy bass... i'm a basshead, i like good refined bass that extends deep and with impact
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I love my ATE and no doubt im going to love ZS3 too


----------



## vapman

suneth said:


> I love my ATE and no doubt im going to love ZS3 too


 

 out of curiosity whiich version ate do you have?
  
 ATE Silver
 ATE Black
 Ate-S
 ATE with vents


----------



## Suneth

vapman said:


> out of curiosity whiich version ate do you have?
> 
> 
> ATE Silver
> ...


 

 ATE Black (Transparent)
 Is there a big difference between silver and black? and never heard of ATE with vents before


----------



## MuZo2

Got the ZS3 today, I bought them mostly because of their design but they are quite good OTB for the price paid. Slightly V shaped but vocals are quite clear. Need to burnin a bit and try some different tips.
  
 For sports iem they are really good.


----------



## toshvan

Hello, which ATE would you guys recommend for un-amped listening - between those two particular options:
*ATE*  http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216373.html
*ATE-S*  http://www.gearbest.com/sports-fitness-headphones/pp_273535.html
  
 I have sifted through the last 50-70 pages of this thread, I've red _Coil's overview_, but I still can't decide. That particular ATE (in the link above) should supposedly be 3rd gen, how does it compare to the ATE-S?


----------



## Ruben123

S is darker. Both do fine without amp as they're 16 ohms only


----------



## Suneth

toshvan said:


> Hello, which ATE would you guys recommend for un-amped listening - between those two particular options:
> *ATE*  http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216373.html
> *ATE-S*  http://www.gearbest.com/sports-fitness-headphones/pp_273535.html
> 
> I have sifted through the last 50-70 pages of this thread, I've red _Coil's overview_, but I still can't decide. That particular ATE (in the link above) should supposedly be 3rd gen, how does it compare to the ATE-S?


 
 I'd say go with the ATE but i'm a newbie when it comes to audio equipment.


----------



## Suneth

coil said:


> There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
> 
> 1) Silver ATE with vent holes and with black/gold metal cable "reliefs". Driver inside has *red* plastic housing.
> This is my first version:
> ...


 
 I just saw this post. I bought another pair of ATE  from KZ official store on Aliexpress ( i think)  today and it's pending shipment. How generous of them to not wait 24 hours payment verification. lol
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.63.DKmkR3
  
 I'm afraid i will get the 3rd Gen ATE. what should i be worried about the quality?


----------



## Ruben123

Yes


----------



## 1clearhead

Did anyone purchase the *KZ-ATR*.....and how does it compare to the *KZ-ATE*?


----------



## Suneth

ruben123 said:


> Yes


 
 Was that a yes to my question?


----------



## Ruben123

suneth said:


> Was that a yes to my question?




Yes

Lol no kz doesn't have the best quality checks but there's nothing to worry about. The ate is the most sold model I think, if there should be anything wrong with it, you should have heard lots more about it.


----------



## vapman

suneth said:


> ATE Black (Transparent)
> Is there a big difference between silver and black? and never heard of ATE with vents before


 
 I have had all versions and yes there is quite a noticable difference.
  
 silver is MUCH brighter than transparent/black,  both version were made with and without vents, vents increase bass response. so black with vents is my favorite.
  
 i am sad both my ATR ordered got cancelled or had items replaced, not sure what the problem is, but every seller said they ran out of ATR stock and are waiting for more, but I don't think i've seen a single person post about having gotten an ATR. @1clearhead


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> http://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zs3-review-best-cheap-earphones-2016


 

 I concur with this review, a very well thought out iem for $20, probably the best I own at this price for sure. Can't wait to hear the ATR's. Mine arrived stateside on the 8th according to tracking on AliEx


----------



## vapman

Those ZS3 are no joke. I leave them burning in and every time I switch to them to listen I am impressed. Not sure how they got all that sub bass out of a 8mm driver. It's a mystery.


----------



## wastan

mellowship said:


> Hey, anyone got their ZS3 from these seller? I could not resist and pulled the trigger on these ones. 9-and-something euros. Hope they are not defectful...
> 
> I also bought the bamboo large ones and some other stuff from AE and Ebay... Just when I was behaving so well controlling the online shopping tendencies...
> 
> But now I'm waiting for some wooden DZAT and VJJB, four KZs (also got a black ED9 and a IE80... ), a new cable for my Tennmak Pros and some new pads for my ATH50. I hate myself...


 

 I ordered one last week; couldn't really resist at that price. Hopefully they're not factory rejects (especially given KZ's quality control).


----------



## koroshiya8

I've been personally using ZS3 and also selling them for the past 3 days.
 I am glad to say there are no QC issues after selling  a couple of them.
 The common complaints are that there is initially no sound on 1 side, but after re-sitting they are ok. 
 Other than that, some commented that the memory band is a bit awkward..
 Sound Quality wise no one in their right mind actually complaint !
  
 And compared to ATE and ED7 which i have both, the ZS3 is in a different league altogether with superiority in the following;
  
 1. Fit and Seal. I find that the seal is fantastic because of the earpiece shape which just fits very snugly into the ears. I've never used CIEM so i cant compare with the fit, but the fit is the best i've put on. i also noticed in 2 different person that when they put on the IEM and start meddling with the controls in their phones, they couldnt hear me when i speak to them. that's how good the isolation is too.
  
 2. Audio. If the ATE gave you the 'wow' feeling, then multiply it by 3-5 times when you put on the ZS3 because that's just how a layman like me will describe it. The sound is all very balance and have a much better overall resonance as compared to ATE (and ATE(S))
  
 3. Build. Another factor which probably adds slightly to the price. the 'matte' finish is classy, the fonts on the IEM looks designed by an artist.
  
 4. Replaceable cables... Well, that's self explanatory and non-existence for the ATE.


----------



## Willber

> Originally Posted by *koroshiya8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The common complaints are that there is initially no sound on 1 side, but *after re-sitting they are ok.*


 
  
 What does 're-sitting' mean, please? Mine are defective (30% less volume and little bass in the left side).


----------



## koroshiya8

I mean plugging them out and in again. Could be connection issue. But if there is sound but with issues like you mentioned you should ask for a replacement from the seller.


----------



## Suneth

vapman said:


> I have had all versions and yes there is quite a noticable difference.
> 
> 
> silver is MUCH brighter than transparent/black,  both version were made with and without vents, vents increase bass response. so black with vents is my favorite.
> ...


 

 Have you tried with the official KZ store? My ATE is already marked as shipped and it's not even 24 hours past since the payment.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.63.DKmkR3


----------



## SuperMAG

koroshiya8 said:


> I've been personally using ZS3 and also selling them for the past 3 days.
> I am glad to say there are no QC issues after selling  a couple of them.
> The common complaints are that there is initially no sound on 1 side, but after re-sitting they are ok.
> Other than that, some commented that the memory band is a bit awkward..
> ...




How is it compared to other company budget iems like, vjjb k1, dzaf xiaomi hybrid, tenmark pro etc that have similar price.

Also in aliexpress its sold for 20$ while in ebay its sold for 11$. Where did you buy from are ebay selling orignals.

Also how is clarity and seperation on these. Compared to ate vjjb etc lol.


----------



## koroshiya8

suneth said:


> Have you tried with the official KZ store? My ATE is already marked as shipped and it's not even 24 hours past since the payment.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.63.DKmkR3


 
  
 Yes i have.. the initial status will change very fast but after that it gets stuck for 2 weeks or so... just be patient.. it will eventually reach 
 Take the below as example. i ordered on 13 July. received on 26th. About 2 weeks.
  
 2016-07-26

   00:00:00

   Item delivered


  ​
    

   2016-07-26

   00:00:00

   Delivery in progress


  ​
    

   2016-07-18

   00:00:00

   Information Received (This is not an acknowledgment of the physical receipt of the stated Registered Article)


 China
Original Country​
    

   2016-07-26

   20:04:00

   Delivered


  ​
    

   2016-07-26

   12:43:00

   With Delivery Courier (Item accepted by Delivery Courier)


  ​
    

   2016-07-20

   17:13:02

   【SINGAPORE】Arrive at Airport


  ​
    

   2016-07-20

   17:00:00

   【HONGKONG】Hand over to airline


  ​
    

   2016-07-19

   09:39:02

   Shipment Shipped


  ​
    

   2016-07-18

   10:33:00

   Notification of shipment confirmation


  ​
    

   2016-07-18

   10:09:02

   Successful departure from Warehouse


  ​
    

   2016-07-18

   09:39:02

   Warehouse processing complete


  ​
    

   2016-07-17

   21:16:50

   Successful package picked up by Warehouse


----------



## vapman

I know & completely sympathize with wanting to save money where possible, but $20.00 is the absolute highest value you'll see for them, I think it's even a bit less to buy them from the official KZ store or any of the trusted AliExpress sellers, if you're getting them from eBay. of course, if you only have paypal and no credit card to use, inspect pictures & details closely to be sure it's a genuine product.


----------



## Suneth

koroshiya8 said:


> Yes i have.. the initial status will change very fast but after that it gets stuck for 2 weeks or so... just be patient.. it will eventually reach
> Take the below as example. i ordered on 13 July. received on 26th. About 2 weeks.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah Singapore post/4PX takes 10-14 days for delivery. that's insanely fast compared to china post


----------



## Willber

koroshiya8 said:


> I mean plugging them out and in again. Could be connection issue. But if there is sound but with issues like you mentioned you should ask for a replacement from the seller.


 
  
 Thanks, I have tried the cable connections, I am in communication with Gearbest now.


----------



## Deb1995

I recently got my KZ ATE delivered from Ali. According to seller specification impedances of ATE is 16ohm but my box shows 18ohm. 
Is it right that KZ ATE impedance is 18ohm?


----------



## Ruben123

As far as I know all kzs I've seen have the same specs... So it could be anything I guess


----------



## vapman

5 days (about 130 hours) constant burn-in complete: the ZS3 sound as amazing as ever, might honestly leave them for another week of constant burn in, i wonder if they will break in even more and sound even better?
  
  
@Deb1995 2 ohms is negligible. That's more or less within the error margin. I wouldn't fret about it.


----------



## manlapasj13

Hello guys. Is it safe to order kz zs3? I read there was a recall on the first batch!


----------



## Podster

Not sure which batch mine came out of but they are flawless in build/material and especially sound, KZ stepping it up
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just got these and they are off to the burner but not too shabby OOB


----------



## vapman

I bought from trusted seller HCKexin who i asked about the matter, he said they were of the latest batch, and that the recall happened several months ago, so that's how I heard it/why I ordered one.
  
@Podster wow you might be the first one to get your hands on the ATR in here? awaiting the impressions


----------



## Willber

manlapasj13 said:


> Hello guys. Is it safe to order kz zs3? I read there was a recall on the first batch!


 
  
 My set was delayed by a few weeks because of the problems with the first batch. It arrived a few days ago and it is faulty, so I don't know what is going on.


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Not sure which batch mine came out of but they are flawless in build/material and especially sound, KZ stepping it up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do my eyes deceive me or is that the outstanding cable found on the EDse? Hmmm. A better cable might entice me to step up to the ATR depending on their signature.


----------



## Willber

b9scrambler said:


> Do my eyes deceive me or is that the outstanding cable found on the EDse? Hmmm. A better cable might entice me to step up to the ATR depending on their signature.


 
 That looks like the cable on my ATE (both sets), or am I missing something?


----------



## B9Scrambler

.dupe.


----------



## B9Scrambler

willber said:


> That looks like the cable on my ATE (both sets), or am I missing something?


 
  
 The EDse cable looks very similar, but has that same slight sheen I'm seeing on the ATR's cable. It has next to no memory, is very flexible but slightly stiffer than the ATE's cable, and most importantly, isn't even remotely sticky. It is a very good cable imo. Here's hoping @Podster has both and can verify.


----------



## koroshiya8

willber said:


> My set was delayed by a few weeks because of the problems with the first batch. It arrived a few days ago and it is faulty, so I don't know what is going on.


 
 Please share with us if convenient which seller you got from. more importantly how is their response to the faulty cable, are they replacing for u FOC ?


----------



## 1clearhead

manlapasj13 said:


> Hello guys. Is it safe to order kz zs3? I read there was a recall on the first batch!


 

 They're not on recall anymore. You have the green flag to --> go!


----------



## 1clearhead

podster said:


> Not sure which batch mine came out of but they are flawless in build/material and especially sound, KZ stepping it up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am solely depending on you 'Podster'!......please compare them to the ATE's!


----------



## Willber

1clearhead said:


> They're not on recall anymore. You have the green flag to --> go!


 
 Mine were (supposedly) from the second batch and they are faulty. I have been offered a partial refund which I am contesting, especially considering the delay (I ordered them in June!). I shall report back with the outcome.


----------



## 1clearhead

willber said:


> Mine were (supposedly) from the second batch and they are faulty. I have been offered a partial refund which I am contesting, especially considering the delay (I ordered them in June!). I shall report back with the outcome.


 

 Sorry to hear that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hopefully, KZ can show some improvement in their QC department.....Anyone else having these same issues?


----------



## B9Scrambler

They have arrived!! Woot! Working perfectly too.
  

  
 I love how heavily inspired by VSonics VSDx line this packaging is.


----------



## Deb1995

My Ate Vent holes are closed from inside (by some glue)? 
Should I open them for better SQ?!!- Please advice.





vapman Thank you. I measured them and the meter shows around 16-15ohm.


----------



## roy_jones

willber said:


> Mine were (supposedly) from the second batch and they are faulty. I have been offered a partial refund which I am contesting, especially considering the delay (I ordered them in June!). I shall report back with the outcome.


 
  
 Thanks for letting us know. I've been itching to order a pair, but have held back for exactly this reason.  I may order a pair of ed9s instead.  I'm big on ergonomics and liked the shell design of the ZS3.


----------



## Willber

roy_jones said:


> Thanks for letting us know. I've been itching to order a pair, but have held back for exactly this reason.  I may order a pair of ed9s instead.  I'm big on ergonomics and liked the shell design of the ZS3.


 
 I told them I would rather have a replacement than a refund, I'm happy to give them another try.


----------



## roy_jones

Well, I take back what I said about ordering the ED9s, as I'm reading that they're not great for isolation.  Hoping the ATE is better for gym use as the bastards at my gym blast their own garbage music, making it difficult to drown it out.


----------



## roy_jones

willber said:


> I told them I would rather have a replacement than a refund, I'm happy to give them another try.


 
  
 I was going to suggest you order a pair of Vivo ex 800s.  I've got a pair coming and am excited to get them.  They were said to be a good deal at $50, but there's an AE seller who has them for $18 and I *think* they're genuine.


----------



## Willber

roy_jones said:


> I was going to suggest you order a pair of Vivo ex 800s.  I've got a pair coming and am excited to get them.  They were said to be a good deal at $50, but there's an AE seller who has them for $18 and I *think* they're genuine.


 
 Thanks for the tip but the ZS3 are going to be my last IEMs for a while, I've moved into earbud territory (Monk+ and TY Hi-Z so far). I prefer the fit and relative openness, plus the sound is awesome.


----------



## KipNix

I'm interested in hearing if there are anymore ZS3 QC problems.


----------



## vapman

kipnix said:


> I'm interested in hearing if there are anymore ZS3 QC problems.


 
  
 My ZS3 is running 24/7 for nearly 2 weeks now, no problems. last few people i know to have bought ZS3 no problems.


----------



## B9Scrambler

They should, in theory, all be fine now. KZ recalled the launch batch pretty quickly and held off shipping till they were *mostly *all addressed. (I gotcha covered @Willber)


----------



## Willber

b9scrambler said:


> They should, in theory, all be fine now. KZ recalled the launch batch pretty quickly and held off shipping till they were *all* *addressed.


 
 *most 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 ETA - Thanks for the edit B9S, that makes me feel much better!


----------



## Chief Stringer

roy_jones nice profile pic man was listening to Angel from that album on my ATE's the other day, it sounds great on them bass levels just right 
  
  
 Got any quick impressions B9?


----------



## Ruben123

I keep the hopes high but since I got them for $10 I'm afraid they will be faulty, but we'll see...

BTW b9, somewhere I found that you find the edr2s the most HiFi kzs. What do you think now?


----------



## Suneth

ruben123 said:


> I keep the hopes high but since I got them for $10 I'm afraid they will be faulty, but we'll see...
> 
> BTW b9, somewhere I found that you find the edr2s the most HiFi kzs. What do you think now?


 

 Where did you get them for 10$?


----------



## Ruben123

Ebay


----------



## blazinblazin

But clarity wise... my verdict is ZS3 is more clear.


----------



## Willber

willber said:


> Mine were (supposedly) from the second batch and they are faulty. I have been offered a partial refund which I am contesting, especially considering the delay (I ordered them in June!). I shall report back with the outcome.


 

 Full refund received, time to move on. The money is being invested in these puppies:
  
 http://penonaudio.com/Earphones/earbuds/AUGLAMOUR-RX-1


----------



## gwompki

ruben123 said:


> Ebay


 
 I also got them from the 10 dollar ebay seller.  My fingers are crossed as well.  My fear is that KZ unloaded all of the defective units for cheap to recoup some expenses and that might be what we are getting.  Oh well...for 10 bucks I won't feel bad trying to open it up and fix it 
  
 It was marked as shipped Aug 5th, but expected delivery date is Aug 22-Sept 27th 
  
 I have both ED9 and ATE which I enjoy immensely for the price.  Hoping these will be good too.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chief stringer said:


> roy_jones nice profile pic man was listening to Angel from that album on my ATE's the other day, it sounds great on them bass levels just right
> 
> 
> Got any quick impressions B9?


 
  
 These are still VERY early impressions so please take them lightly. So far they seem to have very smooth and relaxed treble, especially compared to the majority of KZs. Quite energetic though. Bass is more prevalent than I was expecting. Still, it's pretty quick and doesn't seem to bleed into the mids, so that's a plus. Midrange is very clear. Great soundstage and imaging. Immediately improved over the ATE/ZS1/ZN1 Mini which were all pretty great.
  


ruben123 said:


> I keep the hopes high but since I got them for $10 I'm afraid they will be faulty, but we'll see...
> 
> BTW b9, somewhere I found that you find the edr2s the most HiFi kzs. What do you think now?


 
  
 Haven't compared them to the EDR2 yet. I might hold off on doing so since my EDR2 doesn't seem to be representative of the majority, at least for now.


----------



## Ruben123

What fascinates me is that there's not so much "up" about the zn1, zs2, hds1 and 3, edr2 and ed3 in all its forms. It seems most people get the ATE or ed9 and never look back (?). 

Thanks b9, hoping the bass won't be too apparent for me though


----------



## B9Scrambler

I surprises me too tbh. The ZN1 Mini is nice, but personally I still prefer my original ZS1 (with brass ring and crossover, both removed in the current revision) by a large margin. The ZN1 sounds veiled. The ZS1 is stupidly bassy yes, but despite that it's very clear, has lovely mids, and sounds a step above the rest of the ZS series. Well, except for the ZS3.
  
 When I tried to inquire about the ZS2 with the only person I know of who had it, my inquiry was met with rabid and aggressive disrespect so I'm left thinking it's going to sound like the ZS1 (current revision) and ZN1 Mini which sound identical.
  
 There are a couple reviews up for the HDS1 (including mine) but the majority of comments simply revolve around them being one of the more neutral KZs. HDS3, well, I don't like how they sound at all. Muddy, overly mid-bassy, lacking clarity. Just blah. At least they're better than the HDS2 which takes all those negatives to another level, though it does have a good soundstage in it's favor.
  
 Comments on the EDR2 are mostly varied from what I can gather. 
  
 The ED3 is all over the place too, probably because there are too many variants and unofficial names. Basically comes down the ED3 Perfection (i.e. original) being neutral-ish with a treble-head tilt, and the ED3 c/Acme/Youth being warm and somewhat bassy. I know there was one other variant, but I can't recall off the top of my head what it's called or how it was supposed to sound.
  
 If you found the EDR2 too bassy, the ZS3 is a bass cannon in comparison (imo).


----------



## pashhtk27

@B9Scrambler I have ZS2 with me. If you want I can try to do a quick comparison with other KZs I have like ATE. I don't have ZS1, ZN1 or ZN mini though.
 Personally I do not like them much, and have never given much thought to them even though they are the most beautiful of all my earphones. They sort of lack the clarity that I get with other earphones and feel slow so don't go very well my music. Haven't been able to find proper tips for them too from my small collection; using them with kz black 'foams'

 Looking forward to more impressions on the ATR, and ED7.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@pashhtk27 Thanks for the offer, but no need. I'm probably going to buy a pair at some point. If you can, try to find some wide bore silicone tips that fit. They're already a fairly dark, bassy earphone. Foams will just exaggerate that and absorb information.


----------



## vapman

The silver ATEs are nothing special to me but there is something very nice and alluring about the sound of a well amped ATE. i don't really have any desire to go back now that the ZS3 is in my lineup.
  
 i am not sure the spiral dots i am using are the best fit for the ZS3 though, as they always end up pushed all the way down after a couple uses.


----------



## roy_jones

chief stringer said:


> roy_jones nice profile pic man was listening to Angel from that album on my ATE's the other day, it sounds great on them bass levels just right
> 
> 
> Got any quick impressions B9?


 
  
 I've got the ATE's arriving in the next few weeks and am excited to try some of these value oriented Chinese IEMs.  I was around when the options were limited and really expensive, and it's amazing to see how far things have come, especially the last four or so years.  I'm curious about how much better the isolation is with the ATE compared to the ED9s as I was contemplating the ED9s and then got turned off after reading that they're poor for isolation. 
  
 I think I'll like the sound sig of the ATE as I need a bassier earphone for the gym.  If I like them, I may order a couple of backup pairs for when I inevitably ruin them with sweat.  Wish there were more reviews of "sports" IEMs in this price bracket.


----------



## SuperMAG

did someone receaved ATR yet, its going around in insane price of 5usd. is the sound similar to ate. if so i will just hit buy now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Damnit...I ordered the ATR. How bad could it be?


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Damnit...I ordered the ATR. How bad could it be?




Very


----------



## SuperMAG

please explain.


----------



## Ruben123

It was a joke my friend, knowing KZ it would be a great IEM.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Do my eyes deceive me or is that the outstanding cable found on the EDse? Hmmm. A better cable might entice me to step up to the ATR depending on their signature.


 

 OK, let me clarify on this, the outside look of the ATR cable appears to look just like the ATE cable but it is slicker and not as gummy as the ATE cable, the brass fishing weights as I call them have been replaced by little black plastic squares which makes the cable much lighter. The brass fittings at the shell are now smoothed out and not as knarly as the original ATE units, them may be just a little smaller and once again helping to make these lighter.
  
 OOTB they are tight and seem to have a smoother and more detailed sound than my Transparent ATE's but I've not really had enough time to A/B these two but will work on it, looks wise the ATR is flat out saxy, I can tell you this I just saw a pair earlier on AliEx for under $8 and I'm still trying to figure out how they can even be breaking even on the puppies!
  

  
 I also forgot to mention the ATR cable is actually thinner than the ATE cable!


----------



## Mellowship

Hey, just got my ZS3 from that ebay shop we were talking about the other day, that was selling them for 11 something USD. They arrived much faster than what I was expecting. And they are not broken. The bass sounds balanced from L to R and everything seems to work just fine.
  
 First impressions: I suspect they are the best KZs so far. You have that WOW factor with every KZ you've tried, but with these, the WOW is just bigger. 
  
 That memory thinhgy on the cable thoug... :S


----------



## smy1

vapman said:


> My ZS3 is running 24/7 for nearly 2 weeks now, no problems. last few people i know to have bought ZS3 no problems.




Do you run it 24/7 with a dap?


----------



## Jeff Graw

Got some ATEs to tide me over while I wait for the PM6es to ship.
  
 The level of sound quality for the price is pretty darn amazing. Surprisingly scales quite well with higher end gear. Mids and highs are great, however the low end is pretty disappointing... a muddy, bloated mess. Not too terrible with bass light content, but puts a big blemish on what would otherwise be an excellent presentation.


----------



## carltonh

mellowship said:


> Hey, just got my ZS3 from that ebay shop we were talking about the other day, that was selling them for 11 something USD. They arrived much faster than what I was expecting. And they are not broken. The bass sounds balanced from L to R and everything seems to work just fine.
> 
> First impressions: I suspect they are the best KZs so far. You have that WOW factor with every KZ you've tried, but with these, the WOW is just bigger.
> 
> That memory thinhgy on the cable thoug... :S


 
 I also just got the $10.99 ZS3 from that Ebay seller tonight. Going through initial testing and it just is sounding awesome, a giant step up from my other KZs...till I come across one of my test songs that hits and holds a strong low C note at 32 Hz. CRAP, there is a very obvious problem with the right earphone buzzing at that frequency. I'd recommend others test theirs too.
  
 Interestingly, the song is Chris Whitley's "Serve You" at about the 19-20 second mark. But it only happens on my FLAC CD rip. The Youtube "high quality" version of it does not cause the problem.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I04-W6DGZ4
  
 So how best to request a replacement from this Ebay seller that ships from Hong Kong?


----------



## vapman

carltonh said:


> I also just got the $10.99 ZS3 from that Ebay seller tonight. Going through initial testing and it just is sounding awesome, a giant step up from my other KZs...till I come across one of my test songs that hits and holds a strong low C note at 32 Hz. CRAP, there is a very obvious problem with the right earphone buzzing at that frequency. I'd recommend others test theirs too.
> 
> Interestingly, the song is Chris Whitley's "Serve You" at about the 19-20 second mark. But it only happens on my FLAC CD rip. The Youtube "high quality" version of it does not cause the problem.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I04-W6DGZ4
> ...


 

 i would message them and make it clear you want to replace it, if it doesn't work out then use ebay's system for it. i have definitely done many bass heavy test tones & other test tracks and have no buzzing, so i recommend you get yours replaced. i bought mine from a trusted seller on aliexpress for $20. maybe the $10.99 ones are leftovers from the recall?


----------



## Ruben123

I wouldn't replace it... I've been **** so many times on eBay by this. The PayPal protection runs out so sellers most often DON'T send another package because you can't ask a refund via PayPal anymore. Best to say is that it didn't ever arrive, ask refund, and buy a new. I agree that's not how you should be doing it but I can assure you that the replies from the seller after a new sending are annoying as hell. "Please wait few more days" "I really shipped it be patient" etc though why always arrives everything the first time but not a second time?


----------



## vapman

ruben123 said:


> I wouldn't replace it... I've been **** so many times on eBay by this. The PayPal protection runs out so sellers most often DON'T send another package because you can't ask a refund via PayPal anymore. Best to say is that it didn't ever arrive, ask refund, and buy a new. I agree that's not how you should be doing it but I can assure you that the replies from the seller after a new sending are annoying as hell. "Please wait few more days" "I really shipped it be patient" etc though why always arrives everything the first time but not a second time?


 

 while it's not KZ related, paypal protection doesn't run out if ebay decides not in your favor. paypal protection is still there for the 120 or 180 days, whatever it is.


----------



## Ruben123

vapman said:


> while it's not KZ related, paypal protection doesn't run out if ebay decides not in your favor. paypal protection is still there for the 120 or 180 days, whatever it is.




Wow really? I've always been told that paypal only protects 60 days! Of it's more in just NOW going to get at least some money back!


----------



## Ruben123

I know Ive said this before, but I find my ED9s to be warm (quite similar sounding to VE Monk [not Plus]). Now and then I keep reading reviews of people who find the ED9 to be treble hot etc., but once more: close the vents in the brass filter, which are supposed to be closed!! (I think) Just push them at the filter with a tooth stick or something.
  
 They sure dont sound as neutral any more, but much better instead.


----------



## ronniebra

Where are tehy being sold for $5?


----------



## SuperMAG

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EPULA-100-Newest-KZ-ATR-3-5mm-Dynamic-In-Ear-Earphone-Stereo-Bass-HIFI-Earbuds-Headset/32697192306.html
  
 http://www.everbuying.net/product1204561.html
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html?wid=21


----------



## kiler

Anyone else liked the translucent ATE casing more? 
  
 And these seem to be a lower tier ATE...


----------



## Mellowship

kiler said:


> Anyone else liked the translucent ATE casing more?
> 
> And these seem to be a lower tier ATE...


 
 The translucent case ATE with that neat copper lid on the driver and a good cable with no mic or counterweights (like the cable on EDse or even ED9), and the venting hole. Isso seria fixe.


----------



## Chief Stringer

roy_jones said:


> I've got the ATE's arriving in the next few weeks and am excited to try some of these value oriented Chinese IEMs.  I was around when the options were limited and really expensive, and it's amazing to see how far things have come, especially the last four or so years.  I'm curious about how much better the isolation is with the ATE compared to the ED9s as I was contemplating the ED9s and then got turned off after reading that they're poor for isolation.
> 
> I think I'll like the sound sig of the ATE as I need a bassier earphone for the gym.  If I like them, I may order a couple of backup pairs for when I inevitably ruin them with sweat.  Wish there were more reviews of "sports" IEMs in this price bracket.


 

 Id say the ED10s have the best isolation but with the foam tips its not bad on the ATE at all, IMO the ATEs come alive with an amp, i used to Fiio A3 which does a good enough job of waking them up and providing plenty of power, the bass is quite heavy hitting on songs that require it, if they had abit more upper bass they would perhaps be better for dance music with a constant kick but they not bad for it at all, and for stuff like Mezzanine they sound great i think. They can also go loud with an amp too if required, i feel like many of the reviews on aliexpress where people say they only sound okay are just plugging them straight into they phone if i had too guess


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Podster Thanks for clearing up the difference in cables for me. I think I'm one of the few that really like KZ's "gut-like" cables, to quote Sir Chumly of Audio-budget. The only one I don't like is the HSD1/HDS2's. Too thin which combined with a sticky texture is not confidence inspiring.
  
 Sooooo...I sent a couple hours last night with the ZS3 when I really should have been listening to something else. Alas, 'tis the curse of the love of budget equipment. I've decided that the ZS3 is a very good earphone, but it really doesn't bring much to the table that you haven't heard before from KZ. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just may not be the huge leap forward us KZ fans wanted. What do I mean by this?
  
 1. It's a bass cannon: Just feel the thunder in the opening seconds of Kavinsky's new track Solli (questionable track, but it's gets my point across);
  

  
 Lots of mid-bass, lots of sub-bass, just lots of bass in general. It's of good quality so I'm not complaining, but it's still a bassy earphone, full-stop. It's like a toned down ZS1 Original with a more even mid/sub-bass balance.
  
 2. I spent a while a/bing with the EDR2 which seems to easily pull ahead in detail and clarity. ZS3 is smoother though. The EDR2 comes across a bit grainy in comparison.
  
 3. The mid-range is excellent and while overshadowed a bit by the bass, is probably the ZS3's best aspect. Forward, natural, clear and detailed. Can't go wrong. 
  
 To me they're almost a cross between the EDR2 (treble), ATE (mids), ZS1 Original (bass), with a larger soundstage than any of them. All three of those are in my top 5 (or 6) KZs. Translation? The ZS3 is great, but if looking for a budget "audiophile" sound from KZ I still think the EDR2 or ED3 Perfection are your best bet. The ZS3 is just way too bassy.


----------



## Chief Stringer

kiler said:


> Anyone else liked the translucent ATE casing more?
> 
> And these seem to be a lower tier ATE...


 
  
 Yeah i think they look great, havn't seen any other ATE models in person though


----------



## Chief Stringer

b9scrambler said:


> @Podster Thanks for clearing up the difference in cables for me. I think I'm one of the few that really like KZ's "gut-like" cables, to quote Sir Chumly of Audio-budget. The only one I don't like is the HSD1/HDS2's. Too thin which combined with a sticky texture is not confidence inspiring.
> 
> Sooooo...I sent a couple hours last night with the ZS3 when I really should have been listening to something else. Alas, 'tis the curse of the love of budget equipment. I've decided that the ZS3 is a very good earphone, but it really doesn't bring much to the table that you haven't heard before from KZ. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just may not be the huge leap forward us KZ fans wanted. What do I mean by this?
> 
> ...




  
 Yoou've made me excited man, given that ive heard and loved the ATE and ZS1 my question would be whats the EDR2s treble like compared to the gold tip ED9?


----------



## B9Scrambler

F yeah! Nice review @Nymphonomaniac; http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs1-in-ear-monitors/reviews/16669
  
@Chief Stringer I have a very love/hate relationship with the ED9 and their treble especially. I find it to be exceptionally splashy and uncontrolled. To me personally, there isn't much comparison. The EDR2 is tighter, more detailed, and better extended than the ED9 (either filter configuration, but I use Gold primarily). As a side note, I tossed on the ED8 and listened to that Kavinsky track. To my utter shock, the EDR2 has better bass extension (a ton less presence though)...hot damn, that's insane!


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> @Podster
> Thanks for clearing up the difference in cables for me. I think I'm one of the few that really like KZ's "gut-like" cables, to quote Sir Chumly of Audio-budget. The only one I don't like is the HSD1/HDS2's. Too thin which combined with a sticky texture is not confidence inspiring.
> 
> Sooooo...I sent a couple hours last night with the ZS3 when I really should have been listening to something else. Alas, 'tis the curse of the love of budget equipment. I've decided that the ZS3 is a very good earphone, but it really doesn't bring much to the table that you haven't heard before from KZ. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just may not be the huge leap forward us KZ fans wanted. What do I mean by this?
> ...




 Dang!!!  hoped it was more neutral. And it was said to be the best to date. Gotta pass it to my brother then.
Now we're (me) spending money: ed3 perfection, how does it compare to ed9 brass? I find mine warm as you know but I've maybe closed the vents more than anyone else. 
Also I liked edr2s mids and treble but found them just a bit too bassy: how is that compared to the ed3s?


----------



## SuperMAG

Did anyone recieve atr yet. Is it aimilar to ate or better. Someone share some expressions please.


----------



## Mellowship

The slow boat from china is sailing rather fast these days. 3 consecutive days finding IEMs in the mailbox. The first was a VJJB K4 (they are great), and then the ZS3 and today, the beautiful black ED9.


----------



## koroshiya8

mellowship said:


> The slow boat from china is sailing rather fast these days. 3 consecutive days finding IEMs in the mailbox. The first was a VJJB K4 (they are great), and then the ZS3 and today, the beautiful black ED9.


 
  


mellowship said:


> The slow boat from china is sailing rather fast these days. 3 consecutive days finding IEMs in the mailbox. The first was a VJJB K4 (they are great), and then the ZS3 and today, the beautiful black ED9.
> 
> 
> ]
> ...


----------



## lohjiahung

I have heard that the ZS3s are mediocre on bad quality audio files, but is it alright for the average smartphone music listener? I am choosing between the ATR, ATE, ATE-S and ZS3 for a friend who listens to pop/electronic music and likes the bass, but prefers balanced mids and highs as well.
 Has anyone put out their impressions of the ATR yet? I'm thinking of picking one up myself but I already have a pair of ATEs.


----------



## Mellowship

koroshiya8 said:


>


 
  
 The ZS3 seems good. Didn't have the chance to do some critical listening yet. Having heard of some positive remarks about the comfort fitting, I personally think they are way to big and the cable should have an angled 2pin jack pointing behind.


----------



## koroshiya8

mellowship said:


> The ZS3 seems good. Didn't have the chance to do some critical listening yet. Having heard of some positive remarks about the comfort fitting, I personally think they are way to big and the cable should have an angled 2pin jack pointing behind.


 
 After listening for a couple of hours, i will agree with the following;
  
 1. Source is very important.. somehow seems too warm and unclear mid if quality is compromised. In short it's a bit of hit or miss. For e.g,. if you listen through your mobile phone on mp3 or spotify it may not suit you.
  
 2. The fit... first class design of the housing ensures it stays and seal perfectly into your ears.. need to try to believe.
  
 3. the 2 pins are pretty thin so must be easy when plug in to the housing.
  
 4. If you listen side by side with ATE, it's immediately very clear that ATE focus more on vocals while the ZS3 emphasies more on the bass and more colored. For critical listening ATE is definitely the choice.
  
  
 what i am more curious is what custom cable will improve the sound.. i know there are tonns available but they definitely add up to the cost of having a very affordable piece of IEM.. is it worth the 'upgrade'.


----------



## gwompki

Just curious if anyone in the US who ordered the ZS3 from the 10 dollar eBay seller had received theirs yet. I ordered on the 5th so have no clue when I should expect it. Seller disnt provide tracking, but eBay estimate was delivery from Aug 30- September 27.


----------



## koroshiya8

gwompki said:


> Just curious if anyone in the US who ordered the ZS3 from the 10 dollar eBay seller had received theirs yet. I ordered on the 5th so have no clue when I should expect it. Seller disnt provide tracking, but eBay estimate was delivery from Aug 30- September 27.


 
  
 I would think they are sending you from China and usually it takes about 3 weeks to reach. Even if there is tracking it will not be accurate in the sense that it will be stuck at certain status until the day it really reaches your state


----------



## gwompki

Thanks! I will remain patient in that case. I haven't ordered from China many times before so wasn't quite sure what to expect.


----------



## SuperMAG

ok, looking to buy two headphones for my little bro and sis, both have same preference. They want something that's has the best Vocals, crystal clear detail, good bass and treble while not very fatiguing, easy to drive with just headphone, tablets and laptops and long lasting, preferably more than 6 months. My sis previously owned LG quickbeat 2 which she said the best headphone she ever heard and my bro used Panasonic RP-HJE120-K which he also liked very much.
  
 Their budget is just mere 5$ and nothing more lol, i tried to increase their budget but its impossible, they think i am nuts about headphones and they dont wanna spend more. After reading this thread and headfi in general, found out if you are on an extreme budget and wanna the best quality for price, KZ is your answer.
  
 Currently i have in my cart that are 5 usd or less are:
  
*KZ ATR*, waited long enough for someone to post some expressions but apparently no one got this but i am hoping its exactly like ATE or better and since ATE is everything that i want as described by people here and considered benchmark.
  
*KZ HDS1*
  
*KZ ED3*
  
*Piston 3 Colorful*, i bought this few months ago, it was clear headphones and i don't remember much, but the jack was faulty and stopped working after just 2 months.
  
 i tried to hold out as long as possible to wait for few reviews about atr but they want to order asap. lol, what do you guys think.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Which ED3 are those? Do they come in either red or blue? If you can choose one of those colors, go for it. If silver only....they're not the KZ you are looking for.


----------



## Mellowship

koroshiya8 said:


> After listening for a couple of hours, i will agree with the following;
> 
> 1. Source is very important.. somehow seems too warm and unclear mid if quality is compromised. In short it's a bit of hit or miss. For e.g,. if you listen through your mobile phone on mp3 or spotify it may not suit you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. Source and mids - I am also having this impression. I've been using them with a Sansa Clip Zip for an hour, now I changed to the Fiio X3II, same track, same format, and the mids seem to have opened a little bit.
  
 2. The housings do look interesting, but they seem to be a possible approach to a custom IEM design, with all thoses curves and the way they are expected to fit in one's ears. Well, I don't have a problem with the seal (after some tip-rolling, opted for large silicone tips that came from my Xiaomi hybrids). But they just don't feel right. They don't hurt, but I think that my ear is not aligned with those weird forms. I tend to rotate it a little bit clockwise (reference to right ear) so that it sits perfectly in the cavity, but that long thinghy at the bottom levers it the other way. I end up with the cable sitting somewhat far from the ear contour. Maybe with a picture you'll get what I'm talking about. Jeez, I'll have to trim those hairs... 
  

  
 4.Comparing to the ATE, the ZS3 sound more "lively", more bassy, but with a less muddy bass than the ATE's. I wouldn't say these are "basshead" IEMs, but they have quite a punch. 
 With good source and files, I'm enjoying these pretty much. 
  
 Meanwhile, I tested them with the same songs in my Nokia Lumia 925... comming from Fiio to the smartphone, the mids do really suffer. and the general impression is that everything gets somewhat messy and congested. I guess the ZS3 needs some amount of power to behave well. I would not recommend it to use with your regular smartphone or little chinese DAP. Go for your amps and big DAPs!  
  
 (album used for this small impression: Sufjan Stevens - Greetings from Michigan , FLAC).


----------



## SuperMAG

b9scrambler said:


> Which ED3 are those? Do they come in either red or blue? If you can choose one of those colors, go for it. If silver only....they're not the KZ you are looking for.


 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-100-genuine-high-quality-principle-KZED3-Metal-Earphone-Bass-Headset-Phone-Music-Headset-HIFI/32370457273.html
  
 they are from hck, in the back its written perfection and these from another seller blue with acne written. 
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-In-ear-Earphone-Stereo-HiFi-Headphones-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Bass-Auriculares-3/32654589068.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10037_10055_10054_301_10059_10033_10058_10032_10017_10060_9999_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_413_10050_10051,searchweb201603_3&btsid=dc8d4a59-43a5-4137-8fcf-93e56bcef429
  
  
 which of these 3 better and are they really better than the Infamous KZ ATE, HDS1 and Piston colorful.


----------



## B9Scrambler

supermag said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-100-genuine-high-quality-principle-KZED3-Metal-Earphone-Bass-Headset-Phone-Music-Headset-HIFI/32370457273.html
> 
> they are from hck, in the back its written perfection and these from another seller blue with acne written.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The first pair are the original ED3 which are very bright, not too bassy. Probably not what your relatives would be after.
  
 The second pair are the ED3c which were heavily revised. Housings are still metal, but are MUCH lighter. Sound is warmer, bassier, with really nice mids and relaxed treble. Still offer up good detail. 
  
 Out of all the KZs listed the ED3c imo is the one to go for.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ED3-In-ear-Earphone-Stereo-HiFi-Headphones-Noise-Cancelling-Ear-Buds-Bass-Auriculares-3/32654589068.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10037_10055_10054_301_10059_10033_10058_10032_10017_10060_9999_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_413_10050_10051,searchweb201603_3&btsid=dc8d4a59-43a5-4137-8fcf-93e56bcef429


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Dang!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Missed this! My b.
  
 I can't find my brass filters....crap. If I remember correctly the ED3 is brighter and much less bassy than the ED9(b) with the papers properly in place. Keeping in mind that I don't find my EDR2 bassy, I noticed that the ED3 has more midbass presence but doesn't have anywhere near the subbass extension.


----------



## SuperMAG

bright, nah i agree, they wont like that, what about hds1 and ate. i heard ate is the most smoothest and natural one.


----------



## B9Scrambler

supermag said:


> bright, nah i agree, they wont like that, what about hds1 and ate. i heard ate is the most smoothest and natural one.


 
 HDS1 is pretty neutral. A bit of a mid-bass boost. They might like it. I've only got the original ATE and it's about as neutral as the HDS1. This one with the smoked shell seems to be the popular one to get. Others could give you better feedback on it;
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.p2fxfA&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_8,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10037_10055_10054_301_10059_10033_10058_10032_10017_10060_9999_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_413_10050_10051,searchweb201603_9&btsid=cbd235de-2005-4244-b494-10717b1669fe
  
 On a side note, the seller explains the differences between the ATE and ATR in that link. The important part; "The ATE with more bass and sound field is wider."


----------



## Mellowship

supermag said:


> bright, nah i agree, they wont like that, what about hds1 and ate. i heard ate is the most smoothest and natural one.


 
 Personally, I don't like the HDS1. I think they lack presence and brightness. They are not neutral. They are flat and dull. Today I was testing them with my wife's Clip Zip, against TDK MT300 (her beloved iphone earbuds broke down and I'm looking within my collection for small IEMs for her to use), and the TDKs were just far superior in every aspect. 
 The ATEs are a different story. Smooth, natural, timbrically accurate, a little bit muddy in some bass but otherwise very competent in the mids and with some tube-like treble. The ATE are classic budget IEMs for many years to come. 
 Are there better ones? Depends on one's taste. The ED9 and the EDse are among my favourite KZs. Outside of the KZ universe, the VJJB K4, the Tennmak Pro, the Soundmagic ES18, the Moxpad X6, all great sub-20USD IEMs.


----------



## Podster

Well for me you answered a lot of the questions in the FLAC vs. High res. file, it's not the ZS 3 if the buzzing sound is not in the high res version! It's the media file itself like so many other I've found, there is some truth to gear being forgiving but no gear especially headphones/iem's can overcome a bad file recording

Sorry, thought I had quoted and was replying to Carlton 3 pages back Dang phone app


----------



## Mellowship

podster said:


> Well for me you answered a lot of the questions in the FLAC vs. High res. file, it's not the ZS 3 if the buzzing sound is not in the high res version! It's the media file itself like so many other I've found, there is some truth to gear being forgiving but no gear especially headphones/iem's can overcome a bad file recording
> 
> Sorry, thought I had quoted and was replying to Carlton 3 pages back Dang phone app


 
  
 Only very cheap and badly built components are forgiving to bad recordings. If the hardware is made right, the better the recording, the better it sounds. The inverse is also true. The super-compressed albums from the mid-nineties onwards, the loudness wars, the badly ripped mp3, there is no good hardware that can forgive the lack of bandwidth/dinamic range and at the same time be able to play the good recordings with competence. I don't think that a compromise is possible from the hardware behalf. Only with good recordings, masterings and conversions!


----------



## lohjiahung

mellowship said:


> Meanwhile, I tested them with the same songs in my Nokia Lumia 925... comming from Fiio to the smartphone, the mids do really suffer. and the general impression is that everything gets somewhat messy and congested. I guess the ZS3 needs some amount of power to behave well. I would not recommend it to use with your regular smartphone or little chinese DAP. Go for your amps and big DAPs!


 
 Does it make the ZS3 a bad choice for a user who will only listen to 320kbps music on their smartphone?


----------



## Mellowship

lohjiahung said:


> Does it make the ZS3 a bad choice for a user who will only listen to 320kbps music on their smartphone?


 
 The first time I tried them, it was on my Fiio X3II. They sounded amazing right from the beginning. Made me think they were the best KZs ever. Today I was doing some testings on other devices, namely the Sansa Clip and a Lumia, and I was a little disappointed on how they sounded. Back to the Fiio, and they were good again. I guess they are power-hungry. 
 Maybe if you don't have a previous reference about the way they should sound, you'll be fine with a smartphone.


----------



## B9Scrambler

They sound fine out of a fairly powerful cellphone, like the HTC One M8. Stuff with a weaker amp doss not sound so hot. They do like to be amped though, no doubt.


----------



## pashhtk27

supermag said:


> bright, nah i agree, they wont like that, what about hds1 and ate. i heard ate is the most smoothest and natural one.


 

 I agree with B9scrambler, get the ED3c for siblings - the colored one. It goes well with modern music and has good amount of energy and clarity, and bass. Ate is better for softer music in my opinion.


----------



## SuperMAG

After spending the last 3 hours reading this topic by doing searches etc, i came to a conclusion that HDS1 is the most neutral and ATE is the best suited. So thinking of buying HDS1 and ATE *have to pay above their price though*.
  
 If only i can buy the monoprice 8320 which is sold for 3usd lol, *it does not ship to here, or at least u have to pay 20usd extra*.


----------



## Ruben123

supermag said:


> After spending the last 3 hours reading this topic by doing searches etc, i came to a conclusion that HDS1 is the most neutral and ATE is the best suited. So thinking of buying HDS1 and ATE *have to pay above their price though*.
> 
> If only i can buy the monoprice 8320 which is sold for 3usd lol, *it does not ship to here, or at least u have to pay 20usd extra*.




Try Amazon in another country. Amazon in other countries than us can sometimes ship for less


----------



## SuperMAG

Thanks. Checked many places but no luck. Will pull the trigger on ate and hds1 soon unless someone suggests better option.


----------



## carltonh

podster said:


> Well for me you answered a lot of the questions in the FLAC vs. High res. file, it's not the ZS 3 if the buzzing sound is not in the high res version! It's the media file itself like so many other I've found, there is some truth to gear being forgiving but no gear especially headphones/iem's can overcome a bad file recording
> 
> Sorry, thought I had quoted and was replying to Carlton 3 pages back Dang phone app


 
 Actually, that's backwards. It buzzed on the high quality FLAC, but not on the Youtube version. However, with burn-in, the buzzing has already decreased to imperceptible levels, which is odd, burn-in isn't usually that radical. I still requested a refund. The seller offered only $5, but I'll take it since I'll keep and still use the earphones. Nevertheless, I'm still ordering another set from a different seller.


----------



## vapman

carltonh said:


> Actually, that's backwards. It buzzed on the high quality FLAC, but not on the Youtube version. However, with burn-in, the buzzing has already decreased to imperceptible levels, which is odd, burn-in isn't usually that radical. I still requested a refund. The seller offered only $5, but I'll take it since I'll keep and still use the earphones. Nevertheless, I'm still ordering another set from a different seller.


 

 Interesting as this is how i (mis)-read your initial post. If the buzzing is only on the flac, be sure no DSP or equalizer is enabled, if it can't be solved maybe keep them around for beaters or practicing to solder


----------



## Talcyh

gwompki said:


> Just curious if anyone in the US who ordered the ZS3 from the 10 dollar eBay seller had received theirs yet. I ordered on the 5th so have no clue when I should expect it. Seller disnt provide tracking, but eBay estimate was delivery from Aug 30- September 27.




Ordered mine from EBay too. Tracking number useless. Delivery date came and went. Seller refunded very/too quickly without any fuss. I suspect the 'phones were never ever sent, for whatever reason. 
Since ordered on Amazon Prime. Nearly twice the price but got here next day. Love the sound from the earphones - 'comfort' listening but feel the fit never quite perfect, certainly compared to XE800 which are fit and forget. Bit too bulky. Agree about a good quality source file needed. The earpieces also come away from the cable easily. Good that it reduces risk of damage to the pins but bad when you suddenly find a cable with only one earpiece and no idea where the other became detached. YMMV.


----------



## Ruben123

talcyh said:


> Ordered mine from EBay too. Tracking number useless. Delivery date came and went. Seller refunded very/too quickly without any fuss. I suspect the 'phones were never ever sent, for whatever reason.
> Since ordered on Amazon Prime. Nearly twice the price but got here next day. Love the sound from the earphones - 'comfort' listening but feel the fit never quite perfect, certainly compared to XE800 which are fit and forget. Bit too bulky. Agree about a good quality source file needed. The earpieces also come away from the cable easily. Good that it reduces risk of damage to the pins but bad when you suddenly find a cable with only one earpiece and no idea where the other became detached. YMMV.




So I should contact my seller too I guess... It's also becoming time for it to be delivered.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Missed this! My b.
> 
> I can't find my brass filters....crap. If I remember correctly the ED3 is brighter and much less bassy than the ED9(b) with the papers properly in place. Keeping in mind that I don't find my EDR2 bassy, I noticed that the ED3 has more midbass presence but doesn't have anywhere near the subbass extension.




No probs my friend  as you find both "audiophile" earphones, which would you then recommend? I think subbass ruins ("ruins") the music less for me than midbass but only having heard the edr2 I find it hard to make a good decision about it. But when it's less bassy -again - than the ed9b, then it'd be a good choice perhaps


----------



## Talcyh

ruben123 said:


> So I should contact my seller too I guess... It's also becoming time for it to be delivered.


I would once the quoted date has past. It's your money after all.


----------



## crabdog

New KZ Bluetooth phones. Jump in if you dare!
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Newest-KZ-Bluetooth-Earphone-KZ-HDSE-Bluetooth-4-1-Headset-Hifi-Wireless-Headphone-APTX-Lossless-Music/2178200_32718618290.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

Whaaaat!!! F yes. I'm in. Gearbest better carry them because I'm not touching AliExpress after my last few experiences. Bleh.


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> Whaaaat!!! F yes. I'm in. Gearbest better carry them because I'm not touching AliExpress after my last few experiences. Bleh.


 
 Strange, my AE experience just keeps getting better


----------



## B9Scrambler

My most recent: they sent the wrong product and forgot to include another.
  
 The one before that took more than 1/4 of the year to arrive. Shipping is not necessarily their fault, but the tracking number wasn't valid at any point, it apparently sat at Canadian Customs for 3 months (very, very unlikely), and they b**ched at me when I opened a dispute (more than a month past the time buyers are allowed to dispute, AND with advanced notice of the date I would open the dispute) asking for a refund. They already had my money and I went without a product for four months. It was supposed to be a gift for a birthday that happened two months prior.
  
 At that point it's not my problem. Issue the refund or send another product, deal with the shipping issues internally, and don't harass your customer for expecting you do follow the time frames you yourself set. Gearbest, so far, has been reliable for me. Shipping quicker as well, though packages seem to arrive in worse shape. My LZ A2S box was pretty mashed, haha.


----------



## nelly

Hey guys long time lurker first time poster lol. Thanks to you guys I brought my first pair of IEM's KZ ed9s. I love them apart from one problem the tips feel horrible and constantly keep falling out of my ears I have tried every size medium seems to fit my ears best but they still keep on falling out and I am getting fed up with having to shove them back in. I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations of foam tips or something that could work better? I was thinking of something like these but unsure if they would be suitable?
  
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/C-set-4-9mm-Caliber-Earphone-Sponge-Comply-T200-T400-T500-tips-Headset-Memory-Foam-Sponge/32469980958.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10037_10055_10054_301_10059_10033_10058_10032_10017_10060_10061_10052_414_10062_10053_413_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=8467f1ff-f330-4f00-8c7c-84f970f0cc52
  
 Would really appreciate some advice these sound amazing (to me) but having to shove them back in my ears every 30 seconds or so is ruining an otherwise pleasurable experience, thanks.


----------



## Ruben123

Almost three weeks ago I ordered the zs3s, been hoping to "get them today" since a week but they're being picked up by the postman in China just now! There goes the long wait... Hope the reason it took so long was to send me a working pair


----------



## koroshiya8

The ZS3 glossy version arrived today... ..
  
 The quality and specs are supposed to be the same as the matte version but somehow i feel the soundstage is better and less bassy than the matte version...


----------



## Mellowship

koroshiya8 said:


> The ZS3 glossy version arrived today... ..
> 
> The quality and specs are supposed to be the same as the matte version but somehow i feel the soundstage is better and less bassy than the matte version...


 
 Gosh... I didn't knew they made a glossy version of it... looks fine! Where thid you get them from?


----------



## MuZo2

Didnt know there was a glossy version too.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Whaaaat!!! F yes. I'm in. Gearbest better carry them because I'm not touching AliExpress after my last few experiences. Bleh.


 
 I have never had a bad experience with AliEx in 3 years now but I do stay with the same sellers usually!


----------



## koroshiya8

muzo2 said:


> Didnt know there was a glossy version too.


 
 hi, i got it from Aliexpress.. i usually choose the one with best ratings LOL..


----------



## vapman

podster said:


> I have never had a bad experience with AliEx in 3 years now but I do stay with the same sellers usually!


 

 Out of 30+ purchases, I only had 2 bad experiences on Ali. Bother times I decided to buy from a store I never bought from before and nobody here had used. With one the item never showed up and I had to make a dispute to get my money back. With the other one the seller cursed me out for posting an honest (read: not all 5 stars with not a single complaint) review. that is well documented in the Chinese brands thread and at least one other head-fi'er got a barrage of curse words as well for refusing to post an all 5 star review.
  
 Moral of the story, stick with the sellers everyone knows and trusts, and you'll be a happy customer.


----------



## smy1

My zs3 and rock zircon sport has been stuck in the "Processed through the facility" in ems for the past 8-10 days. 

Is this normal?


----------



## turtuv

Hi guys, I'm about to buy a new earphones. I would like to know what are the differences between ATE-S and ZS1. Thanks! I will use it during sport activity.


----------



## Podster

They are from the sane sound signature house.however (at least for me) the ATE will give you a more even sound as the ZS leans to the bass side. With that said some found the ZS1 to be too bass heavy. I also think one can use EQ on budget iem's to great results


----------



## turtuv

podster said:


> They are from the sane sound signature house.however (at least for me) the ATE will give you a more even sound as the ZS leans to the bass side. With that said some found the ZS1 to be too bass heavy. I also think one can use EQ on budget iem's to great results




So do you think that the ATE are better? I like a full bass sound tho  are there huge differences between ATE's bass and ZS1's bass? And what about the differences between ATE-S and ATE?


----------



## koroshiya8

KS3 matte and glossy side by side.


----------



## Ruben123

You sure they sound different? That would be interesting...


----------



## koroshiya8

ruben123 said:


> You sure they sound different? That would be interesting...


 
  
 need to do more critical listening but i think not.. they are just physically differnet surface.
 The glossy gives a bit cooling feeling to the ear though LOL.


----------



## vapman

Gave my ED10 to a friend who has nearly destroyed his KZ ATE's cable by biking. He previously managed to break some ED9's in the same way. Hardcore cycling.
  
 I showed him the zs3 and he liked it a lot. If he breaks the ED10 before it dies of natural causes (the first one with a mic he's got yet) i will recommend the zs3 to him for sure. My only complaint about them is how hard to get out they are.


----------



## MuZo2

vapman said:


> My only complaint about them is how hard to get out they are.


 
 You mean ZS3 ? You have to use CIEM technique for inserting and removing them.


----------



## vapman

muzo2 said:


> You mean ZS3 ? You have to use CIEM technique for inserting and removing them.


 

 yes, and yes. it's just that CIEM technique is still harder than most universals.


----------



## turtuv

turtuv said:


> So do you think that the ATE are better? I like a full bass sound tho  are there huge differences between ATE's bass and ZS1's bass? And what about the differences between ATE-S and ATE?




Anyone?


----------



## turtuv

are they better that ATE or ZS1?


----------



## wastan

gwompki said:


> Just curious if anyone in the US who ordered the ZS3 from the 10 dollar eBay seller had received theirs yet. I ordered on the 5th so have no clue when I should expect it. Seller disnt provide tracking, but eBay estimate was delivery from Aug 30- September 27.




Received mine and is all good.


----------



## gwompki

Excellent.  When did you place the order?


----------



## Podster

gwompki said:


> Excellent.  When did you place the order?


 

 Hmm, no telling. Really depends if the thing comes out of China. Even ebay sellers drop ship from there


----------



## gwompki

podster said:


> Hmm, no telling. Really depends if the thing comes out of China. Even ebay sellers drop ship from there


 
 Sorry my question was for wastan.  I placed my order on the 5th from an ebay seller in china, so was just wondering when he placed his so I could gauge lead time on mine.


----------



## NaiveSound

What is thr CIEM technique


----------



## Podster

naivesound said:


> What is thr CIEM technique


 

 You've heard of "Twist and Shout" right? Well the CIEM method is "Twist or Shout"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With CIEM's you generally have to twist while you insert and vice versa on removal


----------



## koroshiya8

KZ is a china brand therefore i cant imagine any place outside there that can produce it cheaper.


----------



## duo8

Is there anything that sounds like the ED9 but lighter and smaller, with better isolation?


----------



## Mellowship

duo8 said:


> Is there anything that sounds like the ED9 but lighter and smaller, with better isolation?


 
  
 On the budget? Not smaller (the ED9 is very small), but lighter and with good isolation, and with a similar sound signature, you have the VJJB K4.


----------



## Ruben123

Hds1 comes relatively close too. Darker/more neutral sound though very small and I think it isolates pretty well.


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Hds1 comes relatively close too. Darker/more neutral sound though very small and I think it isolates pretty well.


 

 I concur


----------



## Chief Stringer

ZS3s arrived today, first impressions are very good, agree with what @B9Scrambler said about their sound on page 782, love the upfront mids but with the size of the soundstage too, bass is nice just wish they had abit more of that ZS1 style sub bass, and they dont really benefit from the bass switch on my Fiio A3 either just sort of muddys the midbass, but i normally dont like many pairs of earphones / headphones on my first few listens, and these are one of the two exceptions (along with my Superlux HD681 Evos).
  
 Something i think its worth meationing is that these do not have the same memory wire in the ZS1s which i hated (which i thought they did looking at pictures), they do however have thicker cable that goes over the ears which is slightly annoying and makes it hard to wrap them tight around my ears, fit is pretty good though less arkward than i thought it would be
  
 I ordered them from the Shenzhen HCkexin Electronic Technology Co, took around 10 days to arrive at my door in the UK and there is no issues with the units as i heard with the forst batch.
  
  
 All in all amazing value for money, keep the coming KZ


----------



## smy1

chief stringer said:


> ZS3s arrived today, first impressions are very good, agree with what @B9Scrambler said about their sound on page 782, love the upfront mids but with the size of the soundstage too, bass is nice just wish they had abit more of that ZS1 style sub bass, and they dont really benefit from the bass switch on my Fiio A3 either just sort of muddys the midbass, but i normally dont like many pairs of earphones / headphones on my first few listens, and these are one of the two exceptions (along with my Superlux HD681 Evos).
> 
> Something i think its worth meationing is that these do not have the same memory wire in the ZS1s which i hated (which i thought they did looking at pictures), they do however have thicker cable that goes over the ears which is slightly annoying and makes it hard to wrap them tight around my ears, fit is pretty good though less arkward than i thought it would be
> 
> ...




Still waiting for mine after about 20ish days


----------



## KipNix

duo8 said:


> Is there anything that sounds like the ED9 but lighter and smaller, with better isolation?


 

 Have you checked out the ED7 - Large? It's wood, so it's light.


----------



## smy1

kipnix said:


> Have you checked out the ED7 - Large? It's wood, so it's light.




There actually bamboo but if you were to get the ed7 get the mini because I find the originals to big.


----------



## Chief Stringer

From the same store?


----------



## wastan

gwompki said:


> Sorry my question was for wastan.  I placed my order on the 5th from an ebay seller in china, so was just wondering when he placed his so I could gauge lead time on mine.




My order was also placed on the 5th. I honestly expected to wait another week or two for it.


----------



## gwompki

chief stringer said:


> From the same store?




Thanks Wastan. Are you on the west coast? I still haven't received mine but I'm east coast. I got a message from the seller saying "we know it's been 20 days and if you still haven't received please wait 2 more weeks." Lol!


----------



## Ruben123

I usually receive items in 2 weeks, sometimes less. Most orders from weeks ago are still not where they should be (here!!!). I guess something's happening there in China, idk


----------



## gwompki

I realized how spoiled I am by Amazon Prime and near instant gratification.  Time to re-calibrate I suppose.


----------



## Sargeist85

Hello everyone,

A couple of weeks ago my brother purchased two pairs of ATEs and now he's also ordered two pairs of ED9 and told me to choose between one of them to keep for myself. I'd like to know which of those is the best one. I appreciate any advice you can give.


----------



## vapman

sargeist85 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> A couple of weeks ago my brother purchased two pairs of ATEs and now he's also ordered two pairs of ED9 and told me to choose between one of them to keep for myself. I'd like to know which of those is the best one. I appreciate any advice you can give.


 

 If you don;t have the opportunity to try both, do you prefer more neutral or more fun/aggressive sound?


----------



## Sargeist85

vapman said:


> If you don;t have the opportunity to try both, do you prefer more neutral or more fun/aggressive sound?




I mostly listen to Black Metal so probably an aggressive sound would be better.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ED9 should do the trick then.


----------



## gwompki

sargeist85 said:


> I mostly listen to Black Metal so probably an aggressive sound would be better.


 
 If you had asked me a few weeks ago I would have said the ATE hands down.  In the past couple of weeks I have been spending more time with the ED9 and feel it is a bit more versatile due to the filter options.  I don't know if it is down to burn in (brain-burn in) or the fact that I bothered to make sure the vents were properly sealed on the brass filters, but I am really enjoying them much more than the ATE now.  I listen to a lot of metal as well and was told the ATE is better for metal.  I'm listening to Immortal's Damned in Black right now with the ED9 and it sounds massive.  If you want to throw out a couple of records you like I'll be happy to do a comparison between ED9 and ATE.


----------



## Sargeist85

gwompki said:


> If you had asked me a few weeks ago I would have said the ATE hands down.  In the past couple of weeks I have been spending more time with the ED9 and feel it is a bit more versatile due to the filter options.  I don't know if it is down to burn in (brain-burn in) or the fact that I bothered to make sure the vents were properly sealed on the brass filters, but I am really enjoying them much more than the ATE now.  I listen to a lot of metal as well and was told the ATE is better for metal.  I'm listening to Immortal's Damned in Black right now with the ED9 and it sounds massive.  If you want to throw out a couple of records you like I'll be happy to do a comparison between ED9 and ATE.




Thanks for the advice, I don't think I'll do any mods to the ED9s but once they arrive I'll check them with some music to see how they hold up.

If you're willing to test them with a couple of records I'd suggest Mgla's "Exercises in Futility" and Sargeist's "Feeding the Crawling Shadows".


----------



## Ruben123

sargeist85 said:


> Thanks for the advice, I don't think I'll do any mods to the ED9s but once they arrive I'll check them with some music to see how they hold up.
> 
> If you're willing to test them with a couple of records I'd suggest Mgla's "Exercises in Futility" and Sargeist's "Feeding the Crawling Shadows".




That is not modifying as in "modding", the ed9s have vents in the brass fillers that sometimes are not completely closed due to QC I think. Maybe they should not be closed originally, but I didn't like the sound AT ALL when the vents were open.


----------



## vapman

sargeist85 said:


> Thanks for the advice, I don't think I'll do any mods to the ED9s but once they arrive I'll check them with some music to see how they hold up.
> 
> If you're willing to test them with a couple of records I'd suggest Mgla's "Exercises in Futility" and Sargeist's "Feeding the Crawling Shadows".


 

 Judging by the Mgla you'll prefer the ATE with and amp and ED without one.  just my guess


----------



## wastan

East Coast. Most stuff seems to come in via New York and move pretty quickly from there.


----------



## Mellowship

Just got a KZ ie80 on the mail today. These are great. Great detail, good soundstage, good mids, excellent build quality. Don't understand why they don't get too much attention here. Maybe because they are senns imitations?


----------



## Podster

sargeist85 said:


> Thanks for the advice, I don't think I'll do any mods to the ED9s but once they arrive I'll check them with some music to see how they hold up.
> 
> If you're willing to test them with a couple of records I'd suggest Mgla's "Exercises in Futility" and Sargeist's "Feeding the Crawling Shadows".


 

 Hook up with Coil, he's done some great modding with KZ. I absolutely love his ED9 mod


----------



## gwompki

sargeist85 said:


> Thanks for the advice, I don't think I'll do any mods to the ED9s but once they arrive I'll check them with some music to see how they hold up.
> 
> If you're willing to test them with a couple of records I'd suggest Mgla's "Exercises in Futility" and Sargeist's "Feeding the Crawling Shadows".


 
 Cool...I will try to post some impressions tonight. I haven't done a lot of critical listening to black metal due to inherent kvlt production value, so this should be an interesting exercise.


----------



## Ruben123

mellowship said:


> Just got a KZ ie80 on the mail today. These are great. Great detail, good soundstage, good mids, excellent build quality. Don't understand why they don't get too much attention here. Maybe because they are senns imitations?




To what iems could you compare them?

Edit 
Woah they're $20 now! Instead of around 8


----------



## Mellowship

ruben123 said:


> To what iems could you compare them?


 
 Just listening to music with them now. They don't seem to have that KZ sound. They are a tad more "airy". They kind of remind me the SE215 with more comfort and less bass...


----------



## gwompki

OK.  Here are my impressions of the ED9 vs ATE listening to Sargeist's - "Feeding the Crawling Shadows"  I'm going to treat this as if I were reviewing 3 separate headphones since the ED9's tuning nozzles sound signatures are so different.  Just for your reference, the brass nozzles are much more neutral sounding, while the gold nozzles greatly enhance low end.  
  
 First disclaimer, while I've been a lifelong fan of lots of different types of music and have a fairly substantial record collection, I've only just recently (past yea) become interested in the audio(phile) world.  That said, take my opinions with a grain of salt. Also another disclaimer, true Black metal recordings are pretty hard to analyze in audiophile terms for obvious reasons.  Generally speaking they are thought to have abysmal production quality, which strangely enough becomes part of the appeal.  I know that might be a foreign concept to some, but the claustrophobic, poorly mic'd, overly sibilant, chaos reaches levels of pure genius from time to time. 
  
 1) ED9 with brass nozzles - YES.  Sounds to me exactly like it should.  You can actually pick apart all of the instruments.  It feels like I'm in their way too small practice space standing in the corner listening.  WAY too close to the amps.  Drummer and bass slightly obscured by the wall of amps. Uncomfortable. Grim.  More please.
  
 2) ED9 with gold nozzles - Very similar sound to above, but with the low end of bass and drums begins to overpower the guitars a bit in the mix.  Due to the way they were recorded however, it sounds like I'm listening to those elements through a wall.  Vocals are also slightly veiled.  Not bad.  Probably easier to listen to for long stretches than with the brass nozzles, but definitely not nearly as engaging.  It more easily slips into the background.  
  
 3)ATE - no thanks.  Unfortunately not good for this record to my ears.  Bass and mids are present, but are muddy, bloated and run together.  The sibilant highs with the ATE are unbearable to my ears.  I'm 36 and have spent way too many years listening to loud music without proper ear protection, so certain frequencies are pretty intolerable to me.  The cymbals totally kill the sound with the guitars vocals and mids swirling into one gloopy mess behind the cymbals.
  
 For this one record I would definitely recommend the ED9 over the ATE.  Since the production on many black metal recordings is similar I think I can easily recommend the ED9 over the ATE. That's not to say there aren't some records I definitely prefer the ATE for, but based on your preferences and the versatility of the ED9, I would say that is the way to go.
  
 The only thing I will say is make sure the vents in the ED9 brass nozzle are closed properly.  Super easy to check and to fix.  It made a world of difference.


----------



## vapman

As much praise as I am known for have given the ATE I really can't recommend it to those who don't amp. I find they take an awful lot of amp power very well. I did not enjoy their stock sig unamped.


----------



## strykerx09

Just got my ZS3s today. I had VSonic gr07s and an Audiofly which I didn't quite like. But man these are a decent step up from the gr07s imo which the cables tore out after a couple years. Got the matte version, slightly disappointed not to get a carrying pouch but I can manage. Have not burned them in yet but I am very impressed so far! Happy KZ-fan!


----------



## vapman

strykerx09 said:


> Just got my ZS3s today. I had VSonic gr07s and an Audiofly which I didn't quite like. But man these are a decent step up from the gr07s imo which the cables tore out after a couple years. Got the matte version, slightly disappointed not to get a carrying pouch but I can manage. Have not burned them in yet but I am very impressed so far! Happy KZ-fan!


 

 VSonic GR07! That is a blast from the past. I got one super super long ago from one of ClieOS lists before he even had 200 IEMs listed i believe? In any case ,even though the 8mm driver can not possibly match the bass impact of the Aurisonics 15mm driver, i love the sound of the KZ ZS3 and use it constantly. it has great bass, but not the best of all or even basshead IMO.


----------



## strykerx09

vapman said:


> VSonic GR07! That is a blast from the past. I got one super super long ago from one of ClieOS lists before he even had 200 IEMs listed i believe? In any case ,even though the 8mm driver can not possibly match the bass impact of the Aurisonics 15mm driver, i love the sound of the KZ ZS3 and use it constantly. it has great bass, but not the best of all or even basshead IMO.


 
  
 Blast from the past indeed  
  
 I'm pretty happy with the bass, doesn't overwhelm the mids and highs but complements them rather nicely, can't wait till these have had a good burn in!
  
 Are you using other earbuds with the ZS3s or the stock ones? Wondering if I can get some decent ones off Aliexpress too hehe


----------



## SuperMAG

zs3 is now in gearbest for 10usd lol. can anyone tell me, zs3 vs ate without any amp or dac, just smartphone and laptop.


----------



## strykerx09

supermag said:


> zs3 is now in gearbest for 10usd lol. can anyone tell me, zs3 vs ate without any amp or dac, just smartphone and laptop.


 
  
 From all that I've read the ZS3 don't need an amp and sound just fine powered by your phone. Can't speak much about the ATEs though, someone else on here can help that out!


----------



## vapman

supermag said:


> zs3 is now in gearbest for 10usd lol. can anyone tell me, zs3 vs ate without any amp or dac, just smartphone and laptop.


 

 zs3 over ate all day long without an amp, i cant understand using ate without an amp.
  
  


strykerx09 said:


> Blast from the past indeed
> 
> I'm pretty happy with the bass, doesn't overwhelm the mids and highs but complements them rather nicely, can't wait till these have had a good burn in!
> 
> Are you using other earbuds with the ZS3s or the stock ones? Wondering if I can get some decent ones off Aliexpress too hehe


 

 do you mean the rubber tips? i use some wide bore ones(jvc spiral) for best bass
 not worth upgrading the cable unless you hate it or already have amp/dac. sound doesnt really change with cable.


----------



## Ruben123

strykerx09 said:


> Just got my ZS3s today. I had VSonic gr07s and an Audiofly which I didn't quite like. But man these are a decent step up from the gr07s imo which the cables tore out after a couple years. Got the matte version, slightly disappointed not to get a carrying pouch but I can manage. Have not burned them in yet but I am very impressed so far! Happy KZ-fan!




Where did you buy it?


----------



## strykerx09

ruben123 said:


> Where did you buy it?


 
 Aliexpress, this is the particular link/seller I got it from:
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS3-In-Ear-Hifi-Headphone-3-5mm-Jack-Stereo-Headset-Mobile-Earbuds-Running-Sport-Earphone/32684364480.html


----------



## strykerx09

ruben123 said:


> Where did you buy it?


 
 Got it from Aliexpress, can't post links just yet :/


----------



## Ruben123

strykerx09 said:


> Got it from Aliexpress, can't post links just yet :/




It's OK  and a shame. A nice package gives such a nice finish to a product, it could make you feel that it's even greater than you thought it was, even more value for money, making it worth maybe $10 more, costing only $1 more.


----------



## robervaul

Hey guys, what is the best choice, ATE R or ATE S ??


----------



## KipNix

I'm seeing a ton of listings for KZ ZS3 around the $10 price, all over eBay. I might get them there because they have a better Buyer Protection Plan.


----------



## strykerx09

Yep I got mine for $12 with shipping included so seems pretty damn good for the price!


----------



## Sargeist85

Thanks for the analysis gwompki! Indeed they sound great with Black Metal so I'm keeping them. Sound is clear and all the instruments are distinguishable from one another, even the music that's recorded on lo-fi is more discernable.
  
 I really appreciate the advice guys, I'm glad to be part of this community!


----------



## Podster

supermag said:


> zs3 is now in gearbest for 10usd lol. can anyone tell me, zs3 vs ate without any amp or dac, just smartphone and laptop.


 

 I've moved on from the ATE to what I consider the progression of the ATE the ATR which rocks just fine out of the phone as does the ZS3 of which I give the edge to ZS3 of course for $20-$25 for them both why not get them both
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  
 Not that I have not tried a few KZ in my day


----------



## vapman

@Podster we both know the ATE has had many versions and revisions. Would you say the ATR is similar to any particular ATE version, or is a new beast altogether?


----------



## Podster

vapman said:


> @Podster we both know the ATE has had many versions and revisions. Would you say the ATR is similar to any particular ATE version, or is a new beast altogether?


 

 Sorry Vap, I only had the original translucent and then I got the "S" version and like many other iem's (Thinking my TFZ'z right off the bat) prefer the original/1st run. But the ATR is better than both of those in all ranges, but everyone keep in mind this is just my hearing and observations! While retaining the best of both the earlier models they sound cleaner and smoother to me. I went back and forth several times with the translucent's and the ATR and the improvement is clear


----------



## vapman

podster said:


> Sorry Vap, I only had the original translucent and then I got the "S" version and like many other iem's (Thinking my TFZ'z right off the bat) prefer the original/1st run. But the ATR is better than both of those in all ranges, but everyone keep in mind this is just my hearing and observations! While retaining the best of both the earlier models they sound cleaner and smoother to me. I went back and forth several times with the translucent's and the ATR and the improvement is clear


 
  
 No apologies necessary my man - I had the same model ATE's. I hated the S. Next time i need a set i will be sure to go for the ATR. Thank you!


----------



## SuperMAG

Ordered atr lol.


----------



## MuZo2

New KZ iem


----------



## dilidani

Hello people! KZ ZS3 at ebay is ~10 dollars, at aliexpress its almost 20. Why? Can I order from ebay sellers, are they the real deal?


----------



## Ruben123

dilidani said:


> Hello people! KZ ZS3 at ebay is ~10 dollars, at aliexpress its almost 20. Why? Can I order from ebay sellers, are they the real deal?




I've ordered one three weeks ago and will sure let you know about it.


----------



## Ruben123

muzo2 said:


> New KZ iem




Dang can't keep up!


----------



## Mellowship

ruben123 said:


> I've ordered one three weeks ago and will sure let you know about it.


 
  
 I got mine from Ebay at 10 usd, they are working well. No problem at all. But I think it's a lottery. They can be from the first ZS3 lot, which had some quality issues, but mine are fine!


----------



## Ruben123

mellowship said:


> I got mine from Ebay at 10 usd, they are working well. No problem at all. But I think it's a lottery. They can be from the first ZS3 lot, which had some quality issues, but mine are fine!




Did you get them with a package etc.?


----------



## Mellowship

ruben123 said:


> Did you get them with a package etc.?


 
  
 Yes, original package, cardboard and plastic lid, sealed.


----------



## Sazu

Well I just got crap luck, I modded my ATE a while ago and now....I seem so have lost one of the covers I modded. Pit cardboard on it as temp thing to cover it.....if I don't find it I'll need to buy a new pair for the grill and cover...


----------



## Podster

Looking at that shot of the KZ12 I'd say the designers at KZ have been out drinking with the guys at TFZ


----------



## gwompki

I just got my ZS3 today from the 10 dollar eBay seller. No issues so far and came in the full retail packaging. I ordered Aug 5th. I'm on the east coast of the US just for reference.

Initial impressions are good. Enjoying more than the ATE so far, but jury is still out vs ED9.


----------



## crabdog

podster said:


> Looking at that shot of the KZ12 I'd say the designers at KZ have been out drinking with the guys at TFZ


 
 I was thinking exactly the same thing. Still haven't ordered the ZS3 but I might just grab these instead.


----------



## Kelzo

So I just received my ATR and ed7 last 2 weeks and the ed7 is one of my favorite IEM around 5 usd. It sounds more natural. Doesn't sound artificial like other cheaper KZ iem. The sub-bass on ED7 and ATR has improved compared to previous KZ IEMs. I don't have my ATE anymore but as I remember ATR is bassier while ATE would have better mids and highs, slightly.


----------



## kaiteck

kelzo said:


> So I just received my ATR and ed7 last 2 weeks and the ed7 is one of my favorite IEM around 5 usd. It sounds more natural. Doesn't sound artificial like other cheaper KZ iem. The sub-bass on ED7 and ATR has improved compared to previous KZ IEMs. I don't have my ATE anymore but as I remember ATR is bassier while ATE would have better mids and highs, slightly.


 
 Wonder how would ATR compared to ATE-S? As ATE-S has better bass than ATE and ATE has slightly better mids and highs :X


----------



## 1clearhead

crabdog said:


> I was thinking exactly the same thing. Still haven't ordered the ZS3 but I might just grab these instead.


 

 Wow! Same thoughts here 'crabdog'! A 2-pin removeable wire cheaper than the ZS3's.....that looks promissing!
  
 .....I hope they sound good, as well!


----------



## Podster

OK 1Clear and Mr. Crab, I'll be awaiting your impressions on the KZ12. I love my TFZ Series 1's but they do lack the removable cable


----------



## loomisjohnson

Would enjoy hearing more detailed impressions of the ed7......


----------



## dilidani

I ordered one ED7 as well for less than 6 bucks..and a YHC S600 for less than 5 bucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some people said that ed7 is neutral, some said its bassy, but it looks so great that i had to throw out some cash haha


----------



## smy1

dilidani said:


> I ordered one ED7 as well for less than 6 bucks..and a YHC S600 for less than 5 bucks. :etysmile:  Some people said that ed7 is neutral, some said its bassy, but it looks so great that i had to throw out some cash haha




I have the ed7, they sound basically the same as the ATE but much better and little brighter.


----------



## jms74

What's the best kz for listening to EDM? One with good sub bass / bass and that it doesn't mess to much with lower mids. Preferably one with good mids and highs.

Enviado do meu Nexus 7 através de Tapatalk


----------



## Ruben123

KZ ed2 (edse) i guess...!


----------



## gwompki

Spent more time with the ZS3 today. Wow. The sound stage seems to be vastly improved over ATE and ED9. The bass is still very much present but the quantity is not excessive. Also these are so comfortable I keep forgetting I have them in. The loops on the cable seem to stand up at an odd angle above my ears but I can live with that. Easily worth the 10 bucks on eBay. Well done KZ.


----------



## mints

any idea why it's cheaper on ebay for like half the price on ali?


----------



## habarabadabas

Has anyone heard of the KZ HD9? It's sold on Ali for 6 USD.


----------



## loomisjohnson

herewith my initial impressions on the ed3c (the acme):
 heavier and better built than expected, with metal casings, nice mic and well-designed cable reinforcements. comfortable, with very good isolation. soundwise, i hear these as V-shaped; slightly bright and quite airy sounding, with vocals pushed forward. bass punches deep and is reasonably quick, though not as sharply etched as the ed10; mids are clean-sounding and lack some body. treble isn't hyper-extended or detailed, but has very good resolution. drums are not rendered as eerily liifelike as the ed9, tho male voices and guitars sound very natural.  like the ED9, soundstage isn’t huge but imaging and instrument separation are shockingly good—there’s a live-in-concert quality to these. 
 so what remains remarkable about the kzs isn't that they're just as good as the best $50-100 sets (they're not), but how close they get for the price of a sandwich. like the ed9, most normal people would find these more than enough.


----------



## Mellowship

habarabadabas said:


> Has anyone heard of the KZ HD9? It's sold on Ali for 6 USD.


 
  
 Just found those yesterday. I am curious too.


----------



## habarabadabas

gwompki said:


> Spent more time with the ZS3 today. Wow. The sound stage seems to be vastly improved over ATE and ED9. The bass is still very much present but the quantity is not excessive. Also these are so comfortable I keep forgetting I have them in. The loops on the cable seem to stand up at an odd angle above my ears but I can live with that. Easily worth the 10 bucks on eBay. Well done KZ.


 
  
 Nice. Mine would likely be here in a week or two. I hope they're not defective. Cant wait to get my hands on the ZS3!


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## turtuv

Hi guys, I bought the KZ ATE-S and i'm very disappointed. First of all, they sound bad and the bass doesn't exist. Second of all, they are very uncomfortable since they doesn't stays blocked behind the ears. The cable keep moving and the earpiece tend to slip out. Have I a defected product? Or maybe I don't know how to wear this earphones. 

Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## crabdog

turtuv said:


> Hi guys, I bought the KZ ATE-S and i'm very disappointed. First of all, they sound bad and the bass doesn't exist. Second of all, they are very uncomfortable since they doesn't stays blocked behind the ears. The cable keep moving and the earpiece tend to slip out. Have I a defected product? Or maybe I don't know how to wear this earphones.
> 
> Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


 
 It sounds to me as though you're not getting a proper seal. Do you have any other (larger) eartips you can try?


----------



## Chief Stringer

Any ZS3 users here report any possible burn-in changes?


----------



## turtuv

crabdog said:


> turtuv said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys, I bought the KZ ATE-S and i'm very disappointed. First of all, they sound bad and the bass doesn't exist. Second of all, they are very uncomfortable since they doesn't stays blocked behind the ears. The cable keep moving and the earpiece tend to slip out. Have I a defected product? Or maybe I don't know how to wear this earphones.
> ...




I have not. I only have the eartips which I found in the box.

Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## crabdog

turtuv said:


> I have not. I only have the eartips which I found in the box.
> 
> Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk



That's how it used to be for me too. Now I have many extra large ones that I can use. 

The first tips I had that fit me property were from the ROCK Zircon. Maybe you should buy one of those to get you started (assuming size is the issue here).


----------



## turtuv

crabdog said:


> That's how it used to be for me too. Now I have many extra large ones that I can use.
> 
> The first tips I had that fit me property were from the ROCK Zircon. Maybe you should buy one of those to get you started (assuming size is the issue here).


 
 I don't think that size is the issue. I think that maybe i received a defective product. I returned the earphones already and with the refund i bought the ZS1, i hope that they will be better.


----------



## audionoobz

Hi guys! Im new here and i would like to know how the rock zircons compare to the ZS3 and which one i should go for. Thank you!


----------



## crabdog

audionoobz said:


> Hi guys! Im new here and i would like to know how the rock zircons compare to the ZS3 and which one i should go for. Thank you!


 
 I believe @Podster has both of those. Maybe he can help you out.


----------



## Ruben123

I still havent got my ZS3s which is weird,since I ordered them Aug 4th, but orders from Aug 16th already arrived. It's from eBay seller fulllove365, anybody got theirs from that seller already?


----------



## Mellowship

ruben123 said:


> I still havent got my ZS3s which is weird,since I ordered them Aug 4th, but orders from Aug 16th already arrived. It's from eBay seller fulllove365, anybody got theirs from that seller already?


 
  
 I got mine from that seller. Aug 3rd. Got them in about two weeks and something. Very fast. I'm in Western Europe.


----------



## kaiteck

turtuv said:


> Hi guys, I bought the KZ ATE-S and i'm very disappointed. First of all, they sound bad and the bass doesn't exist. Second of all, they are very uncomfortable since they doesn't stays blocked behind the ears. The cable keep moving and the earpiece tend to slip out. Have I a defected product? Or maybe I don't know how to wear this earphones.
> 
> Inviato dal mio SM-G935F utilizzando Tapatalk


 
 There are people reporting here the bass in ate-s is too much for them.


----------



## kaiteck

The new kz ed12 seems very nice.


----------



## Ruben123

mellowship said:


> I got mine from that seller. Aug 3rd. Got them in about two weeks and something. Very fast. I'm in Western Europe.




Me too western EU. Most of my orders are very quick so I guess it's lost then, I expected it to be delivered almost three weeks ago.


----------



## EarTips

Waiting for KZ ZS3 vs KZ ED12 impressions


----------



## Podster

Audiinoobz, I gave my thoughts on these two for you in the Zircon thread 

Man I can't get over how much the ED12 looks like a TFZ! Doubt the ED12 is using dual chamber like the TFZ but am curious to their sound Easy Tiger All I need is another budget iem


----------



## audionoobz

Yeahh thanks man! Podster but in terms of isolation would zs3 be better becuase of its shape? Also does what you say mean that the zironcs are more warm sounding and the zs3 is more balanced with better highs?


----------



## Podster

audionoobz said:


> Yeahh thanks man! @Podster but in terms of isolation would zs3 be better becuase of its shape? Also does what you say mean that the zironcs are more warm sounding and the zs3 is more balanced with better highs?


 

 Exactly, but as far as the shape and fit will be an individual deal as we all also have differently shaped ears. I wear all my iem's over ear because for me they stay put and keep that seal in place and it you have a cable slider cinched you really have to take a hit or jolt to dislodge them. Most iem's fit me if the nozzle is not to short and I have the correct size tips


----------



## audionoobz

Podster Hmmmm, maybe id just get both since i mostly listen to songs that require better bass but beacause you recommended the more balanced zs3 i guess id have to pick one up for myself as well. Thanks for the advice mate!


----------



## Podster

audionoobz said:


> @Podster Hmmmm, maybe id just get both since i mostly listen to songs that require better bass but beacause you recommended the more balanced zs3 i guess id have to pick one up for myself as well. Thanks for the advice mate!


 

 IMO it would give you a couple of sweet on the go options and shopped right less than $25
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








Good luck


----------



## Ruben123

I ordered original ed3s after b3's calling them "HiFi". Allergic to the word it seems. And that when there are so many new kzs coming dang


----------



## chavez

ruben123 said:


> I ordered original ed3s after b3's calling them "HiFi". Allergic to the word it seems. And that when there are so many new kzs coming dang


 
 The Perfection?They are like 4 euros right now.


----------



## Ruben123

That's why I bit the bullet! I realised my ed9 have huge channel imbalance so i instead of ordering a new one, I might check the ed3s first.


----------



## hifikid245

Not sure if being helpful or it has been mentioned before but I just want to share something interesting I found lately.

 I went to a local headphone store and I stumbled upon this brand AAW(Earphone company), at first I thought it was KZ earphones. But upon closer inspection it was a different brand. I found that some of their higher end models closely resembles that of the KZ ATE's aesthetics. In fact the cables looks and feels the same as the KZ ATE's .

Cheers,


----------



## xuan87

hifikid245 said:


> Not sure if being helpful or it has been mentioned before but I just want to share something interesting I found lately.
> 
> I went to a local headphone store and I stumbled upon this brand AAW(Earphone company), at first I thought it was KZ earphones. But upon closer inspection it was a different brand. I found that some of their higher end models closely resembles that of the KZ ATE's aesthetics. In fact the cables looks and feels the same as the KZ ATE's .
> 
> Cheers,


 
  
 AAW is a Singaporean company, and founded by the founder of Null Audio Studio, but it's a separate entity. They have a whole line up of customs but have recently released a few universals, namely the Nebula One and Two, and the Q driver, the smallest IEMs that I've ever seen with one of the best bass I've ever heard.
  
 AAW stands for Advanced Acoustics Werkes and have been around for a long while.


----------



## hifikid245

xuan87 said:


> AAW is a Singaporean company, and founded by the founder of Null Audio Studio, but it's a separate entity. They have a whole line up of customs but have recently released a few universals, namely the Nebula One and Two, and the Q driver, the smallest IEMs that I've ever seen with one of the best bass I've ever heard.
> 
> AAW stands for Advanced Acoustics Werkes and have been around for a long while.


 Thanks, didnt know that.

What's interesting is that the look/build and feel of the KZ's ATE and AAW's iem is almost identical, though there are some cosmetic differences as expected. 
Both have big sound though so pretty impressive for my KZ ATES.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ZS3 is just over 8 USD on Gearbest right now...I paid 26 CAD, haha.
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html
  
 ATR is 4.69 USD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html?wid=21
  
 Wtballs Gearbest.


----------



## Podster

That right there is a heck of a lot of fun for $12 B9


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Podster  I know eh? Ridiculous. I'm still awaiting the arrival of my ATR, but I might buy a second at that price, or a few ZS3s to give away as Xmas presents.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> ATR is 4.69 USD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If it sounds "same" as 2nd gen ATE, then it is "deal of century" LOL.


----------



## roy_jones

I'd have ordered the ZS3 and ATR from Gearbest already if I wasn't moving at the end of the month.


----------



## vapman

At 8.50 i think I'll grab a backup set of ZS3. Even at 20 they are an insane value.


----------



## Mellowship

Some Germans have been copying the ZS3  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.inear-monitoring.eu/de/produkte/inear-universelles-monitoring/monitoring-stagediver.htm


----------



## B9Scrambler

That would be hilarious actually.
  
 Also, ZS3 review. Just click on the picture (or if on mobile the link below).
  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs3-hifi-high-end-3-5mm-in-ear-earphone-headphones-earpiece-original-headset-bass-earbuds-with-microphone/reviews/16771


----------



## Mellowship

b9scrambler said:


> That would be hilarious actually.
> 
> Also, ZS3 review. Just click on the picture (or if on mobile the link below).
> 
> ...


 
 Great review. Lot of your experiences with the ZS3 are familiar to me. Except the easyness of this IEMs with sources. I think they are rather hard to drive. Or maybe they are just such a perfect match to my Fiio X3ii that, when I move them around other sources, they just don't sound as good. Or - in this perspective I am obliged to agree with you - they really depend on the source and are sensible and faithfull to the source's sound signature.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

hey as anyone ordered the kz ed12 i am wondering about them, ?


----------



## acidophilus

Any Canadians that ordered the ZS3s from fulllove365 on ebay? Ordered on August 15, the listing says they should be here by the october 6th, but I don't have much hope. 
 Should I just go ahead and order them from gearbest and eat the $12 for expidited shipping so I get them within a week, or just wait it out for the ebay ones?


----------



## roy_jones

I'm a Canadian who regrets ordering a KZ ATE from Gearbest on August 11th because I'm moving at the end of september and I'm not confident they're going to be here before I depart.  Also ordered a pair of IEMs from AE at the same time.  I figured they'd arrive in thirty days, but I shouldn't have taken the chance.


----------



## B9Scrambler

As a Canadian I fully expect to receive stuff from either AE or Gearbest after around 40 days. Anything earlier than that is great, but not the norm.


----------



## Shaya Kutnowski

roy_jones said:


> I'm a Canadian who regrets ordering a KZ ATE from Gearbest on August 11th because I'm moving at the end of september and I'm not confident they're going to be here before I depart.  Also ordered a pair of IEMs from AE at the same time.  I figured they'd arrive in thirty days, but I shouldn't have taken the chance.


 
 My ATE S' took about 42 days to arrive.  So, just saying, you should NEVER bank on 30 days, think of it as 25-30 business days (AKA not including weekends) 


acidophilus said:


> Any Canadians that ordered the ZS3s from fulllove365 on ebay? Ordered on August 15, the listing says they should be here by the october 6th, but I don't have much hope.
> Should I just go ahead and order them from gearbest and eat the $12 for expidited shipping so I get them within a week, or just wait it out for the ebay ones?


 
 They will probably arrive in the middle to the end of this month. Keep us updated.


----------



## Shaya Kutnowski

b9scrambler said:


> As a Canadian I fully expect to receive stuff from either AE or Gearbest after around 40 days. Anything earlier than that is great, but not the norm.


 
 Bought a pair of KZ ATE S', Boarseman CX98's all of which were pretty damn great. The KZ ATE's took some getting used to as the design was interesting, but they blew all the others out of the water in regard to audio quality, the Boarseman's were a pretty close second as the design and fit were my favourite of the bunch. Just waiting on my Tenmak Pianos directly from Tennmak, I REALLY hope they sound good


----------



## B9Scrambler

Shaya Kutnowski Please check out Currawong's post on that particular seller. Pg 2008 in the Chinese earphones thread.


----------



## Shaya Kutnowski

b9scrambler said:


> @Shaya Kutnowski Please check out Currawong's post on that particular seller. Pg 2008 in the Chinese earphones thread.


 
 Thanks for the save brother. Much appreciated. Didn't realize they were selling fake ****. Lucky for me, I ordered my Tenmaks directly. Guess I gotta order everything DIRECT or through Gearbest, I'm OK with that.


----------



## B9Scrambler

shaya kutnowski said:


> Thanks for the save brother. Much appreciated. Didn't realize they were selling fake ****. Lucky for me, I ordered my Tenmaks directly. Guess I gotta order everything DIRECT or through Gearbest, I'm OK with that.


----------



## B9Scrambler

After spending so much time with the ZS3 and other earphones lately, I decided to bust out the ZS1 Original. Man....forgot how much I love these. They still put a stupid grin on my face like few other earphones can.


----------



## KipNix

You did it. You forced me to pull the trigger on these after seeing a single digits price. You delayed my **** UEs order. I hope you're proud of yourselves. haha
 The seller shows both shiny and matte versions. I'll let you know what I end up with.
 Shipping results from eBay are about 30-35 days to Toronto so we'll see if Gearbest is quicker.


----------



## chavez

@B9Scrambler  How do ZS3 compare to for example LZ Z03A? Ive read that LZ03A has a bit lacking bass,i dont like that.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> @B9Scrambler  How do ZS3 compare to for example LZ Z03A? Ive read that LZ03A has a bit lacking bass,i dont like that.


 
  
 Haven't tried the Z03A yet. Only LZ I've used is the A2S and I would take the ZS3 10/10 times. Not a huge fan of the A2S. Way too much midbass, among other things that do not line up with my preferences.


----------



## Ruben123

acidophilus said:


> Any Canadians that ordered the ZS3s from fulllove365 on ebay? Ordered on August 15, the listing says they should be here by the october 6th, but I don't have much hope.
> Should I just go ahead and order them from gearbest and eat the $12 for expidited shipping so I get them within a week, or just wait it out for the ebay ones?


 
 I ordered mine from him, being in West EU it usually should be here in 1,5-2 weeks (yes very lucky about that) though it should have arrived 3 weeks ago already. Dont know if it is shipped at all because other orders already arrived.


----------



## carltonh

The ZS3 has a better sound signature, nut Z03A has higher sound quality. If I EQ, I prefer the Z03A.

Also, I compared the ZS3 to the ED8, and as I suspected, sound wise they are about identical, only the weight and fit are very different, which is why it is hard to recommend the ED8.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> chavez said:
> 
> 
> > @B9Scrambler  How do ZS3 compare to for example LZ Z03A? Ive read that LZ03A has a bit lacking bass,i dont like that.
> ...


 
 I`m with You about A2S - mid-bass boost and too "intimate" and not quite accurate imaging for me. According to what I`ve read about Z03A from respected reviewers that I usually agree, Z03A are nothing special and some even consider them under average. It was kind of hype train that took many to wrong destination. 
  
 But about ZS3... if it is really as good as B9S says, then go for it. Makes me little itchy to try KZ after long break.
  
 Btw, how is ZS3 compared to **** 4in1 ? I doubt it comes close but wonder how far it is? Maybe some modifications can do wonders with it like with my ATE FF-mod which are still up in top and on par with **** 4in1`s


----------



## Zackio

Just bought the KZ ZS3 from gearbest for 8$... Hope they don't turn out defective or even fake! Heard they are good could be used even for studio monitoring and stage.


----------



## chavez

coil said:


> I`m with You about A2S - mid-bass boost and too "intimate" and not quite accurate imaging for me. According to what I`ve read about Z03A from respected reviewers that I usually agree, Z03A are nothing special and some even consider them under average. It was kind of hype train that took many to wrong destination.
> 
> But about ZS3... if it is really as good as B9S says, then go for it. Makes me little itchy to try KZ after long break.
> 
> Btw, how is ZS3 compared to **** 4in1 ? I doubt it comes close but wonder how far it is? Maybe some modifications can do wonders with it like with my ATE FF-mod which are still up in top and on par with **** 4in1`s


 
 Geeez,even more choices now.Idk what to get.I was between Zircon or ZS3.Now this.God damn it.


----------



## vapman

IMO there is really no contest between the Zircon and the zs3. The zircon is on the level of the kz ed9 or something.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@chavez Could always try the YHC S600 if you're feeling adventurous. Not a bad earphone. Super cheap too. Just hope you have some spare tips in case the preinstalled medium ones don't fit. No extras included.


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> @chavez Could always try the YHC S600 if you're feeling adventurous. Not a bad earphone. Super cheap too. Just hope you have some spare tips in case the preinstalled medium ones don't fit. No extras included.


 
 I believe in your judgement,ive been here since EDSE was a flagship,and while im talking about them,I have them to my sister and now I want some iem that has a nice bass,not something like ZS1's.I've migrated from EDSE/ED2 to Monk's so you know why i want some more bass for my EDM.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> I believe in your judgement,ive been here since EDSE was a flagship,and while im talking about them,I have them to my sister and now I want some iem that has a nice bass,not something like ZS1's.I've migrated from EDSE/ED2 to Monk's so you know why i want some more bass for my EDM.


 
  
 Bass on the S600 is boisterous like on the ZS1, but their midrange and treble has more presence. I'll be honest in that I prefer the ZS1, but I have an unreasonable appreciation for that earphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The ZS3 is probably still your best bet. It sounds great and works very well with EDM (DnB in particular), the genre I frequent the most. At the current Gearbest price you can't go wrong.


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> Bass on the S600 is boisterous like on the ZS1, but their midrange and treble has more presence. I'll be honest in that I prefer the ZS1, but I have an unreasonable appreciation for that earphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah,the price is shocking,idk what is up with that but im digging it  .
  
  
  
 Also did anyone order ED12 yet?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Original-KZ-ED12-In-Ear-Earphone-Stereo-Running-Sport-Earphone-Noise-Cancelling-HIFI-Bss-Monito/519064_32721765415.html


----------



## pero

the zs3s seem to come in 2 styles - shiny and matte black.
  
 anyone know which version gearbest is carrying?
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## rockingthearies

I couldn't resist the temptation and decided to buy the ZS3 too I will tell you all immediately after I get my hands on it


----------



## gwompki

I've been listening to the ZS3 for bout a week now. I have had my ups and downs with this one. I've just realized that how far you rotate this one plays a huge role in the low end presence. After learning that you are supposed to rotate a ciem after insertion, I was rotating way too far which killed the lower frequencies. Now I have been inserting and rotating only until it just fits and no further. Soundstage is back. Bass is back. Awesome. All week I was questioning my initial impressions but now I'm back to being in love. Incredible value for this KZ offering.


----------



## Redcarmoose

QKZ-W1 PRO IEM (Black) "Sounding nothing at all like the single review?" $10.00 joy!!


----------



## crabdog

redcarmoose said:


> QKZ-W1 PRO IEM (Black) "Sounding nothing at all like the single review?" $10.00 joy!!



I haven't used mine for a long time but they're pretty decent for the price. IIRC I only paid $7 for mine. One of the better cables you'll find at this price range


----------



## Redcarmoose

​


crabdog said:


> I haven't used mine for a long time but they're pretty decent for the price. IIRC I only paid $7 for mine. One of the better cables you'll find at this price range




Well, it's only my second KZ purchase. Still it was so funny as it had some of the either, mental or physical burn-in personality of the KZ-ATE Copper driver upon first listening. It sounds both pulled back in both the treble and soundstage then starts to expand. So strange as the KZ-ATE did exactly the same thing?
h


ttps://m.aliexpress.com/item/32558937246.html


Still seems hard to find much about these, even on Head-Fi. I'm totally happy with them, but I guess 6 months ago is a long time ago in KZ land. Seems like everyone has either moved on to more popular KZ IEMs or found better sounding ones? I guess I need to buy a couple more?

To tell you the truth, I didn't even know they were KZ, I just purchased them. Later after listening I looked them up and found they were KZ made? 

The review says they are fairly flat and non-bass-head, but they are bass-head-IEMs?


----------



## Redcarmoose

crabdog said:


> I haven't used mine for a long time but they're pretty decent for the price. IIRC I only paid $7 for mine. One of the better cables you'll find at this price range




The cable is super nice being not that rubber monster of the KZ-ATE. It's funny that it's so very thin too, past the Y. Never had one like it. 

http://www.head-fi.org/products/qkz-w1-pro-in-ear-sport-headphone/reviews/15903

I am so very miss-understanding this review? Maybe mine are broken, but in a good way as they have bass very close to the KZATE. Did you notice all this bass? Not like told in review at all?

So strange as this reviewer is always dead on? I must have got some strange one-off pair?:rolleyes:


----------



## crabdog

redcarmoose said:


> The cable is super nice being not that rubber monster of the KZ-ATE. It's funny that it's so very thin too, past the Y. Never had one like it.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/qkz-w1-pro-in-ear-sport-headphone/reviews/15903
> 
> ...


 
 May be tip dependent. Now that I have many types of tips to choose from I can clearly hear the difference between some of them.


----------



## Podster

So it looks like the Holiday this weekend is ZS3 Day had to grab a couple extra's at these prices


----------



## B9Scrambler

redcarmoose said:


> The cable is super nice being not that rubber monster of the KZ-ATE. It's funny that it's so very thin too, past the Y. Never had one like it.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/qkz-w1-pro-in-ear-sport-headphone/reviews/15903
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello! I've still got my pair and had a second pair bought for a friend run through my hands. They both sounded the same to me; i.e fairly balanced with a slight boost to their mids, and this is why he doesn't like them. Nowhere near enough bass. He much prefers the current ZS1 which is a complete bass cannon in comparison. Others in the forums have echoed similar sentiments about their "flatness" so I'm not alone.
  
 But, it's certainly possible that I'm way off base, or maybe they changed drivers at some point. They're cheap, so that wouldn't shock me. Kinda like how KZ heavily revised the ZS1. Current version removed the crossover and brass ring in the nozzle, and it sounds just like the ZN1 Mini. Its very different from the original release model. I added an annotation to that review because it doesn't apply to the current version. Might have to order another W1 Pro simply to see if they made any changes.


----------



## Redcarmoose

b9scrambler said:


> Hello! I've still got my pair and had a second pair bought for a friend run through my hands. They both sounded the same to me; i.e fairly balanced with a slight boost to their mids, and this is why he doesn't like them. Nowhere near enough bass. He much prefers the current ZS1 which is a complete bass cannon in comparison. Others in the forums have echoed similar sentiments about their "flatness" so I'm not alone.
> 
> But, it's certainly possible that I'm way off base, or maybe they changed drivers at some point. They're cheap, so that wouldn't shock me. Kinda like how KZ heavily revised the ZS1. Current version removed the crossover and brass ring in the nozzle, and it sounds just like the ZN1 Mini. Its very different from the original release model. I added an annotation to that review because it doesn't apply to the current version. Might have to order another W1 Pro simply to see if they made any changes.




Your reviews are always correct. But I may just have some strange pair. Purchased them from a shop, they did not have the sticker around the cable like you show. Came with case but only two sets of tips. 

Maybe I need to get another pair just to see?

These have a ton of bass. 

Not KZ-ATE bass, but a little less??

Haha, this hobby is so strange at times??


----------



## Redcarmoose

crabdog said:


> May be tip dependent. Now that I have many types of tips to choose from I can clearly hear the difference between some of them.




Yes, I have not even started with foam tips yet, those normally go bass heavy with my ears? I don't know, here I am with two respected members saying the QKZ M1 Pro does not have much bass. Maybe the bass will settle after burn in. Never this much though?


----------



## B9Scrambler

redcarmoose said:


> Your reviews are always correct. But I may just have some strange pair. Purchased them from a shop, they did not have the sticker around the cable like you show. Came with case but only two sets of tips.
> 
> Maybe I need to get another pair just to see?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I ordered another pair along with the ED12 to find out if they made any changes  I'll know in a month or two if they sound any different, haha. 
  
 PS. If anyone is interested in the ED12, HCKexin's got them on for 12.00 USD. I was waiting for Gearbest to pick them up, but this was worth going in on.


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> Well, I ordered another pair along with the ED12 to find out if they made any changes  I'll know in a month or two if they sound any different, haha.
> 
> PS. If anyone is interested in the ED12, HCKexin's got them on for 12.00 USD. I was waiting for Gearbest to pick them up, but this was worth going in on.


 
 Oh I really didn't want to see that B9. How am I supposed to resist at $12.


----------



## B9Scrambler

crabdog said:


> Oh I really didn't want to see that B9. How am I supposed to resist at $12.


 
  
 That's the predicament I was in! And I lost. My poor wallet. Paid for my tux rentals today too. Erk


----------



## Redcarmoose

b9scrambler said:


> Well, I ordered another pair along with the ED12 to find out if they made any changes  I'll know in a month or two if they sound any different, haha.
> 
> PS. If anyone is interested in the ED12, HCKexin's got them on for 12.00 USD. I was waiting for Gearbest to pick them up, but this was worth going in on.




I normally just use an IPod 5 gen, like shown in the picture, but after reading your review and becoming perplexed I then switched to my home reference which consists of a Foobar set-up with Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus to a Schiit Asgard One. Normally that system is on the thin side? Still what I would call heavy bass. Which is fine for me as I would much rather have a new pair of IEMs go the way of the bass, then go treble on me?:rolleyes:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/11940#post_12840064
Interesting that there is a canal, a canal which runs the length of the nozzle then goes out under the tip and is in proximity to an airport at the base?


----------



## B9Scrambler

You hear what you hear man  For example, I hear the B3 Pro 1 as having next to no bass. The impressions of other much more experienced reviewers than myself will state otherwise. 

Could also be the exceptionally low volumes I listen at. That's definitely something to consider. Not sure if I was adding that to the intro at the time my W1 review went up.

The good thing about too much bass is that it can always be eq'd out with relative ease. I'd rather have to remove then add. No chance of distortion. Nice home setup BTW!

Alright, it's almost 1 AM. Bed time. Goodnight all.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Just a photo which shows canal, and photo with port.


----------



## mints

do you guys use stock tips on your zs3?
 i rarely come to this forum so i apologize in advance if this has been asked before


----------



## blazinblazin

Using the Silicon tip. KZ foam tips included is not safe. High chance to stuck in ears lol

 I don't even dare to use it. A light pull and it just came off.


----------



## Shadowsora

Absent from the thread for a really long time, I somehow managed to kill ED9,ATE and want to get something new.
 Is ZS3 the current best KZ? I read that it has kinda "upped" mids which I am a fan of, can someone sum it up?
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## vapman

mints said:


> do you guys use stock tips on your zs3?
> 
> i rarely come to this forum so i apologize in advance if this has been asked before




Spiral dots here



shadowsora said:


> Absent from the thread for a really long time, I somehow managed to kill ED9,ATE and want to get something new.
> Is ZS3 the current best KZ? I read that it has kinda "upped" mids which I am a fan of, can someone sum it up?
> Thanks in advance.


 i dont think they has as far forward mids as some other KZ but i think it has great tonal balance and superior quality to all other KZ. Renovable cable is a huge deal


----------



## wastan

mints said:


> do you guys use stock tips on your zs3?
> 
> i rarely come to this forum so i apologize in advance if this has been asked before




I really didn't like the pack ins. Find something with a wide bore.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Not to sound elitist or anything, but just for the sake of understanding. The QKZ- W1 Pro is amazingly tip centric. I have been able to nurse a fairly heavy bass response with only using one specific pair of silicone tips. I'm using the large set that came with the AJay 2s. Maybe because of that strange canal along the edge of the nozzle, no foam tips worked for bass.

I'm finding the sound signature is just perfect for my tastes. Fairly heavy bass, along with that bass slightly making the midrange seem less forward and just enough treble. 

In so many ways they seem to have more politeness in style than KZ-ATE. The QKZ-W1 Pro also is smaller. Strangely though the nozzle area is not that long. I'm actually thinking I'm getting help from the tip making up for the short nozzles. Where the KZ-ATE is more boomy and has more bass soundstage, the QKZ- M1 Pro has the same bass but in a slightly less soundstage and pulled back from being too boomy. Perfect for someone who gets the ATE, but finds it too bass-head?

I'm finding these QKZs to be very dependent of DAC too. Using an old tablet with Wolfson chip, ( Wolfson WM-1811) is warming them up just slightly in their favor. Finding them to be so DAC dependent is thrilling too.

In ending they seem to respond well to aftermarket cables too. Couldn't be more happy for $10. Lollol


----------



## mints

@blazinblazin thanks mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



@vapman this one? thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



@wastan thanks i'm not really familiar what a wide bore is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 would you guys recommend those tips from ali?
 some of them look good


----------



## koroshiya8

Just receive this moments ago.. still testing atm.. spent some time orientating this thing.


----------



## MuZo2

Are the colored opposite? Red for left?


----------



## koroshiya8

Still trying to figure out but seems like red is to be wore left side.


----------



## To.M

bLue (left) and Red (right)


----------



## koroshiya8

to.m said:


> bLue (left) and Red (right)




Something feels not right. If I put red on my right, the pin faces down.


----------



## MuZo2

koroshiya8 said:


> Still trying to figure out but seems like red is to be wore left side.


 

 Yes this is what it looks from picture. Seems the made the color mixup.


----------



## Shawn71

koroshiya8 said:


> Something feels not right. If I put red on my right, the pin faces down.




Yes, looking at the pictures it appears that your pair's orientation (colors) is not correct......


----------



## mebaali

koroshiya8 said:


>


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> Just receive this moments ago.. still testing atm.. spent some time orientating this thing.


 
  


 Those looks nice (kinda having Vsonic VSD series vibe to it).
  
 Do share your impression on the sound and if you happen to own ZS3 a comparison would be fantastic.
  
 TIA!


----------



## koroshiya8

Here is a side-by-side comparison between ED12 and ZS3. ED12 spots the glossy look as the ZS3 glossy version.
  

  
 Ok after checking with the seller, the explanation is that
 Mic version - Red on Right
 non Mic version (what i'm using) - Red on Left.
 So that was the reason i was spending so much time trying to figure out whether i plug in the pin wrongly.
  
  
 Here is my impressions after running through a few songs.
  
 Quick face off
 new ED12 vs reigning Champion ZS3.
  
*Summary/Overall impressions*
 Similar to ZS3, the earphone reacts very well with High resolution audio such as FLAC and other lossless format. Sound is average at lossy source.
  
 Physically, the ED12 uses the same rubbery cable as the ATE which to me is fine. Similar to the ATE, ED12 also does not come with memory wire, thus the seller also sent a pair of Ear Hook with the ED12. Initially i was not comfortable with the default silicon tips that came by default, thus i swap it by using the ATE ones and well how good it fitted.
  
  
*Updated 7 Sept*
  
 After a couple of hours of running in, the treble now sounds less forward although it is still a key contrast between ZS3 and ED12. . Other users can confirm on my observation 
  
  
  
Tested Track - Silent Shout (FLAC)/Hey Eugene (FLAC)
  

*Treble*
 The ED12 is more forward with the vocals and also brighter. Suspect fatigue will set in faster as compared to ZS3.
 ZS3 sounds smoother comparatively.
 The ED12 says 'do you understand what i am saying!', while the ZS3 says 'i'm telling you this is what i mean.'
  
*Mid Range*
 No significant difference i can pick out here.
  
  
*Bass*
 The ED12 is more controlled as compared to ZS3, which to a small group of users the ZS3 bass can be overwhelming at times. The ZS3 says 'set me free', while the ED12 is set loose but with a lease on.


----------



## koroshiya8

A Teaser question:
  
 what happens when you try to plug ZS3 cable into ED12 earbud and Vice Versa ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  

  
  
 Alright.. Firstly the ZS3 cable can indeeed fit into the ED12 but not vice  versa because of the ear bud design the ED12 cable cannot reach into the 2 pins of the ZS3.
  
 Using the ZS3 cable into the ED12, my first response was that. holy shxxt this cable is what makes ZS3 tick because the enhanced but controlled bass is immediately manifested out from the ED12. While doing this i also noticed it's tought to plug out the cable from the ED12 than from the ZS3, so i would advise against plugging in and out of ED12 for risk of breaking the pin.


----------



## ChickenButcher

koroshiya8 said:


> Here is a side-by-side comparison between ED12 and ZS3. ED12 spots the glossy look as the ZS3 glossy version.
> 
> [COLOR=FF4400]
> [/COLOR]
> ...




Thanks for the impression! Just wondering, can you use the zs3 cable on the ED12? (since zs3 cable has memory wire)


Oops just saw its replied in the previous post...Sorry i asked too fast


----------



## B9Scrambler

@koroshiya8 Great impressions! Looking forward to the arrival of my ED12. They sound like they'd be a little more in line with my personal preferences than the ZS3. They also look much nicer in your images than in the promotional stuff.


----------



## mebaali

koroshiya8 said:


> A Teaser question:
> 
> what happens when you try to plug ZS3 cable into ED12 earbud and Vice Versa ?
> 
> ...




Thanks a ton for your early but detailed impressions. Reading from your comments, it seems ED12 may not match with my musical preferences (btw, just ordered **** 4in1) and may be, i should try ZS3.


----------



## koroshiya8

mebaali said:


> Thanks a ton for your early but detailed impressions. Reading from your comments, it seems ED12 may not match with my musical preferences (btw, just ordered **** 4in1) and may be, i should try ZS3.


 
 Maybe you can wait for a few more reviewers comment first before deciding as i'm just 1 person.
 In fact after 2 hours of burning the sound has improved too


----------



## wastan

mints said:


> @blazinblazin thanks mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's means a very wide opening. Here's a photo that Coil posted that's pretty similar to the bore I'm using on the ZS3 although mine is a double flange.  http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1416726/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL


----------



## mebaali

koroshiya8 said:


> Maybe you can wait for a few more reviewers comment first before deciding as i'm just 1 person.
> In fact after 2 hours of burning the sound has improved too


 
 You are right.
  
 From what I can observe (again reading the comments from those that got it), ZS3 (in general) has received mostly praise. I am just assuming these are like an enhanced version of original ATE's signature (which I dig).
  
 Took the plunge and just placed an order for ZS3 from GB


----------



## Zackio

mebaali said:


> You are right.
> 
> From what I can observe (again reading the comments from those that got it), ZS3 (in general) has received mostly praise. I am just assuming these are like an enhanced version of original ATE's signature (which I dig).
> 
> Took the plunge and just placed an order for ZS3 from GB




Same here, hope we dont get the 1st version which were faulty!


----------



## mebaali

zackio said:


> Same here, hope we dont get the 1st version which were faulty!


 
 Yep. Before ordering from GearBest, yesterday, I have had my order canceled for ZS3's during its launch time in July (at GeekBuying) due to 1st batch recall.
  
 I was just waiting for some positive impressions about the 2nd batch to take a call.
  
 It's been nearly 2 months without any incidents (or I may have missed) since the initial recall. Hence, went ahead for a second try. 
  
 Hope we don't end up getting a lemon


----------



## koroshiya8

Well we all hope kz learnt their lesson that more haste = less speed.
Even mighty Samsung couldn't avoid having battery problems with their latest phone.. so ya.. anyone can have an 'off day. So far the one I am using is doing well especially after a night of run in.


----------



## mikey1964

Just joined the club.....well, sorta club.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought a ZS3 (having a fit issue, the supplied silicon tips aren't working out) and an ED12. Spent an hour or so burning them in on my Fiio X3 II and my HM901s, using the latter for listening and impressions.

  
 Didn't have much time as it was night already in my neck of the woods, just before going to sleep last night, I realized that I had a good 3rd party 2pin cable stored in my drawer. Took it out and plugged it into my ED12, wish I hadn't done that, 'coz I then spent like a hour to two listening to the wee hours of the morning. Still too early to form any sorta impression, but I'm liking what I hear on my ED12. The cable is an Effect Audio Thor Silver 8 conductor cable which is pretty darn expensive (used it on my NA Savant before selling it off)


----------



## mints

wastan said:


> It's means a very wide opening. Here's a photo that Coil posted that's pretty similar to the bore I'm using on the ZS3 although mine is a double flange.  http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1416726/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL


 
  
 cheers mate


----------



## chaiyuta

I just got KZ HDSE bluetooth today. Material on earphone housing is rubberized. I pairing to Vivo Xshot (bluetooth 4.0). Some sound jerk are found. Overall sound is better than my thought. Cool voice sound. Lack of details (Of course, its frequency response is 20-20kHz). Bass is boomy.


----------



## crabdog

chaiyuta said:


> I just got KZ HDSE bluetooth today. Material on earphone housing is rubberized. I pairing to Vivo Xshot (bluetooth 4.0). Some sound jerk are found. Overall sound is better than my thought. Cool voice sound. Lack of details (Of course, its frequency response is 20-20kHz). Bass is boomy.


 
 I was wondering when someone would get those. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Ruben123

Finally my zs3s arrived. I don't have the edr2s anymore but from memory the zs3 is an updated edr2. More bass but wider sound stage. Couldn't a/b them unfortunately, but to be fair I think edr2 is better. At least if you like your music a bit less bass heavy lol
The fit and isolation though are stunning. Really good. I'm going to eq them and think it's going to be a keeper. The monoprice earphones are still better sq wise but they can't match this isolation and fit.


----------



## CoiL

Was looking for cheap ATE 2nd gen and found that:

 What the heck is HD9 ?


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Was looking for cheap ATE 2nd gen and found that:
> 
> What the heck is HD9 ?


 

 This is the second time I heard HD9 being mentioned.....I would definitely like to know more about them!


----------



## kiler

The image looks wayy too renderized, doesn't look like a real product


----------



## RvTrav

Re: KZ HD 09.  If you check out the QKZ DM200 on Aliexpress it appears to the same product.  Information in the description even includes HD 09 on some of the slides.  I ordered a pair HD 09 because they were only $5.96 Canadian and seemed to have the new KZ ear tips


----------



## Podster

coil said:


> Was looking for cheap ATE 2nd gen and found that:
> 
> What the heck is HD9 ?


 

 Russian knockoff


----------



## Shaya Kutnowski

podster said:


> Russian knockoff


 
 But it's on KZ's official Ali page?


----------



## Podster

shaya kutnowski said:


> But it's on KZ's official Ali page?


 

 Oh sorry, I change my verdict to obvious collaboration
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I stopped at the ATR and ZS3 which to the best of my knowledge and ears are natural progressions for the ATE/ZS lines, HD9 looks like ATE as Robo-Cop and the new ED12 looks like a direct rip off of the TFZ Series 1
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All based on my lack of KZ knowledge


----------



## KipNix

Storm Troopers created the HD9. It's a secret mind control plan.
 I am just kidding.
 I would say I'm "waiting to hear reviews on it before purchasing" but that's an excuse. I have too many IEMs coming in right now!


----------



## harry501501

How do the ATR compare to the DZAT-DF10 and VJJB V1S sound wise?


----------



## Mellowship

kipnix said:


> Storm Troopers created the HD9. It's a secret mind control plan.
> I am just kidding.
> I would say I'm "waiting to hear reviews on it before purchasing" but that's an excuse. I have too many IEMs coming in right now!


 
  
 Black version is for Darth Vader only!


----------



## Imissroro

I just got my KZ ZS3, anyone knows which comply size fits these earphones?
The tips provided ain't very comfortable for me.


----------



## CoiL

Finally! Any info @ KZ *ZST HYBRID ?*
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/32729542853.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_10,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10065_10068_10055_10054_10069_10059_10058_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=f34bc76d-8129-4ba0-95c1-c2e3f3e444b5


----------



## Ruben123

,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only my zs3s just arrived and another ed9 and an ed3 are on their way, and I just bought a lifetime supply of monoprice earphones ,(now have around 10 lol )


----------



## EarTips

finally a kz hybrid


----------



## blazinblazin

coil said:


> Finally! Any info @ KZ *ZST HYBRID ?*
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/32729542853.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_10,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10065_10068_10055_10054_10069_10059_10058_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=f34bc76d-8129-4ba0-95c1-c2e3f3e444b5


 
  
 Hmm.... Why does the shape reminds me of TFZ series.


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> Finally! Any info @ KZ *ZST HYBRID ?*




Hope the dynamic driver on these performs better than xiaomi's hybrids(quantie)!!!.....xiaomi's build and materials are better than KZ's but still KZ priced theirs in the same tag BUT with 2 pin removable cable and new propreitory eartips(westone star?)!!!

Will wait for some time until My ATR and ZS3 reach me.....And HD12 and xiaomi hybrid is on hold. Looks like KZ is back on track after ED7 bamboo!


----------



## robervaul

eartips said:


> finally a kz hybrid


 
 It is only a matter of time unitl kz launch a 2 BA


----------



## thebigredpolos

A KZ hybrid, and they're making a silver plated 2-pin cable?  
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-KZ-Cable-0-75mm-2-Pin-Upgraded-Plated-Silver-Cable-2-PIN-Upgrade-Cable-Ues/32731735090.html?btsid=67f3a61a-f2c9-419b-ab32-7020f498e7c0&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7%2Csearchweb201602_1_10057_10065_10056_10068_10055_10037_10067_10054_10069_301_10059_10033_10058_10032_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_10062_10053_10050_10051%2Csearchweb201603_1&spm=2114.01010208.3.38.95fL1T


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ and their game have been upped! I personally find this quite exciting.


----------



## chavez

b9scrambler said:


> KZ and their game have been upped! I personally find this quite exciting.


 
  
  
 Will you order one?


----------



## B9Scrambler

chavez said:


> Will you order one?


 
  
 Heck yes, but not right away. Probably in late October. Will likely scoop up their HDSE Bluetooth model at the same time.


----------



## crabdog

b9scrambler said:


> KZ and their game have been upped! I personally find this quite exciting.


 
 You and me both. Can't wait for the first impressions to roll in.


----------



## habarabadabas

I finally received my ZS3 from the Ebay seller. All is well, it comes in the original packaging and is not faulty. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I must say, the cables on these ones are better compared to the cables that comes with the ED9.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Finally! Any info @ KZ *ZST HYBRID ?*
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/32729542853.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_10,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10065_10068_10055_10054_10069_10059_10058_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=f34bc76d-8129-4ba0-95c1-c2e3f3e444b5


 
 It's about time they went hybrid! They're available on taobao, as well! ......I'll be ordering me a pair sometime this month!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.13.ptxcax&id=538135163862&ns=1&abbucket=6#detail


----------



## KipNix

Can someone translate the Chinese graphics, please?


----------



## Zackio

This all Google Translation not mine!
 Super high-moving iron unit + bass moving coil unit will be moving iron unit and moving coil unit of advantages of sound, complementary, giving the music more details of the show.
  
 Drivers letters chinese: Bass moving coil unit and Ultra- Hight unit
  
  

 Ultra- tone moving iron unit has a moving coil unit can never match the treble performance, and this treble detail is widely reflected in the size of the preparation music.
  
  

 Professional physical sound quality tuning technology precision internal acoustic structure design, and subtle circuit optimization can be the two fine division of each pronounciation unit, moving iron is responsible for the interpretation of the treble part of the moving coil is responsible for the interpretation of the bass part.


----------



## acidophilus

habarabadabas said:


> I finally received my ZS3 from the Ebay seller. All is well, it comes in the original packaging and is not faulty. :bigsmile_face:    I must say, the cables on these ones are better compared to the cables that comes with the ED9.




When did you order? And what region? 

Canadian here, ordered mine on August 15th, got an email from seller saying that I should wait 1-2 more weeks.


----------



## B9Scrambler

acidophilus said:


> When did you order? And what region?
> 
> Canadian here, ordered mine on August 15th, got an email from seller saying that I should wait 1-2 more weeks.




That time frame sounds about right. I've ordered a ton of KZs fro AliExpress and they usually take 30-45 days to arrive. I'm also Canadian.


----------



## habarabadabas

acidophilus said:


> When did you order? And what region?




Im from the Philippines. Ordered mine on August 9th.


----------



## Comebackboy

Lmao wanted to buy a budget iem and was looking at the kz zs3, dzat df10 and vjjb v1 but when these hybrid kz zst released in my country I just jumped on them. Ordered myself one and should be coming in a week or two


----------



## Ruben123

What I'm wondering, is why the zs3 is packaged so soberly. It's being sold at$20 but the ate and ed9 are packaged much more luxury. Without all that plastic it's of course better for the environment


----------



## chaiyuta

About KZ HDSE, I can confirm that the music playback time is 3 hours starting from fully charged till low battery warning. and It take 1 hour to regain fully charged. This experiment is based on smartphone Bluetooth v4.0, non-stop playing FLAC 192kHz/24bit files at maximum bluetooth volume.

About the new 2-pin KZ upgraded SPC cable, Did anyone purchase? I look forward to your impression.


----------



## Ruben123

That's not too long, though when looking at the value, the KZ bt earphone is a bit better deal for the 3.5-jack-less friends (new iPhone)


----------



## roy_jones

acidophilus said:


> When did you order? And what region?
> 
> Canadian here, ordered mine on August 15th, got an email from seller saying that I should wait 1-2 more weeks.




I ordered a bunch of stuff from AE on August 11th and the last package arrived yesterday. I'm in Windsor. 

I ordered a KZ ATE from Gearbest at the same time and am still waiting on it. I'm going to avoid Gearbest in the future and go with Ali.


----------



## CoiL

redcarmoose said:


> More junk to read about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is wrong place for W1PRO - it is not KZ. QKZ rebrands many other IEM`s and sells them under QKZ brand to "steal" some clients from KZ.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Heck yes, but not right away. Probably in late October. Will likely scoop up their HDSE Bluetooth model at the same time.


 

 Mine are on their way with the upgrade silver plated cable


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Mine are on their way with the upgrade silver plated cable:tongue_smile:




Awesome! Can't wait to read your impressions. Hope they're good


----------



## KipNix

roy_jones said:


> I ordered a bunch of stuff from AE on August 11th and the last package arrived yesterday. I'm in Windsor.
> 
> I ordered a KZ ATE from Gearbest at the same time and am still waiting on it. I'm going to avoid Gearbest in the future and go with Ali.


 

 I'm in the same boat. Ali takes about a month to Toronto and I'm still waiting for Gearbest after more than 36 days. I'll order the KZ stuff on Ali from now on.


----------



## koroshiya8

ruben123 said:


> What I'm wondering, is why the zs3 is packaged so soberly. It's being sold at$20 but the ate and ed9 are packaged much more luxury. Without all that plastic it's of course better for the environment


 
 All KZ products seemed to be now package in a standardized box format. The awkard triangular plastic box of ATE is also now changed to the same packaging as ZS3 and ATE(S).
 Firstly the 'new' packaging is more compact and is good for those buying in bulk as they will take up less volumetric weight theoratically and as you say more enviroment friendly though i doubt that's what they were actually think about. 
 More like economies of scale since you make everything the same except the prints.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I really like the new packaging. I prefer the small rectangular hard plastic case my ATE came in, but the new package is still quite nice.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> I really like the new packaging. I prefer the small rectangular hard plastic case my ATE came in, but the new package is still quite nice.


 

 But you cannot really _use_ the new boxes. Also what would be the smarter thing. Waiting to order the ZST - I mean, at Gearbest the ZS3 is priced only $8 - or _buy my **** socks off*?_


----------



## EarTips

there's always an alternative


----------



## EarTips

robervaul said:


> It is only a matter of time unitl kz launch a 2 BA


 
 lol, will we see a $???.?? kz in the near future.


----------



## Ruben123

Lol 
Most of the time I don't buy that many earphones, but let few weeks I bought 4 and a zst is waiting also. Got me thinking if KZ is the only brand having so many and good earphones <$10? Never been to active on the Asian earphone thread  I mean getting one excellent in ear instead of 3 kzs is nice too - though if KZ has much better value, story would be different.


----------



## Comebackboy

podster said:


> Mine are on their way with the upgrade silver plated cable


 
 Sorry if this sounds stupid (I'm rather new), but what difference will the upgraded silver cable make as compared to the stock cable? In terms of durability or sound or? Ordered myself the KZ ZST but not sure if I should get the silver cable? Thanks!


----------



## crabdog

comebackboy said:


> Sorry if this sounds stupid (I'm rather new), but what difference will the upgraded silver cable make as compared to the stock cable? In terms of durability or sound or? Ordered myself the KZ ZST but not sure if I should get the silver cable? Thanks!


 
 Durability, comfort and appearance. Very unlikely you'll hear any difference in the sound.


----------



## KipNix

I'll delay pulling the trigger on the ZST until I hear "impressions" about it from you pros first.


----------



## Redcarmoose

roy_jones said:


> I ordered a bunch of stuff from AE on August 11th and the last package arrived yesterday. I'm in Windsor.
> 
> I ordered a KZ ATE from Gearbest at the same time and am still waiting on it. I'm going to avoid Gearbest in the future and go with Ali.




Waiting is the fun part.


----------



## davidcotton

redcarmoose said:


> Waiting is the fun part.


 

 Strange idea of fun! It's all amazon's fault anyway, destroying our ability to wait with near instant delivery (if in stock)!


----------



## 1clearhead

crabdog said:


> Durability, comfort and appearance. Very unlikely you'll hear any difference in the sound.


 

 Exactly. Too many of the KZ's sounds very similar to each other.
  
 But, now I get the itch to pull the trigger on the KZ-ZST just because they finally added that long awaited BA armature.
  
 .....why did they wait so long?


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Exactly. Too many of the KZ's sounds very similar to each other.
> 
> But, now I get the itch to pull the trigger on the KZ-ZST just because they finally added that long awaited BA armature.
> 
> ...


 
  
 According to communication with them last year, they said it was too expensive to bring a hybrid or BA earphone to market at the prices they wanted. Either they changed their minds, or BAs have come down in cost enough to warrant hopping into the hybrid market. I'm just happy to see KZ taking on something new.


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> According to communication with them last year, they said it was too expensive to bring a hybrid or BA earphone to market at the prices they wanted. Either they changed their minds, or BAs have come down in cost enough to warrant hopping into the hybrid market. I'm just happy to see KZ taking on something new.


 
  
 True.....it makes a lot more sense. I really hope they sound as good as they look.


----------



## rockingthearies

Hi, I would like to buy a new wire pregferably black for my zs3 as the current wire is too fat for my liking but I heard the 2 pin on the zs3 is different from the conventional ones, hence I am afraid to just any 2 pin wire. Any recomendations?


----------



## myliferockkss

B9Scrambler (tagging you bcoz u recommended me ED10 long back... they sound awesome)
Is it worth to buy KZ ED7 @4.41$ ?
How do they fair when compared to KZ ED10 and ATE?


----------



## 1clearhead

OK, just ordered the KZ-ZST!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 .....I'm a sucker for a good budget hybrid! Let's see how well they play!


----------



## crabdog

1clearhead said:


> OK, just ordered the KZ-ZST!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I knew you'd get on this one cleary! So far I've resisted the ZS3 and ED12. Will await your verdict on the ZST before doing anything rash.


----------



## vapman

Hard to resist at sub $10 ZS3. I paid $20 for it and don't regret one cent. None of it. I want more in case mine break. I sold a damn ASG-B because of them. What does that tell you? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It shouldn't tell you it has stronger bass because it doesn't. But one's 20 max and one's 300 minimum.


----------



## Ruben123

I saw zsts on Ali for $14, now they're up at $18 again. Pity should've ordered sooner.


----------



## ChickenButcher

Ordered 3 pairs of KZ's thru gearbest (ed9, edr2, zs3), and only 2 arrived (ed9, edr2). On the other hand, in my gearbest account, it says that the zs3 has been shipped.
  
 Is it common for gearbest to send stuff separately?
  
 Also, I had ed9 previously, but they broke (one side doesn't work), so I threw them away. I thought I've been spoiled by more expensive iem's (pinnacle p1, ue 900s, im70, etc), but I can't believe how well ed9 is holding up.... it is indeed a "budget king" iem!


----------



## toddy0191

Just received my zs3s today for £8 from gearbest. 

On first listen these things sound much better than I expected and hit way above their price. My expectations weren't that high as I was underwhelmed by the ATEs.

Great bass and treble and nice soundstage and separation. They're quite bright but that's something I like.

Looking forward to hearing someone's impression of the hybrids now before pulling the trigger on those!


----------



## crabdog

toddy0191 said:


> Just received my zs3s today for £8 from gearbest.
> 
> On first listen these things sound much better than I expected and hit way above their price. My expectations weren't that high as I was underwhelmed by the ATEs.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm that sounds like what I hear with the Tennmak Piano. If that's the case I really need to get me a ZS3.


----------



## To.M

ZS3 for 7.99usd now at gearbest but I rather pass up on them, I am more intrigued by ZST


----------



## AudioNoob

Hello all,
 I'm looking for headphones that will be good for sleeping in. Would the KZ-Ate / S do the trick or are the bores too long for them to be comfortable to lay on?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Ruben123

I'd get the hds1 for sleeping in.


----------



## B9Scrambler

C56R doesn't sound as good as the HDS1 but is more low profile. Might be more comfortable if lying on your side.


----------



## toddy0191

crabdog said:


> Hmm that sounds like what I hear with the Tennmak Piano. If that's the case I really need to get me a ZS3.


 

 They sound very similar to the Pianos.


----------



## AudioNoob

ruben123 said:


> I'd get the hds1 for sleeping in.


 
 Don't they poke out a little? Although they'd be nice and simple. These are for my aunt, she basically wants something to listen to the BBC while sleeping, and for videoconferencing. As long as the vocals are good and the mic is half decent, it is all good.


----------



## mebaali

I have been using KZ R1 (bought for lowly 2 US$ from Aliex) as my bedtime phones for more than a year. These, to me, are very comfortable on the ears with warm signature (in my collection, these are one of the best sub-bass producing phones with more than decent clarity). Not sure, if these are still available for sale anywhere, though.


----------



## To.M

kz ate are not fit for sleeping in them, they stick out of ears too far for this purpose, I happen to fall asleep in ve monks, tennmak piano or joyroom e107 (these are great for that )


----------



## AudioNoob

to.m said:


> kz ate are not fit for sleeping in them, they stick out of ears too far for this purpose, I happen to fall asleep in ve monks, tennmak piano or joyroom e107 (these are great for that )


 

 Nixed the ate then, piano are not available anymore I think, and the monks don't have a mic. So the joyroom is small enough to just not poke out?


----------



## crabdog

audionoob said:


> Nixed the ate then, piano are not available anymore I think, and the monks don't have a mic. So the joyroom is small enough to just not poke out?


 
 Looks like they're still available:
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tennmak-Piano-in-ear-back-neck-sport-detachatble-3-5mm-earphone-earbud-heaphone-with-microphone-and/1183804_32598892980.html?spm=2114.8147860.0.72.RTUt1j


----------



## Ira Delphic

audionoob said:


> to.m said:
> 
> 
> > kz ate are not fit for sleeping in them, they stick out of ears too far for this purpose, I happen to fall asleep in ve monks, tennmak piano or joyroom e107 (these are great for that )
> ...


 
  
 Monk + with mic announced iirc. It can be useful but another point of failure - extra wires so I've been avoiding.


----------



## hellfire8888

ordered the hybrid (ba+dd) hopefully it is good..


----------



## AudioNoob

no mic on the piano anyhow, back to searching..


----------



## To.M

joyroom e107 are amazingly small, you don't feel them in your ears


----------



## AudioNoob

to.m said:


> joyroom e107 are amazingly small, you don't feel them in your ears


 

 before I totally derail the thread, any US sellers for quick shipping?


----------



## To.M

honestly, I don't have the sligthest idea, I always buy on aliexpress exercising my patience 

hm, I see kz zst for 14,22 usd (no mic) tempting ... very tempting


----------



## chavez

mebaali said:


> I have been using KZ R1 (bought for lowly 2 US$ from Aliex) as my bedtime phones for more than a year. These, to me, are very comfortable on the ears with warm signature (in my collection, these are one of the best sub-bass producing phones with more than decent clarity). Not sure, if these are still available for sale anywhere, though.


 
  
 Wait a minute.Did you change your nickname? (sorry for offtopic guys). Also waiting for some ZST impressions ,so I can choose between ZS3 and them.


----------



## 1clearhead

Is the KZ ED7 worth getting? What is their SQ like?
  
 They carry 2 different types -one with a small housing and the other with a larger housing.
  
 Which one is the better buy?


----------



## mebaali

chavez said:


> Wait a minute.Did you change your nickname?


 
 Nope. It's the same username I have been using since the date of joining HeadFi. I doubt that HeadFi admins allow for change of usernames.


----------



## Lawstorant

Just bought ZS3 for $6.40 on Gearbest  Will see how it handles against my little collection. These will be my first KZ's with mic.
 GR, EDSE, ED9, HDS1, EDR2
  
 Now I only need to wait for any ZST and new cable sale.


----------



## Mellowship

1clearhead said:


> Is the KZ ED7 worth getting? What is their SQ like?
> 
> They carry 2 different types -one with a small housing and the other with a larger housing.
> 
> Which one is the better buy?


 
  
 For that price, it's a great IEM. Big bass, doesn't interfere with the rest of the frequencies spectrum. A warm but detailed sound. I like them a lot. And they are rather cute. 
 I've got the big ones. I didn't imagine they were that big... 
 I've heard they sound the same.


----------



## Podster

lawstorant said:


> Just bought ZS3 for $6.40 on Gearbest  Will see how it handles against my little collection. These will be my first KZ's with mic.
> GR, EDSE, ED9, HDS1, EDR2
> 
> Now I only need to wait for any ZST and new cable sale.


 

 THX for this post, going to jump out and score a couple extra pairs at that price


----------



## vapman

6.40 is simply unbelievable. I can't resist not getting another one at that price. Makes me feel dumb for paying $20 but they were damn well worth it then. I sold all my Aurisonics since getting the zs3... they are that good. But a better cable is entirely worth it for them.


----------



## teston

lawstorant said:


> Just bought ZS3 for $6.40 on Gearbest  Will see how it handles against my little collection. These will be my first KZ's with mic.
> GR, EDSE, ED9, HDS1, EDR2
> 
> Now I only need to wait for any ZST and new cable sale.



Can you give me the link?
Can't find it


----------



## rockingthearies

vapman said:


> 6.40 is simply unbelievable. I can't resist not getting another one at that price. Makes me feel dumb for paying $20 but they were damn well worth it then. I sold all my Aurisonics since getting the zs3... they are that good. But a better cable is entirely worth it for them.




Sorry noob question here but what do you mean by a better cable? I thought cable don't affect sq? So basically a more durable cable?


----------



## vapman

rockingthearies said:


> Sorry noob question here but what do you mean by a better cable? I thought cable don't affect sq? So basically a more durable cable?


 

 I personally didn't like how it felt or looked. Whether or not the cable makes a difference for sound quality can not be known and is completely subjective.


----------



## SuperMAG

its not 6.40, wwas there an offer i missed?


----------



## Lawstorant

They're still at gearbest for $8
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21
  
 14 left...
  
 Bought them cheaper bc of points. It was my first time on gearbest so I had 80 to spend


----------



## Thomas De Brito

you have to be patient for them to ship it, it's not shipped right away but for the price it's well worth it


----------



## davidcotton

audionoob said:


> before I totally derail the thread, any US sellers for quick shipping?


 
  
 Aproear.co.uk is an Uk site (headfier on here) pay a little more but get them a bit quicker.  Your choice!


----------



## roy_jones

Finally received my KZ ATE from Gearbest today.  The fit wasn't as good as I thought it might be with the very wide nozzle.  The packaging is very nice for a cheap IEM.  My perception is that it's a generic type dynamic driver in a nicer housing with a nicer cable, etc...  I like the tuning, although I'd probably decrease the mid bass and make it more neutral as opposed to U shaped.


----------



## robervaul

ZST First impressions on Taobao
  

  
 by Google Translator:

_" As zk enthusiasts, realistically speaking, the price absolute value, the headphones sound field very, very clear, three-band equalizer, bass shock, dive deep enough, but not muddy, "Just getting a little mixed, estimated burn for three days, will be reborn "in the midrange and treble beautiful than I used to buy zs2 much better, but also much better than zs3, although feeding headphone cable is the same, but the use of silver wire songs, the best audio-visual effects, the first listen once had loved it. Also, the manager is very nice! Very patient, next time. "_


----------



## smy1

1clearhead said:


> Is the KZ ED7 worth getting? What is their SQ like?
> 
> They carry 2 different types -one with a small housing and the other with a larger housing.
> 
> Which one is the better buy?




I have the ed7 they are basically the KZ Ate on steroids.

Get the mini one because the normal ones are to big for my ear.


----------



## AudioNoob

I ended up ordering from gearbest with priority shipping. That UK site is nice to browse though, thanks


----------



## obelisk619

can anybody link the replacement cable for kz? I read it somewhere and I tried to search this thread but there's too many page I'm having trouble.


----------



## Ruben123

Sennheiser wide bore double flanges solve the driver flex problem of the ZS3s for me. Unfortunately my Eustachian tube malfunctions due to a slight malformation of the mandibula on one side which causes in-ears to pop the whole time when moving my jaw. Of course isolation is a lot less now BUT the bass is much more clean now, actually not bad for classical music when it earlier was a bit overblown.
  
 For replacement cables look on Aliex for the KZ ZST, at least then you find cables.


----------



## obelisk619

ruben123 said:


> Sennheiser wide bore double flanges solve the driver flex problem of the ZS3s for me. Unfortunately my Eustachian tube malfunctions due to a slight malformation of the mandibula on one side which causes in-ears to pop the whole time when moving my jaw. Of course isolation is a lot less now BUT the bass is much more clean now, actually not bad for classical music when it earlier was a bit overblown.
> 
> For replacement cables look on Aliex for the KZ ZST, at least then you find cables.


 
 Sweet! thanks for that info, now my problem is how I would order, hehe


----------



## obelisk619

I just recently got my zs3, anyone else here gets the feeling of somewhat when you insert the zs3 on your ear the sound is great but after 2 to 3 seconds it goes muffled. I'm pretty sure what I have is not a defected product, I think it has something to do with the tips it's like sucking my ear holes or something and whatever of the 3 stock tips I use it's the same.

 I read a wide bore tip may offer some change. I just want to know if any of you experience the same as mine?


----------



## Ruben123

obelisk619 said:


> I just recently got my zs3, anyone else here gets the feeling of somewhat when you insert the zs3 on your ear the sound is great but after 2 to 3 seconds it goes muffled. I'm pretty sure what I have is not a defected product, I think it has something to do with the tips it's like sucking my ear holes or something and whatever of the 3 stock tips I use it's the same.
> 
> I read a wide bore tip may offer some change. I just want to know if any of you experience the same as mine?


 

 Yeah got the same problem. Wide bores fixed it.


----------



## rikk009

loomisjohnson said:


> herewith my initial impressions on the ed3c (the acme):
> heavier and better built than expected, with metal casings, nice mic and well-designed cable reinforcements. comfortable, with very good isolation. soundwise, i hear these as V-shaped; slightly bright and quite airy sounding, with vocals pushed forward. bass punches deep and is reasonably quick, though not as sharply etched as the ed10; mids are clean-sounding and lack some body. treble isn't hyper-extended or detailed, but has very good resolution. drums are not rendered as eerily liifelike as the ed9, tho male voices and guitars sound very natural.  like the ED9, soundstage isn’t huge but imaging and instrument separation are shockingly good—there’s a live-in-concert quality to these.
> so what remains remarkable about the kzs isn't that they're just as good as the best $50-100 sets (they're not), but how close they get for the price of a sandwich. like the ed9, most normal people would find these more than enough.


 
 Hi,
  
 I have seen your comment on XE800 thread. I have ordered one just coz it's basically GR07 not coz I needed an IEM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How would you compare them with KZ lineup?


----------



## loomisjohnson

rikk009 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am seen your comment on XE800 thread. I have ordered one just coz it's basically GR07 not coz I needed an IEM
> 
> ...


 

 the xe800, which was originally $100, is in completely different league in terms of resolution and refinement--it reproduces high end  and is detailed in a way which no $10 kz can touch. however, if you're treble sensitive or a basshead, you might not like it--it doesn't have a lot of midbass presence and is bright; my favorite kzs like the ed9 are more traditionally v-shaped and consumer-oriented.


----------



## loomisjohnson

With most recent attention focused on the much-lauded SZ3 I though I’d share a few thoughts on the less-heralded new KZ, the ED7. The ED7 has two iterations, a larger and a smaller; I opine on the smaller version, which I bought from HCK for seven bucks.
  
 Build quality seems uncharacteristically slapdash for a KZ—the bamboo casings are crudely finished and the rear metal vents are uneven, tho the typical KZ cable is well reinforced. Extremely light and comfortable, however microphonics are very present. Isolation is very poor, I assume because of the rear vents; these are not suitable for the gym or on-the-go.
  
 Soundwise, these are best described as very V-shaped, open and airy-sounding. There’s quite a bit of low end presence, with some subbass rumble, although it seems like some of the impact and tightness is dissipated by the rear vents (if you cover the vents, bass becomes thunderous, though somewhat distorted). Midbass is thick, not especially quick and can bleed over a bit. Mids are recessed (vocals pushed back a little), while treble is smoothish, natural-sounding and quite detailed and extended.
  
 Like my favorite KZ (the ED9), these excel in two respects. First, percussion and acoustic instruments are particularly well-rendered and sound oddly lifelike. Second, while soundstage isn’t particularly large (more width than depth), instrument separation and placement is very accurate—there’s a live quality to these.
  

 Compared to the ED10, these have less well-articulated, shallower bass and less overall clarity, although the ED7 image better and sound more expansive and less congested to my ears. Compared to the ED9, which they sonically resemble, these are a bit warmer, with comparable treble extension and detail; the ED9 has cleaner mids and more midrange presence and sound a little more refined overall, although some may prefer the smoother treble quality of the ED7. Build quality and isolation on both the ED9 and ED10 are much superior.
  
 So in the end we have another good-sounding, ridiculously cheap IEM from KZ. The open-vent design does limit the utility of these, and seems to make them sound more diffuse, but in general these are a very nice listen.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> With most recent attention focused on the much-lauded SZ3 I though I’d share a few thoughts on the less-heralded new KZ, the ED7. The ED7 has two iterations, a larger and a smaller; I opine on the smaller version, which I bought from HCK for seven bucks.
> 
> Build quality seems uncharacteristically slapdash for a KZ—the bamboo casings are crudely finished and the rear metal vents are uneven, tho the typical KZ cable is well reinforced. Extremely light and comfortable, however microphonics are very present. Isolation is very poor, I assume because of the rear vents; these are not suitable for the gym or on-the-go.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds good to me. I suspect the build quality will vary drastically between units due to the use of natural materials.


----------



## koroshiya8

Well, i have the ED7 for some time, and somehow it's been overshadowed by both ATE and ZS3 even though it's priced superbly well and the sound is similar to ATE. 
 Perhaps the bamboo color and make doesnt appeal to all but i swear the sound is equally if not better than ATE and it's been really underestimated.


----------



## obelisk619

ruben123 said:


> Yeah got the same problem. Wide bores fixed it.


 
 I see, hopefully it fixes the problem for me too, thanks.


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> Sounds good to me. I suspect the build quality will vary drastically between units due to the use of natural materials.


 

 you're right--bamboo seems like an odd choice for iem construction, but they know better than me. mine look homemade, but they're actually a nice non-fatiguing listen


----------



## rikk009

loomisjohnson said:


> the xe800, which was originally $100, is in completely different league in terms of resolution and refinement--it reproduces high end  and is detailed in a way which no $10 kz can touch. however, if you're treble sensitive or a basshead, you might not like it--it doesn't have a lot of midbass presence and is bright; my favorite kzs like the ed9 are more traditionally v-shaped and consumer-oriented.


 
 Thanks. I am treble sensitive and was skeptical while ordering but as I said I don't 'need' it but the audiophile bug was pestering me too much after the price drop. Also ordered a ZN3 a while ago. Head-fi is a bad place.


----------



## toddy0191

rikk009 said:


> Thanks. I am treble sensitive and was skeptical while ordering but as I said I don't 'need' it but the audiophile bug was pestering me too much after the price drop. Also ordered a ZN3 a while ago. Head-fi is a bad place.




I didn't find the xe800s over bright and I'm a little on the treble sensitive side too. When you get a good deal they're extremely balanced IMO.


----------



## smy1

koroshiya8 said:


> Well, i have the ED7 for some time, and somehow it's been overshadowed by both ATE and ZS3 even though it's priced superbly well and the sound is similar to ATE.
> Perhaps the bamboo color and make doesnt appeal to all but i swear the sound is equally if not better than ATE and it's been really underestimated.



They sound the same as the ATE but better.


----------



## 1clearhead

Read the replies on the KZ ED7, thanks guys! I might shoot for the smaller version in the later future.
  
 .....But, for now still waiting for the long awaited KZ ZST.


----------



## mebaali

Have placed the order for ZST (at under US$15 for a hybrid with detachable cable, it is simply irresistible for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Muskyhunter

mebaali said:


> Have placed the order for ZST (at under US$15 for a hybrid with detachable cable, it is simply irresistible for me :tongue_smile: )


where?


----------



## mebaali

muskyhunter said:


> where?


 
 Used Aliexpress's mobile app. Seller known as China DIY headphones has them for under 15 US$ (without mic version).


----------



## Muskyhunter

mebaali said:


> Used Aliexpress's mobile app. Seller known as China DIY headphones has them for under 15 US$ (without mic version).


thanks!! Wonder if I should get the silver upgrade cable too...hm..


----------



## xllms

just received the ZST, first impression is quite positive, seems less forgiving to bad recordings. Sounds spacious but sonically not tight, I reckon maybe it's still too new. will let it run through a week before evaluating further


----------



## Majin

xllms said:


> just received the ZST, first impression is quite positive, seems less forgiving to bad recordings. Sounds spacious but sonically not tight, I reckon maybe it's still too new. will let it run through a week before evaluating further


 
  
 Wow thats fast. Are they the best KZ to date?


----------



## Muskyhunter

majin said:


> Wow thats fast. Are they the best KZ to date?


those look great...


----------



## Ruben123

xllms said:


> just received the ZST, first impression is quite positive, seems less forgiving to bad recordings. Sounds spacious but sonically not tight, I reckon maybe it's still too new. will let it run through a week before evaluating further


 
 I think most here would like to hear more impressions instead of having to wait a week  Could you tell us a bit more?


----------



## xllms

I have a ZS3 in my office which I have only started listening last week. Will let both run through a week more before comparing. Just for everyone's information, these earphones use the same socket as westone W4R. I have tried them with my old customized westone cables and they work perfectly fine. I am also waiting for my upgraded cables from the seller in the mean time.


----------



## loomisjohnson

if anyone cares, i posted a wholly gratuitous review of the zs3: http://www.head-fi.org/users/389137/reviews


----------



## Ruben123

loomisjohnson said:


> if anyone cares, i posted a wholly gratuitous review of the zs3: http://www.head-fi.org/users/389137/reviews




If you have, try wider bore tips or even double flanges (Senn), they make the bass much nicer. To the point even, I'm all but a basshead and like my music natural, though with those tips I find the zs3 to be very good. Tad warm, a bit too bassy to be called natural, but for me excellent. And I'm complaining very quickly if I find there's too much bass...


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> If you have, try wider bore tips or even double flanges (Senn), they make the bass much nicer. To the point even, I'm all but a basshead and like my music natural, though with those tips I find the zs3 to be very good. Tad warm, a bit too bassy to be called natural, but for me excellent. And I'm complaining very quickly if I find there's too much bass...


 
  
 Glad to hear you are liking the ZS3. I was afraid they would have wayyy to much going on in the low end for you. The Senn double flange tips (or Havi in my case) do sound great with them, but I can't keep a consistent seal for whatever reason. UE600 tips sounded near identical and seal well, so no big loss. Wide bore tips all the way, keeps the bass at bay, lol.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Glad to hear you are liking the ZS3. I was afraid they would have wayyy to much going on in the low end for you. The Senn double flange tips (or Havi in my case) do sound great with them, but I can't keep a consistent seal for whatever reason. UE600 tips sounded near identical and seal well, so no big loss. Wide bore tips all the way, keeps the bass at bay, lol.




Lol yes indeed, with the standard tips they're way too bassy (for me!), they remember me of the edr2s. Though I haven't heard them in months so it's not fair to compare them. Maybe it too is the lousy seal I get with the double flanges that causes that bass to take a seat backwards. Don't know. Like it. Now waiting to find a good zst deal....


----------



## Muskyhunter

mebaali said:


> Have placed the order for ZST (at under US$15 for a hybrid with detachable cable, it is simply irresistible for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I ordered mine too..thanks. didn't even know it is cheaper on certain products to use the app.


----------



## mebaali

muskyhunter said:


> I ordered mine too..thanks. didn't even know it is cheaper on certain products to use the app.


 
 Glad for you, Sometimes app does provide decent discounts (like this one, almost 3 US$ difference). So I always try to use app first to check for such discounts and then go to their desktop website.
  
 Now the long wait starts till their actual arrival. #Sigh


----------



## Morb

Right... just looking at these KZ buds... too many to choose from! :S

 Which model would you guys recommend for me?  Majority of music that i listen to is Metal, rock, blues rock.
 If none from the KZ line, other brands maybe?


----------



## wastan

ruben123 said:


> Lol yes indeed, with the standard tips they're way too bassy (for me!), they remember me of the edr2s. Though I haven't heard them in months so it's not fair to compare them. Maybe it too is the lousy seal I get with the double flanges that causes that bass to take a seat backwards. Don't know. Like it. Now waiting to find a good zst deal....




Weird because my initial impression with the packed in tips was that the bass was underwhelming. Then I switched to a wider bore, double flange and there it was. Wish it was tighter but not bad for $10


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> Glad to hear you are liking the ZS3. I was afraid they would have wayyy to much going on in the low end for you. The Senn double flange tips (or Havi in my case) do sound great with them, but I can't keep a consistent seal for whatever reason. UE600 tips sounded near identical and seal well, so no big loss. Wide bore tips all the way, keeps the bass at bay, lol.


 

 wow--tried double flanges per ruben and they did in fact take out the giant bass--it was a night and day difference. however, they also took some of the life out of the whole spectrum--the highs lost their crispness.  i think they need that black background, if that makes  any sense. i think we need to let these beasts be beasts--they are put on earth for bassheads


----------



## Redcarmoose

xllms said:


> just received the ZST, first impression is quite positive, seems less forgiving to bad recordings. Sounds spacious but sonically not tight, I reckon maybe it's still too new. will let it run through a week before evaluating further




My very best systems set up were not good with bad recordings. It's because we are being given a window into the reality of the file quality. It is a double edge sword showing the detail as it is and the recording pitfalls as they really are.


----------



## procmail

I'm wondering if the ZSTs (and the **** 4in1) take comply tips or perhaps the olives?
  
 Would like to order some tips to go with the new earphones.


----------



## BoxerRumble

I recently received my KZ ZS3's and am loving them. The sound is very similar to my Yamaha EPH-M200 that broke on me. I think the bass is very comparable, and both of them left me wanting more bass. Is the ATE more bass heavy? Been doing a little research and seems like the Rock Zircon might be what I'm looking for. I would like to get my hands on the Sony xb90ex or 7550/EX800ST when I can afford it, but does anyone know how the ATE or Rock Zircon, will compare to the Sony or the ZS3's? Thank you!
  
 Mike


----------



## vapman

boxerrumble said:


> I recently received my KZ ZS3's and am loving them. The sound is very similar to my Yamaha EPH-M200 that broke on me. I think the bass is very comparable, and both of them left me wanting more bass. Is the ATE more bass heavy? Been doing a little research and seems like the Rock Zircon might be what I'm looking for. I would like to get my hands on the Sony xb90ex or 7550/EX800ST when I can afford it, but does anyone know how the ATE or Rock Zircon, will compare to the Sony or the ZS3's? Thank you!
> 
> Mike




Unless you have a powerful amp and eq the ate is not bassier. The zircon is less than the zs3 as well.. If you want a cheapo that slams find the link to the Elecom thats got a 16mm driver for $25-30 on Amazon. Love my xb90 though


----------



## ArchTK

https://www.amazon.com/Elecom-Ehp-ca3580bk-Stereo-Headphone-System/dp/B00KM5J61M
  
 if this the elecom model you're talking about then let me just tell you that it's a waste of money if you ask me.Harsh treble and mids,but the bass is indeed big.....actually scratch that it's HUGE.Sub bass and mid bass is tremendous,but that's all it has going for it.


----------



## Shadowsora

Wow, hybrid from KZ? I found my way back into budget-fi apparently xD.
  
 On another note, as I am really outdated are ED12 any good? also ZS3.
 I am looking something like ATE but less dark, I really liked the not fatiguing sound of ATE, actually it was my favorite KZ but I always thought it lacked clarity in low/high end, the midrange was great though.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Already ordered a pair of hybrids. 

No way I'm gna pass up an opportunity to hear their first hybrid. 

This thing is either going to sound like crap or blow the roof off of this hobby lol.


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> Already ordered a pair of hybrids.
> 
> No way I'm gna pass up an opportunity to hear their first hybrid.
> 
> This thing is either going to sound like crap or blow the roof off of this hobby lol.


 

 I'm opting for option #2


----------



## Hisoundfi

podster said:


> I'm opting for option #2:wink_face:


me too friend, me too...


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> me too friend, me too...


 

 You were a big driver for me with KZ along with Wokei when I originally started looking at budget iem's and you both sold me on the ED9 which at the time was IMO a destroyer of a lot of iem's costing up to as much as 5-6 times as much
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm thinking KZ is really having to step uop the game with all the new low cost hybrids coming out of China now, as I've said before I find the ZS3 to be a fitting end result to the ZS/ZN lineup as well as the ATR being the same for the ATE lineup. Once again IMO they are both bargains for the money


----------



## Majin

podster said:


> You were a big driver for me with KZ along with Wokei when I originally started looking at budget iem's and you both sold me on the ED9 which at the time was IMO a destroyer of a lot of iem's costing up to as much as 5-6 times as much
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The ZS3 is better than the ZN1 (with the portable amp)?


----------



## Podster

majin said:


> The ZS3 is better than the ZN1 (with the portable amp)?


 

 So far and IMO it is, I have done an AB with both a couple times now. Not to mention you don't have to find a reasonable setup strapping the ZN1 to your DAP! Still like my ZN1 but maybe just for home listening now


----------



## tegR

vapman said:


> Unless you have a powerful amp and eq the ate is not bassier. The zircon is less than the zs3 as well..


 
  
 To my ears both my zircon have more mid bass, sound cleaner, and reach way lower than the zs3. Maybe i'm not getting a proper seal with zs3, although to me it feels like i am as 1 side wants to constantly vacuum. As nice as they look, i've just given up trying to like them and the ed12.


----------



## Ruben123

tegr said:


> To my ears both my zircon have more mid bass, sound cleaner, and reach way lower than the zs3. Maybe i'm not getting a proper seal with zs3, although to me it feels like i am as 1 side wants to constantly vacuum. As nice as they look, i've just given up trying to like them and the ed12.




Got the same annoying problem, need constantly to let air get into my ear canal. It seems that I got it fixed by using the smallest size tips that I got with the Monoprices. The standard small tips too suck my ear vacuum. If it all doesn't work I might poke a very small hole in the iems themselves so it can breath a little. It won't effect the isolation too much I think.


----------



## xllms

just an impression comparing ZST & ZS3.
ZST has a wider soundstage and more pronounced trebles. It sounds more airy and has more nuances. Each note sounds slightly more dense and richer in harmonics as compared to ZS3. ZS3 however sounds more agile and has a more pronounced bass, which also handles complex fast music better, but generally sounds darker. I also thought the ZS3 renders the timbre of instruments more realistically.
These are initial observations on these 2 KZ earphones which both have yet to run in thoroughly. My observations may change as I run in these earphones further.
I tried playing the ZST with an old customized silver plated copper cable that was used with my westone4R. I have to say it sounded really good, rich harmonics and full bodied voices.


----------



## Majin

podster said:


> So far and IMO it is, I have done an AB with both a couple times now. Not to mention you don't have to find a reasonable setup strapping the ZN1 to your DAP! Still like my ZN1 but maybe just for home listening now


 
  
  
 Damn i already thought the ZN1 was close to the UE TF10 level except lacking some of the soundstage. Where is the best place to buy the ZS3? Gearbest or Ebay.


----------



## Ruben123

majin said:


> Damn i already thought the ZN1 was close to the UE TF10 level except lacking some of the soundstage. Where is the best place to buy the ZS3? Gearbest or Ebay.




Id say Ali since you got much longer buyer protection. Been **** so often now by eBay members, not funny anymore. Ali works OK though. Gear best I don't know but probably safe too.


----------



## cyrano13

xllms said:


> just an impression comparing ZST & ZS3.
> ZST has a wider soundstage and more pronounced trebles. It sounds more airy and has more nuances. Each note sounds slightly more dense and richer in harmonics as compared to ZS3. ZS3 however sounds more agile and has a more pronounced bass, which also handles complex fast music better, but generally sounds darker. I also thought the ZS3 renders the timbre of instruments more realistically.
> These are initial observations on these 2 KZ earphones which both have yet to run in thoroughly. My observations may change as I run in these earphones further.
> I tried playing the ZST with an old customized silver plated copper cable that was used with my westone4R. I have to say it sounded really good, rich harmonics and full bodied voices.


 
 Can you do a comparison of KZ-ATE, ZS3 and ZST in terms of size. I didn't buy the ATE because after trying it's a bit large for me.


----------



## xllms

hi cyrano13, i do not own the ATE


----------



## cyrano13

xllms said:


> hi cyrano13, i do not own the ATE


 
 How about with ZS3? Does it have a bigger shell and longer nozzle?


----------



## xllms

cyrano13 said:


> xllms said:
> 
> 
> > hi cyrano13, i do not own the ATE
> ...









 here is an image for you to know better


----------



## vapman

tegr said:


> To my ears both my zircon have more mid bass, sound cleaner, and reach way lower than the zs3. Maybe i'm not getting a proper seal with zs3, although to me it feels like i am as 1 side wants to constantly vacuum. As nice as they look, i've just given up trying to like them and the ed12.


 

 Makes sense if you are using stock tips with the kz? i use wide bore ones (spiral dot)


----------



## rockingthearies

xllms said:


> just an impression comparing ZST & ZS3.
> ZST has a wider soundstage and more pronounced trebles. It sounds more airy and has more nuances. Each note sounds slightly more dense and richer in harmonics as compared to ZS3. ZS3 however sounds more agile and has a more pronounced bass, which also handles complex fast music better, but generally sounds darker. I also thought the ZS3 renders the timbre of instruments more realistically.
> These are initial observations on these 2 KZ earphones which both have yet to run in thoroughly. My observations may change as I run in these earphones further.
> I tried playing the ZST with an old customized silver plated copper cable that was used with my westone4R. I have to say it sounded really good, rich harmonics and full bodied voices.




Ik it is hard to quantify soundstage but how wide does the ZST beat the ZS3, does it easily beat it or do you have to do analytical listening to hear the difference


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> Already ordered a pair of hybrids.
> 
> *No way I'm gna pass up an opportunity to hear their first hybrid.
> 
> This thing is either going to sound like crap or blow the roof off of this hobby lol.*


 
  
 +1 .....looking forward to it!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


xllms said:


> just an impression comparing ZST & ZS3.
> ZST has a wider soundstage and more pronounced trebles. It sounds more airy and has more nuances. Each note sounds slightly more dense and richer in harmonics as compared to ZS3. ZS3 however sounds more agile and has a more pronounced bass, which also handles complex fast music better, but generally sounds darker. I also thought the ZS3 renders the timbre of instruments more realistically.
> These are initial observations on these 2 KZ earphones which both have yet to run in thoroughly. My observations may change as I run in these earphones further.
> I tried playing the ZST with an old customized silver plated copper cable that was used with my westone4R. I have to say it sounded really good, rich harmonics and full bodied voices.


 
 So far, by your small impression on the ZST, they sound promising!


----------



## 1clearhead

xllms said:


> here is an image for you to know better
> 
> 
> 
> from slaiphone6 via Tapatalk


 
  
 Like the PICS!


----------



## MuZo2

Westone4r cable fits? dit it make big difference?


----------



## xllms

muzo2 said:


> Westone4r cable fits? dit it make big difference?



it was different in a good way pretty significantly, but those cables aren't stock westone w4r cables


----------



## Chief Stringer

Are the ZN1 Mini's basically the ZS1s without the stupid memory wire? Im looking for extreme bass


----------



## rikk009

How about using KZ's own spiral tips? https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160918011753&SearchText=KZ+Spiral+
  
 Are they any different to JVC's sonically/comfort?


----------



## carltonh

chief stringer said:


> Are the ZN1 Mini's basically the ZS1s without the stupid memory wire? Im looking for extreme bass



No, different sound signature, more midbass, less subbass, but can sound great if you eq correct them.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Okay thanks man, I was reading B9Scramblers review of them and he meantioned that the ones with the thin gold tips were the bassy ones and the newer mesh ones sounded like the ZN1 mini's, i checked and my ones that broke are the older gold versions, so looks like i may nt be able to get another pair


----------



## CoiL

rikk009 said:


> How about using KZ's own spiral tips? https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160918011753&SearchText=KZ+Spiral+
> 
> Are they any different to JVC's sonically/comfort?


 
 Totally different comfort/build quality/sonics. JVC has dotted inner walls which makes them littlebit special in SQ


----------



## Ruben123

So guys while I almost never listen to music via my phone, Im thinking to get the KZ ZST with microphone. Though just because I almost only use them with the Sansa Clip and a Galaxy i9000 (yes a phone) I was wondering if the microphone jack could cause problems with the Sansa Clip. My brother cant use his ED10s (with microphone) without adapter on his (dumb) phone, because he will only get mono sound. That is not something Id like to see when buying an earphone. Does anyone know?


----------



## Vidal

Most 'mic' earphones will work with normal MP3 players without issue. Older phones had a variety of pin configurations, I think Sony and Nokia went different routes before coming back to the norm.
  
 I can't say for certain you won't get an issue with the Sansa but I'd be very very surprised if you did. If you're UK based IM me I'll send you a pair of HDS3 that I no longer use to try out.


----------



## Majin

vidal said:


> Most 'mic' earphones will work with normal MP3 players without issue. Older phones had a variety of pin configurations, I think Sony and Nokia went different routes before coming back to the norm.
> 
> I can't say for certain you won't get an issue with the Sansa but I'd be very very surprised if you did. If you're UK based IM me I'll send you a pair of HDS3 that I no longer use to try out.


 
  
 I have 2 variants of the Sony MH1C and 1 doesn't sound proper unless i hold the mic button and the other one works as intended.


----------



## Vidal

The two pairs of MH1C I have are both wired wrong you can buy an adapter from Amazon but to be blunt they're outclassed by newer earphones now. In their day they were a performance bargain.


----------



## Majin

vidal said:


> The two pairs of MH1C I have are both wired wrong you can buy an adapter from Amazon but to be blunt they're outclassed by newer earphones now. In their day they were a performance bargain.


 
  
 Could you name a few IEM that outclass them? For some reason I don't enjoy them that much because of the sub bass and rumble.


----------



## Vidal

Majin - I'd love to but because I sell earphones to stay in the sites rules I can't make recommendations as it's against trader rules. In hindsight, I'm not sure that I should have even said that about the MH1Cs - I assumed as they were no longer being made so it was OK.
  
 I'd take a look at the $100 Chinese IEM thread as there's a summary with contributions from a variety of people. A lot will depend on how much you have to spend but that thread is a good a starting place as any.


----------



## Majin

vidal said:


> Majin - I'd love to but because I sell earphones to stay in the sites rules I can't make recommendations as it's against trader rules. In hindsight, I'm not sure that I should have even said that about the MH1Cs - I assumed as they were no longer being made so it was OK.
> 
> I'd take a look at the $100 Chinese IEM thread as there's a summary with contributions from a variety of people. A lot will depend on how much you have to spend but that thread is a good a starting place as any.


 
  
 Sony MH1C is still being sold on ebay. I even bought a back up pair back then. Ye i've been lurking around both China threads but i still don't have a definitive answer. Bought the VE monk to see what current bang for bucks provide.


----------



## Ruben123

vidal said:


> Most 'mic' earphones will work with normal MP3 players without issue. Older phones had a variety of pin configurations, I think Sony and Nokia went different routes before coming back to the norm.
> 
> I can't say for certain you won't get an issue with the Sansa but I'd be very very surprised if you did. If you're UK based IM me I'll send you a pair of HDS3 that I no longer use to try out.




Thanks for the offer, but when I meet him, I can ask for my brothers ED10.  He uses it much though lol

And @B9! I dont want to fool myself, because I disliked the EDR2 but like the ZS3 while I think they have lots in common, could you eventually compare them some time?


----------



## c0rp1

coil said:


> Totally different comfort/build quality/sonics. JVC has dotted inner walls which makes them littlebit special in SQ


 

 By any chance you have tried the KZ Acoustics Eartips and if yes, what do you think about them?


----------



## To.M

ok, the kz zst hype train hasn't started yet but I have just bought a ticket in advance  saw them at 13,50us + 1usd coupon from the seller and clicking BUY was just a formality


----------



## Ruben123

to.m said:


> ok, the kz zst hype train hasn't started yet but I have just bought a ticket in advance  saw them at 13,50us + 1usd coupon from the seller and clicking BUY was just a formality


 

 Where?! Want to get one tonight!


----------



## To.M

here, through ALI APP (!!!) and choose a 1-dollar coupon for purchases above 11usd

http://s.aliexpress.com/UfEZraMv


----------



## roy_jones

Good as the ATE sounds, I'm not a fan of the lack of isolation or ergonomics.  I'm guessing the ED9 doesn't isolate better either.  Curious whether the ZS3/ZST will be better isolating with their design.


----------



## Ruben123

to.m said:


> here, through ALI APP (!!!) and choose a 1-dollar coupon for purchases above 11usd
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/UfEZraMv


 

 Dang, dont have the app. Ebay then


----------



## ILLUZI0N

Anyone know how good the kz hdse are and how they'd compare to the zs3?


----------



## Vidal

illuzi0n said:


> Anyone know how good the kz hdse are and how they'd compare to the zs3?


 
  
 Not yet but will be able to in the future, I've got the HDSE on route.


----------



## ILLUZI0N

Ok cool, thanks! Do you know how long they'd take? I wanted to know what to buy before gearbest's $8 zs3s are gone.


----------



## ILLUZI0N

xllms said:


> here is an image for you to know better
> 
> 
> 
> from slaiphone6 via Tapatalk


I'm trying to decide between them and I'm having a bit of trouble. Which one are you enjoying more right now and how annoying is the molded wire on the ZS3?


----------



## dontcallmejan

Can't wait for my ZST and Benjie k9 to arrive. Will post impressions soon, but I only have the Vyrus, Re-400, and MusicMaker tw1 to compare.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> And @B9! I dont want to fool myself, because I disliked the EDR2 but like the ZS3 while I think they have lots in common, could you eventually compare them some time?


 
  
 I hesitate to compare the two to be honest, if only because I hear the EDR2 so very differently than the majority of us in here. Be that due to actual differences between units or something else, I don't know.
  
 That in mind, I find the EDR2 much less mid-bassy (similar overall extension) with a notably less spacious soundstage. The EDR2 is brighter and not as organic or natural sounding, coming across somewhat dry in comparison. I think the EDR2 bests the ZS3, and most KZs for that matter, when it comes to detail, clarity, and separation, which is why I still think it's the most "hi-fi" sounding KZ of those you can buy right now. I have no issues saying the ZS3 is the better all-round earphone and worth buying over the EDR2, but I still prefer the EDR2 given my personal preferences towards aggressive earphones which the ZS3 definitely is not. I don't think the EDR2 is overly aggressive sounding, but the treble tilt gives it that additional energy the ZS3 is lacking.
  
 Hope this helps (and makes sense, haha)!


----------



## Samuel Lawiet

I like EDM Music,
 so, Which should I choose?

 1.zst
 2.zs3
 3.zs2
 4.zs1
  
  
 *Sorry for my bad english ^^


----------



## Degree

Hey guys, so I'm in the market for a IEM and I was going to get a piston since they've been raved, however it seems like these KZs are better?

 Can someone give me a TL;DR of all of the models? I'm lost.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## smy1

Wait i dont get how people are running iems like zs3 on portable amp without being to loud. I have the nx1 topping and when i plug my zs3 in they are way to loud for my liking.


----------



## smy1

samuel lawiet said:


> I like EDM Music,
> 
> so, Which should I choose?
> 
> ...




I listen to edm like kyrgo, martin garrix, cash cash and thechainsmokers. I use the zs3 and they are good.


----------



## Ruben123

smy1 said:


> Wait i dont get how people are running iems like zs3 on portable amp without being to loud. I have the nx1 topping and when i plug my zs3 in they are way to loud for my liking.




On my notebook, volume 12/100 is the max I could listen to. Driving these things with amps is completely nonsense.


----------



## Majin

ruben123 said:


> Dang, dont have the app. Ebay then


 
  
 Get the app man there are so many discounts.


----------



## Ruben123

majin said:


> Get the app man there are so many discounts.




I know but I'm not fond of the android security combined with one click purchases.


----------



## djmakemynight

ruben123 said:


> Yeah got the same problem. Wide bores fixed it.




Hi, may I know where can I get the mentioned wide bore tips? TIA


----------



## Majin

djmakemynight said:


> Hi, may I know where can I get the mentioned wide bore tips? TIA


 
  
 Aliexpress then search for ear tips spiral. Unless he uses other ones.


----------



## Ruben123

Well they're quite standard wide bores. Also Sennheiser double flange work well. Look on eBay or ali.


----------



## djmakemynight

majin said:


> Aliexpress then search for ear tips spiral. Unless he uses other ones.




Awesome, thanks for the help and swift response!!


----------



## djmakemynight

ruben123 said:


> Well they're quite standard wide bores. Also Sennheiser double flange work well. Look on eBay or ali.




Cool, will look those up as well. Thanks for the help!


----------



## rikk009

djmakemynight said:


> Hi, may I know where can I get the mentioned wide bore tips? TIA


 
 https://www.amazon.com/VICTOR-EP-FX9L-B-Spiral-Earpiece-Size/dp/B00JSLXPUE
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-EP-FX9-Spiral-Dot-replacement-ear-piece-6-pieces-S-MS-M-ML-L-size-Japan-/121947969436?var=420938492279&hash=item1c64aa579cmdkekEG-cz224D-R9t3-vkQ&_trksid=p2349526.m3874.l7936


----------



## djmakemynight

rikk009 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/VICTOR-EP-FX9L-B-Spiral-Earpiece-Size/dp/B00JSLXPUE
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-EP-FX9-Spiral-Dot-replacement-ear-piece-6-pieces-S-MS-M-ML-L-size-Japan-/121947969436?var=420938492279&hash=item1c64aa579cmdkekEG-cz224D-R9t3-vkQ&_trksid=p2349526.m3874.l7936




Gee, thanks for pointing me to these nice tips. They cost as much as the ZS3. 

Are there any mixed sizes pack available though?


----------



## c0rp1

Planing on making a KZ ZST and wanna ask if the mic matters somehow for the sound quality. I mean is there any difference in sound if the cable is with or without mic. Thanks.


----------



## Vidal

c0rp1 said:


> Planing on making a KZ ZST and wanna ask if the mic matters somehow for the sound quality. I mean is there any difference in sound if the cable is with or without mic. Thanks.


 
  
 Never experienced any difference in quality from the Mic'ed/unMic'ed that I've used (MMCX with Senfers)


----------



## guido

any similarity between the KZ ZS3 and the Stagediver SD1?


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> I hesitate to compare the two to be honest, if only because I hear the EDR2 so very differently than the majority of us in here. Be that due to actual differences between units or something else, I don't know.
> 
> That in mind, I find the EDR2 much less mid-bassy (similar overall extension) with a notably less spacious soundstage. The EDR2 is brighter and not as organic or natural sounding, coming across somewhat dry in comparison. I think the EDR2 bests the ZS3, and most KZs for that matter, when it comes to detail, clarity, and separation, which is why I still think it's the most "hi-fi" sounding KZ of those you can buy right now. I have no issues saying the ZS3 is the better all-round earphone and worth buying over the EDR2, but I still prefer the EDR2 given my personal preferences towards aggressive earphones which the ZS3 definitely is not. I don't think the EDR2 is overly aggressive sounding, but the treble tilt gives it that additional energy the ZS3 is lacking.
> 
> Hope this helps (and makes sense, haha)!


 

 No need to be shy B9  I quite liked the EDR2 regardless of its price, though the sound signature was just not what I wanted. I reminded them as a tad V-shaped, just like the ZS3s. Though I "fixed" the ZS3 by using wide bores so I wondered what some different tips could do to the EDR2. For its price I could certainly try it another time, but as per your recommendation the ED3 perfection is on its way, and of course a ZST too. And a spare ED9. And some spare Monoprice 8320 also arrived. lol!


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> No need to be shy B9  I quite liked the EDR2 regardless of its price, though the sound signature was just not what I wanted. I reminded them as a tad V-shaped, just like the ZS3s. Though I "fixed" the ZS3 by using wide bores so I wondered what some different tips could do to the EDR2. For its price I could certainly try it another time, but as per your recommendation the ED3 perfection is on its way, and of course a ZST too. And a spare ED9. And some spare Monoprice 8320 also arrived. lol!


 

 Nice Ruben, got the ZST coming myself and B9 made a good suggestion on your Perfections as well. For my ears the EDR2 was just OK and I went through 5 or 6 tips just never got that "hey Now" with me but that is what makes this hobby fun especially here in the budget world
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think I read somewhere 1Clear wass not impressed with the ZST but then again I think 1Clear has a particular SS he favors and I myself am a little more open to different SS's, KZ has been improving but as we all know sometimes first runs are not what was planned! But once again it never hurts as much when it's budget
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope you enjoy both your Perfections and ZST's Ruben


----------



## Majin

podster said:


> Nice Ruben, got the ZST coming myself and B9 made a good suggestion on your Perfections as well. For my ears the EDR2 was just OK and I went through 5 or 6 tips just never got that "hey Now" with me but that is what makes this hobby fun especially here in the budget world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If i remember correctly 1Clear said the ZST were different than the 4in1 and were more focused on mids. But i'm still waiting for proper reviews.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> No need to be shy B9  I quite liked the EDR2 regardless of its price, though the sound signature was just not what I wanted. I reminded them as a tad V-shaped, just like the ZS3s. Though I "fixed" the ZS3 by using wide bores so I wondered what some different tips could do to the EDR2. For its price I could certainly try it another time, but as per your recommendation the ED3 perfection is on its way, and of course a ZST too. And a spare ED9. And some spare Monoprice 8320 also arrived. lol!


 
  
 I hope you like the Perfection, just keep in mind they may be a little brighter than other KZs. 
  


podster said:


> Nice Ruben, got the ZST coming myself and B9 made a good suggestion on your Perfections as well. For my ears the EDR2 was just OK and I went through 5 or 6 tips just never got that "hey Now" with me but that is what makes this hobby fun especially here in the budget world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The EDR2 never gave me that "aha!" moment either. I certainly liked them right off the bat, but they don't have any immediate wow factor. They're the type of earphone that grows on you over time (imo).
  
 All that said, I found my ED9's brass filters and gave them a whirl with some Echobox tips. Damn nice. Still prefer the Gold nozzles though. The extra sub-bass extension is welcome.


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> I hope you like the Perfection, just keep in mind they may be a little brighter than other KZs.
> 
> 
> The EDR2 never gave me that "aha!" moment either. I certainly liked them right off the bat, but they don't have any immediate wow factor. They're the type of earphone that grows on you over time (imo).
> ...


 

 Yes, my description of the Perfections is bright in signature and heavy in build weight but sure worth their price
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I still believe I lean a wee bit farther to the bright sound than you B9 but have always respected your taste/ear


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> Yes, my description of the Perfections is bright in signature and heavy in build weight but sure worth their price
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Likewise good sir. I thought I liked seriously bright stuff, but JVC's FXD80 showed I have my limits, haha. Plain ol' bright is just right. Also gotta have that sub-bass thunder.


----------



## Razsan

Hi, can somebody from having kz zst compare them with Ostry kc06a ?


----------



## smy1

c0rp1 said:


> Planing on making a KZ ZST and wanna ask if the mic matters somehow for the sound quality. I mean is there any difference in sound if the cable is with or without mic. Thanks.




There is a myth about that but people do say there is slight difference.


----------



## 1clearhead

About the *KZ ZST* so far.....
  
 Unfortunately, the KZ ZST hasn't improved much with 2 more days to go. For example, on the first day, the soundstage was wide and gave me plenty of hope, MIDS and vocals were sounding pretty forward and realistic, while bass impact was promising. But, from 2nd to 3rd day the sound quality was becoming more mediocre and disturbing; more like artificial and grainy, especially the lower MIDS with the treble rolling-off just a bit too much. So far, I don't see them surpassing KZ's Top models like the ZS3, ATE, ED9, or ED11....and others not mentioned here. This is just my personal observation, so far. Others may differ against my results because of their own personal taste and preference.
  
 So far.....
  
*PROS:*
 Wide soundstage, MIDS and vocals are forward and realistic, plus the bass impact is quite good.
  
*CONS:*
 Sounds artificial and grainy at times, especially the lower MIDS with the treble rolling-off just a bit too much.
  
*OTHER RESULTS:*
 Tried many tips for better results, but comply tips seems to work the best.
  
 ....This is all I have so far. I'll continue testing for at least 2 more days until my final results.
  
  
 PS. Might try the ED12 in the later future....


----------



## Hisoundfi

I got behind on my KZs. 

Just ordered the ED12, ZS3, and ZST


----------



## 1clearhead

hisoundfi said:


> I got behind on my KZs.
> 
> *Just ordered the ED12*, ZS3, and ZST


 
  
 I'm interested on the ED12.....please let us know your results later on.


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> I got behind on my KZs.
> 
> Just ordered the ED12, ZS3, and ZST


 

 Let me know what you think of the 12, I had it in my cart until I saw the Hybrid ZST and decided against the 12 since I already have the ZS3 and ATR (also my belief that the ATR is the final iteration of the ATE lineup)! I really like the ZS3 as I find it to be the final iteration of the ZS/ZN single driver line
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mat finish is to die for and IMO better looking than the A&D D2
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may get flamed for that remark


----------



## c0rp1

smy1 said:


> There is a myth about that but people do say there is slight difference.


 
 Favoring the ones without the mic I guess?


----------



## Degree

Can someone give me the differences between the ZS3 and ZST?
  
 Seems like the zs3 is the most popular model

 Thanks!


----------



## squyzz

ZS3 and ZST are pretty different.
  
*ZS3* is a single dynamic transducer with semi-rigid ear hooks.
 108db / 18Ω 
  
*ZST* is a hybrid iem with one dynamic driver and one balanced armature driver
106db / 16Ω 
  
Bothe are detachable cable available with or without remote/mic
  
Just pass an order for myself  :* KZ ZST* &* KZ ZS2* (ZS2 is a dual dynamic driver) 
I think the first thing i'll do is changing the cable for my Linum Bax that y generaly use with my iem


----------



## Happytalk

mebaali said:


> Have placed the order for ZST (at under US$15 for a hybrid with detachable cable, it is simply irresistible for me :tongue_smile: )




How do they sound?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Kinda old hat at this point, but my ATR came in today. First impressions; quite good. Same open soundstage as my launch silver ATE but with more extension at either end. They also seem to have a bit more energy. And as I originally expected from those pics wayyyy earlier in the thread, the cable was improved greatly over the original which shares cables with the HDS1. Pretty sure this is the same cable as the ED3c "ACME".
  
_*Edit: These really do sound nearly identical to the original ATE. Biggest differences are the improvements to treble and bass extension (not huge, but it's noticeable) and build quality. The ATR has a proper nozzle lip! More energy may not actually be there and could be a placebo resulting from the improved extension. Will have to come back to that comment once they've "burned in" and I have a good number of hours on them.*_


----------



## mebaali

happytalk said:


> How do they sound?




Have ordered it only few days back, packages from China usually takes a minimum of 4 weeks to reach my place.

Look at 1clear's impression on ZST, a page back.


----------



## jmwreck

I have just tested my ED12 and the highs sounded a bit dull. Anybody have the same experience?


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Kinda old hat at this point, but my ATR came in today. First impressions; quite good. Same open soundstage as my launch silver ATE but with more extension at either end. They also seem to have a bit more energy. And as I originally expected from those pics wayyyy earlier in the thread, the cable was improved greatly over the original which shares cables with the HDS1. Pretty sure this is the same cable as the ED3c "ACME".
> 
> _*Edit: These really do sound nearly identical to the original ATE. Biggest differences are the improvements to treble and bass extension (not huge, but it's noticeable) and build quality. The ATR has a proper nozzle lip! More energy may not actually be there and could be a placebo resulting from the improved extension. Will have to come back to that comment once they've "burned in" and I have a good number of hours on them.*_




No that is exactly the way I hear my ATR B9 and why I've made the comment that I believe the ATR is the end result of refining the ATE line

I feel the same about the ZS3, it is the final iteration of the ZS/ZN lineup. Both ends reach farther but at the same time the entire spectrum is more clear and precise. Not to mention KZ came up with an awesome fitting shell with a killer mat finish. Of course the big white Left & Right letters scream "Here Stupid" to me, I love them anyway


----------



## rikk009

djmakemynight said:


> Gee, thanks for pointing me to these nice tips. They cost as much as the ZS3.
> 
> Are there any mixed sizes pack available though?


 
 Have you opened that ebay link?


----------



## Ruben123

Guys those ZS3s are crazy good. I havent owned many other <$30 brands besides KZ (XKDUN, Awei, Kanen [lol], Monoprice and some fake Senns) but these are certainly the best Chinese IEMs Ive heard, and that, even though theyre not really my sound style. With wide bore tips the bass really does what it should in classical music, namely, give some enjoyment but not ruining the music. The bass is a bit too much for my taste when Im really critical, but that is with classical only. Strings that sound a bit too dark, Bach's organ works for instance sound quite real with the deep bass. The Monoprice 8320 and Havi B3 give a more critical sound, more precise, (much) more neutral. More neutral yes, but more natural? What I said about the organ's sound, they sound lifelike on the ZS3. As if you are _there_. MP 8320 and Havi give that "audiophile" or "HiFi" sound (what ever that may mean!!!) and that _is_, my dear ladies (?) and gentlemen, a big difference. The ZS3s are natural though not neutral and I think that is why I like them besides my perhaps more HiFi sets.
  
 Forget the ED9s, ANVs (are they even on sale?), HDS1s, EDSes, ED10s, and perhaps the ED3 and EDR2s too, but I have to receive the ED3 first and I havent heard the EDR2 for long so no comment on those.
  
 Curious what the ED3 and ZSTs bring. Im not afraid of some bit better neutralnessness!
  
_Oh dang I completely forgot the mids and highs_
 The mids are very good, what I said, music sounds lifelike, not the least thanks to the mids. Maybe a tad warm, but very detailed. Vocals are excellent, both male and female. Highs are a tad rolled off but *I like it*. It completes the whole package of making the earphones sound so real. No sibilance, but not too dark either. Theyre the right amount. If only the bass was just a little less it would be the very best package available I think!!!
  
 Only problem I got is that the left earphone sometimes sucks itself vacuum in my ear. With the rights tips it happens less, but it still happens now and then.


----------



## djmakemynight

rikk009 said:


> Have you opened that ebay link?




Hi rikk, yeah I did. Ordered the M sized pack through the ebay link. Thanks for the help!


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> No that is exactly the way I hear my ATR B9 and why I've made the comment that I believe the ATR is the end result of refining the ATE line
> 
> I feel the same about the ZS3, it is the final iteration of the ZS/ZN lineup. Both ends reach farther but at the same time the entire spectrum is more clear and precise. Not to mention KZ came up with an awesome fitting shell with a killer mat finish. Of course the big white Left & Right letters scream "Here Stupid" to me, I love them anyway


 
  
 Well, I have to agree with you completely on both fronts. The only things I don't like about the ATR, and both are completely irrelevant, are the font used and that the jack no longer has KZ printed on it, haha. Also noticed that there are two little vents above where Left and Right are printed on the ATR that are missing on the ATE. May those be all that were needed to perfect the ATE sound?
  


ruben123 said:


> Guys those ZS3s are crazy good.


 
  
 Yes, yes they are  Glad you're liking them so much.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > Kinda old hat at this point, but my ATR came in today. First impressions; quite good. Same open soundstage as my launch silver ATE but with more extension at either end. They also seem to have a bit more energy. And as I originally expected from those pics wayyyy earlier in the thread, the cable was improved greatly over the original which shares cables with the HDS1. Pretty sure this is the same cable as the ED3c "ACME".
> ...


 
 Seems I need to get myself a pair of ATR and compare it to 2nd gen ATE FF-mod
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Atm, FF-mod is still on top of my IEM list and even "on par" with **** 4in1 hybrid - which is crazy good result for single dynamic IEM, imho.


----------



## Wokei

ANV in me book ...is that good!

B9...Tell them ...lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

wokei said:


> ANV in me book ...is that good!
> 
> B9...Tell them ...lol


 
  
 ANV is still top dog in my books. That's why my "possibly best KZ?" comments are often paired with, "that you can still buy". There is something special about the ANV. The ED10, EDR2, ZS3, and now the ATR come close though (imo).
  
@CoiL Definitely pick up an ATR. They're super cheap and your mods should port over pretty easily.


----------



## mebaali

KZ R1 (even after rough-n-tough use for over a year, still going strong)
  

  
_(Amazing Sub-bass to be precise)_


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> ANV is still top dog in my books. That's why my "possibly best KZ?" comments are often paired with, "that you can still buy". There is something special about the ANV. The ED10, EDR2, ZS3, and now the ATR come close though (imo).
> 
> @CoiL Definitely pick up an ATR. They're super cheap and your mods should port over pretty easily.


 

 100% agree, that goes for you too Coil


----------



## Majin

b9scrambler said:


> ANV is still top dog in my books. That's why my "possibly best KZ?" comments are often paired with, "that you can still buy". There is something special about the ANV. The ED10, EDR2, ZS3, and now the ATR come close though (imo).
> 
> @CoiL Definitely pick up an ATR. They're super cheap and your mods should port over pretty easily.


 
  
 The KZ ATR can be bought for 4,65 euro i guess thats a no brainer? or get the zs3 for 7,63 euro?


----------



## B9Scrambler

majin said:


> The KZ ATR can be bought for 4,65 euro i guess thats a no brainer? or get the zs3 for 7,63 euro?


 
  
 Better yet...get both! Happy days in hyper-budget earphone land


----------



## Majin

b9scrambler said:


> Better yet...get both! Happy days in hyper-budget earphone land


 
  
 I don't want a drawer full of IEMs. I am already trying to get rid of some of my budget IEMs.


----------



## Podster

majin said:


> I don't want a drawer full of IEMs. I am already trying to get rid of some of my budget IEMs.


 

 That's the way it works with budget iem's Majin, I have given away more now than I have kept and as something bigger and better comes along it's out with the old and in with the new


----------



## Wokei

majin said:


> I don't want a drawer full of IEMs. I am already trying to get rid of some of my budget IEMs.




Yeah... don't be like Podster or B9Scrambler...lol


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


> Yeah... don't be like @Podster or @B9Scrambler...lol


 

 LOL, can you post that watch collection one more time my friend


----------



## Wokei

podster said:


> LOL, can you post that watch collection one more time my friend:eek:




Whatcha talking about... no idea bro



ANV ...me have


----------



## Podster

wokei said:


> Whatcha talking about... no idea bro
> 
> 
> 
> ANV ...me have


 

 Uh huh Willis, don't have a watch one or 10 sitting in a drawer somewhere eh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL
  
 Nice ANV, bet you don't have any other KZ's hanging around either eh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Figured you would be down for the count by now, glad to see you out here this morning/evening


----------



## Wokei

Podster...always a pleasure to cross sword with you brother ..
How different is the ED9 with the latest KZ ...detachable cable ...dang for the life in me ...what is the model name !


----------



## trumpethead

hisoundfi said:


> I got behind on my KZs.
> 
> Just ordered the ED12, ZS3, and ZST



May I ask from what seller?


----------



## loomisjohnson

been spending more time with the zs3--once i figured out which tips tame the bass w/o flattening the rest of the spectrum (in my case, medium spinfit type), i'm thinking that by most objective standards they're the best-sounding kzs. however irrationally, though, the ed9s are still my fave--the zs3 has the bigger stage and more, tighter bass, but the ed9 have that indefinable "naturalness"


----------



## B9Scrambler

Forgot how awesome the ATE/ATR's soundstage is. Listening to Daft Punk's 'Lose Yourself to Dance' and the song sounds so spacious and open compared to....well, pretty much the vast majority of earphones in my collection, haha. ATR pairs very well with the XDuoo X3.


----------



## Degree

Where would be the best place to purchase the zs3? Seems like ali, but if I can buy from the US that'd be awesome


----------



## James Freeman

loomisjohnson said:


> been spending more time with the zs3--once i figured out which tips tame the bass w/o flattening the rest of the spectrum (in my case, medium spinfit type), i'm thinking that by most objective standards they're the best-sounding kzs. however irrationally, though,* the ed9s are still my fave*--the zs3 has the bigger stage and more, tighter bass, but* the ed9 have that indefinable "naturalness"*


 
 I completely agree.
 The ED9 just sound pristine, less coloration than most other IEM or even full sized Headphones I've listened too.
 I can switch between the ED9 and my Studio Monitors with very short brain re-adjustment time (seconds), they are that close.


----------



## Vidal

degree said:


> Where would be the best place to purchase the zs3? Seems like ali, but if I can buy from the US that'd be awesome


 
  
 Check Gearbest, they do carry some earphones in the local warehouses. ZS3 might be too new but GB are the best on price by far.


----------



## Degree

vidal said:


> Check Gearbest, they do carry some earphones in the local warehouses. ZS3 might be too new but GB are the best on price by far.


 
 Alright thanks, I've heard stories about Gearbest never shipping out/shipping out really hate (more than a month). Hopefully that isn't the case for me.


----------



## Vidal

@Degree
  
 Just check the ships on date, this is key, if it's a long way out the chances are they're not in stock.
  
 Using this they've been OK for me but as I'm a trader (and a moaner when things go wrong) I might get preferential treatment. Good LucK!


----------



## KipNix

I've found Gearbest sellers will take a photo of your parcel before shipping it out. It's happened with the Xiaomi Hybrid and the soon to arrive ZS3. Besides, they have a Jordan Carver photo on the front page of their latest "Early Oktoberfest" promotion; I like checking the shipping status every day. Haha


----------



## KipNix

ruben123 said:


> With wide bore tips the bass really does what it should in classical music, namely, give some enjoyment but not ruining the music. The bass is a bit too much for my taste when Im really critical, but that is with classical only. Strings that sound a bit too dark, Bach's organ works for instance sound quite real with the deep bass.
> Only problem I got is that the left earphone sometimes sucks itself vacuum in my ear. With the rights tips it happens less, but it still happens now and then.


 
 That's what I needed to know because I'm going to enjoy them with Progressive Rock; mellotron, synthesizers, and bass pedals. They should work well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Thanks.


----------



## loomisjohnson

james freeman said:


> I completely agree.
> The ED9 just sound pristine, less coloration than most other IEM or even full sized Headphones I've listened too.
> I can switch between the ED9 and my Studio Monitors with very short brain re-adjustment time (seconds), they are that close.


 

 I'm on a (hopefully) protracted IEM buying moratorium, so I will post my personal current  KZ rankings (below order may change on a whim):
  
 1. ED9 (gold filter)—the ZS3 has the bigger stage and more, tighter bass and the ED10  has better overall clarity, but the ED9 has that indefinable naturalness
 2. ZS3—once you find the right tips, most folks would probably find these the best-sounding (or certainly the biggest-sounding) KZ; they trail the ED9 only in the reproduction of drums and acoustic instruments
 3. ED10—rich and clear throughout the spectrum; could stand to be a bit more open and airy
 4. HDS3—irrationally engaging—forward, energetic and surprisingly detailed on top, if somewhat inaccurate; low end can get unruly. I seem to be the only sucker who likes these.
 5. EDSE—not hyper-detailed or extended, and midbass can overwhelm, but tons of oomph and a lot of fun. My rap-happy bride loves these.
 6. ED3c—these lack a bit of midrange body/sizzle, but are otherwise very close to the ed9, with similarly uncanny imaging
 7. ATE—overall good sounding, though lacking in high end extension and sparkle—the ZS3 do the same overall signature much better
 8. ED7—somewhat compromised by the open-vent design, which makes the low end somewhat diffuse and loose and makes for poor isolation. High end is quite smooth yet detailed, if not as refined/natural as the ED9


----------



## rikk009

degree said:


> Alright thanks, I've heard stories about Gearbest never shipping out/shipping out really hate (more than a month). Hopefully that isn't the case for me.



 


Word of caution: My ZS3 bought 7 days back is still not shipped from Gearbest. This also my first purchase from gearbest.


----------



## Degree

rikk009 said:


> degree said:
> 
> 
> > Alright thanks, I've heard stories about Gearbest never shipping out/shipping out really hate (more than a month). Hopefully that isn't the case for me.
> ...


 
 Yea that's concerning, because I've heard nothing but horror stories about Gearbest. Contacting support is useless as well apparently. I'm not opposed to buying from ali as it looks like they have it there as well : https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Original-KZ-ZS3-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic-Hifi-Sport-In-ear-Earphone-Dynamic-Driver/519064_32679857635.html


----------



## strykerx09

I'm deciding between the KZ Spirals and KZ Complys, specifically for my ZS3 (just ordered the ED9 and ZST though!) and was wondering what do you guys generally go for?
 I am leaning towards the Complys though, was not sure what the 3mm vs 5mm was?


----------



## Ruben123

Ed3 perfection came in! First impressions are good, no sharp highs though no anemic bass either.


----------



## djmakemynight

rikk009 said:


> degree said:
> 
> 
> > Alright thanks, I've heard stories about Gearbest never shipping out/shipping out really hate (more than a month). Hopefully that isn't the case for me.
> ...




I got mine off Amazon for 16 bucks with shipping and it arrived before the expected delivery date.


----------



## xuan87

ZST and ZS1. Can't wait to compare to my ZS3 back home.


----------



## Ruben123

xuan87 said:


> ZST and ZS1. Can't wait to compare to my ZS3 back home.




I demand first impressions NOW!!!


----------



## danimoca

xuan87 said:


> ZST and ZS1. Can't wait to compare to my ZS3 back home.




Please do!


----------



## squyzz

Where did you order the ZST ? 
They are still on pre-order at banggood (realease on october 10)


----------



## BramblexD

Just got my ZST,proof:

 I gotta go in 10 mins, but first impressions:
 The bass is strong and deep, but maybe a bit bloated.
 Highs sound a bit veiled, completely overshadowed by the bass in some songs that I thought were quite balanced in the amount of bass vs vocals when listening with my dunu dn 1000s. Weaker than the VE Monk+ in that aspect.
 Listening to a purely bassy song (Tobu-Sapphire), it extends quite bass and is punchy, so bassheads might like these more.  
 Take this with a grain of salt, I don't have much experience with reviews


----------



## petan970

rikk009 said:


> degree said:
> 
> 
> > Alright thanks, I've heard stories about Gearbest never shipping out/shipping out really hate (more than a month). Hopefully that isn't the case for me.
> ...




Mine ZS3 from Gearbest came yesterday. No problem ať all.


----------



## Majin

petan970 said:


> Mine ZS3 from Gearbest came yesterday. No problem ať all.


 
  
 How long did it take?


----------



## rockingthearies

Bought my ZS3 on 3 Sept still havent receive it yet but the status said it have already shipped out so I am guessing i should be receiving it in a week or two. Bought it from gearbest too


----------



## Majin

rockingthearies said:


> Bought my ZS3 on 3 Sept still havent receive it yet but the status said it have already shipped out so I am guessing i should be receiving it in a week or two. Bought it from gearbest too


 
  
 Back in my days it was always +30 days. I am really surprised that they can deliver stuff in 10 days.


----------



## chavez

majin said:


> Back in my days it was always +30 days. I am really surprised that they can deliver stuff in 10 days.


 
  
 Yeah,30+ days,now almost everything I order from China comes in about 2 weeks,14 plus days.


----------



## petan970

majin said:


> petan970 said:
> 
> 
> > Mine ZS3 from Gearbest came yesterday. No problem ať all.
> ...




15 days


----------



## ILLUZI0N

My ZS3 just shipped ordered about 2 days ago from gearbest. (The $8 one) They even took a picture.


----------



## CoiL

loomisjohnson said:


> 1. *ED9 (gold filter)*—the ZS3 has the bigger stage and more, tighter bass and the ED10  has better overall clarity, but the *ED9 has that indefinable naturalness*


 
 Of course this is subjective, but... ED9 with *gold filter *and *naturalness* do not belong into one sentence, IMHSO
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ED9 with gold filter is just too V-shaped signature. 
 But maybe it`s about Your gear matchup or personal preferences, idk.


----------



## Ruben123

bramblexd said:


> Just got my ZST,proof:
> 
> I gotta go in 10 mins, but first impressions:
> The bass is strong and deep, but maybe a bit bloated.
> ...


 

 Thanks for your impressions! To be fair this doesnt really sound good... had hoped for a more balanced KZ with a sort of flat signature.


----------



## Shawn71

illuzi0n said:


> My ZS3 just shipped ordered about 2 days ago from gearbest. (The $8 one) They even took a picture.




Also my wild guess wld be that,you went with free economical shipping?......


----------



## ILLUZI0N

shawn71 said:


> Also my wild guess wld be that,you went with free economical shipping?......


 
 Yup, its probably gonna take a month isnt it.....


----------



## loomisjohnson

coil said:


> Of course this is subjective, but... ED9 with *gold filter *and *naturalness* do not belong into one sentence, IMHSO:rolleyes:  ED9 with gold filter is just too V-shaped signature.
> But maybe it`s about Your gear matchup or personal preferences, idk.


it is subjective, and naturalness means different things to different people, but to me instruments sound more real and less reproduced on the ed9--lots of respected folks here hear them differently


----------



## Shawn71

loomisjohnson said:


> it is subjective, and naturalness means different things to different people, but to me instruments sound more real and less reproduced on the ed9--lots of respected folks here hear them differently




True,I agree on the instrument front with ed9 and also the placement of them.......


----------



## Shawn71

illuzi0n said:


> Yup, its probably gonna take a month isnt it.....




Well, it also depends on the destination, like it may be lesser even but theres no assurance we wld get the packet delivered to our door.......so yeah not sure where the packet gets lost? transit or customs or mail man, being untracked packet or its really dispatched?:rolleyes: just me sayin.


----------



## ILLUZI0N

shawn71 said:


> Well, it also depends on the destination, like it may be lesser even but theres no assurance we wld get the packet delivered to our door.......so yeah not sure where the packet gets lost? transit or customs or mail man, being untracked packet or its really dispatched?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yea, I guess that's true. It doesn't matter much because it's only $8 anyways.


----------



## Shawn71

illuzi0n said:


> Oh yea, I guess that's true. It doesn't matter much because it's only $8 anyways.




Hmm ya but adding $1.99 for tracking #/insured is also better to recover $8 .......peace of mind. But then its personal preference.


----------



## Shadowsora

Well ZST impressions so far are kinda meh, my hybrid hype is slowly dying.
 Never had a Hybrid so I may still pull the trigger once the price settles down a bit, which considering the impressions it will.


----------



## rikk009

My ZS3 is shipped today too. Now it's just long wait. And my XE800 is with customs for 10 days now so am kinda bored.


----------



## BramblexD

On a second quick thought, I much prefer the KZ ZST with the silicon tips from the **** or dunu. They have a wider hole and imo that clears up the vocals slightly and tones down the bass a little, but still with strong sub bass in songs and vocals being slightly overshadowed, and vocals are still a little grainy.
 The soundstage is close/forward? Or how you call it.


----------



## robervaul

Come on KZ!
 We are waiting for you to come and embrace these projects with us.
 2 BA 1DD for $50 *It **would** be** a dream co**me **true.*


----------



## Ruben123

Let them first fix the zst... if they are that average it would be a shame. Perhaps eqing it heavily would fix the sound but im skeptical


----------



## carltonh

Expectations were high for Xiaomi's hybrid too, after they proved they could make the Piston 2/3 really good in performance/price. The disappointment with the Xiaomi hybrid is why I wasn't going to jump on a KZ hybrid without multiple positive reviews.
  
 I also just got the ED7 large...although I had ordered the small. Holy cow, large is massive. So far it is like the ATE/ATR with more extension on both sides, as some have described. Maybe a little bright, plenty of subbass, but no burn-in yet. I'll have to compare it to the ZS3, as I think the ED7 and ZS3 are pretty similar by memory.
  
 Also, I have the translucent ATE and ATE-S, and ATR, and I think the tiny variances in sound are more to do with fit and slight angle changes causing sound changes.


----------



## Taros

I started using KZ when the EDSE and DT3 came out. I recentely ordered a ED9, but I find it to lack the energy of the DT3. Would the ZS3 or ATR work for me?


----------



## NewWaveAudio

Whats the difference between the ZS1 and 2 and how do those compare to the ZST? I currently have the ATE


----------



## B9Scrambler

taros said:


> I started using KZ when the EDSE and DT3 came out. I recentely ordered a ED9, but I find it to lack the energy of the DT3. Would the ZS3 or ATR work for me?


 
  
 Those two are much less energetic than the ED9. It's an oldie, but the ED3 Perfection might be a good one for you. Lots of energy, though it might be a little too similar to the EDse/ED9, but with less bass.


----------



## vapman

smy1 said:


> Wait i dont get how people are running iems like zs3 on portable amp without being to loud. I have the nx1 topping and when i plug my zs3 in they are way to loud for my liking.




Turn your equalizer pre gain down until you are happy with the volume. I boom bass on high gain with a negative 21dB pre gain.


----------



## Degree

What do you guys think about buying from here? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS3-Ergonomic-Detachable-Cable-Earphone-In-Ear-Audio-Monitors-Noise-Isolating-HiFi-Music-Sports-Earbuds/32720789438.html

 They state that it's the official store, but then again it its ali so who knows if it is. There's also domestic shipping from the US, full refund if not received in 7 days. I think I'd pay extra just for the faster shipping and peace of mind, since you also have a 15 day return without shipping out of the US.


----------



## hakuzen

received 2 ZS3 from gearbest. about 12 days from ordering (spain express; normal shipping would take more than 18 days).
 both working flawlessly, but they were for gifting -> i've had to order new ones


----------



## Majin

hakuzen said:


> received 2 ZS3 from gearbest. about 12 days from ordering (spain express; normal shipping would take more than 18 days).
> both working flawlessly, but they were for gifting -> i've had to order new ones


 
  
 Good to hear. Im gonna order myself 1 set


----------



## Majorfifth

Hii guys, its good to see so many people here have kz too.
I have a ED9, and i like it, sounds powerfull, v-shaoed and bit natural i think. But i need a little bit sub bass here.
any recomendation over ear iem from kz ?
Betwen ATE, ATE-S, ZS3 and ATR
This is will be my first over ear iem


----------



## purplesun

Been spending a few days with the KZ ATE(S) after a few weeks with the **** hybrids (DT2 & 4in1).
  
 I think I may have discovered what KZ ATE is/are. They must have been secretly created back in the late 1980s. Such were their incredible musicality that the inventors must have deemed them too dangerous. For fear of being assassinated by agents from big name headphone companies. Hence the secret KZ ATE project was shelved.
  
 I just spent some days digging into old collections: Talking Heads, Mary Black, Extreme, Christopher Cross, Chemical Brothers, just to name some. Everything sounded polished (but not too much), so beautiful and made me forget about all technical details. I am very sure there were flaws, but I didn't care. I was just sucked into the music.
  
 This pair of $10 IEM is indeed a time machine for the ears! Thanks to the aging (& not so brave) inventors from KZ for finally releasing them


----------



## jmwreck

This is my 3rd day of using the ED12, I have tried several tips with different sizes (from KZ) and I can't have a great seal. I have an ED9 and I was hoping that the ED12 can sound close to the former but I find ED12 lost a bit of top end and have a forward mids.


----------



## ChickenButcher

Just received the ZS3 from gearbest this morning, and after listening for an hour or so, I immediately ordered 2 more pairs. They are crazily good! Before, I didn't like the ZS3 as I ordered the first batch from taobao (with matte finish) and there was channel imbalance plus cracking noise on the right side. The glossy ones from gearbest are awesome!


----------



## Taros

b9scrambler said:


> Those two are much less energetic than the ED9. It's an oldie, but the ED3 Perfection might be a good one for you. Lots of energy, though it might be a little too similar to the EDse/ED9, but with less bass.




Thanks, I will definitely give them a shot! Just gonna try the zs3 as well because everybody seems to be enthusiastic about them.


----------



## Ruben123

taros said:


> Thanks, I will definitely give them a shot! Just gonna try the zs3 as well because everybody seems to be enthusiastic about them.




At least my ed3 perfection has more bass than ed9 brass  sub bass I think. Also i think they're more detailed than ed9 in treble regions and while they are a bit heavy, they're quite small so stick in the ears instead of falling out.


----------



## rockingthearies

chickenbutcher said:


> Just received the ZS3 from gearbest this morning, and after listening for an hour or so, I immediately ordered 2 more pairs. They are crazily good! Before, I didn't like the ZS3 as I ordered the first batch from taobao (with matte finish) and there was channel imbalance plus cracking noise on the right side. The glossy ones from gearbest are awesome!




How do the glossy ones sound different from the matte ones?


----------



## CoiL

purplesun said:


> Been spending a few days with the KZ ATE(S) after a few weeks with the **** hybrids (DT2 & 4in1).
> 
> I think I may have discovered what KZ ATE is/are. They must have been secretly created back in the late 1980s. Such were their incredible musicality that the inventors must have deemed them too dangerous. For fear of being assassinated by agents from big name headphone companies. Hence the secret KZ ATE project was shelved.
> 
> ...


 
 Now You could only imagine how my ATE FF-mod sounds!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I also have **** 4in1 and FF-mod is "on par" for me with it. While 4in1 has littlebit more microdetails and resolution... FF-mod sounds littlebit more dynamical and musical with slightly slower(better) decays which makes them so so beautifully open-sounded and natural. 
  
 Now, It seems I gotta get myself ATR and ZS3 to see what my FF-mod tricks do with them ;P


----------



## Paulo099

My sennheiser cx 3.00 broke and I'm stuck with apple earpods (both earphones sound way too bassy so I have to reduce the bass and increase the mids and highs a little bit) so I'm looking for a new cheap iem from KZ. I'm still undecided between the KZ ATE and KZ ZS3. The sound signature I prefer is slight emphasis on bass (mid bass to be exact) without bleeding to the mids  and the mids should not be recessed and I want my highs to be detailed but should not be too sibilant. Also which one has a better build quality?


----------



## Majin

coil said:


> Now You could only imagine how my ATE FF-mod sounds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't want to look back hundreds of pages but what is a FF-MOD?


----------



## purplesun

coil said:


> Now You could only imagine how my ATE FF-mod sounds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I ordered ATR & ZS3 from gearbest few hours ago! I am slightly worried about the ZS3, as I don't like the bass-heavy sound of the ZS2. So, am hoping ZS3 has it tamed a bit. But at US$8, I will just have to drink 2 cups less coffee if I wasted my money on ZS3  
  
 IMHO, I think 4in1 brings a high level of technical listening for very little money, and expands the sound experience for most of us. While KZ ATE is harder to nail down; it should be technically pretty crappy with splashy treble & slightly woolly bass. But once the music starts, nothing else matters except to listen & enjoy. It feels more analog than digital to me. Like an old stick-shift car or or pair of old worn sneakers; nothing special about them, but they somehow make you feel good.


----------



## magewick

Hello folks!

 I'm looking for my next earplugs since all of my JVC HA-FX1X broke. I've had EDSE and ED10 and I was satisfied with them, but since I'm listening to a lot of bass heavy music, the JVCs sounded awesome. Do you know maybe a KZ model that has a similar deep and punchy bass as FX1X?


----------



## koroshiya8

My ZST arrived today.  I do not want to make the same mistake as per ED12 where i made too quick a review but after burn in the music actually improved quite a bit..
  
 so for now.. just pictures 
  

  
 side by side with ZS3
  

  
 The same cable used in ED12 (side by side)


----------



## loomisjohnson

i've been spending more time with the ed7, which i previously ranked last among my 7 or 8 kzs. damnit if the things haven't grown on me alot--the bass has tightened a bit and there's a really clean-sounding high end and spaciousness to these--acoustic guitars and female vocals are very natural. i  a/b'd them with the $59 shozy zero, which have their virtues but actually sound a little compressed and less transparent in comparison. frustrating hobby, this.


----------



## purplesun

loomisjohnson said:


> i've been spending more time with the ed7, which i previously ranked last among my 7 or 8 kzs. damnit if the things haven't grown on me alot--the bass has tightened a bit and there's a really clean-sounding high end and spaciousness to these--acoustic guitars and female vocals are very natural. i  a/b'd them with the $59 shozy zero, which have their virtues but actually sound a little compressed and less transparent in comparison. frustrating hobby, this.


 
 Heh, welcome to the club! 
 I hated my KZ ATE until recently. I fitted on Complys for the first time! Complete isolation, and the sound immediately grew taller and wider. The plodding mids became light & nimble. Even the loose as goose bass tightened a bit. It was such a revelation.


----------



## Sylmar

Look like I'm on the same track. I put Comply's on my KZ ED8's today and I'm really enjoying it a lot all of a sudden. Maybe a secret deal between Comply's and KZ?


----------



## roy_jones

loomisjohnson said:


> i've been spending more time with the ed7, which i previously ranked last among my 7 or 8 kzs. damnit if the things haven't grown on me alot--the bass has tightened a bit and there's a really clean-sounding high end and spaciousness to these--acoustic guitars and female vocals are very natural. i  a/b'd them with the $59 shozy zero, which have their virtues but actually sound a little compressed and less transparent in comparison. frustrating hobby, this.


 
  
 It's really tricky to control for all the factors necessary to make useful comparisons.  Credit goes to anyone who makes the effort to do A/B comparisons because it takes a lot of concentration once you get passed differences in EQ.  I can only make general observations most of the time.  It's why folks like Joker are so valuable to the community.


----------



## vegetaleb

How's the BT from KZ?
 Is it as good as usual SQ from KZ or it's a poor choice a la Mpow?


----------



## roy_jones

The ATE is really growing on me and is close to my ideal sound signature if not for a couple of slight EQ tweaks.  I wish it isolated a little better and the fit isn't as good as I thought it might be in pics.
  
 I'm probably going to pick up a ZS3 and an ED9 in the coming weeks.  Maybe a backup pair of ATE (ATR now?).


----------



## NewWaveAudio

What would you consider the best KZ IEMS for a basshead


----------



## vapman

newwaveaudio said:


> What would you consider the best KZ IEMS for a basshead


 
 TBH none really.
  
 ATE with a strong amp on high gain and LOTS of sub bass EQ honestly.


----------



## Adam Styblinski

That's too bad. I was really hoping I finally found a replacement for my long dead UE Super.Fi 5EBs.


----------



## Ruben123

Never had them and dont know if I can recommend them due to their weight, but KZ ED8 is often mentioned.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

vapman said:


> TBH none really.
> 
> ATE with a strong amp on high gain and LOTS of sub bass EQ honestly.


 
 I currently have the ATE and a Fiio E12. I really enjoy them, but was seeing people claiming the the SZ1 and 2 have a lot of bass. I'm not a pure basshead (anymore), but i do enjoy the occasional thump. I'm still kicking myself for returning my M50x and just keeping the ProMK2


----------



## vapman

I never tried either of those so I can't say for sure. But KZ always uses small drivers, like 6mm thru 8mm i don't even think they make a 9mm driver anymore. They'll never be able to hang with 14mm, 15mm, 16mm dynamic drivers which are gonna push a crap ton more bass with zero effort. IT takes heavy EQ and amping to get a 8mm driver ATE to get rumbly.


----------



## Podster

adam styblinski said:


> That's too bad. I was really hoping I finally found a replacement for my long dead UE Super.Fi 5EBs.


 

 Yeah Baby


----------



## Adam Styblinski

podster said:


> Yeah Baby



So jealous. Best basshead iem I ever experienced, though limited as my experiences are. A bit boomy, but.... So. Much. Beautiful. Bass. Ended up going through 3 pairs. 2 driver hybrid, 13mm DD + aperture for mids/highs.


----------



## vapman

Maybe you should consider the sony xb90ex?
 costs as much as 7 KZ's but worth it


----------



## Adam Styblinski

Yea, I think I will have to at some point... The xb90ex's seem to be the most recommended <$300 basshead iem. (Or maybe the wooduos?)

I can still blame Logitech for buying out UE, then promptly discontinuing the EBs, right?


----------



## Adam Styblinski

vapman said:


> Maybe you should consider the sony xb90ex?
> costs as much as 7 KZ's but worth it


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to break down and buy those at some point...


----------



## Podster

adam styblinski said:


> So jealous. Best basshead iem I ever experienced, though limited as my experiences are. A bit boomy, but.... So. Much. Beautiful. Bass. Ended up going through 3 pairs. 2 driver hybrid, 13mm DD + aperture for mids/highs.


 

 They do have the Boom Boom 4 sure, these just sit in my archive drawer these days like museum pieces
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Along with a couple MD players, Sports Walkman's and matching MDL 3L2 headphones! Really starting to give away my age now


----------



## koroshiya8

While the hype is now on ZST, i just found a gem in the silver plated cable for ZS3.
  
 wow, i love the 'upgrade' much, as the cable brings up the highs slightly which i find it somehow lacking in the original cable. 
 To me this should be the perfect combination


----------



## xllms

could u share where did u find this silver cable? is it a full silver cable or silver plated copper cable? thank u


----------



## koroshiya8

xllms said:


> could u share where did u find this silver cable? is it a full silver cable or silver plated copper cable? thank u


 
  
 Hi this is silver plated, and meant for the ZS3. That was the only cable available at the time of purchase.
  
 you can find more info here;


----------



## koroshiya8

xllms said:


> could u share where did u find this silver cable? is it a full silver cable or silver plated copper cable? thank u


 
  
 Hi this is silver plated, and meant for the ZS3. That was the only cable available at the time of purchase.
  
 you can find more info here;
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3-5MM-1-2M-Plated-Silver-Earphone-Cable-0-75MM-2pin-Diy-Upgraded-Audio-Cable/32729989238.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.9.fmx2so&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_7,searchweb201602_5_10057_10056_10065_10068_10055_10054_10069_10059_10058_418_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_6&btsid=8b6d0d87-475e-4dd6-8bb8-a8d0356b520b


----------



## NewWaveAudio

I know a lot of people say burn in doesn't exist, but there is a noticeable difference in KZ ATE after a bit of listening time. I was kind of disappointed with them when I initially heard them and now I love them


----------



## koroshiya8

It does exist. It happend to the ed12 I had.


----------



## James Freeman

Monitors, in-ear or speakers, should not color the sound at all.
 This is a misconception that you have to buy headphones or speakers to match the music you listen too.
  
 Monitors should be flat/banal and represent all frequencies equally, all else is done in the mix if the artist intends so.
 The artists themselves mix on a flat studio monitors, so to perfectly recreate their art use flat monitors/speakers.


----------



## xllms

koroshiya8 said:


> xllms said:
> 
> 
> > could u share where did u find this silver cable? is it a full silver cable or silver plated copper cable? thank u
> ...



Thanks... I guess this is the same silver plated cable I have for the ZST

Sent from my Mi-4c using Tapatalk


----------



## danimoca

Isn't that a bit too cheap for a silver plated cable?


----------



## kalo86

purplesun said:


> IMHO, I think 4in1 brings a high level of technical listening for very little money, and expands the sound experience for most of us. While KZ ATE is harder to nail down; it should be technically pretty crappy with splashy treble & slightly woolly bass. But once the music starts, nothing else matters except to listen & enjoy. It feels more analog than digital to me. Like an old stick-shift car or or pair of old worn sneakers; nothing special about them, but they somehow make you feel good.




Hi, so what do you think is better between **** 4in1 and KZ ATE? Your words starting from the IMHO are a little bit double sense


----------



## sharpex

Hi guys,
 within a few months I have accumulated several IEM including **** 4-in-1, KZ ED9, ED3, Xiaomi Hybrid (fantastic), VE Monk Plus, Qian25,but ATE for me is magical, a bridge of communication between the IEM and the speakers, incredible soundstage, although lacking detail on medium and high, takes second place.
 I also tried Havi B3 pro but there is no story, I love ATE !
 Am I crazy?


----------



## purplesun

kalo86 said:


> Hi, so what do you think is better between **** 4in1 and KZ ATE? Your words starting from the IMHO are a little bit double sense


 
 Putting aside which is "better", as it is different for all of us:
  
 - 4in1 has more details than KZ ATE. KZ ATE's highs can get noticeably distorted (esp cymbals). 4in1 has wider frequency response than KZ ATE.
 - KZ ATE has a richer mid-range than 4in1. It is more forgiving on less than perfect recordings. And has less chance of harshness than 4in1. It has a more open sound field than 4in1 (although it may have been due to the songs I was playing).
  
 IMO, both of these IEMs are quite different (and quite good) in they way they perform, so I recommend getting both. Just make sure to get a good seal with KZ ATE or else it sound really horrible (highly recommend Complys).
  
 Think of KZ ATE as an italian-made hot hatch, and 4in1 as German-made hot hatch (heh, just noticed your country of origin).


----------



## haiku

The KZ ATE is a very addictive iem. Man......!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I let the Remax RM-S1 burn in atm. Let´s see how it sounds compared to the ATE.


----------



## Ruben123

Maybe that new ate has all requirements you need? It should have more extension on both ends. Never having tried the ate I might give them a go. Always hated the over ear style but the zs3 surprised me much. Also I'd like to hear more about the zst guys!!!! Are they really that bass heavy? Can they be eq'ed?


----------



## dilidani

ZST vs ED12 vs ZS3. All of them are tempting but dont want 3 more iems haha


----------



## Ruben123

Guys I lost track a bit. I thought I had seen new, grey ATE lookalikes from KZ, but not the ATRs, another one. How is it called? Also, which is the "ATE" with better extension? The ATR or the other one?


----------



## Majin

ruben123 said:


> Guys I lost track a bit. I thought I had seen new, grey ATE lookalikes from KZ, but not the ATRs, another one. How is it called? Also, which is the "ATE" with better extension? The ATR or the other one?


 
  
 its the ATR with the better extension
  


dilidani said:


> ZST vs ED12 vs ZS3. All of them are tempting but dont want 3 more iems haha


 
  
 I feel you they cost a few euro's and that i won't mind for testing out some value IEMs but i feel like i should save up for some high end stuff.


----------



## Ruben123

majin said:


> its the ATR with the better extension
> 
> 
> I feel you they cost a few euro's and that i won't mind for testing out some value IEMs but i feel like i should save up for some high end stuff.


 

 Found it! Its the HD9; https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ATE-Copper-Driver-Ear-Hook-HiFi-In-Ear-Earphone-Sport-Headphones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_0,searchweb201602_4_10057_10056_10065_10068_10055_10054_10069_10059_10058_418_10073_10017_10070_10060_10061_10052_9999_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_7&btsid=6dd98c3c-115a-4feb-9bda-19d4d43d2bf0
  
 Anyone got one already? And how is the ATR compared to ED9 brass and ZS3?


----------



## maxwelled

I have both the **** 4in1 and KZ ZST. I'll give my opinion between the two; if I had to choose which is better then the **** 4in1 wins hands down. Also keep in mind that I'm not a professional reviewer nor am I well versed with all the audiophile lingo lol but I'll give a comparison between the two based on my impressions on them. I'm using Xduoo X3 rockboxed with a Fiio 11k as the source.
  
 KZ ZST - w/ stock tips:
 Right out of the box the ZST sounds dark/warm, veiled, and the bass at times overpowers the vocals. Sound stage and imaging is disappointing. Isolation is pretty good even with the stock tips. I get a pretty good seal with the stock tips but the tips are hard and are uncomfortable and the bore on the tips are pretty small. I'll need to find and test other tips with a bigger bore and hopefully it'll improve the sound. At the moment the ZST is still being burned in, it has around 20 hours so far; and I can honestly say that it has improved. It cleared up 'some' of the veil on the high and mids but unfortunately it is still present. The sound signature of the ZST is definitely geared towards bassheads. I am still waiting for the KZ upgraded silver plated cable and will update this if there is any improvements.
  
 **** 4in1 - w/ memory foam bullet style tips:
 The 4in1 sound signature is more neutral, highs and mids are clear - you can easily pick out the details, the bass is there but not overpowering or boomy. Sound stage and imaging is good; way better than the ZST. Isolation is pretty good with memory foam tips, however the stock tips sucked for me as I just couldn't get a good seal.
  
 I use IEM when I play CS:GO and Overwatch; the **** 4in1 really shines on first person shooter games due to its clear and detailed sound and having good sound stage and imaging. The ZST on the other hand really shows it's flaw on games, the veiled sound and the lack of sound stage and imaging makes it very difficult to detect the direction of where the sound is coming from.
  
 I'm not on any hype train, I gave my honest opinion and between the two hybrids the **** 4in1 is better. On another note, I also have the KZ ATR and ZS3 unopened, will burn them in before I give my impressions.
  
  
 Edit/Update: In no way I am knocking the KZ ZST, it is still really good for the price of $16. It definitely has a place in my collection. Also, I changed the tip to one with a bigger bore - the 'veil' was further reduced and made the sound clearer and brightened it up some.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> I have both the **** 4in1 and KZ ZST. I'll give my opinion between the two; if I had to choose which is better then the **** 4in1 wins hands down. Also keep in mind that I'm not a professional reviewer nor am I well versed with all the audiophile lingo lol but I'll give a comparison between the two based on my impressions on them. I'm using Xduoo X3 rockboxed with a Fiio 11k as the source.
> 
> KZ ZST - w/ stock tips:
> Right out of the box the ZST sounds dark, veiled, and the bass at times overpowers the vocals. Sound stage and imaging is disappointing. Isolation is pretty good even with the stock tips. I get a pretty good seal with the stock tips but the tips are hard and are uncomfortable and the bore on the tips are pretty small. I'll need to find and test other tips with a bigger bore and hopefully it'll improve the sound. At the moment the ZST is still being burned in, it has around 20 hours so far; and I can honestly say that it has improved. It cleared up 'some' of the veil on the high and mids but unfortunately it is still present. The sound signature of the ZST is definitely geared towards bassheads. I am still waiting for the KZ upgraded silver plated cable and will update this if there is any improvements.
> ...




Thanks for this, really helped a lot. I don't intend to game with IEM's but still much appreciated. Looking forward to your impressions of the ZS3.


----------



## newhere

maxwelled said:


> I use IEM when I play CS:GO and Overwatch; the **** 4in1 really shines on first person shooter games due to its clear and detailed sound and having good sound stage and imaging. The ZST on the other hand really shows it's flaw on games, the veiled sound and the lack of sound stage and imaging makes it very difficult to detect the direction of where the sound is coming from.


 
  
 I think I made the right decision by ordering these..
 btw it seems 4in1 has bright sound signature, do you feel any harshness in sound while playing csgo? or the bass quantity is more enough to reduce it?


----------



## chaiyuta

Is ATR newer than ATE and ATE-S?
 Is ATR sound better than ATE and ATE-S?


----------



## Ruben123

podster said:


> Well as a get well present to myself I dropped $27 on a pair of ZS3's and ATR's, updates to follow


 

 Might have missed it, but how do you like the ATR pod? I dont like the way theyre replacing the nice shield form boxes (which you can use) with just plastic cover boxes....
  
 Dang I really need to have some of the old shield boxes as I dont have any anymore. Where should I buy my ED9s? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Last got them for $7,99 (black) with the box. Cheapest I can find now is 8,99. -what does it matter?- Much! Part of the game.


----------



## maxwelled

newhere said:


> I think I made the right decision by ordering these..
> btw it seems 4in1 has bright sound signature, do you feel any harshness in sound while playing csgo? or the bass quantity is more enough to reduce it?


 

 Yes, the 4in1 is a little bright but it is not overly so, the sound and bass is just 'right' and I don't experience any harshness in games. You can hear footsteps clearly and be able to pinpoint the distance and direction where it is coming from. And what's great about using a hybrid (4in1) is the separation and the details of game sounds (gunshots, footsteps, nades, voices, etc.) not getting muffled and distorted even if it is being played all at once; hence why I even opted to use IEM instead of a full size headphone. Keep in mind that the tips do play a role on how the 4in1 sounds, I'm using the 5mm memory foam bullet style tips.
  


chaiyuta said:


> Is ATR newer than ATE and ATE-S?
> Is ATR sound better than ATE and ATE-S?


 

 ATR is newer than ATE and ATE-S, and my initial impression on the ATR sound quality even without burn-in is that it is better than the ATE and ATE-S. However, you will need to change the tips as the stock ones are terrible. I recommend getting silicone tips with a wide bore. And as you wear them, don't push them in your ears too deep as it will kill the SQ and makes the soundstage really narrow. Just get a good seal and that's enough, ATR's SQ seems to be affected by how you wear them. At $5 from gearbest they're a no brainer - get them!


----------



## audionoobz

Should i get the ATR or ZS3?


----------



## maxwelled

audionoobz said:


> Should i get the ATR or ZS3?


 
  
 It really comes down to how much you want to spend. The difference in sound between the two is not night and day but there are slight differences where the updated ZS3 slightly edges out the ATR. As for the price; ATR being $5 and the ZS3 is $8. The ATR looks cheap but sounds expensive. The ZS3 fits better, looks expensive and sounds expensive. For either one you'll need to invest in better silicone tips, and I don't recommend using memory foam on them - makes it really hard to put on.


----------



## Ruben123

maxwelled said:


> It really comes down to how much you want to spend. The difference in sound between the two is not night and day but there are slight differences where the updated ZS3 slightly edges out the ATR. As for the price; ATR being $5 and the ZS3 is $8. The ATR looks cheap but sounds expensive. The ZS3 fits better, looks expensive and sounds expensive. For either one you'll need to invest in better silicone tips, and I don't recommend using memory foam on them - makes it really hard to put on.


 

 I already have the ZS3 but ordered the ATR too. Comparisons are welcome but for that price it's worth a try.


----------



## audionoobz

The price difference isnt really too much so i would much prefer to get the better sounding one. So according to your statement i should be gettinf the ZS3?


----------



## maxwelled

audionoobz said:


> The price difference isnt really too much so i would much prefer to get the better sounding one. So according to your statement i should be gettinf the ZS3?




Yes, that's correct. As for silicone tips, I'm using JVC spiral dot tips, the KZ spiral tip also worked well and they're fairly cheap. You can grab them at Ali for a buck and some change.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> It really comes down to how much you want to spend. The difference in sound between the two is not night and day but there are slight differences where the updated ZS3 slightly edges out the ATR. As for the price; ATR being $5 and the ZS3 is $8. The ATR looks cheap but sounds expensive. The ZS3 fits better, looks expensive and sounds expensive. For either one you'll need to invest in better silicone tips, and I don't recommend using memory foam on them - makes it really hard to put on.


 
  
 May I know where to get ZS3 for $8? The cheapest I found on Aliexpress was around $18: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZS3-Ergonomic-Detachable-Cable-Earphone-In-Ear-Audio-Monitors-Noise-Isolating-HiFi-Music-Sports-Earbuds/1358152_32720789438.html


----------



## Majin

fonkepala said:


> May I know where to get ZS3 for $8? The cheapest I found on Aliexpress was around $18: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZS3-Ergonomic-Detachable-Cable-Earphone-In-Ear-Audio-Monitors-Noise-Isolating-HiFi-Music-Sports-Earbuds/1358152_32720789438.html


 
  
 Gearbest


----------



## fonkepala

majin said:


> Gearbest


 
  
 Cool, thanks Majin! I haven't had any experience buying from Gearbest yet...is it similar to Aliexpress and are they based in China as well? Also, the KZ ZS3 on Gearbest...they're completely genuine & not knockoffs? I see that on Aliexpress they at least have an 'official' KZ store...not sure who the seller is on Gearbest.


----------



## Majin

fonkepala said:


> Cool, thanks Majin! I haven't had any experience buying from Gearbest yet...is it similar to Aliexpress and are they based in China as well? Also, the KZ ZS3 on Gearbest...they're completely genuine & not knockoffs? I see that on Aliexpress they at least have an 'official' KZ store...not sure who the seller is on Gearbest.


 
  
 If you read a few pages back several people have received their genuine ZS3 from Gearbest in China.


----------



## fonkepala

Ok, thanks Majin.
  
 I've pulled the trigger on the ZS3 and ATR, both from Gearbest. Can't wait to try them out when they arrive


----------



## maxwelled

fonkepala said:


> Ok, thanks Majin.
> 
> I've pulled the trigger on the ZS3 and ATR, both from Gearbest. Can't wait to try them out when they arrive




I've also received mine from Gearbest.com and they're genuine. Cheers! You'll love them both. :]


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> I've also received mine from Gearbest.com and they're genuine. Cheers! You'll love them both. :]


 
  
 Thanks, your views on them were partly what made me pull the trigger  Looking forward to more of your impressions on the ZS3 & ATR as you get more acquainted with them.


----------



## kalo86

Hello guys! Is there someone who can advice me among KZ ZS3, ATR and ED9? Actually I use the Rock Zircon iem which I find fantastic. I would like to discover a possibly better iem but days ago I tried the KZ ATE and I did not enjoy them... Maybe the ZS3 or ATR or ED9 are better than ATE?


----------



## Podster

My order would be:
ED9
ZST
ATR


----------



## B9Scrambler

kalo86 said:


> Hello guys! Is there someone who can advice me among KZ ZS3, ATR and ED9? Actually I use the Rock Zircon iem which I find fantastic. I would like to discover a possibly better iem but days ago I tried the KZ ATE and I did not enjoy them... Maybe the ZS3 or ATR or ED9 are better than ATE?


 
  
 ZS3 if you want some excellent bass, a great soundstage, and good separation. Solid instrument placement too.
  
 ATR (which is my fav of the three) is similar to ZS3 in all regards but has more relaxed treble and less bass. Also a direct enhancement of the ATE improving extension at both ends. It's the most natural sounding of the three to me; ZS3 too bassy, ED9 too bright.
  
 ED9 is like getting two different earphones. Gold nozzles have enhanced bass, nicely extended treble. Less than the ZS3 but more than the ATR. Control is alright. Brass nozzles dial down the bass (treble and mids stay virtually the same imo) and make them more balanced. I feel the ED9 is brighter and lacks the refinement of the other two. It's also a little edgy in the treble at times. Soundstage is nowhere near the size of the above two. Still, the ED9 is excellent and is a favorite among many for a reason. Due to a more traditional design, surely it will be easier to get a good seal, and they can be worn cable up or down. 
  
 Really, you can't go wrong with any of them.


----------



## kalo86

podster said:


> My order would be:
> ED9
> ZST
> ATR




Since I prefer a warmer sound, I think to understand that the ZS3 are a better choise.
Now I would like to understand what could be the best for me between ZST and ZS3


----------



## fonkepala

podster said:


> My order would be:
> ED9
> ZST
> ATR


 
  
 In ascending or descending order of 'awesomeness'?


----------



## Comebackboy

Been looking around several forums and it seems like the ZS3 is better than the ZST sound-wise. Anyone can comment on that? I ordered the ZST but thinking if I should cancel and switch to the ZS3


----------



## haiku

I´m deeply impressed by the ATE. It´s the only earphone with which I can enjoy *all my music files, whether 16/44 or highres. *


----------



## sharpex

haiku said:


> I´m deeply impressed by the ATE. It´s the only earphone with which I can enjoy *all my music files, whether 16/44 or highres. *


 
you're not alone.
I am listening to the discography E.L.P. through different eyes, I really appreciate the drums of Palmer.


----------



## haiku

sharpex said:


> you're not alone.
> I am listening to the discography E.L.P. through different eyes, I really appreciate the drums of Palmer.


 

 Yeah, I love ELP, too!
 I couldn´t believe how fast I adapted to the bass of the ATE. Couldn´t live without it any longer!
 I have the ATE S and ZS3 on the way, too.....


----------



## 1clearhead

comebackboy said:


> Been looking around several forums and it seems like the ZS3 is better than the ZST sound-wise. Anyone can comment on that? I ordered the ZST but thinking if I should cancel and switch to the ZS3


 
  
 I remember buying the very first batch of the ZS3 and returning them for the slight defect, which 'cause one side to sound louder. And all I can say, for the little time I listened to them I enjoyed their SQ and had nothing bad to say in that perspective. And, even though in China the ZST are cheaper than the ZS3. I would definitely go with the ZS3.
  
 .....My review, coming to you really soon, does not favor the ZST. --> More on that later.


----------



## smy1

robervaul said:


> Come on KZ!
> 
> We are waiting for you to come and embrace these projects with us.
> 
> 2 BA 1DD for $50 *It* *would* *be* *a dream co**me* *true.*




Msg Kz official store in aliexpress


----------



## sharpex

Ate is addictive. I also ED9 but are much more clean and crystal clear, and I prefer the meanest sound of ATE.
 I don't buy ZS3 or ZST for now, expect to consume what they have at home.
 I hope that the difference is not huge.


----------



## Ruben123

1clearhead said:


> I remember buying the very first batch of the ZS3 and returning them for the slight defect, which 'cause one side to sound louder. And all I can say, for the little time I listened to them I enjoyed their SQ and had nothing bad to say in that perspective. And, even though in China the ZST are cheaper than the ZS3. I would definitely go with the ZS3.
> 
> .....My review, coming to you really soon, does not favor the ZST. --> More on that later.


 

 Are you a bit into EQ'ing? Im interested in how they can be altered since they have 2 drivers of course. Here is a nice tut by Joe. http://www.head-fi.org/t/794467/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-2016-update
  
 Even if you are not into EQ'ing, it sure is worth a try (at least the first part; getting a "flat" sine wave in the EQ and then have at least a nice EQ in the Potplayer on your PC).


----------



## Comebackboy

1clearhead said:


> I remember buying the very first batch of the ZS3 and returning them for the slight defect, which 'cause one side to sound louder. And all I can say, for the little time I listened to them I enjoyed their SQ and had nothing bad to say in that perspective. And, even though in China the ZST are cheaper than the ZS3. I would definitely go with the ZS3.
> 
> .....My review, coming to you really soon, does not favor the ZST. --> More on that later.


 
 Sigh any early heads-up on whats wrong with the ZST? Or what the ZS3 is better at? Should I change my order then? I don't listen to alot of bass-heavy music though it's mostly acoustic
  
 What about the ATE as well?


----------



## VinceHill24

Need some advice here. I saw the KZ ZS3 at gearbest at just 8++ USD, was thinking are they legit coz everywhere else i check they are around 15USD to 20USD even Taobao also at around 160++ RMB. It just make no sense to me that how can gearbest be that much cheaper compared to others (even the original retail price they put it at 12.5USD which is still cheaper than the others), are there different version of ZS3 out there that i'm not aware of ??? Anyone who've bought from Gearbest please advice. Thank you.


----------



## Ruben123

Think of this. It would be silly to make a counterfeit product from an earphone that costs new only few bucks more. Besides I've yet to see a counterfeit KZ.


----------



## Vidal

The ZS3 from Gearbest are genuine - either that or they've managed to make a brilliant sounding copy.


----------



## VinceHill24

If they're legit (Gearbest ones i mean) then those other AE and Taobao sellers must've reaped off lots of profit from the ZS3 given how cheap it is the actual build cost of ZS3. And to me Gearbest seems to be much more reliable and reputable than those other AE sellers.


----------



## djmakemynight

I got the glossy zs3 off Amazon for 8 bucks as well. It sounds perfectly fine to me.


----------



## sfogar

OT: I've got already the KZ ZS3 but I'd like to try **** 4in1, in this case is it better to purchase them without cable and buy a separate one ? If yes which one ?


----------



## 1clearhead

My review and thoughts on the *KZ-ZST*
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/820747/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-portable-headphones-and-iems/555#post_12891194
  
 Don't say I didn't warn you......


----------



## haiku

Since it´s release 43 years ago, I still can experience Pink Floyd´s DSOTM anew with the ATE. Thank you, KZ!


----------



## MuZo2

Anyone has both TFZ series and KZ ZST? is shell same size?


----------



## Comebackboy

1clearhead said:


> My review and thoughts on the *KZ-ZST*
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/820747/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-portable-headphones-and-iems/555#post_12891194
> 
> Don't say I didn't warn you......


 
 Sigh I read your review and seems quite disheartening, I was really on the hype train for the ZSTs! Not sure if I should switch my ZST for ZS3 now.


----------



## kalo86

Like I just wrote on the review topic, it would be fantastic to read a comparison with also the KZ ZS3 and the Rock Zircon iem!


----------



## purplesun

haiku said:


> Since it´s release 43 years ago, I still can experience Pink Floyd´s DSOTM anew with the ATE. Thank you, KZ!


 
 Discovered a hidden talent in KZ ATE. Due to ATE's inability to produce really high frequencies, the scratches on my vinyls were more subdued. Good old analog high-cut made for better listening of old vinyls.


----------



## vegetaleb

Anyone tried the BT HDSE?
 What about the ED12?
 And what is the difference between ZS3 and ZS3s?
 It's a pitty KZ iems are now in the 20ish $ instead of 10ish.
  
 My long term mini review of the ATES:
 I used them 5 days a week for a 1 to 1h30 trekking each time, so sports use.
 Treble: It's exactly as it should, not too high in a way it will damage the SQ nor too low, vocals were perfect.
 Bass: A bit too high for my liking even though it was not a bad bass that eats from other channels.
 Soundstage: For a 10$ earphones, the soundstage is wide, not as wide as expensive Hifiman RE272, but wide enough to bring up a rich sound environment.
 Details: Also pleased by the level of details.
 Bad point: After 6 weeks of usage with moderate to high volume (using HTC 10) my ears began to have some health problem, like if I had a drop of water inside but I knew it wasn't and it was most probably my internal ear muscle that was too ''tired'' by the high bass of the ATES, it took me a whole week without any earphones in my ears to get rid of this ears problem.
 Conclusion: The ATES are the model of choice of sports thanks to its memory wire and relatively very nice SQ, but the high bass at high volumes can be (physically) bad for some.
 IF only I could get the same SQ/price but with a lower bass...


----------



## maxwelled

fonkepala said:


> Thanks, your views on them were partly what made me pull the trigger  Looking forward to more of your impressions on the ZS3 & ATR as you get more acquainted with them.




Will write up one once they're both burned in. Since I purchased 2 of each kind; ZST, ATR and ZS3. I'll also make comparisons on how they changed after burn-in before I give them away. :]


----------



## Ira Delphic

vegetaleb said:


> ...
> Bad point: After 6 weeks of usage with moderate to high volume (using HTC 10) my ears began to have some health problem, *like if I had a drop of water inside* but I knew it wasn't and it was most probably my internal ear muscle that was too ''tired'' by the high bass of the ATES, it took me a whole week without any earphones in my ears to get rid of this ears problem.
> Conclusion: The ATES are the model of choice of sports thanks to its memory wire and relatively very nice SQ, but the high bass at high volumes can be (physically) bad for some.
> IF only I could get the same SQ/price but with a lower bass...


 
  
 May have pushed the earwax inside of your ears. But be VERY careful - high volume + listening time = cumulative hearing damage. Look up "tinnitus" on head-fi if you don't believe me. Many of us are switching to earbuds when possible, for this among other reasons.
  
 I love the ATE (never used ATE-s) but those nozzles are long! I prefer the good old ED9 for comfort, and has similar sound signature.


----------



## SuperMAG

Man ok, after my first impressions on **** 4in1, here is an update, burnt it since yesterday with pink noise and white noise *1more app*. Don't think there is any difference by burning these.
  
 Ok, also did many tip rolling, and as i suspected, piston 2 tips are the best fit for me, especially the large one, its all about how deep and the best seal. The sponge tip also makes the best seal and best sound but its extremely uncomfortable, even piston 2, to get the best bass and sub bass i had to insert it deep, which is very uncomfortable, seems i am a bass head through and through. Also they are very heavy and gets dropped even more then my old pistons2. Perhaps i will have to move to earbuds side for comfortability.
  
 Before when i was using piston 2 i just put in my ears and not push it in but was getting soo much bass, and impact, that was just wow. i am buying piston 2 again. ok back to **** sound.
  
 The Sound is very clear and similar to piston 2 clarity, imaging and separation which is the best part about these headphones, the detail is also more then pistons.
  
 As i said the bass is still bit on the lower side for me, i just like more bass and impact cuz it just gets me excited and usually i listen to action songs and moves etc. Not saying bass is weak for normal people, it's quite good and similar to kz edr2 when checked side by side, perhaps kz edr2 is slightly more bass and sub bass, just slightly, but **** has better quality bass.
  
 Vocals, as i said i prefer thicker and smother vocals similar to monk plus or even the neutral yet sharper vocals of those ty hiz32, these are thin and sharp vocals it create headaches, the female songs are ok but male is too thin for me. I prefer smother signature.
  
 Treble, the treble is on the brighter side and has bit of sibilance but its ok, i can get used to it, but if you combine this with thin sharp vocals then it create headaches and ear injury for long use.
  
 Overall its very HD iems but not my style coming. well. I am looking in the market again.
  
 My preferences, Huge bass and impact, Smooth vocals, Extended Treble not very harsh though, Huge soundstage and perfect 3d imaging.
  
 How is Piston 2 compared to Tennmak pro and piano, are their bass similar quantity and impact and also are the vocals thick with density or thin like say edr2 and **** 4in1.
  
 Also if go higher in price say trinity vyrus, musicmaker tk12/13, do they match my preferences??


----------



## crabdog

supermag said:


> Man ok, after my first impressions on **** 4in1, here is an update, burnt it since yesterday with pink noise and white noise *1more app*. Don't think there is any difference by burning these.
> 
> Ok, also did many tip rolling, and as i suspected, piston 2 tips are the best fit for me, especially the large one, its all about how deep and the best seal. The sponge tip also makes the best seal and best sound but its extremely uncomfortable, even piston 2, to get the best bass and sub bass i had to insert it deep, which is very uncomfortable, seems i am a bass head through and through. Also they are very heavy and gets dropped even more then my old pistons2. Perhaps i will have to move to earbuds side for comfortability.
> 
> ...


 
 Vocals are on the thin side with Piano so you'd be better to get the Pro. The Pro has more forward and rich mids and is not as bright as the Piano.


----------



## bhazard

I feel like we can influence KZ in providing models that really suit our tastes. The hybrid is a good start, but it seems like it needs a lot of work.


----------



## SuperMAG

crabdog said:


> Vocals are on the thin side with Piano so you'd be better to get the Pro. The Pro has more forward and rich mids and is not as bright as the Piano.


 
 what about 3d imaging, also i heard soo many people saying they have QC issues with their left plug.
  
 Also how is tennmak pro compared to more expensive iems like trinity vyrus *60usd* and musicmaker *90usd*. is there huge difference between them and pro in terms of clarity, bass and imaging. and how are their vocals.
  
 I know that havi b3 pro 1 has the best 3d soundstage under 150usd but they need an amp i dont have money nor time or using time to have an amp all the time. 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## bendrexl

*ZS3, left earphone is weak / tinny?*
  
 Just got my ZS3's I ordered from eBay seller "simplenature" back on Sept 01 (darn shipping). The packaging, fit & finish were all very impressive for the price.  Unfortunately, the left earphone can't keep up with the right - I messed around with all the available tips (including some of my own that fit me well), but it still sounds unsealed. Very hollow, weak, and doesn't isolate nearly as well.
  
 I'd think this was due to a bad fit with my ear, but even reversing the phones and jamming them in the opposite ears to test doesn't change the output - the right phone sounds great, left not so much.
  
 Guess I should to return these and do a fresh order from gearbest?


----------



## smy1

bendrexl said:


> *ZS3, left earphone is weak / tinny?*
> 
> Just got my ZS3's I ordered from eBay seller "simplenature" back on Sept 01 (darn shipping). The packaging, fit & finish were all very impressive for the price.  Unfortunately, the left earphone can't keep up with the right - I messed around with all the available tips (including some of my own that fit me well), but it still sounds unsealed. Very hollow, weak, and doesn't isolate nearly as well.
> 
> ...




It could be the size of your ear canal. This happend with my ed7 i thought the left side was weaker then right but with the right tip it fixed the problem.


----------



## Ira Delphic

smy1 said:


> bendrexl said:
> 
> 
> > *ZS3, left earphone is weak / tinny?*
> ...


 
  
 I would use foam tips you have lying around just for testing purposes. Use a player and switch to MONO then change the balance L to R and back and see if a difference. Or switch the IEM - left and write - put the right in the left ear... Could be defective.


----------



## Mellowship

ED12 first impressions:
  
 Just got them, and already loathing them...
 I think they could be the worst KZs ever.
 The most excruciating driver flex I've ever heard.
 The build quality is awful: the casing lids seem badly attached and leave a open space that lets air pass.
 The "blue" right unit is actually purple. What??? 
 The bass is just toooooo much.
 The voices are tiny.
  
 Only good thing about them are the new KZ tips. And maybe the soundstage, which appears wide and deep.


----------



## astralmind

Well well! After reading no less than a couple hundred pages of this thread I bit the bullet and bought the zs3, ate and zst. Just received the zs3 and ate from gearbest through DHL having no patience... Paid more in duties and taxes than the kz price but whatever. 

Some background - my current goto iem are the RHA 750 which I love. Before I had the re400, re0, re zero, Phonak k112, shure e310 to name a few. 

Impressions so far are positive. I found the zs3 amazingly comfortable and they provided me a near perfect seal. Great sound stage fun fun sub bass however dark overly warm sound while still maintaining good mid and high. For 8$ a massive wow. 

The ate were less comfortable while still being ok but provided a much more balanced signature... They truly are close to awesomeness. Unfortunately to my personal taste they are still too bass oriented. 

Comfort of the zs3 and a less bassy ate ish sound at sub 10$ would be spectacular! What should I try next?

I also have the rock zircon on backorder. 

Thanks!


----------



## bendrexl

smy1 said:


> It could be the size of your ear canal. This happend with my ed7 i thought the left side was weaker then right but with the right tip it fixed the problem.


 


ira delphic said:


> I would use foam tips you have lying around just for testing purposes. Use a player and switch to MONO then change the balance L to R and back and see if a difference. Or switch the IEM - left and write - put the right in the left ear... Could be defective.


 
  
 All good advice, though I tried everything from different tips to switching players and ears with no change - the left driver just sounds unsealed.


----------



## 1clearhead

maxwelled said:


> Will write up one once they're both burned in. Since I purchased 2 of each kind; ZST, ATR and ZS3. I'll also make comparisons on how they changed after burn-in *before I give them away. :]*


 
  
 Great! Looking forward to your review! ....Now, you did mention "give them away". To who?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






bendrexl said:


> *ZS3, left earphone is weak / tinny?*
> 
> Just got my ZS3's I ordered from eBay seller "simplenature" back on Sept 01 (darn shipping). The packaging, fit & finish were all very impressive for the price.  Unfortunately, the left earphone can't keep up with the right - I messed around with all the available tips (including some of my own that fit me well), but it still sounds unsealed. Very hollow, weak, and doesn't isolate nearly as well.
> 
> ...


 
    Quote:


bendrexl said:


> All good advice, though I tried everything from different tips to switching players and ears with no change - the left driver just sounds unsealed.


 
  
 This sounds like the same QC issue I first experienced and reported several months ago on the ZS3 where the "inner tuning port" is bent, or out of place.
  
 YES!!! --> Exchange them!


----------



## maxwelled

1clearhead said:


> Great! Looking forward to your review! ....Now, you did mention "give them away". To who?


 
  
 Haha, will definitely write one up! At the moment I am burning all 3 of them and trying to get 120+ hours on the ZST, ATR and ZS3. It is to make sure that if there are any changes in burning them in, I'd be able to achieve that. I will be testing them out by doing a blind test (will get my girlfriend to mark one of them discreetly without me knowing) then putting them on a splitter and unburned on one ear and burned on the other then switching them out, also switching the sides just in case one side of the splitter is better than the other. Will be using my usual test by listening to a wide array of lossless music at my disposal, and as well as Yosi Horikawa's Vapor album. - I LOVE THIS ALBUM! If you don't know of it, go on Spotify and listen to it! Definitely one of the best ways for me to check for sound stage, imaging and the separation of the details. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for giving away, I'll be giving them away to anyone really. Maybe some of them on here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Edit: And just to add, I have done this same test before; to my collection of IEM's, earbuds and full size headphones and have come to a conclusion that IEM's and earbuds do benefit from burning them in but full size headphones only at times benefit from them, and or have little to no effect. I tend to always buy 2 of everything and then do this and then end up either keeping a spare (if I LOVE them), reselling the newer one or giving them away as gifts. At the moment I'm still researching for an end-game headphones and IEM's as I won't be able to buy 2 each LOL.


----------



## Ruben123

Be sure to test them too before burn in. There might be small differences ootb already


----------



## maxwelled

ruben123 said:


> Be sure to test them too before burn in. There might be small differences ootb already


 
 Yeah, I've checked them for defects by plugging them in and having a quick listen but not the 2nd ZS3 - will definitely check now that you've reminded me!


----------



## Vidal

I got my first pair of ZSTs today and having read Clearhead's review I feared the worst. I have to say I'm quite enjoying them, I think it's the thumping bass that's doing it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

And that's why we wait for more than one opinion...


----------



## Majin

b9scrambler said:


> And that's why we wait for more than one opinion...


 
  
 In this case it's an affordable IEM but the more expensive ones are hard to judge by multiple people.


----------



## B9Scrambler

majin said:


> In this case it's an affordable IEM but the more expensive ones are hard to judge by multiple people.


 
  
 Not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate?


----------



## Majin

b9scrambler said:


> Not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate?


 
  
 That a lot of people are buying the ZST cause of the low price so we will get a lot of reviews while the DT86 was quite expensive and we only got 2 reviews out of it. One saying the DT86 is utterly crap and not worth the price while the other says it has a clear sound and good value.


----------



## B9Scrambler

majin said:


> That a lot of people are buying the ZST cause of the low price so we will get a lot of reviews while the DT86 was quite expensive and we only got 2 reviews out of it. One saying the DT86 is utterly crap and not worth the price while the other says it has a clear sound and good value.


 
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Aida

ira delphic said:


> I would use foam tips you have lying around just for testing purposes. Use a player and switch to MONO then change the balance L to R and back and see if a difference. Or switch the IEM - left and write - put the right in the left ear... Could be defective.


 
 Checking my source like this helped me with a similar problem. I felt stupid but it was that the balance on the sound output on my mac was skewed to the right. Just something to check.


----------



## Vidal

astralmind said:


> The ate were less comfortable while still being ok but provided a much more balanced signature... They truly are close to awesomeness. Unfortunately to my personal taste they are still too bass oriented.
> 
> Comfort of the zs3 and a less bassy ate ish sound at sub 10$ would be spectacular! What should I try next?
> 
> I also have the rock zircon on backorder.


 
  
 If you found the ATE too bassy then I think the Rock Zircon won't be to your taste. Less bass than a ATE and sub $10? Only a few spring to mind, VE Monks + (earbud), KZ EDR2, Tennmak Porcelain - you may also be able to get a pair of the ubiquitous ED9 around the $10 mark, these can be debassed with the brass nozzle
  
 VE Monks are Aliexpress the rest are available from GB


----------



## Podster

muzo2 said:


> Anyone has both TFZ series and KZ ZST? is shell same size?


 

 Hey MuZ, I'll let you know as soon as my ZST's arrive


----------



## Redcarmoose

haiku said:


> The KZ ATE is a very addictive iem. Man......!  :eek:
> I let the Remax RM-S1 burn in atm. Let´s see how it sounds compared to the ATE.




I have found the Remax RM-S1 to be a little less warm than KZ -ATE. The S1 bass goes deep and delivers detail in the bass areas. Where the ATE is more like a 1960s tube Hi/Fi with that lush romance. The S1 is more like home theatre in the 2000s. Still the S1 becomes truly amazing after burn in of about 100hrs. 

Is your S1 the new paint-less edition or the silver ones?


----------



## Podster

redcarmoose said:


> I have found the Remax RM-S1 to be a little less warm than KZ -ATE. The S1 bass goes deep and delivers detail in the bass areas. Where the ATE is more like a 1960s tube Hi/Fi with that lush romance. The S1 is more like home theatre in the 2000s. Still the S1 becomes truly amazing after burn in of about 100hrs.
> 
> Is your S1 the new paint-less edition or the silver ones?


 

 Hey Red, have you tried the new ATR's? You comparing off an iDevice? Just asking as I still feel the ATR is the final and best rendition of the ATE series
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep in mind my ears are very old but I seem to concur with a lot of your findings


----------



## r_aquarii

what is the foam tip that is compatible with zst? the silicon tip is hurting my ear


----------



## Vidal

r_aquarii said:


> what is the foam tip that is compatible with zst? the silicon tip is hurting my ear


 
  
 I'm using the HCK ones, both the rounded and normal ones work - the larger diameter ones.


----------



## hellfire8888

Hot from Oven...


----------



## haiku

redcarmoose said:


> I have found the Remax RM-S1 to be a little less warm than KZ -ATE. The S1 bass goes deep and delivers detail in the bass areas. Where the ATE is more like a 1960s tube Hi/Fi with that lush romance.
> Is your S1 the new paint-less edition or the silver ones?


 
  
 Yeah, I love the "tubey" sound of the ATE, but also ATE S. Especially listening to old english prog rock (Caravan, Camel, Soft Machine, National Health and the like) really lets you drift into mystery lands of sound, whereas with other earphones the music often becomes exhausting. It still baffles me, how such high end sound quality can be offered for such a small amount of money. On the other hand, when you read the statement on their website, you realize the guys from KZ are on a mission. They have my deepest respect.
  
 Unfortunately, I had to send the remax back, because of channel imbalances.


----------



## astralmind

vidal said:


> If you found the ATE too bassy then I think the Rock Zircon won't be to your taste. Less bass than a ATE and sub $10? Only a few spring to mind, VE Monks + (earbud), KZ EDR2, Tennmak Porcelain - you may also be able to get a pair of the ubiquitous ED9 around the $10 mark, these can be debassed with the brass nozzle
> 
> VE Monks are Aliexpress the rest are available from GB


 
 Haha well for a few that's quite the list! Between the GB options KZ EDR2, Tennmark Porcelain or KZ ED9, which one would be your favorite ? I'm starting to collect iems, fun but not exactly useful


----------



## Vidal

I really like the Porcelain partly because they're a little offbeat inasmuch they're the forgotten Tennmak. If you want to tread the usual path then the ED9 is probably the one to go for as it's effectively two earphones in one as it has interchangeable filters.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> Haha, will definitely write one up! At the moment I am burning all 3 of them and trying to get 120+ hours on the ZST, ATR and ZS3. It is to make sure that if there are any changes in burning them in, I'd be able to achieve that. I will be testing them out by doing a blind test (will get my girlfriend to mark one of them discreetly without me knowing) then putting them on a splitter and unburned on one ear and burned on the other then switching them out, also switching the sides just in case one side of the splitter is better than the other. Will be using my usual test by listening to a wide array of lossless music at my disposal, and as well as Yosi Horikawa's Vapor album. - I LOVE THIS ALBUM! If you don't know of it, go on Spotify and listen to it! Definitely one of the best ways for me to check for sound stage, imaging and the separation of the details.


 
  
 Thanks for recommending that album. I'm listening to it right now. I like it...similar to Pink Floyd but more modern if that's even possible.


----------



## maxwelled

r_aquarii said:


> what is the foam tip that is compatible with zst? the silicon tip is hurting my ear


 

 The stock silicone tips that comes with it hurts but if you have some better ones like the JVC spiral dots, they work well and are comfortable. I like the foam type ones also but it makes it really difficult to easily put on and take off iems that are  lol. I end up looking like a d-bag walking around with them on at work because of the hassle of taking them off and putting them on. And I also noticed that the foam tips made the bass more boomy for me (I don't know if it's the shape of my ear canals, but that's the effect that I get 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), so if you're aiming to make them darker then definitely use the foam tips.
  
  


fonkepala said:


> Thanks for recommending that album. I'm listening to it right now. I like it...similar to Pink Floyd but more modern if that's even possible.


 
  
 Glad you like it! Bump and Wandering is amazing to listen to with headphones or iems that have amazing sound stage and imaging. You can close your eyes and it puts you there, basking in the music and tones coming from all around you, like you are the center of their performance. Quite an experience, it's what makes me addicted to this audiophile experience haha.


----------



## r_aquarii

anyone try KZ foam tip?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Original-3-Pair-Black-Noise-Isolating-Comfortble-Memory-Foam-Ear-Tips-Ear-Pads-for-Headphones/32586951610.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

r_aquarii said:


> anyone try KZ foam tip?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Original-3-Pair-Black-Noise-Isolating-Comfortble-Memory-Foam-Ear-Tips-Ear-Pads-for-Headphones/32586951610.html


 
  
 I run those on quite a few of my bright earphones. They're very similar to the ones JVC supplied with the FX40. Somewhat stiff, not overly porous. They're a nice go-between to me for silicone tips and Comply style foams. Depending on the earphone, you can insert them without compressing them first. They're my preferred tip for the Advanced M4 for that reason.


----------



## maxwelled

r_aquarii said:


> anyone try KZ foam tip?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Original-3-Pair-Black-Noise-Isolating-Comfortble-Memory-Foam-Ear-Tips-Ear-Pads-for-Headphones/32586951610.html


 
  
 I have them, they're more of a hybrid tip - hard to explain but I'll try: it's a rubber foam like consistency (so it's a bit harder than the memory foam, and you can feel some pressure once they are in place but still much less than typical silicone tips) and it has that has a silicone outer skin. Edit: They also don't have that 'rubber sleeve' inside the normal porous memory foam tips. I generally prefer the more memory foam type (that have open pores - looks like a sponge due to it's slower rebound and once inserted you won't feel them) but they work quite well also because they will last longer than the memory foam type. The silicone acts as a barrier against dirt and earwax, so you can easily clean them by wiping them with a wet cloth. Over time they will also start to lose their elasticity and get hard, as is the case with the memory foam type.


----------



## KipNix

bendrexl said:


> *ZS3, left earphone is weak / tinny?*
> 
> Unfortunately, the left earphone can't keep up with the right -


 
 I just received my ZS3 today (22 days Switzerland Post to Canada), and although one side didn't sound hollow, something was not right.
 Off I went to Audiocheck to do some investigating, and sure enough, the polarity test showed the left one had the cable plugged in wrong. Who the heck...oh I did that!
 I fixed it and have been enjoying these top notch IEMs ever since. Head over there and test yours.
 I'll review these when I take a breath from this sweet music.


----------



## toddy0191

kipnix said:


> I just received my ZS3 today (22 days Switzerland Post to Canada), and although one side didn't sound hollow, something was not right.
> Off I went to Audiocheck to do some investigating, and sure enough, the polarity test showed the left one had the cable plugged in wrong. Who the heck...oh I did that!
> I fixed it and have been enjoying these top notch IEMs ever since. Head over there and test yours.
> I'll review these when I take a breath from this sweet music.




I did the same after one of the sides became disconnected and started to question my early positive impressions.

After i connected it the correct way they sounded great again.

Definitely singing to watch our for.


----------



## sfogar

kipnix said:


> I just received my ZS3 today (22 days Switzerland Post to Canada), and although one side didn't sound hollow, something was not right.
> Off I went to Audiocheck to do some investigating, and sure enough, the polarity test showed the left one had the cable plugged in wrong. Who the heck...oh I did that!
> I fixed it and have been enjoying these top notch IEMs ever since. Head over there and test yours.
> I'll review these when I take a breath from this sweet music.


 
 HI, where did you buy from your ZS3 ? Gearbest ?


----------



## rockingthearies

sfogar said:


> HI, where did you buy from your ZS3 ? Gearbest ?




http://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html Here you go


----------



## Redcarmoose

podster said:


> Hey Red, have you tried the new ATR's? You comparing off an iDevice? Just asking as I still feel the ATR is the final and best rendition of the ATE series:wink_face: Keep in mind my ears are very old but I seem to concur with a lot of your findings:bigsmile_face:




I'll have to order the ATRs, good to know I'm not off my lid on the sound signature impressions. Tell you the truth, I like the QKZ W1 Pro much better now than the ATE. I spent a while today and it's so amazing how most tips don't make the W1 Pros sound correct. But now they are my favorite with the right tips. The sound is more personal, and the bass is both forward and tight and low. Today they were 2X better than the ATEs to my ears. They are smaller so they fit better too. I have just fallen in love with these $8 IEMs with an aftermarket cable?
I am using a 5th generation IPod and some IPads and an iPhone as well as an old Galaxy Tablet. The iPod goes great with the QKZ W1 Pro. 

Also it's crazy but I find the QKZ W1 Pro to be the most efficient IEM I have ever heard. 1/4 louder than the ATE at the same volume???


----------



## pashhtk27

redcarmoose said:


> I'll have to order the ATRs, good to know I'm not off my lid on the sound signature impressions. Tell you the truth, I like the QKZ W1 Pro much better now than the ATE. I spent a while today and it's so amazing how most tips don't make the W1 Pros sound correct. But now they are my favorite with the right tips. The sound is more personal, and the bass is both forward and tight and low. Today they were 2X better than the ATEs to my ears. They are smaller so they fit better too. I have just fallen in love with these $8 IEMs with an aftermarket cable?
> I am using a 5th generation IPod and some IPads and an iPhone as well as an old Galaxy Tablet. The iPod goes great with the QKZ W1 Pro.
> 
> Also it's crazy but I find the QKZ W1 Pro to be the most efficient IEM I have ever heard. 1/4 louder than the ATE at the same volume???




A question: W1 pro have mmcx connectors, or do they have connectors of some other kind? I was thinking of getting them for the cable, coz if it is mmcx then it can help with future buys too.


----------



## Majin

pashhtk27 said:


> A question: W1 pro have mmcx connectors, or do they have connectors of some other kind? I was thinking of getting them for the cable, coz if it is mmcx then it can help with future buys too.


 
  
 It doesn't look like mmcx connectors. The pin is too small.


----------



## B9Scrambler

pashhtk27 said:


> A question: W1 pro have mmcx connectors, or do they have connectors of some other kind? I was thinking of getting them for the cable, coz if it is mmcx then it can help with future buys too.







majin said:


> It doesn't look like mmcx connectors. The pin is too small.




They use DC connectors, not mmcx.


----------



## astralmind

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for recommending that album. I'm listening to it right now. I like it...similar to Pink Floyd but more modern if that's even possible.




Wow thanks for the recommendation. Starr's bass sounded so enveloping with the ate, great evaluation track.


----------



## Redcarmoose

pashhtk27 said:


> A question: W1 pro have mmcx connectors, or do they have connectors of some other kind? I was thinking of getting them for the cable, coz if it is mmcx then it can help with future buys too.




It's not the MMCX but the single pin, non screw type. Here is a photo. Really though if you want some rad cables the Basic ie200HD comes with two sets of cables, one for a phone and one not. They are slightly better than the W1Pro cable in that the around ear wires are slightly stronger. Still they almost look exactly the same?

Edit: 
Nice to know they are called DC connectors.


----------



## sfogar

rockingthearies said:


> http://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html Here you go


 
  
 Many thanks, like mine...
  
 I received them some minutes ago.
  
 First impression: a lack of mids, how many hours of burn-in do they need ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

redcarmoose said:


> Edit:
> Nice to know they are called DC connectors.


 
  
 I just found out a couple days ago. Can't recall where I saw it though. Need to go back and update my review at some point.


----------



## Ruben123

sfogar said:


> Many thanks, like mine...
> 
> I received them some minutes ago.
> 
> First impression: a lack of mids, how many hours of burn-in do they need ?


 

 Try other tips. They certainly dont lack mids.


----------



## Ruben123

How is exactly the QKZ W1 compared to the ZS3 at both $8?


----------



## Majin

b9scrambler said:


> I just found out a couple days ago. Can't recall where I saw it though. Need to go back and update my review at some point.


 
  
 Didn't someone say that in the Chinese thread or did you say it?


----------



## B9Scrambler

majin said:


> Didn't someone say that in the Chinese thread or did you say it?


 
  
 That was me


----------



## TreL

I'm debating between the KZ ED9 and the Rock Zircon, and don't know what to pick. I'm completely new to all this audiophile stuff so not very sure what I'm talking about. I listen to a lot of hip hop so I want decent bass, and clarity in mids and highs. I also hate loud highs which pierce your ears. I'm also considering the Xiaomi Hybrids, if they are good and worth the extra $5-6


----------



## crabdog

trel said:


> I'm debating between the KZ ED9 and the Rock Zircon, and don't know what to pick. I'm completely new to all this audiophile stuff so not very sure what I'm talking about. I listen to a lot of hip hop so I want decent bass, and clarity in mids and highs. I also hate loud highs which pierce your ears. I'm also considering the Xiaomi Hybrids, if they are good and worth the extra $5-6


 
 ED9 is good for hip-hop with gold filters. Zircon is a bass monster


----------



## Majin

trel said:


> I'm debating between the KZ ED9 and the Rock Zircon, and don't know what to pick. I'm completely new to all this audiophile stuff so not very sure what I'm talking about. I listen to a lot of hip hop so I want decent bass, and clarity in mids and highs. I also hate loud highs which pierce your ears. I'm also considering the Xiaomi Hybrids, if they are good and worth the extra $5-6


 
  
 The good thing about the KZ ED9 is that you get 2 filters so you can change them and get 2 different sound signatures.


----------



## TreL

Majin good point, I will probably get those then. Is GearBest a good place to get them from or Ali?


----------



## Majin

trel said:


> @Majin good point, I will probably get those then. Is GearBest a good place to get them from or Ali?


 
  
 Both are fine Ali is a bit cheaper atm.


----------



## Redcarmoose

ruben123 said:


> How is exactly the QKZ W1 compared to the ZS3 at both $8?




Don't know as I only have the QKZ W1 Pro, though I think at least one or two others on this thread have both. One word of warning, out of a box of tips only one set works to get the bass. They have great bass but are super tip dependent. So much so that maybe some will never get a fit without a good selection of tips extra on hand.

Most of the time they come off as bass shy, till you find the right tips, then they awake.


----------



## pashhtk27

Thanks for clarifying about the connectors on W1 pro, everyone. 

Another question: How do Ed7 and Atr compare against each other?


----------



## chaiyuta

Just received KZ ZST today. Throw a stock cable and KZ tips away. HaHa. Using JVC sprial dot instead and pairing with a best value upgraded cable, Brimar Quantum SXC, in short, it is not bad. Anyway, female vocal especially J-POP or J-Anime songs is too twang for me. However male vocal song is quite good. I will try to pair with a pure copper cable likes Effect Audio Ares2+. Hope twang sound will disappear.
  
 P.S. Overall sound of KZ ZST is better than KZ HDSE indeed. More details. Better clarity. Securely fitted. For 14-15$ it's really OK. Comparing with TFZ Series 1s, I think this one is better.
  
 P.S. 2 Please try KZ ZST with any high-end upgraded cable from your nearby shop. I suggest you try the best of product line of each cable companies first. I think some sound that is not suitable with your preference could be solved.


----------



## Hisoundfi

I am receiving my ZST today. 

Looking forward to sharing some initial impressions. 

Cheers friends


----------



## haiku

I get the ZS3 tomorrow. Let´s see if the ATE + ATE S can hold their ground against i!


----------



## Hisoundfi

Muahahahahaha! 

How much do the ZST cost? 

This is ridiculous! Bass forward fun signature with nice detail from the armature. They rock for the price. Removeable cable, awesome tips, and the fit.... 

This is incredible guys. This is exactly why I continue to buy KZ!


----------



## Hisoundfi

They're flat out bassy. Not for those looking for balanced or linear sound.


----------



## haiku

hisoundfi said:


> They're flat out bassy. Not for those looking for balanced or linear sound.


 

 More bassy than ATE?


----------



## chaiyuta

For Person who want mid-forward plus, please try a high quality silver-plated cable. For Person who want more nice details in low frequency, please try a high quality pure copper cable. For perfectionist, please try a silver gold-plated cable. Haha.


----------



## James Freeman

@chaiyuta are you talking seriously? I hope not because the cable has absolutely nothing to do with sound.
  
 Please go audio-phool people somewhere else.


----------



## Hisoundfi

haiku said:


> More bassy than ATE?


I can't say without comparing them side by side. 

They are similar tunings (going off memory) with the ZST having more detail. 

Seriously guys, if you don't mind some big bass these are pretty awesome. The tuning of the armature is great.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hisoundfi said:


> I can't say without comparing them side by side.
> 
> They are similar tunings (going off memory) with the ZST having more detail.
> 
> Seriously guys, if you don't mind some big bass these are pretty awesome. The tuning of the armature is great.


 
  
 Good to hear. Next month I'll be ordering mine. In the meantime, I await the arrival of the ED12 to see how they compare with the ZS3 and ATR.


----------



## Podster

hisoundfi said:


> I can't say without comparing them side by side.
> 
> They are similar tunings (going off memory) with the ZST having more detail.
> 
> Seriously guys, if you don't mind some big bass these are pretty awesome. The tuning of the armature is great.


 

 Now your killing me! Slow boat wait is really what's killing me but they always come in and the pain wains
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Noticed a page or so back someone mentioned they sound better than TFZ Series 1 which is what I want to compare them too as the shells are very close. I would expect the ZST to have better detail than the single DD ATE but then again I consider the ATR the pinnacle of the ATE series anyway
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 IMHO you said the key word for KZ budget iem  which is "FUN"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For your buying dollar KZ offers a lot of fun.


----------



## rubick

Really great for their price!


----------



## Redcarmoose

pashhtk27 said:


> A question: W1 pro have mmcx connectors, or do they have connectors of some other kind? I was thinking of getting them for the cable, coz if it is mmcx then it can help with future buys too.




https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/32707477882.html?src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albcp=653478879&albag=34653160498&slnk=&trgt=68416666751&plac=&crea=en32707477882&netw=g&device=m&mtctp=&gclid=CMixo9Lsss8CFU6Sfgodl4sIvQ&

This would be the aftermarket $11.24 MMCX, I would get. Don't have a history with this exact cable but a couple just like it and love the material. The cable is very close to what you get with the QKZ W1 Pro only MMCX.

Another low cost way is if you could find a Basic ie300HD as for $25, they come with two MMCX cables.


----------



## jmwreck

rubick said:


> Really great for their price!


 
  
 I have an ED12 and my ZST is on its way. Have you done any comparison for both? I've found that my ED12 is lifeless on my Benjie S5 and Topping NX1 amp, but it shines thru my Sony bluetooth SBH20 with my Xperia Z2 as a player (poweramp).


----------



## chaiyuta

James Freeman : I am sorry if my comment make you feel too much hard-sale. It's just suggestion. According to you stated that "the cable has absolutely nothing to do with sound.", It's OK if you don't feel any difference on material-changed cable. You can save up your money. Since I just saw many comments here give disappointed impression on KZ ZST which it has a custom connector (2-pin). I suggest those persons to try something out. 
 Anyway your last statement " Please go audio-phool people somewhere else. ", I am a person who own KZ products and this thread is not yours. I've still thought that I have a right to stick on this thread. Please kindly understand.


----------



## xuan87

Let me give an update for my ZS3 shipment from Gearbest:
  
 Bought and paid on Sept 14
  
 Items only shipped out on Sept 23
  
 Items received on Sept 28
  
 For me, the delay is between payment and shipping out of the package, no idea why it took them so long.


----------



## rockingthearies

xuan87 said:


> Let me give an update for my ZS3 shipment from Gearbest:
> 
> Bought and paid on Sept 14
> 
> ...




Did you pay for express shipping?


----------



## xuan87

rockingthearies said:


> Did you pay for express shipping?


 
  
 No, I went with the quickest shipping option.
  
 The express shipping should only cut down on the delivery time right? Not on the time it takes for them to get the package out of the door.


----------



## rubick

jmwreck said:


> I have an ED12 and my ZST is on its way. Have you done any comparison for both? I've found that my ED12 is lifeless on my Benjie S5 and Topping NX1 amp, but it shines thru my Sony bluetooth SBH20 with my Xperia Z2 as a player (poweramp).




Ootb the ED12 sounded brighter and more open. Didnt have much chance to listen to ED12 yet. Now trying to burn in zst


----------



## Redcarmoose

james freeman said:


> @chaiyuta
> are you talking seriously? I hope not because the cable has absolutely nothing to do with sound.
> 
> 
> Please go audio-phool people somewhere else.




Cables! The debate that will never end.


----------



## sfogar

xuan87 said:


> Let me give an update for my ZS3 shipment from Gearbest:
> 
> Bought and paid on Sept 14
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi.
  
 the same for me ...
  
 But this was indicated in the web page...


----------



## xuan87

sfogar said:


> Hi.
> 
> the same for me ...
> 
> But this was indicated in the web page...


 
  
 Hmm the webpage indicated 2-5 working days for my case, that's fair I guess.
  
 Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, I wasn't in a hurry to get them as I already have a pair. Just wanted to let others know what to expect if they order from Gearbest.
  
 If it's true that the seller test every pair before sending it out, that is fantastic before my experience with KZ's QC has been less than stellar...


----------



## rockingthearies

xuan87 said:


> No, I went with the quickest shipping option.
> 
> The express shipping should only cut down on the delivery time right? Not on the time it takes for them to get the package out of the door.




Yeap express shipping only makes it arrive at your house quicker was wondering why you got your ZS3s so quick. Bought mine on 3rd Sept paid for normal shipping still have not arrive yet


----------



## thmarci

Hey guys! I received the ZST, but I really don't like it. It's grainy in the mids, and... I don't know, the highs and the lows sound sooo separated. Only used for 12 hours, but as I read it, it's not gonna change much after 100 hours. 
Does anybody have the same impression about it? 
I own a ZN1, HDS1 and a Rock Zircon. A ZS3 on the way too.


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> That was me




Thought it was me when carmoose recommending someone the same mmcx cables in the place of dc connector ones.......think it was @ chinese/asian thread last month? .


----------



## Vidal

thmarci said:


> Hey guys! I received the ZST, but I really don't like it. It's grainy in the mids, and... I don't know, the highs and the lows sound sooo separated. Only used for 12 hours, but as I read it, it's not gonna change much after 100 hours.


 
  
 I like mine, what particular track are you listening to with the issues? I'll see if mine do the same.


----------



## 1clearhead

thmarci said:


> Hey guys! *I received the ZST, but I really don't like it. It's grainy in the mids*, and... I don't know, the highs and the lows sound sooo separated. Only used for 12 hours, but as I read it, it's not gonna change much after 100 hours.
> Does anybody have the same impression about it?
> I own a ZN1, HDS1 and a Rock Zircon. A ZS3 on the way too.


 
  
 You're not alone.....same here!
  
 I was hoping for changes after burning them in over 100 hours, but not much has changed. I put them in the same category as the Xiaomi hybrids, completely muddy plus on the grainy side. Many of the other KZ's are better buys than this one. Well? At least they get to learn from their first attempt just like the Xiaomi company did.


----------



## mochill

Give them more burn in , i just ordered mine yesterday with the kz silver plated upgrade cable


----------



## smy1

Anybody found any upgraded zs3 cables?


----------



## akhil17kr

Hey fellas , I've been using soundmagic ES18 earphones for more than 1.5 years ,now want to upgrade to some better ones . Please suggest a below $9 KZ earphone as good or better than Soundmagic ES18 .
 Friend has this KZ earphone which looks edr1/edr2/KZ SE.(All looks same) (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-EDR...)
 but it is not as good as soundmagic ES18 in terms of comfort and sound clarity. have hard time adjusting it , becomes very irritating to wear and does not fit properly in my ear with all sizes of eartips provided on the other hand soundmagic es18 medium size one's perfectly fit easily tight without any problem.
 Top priority is Very good comfort , very good Clarity and good bass as i listen a lot to EDM’s .
  
 I WANT TO BUY ONLY FROM ALIEXPRESS as i have some discount coupon on it.
 There are so many sellers of KZ and so many models that i actually don’t know which is reliable one and can go on for at least 1.5 years and provide onpar performance to ES18 with as good as comfort wear , better sound clarity and on par sound quality.
  
 I'll using earphones on Mi Redmi note 3 with viper4android and on Laptop .


----------



## Ira Delphic

akhil17kr said:


> Hey fellas , I've been using soundmagic ES18 earphones for more than 1.5 years ,now want to upgrade to some better ones . Please suggest a below $9 KZ earphone as good or better than Soundmagic ES18 .
> Friend has this KZ earphone which looks edr1/edr2/KZ SE.(All looks same) (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-EDR...)
> but it is not as good as soundmagic ES18 in terms of comfort and sound clarity. have hard time adjusting it , becomes very irritating to wear and does not fit properly in my ear with all sizes of eartips provided on the other hand soundmagic es18 medium size one's perfectly fit easily tight without any problem.
> Top priority is Very good comfort , very good Clarity and good bass as i listen a lot to EDM’s .
> ...


 
  
 I like the ED9. Metal so not super light weight but a very nice IEM. Similar sound to the ATE but for me more comfortable.


----------



## dilidani

Hello guys! Just received my ED7, the smaller one. The nozzle is so tiny, i mean i cant put wide bore tips on it, tho they would work better on them as i guess. Anyone having the version with the bigger housing - does it have a standard nozzle width?
 Anyways, for 4-5 usds its not bad, but it could be better.  I guess it would need a proper tip and burn-in..


----------



## akhil17kr

ira delphic said:


> I like the ED9. Metal so not super light weight but a very nice IEM. Similar sound to the ATE but for me more comfortable.


 

 How's ED9 compared to ES18 , it's $10-12 though . below $9 would be nice. my only requirement is it should be better than ES18 and has crisp sound clarity with very comfortable in ears , tught and not loose or something because if comfort is not good there is no advantage of any earphone doesn't matter it cost cheap or expensive.


----------



## toddy0191

akhil17kr said:


> How's ED9 compared to ES18 , it's $10-12 though . below $9 would be nice. my only requirement is it should be better than ES18 and has crisp sound clarity with very comfortable in ears , tught and not loose or something because if comfort is not good there is no advantage of any earphone doesn't matter it cost cheap or expensive.




I know you said ONLY Aliexpress. But the zs3 are only $8.38 at gearbest.

I have the es18s and they are better IMO.

http://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## Mellowship

akhil17kr said:


> How's ED9 compared to ES18 , it's $10-12 though . below $9 would be nice. my only requirement is it should be better than ES18 and has crisp sound clarity with very comfortable in ears , tught and not loose or something because if comfort is not good there is no advantage of any earphone doesn't matter it cost cheap or expensive.


 
  
 ES18 are great. They are nor better or worse than most KZs. They just have a different sound signature. 
  
 ED9, ATE and ZS3 seem to be the way. For that "wow" factor, great bass and comfort, I would choose ZS3. For clarity and ability to change sound signature, you have ED9. For smoothness and nice non-fatiguing sound, the ATE.


----------



## kiler

If he mentions crisp sound quality might be worth going for the ED9, since they might have more of a V shape than the other KZ's. For example, the ATE might sound too warm for his ears.


----------



## Hisoundfi

Okay fellas, spent some more time with the ZST. Graphs aren't the whole story, but they say a lot. Here's what I got:
  

 This measurement was taken with my Vibro Veritas which is NOT a industry standard measuring device but should give you an idea of how the the ZST sounds. This device does have a tendency to roll off a bit at higher frequencies. After measuring many earphones, I feel as though I can put into words what I'm seeing so you all can understand. 
  
 As expected there's a fair amount of bass presence, and mildly boosted upper mid-range to keep them from sounding overly dark. I am hearing a bass forward sound with good bite on vocals. Where the ZST misses out on competing with top of the line hybrids is in overall refinement and treble extension. Don't let that deter you from considering them. When I say this I'm referring to the stuff that costs many times more. I'd say it competes with many/most of the sub $100 dollar hybrids available today. 
  
 The treble has somewhat natural sense without a lot of extension and detail. However, for the price I think they are insanely good. The damn cable and tips are worth the price of admission! I have been listening to them on and off for the last two days and can confidently say that no one is going to necessarily be disappointed in their purchase. The fit is great, the Cable is nice, and the tips are really, really good IMHO. The sound is a good first toe in the hybrid water for KZ. 
  
 I would love to see KZ make an improved version with two balanced armatures, adding a little more refinement, detail and control of all frequencies. I'd also like to see a little more neutrality to their tuning, meaning less exaggeration in their more forward frequencies. The response curve is good for the most part, but a little too emphasized at the mid-bass and upper mid-range tones. Tone this down a little more, and add a bit of treble extension without going overboard, and we will have the new giant slayer. 
  
 Cheers everyone.


----------



## chaiyuta

Does anyone can tell me which frequence range is female vocal and which frequency range is male vocal?


----------



## jmwreck

chaiyuta said:


> Does anyone can tell me which frequence range is female vocal and which frequency range is male vocal?


----------



## RazorOmega

For EDM and Dubstep, should I get the ED, KS or ATE range of IEM? What are the differences between them.


----------



## bobybibbob

Hi all..
Wanna ask for kz iem recommendation that has wide soundstage, punchy bass and clear high without sibilance.
I play it without amp,play on phone and laptop.
I have a phrodi m201, i think their soundstage not wide enough and hate the sibilance.
Thanks..


----------



## B9Scrambler

bobybibbob Go for the ATR and you win.


----------



## akhil17kr

mellowship said:


> ES18 are great. They are nor better or worse than most KZs. They just have a different sound signature.
> 
> ED9, ATE and ZS3 seem to be the way. For that "wow" factor, great bass and comfort, I would choose ZS3. For clarity and ability to change sound signature, you have ED9. For smoothness and nice non-fatiguing sound, the ATE.



So which one should i go for, just think i want a upgrade over ES18 like better version of it appropriate for mostly for EDM kind of music . If es18 had V sound signature please suggest similar in KZ and definitely KZ will be my first KZ  , so want something reliable. 
How's other like
1) New Arrival KZ Earphone In-Ear Auriculares Original KZ ED10 Ear Earphones Stereo Headset HiFi Earbuds Without Microphone
 http://s.aliexpress.com/6Z7vMnyI 
(from AliExpress Android)
2) KZ ATR HD9
 http://s.aliexpress.com/mmmMb6BJ 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## akhil17kr

kiler said:


> If he mentions crisp sound quality might be worth going for the ED9, since they might have more of a V shape than the other KZ's. For example, the ATE might sound too warm for his ears.



ED9 is actually kind of heavy considering it won't be comfortable during laying down on bed at night sleeping


----------



## Comebackboy

Finally got my KZ ZSTs today. After reading all the mixed reviews, I really wasn't sure what to expect. Turned out more than alright! Really enjoying it right now (with the silver cable) and really happy with my buy considering the price. 
  
 Not sure which tips to use though, I have the stock tips, the extra tips that came with the cable and some foam tips. Any suggestions? 
  
 Also, how long should I burn in for? Some reviews had 20+hours some had more, some even said 150h+


----------



## crabdog

comebackboy said:


> Finally got my KZ ZSTs today. After reading all the mixed reviews, I really wasn't sure what to expect. Turned out more than alright! Really enjoying it right now (with the silver cable) and really happy with my buy considering the price.
> 
> Not sure which tips to use though, I have the stock tips, the extra tips that came with the cable and some foam tips. Any suggestions?
> 
> Also, how long should I burn in for? Some reviews had 20+hours some had more, some even said 150h+


 
 If you're enjoying them now just do the burn in your ears.


----------



## rockingthearies

Do you all burn in with pink noise all tje various noises and frequency sweeps or just burn in with music?


----------



## haiku

I wouldn´t want to live without the way the KZ ATE (S) present the sub octaves any longer. Just bought the reissue of ELP´s "Brain Salad Surgery" in 24/96. That album has soooo much sub bass!! Listening right now with the ATE S. Whooaa....!


----------



## akhil17kr

Guys please suggest fast as the aliexpress discount coupon is going to expire in about 5-6 hours.


----------



## chaiyuta

After burn-in 20+ hours, The twang femal vocal sound has being decreased. Today I try JOOX app + Audioquest Dragonfly Black 1.5, the sound from ZST is very good. But when using Audio Dragonfly Red (last version), the sound is regressed maybe this one is matching with Full-size headphone instead.


----------



## Comebackboy

Anyone know what EQ is good to bring out the vocals and clarity for ZST? Been playing with the EQ, can't seem to find the right mix


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> @bobybibbob Go for the ATR and you win.


 
  
@B9Scrambler, which one is best with silicone tips for clarity - ATE or ATR?
  
 I might want to purchase the ATR.


----------



## CoiL

razoromega said:


> For EDM and Dubstep, should I get the ED, KS or ATE range of IEM? What are the differences between them.


 
 Yinjw "IE800" wooden version.


----------



## kiler

Buy both and tell us which one is better ;D haha


----------



## Hisoundfi

comebackboy said:


> Anyone know what EQ is good to bring out the vocals and clarity for ZST? Been playing with the EQ, can't seem to find the right mix


 
 I can't seem to find an EQ adjustment that improves the sound of the ZST over the stock tuning (for my preference)
  
 From what I've experienced they don't seem to respond very well to EQ adjustments


----------



## mochill

Burn in is the best eq


----------



## ustinj

Does the ZS3 take standard 2-pin cable? Can I use the cable from my CIEMs?


----------



## vapman

ustinj said:


> Does the ZS3 take standard 2-pin cable? Can I use the cable from my CIEMs?


 
 yes, can't find a picture and too lazy to take a new one, but i have aurisonics 2 pin cable on my ZS3.


----------



## ustinj

@vapman thanks


----------



## Asim0v

Hi there! Can anyone tell me wich one is better? I'm not decided between the ZST or the Zircon. Right now I have the Xiaomi Hybrids and the ATE and I prefer the ATE for their insane isolation, overall signature and tight punchy bass. However I would like a bassier IEM with punchy bass and still with good detail and instrument separation for rock. Wich one would suit my taste better? ZST or Zircons? Help me please


----------



## Comebackboy

hisoundfi said:


> I can't seem to find an EQ adjustment that improves the sound of the ZST over the stock tuning (for my preference)
> 
> From what I've experienced they don't seem to respond very well to EQ adjustments


 
  
 Same, I can't seem to find a good EQ that suits my preference. Unfortunately the ZST are not very responsive to EQing. I'll keep playing with it until I find something I like.


----------



## Comebackboy

asim0v said:


> Hi there! Can anyone tell me wich one is better? I'm not decided between the ZST or the Zircon. Right now I have the Xiaomi Hybrids and the ATE and I prefer the ATE for their insane isolation, overall signature and tight punchy bass. However I would like a bassier IEM with punchy bass and still with good detail and instrument separation for rock. Wich one would suit my taste better? ZST or Zircons? Help me please


 
  
 Not sure about the Zircons though I heard those are bass monsters, with a good soundstage as well.
  
 ZST though has really good isolation even with stock tips and a good amount of bass as well. Details and separation is pretty good too though you would probably want to get the silver cables to improve it.
  
 But if you prefer the ATE you might prefer the Zircons


----------



## Kepller

Has anyone tested the ZS2? Care to give some impressions?


----------



## Vidal

kepller said:


> Has anyone tested the ZS2? Care to give some impressions?


 
  
 Impression? OK, here's my best Donald Trump
  
 <rolls around in bowl of cheetos, applies shredded wheat to head>
  
 'The ZS2 is the sort of earphone that Crooked Hillary would use, she's probably been using them her whole adult life. The bass maybe bigly, but they're ugly dogs. A credible source has just called my office to tell me they're not made in China but in Mexico, we need a wall, a big wall and KZ will pay for it. They're big earphones, my ears aren't small, I guarantee you there’s no problem. I guarantee. No one guarantees like Trump I guarantee it'
  
 Seriously though, if you can get them cheap then they'd be good for the gym non critical listening but the ZS3 is a big improvement.


----------



## ustinj

I accidentally ordered two ZS3s, one shiny version from GB and one matte version from eBay. Hoping to use these as gym beaters. I wonder what the difference between the versions is?


----------



## akhil17kr

Finally after waiting for replies which i didn't get here to make final decision, confused i order the KZ ATE for $6.96 after $2 off.

I'll be upgrading from soundmagic ES18 , is it a good choice to move from ES18 to ATE ?
Are they as comfortable as ES18 with default provide tips and provide tight fit with good noise isolation ?
And if it's reliable enough to use more than 1 year as i take great care of my earphone.
And it should be comfortable while laying on bed too 
The main music genre I'll listen is EDM, Pop and Rock.

If these earphones are not good for this type of music as compared to ES18 please suggest other below $9. 
How's Uiisii HM7 ?


----------



## MuZo2

I think only shell finish. If someone wants a neutral version of KZ ZS3 buy ED12. My ED12 arrived yesterday will do a short comparison later.


----------



## pashhtk27

akhil17kr said:


> Finally after waiting for replies which i didn't get here to make final decision, confused i order the KZ ATE for $6.96 after $2 off.
> 
> I'll be upgrading from soundmagic ES18 , is it a good choice to move from ES18 to ATE ?
> Are they as comfortable as ES18 with default provide tips and provide tight fit with good noise isolation ?
> ...


 

 I do not want to disappoint you, but ate is not the iem you should be looking at. It has more of a relaxing smooth sound signature which sounds great with 'older' music genres. Not so much with modern genres which I believe require faster and more lively signature. And being over the ear style, it can be a bit bulky and not as comfortable while lying on bed. And the default tips are no good, you'll have to put wide bore tips for them to shine.
 I personally do not like es18 because I like lesser bass and more clarity than these offer. I personally would pick kz ed3m if I feel like enjoying more bass when listening to edm, pop or rock. I do not have ed9 or ed10 but I think they would sound quite good with pop, edm if you're not very treble sensitive. ED9 is quite small so should also be more comfortable.

 I'm quite a newbie at the audio scene so take my words with a grain of salt.


----------



## Ruben123

muzo2 said:


> I think only shell finish. If someone wants a neutral version of KZ ZS3 buy ED12. My ED12 arrived yesterday will do a short comparison later.




I thought ed12 was a bit v shaped with a bit overdone treble. Looking forward to reading your evaluation  I find the zs3s with wide tips to be quite natural with a slight enhanced bass.


----------



## mebaali

akhil17kr said:


> Finally after waiting for replies which i didn't get here to make final decision, confused i order the KZ ATE for $6.96 after $2 off.
> 
> I'll be upgrading from soundmagic ES18 , is it a good choice to move from ES18 to ATE ?
> Are they as comfortable as ES18 with default provide tips and provide tight fit with good noise isolation ?
> ...


 
 I have had ES18 as a bedtime listening phones for over 3 years (not using it anymore), from my memory, they had way too bloated midbass that swallowed most other frequencies (I would not recommend them for those seeking clarity and detail retrieval). ATE (inaugural version, been using for over a year) OTOH, has more than decent clarity (a very smooth presentation) despite having a warmer sound signature (not as bassy as ES18).
  
 With right sized (+ bore) tips (i use JVC Spiral dot large size) ATE will provide good sealing. But due to ATE's bulky size (ES18 is super comfortable in that aspect albeit very brittle) and shape, I doubt its use as beater phones for bedtime listening (it wasn't comfortable sleeping with these phones on the ears for me) will work.
  
 Philips SHE3590 is a very good alternative if you are looking for an earphone that is comfortable on the ears with a bit more clarity (and has got a sparkle in the treble that works well for most modern genres of music) than either ES18 and ATE. These you can get for under 400 rupees from Amazon. Among the KZ's, R1 (IINW, they are no longer in production) is what I use for bedtime listening, super comfortable on ears and eerily reminiscent fo ES18's sound except with better mids and treble for my ears.


----------



## haiku

My personal KZ ranking at the moment
  
 1. ATE
 2. ATE S
 3. ZS3


----------



## toddy0191

akhil17kr fork out a little more and get the vivo xe800 for $18. They were $99 originally and were well reviewed at that price. A bit bass light (although it is present down to sub bass and you can eq it up if its too light for you) but has beautiful mids and highs which are really detailed. Separation of sounds is well above its pice and although light, the lower end is tight, fast and responsive, making it good for edm IMO as well as acoustic music.

A massive step up from the ES18s


----------



## Ruben123

toddy0191 said:


> akhil17kr fork out a little more and get the vivo xe800 for $18. They were $99 originally and were well reviewed at that price. A bit bass light (although it is present down to sub bass and you can eq it up if its too light for you) but has beautiful mids and highs which are really detailed. Separation of sounds is well above its pice and although light, the lower end is tight, fast and responsive, making it good for edm IMO as well as acoustic music.
> 
> A massive step up from the ES18s




How is it compared to the best kzs?


----------



## Mellowship

muzo2 said:


> I think only shell finish. If someone wants a neutral version of KZ ZS3 buy ED12. My ED12 arrived yesterday will do a short comparison later.


 
  
 Can you please tell me how the black lids on your ED12 (the ones with ED12 written on them) are placed on the earpiece? Do they cover it perfectly, sealing it, or do they leave a small aperture on one of the sides, letting the air (and sound) pass to the ouside? I can't figure out if this is standard on the ED12, or if this is a bad quality control, and I think it affects sound quality... I really don't like them...


----------



## toddy0191

ruben123 said:


> How is it compared to the best kzs?




I only own the ZS3 and ATE and whilst they're both great, the XE800s are a class above IMO and so they should be as they were $99 iems orginally.

Plus they're super comfortable.


----------



## Ruben123

toddy0191 said:


> I only own the ZS3 and ATE and whilst they're both great, the XE800s are a class above IMO and so they should be as they were $99 iems orginally.
> 
> Plus they're super comfortable.


 

 Enough said. Thanks. Even found them for $3 but they almost MUST be fakes arent they? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-In-ear-Music-Earphone-W-Mic-Headphone-For-VIVO-XE800-iPhone-7-6-Samsung-S6-/151752305190?var=&hash=item2355246a26maYD1PYhk9Cp2huWqdC1qlQ
  
 Also makes me think whether other cheap VIVO XE800s are real or not... if there is one factory making fakes...........


----------



## akhil17kr

pashhtk27 said:


> I do not want to disappoint you, but ate is not the iem you should be looking at. It has more of a relaxing smooth sound signature which sounds great with 'older' music genres. Not so much with modern genres which I believe require faster and more lively signature. And being over the ear style, it can be a bit bulky and not as comfortable while lying on bed. And the default tips are no good, you'll have to put wide bore tips for them to shine.
> 
> I personally do not like es18 because I like lesser bass and more clarity than these offer. I personally would pick kz ed3m if I feel like enjoying more bass when listening to edm, pop or rock. I do not have ed9 or ed10 but I think they would sound quite good with pop, edm if you're not very treble sensitive. ED9 is quite small so should also be more comfortable.
> 
> ...



I am honestly very very confused, audio being the subjective thing really differ from people to people and device to device, have no idea what should i do now ?
I have tested my friend's Ed2 and i find it much louder than es18 on my redmi note 3 with viper4android such that it is really uncomfortable for ears to listen, but at lower volume there is no enjoyment,on the other hand es18 did provide balanced loud volume which ny ears like.

That's what i want, how's ATE vs ED2 ?

Oh god..i don't know what to do ..


----------



## akhil17kr

mebaali said:


> I have had ES18 as a bedtime listening phones for over 3 years (not using it anymore), from my memory, they had way too bloated midbass that swallowed most other frequencies (I would not recommend them for those seeking clarity and detail retrieval). ATE (inaugural version, been using for over a year) OTOH, has more than decent clarity (a very smooth presentation) despite having a warmer sound signature (not as bassy as ES18).
> 
> With right sized (+ bore) tips (i use JVC Spiral dot large size) ATE will provide good sealing. But due to ATE's bulky size (ES18 is super comfortable in that aspect albeit very brittle) and shape, I doubt its use as beater phones for bedtime listening (it wasn't comfortable sleeping with these phones on the ears for me) will work.
> 
> Philips SHE3590 is a very good alternative if you are looking for an earphone that is comfortable on the ears with a bit more clarity (and has got a sparkle in the treble that works well for most modern genres of music) than either ES18 and ATE. These you can get for under 400 rupees from Amazon. Among the KZ's, R1 (IINW, they are no longer in production) is what I use for bedtime listening, super comfortable on ears and eerily reminiscent fo ES18's sound except with better mids and treble for my ears.



Have you ever experienced Ed2 ? It's praised all over net but i didn't liked them, ATE being bestseller and being reviewed very good sound quality i thought it'll be a good upgraded over es18.
I am no audiophile, i just want to enjoy music like how i did with es18 , i hope ATE will not disappoint in that respect and at least it'll be as good as Es18.
And regarding eartips,can you please provide Aliexpress link for ATE tips which is tight with good comfortability and noise isolation? Less than 2$ ?


----------



## Ruben123

Id get the KZ hds1. Very underrated though very good also. Warm and neutral, and very very small and light. You have to see them to believe it. Perfect for in bed! Very efficient too so no need of lots of power.


----------



## akhil17kr

ruben123 said:


> Id get the KZ hds1. Very underrated though very good also. Warm and neutral, and very very small and light. You have to see them to believe it. Perfect for in bed! Very efficient too so no need of lots of power.



Any idea how it'll vs es18, i just absolutely love es18 but now after 1.5 years it's quality have degraded a little.
I want balanced sound quality. Doesn't ATE provide balanced sound quality ?


----------



## Ruben123

akhil17kr said:


> Any idea how it'll vs es18, i just absolutely love es18 but now after 1.5 years it's quality have degraded a little.
> I want balanced sound quality. Doesn't ATE provide balanced sound quality ?


 

 I think they sound quite similar, ATE and HDS1. HDS1 is very balanced, almost neutral except for a slight midrange focussed sound. It doesnt compete at all to the ATE when lying in bed. Also theyre cheaper.


----------



## mebaali

akhil17kr said:


> Have you ever experienced Ed2 ? It's praised all over net but i didn't liked them, ATE being bestseller and being reviewed very good sound quality i thought it'll be a good upgraded over es18.
> I am no audiophile, i just want to enjoy music like how i did with es18 , i hope ATE will not disappoint in that respect and at least it'll be as good as Es18.
> And regarding eartips,can you please provide Aliexpress link for ATE tips which is tight with good comfortability and noise isolation? Less than 2$ ?


 
 I don't own ED2 but I do have EDSE (an older model from KZ which looks same as ED2). I am not fond of its sound (harsh treble) and design (short nozzle makes for a poor fit into my ears), though.
  
 IMHO, ATE is surely an upgrade (laidback, smooth sounding with better overall clarity and vocals) over ES18 (too much boomy bass) in all aspects (sound wise). ATE should work for most music genres.
  
 Regarding tips, it is very subjective. You gotta try tips that works for your inner ear size. Commonly suggested aftermarket tips are JVC spiral dot, Spinfit, and Auvio (all silicone tips). Most of these (except Spinfit, which you can source from AliEx) are not available from Chinese etailing sites (I had bought my JVC spiral dot tips from eBay japan).
  
 In the meantime, I would suggest you to wait for your ATE delivery. Check and see how the stock tips fits for your ears and then go on from there.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## pashhtk27

akhil17kr said:


> I am honestly very very confused, audio being the subjective thing really differ from people to people and device to device, have no idea what should i do now ?
> I have tested my friend's Ed2 and i find it much louder than es18 on my redmi note 3 with viper4android such that it is really uncomfortable for ears to listen, but at lower volume there is no enjoyment,on the other hand es18 did provide balanced loud volume which ny ears like.
> 
> That's what i want, how's ATE vs ED2 ?
> ...


 
  
 Why not wait for the ate to come and see if you like them. I think they are good with Indian classical and bollywood slower music, if you listen to those. 
 And for lying down buy some other earphone like the ones recommended above.

 I don't have the ed2, but from what I've read about them they are much brighter and if you find bright signature uncomfortable, ED9 and ED10 won't be good for you. Ate is one of the least bright kz, and they are really good. Just not with modern music. I definitely like them more than es18, they are technically superior with better soundstage, mids, voice, clarity and separation just not the same/similar signature. I use them from my phone too (redmi 1s).

 Ate provides balanced sound but the es18 is NOT balanced. 

 Edit: Check kz whirlwind tips, I use them with my ate and they can be bought very cheaply. ~$1


----------



## akhil17kr

pashhtk27 said:


> Why not wait for the ate to come and see if you like them. I think they are good with Indian classical and bollywood slower music, if you listen to those.
> 
> And for lying down buy some other earphone like the ones recommended above.
> 
> ...



Nationality sometimes do help figuring out what a person want lol 

Anyway here's the thing the ed2 is kind of boomy bass, i can feel it kind of just boom boom my ears the kind of vibration feeling. I don't want that, i think that is called bright maybe.

On the other hand, soundmagic es18 doesn't have boomy bass, it has balanced ,atleast that's what i feel. For me its balanced sound quality,i want sound not to be very loud, very bassy, too much treble, etc everything just should sound equal and balanced like how the sound track should supposed to sound.
And yes the clarity, no sound frequency/property should overlap other.

I hope ATE will provide that and yes it should be good tight fit after all without good fit there is no point


----------



## Godfsvor

Hi, I have bought a zs3 and a zst from eBay, I don't know if I had purchased fake ones, is there a high probability? Is there a way to spot if they are fake when they arrive?


----------



## Sylmar

Just received the KZ ATR and I'm pretty impressed. Does anyone know how they compare in sound to the ZS3 and ZST?


----------



## lohjiahung

Will the KZ ATRs fit Comply Foam tips, Spinfits or JVC Spiral Dots? I'm thinking of grabbing a pair to enhance the comfort of my ATRs, as the provided silicone tips don't really cut it.


----------



## Ruben123

sylmar said:


> Just received the KZ ATR and I'm pretty impressed. Does anyone know how they compare in sound to the ZS3 and ZST?




I got the zs3 but bought the atr too, should arrive in few weeks at max. I'm really impressed by them and atr should be a cheaper version with the same sound as the zs3. Should be. Will let you know! But probably too late for you anyways lol


----------



## Sylmar

ruben123 said:


> I got the zs3 but bought the atr too, should arrive in few weeks at max. I'm really impressed by them and atr should be a cheaper version with the same sound as the zs3. Should be. Will let you know! But probably too late for you anyways lol


 
 Sure would be interested in your impressions! I got the ATR today and it's very enjoyable to me, hope you will like them too. They sound as a better ATE to me, better highs and a little more defined in sound. If you could do some comparison impressions when you receive yours I would be very grateful. I wanted to buy the ZSR and ZS3 myself but wallet said no so I'll have to wait a little longer.


----------



## akhil17kr

sylmar said:


> Sure would be interested in your impressions! I got the ATR today and it's very enjoyable to me, hope you will like them too. They sound as a better ATE to me, better highs and a little more defined in sound. If you could do some comparison impressions when you receive yours I would be very grateful. I wanted to buy the ZSR and ZS3 myself but wallet said no so I'll have to wait a little longer.



If ATR are same worst or better than ATE if you've both to test ?
ATR is bit cheaper than ATE, if it's better or as same as ATE i will cancel my ATE order and will order ATR


----------



## pashhtk27

akhil17kr said:


> Nationality sometimes do help figuring out what a person want lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That would be bassy. Bright is too much treble energy. So I'll correct my earlier sentence: I don't have the ed2 but from what I've read they sound bright and bassy. 

 Ate are neutral with just a bit emphasized sub bass that is still lower than the es18. So no problems there.
 And Ate will fit good. I had to give it to my father since that's the only earphone he's not uncomfortable wearing and now he uses them. And guess which earphone he used before - Es18. 
 But he only needs them to watch videos on phone and don't care about the sound~

 I'm thinking of buying an atr to fulfill my needs now. From the first impressions on these, maybe I'll like them better. But in any case I'll miss the beautiful translucent black shells of the ate.


----------



## Ruben123

I still don't get why you wouldn't get an hds1 for using in bed. Ate are much too big for that.


----------



## B9Scrambler

akhil17kr said:


> If ATR are same worst or better than ATE if you've both to test ?
> ATR is bit cheaper than ATE, if it's better or as same as ATE i will cancel my ATE order and will order ATR


 
  
 ATR is a direct refinement of the ATE's slightly mid-focused signature. They are exceptionally similar with the ATR having better extension at both ends, and a touch more energy. It balances out the sound nicely and makes them a bit more entertaining. The ATR is not a significant departure from the ATE, but there were just enough changes in the right areas to make them worth picking up over the ATE. ATR is also better built and ever so slightly more ergonomic due to the refinements made to the nozzle. You truly can't go wrong with either, but if you have to get one, go for the ATR. Of course, all of this is my opinion and based on my own personal experiences (extensive with the ATE) with both earphones.


----------



## akhil17kr

pashhtk27 said:


> That would be bassy. Bright is too much treble energy. So I'll correct my earlier sentence: I don't have the ed2 but from what I've read they sound bright and bassy.
> 
> 
> Ate are neutral with just a bit emphasized sub bass that is still lower than the es18. So no problems there.
> ...



Fathers.. yeah ..they don't give a damn about sound quality 
Anyways, fit and neutral is good,viper4android is there to tweak it, i listen in my phone only with viper4android enabled.
Hey if ATR are same ,better or worst than ATE?
It's cheaper by about 200INR, should i cancel the ATE and order ATR ?every penny counts for me man...pocket money you know...


----------



## mebaali

ruben123 said:


> I still don't get why you wouldn't get an hds1 for using in bed. Ate are much too big for that.


 
 +1. ATE will be cumbersome for bedtime listening even with a good sealing due to its shape and size.
  
 HDS1 is a pretty good choice, both on sound signature (very balanced signature with a slight midbass hump) and form factor.


----------



## akhil17kr

ruben123 said:


> I still don't get why you wouldn't get an hds1 for using in bed. Ate are much too big for that.


 how's the sound quality of hds1 as compared to ATE ?


----------



## akhil17kr

b9scrambler said:


> ATR is a direct refinement of the ATE's slightly mid-focused signature. They are exceptionally similar with the ATR having better extension at both ends, and a touch more energy. It balances out the sound nicely and makes them a bit more entertaining. The ATR is not a significant departure from the ATE, but there were just enough changes in the right areas to make them worth picking up over the ATE. ATR is also better built and ever so slightly more ergonomic due to the refinements made to the nozzle. You truly can't go wrong with either, but if you have to get one, go for the ATR. Of course, all of this is my opinion and based on my own personal experiences (extensive with the ATE) with both earphones.



Seems like ATR is better, if that's so why ATE is expensive than ATR ?


----------



## akhil17kr

mebaali said:


> +1. ATE will be cumbersome for bedtime listening even with a good sealing due to its shape and size.
> 
> HDS1 is a pretty good choice, both on sound signature (very balanced signature with a slight midbass hump) and form factor.



Hey by bedtime listening what i mean is i am not going to completely rest my left or right ear completely on pillow but fold my arm such that my ear will rest on arm with ear resting in the space created between arm . Argh... can't explain.. it's just earphone will not touch the pillow.


----------



## mebaali

akhil17kr said:


> Hey by bedtime listening what i mean is i am not going to completely rest my left or right ear completely on pillow but fold my arm such that my ear will rest on arm with ear resting in the space creates between arm . Argh... can't explain.. it's just earphone will not touch the pillow.


 
 Still, ATE's form factor is way different than what you would have experienced with ES18 for such positions.
  
 Since you have already made the order, wait for the ATE to arrive. Check it personally and make your decisions based on that.


----------



## Raim1

Hi guys, I'm looking forward to buy dual driver iems. I'm confused between Kz zs1 and Kz zs2. I'm currently using shure se215 ltd and AT m50 x & thought of adding a dual driver iem to my collection. I like an overall balanced sound with wide Soundstage and high clarity. I'm not a basshead but don't mind high bass as long as it's not interfering with mids and highs. So zs1 or zs2? Also if there are any other cheap dual driver iems in this price range?


----------



## akhil17kr

mebaali said:


> Still, ATE's form factor is way different than what you would have experienced with ES18 for such positions.
> 
> Since you have already made the order, wait for the ATE to arrive. Check it personally and make your decisions based on that.



Well it'll take 20-30 days for it to arrive, i don't have problem to cancel it. I have actually no luxury to buy and try different earphones actually  so dependent on you guys totally as it's a 1 time purchase for me


----------



## mebaali

akhil17kr said:


> Well it'll took 20-30 days for it to arrive, i don't have problem to cancel it. I have actually no luxury to buy and try different earphones actually  so dependent on you guys totally as it's a 1 time purchase for me


 
 In danger of sounding repetitive, ATE is a pretty solid upgrade over your ES18 (in terms of Sound quality and build quality) but don't expect them to give you same sort of fit or comfort while in lying positions (as both these phones have totally different form factors)


----------



## thmarci

I forgot...

  


vidal said:


> I like mine, what particular track are you listening to with the issues? I'll see if mine do the same.


 


 I usually listen to ALL kind os electronic or anything whis has electrióonic in it. Like, Dubstep, Drum n Bass, Chillstep, Drumstep, J-Pop, J-Core, other Japanees Vocal and electronic mixed song, or to say names, Monstercat, Spinnin Session, Freak Show, Alice Margatroid from YT, REOL, Ammy / エイミー from YT, other Podcasts... 
 The main problem for me is the highs, and how they aew separetad from the lows, also, they gave me the feeling of falling of from my ear... they sound like they are gona fall out, but they are not, just the highs are playing fun of me by cheking my earphones every 2 seconds.
 Im using JUST a phone, a Elephone P6000 with MM on it, for equalizers I'm using Panasonic Headset, Dolby Atmos and Viper4Android. Yep, I'm an eq guy 
 But I could ALWAYS find a good stting before for ALL of my headsets, Rock Zircon, KZ HDS1, ZN1, Sony EX50LP, also tried with Xiaomi Hybrid, Sony EX20, some Senheiser, other AKGs, and Skullcandys. But I never had this weird feeling lisening to them... 
 I dont know if it's Just my ZSt, or all of them like this, but if the second, then it a big turndown for me.

 (Sorry, if I went a bit offtopic  Also for my English  )


----------



## akhil17kr

mebaali said:


> In danger of sounding repetitive, ATE is a pretty solid upgrade over your ES18 (in terms of Sound quality and build quality) but don't expect them to give you same sort of fit or comfort while in lying positions (as both these phones have totally different form factors)



Thank you for layman terms, i am relaxed now. Well for laying position I'll use es18 then if ATE is not comfortable


----------



## Ruben123

raim1 said:


> Hi guys, I'm looking forward to buy dual driver iems. I'm confused between Kz zs1 and Kz zs2. I'm currently using shure se215 ltd and AT m50 x & thought of adding a dual driver iem to my collection. I like an overall balanced sound with wide Soundstage and high clarity. I'm not a basshead but don't mind high bass as long as it's not interfering with mids and highs. So zs1 or zs2? Also if there are any other cheap dual driver iems in this price range?




Better get the edr2, ed3, ed9 or zs3 instead of any of them.


----------



## mebaali

akhil17kr said:


> Thank you for layman terms, i am relaxed now. Well for laying position I'll use es18 then if ATE is not comfortable


 
 ATE is by far the most favt KZ IEM that i have in my collection (due to its relaxed nature of sound presentation that works for long listening sessions during work) Hopefully, it will match with your sound preference too.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## akhil17kr

mebaali said:


> ATE is by far the most favt KZ IEM that i have in my collection (due to its relaxed nature of sound presentation that works for long listening sessions during work) Hopefully, it will match with your sound preference too.
> 
> Cheers!



I hope so, will let you guys know when I'll get my hands on it.
BTW it's reliable enough to run atleast for 1-1.5 year ?
I have my es18 for more than 1.5 years and have taken a good care of them while other people get it broken in just 6 months.


----------



## Raim1

ruben123 said:


> Better get the edr2, ed3, ed9 or zs3 instead of any of them.




Actually I've always owned dynamic driver iems, so I'm curious about the dual driver iems. I know zs1 and zs2 are bass heavy but what if I use eq and bring the bass down a bit, can I expect clear mids and highs then?


----------



## thmarci

raim1 said:


> Actually I've always owned dynamic driver iems, so I'm curious about the dual driver iems. I know zs1 and zs2 are bass heavy but what if I use eq and bring the bass down a bit, can I expect clear mids and highs then?


  

 What about ZN1 and ZN1 Mini ?


----------



## 1clearhead

b9scrambler said:


> ATR is a direct refinement of the ATE's slightly mid-focused signature. They are exceptionally similar with the ATR having better extension at both ends, and a touch more energy. It balances out the sound nicely and makes them a bit more entertaining. The ATR is not a significant departure from the ATE, but there were just enough changes in the right areas to make them worth picking up over the ATE. ATR is also better built and ever so slightly more ergonomic due to the refinements made to the nozzle. You truly can't go wrong with either, but if you have to get one, go for the ATR. Of course, all of this is my opinion and based on my own personal experiences (extensive with the ATE) with both earphones.


 
  
 Good to hear 'B9Scrambler'! .....I'll probably make a purchase on the ATR instead of the ED12. So far, I'm not liking the ZST and didn't want to downgrade to the ED12, which may just be the ZST, but without the BA armature.


----------



## crabdog

raim1 said:


> Actually I've always owned dynamic driver iems, so I'm curious about the dual driver iems. I know zs1 and zs2 are bass heavy but what if I use eq and bring the bass down a bit, can I expect clear mids and highs then?


 
 I'd suggest spending a few dollars more for the Tennmak Pro.


----------



## Sylmar

b9scrambler said:


> ATR is a direct refinement of the ATE's slightly mid-focused signature. They are exceptionally similar with the ATR having better extension at both ends, and a touch more energy. It balances out the sound nicely and makes them a bit more entertaining. The ATR is not a significant departure from the ATE, but there were just enough changes in the right areas to make them worth picking up over the ATE. ATR is also better built and ever so slightly more ergonomic due to the refinements made to the nozzle. You truly can't go wrong with either, but if you have to get one, go for the ATR. Of course, all of this is my opinion and based on my own personal experiences (extensive with the ATE) with both earphones.


 
 Got my ATR today and I can only agree. This is a great update of the ATE on KZ's part.


----------



## akhil17kr

sylmar said:


> Got my ATR today and I can only agree. This is a great update of the ATE on KZ's part.



ATR ia upgrade over ATE ? But ATR are cheaper than ATE and on alixexpress ATE is still selling crazy while ATR very low.


----------



## B9Scrambler

akhil17kr said:


> ATR ia upgrade over ATE ? But ATR are cheaper than ATE and on alixexpress ATE is still selling crazy while ATR very low.




Price doesn't mean much, especially with KZ.


----------



## Raim1

crabdog said:


> I'd suggest spending a few dollars more for the Tennmak Pro.




I've read the reviews. Are they really bang for buck (Tennmak Pro) like do they beat other sub 50 dollar iems?


----------



## Raim1

thmarci said:


> What about ZN1 and ZN1 Mini ?




Which one is better between them?


----------



## akhil17kr

b9scrambler said:


> Price doesn't mean much, especially with KZ.



So what you're saying is should i cancel my ATE order and order ATR ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

akhil17kr You could. Either way you'll be getting a good earphone.


----------



## crabdog

raim1 said:


> I've read the reviews. Are they really bang for buck (Tennmak Pro) like do they beat other sub 50 dollar iems?


 
 They're very impressive. I don't have the ATE but do have EDR2 and ED9 and I would take the Pro over those anyday.


----------



## pashhtk27

@akhil17kr When you are on headfi, you won't be able to survive with just one earphone. 
 I'm a guy with a small budget too, and I'm using all my allowance to buy one extra pair. That's what headfi does to you.
  
 The built quality of ate is quite solid and should last but you need to be extra careful since the housings are big and wire a bit sticky which makes them more prone to accidental damage. Just use the pouch you got with es18 to store them, or buy a cheap hard case for $1~ from aliexpress.

 Price doesn't matter with the KZs as B9 said. You can buy zs3 cheaper than zs1/zs2 and from what all say they are better. You can always cancel ate and buy atr. But won't that be a hassle.


----------



## Raim1

crabdog said:


> They're very impressive. I don't have the ATE but do have EDR2 and ED9 and I would take the Pro over those anyday.




How do they compare with Xiaomi hybrid pro?


----------



## Sylmar

akhil17kr said:


> ATR ia upgrade over ATE ? But ATR are cheaper than ATE and on alixexpress ATE is still selling crazy while ATR very low.


 
 An upgrade in sound for me at least.


----------



## thmarci

raim1 said:


> Which one is better between them?


 
 Between the ZN1 and ZN1 Mini? 
 The ZN1 have an AMP unit on it with battery, separate bass- ,tereble controll for the two drivers, but it's heavy for using when you walk around. The ZN1 Mini is the same heastet, without the AMP box. I own a ZN1, and I reeeealy love the sound of it, even in passive mode (when the amp is off). But! I Don't know Tennmark pro, but as far as I know, they are good too.
 Is there anybody owning these two both?


----------



## Raim1

akhil17kr said:


> So what you're saying is should i cancel my ATE order and order ATR ?




Hello fellow Indian here. I'm planning to order my iems from Aliexpress, like yourself. Can I pay by COD? And would it cost me more than the original price listed on Aliexpress?


----------



## Majin

thmarci said:


> Between the ZN1 and ZN1 Mini?
> The ZN1 have an AMP unit on it with battery, separate bass- ,tereble controll for the two drivers, but it's heavy for using when you walk around. The ZN1 Mini is the same heastet, without the AMP box. I own a ZN1, and I reeeealy love the sound of it, even in passive mode (when the amp is off). But! I Don't know Tennmark pro, but as far as I know, they are good too.
> Is there anybody owning these two both?


 
  
 I've owned the ZN1 with the amp and the sound is really close to the UE TF10 just lacking some micro details. For 22,50 euro it was a steal but ye the amp attached to it is too heavy and at an awkward spot for portable use. With the amp off the sound is muddy and has too much bass. I've sold it and have been on a quest to find something of similar value.


----------



## akhil17kr

raim1 said:


> Hello fellow Indian here. I'm planning to order my iems from Aliexpress, like yourself. Can I pay by COD? And would it cost me more than the original price listed on Aliexpress?


 
No COD not available for international shopping and the price shown in rupees is final , though i am not sure as i used virtual netsafe hdfc card with fixed limit and I don't know how much it deduct from it.but most probably it's final price.


----------



## akhil17kr

pashhtk27 said:


> @akhil17kr
> When you are on headfi, you won't be able to survive with just one earphone.
> 
> I'm a guy with a small budget too, and I'm using all my allowance to buy one extra pair. That's what headfi does to you.
> ...



Lol you do understand my feelings, okay that won't be a much hassle, it's just a new order.but you're right it's just 150-209INR difference, i shouldn't care that much 
And hey btw please provide links for ear tips in advance for ATE, good tight one with good noise isolation, I'm actually not able to find good one which is told me here which is less than $1


----------



## KipNix

haiku said:


> Just bought the reissue of ELP´s "Brain Salad Surgery" in 24/96. That album has soooo much sub bass!! Listening right now with the ATE S. Whooaa....!


 
  
 Thanks for the tip. I'll go listen to it right now with the ZS3.


----------



## pashhtk27

akhil17kr said:


> Lol you do understand my feelings, okay that won't be a much hassle, it's just a new order.but you're right it's just 150-209INR difference, i shouldn't care that much
> And hey btw please provide links for ear tips in advance for ATE, good tight one with good noise isolation, I'm actually not able to find good one which is told me here which is less than $1


 
  
 These ones: goo.gl/FdAezP


----------



## Vidal

I'm really not sure what's causing this but I've seen a few people saying that the ZSTs are a little grainy. To be honest I couldn't understand this as I hadn't noticed it.
  
 However, I've been listening to the KZs straight from my iPhone until today. The moment I added my Fiio K1 to the mix the sound seemed off.
  
 Switching back to the iPhone 6 headphone socket and it's all good again.
  
 Go figure!


----------



## akhil17kr

pashhtk27 said:


> These ones: goo.gl/FdAezP


 

 Ordered those  but have also ordered these foam tips , please tell me which size should i message seller to send ?
 I mostly wear M sized tips on most of earphones.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/C-set-4-9mm-Caliber-Earphone-Sponge-Comply-T200-T400-T500-tips-Headset-Memory-Foam-Sponge/1909638_32469980958.html
  
 The eartips should fit the KZ ATE and is possible SoundMagic ES18 too 
  
 EDIT- according to the link , T200- 4.1m and T400-4.9MM and i have measured the both ear canal and ear tips hole size and it come as between 0.4 and 0.5 , So i think I will choose T200 for good tight fitting to the canal instead of bigger which may loose.
 Please correct me if i am wrong.


----------



## haiku

While it is true that the sub bass of the ZS3 is more controlled, the big bloomy sub bass of the ATE (+S) is so much more fun imo.


----------



## Vidal

thmarci said:


> I forgot...
> 
> I usually listen to ALL kind os electronic or anything whis has electrióonic in it. Like, Dubstep, Drum n Bass, Chillstep, Drumstep, J-Pop, J-Core, other Japanees Vocal and electronic mixed song, or to say names, Monstercat, Spinnin Session, Freak Show, Alice Margatroid from YT, REOL, Ammy / エイミー from YT, other Podcasts...
> The main problem for me is the highs, and how they aew separetad from the lows, also, they gave me the feeling of falling of from my ear... they sound like they are gona fall out, but they are not, just the highs are playing fun of me by cheking my earphones every 2 seconds.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry I missed this see my comment above re: the device. It probably doesn't make much sense but I noticed the fact the mids sounded a bit off when using a DAC rather than straight from the headphone socket.


----------



## Ruben123

vidal said:


> Sorry I missed this see my comment above re: the device. It probably doesn't make much sense but I noticed the fact the mids sounded a bit off when using a DAC rather than straight from the headphone socket.




Sounds like an impedance mismatch to me.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> The stock silicone tips that comes with it hurts but if you have some better ones like the JVC spiral dots, they work well and are comfortable. I like the foam type ones also but it makes it really difficult to easily put on and take off iems that are  lol. I end up looking like a d-bag walking around with them on at work because of the hassle of taking them off and putting them on. And I also noticed that the foam tips made the bass more boomy for me (I don't know if it's the shape of my ear canals, but that's the effect that I get
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup, that certainly is true. I like the album quite a lot now. Any other similar albums/test tracks that you'd recommend?
  
 Also, have you made your final impression on the ZS3 & ATR? Looking forward to it.


----------



## fonkepala

astralmind said:


> Wow thanks for the recommendation. Starr's bass sounded so enveloping with the ate, great evaluation track.


 
  
 Credit goes to @maxwelled for recommending that album in the first place.


----------



## SSSN

What's the most neutral KZ IEM? Something that sounds BA like


----------



## Ruben123

sssn said:


> What's the most neutral KZ IEM? Something that sounds BA like




Probably the ed9 as I've been on the same search add you and find them the most pleasing. Though the Atr is on its way and I like the zs3 too, albeit its dark neutral sound.


----------



## kiler

Yeah ED9 would be the choice, but I still wouldn't say a BA sound, as I find that both lower and upper range of sound are bit too accentuated


----------



## jipan

Just opening the box of new ATR. I was ordering for my friend, so I can't say much about the sound. Build quality is good, the finish seems smoother than my ATE. The casing is glossy black, not smoky like ATE. I'm not fond of the font used, though, seems like less classy than ATE.

Surprise, I found a small vent near the nozzle, like the one at earlier production of ATE. If the sound is better than ATE, I'm going to order one! It's cheaper than ATE. 

I want to borrow it to play, but unfortunately tomorrow morning I'm going for 9 days business trip to site locations darn it


----------



## Comebackboy

Does anyone know if the 2pin cable for the zst is the same as other 2pin cables?


----------



## vapman

comebackboy said:


> Does anyone know if the 2pin cable for the zst is the same as other 2pin cables?


 

 almost definitely yes. i have used aurisonics 2 pic cable on ZS3.


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> almost definitely yes. i have used aurisonics 2 pic cable on ZS3.


 

 And is it a step up in SQ or not? I´m rather underwhelmed by the ZS3 so far.


----------



## maxwelled

fonkepala said:


> Yup, that certainly is true. I like the album quite a lot now. Any other similar albums/test tracks that you'd recommend?
> 
> Also, have you made your final impression on the ZS3 & ATR? Looking forward to it.


 
  
 No final impression yet, and honestly it is due to me having some difficulty finding the right tips with the ZS3. So from looking at my ZS3, it doesn't seem to have a vent hole; therefore when I push them into my ears it feels like I'm pressurizing my ear. I am still unsure if it's the shape of my ear canals or the shape and design of the ZS3 and the length and width of the stem, but it's really weird. And since I don't want to cause any damage, I don't keep them on long enough to even listen through a song and immediately remove them.
  
 Fortunately, just today I've found a small work around after some experimenting. I'm now using a rubber o-ring before I put the tips in so it pushes the tips out slightly further away from the body of the earphone and further from the tip of the stem. This reduced the pressurized feeling I'm getting but not completely. I'll have a good listen tomorrow when I'm at work.
  
 On another note, the ATR is simply amazing and fun to listen to. No other words are really needed, but if I had to choose between the ATR and the 4in1 when I have to walk outside and wear earphones all day long, I'd easily choose the ATR. The 4in1 sure has a better sound quality but the ATR doesn't fall that far behind. And considering the ATR's only have 1 driver each side, not fatiguing, lighter (you hardly feel the weight), and cost $5 or less, it's just wow...
  
 If you compared the more expensive ZST to the ATR, even though from the price stand point the ZST should be the winner; but it's actually the ATR's win. The ATR is clearer, has better details, it isn't muddy, the bass isn't overly emphasized but it is there (a great sub bass does come out with the right tips), the sound stage is decent and it isn't narrow like the ZST, and it has good imaging. If I had to compare what ATR's sound quality reminds me of, or what it's really close to then it would be the Vivo XE800. The difference being that the XE800 is brighter and more on the cooler side, while the ATR is leaning more to the warmer side. It isn't a perfect comparison but it is close, for $5 it really is a bargain. I've already ordered more to give away as gifts and stocking stuffers for Christmas.
  
  
 Edit: The 2nd pair of ZS3 has vent holes on them, so 1 of the pair (one I was burning-in didn't, it had the indentations for where it should be but it wasn't open). So I will be opening the vent hole on them later and hopefully it gets better.


----------



## Comebackboy

vapman said:


> almost definitely yes. i have used aurisonics 2 pic cable on ZS3.




Strange. I tried my friend's rhapsodio 2pin cable but it didnt seem to fit for some reason. You sure it fits? Because I'm looking to buy a better cable with memory wire because the silver zst cable doesn't have memory wire and I don't like earhooks


----------



## Ruben123

So... A quick summary for the zs3s in the meantime, having thrown it at several genres... I'm impressed, like really impressed. For what they do, they do it perfectly. They're not my cup of tea regarding the tuning but I hear they're awesome. Why do I use them then? For the isolation, fit and slight bass elevated sound. They don't sound crisp but rather a tad warm. I don't think though it rolls off early. Voices sound life-like. I wonder if it's possible to get any higher value for money. Yes the Monoprices have a better tuning, though are technically worse since they exhibit a 4khz peak and while the bass is lovely neutral, it doesn't have much texture and the build quality is less. Now very excited to receive the ATR. If they have a tad better treble and less bass...... I'll keep you updated. Expect a hds1 vs ed9 vs Atr vs zs3 vs Monoprice in the future.


----------



## rockingthearies

I ordered my ZS3 on GB since 3rd Sept and its still not here is there anything i should do or do i continue waiting?


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> No final impression yet, and honestly it is due to me having some difficulty finding the right tips with the ZS3. So from looking at my ZS3, it doesn't seem to have a vent hole; therefore when I push them into my ears it feels like I'm pressurizing my ear. I am still unsure if it's the shape of my ear canals or the shape and design of the ZS3 and the length and width of the stem, but it's really weird. And since I don't want to cause any damage, I don't keep them on long enough to even listen through a song and immediately remove them.
> 
> Fortunately, just today I've found a small work around after some experimenting. I'm now using a rubber o-ring before I put the tips in so it pushes the tips out slightly further away from the body of the earphone and further from the tip of the stem. This reduced the pressurized feeling I'm getting but not completely. I'll have a good listen tomorrow when I'm at work.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the input @maxwelled, especially regarding the ATR. Can't wait to get mine now  Gearbest says it has been shipped but the tracking number (they used Kerry Express something or other out of HK, kinda obscure courier no?) hasn't been updated much and gives very sparse information.
  
 About the ZS3 and that rubber O-ring workaround that you're using, sounds tedious! Have you tried using other 3rd party tips, i.e. Spiral Dots, Spinfits, Complys etc?
  
 The XE800 is another IEM I'm thinking of ordering aside from the 4in1. Would you say the XE800 is marginally better than the ATR?


----------



## maxwelled

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for the input @maxwelled
> , especially regarding the ATR. Can't wait to get mine now  Gearbest says it has been shipped but the tracking number (they used Kerry Express something or other out of HK, kinda obscure courier no?) hasn't been updated much and gives very sparse information.
> 
> About the ZS3 and that rubber O-ring workaround that you're using, sounds tedious! Have you tried using other 3rd party tips, i.e. Spiral Dots, Spinfits, Complys etc?
> ...




The o-ring thing isn't really something new, I've used it before and I think some members here have as well. I have mechanical keyboards and so I purchase keycap o-rings to lower actuation distance and dampen the sound as it can be distracting especially in a work environment. So I have a lot of those o-rings in hand and they work perfectly to act as spacers for the tips. I have tried my assortment of aftermarket tips, as I have plenty of types and kinds. [Spiral dot, spin free, comply (authentic isolation and comfort versions), replica comply tips (bullet and circular versions), all the kz tips, Sony hybrid tips (silicone only and as well as silicone with foam), double flange, and triple flange] I've found that only after adding the o-ring spacer that it became usable. It's what gave me the best comfort and isolation so I could actually use the earphone. 

As for XE800, hmm it's difficult to say because each has its strengths and weaknesses. The ATR is more of an all rounder but the XE800 is specific. XE800 can get too sibilant, and if you have the 4in1 and the ATR then I can honestly say you don't need to bother with the XE800. However, if you are planning to collect then sure it'd be a great addition to your collection. In my opinion, in the price range of sub $35; the 4in1, ATR and XE800 are all punching above their price ranges, and maybe even up to earphones costing up to $100; with the only exceptions being the LZ A2s and the TFZ Series 5 - but that's another topic all together. :]

Gearbest ships fairly quickly but the carriers are a different matter, so I usually choose to pay that extra few to ship using registered Epost when I order from them.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> As for XE800, hmm it's difficult to say because each has its strengths and weaknesses. The ATR is more of an all rounder but the XE800 is specific. XE800 can get too sibilant, and if you have the 4in1 and the ATR then I can honestly say you don't need to bother with the XE800. However, if you are planning to collect then sure it'd be a great addition to your collection. In my opinion, in the price range of sub $35; the 4in1, ATR and XE800 are all punching above their price ranges, and maybe even up to earphones costing up to $100; with the only exceptions being the LZ A2s and the TFZ Series 5 - but that's another topic all together. :]
> 
> Gearbest ships fairly quickly but the carriers are a different matter, so I usually choose to pay that extra few to ship using registered Epost when I order from them.


 
  
 The thing that attracted me to the XE800 is that supposedly they use the same drivers as the famed GR07. Also, from their photos, they look to be quite ergonomic and comfortable. But yeah, maybe once I already have the 4in1 and the ATR & ZS3, perhaps there's no reason to get the XE800 as well, like you said. Not much of an earphone 'collector' as a 'user'..after all, I only have 2 ears 
  
 Yeah, in hindsight, I probably should have chosen the faster shipping option when checking out from Gearbest the other day...oh well.
  
 I've wrote a brief initial impression of the Series 5 here in another thread if you're interested: http://www.head-fi.org/t/794787/mee-audio-pinnacle-p1-199-dynamic-driver-flagship-reviews-2nd-post/1980#post_12906118
  
 Have yet to try the LZ A2..so yeah..


----------



## rikk009

fonkepala said:


> The thing that attracted me to the XE800 is that supposedly they use the same drivers as the famed GR07. Also, from their photos, they look to be quite ergonomic and comfortable. But yeah, maybe once I already have the 4in1 and the ATR & ZS3, perhaps there's no reason to get the XE800 as well, like you said. Not much of an earphone 'collector' as a 'user'..after all, I only have 2 ears
> 
> Yeah, in hindsight, I probably should have chosen the faster shipping option when checking out from Gearbest the other day...oh well.
> 
> ...


 
 I bought the XE800 on cues that it's GR07 'resemblance' but that ends just with swindling drivers. The sound is not sibilant at all which is what associated with GR07. To be honest I prefer my modded piston 2.1 over it, ZS3 still hasn't reached me.


----------



## fonkepala

rikk009 said:


> I bought the XE800 on cues that it's GR07 'resemblance' but that ends just with swindling drivers. The sound is not sibilant at all which is what associated with GR07. To be honest I prefer my modded piston 2.1 over it, ZS3 still hasn't reached me.


 
  
 I see. So I take it that you weren't that impressed with the XE800 at all? I'm guessing if the X800 is not sibilant then that's good, isn't it?
  
 As for the Piston 2.1, I have one in stock form and frankly I hate it. Too bassy & bloated for my taste. Yet another proof in point that we all have different tastes & ideal sound signatures I guess...


----------



## Ruben123

fonkepala said:


> I see. So I take it that you weren't that impressed with the XE800 at all? I'm guessing if the X800 is not sibilant then that's good, isn't it?
> 
> As for the Piston 2.1, I have one in stock form and frankly I hate it. Too bassy & bloated for my taste. Yet another proof in point that we all have different tastes & ideal sound signatures I guess...




Atr and xe800 are on their way to me....


----------



## rikk009

fonkepala said:


> I see. So I take it that you weren't that impressed with the XE800 at all? I'm guessing if the X800 is not sibilant then that's good, isn't it?
> 
> As for the Piston 2.1, I have one in stock form and frankly I hate it. Too bassy & bloated for my taste. Yet another proof in point that we all have different tastes & ideal sound signatures I guess...


 
 I said 'modded' Piston 2.1. I hated the stock myself hence modded it. XE800 is not GR07 has pitted by others, that was my point. It has good bass. I took it out again to give you a live impression. Listening to some electronic I get good mid bass as well sub-bass extension but then I have modded my pistons in a very satisfying bass quality. But Pistons which were V-shaped earlier are now very dark sounding now delight for EDM. In contrast, XE800 are somewhat balanced. My initial grudge(and still lingering) might be these where instantly nomenclated as re-branded GR07. Comfort is great on these. But I feel treble and details lacking that's not what impression posted by others. Depth is not great either. 
  
 P.S> Listening via Centrance Slim
  
 Edit: To add the instrument placement seems bit odd to me. I have burned these 10 hours and atleast the bass has settles down a little. Maybe it requires more burnin time.


----------



## mochill

Burn in the xe800 for 300hrs minimum, they are also tuned differently from gr07 . they are more mid oriented with flat bass and treble.


----------



## rikk009

mochill said:


> Burn in the xe800 for 300hrs minimum, they are also tuned differently from gr07 . they are more mid oriented with flat bass and treble.


 
 Do you have XE800?


----------



## sgl54

There is a sleight difference Kz uses .75 the previous standard being .78 . It seems that even with the .03 difference many still work. I know **** known as EE earphones offers upgrade cables for Kz in both angled and straight end. I have a set coming for the Zst


----------



## squallkiercosa

GB uses the lowest priority mail services to save costs. We could order the zs3 at such low price only because of that... my suggestion is to forget you bought them and they will arrive... one unexpected day.


----------



## maxwelled

rikk009 said:


> I said 'modded' Piston 2.1. I hated the stock myself hence modded it. XE800 is not GR07 has pitted by others, that was my point. It has good bass. I took it out again to give you a live impression. Listening to some electronic I get good mid bass as well sub-bass extension but then I have modded my pistons in a very satisfying bass quality. But Pistons which were V-shaped earlier are now very dark sounding now delight for EDM. In contrast, XE800 are somewhat balanced. My initial grudge(and still lingering) might be these where instantly nomenclated as re-branded GR07. Comfort is great on these. But I feel treble and details lacking that's not what impression posted by others. Depth is not great either.
> 
> P.S> Listening via Centrance Slim
> 
> Edit: To add the instrument placement seems bit odd to me. I have burned these 10 hours and atleast the bass has settles down a little. Maybe it requires more burnin time.




I have the XE800 as well but my pair sounds too sibilant. I can tolerate sibilance as I also own ATH-MSR7 and they can get sibilant on some songs especially with a female vocals. Maybe I didn't burn the XE800 enough or maybe it's my source that's causing it or a QC issue? I tend to not EQ anything and leave things as is. Hmm maybe I should revisit that earphone. Any who I just got to work, so I'll spending the day having a listen to the zs3


----------



## rikk009

maxwelled said:


> I have the XE800 as well but my pair sounds too sibilant. I can tolerate sibilance as I also own ATH-MSR7 and they can get sibilant on some songs especially with a female vocals. Maybe I didn't burn the XE800 enough or maybe it's my source that's causing it or a QC issue? I tend to not EQ anything and leave things as is. Hmm maybe I should revisit that earphone. Any who I just got to work, so I'll spending the day having a listen to the zs3


 
 It's China after all, chances are I might have got fake.


----------



## mochill

rikk009 said:


> mochill said:
> 
> 
> > Burn in the xe800 for 300hrs minimum, they are also tuned differently from gr07 . they are more mid oriented with flat bass and treble.
> ...


had it and also all three version of gr07s


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> And is it a step up in SQ or not? I´m rather underwhelmed by the ZS3 so far.




Nah nothing really changed. My zs3 is collecting dust


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Nah nothing really changed. My zs3 is collecting dust


 

 Thanks. And yes, though I let them burn in for some days now, I just don´t like the sound either.


----------



## vapman

haiku said:


> Thanks. And yes, though I let them burn in for some days now, I just don´t like the sound either.




Not enough bass for me, also i just dont really like IEMs...


----------



## haiku

vapman said:


> Not enough bass for me, also i just dont really like IEMs...


 

 Yeah, the ZS3´s bass is "meh", but I like the ATE´s bass a lot.


----------



## 1clearhead

maxwelled said:


> No final impression yet, and honestly it is due to me having some difficulty finding the right tips with the ZS3. So from looking at my ZS3, it doesn't seem to have a vent hole; therefore when I push them into my ears it feels like I'm pressurizing my ear. I am still unsure if it's the shape of my ear canals or the shape and design of the ZS3 and the length and width of the stem, but it's really weird. And since I don't want to cause any damage, I don't keep them on long enough to even listen through a song and immediately remove them.
> 
> Fortunately, just today I've found a small work around after some experimenting. I'm now using a rubber o-ring before I put the tips in so it pushes the tips out slightly further away from the body of the earphone and further from the tip of the stem. This reduced the pressurized feeling I'm getting but not completely. I'll have a good listen tomorrow when I'm at work.
> 
> ...


 
 Really good to know!.....I'll be ordering a an ATR by next week.


----------



## toddy0191

rikk009 said:


> It's China after all, chances are I might have got fake.




From what you're describing it definitely sounds like it.

Lacking in treble and detail is not the way i would describe the xe800 at all, in fact i would say they are some of their main strengths, mids aside.

They've also got a decent soundstage too and IMO the instrument placement is excellent, particularly on classical music.

The bass definitely opens up with burn in and the treble becomes less harsh as I've A/B'd a well used pair with my new ones and the difference is very noticeable.

I love the xe800s and prefer them to my 4in1s although i rate them highly too.


----------



## sgl54

Pretty close Kz ises .75 as opposed to .78 with only .03 of a diffrence others have had luck using the .78's? The standard Zst cable has a bend that angles angles up and over the ear.


----------



## Ruben123

sgl54 said:


> Pretty close Kz ises .75 as opposed to .78 with only .03 of a diffrence others have had luck using the .78's? The standard Zst cable has a bend that angles angles up and over the ear.


 

 Good to see you back Scott!!


----------



## sgl54

Thanks Ruben, elderly parents with health issues, unfortunately comes to us all.
 Grabed the Zst ( first of the new gens ) about a week ago. Not as impressive as it should or could be. Thought I'd try some upgrade cables to see of they'll make a difference.


----------



## astralmind

Just received my Tennmak Dulcimer from GB at their ridiculous low price. Got screwed on the duty fees thanks to DHL but that's my own mistake/childish can't wait problem 
  
 I have to say, while their build quality and comfort is definitely not as nice as the ATE or ZS3 they have a much more balanced, neutral, natural sound signature - much much closer to my RHA 750. To me that equals better SQ. Soundstage might not be as spatially wide as the ATE but probably more 'honest' if that makes any sense..
  
 At a similar price, I'd have a very hard time recommending the KZ over the Tennmak. Quite an interesting world out there in terms of lesser known chinese brand, can't wait to hear what they've got coming next!


----------



## Vidal

astralmind said:


> Just received my Tennmak Dulcimer from GB at their ridiculous low price. Got screwed on the duty fees thanks to DHL but that's my own mistake/childish can't wait problem
> 
> I have to say, while their build quality and comfort is definitely not as nice as the ATE or ZS3 they have a much more balanced, neutral, natural sound signature - much much closer to my RHA 750. To me that equals better SQ. Soundstage might not be as spatially wide as the ATE but probably more 'honest' if that makes any sense..
> 
> At a similar price, I'd have a very hard time recommending the KZ over the Tennmak. Quite an interesting world out there in terms of lesser known chinese brand, can't wait to hear what they've got coming next!


 
  
 Dulcimer balanced?
  
 I've not heard many earphones with the same amount of bass as the Dulcimer/Banjos. They're like having a subwoofer on each side of your head. Don't get me wrong they do all the other bits well but they have massive bass as well.


----------



## astralmind

vidal said:


> Dulcimer balanced?
> 
> I've not heard many earphones with the same amount of bass as the Dulcimer/Banjos. They're like having a subwoofer on each side of your head. Don't get me wrong they do all the other bits well but they have massive bass as well.


 
 Maybe my ATE or Dulcimer are 'off' or my hearing sucks more than I thought but that is the impression I definitely got. Mind you, it was a short listen but the ATE sounded darker, warmer and more 'colored' and as a result, the bass felt more omnipresent (maybe not bass but lower frequencies ? not sub bass ) and masked the highs slightly. 
  
 Either way, I still think they both are ridiculously nice for the price tag they command.
  
 edit: one description that comes to mind is that the ATEs remind me to some extent of that old amp my father used to have with the analogue loudness switch on it. Flicking it on made the sound heavier and muffled. The ATE don't sound 'bad' like that but do have a bit of that loudness taste that I don't hear in the Tennmak


----------



## Vidal

astralmind said:


> Maybe my ATE or Dulcimer are 'off' or my hearing sucks more than I thought but that is the impression I definitely got. Mind you, it was a short listen but the ATE sounded darker, warmer and more 'colored' and as a result, the bass felt more omnipresent (maybe not bass but lower frequencies ? not sub bass ) and masked the highs slightly.
> 
> Either way, I still think they both are ridiculously nice for the price tag they command.
> 
> edit: one description that comes to mind is that the ATEs remind me to some extent of that old amp my father used to have with the analogue loudness switch on it. Flicking it on made the sound heavier and muffled. The ATE don't sound 'bad' like that but do have a bit of that loudness taste that I don't hear in the Tennmak


 
  
 I like the Dulcimer/Banjo and at that price they're a steal. Maybe you need a better seal in the ears, I'm using foams.


----------



## astralmind

vidal said:


> I like the Dulcimer/Banjo and at that price they're a steal. Maybe you need a better seal in the ears, I'm using foams.


 
 Don't get me wrong, they give out plenty of bass  I just think they actually sound better than the ATE (might not be the best thread to bring this up lol)


----------



## jbusuego

Does the diameter of the nozzle of ZST and ZS3 the same? I owned the ZS3 and is thinking of buying the ZST also, much appreciated


----------



## Vidal

jbusuego said:


> Does the diameter of the nozzle of ZST and ZS3 the same? I owned the ZS3 and is thinking of buying the ZST also, much appreciated


 
  
 Not sure if they're exactly the same but I use the same diameter foam tips on both


----------



## Comebackboy

sgl54 said:


> Pretty close Kz ises .75 as opposed to .78 with only .03 of a diffrence others have had luck using the .78's? The standard Zst cable has a bend that angles angles up and over the ear.


 
 Can't fit my friend's rhapsodio cable into the ZSTs. This means I can't order a cable online without trying it on the zst first right. Sigh.


----------



## Nachash

maxwelled said:


> No final impression yet, and honestly it is due to me having some difficulty finding the right tips with the ZS3. So from looking at my ZS3, it doesn't seem to have a vent hole; therefore when I push them into my ears it feels like I'm pressurizing my ear. I am still unsure if it's the shape of my ear canals or the shape and design of the ZS3 and the length and width of the stem, but it's really weird. And since I don't want to cause any damage, I don't keep them on long enough to even listen through a song and immediately remove them.


 
 Having the same issue, can you post a picture of the vent holes? I keep having that vacuum thing on my right ear as well


----------



## CoiL

Oh my... KZ having QC issues again...


----------



## MuZo2

ZS3 has vent holes inside


----------



## ratex

Is the KZ ATE ATR wire up fitment only? Or can I wear them with wires down as well?
 I hate cables around my ears since I also wear glasses


----------



## B9Scrambler

ratex said:


> Is the KZ ATE ATR wire up fitment only? Or can I wear them with wires down as well?
> I hate cables around my ears since I also wear glasses


 
  
 They can be worn cable down but it's pretty awkward and not ideal. I too wear glasses and don't find cable up use to be an issue with them. Primary reason being a lack of memory wire. The cable is also somewhat thin above the y-split so it really doesn't interfere much.


----------



## ratex

b9scrambler said:


> They can be worn cable down but it's pretty awkward and not ideal. I too wear glasses and don't find cable up use to be an issue with them. Primary reason being a lack of memory wire. The cable is also somewhat thin above the y-split so it really doesn't interfere much.


 
 Thanks! In that case, is ED9 a good replacement for ATE ATR?
 I really don't like over the ear cables =(


----------



## B9Scrambler

ratex said:


> Thanks! In that case, is ED9 a good replacement for ATE ATR?
> I really don't like over the ear cables =(


 
  
 You are welcome. I'm not really the best one to answer that question since the ED9 and I have an inconsistent relationship, but the answer is probably yes, haha.


----------



## sgl54

It probably a little hit or miss getting a good fit, depending on how flexible the material the cables ( male ) pins are mounted. I imagine the quality of the fitting they use make a difference as well with mmcx I have some very snug some not, these may end up being the same. I ordered an upgrade cable for the Zst from **** known as E E or easy earphones ( Aliexpress) should be here in a week. It will be interesting to see how they fit as well as any change in sound.


----------



## rikk009

toddy0191 said:


> From what you're describing it definitely sounds like it.
> 
> Lacking in treble and detail is not the way i would describe the xe800 at all, in fact i would say they are some of their main strengths, mids aside.
> 
> ...


 
 Do they return on grounds that 'these are fake'. That's hard to prove too.


----------



## mebaali

rikk009 said:


> Do they return on grounds that 'these are fake'. That's hard to prove too.


 
 Which seller from AliEx you got them and what price for ?
  
 From what I have read (of impressions of recent buyers of XE800) those who bought these for the prices between 18 (pricing in the last month or so) to 27 US$ (during July 2016) from certain sellers of AliEx, seems to have got similar sounding IEMs (can't say if they are genuine ones that were selling for between 50 to 100 US$, a year ago) that are brighter sounding and lean on bass.


----------



## rikk009

mebaali said:


> Which seller from AliEx you got them and what price for ?
> 
> From what I have read (of impressions of recent buyers of XE800) those who bought these for the prices between 18 (pricing in the last month or so) to 27 US$ (during July 2016) from certain sellers of AliEx, seems to have got similar sounding IEMs (can't say if they are genuine ones that were selling for between 50 to 100 US$, a year ago) that are brighter sounding and lean on bass.


 
 Store:Shenzhen XiaoYu Trade Com.. Ltd
  
 Others has posted this seller to be genuine


----------



## mebaali

rikk009 said:


> Store:
> Shenzhen XiaoYu Trade Com.. Ltd
> 
> 
> Others has posted this seller to be genuine




In that case, the most likely reason for your phones sounding vastly different from the rest (read as recent buyers) could be due to a QC issue.

Sorry for the OT fellows!


----------



## louiedog

I really like the way my ATE-S sound but they aren't very pocketable due to the memory wire. I want a new pair of in-ears for walking around town that I can slip into my pocket without crushing the wire and having it be really uncomfortable when I put them back on unless I spend 2 minutes adjusting. I was interested in the regular ATE or the ATR but that feels boring considering I've already got my ATE-S. 
  
 I was thinking about one of the KZ mini models if I'm going pocketable -- the mini bamboo ED7, HDS1, or HDS3. Is there a significant quality difference between any of those, or does one have a similar sound profile to my ATE-S?


----------



## Brian Coffey

louiedog said:


> I really like the way my ATE-S sound but they aren't very pocketable due to the memory wire. I want a new pair of in-ears for walking around town that I can slip into my pocket without crushing the wire and having it be really uncomfortable when I put them back on unless I spend 2 minutes adjusting. I was interested in the regular ATE or the ATR but that feels boring considering I've already got my ATE-S.
> 
> I was thinking about one of the KZ mini models if I'm going pocketable -- the mini bamboo ED7, HDS1, or HDS3. Is there a significant quality difference between any of those, or does one have a similar sound profile to my ATE-S?


 
 I think the HDS1s are pretty neutral myself but haven't heard the others. I have the ATE none S model and they have more bass than the HDS1.


----------



## RvTrav

Received KZ HD9s today.  Haven't spent a lot of time with them yet but thought I would give some of my first impressions.  The cable is exactly the same as the one on the ATR.  The body of the earphone is slightly different and the nozzle is longer.  The largest ear tip is smaller than the large on the ATR.  This makes sense since the HD9 fits deeper into the ear canal.  As far as the sound of the HD9, 2 things stand out.  In my opinion, the mids are more forward on the HD9 than on the ATR and the base on the HD9 is tighter and seems to provide a little more impact.  For me both provide a comfortable fit.  I think I am going to really like the HD9 and since I paid $5 us. I think I got a great deal as well.


----------



## nakedtoes

Getting mine zs3 anytime soon.. Can't wait to listen to them


----------



## ustinj

vapman said:


> Not enough bass for me, also i just dont really like IEMs...



I'll take em for $5


----------



## maxwelled

I received my KZ upgraded cables today for both the ZST and the ZS3, keep in mind that they're different from each other. 

I just got a new found respect for the KZ ZST. I don't understand why KZ didn't just offer it with the upgraded cable to begin with, the ZST should've sounded like it does now with the upgrade cable out of the box. At the moment, if you buy the ZST and then get the upgrade cable it'll cost more or close to the 4in1 and that's unfortunate. 

Here are the changes: the veil did get cleared up, mids are clearer, no longer muddy, and the 'grainy' sound is gone. Omg theres finally sound stage and imaging is finally present. [Used Yosi Horikawa Vapor album and I couldn't stop listening to it] The sound signature also moved over more towards neutral than before(it used to be warm and bass heavy), but it is still definitely warmer than the 4in1. It definitely lost some of the bass that was overpowering the mids/highs and the vocals - and that's a pleasant change because it made the separation clear.

Just got home from a long day at work and I'm a bit exhausted so I'm sorry if I'm all over the place but I really just wanted to post about this.

Now I have an option to choose from when it comes to whether I want to listen to a more cooler sound signature or warmer. I can definitely see people who tend to think 4in1 is too bright to opt for this ZST with upgraded cable. I haven't had a listen to the ZS3 with the upgraded cable because I can't seem to put down the ZST right now  - so it'll have to wait until tomorrow. I'll also post pics!


----------



## Ruben123

rvtrav said:


> Received KZ HD9s today.  Haven't spent a lot of time with them yet but thought I would give some of my first impressions.  The cable is exactly the same as the one on the ATR.  The body of the earphone is slightly different and the nozzle is longer.  The largest ear tip is smaller than the large on the ATR.  This makes sense since the HD9 fits deeper into the ear canal.  As far as the sound of the HD9, 2 things stand out.  In my opinion, the mids are more forward on the HD9 than on the ATR and the base on the HD9 is tighter and seems to provide a little more impact.  For me both provide a comfortable fit.  I think I am going to really like the HD9 and since I paid $5 us. I think I got a great deal as well.




Are you really sure it's a real KZ? I haven't seen much of any info about them, no real photos, no KZ logos... So I got an Atr instead


----------



## maxwelled

ruben123 said:


> Are you really sure it's a real KZ? I haven't seen much of any info about them, no real photos, no KZ logos... So I got an Atr instead




They're on the official AlieExpress flagship store for KZ. I haven't heard much about them also but they are sold by KZ themselves so they do exist, I just don't think anyone has tried them out yet and he'll be the first..maybe?


----------



## Ruben123

maxwelled said:


> They're on the official AlieExpress flagship store for KZ. I haven't heard much about them also but they are sold by KZ themselves so they do exist, I just don't think anyone has tried them out yet and he'll be the first..maybe?



Thanks. When I looked at the official store few weeks back I didn't find it so I thought it was sort of a fake brand (qkz?) trying to sell KZ look a likes.


----------



## dilidani

For the guy considering ed7 mini.. Don't buy it. Sound is OK, but nozzle is so narrow that its hard to use wide bore tips on it, at least I was able to find only one tip from my collection.


----------



## haiku

I bought me some comply T200 tips. Let´s see if they can bring the ZS3 to life at last......


----------



## Comebackboy

Anyone have any suggestions for cable options for the ZST? Currently have the silver plated cable but the lack of a memory wire is irritating me.


----------



## Ruben123

maxwelled said:


> I received my KZ upgraded cables today for both the ZST and the ZS3, keep in mind that they're different from each other.
> 
> I just got a new found respect for the KZ ZST. I don't understand why KZ didn't just offer it with the upgraded cable to begin with, the ZST should've sounded like it does now with the upgrade cable out of the box. At the moment, if you buy the ZST and then get the upgrade cable it'll cost more or close to the 4in1 and that's unfortunate.
> 
> ...


 I'm sorry to say but unless the standard cable is broken, another cable isn't going to make an earphone to sound THAT different.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> I received my KZ upgraded cables today for both the ZST and the ZS3, keep in mind that they're different from each other.
> 
> I just got a new found respect for the KZ ZST. I don't understand why KZ didn't just offer it with the upgraded cable to begin with, the ZST should've sounded like it does now with the upgrade cable out of the box. At the moment, if you buy the ZST and then get the upgrade cable it'll cost more or close to the 4in1 and that's unfortunate.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice! Where did you get the upgrade cables from?


----------



## maxwelled

ruben123 said:


> I'm sorry to say but unless the standard cable is broken, another cable isn't going to make an earphone to sound THAT different.




I would also agree and honestly I'm not that big of a believer with cable upgrades and coming from China, I've received fake 'silver plating' where they were only covered by a silver foil(sigh). However, I do know and have experience difference from copper, silver plated, pure silver etc..each having it's own minimal sound signature changes - ultimately it only matters on the gauge of the wire itself and how it was assembled. I only purchased the upgrade because it was available so I wanted to see if it was going to make any difference. And since KZ themselves made it, it must mean they had checked and tuned it so where it would make a difference. But I was just like you and honestly believed that it wouldn't change much but it did so I don't know what else to say. I don't need you to agree with me but if you are in Los Angeles/Southern California area I would gladly let you listen to them or I'll send you them. Afterall, it is not only I but my girlfriend and friend noticed those differences as well when I had them compare because I was surprised by how it changed. This is a hobby for me, a way to blow money and enjoy it at the same time. I am no professional but my ears do work, and if you have first heard how ZST sounds before and now you'd be surprised too. And of course I will never rule out a QC problem but the original cable was fine, and everyone here also had similar impressions on the ZST sound quality: to sum it up mediocre at best and needs improvement. And now it is far from perfect but it is acceptable. However, it is still inferior to the **** 4in1.




fonkepala said:


> Nice! Where did you get the upgrade cables from?




I got the cables from NiceHCK (ZST - $7.92, ZS3 - $8.81) using the alie phone app gives you a slightly more discount than buying using a pc.


----------



## fonkepala

rikk009 said:


> I said 'modded' Piston 2.1. I hated the stock myself hence modded it. XE800 is not GR07 has pitted by others, that was my point. It has good bass. I took it out again to give you a live impression. Listening to some electronic I get good mid bass as well sub-bass extension but then I have modded my pistons in a very satisfying bass quality. But Pistons which were V-shaped earlier are now very dark sounding now delight for EDM. In contrast, XE800 are somewhat balanced. My initial grudge(and still lingering) might be these where instantly nomenclated as re-branded GR07. Comfort is great on these. But I feel treble and details lacking that's not what impression posted by others. Depth is not great either.
> 
> P.S> Listening via Centrance Slim
> 
> Edit: To add the instrument placement seems bit odd to me. I have burned these 10 hours and atleast the bass has settles down a little. Maybe it requires more burnin time.


 
  
 Thanks for your input on the XE800. As for the Piston 2.1, after reading this post yours I decided to do the backplate mod on mine and now to me it sounds better. Bass is still somewhat too much but I haven't worked up the courage to do the grill mod


----------



## maxwelled

fonkepala said:


> Thanks for your input on the XE800. As for the Piston 2.1, after reading this post yours I decided to do the backplate mod on mine and now to me it sounds better. Bass is still somewhat too much but I haven't worked up the courage to do the grill mod




I've done the mod to remove the foam on the Piston 2.1, I'll show you a picture of the tools and how I did mine. I didn't damage the screen and was able to reuse it. Is that what you're talking about as the grill mod?


----------



## Vidal

maxwelled said:


> I would also agree and honestly I'm not that big of a believer with cable upgrades and coming from China, I've received fake 'silver plating' where they were only covered by a silver foil(sigh). However, I do know and have experience difference from copper, silver plated, pure silver etc - ultimately it only matters on the gauge of the wire itself and how it was assembled. I only purchased the upgrade because it was available so I wanted to see if it was going to make any difference. And since KZ themselves made it, it must mean they had checked and tuned it so where it would make a difference. But I was just like you and honestly believed that it wouldn't change much but it did so I don't know what else to say. I don't need you to agree with me but if you are in Los Angeles/Southern California area I would gladly let you listen to them or I'll send you them. Afterall, it is not only I but my girlfriend and friend noticed those differences as well when I had them compare because I was surprised by how it changed. This is a hobby for me, a way to blow money and enjoy it at the same time. I am no professional but my ears do work, and if you have first heard how ZST sounds before and now you'd be surprised too. And of course I will never rule out a QC problem but the original cable was fine, and everyone here also had similar impressions on the ZST sound quality: to sum it up mediocre at best and needs improvement. And now it is far from perfect but it is acceptable. However, it is still inferior to the **** 4in1.
> I got the cables from NiceHCK (ZST - $7.92, ZS3 - $8.81) using the alie phone app gives you a slightly more discount than buying using a pc.


 
  
  
 I had the same experience with cables, it was actually silver coloured cable covering a internal wire. The outer bits weren't part of the circuit - from the seller who can't be named.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> I've done the mod to remove the foam on the Piston 2.1, I'll show you a picture of the tools and how I did mine. I didn't damage the screen and was able to reuse it. Is that what you're talking about as the grill mod?


 
  
 Yup, that's the one. I pretty much think that once it's done, the grills would be goners and I wouldn't be able to put them on again. Would appreciate your pics and perhaps guideline on how you did it  
  
 In your opinion, is it a worthwhile mod to do? Did they sound better/different after that? 
  
 I only have a pair of the Piston 2.1, and they're rather hard to get where I am, genuine ones anyway. If I had a spare, I'd have no qualms about doing the grill mod.


----------



## maxwelled

fonkepala said:


> Yup, that's the one. I pretty much think that once it's done, the grills would be goners and I wouldn't be able to put them on again. Would appreciate your pics and perhaps guideline on how you did it
> 
> In your opinion, is it a worthwhile mod to do? Did they sound better/different after that?
> 
> I only have a pair of the Piston 2.1, and they're rather hard to get where I am, genuine ones anyway. If I had a spare, I'd have no qualms about doing the grill mod.




They freed up the mids, and made it clearer for me and I did lose some of the bass. My sound preference leans more towards colder side, so I don't like overly warm and bass heavy iem/cans. I won't be able to give you a picture of step by step but I will send pics to demonstrate how I did it by showing what tools, and how to open the grill without mangling it. It's fairly simple, much easier than my previous hobby of modding watches. Which reminds me, I used a pointed tweezer used for watch movement assembly. Hopefully you have one or you can purchase it fairly cheap, it comes in handy a lot for many uses so it's good to just have.

Edit: so many typos, had a bit too much wine and it's late haha.

I'll take the pics in a few hours and send it in PM.


----------



## RvTrav

​The HD9s I received came in the same new KZ packaging that my ATR came in.  The only difference is the HD9 box also has both Chinese and English on it.


----------



## fonkepala

maxwelled said:


> They freed up the mids, and made it clearer for me and I did lose some of the bass. My sound preference leans more towards colder side, so I don't like overly warm and bass heavy iem/cans. I won't be able to give you a picture of step by step but I will send pics to demonstrate how I did it by showing what tools, and how to open the grill without mangling it. It's fairly simple, much easier than my previous hobby of modding watches. Which reminds me, I used a pointed tweezer used for watch movement assembly. Hopefully you have one or you can purchase it fairly cheap, it comes in handy a lot for many uses so it's good to just have.
> 
> Edit: so many typos, had a bit too much wine and it's late haha.
> 
> I'll take the pics in a few hours and send it in PM.


 
  
 Ok, thanks! Let's continue this via PM.


----------



## ratex

Just bought my ED9! 
 How is ED9 compared to Piston 3 and Rock Zircon Nano?


----------



## Aradea

maxwelled said:


> I would also agree and honestly I'm not that big of a believer with cable upgrades and coming from China, I've received fake 'silver plating' where they were only covered by a silver foil(sigh). However, I do know and have experience difference from copper, silver plated, pure silver etc..each having it's own minimal sound signature changes - ultimately it only matters on the gauge of the wire itself and how it was assembled. I only purchased the upgrade because it was available so I wanted to see if it was going to make any difference. And since KZ themselves made it, it must mean they had checked and tuned it so where it would make a difference. But I was just like you and honestly believed that it wouldn't change much but it did so I don't know what else to say. I don't need you to agree with me but if you are in Los Angeles/Southern California area I would gladly let you listen to them or I'll send you them. Afterall, it is not only I but my girlfriend and friend noticed those differences as well when I had them compare because I was surprised by how it changed. This is a hobby for me, a way to blow money and enjoy it at the same time. I am no professional but my ears do work, and if you have first heard how ZST sounds before and now you'd be surprised too. And of course I will never rule out a QC problem but the original cable was fine, and everyone here also had similar impressions on the ZST sound quality: to sum it up mediocre at best and needs improvement. And now it is far from perfect but it is acceptable. However, it is still inferior to the **** 4in1.
> I got the cables from NiceHCK (ZST - $7.92, ZS3 - $8.81) using the alie phone app gives you a slightly more discount than buying using a pc.



Can you post a picture of the ZST upgrade cable?


----------



## rockingthearies

So I received my ZS3s today (like finally) I have been using my earpods for around 1.5 years I have no idea but when I played ONE OK ROCK- The Beginning The earpods gave me a much more "alive" feel whereas the ZS3s feels "dead" so I feel alittle bit disappointed. The soundstage of the ZS3 is definitely larger than my earpods and the ZS3 bass is so much better than the earpods all this I could really appreciate but there is no feel to the music. Is this what people meant by dark and bright sounding iems? I am going to burn them in and hopefully it does help. Could this be a qc problem? I got the glossy KZ ZS3 fitted with JVC Spiral Dot tips.


----------



## haiku

rockingthearies said:


> So I received my ZS3s today (like finally) I have been using my earpods for around 1.5 years I have no idea but when I played ONE OK ROCK- The Beginning The earpods gave me a much more "alive" feel whereas the ZS3s feels "dead" so I feel alittle bit disappointed. The soundstage of the ZS3 is definitely larger than my earpods and the ZS3 bass is so much better than the earpods all this I could really appreciate but there is no feel to the music. Is this what people meant by dark and bright sounding iems? I am going to burn them in and hopefully it does help. Could this be a qc problem? I got the glossy KZ ZS3 fitted with JVC Spiral Dot tips.


 

 Unfortunately, that´s how they sound here, too. So it´s rather unlikely it´s a qc problem. Maybe get the ATE´s instead.


----------



## Ruben123

haiku said:


> Unfortunately, that´s how they sound here, too. So it´s rather unlikely it´s a qc problem. Maybe get the ATE´s instead.


 

 Not get an ATE for "earpods" sound.
  
  


rockingthearies said:


> So I received my ZS3s today (like finally) I have been using my earpods for around 1.5 years I have no idea but when I played ONE OK ROCK- The Beginning The earpods gave me a much more "alive" feel whereas the ZS3s feels "dead" so I feel alittle bit disappointed. The soundstage of the ZS3 is definitely larger than my earpods and the ZS3 bass is so much better than the earpods all this I could really appreciate but there is no feel to the music. Is this what people meant by dark and bright sounding iems? I am going to burn them in and hopefully it does help. Could this be a qc problem? I got the glossy KZ ZS3 fitted with JVC Spiral Dot tips.


 
  
 Due to another sound signature, you hear the music different than you have until now. I would say the ZS3s are better, but are different too. If you are after a more "energetic" or "engaging" sound, you should look elsewhere indeed. The ZS3 is meant to sound rather dark. For some excellent energetic sound @B9Scrambler would be kind to advise you the KZ ED3 Perfection, EDR2 or ED9. And so would I.


----------



## Majin

ruben123 said:


> Not get an ATE for "earpods" sound.
> 
> 
> 
> Due to another sound signature, you hear the music different than you have until now. I would say the ZS3s are better, but are different too. If you are after a more "energetic" or "engaging" sound, you should look elsewhere indeed. The ZS3 is meant to sound rather dark. For some excellent energetic sound @B9Scrambler would be kind to advise you the KZ ED3 Perfection, EDR2 or ED9. And so would I.


 
  
 If you are looking for energetic sound i would stay away from the ED9. I've went from my ED9 to Monk plus and it makes the ED9 sound really flat. I prolly won't be looking into the KZ IEMs since I got the Monk plus. From memory the KZ ZN1 with amp would be the sound sig he is looking for but they are up in price for $70 instead of $20.


----------



## Ruben123

majin said:


> If you are looking for energetic sound i would stay away from the ED9. I've went from my ED9 to Monk plus and it makes the ED9 sound really flat. I prolly won't be looking into the KZ IEMs since I got the Monk plus. From memory the KZ ZN1 with amp would be the sound sig he is looking for but they are up in price for $70 instead of $20.


 

 And the golden filters, dont you find them energetic?


----------



## Majin

ruben123 said:


> And the golden filters, dont you find them energetic?


 
  
 With golden filters they have bloated bass and reduced clarity. I was almost shocked how bad they sound but god bless the brass filters that made them my go to cheapo IEM for 1,5 year.
  
 Owyeah and I came from the Sony MH1C back then which is already a bass heavy IEM.


----------



## vegetaleb

So finally the ZS3 are too bassy a la ATES or its bass is neutral? I don't want iem with such bass as the ATES, the bumping bass stretched my internal ears in a way I had ''water drops like sound'' for couple of days, I had to totally stop listening to iems for 2 weeks to fix my ears


----------



## haiku

vegetaleb said:


> So finally the ZS3 are too bassy a la ATES or its bass is neutral? I don't want iem with such bass as the ATES, the bumping bass stretched my internal ears in a way I had ''water drops like sound'' for couple of days, I had to totally stop listening to iems for 2 weeks to fix my ears


 

 For real?!! Ok, well, the bass of the ZS3 doesn´t have the punch and the subbass of the ATE´s, but I would say it´s also far from being neutral....


----------



## louiedog

brian coffey said:


> I think the HDS1s are pretty neutral myself but haven't heard the others. I have the ATE none S model and they have more bass than the HDS1.


 
  
  


dilidani said:


> For the guy considering ed7 mini.. Don't buy it. Sound is OK, but nozzle is so narrow that its hard to use wide bore tips on it, at least I was able to find only one tip from my collection.


 
  
 Thanks, I'll take this into consideration.


----------



## pashhtk27

rockingthearies said:


> So I received my ZS3s today (like finally) I have been using my earpods for around 1.5 years I have no idea but when I played ONE OK ROCK- The Beginning The earpods gave me a much more "alive" feel whereas the ZS3s feels "dead" so I feel alittle bit disappointed. The soundstage of the ZS3 is definitely larger than my earpods and the ZS3 bass is so much better than the earpods all this I could really appreciate but there is no feel to the music. Is this what people meant by dark and bright sounding iems? I am going to burn them in and hopefully it does help. Could this be a qc problem? I got the glossy KZ ZS3 fitted with JVC Spiral Dot tips.


 

 Japanese music sounds good with neutral to bright gear, with non-recessed mids/vocals. I can't listen to any track with darker earphones. ZS-series is definitely not meant for that purpose. Try the energetic ED-series; I have the ed3c and they sound quite good with one ok rock, energetic and fun.


----------



## chaiyuta

maxwelled said:


> I received my KZ upgraded cables today for both the ZST and the ZS3, keep in mind that they're different from each other.
> 
> I just got a new found respect for the KZ ZST. I don't understand why KZ didn't just offer it with the upgraded cable to begin with, the ZST should've sounded like it does now with the upgrade cable out of the box. At the moment, if you buy the ZST and then get the upgrade cable it'll cost more or close to the 4in1 and that's unfortunate.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It seems that not only me feel good once changing to silver-plated cable and taking burn-in ~30hours. If you have a chance to try ZST with Dragonfly black 1.5. Let's try. For me, it's good matching.


----------



## chaiyuta

comebackboy said:


> Anyone have any suggestions for cable options for the ZST? Currently have the silver plated cable but the lack of a memory wire is irritating me.


 
  
 I am using Brimar Quantum SXC cable. It has memory wire. I recommend cable brand likes Brimar or Effect Audio. All of them come with memory wire.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

So sort of made my KZ ATE open back. May do a more permanent mod when I get home. Detail and sound stage is impressive. Bass still punches and rumbles nicely


----------



## rockingthearies

Thanks all for your suggestions and replies! What song genres should I pair with the ZS3?


----------



## rockingthearies

After further listening after an 8 hour burn in, while the treble is still recessed causing vocals in some songs to be a little bit "dark". The separation in the ZS3 are amazing, I could hear the bass, the drumset, cymbals etc I am truly amazed. The bass to me is not too strong until its painful but its accurate and punchy. I will probably get another bright sounding iem or earbud for other songs


----------



## Redcarmoose

newwaveaudio said:


> So sort of made my KZ ATE open back. May do a more permanent mod when I get home. Detail and sound stage is impressive. Bass still punches and rumbles nicely




That will be amazing when your done. I was surprised to see a a couple pictures of others making the ATE open-back on line. 

If I could, the other ways to get soundstage is to change upstream gear. Somehow the ATE has the ability to grow a different soundstage with other amps, cables and DACs. 

Using the ATE is maybe my favorite with an old iPhone, still it was uncanny how much they change with tube amps or home DACs.

Still in the end, no EQ or amp is going to fully do the change character of the physicality of the IEM. The physical properties of the headphone or IEM can not be changed with upstream gear. Thus you maybe could enhance your experience even further using different DACs and amps with the open-back custom IEM?


----------



## Ruben123

rockingthearies said:


> Thanks all for your suggestions and replies! What song genres should I pair with the ZS3?




For starters, genres you like. I've listened all from Bach to Leonard Cohen with them and liked enormously what I heard.


----------



## haiku

After 1 week of breaking in the ATE S, I can say if you think the bass of the ATE is already too much for you to take, then don´t even bother with getting the ATE S. Though the bass has better control, it is "massaging" the eardrums even more than the ATE. I love it!


----------



## Vidal

chaiyuta said:


> I am using Brimar Quantum SXC cable. It has memory wire. I recommend cable brand likes Brimar or Effect Audio. All of them come with memory wire.


 
  
  
 That cable doesn't have memory wire, not to mention the fact that it's £110. Why would anyone spend £110 on a cable, that would offer minimal improvements, to use with a £12 IEM?


----------



## Redcarmoose

vidal said:


> That cable doesn't have memory wire, not to mention the fact that it's £110. Why would anyone spend £110 on a cable, that would offer minimal improvements, to use with a £12 IEM?




Because sound quality results are not determined by price. A $12 could sound better than $100 IEM. That same IEM could offer dramatic improvement with a different cable. 

Many argue the effects of cables. But in my experience silver is brighter and copper warmer. Putting different cables in the stream can help fine tune a desired sound signature. You can add treble or reduce bass depending on a cable used and the effects are different than what can be obtained with simple EQ.

Many of us have $100-$1000 headphones but rather listen to $8 KZ IEMs, and I have no idea why except they offer a charming way to hear music?


----------



## Degree

Which model do you guys recommend for listening to chill trap (example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQeQepATL_c). 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Vidal

redcarmoose said:


> Because price does not adequate sound quality. A $12 could sound better than $100 IEM. That same IEM could offer dramatic improvement with a different cable.
> 
> Many argue the effects of cables. But in my experience silver is brighter and copper warmer. Putting different cables in the stream can help fine tune a desired sound signature. You can add treble or reduce bass depending on a cable used and the effects are different than what can be obtained with simple EQ.


 
  
 Without getting into the whole does a high end cable improve sound piece as that's off topic. (I'm in the slight improvement if any camp and I used to make my own with seriously high end parts)
  
 My comments are in the overall context of his advice, and the daft logic behind it. There's a lot of comments about the ZST being 'off'. So he's suggesting a £110 instead of maybe buying 4 other Chinese IEM which might be better suited to the end user.
  
 So 1 cable instead of: -
  
 **** UEs
 BK50
 Urbanfun
 XE800
  
 Or 
  
 KZ ATE
 VE Monk+
 Havi Pro
 Tenmak Pro


----------



## Ruben123

redcarmoose said:


> Because sound quality results are not determined by price. A $12 could sound better than $100 IEM. That same IEM could offer dramatic improvement with a different cable.
> 
> Many argue the effects of cables. But in my experience silver is brighter and copper warmer. Putting different cables in the stream can help fine tune a desired sound signature. You can add treble or reduce bass depending on a cable used and the effects are different than what can be obtained with simple EQ.
> 
> Many of us have $100-$1000 headphones but rather listen to $8 KZ IEMs, and I have no idea why except they offer a charming way to hear music?




Have you ever thought about the possibility that, because copper looks warm, your brain adjusts the sound you hear to sound warm, and that silver, which looks cold/bright, makes you perceive the sound as brighter? Most (most) cable differences come down to this simple fact and even then, replacing a good cable off a $8 in ear with a $100 one is quite, well, ridiculous


----------



## chaiyuta

vidal said:


> That cable doesn't have memory wire, not to mention the fact that it's £110. Why would anyone spend £110 on a cable, that would offer minimal improvements, to use with a £12 IEM?


 
  


> vidal said:
> 
> 
> > Without getting into the whole does a high end cable improve sound piece as that's off topic. (I'm in the slight improvement if any camp and I used to make my own with seriously high end parts)
> ...


 
  
 I'm quite not sure about recent cables, however my Brimar Quantum SXC cable (obsolete model) has memory wire. (Please see picture below)
**Updated :* I just checked their official website (both Brimar and Effect Audio). It seems that some models they come with memory wire and some is not. Sorry about that.
  
  
  
 By the way, My suggestion is a reply for Comebackboy. I always respect one's belief. Also, I just told that I use that cable whilst I suggested only company brands. Comebackboy did not ask for which iem he should buy instead. Refer to Monk+, I always see many guys tried to mod theirs by changing with pricey cables a lot. Are they daft? or You are narrow-minded? I am a guy that never look down low price iems or hate high price iems. For me, Customize is fun. The 2 pin interface ever named "custom connector". That means they let you freely customize their cables. My suggestion is for who ask me or having belief "cable change sound change" or guy who do not bias on high-low price of iem, cables, etc.


----------



## Sylmar

redcarmoose said:


> Many of us have $100-$1000 headphones but rather listen to $8 KZ IEMs, and I have no idea why except they offer a charming way to hear music?


 
 Although I never had IEM's that expensive I've had Hifiman RE400 and Eytomotic HF5 and the likes but I still come back to KZ IEM's for something I just can't put my finger on yet. I've read people claim they have a analogue kind of sound. Could be that but outside of the occasional dud these are usually very enjoyable and uncomplicated. I'm glad the KZ brand exists.


----------



## Redcarmoose

ruben123 said:


> Have you ever thought about the possibility that, because copper looks warm, your brain adjusts the sound you hear to sound warm, and that silver, which looks cold/bright, makes you perceive the sound as brighter? Most (most) cable differences come down to this simple fact and even then, replacing a good cable off a $8 in ear with a $100 one is quite, well, ridiculous




I totally agree with placebo. Believe me my days on top the soap box ended years ago. Perception is a funny thing. My story though starts with me waiting years to try expensive cables. It's not that I ever gave them too much concern. But my friend gave me some super pricey solid silver RCA interconnects to try the day a big amp arrived at my house. I just wanted to hear the new amp with all it's glory. 

To make a long story short. The amp and headphones were both on the thin side and the silver interconnects boosted the thin sound even more. At the time in this hobby I had no idea that cables could do such magic. In short I went back to using my $15 Monster interconnects and the copper made the signature warmer. The silver just had too much energy in the treble. 

Plus remember it's not just me but many believe in the copper-warm, silver-bright thing. I really don't care how it all works. Still THERE is a lot of overpriced and fake stuff in audio. I agree too that it's the last bit of tweeks to get into when everything else is done. 

That said, price means nothing in many ways in audio. We have people using old $75 cartridges on there phonographs, people using $5 IEMs, people using old $100 speakers. This hobby is at times about spending money, but other times it's just about exploring the possibilities of what stuff sounds like with an open mind.


----------



## ratex

ratex said:


> Just bought my ED9!
> How is ED9 compared to Piston 3 and Rock Zircon Nano?


 
 Anyone?


----------



## Redcarmoose

ruben123 said:


> Have you ever thought about the possibility that, because copper looks warm, your brain adjusts the sound you hear to sound warm, and that silver, which looks cold/bright, makes you perceive the sound as brighter? Most (most) cable differences come down to this simple fact and even then, replacing a good cable off a $8 in ear with a $100 one is quite, well, ridiculous




The amazing thing for me is the fact that I love these KZ $10 IEMs. The original mindset here is that you have to spend at least $75 to get enjoyable IEMs and the rest sound like a free-with-a-phone IEM. 

I guarantee there are whole groups of members which refuse to even try KZs because they just don't think cheap IEMs would sound that great. I totally agree that we all took risks of getting a bad pair due to simple quality control issues, but after getting around the price, they all sound pretty good. 

That said, placebo is a strong thing. If someone handed you a super expensive IEM you would look at it different as maybe it's so good that they charge a hundred dollars for it.

I simply think KZ does put a lot of technology into their products but sell so many they make money due to volume. China has the internal population of Southern California's density spread from California to New York. Just a huge market to buy the IEMs.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

Red line is with open back on KZ ATE the green one is closed


----------



## dilidani

guys, ATE vs ATR vs ATE-S? For electronic music, thanks!


----------



## Sylmar

KZ ATR for me definitely. Listening to Boards of Canada on my ATR's as I type this.


----------



## Ira Delphic

redcarmoose said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you ever thought about the possibility that, because copper looks warm, your brain adjusts the sound you hear to sound warm, and that silver, which looks cold/bright, makes you perceive the sound as brighter? Most (most) cable differences come down to this simple fact and even then, replacing a good cable off a $8 in ear with a $100 one is quite, well, ridiculous
> ...


 
  
  An issue with low cost earphones is quality control. You can't do much QC when it sells for $10 or so. And do later copies have the same sound, tuning, and drivers as the earlier ones? If you get an HD9 will it be the same as when it first came out. It can be disappointing to get a dud - channel imbalance etc but even that can happen with anything.


----------



## pashhtk27

ruben123 said:


> Have you ever thought about the possibility that, because copper looks warm, your brain adjusts the sound you hear to sound warm, and that silver, which looks cold/bright, makes you perceive the sound as brighter? Most (most) cable differences come down to this simple fact and even then, replacing a good cable off a $8 in ear with a $100 one is quite, well, ridiculous
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Gawd, I ordered **** 4in1 in silver with blue cable! Guess I'll perceive the sound as the brightest. xD
  
 And while I don't believe cable material makes a significant difference, I think the jack does. I suffer from jack problems everyday as my headphone out on the smartphone is a bit wonky. 

 Put HD9 on my wishlist. Maybe I'll order them next time I buy something, when I have the money that is.


----------



## Vidal

> By the way, My suggestion is a reply for Comebackboy. I always respect one's belief. Also, I just told that I use that cable whilst I suggested only company brands. Comebackboy did not ask for which iem he should buy instead. Refer to Monk+, I always see many guys tried to mod theirs by changing with pricey cables a lot. Are they daft? or You are narrow-minded? I am a guy that never look down low price iems or hate high price iems. For me, Customize is fun. The 2 pin interface ever named "custom connector". That means they let you freely customize their cables. My suggestion is for who ask me or having belief "cable change sound change" or guy who do not bias on high-low price of iem, cables, etc.


 
  
 I'm not narrowed minded when it comes to customisation, in fact quite the opposite as the pictures below will show.
  
 If an IEM is fundamentally flawed you can't dramatically change it with a cable, the effect of any cable is subtle in the extreme. As it happens I don't mind the ZST but I've a soft spot for KZ so I'll forgive a little unruliness in the mid range, sticking a different cable on it isn't going to change that. 
  
 Project 1 - completed. RHA 750 with shortened silver plated re-cable, along with my direct connection cable for a Fiio K1 as the cable splitter. Shortens the analogue signal path by moving the DAC further down the chain. 
  

  
 Project 2. Aluminium rebodied grados, with bluetooth 4.1 chip,
 Project 3 is a carbon fibre version with Takstar drivers (currently)
  

  
 Project 4. Lightning connection (Apple iPhone 7) with soon to be rebodied Ty HI Z 32s
  

  
 Off topic I know


----------



## Comebackboy

vidal said:


> I'm not narrowed minded when it comes to customisation, in fact quite the opposite as the pictures below will show.
> 
> If an IEM is fundamentally flawed you can't dramatically change it with a cable, the effect of any cable is subtle in the extreme. As it happens I don't mind the ZST but I've a soft spot for KZ so I'll forgive a little unruliness in the mid range, sticking a different cable on it isn't going to change that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yooo guys chill I was just asking to see if anyone tried other cables with the ZST. I gotta say that cables do make a difference, but it definitely can't save a fundamentally flawed iem. And placebo, yes I think to some extent that's true as well but I only changed from the stock to the silver cable (which is really cheap as well) and there was definitely an improvement in sound. Not sure about the science behind it but I guess sometimes certain earphones and cables work together.
  
 And yes, I really like the ZSTs so I probably won't be getting another IEM anytime soon (though I am considering the **** 4in1 and maybe the ZS3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) that's why I'm asking if there are any cable options, purely because I just wanted to have a few upgrade/customisation options, considering the limited range of cables that can be used with the ZSTs since its 0.75mm. Just wanted to possibly see what is the best kind of sound I could get with the ZSTs.


----------



## sgl54

You are absolutely right. That said I have ordered an upgrade cable for my Zst. Although at $10.00 how upgraded can it be? The Zst is the only phone I have with two pin cables, so for me it's worth having a spare around. I've had entry level mmcx cables get flakey. Am I hopeing for subltle changes, yes! do I expect them, no. But I expect it in about another week so I'll let you know.


----------



## Comebackboy

sgl54 said:


> You are absolutely right. That said I have ordered an upgrade cable for my Zst. Although at $10.00 how upgraded can it be? The Zst is the only phone I have with two pin cables, so for me it's worth having a spare around. I've had entry level mmcx cables get flakey. Am I hopeing for subltle changes, yes! do I expect them, no. But I expect it in about another week so I'll let you know.


 
 The silver upgrade cable improves the clarity and vocals (especially male vocals) while sacrificing a little bit a bass as compared to the original ones. Separation is also improved slightly. Of course, don't expect drastic changes, but the improvements are definitely noticeable. Or then again it could be placebo, who am I to say?


----------



## Fishops

Got a pair of ED12's after being really impressed with the ATE.
  
 They're nice looking! They fit really well! The build quality is amazing for the $15 I spent!
  
 Sadly, they sound hooorrrribblle.
  
 They retain some of the bass extension of the ATE without being too boomy, which is nice. But the treble is so rolled off past 8k and the upper mids are so crazy between about 1500 and 3k that it sounds like a telephone bandpass. I almost want to take these apart and tune them in some way because they're built so well.
  
 I can't really complain for $15, I guess they can't all be budget superstars. Probably won't stop me from ordering the ZS3 at some point either, though I have those TFZ 5 hypetrain monsters on the slow boat from china as well. It's a great time to be alive if you're into cheap IEMs!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Part of this hobby is dealing with slight changes. We have become spoiled too. But much of the goal is to get the music to end up being listenable and musical.

Posting this post in a $10 IEM thread is slightly oxymoronish. Still what ever equipment used it's about slight improvements and yes, placebo can somehow go a long way to change opinion in the end.

The end concept for many is experamenting, thus making the hobby of music listening more active. It is fact that starting from the file quality or playback software, a couple small changes end up with a slight modificafion of sound. To some myopic listeners the sound then is drasticly changed. If cables add 2% then playback software adds 2% then the DAC adds 4% and so on, we end up with different sound. 

It's not always about getting the signal flat, but making the music enjoyable and fun. I believe these same concepts pertain to $10 headphones or $1000 headphones.

We win when we get to a point where we want to just leave stuff alone and get into the thrill of the music, not the equipment at hand. IMO


----------



## haiku

fishops said:


> Got a pair of ED12's after being really impressed with the ATE.
> 
> They're nice looking! They fit really well! The build quality is amazing for the $15 I spent!
> 
> ...


 

 Give em some time. My ZS3 also sounded terrible ootb, but after 1 week of break in they´re opening up now.


----------



## sgl54

Well, I'm a firm believer in the placebo effect, that and burn in. Not that I want to give away any bass, but more articulate highs would be nice. It will be interesting to hear the results. Overall I like the Zst, but I'm still thinking the dynamic will settle in a bit , by the time the cables here it should as good as it will ever be.


----------



## Comebackboy

redcarmoose said:


> Part of this hobby is dealing with slight changes. We have become spoiled too. But much of the goal is to get the music to end up being listenable and musical.
> 
> Posting this post in a $10 IEM thread is slightly oxymoronish. Still what ever equipment used it's about slight improvements and yes, placebo can somehow go a long way to change opinion in the end.
> 
> ...


 
 Agreed. Just want to experiment and play around until I find something that I like, though I would agree that asking for cable upgrades in a budget IEM thread is kind of stupid. My bad haha was just looking for some other cable options to play around with.
  
 I mean even if I used the same amount of money to buy other budget IEMs, I might not get the sound that I like from the ZSTs but if I bought a cable that somehow suits my liking then it's all good. So it's all subjective and relative, on how and where the money should be spent on.


----------



## Comebackboy

sgl54 said:


> Well, I'm a firm believer in the placebo effect, that and burn in. Not that I want to give away any bass, but more articulate highs would be nice. It will be interesting to hear the results. Overall I like the Zst, but I'm still thinking the dynamic will settle in a bit , by the time the cables here it should as good as it will ever be.


 
 IMO, placebo effect can't be that great here, since it's pretty much a $10 cable. I guess it's a mix of both placebo and slight actual differences. And yes, burn-in seems to help with the ZST, worked for me. Would be nice to get some updates from you when your silver cable arrives


----------



## chaiyuta

comebackboy said:


> Yooo guys chill I was just asking to see if anyone tried other cables with the ZST. I gotta say that cables do make a difference, but it definitely can't save a fundamentally flawed iem. And placebo, yes I think to some extent that's true as well but I only changed from the stock to the silver cable (which is really cheap as well) and there was definitely an improvement in sound. Not sure about the science behind it but I guess sometimes certain earphones and cables work together.
> 
> And yes, I really like the ZSTs so I probably won't be getting another IEM anytime soon (though I am considering the **** 4in1 and maybe the ZS3
> 
> ...


 
  Glad to hear your additional intention of what you was asking for. Normally 0.75mm 2-pin is quite standard 2-pin. I also saw fiiO has both 0.75mm type and 0.78mm type. Maybe you can look up to other well-known brands except my previous suggestion.


----------



## myliferockkss

Just received... Fresh wood


----------



## Vidal

myliferockkss said:


> Just received... Fresh wood


 
  
 Technically bamboo is a grass.


----------



## SuperMAG

pashhtk27 said:


> Gawd, I ordered **** 4in1 in silver with blue cable! Guess I'll perceive the sound as the brightest. xD
> 
> And while I don't believe cable material makes a significant difference, I think the jack does. I suffer from jack problems everyday as my headphone out on the smartphone is a bit wonky.
> 
> Put HD9 on my wishlist. Maybe I'll order them next time I buy something, when I have the money that is.


 
 i also have black with blue wire, the sound is cold/bright, what wire do i need to increase bass and make sound softer/warmer.


----------



## Mellowship

fishops said:


> Got a pair of ED12's after being really impressed with the ATE.
> 
> They're nice looking! They fit really well! The build quality is amazing for the $15 I spent!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Having a bad experience with ED12 also. 
 I don't even find the build quality to be amazing on my pair, and I am looking forward to share some considerations about it. 
 The black lids (with ED12 written on them) are not perfectly glued our mounted on the earpieces. Instead, they are slightly elevated in one side, leaving a gap that works like a vent. I can actually ear the sound escaping through that gap. Is it the same on yours? 
 Moreover, the blue unit is actually purple, not blue. 
 I also find the mids to be weird and unbalanced.


----------



## Redcarmoose

comebackboy said:


> Agreed. Just want to experiment and play around until I find something that I like, though I would agree that asking for cable upgrades in a budget IEM thread is kind of stupid. My bad haha was just looking for some other cable options to play around with.
> 
> I mean even if I used the same amount of money to buy other budget IEMs, I might not get the sound that I like from the ZSTs but if I bought a cable that somehow suits my liking then it's all good. So it's all subjective and relative, on how and where the money should be spent on.




I have just changed both Android and iPhone, iPod Touch to the new Foobar and it seems more clear? After getting Wasapi and Foobar for the PC it became my favorite software! So placebo can even be there?

Still this hobby is about the small details. It's about getting the best tips, the price could be super expensive for an upgrade in equipment, but if you don't like the change it does not matter if you spent $100 or $10.

I have two different $100 headphones that I like less than the ATE?

Plus much of the time members very between a number of headphones. At one time they may like one sound, then it could change. I could never figure that out. We at times end up with a stack of gear which does not have THE sound, then suddenly go back to it. Finding a different cable to slightly change a signature is both intriging and fun. Most of the time it seems members are using super expensive cables with super expensive headphones, but that does not rule out that the same concept is in place here in low cost land?


----------



## Kepller

Hi guys what is currently the best KZ IEM in terms of clarity? I'm looking for something with a tight, clear and punchy low-end. And highs which are crisp but not sibilant. Not expecting westone BA quality but anything that has similar signature to the um 30 pro.


----------



## haiku

kepller said:


> Hi guys what is currently the best KZ IEM in terms of clarity? I'm looking for something with a tight, clear and punchy low-end. And highs which are crisp but not sibilant. Not expecting westone BA quality but anything that has similar signature to the um 30 pro.


 

 I would say try the ZS3.


----------



## haiku

redcarmoose said:


> I have just changed both Android and iPhone, iPod Touch to the new Foobar and it seems more clear? After getting Wasapi and Foobar for the PC it became my favorite software! So placebo can even be there?
> 
> Still this hobby is about the small details. It's about getting the best tips, the price could be super expensive for an upgrade in equipment, but if you don't like the change it does not matter if you spent $100 or $10.
> 
> ...


 

 The ATE and ATE S are also my favourite headphones at the moment. Like them more than my HD600, Hifiman 400s and all my earbuds, because they were the first to show me that there was some life going on in the subbass realm of my music. Now I´m discovering all my music anew again. Can´t thank KZ enough for that.


----------



## bertybassett

I got the kz ZST does anyone have a good suggestion for a replacement cable that has an iPhone 3 button remote it on.


----------



## B9Scrambler

As much as I love all these new KZ's, ATR especially, the original ZS1 is still f@#$%g amazing. Nothing in this price range can touch that combination of bass, soundstage, and refinement. Really is a shame they ditched the crossover and turned them into a sports version of the ZN1 Mini


----------



## lohjiahung

b9scrambler said:


> As much as I love all these new KZ's, ATR especially, the original ZS1 is still f@#$%g amazing. Nothing in this price range can touch that combination of bass, soundstage, and refinement. Really is a shame they ditched the crossover and turned them into a sports version of the ZN1 Mini :mad:



I've used both the ZS1 and ZS2, and I can never get them to fit right in my ear due to the shape of the housing. The ATE/ATR works just fine though. Is there a way to wear it I'm missing out on?


----------



## ustinj

haiku said:


> I would say try the ZS3.


 
 I just got the ZS3 in today; i don't think the bass is 'tight'. It has a deep visceral impact and slow decay, albeit a little looser, bassheads unite lol. 
  
 it doesn't help that my left channel is imbalanced, going to see if i can get a replacement or my money back. has anyone tried the ZS3 and felt it puts a lot more 'pressure' in your ear canal than other iems? Probably going to look into foams to help combat that.


----------



## Ruben123

ustinj said:


> I just got the ZS3 in today; i don't think the bass is 'tight'. It has a deep visceral impact and slow decay, albeit a little looser, bassheads unite lol.
> 
> it doesn't help that my left channel is imbalanced, going to see if i can get a replacement or my money back. has anyone tried the ZS3 and felt it puts a lot more 'pressure' in your ear canal than other iems? Probably going to look into foams to help combat that.




Yeah more here have the problem of the pressure. I fixed it by using a wide bore tip (which came with mp8320). Also you will see the bass drops a bit when using those tips!


----------



## haiku

ustinj said:


> I just got the ZS3 in today; i don't think the bass is 'tight'. It has a deep visceral impact and slow decay, albeit a little looser, bassheads unite lol.
> 
> it doesn't help that my left channel is imbalanced, going to see if i can get a replacement or my money back. has anyone tried the ZS3 and felt it puts a lot more 'pressure' in your ear canal than other iems? Probably going to look into foams to help combat that.


 

 Don´t think the bass will impress a basshead. The bass and subbass of the ATE´s is a whole different story ....


----------



## fonkepala

Look what came in the mail today  About 13 days from making the order to getting it in the mail, not bad for almost free shipping. Strangely enough, my ZS3 packaging was sealed with plastic cling wrap while the ATR wasn't sealed at all.
  
 Haven't listened to the ATR, now listening to the ZS3. Initial impression is that they sound good, real good in fact..especially when paired with my Fiio Q1 as amp & DAC. Using the stock tips. Comfort is good, no pressure point that I can tell for now. Quite pleased with the ZS3 in light of the price, for now. Will need more listening time with my test tracks playlist to be 100% certain. Also maybe a day of burning in just in case.


----------



## Ruben123

Wow, just wow... Received the ATR also, who find the zs3 refined, will not believe their ears when hearing the ATRs... Need some more testing for sure but this quality for this price is unheard of. I think we have a winner here. Probably the best KZ regarding quality, of course if you like an other sound signature you won't be as pleased. They sound very musical, warm mids but certainly no hard hitting bass, and smooth treble with a slight peak for the extra details. Amazing.


----------



## Sylmar

ruben123 said:


> Wow, just wow... Received the ATR also, who find the zs3 refined, will not believe their ears when hearing the ATRs... Need some more testing for sure but this quality for this price is unheard of. I think we have a winner here. Probably the best KZ regarding quality, of course if you like an other sound signature you won't be as pleased. They sound very musical, warm mids but certainly no hard hitting bass, and smooth treble with a slight peak for the extra details. Amazing.


 
 Glad you like them. They are now more or less my daily driver.


----------



## CoiL

C`mon... gotta take some ATR and do some modding. Just too much positive comments about ATR to resist and enjoy ATE FF-mod, BK50 and **** 4in1  -.-
  
 Gearbest is OK place with legit ATR`s to order from? Will take 10 of them.


----------



## Sylmar

coil said:


> C`mon... gotta take some ATR and do some modding. Just too much positive comments about ATR to resist and enjoy ATE FF-mod, BK50 and **** 4in1  -.-
> 
> Gearbest is OK place with legit ATR`s to order from? Will take 10 of them.


 
 Got mine through Gearbest. Got them pretty quick. Keep us informed of the modding!


----------



## haiku

ruben123 said:


> Wow, just wow... Received the ATR also, who find the zs3 refined, will not believe their ears when hearing the ATRs... Need some more testing for sure but this quality for this price is unheard of. I think we have a winner here. Probably the best KZ regarding quality, of course if you like an other sound signature you won't be as pleased. They sound very musical, warm mids but certainly no hard hitting bass, and smooth treble with a slight peak for the extra details. Amazing.


 

 No hard hitting bass?? ****, and I ordered them, too.


----------



## B9Scrambler

lohjiahung said:


> I've used both the ZS1 and ZS2, and I can never get them to fit right in my ear due to the shape of the housing. The ATE/ATR works just fine though. Is there a way to wear it I'm missing out on?


 
  
 I found a tip that ensures the earphone can seal with a very shallow fit. The memory wire has been bent so that it holds it in place. Trying to wear them like I would with a normal earphone, as you would with the ZN1 Mini, isn't anywhere near as comfortable or secure. The memory wire is key.


----------



## Aradea

haiku said:


> I would say try the ZS3.



Even when compared to the new ZST?


----------



## CoiL

sylmar said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > C`mon... gotta take some ATR and do some modding. Just too much positive comments about ATR to resist and enjoy ATE FF-mod, BK50 and **** 4in1  -.-
> ...


 
 Ok. Took 8x ATR from GB. Will let You all know when I receive them and how modding goes. 7 of them will be modded by my students and 1 by myself ;P


----------



## haiku

aradea said:


> Even when compared to the new ZST?


 

 Don´t know, don´t own them.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Ok. Took 8x ATR from GB. Will let You all know when I receive them and how modding goes. 7 of them will be modded by my students and 1 by myself ;P


 
  
 Nice! Looking forward to seeing the results.


----------



## Redcarmoose

This is the only headphone that wins over my KZ collection. They have just reduced the price by 1/3 too!


Greatest headphone I own, at just $8 it's better than anything I own at any price, even up to $1000.00.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/REMAX-RM-S1-Pro-In-ear-3-5mm-Wired-Sport-Hook-Earphone-with-Mic-Volume-Control-/232089951349?var=&hash=item3609a39c75%3Am%3AmbEGPq_d41q5lMqsLnmQrKA&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac4c8aac1-8d64-11e6-9747-74dbd18099da%257Cparentrq%253Aa4ba668c1570a2a4e4948831fffdc45f%257Ciid%253A2


----------



## Ruben123

When comparing the ATR &ZS3 I'm having a hard time. Mids on the ZS3 seem clearer and the sub bass a bit higher. ATR's highs are a bit more pronounced which causes it to have a bit better detail, but its mid bass is also a bit louder and the lower mids a bit toned down. More v shaped. THOUGH I might be wrong, I think they are the same drivers really. And I'd the differences are real, they are very slight. Comfort wise the zs3 wins hands down. Otherwise I'd get the ATR at half the price.


----------



## Brian Coffey

redcarmoose said:


> This is the only headphone that wins over my KZ collection. They have just reduced the price by 1/3 too!
> 
> 
> Greatest headphone I own, at just $8 it's better than anything I own at any price, even up to $1000.00.
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/REMAX-RM-S1-Pro-In-ear-3-5mm-Wired-Sport-Hook-Earphone-with-Mic-Volume-Control-/232089951349?var=&hash=item3609a39c75%3Am%3AmbEGPq_d41q5lMqsLnmQrKA&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac4c8aac1-8d64-11e6-9747-74dbd18099da%257Cparentrq%253Aa4ba668c1570a2a4e4948831fffdc45f%257Ciid%253A2


 
 Are they better than your QKZ W1 ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> When comparing the ATR &ZS3 I'm having a hard time. *Mids on the ZS3 seem clearer and the sub bass a bit higher. ATR's highs are a bit more pronounced which causes it to have a bit better detail, but its mid bass is also a bit louder and the lower mids a bit toned down. More v shaped. *THOUGH I might be wrong, I think they are the same drivers really. And I'd the differences are real, they are very slight. Comfort wise the zs3 wins hands down. Otherwise I'd get the ATR at half the price.


 
  
 I think with these two how you hear them will really come down to tips and ear anatomy. For me, replace ZS3 with ATR;
  
_Mids on the ATR seem clearer and the sub bass a bit higher. ZS3's highs are a bit more pronounced which causes it to have a bit better detail, but its mid bass is also a bit louder and the lower mids a bit toned down. More v shaped._
  
 I also feel the ATR has a more airy and spacious soundstage, which is awesome because the ZS3 is no slouch there. On the ATR I use either the stock large tips or the large tips from the Mixcder ANC-G5. Stock tips are more comfortable, but the ANC tips have a larger bore and improve treble quality. On the ZS3 I use either UE600 medium (most balanced sound) or large RHA tips (a little bassy, but even more comfortable).


----------



## Redcarmoose

brian coffey said:


> Are they better than your QKZ W1 ?





They are.



I have used them for 100s of hours, so I feel pretty confident in my opinions. They smoothed out nice.



They are just a more real and full placement of sound. I love the QKZ W1 as they are different. The QKZ W1 is special, actually I have never found anything exactly like them. Still they are just not as full or relaxed sounding as the S1s. The S1 has a detail and easy going character. There is an immersive and big sound to the S1. It's also just there, there is no getting used to them or fiddling with fit, they are just ON. Though they do sound way better than when new. Even Remax suggests this long involved burn in process. I didn't follow the manual, but I can safely say they are burned in well.

Crazy too as I don't have any megabuck IEMs. I may like them more. So I'm not an IEM expert. It would be nice if even more members would get them and voice some opinions. I have gained confidence about the sound as I always knew it was good, but now have read others finding these are up close to their way more expensive IEMs also.

But this new build at $8 is crazy. They are not offering the complete tip range like the original S1 and they are in different colors now. A white and red, a clear red, a clear blue and a clear black.

They just have so much lower detail and soundstage. Better than my Denon AHD 7000 full size headphones. Not the detail in mids, but for what they are, they are amazing.

I think most here would like them better than what KZ makes. For the life of me I still don't know why they are not more popular?

Also the fit is amazing. Just nothing not to love here.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> I think with these two how you hear them will really come down to tips and ear anatomy. For me, replace ZS3 with ATR;
> 
> _Mids on the ATR seem clearer and the sub bass a bit higher. ZS3's highs are a bit more pronounced which causes it to have a bit better detail, but its mid bass is also a bit louder and the lower mids a bit toned down. More v shaped._
> 
> I also feel the ATR has a more airy and spacious soundstage, which is awesome because the ZS3 is no slouch there. On the ATR I use either the stock large tips or the large tips from the Mixcder ANC-G5. Stock tips are more comfortable, but the ANC tips have a larger bore and improve treble quality. On the ZS3 I use either UE600 medium (most balanced sound) or large RHA tips (a little bassy, but even more comfortable).




Lol Thai is really funny. I used wide standard tips on both if that makes sense. 

@ Redcar I've been buying too many earphones people hyped and were not that good in the end, that I'm not buying them. Above all if they had more bass than the ate I'm certainly not interested lol


----------



## Comebackboy

Have the sudden urge to pick up a new budget IEM again even though I just got the ZST. Was looking at the ZS3 (with silver cable), Tennmak Pro and the **** 4in1. If I could I would want to pick up all 3 but unfortunately I can only afford one currently. I recently tried my friend's StageDivers and I was really impressed with the fit thus the sudden interest in the ZS3 haha but seems like the Tennmak Pros and **** 4in1 would provide better sound quality. 
  
 Any suggestions?


----------



## fonkepala

As for me, I find that I enjoy the sound from the ZS3 more than the ATR out of the box. Still early days, so I'll refrain from pointing out what I'm less keen on the ATR's sound. As of now, the ATR is undergoing burn in. 

Oh, and the ATR'S stock tips also irritated my ears quite badly. Itched something wicked, which hasn't happened to me before with other tips, be they foam or silicone. So I switched to JVC Spiral Dots medium for left ear & a single flange large tip from my Meeaudio M6 Pro on the right ear. Comply T200 won't fit on the ATR's bore. 

Also, are the cables on the ATR detachable? They look like they might be, but when I gave them a good yank no joy. 

@ruben123, was your ATR sealed with plastic cling wrap when they arrived? Any documentation inside the box?


----------



## Redcarmoose

ruben123 said:


> Lol Thai is really funny. I used wide standard tips on both if that makes sense.
> 
> @ Redcar I've been buying too many earphones people hyped and were not that good in the end, that I'm not buying them. Above all if they had more bass than the ate I'm certainly not interested lol




It's more but spectacularly detailed and crisp. Where ATE is slightly muddy. If I do back to back the ATE actually has a more forward mid in comparison to the S1. I hope there are more people who find out about the S1. I only know of four here. Maybe some quality control issues too, one member reported his left driver going out in less than 30 days. They come with a six month warranty though!

Still as always though, popularity here on Head-Fi is not always based on SQ.


----------



## Ruben123

Yes the box wrapped in plastic, without a manual or something the zs3 had though


----------



## fonkepala

I see. Well, my ATR wasn't sealed with plastic. Maybe it's a returned unit? Hmm.. I might take this up with Gearbest.


----------



## Vidal

fonkepala said:


> I see. Well, my ATR wasn't sealed with plastic. Maybe it's a returned unit? Hmm.. I might take this up with Gearbest.


 
  
 A lot of GB stuff arrives unwrapped, if it had a QC sticker on it's probably been tested before going out. If there's no QC sticker it could be stock was tested on arrival at their warehouse. KZ doesn't have the best record for quality assurance and I would imagine any firm that got stung with the original ZS3 recall are probably being hyper careful.
  
 If it's anything like the company I work for they probably have a system the number of failed devices on previous delivery indicates on the volume of devices tested on the next.


----------



## Sylmar

I've had wrapped and unwrapped being sent to me. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about it.


----------



## carltonh

redcarmoose said:


> This is the only headphone that wins over my KZ collection. They have just reduced the price by 1/3 too!
> 
> 
> Greatest headphone I own, at just $8 it's better than anything I own at any price, even up to $1000.00.
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/REMAX-RM-S1-Pro-In-ear-3-5mm-Wired-Sport-Hook-Earphone-with-Mic-Volume-Control-/232089951349?var=&hash=item3609a39c75%3Am%3AmbEGPq_d41q5lMqsLnmQrKA&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac4c8aac1-8d64-11e6-9747-74dbd18099da%257Cparentrq%253Aa4ba668c1570a2a4e4948831fffdc45f%257Ciid%253A2


 

 OK, I bit and bought. But better than any KZ isn't a MASSIVE upgrade. I'll see if it is better than the awesome midlevel HLSX 808, **** 4in1, YHS 002, or Sony AS800 and XB90, that I own. Probably not equal to these budget champ hybrids. I'll be really surprised if better than the Tennmak models like the Pro.


----------



## jbusuego

carltonh said:


> OK, I bit and bought. But better than any KZ isn't a MASSIVE upgrade. I'll see if it is better than the awesome midlevel HLSX 808, **** 4in1, YHS 002, or Sony AS800 and XB90, that I own. Probably not equal to these budget champ hybrids. I'll be really surprised if better than the Tennmak models like the Pro.




X2


----------



## Redcarmoose

carltonh said:


> OK, I bit and bought. But better than any KZ isn't a MASSIVE upgrade. I'll see if it is better than the awesome midlevel HLSX 808, **** 4in1, YHS 002, or Sony AS800 and XB90, that I own. Probably not equal to these budget champ hybrids. I'll be really surprised if better than the Tennmak models like the Pro.




I still need to hear Tennmak Pro. Will be getting the 1 More Hybrid, so my cheaper purchases will take a slow down.

It also may have to do with the genre of music, they seem to excel with EDM.

Did you get 100 hours of burn-in? That's when they seemed to come alive for me?

Also the Tennmaks are not $8?


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## fonkepala

vidal said:


> A lot of GB stuff arrives unwrapped, if it had a QC sticker on it's probably been tested before going out. If there's no QC sticker it could be stock was tested on arrival at their warehouse. KZ doesn't have the best record for quality assurance and I would imagine any firm that got stung with the original ZS3 recall are probably being hyper careful.
> 
> If it's anything like the company I work for they probably have a system the number of failed devices on previous delivery indicates on the volume of devices tested on the next.


 
  
  


sylmar said:


> I've had wrapped and unwrapped being sent to me. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about it.


 
  
 Ok, noted. Thanks @Vidal & @Sylmar. MY ATR are still cooking on the burn in station. Aiming for a 24 hour burn in period before I have my next listen.
  


redcarmoose said:


> I still need to hear Tennmak Pro. Will be getting the 1 More Hybrid, so my cheaper purchases will take a slow down.
> 
> It also may have to do with the genre of music, they seem to excel with EDM.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Like you, I also bought the 1More Triple Driver. Currently waiting for them to arrive. The Tennmak Pros are on my radar as well. Interesting IEM those Remax S1 tho...over here Remax is a quite well known brand for making OEM computer & mobile accessories such as cables, USB chargers, etc. Not sure about their quality though.


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## trumpethead

Believe it or not my ZST are staying to grow on me after about 48 hours off burn in and the proper tips for my ears..Extremely comfortable, spacious, airy sound, not the most detailed but overall sound quality is improving from OOTB. Really close to my prefered sound signature. I really feel like the BA is starting too break in...No longer disappointed, actually quite pleased...


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## Comebackboy

Anyone know if the UE TF10 cable can fit the ZST?


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## Vidal

I'm looking at a DIY mod to turn the ZST cable into a memory wire cable, will post details of how if I can get it to work.


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## rockingthearies

Hi all my ZS3 red nozzle on the right is dented is there a warranty for this? I bought it from gearbest? Will this dent affect SQ in anyway if not i really don't mind


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## B9Scrambler

rockingthearies said:


> Hi all my ZS3 red nozzle on the right is dented is there a warranty for this? I bought it from gearbest? Will this dent affect SQ in anyway if not i really don't mind


 
  
 That should be an easy fix since it's just the filter slightly out of tilt. If you use something small, such as a pin, you should be able to slide it back into place so it sits flush.


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## rockingthearies

Thanls





b9scrambler said:


> That should be an easy fix since it's just the filter slightly out of tilt. If you use something small, such as a pin, you should be able to slide it back into place so it sits flush.


 Thanks for the tip!


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## B9Scrambler

Cheers! Back to bed for me, 'cause it's 4AM. Bleh...


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## Redcarmoose

fonkepala said:


> Ok, noted. Thanks @Vidal
> & @Sylmar. MY ATR are still cooking on the burn in station. Aiming for a 24 hour burn in period before I have my next listen.
> 
> 
> Like you, I also bought the 1More Triple Driver. Currently waiting for them to arrive. The Tennmak Pros are on my radar as well. Interesting IEM those Remax S1 tho...over here Remax is a quite well known brand for making OEM computer & mobile accessories such as cables, USB chargers, etc. Not sure about their quality though.




They are not well known here but there is a little bit of stuff, just finished listening to three of their ultra budget IEMs and they were not for me. The Remax 610D (which I own) is a nice IEM and very different from the S1. Still curious to hear about the Remax RM800MD also? They make a billion different USB cords and battery packs, basicly anything to do with phones, it seems. 

Like anything from China at this price range I think quality control may be an issue, though the Remax stuff comes with warranty paperwork as well as batch identification and quality control signatures. It's just that the pure numbers of stuff made is staggering with a company like Somic making 2 million pairs of headphones a month, even if we never hear about them.


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## Vidal

redcarmoose said:


> They are not well known here but there is a little bit of stuff, just finished listening to three of their ultra budget IEMs and they were not for me. The Remax 610D (which I own) is a nice IEM and very different from the S1. Still curious to hear about the Remax RM800MD also? They make a billion different USB cords and battery packs, basicly anything to do with phones, it seems.
> 
> Like anything from China at this price range I think quality control may be an issue, though the Remax stuff comes with warranty paperwork as well as batch identification and quality control signatures. It's just that the pure numbers of stuff made is staggering with a company like Somic making 2 million pairs of headphones a month, even if we never hear about them.


 
  
 Remax do the S3 wireless thingy as well, the earphones are identical in look to the Fanmusic E6 just with a short cable. I think it's similar to the 610D but without the mesh back.


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## Redcarmoose

vidal said:


> Remax do the S3 wireless thingy as well, the earphones are identical in look to the Fanmusic E6 just with a short cable. I think it's similar to the 610D but without the mesh back.




That mesh back is fake. There are sound ports which are almost pin-holes but they are not open back like the mesh makes them look like. I still can't figure out what they are made of. At first I though it was ceramic aluminum and plastic because Remax makes ceramic coated IEMs, but it's also very plasticky so I'm just not sure how much aluminum is used?

 Still I like them, they have more treble than the S1, but there is a charming air and speed they do that's nice for a $10 IEM. They are also super easy to fit in place. They may not have enough authority for some listeners, but the detail and soundstage are special, and amazingly special in their price catagory. IMO

Still though in the USA if someone starts to approach more than $16 with shipping, there are far better choices. That is unless you just like to collect sound signatures. Lol

The mesh though kind of works well, as it ends up being a tactile response plate that you place your finger on to push the IEMs forward, into your ear canals. The mesh score is kind of like a grip material.


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## Vidal

redcarmoose said:


> Still though in the USA if someone starts to approach more than $16 with shipping, there are far better choices. That is unless you just like to collect sound signatures. Lol


 
  
 Erm, 32 and counting


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## Redcarmoose

vidal said:


> Erm, 32 and counting :blink:




That's what good about the price. We don't have to refinance a house for the fix! I actually knew someone who refinanced his house and purchased three wrist watches. Lol.


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## Vidal

redcarmoose said:


> That's what good about the price. We don't have to refinance a house for the fix! I actually knew someone who refinanced his house and purchased three wrist watches. Lol.


 
  
  
 Has he not heard of Casio?


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## Redcarmoose

vidal said:


> Remax do the S3 wireless thingy as well, the earphones are identical in look to the Fanmusic E6 just with a short cable. I think it's similar to the 610D but without the mesh back.



http://www.head-fi.org/products/deggod-remax-610d-high-performance-earphones-in-ear-headphones-patent-designed-with-high-tensile-resistance-headsets-3-5mm-jack-earbuds-for-smartphones-tablets-mp3-mp4-players-black/reviews/16366



Single pinhole port in the photo.


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## Rhino73

​Truth is they're all at it. You start with a Casio, then purchase a G Shock, then do some overtime to purchase an Edifice Torro Rosso. Before you know it you're talking to strangers about the benefits of tube rolling and burn in.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## Redcarmoose

rhino73 said:


> ​Truth is they're all at it. You start with a Casio, then purchase a G Shock, then do some overtime to purchase an Edifice Torro Rosso. Before you know it you're talking to strangers about the benefits of tube rolling and burn in..... .





Once down the rabbit hole a special vocabulary is needed as to be able to communicate with other rabbit hole dwellers at hand. 

It's as if these trinkets are more and a statement of who maybe the owner is?



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



How do non-affiliated dealers get name brand watches?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of buying from an authorized dealer?
Glossary of Watch Terms
GLOSSARY OF WATCH TERMS

Alarm : A device that sounds a signal at a pre-set time. 

Altimeter: A device that determines altitude by responding to changes in barometric pressure.

Analog Display: A display that shows the time by means of hands and a dial.

Analog Watch: A watch with a dial, hands, and numbers or markers that present a total display of 12-hour time span. Analog digital refers to a watch that has both a digital display and hands of a conventional watch. 

Aperture: Small opening. The dials of some watches (in French: montres à guichet) have apertures in which certain indications are given (e.g. the date, the hour, etc). 

Assembling: Process of fitting together the components of a movement. This was formerly done entirely by hand, but the operations have now been largely automated. Nevertheless, the human element is still primordial, especially for inspection and testing. 

Automatic Movement: A mechanical movement that requires no winding because the rotor, part of the automatic mechanism, winds the mainspring every time you move your hand. The first automatic movement was invented in Switzerland by Abraham-Louis Perrelet in the Eighteenth century. When fully wound and left to sit, most automatics have up to 36 hours of reserve power. Mechanical movements are accurate within one minute each day. Automatic movements have gained in popularity the last few years especially with watch connoisseurs and are considered to be Switzerland's mechanical answer to the popularity of the no-winding-needed quartz movements that are standard in Japanese watches. 

Auto Repeat Countdown Timer: A countdown timer that resets itself as soon as the preset time has elapsed and starts the countdown again. It repeats the countdown continuously until the wearer pushes the stop button. 

Automatic Watch: A watch whose mainspring is wound by the movements or accelerations of the wearer's arm. On the basis of the principle of terrestrial attraction, a rotor turns and transmits its energy to the spring by means of an appropriate mechanism. The system was invented in Switzerland by Abraham-Louis Perrelet in the 18th century. 

Automatic Winding: (also called "self-winding") Winding that occurs through the motion of the wearer's arm rather than through turning the winding stem. It works by means of a rotor that turns in response to motion, thereby winding up the watch's mainspring. An automatic watch that is not worn for a day or two will wind down and need to be wound by hand to get it started again. 

Balance Spring: A very fine spring (also called a "hair spring") in a mechanical watch that returns the balance wheel back to a neutral position. 

Balance Wheel: The part of a mechanical watch movement that oscillates, dividing time into equal segments. 

Barrel: Thin cylindrical box containing the mainspring of a watch. The toothed rim of the barrel drives the train. 

Battery Reserve Indicator: See "power reserve indicator". 

Bezel: The ring, usually made of gold, gold plate or steel, that surounds the watch face. 

Bi-directional Rotating Bezel: A bezel that can be moved either clockwise or counterclockwise. These are used for mathematical calculations or for keeping track of elapsed time. 

Bracelet: A type of watch band made of elements that resemble links. 

Bridge: Complementary part fixed to the main plate to form the frame of a watch movement. The other parts are mounted inside the frame. 

Cabochon: Decorative stone which has been carved into a round shape. 

Calendar: A feature that shows the day of the month, and often the day of the week and the year. There are several types of calendar watches. 

Caliber: A term often used by Swiss watchmakers to denote a particular model type, such as Caliber 48 meaning model 48. More commonly, the term is used to indicate the movement's shape, layout, or size. 

Cambered: Often used in referring to a curved or arched dial or bezel. 

Case: The metal housing of a watch's parts. Stainless steel is the most typical metal used but titanium, gold, silver, and platinum can also be used. Less expensive watches are usually made of brass and plated with gold or silver. 

Caseback: The reverse side of a watch case that lies against the skin. May be transparent to allow viewing of the inner workings of the watch or be solid. Most manufacturers engrave casebacks with their name, water and shock resistance, case metal content and other details. 

Chime: The bell-like sound made when a clock strikes on the hour, half hour, etc. Two familiar chimes traditionally found in clocks are the Westminster chime made by the famous Big Ben in London, and the bim bam, a two note chime. 

Chronograph: A stopwatch, i.e., a timer that can be started and stopped to time an event. There are many variations on the chronograph. Some operate with a center seconds hand which keeps time on the watch's main dial. Others use subdials to elapsed hours, minutes and seconds. Still others show elapsed time on a digital display on the watch face. When a chronograph is used in conjunction with specialized scales on the watch face, it can perform many different functions, such as determining speed or distance. Some chronographs can time more than one event at a time. Do not confuse the term "chronograph" with "chronometer". The latter refers to a timepiece, which may or may not have a chronograph function, that has met certain high standards of accuracy set by an official watch institute in Switzerland. Watches that include the chronograph function are themselves called "chronographs". 

Chronometer: This term refers to a precision watch that is tested in various temperatures and positions, thus meeting the accuracy standards set by an official institute in Switzerland. Most watch companies provide a certificate with your chronometer purchase. 

Complication: A watch with other functions besides timekeeping. For example, a chronograph is a watch complication. Other complications coveted by watch collectors include: minute repeater, tourbillon, perpetual calendar, or split second chronograph. 

COSC: The official Swiss Chronometer Testing Institute that puts every chronometer watch through a rigorous, 15-day testing procedure to verify the watch's precision. 

Countdown Timer: A function that lets the wearer keep track of how much of a pre-set period of time has elapsed. Some countdown timers sound a warning signal a few seconds before time runs out -- these are useful in events such as yacht races, where the sailor must maneuver the boat into position before the start of a race. 

Crown: Button on the outside of the case that is used to set the time and the calendar, and, in the mechanical watches, to wind the mainspring. 

Crystal: The tranparent cover on the watch face made of glass crystal, synthetic sapphire or plastic. 

Day/Date Watch: A watch that indicates not only the date but also the day of the week. 

Day/Night Indicator: A colored or shaded band on a world time that shows which time zones are in daylight and which in darkness. 

Deployment Buckle: A type of buckle that pops open and fastens using hinged, often adjustable, extenders. Though more expensive than a belt-buckle like closure, a deployment buckle is easier to put on and remove and is more comfortable on the wrist. 

Depth Alarm: An alarm on a diver's watch that sounds when the wearer exceeds a pre-set depth. In most watches it stops sounding when the diver ascends above that depth. 

Dial: The watch face. In high-end watches the numerals, indices and surface designs are applied as separate elements. In less expensive watches, they may be simply printed on the dial. 

Digital watch: A watch that shows the time through digits rather than through a dial and hands display. 

Direct-drive: A function that allows the second-hand to advance in intervals rather than a smooth sweep for more precise timekeeping. The French term for a direct-drive second hand is a trotteuse. 

Dual Timer: A watch that measures current local time as well as at least one other time zone. The additional time element may come from a twin dial, extra hand, subdials, or other means. 

Elapsed Time Rotating Bezel: A graduated rotating bezel used to keep track of periods of time. The bezel can be turned so the wearer can align the zero on the bezel with the watch's seconds or minutes hand. He/she can then read the elapsed time off the bezel. This saves him/her having to perform the subtraction that would be necessary if he used the watch's regular dial. 

Engine Turning: Decorative engraving, usually on the watch face. 

Escapement: Device in a mechanical movement that controls the rotation of the wheels and thus the motion of the hands. 

ETA: One of the leading manufacturers of watch movements based in Switzerland. ETA movements are used by many major Swiss watch brands. 

Face: The visible side of the watch where the dial is contained. Most faces are marked with Arabic or Roman numerals to indicate the hours. Interestingly, when Roman numerals are used, it is traditional to use IIII, rather than IV, to indicate the 4 o'clock position. 

Flyback hand: A seconds hand on the chronograph that can be used to time laps or to determine finishing times for several competitors in race. 

Gasket: Most water resistant watches are equipped with gaskets to seal the case back, crystal, and crown to protect against water infiltration during normal wear. It is important to have the gaskets checked every two years to maintain the water resistance of the watch. 

Gear Train: The system of gears which transmits power from the mainspring to the escapement. 

Gold plating: A layer of gold that has been electro-deposited onto a metal; its thinkness is measured in microns. 

Grande Sonnerie: A type of repeater that sounds the hours and quarter hours when the wearer pushes the button. 

Guilloche: A style of intricate engraving that is popular on watch dials, usually very thin lines interwoven to create a surface texture. 

Hard Metal: A scratch resistant metal comprised of binding several materials, including titanium and tungsten carbide, which are then pressed into an extremely hard metal and polished with diamond powder to add brilliance. 

High-Tech Ceramic: Used as a protective shield for spacecraft reentering the earth's atmosphere, high-tech ceramic is polished with diamond dust to create a highly polished finish. Because the ceramic can be injection molded, pieces can be contoured. It has a very smooth surface and is usually found in black, but can be produced in a spectrum of colors. 

Horology: The science of time measurement, including the art of desiging and constructing the timepieces. 

Index: An hour indicator on an analog watch dial, used instead of numerals. 

Integrated Bracelet: A watch bracelet that is integrated into the design of the case. 

Jewels: Synthetic sapphires or rubies that acts as bearings for gears in the mechanical watch, reducing friction. 

Jump Hour Indicator: A jump hour indicator takes the place of an hour hand. It usually shows the hours by means of a numeral in a window.

Lap Timer: A chronograph function that lets the wearer time segments of a race. At the end of a lap, he/she stops the timer, which then returns to zero to begin timing the next lap. 

Limited Editions: A watch style manufactured in a specific amount, often numbered, and available in limited quantities. Limited editions are available from most fine watch manufacturers and may be highly prized by collectors. 

Liquid-Crystal Display: A digital watch display that shows the time electronically by means of the liquid held in a thin layer between two tranparent plates. 

Lugs: Projection on the watch face to which the watch band/bracelet is attached. 

Main Plate: Base plate on which all the other parts of a watch movement are mounted. 

Mainspring: The driving spring of a watch or clock, contained in the barrel. 

Manual Wind: A manual wind watch must be wound every day by the crown in order to run. Even with that inconvenience, they are still produced by the major houses in Switzerland. Some of the most beautiful pieces made today are manual wind, and you actually won't fund many value or budget manual winds (but they exist!). With exhibition backs becoming very common, it's nice to view the active movement without a rotor in the way.

Marine Chronometer: Highly accurate mechanical or electronic timekeeper enclosed in a box (hence the term box chronometer), used for determining the longitude on board ship.Marine chronometers with mechanical movements are mounted on gimbals so that they remain in the horizontal position is necessary for their precision. 

Measurement Conversion: A feature, usually consisting of a graduated scale on the watch's bezel, that lets the wearer translate one type of measurement into another -- miles into kilometers, for instance, or pounds into kilograms. 

Mechanical Movement: A movement based on a mainspring which is wound by hand; when wound, it slowly unwinds the spring in an even motion. An automatic mechanical requires no winding because of the rotor, which winds the mainspring every time you move your wrist. 

Micron: Unit of measurement of the thickness of the gold-coating. 1 micron = 1/1000mm. 

Military or 24-hour time: When time is measured in 24-hour segments. To convert 12-hour time into 24-hour, simple add 12 to any p.m. time. To convert 24-hour time into 12-hour time, subtract 12 from any time 13 to 24. 

Moon-phase: A window in a watch face that shows which phase the moon is. 

Mother-of-Pearl: Iridescent milky interior shell of the freshwater mollusk that is sliced thin and used on watch dials. While most have a milky white luster, mother-of-pearl also comes in other colors such as silvery gray, gray blue, pink and salmon. 

Movement: The inner mechanism of watch that keeps time and moves the watch's hand, calendar, etc. Movements are either mechanical or quartz. 

Mystery Watch: A patented invention of watchmaker Vincent Calabrese and produced by Jean Marcel, a Swiss manufacturer, the Mystery automatic mechanical watch uses no hands to indicate hours, minutes or seconds. Rather a jumping hour window moves clockwise around a minute scale while a second indicator, an arrow, also ticks around. Gently breathing on the crystal causes the word "mystery" to appear. 

Perpetual Calendar: A calendar that automatically adjusts for the months' varying length and for leap year. Perpetual calendars, which can be powered by quartz or mechanical movements, are programmed to be accurate until the year 2100. Many watch collectors suggest storing mechanical versions in motorized winding boxes when they aren't being worn in order to maintain the calendar countdown. 

Platinum: One of the rarest of precious metals, platinum also is one of the strongest and heaviest, making it a popular choice for setting gemstone jewelry and watches. It has a rich, white luster, and an understated look. Platinum is hypoallergenic and tarnish resistant. Platinum used in jewelry and watches is at least 85 to 95 percent pure. Many platinum watches are produced in limited editions due to the expense and rarity of the metal. 

Power Reserve: The amount of energy reserve stored up to keep a watch running until it stops. The remaining power is sometimes indicated by a small gauge on the dial. 

Power Reserve Indicator: A feature of a mechanical watch that shows how much longer the watch will operate before it must be wound again. 

Pulsimeter: A scale on a chronograph watch for measuring the pulse rate. 

Pusher: Button that is pressed to work a mechanism. (The push-pieces on chronographs, striking watches, alarms, etc.) 

Quartz Crystal: A tiny piece of synthetic quartz that oscillates at the rate of 32.768 times a second, dividing time into equal segments. 

Quartz Movement: A movement which allows a watch to keep time without being wound. This technology employs the vibrations of a tiny crystal to maintain timing accuracy. The power comes from a battery that must be replaced about every 1.5 years. In recent years, new quartz technology enables the watch to recharge itself without battery replacement. This power is generated via body motion similar to an automatic mechanical watch, or powered by light through a solar cell, or even by body heat. A digital quartz watch has no mechanical parts. Most quartz movements are made in Hong Kong, Japan or Switzerland. 

Repeater: A device that chimes the time when the wearer pushes a button. 

Rose (or pink) Gold: A softly hued gold that contains the same metals as yellow gold but with a higher concentration of copper in the alloy. A popular color in Europe, rose gold in watches is often seen in retro styling or in tricolor gold versions. Some 18k red gold watches achieve their color from additional copper in the alloy. 

Rotating Bezel: A bezel (the ring surrounding the watch face) that can be turned. Different types of rotating bezels perform different timekeeping and mathematical functions. 

Rotor: The part of an automatic watch that winds the the movement's main spring. 

Sapphire Crystal: A crystal (the cover that protects the watch face) made of synthetic sapphire, a transparent shatter-resistant, scratch-resistant substance. 

Screw-Down Crown: A crown that can be screwed into the case to make the watch watertight. 

Second Time-Zone Indicator: An additional dial that can be set to the time in another time zone. It lets the wearer keep track of local time and the time in another country simultaneously. 

Shock Absorber: Resilient bearing which, in a watch, is intended to take up the shocks received by the balance staff and thus protects its delicate pivots from damage. 

Shock Resistance: As defined by the US goverment regulation, a watch's ability to withstand an impact equal to that of being dropped onto wood floor from a height of 3 feet. 

Skeleton Case: A case with a transparent front or back that allows the wearer to view the watch's movement. 

Slide Rule: A device, consisting of logarithmic or other scale on the outer edge of ther watch face , that can be used to do mathematical calculations. 

Split Seconds (Rattrapante) Hand: Actually two hands, one a flyback hand the other a regular chronograph hand. When the wearer starts the chronograph, both hands move together. To time laps or different finishing times, the wearer can stop the flyback hand independently while the regular chronograph hand keeps moving, in effect"splitting" the hand(s) in two. 

Stainless Steel: An extremely durable metal alloy (chromium is a main ingredient) that is virtually immune to rust, discoloration and corrosion; it can be highly polished, thus representing a precious metal. Due to this and the importance of white metal jewelry, steel has become a popular setting for diamonds. Because of its strength, stainless steel is often used even on casebacks of watches made of other metals. 

Stepping Motor: The part of a quartz movement that moves the gear train, which in turn moves the watch's hands. 

Sterling Silver: A white and highly reflective precious metal. Sterling silver refers to silver that is 92.5 percent pure, which should be stamped on the metal, sometimes accompanied by the initials of the designer or the country of orgin as a hallmark. Although less durable than stainless steel and other precious metals, sterling silver is often employed in watches that coordinate or look like sterling silver jewelry. A protective coating may be added to prevent tarnishing. 

Stopwatch: A watch with a seconds hand that measures intervals of time. When a stopwatch is incorporated into a standard watch, both the stopwatch function and the timepiece are referred to as a "chronograph". Subdial: A small dial on the watch face used for any of several purposes, such as keeping track of elapsed minutes or hours on the chronograph or indicating the date. 

Swiss Made: A watch is considered Swiss if its movement was assembled, started, adjusted and controlled by the manufacturer in Switzerland. 

Swiss A.O.S.C. (Certificate of Orgin): A mark identifying a watch that is assembled in Switzerland with components of Swiss orgin. 

Sweep Seconds-Hand: A seconds-hand that is mounted in the center of the watch dial. 

Tachymeter: A device on the chronograph watch that measure the speed at which the wearer has traveled over a measured distance. 

Tank Watch: A rectangular watch designed by Louis Cartier. The bars along the sides of the watch were inspired by the tracks of tanks used in World War I. 

Telemeter: A telemeter determines the distance of an object from the observer by measuring how long it takes sound to travel that distance. Like a tachymeter, it consists of a stopwatch, or chronograph, and a special scale, usually on the outermost edge of the watch face. 

30-Minute Recorder (or register): A subdial on a chronograph that can time periods of up to 30 minutes. 

Timer: Instrument used for registering intervals of time (durations, brief times), without any indication of the time of day. 

Titanium: The "space age" metal, often used with a silver-gray appearance. Because it is 30 percent stronger and nearly 50 percent lighter than steel it has been increasingly used in watchmaking, especially sport watch styles. Its resistance to salt water corrosion makes it particularly 
useful in diver's watches. Since it can be scratched fairly easy, some manufacturers use a patented-coating to resist scratching. Hypoallergenic. 

Tonneau Watch: A watch shapped like a barrel, with two convex sides. 

Totalizer: A mechanism that keeps track of elapsed time and display it, usually on a subdial. 

Tourbillon: A device in a mechanical watch that eliminates timekeeping errors cause by the slight difference in the rates at which a watch runs in the horizontal and vertical positions. The tourbillon consist of round carriage, or cage, holding the escapement and the balance. It rotates continously at the rate of once per minute.

Tritium: An isotope of hydrogen that is used to activate the luminous dots or indices on a watch dial. The radioactivity released in this process is too slight to pose a health risk. 

Two-Tone: A watch that combines two metals, usually yellow gold and stainless steel in the case of fine watches. 

12-Hour Recorder (or Register): A subdial on a chronograph that can time periods of up to 12 hours. 

Uni-directional Rotating Bezel: An elapsed time rotating bezel, often found on divers' watches, that moves only in a counterclockwise direction. It is designed to prevent a diver who has unwittingly knocked the bezel off its original position from overestimating his remaining air supply. Because the bezel moves in only one direction, the diver can error only on the side of safety when timing his dive. Many divers' watches are ratcheted, so that they lock into place for greater safety. 

Vibration: Movement of a pendulum or other oscillating element, limited by two consecutive extreme positions. The balance of a mechanical watch generally makes five or six vibrations per second (i.e. 18,000 or 21,600 per hour), but that of a high-frequency watch may make seven, eight or even ten vibrations per second (i.e. 25,200, 28,800 or 36, 000 per hour). 

Waterproof: An illegal and misused term. No watch is fully 100 percent waterproof. 

Water Resistance: A water resistant watch can handle light moisture, such as a rain or sink splashes, but should not be worn swimming or diving. If the watch can be submerged in water, it must state at what depth it maintains water resistance, i.e. 50 meters or more on most sport watches. Below 200 meters, the watch may be used for skin diving and even scuba diving depending upon the indicated depths. 

White Gold: Created from yellow gold by incorporating either nickel or palladium to the alloy to achieve a white color. Most watches made of white gold will be 18k. 

Winding: Operation consisting in tightening the mainspring of a watch. This can be done by hand (by means of the crown) or automatically (by means of a rotor, which is caused to swing by the movements of the wearer's arm). 

Winding Stem: The button on the right side of the watch case used to wind the mainspring. Also called a "crown". 

World Time Dial: A dial, usually on the outer edge of the watch face, that tells the time up to 24 time zones around the world. The time zones are represented by the names of cities printed on the bezel or dial. The wearer reads the hour in a particular time zone by looking at the scale next to the city that the hour hand is pointing to. The minutes are read as normal. Watches with this feature are called "world timers". 

Yacht Timer: A countdown timer that sounds warning signals during the countdown to a boat race. 

Yellow Gold: The traditionally popular gold used in all gold, gold and stainless steel, or other precious metal combinations. Yellow gold watches may be found in 14k or, as found from most European manufacturers, 18k.


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## Vidal

redcarmoose said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/deggod-remax-610d-high-performance-earphones-in-ear-headphones-patent-designed-with-high-tensile-resistance-headsets-3-5mm-jack-earbuds-for-smartphones-tablets-mp3-mp4-players-black/reviews/16366
> 
> 
> 
> Single pinhole port in the photo.


 
  
 The pinhole is in the exact same location as the Mannhas E170s - the S3 is meshless. I'll have to do a back to back to see which is better.
  
 The E170 are 4th best earphone on Audiofight after the Urbanfun, H60 (sic), C190.


----------



## Redcarmoose

vidal said:


> The pinhole is in the exact same location as the Mannhas E170s - the S3 is meshless. I'll have to do a back to back to see which is better.
> 
> The E170 are 4th best earphone on Audiofight after the Urbanfun, H60 (sic), C190.




There has been a multitude of cross design from China this year. It's maybe that companies visit factories and make a product which is special just for the order. Once that batch is done that is it, no more will be built. It's almost like the company does not make the products but has them made. I have found other IEMs like the Remax RM610D which sounded like the Remax IEMs but were just some off brand. I didn't buy them because I figure the RM610D was a good enough example of the sound. 

Right now there are a bunch of brands which look almost exactly like the Basic ie200HD IEM or the Basic ie300HD IEM. It seems all these IEMs are made at the same factories with the same materials and the same sound signature?


----------



## Redcarmoose

In Asia there is so much copy cat stuff which goes on. It's like original ideas are hard to do, so it's much more conservative to produce what has already been successful, an outcome guarantee or sorts.

I see it all the time, a kite store opens then three more kite stores open right next door. They think, hey that guy is selling kites well, I want part of the action, who cares if the sales get split in 1/4s.

That is the question. Did another company start using the Remax design and pay them for it? Did Remax make the IEMs all along.


----------



## crabdog

redcarmoose said:


> In Asia there is so much copy cat stuff which goes on. It's like original ideas are hard to do, so it's much more conservative to produce what has already been successful, an outcome guarantee or sorts.
> 
> I see it all the time, a kite store opens then three more kite stores open right next door. They think, hey that guy is selling kites well, I want part of the action, who cares if the sales get split in 1/4s.
> 
> That is the question. Did another company start using the Remax design and pay them for it? Did Remax make the IEMs all along.


 
 It's common for manufacturers to make and sell OEM products for different companies and often they're exactly the same product but just with different labeling or colors etc. Think of it like Nvidia or AMD who sell their pcbs to third parties (Sapphire, Gigabyte, Asus etc) and those third parties then add their own custom cooling solution for example. Also the same way you can find Samsung parts in Apple products.


----------



## Rhino73

crabdog said:


> It's common for manufacturers to make and sell OEM products for different companies and often they're exactly the same product but just with different labeling or colors etc. Think of it like Nvidia or AMD who sell their pcbs to third parties (Sapphire, Gigabyte, Asus etc) and those third parties then add their own custom cooling solution for example. Also the same way you can find Samsung parts in Apple products.


 

 ​The term is "platform sharing". It occurs everywhere in manufacturing. But just try and tell an Audi owner they're actually driving a Skoda, and watch them implode with denial.


----------



## Vidal

rhino73 said:


> ​The term is "platform sharing". It occurs everywhere in manufacturing. But just try and tell an Audi owner they're actually driving a Skoda, and watch them implode with denial.


 
  
 I prefer to point out that the Skoda version is usually the more reliable car


----------



## Mellowship

rhino73 said:


> ​Truth is they're all at it. You start with a Casio, then purchase a G Shock, then do some overtime to purchase an Edifice Torro Rosso. Before you know it you're talking to strangers about the benefits of tube rolling and burn in.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 ... while drinking some single malt exlusive scotch on tweed jacket...
 been there, done that...
  


vidal said:


> I prefer to point out that the Skoda version is usually the more reliable car


 
  
 Simplified mechanics and electronics on the same car makes it more reliable.


----------



## NewWaveAudio

KZ ATE with open back + Fiio E12 with bass boost + Penon tips= Pure awesome


----------



## Vidal

mellowship said:


> ... while drinking some single malt exlusive scotch on tweed jacket...
> been there, done that...


 
  
 My IEM collection (32) has only just grown to exceed my Malt Whisky collection (28)
  
 I wonder if I could match up the sound of each with a Whisky. Now that would be an interesting weekend.


----------



## Rhino73

All joking aside, I'm 43 years old, I've seen stuff come and go, brands die and be reborn, KZ ATE are the dogs danglies. Chuffin brillliant.


----------



## haiku

Just as a side note, I´ve read that the head of KZ is a former audio technica engineer. Would explain the SQ.


----------



## 1clearhead

ruben123 said:


> Wow, just wow... Received the ATR also, who find the zs3 refined, will not believe their ears when hearing the ATRs... Need some more testing for sure but this quality for this price is unheard of. I think we have a winner here. Probably the best KZ regarding quality, of course if you like an other sound signature you won't be as pleased. They sound very musical, warm mids but certainly no hard hitting bass, and smooth treble with a slight peak for the extra details. Amazing.


 
  
 Come on! You guys are a tease!.....I'll be ordering my ATR's sometime this week! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


redcarmoose said:


> I still need to hear Tennmak Pro. *Will be getting the 1 More Hybrid*, so my cheaper purchases will take a slow down.
> 
> It also may have to do with the genre of music, they seem to excel with EDM.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1 More Hybrids are pretty good! Several months ago I listened to them for several hours at a time and they remind me so much of my modded 808's. ....And even though they needed a little more boost in DB's for my taste, what caught me by surprise was the fact that they are some of the most comfortable earphones I've ever felt! Seriously!


----------



## Redcarmoose

1clearhead said:


> Come on! You guys are a tease!.....I'll be ordering my ATR's sometime this week!
> 
> 
> 1 More Hybrids are pretty good! Several months ago I listened to them for several hours at a time and they remind me so much of my modded 808's. ....And even though they needed a little more boost in DB's for my taste, what caught me by surprise was the fact that they are some of the most comfortable earphones I've ever felt! Seriously!




The cord reminds me of the Piston 3s I have. Some of the reviews reminded me of the sound of the Piston 3s. They look a lot like Pistons 3s as well as their character of needed extra power to wake them? Piston 3s also respond better to bigger equipment than portable? 

They just look well made? I need to have some one actually fly in with them, so I won't have em for a while. Haha.


----------



## fonkepala

1clearhead said:


> 1 More Hybrids are pretty good! Several months ago I listened to them for several hours at a time and they remind me so much of my modded 808's. ....And even though they needed a little more boost in DB's for my taste, what caught me by surprise was the fact that they are some of the most comfortable earphones I've ever felt! Seriously!




And which 1More hybrid is that.. Is it the Triple Driver?


----------



## Ruben123

I already found out that for great opera reproduction you need either a little bit warm sound or a fantastic sound stage, or both. The atr has both and Mozart's La Clemenza sounds awesome.


----------



## Redcarmoose

fonkepala said:


> And which 1More hybrid is that.. Is it the Triple Driver?




http://www.head-fi.org/t/804053/review-1more-triple-driver-in-ear-headphone-with-in-line-microphone-and-remote

That is the one.


----------



## 1clearhead

fonkepala said:


> And which 1More hybrid is that.. Is it the Triple Driver?


 
  
 No, actually the 1More Hybrid Capsule. I love the design!.....like forgeting they're in your ears! They are that comfortable!


----------



## fonkepala

Ok, I'll check em out. The 1more triple driver hybrids are on their way to me


----------



## Ruben123

Guys could you stay ontopic a bit?  There is already another Chinese thread for discussing all other in-ears etc.


----------



## Majin

ruben123 said:


> Guys could you stay ontopic a bit?  There is already another Chinese thread for discussing all other in-ears etc.


 
  
 so the ATR is the best KZ IEM? cause they are like 4 euro's orso on aliexpress. Might give them a try for that price.


----------



## Redcarmoose

ruben123 said:


> Guys could you stay ontopic a bit?  There is already another Chinese thread for discussing all other in-ears etc.




Your right. Sorry.


----------



## Ruben123

majin said:


> so the ATR is the best KZ IEM? cause they are like 4 euro's orso on aliexpress. Might give them a try for that price.


 

 Well yes and no, we can PM if you want to but to all: The ZS3 feels like it has no peaks in the FR, only treble roll off and a subbass bump. Very relaxing signature. The ED9 has a much more "audiophile" sound, brighter, more natural as you wish, but it has more peaks so in overall SQ I would rate it worse than ZS3, though they are incomparable for sure as they sound totally different.
  
 The ATR though, sounds very very much like the ZS3. Probably the same driver, as I have a hard time finding the differences between them. I think the ATR has less sub bass but more upper bass, a tiny peak downwards in the lower mids causing some male voices to sound a bit artificial, combined with the upper bass peak then. Call it a tiny bit of bass bleed if you want. Tiny bit, overall they sound fabulous. It also has a bit more treble than the ZS3 which is very pleasing. SQ wise I would rate them the same. The tiny differences could also be because of a different fit (havent tried many tips yet).


----------



## Ruben123

redcarmoose said:


> Your right. Sorry.


 

 No problem man! It may be a nice place too here but its main focus is KZ of course


----------



## Majin

ruben123 said:


> Well yes and no, we can PM if you want to but to all: The ZS3 feels like it has no peaks in the FR, only treble roll off and a subbass bump. Very relaxing signature. The ED9 has a much more "audiophile" sound, brighter, more natural as you wish, but it has more peaks so in overall SQ I would rate it worse than ZS3, though they are incomparable for sure as they sound totally different.
> 
> The ATR though, sounds very very much like the ZS3. Probably the same driver, as I have a hard time finding the differences between them. I think the ATR has less sub bass but more upper bass, a tiny peak downwards in the lower mids causing some male voices to sound a bit artificial, combined with the upper bass peak then. Call it a tiny bit of bass bleed if you want. Tiny bit, overall they sound fabulous. It also has a bit more treble than the ZS3 which is very pleasing. SQ wise I would rate them the same. The tiny differences could also be because of a different fit (havent tried many tips yet).


 
  
 Maybe when i am up for something new we can PM ye. Just received my monk plus and they sound awesome too bad it's an earbud (rip isolation). The ED9 will be my backup on the go IEM.
  
 I am on the verge to buy something again it will be either ty hi z or the ATR


----------



## Ruben123

majin said:


> Maybe when i am up for something new we can PM ye. Just received my monk plus and they sound awesome too bad it's an earbud (rip isolation). The ED9 will be my backup on the go IEM.
> 
> I am on the verge to buy something again it will be either ty hi z or the ATR


 

 As we PMed about, I totally detest the (original) Monks. There is a treble peak causing fatigue within seconds (for real), even at low volumes. TY HI-Zs are on their way now to replace the Monks thanks to Clearhead.


----------



## PoneyMan

ruben123 said:


> Well yes and no, we can PM if you want to but to all: The ZS3 feels like it has no peaks in the FR, only treble roll off and a subbass bump. Very relaxing signature. The ED9 has a much more "audiophile" sound, brighter, more natural as you wish, but it has more peaks so in overall SQ I would rate it worse than ZS3, though they are incomparable for sure as they sound totally different.
> 
> The ATR though, sounds very very much like the ZS3. Probably the same driver, as I have a hard time finding the differences between them. I think the ATR has less sub bass but more upper bass, a tiny peak downwards in the lower mids causing some male voices to sound a bit artificial, combined with the upper bass peak then. Call it a tiny bit of bass bleed if you want. Tiny bit, overall they sound fabulous. It also has a bit more treble than the ZS3 which is very pleasing. SQ wise I would rate them the same. The tiny differences could also be because of a different fit (havent tried many tips yet).




The KZ ZST, with the silver cable and burned in can be comparable with the ZS3 or ATR? In all questions, specially soundstage


----------



## Ruben123

poneyman said:


> The KZ ZST, with the silver cable and burned in can be comparable with the ZS3 or ATR? In all questions, specially soundstage


 

 I dont have the ZST thanks to negative reviews and I dont believe in burn in or cables so unfortunately no answer from me my friend.


----------



## Majin

ruben123 said:


> As we PMed about, I totally detest the (original) Monks. There is a treble peak causing fatigue within seconds (for real), even at low volumes. TY HI-Zs are on their way now to replace the Monks thanks to Clearhead.


 
  
 My only gripe about the monks are their grainy mids and the thin sounding sub bass. The layering and soundstage is awesome, forward sound and easy to EQ. 
  
 You rated the monk really low right from all the budget earphones.


----------



## kaiteck

majin said:


> so the ATR is the best KZ IEM? cause they are like 4 euro's orso on aliexpress. Might give them a try for that price.


 
 no. its either zst or zs3 or ate is the best from kz
  
 Edit: ATR is a inferior version of ate.


----------



## fonkepala

ruben123 said:


> Guys could you stay ontopic a bit?  There is already another Chinese thread for discussing all other in-ears etc.




Ok, wilco.. Although sometimes it feels rather natural AND relevant to compare KZ's offerings to other great Chi-fi stuff..as I'm sure most of us here are not KZ's customers only. We tend to hoard the other stuff as well


----------



## Ruben123

majin said:


> My only gripe about the monks are their grainy mids and the thin sounding sub bass. The layering and soundstage is awesome, forward sound and easy to EQ.
> 
> You rated the monk really low right from all the budget earphones.


 

 Yes I did, thanks to the quick fatigue. It is really unfortunate though.


----------



## haiku

kaiteck said:


> no. its either zst or zs3 or ate is the best from kz
> 
> Edit: ATR is a inferior version of ate.


 

 When I read what ruben has posted, I would also rate the atr as inferior, personally. I almost regret that I´ve ordered the atr. I like the sound signature of the ATE S the most. I also own ATE and ZS3.


----------



## trumpethead

poneyman said:


> The KZ ZST, with the silver cable and burned in can be comparable with the ZS3 or ATR? In all questions, specially soundstage



At first I was very disappointed with my ZST but after some burn in and finding the right tips for a good deal they have really opened up with a spacious airy sound that is a bit tired of at the top but are a very comfortable and pleasing listen. Good separation of instruments and somewhat balanced IMO...Don't like to compare to ED9 our ATE because I really like them all but the signatures are very different...ATR on the way, from what others have said they are right up there with the rest. Although I have "higher end" earphones sometimes I just prefer listening to my KZ.


----------



## Redcarmoose

carltonh said:


> OK, I bit and bought. But better than any KZ isn't a MASSIVE upgrade. I'll see if it is better than the awesome midlevel HLSX 808, **** 4in1, YHS 002, or Sony AS800 and XB90, that I own. Probably not equal to these budget champ hybrids. I'll be really surprised if better than the Tennmak models like the Pro.




Off topic ..........



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



It will be fun to read your take on the S1.

For me anyway it was just such a different thing. The whole purchase process was weird. I heard them in a store but kept concentrating on an area of the character. It was almost like being over negative and hearing them sound wooley in the mids. I have tried a bunch of bad IEMs in stores.

I had my Piston 3s with me and did a back to back test with what I remember the S1 sounding like. Then walked back to the store and purchased them. After a day or so, they started to sound like some of the best IEMs I have heard, then continued to get better.

The treble will be both non-complex and pulled back at first. The bass will not be smooth at first. Later things just smooth out and the treble goes forward and opens up.

Enjoy!


----------



## B9Scrambler

kaiteck said:


> no. its either zst or zs3 or ate is the best from kz
> 
> Edit: ATR is a inferior version of ate.




ATR is an enhanced ATE. Same sound signature but with improved extension and better build quality. No way can it be considered inferior. Just hold and listen to the two back to back.


----------



## kaiteck

b9scrambler said:


> ATR is an enhanced ATE. Same sound signature but with improved extension and better build quality. No way can it be considered inferior. Just hold and listen to the two back to back.


 
 No. KZ tmall official stated ATR is a bassy inferior cheaper version of ATE. KZ aliwangwang salesman said that the atr should do btr in bass but in overall sound quality, ate should be better. Choosing your preferred sound signature is more important here. But ultimately, KZ intented to make ATR as the inferior version of ATE.
  
 Edit: Just like ATE-s. Some of us still say ATE is better than ATE-s. KZ intented to make ATE-S as upgraded version of ATE, but the quality difference is so subtle to the point our own personal preference matters more. Which is kinda expected since they were sold at the almost the same price.


----------



## B9Scrambler

No offense intended, but salesmen are the last people I would trust especially given the ATE is more expensive. 

If it makes you feel better, neither the ATE nor ATR fit into my personally ideal sound signature. Objective listening with the same sources, tips, songs, etc. (volume matching as best as possible) shows the ATR is the more technically proficient of the two and a noticeable, though minor, improvement over the ATE.


----------



## kaiteck

b9scrambler said:


> No offense intended, but salesmen are the last people I would trust especially given the ATE is more expensive.
> 
> If it makes you feel better, neither the ATE nor ATR fit into my personally ideal sound signature. Objective listening with the same sources, tips, songs, etc. (volume matching as best as possible) shows the ATR is the more technically proficient of the two and a noticeable, though minor, improvement over the ATE.


 
 Maybe salesman is the wrong word to use. I don't really know how to translate this chinese word LOL. well just understand that kz operates tmall site on their own. so its more like apple's employee. Edit: aliwangwang refers their messagenger. Tmall official refers product description. Your theory also doesnt apply here since atr is sold at higher price than ate. The retail price that is.


----------



## 1clearhead

ruben123 said:


> Guys could you stay ontopic a bit?  There is already another Chinese thread for discussing all other in-ears etc.


 

 Oh? Didn't realize I was on the KZ thread, oops!


----------



## carltonh

b9scrambler said:


> ATR is an enhanced ATE. Same sound signature but with improved extension and better build quality. No way can it be considered inferior. Just hold and listen to the two back to back.



Note that my ATR and translucent ATE sound identical, I bought my ATE from Gearbest after the ATR was already released, and it came in the same package as the ATR. So current ATE might not be the same as yous.


----------



## fonkepala

The ATR...ooohh the ATR...
  
 I was ready to write them off as a loss, albeit not a big one, when I listened to them straight OOTB. They sounded muddy to me, lacking energy and clarity. I didn't like how they sounded, simply put. It just sounded inferior in all sorts of ways when I compared them to the ZS3 that I received on the same day, which to me sounded more energetic and engaging. There was plenty of bass on the ATR, but it was loose...weird sounding. I can't really explain in detail.
  
 But now, after 26hrs of burn in with pink noise...the ATR has transformed itself. They sound awesome now. Literally, night and day. The way it sounded OOTB and after burn in is so vastly different that I can scarcely believe it. Yeah yeah, it might be placebo, it might be my brain and ears getting used to the sound...but I don't know..today I had a short listening stint with my MeeAudio M6 Pro (a $50 IEM) and after about an hour I took them off and found my hand reaching for the ATR instead. Even my MeeAudio Pinnacle P1 is spending a lot more time in the drawer these past few days.
  
 I won't say they sound perfect, they don't. But they're far more likeable to me now. Bass sounds tighter and more well controlled. Mids have come forward and not recessed as before. Vocals, especially female, sounds sweet. Treble is ok, not harsh, not sibilant, just fine. But maybe decay is not as good as higher end IEM's, and certain lower frequencies sounds off...the bass hit in Lorde's "Royals" sounds a bit strange. Soundstage and separation is good, not the biggest nor the best (for those I reach for my Grado SR125e), but clear, discernable and slightly airy. Overall, they're more energetic, engaging and fun to listen to now.
  
 Build quality isn't that great either, a step down than the ZS3. Especially the cable, it's so thin and tangly. Microphonics is kinda bad, when walking and moving it gets to you. And I wish they used a detachable cable and a memory wire component that hooks over your ears like the one on the ZS3.
  
 Comfort is great, no pressure pain nor pain anywhere. Although after a while the plastic weight dangling down from my ear lobes do get noticeable. And too much movement can dislodge the cable that goes over my ears..so these are a no-no for sports.
  
 The stock silicone tips also made my ear canal itch something fierce. They're also rather stiff. I'm now using single & double flange stock silicone tips that came with my M6 Pro.
  
 But really, for a $5 IEM I can't expect too much can I? Even the above felt like too much nitpicking. I freaking love the ATR now. It's a good candidate for an IEM you can just bring with you anywhere, that you won't be too worried about and that sounds amazing with great comfort.
  
 Seriously, I've never been a great believer in burn in, and before this I've never burned in any earphones/headphones as fervently as I did with the ATR. I don't know why I did it, but maybe I sensed some potential with the ATR, so that's why I proceeded with their burn in. But now, I think I might burn in all my future purchases, and also those that I already have..especially these cheap chi-fi IEMs.
  
 Now, onwards...I plan to buy the ATE and ATE-S next, to see how they sound in comparison. Oh, the joys of cheap hi-fi stuff. Thank you KZ!


----------



## Ruben123

fonkepala said:


> The ATR...ooohh the ATR...
> 
> I was ready to write them off as a loss, albeit not a big one, when I listened to them straight OOTB. They sounded muddy to me, lacking energy and clarity. I didn't like how they sounded, simply put. It just sounded inferior in all sorts of ways when I compared them to the ZS3 that I received on the same day, which to me sounded more energetic and engaging. There was plenty of bass on the ATR, but it was loose...weird sounding. I can't really explain in detail.
> 
> ...


 

 I used wide bore tips since the beginning and it helps a bit in transforming the slight v shaped sound to a more balanced one. Doesnt mean the ATR is v shaped at all though, it has some peaks here and there that I feel get less when using the wider bore tips. Less bass particularly.


----------



## chaiyuta

Does anyone know how many earphones does KZ approximately released in one year?
For the last 3 consecutive earphones have 2 pin interface, I am curious that what the next one will be.


----------



## kaiteck

chaiyuta said:


> Does anyone know how many earphones does KZ approximately released in one year?
> For the last 3 consecutive earphones have 2 pin interface, I am curious that what the next one will be.


 
 Ate 2017.


----------



## MAntunes

Hi guys!
 I have the original ATE and I am willing to do the upgrade. Basically for keeping one at home and one for travelling with me every day.
 I am very satisfied with the ATE so I wanted a IEM with the same sound signature. Are the ZS3 worth it? I found them very cheap at Gearbest, compared to the official store at Aliexpress (but I don't know if they are original).
 Another thing, do the ZS3 come with foam tips? If not do the ATE ones fit them?
  
 Best regards and sorry for my english.
 Miguel


----------



## CoiL

mantunes said:


> I have the original ATE and I am willing to do the upgrade.


 
 I think only upgrade within KZ family to original ATE (keeping the same sound signature) is to mod them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


newwaveaudio said:


> KZ ATE with open back + Fiio E12 with bass boost + Penon tips= Pure awesome


  
 Do nozzle + port mod also as I did with my ATE FF-Mod. You will be amazed how much micro-detail and clarity ATE can actually provide while maintaining it`s smooth & airy midrange, adding tightness and clarity to bass and clearing up highs while still staying "sweet & buttery"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Remembrance from the past:


coil said:


> Spoiler: Warning: may cause inearrection!


 




> * Top plastic covers removed and replaced with wood backplates.
> * Golden mesh-grills taken from inside and installed inside wood backplate, right above driver unit without gap to driver shell.
> * Plastic nozzles have been cut off, sanded level/even, over-drilled holes and replaced with ED9 brass nozzles.
> * ED9 brass nozzle tip has been grinded shorter on top part to the next "edge" it has and inside hole edge has been grinded concave, like "trompet".
> ...


 
 They are "on par" with my **** 4in1 while having slightly better imaging and larger soundstage with better(natural) decays and reverbs. 4in1 excels in microdetails and clarity but FF-mod just sounds very open, natural and with better mids in counter-weight.


----------



## squallkiercosa

No love for the ZS3?


----------



## Ruben123

squallkiercosa said:


> No love for the ZS3?




Certainly, I like them quite a bit


----------



## Majin

squallkiercosa said:


> No love for the ZS3?


 
  
 There is a lot of praise for it, since the price of gearbest is really good.


----------



## MAntunes

Ok, I think I'll buy the ZS3 then, the Gearbest price is too good!
 Then I'll which one I like most.
 Other thing, I love the foam tips of the ATEs. The ZS3s don't come with foam tips, right? If not, do you recommend any (preferably good and cheap)?
 Thank you!


----------



## Majin

mantunes said:


> Ok, I think I'll buy the ZS3 then, the Gearbest price is too good!
> Then I'll which one I like most.
> Other thing, I love the foam tips of the ATEs. The ZS3s don't come with foam tips, right? If not, do you recommend any (preferably good and cheap)?
> Thank you!


 
  
 I love generic medium hard foam tips. But Ruben says the best sound is achieved by some wide bore tips.


----------



## MAntunes

majin said:


> I love generic medium hard foam tips. But Ruben says the best sound is achieved by some wide bore tips.


 
 And where can I buy those tips?


----------



## Ruben123

They're the general tips you get with almost all earphones. Otherwise look on Ali or eBay, 99% of the sold tips are sufficient. I use those that can be had for $1/10pc.


----------



## sgl54

Ok a few weeks back I picked up the Kz Zst. Decided I needed a replacement cable, just to have on hand. Ordered the silver plated upgrade cable from EE ( Easy Earphone) which is now **** earphone $9.90 us. They arrived today so first impression. Bass went away, mids, well upper mids are stronger more articulate highs about the same but with a subtle overall hollow sound. Running it with the Fiio X3 ( I normally run no eq ) I was able to get most the bass back running the eq on the classical setting and that hollow sound did go away. This was a short listen and just after spending some time with a new hybrid triple. I'll try with the X3 and the Fiio A3 (ek11) which may help. But that's where stands at this point.


----------



## Redcarmoose

sgl54 said:


> Ok a few weeks back I picked up the Kz Zst. Decided I needed a replacement cable, just to have on hand. Ordered the silver plated upgrade cable from EE ( Easy Earphone) which is now **** earphone $9.90 us. They arrived today so first impression. Bass went away, mids, well upper mids are stronger more articulate highs about the same but with a subtle overall hollow sound. Running it with the Fiio X3 ( I normally run no eq ) I was able to get most the bass back running the eq on the classical setting and that hollow sound did go away. This was a short listen and just after spending some time with a new hybrid triple. I'll try with the X3 and the Fiio A3 (ek11) which may help. But that's where stands at this point.




The whole cable debate is never ending though stories like this are a statement that they don't always add a good quality. Especially adding silver to an already bright signature. But more than just tone, we also play with placement when ordering aftermarket cables. Wait till you get a pair of dark IEMs and put it to use. Or maybe burn in will help?


----------



## sgl54

You're right about cables, brightness, moving the signature around etc. I thought I would lose a little bass but based on other ( granted limited ) cable purchases I thought I'd get a solid midrange boost and just maybe a subtle change in the highs. But the bass which wasn't a strong point markedly decreaced. Mid focus shifted up. I don't know how much more burn in effect I'll still get but it won't overcome the cable effect. I do think I'll get some back running the amp. I will say they do look nice. They just pushed the sound out of my prefered signature.


----------



## chaiyuta

After I burn-in ZST quite enough, twang (or harsh) on female vocal had disappeared. I also tried it with another 2 upgraded cables and 3 DACs (CS4398, PCM1792A and ESS9010). In overall sound signature I think that the ESS chip is a good matching. And this earphone is really sensitive on DACs unlike other iems that I owned. I've always used ZST as a secondary earphone since I have spare upgraded cables left. 
  
 For anybody who would like to read much more impressions on ZST, please go the below link.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/new-kz-zst-dd-ba-earphone-5455968-107.html


----------



## haiku

Today, I listened to the Shure 215, se and balanced, with my AK300/380 combo. My KZ ATE S sounds better in every way. The Shure is just too limited on both ends of the spectrum for me. Bass is not meaty enough and highs are also too rolled off. Interesting was, that the Shure sounded better with the stock cable than with the balanced one.
 Anyway, if you´re a KZ ATE fan like me, don´t bother with thinking about trying the Shure. I think it´s just gotten a bit long in the tooth now.


----------



## fonkepala

haiku said:


> Today, I listened to the Shure 215, se and balanced, with my AK300/380 combo. My KZ ATE S sounds better in every way. The Shure is just too limited on both ends of the spectrum for me. Bass is not meaty enough and highs are also too rolled off. Interesting was, that the Shure sounded better with the stock cable than with the balanced one.
> Anyway, if you´re a KZ ATE fan like me, don´t bother with thinking about trying the Shure. I think it´s just gotten a bit long in the tooth now.




I've just sold off my SE215. Primarily because they didn't fit my ears well, but also because of the so-so sound.


----------



## c0rp1

Hey guys,
  
 From the KZ lineup I have the KZ ATE and the KZ ZST (which OOTB felt awful compared to the ATE). Kinda new in all these audiophile stuff, so don't exactly know what sound signature I enjoy and what not. I don't own that many headphones in general (the ATE, ZST, Xiaomi Piston 3 and a pair of Sennheiser HD598 which I sold due to some fatigue I get from over ear headphones). I think I enjoy the sound signature of the Piston 3 more than the ATE.
 From what I've seen in this topic, people speak a lot about the ATR, ZS3 and the ED9, but I'm not sure how different they are compared to the ATE. Any other suggestions of what other KZ model I should try next?
 Forgot to mention, I'm expecting a pair of **** 4in1 soon, so do you think there's anything better that KZ can offer?
  
 Thank you!


----------



## loomisjohnson

c0rp1 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> From the KZ lineup I have the KZ ATE and the KZ ZST (which OOTB felt awful compared to the ATE). Kinda new in all these audiophile stuff, so don't exactly know what sound signature I enjoy and what not. I don't own that many headphones in general (the ATE, ZST, Xiaomi Piston 3 and a pair of Sennheiser HD598 which I sold due to some fatigue I get from over ear headphones). I think I enjoy the sound signature of the Piston 3 more than the ATE.
> From what I've seen in this topic, people speak a lot about the ATR, ZS3 and the ED9, but I'm not sure how different they are compared to the ATE. Any other suggestions of what other KZ model I should try next?
> ...


 

 the zs3 has the same general signature as the ate, but bigger stage and more bass--personally i like the zs3 better. haven't heard the atr, but i glean it's also similar (some say slightly superior) to the ate. everyone has a favorite kz--mine is the ed9, which has a smaller stage but sounds the most natural to me. others rave about the ed10, ed4, etc., all of which have their virtues. you should catch our disease and buy all of them.


----------



## haiku

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs3 has the same general signature as the ate, but bigger stage and more bass--personally i like the zs3 better. haven't heard the atr, but i glean it's also similar (some say slightly superior) to the ate. everyone has a favorite kz--mine is the ed9, which has a smaller stage but sounds the most natural to me. others rave about the ed10, ed4, etc., all of which have their virtues. you should catch our disease and buy all of them.


 

 I like the ATE and ATE S even more than the ZS3, which has kinda dry and sterile sounding highs imo. And if you like great subbass, ATE S is the way to go.


----------



## Degree

haiku said:


> I like the ATE and ATE S even more than the ZS3, which has kinda dry and sterile sounding highs imo. And if you like great subbass, ATE S is the way to go.


 
  
 How does the ATE S compare to the ATR? I love subbase


----------



## haiku

degree said:


> How does the ATE S compare to the ATR? I love subbase


 

 From what I´ve read, the ATR has less bass and subbass than ATE S.


----------



## fonkepala

degree said:


> How does the ATE S compare to the ATR? I love subbase


 
  
 I'll be in a position to answer this question of yours once my order of ATE & ATE-S comes in sometime in the week or so.


----------



## Degree

fonkepala said:


> I'll be in a position to answer this question of yours once my order of ATE & ATE-S comes in sometime in the week or so.


 
  
 Thank you! Looking forward to it


----------



## crabdog

Still nobody tried the KZ Bluetooth earphones?


----------



## Ruben123

Yes someone did and found them horrible, which is a pity as the market could be enormous thanks to the iPhone 7


----------



## B9Scrambler

Been spending some time with the ED12. Not what I was expecting...


​

​
They look great, are exceptionally comfortable, and I got a pair without any build quality issues. What I wasn't expecting was the sound signature. They have a very odd signature, one that is quite similar to that of my ClarityOne ECW102 headphones. Gobs of subbass, heavily recessed mid[COLOR=000000]bass, treble floats around in this odd place between distant and forward. Mids are about the only normal part. It's a weird yet enjoyable sound.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]On another note, my ZS3's cable uses much thicker pins than those used on the ED12 so the cables aren't compatible. Can't recall if that was mentioned in a past post, but figured I'd throw it out there.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]I personally don't think they're very good and wouldn't recommend them. That said, I still like them for whatever reason, just as I like the ECW102 despite it being pretty bad. _*I will be ordering a second pair at some point to see if this set is actually faulty.*_[/COLOR]


----------



## chavez

Soooo,KZ ATE over Shure 215?


----------



## Vidal

crabdog said:


> Still nobody tried the KZ Bluetooth earphones?


 
  
 Waiting for mine to arrive, very slow boat from China. ED12, KST and Kinera in that order


----------



## mochill

Will get my zst tomorrow


----------



## jmwreck

b9scrambler said:


> Been spending some time with the ED12. Not what I was expecting...  ​  ​
> They look great, are exceptionally comfortable, and I got a pair without any build quality issues. What I wasn't expecting was the sound signature. They have a very odd signature, one that is quite similar to that of my ClarityOne ECW102 headphones. Gobs of subbass, heavily recessed midbass, treble floats around in this odd place between distant and forward. Mids are about the only normal part. It's a weird yet enjoyable sound.
> 
> On another note, my ZS3's cable uses much thicker pins than those used on the ED12 so the cables aren't compatible. Can't recall if that was mentioned in a past post, but figured I'd throw it out there.
> ...


 
 This is what I thought too coz I find it very unpleasant. The treble sounded so thin (sterile) and it can't compete to the sound of the ED9 which for me is more lively. Same goes with the ZST or maybe I'm not use to their sound signature.


----------



## haiku

Which other iem could compete with the ATE S when it comes to subbass performance? I´m curious. Anyone?


----------



## Ruben123

So I'm going to give my not well appreciated opinion. Once every while I refind my hds1s and find out how incredible they are. Compared to the ATR and Ed9 I prefer the hds1. Perhaps the ed9 and Atr are technically better but that does not mean I enjoy the hds1 more. It really makes Mozart's symphonies a renewed joy to listen to.


----------



## chaiyuta

crabdog said:


> Still nobody tried the KZ Bluetooth earphones?


 
  
 Yes, I have this one.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> So I'm going to give my not well appreciated opinion. Once every while I refind my hds1s and find out how incredible they are. Compared to the ATR and Ed9 I prefer the hds1. Perhaps the ed9 and Atr are technically better but that does not mean I enjoy the hds1 more. It really makes Mozart's symphonies a renewed joy to listen to.


 
  
 The HDS1 is an awesome little iem. Last time I went back to it, the only issue I had was they could sound congested with some tracks. The ATE/ATR's soundstage has spoiled me, haha. Other than that, the HDS1 is still easily one of the best KZs out there. Beats the pants of the ED12, that's for sure. What a wonky sounding earphone that thing is...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Tossed it on the "burn station" and will come back to it in a week to see if anything changes.


----------



## zabunny94

it's been a while since someone talked about hds1 

hds1 is enjoyable for long listening time because of the smoothened treble. its basically ATE with less bass in my opinion (or maybe ED9 with less treble). kinda regretting my decision to sell it back then because I'm underwhelmed by it, when i listened to my brother's pair recently, i find it to be really pleasantly amazing


----------



## Vidal

haiku said:


> Which other iem could compete with the ATE S when it comes to subbass performance? I´m curious. Anyone?


 
  
 At first I thought Macaw RT10 but it's not quite as deep as the ATE


----------



## haiku

vidal said:


> At first I thought Macaw RT10 but it's not quite as deep as the ATE


 

 Sony XBA H3 maybe?


----------



## Vidal

If we're going outside that price range the 4in1 blows it away


----------



## haiku

vidal said:


> If we're going outside that price range the 4in1 blows it away


 

 So should the Shure 215, but it failed miserably.


----------



## Vidal

haiku said:


> So should the Shure 215, but it failed miserably.


 
  
 I've never heard the SE215, I nearly bought it from Richer Sounds a few years back. Well, I think it was the SE215


----------



## haiku

vidal said:


> I've never heard the SE215, I nearly bought it from Richer Sounds a few years back. Well, I think it was the SE215


 
  

 You don´t miss anything, I can tell ya....


----------



## Vidal

haiku said:


> You don´t miss anything, I can tell ya....


 
  
 According to my wife I used to have a monthly direct debit with RS. That's now moved to AE


----------



## fonkepala

haiku said:


> You don´t miss anything, I can tell ya....




Correct. I mean, for the price they're asking for the SE215, it should sound so so so much better than a $5 KZ ATR. They don't.


----------



## Ruben123

If you guys find a nice offer on the HDS1 let us/me know. Some weeks ago they were reduced to $3,50 which was crazy but heck I already had one, and the moment I thought dang I should order it, the offer ended (Ali). Now theyre even $6 (was $5) so Im not sure whats happening, maybe stocks running out (dont hope so)? In short: *If you see an offer let me know *


----------



## haiku

Some say the ATE S are too bassy and it bleeds into the mids and highs. After about 2 weeks of listening, I think that the highs and mids of most iems bleed way too much into the bass!  Seriously, the enjoyment factor with the ATE S is awesome for me atm. I never would have thought that great bass and subbass would have such a deep impact on the way I can enjoy my music. Stunning....


----------



## tw1s

which kz under $15 is the best ? ate s ?


----------



## Ruben123

No most certainly not. why do you think so?


----------



## Mellowship

fonkepala said:


> Correct. I mean, for the price they're asking for the SE215, it should sound so so so much better than a $5 KZ ATR. They don't.


 
  
 Same opinion. The SE215 sound great, but compared to the KZ price tags, they should have a much better built quality and a more refined sound. And they have some bass distortion when coupled with high-powered amps and DAPs. 
  
 Moreover, and this is personal, they hurt the hell out of my ear canals when I wear them for more than half an hour. I mean, the kind of pain you get with an otitis media, and that lasts for one day or so. Tip rolling won't work. I guess it's the length and the angle of the nozzles together with the stiffness of the memory wire, that pulls the shells out, levering the nozzles against my canals. This is sad, because they are the most expensive IEMs in my collection. Maybe this was the reason I started buying the KZs and others alike.


----------



## Podster

Well for me and I'm just speaking my ears here, the SE215 does not sound like any of my dozen KZ so I can't even do a comparo with them but I will say what helped my SE215's was changing out to a silver plated cable. I've always thought the lower level Shures sounded kind of distant and veiled in comparison to many of the budget iem's we all like and have. For me the silver plate really opened my SE215's up and brought most freq's forward with more detail clarity but YMMV
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Plus it being Susan G. Komen month and being a survivor of this dreaded disease (not breast) myself I do support the cause
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 And not to stray from the thread I'd better post one of theirs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 And still my overall favorite KZ to this day


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


>


 
  
 Are those Fidue A31s tips? I use them on my SE215 DIY. And for something on topic;
  
​  ​ Micro Ring For The Win!​  ​ I really wish KZ would bring it back. Such a great little earphone. The HDS2 just can't fill their shoes in the tip-mounted micro-driver sphere.


----------



## RvTrav

Ten days ago I provided initial impressions of the HD9.  After spending some time with the HD9 I would to expand on my opinions of this earphone.  Although the HD9 seems to be well built it doesn't seemed that KZ paid the same level of attention to the build as it did the ATR.  Where the two pieces of the housing fit together on the ATR the fit is smooth where on the HD9 you can feel an edge where the fit is not exact.  The cable is the same on both but the strain relief on the ATR is a combination of metal and hard plastic and the HD9 has rubbery strain relief that might actually provide better protection to the cable. 
 In my initial impressions I noted that the mids where more forward on the HD9 than on the ATR.  After 48 hrs of burn in on both the HD9 and ATR I feel that mids opened up a little on the ATR but the mids on the HD9 are still quite a bit more forward than on the ATR.  What I originally did not notice but have since realized is that the treble is also more forward on the HD9.
 In my initial impressions I also noted that the base in the HD9 was tighter and more controlled.  I also now feel that the base on the HD9 is also slightly louder on the HD9 than the ATR.  What has surprised me is that from other earphones I have found that earphones with tighter base usually have diminished sub base.  With the HD9 however I found the sub base was about equal to the ATR.
 So to put this all together I find that the HD9 has a more aggressive forward sound that makes the HD9 fun, with a sound signature that gets your foot tapping and keeps you engaged in the music.  I find that ATR is more relaxed and mellow. 
 I know my preferences are towards an earphone that doesn't have the mids recessed so of these two earphones my preference is the HD9.  I don't know what your preference is but the HD9 is an option that some might find enjoyable.


----------



## haiku

tw1s said:


> which kz under $15 is the best ? ate s ?


 
 Which is "best", oh well.....
 I personally don´t ask myself this question anymore. I´ve had quite a journey this year, coming from Senns HD558, the HD600, Hifiman 400s, VE Monks, all (!) currently available Seahf earbud models, K´s earphone 500Ohm, 1More Piston Classic IEM, 1More earbuds, to KZ ATE (which already blew me away compared to all the others I´ve mentioned), KZ ZS3 and then the ATE S, which I love and listen with all of the time now, except when I plug in the ATE every once in a while. So, why do I love the ATE S, when I have the HD600 and the K´s, which are considered to be so much better by most other head-fi members? Simply, because it is the only one, which gives me maximum enjoyment from all (!) my music. When I´ve listened with the other phones, I´ve noticed that I only listened to some albums, while avoiding others. With the ATE S, it´s the combination of delivering deep, powerful bass, subbass and smooth highs, which make all my recordings highly enjoyable. It gives me a constant kinda "cozy" feeling, no matter which album I´m listening to. That said, I´m also aware that the AK300 Dap + AK380 Amp are responsible for that outstanding subbass performance, too.


----------



## dilidani

Guys, pls help!  
 Just got my 8 USD ZS3 from gearbest. Super awesome, but only one pair of my wide bore tips fit!  All of my wide bore tips slide off from that little tube, so I would like to have one with either a little narrower entrance, or an entrance with a lip to fix the position of the tip. Narrow tips just dont work for me on this pair of earphones.. :/


----------



## tw1s

thank you , i will go probably for ate s  , but i like REMAX RM-565i


----------



## Ruben123

So guys, hard decision. Getting rid of most of my kzs. Experiencing what spending twice a KZ can give you in the vivo 800 I have no reason as a student to have many inferior earphones. I keep a few. ATR & ZS3 sound almost the same though i like the ZS3's fit more. I keep the hds1 too which I rediscovered, shame they are no $4 anymore. Seems they're not made anymore or so. With the Monoprices and vivo I have no reason to keep the ed9.

If KZ comes with anything nice again I'll sure try it though!! I'm staying on the ship


----------



## Brian Coffey

ruben123 said:


> So guys, hard decision. Getting rid of most of my kzs. Experiencing what spending twice a KZ can give you in the vivo 800 I have no reason as a student to have many inferior earphones. I keep a few. ATR & ZS3 sound almost the same though i like the ZS3's fit more. I keep the hds1 too which I rediscovered, shame they are no $4 anymore. Seems they're not made anymore or so. With the Monoprices and vivo I have no reason to keep the ed9.
> 
> If KZ comes with anything nice again I'll sure try it though!! I'm staying on the ship


 
 Far as I know they are still making the HDS1. I just got some in 3 days ago


----------



## squallkiercosa

I've been following KZ for a while. I liked some of their models but the resemblance with other popular brands made me question whether I wanted to sport a very similar model or trust on a chinese unknown company. Vsonic had my back at the time and I'm still very happy with the sound they provide.
 Funny thing: I don't believe in cables but almost all my IEMs have detachable cables, and firmly believe every manufacturer should follow the trend. 
  
 I got the ZS3 and the ZST last week. Both are surprisingly comfortable (at least to my medium size ears) and they look distinctive enough to develop brand identity.
  
 Short review:
 The Bass on the ZST is clearly more detailed and wins by a gross margin, the treble overall is more spacious but very subdue, voices are too distant. The sound signature is not my favorite but it's not offensive or difficult to get used to. They definitely look like CIEMs if you care about looks.
  
 The ZS3 has a more interesting sound signature, but sound a bit flat in comparison. Tonality wise they are more natural than the ZST, the form factor looks and feels more comfortable. For everyday use, I might certainly go with the zs3. I believe they are a steal from GB, I'm planning to buy at least one more and keep it as a gift. 
  
 I'm eager to see what the future holds for KZ.


----------



## squyzz

My ZST (banggood pre-order) has been shipped yesterday


----------



## RvTrav

FYI       KZ-ED12 on sale at gearbest for $7.98 US.


----------



## doggiemom

rvtrav said:


> FYI       KZ-ED12 on sale at gearbest for $7.98 US.


 

 I fell for that one.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I had the ED12s on my wishlist or favorites list or whatever they call it, and they emailed me announcing the price cut.  Since shipping is free......


----------



## Redcarmoose

Somewhere on Head-Fi and maybe this thread I read about a tip modification. The paragraph I read is a little blurry in memory but I will attempt to explain what the mod was about. ??


This only works with IEMs with giant nozzles like the ATE.

You take a small or medium small tip and place it backwards then put a regular larger tip on and it goes over the small tip and seals.


At first it would not work until I cut almost the entire inner tube off the small IEM tip. Then it went on leaving enough room for the larger tip to go on in regular fashion.


What it does.



It gets you a silicone tip to start to have the outward support pressure of a foam tip. The inner reversed tip pushes out right at the apex, but under the apex area which comes into contact with your ear canal.

I wish I knew which member came up with this because I would like to thank them. It's pure genius and has completely changed the ATE experience for me. Still I liked it before but now,..........,,,,,I'm in tears.

What it looks like like.









The clean one cut with a ceramic knife, the other scissors.


----------



## haiku

The ATE S scales much better than the ATE. Unless you listen to mp3/4 or 16/44 the difference is not so obvious (except that the ATE S has improved bass performance), but once you come into High Res territory, the ATE S still shines while the limitations of the ATE are clearly audible, especially in the highs.


----------



## Ruben123

haiku said:


> The ATE S scales much better than the ATE. Unless you listen to mp3/4 or 16/44 the difference is not so obvious (except that the ATE S has improved bass performance), but once you come into High Res territory, the ATE S still shines while the limitations of the ATE are clearly audible, especially in the highs.




I'm glad that you like the ateS but it won't sound different between 44k or high res IF the master is the same which most of the time it isn't, so you're not hearing higher resolution, just another tweaked master. I even wonder if the kzs are even able to reproduce sound above 16khz, let alone above 22 which is high res, not to speak about your ears not able to hear anything above 18k or so....


----------



## dilidani

Guys, i received my kz zs 3 at the weekend and after 10-20 hrs of burn in I have to say, they are bass shy for me. Coming from rock zircons, house trance trap hardstyle etc listener here. The main problem is the lack of nozzle at the end of the bore, so all my real wide bore tips just slip off, what a pity!! So edm fans... It's not the most suitable iem for some of us. Have to admit, it has lot better mids than zircons, but I eq up the bass even on zircons, so... Haha  maybe I'm too bass hungry


----------



## Vidal

dilidani said:


> Guys, i received my kz zs 3 at the weekend and after 10-20 hrs of burn in I have to say, they are bass shy for me. Coming from rock zircons, house trance trap hardstyle etc listener here. The main problem is the lack of nozzle at the end of the bore, so all my real wide bore tips just slip off, what a pity!! So edm fans... It's not the most suitable iem for some of us. Have to admit, it has lot better mids than zircons, but I eq up the bass even on zircons, so... Haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Try Tennmak Dulcimer or Banjo, they're a lot more bassy than the ATE


----------



## fonkepala

The ZS3 has more than enough bass for my taste  however, they do give me this weird pressurized sensation in my left ear. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## dilidani

deleted.


----------



## dilidani

vidal said:


> Try Tennmak Dulcimer or Banjo, they're a lot more bassy than the ATE


 
 Tennmak Pro maybe? It looks soo nice and has replacable cable. Im a bit rough on my iems, my second pair of zircons died on me in 2-3 months  (tho having NO strain relief at the plug is plain nonsense..)


----------



## Vidal

dilidani said:


> Tennmak Pro maybe? It looks soo nice and has replacable cable. Im a bit rough on my iems, my second pair of zircons died on me in 2-3 months  (tho having NO strain relief at the plug is plain nonsense..)


 
  
 Pro doesn't have the bass of the Banjo/Dulcimer. The Pro might but it's that long since I had one of those I'm not sure how it compares.


----------



## bendrexl

> Originally Posted by *1clearhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This sounds like the same QC issue I first experienced and reported several months ago on the ZS3 where the "inner tuning port" is bent, or out of place.
> 
> YES!!! --> Exchange them!


 
  
 Got my replacement ZS3 set in the mail this weekend - I just took the left earpiece and plugged it in place of the suspected-defective one, and everything sounds right   Wasn't the tip, cable, or my ears.
  
 I definitely need to get some foam tips though, even the small ones are too much over long periods.


----------



## Paulo099

redcarmoose said:


> Somewhere on Head-Fi and maybe this thread I read about a tip modification. The paragraph I read is a little blurry in memory but I will attempt to explain what the mod was about. ??
> 
> 
> This only works with IEMs with giant nozzles like the ATE.
> ...


 
 Can you post some step by step pictures? I'm having a hard time doing it. Forgive me for being dumb.


----------



## mebaali

Received my ATR (bought from GearBest), this morning. I've been listening to these since then (with JVC spiral dot large size tips) using Foobar2000 (on a 3 years old Laptop) with a mix of recent Tamil feature film tracks (MP3 320kbps). These, to my ears, sound very clean, having a similar relaxing sound signature as in my older ATE (inaugural version). Bass (Mid-bass) seems well-controlled (still appears the strongest suit of these) without any bleeding onto mids, vocals are natural (may be a tad recessed?), treble presence seems a bit more than it is in my ATE (too smoothed out treble in them). Imaging and Instrument separation are decent. Soundstage width is average. I am listening to music at 30% system volume with these. At under 5 US$ (shipped), this is a decent buy.


----------



## Redcarmoose

paulo099 said:


> Can you post some step by step pictures? I'm having a hard time doing it. Forgive me for being dumb.





Those are the steps. The photos show some smaller tips inside out. The rubber nozzles are pointing up. You cut those off as close as possible to the base. You then put them on the ATE backwards then the hard part which is putting your normal silicone tips around the forward facing ones. I ruined my first set of small tips by cutting too close, but any sharp kitchen knife will work. You have to really look and make sure the cut is smooth and even. I did one with sissiors and one with a knife and the knife is 100% better.

This mod would be for people who have a hard time getting a seal because the ATE nozzles are massive. The inner reversed tip causes the second pair of original tips to stay farther out. The same effect can occur with small O rings before your tips are put on.

The sound seemed less dramatic going back a forth today, also I'm still trying to get a handle on how the sound of the IEMs change. One thing though is because of the outward pressure they stay in place like crazy.

Good luck.


I really think it both pulls the mids a little and pulls the bass a lot, though my opinion could change.


----------



## Jacob McCauley

crabdog said:


> Still nobody tried the KZ Bluetooth earphones?


 
 I've had them for about a week now and have used them off and on. They are decent, but unfortunately not quite as good as I had hoped. Build quality seems pretty good, the controls and microphone work well, but the sound signature is a little unbalanced. They are not overly bass heavy by any means, but provide a decent amount, although a little muddy. Mids aren't too detailed but are present enough. The highs are my biggest complaint. They just have an odd sound to them and seem to be missing some important frequencies. They are also perhaps just less detailed then I am used to on other BT earphones, but nevertheless the highs for me make these earphones only good enough for a backup pair. Still, I need to test them a little more. 
  
 Personally I recommend the QCY QY19 as they are a very similar design to these, but the sound quality is far better with the price only a tad more than these (Gearbest pricing). I own around 25 or so different Chinese BT earphones and there are some great ones out there, but I hope KZ revises these in the near future or has a redesign. It is their first try though and their track record does show they often learn and improve so fingers crossed!


----------



## Redcarmoose

paulo099 said:


> Can you post some step by step pictures? I'm having a hard time doing it. Forgive me for being dumb.




The other thing is study the first picture as that shows how they look when everything is put together. Also notice the one picture with the backwards tip. That is what will be inside of your regular large tip. You may though have to push the smaller tip all the way back before being able to add your regular tip, as that is what I had to do today. You then have to nurse the small tip to extend back into shape under your regular tip.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Also I don't know how this tip mod would work if someone used medium tips. It would not work with small tips unless someone could find extra small tips to fit under.


----------



## KipNix

ruben123 said:


> So guys, hard decision. Getting rid of most of my kzs. Experiencing what spending twice a KZ can give you in the vivo 800 I have no reason as a student to have many inferior earphones. I keep a few. ATR & ZS3 sound almost the same though i like the ZS3's fit more. I keep the hds1 too which I rediscovered, shame they are no $4 anymore. Seems they're not made anymore or so. With the Monoprices and vivo I have no reason to keep the ed9.
> 
> If KZ comes with anything nice again I'll sure try it though!! I'm staying on the ship


 
 That's pretty much my position now. I would describe the ZS3 as a "mild V-shape", with accurate bass. They're not for bassheads. They fit better than my other IEMs, using pseudo-Comply tips from Ali.
  
 It's like I have IEMs for all occasions now, including DT5 and ZS3. If I want pop, funk, or hard rock, I could reach for the DT5. Prog Rock, symphony, and audio books could get ZS3.
  
 KZ is making better-engineered products at ridiculous prices; the KZ force is strong on Kip.
  
 And, of course...
  
 YMMV.


----------



## tw1s

Which one  would u choose? KZ ATES,ZS3,ED9,Tennmak Dulcimer, Rock Zircon,Superlux HD381F, Takstar H60,Mannhas E170,C190


----------



## loomisjohnson

tw1s said:


> Which one  would u choose? KZ ATES,ZS3,ED9,Tennmak Dulcimer, Rock Zircon,Superlux HD381F, Takstar H60,Mannhas E170,C190


 

 if i had to pick one (and not knowing your taste) i'd take the dulcimer--great clarity and coherence + monster bass. the ed9 would be my second pick. i haven't heard the takstar or mannhas


----------



## haiku

tw1s said:


> Which one  would u choose? KZ ATES,ZS3,ED9,Tennmak Dulcimer, Rock Zircon,Superlux HD381F, Takstar H60,Mannhas E170,C190


 

 If you like a fun and tubey sounding iem, with big bass and subbass and a good soundstage, get the ATE S.


----------



## tw1s

takstar is for basshead and mannhas for vocal , i like rap , I will use only for  the phone


----------



## thmarci

Can anybody compare a Joyroom e103 with a Rock Zircon or with a KZ HDS1/ZN1/ZS3/ZST ?
 Im thinking about buying one, and I read good things about it... But I would like to read some comparison between my owned earphones.


----------



## Ruben123

kipnix said:


> That's pretty much my position now. I would describe the ZS3 as a "mild V-shape", with accurate bass. They're not for bassheads. They fit better than my other IEMs, using pseudo-Comply tips from Ali.
> 
> It's like I have IEMs for all occasions now, including DT5 and ZS3. If I want pop, funk, or hard rock, I could reach for the DT5. Prog Rock, symphony, and audio books could get ZS3.
> 
> ...




Yes the KZ earphones are addicting. They're all good and I like all i have/had, but at a certain moment, listening to the Vivo,i thought: well, this is just what I'm looking for in a KZ. Just exactly that. I care about a flat fr and they are. Why keep all kzs then? I'm a student after all. Why couldn't I be happy with fewer earphones? - is what I say now, I've rebought the ed9 3 times already. Doing it away and months later regretting it. Now I've got to keep strong lol


----------



## dilidani

Guys, ZS3 bass problems seem to lessen.. switched to L sized tips (from Rock Zircon) with shallow insertion. Though I dont like shallow fit that much, will give this ZS3 a chance tomorrow while commuting.


----------



## zabunny94

thmarci said:


> Can anybody compare a Joyroom e103 with a Rock Zircon or with a KZ HDS1/ZN1/ZS3/ZST ?
> 
> Im thinking about buying one, and I read good things about it... But I would like to read some comparison between my owned earphones.




i happen to have joyroom e103 and rock zircon... also had hds1

in my ears e103 feels like ate albeit with sharper high. i hate the eartips that came with it though

zircon can be summed up with one word : BASS
but with the right tips, you can greatly decrease it though. using tips with big hole can turn this bass monster into a decent V-shape one
amazing build quality on the housing, but many people reported that the right side stopped working after few months, coincidentally the same side as microphone. I guess the joint between right housing and mic is the most fragile part. 
also, the most pleasing iem to hear asmr videos on sub $15. if you don't know this thing, find it on youtube and you can thank me later

had the hds1, though i can just borrow my brother's pair when i meet him(it's like his favorite kz iem). from my memory, hds1 doesn't have sub bass and has a smooth treble like ate. also, it doesn't seems isolate sound much to me maybe because of the small housing, small nozzle and the open back design...


----------



## Ruben123

Anyone who think's the zs3s bass insufficient, listen to Michael Jackson's Liberian girl. Stunning. Why would you even need/want more bass!! Lol I know some of you crawl for the most bass,i think that's something I'll never understand... It ruins the music for me


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Anyone who think's the zs3s bass insufficient, listen to Michael Jackson's Liberian girl. Stunning. Why would you even need/want more bass!! Lol I know some of you crawl for the most bass,i think that's something I'll never understand... It ruins the music for me


 
  
 Agreed. ZS3 has plenty of bass. More than I like, usually. Sometimes I'm in the mood for some skull crushing bass, but I have the original ZS1 for that


----------



## rockingthearies

Don't think the ZS3 have insufficient bass too, for those that say the ZS3 have too much bass, i think it is because the treble is too recessed on the ZS3 eqing up the treble or eq down the bass should do the job


----------



## acidophilus

9 weeks later, my ZS3s just arrived. Unfortunately, I just came down with a case vof vestibular neuritis, so I'm gonna refrain from sticking things in my ear for a while. Anyway, is there something I should do to break these in? I'm not really a big audiophile but since I have this extra downtime,I might as well.What method should I use? White noise? Leaving it on a playlist? What volume?


----------



## jipan

acidophilus said:


> 9 weeks later, my ZS3s just arrived. Unfortunately, I just came down with a case vof vestibular neuritis, so I'm gonna refrain from sticking things in my ear for a while. Anyway, is there something I should do to break these in? I'm not really a big audiophile but since I have this extra downtime,I might as well.What method should I use? White noise? Leaving it on a playlist? What volume?


 

 I believe most users here just let it play some musics at your usual volume. No need to stress it too much (like using max volume or something).


----------



## doggiemom

acidophilus said:


> 9 weeks later, my ZS3s just arrived. Unfortunately, I just came down with a case vof vestibular neuritis, so I'm gonna refrain from sticking things in my ear for a while. Anyway, is there something I should do to break these in? I'm not really a big audiophile but since I have this extra downtime,I might as well.What method should I use? White noise? Leaving it on a playlist? What volume?


 

 You made me Google "vestibular neuritis."  Get well soon!


----------



## dilidani

ruben123 said:


> Anyone who think's the zs3s bass insufficient, listen to Michael Jackson's Liberian girl. Stunning. Why would you even need/want more bass!! Lol I know some of you crawl for the most bass,i think that's something I'll never understand... It ruins the music for me



Different strokes for different folks  I like my music with impactful bass definitely being the most prominent. BUT seahf eg009 iem was yesterday sent to my country from China, hope it will be another kicker after the zircons.


----------



## Euljiro

fonkepala said:


> The ZS3 has more than enough bass for my taste
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have the ZS3, ZST, and ATE. I have a severe fit issue with the ZS3. I also have this pressurized feelings on both ears but more so on the left. These just don't fit my ears at all, the connectors rub against the side of my ears all the time. It is a shame, I like the sound of the ZS3 quite a bit. The tips keep getting stuck inside my ears also.

 The ZS3 and ZST made the ATE (my first KZ) quite incompetent for me.
  
 Is it just me or these KZs really need to be burnt in before they reach their true characteristics?


----------



## Ruben123

euljiro said:


> I have the ZS3, ZST, and ATE. I have a severe fit issue with the ZS3. I also have this pressurized feelings on both ears but more so on the left. These just don't fit my ears at all, the connectors rub against the side of my ears all the time. It is a shame, I like the sound of the ZS3 quite a bit. The tips keep getting stuck inside my ears also.
> 
> The ZS3 and ZST made the ATE (my first KZ) quite incompetent for me.
> 
> Is it just me or these KZs really need to be burnt in before they reach their true characteristics?


 

 Try those double flange tips which are much longer than normal tips. Also when inserted, pull your ear a bit so air can get in your ear canal. Problem solved probably.


----------



## Euljiro

ruben123 said:


> Try those double flange tips which are much longer than normal tips. Also when inserted, pull your ear a bit so air can get in your ear canal. Problem solved probably.


 
 I will try playing around with the different tips a bit more. Still love them to bits. Thanks.


----------



## mints

out of all the kzs i own
 i love the sound of zs3 and ate the most
 basssssssss
 what's a good cable for zs3 w/o memory wire?
 i don't like no memory on my wires!!


----------



## Euljiro

Has anyone tried the TFZ Series 5 and compared to any of the KZs? Heard the Series 5 is super bassy. I understand they are at a different price point, but if we learn anything from KZ IEMs, the price isn't everything, is it.


----------



## Paulo099

redcarmoose said:


> Those are the steps. The photos show some smaller tips inside out. The rubber nozzles are pointing up. You cut those off as close as possible to the base. You then put them on the ATE backwards then the hard part which is putting your normal silicone tips around the forward facing ones. I ruined my first set of small tips by cutting too close, but any sharp kitchen knife will work. You have to really look and make sure the cut is smooth and even. I did one with sissiors and one with a knife and the knife is 100% better.
> 
> This mod would be for people who have a hard time getting a seal because the ATE nozzles are massive. The inner reversed tip causes the second pair of original tips to stay farther out. The same effect can occur with small O rings before your tips are put on.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh I get it now. My friend actually has a KZ ATE and I have the KZ ED9 and I love the sound of the ATE as much as my ED9. I was doing this so I can try it on his. I would probably just do this when I finally bought my pair of KZ ATE or ATR. Thanks!


----------



## Paulo099

Guys can you help me out picking which is better out of these iems? I already have the KZ ED9 and they sound fantastic but the mids sounds a little bit recessed for me. I'm looking for a mid-forward iem and somewhat also bassy but not basshead level and a smooth treble. I'm also planning to buy a Fiio K1 with one of these iems. Hope you can help me.
 1) KZ ATR
 2) KZ ATE
 3) KZ ZS3
 4) KZ ZST


----------



## Ruben123

paulo099 said:


> Guys can you help me out picking which is better out of these iems? I already have the KZ ED9 and they sound fantastic but the mids sounds a little bit recessed for me. I'm looking for a mid-forward iem and somewhat also bassy but not basshead level and a smooth treble. I'm also planning to buy a Fiio K1 with one of these iems. Hope you can help me.
> 1) KZ ATR
> 2) KZ ATE
> 3) KZ ZS3
> 4) KZ ZST


 
 ED9 mids recessed?! But how then? ATE/ATR would be a nice cheap companion though the ZS3 is a sort of upgrade to the ATR (relatively then)


----------



## Paulo099

ruben123 said:


> ED9 mids recessed?! But how then? ATE/ATR would be a nice cheap companion though the ZS3 is a sort of upgrade to the ATR (relatively then)


 
 Compared to my LG Quadbeat 3 they sound recessed especially when it comes to male vocals, violins, guitars and pianos. The album I tested to compare both earphones is One Republic's album Oh My My. There, I noticed the recessed mids of the ED9 using both filters.

 Does the ZS3's bass bleed into the mids though? And how's the cable compared to the ATR?


----------



## TheSweeney

Got my first order from gearbest today. China>UK in 10 days... not bad at all.
 The thing is I bought a pair of Tennmak Pros while waiting for my KZ's to arrive and I like the pros so much I'm not in much of a hurry to try the KZs I bought.
 So I thought I would see if anyone wants to trade/swap while they are still new. If no-one wants to swap I'll try/use 1 or 2 pair and keep the others as spares (like I originally intended).
  
 As a new member (long time lurker) I cant post in the sales/trades section so....
 I am willing to send first if you are a trusted member on Headfi (preferably with a good track record for sales/swaps).
  
 Up for grabs:
 2x pair of ZS3 with mic
 2x pair of ATR w/o mic
  
 Brand new, delivered today. The ATR's had no shrink wrapping on but the ZS3s did, although I have removed the wrap from 1 ZS3 to check contents.
  
 I would be looking to swap all or some of the above for something that sounds similar to the tennmak pro's....or possibly **** 4in1s, KZ ZST, etc open to suggestions but would want something that sounds at least slightly similar to the tennmaks.
  
 Again I am happy to post the earphones first if you are a trusted/long-standing headfi member.
  
 ***Alternatively... (and to keep this from going off-topic) If anyone here owns the Tennmak Pro's and the ZS3 or ATR, could you please tell me whether or not I should be trying the ZS3 or ATR considering I Love the sound of the tennmaks so much?***
  
 Thanks in advance for any advice on that, and sorry for the long first post... also I would like to point out that I am not trying to sell the KZs (for profit or not) I would rather trade them if anything.


----------



## haiku

I wish KZ would sell the silicone tips separately, too. The seal´s excellent.


----------



## fonkepala

haiku said:


> I wish KZ would sell the silicone tips separately, too. The seal´s excellent.




The KZ silicone tips are ok, but the 'foam' tips that were included with my ATE and ATE-S are terrible. Hard, not flexible and they don't shrink when you pinch them. Not memory foam at all I think. More akin to rubberized foam, that's all I can come up with now.


----------



## haiku

fonkepala said:


> The KZ silicone tips are ok, but the 'foam' tips that were included with my ATE and ATE-S are terrible. Hard, not flexible and they don't shrink when you pinch them. Not memory foam at all I think. More akin to rubberized foam, that's all I can come up with now.


 

 All  foam tips I´ve tried so far, incl. the KZ, were horrible. They always push the iem out of my ear, no matter how deep I push them in.


----------



## Ruben123

haiku said:


> I wish KZ would sell the silicone tips separately, too. The seal´s excellent.


 

 They do.


----------



## fonkepala

haiku said:


> All  foam tips I´ve tried so far, incl. the KZ, were horrible. They always push the iem out of my ear, no matter how deep I push them in.


 
  
 Original Comply foam tips work well for me. They have knock off versions of Comply foam tips on Ali, I haven't tried those yet. Have you?


----------



## fonkepala

euljiro said:


> I have the ZS3, ZST, and ATE. I have a severe fit issue with the ZS3. I also have this pressurized feelings on both ears but more so on the left. These just don't fit my ears at all, the connectors rub against the side of my ears all the time. It is a shame, I like the sound of the ZS3 quite a bit. The tips keep getting stuck inside my ears also.
> 
> The ZS3 and ZST made the ATE (my first KZ) quite incompetent for me.
> 
> Is it just me or these KZs really need to be burnt in before they reach their true characteristics?


 
  
 Same here.  The ZS3 gives a more pressurized feeling in my left ear. Right ear seems ok. Weird because it happens with both the stock silicone KZ tips and also with JVC Spiral Dots.
  
 So you like the ZS3 and ZST more than your ATE?
  
 I had a listen with my ZS3 during a commute yesterday, somehow I found the ZS3 sounded a bit boomy and mid-recessed. And that's after a day of burning in. Funny because I remember when I tried them OOTB they sounded better then. Not sure what's going on. Could be that now I prefer the way my ATR sounds.


----------



## Ruben123

fonkepala said:


> Same here.  The ZS3 gives a more pressurized feeling in my left ear. Right ear seems ok. Weird because it happens with both the stock silicone KZ tips and also with JVC Spiral Dots.
> 
> So you like the ZS3 and ZST more than your ATE?
> 
> I had a listen with my ZS3 during a commute yesterday, somehow I found the ZS3 sounded a bit boomy and mid-recessed. And that's after a day of burning in. Funny because I remember when I tried them OOTB they sounded better then. Not sure what's going on. Could be that now I prefer the way my ATR sounds.


 

 To me, both sound somewhat the same (same characteristics) though both with wide bore tips. Also as I said earlier try to relieve pressure out of your ear canal by pulling your ear once you have a seal to let air in.


----------



## Euljiro

paulo099 said:


> Guys can you help me out picking which is better out of these iems? I already have the KZ ED9 and they sound fantastic but the mids sounds a little bit recessed for me. I'm looking for a mid-forward iem and somewhat also bassy but not basshead level and a smooth treble. I'm also planning to buy a Fiio K1 with one of these iems. Hope you can help me.
> 1) KZ ATR
> 2) KZ ATE
> 3) KZ ZS3
> 4) KZ ZST


 
 I would definitely recommend you to try the ZST, the one with hybrid drivers. I never tried the ATR. The ATE feels like they have an L shape to my ears. Lots of bass and subbass but bloomy, mid recessed, and not so sparkly highs. The ZS3 have a slight V shape for me. Bloomy bass though, but definitely great subbass, great for EDM. I hear the mids more pronounced with the ZST, just brighter in general. The tightest bass among all the KZs but lacking in the subbass department. I like these the most with female vocals. ZST has the best resolution I feel. I cant compare with the ED9 since i never heard them.


----------



## To.M

ruben123 said:


> They do.




I ordered those:
http://s.aliexpress.com/eMV3Ibya


----------



## Euljiro

fonkepala said:


> Same here.  The ZS3 gives a more pressurized feeling in my left ear. Right ear seems ok. Weird because it happens with both the stock silicone KZ tips and also with JVC Spiral Dots.
> 
> So you like the ZS3 and ZST more than your ATE?
> 
> I had a listen with my ZS3 during a commute yesterday, somehow I found the ZS3 sounded a bit boomy and mid-recessed. And that's after a day of burning in. Funny because I remember when I tried them OOTB they sounded better then. Not sure what's going on. Could be that now I prefer the way my ATR sounds.


 
 I will try out the ZS3 with different tips and see again. I like the sound just cant wear them for long.
  
 The ZST on the other hand fits my ears very nicely. quite a different sound to the ZS3 though. Much brighter, much more detailed, tighter and much more controlled bass.
  
 If you think the ATR sounds similar to the ZS3, I think I will give the ATR a try, perhaps they will fit me better. ATE fits me just fine, should be similar right?


----------



## TheSweeney

Anyone here own the ZS3's and/or the ATR's along with Tennmak Pro's? Could you compare the sound of the KZs to the tennmaks? Or let me know if its worth trying the KZs (I Love the sound of the Tennmaks)?? do they sound at all similar?


----------



## Ruben123

euljiro said:


> I will try out the ZS3 with different tips and see again. I like the sound just cant wear them for long.
> 
> The ZST on the other hand fits my ears very nicely. quite a different sound to the ZS3 though. Much brighter, much more detailed, tighter and much more controlled bass.
> 
> If you think the ATR sounds similar to the ZS3, I think I will give the ATR a try, perhaps they will fit me better. ATE fits me just fine, should be similar right?


 

 whut something positive about the zst???? please tell us more!


----------



## Marzman

Hey folks, first time poster here. I started coming to these forums last Spring when I needed to find some cheap iem to use after our church got rid of our wedge speaker monitors. I ended up getting the ZN1 with amp. I figured that would be nice if I was on stage and needed to fine tune my bass and treble during service. A few problems cropped up. First, the amp box isn't necessary. The phones sounded great to me even in passive mode. There was plenty of volume, punch, and sparkle without the amp box. It just added weight and made the whole unit cumbersome. Then there were the issues of the short, grabby cable that leads to the amp box that hangs on everything, like my guitar strap. Basically I had an amazing sounding unit that was no fun to use in real life. So, this month, I ordered the ZN1 mini. I figured that would be perfect... The great sounding unit without the stupid amp. The problem is that the mini doesn't sound as good! Mids seem boosted and treble is a little veiled. Any ideas what could be the reason? It's supposed to be the same drivers and same shell, but something's off. With the zn1, everything just sounds great. With the mini, it's like something is always missing. The mini does have a thinner cable, which is less cumbersome, but it's still very grabby. The cable is actually very long, much longer than the zn1 cable. Is there a burn in period after which I can expect the mini to sound like its older brother? I can't say for sure if the zn1 sounded different 6 months ago when it was new, it just sounds wonderful at this point. Now the mini isn't a bad earphone. I'm using it now, actually, on some Pink Floyd. It's only in comparison that I know something is off. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thanks!


----------



## KipNix

fonkepala said:


> Original Comply foam tips work well for me. They have knock off versions of Comply foam tips on Ali, I haven't tried those yet. Have you?


 
  
 Yes. 88 cents a pair from Original Earphones, for T-100, T-200, or T-400. I don't know if they are genuine Comply, but they work well for me in my ZS3 and DZAT.


----------



## haiku

fonkepala said:


> Original Comply foam tips work well for me. They have knock off versions of Comply foam tips on Ali, I haven't tried those yet. Have you?


 

 I´ve bought some Comply from Amazon. Didn´t like them at all.


----------



## fonkepala

euljiro said:


> I will try out the ZS3 with different tips and see again. I like the sound just cant wear them for long.
> 
> The ZST on the other hand fits my ears very nicely. quite a different sound to the ZS3 though. Much brighter, much more detailed, tighter and much more controlled bass.
> 
> If you think the ATR sounds similar to the ZS3, I think I will give the ATR a try, perhaps they will fit me better. ATE fits me just fine, should be similar right?


 
  
 Interesting what you said about the ZST. Makes me want to try them out. This is one of the rare times something positive has been said about the ZST, I think.
  
 Nope, I didn't say the ZS3 sounds similar to the ATR, I said now I prefer the way the ATR sounds rather than the ZS3. The ZS3 sound a bit too bloomy and less detailed for me. The ATR is worth a try for the asking price. You might like them.
  


kipnix said:


> Yes. 88 cents a pair from Original Earphones, for T-100, T-200, or T-400. I don't know if they are genuine Comply, but they work well for me in my ZS3 and DZAT.


 
 Yup, that's the one. I'll buy some and compare them to original Comply tips.
  


haiku said:


> I´ve bought some Comply from Amazon. Didn´t like them at all.


 
  
 Yes, some people like them, some don't. As with everything else in this hobby


----------



## bendrexl

thesweeney said:


> Brand new, delivered today. The ATR's had no shrink wrapping on but the ZS3s did, although I have removed the wrap from 1 ZS3 to check contents.


 
  
 I'd recommend listening to both sets of the ZS3s right away, just to make sure they both work right in case you need to return / exchange. There have been a few cases of QC issues with one or both earphones sounding broken with the ZS3.


----------



## bendrexl

euljiro said:


> I will try out the ZS3 with different tips and see again. I like the sound just cant wear them for long.


 
  
 I'm in the same boat - I have no complaints whatsoever with the sound of my ZS3, and the noise isolation is amazing (better than some safety earplugs!). But after a week using them at the office, I'm still not used to the feel - they're just plain big. Both the housings and the tips included.
  
 I'm going to order some KZ foam tips and the comply-clones anyway, but I'm also tempted to try something like the ED10 or DT5, something smaller.  
  
 The ED10s look really nice IMO, and very compact - how would the compare w/ the ZS3 sound?


----------



## toddy0191

thesweeney said:


> Anyone here own the ZS3's and/or the ATR's along with Tennmak Pro's? Could you compare the sound of the KZs to the tennmaks? Or let me know if its worth trying the KZs (I Love the sound of the Tennmaks)?? do they sound at all similar?




Mids are more recessed on zs3 and the pros are much more detailed and natural sounding.

The pros are way better IMO


----------



## TheSweeney

Duly noted, cheers for the info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... however, I thought the qc issues were only in the first batch(es) after release? I read through all of this thread since the zs3 release date and figured that the latest batches were all ok and all qc issues were resolved


----------



## TheSweeney

Cheers bud, I figured as much. As soon as I heard the Pro's I thought they would be hard to beat (for my tastes)... any recommendations on what sounds similar to the pro's only 'better'? preferably in the same price range if such a iem exists.
 Thanks


----------



## toddy0191

thesweeney said:


> Cheers bud, I figured as much. As soon as I heard the Pro's I thought they would be hard to beat (for my tastes)... any recommendations on what sounds similar to the pro's only 'better'? preferably in the same price range if such a iem exists.
> Thanks




If you can find the LZ A2S cheap ever they have a similar signature but are more refined. They're BA and DD hybrid. If you like the pros, you would love them.

You may also like the vivo xe800 available for around £14. They're brighter than the pros with less bass but have beautiful mids.

My 4 favourites are:
Tennmak pros
Lz a2s
Vivo xe800
**** 4in1


----------



## TheSweeney

Cheers Toddy, much appreciated.
 I've read a few good things about the 4-in1s but havnt done any research on any of your other suggestions. From what you've said the LZ A2S sound perfect. I'm off to do some reading - thanks for the pointers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 To get this slightly back on topic - I have 2x new ZS3 with mic and 2x new ATRs up for trade


----------



## harry501501

mebaali said:


> Received my ATR (bought from GearBest), this morning. I've been listening to these since then (with JVC spiral dot large size tips) using Foobar2000 (on a 3 years old Laptop) with a mix of recent Tamil feature film tracks (MP3 320kbps). These, to my ears, sound very clean, having a similar relaxing sound signature as in my older ATE (inaugural version). Bass (Mid-bass) seems well-controlled (still appears the strongest suit of these) without any bleeding onto mids, vocals are natural (may be a tad recessed?), treble presence seems a bit more than it is in my ATE (too smoothed out treble in them). Imaging and Instrument separation are decent. Soundstage width is average. I am listening to music at 30% system volume with these. At under 5 US$ (shipped), this is a decent buy.


 
 Pretty interesting your comparison with the ATR and ATE. would you say the step up is big enough to try the ATR? i really enjoy the ATE sound, although it is quite recessed in the mids, more so than I'd usually like... it's just so much fun to listen to and isn't that the name of the game


----------



## ioques

Hello all, I´m new here, my fav4 for now:
 1º - KZ HD9 (yes a surprise even to me 
 2º - KZ ATR (very similar, but some how I prefer the HD9, more detailed sound)
 3º - KZ ZS3 (maybe the better sound, but I'm getting a hard time to be used with memory wire and finding perfect isolation)
 4º - Rock Zircon (very close to KZs, and better tips, but i get more comfort with KZs in sound and physically)


----------



## harry501501

toddy0191 said:


> If you can find the LZ A2S cheap ever they have a similar signature but are more refined. They're BA and DD hybrid. If you like the pros, you would love them.
> 
> You may also like the vivo xe800 available for around £14. They're brighter than the pros with less bass but have beautiful mids.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Toddy, could you maybe go a wee bit further on how the T Pros and A2S compare sound wise? Current favourites are my ATEs, but I'm in search of something a bit more of a step up in quality with less recessed mids but retaining it's smooth bassy nature and 'big' sound. I think the T Pros are great and offer fantastic price to performance, they can just sound a bit dry/cold at times with bass that hits very well, but doesn't have the texture and musicality note wise that the ATE offers imo. Vidal has given me great advice and I'm just looking or some one else's viewpoint on the A2S.


----------



## toddy0191

harry501501 said:


> Hey Toddy, could you maybe go a wee bit further on how the T Pros and A2S compare sound wise? Current favourites are my ATEs, but I'm in search of something a bit more of a step up in quality with less recessed mids but retaining it's smooth bassy nature and 'big' sound. I think the T Pros are great and offer fantastic price to performance, they can just sound a bit dry/cold at times with bass that hits very well, but doesn't have the texture and musicality note wise that the ATE offers imo. Vidal has given me great advice and I'm just looking or some one else's viewpoint on the A2S.




Apologies all for off topic. 

The bass on the a2s is probably stronger than the pros but better controlled and faster with netter sub bass.They both have a lovely punchy sound coming from a bump in mid bass.

The pro excels in detailed mids but the a2s with its BA surpasses them in detail and resolution.

The treble is not as forward as some other iems but has all the detail youd expect of a BA just smoothed off a little in comparrison to the mids.

Soundstage is narrower on the a2s but not as much as some have stated. They really need a lot of burn in and they start to shine IMO and i burn in by listening.

Instrument separation is above average after burn in IMO.

They have very similar signatures ie. Smooth but detailed, but the a2s has that extra touch of finesse to it (timbre attack decay and resolution) and is my favourite iem at the moment.

I'm curious about the ATR but already have the ATE.

Does anybody have both and can explain how they're different?


----------



## harry501501

toddy0191 said:


> Apologies all for off topic.
> 
> The bass on the a2s is probably stronger than the pros but better controlled and faster with netter sub bass.They both have a lovely punchy sound coming from a bump in mid bass.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for that. I think it's okay to discuss it here cos as i mentioned I'm after an upgrade from the ATE and hoping the A2S shares it's signature, more so than the Tennmak Pro. I'm just about to buy the ATR for the same curiosity to how they compare.
  
 Go back a page and check the quote i used from Mebaali for a bit of a comparison.


----------



## B9Scrambler

toddy0191 said:


> Apologies all for off topic.
> 
> The bass on the a2s is probably stronger than the pros but better controlled and faster with netter sub bass.They both have a lovely punchy sound coming from a bump in mid bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A few of us have already commented on them on prior pages, but it'll be a pain in the butt to find those impressions.
  
 Myself and at least one other found the ATR to directly refine the ATE experience. They have pretty much the same signature but the ATR has improved bass and treble extension with a touch more treble energy. Personally, I don't see the point in the ATE being on sale with the ATR in the fold since it does everything the ATE does, but slightly better. Build quality is slightly improved too. I also found ergonomics to be mildly improved since the mold for the nozzle was enhanced and the lip is more defined allowing a greater variety of tips to be used.
  
 After using the ATR quite a bit over the last little while, I feel confident enough in saying it also has a slightly larger soundstage and more accurate imaging. It has two additional vents on the bottom of the housing where the two halves meet, which I'll attribute to these improved qualities.
  
 All these improvements are minor and quite subtle, but after using the ATE quite extensively since they were first launched the differences are noticeable and I feel enough to call the ATR an upgrade. _I also don't expect everyone to agree with these opinions/observations._


----------



## mebaali

harry501501 said:


> Pretty interesting your comparison with the ATR and ATE. would you say the step up is big enough to try the ATR? i really enjoy the ATE sound, although it is quite recessed in the mids, more so than I'd usually like... it's just so much fun to listen to and isn't that the name of the game




Hi Harry, 

After using ATR for the last two days, I honestly don't find much difference between these and my old ATE, in terms of sound. The first impression I had on ATR (OOTB) still holds true (for my ears). If you already have ATE and love its sound signature then chances are high that you might like ATR's slightly lean sound (but the differences are still very negligible for me, though) 

Regarding A2S, they are even more smooth sounding and in many ways reminds me of ATE (except with more forward sounding mids).

Cheers!


----------



## mints

rec zs3 cable w/o memory wire plz


----------



## Paulo099

euljiro said:


> I would definitely recommend you to try the ZST, the one with hybrid drivers. I never tried the ATR. The ATE feels like they have an L shape to my ears. Lots of bass and subbass but bloomy, mid recessed, and not so sparkly highs. The ZS3 have a slight V shape for me. Bloomy bass though, but definitely great subbass, great for EDM. I hear the mids more pronounced with the ZST, just brighter in general. The tightest bass among all the KZs but lacking in the subbass department. I like these the most with female vocals. ZST has the best resolution I feel. I cant compare with the ED9 since i never heard them.


 
 Subbass in my ED9 with gold filters is great so I don't mind the ZST not reaching the deepest bass. I'll probably go with the ZST based on your issues with the ZS3's fit. I'm afraid that the ZS3 might not fit my ear although my friend's ATE fits my ear without any problems.


----------



## haiku

b9scrambler said:


> A few of us have already commented on them on prior pages, but it'll be a pain in the butt to find those impressions.
> 
> Myself and at least one other found the ATR to directly refine the ATE experience. They have pretty much the same signature but the ATR has improved bass and treble extension with a touch more treble energy. Personally, I don't see the point in the ATE being on sale with the ATR in the fold since it does everything the ATE does, but slightly better. Build quality is slightly improved too. I also found ergonomics to be mildly improved since the mold for the nozzle was enhanced and the lip is more defined allowing a greater variety of tips to be used.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting to see that there seems to be almost no one, who has any experience with the ATE S. Wonder why that is.


----------



## Ruben123

So now I'm testing my last kzs I have, which should I keep.

Zs3 is more bassy than ATR and hds1, has the most rolled off treble but the comfort......... Atr sounds somewhat cleaner, less bass and a treble peak for extra detail though the hds1 takes the lead with detailed mids and the least bass. Though since I have some nice balanced and neutral earphones, I thought it might be better to have one warmer sounding one. Smartest is to get rid of the hds1 and zs3 I guess... Atr comfort is OK too, only thing I worry about is the isolation. Zs3 is king regarding that and I don't know how well the Atr does it.


----------



## fonkepala

haiku said:


> Interesting to see that there seems to be almost no one, who has any experience with the ATE S. Wonder why that is.




I'm on my train commute and listening to the ATE S. Just got them a couple days ago and they've probably had about a half day's worth of burn in. They sound pretty good to me. Fit and comfort is great. The part of the cable that hooks over the ears is awesome, they're pliable yet stays in place perfectly and I prefer it to those on the ZS3 which I find to be too stiff and somehow cumbersome. I don't really like the behind the ear weights used on the ATE and ATR. Soundwise, it's still pretty early so I'll refrain from commenting too much on it for now. Initial impression is like I said above, they sound pretty good. I'll have to compare it with my ZS3, ATR and ATE in more detail later.


----------



## haiku

fonkepala said:


> I'm on my train commute and listening to the ATE S. Just got them a couple days ago and they've probably had about a half day's worth of burn in. They sound pretty good to me. Fit and comfort is great. The part of the cable that hooks over the ears is awesome, they're pliable yet stays in place perfectly and I prefer it to those on the ZS3 which I find to be too stiff and somehow cumbersome. I don't really like the behind the ear weights used on the ATE and ATR. Soundwise, it's still pretty early so I'll refrain from commenting too much on it for now. Initial impression is like I said above, they sound pretty good. I'll have to compare it with my ZS3, ATR and ATE in more detail later.


 

 I´ve ordered the new KZ silicone tips. When I interpret the pictures on ali correctly, they are meant to be a sonic upgrade for the whole KZ range. I will know in about 2 weeks from now......


----------



## Euljiro

paulo099 said:


> Subbass in my ED9 with gold filters is great so I don't mind the ZST not reaching the deepest bass. I'll probably go with the ZST based on your issues with the ZS3's fit. I'm afraid that the ZS3 might not fit my ear although my friend's ATE fits my ear without any problems.


 
  


ruben123 said:


> whut something positive about the zst???? please tell us more!


 
  


fonkepala said:


> Interesting what you said about the ZST. Makes me want to try them out. This is one of the rare times something positive has been said about the ZST, I think.
> 
> Nope, I didn't say the ZS3 sounds similar to the ATR, I said now I prefer the way the ATR sounds rather than the ZS3. The ZS3 sound a bit too bloomy and less detailed for me. The ATR is worth a try for the asking price. You might like them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hum, i didn't know that there werent many good things to say about the ZST. No wonder I rarely see anyone mentioning them. Made me doubt the legitimacy of my ears. So I went back and tried them on again during my subway commute and at the office. So please let me elaborate more on the ZST.
  
 Let me start by making a basic assumption that if you enjoy KZ IEMs you tend to like a bit of extra bass, as opposed to someone who likes neutrality or nothing. Having said that, the ATE (which as I understand, puts KZ on the map), so it's only natural people are looking for an 'upgraded' version of the ATEs. In that sense, the ZS3 are clearly a better version of the ATE (IMO), more detailed, better highs.
  
 I dont think the ZST falls on the same line as those two. It's certainly not an 'upgraded' version of the ATEs IMO. The bass response is very different than the ZS3 and ATE, these two gives a good rumble. ZST on the other hand has much tighter bass, i think some would call the bass response 'faster.' I wouldn't call any of the KZs to be good all-rounders either. So for me, it's not ZST over the ZS3 or vice versa. But depends on what I want to listen, the song, the mood, etc. Say, Martin Garrix and Bebe Rexha's In the name of love (can complain about my taste in music later), I can really enjoy Bebe's vocal with the ZST, but if I change to the ZS3 I immediately feel the need to hit the club!
  
 Some negatives about the ZST would be that I hear sibilance sometime. More so when listening using my phone (note7 - finally a decent phone for me but then...). I have the FX-Audio X6 DAC/Amp combo at the office and I think it pairs well with the ZST. Some songs on my phone with the ZST is disgustingly bad i.e. AronChupa's I'm al Albatraoz (again, music choice is not the point here).
  
 So in the end, if you in this as a 'hobby', and dont mind trying out this and that, by all means, I totally recommend the ZST, especially at this price point. But if you aim to find a good all-round IEM, ZST is not something I would recommend, nor any currently on offer by KZ.
  
 Would love to hear what others feel about the ZST though. Cheers.


----------



## Mellowship

haiku said:


> I´ve ordered the new KZ silicone tips. When I interpret the pictures on ali correctly, they are meant to be a sonic upgrade for the whole KZ range. I will know in about 2 weeks from now......


 
  
 The ED12 come with these new tips, and it's the only thing I like on them. The tips are not a huge step forward from the prior KZ silicone tips, but they do provide a better fit and seem to stay put. As for differences in sound quality, I didn't compare with the older KZ tips, so I can´t give you an opinion.


----------



## pashhtk27

I ordered those new kz tips too along with the round foam ones. Hope they can be put to use.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

could someone post a link to the tips, so I have to correct ones thanks


----------



## ioques

mellowship said:


> The ED12 come with these new tips, and it's the only thing I like on them. The tips are not a huge step forward from the prior KZ silicone tips, but they do provide a better fit and seem to stay put. As for differences in sound quality, I didn't compare with the older KZ tips, so I can´t give you an opinion.


 
 there are more than one kind of "new tips"
this are the ones I get with HD9 (I think they also came with ED12 and ZST).
 and this they look a really upgrade, I ordered those.
  


> Originally Posted by *mints*
> 
> rec zs3 cable w/o memory wire plz


 
 +1


----------



## pashhtk27

ioques said:


> there are more than one kind of "new tips"
> this are the ones I get with HD9 (I think they also came with ED12 and ZST).
> and this they look a really upgrade, I ordered those.
> 
> +1




The new tips would be the ones with ed12, atr: the first link. Great to know they come with hd9, makes me want to buy one. 
The second ones are the old whirlwind tips. Good wide bore tips.


----------



## camikeva

Just chiming in with my ZST experience.  Several pages back, someone described them as "dark".  OOTB, I agreed with that assessment.  Bass was a bit much and treble was very weak.  After butn-in, it seemed that the bass settled in, but is still certainly above neutral.  Even after 50 hours of burn-in, the treble still seemed weak.  So, I just put them on and used them.  After an hour or so of actuallly listening, the treble started to come to life.  I know that sounds like "brain burn-in", and maybe it is, but the treble really improved.  It is still not a bright iem, but cymbals and other extended treble notes are there.  The other point to make is clarity.  I have found that a BA adds great clarity, and that is true with the ZST.  All in all, it's a good first effort in hybrid iem's for KZ.  I have a few others like the **** 4 in 1, and the Magaosi BLK-35. I don't think the ZST is at quite the same level, but the others are morfe expensive.


----------



## B9Scrambler

camikeva said:


> Just chiming in with my ZST experience.  Several pages back, someone described them as "dark".  OOTB, I agreed with that assessment.  Bass was a bit much and treble was very weak.  After butn-in, it seemed that the bass settled in, but is still certainly above neutral.  Even after 50 hours of burn-in, the treble still seemed weak.  So, I just put them on and used them.  After an hour or so of actuallly listening, the treble started to come to life.  I know that sounds like "brain burn-in", and maybe it is, but the treble really improved.  It is still not a bright iem, but cymbals and other extended treble notes are there.  The other point to make is clarity.  I have found that a BA adds great clarity, and that is true with the ZST.  All in all, it's a good first effort in hybrid iem's for KZ.  I have a few others like the **** 4 in 1, and the Magaosi BLK-35. I don't think the ZST is at quite the same level, but the others are morfe expensive.


 
  
 It sounds like the ZST takes the ZS series sound into the hybrid realm. Definitely looking forward to picking up a pair at some point with the hopes they best the crossover equipped ZS1.


----------



## mebaali

Received ZST, today. OOTB with stock tips and cable (using OnePlus One without any EQ at 50% volume), to my ears, these have tight bass, recessed mids, and somewhat grainy treble (listened to Fountains of Wayne, Shawn Mendes, BORNS, Oasis, Bayonne, and Red Hot Chili Peppers in M4A at 256kbps). Imaging, instrument separation, and detail retrieval are decent. Soundstage width is average. Newer KZ tips provide good fit and isolation for my ear canal shape.This is one of the few IEMs (KZ in particular) in my collection that is little difficult to drive with my usual volume setting in OPO (have to raise the volume of OnePlus One by at least 50%, for my tastes). Hope the sound improves further with more usage.





(BTW, bought these for 14.5 US$ from chinadiy shop in AliEx)


----------



## ioques

pashhtk27 said:


> The new tips would be the ones with ed12, atr: the first link. Great to know they come with hd9, makes me want to buy one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the info. I think those new ones are better but not a big difference.
 About HD9, if you like ATR, ATE you should go for it, then tell me what you think


----------



## mebaali

Listening to Oasis on ATR (straight outta laptop using Foobar2000 via WASAPI output at 30% Volume ). Love the imaging and instrument placement by these.


----------



## Ruben123

So the HD9 really is any good eh, and I was thinking that it was a fake KZ. Like to hear more about it, not that I need it (need??????) but who knows if it is better than........ oh well. Please tell us more. Im selling my ATR and ZS3 too even though Im going to have one of them, just not wanting to have the pressure of already having them around lol
 [Im probably getting the ATR besides the HDS1 only, a small good sounding IEM and a comfortable warm sounding one besides my neutral/bright IEMs. Now I only have to choose between ATR and ZS3. Any input is welcome]


----------



## Jacob McCauley

haiku said:


> All  foam tips I´ve tried so far, incl. the KZ, were horrible. They always push the iem out of my ear, no matter how deep I push them in.


 
 Which other foam tips have you tried? I used to use the Comply ones which always worked great but we're a little over priced. The last couple years I just get mine off of Aliexpress like for example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-1-pair-C-set-3mm-4-9mm-Caliber-Earphone-Sponge-Comply-T200-T400-T500-tips/32484955186.html
  
 Super cheap and as good if not actually better than the Comply ones with plenty of sizes to choose from depending on your ears and which earphones you have. For the price it's worth it to get a bunch and see what fits best. Worth a shot if you haven't tried them yet.


----------



## harry501501

haiku said:


> Interesting to see that there seems to be almost no one, who has any experience with the ATE S. Wonder why that is.


 
 Ahaha, i didn't even notice the big "S" at the end of my KZ ATE. I assumed they were the same pair! Soooo, everything I've said is actually about the ATE S


----------



## TheSweeney

Anyone in the UK looking for ATRs or ZS3s PM me. I have 2 pairs of each for swaps, all new.
 Looking to swap all or some of them for something that sounds similar to the Tennmak Pros (quite warm and smooth sounding). Possibly **** 4 in 1s?
 I'm willing to send first, if you are a trusted member, and could possibly add a LITTLE cash depending on whats offered.
  
 Lastly, sorry for posting here but I cant post in the trades section and this seems as good a place as any to swap some KZ's


----------



## harry501501

Got my KZ ZS1 today. they remind me A LOT like the Tennmak Pros, the pros maybe being slightly leaner and the ZS1 having slightly bigger soundstage and more forward vocals.
  
 In terms of the ZS1 vs ATE S.... ATE S wins. The ZS1 is clearly more refined, has clearer mids, much better crispier treble detail, bit bigger soundstage... BUT it doesn't have the smoothness and warmth of the ATE S. The bass on ATE S although slightly boomier and less controlled still sounds more fun and musical. it also does kickdrums like no other IEM 
  
 The ZS1 just like the Tennmak Pros may be very detailed, but they are quite clinical and too 'clean' sounding (for me)... which lots of people will prefer. the ATE S though is like the 'little engine that could' lol.
  
 What i will say of the ZS1... vocals sound AWESOME on it, helped by being pushed forward. male and female vocals are near enough perfect to my ears.


----------



## TheSweeney

harry501501 said:


> Got my KZ ZS1 today. they remind me A LOT like the Tennmak Pros, the pros maybe being slightly leaner and the ZS1 having slightly bigger soundstage and more forward vocals.
> 
> In terms of the ZS1 vs ATE S.... ATE S wins. The ZS1 is clearly more refined, has clearer mids, much better crispier treble detail, bit bigger soundstage... BUT it doesn't have the smoothness and warmth of the ATE S. The bass on ATE S although slightly boomier and less controlled still sounds more fun and musical. it also does kickdrums like no other IEM
> 
> ...


 

 This is music to my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm looking for something that sounds similar to the tennmak pro's so thanks for this ^^^^ I really need to try the ZS1 and the ATE S after reading that.
  
 Anyone looking to swap some ZS1's or ATE-S's for some ZS3's or ATR's?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> So the HD9 really is any good eh, and I was thinking that it was a fake KZ. Like to hear more about it, not that I need it (need??????) but who knows if it is better than........ oh well. Please tell us more. Im selling my ATR and ZS3 too even though Im going to have one of them, just not wanting to have the pressure of already having them around lol
> [Im probably getting the ATR besides the HDS1 only, a small good sounding IEM and a comfortable warm sounding one besides my neutral/bright IEMs. Now I only have to choose between ATR and ZS3. Any input is welcome]


 
  
 HD9 is a little different from most KZs and different than the ATE/ATR it's design is inspired by. Currently borrowing a pair from another Head-fi'er and will be posting more later when I've spent some quality time with them.


----------



## harry501501

thesweeney said:


> This is music to my ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You'll probably like the ZS1 more than the ATE S if you like the T Pros. The more i listen to the ZS1s the more i prefer them to the TPs. They're a tad smoother with less bright treble, a bit more natural sounding. Better bass. Live music is great. Got Queen on full blast... sweeeeeet.
  
 Remember that the ZS1 are far cheaper than the Pros too.


----------



## harry501501

thesweeney said:


> This is music to my ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Tips make a big difference I've noticed already with ZS1. They are quite difficult to fit so I'm using some small/medium foams which make the sound bit smoother than with silicon tips (more bite, treble). With silicons they are very similar to Tennmak pros, with foams on def smoother and may lose out a tad on detail due to this


----------



## Jacob McCauley

fonkepala said:


> Original Comply foam tips work well for me. They have knock off versions of Comply foam tips on Ali, I haven't tried those yet. Have you?


 
  
 The knock-offs on Ali are fantastic! I've been using them for almost 2 years now after I got tired of spending all the money on Comply tips that break within a couple months. The knock-offs even seem to last a bit longer than the Comply ones oddly enough. For the price you can't go wrong and they have various sizes to fit most earphones.


----------



## Jacob McCauley

b9scrambler said:


> As a Canadian I fully expect to receive stuff from either AE or Gearbest after around 40 days. Anything earlier than that is great, but not the norm.


 
 GB has vastly improved their shipping over the last few months. The Priority Line to Canada for me is a great option (although not available on everything but usually on all earphones) and usually arrives in about 2 weeks. Then there is the E-Post express option through the Registered Air Mail option which is around the same time (or perhaps a tad slower) as the Priority Line but is often a buck or two cheaper. I almost always use either of those shipping options now unless I am in no big hurry to get it. It's made GB even that much better since most other similar sites and Ali of course often take at least a month if not more.


----------



## fonkepala

jacob mccauley said:


> GB has vastly improved their shipping over the last few months. The Priority Line to Canada for me is a great option (although not available on everything but usually on all earphones) and usually arrives in about 2 weeks. Then there is the E-Post express option through the Registered Air Mail option which is around the same time (or perhaps a tad slower) as the Priority Line but is often a buck or two cheaper. I almost always use either of those shipping options now unless I am in no big hurry to get it. It's made GB even that much better since most other similar sites and Ali of course often take at least a month if not more.




Same here. Nothing but positive experiences so far with Gearbest shipping. I use the Priority Line or the SEA Express (this is only available for South East Asian countries I think) option, with insurance added on for a buck plus. Very cheap and gets to where I am within a week normally.


----------



## Jacob McCauley

fonkepala said:


> Same here. Nothing but positive experiences so far with Gearbest shipping. I use the Priority Line or the SEA Express (this is only available for South East Asian countries I think) option, with insurance added on for a buck plus. Very cheap and gets to where I am within a week normally.


 
 Glad to hear it's a positive experience no matter what country you're in. They really are a cut above the competitor sites with regards to shipping and even their prices are often cheaper. For some reason even a lot of the KZ line can be found at a great price and the flash sales are great too. Although they seem to be a little slow in getting new models. I had to order the new ZST model from Banggood (it is on sale at least) but they don't offer any sort of speedier shipping in between standard and express like GB does.


----------



## TheSweeney

harry501501 said:


> You'll probably like the ZS1 more than the ATE S if you like the T Pros. The more i listen to the ZS1s the more i prefer them to the TPs. They're a tad smoother with less bright treble, a bit more natural sounding. Better bass. Live music is great. Got Queen on full blast... sweeeeeet.
> 
> Remember that the ZS1 are far cheaper than the Pros too.


 
  
  


harry501501 said:


> Tips make a big difference I've noticed already with ZS1. They are quite difficult to fit so I'm using some small/medium foams which make the sound bit smoother than with silicon tips (more bite, treble). With silicons they are very similar to Tennmak pros, with foams on def smoother and may lose out a tad on detail due to this


 

 Good to know, thanks for the info. I'll definitely have to try the zs1 but I'll have to try the ate-s too, sounds like people either love or hate the extra bass in the ate-s and from what you've said I'll probably love'em.
 I cant justify buying more iems until I get shut of these ATR/ZS3's though  Cant go buying more when I have 4 new pair sitting right here lol.
  
 Cheers for the tips on the tips too, much appreciated.


----------



## fuzzyash

So what tips have worked for people with the kz zs3? With the stock tips, they just slide out


----------



## B9Scrambler

fuzzyash said:


> So what tips have worked for people with the kz zs3? With the stock tips, they just slide out




I use either RHA tips or Ultimate Ears tips. KZ's new 'star' tips aren't bad with them either.


----------



## hakuzen

> fuzzyash said:
> 
> 
> > So what tips have worked for people with the kz zs3? With the stock tips, they just slide out
> ...


 
 i also tried KZ's new 'star' but also old KZ's grey/brown. switched between M and L sizes, and discovered that my ears are nearer to L size (13mm diameter) than to M.
 no slide out, got desired seal with L size from both KZ's, but the texture, thickness and stiffness (remind me spiral dots) of the new 'star' tips provided the best seal. their medium-to-wide bore is a little bit wider than the old gray/brown's. the extra length of their inner tube helps to get deeper insertion. didn't notice any filtering of frequencies. tried them with KZ ATE (very long nozzle, spacers are needed with short tips) and others, thanks to that extra length.
 i liked them a lot, and they are not expensive, so ordered a ton.. together with a new set of spiral dots, ML size (which always work).
 try them.


----------



## haiku

The ATE S continue to amaze me anew every day. Why? Are there iems with better details? Definitely. Do they deliver the ultimate bass? Don´t know, I´m not a basshead, but it´s the right amount and quality for me. What about the mids? Especially vocals are beautiful with these.
 2 things stand out for me. One is the way they present the highs. Yes, they are rolled off pretty much, so they are never peaky or sibilant. From my experience, this eliminates the big problem most treble heavy iems and earbuds have nowadays.
 The second thing is, they don´t compress the sound when it comes to dynamics. Most earbuds and iems I´ve heard (lately the SE215, FA Heaven VI, InEar SD2, KZ ZS3) tend to compress the sound pretty early, which creates a really nasty sound. Can´t stand it. Now, with the ATE S I can listen to Goldie´s "Timeless" in full blast, with the subbass pumping, and still I hear a big open soundstage and highs. 
 So, when I listen with the ATE S it´s like I´m just hanging loose, riding the waves of sound. Wonderful......


----------



## jgpz

Just a quick question about the ZST, has anyone else had an issue with the one of the earphones sounding distorted/crackling? Just wanted to ask cause I returned the first set i got for another because the right one had this issue and then the replacement i got also had the exact same issue on the same side.


----------



## Ruben123

On eBay I saw the ATRs for only $4,30. Id say get some.


----------



## mebaali

After 2 days of use, my ZST still sounds the same as i felt OOTB (i.e., tight bass, sucked out mids, grainy treble). OTOH, ATR is doing a pretty decent job on all fronts (cleaner sounding of the two).


----------



## Ruben123

mebaali said:


> After 2 days of use, my ZST still sounds the same as i felt OOTB (i.e., tight bass, sucked out mids, grainy treble). OTOH, ATR is doing a pretty decent job on all fronts (cleaner sounding of the two).


 

 ATR is one of the most allround earphones KZ ever made, I think it works with most genres. If only it were transparent like the ATE... damn I like that design.


----------



## squallkiercosa

mebaali said:


> After 2 days of use, my ZST still sounds the same as i felt OOTB (i.e., tight bass, sucked out mids, grainy treble). OTOH, ATR is doing a pretty decent job on all fronts (cleaner sounding of the two).


 
 Funny thing, for me it's the other way around: It took some time for the ZST to really show what they were capable to accomplish. Voices are still laid back but the treble has come forward to show some presence, maybe the bass took the back seat at some point leaving the shy treble to stage. 
 The ZS3 still sounds flat for me. Nice FR though. I love the earpieces' shape. Edit: The cable guide is too stiff, planning to remove the metal bar inside eventually
 Maybe I should try the almighty ATR or ATE... or run away from here
  
 Too bad I only have two ears and little time to enjoy music.


----------



## haiku

squallkiercosa said:


> Funny thing, for me it's the other way around: It took some time for the ZST to really show what they were capable to accomplish. Voices are still laid back but the treble has come forward to show some presence, maybe the bass took the back seat at some point leaving the shy treble to stage.
> The ZS3 still sounds flat for me. Nice FR though. I love the earpieces' shape.
> Maybe I should try the almighty ATR or ATE... or run away from here
> 
> Too bad I only have two ears and little time to enjoy music.


 
  

 Better run. Once you get the ATE (S) or ATR, you´re hooked.


----------



## Aradea

Hmm which one to get first? ATE (S) or ATR for my next KZ??
I own the ZS3 right now and curious if the other line up are better


----------



## mebaali

ruben123 said:


> ATR is one of the most allround earphones KZ ever made, I think it works with most genres. If only it were transparent like the ATE... damn I like that design.


 
  
 Yep. Indeed, these are allrounders. Mighty impressed by the imaging of these, in particular.


squallkiercosa said:


> Funny thing, for me it's the other way around: It took some time for the ZST to really show what they were capable to accomplish. Voices are still laid back but the treble has come forward to show some presence, maybe the bass took the back seat at some point leaving the shy treble to stage.
> The ZS3 still sounds flat for me. Nice FR though. I love the earpieces' shape.
> Maybe I should try the almighty ATR or ATE... or run away from here
> 
> Too bad I only have two ears and little time to enjoy music.


 
 Hmmm. I can see the potential in these, especially with the instrument placements. Just want a bit more in mids and somewhat clearer treble, in these.
  
 ATR, is a solid buy for under 5 US$. Not much can go wrong with these, IMHO.


----------



## harry501501

aradea said:


> Hmm which one to get first? ATE (S) or ATR for my next KZ??
> I own the ZS3 right now and curious if the other line up are better


 
  
 I have both, the ATE S is a fun, very smooth sound. Bass is big and a bit boomy, but it's that low down warmth that I love. detail is decent enough, mids slightly pulled back in the mix.
  
 ATR, all round better performer. Great detail, similar bass to ATE S but much more accurate and better resolution. Mids and treble nice and clear. I can see why it's so liked here... it certianly gave me the wow factor on first listen. Only had a wee listen with it as I'm at work and sneaking away to listen to it lol.


----------



## harry501501

mebaali said:


> Yep. Indeed, these are allrounders. Mighty impressed by the imaging of these, in particular.
> Hmmm. I can see the potential in these, especially with the instrument placements. Just want a bit more in mids and somewhat clearer treble, in these.
> 
> ATR, is a solid buy for under 5 US$. Not much can go wrong with these, IMHO.


 
 That's what i said in the sub 100$ Asian thread... a fantastic all rounder


----------



## harry501501

thesweeney said:


> Good to know, thanks for the info. I'll definitely have to try the zs1 but I'll have to try the ate-s too, sounds like people either love or hate the extra bass in the ate-s and from what you've said I'll probably love'em.
> I cant justify buying more iems until I get shut of these ATR/ZS3's though  Cant go buying more when I have 4 new pair sitting right here lol.
> 
> Cheers for the tips on the tips too, much appreciated.


 
 Now that I've listened to the ATR I can say the ATE S is similar but a lot warmer and smoother, bass perhaps reaches a bit lower but again unless it gets power can be boomy. i mentioned already but i'm still taken aback by how much juice the ATE S need to really shine!!!


----------



## trumpethead

camikeva said:


> Just chiming in with my ZST experience.  Several pages back, someone described them as "dark".  OOTB, I agreed with that assessment.  Bass was a bit much and treble was very weak.  After butn-in, it seemed that the bass settled in, but is still certainly above neutral.  Even after 50 hours of burn-in, the treble still seemed weak.  So, I just put them on and used them.  After an hour or so of actuallly listening, the treble started to come to life.  I know that sounds like "brain burn-in", and maybe it is, but the treble really improved.  It is still not a bright iem, but cymbals and other extended treble notes are there.  The other point to make is clarity.  I have found that a BA adds great clarity, and that is true with the ZST.  All in all, it's a good first effort in hybrid iem's for KZ.  I have a few others like the **** 4 in 1, and the Magaosi BLK-35. I don't think the ZST is at quite the same level, but the others are morfe expensive.



My experience was very close to yours. Ootb I was a bit disappointed but they did open up with burn in and ss u say just listening. I am very pleased with the sound signature right now even thought the treble is a bit role off. Clarity, soundstage and detail are all improving and the bass is enough but not too much not bad KZ but I think they can do better with more experience tuning BA, and multiple drivers...interesting time to be in the game especially at these prices!


----------



## Aradea

harry501501 said:


> I have both, the ATE S is a fun, very smooth sound. Bass is big and a bit boomy, but it's that low down warmth that I love. detail is decent enough, mids slightly pulled back in the mix.
> 
> ATR, all round better performer. Great detail, similar bass to ATE S but much more accurate and better resolution. Mids and treble nice and clear. I can see why it's so liked here... it certianly gave me the wow factor on first listen. Only had a wee listen with it as I'm at work and sneaking away to listen to it lol.



Thanks a lot!

I'll try the ATR then. I dont like too much of a boomy bass


----------



## salatgung

I am newbie here, Pls, What is the best among them? I like bass and high. Thanks you very much


----------



## Paulo099

salatgung said:


> I am newbie here, Pls, What is the best among them? I like bass and high. Thanks you very much




If you like bass and high you should try the KZ ED9. They have emphasis in the bass and highs and have great soundstage and imaging for the price.


----------



## haiku

harry501501 said:


> Now that I've listened to the ATR I can say the ATE S is similar but a lot warmer and smoother, bass perhaps reaches a bit lower but again unless it gets power can be boomy. i mentioned already but i'm still taken aback by how much juice the ATE S need to really shine!!!


 

 Exactly. If you don´t have a powerful amp, don´t even think about pulling the trigger on the ATE S. But if you have the amp, be prepared for some full bodied and meaty sound.


----------



## Ruben123

haiku said:


> Exactly. If you don´t have a powerful amp, don´t even think about pulling the trigger on the ATE S. But if you have the amp, be prepared for some full bodied and meaty sound.


 

 Theyre 16 ohms really, come on. Only if you got a very weak EU capped phone you could possibly not get all the volume you want. Were talking about IEMs, no full size hard to drive headphones.


----------



## CoiL

haiku said:


> harry501501 said:
> 
> 
> > Now that I've listened to the ATR I can say the ATE S is similar but a lot warmer and smoother, bass perhaps reaches a bit lower but again unless it gets power can be boomy. i mentioned already but i'm still taken aback by how much juice the ATE S need to really shine!!!
> ...


 
 Imho, despite I don`t have S version, to get best bass performance out of ATE series - it needs port holes modification and right tips. 
  
 I should get my 8x ATR`s very soon, if not tomorrow. Then I can listen to all of them and also give some feedback on production quality and consistency.
  


ruben123 said:


> Theyre 16 ohms really, come on. Only if you got a very weak EU capped phone you could possibly not get all the volume you want. Were talking about IEMs, no full size hard to drive headphones.


 
 It`s not about loudness and volume, it`s about giving driver enough mA level to get rid of "loose" bass and unwanted membrane "delay" movement. 
 I have experienced amps (opamps) difference while maintaining same volume levels, just the difference in output power and "filtering" quality. ATE seems to be one of those IEM`s (not much though) despite being low impedance (btw, if I recall correctly, then I did measurements and ATE is actually ~18 Ohm).


----------



## haiku

Just ordered this KZ ATE Version! Can´t wait!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/Latest-Original-Brand-KZ-ATE-Super-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-with-Mic-3-5mm-Hifi/1464008_32375675193.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=63705


----------



## pashhtk27

haiku said:


> Just ordered this KZ ATE Version! Can´t wait!  :eek:
> 
> https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/Latest-Original-Brand-KZ-ATE-Super-Bass-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-with-Mic-3-5mm-Hifi/1464008_32375675193.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=63705




Looks like HD9 in black!! Wow!!


----------



## Ruben123

pashhtk27 said:


> Looks like HD9 in black!! Wow!!




Still want to hear more about them, there is not any mentioning of KZ (only qkz) and there are no sellers on eBay, only three on Ali, with at least one not having them (white) in stock.


----------



## RvTrav

I have the KZ HD9 in white and previously posted my impressions. (arrived in new KZ packaging like ATR)  I have also ordered the QKZ DM200 in black.  From appearances the DM200 and S12 from the Russian site seem to be the same as the KZ HD9.  I like the HD9 so hopefully the DM200 uses the same drivers.  When I receive the DM200 I will let you know if they sound the same.    The HD9 are on Aliexpress but in the same listing with ATE, ATEs and  ATR.  I'm not sure what relationship KZ has with QKZ but there seems to be some overlap in their product lines.


----------



## CoiL

rvtrav said:


> I'm not sure what relationship KZ has with QKZ but there seems to be some overlap in their product lines.


 
 QKZ is just rebranding by different seller. QKZ has many other products from "original" sellers also rebranded. That`s why HD9 is kind of question mark for some time since from the usual "official" sellers they do not provide it (at least not yet).


----------



## B9Scrambler

Some quick, somewhat shoddy pictures of the HD9 and it beside the ATE and ATR. Edit: HD9 is a legit KZ product.


----------



## danimoca

Thanks!
  
 How do the HD9 compare to the ATR in terms of sound?
  
 Received the ATR a few days ago and I'm quite impressed...


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> QKZ is just rebranding by different seller. QKZ has many other products from "original" sellers also rebranded. That`s why HD9 is kind of question mark for some time since from the usual "official" sellers they do not provide it (at least not yet).


 
  
 Pretty sure QKZ is a legit brand, even if it focuses mostly on re-branding existing products. Case and point (pun intended):
  

  
 I also bought their version of the ED10 which had QKZ branding on the jack. It was a super warm, overly smoothed over bass cannon so I gave them away. Nice cable though. Reminded me of the one on the ClarityOne EB110.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> Pretty sure QKZ is a legit brand, even if it focuses mostly on re-branding existing products. Case and point (pun intended):
> 
> 
> 
> I also bought their version of the ED10 which had QKZ branding on the jack. It was a super warm, overly smoothed over bass cannon so I gave them away. Nice cable though. Reminded me of the one on the ClarityOne EB110.


 

 Do you happen to also have the KZ ED10 one? If so are they different? The QKZ nephews sometimes are even cheaper. lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Do you happen to also have the KZ ED10 one? If so are they different? The QKZ nephews sometimes are even cheaper. lol


 
  
 I have the ED10 as well, yes. I was hoping the QKZ version would sound the same but have a better cable, but they were very different. ED10 sounds closest to the ED9 with gold nozzle while the QKZ version is all bass, all the time with recessed, mellow treble. It's not terrible, just not something I enjoyed.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> I have the ED10 as well, yes. I was hoping the QKZ version would sound the same but have a better cable, but they were very different. ED10 sounds closest to the ED9 with gold nozzle while the QKZ version is all bass, all the time with recessed, mellow treble. It's not terrible, just not something I enjoyed.


 

 Oh well... no possible deals then


----------



## CoiL

And thus, we can`t still be sure QKZ rebranded HD9 is real KZ with actual KZ drivers.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> And thus, we can`t still be sure QKZ rebranded HD9 is real KZ with actual KZ drivers.


 
 Well if you look at the photos KZ is quite clearly written on it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

danimoca said:


> Thanks!
> 
> How do the HD9 compare to the ATR in terms of sound?
> 
> Received the ATR a few days ago and I'm quite impressed...


 
  
 I'll be posting some impressions once I've finished spending more time with the HD9. I'll say now they it has a lot less midbass presence and a more forward midrange. It's an interesting balance, similar to the ED12 but on the HD9 it doesn't sound like dirt. Listening to them with Metallica's Black album right now. Two thumbs up.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> And thus, we can`t still be sure QKZ rebranded HD9 is real KZ with actual KZ drivers.


 
  
 I don't know where you get that idea. KZ packaging, KZ cable, KZ jack with KZ branding, same HiFi logo as found on the HDS1 and ED3c...pretty strong case towards them being a legit KZ produced product.


----------



## CoiL

From the mention of ED10 KZ version being different sounding than QKZ version, You mentioned earlier?


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> From the mention of ED10 KZ version being different sounding than QKZ version, You mentioned earlier?


 
  
 How does that in any way relate to the HD9? The QKZ DM7 has changes to the housing (Marshall-esq logo on the back), comes with a QKZ case, has QKZ branding on the jack, a different cable than those found on any of the 20+ unique KZ products I own, and sounds like none of them.


----------



## CoiL

Differences in other series can be also on QKZ HD9 vs.KZ HD9 ? Not trying to make a point or argue, just that there can be differences. Heck, if even KZ own ATE series has at least 4-5 different batches, then claiming QKZ vs. KZ branding doesn`t have differences is kind of "wrong" in my eyes... 
  
 Just thinking out loud.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Differences in other series can be also on QKZ HD9 vs.KZ HD9 ? Not trying to make a point or argue, just that there can be differences. Heck, if even KZ own ATE series has at least 4-5 different batches, then claiming QKZ vs. KZ branding doesn`t have differences is kind of "wrong" in my eyes...
> 
> Just thinking out loud.


 
  
 I think I misunderstood in that you were saying the HD9 was not an actual KZ. My apologies. The QKZ version, yeah, that's probably going to end up being different if QKZ versions of past KZs are any indication.


----------



## haiku

harry501501 said:


> I have both, the ATE S is a fun, very smooth sound. Bass is big and a bit boomy, but it's that low down warmth that I love. detail is decent enough, mids slightly pulled back in the mix.
> 
> ATR, all round better performer. Great detail, similar bass to ATE S but much more accurate and better resolution. Mids and treble nice and clear. I can see why it's so liked here... it certianly gave me the wow factor on first listen. Only had a wee listen with it as I'm at work and sneaking away to listen to it lol.


 

 harry
 My experiments with the ATE S have shown, that the bass of the ATE S is only boomy if the seal is bad, the tips aren´t right or you didn´t insert them deep enough. When the tips, seal and depth is right, the bass and subbass is nothing but powerful and hart hitting.


----------



## harry501501

haiku said:


> harry
> My experiments with the ATE S have shown, that the bass of the ATE S is only boomy if the seal is bad, the tips aren´t right or you didn´t insert them deep enough. When the tips, seal and depth is right, the bass and subbass is nothing but powerful and hart hitting.


 
  
 Hey Haiku, I've used various tips. Foams, silicon and even SpinFits which practically grantee a good seal for me every time. What i have noticed and mentioned was they need quite a bit of power behind them to get that slam. With my DAC the bass does tighten up, and with my Xduoo X3 DAP it takes 85/100 to get the best out of them. i still love them, still one of my favourite IEMS (currently that is lol). thanks


----------



## harry501501

Well, had a day with the ATR. These are REALLY good sounding 
  
 The detail is simply stunning at this price point. Good tight bass, decent enough depth. The mids and treble remind me a bit of the re-400 which is quite a compliment given the price difference. They have just a little bit of warmth that doesn't make them bright sounding. Soundstage depth is good, width good but i've heard better even at budget prices. vocals very articulate, as is separation.
  
 I'm so happy to have found a set that have good clarity up top without even getting close to sibilance. 
  
 An absolute steal at £10
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/wwwaproearcouk?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
  
 For me they ATR give me the critical listening but still musical. The ATE S give me the all out fun factor.
  
 ATE S > ATR > ZS1
  
 What next? ZST perhaps


----------



## bhazard

I think it's about time for KZ to evolve a bit. They tried with the hybrid, but I hope they learned from it and build a better one for the next model.
  
 Get me a great sounding hybrid at their current price structure, and I will be buying more KZ again.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bhazard Some more evolution would be nice. 

I would also like to see them refine their lineup; ZS series for the bass cannons, ED series for a fun, v-shaped sound, AT series for a more balanced or neutral sound. Something like that.


----------



## Chief Stringer

b9scrambler said:


> @bhazard Some more evolution would be nice.
> 
> I would also like to see them refine their lineup; ZS series for the bass cannons, ED series for a fun, v-shaped sound, AT series for a more balanced or neutral sound. Something like that.


 

 I wanna see more zs1s with the non mesh ends (unless there still is some somewhere?


----------



## B9Scrambler

chief stringer said:


> I wanna see more zs1s with the non mesh ends (unless there still is some somewhere?




I'll post some pictures of mine tomorrow when it's bright enough.


----------



## mints

ioques said:


> +1


 
  
 the search is futile


----------



## 1clearhead

ruben123 said:


> ATR is one of the most allround earphones KZ ever made, I think it works with most genres. If only it were transparent like the ATE... damn I like that design.


 
  
 +1 Love how they sound great right out of the package! I've been listening to the ATR's for 2 days now and I like them equally as much as my original first ATE's. Awesome buy!!!
  


bhazard said:


> I think it's about time for KZ to evolve a bit. They tried with the hybrid, but I hope they learned from it and build a better one for the next model.
> 
> Get me a great sounding hybrid at their current price structure, and I will be buying more KZ again.


 
 +1 True! .....If URBANFUN can do it? KZ can too!


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > ATR is one of the most allround earphones KZ ever made, I think it works with most genres. If only it were transparent like the ATE... damn I like that design.
> ...


 
 That` s very good to hear! 2nd gen *modified* ATE has been my all time favorite IEM, prefer them over many other I own, including some well known chinese hybrids.
 Will probably do mods to ATR too.


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> That` s very good to hear! 2nd gen *modified* ATE has been my all time favorite IEM, prefer them over many other I own, including some well known chinese hybrids.
> Will probably do mods to ATR too.


 
 Good to hear, 'CoiL'!


----------



## haiku

harry501501 said:


> Hey Haiku, I've used various tips. Foams, silicon and even SpinFits which practically grantee a good seal for me every time. What i have noticed and mentioned was they need quite a bit of power behind them to get that slam. With my DAC the bass does tighten up, and with my Xduoo X3 DAP it takes 85/100 to get the best out of them. i still love them, still one of my favourite IEMS (currently that is lol). thanks


 

 Alright. My post was also meant for some newbies, who think they just have to insert iems, then complain they sound *****, not knowing that there´s more to it to make them sound great.


----------



## Euljiro

b9scrambler said:


> @bhazard Some more evolution would be nice.
> 
> I would also like to see them refine their lineup; ZS series for the bass cannons, ED series for a fun, v-shaped sound, AT series for a more balanced or neutral sound. Something like that.


 
  
 Yes, I hope someone at KZ can read this. Good post!


----------



## CoiL

Wow... KZ kind of suprises me again... ATR is VERY good OOTB... for *4.65$ ? Seriously? *Best deal on SQ vs. price I`ve came across! 
  
 Now to the bad part... 
  
 KZ WHY oh WHY are You still using that ****y cable (rubbery, springy, sticky) ? 90* jack is also little bulk. 
  
 Back to ge good part...
  
 They should be awesome modding material and I suspect they will top over my FF-mod after modding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In stock they have quite similar overall sound to my 2nd gen ATE FF-mod but lack little in bass tightness/detail, decay/reverb detail, airiness and soundstage openness compared to FF-mod.
 But still, they have very good and well balanced and quite detailed sound with accurate imaging and presentation.
  
 Now... ATR to the "burning station" for a while and will listen them after some ~100h playtime. After that - tip-rolling sessions.
  
 Will be getting more of those for sure!


----------



## Ruben123

Zs3 cable is indeed better but what is wrong with the jack?


----------



## CoiL

it`s littlebit bulky imo and there could be better angle. But this is just my subjective opinion.


----------



## jipan

So. Just finished comparing ATR and ATE.
  
 Build quality: was it just me or ATR cable slightly thinner and less tangle prone than ATE? Granted, both cables are easy to tangle to death, but ATE cable is like noodle, while ATR is slightly more rigid. Gone is the pretty hard case from ATE, ATR came with standard plastic and carton box.
 Body quality more or less is same, but ATR had this small vent near the nozzle. I like ATE font better than ATR.
  
 Sound: I found that ATR treble is sharper and in abundance compared to rolled down treble of ATE. ATR is airier compared to ATE.
 ATE bass is bigger, more forward, boomy and slower compared to ATR bass. Vocal side, ATE is one step forward compared to ATR. Personally I prefer ATE vocal, more intimate. Separation between main vocal and background vocal is better in ATE than ATR.
  
 The differences in sound is not big, though. I think the first thing people notice switching from ATE to ATR were how everything take one step backward from listener. To me, ATE is intimate kind of presentation, while ATR is more spacious and less in your face kind of presentation.
  
 This is from my bad ears, using FiiO E10 (first gen).


----------



## exsion

Does anyone know where the official store to buy the ATE is?  I looked on Amazon first and saw two separate listings which confused me, and then looking at Aliexpress I saw a 'KZ Headset Official Flagship Store' and a 'KZ Official Store'.


----------



## boblauer

mebaali said:


> After 2 days of use, my ZST still sounds the same as i felt OOTB (i.e., tight bass, sucked out mids, grainy treble). OTOH, ATR is doing a pretty decent job on all fronts (cleaner sounding of the two).


 
 Same experience here but I've probably got  50 hours of burn in and another 12 on the upgrade silver cable. I'm about ready to give up on these and throw them in a drawer.


----------



## squallkiercosa

I removed the ZS3 cable sheath and the metal bar that made the ear guide stiff. To be honest, I was better the way it was intended: The 2pin connector stick out a bit far from the ear (at least in my case) and the cable doesn't stay the same way due to its suppleness. It's no big deal but definitely I would not recommend to anyone. I wonder if a 2pin connector from any CIEM might do better (the plug is shorter) Still, I could workout with them without problems.


----------



## MAntunes

exsion said:


> Does anyone know where the official store to buy the ATE is?  I looked on Amazon first and saw two separate listings which confused me, and then looking at Aliexpress I saw a 'KZ Headset Official Flagship Store' and a 'KZ Official Store'.


 

 I have the same question. Do they have any official website at least?


----------



## harry501501

Got ZS3 overnight Amazon Prime. It's got a huge sound to it, it's kinda a mixture of ATR and ATE S to my ears. it has the detail of ATR and the big bass and Soundstage of ATE S. I really like it... but getting a decent fit has been a challenge. I've never struggled this much getting a proper seal. I've used the same sized foams with ATE S, ATR and ZS1... all been fine but not here. With the ZS3 some silicons go to far in and strangle the sound. Foams have to be entered EXACTLY bang on in the same either ear or you get an unbalanced volume. SpinFits get pushed too far in. JVC Spiral dots don't work for me either. in the end the closest I can get to fitting and not damaging the sound are the ones that came on it... which normally would be too small for me.
  
 The problem is the length of the nozzle, it's too small for such a large housing.
  
 A real shame as the soundstage and energy of the sound is excellent.
  
 Any tips?


----------



## B9Scrambler

@harry501501  If it's a shallow fit earphone, I choose tips that play to that quality. Largest comfortable size that provides a light seal on the outside of the canal. For my pair I run with large RHA tips (not the greatest sound, but good comfort) or medium Ultimate Ears tips (best sound, slightly less comfortable).


----------



## hakuzen

harry501501 said:


> Got ZS3 overnight Amazon Prime. It's got a huge sound to it, it's kinda a mixture of ATR and ATE S to my ears. it has the detail of ATR and the big bass and Soundstage of ATE S. I really like it... but getting a decent fit has been a challenge. I've never struggled this much getting a proper seal. I've used the same sized foams with ATE S, ATR and ZS1... all been fine but not here. With the ZS3 some silicons go to far in and strangle the sound. Foams have to be entered EXACTLY bang on in the same either ear or you get an unbalanced volume. SpinFits get pushed too far in. JVC Spiral dots don't work for me either. in the end the closest I can get to fitting and not damaging the sound are the ones that came on it... which normally would be too small for me.
> 
> The problem is the length of the nozzle, it's too small for such a large housing.
> 
> ...


 

 after some tip rolling with zs3, found some suitable tips for my ears.
  
 thought wide bore ones would open mids and highs. spiral dots, and others spares i had around, are short for the long zs3 ATE nozzles, but discovered they sound ok this way (pushed down), like happens with ibasso it03. shallow insertion, spirals ML size (13mm) for my ears.
 anyway, if those short, wide bore, are too short, you can add an spacer (rubber/silicone o-ring), to make the tips protrude a bit more (you can adjust your ideal protruding by using one or various o-rings, different thickness)
  
 others i liked, were the new kz's 'star' (dark gray) tips, medium bore (L size, 13.5mm, in my case). i don't know if you have tried these. i get very good seal from them, and don't notice significant frequencies filtering. their inner tube is long, and matches well with the zs3 ATE's long nozzle. they are very affordable, so they worth a try.
  
 EDIT: OOPS, sorry the long nozzles are those from KZ ATE and ATR, i got confused with so many new iems..
 for zs3, i'm using the stock ones (those with red plastic inside), kz's new dark grays, and spiral dots, but found that a larger diameter was sealing better in this shallow insertion.


----------



## mebaali

boblauer said:


> Same experience here but I've probably got  50 hours of burn in and another 12 on the upgrade silver cable. I'm about ready to give up on these and throw them in a drawer.




ZST has been a big disappointment for me. With each passing day, my dislike for how they sound is only increasing. It's a shame, as I think these are one of the better looking earphones in my collection (sound is another story, though).

OTOH, should have my ZS3 in a week's time.


----------



## boblauer

I totally agree, I thought burn in might positively affect them nope, bought the upgraded SPC cable thinking that would nope. Basically I'm throwing them in my box with some apple ear buds and calling it a loss. Too bad as these were the first KZ's I've bought and probably the last. Too many other ones in the same price point worth buying.


----------



## jmwreck

I absolutely agree on the ZST reviews, there is a great amount of bass but the notes seems to be blurred and undefined, the treble/clarity seems to be loss in any genres I've tried.


----------



## Kelzo

Anyone tried using the replacement silver plated cable for ZS3? Does it change the sound of ZS3?


----------



## Aradea

kelzo said:


> Anyone tried using the replacement silver plated cable for ZS3? Does it change the sound of ZS3?



I've used the silver colored cable immediately after receiving the ZS3. I really hate how the stock cable sounded.

Stock cable: more in ur face presentation, high-mid-low are all over the place.

Silver cable: bit laid back, more focused high-mid-low. Much more enjoyable to listen to.. and perhaps a bit more clarity


----------



## fonkepala

Just got my pair of ED9 today. Enjoying how they sound with my test tracks. Was surprised by how heavy the earpieces were. Currently using the reference filter (with no black sponge filter material inside) with the stock supplied tips. After this they'll be burned in for a day or so. I imagine they'll MAYBE sound even better after that.


----------



## CoiL

harry501501 said:


> It's got a huge sound to it, it's kinda a mixture of ATR and ATE S to my ears. it has the detail of ATR and the big bass and Soundstage of ATE S.


 
 "Damn" You... gotta get another KZ to try out -.- Will be selling some of my hybrids soon anyway, so, cheapo ZS3 will slip into my basket.
  
  


mebaali said:


> boblauer said:
> 
> 
> > Same experience here but I've probably got  50 hours of burn in and another 12 on the upgrade silver cable. I'm about ready to give up on these and throw them in a drawer.
> ...


 
 You have ATR ? Can You please compare them to ZS3 when You receive them. If You don`t have ATR - get one, it`s very good single dynamic


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> You have ATR ? Can You please compare them to ZS3 when You receive them. If You don`t have ATR - get one, it`s very good single dynamic




Yep,got them a week back. Very satisfied with their sound (have posted my impressions on them few pages back). Will sure compare them to ZS3 (which are just few days away from reaching me, I guess  )


----------



## B9Scrambler

​   ​      ​  ​ *Cross-over equipped, brass-knuckled ZS1*​


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> ​   ​      ​  ​ *Cross-over equipped, brass-knuckled ZS1*​


 
 Your own mod or somebody did it? How`s the SQ? More information about cross-over? Nice. Wonder how tey sound.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> "Damn" You... gotta get another KZ to try out -.- Will be selling some of my hybrids soon anyway, so, cheapo ZS3 will slip into my basket.
> 
> 
> You have ATR ? Can You please compare them to ZS3 when You receive them. If You don`t have ATR - get one, it`s very good single dynamic




Zs3 is more relaxed sounding, a bit treble roll off, warm pleasing mids and somewhat enhanced bass. Atr has more treble and midbass.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Your own mod or somebody did it? How`s the SQ? More information about cross-over? Nice. Wonder how tey sound.


 
  
 This was the ZS1's original setup from when they were first released. Based on my experience with the current version of the ZS1 (i.e. no crossover, no brass rings in the nozzle), they now sound identical to the ZN1 Mini. This means they are technically a better earphone, but I prefer the smoother, more refined sound of the original.
  
 This is also one of the few earphones I own that really benefited from extended play; i.e. physical and/or mental burn in. After hundreds of hours of use, the comment on recessed treble and mids noted in my original review doesn't apply. Bass is still at the forefront and they are complete bass cannons, but it doesn't overshadow everything else to the same extent it did.
  
 Someone (maybe HiFiChris?) posted measurements near the start of the year that showed a big dip in coherence between drivers. Not an issue with the current model, however, that's one of my favorite things about the original. They sound like a 2.1 stereo system. To me it's a very unique presentation for an iem.


----------



## pashhtk27

b9scrambler said:


> This was the ZS1's original setup from when they were first released. Based on my experience with the current version of the ZS1 (i.e. no crossover, no brass rings in the nozzle), they now sound identical to the ZN1 Mini. This means they are technically a better earphone, but I prefer the smoother, more refined sound of the original.
> 
> This is also one of the few earphones I own that really benefited from extended play; i.e. physical and/or mental burn in. After hundreds of hours of use, the comment on recessed treble and mids noted in my original review doesn't apply. Bass is still at the forefront and they are complete bass cannons, but it doesn't overshadow everything else to the same extent it did.
> 
> Someone (maybe HiFiChris?) posted measurements near the start of the year that showed a big dip in coherence between drivers. Not an issue with the current model, however, that's one of my favorite things about the original. They sound like a 2.1 stereo system. To me it's a very unique presentation for an iem.




Under the assumption that Zs1 and Zs2 are the same: I always wondered why my zs2 didn't sound like your impressions of the zs1, and more like the zn1 mini with no recession in mids and treble, and bass not being too overpowering. That clears it, as there are no brass knuckles in mine.
And that also finally confirms the assumption, I guess.


----------



## To.M

My ZST have landed!  a brief listening session left some rather positive impressions on me and now they are sizzling cheerfully in the burner


----------



## fonkepala

to.m said:


> My ZST have landed!  a brief listening session left some rather positive impressions on me and now they are sizzling cheerfully in the burner




Great! Another rare positive post on the ZST. Looking forward to hear your impression after they have been 'cooked' nicely


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > "Damn" You... gotta get another KZ to try out -.- Will be selling some of my hybrids soon anyway, so, cheapo ZS3 will slip into my basket.
> ...


 
 Thanks! Waiting Mebaali impressions too as he hears same things in IEMs as I do usually, so I know more what to expect.


----------



## rockingthearies

ruben123 said:


> Zs3 is more relaxed sounding, a bit treble roll off, warm pleasing mids and somewhat enhanced bass. Atr has more treble and midbass.




exactly how I felt about the ZS3 not sure if its enhanced bass or recessed trebles but yeah really like the non fatiguing sound of it


----------



## salatgung

mantunes said:


> I have the same question. Do they have any official website at least?


 
 Here I know: http://www.kzearphone.com/English/html/6027852135.html
 I think they just be OEM


----------



## 1clearhead

Oh, yea! I am loving the ATR's! They are so easy to listen to! They have been my travelling buddy this week, and i've been enjoying them ever since! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't find anything wrong, but find more things right with them, especially their sound signature. It's ashame I didn't enjoy the translucent black ATE's as much and sold them awhile back. But, I still own my first "silver ATE's" and now my new friend, the ATR's for travel and gym.
 I personally think the ATR's are a MUST BUY!


----------



## rockingthearies

May I know the sound signature of the ATR? Are these ATR's real as well? http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html


----------



## 1clearhead

rockingthearies said:


> May I know the sound signature of the ATR? Are these ATR's real as well? http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html


 
  
 I don't shop at gearbest, but people in this forum say it's a good place to shop.
  
 My best quick impression on the ATR's.....It has a wide soundstage with natural sounding life-like midrange and great surprising details on top when used with aftermarket narrow-bore medium silicone tips. This is the latest I can say for the ATR's.
  
 These are really good. I can not find any fault on these! But, if it were priced any higher?....then the cables can be an issue for that matter -rubbery-like.


----------



## haiku

1clearhead said:


> Oh, yea! I am loving the ATR's! They are so easy to listen to! They have been my travelling buddy this week, and i've been enjoying them ever since!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

 Don´t own the ATE S yet? It´s a must buy, too.


----------



## mebaali

rockingthearies said:


> May I know the sound signature of the ATR? Are these ATR's real as well? http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html



 


To my ears and source gear, they are pretty balanced sounding with a tinge of warmth and that's a legit ATR (i got mine from the same source) in your link.


----------



## CoiL

jipan said:


> So. Just finished comparing ATR and ATE.
> 
> Sound: I found that ATR treble is sharper and in abundance compared to rolled down treble of ATE. ATR is airier compared to ATE.
> ATE bass is bigger, more forward, boomy and slower compared to ATR bass. Vocal side, ATE is one step forward compared to ATR. Personally I prefer ATE vocal, more intimate. Separation between main vocal and background vocal is better in ATE than ATR.
> ...


 
 Quote:


1clearhead said:


> Oh, yea! I am loving the ATR's! They are so easy to listen to! They have been my travelling buddy this week, and i've been enjoying them ever since!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ok guys... I tried some different configurations and tweaks, also ran through most of my 37 pairs of small size tips collection and this is the best and closest configuration to my 2nd gen ATE FF-mod I`ve got so far:
  
 1) Remove back covers (airiness and decays/reverb improves slightly)
 2) tape, glue or whatever shut nozzle port holes (improves bass tightness mainly and give overall more accurate "thump")
 3) Use KZ newest "starline" tips: http://bit.ly/2dHEK1O
 
  
 I think I can not take You further closer to FF-mod without some more serious modding. FF-mod sounds little airier and more open, larger soundstage and better frontal depth, little more transparency and with slightly less bass quantity(more distant).
 To get ATR closer to FF-mod, I think nozzle mod is mandatory. ATR nozzle inner size is 3mm while my FF-mod has 4mm inner size and "trompet" like nozzle edge. Nozzle material should also be brass or steel instead plastic.
 If I get more time, then will do those mods and give feedback how it turns up. 
  
 But for now - go and mod You ATR. If You dont like it, it`s reversable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Btw, I bought all my 8x ATR from gearbest for 4.65$. Will be getting more for sure. LOL - it`s insane value!
  
 Edit: Forgot to mention that I haven`t measured cable and driver impedances yet, due to having no multimeter atm.


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


>


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> Ok guys... I tried some different configurations and tweaks, also ran through most of my 37 pairs of small size tips collection and this is the best and closest configuration to my 2nd gen ATE FF-mod I`ve got so far:
> 
> 1) Remove back covers (airiness and decays/reverb improves slightly)
> 2) tape, glue or whatever shut nozzle port holes (improves bass tightness mainly and give overall more accurate "thump")
> ...


 
  


 Just tried (still using) KZ Star Tips (medium size) on my ATR. Isolation and fit are simply fantastic. Overall, sound seems even more coherent (was using Spiral Dot before) than before (or just my mind playing tricks)


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Ok guys... I tried some different configurations and tweaks, also ran through most of my 37 pairs of small size tips collection and this is the best and closest configuration to my 2nd gen ATE FF-mod I`ve got so far:
> 
> 1) Remove back covers (airiness and decays/reverb improves slightly)
> 2) tape, glue or whatever shut nozzle port holes (improves bass tightness mainly and give overall more accurate "thump")
> ...


 

 So with the ATR: remove the backplate (does that reduce isolation much?) and where are the nozzle holes? The ATR is on the warm side of natural so a bit colder sounding mod would be excellent.


----------



## CoiL

Imo isolation doesn`t change much. Nozzle port holes are tiny holes down the neck of the plastic nozzle - close them. My pair that I modded hasn`t had any driver flex or issues.
 Mod doesn`t make ATR colder (imho it doesn`t need to be colder - vocals and midrange are spot-on and natural). Mod just makes everything littlebit more open, accurate and clearer (specific changes mentioned in previous post).


----------



## mebaali

Received my ZS3 (bought from Gearbest for 8 US$) an hour back. OOTB (with KZ's Star shape medium sized tips), these are very impressive for my ears. This is how I wanted (and expected) my ZST to sound. 
  
 A quick A-Bing of ZS3 with ATR shows the latter ones are leaner across frequencies.There is more body to the overall sound signature in ZS3 with (mid)bass being the prominent one without bleeding into other frequencies. Vocals appear clear and natural. Treble is smooth but still detailed. Overall, a warm sounding phones with good Clarity.
  
 This is just an hour's impression I have had with ZS3 and could change with more listening time.
  
 (Sourcegear used: Fujitsu laptop, AIMP music player with WASAPI output, system volume at 25. Music listened to;  Mixed playlist consists of Armin van Buuren, Arno Cost, Alesso, Aerosmith, Ilaiyaraja, FM-84, Santhosh Narayanan in MP3 320 kbps or M4a 256 kbps)


----------



## Ruben123

Any more impressions on the HD9? Comparisons? Who ordered it too (I havent)?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Brought out the EDR2 and have been listening to them with KZ's new 'Starline' tips. Great match! They also fit the odd nozzle length perfectly and are more comfortable than any other tip I've tried to date. While they're not as flashy looking as the new models, they sound awesome and are still one of my top KZ's.
 ​  
    ​  ​


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> Received my ZS3 (bought from Gearbest for 8 US$) an hour back. OOTB (with KZ's Star shape medium sized tips), these are very impressive for my ears. This is how I wanted (and expected) my ZST to sound.
> 
> A quick A-Bing of ZS3 with ATR shows the latter ones are leaner across frequencies.There is more body to the overall sound signature in ZS3 with (mid)bass being the prominent one without bleeding into other frequencies. Vocals appear clear and natural. Treble is smooth but still detailed. Overall, a warm sounding phones with good Clarity.
> 
> ...


 
 Keep us updated about ZS3 vs. ATR impressions after some playtime. What do You yhink - should I get my hands on ZS3 or not? I don`t like "boosted" mid-bass, like for example A2S has.
 How`s the soundstage and imaging on ZS3? Larger and better than ATR?


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> Keep us updated about ZS3 vs. ATR impressions after some playtime. What do You yhink - should I get my hands on ZS3 or not? I don`t like "boosted" mid-bass, like for example A2S has.
> How`s the soundstage and imaging on ZS3? Larger and better than ATR?


 
 Just listening to A2S now, ZS3's mid-bass, (though, low in quantity) sounds a bit tighter than A2S (to my ears).
  
 Imaging seems decent (nothing spectacular), soundstage width is average(maybe a tad wider than ATR).
  
 Will sure update further with more usage


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Keep us updated about ZS3 vs. ATR impressions after some playtime. What do You yhink - should I get my hands on ZS3 or not? I don`t like "boosted" mid-bass, like for example A2S has.
> How`s the soundstage and imaging on ZS3? Larger and better than ATR?


 
  
 The ZS3 is a bit thicker sounding and puts a touch more focus on the low end vs. the ATR. It is boosted in the mid-bass, but not anywhere near to the extent of the A2S. Personally I think the ATR sounds more airy and spacious with better detailing, probably as a result of a thinner, tighter treble presentation. Imaging is excellent on both. Keep in mind the ZS3 is easier to drive to the same volumes, and sound from both is easily affected by tip choice and fitment.I'm running stock large tips on the ATR. Medium UE600 tips are being used on the ZS3 as the wide bore tames the mid-bass quite well.
  
 The ZS3 is definitely worth checking out. I'm sure you'd have some fun modding their housing. It's a bit more curvaceous than their other products. Could be a nice challenge?


----------



## Ruben123

I think, but that of course is my opinion , the ATR and ZS3 sound too much alike to own both. Yes there are differences but the sound signature is somewhat the same. Better spend the money on another earphone that sounds much different (or is a league above KZ).


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> I think, but that of course is my opinion , the ATR and ZS3 sound too much alike to own both. Yes there are differences but the sound signature is somewhat the same. Better spend the money on another earphone that sounds much different (or is a league above KZ).


 

 I agree with you and B9 Ruben, I prefer the ZS3 over the ATR but as I've said before I find the ZS3 to be the final product of the ZS/ZN series as I found the ATR to be the end result of many variations of the ATE lineup. For sure the ATR is the sexiest of them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Of course the ZS3 in mat is just beautiful to me as well


----------



## CoiL

@B9Scrambler , @Ruben123 & @Podster - call me crazy, but after my ATR has had ~50h playtime with "burn-in" tubes and after modding them + using with KZ "starline" tips - they are superior even over **** 4in1, LZ A2S, Magaosi BK50, HLSX 808 (modded).
  
 Been listening to _Riverside - Eye of the Soundscape, Porcupine Tree, Devin Townsend - Casualties of Cool_ for last few hours out of my modified Aune T1 desk setup and modified DX50 (high gain).
 Incredibly dynamical but clear, transparent, detailed sound with very good soundstage and accurate imaging. Great decays/reverbs and mids are just spot on "life-like" natural in vocals and mid-based instruments. KZ has done amazing job tuning this single dynamic driver. Just wish they could put more effort in housing design, materials and cable quality.
  
 This is BEST KZ IEM out yet imho and it`s highly recommended by me. Not saying those words often... they are simply just that good.


----------



## Podster

coil said:


>


 

 So are you going to post some pics of your modded pair??? You know I like my ATR's but like all my ATE's they just are not as comfortable as most of my other iem's


----------



## CoiL

Nothing much to see and photoshoot atm - they are without back covers and port holes closed with "starline" tips. 
 There are still some "weaknesses" compared to FF-mod but at same time they have their good sides.
 They will be modded further and will post pics after I`m done but it will take some time because this time I`m going to take ear-impressions and make whole shelling out of wood (I think no-one has done it to IEM yet) and it take some trial-and-error to get them "perfect".
 They probably will be my "last" and best handcrafted modification. 
  
 Remember - this is purely my subjective opinion with my gear and preferences. Others opinion may differ. 
 But they just sound so good that it`s almost impossible to find faults (there isn`t such IEM though and will never be). There just are few small things they could improve upon but that possible "improvement" will be heard after I`ve tried all my skills and tricks have been tested and "consumed".


----------



## Mayones

Could anyone link/pm me with those starline tips? Cant find any for ATR, only ED9/ED10


----------



## CoiL

coil said:


> 3) Use KZ newest "starline" tips: http://bit.ly/2dHEK1O


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Nothing much to see and photoshoot atm - they are without back covers and port holes closed with "starline" tips.
> There are still some "weaknesses" compared to FF-mod but at same time they have their good sides.
> They will be modded further and will post pics after I`m done but it will take some time because this time I`m going to take ear-impressions and make whole shelling out of wood (I think no-one has done it to IEM yet) and it take some trial-and-error to get them "perfect".
> They probably will be my "last" and best handcrafted modification.
> ...


 

 So that's it. Breaking the back off and tape/glue the ports closed with a wide bored tip and voila.


----------



## CoiL

Like I said - some things can be improved with further modding but this is the easiest modifications that do make them better and very good to my personal preferences out of my gear. Try it and if You don`t like it, then reverse it and share Your impressions to everybody.
  
 NB! Not just wide bore tips - use KZ "starline" tips. Otherwise - voila! - yes, that easy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Go listen to the music I mentioned earlier and hear improvements... or not.
  
 Edit: Btw, forgot to mention one thing earlier about port holes shut thingy - they can be turned quieter about 2-3 clicks from the normal listening level You usually are using. They should have tighter bass/percussion and benefit from lower vol level (they are little louder after port closing due to pressure increase inside ear-canal).


----------



## Ruben123

I ordered new ATRs since I gave away mine lol. Might give a try to the new KZ tips, never bought tips as I already have dozens. 


Edit
I assume coil changing tips makes the least difference? Try before buy lol


----------



## bhazard

Where is the ATR the cheapest now?
  
 I agree with Coil on the starline tips. They almost match up with how my JVC Spiral Dots sound. Everyone should have a pair at the whole $1 or so they cost.


----------



## Ruben123

They can be had at $4,29 on eBay


----------



## CoiL

bhazard said:


> Where is the ATR the cheapest now?
> 
> I agree with Coil on the starline tips. They almost match up with how my JVC Spiral Dots sound. Everyone should have a pair at the whole $1 or so they cost.


 
 ATR @ gearbest for 4.39 € : http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html?wid=21
 I got all my 8x ATR from GB and they are flawless. KZ "Starline" tips link I posted before.
  


ruben123 said:


> Edit
> I assume coil changing tips makes the least difference? Try before buy lol


 
 What do You mean by that? 
 Yes, changing tips can actually make huge difference how IEM sounds depending on IEM. Some doesn`t show almost any change, some are like "night and day".


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> ATR @ gearbest for 4.39 € : http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html?wid=21
> I got all my 8x ATR from GB and they are flawless. KZ "Starline" tips link I posted before.
> 
> What do You mean by that?
> Y*es, changing tips can actually make huge difference how IEM sounds depending on IEM. Some doesn`t show almost any change, some are like "night and day".*


 
 That is what I meant, sorry, was not being clear. I have not heard any much difference between tips on my earphones, well I did, but I could eventually believe it's a placebo effect for me. After all I ordered the KZ tips so we will see


----------



## CoiL

Well, lets not forget about other pieces in chain also - You need also revealing source gear and great mastering high quality file format. If one has "muddy" sounding source gear, differences between tips are less noticeable. For example I can`t hear changes with tips so well with typical heavily compressed pop-dance-music in mp3 etc. compressed files, it is noticeable, but not so much as with 16/44 FLAC for example. I don`t want to start debate here on mp3 vs. flac etc. ,just that there are more into play than just tips and IEM. Great mastering of music is basis of all and next comes source gear.
  
 For what it`s worth, I have done A/B switch comparing with 2 same IEM from same source gear playing loop but using different tips - differences are noticeable quite easily and definitely not placebo with certain IEM`s.


----------



## pashhtk27

I've always found myself with very significant changes by rolling tips; not significant enough to make a bad earphone good, but good enough to make a good earphone great. I do not have a good enough source gear, just my cheap smartphone(which to me sounds great) and yet I still find changes.
 I think it's more about the kind of music we test our earphones with. I do not test with classical music, rock, or edm as I find them quite forgiving. I usually test with my select Jpop/Anime songs that I know very well: the ones that have a lot of spatial effects,vocals and bass/treble notes. And then I always look for tips that provide me the best instrument separation and least fuzziness, and take away sibilance if present. Wide bore tips seem to do this well enough for me.


----------



## rikk009

mebaali said:


> Received my ZS3 (bought from Gearbest for 8 US$) an hour back. OOTB (with KZ's Star shape medium sized tips), these are very impressive for my ears. This is how I wanted (and expected) my ZST to sound.
> 
> A quick A-Bing of ZS3 with ATR shows the latter ones are leaner across frequencies.There is more body to the overall sound signature in ZS3 with (mid)bass being the prominent one without bleeding into other frequencies. Vocals appear clear and natural. Treble is smooth but still detailed. Overall, a warm sounding phones with good Clarity.
> 
> ...


 
 Did GB show the tracking details? Mine shipped on 14th Sep hasn't been delivered or even show the tracking.


----------



## mebaali

rikk009 said:


> Did GB show the tracking details? Mine shipped on 14th Sep hasn't been delivered or even show the tracking.




Not sure which shipper you have used with your order. I have used Gati as the shipping option with tracking number (for an additional charge of 1.19 US$) for the last 2 orders(ATR and ZS3) of mine from GB. Both the times, my products were delivered within 6 days of ordering.


----------



## mebaali

Loving what I am listening from ZS3s, been playing loads of Tamil feature film tracks from 80s by Ilaiyaraja. I feel Instrument separation and detail retrieval are quite impressive, on these. With a just over 10 hours of listening, I prefer the overall musicality of ZS3s over (even) ATR (which are themselves fabulour phones on their own).


----------



## bhazard

I strongly suggest the new tips for tip rolling, not just for KZ iems. I have to try them on many more sets, but they have given better than stock results on a lot of sets I've tried them on, similar to JVC Spiral Dots for 1/18th the price.


----------



## Podster

mebaali said:


> Loving what I am listening from ZS3s, been playing loads of Tamil feature film tracks from 80s by Ilaiyaraja. I feel Instrument separation and detail retrieval are quite impressive, on these. With a just over 10 hours of listening, I prefer the overall musicality of ZS3s over (even) ATR (which are themselves fabulour phones on their own).


 

 Agreed however I've not heard Coil's mods on my ATR's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It is simply incredible what one can get for less than $80, talk about crazy return on investment!


----------



## sfogar

I received a brand new pair of ATE-S yesterday.
  
 I already own the ZS3...
  
 Well I have to burn them a little bit but I can say that I prefer the ATE-S to the ZS3, the ZS3 are very dark and the bass is slow, I think.
  
 Which kind of tips are better with ATE-S ?
  
 The default ones resembling little cones are horrible !


----------



## Euljiro

I'm completely sold on the ATRs. Just placed an order on Aliexpress, about 2 weeks to get from China to Korea.
  
 I also ordered a few pairs of Comply T400/T500 tips, hope they can eventually solve the fitting issues I have with the ZS3.
  
 Can anyone recommend, or even better share the link to any good double and/or triple cone tips? preferably on Aliexpress, I'm not in the US by the way.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## kokoy

* first time to post here in headfi..

what KZ would you guys recommend?

wide soundstage and good imaging..
non-fatiguing / not harsh or sibilant highs..
clear vocals..
fast punchy bass (but not basshead level, lol)..

tia.


----------



## zabunny94

@kokoy i guess kz ed3m and kz ate would fit your needs about non fatiguing sound


----------



## lord ace

hi what is the best kz Earphones and In-Ear Monitors my options are ..kz zs3, zst and kz atr...i want more bass..ill be using it in my phone(xiaomi mi5s plus)..


----------



## rockingthearies

lord ace said:


> hi what is the best kz Earphones and In-Ear Monitors my options are ..kz zs3, zst and kz atr...i want more bass..ill be using it in my phone(xiaomi mi5s plus)..




I only own the ZS3 it have pretty good bass. Instrument separation is quite good. Like i could literally hear the entire drumset. On the ZS3 it feels the instruments are more forward and the vocals are at the back at least imo. They are also non fatiguing not to mention they fit my ears very comfortably. Treble could be a little too recessed for some people. Comes off as a pretty "dark" sounding iem


----------



## rikk009

mebaali said:


> Not sure which shipper you have used with your order. I have used Gati as the shipping option with tracking number (for an additional charge of 1.19 US$) for the last 2 orders(ATR and ZS3) of mine from GB. Both the times, my products were delivered within 6 days of ordering.


 
 I didn't check the shipping options. Should have done that. Thanks.


----------



## salatgung

I just bought a new kz zst. It just have 1 button? How to next, back songs.


----------



## B9Scrambler

salatgung said:


> I just bought a new kz zst. It just have 1 button? How to next, back songs.


 
  
 Two quick presses should skip to the next track. Three quick presses should go back a track.


----------



## squallkiercosa

The ibasso IT03 next to the ZS3
.


----------



## To.M

Well, after some 30h of brain burn-in I still like my ZST  they have good depth,separation and resolution, bass can go deep (with a thump), 12.50usd I paid for them look like a good purchase


----------



## salatgung

to.m said:


> Well, after some 30h of brain burn-in I still like my ZST  they have good depth,separation and resolution, bass can go deep (with a thump), 12.50usd I paid for them look like a good purchase



Sound is great but the build quality is bad. Right?


----------



## salatgung

mebaali said:


> Received ZST, today. OOTB with stock tips and cable (using OnePlus One without any EQ at 50% volume), to my ears, these have tight bass, recessed mids, and somewhat grainy treble (listened to Fountains of Wayne, Shawn Mendes, BORNS, Oasis, Bayonne, and Red Hot Chili Peppers in M4A at 256kbps). Imaging, instrument separation, and detail retrieval are decent. Soundstage width is average. Newer KZ tips provide good fit and isolation for my ear canal shape.This is one of the few IEMs (KZ in particular) in my collection that is little difficult to drive with my usual volume setting in OPO (have to raise the volume of OnePlus One by at least 50%, for my tastes). Hope the sound improves further with more usage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hope your is not fake. Zst have mic and it have 3 cycle in jack.


----------



## Ruben123

Today was another day...... of which I have posted many more times before. I took my HDS1s with me. Lol most of you know what I would be going to post so Im not going to do that. They deserve a nice comparison against a (modded?  @CoiL) ATR. Neutral-warm sound, nice instrument placement, excellent fit. Both very cheap of course. They might both beat the ZS3.


----------



## B9Scrambler

salatgung said:


> I hope your is not fake. Zst have mic and it have 3 cycle in jack.


 
  
 You can order them without a mic.


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> Loving what I am listening from ZS3s, been playing loads of Tamil feature film tracks from 80s by Ilaiyaraja. I feel Instrument separation and detail retrieval are quite impressive, on these. With a just over 10 hours of listening, I prefer the overall musicality of ZS3s over (even) ATR (which are themselves fabulour phones on their own).


 
 Ok, You saying it, I gotta get myself ZS3 also. Where is the most safest place to buy them (without balance and other quality issues)?
  
 Have You tried Your ATR in modified configuration vs. ZS3?


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Ok, You saying it, I gotta get myself ZS3 also. Where is the most safest place to buy them (without balance and other quality issues)?
> 
> Have You tried Your ATR in modified configuration vs. ZS3?


 

 The ZS3s are warm sounding - enhanced bass with rich mids and rolled off treble. ATR has more energy I think, though I keep insist they sound more similar than not. I found having both doesnt make sense.


----------



## CoiL

Ruben, what`s Your source gear and music style and file quality?


----------



## Ruben123

Many actually. Sansa Clips, Samsung i9000 with Voodoo, HP Elitebook, Compaq notebook, 80s HiFi amplifier...... the differences are consistent. I dont say they sound the same but they have the same sound signature with the ATR having more energy: more midbass and treble, the ZS3 having more subbass and the same mids and more rolled off treble. They sound both quite warm to me, and the differences are there but not that big. I see no reason to have both. I listen to all sorts of music, such as classical (Handel and Bach, but also Mozart and Beethoven), 60s music such as Bob Dylan (but also his newer 2000's records), Bryan Adams...


----------



## To.M

salatgung said:


> Sound is great but the build quality is bad. Right?




Well, I wouldn't say so, to me it is rather ok, so far nothing has fallen off or got broken  

My version is without a mic, and it is absolutely no fake


----------



## mebaali

salatgung said:


> I hope your is not fake. Zst have mic and it have 3 cycle in jack.


 
  
 As others have mentioned, you can get them with or without mic. Mine is a genuine ZST.


coil said:


> Ok, You saying it, I gotta get myself ZS3 also. Where is the most safest place to buy them (without balance and other quality issues)?
> 
> Have You tried Your ATR in modified configuration vs. ZS3?


 
 My ATR is only partially modded (i didn't open the backplate, have just used KZ's starline medium size tips). This itself gives me, excellent fit and isolation (resulting in more coherent sound). Comparatively, ATR is much more balanced (leaner sounding as well) than ZS3 (warmer of the two with more midbass presence) but the overall thickness (or fullness) in the presentation makes the latter one favt for my audio tastes. To me, despite having slightly meatier bass (than ATR), ZS3 still maintains a very good clarity, instrument separation, and detail retrieval. IMHO, both ATR and ZS3 has got distinct enough sound (presentation) to warrant a purchase at their current selling prices (ZS3 is available for under 9 US$ at GearBest).


----------



## harry501501

Hey guys, well I got my ATE (copper) today and have been doing some early comparisons with the ATE S. Early impressions... I'm not hearing much of a difference. It's going to take a lot of songs and swapping before I can confirm. Maybe I'm wanting to hear differences but the ATE seems a bit lighter in it its bass slam and I'm possibly hearing a bit of a difference on lead vocals. The ATE S may have a very slight increase in upper mids.
  
 At this moment my favourites soundwise are 
  
 ATE S > ATE > ATR > ZS3 > ZS1
  
 build wise
  
 ATR/ATE > ATE S > ZS1 > ZS3
  
 The ZS3 would be a serious contender for first place if it wasn't for it's build as i reckon with the perfect seal it could be an excellent sounding IEM. I am using the exact same sized foam tips with all of them, a cheap set i got from Amazon which although won't last long are just perfect in size for my ears.
  
 My only question is all of them came in the same little black rectangle cardboard box with purple writing, except for the ATE which came in a US police badge shaped plastic box?
  
 EDIT : Spelling


----------



## toshvan

Reporting after couple of months using KZ ATE: I'm very impressed with them, very nice overall sound. I use them almost daily, mainly for commuting to and from work. Noise isolation is good, and they manage to stay in the ears (unlike some other iems I've used).
  
 What other KZ IEMs would you guys suggest? This is one gigantic thread, and from what I managed to read KZ ZS3 and KZ ATR seem quite popular. Also, are ZS3 quality problems resolved (as from few months ago)?
  
  
 edit: I should also say that I used several cheap foam tips (Comply clones from Ali) and they are quite nice with KZ ATE, more stable than the KZ default tips.


----------



## Ruben123

I like the ed9 and particularly the hds1 too.


----------



## zabunny94

@toshvan i personally think that ed9 should be considered as a must-have for budget iem enthusiast, for some reason

1. the cable is not your typical transparent springy kz cable, it's using different brown colored kind. less springy and bit more thicker than regular one

2. you get 2 sound signature

3. the housing is very durable, you can step on it and not a single dent found

also for a people like me who hates total isolation while commuting finds that the big vent on the back kinda neat


----------



## fonkepala

zabunny94 said:


> @toshvan i personally think that ed9 should be considered as a must-have for budget iem enthusiast, for some reason
> 
> 1. the cable is not your typical transparent springy kz cable, it's using different brown colored kind. less springy and bit more thicker than regular one
> 
> ...




I second this. The ED9 sounds really good to my ears, quite close to my preferred sound signature I guess. The cable is indeed thicker, better and not as tangly as the one on the ATE, ATE-S and ATR. The earpieces feel solid and are quite heavy. Only downside for me is that they require quite a deep insertion, so it might be a discomfort at first. I'll buy another one as backup soon, that's how much I like em.


----------



## harry501501

toshvan said:


> Reporting after couple of months using KZ ATE: I'm very impressed with them, very nice overall sound. I use them almost daily, mainly for commuting to and from work. Noise isolation is good, and they manage to stay in the ears (unlike some other iems I've used).
> 
> What other KZ IEMs would you guys suggest? This is one gigantic thread, and from what I managed to read KZ ZS3 and KZ ATR seem quite popular. Also, are ZS3 quality problems resolved (as from few months ago)?
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you an manage a good fit on the ZS3 I'd say it could be the best I've heard in the line-up, but for me the ATE or ATE S is still the most fun. ATR gives you more re-400 like detail though if that's your bag... with better bass that is


----------



## toshvan

Tnx for your input, everybody.
  
 @harry501501 are people having fitting trouble with ZS3? How about those quality management problems from few months ago, when ZS3 debuted... Is that changed now?
  
 @zabunny94 @fonkepala I'll be sure to try ED9 sometime later, for home use. I mostly use IEMs when commuting (and prefer as much as possible sound isolation), at home I prefer over-the-ears phones. But yes, there are indeed situations when non-isolating IEM comes handy.


----------



## RvTrav

ZS3 is really good with heavy metal and symphonic metal.  These genres need to be listened to at a higher volume and the ATR has problems keeping up with the heavy bass sections at this louder volume.  The ZS3 performs well at the higher volumes with the drums hitting harder and the cymbals are crisper.  I've been using the KZ star type tips on the ZS3 and the seal is good without the vacuum effect.  Although I enjoy this genre at a loud level, I do limit how long I listen to it.  If I listen too long I find I have ringing in my ears for a couple of days.  ZS3 with heavy metal is like chocolate for me.  I love them both but have to limit them.


----------



## Kefkiroth

Is there some sort of comprehensive guide to this brand? I started looking into KZ after I broke my Xiaomi Hybrids, and it's hard to find any comprehensive comparisons between all of KZ's IEMs, since it seems like they release a new one every few months. I'm not entirely sure where to start with this brand.


----------



## pashhtk27

It's like everyone has got a favorite KZ here, so there is a KZ for everyone. What may feel like bad earphone to you is actually a good one for others. For me I love the HDS3 that nobody else loves here, and do not find HDS1 any good. I find this really incredible! 

@Kefkiroth I think you should ask B9 for help. He's the guide here.


----------



## zabunny94

@Kefkiroth

i suggest you start from ed9 because it has 2 sound signature, and you can decide which iem you should get next after you decide which ed9 filter you prefer

also, kz has 4 line consist of ZSx, ATx, EDx and HDSx
ZSx series, from what i see is kinda the flagship of KZ, except for zs3 all of them using dual driver (zs1,zs2 and zst)

EDx series kinda feels like the experimental line, most of the product are hit and miss

also notice that "QKZ" isn't actually "KZ"


----------



## Kefkiroth

zabunny94
Thanks for the info! I'll check out the ED9. Seems hard to go wrong since these IEMs are really cheap.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> Many actually. Sansa Clips, Samsung i9000 with Voodoo, HP Elitebook, Compaq notebook, 80s HiFi amplifier...


 
 Ok, I see. Not saying Your sources are bad and You are probably hearing right things... but... they aren`t quite adequate sources for me. Sansa Clip is quite good and don`t know about Your 80`s HiFi amp (output impedance etc.) but I consider my desk setup and modified DX50 quite a big leap over those (not trying to brag, just what I have heard with my own ears).


mebaali said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, You saying it, I gotta get myself ZS3 also. Where is the most safest place to buy them (without balance and other quality issues)?
> ...


 
 Well, You should really try them with open back + closed port hole too... along with starline tips
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






harry501501 said:


> Hey guys, well I got my ATE (copper) today and have been doing some early comparisons with the ATE S. Early impressions... I'm not hearing much of a difference. It's going to take a lot of songs and swapping before I can confirm. Maybe I'm wanting to hear differences but the ATE seems a bit lighter in it its bass slam and I'm possibly hearing a bit of a difference on lead vocals. The ATE S may have a very slight increase in upper mids.
> 
> At this moment my favourites soundwise are
> 
> ATE S > ATE > ATR > ZS3 > ZS1


 
 Ok, quess I got to get ATE S version too along with ZS3  to make things clearer (for myself mainly). 


rvtrav said:


> ZS3 is really good with heavy metal and symphonic metal.  These genres need to be listened to at a higher volume and the ATR has problems keeping up with the heavy bass sections at this louder volume.


 
 Recommend also to try them modded with starline tips. It improves bass tightness and response while actually lowering volume levels.
 This is the one thing I really like about modded ATR - I can easily listen them even 10-15 steps lower as my usual listening vol level @ my modded DX50 (high gain) while not sacrificing on bass/percussion tightness and thump. For example with **** 4in1 I have to keep it around 194-198 depending on record but with modded ATR I can enjoy same music with same overall detail level @ 180-186. Without mods and typical tips I would have to listen ATR @ 190-194.


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> Well, You should really try them with open back + closed port hole too... along with starline tips


 
 I am bit skeptic of my modding skills hence afraid of opening the shells
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At the moment, with the shells as it is using KZ Starline tips, ATR sounds very detailed (absolutely loving it) with tighter bass (plus enhanced treble) for me (clearest sounding of all KZs in my line up). Can't imagine what improvement I will have with further modding (physical ones like you have done) of these


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Ok, I see. Not saying Your sources are bad and You are probably hearing right things... but... they aren`t quite adequate sources for me. Sansa Clip is quite good and don`t know about Your 80`s HiFi amp (output impedance etc.) but I consider my desk setup and modified DX50 quite a big leap over those (not trying to brag, just what I have heard with my own ears).
> Well, You should really try them with open back + closed port hole too... along with starline tips
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Apart from impedance mismatches and high noise floors I have never heard a difference between all of my sources, so I dont have a problem with you doing it instead.  Do you have the HDS1 though?


----------



## roy_jones

ruben123 said:


> Apart from impedance mismatches and high noise floors I have never heard a difference between all of my sources, so I dont have a problem with you doing it instead.  Do you have the HDS1 though?


 
  
 And you shouldn't notice any difference.  It's unfortunate that so few members ever wander over to the sound science section of the forum.


----------



## newbielive

harry501501 said:


> Hey guys, well I got my ATE (copper) today and have been doing some early comparisons with the ATE S. Early impressions... I'm not hearing much of a difference. It's going to take a lot of songs and swapping before I can confirm. Maybe I'm wanting to hear differences but the ATE seems a bit lighter in it its bass slam and I'm possibly hearing a bit of a difference on lead vocals. The ATE S may have a very slight increase in upper mids.
> 
> At this moment my favourites soundwise are
> 
> ...


 
 I'm starting to see how subjective the art of ear phone reviewing is. Although I only have the KZ-ATE ZS1 and ZN1, I would definitely rate the ZS1 over the KZ-ATE. I would say they all have very similar sound signature with the ZS1 and ZN1 having better instrument separation but with the same fantastic midrange as the ATEs for vocals and the lively sound. 
  
 On a side note it was kind of interesting comparing my ZN1 to my co workers BOSE Quiet Comfort($449 CAD). The BOSE was better in that had even better instrument separation and the treble was sometimes so high it was sibilant and annoying to listen to. Yes the BOSE were still better but not $420 better than the KZ-ZN1. Another co worker who just standing on the sidelines was at first like "I am going to buy those BOSE" then after she listen to the ZN1 she was like ummmm maybe I'm going to buy those instead lol


----------



## Inasilentway

I love what the starline tips for most of the KZs I own, but I interchange them. I'm wondering if you can buy them in bulk as a separate item and where. Thanks.


----------



## FiJAAS

I have a question. Thinking about getting the KZ ATE. Will the mic and buttons work with the iPhone?


----------



## Pink Freud

coil said:


> Ok, I see. Not saying Your sources are bad and You are probably hearing right things... but... they aren`t quite adequate sources for me. Sansa Clip is quite good and don`t know about Your 80`s HiFi amp (output impedance etc.) but I consider my desk setup and modified DX50 quite a big leap over those (not trying to brag, just what I have heard with my own ears).
> Well, You should really try them with open back + closed port hole too... along with starline tips
> Ok, quess I got to get ATE S version too along with ZS3  to make things clearer (for myself mainly).
> Recommend also to try them modded with starline tips. It improves bass tightness and response while actually lowering volume levels.
> This is the one thing I really like about modded ATR - I can easily listen them even 10-15 steps lower as my usual listening vol level @ my modded DX50 (high gain) while not sacrificing on bass/percussion tightness and thump. For example with **** 4in1 I have to keep it around 194-198 depending on record but with modded ATR I can enjoy same music with same overall detail level @ 180-186. Without mods and typical tips I would have to listen ATR @ 190-194.



Hey there! Just bought a zs3, where can I buy starline tips? 
Thanks, 
Andrea


----------



## To.M

Starline tips, I got them with ZST and ordered more 

http://s.aliexpress.com/eMV3Ibya


----------



## doggiemom

pink freud said:


> Hey there! Just bought a zs3, where can I buy starline tips?
> Thanks,
> Andrea


 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-KZ-Eartips-3-Pairs-6pcs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Tips-Earbuds-Headphone-Silicone-Eartips/32724830222.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.30.fXt3wY&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_1&btsid=df9b1399-678b-4830-b08b-0e547c572702


----------



## FiJAAS

How is the mic on the KZ ate? Is it iphone compatible?


----------



## fonkepala

fijaas said:


> How is the mic on the KZ ate? Is it iphone compatible?


 
  
 The other party said that my voice during our call came in loud and clear. Not sure about iphone compatibility though, as I don't have an iphone. Works fine on my Android.


----------



## salatgung

Do we have a way to check kz headphone? Id, series or sth?


----------



## FiJAAS

fonkepala said:


> The other party said that my voice during our call came in loud and clear. Not sure about iphone compatibility though, as I don't have an iphone. Works fine on my Android.




Thanks!


----------



## theoutsider

i am wondering... which of the KZ has the largest soundstage? like the most airy of all the KZ?


----------



## Lurk650

What's the consensus on the HDSE?


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


>


 
  
 I agree with the ATR's 'CoiL'! They are one of the best purchases I've ever experienced on a dynamic driver! .....sorry, don't know where your posting went above. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


ruben123 said:


> Many actually. Sansa Clips, Samsung i9000 with Voodoo, HP Elitebook, Compaq notebook, 80s HiFi amplifier...... the differences are consistent. I dont say they sound the same but they have the same sound signature with the ATR having more energy: more midbass *and treble*, the ZS3 having more subbass and the same mids and more rolled off treble. They sound both quite warm to me, and the differences are there but not that big. I see no reason to have both. I listen to all sorts of music, such as classical (Handel and Bach, but also Mozart and Beethoven), 60s music such as Bob Dylan (but also his newer 2000's records), Bryan Adams...


 
  
 With *A*ll *T*hat *R*ave! .....I''m glad I purchased the *ATR*!


----------



## MizBuzzer

podster said:


> Agreed however I've not heard Coil's mods on my ATR's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What eartips are those?


----------



## Ruben123

lurk650 said:


> What's the consensus on the HDSE?


 

 I thought I read they are quite bad, unfortunately.


----------



## Lurk650

ruben123 said:


> I thought I read they are quite bad, unfortunately.




Good to know. Ordered the Moxpad X90 off Amazon for my gf. Will be here Wednesday. She had the Brainwavz Blu 200 but she lost them the other night at work, they were beginning to get static Anyway. Her Phaiser BHS-730 came yesterday, big bass and lots of static, the highs are terrible. Will see how the Moxpad do, supposed to sound really good since dual dynamic. Battery life about 2.5 to 3 hrs which is what the BW got


----------



## Lawstorant

My ZS3s just broke after only two weeks (left headphone is dead)... Maybe I'll be able to get new from Gearbest... Back to EDR2 and 2 year old HD SE...


----------



## BudgetListener

1clearhead said:


> I agree with the ATR's 'CoiL'! They are one of the best purchases I've ever experienced on a dynamic driver! .....sorry, don't know where your posting went above. :blink:




Then why do you rank them 13rd on your dynamics list?


----------



## CoiL

Maybe he is being objective and excluding his own preferences (music genre and sound signature) out of the picture? Or maybe he hasn`t updated his list? Who knows...
 Different strokes for different folks anyway.


----------



## Vidal

ruben123 said:


> I thought I read they are quite bad, unfortunately.


 
  
@Lurk650
  
 Re:HDSE
  
 They're not bad, in fact for bluetooth they're pretty decent. Lots of sub bass with the right tips, treble is a little rolled off but overall the sound is quite fun. Mind you I have been listening to the 4in1s recently. They won't replace my 1More iBeFree as my go to wireless pair but they're not as far behind as I'd have expected given their price.
  
 Only downside and I get this with all bluetooth earphones of similar style is they're a bit bulky and the earpieces tend to move about a bit in my ears.


----------



## loomisjohnson

vidal said:


> @Lurk650
> 
> Re:HDSE
> 
> ...


 

 love you both, but wireless is for bedwetters.....real men need wires!!!!


----------



## Vidal

loomisjohnson said:


> love you both, but wireless is for bedwetters.....real men need wires!!!!


 
  
 I use mine in the car or when out walking the dogs, sometimes I even listen to sport with them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The advantage being that when you jump up in the air when someone scores you don't risk garroting yourself.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> love you both, but wireless is for bedwetters.....real men need wires!!!!


 
  
 You, sir, need to give the ADVANCED Model 3 a go. Might change your opinion.


----------



## zabunny94

lurk650 said:


> Good to know. Ordered the Moxpad X90 off Amazon for my gf. Will be here Wednesday. She had the Brainwavz Blu 200 but she lost them the other night at work, they were beginning to get static Anyway. Her Phaiser BHS-730 came yesterday, big bass and lots of static, the highs are terrible. Will see how the Moxpad do, supposed to sound really good since dual dynamic. Battery life about 2.5 to 3 hrs which is what the BW got




I have the moxpad x90, actually it's my second unit because the first one had some signal loss issue so i just replaced it, beware though that some guy in local audio group also reported something like that

I can say that i quite disappointed with x90, and should have bought phrodi sp6 or something from remax

The sound is your typical sport earphone signature, emphasized mid bass andthe treble feels too smoothened

Battery life was horrendous, probably only 2 and half hour at max(but i never really working out more than 2 hours anyway), but when the battery almost run out, the notification voice kinda annoying

On the positive side, the isolation is very good

I Wish KZ make a Bluetooth cable with 2 pin connector


----------



## Lurk650

zabunny94 said:


> I have the moxpad x90, actually it's my second unit because the first one had some signal loss issue so i just replaced it, beware though that some guy in local audio group also reported something like that
> 
> I can say that i quite disappointed with x90, and should have bought phrodi sp6 or something from remax
> 
> ...




Luckily my gf doesnt care much about sound, as long as it's clear and seals well of course. Penon has a MMCX BT cable for $25, 8-10hr battery life. Will probably throw my Fender DXA1 or Tennmak Pro on there and she can use em.


----------



## toddy0191

vidal said:


> I use mine in the car or when out walking the dogs, sometimes I even listen to sport with them :eek:
> 
> The advantage being that when you jump up in the air when someone scores you don't risk garroting yourself.




Guessing you're not a Sunderland fan then!


----------



## crabdog

New, colofrul ZST:
  

  
 EDIT: Makes me wonder if TFZ is a subsidiary of KZ aimed at the mid-fi market.


----------



## thebigredpolos

I have the ZST, and I have the Series 1S "MyLove" edition.  Now I'm trying to somehow justify getting the colorful ZST.


----------



## danimoca

After 2 weeks with the KZ ATR's, I just can't believe how good these sound for the price.
  
 Punchy sound but still somewhat balanced.
  
 Are there other KZ's which have a similar sound?


----------



## To.M

thebigredpolos said:


> I have the ZST, and I have the Series 1S "MyLove" edition.  Now I'm trying to somehow justify getting the colorful ZST.




Buy now, find a justification later, you will have some time before they come from China


----------



## Freetrademan

danimoca said:


> After 2 weeks with the KZ ATR's, I just can't believe how good these sound for the price.
> 
> Punchy sound but still somewhat balanced.
> 
> Are there other KZ's which have a similar sound?


 
 I have over 40 earphones in my collection and I'm always looking for something better. I've had the KZ ATR for just a few days, and I have to say, this is the best sounding earphone I've heard under $80. And I paid $4.88. Insane quality for the price. 
  
 The ATR has a full, balanced sound, with shimmery highs, realistic mids, and without the "thickness" that so many other IEMs have. The bass is fine- not lacking, not over-boosted. They have an almost open feel. 
  
 I unwittingly got the no mic version. Now that I see a version with a mic for $0.32 more, I just ordered one for everyone on my Xmas list.


----------



## Vidal

toddy0191 said:


> Guessing you're not a Sunderland fan then!


 
  





, no Liverpool. I'm not local to the North East.


----------



## trumpethead

danimoca said:


> After 2 weeks with the KZ ATR's, I just can't believe how good these sound for the price.
> 
> Punchy sound but still somewhat balanced.
> 
> Are there other KZ's which have a similar sound?



I have had my KTR s about a week and I to am very impressed. KZ got the tuning right on this one imo..Very Clear, detailed and all frequencies are in balance...immersive sound with a little boost from my Fiio E6..crisp highs with not a hint of sibilance. I am going to order two more from Gearbest as a back up..how do they do this at 5 dollars? Great Job KZ!!


----------



## Thomas De Brito

trumpethead said:


> I have had my KTR s about a week and I to am very impressed. KZ got the tuning right on this one imo..Very Clear, detailed and all frequencies are in balance...immersive sound with a little boost from my Fiio E6..crisp highs with not a hint of sibilance. I am going to order two more from Gearbest as a back up..how do they do this at 5 dollars? Great Job KZ!!


are you taking about the atr. There's a ktr model?


----------



## Ruben123

@CoiL How does one remove the backplates? I seem to break my nails trying to do it.


----------



## CoiL

freetrademan said:


> danimoca said:
> 
> 
> > After 2 weeks with the KZ ATR's, I just can't believe how good these sound for the price.
> ...


 
 Quote:


trumpethead said:


> I have had my KTR s about a week and I to am very impressed. KZ got the tuning right on this one imo..Very Clear, detailed and all frequencies are in balance...immersive sound with a little boost from my Fiio E6..crisp highs with not a hint of sibilance. I am going to order two more from Gearbest as a back up..how do they do this at 5 dollars? Great Job KZ!!


 
 Finally ATR getting some fame that they deserve! Yes, they are INSANE value for money! ;P
  


ruben123 said:


> @CoiL How does one remove the backplates? I seem to break my nails trying to do it.


 
 Check thread picture gallery and look for pics on 1st gen ATE silver open housings. Someone did a series of pics how to open them. 
 I`m at work and can`t help with pics atm. You should find those pics from gallery pretty easily.


----------



## Comebackboy

ATR vs ZS3, which one is better? Both are somewhat successors to the ATE right?


----------



## B9Scrambler

comebackboy said:


> ATR vs ZS3, which one is better? Both are somewhat successors to the ATE right?


 
  
 They're similar but different enough in their own rights to be worth owning. As good as the ZS3 is, I think the ATR is the better sounding of the two due to offering a more balanced signature. Then again it also lines up slightly better with my personal preferences so there may be some inherent bias there.
  
 Depends on who you ask, but the ATR is an updated and ever so slightly improved ATE while the ZS3 refines the ZS1/2 sound. 
  
 ATR is more balanced with additional treble energy and detail that the ZS3 lacks. The ZS3 has a thicker, darker presentation which puts more emphasis on the low end with a more robust bass presence.


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Finally ATR getting some fame that they deserve! Yes, they are INSANE value for money! ;P
> 
> Check thread picture gallery and look for pics on 1st gen ATE silver open housings. Someone did a series of pics how to open them.
> I`m at work and can`t help with pics atm. You should find those pics from gallery pretty easily.


 

 Succeeded!


----------



## zainprox

Does anyone have any issues with the fitting of the cable into the ZST iem's themselves? I have just got mine and the pins on the cables fit very loosely into the sockets of the iems and come off too easily. Am I eligible for an exchange?


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Finally ATR getting some fame that they deserve! Yes, they are INSANE value for money! ;P
> ...


 
 Good. Now get some electrical tape and make a turn around nozzle lower part so it closes the port hole, just to test out open back + closed hole configuration


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> Good. Now get some electrical tape and make a turn around nozzle lower part so it closes the port hole, just to test out open back + closed hole configuration


 

 To me they _seem_ clearer with the holes still open. What change do you notice?


----------



## LaBoomz

Just pulled the trigger on the ZS3. Im coming from a pair of meeaudio m6 pro and seeing the ridiculous price on these iem I just had to try them out. Anyone here owns both the ZS3 and m6 pro? Would love to hear some comparison reviews between the both of them!


----------



## tripside

Been a while since i bought  a KZ iem. Bought KZ ATE and ED10 last year and came out unimpressed. I found the ATE pretty uncomfortable to wear and ED10 was a tad harsh to my ears. Also didn't like the cables on them.
  
 Would love to know which KZ models are worth checking out right now ? Looking for a warm to neutral sounding earphones
  
 I also came across the HDS2, which looks basically a clone of the Yamaha EPH100 (which i absolutely adore). I will get them just because of that, but what do they sound like?


----------



## Ruben123

tripside said:


> Been a while since i bought  a KZ iem. Bought KZ ATE and ED10 last year and came out unimpressed. I found the ATE pretty uncomfortable to wear and ED10 was a tad harsh to my ears. Also didn't like the cables on them.
> 
> Would love to know which KZ models are worth checking out right now ? Looking for a warm to neutral sounding earphones
> 
> I also came across the HDS2, which looks basically a clone of the Yamaha EPH100 (which i absolutely adore). I will get them just because of that, but what do they sound like?




Get the hds1. Comfortable small light warm neutral sound cheap KZ etc etc get one lol


----------



## trumpethead

thomas de brito said:


> are you taking about the atr. There's a ktr model?



My bad I do mean ATR..lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> Get the hds1. Comfortable small light warm neutral sound cheap KZ etc etc get one lol


 
  
 Great suggestion. The ED3c is also a good one to try, though it leans toward the bassier side of things.


----------



## Deb1995

b9scrambler said:


> Great suggestion. The ED3c is also a good one to try, though it leans toward the bassier side of things.



Ed3c is a great IEM. I love them over my ATE. they sound much more clear and bright than Ate. I still use my Ed3c with triple flange ear tips.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Good. Now get some electrical tape and make a turn around nozzle lower part so it closes the port hole, just to test out open back + closed hole configuration
> ...


 
 For me and with my gear they are same clear or even slightly clearer due to the more accurate bass and percussion. Bass/percussion are tighter and more punchy without any bleed to other freq.
 They are to my ears on same detail/tightness/accuracy level as **** 4in1 and if I consider ATR highs, then the overall outcome is even better in that aspect. 
 ATR to my ears and my gear is best single dynamic that I have heard (especially in modified configuration) and their overall sound quality is also superior to all cheap hybrids I have.
 Only "fault" I can find - ATR soundstage frontal depth could be slightly better (further, more distant), but this is very minor "fault". ATE FF-mod is better in that part.
 Someone here just compared ATE vs. ATR and he seemed to have same opinion about imaging/soundstage.
 I haven`t started yet to make more difficult mods to ATR but I think I can "fix" that soundstage "fault" slightly. If I succeed, then they may overcome ATE FF-mod in overall SQ.


----------



## pashhtk27

tripside said:


> Been a while since i bought  a KZ iem. Bought KZ ATE and ED10 last year and came out unimpressed. I found the ATE pretty uncomfortable to wear and ED10 was a tad harsh to my ears. Also didn't like the cables on them.
> 
> Would love to know which KZ models are worth checking out right now ? Looking for a warm to neutral sounding earphones
> 
> I also came across the HDS2, which looks basically a clone of the Yamaha EPH100 (which i absolutely adore). I will get them just because of that, but what do they sound like?




I don't think HDS2 got any positive impressions from the few people who bought them.

I would recommend ED3c for energetic signature and EDR2, for a more neutral signature. Or you can also try ED7 mini that while I don't have, the few impression from those who have them seem to suggest that it has a warm signature like ate with a bit more bass.


----------



## Ruben123

I really tried but don't hear tighter bass with the holes closed. It sounds darker instead, just as what closing the vents on some other earphones do. To me then. I do have more atrs so I'll be comparing the removed backplate to the normal one in short time.


----------



## CoiL

Idk, maybe You have less powerful amp, listen vastly different genre, source gear isn`t so resolving, different tips & ear canal fit or something else.
 They certainly are not darker sounding.
 Like I said, maybe it is Your source gear and/or You personal hearing is different. Btw, are You using KZ "starline" tips?
 Anyway, as much as I`ve read Your posts and impressions and add the fact that You don`t hear source gear differences etc. - our experience and opinions just do not align most of time. Not saying You hear wrong or I`m right - ppl hear differently etc.
  
 Edit: Btw, I now had time to ran through all my 8x ATR properly and good news - they all sound same to me (with "starline" tips) and have same good build quality. I ordered 2x 4-pack from gearbest and one pack had QC marks on package and silicone tips installed in stock, the other 4 had no QC sticker but were closed in wrap-plastic and had foam tips installed as stock. Firstly I was afraid that they sound little different but I can now confirm that there are no difference in build quality and sound quality - great job KZ! First time I can say good things about KZ quality control and stability.


----------



## LaBoomz

Just got my ZS3 but it feels that the right driver is louder than the left. I don't know if it's placebo or it really is imbalance. Has anyone encountered this before? If so is there anyway to fix it or I have to get them exchanged?


----------



## To.M

I had this problem with my ATE, the first pair came with channel imbalance, test it with that for example: https://youtu.be/hTvJoYnpeRQ

In my case the seller sent me a new pair.


----------



## LaBoomz

to.m said:


> I had this problem with my ATE, the first pair came with channel imbalance, test it with that for example: https://youtu.be/hTvJoYnpeRQ
> 
> In my case the seller sent me a new pair.


 
 Thank you so much! They are indeed imbalance. Compared it to my k550 and m6 pro and the difference became really apparent. Gonna request for a new pair.


----------



## squallkiercosa

The more I use the ZS3, the more I convinced they were a mistake from another brand regarding ergonomics and wanted to get rid of the shells. The cable goes far from the ear and the nozzle goes a bit low. The ATR (the cheapest on GB) and the ZS3 seem to be cut from the same cloth, I really believe the sound changes are due to the enclosure more than anything else. Too early to decide


----------



## CoiL

squallkiercosa said:


> The ATR (the cheapest on GB) and the ZS3 seem to be cut from the same cloth, I really believe the sound changes are due to the enclosure more than anything else.


 
 But if You look at inside pics and advertising pics from inner construction - they use different drivers! ZS3 and ATR do not use same drivers imo, though, I do not have ZS3 to open and confirm.


----------



## squallkiercosa

coil said:


> But if You look at inside pics and advertising pics from inner construction - they use different drivers! ZS3 and ATR do not use same drivers imo, though, I do not have ZS3 to open and confirm.


 
 Advertising pics? those are renderings, If by any chance the shells broke I will make sure to post some pics, or if I get too bored. Whatever comes first. The ATR sounds good though


----------



## Freetrademan

coil said:


> Idk, maybe You have less powerful amp, listen vastly different genre, source gear isn`t so resolving, different tips & ear canal fit or something else.
> They certainly are not darker sounding.
> Like I said, maybe it is Your source gear and/or You personal hearing is different. Btw, are You using KZ "starline" tips?
> Anyway, as much as I`ve read Your posts and impressions and add the fact that You don`t hear source gear differences etc. - our experience and opinions just do not align most of time. Not saying You hear wrong or I`m right - ppl hear differently etc.
> ...


 
 What? You can buy the ATR in a 4-pack? Is it even cheaper that way? I just ordered 7!


----------



## Keller1

The ZST gets a bad rap. These are great. I think i like them as much as i like the ATE.

 Slightly less and less nice bass, but instrument seperation is top notch.


----------



## rockingthearies

I think the ZS3 might have turn me into a borderline basshead I really love how the ZS3 brings out the drumset.And ever since I switch from an iphone 5s to an LG V20 man i was blown away the only feeling I could describe was skull numbing.


----------



## CoiL

freetrademan said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Idk, maybe You have less powerful amp, listen vastly different genre, source gear isn`t so resolving, different tips & ear canal fit or something else.
> ...


 
 LOL, no. I just ordered 4x2 because if I order over certain sum or package gets too big, I have to pay for customs.


----------



## ilker

to.m said:


> I had this problem with my ATE, the first pair came with channel imbalance, test it with that for example: https://youtu.be/hTvJoYnpeRQ
> 
> In my case the seller sent me a new pair.


 

 Received my ATE  today checked and its all good ...
 Although sounds a bit boomy and on bass side compare to my RHA T10s but hey its only $8 ! Great value for money
 thanks for the link


----------



## squallkiercosa

Coil, the ATR sounds pretty good and they seem to stay in my ears (Talking about competition) I see a potential gift for Christmas.


----------



## MAntunes

Hi guys! What kind of tips do you recommend for the ZS3?
 I have the ATE and the foam tips are my favourite, but they fall of on the ZS3.


----------



## mebaali

mantunes said:


> Hi guys! What kind of tips do you recommend for the ZS3?
> I have the ATE and the foam tips are my favourite, but they fall of on the ZS3.




I use KZs Starline tips (medium size). Gives a pretty solid seal & isolation (without being too airtight) for my ear canal shape.


----------



## doggiemom

I received my ATR order today from Gearbest.  Initial impressions:
  
 Mine came with the foam tips installed.  One tip was kinda smooshed from the way it was packaged, and they did not feel comfortable.  I swapped them out for Spinfits and like that much better.  The ATRs sound good straight out of my iPhone 6S with Tidal, but even better through the Mojo (no surprise there).  The highs sound a bit sharp to me, and the shape is weird....... the long canals and end weighting make it difficult to keep them in at the optimal angle.  I got a tragus piercing in one ear before I started this IEM odyssey, so fit is always a problem for me.  The Spinfits help with that. 
  
 These are very detailed, and the bass kicks yet is not distorted.  I think these flatter female vocals vs. males, as the bass bleeds into the mids a bit.
  
 That being said, these are the best under $5 IEMs I have.  Actually, they are the only under $5 IEMs I have, as the Monks are $5 and are earbuds.  If they could be put in a casing that I could fall asleep with (ear on pillow) I'd pay at least 20x more.  These may replace the Rock Zircons as my work IEMs.  These sound much better than the price would imply!


----------



## Ruben123

doggiemom said:


> I received my ATR order today from Gearbest.  Initial impressions:
> 
> Mine came with the foam tips installed.  One tip was kinda smooshed from the way it was packaged, and they did not feel comfortable.  I swapped them out for Spinfits and like that much better.  The ATRs sound good straight out of my iPhone 6S with Tidal, but even better through the Mojo (no surprise there).  The highs sound a bit sharp to me, and the shape is weird....... the long canals and end weighting make it difficult to keep them in at the optimal angle.  I got a tragus piercing in one ear before I started this IEM odyssey, so fit is always a problem for me.  The Spinfits help with that.
> 
> ...




You sure you have the Atr? As far as I know the Atr doesn't come with foam tips but the ate does.


----------



## CoiL

Ruben... read the thread, I just talked about ATR and some do come with foam tips.
  


doggiemom said:


> These are very detailed, and the bass kicks yet is not distorted.  I think these flatter female vocals vs. males, as the bass bleeds into the mids a bit.


 
 I don`t notice any bass bleed into mids but I agree on kick, no distort and details.


----------



## Ruben123

Weird, why would they sell different models? Only thing I can think of is that at GB they include foam tips themselves


----------



## CoiL

KZ tends to "upgrade" packages/materials like we have seen on ATE. GB hasn`t added those foams since the ones that had foams installed were wrapped(melted) in plastic. Go back and read my post.


----------



## doggiemom

coil said:


> KZ tends to "upgrade" packages/materials like we have seen on ATE. GB hasn`t added those foams since the ones that had foams installed were wrapped(melted) in plastic. Go back and read my post.


 

 Yes, the box I received was in a sealed plastic wrapper like CoiL's.  The foam tips were on the ATRs, and there was a small plastic bag included with 3 pairs of silicone tips.
  
 I placed an order for another few pairs of the ATRs in case of breakage or loss....... at that price I can afford some backups!


----------



## fatct

What are the top 5 most popular KZ model ?


----------



## Ruben123

fatct said:


> What are the top 5 most popular KZ model ?




I think
Ed9, ed3c, ate or Atr, ed10 and hds1. But to be fair most of the posts now are about the Atr and zs3


----------



## carltonh

ruben123 said:


> I think
> Ed9, ed3c, ate or Atr, ed10 and hds1. But to be fair most of the posts now are about the Atr and zs3


 
 Judging the ED3 by the ED3 S3 model, I think it over rated. IMO, the top 5 KZs are 1. ATE/ATR 2. ED9 3. ED10. 4. ZS3 5 ED8.
  
 Note I also have and compared the ED4, ED4 S4, HDS3, ED7, Zn1 Mini, and EDR2. The last of which might be in the top 5, depending on comfort of the ED8.


----------



## zabunny94

@carltonh i feel that ed3 kinda underated, and it has different sound than ed3c/ed3m

popularity wise, I guess the order would be like this
1. ate
2. zs3
3. ed9
4. edse/ed2/edr1(they're all the same)
5. ed10

that's probably the iem that gonna show up if you search for "knowledge zenith" on google


----------



## fatct

Is there any different between ATE and ATR ?? 
 what about KZ ZST ? It's a hybrid with a pretty good price .


----------



## CoiL

fatct said:


> Is there any different between ATE and ATR ??


 
 Different sounding. ATR has more balanced and detailed(clearer) sound while ATE has smoother highs, bigger and more open soundstage (better frontal depth) and slightly fuller/bigger sounding bass.
  
 My top pick from KZ would be (not in order of preference):
 ATE
 ATR
 ED9
 EDSE
 EDR2
 HDS1
 ANV (discontinued unfortunately)
  
 Haven`t tried them yet but I think ZS3 and ZN1 mini would be also on that list.


----------



## To.M

fatct said:


> what about KZ ZST ? It's a hybrid with a pretty good price .



Yes, on 11.11 you can get ZST for less than 10usd which is a great price, I have ATE and ZST, like them both but ZST a bit more  if you get a proper seal (I use the biggest tips from the box) then they sound good.


----------



## vegetaleb

to.m said:


> Yes, on 11.11 you can get ZST for less than 10usd which is a great price, I have ATE and ZST, like them both but ZST a bit more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't understand this 50% system, do you have to buy coupons to get the 50% or what?


----------



## fonkepala

I'm really liking my pair of HDS1. Tiny, light, very comfy, good sound, treble needs some work but otherwise Ok. Cable seems sturdy enough but the microphonic is really bad, the slightest movement transmits a lot of cable noise. Wearing them cable up lessens it considerably. Overall, thumbs up from me.


----------



## To.M

vegetaleb said:


> I don't understand this 50% system, do you have to buy coupons to get the 50% or what?




No, on 11.11 there will be special prices for everyone, coupons are a different thing, it is good to have them but you don't need them to get a specal sale price.


----------



## vegetaleb

to.m said:


> No, on 11.11 there will be special prices for everyone, coupons are a different thing, it is good to have them but you don't need them to get a specal sale price.


 
  
 Black Friday a la aliexpress then 
 Better start putting some $ in my internet card, so which model has memory wire and less bass than ATEs?


----------



## Ruben123

vegetaleb said:


> Black Friday a la aliexpress then
> Better start putting some $ in my internet card, so which model has memory wire and less bass than ATEs?


 

 ZS3 I think? I dont know of other KZs with memory wire - and less bass. Or didnt you mean the ATES?


----------



## vegetaleb

ruben123 said:


> ZS3 I think? I dont know of other KZs with memory wire - and less bass. Or didnt you mean the ATES?


 

 Yep the ATES, very good SQ but too bassy for me


----------



## To.M

vegetaleb
Yeah, something like that  it is a Chinese holiday then - Single's Day

Well, from the cheap ones- QKZ W1 PRO


----------



## vegetaleb

Zs3 is bassy?
 Whta's the difference between ZS3 and ZS3s?


----------



## rockingthearies

vegetaleb said:


> Zs3 is bassy?
> Whta's the difference between ZS3 and ZS3s?



Yes ZS3 is bassy but its tight. ZS3s is plural of ZS3


----------



## vegetaleb

rockingthearies said:


> Yes ZS3 is bassy but its tight. ZS3s is plural of ZS3


 
  
 There are 2 models at Easy shop
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Original-KZ-ZS3-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic-Hifi-Sport-In-ear-Earphone-Dynamic-Driver/519064_32679857635.html
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Arrived-KZ-ZS3-Hifi-Sport-In-ear-Earphone-Dynamic-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic/519064_32681579071.html
  
 Looks like one is glossy and the other is matte, I wonder if there is any difference in SQ like ATE vs ATES
 BTW if the ATES fit good in my ears the ZS3 should be good too or the shape is different?


----------



## rockingthearies

vegetaleb said:


> There are 2 models at Easy shop
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2016-Original-KZ-ZS3-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic-Hifi-Sport-In-ear-Earphone-Dynamic-Driver/519064_32679857635.html
> 
> ...




Oh oops, but i have the glossy one here and its sound signatures sound like what was describe here so I don't thino there is a difference between the matte and glossy one


----------



## gemmoglock

Hi I am overwhelmed by the wealth of resources here.
  
 Can someone give me a summary or links? I'm trying to decide between the KZ ATES, ZS3, or ZTS bundled with KZ's silver cable.
  
 Prefer a sound signature that is in between the two extremes of my V-shaped UE200/500 and mid-centred Creative Aurvana In-Ear 3. It can be v shaped but the bass should not be boomy and muddy (like SE215 urrgh) and nice sing-in-the-shower vocal mids.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## gemmoglock

maxwelled said:


> I received my KZ upgraded cables today for both the ZST and the ZS3, keep in mind that they're different from each other.
> 
> I just got a new found respect for the KZ ZST. I don't understand why KZ didn't just offer it with the upgraded cable to begin with, the ZST should've sounded like it does now with the upgrade cable out of the box. At the moment, if you buy the ZST and then get the upgrade cable it'll cost more or close to the 4in1 and that's unfortunate.
> 
> ...


 
  
 How does the ZST compare to the ZS3 (especially with the silver KZ cables) and ATES? I don't like too bassy a signature, and mids must come out smoothly. Thanks!


----------



## maxwelled

gemmoglock said:


> How does the ZST compare to the ZS3 (especially with the silver KZ cables) and ATES? I don't like too bassy a signature, and mids must come out smoothly. Thanks!




Been quite busy with work, so I haven't had any time for my audio hobby ;(. First, I'd like say that the KZ ZST's sound signature has grown on me. I used to only prefer a colder sound signature, so on my first listen with the stock cable (without any burn in, stock tips: it sounded veiled) I already wanted to give them away because it'll just collect dust from being unused. Though, I decided to give them another go by burning them in and buying the upgraded silver cables in hopes to see at least some difference. After using them daily for 2 weeks, I had started to like it more and the upgraded silver cable made it less warm and thus affecting it by making it slightly clearer due to the bass not being so overpowering.

Now as for the ZS3, the sound signature is definitely warmer/darker than the ZST. The ZS3 sounded great when listening to rap, trap, dubstep etc because of the thump (it did overpower the mids)...but for my preference they were too dark and had too much bass. I also had some issues with the ZS3: QC problem with 1 pair, how they sealed - they pressurized my ears when using silicone tips, but using foam tips fixed it. The imaging (direction) on the ZS3 was lacking; the 'front' always felt like it was 'below' which was weird - and made me have to always readjust it but found no perfect way to wear them. For my ears they were too finicky, almost like an earbud where I couldn't find the perfect 'spot' where it sounded great all the time.

As for the ATE-S, I don't really remember how they were because I ended up liking the ATE more. I only remember it being more bassy than the ATE, and less annoying due to the memory wire. Both of them I ended up giving away :/. ATE-S due to it being bass heavy. However I really liked the ATE's but a friend begged for them, so there it went.

The ATR on the other hand is a bang for your buck and sounds pretty amazing(note: I'm not saying the BEST) that when I gave away 2 pairs (I bought more because I was impressed with the sound quality for the price they were going for), their recipients asked me how much it cost and couldn't believe me when I said $5. I enjoy using the ATR more than the ZST with silver cable, it is colder than the ZST. And if I had to choose only 1 from the current line up of KZ earphones; it would be the ATR due to cost to performance ratio and the sound signature is closer to my preference. And from what you said as your preference in sound, I believe you're also on the same boat as me - that being that you'd like the way the ATR sounds.

Keep in mind that these are just my opinions on them; they are all still cheaply made budget Chinese in-ears that will have QC problems and have variations in sound from batch to batch.


Here's a picture of a part of my collection (budget types of iems) and their spares (I always buy 2 or more, as they're cheap and they do break...because they're cheap lol) including my 'on-the-go' gear: the trusty rbxd xduoo x3 dap and fio amp.


edit: after posting this picture, it made me want to go and use my modded xiaomi piston v2.


----------



## CoiL

vegetaleb said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > ZS3 I think? I dont know of other KZs with memory wire - and less bass. Or didnt you mean the ATES?
> ...


 
 ATR. ZS3 should be littlebit more bassy and V-shaped than ATR according to what I`ve read out of impressions. 
  
 Agree @ maxwell recommendation and impressions. Only KZ that comes over ATR for me is ATE in modified configuration.
  
 Btw, I installed MMCX connectors on my ATR and using it with this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Earmax-Upgrade-4-core-Hand-Made-Silver-Plated-Earphone-Headset-Headphone-Cable-for-Shure-SE215/32615926395.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=66792877-579a-4850-9d9a-00f9467eb833


----------



## dilidani

Guys! Which should I pick?
 ED10/11 vs ATE-S? I like darker warmer mids-treble, big and deep bass for trance-house-trap-hardcore-etc. Oh, and source is smartphone (GalaxyS4).


----------



## Ruben123

Ed10 is v shaped, while the ate s has recessed treble


----------



## maxwelled

coil said:


> ATR. ZS3 should be littlebit more bassy and V-shaped than ATR according to what I`ve read out of impressions.
> 
> Agree @ maxwell recommendation and impressions. Only KZ that comes over ATR for me is ATE in modified configuration.
> 
> Btw, I installed MMCX connectors on my ATR and using it with this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Earmax-Upgrade-4-core-Hand-Made-Silver-Plated-Earphone-Headset-Headphone-Cable-for-Shure-SE215/32615926395.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10091_10090_10088_10089,searchweb201603_1&btsid=66792877-579a-4850-9d9a-00f9467eb833


 
  
  
 Interesting! I'm interested in this! How hard was it to do the MMCX connectors on the ATR mod? Can you post a picture? I do have a soldering station and tools as well as experience in soldering/wiring/pcb etc but I've never anything as delicate as audio related (everything is dang small and thin).


----------



## hakuzen

*KZ ATR (stock) - KZ ZS3*
  
 frequency response (raw measures, no accurate, just for tonal comparison purposes)
 (used ibasso d14, dayton imm6, home made "coupler", pc soundcard)
  

  
 probably we perceive zs3 bassier, because of their sub-bass (+3-4dB north of atr). mid-bass is the same.
 atr highs sound smoother: note the zs3 treble are higher overall, peaks at 2.5KHz, 4.5KHz, and 9KHz.
 so atr are more balanced, although still v-shaped, compared with other neutral iems, and quite amount of bass, like all kzs i own.
  
 btw, @CoiL, tried closing the hole in the nozzle of the atr. no significant variation in frequency response, so that mod might affect other parameters to change the sound (didn't listen to them carefully).


----------



## 1clearhead

budgetlistener said:


> Then why do you rank them 13rd on your dynamics list?


 

 Sorry, didn't mean to  mislead you by my list. .....In my consideration of a "good budget earphone" in *a whole package*, I also consider several "key factors" like; build quality (including wires), comfort, materials (plastic VS alloy, or metal), selection of tuned nozzles and silicone/comply tips, detachable wires, and even none-sports, walk abouts, studio monitors VS custom made or sports, also accessories, package, and finally price! Again, this is all to my own personal preference and picks, not just in sound alone!
  
 I just don't include the above on my list because I'll exceed the amount of words I can include in "my profile".
  
 Hope this helps!


----------



## dilidani

ruben123 said:


> Ed10 is v shaped, while the ate s has recessed treble


 

 Recessed like rolled-off? Could you compare to Zircon or any more famous IEM?


----------



## CoiL

dilidani said:


> ruben123 said:
> 
> 
> > Ed10 is v shaped, while the ate s has recessed treble
> ...


 
 Yes, I wanted to say same thing - it is rather rolled-off, smooth and warm highs not recessed.


maxwelled said:


> How hard was it to do the MMCX connectors on the ATR mod? Can you post a picture? I do have a soldering station and tools as well as experience in soldering/wiring/pcb etc but I've never anything as delicate as audio related (everything is dang small and thin).


 
 Quite easy actually. I did it just for testing different impedance cables, so, not nicest work (white residue is super-gel-glue for fixing socket more securely). This is smartphone pic, sorry for quality:



hakuzen said:


> btw, @CoiL, tried closing the hole in the nozzle of the atr. no significant variation in frequency response, so that mod might affect other parameters to change the sound (didn't listen to them carefully).


 
 Yep, that doesn`t probably show up well on graphs (that`s why I think graphs show only about 1/3 of actual IEM sound).
 Did You use KZ "starline" tips for measurement on ATR ? Starline tips make them more balanced. But closing the holes certainly changes the sound. I just did test yesterday when I pulled off port hole covers while listening. While ATR sounds more "clear" and "bright" with open holes, I think it lacks bass & percussion tightness, kick and growl. Closing holes creates more air-pressure inside ear-canal and improves latter aspects. I certainly like ATR more open back + closed ports + starline tips over the stock configuration. I like it also because I can listen at lower vol levels without losing detail and keeping tightness/kick of bass and percussion.


----------



## hakuzen

> Yep, that doesn`t probably show up well on graphs (that`s why I think graphs show only about 1/3 of actual IEM sound). Did You use KZ "starline" tips for measurement on ATR ? Starline tips make them more balanced. But closing the holes certainly changes the sound. I just did test yesterday when I pulled off port hole covers while listening. While ATR sounds more "clear" and "bright" with open holes, I think it lacks bass & percussion tightness, kick and growl. Closing holes creates more air-pressure inside ear-canal and improves latter aspects. I certainly like ATR more open back + closed ports + starline tips over the stock configuration. I like it also because I can listen at lower vol levels without losing detail and keeping tightness/kick of bass and percussion.


 
 used no tips for measurement (my "coupler" has silicone termination which wraps the nude nozzle), but i'm using the ksz starline in most my iems (great isolation, large nozzle, medium-wide bore, they are superb!).
 i hear you. it's like the cables and many other things. they don't affect tonality (so frequency response is not altered), but might affect distortion in some frequencies, time parameters, i don't know, a newbie here. i do notice different sound with some cables, clearly, but they don't affect frequency response.
 after your explanation, i think i'll keep the holes opened (sound preference). thanks!


----------



## vegetaleb

What about ATR vs ZST? ZST is bassier?
 I have difficult ears  and 90% of earphones fall easy in sports but when I use memory wires, the ATR have no memory wires nor the ZST though I can buy one ''plug and play'' memory wire cable for the ZST


----------



## gemmoglock

maxwelled said:


> Been quite busy with work, so I haven't had any time for my audio hobby ;(. First, I'd like say that the KZ ZST's sound signature has grown on me. I used to only prefer a colder sound signature, so on my first listen with the stock cable (without any burn in, stock tips: it sounded veiled) I already wanted to give them away because it'll just collect dust from being unused. Though, I decided to give them another go by burning them in and buying the upgraded silver cables in hopes to see at least some difference. After using them daily for 2 weeks, I had started to like it more and the upgraded silver cable made it less warm and thus affecting it by making it slightly clearer due to the bass not being so overpowering.
> 
> Now as for the ZS3, the sound signature is definitely warmer/darker than the ZST. The ZS3 sounded great when listening to rap, trap, dubstep etc because of the thump (it did overpower the mids)...but for my preference they were too dark and had too much bass. I also had some issues with the ZS3: QC problem with 1 pair, how they sealed - they pressurized my ears when using silicone tips, but using foam tips fixed it. The imaging (direction) on the ZS3 was lacking; the 'front' always felt like it was 'below' which was weird - and made me have to always readjust it but found no perfect way to wear them. For my ears they were too finicky, almost like an earbud where I couldn't find the perfect 'spot' where it sounded great all the time.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks for your detailed reply, awesome pic  Seems like ZS3 is quite bassy. How would the ATR and ZTS (with/without silver cables) or ED12 compare?

 If anyone has heard the ZS3 and find it less bassy then the Ultimate Ears 200 or 500 let me know, UE bass is about the max I'm comfortable with


----------



## vegetaleb

Why so many people complaining on the ZS3 comfort and fit? is that so bad?


----------



## Ruben123

Probably depends, I've never had a more comfortable earphone.


----------



## fonkepala

vegetaleb said:


> Why so many people complaining on the ZS3 comfort and fit? is that so bad?


 
  
 The housings of the ZS3 doesn't hurt my ears per se, but when I put them inside my ear canals I feel a weird pressurised sensation, more in my left ear than my right one. It's a less than pleasant feeling. After a while I have to take the ZS3 out just to take a break from that sensation.


----------



## Redcarmoose

maxwelled said:


> Been quite busy with work, so I haven't had any time for my audio hobby ;(. First, I'd like say that the KZ ZST's sound signature has grown on me. I used to only prefer a colder sound signature, so on my first listen with the stock cable (without any burn in, stock tips: it sounded veiled) I already wanted to give them away because it'll just collect dust from being unused. Though, I decided to give them another go by burning them in and buying the upgraded silver cables in hopes to see at least some difference. After using them daily for 2 weeks, I had started to like it more and the upgraded silver cable made it less warm and thus affecting it by making it slightly clearer due to the bass not being so overpowering.
> 
> Now as for the ZS3, the sound signature is definitely warmer/darker than the ZST. The ZS3 sounded great when listening to rap, trap, dubstep etc because of the thump (it did overpower the mids)...but for my preference they were too dark and had too much bass. I also had some issues with the ZS3: QC problem with 1 pair, how they sealed - they pressurized my ears when using silicone tips, but using foam tips fixed it. The imaging (direction) on the ZS3 was lacking; the 'front' always felt like it was 'below' which was weird - and made me have to always readjust it but found no perfect way to wear them. For my ears they were too finicky, almost like an earbud where I couldn't find the perfect 'spot' where it sounded great all the time.
> 
> ...




My implement to decrease bass has been making rubber spacers and using aftermarket tips with a small hole. 

I use large tips so my collection of small tips never get used. I pull back the tip and cut the inner "tube" section off with a ceramic knife. Some members here do the same thing by putting a small "O" ring in place before adding on the standard tip, to get it farther out on the nozzle. 

My way has the spacers at about 90% of the long ATE nozzle, then a large silicone tip goes only just at the tip of the nozzle. This procedure gets a deeper tip insertion keeping the large ATE driver housing mounted better in the ear. The placement keeps the IEM from ever moving. The smaller tip hole diameter then acts as a bass reduction, as well as I feel the IEM itself being further away from the tip also acts to reduce bass. There is also a slight soundstage change in character. 

I'm a cable believer and believe silver cables would change the ATE, to more treble, less bass, if the model ever came with detachable cables.


----------



## trumpethead

fonkepala said:


> The housings of the ZS3 doesn't hurt my ears per se, but when I put them inside my ear canals I feel a weird pressurised sensation, more in my left ear than my right one. It's a less than pleasant feeling. After a while I have to take the ZS3 out just to take a break from that sensation.



I get the exact same feeling of pressure in my left ear only...it is lessened if I don't insert too deeply...foams generally don't work for me they decrease the sound quality overall imo...for the sound quality and the price I can live with the slight pressure....


----------



## vegetaleb

trumpethead said:


> I get the exact same feeling of pressure in my left ear only...it is lessened if I don't insert too deeply...foams generally don't work for me they decrease the sound quality overall imo...for the sound quality and the price I can live with the slight pressure....


 
  
 So it's like the ATE-S, I feel the same pressure after 15mins
 Other models like ATR and ZST are better?


----------



## fonkepala

vegetaleb said:


> So it's like the ATE-S, I feel the same pressure after 15mins
> Other models like ATR and ZST are better?


 
  
 I don't get that pressurised feeling with my ATE, ATR or the ATE-S.


----------



## CoiL

redcarmoose said:


> The smaller tip hole diameter then acts as a bass reduction, as well as I feel the IEM itself being further away from the tip also acts to reduce bass. There is also a slight soundstage change in character.
> I'm a cable believer and believe silver cables would change the ATE, to more treble, less bass, if the model ever came with detachable cables.


 
 Smaller tip hole diameter (in case of ATE) does not reduce bass, actually it does opposite.
 Larger bore silicone tips make bass of ATE lighter and overall sound slightly brighter and clearer. Larger bore nozzles have same effect but noticeably more.
 I have heavily modded my ATE`s and tried many many different things, so, I know very well what I`m talking about. 
 Also tried different impedances cables (low as ~05 ohm) with ATE and didn`t notice much difference (if any). Silver cables probably won`t affect sound, rather higher impedance (1 and over Ohm) will make them more "smoother" sounding. 
  
 Can You post a pic about Your ATE spacers and tip? If I understood correctly, Your method actually makes tip and nozzle length longer? Then how can it go "deeper" and give more secure fit?
 Housing will be too much out of ear "cave" such way imo
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 My opinion about ATE is, that it need deep fit and small silicone tips with wide bore to sound better and more balanced.


fonkepala said:


> vegetaleb said:
> 
> 
> > So it's like the ATE-S, I feel the same pressure after 15mins
> ...


 
 Same here, no issues with "pressure" or discomfort.


----------



## Mellowship

coil said:


> Smaller tip hole diameter (in case of ATE) does not reduce bass, actually it does opposite.
> Larger bore silicone tips make bass of ATE lighter and overall sound slightly brighter and clearer. Larger bore nozzles have same effect but noticeably more.
> I have heavily modded my ATE`s and tried many many different things, so, I know very well what I`m talking about.
> Also tried different impedances cables (low as ~05 ohm) with ATE and didn`t notice much difference (if any). Silver cables probably won`t affect sound, rather higher impedance (1 and over Ohm) will make them more "smoother" sounding.
> ...


 
  
 I do feel the "pressurized" air sensation, but doesn't bother me, even after more than 1 hour. Same sensation with the Sony mh1c. I even believe that contributes to a better, more accurate bass response.


----------



## zabunny94

@Redcarmoose in my opinion, the best way to get rid of bass is using kz whirlwind tips. and based on my experience with radius nef11 which has 2 steps tips placement, adding distance between the driver to your ear actually increase the bass, while closing the distance actually get rid of the bass

also i think that changing eartips actually affect the sound more than changing the cable material(its not like that "using pure silver can reduce bass" claim already proven anyway)


----------



## CoiL

zabunny94 said:


> @Redcarmoose in my opinion, the best way to get rid of bass is using kz whirlwind tips. and based on my experience with radius nef11 which has 2 steps tips placement, adding distance between the driver to your ear actually increase the bass, while closing the distance actually get rid of the bass
> 
> also i think that changing eartips actually affect the sound more than changing the cable material(its not like that "using pure silver can reduce bass" claim already proven anyway)


 
 Agree on whirlwind tips (they are large bore). Also agree about tips changing sound much more than cables will ever be possible to change.
 About distance between driver and ear-drum, well, depends on IEM build and driver. But most of times, increasing distance makes bass more prominent (or even boomy) due it creates more air-space and air-movement inside ear-canal. Then there is important thing if nozzle inside barrel has any edges or not - edges also usually increase bass level but could also improve bass tightness along with port hole configuration.


----------



## nolife1123

trumpethead said:


> I get the exact same feeling of pressure in my left ear only...it is lessened if I don't insert too deeply...foams generally don't work for me they decrease the sound quality overall imo...for the sound quality and the price I can live with the slight pressure....



I managed to get rid of both driver flex and the pressure by using double flange tips on my **** UE, different earphones but the same issue+solution


----------



## B9Scrambler

Decided to pull out an older KZ for a listen, the LPS. They've still got it!


----------



## To.M

Wow, never heard of them, thanx for this trip down the memory lane!


----------



## B9Scrambler

to.m said:


> Wow, never heard of them, thanx for this trip down the memory lane!


 
  
 They're clearly "inspired" by V-Moda's headphones, but they were a great buy at the 30 or 40 CAD when I got them. Came with two cables and a nice hard case. If you look back in the thread you can find some nice pictures of it all. @Wokei's is worth hunting down with it's snazzy custom paint job.
  
 There was also the LP2 which looked nigh identical, but folded up. Always wanted to get a pair never had the opportunity.
  
 http://www.kzearphone.com/English/Product/679530290.html


----------



## fonkepala

What's the consensus on the HDS2 & HDS3? Anyone like them? I really like my HDS1, and if the next iterations are better, I'm all game to get some


----------



## CoiL

If I recall correctly, then HDS2 was "crap" and HDS3 has lot of quality problems. Correct me if I`m wrong. 
  
 I would rather get ATR or 2nd gen ATE non-S.


----------



## RvTrav

coil said:


> Differences in other series can be also on QKZ HD9 vs.KZ HD9 ? Not trying to make a point or argue, just that there can be differences. Heck, if even KZ own ATE series has at least 4-5 different batches, then claiming QKZ vs. KZ branding doesn`t have differences is kind of "wrong" in my eyes...
> 
> Just thinking out loud.


 

 ​Several weeks ago I gave my initial impressions of the KZ HD9.  I followed up later with more details comparing it to the ATR.  At the time the HD9 was only available in white and I still can't see where it is available in black.  The QKZ DM200 that appears to be the same is available in black so I ordered one to compare.  The QKZ DM200 arrived today so I thought I would let you know how the comparison went.  Physically, beside the body being black, they are the same.  The cable is the same and both come with the KZ starline tips.  As expected the QKZ DM200 came packaged in the hard black QKZ case.  Sound wise they are the same so I am convinced that they are same internally as well.  As I indicated earlier in comparison to the ATR, I really like the tighter bass and more forward mids of the HD9.  If you consider yourself a serious collector of KZ earphones I believe that the HD9 or DM200 should be in your collection.  I see that both the HD9 and DM200 can still be found for under $10.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> If I recall correctly, then HDS2 was "crap" and HDS3 has lot of quality problems. Correct me if I`m wrong.
> 
> I would rather get ATR or 2nd gen ATE non-S.


 
  
 Pretty much spot on regarding the HDS2/3. To expand on "crap", the 2 sounds muddy and cheap. It sounds like what you would expect from a sub 10 USD earphone. The 3 is definitely the better of the two and isn't a bad earphone, but their v-shaped signature is a little rough around the edges and lacks the refinement, clarity, and precision of the HDS1. All imo of course.


----------



## trumpethead

vegetaleb said:


> So it's like the ATE-S, I feel the same pressure after 15mins
> Other models like ATR and ZST are better?



I am absolutely in Love with ATR especially for the price and sound quality, ZST Is growing on me with more play time. Planning on getting the upgraded cable to see if that makes it clearer, more detailed, and more balanced...never had that pressure issue with any other KZ except ZS3 and I really like the sound so I live with it. Wish I had wires without the ear guides for a better fit. Don't know if that would help with the pressurized feeling though...In any case gotta love KZ got value for dollar


----------



## Keller1

Out of all the KZs i have or have had, the HDS3 is easily the least good in terms of sound,. So far i have the RX, ATE[dead], ZST, ZS1[given away], HDS3.

 However they've got a redeeming feature - they're uber small- you can use them for a very long time and you wont feel a thing. You can also use them if you want to listen to something in bed - they're small enough for you to be able to comfortably rest your ear - they wont bother you.
  
  
 What set should i order next? Im going for the ZS3, ED12 and ATR next.
 I wanna check out the Rock Zircon, ED11/10 and ED9.
  
 What else would you guys recommend?


----------



## To.M

trumpethead said:


> I am absolutely in Love with ATR especially for the price and sound quality, ZST Is growing on me with more play time. Planning on getting the upgraded cable to see if that makes it clearer, more detailed, and more balanced...




I am waiting for the upgraded cable and in the meantime ZST became my favourite pair now  followed by KZ ATE and Tennmak Piano


----------



## fuzun

Whats the most flat sounding which has shape like zs3, zst, ... ?


----------



## vegetaleb

Is there a memory wire cable to plug on ZST we can buy?


----------



## rockingthearies

fuzun said:


> Whats the most flat sounding which has shape like zs3, zst, ... ?




I own both the ATR and ZS3 but not the the ZST among both I feel the ATR is flatter sounding. But its soundstage is not as wide as the ZS3. Thats the most obvious thing I can tell from the ATR apart from its bass, ZS3 have a lot of bass


----------



## vegetaleb

Ok battle of ZS: ZS1 vs ZS2 vs ZS3
 Which one has less bass and greater soundstage?


----------



## jmwreck

to.m said:


> I am waiting for the upgraded cable and in the meantime ZST became my favourite pair now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a Tennmak Pro and you like the ZST more than the Piano, I found Pro to have more detail and clarity, bass is fast and punchy, I haven't tried the Piano but as per the other's review, Pro and Piano are quite close.
  
 I found ZST to have a dull sound and no separation and quite congested. Maybe i've got a defective unit, but my ED12 sounds quite the same with my ZST too. 
  
 What is it you like on your ZST?


----------



## Redcarmoose

coil said:


> Smaller tip hole diameter (in case of ATE) does not reduce bass, actually it does opposite.
> Larger bore silicone tips make bass of ATE lighter and overall sound slightly brighter and clearer. Larger bore nozzles have same effect but noticeably more.
> I have heavily modded my ATE`s and tried many many different things, so, I know very well what I`m talking about.
> Also tried different impedances cables (low as ~05 ohm) with ATE and didn`t notice much difference (if any). Silver cables probably won`t affect sound, rather higher impedance (1 and over Ohm) will make them more "smoother" sounding.
> ...


 



  
 It is one way to get the tip farther placed in the ear canal, thus no movement at all after. I don't really have wide-bore tips, so in reality I'm going from medium wide to smaller sound holes. I personally believe getting the tip farther from the IEM gets you less bass. But you may be right about smaller bore getting more bass. In the end the sound is just a little less bass with way better fit, which I can wear for hours on end. Laughing at how bad my cut is, I need to make another pair of these spacers as the idea worked for me.
  
  
 It goes deeper as now your not only using the full length of the ATE nozzle but adding the non-nozzle length from the tip, only being placed on the edge. No one tries this as they think the nozzles are already way too long. I believe the nozzle IS this long due to KZ knowing it tunes the bass back. When just the tip is used, placement and wear can slowly push the tip all the way back which sits the IEM in a bad way against the surface of my ear. Not only are they held apart from my ear, but the tip is also deeper, holding everything in place. No driver flex, no air seal loss, perfection. Some day a company will make tips with a longer silicone tube, so that we can cut it at the desired length. I learned all this by studying a very different tip that worked well with all my IEMs. I learned that the difference was the tube was just longer than any tips I had. I learned that it DID place the tip farther out. So I looked for a methodology to improve the character of the tip idea, with other tips, and in the end it worked.


----------



## CoiL

jmwreck said:


> I found ZST to have a dull sound and no separation and quite congested. Maybe i've got a defective unit, but my ED12 sounds quite the same with my ZST too.


 
 Thanks for that. Was looking at colorful ZST and also ED12 (mainly for red/blue housings for modding). I quess I should still get Tennmak Pro instead (and mod it if needed).
  
@Redcarmoose , Idk, I have different experiences but I`ve also tried same trick with different IEM`s and generally it doesn`t give much improvement I would like and get from wide-to-small bore tip-rolling or nozzle and port hole modding. I really recommend You to try ATE with wide bore tips and get the nozzle inside ear-canal as deep as possible.
 This is one of my older pics from tip-rolling thread:


----------



## Redcarmoose

coil said:


> Thanks for that. Was looking at colorful ZST and also ED12 (mainly for red/blue housings for modding). I quess I should still get Tennmak Pro instead (and mod it if needed).
> 
> @Redcarmoose
> , Idk, I have different experiences but I`ve also tried same trick with different IEM`s and generally it doesn`t give much improvement I would like and get from wide-to-small bore tip-rolling or nozzle and port hole modding. I really recommend You to try ATE with wide bore tips and get the nozzle inside ear-canal as deep as possible.
> This is one of my older pics from tip-rolling thread:




Good suggestion on the wide-bore tips, I'll try. Still the photograph you posted would not fit my ears, without having the monitors themselves touch the outside of my ear in the wrong places. 

And.........that's the magic here, making it all fit!


----------



## gemmoglock

vegetaleb said:


> Ok battle of ZS: ZS1 vs ZS2 vs ZS3
> Which one has less bass and greater soundstage?


 
  
  
 Hi I have tried the ZS3, ZST, ED12, ATE and ATR. Not very big soundstage differences, mainly sound.
  
 Do note ATE is the older predecessor of ATR. I find ATR http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html  (use this link to order!) noticeably better as it is still the same price, but the bass is less bloated and muddy. Others have claimed treble extension is better but for me I just felt that it is smoother (which already is a benefit also). Sound signature is not too energetic, great to listen for extended periods.
  
 ZS3 is ATR but with more energetic sound overall. Stronger bass yet slightly more detail in mids and treble too. For me I came from a mid-centric Aurvana In-Ear 3 so I'm EQing the bass down for now, but some others have liked it. Sound stage maybe slightly larger than the ATR/ATE. Just as moving from ATR to ATE, the ZS3 seems to tighten the bass a little and give that bit more extension.
  
 ED12 is basically ATR with boosted mids and treble so it is kind of like a W shaped signature same as this review: https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/RWCZLLG8BNLE7
 It is interesting like his description listening to a jazz band and a vocalist as everything comes out at you. Although this signature is closest to my Aurvana I gave it a miss as I found the treble a little artificial and grainy like the ATE.
  
 ZST maybe has a soundstage between ATE/ATR and ZS3/ED12. The treble is smoothest thanks to the BA. It appears to be balanced on first listening, but when there are low bass rumbles the dynamic driver booms more than ZS3, giving me a jarring experience of smooth clear highs but boomy less-controlled bass. So although its treble is best I decided to get the ZS3 as it has a more liveable, coherent signature.
  
 I have heard that silver cables from KZ will make the ZST less bassy and improve soundstage but I didn't want to get so many IEMs when I don't usually rotate around. I will order a silver cable for my ZS3 on the 11/11 sale to try, though I've heard the ZST benefits more from the upgrade (NOTE they use different silver cables despite being 2-pinned so make sure the website you order from lets you choose silver cable for ZST or ZS3).
  
 In the end I got the ZS3. Haven't had much burn in and now stuck with stock cables, but ZS3 is pretty decent out of the box. After a few days of listening not much burn-in effects so I don't think it is really critical. Just avoiding stupid things like blasting extreme volumes. Listening to music as it burns in is not an issue as a result.
  
 ZS3 is bassy but if I can stand it coming from Aurvanas and previously UE200/500 it should be bearable for most types, maybe even insufficient.
  
 Edit: I forgot to mentioned I demoed the **** 4in1 with stock cables. The hybrid was executed better than ZST (duh more expensive) as it is coherent and I don't hear different separate personalities. BUT the treble is grainy and will boost sibilance so didn't like it. Unlike the ZST, the multiple BA/drivers does not boost bass much so it is not a basshead signature definitely.
  
 Update: I have just gotten silver cables for the ZS3. For those who don't believe in burn in here are my first impressions: cleaner and colder sound, for the ZS3 the reduction in bass is there but marginal.
  


to.m said:


> I am waiting for the upgraded cable and in the meantime ZST became my favourite pair now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  
 Keep us posted on the ZST with silver cables, I might be tempted to get one also if it works out well. My ideal sound is control of ZS3 bass with BA highs of ZST...


----------



## To.M

Ok I will! in my case ZST became less boomy with burn-in/time


----------



## hansv (Mar 29, 2020)

.


----------



## vencaxxx

Much cheaper on Gearbest


----------



## fonkepala

coil said:


> If I recall correctly, then HDS2 was "crap" and HDS3 has lot of quality problems. Correct me if I`m wrong.
> 
> I would rather get ATR or 2nd gen ATE non-S.


 
  
  


b9scrambler said:


> Pretty much spot on regarding the HDS2/3. To expand on "crap", the 2 sounds muddy and cheap. It sounds like what you would expect from a sub 10 USD earphone. The 3 is definitely the better of the two and isn't a bad earphone, but their v-shaped signature is a little rough around the edges and lacks the refinement, clarity, and precision of the HDS1. All imo of course.


 
  
 Thanks for clearing this up. Pity, as I think KZ had a winner with the HDS1. I wear them to listen to music while I wait for sleep, they're that comfortable.
  
 Perhaps I'll take a look at the EDR12.


----------



## CoiL

redcarmoose said:


> ...without having the monitors themselves touch the outside of my ear in the wrong places.
> 
> And.........that's the magic here, making it all fit!


 
 Meh? Sorry, don`t understand You. Deeper fit will provide better earphone shell fit into outer ear-cavity. Or do You have very large ears and long ear-canals? Then I understand what is Your issue with fit and why You extend nozzle length with spacers and tips.


----------



## gemmoglock

hansv said:


> Can someone post me in the right direction?
> I want to buy the *matte* ZS3 on aliexpress (11.11 sale) but not sure wich shop to trust.
> 
> ZS3 @ 15.94 euro (266 items sold)
> ...


 
  
  
 Refer to my earlier post:


gemmoglock said:


> Hi I have tried the ZS3, ZST, ED12, ATE and ATR. Not very big soundstage differences, mainly sound.
> 
> Do note ATE is the older predecessor of ATR. I find ATR http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html?vip=442524  (use this link to order!) noticeably better as it is still the same price, but the bass is less bloated and muddy. Others have claimed treble extension is better but for me I just felt that it is smoother (which already is a benefit also). Sound signature is not too energetic, great to listen for extended periods.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can use the Gearbest link I have in my post  you should skip the ATE and get another ATR or ATES for the memory loop. There is no area the ATE is better than the ATR IMHO. Also you are better off with the glossy one. The matte one is old stock and the glossy one I demoed seem to be a bit more refined and less boomy than the matte one. If you are buying all at one go consider getting KZ's star eartips and the silver upgrade cables for testing. Do note ZS3, ED12 and ZST cable connectors are NOT identical so you must choose correctly on your preferred retail site.
  
 Have fun! I'm on a budget so I'm staying with ATR plus ZS3 for now. ZST from others' opinions only sounds good with the upgrade cable, unlike ZS3 which is already decent with stock cables.


----------



## Redcarmoose

coil said:


> Meh? Sorry, don`t understand You. Deeper fit will provide better earphone shell fit into outer ear-cavity. Or do You have very large ears and long ear-canals? Then I understand what is Your issue with fit and why You extend nozzle length with spacers and tips.




Well it would normally allow you or anyone else to get the IEM closer to your ear with a deeper fit. What you seem to be failing to understand on all accounts here is one simple fact.

Making the nozzle longer gets both....

1) Deeper fit which holds IEM in place better. 
2) The longer nozzle because tip is at the end, thus extending nozzle distance also gets IEM away from ear. Many want the IEM to be close to ear for various reasons, though for me the IEMs just feel better when held just slightly away from touching my outer ear.

Also remember I feel I'm getting a reduction is bass response also which I seem to like with the ATE. Less bass seems to enhance the smooth midrange. Though I could be wrong. I feel the nozzle length can reduce bass if longer.

I actually listen to headphones and other IEMs which have more bass than the ATE, so it could be that contrast along with the placebo factor which happens because of ideas about sound presumptions basicly due to modification changes. 

Thus if you think something is true then you perceive it to be. Or are more prone to thinking you know the sound signature outcome of changes, there for actually hear it as true.


----------



## hansv (Mar 29, 2020)

.


----------



## Ruben123

So the KZ starline tips arrived - certainly a no-go _for me_. The bass which is on the edge for me, gets boosted even more to an overpowering response. Bloated, so you will. A pity for the $0.50 lol
 Probably fine for some but not for me.


----------



## dilidani

Spinfits for 50 cents?


----------



## Ruben123

Yeah was a short deal, caught it just before the deal was over


----------



## fonkepala

ruben123 said:


> Yeah was a short deal, caught it just before the deal was over




Where from?


----------



## Ruben123

Just Ali, search for kz tips


----------



## gemmoglock

ruben123 said:


> Just Ali, search for kz tips




I'm ordering the star tips that (I think?!) come standard with the ZST for my ZS3 to tune the bass down a little. Hope it works!


----------



## mebaali

ruben123 said:


> Just Ali, search for kz tips


 

 Are you sure it is indeed SpinFit (usually sold for 4+ US$) tips and not KZ Whirlwind Tips or KZ StarLine Tips (available for less than a dollar, most times)?


----------



## Ruben123

mebaali said:


> Are you sure it is indeed SpinFit (usually sold for 4+ US$) tips and not KZ Whirlwind Tips or KZ StarLine Tips (available for less than a dollar, most times)?




Lol indeed your right, I meant those new KZ tips. Star line tips probably


----------



## CoiL

> ' Well it would normally allow you or anyone else to get the IEM closer to your ear with a deeper fit.
> 1) Deeper fit which holds IEM in place better.
> 2) The longer nozzle because tip is at the end, thus extending nozzle distance also gets IEM away from ear. Many want the IEM to be close to ear for various reasons, though for me the IEMs just feel better when held just slightly away from touching my outer ear.


 
 1) How can You get it deeper because of longer nozzle if You use same size tips as usually one person uses? I use smallest tips and if I use spacers with same tips - sorry, but no way I can get it deeper! Tip size itself will limit the depth of fit. Only case using spacers and making "nozzle" longer is when person has longer ear-canals than average/most ppl have. Then it can extend deeper without housing causing pressure on outer ear-cave. Well, I`m not one of those latter and if anything, I would rather make ATR nozzle shorter because even with extra small tips, it just can`t physically go deeper and housings are slightly away from outer ear-cave. 
  
 2) Increasing driver distance could provide better bass (imho not in case of ATR) but from all the experience I have got from modding many IEM`s, mostly it actually increases bass(boomyness).
  
 in the end... it`s all subjective. 
  
 Now I understand what You were saying and suggesting to try for some ppl.


----------



## maxwelled

trumpethead said:


> I am absolutely in Love with ATR especially for the price and sound quality, ZST Is growing on me with more play time. Planning on getting the upgraded cable to see if that makes it clearer, more detailed, and more balanced...never had that pressure issue with any other KZ except ZS3 and I really like the sound so I live with it. Wish I had wires without the ear guides for a better fit. Don't know if that would help with the pressurized feeling though...In any case gotta love KZ got value for dollar




This is exactly how I felt. I loved thevery ATR right off the bat, then the ZST grew on me. The ZS3 gives me that pressurized feeling, I've posted about this quite some posts back when they barely released the new updated version that fixed the QC problems on them. I ended up using foam tips to minimize the feeling but to the negative effect of losing some of the clarity and response.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> So the KZ starline tips arrived - certainly a no-go _for me_. *The bass which is on the edge for me, gets boosted even more to an overpowering response. Bloated, so you will.* A pity for the $0.50 lol
> Probably fine for some but not for me.


 
 Seriously? I absolutely disagree on KZ "Starline" making ATR more bassy! Just not possible. Some few here have also tried them and they also got ATR more balanced and coherent sounding.
 Or are You talking about some other IEM + "starline" tips? 
 Are Your "starline" tips looking like that?:


----------



## B9Scrambler

@CoiL  Different ears, different hears. I prefer the stock large tips over the Starline tips on them for whatever reason. The Starline tips are amazing on the EDR2 however. If you haven't tried that yet, give it a whirl.


----------



## fonkepala

b9scrambler said:


> @CoiL  Different ears, different hears. I prefer the stock large tips over the Starline tips on them for whatever reason. The Starline tips are amazing on the EDR2 however. If you haven't tried that yet, give it a whirl.


 
  
 Are you still loving your EDR2, @B9Scrambler? Thinking about getting them on 11.11


----------



## B9Scrambler

fonkepala said:


> Are you still loving your EDR2, @B9Scrambler? Thinking about getting them on 11.11


 
  
 Oh yeah. They're easily still one of my favorites. I definitely recommend getting a pair. Only 4.31 USD on Gearbest right now which is ridiculous for the sound quality; http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316681.html


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> @CoiL  Different ears, different hears. I prefer the stock large tips over the Starline tips on them for whatever reason. The Starline tips are amazing on the EDR2 however. If you haven't tried that yet, give it a whirl.


 
 Yeah, true. Different ppl, different ears. Just that I`ve not yet met such totally opposite impressions as Ruben123.
 Weird. Well, anyway another point made that audio is very subjective and depends on many many factors.
  
 I can`t try EDR2 with starline tips anymore because I gifted my modded EDR2 away.
  
 Btw, I just bought 2x ATR and 1 2nd gen ATE again, for modding ;P 3x great sounding DD IEM for 15$? - no-brainer deal.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Yeah, true. Different ppl, different ears. Just that I`ve not yet met such totally opposite impressions as Ruben123.
> Weird. Well, anyway another point made that* audio is very subjective and depends on many many factors.*
> 
> I can`t try EDR2 with starline tips anymore because I gifted my modded EDR2 away.
> ...


 
  
 Yup.That can't be stressed enough.
  
 I hope whomever was lucky enough to receive that modded beauty is enjoying it! 
  
 Hopefully you post some pics at some point of all your newest ATR/ATE mods. Always a pleasure seeing what you come up with.


----------



## Keller1

went for the ZS3 and ED12, I already have a ZST. Considering going for an ATR, an EDR2 and an ED9 aswell.

 Can i use any of the cables form the ZS3/ED12/ZST interchangably?


----------



## Ruben123

I abed them and yes it seems the star line tips give more bass and less treble. I think the boost is more in mid bass while the original tips might give a bit more sub bass. Differences are small though noticeable. Not surprising since the tips look very much alike regarding diameter etc. Real wide bore tips are much, much better though


----------



## Redcarmoose

coil said:


> 1) How can You get it deeper because of longer nozzle if You use same size tips as usually one person uses? I use smallest tips and if I use spacers with same tips - sorry, but no way I can get it deeper! Tip size itself will limit the depth of fit. Only case using spacers and making "nozzle" longer is when person has longer ear-canals than average/most ppl have. Then it can extend deeper without housing causing pressure on outer ear-cave. Well, I`m not one of those latter and if anything, I would rather make ATR nozzle shorter because even with extra small tips, it just can`t physically go deeper and housings are slightly away from outer ear-cave.
> 
> 2) Increasing driver distance could provide better bass (imho not in case of ATR) but from all the experience I have got from modding many IEM`s, mostly it actually increases bass(boomyness).
> 
> ...




Some people just don'i like the fit of the ATE. Though for me it's way more comfortable not touching the outside of the ear. For what ever reason the tip going deeper tends to hold everything in place. When I say deeper it's only slightly farther in. Tips can sit in a couple areas of your ear canal due to shape and insertion pressure. For me they are best when as far in as possible. 

Some people are actually limited to what IEMs they can use as the nozzles are just not long enough on some IEM models. Not the ATE of course. Getting spacers will also allow these short nozzle IEMs to effectively have a longer nozzle if your getting the tip farther out.

It's all about folks getting a fit. And your right, the sound is changed by nozzle size both in diameter and length, how I'm not all that sure, but I can live with it?


----------



## zabunny94

unlike shure's or westone iem, KZ tips(or wide nozzle/bore tips in general) isn't really supposed(or designed) to go all the way inside your ears. that's kinda dangerous with increased risk of hearing loss and tips stuck into your ear... you should stop doing that for your own safety dude... better use tri-flange if you really want deeper fit and they're like only $1 on 11/11 sale


----------



## Byfrost

Hi all
  
 I've just recently purchased the ZS3 and ED12, but somehow the sound signature for both of these sounds "muffled". The bass sounds "boomsy" with no control and the highs are way too muffled as well.
  
 I've been listening to my Ultimate Ears TripleFi10 for 5 years, and I'm looking for a KZ IEMs with similar sound signature.
  
 I'm looking for bright sounding highs, controlled mids and controlled bass sound signature (similar to my current TF10 which i personally feel). I listen to the Metal genre mostly (Dark Tranquility, Metallica, Alter Bridge, Arch Enemy etc) hence I would love my highs (cymbals) to sparkle, bass drums to sound with control.
  
 I'm currently looking at KZ ZST hybrids, I was hoping the BA would give me a brighter highs with the dynamic drivers giving me the bass.
  
 How does the KZ ATE sound?
  
 Would love some opinions on which KZ IEMs that can be recommended based on the sound signature I was looking for. Much appreciated!


----------



## zabunny94

[@]Byfrost[@/] i haven't listened to UE triple fi. but if you're looking for bright sounding high, there's isnt many option in KZ iems. KZ ed9 and Ed3 would be your best bet

also, kz ate definitely is not something you're looking for


----------



## Byfrost

zabunny94 said:


> Byfrost[@/] i haven't listened to UE triple fi. but if you're looking for bright sounding high, there's isnt many option in KZ iems. KZ ed9 and Ed3 would be your best bet<br /> <br /> also, kz ate definitely is not something you're looking for


 
  
 Oh no...
  
 My current ED12 and ZS3 sounds good on pop music, Katy Perry, Maroon 5, Muse sounds really good..  But Metal is a no no.. Metallica and Amon Amarth sounds so muffled, and I can barely hear the bass drums and cymbals properly. Same goes to rock bands like Alter Bridge..


----------



## B9Scrambler

byfrost I haven't listened to the UE either, but for bright KZs zabunny94 was on the right track. Could also toss the EDR2 on the list, though I consider them neutral-ish with a treble tilt.


----------



## jmwreck

byfrost said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've just recently purchased the ZS3 and ED12, but somehow the sound signature for both of these sounds "muffled". The bass sounds "boomsy" with no control and the highs are way too muffled as well.
> 
> ...


 
 I guess we both have the same preference. I have ED12 and ZST and I really thought that both units were defective. Muffled bass and treble, very dull sounding and breathless, instrumentation is quite congested, then I bought Tennmak Pro thinking that maybe my players were at fault too. But when I tested the Pro, both my phone and DAP sounded great.
  
 Pro's highs are defined and bass is controlled, I can compare it to ED9 with much better bass punch, treble on both are quite the same.


----------



## gemmoglock

keller1 said:


> went for the ZS3 and ED12, I already have a ZST. Considering going for an ATR, an EDR2 and an ED9 aswell.
> 
> Can i use any of the cables form the ZS3/ED12/ZST interchangably?


 
  
 Nope for some reason the silver cable connectors seem to be slightly different in spec. A importer I chatted with noted he could not switch the same cable for all 3 different ones.
  
  


byfrost said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've just recently purchased the ZS3 and ED12, but somehow the sound signature for both of these sounds "muffled". The bass sounds "boomsy" with no control and the highs are way too muffled as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your TripleFi10 is setting a very high bar here. If I had the TripleFi I wouldn't even consider getting anything else. But since you asked, checked out my earlier post where I compared some of them. Get the ATR rather than the ATE, less boomy bass and slightly more smooth and extended treble. But I find the ZS3 which I'm using to be a more lively sound (at the expense of boomier bass) than the ATR so you may or may not like it. But as others have said the ATR is wonderful for a analog sound for long listening. It's cheaper than the others so you should grab it. ATR is a 2016 iteration of the ATE.
  
 ZST on stock cables doesn't sound as good as the ZS3 on stock cable, refer to my earlier post. However I have read and confirmed with my importer than the silver cables seem to make the ZST sound a lot better (vs a smaller improvement for upgrading the ZS3 cables). Haven't had the cash to try another pair. If you do get the ZST do get the silver cable and PM me how you find the sound! I'm guessing that the coloured version would have hopefully some tweaks to the original carbon-look ZST since it was released later, so if you don't mind the colour you should try that one.
  
 Keep me and the others posted


----------



## Byfrost

gemmoglock said:


> Nope for some reason the silver cable connectors seem to be slightly different in spec. A importer I chatted with noted he could not switch the same cable for all 3 different ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yeah, I understand. Considering the TripleFi10 has ended production ages ago, and also I'm on my last pair (I purchased 2 pairs from Amazon Black Friday on 2011), My first TF10 died in 2015 when the pin to the cable broke inside.
  
 I'm searching for a worthy successor in the event my current TF10 dies. If I'm able to find a successor early, I will just retire my TF10 to a home use only IEM and baby it.
  
 Was hoping that some cheap IEMs like KZ would be able to offer a similar sound signature.


----------



## gemmoglock

byfrost said:


> Yeah, I understand. Considering the TripleFi10 has ended production ages ago, and also I'm on my last pair (I purchased 2 pairs from Amazon Black Friday on 2011), My first TF10 died in 2015 when the pin to the cable broke inside.
> 
> I'm searching for a worthy successor in the event my current TF10 dies. If I'm able to find a successor early, I will just retire my TF10 to a home use only IEM and baby it.
> 
> Was hoping that some cheap IEMs like KZ would be able to offer a similar sound signature.


 
  
 Well you can still try them out, just have to adjust your expectations 
  
 By the way I tried the ATH-E40s, pretty decent sound as they were based on the HiRes top-end CKR10 technology. Not exactly the signature you wanted (more balanced) but I found them a very faithful reproduction of audio tracks across genres (I listen more to Pop/EDM/Jazz). Didn't get a bias effect where earphones didn't sound right for some tracks, which I had a bit of issue with my UE200/500, Aurvanas and to a certain extent my KZ ZS3.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Well, thanks to this thread I have a pair of ATR's and ZS3's on the way, and odds are I'll look into picking up a pair of the ED12's and ZST's on Friday as well.  Looking forward to trying out my first few sets of IEM's.


----------



## trumpethead

maxwelled said:


> This is exactly how I felt. I loved thevery ATR right off the bat, then the ZST grew on me. The ZS3 gives me that pressurized feeling, I've posted about this quite some posts back when they barely released the new updated version that fixed the QC problems on them. I ended up using foam tips to minimize the feeling but to the negative effect of losing some of the clarity and response.



If I do a shallow fit with the silicone tips the pressurized feeling is less but I still have to keep fiddling with it to get the best deal and release the pressure..strange that it's only one ear but I really like the sound. Gonna try some smaller tips, something's gotta work


----------



## djmakemynight

trumpethead said:


> If I do a shallow fit with the silicone tips the pressurized feeling is less but I still have to keep fiddling with it to get the best deal and release the pressure..strange that it's only one ear but I really like the sound. Gonna try some smaller tips, something's gotta work




I got the same issue and one of the helpful souls here recommended the JVC Spiraldots tips which really helped.

I no longer have that pressure build up in the left ear anymore but I did lost some isolation which might be due to me using the Med sized tips instead of Large size.


----------



## newbielive

This is just some advice from a newbie but I just got the Fiio X3 II DAP to drive my collection of IEMs and it does not sound any better than my One Plus 3 running Poweramp using DAC that comes with all Snapdragon 820 chips. Testing on KZ-ATE and really underwhelmed


----------



## Ruben123

byfrost said:


> Yeah, I understand. Considering the TripleFi10 has ended production ages ago, and also I'm on my last pair (I purchased 2 pairs from Amazon Black Friday on 2011), My first TF10 died in 2015 when the pin to the cable broke inside.
> 
> I'm searching for a worthy successor in the event my current TF10 dies. If I'm able to find a successor early, I will just retire my TF10 to a home use only IEM and baby it.
> 
> Was hoping that some cheap IEMs like KZ would be able to offer a similar sound signature.




You could try the following: monoprice 8320, vivo xe800 and havi b3 pro 1.


----------



## Byfrost

ruben123 said:


> You could try the following: monoprice 8320, vivo xe800 and havi b3 pro 1.


 

 Thanks for the recommendation. Will keep a lookout.
  
 In the mean time I'm trying to keep my budget low for IEMs that I have no access to for trying.
  
 Hence I've chosen KZ as they're a low cost investments for me. If I don't like it, I could probably pass them on to a friend or keep as a spare.
  
 I'm not prepared to spend more than $50 and when the IEM comes I don't like the sound signature. Boo.


----------



## annapan2009

KZ it is very good，taobao is suitable to chinese 
 This shop is suitable for overseas people to buy
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/KZ/1396671_506367471.html


----------



## Ruben123

byfrost said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Will keep a lookout.
> 
> In the mean time I'm trying to keep my budget low for IEMs that I have no access to for trying.
> 
> ...


 

 The Monoprice costs $9 shipped in the USTrump (sorry couldnt resist) and the Vivo is around $16, but at 11/11 could  be had cheaper ($12,50 I think I saw them). Both are -subjectively- better than any KZ Ive tried, though they also have a totally different sound than any KZ: neutral/slightly bright with very tight bass response. ATR is one of the nicest KZs but has a different sound too, much darker.


----------



## Ruben123

annapan2009 said:


> KZ it is very good，taobao is suitable to chinese
> This shop is suitable for overseas people to buy
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/KZ/1396671_506367471.html


 

 Ive seen most of those much cheaper elsewhere on Ali.


----------



## GeMo125

how do the atr and the zs3 compare? which one do you guys prefer? the atr is better than the ate right?


----------



## Djsenjaya

Any cable upgrade recommendation? I'm searching for cable that worth to buy in terms of price and performance. Quality also count.


----------



## annapan2009

your Claim
 price，quality and so on。


----------



## annapan2009

i think zs3 is more than ate，thanks


----------



## Ruben123

gemo125 said:


> how do the atr and the zs3 compare? which one do you guys prefer? the atr is better than the ate right?


 

 ZS3 has boosted bass, flat warm mids and rolled off but detailed highs and a wide sound stage while the ATR also has a boosted bass -more midbass-, same mids I think and more treble which gives it a more energetic sound. Sound stage is less than ZS3. But as I said before they sound *very much alike*. Not the same, sure not, but sound shouldnt be much of a problem when deciding between the two - fit though, probably is.


----------



## GeMo125

Thanks. And is the atr easy to drive? Because i don't have an amp and play out of laptop/tablet


----------



## Ruben123

gemo125 said:


> Thanks. And is the atr easy to drive? Because i don't have an amp and play out of laptop/tablet


 

 On my laptop volume 12-20/100 is plenty.


----------



## gemmoglock

gemo125 said:


> Thanks. And is the atr easy to drive? Because i don't have an amp and play out of laptop/tablet


 
  
  
 For earphones the ATR is considered easy to drive. It is not the most sensitive like the Aurvanas I used, but it is slightly easier than average. Depending on your phone/laptop/tablet source you should not need to max out the volume. My softer Xiaomi needs around 33%-65%, for my Fiio M3 and laptop it is kept around 33% at the maximum.


----------



## sfogar

I have ZS3 with silver cable and ATE-S.
  
 I like better ATE-S.
  
 I have a pair of ATR coming and starline tips + comply coming too, we'll see...


----------



## vegetaleb

sfogar said:


> I have ZS3 with silver cable and ATE-S.
> 
> I like better ATE-S.
> 
> I have a pair of ATR coming and starline tips + comply coming too, we'll see...


 
  
 About that, ZS3 bass is heavier than ATE-S?
 what I didn't like in ATE-S is the muddy heavy bass


----------



## Sereff

Guys I have to buy an earbud immediately but i can't decide whether to buy kz zst or zs1
 I generally listen edm pop r&b and some classic and soft.
  
 Bass is important for me but also i want to hear the instruments while listening some symphony.
 My previous earbuds are xiaomi piston 2, piston hybrid sennheiser cx-300 etc.
 Also i noticed that zs1 has 15hz-29khz in specs and zst has 20hz-20khz will it make too much difference or ?
 They are currently $19.99 for zst and $15.99 for zs1 both has mic maybe tomorrow there will be some discount.
  
 Will be looking forward for replies Thanks.


----------



## Shawn71

byfrost said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Will keep a lookout.
> 
> In the mean time I'm trying to keep my budget low for IEMs that I have no access to for trying.
> 
> ...




Well, Get ED9 and you wont be disappointed,2 diff sound,more than average soundstage,excellent instrument presentation,v.good retreival of nuances all under $8-$10 (11:11 sale)......the silicon tips too are of v.good quality like those stocked with premium monitors. IDK who designed and tuned this baby,but that person is a kick-arse special.
Hes a millionaire by now IF he wldve been on the "crowd funding" market place.(oh, not sure if already he is,,,in china  )

Also ATE and ATR are on 11:11 sale for under $5-$8 each, @ ali and gearbest. Oh well, ZS3? Hope you did your groundwork on ATE how its regarded and loved here,since its launch and same impressions for ATR and ZS3 lately.

So for under $20 you can get 3 KZ gems! And you might keep them as well than gifting someone?


----------



## sfogar

vegetaleb said:


> About that, ZS3 bass is heavier than ATE-S?
> what I didn't like in ATE-S is the muddy heavy bass


 
  
 Yes, the bass in ZS3 is heavier and I can say slower...
  
 I like better the ATE-S
  
 But I also think it's a matter of how the in-ear adapts to your ear canal.


----------



## Byfrost

shawn71 said:


> Well, Get ED9 and you wont be disappointed,2 diff sound,more than average soundstage,excellent instrument presentation,v.good retreival of nuances all under $8-$10 (11:11 sale)......the silicon tips too are of v.good quality like those stocked with premium monitors. IDK who designed and tuned this baby,but that person is a kick-arse special.
> Hes a millionaire by now IF he wldve been on the "crowd funding" market place.(oh, not sure if already he is,,,in china  )
> 
> Also ATE and ATR are on 11:11 sale for under $5-$8 each, @ ali and gearbest. Oh well, ZS3? Hope you did your groundwork on ATE how its regarded and loved here,since its launch and same impressions for ATR and ZS3 lately.
> ...


 
  
 Yup, those are in my watch lists.
  
 Got to admit the KZ ZST is really tempting, due to it being hybrid. I've never owned any hybrid IEMs before. Might just grab one of it.


----------



## annapan2009

colorfu zst
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZST-Colorful-In-Ear-Earphone-1DD-1BA-Hybrid-Drive-HiFi-Headset-Running-Sport-Earphones-Monito/1396671_327652103


----------



## Shawn71

byfrost said:


> Yup, those are in my watch lists.
> 
> Got to admit the KZ ZST is really tempting, due to it being hybrid. I've never owned any hybrid IEMs before. Might just grab one of it.




I read few were not that happy to other kz models they already own,sound-wise in comparison......check "urbanfun" @ali,its also a dual hybrid and its sound impressed almost its every owners! Bit pricier to zst but the build is better so are the accessories.


----------



## Sereff

shawn71 said:


> I read few were not that happy to other kz models they already own,sound-wise in comparison......check "urbanfun" @ali,its also a dual hybrid and its sound impressed almost its every owners! Bit pricier to zst but the build is better so are the accessories.


 
 what about zst vs zs1


----------



## akhil17kr

I have KZ ATE , i like it's sound quality . pretty good and detailed but bass and loudness is a bit low for my liking. Can anyone please suggest some another KZ ATE alternative KZ earphones which has exactly good crispt sound clarity and quality like ATE but with more enhanced bass and little more loudness ? and it should not be behind the ear like ATE because it's uncomfortable for me. So looking for normal one with comfortable wear,
  
 Wanted to buy one on now 11.11 SALE.
  
 Please suggest only from your experience only.
  
 which one should i get ?
 KZ ED4
 KZ ED10
 KZ HDS1
 KZ Z1
 KZ GR
 KZ ED3c/ED3
 KZ ED7 ?


----------



## zabunny94

akhil17kr

i would say that zs1/zs2 will suit your preference for bigger quantity bass, but sadly they're over ear model like ate

i don't really get what you mean by saying loudness, since all you had to do is just turn the volume up, and ate is sensitive enough to be driven with low power output cellphones like sony with ease. i assume you just wanna hear the ear splitting sensation of cymbals, which ate softened up? in that case, you'd better off with philips she3590 or rock zircon


----------



## akhil17kr

zabunny94 said:


> @akhil17kr
> 
> i would say that zs1/zs2 will suit your preference for bigger quantity bass, but sadly they're over ear model like ate
> 
> i don't really get what you mean by saying loudness, since all you had to do is just turn the volume up, and ate is sensitive enough to be driven with low power output cellphones like sony with ease. i assume you just wanna hear the ear splitting sensation of cymbals, which ate softened up? in that case, you'd better off with philips she3590 or rock zircon


 
 More loudness means more volume . yes i can increase it but still some devices can't provide that same sound . and please no zs1 and zs2 amd only KZ earphones. need little cheaper one and not over the ear.


----------



## fonkepala

shawn71 said:


> I read few were not that happy to other kz models they already own,sound-wise in comparison......check "urbanfun" @ali,its also a dual hybrid and its sound impressed almost its every owners! Bit pricier to zst but the build is better so are the accessories.


 
  
 Urbanfun has quite a few models on Ali..which one exactly?


----------



## B9Scrambler

akhil17kr said:


> More loudness means more volume . yes i can increase it but still some devices can't provide that same sound . and please no zs1 and zs2 amd only KZ earphones. need little cheaper one and not over the ear.




ED3c should do the trick. Shares some audio qualities with the ATE and ZS series but uses a very light, traditionally barrel shaped housing.


----------



## To.M

sereff said:


> Guys I have to buy an earbud immediately but i can't decide whether to buy kz zst or zs1
> I generally listen edm pop r&b and some classic and soft.
> 
> Bass is important for me but also i want to hear the instruments while listening some symphony.
> ...





akhil17kr said:


> which one should i get ?
> KZ ED4
> KZ ED10
> KZ HDS1
> ...




On 11.11 you can get ZST for less than 10usd, which makes them an attractive bargain, I have ATE but ZST is a league above them

http://s.aliexpress.com/y6FZ7fiE


----------



## akhil17kr

to.m said:


> On 11.11 you can get ZST for less than 10usd, which makes them an attractive bargain, I have ATE but ZST is a league above them
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/y6FZ7fiE


 
 problem is budget is half of $10 i.e. $5-$6   , so try to understand. don't need better than ATE , just as equal as ATE but with more enhanced bass and not over the ear and should be comfortable to wear.


----------



## vegetaleb

So ZST and ZS3 are both high in bass?
 But ZST is muddier?
 What about ED12?


----------



## Mellowship

vegetaleb said:


> So ZST and ZS3 are both high in bass?
> But ZST is muddier?
> What about ED12?




ED12 is one of the most crappy iems I've already had. Build quality and soundwise.


----------



## trumpethead

djmakemynight said:


> I got the same issue and one of the helpful souls here recommended the JVC Spiraldots tips which really helped.
> 
> I no longer have that pressure build up in the left ear anymore but I did lost some isolation which might be due to me using the Med sized tips instead of Large size.



Thanks for the Tip, pun intended. I have some ML Spirals that I will try tonight, hopefully they Wil help..Thanks again.


----------



## Shawn71

fonkepala said:


> Urbanfun has quite a few models on Ali..which one exactly?




its the dual hybrid (like zst) ,green or black ones.....


----------



## chaiyuta

trumpethead said:


> Thanks for the Tip, pun intended. I have some ML Spirals that I will try tonight, hopefully they Wil help..Thanks again.


 
 JVC spiral dot in S, M and L size are one of the most soft silicone tips I ever tried. But in their MS and ML size, they use different material. You can feel MS and ML is not as soft as S, M and L size version. Another brand I heard that his eartips are softer than JVC sprial dot is "Ortofon".


----------



## Shawn71

sereff said:


> what about zst vs zs1




Cant't comment 'coz I never tried them.......but they might worth trying and nothing wrong gettin them under $15-$20 imo, due to the fact,that they are 2 diff configurations,a dual dynamic and dual hybrids.......


----------



## dokkj

So with the 11.11 sale hitting aliexpress, what are the go-tos? One side of my ED9 isn't working, and I don't use the HDS1 anymore because it doesn't have a mic lol.
  
 ATE, ATE-S, ED12, ZS3, EDR2. Depending on how much it is tomorrow, I might just get all 5. But if not, what would you guys narrow it down to? Or add?
  
 edit - well that's something, I thought the prices were about $5-10, but it looks like they're currently $20+. I guess I'll have to wait until they really update them.


----------



## Djsenjaya

annapan2009 said:


> 11.11 it is very cheapest
> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/1396671




Advertising detected. Considering a bad English.


----------



## gemmoglock

gemmoglock said:


> Hi I have tried the ZS3, ZST, ED12, ATE and ATR. Not very big soundstage differences, mainly sound.
> 
> Do note ATE is the older predecessor of ATR. I find ATR http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html  (use this link to order!) noticeably better as it is still the same price, but the bass is less bloated and muddy. Others have claimed treble extension is better but for me I just felt that it is smoother (which already is a benefit also). Sound signature is not too energetic, great to listen for extended periods.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Update: I have just gotten silver cables for the ZS3. For those who don't believe in burn in here are my first impressions: cleaner and colder sound, for the ZS3 the reduction in bass is very marginal.


----------



## gemmoglock

vegetaleb said:


> So ZST and ZS3 are both high in bass?
> But ZST is muddier?
> What about ED12?


 
 Go check my previous post.
  
 ZST and ZS3 are bassy yes.
  
 ZST I haven't received it yet but on stock cables the bass is less controlled. I heard but haven't tested others' claims that ZST becomes more controlled overall than ZS3 after changing to silver cables.
  
 Note that you're probably spending more on the ZST as silver cables are almost compulsory. On my ZS3 the improvement is there but small.


----------



## chaiyuta

vegetaleb said:


> So ZST and ZS3 are both high in bass?
> But ZST is muddier?
> What about ED12?


 
 I've never tried ZST with a stock cable. However paring with my upgraded copper silver-plated cable. ZST has a bit muddy and very far from "muddy" once comparing with KZ HDSE, the bluetooth earphone.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Subbed.
  
 I've been wanting to try some more chinese IEMs when I came across KZ.  And today being the sale, I decided to pick up some more.
  
 Can anyone order anything besides the ATE and ATR?  They are both $5-6, not the advertised 4.  Maybe it's too early, I dunno.
  
 I ended up taking my money and going to Gearbest instead.  I already have an ATR on the way, so I picked up a ZS3 and HD9 for $7.59(so cheap compared to other places?!) and $8.59 respectively.  Paired with a shop-and-earn website which I've been using for 7 or so odd years which basically gives me 25 cents per dollar at Gearbest and I think it's a super solid deal for me.
  
 $21 for ZS3, HD9, and Piston Colorful + Piston Youth.  ATR isn't discounted, but it's only $4.88 on GB which is cheaper than the $5 on ali.
  
 Currently in my arsenal of IEMs are the Piston 3/Colorful/Basic and Monk+.


----------



## Byfrost

Quick Question
  
 Does anyone know if Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10 cables work with these?
  
 I have a couple of spare FiiO RC-UE2 for my TF10, was wondering if it fits into KZ ZST, ED12, ZS3 (models with 2 pin replaceable cables.)


----------



## Euljiro

I while back I posted saying how I had fit issues with the ZS3s and how I liked the sound of the ZSTs. after reading different recommendations and opinions I ordered 6 pairs of cloned comply tips from Aliexpress. Paid $6 for 6 pairs, T500, medium and large ones.
  
 Happy to report, these tips are excellent. Feels great, fits perfectly to the IEMs and my ears. The vacuum effect I used to get from the ZS3s are now gone, great seals, and managed to get them deeper into the ear canals. I still don't think they are the most comfortable IEMs, at least to my ears, But fits better and much more comfortable than before. Now with that improved seal, the sounds of the ZS3 got soooo much better. I am hearing similar to what others have reported. More energy, V-shape, fun, better bass. Now I can clearly hear the difference between ATEs and ZS3s, the ATE is just more laid back and comfortable to listen for a long period. Before that I hated the ZS3s, the bass was rubbish, muddy, and utterly uncomfortable.
  
 The ZSTs on the other hand weren't so lucky. With these tips, the seal improved, with that the bass, so much more bass, but not the nice kind. lose, just not nice, the treble got better though, smoother. I like the ZS3s much better now compared to ZSTs. 
  
 I gotta say something about the size, if anyone is interested in giving these tips a try. I feel that large tips that come with KZ IEMs are about medium of these clone Complys. I use medium tips on the ZSTs, but large on the ZS3s.
  
 Now, I cannot wait for the ATRs to arrive.


----------



## dilidani

Can you give link for these tips please?


----------



## Euljiro

dilidani said:


> Can you give link for these tips please?


 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12-pcs-noise-isolation-foam-tips-Comply-T100-T200-T400-T500-Ear-Pads-for-all-in/32622683405.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.wp1Gq1
  
 They are on sale now ($6 instead of $10, shipped). But I also paid $6 2 or 3 weeks ago.
  
 Don't forget to write in the message the model, size, and colors when you place the order.


----------



## vegetaleb

Thanks guys!
 I think I will get the ZS3, hoping it will give me an updated SQ compared to ATE-S that were bass hurting, though I think it was because it's muddy rather than very bassy, which it looks like the case of the ZST from what yu are saying.
 Can I ask Easy Earphone to replace the stock cable with the updated cable in the box so I won't pay an extra 7$?


----------



## Euljiro

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks guys!
> I think I will get the ZS3, hoping it will give me an updated SQ compared to ATE-S that were bass hurting, though I think it was because it's muddy rather than very bassy, which it looks like the case of the ZST from what yu are saying.
> Can I ask Easy Earphone to replace the stock cable with the updated cable in the box so I won't pay an extra 7$?


 
  
 Sounds like you would be better off with the ATRs. According to what I read people say here, all seem to point to ATRs being the the 'flattest' ones, if that is a thing with KZ IEMs. Anyhow, ZS3s are a great fun pair.


----------



## CoiL

To me, ATR bass portion is best out of KZ family and doesn`t have muddy/boomy/loose/enhanced bass. ATR signature is slightly V-shaped but in very pleasant way. It has natural, detailed and tight sounding bass (contrabass sound and timbre is great for example). That slightly V-shaped signature can turn into more balanced with tip-change (for me best result is with KZ "starline" tips).
  
 Btw, I measured ATR impedance and on both sides it is 15,8 Ohm without cable. Cable itself is quite bad - 1 Ohm impedance, which is rather high and probably does make overall sound slightly "softer" or even less detailed than it could be. Will test some other lower impedance cables soon.


----------



## vegetaleb

Tried the ear guides and memory wires and I have found the later to be perfect for sports, unfortunately the ATR don't have memory wires


----------



## Euljiro

coil said:


> To me, ATR bass portion is best out of KZ family and doesn`t have muddy/boomy/loose/enhanced bass. ATR signature is slightly V-shaped but in very pleasant way. It has natural, detailed and tight sounding bass (contrabass sound and timbre is great for example). That slightly V-shaped signature can turn into more balanced with tip-change (for me best result is with KZ "starline" tips).


 
 Cant wait to try them. Ordered the ATRs after reading your earlier posts. Should arrive any day now, ordered 2 weeks ago.
  
 You hear any differences OOTB and after some hours of use?


----------



## Euljiro

vegetaleb said:


> Tried the ear guides and memory wires and I have found the later to be perfect for sports, unfortunately the ATR don't have memory wires


 
 Ah for sports yes. i cant use any KZs at the gym.


----------



## vegetaleb

euljiro said:


> Ah for sports yes. i cant use any KZs at the gym.


 
  
 Did you try with memory wires?
 My ATE-S are the only iems that will never fall off even at high pressure heavy lifting


----------



## SomeTechNoob

This is exciting to hear.  It appears most people prefer the ATR over the ATE/ATES.  My ATR has been in the mail for 10 days now.  Hopefully they'll get here in another week or so.
  
 Have you tried the Xiaomi Piston 3?  If you have, how does it compare?


----------



## Euljiro

vegetaleb said:


> Did you try with memory wires?
> My ATE-S are the only iems that will never fall off even at high pressure heavy lifting




I tried the ATEs at the gym once but the weign hanging behind the ears made them super annoying when running. Lifting should be ok though. Havent tried the ZS3s with the memory wire since they didnt fit my properly until i got these new tips. But havnt been to the gym with them yet. Will try though.


----------



## To.M

For running,cheap good enough and comfy: QKZ W1 PRO, I've been using them for a few months, 3 times a week and they are still ok


----------



## vegetaleb

to.m said:


> For running,cheap good enough and comfy: QKZ W1 PRO, I've been using them for a few months, 3 times a week and they are still ok


 
  
 I was thinking of getting them months back but I finally took the ATES.
 Can you compare them to ZS3 for clarity,details and soundstage?


----------



## To.M

I have ZST not ZS3, QKZ are well designed for sport, stay in ears and you dont feel their presence while exercising,my ATE for running are not good, used them once and they failed the test for practical reasons. As for SQ, I can't complain, QKZ have rather neutral clear signature, if you want a detailed review then look here: 

http://www.head-fi.org/products/qkz-w1-pro-in-ear-sport-headphone/reviews/15903

ZST are better without any doubt, better separation, depth, bass.


----------



## vegetaleb

Thanks
 I think I will stick to ZS3, perhaps order the foam tips too like suggested for perfect fit, even though I don't like killer bass I also search for details and soundstage as psytrance music is all about that


----------



## To.M

ZST should have better highs.


----------



## gemmoglock

euljiro said:


> Cant wait to try them. Ordered the ATRs after reading your earlier posts. Should arrive any day now, ordered 2 weeks ago.
> 
> You hear any differences OOTB and after some hours of use?


 
  
 In general the KZ models I demoed and the one I have sound less grainy after some usage time. But I am in the moderate camp that acknowledges there are some burn in effects, but that you should just listen to it while burning in. My compromise is coming back from school and leaving my player to run some white/pink noise and lossless tracks. Important thing is not to push the volume too high when burning in! So if you like things loud then yes you may need a separate burning in  There is some inconsistency with certain KZ manuals saying only 5 minutes enough while some product pages with KZ official pictures and instructions state 20hrs of burnin. 
  


vegetaleb said:


> Thanks guys!
> I think I will get the ZS3, hoping it will give me an updated SQ compared to ATE-S that were bass hurting, though I think it was because it's muddy rather than very bassy, which it looks like the case of the ZST from what yu are saying.
> Can I ask Easy Earphone to replace the stock cable with the updated cable in the box so I won't pay an extra 7$?


 
 Hi just take note based on my demo ZS3 definitely is bassier than the ATR. It is ZS3>ATR>ATE-S. Don't want to put ZST as I only demoed stock cables, haven't received my own set and wildly different opinions about online based on burn in and cable upgrades. For me ZS3 is more lively than the laid back ATE/ATES/ATR hence I got it even though I don't like bass. As some others in the thread have done, I am ordering starline tips and wide bore tips for now and will try them when they arrive (Not getting foam as I don't like to keep shelling $ when my wax spoils them every so often). As of now, stock tips, silver cable and EQing down the bass just by a bit is pretty acceptable to me coming from my past UE200/500 and Aurvana In-Ear 3. See @CoiL's post for an amazing test of the silver cable. But doubt you can get the seller to change it, unless they don't mind opening the retail package. The stock cable is already boxed in, the seller just includes a separate ziploc bag with the silver-(COATED on copper) cable.


coil said:


> To me, ATR bass portion is best out of KZ family and doesn`t have muddy/boomy/loose/enhanced bass. ATR signature is slightly V-shaped but in very pleasant way. It has natural, detailed and tight sounding bass (contrabass sound and timbre is great for example). That slightly V-shaped signature can turn into more balanced with tip-change (for me best result is with KZ "starline" tips).
> 
> Btw, I measured ATR impedance and on both sides it is 15,8 Ohm without cable. Cable itself is quite bad - 1 Ohm impedance, which is rather high and probably does make overall sound slightly "softer" or even less detailed than it could be. Will test some other lower impedance cables soon.


 
 Wish I had time/materials/knowledge to do your mods! Now I know why the silver cable gives a boost (many people have argued that cables should not make a big difference). Please do more measurements for other things too  Really looking forward to try my ZST with the silver coated cables when they arrive. So the problem is the stock cable, will let others know about your findings!!


----------



## gemmoglock

euljiro said:


> I while back I posted saying how I had fit issues with the ZS3s and how I liked the sound of the ZSTs. after reading different recommendations and opinions I ordered 6 pairs of cloned comply tips from Aliexpress. Paid $6 for 6 pairs, T500, medium and large ones.
> 
> Happy to report, these tips are excellent. Feels great, fits perfectly to the IEMs and my ears. The vacuum effect I used to get from the ZS3s are now gone, great seals, and managed to get them deeper into the ear canals. I still don't think they are the most comfortable IEMs, at least to my ears, But fits better and much more comfortable than before. Now with that improved seal, the sounds of the ZS3 got soooo much better. I am hearing similar to what others have reported. More energy, V-shape, fun, better bass. Now I can clearly hear the difference between ATEs and ZS3s, the ATE is just more laid back and comfortable to listen for a long period. Before that I hated the ZS3s, the bass was rubbish, muddy, and utterly uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks to your post I'm considering whether to sell my ZSTs brand new or try them out. When I first saw your post I decided to order a pair of ZST in case but now.......


----------



## Rajey

Don't post often so unsure if links are allowed but ZS3's going for a steal here : http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## dokkj

Looks like I"m set on the ATR. Now I have to figure out between the ZST and ZS3. I don't think I'll grab the silver cable, the savings aren't that much and they cost just as much as the IEMs themselves. And besides, I was thinking about sleeving my own cables anyway.


----------



## chaiyuta

dokkj said:


> Looks like I"m set on the ATR. Now I have to figure out between the ZST and ZS3. I don't think I'll grab the silver cable, the savings aren't that much and they cost just as much as the IEMs themselves. And besides, I was thinking about *sleeving* my own cables anyway.


 
 Did you mean you will knitting or making your own DIY. cables? If yes, sound great. Cool!!


----------



## Euljiro

gemmoglock said:


> Thanks to your post I'm considering whether to sell my ZSTs brand new or try them out. When I first saw your post I decided to order a pair of ZST in case but now.......


 
 Oops, sorry mate. I feel responsible for this. When first posted my impression of the ZSTs I genuinely liked them, they fit the best and sounded pretty good, loved that tight bass. They were my daily pairs on my 3 hours a day subway commute for a couple of weeks. I don't know if it's the effect of burn-in or the tips, I got the TFZ Series 5 a while back and they replaced the ZSTs on my commute for about 2 weeks. Now that these Comply tips arrived, I listen to them again, and they sounded... different. Not all bad, bass got boomy but highs improved..
  
 Can you resist not giving them a go?
  
 I am the nosy type. I would go to a restaurant that everyone says its bad, just to confirm it. Sounds so quite stupid saying it like this, lol.
  
 I actually like the ZSTs better than TFZ Series 5 pre Harakiri mod, if that would bring comfort to you. the TFZ costs about $60.


----------



## thekenta

I'm a little bit lost with all the options, can you guys help me out?

 Listening to Hip Hop 90% of the time and I'm quite sensitive to sharp highs, so I'm looking for a warmer sounding IEM.
 After some research I narrowed it down to the following choices:
 ATR
 ZS3
 EDR2
 ZST

 Any idea which one suites my preference best? I'm also open to buy two pairs.


----------



## To.M

ZST or ZS3 or both


----------



## Euljiro

thekenta said:


> I'm a little bit lost with all the options, can you guys help me out?
> 
> 
> Listening to Hip Hop 90% of the time and I'm quite sensitive to sharp highs, so I'm looking for a warmer sounding IEM.
> ...




Reading recent posts on this thread. I would summarize that ART are closest to being balanced. Still v-shape. ZS3s are fairly new and people are liking them for being enegetic and fun to listen to. EDR2, what are they? ZSTs, people have split opinions about them.

I would choose according to the deals you can get. Between ZS3 and ATR. Gearbest is having this great deal on the zST now. Link is on a few posts earlier.


----------



## loomisjohnson

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks
> I think I will stick to ZS3, perhaps order the foam tips too like suggested for perfect fit, even though I don't like killer bass I also search for details and soundstage as psytrance music is all about that


 

 the zs3 are as tip-sensitive as any iem i've heard--with foams they're bass monsters, while with something like triple flanges they're almost neutral. i personally found the best balance with a smaller-than-typical size spinfit-type tip, which preserved details without losing the low end.


----------



## MRK1

As you very well know there are big discounts going on on Ali. The last time I bought one of these cheapo chi-fi products I was not disappointed, in fact I had just found my favourite audio device ever, the VE Monk. I see that these KZ iems are getting hyped like the VE Monks were. Which one should I buy considering I prefer detailed and clear sound? I really don't enjoy bass monsters that much but I like a punchy bass. My preference is vastly towards forward, clear, and detailed highs and mids. My most listened genre these days is uplifting trance (which does NOT benefit from bass unlike other forms of electronica).
  
 Thank you, and I'm going to lurk this thread a bit now.


----------



## kokoy

soundmagic es18 and piston v2

how does the zs3 compare to those two?

soundstage
bass mids
highd


----------



## mebaali

kokoy said:


> soundmagic es18 and piston v2
> 
> how does the zs3 compare to those two?
> 
> ...


 
 To my ears and gears,
  
 Soundstage width - ZS3 > Piston 2 > ES18
 Bass - Boomy bloated bass that eats up all the other frequencies = ES18, slightly overpowering of other frequencies but still acceptable bass = Piston 2, Much better controlled bass that doesn't bleed much onto other areas = ZS3
 Mids - ZS3 > Piston > ES18
 Highs - ZS3 = Piston > ES18
  
 #YMMV


----------



## gemmoglock

mrk1 said:


> As you very well know there are big discounts going on on Ali. The last time I bought one of these cheapo chi-fi products I was not disappointed, in fact I had just found my favourite audio device ever, the VE Monk. I see that these KZ iems are getting hyped like the VE Monks were. Which one should I buy considering I prefer detailed and clear sound? I really don't enjoy bass monsters that much but I like a punchy bass. My preference is vastly towards forward, clear, and detailed highs and mids. My most listened genre these days is uplifting trance (which does NOT benefit from bass unlike other forms of electronica).
> 
> Thank you, and I'm going to lurk this thread a bit now.


 
  
 Just in time to announce that I've finally compiled my post comparing KZ sets and expanded it into a full review!!
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs3-hifi-high-end-3-5mm-in-ear-earphone-headphones-earpiece-original-headset-bass-earbuds-with-microphone/reviews/17284


----------



## dilidani

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs3 are as tip-sensitive as any iem i've heard--with foams they're bass monsters, while with something like triple flanges they're almost neutral. i personally found the best balance with a smaller-than-typical size spinfit-type tip, which preserved details without losing the low end.


 
 T400 sized foamies for the ZS3?


----------



## zedlav61

jmwreck said:


> I guess we both have the same preference. I have ED12 and ZST and I really thought that both units were defective. Muffled bass and treble, very dull sounding and breathless, instrumentation is quite congested, then I bought Tennmak Pro thinking that maybe my players were at fault too. But when I tested the Pro, both my phone and DAP sounded great.
> 
> Pro's highs are defined and bass is controlled, I can compare it to ED9 with much better bass punch, treble on both are quite the same.


 
 Try your T-Pro with any HI PITCHED song...my T-Pro just messed up the ABBA voices, but with my ED9 (bought just hours ago), ABBA voices were soooooooo clean & sweet...


----------



## loomisjohnson

dilidani said:


> T400 sized foamies for the ZS3?


 

 for me there was too much bass with comply-type foamies, but your experience may very well be different--there's lots of variable that affect how you hear it. i'd experiment and see what works best ofr you.


----------



## GeMo125

would someone be able to compare the kz zs3 and ed9, rock zicron and joyroom e107?


----------



## gemmoglock

euljiro said:


> Oops, sorry mate. I feel responsible for this. When first posted my impression of the ZSTs I genuinely liked them, they fit the best and sounded pretty good, loved that tight bass. They were my daily pairs on my 3 hours a day subway commute for a couple of weeks. I don't know if it's the effect of burn-in or the tips, I got the TFZ Series 5 a while back and they replaced the ZSTs on my commute for about 2 weeks. Now that these Comply tips arrived, I listen to them again, and they sounded... different. Not all bad, bass got boomy but highs improved..
> 
> Can you resist not giving them a go?
> 
> ...


 
 No worries mate. "Can you resist not giving them a go?" uurrrrggh you done it I'm gonna open them out and try. Unlike most people here I can't bear keeping IEMs I don't use so I'll probably sell the pair that I like less after letting the ZST burn in. If anyone's from where I can sell them to you  Good thing I didn't discover the TFZs before my impulse buy haha! I noticed some KZ designs are eerily similar....


thekenta said:


> I'm a little bit lost with all the options, can you guys help me out?
> 
> Listening to Hip Hop 90% of the time and I'm quite sensitive to sharp highs, so I'm looking for a warmer sounding IEM.
> After some research I narrowed it down to the following choices:
> ...


 
 Welcome and looks like you won't leave this thread without spending hahaha. I haven't tried the EDR2 but I have for the others and done a review on the ZS3 (with more info on the sound signatures). For warm sound you are better off with the ATR and ZS3. Main difference is ZS3 is less laid back in sound presentation and more bass rumble (= warmer to some people?). While the highs on ATR/ZS3/ZST are not really sharp (for the ZS3 it was sparkly yet not sibilant), the best treble IMHO goes to ZST. Simple reason being it is a BA, sounded great even when I demoed with stock cables. But due to the high impedence of stock cables @CoiL mentioned the silver cables for the ZST are a must unless you want a boomy bass and clean treble confusing your ears. Take note BAs being BAs they are more smooth and clear rather than warm for the treble. Take note ZS3 is finnicky with fit.
  


loomisjohnson said:


> the zs3 are as tip-sensitive as any iem i've heard--with foams they're bass monsters, while with something like triple flanges they're almost neutral. i personally found the best balance with a smaller-than-typical size spinfit-type tip, which preserved details without losing the low end.


 
 I know right! Thankfully I don't use foams much (don't want more bass then I already hear) as I can't bear the constant expense of changing. Wax is a real burden. I'm gonna try KZ star tips and widebore ones when they arrive.


----------



## xtwargodtx

Ended up buying the KZ ZS3's on 11-11, hoping to compare these to the ZS1's, Puro sound labs IEM 500, and maybe the rock zircon. Sadly picking these up cuz my Vsoic VSD3S died :/


----------



## ilikeiem

Ended up buying the second pair of KZ ZST, super armature + dynamic unit. Wow...It's only $10.80 USD on 11.11


----------



## Lorspeaker

anyone awake?
  
 KZ-ZST...dual, hybrid drivers...is this a good buy at ALi for 17bucks??
  
 edit..huh 10bucks??? its showing 17 now


----------



## gemmoglock

kokoy said:


> soundmagic es18 and piston v2
> 
> how does the zs3 compare to those two?
> 
> ...


 


mebaali said:


> To my ears and gears,
> 
> Soundstage width - ZS3 > Piston 2 > ES18
> Bass - Boomy bloated bass that eats up all the other frequencies = ES18, slightly overpowering of other frequencies but still acceptable bass = Piston 2, Much better controlled bass that doesn't bleed much onto other areas = ZS3
> ...


 
  
 Hmm the ZS3 bass shouldn't be so boomy compared to your other IEMs. Hopefully it will sound better with different tips.
  
  
  


lorspeaker said:


> anyone awake?
> 
> KZ-ZST...dual, hybrid drivers...is this a good buy at ALi for 17bucks??
> 
> edit..huh 10bucks??? its showing 17 now


 
 If you are getting the ZST be sure to order the KZ silver upgrade cable. More details in my review of the ZS3.


----------



## mebaali

gemmoglock said:


> Hmm the ZS3 bass shouldn't be so boomy compared to your other IEMs. Hopefully it will sound better with different tips.


 
 Yep. That's what I mentioned in my post. 
  
 ZS3 has better controled bass than either of ES18 and Piston 2.


----------



## ayao

Ended up purchasing the ZST and XE800 on 11.11! Curious to see how the ZST compares to the ZS1, and how the $18AUD "100% Original Authentic" XE800 compares to my 2 year old XE800 xD
 EDIT: wrong thread. ATR also on the way from Gearbest!


----------



## Shawn71

ayao said:


> Ended up purchasing the ZST and XE800 on 11.11! Curious to see how the ZST compares to the ZS1, and how the $18AUD "100% Original Authentic" XE800 compares to my 2 year old XE800 xD
> EDIT: wrong thread. ATR also on the way from Gearbest!




When you open the packet and see if its a pivoting nozzle you're almost safe.....


----------



## fonkepala

shawn71 said:


> When you open the packet and see if its a pivoting nozzle you're almost safe.....




Clones don't have pivoting nozzles right?


----------



## Euljiro

Looks like I need to get that white cable and try it on with my ZSTs and ZS3s.
  
 Has anyone tried these new ZSTs? The clear and colorful ones. Some seller on Ali write ZST Pro, so I am wondering what's the 'pro' designate? Improvement in sound? or Just the aesthetics? The colors are nice IMO.


----------



## To.M

It is only a colourful variant, any mention of PRO is just bu***it. I have standard ZST and I like them. Now I am waiting for the upgraded cable.


----------



## Euljiro

to.m said:


> It is only a colourful variant, any mention of PRO is just bu***it. I have standard ZST and I like them. Now I am waiting for the upgraded cable.


 
 Ah thanks. i'll spend my money on that white replacement cable instead.


----------



## gemmoglock

euljiro said:


> Ah thanks. i'll spend my money on that white replacement cable instead.


 
 Yes do get it @CoiL's measurements were suprising. The stock cables have pretty crappy measurements.


----------



## chaiyuta

Refer to the following link http://www.banggood.com/KZ-ZST-Pro-Colorful-HIFI-Armature-Treble-Driver-Dynamic-Bass-Unit-Removable-Cable-Headphone-p-1104376.html , It seems that ZST purple edition is just not only changing on colour of housing but also sound quality. Did anybody buy it yet?
  
 Also, there is a customer feedback in a one of ali store said "Very good sound. Sound is different from black ones. Very clear."


----------



## gemmoglock

chaiyuta said:


> Refer to the following link http://www.banggood.com/KZ-ZST-Pro-Colorful-HIFI-Armature-Treble-Driver-Dynamic-Bass-Unit-Removable-Cable-Headphone-p-1104376.html , It seems that ZST purple edition is just not only changing on colour of housing but also sound quality. Did anybody buy it yet?
> 
> Also, there is a customer feedback in a one of ali store said "Very good sound. Sound is different from black ones. Very clear."




Ugh I just realised I should have ordered the coloured ones. The general trend for KZ is newer versions are typically improved...


----------



## WhiteWulfe

I would have purchased the candy ones myself if it hadn't been for GearBest getting the ZST's in stock and none of the stores advertising the two colour purple/blue pair as being regular price for 11.11... They wound up being on sale, but by that point I had already bought from GearBest. 

Hopefully they're the same thing just different colour options ^_^;;;;


----------



## bhazard

Got my ATR today.

 Were measurements ever provided on them? If not I can measure them this week.


----------



## Ziadax

I read somewhere that the original black ZST's were somewhat too smooth and lacked treble detail but if the new colored ones are an improvement in sound I might pick one up.


----------



## gemmoglock

bhazard said:


> Got my ATR today.
> 
> Were measurements ever provided on them? If not I can measure them this week.


 
 Don't think so posting a review would be awesome


----------



## vapman

bhazard said:


> Got my ATR today.
> 
> Were measurements ever provided on them? If not I can measure them this week.


 
 If you have the older ATE and  ATE-S both on hand i would absolutely love to see some comparison graphs...


----------



## CoiL

gemmoglock said:


> euljiro said:
> 
> 
> > Ah thanks. i'll spend my money on that white replacement cable instead.
> ...


 
 While stock KZ cables are little bad in measurements - be careful with all those silver plated "upgrade" OFC cables. I got Tennmak Upgrade cable (translucent silver/white for my **** 4in1 and it measures even worse, 1,2 Ohm, but it matches very well with 4in1 and "softens" 4in1 highs which is useful. 
  
 But with ATR that Tennmak upgrade cable doesn`t provide improvements (at least to my ears) but it didn`t go worse either. And imo, ATR didn`t change with "burn-in".
  
 I just got another SPOFC cable which is braided and looks much more HQ but I haven`t measured or tested it yet. Will let ppl know about "improvements" if any.
  


vapman said:


> bhazard said:
> 
> 
> > Got my ATR today.
> ...


 
  
 Would like to see those measurements also!


----------



## fonkepala

GB has the regular ZST for $11-ish now on flash sale. Worth a buy or should I just pass? I like my ATR, ATE & ATES, HDS1 & ED9..but itching to try a hybrid from KZ. I already have other hybrids i.e. the **** 4in1 & the 1More Triple Driver..but kinda curious how good (or bad) the ZST is...


----------



## Keller1

ziadax said:


> I read somewhere that the original black ZST's were somewhat too smooth and lacked treble detail but if the new colored ones are an improvement in sound I might pick one up.


 
 Really? That's exactly the opposite of my problem with the ZST. They're too harsh and get way too sibilant for my liking at high volumes. I've ordered the pink variant aswell as the silver cable and im hoping the sibilance gets sorted.


----------



## Shawn71

fonkepala said:


> Clones don't have pivoting nozzles right?




You got it......


----------



## BramblexD

Trying out different tips for the ZST I found that smaller silicon ones sound best to me. Treble isn't as harsh and bass goes down a notch from dual flanges. Actually sound pleasant to listen to now, and for my preference better than the **** 4in1


----------



## ext23

I'm new to KZ IEMs. Are they _all _over-ear type? I'd like to buy some for my little bro. If there are any straight down-style ones, I'm looking for something with a V-shaped sound with good treble clarity. Any suggestions?


----------



## Sylmar

ext23 said:


> I'm new to KZ IEMs. Are they _all _over-ear type? I'd like to buy some for my little bro. If there are any straight down-style ones, I'm looking for something with a V-shaped sound with good treble clarity. Any suggestions?


 
 No, most of them are cable down actually. The KZ ED9 has good treble. Comes with two nozzles too so you can alter the sound with those.


----------



## bartzky

Hey guys! I did some measurements of the KZ ATE with the Veritas. They should be rather comparable to uncompensated 711 measurements due my calibration. The ATE is the version with ventilation bores and black transitions between housing and cable.


----------



## To.M

ED9 can be a bit too heavy for the little bro, go for EDR2, they are cheap so no problem if the kiddo breaks them and good enough to enjoy music, clarity is ok!

Keller1 harsh treble in ZST? That's strange, in my perception highs are smooth and it is rather a common opinion. If so, it only proves how subjectively we hear.


----------



## gemmoglock

keller1 said:


> Really? That's exactly the opposite of my problem with the ZST. They're too harsh and get way too sibilant for my liking at high volumes. I've ordered the pink variant aswell as the silver cable and im hoping the sibilance gets sorted.


 

 Try different tips, fit can make a very large difference to sound!
  
@bartzky nice one 
  
 Can anyone who owns the VSonic GR07 do a quick comparison with the ATR/ATR/ZS3 please?


----------



## rikk009

ayao said:


> Ended up purchasing the ZST and XE800 on 11.11! Curious to see how the ZST compares to the ZS1, and how the $18AUD "100% Original Authentic" XE800 compares to my 2 year old XE800 xD
> EDIT: wrong thread. ATR also on the way from Gearbest!


 
 I would like to know that too, how it compares to the old/expensive ones...btw I got the movable nozzle one too and it was crap. http://www.head-fi.org/t/726119/review-vivo-xplay-3s-xe800-mobile-audio-perfection/540#post_12946814


----------



## Keller1

gemmoglock said:


> Try different tips, fit can make a very large difference to sound!


 
  
 The small tips actually corrected the sibilance. The ZST are freaking awesome.


----------



## actorlife

I like a warm sound, with not over blown bass. I love clear and precise Instruments/Voices. Hopefully no sibilance. Which one would you recommend? I see both of these are on sale at gearbest:
KZ ZST Dynamic HiFi Bass Music Sport In-ear Earphones
or
KZ-ATE 3.5mm In-Ear Earphones HiFi Stereo Headphones ​ Thanks!


----------



## Ruben123

actorlife said:


> I like a warm sound, with not over blown bass. I love clear and precise Instruments/Voices. Hopefully no sibilance. Which one would you recommend? I see both of these are on sale at gearbest:
> KZ ZST Dynamic HiFi Bass Music Sport In-ear Earphones
> or
> KZ-ATE 3.5mm In-Ear Earphones HiFi Stereo Headphones ​ Thanks!
> ...


----------



## actorlife

Huh?


----------



## zabunny94

actorlife seems like what you really want is kz ed3m acme


----------



## Ruben123

actorlife said:


> Huh?


 

 The quoting went wrong. Id recommend ATR or ED9, but indeed ED3 acme is good also. Though the best might even be the HDS1: neutral-warm, excellent mids, detailed though warm highs. Love them.


----------



## actorlife

ruben123 said:


> The quoting went wrong. Id recommend ATR or ED9, but indeed ED3 acme is good also. Though the best might even be the HDS1: neutral-warm, excellent mids, detailed though warm highs. Love them.


 
 I was looking at the ATR's too. I wanted to try the armature, since I only have the Soundmagic PL50 that I bought like 9 years ago, which are great. Do you not like the SQ on the ones I mentioned? I like Jazz, Rock and some pop/classical. i put the HDS1 on the list. Thanks.


----------



## Ruben123

actorlife said:


> I was looking at the ATR's too. I wanted to try the armature, since I only have the Soundmagic PL50 that I bought like 9 years ago, which are great. Do you not like the SQ on the ones I mentioned? I like Jazz, Rock and some pop/classical.


 
 If you could, and have the money, I would look at the Monoprice 8320 too. A neutral sound signature I havent yet seen in a KZ, great for classical, jazz and also some rock (depends on how much bass you want - they have extrmely precize bass response).


----------



## actorlife

zabunny94 said:


> @actorlife seems like what you really want is kz ed3m acme


 
 Thanks Z94 I've added those to the list.


----------



## actorlife

ruben123 said:


> If you could, and have the money, I would look at the Monoprice 8320 too. A neutral sound signature I havent yet seen in a KZ, great for classical, jazz and also some rock (depends on how much bass you want - they have extrmely precize bass response).


 
 I have those and they are in my bag.  Didn't know they were amature though.
 These right? https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-108320-Enhanced-Isolating-Earphones/dp/B007VEQ2UU
 Oh by the way how long does gearbest take to deliver in the US?


----------



## Ruben123

actorlife said:


> I have those and they are in my bag.  Didn't know they were amature though.
> These right? https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-108320-Enhanced-Isolating-Earphones/dp/B007VEQ2UU
> Oh by the way how long does gearbest take to deliver in the US?


 

 No armature but better than any KZ Ive listened to, when it comes to resolution, sound stage width and sound signature. Though of course if one prefers a more bass orientated earphone, one wouldnt like the Monoprice. But to come to the poin: if you already have the MP and want something warmer, the ATR is a great (and cheap) choice.


----------



## gemmoglock

keller1 said:


> The small tips actually corrected the sibilance. The ZST are freaking awesome.


 
  
 That's great! Good for you 
  
  


actorlife said:


> I like a warm sound, with not over blown bass. I love clear and precise Instruments/Voices. Hopefully no sibilance. Which one would you recommend? I see both of these are on sale at gearbest:
> KZ ZST Dynamic HiFi Bass Music Sport In-ear Earphones
> or
> KZ-ATE 3.5mm In-Ear Earphones HiFi Stereo Headphones ​ Thanks!
> ...


----------



## gemmoglock

actorlife said:


> I was looking at the ATR's too. I wanted to try the armature, since I only have the Soundmagic PL50 that I bought like 9 years ago, which are great. Do you not like the SQ on the ones I mentioned? I like Jazz, Rock and some pop/classical. i put the HDS1 on the list. Thanks.


 
  
  
 Don't bother about the ATEs as the ATR is an improved version in every way.
  
 I don't listen to much rock but instrumental jazz, pop, classical sound pretty decent on the ZS3 I bought, together with upgraded cable: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## Sereff

Thanks for replies guys. I bought one zst carbon and one zst colorful for my friend looking forward to put them on


----------



## bhazard

The ATR is pretty great for $5. There isn't anything wrong with the signature from first impressions, it just lacks the detail, imaging, separation and soundstage of far more expensive IEMS (obviously). Is it better than the ZST?

The ATR has the typical "KZ house sound", but with less midbass than usual. It still has slightly too much bass and slightly recessed mids, which are easily fixed a bit with EQ, making them sound very capable.

I might buy a few for stocking stuffers.

Yep, less than an hour in and with slight EQ, these are must buys. I'm A/Bing them against the $499 Vibro Arias here with a few friends for fun, and while it's unanimous the Aria is better, it's also the same consensus that it's hard to justify the extra cost. The ATR was more of a wow moment that it was $5, where everyone was expecting more out of something that is $499, me included.


----------



## fonkepala

rikk009 said:


> I would like to know that too, how it compares to the old/expensive ones...btw I got the movable nozzle one too and it was crap. http://www.head-fi.org/t/726119/review-vivo-xplay-3s-xe800-mobile-audio-perfection/540#post_12946814


 
  
 Strange. I bought from the same seller & I love the XE800 that I got. They sound good to me, with exceptional separation.


----------



## CoiL

gemmoglock said:


> Don't bother about the ATEs as the ATR is an improved version in every way.


 
 Except soundstage airiness/openness and frontal depth compared to 2nd gen ATE.
  


bhazard said:


> ...slightly recessed mids...
> 
> Yep, less than an hour in and with slight EQ, these are must buys. I'm A/Bing them against the $499 Vibro Arias here with a few friends for fun, and while it's unanimous the Aria is better, it's also the same consensus that it's hard to justify the extra cost. The ATR was more of a wow moment that it was $5, where everyone was expecting more out of something that is $499, me included.


 
 Maybe it`s about source gear match, idk, but I do not find ATR mids recessed, even not slightly. Since overall sound signature is slightly V-shaped, then I would say at most it is neutral in mids. 
 But with my gear and preferences these sound pretty much spot-on and very natural in mids. 
 And I wouldn`t say they lack details - of course they are`nt on level with BA detail but for single dynamic these have actually very good detail. I`m comparing them with **** 4in1 and honestly, I would pick ATR (modified + starline tips) over 4in1.


----------



## 1clearhead

bhazard said:


> The ATR is pretty great for $5. There isn't anything wrong with the signature from first impressions, it just lacks the detail, imaging, separation and soundstage of far more expensive IEMS (obviously). Is it better than the ZST?
> 
> The ATR has the typical "KZ house sound", but with less midbass than usual. It still has slightly too much bass and slightly recessed mids, which are easily fixed a bit with EQ, making them sound very capable.
> 
> ...


 
    Quote:


coil said:


> Except soundstage airiness/openness and frontal depth compared to 2nd gen ATE.
> 
> Maybe it`s about source gear match, idk, but I do not find ATR mids recessed, even not slightly. Since overall sound signature is slightly V-shaped, then I would say at most it is neutral in mids.
> But with my gear and preferences these sound pretty much spot-on and very natural in mids.
> And I wouldn`t say they lack details - of course they are`nt on level with BA detail but for single dynamic these have actually very good detail. I`m comparing them with **** 4in1 and honestly, I would pick ATR (modified + starline tips) over 4in1.


 
  
 I agree! The ATR's are some of the best 5 to 6 dollar purchases anyone could make at the moment and can easily hold its own with many expensive models out there.


----------



## gemmoglock

bhazard said:


> The ATR is pretty great for $5. There isn't anything wrong with the signature from first impressions, it just lacks the detail, imaging, separation and soundstage of far more expensive IEMS (obviously). Is it better than the ZST?
> 
> The ATR has the typical "KZ house sound", but with less midbass than usual. It still has slightly too much bass and slightly recessed mids, which are easily fixed a bit with EQ, making them sound very capable.
> 
> ...


 
  


1clearhead said:


> Quote:
> 
> I agree! The ATR's are some of the best 5 to 6 dollar purchases anyone could make at the moment and can easily hold its own with many expensive models out there.


 
  


coil said:


> Except soundstage airiness/openness and frontal depth compared to 2nd gen ATE.
> 
> Maybe it`s about source gear match, idk, but I do not find ATR mids recessed, even not slightly. Since overall sound signature is slightly V-shaped, then I would say at most it is neutral in mids.
> But with my gear and preferences these sound pretty much spot-on and very natural in mids.
> And I wouldn`t say they lack details - of course they are`nt on level with BA detail but for single dynamic these have actually very good detail. I`m comparing them with **** 4in1 and honestly, I would pick ATR (modified + starline tips) over 4in1.


 
  
 You guys are giving me such a tough choice... I'm waiting for my ZST and ATR but I don't want to keep them all so I don't which one to sell brand new unopened :/

 But on a serious note if you all have A/Bed them please let me know what you think! I'm currently using the ZS3 and pretty happy with it. If I have any room for improvement is sweeter highs and less bass.


----------



## Ruben123

gemmoglock said:


> You guys are giving me such a tough choice... I'm waiting for my ZST and ATR but I don't want to keep them all so I don't which one to sell brand new unopened :/
> 
> 
> But on a serious note if you all have A/Bed them please let me know what you think! I'm currently using the ZS3 and pretty happy with it. If I have any room for improvement is sweeter highs and less bass.




I think the zs3 and atr are more alike than different. Though for better highs and bass provably both zst and atr are not what you're looking for... You might look at the ed9 instead.


----------



## gemmoglock

ruben123 said:


> I think the zs3 and atr are more alike than different. Though for better highs and bass provably both zst and atr are not what you're looking for... You might look at the ed9 instead.


 
  
 To clarify, I have the ZS3 now. I have black (not coloured 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) ZST and ATR on the way.
  
 Should I:
 1) Keep ZS3 and ATR
 2) Keep ZS3 and ZST
 3) Keep ZST and give/sell away the other two?


----------



## mebaali

To my ears and gears, I prefer ATR more so than ZST.

My main gripe with ZST is their treble presentation. For a supposedly BA (+DD) driven phones, ZST's treble are very grainy and unclear (have tip rolled extensively and been using these for the last 2 weeks).

ZST's overall clarity too, is not what I would expect from a DD+BA hybrid ( find my good old ED9 with its brass nozzle to produce much more detail than ZST and they are single DD phones).

ATR OTOH, is clean sounding very well balanced phones with a tinge of warmth (just enough) for my tastes.


----------



## Ruben123

gemmoglock said:


> To clarify, I have the ZS3 now. I have black (not coloured  ) ZST and ATR on the way.
> 
> Should I:
> 1) Keep ZS3 and ATR
> ...




Keep zs3 or Atr as they're quite similar, sell zst as it's said to be rubbish, and/out get the ed9 instead. Or hds1.


----------



## mebaali

ruben123 said:


> Keep zs3 or Atr as they're quite similar, sell zst as it's said to be rubbish, and/out get the ed9 instead. Or hds1.




Couldn't agree more on HDS1. I have new found respect for these over the last few weeks as my sleep time phones. A very clear and balanced sounding presentation that these are, also offers great comfort for my ears.


----------



## actorlife

Are the KZ ED3M and KZ HDS1 similiar? Thanks for all the great answers guys.


----------



## Shawn71

actorlife said:


> Are the [COLOR=333333]KZ ED3M and [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]KZ HDS1 similiar? Thanks for all the great answers guys.[/COLOR]




cant comment on their sound front but latter is so small in comparison and so a snuggy fit IS guaranteed......


----------



## actorlife

Well after reading and watching some reviews these look like the best for under $10. Anyone try these with the Sony Hybrid tips? Thoughts? Anyone knows how long gearbest takes to deliver to the US?
 KZ ZS3
 KZ ED3M
 KZ-ED9
 KZ ATR


----------



## Keller1

mebaali said:


> To my ears and gears, I prefer ATR more so than ZST.
> 
> My main gripe with ZST is their treble presentation. For a supposedly BA (+DD) driven phones, ZST's treble are very grainy and unclear (have tip rolled extensively and been using these for the last 2 weeks).
> 
> ...


 
  
 ZST Defence force here:

 Do we have the same headphone?
 The ZST sounds incredibly clear. I
 'd call the highs a bit sharp but overall it's more impressive than any other KZ i've tried by a lot. [Admittedly i have not tried the ATR or the ZS3, just the ATE, RX and HDS3]

 Also the amount of detail that it resolves is ridiculous.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Everyone recommending the ZS3/ATR/ED9.  Funnily those three are the ones I purchased on the 11/11 sale.
  
 GearBest still hasn't shipped out my stuff yet though.  Anyone else get their items shipped out?  I'm assuming they're a bit backed up after the sale since my order on 11/1 got shipped out within 24hrs np.


----------



## Keller1

sometechnoob said:


> Everyone recommending the ZS3/ATR/ED9.  Funnily those three are the ones I purchased on the 11/11 sale.
> 
> GearBest still hasn't shipped out my stuff yet though.  Anyone else get their items shipped out?  I'm assuming they're a bit backed up after the sale since my order on 11/1 got shipped out within 24hrs np.


 

 They shipped out my ED12/ZS3 Today, apparently.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Did you pick them up on 11/11?
  
 Hopefully mine ship out soon.  Stuff from Gearbest takes forever to arrive in the US if you pick the free shipping option.  Ahhhhh...


----------



## Keller1

sometechnoob said:


> Did you pick them up on 11/11?
> 
> Hopefully mine ship out soon.  Stuff from Gearbest takes forever to arrive in the US if you pick the free shipping option.  Ahhhhh...


 

 No, I picked them up 9/11 but the promotions were already up.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> gemmoglock said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are giving me such a tough choice... I'm waiting for my ZST and ATR but I don't want to keep them all so I don't which one to sell brand new unopened :/
> ...


  
@gemmoglock ,if You are looking improvement over ZS3, with sweeter highs and less bass, then don`t take ED9 - it is more V-shaped sounding and has less accurate midrange than ATR, also, ED9 highs are sometimes slightly "splashy" and somewhat unnatural, imho. Also, being more V-shaped, ED9 bass can be sometimes too "boomy", even with brass nozzles. ED9 requires deep fit, wide bore tips and brass nozzle with foam-filter mod to sound best it can.
 ATR + starline tips (or some other depending on ear shape) should fit for Your taste very good if You already like ZS3.
  


coil said:


> gemmoglock said:
> 
> 
> > euljiro said:
> ...


 


 Btw, I measured my new MMCX cable and it is 0.7 Ohm. More than I expected, was hoping for around 0.4-0.5 Ohm, but I`ll try to compare that 0.5 Ohm difference with Tennmak upgrade cable (1.2 Ohm) with ATR soon and report back.


----------



## Keller1

Also, why do no other KZ IEMs use the neat little smooth metal weights from the ATE but instead these annoying rubber ones?


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


>


 

 Well... we must hear very different lol
 ED9 is much more neutral than the ATR, though to say that the ED9 is better.... I wouldnt say that. One thing for sure: The ATR has much more bass than the quite bass light ED9. ED9's mids might be slightly thin compared to ATR, but they are actually quite revealing and even warmer than neutral if you listen closely. In the end I would call them everything but V-shaped!


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> Well... we must hear very different lol
> ED9 is much more neutral than the ATR, though to say that the ED9 is better.... I wouldnt say that. One thing for sure: The ATR has much more bass than the quite bass light ED9. ED9's mids might be slightly thin compared to ATR, but they are actually quite revealing and even warmer than neutral if you listen closely. In the end I would call them everything but V-shaped!


 
 Yes, we do must hear differently or our source gear is very different. But if You read up on ED9 reviews, You`ll see what I`m talking about. I`ve had 4 ED9`s from different ordering periods and still owning one pair - while there have been few reports about slight difference in sound, their overall sound signature is same.
 Warmer than neutral mids @ ED9 ? imho nope.
 ED9 bass light? imho nope.
 ED9 everything but V-shaped? imho nope.
  
 But this is just my subjective opinion and experience with my ears, music and gear


----------



## actorlife

Any thoughts on the KZ-ED9 Grey VS Black SQ?
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGWVVgLuqsw&t=44s


----------



## Ruben123

actorlife said:


> Any thoughts on the [COLOR=333333]KZ-ED9[/COLOR] Grey VS Black SQ?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGWVVgLuqsw&t=44s




Same earphone, owned both for a long time


----------



## Mellowship

ruben123 said:


> Same earphone, owned both for a long time


 
  
 Own both too. Sound the same to me. I like the black one best, for it's appearance.


----------



## Vidal

I agree with the comments, no difference in sound but the black finish looks much better.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

sometechnoob said:


> Everyone recommending the ZS3/ATR/ED9.  Funnily those three are the ones I purchased on the 11/11 sale.
> 
> GearBest still hasn't shipped out my stuff yet though.  Anyone else get their items shipped out?  I'm assuming they're a bit backed up after the sale since my order on 11/1 got shipped out within 24hrs np.




Ordered my ED12's and ZST's on Nov 10th with registered shipping to Canada and they still haven't shipped, which to me is slightly eery since every vendor I ordered from on AliExpress shipped within 42 hours of ordering, and those orders were put in on the 11th. I suspect I'll see a shipping notice soon though ^_^


----------



## mebaali

keller1 said:


> ZST Defence force here:
> 
> 
> Do we have the same headphone?
> ...




Then, I must be having a defective pair or the sound presentation of these are just not for me. 

IIRC, there were few early ZST users (@1clearhead for example) who had somewhat similar experience to mine. Could be the KZs notorious QC issue. Because, I would not associate my ZST's sound with anything that you are experiencing with yours. 

Cheers!


----------



## Euljiro

mebaali said:


> Then, I must be having a defective pair or the sound presentation of these are just not for me.
> 
> IIRC, there were few early ZST users (@1clearhead for example) who had somewhat similar experience to mine. Could be the KZs notorious QC issue. Because, I would not associate my ZST's sound with anything that you are experiencing with yours.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 I want to share my experience with you here. I experienced both characteristics from the same pair of ZST. I first wrote about how I felt about the ZST a while ago here on this thread. At first, I thought them to be harsh on the treble area. just sharp piercing highs. But the bass was spot on for me. fast, tight, not boomy at all. I liked them quite a bit, the 'star' tips that came with the ZST was comfortable, fit me pretty well. But I had fit issues with the ZS3, so I ordered a few pairs of Comply clone foam tips. When they arrived I tried those tips with my ZST and boy oh boy, did the sound change. Highs became so smooth, lots and lots more bass and boomy. You wouldnt believe they are the same pair. Don't know how much was the burn-in and how much was the tips. So i guess, tips and how they fit your ears matter, among other things you mentioned like quality control and of course how subjective we hear.


----------



## ext23

I'd like to up- or sidegrade from the Xiaomi Hybrids for my girlfriend.
  
 Is there a KZ model that offers better treble than the Xiaomis? I'm looking at the ED9 at the moment.
  
 Anything else for $20 or less that would be worthwhile?


----------



## chthonical

Regarding the ZS3s through Gearbest, is it worth putting in for the more expensive shipping? I have no problem with the insurance, but the price rapidly increases for these little impulse purchases when you go in on the advertised free shipping and realize the $7.60 headphones instead will cost $12.


----------



## ayao

chthonical said:


> Regarding the ZS3s through Gearbest, is it worth putting in for the more expensive shipping? I have no problem with the insurance, but the price rapidly increases for these little impulse purchases when you go in on the advertised free shipping and realize the $7.60 headphones instead will cost $12.


 
 I personally don't think it's worth it. Even though I only recently purchased from Gearbest for the first time, all of my AliExpress orders were successfully delivered within 60 days so I have confidence that my ATR (from Gearbest) will make it haha
 Unless you really want to try the earphones as soon as possible, I'd recommend going with the slow & free option (especially if it's an impulse purchase and you have other earphones available). From what I've read, most of the "deliveries gone wrong" happened in the customer's own country (aka local post).


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I agree with ayao.  All my stuff I've ordered from GearBest has come in eventually.  They're a bit slower than some of the other china retailers I shop at, but they've got the best prices.  Unless you need an IEM right asap, just go with free shipping.


----------



## jmwreck

mebaali said:


> To my ears and gears, I prefer ATR more so than ZST.
> 
> My main gripe with ZST is their treble presentation. For a supposedly BA (+DD) driven phones, ZST's treble are very grainy and unclear (have tip rolled extensively and been using these for the last 2 weeks).
> 
> ...


 
 This is definitely what I thought about the ZST and my ED9 outperforms same as what you have described.


----------



## rikk009

Why am I the only one who hasn't received the ZS3 from gearbest shipped on 22nd Sep. :sigh:


----------



## chthonical

So I'm hearing a bit of disconcert regarding which headphones are the "best". Between the ZS3 and the ATR, which is the better bet? Gearbest is selling the ZS3 for $7.59 and the ATR for $5.20. Or should I be looking at something else? I'm hunting for a good sport headphone that has a low visual profile.


----------



## dilidani

Imo both ate line and zs 3 have pretty chunky housing, no go for workout imo. Go with qkc w1 pro or whatever it is called. It's 8 usd and tiny  sound wise, I have zs 3,but I'm not impressed. Neither fit wise, neither sound or qc wise. I'm sure there are better choices. Right now rocking with plextone x41m, has huuge and deep bass, I just love it. But it's for bass heavy edm and hiphop only,and build quality is rubbish.


----------



## To.M

chthonical said:


> So I'm hearing a bit of disconcert regarding which headphones are the "best". Between the ZS3 and the ATR, which is the better bet? Gearbest is selling the ZS3 for $7.59 and the ATR for $5.20. Or should I be looking at something else? I'm hunting for a good sport headphone that has a low visual profile.




I have ATE and ZST which I like a lot but for sport, in my case running, ATE/ATR are not recommendable, the cable jumps, sways too much during runs, that is why I use and recommend for this purpose QKZ W1 PRO: comfortable fit, light with a good balanced sound.


----------



## crabdog

chthonical said:


> So I'm hearing a bit of disconcert regarding which headphones are the "best". Between the ZS3 and the ATR, which is the better bet? Gearbest is selling the ZS3 for $7.59 and the ATR for $5.20. Or should I be looking at something else? I'm hunting for a good sport headphone that has a low visual profile.


 
 Take a look at this, should be good for sport and better than average battery life for AptX phones:
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/QCY-QY12-magnet-switch-adsorption-earphones-sport-wireless-bluetooth-4-1-headphones-aptx-headset-with-Mic/1455660_32766418104.html


----------



## To.M

I had QCY QY7 and they were really good soundwise, however, the problem with bluetooth earphones is that you want to go running but you realize you forgot to charge them or they go dead in the middle of your run...


----------



## gemmoglock

Thanks to all those that helped with input on which to keep ZST or ATR with my ZS3, appreciate it! Somehow my ZS3 bass seems to tone down after some time, not sure if it is just psychological...
  
 Quote:


chthonical said:


> Regarding the ZS3s through Gearbest, is it worth putting in for the more expensive shipping? I have no problem with the insurance, but the price rapidly increases for these little impulse purchases when you go in on the advertised free shipping and realize the $7.60 headphones instead will cost $12.


 
  
 For people deciding about type of shipping be careful! Read this: http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/youve-got-mail-but-its-lost-in-transit
  
 Although this is only for Singapore, I believe the same applies for other countries. TLDR: unless paying for express courier so long as it touches your normal postal service no point having registered mail :/


----------



## WhiteWulfe

chthonical said:


> Regarding the ZS3s through Gearbest, is it worth putting in for the more expensive shipping? I have no problem with the insurance, but the price rapidly increases for these little impulse purchases when you go in on the advertised free shipping and realize the $7.60 headphones instead will cost $12.


 
  
 I went for the faster shipping myself, but in most cases it was only an extra $5 CAD or so including insurance for four pairs.  Dropped the timeframes from 60 days down to the 10-25 business day timeframe, and apparently I'll be getting my ATR's and ZS3's in this week if tracking is correct.  My ED12's and ZST's haven't shipped yet, but it has only been two business days so far since I ordered them.


----------



## trumpethead

chthonical said:


> So I'm hearing a bit of disconcert regarding which headphones are the "best". Between the ZS3 and the ATR, which is the better bet? Gearbest is selling the ZS3 for $7.59 and the ATR for $5.20. Or should I be looking at something else? I'm hunting for a good sport headphone that has a low visual profile.



Imo they both are very good soundwise, especially considering the price. Two different sound signatures..Atr is more balanced with a clear and detailed sound..Very good controlled bass, more quality than quantity...Zs3 is more energetic and fun sounding with more bass, not to boomy with the right tips, slightly V shaped but not in an unpleasant way.. Both have decent soundstage and separation. I amp them both with my Fiio E6 which provides just enough boost to fill in the sound without overamping...I enjoy both however when it comes to fit the ATR are perfect for my ears, whereas the ZS3 has that pressurized feeling in my left ear that others have spoke about.. I have found that a shallow fit helps to alleviate it somewhat but it is still there. ATR cost less but no removable cables so I purchased extra backups just in case. Can't beat them all things considered..ATR is my favorite ATM.....


----------



## KipNix

After I got my ZS3 and some brain-in time, I thought the bass was slightly subdued, too. It turns out it was the music I was playing. The Comply-like tips helped, too.
  
 I love these things!


----------



## thekenta

Thanks for all the help, this thread is great.
  
 Went for the ATR, ED9 and HDS1.
 Since I'm not a friend of wearing over ear designed IEMs in public, I skipped buying the ZS3 and got the HDS1 instead.
  
 Can't wait to try all of them out.


----------



## khighly

Hey guys,

 Just bought the ZST, ZST Purple/Color, ATR, ATE, and ED12. I'll let you guys know my opinions on each of them when I get them in a few days. I'm curious to see how they compare to my trusty $8 Philips SHE3590's.


----------



## chthonical

Question. I've heard rumor that having a microphone on the line can affect quality. Is there anything concrete to that? I was specifically looking into the microphone versions of the KZs.


----------



## Podster

chthonical said:


> Question. I've heard rumor that having a microphone on the line can affect quality. Is there anything concrete to that? I was specifically looking into the microphone versions of the KZs.


 

 Not to me and I have both with and without but I generally prefer my KZ w/Mic as they are travel iem's I don't have to worry about miss placing
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Doing my $80 Rock Concert today
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 C3>QX-10>JDS Mini IC>Obviously ZS3 w/Silver
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Kenta/Highly Some great picks, enjoy


----------



## Keller1

Does the silver cable actually affect sound in any meaningful way? I've got a pink ZST with a silver cable on the way [ just because it looks outrageous ].


----------



## khighly

keller1 said:


> Does the silver cable actually affect sound in any meaningful way? I've got a pink ZST with a silver cable on the way [ just because it looks outrageous ].


 
 It shouldn't. None of these cables are shielded and there is no evidence that cable material makes any difference in sound quality. It is likely a higher quality cable, but the sound will not change.

 Did you get the pink/blue ZST's? If so, where did you find them in stock? I got them on pre-order from banggood.


----------



## Keller1

khighly said:


> It shouldn't. None of these cables are shielded and there is no evidence that cable material makes any difference in sound quality. It is likely a higher quality cable, but the sound will not change.


 
 Probably KZ's way of nickel & diming us - they dont sell the actual regular cables so if you break a cable you're SOL on your $10 IEM.

 Dont worry though, you can buy a replacement cable for $6.
  
 I honestly dont mind since it arguably looks better aswell.


----------



## chaiyuta

keller1 said:


> Does the silver cable actually affect sound in any meaningful way? I've got a pink ZST with a silver cable on the way [ just because it looks outrageous ].


 
 Mostly guys in this thread that bought a KZ silver cable said they perceive changes. Vocal becomes more forward than the stock ones. However, nobody said the sound totally changes likes a worm become a butterfly. You can look around on previous pages of this thread to see more elaboration on their impression. Since you bought it, please kindly share your opinions on them. I also would like to know whether Black ZST's sound and Pink ZST's sound have different tuning or not.


----------



## Kefkiroth

Anyone have experience ordering the ED12 from GearBest? I've waited two weeks since Nov 1, and DHL tracking still has it as "En route to DHL eCommerce Distribution Center" since Nov 2. I bought it with shipping insurance as well. I hope they actually arrive.


----------



## Shawn71

kefkiroth said:


> Anyone have experience ordering the ED12 from GearBest? I've waited two weeks since Nov 1, and DHL tracking still has it as "En route to DHL eCommerce Distribution Center" since Nov 2. I bought it with shipping insurance as well. I hope they actually arrive.




I wld say,cut a ticket and see what actually they respond.....


----------



## WhiteWulfe

chaiyuta said:


> Mostly guys in this thread that bought a KZ silver cable said they perceive changes. Vocal becomes more forward than the stock ones. However, nobody said the sound totally changes likes a worm become a butterfly. You can look around on previous pages of this thread to see more elaboration on their impression. Since you bought it, please kindly share your opinions on them. I also would like to know whether Black ZST's sound and Pink ZST's sound have different tuning or not.


 
  
 Sent in a message a few days ago to HCK, and Jim said they're the exact same, just different colour bodies.


----------



## Shawn71

chaiyuta said:


> Mostly guys in this thread that bought a KZ silver cable said they perceive changes. Vocal becomes more forward than the stock ones. However, nobody said the sound totally changes likes a worm become a butterfly. You can look around on previous pages of this thread to see more elaboration on their impression. Since you bought it, please kindly share your opinions on them. I also would like to know whether Black ZST's sound and Pink ZST's sound have different tuning or not.




Nah its just they named "pro" for the color variation and there might not be any change at the sound level, BUT if it is as well, tuned differently from the original zst,Im gonna bite it!


----------



## pooley

hi peeps,
  
 got some ATE's paired with a sansa zip for the gym but the left cable is askew and does not go over my ear snuggly like the right.
 clearly the QC is not the best a KZ, was wondering if anyone else has had this issue and also wondering if some over the ear guides would help?
  
 tia


----------



## Ruben123

pooley said:


> hi peeps,
> 
> got some ATE's paired with a sansa zip for the gym but the left cable is askew and does not go over my ear snuggly like the right.
> clearly the QC is not the best a KZ, was wondering if anyone else has had this issue and also wondering if some over the ear guides would help?
> ...


 

 Got the same with the ATR! Very strange. One side keeps falling off my ear during running all the time while the other side keeps nice in place. Guides will help for sure, or perhaps making memory wire by using tape or so?


----------



## gemmoglock

keller1 said:


> Does the silver cable actually affect sound in any meaningful way? I've got a pink ZST with a silver cable on the way [ just because it looks outrageous ].


 
 Slightly improved based on measurements by others in the problem.
  
 It is not so much that the silver COATED cable is better, but the stock cable has pretty poor readings....


chthonical said:


> Question. I've heard rumor that having a microphone on the line can affect quality. Is there anything concrete to that? I was specifically looking into the microphone versions of the KZs.


 
 I've also heard rumours but I doubt they are significant in terms of difference for IEMs of these price.


----------



## Comebackboy

Yo just wanted to give a quick comparison of the ZS3 and ZST, can't seem to find much comparisons between the two online.
  
 I picked up the ZST a month ago and have been using them, and the ZS3 I got today. I'd have to say that it's not really fair to compare between the two imo, they sound different to begin with. Might have to burn in the ZS3 but out the box I think I already prefer the ZS3 despite having used the ZST for a month (mental burn in and what not).  I do use the silver plated cable for both and I would really recommend it. Just a couple of dollars more but it really does change the sound for the better. Just some things that I thought might be useful if anyone is considering between the two
  
 ZST is much bassier, much more aggressive. A bit too much for me but if you're a basshead you'll like it. Slightly bloated. ZS3 on the other hand is quicker and punchier, while not being overly-aggressive. ZS3 wins this round.
  
 Clarity-wise, I would say the ZST is slightly better, thanks to its hybrid drivers. ZS3 doesn't lose out by much though, just ever so slightly. But I mean considering it's a single DD, clarity is pretty good in the grand scheme of things. ZST wins this round.
  
 Vocals is where the ZS3 beats the ZST by miles. Vocals on the ZST sound muddy and grainy. Both male and female vocals are much clearer on the ZS3, and overall the mids sound better on the ZS3. Instruments are also good. This is really my main gripe with the ZST - the grainy-ness.
  
 Highs are pretty much similar imo, can't really tell the difference between the two.
  
 Soundstage is where the ZST is much better than the ZS3. ZST's soundstage is much wider and more expansive, while the ZS3 is much more closed and tighter. For the ZST it sounds like music is coming all around but the ZS3 sounds more like it's coming from behind you. 
  
 So I think between the two it's really hard to compare because they sound different. Depends on what you're looking for - whether its the wide soundstage or the clear vocals etc. Overall I would say that personally I prefer the ZS3 because vocals are really important to me. And the wide soundstage makes the ZST sound abit too uncontrolled for me. I do like the "all-around" feel but I'd rather have the clear vocals from the ZS3. Sigh if only ZST could have the vocals of the ZS3, that would be great.
  
 Overall I think it really depends on what you're looking for in the earphone and personal preference imo, a tad bit hard to pick between the two. Just some things that I thought are worth mentioning.
  
 Now time to try out the ATR, after seeing everyone concur that it's really good/on par with the ZS3


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Interestingly enough GearBest shipped out my ED9 today, but lists my ZS3 as not shipped. Looks like they split my order in two for some reason.


----------



## hoerlurar

gemmoglock said:


> If you haven't ordered support me at this link please  http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_432000.html you can still use this link but order others like the ZS3 as well depending on what sound you prefer


 
  
 affiliate links are not allowed on head-fi:
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


> *Affiliate links* from Amazon, Indiegogo and other sites (eg: Free iPads etc.) where you get a discount or payment when people buy or pledge for things after clicking the link are forbidden. We are not a means to get gear for free or make money for nothing.


----------



## gemmoglock

hoerlurar said:


> affiliate links are not allowed on head-fi:
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


 
 Sorry about that, removed! Wasn't aware of it.


----------



## pooley

ruben123 said:


> Got the same with the ATR! Very strange. One side keeps falling off my ear during running all the time while the other side keeps nice in place. Guides will help for sure, or perhaps making memory wire by using tape or so?


 
 yup it falls off for me too   going to try something, prolly the tape method first..


----------



## Djsenjaya

sometechnoob said:


> Interestingly enough GearBest shipped out my ED9 today, but lists my ZS3 as not shipped. Looks like they split my order in two for some reason.




Gearbest tend to do that. That's why I hate gearbest. Their customer service was bad too. Tickets takes week for their reply.


----------



## Byfrost

kefkiroth said:


> Anyone have experience ordering the ED12 from GearBest? I've waited two weeks since Nov 1, and DHL tracking still has it as "En route to DHL eCommerce Distribution Center" since Nov 2. I bought it with shipping insurance as well. I hope they actually arrive.


 
  
  
 I purchased my ED12 and ZS3 from GearBest. Took about 20 days to arrive to Singapore, used their cheapest shipping option which costs 10 cents?. A trick to note, is to log in to GearBest from your desktop browser, and keep spamming the "Ship Faster" button.
  
 Go to your "My Orders" page, click "Ship Faster", refresh the page, click again. Rinse and Repeat. My order was shipped within the third day. Both ED12 and ZS3 came together, not separately.


----------



## Byfrost

djsenjaya said:


> Gearbest tend to do that. That's why I hate gearbest. Their customer service was bad too. Tickets takes week for their reply.


 

 Hmm... My support ticket (GearBest account related matters) took about 4 hours to get a reply.


----------



## Djsenjaya

byfrost said:


> Hmm... My support ticket (GearBest account related matters) took about 4 hours to get a reply.




Then i guess their services was going better now. Haven't doing business with them for a year. Last time i remember to wait for around 2 hours queue just to chat with their customers service because they didn't reply my ticket for week. And their customer service was bad, they can disconnect you without any information and you have to queue fot another 2 hours.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

GearBest split ship my ZS3's and ATR's....  Got to try out the ATR's for a little bit today, but despite shipping only a day later my ZS3's still haven't made it into Canada.  Really hoping this changes soon, as I'd like to try the ZS3's as well.  On the plus side, I can definitely see myself wanting to delve deeper into IEM's and whatnot, as I really like the ATR's...  
  
 Now if only GearBest would ship my ZST's and ED12's that I ordered almost a week ago!


----------



## Kefkiroth

byfrost said:


> I purchased my ED12 and ZS3 from GearBest. Took about 20 days to arrive to Singapore, used their cheapest shipping option which costs 10 cents?. A trick to note, is to log in to GearBest from your desktop browser, and keep spamming the "Ship Faster" button.
> 
> Go to your "My Orders" page, click "Ship Faster", refresh the page, click again. Rinse and Repeat. My order was shipped within the third day. Both ED12 and ZS3 came together, not separately.


 
 Hmm, didn't even know that was an option. I wonder how that even affects the shipping system at all. Just did this for another order (the new "gen 5" Xiaomi IEM).
  
 My ED12 already has been shipped out, if I'm to believe DHL. My concern was that the shipping method I picked was listed at 4-5 business days, but it's been over two weeks since it shipped with no tracking updates. Apparently it's shipped, but it hasn't arrived here in the US for quite a while. I guess if it took 20 days to reach Singapore, it might take a bit longer to reach here. It should theoretically be somewhere between China and the DHL eCommerce Distribution Center (in Cali)
  
 This just comes as a surprise since when I ordered the Xiaomi Hybrid last year, it only took about two weeks total from order to delivery, with plenty of tracking updates along the way. I suppose International Bridge (who delivered that package) is just much better than DHL (who I'm waiting on for the ED12).


----------



## ayao

I must've been lucky then, since GearBest shipped my order 7 hours after I checked out. I just logged on to the GearBest site, and noticed that they even attached a photo of the package (with my shipping details). It was just a single ATR without any shipping options lol


----------



## Euljiro

Finally! I got the ATRs today. So far so good OOTB. Will try to do A-B comparison with the others when I have time.
  
 These are my last KZs, not going to buy anything anymore. Until....
  
 Oh wait, still haven't tried the silver cable yet. Dammit.


----------



## Podster

chaiyuta said:


> Mostly guys in this thread that bought a KZ silver cable said they perceive changes. Vocal becomes more forward than the stock ones. However, nobody said the sound totally changes likes a worm become a butterfly. You can look around on previous pages of this thread to see more elaboration on their impression. Since you bought it, please kindly share your opinions on them. I also would like to know whether Black ZST's sound and Pink ZST's sound have different tuning or not.


 

 Like with my silver phono cable at home their is a definite difference in the treble/Mids region for me with the silver (you can call it my perception if you want
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), for me I don't perceive either one of these as being forward but clarity of detail is upped in both cases on both systems. I guess like subjectivity we also perceive what we hear differently
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 p.s. IMO if KZ had offered the ability to upgrade to silver in all their offerings they would even be considered super bang for your buck!


----------



## chaiyuta

podster said:


> Like with my silver phono cable at home their is a definite difference in the treble/Mids region for me with the silver (you can call it my perception if you want
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I own KZ ZST moreover I also have many upgraded cables; however, a lot of guys here are cable hater. If you go back previous page again and again, you can see my impression. Then you will find a lot of abuse comments to me or even discredited comments. I think it's better to use "percieve" word and comment based on another user's comments so that this thread still keeps a good environment.


----------



## aaDee

Can someone pls provide me ATR mod link??


----------



## khighly

First *ATE* impressions:

 I just came from Philips SHE3590's so my ears still have to adjust but here's what I think so far after 2 hours of listening. Somewhat of a flat sound, definitely missing some higher end mids and then skips right to tinny highs. Low frequency (<50hz) bass is missing and muddy even seated deep in my ear. When you get a lot going on in a song they start not being able to reproduce everything clearly. Just listening to the ambient white noise on some tracks you can tell they're missing a higher end towards 16k. It's like listening to FM radio where they cut at 15Khz. This is the same with foam & the rubber tips.

 Box was nice, everything feels very high quality for $10. For <$10, it's hard to beat this.
  
*Test Songs:*
 Pink Floyd - Money (24/96 FLAC Vinyl)
 Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond (24/96 FLAC Vinyl)
 Pink Floyd - Comfortably Numb (24/96 FLAC Vinyl) (You can really tell the lack of mids with vocals in this song. It's like someone put a bandpass filter on them.)
 Pink Floyd - Echoes (24/96 FLAC Vinyl) (The upper end highs just aren't there at all)
 Steely Dan - Jack Of Speed (24/96 FLAC Vinyl)
 Anderson .Paak - Am I Wrong
 Various Spag Heddy (Low Frequencies)
 Pool Party - Luckier
 Incubus - Megalomaniac (24/96 FLAC Vinyl) (One of the few IEM's I've tested to actually sound good with Incubus mastering which contradicts my 'busy' statement above)
 Incubus - Anna Molly
 Sia - Alive (Horrible on these headphones)

 I am very skeptical of break in due to lack of evidence, and I know that different cables do not make a difference, so I am taking neither of those into account for this review.

 I'll post more thoughts when my ears get used to them. I have 2 more pairs of different KZ's (ED12, ZST)  coming later today so I'll post my thoughts on those later as well.


----------



## Podster

chaiyuta said:


> Yeah, I own KZ ZST moreover I also have many upgraded cables; however, a lot of guys here are cable hater. If you go back previous page again and again, you can see my impression. Then you will find a lot of abuse comments to me or even discredited comments. I think it's better to use "percieve" word and comment based on another user's comments so that this thread still keeps a good environment.


 

 I hear you on that but I always just tell myself what do these guys know
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My mom would have told them if they did not have anything nice to say just say nothing at all
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even as subjective as all this stuff is you will always have those that say it's another color! I take most with a grain of salt


----------



## khighly

I got the ZST's about an hour and a half ago.
  
*WOW!*

 These sound phenomenal! They are in a completely different universe than the ATE's. Rich crisp clear highs that extend very far up in frequency. Deep clear crisp lows that aren't muddy at all, though the lows may be a bit too much for some people, I personally love the lows on all types of music I've listened to so far. The shape of the sound is more flat & doesn't comrpomise lyrics. I am hearing many things in the music that I have never heard before (Pink Floyd - Echoes has a low tap in the left channel). Everything shines even when there is a lot going on. These are tuned very well and have an enormous soundstage with excellent stereo separation. They sound excellent on every type of music I've listened to from Classic Rock to EDM. I can't believe these are $12 IEM's.
  
 The soundstage is enormous. I can hear the music all the way from my eyes to the very back of my neck. It's like being in a room with Jimi Hendrix while recording. Outstanding. I'm sitting here smiling.
  
 If you plugged these into a proper amp with a proper vinyl setup, I wouldn't doubt you'd cry at the clarity and detali.
  
*In Order:*
 ZST
 Philips SHE3590
 ATE
 ED12
  
 Over to the ED12's soon!


----------



## khighly

ED12's are hot garbage. There's nothing above 6k. It's like listening to AM radio in a car. That's all I'm going to say.


----------



## Mellowship

khighly said:


> ED12's are hot garbage. There's nothing above 6k. It's like listening to AM radio in a car. That's all I'm going to say.


 
  
 They are absolute crap indeed, in sound and build quality. A quick check: does your pair of ED12 have a gap between the earpieces and the black lids? I am unsure if that gap in my ED12s is a ventilation system, or if it is a defect... I can clearly listen to the sound escaping through that gap... 
  
 The only good thing about them are the star-type silicone tips. Just save those and use them in another pair of IEMs!


----------



## khighly

mellowship said:


> They are absolute crap indeed, in sound and build quality. A quick check: does your pair of ED12 have a gap between the earpieces and the black lids? I am unsure if that gap in my ED12s is a ventilation system, or if it is a defect... I can clearly listen to the sound escaping through that gap...
> 
> The only good thing about them are the star-type silicone tips. Just save those and use them in another pair of IEMs!


 

 Yep! It has the gap I can see through. Maybe I'll put some glue on there and see if it helps at all. One of them also has a really bad 2 prong contact for the wire.

 The cable is a good salvage as well!


----------



## Mellowship

khighly said:


> Yep! It has the gap I can see through. Maybe I'll put some glue on there and see if it helps at all. One of them also has a really bad 2 prong contact for the wire.
> 
> The cable is a good salvage as well!


 
  
 I taped it, but the sound remained crappy... 
 Yep, the cable is nice... Unfortunately does not fit the ZS3...


----------



## B9Scrambler

khighly said:


> ED12's are hot garbage. There's nothing above 6k. It's like listening to AM radio in a car. That's all I'm going to say.


 
  
 They certainly are pretty mediocre. Safe to say they're not a top tier KZ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Same wack @$$ tuning on these ones...


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Just got my ATR in the mail.  Took 16 days to get here.  Impressions and pictures coming up soon.
  
 First impressions: Pretty damn good.  This one has a chance of beating my Piston Colorful, my go-to $5 iem.
  
 edit: the foam tips might be my favorite sounding but the quality on them is garbage.  sigh.  One almost got stuck in my ear when I took the IEM out lol.
  
 edit 2: pics uploaded.


----------



## chaiyuta

khighly said:


> I got the ZST's about an hour and a half ago.
> 
> *WOW!*
> 
> ...


 
 I remember that you bought both ZST black and ZST purple. This one you wrote is ZST black, isn't it?


----------



## khighly

chaiyuta said:


> I remember that you bought both ZST black and ZST purple. This one you wrote is ZST black, isn't it?


 

 I do not have the purple yet. They were backordered. I'll update when they arrive, Sorry!


----------



## ext23

What would be the best KZ headphone to wear while jogging? I want a fun V-shaped sound!


----------



## fonkepala

khighly said:


> I got the ZST's about an hour and a half ago.
> 
> *WOW!*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whoaaa..another positive impression on the ZST! Considering that some think they're sub par & yet others say they're really great, I'm wondering if early batches of the ZST had QC problems or were made by another manufacturer?
  
 I might be tempted to get one 
  


sometechnoob said:


> edit: the foam tips might be my favorite sounding but the quality on them is garbage.  sigh.  One almost got stuck in my ear when I took the IEM out lol.


 
  
 I wouldn't touch those KZ foam tips with a 10 foot pole.


----------



## CoiL

sometechnoob said:


> Just got my ATR in the mail.  Took 16 days to get here.  Impressions and pictures coming up soon.
> 
> First impressions: Pretty damn good.  This one has a chance of beating my Piston Colorful, my go-to $5 iem.
> 
> edit: the foam tips might be my favorite sounding but the quality on them is garbage.  sigh.  One almost got stuck in my ear when I took the IEM out lol.


 
 Slap on KZ "starline" silicone tips on them and use deep fit if You can  And if You find bass/percussion littlebit "soft-hitting" for Your taste, then close nozzle port holes - bass/percussion slam will get tighter, harder hitting, very well controlled and detailed. My impression and suggestion to close port holes only goes along with starline tips as they will tame slightly increased bass level/presence caused by port holes closing.


----------



## hoerlurar

fonkepala said:


> Whoaaa..another positive impression on the ZST! Considering that some think they're sub par & yet others say they're really great, I'm wondering if early batches of the ZST had QC problems or were made by another manufacturer?
> 
> I might be tempted to get one


 
  
 it would be interesting if someone could compare a 'good' ZST with a 'bad' ZST, that way we could see if there's major QC problems/batch variations or not...


----------



## fonkepala

hoerlurar said:


> it would be interesting if someone could compare a 'good' ZST with a 'bad' ZST, that way we could see if there's major QC problems/batch variations or not...


 
  
 Agreed. Not sure if someone here has both, though.


----------



## fonkepala

khighly said:


> I got the ZST's about an hour and a half ago.
> 
> *WOW!*
> 
> ...


 
  
 I forgot to ask, sorry if you've mentioned this before..but mind sharing where you bought the ZST from?


----------



## hoerlurar

fonkepala said:


> Agreed. Not sure if someone here has both, though.


 
 at least khighly will be able to compare a black to a purple one when it arrives.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

coil said:


> Slap on KZ "starline" silicone tips on them and use deep fit if You can  And if You find bass/percussion littlebit "soft-hitting" for Your taste, then close nozzle port holes - bass/percussion slam will get tighter, harder hitting, very well controlled and detailed. My impression and suggestion to close port holes only goes along with starline tips as they will tame slightly increased bass level/presence caused by port holes closing.


 
 I was looking into the starline tips earlier.  For now I've settled on the small size rubber tips included in the box for now.  It's only $1 but I'm kind of lazy at the moment.  I could be 1/5 of the way toward another ATR haha!
  
 The sound differences are relatively minimal between all the tips, so I think I can make do with the small tips.  I tried putting on the tips that come with the Xiaomi Piston 3 and they seem a little bit more comfortable since they are softer rubber.
  
 --------------------------------
  
 I've been listening to these for over 10 hours straight now, and here are my impressions for the ATR.  Of course, they will probably change over the next week.
  
 Sound is a mild V shape.  I find the sound from these very similar to the Piston 3 with a little bit more sub bass.  They are by no means bassy IEMs, but they have punch and rumble when called for.  Midrange is pleasant to listen to and the treble isn't as pronounced as something that can come from the Monk+ or my full size SHP9500.  As a result it feels like they lose a bit of crispness on some instruments but are overall much smoother and less fatiguing to listen to.
  
 Pop music on this really brings the bass out btw.  Very fun to listen to.
  
 Comfort on this IEM is a little bit lacking.  The rubber tips are pretty stiff from what I'm used to(maybe they'll break in, idk), and the plastic housing is a bit large.  I have a habit of wiggling my ears up and down and the housing will poke the insides occasionally.  Having these in for 3+ hours and I'll begin to feel them.  That said, I've had them in for 8hrs straight at this point and it isn't unbearable.  This is also the first pair of over-ear IEM which I've worn, and I found microphonics to be much better when compared to the Piston 3 and any other earbuds with down-facing wires.
  
 Also, while they are 16Ohm impedance, I find they require a similar amount of power when compared to my 32Ohm IEMs, e.g. Xiaomi Piston 3/Colorful.  The noise floor on my DACports don't go up significantly when using this IEM, which is nice.  They also sound excellent out of my HTC One M9.
  
 If you are looking for a over-ear IEM for $5, this is definitely a great pick.  I might slightly prefer the Piston Colorfuls to these since they are lighter and more comfortable, but only marginally so.  Piston Colorfuls have more emphasis on highs and less bass.  I'll grab these off my desk if I want a bassier profile for the day.
  
 Now - two more weeks of waiting for my ED9 and ZS3.


----------



## gemmoglock

khighly said:


> I got the ZST's about an hour and a half ago.
> 
> *WOW!*
> 
> ...


 
 Nice keep us posted on how the ZST develops over time! Mine are delayed at China warehouse sigh....
  
 Could you share with us how you find the bass quantity/quality and treble extension/smoothness? The demo I had had too much bass and too grainy treble but if it's okay to you maybe I will try it out instead of selling it LOL. Currently on my ZS3 with silver cables


----------



## Muskyhunter

I find my zst so so..vocal seems muddy, soundstage is nice though.


----------



## loomisjohnson

ext23 said:


> What would be the best KZ headphone to wear while jogging? I want a fun V-shaped sound!


zs3 should do you well


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> zs3 should do you well


 

 Podster approves this message


----------



## Mellowship

podster said:


> Podster approves this message


 
 x2


----------



## Ruben123

I dont! While the ZS3 fits extremely well, it isolates a lot too: not very handy to not hear your surroundings while jogging.


----------



## khighly

fonkepala said:


> Whoaaa..another positive impression on the ZST! Considering that some think they're sub par & yet others say they're really great, I'm wondering if early batches of the ZST had QC problems or were made by another manufacturer?
> 
> I might be tempted to get one




They really are phenomenal. What I said still stands. If you listen to high quality audio that was properly recorded, these really shine.



fonkepala said:


> I forgot to ask, sorry if you've mentioned this before..but mind sharing where you bought the ZST from?



Pricey but worth it. Can always return it as well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LXX5J09/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1



gemmoglock said:


> Nice keep us posted on how the ZST develops over time! Mine are delayed at China warehouse sigh....
> 
> Could you share with us how you find the bass quantity/quality and treble extension/smoothness? The demo I had had too much bass and too grainy treble but if it's okay to you maybe I will try it out instead of selling it LOL. Currently on my ZS3 with silver cables



I personally think everything is well balanced. The bass is very...there & forward...but it doesn't overpower anything. It will gladly take a spot in the back of the song and let everything else come through. It may be slightly overpowered for some though. It's smooth and precise like I've never heard from IEM's before. 

The mids are excellent, they pop and are clear. Vocals sound excellent unlike the ATE's.

The highs don't seem to be grainy, but I'll listen some more today. Highs extend to the limits of my hearing.

Crystal clear and well balanced. A very full sound. Everything is presented and it's great.

These ZST's came in the new packaging by the way.


----------



## Keller1

The ZST actually allows you to listen to different parts of the track by just focusing on them.

 Also, does anyone have actual real-life photos of the purple ZST?


----------



## wastan

loomisjohnson said:


> zs3 should do you well




Second this, it's a very fun sound.


----------



## dilidani

podster said:


> Podster approves this message


 
 Buddy! Any sound signature change with new cable? Mine with stock cable sounds pretty off. Lack of everything, i mean, not bass heavy, but doesnt have mids or treble either, its strange. Tried loads of tips. Now using them with new KZ starlines, they are kinda decent on em.


----------



## khighly

dilidani said:


> Buddy! Any sound signature change with new cable? Mine with stock cable sounds pretty off. Lack of everything, i mean, not bass heavy, but doesnt have mids or treble either, its strange. Tried loads of tips. Now using them with new KZ starlines, they are kinda decent on em.




There is no scientific basis for sound changes with different cables. From coat hangers to $8000 cables infused with gold & nitrogen, they all sound the same. Any perceived differences are simply a placebo effect.

The silver wire is only an upgrade in physical quality.


----------



## dilidani

Ah too bad. So many great expressions about the KZ ZS3 but they are pretty much useless for me, maybe I have a defective couple, dunno.


----------



## toddy0191

dilidani said:


> Ah too bad. So many great expressions about the KZ ZS3 but they are pretty much useless for me, maybe I have a defective couple, dunno.




Check you've got the cable connected the right way round as I had the letters facing in and they sounded wrong. 

Turned them around and they sounded much better.


----------



## dilidani

toddy0191 said:


> Check you've got the cable connected the right way round as I had the letters facing in and they sounded wrong.
> 
> Turned them around and they sounded much better.



Oh man.... God bless you!!!


----------



## Ruben123

Makes me think if the bad sounding zsts are not well wired perhaps


----------



## dilidani

Totally! Everyone should try connecting it the other way if they experience bad sound, amazing! My zs3 is so sensitive to mastering quality..wow! Using Samsung Galaxy S4, poweramp, starline tips on the iem.


----------



## To.M

True, the cables connected correctly as well as placing earphones correctly, they have no left right markings,so their pointy tip should be directed downwards and then a good seal, in my case the biggest starline tips, these are necessary factors to get a good sound from ZST


----------



## khighly

Shouldn't they be exactly like this?


----------



## To.M

Yeah, the tip pointed downwards, at the beginning I wore them upside down, silly me


----------



## Mish23

Hi!
  
 Someone can tell me what's the difference between KZ ATE and KZ ATR
 I read some pages in this thread, but i don't found this information...
  
 Thanks you!


----------



## khighly

mish23 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Someone can tell me what's the difference between KZ ATE and KZ ATR
> I read some pages in this thread, but i don't found this information...
> ...


 

 ATR is the newer version of the ATE's. I think they're tuned differently. The ATE's are not very good, but I've heard the ATR's are fairly good.


----------



## Mish23

Thanks for your answer, i have found this awesome price for ATR 4$ !!  : http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html?vip=550520
  
 (56 pieces left at this time)
  
 Do you think is genuine?
  
 Thx


----------



## B9Scrambler

khighly said:


> ATR is the newer version of the ATE's. I think they're tuned differently. The ATE's are not very good, but I've heard the ATR's are fairly good.




Imo both are very good. The ATR has essentially the same signature as the ATE but with better extension at either end and a bit more treble energy. The differences are small but add up to a more competent and well-rounded earphone.


----------



## Comebackboy

khighly said:


> They really are phenomenal. What I said still stands. If you listen to high quality audio that was properly recorded, these really shine.
> Pricey but worth it. Can always return it as well.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LXX5J09/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


 
 Surprised to hear someone say that the vocals on the ZST are excellent. For me, the vocals were the main issue. It was so grainy, compared to the ZS3. Especially female vocals. But I have to agree with everything else - the rest is pretty good for the price point if you like the heavy bass. I personally find it a bit too much but if it suits you, it's really good. Soundstage is pretty impressive too.
  
 Maybe its the QC issue, I bought one of the earlier batches. Wonder if the new ones are tuned differently.


----------



## Lorspeaker

just beginning to get into these KTstuff...
 where shld i put my bet$$ on, confusing, 
 this looks gorgeous.


----------



## xanlamin

lorspeaker said:


> just beginning to get into these KTstuff...
> where shld i put my bet$$ on, confusing,
> this looks gorgeous.


 
  
 I'm about to place an order for KS3. Where did you find this newly designed cable?


----------



## Lorspeaker

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ZS3-In-Ear-Earphone-Stereo-Headset-Noise-Cancelling-Replaced-Wire-HIFI-Earbuds-Support-wholesale/32766336193.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.1.jdPAKK&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=bb919515-1dc3-4840-8a2e-93b604955ad1&tpp=1
  
 copied foto from this page...not sure if the purchase option includes that "new" cable..
 i am still in a maze


----------



## xanlamin

lorspeaker said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-ZS3-In-Ear-Earphone-Stereo-Headset-Noise-Cancelling-Replaced-Wire-HIFI-Earbuds-Support-wholesale/32766336193.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.1.jdPAKK&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=bb919515-1dc3-4840-8a2e-93b604955ad1&tpp=1
> 
> copied foto from this page...not sure if the purchase option includes that "new" cable..
> i am still in a maze


 
 Thanks, Gearbest is cheaper.
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21


----------



## Shawn71

xanlamin said:


> Thanks, Gearbest is cheaper.
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21




But you asked for the seller who sells with that new cable?......So GB selling same piece as the seller from ali?


----------



## Euljiro

I might have gotten the 'good' ZSTs then. I like them quite a bit. Just got the ATR a few days ago, while the ATRs are an improvement over the ATEs, both still sound very very laid back. Smooth as hell, but sounds so lazy. ZSTs have better bass extension, vocals and highs sound pretty decent. I think I will sell the ATEs and the ZS3s. ATRs and ZSTs are keepers for me.


----------



## xanlamin

shawn71 said:


> But you asked for the seller who sells with that new cable?......So GB selling same piece as the seller from ali?


 
  
 Can't tell really, I think they are probably the same.


----------



## khighly

The ZST's are slightly frustrating. Only because everything sounds like I'm sitting in a room with the artists. Sometimes I can't tell if one of the headphones just died because of the enormous stereo separation and soundstage. It's mind blowing.


----------



## Shawn71

xanlamin said:


> Can't tell really, I think they are probably the same.




Yeah ok,coz they all come with memory wire nor I cld see any difference......


----------



## Lorspeaker

khighly said:


> The ZST's are slightly frustrating. Only because everything sounds like I'm sitting in a room with the artists. Sometimes I can't tell if one of the headphones just died because of the enormous stereo separation and soundstage. It's mind blowing.


 
  
 errr....immersive...?


----------



## khighly

lorspeaker said:


> errr....immersive...?


 
  
 VR for your ears.


----------



## rikk009

khighly said:


> The ZST's are slightly frustrating. Only because everything sounds like I'm sitting in a room with the artists. Sometimes I can't tell if one of the headphones just died because of the enormous stereo separation and soundstage. It's mind blowing.


 
 Which seller you bought from?


----------



## Shinry

Hello!
 The curiosity got me and I ordered ATR and ZS3 on Gearsbest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I wonder if they will suit my music even better than my last Go-To InEar ED2.
  
 Greetings


----------



## To.M

Lorspeaker buy ZST from GB, for 13usd they are a good bargain



khighly said:


> VR for your ears.



Exactly, all my other earphones sound flat when I switch from ZST, however, they shine only when I have a good seal otherwise they may sound a bit muddy. It's all about tips with ZST! 



comebackboy said:


> Surprised to hear someone say that the vocals on the ZST are excellent. For me, the vocals were the main issue. It was so grainy, compared to the ZS3. Especially female vocals. But I have to agree with everything else - the rest is pretty good for the price point if you like the heavy bass. I personally find it a bit too much but if it suits you, it's really good. Soundstage is pretty impressive too.




Bass is not very heavy, it is deep when necessary but it is not basshead level and it is doesn't overflow into other frequencies (again, with a good seal and proper tips).

P.s.
Here is the best review of them I've found:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/B01LZIPN4Q/RKJN9WED56MK/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_rvw_1?ie=UTF8&cursor=1


----------



## Comebackboy

to.m said:


> @Lorspeaker buy ZST from GB, for 13usd they are a good bargain
> Exactly, all my other earphones sound flat when I switch from ZST, however, they shine only when I have a good seal otherwise they may sound a bit muddy. It's all about tips with ZST!
> Bass is not very heavy, it is deep when necessary but it is not basshead level and it is doesn't overflow into other frequencies (again, with a good seal and proper tips).
> 
> ...


 
 Idk maybe I got a defective one. Bass is a bit too much for and tends to overpower the highs on bass-heavy songs.
 And I'm even using the silver plated cable. I guess it's a personal preference, I just prefer the ZS3's sound over the ZST. Sounds cleaner imo.
  
 Though in no way am I saying the ZST is bad (except the vocals on mine), still a real bang for buck.


----------



## Mish23

Hi,
  
 someone receive true kz from gearbest ? ATR for 4$!?
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html?vip=550520
  
 Thx


----------



## B9Scrambler

Gearbest's KZ's are legit and nearly always priced very competitively with AliExpress.


----------



## Keller1

Do fake KZs even exist?


----------



## B9Scrambler

keller1 said:


> Do fake KZs even exist?


 
  
 Probably not. Doesn't seem like it would be worth the time and effort for something already so darn inexpensive.


----------



## VShaft

A few questions regarding the KZ ZSx series.
  
 The KZ ZS1 are dual-drivers, so are the ZS2. But the ZS3 is single-driver. At least by looking at the pictures it seems so. And ZST is a hybrid. Did I get it correctly?
  
 I'm really new to the whole dual-driver/hybrid thing, so perhaps someone with experience can help me. Is the difference in sound between single- and dual-drivers that noticeable? I've never listened to dual-drivers, so I'm pretty curious. And what about dual-drivers compared to hybrids?


----------



## Shawn71

vshaft said:


> A few questions regarding the KZ ZSx series.
> 
> The KZ ZS1 are dual-drivers, so are the ZS2. But the ZS3 is single-driver. At least by looking at the pictures it seems so. And ZST is a hybrid. Did I get it correctly?
> 
> I'm really new to the whole dual-driver/hybrid thing, so perhaps someone with experience can help me. Is the difference in sound between single- and dual-drivers that noticeable? I've never listened to dual-drivers, so I'm pretty curious. And what about dual-drivers compared to hybrids?




Yes you are correct about ZSx series and there was this ZN series before these, ZN with a built-in tiny amp between the ear pieces and 3.5mm jack & the ZN mini w/o the amp......The shell designof ZN were retained on the ZS series, and so the dual drivers. Btw,there's a dual hybrid model from KZ by name ZST.(ZST pro is just a color variation of the ZST shells)

And in short about the single driver or hybrids or multi drivers, - It doesnt mean a single dynamic driver cant sound like a dual/triple hybrids or a multi BA monitors NOR a multi driver phones always sounds good than a single dynamic monitors,imo!


----------



## actorlife

Not sure if they are well liked, but Kz Ed10 $9.99 on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Running-Headphones-One-button-Control-Microphone/dp/B0186VB9TK/ref=sr_1_17?srs=11865587011&ie=UTF8&qid=1479575043&sr=8-17


----------



## B9Scrambler

actorlife said:


> Not sure if they are well liked, but Kz Ed10 $9.99 on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Running-Headphones-One-button-Control-Microphone/dp/B0186VB9TK/ref=sr_1_17?srs=11865587011&ie=UTF8&qid=1479575043&sr=8-17


 
  
 Yup, ED10 are quite good. Very similar in signature and capabilities to the ED9 with Gold filters installed, and way more comfortable for my ears. I personally find their treble quality to be a step up both in refinement and detail, but not everyone shares that opinion.


----------



## khighly

Are the SpinFits worth it? 100 or 800 size?


----------



## harry501501

khighly said:


> Are the SpinFits worth it? 100 or 800 size?


 
 Depends what set you're thinking of using them on. i find them difficult to use on the KZ series as the nozzle tends to be too long and the spinfits are tight fitting and designed to sit on the end of the nozzle (when possible) for even deeper insertion.
  
 Whenever I've used them it tends to tighten everything up, reduce bass a little (but sometimes improving resolution) and they add detail a lot of the time upper mids. with KZ's i've never used them, i use foams practically every time. They could take some of the bass bloat out i suppose.


----------



## harry501501

mish23 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Someone can tell me what's the difference between KZ ATE and KZ ATR
> I read some pages in this thread, but i don't found this information...
> ...


 
  
 They are both really good and for the price excellent. ATE is 'bigger sounding', big bass (lots of fun) only occasionally bloated, decent amount of detail in the mids and tame highs, still with enough detail as to enjoy. nice smooth sound, vocals forward. A fun sound.
  
 The ATR is a little more balanced with bit more detail, bass still big but not at the same level as ATE. Mids and highs have bit more clarity compared to the ATE, especially highs which have bit moer sparkle.. Still smooth sounding. 
  
 Both are very musical and fun and for the money you pay you get a real bargain. neither are anywhere close to fatiguing.
  
 My preference is the ATR.


----------



## Ruben123

So my brother and I got a nice idea. Get one of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Wireless-Bluetooth-Earphone-Music-Stereo-Neckband-Sport-Headset-Handsfree-With-MIC-Bass-Sound-Earphones-For/32747043960.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10100_10096_10070_423_10052_10050_424_10051,searchweb201603_2&btsid=b888361a-647a-4d44-bf5f-c00ee9ebcc67
  
 Cut off the earphones, and cut some nicer earphones too (such as earphone with broken 3.5mm jack) and solder it together. Then you have a cheap bluetooth, good sounding earphone!


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> So my brother and I got a nice idea. Get one of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-Wireless-Bluetooth-Earphone-Music-Stereo-Neckband-Sport-Headset-Handsfree-With-MIC-Bass-Sound-Earphones-For/32747043960.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10100_10096_10070_423_10052_10050_424_10051,searchweb201603_2&btsid=b888361a-647a-4d44-bf5f-c00ee9ebcc67
> 
> Cut off the earphones, and cut some nicer earphones too (such as earphone with broken 3.5mm jack) and solder it together. Then you have a cheap bluetooth, good sounding earphone!


 
  
@Ruben123 apt-X support and under 5 USD? Huh. Really curious to see more of the specs on those. I'm sure they're probably not that good, but what you and your bro proposed is a neat idea, especially if it works well. I've got a pair of ED8 that are in need of a donor cable.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> @Ruben123 apt-X support and under 5 USD? Huh. Really curious to see more of the specs on those. I'm sure they're probably not that good, but what you and your bro proposed is a neat idea, especially if it works well. I've got a pair of ED8 that are in need of a donor cable.


 

 Dont know much about BT, used it to send some photos over from phone to phone back in the days and my mouse also is BT. Dont really know more, but if it works, it would be great!


----------



## Glebuzzz

Can someone comare KZ ZS3 and Paiaudio DR1?


----------



## loomisjohnson

been spending some more time with the zs3 and i could swear the treble is opening up--i'm hearing more microdetail/resolution. it's not inconceivable that there's some placebo or psychological adjustment going on, but they do seem to be getting better....


----------



## khighly

Nice.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

boop


----------



## khighly

Revisiting the ATE's and getting a proper seal this time.

They are darker than the ZST's. There isn't much to be desired on the high end. The mids are pretty good. The lows are much too heavy and get in the way, but are mostly clean. The ATE lows are more heavy than the ZST by a considerable amount. They have a decently wide soundstage. They feel more like a really warm maybe 60's - 70's rock feel.

They're good, but nothing really sticks out except for how they look.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I switched the wire from going over-ear to simply going straight down, and I find the ATR infinitely more comfortable.  More microphonics, but sound is about the same.  They do look pretty dumb since they protrude pretty far out of your ears, though.


----------



## Griffith

I received my KZ ATE last week and gave them a few days until the "honeymoon" period ended to try to give some impressions.
  
 I don't usually spend a lot of money on earphones. For many years I bought the cheapest ones I could find, random Sony earbuds when I had a bit more money, and then I read an article one day about this new, to me, brand that could give me much better sound quality for the same amount of money I was paying: Sennheiser.
  
 Since them, my earphones have been almost all exclusively Sennheiser and the last earphone I bought during that journey was the CX200 which died recently. I did occasionally get gifted or tried earbuds from other brands, but the CX200 had a pleasant sound I appreciated and earphones from other brands like AKG, Panasonic, Sony, Apple didn't even come close to an appreciable sound.
  
 With the CX200's connector broken, I realized I had no replacements that wouldn't make my ears vomit so I decided to order a bunch of different headphones from various chinese manufacturers, the KZ ATE were the first that arrived. The first thing that struck me about these earphones was their clarity. I quickly picked up the CX200 and tried to get it to play some music through it's broken connector to compare the two and to my ears the ATE was able to resolve a lot more details than the Sennheiser could. The Sennheiser had a pleasant warm sound that I had grown accustomed to and the KZ ATE feels lighter and less congested sounding.
  
 The vocals in the KZ ATE are a bit of a mixed bag. Until now I've been unable to determined whether they are recessed or whether they are less prominent because of all the additional details I can pick up on most tracks. They don't feel recessed except when there is a lot of additional detail playing at the same time. So far the KZ ATE has been able to handle every song I've thrown at it respectfully. Even some albums that I've used repeatedly to bring bad earphones to their knees sound pleasant.
  
 Imaging is also surprisingly decent, which is something I had never experienced to the ATE's level with previous earphones. That aspect of them actually caught me off guard. I was listening to one of Yoko Kanno's album, to a track called "Von" and the strings that start playing about a third of your way in literally snuck up on me as if they had encroached from behind the singer's voice.
  
 Now, I understand that to other more experienced audiophiles who've used higher-end earphones this post might seem amusing, and I'm certain there are much better earphones in the market, but to me the KZ ATE are like those first Sennheiser earbuds that lifted my expectations and made, since then, chase increasingly better audio fidelity.
  
 I will try to write a less colored impression of them on the review section once I receive my other orders, I have on order the KZ ZS3, KZ ZST, KZ ED9 and the Tenmak Pro. If there are any others within a similar price point (around or under $20) please let me know. I do intend to make an impression of all of them side by side when I receive them all. I'll also do an impression between the KZ HDSE (Bluetooth earphones), the Tenmak Pro with it's Bluetooth cable accessory, the Sony SBH80 and the Plantronics Backbeat Go.


----------



## Griffith

sometechnoob said:


> I switched the wire from going over-ear to simply going straight down, and I find the ATR infinitely more comfortable.  More microphonics, but sound is about the same.  They do look pretty dumb since they protrude pretty far out of your ears, though.


 
  
 Yeah I agree, that's definitely one of the worst aspects of the ATE (which I think share the same shape as the ATR). I tried putting on my motorcycle helmet with them but nope... that's not going to happen 
  
 With that said, I couldn't give two cents about how silly they look in public when they sound as good as they do. I'd even use the purple ZST in public, provided they're as good as some people on this thread say they are.


----------



## Ruben123

griffith said:


> Yeah I agree, that's definitely one of the worst aspects of the ATE (which I think share the same shape as the ATR). I tried putting on my motorcycle helmet with them but nope... that's not going to happen
> 
> With that said, I couldn't give two cents about how silly they look in public when they sound as good as they do. I'd even use the purple ZST in public, provided they're as good as some people on this thread say they are.


 

 If you live in the USA, the Monoprice 8320 is an excellent choice. Abnormal clarity and a very balanced sound with a beautiful mid range and a big sound stage and not only for their asking price.


----------



## Griffith

ruben123 said:


> If you live in the USA, the Monoprice 8320 is an excellent choice. Abnormal clarity and a very balanced sound with a beautiful mid range and a big sound stage and not only for their asking price.


 
  
 I'm afraid I do not, I'm European but their price certainly seems reasonable. If I'm able to find a reasonable way to import them I'll try to. I'm also eyeing Viewsonic's VS3DS... despite being over $20 they seem to be very well regarded.


----------



## To.M

griffith said:


> I have on order the KZ ZS3, KZ ZST, KZ ED9 and the Tenmak Pro. If there are any others within a similar price point (around or under $20) please let me know.




Ok my suggestions are: Joyroom E107, Urbanfun, Somic V4, VJJB K4, DZAT DF-10

Try earbuds too, they are cheap and great now: VE Monk Plus, Qian25, Qian39, Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm


----------



## Lorspeaker

KZ ED12....any quick word on it?   (  ..vs KTR.....which is a better buy... so many choices..confusing )


----------



## Griffith

to.m said:


> Ok my suggestions are: Joyroom E107, Urbanfun, Somic V4, VJJB K4, DZAT DF-10
> 
> Try earbuds too, they are cheap and great now: VE Monk Plus, Qian25, Qian39, Ty Hi-Z 32 ohm


 
  
 Would you mind giving me some short impressions on why I should try them outside of "they're cheap and sound good"? I've heard of the Monk Plus, but none of the others.


----------



## To.M

Forget ED12, nobody recommends them here, choose from ate/atr, zs3, zst, ed9


----------



## VShaft

shawn71 said:


> Yes you are correct about ZSx series and there was this ZN series before these, ZN with a built-in tiny amp between the ear pieces and 3.5mm jack & the ZN mini w/o the amp......The shell designof ZN were retained on the ZS series, and so the dual drivers. Btw,there's a dual hybrid model from KZ by name ZST.(ZST pro is just a color variation of the ZST shells)
> 
> And in short about the single driver or hybrids or multi drivers, - It doesnt mean a single dynamic driver cant sound like a dual/triple hybrids or a multi BA monitors NOR a multi driver phones always sounds good than a single dynamic monitors,imo!


 

 Thanks, Shawn71. I was familiar with the ZN1 and their included amp. I'm mainly interested in the ZSx series, however.
  
 I'm someone who's fresh from his new (and first) KZ purchase, and that's the ATE-s. But the ZSx has piqued my interested. So, if you - forum members - had to pick one of these models for your next purchase, which one would it be - ZS1, ZS2, ZS3 or ZST? *Which one would be the most interesting to listen to after the ATE-S?*


----------



## B9Scrambler

vshaft said:


> ZS1, ZS2, ZS3 or ZST? *Which one would be the most interesting to listen to after the ATE-S?*


 
  
 The ZS1 and ZS2 are complete bass monsters. Lots of fun. The ampless version of the ZN1 with an amp, the ZN1 Mini, is basically the same as the current version of the ZS1/2 but with a really short cable. The ZS3 is similar to the AT series, but a little bassier. Still a good listen, though possibly somewhat redundant coming from the ATE-S. Haven't heard the ZST yet. Come on Canada post!! 
  
 Personally, I say get the ZS1 because it will be the biggest shift from the ATE. Just go at them with an open mind. They're not technical specialists, simply entertaining.


----------



## chaiyuta

Upcoming ZST Pro 10 BA drivers. High jump from KZ's 2-drivers models.


----------



## crabdog

chaiyuta said:


> Upcoming ZST Pro 10 BA drivers. High jump from KZ's 2-drivers models.


 
 Holy What! Wow that is a serious departure from their regular lineup. Where did you find this?


----------



## B9Scrambler

chaiyuta said:


> Upcoming ZST Pro 10 BA drivers. High jump from KZ's 2-drivers models.


 
  
 I'm in! Need more info! Google-foo engaged. 
  
 Edit: Is it the ZSR Pro or ZST Pro, because it shows both on the box, haha!


----------



## To.M

What?!? KZ is definitely going wild 
Probably they can't decide on a name yet


----------



## chaiyuta

Based on rumour I heard, coming soon 2017. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


to.m said:


> What?!? KZ is definitely going wild
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  

 KZ may named "King of Zeus" hahaha. (Joking aside)


----------



## Lorspeaker

the whole buying equation has CHANGED....just cleared my shopping cart;
  
 10drivers.......??!!?  muackssss


----------



## Shawn71

to.m said:


> What?!? KZ is definitely going wild
> Probably they can't decide on a name yet




lol yeah.....they allotted a pit for comply too,next to silicon tips, never seen that before for any IEMs,atleast me.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, might need to give that one a look.  Also as I can't quite remember, what's the thoughts on the ZST Pro's performance?  The normal one, not the 10 driver version.


----------



## Ruben123

It will either cost a lot more or is a ZSR 10 with BA driver(s). Just like ZS3 dynamic drivers. No 10 speakers I mean.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

I wonder what colour those 10 driver KZ headphones will be....  And at what cost.


----------



## robervaul

I'm considering that these 10 drivers are actually 4ba+1dd each side due to the shell's size. 
DT2+ uses dual ba in its little body.


----------



## pashhtk27

I would have loved to see a 2ba+1dd model instead of whatever monstrosity this is. This won't be cheap enough to impulse buy!


----------



## Podster

Same here, I think KZ may be going overboard on a 10 BA iem. This would be a untested leap from the ZST!


----------



## MaggotBasshead

What do yall think of these XS3, ZS2, ZS1, ZST, ED12
  
 I currently have ED9, ATE and ZN1 but only use the ATE due to them bring the only practical ones
 What is general opinion on them and which would be the best upgrade from ATE
 I've been out of the game for quite a few months lol
  
  
  
 I listen to all genres of music from Extreme heavy metal (Death metal, core etc)to Rap (wu tang, Eminem) and all sorts of stuff inbetween


----------



## Podster

Thought I answered this one in my last post. Out of your selection I think the ZST will be the biggest change from the ATE


----------



## MaggotBasshead

podster said:


> Thought I answered this one in my last post. Out of your selection I think the ZST will be the biggest change from the ATE


 
 So what about the ZS3 compared to the ATE?
  
 What's the highest quality?


----------



## mehrdadb3

pleast tell me which is better for buy kz zs3 or kz atr


----------



## B9Scrambler

maggotbasshead said:


> So what about the ZS3 compared to the ATE?
> 
> What's the highest quality?


 
  
  


mehrdadb3 said:


> pleast tell me which is better for buy kz zs3 or kz atr


 
  
 What are your preferences? What type of music do you listen to? What is best to one person might not be best to you. I think the ATR is the better of the two due to a more balanced and detailed sound. You might want a little more bass though, and the benefit of removable cables, so in that case the ZS3 would better suit your needs. Also, skip the ATE unless you like the look more. The ATR is essentially the same just slightly more refined.


----------



## MaggotBasshead




----------



## To.M

podster said:


> Thought I answered this one in my last post. Out of your selection I think the ZST will be the biggest change from the ATE




I share this recommendation, owning both ATE and ZST I can say that while I like ATE, ZST is a class higher.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

b9scrambler said:


> What are your preferences? What type of music do you listen to? What is best to one person might not be best to you. I think the ATR is the better of the two due to a more balanced and detailed sound. You might want a little more bass though, and the benefit of removable cables, so in that case the ZS3 would better suit your needs. Also, skip the ATE unless you like the look more. The ATR is essentially the same just slightly more refined.


 
 Its specified in my last post
  
 Anything from Slamming Brutal Death Metal, Rap, Nu Metal, Dubstep. That sort of thing


----------



## MuZo2

chaiyuta said:


> Upcoming ZST Pro 10 BA drivers. High jump from KZ's 2-drivers models.


 
 I think its going to be those Shure clones in KZ shells.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

How are ZS3 compared to ZST?


----------



## Kerkyboi

Good day KZ peeps!
I have been a lurker of the head-fi community for so many years and just recently decided to register and be part of this wonderful community. I think this is the perfect time for me to dive back in and dig back out the head-fi in me. In the past weeks, I am on the hunt again for a new pair of cans and daily drivers to replace my old partners, found out that the market has been saturated with such amazing bang for the buck products and this brand certainly caught my attention. After all the backreading I've done on this thread, I pulled the trigger on the ZS3 and the ED12 on GearBest. Hopefully the ED12 arrive this coming week and share my thoughts to you guys. Im also eyeing for the ATx line and might buy them after I get my hands on my 1st order. This brand is just too hard to ignore specially with its dirt cheap prices and good looking products, hoping to have good impressions on this first two iems and probably grow back a collection.


----------



## Kefkiroth

Finally received my ED12s, and I'm enjoying them so far compared to the Xiaomi Hybrids I used previously. Mids and vocals seem to be more forward which is a nice change, as the Hybrids were really dark, and took a while to get used to them. I also ordered the newer Hybrid successor (3 drivers), and might also pick up the ZS3 eventually.


----------



## MuZo2

kefkiroth said:


> I also ordered the newer Hybrid successor (3 drivers).


 
 Link?


----------



## To.M

Here it is:
http://s.aliexpress.com/EVRfumeq


----------



## mehrdadb3

b9scrambler said:


> What are your preferences? What type of music do you listen to? What is best to one person might not be best to you. I think the ATR is the better of the two due to a more balanced and detailed sound. You might want a little more bass though, and the benefit of removable cables, so in that case the ZS3 would better suit your needs. Also, skip the ATE unless you like the look more. The ATR is essentially the same just slightly more refined.


 

 then i think select atr for more detail and balanced .
 and realy zs3 just better in bass?
 what about zst?


----------



## Mellowship

kefkiroth said:


> Finally received my ED12s, and I'm enjoying them so far compared to the Xiaomi Hybrids I used previously. Mids and vocals seem to be more forward which is a nice change, as the Hybrids were really dark, and took a while to get used to them. I also ordered the newer Hybrid successor (3 drivers), and might also pick up the ZS3 eventually.


 
  
 I am starting to think I've got a defected pair of ED12s... 
 The mids and vocals "seem" more forward then Xiaomi's? Or are they blowing on your ears like they just came out of those icecream truck speakers? 
 I loathe the ED12... they just remind me of a pair of fake Xiaomi pistons 3 I've been scammed with... the ED12 are not worthy of KZ rep... 
 Or maybe mines are from a salvaged batch... I don't know...


----------



## B9Scrambler

mehrdadb3 said:


> then i think select atr for more detail and balanced .
> and realy zs3 just better in bass?
> what about zst?


 
  
 I wouldn't say the ZS3 is better in the bass, just that they have more prominent bass. Both perform pretty well for cheapo earphones. The ZS3 has more prominent treble which helps make them sound a little more airy, but I feel their soundstage size is pretty close overall. General detail across the board is close too, but I gave the edge to the ATR due to their midrange which I think is their best attribute. In the end they're both stellar performers for the price and you can't go wrong picking one over the other. They just place their emphasis in different areas; ATR more balanced with that sweet AT series midrange; ZS3 more v-shaped with that big ZS series bass. 
  
 Haven't heard the ZST yet unfortunately. Should be coming in this week *fingers crossed*


----------



## B9Scrambler

mellowship said:


> I am starting to think I've got a defected pair of ED12s...
> The mids and vocals "seem" more forward then Xiaomi's? Or are they blowing on your ears like they just came out of those icecream truck speakers?
> I loathe the ED12... they just remind me of a pair of fake Xiaomi pistons 3 I've been scammed with... the ED12 are not worthy of KZ rep...
> Or maybe mines are from a salvaged batch... I don't know...


 
  
 Mine are terrible too. No mid-bass, gobs of sub-bass. Veiled mids. Dull yet somehow well-extended treble. They just sound....wrong, haha.


----------



## blazinblazin

chaiyuta said:


> Upcoming ZST Pro 10 BA drivers. High jump from KZ's 2-drivers models.


 

 This looks like a Campfire Audio shell copy, should be using MMCX cable


----------



## zephyr11

hi all,
  
 been lurking and reading forever, registered long ago but felt I didn't have much to contribute until now.
  
 regarding the ZST, received mine just before the weekend, and tried it and loving it!
  
 this is how much I trusted you guys, bought everything blind. mostly for gifts, quite  a few others for my own "playing" pleasures.
  


IMG_2364 by chewyicecube, on Flickr
  


IMG_2391 by chewyicecube, on Flickr
  


IMG_2365 by chewyicecube, on Flickr
  
 edit:
 opppppps...
  
 don't know how to post a picture here.
  
  
 mini review on the ZST;
  
 I'm coming from a pair of old-ish UM2s (about 4yrs old), felt tired and I think they need some servicing, so I was up looking for temp iems, for while it is on a boat to US get fixed and come back.
  
 using a X3 1st gen as player (3/4yrs old), listen to everything under the sun, jazz, hip hop, edm, trance, rock. .
  
 OOTB ZST with silver cables; I always wondered what is "brighter, darker" and stuff like that. but when I had these on for the first time, I actually understood that. it was brighter,  bass was decent, nothing to shout about. but the clarity, from something that costs me less then 10% of my um2s. I wasn't expecting this. I expected them to be decent/good. but def not THIS good.
  
 I read that it's a myth to burn in heaphones, but I thought it won't harm them if I just let them loop on all types of music. after about 10-15 hrs. I swear they are better. the bass is solid but not muddy, I could hear the vocals, in front of the instruments, not sure what you call/ describe that. and i could close my eyes and diana krall could be on the piano in front of me, and the hair on my back stand. I don't have high standards for music, I DID only have a set of um2s for the last 4 yrs, so take everything with a pinch of salt.
  
 only thing I didn't like;
 the silicone tips, I think it's just me, they just don't fit me well, esp stock ones. not sure why or how. but they just don't work. I'm looking for a replacement silicone tip, but I think I'm better off with foam. though I don't know what fits these, I do have  an older set of comply tips with bigger bore which I have been using but don't think they are they best for these, they don't seal up very well, not sure if it's cos they are old something like that.might try some spinfits, those any good? I might just have to get foam tips from KZ
  
 I will try my best to do some sort of review for all the ones for myself (from the picture). there's ed12, zs3, atr, **** dt2 and some somics. oh yea, not pictured are some monks that just arrived yesterday. if anyone is minutely interested.
  
 sorry for the long post.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

zephyr11 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's possibly a limitation due to having just a single post so far as there are a few restrictions on new accounts that are lifted after a few posts.  Instead of using Flickr's coding, just take the direct image link (I'll use the picture from https://www.flickr.com/photos/22973052@N02/30935886191/ as an example) and then using the editor capabilities in the reply box click the one that looks like a landscape  (hovering over it says "Insert Image") and then in the center enter the URL of the image, click the "Use URL" button, and then choose a size.  Note that the size doesn't affect the original image, it just resizes it for use in the forum, and people can then click on it to see a larger version (or middle click to open it in a new tab at full size).  Medium should give you something like this....
  
 As the inserted image is one of yours, I'll remove it from my post (and image gallery, if it happened to add it to mine) in the next 24 hours as it was simply being used to show how to insert an image on the forum.
 EDIT(Nov21@17:40 MST): Picture removed(end edit)
  
  
 ....Also, people have been BEGGING for pictures of the purple and blue ZST's, so you might want to share those pictures as soon as you can, as your photos of them look rather nice (as do the pics of the mechanical keyboards, but that's another story not for this thread).  Making me regret not having picked up a pair of them back on 11.11.


----------



## Kefkiroth

muzo2 said:


> Link?


http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_566702.html?wid=21
There's also a thread for them: http://www.head-fi.org/t/825485/xiaomi-in-ear-headphones-pro-hd-2-1-hybrid


----------



## khighly

Where's the best place to get the silver cable? I can't find anywhere.


----------



## zephyr11

not sure I fi can post a link here, if not mods please delete.
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-KZ-Cable-2pin-0-75-mm-Upgraded-Silver-Plated-Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-for-KZ/519064_32731535320.html
  
 that one is for zs3,
  
 there's a diff one for zst.
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/af/kz-zst-silver.html?ltype=wholesale&d=y&origin=n&isViewCP=y&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20161120193710&SearchText=kz+zst+silver&blanktest=0


----------



## Shawn71

vshaft said:


> Thanks, Shawn71. I was familiar with the ZN1 and their included amp. I'm mainly interested in the ZSx series, however.
> 
> I'm someone who's fresh from his new (and first) KZ purchase, and that's the ATE-s. But the ZSx has piqued my interested. So, if you - forum members - had to pick one of these models for your next purchase, which one would it be - ZS1, ZS2, ZS3 or ZST? *Which one would be the most interesting to listen to after the ATE-S?*




Ok sure......but I have none of these atm but zs3 in transit so really cant comment. May be b9 was spot-on from where you are coming from.

 And still if I have to pick one of these in question, I wld go for zs3. Otoh, you might want to consider ED9 if its not in your mind yet,imo.


----------



## ScarboroughFair

Hi guys, so how's the ATE vs the ZST? what would u recommend to someone who likes mids and soundstage?


----------



## Ruben123

scarboroughfair said:


> Hi guys, so how's the ATE vs the ZST? what would u recommend to someone who likes mids and soundstage?


 

 Well Ive read quite different opinions on the ZST but the ATE and HDS1 are actually known to have a good mid range. I also think the HDS1's sound stage is quite OK too, but havent heard the ATE too much.


----------



## ScarboroughFair

thanks for the input. how bout the ATR?


----------



## Ruben123

scarboroughfair said:


> thanks for the input. how bout the ATR?


 

 ATR has more bass than HDS1, and less highs. HDS1 is the most detailed and does sound excellent with most music Ive tried them with. ATR could be a *bit *too bassy for some, though it depends on what you like. ATR has wider sound stage I think. I like them both though.


----------



## gvekiaris

*what do you think it is better solution to buy to listen music and talk with my XIAOMI smartphone ?*  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZST-Dynamic-Super-Bass-Music-In-ear-Earphones-Noise-Canceling-HiFi-with-Mic-/282233552969?hash=item41b66e4049:g:Fz8AAOSwx2dYEH06
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kz-ZS3-The-Most-Comfortable-Ergonomic-HIFI-Headphones-Two-Styles-Black-BY-/282200646321?var=&hash=item41b47822b1mhKMkwZsAnSLWoOTUMEb_PQ
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ATR-Noise-Isolating-HiFi-Sports-Stereo-Headphones-Super-Bass-In-Ear-Earphones-/112180617321?var=&hash=item1a1e7c6069mQPAEHmpVNYu-sORbA1IYoQ
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ED12-HIFI-Custom-Style-Detachable-Cable-MP3-Headset-Music-headphones-W-No-Mic-/172386975590?var=&hash=item2823107f66mB7CwfMafyJVTTD4S-Kbv4g
  
 or anyother you could suggest me around 10 USD


----------



## Griffith

scarboroughfair said:


> Hi guys, so how's the ATE vs the ZST? what would u recommend to someone who likes mids and soundstage?




I can only speak about the ATE, my ZST is on order, but it has what I'd consider above average soundstage and good separation. I also very much appreciate the mids, particularly female vocals which sound very smooth and inviting.

The Bass extension isn't the best so some music tracks may sound a bit dry but the clarity is so nice that honestly I don't know if I'd trade it for a warmer or bassier sound. I guess I'll find out soon enough when I receive the ZS3 and ZST.


----------



## Ruben123

I think the Atr is the nicest all-round earphone and the cheapest too


----------



## zephyr11

ZST in crystal color, with silver cables. note they are diff from the zs3 cable, these are angled. i know cos i ordered both. and the guy i bought from highlighted it.
  
 let's give this another shot.
 i i tried the add url option but it doesn't recognize it as a link to the image. not sure why.
 either way, here are the links to close up of the new color.
  
 https://flic.kr/p/P8GuZr
  
 https://flic.kr/p/PiMh7r
  
 https://flic.kr/p/PfC3MC
  
 hope that's close enough! i got yellow light in the room, so i can't get proper colors, sorry about that.
  
  
 aside to WhiteWulfe;
  
  
 good to know that people here care about a proper mech kb, feel free to look around at the album, and let me know if you need any information bout anything.


----------



## Lorspeaker

is there a black color option  on this cable?


----------



## Ruben123

zephyr11 said:


> ZST in crystal color, with silver cables. note they are diff from the zs3 cable, these are angled. i know cos i ordered both. and the guy i bought from highlighted it.
> 
> let's give this another shot.
> i i tried the add url option but it doesn't recognize it as a link to the image. not sure why.
> ...


 

 They look really great... thanks for sharing.


----------



## To.M

lorspeaker said:


> is there a black color option  on this cable?



The black one is the standard one in the box, the silver one you can buy separately.


----------



## salatgung

After 1 hour test many headfone, from atr, zs1, 3, hd... Finally i pickef Zst , it havent too much bass like atr, and have crystal mid. But the bass is quite overhead in some song.
But the build is quite bad


----------



## VShaft

Anyone know the difference between the *ZST* (the black model) and the *ZST Pro* (the crystally blue-pink ones)?


----------



## Rajey

Need some help. So I just got the ATR's and ZS3's (were on sale for 11/11 day on GearBest).

 I keep hearing these are really bassy, but somehow I can't seem to get much bass from them, for reference, my bundled earphones which came with my Benjie K9 DAP have more bass ( they aren't meant to ).

 I'm thinking it has something to do with the fit? I've swapped out the earbuds for the smaller ones and the bigger ones but the ones that come on them by default seem to fit me best. I still can't seem to hear much bass and I doubt they're defective as clarity is perfect . Any ideas? 
  
 P.S : Also ran the earphones on my laptop to same results.


----------



## Ruben123

rajey said:


> Need some help. So I just got the ATR's and ZS3's (were on sale for 11/11 day on GearBest).
> 
> I keep hearing these are really bassy, but somehow I can't seem to get much bass from them, for reference, my bundled earphones which came with my Benjie K9 DAP have more bass ( they aren't meant to ).
> 
> ...


 

 Could be that youre used to more bass. I myself am used to a small amount of bass but didnt find the ZS3 to be really bassy.


----------



## Byfrost

mellowship said:


> I am starting to think I've got a defected pair of ED12s...
> The mids and vocals "seem" more forward then Xiaomi's? Or are they blowing on your ears like they just came out of those icecream truck speakers?
> I loathe the ED12... they just remind me of a pair of fake Xiaomi pistons 3 I've been scammed with... the ED12 are not worthy of KZ rep...
> Or maybe mines are from a salvaged batch... I don't know...


 

 Did your ED12 box came shrink wrapped? My wasn't. My ZS3 came shrink wrapped. And yes, my ED12 is way too bassy and "boomsy". Mids is barely there and highs is almost non existant.


----------



## To.M

I have just received the silver cable for my ZST, time to test it!


----------



## dilidani

ZS3 needs serious amount of burnin. Im surely topping 100hrs on my pair and its getting decent. If your sound seems total :beep: just try plugging the 2-pin connector in the opposite direction. It did the trick for me.  
 It has decent amount of bass even for me (I'm kinda basshead) but mids cant really keep up with the bass response. For 8 usds with replacable cable its good, but I prefer my recent favourite, Plextone X41M (subbass monster for edm with *OK* mids and treble).


----------



## hoerlurar

i'm a bit tempted to buy the ZST since gearbest has it for $11.49, but with all the mixed reviews i'm not sure if they are good or bad.
 Might be bad first batches and later batches are better, but i'm not sure i want to take the gamble right now.


----------



## Mellowship

byfrost said:


> Did your ED12 box came shrink wrapped? My wasn't. My ZS3 came shrink wrapped. And yes, my ED12 is way too bassy and "boomsy". Mids is barely there and highs is almost non existant.


 
 Nope, just the regular cardboard/plastic box. Also noted a huge gap between the body and the black lids. And the "blue" unit was actually purple. And the bass is "boomsy" alright, and the low mids are uncontrolled... They just don't sound right, and don't respect instrument/voice timbre. A disgrace..


----------



## Vidal

mellowship said:


> Nope, just the regular cardboard/plastic box. Also noted a huge gap between the body and the black lids. And the "blue" unit was actually purple. And the bass is "boomsy" alright, and the low mids are uncontrolled... They just don't sound right, and don't respect instrument/voice timbre. A disgrace..


 
  
 If you're buying from Gearbest sometimes they don't come shrink wrapped because they are tested by GB on arrival. I think some other suppliers do the same.


----------



## gobin

HI everyone, 
 What is you guys thought on the KZ ZST in compare with the KZ ZS3? 
 Does the price difference set the KZ ZST far ahead from the new KZ ZS3 ?


----------



## WhiteWulfe

vshaft said:


> Anyone know the difference between the *ZST* (the black model) and the *ZST Pro* (the crystally blue-pink ones)?


 
  
 According to Jim@NiceHCK, the only difference (at least in the stock he has) is the colour of the shell.  I'm really wishing I had ordered a pair of the purple and blue ones back during the 11.11 sale, now they're $27ish CAD each (or $34ish CAD if you get the silver cable).
  


zephyr11 said:


> ZST in crystal color, with silver cables. note they are diff from the zs3 cable, these are angled. i know cos i ordered both. and the guy i bought from highlighted it.
> 
> let's give this another shot.
> i i tried the add url option but it doesn't recognize it as a link to the image. not sure why.
> ...


 
  
 Yup, definitely some gorgeous shots.  Has me saddened I wound up purchasing the carbon fibre ones from GearBest a week and a half ago...  That for some strange reason haven't shipped yet, but I'm looking forward to a pair


----------



## zephyr11

^^^^^^^^^^^^


 Glad to help! sorry to hear that you didn't get the crystal ones, I thought they look pretty good, and that's one of the reasons I got them, lol. I'm sure you could gift the black ones to someone and get them crystal ones!
  
 and also I don't think there's a difference inside the carbon and the crystal ZST. more like just a case difference. and a sidenote, they actually came with BLACK regular cables, I didn't use them at all, so it's still in the package. with the spare silicone tips.
  
  
 and about the ZS3; I am burning in my set, with silver cables. it does sound better after about 20hrs. will try to update here once I lock in more hours.
  
  
  
 another thing.
  
 I've been trying to find higher quality mp3, just has to be 320 or thereabouts. all genres. if it cannot be shared here, if you have something you would don't mind sharing, please send me a pm! thank you very much!


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Eh, knowing me I'll wind up ordering in the crystal/pro/purple-blue-sexy-version eventually simply because I want a pair of them, as does hubby.
  
 I'd be enjoying my pair of ZS3's tonight if GearBest hadn't shipped them COD (they split shipped my previous order - I'm currently working with them to remedy the bill, as I did pay for shipping).  Oh well, it's only a few days of waiting since payday is Thursday.  World isn't going to end, at least I have a pretty good idea where they are now - they sat in limbo for what felt like forever.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

zephyr11 said:


> ZST in crystal color, with silver cables. note they are diff from the zs3 cable, these are angled. i know cos i ordered both. and the guy i bought from highlighted it.
> 
> let's give this another shot.
> i i tried the add url option but it doesn't recognize it as a link to the image. not sure why.
> ...


 
 Hot damn, those look absolutely gorgeous.  Didn't think I'd ever say that about any IEM, especially one at this price


----------



## zephyr11

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


 agreed! I too never expected something like this to be avail to something of this price point.
  
  
  
 WhiteWulfe;
  
 do share what your thoughts are about the zs3, out of box.


----------



## Byfrost

mellowship said:


> Nope, just the regular cardboard/plastic box. Also noted a huge gap between the body and the black lids. And the "blue" unit was actually purple. And the bass is "boomsy" alright, and the low mids are uncontrolled... They just don't sound right, and don't respect instrument/voice timbre. A disgrace..


 
 Yup my box wasn't shrink wrapped either. My ZS3 is shrink wrapped.
  
 Oh wow, ZS3 sounds so good out of the box. No where near my UE TF10s, but... ZS3 sounds like a good decent replacement.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

zephyr11 said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> agreed! I too never expected something like this to be avail to something of this price point.
> ...


 
 I'll do my best to post them when I pick the package up on Thursday.  Local CanadaPost guy takes his time getting packages to the local post office.  Here's hoping the included tips with the ZS3's fit better than the ATR's ones did, I'm still trying to figure something out for those (aka small is too small and I have to go for deep insertion, which gives me a headache in a few minutes, mediums have a bit too much pressure)...  Of course, tip rolling would help, but I think those packages had a long stopover in Hawaii or something.  I have KZ Spiral, KZ Starline, and "Comply style" memory foam tips on the way (went with inexpensive ones from AliExpress, if they pan out I'll look into actual proper Comply's)


----------



## 1clearhead

....any more information on the ZSR (ZST Pro)?
  
 Link?


----------



## khighly

zephyr11 said:


> ZST in crystal color, with silver cables. note they are diff from the zs3 cable, these are angled. i know cos i ordered both. and the guy i bought from highlighted it.
> 
> let's give this another shot.
> i i tried the add url option but it doesn't recognize it as a link to the image. not sure why.
> ...


 
  
 Those will blend very nicely with my pink hair!
  
 I wonder why the pink/blue ones I'm getting say ZST PRO as the model?


----------



## ScarboroughFair

I'm down to ATR and ZS3. how do these compare in terms of sound (esp. mids, highs, soundstage) comfort and design. And I HATE bass bleeding in the mids.
  
 P.S has anyone tried the new xiaomi hybrid triple driver (not the 1more)?


----------



## CoiL

scarboroughfair said:


> I'm down to ATR and ZS3. how do these compare in terms of sound (esp. mids, highs, soundstage) comfort and design. And *I HATE bass bleeding in the mids.*


 
 Then ATR should be better for You as ZS3 is more V-shaped than ATR. ATR has only slight V-shape but very natural mids and bass isn`t intruding into mids and is accurate, fast and detailed.


----------



## danimoca

I can confirm the ATR's are natural in a fun sort of way. They aren't neutral, but sound balanced, with a touch heavier bass than neutral.


----------



## khighly

danimoca said:


> I can confirm the ATR's are natural in a fun sort of way. They aren't neutral, but sound balanced, with a touch heavier bass than neutral.


 

 Do the ATR's have a high end compared to the ATE's? The ATE's are pretty flat with a bump in the bass and a lack of anything beyond 14k or so, in my opinion.


----------



## Euljiro

Oh boy, those ZSR Pros. I would def pick up a pair if they are somewhere around $50.


----------



## khighly

euljiro said:


> Oh boy, those ZSR Pros. I would def pick up a pair if they are somewhere around $50.


 

 Mark My Words: $29 on Gearbest.


----------



## danimoca

khighly said:


> Do the ATR's have a high end compared to the ATE's? The ATE's are pretty flat with a bump in the bass and a lack of anything beyond 14k or so, in my opinion.


 
  
 I don't have the ATE's, so can't say. But most that have say the ATR's are more balanced and have better extension at both ends.


----------



## xanlamin

khighly said:


> Mark My Words: $29 on Gearbest.


 Can't seem to find them on GB. Got a link?


----------



## khighly

ZST:
Jimi Hendrix - Born Under A Bad Sign (from the Blues album)

These headphones are made for this song. If you listen to it and don't smile, your headphones are faulty.


----------



## To.M

I've just smiled!  Well, I can't stop listening to Editors - In Dream, a great album and which sounds excellent with ZST. The same goes for Losers - And So We Shall Never Part...and a few others 

Try: 
Editors - Salvation
Losers - The Chain

The silver cable is ok, it improves a bit clarity by highliting mids and highs and tightening bass.


----------



## zephyr11

^^^^^^^^^^^^


 not too sure why they are called ZST PRO, i got them as zst, just in another colorway.
  
  
 WhiteWulfe;
  
 i'm actually using some comply tips, but they don't seem to isolate enough. looking into some KZ "memory foam tips" the silicone tips that came with the ZST are slightly diff, star cuts on them, the ZS3 ones are red in the middle, none really fitted well enough.


----------



## To.M

A marketing trick on the part of some sellers, I would say, seeing PRO customers may think it is an upgraded version.


----------



## gemmoglock

khighly said:


> Do the ATR's have a high end compared to the ATE's? The ATE's are pretty flat with a bump in the bass and a lack of anything beyond 14k or so, in my opinion.


 
 I didn't own but tested both.
  
 ATR is better extended and smoother treble. Some said soundstage is better for ATE but didn't pay attention to it when I was testing!
  
 Still love my ZS3 although I haven't remembered to update my headfi review.... It is bassy but I think it has a more energetic presentation than ATR.


----------



## CoiL

gemmoglock said:


> khighly said:
> 
> 
> > *Do the ATR's have a high end compared to the ATE's*? The ATE's are pretty flat with a bump in the bass and a lack of anything beyond 14k or so, in my opinion.
> ...


 
 Stock ATE aren`t as flat as ATR and latter has better clarity, details sparkle in highs. Imo ATE has smoother treble (in every sense) than ATR, not opposite.
 Soundstage is slightly larger and more open on ATE (especially soundstage frontal depth) but ATR gives Your more details and clarity in return and doesn`t sound so "laid-back".
  
 I prefer my modded ATE (2nd gen) over ATR(modded + "starline" tips) in terms of soundstage/imaging but ATR highs are better resolved and overall more details "in your face".
  
 Without mods (and if I push back my love for soundstage openness/imaging and size), I would pick ATR over ATE.


----------



## gemmoglock

coil said:


> Stock ATE aren`t as flat as ATR and latter has better clarity, details sparkle in highs. Imo ATE has smoother treble (in every sense) than ATR, not opposite.
> Soundstage is slightly larger and more open on ATE (especially soundstage frontal depth) but ATR gives Your more details and clarity in return and doesn`t sound so "laid-back".
> 
> I prefer my modded ATE (2nd gen) over ATR(modded + "starline" tips) in terms of soundstage/imaging but ATR highs are better resolved and overall more details "in your face".
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for pointing out about the treble, you are probably more accurate  Haha once you have mods any one is fine right hahaha! I tried ordering KZ wide bore tips but they got refunded due to stock issue.
  
 Are they worth it to reorder at Black Friday? I currently have the stock tips and the KZ star ones. So far I fine the star tips a little bassier but the overall sound seems a tad clearer.


----------



## Keller1

Wait,there's a ZSR now?


----------



## robervaul

keller1 said:


> Wait,there's a ZSR now?




In development.


----------



## Keller1

robervaul said:


> In development.


 

  Great, I hope they refine the highs and make the body a tad more premium.

 Holy f, 10 drivers, that's gonna be wild.


----------



## CoiL

gemmoglock said:


> I tried ordering KZ wide bore tips but they got refunded due to stock issue.
> 
> Are they worth it to reorder at Black Friday? I currently have the stock tips and the KZ star ones. So far I fine the star tips a little bassier but the overall sound seems a tad clearer.


 
 If You have "starline" tips, then imo, no point to get wide-bore "whirlwind" tips. Better get Yourself JVC Spiral Dot tips and wide bore Philips UE tips (original not fakes) - they are very useful with many IEM`s.


----------



## CoiL

keller1 said:


> robervaul said:
> 
> 
> > In development.
> ...


 
 What? KZ ZSR with 10 drivers? where did this came from? O_o Any official information? I suspect that I HAVE to get those! My poor wallet -.-


----------



## Keller1

coil said:


> What? KZ ZSR with 10 drivers? where did this came from? O_o Any official information? I suspect that I HAVE to get those! My poor wallet -.-


 
 It's possible it's just a rumor. There's a picture of the packaging listed on the thread's photos. 

 It doesnt look like a packaging you'd expect to find 10 driver IEMs in but knowing KZ they'll probably be ~120ish.


----------



## rockingthearies

I don't even know if my KZ ATR could be upgraded. I just love the ATR sound signature so much that now I am afraid that if I spend more money I would probably get something similar.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The ATRs are good, but I'm not sure if they're thaaaat good.
  
 I did find them highly fit-dependent though, so how they fit in your ear affects the sound signature quite a lot.  They lack the clarity which my Piston Colorfuls can sometimes provide.


----------



## Griffith

rockingthearies said:


> I don't even know if my KZ ATR could be upgraded. I just love the ATR sound signature so much that now I am afraid that if I spend more money I would probably get something similar.




I've seen the Vsonic Vsd3s or gr07 being touted as upgrades by people who enjoyed the KZ ATE or ATR


----------



## robervaul

coil said:


> What? KZ ZSR with 10 drivers? where did this came from? O_o Any official information? I suspect that I HAVE to get those! My poor wallet -.-


 
 5 drivers each side


----------



## Griffith

sometechnoob said:


> The ATRs are good, but I'm not sure if they're thaaaat good.
> 
> I did find them highly fit-dependent though, so how they fit in your ear affects the sound signature quite a lot.  They lack the clarity which my Piston Colorfuls can sometimes provide.




Your preference may vary and the fit of your Xiaomi may be better in your ears. Getting a good seal is important with any earphone but you'd have a hard time convincing me those Xiaomi are better sonically then the KZ ATE or ATR.

From my experience with Xiaomi earphones, with their Hybrids, what they have in detail they lack in imaging and warmth. They have good quality for their price but I found them to sound artificial with some of the songs I listened to with them.


----------



## rockingthearies

The only thing I feel that the ATR lacks is isolation and fit perhaps some ear guide too. Sound wise I love them. Forgot to mention I am using jvc spiral dots on them


----------



## SomeTechNoob

griffith said:


> Your preference may vary and the fit of your Xiaomi may be better in your ears. Getting a good seal is important with any earphone but you'd have a hard time convincing me those Xiaomi are better sonically then the KZ ATE or ATR.
> 
> From my experience with Xiaomi earphones, with their Hybrids, what they have in detail they lack in imaging and warmth. They have good quality for their price but I found them to sound artificial with some of the songs I listened to with them.


 
 I definitely have had a longer time with my Xiaomi Pistons and it may be why I prefer them.  I have been bringing the ATR on my commutes recently and have found that they have better sub bass but lack a bit in the mids and trebles, and as a result I perceive them to have less clarity.
  
 The Hybrids have a different sound signature than the Piston lineup from what I can recall though.  I have not tried the hybrids due to the hit or miss effect they seem to have on most people.


----------



## gemmoglock

CoiL said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> If You have "starline" tips, then imo, no point to get wide-bore "whirlwind" tips. Better get Yourself JVC Spiral Dot tips and wide bore Philips UE tips (original not fakes) - they are very useful with many IEM`s.


 
 Thanks for this! For now I will stay with starline tips, updated my ZS3 review again. And my shipping agent is friendly enough to cancel my ZST due to many delays, so I had it refunded and I am eagerly awaiting a Shanling M1 DAP to replace my sold Fiio M3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Meanwhile I heard from Gearbest support that stock is insufficient for the ZS3, so my spare ZS3 has been swapped for 2 ATRs! One to keep and one to gift yay hahaha. If anyone wants to support my Gearbest get it free link or the friendly seller of the Shanling M3 hit me up! I was conversing with the store in broken Chinese so the assistant didn't give specifics, but recommended the M1 for a slightly more vocal-friendly sound reproduction compared to the Fiio X1 Gen2. Will have to wait till the actual product arrives, but it looks like a good deal with a Samsung Evo Plus card so long as the card is genuine LOL.


rockingthearies said:


> The only thing I feel that the ATR lacks is isolation and fit perhaps some ear guide too. Sound wise I love them. Forgot to mention I am using jvc spiral dots on them


 
 I think isolation is a problem for all KZs. I thought they were modest to spec -20db isolation for the ZS3 but it is true, isolation really isn't great. Ambient noise for safety when on the move I guess


----------



## CoiL

sometechnoob said:


> The ATRs are good, but I'm not sure if they're thaaaat good.
> 
> I did find them highly *fit-dependent though*, so how they fit in your ear affects the sound signature quite a lot.  They lack the clarity which my Piston Colorfuls can sometimes provide.


 
 Tip-dependent rather
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





rockingthearies said:


> The only thing I feel that the ATR lacks is isolation and fit perhaps some ear guide too. Sound wise I love them. Forgot to mention I am using jvc spiral dots on them


 
 Imo isolation is pretty good (even if modded open-back). JVC Spiral dot and KZ "starline" sound pretty similar with ATR and are great match. If someone wishes to reduce bass and get more neutral and "airy" sound, then Philips UE original wide bore tips fit good also.


----------



## rockingthearies

Let me correct myself, the ATR have good isolation but coming from a ZS3 the ATR isolation, you know its mehh. But can't blame the ATR when the ZS3 have a universal fit.


----------



## zephyr11

funny that you all are talking about fit and isolation.
  
 i just tried on the L sized silicone tips and they fit PERFECT, IEM-Noob-me, i always used a M foam tip so i figured i should be a M silicone tip. but i opened up the box, and what the heck, just tried some L tips and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.....
  
 THE WORLD IS WONDERFUL AGAIN....
  
  
 on that note, anyone has sweet silicone tips to recommend?


----------



## gemmoglock

zephyr11 said:


> funny that you all are talking about fit and isolation.
> 
> i just tried on the L sized silicone tips and they fit PERFECT, IEM-Noob-me, i always used a M foam tip so i figured i should be a M silicone tip. but i opened up the box, and what the heck, just tried some L tips and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha fit is essential for good sound on universals? Try KZ starline or other brands like spiral dots? I'm sticking with starline for now.


----------



## hoerlurar

i received a pair of "rounded foams" (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comply-1-pair-super-comfortable-isolation-headphone-Tips-headset-memory-foam-sponge-earphone-ear-pads-earpiece/32477744702.html)
 and decided to try them on my ZS3 that i've never really achieved a good fit with neither a couple different silicone tips or regular comply/foams.
 I must say that now i can at least use the ZS3 and get a fair chance to evaluate their qualities
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 i have had the same fit problems others have had as well, but at least for now i can use them. I have some KZ starline tips on a slow boat from china as well that i will try when they arrive


----------



## Griffith

hoerlurar said:


> i received a pair of "rounded foams" (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comply-1-pair-super-comfortable-isolation-headphone-Tips-headset-memory-foam-sponge-earphone-ear-pads-earpiece/32477744702.html)
> and decided to try them on my ZS3 that i've never really achieved a good fit with neither a couple different silicone tips or regular comply/foams.
> I must say that now i can at least use the ZS3 and get a fair chance to evaluate their qualities
> 
> ...


 
  
 What size did you get?


----------



## hoerlurar

they should be in size M, only size available from that listing.


----------



## Griffith

hoerlurar said:


> they should be in size M, only size available from that listing.




Thank you, I'll order a pair or two.


----------



## CoiL

hoerlurar said:


> i received a pair of "rounded foams" (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comply-1-pair-super-comfortable-isolation-headphone-Tips-headset-memory-foam-sponge-earphone-ear-pads-earpiece/32477744702.html)


 
 Thanks for link. Will get them for my tip collection (~40 different tips). I usually do not like or use foam tips due to troublesome/time consuming insertion issues but will still get them just to try out rounded foams with silicone tube.


----------



## hoerlurar

I use similar rounded foams for my tdk ba200, but with smaller nozzle size. They are cheap, so why not try them .


----------



## Kerkyboi

Haven't got my ED12's from GearBest and I'm starting to get unexcited about it after reading your reviews, this is going to be the 1st KZ I will own and I hope it isn't all that bad. Also ordered the ZS3, ATR and ZST but will probably get my hands on them end of next month judging by how slow GearBest shipping is for my ED12's. Late Christmas presents maybe.


----------



## khighly

kerkyboi said:


> Haven't got my ED12's from GearBest and I'm starting to get unexcited about it after reading your reviews, this is going to be the 1st KZ I will own and I hope it isn't all that bad. Also ordered the ZS3, ATR and ZST but will probably get my hands on them end of next month judging by how slow GearBest shipping is for my ED12's. Late Christmas presents maybe.


 

 ED12. Awful. Just awful. Not kidding.
  
 Your zs3,atr,zst will be worth the wait.


----------



## stephanNL

It's been a while since I dabbled in KZ in-ears. I see the ZS3 and ZST popping up here and there. Which one would you recommend for someone who likes a laidback sound signature and a bit of bass emphasis yet is not keen on a very sharp high end? My hearing can't really deal with too crispy upper mids/highs around 5-8 KhZ for some reason.


----------



## Griffith

stephannl said:


> It's been a while since I dabbled in KZ in-ears. I see the ZS3 and ZST popping up here and there. Which one would you recommend for someone who likes a laidback sound signature and a bit of bass emphasis yet is not keen on a very sharp high end? My hearing can't really deal with too crispy upper mids/highs around 5-8 KhZ for some reason.


 
  
 I think the ZST or the ATR would be the best options in KZ's lineup according to your taste, but I may be wrong. Just going by impressions I've read on this forum.


----------



## Ruben123

stephannl said:


> It's been a while since I dabbled in KZ in-ears. I see the ZS3 and ZST popping up here and there. Which one would you recommend for someone who likes a laidback sound signature and a bit of bass emphasis yet is not keen on a very sharp high end? My hearing can't really deal with too crispy upper mids/highs around 5-8 KhZ for some reason.




Zs3 and Atr would both be OK, zs3 has a bit less treble than the Atr but both are very good. Reading some impressions about zst are that they're not really good, but most agree about zs3 and Atr so I'd go with them


----------



## To.M

ZST are very good and with the silver cable they are even better, that's what I can say about them as a user. Now they are for 11.49usd at GB, by the way


----------



## khighly

Cany anyone link me to the cheapest pair of ZS3's? I'd like to add them to my collection!


----------



## Griffith

khighly said:


> Cany anyone link me to the cheapest pair of ZS3's? I'd like to add them to my collection!


 
  
 Gearbest probably has the cheapest ones: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## RvTrav

kerkyboi said:


> Haven't got my ED12's from GearBest and I'm starting to get unexcited about it after reading your reviews, this is going to be the 1st KZ I will own and I hope it isn't all that bad. Also ordered the ZS3, ATR and ZST but will probably get my hands on them end of next month judging by how slow GearBest shipping is for my ED12's. Late Christmas presents maybe.


 

 ​Even though the ED12's have had less than stellar reviews, I have found that they respond very well to equalization.  If your source has an equalizer and you find that the ED12's sound signature is not to your liking, I'm sure you can have some fun with the equalizer and the ED12s while waiting for your other KZs.  I found the following EQ to my liking
  
 64hz      -1.5
 125hz    -2.5
 250hz    -1
 500hz    +2
 1000hz  +1


----------



## gemmoglock

rvtrav said:


> ​Even though the ED12's have had less than stellar reviews, I have found that they respond very well to equalization.  If your source has an equalizer and you find that the ED12's sound signature is not to your liking, I'm sure you can have some fun with the equalizer and the ED12s while waiting for your other KZs.  I found the following EQ to my liking
> 
> 64hz      -1.5
> 125hz    -2.5
> ...


 
  
 That seems to tally with some comments on Amazon that ED12 has a W shaped signature... you seem to have smoothened it out


----------



## B9Scrambler

rvtrav Would be very curious to see how similar our ED12s sound.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

griffith said:


> Gearbest probably has the cheapest ones: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21


 
  
 This is indeed probably the cheapest option, however they are taking quite a long time to ship mine out.


----------



## gemmoglock

sometechnoob said:


> This is indeed probably the cheapest option, however they are taking quite a long time to ship mine out.


 
  
 Gearbest support informed me earlier this week (Monday) that they have insufficient stock for the ZS3 so dispatching is delayed.
  
 Had mine switched for two ATRs (http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_432000.html?vip=535091) since I already have a ZS3 
  
 Other than a slightly loose filter/dustcap at one of my ZS3 nozzles build quality is fine


----------



## 1clearhead

Personally, I agree with 'CoiL'. Coming from the KZ line-up, the ATR's are technically the best in SQ.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Yeaaah, GearBest is rather slow with shipping gear out at the moment.  Still waiting (two weeks later) for my ZST's and ED12's to ship.  When I ordered my ATR's and ZS3's they were fairly quick about it.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

My ATR and ED9 shipped out no problem, but my Colorful and ZS3 are on hold for now, I suppose.


----------



## Shinry

Did you order the colored ZST at GB? I haven't seen them there, could you please link them? =)


----------



## doggiemom

shinry said:


> Did you order the colored ZST at GB? I haven't seen them there, could you please link them? =)


 

 I could not find the colored ZSTs on GB, though they do have the black with some design.  I prefer to order from GB, but ended up ordering the colored ZSTs from Ali on singles day, and am now waiting impatiently........


----------



## mebaali

stephannl said:


> It's been a while since I dabbled in KZ in-ears. I see the ZS3 and ZST popping up here and there. Which one would you recommend for someone who likes a laidback sound signature and a bit of bass emphasis yet is not keen on a very sharp high end? My hearing can't really deal with too crispy upper mids/highs around 5-8 KhZ for some reason.


 
  
 IMHO, both ATE (inaugural version) and ZS3 has the sound presentation that you are looking for. I would suggest you to look at ZS3, in particular.
  
 Among my KZ collection, I love using ZS3 (followed closely by ATR) more so than the others. I feel they are engaging yet relaxed in their sound signature (no peaky highs).
  
 BTW, GearBest has them for under 10 USD (shipped).
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Griffith

sometechnoob said:


> This is indeed probably the cheapest option, however they are taking quite a long time to ship mine out.




That can happen on Aliexpress as well. I'm still waiting for some items to ship that I ordered on the 11th.


----------



## Griffith

gemmoglock said:


> Gearbest support informed me earlier this week (Monday) that they have insufficient stock for the ZS3 so dispatching is delayed.




Oh dear, that might be my fault as I ordered a few of them


----------



## CoiL

stephannl said:


> It's been a while since I dabbled in KZ in-ears. I see the ZS3 and ZST popping up here and there. Which one would you recommend for someone who likes a laidback sound signature and a bit of bass emphasis yet is not keen on a very sharp high end? My hearing can't really deal with too crispy upper mids/highs around 5-8 KhZ for some reason.


 
 ATR


----------



## CoiL

to.m said:


> ZST are very good and with the silver cable they are even better, that's what I can say about them as a user. Now they are for 11.49usd at GB, by the way


 
 Damn, gotta try them out for such price! But I want ZST colorful because if I don`t like them, I can use shells for modding ;P


----------



## Caipirina

I just came across an offer for the KZ ZN1, which appears to be the usual KZ wonder with built in AMP! but I can't really find any reviews here or elsewhere (other than gearbest at al), it's just mentioned in one other review. 
  
 Not that it would really fit my gym usage, having an amp box dangling around, but I am intrigued now. Anyone? Bueller?


----------



## Mellowship

caipirina said:


> I just came across an offer for the KZ ZN1, which appears to be the usual KZ wonder with built in AMP! but I can't really find any reviews here or elsewhere (other than gearbest at al), it's just mentioned in one other review.
> 
> Not that it would really fit my gym usage, having an amp box dangling around, but I am intrigued now. Anyone? Bueller?


 
  
 That's a very old KZ. Don't have it, but I think the impressions were quite positive. I guess you will find a lot of information about it in this thread, but you will have to filter it, for KZ, a little after releasing the amped version of the ZN1, released a ZN1 "mini" without the amp, so many impressions refer to this unamped version. I believe, also, that the ZS1, which has the same earpiece form factor and double dynamic drivers, is "bassier", and that the ZN1/ZN1 mini were more refined.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mellowship said:


> That's a very old KZ. Don't have it, but I think the impressions were quite positive. I guess you will find a lot of information about it in this thread, but you will have to filter it, for KZ, a little after releasing the amped version of the ZN1, released a ZN1 "mini" without the amp, so many impressions refer to this unamped version. I believe, also, that the ZS1, which has the same earpiece form factor and double dynamic drivers, is "bassier", and that the ZN1/ZN1 mini were more refined.


 
  
 It's not that old; September 2015. Initial impressions start around here; http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/6405#post_11918384


----------



## Kerkyboi

gemmoglock said:


> Gearbest support informed me earlier this week (Monday) that they have insufficient stock for the ZS3 so dispatching is delayed.
> 
> Had mine switched for two ATRs (http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_432000.html?vip=535091) since I already have a ZS3
> 
> Other than a slightly loose filter/dustcap at one of my ZS3 nozzles build quality is fine


 
  
 Got the same issue regarding my ordered pair of ZS3's, customer service told me stocks sold out so quick that I have to wait 7-15 days before they can ship out my pair. Eventually, they sent my pair after a week or so and gave me some points for waiting. 
  
  


whitewulfe said:


> Yeaaah, GearBest is rather slow with shipping gear out at the moment.  Still waiting (two weeks later) for my ZST's and ED12's to ship.  When I ordered my ATR's and ZS3's they were fairly quick about it.


 
  
 +10 on GB shipping being so damn slow. If not for their best prices for KZs I would've ordered my pairs on Ali, takes only 2 weeks to get to my place from wherever in china.
  


rvtrav said:


> ​Even though the ED12's have had less than stellar reviews, I have found that they respond very well to equalization.  If your source has an equalizer and you find that the ED12's sound signature is not to your liking, I'm sure you can have some fun with the equalizer and the ED12s while waiting for your other KZs.  I found the following EQ to my liking
> 
> 64hz      -1.5
> 125hz    -2.5
> ...


 
  
 Awesome! Thanks for the tip! duly noted!


----------



## Mellowship

b9scrambler said:


> It's not that old; September 2015. Initial impressions start around here; http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/6405#post_11918384


 
  
 Only a year and peanuts? Jeeezzz... time flies. By the amount of new IEMs from KZ, it seemed they were older then they are. Sorry 'bout that.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mellowship said:


> Only a year and peanuts? Jeeezzz... time flies. By the amount of new IEMs from KZ, it seemed they were older then they are. Sorry 'bout that.


 
  
 Hahah, no worries man! KZ moves fast. Off the top of my head, since then we've gotten; ZS1, ZS2, ZN1 Mini, HDS1/2/3, EDR2, ATE, ATE-S, ATR, ED12, ZS3, ED3C, Z1, ED4, S1, ZST, and probably more. Whew!


----------



## squallkiercosa

whitewulfe said:


> Yeaaah, GearBest is rather slow with shipping gear out at the moment.  Still waiting (two weeks later) for my ZST's and ED12's to ship.  When I ordered my ATR's and ZS3's they were fairly quick about it.


 
 The problem might be related to the high volume of packages due to 11.11 ( single's day) and don't forget gifts/decoration/whatever for Christmas and New Year
 I wouldn't be surprised if not all the post services across Asia are saturated. \\
  
 Edit: interested in ZSR. Keep us posted


----------



## Viber

ATR is now 4$ , ZS3 is almost 9$.
  
 I can get two earphones for the price of one ZS3 and i read they are the same in sound quality.
  
 Is the ZS3 ANY better than ATR?


----------



## Majin

caipirina said:


> I just came across an offer for the KZ ZN1, which appears to be the usual KZ wonder with built in AMP! but I can't really find any reviews here or elsewhere (other than gearbest at al), it's just mentioned in one other review.
> 
> Not that it would really fit my gym usage, having an amp box dangling around, but I am intrigued now. Anyone? Bueller?


 
  
 Bought it during the 11.11 sale of 2015 and thinking back they were really good. A bit darker than the UE TF10 but with the amp you can tune it to your liking. I sold them cause the amp was just at an uncomfortable spot. Would insta buy for 20 euro but only 2 or 3 shops sell them for over $40


----------



## Caipirina

Thanks Majin and B9Scrambler for the info ... never seen it before and here in Vietnam it is touted as brand new  at around 40$  .. yeah, not sure if I want a dangly amp ...


----------



## gemmoglock

viber said:


> ATR is now 4$ , ZS3 is almost 9$.
> 
> I can get two earphones for the price of one ZS3 and i read they are the same in sound quality.
> 
> Is the ZS3 ANY better than ATR?




They are different. Both are pretty good in their own ways. If you can afford it get both  Check out my review, I find that ZS3 on upgraded cables is pretty good though stock with good tips is OK as well.


----------



## Mellowship

squallkiercosa said:


> The problem might be related to the high volume of packages due to 11.11 ( single's day) and don't forget gifts/decoration/whatever for Christmas and New Year
> I wouldn't be surprised if not all the post services across Asia are saturated. \\
> 
> Edit: interested in ZSR. Keep us posted


 
  
 AE is on slow mode too. Some of my 11-11 buys took 2 or 3 days to confirm payment and one or 2 more days to be sent... I guess I will get them before Xmas...


----------



## Majin

mellowship said:


> AE is on slow mode too. Some of my 11-11 buys took 2 or 3 days to confirm payment and one or 2 more days to be sent... I guess I will get them before Xmas...


 
  
 I already received one my earphone from the 11.11 sale and the other one is still sorting in China.


----------



## Saoshyant

viber said:


> ATR is now 4$ , ZS3 is almost 9$.
> 
> I can get two earphones for the price of one ZS3 and i read they are the same in sound quality.
> 
> Is the ZS3 ANY better than ATR?




Where did you see ATR for $4? I wouldn't mind giving it a try.


----------



## rockingthearies

saoshyant said:


> Where did you see ATR for $4? I wouldn't mind giving it a try.




http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html

Think its here


----------



## doggiemom

viber said:


> ATR is now 4$ , ZS3 is almost 9$.
> 
> I can get two earphones for the price of one ZS3 and i read they are the same in sound quality.
> 
> Is the ZS3 ANY better than ATR?


 

 Personally I prefer the ATR because the fit is far more comfortable for my ears.  For whatever reason the right earpiece on the ZS3 rubs and is very distracting for me.  I also am not a big memory wire fan, I prefer the weights on the ATR.  The ZS3 has a fuller soundstage and a more "fun" sound, esp with the upgraded cable.  For those prices, buy both.


----------



## Saoshyant

rockingthearies said:


> http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_431999.html
> 
> Think its here




Thank you it's ordered


----------



## Djsenjaya

majin said:


> I already received one my earphone from the 11.11 sale and the other one is still sorting in China.




How lucky. My zst and zs3 are still in postal office


----------



## Viber

saoshyant said:


> Thank you it's ordered


 
  
 yea, it was on gearbest.


----------



## zephyr11

gemmoglock said:


> Haha fit is essential for good sound on universals? Try KZ starline or other brands like spiral dots? I'm sticking with starline for now.


 
  
  
 yes, currently using the starline (I think), from the orginal ZST pack. in LARGE size. perfect! never knew 1mm could make such a drastic difference...
  
  
 only problem I have with them is that, they stick out a little more. not that it really matters, but it does feel like it might fall out when I do sudden movements.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

squallkiercosa said:


> The problem might be related to the high volume of packages due to 11.11 ( single's day) and don't forget gifts/decoration/whatever for Christmas and New Year
> I wouldn't be surprised if not all the post services across Asia are saturated. \\
> 
> Edit: interested in ZSR. Keep us posted




I ordered my ZST's and ED12's two days before 11.11... And GearBest hasn't shipped them. Two weeks when expected ship was only a few days later is my complaint about such. If they had shipped in the original timeframe, I would be getting them in sometime next week. Oh well, guess it's waiting a few more weeks to try those out. 

On the flipside, I picked up my ZS3's from the post office, and it seems another package is en router to the post office available for pickup tomorrow (local CanadaPost guy apparently doesn't know how to use a buzzer, and just delivery slips packages)... Only thing that size that I'm expecting is my Tennmak Pro's. 

Haven't spent much time with the ZS3's because supper came in, but I love the shade if blue they used for the cable, and hubby got a few laughs out if watching me try to get them in - it took me a few minutes to catch on how the ZS3's went in. Already I prefer how they fit compared to the ATR's but I've only tried medium tips so far. They isolate well - too well, I had to be really careful getting the left earbud out because it completely sealed and didn't want to budge for a while.


----------



## zephyr11

!


----------



## gemmoglock

whitewulfe said:


> I ordered my ZST's and ED12's two days before 11.11... And GearBest hasn't shipped them. Two weeks when expected ship was only a few days later is my complaint about such. If they had shipped in the original timeframe, I would be getting them in sometime next week. Oh well, guess it's waiting a few more weeks to try those out.
> 
> On the flipside, I picked up my ZS3's from the post office, and it seems another package is en router to the post office available for pickup tomorrow (local CanadaPost guy apparently doesn't know how to use a buzzer, and just delivery slips packages)... Only thing that size that I'm expecting is my Tennmak Pro's.
> 
> Haven't spent much time with the ZS3's because supper came in, but I love the shade if blue they used for the cable, and hubby got a few laughs out if watching me try to get them in - it took me a few minutes to catch on how the ZS3's went in. Already I prefer how they fit compared to the ATR's but I've only tried medium tips so far. They isolate well - too well, I had to be really careful getting the left earbud out because it completely sealed and didn't want to budge for a while.


 
  
  
 Hmm.... I suggest you exchange your ED12 for something else with Gearbest Support if it hasn't shipped out. I thought they were the most polarising KZ in that you can love or hate it. I recall the detailed re-EQing shared earlier here to make it sound better


----------



## WhiteWulfe

gemmoglock said:


> Hmm.... I suggest you exchange your ED12 for something else with Gearbest Support if it hasn't shipped out. I thought they were the most polarising KZ in that you can love or hate it. I recall the detailed re-EQing shared earlier here to make it sound better


 
  
 I purchased those mainly because they're one of the few pairs that KZ makes that are apparently flush enough to sleep with them on.  Hubby was looking for a pair that if he's listening to music or whatever and falls asleep he won't wake up with a massive ear ache.  Silly coders, staying up waaaaaay later than they need to just because they wanted to fix one thing (or, more likely, because he was trying to get to the next boss in a game and wound up passing out halfway there) ^_^


----------



## gemmoglock

whitewulfe said:


> I purchased those mainly because they're one of the few pairs that KZ makes that are apparently flush enough to sleep with them on.  Hubby was looking for a pair that if he's listening to music or whatever and falls asleep he won't wake up with a massive ear ache.  Silly coders, staying up waaaaaay later than they need to just because they wanted to fix one thing (or, more likely, because he was trying to get to the next boss in a game and wound up passing out halfway there) ^_^


 
  
 Haha that's fair, remember to bookmark the EQ tweak somewhere


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm quite tempted to order the colorful ZST, and hope it offers the same value as the other KZ's I've tried.


----------



## Griffith

saoshyant said:


> I'm quite tempted to order the colorful ZST, and hope it offers the same value as the other KZ's I've tried.


 
  
 Yeah I'm quite intrigued by them also but it's hard to justify paying twice as much for a color change, even if the end price isn't that high. I'll wait until the premium on them dies off for being newer and later try to pick one up for closer to Gearbest's price.
  
 Edit: I spoke too soon... I just stumbled upon the Purple ZST being sold at more or less the same price as Gearbest's https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/119089_32760612759.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/119089_32760612759.html


----------



## Saoshyant

Thank you for pointing that price out.  That pretty much ends the debate in my head.


----------



## Griffith

saoshyant said:


> Thank you for pointing that price out.  That pretty much ends the debate in my head.


 
  
 You're welcome, let me just finish my order before they run out of stock, because I have the feeling a lot of people in this thread will be interested once they find out 
  
 Edit: By  the way, they all sell the upgrade cable at a reasonably discounted price: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100-Original-KZ-Plated-Silver-Cable-4-Cell-Single-Crystal-Copper-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-0-75mm/119089_32729628118.html
  
 It's rare to see that cable being sold for under 10 euros.


----------



## Saoshyant

griffith said:


> You're welcome, let me just finish my order before they run out of stock, because I have the feeling a lot of people in this thread will be interested once they find out
> 
> Edit: By  the way, they all sell the upgrade cable at a reasonably discounted price: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100-Original-KZ-Plated-Silver-Cable-4-Cell-Single-Crystal-Copper-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-0-75mm/119089_32729628118.html
> 
> It's rare to see that cable being sold for under 10 euros.


 
 I know there are two different KZ silver upgrade cables available, so I'm curious which of the two is the appropriate cable.  They both state they can be used on ZST, where one says ZS3 as well.


----------



## Griffith

Are there really two of those? I think the ZS3 and ZST share the same plug and the pictures I see of the said cable (I've seen pictures of it before) are identical to the ones of the one I just ordered.


----------



## Saoshyant

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZST-Cable-2pin-0-75-mm-2-6M-Upgraded-Silver-Plated-Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/119089_32741252790.html
  
 This would be the other cable.  If memory serves, I think the two cables might have something to do with a revision difference between the matte ZS3 and the shiny version.  I'm most likely misremembering however.


----------



## Griffith

Ah I see the termination is angled. But the plug seems to be the same.


----------



## Saoshyant

As it is, I think I'll see how I like it before replacing the cable.  Although, at this price it's tempting.


----------



## Griffith

saoshyant said:


> As it is, I think I'll see how I like it before replacing the cable.  Although, at this price it's tempting.


 
  
 I'm usually not a "cable person" but I've read from multiple people on threads like this one that the silver cable actually makes a significant difference. And think of it this way, even with the cable included we're still talking about a 20 euro'ish purchase. That's less or more or less the same of many of the headphones that are touted as alternatives to the KST like the **** UE, Tenmak Pro, etc.


----------



## gemmoglock

griffith said:


> You're welcome, let me just finish my order before they run out of stock, because I have the feeling a lot of people in this thread will be interested once they find out
> 
> Edit: By  the way, they all sell the upgrade cable at a reasonably discounted price: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100-Original-KZ-Plated-Silver-Cable-4-Cell-Single-Crystal-Copper-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-0-75mm/119089_32729628118.html
> 
> It's rare to see that cable being sold for under 10 euros.


 
 Actually in Asia we can ship it from Taobao all in around 14 SGD so just a bit cheaper 
  


griffith said:


> Are there really two of those? I think the ZS3 and ZST share the same plug and the pictures I see of the said cable (I've seen pictures of it before) are identical to the ones of the one I just ordered.


 
  
 YES THEY ARE DIFFERENT please specify when you order! My online pals say there is a slight difference so not fully interchangeable, and the design is also slightly different.


saoshyant said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZST-Cable-2pin-0-75-mm-2-6M-Upgraded-Silver-Plated-Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/119089_32741252790.html
> 
> This would be the other cable.  If memory serves, I think the two cables might have something to do with a revision difference between the matte ZS3 and the shiny version.  I'm most likely misremembering however.


 
 All ZS3 are the same, but ED12/ZST/ZS3 have their own variants. @CoiL's measurements show the upgrade worth it as the stock cable is pretty bad (so although I also believe cables don't make much difference the poorness of the stock cable necessitates it).


----------



## Griffith

gemmoglock said:


> Actually in Asia we can ship it from Taobao all in around 14 SGD so just a bit cheaper
> 
> 
> YES THEY ARE DIFFERENT please specify when you order! My online pals say there is a slight difference so not fully interchangeable, and the design is also slightly different.
> All ZS3 are the same, but ED12/ZST/ZS3 have their own variants. @CoiL's measurements show the upgrade worth it as the stock cable is pretty bad (so although I also believe cables don't make much difference the poorness of the stock cable necessitates it).


 
  
 So which cable should I order for a ZST? The one I ordered (the straight connector one) is touted as being compatible with ZS3 and ZST. I will soon own both so I don't mind getting another cable.


----------



## Shinry

Damn it, had to order the ZST also. Now I will be able to compare ZST/ZS3/ATR myself. xD 
I've always thought using different cables is Audiovoodoo and it cannot change thaaaat much.
Anyway maybe I will have to order the cable also but not for now.


----------



## chompchomps

griffith said:


> Yeah I'm quite intrigued by them also but it's hard to justify paying twice as much for a color change, even if the end price isn't that high. I'll wait until the premium on them dies off for being newer and later try to pick one up for closer to Gearbest's price.
> 
> Edit: I spoke too soon... I just stumbled upon the Purple ZST being sold at more or less the same price as Gearbest's https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/119089_32760612759.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/119089_32760612759.html


 
  
 I see two prices on the store, whats the difference between the 13USD and the 12USD one? they seem to be the same


----------



## Shinry

The link is faulty, but I guess with and without microphone. At least that's what differentiates it in most stores.
  
 Edit: Oh it's 2 links combined. And yes, the microphone is more costly.


----------



## Griffith

shinry said:


> The link is faulty, but I guess with and without microphone. At least that's what differentiates it in most stores.


 
  
 Here is the correct link: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/119089_32760612759.html
  
 Yes if you hold your mouse over the "Color" choices the text says "with mic" or with "no mic". The left choice, in this case, is the one with the mic.


----------



## gemmoglock

griffith said:


> So which cable should I order for a ZST? The one I ordered (the straight connector one) is touted as being compatible with ZS3 and ZST. I will soon own both so I don't mind getting another cable.




Double check with other users but my ZS3 is straight. I think ZST is angles as seen in ZST stock pics.

By the way,
http://img.1more.com/2013/10/10/10/2013093013530025.apk

If anyone understands Chinese this app automates burn in! If you don't understand the icons are universal so you can try. I will try translating if I have time but if others can do so please share 

More info here: http://bbs.xiaomi.cn/t-11165083 Use Google Chrome's translate function!


----------



## Shinry

To the people with the different cables:
 What factor of improvement was hearable with them? Is this improvement coming from the cable with or without mic (Does this even have an influence? I just heard about impedance changes in different cables and don't know how a switch will affect it)
 Or is it more like you can only hear the difference when you A/B them directly (with best quality music/if you listen carefully/...)
 Maybe some just bought the other cables for quality reasons and hear no change in the music?


----------



## chompchomps

Ah i guess it doesnt matter if im gonna change the cable!


----------



## gemmoglock

shinry said:


> To the people with the different cables:
> What factor of improvement was hearable with them? Is this improvement coming from the cable with or without mic (Does this even have an influence? I just heard about impedance changes in different cables and don't know how a switch will affect it)
> Or is it more like you can only hear the difference when you A/B them directly (with best quality music/if you listen carefully/...)
> Maybe some just bought the other cables for quality reasons and hear no change in the music?




Hard to put a finger on it, check my review! It's improves detail and clarity but not by a mile. Read others' feedback that it will help more for the ZST than the ZS3 apparently...

Do use the burnin thing on my previous post: More info here: http://bbs.xiaomi.cn/t-11165083 Use Google Chrome's translate function! and hopefully that will help too


----------



## Griffith

gemmoglock said:


> Hard to put a finger on it, check my review! It's improves detail and clarity but not by a mile. Read others' feedback that it will help more for the ZST than the ZS3 apparently...
> 
> Do use the burnin thing on my previous post: More info here: http://bbs.xiaomi.cn/t-11165083 Use Google Chrome's translate function! and hopefully that will help too


 
  
 The download link for that tool no longer works.


----------



## Shinry

Thanks!
 I'm still on the edge if I should buy it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking how they sound stock would be the best I think, then trying to improve what I have


----------



## gemmoglock

griffith said:


> The download link for that tool no longer works.




Sorry the website I read had a hyperlink name that didn't match the actual link. Here it is! http://img.1more.com/2013/10/10/10/2013093013530025.apk


----------



## Griffith

gemmoglock said:


> Sorry the website I read had a hyperlink name that didn't match the actual link. Here it is! http://img.1more.com/2013/10/10/10/2013093013530025.apk


 
  
 Oh, it's an Android app... is there a similar tool for windows?


----------



## Kerkyboi

I see people are starting to own at least 3 to 4 models of KZs.  Sellers need to start selling the ZST, ZS3 and ATR in a bundle.  

By the way, what comply tips best fit these KZ models? T100, T200 or T400? Still haven't got my pairs and I feel like ordering some foam tips already.


----------



## Griffith

I just received the KZ ZS3 and although I probably won't do a proper writeup on them until at least a few days just want to share my first-impressions of them.
  

definitely not as balanced as the KZ ATE
soundstage feels narrower than the ATE
vocals are nice and smooth, so are some instruments like guitars and pianos
lows seem to be more emphasized than the highs.
the fit is and seal is more comfortable to achieve in my ears than the ATE. That's partially due to the cable which can be molded around your ears near the plugs, and partially because the overall shame of the shell is rounder


----------



## Saoshyant

Already had the ATE which is amusing when you realize just how much bass eq it can handle, as well as the ZS3 which I enjoy the sound sig of quite a bit. ATR & ZST Colorful were just ordered, so those'll be fun to try.


----------



## zephyr11

i got the zst in crystal for the same price as the black ones. and the cables are supposed to work exclusively for one only. at least that is what i understand.


----------



## doggiemom

zephyr11 said:


> i got the zst in crystal for the same price as the black ones. and the cables are supposed to work exclusively for one only. at least that is what i understand.


 

 I tried to use the ZST cable on the ZS3s, and it did not work.  The ZST able connectors are partially recessed in the connector, so only the tips will fit into the ZS3s.  You can hear sound, but the cables pull out.  How do I know this?  Because I ordered the ZSTs and cable from different sellers, and received the cable but am still waiting for the ZSTs.


----------



## Shinry

Wasn't there a post of someone who asked a seller about the cables and he said you can cut the ZS3 a bit shorter to fit the ZST?


----------



## gemmoglock

griffith said:


> Oh, it's an Android app... is there a similar tool for windows?


 
 Hmm for Windows/DAPs I use this https://archive.org/details/TenMinutesOfWhiteNoisePinkNoiseAndBrownianNoise.
  
 Create a playlist and keep looping. Just take note not to play it at too high a volume that causes damage, and don't run it continuously! The IEM components should be given a break every few hours 
  
 Do note that listening to music is already burning in so don't get too caught up with it. I only do this when I'm free or trying to run down my device's battery  The only "serious" burn in I think people should do is after opening for maybe an overnight session. After that take it free and easy.
  
 Have fun!


----------



## pashhtk27

Couldn't resist the price on ZST colorful, ordered one. I really don't need another earphone but it was just too beautiful to give up on.

Now the gearbest price on ZS3 looks very tempting.....But I'm totally out of cash. :'D


----------



## Lorspeaker

toe tapping music...enjoy all u KZfans


----------



## To.M

Thanx,I am just drinking my morning coffee so it matches well


----------



## train2

I have the thread so far just overflown. I now got the Kz Atr. What models are the best of Kz? What should I get?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Safest models to get are the KZ ATR, ZS3, and ED9.  ZST has been semi-popular over the last couple pages.


----------



## Griffith

train2 said:


> I have the thread so far just overflown. I now got the Kz Atr. What models are the best of Kz? What should I get?


 
  
 I only own the ATE and the ZS3. 
  
 ATE is very neutral sounding, have a surprisingly large soundstage and crisp details.
  
 The ZS3 are bassier earphones, they seem to have V-shaped signature yet I find that highs and some vocals can sometimes feel recessed.
  
 If you like the neutral signature of the ATE, the ATR are considered an upgrade to them and there are some contentious arguments about whether the ATR or ZST are the best from KZ's lineup. Some say the ZST have a lot more intricate details, some say they are muddy. If you consider the ZST you should consider getting the silver upgrade cable which according to some measurements done by a user in this thread, noticeably improve the details and the crispness of the sound.
  
 The ED9 are also very highly regarded and from what I've read I think they are similar to the ZS3 in terms of being bassier headphones.
  
 I can recommend the ATE and ZS3, they are both very good depending on what type of sound signature you prefer. I can't speak for the others because I haven't heard them, I can only repeat what I've read about them.
  
 The ED12 seem to be particularly disliked by many people on this thread, so I would perhaps avoid them at least for now until there are more proper reviews on them.
  
 Edit: I'd like to give a shoutout to the KZ ZS1 which according to some people is the most unique sounding headphone of KZ's lineup. The sound signature is weird, but not in a bad way, according to them. But they were described as being very fun to listen to, so if you'd like to a unique listening experience then they are also a model you should consider.


----------



## hoerlurar

what tips are you people using with ED3c?
 I tried a couple of silicone and foam tips, but haven't really found anything that sounds good


----------



## Shinry

I'm using the large stock tips with my ED3, but have different ones on the way because those aren't 100% satisfying.


----------



## khighly

ZST's:
 Spotify Premium: *Toro Y Moi - Day One*

 Beginning really shows off just how large the soundstage is on the ZST's. Phenomenal. These make the ATE's look like childs play.


----------



## zabunny94

I'm using the smallest tips included for ed3 and ed3m, honestly they're not very compatible with many tips. also i really hate the big housing and the lack of angled nozzle, if it weren't for the fact that i really love ed3 sound, i would throw them away already.

hopefully my double and triple flange tips that i ordered fit them


----------



## Shinry

Btw.  I was able to use the InAir1 with the ED3, so many 5mm tips should fit, right?


----------



## To.M

khighly said:


> ZST's:
> Spotify Premium: *Toro Y Moi - Day One*
> 
> 
> Beginning really shows off just how large the soundstage is on the ZST's. Phenomenal. These make the ATE's look like childs play.




That is what I am trying to tell about ZST here from the moment I got them, they are flipping good!  My ATE, which I like, are no match for ZST.

Yesterday evening I listened to Edgar Meyer - Bass & Mandolin and with ZST it was a real pleasure


----------



## Shadowsora

Ordered 2x ATRs because ATE was my favorite IEM and it broke some months ago.
 Reading about ZST the opinions are 50-50 some find them mediocre or straight up bad and some really like them.
 I figured(from what I read) that it has a superb soundstage but the bass cover up the mids so vocals are recessed, still tempted to get them, I haven't tried BAs and this is really attractive...


----------



## Griffith

shadowsora said:


> Ordered 2x ATRs because ATE was my favorite IEM and it broke some months ago.
> Reading about ZST the opinions are 50-50 some find them mediocre or straight up bad and some really like them.
> I figured(from what I read) that it has a superb soundstage but the bass cover up the mids so vocals are recessed, still tempted to get them, I haven't tried BAs and this is really attractive...


 
  
 I've read those same types of comments, and I share the same concerns as you, but then I read comments by other people and they say the opposite. They say that the level of details and clarity they get out of the ZST is easily superior to the ATE and not to say one side is lying, everyone has different impressions and preferences about headphones, but when I looked at the profiles of the people making positive comments about the ZST and compared them to some of the people criticizing them, the people who commended the ZST in general seemed to be people who had a lot of experience with many earphones of different brands and much higher budgets whereas those that criticized didn't, or at least some didn't that portion of their profiles updated.
  
 If you read this thread, particularly the last 30ish pages without any context you might assume that the ATE are worth skipping over, whereas I kind of prefer them to the ZS3, even though the ZS3 have better features and have a more engaging sound, particularly with some types of tracks (I'm using them right now). My ZST are on order, have been for at least a couple of weeks and should be arriving sometime next week. If you don't mind waiting a few days longer I will post my impressions on this thread. I'm not saying my opinion is better than anyone else's, but at least I'm coming to the ZST from the same place you are: from adoring the KZ ATE and wanting to try other products from the KZ line.


----------



## To.M

Waiting for your impressions, the more, the better!


----------



## gemmoglock

griffith said:


> I've read those same types of comments, and I share the same concerns as you, but then I read comments by other people and they say the opposite. They say that the level of details and clarity they get out of the ZST is easily superior to the ATE and not to say one side is lying, everyone has different impressions and preferences about headphones, but when I looked at the profiles of the people making positive comments about the ZST and compared them to some of the people criticizing them, the people who commended the ZST in general seemed to be people who had a lot of experience with many earphones of different brands and much higher budgets whereas those that criticized didn't, or at least some didn't that portion of their profiles updated.
> 
> If you read this thread, particularly the last 30ish pages without any context you might assume that the ATE are worth skipping over, whereas I kind of prefer them to the ZS3, even though the ZS3 have better features and have a more engaging sound, particularly with some types of tracks (I'm using them right now). My ZST are on order, have been for at least a couple of weeks and should be arriving sometime next week. If you don't mind waiting a few days longer I will post my impressions on this thread. I'm not saying my opinion is better than anyone else's, but at least I'm coming to the ZST from the same place you are: from adoring the KZ ATE and wanting to try other products from the KZ line.


 
  
 The ZST seems to be quite tip sensitive and performs better with the silver cables. I had shipping issues plus wanted to spend money on a DAP instead so when my ZST seller ran out of stock I requested a refund rather than wait. I'm eagerly awaiting your comparisons since you will have the 3 most commended in the KZ range (ATR is close enough to the ATE for most purposes). Have fun


----------



## Griffith

gemmoglock said:


> The ZST seems to be quite tip sensitive and performs better with the silver cables. I had shipping issues plus wanted to spend money on a DAP instead so when my ZST seller ran out of stock I requested a refund rather than wait. I'm eagerly awaiting your comparisons since you will have the 3 most commended in the KZ range (ATR is close enough to the ATE for most purposes). Have fun


 
  
 I will also be receiving the ATR at some point, it might be next week with some luck but I doubt it. I have the silver cables on order but they probably won't arrive until either the end of December or start of January. At some point I'll be able to make comparisons between the KZ ATE, ATR, ZST, ZS3, ED9 and ZS1 (which I've read are very unique and fun) and I'll also test the ZS3 and ZST with silver cable upgrades as I also ordered both of them.
  
 If you guys wish I can also compare them with some other highly regarded IEMs from other brands like the **** UE, Tennmak Pro and Somic V4 but that will probably only happen in January.


----------



## gemmoglock

griffith said:


> I will also be receiving the ATR at some point, it might be next week with some luck but I doubt it. I have the silver cables on order but they probably won't arrive until either the end of December or start of January. At some point I'll be able to make comparisons between the KZ ATE, ATR, ZST, ZS3, ED9 and ZS1 (which I've read are very unique and fun) and I'll also test the ZS3 and ZST with silver cable upgrades as I also ordered both of them.
> 
> If you guys wish I can also compare them with some other highly regarded IEMs from other brands like the **** UE, Tennmak Pro and Somic V4 but that will probably only happen in January.


 
  
 Yes please  But don't rush as my wallet is at an all-time lightness..... KZ should give many of you guys out here awards for brand loyalty! Haha.


----------



## Griffith

gemmoglock said:


> Yes please  But don't rush as my wallet is at an all-time lightness..... KZ should give many of you guys out here awards for brand loyalty! Haha.


 
  
 It's not brand loyalty, I simply appreciate good sound and KZ makes a lot of affordable products with good sound.


----------



## Kerkyboi

Does anybody here use comply tips on their KZ's? May I know what size best fits them? T100, T200 or T400? Planning to order some while waiting for my earphones to arrive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers!


----------



## Griffith

I have a pair of comply S-400 lying around, which KZ did you order? I can test it on the ATE, ZS3 or HDSE (bluetooth)


----------



## Kerkyboi

ED12, ZS3, ATR and ZST 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm expecting the ED12 to arrive this week, (1st KZ I ordered all because of impulse, heck it was good looking and cheap lol!)
  
 Anyway can you try it on the ZS3 and ATE? I mainly plan to use the comply tips on the ZS3 and ZST when it comes.
  
 And how was the HDSE? planning to get one myself to use when at the gym.


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> ZST's:
> Spotify Premium: *Toro Y Moi - Day One*
> 
> Beginning really shows off just how large the soundstage is on the ZST's. Phenomenal. These make the ATE's look like childs play.


 
 Idk, I listened to that song in HD and I can`t call this song having very large soundstage... and this is with my desk setup with and that gear combination has HUGE soundstage. For example listen some Porcupine Tree or Steven Wilson songs - they make that song soundstage "small".
 If I compare that song with my ATE FF-mod - it doesn`t fall much behind regarding soundstage. 
 I also have read many mixed comments on ZST and I suspect that the thing with them is personal subjective taste in sound and main "soundstage" thing comes from mids/midbass-light signature.
 Idk if I will get them myself since I haven`t got much positive comments from members I follow usually. 
 My safest bet atm with KZ lineup "best" IEM is still with ATR which are not quite on level with FF-mod but the thing is - they are not far behind in STOCK condition (only "starline" tips needed).
  


shadowsora said:


> Ordered 2x ATRs because ATE was my favorite IEM and it broke some months ago.
> Reading about ZST the opinions are 50-50 some find them mediocre or straight up bad and some really like them.
> I figured(from what I read) that it has a superb soundstage but the bass cover up the mids so vocals are recessed, still tempted to get them, I haven't tried BAs and this is really attractive...


 
 Sorry about Your ATE. I ordered 2nd gen ATE again along with some ATRs to compare them in stock condition and mod them again. 
 Will post my impressions soon. But from what I get from ATE FF-mod vs. ATR mod - ATE has slightly better soundstage central frontal depth (and better layering/imaging(wider) in it).
 I`m also tempted to get ZST colorful and probably will get it soon somtime if I get some more positive feedback about them.
 But atm I`m starting to collect my money for LZ A4 rather getting any new cheaper IEM`s.


----------



## Griffith

kerkyboi said:


> ED12, ZS3, ATR and ZST
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 400 should be fine for the ATR (assuming it has the same tips as the ATE), they should also work on the HDSE but the ZS3 has smaller tips, about a millimeter thinner tip so I think the 300 or perhaps even the 200. I suggest the 200 because unlike other tips they don't have some edge that the tips can latch on to with their pressure, the tip is straight.
  
 As for the HDSE, I'll be honest, I haven't used them immensely yet and I don't have an APTX phone so keep that in mind. I think they sound similar to the ZS3 but unlike the ZS3 they don't resolve as much details during those moments in a track when they get busy. At those times, the sound gets a bit grainy, at least in terms of the background details. The bass in the lows is nice but not overwhelming or too imposing, but they do make the highs seem less imposed at times, male vocals sound mostly smooth and clear (outside of those moments when the tracks get busy with too many details at the same time). Female vocals are nice and smooth as well and the highs when the track doesn't have imposing low frequencies can get high without being strident or too aggressive. I think they're a typical V-shaped earphone with decent bass, a slightly lesser version of the ZS3.
  
 Compared to other Bluetooth earphones I've owned/used or tried I'd say they are not as warm as the Sony SBH80 which had a pleasant warm sound signature with good bass but they seem to be able to resolve slightly more detail than them. Compared to the Plantronics Backbeat Go 2 they are immensely better. Those Plantronics are the only recommendation I followed on Head-fi that disappointed me immensely, I really don't understand why so many people recommend them or hold them in such high regard, they have a very cold airy sound, the details are all muddy, they're bulky and uncomfortable and because of those two things don't stay in your ears very well which is terrible for any type of physical exercise.
  
 The other bluetooth earphone I have, the Brainwavz Blu-100 are colder sounding, the bass isn't as imposing but seem to have smoother highs and clearer vocals. They don't seem to choke up as much and get grainy as the HDSE, but outside of the weaker bass I'd say they're more or less the same in terms of detail. The HDSE's signature though I'd consider more appropriate for working out. The good things about the Brainwavz are the construction quality, the features (come with comply tips in the box, rubberized wings which help keep them in place, and very comfortable to wear during exercise, packaging)
  
 In terms of fit the earpieces are a bit big but they stay cupped in my ears and seem secure enough, but I'm not exercising with them... I have no idea how good they'd be while running but from a quick "shaking head test" I'd wager they would stay in my ears better than the Plantronics. For their price (around 10 euros on Non-referral link - Referral link ) I know of no better alternative for Bluetooth earphones and would easily recommend them.
  
 I'm sorry the review isn't more detailed, but to be fair I think I gave you a decent amount of free information in a single post, I hope it helps you out. Happy listening!


----------



## B9Scrambler

gemmoglock said:


> Yes please  But don't rush as my wallet is at an all-time lightness..... *KZ should give many of you guys out here awards for brand loyalty! Haha.*


 
  
 Funny you say that. KZ actually sent a few of us this particular Bluetooth headset last year as a thank you....then they seemed to disappear entirely from the forums.


----------



## gemmoglock

b9scrambler said:


> Funny you say that. KZ actually sent a few of us this particular Bluetooth headset last year as a thank you....then they seemed to disappear entirely from the forums.


 Woops!

Has anyone tried both the matte and glossy ZS3? My glossy one's left socket died (both my cables have the same effect so not the cable). My local reseller is willing to do an exchange since it hasn't exceeded 1 month but only has the matte one now. For me I'm ok with both colour schemes.


----------



## khighly

coil said:


> Idk, I listened to that song in HD and I can`t call this song having very large soundstage... and this is with my desk setup with and that gear combination has HUGE soundstage. For example listen some Porcupine Tree or Steven Wilson songs - they make that song soundstage "small".
> If I compare that song with my ATE FF-mod - it doesn`t fall much behind regarding soundstage.
> I also have read many mixed comments on ZST and I suspect that the thing with them is personal subjective taste in sound and main "soundstage" thing comes from mids/midbass-light signature.
> Idk if I will get them myself since I haven`t got much positive comments from members I follow usually.
> ...


 

 Only the drums at the beginning. The rest of the song is fairly narrow. You should get a pair and try them instead of listening to the monetary audiophiles you follow. _You can't really have an opinion on them if you do not have a pair._ Maybe your desk setup isn't as good as these KZ's. They're only $12.


----------



## Viber

Just ordered KZ ATR (and PLEXTONE X41M, for good measures).
 Payed like 2.5$ for both after using some gearbest points and refund.
  
 I hope they'll be worth it


----------



## dilidani

viber said:


> Just ordered KZ ATR (and PLEXTONE X41M, for good measures).
> Payed like 2.5$ for both after using some gearbest points and refund.
> 
> I hope they'll be worth it


 
 Plextone x41 is the best bang for the buck iem for EDM&hiphop. Only downside is cabel quality (use shrinktube on jack part).


----------



## Viber

dilidani said:


> Plextone x41 is the best bang for the buck iem for EDM&hiphop. Only downside is cabel quality (use shrinktube on jack part).


 
  
 I usually don't screw up my cables, but maybe i'll tape it or something.
 I'm curious if i can turn the Plextone into something decent for rock\metal as well (not accurate, but decent\fun).
  
 They seem to have the same sound sig of my Awei ES-900... using EQ, i turned those into fun all-arounders for almost any genre so it'll be interesting if the Plextone will respond the same.


----------



## devleon

So after a lot of reading, I have finally ordered the ZST and the ZS3, whichever I don't like I'll just give away.
 However, people have been saying I should get the KS Starline tips for a better fit, but I have not been able to find them anywhere on aliexpress... Any idea where I can get them? Or should I rather get Comply tips? If yes, which ones would fit (I like good isolation!)


----------



## mebaali

devleon said:


> So after a lot of reading, I have finally ordered the ZST and the ZS3, whichever I don't like I'll just give away.
> However, people have been saying I should get the KS Starline tips for a better fit, but I have not been able to find them anywhere on aliexpress... Any idea where I can get them? Or should I rather get Comply tips? If yes, which ones would fit (I like good isolation!)


 
 Starline tips comes in default with ZST.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Griffith

mebaali said:


> Starline tips comes in default with ZST.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
  Are they these tips?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-6pcs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Original-KZ-Tips-Earbuds-Earphone-Silicone-Eartips-Ear/32723329957.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.11.7MekN8&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10000007_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_10073_10097_10100_10096_10070_10052_10050_424_10051-10077,searchweb201603_2&btsid=26117825-5e74-43e3-b123-28046ce07123


----------



## Griffith

For the ZS3 I think you'd need 300 models (ones that fit 4ish mm tip). I have S400 Comply tips and they don't seal properly on the ZS3's tip so I'd suggest the 300 or perhaps even the 200 if they stretch almost a millimeter.
  
 For the ZST I'm not sure because mine haven't arrived yet but on spec sheets the tip is said to be 3.5mm wide so perhaps they would also use 300/200 comply tips.


----------



## devleon

griffith said:


> For the ZS3 I think you'd need 300 models (ones that fit 4ish mm tip). I have S400 Comply tips and they don't seal properly on the ZS3's tip so I'd suggest the 300 or perhaps even the 200 if they stretch almost a millimeter.
> 
> For the ZST I'm not sure because mine haven't arrived yet but on spec sheets the tip is said to be 3.5mm wide so perhaps they would also use 300/200 comply tips.


 
 Thanks! However I was only able to find 400 and 200 models, but no 300 :O


----------



## To.M

Yes, ZST come with starline tips but if you want to buy them here is a good price (0.55usd in Ali app)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32724406344/32724406344.html


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> Maybe your *desk setup isn't as good as these KZ's*. They're only $12.


 
 LOL, are You serious? Aune T1 (HW upgraded + Siemens E88CC goldpin) + Fidelio X1 with custom cable - ZST better than that? 
 But I really really doubt that it can get close. regarding soundstage, HB3P1 has been closest but still not same level. ZST has better soundstage than HB3P1? 
 LOL, You put me into position I MUST HAVE those.​ 


> You should get a pair and try them instead of listening to the *monetary audiophiles you follow*. _You can't really have an opinion on them if you do not have a pair._


 
 True, audio is subjective and one can`t say much without having a pair. Though, that doesn`t make Your opinion on the "superior" cuz they are only Your subjective impressions.
 They suit for You and Your taste - good. But do consider other ppl opinion on them and ZST do have very mixed opinions. Do not mix objectivity with subjectivity.
 I usually know very well what user impressions to follow and what not. Some of them are quite respected and honest in here.


----------



## Griffith

devleon said:


> Thanks! However I was only able to find 400 and 200 models, but no 300 :O


 
  
 This is the vendor from whom I ordered mine: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Pair-Comply-T100-T300-T400-Earphone-Tips-Memory-Foam-Sponge-Ear-Pads-for-Headphones-4/32756818529.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.9znNfV
  
 I think for the ZST the 400 should be fine, because the link that To.M posted to them says that they have a 4mm opening on the tips: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32724406344/32724406344.html


----------



## Griffith

coil said:


> I usually know very well what user impressions to follow and what not. Some of them are quite respected and honest in here.


 
  
 I just hope people find my opinions to be that way, despite my sometimes lacking ability to describe sound characteristics. I am trying to learn how to describe sound better and always read up on ways to describe sound whenever I make a new review.


----------



## mebaali

griffith said:


> Are they these tips?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-6pcs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Original-KZ-Tips-Earbuds-Earphone-Silicone-Eartips-Ear/32723329957.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.11.7MekN8&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10000007_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_10073_10097_10100_10096_10070_10052_10050_424_10051-10077,searchweb201603_2&btsid=26117825-5e74-43e3-b123-28046ce07123


 
 Yep. That's the one. 
  
 In my case, I use them mainly with ATR and ZS3. To my ears, these provide perfect sealing and a sense of better coherency from the overall sound.
  
 ZST, despite whatever tips (I have quite a few in my collection) I have tried (and been on use for good part of the last few weeks with a variety of audio set-ups) they still sound very muddy and grainy. IMHO, they are the only disappointing KZ IEM that I have in my collection.
  
 #YMMV


----------



## Griffith

mebaali said:


> Yep. That's the one.
> 
> In my case, I use them mainly with ATR and ZS3. To my ears, these provide perfect sealing and a sense of better coherency from the overall sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's such a shame, I should be receiving some ZST in the next few days and was expecting them to be similar, or better, than the KZ ATE. I'll be sure to post my own impressions once they arrive.


----------



## mebaali

griffith said:


> That's such a shame, I should be receiving some ZST in the next few days and was expecting them to be similar, or better, than the KZ ATE. I'll be sure to post my own impressions once they arrive.


 
 As I mentioned earlier in one of the posts here that it could be the case of notorious KZ's QC.
  
 So, mine in all probability could be a lemon.
  
 Wish you have a good one, though


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> ZST, despite whatever tips (I have quite a few in my collection) I have tried (and been on use for good part of the last few weeks with a variety of audio set-ups) they still sound very muddy and grainy. IMHO, they are the only disappointing KZ IEM that I have in my collection.


 
 Thanks for saving me money. I know Your taste and sound signature preference well and it usually matches mine. 
 Though, maybe You have BQ "defective" unit? Who knows, anyway, like I said - before I get more positive impressions from some members, I won`t get them. Atm, I will scrap it off...


coil said:


> LOL, You put me into position I MUST HAVE those.​


----------



## Griffith

mebaali said:


> As I mentioned earlier in one of the posts here that it could be the case of notorious KZ's QC.
> 
> So, mine in all probability could be a lemon.
> 
> Wish you have a good one, though


 
  
 I'm slightly ashamed to say I actually have two on order, the carbon fiber one and the colorful model which was significantly discounted at the time I purchased (nearly half of its current price on AE).


----------



## CoiL

Well, good actually - You can compare their SQ differences (if any) and share Your thoughts. Will keep eye on Your impressions about ZST.


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> Thanks for saving me money. I know Your taste and sound signature preference well and it usually matches mine.
> Though, maybe You have BQ "defective" unit? Who knows, anyway, like I said - before I get more positive impressions from some members, I won`t get them. Atm, I will scrap it off...


 
 Yes, bro. Wait for some price reduction on these at GB before deciding on them.
  
 May be when it is at ZS3's selling price of 7+ USD then you could go for it (you can use the shells for your mod purposes if not for their sound)


----------



## Griffith

coil said:


> Well, good actually - You can compare their SQ differences (if any) and share Your thoughts. Will keep eye on Your impressions about ZST.


 
  
 Sure, mate! no pressure... /wipes sweat


----------



## chaiyuta

mebaali said:


> Yep. That's the one.
> 
> In my case, I use them mainly with ATR and ZS3. To my ears, these provide perfect sealing and a sense of better coherency from the overall sound.
> 
> ...


 
 I suggested you try Ortofon ear tips. It improved clarity a lot. If budget is not about your concern, It has a lot of fun to customize with. I tried it with all of my eartips collection (JVC spiral dot, Final Type E, Ortofon, KZ's tips, Spinfit, etc..) and my own upgraded cables. At the end, I learnt a lot what characteristic of each ear tips be. Recently, I posted sale KZ ZST and not too long just 1 hour I can sell it. Perhaps people in my country feel impressed it rather than here. Same story with 茶楽音人 (saraundo) earphones & ear tips company. His earphones have a good sale in Japan but not in worldwide. In worldwide only his ear tips, Spinfit, is well-known.


----------



## mebaali

chaiyuta said:


> I suggested you try Ortofon ear tips. It improved clarity a lot. If budget is not about your concern, It has a lot of fun to customize with. I tried it with all of my eartips collection (JVC spiral dot, Final Type E, Ortofon, KZ's tips, Spinfit, etc..) and my own upgraded cables. At the end, I learnt a lot what characteristic of each ear tips be. Recently, I posted sale KZ ZST and not too long just 1 hour I can sell it. Perhaps people in my country feel impressed it rather than here. Same story with 茶楽音人 (saraundo) earphones & ear tips company. His earphones have a good sale in Japan but not in worldwide. In worldwide only his ear tips, Spinfit, is well-known.


 
 Ortofon will cost nearly double the price of the ZSTs themselves. And among the tips, I am a big fan of JVC's Spiral dots (I have never tried SpinFits) which works fantastically well for most of my IEMs (except for ZST).
  
 For a supposedly under 15 USD IEM, investing all these extra accessories (that will add up the overall cost) to make them sound right (or acceptable) is just not worth it, IMHO.


----------



## Griffith

mebaali said:


> Ortofon will cost nearly double the price of the ZSTs themselves. And among the tips, I am a big fan of JVC's Spiral dots (I have never tried SpinFits) which works fantastically well for most of my IEMs (except for ZST).
> 
> For a supposedly under 15 USD IEM, investing all these extra accessories (that will add up the overall cost) to make them sound right (or acceptable) is just not worth it, IMHO.


 
  
 To be fair though, if you compare the ZST's price with the cable and earphone tips its price is not immensely far off from the other IEMs which are well regarded like the **** UE (around 20 euros) or the Tennmak Pro (around 20 euros). I spent 11 and 13 euros on each of my ZST and the silver-plated cable was 7.62 euros. Assuming that the ZST is of similar quality to those other two IEM I referred, their prices are more or less aligned around the 20 euros mark, even with the accessories added.


----------



## chaiyuta

mebaali said:


> Ortofon will cost nearly double the price of the ZSTs themselves. And among the tips, I am a big fan of JVC's Spiral dots (I have never tried SpinFits) which works fantastically well for most of my IEMs (except for ZST).
> 
> For a supposedly under 15 USD IEM, investing all these extra accessories (that will add up the overall cost) to make them sound right (or acceptable) is just not worth it, IMHO.


 
 In your condition, If you want to try a better hybrid earphone with a limited budget, I suggest you "Kinera Bd005". Same price level with KZ ZST. It's good once out of box (but still need burn-in). In my experience, KZ ZST need the customized-tuning a lot not only eartips but also a source gear to make incredible sound. I also think about KZ ZST that maybe depend on preference of each person. However KZ's is never my primary earphones. I decided to buy KZ's to make fun on customization.
  
 Since I have a lot of own accessories to customize with. I never feel that it sums up cost at all. IMHO, I thinks silicone ear tips is the one of  the best investment in earphones hobby because it lasts long than any parts. In case of earphones, no matter what the price you get, as soon as new revision or next gen model of them come out. It become less value or make me feel bore to listen them.
  
 By the way, I'm looking forward to the next KZ model, KZ ZST PRO.


----------



## mebaali

chaiyuta said:


> In your condition, If you want to try a better hybrid earphone with a limited budget, I suggest you "Kinera Bd005". Same price level with KZ ZST. It's good once out of box (but still need burn-in). In my experience, KZ ZST need the customized-tuning a lot not only eartips but also a source gear to make incredible sound. I also think about KZ ZST that maybe depend on preference of each person. However KZ's is never my primary earphones. I decided to buy KZ's to make fun on customization.
> 
> By the way, I'm looking forward to the next KZ model, KZ ZST PRO.


 
 I already have **** 4in1 (bought for 28 USD), HLSX 808 (bought for 32 USD), LZ A2S (bought for 18.5 USD). They are fantastic hybrids with each providing unique sound signature and presentation (without any costly modification). 
  
 About to get my hands on Moni One (bought for 50 USD) which according to few headfiers (who have already have them) are closer to the range of unmentionables (in terms of sound quality). Now, this is one IEM that I am very eagerly waiting to get my ears on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 As a long time KZ user (since 2014), I will sure buy the ZST Pro when it gets released (and is in an affordable price range for me).


----------



## mebaali

griffith said:


> To be fair though, if you compare the ZST's price with the cable and earphone tips its price is not immensely far off from the other IEMs which are well regarded like the **** UE (around 20 euros) or the Tennmak Pro (around 20 euros). I spent 11 and 13 euros on each of my ZST and the silver-plated cable was 7.62 euros. Assuming that the ZST is of similar quality to those other two IEM I referred, their prices are more or less aligned around the 20 euros mark, even with the accessories added.


 
 You are right, but for 20 USD I would want them to sound at least a tier better than my existing KZ IEMs or comparable to my other similarly priced phones. 
  
 FWIW, my 2 USD KZ R1 bought around year and half ago, easily outperforms my ZST in their overall clarity (that is a blasphemy, right!).


----------



## Griffith

mebaali said:


> You are right, but for 20 USD I would want them to sound at least a tier better than my existing KZ IEMs or comparable to my other similarly priced phones.


 
  
 That's fair, but most of your IEMs cost more than the KZ do, even with the modifications that are suggested:
  


> **** 4in1 (bought for 28 USD), HLSX 808 (bought for 32 USD), LZ A2S (bought for 18.5 USD)


 
  


> FWIW, my 2 USD KZ R1 bought around year and half ago, easily outperforms my ZST in their overall clarity (that is a blasphemy, right!).


 
  
 That's not blasphemy, there's a lot of discrepancy in terms of quality for these under/around $20 chinese earphones. The only thing that says to me is that those KZ R1 might be worth buying. The KZ ATR are considered by some people in this thread as an improvement over the ATE, yet they cost almost half the price. That's not blasphemy either  I don't have any sort of allegiance to the KZ brand, I just happened to buy the ATE and really appreciate them so I decided to try out other models in the KZ range. We're all here because we like sound, if I don't like the ZST or whichever else earphones I'll be honest about it.
  
 For example I don't like the Piston Hybrids' signature, even though they do have qualities that I appreciate.


----------



## Lorspeaker

....i just cant believe the KZdesigners screwed up;
 awaiting my ZST... haizzz.


----------



## zabunny94

just received my kz starline tips, bought 4 pack of them actually

the small one is my favorite, more 'cone'-ish shaped than regular kz tips. amazing when used with ate for me

the medium one is also good, i like that it feels grippy. i can't make kz ed3m to stay in my ears using other medium sized tips, but this one is just work

the large one kinda meh, doesn't feel any different from regular kz tips

i also notice that the inner bore thingy is longer than than the outer rubber thing, which i guess adding more room in accoustic chamber, i don't notice any difference in sound other than it offer a deeper fit though

tl;dr get the starline tips! it's less than a dollar a pack ***


----------



## mebaali

griffith said:


> That's fair, but most of your IEMs cost more than the KZ do, even with the modifications that are suggested:


 
 Nope, my point was about within KZ range that I have got. With the modifications suggested for ZST (that is to buy a new set of cables costing 7 to 10 USD and Ortofon tips costing anywhere between 20 to 30 USD) will shoot up the overall price like crazy (that is roughly between 40-50 USD as a whole). In such scenario, I feel ROI on such setup will be much lower.
  
 Those hybrids were mentioned for reference POV (as I am already comfortable with my existing under/near 30 USD Hybrid collection) to the other poster who suggested me to try Kinera hybrids.


----------



## chaiyuta

In fact I likes the sound from KZ ZST after my funny mix&match things a lot. I can feel it is superior than a $100-300 earphones from traditional brands. However each person has a different condition. I will try to answer and suggest my opinions based on the interlocutor's demand. 
  
 P.S. I bought Ortofon tips directly from Japan. Its price 680 yen per pair if you buy one pair. and Its price become 2370 yen per pack (5 pairs). Anyway, The most popular one, SpinFit, is the most one I really dislike.


----------



## mebaali

chaiyuta said:


> In fact I likes the sound from KZ ZST after my funny mix&match things a lot. I can feel it is superior than a $100-300 earphones from traditional brands. However each person has a different condition. I will try to answer and suggest my opinions based on the interlocutor's demand.
> 
> P.S. I bought Ortofon tips directly from Japan. Its price 680 yen per pair if you buy one pair. and Its price become 2370 yen per pack (5 pairs). Anyway, The most popular one, SpinFit, is the most one I really dislike.


 
 I got your point, mate. I am not denying it. 
  
 I have even acknowledged (few times before in this very thread itself) that besides the point of each listener having differing audio setups, hearing, and preferences, there is also the possibility of "faulty" product that could play spoilsport in an audio-chain. This may be the reason for my phones not sounding as great as the others who felt with theirs.


----------



## Viber

If anyone wants the ATR, now is the time to buy it on Gearbest.
 I tried to buy it last night for 4$, but the flash sale ended and it was 5$. When i tried again today at noon they decided to extend the 4$ deal for another 12 hours or something.
  
 So only 1$ difference, but hey! you can buy SMZ earphones with that dollar!


----------



## trumpethead

viber said:


> If anyone wants the ATR, now is the time to buy it on Gearbest.
> I tried to buy it last night for 4$, but the flash sale ended and it was 5$. When i tried again today at noon they decided to extend the 4$ deal for another 12 hours or something.
> 
> So only 1$ difference, but hey! you can buy SMZ earphones with that dollar!



I've already purchased like 6 pair because I really like them soundwise and want to have backups and at the 4 dollar price it's a no brainer, also want to gift a few...currently my favorite but still love ATE and ZST are moving up especially with the silver upgrade cable...still having fit issues with ZS3 although I love the sound..oh yea can't forget the ED9 still continues to wow me...value for dollar you can't beat KZ however I think I'm good on bargain IEM for now....waiting for the ten driver.....


----------



## devleon

viber said:


> If anyone wants the ATR, now is the time to buy it on Gearbest.
> I tried to buy it last night for 4$, but the flash sale ended and it was 5$. When i tried again today at noon they decided to extend the 4$ deal for another 12 hours or something.
> 
> So only 1$ difference, but hey! you can buy SMZ earphones with that dollar!


 
 Jeez, bought the ATR now too. Halp, I can't stop - I now have ZS3, ZST and ART on my way as well as the silver cable and foam tips... Let's see if any of these can beat my Shure SE215 I just recently lost...


----------



## fenderbendr

devleon said:


> Jeez, bought the ATR now too. Halp, I can't stop - I now have ZS3, ZST and ART on my way as well as the silver cable and foam tips... Let's see if any of these can beat my Shure SE215 I just recently lost...


 
 Can you give me a link to the foam tips you bought?  I can't find any foam tips on Gearbest.  Thanks.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

GearBest finally shipped out my ZS3 from the 11/11 sale. ED9 still hasn't shipped though.


----------



## devleon

fenderbendr said:


> Can you give me a link to the foam tips you bought?  I can't find any foam tips on Gearbest.  Thanks.


 
 I bought these for my ZS3, since I found them recommended earlier somewhere in this thread.
 However, I don't think these will fit on the ZST? Not sure... Haven't ordered any for the ZST yet...
 I think the ZST has a opening of 4mm, is that correct? If then, I might get these in T200 S/M/L


----------



## Viber

sometechnoob said:


> GearBest finally shipped out my ZS3 from the 11/11 sale. ED9 still hasn't shipped though.


 
  
 You can go to "my orders" and there's a button that says something like "dispatch now".
 I don't think it does anything, but it will give you a good feeling.


----------



## Griffith

mebaali said:


> Nope, my point was about within KZ range that I have got. With the modifications suggested for ZST (that is to buy a new set of cables costing 7 to 10 USD and Ortofon tips costing anywhere between 20 to 30 USD) will shoot up the overall price like crazy (that is roughly between 40-50 USD as a whole). In such scenario, I feel ROI on such setup will be much lower.
> 
> Those hybrids were mentioned for reference POV (as I am already comfortable with my existing under/near 30 USD Hybrid collection) to the other poster who suggested me to try Kinera hybrids.


 
  
 Yeah I wouldn't buy ridiculously expensive tips for them either. I bought some memory foam tips but to be fair, I was expecting to need them with the ZS3 and the default tips isolate perfectly by default and the case just sits comfortably in my ear without any need to adjust so I might not even use any tips with the ZST, assuming the case is very similar to the ZS3's, which it appears to be from pictures.
  
 I spent just over 20 euros with the most expensive ZST I ordered. If at that price the performance is comparable/competitive with the other IEM I ordered I won't judge them negatively for "requiring" some addons to be at their best, though I will mention that fact.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

viber said:


> You can go to "my orders" and there's a button that says something like "dispatch now".
> I don't think it does anything, but it will give you a good feeling.




Problem right now is they're having stockung/fulfilment issues with some KZ headphones due to their popularity... Both the ZS3's and ZST's are apparently in limited supply, or so says customer service. 

I'm still waiting on my ZST's to ship and it's been 18 days now for a product that had a 2-4 business day window for shipping.


----------



## devleon

whitewulfe said:


> Problem right now is they're having stockung/fulfilment issues with some KZ headphones due to their popularity... Both the ZS3's and ZST's are apparently in limited supply, or so says customer service.
> 
> I'm still waiting on my ZST's to ship and it's been 18 days now for a product that had a 2-4 business day window for shipping.




Where did you order? I ordered mine on AliExpress, let's hope I don't have th same issue


----------



## Griffith

Just a heads-up for those who I told to expect ZST impressions soon, I only just noticed that Gearbest has not shipped my order yet, even though I placed it over a week ago on the 19th. My colorful ZST order shipped on the 28th but I'm expecting them to arrive, at best around Christmas, at worst in early January, so it might be a long time before I can share my impressions. My next KZ headphone deliveries will probably be the ED9 followed by the ATR.
  
 The good news though is that I'll be able to test the ZST with the upgraded silver-coated cable straight away instead of having suspend final judgement on them for a few weeks.


----------



## Shinry

Hmmm my ZS3 (ordered 19.11 on GB) and the ZST (ordered 25.11 at AE) are marked as shipped. Lucky me I guess.


----------



## Griffith

shinry said:


> Hmmm my ZS3 (ordered 19.11 on GB) and the ZST (ordered 25.11 at AE) are marked as shipped. Lucky me I guess.


 
  
 This is the first time I've had this sort of issue with Gearbest, I'm honestly quite disappointed. I placed another order a couple of days after the ZST one and it shipped the next day, it seems like they made a major flub with my order and now it's probably buried under the pile of orders from Black Friday, which is exactly what I wanted to avoid when I ordered them so soon.


----------



## Viber

griffith said:


> This is the first time I've had this sort of issue with Gearbest, I'm honestly quite disappointed. I placed another order a couple of days after the ZST one and it shipped the next day, it seems like they made a major flub with my order and now it's probably buried under the pile of orders from Black Friday, which is exactly what I wanted to avoid when I ordered them so soon.


 
  
 Like trying to beat the traffic after work.


----------



## Raboo

After lurking for a few weeks I picked up the ATR from gearbest, I could not pass up the flash sale.


----------



## zephyr11

^^^^^^^^^^^^^


 Nobody should!
  
  
 I'm still on my ZST, and lovin it! my ZS3 burn is should be more or less done (clocked in about 50hr or so looping all kinds of music that I listen to). likely will test them tomorrow. and then burn in of my DT2s. I've got quite high hopes for the ZS3, them being the flagship model. I like the ZST cause they look pretty. LoL...


----------



## doggiemom

viber said:


> You can go to "my orders" and there's a button that says something like "dispatch now".
> I don't think it does anything, but it will give you a good feeling.


 

 LOL!  Never noticed that.  My Gearbest 11/11 stuff has already arrived, but I'm still waiting on the stuff I ordered through KZ's Ali store.  They should dispatch those things now!


----------



## WhiteWulfe

devleon said:


> Where did you order? I ordered mine on AliExpress, let's hope I don't have th same issue


 
  
 I ordered through GearBest.  I'll be ordering a pair of the colourful ZST's off of AliExpress probably next week simply because I want that candy purple-blue (and/or a pair to have at home and a pair on the road, or something)
  


griffith said:


> Just a heads-up for those who I told to expect ZST impressions soon, I only just noticed that Gearbest has not shipped my order yet, even though I placed it over a week ago on the 19th. My colorful ZST order shipped on the 28th but I'm expecting them to arrive, at best around Christmas, at worst in early January, so it might be a long time before I can share my impressions. My next KZ headphone deliveries will probably be the ED9 followed by the ATR.
> 
> The good news though is that I'll be able to test the ZST with the upgraded silver-coated cable straight away instead of having suspend final judgement on them for a few weeks.


 
  
 I put in a ticket to GearBest on November 24th about my order for two pairs of KZ ZST's that I had placed on November 10th (two pairs so hubby can have a pair too)...  They responded first thing November 25th, and told me it would be another 7 days, which would be December 2nd, so hopefully we start seeing some shipping notices then ^_^


----------



## gemmoglock

This dude is some KZ fan too. Apparently according to him it seems the colourful ZST "pro" is really better: https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/RKJN9WED56MK?ref_=glimp_1rv_cl
  
 YMMV but I'm glad I cancelled the ZST and spare ZS3 and replaced it with an ATR and a new DAP since the review above ranks it together with the ZS3.
  
 Now I'm waiting for my faulty ZS3 fix and reverting to my trusty UE400VM in the meantime


----------



## khighly

So the colorful ZST Pro's are a real difference from the ZST's. I can't wait to get them. Aliexpress has them backordered until Dec 1st.


----------



## Shawn71

khighly said:


> So the colorful ZST Pro's are a real difference from the ZST's. I can't wait to get them. Aliexpress has them backordered until Dec 1st.




Nah,they are same.....pro is sexy dual colored shells.


----------



## khighly

shawn71 said:


> Nah,they are same.....pro is sexy dual colored shells.


 

 Not according to the review above.


----------



## chompchomps

anyone can compare the ZST's to **** UEs or Tennmark Pros?


----------



## Shawn71

Is my brain playin tricks on me?......ATR is more of B3 to me.its just has 5-6hrs on it.


----------



## rockingthearies

shawn71 said:


> Is my brain playin tricks on me?......ATR is more of B3 to me.its just has 5-6hrs on it.




I guess so, Havi B3 have a much wider soundstage than the ATR. ATR has much more bass present. I think Havi B3 is abit more mid centric than and the ATR is more neutral leaning slightly towards the bass? This is all imo


----------



## Shawn71

khighly said:


> Not according to the review above.




So you have the answer then already....... Well someone confirmed here thru a trusted seller from ali,that both are same but colors.


----------



## CoiL

gemmoglock said:


> This dude is some KZ fan too.
> 
> Apparently it seems the colourful ZST "pro" is really better: https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/RKJN9WED56MK?ref_=glimp_1rv_cl


 
 Take those Amazon etc. reviews with BIG grain of salt. Seen many like these and they can be beneficial for sellers not users.


> YMMV but I'm glad I cancelled for ATR


 
 I`m sorry instead... they are very good.
  


shawn71 said:


> Is my brain playin tricks on me?......ATR is more of B3 to me.its just has 5-6hrs on it.


 
 Nop, no tricks. ATR does sound very good. Though, it can`t reach close on soundstage of B3P1. 
 Maybe Your source is the "limit" and reason why they sound close? Btw, try KZ "starline" tips with ATR too


----------



## chompchomps

mebaali said:


> I already have **** 4in1 (bought for 28 USD), HLSX 808 (bought for 32 USD), LZ A2S (bought for 18.5 USD). They are fantastic hybrids with each providing unique sound signature and presentation (without any costly modification).
> 
> About to get my hands on Moni One (bought for 50 USD) which according to few headfiers (who have already have them) are closer to the range of unmentionables (in terms of sound quality). Now, this is one IEM that I am very eagerly waiting to get my ears on
> 
> ...


 
  
 How did you get the LZ A2S for 18.5 USD!?


----------



## Shawn71

rockingthearies said:


> I guess so, Havi B3 have a much wider soundstage than the ATR. ATR has much more bass present. I think Havi B3 is abit more mid centric than and the ATR is more neutral leaning slightly towards the bass? This is all imo




Oh ok....but my pair reveals better mids and bass is bit hollow but extends well. up top is same as b3 so the Soundstage & imaging,that are closer if not miles away.oh well, let me wait and see.


----------



## Euljiro

I notice something new with my pair of ATRs. They are good in low to moderate volume, but when the volume is at a head-banging level. They are sooooo screw**** excellent. Absolutely sublime, The ZSTs are also excellent even at moderate volume. I also notice that ATRs are a little harder to drive compared to the ZSTs. These pair pretty well with the Fiio Q1 by the way.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

euljiro said:


> I notice something new with my pair of ATRs. They are good in low to moderate volume, but when the volume is at a head-banging level. They are sooooo screw**** excellent. Absolutely sublime, The ZSTs are also excellent even at moderate volume. I also notice that ATRs are a little harder to drive compared to the ZSTs. These pair pretty well with the Fiio Q1 by the way.


 
  
 I too noticed this.  Not sure if it's just because it's louder, but there's seems to be a threshold where the sound goes from okay to full and super enjoyable.  Bass really comes out with nice texture after a little bit of added volume.


----------



## Euljiro

sometechnoob said:


> I too noticed this.  Not sure if it's just because it's louder, but there's seems to be a threshold where the sound goes from okay to full and super enjoyable.  Bass really comes out with nice texture after a little bit of added volume.


 
  
 Yeah, the bass man. At full blast, the bass is so satisfying. I just have to say to those who have not tried the ATRs, you have not seen the light. Everyone just seen some ATRs in their lives. Ignore the form factor, the comfort and all that. Judging only from the sound, I would definitely pick the $8 ATRs over my $300 Fidelio X2s anyday. All future KZs will be judged against the ATRs for me.


----------



## jmwreck

chompchomps said:


> anyone can compare the ZST's to **** UEs or Tennmark Pros?


 
 I have the Pros, they're miles ahead from ZST in terms of sound and comfort. I'm not sure though if i've got a defective ZST but it is very dull and lifeless.


----------



## khighly

jmwreck said:


> I have the Pros, they're miles ahead from ZST in terms of sound and comfort. I'm not sure though if i've got a defective ZST but it is very dull and lifeless.


 

 Sounds like you have a defective pair. The ZST's are amazing.


----------



## CoiL

sometechnoob said:


> euljiro said:
> 
> 
> > I notice something new with my pair of ATRs. They are good in low to moderate volume, but when the volume is at a head-banging level. They are sooooo screw**** excellent. Absolutely sublime, The ZSTs are also excellent even at moderate volume. I also notice that ATRs are a little harder to drive compared to the ZSTs. These pair pretty well with the Fiio Q1 by the way.
> ...


 


> Originally Posted by *Euljiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yeah, the bass man. At full blast, the bass is so satisfying. I just have to say to those who have not tried the ATRs, you have not seen the light. Everyone just seen some ATRs in their lives. Ignore the form factor, the comfort and all that. Judging only from the sound, I would definitely pick the $8 ATRs over my $300 Fidelio X2s anyday. All future KZs will be judged against the ATRs for me.


 
  
 Yes, agree, ATR improve with amping or enough juice is needed to get out their best. I probably forgot to mention that I use my modded ATR (starline tips) with HW modified DX50 (changed opamps etc.) @ high gain @ 186-188 vol level.  
  
 But at the same time, they do okay with every source I`ve tried - they are just ~15.8 Ohm anyway (without cable).
 Cable itself is quite bad 1 Ohm. 
  
 About Your Fidelio X2`s - I have X1 and while ATR sound very good, they do not come close to my X1`s in terms of soundstage, transparency, layering and full sounding mids. My modded ATE FF-mod is closer to X1 than ATR.
 Maybe it is Your source gear matchup with X2`s that doesn`t give out their full potential or maybe it is just Your personal sound signature preference?
  


khighly said:


> jmwreck said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Pros, they're miles ahead from ZST in terms of sound and comfort. I'm not sure though if i've got a defective ZST but it is very dull and lifeless.
> ...


 
 I forgot to ask and I haven`t seen You mention it - what is Your source gear (DAC and/or amp), file quality and genre You listen? 
 Also, what was Your previous "best" IEM You came from to ZST?
 Anyway, maybe You do have "perfect" pair of ZST but seems then that ZST has BIG QC issues, there are many reports that they sound "dull and lifeless".


----------



## jmwreck

khighly said:


> Sounds like you have a defective pair. The ZST's are amazing.


 
 hopefully, coz I have tried several KZs (ED9, ED10, ED11, & ED02) and they all sounded great to me.
  
 Actually, when I first listened to my ZST, I thought it was ok coz I haven't been wearing iems for almost month while waiting for the ZST to arrive, but I always find it lacking and congested, mid bass is everywhere and the treble seems too rolled off. I have tried boosting the highs with an eq and it became very thin and (for the lack of word) compressed, I remembered that I used flat eq on my ED9 and my old Vsonic GR02.


----------



## jmwreck

coil said:


> I forgot to ask and I haven`t seen You mention it - what is Your source gear (DAC and/or amp), file quality and genre You listen?
> Also, what was Your previous "best" IEM You came from to ZST?
> Anyway, maybe You do have "perfect" pair of ZST but seems then that ZST has BIG QC issues, there are many reports that they sound "dull and lifeless".


 
 My source is Fiio X1, X1ii, Benjie S5 and Fiio E10k plug into my laptop. I also have an ED12 which sounds the same as my ZST, so now I'm giving up both.


----------



## khighly

jmwreck said:


> My source is Fiio X1, X1ii, Benjie S5 and Fiio E10k plug into my laptop. I also have an ED12 which sounds the same as my ZST, so now I'm giving up both.


 

 ED12 is hot garbage and is missing anything above 8k. If the ZST sounds like the ED12, you have a defective pair.


----------



## SjaakTrekhaak

I just want to say I am amazed by the KZ ATR. Such a rich and detailed sound, with really impressive bass for only a few bucks. Especially if you crank the volume up, they really immerse you and seem to be able to handle every type of music really well. Been enjoying them for the last week and recommend them to everyone I know.
  
 Also got the KZ ED2 and ZS3 at the same time, but the ATRs are in a whole different league.
  
 Is there anything from KZ that tops the ATRs in soundstage and detail?


----------



## mebaali

chompchomps said:


> How did you get the LZ A2S for 18.5 USD!?


 
 It was the result of a pricing error (few sellers who got old stocks of A2S mistaking them for LZ02A and priced accordingly) in AliEx 2 months back.
  
 Few of us took the chance, it was a real deal in the end.


----------



## Djsenjaya

Ordered kz Ate, ATR, zst, and zs3. 
Have received ate and initial impression was this iem sounds really depend on how we insert to the ear. And I think for the price it was really worth, even better than "shure se215" kudos kz. Now I'm waiting for air, zs3 and zst. 

Using zte axon 7 and fiio x5 II as the player


----------



## khighly

coil said:


> I forgot to ask and I haven`t seen You mention it - what is Your source gear (DAC and/or amp), file quality and genre You listen?
> Also, what was Your previous "best" IEM You came from to ZST?
> Anyway, maybe You do have "perfect" pair of ZST but seems then that ZST has BIG QC issues, there are many reports that they sound "dull and lifeless".


 
 Setup:
 Modi 2
 Magni 2
 Source is PBTHAL vinyl in 24/6 FLAC, some 320k MP3.
  
 Previous IEM's
 ER4P
 HF5
 SE315
 SE846
 And my cheap trusty SHE3590's.

 I would order another pair. It sounds like yours came broken.


----------



## gemmoglock

coil said:


> Nop, no tricks. ATR does sound very good. Though, it can`t reach close on soundstage of B3P1.


 
  
 Woops I should clarify, I only cancelled ZST so I have ATR still coming 
  
 Thankfully I already bought and received separate starline tips which I'm already using on my ZS3.


----------



## Griffith

whitewulfe said:


> I put in a ticket to GearBest on November 24th about my order for two pairs of KZ ZST's that I had placed on November 10th (two pairs so hubby can have a pair too)...  They responded first thing November 25th, and told me it would be another 7 days, which would be December 2nd, so hopefully we start seeing some shipping notices then ^_^


 
  
 They replied to me today saying they are expecting to receive stock on the 28th, yesterday. I told them if they are expecting to receive stock this week to ship it as soon as possible.


----------



## CoiL

Edit: misread the answer.


sjaaktrekhaak said:


> Is there anything from KZ that tops the ATRs in soundstage and detail?


 
 Only 2nd gen ATE FF-mod


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> Only 2nd gen ATE FF-mod


 
 On details as well? I tried open back ATEs back then I wasn't really that impressed(Great but not really that much "Better", different is the right word to use for my case) but then again I don't have the same setup as yours, I got 2 pairs this time probably will try the FF-mod on 1 pair, and depending my impressions I may as well stock 5-6 pairs for future proofing at 4$ xD.
  
 I don't know what to except with ATRs, ATE had a really pleasant sound signature, buttery smooth and forward mids were their pros as I remember them.
  
 P.S FF-mod as open back hole, don't have the option to use wood.


----------



## chompchomps

mebaali said:


> It was the result of a pricing error (few sellers who got old stocks of A2S mistaking them for LZ02A and priced accordingly) in AliEx 2 months back.
> 
> Few of us took the chance, it was a real deal in the end.


 
  
 Wow Amazing! Lucky you i guess


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> Nop, no tricks. ATR does sound very good. Though, it can`t reach close on soundstage of B3P1.
> Maybe Your source is the "limit" and reason why they sound close? Btw, try KZ "starline" tips with ATR too




Yeah coil, I ordered the westone style kz's starline tips on 11:11 and in transit they are.......


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Only 2nd gen ATE FF-mod
> ...


 
 Well, if You remember about my FF-mod, then it wasn`t mainly about making them open back (which had minor effect)  or closing port holes but whole new nozzle from ED9 (brass)  - that has the main effect about highs and details 
  
 Btw, took a pic from my ATR mod:


----------



## ratex

My ED9 arrived yesterday. Just WOW. Incredible detailed and balanced sound.
 This is my first quality IEM and I'm really impressed.

 However, I really didn't like the build quality of the 1 button mic.
 The button was out of its place in the package. I had to put it back. It works, but it really feels loose there.

 About SQ; can it be improved with some burn-in? On what kind of music should I burn it? How many hours?

 Now, waiting for my monk+ and rock zircons


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> Well, if You remember about my FF-mod, then it wasn`t mainly about making them open back (which had minor effect)  or closing port holes but whole new nozzle from ED9 (brass)  - that has the main effect about highs and details


 
 Awesome mod as usual, yeah just remembered that you modded the nozzle as well.
 Welp, I don't have the gear to attempt it(FF-Mod) but will try a simple "Closing the small hole and open back" mod, XD.
 I remember liking that "airiness" of the "open back".
  
 Also what type of connector is that? I would like a removable cable for my ATR, may try that as well.


----------



## MuZo2

Its mmcx connector.


----------



## hoerlurar

gemmoglock said:


> This dude is some KZ fan too. Apparently according to him it seems the colourful ZST "pro" is really better: https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/RKJN9WED56MK?ref_=glimp_1rv_cl


 
 maybe they are different, maybe it's QC variation, maybe it's different batches.
 since the first impressions of the ZST were bad, but the later reports are much more positive, maybe they have changed something.
 Would be interesting to know if the difference between checkered and colorful ZST ordered now, at the same time sounds different.


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if You remember about my FF-mod, then it wasn`t mainly about making them open back (which had minor effect)  or closing port holes but whole new nozzle from ED9 (brass)  - that has the main effect about highs and details
> ...


 
 Typical MMCX connector. It`s quite easy to implement with ATR/ATE/ATE-S.
  
 Btw, will probably try to use modified ED9 gold nozzles on ATR too but I doubt that it will improve soundstage/details further.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

griffith said:


> They replied to me today saying they are expecting to receive stock on the 28th, yesterday. I told them if they are expecting to receive stock this week to ship it as soon as possible.




This is great news, would be lovely to see my pair finally ship ^_^


----------



## devleon

The colorful ZST and silver cable ordered 2 days ago from the official Aliexpress Store just shipped a couple minutes ago  And my ZS3 should arrive today, yay


----------



## Griffith

devleon said:


> The colorful ZST and silver cable ordered 2 days ago from the official Aliexpress Store just shipped a couple minutes ago  And my ZS3 should arrive today, yay


 
  
 The ZS3 are pretty fun, I go back and forth between them and the KZ ATE. What they lack in articulation and imaging that the ATE have, they make up with nice bass and a more fun warm sound.


----------



## frusciantees

hi guys, I've received my ZS3 yesterday, I tried to plug the cable to the iem but it seems the left one are harder to plug than the right one and not plugged in completely like the right side. Is there somebody here having the problem like this? 
I bought them because my ATR's housing broke on both side, I hope the ZS3 better than the ATR 
thanks before


----------



## Toulouse

Anyone have experience with the Aliexpress seller KZ Official Store? I ordered two iem's on 11.11 and it appears they've yet to ship (I have a tracking # but it doesn't seem to be real). I figured they wouldn't arrive till December, but thought they would have shipped by now.


----------



## CoiL

frusciantees said:


> ...my ATR's housing broke on both side,


 
 Meh? How? They are very durable imo.


----------



## Shawn71

frusciantees said:


> hi guys, I've received my ZS3 yesterday, I tried to plug the cable to the iem but it seems the left one are harder to plug than the right one and not plugged in completely like the right side. Is there somebody here having the problem like this?
> I bought them because my ATR's housing broke on both side, I hope the ZS3 better than the ATR
> thanks before




Check to see if the 2 pins and female socket of ZS3 are of no difference in diameter..of both ear-pieces and/or try plugging the right side cable into left ear-piece....strange on ATR,So you meant to say that both shells of ATR broke or its just the glued parts came apart?


----------



## VShaft

toulouse said:


> Anyone have experience with the Aliexpress seller KZ Official Store? I ordered two iem's on 11.11 and it appears they've yet to ship (I have a tracking # but it doesn't seem to be real). I figured they wouldn't arrive till December, but thought they would have shipped by now.


 
  
 I do. Ordered KZ cables for repairs on another pair of headphones, also on 11.11. They shipped it the very next day, and the order came in record time (10 days) to Croatia. Plus, they sent 2 cables (I thought it would only be 1) and both came in an IEM carrying case which was apparently a gift. So from my experience, they're legit.


----------



## Shadowsora

vshaft said:


> I do. Ordered KZ cables for repairs on another pair of headphones, also on 11.11. They shipped it the very next day, and the order came in record time (10 days) to Croatia. Plus, they sent 2 cables (I thought it would only be 1) and both came in an IEM carrying case which was apparently a gift. So from my experience, they're legit.


 
 The ones they sell for $2~? I was about to pull the trigger on 3-4 for some MH1 recabling like the old times.
 Glad to hear they are generous.


----------



## thekenta

You guys with the ZST...
 I already have the ATR and ZS3 on the way.
  
 Can anyone give me their opinion on what would be the smarter choice:
 - getting a colored ZST with the silver cable or a Tennmak Pro (19$ at the moment)
 - or not becoming an addict (that might be too late) and rather wait for the ATR and ZS3 to arrive


----------



## B9Scrambler

Really want my ZST. Paid for express shipping and so it took just over a week to get from China to Canada. Now it's taking just as much time for Canada Post to move it from B.C. to Ontario. They were supposed to arrive on the 24th and the expected delivery date is today, however they're listed as having just left Richmond. Canada Post is dropping the ball on this one, haha.


----------



## Griffith

thekenta said:


> You guys with the ZST...
> I already have the ATR and ZS3 on the way.
> 
> Can anyone give me their opinion on what would be the smarter choice:
> ...


 
  
 Right now, I'd avoid the ZST because of the very conflicting opinions. I ordered a couple myself because I read some opinions about them that convinced me to try them out but at this moment I'm not sure if they have quality control issues or are an improved version of the ATR.
  
 The Tennmak Pro also have their own quality control issues, particularly with the cable, but other than that they are quite well regarded, though I wouldn't recommend it if you like decent bass, that apparently is one of the weak points of the Tennmak Pro.


----------



## Octave0

Hey, i received my checkered kz zst's today morning (ordered from gearbest), i tried them briefly before putting them on burn, i got to say i dont hear any mid bass bloat tried several sources they sound bright with piercing treble and not bass heavy as i anticipated reading other members impressions, i do prefer a warmer sound signature but the clear clarity with not overpowering bass makes me like how these sound , the bass is abit splashy but controlled, im using the stock cables too, i will let them burn in then try them again, maybe kz do have some qc issues going on, another earphone i got last week was the yinyw s1 which in my opinion due to personal prefrence sound better then the zst's.


----------



## CoiL

octave0 said:


> *yinyw s1* which in my opinion due to personal prefrence sound better then the zst's.


 
 Hmmm, interesting. Last Yinjw I got was wooden IE800 which was quite good but V-shaped. Modded them little and for EDM they turned out very good with deep, powerful (but not boomy) and quite accurate bass that has no bleed into other FR. 
  
 Sorry for OT.


----------



## VShaft

shadowsora said:


> The ones they sell for $2~? I was about to pull the trigger on 3-4 for some MH1 recabling like the old times.
> Glad to hear they are generous.


 

 Yup, that's the one. I was searching the net for quality (but still affordable) cables to repair my phones, and stumbled upon a thread somewhere people highly praised KZ and their cables as very durable (but for the life of me, I can't remember the site I found it on). Funnily, that's how I found about KZ in the first place. The headphones in question were beyond repair and are in the dumpster now, but I have a new IEM favorite 
  
 Speaking of which, does KZ have an official website or something? It's kind hard to keep track of all their IEMs considering the frequency they're putting them out. It'd be helpful to have an overview of their products for comparison purposes.
  
 I'm really grateful for KZ (and this forum) for opening my eyes towards quality, affordable earphones. I wasn't aware you can actually enjoy great sound without having to spend hundreds or thousands of $. I've also ordered the *ZS2*. They don't seem to be too popular here on the forum, but I was simply too curious about the double-drivers as I've never had such earphones before. And, my awesome little ATE-S's also convinced me to get my first amp - the FiiO A1, which still has to arrive. Can't remember when I was this excited about music!


----------



## To.M

octave0 said:


> Hey, i received my checkered kz zst's today morning (ordered from gearbest), i tried them briefly before putting them on burn, i got to say i dont hear any mid bass bloat tried several sources they sound bright with piercing treble and not bass heavy as i anticipated reading other members impressions, i do prefer a warmer sound signature but the clear clarity with not overpowering bass makes me like how these sound , the bass is abit splashy but controlled, im using the stock cables too, i will let them burn in then try them again, maybe kz do have some qc issues going on, another earphone i got last week was the yinyw s1 which in my opinion due to personal prefrence sound better then the zst's.




Connect them correctly, find the best tips (in my case only the biggest starline tips) and burn them in well.


----------



## Octave0

I purchased the yinjw s1 because i quite enjoyed the ie800 clone not the wood one though, this one : http://www.head-fi.org/products/yinjw-diy-ie800


----------



## Octave0

[





to.m said:


> Connect them correctly, find the best tips (in my case only the biggest starline tips) and burn them in well.




Yes the biggest starline tips worked well for me too, they currently being burned in, will try them in the next few days.


----------



## RvTrav

I ordered the ZST during 11/11 sale from the Ali store that I can not name.  Surprised to find them in the mail yesterday.  I have found that my deliveries to Canada are usually in the 6-7 week time frame.  I now own the ZST and **** 4in1, two earphones that have had very mixed reviews.  I must note that from what I have heard from these earphones I can not reconcile many of the negative reviews purely on personal preference.  I believe that there must be an actual difference in the sound between some units.  It does seem though that the ZST started off with a few negative comments but lately they have tended to be more positive. When listening to the ZSTs last night and today I used a Fiio X5 with Fiio E12a headphone amp.  My preference for music genres is rock, symphonic metal and electronic.  My music is a combination of hd flac (96/24), regular flac and 320kbps MP3.  My preferred sound signature is toward neutral mids and treble with some boost to the bass. I found the ZST to be very clear and detailed.  The treble is well extended and detailed.  The treble is very revealing and with poorer quality recordings can on occasion be harsh.  The mids are a little forward and show off female vocals very well.  The bass is full but well controlled.  When listening to Jewel, Who Will Save Your Soul (flac) I actually got a shiver down my spine from the clarity of her vocals.  Fleetwood Mac, Gold Dust Woman (flac 96/24 from DVD-A), Schiller, Under My Skin (flac), Genesis, A Trick of the Tail (flac), Roger Hodgson, London (flac) and Delerium, Blue Fires (MP3)  all sounded great with the ZST. I hope that if you have a ZST on order or decide to purchase one that it performs as well as the one I received.  _​_


----------



## CoiL

octave0 said:


> I purchased the yinjw s1 because i quite enjoyed the ie800 clone not the wood one though, this one : http://www.head-fi.org/products/yinjw-diy-ie800


 
 Yeah, I had that one too but it suffered from very noticeably mid-bass hump which totally ruined it for me (I got fatigue from mid-bass). Detail retrieval was very good though.


----------



## ChaoZZ

Can anybody describe differences of sound ZS2 vs. ZST?


----------



## To.M

RvTrav Great to hear ZST give you a blissful audio experience!  I am listening now to Tori Amos - Blood Roses and I have similar experiences


----------



## TheNebulousMind

toulouse said:


> Anyone have experience with the Aliexpress seller KZ Official Store? I ordered two iem's on 11.11 and it appears they've yet to ship (I have a tracking # but it doesn't seem to be real). I figured they wouldn't arrive till December, but thought they would have shipped by now.


 
 Try tracking with 17-track or track-chinapost websites instead of USPS. USPS won't be reliable until they hit the US.


----------



## khighly

griffith said:


> Right now, I'd avoid the ZST because of the very conflicting opinions. I ordered a couple myself because I read some opinions about them that convinced me to try them out but at this moment I'm not sure if they have quality control issues or are an improved version of the ATR.
> 
> The Tennmak Pro also have their own quality control issues, particularly with the cable, but other than that they are quite well regarded, though I wouldn't recommend it if you like decent bass, that apparently is one of the weak points of the Tennmak Pro.


 

 This is a poor assumption. Reading through the last 100 pages or so, the only people claiming the ZST's are bad are the ones who got early versions of them. I have TWO ZST's now from two different sources that sound identical.

 The ZST's are excellent and can be had for $13.


----------



## Griffith

khighly said:


> This is a poor assumption. Reading through the last 100 pages or so, the only people claiming the ZST's are bad are the ones who got early versions of them. I have TWO ZST's now from two different sources that sound identical.
> 
> The ZST's are excellent and can be had for $13.


 
  
 I share your opinion and I ordered a pair of ZST because of it, but I have to admit I have some doubts whether or not they will please me because there are mixed impressions, some of which are from people with a lot of experience or large collections of audio gear. I'm cautiously optimistic that those negative opinions may be a result of poor quality control, but I'm not certain. The other earphones I mentioned are easier to recommend because there are less negative impressions of them and I don't want to recommend either something that has mixed impressions that I haven't tried out yet for myself. I think that's a fairly reasonable thing to do.


----------



## Toulouse

thenebulousmind said:


> Try tracking with 17-track or track-chinapost websites instead of USPS. USPS won't be reliable until they hit the US.



Thanks for the suggestions. The items are coming via epacket and none of the tracking sites show any record of the shipment. I've contacted the seller. Hopefully we can sort it out.


----------



## devleon

So I just got my ZS3 I ordered from amazon (because they had prime and I wanted them quick).
 Anyways, they came sealed, but for some reason half of the packaging was missing, and the headphones were just laying in the box already assembled (earpieces connected to the cable already).
  
 This makes me believe they were already tried out, sent back to amazon, resealed and just sent to me.
  
 For their sound, I don't really enjoy them OOTB. I've tried them both on my Note 4 and a CLARO halo XT on my pc, and in comparison to my DT 990 Pro they sound incredibly tinny with barely any bass - really bright I would say. Did I get a bad model or do I just have to get used to them?
  
 I've seen the ZS3 reviewed so good, so I'm just a bit confused :S


----------



## Griffith

devleon said:


> So I just got my ZS3 I ordered from amazon (because they had prime and I wanted them quick).
> Anyways, they came sealed, but for some reason half of the packaging was missing, and the headphones were just laying in the box already assembled (earpieces connected to the cable already).
> 
> This makes me believe they were already tried out, sent back to amazon, resealed and just sent to me.
> ...


 
  
 Actually my ZS3's highs also felt tiny when I first got them but after a few hours of listening that characteristic seems to have faded. Highs seem much smoother mine and the bass gives tracks a nice oomph and warmth that my KZ ATE sometimes lacked for certain tracks.
  
 Do me a favor and try listening to this music track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDIqjeHN_ds
  
 If that doesn't sound incredible on your ears either try burning them for a few hours, perhaps leave them playing something over night, or ask for a refund because your unit might be defective.


----------



## devleon

griffith said:


> Actually my ZS3's highs also felt tiny when I first got them but after a few hours of listening that characteristic seems to have faded. Highs seem much smoother mine and the bass gives tracks a nice oomph and warmth that my KZ ATE sometimes lacked for certain tracks.
> 
> Do me a favor and try listening to this music track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDIqjeHN_ds
> 
> If that doesn't sound incredible on your ears either try burning them for a few hours, perhaps leave them playing something over night, or ask for a refund because your unit might be defective.


 
 Just tried listening to them with the song you mentioned... After listening to it on the DT 990 Pro first, and then on the ZS3 - there was absolutely no lows at all. As if I took my dt's and just put a highpass on them.


----------



## devleon

griffith said:


> Actually my ZS3's highs also felt tiny when I first got them but after a few hours of listening that characteristic seems to have faded. Highs seem much smoother mine and the bass gives tracks a nice oomph and warmth that my KZ ATE sometimes lacked for certain tracks.
> 
> Do me a favor and try listening to this music track: ...
> 
> If that doesn't sound incredible on your ears either try burning them for a few hours, perhaps leave them playing something over night, or ask for a refund because your unit might be defective.


 
 I just listened to them again with the track you mentioned... After listening to it first on my dt 990 pro, the ZS3 in comparison just sounded like I put a highpass on them - there was absolutely no lows or bass present. They highs even sound a tad bit painful.
  
 I'll let them burn in over night, maybe there will be a difference.


----------



## B9Scrambler

devleon said:


> So I just got my ZS3 I ordered from amazon (because they had prime and I wanted them quick).
> Anyways, they came sealed, but for some reason half of the packaging was missing, and the headphones were just laying in the box already assembled (earpieces connected to the cable already).
> 
> This makes me believe they were already tried out, sent back to amazon, resealed and just sent to me.
> ...


 
  
 It sounds like you certainly did get a returned product which isn't cool. I personally would ask for a refund or replacement.
  
 Second, it also sounds like you're not getting a good seal. Maybe try out the largest tips first and work down from there. They should be far from tinny sounding with little bass. As soon as you get a proper seal you'll know. The ZS3 can thump.


----------



## To.M

griffith said:


> Actually my ZS3's highs also felt tiny when I first got them but after a few hours of listening that characteristic seems to have faded. Highs seem much smoother mine and the bass gives tracks a nice oomph and warmth that my KZ ATE sometimes lacked for certain tracks.
> 
> Do me a favor and try listening to this music track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDIqjeHN_ds




Well, this track definitely sounds good with my ZST


----------



## Griffith

devleon said:


> I just listened to them again with the track you mentioned... After listening to it first on my dt 990 pro, the ZS3 in comparison just sounded like I put a highpass on them - there was absolutely no lows or bass present. They highs even sound a tad bit painful.
> 
> I'll let them burn in over night, maybe there will be a difference.


 
  
 That's definitely not normal. Burn them in for a few hours, I used an Android app for that another used linked on this thread:
  


gemmoglock said:


> Sorry the website I read had a hyperlink name that didn't match the actual link. Here it is! http://img.1more.com/2013/10/10/10/2013093013530025.apk


 
  
 Try running it for a few hours, I don't know how long it actually ran on mine because when I woke up my phone was on standby but I think it's what helped it. But I'm slightly concerned about your high pass comment because that's not the way they sounded to me at all when I got them, they just sounded bassy and some of the low-highs/high-mids had a tiny sound to them.


----------



## hoerlurar

I received my kz starline tips today. I tried them with my ATR, but I'm not sure if they sounded different from my creative aurvana zen tips (iirc) that I'm already using.
I then tried them on my kz hdse (bluetooth) and i think that helped a bit to get some more treble from them.
I compared the hdse with my newly arrived qcy qy19, and the qcy sounded more balanced compared to the hdse


----------



## khighly

devleon said:


> I just listened to them again with the track you mentioned... After listening to it first on my dt 990 pro, the ZS3 in comparison just sounded like I put a highpass on them - there was absolutely no lows or bass present. They highs even sound a tad bit painful.
> 
> I'll let them burn in over night, maybe there will be a difference.


 

 Sounds like another QC issue. Amazon *will not* hesitate to send you another pair. I would go for it. It sounds like you got a bad pair.


----------



## rockingthearies

Anybody is able to recommend me an upgrade from the ATR? I really love the sound signature of this


----------



## khighly

khighly said:


> I got the ZST's about an hour and a half ago.
> 
> *WOW!*
> 
> ...


 

 Coming back on this, most of what I typed earlier was accurate. I've had these for I think about 2 weeks now and have used them as my daily driver.

 - The bass and mid bass are _very_ forward, but at the same time it sounds very accurate. It takes it's position well with the rest of the song when it needs to. Walking bass sounds amazing in Blues songs. Mids are amazing in clarity.
 - Poorly recorded songs on these sound like...poorly recorded songs. I find one of my favorite bands - Incubus - is very lacking with these IEM's. These REALLY shine when you throw high quality material at them that was recorded properly. Just because you have 24/96 PBTHAL FLAC doesn't mean you're going to get a mind-blowing sound.
 - Fine details are very crisp, I've picked out new things with these that I haven't in the past. Snares vibrating while a guitar does a solo, pedals being pushed, etc.
 - Highs are crisp and accurate likely extending beyond my hearing range (I'm only 26 and my hearing should be pretty spot on).
 - Soundstage on properly recorded songs is enormous extending instruments all the way out and around my head. Stero separation is also enormous.
 - Comfort is ok. I haven't had any problems so far and they don't hurt my ears even when listening at night for hours. I have an easy time sleeping with them.

 For $13, you won't beat it with even a $100-$200 pair if you find the proper wire/tip to make these comfortable.


----------



## khighly

rockingthearies said:


> Anybody is able to recommend me an upgrade from the ATR? I really love the sound signature of this


 

 Why upgrade if you love it?


----------



## B9Scrambler

rockingthearies said:


> Anybody is able to recommend me an upgrade from the ATR? I really love the sound signature of this


 
  
 Meze's 12 Classics are actually a pretty similar sounding earphone. You sacrifice some soundstage but in return get improved imaging and dynamics. They also look gawd damn delicious.


----------



## frusciantees

coil said:


> Meh? How? They are very durable imo.







shawn71 said:


> Check to see if the 2 pins and female socket of ZS3 are of no difference in diameter..of both ear-pieces and/or try plugging the right side cable into left ear-piece....strange on ATR,So you meant to say that both shells of ATR broke or its just the glued parts came apart?



Ah, I'm sorry, yes i mean the glued parts came apart and the clip inside broke. I'm not sure if i have to glued it by myself, I'm new to this "audio-things"
I have tried to plug it the right cable to the left and it's still the same, but the left cable plugged into the right side its connected completely
so i think the left female socket has a different diameter..? buti can still hear the sound
did i have to exchange it? is it a problem for a iem? 
thank you


----------



## Djsenjaya

Ate and atr share the same outer shell. I had these 2 iems and found out the sound signature was almost the same ootb. Is there any difference between these two? Or we need to burn in this iem to reveal the true sound.


----------



## rockingthearies

khighly said:


> Why upgrade if you love it?



Just wanna test the sound signature of other similar sounding iems, i mean if I can find a better one why not hahahsha


----------



## Shawn71

frusciantees said:


> Ah, I'm sorry, yes i mean the glued parts came apart and the clip inside broke. I'm not sure if i have to glued it by myself, I'm new to this "audio-things"
> I have tried to plug it the right cable to the left and it's still the same, but the left cable plugged into the right side its connected completely
> so i think the left female socket has a different diameter..? buti can still hear the sound
> did i have to exchange it? is it a problem for a iem?
> thank you




 No problem!.....Ok so I assume that you were able to plug the right cable into left socket partially but not to its full length (pins), Is my understanding correct?
If so,see if theres any glue residue thats actually blocking the pins path.

Otoh, You can easily figure out the sockets diameter using a magnifier if not with your naked eyes or take a picture of left and right shells side by side to check.


----------



## frusciantees

shawn71 said:


> No problem!.....Ok so I assume that you were able to plug the right cable into left socket partially but not to its full length (pins), Is my understanding correct?
> If so,see if theres any glue residue thats actually blocking the pins path.
> 
> Otoh, You can easily figure out the sockets diameter using a magnifier if not with your naked eyes or take a picture of left and right shells side by side to check.




yes that's right, now I can plug the pins completely but I have to put an extra power to plug,
and.. its so hard to unplug it right now haha

I'm not see a residue in the pins.. is there anything I can do to clean the female socket? I've checked it but I'm not 100% sure there is no residue..

hmm this is strange, all I see is the left socket is a little bit bigger than the right one..

thank you


----------



## gemmoglock

djsenjaya said:


> Ate and atr share the same outer shell. I had these 2 iems and found out the sound signature was almost the same ootb. Is there any difference between these two? Or we need to burn in this iem to reveal the true sound.


 
 You can burn it in and also adjust to make sure you get a good fit.
  
 I find ATR better extension both ends, and slightly smoother treble. Others have found that ATE soundstage is better though I don't feel it's very different. 
  
 For burn in you can try my method at the bottom of my ZS3 review (see signature below).
  
 I am also happy to update that my glossy ZS3 was replaced with a matte one. I hope my connection doesn't die again  Maybe due to psychological burn in, the matte ones don't sound like they need much burning in this time.... Still burning in when I'm free anyway though.


----------



## zephyr11

had let the zs3 play all kinds of music for almost a week now, total of about 30+hrs? had about 2hrs with it earlier today, damn it is good. amazing what 8mm DD can do, really like them, no audiophile here, but i could tell the diff between these and my um2s, not sure why but they sound quite a bit better. clearer, brighter, bassier, only thing i didn't really like was that the cables are a tad stiff, doesn't hook your ear, and doesn't really conform to the shape you press. i did have to turn them up a little more though. i'm not too sure what other details i should give, but Diana Krall did sound like she was standing in front of me singing to me, and that put a smile on my face, for what it's worth.


----------



## gemmoglock

Just noticed! The ATR with mic is on GearBest flash sale now at 4+ USD 
  
 EDIT: I have removed the link in compliance with the practice here. Want to clarify I genuinely believe they are good but it is your choice to research and decide if it fits your needs 
  


zephyr11 said:


> had let the zs3 play all kinds of music for almost a week now, total of about 30+hrs? had about 2hrs with it earlier today, damn it is good. amazing what 8mm DD can do, really like them, no audiophile here, but i could tell the diff between these and my um2s, not sure why but they sound quite a bit better. clearer, brighter, bassier, only thing i didn't really like was that the cables are a tad stiff, doesn't hook your ear, and doesn't really conform to the shape you press. i did have to turn them up a little more though. i'm not too sure what other details i should give, but Diana Krall did sound like she was standing in front of me singing to me, and that put a smile on my face, for what it's worth.


 
 Yeah, I get the same good vibes too! The only nitpick I have is it is a touch grainy for both my old and replaced ones compared to my UE200/400.


----------



## Lorspeaker

http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_327728.html
  
 Late joining this tribe...but this $8-bird really SING !!  CRYSTAL


----------



## To.M

zephyr11 I guess ZS3 are single-driver earphones? ZS1/2 were DD.

Lorspeaker
You got your first KZ phones?


----------



## Shadowsora

More mist on the ZST field, like completely opposite reactions on same tracks and stuff xD.
 Some people on the Chinese thread claimed that you can have opposite polarity with the cables and reversing it can fix some issues.
 Did any of you ZST owners notice something like this?


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> - The bass and mid bass are _very_ forward...


 
 Well, that sounds like another LZ A2S or YINJW ceramic "IE800" to me which has mid-bass hump - foward mid-bass isn`t what I`m looking for.
  
 Quote:


djsenjaya said:


> Ate and atr share the same outer shell. I had these 2 iems and found out the sound signature was almost the same ootb. Is there any difference between these two? Or we need to burn in this iem to reveal the true sound.


 
 Depends which gen ATE You actually have cuz there are at least 4 different iterations. Maybe You got latest ATE (non-S) which was "precursor" to ATR ?
 Anyway, 2nd gen ATE sounds more smooth in highs, has slightly larger soundstage, not so controlled bass, better mids and less details.


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> 2nd gen ATE sounds more smooth in highs, has slightly larger soundstage, not so controlled bass, *better mids* and less details.


 
 Welp, mids were the reason I fell in love with ATE.
 Hope ATRs won't let me searching for the 2nd gen ATE.


----------



## Djsenjaya

Then my ate was confirmed 2nd gen. All the Sound signature as you says.


----------



## B9Scrambler

shadowsora said:


> Welp, mids were the reason I fell in love with ATE.
> Hope ATRs won't let me searching for the 2nd gen ATE.


 
  
 The ATR's mids are just as sweet. They just have less recessed treble and some additional bass extension.


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > 2nd gen ATE sounds more smooth in highs, has slightly larger soundstage, not so controlled bass, *better mids* and less details.
> ...


 
 ATR mids are very good also but the more refined signature (brighter highs, better controlled bass and details) make them littlebit more "neutral" sounding in mids.


----------



## Griffith

CoiL what are the characteristics of uneven bass that you mentioned with the ATE? To my ears the ATE sound balanced though the Bass seems refrained, but I don't notice any Bass emphasis on any particular frequency range. I hope you don't mistake this for criticism, I just want to understand how to characterise what I hear better.


----------



## Kerkyboi

griffith said:


> The 400 should be fine for the ATR (assuming it has the same tips as the ATE), they should also work on the HDSE but the ZS3 has smaller tips, about a millimeter thinner tip so I think the 300 or perhaps even the 200. I suggest the 200 because unlike other tips they don't have some edge that the tips can latch on to with their pressure, the tip is straight.
> 
> As for the HDSE, I'll be honest, I haven't used them immensely yet and I don't have an APTX phone so keep that in mind. I think they sound similar to the ZS3 but unlike the ZS3 they don't resolve as much details during those moments in a track when they get busy. At those times, the sound gets a bit grainy, at least in terms of the background details. The bass in the lows is nice but not overwhelming or too imposing, but they do make the highs seem less imposed at times, male vocals sound mostly smooth and clear (outside of those moments when the tracks get busy with too many details at the same time). Female vocals are nice and smooth as well and the highs when the track doesn't have imposing low frequencies can get high without being strident or too aggressive. I think they're a typical V-shaped earphone with decent bass, a slightly lesser version of the ZS3.
> 
> ...


  This is actually more than enough information I need! Thanks! Im sold! I'll just wait for some good deals before ordering one. 




devleon said:


> Jeez, bought the ATR now too. Halp, I can't stop - I now have ZS3, ZST and ART on my way as well as the silver cable and foam tips... Let's see if any of these can beat my Shure SE215 I just recently lost...


 lol! I feel yah mate. This brand is a discovery that will rape your curiosity and will make you try them all! 




whitewulfe said:


> Problem right now is they're having stockung/fulfilment issues with some KZ headphones due to their popularity... Both the ZS3's and ZST's are apparently in limited supply, or so says customer service.
> 
> I'm still waiting on my ZST's to ship and it's been 18 days now for a product that had a 2-4 business day window for shipping.


 Got the same message from GB customer support. Still waiting for my ATR and ZST orders to be shipped. Told me to wait around Nov 28 - Dec 2 before they can ship my items. 




griffith said:


> Just a heads-up for those who I told to expect ZST impressions soon, I only just noticed that Gearbest has not shipped my order yet, even though I placed it over a week ago on the 19th. My colorful ZST order shipped on the 28th but I'm expecting them to arrive, at best around Christmas, at worst in early January, so it might be a long time before I can share my impressions. My next KZ headphone deliveries will probably be the ED9 followed by the ATR.
> 
> The good news though is that I'll be able to test the ZST with the upgraded silver-coated cable straight away instead of having suspend final judgement on them for a few weeks.


 I think we're all on the same boat here with our ZST's from Gearbest. Spoke to one of their reps and was told to wait til Dec. 2 before they can ship my items. Ordered mine about the same time as you. So now I'm expecting to receive them prolly after the holidays (next year) judging by how slow their shipping is. I tracked my ED12's and the ZS3's which I ordered before 11.11 sales and found out my Ed12's are already with the customs since the 12th but still haven't been shipped out to my address, the Zs3's however arrived in the customs just 3 days ago (waited almost 2 weeks before GB shipped it out). This sucks a bit but all we can do is wait.


----------



## loomisjohnson

rvtrav said:


> I ordered the ZST during 11/11 sale from the Ali store that I can not name.  Surprised to find them in the mail yesterday.  I have found that my deliveries to Canada are usually in the 6-7 week time frame.  I now own the ZST and **** 4in1, two earphones that have had very mixed reviews.  I must note that from what I have heard from these earphones I can not reconcile many of the negative reviews purely on personal preference.  I believe that there must be an actual difference in the sound between some units.  It does seem though that the ZST started off with a few negative comments but lately they have tended to be more positive. When listening to the ZSTs last night and today I used a Fiio X5 with Fiio E12a headphone amp.  My preference for music genres is rock, symphonic metal and electronic.  My music is a combination of hd flac (96/24), regular flac and 320kbps MP3.  My preferred sound signature is toward neutral mids and treble with some boost to the bass. I found the ZST to be very clear and detailed.  The treble is well extended and detailed.  The treble is very revealing and with poorer quality recordings can on occasion be harsh.  The mids are a little forward and show off female vocals very well.  The bass is full but well controlled.  When listening to Jewel, Who Will Save Your Soul (flac) I actually got a shiver down my spine from the clarity of her vocals.  Fleetwood Mac, Gold Dust Woman (flac 96/24 from DVD-A), Schiller, Under My Skin (flac), Genesis, A Trick of the Tail (flac), Roger Hodgson, London (flac) and Delerium, Blue Fires (MP3)  all sounded great with the ZST. I hope that if you have a ZST on order or decide to purchase one that it performs as well as the one I received.  _​_


 

 i suspect your take on the zst is accurate--i've noticed the abrupt shift in sentiment from uniformly negative to mostly positive in recent weeks. there could be some mass hysteria effect going on, but it does seem likely that early batches were substandard and recent ones correctly built. not that i need anymore iems, but it got me vaguery curious if the zst is a real upgrade from the zs3, which i quite like.


----------



## Griffith

kerkyboi said:


> This is actually more than enough information I need! Thanks! Im sold! I'll just wait for some good deals before ordering one.


 
  
 Btw just a quick update I did a 30ish minutes run with the KZ HDSE and they stayed put in my ears without many issues. They were actually less bothersome than the Brainwavz, despite those having the winged tips and Comply foam tips which I find to seal excellently in my ears.
  
 I'd still advise getting some earphone tips for the HDSE because they may not sit or seal in your ears as well as they do in mine.


----------



## Lorspeaker

to.m said:


> zephyr11 I guess ZS3 are single-driver earphones? ZS1/2 were DD.
> 
> Lorspeaker
> You got your first KZ phones?




Ya...from gearbest 11.11 ..
Keeping the ed9...this is a beau.
Reminds me of the Crystal by hifiman or hisoundaudio..brainfog
Gifting away the ed2 n AtR ..they are all excellent for the coins asked for.


----------



## hoerlurar

griffith said:


> Btw just a quick update I did a 30ish minutes run with the KZ HDSE and they stayed put in my ears without many issues. They were actually less bothersome than the Brainwavz, despite those having the winged tips and Comply foam tips which I find to seal excellently in my ears.
> 
> I'd still advise getting some earphone tips for the HDSE because they may not sit or seal in your ears as well as they do in mine.


 

 i tried mine with kz starline tips, and that seemed like a good match!
 i would recommend qcy qy19 instead of of kz hdse though: http://www.gearbest.com/sports-fitness-headphones/pp_368033.html
 less bloated bass, more balanced sound, better clarity on qy19


----------



## Toulouse

Still awaiting shipment from KZ Official Store, but my ED12s arrived today from a different Ali seller. I was surprised to find the right earpiece is blue and the left one red. Are all the ED12s this way?
Also, the highs seem very extreme. Is this typical of this model?


----------



## gemmoglock

toulouse said:


> Still awaiting shipment from KZ Official Store, but my ED12s arrived today from a different Ali seller. I was surprised to find the right earpiece is blue and the left one red. Are all the ED12s this way?
> Also, the highs seem very extreme. Is this typical of this model?


 
 Yes the ED12s have this colour combo.
  
 You may need to burn in and mix with tips, if not you will need to EQ the ED12. I can't remember who did it off hand but you can search this thread and the sub-$100 Chinese Brands thread 
  
 As some others mentioned already, KZ starline tips are a decent option to try too.


----------



## Griffith

hoerlurar said:


> i tried mine with kz starline tips, and that seemed like a good match!
> i would recommend qcy qy19 instead of of kz hdse though: http://www.gearbest.com/sports-fitness-headphones/pp_368033.html
> less bloated bass, more balanced sound, better clarity on qy19


 
  
 I don't mind a bit of bloatiness for working out. I already have the Brainwavz Blu-100 which have much more clarity and detail, well, as much detail as you can get on a Bluetooth signal, so I'm good for now, but I'll keep your recommendation in mind for the future. Btw, isn't QCY an off-brand of KZ?


----------



## RvTrav

@loomisjohnson I have the ZS3 and in my opinion the ZST is a real upgrade.  Like you I enjoy the clarity of the XE800, the ZST certainly isn't balanced like the XE800 but has great clarity and detail in the treble.  I think we both consider the XE800 to be balanced and in that case the Bass, Mids and Treble are all elevated on the ZST (W sound signature?).  This results in a forward and engaging presentation.  The sound field of the ZST is not as wide as the XE800 and the instrument separation is not as good. (but these are strong points of the XE800)   Someone else mentioned that they were hearing things in known songs that they hadn't heard before and I have to agree with this.    As these are a little bright I listened to some songs where I have noted other earphones becoming sibilant and I found that as long as the recording was of a good quality then the ZSTs were not prone to harshness or sibilance.   Be aware that these do not tolerate poor recordings.  The XE800s might not be the best earphone to compare the ZST to but it is one we are both familiar with so I hope that the comparison will assist you to have a better idea of what to expect from the ZST.  I did not have high expectations for the ZST when I ordered it during the 11/11 sale however I was presently surprised by them.  I have the Urban fun earphones on order and I hope to have them in the next week of two.  If you like I will let you know how they compare to the ZSTs when they arrive.  If you are like me and like variety in your earphone collection then I think you will find this a great addition.


----------



## zephyr11

to.m said:


> @zephyr11 I guess ZS3 are single-driver earphones? ZS1/2 were DD.
> 
> @Lorspeaker
> You got your first KZ phones?


 
  
  
 I'm quite sure they are.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


shadowsora said:


> More mist on the ZST field, like completely opposite reactions on same tracks and stuff xD.
> Some people on the Chinese thread claimed that you can have opposite polarity with the cables and reversing it can fix some issues.
> Did any of you ZST owners notice something like this?
> 
> ...


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Now that the honeymoon phase is over with my ATRs, here are some more concluding thoughts.
  
 I think I prefer these over my Xiaomi Pistons when it comes to sound.  Both the colorful and Piston 3.  They seem to have a soundstage which is a little bit wider than the Piston 3.  I'm really enjoying how punchy the upper and mid bass are when compared to both the 3 and the colorful.  They can sparkle when they need to and vocals sound great.  These are probably my go to $5 IEM for best sound at the moment now.  The nozzle is a bit big for my ear canals even with the smallest stock tips, but they're not uncomfortable.  I think my pistons edge out the ATRs in comfort by a tiny bit.
  
 I still like the easy insert that the Piston design has though.  It's easier to put on and take off than these over the ear designs.  Since the ATR has no sort of memory wire, the cable can be a bit troublesome especially if I have it tucked under my shirt/jacket.  Durability seems okay so far, but only time will tell.
  
 So overall, if you are fine with an over-the-ear iem and the drawbacks it comes with, you really can't go wrong with the ATR.  Less microphonics when walking if you can manage the wire to stay behind your ear.  Sound is really great after some burn in.  Whether that be physical or psychological burn-in, I don't know.  But they sound damn good and I can't wait for my ED9 and ATR to come in.  Also looking at the ZST Pro + silver cable.  I'm not usually a believer in cables but I'll do it for the hot looks.


----------



## Viber

ATR's and plextones i ordered on sunday just left GB, let the hype begin!


----------



## devleon

I have to say, after I had such a bad experience with the ZS3 ootb, I do like them much better now. They completely changed their sound in 2-3 hours of me trying them out. 
 On top of that I also let them burn in over-night with the app mentioned earlier.
  
 Still, none of the included tips give me a good seal - like at all. I tried some other tips I had lying around, which did definitely help, but since they were a bit larger than the 5mm, I lost one of them while biking 
  
 I already have some foam tips on my way from aliexpress, but I don't want to wait a month... Thinking of buying a couple foam tips off amazon - but they are like 8€ for a 5 pack (when they're only 2€ on ali) :/


----------



## gemmoglock

devleon said:


> I have to say, after I had such a bad experience with the ZS3 ootb, I do like them much better now. They completely changed their sound in 2-3 hours of me trying them out.
> On top of that I also let them burn in over-night with the app mentioned earlier.
> 
> Still, none of the included tips give me a good seal - like at all. I tried some other tips I had lying around, which did definitely help, but since they were a bit larger than the 5mm, I lost one of them while biking
> ...


 
 Hey try the KZ starline tips, they work well for me! There are also KZ widebore tips if you experiment with your search terms but I didn't try those. I suspect starline works better as the star shape helps release any pressure imbalance due to different people's ear shapes but YMMV.
  
 Nice that you're using the app, I'm doing that with my replacement matte ZS3 now too


----------



## loomisjohnson

rvtrav said:


> @loomisjohnson I have the ZS3 and in my opinion the ZST is a real upgrade.  Like you I enjoy the clarity of the XE800, the ZST certainly isn't balanced like the XE800 but has great clarity and detail in the treble.  I think we both consider the XE800 to be balanced and in that case the Bass, Mids and Treble are all elevated on the ZST (W sound signature?).  This results in a forward and engaging presentation.  The sound field of the ZST is not as wide as the XE800 and the instrument separation is not as good. (but these are strong points of the XE800)   Someone else mentioned that they were hearing things in known songs that they hadn't heard before and I have to agree with this.    As these are a little bright I listened to some songs where I have noted other earphones becoming sibilant and I found that as long as the recording was of a good quality then the ZSTs were not prone to harshness or sibilance.   Be aware that these do not tolerate poor recordings.  The XE800s might not be the best earphone to compare the ZST to but it is one we are both familiar with so I hope that the comparison will assist you to have a better idea of what to expect from the ZST.  I did not have high expectations for the ZST when I ordered it during the 11/11 sale however I was presently surprised by them.  I have the Urban fun earphones on order and I hope to have them in the next week of two.  If you like I will let you know how they compare to the ZSTs when they arrive.  If you are like me and like variety in your earphone collection then I think you will find this a great addition.


 

 rv, i appreciate the impressions and would be curious to see how you compare the zst to the urbanfun, which i rate even higher than the xe800


----------



## hoerlurar

gemmoglock said:


> Hey try the KZ starline tips, they work well for me! There are also KZ widebore tips if you experiment with your search terms but I didn't try those. I suspect starline works better as the star shape helps release any pressure imbalance due to different people's ear shapes but YMMV.
> 
> Nice that you're using the app, I'm doing that with my replacement matte ZS3 now too


 
  
 i tried the starline tips on my zs3 yesterday, but i still had problems with pressure imbalance, comfort and getting the right fit and sound.
 since i received my round foam tips a couple of weeks ago, i've been able to use the zs3 a lot more, getting a better fit with a good sound. here's a link if someone else would like to try the same foams: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comply-1-pair-super-comfortable-isolation-headphone-Tips-headset-memory-foam-sponge-earphone-ear-pads-earpiece/32477744702.html


----------



## hoerlurar

loomisjohnson said:


> rv, i appreciate the impressions and would be curious to see how you compare the zst to the urbanfun, which i rate even higher than the xe800


 
 i have a pair of urbanfuns on their way as well, from 11.11 sale. so i'd be interested in a comparison to see if i should order a zst also


----------



## gemmoglock

hoerlurar said:


> i tried the starline tips on my zs3 yesterday, but i still had problems with pressure imbalance, comfort and getting the right fit and sound.
> since i received my round foam tips a couple of weeks ago, i've been able to use the zs3 a lot more, getting a better fit with a good sound. here's a link if someone else would like to try the same foams: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comply-1-pair-super-comfortable-isolation-headphone-Tips-headset-memory-foam-sponge-earphone-ear-pads-earpiece/32477744702.html


 


 Mind sharing how long the foams last? My main issue with foams is that they get dirty quite fast so I end up spending quite a lot of money compared to the price of the earphones. Jinxed ears haha.


----------



## devleon

hoerlurar said:


> i tried the starline tips on my zs3 yesterday, but i still had problems with pressure imbalance, comfort and getting the right fit and sound.
> since i received my round foam tips a couple of weeks ago, i've been able to use the zs3 a lot more, getting a better fit with a good sound. here's a link if someone else would like to try the same foams: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Comply-1-pair-super-comfortable-isolation-headphone-Tips-headset-memory-foam-sponge-earphone-ear-pads-earpiece/32477744702.html




Already ordered them as well, haha. How long did they take to reach you?


----------



## hoerlurar

they seem to be made of the same kind of foam that other comply clones from china are made of. My ears doesn't produce as much goo as my wife's does, so for me they last a long time.
 I've used similar tips (though not rounded) on my kz ed4 and used them quite a lot while commuting, and they have lasted several months with a couple of hours use several days a week.
  
 to me the rounded foams seem to be the difference between using the zs3 and not using them


----------



## hoerlurar

devleon said:


> Already ordered them as well, haha. How long did they take to reach you?


 
 less than a month. ordered them 26th oct. i also ordered kz starline tips and some other tips at the same time. The starline tips arrived earlier this week, some other foams last friday, and i'm still waiting for 2 small packages containing triple flanges and kz whirlwind tips.
 So it's the usual free shipping china delivery times to Sweden for me; 3 weeks up to 2 months...


----------



## hrga007

i ordered kz ed-12 before i looked at this thread, so are they any good?


----------



## Keller1

hrga007 said:


> i ordered kz ed-12 before i looked at this thread, so are they any good?


 

 They're regarded to be pretty bad compared to their top of the line. [ZS3, ZST, ATR/ATE,ED9]


----------



## Lorspeaker

enjoy guys


----------



## CoiL

griffith said:


> @CoiL what are the characteristics of uneven bass that you mentioned with the ATE? To my ears the ATE sound balanced though the Bass seems refrained, but I don't notice any Bass emphasis on any particular frequency range. I hope you don't mistake this for criticism, I just want to understand how to characterise what I hear better.


 
 I wouldn`t call 2nd gen bass "uneven" like You said (and I didn`t say it like that) - 2nd gen ATE bass in stock is just a tad uncontrolled or sometimes even slightly "boomy" sounding but not in regular way due it sounds more like "laid back/distant". 
  
 Now, what interests me is when did You buy Your ATE and what package it did come with? 
 I`m asking because I got my new ATE from gearbest (non-S version).
  
 The *old 2nd gen ATE* had also same driver color, same port holes, same weights but came with silver/gold cable "reliefs" and in *"shield" looking plastic case* and had following *code on shells: RQ: 016N8M*.
  
 The *new 5th gen ATE* I got today from gearbest came with same *carton+thin plastic cover box* like ATR comes with and has following *code on shells: RQ: 018NBM*.
 It is with golden metal weights, red driver shells, black/golden cable "reliefs" with color markings, port holes on lower nozzle necks).
  
 Also cable seems less springy and rubbery than old one and shell are slightly more see-through.
 And right OOTB the soundstage is noticeably more open and "surround" like with slightly more distant/out of the headstage imaging than ATR. Difference is not big though. Seems I got myself 5th (?) gen ATE ?
 Anyway, seems they have "re-tuned" them slightly *again* and it sounds much closer to my 2nd gen ATE FF-mod than old stock 2nd gen ATE - which is great news for me! I really like how it sounds (with starline tips, haven`t tried other tips yet)!
 From what You said about Your ATE, it seems to me that You also have the newer version than my old 2nd gen ATE (which I bought right after translucent ATE first appeared).
 Since I`m quite a junkie for large/open soundstage - I think I like them even more than stock ATR. Yes, they are not so "in your face" with details but pretty similar detail (if not same good) with just little different soundstage presentation and imaging.
 Now, if someone wishes a tad more openness and larger soundstage, with slightly more distant/out of the headstage presentation than ATR - then new ATE is highly recommended by me, though, my impressions come just with brief OOTB listening.
 I think I will try to make full-wood custom shells "hybrid" dual dynamic modification from ATR+ATE drivers soon (no idea about sound outcome and maybe needs some crossover testing). 
 And just a little dig from the past about earlier iterations of ATE:


coil said:


> There are at least 4 different versions of ATE:
> 
> 1) Silver ATE with vent holes and with black/gold metal cable "reliefs". Driver inside has *red* plastic housing.
> This is my first version:
> ...


 
 Seems like this newer 5th gen ATE has "returned" to mix of 2nd & 3rd gen - 2nd gen red shells drivers + 3rd gen black/gold metal reliefs. 
  


rvtrav said:


> The sound field of the ZST is not as wide as the XE800 and the instrument separation is not as good.


 
 This and earlier mentioner very foward mid-bass and bass makes me think thay are not for my taste. More I read about them the more I suspect they are something like A2S. 
 Gotta wait for more impressions and then decide if I will try them or not. Atm I`m holding back.


----------



## hrga007

goddammit hahahahaha, but they looks so cool, better luck next time i guess


----------



## Happytalk

hrga007 said:


> goddammit hahahahaha, but they looks so cool, better luck next time i guess




Yeah. I was excited by the looks of the zst, but soon found out that I shouldn't buy them. At least that's what impressions have indicated.


----------



## devleon

So I finally found out what made my ZS3 sound so afwul at my computer, while my DT 990 Pros sounded as good as ever...
 Well, as I got my DT 990 Pros I set my impedance headphone setting on my soundcard to high - so while that was perfect for my DT 990 Pros, it made my ZS3 sound like I put a highpass on them...
  
 Switched back (it's a jumper I have to set on the PCB), and now the ZS3 sound amazing on my PC 
  
 Really, I thought these didn't sound good in the beginning, but it was really just an unfortunate chain of events haha.... Now patiently waiting for foam tips. Oh and my ZST and ATR...


----------



## B9Scrambler

Speaking of the ZST, I finally got the chance to spend a VERY brief moment with them last night and can say they sounded pretty darn good. Thanks @RvTrav for the listen. When mine eventually arrive, they're getting some serious ear time.


----------



## Griffith

happytalk said:


> Yeah. I was excited by the looks of the zst, but soon found out that I shouldn't buy them. At least that's what impressions have indicated.


 
  
 I think you should read the latest impressions. It appears that the person, or couple of people that got bad impressions from the ZST have faulty models.


----------



## zephyr11

^^^^^^^^^^^^^


 the more recent ZST impressions are good, no?
  
 I quite like them very much, especially currently with the starline silicone tips, still thinking of which foam tips to get. can't seem to find any decent ones that will fit. I read that comply 200 should work best? and also want to get some foam tips for ZS3.
  
 follow up on the ZS3;
  
 the wires that are on the silver cables, are supposed to conform to your ear. but they end up hovering above my ear. don't really like them, there seems to NOT be a way around it. I actually got the ZST silver cables to twist a little so that it fits a tad better, this ones can't seem to do the same thing.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> Speaking of the ZST, I finally got the chance to spend a VERY brief moment with them last night and can say they sounded pretty darn good. Thanks @RvTrav for the listen. When mine eventually arrive, they're getting some serious ear time.


 
 M`kay, YOU saying it sounded good makes me want them again. Did You listen to colorful or "checkered" version?


----------



## George-gearbest

Gearbest offer lowest price of KZ headphones


----------



## Shawn71

Ok so I tried my tf10's fiio rc-ue2 cable to go with ZS3 and apparently it fit like a glove one side and not on the other.....and didn't play around much then,thinking not to damage anything further nor have time/little patience to fiddle around.


----------



## khighly

Just as suspected, the silver cable does nothing to change the sound. They do improve the feel and look, but honestly it feels lower quality than the original ones.The actual 1/8 jack is really noisy when it gets plugged into my phone or dac as well.


----------



## Shawn71

b9scrambler said:


> Speaking of the ZST, I finally got the chance to spend a VERY brief moment with them last night and can say they sounded pretty darn good. Thanks @RvTrav
> for the listen. When mine eventually arrive, they're getting some serious ear time.




And to add coil's question,which zst did you order?.....


----------



## khighly

ZST Pro's still on preorder from banggood


----------



## gobin

After delaying for 1 week, my zs3 has been shipped out.

Just realize that the ZS3 looks enormous, i'm not sure if they can fit my tiny ears. 

Has anyone had any fitting issue with the ZS3?


----------



## Keller1

khighly said:


> ZST Pro's still on preorder from banggood


 
 is the ZST pro anything more than just a confirmation of the new ZST Revision or is it a whole seperate model?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

keller1 said:


> is the ZST pro anything more than just a confirmation of the new ZST Revision or is it a whole seperate model?


 
 I'm pretty sure the ZST pro is the one with the colorful housing.


----------



## Saoshyant

I do hope my ZST Colorful arrives in not too long.  Ordered from AK Store, which will be my 3rd purchase from them.  The second order was an 11.11 order and it arrived roughly 2 weeks later, which made me a bit happy to see as my other 2 11.11 orders haven't been confirmed for leaving the country yet.  I expect my ATR order will take awhile as for the cost, I can't imagine they could use anything but the cheapest option possible, and I'm certainly fine with that.  I don't need the ATR nor had any real intention of trying it out, but for $4 how could I not?  I'll probably forget it's coming and it'll magically arrive one day as a present to my future forgetful self.


----------



## khighly

keller1 said:


> is the ZST pro anything more than just a confirmation of the new ZST Revision or is it a whole seperate model?


 

 I'll have to see. I've read that they are different, and that they aren't. Model says "ZST PRO".


----------



## iQuest

which ear tips you guys recommend for atr & ate


----------



## DikZak

iquest said:


> which ear tips you guys recommend for atr & ate


 


 Would be interested in that too.

 Having ATR on my way. For $4 they were a steal. Very interested what they sound like and if they live up my expectations after reading parts of this thread.


----------



## iQuest

some posts saying ATR's are improved successor of ATE's were the main reason why i decided to purchase them aswell and for it's price why not, if i'm not mistaken these are the cheapest and one of the best sounding in kz iem line


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> M`kay, YOU saying it sounded good makes me want them again. Did You listen to colorful or "checkered" version?


 
  
 hahaha! Just the regular carbon-ish version. I also listened to the 4in1 at the same time, again VERY briefly, and handily preferred the ZST. The mids on the 4in1 were just way too sucked out for my preferences. I don't know if the ZST will be your kind of earphone though. Can't see anyone thinking they're lacking bass, if you know what I mean. Treble didn't seem harsh or grainy either, though with the amount of time I spent with them it could easily have been missed. When Canada Post finally delivers my pair (well, two pairs), I'll post some proper impressions.


----------



## obelisk619

any new updates regarding the ZSR pro? (the one that is under developmet)


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > M`kay, YOU saying it sounded good makes me want them again. Did You listen to colorful or "checkered" version?
> ...


 
 Thanks. I also don`t like sucked out mids but my 4in1 is quite neutral in mids but this is due to high impedance cable and Spiral Dot tips which gives more "life" to mids section and tames bass slightly. But I also would like to have more mids and larger soundstage than 4in1, that`s why I rate them 3rd/4th in my personal subjective taste profile list and prefer KZ ATE 2nd gen FF-mod / ATR / ATE 5th gen over them. 
 Because of Your initial positive feedback I`m starting to have more faith in ZST but I hope they do not have same foward and inside headstage mids and mid-bass presentation/imaging as LZ A2S.
 Waiting for Your proper impressions!


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> Thanks. I also don`t like sucked out mids but my 4in1 is quite neutral in mids but this is due to high impedance cable and Spiral Dot tips which gives more "life" to mids section and tames bass slightly. But I also would like to have more mids and larger soundstage than 4in1, that`s why I rate them 3rd/4th in my personal subjective taste profile list and prefer KZ ATE 2nd gen FF-mod / ATR / ATE 5th gen over them.
> Because of Your initial positive feedback I`m starting to have more faith in ZST but I hope they do not have same foward and inside headstage mids and mid-bass presentation/imaging as LZ A2S.
> Waiting for Your proper impressions!


 
  
 I'll definitely let you know what I think of them vs. the A2S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  More importantly, I'll also be comparing to the Huawei AM175 which is easily my favorite of the sub-100 USD hybrids I own. That thing is completely underappreciated around here.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks. I also don`t like sucked out mids but my 4in1 is quite neutral in mids but this is due to high impedance cable and Spiral Dot tips which gives more "life" to mids section and tames bass slightly. But I also would like to have more mids and larger soundstage than 4in1, that`s why I rate them 3rd/4th in my personal subjective taste profile list and prefer KZ ATE 2nd gen FF-mod / ATR / ATE 5th gen over them.
> ...


 
 You don`t have to compare them with A2S - just telling me that they don`t have such inside headstage foward mids/mid-bass presentation and lot better frontal depth/distance is enough 
 I`m more interested how those good batch ZST`s will compare to 5th gen ATE and BK50 as I find latter two very similar to each-other in terms of large soundstage, great frontal depth and imaging. Also sweet detailed mids and slightly smoothed highs.


----------



## Shinry

My Gearbest-Order arrived yesterday 
 So 12 days for transpartation to Germany


----------



## mimuweb

Hi guys. Looking for a KZ with good mids, not basshead but good bass, and not excessive and fatigant trebles, with good soundstage.  Is there any model with these requeriments?


----------



## Ruben123

Hds1 or atr


----------



## Shawn71

mimuweb said:


> Hi guys. Looking for a KZ with good mids, not basshead but good bass, and not excessive and fatigant trebles, with good soundstage.  Is there any model with these requeriments?




Any Time Refreshment.......but pls wait for some others to pour in their recommendations!


----------



## Billl27

I just got the zst. One of the better decisions I have made of late.


----------



## To.M

Great, they should even get better with time!  I can openly say, I love'em!


----------



## Shinry

First impressions:
 I think I've got a used or at least opened ZS3. The package had no foil around it, scratches on the inner plastic, also the cable was formed to the wrong direction on the right site (Like someone had tried to plug it in in the opposite direction and then fitted it to their ears) and the package with the tips seemed to be either poorly sealed or opened once. Maybe because of the wrongly inserted cable they were sent back, the right side sounded faulty at first until I rearranged the cable. (I didn't knew how the cable should be connected so I took the form of the earhooks as a clue)
 Nontheless they sound awesome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me this is the next Jackpot after the ED3. Beside a tiny bit of too much bass this is the sound signature I'm looking for right now. 
 Well, one man's loss is another one's gain.
 The ATR actually sounds pretty alike. A bit artificial in direct comparison. Not bad though, but I'll prefer the ZS3.
  
 I've had the Urbanfun to listen to music for the last few days and what I missed where those exciting highs. They are still good headphones and have their treble but it sounds dull. Maybe that's what many refer to as "sparkling highs", something I really crave right now.
  
 Now I really wonder how the ZST will perform. 
  
 Edit: There's a sticker on it "QC 76" so it might really be tested and therefor opened?


----------



## devleon

shinry said:


> First impressions:
> I think I've got a used or at least opened ZS3. The package had no foil around it, scratches on the inner plastic, also the cable was formed to the wrong direction on the right site (Like someone had tried to plug it in in the opposite direction and then fitted it to their ears) and the package with the tips seemed to be either poorly sealed or opened once. Maybe because of the wrongly inserted cable they were sent back, the right side sounded faulty at first until I rearranged the cable. (I didn't knew how the cable should be connected so I took the form of the earhooks as a clue)
> Nontheless they sound awesome   For me this is the next Jackpot after the ED3. Beside a tiny bit of too much bass this is the sound signature I'm looking for right now.
> Well, one man's loss is another one's gain.
> ...




Did you by any chance order them from amazon.de? Because I ordered them there and they came opened as well...


----------



## Shinry

Hi, no I ordered them from Gearbest on 19.11. Many others are still waiting for their order since they are said to be out of stock. So I think I randomly got a return.
For many this would be a no go but I am actually quite happy that I got them that quick and hope they will work without any flaws. =)


----------



## SomeTechNoob

shinry said:


> Hi, no I ordered them from Gearbest on 19.11. Many others are still waiting for their order since they are said to be out of stock. So I think I randomly got a return.
> For many this would be a no go but I am actually quite happy that I got them that quick and hope they will work without any flaws. =)


 
 I think gearbest is known to do spot-checking, so your opened IEM maybe have been one that they tested.


----------



## Shinry

Even better then. Just strange that they would connect the cable wrong, isn't it? But the headphones and tips themself looked brand new, so it might be just like this =) And for those 7€ even a working returned one would be a good deal


----------



## Octave0

octave0 said:


> Hey, i received my checkered kz zst's today morning (ordered from gearbest), i tried them briefly before putting them on burn, i got to say i dont hear any mid bass bloat tried several sources they sound bright with piercing treble and not bass heavy as i anticipated reading other members impressions, i do prefer a warmer sound signature but the clear clarity with not overpowering bass makes me like how these sound , the bass is abit splashy but controlled, im using the stock cables too, i will let them burn in then try them again, maybe kz do have some qc issues going on, another earphone i got last week was the yinyw s1 which in my opinion due to personal prefrence sound better then the zst's.


 
  
 After leaving the ZST's to burn in for a couple of days with an app I have,  then leaving some music playing on moderate volume throughout the night's,
  
 I was impressed I don't know if the burn in helped or not nevertheless this time I listened to many songs different genres my usual playlist with all the songs I'm familiar with, really liked the bass its not too over bearing or too shallow, perfectly timed accurate lows really compliments the vocals with certain songs, soundstage is above average & imaging is excellent from what I hear, the highs are so clear they can take a little while to get use to i think i misjudged them as the treble is a tad bit sharp but indeed tolerable with certain songs i kept the volume lower depending on the song being played this helped my ears get use to the sound them I cranked it up a lil with no problems at all, they have amazing clarity and good detail it brings out the layers of the song to forefront, with the songs I'm use to listening to nearly every song sounded amazing barring the low quality audio I have with makes the treble harsh & bass fuzzy slightly, I listened for over an hour when I was suppose just try them for 10mins lol the sound was immersive it through me off a lil. 
  
 And I take it back no way the yinyw s1 is better then these. I been listening to them during the day & I'm glad I bought them,  they cost about £10 for that they sound amazing. Sorry about my bad grammar just wanted to write a quick follow up on the way to work.


----------



## To.M

My ZST are going to cause me insomnia... almost 2am (again) but music sounds so good ...


----------



## Octave0

lol yesterday night with zst's i was listening to some songs that have deep lyrics & i felt goosebumps lol & i have heard these songs before with alot of iems, the immersiveness hit me.


----------



## khighly

^^ You guys believe me now? ^^


----------



## To.M

I've been enchanted with ZST from day 1, you can call it love at first listening


----------



## khighly

octave0 said:


> After leaving the ZST's to burn in for a couple of days with an app I have,  then leaving some music playing on moderate volume throughout the night's,
> 
> I was impressed I don't know if the burn in helped or not nevertheless this time I listened to many songs different genres my usual playlist with all the songs I'm familiar with, really liked the bass its not too over bearing or too shallow, perfectly timed accurate lows really compliments the vocals with certain songs, soundstage is above average & imaging is excellent from what I hear, the highs are so clear they can take a little while to get use to i think i misjudged them as the treble is a tad bit sharp but indeed tolerable with certain songs i kept the volume lower depending on the song being played this helped my ears get use to the sound them I cranked it up a lil with no problems at all, they have amazing clarity and good detail it brings out the layers of the song to forefront, with the songs I'm use to listening to nearly every song sounded amazing barring the low quality audio I have with makes the treble harsh & bass fuzzy slightly, I listened for over an hour when I was suppose just try them for 10mins lol the sound was immersive it through me off a lil.
> 
> And I take it back no way the yinyw s1 is better then these. I been listening to them during the day & I'm glad I bought them,  they cost about £10 for that they sound amazing. Sorry about my bad grammar just wanted to write a quick follow up on the way to work.


 

 I feel like the bass is very "how it's supposed to sound" even though in some songs it's really heavy and some it's really recessed - as mastered. Highs take awhile to get used to, but they're amazingly clear and precise extending way up the band.

 John Mayer - Bold As Love [Continuum] (Excellent kick drum really shows off the bass performance of these. It's moving.)


----------



## CoiL

Okay, seems ZST quality has improved but now the question by latest posts - are ZST highs harsh like 4in1 or smoother?


----------



## Lorspeaker

okkkkk...opened up my toys..
  
 zS3 has strong affinity with my samsungNote3... a fuller more thumping sound, i can live with this;
 {than off my desktop dacamp ( thinner leaner )...v initial listening,,
 bass has that large diffused spread...}
 have to put in the 100hours for the diaphragm to settle ?
 ---------------
  
 Off the bat the ED9 is very "together"..like a beyer T1 kind of sound, 
 high energy tight slight warmth neutral clear/crystal tone.
 Can be a tat bright/too clear, but u can swap the nozzle to tame it down a notch..just right for my ears.
 Fantastic Buy..
 i highly recommend this as a "audiophile gift" to your frens without embarrassment  LOL.
  
 --------------
 ED2 is slightly less refined than ED9 but still a good iem for pop radio music.
 ...will still get by as a great gift for the "less discerning" in your clan..hee.
  
 ---------------
  
 ATR...more along the soundsig of ZS3,,has that big diffused spacious sound/thump..
 but less of that customfit isolation. Put it back into the box as gifts for the boys in the clan. 
  
 --------------
 My ZST didnt show up....tsktsk.,,this should eat the ZS3 for breakfast??
 i am anxious...intending to keep this for MYSELF !!
  
 # sorry i cant give more coherent description...v brief testings.
  
  
 overall rating...v satisfied.
 KZ is kickass$$$$$$$$$$$ company...and Gearbest their greates$$$$t store.!!!


----------



## gemmoglock

shinry said:


> First impressions:
> I think I've got a used or at least opened ZS3. The package had no foil around it, scratches on the inner plastic, also the cable was formed to the wrong direction on the right site (Like someone had tried to plug it in in the opposite direction and then fitted it to their ears) and the package with the tips seemed to be either poorly sealed or opened once. Maybe because of the wrongly inserted cable they were sent back, the right side sounded faulty at first until I rearranged the cable. (I didn't knew how the cable should be connected so I took the form of the earhooks as a clue)
> Nontheless they sound awesome
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, as another has pointed out Gearbest does do checks and opens up the packages.
  
 My reselller didn't tell me who supplied his stock but said they open his orders too as the supplier is the one that helped him repack the KZs with mic or mic-free cables. For example, my matte replacement ZS3 had a box with a "Mic" sticker but the seal was broken to replace the cable.
  
 Note to new ZS3 users plugging in cables, there are R/L alphabets on the cable ends connecting to the earphones. They should *face out and away from your face* when plugged in. This means that when I hold up my right ZS3 earbud, the I should see both the "Right" on the earbud and the R on the connector facing the same way. Hope this helps!


----------



## Shawn71

gemmoglock said:


> Hi, as another has pointed out Gearbest does do checks and opens up the packages.
> 
> My reselller didn't tell me who supplied his stock but said they open his orders too as the supplier is the one that helped him repack the KZs with mic or mic-free cables. For example, my matte replacement ZS3 had a box with a "Mic" sticker but the seal was broken to replace the cable.
> 
> Note to new ZS3 users plugging in cables, there are R/L alphabets on the cable ends connecting to the earphones. They should *face out and away from your face* when plugged in. This means that when I hold up my right ZS3 earbud, the I should see both the "Right" on the earbud and the R on the connector facing the same way. Hope this helps!




Thats correct on the cable pluggin into the R & L ear-pieces....thx for bringing that up! 

I actually took some snaps to post them here but ended up in vain coz my handy candy has gingerbread and it gave me hell of a hard time so I gave up and decided to post them thru some other source,if I cld.and oh the flying banners.


----------



## CoiL

dikzak said:


> iquest said:
> 
> 
> > which ear tips you guys recommend for atr & ate
> ...


 
 KZ "Starline" silicone tips (smallest if possible).


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Wooohooooo, the ED12's and ZST's I ordered on November 10th from GearBest finally shipped! Now to survive the 2-3 week wait as I choose Canada Post Expedited for the shipping.

As for the other two I own, I definitely like my ZS3's when I'm out as they didn't try to go for a walk off of my ears when I was out and about like the ATR's did, so at least for a quick grocery run while wearing a hoodie they stay right where you leave them. My opinions of the ATR's for going out will probably change when I switch back to short hair though... For listening at home I haven't decided which of the two I prefer.


----------



## khighly

I just got the ATR's in the mail and have been listening for around 2 hours.

There's a reason these are only $4 on GearBest. They are not fantastic. They sound only a little brighter than the ED12's.

While they are better than the ATE's, there is nothing interesting about this sound. It's not fun, it's not bright, vocals are buried, mids are too high and everything else is recessed. Other than the mids being high, it's a very flat and boring sound. They remind me of my SHE3590's.

Soundstage is a not even a close competitor to that of the ZST's, though it's slightly wider than the SHE3590's.

They do perform slightly better on EDM. I find EDM has a lot of nasty harsh highs and these don't have that high extension.

ATE's and ATR are both not something to write home about, but for $4 you won't beat the quality or sound. With the starline tips they really aren't that bad and they're decently comfortable.


----------



## Griffith

coil said:


> I wouldn`t call 2nd gen bass "uneven" like You said (and I didn`t say it like that) - 2nd gen ATE bass in stock is just a tad uncontrolled or sometimes even slightly "boomy" sounding but not in regular way due it sounds more like "laid back/distant".
> 
> Now, what interests me is when did You buy Your ATE and what package it did come with?
> I`m asking because I got my new ATE from gearbest (non-S version).
> ...


 
  
 I apologize for the belated response. I checked the code on my ATE's shells and it is indeed the same as yours. I also appreciate the signature quite a lot, they do sound spacious and can resolve a surprising amount of details in my opinion.
  
 On another note regarding the ZST and those waiting for it to ship from Gearbest: mine shipped today after nearly a couple of weeks wait. With some ridiculous amount of luck I may yet receive them before Christmas, but I'm not holding my breath. My colorful ZST though seem like they could arrive next week.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I like the ATRs.
  
 But if you say the ZST is that much better, I think I'm going to have to end up picking yet another KZ IEM.


----------



## Euljiro

khighly said:


> I just got the ATR's in the mail and have been listening for around 2 hours.
> 
> There's a reason these are only $4 on GearBest. They are not fantastic. They sound only a little brighter than the ED12's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had kind of the same first impression with the ATR when I first got them. But after a few days/weeks of burn-in, i just let music played for a while. So after a few weeks, I tried them again, this time, with Comply tips, Fiio Q1, and turn the volume up. They are soooo good. Silky smooth highs. 
  
 I say, dont give up on them yet. Try tip rolling and try them on different sources, and burn them in well.
  
 I really like ZSTz, probably i was one of the first to start having a positive impression of them, over a hundred pages ago. I think you will also like the ATR given the right set up.


----------



## Euljiro

sometechnoob said:


> I like the ATRs.
> 
> But if you say the ZST is that much better, I think I'm going to have to end up picking yet another KZ IEM.


 
  
 I say go for it. I found the ZSTs to be better than the ATRs straight from my phone (S7 edge & Note7), but with proper amplification, they are equally super duper good.


----------



## Djsenjaya

khighly said:


> I just got the ATR's in the mail and have been listening for around 2 hours.
> 
> There's a reason these are only $4 on GearBest. They are not fantastic. They sound only a little brighter than the ED12's.
> 
> ...




I found out atr and ate very tip sensitive. I've tried many tips. And still haven't got the sound quality what i've hope for. Comply tips was by far athe best on my ear. Still this iem with this price impress me.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

euljiro said:


> I say go for it. I found the ZSTs to be better than the ATRs straight from my phone (S7 edge & Note7), but with proper amplification, they are equally super duper good.


 
 After seeing the picture of the colorful ZST pro + silver cable, I don't think I can pass it up.  Just waiting to see if any sort of sale pops up.  Or maybe if Gearbest gets them in at a ridiculously cheap price like they've done with a bunch of KZ IEMs.


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> There's a reason these are only $4 on GearBest. *They are not fantastic*. They sound only a little brighter than the ED12's.
> 
> While they are better than the ATE's, *there is nothing interesting about this sound. It's not fun, it's not bright, vocals are buried, mids are too high and everything else is recessed*. Other than the mids being high,* it's a very flat and boring sound.*


 
 Aren`t You being too subjective and harsh with YOUR opinion? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It almost sounds like You want to bash them down and make everybody hate ATR.
 Maybe it`s about Your gear matchup, personal subjective taste and hearing, music genre preference etc. but...
 * I do not find them "nothing interesting about this sound".
 * I do not find them "not fun"
 * I do NOT find the "vocals buried" !
 * Mids too high and everything else buried? I do not agree. They are very well balanced with slight V-shaped signature.
 * They sound neutral-sided but not "very flat" and boring.
  
 To me it seems like You are more into V-shaped "mids poor" signature (it`s not bad and it`s personal preference). 
  
 Just, seems like You have taken offensive attacking way towards me and some others saying they are very good
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Let them "settle in"(or Your brain/hearing) and try different gains and amping, different tips and music with them before bashing them down like this and come back with OBJECTIVE impressions about them with mentioning all the gear and music You`ve tested them with.
  


> Originally Posted by *Euljiro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I had kind of the same first impression with the ATR when I first got them. But after a few days/weeks of burn-in, i just let music played for a while. So after a few weeks, I tried them again, this time, with Comply tips, Fiio Q1, and turn the volume up. They are soooo good. Silky smooth highs.
> 
> ...


 
 +1


sometechnoob said:


> I like the ATRs.
> 
> But if you say the ZST is that much better, I think I'm going to have to end up picking yet another KZ IEM.


 
 Probably me too. Want to see/hear about this "hype-train". In the end "you`ve gotta try it to judge it!"


----------



## khighly

coil said:


> Aren`t You being too subjective and harsh with YOUR opinion? :rolleyes:  It almost sounds like You want to bash them down and make everybody hate ATR.
> Maybe it`s about Your gear matchup, personal subjective taste and hearing, music genre preference etc. but...
> * I do not find them "nothing interesting about this sound".
> * I do not find them "not fun"
> ...




I'm not targeting anyone and I do not know who you are. I'm sorry if I offended you, those are just my personal opinions of the ATR's. I am also not into pseudoscience. 

At the low price of all of these IEM's I suggest buying the top picks from your cheapest source and trying them all for yourself. They all have their own sound signatures and some may like different ones than I do.


----------



## danimoca

khighly said:


> I just got the ATR's in the mail and have been listening for around 2 hours.
> 
> There's a reason these are only $4 on GearBest. They are not fantastic. They sound only a little brighter than the ED12's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Though I agree about them being "flat", I think that's why they are so good for the price!
  
 Usually cheaper IEM's have more of v-shaped sound signature. To find something for 4$ that has a somewhat balanced sound is remarkable. I find the Philips you mentioned WAY worse. They have a brighter, harsher sound, with almost no soundstage (compared to the ATR's).


----------



## CoiL

danimoca said:


> To find something for 4$ that has a somewhat balanced sound is remarkable. I find the Philips you mentioned WAY worse. They have a brighter, harsher sound, with almost no soundstage (compared to the ATR's).


 
 +1. Also got a chance to listen those philips and no comparison with ATR to me, latter are better almost in every aspect.
 Heck, for me they sound even better than **** 4in1 because they have better mids and slightly better soundstage. This is personal subjective taste though.


----------



## chekock1

Respect the KZ ATE
  
 Will these have more soundstage than the cx 3.00 and the philips she3590?
  
 Will be an upgrade over those?


----------



## To.M

I can say that ATE are very good but ZST are excellent, I have been saying it for over a month and was a bit irritated with some critical and even harsh words about them back then (I accept critical reviews but not wanton bashing).


----------



## khighly

Spending about 6 hours listening to the *ATR*'s now, the bass is very heavy, muddy, and overpowered. On certain songs with bassy kick drums, I can feel muscles in the back of my throat tensing up at something I would consider a very comfortable listening level. Highs lack detail and brightness. They don't sound bad, but they sound like a compromise. They're better than the ED12's and ATE's for sure.

*In Order:*
 ZST (No Competition)
 ATR
 ATE
 SHE3590
 ED12


----------



## To.M

Muddy bass, no detailed highs and better than ATE? No way sir! My ATE and me are protesting


----------



## khighly

to.m said:


> Muddy bass, no detailed highs and better than ATE? No way sir! My ATE and me are protesting


 
 I just went back to the ATE's and they honestly sound brighter and more detailed with less mud. They don't have as much high extension but the detail makes it seem like there is more. Bass is almost as powerful, but at a higher frequency. It plays with my eyes and my throat at medium volume. Only with the starline tips though. They still have crazy bass. I like the ATE's better right now back to back. I'll update this post if I change my mind.

 ATE's are the only pair I have a problem fitting in my tiny girl ears.
  
 In my opinion, the ATE's have a completely unique sound signature from the ATR's. They're similarly flat, but they each have their own peaks and dips.
  
 Just ordered spinfits for my ZST's. Silver cable is on them. Looking pretty cool. I cant wait for my ZST Pro Colorful's to come in (and hopefully they're better than the ZST's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Last edit: Just went back to my ZST's after a day of ATR + some ATE. They feel like memory foam mattresses for my ears. They are very comfortable compared to the ATR and ATE with the starlines. I'm back to smiling at my music too.


----------



## Griffith

chekock1 said:


> Respect the KZ ATE
> 
> Will these have more soundstage than the cx 3.00 and the philips she3590?
> 
> Will be an upgrade over those?


 
  
 No idea, I've never tried any of those however, I did have a CX200 that I really enjoyed and what I can tell you is that the ATE's soundstage is much much greater than the CX200's, The CX200 had a warmer signature that made them comforting to listen to for long sessions, in comparison the ATE sound colder, but not cold, but they have good detail across most of the frequency spectrum and there aren't any odd noticeable dips. Bass is somewhat recessed but then again, I'm not sure if I'd appreciate it given how detailed and "3D-like" the sound can get. If you like something with a bit more warmth and bass perhaps the KZ ZS3 or the KZ ED9 would be better choices.


----------



## zabunny94

I don't think ED9 has more warmth than ATE, it's actually the contrary even with the gold filter.


----------



## Griffith

zabunny94 said:


> I don't think ED9 has more warmth than ATE, it's actually the contrary even with the gold filter.


 
  
 Yeah but by default they have more warmth and better bass right? At least that's the general impression I have of them from opinions I read.


----------



## Ruben123

khighly said:


> I just went back to the ATE's and they honestly sound brighter and more detailed with less mud. They don't have as much high extension but the detail makes it seem like there is more. Bass is almost as powerful, but at a higher frequency. It plays with my eyes and my throat at medium volume. Only with the starline tips though. They still have crazy bass. I like the ATE's better right now back to back. I'll update this post if I change my mind.
> 
> 
> ATE's are the only pair I have a problem fitting in my tiny girl ears.
> ...




Star line tips indeed increase the ATR's bass response and no I don't recommend to use them. Wide bore tips clean up the sound a lot.


----------



## Shadowsora

Well when I first tried ATE I wasn't that impressed as well, after some listening though that smooth sound became really pleasant to me as my previous IEMS where V-shaped cannons.
 Those days I find myself listening to those iems just for small time periods, then I get fatigued due to the treble and bass, I usually eq the highs and lows at -3db(Quadbeat 3 and MH1, ED9 at -1-2).
 I am really looking forward to ATRs BUT gearbest kinda sucks atm , they said they had a large stock of ATRs and for some blabbery excuses they say they will send them to me at 12-12.
  
 I MAY get them in february of 17 if they send them mid holidays... sigh.


----------



## devleon

Since some people have mentioned that shipping from the official store (kziems.aliexpress.com/store/1358152) takes very long, I can confirm the opposite. I ordered on the 29. November and they got shipped on the 1st December and now already in Singapore  Maaaybe they will arrive before christmas :O?


----------



## elemeno

Can I remove these rubber pieces on the ATRs without messing up the cable? Anyone tried?
 http://i.imgur.com/riooA5L.png


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> Spending about 6 hours listening to the *ATR*'s now, the *bass is very heavy, muddy, and overpowered. Highs lack detail and brightness*.


 
 What? No way! Maybe now You got bad batch ATR?
 ATR`s don`t sound anything like You said. My ATR bass is tight and detailed, doesn`t bleed into other FR and highs are detailed and quite near my highs tolerance level.
  


khighly said:


> I'm back to smiling at my music too.


 
 What is "Your music" btw? Just want to know what genre and music You mostly listen and make judgements by.
  


ruben123 said:


> Star line tips indeed increase the ATR's bass response and no I don't recommend to use them. Wide bore tips clean up the sound a lot.


 
 LOL ;D And once again I don`t agree with Ruben123. Don`t take this bad way, it just confirms again that our gear or ears are totally different 
 For me, starline tips make ATR bass tighter and overall sound much more coherent and balanced.
 What size are You using? I`m using smallest and deep fit. Maybe using largest vs. smallest can make such difference?


shadowsora said:


> Well when I first tried ATE I wasn't that impressed as well, after some listening though that smooth sound became really pleasant to me as my previous IEMS where V-shaped cannons.
> Those days I find myself listening to those iems just for small time periods, then I get fatigued due to the treble and bass...


 
 Basically same thing with me. I prefer my ATR`s and ATE`s over **** 4in1, HLSX808, LZ A2S and even Magaosi BK50 (which is quite similar sounding to ATE but more laid-back and less sparkly highs). 
 Shadow, I recommend You to get 5th gen ATE too if You like Your 2nd gen ATE. Sorry, can`t compare 5th and 2nd head-to-head anymore because my 2nd gen is modded but what I recall, then 5th is improved littlebit over 2nd and much closer to my FF-mod.
  


elemeno said:


> Can I remove these rubber pieces on the ATRs without messing up the cable? Anyone tried?
> http://i.imgur.com/riooA5L.png


 
 Better just buy new better quality cable from AE and change it.


----------



## CoiL

zabunny94 said:


> I don't think ED9 has more warmth than ATE, it's actually the contrary even with the gold filter.


 
 Agree. ED9 is most neutral sounding when used with brass nozzle and certain amount of foam filter inside nozzle. Otherwise they are pretty V-shaped and with gold nozzle bass is clearly "boosted". Warmth comes mainly from mid-frequencies and ATE has more and better mids imho. But lot depends from source gear also.
 My source gear(s) is quite neutral with just a tad warmth added that sound very natural to my ears.


----------



## Shawn71

elemeno said:


> Can I remove these rubber pieces on the ATRs without messing up the cable? Anyone tried?
> http://i.imgur.com/riooA5L.png




Why you want to remove that?......its actually there for a reason,acts as a weight when worn over the ear so you really dont need any ear-guides.butyeah this cable is springy but may take some time to settle down.


----------



## dilidani

Guys, my little wooly pads inside the earphone tube are gone. ZS3 model. You know, that little foam behind the "earwax filter" (they are like a little part of paper haha). One of them was misplaced (lack of glue i guess) so I removed the other one as well. Does it affect sounds? I'm curious, because I'm rocking this way since arrival.

 Cheers,
 Daniel


----------



## doggiemom

khighly said:


> There's a reason these are only $4 on GearBest. They are not fantastic. They sound only a little brighter than the ED12's.


 
 What?!  Are you on acid or something?!  (Sorry, couldn't resist).


----------



## Shadowsora

dilidani said:


> Guys, my little wooly pads inside the earphone tube are gone. ZS3 model. You know, that little foam behind the "earwax filter" (they are like a little part of paper haha). One of them was misplaced (lack of glue i guess) so I removed the other one as well. Does it affect sounds? I'm curious, because I'm rocking this way since arrival.
> 
> Cheers,
> Daniel


 
 It should mostly affect the treble, for example if the iem has harsh harsh with those then it will become ear piercing without them.
 In some iems it helps bringing some pseudo extension on the highs though.


----------



## Kerkyboi

b9scrambler said:


> Speaking of the ZST, I finally got the chance to spend a VERY brief moment with them last night and can say they sounded pretty darn good. Thanks @RvTrav for the listen. When mine eventually arrive, they're getting some serious ear time.


 
  
 Hoping to hear more of your impressions with the ZST's. Just read your review with the W1 pro and I am immediately convinced I need to check them out. lol
  


george-gearbest said:


> Gearbest offer lowest price of KZ headphones


 
  
 They do. But be sure to sit tight as I noticed their shipping method got issues. 
  


griffith said:


> I apologize for the belated response. I checked the code on my ATE's shells and it is indeed the same as yours. I also appreciate the signature quite a lot, they do sound spacious and can resolve a surprising amount of details in my opinion.
> 
> On another note regarding the ZST and those waiting for it to ship from Gearbest: mine shipped today after nearly a couple of weeks wait. With some ridiculous amount of luck I may yet receive them before Christmas, but I'm not holding my breath. My colorful ZST though seem like they could arrive next week.


 
  
 Glad your pairs are already shipped! I just sent a message to their rep asking when are they planning to ship mine. Told me they will ship it between Nov 28 - Dec 2 and its already 5th and still got no updates whatsoever. I also tracked my ED12 and ZS3 and they are still stuck with customs for some reason when my other orders from Ali already arrived. Guess I am steering away from GearBest from now on and just stick with Ali even if they have the cheapest prices. I could be looking to receive all my ordered stuff from GB next year, when KZ already releases maybe 4 or 5 new models. Jeez.


----------



## chekock1

The ZS3s and ZSTs are much bigger than the ATRs and ATEs?


----------



## Adrianzs

Just got my ZST from the mail today, Its ZST colour + silver upgrade cable + ear hook + ali foam tips
 having a bit of burn in atm, will share first impression soon!
  
  
  
  
http://imgur.com/a/w8xTt


----------



## To.M

Here is a quick pic of my ZST and ATE, the shell of ZST is bigger but the nozzle is shorter, all in all, ZST are comfy to wear.


----------



## Griffith

chekock1 said:


> The ZS3s and ZSTs are much bigger than the ATRs and ATEs?


 
  
 Not certain about the ZST but yes, the ZS3 are significantly larger than the ATE, though they are more comfortable than the ATE because they are rounder in shape, at least in my ears.


----------



## khighly

to.m said:


> Here is a quick pic of my ZST and ATE, the shell of ZST is bigger but the nozzle is shorter, all in all, ZST are comfy to wear.


 

 The ATE's and ATR's hurt my ears significantly and I can only wear them for 15-20 minute periods. The ZST's are very comfortable and I can sleep with them in.


----------



## hoerlurar

i have no problems at all with the ATR, but the ZS3 needs a bit more careful positioning (and correct tips) to feel ok in my ears.


----------



## khighly

hoerlurar said:


> i have no problems at all with the ATR, but the ZS3 needs a bit more careful positioning (and correct tips) to feel ok in my ears.


 

 I guess I'll stay away from the ZS3's then!


----------



## ayao

I just received the colorful ZST, and I have to say that OOTB I'm really liking them! Compared to my more expensive IEMs, the ZST doesn't sound as warm but the mids don't really sound scooped. There seems to be more treble presence (not sibilant to my ears at all), but there is no peak in the high mids (I really don't like bumps between the 5 - 7khz region). Perhaps the sound signature is W-shaped?


----------



## Griffith

khighly said:


> I guess I'll stay away from the ZS3's then!




On the other hand the ZS3 sit very comfortably in my ears despite being larger, can be used for longer periods without hurting (the ATE/ATR shells are less rounded and cause slight irritation in my ears) and seal fine with the stock tips in my ears. To me they are easier to get a good seal with than my ATE.

The only fault I can point out is that the ear guides on the cable are a bit stiff and as a result harder to get in the proper shape and the Bass in some tracks can sometimes bleed into the mids and muddy them up a bit, but overall I quite enjoy them both for music and games.


----------



## mochill

Zsr pro will come out soon , I have a feeling


----------



## B9Scrambler

mochill said:


> Zsr pro will come out soon , I have a feeling


 
  
 I hope you're right buddy. Can't sleep right now and all I can think of is my ZST arriving tomorrow. If anyone can go from making a bucket-load of good hyber-budget, single DD earphones to five-driver hybrids, and do it well, it's gonna be KZ. I have confidence in them.


----------



## mochill

You'll love it


----------



## CoiL

ayao said:


> I just received the colorful ZST, and I have to say that OOTB I'm really liking them! Compared to my more expensive IEMs, the ZST doesn't sound as warm but the mids don't really sound scooped. There seems to be more treble presence (not sibilant to my ears at all), but there is no peak in the high mids (I really don't like bumps between the 5 - 7khz region). Perhaps the sound signature is W-shaped?


 
 How about the bass? Can You compare ATE (non-S) or ATR to ZST ?


----------



## ayao

coil said:


> How about the bass? Can You compare ATE (non-S) or ATR to ZST ?


 
 I've got an ATR on the way from Gearbest (shipped 9th November).
  
 I did have an ATE, but I disliked it enough to conclude that it was defective. This was ages ago, before the black/translucent ATE was released. No matter what tips I used, there was zero bass unless I physically pushed the IEMs in my ear and kept them pressed. There was also a huge peak somewhere around the 3 - 5khz region that made the entire signature sound way too shouty. I've been too scared to order another ATE, but I've read that the ATR is similar, and all the positive remarks (plus the low cost) convinced me to purchase a pair!
  
  
 btw, my initial impressions aren't too far off from my measurements!


----------



## CoiL

ayao said:


> btw, my initial impressions aren't too far off from my measurements!


 
 This is ZST measurement? 
  
 About ATE... I recommend You to try 5th gen ATE because their soundstage is bigger and more open sounding than ATR but they have slightly smoother highs and laid-back bass and more distant imaging and better mids. Maybe it isn`t your prefferred signature but recommend to try them out.


----------



## Lorspeaker

http://www.gearbest.com/kz-_gear/
  
 hey Coil, which is the 5th gen ATE on gearbest?? i see a few options there..


----------



## khighly

ayao said:


> I've got an ATR on the way from Gearbest (shipped 9th November).
> 
> I did have an ATE, but I disliked it enough to conclude that it was defective. This was ages ago, before the black/translucent ATE was released. No matter what tips I used, there was zero bass unless I physically pushed the IEMs in my ear and kept them pressed. There was also a huge peak somewhere around the 3 - 5khz region that made the entire signature sound way too shouty. I've been too scared to order another ATE, but I've read that the ATR is similar, and all the positive remarks (plus the low cost) convinced me to purchase a pair!
> 
> ...


 

 I feel like that's an ok representation of my ZST's, but the highs extend far beyond that cut at 14/15khz. Maybe slight difference in tuning.


----------



## To.M

coil said:


> How about the bass? Can You compare ATE (non-S) or ATR to ZST ?




ZST have definitely more lows, they go deeper and rumble more, but they are controlled and stay in the background. Kick drums or bass guitars sound fuller with a better punch. Compared to ATE, forgot to say


----------



## khighly

Decent picture of the ZST's. I cant wait until I get the colorfuls with the spinfits & silver wire!


----------



## ayao

coil said:


> This is ZST measurement?
> 
> About ATE... I recommend You to try 5th gen ATE because their soundstage is bigger and more open sounding than ATR but they have slightly smoother highs and laid-back bass and more distant imaging and better mids. Maybe it isn`t your prefferred signature but recommend to try them out.


 
  
 Ah yes, that was the ZST's measurement. Here's the ZST (yellow) vs the ED10 (green). The ED10 sounds very unnatural to my ears, and I really don't like that 6khz peak. 

  
 Is the current ATE 5th gen? I'll consider getting one, most likely depending on what I think about the ATR when I receive it.


----------



## vegetaleb

I received my ZS3, very nice matte look but I already hate them:
 -The weird cable plug coming out in a way it doesn't turn around the ''beginning'' of the ear makes it awkward look
 -Same goes for fit, tried both medium and big tips as well as the ones from the ATES but the right ZS3 plug never have a good fit whatever I do
 -Bass is heavier than already heavy bass ATES, it's even muddier
 I should have kept my $ for another aliexpress gadget


----------



## Lorspeaker

just pull down on the wire and it should mould around your ear? i did that..seems to work. 
 u need 100hours of burn in... i am putting mine in the "oven" for a week.


----------



## Griffith

vegetaleb said:


> I received my ZS3, very nice matte look but I already hate them:
> -The weird cable plug coming out in a way it doesn't turn around the ''beginning'' of the ear makes it awkward look
> -Same goes for fit, tried both medium and big tips as well as the ones from the ATES but the right ZS3 plug never have a good fit whatever I do
> -Bass is heavier than already heavy bass ATES, it's even muddier
> I should have kept my $ for another aliexpress gadget


 
  
 I'm not sure if the same will happen to you but I'd like to share my experience with the ZS3:
  
 - When I first got them the first thing that I noticed was that they sounded warmer than the ATE and had much more pronounced bass which, in some songs, made the mids muddy.
 - After reading some opinions on the ZS3 and seeing suggestions to burn them in I downloaded and installed an app that you can still find somewhere on this thread that played a tune that sounds like rainfall more or less and I left running and fell asleep. When I woke up and used the ZS3 again, the muddied mids seem to have disappeared and it sounded much clearer. The bass is still a bit messy and still overwhelms the highs and mids but it doesn't make songs sound muddy at least, just sounds like somewhat bloated bass.
 - Right now my ZS3 sound warm, bassy and V shaped but the mids are clear and the highs are ok. They are fun and comforting to listen to.


----------



## zephyr11

i had my zs3 burn in for about 50-60hrs, looping music i usually listen to. ootb they sounded a tad too bassy, but the mids and highs were still in front of the lows. that i could differentiate.
  
 now they sound rather sweet, i cannot help but bob my head to the music, and right hand on my air guitar, strumming away, just short of jumping around...
  
  
 i'll keep burning them in and hopefully i can report back with difference, noob in this area....


----------



## hoerlurar

vegetaleb said:


> I received my ZS3, very nice matte look but I already hate them:
> -The weird cable plug coming out in a way it doesn't turn around the ''beginning'' of the ear makes it awkward look
> -Same goes for fit, tried both medium and big tips as well as the ones from the ATES but the right ZS3 plug never have a good fit whatever I do
> -Bass is heavier than already heavy bass ATES, it's even muddier
> I should have kept my $ for another aliexpress gadget



I didn't like my zs3 until i tried rounded foam tips that i got from aliexpress. With the rounded foams the fit became much better, and the problems with "trapped pressure" in my ears from insertion disappeared.


----------



## vegetaleb

griffith said:


> I'm not sure if the same will happen to you but I'd like to share my experience with the ZS3:
> 
> - When I first got them the first thing that I noticed was that they sounded warmer than the ATE and had much more pronounced bass which, in some songs, made the mids muddy.
> - After reading some opinions on the ZS3 and seeing suggestions to burn them in I downloaded and installed an app that you can still find somewhere on this thread that played a tune that sounds like rainfall more or less and I left running and fell asleep. When I woke up and used the ZS3 again, the muddied mids seem to have disappeared and it sounded much clearer. The bass is still a bit messy and still overwhelms the highs and mids but it doesn't make songs sound muddy at least, just sounds like somewhat bloated bass.
> - Right now my ZS3 sound warm, bassy and V shaped but the mids are clear and the highs are ok. They are fun and comforting to listen to.


 
  
 Thanks, I plugged them now to my old good Cowon J3 as it has a long lasting battery, playing in loop white,pink and other sounds.
 As for the fit the right one is definitely not good, different from the left one or it's my right ear's shape, but it will always not fit as it should, I tried to bend the cable in different ways but it's still going out of the KZ plug like an antenna then it goes under my ear, making about 2 cms curved cable between the plug and my ear, which is the cause of bad fit.
 Strangely enough I don't have this problem with my left side.
 Add to that the mic button doesn't work well, with the ATES I can very easily use pause/play and Next track using the mic's button, but with the ZS3 I can only pause and once over 5 hit and miss make it play, I couldn't use at all the next track option (2 fast press), so is it a known ''bug'' of the ZS3?
 Using it on my HTC 10 with additional Sony Smarkey app


----------



## devleon

adrianzs said:


> Just got my ZST from the mail today, Its ZST colour + silver upgrade cable + ear hook + ali foam tips
> having a bit of burn in atm, will share first impression soon!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Where'd you get the earhooks?


----------



## Shawn71

devleon said:


> Where'd you get the earhooks?




Vsonic ones if im not wrong.........


----------



## Ruben123

Guys please burning in is just placebo, pseudo science. Get the widest bore tips you could and it makes a world of a difference. I'd even call them slightly neutral with those tips.


----------



## Shadowsora

Interesting measurements on ZST, probably not my cup of tea, this graph pretty much confirms the initial impressions of a lot of people so I doubt the mixed opinions are from bad QC but from different personal preferences.


----------



## To.M

With all due respect sir, but it is your opinion only, my opinion is that there are earphones that react well to burn in, ZST with the same tips were at the beginning bass boomy, now it is gone.


----------



## Shawn71

vegetaleb said:


> I received my ZS3, very nice matte look but I already hate them:
> -The weird cable plug coming out in a way it doesn't turn around the ''beginning'' of the ear makes it awkward look
> -Same goes for fit, tried both medium and big tips as well as the ones from the ATES but the right ZS3 plug never have a good fit whatever I do
> -Bass is heavier than already heavy bass ATES, it's even muddier
> I should have kept my $ for another aliexpress gadget




I had the same problem when I bought my meelec M6(2011 i think),the real culprit is the thin metal wire thats inside the shrink tube that actually molds as we bend them the way we want.......IIRC I tried/used the ear-guide back then .
I have the same issue now with my zs3 same as you and Im gonna try the same remedy when I spend my time with it.

Reg the tips: Try something hard at the shaft/tube,just like sony hybrids (like the stock ones are) as the nozzles doesnt have the lip to secure the tips......Also, you might end up tips staying in the ears when zs3 is taken out. Smaller dia tips than the zs3 nozzle too cld fit securely. 

Otoh, the right ear fit issue you have cld be that memory wire?thats what I feel..... try straightning the mem wire first,90 deg to the ear-piece,insert the ear piece in your ear canal,once the fit is thru, mold the mem wire behind the ears.


----------



## Ziadax

Got my ZST's in the mail today (purple colored version), so far very impressed with how well controlled and extended the bass is for the $11 i paid for it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ziadax said:


> Got my ZST's in the mail today (purple colored version), so far very impressed with how well controlled and extended the bass is for the $11 i paid for it.




I got a slip in the mail saying I have to go pick them up because no one answered when they tried to deliver. Funny that. I now work from home, watched them leave their truck and enter the building, then leave. Nearing two weeks late on your delivery and you pull that garbage? Yup...*slow clap*


----------



## khighly

shadowsora said:


> Interesting measurements on ZST, probably not my cup of tea, this graph pretty much confirms the initial impressions of a lot of people so I doubt the mixed opinions are from bad QC but from different personal preferences.




I'm guessing it's still from low QC. I doubt anyone in this thread could use a good pair of ZST's for a few days and hate them regardless of what your listening profile is.

Graph doesn't look very accurate after a fresh listen this morning. There is absolutely no way the highs roll off like that at 13k. That's something the ATE's and ATR's do. I'm taking it with a grain of salt.


----------



## BWAS1000

Looking to Grab some ED2s on Amazon, seller is prime fulfilled. should I be wary of a fake? Its $11.90


----------



## toddy0191

khighly said:


> It's a fact. There is zero scientific evidence that burning in does anything. Anyone who thinks otherwise I add to my "maybe not so great at audio" list.




Zero scientific evidence doesn't make something a fact. I'm confident that the study of burn in its not a big grant generator for research funding, so there's probably been minimal effort from the scientific community to prove or disprove burn in. It is difficult IMO to measure the tiny nuances that the human brain can discern when perceiving the outside world and frequency response graphs only tell a small part of the story.

I've listened to a pair of new vivo xe800 that were noticeably different to an older pair. Now after they have been well used like the other pair, I couldn't tell then apart. Am I "not very good at audio" then?

Perception is very subjective so I would suggest not being too dismissive of other's opinions as they are as valid to that individual as your opinions are to you.

Back on topic though, your opinions on the ZST have made me curious to try them for the price.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Take the burn in fun to the correct location please; http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science


----------



## toddy0191

b9scrambler said:


> Take the burn in fun to the correct location please; http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science




I'm not a big fan of going OT either but everyone bites sometimes! Think If was the "not great at audio" that got me.


----------



## ayao

shadowsora said:


> Interesting measurements on ZST, probably not my cup of tea, this graph pretty much confirms the initial impressions of a lot of people so I doubt the mixed opinions are from bad QC but from different personal preferences.


  

 I agree that many of the mixed opinions are the result of different personal preferences, but I wouldn't dismiss bad QC as well. 
  
 Back when the EDSE was "the" KZ IEM, some people said that the ED2 was the same thing, and there were also positive impressions for the ED2. I ordered the EDSE and ED2 (from the "official KZ store"), and they sounded completely different. One sounded like what most people described it as, while the other one sounded very hollow, just like the revised KZ GR that I got in the same order (I believe after they tweaked the nozzles, not a single person liked the KZ GR). The IEMs all came in the tiny unmarked cardboard boxes, so there was no way to tell which one was the ED2 and EDSE. My first pair of DT3 had a ton of driver flex, but I really liked the sound signature (reminded me of the SE846, no joke). I liked it enough to order 10 more pairs, only to find them all sounding different to my first pair (usual V-shaped signature). I'm not 100% certain that my EDSE/ED2 was a case of bad QC, but the first DT3 definitely had a QC issue.
  
  
 Quote:


khighly said:


> Graph doesn't look very accurate after a fresh listen this morning. There is absolutely no way the highs roll off like that at 13k. That's something the ATE's and ATR's do. I'm taking it with a grain of salt.


 
  
 Definitely do take the measurement with a grain of salt. The Veritas can't really measure high frequencies, and literally every IEM I've measured drops to 0 shortly after 15khz. I'd say that it measures everything from around 60hz to 8khz decently (enough to compare different IEMs I have).


----------



## BWAS1000

ayao said:


> Definitely do take the measurement with a grain of salt. The Veritas can't really measure high frequencies, and literally every IEM I've measured drops to 0 shortly after 15khz. I'd say that it measures everything from around 60hz to 8khz decently (enough to compare different IEMs I have).




Wait, the ED2 and the EDSE are different? And the EDSE should be the better one?


----------



## ayao

bwas1000 said:


> Wait, the ED2 and the EDSE are different? And the EDSE should be the better one?


 
 This I cannot say for certain. I purchased one of each from the same AliExpress store (I think it was the 'official KZ store' whose was shared a lot in this thread a while back). IIRC, the ED2 was always a few cents cheaper than the EDSE. They both looked exactly the same (both had the red nozzle filter cover thing), yet they sounded completely different. I have seen positive reviews for both the EDSE and ED2, so I want to say that one of my pairs was just faulty.


----------



## BWAS1000

ayao said:


> This I cannot say for certain. I purchased one of each from the same AliExpress store (I think it was the 'official KZ store' whose was shared a lot in this thread a while back). IIRC, the ED2 was always a few cents cheaper than the EDSE. They both looked exactly the same (both had the red nozzle filter cover thing), yet they sounded completely different. I have seen positive reviews for both the EDSE and ED2, so I want to say that one of my pairs was just faulty.




On Amazon, the EDSEs are $9.98 and the ED2s are $11.90. Given the EDSE says sold by KZ headphones, and the ED2 is from a third party, I think I'll place my order for the EDSE


----------



## khighly

My ZST's start a deep cut of highs at around 17Khz. There is a slight dip at around 4.5k as well.

Not a fan of the spinfits for the ZST's either. I feel like the spinfits provide much better noise isolation but the sound doesn't feel as full. The starlines are more comfortable and less likely to slip in my ears.


----------



## vegetaleb

Any aliexpress links for the good tips to be used on the ZS3?


----------



## squallkiercosa

Hey Modders, how did you open the shell of the ATR (or ATE)?


----------



## Shawn71

A question to owners who have both zs3 & zst, hows the bass in comparison among these?.......
Is one on par with other or is it different or same or edgy? A simple version is more than suffice. TIA.


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> I feel like that's an ok representation of my ZST's, but the highs extend far beyond that cut at 14/15khz. Maybe slight difference in tuning.


 
 Why did You change Your answer? I read that You found Your impressions of *ATR* pretty semilar to that graph
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


ayao said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > This is ZST measurement?
> ...


 
 Same here, I really don`t like peaks around 6.2-7.2 kHz.
 Seems that current ATE (non-S) is 5th gen but not 100% sure though, ATE has had many iterations and I`ve counted at least 5 with this new one.
 I got my 5th gen ATE from GB: http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216373.html
  


shadowsora said:


> Interesting measurements on ZST, probably not my cup of tea, this graph pretty much confirms the initial impressions of a lot of people so I doubt the mixed opinions are from bad QC but from different personal preferences.


 
 +1 Thinking same things
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


toddy0191 said:


> khighly said:
> 
> 
> > It's a fact. There is zero scientific evidence that burning in does anything. Anyone who thinks otherwise I add to my "maybe not so great at audio" list.
> ...


 
 +1 
 I`ve experienced "burn-in effect" same way You did new vs. old pair and not only - I`ve gotten same IEMs at same time, let one play for some time (without listening) and then compared them and found noticeable differences, blindly with A/B switch. 
 Though, with some IEM`s I have not experienced any burn-in. To me it is very dependent on certain IEM and most of time differences before & after are quite unnoticeable.
  


squallkiercosa said:


> Hey Modders, how did you open the shell of the ATR (or ATE)?


 
 Take a look at thread pic gallery - You`ll find pics how to open them, it`s easy


----------



## dudinacas

Hey, I was reading this thread for a while and just made an account to make a post. I stopped reading about the time that everyone was getting the ED8 and ATE and I'd like to get a recommendation with all the new KZ gear. I want to get 2 IEMs - one for running and one for general use. I already have an Awei A920BL which is apparently considered a basshead IEM and I really enjoy it, but I'd like to get some wired IEMs. What would be better or most similar to the A920BL, the ATE or ZST (or maybe a different KZ model, I haven't been keeping track)? Also for general use are the Xiaomi Piston 3s (youth version in this case) still good?


----------



## DikZak

The ZST seems the top the line right know.
For the price the ATR at Gearbest caN't be beaten. Still waiting for mine, I am here new too.


----------



## mebaali

shawn71 said:


> A question to owners who have both zs3 & zst, hows the bass in comparison among these?.......
> Is one on par with other or is it different or same or edgy? A simple version is more than suffice. TIA.


 
 ZS3 with starline tips - Slightly Soft and a wee bit more in quantity (compared to ZST's tighter albeit less quantity bass)
  
 Kinda agree with the measurements posted on ZST few pages back, that's how I hear mids on mine (somewhat scooped out).
  
 #YMMV


----------



## dudinacas

dikzak said:


> The ZST seems the top the line right know.
> For the price the ATR at Gearbest caN't be beaten. Still waiting for mine, I am here new too.


 

 Wow, $6.33 NZD? Nice, I might have to pick one of these up.
 Sidenote, what's the difference between the ATE/ATR/ATES?


----------



## chompchomps

@dudinacas Welcome to Head-Fi, Prepare to be sucked in and tempted by all of us! 
  
 A side note, but you might want to visit the other chinese IEM threads for more earphones with amazing value and sound!


----------



## dudinacas

chompchomps said:


> @dudinacas Welcome to Head-Fi, Prepare to be sucked in and tempted by all of us!
> 
> A side note, but you might want to visit the other chinese IEM threads for more earphones with amazing value and sound!


 

 Hey, thanks! I'll check out some other threads!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

dudinacas said:


> Wow, $6.33 NZD? Nice, I might have to pick one of these up.
> Sidenote, what's the difference between the ATE/ATR/ATES?


 
 I think it's:
  
 ATR: Newest on the AT line.  Quite inexpensive but most prefer it for a more balanced sound over the ATE/ATES
 ATES: ATE with memory wire
  
 Still waiting on my Piston Youth editions.  I do have the Piston 3, Piston Basic, and Piston Colorfuls.  All are a bit less bassy than the ATR.
  
 In terms of bass: ATR>Piston3>Piston Basic>Piston Colorful.
  
 To be honest though, all are pretty good IEMs, especially for the price($5-$10 lmao, buy a truckload and never worry about breaking them again).
  
 In terms of fit and finish, I like the colorful the best.  Nice flat cable, thick rubber strain reliefs, super lightweight.  Fit is great.
  
 Soundwise I like the ATR.  Bass is a lot punchier and fuller, and the highs aren't as fatiguing on the ears.  Cable is a bit springy and tangle prone, and the fit is not as good nor as easy to insert as the Piston lineup.
  
 I think the Piston 3 would be the best compromise between all of the IEMs I have, but sadly they're discontinued and also were a bit more expensive than the ATR and Colorful and Basic.


----------



## snip3r77

dikzak said:


> The ZST seems the top the line right know.
> For the price the ATR at Gearbest caN't be beaten. Still waiting for mine, I am here new too.




How does ZST compared to the Tennmark Pro & Xiaomi 2 ?


----------



## DikZak

snip3r77 said:


> How does ZST compared to the Tennmark Pro & Xiaomi 2 ?




Can't help you on that. if someone can draw a comparision between those with vivo xe800 added to the pool I would be happy.


----------



## CoiL

mebaali said:


> ZS3 with starline tips - Slightly Soft and a wee bit more in quantity (compared to ZST's tighter albeit less quantity bass)
> 
> *Kinda agree with the measurements posted on ZST few pages back,* *that's how I hear mids on mine (somewhat scooped out)*.


 
 Thanks for that. So, You like ZST less about mids than ATE? Overall SQ You like ZST best out of KZ?


sometechnoob said:


> ATES: ATE with memory wire


 
 Not just that, S version should be bassier by many reports. Though, it`s the only ATE version I haven`t tried and can`t comment myself.


----------



## zabunny94

eh? from what i observed, seems like the reason that people find ate-s bassier is because it's using the same housing as 3rd gen ate which doesn't have vent hole. i haven't tried ate-s myself, so I'm not that sure


----------



## mebaali

coil said:


> Thanks for that. So, You like ZST less about mids than ATE? Overall SQ You like ZST best out of KZ?


 
 Nope.
  
 ZS3 still tops for me (very closely followed by ATR) in terms of SQ and Fit for my tastes/gears.
  
 My concern with ZST's graininess in treble (plus recessed mids) still persists and the only thing that I somewhat like about them is their tight bass. There is something wrong with my ZST's overall sound presentation that makes me feel an overall muddiness in their output which I am not able to get rid of.


----------



## CoiL

zabunny94 said:


> eh? from what i observed, seems like the reason that people find ate-s bassier is because it's using the same housing as 3rd gen ate *which doesn't have vent hole*. i haven't tried ate-s myself, so I'm not that sure


 
 True, that can be the case also, that`s why I noted out that I haven`t heard(seen) them myself to confirm one or another.
 Anyway, that`s why I recommend rather 2nd gen or 5th gen ATE (non-S) version.


----------



## dudinacas

sometechnoob said:


> I think it's:
> 
> ATR: Newest on the AT line.  Quite inexpensive but most prefer it for a more balanced sound over the ATE/ATES
> ATES: ATE with memory wire
> ...


 

 Alright, looks like an ATR + Piston 3 would be best for me. Could you do a review on the Youth ones when you get them? Thanks!


----------



## Shawn71

mebaali said:


> ZS3 with starline tips - Slightly Soft and a wee bit more in quantity (compared to ZST's tighter albeit less quantity bass)
> 
> Kinda agree with the measurements posted on ZST few pages back, that's how I hear mids on mine (somewhat scooped out).
> 
> #YMMV




Ok......my bad I didnt phrase my que interms of quality. I like the quality of bass zs3 has despite its V'ish with more than enough quantity to my preference.This qualityof bass is hard to find for its price tag(overall) along with its nice balance of mids and highs. Wanted to know how the zst handles bass with BA and so whether or not its worth trying zst.

Btw,Im on some wide bore M tips now and my starline tips are still in transit.I havent spent much of time with it yet (like ATR), so it may change with mids bit forward over time. Retaining its bass.


----------



## Ralphies

KZ ED9 question, just received them but very sensitive for use with polyester sweaters! I hear electric spikes thru the left in ear speaker! I can image if the in ears are from aluminum housing and cable of 'bad conducting' material and rubbing against polyester sweater gives interference through the speaker. 
Never had this issue before with for example ZS3 

Is this a common issue with the ED9 static issues with polyester cloths? Not when you sit down but while walking.


----------



## devleon

Just got my foam tips (T400, medium) from here (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32477744702/32477744702.html) just 10 days after ordering to Germany. That's definitely a new record shipping time. Normally things take 6-7 weeks to arrive. 

Anyways, these tips go really well with my ZS3. They finally sit comfortably in my ears so I can barely notice them, and they provide an excellent seal, and that's what makes the ZS3 shine.

So, I would really recommend anyone getting the ZS3 to get these foam tips as well. Save yourself the hassle getting a good seal with the stock eartips.


----------



## Toulouse

I need help selecting a replacement ZST cable. Love the earphones but hate the rubbery cable. Looking for one that doesn't tangle so easily and doesn't cost twice as much as the phones did. 
Thanks.


----------



## Griffith

toulouse said:


> I need help selecting a replacement ZST cable. Love the earphones but hate the rubbery cable. Looking for one that doesn't tangle so easily and doesn't cost twice as much as the phones did.
> Thanks.




 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32742751243/32742751243.html 

Not only might these solve your issue but a few headfiers claim they noticeably improve the sound quality.


----------



## dudinacas

Alright, just bought the ATR off GearBest. I'm no audiophile but I'll write a review / short comparison to the A920BL when they arrive.


----------



## sfogar

devleon said:


> Just got my foam tips (T400, medium) from here (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32477744702/32477744702.html) just 10 days after ordering to Germany. That's definitely a new record shipping time. Normally things take 6-7 weeks to arrive.
> 
> Anyways, these tips go really well with my ZS3. They finally sit comfortably in my ears so I can barely notice them, and they provide an excellent seal, and that's what makes the ZS3 shine.
> 
> So, I would really recommend anyone getting the ZS3 to get these foam tips as well. Save yourself the hassle getting a good seal with the stock eartips.


 
  
 Is really T400 the exact size for ZS3 ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

sfogar said:


> Is really T400 the exact size for ZS3 ?




I have a ton of 400 size Complys and found them a little loose on the ZS3 tbh. Definitely more secure than 500 series, but certainly not secure enough to be comfortable with.


----------



## vegetaleb

I burned in my ZS3 for about 14 hours, then tested them in real world usage aka at the gym, well yes following the recommendations I snapped in the memory cable right at the beginning for a better fit and it worked!
 Though still not as perfect as the ATES.
 It's definitely bassier than the ATES but now with the burn-in it's much less muddy letting the mids and high more present and detailed.
 The thing is that on an HTC 10 with Dolby amp enabled you *can't* past the 7th volume step over 10 unless you want to damage your ear or if you are already half deaf because volume and bass become waaaaaay too loud.
 Now I still have to find a way to make the mic button as usable as the one on the ATES, I will upgrade my Leedroid custom rom today from marshmallow to Nougat


----------



## sfogar

b9scrambler said:


> I have a ton of 400 size Complys and found them a little loose on the ZS3 tbh. Definitely more secure than 500 series, but certainly not secure enough to be comfortable with.


 
  
 Ah ok, because I thought that the right size was T200.


----------



## Griffith

I recently received 4 pairs of (supposedly T400-sized) earphone tips with memory foam from this vendor. To my surprise, they fit and stay on the ZS3 quite well, even though the ZS3's tip is noticeably thinner than the KZ ATE.
  
 Regarding sound improvements/differences, they made a noticeable difference on both the ZS3 and the ATE but on the ATE the difference was greater.
  
 The ZS3 seems to have become... cleaner. I was expecting its bass to become more pronounced as it already bled a bit into the mids with the stock tips but to my surprise it appears to have a lost a bit of it's bloat and as a general result the overall presentation is cleaner. It isn't a day-and-night difference but it is sufficient enough to be appreciable.
  
 The KZ ATE with the new ear-tips though were very surprising. They already were a pair of IEMs I appreciated immensely, with their more neutral sound signature, but jumping to that straight from a session of listening with the ZS3 emphasized their, by comparison, colder presentation and a bass that seemed much less impacting, or even noticeable, in some cases. When I placed them on my ears just before falling asleep and hit play my eyes shot wide open when I was greeted by a nice "thump" in the bass that previously wasn't there. While they still maintain their relatively neutral signature, they now have a bit of bass that helps make everything just slightly nicer to listen to. When you add that to their impressive (for the price) imaging and detail you get a package that I can't honestly find any major faults with.
  
 I'm still waiting for the ZST, and although I use and appreciate the ZS3 (I'm wearing them as I type this), the KZ ATE's quality and my appreciation for them went up a significant notch yesterday. If the ZST are even better than the ATE, as some have reported, that makes me even more excited.


----------



## Griffith

sfogar said:


> Ah ok, because I thought that the right size was T200.


 
  
 I was also under the impression that T400 would be too wide for the ZS3, but the, supposedly, T400-sized ear-tips I got fit it perfectly and don't come off without significant effort.


----------



## B9Scrambler

A glimpse of things to come..


----------



## Griffith

Just received the ED9... they weren't kidding when they said they were bass heavy. These make even the bassy ZS3 seem like a mild sheep in comparison.
  
 The second tuning nozzle that comes with them gives songs a bit of an airy sound, similar to how the ZS3's mids sounded when I first got them but I'm hoping that after a few hours they might improve slightly as my ZS3 did. I know not everyone believes in burn-in, but what can I say, even though I'm also a skeptic it worked on my ZS3.
  
 One thing that impressed me though is how better the ED9 are at imaging than the ZS3. I think they might even rival or come close to the ATE's imaging.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Oh, yeah! These things finally arrived. Some initial impressions.
  
  
  
          ​  ​   
 1. They're not as bassy as I remembered, but they're still fairly bassy; quick and punchy with nice extension.
 2. They have a wonderfully wide and airy soundstage; imaging and placement seem quite accurate.
 3. Treble is quite detailed and not sibilant; slightly on the thin side.
 4. Mid-range is well done. I wanted to say they're slightly recessed, but I don't think that's accurate. On Aesop Rock's Frijoles the vocals really stand out, especially in the closing moments. 
 5. They're quite sensitive. Running them through my NX1 is horrible; tons of hissing. Through the One M8 or XDuoo X3 alone all is well.
 6. Amp definitely isn't needed to get them up to volume.
 7. They do a great job of embarrassing the LZ A2S...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Overall? I like them a lot. They're comfortable, well built, and may very well set the bar that much higher for future KZs. I also love that the housing is clear so you can check out the DD and the tiny BA tucked in the nozzle. Very cool.


----------



## To.M

Glad to hear that sitting with ZST in my ears!  I find them great without any doubt.


----------



## B9Scrambler

to.m said:


> Glad to hear that sitting with ZST in my ears!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm 100% on board with you. The ZST is a genuinely good hyper-budget hybrid, price not-withstanding.


----------



## ayao

b9scrambler said:


> A glimpse of things to come..


 
 I've only heard good things about the Micro Ring! Didn't know they were still available..
  
  


b9scrambler said:


> Oh, yeah! These things finally arrived. Some initial impressions.
> ​ 4. Mid-range is well done. I wanted to say they're slightly recessed, but I don't think that's accurate. On Aesop Rock's Frijoles the vocals really stand out, especially in the closing moments.


 
 Your descriptions pretty much match my initial impressions, except you described it way better. In terms of the mid-range, there is a large 2khz bump, which makes the vocals stand out, but there is also a dip around 500-1khz (low-mid to mid), which makes it sound drier/less-warm. Perhaps that may be the reason why you thought the mids were recessed, but not recessed at the same time?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ayao said:


> I've only heard good things about the Micro Ring! Didn't know they were still available..
> 
> 
> Your descriptions pretty much match my initial impressions, except you described it way better. In terms of the mid-range, *there is a large 2khz bump, which makes the vocals stand out, but there is also a dip around 500-1khz (low-mid to mid), which makes it sound drier/less-warm. *Perhaps that may be the reason why you thought the mids were recessed, but not recessed at the same time?


 
  
 The Micro Ring is not available anymore. Mine is a couple years old. They're one of my fav KZs and since you can't get them anymore I baby the crap out of them. 
  
 That makes sense, and that's a much better description than I could ever provide, haha.


----------



## tyhot

How long does it usually take buying from their taobao store shipping to europe?


----------



## kimD

Reporting in for ZST


----------



## Griffith

tyhot said:


> How long does it usually take buying from their taobao store shipping to europe?


 
  
 Depends on when you order and how long they take to ship it but usually it arrives sometimes between 2 and 5 weeks unless they ship with DHL or some other similar service.


----------



## 1clearhead

mebaali said:


> Nope.
> 
> ZS3 still tops for me (very closely followed by ATR) in terms of SQ and Fit for my tastes/gears.
> 
> My concern with ZST's graininess in treble (plus recessed mids) still persists and the only thing that I somewhat like about them is their tight bass. There is something wrong with my ZST's overall sound presentation that makes me feel an overall muddiness in their output which I am not able to get rid of.


 
  
 These are the same exact concerns I have with mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But, on the bright side....I love their looks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to keep burning them to see what happens next.
  


b9scrambler said:


> A glimpse of things to come..


 
 You're such a teaser!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ....nice collection!


----------



## hoerlurar

well, i ordered the kz ZST now... from gearbest, and also added remax s1 pro to my order out of curiosity


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> These are the same exact concerns I have with mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm wondering if they changed the BA following release. The two pairs I have are not at all grainy, nor was @RvTrav's pair when I gave them a quick go.


----------



## bhazard

I think I may still have my KZ collection when they were still mostly Taobao only. I had them all at one point, Micro Ring and all.
  
 Still waiting on my ZST though. I like that Gearbest picked up on them though. Great pricing and a consistent store to buy from.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Post what you've got man! I love seeing the classics. Only have a few myself, then a ton from the EDse/ED3 era and after.


----------



## chompchomps

b9scrambler said:


> 7. They do a great job of embarrassing the LZ A2S...:rolleyes:




Wow, now i feel like getting them, thought the A2S sounded pretty decent. Able to compare them with tennmark pros?


----------



## B9Scrambler

chompchomps said:


> Wow, now i feel like getting them, thought the A2S sounded pretty decent. Able to compare them with tennmark pros?




Well, I'm a bit biased. I wasn't much of a fan of the A2S, though maybe mine isn't a shining example. I heard earlier models sounded better. 

I surprisingly don't have anything from Tennmak. Could compare to the Huawei Honor AM175 and 1More C1002 though. Have another 1+1 hybrid coming in soon-ish that I'm hoping is good. Looks like the HLSX BK50 but from a different brand.


----------



## toddy0191

b9scrambler said:


> I surprisingly don't have anything from Tennmak.




You should do something about that IMO. 

Just cracked and bought the ZST from Gearbest. There's far too many people singing their praises to not buy them for £9!


----------



## khighly

My ZST Pro's from banggood shipped a few days ago.

 I tried the ATR's for 3 days now. Not very impressed. I'm back to ZST and I really missed the soundstage, crisp clear detailed lows, and any semblance of highs. The ATR's are *very *boring. If you like a more detailed pleasant & fun sound, the ATR's are not for you.

 Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for something that would have similar characteristics of the ZST's for around $50-$100?


----------



## Lorspeaker

wait for the 10driver KZ ..early next year?


----------



## chompchomps

Im so tempted to get the ZST's now, its on sale on gearbest for $12
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html?wid=21
  
 Not affiliated to gearbest by any means, just giving a heads-up


----------



## chompchomps

But damn, gearbest dont have the colourful version!


----------



## abhijollyguy

So many KZ's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Currently which model is the top of the line in KZ?


----------



## khighly

abhijollyguy said:


> So many KZ's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ZST is bright and detailed
 ATR is flat

 ATR can be found for $5, ZST is $12. I'd suggest buying both as they're both seemingly the top favorites on here and depending on what you like, one may be better than the other.


----------



## Lorspeaker

u need the ZS3 and ED9 ....and ATE too...  that way u will enjoy this thread alot more.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

chompchomps said:


> But damn, gearbest dont have the colourful version!


 
 This is exactly what I'm waiting for.
  
 Gearbest shipping is so slow though... Stuff I ordered on 11/11 still hasn't got here, but stuff I got on 11/1 arrived over two weeks ago.
  
 Probably black friday/cyber monday/thanksgiving sales messed up shipping times.


----------



## zabunny94

abhijollyguy said:


> So many KZ's
> 
> Currently which model is the top of the line in KZ?




KZ ED9 is still unbeatable for value

Just saying


----------



## rockingthearies

abhijollyguy said:


> So many KZ's
> 
> Currently which model is the top of the line in KZ?



ATE
ATR
ZS3
ZST
ED9

it all depends on the sound you prefer, perhaps you could tell us what do you like and it would be easier for us to reccommend.


----------



## Griffith

abhijollyguy said:


> So many KZ's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think each person will give you a different answer because it all depends on your listening preferences. I've bought and received a few of the KZ earphones that are most highly regarded:
  
 KZ ATE (5th edition, the current one) - a very audiophile-tuned earphone with a neutral signature. Bass is recessed or barely noticeable with the stock tips, unless they happen to seal very well in your ear. I only realized they had a smooth but unimposing bass when I switched their earphone tips with a pair of memory foam ones. From the KZ earphones I have, these are the ones I find the most balanced in terms of features. Another impressive feature of theirs is the imaging, instrument separation and clarity. You can discern a lot of details with them. They have no significant flaws and I'd say are overall my favorite of the KZ line so far.
  
 KZ ZS3 - the ZS3 are warmer sounding, bassier and more V-shaped than the ATE. Their imaging is very narrow and so is separation, but they are still have a clear sound with slightly recessed highs and female vocals. To me the ZS3 are the fun, but not wild, earphones of the KZ line so far. I enjoy them for music listening and videogames. If you are interested in these, have a look at the ZST which from many descriptions on this thread and other places seem to be an improved version of these but mine have yet to arrive.
  
 KZ ED9 - I just received these yesterday so my opinions on them and their sound are still forming but I can say unequivocally the bassiest of the KZ earphones I own. They come with a nozzle that allows to change the sound noticeably and when you change from the stock nozzle to the other one that comes with them they seem to lose a bit of their bass and gain a bit more airy presentation. I didn't appreciate it immensely the first time I tried it, but I've let the ED9 burning overnight because I felt a similar type of issue with the ZS3 the first time I got them and burning them for a few hours helped alleviate the airiness I was hearing. Like the ZS3 the highs and female vocals are slightly recessed but unlike the ZS3 they are surprisingly good imaging and separation. Very close to the type of imaging the ATE provides. The only con I can point out about the ED9 is that in my ears they are somewhat uncomfortable because their back will sometimes rub against the inside of my ear and that can be discomforting. If you listen to a lot of songs with female vocals I don't think I would recommend the ED9 but otherwise they are extremely fun to listen to, consider the ZS3 if you want a fun earphone that isn't as imposing as the ED9's bass.


----------



## Griffith

chompchomps said:


> But damn, gearbest dont have the colourful version!


 
  
 The colourful ZST were quite cheap on Aliexpress a few days ago, I managed to snag them for 13.16 euros. Not as low as Gearbest I know... but still a significant discount from their current price.


----------



## Griffith

So... I let my ED9 burn over night with the iMore app once again for around 8 hours and that seems to have eliminated most of the airiness I felt when I used the ED9's alternative tuning nozzle. Now, with the alternative nozzle, they sound to my ears like a ZS3 with slightly wider soundstage, but I have the feeling that some of the highs are slightly more recessed than the ZS3's but I'd need to do more AB testing to confirm that.
  
 The lows on the other hand seem somewhat muffled. I'm not sure how to describe it... I'm listening to a track with a nice drum in the background and piano with accompanying female vocalist. The piano's keys feel lively and very present. The female vocals, though very light, are somewhat recessed, more so than on the other KZ I own and the drums are there but seem to have lost all of their weight. But if I add the stock nozzle, the drums gain a new weight to them and each hit feels like a sprinkling of bass washes over the song, the vocalist's voice becomes more present and the piano retains its presence and articulation, it just sounds overall significantly better.
  
 This is the track I'm listening to if you want to compare with your own earphones:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbMvYk4LILo
  
 Is there any good reason to use the alternative tuning nozzle with the ED9? I haven't heard a single track yet that makes me go "oh yeah I should totally switch nozzles when I listen to this".


----------



## NoxVail

Can someone share a link to foam tips, which would fit ZST's? Thanks in advance.


----------



## crabdog

I just received x3 ATR that I ordered on 11/11. They were intended as gifts but after listening to one OOTB I'm gonna have to keep one for myself. Amazing value for money.


----------



## B9Scrambler

crabdog said:


> I just received x3 ATR that I ordered on 11/11. They were intended as gifts but after listening to one OOTB I'm gonna have to keep one for myself. Amazing value for money.


 
  
 Yeah man! ATR is awesome.


----------



## chekock1

Have anyone listened de EDR2?


----------



## B9Scrambler

chekock1 said:


> Have anyone listened de EDR2?




I may have commented on it once or twice.


----------



## hoerlurar

chekock1 said:


> Have anyone listened de EDR2?



Yes. Some of us like them, others aren't as impressed. Not sure if it's preferences or sample variation that explains that


----------



## chekock1

Well for 4 dolars I will give them a try


----------



## Lorspeaker

i bought a few EDR2, listened to one for a few mins...meant to be gifts..
 didnt felt it was any inferior or poor sounding iem...no complaints.
 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_316680.html?wid=21
  
 (The ed9 definitely sounded more refined though )


----------



## Kerkyboi

At last! Something came in the mail today!



I was surprised to see it was the ZS3! I was expecting to receive the ed12's first as I ordered it 2 weeks ahead of this one but damn! Good thing this came first! Wow!


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> I tried the ATR's for 3 days now. Not very impressed. I'm back to ZST and I really missed the soundstage, crisp clear detailed lows, and any semblance of highs. The *ATR's are very boring. *If you like a more detailed pleasant & fun sound, the ATR's are not for you.


 
 Again, You make general statements about ATR - with Your gear, Your preferences, Your music taste and Your ears - that doesn`t mean they sound very boring to everyone else too! There are many here who love them very much and do not find them "boring" with plenty of details (actually with my gear I find them equal even with some BA hybrids I have).
  
 What I`m trying to say, again - be more objective 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


griffith said:


> I think each person will give you a different answer because it all depends on your listening preferences. I've bought and received a few of the KZ earphones that are most highly regarded:
> 
> KZ ATE (5th edition, the current one) - a very audiophile-tuned earphone with a neutral signature. Bass is recessed or barely noticeable with the stock tips, unless they happen to seal very well in your ear. I only realized they had a smooth but unimposing bass when I switched their earphone tips with a pair of memory foam ones. From the KZ earphones I have, these are the ones I find the most balanced in terms of features. Another impressive feature of theirs is the imaging, instrument separation and clarity. You can discern a lot of details with them. They have no significant flaws and I'd say are overall my favorite of the KZ line so far.


 
 100% agree. 5th gen ATE is my fav also in stock condition. Right fitting wide bore tips on them can make bass very good and it You mess with the port holes/open-back, they come clear winner for me out of KZ family and can stand up&over against many BA hybrids I have ;P
  


crabdog said:


> I just received x3 ATR that I ordered on 11/11. They were intended as gifts but after listening to one OOTB I'm gonna have to keep one for myself. Amazing value for money.


 
 I told ya! They are great. They could have little more open & larger lively soundstage though (like ATE, BK50) but nevertheless, they sound just darn great!


----------



## Vidal

For the money ATR are unbelievably good, a really good pair of earphones for the price of a fully loaded coffee from Starbucks.


----------



## dudinacas

chekock1 said:


> Have anyone listened de EDR2?



Pretty sure it's a renamed ED2, my friend has the ED2 and from what I can tell it's pretty balanced.


----------



## CoiL

It`s pretty ok but not as balanced as ATR for example. EDR2 sounds quite warm but that`s also due to somewhat small and narrow soundstage. ATE for example leaves You with immersive soundstage feeling compared to EDR2. EDR2 soundstage isn`t small though, about average.


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> It`s pretty ok but not as balanced as ATR for example. EDR2 sounds quite warm but that`s also due to somewhat small and narrow soundstage. ATE for example leaves You with immersive soundstage feeling compared to EDR2. EDR2 soundstage isn`t small though, about average.


 
  
 The crazy variances in opinion are the reason why I stopped speaking of the EDR2. There is only a touch of warmth to my pair. The overall signature is pretty neutral with very minor bumps to bass and treble. Like I told Ruben a while back, they more-or-less replace the HDS1 and ED9 (w/brass) for me.


----------



## Ruben123

b9scrambler said:


> The crazy variances in opinion are the reason why I stopped speaking of the EDR2. There is only a touch of warmth to my pair. The overall signature is pretty neutral with very minor bumps to bass and treble. Like I told Ruben a while back, they more-or-less replace the HDS1 and ED9 (w/brass) for me.




I share your findings and I find the Atr much warmer


----------



## Griffith

Guys I need eartip recommendations for the ED9... they need to be smaller than the T400 medium but still be able to not only keep a good seal but stay well inside my ear because otherwise they rub against it on the end and become uncomfortable to wear after a while. Right now I'm using the small tips that come with them stock but I have to adjust them every now and then, it's just not ideal. I love the way they sound with the Comply-esque tips I have, but then they rub against my ear. Can anyone suggest tips that would solve my issue?


----------



## zabunny94

dudinacas said:


> Pretty sure it's a renamed ED2, my friend has the ED2 and from what I can tell it's pretty balanced.




Nope, edr2 and ed2 are quite different iem, physically they share tha same housing type, but with different material. ed2 and edr1 are identical though

Second, edr2 has similar v-shaped sound as edr1/ed2. Yet it has some difference, particularly less muddy bass and bit more airy treble than edr1

Though the quality control is like a middle finger to us the customer, many reported that their edr2 housing falling off because the lack of glue(mine included)


----------



## SomeTechNoob

coil said:


> Again, You make general statements about ATR - with Your gear, Your preferences, Your music taste and Your ears - that doesn`t mean they sound very boring to everyone else too! There are many here who love them very much and do not find them "boring" with plenty of details (actually with my gear I find them equal even with some BA hybrids I have).
> 
> What I`m trying to say, again - be more objective




The dude's just voicing his opinion of the ATR. Audio is damn subjective, and everyone knows it. No need to pressure him into saying that the ATR is a super fun headphone. There are plenty of others who will do that, including me.

If he doesn't like it, then he doesn't like it. Maybe it's a QC or fit issue, idk. But I think it's 100% okay for him to say that the ATR are boring if he wants. There's no need for everyone to think alike.


----------



## loomisjohnson

sometechnoob said:


> The dude's just voicing his opinion of the ATR. Audio is damn subjective, and everyone knows it. No need to pressure him into saying that the ATR is a super fun headphone. There are plenty of others who will do that, including me.
> 
> If he doesn't like it, then he doesn't like it. Maybe it's a QC or fit issue, idk. But I think it's 100% okay for him to say that the ATR are boring if he wants. There's no need for everyone to think alike.


 

 +1. the poster seems to be a sincere chap (not one of those reflexive haters) and i for one find it helpful to hear contrary impressions even if i might disagree with them


----------



## toddy0191

sometechnoob said:


> The dude's just voicing his opinion of the ATR.







loomisjohnson said:


> +1. the poster seems to be a sincere chap




Hehe. Pretty sure she's not a chap or a dude!


----------



## Kerkyboi

This is bad. Real bad. ZS3's are keeping me up past my bedtime already. Will share my impressions for this bad boys tomorrow. I just had to enjoy it a little bit more before going into details.


----------



## devleon

Just got my colored ZST in the mail... And wow. They are so much more comfortable than the ZS3. And they look awesome. 
Soundwise, they have a better sound stage than the ZS3, although not quite as much bass - but still plenty, don't get me wrong. I will post a more detailed comparison to the ZS3 in a bit. 

To bad they forgot to put the silver cable I ordered along with it :/ It's listed in the package contents, but definitely wasn't included :/


----------



## khighly

loomisjohnson said:


> +1. the poster seems to be a sincere chap (not one of those reflexive haters) and i for one find it helpful to hear contrary impressions even if i might disagree with them


 

 Agreed. I'm not trying to offend anyone or target anyone, I am just giving my own personal impressions of a KZ IEM I own, in a KZ impressions thread. I prefer the ZST's, others may prefer the ZS3 or ATR's. At the extremley low price, I suggest trying them yourself to form your own opinion. Both the ZST and ATR can be had for under $20 currently.


----------



## khighly

devleon said:


> Just got my colored ZST in the mail... And wow. They are so much more comfortable than the ZS3. And they look awesome.
> Soundwise, they have a better sound stage than the ZS3, although not quite as much bass - but still plenty, don't get me wrong. I will post a more detailed comparison to the ZS3 in a bit.
> 
> To bad they forgot to put the silver cable I ordered along with it :/ It's listed in the package contents, but definitely wasn't included :/


 

 Yeah! The ZST's are very comfortable with the starlines. I've slept with them in! Stinks about the cable, but there is no change in sound so grab a refund and wait for another . I imagine it looks very good on the ZST colorfuls!


----------



## ricemanhk

I think I read thru ~200 pages of this! Gonna order the zs3 and zst. The zs3 glossy and the zst colorful are the "2nd" versions right? Want to make sure I get the newly tuned ones.

I've been using xiaomi pistons gen 1 through gen 5 (the latest triple hybrid Pro HD) as my daily drivers, looking forward to trying some of these other Chinese IEMs everyone has been so excited over.

Anyone compare the sendiy m1221 with the KZs? I think I only read one review on that, saying they're much better tuned. Of course price is also quite a bit higher...


----------



## khighly

I just typed out an entire paragraph about the ED12's, but then went and tried random top 50 music after testing a few hours of soul/funk from Soulection and I erased all of it. These have a very unique sound signature that soul/funk (eg: soulection - joe kay weekly mixes) sound good on, but practically nothing else sounds good. Soundstage is there, but not enormous. They sound like you're listening to a cassette. I would never recommend these at a price higher than $4.

*Current List For Me (In Order):*
 ZST
 ATR
 ATE
 ED12

 I need to get my hands on a pair of ZS3's  ZST 'Pro' Colorfuls have been shipped!


----------



## khighly

The ED12's sure are gorgeous though!


----------



## Lorspeaker

KZ should just sell a KZstarterpack with their top5iems at a special price...!!


----------



## hoerlurar

lorspeaker said:


> KZ should just sell a KZstarterpack with their top5iems at a special price...!!


 

 Like a box of chocolate


----------



## To.M

Or a KZ six-pack  zst, zs3, ate, atr, ed9, ed3c


----------



## MAntunes

Any news of the 5 driver IEM from KZ?


----------



## bhazard

hoerlurar said:


> Like a box of chocolate


 
 That would actually be an awesome idea. Like a Russell Stover box of iems.


----------



## robervaul

Wearing Bluetooth, is expected to have the end of December


----------



## doggiemom

toddy0191 said:


> Hehe. Pretty sure she's not a chap or a dude!


 

 It is funny how people assume that everyone here is male......... (though the male:female ratio is pretty high.)


----------



## dudinacas

zabunny94 said:


> Nope, edr2 and ed2 are quite different iem, physically they share tha same housing type, but with different material. ed2 and edr1 are identical though
> 
> Second, edr2 has similar v-shaped sound as edr1/ed2. Yet it has some difference, particularly less muddy bass and bit more airy treble than edr1
> 
> Though the quality control is like a middle finger to us the customer, many reported that their edr2 housing falling off because the lack of glue(mine included)


 

 According to this guy: https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=EDR2 they sound exactly the same. Sorry about that, that was the only information I was going off :/


----------



## SomeTechNoob

doggiemom said:


> It is funny how people assume that everyone here is male......... (though the male:female ratio is pretty high.)


 
 Girls on the internet?  Blasphemy.


----------



## zabunny94

dudinacas said:


> According to this guy: https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=EDR2 they sound exactly the same. Sorry about that, that was the only information I was going off :/




Either my mind playing tricks on me, or this audiobudget guy didn't do a measurement for edr2 and pasted measurement from ed2 and just call it a day.

The graph looks exactly the same, and even if you measure the same model of iem, the graph won't look exactly the same afaik. So, i guess he just didn't measure edr2


----------



## dudinacas

zabunny94 said:


> Either my mind playing tricks on me, or this audiobudget guy didn't do a measurement for edr2 and pasted measurement from ed2 and just call it a day.
> 
> The graph looks exactly the same, and even if you measure the same model of iem, the graph won't look exactly the same afaik. So, i guess he just didn't measure edr2


 

 They look different to me...


----------



## zabunny94

dudinacas said:


> They look different to me...




My bad then... But I'll still stand by my words about the impression though


----------



## B9Scrambler

robervaul said:


> Wearing Bluetooth, is expected to have the end of December


 
  
 Dude! Where do you find this stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## n0ear5

Hello everyone. Is banggood a legit site to buy some kz products?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Don't see why not. I've ordered other stuff from them in the past and it was legit, including my Xiaomi Piston 3.

Usually a little pricier than gearbest but in my experience it arrives faster to my doorstep here in the us.


----------



## robervaul

b9scrambler said:


> Dude! Where do you find this stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 QQ's KZ


----------



## n0ear5

sometechnoob said:


> Don't see why not. I've ordered other stuff from them in the past and it was legit, including my Xiaomi Piston 3.
> 
> Usually a little pricier than gearbest but in my experience it arrives faster to my doorstep here in the us.


 

 Thanks. What would be the usual number of weeks for them to arrive? And could you please tell me the number of weeks for the gearbest orders also? I found out that it is kinda hard ( or impossible ) to track the gearbest package.


----------



## B9Scrambler

robervaul said:


> QQ's KZ


 
  
 Any chance you could provide a link 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? My Google-fu is failing me, haha.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

n0ear5 said:


> Thanks. What would be the usual number of weeks for them to arrive? And could you please tell me the number of weeks for the gearbest orders also? I found out that it is kinda hard ( or impossible ) to track the gearbest package.




Most of my stuff from Banggood arrives within 3 weeks. Usually 5-7 days if ordering from the US warehouse.

Meanwhile Gearbest takes anywhere from 2-6 weeks. I'm still waiting for my KZ eD9 from the 11/11 sale.

You can kinda track the gearbest order by going to your orders on gearbest. Copy the tracking number. Click where it says "shipped by: Netherlands post" or whatever was used to ship your package and it will bring you to the tracking site where you can check tracking.


----------



## n0ear5

sometechnoob said:


> Most of my stuff from Banggood arrives within 3 weeks. Usually 5-7 days if ordering from the US warehouse.
> 
> Meanwhile Gearbest takes anywhere from 2-6 weeks. I'm still waiting for my KZ eD9 from the 11/11 sale.
> 
> You can kinda track the gearbest order by going to your orders on gearbest. Copy the tracking number. Click where it says "shipped by: Netherlands post" or whatever was used to ship your package and it will bring you to the tracking site where you can check tracking.


 
  
 Thanks. So banggood would be a better choice next time I guess.
  
 I see, I can track it now. It was kinda weird because I couldn't track it before but now it says pre-advised. Thanks again for the help. One more question if you don't mind. What would be the best ( or your most prefered ) eartip for ate or atr? Thanks again


----------



## SomeTechNoob

n0ear5 said:


> Thanks. So banggood would be a better choice next time I guess.
> 
> I see, I can track it now. It was kinda weird because I couldn't track it before but now it says pre-advised. Thanks again for the help. One more question if you don't mind. What would be the best ( or your most prefered ) eartip for ate or atr? Thanks again




I didn't buy any aftermarket eartips. The smallest silicone ones which came with the ATR were the best for me. I also liked how the foam tips sounded, but the quality of those were terrible and they loosened up and kept staying in my ear when I pulled out the iem.


----------



## n0ear5

sometechnoob said:


> I didn't buy any aftermarket eartips. The smallest silicone ones which came with the ATR were the best for me. I also liked how the foam tips sounded, but the quality of those were terrible and they loosened up and kept staying in my ear when I pulled out the iem.


 
  
 Ok. Anyway, thanks again for your help.


----------



## dudinacas

sometechnoob said:


> I didn't buy any aftermarket eartips. The smallest silicone ones which came with the ATR were the best for me. I also liked how the foam tips sounded, but the quality of those were terrible and they loosened up and kept staying in my ear when I pulled out the iem.


 

 Are the tips that come with the ATR regular black or that translucent colour with red bores?


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > It`s pretty ok but not as balanced as ATR for example. EDR2 sounds quite warm but that`s also due to somewhat small and narrow soundstage. ATE for example leaves You with immersive soundstage feeling compared to EDR2. EDR2 soundstage isn`t small though, about average.
> ...


 
 Actually, I agree to You and You described them better. My words came from memory but I listened them shortly again and agree with You.


----------



## CoiL

zabunny94 said:


> dudinacas said:
> 
> 
> > According to this guy: https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=EDR2 they sound exactly the same. Sorry about that, that was the only information I was going off :/
> ...


 
 Audioudget is NOT reliable source, it is "fed" by AE sellers and opinions are very subjective.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

dudinacas said:


> Are the tips that come with the ATR regular black or that translucent colour with red bores?


 
 Single color.  More of a translucent dark gray.


----------



## dudinacas

coil said:


> Audioudget is NOT reliable source, it is "fed" by AE sellers and opinions are very subjective.


 
 Ah, alright then. That sucks, any other good sites for this kind of thing other than Head-fi?
  


sometechnoob said:


> Single color.  More of a translucent dark gray.


 
 Oh cool, if they give me a bad seal I also ordered whirlwind tips but they look similar to the ones I'm currently using.


----------



## crabdog

Brought my ATR to work today and left my new PM4 at home. ATR is so darn good


----------



## khighly

sometechnoob said:


> Most of my stuff from Banggood arrives within 3 weeks. Usually 5-7 days if ordering from the US warehouse.
> 
> Meanwhile Gearbest takes anywhere from 2-6 weeks. I'm still waiting for my KZ eD9 from the 11/11 sale.
> 
> You can kinda track the gearbest order by going to your orders on gearbest. Copy the tracking number. Click where it says "shipped by: Netherlands post" or whatever was used to ship your package and it will bring you to the tracking site where you can check tracking.


 

 Banggood is usually 14 days exactly to my door. I've never not received anything from them either.


----------



## Shawn71

crabdog said:


> Brought my ATR to work today and left my new PM4 at home. ATR is so darn good




Yes its so true and that tells the story why you brought atr.to work....definitely serious music listener loves it but those who are fun sig lover or bass head as such?meh.....to those,nothing to lose giving it a shot what $4atr brings to the table---mids,imaging etc!! But yeah this is not a "lov at first listen" sound for many tho,but definitely no disappointment if some brain-in time given!


----------



## Byfrost

Damn, the KZ official site is still marked as hacked... 

Got myself the KZ ED Special Edition iems. Was expecting it to be a bass monster, but it sounds very balanced, though lacking of depth.


----------



## dudinacas

byfrost said:


> Damn, the KZ official site is still marked as hacked...
> 
> Got myself the KZ ED Special Edition iems. Was expecting it to be a bass monster, but it sounds very balanced, though lacking of depth.


 

 Marked as hacked? What do you mean by that? I don't know much about the KZ website.


----------



## khighly




----------



## bartzky

Hi! I received the ED9 a few days ago and unfortunately discovered serious flaws. The bass nozzles differ significantly in the upper mids and treble, as the frequency response shows. By changing the nozzles from left to right the phenomenon changes sides as well.
  

  
 The so called "balanced nozzle" perform even worse:
  

  
 First of all the bass response is less than balanced or flat. In addition both sides vary significantly. Again the nozzles are to blame: One has one ventilation hole drilled, while the other one has two.
 Even more the "balanced nozzles" produce strange jitter sound that are even visible in the above measurements as bass wiggles.
  
 Has anyone experienced similar issues?
  
 In case someone likes to see more of my measurements for comparison: http://headflux.de/messungen/


----------



## ayao

bartzky said:


> Hi! I received the ED9 a few days ago and unfortunately discovered serious flaws. The bass nozzles differ significantly in the upper mids and treble, as the frequency response shows. By changing the nozzles from left to right the phenomenon changes sides as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are the "balanced" nozzles the non-shiny ones that turn green over time?
  
 IIRC, there is a tiny circular "piece" in each nozzle, covering the ports. When I received my ED9, one of the pieces wasn't properly seated in the nozzle, and I also had severe bass imbalance. I "pushed" the circular piece into place, and the imbalance was fixed. I'm pretty sure mine has 1 hole/port on each nozzle though. The lack of bass matches what I hear from my ED9. In terms of the jittery bass response, it's usually an error on the measurement side for me (mainly when I don't get a proper seal). Do you get the exact same jittery response after repeated measurements?
  
 Unfortunately, I can't speak for the bass nozzles, as I lost them a long time ago (wasn't a fan of the V-signature). I think there were foam pieces inside those nozzles, so that might be the cause of the treble imbalance (just a guess though).


----------



## bartzky

ayao said:


> IIRC, there is a tiny circular "piece" in each nozzle, covering the ports. When I received my ED9, one of the pieces wasn't properly seated in the nozzle, and I also had severe bass imbalance. I "pushed" the circular piece into place, and the imbalance was fixed. I'm pretty sure mine has 1 hole/port on each nozzle though. The lack of bass matches what I hear from my ED9.



The "pieces" seem to be properly in place but they don't look as they were of good quality. I would blame them for the jittery sounds.
The imbalance though is clearly a problem caused by the additional bore.



> In terms of the jittery bass response, it's usually an error on the measurement side for me (mainly when I don't get a proper seal). Do you get the exact same jittery response after repeated measurements?



Well, the above graphs are a result of *a lot* of averaged individual measurements. As you already said it usually is a fault of the measurement procedure itself, so I already repeated the measurement multiple times to be sure.


----------



## Highspeedfreak

I been reading this thread for quite some time now. I really enjoy the discussion. Yesterday I ordered the ZST. Looking forward to compare them to my Etymotc HF5 I use now.
 Does anyone know how to stop order all the KZ products? 


 I have EDR2, ZS3 and ATR in my shopping cart. Will do my best not to hit buy. 

 To qoute Queen. "I want it all"


----------



## Lorspeaker

ed9?


----------



## aaDee

It's been a week that I'm using ATR and can't tell you how much I'm enjoying them. Soundstage, imaging, details, decent bass and wonderful vocals it has everything. Can't believe I just paid $6 for them. Instrumental positioning is excellent and treble is not grainy but smooth. Just perfect for long listening hours.
I'm using them on Cowon C2 with stock tips. Have ordered Xduoo X10 and waiting to hear ATRs on them.


----------



## hoerlurar

highspeedfreak said:


> I been reading this thread for quite some time now. I really enjoy the discussion. Yesterday I ordered the ZST. Looking forward to compare them to my Etymotc HF5 I use now.
> Does anyone know how to stop order all the KZ products?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 if we knew how to (or wanted to, or knew we wanted to
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) stop, do you think we still would be here?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i tried to resist the ZST as well, but after several positive reviews and impressions lately i got too curious and ordered them a couple of days ago as well.
 EDR2, ZS3 and ATR are good ones! don't forget HDS1 and ED9 as well
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (ED3c/ED3m, ED4 and HDSE are not 'must-buy' earphones to me though)


----------



## khighly

highspeedfreak said:


> I been reading this thread for quite some time now. I really enjoy the discussion. Yesterday I ordered the ZST. Looking forward to compare them to my Etymotc HF5 I use now.
> 
> Does anyone know how to stop order all the KZ products?
> 
> ...



They have bass response that the etymotics wish they had, without being overpowering. They're different.


----------



## Highspeedfreak

hoerlurar said:


> if we knew how to (or wanted to, or knew we wanted to:blink: ) stop, do you think we still would be here?
> i tried to resist the ZST as well, but after several positive reviews and impressions lately i got too curious and ordered them a couple of days ago as well.
> EDR2, ZS3 and ATR are good ones! don't forget HDS1 and ED9 as well:wink_face:
> (ED3c/ED3m, ED4 and HDSE are not 'must-buy' earphones to me though)



I could not resist
Maybe I will order the HDS1 and ED9 tomorrow. 



khighly said:


> They have bass response that the etymotics wish they had, without being overpowering. They're different.


Does not sound to bad. 
I have to be honest though. Since they are that cheap, or affordable, I am not expecting to much.


----------



## Kerkyboi

Good to see that people are receiving their gears from last months sale. I too have been busy enjoying the zs3 for the past 24 hours! This are indeed fun to listen to! Can't wait to get my hands on the zst next but if my calculations are right they'll arrive 1st week of next year. But if by any chance they arrive before the year ends that would be a miracle!


----------



## chompchomps

if anything , heres a link to  a $14 colourful ZST's. Not sure if the shop is credible tho
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZST-Earphone-Balanced-Armature-With-Dynamic-Earphone-hybrid-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic/32759964812.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.269.nqeE5Z&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_426_10073_10103_10102_10096_10052_10050_10051-10050_9999,searchweb201603_9&btsid=3dba5979-6e74-4e8d-943d-cb74cb082b2b
  
 Been looking for one that is around gearbest's price and only gotten about $20 so far.


----------



## devleon

chompchomps said:


> if anything , heres a link to  a $14 colourful ZST's. Not sure if the shop is credible tho
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZST-Earphone-Balanced-Armature-With-Dynamic-Earphone-hybrid-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic/32759964812.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.269.nqeE5Z&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_426_10073_10103_10102_10096_10052_10050_10051-10050_9999,searchweb201603_9&btsid=3dba5979-6e74-4e8d-943d-cb74cb082b2b
> 
> Been looking for one that is around gearbest's price and only gotten about $20 so far.


 
 I can only recommend going with AliExpress as this point. Everything I ordered (ZST Pro and various foam tips) that shipped via "AliExpress Standard Shipping" were here in 9 Days!
  
 Meanwhile, my Gearbest ATRs from the 29th haven't even shipped... Boohoo.


----------



## Griffith

devleon said:


> I can only recommend going with AliExpress as this point. Everything I ordered (ZST Pro and various foam tips) that shipped via "AliExpress Standard Shipping" were here in 9 Days!
> 
> Meanwhile, my Gearbest ATRs from the 29th haven't even shipped... Boohoo.




I also had a similar issue with Gearbest but overall I'd still say they are a reliable seller. Even when I have issues their support has, so far, been impeccable whereas I can't say the same for the communication with some Aliexpress sellers that can barely speak English...


----------



## Kerkyboi

devleon said:


> I can only recommend going with AliExpress as this point. Everything I ordered (ZST Pro and various foam tips) that shipped via "AliExpress Standard Shipping" were here in 9 Days!
> 
> Meanwhile, my Gearbest ATRs from the 29th haven't even shipped... Boohoo.


If it wasn't for the price i'll stick with ali ordering gears. Ordered my atr together with the kz zst but they hold off the shipping for weeks due to unavailability of zst stocks and now its atr's turn to run out and told me they already shipped the zst and will just seperately ship the atr once back on stock. Jeez.



griffith said:


> I also had a similar issue with Gearbest but overall I'd still say they are a reliable seller. Even when I have issues their support has, so far, been impeccable whereas I can't say the same for the communication with some Aliexpress sellers that can barely speak English...


 I can agree with you on that with GB support. If it wasn't from their cust support, I wouldn't be ordering any more stuff from them after I paid for the ed12's (which until now hasn't arrived). Ended up paying 6 bucks for the zs3 (now here with me) and 11 bucks for both the zst and atr. Their free shipping method plainly sucks and I'm not paying for premium shipping specially when it costs way more than the items I purchased. And as for aliexpress, just make sure you buy from reputable sellers. Been buying stuff from them for quite some time and had almost zero stress so far. Standard 2 weeks for all the different items I ordered from them. (Sorry for going a bit off topic, back to enjoying my zs3 for now)


----------



## chompchomps

yeah, havnt had much problems with both, just that they take way too long to arrive. Sometimes i surprise myself with "gifts" from long ago
  
  
 Anyway while thrawling the web
  
 Purple ZST's with silver cable about $20 from taobao, comes up to 30SGD. 
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/538360481419.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w5003-15291182286.1.8OOLOO&scene=taobao_shop


----------



## Lorspeaker

i dun hv problem buying from aliexpress so far too..
 most arrived within a week or two..
 some items were not what i ordered, refunded or discounts given.
 i get to keep the items ..so no issues so far. Thumbs up.
  
 Gearbest...gotten all my iems in good time...
 cept zst, but i am not complaining..yet 
 The price is unbeatable so far. Two Thumbs up!!


----------



## Redcarmoose

_*Just loving the new W 1 Pro cable guides for 2016. They listened and made them stiffer, resulting in something very close to perfect!*_


----------



## CoiL

Just ordered 2x 5th gen ATE from GB, again, they are just that good and in modified configuration pretty near to my personal subjective SQ perfection ;P
  
 ZST has to wait... again.


----------



## Lorspeaker

ZST has arrived...
  
 put on my reading glasses, and some audiophile commonsense
 managed to get the wires hooked up..the right n left way 
  
 The shells sit very easy on my ears, comfy...much more than ZS3. 
  
 From the first sec, i can sense an ease this iem puts out music,
 fine, well separated spread of sonic cues. No swarming bass-al sound.
 Running thru the diff genres now.. hmmm..din find any glaring weakness yet;
  
 i felt, the ZST sounds a class above all the KZs i have thus far.
 ( havent bot the ATE, but doubt i will need it)
  
 If u are still cherrypicking...hit the BUY mutton now.


----------



## zabunny94

coil said:


> Just ordered 2x 5th gen ATE from GB, again, they are just that good and in modified configuration pretty near to my personal subjective SQ perfection ;P
> 
> ZST has to wait... again.




Every time i contemplating about buying zst, i listen to my ATE which act as some kind of reality check about how it is impossible to get a better sound than this unless i shell out at least $50 for ath im50.


----------



## Lorspeaker

WALK  THIS WAY sounds amazing on the ZST...this iem ROCKSSSSSSS!!!
  
 ROCKET SCIENCE..MissionImpossible2...dammmmm....this is BALLISTIC !!!
  
  
 ANGEL...Sarah baby McLachlan....ooooooohhhhh i am in love allover again.
  
  
  
  
  
 ps...straight off my McAir lappy...
 waitiing for my Xduoo X10 to arrive ..this is gonna be a treat for a greatyearclosing.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

@Lorspeaker Did you get the black ZST or the colorful ZST "pro"?


----------



## Lorspeaker

The black ones.... cant read mandarin...the Taobao website with all the other cable options looks tempting. 
 Wish Gearbest willl keep up with that site too ....but at a better price )))))))
  
  
  
  
  
 ^
 Pavarotti...the Three Tenors...sounds v PREsENT...v LIVELY ..ouuuhhhh wahhh arrrghhh nice !!


----------



## ayao

I've been using the ZST for about 5 days now, and am still loving it! It might be due to the W-shaped signature (I don't really have any similar IEMs), but it's my go-to IEM for a fun sound. If I want something warmer, I'd take out my VSD3. $11 USD for the colorful version (11.11 sale) was a fantastic deal, and I'd recommend them even if they are $18USD!


----------



## khighly

ayao said:


> I've been using the ZST for about 5 days now, and am still loving it! It might be due to the W-shaped signature (I don't really have any similar IEMs), but it's my go-to IEM for a fun sound. If I want something warmer, I'd take out my VSD3. $11 USD for the colorful version (11.11 sale) was a fantastic deal, and I'd recommend them even if they are $18USD!


 

 How is the soundstage on yours? I just listened to some classical music and I'm able to pick out X-Y & even Z axis. It's awesome.


----------



## ayao

khighly said:


> How is the soundstage on yours? I just listened to some classical music and I'm able to pick out X-Y & even Z axis. It's awesome.


 
  I think soundstage width is very good, though imaging does feel more oval shaped compared to my U12 (which costs like 100x more haha).


----------



## Saoshyant

My Colorful ZST has arrived in the US, so hopefully by Tuesday or so. I'm really hoping it'll be a budget hybrid I enjoy, as of the 3 hybrids I've tried so far (all at different price points) two I found boring. The only one I like was expensive, and frankly probably doesn't perform competitively for the price.


----------



## To.M

lorspeaker said:


> i felt, the ZST sounds a class above all the KZs i have thus far.




Yes sir, that is exactly what I think about them!  and that is what I tried to say about them from the beginning, I am happy that I hear more and more positive opinions about ZST, they fully deserve it!


----------



## Lorspeaker

Its been a few hours with the ZST... 
 no pain on or in my ears..
 switching from Note3 to McAir to Audiogd dac.amp.
 many genres thrown at it..
 noisychurchworships..haunting cello..to soaring vocals
 yet to find this iem fatiguing..its clear n well behaved...
 beautiful ... $12bucks??
  
 BUYBUYBUY !!!


----------



## ashliejay

after falling in love with my ZSTs, would anyone know which connectors would fit them, as i'd like to be able to modify a bluetooth upgrade cable to fit them, as i've looked around aliexpress, and ebay, and couldn't see which connectors would fit, although ultimate ears triple Fi 10 connectors seem the most likely to fit.


----------



## n0ear5

Is there a way where I can use paypal to pay through aliexpress?


----------



## CoiL

chompchomps said:


> if anything , heres a link to  a $14 colourful ZST's. Not sure if the shop is credible tho
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZST-Earphone-Balanced-Armature-With-Dynamic-Earphone-hybrid-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic/32759964812.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.269.nqeE5Z&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_426_10073_10103_10102_10096_10052_10050_10051-10050_9999,searchweb201603_9&btsid=3dba5979-6e74-4e8d-943d-cb74cb082b2b
> 
> Been looking for one that is around gearbest's price and only gotten about $20 so far.


 


ayao said:


> I've been using the ZST for about 5 days now, and am still loving it! It might be due to the W-shaped signature (I don't really have any similar IEMs), but it's my go-to IEM for a fun sound. If I want something warmer, I'd take out my VSD3. $11 USD for the colorful version (11.11 sale) was a fantastic deal, and I'd recommend them even if they are $18USD!


 
  
 Ok, after hearing it has W-shaped signature - I gave up and bought ZST colorful -.- 
 I decided to go with seller I have had no problems yet - NiceHCK and another reason was cable without mic. When I used -2$ coupon, I got 18$ deal.
  
 Dammit guys! Better hope it is for my taste and WAY better than ATE 5th gen or.... -.-


----------



## Lorspeaker

TomJones gyrating his Waist in....." KISS"... thats the W-shapedsig


----------



## To.M

*Z*estfully *S*ounding *T*ones


----------



## Lorspeaker

those who dig trance, electronic music..is gonna love the enveloping surreal sound..
  
 country music is a floorstomping in the barn/bar...its wild 
  
 jazz...speedy, crisp, fingersnappy...
  
  
 chopin piano works, an obscure cd in my collection.. 
 lone piano playing in an old hall a distance away...
 the ambience n realism is not allowing me to switch song..sheeezzz


----------



## devleon

You guys make me crazy, without you guys I wouldn't have the colorful ZST Pro and ZS3 now, as well as ATR and a Walnut V2 in the mail...


----------



## chinmie

I already have the ATR and also listened to my friend's ZS3. I really like the ATR for their warm sound, tight bass and nice detail, but i also like the ZS3 for their "more surround" soundstage, but the bass for me is a little boomy on fast songs, although for slow beat music is great.
  
 I'm currently eyeing between ZST and ED9. how do they compare to each other and also to the ATR? which of them have the bigger soundstage and detail?


----------



## Lorspeaker

i just ordered a colorful ZST... 
  
  
 ZST is more in line with the ssurroundound mould of the ZS3 but "better" ...minus the boominess..
 like a well executed zs3?
  
 ED9 to my ears is more "concentrated"... a brighter density to the sound. 
 but u can switch around the nozzle..to a fuller bassier sound.


----------



## To.M

Damn, I try to stop myself from buying the colourful ZST (bought the silver cable instead) but you are not helping with your example


----------



## doggiemom

chompchomps said:


> yeah, havnt had much problems with both, just that they take way too long to arrive. Sometimes i surprise myself with "gifts" from long ago
> 
> 
> Anyway while thrawling the web
> ...


 

 Is there a way to view this site in English?  I poked around but couldn't find a way.


----------



## khighly

chinmie said:


> I already have the ATR and also listened to my friend's ZS3. I really like the ATR for their warm sound, tight bass and nice detail, but i also like the ZS3 for their "more surround" soundstage, but the bass for me is a little boomy on fast songs, although for slow beat music is great.
> 
> I'm currently eyeing between ZST and ED9. how do they compare to each other and also to the ATR? which of them have the bigger soundstage and detail?




ZST is better than the ATR's in every way in my personal opinion. They're bright, fun, detailed, crisp. The lows sit right where they need to and are amazingly clear and precise. The highs extend much further out than the ATR's and at first are a little much. Give your brain a day or two to adjust and the highs will sound even more amazing. They're definitely less muddy than the ATR's and have a much larger soundstage. Once you go ZST's the ATR's will collect dust. Looking at the last page of this thread, you'd have a tough time saying I'm lying about them


----------



## khighly

coil said:


> Ok, after hearing it has W-shaped signature - I gave up and bought ZST colorful -.-
> I decided to go with seller I have had no problems yet - NiceHCK and another reason was cable without mic. When I used -2$ coupon, I got 18$ deal.
> 
> Dammit guys! Better hope it is for my taste and WAY better than ATE 5th gen or.... -.-




I patiently await your apology and look forward to your ATR's being retired.


----------



## B9Scrambler

My detailed first impressions of the ZST after a few days of use. I'm using the included large "Starline" tips. No particular test tracks. All subject to change.
  
 Pros:
 - imaging and layering
 - detail retrieval throughout the entire range
 - texture and clarity
  
 Cons:
 - thin mid and upper registers; only bass carries any weight or heft
 - some vocals sound unnaturally crisp and digital especially with ts and ss
  
 While I've only spent a few days with the ZST, it's pretty clear they are a worthy buy. If you love the ED9, particularly with the Gold filters installed, these come across as a slightly brighter, way more technically adept version. From a technical level I'd say this is the most impressive thing KZ has put out. Their ability to layer sound within a capacious soundstage is impressive for such a cheap earphone. So is the accuracy and precision in the way sound moves about. I feel their treble presentation is overboosted, however, seemingly with the sole purpose of highlighting how much detail these things can pull out. It's unnecessary and can be a little distracting at times._ Realized I had my EQ on and treble boosted as I was testing out EQ options for the Brainwavz M100 earlier. My b! Everything else still applies however._
  
 Personally, I miss the treble refinement and silky smoothness of the ATR and ZS3 with their easy-listening signatures, along with the full, lush midranges these two present. The ZST won't be replacing them in my lineup just yet. It's just way too energetic and aggressive to do what they do so well, that being chill the @#%$ out.
  
 The ZST is certainly impressive and if this is the route KZ will be taking moving forward, I'm all for it. It would be nice to see KZ enter the ring with a more balanced hybrid on their next outing; less bass, less overly boosted treble. Hopefully that 10-driver unit teased a while back is real and doesn't go with a sound that plays around in the extremes with the consistency of the ZST.
  
  
​


----------



## dudinacas

b9scrambler said:


> My detailed first impressions of the ZST after a few days of use. I'm using the included large "Starline" tips.


 
 What's the difference between Starline tips and the normal ones that come with KZ headphones (eg. ED9)? Are they better than Whirlwind tips?


----------



## B9Scrambler

dudinacas said:


> What's the difference between Starline tips and the normal ones that come with KZ headphones (eg. ED9)? Are they better than Whirlwind tips?


 



 Left are Starline, middle are stock ATR large, right are stock ED9 medium

 BTW, Starline is not an official name as far as I know. Someone here coined it (CoiL maybe?) and I like it, so Starline it is.

 I find they use a somewhat stiffer but very flexible material. They just seal well and work with nearly everything I try them on. They're one of my favorite tips, so I bought a whole bunch more on AliExpress. Just waiting for them to arrive.


----------



## dudinacas

b9scrambler said:


> Left are Starline, middle are stock ATR large, right are stock ED9 medium
> 
> BTW, Starline is not an official name as far as I know. Someone here coined it (CoiL maybe?) and I like it, so Starline it is.
> 
> I find they use a somewhat stiffer but very flexible material. They just seal well and work with nearly everything I try them on. They're one of my favorite tips, so I bought a whole bunch more on AliExpress. Just waiting for them to arrive.


 
 Oh, great! Thanks for the info! I need to stop buying tips though...


----------



## B9Scrambler

dudinacas said:


> Oh, great! Thanks for the info! I need to stop buying tips though...


 
 You are welcome! These are the only spare tips I've ever purchased. JVC and UE tips did a great job for the last couple years, but these new KZ tips....I needed more.


----------



## To.M

Fortunately, they are waaay cheaper than the ones from JVC  so for the price of one set of spiral dots you can get half a kilo of starline tips


----------



## Griffith

to.m said:


> Fortunately, they are waaay cheaper than the ones from JVC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Half a kilo? Are you going to make a soup out of them?


----------



## jant71

b9scrambler said:


> You are welcome! These are the only spare tips I've ever purchased. JVC and UE tips did a great job for the last couple years, but these new KZ tips....I needed more.


 

 We need more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What do they do? Seal well and accent bass some? Any change to treble? I like JVC standard tips over Spiral dots due to more treble. Or with UE, the grays give taller stage but less bass than the newer clear style UE from the UE600. That kinda of stuff. They have to have a subtle thing they do to the sound vs. some others?
  
  
 Not sure I need them vs. my CKP200 tip. Same 4mm opening and also a firmer silicone. What they do more than most other tips is adding bass extention w/o affecting treble much. Some do add bass extension but add more bass than these do. These have thick cores that keep bass tighter and more controlled and not adding much. Of course getting the KZ Starline is not an issue being so cheap but didn't like the last KZ (Whirlwind) any better than the older gray UE(very similar) and one medium whirlwind ripped from the stem cause they are a bit thin.


----------



## chinmie

b9scrambler said:


> My detailed first impressions of the ZST after a few days of use. I'm using the included large "Starline" tips. No particular test tracks. All subject to change.
> 
> Pros:
> - imaging and layering
> ...




so, in your personal opinion, should i get the ED9 or the ZST for wide soundstage and detail?


----------



## B9Scrambler

jant71 said:


> We need more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hated the whirlwind tips. Could never get a decent seal with them. They looked good though, haha.
  
 The core is stiff and the bore slightly wider than on Sony hybrids. They certainly don't feel delicate. In the past I found that generally, Sony hybrids soften treble response and accentuate bass, JVC tips boost treble and reduce bass quantity, and UE tips find a nice medium between the two but can make some earphones sound a tad dull. The UE tips I have came with my UE600.
  
 I haven't noticed any particular quality about the Starline tips that stands out. I mostly just like them because they seem to work fine with most everything I've tried them with, and they seal consistently well without needing to fiddle around with positioning. More for convenience than anything is why I like them since I'm always removing earphones for work (answering phone calls, etc.).


----------



## B9Scrambler

chinmie said:


> so, in your personal opinion, should i get the ED9 or the ZST for wide soundstage and detail?


 
  
 ZST, without question. Their soundstage is much, much larger. Detail is better too. Also keep in mind that while I like the ED9, there are a number of other KZs I like a lot more (ATR, EDR2, ZS3, ED10...). If anyone else has both the ZST and ED9, what do you think?


----------



## chompchomps

doggiemom said:


> Is there a way to view this site in English?  I poked around but couldn't find a way.


 
  
 I use google translate automatically to loosely translate some terms but i can read mandarin so its cool for me. I can point you to the links if you need anything, so you can buy it directly using Mr tao or some forwarding courier


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Well, after almost a month, my KZ ED9s arrived.
  
 First impressions: bbbbbassssssss
  

  

  

  

  
 Still have not tried out the other barrels.  Treble seems a little bit unrefined from what I'm used to, but soundstage and imaging are quite good.  Also, bassss.
  
 edit: also SUPER efficient.  Much more efficient than my ATR.  The noise floor on my DACport HD can be pretty easily heard even on low gain.


----------



## doggiemom

chompchomps said:


> I use google translate automatically to loosely translate some terms but i can read mandarin so its cool for me. I can point you to the links if you need anything, so you can buy it directly using Mr tao or some forwarding courier


 

 Thank you for the kind offer.  Between the translator and the courier it all seems to complicated for me!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But I appreciate your willingness to help.
  
 On another note, I received the ED12 and silver cable recently.  Why is there not much love for these?  They sound pretty good and the colored housings are really cool.  I like the ATR and ZSTs better from a sound perspective, but I don't think the ED12s are bad.


----------



## chompchomps

doggiemom said:


> Thank you for the kind offer.  Between the translator and the courier it all seems to complicated for me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No worries! We're all a community with the same hobby and passion!
  
 I think most people use MisterTao here if they're in the US: http://www.mistertao.com/beta/
  
 Then just copy the link of the earphones or whatever on taobao into the search box at the top, heres a direct link where ive put the link of the ZST's in
 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/538360481419.html
  
 Most of KZ's description are in mandarin so its kinda not possible to translate, but its quite a hassle free process once your account with mistertao is done, skips the whole complicated payment process buying from taobao direct
  
 Disclaimer, im not in any way affliated with MisterTao just thought it might benefit you!


----------



## rigui

Hi. I'm planning to buy between Kz zst and Xiaomi hybrid. Which one do you prefer? Thanks


----------



## chompchomps

doggiemom said:


> Thank you for the kind offer.  Between the translator and the courier it all seems to complicated for me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No worries! We're all a community with the same hobby and passion!
  
 I think most people use MisterTao here if they're in the US: http://www.mistertao.com/beta/
  
 Then just copy the link of the earphones or whatever on taobao into the search box at the top, heres a direct link where ive put the link of the ZST's in
 http://www.mistertao.com/beta/pages/item/538360481419.html
  
 Most of KZ's description are in mandarin so its kinda not possible to translate, but its quite a hassle free process once your account with mistertao is done, skips the whole complicated payment process buying from taobao direct
  
 Disclaimer, im not in any way affliated with MisterTao just thought it might benefit you!


----------



## Lorspeaker

I think finally it will come to gears matching for each iem..
Wats just right on my setup can be too lean on a higher resolution one ..haa

Anyway...buy the ZST..you hv no choice..
The force is with ME


----------



## rigui

@Lorspeaker I'll go for the ZST then? They have the same price in the store..


----------



## khighly

I decided to try the large tips on the ATR because medium and small were pushing out of my ears. This improved the sound greatly when I guess I finally got a good stable seall. *I'm going to admit*, the ATR's have very similar characteristics to the ZST's but both have an entirely different sound signature. The mid bass helps pull bass guitars out and give them texture. Soundstage is very good as well. The ATR's are flat sounding with a mid-bass peak. They do poorly with bass under 50hz. They are not great with most EDM. The ZST's are bright, fun, and have an advantage with their soundstage and ability to sound good with anything I throw at them. ATR's are a close second to the ZST for sure.

 I really wish the ATR's had more bass extension.


----------



## Lorspeaker

rigui said:


> @Lorspeaker I'll go for the ZST then? They have the same price in the store..




Bought black zst from gearbest..
Colored zst from aliexpress..using chompchomp link


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, after hearing it has W-shaped signature - I gave up and bought ZST colorful -.-
> ...


 Apology for what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I`ve already understood that Your personal subjective preference doesn`t apply to me. 
 I bought ZST only because of some other users comments on them being W-shaped with good vocals and supposedly large soundstage (I`m junkie for it and no IEM hasn`t yet gone further in that than ATE, BK50, Havi B3P1 - which all are with quite large soundstage).
  

  


b9scrambler said:


> My detailed first impressions of the ZST after a few days of use. I'm using the included large "Starline" tips. No particular test tracks. All subject to change.
> 
> Pros:
> - imaging and layering
> ...


 
 Should have waited for Your impressions before ordering ZST. Well, I hope they won`t be too far off for my taste and I can still use the shells for modding.
  


b9scrambler said:


> dudinacas said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, great! Thanks for the info! I need to stop buying tips though...
> ...


 
 Yeah, those "starline" tips are very good (I gave them that name, sorry LOL  ) but be careful when ordering them - first time I ordered them from HCK I got real "starline" tips, second time from same place came regular ones instead (well, it was just 2$ anyway).


khighly said:


> I decided to try the large tips on the ATR because medium and small were pushing out of my ears. This improved the sound greatly when I guess I finally got a good stable seall. *I'm going to admit*, the ATR's have very similar characteristics to the ZST's but both have an entirely different sound signature. The mid bass helps pull bass guitars out and give them texture. Soundstage is very good as well. The ATR's are flat sounding with a mid-bass peak. They do poorly with bass under 50hz. They are not great with most EDM. The ZST's are bright, fun, and have an advantage with their soundstage and ability to sound good with anything I throw at them. ATR's are a close second to the ZST for sure.
> 
> *I really wish the ATR's had more bass extension.*


 
 Try making them open-back and close nozzle port holes


----------



## aaDee

coil said:


> Try making them open-back and close nozzle port holes


 
 How do you do that? Can you guide me to the mod link?


----------



## gobin

Guys, excuse me for my irrelevant question.
  
 Can I properly play an .flac file on my laptop? or it is impossible and I need an amp or something like that?
  
 If it can be done on my laptop, than what software should I use? is Windows Media Players or Music app on windows 10 enough?
  
 I tried to download and play a .flac file with WMP but so far I've only noticed that the sound when I listens on high volume is a bit more comfortable and softer than that of from similar track on youtube.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Vidal

rigui said:


> Hi. I'm planning to buy between Kz zst and Xiaomi hybrid. Which one do you prefer? Thanks


 
  
 Asking that question in the KZ thread will probably only get you one answer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My view ZST is better than the older twin hybrid (Pro), but the newer Xiaomi Dual Dynamic Hybrid (HD Pro) is better than the ZST. I can't give you detailed breakdown between the two as I no longer have a ZST to make that comparison.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

gobin said:


> Guys, excuse me for my irrelevant question.
> 
> Can I properly play an .flac file on my laptop? or it is impossible and I need an amp or something like that?
> 
> ...


 
 Flac can be played on pretty much any laptop.  It's just a matter of the media player supporting the codec.
  
 Windows Media Player should be able to handle the flac.  However, most of us will recommend foobar2000, which is highly customizable and can support fancy technologies like ASIO and WASAPI.
  
 If you have a high quality MP3 that's encoded in 320kbps, the difference is very hard to tell from lossless FLAC.  Doing youtube->MP3 generally reduces quality a bit, but if the youtube source quality is good, you can get a half decent song file.


----------



## ricemanhk

vidal said:


> Asking that question in the KZ thread will probably only get you one answer
> 
> My view ZST is better than the older twin hybrid (Pro), but the newer Xiaomi Dual Dynamic Hybrid (HD Pro) is better than the ZST. I can't give you detailed breakdown between the two as I no longer have a ZST to make that comparison.




Really? I have the xiaomi gen 5s, waiting for my zst and zs3 to arrive. I was under the impression the zst and even zs3 would be better...

Anyway should have them next week and will hear for myself


----------



## CoiL

vidal said:


> ...but the newer Xiaomi Dual Dynamic Hybrid (HD Pro) is better than the ZST.


 
 Link to that exact product?
 That one? - http://www.mi.com/en/headphonesprohd/


----------



## sfogar

coil said:


> Link to that exact product?
> That one? - http://www.mi.com/en/headphonesprohd/


 
 Hi,
  
 these ?
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_261864.html


----------



## CoiL

sfogar said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Link to that exact product?
> ...


 
 I think they are not same or not originals cuz originals cost above 30$ and from the link You provided it seems to be 1x DD + 1x BA.
 These should be HD Pro 2x DD + 1x BA: http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_566702.html


----------



## CoiL

aadee said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Try making them open-back and close nozzle port holes
> ...


 
 For trying out the result - just put a turn of tape over nozzle lower neck where the breathing port holes are and just remove back covers of shells (look at thread gallery how to do it, it`s easy).
 But note that this mod goes along only with KZ "Starline" silicone tips and lower impedance cable used!


coil said:


>


----------



## aaDee

coil said:


> For trying out the result - just put a turn of tape over nozzle lower neck where the breathing port holes are and just remove back covers of shells (look at thread gallery how to do it, it`s easy).
> But note that this mod goes along only with KZ "Starline" silicone tips and lower impedance cable used!



Thanks a lot buddy for the help..


----------



## chompchomps

Caved and bought the ZST's with silver cable. im ashamed of my self discipline


----------



## B9Scrambler

chompchomps said:


> Caved and bought the ZST's with silver cable. im ashamed of my self discipline




Congrats! You wouldn't be a true Head-fi'er without horrible self discipline  hahaha


----------



## To.M

Self discipline is an obstacle on the road to the audio heaven! 

chompchomps we are proud of you!


----------



## Lorspeaker

some experiment..
  
 tried the starline tips on ED9... 
 the sound gets more spacious but lose out on the tightness n thumppp of the bass.
  
 tried starline tips on the ZS3, disastrous...total lost of ambience..spatial cue...
 something shut down...back to the original redcore tips, all good again.
 Having heard the ZST, i just find the ZS3 missing a little top end sparkle..
 though still engaging.
  
  
 ==========
  
 after 2 hours of experimenting above...
 put back the ZST...whammmmmm,
 straightaway i could hear the 3D stretchout soundscape of the first song that came on cue..
 next one..next one...next one...same capability of the ZST
 to send spatial cues  of the ambience of each particular recording
 every song..every band...every orchestra comes into your livingroom.
  
 u mussssssst get this ZST.. 12 bucks..dammmmmm. 
  
  
  
 =========
  
 impossible..KennyRogers came an sat with me..
 i dun listen to his songs.. how did he get here..in person ????


----------



## chompchomps

Thanks guys this site is never friendly to my wallet @To.M, @B9Scrambler


----------



## fallrsk

So.. Lorspeaker's been disturbing the peace in my pants with his ZST love. My question is, who's got a definitive answer on black vs colorful? I've seen people refer to it colorful as "Pro" but beyond that, nothing has been definitive from what I could find searching here.. I'm interested in getting a pair but I'd love to know which is actually better! (If there's any difference)


----------



## mochill

This zst is awesome for the price , I'll get the colorful one .


----------



## mehrdadb3

please tell me about kz zst vs tennmak pro


----------



## CoiL

tennmak pro should be probably "smoother" in highs and more prominent mids... from what I`ve read. Don`t have neither, yet.


----------



## Kerkyboi

With all the ZST impressions coming left and right, I hope I don't knock myself out waiting for my pair. 

Good thing B9Scrambler impressions tamed the ants on my pants. 


Now, to give some love back to the ZS3. Here's my impressions.

Disclaimer: _Do take note im not a pro like anybody else in here but I know a good one when I hear one so please take my word with a grain of salt._

Been listening to this pair for a few days now and all I can say is WOW! For the $6.50 I paid, this is certainly bang for the buck and without a doubt beats my old trusty daily runners (Pistons 2).

Pros:
Vocals are nice and smooth, I sometimes find it lacking for some tracks but still well within my preference.
Mids are excellent but easily gets overwhelmed by the boominess of the bass.
Bass is amazing, extends to the point where it shows you how big its soundstage is.
Soundstage is where I fell inlove with it, you can really hear the space between the instruments and makes you feel you're in a room with properly setup'ed speakers. I have not heard any in ears with this big of a soundstage at this price ever. I usually run to my m50's whenever I need music therapy but this changes everything.
Comfort is A+, when I first fitted it without the wires, it just went thru my ears like it was custom molded. I can wear this for hours without fatigue or even to sleep.

Cons:
Memory wire needs a little getting used to.
Bass can be to overwhelming and uncontrolled.
Mids gets muddy because of the bass. (Music dependent)

Overall Verdict:
Given my pros and cons, this indeed makes for fun pair of in ears to listen to for hours. The ups and downs varies on the tracks you listen to but whatever type of music I threw at it for the past days, it did not disappoint. My music preference is mostly top 40, hiphop, rnb, and mood dependent reggae, edm, acoustic covers, jazz, coffee table instrumentals. So if you're the type of guy who basically listens to all sorts of music, this an easy go to pair.


_I will gladly accept constructive critisicm for the terms I have used as I have long been absent in this hobby and this is my first ever "impressions" post for as long as I can remember._


----------



## ricemanhk

fallrsk said:


> So.. Lorspeaker's been disturbing the peace in my pants with his ZST love. My question is, who's got a definitive answer on black vs colorful? I've seen people refer to it colorful as "Pro" but beyond that, nothing has been definitive from what I could find searching here.. I'm interested in getting a pair but I'd love to know which is actually better! (If there's any difference)


 
  
 ZST came out with the black carbon fiber look version first, then came the colorfuls.  Some resellers call the colorfuls the ZST Pro, but this is wrong, there is no ZST Pro (yet).
  
 From what I gather, the first batch of black ZSTs were tuned differently, and may have been the reason for alot of the poor reviews on this thread.  Then KZ tuned the ZSTs after getting customer feedback and came out with the colorfuls.  The black ones got the same tuning, however you might still be getting some first batch ones if the reseller haven't sold out of them yet.  If you want to make sure you get the v2 ZSTs, get the colorfuls, although in a few more months I suspect all the black ones are going to be the v2 as well.  There is no difference internally for the black v2 and the colorfuls, just the color of the housing.  Price is also the same, at least on the KZ taobao store.  Resellers might have different prices between the 2 depending on stock level.
  
 ZST pro was mentioned on a picture of a box of the ZSR, but this is likely a typo.  The ZSR is the one with 10 drivers that seems to be coming out sometime in 2017.
  
 On a side note, for the ZS3 it first came out with the matte black, then came a glossy black.  Not much discussion/comparison between the 2, but many here say KZ does tune things based on customer feedback and then come out with v2s.  So I got the glossy black for my ZS3 and the colorfuls for my ZST, just to make sure I have the v2 of both.


----------



## khighly

ricemanhk said:


> ZST came out with the black carbon fiber look version first, then came the colorfuls.  Some resellers call the colorfuls the ZST Pro, but this is wrong, there is no ZST Pro (yet).
> 
> From what I gather, the first batch of black ZSTs were tuned differently, and may have been the reason for alot of the poor reviews on this thread.  Then KZ tuned the ZSTs after getting customer feedback and came out with the colorfuls.  The black ones got the same tuning, however you might still be getting some first batch ones if the reseller haven't sold out of them yet.  If you want to make sure you get the v2 ZSTs, get the colorfuls, although in a few more months I suspect all the black ones are going to be the v2 as well.  There is no difference internally for the black v2 and the colorfuls, just the color of the housing.  Price is also the same, at least on the KZ taobao store.  Resellers might have different prices between the 2 depending on stock level.
> 
> ...


 

 I asked the seller a question about my ZST Pro's and they said that the Pro's were only the colorful version. I was disappointed. Looking forward to the 5 driver ZSR's though!


----------



## MAntunes

Is there anyway to contact KZ?


----------



## ricemanhk

mantunes said:


> Is there anyway to contact KZ?


 
  
 I think they have a QQ account...you can also reach them through their tmall page.  You'll need to know Chinese though.
  
 What do you need to ask them?


----------



## fallrsk

ricemanhk said:


> On a side note, for the ZS3 it first came out with the matte black, then came a glossy black.  Not much discussion/comparison between the 2, but many here say KZ does tune things based on customer feedback and then come out with v2s.  So I got the glossy black for my ZS3 and the colorfuls for my ZST, just to make sure I have the v2 of both.


 
 Makes sense. Saw you over on the Xiaomi Gen 5 thread too.. How do you feel the ZST holds up against the Gen 5?


----------



## ricemanhk

fallrsk said:


> Makes sense. Saw you over on the Xiaomi Gen 5 thread too.. How do you feel the ZST holds up against the Gen 5?


 
  
 ZST and ZS3 ordered and are on their way, I think I should get them on Wednesday.  Will post my thoughts after I get them!


----------



## ricemanhk

sorry duplicate post


----------



## Highspeedfreak

So much appreciation for the ZST. Feels good to have them en route.
 My EDR2 got shipped yesterday and the ZS3 and ATR just got shipped. Can't wait.
 Hoping for the ZST to arrive before Christmas.


----------



## dudinacas

highspeedfreak said:


> So much appreciation for the ZST. Feels good to have them en route.
> My EDR2 got shipped yesterday and the ZS3 and ATR just got shipped. Can't wait.
> Hoping for the ZST to arrive before Christmas.


 
 Are you enjoying the EDR2?


----------



## Highspeedfreak

dudinacas said:


> Are you enjoying the EDR2?


 
 As part German in Sweden, English isn't my first language, maybe I've used the wrong term, but when I say shipped, I mean that the seller have given the item to the carrier. So they have not arrived yet. Sorry.


----------



## Highspeedfreak

Double.


----------



## dudinacas

highspeedfreak said:


> As part German in Sweden, English isn't my first language, maybe I've used the wrong term, but when I say shipped, I mean that the seller have given the item to the carrier. So they have not arrived yet. Sorry.


 

 Oh, sorry about that! No, shipped is correct, I'm just bad at reading.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

You guys are all hyped for the ZST while I'm here testing my ED9s lol
  
 Really liking my ED9.  Fits better than my ATRs for me and the bassy profile is fun.  Still super crisp and clear despite the amount of bass these IEMs have.


----------



## khighly

sometechnoob said:


> You guys are all hyped for the ZST while I'm here testing my ED9s lol
> 
> Really liking my ED9.  Fits better than my ATRs for me and the bassy profile is fun.  Still super crisp and clear despite the amount of bass these IEMs have.


 

 How are they compared to the ATR?


----------



## Lorspeaker

My zst must be v2...cos its amazing...munchmunch..tacos anyone?


----------



## DikZak

lorspeaker said:


> My zst must be v2...cos its amazing...munchmunch..tacos anyone?




Where did you order it?


----------



## basefi

how or where does the zst differ from zs3??


----------



## Lorspeaker

dikzak said:


> Where did you order it?




Gearbest


----------



## MAntunes

ricemanhk said:


> I think they have a QQ account...you can also reach them through their tmall page.  You'll need to know Chinese though.
> 
> What do you need to ask them?


 
 I don't need to ask them anything..
 But I would like to know if the ZSR are really a thing and if they are, when they come out.
 But since I don't speek chinese there is nothing to do


----------



## CoiL

lorspeaker said:


> My zst must be v2...cos its amazing...munchmunch..tacos anyone?


 
 This is unconfirmed if there is actually v2 or there was just QC issues which is quite common to KZ production. 
 Atm, all we know is that there are just black and colorful version which should sound same and have same components.
  
 Nevertheless, too much hype around ZST and little objectivity imo. Few respected reviewers already gave their impressions and they don`t seem to be "very special" and still have some "faults". Will they fit for person subjective taste is another story.


----------



## Shadowsora

Still waiting for that ZSR pro before ordering ZST, If ZST is indeed W shaped it may appeal to my taste.
 Also bluetooth full headphones? *Cautiously hyped*.


----------



## Saoshyant

Anyone here with the ED9 also using the Sendiy M2 nozzles?


----------



## KcLKcL

What's the recommended eartips for KZ ATR? KZ Startips? KZ widebore? Or anything else?


----------



## hoerlurar

kclkcl said:


> What's the recommended eartips for KZ ATR? KZ Startips? KZ widebore? Or anything else?




The starline tips are appreciated by most who have tried them on the atr from what i've read. I use some old creative zen tips, but the starline sounded good as well to me.


----------



## n0ear5

I had finally recieved my kz ate. Mine sounds funny on clip+ and i9 though. Is it normal for this item that the vocals seems like they were really far? But when attached to a pc speaker it is fine. Are there any tips and tricks to help improve its isolation? Mine doesn't isolate at all. I can hear my pc fan and everything.


----------



## ricemanhk

mantunes said:


> I don't need to ask them anything..
> But I would like to know if the ZSR are really a thing and if they are, when they come out.
> But since I don't speek chinese there is nothing to do


 
  
 Let me try and ask them on their taobao store, but I doubt they will be willing to give much info (even if they know something)


----------



## zabunny94

kclkcl said:


> What's the recommended eartips for KZ ATR? KZ Startips? KZ widebore? Or anything else?




The starline tips offer you a deeper fot because of the longer inner stem than most eartips, it's also very grippy. I think you got nothing to lose to try it except for $1 you use for buying a pack.

The whirlwind offer you a looser seal, and give you less bass than any tips ever! Which is good in it's own way. The bore size is on the wider side, it may not fit some of the KZ.

The fake sony hybrid is, well.. a sony hybrid, but fake, but still almost the same as the original. Even the softness is! The seal is good, but it comes with increased bass presence, so you wanna avoid it from muddy up a bassier cans.


----------



## Shinry

Info:
 The Colorfull ZST are on sale again at KZ Official Store and another one (not named yada yada)
 13.33$/14.66 wo/w mic
https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/119089_32760612759.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.SNW2Nh


----------



## chompchomps

order order order orderrr


----------



## SomeTechNoob

khighly said:


> How are they compared to the ATR?




Much more bass presence, especially in the sub bass regions. Mids are recessed a little bit more. Very full sounding because of the amount of bass these IEMs have. They are also built with metal for the most part and feel nicer than the ATR's build.


----------



## To.M

chompchomps said:


> order order order orderrr




Oh nooooooooo.... ! 

Bought the checkered ones, then the silver cable...and now I want the colourful ones too, hello my name is Tom and I am a KZholic!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

to.m said:


> Oh nooooooooo.... !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 KraZy for KZ.


----------



## chompchomps

to.m said:


> Oh nooooooooo.... !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 buy the purple ones before the deal runs out!


----------



## To.M

I definitely should not  

By the way, here is a coupon for Ali, 5usd off with shopping over 25usd

http://tinyurl.com/j4mjxcr


----------



## Griffith

I just finished writing what is the first of various KZ reviews that I'll be making over the coming months for none other than the KZ ATE. If you are interested on knowing a bit more about them, or getting a second impression feel free to give it a read: http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-ate-in-ear-monitors/reviews/17559


----------



## kbanner

Hello guys,
   

  I am the happy owner of Kz ed9 earphones, unfortunately I lost one of the filters (bass), and I want to buy a pair, but I can not find anything, can you help me?
  
 Sorry for my bad english, i'm french ^^  Thanks !


----------



## chickenmoon

kbanner said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=&SearchText=ed9 

Or you could try putting an adequate amount of foam in the reference filters.


----------



## kbanner

No i think you don't understand me x), I lost the Bass noozle :/. Now i use balanced noozle


----------



## SomeTechNoob

chickenmoon said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=&SearchText=ed9
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The reference filters are a different shape, though.  I wonder how that would alter sound.


----------



## kbanner

I just want buy another bass nozzle, but i didn't find it


----------



## SomeTechNoob

kbanner said:


> I just want buy another bass nozzle, but i didn't find it


 
 Don't think you can buy them separately as far as I know.


----------



## chickenmoon

kbanner said:


> No i think you don't understand me x), I lost the Bass noozle :/. Now i use balanced noozle




Well buy a new pair so you have two pairs, one with bass filters and one with reference filters. Since you won't need to swap filters anymore, no risk of them getting lost again.


----------



## kbanner

Hahaha yeah, i'm going to buy the silver Kz ed9, i have black colour x)


----------



## NoxVail

Can someone give a link to chinese headphone warm up app, please? I can't find it via search, but definitely saw it here before.


----------



## Shinry

gemmoglock said:


> Sorry the website I read had a hyperlink name that didn't match the actual link. Here it is! http://img.1more.com/2013/10/10/10/2013093013530025.apk


 
  
  


noxvail said:


> Can someone give a link to chinese headphone warm up app, please? I can't find it via search, but definitely saw it here before.


 
 This one is it


----------



## NoxVail

Thanks a lot )


----------



## khighly

coil said:


> This is unconfirmed if there is actually v2 or there was just QC issues which is quite common to KZ production.
> Atm, all we know is that there are just black and colorful version which should sound same and have same components.
> 
> Nevertheless, too much hype around ZST and little objectivity imo. Few respected reviewers already gave their impressions and they don`t seem to be "very special" and still have some "faults". Will they fit for person subjective taste is another story.


 
*You don't even have them and you're giving negative reviews about them?* That doesn't seem right. I'll take the countless numbers of excellent reports on here as evidence that the ZST's are excellent performers and it's not just me who says so.


----------



## chickenmoon

My grey ZST has annoying sibilance and yet isn't what I'd call bright which is kinda odd. This plus the fact I have a hard time fitting it properly means I'm done with it.

Of the 13 KZs I recently bought I only really like the ED9 (with reference filters). 

ED12 sounds very good on my old Sony Mp3 player but I dislike it on my higher end desktop setup.


----------



## khighly

chickenmoon said:


> My grey ZST has annoying sibilance and yet isn't what I'd call bright which is kinda odd. This plus the fact I have a hard time fitting it properly means I'm done with it.
> 
> Of the 13 KZs I recently bought I only really like the ED9 (with reference filters).
> 
> ED12 sounds very good on my old Sony Mp3 player but I dislike it on my higher end desktop setup.


 

 Odd. ED12 is what I imagine having hearing damage sounds like. Maybe you have a bad ZST and I have a bad ED12?


----------



## B9Scrambler

khighly said:


> Odd. ED12 is what I imagine having hearing damage sounds like. Maybe you have a bad ZST and I have a bad ED12?


 
  
 My ED12 sounds like the ZST with the BA removed and a lack of tuning to compensate, haha.


----------



## chickenmoon

khighly said:


> Odd. ED12 is what I imagine having hearing damage sounds like. Maybe you have a bad ZST and I have a bad ED12?




LOL, that may well be, who knows? 

Ideally, I'd love one of those DD in a ZS3 form factor without memory wires and with a reference ED9-like tuning. One can hope, right?


----------



## chickenmoon

Double post, sorry.


----------



## ayao

coil said:


> This is unconfirmed if there is actually v2 or there was just QC issues which is quite common to KZ production.
> Atm, all we know is that there are just black and colorful version which should sound same and have same components.
> 
> Nevertheless, too much hype around ZST and little objectivity imo. Few respected reviewers already gave their impressions and they don`t seem to be "very special" and still have some "faults". Will they fit for person subjective taste is another story.


 
 I agree with this. It's not 100% certain if they changed anything, or if the first batch was off, or if the early reviewers simply didn't like the sound signature. If only Horton was still around...
 Since B9Scrambler accurately described his black ZST the way I think about my colorful ZST, I personally assume that the current black and colorful versions should sound the same.
  


khighly said:


> *You don't even have them and you're giving negative reviews about them?* That doesn't seem right. I'll take the countless numbers of excellent reports on here as evidence that the ZST's are excellent performers and it's not just me who says so.


 
 I don't think CoiL was speaking bad about the ZST, and I also personally feel that the ZST is slightly overhyped right now. The faults that were mentioned aren't coming from CoiL, but from what he read in other reviews in this thread. It's also very true that whether or not the ZST is good depends on personal taste.
  
 In saying that, a "fault" for someone might be a strength for another person. B9Scrambler listed "thin mid and upper registers" as a con in his mini-review. I personally hate high-mids (a lot of J-pop songs sound too piercing to me if the high-mids are boosted), so this actually becomes an advantage for me. If the ZST had some more low-mids and slightly less treble, it would be the perfect IEM for me, but a fellow guitarist tried them on yesterday and said that he preferred less low mids and more high mids (he owns a Shure SE425), so the electric guitars would be more present in the mix.
  
 There isn't really any wrong or right, as sound signature is all preference-based. Because of this, if someone says IEM A >>> IEM B, it should always be taken with a grain of salt, as it does not apply to everyone. I genuinely prefer the ZST over the 12-BA UM Mason, but I can't just go around and say ZST > UM Mason.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ayao said:


> I agree with this. It's not 100% certain if they changed anything, or if the first batch was off, or if the early reviewers simply didn't like the sound signature. If only Horton was still around...
> 
> Since B9Scrambler accurately described his black ZST the way I think about my colorful ZST, I personally assume that the current black and colorful versions should sound the same.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice thought process. I think the ZST is very good and probably one of, if not the best KZ yet purely looking at technical ability. It's signature won't resonate with everyone which is why kicking up massive hype could lead to disappointment. It's not my favorite KZ and I can tell you that with certainty, but I respect it for what it does especially at the price it's going for. I still prefer the 2014 ANV due to it's balance which is something the ZST just doesn't have. Comfort too, but that's a very personal thing. Would I recommend the ZST? Heck yes, just not necessarily to someone that wants a warm, smooth, sound, or something more balanced. There are a number of other KZ's that better meet those criteria.


----------



## khighly

ayao said:


> I agree with this. It's not 100% certain if they changed anything, or if the first batch was off, or if the early reviewers simply didn't like the sound signature. If only Horton was still around...
> Since B9Scrambler accurately described his black ZST the way I think about my colorful ZST, I personally assume that the current black and colorful versions should sound the same.
> 
> I don't think CoiL was speaking bad about the ZST, and I also personally feel that the ZST is slightly overhyped right now. The faults that were mentioned aren't coming from CoiL, but from what he read in other reviews in this thread. It's also very true that whether or not the ZST is good depends on personal taste.
> ...




I just really think you should own the IEM before slamming it saying it's overhyped. I don't have the ZS3 or ED9 so I don't talk about them. I respect your opinion on it, sure. Coils? Not so much until they receive theirs. It should be taken with a grain of salt.


----------



## ksatayboy

Guys I've tried the zs3 and damn son it's so good. Way better than the se215 I've tried.I ended up listening to it till 3am in the night. 

But my zs 3 kinda broke after I tried to switch cables the entire red part just went into the iems. 

So I'm looking to an upgrade. Was looking at swing ec1 or a zst pro. Anyone with both able to give a comparision? 

Anyway anybody tried a dac or amp on the zst? Does it improve the SQ? I'm lookin at getting a shanling m1


----------



## Lorspeaker

xduoo x10? new dap


----------



## SabaDen

1st post on this thread ... help me out please 
  
 Thinking of ordering the ZST Colorful and Zs3 ... both going for $13++ on AE now.  Believe they have different sound sig ... I listen to everything - K-Pop, Andrea Bocelli, etc, etc ... fav with voice.
  
 Some question on cables ... 
  
 There's an upgrade silver cables which is being sold on AE ... correct me if I'm wrong and this is from what I read from the many threads in HF, characteristics of silver cables is that they will most likely increase the highs.
  
 Is it a good idea to get the cables for both KZs I'm planning to get?  If not, which is a safer bet?
  
 Thanks ...


----------



## ksatayboy

sabaden said:


> 1st post on this thread ... help me out please
> 
> Thinking of ordering the ZST Colorful and Zs3 ... both going for $13++ on AE now.  Believe they have different sound sig ... I listen to everything - K-Pop, Andrea Bocelli, etc, etc ... fav with voice.
> 
> ...





I've gotten the silver cables for my zs3. It opens up the sound stage. Tones down the bass and make it tighter. The highs are slightly higher and general clarity is improved.

If u have the budget I'll definitely ask u to get it. You'll wan to throw the old cables after u upgrade


----------



## Lorspeaker

i would get the silverplated cable for ZS3 too...dun think i need to tweak the sound of the ZST,
 (unless it is PURE SILVER)...LOL.
  
 rockets gonna be launched my direction....hide.


----------



## ksatayboy

lorspeaker said:


> xduoo x10? new dap




Have u tried it? But it's rather out of my budget if under 100 usd


----------



## ricemanhk

So I talked the KZ customer service on tmall (the official shop portal of taobao, you need proof you own the actual business, have a certain level of working capital etc. to set up on tmall).  Do take these with a few grains of salt as I doubt the customer service person knows everything (they typically help with stock checks, refunds and other issues).
  
 ZSR: I asked when these will be out, they say not so soon.  So they don't deny this doesn't exist. They also don't know whether it's 10 drivers per earbud or 5 on each side (I suspect the latter). They did say they will message me once they have more info.
  
 ZST v1 v2: they say this is false.  Yes the black ones came first, but the only difference is the color of the housing.  So the differences people have experienced could simply be QC issues with the initial batches, or just a big difference in sound preference.  Or KZ engineers did tune it but didn't broadcast this information widely.
  
 I suspect any announcement for the ZSR will likely be at least after chinese new year (late Jan 2017).
  
 BTW a side note on ED12, ZS3 and ZST silver cable upgrade.  They confirmed the pins are the same diameter, but the housing is different.  ZST and ED12 are interchangeable, and have an angled housing while ZS3 housing is straight.  I believe the ZS3 upgrade cable will be slightly loose if used on the ZST/ED12, and likewise the ZST/ED12 cables may be too big for the ZS3.  The wire itself should be the same across all 3.


----------



## Lorspeaker

the zs3 cable has angled housing if i remember correctly.


----------



## Ruben123

sabaden said:


> 1st post on this thread ... help me out please
> 
> Thinking of ordering the ZST Colorful and Zs3 ... both going for $13++ on AE now.  Believe they have different sound sig ... I listen to everything - K-Pop, Andrea Bocelli, etc, etc ... fav with voice.
> 
> ...




May I, with all honesty, advise you get, if you could, a. Monoprice 8320? I listen a lot to vocals, also Andrea, and there's imo no KZ that could match its clear and clean sound. I also find the zs3 to be too dark for male vocals. Besides, I still think the Monoprices top most (all?) KZs but that's my opinion


----------



## Lorspeaker

i have a pair somewhere i cant remember...
 i should go search..its terribly uncomfortable in my ears..
 the thin wires curled..knurled.. v neutral lean kind of sound...
 but could match a  warmish sounding fone or dap i guess.
 ..distant memory. imho.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ricemanhk Thanks for all that info! I can tell you right now that the pin diameter on my ZS3 is much thicker than on the ZST or ED12. The cables on the ED12 and ZST are interchangeable, but the ZS3 is it's own beast. I have an early-ish ZS3 (first batch after recall) so maybe they changed the connector on more recent releases.


----------



## ricemanhk

lorspeaker said:


> the zs3 cable has angled housing if i remember correctly.


 
 Nope, at least according to pictures on KZ's tmall site, both the stock and silver cables for ZS3 have a straight housing on the plug into the earbuds.
  


b9scrambler said:


> @ricemanhk Thanks for all that info! I can tell you right now that the pin diameter on my ZS3 is much thicker than on the ZST or ED12. The cables on the ED12 and ZST are interchangeable, but the ZS3 is it's own beast. I have an early-ish ZS3 (first batch after recall) so maybe they changed the connector on more recent releases.


 
  
 Anyway I should be receiving my glossy ZS3 and colorful ZSTs tomorrow so we'll know for sure then!  Can't wait...hope they live up to the hype (that I've given myself...haha)


----------



## B9Scrambler

When its not 2AM and I should be asleep, I'll post pics showing the differences between my ZST/ED12 and ZS3 cables.


----------



## Wokei

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> i would get the silverplated cable for ZS3 too...dun think i need to tweak the sound of the ZST,
> (unless it is PURE SILVER)...LOL.
> 
> rockets gonna be launched my direction....hide.


----------



## Vidal

b9scrambler said:


> When its not 2AM and I should be asleep, I'll post pics showing the differences between my ZST/ED12 and ZS3 cables.


 
  
 I got the silver plated ZS3 cable, it fits into the ZST but doesn't go in far enough to hold in place, it comes away from the body far too easily.


----------



## Lorspeaker

lorspeaker said:


> the zs3 cable has angled housing if i remember correctly.


 
  
  

  
 the cable housing that plugs into the earpc on my ZS3... has that uneven indentation.


----------



## SabaDen

ksatayboy said:


> I've gotten the silver cables for my zs3. It opens up the sound stage. Tones down the bass and make it tighter. The highs are slightly higher and general clarity is improved.
> 
> If u have the budget I'll definitely ask u to get it. You'll wan to throw the old cables after u upgrade


 
 Exactly as what I suspected the cable will do ... will get the cable to test out further.
  
 Thank you so much for confirming that ... AND help me press the buy button 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  


lorspeaker said:


> i would get the silverplated cable for ZS3 too...dun think i need to tweak the sound of the ZST,
> (unless it is PURE SILVER)...LOL.
> 
> rockets gonna be launched my direction....hide.


 
 Haha!!!  Thanks for your reply ... 
  
  


ruben123 said:


> May I, with all honesty, advise you get, if you could, a. Monoprice 8320? I listen a lot to vocals, also Andrea, and there's imo no KZ that could match its clear and clean sound. I also find the zs3 to be too dark for male vocals. Besides, I still think the Monoprices top most (all?) KZs but that's my opinion


 
 Thanks Ruben ... will definitely look into the Monoprice.  I just gotten the HD598 Cs yesterday ... just need something that I can grab on the go and not for too much of a serious listening in.
  
 Either way, I'll check it out AND I'm still getting the KZs ... for the price, it's a no risks jumping in.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ruben123 said:


> May I, with all honesty, advise you get, if you could, a. Monoprice 8320? I listen a lot to vocals, also Andrea, and there's imo no KZ that could match its clear and clean sound. I also find the zs3 to be too dark for male vocals. Besides, I still think the Monoprices top most (all?) KZs but that's my opinion


 
  


sabaden said:


> Thanks Ruben ... will definitely look into the Monoprice.  I just gotten the HD598 Cs yesterday ... just need something that I can grab on the go and not for too much of a serious listening in.
> 
> Either way, I'll check it out AND I'm still getting the KZs ... for the price, it's a no risks jumping in.


 
  
 The Monoprice are definitely worthy of a buy. Watch out for the versions with the fabric cable though. Worst cable on the face of the planet, haha.


----------



## gobin

Quote 





b9scrambler said:


> The Monoprice are definitely worthy of a buy. Watch out for the versions with the fabric cable though. Worst cable on the face of the planet, haha.


 
 I thought the Monoprice 8320 (now 9927 on their official website) only come with fabric cable. Is there another variant of its that I'm not aware of?


----------



## CoiL

n0ear5 said:


> Is it normal for this item that the vocals seems like they were really far?


 
 It is called *soundstage *and ATE is very good in large soundstage (distant out of the headstage imaging).
  
 Quote:


griffith said:


> I just finished writing what is the first of various KZ reviews that I'll be making over the coming months for none other than the KZ ATE. If you are interested on knowing a bit more about them, or getting a second impression feel free to give it a read: http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-ate-in-ear-monitors/reviews/17559


 


 Great review! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


khighly said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > This is unconfirmed if there is actually v2 or there was just QC issues which is quite common to KZ production.
> ...


 
 I don`t have them YET ( they are on the way) and I haven`t given negative reviews, just thinking clear and objective based on what You and others can read about them.
 Don`t start flaming and accusing please and don`t take it only from You subjective perspective.
  
 Quote:


ayao said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > This is unconfirmed if there is actually v2 or there was just QC issues which is quite common to KZ production.
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## B9Scrambler

gobin said:


> I thought the Monoprice 8320 (now 9927 on their official website) only come with fabric cable. Is there another variant of its that I'm not aware of?


 
  
 I used to come in white with a more standard rubber cable. Maybe they discontinued that version as I don't see it on the site.


----------



## SabaDen

Phew!!!   Just made it for the time sale ... $13 each for the ZST & Zs3.  Price back to $21 & $20 respectively ...


----------



## Wokei

Monoprice !


----------



## ksatayboy

sabaden said:


> Phew!!!   Just made it for the time sale ... $13 each for the ZST & Zs3.  Price back to $21 & $20 respectively ...




I think I missed it ohno


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ksatayboy said:


> I think I missed it ohno


 
 Was here: 
  


shinry said:


> Info:
> The Colorfull ZST are on sale again at KZ Official Store and another one (not named yada yada)
> 13.33$/14.66 wo/w mic
> https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-ZST-BA-DD-In-Ear-Earphone-Hybrid-Headset-HIFI-Bass-Noise-Cancelling-Earbuds-With/119089_32760612759.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.SNW2Nh


----------



## Shinry

ksatayboy said:


> I think I missed it ohno


 
 They did 3 such Sales since 11.11 so just be patient for the next one. I'll continue having a look out. Will try to remember to tag you next time.


----------



## basefi

which has the best overall sound quality on KZ's the ATR, ZS3 or colorful ZST??


----------



## Ruben123

wokei said:


> Monoprice !




Share the love <3 some of the greatest budget earphones


----------



## killerbond

Already ordered the ATR (with Mic) from GearBest but still looking for another headset model. My taste of music is ... unsettled  from modern pop, ballad to EDM, rock (NOT metal). 
  
 I'm considering among the ZS3, ZST and Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD (2016). 
  
 P/S: I found this ZST at a really reasonable price: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZST-Earphone-Balanced-Armature-With-Dynamic-Earphone-hybrid-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic/32759964812.html
  
 [Mod edit: removed URL tags]


----------



## DikZak

ksatayboy said:


> I think I missed it ohno


 
 https://de.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZST-Earphone-Balanced-Armature-With-Dynamic-Earphone-hybrid-Driver-Noise-Cancelling-Headset-With-Mic/32759964812.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=63705
  
 Still cheap + 1$ off store coupon


----------



## hoerlurar

sabaden said:


> Phew!!!   Just made it for the time sale ... $13 each for the ZST & Zs3.  Price back to $21 & $20 respectively ...



I paid around $8.50 and $11.50 for my zs3 and black zst, both with mic from gearbest
http://www.gearbest.com/kz-_gear/


----------



## SabaDen

Cool price but I'm not too familiar with GB ... are they based in China as well?


----------



## Thomas De Brito

sabaden said:


> Cool price but I'm not too familiar with GB ... are they based in China as well?


yes they are, they have pretty good prices compare to others Chinese resellers


----------



## SabaDen

Thanks!!!  I'll give them a try next time ...


----------



## DikZak

thomas de brito said:


> yes they are, they have pretty good prices compare to others Chinese resellers




But their shipping is quite slow. Prices are good nonetheless. Ordered there multiple times and no issues so far, apart from longer shipping times than most other resellers


----------



## ayao

dikzak said:


> But their shipping is quite slow. Prices are good nonetheless. Ordered there multiple times and no issues so far, apart from longer shipping times than most other resellers


 
 Longer shipping times indeed. My ATR was shipped on the 9th of November, and is still nowhere to be seen xD


----------



## DikZak

ayao said:


> Longer shipping times indeed. My ATR was shipped on the 9th of November, and is still nowhere to be seen xD




Same here, waiting eagerly.


----------



## Griffith

Would anyone be able to point me to a tutorial on how to solder a connector to an earphone that has none?
  
 I've decided I like the ATE enough to do it, I want to keep them around beyond their cord's life.


----------



## Highspeedfreak

Quote:


griffith said:


> Would anyone be able to point me to a tutorial on how to solder a connector to an earphone that has none?
> 
> I've decided I like the ATE enough to do it, I want to keep them around beyond their cord's life.


 Isn't a new pair of ATE's cheaper and easier?
  
 But if you are set to do it, just buy a connector and start soldering.


 Here are two pics from when I mended a pair of Koss Porta Pro's for a friend.


----------



## CoiL

Just do it! 
  
 Quote:


>


 


>


 


>


 
 For ATR/ATE using MMCX connector is easiest and cheap. But I recommend to get angled MMCX ends cable for ATE/ATR housing fit and cable max 0.8 Ohm or lower is recommended.


----------



## SabaDen

~Delete ... Duplicate entry~


----------



## SabaDen

ayao said:


> Longer shipping times indeed. My ATR was shipped on the 9th of November, and is still nowhere to be seen xD


 
 Woah!!!  That's a loooong time to take ...
  
 Usually I ordered my stuff from AE and most of the time, it'll take 9-14days or so to reah me....record time 4 days and that's on free shipping.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, my Colorful ZST has arrived, and on initial impressions one thing is clear.  A cheap hybrid can actually be enjoyable.  So for the 4 hybrids I've owned so far, the most and least expensive are the two I've liked.  I'd certainly pick this over my Astrotec AX35, just found it horribly boring.
  
 ...nevermind, make that 5 hybrids, I totally forgot about the TK11.  I like that one too.


----------



## hoerlurar

isn't the trick to buy from the cheapest seller that's enough reliable, and with the money saved buy more stuff, and always have something on the way?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 my aliexpress order from 11.11 containing the urbanfun hybrid, **** 4in1 and some misc stuff supposedly left for sweden 2 weeks ago according to the tracking info from 17track.net, but doesn't seem to have arrived in sweden according to local postal service.
  
 So i might hope that my gearbest order from last week with KZ ZST and remax s1 will arrive early next year (if i receive the 11.11 order before christmas) then, so i get some time playing with my first order
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 in some ways the chi-fi thing is about value, and i'm not too concerned about waiting a month for delivery with the prices we pay. But after 6 weeks i usually get a bit annoyed by the delivery time...


----------



## Highspeedfreak

I totally agree, hoerlurar. I'm new to the ciem game, but I have been addicted to AE and Ebay for a long time... 

My colourful ZST are in the air according to the tracking. Yay!


----------



## trumpethead

dikzak said:


> Same here, waiting eagerly.



Can always opt for the express shipping, in most cases it is a nominal fee and does make the shipping times faster/bearable...


----------



## dudinacas

sabaden said:


> Woah!!!  That's a loooong time to take ...
> 
> Usually I ordered my stuff from AE and most of the time, it'll take 9-14days or so to reah me....record time 4 days and that's on free shipping.


 

 4 days! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most of my stuff takes 14 days from Aliexpress, my record is 7 days though.


----------



## loomisjohnson

i've seen a number of initially hyped iems get critically downgraded after release (the shozy zero come to mind) but until the kzt i haven't seen an iem which was widely dissed on release garner so much subsequent praise. ergo, i succumbed to curiosity and sprang for the $11 to get my own. again, i'm not sure if there's some cult behavior going on, but the kzt now seems to be the most venerated kz ever.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> i've seen a number of initially hyped iems get critically downgraded after release (the shozy zero come to mind) but until the kzt i haven't seen an iem which was widely dissed on release garner so much subsequent praise. ergo, i succumbed to curiosity and sprang for the $11 to get my own. again, i'm not sure if there's some cult behavior going on, but the kzt now seems to be the most venerated kz ever.


 
  
 That is quite the thing isn't it? I like the ZST and think they're really good, but worthy of "OMG THE BEST THING EVA BUY BUY BUY!!"? No. You go in with that mindset you're going to be disappointed. *shrug*


----------



## Joong

Is there some difference zst and zst pro with regard to sound quality?


----------



## dudinacas

joong said:


> Is there some difference zst and zst pro with regard to sound quality?


 
 Nope.


----------



## Drachen1

Hey just pulled the trigger on the ZS3 and the ZST in the sale.
 I read a lot of pages here but I didn't find anything on how they compare with my current main IEMs, the Shure SE215?
  
 I read that the zst don´t change much after 100hrs break in, is there something happening after more time?


----------



## ayao

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Quote:


dudinacas said:


> 4 days!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My record from AliExpress is 10 days (to Australia), and that was from the recent 11.11 sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Quote:


drachen1 said:


> Hey just pulled the trigger on the ZS3 and the ZST in the sale.
> I read a lot of pages here but I didn't find anything on how they compare with my current main IEMs, the Shure SE215?
> 
> I read that the zst don´t change much after 100hrs break in, is there something happening after more time?



  


 Can't say for the ZS3 since I don't have one, but the SE215 is very different to the ZST. The SE215 (I listened to the light blue version, if it's any different), is much warmer sounding (due to a convex curve in the mid-bass to low-mid region). The ZST has a concave dip in that region, but whether you want to call the SE215 muddy, or the ZST too thin is up to you. The dip in the midbass does give the ZST's sub-bass a tighter feel imo
  
 The SE215 also has a little bump in the high mids, while the ZST has quite a dip there. I would personally put the SE215 in the "warm and smooth" category, and the ZST in the "fun and W-shaped" category.
  
 Break-in is up for you to decide. I didn't "break-in" my ZST, but I did blast pink noise through my XE800 at 4x my acceptable listening volume for 77 hours (with around five 1min gaps), and the measurements (Vibro Veritas -> ARTA) were still identical.


----------



## To.M

b9scrambler said:


> That is quite the thing isn't it? I like the ZST and think they're really good, but worthy of "OMG THE BEST THING EVA BUY BUY BUY!!"? No. You go in with that mindset you're going to be disappointed. *shrug*




Well, the best not, but what else can you get for less than 12usd (at GB) with a better SQ?


----------



## ayao

to.m said:


> Well, the best not, but what else can you get for less than 11usd (at GB) with a better SQ?


 
 Not best, but different. A basshead may prefer the ZS1, a neutralhead may prefer the ED9, and I think the Superlux HD381F is way more balanced than the ZST. I really like the ZST for what it is (fun but not V-shaped imo), so it's definitely a keeper.


----------



## B9Scrambler

to.m said:


> Well, the best not, but what else can you get for less than 12usd (at GB) with a better SQ?


 
  
@ayao Kinda nailed it. Preferences play a big part. My original ZS1 (not the current version) puts a much larger smile on my face than the ZST. The EDR2 is technically close, but way more balanced. I can't think of anything with better sq off-hand, but I can think of a number of others that I would rather listen to.


----------



## Griffith

coil said:


> For ATR/ATE using MMCX connector is easiest and cheap. But I recommend to get angled MMCX ends cable for ATE/ATR housing fit and cable max 0.8 Ohm or lower is recommended.


 
  
 Thanks for those pics. can I use the cable that's already inside the shell for the soldering? What do I solder where? I don't know what parts of the connector should connect to the driver.


----------



## ksatayboy

I just got my atr n zs3 from gearbest! Paid for slightly more expensive shipping tho. $1.50 more for 7-15 days shipping #totallyworthit

Are ATR good? I bought it cuz it was $5 on sale! I heard it has a balance signature which I adore compared to the Base heavy nature of zs3.


----------



## killerbond

ksatayboy said:


> I just got my atr n zs3 from gearbest! Paid for slightly more expensive shipping tho. $1.50 more for 7-15 days shipping #totallyworthit
> 
> Are ATR good? I bought it cuz it was $5 on sale! I heard it has a balance signature which I adore compared to the Base heavy nature of zs3.


 
 Nice! I've ordered from GearBest too. Hope I won't be disappointed with the oh-my-god-it's-cheap-ATR


----------



## shin0

Hi everyone, I'm looking to try something different - I currently own Rock Zircons but have been looking into the ATE-S and ZS2 for the sake of trying something new. Which of these have similar/comparable bass to the Zircons?


----------



## basefi

@shin0 how's the bass of the rock zircons?? i'm planning to get one, currently own zs3's which is bass heavy but sometimes too much bass


----------



## SabaDen

dudinacas said:


> 4 days!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup, 4days from date I received email saying that the goods is shipped.  BTW, it's for non-audio related stuff ... if it makes a diff.
  
 I ordered my ZST colorful and Zs3 yesterday and this morning I got an email saying that 'Your Order Has Been Shipped' ... let's see how long it takes


----------



## Lorspeaker

depending on the kind of music that u listen to...
 some may like the red-core tips from ZS3 on the ZST..
 it tightens the sound a notch (less dispersed)
  
 helped when i was listening to some big pipe organ music..


----------



## crabdog

basefi said:


> @shin0 how's the bass of the rock zircons?? i'm planning to get one, currently own zs3's which is bass heavy but sometimes too much bass


 
 Bass on the Zircons is MONSTROUS. I don't have ZS3 to compare though.


----------



## crabdog

ksatayboy said:


> I just got my atr n zs3 from gearbest! Paid for slightly more expensive shipping tho. $1.50 more for 7-15 days shipping #totallyworthit
> 
> Are ATR good? I bought it cuz it was $5 on sale! I heard it has a balance signature which I adore compared to the Base heavy nature of zs3.


 
 I'm amazed at the quality of my ATR. I bought 3 intended as gifts for my nephews. Opened one up and knew I had to keep it right away. Since then my wife has "claimed" it and another one was gifted to her friend. Looks like I'll need to order 5 more.


----------



## chinmie

ksatayboy said:


> Are ATR good? I bought it cuz it was $5 on sale! I heard it has a balance signature which I adore compared to the Base heavy nature of zs3.




i myself is new to this KZ stuff, and only owned ATR and listened to my friend's ZS3. I like the ATR balanced sound enough that i use it for mixing. the soundstage is not so much surrounds your head like the ZS3, but more like sitting in front of reference studio monitor

so to me the ZS3 is fun sounding, while the ATR is more balanced


----------



## CoiL

griffith said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > For ATR/ATE using MMCX connector is easiest and cheap. But I recommend to get angled MMCX ends cable for ATE/ATR housing fit and cable max 0.8 Ohm or lower is recommended.
> ...


 
 There are no wires inside housing, only headphone cable itself. You need only little pieces for connecting MMCX female socket to driver. 
 MMCX outer ring is negative/ground, inner thin hole is positive/signal. When You start desoldering original cable from driver, just remember which one is colorful (signal) and which one is "copper" or striped (ground).


----------



## Keller1

coil said:


> There are no wires inside housing, only headphone cable itself. You need only little pieces for connecting MMCX female socket to driver.
> MMCX outer ring is negative/ground, inner thin hole is positive/signal. When You start desoldering original cable from driver, just remember which one is colorful (signal) and which one is "copper" or striped (ground).


 
 Is there a guide to this procedure somewhere?
 I cant figure out what MMCX sockets to get


----------



## Kerkyboi

I kinda feel stupid wearing my ZS3's while walking around. Out of nowhere I'd suddenly pick up my air guitar or drum around in the air. If not bobbing my head to the music. 




dudinacas said:


> 4 days! :eek: Most of my stuff takes 14 days from Aliexpress, my record is 7 days though.


well that was fast. Fastest I got my stuff from ali is 10days. from date I placed the order til it got to my doorstep.



ruben123 said:


> May I, with all honesty, advise you get, if you could, a. Monoprice 8320? I listen a lot to vocals, also Andrea, and there's imo no KZ that could match its clear and clean sound. *I also find the zs3 to be too dark for male vocals.* Besides, I still think the Monoprices top most (all?) KZs but that's my opinion


 I will have to agree with you on this one. But the female vocals are sweet though.


----------



## trumpethead

The ZST continue to amaze me. With the upgraded cable, proper tips, and some burn in these have rocketed to my favorite KZ IEM, and that's saying a lot cuz I really love ATE, ATR, and Ed9. These are special. The bass digs deep but is quality and quantity with no bleed over to the mid and highs. Vocals are crystal clear and mids are just about perfect for me. This was NOT the case with the original cable..Soundstage and details make me feel like I'm listening to a $200+ pair of earphones. The comfort and isolation is just a bonus! Just ordered another black pair from GB and the color version from Ali! Tuning on these is Extraordinary. Can't wait for the 5/10? Driver.....of course this is all IMO.


----------



## rikk009

trumpethead said:


> The ZST continue to amaze me. With the upgraded cable, proper tips, and some burn in these have rocketed to my favorite KZ IEM, and that's saying a lot cuz I really love ATE, ATR, and Ed9. These are special. The bass digs deep but is quality and quantity with no bleed over to the mid and highs. Vocals are crystal clear and mids are just about perfect for me. This was NOT the case with the original cable..Soundstage and details make me feel like I'm listening to a $200+ pair of earphones. The comfort and isolation is just a bonus! Just ordered another black pair from GB and the color version from Ali! Tuning on these is Extraordinary. Can't wait for the 5/10? Driver.....of course this is all IMO.


 
 By upgraded cables you mean the KZ silver cables? and KZ tips?


----------



## Joong

KZ zst with mic is inferior to ones without mic with respect to sound quality?


----------



## Ruben123

Don't think so, why?


----------



## devleon

So I got to have the colorful ZSTs for a bit more than a week now. 

I absolutely love the soundstage they produce. It sounds like I'm wearing a pair of open can headphones (like the DT 990 Pro), but at the same time they let in a lot of outside noise. Like, I can hear when I snap my fingers (I couldn't hear that with the SE215 or ZS3), I even tried foam tips and it doesnt help either. I guess this is how it is? Or should they isolate more? 

Secondly, I love bassy music, and I feel without an EQ the ZST have barely any punch. But they do react well to my EQ, which gives them lots of punch. Again, is this normal? Might just be my phone (Note 4) which doesn't have a good amp. 

Just my thoughts so far..

Edit: I have to say, I was wrong with them not being bassy without an EQ. Really, really depends on the song.


----------



## chinmie

is it really night and day difference in sound quality between the original vs the silver cables for the ZST?


----------



## Joong

ruben123 said:


> Don't think so, why?


 
 Maybe extra wires for supporting mic can act as antenna that can pick up the external electrical noise, which in turn inject the noise into the sound signal.
 If it is not different in practical use, then it will be great.


----------



## zabunny94

chinmie said:


> is it really night and day difference in sound quality between the original vs the silver cables for the ZST?




Wrong question. What you should have ask is "is there's any differences in sounds at all when using different cable materials?" 

Also if you really want to change the sound, get a different eartips instead, the fitment and bore size can directly affect the accoustic chamber between the driver and your ear. And lastly equalizer is a tool made by gods for us mortal that has been shunned by the devil worshipper, use it well.



joong said:


> KZ zst with mic is inferior to ones without mic with respect to sound quality?




If it's using the same driver, same housing shape and same eartips, i don't think that it would have any differences. But i would rather get the non mic version for anything though. Because mic is just another part that can/will break and ruin your earphones(looking at you Rock Zircon  )


----------



## Joong

Clever answer


----------



## chinmie

zabunny94 said:


> Wrong question. What you should have ask is "is there's any differences in sounds at all when using different cable materials?"




i'm sorry, let me ask again, is different cable materials significantly change the sound? 
because most of the review on this thread said the zst is great, but only with the cable upgraded


----------



## Trapok

kbanner said:


> I just want buy another bass nozzle, but i didn't find it


 
  
 J'ai un KZ ED9 qui a le cable cassé, tu le veux?


----------



## Thomas De Brito

On parle français maintenant ici


----------



## Griffith

chinmie said:


> i'm sorry, let me ask again, is different cable materials significantly change the sound?
> because most of the review on this thread said the zst is great, but only with the cable upgraded


 
  
 Most people who have tried said that the cable significantly improves the sound quality on the ZST. The ZS3 silver cable, despite being similar looking and seemingly made from the same materials does not bring any major improvements in terms of sound quality.


----------



## trumpethead

rikk009 said:


> By upgraded cables you mean the KZ silver cables? and KZ tips?



The cables yes, but the tips that I use for most of my IEM are The Itis Large tips that I get from Amazon..They are a tad larger than most and give me the best deal and fit.


----------



## trumpethead

khighly said:


> Cables don't change the sound, especially when they're unshielded like the ones on the ZST. It's simply a placebo effect that's been well studied and peer reviewed. The only reason you need better cables (other than for durability) is if you live near radio towers, or have an extremely long run of cable in which the cable could potentially become an antenna. The silver ZST cable makes no change in the sound quality.



In my opinion it does...ymmv


----------



## chinmie

trumpethead said:


> In my opinion it does...ymmv




on my guitar setup, different cables with different impedance indeed changes the sound, being the high frequency/treble which is mostly affected.. although i can only tell the difference by a/b testing it in a really quiet environment...meaning the difference is there, but it's a small difference. 

on my studio monitor, or keyboard, which is a a balanced equipment, i could not see any difference between different cables besides durability. 

i am intrigued about earphone cables, especially because like some cases it is a major change in sound (zst) but minor in other cases (like the zs3). could anyone please inform me in a more technical way?


----------



## trumpethead

chinmie said:


> on my guitar setup, different cables with different impedance indeed changes the sound, being the high frequency/treble which is mostly affected.. although i can only tell the difference by a/b testing it in a really quiet environment...meaning the difference is there, but it's a small difference.
> 
> on my studio monitor, or keyboard, which is a a balanced equipment, i could not see any difference between different cables besides durability.
> 
> i am intrigued about earphone cables, especially because like some cases it is a major change in sound (zst) but minor in other cases (like the zs3). could anyone please inform me in a more technical way?



I am a musician also but I'm not very versed in cable impedance and such matters, I just know what my ears hear. Maybe it was not just the upgrade wire but there is a definite sound quality difference from when I was using the original wires, not extreme but discernable. Cleaner, more detailed, more air, Veil has lifted..As I said this is what my ears hear...ymmv...I can't say that this will happen with everyone, and noone else can say that it won't...


----------



## ricemanhk

On the cable topic.  Someone here did measure the impedance of the stock vs silver cable.  It's not that the silver cable is anything special (compared to other normal cables) but that his stock cable of the ZST had a relatively high resistance (IIRC it was like 2-3 ohms for the stock vs 0.5 for the silver plated).  
  
 I also don't really buy into the upgraded cables difference (I've done a fair bit of A-B testing myself).  But that is assuming the basic cable is "good enough".  If for some reason the stock cable has such a high resistance, there might indeed be differences.
  
 My ZS3 and ZST should be coming today, I'll check it with both my ears and my voltmeter tonight or tomorrow...


----------



## trumpethead

ricemanhk said:


> On the cable topic.  Someone here did measure the impedance of the stock vs silver cable.  It's not that the silver cable is anything special (compared to other normal cables) but that his stock cable of the ZST had a relatively high resistance (IIRC it was like 2-3 ohms for the stock vs 0.5 for the silver plated).
> 
> I also don't really buy into the upgraded cables difference (I've done a fair bit of A-B testing myself).  But that is assuming the basic cable is "good enough".  If for some reason the stock cable has such a high resistance, there might indeed be differences.
> 
> My ZS3 and ZST should be coming today, I'll check it with both my ears and my voltmeter tonight or tomorrow...



What you said makes sense. That could account for the sound quality difference.


----------



## ayao

chinmie said:


> on my guitar setup, different cables with different impedance indeed changes the sound, being the high frequency/treble which is mostly affected.. although i can only tell the difference by a/b testing it in a really quiet environment...meaning the difference is there, but it's a small difference.
> 
> on my studio monitor, or keyboard, which is a a balanced equipment, i could not see any difference between different cables besides durability.
> 
> i am intrigued about earphone cables, especially because like some cases it is a major change in sound (zst) but minor in other cases (like the zs3). could anyone please inform me in a more technical way?


 
 You've got me interested as well. I run my electric guitar through 6-7 pedals, and when I swapped ALL my $2 generic/colorful patch cables to Planet Waves cables, the difference was rather big imo.
  
 I never really focused on IEM cables in the past, but I do have a few standard 2-pin cables (Linum BaX, Noble, EarWerkz, Westone, 64Audio w/mic). Perhaps I can run them through ARTA with the same IEM and see if there's any measurable difference. This won't apply to the KZ cables though; apologies for going off-topic.
  
 In regards to my ATR order, Gearbest support replied saying that the order was shipped on 09-Nov-16, so the delivery deadline will expire on 09-Jan-17. Hopefully they will arrive soon!


----------



## bhazard

Forget spending more on specialized cables for these kz. Much like those guitar pedals... focus on getting the better pedals/amp/source before spending money on cables.
  
 IF KZ makes the rumored ZST Pro with an MMCX or 2 pin connector, then yes go for a better cable you can use on many different iems.


----------



## chinmie

ricemanhk said:


> On the cable topic.  Someone here did measure the impedance of the stock vs silver cable.  It's not that the silver cable is anything special (compared to other normal cables) but that his stock cable of the ZST had a relatively high resistance (IIRC it was like 2-3 ohms for the stock vs 0.5 for the silver plated).
> 
> I also don't really buy into the upgraded cables difference (I've done a fair bit of A-B testing myself).  But that is assuming the basic cable is "good enough".  If for some reason the stock cable has such a high resistance, there might indeed be differences.
> 
> My ZS3 and ZST should be coming today, I'll check it with both my ears and my voltmeter tonight or tomorrow...




that makes a lot of sense if it really is because of impedance differences. can't wait for your further discovery


----------



## bhazard

chinmie said:


> that makes a lot of sense if it really is because of impedance differences. can't wait for your further discovery


 
 It is. I use a 75ohm adapter to modify sound sometimes. If two cables have vastly different impedances, it "could" affect the sound.
  
 You could try these to see for yourself. The effect is there, but it isn't a huge change.
  
 http://penonaudio.com/3.5mm-Male-to-3.5mm-Female-Impedance-Adapter


----------



## chinmie

ayao said:


> You've got me interested as well. I run my electric guitar through 6-7 pedals, and when I swapped ALL my $2 generic/colorful patch cables to Planet Waves cables, the difference was rather big imo.




as long as you are using buffered bypass pedals or your first pedal is on, then it doesn't matter about the patch cables, at least to my ears. i do however use a low impedance cable from the guitar to my first pedal in the chain. that is the only difference that i can hear


----------



## ricemanhk

Just like a supply chain bottleneck, once you fix the main bottleneck, the 2nd bottleneck will appear elsewhere.
  
 With audio chain, you generally try to improve the driver unit and dac/amp source which will have a bigger impact on the perceived quality than the wires, as normally most wires are pretty good.
 However, if the wires itself are pretty bad, then it may make sense to improve the wires as well.  
  
 If you have really long distances like in a concert hall, then wires will have a bigger impact (have you seen those speaker cables?  HUGE).  It's all relatively to the whole audio chain, where the bottleneck (in sound quality) is and how much it would take to upgrade.
  
 Hence the never ending quest for audiophiles hehe....since there will ALWAYS be a bottleneck.


----------



## zabunny94

khighly said:


> Cables don't change the sound, especially when they're unshielded like the ones on the ZST. It's simply a placebo effect that's been well studied and peer reviewed. The only reason you need better cables (other than for durability) is if you live near radio towers, or have an extremely long run of cable in which the cable could potentially become an antenna. The silver ZST cable makes no change in the sound quality.




Now i like you



bhazard said:


> IF KZ makes the rumored ZST Pro with an MMCX or 2 pin connector, then yes go for a better cable you can use on many different iems.




If they really going to make it, i really hope KZ put a good battery on it. i can't really stand those cheap Bluetooth iem with only 2 hour of battery life anymore


----------



## Lorspeaker

cables make a diff to my ears.. being a night creature. 
  
 but i spent my $$ on a Xduoo X10 dap,
 and the ZSTstock...sang like a bird with newlungs.


----------



## ksatayboy

How to get it to 115usd? Mine is 135 after discounts!


----------



## Lorspeaker

sigh...beats me...i got mine at the price u are seeing now too..rats rats rats !!!
 maybe someone can help...


----------



## ricemanhk

My ZS3 and ZST have finally arrived!  Super quick listen, will post more thoughts later.  Initial impressions ZS3 more bass and rounder/warmer sound, ZST less bass but much clearer mids/highs.  Will do A-B testing over the weekend and report back, and also the impedance of the wire for stock and silver upgrade.
  
 Sad side note: KZ QC not great.  The wire plug on my right ZS3 is very loose, loose enough that it's unusable as a slight tug will separate them.  The silver upgrade cables fare slightly better, the left earbud plug is still tighter than the right hand side one (so it's not just an issue with the wire housing), but at least it's usable. 
  
 I think some people asked before, but my ZST box was cellophane wrapped but not the ZS3.  Stuff inside looked new though, i.e. no fingerprints on the housing, everything was wrapped properly etc.  So it's probably not BG/GB/AE opening them to check (I doubt they would go to the trouble) but that they are leaving KZ factory like this already.
  
 And weird, the ZS3 has the medium silicone tip with the red bore on the earbud, but the large and small ones in the box are all black?  ZST has full starline tips.


----------



## rikk009

ksatayboy said:


> How to get it to 115usd? Mine is 135 after discounts!


 
 The price has increased now


----------



## khighly

ricemanhk said:


> My ZS3 and ZST have finally arrived!  Super quick listen, will post more thoughts later.  Initial impressions ZS3 more bass and rounder/warmer sound, ZST less bass but much clearer mids/highs.  Will do A-B testing over the weekend and report back, and also the impedance of the wire for stock and silver upgrade.
> 
> Sad side note: KZ QC not great.  The wire plug on my right ZS3 is very loose, loose enough that it's unusable as a slight tug will separate them.  The silver upgrade cables fare slightly better, the left earbud plug is still tighter than the right hand side one (so it's not just an issue with the wire housing), but at least it's usable.
> 
> ...


 

 You need to push the cables in with a little force. They seat very tight and firm.


----------



## Kerkyboi

ricemanhk said:


> My ZS3 and ZST have finally arrived!  Super quick listen, will post more thoughts later.  Initial impressions ZS3 more bass and rounder/warmer sound, ZST less bass but much clearer mids/highs.  Will do A-B testing over the weekend and report back, and also the impedance of the wire for stock and silver upgrade.
> 
> Sad side note: KZ QC not great.  The wire plug on my right ZS3 is very loose, loose enough that it's unusable as a slight tug will separate them.  The silver upgrade cables fare slightly better, the left earbud plug is still tighter than the right hand side one (so it's not just an issue with the wire housing), but at least it's usable.
> 
> ...



My ZS3 came cellophane wrapped with a barcode sticker at the back. And yes, only the medium tips have red bore. 

Also, make sure you insert the cable properly, you might have interchanged it. It should sit like this.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Mine cellofaned too...
Ya dun get the angled housing insertion wrong..
Put on yur readingglasses..
Borrow one if u must


----------



## ricemanhk

I've inserted it correctly and all the way in as in the pictures, it's loose for sure.  For both the stock and silver cable, there's even a cutout on the wire housing to show how far you need to insert them into the earbud, so I'm sure I have them correct.  Anyway it's fine, the silver cables work well so I'm not gonna go through the hassle to return them.  Plus I'm edging towards the ZST in terms of my preferred sound...
  
 I checked the impedance, the silver cables for both ZS3 and ZST are both around 1.2ohms, the stock cables are around 1.5-1.6 ohms.  Given the short length of the wires, I do not think the difference should matter significantly, but I'll do more testing by ear over the weekend.  Perhaps the ZST stock cable has been fixed compared to earlier batches...or it was a QC issue.


----------



## VShaft

Got the *ATR* from GB today (ordered on Nov 26).
  
 They are a gift, so I tried them only briefly. I only have the *ATE-S* with 'starline' tips to compare them with, and to my ears they sound almost identical. Even tried using an audio splitter and playing the ATE-S on one ear and the ATR on the other. If I were hard-pressed, I could say there are some minor differences in sound, but that could just be a placebo effect of knowing of having two different IEMs in my ears at the same time. With a blind test, I doubt I could tell their sound signatures apart.
  
 That said, I like my ATE-S, so I liked the ATR, too. The ATR don't have the memory wire, and are a tad comfier to wear.
  
 I've also gotten my first 'starline' tips yesterday. Been using the default 'foam' ones which came with the ATE-S since I could get a good seal with them. Again, haven't found that much difference between the 'foams' and the 'starline', only that the latter sit again somewhat better in my ear...


----------



## xcd125

kerkyboi said:


> My ZS3 came cellophane wrapped with a barcode sticker at the back. And yes, only the medium tips have red bore.
> 
> Also, make sure you insert the cable properly, you might have interchanged it. It should sit like this.


 
 Hey mate thank you so much for the image, Actually I did interchanged the left cable and it was producing grainy sound in my left earpiece during high notes. This actually worried me a lot. Came here to post a thread and ask if anyone had this issue. Luckily saw this image i changed it to a correct position and now no more grainy sound  Thanks a lot buddy


----------



## Mus1c

Hi everyone im new to headfi community. 
Yesterday i just got kz atr just want to know does kz atr has no bass like kz ate or kz zs3, because i don't hear the bass cuz the bass is just missing or i 
got the bad one?


----------



## Shawn71

mus1c said:


> Hi everyone im new to headfi community.
> Yesterday i just got kz atr just want to know does kz atr has no bass like kz ate or kz zs3, because i don't hear the bass cuz the bass is just missing or i
> got the bad one?




No worries......give some ear time!


----------



## Shawn71

Ok, so I removed the thin metal wire from the zs3 cable that acts as memory part for shaping the mold behind the ears.....now its perfect!
These are vg cables imo.


----------



## bhazard

mus1c said:


> Hi everyone im new to headfi community.
> Yesterday i just got kz atr just want to know does kz atr has no bass like kz ate or kz zs3, because i don't hear the bass cuz the bass is just missing or i
> got the bad one?


 
 Try different sized ear tips. The ATR has a good amount of bass, but not as overpowering like some of the other KZ models.


----------



## Mus1c

shawn71 said:


> No worries......give some ear time!


ok... I just curious cuz worried about i got defective one.


----------



## Mus1c

bhazard said:


> Try different sized ear tips. The ATR has a good amount of bass, but not as overpowering like some of the other KZ models.


 Mine doesn't hear bass at all it fell like flat and it just mising the bass cuz i like to listen most to edm, pop.. etc. wat eartips should i use or what do you recommend? To get the best bass from this kz


----------



## Mus1c

bhazard I has test some of eartips that kz provide but nothing significant change to the audio.


----------



## Griffith

mus1c said:


> @bhazard I has test some of eartips that kz provide but nothing significant change to the audio.


 
  
 I have 4 or 5 types of ear tips. On the KZ Ate, I've tested all of them. All of them, without exception changed the sound: either slightly or significantly. To measure those changes you would need to have a very specific device that mimic's an ear channel like, for example, Tyll's (from http://innerfidelity.com/ ) Head Acoustics HMS II.3 Head Simulator: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurment-proceedures-introduction-and-equipment#1sQCmIVMcYXG6dTF.97
  
 Even with such a device, it would be hard to determine the exact impact of the eartip on a person's ear because every ear is unique to the results vary from person to person.
  
 Having a proper, or better seal, on any of the KZ earphones I own (be it the ATE, the ZS3 or the ED9) has a noticeable and significant impact on the characteristics of the sound but it's not something that you can measure unless you try them for yourself. Whatever ear tips work for me, might not work for you and this is something you have to discover by trial and error.


----------



## Mus1c

griffith said:


> I have 4 or 5 types of ear tips. On the KZ Ate, I've tested all of them. All of them, without exception changed the sound: either slightly or significantly. To measure those changes you would need to have a very specific device that mimic's an ear channel like, for example, Tyll's (from http://innerfidelity.com/ ) Head Acoustics HMS II.3 Head Simulator: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurment-proceedures-introduction-and-equipment#1sQCmIVMcYXG6dTF.97
> 
> Even with such a device, it would be hard to determine the exact impact of the eartip on a person's ear because every ear is unique to the results vary from person to person.
> 
> Having a proper, or better seal, on any of the KZ earphones I own (be it the ATE, the ZS3 or the ED9) has a noticeable and significant impact on the characteristics of the sound but it's not something that you can measure unless you try them for yourself. Whatever ear tips work for me, might not work for you and this is something you have to discover by trial and error.


 I didn't mean the audio is change, i have proper seal kz atr cuz i want to know did my kz is defective or no


----------



## Mus1c

Griffith btw i mean by audio is that my kz atr i can't hear the bass from it, indeed i have proper and the audio doesn't change from what hear i from this forum before purchasing it. I just curious to know that my kz was not defective or it is because i cannot hear the bass.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

mus1c said:


> @Griffith btw i mean by audio is that my kz atr i can't hear the bass from it, indeed i have proper and the audio doesn't change from what hear i from this forum before purchasing it. I just curious to know that my kz was not defective or it is because i cannot hear the bass.


 
 The ATR has bass, but it's nowhere near a basshead IEM which I think is what you are kind of looking for.
  
 You are probably used to a super bassy sound signature, and as a result find the ATR has very little to no bass.  Give the ATRs a couple of days so you can get used to the sound.
  
 If you really want bassy IEMs, the ED9 would have been a better choice.


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> The ATR has bass, but it's nowhere near a basshead IEM which I think is what you are kind of looking for.
> 
> You are probably used to a super bassy sound signature, and as a result find the ATR has very little to no bass.  Give the ATRs a couple of days so you can get used to the sound.
> 
> If you really want bassy IEMs, the ED9 would have been a better choice.


 

I think thats might be the problem cuz i do own kz ate recently. Do have nice bass that i want now its broke cuz the right ear doesn't work.so i purchase the kz atr which i got yesterday and i took listen to it and i wasn't very impressed by the sound cuz they don't have bass like Ate or ate-s i thought 
it will be same bass as ate Cuz its improvement from ate.But i do impress by detailed of the sound just missing at the bass i thought it gonna be like ate but more better with bass.ok i give a shot couple of days to try them out and to hear the bass of it.


----------



## Kerkyboi

ricemanhk said:


> I've inserted it correctly and all the way in as in the pictures, it's loose for sure.  For both the stock and silver cable, there's even a cutout on the wire housing to show how far you need to insert them into the earbud, so I'm sure I have them correct.  Anyway it's fine, the silver cables work well so I'm not gonna go through the hassle to return them.  Plus I'm edging towards the ZST in terms of my preferred sound...
> 
> I checked the impedance, the silver cables for both ZS3 and ZST are both around 1.2ohms, the stock cables are around 1.5-1.6 ohms.  Given the short length of the wires, I do not think the difference should matter significantly, but I'll do more testing by ear over the weekend.  Perhaps the ZST stock cable has been fixed compared to earlier batches...or it was a QC issue.



Glad to know, but im guessing yours didn't had proper QC, it should've came cellophane wrapped though. Or maybe it was already returned by somebody else and then shipped back to you by the seller? Where did you buy yours?




xcd125 said:


> Hey mate thank you so much for the image, Actually I did interchanged the left cable and it was producing grainy sound in my left earpiece during high notes. This actually worried me a lot. Came here to post a thread and ask if anyone had this issue. Luckily saw this image i changed it to a correct position and now no more grainy sound  Thanks a lot buddy :bigsmile_face:



Glad to be of help mate. Now, let us both enjoy this wonderful little piece of technology. Cheers!




mus1c said:


> Mine doesn't hear bass at all it fell like flat and it just mising the bass cuz i like to listen most to edm, pop.. etc. wat eartips should i use or what do you recommend? To get the best bass from this kz



I don't think any eartips will help you find what you're looking for. With the type of music you mentioned, I'd highly recommend you get yourself a pair of ZS3's if your looking for bass. And ohh, you will love its soundstage too!


----------



## Mus1c

Kerkyboi indeed what you say that any eartips won't work.I have
change many time and it didn't help. 

Nah, its ok i like the kz atr it just bring flat and detailed sound, they bass though that don't notice it untill right now. i just have to take time to listen for couple of days until it suit my taste

I mostly listen to edm and other genres like jazz, RNB, pop... Etc


----------



## macky112

Hi all,
  
 reading through this thread again makes me wanna go on a shopping spree.
  
 so much info here but the search function is not the best, and would appreciate if someone could shed some light:
  
 1. difference between ATE and ATR?
 2. how many revision to ZS1?  is the latest version the one with mesh grill?  and is this latest version still a bass canon?  I have JVC-HAFX101 and 201 for my fun music.
 3. I have Piston 3, xiaomi hybrid, monoprice 8320, and ZS3, so how would the ZST compare to my clarity collection?
  
 TIA


----------



## Herczi

Hi guys!
 My ZST arrived today, it topped my expectations. But what I wanna say I ordered the silver upgrade cable on aliexpress 11.11 sale, and it does not fit, just slips out. The description says it should fit to ZST and ZS3, but not.So be careful if you wanna buy an upgrade cable, you should ask the seller before you buy it.


----------



## khighly

herczi said:


> Hi guys!
> My ZST arrived today, it topped my expectations. But what I wanna say I ordered the silver upgrade cable on aliexpress 11.11 sale, and it does not fit, just slips out. The description says it should fit to ZST and ZS3, but not.So be careful if you wanna buy an upgrade cable, you should ask the seller before you buy it.




Did you firmly push it in with a bit of force? They slide on and then push down. They should seat fairly firmly.


----------



## Herczi

Oh thanks. If you didn't write, I've never thought about that, I had to use ridiculous amount strength. Wow, Thank you. So conclusion If you wanna get an upgrade cable, then go to the gym, work out hard, than you will be worthy enough to have one.


----------



## ayao

mus1c said:


> @Kerkyboi indeed what you say that any eartips won't work.I have
> change many time and it didn't help.
> 
> Nah, its ok i like the kz atr it just bring flat and detailed sound, they bass though that don't notice it untill right now. i just have to take time to listen for couple of days until it suit my taste
> ...


 
  
 If anything, when I got my original ATE (when only the silver one was available), I also didn't hear any bass (as in less bass than the Etymotic MC5) no matter what tips I used (Sony Hybrid, SpinFit, Comply etc..), so it kinda led me to believe that my pair was faulty.


----------



## khighly

ayao said:


> If anything, when I got my original ATE (when only the silver one was available), I also didn't hear any bass (as in less bass than the Etymotic MC5) no matter what tips I used (Sony Hybrid, SpinFit, Comply etc..), so it kinda led me to believe that my pair was faulty.


 

 They have little to no sub bass. I find anything below 50hz is severely missing. I shouldn't have to mod them either


----------



## Shinry

Info:
 The 1More Burn-In-App is now available in english. Go to the Androidstore and select to update it. 
 Before I couldn't switch the different phases of noise, really bugged me.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Mus1c

ayao said:


> If anything, when I got my original ATE (when only the silver one was available), I also didn't hear any bass (as in less bass than the Etymotic MC5) no matter what tips I used (Sony Hybrid, SpinFit, Comply etc..), so it kinda led me to believe that my pair was faulty.


 mine was new batch ate the fifth gen translucent one that got broke i dont know how the silver one sound to me. This the new one that i got pretty bassy, i think your silver ate was old than mine version of ate.. 

My ate batch number rq:018N8M


----------



## doggiemom

herczi said:


> Hi guys!
> My ZST arrived today, it topped my expectations. But what I wanna say I ordered the silver upgrade cable on aliexpress 11.11 sale, and it does not fit, just slips out. The description says it should fit to ZST and ZS3, but not.So be careful if you wanna buy an upgrade cable, you should ask the seller before you buy it.


 

 There are two types of silver cables that have different connectors.  I think some of the Ali sellers list the compatible models incorrectly.  I tried to buy 1 ZS3 cable and 2 ZST/ED12 cables all from different sellers - I would up with 2 ZS3 cables and 1 ZST/ED12.


----------



## gemmoglock

shinry said:


> Info:
> The 1More Burn-In-App is now available in english. Go to the Androidstore and select to update it.
> Before I couldn't switch the different phases of noise, really bugged me.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Nice! I can read Chinese but having an official one is great. Could you share the link? Not sure if it is available in my region yet...


----------



## Shinry

gemmoglock said:


> shinry said:
> 
> 
> > Info:
> ...




I hope it works. This is the Link the Appstore gave me when selecting 'Share' (never tried to share an App before) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onemore.app.smartheadset.android[\url]
Edit:
Google says no...
I basically took your link and it appeared in the store when I searched for 1more but just after I installed the App (regionlocked I think)
Before there was no way to get the 1more App
I'm curious why it's like that :/


----------



## dudinacas

My KZ Whirlwind tips arrived today, after 7 days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I don't know if I just can't get a good seal with the medium or small tips (I use small tips normally), but whoever said there was no bass with them was correct. My A920BL IEMs (which are thought to be for bassheads) have near no sub-bass, and even with +15db EQ it doesn't get to the levels that I get with stock tips!


----------



## chompchomps

dudinacas said:


> My KZ Whirlwind tips arrived today, after 7 days
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The KZ whirlwind tips are known to be wide bored and also gives a looser fit. A loose fit will not give a strong bass presence


----------



## zabunny94

shinry said:


> I hope it works. This is the Link the Appstore gave me when selecting 'Share' (never tried to share an App before) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onemore.app.smartheadset.android[\url]
> Edit:
> Google says no...
> I basically took your link and it appeared in the store when I searched for 1more but just after I installed the App (regionlocked I think)
> ...




Try this one, just copy and paste it into your browser

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onemore.app.smartheadset.android

Also, if it isn't available in your region, just find the apk on google and sideload it manually. Since it's free, i guess it doesn't count as piracy doing the above



dudinacas said:


> My KZ Whirlwind tips arrived today, after 7 days
> I don't know if I just can't get a good seal with the medium or small tips (I use small tips normally), but whoever said there was no bass with them was correct. My A920BL IEMs (which are thought to be for bassheads) have near no sub-bass, and even with +15db EQ it doesn't get to the levels that I get with stock tips! :blink:




Glad you like it, i guess the whirlwind is definitely capable of decreasing the bass more than any of those silver cable can ever hope


----------



## Vidal

kerkyboi said:


> Glad to know, but im guessing yours didn't had proper QC, it should've came cellophane wrapped though. Or maybe it was already returned by somebody else and then shipped back to you by the seller? Where did you buy yours?


 
  
 Seeing that most buy from Gearbest, when a pair of KZ earphones arrive without cellophane they always have a small foil QC label on them. This indicates that they have been tested by Gearbest themselves. I have 4 pairs of ZS3s here and only 1 has no cellophane, that one has a QC label.
  


herczi said:


> Hi guys!
> My ZST arrived today, it topped my expectations. But what I wanna say I ordered the silver upgrade cable on aliexpress 11.11 sale, and it does not fit, just slips out. The description says it should fit to ZST and ZS3, but not.So be careful if you wanna buy an upgrade cable, you should ask the seller before you buy it.


 
  
 The ZS3 cables do seem to fit the ZST but they seem a bit loose. The cable entry on the ZS3 is more recessed than the ZST.
  
 My first experience with the ZST was quite a while ago whilst the sound was OK, I found the bass too much. I've just tried a newer pair of from my stock cupboard and there is a marked change from what I remember from my earlier pair.


----------



## Vidal

ayao said:


> If anything, when I got my original ATE (when only the silver one was available), I also didn't hear any bass (as in less bass than the Etymotic MC5) no matter what tips I used (Sony Hybrid, SpinFit, Comply etc..), so it kinda led me to believe that my pair was faulty.


 
  
 If you can't EQ the bass up then the problem is the tips, if EQing improves the sound then you need bassier earphones.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> If you can't EQ the bass up then the problem is the tips, if EQing improves the sound then you need bassier earphones.


 I think i need a bassier headphone cuz i try different eartips and nothing improved.i have proper seal with eartips i just dont hear the bass quite like kz ate or zs3 until i crank the bass in eq setting and it solved the prob.


----------



## Mus1c

Vidal hey how the difference between kz zs3 and kz zst.I want to know the sound sig of them


----------



## Vidal

ZS3 is bassier than ZST based on a quick listening this morning.


----------



## aaDee

arghhhhhhhhhh.....couldn't resist the temptation to order ZST for $12 from GB.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> ZS3 is bassier than ZST based on a quick listening this morning.


 so is good for edm cuz i like bass kz. I make mistakes for purchasing the kz atr cuz it doesn't havybass like kz zs3 arghh. What about the zst sound sig izit similar to the kz zs3 or more kind like kz atr that more flat and detailed sound?


----------



## Lorspeaker

ZS3 is a ZST without a balanced armature driver

The top end sparkle isnt as pronounced.


----------



## sharpex

aadee said:


> arghhhhhhhhhh.....couldn't resist the temptation to order ZST for $12 from GB.


 
Me too 
I'm excited about my ATR - ATEs - ED2 - ED3 - ED9 - ZN1 - W1pro  but the curiosity is so great, and I want to add fuel to the fire.


----------



## Mus1c

lorspeaker said:


> ZS3 is a ZST without a balanced armature driver
> 
> The top end sparkle isnt as pronounced.


so they have same sound sig? Like soundstage, mids, treble all sorts stuff?


----------



## Lorspeaker

In the sz3..yur attention is drawn to the mids...
And if u put on the zst..u realised the lack of sparkle on sz3..
N if u switch back to sz3 again..u will say ..
Ahhhh nice mids


----------



## ricemanhk

lorspeaker said:


> ZS3 is a ZST without a balanced armature driver
> 
> The top end sparkle isnt as pronounced.


 
  
 Agree with this, based on my brief listen.  ZST bass is surprisingly strong (since many here complained about the lack of it), and I find the ZST bass also more articulate than ZS3.
  
 ZS3 has a fun sound, but ZST just has more resolution with the BA which then allows the DD to focus on the bass.


----------



## To.M

lorspeaker said:


> In the sz3..yur attention is drawn to the mids...
> And if u put on the zst..u realised the lack of sparkle on sz3..
> N if u switch back to sz3 again..u will say ..
> Ahhhh nice mids




Careful, you're gonna fall into a neverending loop! 

ricemanhk Yeah, there is a solid amount of bass in ZST, it is just a matter of finding a proper seal.


----------



## CoiL

macky112 said:


> 1. difference between ATE and ATR?


 
 Different drivers. I have taken apart both of them. Soundwise ATR is slightly more balanced and has more "in your face" sound presentation than ATE. 
 ATE has noticeably larger soundstage and more "out of the headstage" presentation.


----------



## DikZak

Yay, they just delivered my ATR.
*First impression:* Not the wow-feeling I once had when I got my Klipsch Image S4. Bass & Vocals are very clear, maybe a bit more bass than I expected but they sound fine otherwise. Maybe because it goes pretty deep, deeper than most earphones I heard.

 The highs not as clear as I expected. Sound a bit muddy(cymbals, that is), if that is the right word. And the whole sounds a bit "lower" - Also don't know the word for that, I am not used to these head-fi terms yet. I hear plenty of detail throughout though. Very lifelike. (if one can put my words to terms common used here, I would be happy so I actually understand more what you guys are saying)
  
 And man, these things are huge but they fit fine otherwise. These little weights are great when wearing them over the ear.

 Still waiting for my Vivo EX800 to compare these two.
 Bit hesitant to buy ZST. What's the ZST compared to the ATR like?


----------



## Griffith

dikzak said:


> Yay, they just delivered my ATR.
> *First impression:* Not the wow-feeling I once had when I got my Klipsch Image S4. Bass & Vocals are very clear, maybe a bit more bass than I expected but they sound fine otherwise. Maybe because it goes pretty deep, deeper than most earphones I heard.
> 
> The highs not as clear as I expected. Sound a bit muddy(cymbals, that is), if that is the right word. And the whole sounds a bit "lower" - Also don't know the word for that, I am not used to these head-fi terms yet. I hear plenty of detail throughout though. Very lifelike. (if one can put my words to terms common used here, I would be happy so I actually understand more what you guys are saying)
> ...


 
  
 By "lower" I think you mean recessed. There's a blog I follow that has a nice article on how to describe sound that you might find useful: https://www.audiophileon.com/news/how-to-describe-sound-an-audiophile-terminology-guide


----------



## DikZak

griffith said:


> By "lower" I think you mean recessed. There's a blog I follow that has a nice article on how to describe sound that you might find useful: https://www.audiophileon.com/news/how-to-describe-sound-an-audiophile-terminology-guide




Thanks, nice article 

I meant dark. I wasn't describing solely the highs but the whole sound it produces


----------



## Griffith

dikzak said:


> Thanks, nice article
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know, in that case you should say "the highs sound recessed". That way you're only characterizing those frequencies of sounds (like the cymbals and such).


----------



## Mus1c

Anyone know how to make kz atr more bassy?


----------



## Mus1c

Can anybody clarify what fun sound signature sound like? I mean the Kz zs3.


----------



## DikZak

Ah, I see what you are getting at. Thanks once again.

Went to side-by-side listening with my Image S4. While I like these, because they sound a bit more airy. However after comparing they have extreme sibilance. But I like the balance better, bit less bass and more mids & highs and crispier. However I hate the sibilance now.
My journey continues, really interested if vivo xe800 are good for my taste. Have to wait...

That said, for 4$ the ATR is good, and about in the same range as my sennheiser cx250 which costed me $25 back then. My S4 were $55 and is still bit crispier.


----------



## Lorspeaker

4$ for ATR is good....11$ for the zst is GREAT


----------



## ricemanhk

OK, here are my thoughts on the ZST and ZS3.  In short, the 2 are both really good but have quite different sound signatures, so pick the one based on your music/sound preferences.  My own preference is the ZST as I prefer more detail and resolution and I'm NOT all about that bass.
  
*ZST *
 Very easy to get a good seal every time, and the bass is there though not overwhelming.  Mids and highs are very clear, lots of detail and resolution.  Medium sound stage, I've had a wider sound stage with my xiaomi pistons gen 5 (the new 2DD + BA hybrid) but that one also has a more airy feel, perhaps due to the front and back ports.  
  
 Silver vs Stock cable: as I wrote previously, there's a slight impedance difference between the 2 wires (1.2ohms vs 1.5-1.6). Not enough to matter in actual listening though, I have a feeling the silver wire makes the ZSTs a TOUCH brighter but that may be all in my head, as the wire swapping take a fair bit of time.
  
*ZS3*
 ZS3 has oh so much more bass, almost like a wall of bass.  Great for EDM and bass heavy music, but not as good for jazz/classical as the highs are a bit recessed and muddled.  Mids I would say is a tie, ZS3 has warmth in the vocals, while ZST has more resolution.  I also prefer the wires on the ZST that don't have the memory wire, which actually makes them more comfy and easier to store.  (Did someone here say they took out the memory wire?  Any instructions on how?)
  
 Both are super comfy to wear, but I find I have to adjust my ZS3s more frequently than the ZSTs when I'm walking around.  The litmus test is when I put in the earbuds and get a good seal, then make a big smile which reduces the seal coz my ears move, then go back to normal.  ZSTs tend to go back to a good seal, while the ZS3s sometimes will stay loose and I need to adjust.
  
 For extended/serious listening I used to use my UE TF 10s.  They still sound better than the ZSTs (so much more resolution and richness) but unfortunately the comfort level is lacking...my ears tend to ache after an hour or so especially with the reverse mod, but then i also don't want to look like a teletubby.  Anyway I think the ZSTs will be my daily drivers from now...
  
 Bottom line, for the price both earbuds are a no brainer, pick the one based on your preferred music type and sound profile.  If only their mic had volume controls as well then that would be perfect...at least for Android phones to keep the costs low.  I also can't wait for the ZSRs to come out, if they can tune it well it should be really awesome!


----------



## chickenmoon

mus1c said:


> Anyone know how to make kz atr more bassy?




Try put some foam in the tips bores, that should filter out some of the highs and mids and it'll therefore become bassier. I do that with the monoprice 88320 and it works very well for taming its too much brightness. Whether ATR will still sound good doing that I am not sure but I think that's all you can try to do.


----------



## chickenmoon

mus1c said:


> Can anybody clarify what fun sound signature sound like? I mean the Kz zs3.




ZS3 has bass and sub-bass boost, I think that means fun.


----------



## Ruben123

dikzak said:


> Ah, I see what you are getting at. Thanks once again.
> 
> Went to side-by-side listening with my Image S4. While I like these, because they sound a bit more airy. However after comparing they have extreme sibilance. But I like the balance better, bit less bass and more mids & highs and crispier. However I hate the sibilance now.
> My journey continues, really interested if vivo xe800 are good for my taste. Have to wait...
> ...




While the Atr is warm balanced - the vivo is more bright balanced, if you understand what I mean. It's really great


----------



## n1ls

I have a pair of ZS1 and ATE S, and thought ZS3 would make a great addition to my collection. I ordered these on Gearbest but they haven't shipped it since a month, and the first time I raised a ticket they told me it's on back order. I raised another ticket 2 days ago, and they told me that the product is in stock and will be shipped immediately, but the order status is still in processing. Is this something to expect from GB?  Has anyone who ordered this November from GB received their ZS3's?


----------



## chickenmoon

dikzak said:


> Ah, I see what you are getting at. Thanks once again.
> 
> Went to side-by-side listening with my Image S4. While I like these, because they sound a bit more airy. However after comparing they have extreme sibilance. But I like the balance better, bit less bass and more mids & highs and crispier. However I hate the sibilance now.
> My journey continues, really interested if vivo xe800 are good for my taste. Have to wait...
> ...




XE800 is extremely bright, to me just at the limit of what's tolerable, it pretty much avoids sibilance however and doesn't have any intolerable hot peak like the 8320.


----------



## Griffith

mus1c said:


> Can anybody clarify what fun sound signature sound like? I mean the Kz zs3.


 
  
 Depends on who you ask.
  
 Usually people characterize headphones that are "fun" when there is a frequency of the sounds that is more forward than others and makes parts or specific types of sounds of songs sound really engaging. Some people characterize the KZ ZS3 or the KZ ED9 as fun earphones because they have a lot of bass, that's the characteristic that makes it fun for people who appreciate bass. But for example my Fostex T50RP MK3 are also considered very fun earphones but they are not extremely bassy, instead they have very bright highs and that in turn really livens up songs that have nice highs.
  
 If someone characterize an earphone/headphone as "fun", that adjective alone tells me almost nothing about how they actually sound.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i am listening to GHOST..ZS3 thru xduoo x10..
 greeted by a bodacious male voice...cooing for his love..
 spacious..hall like ambience...didnt felt the highs were restricted..
 he is hungering for her love now...
 oldstyle drumming on my left..
 far deep right..some violins in the background..
 the song is coming to an end...
 its a longing departure kind of song.
  
 A carribean song now...all the strange percussive thumpssss...
 with some reverbs felt...wow 
  
 ( i wont put on the ZST for now...too much FUN !! )


----------



## Griffith

n1ls said:


> I have a pair of ZS1 and ATE S, and thought ZS3 would make a great addition to my collection. I ordered these on Gearbest but they haven't shipped it since a month, and the first time I raised a ticket they told me it's on back order. I raised another ticket 2 days ago, and they told me that the product is in stock and will be shipped immediately, but the order status is still in processing. Is this something to expect from GB?  Has anyone who ordered this November from GB received their ZS3's?


 
  
 I ordered my ZS3 on the 12th of November and have had them for a couple of weeks now. Unfortunately I had a similar issue with the ZST that took over a week to ship. It's not something that has ever occurred to me before. In general Gearbest has been reliable and shipped products in a prompt manner and usually they are delivered much faster than the products I order from Aliexpress.


----------



## Mus1c

griffith said:


> Depends on who you ask.
> 
> Usually people characterize headphones that are "fun" when there is a frequency of the sounds that is more forward than others and makes parts or specific types of sounds of songs sound really engaging. Some people characterize the KZ ZS3 or the KZ ED9 as fun earphones because they have a lot of bass, that's the characteristic that makes it fun for people who appreciate bass. But for example my Fostex T50RP MK3 are also considered very fun earphones but they are not extremely bassy, instead they have very bright highs and that in turn really livens up songs that have nice highs.
> 
> If someone characterize an earphone/headphone as "fun", that adjective alone tells me almost nothing about how they actually sound.


ok i got it, thanks for clarification.


----------



## chickenmoon

ED10 is fun, it sounds like hitting an anvil with a hammer.


----------



## Mus1c

chickenmoon said:


> Try put some foam in the tips bores, that should filter out some of the highs and mids and it'll therefore become bassier. I do that with the monoprice 88320 and it works very well for taming its too much brightness. Whether ATR will still sound good doing that I am not sure but I think that's all you can try to do.


Can you show me how do the thing on ur monoprice 88320. Just one question,wat is tips bore?.


----------



## n1ls

griffith said:


> I ordered my ZS3 on the 12th of November and have had them for a couple of weeks now. Unfortunately I had a similar issue with the ZST that took over a week to ship. It's not something that has ever occurred to me before. In general Gearbest has been reliable and shipped products in a prompt manner and usually they are delivered much faster than the products I order from Aliexpress.


 
 I got my ZS1 from Gearbest in about 10 days from placing the order, was impressed by the speed and decided to get the ZS3 from them. I didn't expect it would take a month to even process the order. LOL. I've had terrible experience on Aliexpress previously with shipping delays, but the silver cable I ordered for the ZS3 a week ago is already in my country, and will probably be delivered this weekend.


----------



## Griffith

n1ls said:


> I got my ZS1 from Gearbest in about 10 days from placing the order, was impressed by the speed and decided to get the ZS3 from them. I didn't expect it would take a month to even process the order. LOL. I've had terrible experience on Aliexpress previously with shipping delays, but the silver cable I ordered for the ZS3 a week ago is already in my country, and will probably be delivered this weekend.


 
  
 If you message Gearbest's support they should be able to tell you when the earphones will actually arrive/ship within a few days margin. Their support is always informative and polite and to me that's a big plus compared to most Aliexpress sellers who when you complain or just ask something you get an answer that's something in the lines of: "please no give me brad rating or me lose my job. me give your refund if you want please don't give bad rating" without answering your actual question: When/Why will/Haven't they ship(ed)?"


----------



## chickenmoon

mus1c said:


> Can you show me how do the thing on ur monoprice 88320. Just one question,wat is tips bore?.




Well you just cut some small pieces of foam and you push them into the bores/ducts/holes of your earphone tips.


----------



## Mus1c

chickenmoon said:


> Well you just cut some small pieces of foam and you push them into the bores/ducts/holes of your earphone tips.


ok thanks


----------



## Lorspeaker

The ZS3 can be quite "sufficient" if u have a portable /amp with HIGH gain..
 i was listening to some cello on low gain n tot i was about to be submerged under water..
 switched to HIGHgain n I am out of the water


----------



## n1ls

griffith said:


> ...compared to most Aliexpress sellers who when you complain or just ask something you get an answer that's something in the lines of: "please no give me brad rating or me lose my job. me give your refund if you want please don't give bad rating"


 
 That's funny. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And a bit sad too. I get that sort of replies from Ebay sellers as well. But hey, at least they make an effort to rectify the problem.


----------



## Griffith

n1ls said:


> That's funny.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 To be fair though, if something is back-ordered there isn't much the seller can do to alleviate your problem. They could have been more honest upfront about whether they had the product in stock or not, but given the popularity the KZ earphones had during november with many people from this thread, including myself, purchasing them left and right... it's not immensely surprising to me that they had stock issues and I think the same should hold true, to some extent to most online retailers.


----------



## Podster

ricemanhk said:


> OK, here are my thoughts on the ZST and ZS3.  In short, the 2 are both really good but have quite different sound signatures, so pick the one based on your music/sound preferences.  My own preference is the ZST as I prefer more detail and resolution and I'm NOT all about that bass.
> 
> *ZST *
> Very easy to get a good seal every time, and the bass is there though not overwhelming.  Mids and highs are very clear, lots of detail and resolution.  Medium sound stage, I've had a wider sound stage with my xiaomi pistons gen 5 (the new 2DD + BA hybrid) but that one also has a more airy feel, perhaps due to the front and back ports.
> ...


 

@ricemanhk good assessments, true the ZS3's much like the ZN1 Mini can be extremely fun due to the bass forward signature. I prefer mush more highs than most and the ZST's provide these in spades but for the price one can't go wrong with either and have two very different sounding iem's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Having tons of fun with my ZST/M1 combo


----------



## Mus1c

chickenmoon yo you just save my life bro cuz it work tq u soo much


----------



## DikZak

ruben123 said:


> While the Atr is warm balanced - the vivo is more bright balanced, if you understand what I mean. It's really great




Yeah that's why I bought them both. And also to experience what bright really means. ^^




chickenmoon said:


> XE800 is extremely bright, to me just at the limit of what's tolerable, it pretty much avoids sibilance however and doesn't have any intolerable hot peak like the 8320.




I'm very curious what they sound like. But it will probably arrive somewhere between christmas



Does anyone know if ZST fit in between? Between XE800 & ATR?


----------



## ricemanhk

Side note: the KZ foam eartips suck.  There's no inner plastic bore to hold onto the earbud, so they tend to slip right off if you have a decent seal.  Also their largest one is still only 12mm which is just barely enough for my ears, and I normally use the mid size silicone tips.
  
 I will try to get some comply T400s to try...


----------



## chickenmoon

dikzak said:


> Does anyone know if ZST fit in between? Between XE800 & ATR?




As someone said ATR is balanced towards warm and XE800 is balanced toward (very) bright. IMO ZST would be right in the middle and superior to both if it wasn't for a narrow hot peak boosting sibilance and cymbal crashes which is a deal breaker for me as I find it both too annoying and too unnatural in presentation because of it.


----------



## chickenmoon

mus1c said:


> chickenmoon yo you just save my life bro cuz it work tq u soo much


----------



## Shinry

I've just come across some other KZ
 "KZ IE80" (why are all IE80/800 etc?)
  
 Are they known here or are they older models I just haven't seen until now?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Original-KZ-IE80-3-5MM-Stereo-In-Ear-Earphone-Noise-Cancelling-Headphone-HiFi-Super/32780268637.html
  
 They are stated to be hybrids. If they are new I'll may get them once they are on sale.
  
 Edit again, searchfunction is a friend


----------



## iQuest

mus1c said:


> @chickenmoon yo you just save my life bro cuz it work tq u soo much


 
 pics plz


----------



## Podster

shinry said:


> I've just come across some other KZ
> "KZ IE80" (why are all IE80/800 etc?)
> 
> Are they known here or are they older models I just haven't seen until now?
> ...


 

 I thought they were an older model but maybe not, I also thought the ZST was KZ's first real DD/BA hybrid


----------



## To.M

They are no hybrid but dynamic driver.


----------



## Shinry

AE states it false then :/ I also had my doubts since I couldn't spot a BA in the open picture.
Well, not thaaat interestin then.


----------



## Kerkyboi

ricemanhk said:


> OK, here are my thoughts on the ZST and ZS3.  In short, the 2 are both really good but have quite different sound signatures, so pick the one based on your music/sound preferences.  My own preference is the ZST as I prefer more detail and resolution and I'm NOT all about that bass.
> 
> *ZST *
> Very easy to get a good seal every time, and the bass is there though not overwhelming.  Mids and highs are very clear, lots of detail and resolution.  Medium sound stage, I've had a wider sound stage with my xiaomi pistons gen 5 (the new 2DD + BA hybrid) but that one also has a more airy feel, perhaps due to the front and back ports.
> ...


 I will have to agree on everything you said. I asked my brother last week to try the ZST colorfuls on one reseller back home and compare it to his newly bought piston pro(2DD+BA) and he described it exactly the same.




n1ls said:


> I have a pair of ZS1 and ATE S, and thought ZS3 would make a great addition to my collection. I ordered these on Gearbest but they haven't shipped it since a month, and the first time I raised a ticket they told me it's on back order. I raised another ticket 2 days ago, and they told me that the product is in stock and will be shipped immediately, but the order status is still in processing. Is this something to expect from GB?  Has anyone who ordered this November from GB received their ZS3's?


ordered mine 1st week of November if I remember it right, they sent it after a week and it came 1st week December. My ED12's which I ordered last week of october hasn't arrived still. Cust service asked me to just patiently wait until its 60days lapse and just then will they provide a resolution.


----------



## Podster

to.m said:


> They are no hybrid but dynamic driver.


 

 I'm guessing he picked that up from this in the specs:

Vocalism Principle: Hybrid technology
  
 True hybrid is the combination of DD and BA regardless of driver count


----------



## DikZak

chickenmoon said:


> As someone said ATR is balanced towards warm and XE800 is balanced toward (very) bright. IMO ZST would be right in the middle and superior to both if it wasn't for a narrow hot peak boosting sibilance and cymbal crashes which is a deal breaker for me as I find it both too annoying and too unnatural in presentation because of it.




What's then your go to IEM, seems like I need to get what you like?


----------



## Lorspeaker

to.m said:


> They are no hybrid but dynamic driver.


 
  
  

  
 u talking about the ZST? this is their advertised pic.


----------



## To.M

Absolutely no, I know what my ZST have inside  it was about kz ie80 which Shinry mentioned.

By the way, I must confess something...have been cheating on my ZST recently...an audio-affair with KINERA BD005, I got them 2 days ago and I like them a lot


----------



## chickenmoon

dikzak said:


> What's then your go to IEM, seems like I need to get what you like?




Amongst the 14 KZs I've got, it's the ED9 with reference nozzles no doubt. It's clean, forward, well balanced, very fairly detailed with more than decent soundstage, a great little all rounder IMO.


----------



## Lorspeaker

to.m said:


> Absolutely no, I know what my ZST have inside  it was about kz ie80 which @Shinry mentioned.
> 
> By the way, I must confess something...have been cheating on my ZST recently...an audio-affair with KINERA BD005, I got them 2 days ago and I like them a lot


 
  
 It comes with steel cables???


----------



## Podster

lorspeaker said:


> u talking about the ZST? this is their advertised pic.


 

 Hey Lors, I think it was directed at Shinry who thought the KZ IE80 was hybrid and not the ZST. KZ stated in their early advertisements that the ZST was their first venture into true hybrid and yes as said for $12 it's just crazy to have a decent hybrid with the ability to swap cables. KZ has really come a long way since my Micro Ring's and ED9's which I still think are killer DD iem's for the asking price. I pretty much feel the same about all my KZ's


----------



## dudinacas

shinry said:


> I've just come across some other KZ
> "KZ IE80" (why are all IE80/800 etc?)
> 
> Are they known here or are they older models I just haven't seen until now?
> ...


 

 Yep, they're a 1DD IEM, apparently a warm sound (minimal sub-bass though) and you can change the amount of bass with the corner switch. Probably not worth it for the price, but it's a fairly old KZ model which might explain the price.


----------



## smy1

shinry said:


> I've just come across some other KZ
> "KZ IE80" (why are all IE80/800 etc?)
> 
> Are they known here or are they older models I just haven't seen until now?
> ...




I have the KZ ie80 and they are amazing, really wide soundstage. I never heard the real Sennheiser ie80s but if i had to guess the kz ie80 and the sennheiser ie80s might sound similar.


----------



## James Freeman

Extended frequency response like super bass is for little girls.
 IEM should sound flat and balanced like studio monitors or any other quality reference speakers.
  
 Searching for a special sonic signature in IEM is like taking a huge dump on the artist musical intention because the artists actually mixed on a flat studio monitors.
 In my opinion the IEM should be as transparent as possible when compared to studio monitors.
 If one wants to boost or cut certain frequencies to taste an EQ is used, but always start as flat as possible.
  
 I have a bunch of IEMs from KZ but the ED9 with additional foam in the nozzle is the closes to flat studio monitors in my experience.
  
 As a side note, cable modification is nothing but a waste of money unless you run separate grounds from source to each capsule which is not the case in any IEM.


----------



## Mus1c

james freeman said:


> Extended frequency response like super bass is for little girls.
> IEM should sound flat and balanced like studio monitors or any other quality reference speakers.
> 
> Searching for a special sonic signature in IEM is like taking a huge dump on the artist musical intention because the artists actually mixed on a flat studio monitors.
> ...


 You should try the new kz atr cuz is flattest sounding iem and it suit your taste.


----------



## dudinacas

james freeman said:


> Extended frequency response like super bass is for little girls.
> IEM should sound flat and balanced like studio monitors or any other quality reference speakers.
> 
> Searching for a special sonic signature in IEM is like taking a huge dump on the artist musical intention because the artists actually mixed on a flat studio monitors.
> ...


 
 It's personal preference, just because you don't like different sound signatures doesn't mean those sound signatures are inherently bad.


----------



## ayao

james freeman said:


> Extended frequency response like super bass is for little girls.
> IEM should sound flat and balanced like studio monitors or any other quality reference speakers.
> 
> Searching for a special sonic signature in IEM is like taking a huge dump on the artist musical intention because the artists actually mixed on a flat studio monitors.
> ...


 
 I personally disagree. I don't believe ALL music is mixed on flat studio monitors, and I know for a fact that a flat-response is NOT ideal for musicians on stage. I also know people who own the HD800 but would rather enjoy music with the TH-X00, and they don't look like little girls to me.


----------



## Lorspeaker

mus1c said:


> You should try the new kz atr cuz is flattest sounding iem and it suit your taste.


 
  
 took out the ATR for a spin on the xduoo x10 dap on high gain...
 even tempered. full bodied vocals, strong bass but not over emphasized..
 the ceiling on the highs dun feel as dark as the ZS3
 went thru diff genres...oldies, jazz..big rampaging classicals..
 this ATR goes thru the pace with ease.
 if u just want to own an inexpensive, impressive KZ, 
 ( UNDER FIVE BUCKS?? ) this could/had to be it.
  
  
  
 edit
 On low gain, this iem sounded 10%  less intense.
 If u have a lower resolution device/fone.. its gonna be less tight.
 The ATR still pass off creditably on my fone..whew.
  
 errmm...The livelier ED9 could a better match with my samsungfone..


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I really do like my ED9, but I found that for extended listening sessions the constant punching of bass is quite tiring on my ears.  For short sessions they are super enjoyable, though.


----------



## khighly

lorspeaker said:


> took out the ATR for a spin on the xduoo x10 dap on high gain...
> even tempered. full bodied vocals, strong bass but not over emphasized..
> the ceiling on the highs dun feel as dark as the ZS3
> went thru diff genres...oldies, jazz..big rampaging classicals..
> ...



 


ATR's severely lack sub bass but is fairly flat sounding. High's don't really shine at all and are recessed. It's something that makes me unable to listen to a lot of dubstep


----------



## Lorspeaker

On highgain..xduoo x10 it comes ALiVE


----------



## CoiL

to.m said:


> By the way, I must confess something...have been cheating on my ZST recently...an audio-affair with KINERA BD005, I got them 2 days ago and I like them a lot


 
 How are their mids compared and soundstage size (especially frontal depth and layering?
  


lorspeaker said:


> mus1c said:
> 
> 
> > You should try the new kz atr cuz is flattest sounding iem and it suit your taste.
> ...


 
 Agree with ATR sounding closest to "studio monitors" out of newer KZ`s and they wake up alive when amped little. Add KZ starline tips and it sounds very coherent and slightly "warmish" balanced, non-fatigue sound with plenty of details.


----------



## Ruben123

sometechnoob said:


> I really do like my ED9, but I found that for extended listening sessions the constant punching of bass is quite tiring on my ears.  For short sessions they are super enjoyable, though.




Try the other nozzles. The ed9 is not bassy


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ruben123 said:


> Try the other nozzles. The ed9 is not bassy


 
 Yeah, those impressions were with the stock nozzles.  The other set of nozzles for some reason don't seem to let the ear tips seal as well, especially in my right ear.  Didn't like the sound signature of them, but maybe I'll give them another shot.


----------



## CoiL

Maybe Your other nozzles (brass ones) has one side "filter" piece inside nozzle not properly placed or fixed? Take a look.
 If that isn`t the issue, then try with other tips. ED9 with brass nozzle + little foam piece inside are quite balanced and enjoyable.


----------



## James Freeman

Some say the ED9 lacks bass, some say it is bassy.
 Some say ATR are close to studio monitors, others say they are darker compared to the ED9, yet others say they lack in bass.
  
 I remember a time when ATE were the shizle here, but when I tried them they were muffled.
 I also remember the ED3c (Acme) were very recommended here, but sounded to me like a a bass bomb puffing my ear canal with air.
 The ZS3 had hype as big the milky way, but quickly died out.
  
 It seems we have the whole rainbow of personal opinions full of hype and bad grammar.


----------



## VShaft

to.m said:


> By the way, I must confess something...have been cheating on my ZST recently...an audio-affair with *KINERA BD005*, I got them 2 days ago and I like them a lot


 
  
 How does the Kinera compare with the ZST? I've been sort of eyeing these Kinera model, but can't find much info on them as they don't seem to be very popular. If you had to pick, which one would you choose - ZST or BD005?


----------



## Ruben123

james freeman said:


> Some say the ED9 lacks bass, some say it is bassy.
> Some say ATR are close to studio monitors, others say they are darker compared to the ED9, yet others say they lack in bass.
> 
> I remember a time when ATE were the shizle here, but when I tried them they were muffled.
> ...




The ed9 is, together with the hds1, of the kzs the closest to neutral. Both are off by a bit though. The zs3 is very enjoyable and so is the Atr, as they sound quite similar. Zs3 isolates more though. At 4 dollars or even less, the Atr is sure the best bang for your bucks but they are not neutral at all. Both are dark, but the Atr is somewhat balanced. Doesn't make them bad though, not at all. I still think it you want studio monitor or reference sound at a tight budget, you should get the Monoprice 8320. They're better than either ed9 or hdsq1, but hey, they're even less bassy


----------



## CoiL

james freeman said:


> Some say the ED9 lacks bass, some say it is bassy.
> Some say ATR are close to studio monitors, others say they are darker compared to the ED9, yet others say they lack in bass.
> 
> I remember a time when ATE were the shizle here, but when I tried them they were muffled.
> ...


 
 ED9 opinions are quite mixed because of different nozzles and preferences (and source gear also).
 I wouldn`t say ATR are darker than ED9 but more realistic/natural in highs. To my subjective taste though, ED9 highs are somewhat "splashy" and slightly unnatural but that`s due to my personal hearing sensitivity around 6.2-7.5 kHz, that`s why I like ATR refined highs little more.
 ED9 has larger soundstage but ATR has more "monitor-like in your face" presentation with average soundstaging.
 Anyway, with the price that ATR goes, definitely try them and don`t get "locked" into one IEM


----------



## mebaali

james freeman said:


> It seems we have the *whole rainbow of personal opinions full of hype and bad grammar*.


 
 While I don't agree with all your viewpoints, but I will on this one, though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 IIRC, @CoiL too pointed this (about pages being filled with loads of less objective personal opinions) out few pages back.
  
 I am myself guilty of it sometimes, as English is not the first language for many of us (herein Headfi)


----------



## B9Scrambler

@James Freeman Dude....what happened? You first came into this thread with constructive comments and some cool insight. Now? It seems like your account is used to troll in the KZ thread because outside of a couple posts from when you first joined, this is the only place you've posted.


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> I wouldn`t say ATR are darker than ED9 but more realistic/natural in highs. To my subjective taste though, ED9 highs are somewhat "splashy" and slightly unnatural but that`s due to my personal hearing sensitivity around 6.2-7.5 kHz, that`s why I like ATR refined highs little more.




Thats where ed9 cldnt handle making them bit harsher but its good that it doesnt touche the sibilance territory unlike vsonic and neither are a darker sounding amongst btw.

And it Cld be they left at that point intentionally for the reason not to lose clarity/details and if someone dont like it just replace the other filter with and go on.......but at decent volume ed9 can be a pleasure listen.


----------



## James Freeman

b9scrambler said:


> @James Freeman Dude....what happened? You first came into this thread with constructive comments and some cool insight. Now? It seems like your account is used to troll in the KZ thread because outside of a couple posts from when you first joined, this is the only place you've posted.


 

 Troll? Where!?! Let me have at him !!!
 Yes, I monitor only the KZ thread for the lack of time to participate in the IEM/Headphones hobby more thoroughly.
 Besides, if an opinion which is not "in line" with the general opinion of the board is considered trolling, I don't want to play anymore.
  
 I am quite sufficed with my Audio Technica ATH-M40x, Behringer Truth B3030A monitors and of course the KZ ED9 using a Saffire Firewire Audio Interface as an audio source.
 Edit: Almost forgot my Polk Audio RTi-A3 which are fantastic speakers, but nothing that the B3030A can't do.
 While I know there is better (and more expensive) equipment out there, I think I'm at the point of diminished returns when it comes to audio quality for all my purposes.
 I'm rocking the ED9s for about 5 months now on a daily basis, time-wise they are the most used audio equipment I own and have returned their value like x1,000,000 times over by now.
  
 Enjoying a KZ here!


----------



## Griffith

james freeman said:


> Some say the ED9 lacks bass, some say it is bassy.
> Some say ATR are close to studio monitors, others say they are darker compared to the ED9, yet others say they lack in bass.
> 
> I remember a time when ATE were the shizle here, but when I tried them they were muffled.
> ...


 
  
 The ED9 between the KZ earphones I have (ATE, ZS3 and ED9) are easily the bassiest. I don't know if there are KZ earphones with more bass them, but if there are I haven't heard them.
  
 Regarding the ATE, from what I gather I think that they significantly changed their sound over time, as they introduced newer generations of the product with the exact same name. My version, which I believe is the 5th version (the most recent) sounds very spacious, has a decent amount of soundstage and instrument separation and sound very clear without seeming dry. They are currently my favorite KZ earphones in terms of sound quality alone. They sound like a miniaturized version of my Fischer Audio FA-003.


----------



## chickenmoon

griffith said:


> The ED9 between the KZ earphones I have (ATE, ZS3 and ED9) are easily the bassiest. I don't know if there are KZ earphones with more bass them, but if there are I haven't heard them.




ED9 have two pairs of tuning nozzles. Anybody who comments on their sound signature without saying which nozzles are used should be stricken with a stick.


----------



## zabunny94

james freeman said:


> I also remember the ED3c (Acme) were very recommended here, but sounded to me like a a bass bomb puffing my ear canal with air.




Well, i had to admit that initially ed3m sounds as you have described. Turns out that it need a loose seal(not literally loose, just don't give it a tight fit like when you're using a BA iem) to sounds good, like pretty much every dynamic driver iem. After that, it sounds balanced. To give you a picture, it sounds like ed9 with gold nozzle, with slightly less air, more tamed mid bass and warmer vocal. It could be my favorite KZ if it weren't for the barrel shaped housing and unnecessarily long noozle which doesn't go well with many tips


----------



## Griffith

chickenmoon said:


> ED9 have two pairs of tuning nozzles. Anybody who comments on their sound signature without saying which nozzles are used should be stricken with a stick.


 
  
 Sorry, with the default nozzles, the "thinner" ones. The other ones make them sound weird to my ears. It's as if the original sound was stretched and everything became more airy/echo'y. I don't appreciate them as much as the default nozzles.


----------



## ekjn

Sound wise, are there differences between the glossy and matte versions of the ZS3? I see it being described as bassy, but I have the glossy one and it doesn't seem as bassy as some people described it to be. Decent amount of bass but the sub bass doesn't extend that low, even with a good seal.


----------



## Raim1

Which kz earphones should I buy? I'm not a basshead but a little tweak in bass is okay. Looking for wide Soundstage and decent instruments separation.


----------



## Griffith

raim1 said:


> Which kz earphones should I buy? I'm not a basshead but a little tweak in bass is okay. Looking for wide Soundstage and decent instruments separation.


 
  
 The KZ ATE are the KZ earphones with the biggest soundstage out of the ones I own. Perhaps the ZST would also be a good option but someone else will need to confirm that.


----------



## Kerkyboi

Finally received confirmation that my ATR is on its way. Jeez, Barely a month since I paid for it together with the ZST. I just hope they arrive safe and sound like my ZS3. My ED12's are still nowhere to be found.


----------



## doggiemom

kerkyboi said:


> Finally received confirmation that my ATR is on its way. Jeez, Barely a month since I paid for it together with the ZST. I just hope they arrive safe and sound like my ZS3. My ED12's are still nowhere to be found.


Did you order from the official KZ store on Ali? They are really slow with the shipping.


----------



## Kerkyboi

doggiemom said:


> Did you order from the official KZ store on Ali? They are really slow with the shipping.



I wish I did, I ordered my KZ stuff from Gearbest. Had numerous problems with them starting from payment, stock availability, shipping, up to price differences with their mobile app vs desktop page.


----------



## dudinacas

kerkyboi said:


> Gearbest



There's your problem


----------



## doggiemom

kerkyboi said:


> I wish I did, I ordered my KZ stuff from Gearbest. Had numerous problems with them starting from payment, stock availability, shipping, up to price differences with their mobile app vs desktop page.



I'm sorry to hear that. I order from them frequently (TOO frequently, if you ask my husband ) and have never had an issue. Knock on wood......


----------



## BWAS1000

Can anyone say for sure the EDSE and ED2 are the same? I'm wearing my EDSEs right now, and love them, and I'll probably get another pair as backup before I leave 'Murica, but I'm wondering if the ED2 is the same since the price is half


----------



## ricemanhk

griffith said:


> The KZ ATE are the KZ earphones with the biggest soundstage out of the ones I own. Perhaps the ZST would also be a good option but someone else will need to confirm that.


 
  
 ATE (from what I read, as I don't have them) are more neutral.  ZST is a bit more V shaped.  If you need separation I would think the ZST could be better due to the BA.  
  
 Still, these are all relatively cheap, why not try both and then post a comparison review!


----------



## Mus1c

Can somebody tell me impression about the kz zst, kz zs3 and kz atr.


----------



## giocher03

mus1c said:


> Can somebody tell me impression about the kz zst, kz zs3 and kz atr.



Hi, I've ordered the zst and zs3, they should arrive within 10 work days, then I'll try them out

Sent from my Kenzo using Tapatalk


----------



## dudinacas

giocher03 said:


> Hi, I've ordered the zst and zs3, they should arrive within 10 work days, then I'll try them out
> 
> Sent from my Kenzo using Tapatalk



Completely off-topic, but I'd like to know what a Kenzo is.


----------



## khighly

raim1 said:


> Which kz earphones should I buy? I'm not a basshead but a little tweak in bass is okay. Looking for wide Soundstage and decent instruments separation.


 

 ATR's have no sub bass, which is a big downfall, in my opinion. ZST's have huge soundstage, tight well rounded & placed sub bass, but they lean a little on the side of high frequencies. It's a fun sound, but not the flat sound that the ATR's have. I personally would go for the ZST's because of the frequency extentsion. Maybe ask an opinion on the ED9's as I've heard those are quite bassy and good.


----------



## zabunny94

kenzo is xiaomi redmi note 3 or something. those wannabe nerds seems to fond of calling their phone by the code name. it's feels really weird to call my mi4i "Ferrari"


----------



## CoiL

griffith said:


> raim1 said:
> 
> 
> > Which kz earphones should I buy? I'm not a basshead but a little tweak in bass is okay. Looking for wide Soundstage and decent instruments separation.
> ...


 
 I would recommend ATR, they have tight, more prominent and detailed bass than ATE and soundstage width comes more into play than with ATE which soundstage is bigger and has more frontal depth but can sound little too "laid-back" and distant sound for many who haven`t used and experienced big soundstage with great mastering records.


----------



## Vidal

Oops, already answered


----------



## pashhtk27

I was finally able to test the earphones that I got this week from China: KZ ATR, KZ ED7mini, Tennmak Pro. Some initial impressions without tip rolling, with the same small sized tips that come with every other earphone out of my phone Redmi 1s.

 KZ ATR: These are amazing! Out of the three, they feel like they have the most prominent subbass, with a nice rumble. The mids are smooth and vocals feel beautiful. The mids do not seem to be recessed while the highs are present but definitely not forward. Details are there, soundstage is great. These definitely feel like an upgrade over ATE which I haven't heard in a long while. I'll have to compare against the ate with the same tips, but I really really like these with the stock tips. Waiting for the starline tips to arrive for more comfort hopefully before the end of the month.

 Tennmak Pro: These are great too. They are very comfortable, even more than my Vivo Xe800. They also have a nice subbass, but the mids aren't as smooth. They have slightly forward highs than ATR. The detailing is much better, soundstage is good. Overall worth the money, and I hope tip rolling with wide bore tips will open them up a bit more and smoothen the mids.

 KZ ED7mini: I'm feeling slightly disappointed, even though they are not bad. Someone earlier had said that they sound like the ATE, warm with more quantity of bass, and since I don't have bassy earphones I gave this a go. But these are definitely not as bassy as ATR or ATE are. I'll have to roll tips to open them up as they feel closed and congested at the moment, but maybe that's because the earlier two feel so open. Unfortunately they have smaller nozzle so a lot of my 'good' tips won't work on them. Reminds me a bit of the ED3c but I loved those. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I bought these three in hope of getting a bassy, warm and unfatiguing earphone that I can listen to casually for fun. I had low expectation for ATR and was expecting Tennmak to fill that up but the opposite happened.
 I must remind these are just the initial impression, so if anybody's going to take me seriously take me with a grain of salt. Also to note is the fact that I miss my hds3 that nobody likes here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will also receive ZST by the end of the year hopefully. And will probably buy no earphone after that! I hope so!


----------



## BWAS1000

dudinacas said:


> Completely off-topic, but I'd like to know what a Kenzo is.




Its the Xiaomi Redmi Note 3 Pro. Its Codename is Kenzo.



zabunny94 said:


> kenzo is xiaomi redmi note 3 or something. those wannabe nerds seems to fond of calling their phone by the code name. it's feels really weird to call my mi4i "Ferrari"




That's a bit condescending and not exactly the truth. Often times there are different variants of a phone, and you need to use the Codename or model number to differentiate. Like I do believe there's a Redmi Note 3 Pro called Kate as well.


----------



## sharpex

I received from Gearbest my ATR after just 16 days (in Italy) and now looks the ZST, hope again in luck!


----------



## Keller1

It's been nearly 40 days since my gearbest order for the ZS3 and ED12. I seem to be having better luck with random ebay sellers than with gearbest.


----------



## Vidal

I got the Senzer H1 today, really good for the money. Plenty of bass with detailed highs.
  
 I haven't heard the Cello so I can't say they're the same earphone but the sound is close to the description others have used about the Cello. Not had the problem with the eartips but I did notice a small hole on the nozzle, could this be the issue that others are having?


----------



## toddy0191

vidal said:


> I got the Senzer H1 today, really good for the money. Plenty of bass with detailed highs.
> 
> I haven't heard the Cello so I can't say they're the same earphone but the sound is close to the description others have used about the Cello. Not had the problem with the eartips but I did notice a small hole on the nozzle, could this be the issue that others are having?




There's one one the cellos too and if it's covered you get driver flex. My senzers are on the way and I'm confident they're at least the same housing; that's obvious. Not sure about internals and the wire looks different, plus you get a case with the cellos but not sure that justifies the price difference unless the drivers are different.


----------



## doggiemom

I received the ATEs this week. Is there any way to tell which version these are? Thanks!


----------



## fatct

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-KZ-Cable-0-75mm-2-Pin-Upgraded-Plated-Silver-Cable-2-PIN-Upgrade-Cable-Ues/32731735090.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.aOhqmX&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_427_10073_10103_10102_10096_10052_10050_10051-10052,searchweb201603_1&btsid=59c75798-ad1b-4efa-a73f-164d4c6ed6ae

 so this silver cable cannot fit into KZ ZST ??
  
 but this says is for KZ ZST 

 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZST-Earphone-Cable-1-2M-Plated-Silver-Earphone-Cable-0-75MM-2-pin-DIY-Upgrade/32758017891.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.9.TtQ9pj&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_427_10073_10103_10102_10096_10052_10050_10051,searchweb201603_1&btsid=c63ade58-ac46-47ab-93ef-d40608487e8f
  
 I'm confuse


----------



## ricemanhk

fatct said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-KZ-Cable-0-75mm-2-Pin-Upgraded-Plated-Silver-Cable-2-PIN-Upgrade-Cable-Ues/32731735090.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.aOhqmX&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_427_10073_10103_10102_10096_10052_10050_10051-10052,searchweb201603_1&btsid=59c75798-ad1b-4efa-a73f-164d4c6ed6ae
> 
> so this silver cable cannot fit into KZ ZST ??
> 
> ...


 
  
 It can technically fit, but it will be quite loose and not really useable.  This wire with straight housing is only for the ZS3.
 The ZST wire housing is an angled one.


----------



## To.M

Why confused, the description clearly states which cable is for which model, so the second link is for ZST and it is a very good price!


----------



## fatct

Okay thanks for the help


----------



## CoiL

doggiemom said:


> I received the ATEs this week. Is there any way to tell which version these are? Thanks!


 
 If You can see through the housings, try to look if driver shells are red or blue. If they are red, and lower nozzle part has tiny vent holes, then they are probably latest 5th gen ATE.
 And if You look at my older post, then seems You have same coded latest ATE as I do: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/13920#post_13053179


----------



## Mus1c

CoiL hey coil what is your current kz do use right now and what is your favorite kz.


----------



## CoiL

mus1c said:


> @CoiL hey coil what is your current kz do use right now and what is your favorite kz.


 
 Check my profile. But do note that my listing is purely subjective and only with my gear, music and sound preferences.
 But to make it easy, in stock unmodified confition - ATE 5th gen comes first due to large airy spacious soundstage and very closely after that ATR. In modified confition - ATE FF-mod (2nd gen) followed by ATR TH-mod.
 I haven`t modded my 5th gen ATE yet cuz I have other IEM`s coming in and other development going on...


----------



## Mus1c

coil said:


> Check my profile. But do note that my listing is purely subjective and only with my gear, music and sound preferences.
> But to make it easy, in stock unmodified confition - ATE 5th gen comes first due to large airy spacious soundstage and very closely after that ATR. In modified confition - ATE FF-mod (2nd gen) followed by ATR TH-mod.
> I haven`t modded my 5th gen ATE yet cuz I have other IEM`s coming in and other development going on...


 firtsly...damn you have a lot to put work man cuz i mean youra teacher you must been busy right and your do a lot of thing like modding stuff, how do you have time to be an audiophile? And how you spent time for it.


----------



## CoiL

mus1c said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Check my profile. But do note that my listing is purely subjective and only with my gear, music and sound preferences.
> ...


 
 I really don`t know LOL ;D ....and add a soon-to-be reality fact that I`m becoming father soon  
 What comes to modding and such I`m mostly putting my "audiophile" energy into one certain project lately but I can`t talk about it yet.


----------



## Mus1c

coil said:


> I really don`t know LOL ;D ....and add a soon-to-be reality fact that I`m becoming father soon
> What comes to modding and such I`m mostly putting my "audiophile" energy into one certain project lately but I can`t talk about it yet.


 congrats man! for becoming father soon.hey im curious about how did you know about modding stuff and went did you start learn it?.


----------



## dudinacas

bwas1000 said:


> Its the Xiaomi Redmi Note 3 Pro. Its Codename is Kenzo.


 
 Thanks


----------



## BWAS1000

Going to order the ED2 ($4.99) and EDR2($5.52) off eBay soon to compare to the EDSE. If these are all the same then oh man


----------



## Joong

Qkz is a brand of Kz?


----------



## ricemanhk

to.m said:


> Why confused, the description clearly states which cable is for which model, so the second link is for ZST and it is a very good price!


 
  
 The picture in the 2nd link is the same as the first link which is the cable for the ZS3, NOT the cable for ZST.  That's why he was confused.  ZST cables will NOT fit into ZS3, while the ZS3 cable will be quite loose on the ZST.  The diameter of the pins are the same, but the housing of the module is a different size between the 2.


----------



## killerbond

Sorry if these question have been asked (and properly answered as well) 
 1. Does the silver cable of the ZST improve the sound quality? If yes, is that noticeable or just a very very small difference?
 2. In which case should I "upgrade" the ZST with the silver cable?
 3. It (the silver cable) comes with NO built-in microphone, am I correct? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mus1c

CoiL hey coil do you know how to fix kz ate the 2th gen version. the right ear has some problem to the cable 
cuz went i yank the right one it still sounding but is no dead and don't know how to fix, i search on google... nothing appears to fix the cable.


----------



## CoiL

mus1c said:


> @CoiL hey coil do you know how to fix kz ate the 2th gen version. the right ear has some problem to the cable
> cuz went i yank the right one it still sounding but is no dead and don't know how to fix, i search on google... nothing appears to fix the cable.


 
 Check thread picture gallery how to open ATE/ATR housings.


----------



## ricemanhk

killerbond said:


> Sorry if these question have been asked (and properly answered as well)
> 1. Does the silver cable of the ZST improve the sound quality? If yes, is that noticeable or just a very very small difference?
> 2. In which case should I "upgrade" the ZST with the silver cable?
> 3. It (the silver cable) comes with NO built-in microphone, am I correct?
> ...


 
  
 1. Impedance difference on my stock cable is 1.5ohms, while the silver is 1.2ohms. To my ears the silver cable seems slightly brighter, but I would chalk that up to placebo effect as it takes a bit of time to swap the cables so I wouldn't say the A-B testing is ideal.
 2. Some have mentioned their stock cables reaching 2-3ohms, if your stock cable is that high I suggest to get another cable or the silver one.  Otherwise the differences between the 2 are marginal at best.
 3. Correct, no microphone.  Stock cable also has plain version vs mic version.  The mic version only has 1 button that works on both android and iOS, but there's no volume control.
  
 I personally prefer the physical feel of the stock cable, as it's TPU plastic wrapped around the wires, and I do use the mic as well.  The silver is a typical braid of 4 wires with no additional wrap on top of the braid.


----------



## CoiL

ricemanhk said:


> 1. Impedance difference on my stock cable is 1.5ohms, while the silver is 1.2ohms. To my ears the silver cable seems slightly brighter, but I would chalk that up to placebo effect as it takes a bit of time to swap the cables so I wouldn't say the A-B testing is ideal.


 
 even 1.2 Ohm impedance is very high for IEM cable. That`s why I usually tell to be careful with those AE and other webshops cheap "silver" (only plated anyway) cables. Proper HQ copper can be way better with lower impedance.
 Between 1.2 and 1.5 there probably isn`t difference in sound but when You take proper good quality cable around 0.7 ohm or lower, then difference against 1.5 Ohm cable should be pretty easily noticeable (depends on IEM driver impedance and source gear though, not all IEM`s show difference). 
 Cable over 0.8 Ohm translates for me as bad quality cable but in certain applications (like **** 4in1) high impedance cable can be useful.


----------



## ricemanhk

coil said:


> even 1.2 Ohm impedance is very high for IEM cable. That`s why I usually tell to be careful with those AE and other webshops cheap "silver" (only plated anyway) cables. Proper HQ copper can be way better with lower impedance.
> Between 1.2 and 1.5 there probably isn`t difference in sound but when You take proper good quality cable around 0.7 ohm or lower, then difference against 1.5 Ohm cable should be pretty easily noticeable (depends on IEM driver impedance and source gear though, not all IEM`s show difference).
> Cable over 0.8 Ohm translates for me as bad quality cable but in certain applications (like **** 4in1) high impedance cable can be useful.


 
  
 I checked the cable for my UE TF 10, also got 1.1-1.2ohms.  So I checked the impedance of my voltmeter electrodes directly i.e. just the red and black handles themselves and got 0.4ohms.  So I guess if I subtract the 0.4, we get ~1.1ohms for the stock and 0.8ohms for the silver upgrade for the KZ cables.
  
 I would say for such a short length, even though these are for IEMs the impedance shouldn't be a major issue. 
  
 FWIW I also saw some upgrade cables for shure IEMs listing 1.5ohms for the wire.


----------



## CoiL

ricemanhk said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > even 1.2 Ohm impedance is very high for IEM cable. That`s why I usually tell to be careful with those AE and other webshops cheap "silver" (only plated anyway) cables. Proper HQ copper can be way better with lower impedance.
> ...


 
 Are You sure Your multimeter doesn`t take multimeter wires into account? Af far as I know, some multimeters with their bundled measuring leads are already taken into account when showing result on screen (calibrated accordingly), so You don`t have to subtract anything from results You get. I might be mistaken about this though.
  
 Sorry for OT.


----------



## ricemanhk

coil said:


> Are You sure Your multimeter doesn`t take multimeter wires into account? Af far as I know, some multimeters with their bundled measuring leads are already taken into account when showing result on screen (calibrated accordingly), so You don`t have to subtract anything from results You get. I might be mistaken about this though.
> 
> Sorry for OT.


 
  
 Well that's why I checked the impedance of the measuring leads directly, and it still showed 0.4ohms.  Oh well it's not an expensive meter, I just use it mainly to check battery voltages...haha
  
 Anyway the main point is the wires for my UE triplefi 10s have the same impedance as the KZ ZST and ZS3 silver wires, so the upgrade silver cables are pretty decent and the stock cables aren't too bad either.


----------



## Keller1

Got the ED12 and ZS3. I might actually like the ED12 more.
  
 Either way, both a leap backwards from the ZST.
  
  
  
*Edit:* Okay, i've adjusted. The ZS3 Slams with authority and is extremely forgiving to bad recordings.
 The ED12 is just a ZST that sucks.
  
 The ZS3 has this slightly veiled muddy presence in the recording, which i find very offputting after listening to the ZST. The ED12 does not, which is why my initial response was anti-ZS3. It's like having turned up the bass in the EQ Settings. The Slam however is excellent. They also have the memory wire, which is very annoyng to get used to.
  
 Otherwise, the seal is excellent but they're somewhat uncomfortable after only ~20 mins of use. Maybe i turned them wrong? 
  
 That being said, the ZST remains king in my book. The soundstage is large and airy, the seperation is outstanding and the detail is excellent. It doesnt have that slam the ZS3 has.
  

 All-in-all: even though i probably wont be using the ZS3 myself, it has gotten me more hyped about the ZSR, the ED12 just looks real neat but sounds sub-par for a KZ IEM.


----------



## hakuzen

my measures on kz zs3 cables (with "specialized" digital multimeter for low resistances):
 stock: 0.84Ω
 silver plated: 0.65Ω


----------



## James Freeman

hakuzen said:


> my measures on kz zs3 cables (with "specialized" digital multimeter for low resistances):
> stock: 0.84Ω
> silver plated: 0.65Ω


 
 It's the *Knowledge* Zenith thread, so here's some:

 18ohm nominal DC resistance of the KZ ZS3.
  
 (18.84-18.65)/18.84*100 = 1.00% difference in resistance.
  
 Lets calculate the Power we gain over the new resistance at 1V:
 1^2/18.84 = 0.05307 W
 1^2/18.65 = 0.05317 W
 dW = 0.00012 Watts of additional power with the new silver cable.
  
 Lets calculate how much dB you gain with the additional power using this tool: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-amplification.htm
 Gain in dB between 1 Watt and 1.00012 Watt:  0.000521 dB
  
 We gained a whole whopping 0.000521 dB with the new Silver cable.
 1dB is roughly the smallest change in dB a human can detect, hence 1/0.0005 = 2000 times smaller change than we can detect.
  
 Just sayin'....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 
  
 EDIT:
 The difference between 1.5 and 0.6 ohm cable with 18ohm IEMs is 0.01 dB, nothing anyone would hear.
 And NO, there is no change in frequency or transient response.


----------



## zabunny94

james freeman said:


> It's the *Knowledge* Zenith thread, so here's some:
> 
> 
> 18ohm nominal DC resistance of the KZ ZS3.
> ...




Maybe those people really have "golden" ears...

Idk, but most of cable believer seems to believe that there's something in sound other than sonic vibration which said can't be measured with modern measuring tools. But the reality is of course our modern tools can detect even the most subtle change in FR curve if there's any.


----------



## danspy

ricemanhk said:


> Well that's why I checked the impedance of the measuring leads directly, and it still showed 0.4ohms.  Oh well it's not an expensive meter, I just use it mainly to check battery voltages...haha
> 
> Anyway the main point is the wires for my UE triplefi 10s have the same impedance as the KZ ZST and ZS3 silver wires, so the upgrade silver cables are pretty decent and the stock cables aren't too bad either.


 
 Sorry but You only Measure the DC Resistance with a Standard Multimeter, AC Resistance is much more Complex and changes with Frequency.
  
 By the way I just listen to my newly arrived HDSE Bluetooth KZ,s with the stock tips the have very forward Sounding Mids but with some Sonyhybrids the Calm down a bit. The Bass is awesome for a Bluetooth Headset, just the High,s missing a bit Sparkle.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i tot the zst cable socket housing is "straight" or flat..
 the zs3 is "staggered" ...or stepped??
 i posted a foto a few pages prior.
  

 ZS3... uneven "stepped" 
  
  
 ===============
  
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html?wid=21
 price creeping up.... dun let it run away.


----------



## doggiemom

lorspeaker said:


> i tot the zst cable socket housing is "straight" or flat..
> the zs3 is "staggered" ...or stepped??
> i posted a foto a few pages prior.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh my goodness, I am over 40 so am not quite sure what you are saying, but I think I get the idea.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Fortunately, I have a new hire at work who is almost 20 years my junior and is teaching me how people speak now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It would be very difficult to tell from the pictures on Ali whether a cable is for the ZS3 or the ZST.  The difference is best seen by looking at the connectors on the IEMs.  The sockets on the ZS3 stick out more, whereas the sockets for the ZSTs are flush with the plastic receptacle.  I hope this picture helps.


----------



## killerbond

lorspeaker said:


> i tot the zst cable socket housing is "straight" or flat..
> the zs3 is "staggered" ...or stepped??
> i posted a foto a few pages prior.
> 
> ...


 
 damn it was 11.xx yesterday  the price is going up guys ...


----------



## hoerlurar

gearbest often have things on sale, so they'll probably return to sale-prices in a while...


----------



## hoerlurar

danspy said:


> Sorry but You only Measure the DC Resistance with a Standard Multimeter, AC Resistance is much more Complex and changes with Frequency.
> 
> By the way I just listen to my newly arrived HDSE Bluetooth KZ,s with the stock tips the have very forward Sounding Mids but with some Sonyhybrids the Calm down a bit. The Bass is awesome for a Bluetooth Headset, just the High,s missing a bit Sparkle.


 
  
 yeah, measuring things doesn't need to be that hard. measuring the right and relevant things correct, and knowing that your equipment and method is correct is often the tricky part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i also own KZ HDSE, but i don't like them very much. too dark sounding to me. they sound like cheap earphones to me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i prefer qcy qy19 for bluetooth iem.
 the HDSE i would only use if i need something wireless. the qcy qy19 gets ear time even if wireless isn't necessary


----------



## 21emon

Anyone, I just bought kz zs3 about two days ago but now one of the mmxc pin is bended coz the left earbud was pressed accidentaly pressed when I sleep while I still using it. Now everytime I plug in the earbud to the cable, it just plug off again so easily and this condition effect the audio quality too that make the sound unstabily on and off..

So can I repair the pin cable with DIY method or I must replace and buy the new one? Thank you


----------



## chinmie

hoerlurar said:


> i prefer qcy qy19 for bluetooth iem.
> the HDSE i would only use if i need something wireless. the qcy qy19 gets ear time even if wireless isn't necessary




i haven't heard the HDSE, but i can vouch for the QY19. it is a great sounding iem that it is my most used at home and outside, adding the fact that it is very convenient to use


----------



## Shawn71

21emon said:


> Anyone, I just bought kz zs3 about two days ago but now one of the mmxc pin is bended coz the left earbud was pressed accidentaly pressed when I sleep while I still using it. Now everytime I plug in the earbud to the cable, it just plug off again so easily and this condition effect the audio quality too that make the sound unstabily on and off..
> 
> So can I repair the pin cable with DIY method or I must replace and buy the new one? Thank you




It looks like the 2 pins are not so parallel as its supposed to be.......try aligning the 2 pins straight keeping aside the other channel as reference and see? Also take a look @ the earpiece female socket whther it went little deep inside.


----------



## khighly

Nat King Cole - The Christmas Song

 Absolutely wonderful presentation in the ZST's. Great soundstage, great reverb, fun & accurate bass, everything just sounds excellent. I feel in the ATR's the midbass is a little too forward, but other than that the characteristics are similar. ZST has a slightly larger soundstage.

 Bing Crosby - Winter Wonderland (2006 Remaster)
  
 Excellent soundstage with the ZST's. You can pick out exactly where each section of the orchestra is.

 Walking around Seattle today feeling a little festive


----------



## danspy

hoerlurar said:


> yeah, measuring things doesn't need to be that hard. measuring the right and relevant things correct, and knowing that your equipment and method is correct is often the tricky part
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Ye the ZST with the Avantree Clipper Sound,s a bit better.
  
 I am a bit of a bass head, after 27 years of Hi Fi on Concert Level the Upper Mid,s and Lower Height,s get pretty annoying at times.


----------



## killerbond

khighly said:


> Nat King Cole - The Christmas Song
> 
> Absolutely wonderful presentation in the ZST's. Great soundstage, great reverb, fun & accurate bass, everything just sounds excellent. I feel in the ATR's the midbass is a little too forward, but other than that the characteristics are similar. ZST has a slightly larger soundstage.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm going to buy the ZST tonight. Any suggestion about the songs should I be listen with while "testing" them?


----------



## Ruben123

james freeman said:


> It's the *Knowledge* Zenith thread, so here's some:
> 
> 
> 18ohm nominal DC resistance of the KZ ZS3.
> ...




I'm not sure but i thought one adds the cable resistance to the amplifier's output resistance, not to the earphone's resistance. Even then you need or a relatively high amp output imp or a high cable resistance or extremely low earphone imps.


----------



## Ruben123

killerbond said:


> I'm going to buy the ZST tonight. Any suggestion about the songs should I be listen with while "testing" them?


 songs you like?


----------



## khighly

ruben123 said:


> songs you like?


 

 Yep. That's my suggestion! Lol.


----------



## killerbond

ruben123 said:


> songs you like?


 
 lol yeah definitely. I mean is there any song that will [somehow] point out the weakness or maybe even the fault of the product [in this case ZST]. I'm sorry 'cause I didn't get all the ideas in this thread about the Cons and Pros of the ZST so ... just asked for a quick noticeable notes before buying them.


----------



## khighly

killerbond said:


> lol yeah definitely. I mean is there any song that will [somehow] point out the weakness or maybe even the fault of the product [in this case ZST]. I'm sorry 'cause I didn't get all the ideas in this thread about the Cons and Pros of the ZST so ... just asked for a quick noticeable notes before buying them.


 

 The flaw is that the level of detail is so high that stuff that was recorded poorly, sounds very poor. My favorite band is Incubus but they just sound terrible. Jazz sounds excellent. All of this Christmas Jazz I'm listening to today on spotify is absolutely wonderful. Detailed, recorded properly.


----------



## Lorspeaker

killerbond said:


> lol yeah definitely. I mean is there any song that will [somehow] point out the weakness or maybe even the fault of the product [in this case ZST]. I'm sorry 'cause I didn't get all the ideas in this thread about the Cons and Pros of the ZST so ... just asked for a quick noticeable notes before buying them.


 
  
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Copland-Fanfare-Common-Appalachian-Symphony/dp/B00004UDEQ
  
 the first song...the fanfare...i use it to test the lower register for realism.
 If a headfone or iem cant reproduce the bass power n rumble of this piece,
 or plays it in a TIN-ny manner...it is disqualified.
  
 many many cans failed this...many.


----------



## Mus1c

Is kz zs3 perfect for edm genre?


----------



## rockingthearies

mus1c said:


> Is kz zs3 perfect for edm genre?



Yes its v shaped. Recessed mids unless you enjoy listening to vocals in EDM. If not ZS3 is a very good for edm.


----------



## bartzky

The HDS3 - IMO the best KZ so far. Other measurements for comparison: http://headflux.de/messungen/ And my full review in German: http://headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-hds3/


----------



## DikZak

Thank you!
Nice pictures btw 

Plans to review the ZST?


----------



## bartzky

Already ordered the ZST a while ago but it still remains to arrive


----------



## chaiyuta

james freeman said:


> It's the *Knowledge* Zenith thread, so here's some:
> 
> 18ohm nominal DC resistance of the KZ ZS3.
> 
> ...


 
 I think that the way you decide which cable could bring better sound by only impedance parameter may not a correct direction. There are impedance adapters (20, 75, 100, 150Ohm, etc.) in aftermarket and people bought them in order to reduce floor noise, pairing their earphones with a matching amplifier to make superior sound quality, spatial sound stage, etc. as well.


----------



## hoerlurar

i'm not sure why the hds3 isn't popular around here. i like the hds1, but haven't tried the hds3. maybe the hds2 ruined the reputation for the hds-series?
  
 do you have any plans for an english review? My very basic german understanding might not be enough for understanding the review
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (even though i had top grades from the german class in school, when i studied german as third language in my 7th-9th year at school, 15 years ago...)
 there's many german words that are similar in swedish as well, but i guess google translate would have to help me if you don't plan to review it in english as well.


----------



## bartzky

dikzak said:


> Thank you!
> Nice pictures btw
> 
> Plans to review the ZST?



Well, that's timing  Guess what has just arrived:





hoerlurar said:


> i'm not sure why the hds3 isn't popular around here. i like the hds1, but haven't tried the hds3. maybe the hds2 ruined the reputation for the hds-series?
> 
> do you have any plans for an english review? My very basic german understanding might not be enough for understanding the review (even though i had top grades from the german class in school, when i studied german as third language in my 7th-9th year at school, 15 years ago...)
> there's many german words that are similar in swedish as well, but i guess google translate would have to help me if you don't plan to review it in english as well.



The HDS3 is not as bass-heavy as many other KZs - maybe that's a reason?

I will see if I can find the time to translate the review. I'm afraid I can't promise anything because I still have to review a lot of gear...


----------



## hoerlurar

many people are appreciating the ed9 with the balanced nozzles, so i'm not sure that everyone who likes KZ is bass-loving creatures? The hds1 is appreciated by several of us here, even though it isn't as popular as the ed9/zs3/ate/atr in this thread.
  
 Most of the review work is already done, yes? So maybe an english version doesn't have to be very time-consuming


----------



## loomisjohnson

hoerlurar said:


> i'm not sure why the hds3 isn't popular around here. i like the hds1, but haven't tried the hds3. maybe the hds2 ruined the reputation for the hds-series?
> 
> do you have any plans for an english review? My very basic german understanding might not be enough for understanding the review
> 
> ...


 

 i'd like to see the hds3 review in english as well--i'm another of its rare fans.


----------



## pashhtk27

I loved the hds3! Good to see there are other people who love it too. Warm, intimate yet clear with vocals.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bartzky said:


> The HDS3 -* IMO the best KZ so far. O*ther measurements for comparison: http://headflux.de/messungen/ And my full review in German: http://headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-hds3/


 
  
 That's not a statement I would have expected to see directed towards the HDS3. I too would love to see your review converted to English at some point if possible. Admittedly I'm not a fan of the HDS3's sound, but I do like everything else.The HDS3 started off on the wrong foot with some terrible QC issues, so it's awesome to see a less popular model get it's due!


----------



## squallkiercosa

Hey guys, did anyone tried shortening the nozzles or remove the outer nozzle ring for comfort purposes? any luck?


----------



## danny93

My KZ ZS3's arrived a couple hours ago...so happy with them, highly recommend! Bass is great...was worried that it wouldn't have enough for my tastes...but it definitely does! Got a good seal with the default tips after inserting a few times as I am new to the CIEM technique and so happy. Massive shout out @Vidal for the help and sale http://www.aproear.co.uk/


----------



## Shawn71

squallkiercosa said:


> Hey guys, did anyone tried shortening the nozzles or remove the outer nozzle ring for comfort purposes? any luck?




For AT'X' series?.......


----------



## squallkiercosa

shawn71 said:


> For AT'X' series?.......


 
 Yes, I forgot to add that little detail. ATR 
  
 And which female mmcx connector you guys used?


----------



## Shawn71

squallkiercosa said:


> Yes, I forgot to add that little detail. ATR
> 
> And which female mmcx connector you guys used?




The regular mmcx ones (shure's) will do......but may be coil cld tell where exactly he bought. Ali can be as cheap as under $1.


----------



## danspy

Yes i did take the ring of one of my atr and ate,s because the super small (RED) of my Sony-hybrids were Looking more cone shaped den rounded on them.
 And it made no perceivable difference to my ears.


----------



## Raim1

I'm confused between Kz ate and kz zs1. Which one has better bass and soundstage?


----------



## Raim1

coil said:


> I would recommend ATR, they have tight, more prominent and detailed bass than ATE and soundstage width comes more into play than with ATE which soundstage is bigger and has more frontal depth but can sound little too "laid-back" and distant sound for many who haven`t used and experienced big soundstage with great mastering records.




How do Atr compare with kz Ed9 and kz zs1, in terms of bass and soundstage?


----------



## bartzky

b9scrambler said:


> That's not a statement I would have expected to see directed towards the HDS3. I too would love to see your review converted to English at some point if possible. Admittedly I'm not a fan of the HDS3's sound, but I do like everything else.The HDS3 started off on the wrong foot with some terrible QC issues, so it's awesome to see a less popular KZ get it's due!



Okay you guys convinced me to translate the review


----------



## danspy

The ZST has more Bass and More Heights, and therefore sounds much better then the ATR which i dont like Because of the sterile sound compared to the ATE.


----------



## bartzky

Just received, already measured the ZST 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  As always you can find the other measurements for reference by following this link: http://headflux.de/messungen/


----------



## VShaft

coil said:


> If You can see through the housings, try to look if driver shells are red or blue. If they are red, and lower nozzle part has tiny vent holes, then they are probably latest 5th gen ATE.
> And if You look at my older post, then seems You have same coded latest ATE as I do: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/13920#post_13053179


 
  
 For what is worth, your description also seems to describe my ATE-S. Red driver shells as well as lower nozzle vent holes, also the same model number on the shells. Perhaps the ATE-S and 5th gen ATE are the same, except the cable differences.


----------



## VShaft

coil said:


> If You can see through the housings, try to look if driver shells are red or blue. If they are red, and lower nozzle part has tiny vent holes, then they are probably latest 5th gen ATE.
> And if You look at my older post, then seems You have same coded latest ATE as I do: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/13920#post_13053179


 
  
 For what is worth, your description also seems to describe my ATE-S. Red driver shells as well as lower nozzle vent holes, also the same model number on the shells. Perhaps the ATE-S and 5th gen ATE are the same, except the cable differences.
  
 EDIT: Double post, sorry.


----------



## 21emon

shawn71 said:


> It looks like the 2 pins are not so parallel as its supposed to be.......try aligning the 2 pins straight keeping aside the other channel as reference and see? Also take a look @ the earpiece female socket whther it went little deep inside.




Thanks for the reply dude
I was trying and I think the female socket is already touching last line of the cable same as the right earbud's position minus that bended pin. Seems I must correct the pin first and try that again.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Just got my ZS3
 I have never hated a cable more... WHAT THE ****!
  
 How am I supposed to store these? How am I supposed to shove them in and walk to school?
  
 The memory wire makes everything SO awkward i almost feel like shoving them in my droor like the ZN1 and carry on using ATE
  
 It takes me a long time to get a good seal because of the memory wire pulling them out of my ears
  
 They literally can't sit in my ears properly because all the memory wire does is make impossible to sit correctly
  
 100% most awkward things ever
  
 Solutions anyone?????


----------



## Griffith

maggotbasshead said:


> Just got my ZS3
> I have never hated a cable more... WHAT THE ****!
> 
> How am I supposed to store these? How am I supposed to shove them in and walk to school?
> ...


 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS3-Dedicated-Cable-0-75mm-2-Pin-Upgraded-Plated-Silver-Cable-2-PIN-Upgrade-Cable/32776533749.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.10.RSYVeH&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_427_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10050_10051,searchweb201603_2&btsid=758b1fa1-cb73-4ce5-a7e6-e475c605914b
  
 On another note, I also find them annoying until I managed to set them in the shape that suits my ears. Since then, it's been pretty effortless to get them on and they haven't bothered me immensely.


----------



## Griffith

So, two things, I received one of my orders from Gearbest for three earphones, two of which were KZ ones, the KZ ATR and the KZ ZS1.
  
 First things first, they both are good sounding earphones that rival the ZS3. The ZS1 feels like you are wrapped in a blanked of warm bass but it doesn't muddy up details, it just makes everything sound fuller whereas the ATR provides a more intimate but still warm-sounding listening experience.
  
 Having listened to the KZ ATE and the ATR for a few hours, and recalling the comments some people made here about the ATR being a natural upgrade over the ATE I'd like to say I respectfully disagree. I think the ATE's sound signature is significantly different from the ATR's and they provide some sound features that are better than the ATR's, specifically their soundstage and imaging. Also because the sub bass is not as pronounced as on the ATR, it's easier to discern smaller details on songs, particularly noticeable on live recordings.
  
 I think that for the money the ATR is a better purchase than the ATE in terms of value, but I don't think they are a superior earphone to the KZ ATE, they offer a different type of sound but I can understand why a lot of people would prefer them over the ATE as they have a warmer signature.


----------



## hoerlurar

maggotbasshead said:


> Just got my ZS3
> I have never hated a cable more... WHAT THE ****!
> 
> How am I supposed to store these? How am I supposed to shove them in and walk to school?
> ...


 

 I didn't get a good seal, and felt uncomfortable with the zs3 as well, but i bought rounded foam-tips and that helped me!
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-1-Pairs-2pcs-Noise-Isolating-Memory-Foam-C-sets-5mm-Comply-T400-Ear-Tips-For/32723318227.html
 (I bought from another seller first, but have a couple more on a slow boat from china that i ordered from this seller)


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Do you know if the upgraded cables have the memory wire?


----------



## ricemanhk

maggotbasshead said:


> Do you know if the upgraded cables have the memory wire?


 
  
 ZS3 stock and upgraded silver cable both have memory wire.  IIRC someone on this thread said they managed to take it out, but I asked and still no answer to how.
  
 ZST stock and upgraded silver cable no memory wire.  The shop did send me silicone-ish ear guides for free though, which works well but I rather just use the plain wires, better aesthetics


----------



## danspy

griffith said:


> So, two things, I received one of my orders from Gearbest for three earphones, two of which were KZ ones, the KZ ATR and the KZ ZS1.
> 
> First things first, they both are good sounding earphones that rival the ZS3. The ZS1 feels like you are wrapped in a blanked of warm bass but it doesn't muddy up details, it just makes everything sound fuller whereas the ATR provides a more intimate but still warm-sounding listening experience.
> 
> ...




You got it turned the rong way the ATE is the one with the more prominent Bass.


----------



## chickenmoon

ricemanhk said:


> ZS3 stock and upgraded silver cable both have memory wire.  IIRC someone on this thread said they managed to take it out, but I asked and still no answer to how.




I just did it, not very difficult but not sure it's so much better now as I still need to wear the wire over ear and now need a clip to hold both cables together under the chin otherwise they don't stay in place...

All you need to do is rip the coating with something and then cut the metal wire off.


----------



## ricemanhk

chickenmoon said:


> I just did it, not very difficult but not sure it's so much better now as I still need to wear the wire over ear and now need a clip to hold both cables together under the chin otherwise they don't stay in place...
> 
> All you need to do is rip the coating with something and then cut the metal wire off.


 
 Ah, I thought there was a way to get the wire out WITHOUT damaging the coating.  With the stock cable I think that's fine, but with the silver braided cable I think having the coating would provide better comfort.


----------



## chickenmoon

ricemanhk said:


> Ah, I thought there was a way to get the wire out WITHOUT damaging the coating.  With the stock cable I think that's fine, but with the silver braided cable I think having the coating would provide better comfort.




I've now idea about the silver cable as I don't have one but for the stock one there is no other way and of course the audio cables don't get damaged in any way if carefully done.

ZS3 is rather nice actually and quite a huge change in signature from the Superlux HD381F I received this morning and have been listening to all day.


----------



## doggiemom

chickenmoon said:


> I've now idea about the silver cable as I don't have one but for the stock one there is no other way and of course the audio cables don't get damaged in any way if carefully done.
> 
> ZS3 is rather nice actually and quite a huge change in signature from the Superlux HD381F I received this morning and have been listening to all day.


 

 The Superlux are really nice!


----------



## chickenmoon

doggiemom said:


> The Superlux are really nice!




They sure are, a must buy for audiophiles on a budget IMO.


----------



## Griffith

danspy said:


> You got it turned the rong way the ATE is the one with the more prominent Bass.




Not to my ears, but I'm talking about the 5th generation KZ ATE. I don't know how the previous generations fared in terms of bass but from the way people talk they sounded different to the current version.


----------



## danspy

I had 2 off the ATR and the both sounded like Am radio. 

Noting like the ATE 5thGen. Or the ATE-S.


----------



## Nyzen

Hello all, i'm french and i wanted to know what heardphone have the best sound quality (i like all style of music) between the KZ ZST, the KZ ZS3 and the Rock Zircon Nano.
 Thanks you so much for yours answers and sorry if i don't speak english very well.


----------



## ricemanhk

nyzen said:


> Hello all, i'm french and i wanted to know what heardphone have the best sound quality (i like all style of music) between the KZ ZST, the KZ ZS3 and the Rock Zircon Nano.
> Thanks you so much for yours answers and sorry if i don't speak english very well.


 
 I haven't tried the Zircon.  Between the ZST and ZS3, for a broad variety of music I would choose ZST.  ZS3 works better with bass heavy tracks.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

My ZST's and ED12's finally came in, after touring through the Uk for a while... 

Once I swapped over to the included small starline tips (as the mediums would actually slowly work themselves out of my ears!) man are they comfy... And really nice for listening to Harsh EBM as well as DnB... Not to mention rock. Here's hoping they'll be the magical pair that gets me to actually like IEM's ^_^


Oh, the ED12's? They're still wrapped in the box, had too much fun with the ZST's.


----------



## rikk009

Which comply tips fits ZST? OR should I stick with the Starline tips?


----------



## ricemanhk

rikk009 said:


> Which comply tips fits ZST? OR should I stick with the Starline tips?


 
  
 Starline tips work perfectly for me, the seal is really good.  The KZ foam tips are useless, there's no plastic insert inside the bore, so the tips tend to just slip right off the earbud, and can stay dangerously stuck in your ear canal.
  
 I believe the T400 comply tips will work, I've ordered some myself to try anyway.


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

Hi, I've been reading good things about the KZ ZST's and the Superlux 381F IEM's. 
 I already have a pair of Xiaomi Piston 3's and would like to upgrade. Are either of these a great improvement, or should I raise my Budget? 
 Thanks. (If not, I have some DAPs on my radar. I need to save some money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## ricemanhk

guywholikeshifi said:


> Hi, I've been reading good things about the KZ ZST's and the Superlux 381F IEM's.
> I already have a pair of Xiaomi Piston 3's and would like to upgrade. Are either of these a great improvement, or should I raise my Budget?
> Thanks. (If not, I have some DAPs on my radar. I need to save some money.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Buying directly, the ZST is actually similar price to the Piston 3 and 4 (launch prices) and cheaper than the Piston 5.  I love the ZST over my Piston 5.
 Piston 3 is a relatively neutral IEM, it's been a while since I've listened to them but I do remember I prefer the 5 over the 3, ergo the ZST beats the 3.
 Only downside to ZST is the single button mic on the stock cable (and none on the silver cable), so no volume controls on your Android phone.  They are also the overear cable kind, which is more difficult to put in and take out of your ear compared to the Pistons, so if you do that alot then get "normal" earbud shaped IEMs like pistons or superlux.
  
 Haven't heard the superlux, but others here say good things.
  
 These IEMs are all relatively efficient, so will work well with most smartphones already.  IMO if you are going to carry something extra like a DAP, might as well get a portable DAC+AMP which can deliver even more power and help drive bigger headphones as well.


----------



## CoiL

griffith said:


> So, two things, I received one of my orders from Gearbest for three earphones, two of which were KZ ones, the KZ ATR and the KZ ZS1.
> 
> First things first, they both are good sounding earphones that rival the ZS3. The ZS1 feels like you are wrapped in a blanked of warm bass but it doesn't muddy up details, it just makes everything sound fuller whereas the ATR provides a more intimate but still warm-sounding listening experience.
> 
> ...


 
 Agree.
  


danspy said:


> You got it turned the rong way the ATE is the one with the more prominent Bass.


 
 No! He is correct. ATR has more prominent bass.


----------



## chickenmoon

guywholikeshifi said:


> Hi, I've been reading good things about the KZ ZST's and the Superlux 381F IEM's.
> I already have a pair of Xiaomi Piston 3's and would like to upgrade. Are either of these a great improvement, or should I raise my Budget?
> Thanks. (If not, I have some DAPs on my radar. I need to save some money.  )




I don't have any Pistons so can't comment on them. Between ZST and HD381F I prefer the latter. ZST has got a valley at 5k and a peak at 10k which make them sound not bright but sibilant which I find unnatural sounding, I don't like them. HD381F is the flatest sounding IEM I have with perhaps a very mild linear lift in the highs. It is very detailed across the whole spectrum (without becoming analytical however), I absolutely love it and I think it's incredible value for the less than £10 it goes for on Gearbest.


----------



## To.M

ZST sibilant??? Maybe I am half deaf but I beg to differ


----------



## ricemanhk

Yeah, I also have yet to hear ANY sibilant notes in the ZST.  Sound on the bright side yes (but less bright than xiaomi pistons gen 5), but no sibilance in any of my songs.  Indeed the almost sparkling highs is one reason why I love them.  It's a fun sound but still fairly well controlled so you don't feel it's a strong V.  There was a curve posted here earlier, it's W shaped really but still relatively flat.  I'm not a big fan of comparing freq curves for IEMs though, as your ear canal is part of the sound chamber and everyone's ears are different.


----------



## danspy

coil said:


> Agree.
> 
> No! He is correct. ATR has more prominent bass.


 
 Then both off my ATR must be defective.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tho the ware from the same Store.


----------



## squallkiercosa

ricemanhk said:


> ZS3 stock and upgraded silver cable both have memory wire.  IIRC someone on this thread said they managed to take it out, but I asked and still no answer to how.
> 
> ZST stock and upgraded silver cable no memory wire.  The shop did send me silicone-ish ear guides for free though, which works well but I rather just use the plain wires, better aesthetics


 
 I removed the memory wire from my ZS3, but because the wire connectors sticks too much (far from the ear) the behind the ear design does not the job very well keeping the earpiece in the ear. Carefully with scissors I managed to remove the sheath.


----------



## Lorspeaker

no sibilance on my zst n setup too.


----------



## Keller1

ZST reveals bad recordings. That's why we might consider them sibilant.


----------



## ricemanhk

A bad sibilant recording will be sibilant on most earbuds, but a bad earbud will be sibilant on all recordings.  I would assume posters here generally do not have bad recordings.  With the relatively poor level of QC at KZ, a poorly made ZST could be a more likely culprit.  Or the poster has a very particular ear canal shape/sound preference.
  
 My ZS3 right earbud stock wire housing was too loose, the silver cable worked better but still on the loose side.  Thankfully my ZSTs are all good.


----------



## Saoshyant

Is anyone having an issue with the ZST cable staying over ear?  I might have to dig out some ear guides at this rate as the left one won't stay put.  My other option is if the silver cable is more inclined to not move about.


----------



## chickenmoon

bartzky said:


> Just received, already measured the ZST    As always you can find the other measurements for reference by following this link: http://headflux.de/messungen/




Well, what I hear is exactly what's illustrated on that graph. 

Boosted 10k band = airyness & sibilance


----------



## ricemanhk

Airyness yes, but sibilance is when certain sounds (especially S sounds in vocals) become harsh, almost resonant and is very piercing/tiring to the ears.  That 10k peak isn't much higher than the 2k-4k peak, and also the low end bass.
  
 On a side note, I have trouble believing the lack of bass fall off on that chart.  There's bass on the ZST and it's nice bass too, but it's not THAT deep.  I played some 20-30hz tones and they are definitely very soft.  Like I said, the way freq curves are measured for IEMs is only indicative and everyone's curve would be different since our ear canals play a role in the sound chamber. Freq curves for headphones, however, are much more accurate.


----------



## Ruben123

ricemanhk said:


> Airyness yes, but sibilance is when certain sounds (especially S sounds in vocals) become harsh, almost resonant and is very piercing/tiring to the ears.  That 10k peak isn't much higher than the 2k-4k peak, and also the low end bass.
> 
> On a side note, I have trouble believing the lack of bass fall off on that chart.  There's bass on the ZST and it's nice bass too, but it's not THAT deep.  I played some 20-30hz tones and they are definitely very soft.  Like I said, the way freq curves are measured for IEMs is only indicative and everyone's curve would be different since our ear canals play a role in the sound chamber. Freq curves for headphones, however, are much more accurate.


 

 20Hz is barely audible, so yes, not strange you didnt hear it good.


----------



## ricemanhk

saoshyant said:


> Is anyone having an issue with the ZST cable staying over ear?  I might have to dig out some ear guides at this rate as the left one won't stay put.  My other option is if the silver cable is more inclined to not move about.


 
 Mine works well enough, but I'm going to try the silicone earguides tomorrow, seems will be even more comfy. 
  
 The ZST silver cable also doesn't have memory wire, but I would say the rebound rate is slightly less (i.e. a bit more malleable) than the stock cable as it's a braided wire, so it could be better for you.


----------



## ricemanhk

ruben123 said:


> 20Hz is barely audible, so yes, not strange you didnt hear it good.


 
  
 Of course I'm comparing it to my other IEMs/headphones.  The falloff on low frequencies isn't as bad on my UE TF10s for instance.


----------



## killerbond

Got my ZST yesterday. They are good, not excellent but very decent earphones. Definitely recommend in this range of bucks.
 The treble is very detailed and bright (a little *too *bright for me ^^). The bass is kinda good but not as I expected (I'm a bass-head I suppose).
 I'm not sure about burn-in method but will try to see if it can help improve the bass as well as the overall sound.
  
 Any suggestion about:
 1. List of burn-in songs (especially to improve the BASS - although I don't think it would help much)
 2. Another earphones with *strong *bass and *warm *sound (KZ ZS*/AT* series, Xiaomi Hybrid PRO HD, Sony sth30, etc. ?)
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Griffith

killerbond said:


> Got my ZST yesterday. They are good, not excellent but very decent earphones. Definitely recommend in this range of bucks.
> The treble is very detailed and bright (a little *too *bright for me ^^). The bass is kinda good but not as I expected (I'm a bass-head I suppose).
> I'm not sure about burn-in method but will try to see if it can help improve the bass as well as the overall sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the most popular KZ bassy earphones are the KZ ZS3 and ED9 but give the ZS1 a try... I was surprisingly pleased by them.


----------



## dudinacas

Anyone know about the KZ HD9? It's in the same section as the KZ ATE/s/R on Aliexpress.


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

chickenmoon said:


> I don't have any Pistons so can't comment on them. Between ZST and HD381F I prefer the latter. ZST has got a valley at 5k and a peak at 10k which make them sound not bright but sibilant which I find unnatural sounding, I don't like them. HD381F is the flatest sounding IEM I have with perhaps a very mild linear lift in the highs. It is very detailed across the whole spectrum (without becoming analytical however), I absolutely love it and I think it's incredible value for the less than £10 it goes for on Gearbest.


 
 Alright, I think I'll go with the Superlux. A flatter response is what I want. Thanks.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Pulled all the metal wire out of the top of the ZS3
I highly recommend it and it's not very hard to do
Took me 5 or 10 minutes and they can now wire comfortably in my ears


----------



## B9Scrambler

They must have updated the ZS3's cable or something because mine does not have memory wire, just a preformed ear guide.


----------



## BWAS1000

This thread is a bad influence


----------



## bhazard

Ha. If that ZST Pro 5 driver ever comes out and is a success, expect more of a bad influence.


----------



## To.M

BWAS1000 16usd for KZ EDR2 ?!?  Or 3 pairs of them?


----------



## BWAS1000

bhazard said:


> Ha. If that ZST Pro 5 driver ever comes out and is a success, expect more of a bad influence.




Since I got the EDSE and liked the fit, I'm starting with those with the same Housing. Maybe they're all the same, maybe they're different but all sound good, I don't know. After the EDR2 and HDS3 I'm going to try the ED2 and the RX. 


Spoiler: Tangent



I love music, and unlike a lot of people in this forum, I don't need the best fidelity. If it sounds good, and I can enjoy it, then I'd be happy. Music enhances my life, its rarely ever my main focus. So IEMs like this? Cheap enough to share with friends and get them upgraded


----------



## ricemanhk

You kinda just WISH they would come out with something bad so we could stop...but we would all still probably buy them "just to be sure"


----------



## BWAS1000

ricemanhk said:


> You kinda just WISH they would come out with something bad so we could stop...but we would all still probably buy them "just to be sure"




Yup, that's exactly it. I even got my friend in on it. We were gonna buy some OnePlus Bullets v2, but they were out of stock. So I told him we should try the EDSE. After loving the EDSE, I showed him other KZ IEMs, he said he wanted an HDS3 (He doesn't have his EDSE yet, I do). I decided I'd try the EDR2. I'm Interested in trying those with similar and simpler housingsfirst, because until very recently I wasn't very tolerant to IEMs (MEElec M9s, using tips from another IEM for the best seal, which isn't comfy for long)


----------



## killerbond

griffith said:


> I think the most popular KZ bassy earphones are the KZ ZS3 and ED9 but give the ZS1 a try... I was surprisingly pleased by them.


 
 I discovered that If I push my ZST a little more inside my ears, the bass will definitely increase and improve. I think the design is quite not fit perfectly for me, sadly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I really want to try the ZS3 and ZS1 but their forms are similar (not very but same same) with the ZST. Should I go for a ED9? Are they warm and have strong bass?


----------



## ayao

killerbond said:


> Should I go for a ED9? Are they warm and have strong bass?


 
 If you're looking for a warm and bassy signature, I cannot recommend the ED9. I lost the shiny filters, but I remember the signature being more V-shaped, whereas the duller (now moldy) filters make them REALLY bass-light (less than the TWFK-equipped VC1000). However, my ED9 was purchased well over a year ago before the black ED9 was released, so I don't know if there have been any changes since.
  
 The ZS1 is very warm and bassy, but I can't guarantee you'll like the fit. I get a really good fit with the ZST every time, but the ZS1 falls out of my ears quite often. I hate the memory cable, which the ZN1 mini doesn't have, but the fit is still shallower than the ZST for me.


----------



## CoiL

danspy said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Agree.
> ...


 
 Idk. Maybe You have some kind of mismatch with source gear or have different preferences about sound signature.
 Maybe You mix up prominent with more bass.Idk.


----------



## Shawn71

ricemanhk said:


> ZS3 stock and upgraded silver cable both have memory wire.  IIRC someone on this thread said they managed to take it out, but I asked and still no answer to how.
> 
> ZST stock and upgraded silver cable no memory wire.  The shop did send me silicone-ish ear guides for free though, which works well but I rather just use the plain wires, better aesthetics




May be you are referring me coz I was the one who first ripped off the mem thin wire of my zs3 last week or so......my bad I didnt notice your query since I was more off than in here lately since then or might've overlooked.

Ok so yeah, I found the end of the metal wire very close to the other end of the heat shrink tubing(main ends at 2 pin plastic). I get hold of the metal wire end using my nails,unearthed and managed to rip off,till the end of the plastic connector and cut the wire. 

Remember Theres another layer of tubing under the outer heat-shrink tubing,so basically the mem thin wire is protected with 2 layers of tube that you are ripping off. 

The cable guide comes handy from falling off, when you're'nt stationary,like walk,jog etc. Ymmv.......

Mind you,this is ir-reversible......for those who are happy with the stock form,just keep using it as you are now and to those who are annoyed with the mem wire just be careful when you rip-off,coz you might damage the cable itself in the process,especially when using sharp tools like art knife,paur of scissors etc. GL!


----------



## iQuest

coil said:


> danspy said:
> 
> 
> > coil said:
> ...


 
 i can confirm aswell that my ATE's are bassier than ATR's ... we are talking about previously released batch of ATE's not sure which exactly tho... not about newest you call 5th generation ones


----------



## CoiL

Then You are probably talking about 3rd gen ATE with cosed port holes or ATE-S (which some have said to be bassier than regular ATE).


----------



## Highspeedfreak

My ZST arrived today! EDR2 ATE and ZS3 still on the way.


 I will post some pics and impressions later today.


----------



## hoerlurar

gah!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I just ordered a pair of KZ HDS3 from gearbest, since they are only $4.49 right now... http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436716.html
 also ordered a blue HDS1 with mic, since my yellow version lacks a mic...
 (the black ED9 is $8.99 right now and ZS3 $7.89, so there's several KZ iem to be had for a good price
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## danspy

Hi.
  
 Today i got the Silver Cable for the ZST, it bring more Clarity and at the same time it takes away a bit of sharpness.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 I forgot to say that i Use the ZST with the small ATR-ATE tips, because the Starlines don't seal right in my ears.


----------



## James Freeman

> Today i got the Silver Cable for the ZST, it bring more Clarity and at the same time it takes away a bit of sharpness.


----------



## Ruben123

james freeman said:


>


 

 Lol, I hear you my friend. Im expecting the Walnut V2 wav/mp3 player anytime soon which should have an incredible sound quality, at only $26. Though its output imp is 100 ohms (didnt know it when I ordered). It sure will alter the sound of some earphones, much better investment than some cables lol


----------



## ShadowR

Hi guys, 

I ordered 4 sets of earphones from KZ

KZ ATR
KZ ED12
KZ ZS3
KZ ZST

Today I recieved the ATR and the ED12. Quite impressed with the ATR. The ED12 on the other hand... What on earth, something very wrong there, sounds like a 5c set of earphones from n lucky packet. I really hope the ZS3 and ZST will impress. I find my Sound magic E10 to be better compared to the ATR but I'm still testing. 

ATR feels a bit empty to me but I believe with the EQ I can improve it. 

BTW first post 

Edit: seems the issue with the ED12 was that the jack does not work well plugged all the way in, sounds right now but it's still not great.


----------



## loomisjohnson

hoerlurar said:


> gah!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 the hds3 have traditionally been shunned by the kz community, though i've observed a few fans coming forward of late. i've always dug 'em--they're not precision instruments but hyper-energetic and fun; i often find myself reaching for them over some of my $100 sets. at $4.49 they'll do you a lot more good than another beer.


----------



## Shinry

I was so hyped for the ZST, but they just don't fit my ears.... They fall out very easily (tried different tips) and the angled Cable hurts my ear because when I get decent fit it applies pressure to it.
  
 Very sad because I actually like the sound. But I still have the ZS3 to listen music with.


----------



## Shawn71

The zs3 cable fits my tf10 like a glove......there is a change in the sound definitely but not in a positive note,as I type.So need to spend some time and revert if something interesting in change from any front.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

So , i am new here and i am reading here for a few days , First i like to thank you for your review that made me deside to buy me a couple of KZ plugs.  
  
 Small intro .. Jeroen , 45 from the Netherlands. Audiofool .. like to built speakers.  proffesional  salesman in .....audio.  I am familliar with the european brands like Senheisser , AKG . Bayer Dynamics and Focal .. 
  
 With a crowdy family and not many moments to enjoy my tube amp powered Focal speakers i searched for a solution to listen to my "rapshody/Napster "music account and since my Galaxy S7 edge has a Napster app , i can listen to all my music using a headphone .. Problem solved ..  not realy .. I was not enjoying my Samsung plugs and tried several other plugs that came with a phone . Non of them were able to fire me up and i was not going to pay a lot of money for a set of high Q plugs without listen to them first .. I ended up with 30 euro Sony set and the did sound better but still i was not very impressed .. than i found this forum .. I quickly found out that KZ was a brand to give a try and i ordered a set on DX and after 3 weeks the set knocked on my door. 
  
 So i own a set of KZ ZST now for 4 days and i am realy impressed.  I tried several music styles like Slash , Nora Jones and Yello .. nobody kan wipe that smile from my face .. again i am realy impressed .. now i can enjoy my music again. i am sure the set need some break in time and the might open up a bit but they sound like a 80 euros set and i find that impressive. 
  
 One downside , i believe my Galaxy S7 Edge is not able to power them up well . sound is great but the volume is just a bit tame . i treid them on my tube headphone preamp and that was SO much better .. again this forum is to blame that i found info about the portable headphone amps and  after some days of reading i desided to treat my self on a small X mas gift and i ordered the Fiio A3 . 
 this little beast will arrive tomorrow and i hope that this will improve the sound and volume a bit .. 
 If wanted , i can make a review as well .. I ordered an extra set ZST and ATR as well .just as a back up .. 
  
 Tips and tricks wanted for my setup, please share. 
  
 Jeroen


----------



## Shawn71

Otoh the tf10- fiio rc-ue1 cable fits partially and doesnt go thru its full length in zs3.......reason being the plastic part (2 pin) touches the iem body immediately say 2/3 mm insertion into the sockets. 

But if needed the plastic can be trimmed in such a way to accomodate,but it might not be as the original fit to tf10.


----------



## Brian Coffey

@Jeroen Pasman Welcome to Head-Fi !


----------



## macky112

macky112 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> reading through this thread again makes me wanna go on a shopping spree.
> 
> ...


 
 can someone please help clarify?


----------



## To.M

Jeroen Pasman welcome to the KZ club man!


----------



## khighly

james freeman said:


>


 

 I feel you. Hah.


----------



## inevitableso

Any news about this?  10 driver IEM


----------



## DikZak

Jeroen PasmanWelkom bij de club.
Be careful it's addicting to find a real gem. I bought the ATR, VivoEX800 and Senzer H1 and still want to taste the ZST to 

--

After some more listening I find the ATR missing life and bass still to prominent. For the $4 amazing SQ but not my taste. I am missing some sparkle. Have to say, male vocals on it are very good.


----------



## BWAS1000

dikzak said:


> Jeroen PasmanWelkom bij de club.
> *Be careful it's addicting to find a real gem.* I bought the ATR, VivoEX800 and Senzer H1 and still want to taste the ZST to
> 
> --
> ...




Every IEM I've owned was a real gem. Its the only way I'll use them over full size cans.

So far thats the 8320, the Philips SHE3590, the MEElec M9 and the KZ EDSE. Lets hope the EDR2 is another gem. I ordered 3. Keep 1, sell 1, gift 1 maybe?


----------



## Highspeedfreak

Been listening for a few hours. Been trying different kinds of music. 

 Loreena McKennitt (Celtic)
 Daft Punk (Electronic)
 Descend (Death Metal)
 Mumford & Sons (Folk Rock)
 Anathema (Alternative Rock)
 Dire Straits (Rock)
 A Perfect Circle (Alternative Rock)
 Glen Hansard (Folk)

 All .FLAC

 Source: Lenovo laptop, Samsung Galaxy S4, Cowon Iaudio portable player and Hi-Fi-reciever.

 I like the ZST. Compared to stuff for ten times the price the SQ is obviously not as good. But still. For the $14 I got them for they are ridiculous IMHO. 
 With a good seal there is sufficient bass. What I do not like about the sound is higher up. Frequencys as female focals can sound irritating at times. 
 They guy who tuned the sound probably likes cymbals. 

 I really like them. Can't wait for the others. 

 This is just from a few hours of listening. We'll see if i change my mind in the future.


----------



## danspy

ruben123 said:


> Lol, I hear you my friend. Im expecting the Walnut V2 wav/mp3 player anytime soon which should have an incredible sound quality, at only $26. Though its output imp is 100 ohms (didnt know it when I ordered). It sure will alter the sound of some earphones, much better investment than some cables lol


 
 Yes i like a bit of output impedance to.
  
 My Creative X-Fi HD has 33 of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and i like its sound more than the one of my sterile sounding 10Ohm Xonar Essense ST.
  
 Witch i like better on the Speaker out with its 100Ohm,s.


----------



## khighly

ATE's sound better than the ATR in my opinion, but the compromise is soundstage. The ATE's soundstage is not nearly as wide but it's definitely there. The ATE's sound much more flat and have a high end as well. ATE's are brighter than the ATR's and they pull back some of the very forward mid bass that the ATR's have. The ATE's bass is more muddy and slow than the ATR's for sure, but there is more bass extension.
  
 ATE > ATR


----------



## ricemanhk

jeroen pasman said:


> So , i am new here and i am reading here for a few days , First i like to thank you for your review that made me deside to buy me a couple of KZ plugs.
> 
> Small intro .. Jeroen , 45 from the Netherlands. Audiofool .. like to built speakers.  proffesional  salesman in .....audio.  I am familliar with the european brands like Senheisser , AKG . Bayer Dynamics and Focal ..
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome!
  
 I actually don't have volume issues with the ZSTs on my xiaomi mi5 smartphone, I only use about 50-60% of the volume setting playing flac files through google play music.  I'm surprised the S7E doesn't have more power as traditionally Samsung galaxies have decent headphone out (although I think that's changed over the years after the S4).
  
 If you are getting a portable headphone amp though, I would suggest getting a DAC+amp combo like the Fiio Q1 or E17K rather than just amplifying the headphone out on your S7E.  You'll hear alot more detail with a dedicated DAC, and they will shine even more with hi-res flac files.


----------



## ricemanhk

highspeedfreak said:


> Been listening for a few hours. Been trying different kinds of music.
> 
> Loreena McKennitt (Celtic)
> Daft Punk (Electronic)
> ...


 
  
 ZSTs are indeed on the bright side, but I find the treble well controlled, indeed it's less sibilant and tiring than some other IEMs I've had before.  Perhaps you are used to listening to a darker sound, give the ZSTs a few days to get used to the sound signature and you might find "brain burn-in" to work in your favor.


----------



## ricemanhk

bossunswitch3 said:


> Any news about this?  10 driver IEM


 
  
 Still no news yet, nothing I could find online either in Chinese.  Last time I checked, KZ customer service didn't deny its existence, but there's no confirmed release date yet.  Expect sometime in 2017...I'm pretty sure this thread will be one of the first places to find out!


----------



## inevitableso

@ricemanhk what is the best KZ headphones so far? I'm planning to by the KZ ZST (Candy edition) i currently have ATE


----------



## ricemanhk

bossunswitch3 said:


> @ricemanhk what is the best KZ headphones so far? I'm planning to by the KZ ZST (Candy edition) i currently have ATE


 
  
 I haven't tried them all......yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I only have the ZS3 and ZST right now.  From my own impressions and others here:
 ATE - best neutral sounding KZ, fantastic value for money
 ZS3 (and maybe ED9) - best for bass head
 ZST - first hybrid from KZ, fun W shaped sound
  
 I prefer the ZST over the ZS3 for my tastes in music (vocal, classical, jazz).  I also like the ZST over my xiaomi pistons gen 5 (pro HD) and gen 3.  Gen 4 bass was a little too muddy for me, and the ZS3 bass beats that.


----------



## inevitableso

ricemanhk said:


> I haven't tried them all......yet :rolleyes:
> 
> I only have the ZS3 and ZST right now.  From my own impressions and others here:
> ATE - best neutral sounding KZ, fantastic value for money
> ...




Thanks dude.. I'll go with ZST is it worth uprgading it's cable to silver?


----------



## ricemanhk

bossunswitch3 said:


> Thanks dude.. I'll go with ZST is it worth uprgading it's cable to silver?


 
  
 The stock cable is fine, and I got the mic version as I use it mostly with my phone.  The only thing I wish for would be android volume controls as well...
 From earlier posts, I've measured the impedance between the 2 wires, and the difference is very minor, about 0.4ohms lower with the silver cable.  To my ears the silver cable sounds slightly brighter but I would chalk this up more to placebo effect as it takes a little while to swap cables.  I'm also of the camp that believes cables don't matter as long as it's good enough.
  
 That said, if it's not that much more to get silver cable as a bundle then might as well get it as a backup cable and save a bit on shipping.  I also think the silver cable is easier to untangle, as the plastic sheath on the stock one is a little more "sticky" than the silver one.  But I still use the stock as the silver cable doesn't have the mic.


----------



## killerbond

> Originally Posted by *macky112*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 1.


khighly said:


> ATE's sound better than the ATR in my opinion, but the compromise is soundstage. The ATE's soundstage is not nearly as wide but it's definitely there. The ATE's sound much more flat and have a high end as well. ATE's are brighter than the ATR's and they pull back some of the very forward mid bass that the ATR's have. The ATE's bass is more muddy and slow than the ATR's for sure, but there is more bass extension.
> 
> ATE > ATR


 
  
 2...
 3...

 anyone can help @macky112?


----------



## Shawn71

TF10 cable w/ zs3........


----------



## khighly

What's a good <$75 range IEM that has similar characterists to the ZST?


----------



## Saoshyant

@ricemanhk One more amusing comment about the ATE.  It can withstand a silly amount of bass boost, pushing it to true basshead levels.  If you don't mind some heavy EQ, it's an entry level basshead IEM.


----------



## Ruben123

Guys please.... I've read it about a thousand times here now, the beauty of the ed9 does not lie in the golden filters which are somewhat bassy, it lies in the brass filters which give an enormously exciting, natural and life-like sound with great detail. That is what the edö is about. It's one of the best kzs and together with the hds1, the most neutral one. If you all keep on mentioning that it's bassy, no one will find their true potentials


----------



## Shawn71

ruben123 said:


> Guys please.... I've read it about a thousand times here now, the beauty of the ed9 does not lie in the golden filters which are somewhat bassy, it lies in the brass filters which give an enormously exciting, natural and life-like sound with great detail. That is what the edö is about. It's one of the best kzs and together with the hds1, the most neutral one. If you all keep on mentioning that it's bassy, no one will find their true potentials




To add........Not only ed9 a wonderful sound gem but its build quality too is worth mentioning.......the cable,the shells,the filters and the 3.5mm jack, all very well withstand to some heavy usages too.the brass one may be cleaned once in a while but thats just its natural characteristics of it and un-avoidable.


----------



## Shawn71

The zs3's red fabric mesh in the nozzle has a damper too......anyone wants to do diy the sound can experiment.


----------



## Lorspeaker

My zst sounded crap on youtube song vids...
But amazing on my new...xduoooo ...x10 dap..w lossless files.


And home amp


----------



## ricemanhk

lorspeaker said:


> My zst sounded crap on youtube song vids...
> But amazing on my new...xduoooo ...x10 dap..w lossless files.
> 
> 
> And home amp


 
  
 Yes, the ZST is very revealing of low bit-rate or poorly mastered files.  The hallmark of a good earphone.


----------



## Lorspeaker

http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598797.html?wid=21
  
 colored zst now avail at gearbest   16.99 w mic


----------



## SomeTechNoob

lorspeaker said:


> http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598797.html?wid=21
> 
> colored zst now avail at gearbest   16.99 w mic


 
 Yessss finally!
  
 err.... now I gotta wait for a flash sale price lol.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

For 10 bucks and the zst classic at 7 dollars


----------



## James Freeman

Here some nice article about output impedance and how it interacts with headphones: http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.il/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html


----------



## Shawn71

sometechnoob said:


> Yessss finally!
> 
> err.... now I gotta wait for a flash sale price lol.




Ha ha ha yeah,that cld start saturday.......


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

Thank you all for the warm welcome , I realy like to read all your reviews and foundings. 
  
 Today the brown truck just passed my house but i wasnt there so the Fiio A3 will be deliverd tommorow. I will try this amp during X mass and will write my foundings here. 
  
 Meanwhile i have brought the ZST set to my office and my fellow salesmen were intrested and i "sold" the story during a listening sesion where 6 audio heads were getting overwhelmed by the sound quality and the were all hiding their Dr dre and JBL plugs. the ZST set was so much better and i left for a coffee brake leaving six guys fighting over my ZST set for another listen moment on their phones.. needles to say that i wasnt requested but ordered to get them ALL a ZST set ...  i think the KZ battle is just begon in our office ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Keep you updated. 
  
 Jeroen


----------



## Shawn71

khighly said:


> What's a good <$75 range IEM that has similar characterists to the ZST?




PMV A-01 mk2, a triple hybrid is what hit me......... But I tried neither of them socant really comment. you can check the impressions/reviews to see if it matches what you lookin for.


----------



## loomisjohnson

ruben123 said:


> Guys please.... I've read it about a thousand times here now, the beauty of the ed9 does not lie in the golden filters which are somewhat bassy, it lies in the brass filters which give an enormously exciting, natural and life-like sound with great detail. That is what the edö is about. It's one of the best kzs and together with the hds1, the most neutral one. If you all keep on mentioning that it's bassy, no one will find their true potentials


 

 we all hear things differently, but i'm a little surprised that people consider the ed9 (gold filter) to be basshead--its lowend is definitely north of neutral, but not exaggerated. the ed10 and zs3, to name a couple, have deeper and more impactful bass than the ed9


----------



## Shawn71

loomisjohnson said:


> we all hear things differently, but i'm a little surprised that people consider the ed9 (gold filter) to be basshead--its lowend is definitely north of neutral, but not exaggerated. the ed10 and zs3, to name a couple, have deeper and more impactful bass than the ed9




Exactly my thoughts........ Bass of ed9's are right amount and zs3's so much powerful and energetic but wont spoil the rest of the spectrum.I infact love the quality of zs3 basss (gamer's rejoice) which many of budget dynamic iems even might not possess of this kind,imo. I wish I d see some comparisons against tfz series 1/3/5 bass (12mm drivers?) shared by someone here.


----------



## BWAS1000

to.m said:


> BWAS1000 16usd for KZ EDR2 ?!?  Or 3 pairs of them?




I forgot if I answered this, but its 3 pairs. I had a coupon for $25 on eBay and I couldn't send to two separate addresses, so I got 3 pairs.


Also guys, does GearBest ship everything in one package like Amazon, or is it one per seller like eBay?


----------



## To.M

Ok, thanx for calming me down!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

bwas1000 said:


> I forgot if I answered this, but its E pairs. I had a coupon for $25 on eBay and I couldn't send to two separate addresses, so I got 3 pairs.
> 
> 
> Also guys, does GearBest ship everything in one package like Amazon, or is it one per seller like eBay?




Usually everything in one package. If something is oos then they sometimes split it up.


----------



## BWAS1000

sometechnoob said:


> Usually everything in one package. If something is oos then they sometimes split it up.




Works out for me. Since after I leave 'Murica I'll have to pay customs per package, so having one KZ Care package works out for me. I want to try all of those with the EDSE look first, so my Gearbest order will likely have the EDR1 in it. I won't get the HDS3 since my buddy is getting one, and I won't need it. Aside from the EDR1, what should I get?


----------



## macky112

lorspeaker said:


> http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598797.html?wid=21
> 
> colored zst now avail at gearbest   16.99 w mic


 
 is there any difference between the black ZST and the colored ZST?


----------



## dudinacas

macky112 said:


> is there any difference between the black ZST and the colored ZST?



No.


----------



## To.M

Most probably they should sound the same, but nothing is certain in the audio world, you know


----------



## Griffith

macky112 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> reading through this thread again makes me wanna go on a shopping spree.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. ATE is much more neutral sounding, has more clarity and better soundstage and instrument separation. The ATR sounds kind of similar to the ZS3. There are differences but they are within the same ballpark or type of sound.
 2. I'm not sure. The ZS1 sounds like a ZS3 with a wider soundstage and wider bass. Most music sounds like you are inside a room and the bass reverberating around you, it's quite a unique and fun sound though not one I'd want to use/experience all the time. If you like the ZS3, I think you'd like the ZS1, that's fair to say.
 3. I don't have the ZST yet but from what I've seen of opinions, the graphs posted of the frequency response they would sound warmer than the Xiaomi Hybrid, about as bassy as the ZS3, or maybe slightly less, and better details on the highs than the ZS3. But this is all anecdotal. I can only give a proper answer when I receive them and test them for myself.


----------



## pashhtk27

I received starline tips today, and put them on the kz atr. Using the small sized ones, they allow me to have a tight deep insertion and loose shallow insertion. And to my surprise, there is major difference in sound characteristics. With shallow insertion, instrument separation is clearer, soundstage feels wider and overall the sound is more neutral. With deeper insertion, bass is more prominent, mids are warmer but more congested. Isolation is significantly better with deeper insertion. With these tips, I feel like I have two earphones instead of one. 

 So maybe the difference in opinion about atr is due to insertion, as ate with whirlwind tips would fit somewhere in between (from memory)

 PS: Zst have reached my country, but it'll take about a week more for me to have them. Slow parcel service here. :')


----------



## BWAS1000

So what do you guys think? For my next purchase of KZ


----------



## kaiteck

bwas1000 said:


> So what do you guys think? For my next purchase of KZ


 
 u bought too much HAHA


----------



## BWAS1000

kaiteck said:


> u bought too much HAHA




I didn't place the order yet. Wanted to make sure I wasn't making a bad decision xD


----------



## B9Scrambler

bwas1000 said:


> So what do you guys think? For my next purchase of KZ


 
  
 I say keep the ATR and ED4 (unique and fun as heck), but swap the EDR1 for the EDR2.


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> I say keep the ATR and ED4 (unique and fun as heck), but swap the EDR1 for the EDR2.




I already ordered 3 pairs of the EDR2 xD (Why 3? I was gonna do 2 HDS3 and 2 EDR2, but they only had 1 HDS3, and I needed to make up $25. I'll keep one, sell one, and either gift or sell the 3rd)

So not the EDR2, what else you guys have in mind?
What IS the difference anyway? Between the EDSE, ED2, EDR2 and EDR1. Thats the whole reason I bought the EDR2 xD


----------



## Joong

anybody does compare kz zs1 with xiaomi hybrid pro hd with respect to bass quantity?


----------



## hoerlurar

bwas1000 said:


> So what do you guys think? For my next purchase of KZ


 
 I like ATR, i didn't like the ED4 at first, but when i changed to foam tips i think they became ok/good. i usually use them for commuting, since they seem to do better there than some of my other earphones.
 don't know the EDR1, but i like the EDR2.
 my recent purchases from gearbest includes the KZ ZST and HDS3, neither have arrived yet. I've also ordered a remax S1 since they interested me and they were cheap enough...


----------



## B9Scrambler

bwas1000 said:


> I already ordered 3 pairs of the EDR2 xD (Why 3? I was gonna do 2 HDS3 and 2 EDR2, but they only had 1 HDS3, and I needed to make up $25. I'll keep one, sell one, and either gift or sell the 3rd)
> 
> So not the EDR2, what else you guys have in mind?
> What IS the difference anyway? Between the EDSE, ED2, EDR2 and EDR1. Thats the whole reason I bought the EDR2 xD




Gotcha. Maybe the RX? It's an older model but it is very good. Sounds like a more vibrant and lively ED3c. Cable is nice too.


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> Gotcha. Maybe the RX? It's an older model but it is very good. Sounds like a more vibrant and lively ED3c. Cable is nice too.





I don't see it on GearBest. I want to try it, but if its not on GearBest it will have to wait.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bwas1000 said:


> I don't see it on GearBest. I want to try it, but if its not on GearBest it will have to wait.




Go for the ED3c (ED3m) on Gearbest. It's a good product.


----------



## squallkiercosa

loomisjohnson said:


> we all hear things differently, but i'm a little surprised that people consider the ed9 (gold filter) to be basshead--its lowend is definitely north of neutral, but not exaggerated. the ed10 and zs3, to name a couple, have deeper and more impactful bass than the ed9


 
 I read so many unthinkable things around head-fi that now I'm skeptical with pretty much everything people say. Still a good reference place, all the KZ I managed to listen surprised me.


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> Go for the ED3c (ED3m) on Gearbest. It's a good product.




I'll replace the ED4 with that then, or replace the EDR1?


----------



## B9Scrambler

bwas1000 said:


> I'll replace the ED4 with that then, or replace the EDR1?


 
  
 From what was said back in the day (i.e. near when this thread first started), the EDR1 and EDse (which I see you have) sounded the same or  at least very similar. If that's true, no need to get the EDR1. Keep the ED4 and go for the ED3c/m. ED4 and ED3c are pretty different, so you'll get a unique listen from each. ED4 is hyper-aggressive (imo) and the ED3c warm, mellow, and laid back.


----------



## kaiteck

b9scrambler said:


> I say keep the ATR and ED4 (unique and fun as heck), but swap the EDR1 for the EDR2.


 
 +1 Keep the ATR.


----------



## khighly

I got my Tennmak Pro's. I've been listening for around 10 hours now.

 They are very balanced, but just a little bit bass/mid bass heavy. They are clear and accurate. Highs are reserved but detailed. I'm having trouble finding a soundstage though.
  
 To me, the sound signature is more neutral and all around better than both the KZ ATE & ATR, but the ATR's have a giant soundstage where the Tennmak Pro's leave more to be desired.


----------



## VinceHill24

KZ has discontinued their current HDSE model production and now in the midst of development of a newer version, just in case anyone might be interested in their bluetooth earphones.

Still curiously waiting for news on the KZ ZSR though. Hope it'll be early next year.


----------



## Vidal

bwas1000 said:


> I don't see it on GearBest. I want to try it, but if its not on GearBest it will have to wait.


 
  
 Pretty sure I have a pair here that I've not been able to sell, if you'll pay for the postage I'll send them to you.


----------



## rikk009

Got ZST today. Paid for priority service and got it in 8 days. It came to my next city in just 4 days but Gati decided to take a 4 day break. Ordered a ZS3 back in Sep but that never reached any further than the customs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyway, after a few hours of burnin I didn't notice any change. I can say that these are nice pair of IEMs for the price. The bass is not much, highs are ok(edit:there is a little peak at 8-10k, the S-splash), doesn't extend that well but we are talking about a sub $10 IEM here. The thing that bothered me is the mids, it sounds thin. Vocals are at times sound distant. Not my fav signature. Soundstage is decent and separation is good. Overall a good VFM. I stopped investing in IEMs after Senn IE80 since my ear canals are not symmetrical and I struggle for a fit. That could be a problem that I am not hearing things that people here are. I don't have the silver cable but I am vary of investing any more in this. This is my first KZ, my brother has ATR (and he likes it). I haven't heard it yet. Maybe will get a chance to listen and compare it in recent future. 
  
 From memory, I can relate it to Xiaomi Piston 3.0 which was decent fit and comfortable to wear and I didn't have anything against Pistons albeit the bass which might be similar to the ZST.
  
 Edit2: Found a fit with different tips. The bass is more prominent than before but the rest are the same.
  
 Edit3: With little EQ I solved my problems, now it sounds good.


----------



## To.M

rikk009 Try to get a good seal, check the cable connections, in my ZST the lows come in good amounts, nothing is thin sounding.

Ok dear headfiers, let me wish you Merry Christmas! Have a good time with your family and friends and your favourite music too!


----------



## pashhtk27

Unexpectedly got my ZST 'colorful' today. They are really sexy!!
 But the sound is not of my preference. While they are technically capable, sibilance on vocals is very distracting. Well I was kinda expecting this so it'll all good. ATR will be the KZ of my choice for now. 

 Merry Christmas to all.


----------



## rikk009

to.m said:


> @rikk009 Try to get a good seal, check the cable connections, in my ZST the lows come in good amounts, nothing is thin sounding.
> 
> Ok dear headfiers, let me wish you Merry Christmas! Have a good time with your family and friends and your favourite music too!


 
 Have a order of comply tips, maybe they fit well.
  
 Merry Christmas.


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> From what was said back in the day (i.e. near when this thread first started), the EDR1 and EDse (which I see you have) sounded the same or  at least very similar. If that's true, no need to get the EDR1. Keep the ED4 and go for the ED3c/m. ED4 and ED3c are pretty different, so you'll get a unique listen from each. ED4 is hyper-aggressive (imo) and the ED3c warm, mellow, and laid back.



I only wanted the EDR1 to test those claims. That means I have reports of the EDSE, ED2, EDR2 and EDR1 being the same. I guess I'll sub out the EDR1 though. Already ordered 3 EDR2s. I guess the ED2 and EDR1 will wait. I'll throw in the ED3



kaiteck said:


> +1 Keep the ATR.



Guess I'll keep it, that's the one constant recommendation


vidal said:


> Pretty sure I have a pair here that I've not been able to sell, if you'll pay for the postage I'll send them to you.



I would, but I only have like $2.80 on my PayPal. Unless you somehow can ship it for that price, then I'll have to pass


----------



## B9Scrambler

bwas1000 said:


> I only wanted the EDR1 to test those claims. That means I have reports of the EDSE, ED2, EDR2 and EDR1 being the same. I guess I'll sub out the EDR1 though. Already ordered 3 EDR2s. I guess the ED2 and EDR1 will wait. I'll throw in the ED3.





> Guess I'll keep it, that's the one constant recommendation


 
  
 I've got the EDse and EDR2 and they're about as different as it gets. Mind you, the EDR2 I received came with all the vents glued shut so it's fully sealed. Others did not have theirs arrive like that which could account for the vastly differing opinions. My EDR2 is probably the most neutral sounding of all the KZs I own.
  
 ATR is definitely worth keeping. Good choice.


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> I've got the EDse and EDR2 and they're about as different as it gets. Mind you, the EDR2 I received came with all the vents glued shut so it's fully sealed. Others did not have theirs arrive like that which could account for the vastly differing opinions. My EDR2 is probably the most neutral sounding of all the KZs I own.
> 
> ATR is definitely worth keeping. Good choice.




So if the EDR2 and EDSE are different, and the ED2 and EDR2 are the same, that means....

God I hate curiosity sometimes


----------



## B9Scrambler

bwas1000 said:


> So if the EDR2 and EDSE are different, then if the ED2 and EDR2 are the same, that means....
> 
> God I hate curiosity sometimes


 
  
 I would be pretty shocked if the ED2 and EDR2 sounded the same. They use different housing materials, cast iron (jk) vs. aluminum, which you would expect to change the sound even if only a little.


----------



## Lorspeaker

"the more u ask...the more u gonna buy"
  
 ...it's a headfi law.


----------



## B9Scrambler

lorspeaker said:


> "the more u ask...the more u gonna buy"
> 
> ...it's a headfi law.


 
  
 Luckily KZ's are cheap  There's a reason I have 29 of them (more if you include dupes).


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> I would be pretty shocked if the ED2 and EDR2 sounded the same. They use different housing materials, cast iron (jk) vs. aluminum, which you would expect to change the sound even if only a little.



Yeah, I have my doubts as well, its pure curiosity



lorspeaker said:


> "the more u ask...the more u gonna buy"
> 
> ...it's a headfi law.



You know what they say about the police



b9scrambler said:


> Luckily KZ's are cheap  There's a reason I have 29 of them (more if you include dupes).




My god.


----------



## Thiago Melo

Guys i would like a iem low budget im suposed to buy kz zst but i saw some bad reviews about the dual drivers now i want to know about the other kz iems and maybe others, i think im going for zs3 or ate i dont know, also i never used a good earphone just those that comes in smartphone's so pls helpme i may spend until 17$ :v ty so much i listen all kind of musics and podcasts


----------



## Lorspeaker

what do u listen thru..a fone?


----------



## gobin

rikk009 said:


> Got ZST today. Paid for priority service and got it in 8 days. It came to my next city in just 4 days but Gati decided to take a 4 day break. Ordered a ZS3 back in Sep but that never reached any further than the customs. :rolleyes:



I ordered a kz zs3 on gearbest and it also stuck at custom after arrival (I check the package through tracking and it haven't updated its status since). I don't know what to do now other than keep waiting. Would I be given a refund if it doesn't reach me within 35-business-day delivery time?


----------



## zabunny94

thiago melo said:


> Guys i would like a iem low budget im suposed to buy kz zst but i saw some bad reviews about the dual drivers now i want to know about the other kz iems and maybe others, i think im going for zs3 or ate i dont know, also i never used a good earphone just those that comes in smartphone's so pls helpme i may spend until 17$ :v ty so much i listen all kind of musics and podcasts




Start with ed9. It has the best cable among any KZ iem and you can tune the sound with it's dual nozzle option.


----------



## BWAS1000

rikk009 said:


> Got ZST today. Paid for priority service and got it in 8 days. It came to my next city in just 4 days but Gati decided to take a 4 day break. Ordered a ZS3 back in Sep *but that never reached any further than the customs*. :rolleyes:
> 
> Anyway, after a few hours of burnin I didn't notice any change. I can say that these are nice pair of IEMs for the price. The bass is not much, highs are ok(edit:there is a little peak at 8-10k, the S-splash), doesn't extend that well but we are talking about a sub $10 IEM here. The thing that bothered me is the mids, it sounds thin. Vocals are at times sound distant. Not my fav signature. Soundstage is decent and separation is good. Overall a good VFM. I stopped investing in IEMs after Senn IE80 since my ear canals are not symmetrical and I struggle for a fit. That could be a problem that I am not hearing things that people here are. I don't have the silver cable but I am vary of investing any more in this. This is my first KZ, my brother has ATR (and he likes it). I haven't heard it yet. Maybe will get a chance to listen and compare it in recent future.
> 
> ...




Not what I wanted to hear, considering I'm waiting on my new phones and its stuck in customs now


----------



## B9Scrambler

> Guys i would like a iem low budget im suposed to buy kz zst but i saw some bad reviews about the dual drivers now i want to know about the other kz iems and maybe others, i think im going for zs3 or ate i dont know, also i never used a good earphone just those that comes in smartphone's so pls helpme i may spend until 17$ :v ty so much i listen all kind of musics and podcasts





> Start with ed9. It has the best cable among any KZ iem and you can tune the sound with it's dual nozzle option.


 
  
 ED9 is a great suggestion, The HDS1, ZS3, ATR, or ED3c would also be solid choices.


----------



## rikk009

gobin said:


> I ordered a kz zs3 on gearbest and it also stuck at custom after arrival (I check the package through tracking and it haven't updated its status since). I don't know what to do now other than keep waiting. Would I be given a refund if it doesn't reach me within 35-business-day delivery time?


 
 They refund me after 60 days I guess but they didn't refund me the signing up bonus, they said I have already used them. My tracking shows 'Handed over to customs' since 4th OCT. I don't aspect them to reach me.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

Merry Xmass everybody  !  
  
 Mailman came afterall and dropped me the brand new Fiio A3 and i hade a few hoursto play with it.  first impression is very good. but not that good as i read here.. but the main thing i bought it for is to get me a bit more volume than the phone i use .. and that is working perfect. I use the gain on L and the Bass is Off . no need for that with the ZST IEM. Volume is exactly where i want it . just a bit more than the phone.. staging and vocals are may be slightly better than the phone but not realy impressed there. may be my amp and headset need some more break in time .. i than switched to Flac files instead of listening to online 320kb Napster stream and that gave a bit better performance.. more staging and music is open now .. Adele is great and so is Yello. no need for big speakers and tupe amps anymore i can enjoy this aswell ..
  
 some pics of my setup : 
  




  
 enjoy your tunes !


----------



## Saoshyant

jeroen pasman said:


> Merry Xmass everybody  !
> 
> Mailman came afterall and dropped me the brand new Fiio A3 and i hade a few hoursto play with it.  first impression is very good. but not that good as i read here.. but the main thing i bought it for is to get me a bit more volume than the phone i use .. and that is working perfect. I use the gain on L and the Bass is Off . no need for that with the ZST IEM. Volume is exactly where i want it . just a bit more than the phone.. staging and vocals are may be slightly better than the phone but not realy impressed there. may be my amp and headset need some more break in time .. i than switched to Flac files instead of listening to online 320kb Napster stream and that gave a bit better performance.. more staging and music is open now .. Adele is great and so is Yello. no need for big speakers and tupe amps anymore i can enjoy this aswell ..
> 
> ...




Is that short interconnect the Fiio or JDS Labs? If it's the Fiio, did that come with the A3?


----------



## Lorspeaker

put on your KZsss n have a blessed Christmas !


----------



## gobin

rikk009 said:


> They refund me after 60 days I guess but they didn't refund me the signing up bonus, they said I have already used them. My tracking shows 'Handed over to customs' since 4th OCT. I don't aspect them to reach me.



Did they automatically refund you after 60 days or you have to contact them/open dispute?
I hope it reachs me within 35 days or else I could use that money to invest in something else. I'll avoid using Gearbest from now on, terrible first experience.

Anyway, Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## BWAS1000

I'll give them one try. Lucky for me ilk be using PayPal so I can get money back easily


----------



## Thomas De Brito

You guys get mail on Christmas day


----------



## BWAS1000

thomas de brito said:


> You guys get mail on Christmas day




I wish I had my phone for Christmas, but I don't


----------



## mochill

I wish I had mine too


----------



## rikk009

gobin said:


> Did they automatically refund you after 60 days or you have to contact them/open dispute?
> I hope it reachs me within 35 days or else I could use that money to invest in something else. I'll avoid using Gearbest from now on, terrible first experience.
> 
> Anyway, Merry Christmas everyone!


 
 You have to raise a ticket. I ordered again from them but with priority shipping and got the IEMs in 8 days, worth the extra dollar.


----------



## killerbond

wondering if a T400 or T200 will fit in my ZST?


----------



## Castomere

Happy Holidays! I would like to know where to get KZ in wholesale? I can't find their products on Alibaba.


----------



## aaDee

Received ZST today... On first listen, it sounded bright. Then thought of comparing with ATR n surprisingly I noticed that ATR sound is muffled. It's like new level of details on ZST. They are also louder than ATR. They have become my instant favorite.


----------



## danimoca

I disagree that the ATR's are dark sounding. They're neutral with a touch of warmth and bass. Not at all dark or muffled. 
  
 Of course paring is also key. It depends a bit on what they are plugged into.


----------



## danimoca

(double post)


----------



## aaDee

Of course they are not dark sounding. It's only when you compare them with ZST. And I was enjoying ATR till this morning. I'm just saying that ZST are one stop more detailed than ATR.
By the way, I'm listening them on Cowon c2 which is already brighter/ dry sounding.


----------



## crabdog

Well I just joined the ZST club as mine arrived today. Fun sound with good detail. Little heavy on the bass of course but for $20 they're definitely worth having.


----------



## To.M

Good to hear that you got them, I have a feeling that the bass has been tamed after some burn-in.


----------



## Shadowsora

Well I had the same impressions with ATE as well(Dark signature, not "fun" initially) especially after comparing it with the legendary Budget-FI Sony MH1, details on ATE were not as prominent as they were on MH1, Needless to say  I was disappointed initially.
  
 But after some days of listening ATE became my favorite IEM of all time, I could listen for hours without getting fatigued and vocalists sounded so natural and forward. also "soft" melodic songs where so lifelike, so accurate, MH1 and quadbeat 3 soon became artificial and over the edge commercial sounding for me, but I still enjoy those when I listen to EDM or Metal.
 It all comes down to preferences, I was a V-Shaped signature fan for a lot of years(Countless iems now long gone), then ATE came.


----------



## Viber

Anyone ever compared VSD3 (not vsd3s) to ATR??
  
 I got ATR on the way but i'm thinking about VSD3...
  
 I like bassy IEMs with good mids, smooth high mids and smooth detailed highs.


----------



## ayao

viber said:


> I like bassy IEMs with good mids, smooth high mids and smooth detailed highs.


 
 Going by your description, I think the VSD3 would be a very good choice. However, I don't have an ATR (or rather it's MIA since it was shipped on November 9th).


----------



## Viber

ayao said:


> Going by your description, I think the VSD3 would be a very good choice. However, I don't have an ATR (or rather it's MIA since it was shipped on November 9th).


 
  
 Thanks, i just don't want to get the VSD3 only to find that the ATR are of the same quality already.


----------



## ksatayboy

pashhtk27 said:


> Unexpectedly got my ZST 'colorful' today. They are really sexy!!
> 
> But the sound is not of my preference. While they are technically capable, sibilance on vocals is very distracting. Well I was kinda expecting this so it'll all good. ATR will be the KZ of my choice for now.
> 
> ...





I totally agree with you that's why I sold it and upgraded to the dt2+.

 But I do notice that the zst and dt2+ sounds alot better when driven from a better source or when my s7 edge is attached to my Fiio e07k. It add alot more texture and details to the music and it is way more enjoyable to listen to.

If you are a casual audiophile I find the zs3 to sound superb with so much clarity and soundstage when used with a smartphone.

I may upgrade to a fiio e17k as it sounds alot better and I can get it cheap in my area. Waiting for my ATR!


----------



## chinmie

pashhtk27 said:


> Unexpectedly got my ZST 'colorful' today. They are really sexy!!
> 
> But the sound is not of my preference. While they are technically capable, sibilance on vocals is very distracting. Well I was kinda expecting this so it'll all good. ATR will be the KZ of my choice for now.
> 
> ...




reading few last pages on the ZST made me hesitant to buy it. I also think that the ATR's treble is nice, neutral , and most importantly not ear piercing. listening to the ATR on long and loud sessions is really enjoyable and non fatiguing. it is on par with my ATH M50 for listening enjoyment (in term of balance of frequencies, although they also differ in character,soundstage, etc). i tried the ZS3, i think it is good sounding. but i don't like the memory wires

for reference, my other listening device is:
Remax S1 pro- I really hate this, the treble is shrill, bass, is muffled, no instrument separation/ soundstaging, finicky fitting. I even hesitant to give this to relatives because i'm afraid it might damage their hearing
ATH CKX5iS - my wife's earphone.this is also have a piercing treble, but the instrument separation is good. i just can't use this for a long session
Stock Xperia Z sony iem -don't know the type. this is really bass heavy. nice for watching movies. mids and treble is recessed
QCY QY19 - nice balanced sound. bass is good, trebles non piercing. not too special, but great for what it's worth and purpose
KRK V6 studio monitors - had this for ages, still love the sound

I am waiting for the TY HI Z32 in the mail, 
now i am still curious about the ED9, but if anybody can confirm about the high frequencies? is it piercing? how is it compared to the ATR and ZS3?


----------



## zabunny94

chinmie said:


> now i am still curious about the ED9, but if anybody can confirm about the high frequencies? is it piercing? how is it compared to the ATR and ZS3?




The stock iem for sony xperia z is sony MH750

Ed9, while the high frequency isn't really piercing, it isn't really comfortable for long session listening either. You should get HDS1 or ED3M for non fatiguing sound


----------



## ksatayboy

chinmie said:


> reading few last pages on the ZST made me hesitant to buy it. I also think that the ATR's treble is nice, neutral , and most importantly not ear piercing. listening to the ATR on long and loud sessions is really enjoyable and non fatiguing. it is on par with my ATH M50 for listening enjoyment (in term of balance of frequencies, although they also differ in character,soundstage, etc). i tried the ZS3, i think it is good sounding. but i don't like the memory wires
> 
> for reference, my other listening device is:
> Remax S1 pro- I really hate this, the treble is shrill, bass, is muffled, no instrument separation/ soundstaging, finicky fitting. I even hesitant to give this to relatives because i'm afraid it might damage their hearing
> ...





Nice to hear about your experiences. I love my m50s that's why i ordered the atr! Hopefully is as good.

Anyone with the zs1 or zs2? I know it's dual dynamic does it sound better than the zs3?


----------



## aaDee

Any mods for ZST to improve mids? They sound piercing on few tracks.


----------



## Shawn71

aadee said:


> Any mods for ZST to improve mids? They sound piercing on few tracks.




You can try adding a small damper (sponge) in the nozzle......remember,the BA is housed in the nozzle so try adjusting the space between them and see how it tames.

I've posted some pictures of damper from my zs3,take a look in the gallery,to get a fair idea.


----------



## chinmie

zabunny94 said:


> The stock iem for sony xperia z is sony MH750
> 
> Ed9, while the high frequency isn't really piercing, it isn't really comfortable for long session listening either. You should get HDS1 or ED3M for non fatiguing sound


 
  
 Thank you for the info, but after i googled it, it is not the MH750, but it is the MH-EX300AP (looking by the shape of it..i don't know if there's other sony earphone with the same shape like EX300AP)
  
 what about the soundstaging between the ED9, HDS1, ED3M compared to the ATR?
  


ksatayboy said:


> Nice to hear about your experiences. I love my m50s that's why i ordered the atr! Hopefully is as good.
> 
> Anyone with the zs1 or zs2? I know it's dual dynamic does it sound better than the zs3?


 
  
 I hope you'll like it, as i really enjoy it. though i recommended it to a friend, his reaction is that it sounded flat and unexiting. well..each to his own i guess. I also curious about the ZS1


----------



## zabunny94

oh well, my xperia z1 came with mh750 and friend's z2 also came with it(and those noise cancelling one with 5 pin) so i assumed that XZ also came with it


----------



## kaiteck

I noticed some minor changes to kz ate-s.
 Above is the old ver, below is the most recent purchased.
 Bought from Easy Aliexpress store.
 changes: nozzle became red, memory wire changed


----------



## Mus1c

How to know the genuine product of kz atr.


----------



## Shawn71

mus1c said:


> How to know the genuine product of kz atr.




All ATR are legit,as of now.......why?


----------



## Shawn71

kaiteck said:


> I noticed some minor changes to kz ate-s.
> Above is the old ver, below is the most recent purchased.
> Bought from  Easy  aliexpress store.
> changes: nozzle became red, memory wire changed




Are there any changes in the sound?......see if you cld find any damper back of the nozzle mesh of the new ate-s.only if you cld.


----------



## Mus1c

Shawn71 did you have kz atr.i was wondering if kz has fake one.


----------



## Shawn71

mus1c said:


> Shawn71 did you have kz atr.i was wondering if kz has fake one.




Yes sir, I do have the ATR and loving it, since minute 1.......


----------



## hoerlurar

i received my ZST today!
 a bit more plastic and lighter than i had expected.
 from my first minute of listening it sounds good, maybe a bit too much splash in the cymbals, but we'll see with some burn in and tip-rolling later on...


----------



## Mus1c

shawn71 said:


> Yes sir, I do have the ATR and loving it, since minute 1.......


 What kind genre you used to listen to went you use kz atr?.


----------



## hoerlurar

mus1c said:


> @Shawn71 did you have kz atr.i was wondering if kz has fake one.


 

 KZ has had some less than stellar quality control throughout the history, so i don't think there has been any need for fake ones so far


----------



## Mus1c

hoerlurar said:


> KZ has had some less than stellar quality control throughout the history, so i don't think there has been any need for fake ones so far


ok that great news, so i can buy another kz without worrying its fake.


----------



## Lorspeaker

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2162067?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.OO2zkn
  
 this zst price looks good?


----------



## Shawn71

mus1c said:


> What kind genre you used to listen to went you use kz atr?.




All mixed up......progressive,heavy/slow rock,classic,acoustic,mostly 80's,psychedllc and goes on. If you are into EDM ,hip-hop more and the likes you better stay with the zs3 (and zst too? Since I dont own it). But most likely ATR covers all genres for everyone,imo.but again ymmv and it all comes to personal preference.And for $5 you just cant go wrong with these.


----------



## Mus1c

shawn71 said:


> All mixed up......progressive,heavy/slow rock,classic,acoustic,mostly 80's,psychedllc and goes on. If you are into EDM ,hip-hop more and the likes you better stay with the zs3 (and zst too? Since I dont own it). But most likely ATR covers all genres for everyone,imo.but again ymmv and it all comes to personal preference.And for $5 you just cant go wrong with these.


 Hey i just took a listen to my atr and it does cover almost all genres with ease.i tested all genres you wrote in this thread and the results was amazing even with edm or hip hop genre.


----------



## Griffith

The moment of truth is here guys... I just received them. Now we will all be able to settle the convoluted opinions surrounding this earphone we will finally have a final word that will settle all of the arguments once and for all...
  

  
 I'm of course being sarcastic as I doubt anything I write will settle any ongoing discussions, but at least we'll have another opinion to argue over.


----------



## hoerlurar

griffith said:


> The moment of truth is here guys... I just received them. Now we will all be able to settle the convoluted opinions surrounding this earphone we will finally have a final word that will settle all of the arguments once and for all...
> 
> I'm of course being sarcastic as I doubt anything I write will settle any ongoing discussions, but at least we'll have another opinion to argue over.


 
 remind me again, what are we arguing about?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have a couple of hours eartime with mine so far, listening to tech-thrash from spotify premium.
 They sound good, maybe a bit hot treble, and I thought they would be bassier as well.


----------



## Griffith

hoerlurar said:


> remind me again, what are we arguing about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are a lot of contentious arguments over the ZST's quality, whether they are bassy, whether they are siblant in the highs, whether they are better than the ATE, whether the silver plated cables improve the sound quality, etc etc...


----------



## Griffith

I'll leave further thoughts into how I think the KZ ZST sound until the honeymoon period dies off and I've tried out more music with them, possibly also try to burn them for a few hours to see if that has any noticeable impact but I'd like to point out some things to people considering purchasing them.
  
 If you own and like the KZ ATR or the KZ ZS3 and have heard that the ZST is an upgrade, it's not. The KZ ZST is as much of an upgrade to those earphones as sports car is an upgrade to a family sedan. They are very different sounding types of earphones. The ZST has a broader soundstage, less prominent bass and generally brighter sound signature. If you want an upgrade or something else within the same type of sound as the ATR or ZS3, consider getting the KZ ED9 or the ZS1. I'm particularly fond of the ZS1 as a very unique sounding warm and bassy earphone.
  
 If you own the KZ ATE and you'd like something that sounds better then get the ZST. The ZST as not as neutral sounding as the ATE, they're far too bright for that, but out of all the KZ earphones I have they sound the most similar to the ATE. What you can expect is a similar soundstage and instrument separation, lush vocals that are, in my opinion, a clear improvement over the ATE and brighter highs. Female voices on the ZST are particularly fantastic and have a great presence to them. If you enjoy the ATE but wished you had something that sounded less dry than they do with some music the ZST are what you want.


----------



## Joong

KZ ED9 has similar SQ to HE-400 full size headphones.
It is surprising indeed.
I am reconsidering Chinese IEMs as alternative for those full size headphones that I have.


----------



## aaDee

To my ears ZST are betther than VE DUKE as $200 iem.


----------



## TrixtonSk8

Decided to go nuts and sample the KZ line and some other overhyped budget-fi IEMs because my cat decided to eat my Yamaha EPH-100 cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 So I set out to find a new sound sig or three... for science...
  
  
 KZ ZST colored w/ silver cable
 KZ ATR
 KZ ATE
 KZ ATE-S
 KZ ZS3
 KZ HDS3
 KZ-ED9
  
 Superlux HD381F
 Xiaomi Hybrid dual driver
 VE Monk+
Kinera BD005 red


  
 Total: $1095 $140 lol seriously???  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




























  such hype


----------



## Griffith

trixtonsk8 said:


> Decided to go nuts and sample the KZ line and some other overhyped budget-fi IEMs because my cat decided to eat my Yamaha EPH-100 cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you want something unique from KZ's line consider getting the ZS1. They are an underappreciated gem in my opinion whereas you have two or three earphones in that lineup whose qualities I consider interchangeable with another model's.


----------



## TrixtonSk8

griffith said:


> If you want something unique from KZ's line consider getting the ZS1. They are an underappreciated gem in my opinion whereas you have two or three earphones in that lineup whose qualities I consider interchangeable with another model's.


 
  
 I'll look into the ZS1 for my next purchase.  Always looking for that unappreciated gem, that diamond in the rough.


----------



## Griffith

trixtonsk8 said:


> I'll look into the ZS1 for my next purchase.  Always looking for that unappreciated gem, that diamond in the rough.


 
  
 I wouldn't say they're a diamond but they offer a unique experience. Most songs sound like you are inside a studio and have a warm blanket of bass surrounding you. They don't muddy up details, they don't negatively impact frequencies significantly but they make you feel as if you are in a different place in time.


----------



## TrixtonSk8

griffith said:


> I wouldn't say they're a diamond but they offer a unique experience. Most songs sound like you are inside a studio and have a warm blanket of bass surrounding you. They don't muddy up details, they don't negatively impact frequencies significantly but they make you feel as if you are in a different place in time.


 
 Seems a bit like my Sennheiser PX 100-II, which I enjoy very much for what it is.


----------



## Joong

Not only Px100 but also many other full size headphones should be reconsidered. 
Frankly speaking we now face huge barrier of the money paid already for those big phones.
I think these Chinese small ones are not far from big phones.
Only obvious advantage of big phones is their longer cable that allows me around my desktop setting.


----------



## Thiago Melo

guys so im intend to buy kz iems and i would like to know which of those is worth to buy and those which arent, when i say worth i mean the highests in benefict by value ty so much


----------



## Joong

Kz ed09 is a good start.
When you begin to collect kz lines, you might recognize ed09 is their best seller. The package is better than their siblings and cable also better as well.

Zs1 is also good choice if like bass.


----------



## Griffith

thiago melo said:


> guys so im intend to buy kz iems and i would like to know which of those is worth to buy and those which arent, when i say worth i mean the highests in benefict by value ty so much


 
  
 Depends on your sound preference.
  
 If you like warm sounding earphones then you should consider the KZ ZS3, ED9, ATR or ZS1 (the most unique out of those).
  
 If you like more analytical earphones neutral-sounding or bright, then consider the KZ ATE (fifth generation, the current one) or the KZ ZST respectively.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

guys , who of you are using an extra amp with your KZ IEM. ?   i have a Fiio A3 working with my Galaxy S7 edge .... 
 I wonder how you adjust volume ?  phone at 95 % and adjust on the amp ore amp at 90 % and adjust on the phone  ?  whats best ?  
  
 Jeroen


----------



## Joong

Weaker on your phone side (not too weak) and control your amp volume in order to preventing clipping on amp side, I think.
However you might better try.


----------



## To.M

griffith said:


> If you want something unique from KZ's line consider getting the ZS1. They are an underappreciated gem in my opinion whereas you have two or three earphones in that lineup whose qualities I consider interchangeable with another model's.




That's a nice shopping spree!  I can vouch for: ZST, ATE, MONK+, KINERA, they are all used and appreciated by me 

p.s. monk+ were trumped by ty hi-z 32ohm in my case


----------



## Griffith

jeroen pasman said:


> guys , who of you are using an extra amp with your KZ IEM. ?   i have a Fiio A3 working with my Galaxy S7 edge ....
> I wonder how you adjust volume ?  phone at 95 % and adjust on the amp ore amp at 90 % and adjust on the phone  ?  whats best ?
> 
> Jeroen


 
  
 I use an amp when I'm at my desktop and I use my phone when I'm not. I think that if you're using an amp your source device should be set at 100% volume and you should regulate volume at the amplifier.


----------



## hoerlurar

jeroen pasman said:


> guys , who of you are using an extra amp with your KZ IEM. ?   i have a Fiio A3 working with my Galaxy S7 edge ....
> I wonder how you adjust volume ?  phone at 95 % and adjust on the amp ore amp at 90 % and adjust on the phone  ?  whats best ?
> 
> Jeroen


 
 I've seen measurements of the headphone out of my phone, and that it distorts on max volume, at least with simulated headphones plugged in. So for my LG G2 i guess 70% volume would be the best, and then adjust the rest with external amp. Too low volume from the phone makes the amp amplify noise as well, probably.
  
 you can always test different combinations, and listen for differences?


----------



## Griffith

to.m said:


> That's a nice shopping spree!  I can vouch for: ZST, ATE, MONK+, KINERA, they are all used and appreciated by me
> 
> p.s. monk+ were trumped by ty hi-z 32ohm in my case


 
  
 Kinera is a brand, not an earphone.


----------



## doggiemom

jeroen pasman said:


> guys , who of you are using an extra amp with your KZ IEM. ?   i have a Fiio A3 working with my Galaxy S7 edge ....
> I wonder how you adjust volume ?  phone at 95 % and adjust on the amp ore amp at 90 % and adjust on the phone  ?  whats best ?
> 
> Jeroen


 

 I use a DAC/amp pretty much all the time.  For home listening, I use a laptop > Mojo with the source volume at 100%.  For portable listening, I use an iPhone 6S (free cuz of work) > CCK > CEntrance HD portable.  I would think that with a DAC the phone volume wouldn't matter since you are just taking the digital signal from the phone not the analog waveform, (someone please correct me if I am wrong here), but I run the phone at 100% too.


----------



## Griffith

doggiemom said:


> I use a DAC/amp pretty much all the time.  For home listening, I use a laptop > Mojo with the source volume at 100%.  For portable listening, I use an iPhone 6S (free cuz of work) > CCK > CEntrance HD portable.  I would think that with a DAC the phone volume wouldn't matter since you are just taking the digital signal from the phone not the analog waveform, (someone please correct me if I am wrong here), but I run the phone at 100% too.


 
  
 Some DAC/AMPs take over the volume control of the device, others don't. My Fiio E7, as an example, takes over volume control when I plug it into my Macbook or Windows PC and whatever setting I have on the OS outside of "mute" doesn't influence it but my Audio-GD NFB12's volume can be set independently from the OS and I can tweak both if I want (though I usually have the Windows Volume at 100%).


----------



## To.M

griffith said:


> Kinera is a brand, not an earphone.




Yes mate, I do know it as I have Kinera BD005 and there was only one model of Kinera on TrixtonSk8's list so it is obvious what I meant by writing just Kinera.


----------



## Griffith

to.m said:


> Yes mate, I do know it as I have Kinera BD005 and there was only one model of Kinera on TrixtonSk8's list so it is obvious what I meant by writing just Kinera.


 
  
 Well I apologize for not being a mind-reader. If you were referring to TrixtonSk8's list perhaps you should have quoted it instead of a post I made.


----------



## bhazard

I got my KZ ZST today after about a month. These are the best KZ set available IMO, and I've nearly heard them all.
  
 Yes, these need EQ to fix some high end splash, but otherwise they are very capable. The first run was probably a bad batch.
  
 Thumbs up.


----------



## TrixtonSk8

bhazard said:


> I got my KZ ZST today after about a month. These are the best KZ set available IMO, and I've nearly heard them all.
> 
> Yes, these need EQ to fix some high end splash, but otherwise they are very capable. The first run was probably a bad batch.
> 
> Thumbs up.


 
  
 Can't wait to get mine, I'm excited I will be getting so many at once


----------



## gobin

After one month of waiting, my KZ ZS3 finally arrived
  
 It's the first IEM I have that comes with an instruction for "burn in", though I can't quite understand what the instruction trying to say (seems like they using google translate or something). 
 Anyway, OOTB, it sounds fairly similar to my Tennmak Pro, which is heavy toward bass and low, high is there but quite submissive. I haven't fully known what "mid range" means so I can't comment anything on that. Overall, it has more depth in tone than the Panasonic RP-HJE120, but has less clarity than the Tennmack Pro
  
 Despite its weird and bulky shape, it's able fits comfortable in my ears over an extended period., which my Tennmak Pro fails to do so. +1 for the design.
 Cable is slightly above average, the memory wire is definitely better than whatever it is the default Tennmak Pro's cable.
  
 It looks cheap but delivers a pretty substantial performance. It deserved the $7 price tag IMO.


----------



## macky112

could someone please comment on which of these has the best sub-bass?  ZS3, ZS1, and ED9


----------



## khighly

bhazard said:


> I got my KZ ZST today after about a month. These are the best KZ set available IMO, and I've nearly heard them all.
> 
> Yes, these need EQ to fix some high end splash, but otherwise they are very capable. The first run was probably a bad batch.
> 
> Thumbs up.


 

 I just got tennmak pro's, and I really like them, but the ZST's enormous soundstage and clarity keeps bringing me back. They're insanely good for the price.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

hoerlurar said:


> I've seen measurements of the headphone out of my phone, and that it distorts on max volume, at least with simulated headphones plugged in. So for my LG G2 i guess 70% volume would be the best, and then adjust the rest with external amp. Too low volume from the phone makes the amp amplify noise as well, probably.
> 
> you can always test different combinations, and listen for differences?


 
  
 Thanks !  yeah i was a bit affraid for the distortion at volume higher than 90 % . 
 my settings :  phone at 90% and adjust the volume on the Amp .. depending on the file i have to adjust simply becouse some files are louder than the other.  i use FLAC only .
  
 than the next choice i have to make is the audio player for andriod.. it has to be "poweramp"or "playerpro " 
 I found the poweramp to be more analitic and not the most easy EQ settings but great detail and information about the file you play . 
 The Player pro has a bit warmer sound and overall a louder sound. EQ is very good and easy .. but less detailed info about the file . 
 one other thing is that the Poweramp has a very nice short fade in fade out function,
  
 what do you guys use ?  
  
 PS i only own the ZST and i love it !   the ATR is ordered just to compare and a set of spare ZST is also shipped to my adres..


----------



## dudinacas

jeroen pasman said:


> Thanks !  yeah i was a bit affraid for the distortion at volume higher than 90 % .
> my settings :  phone at 90% and adjust the volume on the Amp .. depending on the file i have to adjust simply becouse some files are louder than the other.  i use FLAC only .
> 
> than the next choice i have to make is the audio player for andriod.. it has to be "poweramp"or "playerpro "
> ...


 

 I use BlackPlayer. Fantastic interface and library functions, good EQ too but I normally keep it on flat.


----------



## Ruben123

jeroen pasman said:


> Thanks !  yeah i was a bit affraid for the distortion at volume higher than 90 % .
> my settings :  phone at 90% and adjust the volume on the Amp .. depending on the file i have to adjust simply becouse some files are louder than the other.  i use FLAC only .
> 
> than the next choice i have to make is the audio player for andriod.. it has to be "poweramp"or "playerpro "
> ...




Seems weird to me that different music players sound else without eq applied but OK in one of the few sceptics on head fi. I use rockbox and vlc myself.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

@Ruben 123 .. 
  
 Yess that is weird !! i did a double check ... twice !  but there is a volume difference between poweramp and player pro.. of couse i checked all the EQ settings and set them in Neutral.  Since i use FLAC only i thought these 2 were the best .. if there is a better player and please inform me , i am a Noob in this ....
  
 Jeroen


----------



## Griffith

jeroen pasman said:


> @Ruben 123 ..
> 
> Yess that is weird !! i did a double check ... twice !  but there is a volume difference between poweramp and player pro.. of couse i checked all the EQ settings and set them in Neutral.  Since i use FLAC only i thought these 2 were the best .. if there is a better player and please inform me , i am a Noob in this ....
> 
> Jeroen


 
  
 There's no such thing as a "best" player but there is a very big number of great players for Android. I personally use GoneMAD Music Player but there are plenty of other good players like Black Player, Neutron... there are so many. Most of them have free versions or free trial versions so I recommend you do the same thing I did, download a bunch of them and buy the one you like the most.


----------



## zabunny94

i use either foobar2000 or whatever the stick music player that came with my phone. i don't believe in those "this apps sound better than other" pitch. every music player should sound the same with EQ off anyway.


----------



## danspy

macky112 said:


> could someone please comment on which of these has the best sub-bass?  ZS3, ZS1, and ED9


 
  
 The ZS3 is a Bass Monster Like the ATE-s, but has crispier Highs.


----------



## Thiago Melo

guys do burn in really improves the sound? i ordered an ed9 and a zs3.. so should i? and what about the equalization?


----------



## H20Fidelity

thiago melo said:


> guys do burn in really improves the sound? i ordered an ed9 and a zs3.. so should i? and what about the equalization?


 
  
 The answer to your question will depend who replies first. Some believe it helps while others do not believe (at all). As you can see this causes a conflict of interest then low and behold...a crap storm is born!
  
 If you wish try breaking them in play them at medium/high volume for several hours. Put them inside a sock, draw, little temple or something and play music through them on repeat for hours.


----------



## danspy

thiago melo said:


> guys do burn in really improves the sound? i ordered an ed9 and a zs3.. so should i? and what about the equalization?


 
  
 Yes mostly in the first hour or two, because it softens the Membrane and the Glue around the Voice Coil.


----------



## Griffith

zabunny94 said:


> i use either foobar2000 or whatever the stick music player that came with my phone. i don't believe in those "this apps sound better than other" pitch. every music player should sound the same with EQ off anyway.


 
  
 Some applications have their own built-in processors and equalization which can have an impact on music. While I find that there are less applications with that on Windows, at least out of the ones I've tried so far, on Android when I was trying to find a player that pleased me I found that a significant number of the most recommended ones had their own EQ/processing which changed sound signature to some degree.


----------



## Thiago Melo

ok guys another question xD what are the differences between the ate and the ate-s? which is better? ty


----------



## B9Scrambler

thiago melo said:


> ok guys another question xD what are the differences between the ate and the ate-s? which is better? ty


 
  
 You can find pages of this exact question and a trillion answers by going back through the thread.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> You can find pages of this exact question and a trillion answers by going back through the thread.


 Man i know the questions its already been answered from through others pages back before but it hard to find the exact answer that he been asking for.Can you help him?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> Man i know the questions its already been answered from through others pages back before but it hard to find the exact answer that he been asking for.Can you help him?


 
  
 A lot of other members put in a fair bit of time and effort to outline the differences between the numerous ATE models and revisions (@CoiL in particular). It would take a couple minutes at most to use the search feature at the top of the page to find those posts. And no, I don't have the ATE and ATE-s so I can't outline the differences between them.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> A lot of other members put in a fair bit of time and effort to outline the differences between the numerous ATE models and revisions (@CoiL
> in particular). It would take a couple minutes at most to use the search feature at the top of the page to find those posts. And no, I don't have the ATE and ATE-s so I can't outline the differences between them.


 ok soo you dont have ate or ates to tel the difference thats ok but i do really appreciate your help to answer the question.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> ok soo you dont have ate or ates to tel the difference thats ok but i do really appreciate your help to answer the question.


 
  
 Np. I have the ATE and a billion other KZs (just check my profile), but not the ATE-s. Never felt the need to pick it up.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> Np. I have the ATE and a billion other KZs (just check my profile), but not the ATE-s. Never felt the need to pick it up.


 No in the last thread you say you don't have ate or ates and you can't compare them both, idk you have ate or you just wrong typing.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> No in the last thread *you say you don't have ate or ates* and you can't compare them both, idk you have ate or you just wrong typing.


 
  
 I'm not here to argue, but I can clarify that your interpretation of my statement was a little off;
  
 "And no, I don't have the ATE _*and*_ ATE-s so I can't outline the differences between them"
  
 If I said ATE _*or*_ ATE-s, that would mean I have neither. Easy to misinterpret I guess. If you look back in the thread you'll see I talk about the ATE quite a bit, posted a shootout with it and eight other KZ models, and have all my earphones and gear listed in my profile. These are the KZ models I own and base my opinions/comparisons on;
  
 Micro Ring, ANV, RX, R3, CM9, DS, DT5, C56R, Z1, EDR2, EDse, ED3 "Perfection", ED3c/m "The Acme", ED4, ED8, ED9, ED10, ED12, ATE (1st gen), ATR, ZS1 (brass), ZN1 Mini, ZS3, ZST, HDS1, HDS2, HDS3, LPs
  
 A little bit of research can go a long way. This thread contains a wealth of information if you look for it.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Lorspeaker

there should be ( / is there?) a tag feature in these threads to tag "reviews".... esp longgg threads.
  
  
 =====
  
 burn ins....it isnt tat technical...it is like a butterfly getting out of its cocoon for the first time..
 stretchhhhhhh, n a few yawns.....b4 it really flies.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> I'm not here to argue, but I can clarify that your interpretation of my statement was a little off;
> 
> "And no, I don't have the ATE _*and*_ ATE-s so I can't outline the differences between them"
> 
> ...


 Soory for misunderstood i got confuse when you say"I don't have the ATE and ATE-s so I can't outline the differences between them" i thought you dont have them both to compare.thats it i got confused and i didn't check your profile for further information so i dont know you have ate but not ates.


----------



## danspy

I have both the ATE,s and the sound identical. Must be from the same revision.


----------



## B9Scrambler

lorspeaker said:


> there should be ( / is there?) a tag feature in these threads to tag "reviews".... esp longgg threads.
> 
> 
> =====
> ...


 
  
 Not that I know of. Would be nice though.
  


mus1c said:


> Soory for misunderstood i got confuse when you say"I don't have the ATE and ATE-s so I can't outline the differences between them" i thought you dont have them both to compare.thats it i got confused and i didn't check your profile for further information so i dont know you have ate but not ates.


 
  
 No worries


----------



## macky112

b9scrambler said:


> Micro Ring, ANV, RX, R3, CM9, DS, DT5, C56R, Z1, EDR2, EDse, ED3 "Perfection", ED3c/m "The Acme", ED4, ED8, ED9, ED10, ED12, ATE (1st gen), ATR, ZS1 (brass), ZN1 Mini, ZS3, ZST, HDS1, HDS2, HDS3, LPs


 
 Hi B9,
  
 I have ZS3 and am really curious about other KZ IEMs, could you please give a quick overview of how the ZST, ATR, ZS1 and ED9 compare to ZS3?  I am also confused about the ZS1 revisions, could you help clarify?


----------



## Lorspeaker

thinking of picking up a ZS1, after reading a few comments..
 then i saw the blue ZS2.. 
 whats the diff...apart from color..or are these "the same" ?
  
 ( i hv the zs3 and zst )


----------



## dudinacas

lorspeaker said:


> thinking of picking up a ZS1, after reading a few comments..
> then i saw the blue ZS2..
> whats the diff...apart from color..or are these "the same" ?
> 
> ( i hv the zs3 and zst )


 

 They're the same IEM with a different colour scheme.


----------



## Shawn71

lorspeaker said:


> thinking of picking up a ZS1, after reading a few comments..
> then i saw the blue ZS2..
> whats the diff...apart from color..or are these "the same" ?
> 
> ( i hv the zs3 and zst )




I know zs1 is a bass monster for sure......also the zs2 chamber looks in a different way that cld possibley changed the sound against zs1. Not sure whats that mettal barrel inside the plastic nozzle of zs1 does other than making the nozzle somewhat rigid. B9 will pitch in as he has zenith of knowledge.


----------



## Mus1c

shawn71 said:


> I know zs1 is a bass monster for sure......also the zs2 chamber looks in a different way that cld possibley changed the sound against zs1. Not sure whats that mettal barrel inside the plastic nozzle of zs1 does other than making the nozzle somewhat rigid. B9 will pitch in as he has zenith of knowledge.


Just let the professional kz masters clarify that. B9 he is professional kz iem because he test large variety of kz iem before, just let him explain about it


----------



## Shawn71

mus1c said:


> Just let the professional kz masters clarify that. B9 he is professional kz iem because he test large variety of kz iem before, just let him explain about it




Yes SIR! Roger that.......Ive already put that in the last line of my previous quote SIR,with all due respect. Out I go.


----------



## sfogar

thiago melo said:


> ok guys another question xD what are the differences between the ate and the ate-s? which is better? ty


 
  
 I can only say, having ATR, ATE-S and ZS3 that the ATE-S are the most balanced of the three. Magical sound (for the money obviously).


----------



## kaiteck

sfogar said:


> I can only say, having ATR, ATE-S and ZS3 that the ATE-S are the most balanced of the three. Magical sound (for the money obviously).


 
 I have ate and ate-s. Personally prefer ATE-s tho ate is more balanced than ate-s.


----------



## Shawn71

sfogar said:


> I can only say, having ATR, ATE-S and ZS3 that the ATE-S are the most balanced of the three. Magical sound (for the money obviously).




Did you buy your ate-s lately?......hows the imaging and instuments tone?


----------



## sfogar

shawn71 said:


> Did you buy your ate-s lately?......hows the imaging and instuments tone?


 
  
 Yes I purchased them one month ago...
  
 I like very much the imaging and instrument tone, it remembers me my Sennheiser hd-650


----------



## irsan

Just received my ZS3 dan ZST 2 days ago. After 2 days of usage, i prefer ZST over ZS3. This is my short comparison.

Build quality, fit and comfort
ZS3 and ZST both are comfortable and fit well in my ear. Build quality is above average, but ZST feel more premium.

I prefer ZS3's cable because of memory wire. ZST's cable feel cheap.. btw ZS3 cable fit perfectly on ZST, so i swap it (ZST cablet not fit for ZS3).

Sound
I like ZST more.. ZS3 has a smooth and balance sound but ZST feel more engaging to me. ZST has more clarity low to high and a lil bit forward in presentation. The treble is really smooth (i use comply foam to tame down the treble a bit). Separation and details on ZST is one step ahead.

Overall ZS3 sounds warmer and smooth, but ZST feels more engaging with more forward presentation and clarity, also treble sounds so good on ZST.

Thanks..


----------



## Shawn71

kaiteck said:


> I have ate and ate-s. Personally prefer ATE-s tho ate is more balanced than ate-s.




All these months I had waited for the silver ate but ended in vain......may be a better sounding than the silveryor on par with silver is the only option now, so its ate or ate-s,to me. And like to hear myself what people say about ate, along with my atr. OR just buy them both,simple as that.

Hmm ok......so whats that you like from ate-s than ate,? Like slight boost in bass or little forward mids or smoother treble, its SS etc.


----------



## Griffith

So I made a post on the sub $100 Chinese IEM thread with short one line reviews of all the earphones I've received so far. Most of them are KZ ones so I decided to quote that reply here in its entirety. Feel free to ask me any questions but if they're not related to KZ earphones please ask them in the other forum thread. I will leave a link to it after the quote.
  


> So I got a whole bunch of Chinese IEMs in the past few weeks and thought I'd write a one line review for all of them for you guys to have as a reference.
> 
> KZ ATE - the first I received and one of my favorites of the bunch. Very balanced sounding, decent soundstage and instrument separation with a sprinkling of bass but can sound a bit dry with some music.
> KZ ZS3 - one of the more comfortable KZ IEMs, these are V-shaped and bassy and comfortable to listen to for long sessions
> ...


 
  
 Original thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/805930/best-sub-100-chinese-brands-earphones-thread-hidden-gems-personal-favorite-best-deals-and-impressions-sharing-for-audiophile-on-budget-include-best-chinese-headphones-dap-section/1860#post_13122530


----------



## Shawn71

sfogar said:


> ,Yes I purchased them one month ago...
> 
> I like very much the imaging and instrument tone, it remembers me my Sennheiser hd-650




Ok, not much of a batch difference,if theres any, for me to order coming days......TY btw!


----------



## B9Scrambler

macky112 said:


> Hi B9,
> 
> I have ZS3 and am really curious about other KZ IEMs, could you please give a quick overview of how the ZST, ATR, ZS1 and ED9 compare to ZS3?  I am also confused about the ZS1 revisions, could you help clarify?


 
  
BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL, YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR ANSWER (mostly)​  ​ ​  
  
 ZST is the most grandiose sounding of the bunch. Lots of energy, big bass, bright treble, aggressive midrange. ZS3 is imo warmer, darker, more natural sounding, and more mid-bass focused. Less fatiguing too. Soundstage is similar in size but ZST is a step up in terms of raw detail and accuracy, imaging quality, and instrument separation. Those are it's best qualities I feel.
  
 ATR and ZS3 are pretty similar overall but with some key differences that I covered a while back. Post 1 / Post 2 Hopefully those help.
  
 My ZS1 isn't the same as the model you can buy right now but I have spent some time with the current revision. It sounded identical to my ZN1 Mini so I'll be using that. ZS3's lower treble is more prominent while the ZN1 has better extension. They both have a lovely, smooth midrange though I'd give the ZS3 the edge. The ZN1 comes across a bit veiled in direct comparison. The ZN1 is a touch grainy top to bottom lacking the refinement of the ZS3. ZS3's bass is slightly less prominent and better controlled.I find the ZN1's bass to be a little hollow and heavy. Speaking of weight, the ZS3 has a thinner, more nimble and distant presentation. If you want a fun, bassy signature that doesn't sacrifice much in the way of treble/mid quality, the ZN1/ZS1 is a good pick. If you want something that's a bit more balanced, the ZS3 would be the better option.
  
 I'm not going to compare to the ED9 since I have such a love/hate relationship with that earphone. At times it sounds amazing, at others the treble is too wild and splashy. I'll leave that to another.
  
 The original ZS1 has a crossover covering the rear of the treble driver and a brass ring in the nozzle instead of the standard mesh you find on most earphones. You can sort of see the crossover in the image below. You can't buy this one anymore. Talking to KZ back in the day through their AliExpress store, it seems this was a limited release.
  
     ​  ​ This thing is a super smooth, highly refined bass cannon. Much warmer and bassier than the current version imo. Personally I think the current model is technically the better of the two, but I like the original more. Way too much fun to listen to. The bass is unnecessary and it's awesome. Very unique.


----------



## doggiemom

Just a heads up that Gearbest has the colorful ZSTs on sale:  $15.99 without phone controls, $16.99 with:
 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598797.html?wid=21
  
 To save additional money:
 - Shop through eBates (1% back, but hey, it adds up if you buy as much stuff as I do) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 - Here is a coupon code for 10% off sitewide:

  
  
 I am not affiliated with Gearbest, just trying to help my fellow addicts...... I mean, Head-fiers save some money.


----------



## CoiL

aadee said:


> Any mods for ZST to improve mids? They sound piercing on few tracks.


 
 Still waiting for my ZST but sure I will figure out some mods 
  
 How to really improve mids? - "sponge" is not my method - I`ll always keep sound "canal" clear as possible


----------



## DikZak

griffith said:


> So I made a post on the sub $100 Chinese IEM thread with short one line reviews of all the earphones I've received so far. Most of them are KZ ones so I decided to quote that reply here in its entirety. Feel free to ask me any questions but if they're not related to KZ earphones please ask them in the other forum thread. I will leave a link to it after the quote.
> 
> 
> Original thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/805930/best-sub-100-chinese-brands-earphones-thread-hidden-gems-personal-favorite-best-deals-and-impressions-sharing-for-audiophile-on-budget-include-best-chinese-headphones-dap-section/1860#post_13122530




I bought te ATR, while I like them for some of my songs, but not for all of them. I find them a bit dark for my taste and missing some sprankle (in the treble.) With some tracks they sound a bit "muddy" especially when more instruments are in the mix. When listening to sing-songwriter/acoustic session the are superb imo.

Would the ZST give me the sound signature I would be looking for?


----------



## Griffith

dikzak said:


> I bought te ATR, while I like them for some of my songs, but not for all of them. I find them a bit dark for my taste and missing some sprankle (in the treble.) With some tracks they sound a bit "muddy" especially when more instruments are in the mix. When listening to sing-songwriter/acoustic session the are superb imo.
> 
> Would the ZST give me the sound signature I would be looking for?


 
  
 The ZST will give you a bright and engaging sound and significantly more detail but they don't have as much sub bass as the ATR. There is nothing like the ZST in the rest of the KZ lineup. The ATE would be the closest in my opinion, for they are the only non-dark or non-bassy earphone in the lineup I've tried.
  
 The ZS3, the ATR, the ED9 are all bassy earphones, with the ZS3 sounding the most balanced and the ED9 having the strongest bass and best soundstage (out of those 3, not out better than the ATE or the ZST).
  
 So yes, the ZST would definitely give you a brighter sound but if you find them too fatiguing then consider getting the KZ ATE.


----------



## Podster

@B9Scrambler spot on as usual my friend, just to put a smile on your face I had to drop a pair of ED12's in the order for $7.85
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like you I love me some KZ and even though they've gotten bad press around here they sure can't be any different than all my other double DD iem's ala VJJB etc.!
  
 Some pretty good pressions yourself Griffith, IMO the majority of all KZ iem's are bass centric but the new ZST hybrid is a real departure and why so many are finding them very detailed, for a first try KZ once again IMO has made a great entry into the hybrid foray especially for the price. I'm not quite to B9's point with my ED9's but as said on some tracks treble can drive one batty but overall and most the time they are magical
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 YMMV
  
 ZS3 is very neutral and warm sounding but that is not a bad thing and pretty much any KZ can be listenable especially if you have some good EQ options (did the Pod really just say EQ)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL
  
 As I have said in previous post KZ keeps refining these models and to date and IMO the ZS3 is the excellent final rendition of the ZS lineup as is the ATR for the ATE lineup. The original amped ZN1 is beast all of it's own but the ZN1 Mini is what the original ZN1 was supposed to be but I was happy KZ kept listening to all of us and came out with the Mini, for the money and if you like the entire bass spectrum it's very hard to beat for the price. After my 15 year old killed another pair by his bad storage and care I ordered myself 3 backup pairs to last, making his azz get a summer job to buy his next pair/s from me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 With all the Taxi service I do for my kids not to mention errands for the wife I keep KZ ZST, ZS3, ZN1 and 4in1's in the console of my car at all times
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happy New Year KZ fans


----------



## DikZak

griffith said:


> The ZST will give you a bright and engaging sound and significantly more detail but they don't have as much sub bass as the ATR. There is nothing like the ZST in the rest of the KZ lineup. The ATE would be the closest in my opinion, for they are the only non-dark or non-bassy earphone in the lineup I've tried.
> 
> The ZS3, the ATR, the ED9 are all bassy earphones, with the ZS3 sounding the most balanced and the ED9 having the strongest bass and best soundstage (out of those 3, not out better than the ATE or the ZST).
> 
> So yes, the ZST would definitely give you a brighter sound but if you find them too fatiguing then consider getting the KZ ATE.




Thanks. Seems the ZST might fit in my preferences. 

What kind of music do you listen to?
And if you only could have one IEM, which one on your list would that be?


However I think I should keep my wallet in my pocket as I still have Senzer H1 and VivoEX800 on my way. If someone has a comparisation of one of these against the ZST, that would be appriciated.


----------



## Griffith

dikzak said:


> Thanks. Seems the ZST might fit in my preferences.
> 
> What kind of music do you listen to?
> And if you only could have one IEM, which one on your list would that be?
> ...


 
  
 I listen to all kinds of music, hip hop, rock, pop, classical, blues, progressive rock, electronic... lately I've been listening to Nujabes a lot, but I also listened to, for example, Mumford & Sons which is a complete departure.
  
 Only one? Well in terms of sound quality it would easily be the ZST. But if I was considering other aspects such as their fit, their accessories I might be inclined to pick the Tennmak Pro instead. I say this because they fit more snuggly in my ears and don't require any special adjusting whereas the ZST can take a while to settle, even though the tips are great, there's something with the ZST's shape  that makes them take a while to "sit" in my ear. On another note, one of the reasons why I got the Tennmak outside of their fit comfort was the ability to also use them as a wireless headset thanks to an accessory sold and I have to say the wireless sound quality is impressive and surpasses any other bluetooth earphone I currently own, including the KZ HDSE and other much more expensive ones. Here's that accessory:
   
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Tennmak-MMCX-Bluetooth-4-1-Cable-Detachable-Cable-for-Tennmak-PRO-Piano-SE215-SE315-SE425-SE535/1183804_32743693143.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.lRx5hB


----------



## DikZak

to.m said:


> Absolutely no, I know what my ZST have inside  it was about kz ie80 which Shinry mentioned.
> 
> By the way, I must confess something...have been cheating on my ZST recently...an audio-affair with KINERA BD005, I got them 2 days ago and I like them a lot




How would you compare the kinera against the ZST?


----------



## Highspeedfreak

Still loving my ZSTs. My ATR and ZS3 arrived yesterday. The ZS3 doesn't work but I really like the ATR. Still prefer ZST. But the ATR are stupid good for $5.

Ten years on head-fi today btw.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL, YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR ANSWER (mostly)​
> 
> ​
> 
> ...


 TY MASTER KZ. ALL ANSWER HAS BEEN ANSWERED BY THE MASTER KZ: B9SCRAMBLER. THANKS YOU FOR CLARIFY THE SOUND SIGNITURE OF KZ ZS3, ATR, ZS1,ZN1 AND THE BEST KZ LINE THE KZ ZST. I SHALL TQ TO MASTER B9SCRAMBLER TO HELPING US FOR LETTING HIS TIME TO ANSWER MOST OF THE QUESTIONS THAT BEEN CONFUSED FOR A WHILE AGO. TQ MASTER


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> TY MASTER KZ. ALL ANSWER HAS BEEN ANSWERED BY THE MASTER KZ: B9SCRAMBLER. THANKS YOU FOR CLARIFY THE SOUND SIGNITURE OF KZ ZS3, ATR, ZS1,ZN1 AND THE BEST KZ LINE THE KZ ZST. I SHALL TQ TO MASTER B9SCRAMBLER TO HELPING US FOR LETTING HIS TIME TO ANSWER MOST OF THE QUESTIONS THAT BEEN CONFUSED FOR A WHILE AGO. TQ MASTER


 
  
 Got cho back brah. Don't even mess about.


----------



## Mus1c

B9ScramblerI know that CHU GOT MAI BACK boiii. But chu got the power of kz knowledge ohhhh dammn.tq ma boii u just save this thread brah from other confusing new members.XD


----------



## B9Scrambler

podster said:


> @B9Scrambler spot on as usual my friend, just to put a smile on your face I had to drop a pair of ED12's in the order for $7.85
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Happy New Year to you too buddy! 
  
 Hopefully your ED12 sounds better than mine. Pretty sure it uses the same DD as the ZST but without the BA backing it up, hence the wonky tuning. I keep quiet about the ED9. They just don't mesh with me all that well, BUT, I agree that they're quite good and still recommend them as one of the best first KZs you can buy. Also right there with you on the ZS3 and ATR being excellent final renditions of their respective lineups.


----------



## irsan

griffith said:


> So I made a post on the sub $100 Chinese IEM thread with short one line reviews of all the earphones I've received so far. Most of them are KZ ones so I decided to quote that reply here in its entirety. Feel free to ask me any questions but if they're not related to KZ earphones please ask them in the other forum thread. I will leave a link to it after the quote.
> 
> 
> Original thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/805930/best-sub-100-chinese-brands-earphones-thread-hidden-gems-personal-favorite-best-deals-and-impressions-sharing-for-audiophile-on-budget-include-best-chinese-headphones-dap-section/1860#post_13122530




I have zst and zs3 and my impressions is same with you 

Zs3: warm, smooth, balance.
Zst: lil bit bright, more engaging, more clarity and special in treble.


----------



## dudinacas

b9scrambler said:


> BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL, YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR ANSWER (mostly)​  ​ ​
> 
> ZST is the most grandiose sounding of the bunch. Lots of energy, big bass, bright treble, aggressive midrange. ZS3 is imo warmer, darker, more natural sounding, and more mid-bass focused. Less fatiguing too. Soundstage is similar in size but ZST is a step up in terms of raw detail and accuracy, imaging quality, and instrument separation. Those are it's best qualities I feel.
> 
> ...


 
 This is just hypothetical, but what if they didn't remove the crossover or brass ring in the ZS2? I know the ZS2 was originally the same as the ZS1.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dudinacas said:


> This is just hypothetical, but what if they didn't remove the crossover or brass ring in the ZS2? I know the ZS2 was originally the same as the ZS1.


 

 The only person I know of that had the ZS2 wasn't very forthcoming when I asked about it. If the ZS2 is the same as the original ZS1, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 Edit: Darn, no crossover 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Same setup as the newer ZS1 I tried and the ZN1 Mini. Booooo!


----------



## dudinacas

b9scrambler said:


> The only person I know of that had the ZS2 wasn't very forthcoming when I asked about it. If the ZS2 is the same as the original ZS1, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
> 
> Edit: Darn, no crossover
> 
> ...


 
 That sucks :/


----------



## B9Scrambler

dudinacas said:


> That sucks :/




Agreed


----------



## BWAS1000

Somehow the EDR2 I ordered December 20th has cleared customs, but the Redmi Note 3 Pro i ordered the 11th and HDS3 I also ordered the 20th still say China. Hmm....


----------



## KcLKcL

Just bought the ZS3

Oh.My.God.

I am amazed, this is amazing. Best $10 ever spent.

Full of energy and it picks so much details. Damn.

Will getting the silver cable improves the mid though? I feel like it's a bit recessed and the bass takes over the mid a LITTLE bit..

But this is.. AMAZING!

At first I wanted to get a ZST but all I see here is mixed reviews of them, some said it's sibilance, some said it'a not, I see the ZS3 has more positive reviews so I bought this and I can say this is one of the best $10 I ever spend.


----------



## Shawn71

kclkcl said:


> Just bought the ZS3
> 
> Oh.My.God.
> 
> ...




You will love the upper registry too same as low end,it sparkle on some tracks,reminiscent of my tf10.......enjoy your new zs3!


----------



## CoiL

griffith said:


> I'll leave further thoughts into how I think the KZ ZST sound until the honeymoon period dies off and I've tried out more music with them, possibly also try to burn them for a few hours to see if that has any noticeable impact but I'd like to point out some things to people considering purchasing them.
> 
> If you own and like the KZ ATR or the KZ ZS3 and have heard that the ZST is an upgrade, it's not. The KZ ZST is as much of an upgrade to those earphones as sports car is an upgrade to a family sedan. They are very different sounding types of earphones. The ZST has a broader soundstage, less prominent bass and generally brighter sound signature. If you want an upgrade or something else within the same type of sound as the ATR or ZS3, consider getting the KZ ED9 or the ZS1. I'm particularly fond of the ZS1 as a very unique sounding warm and bassy earphone.
> 
> If you own the KZ ATE and you'd like something that sounds better then get the ZST. The ZST as not as neutral sounding as the ATE, they're far too bright for that, but out of all the KZ earphones I have they sound the most similar to the ATE. What you can expect is a similar soundstage and instrument separation, lush vocals that are, in my opinion, a clear improvement over the ATE and brighter highs. Female voices on the ZST are particularly fantastic and have a great presence to them. If you enjoy the ATE but wished you had something that sounded less dry than they do with some music the ZST are what you want.


 
 Quote:


bhazard said:


> I got my KZ ZST today after about a month. These are the best KZ set available IMO, and I've nearly heard them all.
> 
> Yes, these need EQ to fix some high end splash, but otherwise they are very capable. The first run was probably a bad batch.
> 
> Thumbs up.


 
 Thanks for impressions. Now I have little more hope for ZST sound fit for my taste when they finally arrive. But seems like ZST have "same problem" as ED9, for me - "splashy" and somewhat unnatural highs? I`ll hear soon


----------



## wgrish7

So my Ostry KC06's gave in to the second law of thermodynamics, and I am looking for a replacement. Do any of the KZ earphones match or exceed the sound quality of the Ostry's? I am looking for tough build quality, which is what broke down on the Ostry's.


----------



## Ruben123

wgrish7 said:


> So my Ostry KC06's gave in to the second law of thermodynamics, and I am looking for a replacement. Do any of the KZ earphones match or exceed the sound quality of the Ostry's? I am looking for tough build quality, which is what broke down on the Ostry's.




No KZ will be as good as the ostry. You might give the edr2 and ed9 a try, but looking at other brands, you might find the Monoprice 8320, vivo xe800 and urbanfuns excellent too.


----------



## khighly

Tennmak Pro's are much better than the ATR. ATR's sound tinny and low quality.

 ZST is still my top.


----------



## pashhtk27

khighly said:


> Tennmak Pro's are much better than the ATR. ATR's sound tinny and low quality.
> 
> ZST is still my top.


 

 It's just the opposite for me! ATR are my top while ZST and tennmak pro sound 'tinnier' and splashy. To each his own I guess. 
 And it's not that I don't like bright earphones; love my **** 4in1 and Vivo Xe800 a lot!!

  


b9scrambler said:


> The only person I know of that had the ZS2 wasn't very forthcoming when I asked about it. If the ZS2 is the same as the original ZS1, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
> 
> Edit: Darn, no crossover
> 
> ...


 

 I also have the ZS2, didn't like them much. It just sounds weird to me: warm but hollow and croppy. Not a good match with my music, I guess.


----------



## Deenlikestea

Guys, am a newbie here. I am a basshead, will the ed11 suit me.ps i already have a zs3 and it is not 'bassy' enought


----------



## ayao

deenlikestea said:


> Guys, am a newbie here. I am a basshead, will the ed11 suit me.ps i already have a zs3 and it is not 'bassy' enought


 
 If the ED11 is the same as the ED10, I can tell you that while the sub-bass is present, there isn't enough midbass for me to classify them as "basshead". If I increase the volume, the high-mid/low-treble peak becomes slightly unbearable for me.
 I'd highly recommend the ZS1; it's one of the bassiest IEMs I've heard (I haven't heard the Sony XB90EX but I do own the Aurisonics ASG-2). My ZS1 is "old" with the brass rings and crossover, but I did own the ZN1 and ZN1 mini, and from what I remember they all had similar amounts of bass.


----------



## Ruben123

deenlikestea said:


> Guys, am a newbie here. I am a basshead, will the ed11 suit me.ps i already have a zs3 and it is not 'bassy' enought




Also try the awei q9, it's cheap and offers good bass. It's being underappreciated a lot while it's one of the best deals in audio


----------



## Deenlikestea

ruben123 said:


> Also try the awei q9, it's cheap and offers good bass. It's being underappreciated a lot while it's one of the best deals in audio



Wait, so should I buy the awei q9 or ed11


----------



## Deenlikestea

Or can recommend me some budget bass head iems, I already have the rock zircons


----------



## hoerlurar

ruben123 said:


> Also try the awei q9, it's cheap and offers good bass. It's being underappreciated a lot while it's one of the best deals in audio


 

 There's lots of awei earphones out there, but they don't seem to be popular here at head-fi. i own one pair that i bought many years ago, they sounded crap. But maybe they've improved since then? Their bluetooth headsets seem to be quite bassy. So maybe they aren't as good as KZ and that's why we don't talk about awei much here at head-fi?


----------



## Keller1

Did a Memorywire-ectomy on my ZS3 a few days ago. And I have to say that  The Fit on ZS3 has grown on me.
  
 These things are eargloves. They just fit in so well and eliminate microphonics.
  
 I love the hell out of the ZST, and think it's the superior sounding earphone, but damn does the ZS3 have the ergonomics down .


----------



## crabdog

khighly said:


> Tennmak Pro's are much better than the ATR. ATR's sound tinny and low quality.
> 
> ZST is still my top.


 
 ATR is far from tinny and low ql. Try different tips? Could be a fit/seal issue.


----------



## Deenlikestea

Any recommendations for cheap bass heavy earphones


----------



## Lorspeaker

ED9


----------



## Ruben123

hoerlurar said:


> There's lots of awei earphones out there, but they don't seem to be popular here at head-fi. i own one pair that i bought many years ago, they sounded crap. But maybe they've improved since then? Their bluetooth headsets seem to be quite bassy. So maybe they aren't as good as KZ and that's why we don't talk about awei much here at head-fi?




The es800m and q9 are quite good, same value as KZ earphones imho. The formers build is even better than most kzs.


----------



## Ruben123

deenlikestea said:


> Wait, so should I buy the awei q9 or ed11




The awei has more bass, so since it's so cheap, I'd get one to try out.


----------



## Deenlikestea

OK guys, looks like I will be buying the es800m


----------



## B9Scrambler

deenlikestea said:


> Guys, am a newbie here. I am a basshead, will the ed11 suit me.ps i already have a zs3 and it is not 'bassy' enought




The DT5 would be a good one. It's the closest KZ I'be heard bass-wise to the original ZS1. Dual-driver as well.


----------



## robervaul

vincehill24 said:


> Still curiously waiting for news on the KZ ZSR though. Hope it'll be early next year.


 
 They will release it after Chinese New year. It is expected to be available on Feb.


----------



## Kerkyboi

OK, so I've been gone for a while and thread was a little too fast. Celebrate the holidays guys for Christ sake! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Anyway, Finally! this came in the mail today. Not the candies like everyone else was getting but hey, I like my stuff black anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Initial Impressions:
  
 Packaging : Came cellophane wrapped like my ZS3. Everything smells brand spanking new.
 Comfort : Definitely way easier and comfy than the ZS3.
 Fit : Easier on the ears, not as snug fit as the ZS3, Probably gonna change the tips sooner or later.
 Cable : Softer than I expected, ZS3's cable feel more durable but the cable definitely adds for the comfort of not having any memory wire on it.
 Build : Not as perfectly assembled as my ZS3, Maybe some bad QC issue from KZ, not sure, but I found the outer shell not tightly fitted into the main shell, my nails can literally fit the gaps, I'll post photos if someone else notices the same on their pair.
  
 Now the Sound,
 Highs : Harsh and sibilant, No details what so ever.
 Mids : Muddy, probably still drunk after all the booze this season.
 Lows : Gone for the holidays.
 Soundstage : None.
  
 Swear to God I was ready to throw it out after putting it on for the first time. I was disappointed, really disappointed, I was expecting it to be better than my ZS3, but then I gave it a chance, I took it off, kept the music playing, maxed the volume on my source, went to do the dishes and came back to it after about an hour.
  
 Now the REAL Sound,
 Highs : Well pronounced, probably will still get better after some more real burn in.
 Mids : Cleaner than my ZS3 that's for sure. Male vocals sound more nicer.
 Lows : Oh Hello there Mr. Boomy Bass, thought you're going to be gone for the holidays. Ok, Bass is definitely here now, Bass is more controlled and doesn't extend too much like the ZS3 but yeap it is bassy.
 Soundstage : Ok, He just came back, probably went with Mr. Bass. Soundstage feels narrower than my ZS3, I need to listen to it more to confirm this.
  
  
 Guys, take my word with a grain of salt, This are initial impressions I have with my pair and I am pretty sure this will improve a little bit more over time. I haven't played the right tracks and listened to it critically to compare it side by side with my ZS3 so again these are INITIAL impressions. I will post proper comparison regarding the two maybe if someone asked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Happy Holidays KZ PEEPS! Don't forget to go out and celebrate!


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Kerkyboi Nice purchase man! Hope you enjoy them. While it looks odd, that gap is supposed to be there. There are two vents hidden away inside above where it says 'ZST HIFI-Armature'. You can sorta see them here.


----------



## VinceHill24

robervaul said:


> They will release it after Chinese New year. It is expected to be available on Feb.


Great! Now i can start saving for it. Wondering how much will they price it this time.


----------



## Viber

deenlikestea said:


> OK guys, looks like I will be buying the es800m


 
  
 I have both and ES900 are much better and louder, they cost like 5$ on ebay.
  
 -Rock Zircon is more technically capable but the cable is not good.
 -I have Plextone X41M on the way and they are suppose to be for extreme bassheads. ​


----------



## chinmie

kerkyboi said:


> Swear to God I was ready to throw it out after putting it on for the first time. I was disappointed, really disappointed, I was expecting it to be better than my ZS3, but then I gave it a chance, I took it off, kept the music playing, maxed the volume on my source, went to do the dishes and came back to it after about an hour.


 
  
 Funny that you mentioned this, i just also had the same experience like this, with the TY HI-Z 32.
 when i first opened the box and tested it (it was in the morning), it sounded 2 dimensional, the mid is too recessed (extreme V shaped eq) . my friends came at the afternoon and we tested it, and they have the same opinions about it. fast forward to to night time, i listened the new metallica album on spotify (because i think that suits the earphone characteristic the best)....and after a while, i noticed the mids and soundstage opened up.
  
 mind you i don't really believe in burning in, and i also thought that it is only psychological after trying it for some time, but i listened to the same songs that i used to test them in the morning(also A/B ing it to my other monitors), it is changing sound
  
 I asked my friend to listen to it again this afternoon, and he was also mindblown because it sounded different (and heaps better than yesterday, he said).


----------



## flamesofarctica

viber said:


> Plextone X41M on the way and they are suppose to be for extreme bassheads.


 I tried these before I got more into earbuds. They scared me - I'm no basshead, and I was convinced were possessed by demons - and so I gave them away. The recipient said they were the best earphones he'd ever had and asked where he could get them, for spares. He likes bass. Both of us agreed they smelled a bit odd though :-D Hopefully that was just my pair.


----------



## Viber

flamesofarctica said:


> I tried these before I got more into earbuds. They scared me - I'm no basshead, and I was convinced were possessed by demons - and so I gave them away. The recipient said they were the best earphones he'd ever had and asked where he could get them, for spares. He likes bass. Both of us agreed they smelled a bit odd though :-D Hopefully that was just my pair.


 
  
 Oh man, i hope they don't suck.


----------



## CoiL

pashhtk27 said:


> khighly said:
> 
> 
> > Tennmak Pro's are much better than the ATR. ATR's sound tinny and low quality.
> ...


 
 Don`t mind him, he is being too subjective all the time and don`t consider other facts that ppl have different source gear, different hearing, different genre and sound preferences.
 ATR certainly do not sound tinny neither low quality and it`s pretty certain "fact" by many ppl here who have them. 
 But ATR has little "lacks/fault(s)" too (like most cheaper gear) - their soundstage is just average and echoes/reverbs don`t extend quite well to distance as they should.
 I personally prefer 5th gen ATE over ATR due to larger soundstage (in every direction but especially frontal depth) and little more distant out of headstage presentation.
 That`s probably why some find them too "dry" and boring. 
 But like I said in the beginning of post - a lot depends from source gear. ATR is best with source gear that has neutral signature but slight "warmth". With very neutral and revealing source it may actually turn rather "bright & harsh". With poor source (cheap smartphone) that has warm and low definition in details it can sound pretty meh.


----------



## flamesofarctica

viber said:


> Oh man, i hope they don't suck.


 They don't, don't worry  Just different tastes (aside from the pong and no-one else has complained). It's just a serious amount of bass, which wasn't for me, but which others love.

I played the bit from Why So Serious from The Dark Knight that is good for testing sub-bass, and it was all there, believe me.


----------



## Viber

flamesofarctica said:


> They don't, don't worry  Just different tastes (aside from the pong and no-one else has complained). It's just a serious amount of bass, which wasn't for me, but which others love.
> 
> I played the bit from Why So Serious from The Dark Knight that is good for testing sub-bass, and it was all there, believe me.


 
  
 Why not use EQ then?


----------



## Kerkyboi

b9scrambler said:


> @Kerkyboi
> Nice purchase man! Hope you enjoy them. While it looks odd, that gap is supposed to be there. There are two vents hidden away inside above where it says 'ZST HIFI-Armature'. You can sorta see them here.



Thanks! To tell you honestly, these are 2 months in the making before it reached me. There is just too much problems with Gearbest for almost all my KZ orders reason why I quickly got a little disappointed.

Ok, So I did a close examination on my pair and you are right, there are two vents just above "ZST HIFI Armature". Oh lord you don't know how relieved I am right now. At least now I know the "flaws" I encountered earlier are all normal. I actually suspected this gaps to be causing the bad sound quality I heard when I first popped them in my ears. I even tried to close them up properly! 



chinmie said:


> Funny that you mentioned this, i just also had the same experience like this, with the TY HI-Z 32.
> when i first opened the box and tested it (it was in the morning), it sounded 2 dimensional, the mid is too recessed (extreme V shaped eq) . my friends came at the afternoon and we tested it, and they have the same opinions about it. fast forward to to night time, i listened the new metallica album on spotify (because i think that suits the earphone characteristic the best)....and after a while, i noticed the mids and soundstage opened up.
> 
> mind you i don't really believe in burning in, and i also thought that it is only psychological after trying it for some time, but i listened to the same songs that i used to test them in the morning(also A/B ing it to my other monitors), it is changing sound
> ...



lol! Actually, I am also a believer of burning in. I have encountered this many times with different types of audio equipment and I am pretty sure it wasn't just my ears trying to cope up with the new sound sig he's picking up. 

On the other hand, What I don't believe in is 100+ hours of burning in. A few hours of burn in is enough to bring out the true colors of an audio equipment. For me, that is where the actual argument starts, if there is any change in sound comparing two gears one with hundreds of hours of air time over one with only a few, I can safely say there is little to none.


----------



## flamesofarctica

viber said:


> Why not use EQ then?




I always forget that's an option!!

But mostly, I just knew someone who'd appreciate their signature more than me, and I'd started to move onto using earbuds more except where impractical (trains etc).

They were more a curiosity purchase based on the review on Audiobudget and the price, and so I'd considered them as a possible gift anyway.

They sounded awesome with Beastie Boys by the way, but I have the ATE-S for my few bassy needs.

As this has gone off topic, a brief additional KZ comment in order.

I gave quite a few presents of the coloured ZST over Christmas, they looked gorgeous in their boxes and they went down great. Not heard yet who's listened to them, but I'm hoping they'll be liked, as the carbon fibre ones sound good to me.


----------



## wgrish7

Does gearbest have the latest version earphones, or are they selling for ~$1 lower to get rid of old versions?


----------



## hoerlurar

Gearbest usually is (one of) the cheapest seller of KZ, and so far i don't think there has been any suggestions that gearbest are selling older batches than the rest or b-stock or anything


----------



## robervaul

chaiyuta said:


> Upcoming ZST Pro 10 BA drivers. High jump from KZ's 2-drivers models.


 
  
 This is probably the design of the ZSR PRO.


----------



## Keller1

robervaul said:


> This is probably the design of the ZSR PRO.


 


 HNNNNNNG.
  
 They're making a CA-"inspired" IEM?
  
 I Love these guys.
  
 EDIT: Nevermind, these are an actual photo of the CA Nova. Probably not going to be as blatant as this.


----------



## TrixtonSk8

I'm intrigued


----------



## macky112

b9scrambler said:


> BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL, YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR ANSWER (mostly)​
> 
> ​
> 
> ...




Thank you HE-MAN!


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

So i have the ZST now for a couple of days including the Fiio A3 amp and i have tryed several Flac music files and i still like it alot. i have about 20 hours of listening on them and i find the high frequenties to be a bit to much but with my Player Pro app on my phone i can adjust the 16K minus 3db and than the sound is fine .. I find the mid tones to be somewhere in the back of the room .. this is not the best part of the ZST in mine opinion. dont get me wrong, there is some Mid tones but not that much .. than the Bass .. I like this .. I am very impressed with the low tones of this ZST set .. not just the electronic dance bass ore the bass pedals but also bass gituar and other low freq. are impressive.. its is not TO loud but exremely powerfull. 
  
 Wearing them is another thing .. I have tryed all 3 sizes of the earplugs that came with the set and the biggest set will give me the best sound but they are just a little to big and are not realy comftable. so i tryed several other ones from other brands and i found a set them will fit perfect but they do not sound that good. . so back to the originals,.. I also seem to have funny ears .. i can get the cable to sit easy arround my ears and the cable wil flip over to the front very easy .. i have to find a solution for this.. 
  
 Now this is another test i did .. i went to a hifi shop where you can listen to hig hend earplugs with a set of fresh earplugs to a burned in set of IEM .. i tryed several from Senheisser , Focal , Sony and Shure .. Only the Focal was better in the staging ,high and mid tones .. but the ZST was better in the Bass tones. . i even let the salesman in the shop listen to the ZST .. he was suprized and liked it alot but he also pointed out the lack of mid tones. . than again when i told him these were less than 20 euro .. he wanted to buy my set ... lol .. 
  
 so i ordered 6 sets of ZST. just as backup and a set of ATR and ZS1 .. just to tru and may be find some more mid tones. .. 
 to bad i started out with the ZST.. will be hard to beat .. 
  
 Oohh i do have a very nice solution to stick the Fiio on your phone without using the rubber bands.. Here in the Netherlands we can buy those small silicone matts to lay down on the dashboard of your car .. you can put a phone ore keys ore sunglasses on them and they stick and dont fall down ..may be you are familiar with them .. so i bought one for 80 cents and cut them in a size of 2 cm bij 6 cm and patched that on the Fiio and than on the back of the phone.. sucked right into eachother and this is perfect .. no bands ore whatever needed .. 
  
 best regards.


----------



## khighly

Coming back from using the Tennmak Pro's almost exclusively since Christmas, it takes quite some time for your brain to adjust to the highs of the ZST's. At first they sound harsh and sibilant, but a few hours in you get smooth clarity when your brain switches on the "Auto-EQ" .


----------



## TrixtonSk8

khighly said:


> Coming back from using the Tennmak Pro's almost exclusively since Christmas, it takes quite some time for your brain to adjust to the highs of the ZST's. At first they sound harsh and sibilant, but a few hours in you get smooth clarity when your brain switches on the "Auto-EQ" .


 
  
 Brain burn-in


----------



## wgrish7

Did any of you get 50 GB on gearbest for signing up?
 During checkout, I used 50gb and got $1 off. I did not know I had 50 GB.


----------



## Thiago Melo

Guys so here in brazil we have an iem called she8000 from philips, i didnt find it in gearbest or other stores so if someone has already tried it how is it compared to kz iems? also wich is better: zs1, ed9, hds3, edr2;edr1, ed4 or ed3m? or at least the bests of these. ty ;v


----------



## Kerkyboi

keller1 said:


> HNNNNNNG.
> 
> They're making a CA-"inspired" IEM?
> 
> ...


 
 Judging by the molds on the box, It does seem like its going to look a lot like the Nova.
  


wgrish7 said:


> Did any of you get 50 GB on gearbest for signing up?
> During checkout, I used 50gb and got $1 off. I did not know I had 50 GB.


 
 Yeah you will get points for doing some stuff on their website.
  


hoerlurar said:


> Gearbest usually is (one of) the cheapest seller of KZ, and so far i don't think there has been any suggestions that gearbest are selling older batches than the rest or b-stock or anything


 
 They are the cheapest. Wait for the flash sales and also use some GB points.


----------



## Ruben123

Hey guys,  I promised to keep you updated on this. I bought this cheap bluetooth earphone ($4): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wireless-Neckband-Bluetooth-Headset-Sports-headphone-Earphone-Stereo-Earbuds-Earpiece-With-Microphone-For-Phone/32687812766.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_9999_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_10078_10079_427_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10050_10107_10051_10106-10050_9999,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_2&btsid=868d404e-5ade-4f05-8e18-aefa36ee837e
  
 ... and let my brother open it up, and solder on of my old, broken cable IEMs to it. Piece of cake. I got my IEM working again, I got a bluetooth headphone and it's cheap too! Works brilliantly. No disconnections, very few distortions (only in almost complete silence you could hear some background, but it might be my 16 ohm in-ears). They go very loud also.
  
 I'd say get one (or a few), buy some KZs too (ATR, EDR2), cut the cable and goooooooooooooo .


----------



## hoerlurar

Nice DIY idea! the sound is good enough as well then?
  
 I'm happy with my qcy qy19 bluetooth earphones, but it's always good knowing the DIY ideas are working!


----------



## TrixtonSk8

Tennmak MMCX Bluetooth 4.1 Cable, Detachable Cable for Tennmak PRO,Piano,SE215 SE315 SE425 SE535 SE846 UE900 earphone  
 I was looking at these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tennmak-MMCX-Bluetooth-4-1-Cable-Detachable-Cable-for-Tennmak-PRO-Piano-SE215-SE315-SE425-SE535/32743693143.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.UUEkVN
  
 Anyone know if they will work with any of the KZ line?  Or, are there any similar to the one I posted with swappable connections for other headphone lineups?
  
 EDIT: Alternatively, any good non-swappable bluetooth IEMs for sport use (such as QCY QY19 above)?


----------



## Ruben123

hoerlurar said:


> Nice DIY idea! the sound is good enough as well then?
> 
> I'm happy with my qcy qy19 bluetooth earphones, but it's always good knowing the DIY ideas are working!


 

 I hadnt used the in-ears for years because the cable was broken but it sounded exactly as I remember. I have another same in-ear, also with broken cable lying around. Could test them, but things like volume matching would be awful so the conclusions might be worthless. Im happy with the sound and for this tiny amount of money.....


----------



## Griffith

trixtonsk8 said:


> Tennmak MMCX Bluetooth 4.1 Cable, Detachable Cable for Tennmak PRO,Piano,SE215 SE315 SE425 SE535 SE846 UE900 earphone
> I was looking at these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tennmak-MMCX-Bluetooth-4-1-Cable-Detachable-Cable-for-Tennmak-PRO-Piano-SE215-SE315-SE425-SE535/32743693143.html?spm=2114.13010308.0.0.UUEkVN
> 
> Anyone know if they will work with any of the KZ line?  Or, are there any similar to the one I posted with swappable connections for other headphone lineups?
> ...


 
  
 I have that adapter, they sound incredible with the Tennmak Pro. As far as I know KZ has no earphones with MMCX connectors so I'm afraid it wouldn't work but if you're looking for an impressive wireless sound quality pair I highly recommend grabbing that bluetooth cable and a pair of Tennmak Pro. It beats any Bluetooth earphone I've tried so far which include some of the highest regarded models here on head-fi and not by a small margin.


----------



## Keller1

griffith said:


> I have that adapter, they sound incredible with the Tennmak Pro. As far as I know KZ has no earphones with MMCX connectors so I'm afraid it wouldn't work but if you're looking for an impressive wireless sound quality pair I highly recommend grabbing that bluetooth cable and a pair of Tennmak Pro. It beats any Bluetooth earphone I've tried so far which include some of the highest regarded models here on head-fi and not by a small margin.


 
 Sadly with bluetooth it's not all about sound quality.

 How's the battery life? The 3 hours of talk time they list on the page are absolutely unacceptable.


----------



## Deenlikestea

Guys you should try out the baseaus lark El-01
The bass is just mind blowing


----------



## thebluebulk

Maybe I got a defective pair of ZS3s? They sound maybe out of phase? Whatever the problem I don't like the sound at all and much prefer the sound of the KZ-RX over all the other KZs I've heard (ED9, ZS3, ED4, ED3M, ZS1 and a few more I dont rember the name) but they are not perfect by any means. I would like them to be a little flatter. They have a slight v shaped response leaving the vocals somewhat pushed back but the detail is amazing for the price and no noticeable sibilance. That's a big deal for me. ED12, GR and ZST are in the mail.


----------



## Shawn71

thebluebulk said:


> Maybe I got a defective pair of ZS3s? They sound maybe out of phase? Whatever the problem I don't like the sound at all and much prefer the sound of the KZ-RX over all the other KZs I've heard but they are not perfect by any means. I would like them to be a little flatter. They have a slight v shaped response leaving the vocals somewhat pushed back but the detail is amazing for the price and no noticeable sibilance. That's a big deal for me.




Plug the cable in such a way tge R & L marks in the cable align with the right & left on the ear-pieces......


----------



## thebluebulk

deenlikestea said:


> Guys you should try out the baseaus lark El-01
> The bass is just mind blowing


 
 this might be a beter topic for the basshead-iem thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/761433/head-fi-basshead-iem-thread-lists-page-1


----------



## thebluebulk

Yes I made sure they were connected correctly but thank you though.


shawn71 said:


> Plug the cable in such a way tge R & L marks in the cable align with the right & left on the ear-pieces......


----------



## thebluebulk

shawn71 said:


> Plug the cable in such a way tge R & L marks in the cable align with the right & left on the ear-pieces......


 
  


thebluebulk said:


> Yes I made sure they were connected correctly but thank you though.


 
 OK you did give me a great idea though. I just turned around one the connectors (reversing the polarity in one ear) and it fixed the sound WOW they do sound great! KZ quality control must suck. One earbud is wired out of phase. Ive never experienced this before with any headphone!


----------



## B9Scrambler

thebluebulk said:


> OK you did give me a great idea though. I just turned around one the connectors (reversing the polarity in one ear) and it fixed the sound WOW they do sound great! KZ quality control must suck. One earbud is wired out of phase. Ive never experienced this before with any headphone!


 
  
 I really don't get how everyone runs into so many issues with KZ stuff. I've purchased tons and have really only had issues when buying discontinued models that were old stock being cleared out, but at that point you kinda expect them to arrive with something wrong.


----------



## thebluebulk

thebluebulk said:


> OK you did give me a great idea though. I just turned around one the connectors (reversing the polarity in one ear) and it fixed the sound WOW they do sound great! KZ quality control must suck. One earbud is wired out of phase. Ive never experienced this before with any headphones


 
 I just heated up the preformed ear hook and reshaped it then I just jammed the connector in backwards and it worked great!


----------



## Griffith

keller1 said:


> Sadly with bluetooth it's not all about sound quality.
> 
> How's the battery life? The 3 hours of talk time they list on the page are absolutely unacceptable.


 
  
 Well I hadn't actually used them a lot since I receive them so I turned them on, started playing music on my phone at about 70/75% volume (what I'd consider ideal for them) and left them playing, partially in my ears, partially out of my ears. They died roughly three hours after I did this. Slightly less than 3 hours, but they hadn't been charged before hand and were showing "full charge" or close to it on my Android phone when I started the "test" so yeah, the three hours is correct.
  
 It's a bit less than I wish it had (my other bluetooth earphones have 4 hours of battery life) but it's by no means a deal breaker for me. I will mostly use them for working out or commuting and for my needs 3 hours is more than sufficient time to do both in a single day without charging.


----------



## Keller1

griffith said:


> Well I hadn't actually used them a lot since I receive them so I turned them on, started playing music on my phone at about 70/75% volume (what I'd consider ideal for them) and left them playing, partially in my ears, partially out of my ears. They died roughly three hours after I did this. Slightly less than 3 hours, but they hadn't been charged before hand and were showing "full charge" or close to it on my Android phone when I started the "test" so yeah, the three hours is correct.
> 
> It's a bit less than I wish it had (my other bluetooth earphones have 4 hours of battery life) but it's by no means a deal breaker for me. I will mostly use them for working out or commuting and for my needs 3 hours is more than sufficient time to do both in a single day without charging.


 

 That would essentially be my use aswell, but i'd prefer a package that was a bit bulkier that i could choose to not charge for like a week as opposed to a set that i need to charge after every use.


----------



## Griffith

keller1 said:


> That would essentially be my use aswell, but i'd prefer a package that was a bit bulkier that i could choose to not charge for like a week as opposed to a set that i need to charge after every use.


 
  
 There are other MMCX bluetooth cables/adapters but most of them disclose how much battery life you actually get.
  
 I found these two which claim to have better battery life: 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Replacement-Wireless-Cable-for-ie80-ie8-ie8i-Earphones-Bluetooth-Cable-With-Microphone-MMCX-for-iphone-samsung/32788855639.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.286.hhQAVN&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10050_10107_10106_10051,searchweb201603_0,afswitch_3&btsid=1d293d98-0e63-428b-8d42-d68d841983e7
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BT2-earphones-with-microphone-bluetooth-mmcx-cable-for-se535-se215-se846-earphone-for-bt-device/32788947598.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.214.hhQAVN&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10050_10107_10106_10051,searchweb201603_0,afswitch_3&btsid=1d293d98-0e63-428b-8d42-d68d841983e7


----------



## BWAS1000

Waiting patiently


----------



## KcLKcL

Whoa, my ATR actually sounds really similar to the ATH-IM50. But I think the ATR has too much bass that makes the clarity suffer.
  
 Does the ATE have better clarity than the ATR? I'm kind of interested.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Still waiting for my ZS3 I ordered from the 11/11 sale lmao.  Another package I ordered from china on 11/1 just came in yesterday.  So I guess shipping to the US is just taking f o r e v e r.


----------



## BWAS1000

sometechnoob said:


> Still waiting for my ZS3 I ordered from the 11/11 sale lmao.  Another package I ordered from china on 11/1 just came in yesterday.  So I guess shipping to the US is just taking f o r e v e r.




I had to order a Nextbit Robin and a LeEco Le S3 off Amazon because my Redmi Note 3 Pro and Redmi 3S still say they haven't cleared customs yet. And I leave the 6th, so me and my mom need new phones and this wasn't cutting it. Seller stopped responding as well


----------



## Griffith

kclkcl said:


> Whoa, my ATR actually sounds really similar to the ATH-IM50. But I think the ATR has too much bass that makes the clarity suffer.
> 
> Does the ATE have better clarity than the ATR? I'm kind of interested.


 
  
 Yes. And the ZST has even better clarity than the ATE but be warned, outside of the physical attributes, the ATE sounds NOTHING like the ATR. Both the ATE and ZST are unique in the KZ lineup for their clarity, imaging and detail whereas all other KZ earphones I own are more bass oriented.
  
 However, they aren't bass heavy, or as bass heavy as the ATR, the ZS3 or ED9.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i think....the ATR needs a good amp to shine.
 Half a doz of ATRs arrived after 14days from Gearbest...
 listening to it off my fone, ok not great..
 via the Xduoo X10 on low gain, quite good,
 but fantastic on HIGH Gain.
  
 Ditto the ZST on the X10, but this iem is more lightfooted, more separation..
 great for classicals, big orchestration. No sibilance. 
 ( has a tinny splash on my samsungfone though)


----------



## KcLKcL

griffith said:


> Yes. And the ZST has even better clarity than the ATE but be warned, outside of the physical attributes, the ATE sounds NOTHING like the ATR. Both the ATE and ZST are unique in the KZ lineup for their clarity, imaging and detail whereas all other KZ earphones I own are more bass oriented.
> 
> However, *they aren't bass heavy*, or as bass heavy as the ATR, the ZS3 or ED9.




And so is the IM50, IM50 bass thunp sounds a bit thin to my ears, even my Superlux HD668B has a bit more thump. But I like it as it doesn't overpower the mids. Oh well.. Gonna get more KZ loool


----------



## B9Scrambler

griffith said:


> Yes. And the ZST has even better clarity than the ATE but be warned, outside of the physical attributes,* the ATE sounds NOTHING like the ATR*. Both the ATE and ZST are unique in the KZ lineup for their clarity, imaging and detail whereas all other KZ earphones I own are more bass oriented.
> 
> However, they aren't bass heavy, or as bass heavy as the ATR, the ZS3 or ED9.


 
  
 We diverge pretty severely in our opinions observations of the ATR/ATE/ZST, lol.


----------



## CoiL

kclkcl said:


> But I think the *ATR has too much bass that makes the clarity suffer*.


 
 Check Your ATR port holes and see if they are jammed or something... ATR should be pretty "neutral" in bass area and not overpowering other frequencies, with nice tight kick and details.
 Maybe it`s about Your source gear matching? ATR needs littlebit amping to really shine.
 Or are You using foam tips? Foams are not good option with ATR because they "shadow" details and bass clarity.
  


lorspeaker said:


> i think....the ATR needs a good amp to shine.
> Half a doz of ATRs arrived after 14days from Gearbest...
> listening to it off my fone, ok not great..
> via the Xduoo X10 on low gain, quite good,
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## KcLKcL

coil said:


> Check Your ATR port holes and see if they are jammed or something... ATR should be pretty "neutral" in bass area and not overpowering other frequencies, with nice tight kick and details.
> Maybe it`s about Your source gear matching? ATR needs littlebit amping to really shine.
> Or are You using foam tips? Foams are not good option with ATR because they "shadow" details and bass clarity.




Which one is the port hole actually? Is it between the front & back?
No I don't mean the bass overpowering other frequency, this thing is pretty balanced but the treble isn't as forward as my IM50. Which is why it lacks the sense of clarity that I mentioned. Also I use the silicon tips from my IM50 as the stock KZ tips isn't comfortable (makes my ear canal feels itchy), yeah I agree foam hurts the treble so I only use foam or Sony Hybrids for IEMs that's too sibilant..

At this point I'm still thinking if I should replace my broken IM50 cable or just stick with ATE/ATR, lol. They really do sound similar.


----------



## DikZak

kclkcl said:


> Which one is the port hole actually? Is it between the front & back?
> No I don't mean the bass overpowering other frequency, this thing is pretty balanced but the treble isn't as forward as my IM50. Which is why it lacks the sense of clarity that I mentioned.




Exactly what I observe. Because treble is bit laid back it, it doesn't shine as much as I want to. 
Thinking to upgrade to ATE or ZST


----------



## CoiL

dikzak said:


> kclkcl said:
> 
> 
> > Which one is the port hole actually? Is it between the front & back?
> ...


 
 ATE has even less prominent "laid-back" treble than ATR. But it depends again from source gear signature, personal hearing and preferences.
 For me and with my gear, I prefer ATE 5th gen over ATR due to that slightly more "laid-back" treble (I`m sensitive to highs), larger soundstage and more out of the headstage imaging and presentation.
 You should go probably with ZST.


----------



## Kerkyboi

Just a heads up.
  
 Anybody else noticed that the colorfuls/candies/ZST pro are now available thru GearBest?
 I just followed up on my ED12's and noticed that the candies are now available.


----------



## Lorspeaker

charged up the battery on my dead 1stGen Ipad...
 the ATR sounded fullbodied, rich, and actually thumping...
 going thru some of my testsongs now...really good match. 
 If this had been a closed can that i am listening to, i would say it is a really GOOD can !!
  
 AXEL F...Bailamos...BEAT IT....all stunning.  This ATR hardly clocked in 10hours..wow..nice !!
  
  
  
 (edit : but of cos this setup isnt agile enough for more complex classicals.)


----------



## Shawn71

lorspeaker said:


> charged up the battery on my dead 1stGen Ipad...
> the ATR sounded fullbodied, rich, and actually thumping...
> going thru some of my testsongs now...really good match.
> If this had been a closed can that i am listening to, i would say it is a really GOOD can !!
> ...




Whats that closed back you might refer to, that the ATR sounds on par?......m50/v-moda/senns?

And what tips you usingbtw?.......


----------



## Lorspeaker

stock tips.... 
  
 i hate to name the closed cans, but alot of them are either v shaped...funneled sounding, 
 loose bloated bass.. on the one end ..to brittle at the top end of the spectrum.
 ( i auditioned those cans u mentioned, didnt buy any of them  )
  
 What i am hearing now is a good even spread out sound left to right..
 rich vocals, not sucked out...good grit on the trumpets/trombones.. ( listening to Wycliffe Gordon now )
 The drummings are clear, double bass twangging, hi hats tapping.... good realism.
  
 There is some 3D imaging on going now...a distant military drummer.... deep to the far left. Fantastic.
  
  
  
 ======
  
 dammm...i shouldnt have plugged in the ZS3.
  
 The notes just hang in the air a micro sec longer..
 the better isolation painting me into an intimate soundchamber,
 the rich sound ...seducing me.
  
 u guys better buy both the ATR ..and ZS3..
  
 arrrgh...buy every KZ u can afford...if u have an IPAD.


----------



## Shawn71

lorspeaker said:


> stock tips....
> 
> i hate to name the closed cans, but alot of them are either v shaped...funneled sounding,
> loose bloated bass.. on the one end ..to brittle at the top end of the spectrum.
> ...




ok NP. ......Was just keen to know abt that closed HP.


----------



## CoiL

lorspeaker said:


> What i am hearing now is a good even spread out sound left to right..
> rich vocals, not sucked out...good grit on the trumpets/trombones.. ( listening to Wycliffe Gordon now )
> The drummings are clear, double bass twangging, hi hats tapping.... good realism.
> 
> ...


 
 That`s the only "fault" I found with ATR - little too fast decays/reverbs and soundstage isn`t so open, some sounds should travel more far into distance if You have heard better soundstage cans/IEMs compared.
  
*BTW, this is KZ`s page 1000 ! Congrats fans!*


----------



## Thiago Melo

guys im goint to buy a kz right now i have already ordered a zs3 and now im thinking about the atr, some guys told me it is as good as kz ate for lesd, what do you guys think?


----------



## Ruben123

thiago melo said:


> guys im goint to buy a kz right now i have already ordered a zs3 and now im thinking about the atr, some guys told me it is as good as kz ate for lesd, what do you guys think?


 

 I wouldnt get a ZS3 and ATR, they sound too much alike. Try a totally different KZ unless you like the ZS3 but want a slightly different sound. Though what I would do then, is EQing a little.


----------



## trumpethead

ruben123 said:


> I wouldnt get a ZS3 and ATR, they sound too much alike. Try a totally different KZ unless you like the ZS3 but want a slightly different sound. Though what I would do then, is EQing a little.


I like then All! Especially for the money!


----------



## Shawn71

thiago melo said:


> guys im goint to buy a kz right now i have already ordered a zs3 and now im thinking about the atr, some guys told me it is as good as kz ate for lesd, what do you guys think?




In a nut shell, zs3 is atr on steroids,imo.......with the absence of strong bass and sparkle highs of zs3 and retaining the mids atr is no underdog in comparison. If you like your zs3 you may like atr,in a different way. But again persinal preference ,all it comes to,otherwise.


----------



## Thiago Melo

and the ed9? i am looking for a iem with that shape


----------



## Thiago Melo

earbuds to be exactly


----------



## Ruben123

thiago melo said:


> earbuds to be exactly


 

 Earbuds? Try TY Hi z 32 ohms ($3,80) and VE Monk + ($5).


----------



## chinmie

if you are looking for earbud you might want to check out the TY HI-Z 32


----------



## KcLKcL

My ATR still can't compete with IM50, just listened to them side by side, well, not surprised as you can get 10 ATRs for 1 IM50, ATR is only 10% of the price of the IM50 lol. It's still a really good value though.
  
 Now I wonder how the ZST will do against the IM50, being a dual driver IEM like the IM50..
  
 Oh god, I guess I have to resist temptation this time and just buy a new cable for my IM50 because my IM50 cable is really bad now.
 Meanwhile I'll stay with my ZS3, which is indeed ATR on steroids aka extended highs and lows.


----------



## James Freeman

Happy New Year!
  
 And, now I'm officially in the "page 1000" club!


----------



## Thiago Melo

so guys ve monk or ty hi z 32?


----------



## Kerkyboi

Im starting to get confused with my ZST, there are tracks that I love how it sounds and there are tracks I wish I'm wearing the ZS3.
 I am also starting to notice that ZST is a bit source sensitive.


----------



## Thiago Melo

guys im new in head-fi and im also looking for a speaker but i did not find a speaker thread if someone know could advice me pls :x


----------



## To.M

thiago melo said:


> earbuds to be exactly




Wait, you want earbuds like Ty Hi-Z 32 or IEMs like ED9??? 

As for earbuds, I prefer Ty Hi-Z to Monk+, more natural sound with better lows.


----------



## BWAS1000

Patience pays off


----------



## Shawn71

thiago melo said:


> guys im new in head-fi and im also looking for a speaker but i did not find a speaker thread if someone know could advice me pls :x




Im not sure which category of speakers you lookin for,like home theater,subs,book shelves etc but hope the following link might help you........just subscribe and shoot your question there someone will respond. 

Also Feel free to PM me if you want to, let me see if I can be of any help.

 http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum


----------



## Djsenjaya

For anybody who haven't tried zst. Don't bother it. To my ears it was one of yhe rubbish iem I've ever heard. 

Even ate and atr sound better than this hybrid. 
Lack of Soundstage and thd treble spark like crazy without control. Bass was dull and the mid was disappeared. The one good thing on this iem was the shape anf color of the body. I purchased the rainbow one and sure it looks like expensive one.


----------



## killerbond

shawn71 said:


> Im not sure which category of speakers you lookin for,like home theater,subs,book shelves etc but hope the following link might help you........just subscribe and shoot your question there someone will respond.
> 
> Also Feel free to PM me if you want to, let me see if I can be of any help.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum


 






 I'm looking for a 2.1 speakers under $100 for common use only: some gaming, musics and movies. Any good options at that range? 
  
 p/s: still waiting for my ATR 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!!


----------



## killerbond

djsenjaya said:


> For anybody who haven't tried zst. Don't bother it. To my ears it was one of yhe rubbish iem I've ever heard.
> 
> Even ate and atr sound better than this hybrid.
> Lack of Soundstage and thd treble spark like crazy without control. Bass was dull and the mid was disappeared. The one good thing on this iem was the shape anf color of the body. I purchased the rainbow one and sure it looks like expensive one.


 
 wow, 1 of a very few negative feedbacks for ZST in this thread I can tell. Besides the treble of the ZST, I don't like it either, others are good for me especially the price.


----------



## Shawn71

kclkcl said:


> My ATR still can't compete with IM50, just listened to them side by side, well, not surprised as you can get 10 ATRs for 1 IM50, ATR is only 10% of the price of the IM50 lol. It's still a really good value though.
> 
> Now I wonder how the ZST will do against the IM50, being a dual driver IEM like the IM50..
> 
> ...




zst is a dual hybrid with a dynamic driver and a balanced armature unlike im50, a dual dynamic, so zst might perform well up top bringing you more clarity/detail/airiness/bright due to the BA.......

On a side note, zs3 has more forward mids than my atr, for ex: as I type,I listen to "mellow yellow/ DONOVAN" the atr mids are recessed,even the chorus shouting at 7'o clock and 4'o clock are not that loud enough.

I already started to think when I first listened to the zs3,being a micro driver under $10 and its overall sound presentation, what wld eph-100,rockets and r2.x series brings to the table in comparison :blink:......ah just me thinkin.:rolleyes:


----------



## Shawn71

killerbond said:


> I'm looking for a 2.1 speakers under $100 for common use only: some gaming, musics and movies. Any good options at that range?
> 
> p/s: still waiting for my ATR  !!!




We'll take it to pm route......


----------



## CoiL

djsenjaya said:


> For anybody who haven't tried zst. Don't bother it. To my ears it was one of yhe rubbish iem I've ever heard.
> 
> Even ate and atr sound better than this hybrid.
> Lack of Soundstage and thd treble spark like crazy without control. Bass was dull and the mid was disappeared. The one good thing on this iem was the shape anf color of the body. I purchased the rainbow one and sure it looks like expensive one.


 
 Thank You for honest feedback, it`s appreciated for sure. But...
 Can You share more information about:
 ' What is Your source gear?
 ' What genre music You listen and prefer
 ' What kind of sound signature You like
 ' What tips did You use?
 ' Did You use amp?
 ' Did You check connection pins? Were they tightly and correct way installed?
 ' How much playtime Your ZST has been "doing"?
  
 Still waiting for my colorful ZST.


----------



## Djsenjaya

coil said:


> Thank You for honest feedback, it`s appreciated for sure. But...
> Can You share more information about:
> ' What is Your source gear?
> ' What genre music You listen and prefer
> ...



To answer this question. 

' What is Your source gear?
- Fiio X5 gen 2, ZTE axon 7. 

' What genre music You listen and prefer
- Jazz, instrumental, EDM,Jpop etc

' What kind of sound signature You like
- I like transparent with good vocal and treble. I also like bass but not a boomy one.

' What tips did You use?
-the original out of the box tips. 

' Did You use amp?
- I haven't drive it using amp. As my source was beyond capable of driving these cans. Moreover an amp will cost more than these cans is it? 

' Did You check connection pins? Were they tightly and correct way installed?
- I've make sure the pins was correctly installed based on some pictures on Internet. 
I've bought 2 pair of these zst. But I only try 1.i will try the other one after I have some times.

' How much playtime Your ZST has been "doing"?
- only a couple of songs. Edm, jazz and some country song. 

From these initial impressions I was disappointed with the sound. ATR and ates has warmer sound but in terms of quality, ATR and ate were superior. My dual hybrid xiaomi sound far better than these. 

I've collect some chi-fi for comparison. But this was my Ultimate disappointment


----------



## KcLKcL

@Djsenjaya actually your impression is different from what I heard from many people. Most people said ZST is still better than the Xiaomi Hybrid..

Well, I guess everyone should trust their own ears lol


----------



## ricemanhk

I agree.  I haven't tried the ATE and ATR, and some here do like the ATE more than the ZST, but I do have the xiaomi gen 5 (dual DD + BA hybrid) and I find the treble on that more harsh than my ZST.  The gen 5 treble calmed down a bit after some run-in and using different tips, but the ZSTs never had harsh treble to my ears in the first place.
  
 Suggest you give your ZST some run-in time first, and also try your other pair.  KZ quality control is not the best...perhaps your first pair had some issues?  Also double check your wires, the L and R letters should be facing out i.e. on the purple side of the colorfuls.
  
 The ZST is still the best IEMs I've tried in this price range and up to maybe 3-4x the price.  My UE triplefi10 are still better, but that's on a different level...and the difference to the ZST was MUCH smaller than I had expected.  The ZST is also way more comfier to my ears than the TF10s reverse mod...so they are now often gathering dust in the back of my drawer...


----------



## Djsenjaya

kclkcl said:


> @Djsenjaya actually your impression is different from what I heard from many people. Most people said ZST is still better than the Xiaomi Hybrid..
> 
> Well, I guess everyone should trust their own ears lol







ricemanhk said:


> I agree.  I haven't tried the ATE and ATR, and some here do like the ATE more than the ZST, but I do have the xiaomi gen 5 (dual DD + BA hybrid) and I find the treble on that more harsh than my ZST.  The gen 5 treble calmed down a bit after some run-in and using different tips, but the ZSTs never had harsh treble to my ears in the first place.
> 
> Suggest you give your ZST some run-in time first, and also try your other pair.  KZ quality control is not the best...perhaps your first pair had some issues?  Also double check your wires, the L and R letters should be facing out i.e. on the purple side of the colorfuls.
> 
> The ZST is still the best IEMs I've tried in this price range and up to maybe 3-4x the price.  My UE triplefi10 are still better, but that's on a different level...and the difference to the ZST was MUCH smaller than I had expected.  The ZST is also way more comfier to my ears than the TF10s reverse mod...so they are now often gathering dust in the back of my drawer... :rolleyes:




It was confirmed. The 2nd pair has Better sounding. The first pair has a very hurting treble spark. The Soundstage was very narrow. (the vocal seems coming out from the middle of my head) 
Left and right channel wasn't broken/swapped (checked using music file) 

I think i had bad quality one. The other zst was better with wider Soundstage. Not to sparkling treble. Controlled bass. I think i know why zst was a hype. (hearing from my 2nd pair)
Sadly my 2nd pair was my friends iem. And I've to keep my first pair.


----------



## KcLKcL

djsenjaya said:


> It was confirmed. The 2nd pair has Better sounding. The first pair has a very hurting treble spark. The Soundstage was very narrow. (the vocal seems coming out from the middle of my head)
> Left and right channel wasn't broken/swapped (checked using music file)
> 
> I think i had bad quality one. The other zst was better with wider Soundstage. Not to sparkling treble. Controlled bass. I think i know why zst was a hype. (hearing from my 2nd pair)
> Sadly my 2nd pair was my friends iem. And I've to keep my first pair.




I'm starting to think that your pair has a reversed polarity. Try reversing one of the cable plug (google: audiocheck polarity test)


----------



## ricemanhk

djsenjaya said:


> It was confirmed. The 2nd pair has Better sounding. The first pair has a very hurting treble spark. The Soundstage was very narrow. (the vocal seems coming out from the middle of my head)
> Left and right channel wasn't broken/swapped (checked using music file)
> 
> I think i had bad quality one. The other zst was better with wider Soundstage. Not to sparkling treble. Controlled bass. I think i know why zst was a hype. (hearing from my 2nd pair)
> Sadly my 2nd pair was my friends iem. And I've to keep my first pair.


 
 sorry to hear that, try the polarity swap test, or get a refund for it?


----------



## Griffith

Just got the ZST colorful and the much touted upgrade cable. Right now I don't notice anything immensely different from my other ZST model and no, the case doesn't say ZST Pro on it like some vendors describe the ZST colorful, it merely says "ZST", exactly the same as the other model's box. If you are skeptical I can take a picture.
  
 About the cable, while I don't notice huge differences in terms of the signature or sound quality, I'd like to clearly state that in terms of comfort and construction they are clearly an upgrade and one I recommend to anyone that owns either the ZS3 or ZST.
  
 Over the next hours I will be comparing the ZST and ZST colorful and if I consider them to sound more or less identical (my gut answer to that would be they do if I was judging right now) then I will compare them with and without the upgrade cable to try to discern if there are any differences.
  
 If you have any questions or any tips of things I should look into in the meantime, please let me know.


----------



## Lorspeaker

djsenjaya said:


> It was confirmed. The 2nd pair has Better sounding. The first pair has a very hurting treble spark. The Soundstage was very narrow. (the vocal seems coming out from the middle of my head)
> Left and right channel wasn't broken/swapped (checked using music file)
> 
> I think i had bad quality one. The other zst was better with wider Soundstage. Not to sparkling treble. Controlled bass. I think i know why zst was a hype. (hearing from my 2nd pair)
> Sadly my 2nd pair was my friends iem. And I've to keep my first pair.


 
  
  
 http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## hoerlurar

thanks for the polarity check link!
 i have a pair of B&W C5 that I bought for repair, and I had to cut the cable at the y-split and re-terminate them.
 Didn't really know if I had managed to get the polarity correct since the wires wasn't marked in any way. Seems like I had done them correctly!
 Too bad though that I haven't managed to get a fit good enough with them to use them very much...


----------



## BWAS1000

Well I got my EDR2 today. Very similar to the EDSE, just one issue. I only got one, not the 3 I ordered


----------



## Dagobert

bwas1000 said:


> Well I got my EDR2 today. Very similar to the EDSE, just one issue. I only got one, not the 3 I ordered



Maybe A little quick  since its 19 min after youre post hehe,but what do you think of them?I am waiting for the same ones to arive.Like to hear youre opinion.And hope that you get the other 2 aswell!


----------



## Thiago Melo

so guys which is better, ve monk for 7$ or kz atr for 5$


----------



## CoiL

thiago melo said:


> so guys which is better, ve monk for 7$ or kz atr for 5$


 
 For me - ATR. If You can find old version Monk not M+, then old Monk is better than ATR but note that they are totally different - one is earbud and other is IEM !


----------



## BWAS1000

dagobert said:


> Maybe A little quick  since its 19 min after youre post hehe,but what do you think of them?I am waiting for the same ones to arive.Like to hear youre opinion.And hope that you get the other 2 aswell!




They're pretty much the same as the EDSE, which is to say impeccable for the price. The cable is shorter and it has no mic, and didn't come with a case. So If I was to choose one, I'd choose the EDSE, and spend the extra $5. For $5.51 though, you can't really go wrong.

I was never good at describing sound, but the bass is clean, mids aren't recessed, vocals are crisp enough and all around its just a great little IEM. Again, I'd prefer the EDSE for the accesories and the cable, but its not like the EDR2 is a bad unit at all. I won't bother trying the EDR1 and ED2 anymore, since they said the ED2 and EDR2 are the same, and I was told the EDR1 and EDSE are the same. Which from my impressions, would make all 3 the same.

Also, I'm just gonna refund the $11 from the other 2 and get the ATE. The Friend I was gonna give one to already has an EDSE, and I don't think those in my school would appreciate the short cable.


----------



## Dagobert

bwas1000 said:


> They're pretty much the same as the EDSE, which is to say impeccable for the price. The cable is shorter and it has no mic, and didn't come with a case. So If I was to choose one, I'd choose the EDSE, and spend the extra $5. For $5.51 though, you can't really go wrong.
> 
> I was never good at describing sound, but the bass is clean, mids aren't recessed, vocals are crisp enough and all around its just a great little IEM. Again, I'd prefer the EDSE for the accesories and the cable, but its not like the EDR2 is a bad unit at all. I won't bother trying the EDR1 and ED2 anymore, since they said the ED2 and EDR2 are the same, and I was told the EDR1 and EDSE are the same. Which from my impressions, would make all 3 the same.
> 
> Also, I'm just gonna refund the $11 from the other 2 and get the ATE. The Friend I was gonna give one to already has an EDSE, and I don't think those in my school would appreciate the short cable.



I did saw the EDSE come along on Aliexpress but some way i choose for the edr2.But for the price maybe i will order de EDSE aswell if the EDR2 are mine cup of tea  When i ordered i saw the option for A mic on the EDR2 so i hope they arn't fake.I checked no mic.I did buy them at the flagship store on Aliexpress. 
But good to hear youre experience with the EDR2.Sounds really good to me i cant wait! And good news for the refund,and just a chance to get another different set of IEM


----------



## Kerkyboi

djsenjaya said:


> For anybody who haven't tried zst. Don't bother it. To my ears it was one of yhe rubbish iem I've ever heard.
> 
> Even ate and atr sound better than this hybrid.
> Lack of Soundstage and thd treble spark like crazy without control. Bass was dull and the mid was disappeared. The one good thing on this iem was the shape anf color of the body. I purchased the rainbow one and sure it looks like expensive one.



Lol, sounds like my first impressions on them straight out of the box. Burn it in for a few hours and check them. 




lorspeaker said:


> http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php



Hey thanks for this link! Im checking mine too if I did something wrong with my ZST as im liking my ZS3 more.


----------



## Griffith

So I got the ZST Colorful, been listening to them and the other ZST all day and then tried out the silver cable back and forth between the two units and at the risk of losing my credibility on this community I have to say I notice a small difference between the stock cable and the silver one. The silver cable seems to bring down the harshness of the highs slightly and also the mids. It sounds as if there was a very mild filter put upon them but the difference is ever so slight.
  
 To make sure I'm not imagining things, and since I only got the ZST colorful today I'm trying to burn them in and will go back at it tomorrow with fresh ears.
  
 Does anyone else with the silver cable have a similar experience or am I imagining things?


----------



## trumpethead

Got my ZST color today and they sound great toght ootb! The reg took a little time to break in but they finally did and oh boy do they sound good now...silver or regular cable these are the bomb!!


----------



## BWAS1000

dagobert said:


> I did saw the EDSE come along on Aliexpress but some way i choose for the edr2.But for the price maybe i will order de EDSE aswell if the EDR2 are mine cup of tea  When i ordered i saw the option for A mic on the EDR2 so i hope they arn't fake.I checked no mic.I did buy them at the flagship store on Aliexpress.
> But good to hear youre experience with the EDR2.Sounds really good to me i cant wait! And good news for the refund,and just a chance to get another different set of IEM




I hope they refund me. I'll either get the ATE or some USB-C cables. My new phone comes tomorrow, and it uses USB-C and has no headphone jack


----------



## Dagobert

bwas1000 said:


> I hope they refund me. I'll either get the ATE or some USB-C cables. My new phone comes tomorrow, and it uses USB-C and has no headphone jack



Good luck with that!I think it will work out.I will post mine findings when the EDR2 are in.


----------



## ricemanhk

griffith said:


> So I got the ZST Colorful, been listening to them and the other ZST all day and then tried out the silver cable back and forth between the two units and at the risk of losing my credibility on this community I have to say I notice a small difference between the stock cable and the silver one. The silver cable seems to bring down the harshness of the highs slightly and also the mids. It sounds as if there was a very mild filter put upon them but the difference is ever so slight.
> 
> To make sure I'm not imagining things, and since I only got the ZST colorful today I'm trying to burn them in and will go back at it tomorrow with fresh ears.
> 
> Does anyone else with the silver cable have a similar experience or am I imagining things?


 
 I also noticed a slight difference, but my difference was in the opposite direction.  The silver cable made things a little brighter, which I believe is more in line with the general silver plated vs pure copper wire differences.
  
 That said, I don't have 2 ZSTs to swap back and forth from, I had to manually change the cable and this takes a little time, so this is likely all just in my head.


----------



## danspy

kerkyboi said:


> Im starting to get confused with my ZST, there are tracks that I love how it sounds and there are tracks I wish I'm wearing the ZS3.
> I am also starting to notice that ZST is a bit source sensitive.



Yes the ZST does not sound so good on sources with more than 5ohm output impedance.


----------



## Griffith

ricemanhk said:


> I also noticed a slight difference, but my difference was in the opposite direction.  The silver cable made things a little brighter, which I believe is more in line with the general silver plated vs pure copper wire differences.
> 
> That said, I don't have 2 ZSTs to swap back and forth from, I had to manually change the cable and this takes a little time, so this is likely all just in my head.




Yeah, that's the thing... I think I'm the only person on this thread who has two pairs and can switch between them quickly.


----------



## ricemanhk

griffith said:


> Yeah, that's the thing... I think I'm the only person on this thread who has two pairs and can switch between them quickly.


 
  
 Have you tried A-B testing both pairs with both cables? i.e. black one with stock vs colorful with silver, then black with silver vs colorful with stock, and still find the same differences?
  
 I do like the comfort of the silver cable, but I use it with my smartphone most of the time and want the mic and play/pause button...


----------



## Griffith

ricemanhk said:


> Have you tried A-B testing both pairs with both cables? i.e. black one with stock vs colorful with silver, then black with silver vs colorful with stock, and still find the same differences?
> 
> I do like the comfort of the silver cable, but I use it with my smartphone most of the time and want the mic and play/pause button...




I have, and to similar results but I found that with the stock cable the colourful model is slightly harsher and I believe this is due to lack of burn in.

I left them burning over night and I will test them again with fresh ears once I feel that they sound as identical as possible, if that ever happens.

Let me be clear though, the difference is miniscule so I just want to make sure I eliminate or reduce all the other small factors that might have an impact on the test.


----------



## To.M

I have both cables for my ZST and now I'm waiting for the splitter cable for all kinds of comparing 

http://s.aliexpress.com/e2Era2y2


----------



## ricemanhk

Thanks @Griffith @To.M looking forward to your thoughts!


----------



## Ruben123

griffith said:


> I have, and to similar results but I found that with the stock cable the colourful model is slightly harsher and I believe this is due to lack of burn in.
> 
> I left them burning over night and I will test them again with fresh ears once I feel that they sound as identical as possible, if that ever happens.
> 
> Let me be clear though, the difference is miniscule so I just want to make sure I eliminate or reduce all the other small factors that might have an impact on the test.


 of all things that don't burn in, cables are the highest at the list so save your time


----------



## ricemanhk

If you read the posts, you'll know that he was referring to burning in the newly arrived ZST colorfuls, not the cables...


----------



## Griffith

ruben123 said:


> of all things that don't burn in, cables are the highest at the list so save your time




I'm not burning in the cable, I'm burning in the newer ZST.


----------



## jcjwebster

I have both sets of ZST, black and colored. They both have been used /burned in about 50+ hours, and to me they sound the same. I have the silver cable on order, it's still in China. I will compare once I recieve it. They are definitely one of my favorite iems.


----------



## BWAS1000

dagobert said:


> Good luck with that!I think it will work out.I will post mine findings when the EDR2 are in.


Seller messaged back and asked for pictures of what I received and the packaging. I tossed the packaging so I described the shipping label and sent a picture of the IEMs themselves. Let's hope they refund me for the missing 2


----------



## CoiL

griffith said:


> So I got the ZST Colorful, been listening to them and the other ZST all day and then tried out the silver cable back and forth between the two units and at the risk of losing my credibility on this community I have to say I notice a small difference between the stock cable and the silver one. The silver cable seems to bring down the harshness of the highs slightly and also the mids. It sounds as if there was a very mild filter put upon them but the difference is ever so slight.
> 
> To make sure I'm not imagining things, and since I only got the ZST colorful today I'm trying to burn them in and will go back at it tomorrow with fresh ears.
> 
> Does anyone else with the silver cable have a similar experience or am I imagining things?


 
 If You have multimeter - measure those two cable L/R/G impedances. In theory, Your "Silver" should have slightly higher impedance.
 I have two AE "silver" plated cables and one is ~0.8 Ohm, other ~1.2 Ohm - and I prefer higher impedance cable with my **** 4in1 because it gives me similar result as You noticed (mainly softens too harsh highs).


ricemanhk said:


> I also noticed a slight difference, but my difference was in the opposite direction.  The silver cable made things a little brighter, which I believe is more in line with the *general silver plated vs pure copper wire differences*.


 
 Depends, most HQ copper cables I have tried and own are actually better than those cheap AE "silver" plater cables.


----------



## ricemanhk

coil said:


> If You have multimeter - measure those two cable L/R/G impedances. In theory, Your "Silver" should have slightly higher impedance.
> I have two AE "silver" plated cables and one is ~0.8 Ohm, other ~1.2 Ohm - and I prefer higher impedance cable with my **** 4in1 because it gives me similar result as You noticed (mainly softens too harsh highs).
> Depends, most HQ copper cables I have tried and own are actually better than those cheap AE "silver" plater cables.


 
  
 My silver cables have lower impedance (~1.2ohm) than the stock ones (~1.6ohm), which matches what I hear.


----------



## Kerkyboi

danspy said:


> Yes the ZST does not sound so good on surses with more than 5ohm output impedance.



I have yet to try but it does sound different when plugged in my laptop. It sounds better compared to when I use my phone or tablet. 

I think I'm going back to my ZS3's. The ZST sounds a bit forward sounding for me and highs can become harsh with some tracks. I would have to agree that it sounds fairly good but it did not have the wow factor I had with my ZS3.


----------



## Dagobert

bwas1000 said:


> Seller messaged back and asked for pictures of what I received and the packaging. I tossed the packaging so I described the shipping label and sent a picture of the IEMs themselves. Let's hope they refund me for the missing 2



Good affort you are putting in for the refund,and they look good too!


----------



## rackinov

bwas1000 said:


> Seller messaged back and asked for pictures of what I received and the packaging. I tossed the packaging so I described the shipping label and sent a picture of the IEMs themselves. Let's hope they refund me for the missing 2



Very nice integration by parts in the background! A level C3? 
The AZ series look so interesting, I just wish I spoke Chinese to read all those reviews on their website. Also this thread is rediculous, just so many responses. What is the most popular model? I'm about to try out the ATE and I'm not sure what to expect from them except for value for money


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Looks like calculus 2 to me.  u-sub.  Calc 2 was fine for me, but calculus 3 is a completely different story lmao..
  
 I'm quite happy with my ATR.  ED9 is a little bit too extreme for me - either really bassy or kinda tinny when swapping the filters.  Still waiting on my ZS3(grr, a later gearbest order came in yesterday, too...), and might pick up a ZST when the price comes down a pit.


----------



## BWAS1000

rackinov said:


> Very nice integration by parts in the background! A level C3?
> The AZ series look so interesting, I just wish I spoke Chinese to read all those reviews on their website. Also this thread is rediculous, just so many responses. What is the most popular model? I'm about to try out the ATE and I'm not sure what to expect from them except for value for money




Haha, I didn't think anyone would notice my Pure Math. It's CAPE Unit 2 Pure Math




sometechnoob said:


> Looks like calculus 2 to me.  u-sub.  Calc 2 was fine for me, but calculus 3 is a completely different story lmao..
> 
> I'm quite happy with my ATR.  ED9 is a little bit too extreme for me - either really bassy or kinda tinny when swapping the filters.  Still waiting on my ZS3(grr, a later gearbest order came in yesterday, too...), and might pick up a ZST when the price comes down a pit.




Yes, it's Calculus 2

Also, success in the refund for the missing EDR2


----------



## waynes world

Point #1: Ordering stuff from China can be fun sometimes. You order. You wait. You get surprised when something you forgot about shows up!
  
 Point #2: I don't like IEM's any more. I don't want to listen to them. Having them jammed in my ears makes me nervous. I haven't listened to IEM's in quite a while....
  
 Point #3: I'm not feeling nervous right now. I'm feeling rather amazed at these ED9's that cost me $14CAD. Had they cost quite a bit more, I'd be rather satisfied. Nice build. Cool tuning nozzles. And damn, they sound great! Like I said, I'm pretty amazed. Kinda scared now wondering how the higher end KZ models sound.
  
 Point #4: when @Lorspeaker hypes, it's worth a listen!


----------



## BWAS1000

waynes world said:


> Point #1: Ordering stuff from China can be fun sometimes. You order. You wait. You get surprised when something you forgot about shows up!
> 
> Point #2: I don't like IEM's any more. I don't want to listen to them. Having them jammed in my ears makes me nervous. I haven't listened to IEM's in quite a while....
> 
> ...




To talk about point number 4. I never liked IEMs much until very recently. Now that I do, even though I don't like them being in my ears for too long, I can wear them because of their unobtrusiveness


----------



## danspy

KZ ZST on Asus xonar essence ST, Blue is the Modified Speaker-out = ~0.2Ohm, Purple is the Headphone-out with 10Ohm. So the more output Impedance the more Heights.


----------



## waynes world

bwas1000 said:


> To talk about point number 4. I never liked IEMs much until very recently. Now that I do, even though I don't like them being in my ears for too long, I can wear them because of their unobtrusiveness


 
  
 My main problem with IEMs is that my ears get fatigued by the bass after a while, which also results in some mild tinnitus in my left ear flaring up (greatly reduced with either earbuds and headphones).
  
 Regardless, the ED9's sound damned good! I'm really enjoying the brass filters at the moment.


----------



## BWAS1000

waynes world said:


> My main problem with IEMs is that my ears get fatigued by the bass after a while, which also results in some mild tinnitus in my left ear flaring up (greatly reduced with either earbuds and headphones).
> 
> Regardless, the ED9's sound damned good! I'm really enjoying the brass filters at the moment.




Huh, that's interesting, mine just get sore from the tips.

Ordering the ATR when I get my refund. 2 of them. 1 for me and one for my buddy whose HDS3 won't arrive in time


----------



## Djsenjaya

lorspeaker said:


> http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php




It was fixed that one of my driver was indeed having a reserved polarity. Swap and it fix the strange sound.


----------



## eaglearrow

coil said:


> If You have multimeter - measure those two cable L/R/G impedances. In theory, Your "Silver" should have slightly higher impedance.
> I have two AE "silver" plated cables and one is ~0.8 Ohm, other ~1.2 Ohm - and I prefer higher impedance cable with my **** 4in1 because it gives me similar result as You noticed (mainly softens too harsh highs).
> Depends, most HQ copper cables I have tried and own are actually better than those cheap AE "silver" plater cables.


 
 Hi, shouldn't the silver have lower impedance compared to regular cable due to their properties ?


----------



## Lorspeaker

Wayne..since u already hit the Buybutton once..
Might as well cover all the basses..err bases..
ATR for jus the fone...
AS3 for ipad...
KZT for yr higher level setups..
$30 with some change left over. 

Then save some hamburger$$$ for the 5drivermonster to be serv3d..in 2mths??


----------



## toddy0191

Just received my ZST and initial impressions out of the box are WOW!

Crystal clear highs loads of detail massive soundstage and great bass that digs deep.

Can't understand how anyone could not like them?????

I made sure the cables were connected properly as I'm sure that's partly the reason for such mixed reviews.

Definitely my favourite KZ over the ate and atr


----------



## Viber

Someone needs to order 6 pairs of the ZST from 6 different stores.
 I think there's massive inconsistency with their sound because there is one with their impressions.


----------



## Drakis

Speaking of ear tips:
I've been listening to my ATE (5th gen) and at first i was not getting "the bass" everyone talks about.
This was with the small silicone tips provided... I then tried with the large ones, and OMG!!!
Strong bass appeared out of the blue! Awesome what different tips can do!
My other KZ's, the ZS3, are a different beast, i get good bass even with the medium tips.


----------



## DikZak

toddy0191 said:


> Just received my ZST and initial impressions out of the box are WOW!
> 
> Crystal clear highs loads of detail massive soundstage and great bass that digs deep.
> 
> ...


 
Have been wanting the ZST a long time but holding of because had to recieve other IEMS first(like vivo EX800 and Senzer H1€

How are they compared to the senzer?


----------



## To.M

toddy0191 said:


> Just received my ZST and initial impressions out of the box are WOW!
> 
> Crystal clear highs loads of detail massive soundstage and great bass that digs deep.
> 
> ...




Welcome to the KZ ZST club!  Good to see another happy headfier here!  And for me they are definitely number 1 too.


----------



## toddy0191

to.m said:


> Welcome to the KZ ZST club!  Good to see another happy headfier here!  And for me they are definitely number 1 too.




The detail and resolution in the treble is superb IMO.


----------



## fredhubbard2

I also received my first zst today. My fave iem are havi, vsonic and ty hiz g3, so sound stage and detail for me. Have to say for the money these are pretty good.

I wear mine down and they fit like a glove with spiral dot tips.

I got the original black/ silver, do the new colorful have same sq?


----------



## khighly

Listening to the ATR, ATE (2 months), and Tennmak Pro (since christmas), here are my *FINAL* thoughts. I'm going to refrain from commenting on this thread until a new KZ product comes out, or I get something like the ED9's.


Tennmak Pro is the clear winner between these three, but lets go over the rest.

*ATE:* Full but what I consider to be a neutral sound, with possibly a little bump at around 5-6k which makes vocals and some guitars pop. Bass extension and high extension are clean and reserved, but still there - the signature is slightly less warm than the Tennmak's, but the high extension is reserved in a great way. Not an ultra wide soundstage like the ZST's, but clarity is definitely there. Sub bass is reserved, but there (ZHU - Money). I like these a lot.


The *ATR* is very neutral, but it cuts at like 11k and has poor low response. There's nothing fun, nothing exciting, and they lack details. While they do have a soundstage, who cares when the rest of the audio is terrible. It's like listening to compressed AM radio. There is definitely a reason these are $4, and it's because they aren't very good. They aren't ED12 bad, but they're not good. If you need a headphone under $5, it'll work, but for a few $ more you can get the ATE, or ZST.


If you want a better sound than the ATR, find the newest version of the ATE's.


ATR's sit right on the bottom of my list with the ED12's

*In Order:*

ZST

Tennmak Pro
ATE
ATR

SHE3590
ED12


The ATR's will likely go in the trash unless someone wants me to ship them to them. If you want them, feel free to PM me and I'll toss them in an envelope for free. GONE


----------



## toddy0191

dikzak said:


> Have been wanting the ZST a long time but holding of because had to recieve other IEMS first(like vivo EX800 and Senzer H1€
> 
> How are they compared to the senzer?




I'm going to stick my neck on the line and say I prefer the ZST to the Senzers.

They have 2 completely different signatures though as the Senzers have more mid bass and less prominent highs.

The ZSTs are as bright as the XE800s with more bass and sound better than them too.

I was honestly VERY shocked at how good the ZSTs sounded for the price and remembered why I love this hobby!

Just don't go for them if you don't like treble!

NB

Just tried them on my phone (LG g4 with viper4android) and they sound a little harsh compared to my Xduuo X3.


----------



## B9Scrambler

khighly said:


> Listening to the ATR, ATE (2 months), and Tennmak Pro (since christmas), here are my *FINAL* thoughts. I'm going to refrain from commenting on this thread until a new KZ product comes out, or I get something like the ED9's.
> 
> Tennmak Pro is the clear winner between these three, but lets go over the rest.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's definitely something up with your ATR. Looking forward to your next update when some new KZs flood the market.


----------



## khighly

b9scrambler said:


> There's definitely something up with your ATR. Looking forward to your next update when some new KZs flood the market.


 

 I don't think so. I have two pairs from different sources and they sound identical.
  
 I have an order placed for the Tennmak piano's, so I'll compare those to the ZST, ATE, and Tennmak Pro's when I receive them.

 I STILL do not have my ZST colorful and I'm starting to get upset. I need to see if I can get a refund.


----------



## DikZak

I failed. Ordered a ZST


----------



## To.M

dikzak said:


> I failed. Ordered a ZST




 Attaboy, well done!


----------



## hoerlurar

dikzak said:


> I failed. Ordered a ZST


 
 Yeah, most of us did...
 (though some of us might have succeeded in buying the ZST 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
  
 I thought ATR sounded good from the start, i'm still not sure about the ZST. So we all have different onions opinions that we should be able to discuss in a civil way


----------



## DikZak

Haha, now the waiting game begins. Hope I won't be disappointed. They look sexy too, the colorful that is.

After hearing senzer H1, ATR will be given away. 
For the money the ATR is good, they afe quite detailed and give a non-fatiguing sound. But is missing some sparkles in the higher end and dark after all. No way they sound like trash, but no way they sound like $30 IEM either


----------



## waynes world

lorspeaker said:


> Wayne..since u already hit the Buybutton once..
> Might as well cover all the basses..err bases..
> ATR for jus the fone...
> AS3 for ipad...
> ...


 
  
 Being brand new to all things KZ, all of these different models are unknown to me. But I am impressed with the ED9's, so am intrigued. Seeing a lot of "ZST" being thrown around, so took a quick peak here. Huh? $20 for a hybrid BA/DD that looks rather cool to boot? What's going on here??? I think I'll have to do some more reading to find out about the SQ.
  
 Lors, have you heard the ZST's?


----------



## Keller1

waynes world said:


> Being brand new to all things KZ, all of these different models are unknown to me. But I am impressed with the ED9's, so am intrigued. Seeing a lot of "ZST" being thrown around, so took a quick peak here. Huh? $20 for a hybrid BA/DD that looks rather cool to boot? What's going on here??? I think I'll have to do some more reading to find out about the SQ.
> 
> Lors, have you heard the ZST's?


 


 It sounds the part. Well-controlled and nicely extended lows, a spike on the highs makes them very sensitive to bad recordings.
 The stars of the show are the soundstage and resolution - definitely not something you'd expect at the price point.
 Requires a bit of brain burnin to work it's best.
 It's definitely a keeper . . . atleast until we get the 4ba+1dd version.
  
  
 Also, the $11 version is technically the same, only not quite as pretty.


----------



## waynes world

keller1 said:


> It sounds the part. Well-controlled and nicely extended lows, a spike on the highs makes them very sensitive to bad recordings.
> The stars of the show are the soundstage and resolution - definitely not something you'd expect at the price point.
> Requires a bit of brain burnin to work it's best.
> It's definitely a keeper . . . atleast until we get the 4ba+1dd version.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info! I'm sensitive to treble spikes, so I'll look into that a bit more.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Check out the prices from gearbest too.
If u hv a "good" dap...the zst shld be fine. Zst aint good off my fone...abit tin-ny..spikey. Great on my x10 NEW dap..the separation..clarity..love it for classicals.


----------



## killerbond

waynes world said:


> Being brand new to all things KZ, all of these different models are unknown to me. But I am impressed with the ED9's, so am intrigued. Seeing a lot of "ZST" being thrown around, so took a quick peak here. Huh? $20 for a hybrid BA/DD that looks rather cool to boot? What's going on here??? I think I'll have to do some more reading to find out about the SQ.
> 
> Lors, have you heard the ZST's?


 
  
 Tbh, I would NOT recommend ZST to any extravagant bass-head or anyone who is sensitive to high (treble) spikes. 
  
 To get a better bass sound, make sure they fit in your ears perfectly, good tips will definitely pay off (try different provided tips or buy foam tips from a 3rd-party company) - I've already ordered a couple of Comply T400 foam tips and still waiting, btw.
  
 It (their highs) was annoying at first, but then I realize the source of your music is somewhat important too, so make sure you have a good quality music in the first place.
  
 Even though I am (sort of) a bass-head, I wound say that a ZST purchase is a no-brainer and I have no regret, especially in this range of $$ ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## danspy

khighly said:


> Listening to the ATR, ATE (2 months), and Tennmak Pro (since christmas), here are my *FINAL* thoughts. I'm going to refrain from commenting on this thread until a new KZ product comes out, or I get something like the ED9's.
> 
> Tennmak Pro is the clear winner between these three, but lets go over the rest.
> 
> ...


 
 Ye AM Radio ATR.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The new ATE,s sound sadly not much better than the ATR, the won,s with the Shrink Tube i mean. The best sounding ATE,s were the ones that came in the Königssegg Box.


----------



## jackingreen

Hello!
 I have a simple question! I have a KZ ATE, but I lost a plastic cap, and I just notice too late. Anyone know where I can ask for parts, a KZ contact, etc?


----------



## danspy

Hire some Measurements.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  




  
 ZST Original=Twisted
  
 ZS3 Original=Coaxial 
  
 ZST Silver=Braided
  
 The all Sound different, not because of ther dc Resistance.(dis LCR Meter Measures actually at 1 KHz AC)  Because of the different Builds.


----------



## danspy

killerbond said:


> Tbh, I would NOT recommend ZST to any extravagant bass-head or anyone who is sensitive to high (treble) spikes.
> 
> To get a better bass sound, make sure they fit in your ears perfectly, good tips will definitely pay off (try different provided tips or buy foam tips from a 3rd-party company) - I've already ordered a couple of Comply T400 foam tips and still waiting, btw.
> 
> ...




Yes the Comply T400 tips sound great with the ZST.


----------



## khighly

[quote name="danspy" url="/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/15075#post_13145843"]Hire some Measurements.         ZST Original=Twisted ZS3 Original=Coaxial  ZST Silver=Braided The all Sound different, not because of ther dc Resistance.(dis LCR Meter Measures actually at 1 KHz AC)  Because of the different Builds.     [/quote]
  
 There was a guy a few pages back that did all of the math and the differences between cables as measured by your LCR meter would result to something like a .00005dB increase. There is a lot of bunk science here. Cables change nothing except durability or style. It's all marketing.


----------



## khighly

*For New ZST Owners:*
  
 If at first the ZST's have harsh highs and sound sibilant, give them about two days for the brain burn in to take control. Every time I switch from using the tennmak pros back to the ZST's I get harsh highs. After a day everything smooths out and becomes crystal clear. Don't let them go too soon, many people here love them and we keep adding new people to the ZST fanboy group


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> [quote name="danspy" url="/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/15075#post_13145843"]Hire some Measurements.         ZST Original=Twisted ZS3 Original=Coaxial  ZST Silver=Braided The all Sound different, not because of ther dc Resistance.(dis LCR Meter Measures actually at 1 KHz AC)  Because of the different Builds.


  
 There was a guy a few pages back that did all of the math and the differences between cables as measured by your LCR meter would result to something like a .00005dB increase. There is a lot of bunk science here. Cables change nothing except durability or style. It's all marketing.
 [/quote]

  
 IIRC math that guy did was wrong.  He added the cable resistance to the IEM driver resistance when I believe it should be added to the output resistance. 
  
 Still, I am of the camp who believes that while cables WILL change something, it's usually too imperceptible (too low SNR) to notice even on freq sweeps, let alone human ears.  Still, if the wire resistance gets high enough, then it will change/color the sound.


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> Listening to the ATR, ATE (2 months), and Tennmak Pro (since christmas), here are my *FINAL* thoughts. I'm going to refrain from commenting on this thread until a new KZ product comes out, or I get something like the ED9's.
> 
> 
> Tennmak Pro is the clear winner between these three, but lets go over the rest.
> ...


hey my atr doesn't sound trash at all it sound amazing i think you have hearing problem?khighly


----------



## khighly

ricemanhk said:


> IIRC math that guy did was wrong.  He added the cable resistance to the IEM driver resistance when I believe it should be added to the output resistance.
> 
> Still, I am of the camp who believes that while cables WILL change something, it's usually too imperceptible (too low SNR) to notice even on freq sweeps, let alone human ears.  Still, if the wire resistance gets high enough, then it will change/color the sound.


 
  
 Do a blind test. I bet you won't be able to tell the difference. Have the wifey switch cables a 10 times while blindfolded. You'll figure out your logic is bunk. You're falling to capitalist marketing.


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> Do a blind test. I bet you won't be able to tell the difference. Have the wifey switch cables a 10 times while blindfolded. You'll figure out your logic is bunk. You're falling to capitalist marketing.


 
 Read my post carefully, I was agreeing with you. As long as cables are good enough, they won't matter to our ears.  I've done NON blind tests and I still couldn't hear any difference.
  
 But if there's something wrong with the wire e.g. the copper has oxidized and the resistance gets too high, then the difference might be big enough that it MIGHT be heard.  Imagine using a plastic wire where no current can pass through, don't tell me there's no difference when there's no sound


----------



## khighly

mus1c said:


> hey my atr doesn't sound trash at all it sound amazing i think you have hearing problem?@khighly


 
 My hearing is excellent. I actually had a trip to the audiologist a month ago where they did a frequency sweep test and the doctor said I'm above average for 26 years old. I have two ATR's from two different sources. No tip can make them sound good. They're lacking highs and they're lacking lows. I would not hesitate to say these are a $1 Walmart crane game toy, where the ED12's are a 25¢ machine grocery store prize. You get what you pay for and the ATR's are only $4. - the lowest of the KZ's. The ATE's are much better than the ATR's
  
 I now trust almost nobody on this board because I personally brought back the ZST hype after some regulars shot them down as trash. Now everyone loves them and are pouncing on two different flavors of them.
  
 Take what the big guys say as a grain of salt. They've been gaslighted by audiophile marketing. You'll only be able to tell slight differences in 83¢ opaml chips that are in every DAC and headphone amplifier. Oh and tubes are a crock of poop too (I built my own stereo tube amp with independent opamps and voltage regs for both channels, using nichicon gold capacitors, metal film resistors, etc). Any modern cell phone opamp playing 320k MP3 is all your ear is going to hear. Anything else is snake oil.


----------



## CoiL

b9scrambler said:


> khighly said:
> 
> 
> > My conclusion here is to *not trust coil's ear, as his post count clearly influences others into getting some terrible chinese IEM's.*
> ...


 
 @khighly - Like... WTH? Dude, this is VERY rude! I put You on ignore list and I still have to read such trash?!? 
 Read more comments from others and You see that many agree with what I have said. ATR has been getting much positive feedback here.
 Not to say that my words are only truth, there are many gear match-ups, different hearing, personal subjective taste in music and sound signature etc. 
 I`m trying to be objective most of time, clearly You not. 
  
 Geesh, Idk what to say anymore... I hope ppl reading Your comments take it all with huge grain of salt and consider Your perspective being very subjective. 
  
 I hope I don`t have to read anymore such posts from You even if You are still on my ignore list (from quotes). Be civilized and respect other ppl opinions.


----------



## danspy

ricemanhk said:


> IIRC math that guy did was wrong.  He added the cable resistance to the IEM driver resistance when I believe it should be added to the output resistance.
> 
> Still, I am of the camp who believes that while cables WILL change something, it's usually too imperceptible (too low SNR) to notice even on freq sweeps, let alone human ears.  Still, if the wire resistance gets high enough, then it will change/color the sound.


 
 Yes but different builds of cables have different Resistances at different Frequencies, because capacity and Inductance. And frequency sweeps are pretty Static in comparison with Musick.


----------



## khighly

ricemanhk said:


> Read my post carefully, I was agreeing with you. As long as cables are good enough, they won't matter to our ears.  I've done NON blind tests and I still couldn't hear any difference.
> 
> But if there's something wrong with the wire e.g. the copper has oxidized and the resistance gets too high, then the difference might be big enough that it MIGHT be heard.  Imagine using a plastic wire where no current can pass through, don't tell me there's no difference when there's no sound


 
 I apologize. I misread. I am currently in the hostipal on some weird medication. Hah. Sorry!


----------



## danspy

khighly said:


> Do a blind test. I bet you won't be able to tell the difference. Have the wifey switch cables a 10 times while blindfolded. You'll figure out your logic is bunk. You're falling to capitalist marketing.


 
 Sorry but I switch Cables sins 25 years, there is no Hope left for mi.


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> I apologize. I misread. I am currently in the hostipal on some weird medication. Hah. Sorry!


maybe from a hearing problem


----------



## fredhubbard2

khighly said:


> *For New ZST Owners:*
> 
> If at first the ZST's have harsh highs and sound sibilant, give them about two days for the brain burn in to take control. Every time I switch from using the tennmak pros back to the ZST's I get harsh highs. After a day everything smooths out and becomes crystal clear. Don't let them go too soon, many people here love them and we keep adding new people to the ZST fanboy group




Horses for courses, got mine yesterday and they didn't sound sibilant at all. I am really impressed. My early impressions are that they could be source dependent, didn't sound great with my colorfly but sound really great with my xduoos but time will tell. I ve messed about with tips and the large white silicone ones that come with my havis work the best , anyway ymmv etc. Great earphones !


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> My hearing is excellent. I actually had a trip to the audiologist a month ago where they did a frequency sweep test and the doctor said I'm above average for 26 years old. I have two ATR's from two different sources. No tip can make them sound good. They're lacking highs and they're lacking lows. I would not hesitate to say these are a $1 Walmart crane game toy, where the ED12's are a 25¢ machine grocery store prize. You get what you pay for and the ATR's are only $4. - the lowest of the KZ's. The ATE's are much better than the ATR's
> 
> I now trust almost nobody on this board because I personally brought back the ZST hype after some regulars shot them down as trash. Now everyone loves them and are pouncing on two different flavors of them.
> 
> Take what the big guys say as a grain of salt. They've been gaslighted by audiophile marketing. You'll only be able to tell slight differences in 83¢ opaml chips that are in every DAC and headphone amplifier. Oh and tubes are a crock of poop too (I built my own stereo tube amp with independent opamps and voltage regs for both channels, using nichicon gold capacitors, metal film resistors, etc). Any modern cell phone opamp playing 320k MP3 is all your ear is going to hear. Anything else is snake oil.


everyone has agree that kz atr don't sound like trash.everyone have positive about it and you come here just say 4 $ iem sound like ****, the money doesn't matter the matter is the sound quality woman.


----------



## ricemanhk

LOL at the back and forth!
  
 Guys, in the end these KZ IEMs are all pretty cheap, cheap enough to just get the ones you want to try and have a listen yourself.  I personally didn't like the ZS3 as much (vs the ZST) so I gave them to a friend and he's having a ball with them (he thought they were 5x the price!). Sharing is caring!


----------



## khighly

mus1c said:


> maybe from a hearing problem




I have multiple sclerosis, but no hearing problems. Read above


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> I have multiple sclerosis, but no hearing problems. Read above


i dont care about it.. But get well soon☺


----------



## SomeTechNoob

literally me in this thread


----------



## danspy

khighly said:


> My hearing is excellent. I actually had a trip to the audiologist a month ago where they did a frequency sweep test and the doctor said I'm above average for 26 years old. I have two ATR's from two different sources. No tip can make them sound good. They're lacking highs and they're lacking lows. I would not hesitate to say these are a $1 Walmart crane game toy, where the ED12's are a 25¢ machine grocery store prize. You get what you pay for and the ATR's are only $4. - the lowest of the KZ's. The ATE's are much better than the ATR's
> 
> I now trust almost nobody on this board because I personally brought back the ZST hype after some regulars shot them down as trash. Now everyone loves them and are pouncing on two different flavors of them.
> 
> Take what the big guys say as a grain of salt. They've been gaslighted by audiophile marketing. You'll only be able to tell slight differences in 83¢ opaml chips that are in every DAC and headphone amplifier. Oh and tubes are a crock of poop too (I built my own stereo tube amp with independent opamps and voltage regs for both channels, using nichicon gold capacitors, metal film resistors, etc). Any modern cell phone opamp playing 320k MP3 is all your ear is going to hear. Anything else is snake oil.


 
 Im with you on the ATR,s i also had two pairs of them, and i couldn't get warme with them. And i also build Amps of any kind, Fet,s Bipolar Op Amp. but so far no tubes.


----------



## khighly

I just put my ATR's in. Hospital room is quiet. Let's go over a few songs from Classic Rock to EDM. I've been using the Tennmak's exclusively, so I'm used to a warmer sound.
  
*ATR:
 Jimmy Hendrix - Somewhere: *Mids mids mids. Jimi's voice is pushed too far behind the mids. No highs past ~10k. Snares don't pop like they do in the ZST's and Tennmak Pro's.
  
*DJ Snake & Yellow Claw - Ocho Cinco (Barely Alive Remix):* Beginning is nice and clear with a little more highs, but still muddied by the mids. Muddy all around, nothing pops. No sub bass but ok at around 60hz+

*Space & Loot - Waves:* Terribly boring. No highs. Mids are too strong. It feels like most of the song is entirely missing.
  
*Koan Sound - Edge:* Sub bass is non-existent, which plays a big role in this song. Snares don't pop. Basically you hear the one synth and a kick the entire song. _One redeeming quality is the quick bass. It doesn't feel sluggish and is quick to respond._

*Lamb of God - Now You've Got Something To Die For*: I really enjoy the percussion in all of Lamb of God's music. Chris Adler is a god. Unfortunately, all of his godly percussion is pushed very far back behind the guitars and vocals. Kick doesn't punch through, you only get the low end of some of his splashes and you don't really get the full effect. Cymbals hide behind the guitars.

*Linkin Park - Papercut:* Surprisingly, this is the best song I've heard on these, but percussion & some toms are well hidden behind everything else. It sounds calm.(the suuuuuuuunnnn gooooessss dowwwwwnnnn). Still nothing exciting and the bassline is too far behind everything towards the end verse when it really moves the song.

*SP:Mc & LX One - Hunted: *Can't reproduce the sub bass accurately at all. You can't hear the slow modulation of the bassline. This is old school dubstep, so there isn't much to it except for a low bassline. My SHE3590's would rock this song.

*Chon - Fall:*  Mids too forward, percussion is pushed too far back, high hats and cymbals are too attenuated.

*Miles Davis - So What:* _This song is extremely hard to get wrong_. Great soundstage in the ATR's, the percussion in the beginning sounds like it's to the rear right of my head. I feel like the level of clarity in the Trumpet is lacking. Sounds fine, not much more to say except this brings out some soundstage.

*Jimi Hendrix - All Along The Watchtower (South Saturn Delta):* Crispy bitey bass with texture, but that's really all I can say about the song. Too muddy once the song goes into other verses.

*Veil of Maya - Mikasa: *Not bad for metal, everything is tight and the highs aren't over powering. Sub bass would go a long away with the kick bursts.
  
*The Weeknd - A Lonely Night:* Mids overpower vocals and percussion making it feel like a sidechaining effect with the vocals.
  
*I will finish this tomorrow. My meds just kicked in and I'm about to crash. Goodnight, my snake oil friends!*


----------



## danspy

Hire a treat for anyone that likes Rock! https://youtu.be/Bik1yAUHfmg


----------



## Vidal

Whilst the ATR isn't my cup of tea in terms of sound signature I'd say they are more than a match for some much pricier and better known brand earphones. They are much closer to my preferred sound signature than the ATE so I like them more than those.
  
 ATR are more analytical
 ATE are warmer and have more mid bass
  
 For the price both are excellent earphones given that the likes of Sony, Sennheiser and others will charge you x10 the price for similar quality sound.
  
  
 One thing I've noticed is that some posters are unable to leave their own preferences to one side when reviewing earphones often labelling them as crap because they don't tick all their own boxes. I can still rate a pair of warm, bassy earphones highly even when this is far from my own personal preference. I would suggest that others need to consider that earphones are made for a wide range of tastes and to bear this in mind when posting.


----------



## Kerkyboi

viber said:


> Someone needs to order 6 pairs of the ZST from 6 different stores.
> I think there's massive inconsistency with their sound because there is one with their impressions.



I may have to agree on you with this one. I didn't find my ZST that amazing vs my ZS3, I'm still trying to figure what went wrong. Maybe I need to order the candy version and see if there is any inconsistency. Hmmmm.




danspy said:


> KZ ZST on Asus xonar essence ST, Blue is the Modified Speaker-out = ~0.2Ohm, Purple is the Headphone-out with 10Ohm. So the more output Impedance the more Heights.






lorspeaker said:


> Check out the prices from gearbest too.
> If u hv a "good" dap...the zst shld be fine. Zst aint good off my fone...abit tin-ny..spikey. Great on my x10 NEW dap..the separation..clarity..love it for classicals.




I would also have to agree with you both, I'm not yet sure why I'm not loving the ZST more like everbody does but what I did notice is that this monitors are quite sensitive to sources. I've been swapping my sources since last night and I really find it better sounding using my laptop. Maybe I have set my expectations very high of the ZST? I dunno, I may need to play around with this boys more.


----------



## khighly

kerkyboi said:


> I may have to agree on you with this one. I didn't find my ZST that amazing vs my ZS3, I'm still trying to figure what went wrong. Maybe I need to order the candy version and see if there is any inconsistency. Hmmmm.
> 
> I would also have to agree with you both, I'm not yet sure why I'm not loving the ZST more like everbody does but what I did notice is that this monitors are quite sensitive to sources. I've been swapping my sources since last night and I really find it better sounding using my laptop. Maybe I have set my expectations very high of the ZST? I dunno, I may need to play around with this boys more.


 

 Give a good listen on a lower volume for a day or two. Your brain will adjust to the highs and they will open right up. I have this issue every time I come back from the Tennmak Pro's.  My ears screm until I give them a chance to 'self EQ'. Lol.


----------



## Vidal

khighly said:


> I just put my ATR's in. Hospital room is quiet. Let's go over a few songs from Classic Rock to EDM. I've been using the Tennmak's exclusively, so I'm used to a warmer sound.
> 
> *I will finish this tomorrow. My meds just kicked in and I'm about to crash. Goodnight, my snake oil friends!*


 
  
  
 My suggestion is to leave it till you are feeling better. Personally I think your snake oil comment highlights your frame of mind and it's coming across badly.


----------



## Kerkyboi

So whilst typing my last post, mr.postman just dropped me these.



Maybe a sign that I need to go on board all the ATR love hate posts.


----------



## khighly

vidal said:


> My suggestion is to leave it till you are feeling better. Personally I think your snake oil comment highlights your frame of mind and it's coming across badly.


----------



## khighly

Anyone willing to lend me a pair of the ZS3's? I have tiny ears, but big ear canals for some reason so I'm not sure if they case of them will fit. I'd rather try before I buy. I'd be willing to send you the the tennmak pro's as collateral since I'm somewhat new here. I'll pay shipping both ways.


----------



## Mus1c

khighlywhat is your preferred kz iem and love the most?


----------



## kaiteck

khighly said:


> Anyone willing to lend me a pair of the ZS3's? I have tiny ears, but big ear canals for some reason so I'm not sure if they case of them will fit. I'd rather try before I buy. I'd be willing to send you the the tennmak pro's as collateral since I'm somewhat new here. I'll pay shipping both ways.


 
 what. they are like 10usd on ebay


----------



## khighly

mus1c said:


> @khighlywhat is your preferred kz iem and love the most?


 

*ZST. *There was a bad batch a few months ago but you'll find almost nobody saying they're bad now. ATE would be my second choice, followed by ATR's. I would recommend reading previous posts where I explain why the ZST is still my favorite 

 For KZ I have only tested ED12, ZST, ATE, ATR. I'd be open to receiving new pairs, or even testing whatever new swag KZ is coming out with, but I'm an absolutely terrible marketer because I tell it like it is.


----------



## khighly

kaiteck said:


> what. they are like 10usd on ebay


 

 Link please! I looked about a week ago and they were up in the $20+!


----------



## danspy

khighly said:


> Anyone willing to lend me a pair of the ZS3's? I have tiny ears, but big ear canals for some reason so I'm not sure if they case of them will fit. I'd rather try before I buy. I'd be willing to send you the the tennmak pro's as collateral since I'm somewhat new here. I'll pay shipping both ways.


 
 The ZS3 are smaller than the ZST, but the sound kinda like the ATR,s with more bass.


----------



## kaiteck

khighly said:


> Link please! I looked about a week ago and they were up in the $20+!


 
 http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Kz-ZS3-The-Most-Comfortable-Ergonomic-HIFI-Headphones-Two-Styles-Black-F7-/322205672714?var=&hash=item4b04f4650amAMsD0OrV5uETVy-09QpxPA


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Also $7.89 on gearbest.
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?
  
 Although shipping is sooooo dang slow for me.


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> Anyone willing to lend me a pair of the ZS3's? I have tiny ears, but big ear canals for some reason so I'm not sure if they case of them will fit. I'd rather try before I buy. I'd be willing to send you the the tennmak pro's as collateral since I'm somewhat new here. I'll pay shipping both ways.


 
  
 The ZS3 fits about the same (maybe even a tad smaller) in my ears as the ZST, the ZS3 just sticks out more by design, which I suspect is one factor in the strong bass (longer sound chamber). So if the ZST fits your ears, the ZS3 should as well.


----------



## kaiteck

khighly said:


> *ZST. *There was a bad batch a few months ago but you'll find almost nobody saying they're bad now. ATE would be my second choice, followed by ATR's. I would recommend reading previous posts where I explain why the ZST is still my favorite
> 
> For KZ I have only tested ED12, ZST, ATE, ATR. I'd be open to receiving new pairs, or even testing whatever new swag KZ is coming out with, but I'm an absolutely terrible marketer because I tell it like it is.


 
 I dun really recommend KZ zs3 if you liked ATE.
  
 I own ATE, ATE-S and zs3 and personally prefer ATE-s over them.


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> *ZST.* There was a bad batch a few months ago but you'll find almost nobody saying they're bad now. ATE would be my second choice, followed by ATR's. I would recommend reading previous posts where I explain why the ZST is still my favorite
> 
> 
> For KZ I have only tested ED12, ZST, ATE, ATR.


ok,from i heard your thoughts on kz zst in previous post,so i will decide to buy kz zst,kz ate and kzs3 is any good and how about kz zst colorful is there any changes in term of sound quality?


----------



## CoiL

ricemanhk said:


> ...ZS3 just sticks out more by design, which I suspect *is one factor in the strong bass (longer sound chamber).* So if the ZST fits your ears, the ZS3 should as well.


 
 Longer sound chamber usually do not make bass stronger (by that I mean tighter and harder hitting), rather more "boomy" and more present.
 This is due to larger amount of air between driver membrane and ear-drum. 
 Though, Idk exactly how much is the ZS3 inner "pipe" diameter. If it is small enough, it can have the effect You mentioned. 
 Imo and experience with modding, making chamber shorter and rather larger diameter has better effect making bass more accurate, tight and punchy, without getting "boomy" or over-boosted.


----------



## danspy

coil said:


> Longer sound chamber usually do not make bass stronger (by that I mean tighter and harder hitting), rather more "boomy" and more present.
> This is due to larger amount of air between driver membrane and ear-drum.
> Though, Idk exactly how much is the ZS3 inner "pipe" diameter. If it is small enough, it can have the effect You mentioned.
> Imo and experience with modding, making chamber shorter and rather larger diameter has better effect making bass more accurate, tight and punchy, without getting "boomy" or over-boosted.


 
 So alike a exhaust System, teck the Mufflers out for more Mids and Height,s "http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/lightbox/post/13111065/id/1780586"


----------



## Kerkyboi

khighly said:


> Give a good listen on a lower volume for a day or two. Your brain will adjust to the highs and they will open right up. I have this issue every time I come back from the Tennmak Pro's.  My ears screm until I give them a chance to 'self EQ'. Lol.



I'll give it a go tonight.



danspy said:


> The ZS3 are smaller than the ZST, but the sound kinda like the ATR,s with more bass.



So I just gave my super very fresh ATR's their first air time. 5 tracks out now, And so far Im liking it better than my ZST, I would say maybe because it does sound like the ZS3 with lesser bass extension and soundstage. I need to burn them in, I'm noticing change in its sound as of now, i'll get back to you guys tomorrow for my initial impressions.


----------



## Shadowsora

And... I am still waiting for my ATRs, the parcel is probably stuck at the airport.
_Malaysia post sucks, at least for me._
  
 I am really eager to try ATR after all that controversy, though I am pretty sure most hate comments are made with the mindset of "This ain't what I like so it's trash".
 Also no plans on ordering ZSTs especially after hearing a lot of people saying it has sharp highs which I massively dislike, so I won't be able to join this conversation without being subjective...
 On another note I am still waiting for that ZSR PRO, ZST PRO whatever it's called.


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> And... I am still waiting for my ATRs, the parcel is probably stuck at the airport.
> _Malaysia post sucks, at least for me._
> 
> I am really eager to try ATR after all that controversy, though I am pretty sure most hate comments are made with the mindset of "This ain't what I like so it's trash".
> ...


 
 Sorry for Your ATR taking so long to arrive.
  
 About ZST`s, I should get mine soon, so I`ll inform You about it since our hearing is quite similar 
 If You still haven`t got Yourself 5th gen ATE - I recommend to get it, esecially because I know You like 2nd gen ATE very much.
 They are just a slight upgrade over 2nd gen but still, it`s noticeable for me with well mastered recordings and revealing source gear.


kerkyboi said:


> khighly said:
> 
> 
> > Give a good listen on a lower volume for a day or two. Your brain will adjust to the highs and they will open right up. I have this issue every time I come back from the Tennmak Pro's.  My ears screm until I give them a chance to 'self EQ'. Lol.
> ...


  
 My opinion about that kind of "harshness-brain-burn-in" is that nobody should "adjust" his/her hearing with harsh or sibilant sounding IEM`s. Why? Because our hearing is most sensitive to high frequencies and also takes damage from it fastest and easiest!
 Only "brain-ear-burn-in" I "recommend" is just to rest Your ears day or two in relatively silent environment.
 If after that, listening with slightly less vol than average, highs are still harsh, then the IEM IS harsh and not correct enough for Your ears.
 No-one should "force" himself to such "adjustment" with high freq and damage hearing.


----------



## Mus1c

shadowsora said:


> And... I am still waiting for my ATRs, the parcel is probably stuck at the airport.
> _Malaysia post sucks, at least for me._
> 
> I am really eager to try ATR after all that controversy, though I am pretty sure most hate comments are made with the mindset of "This ain't what I like so it's trash".
> ...


hey shadowsora im from malaysia too and i have the kz atr about a month now and its sound amazing and Where did you order the kz atr from lazada or 11th street?


----------



## Shadowsora

mus1c said:


> hey shadowsora im from malaysia too and i have the kz atr about a month now and its sound amazing and Where did you order the kz atr from lazada or 11th street?


 
 No, I am not from Malaysia, but they sent me the parcel through Malaysia post and usually parcels are way too late when coming to Greece, I see it's a hit or miss though.
  
  


coil said:


> Sorry for Your ATR taking so long to arrive.
> 
> About ZST`s, I should get mine soon, so I`ll inform You about it since our hearing is quite similar
> If You still haven`t got Yourself 5th gen ATE - I recommend to get it, esecially because I know You like 2nd gen ATE very much.
> They are just a slight upgrade over 2nd gen but still, it`s noticeable for me with well mastered recordings and revealing source gear.


 
 I am pretty sure you have already mentioned this but can you tell me the code of the 5th gen ATE, I am on a search right now.
 Getting tired of MH1 and Quadbeats...
 Thanks!


----------



## Mus1c

Shadowsora haha im sorry, i thought you mentioned, you from malaysia


----------



## Drakis

My 5th gen ATE has printed on the sides RQ:018NBM
 I got mine from here:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Earphone-2016-New-Arrival-Original-KZ-ATE-3-5mm-in-ear-Earphones-HIFI-Metal-auriculares-Earphones/32350895239.html
  
 The pics show an older generation (016NBM), but it got 5th gen.


----------



## Kerkyboi

shadowsora said:


> And... I am still waiting for my ATRs, the parcel is probably stuck at the airport.
> _Malaysia post sucks, at least for me._
> 
> I am really eager to try ATR after all that controversy, though I am pretty sure most hate comments are made with the mindset of "This ain't what I like so it's trash".
> ...



Sorry to hear yours hasn't arrived, mine just arrived from gearbest and it was sent thru malaysia post. Pretty fast compared to NZ post where my ZS3 and ZST was sent.

Get excited coz for the $3 I paid for mine, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Probably the best $3 I spent for a gadget on my entire life.


----------



## Mus1c

Shadowsora Hey don't worry it will arrive soon...i bet you love the kz atr when its arrive,but give some burn in time so that audio start to shine.It worth to wait though and i hope the parcel arrive fast.How long the parcel stuck at the airport?


----------



## VinceHill24

Been eye-ing on the LZ A4 and Magaosi K3 for so long, but keep restraining myself from pressing the Buy button all for the sake of the ultimate KZ ZSR! 

Any news yet about the ZSR lately ? Still expected to launch around February?


----------



## Mus1c

vincehill24 said:


> Been eye-ing on the LZ A4 and Magaosi K3 for so long, but keep restraining myself from pressing the Buy button all for the sake of the ultimate KZ ZSR!
> 
> Any news yet about the ZSR lately ? Still expected to launch around February?


 THE HYPE TRAIN IS ON BOARD


----------



## danspy

coil said:


> My opinion about that kind of "harshness-brain-burn-in" is that nobody should "adjust" his/her hearing with harsh or sibilant sounding IEM`s. Why? Because our hearing is most sensitive to high frequencies and also takes damage from it fastest and easiest!
> Only "brain-ear-burn-in" I "recommend" is just to rest Your ears day or two in relatively silent environment.
> If after that, listening with slightly less vol than average, highs are still harsh, then the IEM IS harsh and not correct enough for Your ears.
> No-one should "force" himself to such "adjustment" with high freq and damage hearing.


 
 The Human Hearing is most sensitive in the Mid,s and not in the Heights, because that's where the Human Voice is situated.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
  
 And that's ware the Big Can,s licke the ATH-M50 do the Damage, the Hurt match more than IEM,s when the get to Laud.


----------



## CoiL

danspy said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > My opinion about that kind of "harshness-brain-burn-in" is that nobody should "adjust" his/her hearing with harsh or sibilant sounding IEM`s. Why? Because our hearing is most sensitive to high frequencies and also takes damage from it fastest and easiest!
> ...


 
 I was talking about over-done/boosted/spiky/harsh etc. highs not normal highs conditions. 
 I know very well that most of human hearing locates in midrange, I`m not talking about that.
 I`m talking about over-done "wrong" highs and its possible physical damage to our ears because our inner ear cochlea is tonotopically organized - high frequencies are transduced first.


----------



## Mus1c

CoiL hey can you tell me more about 5th gen ate please?


----------



## CoiL

mus1c said:


> @CoiL hey can you tell me more about 5th gen ate please?


 
 What do You wish to know exactly? 
 Maybe this post helps?: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/13920#post_13053179
  


shadowsora said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for Your ATR taking so long to arrive.
> ...


 
 Huh... gotta bookmark my post about different ATE revisions lol.
 Read from this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/13920#post_13053179
 I got all my 5thgen ATE`s from GB (3) for ~8$ and all have same SQ and BQ.
 Idk if I can post this link but I got them from here: http://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216373.html


----------



## fatct

http://i.imgur.com/iVJtFNb.jpg
 http://i.imgur.com/KJIYiHk.jpg
 http://i.imgur.com/TcTLqWx.jpg
 http://i.imgur.com/dG8XV0t.jpg <<< is this the red housing for the driver ?
  
 I got this KZ ATE it have a full plastic mic like ZST instead of the metal housing mic . Is this the 5th gen ?


----------



## CoiL

fatct said:


> http://i.imgur.com/iVJtFNb.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/KJIYiHk.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/TcTLqWx.jpg
> http://i.imgur.com/dG8XV0t.jpg <<< is this the red housing for the driver ?
> ...


 
 Yep, seems like 5th gen ATE to me.


----------



## fatct

Thank you


----------



## Mustache

Are the zs3's still worth it, or the new stuff overtakes it? 
 With my ATE i discovered i prefer normal IEM's over this ones with this shapes and over the ear cable. Because with normal ones you just snap them in and start listening, but with this ones, specially now that i'm with long hair they can get quite annoying to put on.
 My edr1's(or edr2? i cant remember) were quite beat up but they seemed to have disappeared last week, so now i'm stuck with a ATE missing a tip (i lost it somehow).
  
 And a zs3 i ordered 3 or 4 months ago havent reached me and just now i remembered i bought them and contacted the seller, i hope i can get a pair of them now.
 Has kz released new stuff in the "normal" IEM market, or are they focusing only in over ear designs now? What model would you guys recommend?
 My s3's seemed to have pretty poor durability, with 2 pairs losing one side audio after pretty low usage.


----------



## fredhubbard2

mustache said:


> Are the zs3's still worth it, or the new stuff overtakes it?
> With my ATE i discovered i prefer normal IEM's over this ones with this shapes and over the ear cable. Because with normal ones you just snap them in and start listening, but with this ones, specially now that i'm with long hair they can get quite annoying to put on.
> My edr1's(or edr2? i cant remember) were quite beat up but they seemed to have disappeared last week, so now i'm stuck with a ATE missing a tip (i lost it somehow). And a zs3 i ordered 3 or 4 months ago havent reached me and just now i remembered i bought them and contacted the seller, i hope i can get a pair of them now.
> Has kz released new stuff in the "normal" IEM market, or are they focusing only in over ear designs now? What model would you guys recommend?
> My s3's seemed to have pretty poor durability, with 2 pairs losing one side audio after pretty low usage.




I have several pairs of over ears but wear them down , my zst are a perfect fit worn down. Just wear right in left ear and vice versa


----------



## CoiL

mustache said:


> Are the zs3's still worth it, or the new stuff overtakes it?
> With my ATE i discovered i prefer normal IEM's over this ones with this shapes and over the ear cable. Because with normal ones you just snap them in and start listening, but with this ones, specially now that i'm with long hair they can get quite annoying to put on.
> My ed3's were quite beat up but they seemed to have disappeared last week, so now i'm stuck with a ATE missing a tip (i lost it somehow). And a zs3 i ordered 3 or 4 months ago havent reached me and just now i remembered i bought them and contacted the seller, i hope i can get a pair of them now.
> Has kz released new stuff in the "normal" IEM market, or are they focusing only in over ear designs now? What model would you guys recommend?
> My s3's seemed to have pretty poor durability, with 2 pairs losing one side audio after pretty low usage.


 
 Maybe HDS1 or ED9 for Your wearing/using preferences? HDS1 for more balanced but natural sound and ED9 for more details/boost on top and bottom.
  
 But another issue for You will be probably KZ`s "sticky" rubbery cable that will "stick" on Your long hairs? lol
 I know Your problem, I had long hair long time ago.


----------



## Mustache

coil said:


> Maybe HDS1 or ED9 for Your wearing/using preferences? HDS1 for more balanced but natural sound and ED9 for more details/boost on top and bottom.
> 
> But another issue for You will be probably KZ`s "sticky" rubbery cable that will "stick" on Your long hairs? lol
> I know Your problem, I had long hair long time ago.


 
 I haven't had a problem with the cable sticking to the hair, but is the hair getting inside the ears together with the tip, it's really annoying with over the ear cable designs.
 I never bought a ed9 because some people say it had too much highs, to the point it bothers you. And with this discussion here about headphones with too much highs may destroy your ears i felt a connection. Because i've already felt it with other headphones (the highs bothering me), and i just thought i should get used to it. And i feel my hearing isn't perfect already so i should take care with that. Do you consider ed9's to have too much highs? Speacially for example when a music has snares or cymbals (or samples of it), i kinda feel some disconfort with some headphones.
 I was thinking maybe a edr series or a ed3, i had one of these in the early days and quite liked them:

  
 What does the hds3 differs from the hds1? Are they all neutral sounding?
  


fredhubbard2 said:


> I have several pairs of over ears but wear them down , my zst are a perfect fit worn down. Just wear right in left ear and vice versa


 
 Wow, thanks for the tip, works like a charm
  


vidal said:


> I like the ZS3 more than the ZST and ATE/R etc., they have a fun bassy sound with great isolation


 
 Hmm, seems good then, i hope the seller sends me another parcel and then i can test them. The seller is fullove365, seems like some people also had the problem of not receiving their packages.


----------



## Vidal

mustache said:


> Are the zs3's still worth it, or the new stuff overtakes it?


 
  
 I like the ZS3 more than the ZST and ATE/R etc., they have a fun bassy sound with great isolation


----------



## khighly

Sorry guys but I'll be leaving head-fi. I feel it is unbalanced and unwelcoming to newcomers claiming our ears are damaged or that we have hearing loss. Only high level posters are believed and there is no room for anyone else. Only the bourgeois who can afford the entire campfire audio lineup are given special treatment. I have been personly attacked with seemingly no reprocussions for the person who did it.

 Always remember, don't fall for snake oil.

 Take care guys, and for the guy that PM'd me for the ATR's, you'll still get them.


----------



## Ruben123

khighly said:


> Sorry guys but I'll be leaving head-fi. I feel it is unbalanced and unwelcoming to newcomers claiming our ears are damaged or that we have hearing loss. Only high level posters are believed and there is no room for anyone else. Only the bourgeois who can afford the entire campfire audio lineup are given special treatment. I have been personly attacked with seemingly no reprocussions for the person who did it.
> 
> Always remember, don't fall for snake oil.
> 
> Take care guys, and for the guy that PM'd me for the ATR's, you'll still get them.




Hey there actually are some snake oil attackers such as James and I, and a lot of them are in the sound science threads too. It is true that it may seem that your impressions are not welcome if they don't line up to other people's. So are mine. Just ignore it and keep having fun, there are posters here who like your posts


----------



## Vidal

khighly said:


> Sorry guys but I'll be leaving head-fi. I feel it is unbalanced and unwelcoming to newcomers claiming our ears are damaged or that we have hearing loss. Only high level posters are believed and there is no room for anyone else. Only the bourgeois who can afford the entire campfire audio lineup are given special treatment. I have been personly attacked with seemingly no reprocussions for the person who did it.
> 
> Always remember, don't fall for snake oil.
> 
> Take care guys, and for the guy that PM'd me for the ATR's, you'll still get them.


 
  
 The problem is your posting your opinion as an irrefutable fact, shouting down others who disagree with you as snake oil salesmen - that's a deeply insulting comment on a forum such as this.
  
 The weight of opinion on the ATR and ATE is generally positive and it's your take on the ATR that sits as an outlier. Given the fact that ATRs cost so little it's beyond me why you reference Campfire and refer to others as bourgeois. If ATRs are the 'snake oil' then the it's not a very profitable line of business, they cost peanuts ***.
  
 Just seen your comments about/to CoiL and that's what I'd call an attack.
  
*Take a break and come back when you're feeling better.*


----------



## rackinov

What are the differences between the kz ate and the kz ate s?
(From amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01DQGN2PO/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483730517&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=kz+ate&dpPl=1&dpID=41ZlG3u9oVL&ref=plSrch#mobile-twister_color_name_1483730524501)


----------



## TrixtonSk8

vidal said:


> The problem is your posting your opinion as an irrefutable fact, shouting down others who disagree with you as snake oil salesmen - that's a deeply insulting comment on a forum such as this.
> 
> The weight of opinion on the ATR and ATE is generally positive and it's your take on the ATR that sits as an outlier. Given the fact that ATRs cost so little it's beyond me why you reference Campfire and refer to others as bourgeois. If ATRs are the 'snake oil' then the it's not a very profitable line of business, they cost peanuts ***.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 I've been on forums where regular posters are vicious to members with low post count to the point of being unbearable.  This is NOT one of those forums.  There are members on here that are not completely factual, and there are those that psychologically trick themselves into believing they hear things that are not actually perceptible.  Providing subjective opinions is not selling snake oil and is not deserving of insults and attacks.


----------



## dondonut

Hey folks,

I'm new on head-fi, have been reading up on this thread and the overall chifi thread, I got really interested in the budget iem market. 

I bought a pair of Xiaomi hybrids after some reading, I thought they were great for 16 dollars.

Then I got a pair of kz ATR, because why not for 6 dollars, and I must say: wow!

I'm not good with technical terms but I was, looking at the price, overwhelmed with the separation of instruments, clarity and overall, how should I call it, immersiveness?

I prefer the sound signature of the ATR over the xiaomis, music sounds more alive through the atrs. The xiaomis are more ergonomic to me though and easier to use when I'm in bed.

Now I'm starting to get addicted I think and also ordered myself a pair of zst's, really curious, they should be delivered soon. 

The more I read on head-fi the more I'm getting the feeling that I'm a complete newbie and I feel I won't help much with commenting. 
Nevertheless I thought I should contribute to the thread. I'll let you know how I like the zst's compared to the atrs once I get them!


----------



## To.M

Hi dondonut welcome to the forum, I am happy to see you getting addicted!  We all are here so you are in a good company  feel free to contribute as much as you only wish  and I hope you will be as thrilled with ZST as me and many others !


----------



## Kerkyboi

CoiL
Sorry, I read your post on the "brain burn in" late. It's a +1 for me. 

Mind you, I remember auditioning the grados sr80 and 325 a long long time ago and I personally didn't liked them even though many people have high regards for them. We need to keep on reminding ourselves that people just have different preferences and we have to respect each other for that.
let's keep the peace and continue appreciating each others destructive comments. 




danspy said:


> The Human Hearing is most sensitive in the Mid,s and not in the Heights, because that's where the Human Voice is situated.:wink_face:
> 
> And that's ware the Big Can,s licke the ATH-M50 do the Damage, the Hurt match more than IEM,s when the get to Laud.



CoiL is referring to high frequencies and hey! I own a pair of M50s and my hearing is still fine. is it? Lol 


*Ok back on topic.*




mustache said:


> Are the zs3's still worth it, or the new stuff overtakes it?
> With my ATE i discovered i prefer normal IEM's over this ones with this shapes and over the ear cable. Because with normal ones you just snap them in and start listening, but with this ones, specially now that i'm with long hair they can get quite annoying to put on.
> My edr1's(or edr2? i cant remember) were quite beat up but they seemed to have disappeared last week, so now i'm stuck with a ATE missing a tip (i lost it somehow).
> 
> ...



I would recommend a visit to the barber shop.  kidding aside, get that seller to send you the ZS3 asap, it is all worth it. It is also possible that you may not want to take them off so that will definitely save you the hassle. Also, use some ear hooks to keep it in place as the memory wire is a bit annoying. And I think wearing them down is impossible as they are shaped like customs. 

_"Ok I got curious if it would be possible to fit them in reverse so I can wear them down and the answer is..... *drum rolls*... I can't. It wasn't a good seal, falls down, memory wire looks funny plus I look stupid."  _

Btw, I'll keep an eye on your post once you receive your pair, we may not have the same preference but I am hoping you'll like them as I already invested hyping you up lol. *#hype*




vidal said:


> I like the ZS3 more than the ZST and ATE/R etc., they have a fun bassy sound with great isolation



We are on the same boat. If liking the ZS3 and ATR more than the ZST means I'm a basshead, then therefore I am. 




khighly said:


> Sorry guys but I'll be leaving head-fi. I feel it is unbalanced and unwelcoming to newcomers claiming our ears are damaged or that we have hearing loss. Only high level posters are believed and there is no room for anyone else. Only the bourgeois who can afford the entire campfire audio lineup are given special treatment. I have been personly attacked with seemingly no reprocussions for the person who did it.
> 
> Always remember, don't fall for snake oil.
> 
> Take care guys, and for the guy that PM'd me for the ATR's, you'll still get them.



Heeeeey mate, don't be too salty, your opinions are very welcome here. I'm more newb than you in this forums but I have to say you got way too aggressive with your previous posts. and to be honest, this bourgeois people you are talking about are people who already established a reputation here hence more people are taking their word against yours, but that doesnt necessarily mean all the people here doesn't like your opinion. Always remember, you don't get respect by forcing an arm, You get respect because you earned it. 

So I say, take a break, come back fresh and when you do, try to be more objective and less subjective of your posts. You're always welcome here, everybody is. And oh btw, Get well. 


dondonut
Welcome my fellow newb. I came from xiaomi pistons too before diving head first in budget-fi, chifi iems and I say start massaging your wife/girlfriend's mindset of what is about to happen to you because I am 100% sure once she sees you got 3 pairs of goodlooking iems lying on your table it is WAR. She will probably think you're spending your life savings for audio gears that will make you ignore her for life.

If you liked what you're hearing from the ATR, It's safe to say the ZS3 is the direct upgrade you need not the ZST. You'd be dumbfounded for its amazing soundstage that you will not believe it is only $8. 



*"Positive + Negative = Positive but Positive + Positive = #HYPE"*
_Sorry for the very long post here's a potato._


----------



## dondonut

To.M thanks for the warm words  

Kerkyboi thanks! haha for now I'll wait till I have the zst untill I buy something else! 
I chose the ZST because I wasn't necessarily looking for more bass. Knowing myself I'll probably order the zs3 soon as well tho, they're all too cheap to pass up on :') Way more forgiving on the wallet than women at least.


----------



## dudinacas

So, khighly left? That sucks :/
  
 In other news, my ATR arrived today and I can give first impressions on it.
 The fit was a bit confusing at first but I think I've got it, the stock 'small' tips seem to be the right fit for me.
 Using my Benjie S5 to listen it sounds great, using my terrible phone it seems to be less clear.
 Sub-bass is less than what I'm used to but not as bad as I expected it to be, for most genres there's enough for fun listening.
 Mids are louder than on my standard IEMs but they're super v-shaped so that's not a surprise.
 I think they sound really good, and the fit is good for running.


----------



## fredhubbard2

These zst are bluddy amazing. Despite earlier quibbles about source, they are currently sounding amazing with my colorfly c3. Reverted back to spiral dot tips, they're up there with the vsd3s and vsd5s at a fraction of the cost. Gobsmacked. 

Thankyou dudes in the KZ thread


----------



## Shadowsora

The "secret" to a healthy conversation is to stay subjective, once you shout personal views as the absolute right you instantly lose any respect you may have and you sound like a total idiot(except if your target audience has an undeveloped character, quite common), I am a low post count user as well but I have a great time in this forum 
This is supposed to be 101 stuff, but I guess it's not.

EDIT: Dun goofed lol, I will leave the post to its initial form, just read subjective as objective and vice versa.


----------



## Majorfifth

Quick questions... 
What the difference between QKZ an KZ? 
And how about this 
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32691882896.html
And This
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32373336369.html
Thanks


----------



## CoiL

QKZ is just one re-branding/re-seller of KZ to catch more attention with search&hit. Personally I do not support this but ppl have been getting QKZ "versions" and they are ok too.


----------



## Ptomerty

Hi! I've tried the ATE and ATE-S, but the shell is much too large for my ears, plus the sound isn't quite up to par. Would the ZS3, ZST, or ED9 offer a better fit, or better sound?
  
 And how does the sound of each differ from ATE/s?


----------



## CoiL

ptomerty said:


> Hi! I've tried the ATE and ATE-S, but the shell is much too large for my ears, plus the sound isn't quite up to par. Would the ZS3, ZST, or ED9 offer a better fit, or better sound?
> 
> And how does the sound of each differ from ATE/s?


 
 ZST might fit for Your ears but it`s a gamble. Instead of You, I would go with smaller sized IEMs like ED9, HDS1, R1 etc.
 You may also want to take a look @ other chi-fi threads as there are other cheapos to follow, 4in1, C-Cellos, Senzer H1, **** VT-66 etc.


----------



## Ptomerty

coil said:


> ZST might fit for Your ears but it`s a gamble. Instead of You, I would go with smaller sized IEMs like ED9, HDS1, R1 etc.
> You may also want to take a look @ other chi-fi threads as there are other cheapos to follow, 4in1, C-Cellos, Senzer H1, **** VT-66 etc.


 
 Good to hear. Currently, the ATE hangs out of my ears a bit, which is okay with the original wire, but *terrible* with the memory wire of ATE-S. I'm looking for a wire that goes over the ear, however, because when I have only one earbud in (a la Rock Zircons), the other earbud gets smashed to bits. :/


----------



## rockingthearies

dondonut said:


> To.M thanks for the warm words
> 
> Kerkyboi thanks! haha for now I'll wait till I have the zst untill I buy something else!
> I chose the ZST because I wasn't necessarily looking for more bass. Knowing myself I'll probably order the zs3 soon as well tho, they're all too cheap to pass up on :') Way more forgiving on the wallet than women at least.



If you liked the atr I would recommend tennmak crazy cello. I personally listened and like the signature of ATR over ZS3. Cellos may be a little expensive if not you can go with the senzer H1 some are saying the senzer has very little differences from the cello and not justifiable for its cost difference


----------



## Majorfifth

coil said:


> QKZ is just one re-branding/re-seller of KZ to catch more attention with search&hit. Personally I do not support this but ppl have been getting QKZ "versions" and they are ok too.



Thanks for quick reply, they dont do any modification about the SQ right? If that so, I think it's no problem to bought some IEM from their brand 
Any recommendation something like ED9 but less harsh and more low?


----------



## rockingthearies

majorfifth said:


> Thanks for quick reply, they dont do any modification about the SQ right? If that so, I think it's no problem to bought some IEM from their brand
> Any recommendation something like ED9 but less harsh and more low?



Probably ZS3


----------



## kaiteck

khighly said:


> Sorry guys but I'll be leaving head-fi. I feel it is unbalanced and unwelcoming to newcomers claiming our ears are damaged or that we have hearing loss. Only high level posters are believed and there is no room for anyone else. Only the bourgeois who can afford the entire campfire audio lineup are given special treatment. I have been personly attacked with seemingly no reprocussions for the person who did it.
> 
> Always remember, don't fall for snake oil.
> 
> Take care guys, and for the guy that PM'd me for the ATR's, you'll still get them.



I thought it was normal to have arguments in forums. 

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk


----------



## kaiteck

dondonut said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I'm new on head-fi, have been reading up on this thread and the overall chifi thread, I got really interested in the budget iem market.
> 
> ...




Same thoughts except that I prefer ate-s over xiaomi hybrid. I immediately sold the hybrid away once I tested it. 

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk


----------



## kaiteck

ptomerty said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > ZST might fit for Your ears but it`s a gamble. Instead of You, I would go with smaller sized IEMs like ED9, HDS1, R1 etc.
> ...




I'm not sure what causes your comfort issue but A pair of ear guide may or may not solve your issue. 

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk


----------



## Keller1

ptomerty said:


> Good to hear. Currently, the ATE hangs out of my ears a bit, which is okay with the original wire, but *terrible* with the memory wire of ATE-S. I'm looking for a wire that goes over the ear, however, because when I have only one earbud in (a la Rock Zircons), the other earbud gets smashed to bits. :/


 

 you know... you can remove the memory wire if you're not concerned with appearances. You just peel off the black heatshrink and then wiggle the little rigid tin wire at the base where it connects with the bud until it snaps.
  
 Did it to my ZS3 and now it's convenient to use.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

Talking about memory wire .. is there a easy DIY option for the ZST wires. . they just keep falling off my ear tips .. probably be couse i have funny ears but its a kind of annoying . anyone ? 
  
 Jeroen


----------



## Keller1

jeroen pasman said:


> Talking about memory wire .. is there a easy DIY option for the ZST wires. . they just keep falling off my ear tips .. probably be couse i have funny ears but its a kind of annoying . anyone ?
> 
> Jeroen


 
 Do the wires keep falling off the ZST or are the ZSTs falling off your ears?

 If it's the former you need to push in the wire harder.

 If it's the latter i cant help you.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

the ZST are fine .. the fit well and never fall out .. the wire should be wrapped arround my ear and fall down behind my ear ... thats not working .. the cable will fall beside my ear ...it will not stay behind my are ore fit .. there for my question for a memory wire option ore so .. 
  
 thanx


----------



## Majorfifth

rockingthearies said:


> Probably ZS3



I don't know, I don't like how zs3 detachable cable is. Since i'm little bit careless, zs3 maybe just can not survive about a few month usage
How about older kz version? Like EDR2,EDSE,ED3 or DT5? 
https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=DT5
This simple review seems interesting, but they say DT5 just discontinued


----------



## Shawn71

majorfifth said:


> I don't know, I don't like how zs3 detachable cable is. Since i'm little bit careless, zs3 maybe just can not survive about a few month usage
> How about older kz version? Like EDR2,EDSE,ED3 or DT5?
> https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=KZ&id=DT5
> This simple review seems interesting, but they say DT5 just discontinued




They who?.....they are on ali for sale.


----------



## Shawn71

jeroen pasman said:


> the ZST are fine .. the fit well and never fall out .. the wire should be wrapped arround my ear and fall down behind my ear ... thats not working .. the cable will fall beside my ear ...it will not stay behind my are ore fit .. there for my question for a memory wire option ore so ..
> 
> thanx




Ear-guides will fix you.....another option is to use a cable tie as a chin-slider,above the y-split.


----------



## Shawn71

vincehill24 said:


> Been eye-ing on the LZ A4 and Magaosi K3 for so long, but keep restraining myself from pressing the Buy button all for the sake of the ultimate KZ ZSR!
> 
> Any news yet about the ZSR lately ? Still expected to launch around February?




Ok, zsr pro-You are not alone .......but at the same time investing. $$$ on ali? sry,not me. not yet.


----------



## Shawn71

ok so one of the member left(temporarily?) for good hmmm......havent gotta a chance to visit here past couple of days,so changes happen.


----------



## Mustache

The seller sent me another pair of zs3's, i hope these ones reach my ears this time hehe. 
 In the meantime i'll continue to look for my edr1's, i apparently lost them after 1 year of use, they were my daily drivers 
 At least i found the other foam tip of my ATE, so i'll be using them while i don't have any other options.


----------



## Majorfifth

shawn71 said:


> They who?.....they are on ali for sale.



I mean a local store here,indonesian, but seems some ali stores still available to purchase, but not the official kz store


----------



## zabunny94

majorfifth said:


> I mean a local store here,indonesian, but seems some ali stores still available to purchase, but not the official kz store




Aww man, i should have bought lp3 and dt5 when they were available on jaknot back then. 

Hopefully they will bring colored zst in, otherwise i have no intention to get zst, ever


----------



## Shawn71

majorfifth said:


> I mean a local store here,indonesian, but seems some ali stores still available to purchase, but not the official kz store




Oh ok........but many sellers are good to buy stuffs from them. KZ store is their official channel and same models can be purchased from elsewhere too.just sayin.

BUT,Its good that buying locally than cross border purchases,in many ways,like support after sales,warranty claims, save time & money on shipping etc.,imo.


----------



## Lorspeaker

update on the ipad pairing..
  
 ZST 's better separation puts my ipad into the bins...
 the music just didnt sound euphonic; the ipad's output quality is not up to scratch for the ZST;
 the less resolving ZS3 did marvelously well with the ipad though. beautiful bloom as a pair.
 Instead the ZST really shine with the X10dap...clarity, space..flow...speed. 
  
 end of short note.


----------



## Mustache

Where did you guys buy your DAC/Amps? Is there an affordable and quality option (like the KZ's )?
 And is it viable to go out with a portable DAC/Amp or it's not worth the bother?


----------



## Dagobert

I guess almost everybody here knows that feeling,waiting for a package,then coming home and its there!Its almost a present for youre self every time 
 Today i got mine KZ ED(R)2.First i will tell mine opinion for so far,listing to them as we speak.Its mine first time doing this,so i hope i am doing it right
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The bass is jaw dropping,its low enough,deep,depending on the song ofcourse.I am a bit of a bass head,so i really like it.Its not overwelming or pounding tho.Top score for the bass if you ask me.
 The mids are good,nothing special to mine hearing/taste but certainly not bad.Better then the Sennheiser 300cx mids.Those where the headphones i used till now.No rumble wich i sometimes get with the Sennheiser.
 Vocals could be better.I found them on the background a bit,i prefer them as a little more up there(in youre face,as a mather of speak)Quality is still good and the vocals are smooth and clear voices.
 High notes are very clear and crisp!Especially in a moment when a song lacks or not having some bass at that moment.Then you can really hear the high notes coming to life very well!
 When a bass line kicks in,or when there is a lot going on,the highs attend to sound a little less in volume and.More on the background.
 Just ask me for a better discription if you want one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I do hear a bit of cable noise when youre moving around,walking or something like that.But i am used to that because the Sennheiser's also had that.
 I am using the biggest plugs and they close really good!I thought i read some where around here that the come of because they dont grip.But when using the biggest size i personally can't imagine that they come of.The gym is going to be a test for that i think 
  
 All said so far (dont really know if these IEM's need some burn in) for this price they are amazing if you ask me.Maybe some things look like i am really negative but thats not all it,i am really happy with them!I think i will order a other set from KZ aswell just to compare and for the fun of it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




If some one haves a recommendation after reading mine story i would love to hear that 
  
 I do have a question.I saw that forum member BWAS1000 ordered the same ones,but it came in a diffrent package.So are mine legit tho?Or just a diffrence and thats it.
 Here are some pictures so you guys can see what i am talking about.They whole thing was in a zip lock bag with that barcode and discription on it.


----------



## Vidal

dagobert said:


> I do have a question.I saw that forum member BWAS1000 ordered the same ones,but it came in a diffrent package.So are mine legit tho?Or just a diffrence and thats it.
> Here are some pictures so you guys can see what i am talking about.They whole thing was in a zip lock bag with that barcode and discription on it.


 
  
  
 The description of the sound and the packaging makes me think those aren't legit. As far as I recall that model were never what I'd describe as being bassy, they're quite reserved in terms of the lower frequencies.


----------



## Majorfifth

Dagobert thanks man, it's a good time to hear your opinion, especially for me now. 



zabunny94 said:


> Aww man, i should have bought lp3 and dt5 when they were available on jaknot back then.
> 
> Hopefully they will bring colored zst in, otherwise i have no intention to get zst, ever



I've sent pm request to all seller on jaknot/jakmall to bring some kz series to Indonesian, and i hope you do... To get more attention lol 



shawn71 said:


> Oh ok........but many sellers are good to buy stuffs from them. KZ store is their official channel and same models can be purchased from elsewhere too.just sayin.
> 
> BUT,Its good that buying locally than cross border purchases,in many ways,like support after sales,warranty claims, save time & money on shipping etc.,imo.



I see... 

Yes i do... Better to get em locally than cross border purchases, especially about time saving, otherwise i just request to bring it on local store's, and a good news is always come... It's easier way for me  LOL


----------



## Dagobert

vidal said:


> The description of the sound and the packaging makes me think those aren't legit. As far as I recall that model were never what I'd describe as being bassy, they're quite reserved in terms of the lower frequencies.


 

 Thank you for youre response.As soon as i opend the package i was like hmmm...is this good?I did read a lot of reviews and indeed they don't add up for what i am hearing.Its a few dollar but still a shame te recieve a fake/
 The weird thing is that they don't sound bad,not at all.But the weirdest thing sound whise is what i explained what happends with the high's when there is more bass.
  
 I am willing to buy a new set,even if it is just to compare.If it still sounds the same to me,then its just mine hearing/taste/explenation.Then i can give a set away,no problem  Does anyone have a site and preferably some legit seller with it?I already searched this thread and come across 2 Aliepress sellers.One called the KZ Official Store(ordered the ones i have here) and one called the FlagshipStore.
  
 Stores on Ebay and Aliexpress would be great


----------



## Vidal

dagobert said:


> Thank you for youre response.As soon as i opend the package i was like hmmm...is this good?I did read a lot of reviews and indeed they don't add up for what i am hearing.Its a few dollar but still a shame te recieve a fake/
> The weird thing is that they don't sound bad,not at all.But the weirdest thing sound whise is what i explained what happends with the high's when there is more bass.
> 
> I am willing to buy a new set,even if it is just to compare.If it still sounds the same to me,then its just mine hearing/taste/explenation.Then i can give a set away,no problem  Does anyone have a site and preferably some legit seller with it?I already searched this thread and come across 2 Aliepress sellers.One called the KZ Official Store(ordered the ones i have here) and one called the FlagshipStore.
> ...


 
  
 Are you in the UK?


----------



## Dagobert

@Vidal:No sorry to mention.I am in The Netherlands/Holland.
 Gearbest or Banggood could also be a option.I don't mind other sites so long as the price is right and the shipping isn't true the roof.


----------



## Kerkyboi

@Dagobert 
  
 Seems legit to me. And if you got your pair from KZ official store in aliexpress, they do send out KZ products with a case, not the original box but a case. Do review your order from them as you might have missed something, usually there are options to include such case.


----------



## Mustache

dagobert said:


> I guess almost everybody here knows that feeling,waiting for a package,then coming home and its there!Its almost a present for youre self every time
> Today i got mine KZ ED(R)2.First i will tell mine opinion for so far,listing to them as we speak.Its mine first time doing this,so i hope i am doing it right
> 
> 
> ...


 
 About the bag, you just got a gift from the seller, here it is in the official store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-B1-High-End-In-Ear-Earphone-Headphones-Storage-Case-Bag/1358152_32333918954.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.GdbQ71
 As i was told here before, i don't think we should be worried about a copy of a $3-7 dollar headphone, the copy would be more expensive to make than the own legit pair.
 Cheers, and enjoy your buy.
  
 You might just got a different model from the announced one or a pair with a different sound signature for some odd reason.


----------



## Dagobert

@Vidal:No sorry to mention.I am in The Netherlands/Holland.
 Gearbest or Banggood could also be a option.I don't mind other sites so long as the price is right and the shipping isn't true the roof.
  
  
@Kerkyboi:Thank you for youre answer.I didn't knew that.
  
@Mustache:I didn't saw that at the store
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




you are good and i am ashamed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Next time i will look better before some complaining hehe.And youre right about the costs.Maybe i got used to mine Sennheiser sound and having some trouble with describing the sound.I will post it in this thread by the time i do get a second pair of KZ for a little comparison  Thnx and i will !
  
 Edit:On Gearbest i saw a HDS3 for 4,45! Is that even possible?Just curious


----------



## fatct

Is there any review of the ATR ?


----------



## macky112

fatct said:


> Is there any review of the ATR ?



Really!?
On this thread, for the past couple of days, there was a big argument about this model, are you trolling?


----------



## macky112

shawn71 said:


> Ear-guides will fix you.....another option is to use a cable tie as a chin-slider,above the y-split.




Plus one on the diy chin slider, I do this for all of my iem that doesn't come with one


----------



## brianjai

I've used my KZ ATR for 3-4 days,and I want to say that it's amazing!

Originally,I'm using a $20 Audio-Technica earphone(which is terrible in it's price range).Changing it to ATR is a major step up for me!Compare to the SE215 from my friend,it has a similar soundstage(but SE215 separation is a bit better).For the bass part,ATR simply crushed the SE215 with a large amount of bass and it's much more detail compare to SE215 which sounds muffled(maybe because of the use of foam tips).
Mid-frequency is certainly not the best in ATR.It sounds flat as it has a slightly V-shaped frequency.Still,it's better than SE215 as it's more detail.
Treble is better than I expected.It never gets super sharp compare to some ATH earphone(like my $20 one).However,I found it satisfied when listening to female vocal.
Overall,compare to SE215,this is definitely a better deal for me.

However,everything has two side.The size of ATR is quite huge and it's hard to adopt to it.Also,the cable looks unattractive and super soft,which makes this earphone (maybe) not so durable.However,you can always buy ATR FOR around $5.So it's no big deal 

BTW,this is my first post in Head-Fi  Welcome everyone !


----------



## SomeTechNoob

dagobert said:


> Edit:On Gearbest i saw a HDS3 for 4,45! Is that even possible?Just curious


 
 Gearbest has the cheapest KZ prices usually.  The ATR and ED9 I got from them were legit, so I don't see any issues with them.  Still waiting for my ZS3 though...shipping to US is taking soooo long.


----------



## dudinacas

Anyone know where to find good ear guides for the ATR? The cable keeps falling sideways and I can't find any on Aliexpress


----------



## danspy

dudinacas said:


> Anyone know where to find good ear guides for the ATR? The cable keeps falling sideways and I can't find any on Aliexpress


 
 take an old cable tie and wrap the cables 1 or 2 inches under your chin.


----------



## dudinacas

danspy said:


> take an old cable tie and wrap the cables 1 or 2 inches under your chin.


 
 Guess that's one way to do it, but I have some spare change that needs to be wasted quickly


----------



## Shawn71

dagobert said:


> I guess almost everybody here knows that feeling,waiting for a package,then coming home and its there!Its almost a present for youre self every time
> Today i got mine KZ ED(R)2.First i will tell mine opinion for so far,listing to them as we speak.Its mine first time doing this,so i hope i am doing it right:tongue_smile:
> t
> 
> ...




No worries,its original like mustache replied......I think I didntget mine a case with my pair of edr2. that cable alone is like $1.59-$2.0 and its mostly on KZ models that I've seen and kz case is like between $0.70-$1 thru out ali,them being translates to roughly $2-$3.......so its hard to keep a profit margin those who copy cat them.Will try to post mine a picture when I find time.

Give them a good ear-time,it definitely sounds good for the price and you did already mentioned how good they are!
btw,just ignore the sticker which reads diff model with mic.


----------



## Shawn71

mustache said:


> Where did you guys buy your DAC/Amps? Is there an affordable and quality option (like the KZ's )?
> And is it viable to go out with a portable DAC/Amp or it's not worth the bother?




This thread will give you more info you lookin for and many cld post their recommendations if you shoot your questions there........yes there are budget dac/amps like fiio etc and these KZs doesn't require one but nothing wrong in trying one, to hear yourself how they respond/scale-up with your source(stream). Nevertheless @ one one point of time in this journey, you will buy one and progress to one level up!!!

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/684159/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-headphones-iems-amps-dacs


----------



## CoiL

brianjai said:


> I've used my KZ ATR for 3-4 days,and I want to say that it's amazing!
> 
> Originally,I'm using a $20 Audio-Technica earphone(which is terrible in it's price range).Changing it to ATR is a major step up for me!Compare to the SE215 from my friend,it has a similar soundstage(but SE215 separation is a bit better).For the bass part,ATR simply crushed the SE215 with a large amount of bass and it's much more detail compare to SE215 which sounds muffled(maybe because of the use of foam tips).
> Mid-frequency is certainly not the best in ATR.It sounds flat as it has a slightly V-shaped frequency.Still,it's better than SE215 as it's more detail.
> ...


 
 Please try KZ "starline" silicone tips with ATR - they make ATR sound more coherent and balanced. Also detail, clarity and separation is slightly improved.


----------



## train2

I had got my atr and I like them . Now i want order one or Two other models. In the Moment I prefer zs3, which models did you suggest me?


----------



## Mus1c

when i look at my atr it say ultra bass but it doesn't has that bassy bass i think this has to be a troll or something.


----------



## train2

mus1c said:


> when i look at my atr it say ultra bass but it doesn't has that bassy bass i think this has to be a troll or something.



I let time play a us now the bass is extremely.


----------



## crabdog

mus1c said:


> when i look at my atr it say ultra bass but it doesn't has that bassy bass i think this has to be a troll or something.


 
 Do you have a good seal with your eartips? No seal = no bass.


----------



## train2

Which Earphones should i take zs3 or ed12?


----------



## crabdog

train2 said:


> Which Earphones should i take zs3 or ed12?


 
 Everyone who I've heard talk about ed12 said they're terrible.


----------



## train2

And which is better zs3 or zst?


----------



## Mus1c

crabdog said:


> Do you have a good seal with your eartips? No seal = no bass.


dude i have a good seal with it. I use small tip that came with iem but the bass is no no for me.why it describes as ultra bass when the bass is just a little enough for iem.


----------



## To.M

mus1c said:


> dude i have a good seal with it. I use small tip that came with iem but the bass is no no for me.why it describes ultra bass when the is just a little




Check all the tips!


----------



## kaiteck

mus1c said:


> dude i have a good seal with it. I use small tip that came with iem but the bass is no no for me.why it describes ultra bass when the is just a little


 
 smaller tip = lousy bass :/ what iem are you guys talking abt?


----------



## Mus1c

kaiteck said:


> smaller tip = lousy bass :/ what iem are you guys talking abt?


 im talking about kz atr


----------



## Shawn71

mus1c said:


> when i look at my atr it say ultra bass but it doesn't has that bassy bass i think this has to be a troll or something.




May be they are bit more refined (quality) over its cousins?.......I wld'nt consider those descriptions any serious. try small tips of any model from your bunch.

I can quote another ex: vsonic gr07 BE(bass edition),they are'nt bass head/super heavy bass by the model name,by any means,but it is, to its other line-ups,gr07 mki,mkii and CE.


----------



## crabdog

Admittedly calling them "ultra bass" is quite misleading because they're more balanced than a lot of budget IEMs. @Mus1c if I remember right, people say the ZS3 have more bass.


----------



## Mus1c

shawn71 said:


> May be they are bit more refined (quality) over its cousins?.......I wld'nt consider those descriptions any serious. try small tips of any model from your bunch.
> 
> I can quote another ex: vsonic gr07 BE(bass edition),they are'nt bass head/super heavy bass by the model name,by any means,but it is, to its other line-ups,gr07 mki,mkii and CE.


 so it nothing to do with the ultra bass wordz,what a bummer i thought it will be super bassy iem when i first got it.


----------



## Mus1c

crabdog said:


> Admittedly calling them "ultra bass" is quite misleading because they're more balanced than a lot of budget IEMs. @Mus1c
> if I remember right, people say the ZS3 have more bass.


 ok that will be great suggestions i will the buy zs3 someday.ohh i heard its has same sound signature as kz atr right?.


----------



## Saoshyant

mus1c said:


> so it nothing to do with the ultra bass wordz,what a bummer i thought it will be super bassy iem when i first got it.


 
 Sadly, it's a commonly used tactic which means nothing.  I just assume nothing if a headphone claims super bass, extreme bass, anything like that.


----------



## crabdog

mus1c said:


> ok that will be great suggestions i will the buy zs3 someday.ohh i heard its has same sound signature as kz atr right?.


 
 You should also consider the ROCK Zircon if you want BIG bass.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Rock-Luxury-Zircon-Stereo-Headphones-Headset-3-5mm-in-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-for-iphone-Samsung-with/2496012_32735944102.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.rdqgG2


----------



## Mus1c

crabdog said:


> You should also consider the ROCK Zircon if you want BIG bass.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Rock-Luxury-Zircon-Stereo-Headphones-Headset-3-5mm-in-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-for-iphone-Samsung-with/2496012_32735944102.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.rdqgG2


 Tq for the suggestions crabdog much appreciated but it has a standard kz sound or much step up for the sound quality.


----------



## CoiL

crabdog said:


> mus1c said:
> 
> 
> > ok that will be great suggestions i will the buy zs3 someday.ohh i heard its has same sound signature as kz atr right?.
> ...


 
 +1 
  
 and another recommendation from me with BIG bass (but clear, detailed and thumpy bass) is YinJw IE800 wooden version but taking a fast look at AE, seems they are gone or discontinued? They are very good for EDM and such but also rumble Your socks off and make head banging with djent and such.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Shawn71

train2 said:


> And which is better zs3 or zst?




Since you said,you can afford 2 iems,get them both,keep the one you like most and sell/gift the other........both are liked by many here,so both of them worth a shot,,imo.



mus1c said:


> ok that will be great suggestions i will the buy zs3 someday.ohh i heard its has same sound signature as kz atr right?.




Yes zs3 is da bomb.......remember, fit may be tricky for some ears tho due to its shell design,just sayin.


----------



## train2

shawn71 said:


> Since you said,you can afford 2 iems,get them both,keep the one you like most and sell/gift the other........both are liked by many here,so both of them worth a shot,,imo.
> Yes zs3 is da bomb.......remember, fit may be tricky for some ears tho due to its shell design,just sayin.




I have decided that I only take one. What is better to wear with a glasses, normal cable like zst oder The hard cable like zs3?


----------



## Saoshyant

I personally have an easier time with the ZS3 cable with my glasses, where the ZST cable doesn't always stay in place properly.


----------



## train2

saoshyant said:


> I personally have an easier time with the ZS3 cable with my glasses, where the ZST cable doesn't always stay in place properly.



And which Sound did you prefer?


----------



## Saoshyant

train2 said:


> And which Sound did you prefer?


 
  
 While I like them both, the ZST to my ears is more detailed, where the ZS3 has more bass and is better suited to someone looking for a fun signature.  The ZST is by no means lacking bass, however.  If I had to pick, I'd personally continue using the ZST over the ZS3.


----------



## Ptomerty

Have any of you tried the silver cables for ZST/3? Did they make a difference? Considering just taking the plunge and getting ZST + Cable, instead of trying ZST, ZS3, and ATR.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> so it nothing to do with the ultra bass wordz,what a bummer i thought it will be super bassy iem when i first got it.


 
  
 This is a fun, VERY bassy little cheapo earphone; YHC S600. Cheap too.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-YHC-S600-bass-earphone-sports-headphones-dynamic-Headset-with-mic-for-iPhone-xiaomi-samsung-smartphones/32717330843.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.264.SvX0G3&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1483897681186&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=48b01c62c6a24cf6803a864f07e8d4c4-1483897681186-01325-VnYZvQVf
  
          ​


----------



## ricemanhk

ptomerty said:


> Have any of you tried the silver cables for ZST/3? Did they make a difference? Considering just taking the plunge and getting ZST + Cable, instead of trying ZST, ZS3, and ATR.


 
  
 In general, cables matter much less than the driver or the source. In the case of ZS3 and ZST, I found negligible difference between stock and silver cable, but immense difference between ZST and ZS3.
  
 That said, the silver cable IS a bit more comfortable than the stock one, so get it for that if you want, or just to have an extra spare cable.  But the silver cable doesn't have the in-line mic as the stock one.


----------



## KcLKcL

How is KZ ZST compared to ATH-IM50? Has anyone tried them both?

I believe KZ still can compete to IEM that priced up to $50.


----------



## Happytalk

What Iems is the ZST competing with for real? Xiaomi piston 2? Etymotic MC5? Soundmagic pl30? Just curious where these stand on isolation, particularly. But I am also curious about sound quality. Some stuff has turned me off. I like treble but not fatiguing treble, and I like bass to be as controlled and as tight as possible. No need to go too low. Mostly jazz music in my ears.


----------



## ricemanhk

happytalk said:


> What Iems is the ZST competing with for real? Xiaomi piston 2? Etymotic MC5? Soundmagic pl30? Just curious where these stand on isolation, particularly. But I am also curious about sound quality. Some stuff has turned me off. I like treble but not fatiguing treble, and I like bass to be as controlled and as tight as possible. No need to go too low. Mostly jazz music in my ears.


 
  
 Some here have said ZSTs are comparable to Shure SE215s.  For my ears, these are ALMOST (but not quite) as good as UE Triplefi 10s which I own, and comfort-wise MUCH better than my triplefi 10s.
  
 Sound isolation is really good for me (using the stock medium starline tips).  Treble performance is a highlight for me, it's strong enough without being fatiguing, which is a fine line to balance.  Bass is there (as long as you get a good seal), but not boomy.  ZS3 had much boomier bass.
  
 I think you'll like the ZST alot, and they're cheap enough to just give it a try!


----------



## Montyburns

shawn71 said:


> Ok, zsr pro-You are not alone .......but at the same time investing. $$$ on ali? sry,not me. not yet.


 I have the LZ A4 and Kz ZST and ZS3. The LZ A4 are worth their price and more. But some days, you want the easy KZ flavor. I use Comply isolation tips on the KZ. With the A4, and the changeable filters, I can change the flavor as the music dictates.


----------



## dudinacas

coil said:


> Please try KZ "starline" silicone tips with ATR - they make ATR sound more coherent and balanced. Also detail, clarity and separation is slightly improved.


 
 Not the person you were replying to but I own the starline tips and whirlwind tips and the small tips are far too small for my ears and the mediums are a bit too big. Really annoying.


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, depends on person ear shape. Maybe for You - try Spiral Dot MS size that is inbetween M and S?


----------



## ricemanhk

dudinacas said:


> Not the person you were replying to but I own the starline tips and whirlwind tips and the small tips are far too small for my ears and the mediums are a bit too big. Really annoying.


 
  
 The difference between the small and medium is not THAT much...a bit too big is normally ok unless it's warping the silicone and breaking the seal.  
  
 Perhaps try thinner tips (most other IEMs come with those cheap thin ones, KZ stock tips are REALLY good), or some hybrids that are silicone + foam.  I think there's a post here where somebody showed how to make them yourself as well. Tri-flange tips could also help.
  
 Worse case just get foam tips which will fit the best, but you'll need to keep replacing them.


----------



## fatct

no idea what's going on.


----------



## kaiteck

kclkcl said:


> How is KZ ZST compared to ATH-IM50? Has anyone tried them both?
> 
> I believe KZ still can compete to IEM that priced up to $50.


 
 I do remember my friend once said im50 was awful over bassy as compared to KZ ate and im02,im03


----------



## kaiteck

montyburns said:


> I have the LZ A4 and Kz ZST and ZS3. The LZ A4 are worth their price and more. But some days, you want the easy KZ flavor. I use Comply isolation tips on the KZ. With the A4, and the changeable filters, I can change the flavor as the music dictates.


 
 what makes you think lz a4 is worth their price when some days, you want the easy KZ flavor?


----------



## Griffith

So after confirming that the ATR are not an upgrade to the ATE as many claimed... (they are completely different-sounding earphones with very differing characteristics overlap with each other much less than the actual design of the earphones) and confirming the the ZST are also not an upgrade to the ZS3 or ATR for the same reasons as the ones mentioned between the parenthesis I'm here to slay two of this thread's enduring repeated questions and boogeymen:
 Is the ZST colorful, also referred to as ZST Pro by some vendors, better or different than the non-colorful ZST?

 And finally... the one you've all been waiting for: Does the ZST silver upgrade cable improve the sound quality of the ZST?

 Lets get started!

 Disclaimer: for the sake of this comparison I will be using the same soundsource for all the tests, the same audio files and when possible I will share links to those files so that you may, or may not, verify any of the differences I find, if any are found at all.

 Gear and reasoning:
 To compare these I put on the same eartips, KZ's memory foam ones because I've found that for my ear's shapes and specifically with the ZST they seal better than the "star" KZ earphone tips that come with them. My source for this test will be an Audio GD NFB-12 which at this point is no longer available for purchase. Reason why I'm using the Audio GD rather than the Fiio portable DAC/AMP I own is because I'm much more used to the Audio GD now and its just slightly warmer signature that switching to the Fiio would require further adjustment of my hearing and might drive away some of my impressions.

 My player of choice is Foobar 2000 running on Windows 10. My android device is a Xiaomi Mi5 which has a  Qualcomm WCD9335 DAC and the player I use on it is the GoneMad Music Player using the device's own equalization.
 ZST vs ZST Colorful (aka the ZST PRO)

*Myth*: Some people claim or think the ZST Colored are a retuned or different/improved version of the original ZST. This may be due to the price difference (the colorful variant is generally more expensive) or because some vendors erronously called the colorful ZST the ZST Pro such as the KZ "offical" store on Aliexpress.    

 They sound pretty much the same. I've found that the colorful might have an ever so slight difference in some frequencies but that may be because they haven't been burned in or just because of the general way they are sealing in my ear.
 An example of such a difference, is for example on the Celia Pavey cover "Feel Good Inc" there is a shaker (at least I think it is a shaker or some variant of one) on the background that is ever slightly more forward than the other ZST, but the difference is miniscule. You'd have an incredibly detailed ear to discern them apart and even then you'd be grasping at straws. I wish I had a Vibro Veritas to confirm this (anyone selling one by any chance?) but to my ears they sound almost indistinguishable from each other.
 I think the confusion stems from the poor translation of the Aliexpress store more than anything. The official Taobao store has no mention of the ZST Pro anywhere on its product lineup. The colored ZST are part of the same product page as the ZST and Chrome's Translation of the page mearly translates them as ZST Colorful: https://world.taobao.com/item/538360481419.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-218018788.24.ykPAn2

*MYTH BUSTED!*
  
KZ ZST normal cable vs Silver Upgrade Cable

 For this test I will be switching between the ZST Colorful with the stock cable and the Grey ZST with the silver cable.
 I'll be honest with you all, I wasn't expecting to find much of a difference, if any at all, and I've been going back and forth repeatedly for a couple of hours now, took a break to make sure I wasn't going insane, came back, tested again and there is actually slight difference. I was so unconvinced and skeptical that I burned in the ZST colorful for dozens of hours, switched the cable back and forth between them to reach my conclusion and the conclusion is that there is in fact a slight difference in the sound with either cable.

 I can only discern the difference in higher pitched sounds and in the bass, but the silver cable seems to ever so slightly bring these back. The highs are just slightly less high pitched and piercing and the sound, vocals seem slightly less forward  and in its entirety the cable makes the ZST feel slightly warmer.

 Let me be clear on something though, these aren't day-and-night type differences, and I doubt most people would be able to discern the difference unless they were listening to the two cables back to back as I am and switching between very quickly. The silver cable doesn't change the character of the ZST, but it does slightly tweak them.
 I honestly don't know why there is such a discernible difference as I, like many others reading this thread, used to consider cable upgrades a silly purchase outside of aesthetic reasons. I am aware that cables tend to lose signal quality depending on their length but the quality gains for relatively short cables is in general considered more expensive than it's worth.

 This cable cost me € 7,62 whereas the ZST cost me € 13,16 for the colorful model and €11.76 for the grey model.  The "bang for buck" I got with the ZST is definitely not there with the cable but if you consider the ZST and the cable packed together we're still talking about an under € 20 earphone. That's less than, or close to, the price I paid for some other well-regarded chinese IEM (like the Tennmak Pro as an example) and the cable has a couple of practical benefits:

 1. it slightly tones down the brightness and harshness of the earphones that some find displeasing
 2. it's a great improvement over the stock cable. They don't get tied as often, are nicely braided and don't require weights, ear guides or anything special to stay in place and just let you enjoy music whereas the stock cable and it's "springy" characteristics and design of the stock cable can often cause small problems.

 They aren't a must-buy or obligatory, but they help make what I consider a very nice earphone better. Whether or not that's worth over half their cost for that improvement is a decision you'll have to make yourself. With this said I have to say that this myth is surprisingly kind of true.


----------



## ricemanhk

@Griffith great comments, I echo your findings on the silver vs stock cable.  
  
 On the point about price.  Yes the silver cable is more than half the price of the stock ZST.  But that's mainly because the ZST earbud itself is so darn cheap!
 Take any upgrade cable out there and the ZST silver cable is still generally cheaper.  
  
 I'm happy I got the silver cable bundle as it was cheaper than getting the silver cable separately, so I least have a spare to use when one eventually breaks
 I just wish the silver cable came with a mic as well, but that seems to be quite rare on upgrade cables in general...
  
 Meanwhile grey vs colorful ZST.  The comments on this thread earlier on the differences may have been with EARLY batches of the grey ZSTs, which seemed to either have lots of QC issues or was actually tuned differently.  Current batches of the grey and colorful are purely aesthetic difference, the innards are exactly the same, I've confirmed this with the official KZ store on taobao.


----------



## Montyburns

kaiteck said:


> what makes you think lz a4 is worth their price when some days, you want the easy KZ flavor?


One thing I think KZ does better than any other iem I own is vocal pesentation in rap music. When I want to find out what an artist is saying, I always plug in a KZ product - try it with the new Run the Jewels album. It's uncanny.


----------



## crabdog

montyburns said:


> One thing I think KZ does better than any other iem I own is vocal pesentation in rap music. When I want to find out what an artist is saying, I always plug in a KZ product - try it with the new Run the Jewels album. It's uncanny.


 
 Did some searching as I hadn't heard of RTJ before. I was expecting something that would make me grimace and cringe like lil' Wayne, Drake etc (no offense to any fans) but was very pleasantly surprised. Can't believe I didn't know about this earlier. Thanks!


----------



## Caipirina

I went through about 50 of the 1000+ pages in this thread, but alas, I could not really find what I am looking for. 
  
 HDSE, I found only some vague 'they are bad, no, not that bad' ... kinda remarks ... how are they? I am always looking for something great for running, my dream would be a BT version of the ZS3 (feel free to point out some other BT headsets that I should look into, I recently got some elecom HPC40, i think this might me Japan only, which I really like and they actually stay put) , feel free to tell me
  
 speaking of which: my pair of ZS3 is getting 'old' ... the mic portion came off, I taped it back, it still works ...  is there actually a place to order replacement cables that are not more expensive than getting a new pair of ZS3s? 
  
 and IF getting a new pair, what is the current, trustworthy AE seller de jour? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## chinmie

from what i've read, the qcy qy 19 is better than the hdse. you might also consider the tenmak pros with the Bluetooth cable. other option is using a Bluetooth receiver, then you can use whatever earphones you like


----------



## B9Scrambler

crabdog said:


> Did some searching as I hadn't heard of RTJ before. I was expecting something that would make me grimace and cringe like lil' Wayne, Drake etc (no offense to any fans) but was very pleasantly surprised. Can't believe I didn't know about this earlier. Thanks!


 
  
 RTJ is fantastic. Killer Mike and EL-P make for a good duo. I also enjoy Aesop Rock and Rob Sonic on their Hail Mary Mallon releases. Check those out if you haven't already.


----------



## Caipirina

chinmie said:


> ... other option is using a Bluetooth receiver, then you can use whatever earphones you like


 
  
 actually, this is one of my fav sport setups: My 50mm Phillips (9500 something? The ones with the sweat friendly textile earpads) and an AGPtek bt receiver ... works well if no one else plays loud music in the gym. 
  
 So far the only over ear for work out option I could come up with  
  


 another BT receiver of mine was eaten by sweat  
  
 I have a bunch of others I have tried so far .. liking that QYC QY8 quite some (also have the QY7, some Ankers, new JBL e25BT, the recent Xiaomi sport, which already gave up somehow .. I am using/abusing them quite alot).. but looking for something with over the ear cabling like the ZS3 (which have the best fit out of all my in ears, well, them and the Vivo XE800)


----------



## Montyburns

b9scrambler said:


> RTJ is fantastic. Killer Mike and EL-P make for a good duo. I also enjoy Aesop Rock and Rob Sonic on their Hail Mary Mallon releases. Check those out if you haven't already.


 

 I take all the recommendations I can get. Thanks! I will be pumping them on the ZST in minutes.


----------



## Vidal

caipirina said:


> I went through about 50 of the 1000+ pages in this thread, but alas, I could not really find what I am looking for.
> 
> HDSE, I found only some vague 'they are bad, no, not that bad' ... kinda remarks ... how are they? I am always looking for something great for running, my dream would be a BT version of the ZS3 (feel free to point out some other BT headsets that I should look into, I recently got some elecom HPC40, i think this might me Japan only, which I really like and they actually stay put) , feel free to tell me
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'd recommend the 1More iBFree about £25 from Aliexpress, there's also the new Xiaomi Bluetooth earphones which I'd imagine are very similar but haven't tried yet.


----------



## Ruben123

caipirina said:


> I went through about 50 of the 1000+ pages in this thread, but alas, I could not really find what I am looking for.
> 
> HDSE, I found only some vague 'they are bad, no, not that bad' ... kinda remarks ... how are they? I am always looking for something great for running, my dream would be a BT version of the ZS3 (feel free to point out some other BT headsets that I should look into, I recently got some elecom HPC40, i think this might me Japan only, which I really like and they actually stay put) , feel free to tell me
> 
> ...


 

 Get a $4 bluetooth earphone on Aliexpress, open it up, and solder your ZS3 to it. Ive done it with Sennheiser CX300s of which the cable broke and it's great really.


----------



## dudinacas

ricemanhk said:


> The difference between the small and medium is not THAT much...a bit too big is normally ok unless it's warping the silicone and breaking the seal.
> 
> Perhaps try thinner tips (most other IEMs come with those cheap thin ones, KZ stock tips are REALLY good), or some hybrids that are silicone + foam.  I think there's a post here where somebody showed how to make them yourself as well. Tri-flange tips could also help.
> 
> Worse case just get foam tips which will fit the best, but you'll need to keep replacing them.


 
 Currently I'm using the stock small tips, which fit my ears better than the Starline/Whirlwind tips which are a bit smaller. Where can you get hybrids?
  


coil said:


> Yeah, depends on person ear shape. Maybe for You - try Spiral Dot MS size that is inbetween M and S?


 
 I would get those, and I was looking at them earlier, but I'm not really willing to spend twice the price of my ATR on a pair of eartips at the moment. I might get them later, but not now.


----------



## Ptomerty

Hey: Did KZ change their memory foam eartips recently? I remember my old ATE had a flat bottom, and sealed EXTREMELY well. My current ATE-S tips, however, are curved at the end, leading to a very unnatural fit (for me). I tried ordering eartips from their official site, which had a picture of the old eartips, but they arrived today and they're all the new ones 
  
 Any help?


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> This is a fun, VERY bassy little cheapo earphone; YHC S600. Cheap too.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-YHC-S600-bass-earphone-sports-headphones-dynamic-Headset-with-mic-for-iPhone-xiaomi-samsung-smartphones/32717330843.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.264.SvX0G3&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1483897681186&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=48b01c62c6a24cf6803a864f07e8d4c4-1483897681186-01325-VnYZvQVf
> 
> ​


 

 Yes sir, indeed they are and my 15 year old's current favorite
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 He got a short in one side of his ZN1 Mini's (got him another pair on the way) but the YHC is for sure killer for the price, obviously based off the old Shure 2 series shell they IMHO can't be beat for $4 USD and put the $9.99 Skull Candies at Best Buy to shame. Glad you turned me onto these B9, I put a pair in everyone's stocking this Christmas and the compliments just keep coming back to me.
  
 I also have to agree with Griffiths post once again however I feel the silver ZST and ZS3 cables are a worthwhile investment
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However like your back and forth testing I found my marked improvement by going back to the stock cable after prolonged listening with silver on them and to my ears now the stock cable is just sloppy. YMMV as it is all subjective to ones hearing and preferences but for me the silver cable is the way to go


----------



## doggiemom

griffith said:


> So after confirming that the ATR are not an upgrade to the ATE as many claimed... (they are completely different-sounding earphones with very differing characteristics overlap with each other much less than the actual design of the earphones) and confirming the the ZST are also not an upgrade to the ZS3 or ATR for the same reasons as the ones mentioned between the parenthesis I'm here to slay two of this thread's enduring repeated questions and boogeymen:
> Is the ZST colorful, also referred to as ZST Pro by some vendors, better or different than the non-colorful ZST?
> 
> And finally... the one you've all been waiting for: Does the ZST silver upgrade cable improve the sound quality of the ZST?


 
 Thank you for taking the time to do some comparisons and write this.  I agree with you in regards to "is x an upgrade to y"...... they are all a decent bang for the buck, but have distinctive sound signatures that will appeal to different people based on his or her preferences.
  
 I have both the black and colorful ZSTs, and can't tell a difference.  Both (to me, and maybe just to me!) they are a tad too bright.
  
 I own and prefer the silver upgrade cable for the ZS3, ZST and ED12...... there is a subtle difference in sound, but a noticeable difference in comfort, which must be considered against how much $ someone is willing to spend on an inexpensive IEM.
  
 Hopefully people will read your post..... this thread seems to be turning into a place for people to pop in and ask the same questions over and over again without searching or reading a bit.


----------



## ricemanhk

dudinacas said:


> Currently I'm using the stock small tips, which fit my ears better than the Starline/Whirlwind tips which are a bit smaller. Where can you get hybrids?


 
 Sony makes them, but seems only sold in Japan or through ebay resellers.  Found a link on amazon
 https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Noise-Isolation-Ep-exn50m-Imports/dp/B005OT3O5A/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
  
 Here's a link on how to DIY
 http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/headphones-earphones-portable-media-devices-314/diy-hybrid-tips-mod-iem-5060314.html#post94051847


----------



## waynes world

caipirina said:


> actually, this is one of my fav sport setups: My 50mm Phillips (9500 something? The ones with the sweat friendly textile earpads) and an AGPtek bt receiver ... works well if no one else plays loud music in the gym.


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> So far the only over ear for work out option I could come up with
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


  
 That's pretty cool. I might look for something like that for my vmoda m100's that I use at the gym. I'd also need a bluetooth transmitter though for my phone+zuperdac because I don't like the SQ straight out of my Galaxy S5. I presume transmitters such as that exist!


----------



## Mus1c

podster said:


> Yes sir, indeed they are and my 15 year old's current favorite He got a short in one side of his ZN1 Mini's (got him another pair on the way) but the YHC is for sure killer for the price, obviously based off the old Shure 2 series shell they IMHO can't be beat for $4 USD and put the $9.99 Skull Candies at Best Buy to shame. Glad you turned me onto these B9, I put a pair in everyone's stocking this Christmas and the compliments just keep coming back to me.
> 
> I also have to agree with Griffiths post once again however I feel the silver ZST and ZS3 cables are a worthwhile investment:wink_face: However like your back and forth testing I found my marked improvement by going back to the stock cable after prolonged listening with silver on them and to my ears now the stock cable is just sloppy. YMMV as it is all subjective to ones hearing and preferences but for me the silver cable is the way to go


 Yo by the cable on that zst is litbro


----------



## Mus1c

crabdog said:


> Did some searching as I hadn't heard of RTJ before. I was expecting something that would make me grimace and cringe like lil' Wayne, Drake etc (no offense to any fans) but was very pleasantly surprised. Can't believe I didn't know about this earlier. Thanks!


indeed kz has the best treble.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> This is a fun, VERY bassy little cheapo earphone; YHC S600. Cheap too.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-YHC-S600-bass-earphone-sports-headphones-dynamic-Headset-with-mic-for-iPhone-xiaomi-samsung-smartphones/32717330843.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.264.SvX0G3&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1483897681186&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=48b01c62c6a24cf6803a864f07e8d4c4-1483897681186-01325-VnYZvQVf
> 
> ...


 No boy i dont prefer other than kz iem cuz im in kz holics mood bruh.i will buy the the big bass like kzs3 and ate-S THAT WILL BLOW MY HEAD OFFwith bass cuz i like to listen to edm much than other genre.


----------



## Mus1c

saoshyant said:


> Sadly, it's a commonly used tactic which means nothing.  I just assume nothing if a headphone claims super bass, extreme bass, anything like that.


 Thats stupid is like your cheat your consumer by saying it extream bass or ultra bass for grabs people attention.Thats must be a marketing management idea. Such a shame people who like me will be trap by those wordz.


----------



## mimuweb

Loving my ZS3! However, as the ED9, a bit heavy for my small ears.... I'm looking for a smaller drives and common fit... Which are the more suitable for my needs?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mimuweb said:


> Loving my ZS3! However, as the ED9, a bit heavy for my small ears.... I'm looking for a smaller drives and common fit... Which are the more suitable for my needs?


 
  
 Give the HDS1 a go. Small, light, good sound.


----------



## Keller1

Anything from The HDS series. Those use micro drivers so they're really small.


----------



## hoerlurar

b9scrambler said:


> mimuweb said:
> 
> 
> > Loving my ZS3! However, as the ED9, a bit heavy for my small ears.... I'm looking for a smaller drives and common fit... Which are the more suitable for my needs?
> ...


 
 I agree!
 My yellow HDS1 will soon get replaced by a blue HDS1 with mic, since i mostly listen from my phone or tablet.
 I should get the HDS3 soon as well, got a bit too curious not to spend the $4.50 to try it...


----------



## mimuweb

Thank you guys!


----------



## To.M

mimuweb said:


> Loving my ZS3! However, as the ED9, a bit heavy for my small ears.... I'm looking for a smaller drives and common fit... Which are the more suitable for my needs?




Maybe Urbanfun?


----------



## mindy123

do KZ do a sporty and/or wireless headphone?


----------



## rockingthearies

mindy123 said:


> do KZ do a sporty and/or wireless headphone?


 KZ HDSE


----------



## To.M

Good for sport, running in my case: QKZ W1 PRO, super comfy, durable and with good SQ


----------



## Saoshyant

The only downside to the QKZ W1 Pro for me at least is mine has a tendancy for the cable to detach a bit too easily.


----------



## To.M

Oh, that's bad, I've run dozens of times with them and never has it happened to me.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yep, I guess I got the unlucky pair.  I still recommend it as one of the better balanced sounds at it's price range.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Glad to hear the W1 Pro is still being recommended. Loving my pairs  Have both a Black and Blue/Red pair.


----------



## To.M

I guess they are the best sports option, well built, offer a good SQ and cheap so there is no despair if they break, which can happen during exercising.


----------



## B9Scrambler

to.m said:


> I guess they are the best sports option, well built, offer a good SQ and cheap so there is no despair if they break, which can happen during exercising.


 
  
 Definitely one of the better options. The hard case is nice too since you can just chuck it into your gym bag. For a beater earphone they're great.


----------



## mindy123

rockingthearies said:


> KZ HDSE


 
 oh wow, didn't realise there were decent bluetooth options in this price range


----------



## mindy123

to.m said:


> Good for sport, running in my case: QKZ W1 PRO, super comfy, durable and with good SQ


 
 these sound ideal, being waterproof almost sounds too good to be true!


----------



## To.M

Well, I ran with them in some light rains and in temperatures about +30C swimming in my own sweat and so far they have survived all of that


----------



## Caipirina

mindy123 said:


> oh wow, didn't realise there were decent bluetooth options in this price range


 I am looking into those at well and keep coming across claims of fairly short battery life (2h). From feedback on AE


----------



## Budgetguy

Guys iam a bit confused to pick wich type of kz i should buy. I like the sound sig of ath m50, and iam looking for a good sound separation. Any help from the pro and my budget is 5-10$


----------



## KcLKcL

budgetguy said:


> Guys iam a bit confused to pick wich type of kz i should buy. I like the sound sig of ath m50, and iam looking for a good sound separation. Any help from the pro and my budget is 5-10$




Get the ZS3


----------



## Shadowsora

FINALLY! Gonna post my impressions soon.

  
 EDIT: 3 mins in and I am already laughing at the no sub bass statements I read quite some time ago, well.....
  
 EDIT 2: There is no point on saying the same things again, my opinion on those are the same as @CoiL (As I expected) except CoiL is a lot better than me at "reviewing" and expressing his opinions using correct terminology, so yeah xD.
 THOUGH I will compare them to ATE(by memory), these seem like a more "closed" version of ATE with more natural lows and a bit more analytical highs? Can't be sure without comparing them directly.
  
 For anyone not into V-Shaped IEMS this is surely a *GREAT* IEM, and for the V-Shaped fans it's a great complementary IEM to swap your daily driver once in a while,  you can listen to music for hours without feeling fatigued.
 Note I am not saying these lack bass or highs at all, but many people are used to more "shiny" highs so they may find them lacking that wow factor.


----------



## Saoshyant

ATR arrived today from Gearbest, actually beating out one of my 11.11 orders.  Given my tendency to listen primarily to earbuds instead of IEMs, the sound signature is something I'm rather used to.  Honestly, if I wanted the typical earbud signature but closed for isolation, this would be a budget recommendation.  It has enough bass for bands like Portishead to sound reasonable, so I'm happy with that.


----------



## ayao

The 2-month delivery deadline expired for my (Gearbest) ATR, so opted for a replacement pair! Let's hope this one will make it


----------



## hoerlurar

I just received my gearbest order for the KZ HDS3 and HDS1 with mic. Unfortunately i received another mic-less HDS1, my second failed attempt to buy a HDS1 with mic, and including the mic-less ED3c i also received from gearbest that's 3 times i got the wrong version... luckily i've been refunded the previous times after contacting CS and providing pictures
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Here's a pic of the HDS1 and the HDS3, both are tiny! The HDS3 does not have the usual KZ cable nor the rugged L-plug, instead using a little bit thinner cable and more fragile looking L-plug. The HDS3 also combines the y-split and mic+button.


----------



## To.M

Now off you go to have a long listening session! Nice KZ collection you have gathered!


----------



## thebluebulk

Recently received my new pair of ED12's. Plugged them into my phone and gave them a listen but my first impressions were not good at all. They sounded overly warm with harsh sibilance. This is not what I expected reading everyone's impressions. So I plugged them into my FiiO E10K USB headphone amp and WOW now I'm shocked! They also paired well with my Sansa clip+. These are some of the most well balanced (to my ears) earbuds I've heard. For this price? It's hard to believe. That makes pair 5 of my KZ collection and growing. I think I have a problem...


----------



## Tartix

I just received my pair of ZS3 and they sure are bass heavy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I initially noticed the treble is slightly affected by the angle and position of the iems. Can anyone confirm me this? Or is this just common knowledge? haha


----------



## hoerlurar

to.m said:


> Now off you go to have a long listening session! Nice KZ collection you have gathered!


 
 So far they're ok. after 10 min comparing them to my HDS1 (that have probably 30+ hours of use, not sure if they're burned in as well) i think the hds1 might sound clearer, with better highs. Or more specifically, the cymbals in my metal sounds better with HDS1.
 Also tried my urbanfun hybrids, and the hybrids are more balanced and have more details
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 OOTB with large stock tips that are excellent on the HDS1, the HDS3 is lacking some treble for my preferences. When i added +2/+4 for treble on my fiio e17 they became better.
 At least they sound better than my xiaomi original hybrid to me...
  


thebluebulk said:


> Recently received my new pair of ED12's. Plugged them into my phone and gave them a listen but my first impressions were not good at all. They sounded overly warm with harsh sibilance. This is not what I expected reading everyone's impressions. So I plugged them into my FiiO E10K USB headphone amp and WOW now I'm shocked! They also paired well with my Sansa clip+. These are some of the most well balanced (to my ears) earbuds I've heard. For this price? It's hard to believe. That makes pair 5 of my KZ collection and growing. I think I have a problem...


 
 I don't think i've read about anyone who liked the ed12?
 only 5 pair of KZ? let us help you? (ATR, HDS1, EDR2, ED9, ZS3 are my high five of KZ)


----------



## thebluebulk

hoerlurar said:


> So far they're ok. after 10 min comparing them to my HDS1 (that have probably 30+ hours of use, not sure if they're burned in as well) i think the hds1 might sound clearer, with better highs. Or more specifically, the cymbals in my metal sounds better with HDS1.
> Also tried my urbanfun hybrids, and the hybrids are more balanced and have more details:bigsmile_face:
> OOTB with large stock tips that are excellent on the HDS1, the HDS3 is lacking some treble for my preferences. When i added +2/+4 for treble on my fiio e17 they became better.
> At least they sound better than my xiaomi original hybrid to me...
> ...


 

I have ZS3 ED9 but prefer ED12. ATR in the mail. (Adding EDR2 HDS1 to buy list)


----------



## thebluebulk

tartix said:


> I just received my pair of ZS3 and they sure are bass heavy :basshead:  I initially noticed the treble is slightly affected by the angle and position of the iems. Can anyone confirm me this? Or is this just common knowledge? haha




I agree bass and mid bass heavy. Not enough sparkle for me. Position does affect the sound quite a bit.


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> THOUGH I will compare them to ATE(by memory),* these seem like a more "closed" version of ATE with more natural lows and a bit more analytical highs*? Can't be sure without comparing them directly.


 
 Confirmed by me


----------



## Budgetguy

Wich one is more fun to hear atr or zs3? Planning to order one of these bad boys today


----------



## Griffith

budgetguy said:


> Wich one is more fun to hear atr or zs3? Planning to order one of these bad boys today


 
  
 They are very similar sounding in my opinion. The ZS3 is slightly more controlled in its bass than the ATR, if I'm not mistaken, and has better build quality and features but it's not two times better than the ATR by any measure although the price difference between them is.
  
 If you want the best value, you can't go wrong with the ATR, but if you want something with better hardware/features and that you can keep for a longer period of time (thanks to its replaceable cable) and wear more comfortably, then the ZS3 is the way to go. Happy listening.


----------



## BWAS1000

dagobert said:


> I guess almost everybody here knows that feeling,waiting for a package,then coming home and its there!Its almost a present for youre self every time
> Today i got mine KZ ED(R)2.First i will tell mine opinion for so far,listing to them as we speak.Its mine first time doing this,so i hope i am doing it right:tongue_smile:
> 
> The bass is jaw dropping,its low enough,deep,depending on the song ofcourse.I am a bit of a bass head,so i really like it.Its not overwelming or pounding tho.Top score for the bass if you ask me.
> ...




Actually my ED Special Editions came in the same case.

Also, I went to wash the tips in my EDR2, and the entire nozzle just breaks off when I remove the tips Hasn't happened on the EDSE so I hope that was a dud.


I was actually hoping mine came in the case


----------



## Kerkyboi

mus1c said:


> No boy i dont prefer other than kz iem cuz im in kz holics mood bruh.i will buy the the big bass like kzs3 and ate-S THAT WILL BLOW MY HEAD OFFwith bass cuz i like to listen to edm much than other genre.



It wouldn't actually blow your head off with its bass but yes, if you like your edm tracks, you will surely love how the zs3 will play with your ears, its big soundstage will actually make you feel you're in a big room. 




budgetguy said:


> Guys iam a bit confused to pick wich type of kz i should buy. I like the sound sig of ath m50, and iam looking for a good sound separation. Any help from the pro and my budget is 5-10$



Go for the ZS3, I have the M50s too and this little bad boys will not disappoint.




thebluebulk said:


> Recently received my new pair of ED12's. Plugged them into my phone and gave them a listen but my first impressions were not good at all. They sounded overly warm with harsh sibilance. This is not what I expected reading everyone's impressions. So I plugged them into my FiiO E10K USB headphone amp and WOW now I'm shocked! They also paired well with my Sansa clip+. These are some of the most well balanced (to my ears) earbuds I've heard. For this price? It's hard to believe. That makes pair 5 of my KZ collection and growing. I think I have a problem...



Glad to see someone actually appreciated them, mine never arrived so gearbest already refunded me with the cost. Planning to use the refund money for the HDSE though. 




budgetguy said:


> Wich one is more fun to hear atr or zs3? Planning to order one of these bad boys today



They both share the same fun sound signature so I say buy them both. Im going to use my ATR as beaters and the ZS3 for EDM tracks and games lol. The ZS3s bigger soundstage makes it easier for me to hear footstep location of my incoming prey on CSGO.


----------



## Mus1c

kerkyboi said:


> It wouldn't actually blow your head off with its bass but yes, if you like your edm tracks, you will surely love how the zs3 will play with your ears, its big soundstage will actually make you feel you're in a big room.
> Go for the ZS3, I have the M50s too and this little bad boys will not disappoint.
> Glad to see someone actually appreciated them, mine never arrived so gearbest already refunded me with the cost. Planning to use the refund money for the HDSE though.
> They both share the same fun sound signature so I say buy them both. Im going to use my ATR as beaters and the ZS3 for EDM tracks and games lol. The ZS3s bigger soundstage makes it easier for me to hear footstep location of my incoming prey on CSGO.


 i sure that kzs3 will be my perfect iem for daily dose of edm music tq for the impression.


----------



## alvinlim2010

mus1c said:


> i sure that kzs3 will be my perfect iem for daily dose of edm music tq for the impression.


 

 After hearing all the positive comments about the Z3 for its soundstage, is it comparable to the Havi Pro3?


----------



## Vidal

alvinlim2010 said:


> After hearing all the positive comments about the Z3 for its soundstage, is it comparable to the Havi Pro3?


 
  
  
 Really? I didn't think the ZS3 was that special for soundstage.


----------



## VShaft

So, after about a month of waiting my *ZS2* finally arrived from GB.
  
 I chose the ZS2 over the ZS3 simply because I wanted to try a dual-driver IEM for the first time. My first KZ were an ATE-S purchased a couple of months back, and I love them. Some time later, on the forum, someone suggested to try the ZS1 for a different sound. I got the ZS2 instead because I thought the ZS2 must be a tweak/improvement over the ZS1.
  
 Well, at first I wasn't blown away by how they sounded (with 'starline' M tips). The bass was very overwhelming, constantly rumbling in the background and just sort of drowning everything else in it. After a week, I was about to give up on them, when I remembered that I had wide bore tips laying around somewhere, which I never really use. So I switched my usually preferred 'starline' M tips with those. And wow!
  
 The change really made a difference. The bass is not so overwhelming, and the ZS2 sounds exactly how I'd wanted them to sound!
  
 Now *this* sounds majestic


----------



## nocchi

Got the ZST 2 days ago and I'm quite satisfied on its sound quality, though I find it little too bright IMO. But overall its a all rounder IEM. 

Oh btw the zst logo is kinda boring so I had change it lol


----------



## mrazik

Same here, got ZST few days back. I bought them from pure curiosity and I´m quite surprised with sound and fit. My only objection is cable, but there is replacement available, so I´m glade, I took them.


----------



## Mus1c

alvinlim2010 said:


> After hearing all the positive comments about the Z3 for its soundstage, is it comparable to the Havi Pro3?


yes it comparable with havi pro3 with those big soundstage and extream bass bass but i dont have havi pro2 so can't compare it.


----------



## Mus1c

vshaft said:


> So, after about a month of waiting my *ZS2* finally arrived from GB.
> 
> I chose the ZS2 over the ZS3 simply because I wanted to try a dual-driver IEM for the first time. My first KZ were an ATE-S purchased a couple of months back, and I love them. Some time later, on the forum, someone suggested to try the ZS1 for a different sound. I got the ZS2 instead because I thought the ZS2 must be a tweak/improvement over the ZS1.
> 
> ...


describe the word majesticand how does you want it to be sound?


----------



## Mus1c

nocchi said:


> Got the ZST 2 days ago and I'm quite satisfied on its sound quality, though I find it little too bright IMO. But overall its a all rounder IEM.
> 
> Oh btw the zst logo is kinda boring so I had change it lol


WOW THATS LOOK SICK BRO. IT LIKE VERY EXPENSIVE IEM AFTER YOU TOOK OFF THE KZ LOGO DAMN GOOD WORK BRO.


----------



## Mus1c

Man i really enjoyed my atr...
 feels like heaven.Altough this doesn't have that heavily bloated bass it has nice all round sound feels really relax when listen to edm genre without bass but other than edm genre is perfect.i Really recommended if somebody who prefer less bass and controlled bass,focused on the detail or listen to other genre such as pop,classic, rock or etc... their really good but beside if you listen to edm genre you will felt mising the part that on bass.


----------



## Djsenjaya

toddy0191 said:


> Just received my ZST and initial impressions out of the box are WOW!
> 
> Crystal clear highs loads of detail massive soundstage and great bass that digs deep.
> 
> ...




To me it was sibilance. Soundstage was average. And yes i have 3 pair of zst. 2 rainbow and 1 carbon. Never like them. 
Zs3 was different. On the first time i try it. It blows my mind. This is the earphone that has all aspects nearly perfect. Soundstage, treble was done right, mid and bass has enough quantity. 

Ive tried **** dt2 plus and i can say zs3 was better than dt2 plus with triple driver.


----------



## Griffith

vidal said:


> Really? I didn't think the ZS3 was that special for soundstage.


 
 I concur, the ZS3 has many qualities but soundstage is not one of them. ED9 has better soundstage IMO and the ATE and ZST wipe the floor with either of them.


----------



## Griffith

djsenjaya said:


> To me it was sibilance. Soundstage was average. And yes i have 3 pair of zst. 2 rainbow and 1 carbon. Never like them.
> Zs3 was different. On the first time i try it. It blows my mind. This is the earphone that has all aspects nearly perfect. Soundstage, treble was done right, mid and bass has enough quantity.
> 
> Ive tried **** dt2 plus and i can say zs3 was better than dt2 plus with triple driver.


 
  
 I can understand why coming from Sennheiser you'd appreciate the ZS3 more than the ZST. Although I love the ZST's sound, it can get tiresome to listen due to it's bright somewhat harsh highs (though that can be alleviated slightly with the silver cable or more so with equalization). In my opinion, the ZS3 one of the easiest to recommend earphones from KZ's lineup, the ZST is a good earphone for people that appreciate fun, forward sounding earphones whereas the ZS3 are a comfortable bassy earphone that can be used for many hours without any discomfort.
  
 I think that you'd like the ATE more than the ZST if you like Sennheiser's signature sound. The ATE is not as warm sounding as the ZST, nor as forward but it has more clarity than the ZS3, a significantly better soundstage (similar or better to the ZST's) and more recessed but tighter bass, provided you have a good seal on your earphone tips.


----------



## BWAS1000

Which KZs are Balanced Armature/dynamic hybrid?


----------



## To.M

Only one model so far, ZST. In the near (probably) future another one is supposed to be released.


----------



## Mus1c

bwas1000 said:


> Which KZs are Balanced Armature/dynamic hybrid?


kz zst


----------



## Djsenjaya

griffith said:


> I can understand why coming from Sennheiser you'd appreciate the ZS3 more than the ZST. Although I love the ZST's sound, it can get tiresome to listen due to it's bright somewhat harsh highs (though that can be alleviated slightly with the silver cable or more so with equalization). In my opinion, the ZS3 one of the easiest to recommend earphones from KZ's lineup, the ZST is a good earphone for people that appreciate fun, forward sounding earphones whereas the ZS3 are a comfortable bassy earphone that can be used for many hours without any discomfort.
> 
> I think that you'd like the ATE more than the ZST if you like Sennheiser's signature sound. The ATE is not as warm sounding as the ZST, nor as forward but it has more clarity than the ZS3, a significantly better soundstage (similar or better to the ZST's) and more recessed but tighter bass, provided you have a good seal on your earphone tips.




Actually I have kz Ate, ATR, zst and zs3. I prefer zs3 from all the type. Ate was too soft sounding for me. 
. Zst indeed was make me uncomfortable,and I found out 4in1 was better if one is searching for forward sounding earphone. But kz zst wins the build design. I love the design of zst candy tone


----------



## BWAS1000

mus1c said:


> kz zst




Only the ZST?


----------



## Drachen1

nocchi said:


> Got the ZST 2 days ago and I'm quite satisfied on its sound quality, though I find it little too bright IMO. But overall its a all rounder IEM.
> 
> Oh btw the zst logo is kinda boring so I had change it lol


 
 hey,
 looks awesome!
 How did you remove the logo?


----------



## VShaft

mus1c said:


> describe the word majesticand how does you want it to be sound?


 

 I can't really, I'm not at all versed in the technical audio jargon.
  
 I listen to a whole variety of music, but usually center around metal/rock and its subgenres (prog, death, doom, post-rock, post-metal). Currently I'm again in a post-rock phase, mainly due to the discovery of the band I linked above - *Halma*. Their music is slow, moody, chill, bassy, meditative, so very well produced. And with the purchase of the ZS2 I have a smile on my face when listening to it, and can't wait for my evening listening sessions of their material.
  
 So, majestic 
  
 And how I wanted my ZS2 to sound? Well, I just wanted to hear dual-drivers, for the novelty of it. Knowing a bit about the ZS2's sound signature, I expected them to be bassier than my ATE-S, but not exactly muffled (or muddy). But that's how they sounded with the stock/starline tips. With the wide bores, however, I'm liking them quite a bit. The bass is not so overwhelming, at the rest of the frequency range isn't so drowned by the bassiness. that's the best I can put it with my limited audio vocabulary.


----------



## Degree

Hey guys, where would be the best place to purchase the ZS3?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## To.M

http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## Podster

to.m said:


> http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


 

 Good call To.M
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Where I got mine: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS3/32680596348.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.vme67T
  
 Such a loving, sharing, enabling
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 community we have here


----------



## To.M




----------



## squallkiercosa

nocchi said:


> Got the ZST 2 days ago and I'm quite satisfied on its sound quality, though I find it little too bright IMO. But overall its a all rounder IEM.
> 
> Oh btw the zst logo is kinda boring so I had change it lol


 
 How did you change it?


----------



## tobar

Hi! I've bought zs3, zst and ed9. I love zst, and zs3 for the sound, however i have a problem with the left tips. Probably i have the left ear more big than the right and using the L tip size the left didn't remain in position. Honestly i didn't read all the post, so I ask.. Someone know where I can find some other economic tips or wich product i could search for?


----------



## BWAS1000

$20 to spend. I need to buy some KZs. One for me and one for my friend. Choices please.

Genres, to name a few: Future Bass, Progressive House, Drum and Bass, Melodic Dubstep, Rock/Metal, Electro House


----------



## gobin

I absolutely love my KZ ZS3 so far. Its fit and noise isolation is just great, though my ears starts to feel uncomfortable after 4 hours or more of wearing. Difinitely be my choice for listening to podcast/music on public transport. 
  
 The sound after 2 weeks remains somewhat similar in comparison with its OOTB sound, which is having a satisfying bass and non fatiguing or smooth treble. The detail and clarity, however, is nothing special or outstanding, but I would say it is average.


----------



## BWAS1000

Also, which KZs carry an MMCX cable?


----------



## ayao

bwas1000 said:


> Also, which KZs carry an MMCX cable?




None of the current models have MMCX connectors. I think KZ did use MMCX a long time ago (KZ R3?); one of the veterans would have to confirm this.


----------



## BWAS1000

ayao said:


> None of the current models have MMCX connectors. I think KZ did use MMCX a long time ago (KZ R3?); one of the veterans would have to confirm this.




I saw people comparing cables and I assumed at least one used MMCX, guess that wasn't right. 

The ATEs are balanced armatures right? How does the bass compare to the EDSE?


----------



## robervaul

nocchi said:


> Got the ZST 2 days ago and I'm quite satisfied on its sound quality, though I find it little too bright IMO. But overall its a all rounder IEM.
> 
> Oh btw the zst logo is kinda boring so I had change it lol


 
 Have you used this ?   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Btw, I don't how you removed the ZST name lol


----------



## MAntunes

Any news of the ZSR?
 Does anyone know the price?


----------



## robervaul

mantunes said:


> Any news of the ZSR?
> Does anyone know the price?


 
 It is not available yet, they will release it after Chinese New Year. It is expected to be available on Feb.
 The retail price is around 599 RMB (90 USD).
 They are going to high class.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

Well let's hope it's 90 dollars final price


----------



## hoerlurar

robervaul said:


> mantunes said:
> 
> 
> > Any news of the ZSR?
> ...




Where did you get that info?


----------



## sudosysgen

Well my KZ ZST now sound a lot less loud and muffled on one side. It seems as if one of the drivers disconnected. I'll see if I can fix it, it's definitely not a wire problem since I switched the wires, neither is it and ear problem. The frequency response also changed.


----------



## nocchi

drachen1 said:


> hey,
> looks awesome!
> How did you remove the logo?






squallkiercosa said:


> How did you change it?




I soaked the faceplate on a nail polish remover for about 20 minutes or more, until you notice that the top coat layer is starting to chip-off when scratched.





robervaul said:


> Have you used this ?
> 
> Btw, I don't how you removed the ZST name lol




lol I didn't use liquid paper eraser to write those, but I did use this silver paint and used toothpick to write on it. Kinda messy but the good thing is you can re-do everything by wiping off some nail polish remover.


----------



## zwspore

Thinking of getting a pair of ZST or ZS3. I noticed that they have detachable 2-pin cables. If I replace them with balanced cables, could use them as balanced earphones?
  
 Anyone tried that before?


----------



## Shawn71

zwspore said:


> Thinking of getting a pair of ZST or ZS3. I noticed that they have detachable 2-pin cables. If I replace them with balanced cables, could use them as balanced earphones?
> 
> Anyone tried that before?




Yes it works if the pin connections are correct.......you planned to make one yourself or looking for an after-marjer 2 pin cables like UE style?.


----------



## CoiL

bwas1000 said:


> $20 to spend. I need to buy some KZs. One for me and one for my friend. Choices please.
> Genres, to name a few: Future Bass, Progressive House, Drum and Bass, Melodic Dubstep, Rock/Metal, Electro House


 


bwas1000 said:


> ayao said:
> 
> 
> > None of the current models have MMCX connectors. I think KZ did use MMCX a long time ago (KZ R3?); one of the veterans would have to confirm this.
> ...


 
 ayao is right, none of the KZ IEM`s have MMCX atm. But You also saw things right - You can pretty easily make AT* lineup IEM`s MMCX capable. 
 I`ve done it to my ATE and ATR.
  
 But for Your genre preference - I would rather go with ZST or ED9 (using gold nozzle filter).


----------



## Shawn71

[quote name="BWAS1000" url="/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/15315#post_13

The ATEs are balanced armatures right?[/quote]

No,they are dynamic drivers.......only zst black (carbon) / colorful (pro) has a BA( and a dynamic as a dual hybrid) for now.


----------



## zwspore

shawn71 said:


> Yes it works if the pin connections are correct.......you planned to make one yourself or looking for an after-marjer 2 pin cables like UE style?.


 
 Thanks for the quick reply, appreciate it! 
  
 I'm thinking of buying a pair of 2-pin balanced cables with 2.5mm TRRS. I have zero DIY skills unfortunately... I saw some balanced 2-pin cables on Taobao that looks pretty decent. 
  
 Just ordered a Aune M1s player that comes with balanced 2.5mm output. I'm keen to try some balanced earphones with it to see how it would sound


----------



## Shawn71

zwspore said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, appreciate it!
> 
> I'm thinking of buying a pair of 2-pin balanced cables with 2.5mm TRRS. I have zero DIY skills unfortunately... I saw some balanced 2-pin cables on Taobao that looks pretty decent.
> 
> Just ordered a Aune M1s player that comes with balanced 2.5mm output. I'm keen to try some balanced earphones with it to see how it would sound




Ah Np.......OK, so you might want to check with that seller whether the pins fit your zst,both physically (pin dia) & electrically(matching polarity).If you know chinese (? guessing by your name you are a singaporean?) that might make your day easy.

On a side note, read someone saying one model accepts both the cables but the other model dont but its own.those models are zst and zs3 coz they both have UE style pins.

Introducing a 2.5mm/3.5mm - trrs/trs adapter in the chain will be of no use,so dont waste your money and time.


----------



## Mus1c

bwas1000 said:


> Only the ZST?


yes it is this is their first ba+dd iem and coming soon the kz zsr that will be 10 ba in one iem.


----------



## Mus1c

bwas1000 said:


> $20 to spend. I need to buy some KZs. One for me and one for my friend. Choices please.
> 
> Genres, to name a few: Future Bass, Progressive House, Drum and Bass, Melodic Dubstep, Rock/Metal, Electro House


kzs3


----------



## Mus1c

robervaul said:


> It is not available yet, they will release it after Chinese New Year. It is expected to be available on Feb.
> The retail price is around 599 RMB (90 USD).
> They are going to high class.


WOW MUCH EXPENSIVE THAN OTHER KZS


----------



## crabdog

mus1c said:


> WOW MUCH EXPENSIVE THAN OTHER KZS



If the KZ quality sound scales with the price these could be EPIC.


----------



## Mus1c

crabdog said:


> If the KZ quality sound scales with the price these could be EPIC.


 I think so thats y the price so damn high than other kz.


----------



## Keller1

crabdog said:


> If the KZ quality sound scales with the price these could be EPIC.


 
 To be honest i do expect a significant diminishing returns by jumping 9 times in price, I atleast hope they will be a significant upgrade over the ZST and use more premium materials this time around.


----------



## ricemanhk

Poster didn't provide any source for that information.  I couldn't find anything on the ZSR even in Chinese. 
 Let's just wait and see...


----------



## BWAS1000

shawn71 said:


> [quote name="BWAS1000" url="/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/15315#post_13
> 
> The ATEs are balanced armatures right?




No,they are dynamic drivers.......only zst black (carbon) / colorful (pro) has a BA( and a dynamic as a dual hybrid) for now.[/quote]
I saw it advertised as a balanced armature, so I thought it was



mus1c said:


> yes it is this is their first ba+dd iem and coming soon the kz zsr that will be 10 ba in one iem.



I'll try it soon enough



mus1c said:


> kzs3




Thanks


coil said:


> ayao is right, none of the KZ IEM`s have MMCX atm. But You also saw things right - You can pretty easily make AT* lineup IEM`s MMCX capable.
> I`ve done it to my ATE and ATR.
> 
> But for Your genre preference - I would rather go with ZST or ED9 (using gold nozzle filter).




I'll keep an eye on the ED9 then


----------



## fredhubbard2

Just dropping by to say how amazed I am with my ZST. Had them just over a week and I cant put them down for long, easily comparable to IEMs x4 the price. Pairing beautifully with xDuoo x3.

Dunno about any other KZs but these are defo hype worthy.


----------



## crabdog

fredhubbard2 said:


> Just dropping by to say how amazed I am with my ZST. Had them just over a week and I cant put them down for long, easily comparable to IEMs x4 the price. Pairing beautifully with xDuoo x3.
> 
> Dunno about any other KZs but these are defo hype worthy.


 
 I agree with you. A few people are saying the treble is harsh but I have not experienced that in the least (I have the colorful). ZST is a real bargain.


----------



## fredhubbard2

crabdog said:


> I agree with you. A few people are saying the treble is harsh but I have not experienced that in the least (I have the colorful). ZST is a real bargain.


 
  
 yeh no harshness or sibilance here got the original black ones., although people are saying they expose cruddy bitrates.


----------



## crabdog

Found a good price for ATR on AliExpress $4.64::
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-KZ-ATR-In-Ear-Headphones-Noise-Canceling-Earbuds-3-5mm-Stereo-Headset-Original-KZ-Mp3/202190_32696181984.html


----------



## Shawn71

keller1 said:


> To be honest i do expect a significant diminishing returns by jumping 9 times in price, I atleast hope they will be a significant upgrade over the ZST and use more premium materials this time around.




Yeah have to agree to some extent in dimishing returns.......but I guess they are putting some serious man hours and premium materials (like you said) into everything this time until QC checked and nicely packed, so the pricing.

Speaking of kz, They showcased many possibilities in the budget IEM world, like micro dynamic,wooden shells,tunable filters,dual dynamic,miniature shells,introduced atheir own built-in amp with a model to custom the sound,and lastly the dual hybrids and the removable cables, still within the impressive lower price point.

And we have seen their models bassy,trebly,balanced,good/avge SS and vg imaging,fun,U'ish etc already so I wish zsr pro cld be a strong one in mid-centric,huge SS with all 3 areas even, and pin point imaging and oh, the tough call "the coherency". yeah,expectations are high when the price goes up.


----------



## Shawn71

bwas1000 said:


> I'll keep an eye on the ED9 then




And also zs3.......I recommend for edm,rock (crispy) etc even tupac,no regrets.


----------



## Keller1

shawn71 said:


> Yeah have to agree to some extent in dimishing returns.......but I guess they are putting some serious man hours and premium materials (like you said) into everything this time until QC checked and nicely packed, so the pricing.
> 
> Speaking of kz, They showcased many possibilities in the budget IEM world, like micro dynamic,wooden shells,tunable filters,dual dynamic,miniature shells,introduced atheir own built-in amp with a model to custom the sound,and lastly the dual hybrids and the removable cables, still within the impressive lower price point.
> 
> ...


 

 My wish list includes crisp/broad imaging / sound, while still being thumpy and rumbly, all with a whole lot of transparency. with actual decent QA and QC, aswell as hopefully campfire audio shell and a removable MMCX cable.

 Now that might be a bit much, but when you consider what they've done for less i'd say it has a pretty good chance we'll get something along those lines.
 The ED9/RX are very-well machined and still cheap, which means that aluminum shells are not out of the question, though them being campfire-audio lookalikes is so far just a rumor.
 The ZST has the beginnings of amazing sound, by adding more drivers they'll tone up everything, so there's no question that the sound's probably gonna be the high point.
 QA and QC i doubt they'll skimp on because this is their first 'highend' model, so they'll need to prove that they're able to compete.
  
 The only thing i doubt is the MMCX, i dont think kz has ever made a pair of MMCX IEMs, even though they hadnt made removable cable IEMS either and the ZS3/ED12/ZST incorporate that feature really well.
  
 Oh, and hopefully a good but crazy color aesthetic.


----------



## robervaul

Directly from the KZ company.


----------



## To.M

You clearly have good sources, sir!  I expected the price to be 80-100usd so now I need to buy a piggy bank right away


----------



## Saoshyant

I was hoping around $50, but will still buy as I assume it'll still have great value


----------



## Thomas De Brito

saoshyant said:


> I was hoping around $50, but will still buy as I assume it'll still have great value


 too cheap is not good sometimes. I don't mind paying more if they make a greatp pair that last a long time. They earned the right to have an little extra from kz fans


----------



## bibinjohn5000

My KZ ZST bought from gearbest for $ 15.94


----------



## B9Scrambler

nice!


----------



## zwspore

shawn71 said:


> Ah Np.......OK, so you might want to check with that seller whether the pins fit your zst,both physically (pin dia) & electrically(matching polarity).If you know chinese (? guessing by your name you are a singaporean?) that might make your day easy.
> 
> On a side note, read someone saying one model accepts both the cables but the other model dont but its own.those models are zst and zs3 coz they both have UE style pins.
> 
> Introducing a 2.5mm/3.5mm - trrs/trs adapter in the chain will be of no use,so dont waste your money and time.


 
 Thanks for the good advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will make sure to check with the cable seller if it will fit the ZST and ZS3 before taking the plunge. I can read and write basic Chinese, but sometimes will need to use Google translate for some of the more complex words when communicating with Taobao sellers. 
  
 You have very keen observation! Yes, I'm Singaporean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sorry I don't get what you mean by "introducing a 2.5mm/3/5mm TRRS/TRS adapter in the chain will be of no use". The 2-pin balanced cables that I am looking to buy terminates in a 2.5mm balanced jack. The Aune M1s player that I'm buying has a 2.5mm balanced output. I will just plug the cables with the 2.5mm jack straight to the 2.5mm output of the player and won't be adding on any other adapter. Am I missing something here??


----------



## Saoshyant

thomas de brito said:


> too cheap is not good sometimes. I don't mind paying more if they make a greatp pair that last a long time. They earned the right to have an little extra from kz fans


 
  
 I certainly agree, I just expected given the typical KZ price range that it'd be closer to 50-60 instead of 80-100 for a new flagship.  It's an impressive endeavor either way, and hopefully turns out well.  I know sometimes we get excited at the prospect of someone providing something at a lower price than usual, but we always must hope that the quality is retained.  I'm still a little skeptical about the Monoprice M560 for example which seems like a wonderful price for a planar, but the reviews are a little bothersome for now.


----------



## Shawn71

keller1 said:


> My wish list includes crisp/broad imaging / sound, while still being thumpy and rumbly, all with a whole lot of transparency. with actual decent QA and QC, aswell as hopefully campfire audio shell and a removable MMCX cable.
> 
> 
> Now that might be a bit much, but when you consider what they've done for less i'd say it has a pretty good chance we'll get something along those lines.
> ...




Oh yeah absolutely, all those oomph bass,ultra broad imaging etc shd be retained,the kz house sound..........

ed9 is definitely engineered precisely,the thread,length and flared port of the nozzles,the alum shells etc.

And if their looks are like some of the totl offering(like CFA) with a mmcx thats going to be a another benchmark for the other mid-tier and top-tier mfrs of known brands besides the other budget chi-fi mfrs.. 

Nevertheless,their first attempt with the 2 pin style removable cable might make them stay/continue with same 2 pin form or the success of it cld boost their confidence level in going for mmcx. who knows they do have some potential to introduce the linum T2 style ones?h34r:

oh well,lets wait and see.......another 40 days to go.


----------



## loomisjohnson

saoshyant said:


> I certainly agree, I just expected given the typical KZ price range that it'd be closer to 50-60 instead of 80-100 for a new flagship.  It's an impressive endeavor either way, and hopefully turns out well.  I know sometimes we get excited at the prospect of someone providing something at a lower price than usual, but we always must hope that the quality is retained.  I'm still a little skeptical about the Monoprice M560 for example which seems like a wonderful price for a planar, but the reviews are a little bothersome for now


 
 generally speaking, the marketplace isn't receptive to low-end manufacturers who try to go upscale--think hyundai trying to sell luxury cars. kz does a fantastic job at the $10 pricepoint--i'm positive if their iems were positioned at the $50 point this thread wouldn't be a thousand pages. ergo, a $100 kz will be quite a curiousity, but you got to wonder if they'll sell a ton of them.


----------



## Shawn71

zwspore said:


> Thanks for the good advice   I will make sure to check with the cable seller if it will fit the ZST and ZS3 before taking the plunge. I can read and write basic Chinese, but sometimes will need to use Google translate for some of the more complex words when communicating with Taobao sellers.
> 
> You have very keen observation! Yes, I'm Singaporean
> 
> Sorry I don't get what you mean by "introducing a 2.5mm/3/5mm TRRS/TRS adapter in the chain will be of no use". The 2-pin balanced cables that I am looking to buy terminates in a 2.5mm balanced jack. The Aune M1s player that I'm buying has a 2.5mm balanced output. I will just plug the cables with the 2.5mm jack straight to the 2.5mm output of the player and won't be adding on any other adapter. Am I missing something here??




ha ha ha yeah ;......Ok the adapter I was talkin about is something someone think wrongly that a balanced TRRS 2.5mm source cld still output balanced sound when connected to a TRS single ended 3.5mm IEMs by introducing a TRRS to TRS adapter between them,which is not.


----------



## Vidal

loomisjohnson said:


> generally speaking, the marketplace isn't receptive to low-end manufacturers who try to go upscale--think hyundai trying to sell luxury cars. kz does a fantastic job at the $10 pricepoint--i'm positive if their iems were positioned at the $50 point this thread wouldn't be a thousand pages. ergo, a $100 kz will be quite a curiousity, but you got to wonder if they'll sell a ton of them.


 
  
 I agree, given the questionable build quality at times it will really be a test of KZ abilities to build an earphone that stands shoulder to shoulder with earphones in the $200 bracket.


----------



## BWAS1000

shawn71 said:


> And also zs3.......I recommend for edm,rock (crispy) etc even tupac,no regrets.




If it was me alone I'd just buy a ZST, but I need to buy two, so the ED9. Or the EDSE


----------



## loomisjohnson

vidal said:


> I agree, given the questionable build quality at times it will really be a test of KZ abilities to build an earphone that stands shoulder to shoulder with earphones in the $200 bracket.


 

 i actually had the hyundai luxury car, the genesis--pretty good car, with an awesome lexicon stereo, but it wasn't lexus quality; it was just a little less polished/perfect. which, i realize, has no bearing whatsoever to kz headphones, but i do feel that it's usually a good idea to stick to what you do best. we'll see soon enough how kz does with their totl.


----------



## Keller1

loomisjohnson said:


> generally speaking, the marketplace isn't receptive to low-end manufacturers who try to go upscale--think hyundai trying to sell luxury cars. kz does a fantastic job at the $10 pricepoint--i'm positive if their iems were positioned at the $50 point this thread wouldn't be a thousand pages. ergo, a $100 kz will be quite a curiousity, but you got to wonder if they'll sell a ton of them.


 
  
  
 I really see no reason not to give KZ the benefit of the doubt when everything that's been fairly 'premium' i've had from a 'premium' manufacturer has turned out to be significantly flawed or an outright pile of crap.
 Sony cables become brittle in the cold and snap in half. My XBA3s suffered this fate. a few weeks later they were no longer usable.
 Then i got the mdr-1rbt - it had a plastic construction headband that developed cracking over time and were unusable in 6 months.
 Had a simillar experience with AKG. their K550 was really good until the weak plastic joints of the headphones gave way and the pads tore because faux leatherette disintegrates.
 Then there was the Grado SR325i - the most uncomfortable pair of headphones i've ever owned. Still, it was better made than anything i've had previously.
 Then i got the T50RP MK3, which arent as transparent as i'd like them to be but atleast they're built like a tank. I still have these.
  
 That being said, i got the KZ RX about at the time i got the 1rbt and it's still kicking. And it has a kickass sound for $8. The ZST goes up against the XBA3s and K550s for $12 in terms of SQ.
  
  
 Now i've had 2 critical failures with KZs. my ATE's jack [Which was sortof my fault] and my HDS3 at the joint [which it more sortof wasnt], and some QC issues [Cracking drivers when pushing on seal, no seal on one channel]. Those i could both take responsibility for (sleeping with HDS3, accidentially tugging on ATE ). Nothing feels like it'll fall apart as with junk earbuds or deliberately designed to fail in a very specific manner.
  
 I dont feel like there's a faustian bargain, like when i go Sony or AKG or Harman because if it works it'll just work, flawed as it may be. Even if the ZSR is way more expensive it seems KZ has earned my consumerly trust with what they've put out so far.
  
 That being said, all of my above experiences make me a huge KZ fanboi, so you could say im biased now lol.


----------



## To.M

Amen to that!  

I keep my fingers crossed for KZ, they have gained a lot of experience with budget earphones and why shouldn't they try to make a foray into a more lucrative part of the market? If they succeed, we will all benefit from it.


----------



## BWAS1000

bwas1000 said:


> If it was me alone I'd just buy a ZST, but I need to buy two, so the ED9. Or the EDSE




Did I say EDSE? I meant ATE


----------



## Podster

bwas1000 said:


> Did I say EDSE? I meant ATE


 

 ED9 was one of my first KZ's and still in my top three, only two filter choices but almost everyone I know likes one or the other. I still love mine either the chrome or black


----------



## Vidal

loomisjohnson said:


> i actually had the hyundai luxury car, the genesis--pretty good car, with an awesome lexicon stereo, but it wasn't lexus quality; it was just a little less polished/perfect. which, i realize, has no bearing whatsoever to kz headphones, but i do feel that it's usually a good idea to stick to what you do best. we'll see soon enough how kz does with their totl.


 
  
 We never saw the Genesis it the UK, would have like to see the Genesis Coupe at the very least. We don't see some big engine cars in the UK just because the petrol tax is so high over here, no one can afford to run them.


----------



## BWAS1000

podster said:


> ED9 was one of my first KZ's and still in my top three, only two filter choices but almost everyone I know likes one or the other. I still love mine either the chrome or black:wink_face:
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Was hesitant for the ED9s,because the EDSE are the perfect size for me, and the ED9 appear larger. The others are over the ESR style, and I've never worn any like that before


----------



## zabunny94

trust me, ed9 is smaller than edse in fact its the third smallest kz I've know, while micro ring and hds1/hds3 being the first and second, albeit a little heavier


----------



## SomeTechNoob

My 11/11 order finally came.  Just over 2 months for shipping LMAO.
  
 Potato pic.  Better/more and impressions coming soon.


----------



## bhazard

The ZST isn't necessarily bright with treble, but it does sound slightly artificial up there. Slight EQ takes care of it.
  
 They are very impressive for $12. I stayed up an extra hour the other night listening to some instrumentals and really got into it. Easily $60+ material.
  
 For $90 and 5 drivers, that flagship KZ will be a monster if it is tuned well with a good build quality. It is in line with what I would expect the price to be (remember, 10 drivers). Hope it is universal MMCX or 2-pin.


----------



## gemmoglock

Hi guys I've been inactive for a while. My ATRs should be reaching me next weekend so for now I'm still with my ZS3.
  
 I'm not sure if it's because I use it when lying down, but the left ZS3 unit is starting to have connection issues? It is intermittent and comes back after I adjust it, but it seems a contact has gone loose inside. Is anyone facing this issue as well? If it looks like I'm not the only one I may sacrifice the sound for something that lasts a little longer...


----------



## danspy

bhazard said:


> The ZST isn't necessarily bright with treble, but it does sound slightly artificial up there. Slight EQ takes care of it.
> 
> They are very impressive for $12. I stayed up an extra hour the other night listening to some instrumentals and really got into it. Easily $60+ material.
> 
> For $90 and 5 drivers, that flagship KZ will be a monster if it is tuned well with a good build quality. It is in line with what I would expect the price to be (remember, 10 drivers). Hope it is universal MMCX or 2-pin.


 
 The ZST is a Diva.
  
 My Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD with 40 Ohm output Impedance, is not able to drive them properly.


----------



## i586

What would be best KZs for metal with vocals (Njghtwish, Epica)? Now I'm using new Xiaomi hybrids with triple drivers and I really like vocals, they're clear. But soundstage is kinda shallow (compared to Meelec M11) and "heavy guitar music" is just muddy mess.. Which KZ model suit best for this genre?


----------



## Shawn71

loomisjohnson said:


> i actually had the hyundai luxury car, the genesis--pretty good car, with an awesome lexicon stereo, but it wasn't lexus quality; it was just a little less polished/perfect. which, i realize, has no bearing whatsoever to kz headphones, but i do feel that it's usually a good idea to stick to what you do best. we'll see soon enough how kz does with their totl.




I had beemer 528i and as everyone knows what these mid size sedan is and it has a crap am/fm radio with cassette but glows bloody red so sexy driving in the night,thats all .nothing much even on the sound front. but they are known for german engineering and its price tag. 

may be hyundai has to still learn from their japanese brothers like toyota,nissan etc.....like they shd approach same business model to have a lux brand, like what is lexus for toyota,Acura for honda and Infiniti for Nissan etc.....

I agree with the part sticking to best what someone do, but nothing wrong in trying something different too,imo......

we now have fiio from china as an established audio eqmt mfr but what if they stuck to just giving us a small and mid sized headphone amp and dacs just like when they started,as they were good at,then there wldnt be any X series daps evovled. And another brand from western is klipsch to quote,they were pioneers in horn tweeters and such but their foray into IEM realm also tasted success,S4 model is a proof(yeah their single ba x10too).just sayin....


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I feel like I'm always behind the curve with this thread.  My ZS3s FINALLY came in from the 11/11 gearbest sale.
  

  
 They're good.  Real good.  Best IEM I own so far good(although all of mine are also budget chi-fi).  Slightly bassy, but well controlled.  Mids aren't as recessed as the ED9.  Highs are pulled down a little bit.  Everything's just so enjoyable and smooth.
  
 The cable was pretty damn hard to insert into the IEMs, but I got them in.  Letter-side facing outwards, of course.
  
 -------------------
  
 I would love to join you guys with the ZST bandwagon(esp. with the colorful + silver cable.  mmm, looks sooo good).  But I need to go through some of my other earbuds first before I purchase more.  I shall be happily lurking in this thread.


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> My 11/11 order finally came.  Just over 2 months for shipping LMAO.
> 
> Potato pic.  Better/more and impressions coming soon.


 Nice


----------



## Podster

bwas1000 said:


> Was hesitant for the ED9s,because the EDSE are the perfect size for me, and the ED9 appear larger. The others are over the ESR style, and I've never worn any like that before




The ED9 casing/shell is no larger than edse but they are heavier due to the steel build vs. aluminum IMO they are more versatile with the gold and bronze filters but because of weight they once again IMO are more suited for over ear which I really prefer with all iem's. 
Love those shiney ZS3's, had to order a pair to go with my matt finish since I was accidentally sent two of the silver cables when I ordered for my Matt's


----------



## tobar

What comply "style" foam tip for zs3 and zst? T200 or t400? I measured earphones plug diameter that could be 5mm. T200 are for max 4.9mm, t400 for earphones from 5 up to 6.3mm. Have you ever tested them and know what I have to buy?


----------



## Montyburns

tobar said:


> What comply "style" foam tip for zs3 and zst? T200 or t400? I measured earphones plug diameter that could be 5mm. T200 are for max 4.9mm, t400 for earphones from 5 up to 6.3mm. Have you ever tested them and know what I have to buy?


I use the t400 - a little rubbing alcohol and the tips go on smooth.


----------



## BWAS1000

So KZs don't use MMCX, they use the 2 pin right? Are there any 2 pin bluetooth cables?


----------



## Mus1c

bwas1000 said:


> So KZs don't use MMCX, they use the 2 pin right? Are there any 2 pin bluetooth cables?


 Im not sure maybe not


----------



## BWAS1000

A friend of mine (same one who got the EDSE) wants to get the ED10. How do they compare to the ED9


----------



## Shawn71

​


bwas1000 said:


> A friend of mine (same one who got the EDSE) wants to get the ED10. How do they compare to the ED9




Sound preference / genres most listen to?.......


----------



## BWAS1000

shawn71 said:


> ​Sound preference / genres most listen to?.......


Ignore the pop, its an Electro sound Google decided to label as pop.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Since work has been slow today, I took a moment to sit and listen to the new FiiO F1 and see how it compared to the Piston 3 and some of KZ's offerings which included the HDS3.
  
 I have to say, the HDS3 is growing on me. Sitting and listening to some of my favorite EDM mixes from SubSIL3NT Podcast. Nice punchy bass, good treble presence, solid mid-range with decent detail. I still find them a bit unrefined and grainy, but they're fun. Well worth the cost, even if there are better KZ's out there. Build quality is nice, they're lightweight and comfortable, and the cable is fantastic. I always enjoy inline mics at the y-split so that's a huge plus for me. Maybe I was a bit hard on these little guys in the past.
  
​


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> Since work has been slow today, I took a moment to sit and listen to the new FiiO F1 and see how it compared to the Piston 3 and some of KZ's offerings which included the HDS3.
> 
> I have to say, the HDS3 is growing on me. Sitting and listening to some of my favorite EDM mixes from SubSIL3NT Podcast. Nice punchy bass, good treble presence, solid mid-range with decent detail. I still find them a bit unrefined and grainy, but they're fun. Well worth the cost, even if there are better KZ's out there. Build quality is nice, they're lightweight and comfortable, and the cable is fantastic. I always enjoy inline mics at the y-split so that's a huge plus for me. Maybe I was a bit hard on these little guys in the past.
> 
> ​


 
 good to see you coming around on these scrambler--i've always like these irrationally. i used to own the yamaha eph100, which cost me north of a hundo . the yamaha were perfectly fine, and very audiophile and such, but i never felt compelled to actually put 'em on. the hds3, otoh, are addictive--i listen to 'em as much as  any of the (too many) iems i own. which isn't to say they're the $6 holy grail, but they're damn fun. which should matter.


----------



## Mus1c

bwas1000 said:


> Ignore the pop, its an Electro sound Google decided to label as pop.


 Get the Zs3 and your life will be done.


----------



## Mus1c

One question, is the moxpad X3 is any good? Just curious.


----------



## Mus1c

Someone please Admit that kzs3 is better than kz ate and zst cuz i want to buy it.


----------



## Kerkyboi

bwas1000 said:


> So KZs don't use MMCX, they use the 2 pin right? Are there any 2 pin bluetooth cables?


Saw someone teasing KZ bluetooth cables plugged on to a ZST and ZS3 over at filipino audiophile community.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> Someone please Admit that kzs3 is better than kz ate and zst cuz i want to buy it.


 
 Just get them. Like the other two, they're worth owning.


----------



## gobin

mus1c said:


> Someone please Admit that kzs3 is better than kz ate and zst cuz i want to buy it.



I hate to admit it, but I kinda regret spending $20 on the Tennmak Pro after I got the ZS3 as it can do 90% as good at half the price.


----------



## BWAS1000

mus1c said:


> Get the Zs3 and your life will be done.




We're gonna get the ED10s soon. 
He wanted me to get 2 ATEs when I get money on my PayPal, but I'll get the ZS3 instead now.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

mus1c said:


> Someone please Admit that kzs3 is better than kz ate and zst cuz i want to buy it.


 
 ZS3 >>> ATR for me.  Better clarity, better mids, bass is controlled better and has more subbass than the ATR imo.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> good to see you coming around on these scrambler--i've always like these irrationally. i used to own the yamaha eph100, which cost me north of a hundo . the yamaha were perfectly fine, and very audiophile and such, but i never felt compelled to actually put 'em on. the hds3, otoh, are addictive--i listen to 'em as much as  any of the (too many) iems i own. which isn't to say they're the $6 holy grail, but they're damn fun. which should matter.


 
  
 Yeah, I don't know why I'm only starting to like them now. Not like they're new to me or anything. I've listened to them plenty in the past. For whatever, they were ticking the right boxes today


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> ZS3 >>> ATR for me.  Better clarity, better mids, bass is controlled better and has more subbass than the ATR imo.


coming from zs3 owner, i trust you and i will get the zs3.


----------



## BWAS1000

Isn't that wonderful. I didn't get my refund for the missing EDR2 and the one I did get broke. $16 spent on a lesson I guess. Don't buy IEMs on eBay.


----------



## B9Scrambler

That sucks man


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> That sucks man




Amazon was fine for the EDSE, so I have no doubt they'll deliver (literally and metaphorically) for the ED10

I just hope GearBest gets the ZS3 to me


----------



## Mus1c

bwas1000 said:


> Isn't that wonderful. I didn't get my refund for the missing EDR2 and the one I did get broke. $16 spent on a lesson I guess. Don't buy IEMs on eBay.


 Why didn't you buy it at aliexpress or gearbest there is the official store for kz iem.


----------



## BWAS1000

mus1c said:


> Why didn't you buy it at aliexpress or gearbest there is the official store for kz iem.




Had $25 off on eBay. I wanted the refund to try the ATE or ATR. To be honest its actually not of any detriment to me, besides the principle of the thing


----------



## Mus1c

bwas1000 said:


> Had $25 off on eBay. I wanted the refund to try the ATE or ATR. To be honest its actually not of any detriment to me, besides the principle of the thing


 Next time dont buy kz off ebay there's a lot of scammer or they send you fake item nowadays, buy kz at gearbest or ali! Thier are legit seller.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I don't think KZ has any fakes though.
  
 I buy all my KZs off gearbest because they seem to always have the cheapest price.  Slow shipping (1-2months), but everything I've ordered has arrived.


----------



## Podster

I generally stay with the same sellers I've been buying KZ's from for years on AliEx

I've had good luck with both Gearbest and Penon purchases too. 

I like B9 love KZ's and I've really never had a bad sounding pair especially for the price, maybe a small QC issue now and then but overall IMO KZ offer a nice product for the price


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> I don't think KZ has any fakes though.
> 
> I buy all my KZs off gearbest because they seem to always have the cheapest price.  Slow shipping (1-2months), but everything I've ordered has arrived.


 Generally if you buy other that kz iem such as sennheiser(popular) or other popular brand name,is a good chance that you got fake one. So if you want to save the money stay with alie or gearbest to buy stuff. 

No if got it late thats good it will still arrive because it legit market to buy kz.(Late)because you order from international market like ali and the other reason your stay far from the country that sells kz or probably delay becasue everybody is buying kz and have to wait from other country. For me buying is like charm i have to wait one 9 days till it arrive cuz im live not that far from china(Malaysia) that might be the prob if got it late. 



MuS1c


----------



## Shawn71

@bwas1000 & @mus1c :=>just one word "zs3"!!!


----------



## Mus1c

shawn71 said:


> @bwas1000 & @mus1c :=>just one word "zs3"!!!


----------



## kaiteck

Found a japanese review of kx ate and ate s http://iphone-media.net/post-2910/

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk


----------



## thebluebulk

OK sat down and did a little better comparison between the ED12 and  ZS3. I like the response curve of the ED12. To my ears it seems to be a little flatter but can't even compete when it comes to soundstage. The bass heavy ZS3's have a great soundstage but the bass while clean is just too much and the treble seems to roll off a little too soon for my liking. does anyone agree? I want to love the ZS3's as much as everyone else does but I just don't know. Also the ZS3's don't fit my ears well and get uncomfortable after about half an hour where the ED12's don't. I have the ATR's and ZST's coming in the mail. CANT WAIT!


----------



## Mus1c

thebluebulk said:


> OK sat down and did a little better comparison between the ED12 and  ZS3. I like the response curve of the ED12. To my ears it seems to be a little flatter but can't even compete when it comes to soundstage. The bass heavy ZS3's have a great soundstage but the bass while clean is just too much and the treble seems to roll off a little too soon for my liking. does anyone agree? I want to love the ZS3's as much as everyone else does but I just don't know. Also the ZS3's don't fit my ears well and get uncomfortable after about half an hour where the ED12's don't. I have the ATR's and ZST's coming in the mail. CANT WAIT!


 Make sure that you post the picture and make a impresions about atr and zst when its arrive.


----------



## brianjai

I'm currently using ATR and I quite like it's balanced sound,but for me the soundstage is not very wide and it also a bit muffled on the mid.
Are there any other KZ model fulfull my requirement.
Also,are there any earphones better than all of the KZ's earphones with balanced signature?


----------



## Keller1

brianjai said:


> I'm currently using ATR and I quite like it's balanced sound,but for me the soundstage is not very wide and it also a bit muffled on the mid.
> Are there any other KZ model fulfull my requirement.
> Also,are there any earphones better than all of the KZ's earphones with balanced signature?


 

 You want the ZST.

 And i cant answer your second question, except to say the ZSR when it comes out.


----------



## Dagobert

bwas1000 said:


> Isn't that wonderful. I didn't get my refund for the missing EDR2 and the one I did get broke. $16 spent on a lesson I guess. Don't buy IEMs on eBay.



Ahw men,thats A shame.Isnt Aliexpress A option for you?


----------



## Mus1c

brianjai said:


> I'm currently using ATR and I quite like it's balanced sound,but for me the soundstage is not very wide and it also a bit muffled on the mid.
> Are there any other KZ model fulfull my requirement.
> Also,are there any earphones better than all of the KZ's earphones with balanced signature?


 For wide ass soundstage you will need the zs3 for sure.


----------



## Modulus

Hi all. How would the ZST compare to an earphone like the hifiman re 400? Has anyone done a comparison?


----------



## irsan

Hi guys, i love zs3 smooth sound but i dont like the over ear model, any suggestion another kz iem that not over ear but have a smooth sounding like zs3? Thanks


----------



## Mus1c

irsan said:


> Hi guys, i love zs3 smooth sound but i dont like the over ear model, any suggestion another kz iem that not over ear but have a smooth sounding like zs3? Thanks


 no rly sound just like zs3 but try the ed9,edr2 edse or ed3 if you don't want the over ear style.


----------



## To.M

..or not from KZ but very good, URBANFUN.


----------



## Ruben123

to.m said:


> ..or not from KZ but very good, URBANFUN.




Add the Vivo and Monoprice to the list and you got my favourite budget in ears! All balanced and natural


----------



## BWAS1000

mus1c said:


> Next time dont buy kz off ebay there's a lot of scammer or they send you fake item nowadays, buy kz at gearbest or ali! Thier are legit seller.




Yup, I'll stick to them from now


sometechnoob said:


> I don't think KZ has any fakes though.
> 
> I buy all my KZs off gearbest because they seem to always have the cheapest price.  Slow shipping (1-2months), but everything I've ordered has arrived.



If they do have fakes, they probably use the same drivers and just have awful QC.



dagobert said:


> Ahw men,thats A shame.Isnt Aliexpress A option for you?




It is. Depends on what IEM I want thought. My next purchase is the ED10 off Amazon. After that, I'm gonna get the ZS3 off gearbest.

Buying from this seller on Amazon.
Easy Kz Ed10 3.5mm Stereo Sport Running In-ear Headphones with Remote and Mic One-button Control (With Microphone) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0186VB9TK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_UP3EybV04Q1BX

My ED Special Editions were from Amazon. Seller was KZ. Normally AlwaySincere sells KZs on amazon, but it seems this is a different seller, and its prime fulfilled, so I think the risk of a fake is low to nonexistent


----------



## Castomere

What is the truth about KZ? Is it really manufactured by their own factory or is this just a rebranded product?


----------



## Vidal

castomere said:


> What is the truth about KZ? Is it really manufactured by their own factory or is this just a rebranded product?


 
  
 Never seen KZ earphones (not QKZ) under any other brand name.


----------



## Saoshyant

vidal said:


> Never seen KZ earphones (not QKZ) under any other brand name.




Easy, Beteran, Dreaman, Ounice, AutumnFall, Rumas, Bbeart, Granvela, Onemores... All brand names attached to KZ found within 5 minutes on Amazon.


----------



## flamesofarctica

saoshyant said:


> Easy, Beteran, Dreaman, Ounice, AutumnFall, Rumas, Bbeart, Granvela, Onemores... All brand names attached to KZ found within 5 minutes on Amazon.




The likes of 'Granvela' make laugh.

They're clearly just a seller and stick it in their own box.

You can see Rock Zircons, VJJB, Auglamour, KZ etc, the branding on the earphone is unchanged.

Sometimes they even leave the other brand name in the title on Amazon as well, eg the Granvela MRice E100.

So it's not really a rebrand it's a...not sure really... a sales agent and reboxing service? :-D


----------



## Saoshyant

I wouldn't even begin to know what to call them, but it could be seen as such.


----------



## Vidal

saoshyant said:


> Easy, Beteran, Dreaman, Ounice, AutumnFall, Rumas, Bbeart, Granvela, Onemores... All brand names attached to KZ found within 5 minutes on Amazon.


 
  
 As stated they're just importers, try finding any of them on Ali, Taobao or similar.
  
 In the UK VJJB were sold as APIE, in the box they were still VJJBs. Typically it's done to stop people price matching sometimes they rebox to reduce storage costs in warehouse like Amazon's


----------



## BWAS1000

vidal said:


> As stated they're just importers, try finding any of them on Ali, Taobao or similar.
> 
> In the UK VJJB were sold as APIE, in the box they were still VJJBs. Typically it's done to stop people price matching sometimes they rebox to reduce storage costs in warehouse like Amazon's




I do hope the ED10s come in the guitar pick style case I've seen them advertised with.


----------



## waynes world

bwas1000 said:


> I just hope GearBest gets the ZS3 to me


 
  
 I got my ED9's from them. And now just ordered the ZS3 from them


----------



## bayramu

I'm considering buying Zst's, but i've read some people complaining about the isolation. Do you have any problem in daily use (outside vs.) with isolation or sound leakage when using ZST's?
  
 I currently use Sony XB90EX, i really like them but, i want to hear the sounds that i don't hear(upper freq.) with the sense of bass, do you think ZST can satisfy me, or is it not fair to compare it with XB90EX?


----------



## fredhubbard2

bayramu said:


> I'm considering buying Zst's, but i've read some people complaining about the isolation. Do you have any problem in daily use (outside vs.) with isolation or sound leakage when using ZST's?
> 
> I currently use Sony XB90EX, i really like them but, i want to hear the sounds that i don't hear(upper freq.) with the sense of bass, do you think ZST can satisfy me, or is it not fair to compare it with XB90EX?


 
  
 maybe its cos i have big ears, i wear mine down with large spiral dots tips and they are the most comfortable and isolating IEM i have. very quiet microphonics too. i walk along busy roads on my commute to and from work and cant hear a thing lol.


----------



## eyepauls

My ZST's arrived friday, ive spent about 10 hours all up using them at home + on the commute today - didnt have any issues with isolation and I used the tips that came with it.
  
 Really impressed with these, I havnt bought a pair this cheap before and therefore went in with zero expectations, fun little headphones! I wear them over the ear and found them to be a better fit without memory wire/ear hook then the Havi B3's..


----------



## Robix95

Hi guys, I'm buying from Gearbest a pair of Xiaomi hrybrid pro hd and I'm considering buying a pair of kz earphones, can you suggest me a good pair under 15-20$ maybe with a different sound shape from the xiaomi?
 I've considered to buy the Zs3 buy first I want your opinion


----------



## killerbond

robix95 said:


> Hi guys, I'm buying from Gearbest a pair of Xiaomi hrybrid pro hd and I'm considering buying a pair of kz earphones, can you suggest me a good pair under 15-20$ maybe with a different sound shape from the xiaomi?
> I've considered to buy the Zs3 buy first I want your opinion


 
 try Zs1 or Zs3 then


----------



## Mus1c

castomere said:


> What is the truth about KZ? Is it really manufactured by their own factory or is this just a rebranded product?


 Yes Kz is manufactured by thier own company.but if you buy kz on amazon theres a good chance you will see rebranding by the seller.


----------



## Mus1c

robix95 said:


> Hi guys, I'm buying from Gearbest a pair of Xiaomi hrybrid pro hd and I'm considering buying a pair of kz earphones, can you suggest me a good pair under 15-20$ maybe with a different sound shape from the xiaomi?
> I've considered to buy the Zs3 buy first I want your opinion


 a question,what sound signature you like? and wat type of genre do you listen most frequently?.


----------



## Kerkyboi

@BWAS1000
 Found this post from a member of an audiophile group from the PH. He was teasing this cables to have APTX and approx 5 hours battery life.
  


_Credits to photo owner._
  
  
 Anybody else seen this KZ wireless cable elsewhere?


----------



## B9Scrambler

kerkyboi said:


> @BWAS1000
> Found this post from a member of an audiophile group from the PH. He was teasing this cables to have APTX and approx 5 hours battery life.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is awesome! Good find. I haven't seen that anywhere but I'm 100% on board. Looks fantastic.


----------



## Keller1

they should've gone for the pendant design Fiio Wanted to make IMO but still good on them for making this.


----------



## Mus1c

kerkyboi said:


> @BWAS1000
> 
> Found this post from a member of an audiophile group from the PH. He was teasing this cables to have APTX and approx 5 hours battery life.
> 
> ...


 Where can i find these thing i want it now!!!


----------



## KcLKcL

Which one is the best Micro Driver IEM from KZ? Is it the HDS3?

While ZS3 sounds fabulous, it hurts my ear after a while. I need something more comfortable to wear.


----------



## Mus1c

kclkcl said:


> Which one is the best Micro Driver IEM from KZ? Is it the HDS3?
> 
> While ZS3 sounds fabulous, it hurts my ear after a while. I need something more comfortable to wear.


 you might want to try like ed3acme or edse


----------



## KcLKcL

mus1c said:


> you might want to try like ed3acme or edse




Thanks for the recommendation, will try the ED3M aka The Acme. The local store doesn't sell the EDSE so I hope it's good!


----------



## Kerkyboi

b9scrambler said:


> That is awesome! Good find. I haven't seen that anywhere but I'm 100% on board. Looks fantastic.



I wish the APTX and 5 hours battery is true. I've checked online but found none of the same cable anywhere.




mus1c said:


> Where can i find these thing i want it now!!!



I hope I can answer you but I am also on the lookout. His post says "stocks" will arrive early february so I guess this needs some insider check. *ahem* ricemanhk


----------



## Robix95

I don't know what signature type it's the best for me.
 I listen a lot to Electronic music (Bjork, The XX, Massive Attack) and also some pop and ambient music.
 If it can help I love the signature of my old JVC HA-S400.


----------



## BWAS1000

kerkyboi said:


> @BWAS1000
> 
> Found this post from a member of an audiophile group from the PH. He was teasing this cables to have APTX and approx 5 hours battery life.
> 
> ...




My LeEco Le2 has no headphone jack, and while I do have an adapter, and a bluetooth receiver, the most seamless experience for me is using bluetooth IEMS. Since I like Kz, this can be very helpful


----------



## hoerlurar

mus1c said:


> kclkcl said:
> 
> 
> > Which one is the best Micro Driver IEM from KZ? Is it the HDS3?
> ...


 
 I don't think my ED3c are comfortable. But i haven't really listened much to them since i didn't like the sound.
  
 The HDS1 is better than HDS3 to me, the HDS3 is lacking in clarity and highs compared to HDS1.
 There are some positive reviews for HDS3 though, so you might want to try them anyway, since they cost $5 or so at gearbest...
 I'm not sure where to find the best price from a reliable seller for the HDS1 now since gearbest don't have them anymore/right now.
  
 you might want to check out joyroom e107 as well, i've read that they are small and comfortable


----------



## To.M

Yep, E107 are tiny, without tips, they would fall into my ears


----------



## BWAS1000

Group buy for the ED10 and ZS3 confirmed.

ED10 buy is waiting on the last guy to decide what he wants. We'll be grabbing 3 ED10s if he decides against, and 4 if he decides for

ZS3 buy is waiting on me to get paid my PayPal funds.

Its funny. I found the EDSE on the portable Budget fi thread, and after not being able to buy the OnePlus Bullets v2, I ended up getting 2 EDSEs instead (Order was 2 bullets, couldn't get those). That lead to all of this xD

After the ZS3, i'm trying out a Hybrid with the ZST.


----------



## B9Scrambler

hoerlurar said:


> I don't think my ED3c are comfortable. But i haven't really listened much to them since i didn't like the sound.
> 
> The HDS1 is better than HDS3 to me, the HDS3 is lacking in clarity and highs compared to HDS1.
> There are some positive reviews for HDS3 though, so you might want to try them anyway, since they cost $5 or so at gearbest...
> ...


 
  
 HDS1 is a good option.
  
@KcLKcL* *None of the ED3 variants are micro-drivers so they don't really fit the request. The only micro-drivers KZ currently makes are the HDS1/2/3. The rest are all 7mm and up or pair a micro 6mm with a larger driver (ZS1/2 and DT5 for example). 
  
 My micro-driver thread has a bunch of inexpensive options listed and could be helpful; http://www.head-fi.org/t/817426/micro-driver-madness-work-in-progress. I'd recommend the VJJB K2S. Highly overlooked little earphone around here imo.
  
 Obviously those impressions are all from one person (me), so look around for more reviews/impressions if any of them are of interest. Will be updating with the E107, Remax 565i and some others when they eventually make their way to Canada.


----------



## BWAS1000

Something EDSE tier or better on Gearbest around the $5 range. I'll have to stuff another IEM into my order.

Scratch this, I wanted to give a gift, but I decided to just grab an extra ED10 in my group buy.


----------



## KcLKcL

b9scrambler said:


> HDS1 is a good option.
> 
> @KcLKcL
> * *None of the ED3 variants are micro-drivers so they don't really fit the request. The only micro-drivers KZ currently makes are the HDS1/2/3. The rest are all 7mm and up or pair a micro 6mm with a larger driver (ZS1/2 and DT5 for example).
> ...




Based on your review.. I guess the HDS1 sounds more like ATR/ATE and HDS3 sounds more like ZS3?

I didn't like the Brainwavz Omega, your review is pretty much correct, it lacks a wow factor to me, a V shaped soundsig but for me it lacks the energy. Not analytical enough yet not fun enough.

Would you think HDS1 would be better than Brainwavz Omega? I sold my Omega already.

Maybe let's say I don't really need a micro driver, all I need is a good sound and comfort. How good is the ED3c in those aspect, actually?


----------



## B9Scrambler

kclkcl said:


> Based on your review.. I guess the HDS1 sounds more like ATR/ATE and HDS3 sounds more like ZS3?
> 
> I didn't like the Brainwavz Omega, your review is pretty much correct, it lacks a wow factor to me, a V shaped soundsig but for me it lacks the energy. Not analytical enough yet not fun enough.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the HDS1's general tone is more in line with the ATE/ATR/ZS3 but more balanced/neutral and less colored. The HDS3 is more v-shaped like most of the ED series stuff but not quite to the same extent.
  
 I would take the HDS1 over the Omega any day. The Omega was okay but it was lacking that special something.
  
 I found the ED3c very comfortable. It's quite light compared to most of KZ's older stuff; aluminum housing and whatnot. I found the long somewhat slender nozzle kinda awkward for tip rolling though. The RX might be the better pick actually; link. Similar sound but with a bit more treble energy for the "wow factor". Nozzle is a traditional shape/size and I find the fit more secure. Better cable too. It's an oldie but a goodie. Kinda underrated/underappreciated imo.
  
​


----------



## zabunny94

kclkcl said:


> Based on your review.. I guess the HDS1 sounds more like ATR/ATE and HDS3 sounds more like ZS3?
> 
> I didn't like the Brainwavz Omega, your review is pretty much correct, it lacks a wow factor to me, a V shaped soundsig but for me it lacks the energy. Not analytical enough yet not fun enough.
> 
> ...




I had the hds1, i can say its sounds similar with ATE, except the bass in ATE has much more presence and boomier. The mids and highs are similar

Ed3m is one of the least comfortable KZ I've tried, the housing feels big and bulky, the nozzles too long and its really hard to keep it in my ear, if it weren't for the good sound it has(mild v shape, or u-shape idk about the terminology. Very fun sound), i would give it away to someone already.


----------



## Mus1c

robix95 said:


> I don't know what signature type it's the best for me.
> I listen a lot to Electronic music (Bjork, The XX, Massive Attack) and also some pop and ambient music.
> If it can help I love the signature of my old JVC HA-S400.


i mean by the genre you listened to, you should buy zs3 because zs3 has wide soundstage and bass heavy iem.


----------



## Mus1c

hoerlurar said:


> I don't think my ED3c are comfortable. But i haven't really listened much to them since i didn't like the sound.
> 
> The HDS1 is better than HDS3 to me, the HDS3 is lacking in clarity and highs compared to HDS1.
> There are some positive reviews for HDS3 though, so you might want to try them anyway, since they cost $5 or so at gearbest...
> ...


my bad for recommendation of ed3acme i don't have the iem so can't listen want the sound should like.


----------



## mindy123

https://www.audiophileon.com/news/7-awesome-last-minute-christmas-gifts-for-music-lovers
  
 Just seen this, the ZST considered the best budget IEMs around at the moment. I am seeing on here the ZS3 recommended over it for bass/electronic music so am wondering how much worse is the ZST in this regard?


----------



## dondonut

The ZST is amazing. Tho in some recordings the highs can be somewhat harsh (some sharp s sound really sharp), overall I prefer them over the ATR I think. Highs are more present which makes the sound more complete, the atr sounded somewhat muffled after using the ZST for a while. 

While the soundsignature of the ATR is less fatiguing, so easier for long sessions, the ZST are ergonomically better for me. 

Overall I prefer the zst.. But I also like the ATR a lot.. so why not get both for the dirt cheap price they go for


----------



## dondonut

mindy123 said:


> I am seeing on here the ZS3 recommended over it for bass/electronic music so am wondering how much worse is the ZST in this regard?




I'm in no way an expert. That being said, I'd say the highs are just a tad too present and the bass just slightly less so. For edm and hip-hop I think focus on lows is more important, it's the backbone of the genre I guess. high hats and claps can sound quite sharp if treble is too present. 

They say the zs3 has a signature more like the ATR. Better bass and less focus on the highs. The zst are more of an all-rounder I think. Do take into consideration the zst's are, for me, ergonomically better than the ATR. Don't have the zs3 so couldn't say about those!


----------



## Griffith

mindy123 said:


> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/7-awesome-last-minute-christmas-gifts-for-music-lovers
> 
> Just seen this, the ZST considered the best budget IEMs around at the moment. I am seeing on here the ZS3 recommended over it for bass/electronic music so am wondering how much worse is the ZST in this regard?


 
  
 The ZST, the ATE and the ZS3 have all been well regarded in that blog and all of them are excellent earphones for different reasons.
  
 The ZS3 has a nice warm V-shaped signature, good build quality and features at a very low price. Very easy to recommend for people that like bassy/electronic music.
  
 The ZST has a W-shaped signature sound very forward and fun sounding while maintaining a surprisingly decent soundstage. They sound and look like earphones that are worth many times their cost.
  
 The ATE are the most neutral of the bunch and have as good or slightly better soundstage than the ZST. They do sound a bit dry with some music, but overall I found them very comfortable and enjoyable and they sit as one of my favorites.
  
 Any of those three are excellent earphones, particularly for their price but they all sound very different from each other and all of them have different shapes, features and characteristics. None of them are objectively worse.


----------



## Kerkyboi

bwas1000 said:


> My LeEco Le2 has no headphone jack, and while I do have an adapter, and a bluetooth receiver, the most seamless experience for me is using bluetooth IEMS. Since I like Kz, this can be very helpful



Glad to be of help, now lets all hunt for this cables. Can't seem to find them anywhere.




griffith said:


> The ZST, the ATE and the ZS3 have all been well regarded in that blog and all of them are excellent earphones for different reasons.
> 
> The ZS3 has a nice warm V-shaped signature, good build quality and features at a very low price. Very easy to recommend for people that like bassy/electronic music.
> 
> ...



I 100% agree. My general conclusion for my 3 KZ pairs is ZST for my acoustic, live, instrumental music needs, ZS3 for my hiphop, RnB, EDM tracks, and lastly ATR as my all rounder since they quite sit in between the 2 ZS* models and quite nice for latest pop music. End of debate for me.


----------



## loomisjohnson

kclkcl said:


> Based on your review.. I guess the HDS1 sounds more like ATR/ATE and HDS3 sounds more like ZS3?
> 
> I didn't like the Brainwavz Omega, your review is pretty much correct, it lacks a wow factor to me, a V shaped soundsig but for me it lacks the energy. Not analytical enough yet not fun enough.
> 
> ...


 

 hds3 sounds nothing like the zs3--the hds3 is much brighter and treble-forward, with a narrower stage and a cirsper note presentation. zs3 is warmer, with more more bass emphasis, bigger sounding and has less treble extension/detail. everyone should own both.


----------



## BWAS1000

kerkyboi said:


> Glad to be of help, now lets all hunt for this cables. Can't seem to find them anywhere.
> I 100% agree. My general conclusion for my 3 KZ pairs is ZST for my acoustic, live, instrumental music needs, ZS3 for my hiphop, RnB, EDM tracks, and lastly ATR as my all rounder since they quite sit in between the 2 ZS* models and quite nice for latest pop music. End of debate for me.




I searched for 2 pin Bluetooth IEM cable, and nothing. MMCX is easy to find (Albeit more expensive than the IEM itself, lol) but nothing. I COULD use my bluetooth receiver, or my M9 Bluetooth, but really, I like KZs more than the M9.


----------



## Podster

Woot Woot, got my replacement ZN1 Mini's in today (15 year old killed my last pair)! Got the mic version this time and you don't get the garden hose with the mic version but they still have that BOOM bass attack


----------



## BWAS1000

Had some guys listen to the ED Special Edition Today. They guessed a price of $250-$300TTD.

That equated to $36-$41 USD


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> HDS1 is a good option.
> 
> @KcLKcL* *None of the ED3 variants are micro-drivers so they don't really fit the request. The only micro-drivers KZ currently makes are the HDS1/2/3. The rest are all 7mm and up or pair a micro 6mm with a larger driver (ZS1/2 and DT5 for example).
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with B9 on the HDS1 alternative


----------



## B9Scrambler

Given my affinity towards the KZ brand I wrote up a little four part article for my blog, The Contraptionist. Thought some of you here might find it interesting and hopefully helpful too. Obviously everything in there concerning sound is my opinion and based on my personal experiences, so take it for what it is please.
  
*Knowledge Zenith: A great place to begin your audiophile journey*​  
Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4​  ​ ​     ​​     ​​


----------



## khighly

The ZST colorful is tuned slightly differently than the ZST. ZST Colorful has more low extension that is still very clean and textured, while raising the mids slightly and pulling the high sibilance back slightly. Very beautiful sound with a giant soundstage. They make you smile. Well impressed.

 If you have them, give them a really amazing seal, and give a good listen to Miles Davis - So What, all the way through, using the spotify 320k version. Tell me these sound like they aren't IEM's that cost hundreds of dollars. The detail is so crisp, the accuracy of every little thing someone on stage does, and then each instrument plays to each corner of you and you can pick each instrument out in near 3D space. It's wild. I question reality and get scared sometimes because these are so good. Jimi Hendrix - Little Wing Live at Winterland. Wow. These are $18 IEM's.

*In Order:*
 ZST Colorful (Comfortable)
 Tennmak Pro (Comfortable)
 ZST (Comfortable)
 Tennmak Piano
 ATE
 ATR
 SHE3590 (Comfortable)
 ED12

 I have a larger ear canal and use the largest KZ starline tip on all of these.

 1. This is only my opinion.
 2. I am biased, like everyone else.
 3. I have not heard everything in the world.


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> Given my affinity towards the KZ brand I wrote up a little four part article for my blog, The Contraptionist. Thought some of you here might find it interesting and hopefully helpful too. Obviously everything in there concerning sound is my opinion and based on my personal experiences, so take it for what it is please.
> 
> *Knowledge Zenith: A great place to begin your audiophile journey*​
> Part 1[COLOR=6A6A6A] / [/COLOR]Part 2[COLOR=6A6A6A] / [/COLOR]Part 3[COLOR=6A6A6A] / [/COLOR]Part 4​
> ...




After my EDR2 broke from removing tips, I'm a bit ehhhhhh on them. And my pair sounded nearly identical to the EDSE


----------



## irsan

anyone know comply foam size for kz zst? Thanks


----------



## svil3

irsan said:


> anyone know comply foam size for kz zst? Thanks


 
 T-200 series fits perfectly in the zst and basically all the KZ IEMs


----------



## B9Scrambler

bwas1000 said:


> After my EDR2 broke from removing tips, I'm a bit ehhhhhh on them. And my pair sounded nearly identical to the EDSE


 
  
 I can see why you would feel "ehhhhhh" on them after that. I was the same with the Micro Ring as ootb one housing wasn't glued at all. Glued it back together and the rest is history. The hugely varied opinions regarding sound are exactly why I didn't add them to the recommended list. If they all sounded like my pair, different story.


----------



## kokakolia

Hi, 

I received the Kz ED9 and I don't like them. 

They have satisfactory comfort, soundstage, bass, vocals etc...

BUT there is one fatal flaw: shrill treble. 

That treble tires me. 

I have KZ ED7s on the way. I can't find reviews anywhere. Do they share the same awful treble with the ED9s? 

Personally, I prefer darker sounding headphones and I have a knee-jerk reaction to shrill treble. What would be the best Kz earphone for me?


----------



## mindy123

b9scrambler said:


> Given my affinity towards the KZ brand I wrote up a little four part article for my blog, The Contraptionist. Thought some of you here might find it interesting and hopefully helpful too. Obviously everything in there concerning sound is my opinion and based on my personal experiences, so take it for what it is please.
> 
> *Knowledge Zenith: A great place to begin your audiophile journey*​
> Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4​  ​ ​     ​​     ​​


 
  
 Great stuff - pulling the trigger on a ZST now, enough messing about! If the bass isn't enough for my electronic tastes I can get a ZS3 later.


khighly said:


> The ZST colorful is tuned slightly differently than the ZST. ZST Colorful has more low extension that is still very clean and textured, while raising the mids slightly and pulling the high sibilance back slightly. Very beautiful sound with a giant soundstage. They make you smile. Well impressed.
> 
> If you have them, give them a really amazing seal, and give a good listen to Miles Davis - So What, all the way through, using the spotify 320k version. Tell me these sound like they aren't IEM's that cost hundreds of dollars. The detail is so crisp, the accuracy of every little thing someone on stage does, and then each instrument plays to each corner of you and you can pick each instrument out in near 3D space. It's wild. I question reality and get scared sometimes because these are so good. Jimi Hendrix - Little Wing Live at Winterland. Wow. These are $18 IEM's.
> 
> ...


 
 Had not heard of the ZST colorful...they sound ideal for me. 
  
 Is this them? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Earphones-Ollivan-Isolating-Earphone-Headphone/dp/B01MRZNYM9 
  
 Hope so as that looks my best bet to purchase in the UK


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> Hi,
> 
> I received the Kz ED9 and I don't like them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Treble was my issue with the ED9 too, but with a different quality; splashiness.
  
 From what I recall reading earlier in the thread the ED7 should be more more warm and relaxed; ATE/ATR-ish. You should be fine with those.
  
 ED3c, RX, ZS1/2/3, ZN1 Mini, are all warmer/darker models.


----------



## Brian Coffey

mindy123 said:


> Great stuff - pulling the trigger on a ZST now, enough messing about! If the bass isn't enough for my electronic tastes I can get a ZS3 later.
> Had not heard of the ZST colorful...they sound ideal for me.
> 
> Is this them? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Earphones-Ollivan-Isolating-Earphone-Headphone/dp/B01MRZNYM9
> ...


 
 Yes those are the colorful ZST.


----------



## kokakolia

Thanks! Yeah, the treble on the ED9s really sucks. It's almost as bad as the Superlux 681 which is a treble bazooka of ultimate sibilance. 

It's shrill, splashy, uneven etc...Listening to MacDemarco's jangly guitars with ED9s is really painful. It becomes even more nauseating listening to Animal Collective's Merriweather Post Pavilion. The highs are just all over the place and it gives me headaches. 

Well, glad to hear ED7s are warmer and darker. Too bad I have to wait 3 more weeks for shipping. 

It's just too tempting to spend $60 cad online for Marshall Modes. If you read the Wire Cutter's earphone shootout, they complain a lot about sibilant and poor-fitting earbuds. Especially in the $100 category. The Marshall Mode won because it was neither sibilant or poorly-fitting. Reading that article was so reassuring.


----------



## BWAS1000

b9scrambler said:


> I can see why you would feel "ehhhhhh" on them after that. I was the same with the Micro Ring as ootb one housing wasn't glued at all. Glued it back together and the rest is history. The hugely varied opinions regarding sound are exactly why I didn't add them to the recommended list. If they all sounded like my pair, different story.




Yeah, some people said they were very different from the EDSE, others said they were the same. Mine were the same. I'm still curious about the EDR1 and ED2, but if I ever break my EDSE, I'll just get another


----------



## khighly

mindy123 said:


> Great stuff - pulling the trigger on a ZST now, enough messing about! If the bass isn't enough for my electronic tastes I can get a ZS3 later.
> Had not heard of the ZST colorful...they sound ideal for me.
> 
> Is this them? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Earphones-Ollivan-Isolating-Earphone-Headphone/dp/B01MRZNYM9
> ...


 

 Yes, that is them. It's said that they are the exact same as the original ZST, but I notice slight improvements that bring these up a level past the original ZST's.


----------



## nplateau

Hi everyone.  I've very much enjoyed reading this thread and decided to order the ZS3 and the ZST from Gearbest.  

 I'm having some issues with shipping, though, and was hoping maybe some of you here can provide some insight.  

 Upon checkout, I picked expedited shipping through UPS, which is basically the UPS Innovations service which hands off to the USPS for delivery.  I received an email from Gearbest that my order has been shipped, and I've been given a tracking number.  This was back on the 12th.

 However, on the UPS site it shows as all that has occurred is that a mailing slip has been made, and the tracking number (which is in USPS format) shows as invalid on the USPS tracking site.

 I've contacted Gearbest, UPS and USPS, and none have been particularly helpful, especially Gearbest (I've ordered from them once before with no problem).  

 Any idea of how long I should wait, or what actions I should take to make sure I either receive my order or ask for a refund?  All advice is greatly appreciated.  

 Many thanks in advance.


----------



## waynes world

b9scrambler said:


> Treble was my issue with the ED9 too, but with a different quality; splashiness.
> 
> From what I recall reading earlier in the thread the ED7 should be more more warm and relaxed; ATE/ATR-ish. You should be fine with those.
> 
> ED3c, RX, ZS1/2/3, ZN1 Mini, are all warmer/darker models.


 
  
 I'm usually fairly treble sensitive. But I didn't notice any issues with the ED9 for quite a few days (using the brass nozzles). But then listened to my Nighthawks again for an extended period and switched back to the ED9's. Mistake - the highs sounded a bit much (damn you Nighthawks!). I still like the ED9's though, so we'll see how I feel down the road.


----------



## B9Scrambler

waynes world said:


> I'm usually fairly treble sensitive. But I didn't notice any issues with the ED9 for quite a few days (using the brass nozzles). But then listened to my Nighthawks again for an extended period and switched back to the ED9's. Mistake - the highs sounded a bit much (damn you Nighthawks!). I still like the ED9's though, so we'll see how I feel down the road.


 
  
 I don't find the treble too bright, just sloppy/splashy. Sometimes the treble is awesome though. Said before I have a love/hate relationship with them


----------



## Ptomerty

What size comply tips go on the ATE/S, KZ3, and KZT? Thanks!


----------



## dudinacas

b9scrambler said:


> Given my affinity towards the KZ brand I wrote up a little four part article for my blog, The Contraptionist. Thought some of you here might find it interesting and hopefully helpful too. Obviously everything in there concerning sound is my opinion and based on my personal experiences, so take it for what it is please.
> 
> *Knowledge Zenith: A great place to begin your audiophile journey*​
> Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4​  ​ ​     ​​     ​​


 
 Oh, I read part 1 and 2 a while ago, didn't know you wrote 2 more. Good to know about the HD9 too, I was looking at them and couldn't find out any info about them.


----------



## killerbond

ptomerty said:


> What size comply tips go on the ATE/S, KZ3, and KZT? Thanks!


 
 I'm using the T400 for my ZST, cheers!


----------



## Griffith

I want to drop a small recommendation for KZ fans who appreciate the ZST. Next time you're on an Aliexpress binge consider picking up the Vivo XE800. They are a bright sounding earphone with good soundstage and decent bass (sounds similar?). Basically imagine a ZST that is less harsh in the highs and has a more pleasing midrange.
  
 The only "bad" characteristics I can point out about the Vivo is that it doesn't have as much strain relief as I'd like, the connector is straight rather than angled and after one journey with them on my motorcycle the cable's strain relief at the plug is already slightly tilted.
  
 In terms of sound there is a dip somewhere in the high frequencies that can make some specific types of high frequencies sound more recessed (usually this occurs with cymbals) but female or male vocals sound very smooth and detailed.
  
 They are very comfortable to wear and very small. They sit very flush inside your ear and can be used under a helmet. KZ's Starline tips work on them but be aware that their earphone tip is slimmer than most KZ so you need to buy a T300-sized or lower foam tip. T400 slip off it quite easily.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dudinacas said:


> Oh, I read part 1 and 2 a while ago, didn't know you wrote 2 more. Good to know about the HD9 too, I was looking at them and couldn't find out any info about them.


 
  
 Yup, one a week for three weeks then forever for part 4 to be released, haha. I'm a slacker sometimes. Can thank @RvTrav for the inclusion of the HD9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


griffith said:


> I want to drop a small recommendation for KZ fans who appreciate the ZST. Next time you're on an Aliexpress binge consider picking up the Vivo XE800.


 
  
 Have heard lots of good things about the Vivo. Might have to jump on that bandwagon myself at some point this year. Have a couple more QKZ's on the way however. Couldn't pass on the Mee M6 Pro "inspired" QKZ W6 Pro, especially given how good the W1 Pro is. Need to pick up the M6 Pro at some point to see just how different these two will sound.


----------



## Vidal

griffith said:


> I want to drop a small recommendation for KZ fans who appreciate the ZST. Next time you're on an Aliexpress binge consider picking up the Vivo XE800. They are a bright sounding earphone with good soundstage and decent bass (sounds similar?). Basically imagine a ZST that is less harsh in the highs and has a more pleasing midrange.
> 
> The only "bad" characteristics I can point out about the Vivo is that it doesn't have as much strain relief as I'd like, the connector is straight rather than angled and after one journey with them on my motorcycle the cable's strain relief at the plug is already slightly tilted.
> 
> ...


 
  
 XE800 is a good earphone but my opinion on how they sound is different from yours. I don't find them that bright, I say they're mid forward and they lack bass other than sub bass which is fairly average.


----------



## To.M

B9Scrambler
Excellent work with your mega KZ review!

Hm, W6...I like W1...does it mean I should click BUY?


----------



## B9Scrambler

to.m said:


> @B9Scrambler
> Excellent work with your mega KZ review!
> 
> Hm, W6...I like W1...does it mean I should click BUY?


 
  
 Thanks! Go for it. I'm going into them with expectations that they'll be solidly built with a bassy sound. Hopefully I'm proven wrong on the second half of that statement and that they're fairly balanced, though I doubt it, haha. 
  
 Also ordered the DM8 model since it has dual 6mm drivers and will fit in nicely with my micro-driver thread. It also looks identical to some PHB model which is bring sold for ~60 CAD on Ali. I'll try the budget model, thank you very much.


----------



## To.M

I guess I will go for W6 sooner or later  
As for DM8, they look interesting too, frankly speaking I have no dual driver phones yet...  

But be careful with them:


Avoid long listening sessions otherwise you can start glowing at night


----------



## CoiL

QKZ is not KZ, You know it guys


----------



## B9Scrambler

coil said:


> QKZ is not KZ, You know it guys


 
  
 True true. My bad for going off topic. Let me just queue up some KZ talk   Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
  
 I'm pretty impressed with how well the ZST holds it own against some the other hybrids I have. It's certainly not 80+ USD worse than the 1More C1002.


----------



## To.M

Oh come on, it is Quite almost KZ  

True, I am happy that finally ZST has become a widely appreciated model! My ears have been right since November!


----------



## khighly

to.m said:


> Oh come on, it is Quite almost KZ
> 
> True, I am happy that finally ZST has become a widely appreciated model! My ears have been right since November!




The ZST colorfuls are in my opinion the best you're going to get out of the top most liked in this thread. I have not tried the ZS3 yet, but I believe those are a more bass heavy sound. The ZST colorfuls are wonderful with a soundstage that is unbelievable.

Pearl Jam - Soon Forget is quite possibly one of the best experiences I've ever had with music. I admittedly had imbibed in a small amount of the devil's lettuce before hand, but wow. Close your eyes, you can see a guy playing a ukeule in front of you, his head to maybe 3 degrees right. You can tell exactly which way his head is moving when he's singing, you can tell when he puts his head down and sings, and you can tell exactly which way the ukeule is positioned. It truly is amazing and I get that from no other KZ, or Tennmak. I get that it's a binaural recording, but it just blows my mind.

Colorfuls ARE tuned slightly different than the OG ZST's.


----------



## To.M

Pearl Jam is one of the best expieriences in general, I remember when TEN was out ... geez time flies


----------



## Podster

khighly said:


> The ZST colorfuls are in my opinion the best you're going to get out of the top most liked in this thread. I have not tried the ZS3 yet, but I believe those are a more bass heavy sound. The ZST colorfuls are wonderful with a soundstage that is unbelievable.
> 
> Pearl Jam - Soon Forget is quite possibly one of the best experiences I've ever had with music. I admittedly had imbibed in a small amount of the devil's lettuce before hand, but wow. Close your eyes, you can see a guy playing a ukeule in front of you, his head to maybe 3 degrees right. You can tell exactly which way his head is moving when he's singing, you can tell when he puts his head down and sings, and you can tell exactly which way the ukeule is positioned. It truly is amazing and I get that from no other KZ, or Tennmak. I get that it's a binaural recording, but it just blows my mind.
> 
> Colorfuls ARE tuned slightly different than the OG ZST's.


 

 Nice, can't wait as mine have cleared outbound sorting so should ship from origin soon
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I actually think the OG ZST are nice and look forward to the colorfuls
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are you running stock cables or upgraded/silvers? Not to get the cable nay sayers going but the silver cable opened my OG's up but most could only tell on certain recordings. My buddy has been listening to my OG's and also my 4in1's and thinks the ZST is every bit as good as the ****'s
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I'm really anxious to hear the colorfuls.


----------



## Shadowsora

Bummer, If I would ever buy ZST's would be the black version, if the colourful is indeed tuned better...welp, 1st world problems xD.


----------



## svil3

shadowsora said:


> Bummer, If I would ever buy ZST's would be the black version, if the colourful is indeed tuned better...welp, 1st world problems xD.


 
 Well that's just one person's opinion, everybody else in this thread hasn't noted any difference in the sound between ZST colorful and the black original version.. just saying.


----------



## dudinacas

b9scrambler said:


> Thanks! Go for it. I'm going into them with expectations that they'll be solidly built with a bassy sound. Hopefully I'm proven wrong on the second half of that statement and that they're fairly balanced, though I doubt it, haha.
> 
> Also ordered the DM8 model since it has dual 6mm drivers and will fit in nicely with my micro-driver thread. It also looks identical to some PHB model which is bring sold for ~60 CAD on Ali. I'll try the budget model, thank you very much.


 
 Those look really nice, I'd love to try a dual driver IEM... 
 Now I need to choose between those and the Piston Youths.


----------



## DikZak

griffith said:


> I want to drop a small recommendation for KZ fans who appreciate the ZST. Next time you're on an Aliexpress binge consider picking up the Vivo XE800. They are a bright sounding earphone with good soundstage and decent bass (sounds similar?). Basically imagine a ZST that is less harsh in the highs and has a more pleasing midrange.
> 
> The only "bad" characteristics I can point out about the Vivo is that it doesn't have as much strain relief as I'd like, the connector is straight rather than angled and after one journey with them on my motorcycle the cable's strain relief at the plug is already slightly tilted.
> 
> ...




Funny, as I received my vivo today and still waiting on ZST. Don't know how the ZST is but thought they were very different regarding sound signature. But could be wrong as well.

Agree on the connector bit and the strain relief, those really could have been better.

The Vivo is quite bright and the bass is decent, but I think the bass should be a little bit deeper. The bass isn't really thumbing but is there, let's say recessed. Where I can really hear the bass-guitar strings being pulled with the senzer, it's harder with the vivo. Vocals are very clean indeed. Both male and female, bit of lifelike-effect.

I can say vivo is very detailed on par with the Senzer H1. These are both way above the ATR with the senzer being a bit of a upgrade of the ATR, similiar sound but a bit more thumbing bass and way better clarity over the spectrum. So if you like the ATR, you should check those out. The only thing I dislike is the straight connector. It has better strain relief than the vivo though. 

The vivo compared to the ATR make the ATR very dark and the vivo very bright. But has to say, clarity and detail on vivo is very good. 
They are very comfortable to wear too. 

Senzer: Excells/emphasis in Lower range with great clarity
Vivo: Excells/emphasis in higher range with great clarity
ATR: Good lower range, but missing detail compared against these above. For the money, never had better sounding iems. But spending twice as much will give you a lot of SQ. 

Question I would like to ask: 
How does the HLSX808 sound?


----------



## rackinov

dudinacas said:


> Those look really nice, I'd love to try a dual driver IEM...
> Now I need to choose between those and the Piston Youths.



Why stop at the piston youths? I've been using the piston threes for about a month now and love them. They're incredibly well made for the price and the sound quality is stellar. I highly recommend


----------



## dudinacas

rackinov said:


> Why stop at the piston youths? I've been using the piston threes for about a month now and love them. They're incredibly well made for the price and the sound quality is stellar. I highly recommend


 

 Actually, I might do that, but if the SQ of the Youths is the same as the Piston 3 (I don't know for sure but someone said it is) then it might just be worth saving the $10. Love the looks and build quality of the 3 though.


----------



## jcjwebster

svil3 said:


> Well that's just one person's opinion, everybody else in this thread hasn't noted any difference in the sound between ZST colorful and the black original version.. just saying.




I have both and they sound the same to me. I just received the silver cable and haven't noticed any difference with it on the colored version, but I haven't been swapping them back and forth to really test. Might do it over the weekend once I'm done playing with the Tennmark Cello and 1more triples I received as well. I have to stop my wife is getting a litte pissed with all the iems I've been purchasing the last few months, this definitely gets addictive.


----------



## Degree

Anyone had experience with this seller? https://****.aliexpress.com/store/519064
 Looking to buy the KZ ZS3, thanks!


----------



## Keller1

11 days until febuary.
 8 days until chinese new year.


 I'm hoping we get a bunch of official pictures of the ZSR / ZSR Pro soon.
  
 Hype train is steaming ahead in full force.


----------



## B9Scrambler

degree said:


> Anyone had experience with this seller? https://****.aliexpress.com/store/519064
> Looking to buy the KZ ZS3, thanks!


 
  
 Unfortunately talk of that particular seller is banned on Head-fi.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

dudinacas said:


> Actually, I might do that, but if the SQ of the Youths is the same as the Piston 3 (I don't know for sure but someone said it is) then it might just be worth saving the $10. Love the looks and build quality of the 3 though.


 
 I got the youths in a week ago.  They have a much thinner sound.  A far cry from the Piston 3s I have.
  
 I think the sound quality has gone down on the Piston lineup ever since the discontinuation of the Piston 3.  I had a Piston Colorful that sounded almost as good as the Piston 3.  I ordered another set on november 2016 and it's pretty bad compared to my old one.  All of my Pistons are working so I can easily do a/b testing.  The Piston Youth I have is slightly better, but Piston 3 has a more refined sound with less harshness in the highs and a bassier profile.
  
 I can't recommend the Pistons anymore due to this variance in sound quality.  You never know what you're gonna get.
  
 Meanwhile the KZ stuff is what goes with me nowadays.


----------



## ezekiel77

b9scrambler said:


> Given my affinity towards the KZ brand I wrote up a little four part article for my blog, The Contraptionist. Thought some of you here might find it interesting and hopefully helpful too. Obviously everything in there concerning sound is my opinion and based on my personal experiences, so take it for what it is please.
> ​


 
  
 Thank you, thank you. I had a run with KZ and really enjoyed the ED9 and ED3c, thanks for the new recommendations. ZST, ATR and ED10 sounds up my alley.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ezekiel77 said:


> Thank you, thank you. I had a run with KZ and really enjoyed the ED9 and ED3c, thanks for the new recommendations. ZST, ATR and ED10 sounds up my alley.


 
  
 Cheers mate! All three are at least worth a try.


----------



## jcjwebster

b9scrambler said:


> Unfortunately talk of that particular seller is banned on Head-fi.




Really, I didn't know that. I recently placed 3 orders with them in the last month, fast shipping. Had one issue and they corrected it immediately. Is there a list of banned sellers?


----------



## dudinacas

degree said:


> Anyone had experience with this seller? https://****.aliexpress.com/store/519064
> Looking to buy the KZ ZS3, thanks!


 

 I bought whirlwind eartips from this seller, arrived super quickly and were legitimate.


----------



## B9Scrambler

jcjwebster said:


> Really, I didn't know that. I recently placed 3 orders with them in the last month, fast shipping. Had one issue and they corrected it immediately.* Is there a list of banned sellers?*


 
  
 Not that I know of. Would definitely be a good sticky for the mods to post at the top of relevant forum sections though. An explanation as to why was posted in the original Chinese/Asian Brand thread before it was re-booted. Can't recall the page though.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

jcjwebster said:


> Really, I didn't know that. I recently placed 3 orders with them in the last month, fast shipping. Had one issue and they corrected it immediately. Is there a list of banned sellers?


headfi Bans any mention of the seller but you are not banned if you buy from him


----------



## dudinacas

sometechnoob said:


> I got the youths in a week ago.  They have a much thinner sound.  A far cry from the Piston 3s I have.
> 
> I think the sound quality has gone down on the Piston lineup ever since the discontinuation of the Piston 3.  I had a Piston Colorful that sounded almost as good as the Piston 3.  I ordered another set on november 2016 and it's pretty bad compared to my old one.  All of my Pistons are working so I can easily do a/b testing.  The Piston Youth I have is slightly better, but Piston 3 has a more refined sound with less harshness in the highs and a bassier profile.
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, really? That sucks. Looks like I'm either going to get the QKZ DM8 or the Piston 3, but definitely leaning towards the QKZ right now. According to another review on Head-fi a while ago the Piston Youths and Piston 3s sounded the same, so either they've changed it or Xiaomi's QC is horrible.


----------



## Shawn71

ezekiel77 said:


> Thank you, thank you. I had a run with KZ and really enjoyed the ED9 and ED3c, thanks for the new recommendations. ZST, ATR and ED10 sounds up my alley.




Add ZS3 too.......


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ZS3 is like a better ATR for me. So good. Except for the memory wire if you stuff your IEMs in your pocket.


----------



## VinceHill24

keller1 said:


> 11 days until febuary.
> 
> 8 days until chinese new year.
> 
> ...


 They're already closed for CNY holiday since 2 days ago and only after 4th February will we be seeing any updates on the ZSR when they get back to work. It's been a long long wait, i hope it will be worthy for the price tag of 599yuan as mentioned before.


----------



## crabdog

dikzak said:


> Funny, as I received my vivo today and still waiting on ZST. Don't know how the ZST is but thought they were very different regarding sound signature. But could be wrong as well.
> 
> Agree on the connector bit and the strain relief, those really could have been better.
> 
> ...



The 808 is amazing. They're thin in the mids but the bass is solid and the amount of detail you get with them is just crazy.


----------



## CoiL

dikzak said:


> Question I would like to ask:
> How does the HLSX808 sound?


 
 808 is V-shaped with slightly recessed or neutral  at most mids and needs some modding and using right type ultra-wide bore tips to sound great.
 If modded - 808 sounds amazeballs for EDM, atmospheric ambient electronic music and such.


sometechnoob said:


> ZS3 is like a better ATR for me. So good. Except for the memory wire if you stuff your IEMs in your pocket.


 
 I guess I got to get ZS3 too after I get my ZST(c).


----------



## Vidal

sometechnoob said:


> I can't recommend the Pistons anymore due to this variance in sound quality.  You never know what you're gonna get.
> 
> Meanwhile the KZ stuff is what goes with me nowadays.


 
  
 So many fake Pistons out there. 1More do a version nothing special or ground breaking but fairly solid performer


----------



## hoerlurar

dudinacas said:


> sometechnoob said:
> 
> 
> > I got the youths in a week ago.  They have a much thinner sound.  A far cry from the Piston 3s I have.
> ...




A couple of years ago when i tested P3 against Piston youth they sounded the same to me. But i only did a quick test, and i have no idea if newer pistons sound the same as my pairs.
I think i prefer my various KZ nowadays though. At least thats what i listen to (in addition to 4in1, urbanfun, qcy qy19 and tennmak dulcimer)


----------



## SomeTechNoob

vidal said:


> So many fake Pistons out there. 1More do a version nothing special or ground breaking but fairly solid performer


 
 Got all of mine from GearBest, except the Piston 3 which was from Banggood.  They should all be legit.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

sometechnoob said:


> Got all of mine from GearBest, except the Piston 3 which was from Banggood.  They should all be legit.


 
 Should I worry about buying other brands of Chinese headphones on Aliexpress because they might be fake?


----------



## killerbond

laughmoredaily said:


> Should I worry about buying other brands of Chinese headphones on Aliexpress because they might be fake?


 
 IMO, you should try buying from GearBest first. If they don't provide that kind of headphones, go to Aliexpress and look for highly recommended stores with additional keywords: original, authentic, etc. then pray


----------



## vegetaleb

The KZ ZS3 are really good, specially after decreasing the bass, I can hear details in songs I never heard before!
 Though the answer button is a half unresponsive and I use it for next/previous tracks controls, needless to say it gets messy and instead of doing next track it will pause the song.
 About that, it's supposed to ''pause'' the song not to terminate the music app, but if I don't resume in the 3 seconds after ''pausing'' the whole app will close.
 So any way ''force'' resume music?
 Any way to make tu answer button more responsive?


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> The ZST colorfuls are in my opinion the best you're going to get out of the top most liked in this thread. I have not tried the ZS3 yet, but I believe those are a more bass heavy sound. The ZST colorfuls are wonderful with a soundstage that is unbelievable.
> 
> Pearl Jam - Soon Forget is quite possibly one of the best experiences I've ever had with music. I admittedly had imbibed in a small amount of the devil's lettuce before hand, but wow. Close your eyes, you can see a guy playing a ukeule in front of you, his head to maybe 3 degrees right. You can tell exactly which way his head is moving when he's singing, you can tell when he puts his head down and sings, and you can tell exactly which way the ukeule is positioned. It truly is amazing and I get that from no other KZ, or Tennmak. I get that it's a binaural recording, but it just blows my mind.
> 
> Colorfuls ARE tuned slightly different than the OG ZST's.


Does This iem is better than the expensive iem like sennheiser,byerdyanamic,or etc.. Cuz your description on zst colorful is just pissing me off,does the sound really good? Or better than campfire audio layla huh?


----------



## crabdog

mus1c said:


> Does This iem is better than the expensive iem like sennheiser,byerdyanamic,or etc.. Cuz your description on zst colorful is just pissing me off,does the sound really good? Or better than campfire audio layla huh?


 
 That seems overly aggressive. What is your point exactly?


----------



## ayao

mus1c said:


> Does This iem is better than the expensive iem like sennheiser,byerdyanamic,or etc.. Cuz your description on zst colorful is just pissing me off,does the sound really good? Or better than campfire audio layla huh?


 
 ZST is not comparable to the JHA Layla because the sound signature is different. I own both earphones and have been using the Layla (v1) for the past 2 weeks. I just listened to the ZST (colorful) for the past half hour and can confirm that I still REALLY like them. Could do with more mid-bass and low-mids but for <12USD (11.11 sale) it's nothing to complain about. Some people prefer the ZS3, others prefer the ED9, YMMV.


----------



## VinceHill24

mus1c said:


> Does This iem is better than the expensive iem like sennheiser,byerdyanamic,or etc.. Cuz your description on zst colorful is just pissing me off,does the sound really good? Or better than campfire audio layla huh?


I feel you gotta chill a bit here as he did state that it is in his opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion especially when there's more subjective opinion than objective when it comes to audio. And comparing 10+$ IEM with 2000$ IEM ??? It doesn't sound sane to me at all as they're definitely at a different league


----------



## B9Scrambler

I think @Mus1c's comment was made in jest and there is some misinterpretation. Pretty easy to see it both ways though since this is the internet and sarcasm/facetiousness doesn't really come through via text all that well. Usually. 
  
​


----------



## KcLKcL

Between the ED3c and EDR2, which one is more comfortable to wear for hours?


----------



## B9Scrambler

kclkcl said:


> Between the ED3c and EDR2, which one is more comfortable to wear for hours?


 
  
 I don't find much of a difference given they're both pretty standard barrel shapes and very light. If I had to choose I would give the edge ever so slightly to the EDR2 simply because the housing it a little small in diameter and it's less likely to touch your ear. ED3c has a better signature for long term listening though; warmer and smoother with less prominent treble. Well, mine does at least


----------



## KcLKcL

b9scrambler said:


> I don't find much of a difference given they're both pretty standard barrel shapes and very light. If I had to choose I would give the edge ever so slightly to the EDR2 simply because the housing it a little small in diameter and it's less likely to touch your ear. ED3c has a better signature for long term listening though; warmer and smoother with less prominent treble. Well, mine does at least




How dark is the ED3c compared to ATR? The ATR is too dark for me. The right amount of treble for me is the ZS3's treble, it's still smooth while maintaining clarity, but I'm still having issues with ZS3's fit (it hurts my ears)

I could probably get both ED3c and EDR2 but noo I already have too many IEMs lol


----------



## RvTrav

There has been a lot of discussion as to which KZ is best, with people listing their preferences.  The important fact is that the person making the list can detect differences between earphones that will allow them to understand what it is that causes one earphone to be more enjoyable to them than the other. (these lists may or may not have any relevance to your likes)  Even an earphone that you find you dislike should be used as an opportunity to better define your personal likes and dislikes.  When I sit down to listen to my music I always have 3 or 4 different earphones available because my favourite at that time will depend on my mood, the mood I want to obtain, the genre of the music and even the artist I decide on.  I have been in this hobby for about 4 year now have purchased quite a few earphones however I am sure the benefits of a $2000 earphone would still be beyond my ability to truly appreciate.  Years from now and after getting know many more earphones hopefully I will be able to work up to the point where I can appreciate the value of a $2000 earphone.  For now I am still getting a lot of enjoyment and learning from the below $50 earphones.  My point is that with the many different KZ models available and their reasonable price there is plenty of opportunity to learn your personal preferences so that when you decide to make that next earphone purchase you will have a better understanding of what to look when doing your research for your next purchase.  I've owned the ZSTs for about 2 months now and I must say that they are still very enjoyable and continue to impress me.


----------



## Podster

kclkcl said:


> How dark is the ED3c compared to ATR? The ATR is too dark for me. The right amount of treble for me is the ZS3's treble, it's still smooth while maintaining clarity, but I'm still having issues with ZS3's fit (it hurts my ears)
> 
> I could probably get both ED3c and EDR2 but noo I already have too many IEMs lol


 

 Oh come on now, no one can have too many KZ iem's


----------



## B9Scrambler

kclkcl said:


> How dark is the ED3c compared to ATR? The ATR is too dark for me. The right amount of treble for me is the ZS3's treble, it's still smooth while maintaining clarity, but I'm still having issues with ZS3's fit (it hurts my ears)
> 
> I could probably get both ED3c and EDR2 but noo I already have too many IEMs lol


 
  
 I would say the ATR is the darker of the two. If you want something closer to the ZS3's presentation, the RX could be a better pick. Traditional traditional shape and a little more ergonomic than the ED3c. Very similar signature but with a touch more treble emphasis.
  
 As Pod said, you can never have too many iems


----------



## kokakolia

Okay, I have been reading many pages from this thread. 

It seems like everyone here likes a little sparkle in their treble. They want a bright sound. There's nothing wrong with that, everyone has a preference. 

I am the complete opposite. I like my headphones/earphones warm and dark. What I'm saying is that I jolt at the sight of sibilance and metallic-sounding treble. Call it shellshock from the Superlux 681. 

So here's my deal: 

- What is the KZ sound? Every brand has a unique sound signature. 
- If I absolutely loathed the ED9s, can I basically rule out most KZ earphones out of my life? 
- Am I expecting too much out of $5~$30 earphones? Is it worth it to spend more on a good pair? 

Based on the limited feedback I read online, it seems like I would like the ED7s. But I am still waiting for shipping.


----------



## zabunny94

kokakolia said:


> - What is the KZ sound? Every brand has a unique sound signature.
> - If I absolutely loathed the ED9s, can I basically rule out most KZ earphones out of my life?
> - Am I expecting too much out of $5~$30 earphones? Is it worth it to spend more on a good pair?
> 
> Based on the limited feedback I read online, it seems like I would like the ED7s. But I am still waiting for shipping.




-I don't think that there's any unique sound tuning that's more prominent in KZ product, you can't really expect a "house" sound signature within chinese brand because most of them oem-ed their product from somewhere else, unlike major brands who is doing their own research.

-you can just get ATE, if you hate both ATE and ED9 then you can just say goodbye to KZ. Considering they're like the polar opposite.

-yes you are, you had to be more realistic about expectations. KZ iems mostly are $10 iems that sounds like $10 iems. Nothing more or less. Going up twice the price won't give you twice the improvement though, that is where KZ shine because it maybe 80% similar in sounds to some of $20 -$30 iems


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> Okay, I have been reading many pages from this thread.
> 
> It seems like everyone here likes a little sparkle in their treble. They want a bright sound. There's nothing wrong with that, everyone has a preference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My general observations on the different KZ series' are;
  
 EDx series is generally bright and u/v-shaped (ED3c is an exception)
 ATx series is generally warm, neutral-ish with more mellow relaxed treble and a mid-bass tilt
 ZSx series is dark and bassy (ZST is an exception)
 HDSx series pulls from all three; HDS1 neutral-ish, HDS2 warm and bassy, HDS3 v-shaped
  
 That's more or less what I expect from each series when there is a new release. There are other one-offs that may or may not fit into those somewhat vague classifications. If you dislike treble, the ATx and ZSx series earphones would probably offer the best choices. Avoid EDx.


----------



## kokakolia

zabunny94 said:


> -you can just get ATE, if you hate both ATE and ED9 then you can just say goodbye to KZ. Considering they're like the polar opposite.
> 
> -yes you are, you had to be more realistic about expectations. KZ iems mostly are $10 iems that sounds like $10 iems. Nothing more or less. Going up twice the price won't give you twice the improvement though, that is where KZ shine because it maybe 80% similar in sounds to some of $20 -$30 iems


 
 - I don't like the over-ear form factor so I'm ruling the ATE out of the picture. So the ED9 is definitely on the extreme bright side of the KZ spectrum? 
  
 - So that confirms it: I should have bought the $60 Marshall Mode over spending a total of $50 cad on several pairs of cheap IEMs that don't cut the mustard. 
  
 I will say that the value proposition is interesting with KZ if you find the Goldilocks pair and you break/lose your headphones often.


----------



## Saoshyant

zabunny94 said:


> -yes you are, you had to be more realistic about expectations. KZ iems mostly are $10 iems that sounds like $10 iems. Nothing more or less. Going up twice the price won't give you twice the improvement though, that is where KZ shine because it maybe 80% similar in sounds to some of $20 -$30 iems


 
  
 The quality of sound for a $10 KZ IEM is improved over IEMs of the past to my ears, so I can't really agree with this statement.  I'd easily pick a KZ like the ZS3 or ZST over some of the popular budget choices a few years back like the Monoprice 8320, JVC HA-FX101, MEElec M6, Astrotec AX-35, and others as well.  Now I won't make any outrageous claims of them being giant killers or anything of the like, but I really do respect the quality of the product.  Of course the most important thing is finding an IEM that suits your preferred sound signature, but the KZ's I enjoy all perform above their cost.  The ATE even gets mentioned on the Basshead IEM thread for it's ability to handle an insane amount of boosting.


----------



## zabunny94

saoshyant said:


> The quality of sound for a $10 KZ IEM is improved over IEMs of the past to my ears, so I can't really agree with this statement.  I'd easily pick a KZ like the ZS3 or ZST over some of the popular budget choices a few years back like the Monoprice 8320, JVC HA-FX101, MEElec M6, Astrotec AX-35, and others as well.  Now I won't make any outrageous claims of them being giant killers or anything of the like, but I really do respect the quality of the product.  Of course the most important thing is finding an IEM that suits your preferred sound signature, but the KZ's I enjoy all perform above their cost.  The ATE even gets mentioned on the Basshead IEM thread for it's ability to handle an insane amount of boosting.




With the $20 iems from other chinese brands starting to sounds like $50 one, and the $50 one starting to sounds like $100, i guess you can't really say that $10 kz iem perform like $50 iem, since the average $50 iem already perform like $100 one


----------



## kokakolia

zabunny94 said:


> With the $20 iems from other chinese brands starting to sounds like $50 one, and the $50 one starting to sounds like $100, i guess you can't really say that $10 kz iem perform like $50 iem, since the average $50 iem already perform like $100 one


 
 YES!!! 
  
 100% agree. 
  
 Case in point: Marshall Mode.


----------



## rackinov

dudinacas said:


> Actually, I might do that, but if the SQ of the Youths is the same as the Piston 3 (I don't know for sure but someone said it is) then it might just be worth saving the $10. Love the looks and build quality of the 3 though.



The mechanics of the two models I'm pretty sure are the same but build quality is still a massive advantage that the threes have. I've heard that the YE can have some problems with the cable being too fragile. For 10 more dollars I'd go with the ones that last a bit longer but I do agree, the differences in SQ will be minimal.

 I tried the kz Ate just last week and for the same price as the piston threes they're also a great choice. For the price though you may as well get both


----------



## LucianLS

I bought the ATR and EDR2.
  
 The ATR is, I guess, pretty good for a 5 euro phone. It's a bit better than what I bought locally for 15 euros, like JVC HA-FX102 (very V-shaped) or some Panasonic.
  
 But it still has a chronic lack of detail. When I put on my full size Superlux HD681EVO it's like having a revelation. Lesson learned: don't expect 5 euro IEMs to match even 35 euro over-ear headphones.
  
 The EDR2 didn't seem any better, maybe a tad more bass but I can't be bothered to test them any more.


----------



## CoiL

lucianls said:


> But it still has a *chronic lack of detail. *


 
 That`s too harshly said imo
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What tips did You use?
 What is Your source gear and file quality?
  
 I have HD-681 (red ring old version) that is amplitude-corrector modded (Frans filter mod) and my source gear(s) give me better result with ATR actually with KZ starline tips.
 Maybe You are not so used with its signature or Your preference is slightly boosted highs?


----------



## Ruben123

saoshyant said:


> The quality of sound for a $10 KZ IEM is improved over IEMs of the past to my ears, so I can't really agree with this statement.  I'd easily pick a KZ like the ZS3 or ZST over some of the popular budget choices a few years back like the Monoprice 8320, JVC HA-FX101, MEElec M6, Astrotec AX-35, and others as well.  Now I won't make any outrageous claims of them being giant killers or anything of the like, but I really do respect the quality of the product.  Of course the most important thing is finding an IEM that suits your preferred sound signature, but the KZ's I enjoy all perform above their cost.  The ATE even gets mentioned on the Basshead IEM thread for it's ability to handle an insane amount of boosting.




And I've heard many kzs and prefer the Monoprices to most  everybody has a different taste.

What annoys me too is the comparison to "$50 earphones". There is no $50 headphone. There are good and bad ones. And with the cheap Chinese earphones value doesn't mean anything anymore. The ve monks are being compared to the Sennheiser hd800 but I find my hd439 to be much better than the monks, and they're only $60-100 or so. 

It'd be the best to keep price totally out of reviews. At least in comparisons. You could say that you are glad paying that amount of money, meaning it has a good value, but even then, some people here buy $1000 cables and call them value.......


----------



## Mus1c

crabdog said:


> That seems overly aggressive. What is your point exactly?


 hey im not being aggressive to someone,my point is that are the zst is one of the kind kz you should get because in my mind if somebody say its good or better maybe it will defeat the expensive iem like (im not choose like thousand dollars this time) sennheiser, byerdyamic or anything else if expensive.


----------



## Mus1c

vincehill24 said:


> I feel you gotta chill a bit here as he did state that it is in his opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion especially when there's more subjective opinion than objective when it comes to audio. And comparing 10+$ IEM with 2000$ IEM ??? It doesn't sound sane to me at all as they're definitely at a different league


 My bad it does sound stupid when comparing dirt cheap iem to like ciem.Im curious if this iem can beat like beats headphones.


----------



## VinceHill24

mus1c said:


> My bad it does sound stupid when comparing dirt cheap iem to like ciem.Im curious if this iem can beat like beats headphones.


I have not own a Beats but i have a friend who has some beats and bose headphones got amazed by how the ZST sound at such low price. Again it boils down to personal preferences + what we look for when we look for a pair of headphones / IEM. As far as i know Beats is not appreciated here or by audiophiles generally. They are all about the marketing. 

As you say, they are dirt cheap. But the sound coming out from it doesn't sound like a cheap stuff you get by the roadside stalls so IMO they are setting a high standard for cheap budget IEM. Where else can you get a good quality IEM at 10$ or below right ?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

vincehill24 said:


> I have not own a Beats but i have a friend who has some beats and bose headphones got amazed by how the ZST sound at such low price.


 
 What sound signature is better to you? The ZST or the ZST Colourful?


----------



## listen4joy

this thread has 1038 pages. anyone can tell me what is the best KZ earphone? and what is the price? i checked in taobao links it all in chineese.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

listen4joy said:


> this thread has 1038 pages. anyone can tell me what is the best KZ earphone? and what is the price? i checked in taobao links it all in chineese.


 
 Like bass and less treble? KZ ZS3
  
 Like midrange and some treble sparkle?  KZ ZST, either black or colorful.
  
 On a really tight budget?  KZ ATR.
  
 Don't like over ear?  KZ ED9
  
 edit: +1 to gearbest.  Cheapest prices for KZ stuff and it's all legit.


----------



## wgrish7

listen4joy said:


> this thread has 1038 pages. anyone can tell me what is the best KZ earphone? and what is the price? i checked in taobao links it all in chineese.


 

 Check out gearbest.com and aliexpress.com


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> Like bass and less treble? KZ ZS3
> 
> Like midrange and some treble sparkle?  KZ ZST, either black or colorful.
> 
> ...


 Simple recommendations and yet not confuse


----------



## listen4joy

thnx for answers.


----------



## kokoy

Is the ZST a significant upgrade over the Soundmagic ES18 or Philips SHE3590? Like, night and day difference?

i've read users here claiming the ZST has a w-shaped sound sig. does it respond well to EQing? I don't like piercing highs and sibilance..

tia guys...


----------



## Griffith

kokoy said:


> Is the ZST a significant upgrade over the Soundmagic ES18 or Philips SHE3590? Like, night and day difference?
> 
> i've read users here claiming the ZST has a w-shaped sound sig. does it respond well to EQing? I don't like piercing highs and sibilance..
> 
> tia guys...


 
  
 If you don't like piercing highs I don't think you will appreciate the ZST. It has a very lively and forward presentation, great soundstage and it just overall brightens up your music and makes it sound more engaging. With that said, they can be tiring to listen to for long sessions.
  
 I have never tried or heard any opinions about the two earphones you mentioned but ZST has plenty of earphones that suit different types of tastes.
  
 If you like more neutral sounding earphones, try the KZ ATE.
  
 If you like bassy earphones try the KZ ED9, KZ ATR or KZ ZS3, or even the HDS1 if you want something that has bass but also a very unique feel to it.
  
 If you want a very bright and forward presentation try the ZST. In technical terms I believe that the ZST is easily the best sounding KZ earphone out of the ones I've tried. It has the best resolution out of any KZ earphone I've tried, some of the best imaging and soundstage which rivals or equals the KZ earphones I've tried and consider the best in that aspect. It has a removable cable, an upgrade cable option which makes them slightly less harsh on the highs. It's undoubtedly my favorite KZ earphone. If I were to pick only 3 earphones out of KZ's line they would be the ZS3, the ATE and the ZST. Those three sound significantly different from each other and each have different strengths and witnesses but all are very pleasant to listen to.


----------



## Ruben123

griffith said:


> If you don't like piercing highs I don't think you will appreciate the ZST. It has a very lively and forward presentation, great soundstage and it just overall brightens up your music and makes it sound more engaging. With that said, they can be tiring to listen to for long sessions.
> 
> I have never tried or heard any opinions about the two earphones you mentioned but ZST has plenty of earphones that suit different types of tastes.
> 
> ...




I will keep saying it, please stop calling the ed9s bassy... Just throw away the golden filters when you get em


----------



## crabdog

ruben123 said:


> I will keep saying it, please stop calling the ed9s bassy... Just throw away the golden filters when you get em


 
 I prefer the gold filters. Let the people decide pls.


----------



## Saoshyant

What are the two colors for the ED9 filters again?  I have 4 filters and can't remember which came from what.  If they're bronze and gold, why didn't they go for something more easily distinguishable like red and blue?


----------



## kokoy

@ Griffith

thanks for the reply..
yes, i've read from this thread that the zst is bright and lively, but does it respond well to EQing? just to tame those highs if it gets too bright for me..

forgot to add that soundstage is a big plus for me, not bassy too..


----------



## zabunny94

saoshyant said:


> What are the two colors for the ED9 filters again?  I have 4 filters and can't remember which came from what.  If they're bronze and gold, why didn't they go for something more easily distinguishable like red and blue?




Dont worry, After a month or two, it'll become gold and green because of the bronze filter corrosion lol


----------



## Ruben123

crabdog said:


> I prefer the gold filters. Let the people decide pls.




It wasn't meant literally. The ed9 with golden filters are not special at all, there are 1001 cheap Chinese earphones that sound the same but better. Its the brass filters that make them special, and they're not warm or bassy at all. It just doesn't do the ed9 justice, calling them bassy. No one should buy them for the golden filters, but for the brass ones.


----------



## zabunny94

ruben123 said:


> It wasn't meant literally. The ed9 with golden filters are not special at all, there are 1001 cheap Chinese earphones that sound the same but better. Its the brass filters that make them special, and they're not warm or bassy at all. It just doesn't do the ed9 justice, calling them bassy. No one should buy them for the golden filters, but for the brass ones.




+1

In fact, i think that ed9 with gold filter and ed3c kinda overlapping each other, though i still prefer ed3c than ed9(G) because the former feels a bit warmer


----------



## LucianLS

coil said:


> That`s too harshly said imo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I used the tips that came with. I'm not impressed by suggestions of different tips, even less by the ridiculous idea of fitting "better" cables as I've seen in this thread.
  
 The (multiple) source gear and file quality were the same so that's irrelevant, sorry. I'm using an actual sound card, not the onboard crap, if you must know.
  
 Finally, it's not about sound signature. I've gone from the extremely airy Sennheiser HD201 to the rather bassy Superlux HD681EVOs and despite the big difference in frequency response, both had much higher detail even with electronic music.
  
 I'm not disputing that yours might be great, but mine's a dud and I'm not surprised at the variation in quality. Bought from gearbest, not some random store from aliexpress.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

After using the ZST for a few weeks i am still impreesed and i like them , i have also bought the ATR . I lke them too . different sound and little smaller IEM but my son liked them some much that he just took them .. lol .. I dont hear any one about the ZS1 .. Is there a reason for ?  is it NO good ? any one can comment on the difference between the ZST and the ZS 1 ?  
  
 hope to find out ..


----------



## nocturnalbeast

Hey everyone! (It's my first post!!!)
I'm a guy who's about to take his first step towards better audio. I've been following most threads on audiophile equipment and literally read over 300+ reviews on different audiophile equipment and recently I came across this thread. I was hooked, the idea of a great audio upgrade at such a low cost was appealing to me, to say the least. So I was thinking of buying a Hi-Fi player and a pair of IEMs to go with it. To be specific, I want to buy a Colorfly C3 along with a good KZ IEM. But I need your help in deciding which IEM to buy. So please help me out with your suggestions.

I've shortlisted my choices to ED9, ZST, ZS3 and ATE.
I prefer and engaging sound (v-shaped or w-shaped) and a soundstage that doesn't feel like the music's playing in the center of my brain. Sometimes, I also like to sleep with my earphones still in. And I would also like an IEM that isolates well.

So, what do you guys recommend? (Feel free to suggest any KZ IEM that's not in my list too)
Also, what's a better aftermarket pair of tips for the IEM you recommend?
Plus, would you need an amp for the IEM you suggested? If yes, then would you recommend an amp (sub 100$ if possible)?
Also, I live in India. So which seller is better for me, in terms of shipping speed and reliability?

Sorry for the long post and for bombarding you guys with lots of questions. It's just that I'm confused by a lot of choices. 

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## kokakolia

griffith said:


> If you don't like piercing highs I don't think you will appreciate the ZST. It has a very lively and forward presentation, great soundstage and it just overall brightens up your music and makes it sound more engaging. With that said, they can be tiring to listen to for long sessions.
> 
> If you like more neutral sounding earphones, try the KZ ATE.
> 
> If you like bassy earphones try the KZ ED9, KZ ATR or KZ ZS3, or even the HDS1 if you want something that has bass but also a very unique feel to it.




I really can't stand the piercing highs on the ED9 so the ZST must sound like a thousand nails scraping a chalkboard. 

To me, the ED9 would have been perfect if it weren't for the splashy, shrill treble of pain. It's not as bad as the Philips SHE3950 though. 

I also had the Aukey C2 earbuds (generic China IEM) and they also had piercing highs like the ED9. 

The ED9 in a nutshell: Deep "V" sound with lots of treble and lots of bass. It's not particularly warm, it sounds quite thin actually. 

I really believe that this thread hyped up these $10 earphones to the max. 

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

kokakolia said:


> I really can't stand the piercing highs on the ED9 so the ZST must sound like a thousand nails scraping a chalkboard.
> 
> To me, the ED9 would have been perfect if it weren't for the splashy, shrill treble of pain. It's not as bad as the Philips SHE3950 though.


 
 I feel the same way, ED9 is a bad set of headphones. I didn't realize it's the treble I don't like. I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## B9Scrambler

laughmoredaily said:


> I feel the same way, *ED9 is a bad set of headphones*. I didn't realize it's the treble I don't like. I'll keep that in mind.


 
  
 That's going a little overboard. Not to your preference, sure. Bad? Far from it.


----------



## Griffith

kokoy said:


> @ Griffith
> 
> thanks for the reply..
> yes, i've read from this thread that the zst is bright and lively, but does it respond well to EQing? just to tame those highs if it gets too bright for me..
> ...


 
  
 I don't personally EQ most of my earphones but some audiophiles who've reviewed or given impressions on the ZST have complimented their EQ'ing capability, but that's as far as my knowledge of it goes.
  


ruben123 said:


> I will keep saying it, please stop calling the ed9s bassy... Just throw away the golden filters when you get em


 
  
 I don't criticize anyone's taste in earphones or their taste in earphones or music. I prefer the bassy filters and in my opinion, which varies from yours, they provide the most satisfying signature response out of the ED9. In my opinion the balanced, wider, filter makes the ED9 sound airy, they eliminate almost all of the sub bass and give some tracks, particularly more acoustic sounding ones the sense that you're listening to them inside a room without any sound dampening and in my opinion that is much more unpleasant to listen to than to listen to the ED9 with the bass (narrow) filter.
  
 You're welcome to have your own preference and opinion but I kindly ask that you don't dismiss other people's.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

b9scrambler said:


> That's going a little overboard. Not to your preference, sure. Bad? Far from it.


 
 Grammarly wanted me to change the word I had before... so I did and that's what I decided. It's not a 100% correct word, yes. But sound is all personal opinion. Listening to ED9's have a high shriek that can be irritating. I can't even see myself listening to those headphones for more than hour. What is bad? Perhaps that is.


----------



## Griffith

laughmoredaily said:


> Grammarly wanted me to change the word I had before... so I did and that's what I decided. It's not a 100% correct word, yes. But sound is all personal opinion. Listening to ED9's have a high shriek that can be irritating. I can't even see myself listening to those headphones for more than hour. What is bad? Perhaps that is.


 
  
 I don't find the ED9 to be the most "comfortable" earphones out of KZ's line in terms of sound signature. In my opinion those would be the KZ ATE (5th, current, generation) or the KZ ZS3. And although I've gotten fatigue from listening to the KZ ZST, despite appreciating their sound, I've never gotten fatigued from the ED9 with their bass filter. They are similar sounding to the ZS3 with the bass filter, they just have stronger sub bass and a bit more treble.


----------



## Ruben123

nocturnalbeast said:


> Hey everyone! (It's my first post!!!)
> I'm a guy who's about to take his first step towards better audio. I've been following most threads on audiophile equipment and literally read over 300+ reviews on different audiophile equipment and recently I came across this thread. I was hooked, the idea of a great audio upgrade at such a low cost was appealing to me, to say the least. So I was thinking of buying a Hi-Fi player and a pair of IEMs to go with it. To be specific, I want to buy a Colorfly C3 along with a good KZ IEM. But I need your help in deciding which IEM to buy. So please help me out with your suggestions.
> 
> I've shortlisted my choices to ED9, ZST, ZS3 and ATE.
> ...




I would go with A MUCH cheaper music player (have a mobile phone?) And better earphones. Havi B3s are hard to skip and are excellent. Others might help you with other nicely priced in ears, not to say kzs are bad, just don't spend all the money on a media player and none on earphones


----------



## waynes world

b9scrambler said:


> That's going a little overboard. Not to your preference, sure. Bad? Far from it.


 
  
 +1.
  
 Btw, I get quite a nice SQ by inserting the ed9's fairly deeply and getting a good seal (which I could only do once I tried some other non-stock tips). Without doing that, they don't sound good. I wonder if that's the problem people are having?


----------



## nocturnalbeast

ruben123 said:


> I would go with A MUCH cheaper music player (have a mobile phone?) And better earphones. Havi B3s are hard to skip and are excellent. Others might help you with other nicely priced in ears, not to say kzs are bad, just don't spend all the money on a media player and none on earphones




Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely check the Havi B3 out. But as for the music player, it sells for as low as 50$ on AliExpress. So it isn't that expensive. And I do need one cause my phone's battery life sucks.

Sorry if I went OT.


----------



## Ruben123

nocturnalbeast said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely check the Havi B3 out. But as for the music player, it sells for as low as 50$ on AliExpress. So it isn't that expensive. And I do need one cause my phone's battery life sucks.




I'll pm you a suggestion for a good media player for cheap. While I didn't know it was 50 only, a Havi costs as much and is a much better investment I think.


----------



## chickenmoon

ruben123 said:


> I would go with A MUCH cheaper music player (have a mobile phone?) And better earphones. Havi B3s are hard to skip and are excellent. Others might help you with other nicely priced in ears, not to say kzs are bad, just don't spend all the money on a media player and none on earphones




I am of the opposite opinion. I think it's worth investing first in as good source hardware as one can afford and only then begin the earphone upgrade/sidegrade game starting with cheap ones in order not to waste too much money finding one's preferred signature/tonal balance. This way your source is not the quality bottleneck (at least for a while) and you are in a position in where, unlike many here, you can actually judge and fully appreciate sound quality differences between tiers.


----------



## Ruben123

chickenmoon said:


> I am of the opposite opinion. I think it's worth investing first in as good source hardware as one can afford and only then begin the earphone upgrade/sidegrade game starting with cheap ones in order not to waste too much money finding one's preferred signature/tonal balance. This way your source is not the quality bottleneck (at least for a while) and you are in a position in where, unlike many here, you can actually judge and fully appreciate sound quality differences between tiers.


 

 There is some truth in there but most sources are good enough, and you get much more music quality with a good earphone and good (most sources are good) media player than with a few budget in-ears although they are quite some fun...


----------



## Saoshyant

LaughMoreDaily I'd imagine you might have a bit of a treble sensitivity, which if that's the case can keep you from listening to various wonderful headphones & earphones for the sake of comfort. I personally have never heard anything where the treble causes discomfort, so maybe I have a little bit of a hearing issue in the higher ranges.


----------



## kokakolia

saoshyant said:


> @LaughMoreDaily I'd imagine you might have a bit of a treble sensitivity, which if that's the case can keep you from listening to various wonderful headphones & earphones for the sake of comfort. I personally have never heard anything where the treble causes discomfort, so maybe I have a little bit of a hearing issue in the higher ranges.


 
 Having lurked head-fi for years, I think it's the other way around:
  
 You have a problem if you're sensitive to treble. 
  
 Many headphones which have exaggerated/bright/peaky treble receive overwhelmingly positive reviews. Here are some examples:
  
 - Superlux HD 681
 - Audio Technica M50x
 - Beyerdynamic Dt770
 - Grado Sr60/Sr80 etc...
 - Koss KSC 75
 - Koss Porta Pro
 - JVC FX40
  
 I live it as a curse, because other headphones with quieter treble get mixed reviews and are ignored:
  
 - Philips M1 (must-buy headphones for treble-phobes, this headphone is decently priced under $80 and packs a lot of detail)
 - Sony MDR-1R (before you disagree, this headphone often compared unfavorably to the Audio Technica M50x or the Sennheiser Momentum at the time)
 - Skullcandy Navigator (this headphone puts KZ IEMS to shame because it's only $24 on amazon right now and you get a lot more for your money)


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> Having lurked head-fi for years, I think it's the other way around:
> 
> You have a problem if you're sensitive to treble.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You'd probably like the Brainwavz M100 or BeB Model 1001. Both have nice, mellow treble. Model 1001 does a better job with detail retrieval and has a monster of a soundstage too. It's kinda the exact opposite of what I normally like, but it's grown on me quite a bit.


----------



## Lorspeaker

i enjoy the ZST more than the Havi on my Xduoo player... ZST sounded more spacious..more lively.


----------



## nocturnalbeast

lorspeaker said:


> i enjoy the ZST more than the Havi on my Xduoo player... ZST sounded more spacious..more lively.




So does that mean ZST has a better presentation of sound? Cause I checked on the Havi and they are routed to be neutral with a slight bass tilt. I prefer more v-shaped sound.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

chickenmoon said:


> I am of the opposite opinion. I think it's worth investing first in as good source hardware as one can afford and only then begin the earphone upgrade/sidegrade game starting with cheap ones in order not to waste too much money finding one's preferred signature/tonal balance. This way your source is not the quality bottleneck (at least for a while) and you are in a position in where, unlike many here, you can actually judge and fully appreciate sound quality differences between tiers.


 
 That's good in practice, but it seems like a hard thing to achieve: finding the right player for one's budget. Sure, it's harder to find the right sound of headphones, but everyone seems to love their music player, whatever brand it is. 
  
 I just bought a Benjie S5 but wish I purchased a Colorful C3, not just because of the name but because now I realize people seem to like the Colorful C3 more. 
  
 However, Benjie S5 has a more active HeadFi forum, so I bought that one... Not a huge loss, only $28.00 vs. the $200+ I spent in headphones. Lol.
  
 I might be the craziest for the perfect budget sound.


----------



## Lorspeaker

nocturnalbeast said:


> So does that mean ZST has a better presentation of sound? Cause I checked on the Havi and they are routed to be neutral with a slight bass tilt. I prefer more v-shaped sound.




The attack of the notes on the Havi is slightly more rounded/honeyed..can be v pleasant for latenite destressing.
Zst sounded more "real" to my ears..more spacious/dispersed/immersed..taller...
Probably more "being there"?
(Using Laura Fygi 's voice for a quick compare )

Bass-wise..both are on par as to quantity..

Dun shoot me Havilovers...i aint tat good at describing sound..haa


----------



## MrNick

Purchased the kz atr. It cost me what a big Mac meal with large fries would. 

I've poopooed the budget phones since getting into this hobby. These iems are fantastic for the price. They compete directly with the aurisonics forte (not a very good iem at all, can't even sell for 1/4 price, but still...). The have smidge of clarity and decent bass depth, but the one aspect that makes them truly stand out is the layering. No budget headphone I've tried at this point layers well at well, but these hint at it, for $8!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

$8?  More like $4 if you know where to look.  Really impressive for the price, nevertheless.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

sometechnoob said:


> $8?  More like $4 if you know where to look.  Really impressive for the price, nevertheless.


 
 The Used section on this forum? Lol.


----------



## To.M

Gearbest


----------



## SomeTechNoob

to.m said:


> Gearbest



^^

Probably not worth selling something so cheap anyway lol.


----------



## wgrish7

I just got the ATE's. Pre-burn in impression: bad, really bad. Headache bad.
 I am coming from the OSTRY KC06 and Takstar 2050's.
 The ATE's have more bass than both, and that is the only thing that may be better or worse, depending on what you want.
 Highs and Mids on the ATE's are pushed back, sounding muddy, comparing to the other two.
 So far: ATE < 2050 < KC06.
 I will update after burn-in.


----------



## loomisjohnson

finally got my kzts and did some initial listening. otob, they show two noteworthy qualities--first, isolation is exceptional, like being buried in a crypt. second, they have very good layering/instrument separation across a very wide stage. tonally (without extensive burn-in), pretty impressive--substantially more high end extension and detail than the zs3 and well tuned, tight bass. very preliminarily, these do seem like quite a step forward for kz--will lock in to more defintive impressions with further listening.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> finally got my kzts and did some initial listening. otob, they show two noteworthy qualities--first, isolation is exceptional, like being buried in a crypt. second, *they have very good layering/instrument separation across a very wide stage*. tonally (without extensive burn-in), pretty impressive--substantially more high end extension and detail than the zs3 and well tuned, tight bass. very preliminarily, these do seem like quite a step forward for kz--will lock in to more defintive impressions with further listening.


 
  
 That what has been most impressive about them for me. A nice step above everything else KZ currently offers in that regard especially.


----------



## gemmoglock

loomisjohnson said:


> finally got my kzts and did some initial listening. otob, they show two noteworthy qualities--first, isolation is exceptional, like being buried in a crypt. second, they have very good layering/instrument separation across a very wide stage. tonally (without extensive burn-in), pretty impressive--substantially more high end extension and detail than the zs3 and well tuned, tight bass. very preliminarily, these do seem like quite a step forward for kz--will lock in to more defintive impressions with further listening.


 
   
 Which ZSTs did you get? The purple or original ones? The last time I demoed original ones the treble was around the same as ZS3 but much poorer bass control. Thinking whether to give them a shot again...
  
 Quote:


chickenmoon said:


> I am of the opposite opinion. I think it's worth investing first in as good source hardware as one can afford and only then begin the earphone upgrade/sidegrade game starting with cheap ones in order not to waste too much money finding one's preferred signature/tonal balance. This way your source is not the quality bottleneck (at least for a while) and you are in a position in where, unlike many here, you can actually judge and fully appreciate sound quality differences between tiers.


  

 Haha that is why now I am on a Shanling M1 and can't afford to do anything major on my IEMs....
  


b9scrambler said:


> That what has been most impressive about them for me. A nice step above everything else KZ currently offers in that regard especially.


 
  
 Looking forward to that Fiio F1 review you have in that signature


----------



## MrNick

sometechnoob said:


> $8?  More like $4 if you know where to look.  Really impressive for the price, nevertheless.



Amazon. :/


----------



## B9Scrambler

gemmoglock said:


> Looking forward to that Fiio F1 review you have in that signature




It'll likely be a few more weeks before I get to that review. Archeer due this Friday, Audbos the following week, and then FiiO the next. 

That said, if you want to know anything about them in the meantime feel free to PM any questions. Just keep in mind that I've only put a few hours on them so I haven't really formulated much of an opinion.


----------



## Singleton

I've ordered both the Vivo XE800 and the KZ HD9 on Aliexpress. Once they both arrive and after some burn in time I'll let fellow Head-Fi'ers know about how the XE800 and the HD9 compares with each other in detail in terms of build quality, design, comfort and sound quality with the use of the Topping NX2 Amp and DAC (with and without), Toshiba Satellite P850, Samsung Galaxy S7, iPad Air and iPad 3rd Generation.


----------



## Mus1c

mrnick said:


> Purchased the kz atr. It cost me what a big Mac meal with large fries would.
> 
> I've poopooed the budget phones since getting into this hobby. These iems are fantastic for the price. They compete directly with the aurisonics forte (not a very good iem at all, can't even sell for 1/4 price, but still...). The have smidge of clarity and decent bass depth, but the one aspect that makes them truly stand out is the layering. No budget headphone I've tried at this point layers well at well, but these hint at it, for $8!


Do you have burn in the iem cuz it needs to burn in to make sure the sound more pop out.


----------



## Keller1

mrnick said:


> Purchased the kz atr. It cost me what a big Mac meal with large fries would.
> 
> I've poopooed the budget phones since getting into this hobby. These iems are fantastic for the price. They compete directly with the aurisonics forte (not a very good iem at all, can't even sell for 1/4 price, but still...). The have smidge of clarity and decent bass depth, but the one aspect that makes them truly stand out is the layering. No budget headphone I've tried at this point layers well at well, but these hint at it, for $8!


 

 Wait till you try ZSTs


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

KZ ED12's vs KZ ZST vs KZ ZS3?


----------



## Vidal

guywholikeshifi said:


> KZ ED12's vs KZ ZST vs KZ ZS3?


 
  
 If you like brightness and measured bass - ZST
  
 If you prefer slightly darker earphones and more bass - ZS3
  
 If you're a masochist - ED12


----------



## VinceHill24

vidal said:


> If you're a masochist - ED12


 LOL i like the way you describe. That's the only KZ i dislike to the point of hate though i remembered someone said it's good few posts back. Each to their own i guess


----------



## loomisjohnson

> Which ZSTs did you get? The purple or original ones? The last time I demoed original ones the treble was around the same as ZS3 but much poorer bass control. Thinking whether to give them a shot again...


 
 i got the original black ones--i've read there's no difference in tuning from the purple ones, tho there could be batch variations. to my ears i find the zst to have substantially more treble extension/detail than the zs3 and quite good bass control, tho the zs3 have more lowend depth/emphasis. the zst is definitely the more refined tuning, which doesn't mean you'll like it better (i like both). in general, my initial impressions align with the review posted by cinder, which gives them good marks except for  a softness/lack of detail in the midrange--guitars and vox could use a bit more bite and emphasis. that said, i briefly pulled out my fidue a73 and pmv a01ii (two similar form factors) to compare and was surprised at how well the zst fared--the zst sounded just a little flatter in comparison--but considering they're 1/7 of the price the zst was actually pretty close. i'm gonna a/b them with my previous fave, the ed9.


----------



## Vidal

vincehill24 said:


> LOL i like the way you describe. That's the only KZ i dislike to the point of hate though i remembered someone said it's good few posts back. Each to their own i guess


 
  
 I really tried to find something I liked about the ED12 and as such I came up without any answers.
  
 ZST is a solid hybrid effort
 ZS3 is a great listen, technically there are better but I love 'em
  
 It's almost as though the ED12 was meant to be the more mid tuned earphone and its just a complete dogs dinner. Unfortunately for me when our whippet decided to chew a pair he went for the Kinera BD05 rather than the ED12.


----------



## kokakolia

vincehill24 said:


> LOL i like the way you describe. That's the only KZ i dislike to the point of hate though i remembered someone said it's good few posts back. Each to their own i guess


 
 Please explain the ED12, what's wrong with it?


----------



## rad7

Can the ZSTs sound good without an amplifier?


----------



## VinceHill24

kokakolia said:


> Please explain the ED12, what's wrong with it?


If memory serves me right, the overall sound of the ED12 is off with unnaturally forward midrange coupled with a treble that is rolled off too much that makes music sounded dull. The bass probably is the better presented ones overall with good amount of punch (seems like ED series tuning)though lacking depth and a little too much on midbass. Midrange particularly vocals sounded closed & congested, lacking openness which makes the clarity suffers a lot. Not too sure how others think of it but as usual YMMV and it's been too long since i last heard it.


----------



## rad7

It is really confusing why KZ launched the colorful version. It would have been nice if they told us if they just made a cosmetic change or if they really changed the sound signature. While many people say that both versions sound the same, few are saying that the latter batches of the colorful ZSTs sound different (for example - https://goo.gl/J0iyeE ). On Gearbest, only the original version of the ZST is under discount now and so is a little cheaper than the colorful version.


----------



## crabdog

rad7 said:


> Can the ZSTs sound good without an amplifier?


 
 Absolutely, yes.


----------



## rad7

crabdog said:


> Absolutely, yes.


 
 Thank you!


----------



## Ruben123

rad7 said:


> Thank you!




I think audiophilia, to call it like a disease, totally ruins this hobby for most users without them even knowing. We are talking about an in ear monitor, of course you do not need an amplifier, though there are a very few exceptions. Of course your source should be loud enough but these earphones are made (!) to be used on everyday phones, notebooks etc.
It really makes me sad.


----------



## rad7

ruben123 said:


> I think audiophilia, to call it like a disease, totally ruins this hobby for most users without them even knowing. We are talking about an in ear monitor, of course you do not need an amplifier, though there are a very few exceptions. Of course your source should be loud enough but these earphones are made (!) to be used on everyday phones, notebooks etc.
> It really makes me sad.


 
 You are right. It's just that I am new to the audiophile world and just want to buy some good, cheap earphones. And then I get overwhelmed by all the different opinions and reviews. I was about to buy these on amazon when a reviewer, who seems to know what he is talking about says this:
  


> _ THE 'COLORFUL ZST' IS EXCELLENT ON A SUFFICIENTLY POWERED SOURCE!
> If you plan on hooking these up to your phone or an efficient DAP (20+ hrs of playback time) you'll miss out on the best that these have to offer. You'll miss the fullness and rumble in the low end which is the whole point of the DD in this hybrid. In addition, you will get slightly more__low end__ grunt with stock cables if that's your preference._


 


> _ Playing the ZST through a smartphone or power efficient DAP will result in the lack of the incredibly clean and FULL low end. This means he/she will mostly hear frequencies ranging from 100hz to 20,000hz (everything below 80hz will seem vaguely absent) and then he/she will complain that the ZST doesn't have enough bass. Don't be a __softhead__! Play the ZST through an amplified source. If you don't have an amplified source you should pick up the KZ ED9. Yes, I may be coming across a bit rough, but I do it because I want you to remember this part of the review. A word to the wise is sufficient._


 
 Full review here: https://goo.gl/J0iyeE


----------



## Vidal

vincehill24 said:


> If memory serves me right, the overall sound of the ED12 is off with unnaturally forward midrange coupled with a treble that is rolled off too much that makes music sounded dull. The bass probably is the better presented ones overall with good amount of punch (seems like ED series tuning)though lacking depth and a little too much on midbass. Midrange particularly vocals sounded closed & congested, lacking openness which makes the clarity suffers a lot. Not too sure how others think of it but as usual YMMV and it's been too long since i last heard it.


 
  
 Kudos for attempting to see figure out what was wrong with the sound.


----------



## Vidal

rad7 said:


> You are right. It's just that I am new to the audiophile world and just want to buy some good, cheap earphones. And then I get overwhelmed by all the different opinions and reviews. I was about to buy these on amazon when a reviewer, who seems to know what he is talking about says this:
> 
> Full review here: https://goo.gl/J0iyeE


 
  
 Wow that's not a review that's a novel, someone who likes the sound of his own voice me thinks. Its a fundamentally flawed review as the ZST simply doesn't need a amp.


----------



## Ruben123

rad7 said:


> You are right. It's just that I am new to the audiophile world and just want to buy some good, cheap earphones. And then I get overwhelmed by all the different opinions and reviews. I was about to buy these on amazon when a reviewer, who seems to know what he is talking about says this:
> 
> Full review here: https://goo.gl/J0iyeE




Years ago, audio was about loving the music. To day it is about making as much money as possible on people who have no clue about anything but just buy it because it looks cool or is said to be better. For instance $1000 cables of a few inches or, completely crazy, the use of stickers on a $4000 music player. I'm going way too off topic here but anyone could agree that stickers can't change the sound. The audio market is sick, ill, diseased.


----------



## rad7

vidal said:


> Wow that's not a review that's a novel, someone who likes the sound of his own voice me thinks. Its a fundamentally flawed review as the ZST simply doesn't need a amp.


 
 That's what I thought. Even though I am an audiophile noob, I knew that most IEMs & especially this one, which has an impedance of just 18 ohms may not need an amp. Then I see a review like this!


----------



## rad7

ruben123 said:


> Years ago, audio was about loving the music. To day it is about making as much money as possible on people who have no clue about anything but just buy it because it looks cool or is said to be better. For instance $1000 cables of a few inches or, completely crazy, the use of stickers on a $4000 music player. I'm going way too off topic here but anyone could agree that stickers can't change the sound. The audio market is sick, ill, diseased.


 
 Again you are right. But then there are forums like this which are incredibly helpful in guiding someone like me to not fall victim to those marketing gimmicks. I bought my first two audiophile-grade headphones after getting advice from this forum & I love them. So, I guess all hope is not lost.


----------



## TrixtonSk8

While IEMs do not require amplification, in many cases, adding an amplifier can help to round out the sound or fill out certain frequency ranges, it's not just about the _volume_.  More importantly for IEMs, the DAC can and will change the sound fairly significantly, even for budget level IEMs.  While there are people in the audio community that are quite deluded, it doesn't justify the wholesale write-off of the use of amplification for efficient headphones.  Similarly, many efficient headphones sound nice out of everyday devices, but that doesn't mean they can't sound better with a nicer chain.


----------



## Vidal

trixtonsk8 said:


> While IEMs do not require amplification, in many cases, adding an amplifier can help to round out the sound or fill out certain frequency ranges, it's not just about the _volume_.  More importantly for IEMs, the DAC can and will change the sound fairly significantly, even for budget level IEMs.  While there are people in the audio community that are quite deluded, it doesn't justify the wholesale write-off of the use of amplification for efficient headphones.  Similarly, many efficient headphones sound nice out of everyday devices, but that doesn't mean they can't sound better with a nicer chain.


 
  
 Respectfully disagree, especially relating to highly efficient IEMs as an amp will probably add hum. My Cozoy Aegis dac which isn't the most powerful dac/amp adds some hum with the ZST as does my Little Dot on it's lowest configuration.
  
 Dacs are good tool when working with a phone with ropey output and a DAP with an EQ can help. Amps are completely the wrong tool


----------



## TrixtonSk8

vidal said:


> Respectfully disagree, especially relating to highly efficient IEMs as an amp will probably add hum. My Cozoy Aegis dac which isn't the most powerful dac/amp adds some hum with the ZST as does my Little Dot on it's lowest configuration.
> 
> Dacs are good tool when working with a phone with ropey output and a DAP with an EQ can help. Amps are completely the wrong tool


 
  
 I would say it depends on the setup...


----------



## Vidal

trixtonsk8 said:


> I would say it depends on the setup...


 
  
 Please give us a specific example so I can see what you're talking about.
  
 At the moment you're suggesting someone should buy an amplifier to improve the sound of a $15 highly efficient IEM, I'd really like to understand the setup where that makes sense.


----------



## Ruben123

trixtonsk8 said:


> While IEMs do not require amplification, in many cases, adding an amplifier can help to round out the sound or fill out certain frequency ranges, it's not just about the _volume_.  More importantly for IEMs, the DAC can and will change the sound fairly significantly, even for budget level IEMs.  While there are people in the audio community that are quite deluded, it doesn't justify the wholesale write-off of the use of amplification for efficient headphones.  Similarly, many efficient headphones sound nice out of everyday devices, but that doesn't mean they can't sound better with a nicer chain.




An amplifier *amplifies* the signal. If it does more, it does something it shouldn't do or is broken.


----------



## TrixtonSk8

vidal said:


> Please give us a specific example so I can see what you're talking about.
> 
> At the moment you're suggesting someone should buy an amplifier to improve the sound of a $15 highly efficient IEM, I'd really like to understand the setup where that makes sense.


 
  
 Is that what I said?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I already have amp/DACs at my disposal.  I never suggested anyone buy an amplifier...  There are some very broad generalizations being made in this thread, I was simply attempting to curb the anti-audiophile zealotry.  You certainly don't need an amplifier for good sound from budget IEMs (as I stated).  If your amp produces a hum when using your headphone with it, don't use it, pretty simple.  _All _of my headphones sound different out of my phone, Ruizu DAP, Fiio E17k amp/DAC, and Magni/Modi stack.  The resultant sound depends on both the chain and the headphone being used, not just the efficiency of the IEM.


----------



## B9Scrambler

trixtonsk8 said:


> While IEMs do not require amplification, in many cases, adding an amplifier can help to round out the sound or fill out certain frequency ranges, it's not just about the _volume_.  More importantly for IEMs, the DAC can and will change the sound fairly significantly, even for budget level IEMs.  While there are people in the audio community that are quite deluded, it doesn't justify the wholesale write-off of the use of amplification for efficient headphones.  Similarly, many efficient headphones sound nice out of everyday devices, but that doesn't mean they can't sound better with a nicer chain.


 
  
 I'm with you on this. Amps aren't added into my chain for volume because I listen at such a low level typically, but to change the sound signature leading into the earphone. For example, the stock signature of my HTC One M8 is a little warm. The stock signature of my Motorola Moto G is quite bright. Using the ZST through either of those leads to various aspects of it's stock signature being emphasized or de-emphasized. Add in the NX1 which has a pretty neutral sound, and it lessens those differences. Different devices have differing signatures.


----------



## Podster

ruben123 said:


> Years ago, audio was about loving the music. To day it is about making as much money as possible on people who have no clue about anything but just buy it because it looks cool or is said to be better. For instance $1000 cables of a few inches or, completely crazy, the use of stickers on a $4000 music player. I'm going way too off topic here but anyone could agree that stickers can't change the sound. The audio market is sick, ill, diseased.


 

 Oh come on now Ruben, they could be magic stickers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Everyone remember the magic stones http://www.stereotimes.com/acc120211.shtml 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've often wondered just how much R&D can go into a 5 foot piece of copper
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My personal limit has always been $50 because at $50.01 I start to become skeptical
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure wish my colored ZST's would get here


----------



## Podster

trixtonsk8 said:


> Is that what I said?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So true, so true on that amp sound thang
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now source is a whole nutta story
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (We not even going to mention file quality)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've never needed an amp on this setup


----------



## Vidal

Quote:



> Is that what I said?



  
  
 You said
  
 Quote:


trixtonsk8 said:


> While IEMs do not require amplification, in many cases, adding an amplifier can help to round out the sound or fill out certain frequency ranges, it's not just about the _volume_.  it doesn't justify the wholesale write-off of the use of amplification for efficient headphones


 
  
 The discussion in context was the ZST (amazon review) stating it needed an amp to sound good. They don't need an amp and if you want to improve the sound quality a DAC/DAP is better investment. Based on your follow up I'm now guessing your comment had no relation to the ongoing discussion and you just jumped in without reading the context? My apologies for thinking your comments were relevant and my mistake was believing you were adding something to the points being discussed at the time. I hope your crusade against 'anti-audiophile zealotry goes well.
  
 My view is that using an amp to alter/improve the sound of low impedance IEM is like cutting your hair with a stanley knife, scissors (DAC) or trimmers (DAP) are better tools for that. Especially when you consider some amps will add noise.


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> My view is that using an amp to alter/improve the sound of low impedance IEM is like cutting your hair with a stanley knife, scissors (DAC) or trimmers (DAP) are better tools for that. Especially when you consider some amps will add noise.




Well, a DAC needs an amp and many DAPs have a line out output setting, I wonder why this is...? :rolleyes:


----------



## stuck limo

I got some KZ ZS3 today. Can anyone recommend a good replacement FOAM eartip? The silicone rubber that comes stock hurt my ears and I'm having a real hard time getting a good fit.


----------



## Vidal

chickenmoon said:


> Well, a DAC needs an amp and many DAPs have a line out output setting, I wonder why this is...?


 
  
 With low impedance IEMs I genuinely can't think of any DAC that does need an amp. Fiio K1 doesn't, Chord Mojo doesn't, Dragonfly doesn't, Meridan Explorer doesn't.
  
 DAP has a line out (setting) because people connect them to home HiFi, Car HiFi or to an amp when they have higher impedance headphones such as AKG K701, Senn HD600 etc.
  
 I hope that helps with the wondering


----------



## wgrish7

I use these:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-Pairs-4-Pieces-Comply-T200-Earphone-Tips-Memory-Foam-Sponge-Ear-Pads-For-4-0mm/32725601009.html
  
 I use them because one of my ear canals are not like the other, and silicon tips hurt.


----------



## Montyburns

wgrish7 said:


> I use these:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-Pairs-4-Pieces-Comply-T200-Earphone-Tips-Memory-Foam-Sponge-Ear-Pads-For-4-0mm/32725601009.html
> 
> I use them because one of my ear canals are not like the other, and silicon tips hurt.


 
  
*Comply** **TX-400 Isolation Plus Ear Tips. I also use the Comfort version. Night and day from silicone tips. *


----------



## stuck limo

montyburns said:


> *Comply** **TX-400 Isolation Plus Ear Tips. I also use the Comfort version. Night and day from silicone tips. *


 
  
 OK, I see on Amazon they have the Comfort Plus series and the Comfort Series. Any major differences? What's the diff between Isolation and Comfort series?


----------



## wgrish7

Isolation tips are longer, going further into your ear canal, thus "isolating" more. I found that comforts don't hold in my ears well.


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> With low impedance IEMs I genuinely can't think of any DAC that does need an amp. Fiio K1 doesn't, Chord Mojo doesn't, Dragonfly doesn't, Meridan Explorer doesn't.




All those are actually integrated DAC/Amplifier units if I am not mistaken...



			
				Vidal said:
			
		

> DAP has a line out (setting) because people connect them to home HiFi, Car HiFi or to an amp when they have higher impedance headphones such as AKG K701, Senn HD600 etc.




Or maybe also for those people who want a higher quality amplification than the built-in amplifier stage their DAP provides...



			
				Vidal said:
			
		

> I hope that helps with the wondering




Rhetorical question as you've certainly noticed...


----------



## B9Scrambler

Can this just stop please. Jesus...


----------



## Vidal

chickenmoon said:


> All those are actually integrated DAC/Amplifier units if I am not mistaken...
> Or maybe also for those people who want a higher quality amplification than the built-in amplifier stage their DAP provides...
> Rhetorical question as you've certainly noticed...


 
  
 Context to this discussion -
  
 * Amazon reviewer says KZ ZST needs a amp to fill out it's sound
  
 I'm saying that it doesn't need an amp and that if you're trying to fill out/improve the sound then a DAC or decent DAP would be a better investment.
  
 Not aware of any dac that doesn't have an integrated amplifier in some form, even one that outputs to phono has to have some sort of amplifier to output as an analogue signal. Maybe I've missed it but please name a few?


----------



## To.M

Shoo, off you go people and listen to some music! ...with or without an amp at your discretion


----------



## stuck limo

wgrish7 said:


> Isolation tips are longer, going further into your ear canal, thus "isolating" more. I found that comforts don't hold in my ears well.


 
  
 That's what I was worried about --- not holding. I got some Isolation tips to see how they work. Thanks for the help.


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> Context to this discussion -
> 
> * Amazon reviewer says KZ ZST needs a amp to fill out it's sound
> 
> ...




You should connect line out to any line in but not phono which has a preamplifier stage and is for use for signals coming from turntables if I am not mistaken.

Most if not all high end standalone DAC as well pro-grade PC soundcards don't have built-in amplifiers, they just convert a digital signal to an electrical one which gets amplified in another device you connect them to, for example my lovely ESI Juli@ card.

Context to this discussion is also all the crazy statements made by Ruben in the last few pages...

As for the ZST issue, I've decommissioned mine as well as most of my other KZs it because they don't hold a candle to my better IEMs on my desktop setup, they scale up OK on lower end devices where my better IEMs can't fully express their potential however. YMMV.


----------



## Ruben123

Take over this discussion to the Sound Science board -which none of you would actually- and discuss further over there. The many audio engineers etc. who post over there would be happy to explain and not find my statements to be crazy at all chickenmoon...


----------



## Vidal

chickenmoon said:


> You should connect line out to any line in but not phono which has a preamplifier stage and is for use for signals coming from turntables if I am not mistaken.
> 
> Most if not all high end standalone DAC as well pro-grade PC soundcards don't have built-in amplifiers, they just convert a digital signal to an electrical one which gets amplified in another device you connect them to, for example my lovely ESI Juli@ card.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The gold line outs on that card are 'RCA phono sockets' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector 
  
 So you're following Ruben round trashing his opinions with nothing to add to the discussion? Grow up! Nothing Ruben has said seems crazy to me but you're behaviour certainly seems that way.


----------



## chickenmoon

ruben123 said:


> Take over this discussion to the Sound Science board -which none of you would actually- and discuss further over there. The many audio engineers etc. who post over there would be happy to explain and not find my statements to be crazy at all chickenmoon...




What I find crazy is that you say that all sources are good enough, you just need good earphones invoking thousands dollars cables craze and the like to dismiss the notion that better source and amplication hardware yelds better sound from some earphones but perhaps i have completely misread you.


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> The gold line outs on that card are 'RCA phono sockets' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector




They might be called like that but if you look in the back of any integrated amp or receiver you'l see plenty of those RCA sockets with generally only a pair of them being an actual phono socket.


----------



## BWAS1000

ED10s use 6mm nozzles. I found some Foam tips on Amazon. About $9 for 6 pairs.

Should the 5mm tips fit the ED10, and if I use the small tips on the ED10, and every other IEM I use, ever, should I get the small tips there too?


----------



## Lotmom

Hello Head-Fi'ers! I recently bought a pair of KZ ZST Candy Edition headphones, here are my impressions.
  
 First, I'll start with the negatives, But don't get me wrong, I quite like these IEMs. firstly, The cables can be extremely hard to unplug from the earpieces, which for a removeable cable, kinda defeats the purpose. To some, these IEMs look a little Gaudy, but I won't really consider that a negative as it is all opinion. and the last thing, which really is just a gripe, is that there are no markings on the actual earpieces for Left or Right, which can be a little confusing.
  
 Now for the positives. Let me preface this; these are my first pair of "good" IEMs. I've listened to the cheapest of the cheap all the way to the slightly less cheap of the cheap, but I have to say, these are the best I have owned. The bass is nice and punchy, the trebles are not too harsh, but very well defined. They drive quite well from my phone (Lg G3) and even better from my DAP (Fiio X1). I am in the process of tracking down my lost Fiio E11 amp, and will put up an update when I find it. I do find that sometimes higher (freddie Mercury) and slightly lower vocals can be a bit recessed, but nothing too bad.
  
 Overall, for the $22CAD I payed for these, they are an absolute steal!


----------



## rad7

lotmom said:


> Hello Head-Fi'ers! I recently bought a pair of KZ ZST Candy Edition headphones, here are my impressions.
> 
> First, I'll start with the negatives, But don't get me wrong, I quite like these IEMs. firstly, The cables can be extremely hard to unplug from the earpieces, which for a removeable cable, kinda defeats the purpose. To some, these IEMs look a little Gaudy, but I won't really consider that a negative as it is all opinion. and the last thing, which really is just a gripe, is that there are no markings on the actual earpieces for Left or Right, which can be a little confusing.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your review! I ordered mine today, paid $20 on Amazon. It is cheaper by $3 on Gearbest, but I did not want to wait for 3 weeks to get them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I am also a bit worried about the color of these, hope they are not too gaudy. I've heard many people complain about the stock cable too. KZ sells an upgraded cable that is supposed to be better (https://goo.gl/4fm1L7), but I think it doesn't make sense to spend another $8 for the cable. The whole point of most KZ headphones is to buy the best bang-for-the-buck i.e.m.s out there.


----------



## ricemanhk

rad7 said:


> Thank you for your review! I ordered mine today, paid $20 on Amazon. It is cheaper by $3 on Gearbest, but I did not want to wait for 3 weeks to get them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Acoustically the upgraded cables don't sound that different to the stock ones.  But comfort-wise they are indeed better than the stock, and for $8 bucks still pretty cheap as a spare cable to use when the stock one breaks, which it will eventually.  Getting it as a bundle is usually cheaper than getting it separately later, and I haven't seen too many places sell the stock cable as a stand-alone replacement item.  For your reference, on their taobao store the ZST stock cable w/mic is listed for 20 RMB (2.9 USD) vs 55 RMB (8 USD) for the silver one.


----------



## khighly

mus1c said:


> Does This iem is better than the expensive iem like sennheiser,byerdyanamic,or etc.. Cuz your description on zst colorful is just pissing me off,does the sound really good? Or better than campfire audio layla huh?


 


 I can't really comment on those headphones since I don't have any and likely never will.

 However, if someone tells you that the ZST's are bad, they're deaf or lying.

 If you spend a week lisltening to the ZST's, your brain will turn them into priceless IEM's. I just tried with Pearl Jam - Soon Forget again and by the end of the first song with my eyes closed I could easily well which way his head was moving and the intricate reflections off of different parts of the ear. It really is wild.

 I'd be interested in blind tests of the ZST versus something comparable in sound signature in the Campfire Audio line.


----------



## zabunny94

podster said:


> Oh come on now Ruben, they could be magic stickers:rolleyes: Everyone remember the magic stones http://www.stereotimes.com/acc120211.shtml :blink: I've often wondered just how much R&D can go into a 5 foot piece of copperh34r: My personal limit has always been $50 because at $50.01 I start to become skeptical I sure wish my colored ZST's would get here




Just a while ago, someone in Indonesian audio group saw a store repackaged ZST and rename it as Z2C and price it at around $55(IDR 750.000). Its not even an official rebrand, just taking out ZST from its package, print a cardboard box with"hi res" logo(I suspect illegally) and call it a day.

What's even funnier is that same store also sells qkz w1 pro for $20, even though you can get it locally for $5. And you can get blocked in their instagram if you mention KZ ZST


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> I can't really comment on those headphones since I don't have any and likely never will.
> 
> 
> However, if someone tells you that the ZST's are bad, they're deaf or lying.
> ...


since you say that i will buy the zst.


----------



## Lotmom

I can't believe I forgot this, but I bought these from Penon audio! Arrived at my front door within a week and a half, and even came with a little penon Velcro strap! I'd highly suggest getting them from there


----------



## VShaft

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to the "to amp or not to amp" discussion, since I have been in the same situation as the original poster of that question.
  
 To me, the following is indeed the truth: *I do need an amp to make full use of my KZ IEM's*.
  
 Why? Well, because I've got a crappy source. It's a Ruizu X02. And bless the little guy for what it can do, having its pricing in mind. It plays whatever you throw at him, has extendable memory, and a battery that lasts forever. It can drive any IEM loud enough, but leaves a lot wanting in the sound quality department. Only I didn't know that at first.
  
 I bought my first ever KZ, an ATE-S, and plugged it un-amped to my Ruizu. It sounded okay. Definitely better than my previous IEM. A couple of days later I plugged them into my laptop for the first time, and whoa! A night and day difference - and that's with whatever basic DAC HP put in there. I was blown away, and realized how bad my poor Ruizu sounded.
  
 So I did some searching, and eventually got to *FiiO A1*. I bought it as the most affordable solution to my immediate needs.
  
 Again, the most basic of amps. And yet, again a night and day difference when paired with the Ruizu. The A1 is amp only (no DAC), and I know amps should not alter the sound signature. But, the FiiO does that to an extent, which in turn makes my Ruizu sound smoother and fuller (I don't know how to describe sound in proper terms yet). The bass has more presence, is finally actually felt, the mids are more pleasant, and the highs are not as harsh. The whole sound signature is simply - better. Personally, I'd never go back to listening the Ruizu un-amped. It's torture. The A1 makes a difference even on the laptop, though less noticeable.
  
 I know, it's obvious that what I really need here is a better DAP, and I also realize that on a multi-hundred dollar DAPs/audio setups there's no need for amps. But, frankly, I don't think there are many out there who'd use their $500 DAP with a $5 IEM, so I guess there's a lot more Benjies and Ruizus paired with KZs, than there are iBassos, Aunes and Cayins. And to the former, an affordable portable amp is not a bad investment (and you can always use it even when you upgrade).


----------



## Saoshyant

If you can afford something like the Fiio M3 or xDuoo X2, they're both relatively inexpensive and should be more than sufficient for the task.  I'm sure there are other inexpensive suggestions, too.


----------



## loomisjohnson

b9scrambler said:


> That what has been most impressive about them for me. A nice step above everything else KZ currently offers in that regard especially.


 

 got in a little more listening time with the zst. and can better opine that they are the most technically accomplished kz, in the sense of having the best detail retrieval and layering/soundstage. because they're so immersive, they make even familiar recordings sound fresh and engaging. i do wish that they had more midrange presence--male vox and electric guitars in particular are a bit reticient and lack some body. still, these hold up quite well against the stars of the $30-40 hybrid class. now, i'm still not sure if they'll displace the ed9 as my favorite kz--the ed9 is still the most organic and natural sounding--and the zs3 has less detail/refinement but more oomph, but the zst is definitely on another sonic level than previous releases.


----------



## chompchomps

Look what came in the mail! 

  
 Time to give this a go. Ordered the purple tho. bummer the carbon ones came. If i like it might just order one from gearbest or when theres a sale! 
  
 If anyone is curious or does not know, the silver cables have a memory portion at the usual position. and im glad the KZ came with starline tips pre-installed! 
  
 Loving the soundstage thus far!


----------



## kokakolia

rad7 said:


> The whole point of most KZ headphones is to buy the best bang-for-the-buck i.e.m.s out there.




The whole point of KZ is to make you buy half a dozen (or more...) IEMs and before you know it, you spent a small fortune on cheap IEMs! 

I just bought myself a Marshall Mode for $60 CAD ($50 USD in the US amazon) and blows the ED9s out of the water. 

I mean, $50 isn't a huge expense compared to $15 or $20. It's double or triple, I know. But you get an ergonomic earbud with a neater wire and a big, smooth sound without harshness or overwhelming boomy bass. They're perfect in every way, so $50 is a steal.


----------



## gemmoglock

saoshyant said:


> If you can afford something like the Fiio M3 or xDuoo X2, they're both relatively inexpensive and should be more than sufficient for the task.  I'm sure there are other inexpensive suggestions, too.


 
  
 I personally came from the M3. Love the bulletproof though plain UI though the more expensive Shanling M1 sounds more detailed and doesnt have a 48000hz sampling file limitation. I would recommend saving up longer and jumping straight to xDuoo X10, Shanling M1 or Fiio X1 second gen if possible. Especially for lossless files a decent source is a important start.


kokakolia said:


> The whole point of KZ is to make you buy half a dozen (or more...) IEMs and before you know it, you spent a small fortune on cheap IEMs!
> 
> I just bought myself a Marshall Mode for $60 CAD ($50 USD in the US amazon) and blows the ED9s out of the water.
> 
> I mean, $50 isn't a huge expense compared to $15 or $20. It's double or triple, I know. But you get an ergonomic earbud with a neater wire and a big, smooth sound without harshness or overwhelming boomy bass. They're perfect in every way, so $50 is a steal.


 
  
 Yeah for me I haven't been as trigger happy to try but my ZS3 is starting to lose sound at the left side (suspect loose cable joint in the housing). 
  
 TBH if you guys can demo from friends I also find the Marshall Mode pretty decent. Unoffensive sound, no treble or bass shenanigans but I don't have an association with Marshall and it is not a native over-ear design so not pulling the trigger yet. Similar to my UE400/500 but without the flimsy build quality and still cheaper when comparing new prices.
  
 I just got my KZ ATRs but didn't realise my laptop volume was maxed when I plugged them in  I think there is no damage hopefully?
 A quick listen is that they seem better than the last time I demoed. Also inoffensive fresh out of the box. Coming from the ZS3, the bass/subbass is not missing but less than the ZS3. Sound is less "in your face" and slightly less spatial cues. Will let them do the burn in overnight in case they improve. Seems to be less sensitive to drive compared to the ZS3 too, I hope it is not because I maxed the volume just now...
  
 Edit: quick update, yeah the sound signature is more palatable. Slightly more extended but less natural sounding (not shrill but lacking in texture) for treble. Overall better signature than ZS3 for general listening but if they can make the treble more natural it's pretty good. Only other observation is that ATR being cheaper does not resolve sound at the detail level of the ZS3. But it's really nit-picking, 80-90% of separation and clarity is still there.


----------



## rad7

chompchomps said:


> Look what came in the mail!
> 
> 
> Time to give this a go. Ordered the purple tho. bummer the carbon ones came. If i like it might just order one from gearbest or when theres a sale!
> ...


 
 Hi, did the silver cable come with it's own carrying case or did you buy it separately? I've heard that KZs don't have the best of build qualities and I am wondering about buying a hard shell case.


----------



## Mus1c

rad7 said:


> Hi, did the silver cable come with it's own carrying case or did you buy it separately?


 it doesn't come with the zst you need to buy it separately.


----------



## Mus1c

lotmom said:


> Hello Head-Fi'ers! I recently bought a pair of KZ ZST Candy Edition headphones, here are my impressions.
> 
> First, I'll start with the negatives, But don't get me wrong, I quite like these IEMs. firstly, The cables can be extremely hard to unplug from the earpieces, which for a removeable cable, kinda defeats the purpose. To some, these IEMs look a little Gaudy, but I won't really consider that a negative as it is all opinion. and the last thing, which really is just a gripe, is that there are no markings on the actual earpieces for Left or Right, which can be a little confusing.
> 
> ...


 If you don't like the standard cable i recommend you get the silver cable off aliexpress it put more stylish to the iem and also the sound.


----------



## Mus1c

khighly said:


> I can't really comment on those headphones since I don't have any and likely never will.
> 
> 
> However, if someone tells you that the ZST's are bad, they're deaf or lying.
> ...


But why you said that.This is most branded audio equipment that been use by the professional.Why,cuz you like it cheap?.


----------



## Mus1c

stuck limo said:


> I got some KZ ZS3 today. Can anyone recommend a good replacement FOAM eartip? The silicone rubber that comes stock hurt my ears and I'm having a real hard time getting a good fit.


 Try this tips it might help you fix the problem https://m.de.aliexpress.com/s/item/32342892234.html#autostay


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> Can this just stop please. Jesus...


whyyyyyyyyyyyy....


----------



## Mus1c

OKAY SINCE THIS THREADS HAS A THOUSAND PAGES, I WILL LIKE TO KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS ON KZ IEM EXPERIENCE. PLEASE TELL ANSWER DOWN BELOW IF YOU ARE THE KZ NATION GANG

KZ NATION EXPERIENCE THOUGHTS QUESTIONS:

1.WHAT IS THE MOST YOU LOVE ABOUT KZ IEM?
2.WHERE OR WHEN DO YOU HEAR ABOUT KZ ?
3.WHAT IS THE MOST PREFERRED KZ THAT YOU LIKE ?
4.HOW MANY KZs DO YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW?
5.WHERE DID YOU BUY YOUR KZ?
6.WHAT AUDIO EQUIPMENT DO YOU USE TO LISTEN TO KZ? 
7.ARE WE THE KZ NATION?
8.ARE HYPE FOR NEW IEM(KZ ZSR) COMING OUT ON FEB? 
9.DID YOUR LIKE YOUR KZ? AND WANTED TO BUY MORE OF THEM? 

THANKS FOR ALL WHO PARTICIPATED IN THIS SURVEY THAT I'VE MADE AND I LIKE FOOD BYE.... JUST KIDDING  I MIGHT AS WELL LOVE KZ IEM. 



MUS1C


----------



## chompchomps

rad7 said:


> Hi, did the silver cable come with it's own carrying case or did you buy it separately? I've heard that KZs don't have the best of build qualities and I am wondering about buying a hard shell case.


 
  


mus1c said:


> it doesn't come with the zst you need to buy it separately.


 
  
 Actually the case came as a surprise. i bought the ZST, the cable and 2 sets of starline tips. For some reason the case came with it.
  
 For reference, i bought it from this shop. Just a disclaimer, im not affiliated to this shop for whatever reason. 
  
 https://shop59481728.world.taobao.com/?spm=a312a.7728556.2015080705.3.x2bSRj


----------



## ricemanhk

Yeah, I got that same box with my ZST + upgrade cable from another taobao shop.  Most sellers on taobao throw in freebies, mine came with that box, ear guides and a set of foam tips (really poor ones though).


----------



## Mus1c

chompchomps said:


> Actually the case came as a surprise. i bought the ZST, the cable and 2 sets of starline tips. For some reason the case came with it.
> 
> For reference, i bought it from this shop. Just a disclaimer, im not affiliated to this shop for whatever reason.
> 
> https://shop59481728.world.taobao.com/?spm=a312a.7728556.2015080705.3.x2bSRj


 I think the seller is really generous to give you the case.


----------



## chompchomps

mus1c said:


> I think the seller is really generous to give you the case.


 
  
  I must be really lucky then!


----------



## VinceHill24

Actually the KZ case comes together with the ZST/ZS3 silver cable if i'm not mistaken. Bought from Taobao, i see most sellers there includes the case when you buy the silver cable.


----------



## Vidal

vincehill24 said:


> Actually the KZ case comes together with the ZST/ZS3 silver cable if i'm not mistaken. Bought from Taobao, i see most sellers there includes the case when you buy the silver cable.


 
  
 The case wasn't included with the one I bought. Also the ZS3 cable I sourced didn't fit the ZST fully.


----------



## CoiL

lorspeaker said:


> i enjoy the ZST more than the Havi on my Xduoo player... ZST sounded more spacious..more lively.


 
 And lets not forget VERY important fact that Havi B3P1 NEEDS AMP to sound as it should. From smartphone or cheaper DAP it sounds pretty much mediocre.
  
 Quote:


wgrish7 said:


> I just got the ATE's. Pre-burn in impression: bad, really bad. Headache bad.
> I am coming from the OSTRY KC06 and Takstar 2050's.
> The ATE's have more bass than both, and that is the only thing that may be better or worse, depending on what you want.
> Highs and Mids on the ATE's are pushed back, sounding muddy, comparing to the other two.
> ...


 
 What version ATE Your got? S? 3rd gen? Port holes are open or closed? What is Your source gear and music preference?
 5th gen ATE highs are slightly smoothed but detailed and not pushed back or sounding muddy, neither the mids - which are strong point of ATE actually.
 Maybe You are just used with brighter and more V-shaped signature with closer/intimate imaging?
  


vshaft said:


> ...so I guess there's a lot more Benjies and Ruizus paired with KZs, than there are iBassos, Aunes and Cayins.


 
 I pair my KZs with DX5X (hardware modified DX50) and Aune T1 (hardware modified + expensive HQ tube). Thought about going Cayin amp too.
 I agree, amp can make a big difference. Simplest example is probably B3P1 but there are some in KZ family that will improve - ATE, ATR, ANV. Each to certain extent of c ourse.
 And it`s not all about volume, sometimes some IEMs "wake up" because of extra juice (mA) they get. Some frequencies will "wake up" with amping, not just because amp "colors" outcoming sound.
 I`ve changed opamps on my DX50 and more juice makes difference. Believe it or not


----------



## VinceHill24

vidal said:


> The case wasn't included with the one I bought. Also the ZS3 cable I sourced didn't fit the ZST fully.


Hmm, that's weird. Maybe it was quite some time since i last bought the ZS3 silver cable so probably they didn't include now. The ZS3 cable can't fit fully into the ZST because the groove that the connection terminates are different on both ZST & ZS3 though both are using 2 pin connections. Anyway the cable quality is quite good, reminds me of my ex TFZ Series 1s cable.


----------



## Keller1

Got a second pair of ZSTs in the mail just now.
  
 0 sonic difference from my first ZST. [Checkered/Regular Cable] vs [Rainbow/ Silvered Cable]
  
 Im happy cause the cable is much nicer and they dont have the annoying crackle upon insertion.


----------



## jkaudio

Hallo,
 new KZ ZST arrived on monday. All good.
  
 But today I want to exchange tips. I find one removed grill. How can I fix it? Thank you for advice.
  
 (image missing)


----------



## Griffith

keller1 said:


> Got a second pair of ZSTs in the mail just now.
> 
> 0 sonic difference from my first ZST. [Checkered/Regular Cable] vs [Rainbow/ Silvered Cable]
> 
> Im happy cause the cable is much nicer and they dont have the annoying crackle upon insertion.


 
  
 Didn't you notice a slight difference on the most piercing highs, a slight one?


----------



## Ruben123

coil said:


> What version ATE Your got? S? 3rd gen? Port holes are open or closed? What is Your source gear and music preference?
> 5th gen ATE highs are slightly smoothed but detailed and not pushed back or sounding muddy, neither the mids - which are strong point of ATE actually.
> Maybe You are just used with brighter and more V-shaped signature with closer/intimate imaging?
> 
> ...




Running the Havi from my Clip+ and Samsung i9000 just fine. I've heard it runs off an iPhone also.


----------



## Ruben123

griffith said:


> Didn't you notice a slight difference on the most piercing highs, a slight one?




It would seem highly unlikely to hear a difference to me too


----------



## Griffith

ruben123 said:


> It would seem highly unlikely to hear a difference to me too




I was skeptical as well, but I have two Zsts and a silver cable and I've tried changing the cable between them multiple times and between the two pairs of earphones each time and I noticed a small difference in the high frequencies every time on the model with the silver cable.


----------



## Drakis

Guys, you may have already seen this, but Aliexpress is doing a Winter sale.
 So i got myself a KZ ZST Candy, without mic, for €12,64 (roughly 13.5 USD).
 The seller is H&Q Electronic Store (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2663005).


----------



## Keller1

griffith said:


> I was skeptical as well, but I have two Zsts and a silver cable and I've tried changing the cable between them multiple times and between the two pairs of earphones each time and I noticed a small difference in the high frequencies every time on the model with the silver cable.


 

 Honestly there might be but i cant tell them apart.

 Even if there is the impact is so minor it practically does not matter.


----------



## Griffith

keller1 said:


> Honestly there might be but i cant tell them apart.
> 
> Even if there is the impact is so minor it practically does not matter.


 
  
 I didn't say it was a major difference, I didn't say it mattered immensely. However, provided you, or anyone else, can replicate the experience I had with mine, that might prove to be a valuable selling point to people who might be interested in the ZST but are concerned that the high frequencies might be too harsh as the silver cable does, to a small extent, attenuate that issue.


----------



## Saoshyant

Frankly, I'd be curious to see how the ZST sounds with a non-KZ cable.  I should test.
  
 Edit:  And tested.  Using a fairly inexpensive cable that came with Rose Masya, bass quite noticeably increased.  This kind of goes along with a similar test I did using the KZ ZST cable with Rose Pudding, which resulted in me wondering where the hell my bass went.


----------



## Ruben123

saoshyant said:


> Frankly, I'd be curious to see how the ZST sounds with a non-KZ cable.  I should test.
> 
> Edit:  And tested.  Using a fairly inexpensive cable that came with Rose Masya, bass quite noticeably increased.  This kind of goes along with a similar test I did using the KZ ZST cable with Rose Pudding, which resulted in me wondering where the hell my bass went.




Could you measure the impedance of both cables?


----------



## Saoshyant

Sorry, don't have any tools to measure impedance.  I'm currently using the standard rainbow ZST cable, never got around to trying out the silver cable.
  
 I asked if someone in the earbuds thread could measure the impedance, but not many have bought that particular earbud, so not sure if that will pan out.


----------



## Keller1

griffith said:


> I didn't say it was a major difference, I didn't say it mattered immensely. However, provided you, or anyone else, can replicate the experience I had with mine, that might prove to be a valuable selling point to people who might be interested in the ZST but are concerned that the high frequencies might be too harsh as the silver cable does, to a small extent, attenuate that issue.


 

 Sadly the problem doesnt lie with the ZST - the sound balance is excellent - the problem is generally in the recording and that makes the ZST a pair of headphones that, while having extremely good value is prone to exposing failings of the recordings you're listening to. Some things i absolutely love are just unlistenable with the ZST. Others are great, but  the issue stands.
 I think that's okay. The ZST is cheap enough to not be a huge deal even if something your like just sounds like crap out of the studio. At the very least you'll have a pair that sounds really good atleast for a small portion of things you listen to, as this is an issue with mainly aggresive fast-paced genres of music. Metal, Hard Rock, Swing and the sort ... Anything electronic will sound SUBLIME on these.

 If anyone's considering getting a ZST - even just to try it out - is going to be a happy buyer in my opinion and that's okay.
  

 Now onto the silvered cable - i personally consider it a cosmetic upgrade i got because I just wanna give KZ the sale at this point, I'm just sharing my experience, and in my opinion, it does not affect the sound quality, atleast not on a level i can appreciate. Whether that's a good or bad thing - i don't know.
  
 I just dont think you should be looking at a cable upgrade to modify what is already a great signature.
  
 Edit: Pressed ctrl+enter too soon sorry.


----------



## CoiL

ruben123 said:


> Running the Havi from my Clip+ and Samsung i9000 just fine. I've heard it runs off an iPhone also.


 
 Those sources can run it... but it will never sound like it is being hyped.
  
 My last OT about this. 
  
  
 WHEN t h is my ZST(c) going to arrive?!? -.- I hope soon, never had issues with AE sellers I`ve bought from.


----------



## Keller1

coil said:


> Those sources can run it... but it will never sound like it is being hyped.
> 
> My last OT about this.
> 
> ...


 

 i bought on 11.11. It was shipped on 25.11. It arrived 25.01. 2 days after I got refunded on aliexpress for the order too.


----------



## CoiL

I ordered 10/12/16 and no signs yet. 14 days till order closes. Never took so long before


----------



## Keller1

coil said:


> I ordered 10/12/16 and no signs yet. 14 days till order closes. Never took so long before


 

 Holiday season is a nightmare in terms of orders from china.


----------



## abzjji

Hi everyone, i got my ATRs a while ago and after fiddeling  quite some time with Viper4Arise and Poweramp im very happy with the sound. I was wondering how to clean them. I always have a lot of earwax on the inside of the earbuds. Is it safe to touch them with a hard object? A toothpick for example or could I break something that way?


----------



## Lotmom

So, Just measured the impedence of the KZ ZST Cables, seems to be somewhere around 3 Ohm on the right channel and and 3 Ohm on the left! Hope this helps!


----------



## stuck limo

Can anyone with the KZ ZS3 earphones please look at this and tell me if I have the correct versions of these or if these were recalled? The cut/angle on the left hand earbud does not match like the right does. http://imgur.com/a/bSTYK There also may or may not be a slight channel imbalance on the left hand side. I'm wondering if I got an early version or if I have the correct version.


----------



## khighly

mus1c said:


> But why you said that.This is most branded audio equipment that been use by the professional.Why,cuz you like it cheap?.




I've had expensive IEM's in the past. There just isn't enough of a benefit between $16 ZST's combined with my Tennmak Pro's when I want a warmer sound to justify spending upwards of $1000.

I'm overly rational and hate pseudoscience. I don't like falling to the marketing nonsense either.


----------



## Lotmom

stuck limo said:


> Can anyone with the KZ ZS3 earphones please look at this and tell me if I have the correct versions of these or if these were recalled? The cut/angle on the left hand earbud does not match like the right does. http://imgur.com/a/bSTYK There also may or may not be a slight channel imbalance on the left hand side. I'm wondering if I got an early version or if I have the correct version.


 
 I don't mean to be rude, but are you sure the cables are in the right pods? On my ZST's It turns out that i had been wearing them backwards for about 2 days! There is no R/L marking on the earpieces themselves, so you might wanna check that out. Best of luck!


----------



## stuck limo

lotmom said:


> I don't mean to be rude, but are you sure the cables are in the right pods? On my ZST's It turns out that i had been wearing them backwards for about 2 days! There is no R/L marking on the earpieces themselves, so you might wanna check that out. Best of luck!


 
  
 I absolutely have them in the correct pods. If you view the pictures, the R and L letters match up. The contours just don't match up and I'm concerned/confused.


----------



## khighly

The ZST's are formed so they fit around your tragus. If you have them backwards I don't think they would fit right? I feel for the rounded inner part to tell what ear they go in when I can't see at night.

The cables should be facing AWAY from the IEM's, and should be pushed down firm.


----------



## stuck limo

khighly said:


> The ZST's are formed so they fit around your tragus. If you have them backwards I don't think they would fit right? I feel for the rounded inner part to tell what ear they go in when I can't see at night.
> 
> The cables should be facing AWAY from the IEM's, and should be pushed down firm.


 

 I'm a dumbass. I figured it out. The hook needed to be bent the opposite way. The balance issue may or may still not be an issue though.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

stuck limo said:


> Can anyone with the KZ ZS3 earphones please look at this and tell me if I have the correct versions of these or if these were recalled? The cut/angle on the left hand earbud does not match like the right does. http://imgur.com/a/bSTYK There also may or may not be a slight channel imbalance on the left hand side. I'm wondering if I got an early version or if I have the correct version.




Even though they are curved that way, it's actually wrong. Mine were curved like that, but you have to bend them the other way for proper polarity and fit. Nothing wrong with them. It's safe since it's just a thin piece of malleable metal inside.


----------



## Podster

vincehill24 said:


> Hmm, that's weird. Maybe it was quite some time since i last bought the ZS3 silver cable so probably they didn't include now. The ZS3 cable can't fit fully into the ZST because the groove that the connection terminates are different on both ZST & ZS3 though both are using 2 pin connections. Anyway the cable quality is quite good, reminds me of my ex TFZ Series 1s cable.


 

 The silver cable for the ZS3 is totally different than the ZST/ED12 silver cable. The ZS3 cable connectors at the shell are straight and the ZST/ED12 silver is curved
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Way to hang in there Stuck, I fiddled for a while with the ZS3 silver cable myself
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They were still a little loose when I got them right but I just did what I do with loose electrical plugs and just bent the pins out ever so slightly and they work perfect now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


 Still did not have them right in this shot


----------



## khighly




----------



## MissChristie

^ Very nice pictures, the two of you above me!
  
 I dipped my toe in the KZ waters with a pair of ATEs that arrived last week. I find them to be very nice, and love that they provide a dark, mid forward signature that I felt was lacking the my Sony hybrids, the XBA-H1. They really give me the type of satisfaction I had with my Hifiman RE-600. My only complaint though is that every so often, there will be a song I listen to that will have a lower frequency acoustic instrument like a cello or acoustic bass, and the notes it makes come off more like "Wub-wub" from a dubstep song, than as a real instrument with it's own texture and detail.


----------



## stuck limo

sometechnoob said:


> Even though they are curved that way, it's actually wrong. Mine were curved like that, but you have to bend them the other way for proper polarity and fit. Nothing wrong with them. It's safe since it's just a thin piece of malleable metal inside.


 
  
 I now have the contours/cut hugging each other/following the shape of the pod. That IS correct, correct? Only issue is that the hook itself is not tight around my ear now. Problems problems.


----------



## Podster

misschristie said:


> ^ Very nice pictures, the two of you above me!
> 
> I dipped my toe in the KZ waters with a pair of ATEs that arrived last week. I find them to be very nice, and love that they provide a dark, mid forward signature that I felt was lacking the my Sony hybrids, the XBA-H1. They really give me the type of satisfaction I had with my Hifiman RE-600. My only complaint though is that every so often, there will be a song I listen to that will have a lower frequency acoustic instrument like a cello or acoustic bass, and the notes it makes come off more like "Wub-wub" from a dubstep song, than as a real instrument with it's own texture and detail.


 

 THX Miss Christie, if you can afford it you should try the ED9 (one of the two filters may just hit the spot for you and clear that wub wub thing up) and if you like those give KZ's ZST a run. IMO they are easily worth their asking price
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Actually Stuck I wish they would just leave that ear guide off these cables, most cables always lay nicely over my ears


----------



## SomeTechNoob

stuck limo said:


> I now have the contours/cut hugging each other/following the shape of the pod. That IS correct, correct? Only issue is that the hook itself is not tight around my ear now. Problems problems.




Just bend the memory wire around your ear until it takes shape.


----------



## stuck limo

sometechnoob said:


> Just bend the memory wire around your ear until it takes shape.


 
 I am. Where the wire actually gives way to the bend jutting out from the earpod is too long, if that makes sense. It's not close enough to the curve of my ear. I'd have to show pic I guess. I'm still working with it but at least we seem to be 90 or 95% of the way there. Now, is there a way to tell if I have the latest updated version or a recalled version?


----------



## CoiL

lotmom said:


> So, Just measured the impedence of the KZ ZST Cables, seems to be somewhere around 3 Ohm on the right channel and and 3 Ohm on the left! Hope this helps!


 
 That`s a LOT! O_o Way too much actually!
  


misschristie said:


> My only complaint though is that every so often, there will be a song I listen to that will have a lower frequency acoustic instrument like a cello or acoustic bass, and the notes it makes come off more like "Wub-wub" from a dubstep song, than as a real instrument with it's own texture and detail.


 
 You could try closing (or half-closing) port holes on shells and use very wide bore or KZ starline tips (or tips that You find reducing bass slightly).


----------



## SomeTechNoob

How do you measure the impedance of the cable?  Do you just measure from the 3.5mm to the pin or what?


----------



## ricemanhk

stuck limo said:


> Can anyone with the KZ ZS3 earphones please look at this and tell me if I have the correct versions of these or if these were recalled? The cut/angle on the left hand earbud does not match like the right does. http://imgur.com/a/bSTYK There also may or may not be a slight channel imbalance on the left hand side. I'm wondering if I got an early version or if I have the correct version.


 
 You have the cables inserted the wrong way.  The L and R letters should face out (away from your head), and the contours on the wire housing should match up exactly with the earbud body.
  
 You can also check the polarity of your wiring and earbuds online, someone posted a link here once.  Just search polarity check and there will be tones to play to see if the polarity is correct.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Ay sup new member here, anyone have experience with the Rock Zircons? Looking to get the ZST colorfuls and wondering if they would be a step up or not. Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question but I am a bit of an amateur that's just looking to get some good audio without breaking the bank. Cheers


----------



## jkaudio

*KZ ZST arrived BROKEN*
  
 Hallo, I am new in forum. My new KZ ZST arrived on monday. Before arrived KZ ATR. All good. But yesterday I want to exchange tips. *One pod has a removed grill. How can I fix it?*
  
 Thank you for advice.


----------



## crabdog

thewongwrong said:


> Ay sup new member here, anyone have experience with the Rock Zircons? Looking to get the ZST colorfuls and wondering if they would be a step up or not. Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question but I am a bit of an amateur that's just looking to get some good audio without breaking the bank. Cheers


 
 Hi TheWongWrong. Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd say the ZST is a definite step up from the Zircon with more clarity, detail and bigger soundstage. BUT it has significantly less bass than the Zircon. Overall the ZST is better in my opinion.


----------



## TheWongWrong

crabdog said:


> Hi TheWongWrong. Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet.   I'd say the ZST is a definite step up from the Zircon with more clarity, detail and bigger soundstage. BUT it has significantly less bass than the Zircon. Overall the ZST is better in my opinion.


haha thanks for your quick reply  but if I'm not mistaken isn't the bass on the zircon somewhat considered "too much"? I don't have much experience with different headphones so I'm not too sure. Thanks again


----------



## TheWongWrong

crabdog said:


> Hi TheWongWrong. Welcome to Head-Fi and sorry about your wallet.   I'd say the ZST is a definite step up from the Zircon with more clarity, detail and bigger soundstage. BUT it has significantly less bass than the Zircon. Overall the ZST is better in my opinion.


Also do you mind telling me how long you zircon lasted? Mine is already starting to go with the right speaker and it's barely been a month. Hope the ZSTs last longer :/


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

thewongwrong said:


> Also do you mind telling me how long you zircon lasted? Mine is already starting to go with the right speaker and it's barely been a month. Hope the ZSTs last longer :/


 
 Lol. I've heard so many stories like that, but people keep buying Zircons... I think we need to start a protest and start buying other headphones instead. I did buy their Rock Mula's though. I'll let you know how long those last...


----------



## jkaudio

*KZ ZST arrived BROKEN*

 Hallo, I am new in forum. My new KZ ZST arrived on monday. Before arrived KZ ATR. All good. But yesterday I want to exchange tips. *One pod has a removed grill. How can I fix it?*

 Thank you for advice.

 OT1: I try post message with image yesterday, but picture was removed and empty message without text in thread. This is quite useless, if I am looking for help and also unable explain, what is wrong. One picture is better than 1000 words.
 OT2: I uploaded pictures and try to add links to message, but no permission to publish offsite links or images.
  
 @$%^#$^%^& unbelievable...
  
*Is there someone, I can MP with links and he adds pictures in reply?*
  
 Thank you.


----------



## crabdog

thewongwrong said:


> haha thanks for your quick reply  but if I'm not mistaken isn't the bass on the zircon somewhat considered "too much"? I don't have much experience with different headphones so I'm not too sure. Thanks again



Yeah the zircon is definitely in basshead territory and can be too much for me personally.


----------



## ayao

jkaudio said:


> *KZ ZST arrived BROKEN*
> 
> Hallo, I am new in forum. My new KZ ZST arrived on monday. Before arrived KZ ATR. All good. But yesterday I want to exchange tips. *One pod has a removed grill. How can I fix it?*
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you need a certain number of posts before you're allowed to post pictures. I also think that you explained the situation clearly enough to not need a picture to be posted, since this issue (missing/misplaced grill) has happened in the past. The best solution would be to contact the seller and get them to send a replacement pair, though you'll probably need to send the faulty one back. Is there a difference in sound?


----------



## jkaudio

ayao said:


> I think you need a certain number of posts before you're allowed to post pictures. I also think that you explained the situation clearly enough to not need a picture to be posted, since this issue (missing/misplaced grill) has happened in the past. The best solution would be to contact the seller and get them to send a replacement pair, though you'll probably need to send the faulty one back. Is there a difference in sound?


 
  
 I think no. They are perfect. Even with this defect. Probably I will try glue it with water resistante fast glue. My only and best headphones I use for ages are Philips SBC HP800. ZST and ATR sounds better for me against HP800 in many aspects (stage, bass atc). Now I prefer ZST over Xiaomi Hybrid. But both are perfect.


----------



## Keller1

My Samsung phones [Note 3] or [6 Edge+] wont hold my silvered ZST cables in for some reason.

 Ye other devices I have do no problem [Evo 4G, Lumia 930, ZTE L110].
  
 Anyone else encounter this?


----------



## Brooko

@jkaudio - your pictures are posted in your *original post*.


----------



## rad7

jkaudio said:


> *KZ ZST arrived BROKEN*
> 
> Hallo, I am new in forum. My new KZ ZST arrived on monday. Before arrived KZ ATR. All good. But yesterday I want to exchange tips. *One pod has a removed grill. How can I fix it?*
> 
> Thank you for advice.


 
 Where did you order them from? I will be getting my ZSTs from Amazon today. 
  
 If you ordered from a site like Amazon, you can usually return them for a refund even if the seller is not being helpful.


----------



## Vidal

jkaudio said:


> I think no. They are perfect. Even with this defect. Probably I will try glue it with water resistante fast glue. My only and best headphones I use for ages are Philips SBC HP800. ZST and ATR sounds better for me against HP800 in many aspects (stage, bass atc). Now I prefer ZST over Xiaomi Hybrid. But both are perfect.


 
  
  
 There maybe enough residual glue to hold the grille in place with just a very light press.
  
 The mesh will have little to no bearing on the sound so you could just remove it, but you my risk debris entering the ear piece. I wouldn't be sending them back to China if you got them from there, postage takes forever from most Western countries.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Hey can anyone confirm with me if the colorfuls are tuned differently than the black/carbons? If so in what way? And also I've heard that there was a QC issue with the black/carbons, is that true?


----------



## jkaudio

rad7 said:


> Where did you order them from? I will be getting my ZSTs from Amazon today.
> 
> If you ordered from a site like Amazon, you can usually return them for a refund even if the seller is not being helpful.


 

 Gearbest. But I ordered several earphones without issue till now. Probably KZ QC problem.


----------



## jkaudio

vidal said:


> There maybe enough residual glue to hold the grille in place with just a very light press.
> 
> The mesh will have little to no bearing on the sound so you could just remove it, but you my risk debris entering the ear piece. I wouldn't be sending them back to China if you got them from there, postage takes forever from most Western countries.


 

 Yea, you are right. If I find how to disassembly pods, I give a try to fast glue.


----------



## chickenmoon

thewongwrong said:


> And also I've heard that there was a QC issue with the black/carbons, is that true?




A certain number of people, including me, don't like them at all and I'm not sure it's a QC issue. Nobody knows for sure because nobody's reported having both a good and bad pair so far.


----------



## TheWongWrong

chickenmoon said:


> A certain number of people, including me, don't like them at all and I'm not sure it's a QC issue. Nobody knows for sure because nobody's reported having both a good and bad pair so far.


do you mean the black ones specifically? I've heard ppl talk about them having really sibilant highs and that being a QC issue which was also solved with the colorfuls but I'm not sure how true that is. Although I don't believe I have seen ppl complaining about sibilant highs with the colorfuls


----------



## chickenmoon

thewongwrong said:


> do you mean the black ones specifically? I've heard ppl talk about them having really sibilant highs and that being a QC issue which was also solved with the colorfuls but I'm not sure how true that is. Although I don't believe I have seen ppl complaining about sibilant highs with the colorfuls




I don't know for sure, my grey pair sure sounds quite dreadful (relatively speaking) and the only highs it has is a sibilance peak at 10khz. They don't feel bright, only sibilant.


----------



## TheWongWrong

chickenmoon said:


> I don't know for sure, my grey pair sure sounds quite dreadful (relatively speaking) and the only highs it has is a sibilance peak at 10khz. They don't feel bright, only sibilant.


oh well I guess we'll have to expect this sorta stuff with Chi-Fi lol


----------



## Vidal

chickenmoon said:


> I don't know for sure, my grey pair sure sounds quite dreadful (relatively speaking) and the only highs it has is a sibilance peak at 10khz. They don't feel bright, only sibilant.


 
  
 Where did you buy them from? Can you post a picture showing the nozzle in focus?


----------



## Vidal

thewongwrong said:


> oh well I guess we'll have to expect this sorta stuff with Chi-Fi lol


 
  
 Not really I've had over 300 pairs through my hands in 12 months, only 3 were faulty.
  
 Two of those were cable related as well.


----------



## TheWongWrong

vidal said:


> Not really I've had over 300 pairs through my hands in 12 months, only 3 were faulty.
> 
> Two of those were cable related as well.


do you put them in carrying bags or hard cases? I just stuff them in my pocket lol so I guess that's why mine don't last long


----------



## Podster

thewongwrong said:


> oh well I guess we'll have to expect this sorta stuff with Chi-Fi lol


 

@jkaudio to add to what Vidal said on the repair you should use something like a toothpick or mechanical pencil end (lead in) to work that mesh screen back down inside the nozzle
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
@chickenmoon Try to remember we all don't hear our iem's the same, I have found far more who like the ZST than don't
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As a <$20 hybrid I think they are fantastic but then again we are talking my ears.
  
@TheWongWrong maybe here in a week or so when my colorfuls come in I can tell you if I hear any difference in the two ZST's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also the Rock Zircon sounds nothing like the ZST but for their price they are not bad and I've had a perfect pair for like 2 years now, really like wearing them when I'm at either of my son's sporting events. (Wife says it keeps me under control and from flying out of my seat when I think I see things differently than the refs)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




LOL


----------



## Vidal

That's why they break then, even western brands won't withstand frequent pocketing. Get yourself a decent case and they'll last for ages.
  
 I was referring to 'dead on arrival' with those numbers though.


----------



## Vidal

thewongwrong said:


> Hey can anyone confirm with me if the colorfuls are tuned differently than the black/carbons? If so in what way? And also I've heard that there was a QC issue with the black/carbons, is that true?


 
  
 They are now tuned the same. I have a pair of both bought within the last month. I did a side by side before doing my review of the ZST.
  
 I had one from the earliest batch, the bass was overpowering. They were fun but not "hifi" material. The latest versions are tuned more conservatively and are relatively balanced.
  
 If you are treble sensitive then you may find them excessively bright, you'll find most hybrids are similar. If you want less high end look at the Kineras or Tennmak.
  
 The treble sensitivity is probably age related.


----------



## TheWongWrong

vidal said:


> That's why they break then, even western brands won't withstand frequent pocketing. Get yourself a decent case and they'll last for ages.
> 
> I was referring to 'dead on arrival' with those numbers though.


 welp I guess I have to take care of my stuff more then lol


----------



## TheWongWrong

vidal said:


> They are now tuned the same. I have a pair of both bought within the last month. I did a side by side before doing my review of the ZST.
> 
> I had one from the earliest batch, the bass was overpowering. They were fun but not "hifi" material. The latest versions are tuned more conservatively and are relatively balanced.
> 
> ...


 thanks for all your info man it's really helpful


----------



## TheWongWrong

podster said:


> @jkaudio
> to add to what Vidal said on the repair you should use something like a toothpick or mechanical pencil end (lead in) to work that mesh screen back down inside the nozzle:wink_face:
> 
> @chickenmoon
> ...


what sorta music do you listen to with your Zircons?


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> They are now tuned the same. I have a pair of both bought within the last month. I did a side by side before doing my review of the ZST.
> 
> I had one from the earliest batch, the bass was overpowering. They were fun but not "hifi" material. The latest versions are tuned more conservatively and are relatively balanced.
> 
> ...




Makes me wonder what kind of ZST I have as they don't have overpowering bass or even much bass and neither are they bright sounding. Quite muddy mids and plus a sibilance peak is what I hear most in them. Being just past 50 I cannot hear anything above around 14khz but I hear the rest of the spectrum fine. Vivo XE800, Quadbeat 3, especially AKG version and Monoprice feel very bright to me, the ZST doesn't, it just has sibilance/prominent 10khz frequencies.


----------



## VinceHill24

It's Chinese New Year, so here's some golden KZ antique


----------



## Vidal

chickenmoon said:


> Makes me wonder what kind of ZST I have as they don't have overpowering bass or even much bass and neither are they bright sounding. Quite muddy mids and plus a sibilance peak is what I hear most in them. Being just past 50 I cannot hear anything above around 14khz but I hear the rest of the spectrum fine. Vivo XE800, Quadbeat 3, espacially AKG version and Monoprice feel very bright to me the ZST not.


 
  
 Doesn't sound like the ZSTs I've heard by any stretch. The ZST are pretty sweet sounding. 
  
  


vincehill24 said:


> It's Chinese New Year, so here's some golden KZ antique


 
  
 You can still get them on Ali are they any good?


----------



## TheWongWrong

Any word on how much the upcoming ZSR will be? Seen a guy say 699 RMB but I'm not really buying it since they still come in the same cheap packaging


----------



## khighly

Just got my tube headphone amp I designed and made shipped from my old home.

Holy moly mids just came out of nowhere on the ZST colorfuls. I can tell the difference between the tube amp and just plugging them into my computer. ZST's really excel when properly driven.


----------



## aaDee

Xduoo X10 + ZST = Budget Audiophile's Dream Sound


----------



## Podster

aadee said:


> Xduoo X10 + ZST = Budget Audiophile's Dream Sound


 

 Feel the same about this one


----------



## rad7

podster said:


> Feel the same about this one


 
 What music player is that?


----------



## Podster

rad7 said:


> What music player is that?


 

 Shanling M1 https://www.eglobalcentral.com/shanling-m1-dsd-hifi-portable-lossless-music-player-black.html?gclid=CPqy2Lel49ECFUm4wAodl8kGxw#


----------



## fredhubbard2

aadee said:


> Xduoo X10 + ZST = Budget Audiophile's Dream Sound


 
  
 they sound really great w/ xDuoo X3 & X2 too ... synergy.


----------



## kokakolia

So I just got the ED7s today, and I am floored!!! I think I finally found my Goldilocks pair. 
  
 They're everything I liked from the ED9s without the murderous treble and boomy bass. They just image so well. I sometimes forget I am wearing earbuds. They're that good. 
  
 They're just perfect for me: warm & smooth. You can wear them all day long without feeling tired. 
  
 Compared to more expensive earbuds (Marshall Mode), they don't quite have the bass impact. And vocals can sound a bit "sssssss". But for a measly $7, I am willing to accept the trade-off. How can they be so cheap??? 
  
 That said, the "balanced" sound signature of the ED7s may come off as dull to many people, especially people in this thread who don't seem to mind the Ed9s. I also recall someone disliking the ED7s several hundred pages ago haha. 
  
 Now I regret buying the Marshall Mode, I should have waited LOL. 
  
 $7....for this!?


----------



## Isai897

Hello friends,I've been struggling and asking which KZ iems shoud I buy for a first timer are the ZST the best option? Thanks for your answers.


----------



## B9Scrambler

isai897 said:


> Hello friends,I've been struggling and asking which KZ iems shoud I buy for a first timer área the ZST the best option?


 
  
 Well, you've got lots of options with KZ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If sensitive to treble, the ZST might not be the best option and I'd say go with the ZS3. Otherwise, give the ZST a go. It's a very good budget option.


----------



## khighly

b9scrambler said:


> Well, you've got lots of options with KZ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Even if you're treble sensitive, use them for a few days on a lower volume than you'd normally listen to and your brain will auto-EQ for you. ZST Colorful is a solid choice though. I would recommend the ATE as well. ATE is more neutral and warm, but doesn't have the soundstage and pure clarity of the ZST colorfuls.


----------



## VinceHill24

vidal said:


> Doesn't sound like the ZSTs I've heard by any stretch. The ZST are pretty sweet sounding.
> 
> 
> 
> You can still get them on Ali are they any good?


With the stock filter not so. With the ED9 gold filter, they sound kinda good to me. Still mid-bass emphasis with rolled-off treble but with the bass more in control with tighter punch and treble that has better smoother extension whilst being recessed. Midrange particularly vocal is very prominent which is slightly forward with much more weight and i particularly enjoyed female vocals which sounds fuller with more body. Given a lot of negatives i've read about them, my expectation was obviously lowered so hearing them now actually makes them not bad at all. They're cheap so i think it's worth a try.


----------



## rad7

I received my colorful ZSTs today and just started listening to them. The build quality is a little bit iffy; while changing the ear tips, the protective mesh started to come off. They also sound a little bit underwhelming, when compared to my very old Xears XE200 Pro Walnut Edition i.e.m.s. I might have received a defective piece, but I guess the main reason for this is that I am not getting a good seal even with the largest provided ear tips.
  
 Can someone suggest good replacement ear tips for the ZST?


----------



## kokakolia

In humble opinion,
  
 (keep in mind that I avoid over-ear style earphones)
  
 The ED7 is smooth & mellow <= awesome for indie/rock/folk genres (may sound boring to some people)
  
 The ED9 is in your face and "fun" <= great for Pop/EDM/ambient (although the bass could be too much)
  
 Me personally, I think that the ED9 has some pretty nasty treble and sounds kinda "thin" as well. 
  
 I dunno, my brain says that most people will like the ED9 over the ED7. But my ears are absolutely terrified of the ED9's harshness.


----------



## CoiL

I received my ZST(c) yesterday evening. 
  

  
 OOTB, they sound very good for budget-gear hoarders and average music listeners. But there are some things... will let them burn-in and comment sometime later.
  


rad7 said:


> I received my colorful ZSTs today and just started listening to them. The build quality is a little bit iffy; while changing the ear tips, the protective mesh started to come off.
> 
> Can someone suggest good replacement ear tips for the ZST?


 
 Try Auvio tips. Haven`t tried all my tip collection but atm stayed with those.
  
 Will comment on following posts later:
  






Spoiler: Warning! Audiophile whinery:



Quote:


chickenmoon said:


> thewongwrong said:
> 
> 
> > do you mean the black ones specifically? I've heard ppl talk about them having really sibilant highs and that being a QC issue which was also solved with the colorfuls but I'm not sure how true that is. Although I don't believe I have seen ppl complaining about sibilant highs with the colorfuls
> ...


  




vidal said:


> The latest versions are tuned more conservatively and are relatively balanced.
> 
> If you are treble sensitive then you may find them excessively bright, you'll find most hybrids are similar. If you want less high end look at the Kineras or Tennmak.


 


   
 Quote:


chickenmoon said:


> Makes me wonder what kind of ZST I have as they don't have overpowering bass or even much bass and neither are they bright sounding. Quite muddy mids and plus a sibilance peak is what I hear most in them. Being just past 50 I cannot hear anything above around 14khz but I hear the rest of the spectrum fine. Vivo XE800, Quadbeat 3, especially AKG version and Monoprice feel very bright to me, the ZST doesn't, it just has sibilance/prominent 10khz frequencies.


  

 Quote:


khighly said:


> b9scrambler said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you've got lots of options with KZ
> ...


----------



## Jojaonthebeat

Too many pages to check the difference between ZS3 and ZST. I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound, instrument separation/imaging, great soundstage and controlled tight bass. I like it to sound like I'm in a big theater. Which will be the better choice? Can someone give the difference about how they sound?


----------



## CoiL

jojaonthebeat said:


> Too many pages to check the difference between ZS3 and ZST. I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound, instrument separation/imaging, great soundstage and controlled tight bass. I like it to sound like I'm in a big theater. Which will be the better choice? Can someone give the difference about how they sound?


 
 ATE 5th gen or ZS3.
  
 But if You jump outside of KZ... based on what You described - maybe Magaosi BK50 or even UrbanFun ?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

jojaonthebeat said:


> Too many pages to check the difference between ZS3 and ZST. I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound, instrument separation/imaging, great soundstage and controlled tight bass. I like it to sound like I'm in a big theater. Which will be the better choice? Can someone give the difference about how they sound?


 
 It seems that there are so many different opinions about the ZS3 and the ZST. It seems like one of those instances where it's better to buy both and figure it out yourself. Maybe you'll be happy with both of them?


----------



## fredhubbard2

rad7 said:


> I received my colorful ZSTs today and just started listening to them. The build quality is a little bit iffy; while changing the ear tips, the protective mesh started to come off. They also sound a little bit underwhelming, when compared to my very old Xears XE200 Pro Walnut Edition i.e.m.s. I might have received a defective piece, but I guess the main reason for this is that I am not getting a good seal even with the largest provided ear tips.
> 
> Can someone suggest good replacement ear tips for the ZST?




I always recommend jvc spiral dots. Always.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> Even if you're treble sensitive, use them for a few days on a lower volume than you'd normally listen to and your brain will auto-EQ for you.


 
 LOL. That's hilarious. Really?


----------



## zabunny94

laughmoredaily said:


> LOL. That's hilarious. Really?




It is called "brain burn" and it is definitely more legit than membrane burn in or even boutique cable


----------



## Vidal

laughmoredaily said:


> LOL. That's hilarious. Really?


 
  
 When you walk into a smelly house you notice the smell, after an hour your brain has compensated for it and you don't smell it as strongly. That's why people who have dogs don't notice the smell in their own home.
  
 I think the same applies to sounds, although to a lesser degree. I was reading Brooko's review guide he refers to it in that. I've noticed that if I listen to darker headphones for an extended period, when I come back to a bright pair they seem harsh initially.
  
 The brain is probably designed to pick up on sudden changes rather than subtle ones over time, it's probably a survival thing.


----------



## Vidal

jojaonthebeat said:


> Too many pages to check the difference between ZS3 and ZST. I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound, instrument separation/imaging, great soundstage and controlled tight bass. I like it to sound like I'm in a big theater. Which will be the better choice? Can someone give the difference about how they sound?


 
  
  
 'I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound' - really raising the bar quite high with that requirement as they're almost opposing trends with Chi-Fi earphones. Detail tends to come with more pronounced treble in my experience.
  
 Of the two ZSTs are closer but they are still fairly bright.
  
 As mentioned ATE or ATR etc. will give you a better match if you need smoothness, I'd lean towards the ATR vs ATE as they're more detailed at the expense of a little mids/mid bass.
  
 Here's my take on the KZ range at the moment, I might revisit these scores when I have more time.


----------



## MAntunes

So, we are already in the New Chinese Year, where are the ZSR?


----------



## Saoshyant

vidal said:


> The brain is probably designed to pick up on sudden changes rather than subtle ones over time, it's probably a survival thing.


 
  
 In order for a change to be noticeable, a certain threshold of change has to be passed in order for it to be noticed, which varies from person to person.  It'd be like slowly changing volume over a long period of time where while the beginning and end volume are quite noticeably different the gradual change goes unnoticed.  It's also easily experienced with increase and decrease of available light during sunrise and sunset and throughout the day.


----------



## James Freeman

"Burn-in" is actually 100% psycho-acoustical phenomenon all in your brain.
 The mechanical part is "set-in" after a few seconds or less of movement, a simple 20-20kHz frequency sweep will set-in the diaphragm completely and forever, already done in the factory.
 Don't be fooled by other nonsense.
  
 Get a pair of IEMs that sound close-enough to your favorite speakers and just listen to them plenty.


----------



## B9Scrambler

james freeman said:


> "Burn-in" is actually 100% psycho-acoustical phenomenon all in your brain.
> The mechanical part is "set-in" after a few seconds or less of movement, a simple 20-20kHz frequency sweep will set-in the diaphragm completely and forever, already done in the factory.
> Don't be fooled by other nonsense.
> 
> Get a pair of IEMs that sound close-enough to your favorite speakers and just listen to them plenty.


 
  
 That's wonderful. As has been advised a million times this discussion needs to be left in the Sound Science forum: http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, general knowledge question time which pertains to KZ as they use both connection types.  As they're both two pins, one .78mm and the other .75mm, does any one know the specific connection names as saying 2 pin doesn't really distinguish between the two.  There are WAY too many connector types for IEMs, it's absolutely obnoxious.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

Just got the ZS-1 in house. . they are big !  the ZST is nice and shaped , the ZS-1 is like a beat box in your ear .. there is alot of Bass ! the overal sound is ok .. not so detailed as the ZST , i even like the ATR better than the ZS-1 .. The ZS-1 is nice for bass heads i think .. i will let it brake in for a while . may be the staging and high tunes will clear more .. 
  
 Great set to give away !


----------



## CoiL

vidal said:


> 'I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound' - really raising the bar quite high with that requirement as they're almost opposing trends with Chi-Fi earphones. Detail tends to come with more pronounced treble in my experience.


 
 Not always. The first IEM that comes into my mind is Magaosi BK50, like I already recommended to asker. Big "holographic" soundstage, good layering, great imaging, smooth highs and overall sound but details come out very well almost in every frequency region. Only bass area sounds littlebit "soft" and has less details/crispiness but still has nice quality and presence.


----------



## rad7

fredhubbard2 said:


> I always recommend jvc spiral dots. Always.


 
 Considering the fact that the largest ear tips that came with the ZST could not create a proper seal, what sized spiral dots might work for me - M/L hybrid size or L?
  
 Also, I have never owned foam ear tips & I am curious about how they sound when paired with the ZSTs. Does something like Shure EABKF1 foam sleeves work well with the ZST?
  
 PS: I wish these ear tips are not so expensive. They are almost as expensive as the ZSTs themselves!


----------



## fredhubbard2

rad7 said:


> Considering the fact that the largest ear tips that came with the ZST could not create a proper seal, what sized spiral dots might work for me - M/L hybrid size or L?
> 
> Also, I have never owned foam ear tips & I am curious about how they sound when paired with the ZSTs. Does something like Shure EABKF1 foam sleeves work well with the ZST?
> 
> PS: I wish these ear tips are not so expensive. They are almost as expensive as the ZSTs themselves!




They are pricey but worth it. I have big ears and I use the large ones. Proper seal .I have never got on with foam tips, they seem to reduce bass and soundstage but many headfi'ers swear by them


----------



## Vidal

coil said:


> Not always. The first IEM that comes into my mind is Magaosi BK50, like I already recommended to asker. Big "holographic" soundstage, good layering, great imaging, smooth highs and overall sound but details come out very well almost in every frequency region. Only bass area sounds littlebit "soft" and has less details/crispiness but still has nice quality and presence.


 
  
 I haven't got one to hand anymore as I was never that enamoured with BK50. I'll have to borrow my old one off my dad for another listening session.


----------



## khighly

jojaonthebeat said:


> Too many pages to check the difference between ZS3 and ZST. I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound, instrument separation/imaging, great soundstage and controlled tight bass. I like it to sound like I'm in a big theater. Which will be the better choice? Can someone give the difference about how they sound?


 

 Sounds like you'll want the ZST Colorfuls. Giant soundstage, great stereo separation, very quick & detailed, tight controlled bass. A little more high focused, but it just brings out the fine details in absolutely everything. Instrument separation is killer and you can focus on any part of the song you want. Drum splashes are gorgeous and detailed. Snares are super fun. Only bad thing about the ZST's is you can tell what was recorded poorly, and it will make a point to let you know it was recorded poorly. Like "pssst, ZST's here, they didn't really care about the recording of this song =\". The ZST's make me smile as I learn new things about a song I've already heard before.

 I don't have the ZS3's, so sorry I can't comment on those.


----------



## kokakolia

jojaonthebeat said:


> Too many pages to check the difference between ZS3 and ZST. I'm more into smoothness, detailed sound, instrument separation/imaging, great soundstage and controlled tight bass. I like it to sound like I'm in a big theater. Which will be the better choice? Can someone give the difference about how they sound?




It looks like you just described the KZ ED7s. It's smooth and good for imaging. The bass is decent as well. Really, I have lots of good things to say about the ED7s. They don't have harshness in the treble and that's a miracle for the price. They're also the cheapest of the KZ lineup, go figure. I mean seriously, I saw them go for $7. 

That said, the Marshall Major is definitely an upgrade for $50. You get deeper bass and even smoother treble, and more soundstage. Get these if you can afford them. 

Are you looking for over-ear earbuds specifically?

Oh yeah, avoid the ED9s like the plague. There's nothing smooth about them'


----------



## stuck limo

khighly said:


> Sounds like you'll want the ZST Colorfuls. Giant soundstage, great stereo separation, very quick & detailed, tight controlled bass. A little more high focused, but it just brings out the fine details in absolutely everything. Instrument separation is killer and you can focus on any part of the song you want. Drum splashes are gorgeous and detailed. Snares are super fun. Only bad thing about the ZST's is you can tell what was recorded poorly, and it will make a point to let you know it was recorded poorly. Like "pssst, ZST's here, they didn't really care about the recording of this song =\". The ZST's make me smile as I learn new things about a song I've already heard before.
> 
> I don't have the ZS3's, so sorry I can't comment on those.


 
  
 So is this essentially an upgrade to the ZS3?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

stuck limo said:


> So is this essentially an upgrade to the ZS3?




Nah more like an alternate sound signature.


----------



## chompchomps

Whew, 50 hours of burn in on my ZST's and they are pretty phenomenal for the price! Great soundstage and just the right thump for the bass for certain songs! I found it easy to drive although the bass can feel light at low volumes. Clear mids and no signs of sibilance. 
  
 Something to note is that i'm on the silver cable. Never bothered to use the original cable. The silver cable could use with a chin slider too though and i prefer the cable without the memory part!


----------



## macky112

vidal said:


> When you walk into a smelly house you notice the smell, after an hour your brain has compensated for it and you don't smell it as strongly. That's why people who have dogs don't notice the smell in their own home.
> 
> I think the same applies to sounds, although to a lesser degree. I was reading Brooko's review guide he refers to it in that. I've noticed that if I listen to darker headphones for an extended period, when I come back to a bright pair they seem harsh initially.
> 
> The brain is probably designed to pick up on sudden changes rather than subtle ones over time, it's probably a survival thing.


It's called habituation in psychology


----------



## macky112

fredhubbard2 said:


> They are pricey but worth it. I have big ears and I use the large ones. Proper seal .I have never got on with foam tips, they seem to reduce bass and soundstage but many headfi'ers swear by them


I have the same observation about them foamies too...


----------



## kokakolia

macky112 said:


> It's called habituation in psychology




Yeah, this is why bright headphones make me hiss like a vampire under sunlight. 

I will add that having boosted treble is undesirable (to me) when the driver is so close to the ear. It's much more forgiving with speakers.


----------



## CoiL

chompchomps said:


> Whew, 50 hours of burn in on my ZST's and they are pretty phenomenal for the price! Great soundstage and just the right thump for the bass for certain songs! I found it easy to drive although the bass can feel light at low volumes. Clear mids and no signs of sibilance.
> 
> Something to note is that i'm on the silver cable. Never bothered to use the original cable. The silver cable could use with a chin slider too though and i prefer the cable without the memory part!


 
 What source gear?
 What  is file quality/format?
 What kind of music?
 What tips?
  
 Did You measure stock cable impedance and silver cable impedance?
  
  
 I`ve found some faults in ZST sound... OOTB and after they have "burned" for about 20h (without listening meanwhile). But will let them "burn" some more and share impressions later (without listening and "brain-burn-in").
  
 Another thing - can anyone recommend good low impedance 2-pin cable from AE for ZST? I`m starting to like 2-pin connection, feels more secure and better contact than mmcx.


----------



## loomisjohnson

coil said:


> Not always. The first IEM that comes into my mind is Magaosi BK50, like I already recommended to asker. Big "holographic" soundstage, good layering, great imaging, smooth highs and overall sound but details come out very well almost in every frequency region. Only bass area sounds littlebit "soft" and has less details/crispiness but still has nice quality and presence.


 
  
 i actually agree 100% here with coil--even as i've stepped up to triple drivers like the pmv and moni i can't say the bk50 is outclassed--it's still my go-to rec <$50. the bk35, which gets less attention, is comparable. 





>


----------



## Jojaonthebeat

Here are my choices for my next purchase, I'll be buying two IEM's. It will be KZ ZS3 vs Soundmagic e50 and KZ ZST vs Soundmagic e80. So if someone here had tried all of these IEM or have knowledge or background about them I'd like to hear your thoughts. Again it's either ZS3 or the e50 for bass and soundstage. On the other hand it's the ZST vs e80 for clarity, imaging, smoothness and soundstage


----------



## Jojaonthebeat

I'd like to hear from you guys


----------



## Lotmom

jojaonthebeat said:


> Here are my choices for my next purchase, I'll be buying two IEM's. It will be KZ ZS3 vs Soundmagic e50 and KZ ZST vs Soundmagic e80. So if someone here had tried all of these IEM or have knowledge or background about them I'd like to hear your thoughts. Again it's either ZS3 or the e50 for bass and soundstage. On the other hand it's the ZST vs e80 for clarity, imaging, smoothness and soundstage


 
 So, I have not heard any but the ZSTs and I have to say, I'm Blown away.
  They fit great, I like their look, Good, punchy bass, but clear highs, quite "open" sounding for IEMs
  
 I'd say get them, and if you don't like them, it's not a huge loss, even for a broke student like me, $20 is not the end of the world 
  
  
 Edit:
 Forgot to mention, My Kz ED3's are coming in the mail some time soon, Ill update this when i get a chance to listen to them!


----------



## To.M

jojaonthebeat said:


> I'd like to hear from you guys




For KZ ZST and ZS3 at gearbest you will pay about 21usd, which less than for e50 or e80. Thus you will have 2 pairs with 2 sound signatures.


----------



## Lotmom

I'd highly suggest taking a look at PenonAudio! Shipped my ZSTs to Canada within 2 weeks, and only payed 19.90 USD! They package them extremely well, multiple layers of foam and packing tape in a bubble envelope. And they even shipped with a little cable tie velcro thing with their name on it!


----------



## Jojaonthebeat

to.m said:


> For KZ ZST and ZS3 at gearbest you will pay about 21usd, which less than for e50 or e80. Thus you will have 2 pairs with 2 sound signatures.


 
 I'm really not worried about the price. More into the best sound I can get out of the KZ's vs Soundmagic. The e50 and e80 are also 2 diff sound signature as with the ZST and ZS3. So again it's ZS3 vs e50 for v-sound signature with bass and soundstage. And the ZST vs e80 for the neutral signature with sound clarity, detail, imaging and soundstage.


----------



## blackbelt730

Which is better in your opinion? KZ zs3 or KZ zst? I want to get a KZ product for sound and design but I don't know what to get.


----------



## kokakolia

lotmom said:


> Edit:
> 
> Forgot to mention, My Kz ED3's are coming in the mail some time soon, Ill update this when i get a chance to listen to them!




Hey! I'd like to hear from you about the ED3. They don't seem to have reviews anywhere. What made you pick them up? For me, the ED7s DIY aesthetic sold it for me. The bamboo is a cute touch. And yeah, I can't recommend the ED7s enough. They're only $7.


----------



## smy1

I thought the zst wasn't that good?


----------



## CoiL

jojaonthebeat said:


> And the ZST vs e80 for the neutral signature with sound clarity, detail, imaging and soundstage.


 
 ZST is not neutral sounding. It`s rather something like W-shaped signature.


----------



## Lotmom

kokakolia said:


> Hey! I'd like to hear from you about the ED3. They don't seem to have reviews anywhere. What made you pick them up? For me, the ED7s DIY aesthetic sold it for me. The bamboo is a cute touch. And yeah, I can't recommend the ED7s enough. They're only $7.


 
 I read somewhere on this thread that someone liked them and they were kinda an impulse buy. I actually bought the ZSTs after, but as I got the ED3s from Aliexpress, the ZSTs obviously came first.


----------



## nplateau

Just received my ZS3 and ZST a couple of days ago.  The ZS3 is warm and smooth, but lacks some detail and clarity.  The bass is not overpowering, but there is a touch of bloat to it.  The ZST on the other hand, are bright, detailed and resolve pretty well.  Bass is tight, fast and articulate, but lacks some oomph.  If I could toss the ZS3 and ZST into a magic box and come out with a pair of IEMs that had the best of each, I'd have a pretty damn fantastic pair of IEMs for $20 (what I paid for both combined).  As it is, I tend to lean more toward the ZST for its crispness and clarity over the ZS3.


----------



## aaDee

I'm just here hoping KZ will further improve ZST and still manage to keep the price low


----------



## Jojaonthebeat

nplateau said:


> Just received my ZS3 and ZST a couple of days ago.  The ZS3 is warm and smooth, but lacks some detail and clarity.  The bass is not overpowering, but there is a touch of bloat to it.  The ZST on the other hand, are bright, detailed and resolve pretty well.  Bass is tight, fast and articulate, but lacks some oomph.  If I could toss the ZS3 and ZST into a magic box and come out with a pair of IEMs that had the best of each, I'd have a pretty damn fantastic pair of IEMs for $20 (what I paid for both combined).  As it is, I tend to lean more toward the ZST for its crispness and clarity over the ZS3.


 
 How is the soundstage and imaging between the two? Regarding the ZST do also do you get much detail when in comes to drum sounds? Does the hi hat sound along with snare and crash/ride cymbals too much crisp and sharp or does it sound natural and smooth? love when you say you get detailed sound on the ZST, might get this soon along with soundmagic e80 or the e50s for more bass since you don't get that much with the ZST's. Try to listen to matt mcguires drum covers in youtube and can you please tell me how good the ZST's are. Thanks!


----------



## TheWongWrong

Hey has anyone had a ZST that didn't last more than a few months or so? Just asking cuz most of my limited experience with headphones are with ones that didn't last


----------



## jkaudio

Job done. Put grill in place. Then used fast glue and pin. With pin applied 4 small drops of glue around the grill and left overnight.


----------



## Vidal

thewongwrong said:


> Hey has anyone had a ZST that didn't last more than a few months or so? Just asking cuz most of my limited experience with headphones are with ones that didn't last


 
  
 It depends on how you treat them, buy a case. Always put your earphones away in their case and then they should last years. 
  
 If you're unlucky and you snag a cable whilst listening to them, you can always get another cable for about half the price of the earphones


----------



## TheWongWrong

vidal said:


> It depends on how you treat them, buy a case. Always put your earphones away in their case and then they should last years.
> 
> If you're unlucky and you snag a cable whilst listening to them, you can always get another cable for about half the price of the earphones


 yeah I'm definitely gonna be getting a case but I have met a few people that abuse their earphones without end and they'll still be fine so I just feel like the universe hates me lol. But the replaceable cable is definitely something that I like given my awful luck. I also don't really see much about people's KZs breaking but I have seen lots of complaints about the Zircons so I hope the ZSTs will serve me well(for longer than my Zircons have would be a good start) \(°~°)/


----------



## nplateau

Well I suppose it might come down to my own ears, but I think the ZST definitely wins for details.  The hi hat, snare, etc... have a nice crispness to them with the ZST whereas they are just a bit more muted with the ZS3.  I listened to a couple of Matt McGuire's covers, and I usually prefer the ZST, particularly for that crispness, but you might find that the ZST has quite a bit more sizzle.  It depends on how sensitive to treble you might be, but it's usually not a problem for me.  On the couple of tracks of his that I listened to, the backing music was pretty overpowering and with the ZS3 you would have to concentrate a bit more to pick up the lighter sounds of the cimbals etc.. than you would the ZST because of the added sizzle of the ZST.  That said when I played his Marshmello cover, the sizzle from the ZST was too much for me and it was much smoother with the ZS3.  In terms of soundstage, the ZS3 is wider, and as a result the ZST is actually a bit more accurate for imaging.


----------



## Vidal

In the last few weeks I've listened to a huge number (+40) of sub £30 IEMs. Based on that comparative experience, I would say the ZST has: -
  
 * Fairly intense treble that lends itself to sibilance if it's already present on a track. Not unusual for a hybrid though. If you are treble sensitive and not willing to spend the time adjusting, you should look elsewhere.
  
 * Sub-bass and bass are v.slightly enhanced
  
 * Mids are are a touch forward
  
 * Clarity and detail retrieval are excellent
  
 * Soundstage is v.slightly above average, nothing special. Imaging is excellent within that stage though.
  
 The sound is natural and there are no elements that strike me as being out of place. For their price there are very few earphones that come close to the ZST.


----------



## CoiL

jojaonthebeat said:


> Does the *hi hat *sound along with *snare and crash/ride cymbals too much crisp and sharp* or does it sound natural and smooth?


 
 That`s the one "fault" I have found with ZST - it provides good detail but it seems to have "peak" somewhere up from 7-8kHz and transition between dynamic (high-mids and low-highs) isn`t smooth either. So far have found many great mastered recordings to have too "dry" and "tsss tsss tsss" cymbals/hi-hat/crash/ride and ZST seems to lack littlebit in highs dynamics.
 ZST is not harsh sounding but somewhat bright and with some recordings/instruments has littlebit sibilance (not in vocals, rather in cymbals, hi-sax and such).
 Also, I have found that there is something lacking in low-mids or higher midbass. But maybe it is due to sub-bass being slightly elevated over mid-bass, which may cause some midbass/low-mids detail lost and sub-bass "boom".
 Like I said, ZST seems to be something like W-shaped but in same time different.
  
 Note that these are early impressions with under 50h burn-in and little listening time. Maybe it will improve later but I`d rather go with ATE 5th gen or Magaosi BK50 for Your sound preference.


----------



## Majin

Did KZ improve their ZST? At release people didnt like them and now they are a good buy?


----------



## Vidal

majin said:


> Did KZ improve their ZST? At release people didnt like them and now they are a good buy?


 
  
 I had one of the first batch and it was a very bassy earphone but it was a lot of fun but not brilliant.
  
 They've tamed the bass and made the ZST into a very good budget earphone, they are not the 2nd coming as some would have believe.


----------



## Majin

vidal said:


> I had one of the first batch and it was a very bassy earphone but it was a lot of fun but not brilliant.
> 
> They've tamed the bass and made the ZST into a very good budget earphone, they are not the 2nd coming as some would have believe.


 
 Ah ok i was out for a while since i enjoyed earbuds alot, but if there are some cheap gems out there i would order some


----------



## fickennein

podster said:


> Feel the same about this one


 
 Hey mate, was that silver cable better than the stock cable? If so, what was the improved aspects? Thanks mate.


----------



## loomisjohnson

nplateau said:


> Just received my ZS3 and ZST a couple of days ago.  The ZS3 is warm and smooth, but lacks some detail and clarity.  The bass is not overpowering, but there is a touch of bloat to it.  The ZST on the other hand, are bright, detailed and resolve pretty well.  Bass is tight, fast and articulate, but lacks some oomph.  If I could toss the ZS3 and ZST into a magic box and come out with a pair of IEMs that had the best of each, I'd have a pretty damn fantastic pair of IEMs for $20 (what I paid for both combined).  As it is, I tend to lean more toward the ZST for its crispness and clarity over the ZS3.


 

 +1. the zs3 does trump the zst in midrange quality and overall oomph--combine the best qualities of the two and you'd be set. i do like them both as is, however.


----------



## kokakolia

vidal said:


> In the last few weeks I've listened to a huge number (+40) of sub £30 IEMs. Based on that comparative experience, I would say the ZST has: -
> 
> * Fairly intense treble that lends itself to sibilance if it's already present on a track. Not unusual for a hybrid though. If you are treble sensitive and not willing to spend the time adjusting, you should look elsewhere.
> 
> ...




Thank you so much!!! This is a well written review. Now I know that I won't like the ZSTs (too bright, I want smooth & mellow). 

I just have a hard time imagining noticeably better soundstage than on the ED9s and ED7s. Well, the Marshall Major is slightly better.


----------



## CoiL

kokakolia said:


> Now I know that I won't like the ZSTs (too bright,* I want smooth & mellow*).
> 
> I just have a hard time imagining noticeably *better soundstage than on the ED9s*...


 
 From KZ family, I recommend to try ATE 5th gen - imo better soundstage and imaging than ED9 but lot depends on source gear being used.
 ATR is more refined and detailed (more closer and "in your face" imaging) but soundstage is not much over average.
 Again I have to point one IEM outside of KZ family - Magaosi BK50, for such sound signature preference.


----------



## Kevang

Did KZ update the ZS1 without anyone noticing?
 Just got mine in the mail and they look noticeably different from any of the pictures online
  
 Here's pictures of version 1 (brass nozzle, crossover, speaker w/ grill, memory wire)
http://mysku.ru/blog/aliexpress/36920.html
  
 Here's pictures of version 2 (mesh nozzle, no crossover, speaker w/ grill, memory wire)
http://sopp06.blogspot.com/2016/06/kz-zs1.html
  
 Here's mine (version 3?) :
  
  
 - Neither speaker has the ATE-esque grill, instead both have a green ring.
 - Nozzle is mesh like version 2
  
 And the strangest part is that the memory wire is completely different:
 - There's no cable weight
 - You can't straighten it out or bend it into a specific shape (it retains the ear-hook shape seen in photo)
  
 What's going on?


----------



## B9Scrambler

kevang said:


> Did KZ update the ZS1 without anyone noticing?
> Just got mine in the mail and they look noticeably different from any of the pictures online
> 
> Here's pictures of version 1 (brass nozzle, crossover, speaker w/ grill, memory wire)
> ...


 
  
 Looks like another revision to me! Any chance you can post or pm a link to where you ordered them?


----------



## Kevang

b9scrambler said:


> Looks like another revision to me! Any chance you can post or pm a link to where you ordered them?


 
 Ordered from Topssale Inc. at Amazon  
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NAG6ELQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 (They seem to be like some twin brother store to ShenzhenAudio due to the similar offerings)


----------



## B9Scrambler

kevang said:


> Ordered from Topssale Inc. at Amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NAG6ELQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> (They seem to be like some twin brother store to ShenzhenAudio due to the similar offerings)


 
  
 Thanks for the link! I'll have to see if they have a Canadian Amazon location since they don't ship to Canada.


----------



## Podster

fickennein said:


> Hey mate, was that silver cable better than the stock cable? If so, what was the improved aspects? Thanks mate.


 

 To me the answer is yes but then you have as many if not more who believe there is no difference in the sound of the stock copper and the made for silver! As you know this hobby is so subjective the differences could be compared count wise to Carter's Pills
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have been an enthusiast of great sounding gear and playback for 50 years now (got my first system from an older brother when I was 10) and unlike so many others here I prefer the high end to the low end so naturally I prefer silver to copper even in cables like my tone arm cables but it can get really tricky when you have multiple cables on multiple pieces of gear.
  
 For me I can actually hear a more open and bright presentation with the silver but more than just bright I like to call it crisp, now I will say with a setup like this you can border on sibilant quite often with poorly recorded material but as much as I like some songs if they present the harsh shrill highs in the recording I just avoid loading it up or try to find an alternate version. So I guess my answer to your question is yes. As a matter a fact I got the ZS3 cable in silver too and I'm afraid some might not think the ZS3 is warm and laid back with the silver


----------



## fickennein

podster said:


> To me the answer is yes but then you have as many if not more who believe there is no difference in the sound of the stock copper and the made for silver! As you know this hobby is so subjective the differences could be compared count wise to Carter's Pills:rolleyes: I have been an enthusiast of great sounding gear and playback for 50 years now (got my first system from an older brother when I was 10) and unlike so many others here I prefer the high end to the low end so naturally I prefer silver to copper even in cables like my tone arm cables but it can get really tricky when you have multiple cables on multiple pieces of gear.
> 
> For me I can actually hear a more open and bright presentation with the silver but more than just bright I like to call it crisp, now I will say with a setup like this you can border on sibilant quite often with poorly recorded material but as much as I like some songs if they present the harsh shrill highs in the recording I just avoid loading it up or try to find an alternate version. So I guess my answer to your question is yes. As a matter a fact I got the ZS3 cable in silver too and I'm afraid some might not think the ZS3 is warm and laid back with the silver:blink:




Okay then, silver it is.
Anyway, i saw that u have Topping NX1, do have any problem with it? I had the nx1 and now nx1a, i sold my nx1 because i got a bad channel imbalance even at 50% vol. And after 2 months having the nx1a, i felt the imbalance again, but only with less than 32ohm iem. Do you happen to feel that too?


----------



## Podster

fickennein said:


> Okay then, silver it is.
> Anyway, i saw that u have Topping NX1, do have any problem with it? I had the nx1 and now nx1a, i sold my nx1 because i got a bad channel imbalance even at 50% vol. And after 2 months having the nx1a, i felt the imbalance again, but only with less than 32ohm iem. Do you happen to feel that too?


 

 Not experienced that with my NX1 but then again I have to admit it does not get much play time since I got an NX2. I used it quite a bit the first year I had it and never had any problems, I was never expecting a lot out of a $26 amp but Topping IMO makes a nice budget product. NX2 is not quite a powerful as the NX1 but is (once again IMO) cleaner sounding and does not have any EMI/RFI issues.


----------



## rad7

I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but none of the eartips that came with my colorful ZSTs created a good seal. So, I ordered auvio large silicon tips ($4) and patiently waiting for them so that I can start listening to the ZSTs. I might order the large sprial dots too soon. So, if anyone is not happy with the ZSTs, check to see if the included eartips correctly fit your ear canals or not.


----------



## Drakis

I not sure about the prices, but DZAT DF-10 or VJJB K4 are bassy ones.


----------



## tobar

Ordered the upgrade cable for zs3 because the original didn't work well (problems with jack contacts). Bought on kz Store on Ali Express.. Arrived with two Left plug! However it works, but I can't have a "perfect" pair of zs3!


----------



## Drakis

tobar said:


> Ordered the upgrade cable for zs3 because the original didn't work well (problems with jack contacts). Bought on kz Store on Ali Express.. Arrived with two Left plug! However it works, but I can't have a "perfect" pair of zs3!


 
 You should play the lottery!


----------



## Drakis

Is there any sound difference between the glossy and the matte ZS3?


----------



## fickennein

podster said:


> Not experienced that with my NX1 but then again I have to admit it does not get much play time since I got an NX2. I used it quite a bit the first year I had it and never had any problems, I was never expecting a lot out of a $26 amp but Topping IMO makes a nice budget product. NX2 is not quite a powerful as the NX1 but is (once again IMO) cleaner sounding and does not have any EMI/RFI issues.




Ow yea, NX1 sucks big time on EMI shielding. Sometimes i even need to put my phone 4-5ft away from it.
How's the NX2 dac behave compared to the generic laptop soundcard? Also, was the battery last as long as the nx1?


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> That`s the one "fault" I have found with ZST - it provides good detail but it seems to have "peak" somewhere up from 7-8kHz and transition between dynamic (high-mids and low-highs) isn`t smooth either. So far have found many great mastered recordings to have too "dry" and "tsss tsss tsss" cymbals/hi-hat/crash/ride and ZST seems to lack littlebit in highs dynamics.
> ZST is not harsh sounding but somewhat bright and with some recordings/instruments has littlebit sibilance (not in vocals, rather in cymbals, hi-sax and such).
> Also, I have found that there is something lacking in low-mids or higher midbass. But maybe it is due to sub-bass being slightly elevated over mid-bass, which may cause some midbass/low-mids detail lost and sub-bass "boom".
> Like I said, ZST seems to be something like W-shaped but in same time different.
> ...


 
   
 +1 Yup! That was very pinpoint true! ....I really tried to like the ZST, but not my favorite tuning.
  
 Quote:


coil said:


> From KZ family, I recommend to try ATE 5th gen - imo better soundstage and imaging than ED9 but lot depends on source gear being used.
> ATR is more refined and detailed (more closer and "in your face" imaging) but soundstage is not much over average.
> Again I have to point one IEM outside of KZ family - Magaosi BK50, for such sound signature preference.


 
  
 BIG+1 --> ED9 for its versatility, ATE for that soundstage and imaging, ATR for good refined details, or for all-of-the-above....BK50's!


----------



## Podster

fickennein said:


> Ow yea, NX1 sucks big time on EMI shielding. Sometimes i even need to put my phone 4-5ft away from it.
> How's the NX2 dac behave compared to the generic laptop soundcard? Also, was the battery last as long as the nx1?


 

 I think the battery life is comparable but the NX2 does not have as much power as the NX1 but it sure has enough for anything efficient. I would say the NX2 DAC is better than most laptop internal DAC's but it is no match for better quality DAC's like the Mojo, Chord or Burson.


----------



## fickennein

podster said:


> I think the battery life is comparable but the NX2 does not have as much power as the NX1 but it sure has enough for anything efficient. I would say the NX2 DAC is better than most laptop internal DAC's but it is no match for better quality DAC's like the Mojo, Chord or Burson.



Yea, those priced 10+ times more than topping. I might try the nx2 then.


----------



## Vidal

fickennein said:


> Yea, those priced 10+ times more than topping. I might try the nx2 then.


 
  
 Fiio K1, Q1, E17K, Cambridge Audio XSv2, Dragonfly Black, Cozoy Astrapi or it's Shozy sister.
  
 I've still got the NX2, K1 and Dragonfly - I've owned all of the others part from XSv2 and Shozy. The NX2 would be the bottom of my list I'm afraid.


----------



## VShaft

Got the *ZS3*, after the ATE-S and ZS2.
  
 My initial impression: *WORST. DAMN. CABLE. EVER.*
  
 I was used to the ATE-S and ZS2 "memory cable"... you all know the kind. In any case, that thing worked perfectly for me. And I was shocked to find the ZS3 had an actual wire in the ear "piece". And that wire would not bend correctly, and when eventually shaped, it would always somehow push the unit out of my ear, breaking the seal with any movement of the head. I had either to push them in like crazy (which didn't sound good), or constantly fiddle with my ears. The thing just wouldn't keep a proper seal for more than half a minute.
  
 And just today, I had to spend an extra amount of time in public transit (~2hrs) which is where I listen to a large portion of my music, and I was slowly going crazy with that damn cable - so I ripped the cursed thing right there, with my bare hands. Now, finally, the ZS3 seals without a hitch and remains there.
  
 Ugh. Talk about the cable of nightmares!
  
 As to the sound itself... I don't know, I think I've just learned I kinda prefer darker headphones. Maybe. I don't know if that's the right term, but I found the ZS3 kind of unpleasant to listen to after the ATE-S (my current favorite) and the ZS2. The drum kicks, the guitars, the cymbals, all sound a bit _too_ energetic, fatiguing after some time (at least with the albums I've listened to).
  
 I don't think it's a defective pair, they sound good, I just think it's not my preferred sound signature. But I've only had the for a day, so I'm not taking a definitive stance yet.


----------



## fickennein

vidal said:


> Fiio K1, Q1, E17K, Cambridge Audio XSv2, Dragonfly Black, Cozoy Astrapi or it's Shozy sister.
> 
> I've still got the NX2, K1 and Dragonfly - I've owned all of the others part from XSv2 and Shozy. The NX2 would be the bottom of my list I'm afraid.



The K1 do have a better dac chip than nx2, but i got mixed feeling bout them. And for the dragonfly, it's ouy of my budget right now. Ever tried the sabre hifimediy dac?


----------



## Vidal

fickennein said:


> The K1 do have a better dac chip than nx2, but i got mixed feeling bout them. And for the dragonfly, it's ouy of my budget right now. Ever tried the sabre hifimediy dac?


 
  
 The Q1 has the same chip but more power if you're driving full-size cans. 
  
 Whereabouts are you? I was going to say if you're UK based Richersounds have the Cambridge Audio Dac XS on sale for £50 last time I saw.


----------



## fickennein

vidal said:


> The Q1 has the same chip but more power if you're driving full-size cans.
> 
> Whereabouts are you? I was going to say if you're UK based Richersounds have the Cambridge Audio Dac XS on sale for £50 last time I saw.



Oh yea, i'll look into that Q1 altho im planning to get O2 as an amp, but combo is always nice to have. 
Nope, too bad im at the south east. Far far away from ebay and amazon too. Damn.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

any idea if KZ does have a website ?  i have seen they run a facebook page but i cant find a website .. 
  
 anyone ?


----------



## kokakolia

1clearhead said:


> +1 Yup! That was very pinpoint true! ....I really tried to like the ZST, but not my favorite tuning.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> BIG+1 --> ED9 for its versatility, ATE for that soundstage and imaging, ATR for good refined details, or for all-of-the-above....BK50's!


 
 ED9, versatile!? The treble is so shrill that it makes a lot of tracks sound painful. I challenge you to listen to Mac Demarco without frowning through the ED9s. 
  
 Have you tried the ED7!? It's everything I like from the ED9 minus the awful treble and with less bass. If the ED9s have a "V-shape" signature, the ED7s are perfectly balanced. 
  
 The ED7 are just perfect in my book. 
  
 It's just funny that they're one of the cheapest earbuds from KZ ($6~12), are made out of bamboo and sound "just right" in my opinion.


----------



## Keller1

vshaft said:


> Got the *ZS3*, after the ATE-S and ZS2.
> 
> My initial impression: *WORST. DAMN. CABLE. EVER.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can manually remove the wire with pliers and patience if you find it too annoying - I did that to my pair and it made them very usable.


 I still gave the ZS3 away but that's because i had the ZST.
  
  
 That being said, on a totally different note: It's been febuary in china for over 12 hours now, *WHERE IS THE ZSR* ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

I got lucky with the ZS3's cable. My pair doesn't have memory wire but a preformed guide which does exactly what it needs to do. As much as I love KZ, they really need to cut it out with all the little revisions here and there. Frustrating as heck, especially when you have so many products and so many people discussing them. Opinions are all over the place as a result; ATE is a very good example with it's 900,000 versions.


----------



## khighly

jojaonthebeat said:


> How is the soundstage and imaging between the two? Regarding the ZST do also do you get much detail when in comes to drum sounds? Does the hi hat sound along with snare and crash/ride cymbals too much crisp and sharp or does it sound natural and smooth? love when you say you get detailed sound on the ZST, might get this soon along with soundmagic e80 or the e50s for more bass since you don't get that much with the ZST's. Try to listen to matt mcguires drum covers in youtube and can you please tell me how good the ZST's are. Thanks!


 
 I love percussion and listen to songs mostly for...percussion. The ZST really is outstanding with snares, hats, splashes, cymbals, everything.


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> I love percussion and listen to songs mostly for...percussion. The ZST really is outstanding with snares, hats, splashes, cymbals, everything.


 
 Hmmm... I think opposite (like we almost all the time are with khighly) - it`s the main fault in ZST sound and weakest point. And I`m certainly not the only one. 
 After they have had about 80h playtime, my opinion still stays same. Auvio tips will improve highs slightly but not much improvement or "cure".
  


1clearhead said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > That`s the one "fault" I have found with ZST - it provides good detail but it seems to have "peak" somewhere up from 7-8kHz and transition between dynamic (high-mids and low-highs) isn`t smooth either. So far have found many great mastered recordings to have too "dry" and "tsss tsss tsss" cymbals/hi-hat/crash/ride and ZST seems to lack littlebit in highs dynamics.
> ...


 
  
 But lot depends on source gear, genre preference, sound signature preference, file quality etc. and KZ QC & production differences could affect impressions from different ppl too.
 So far haven`t heard ppl having different sounding ZST colorfuls and even later production black vs. colorful seems to be same sounding by latest impressions from who have both.
  
 Like I already recommended, for such sound preference, go rather with Magaosi BK50. I`m also not only one who says good about them.


loomisjohnson said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > Not always. The first IEM that comes into my mind is Magaosi BK50, like I already recommended to asker. Big "holographic" soundstage, good layering, great imaging, smooth highs and overall sound but details come out very well almost in every frequency region. Only bass area sounds littlebit "soft" and has less details/crispiness but still has nice quality and presence.
> ...


 
 Those who I`m quoting are pretty well known head-fiers and have experience (more than I do with cheap chi-fi and even higher gear). Just say`n
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 ZST do sound very good but they have their faults. I`m trying to be objective and not run subjective hype train.
  
 JMHSO


----------



## Vidal

coil said:


> Like I already recommended, for such sound preference, go rather with Magaosi BK50. I`m also not only one who says good about them.
> 
> JMHSO


 
  
 To be fair this the KZ thread so it's more likely that the audience will be more positive towards the ZST over other earphones. Whilst I did have an overwhelmingly positive opinion of the sound of the BK50s, their build quality wasn't as good as the ZST. Based on a small sample that passed through my hands (4 or 5) I would say that 50% of the BKs had some sort of visual defect, usually relating to the wood finish.
  
 Personally I hated the look of them as the cable had a rose gold sheen.


----------



## blackbelt730

Wait, the ZSR comes out this month? What is it supposed to be like and price range?


----------



## SomePeasant

kevang said:


> Did KZ update the ZS1 without anyone noticing?
> Just got mine in the mail and they look noticeably different from any of the pictures online
> 
> Here's pictures of version 1 (brass nozzle, crossover, speaker w/ grill, memory wire)
> ...


 
 Yeah my ZS1's are the same as yours, no memory wire or cable weight and metal nozzle. I noticed some of the earlier reviews had the brass nozzle and thought that odd or i received wrong version.
  
 I have to say they are my current fave compared to ZST, ZS3 and ATE. Much more comfortable then the others and easier/quicker to get on and off. They still sound clear and bassy even if seal is lost which i sometimes prefer depending on the song (bass head). For my ears the sound stage sitting between the ZS3 and ZST and the base is better defined/separated between sub and mids than the ZS3 probably due to the two DD.
  
 Not too much talk about the ZS1's on the thread lately, what do you think of the sound?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

blackbelt730 said:


> Wait, the ZSR comes out this month? What is it supposed to be like and price range?




It is more like "we know it's in development so maybe it'll come out after Chinese new year" thinking.


----------



## MAntunes

robervaul said:


> It is not available yet, they will release it after Chinese New Year. It is expected to be available on Feb.
> The retail price is around 599 RMB (90 USD).
> They are going to high class.


 
  


hoerlurar said:


> Where did you get that info?


 
@robervaul said this a few days ago..


----------



## VShaft

keller1 said:


> You can manually remove the wire with pliers and patience if you find it too annoying - I did that to my pair and it made them very usable.


 
  
 You can also do it with impatience and your bare hands. That's how I did it, and yes, they become very usable. Though I still prefer the older brownish cables of other KZ models. This dark blue one of the ZS3 is a bit stiffer in comparison.


----------



## kokakolia

vidal said:


> To be fair this the KZ thread so it's more likely that the audience will be more positive towards the ZST over other earphones.




But how exactly did the ZST get so much hype on this thread!?

From what I read, they sound bright (too bright for some people). So it's not like the sound signature is suitable for everyone. Someone also said that the ZSTs sound really bad on bad recordings. Well, there goes 1/2 of my collection right there! 

Some poor soul will buy the ZSTs and be terribly disappointed. It's not unlike me with the ED9s. 

I just want to know what ZST owners listen to.


----------



## fredhubbard2

kokakolia said:


> But how exactly did the ZST get so much hype on this thread!?
> 
> From what I read, they sound bright (too bright for some people). So it's not like the sound signature is suitable for everyone. Someone also said that the ZSTs sound really bad on bad recordings. Well, there goes 1/2 of my collection right there!
> 
> ...




Well you cannot please all the people all the time, but if you like big soundstage, fairly good detail and fairly tight bass they are amazing for the price. Its not kz's fault your music collection isn't up to scratch. no one is forcing anyone to buy them. I inly paid £10 for mine hardly a great loss if I thought they were rubbish. They're not mind


----------



## Saoshyant

kokakolia said:


> But how exactly did the ZST get so much hype on this thread!?
> 
> From what I read, they sound bright (too bright for some people). So it's not like the sound signature is suitable for everyone. Someone also said that the ZSTs sound really bad on bad recordings. Well, there goes 1/2 of my collection right there!
> 
> ...


 
  
 You either have to be one of two types when it comes to listening to bad recordings.  You either just accept there are flaws with the recording and enjoy the music, or you don't use something detail-oriented which accentuates the flaws.  I personally prefer to focus on the fact that I love this album even with it's flaws.
  
 The reason I bought the ZST is my first couple experiences with Hybrids were unsatisfying.  I found the Dunu DN-1000 somewhat lifeless no matter what I tried, and the Astrotec AX-35 flat out boring, not sure why I haven't given it away by now actually.  After a few years I figured I'd give hybrids a shot again with a rather expensive one, which ended up being a basshead hybrid that quite caught me by surprise.  With various companies producing truly budget hybrids like the ZST and Urbanfun, I figured I'd see without much risk if something inexpensive might have a sound I enjoy, which the ZST does.  It's detail quality for the price is decent, but still certainly has a fun sound to it which I prefer.
  
 As far as a sound signature suitable for everyone, that just doesn't exist.  Everyone has different tastes, where an iem might have too much bass for one person, and too little for others.  And of course the same goes for treble levels.  You can't please everyone all the time.
  
 Edit:  Having finished the poorly recorded album I was using for reference, I really don't feel like ZST is going to murder a bad recording, although the flaws will be exposed.  So at that point, it's just a matter of how picky you are.  All in all, was quite an enjoyable listen for a mid-90s alternative album.


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> But how exactly did the ZST get so much hype on this thread!?
> 
> From what I read, they sound bright (too bright for some people). So it's not like the sound signature is suitable for everyone. Someone also said that the ZSTs sound really bad on bad recordings. Well, there goes 1/2 of my collection right there!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Every person is different, also people's experience with other earphones will also differ. It's all subjective, there are no definitives when it comes to this sort of thing.
  
 To those who are sensitive to treble either due to lack of experience with brighter earphones or just by the fact they can't hack brightness the ZST will be too bright. I can handle brightness so the ZST are fine with me.
  
 ZSTs are good earphones especially for their price, however I've heard more earphones than most people so I also know that these aren't perfect, soundstage isn't as wide as it could be. If your experience is limited to the ZST and some crappy Skullcandies then yes they'll seem like something special.
  
 As for sounding bad with poor recordings, they're accurate so you'll hear what's recorded warts and all. Time to upgrade your collection to better recordings.


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> To those who are sensitive to treble either due to lack of experience with brighter earphones or just by the fact they can't hack brightness the ZST will be too bright. I can handle brightness so the ZST are fine with me.
> 
> ZSTs are good earphones especially for their price, however I've heard more earphones than most people so I also know that these aren't perfect, soundstage isn't as wide as it could be. If your experience is limited to the ZST and some crappy Skullcandies then yes they'll seem like something special.




ZST aren't bright. An isolated 10khz peak in the highs is not brightness, it is dreadful tuning. Nobody complained about their brightness if i am not mistaken. 

To me they aren't worth the money, for what they cost me on 11//11 at reduced price I could buy myself today a backup pair of both LG Quadbeat 3 and HTC One M7 which would have been money much better spent.

Hopefully the Urbanfun HiFi I have on order will not prove a similar disappointing purchase. :rolleyes:


----------



## rad7

I have the colorful ZSTs and love them so far.
  
 I want to try another KZ product with a different sound signature. Maybe something a little less bright, with less treble and slightly more bass.I am thinking ED10 or ZS3. I am leaning towards ED10s as they are cheap & have a traditional design (which I prefer). 
  
 Does anyone has an experience with ED10? Or are there any other good alternatives?


----------



## CoiL

kokakolia said:


> I just want to know what ZST owners listen to.


 
 Pretty much everything except typical pop-hits from music channels and radio that are heavily compressed and less detailed. I think I can call myself half-time melomaniac but most of my favourites are listed on my profile, check it.
  


fredhubbard2 said:


> ...but if you like *big* soundstage, ...


 
 Another thing I couldn`t say about ZST. It`s over average for sure but I can`t call it having big soundstage. Maybe fairly big would be more appropriate. They do have better "airiness" and reverb/decay than **** 4in1, a thing I found 4in1 lacking.


----------



## fredhubbard2

coil said:


> Pretty much everything except typical pop-hits from music channels and radio that are heavily compressed and less detailed. I think I can call myself half-time melomaniac but most of my favourites are listed on my profile, check it.
> 
> Another thing I couldn`t say about ZST. It`s over average for sure but I can`t call it having big soundstage. Maybe fairly big would be more appropriate. They do have better "airiness" and reverb/decay than **** 4in1, a thing I found 4in1 lacking.




I have spiral dot tips on mine. Maybe thats helping


----------



## CoiL

I tried also spirals too but Auvio tips gave me best result. Though, I haven`t tried some tips out of my ~40 collection but from experience with tip-rolling I doubt it will improve with other tips I haven`t tried. Btw, I`m using spirals with 4in1 for best result.


----------



## loomisjohnson

rad7 said:


> I have the colorful ZSTs and love them so far.
> 
> I want to try another KZ product with a different sound signature. Maybe something a little less bright, with less treble and slightly more bass.I am thinking ED10 or ZS3. I am leaning towards ED10s as they are cheap & have a traditional design (which I prefer).
> 
> Does anyone has an experience with ED10? Or are there any other good alternatives?


 

 either be a good choice--ed10 has good overall clarity with big, impactful bass, though soundstage is not as large as zst or zs3. zs3 definitely has more bass and less treble extension/detail than the zst as well.


----------



## Vidal

chickenmoon said:


> ZST aren't bright. An isolated 10khz peak in the highs is not brightness, it is dreadful tuning. Nobody complained about their brightness if i am not mistaken.
> 
> To me they aren't worth the money, for what they cost me on 11//11 at reduced price I could buy myself today a backup pair of both LG Quadbeat 3 and HTC One M7 which would have been money much better spent.
> 
> Hopefully the Urbanfun HiFi I have on order will not prove a similar disappointing purchase.


 
  
 I bought a pair of the LG's following your recommendation, I wasn't that impressed to be frank.  Tuning on them is fairly neutral if that's your thing and they are a good looking well made pair of earphones but nothing awe inspiring other than the price. Maybe that seller has now switched to selling copies?
  
 ZST are a bright headphone if you compare them to a Kinera for example, and they're certainly in the top 30% of 40 earphones I've listened to in the last few weeks. However, I was simply referencing the fact that *Kokakolia *said people were saying they were too bright.
  
 You're right about peak at 10kHz and I think that's what @Coil is referring too as well, doesn't bother me too much though, a shade lower and it would have got right on my nerves though.


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> I bought a pair of the LG's following your recommendation, I wasn't that impressed to be frank.  Tuning on them is fairly neutral if that's your thing and they are a good looking well made pair of earphones but nothing awe inspiring other than the price. Maybe that seller has now switched to selling copies




Give them a chance on a higher end setup after some burnin time, that's where they really shine IMO, on my old so so Sony DAP they are OK but nothing too special as the DAP is the bottleneck in sound quality. I don't think he sells copies but you never know, I bought 4 pairs in all and they are all OK. As for sound I think they are V-shaped but with strong bass that doesn't bleed much or at all and also rather bright but without sibilance.

If you've got another £4 to waste, you can try those HTC One M7: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271370870299?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. Same story as above but different tuning, strong bass too but a bit more mids and a bit less highs. To me they are both outstanding, especially for the peanuts they cost, considering that my much more expensive Fidelio S2 aren't delivering more quality on my best setup which is good.

I don't seek necessarily a neutral sound but rather something that sounds full with nothing too recessed in the spectrum. Of the KZ I have I like ED9 with brass nozzles the most .


----------



## Vidal

Tried them with a Shanling M1 and my Cozoy Aegis/iPhone setup, I think both of these are pretty decent. It was the 'lack' of treble with the LGs - so I think the HTC will be more of the same.
  
 I need my treble fix, but I also like a wide soundstage.
  
  
 In other news I now have EDR2, HDS1, HDS3, ZS2, ED9 to 'review' along with ZN1 and QKZ DM200 on route from China. It's like going through a 'band you've just discovered's back catalogue


----------



## bhazard

The ZST works great for late night PS4 gaming right out of the controller amp. Sounds better than most Turtle Beach headsets.


----------



## chickenmoon

vidal said:


> Tried them with a Shanling M1 and my Cozoy Aegis/iPhone setup, I think both of these are pretty decent. It was the 'lack' of treble with the LGs - so I think the HTC will be more of the same.
> 
> I need my treble fix, but I also like a wide soundstage.




In a sense, although not lacking in treble overall IMO, the LG is the opposite of the ZST as it has a recessed 10khz band while it is boosted in the ZST, but than the LG has everything else the ZST hasn't, a no brainer for me to choose which is best really. 

The HTC feels more like a ZS3 on steroids to me, bigger "soundstage" than the LG and fuller sounding than the ZS3. I only have them since earlier today though so it's just first impressions without actually comparing to other phones as they haven't left my ears since I got them.


----------



## kokakolia

vidal said:


> Tried them with a Shanling M1 and my Cozoy Aegis/iPhone setup, I think both of these are pretty decent. It was the 'lack' of treble with the LGs - so I think the HTC will be more of the same.
> 
> I need my treble fix, but I also like a wide soundstage.
> 
> ...




I am looking forward to it! 

It's like you're doing your earnest to review everything but the ED7 haha. 

To be perfectly honest, you may not like them. I could see why someone would find them dull. They lack the sparkle in the treble.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chickenmoon said:


> In a sense, although not lacking in treble overall IMO, the LG is the opposite of the ZST as it has a recessed 10khz band while it is boosted in the ZST, but than the LG has everything else the ZST hasn't, a no brainer for me to choose which is best really.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can't comment on the LG, but I've had a pair of the HTC's for a year or so. They stay tucked away in the bag of iems I offer as gifts. No one wants them and neither do I. They're not bad, but they lack any sense of excitement. They're a dull listen to my ears. Build is kinda mediocre too. I'd take any the cheapo Kubite-001M and most KZ's over them any day.


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> It's like you're doing your earnest to review everything but the ED7 haha.


 
  
 Well, I might get round to them eventually. That list is just the KZ stuff


----------



## chickenmoon

b9scrambler said:


> Can't comment on the LG, but I've had a pair of the HTC's for a year or so. They stay tucked away in the bag of iems I offer as gifts. No one wants them and neither do I. They're not bad, but they lack any sense of excitement. They're a dull listen to my ears. Build is kinda mediocre too. I'd take any the cheapo Kubite-001M and most KZ's over them any day.




There are lots of fake HTC out there and most don't sound good as far as I've been able to piece together, those I got today surely don't lack any sense of excitement and sound great. I agree that cable, mic and plug look a bit cheap, phones themselves seem much better quality however.


----------



## B9Scrambler

chickenmoon said:


> There are lots of fake HTC out there and most don't sound good as far as I've been able to piece together, those I got today surely don't lack any sense of excitement and sound great. I agree that cable, mic and plug look a bit cheap, phones themselves seem much better quality however.




I doubt HTC is packing fakes in with their phones


----------



## chickenmoon

b9scrambler said:


> I doubt HTC is packing fakes in with their phones




Well then it must be the fit I guess. They require shallow fit like the MH1. If I push them a tiny bit to deep into my ear canals, bass and treble go away and I am left with totally dull sounding low volume mids. 

Or maybe mine are fakes that sound much better than the originals...


----------



## Vidal

I think we probably need to stop discussing non-KZ earphones in here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Can anyone point me in the direction of sellers with really, really old school KZ stuff?


----------



## kokakolia

vidal said:


> I think we probably need to stop discussing non-KZ earphones in here.




Well, I respectfully disagree. One needs to draw comparisons between headphones to have an idea. But I agree that it's easy to go off topic.


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> Well, I respectfully disagree. One needs to draw comparisons between headphones to have an idea. But I agree that it's easy to go off topic.


 
  
 My bad, there should have been a wink smilie in that post, it was meant tongue in cheek


----------



## loomisjohnson

vidal said:


> I bought a pair of the LG's following your recommendation, I wasn't that impressed to be frank.  Tuning on them is fairly neutral if that's your thing and they are a good looking well made pair of earphones but nothing awe inspiring other than the price. Maybe that seller has now switched to selling copies?
> 
> ZST are a bright headphone if you compare them to a Kinera for example, and they're certainly in the top 30% of 40 earphones I've listened to in the last few weeks. However, I was simply referencing the fact that *Kokakolia *said people were saying they were too bright.
> 
> You're right about peak at 10kHz and I think that's what @Coil is referring too as well, doesn't bother me too much though, a shade lower and it would have got right on my nerves though.


 
 my notes on the LG from a few years ago:
 a very competent, refined IEM with no material flaws aside from a lack of "wow." Slightly dark sounding to me; bass is very quick and tight, though the high end could stand a little more extension/sizzle. Very comfortable and well made.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Does anyone have a frequency response chart for the ZST lol


----------



## bartzky

thewongwrong said:


> Does anyone have a frequency response chart for the ZST lol


----------



## TheWongWrong

bartzky said:


>


wow didn't think it'd be *that* treble-y, that treble figure is higher than Seth Rogen when he's with Snoop. Good Lord, thanks btw


----------



## bartzky

thewongwrong said:


> wow didn't think it'd be *that* treble-y, that treble figure is higher than Seth Rogen when he's with Snoop. Good Lord, thanks btw


 
 Your welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please mind the small dB-scale on the left and that this measurement is uncompensated. So it might appear worse than it actually is. Most people export more zoomed out pictures with much bigger dB-scales on the y-axis. Furthermore the smoothing is only 1/48 oct. so it will appear more "peaky" than e.g. a 1/6 oct. smoothing.
  
 You can find some other measurements for comparison here: http://headflux.de/messungen/


----------



## 1clearhead

kokakolia said:


> ED9, versatile!? The treble is so shrill that it makes a lot of tracks sound painful. I challenge you to listen to Mac Demarco without frowning through the ED9s.
> 
> Have you tried the ED7!? It's everything I like from the ED9 minus the awful treble and with less bass. If the ED9s have a "V-shape" signature, the ED7s are perfectly balanced.
> 
> ...


 

 That depends, the ED9 sounds great with aftermarket tips like the Auvio medium silicone tips mounted on the gold tuning nozzles. But, you got me curious not jumping on the Bamboo ED7's earlier.
  
 Do you have the smaller KD7 version? Or the bigger one? ....I might just buy one when I recuperate from my vacation last month.


----------



## chickenmoon

1clearhead said:


> That depends, the ED9 sounds great with aftermarket tips like the Auvio medium silicone tips mounted on the gold tuning nozzles. But, you got me curious not jumping on the Bamboo ED7's earlier.
> 
> Do you have the smaller KD7 version? Or the bigger one? ....I might just buy one when I recuperate from my vacation last month.




FWIW, I find the ED9 with brass nozzles and the big ED7 very similar in tuning but with the ED7 having more bass, 5 to 10dB, not really sure how much exactly.


----------



## 1clearhead

Sorry, wrong post.


----------



## kokakolia

1clearhead said:


> That depends, the ED9 sounds great with aftermarket tips like the Auvio medium silicone tips mounted on the gold tuning nozzles. But, you got me curious not jumping on the Bamboo ED7's earlier.
> 
> Do you have the smaller KD7 version? Or the bigger one? ....I might just buy one when I recuperate from my vacation last month.




I got the bigger version. I am using the stock tips. Just the plain old' ED7s. The bamboo is a nice touch. It beats having heavy metal ear pieces falling out of your ear. 

I love them! They're tuned perfectly without shenanigans with the bass & treble (like with ED9s). I would say buy them, but if you like the ED9s then the ED7s might sound dull in comparison. They have no sizzle in the treble, and that's why I like them.


----------



## kramercosmo

Hello,
  
 I have both Ate and Zs3, i really love the Ate but Zs3 dosn't really fit, and the cable is bad.
  
 i have a few questions.
  
 1. have anyone else the problem i have with Zs3?. Is Zst better fitting for you?.
  
 2. Does the cable of Zst or Ed12 fit the Zs3?.
  
 3. Is the Atr worth getting if i alredy have ates?.
  
 Thanks!.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I found the ZS3 better fitting than my ATR.  But I can see how the ZS3 might not fit as well since it takes up more space and tries to conform to your outer ear canal.
  
 ZST has a bend in the detachable cable, ZS3 has a straight plug.  Don't think they are compatible despite both being two pin designs.


----------



## khighly

kramercosmo said:


> 3. Is the Atr worth getting if i alredy have ates?.


 
 I personally wouldn't. The ATE's are more neutral sounding, with less of a soundstage, but they have more frequency extension in both directions. ATR's are the second worst of the KZ range I've tried. I'd recommend the Tennmak Pro's over the ATR's any day. But that's $4 vs $22.
  
 A ton of ZST hate in the last few pages! They're only $15 - do yourself a favor and buy them . If you look through the thread, almost nobody who actually has them says they're bad


----------



## Saoshyant

Nothing wrong with a little bit of ZST hate if the person feels that way.  It gives an honest impression so people can make a more informed decision.


----------



## CoiL

bartzky said:


> thewongwrong said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have a frequency response chart for the ZST lol


 
 Heh, that`s quite same looking graph I`ve been describing - highs peak up from 7-8kHz and sub-bass boost that little overshadows higher midbass details and low-mids
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice to know I`m hearing things correctly.
  
  


khighly said:


> kramercosmo said:
> 
> 
> > 3. Is the Atr worth getting if i alredy have ates?.
> ...


 
  
 1) I`m the only one who has them and "says they are bad"? I have NOT said it and pointed out ZST faults objectively!
  
 2) About ATR vs. ATE - ATE 5th gen actually has bigger soundstage for sure (if we take out KZ QC and BQ differences) while ATR is more refined and detailed, in some sense also more balanced. Sorry if ATR is second worst to You but if You follow this thread then many respected reviewers say mostly only good thing about ATR and are very pleased with it.


----------



## Vidal

Well one of my ZS3 has decided to go a bit fubar, the cable is a bit loose and it's cutting out occasionally. As it happens my **** DT2s also broke this week.
  
 If I can get into the ZS3 I'll try dropping the drivers from the **** into the ZS3, anyone know if the ZS3 uses heat sensitive glue?


----------



## Shawn71

khighly said:


> I personally wouldn't. The ATE's are more neutral sounding, with less of a soundstage, but they have more frequency extension in both directions. ATR's are the second worst of the KZ range I've tried. I'd recommend the Tennmak Pro's over the ATR's any day. But that's $4 vs $22.
> 
> A ton of ZST hate in the last few pages! They're only $15 - do yourself a favor and buy them . If you look through the thread, almost nobody who actually has them says they're bad




Nah like saoshyant said theres nothing wrong people posting their thoughts/impressions what they hear and yes it shd contain both +ve & -ve sides,honestly........just like you trash the $4 atr even now. 

I dont see anyone targeting you when you still claim atr IS worst but sametime dont understand who you are targeting this time abt someone who dislikes his zst pair?


----------



## Shawn71

vidal said:


> Well one of my ZS3 has decided to go a bit fubar, the cable is a bit loose and it's cutting out occasionally. As it happens my **** DT2s also broke this week.
> 
> If I can get into the ZS3 I'll try dropping the drivers from the **** into the ZS3, anyone know if the ZS3 uses heat sensitive glue?




Thats quite interesting......I have a feeling that zs3 driver might be smaller in dia to the ****'s(DD).


----------



## loomisjohnson

kokakolia said:


> I got the bigger version. I am using the stock tips. Just the plain old' ED7s. The bamboo is a nice touch. It beats having heavy metal ear pieces falling out of your ear.
> 
> I love them! They're tuned perfectly without shenanigans with the bass & treble (like with ED9s). I would say buy them, but if you like the ED9s then the ED7s might sound dull in comparison. They have no sizzle in the treble, and that's why I like them.


 

 i have the complete opposite taste--the ed7 was the first kz that didn't wow me in some way--they have a pleasant high end but somewhat undisciplined lows + the build quality was uncharacteristically slapdash. i ended up giving them to my mailman, who likes 'em. the ed9 on the other hand, remains my main beyootch--i just don't perceive the treble brightness that others have complained of. vive le difference!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Well, if we stop talking about it and ignore the problem, it'll go away. That and flag the offensive posts. Problem solved!
  
          ​  ​ The LPs with Brainwavz HM5 Hybrid pads sounds completely bad@$$ btw. Cleans up that mid-bass bloom and brings up the treble considerably. For any of those KZ elders that have stuck around and have a headphone from this series, those pads will breath some new life into them


----------



## Vidal

shawn71 said:


> Thats quite interesting......I have a feeling that zs3 driver might be smaller in dia to the ****'s(DD).


 
  
 Nothing lost by giving it a go, haven't managed to get into them yet, been busy building some earbuds


----------



## kokakolia

loomisjohnson said:


> i have the complete opposite taste--the ed7 was the first kz that didn't wow me in some way--they have a pleasant high end but somewhat undisciplined lows + the build quality was uncharacteristically slapdash. i ended up giving them to my mailman, who likes 'em. the ed9 on the other hand, remains my main beyootch--i just don't perceive the treble brightness that others have complained of. vive le difference!


 
 I really appreciate this kind of feedback because someone might ask me for earphone advice. 
  
 I am glad that you found the perfect KZ earphone for you!


----------



## Keller1

Any news on ZSR? Maybe Announcement on Monday?


----------



## TheVortex

I'm also eagerly awaiting an update for the ZSR. I might as well make the ZSR my first KZ earphone


----------



## Thomas De Brito

keller1 said:


> Any news on ZSR? Maybe Announcement on Monday?


we might get an announcement where they announce that they are still working on it and we will have to wait a month


----------



## metonedeaf

Having read the forum for quite sometime, I decided that the only way to enjoy the reviews was to actually purchase the earphone. So I ended up purchasing the ED9 and then the ZST a week after. 





What can I say about the KZs? They are nice earphone although the silicone tip on both of them are not airtight, especially when compared to zero audio (which I owned a couple).

I listen to jazz (earl klugh, david benoit, rippington, george benson) and I think they sounded great on the zst. When I'm listening to pop (lionel richie, phil collins, and whatever current music my son made me listen) the ED9 provide enough bass and high frequencis to make me want to dance, well almost.

Overall, not bad earphones. The price isn't bad at all. Thanks for those who made reviews and gave opinions on the KZ earphone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mus1c

HEY has somebody heard about about the kz zsr I've been wondering about a quite sometime if Kz zsr has released.


----------



## Mus1c

Im hate my atr all this time it sound bad after hearing from aukey ep-b4 (blutooth earphones) it has more forward sound than this thing and alot of bass, it worthless thing that I've bought,i need recommendations guys.


----------



## Mus1c

KZ ATR TRASH cuz it sell below kz ate and doesn't upgrade the sound its just plain cheap iem with nothing to be impress on.


----------



## Ruben123

mus1c said:


> KZ ATR TRASH cuz it sell below kz ate and doesn't upgrade the sound its just plain cheap iem with nothing to be impress on.




Judging your posts makes me wondering about your age. Not that it matters of course but you might receive more help if you just would reply a bit more civilised. 
ATR isn't my cup of tea either but it certainly is not bad. It's one of the best kzs actually. It's a real average Joe! Does nothing bad, does nothing good either. Which is actually great really, it makes the Atr a great universal iem.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> KZ ATR TRASH cuz it sell below kz ate and doesn't upgrade the sound its just plain cheap iem with nothing to be impress on.


 
  
 I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. ATR is great and imo is a straight upgrade over the ATE. You should also upgrade your profile so it matches your opinions...
  
​  
  
​


----------



## Mus1c

ruben123 said:


> Judging your posts makes me wondering about your age. Not that it matters of course but you might receive more help if you just would reply a bit more civilised.
> ATR isn't my cup of tea either but it certainly is not bad. It's one of the best kzs actually. It's a real average Joe! Does nothing bad, does nothing good either. Which is actually great really, it makes the Atr a great universal iem.


 hey telling the truth here this iem does sound really bad when compared to another iem which i recently test on. After im hearing from other iem and comeback took a listen for it, it just sound like rubbish nothing is happening what i mean like where the bass all kind of that stuff and felt mad.With that beig said This iem can't compare with anything else that I've heard before


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> KZ ATR TRASH cuz it sell below kz ate and doesn't upgrade the sound its just plain cheap iem with nothing to be impress on.


 
  
 Eloquent review and despite your well reasoned argument I'll have to disagree.
  
 ATR is a cracker for the money IMO


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. ATR is great and imo is a straight upgrade over the ATE. You should also upgrade your profile so it matches your opinions...
> 
> 
> ​
> ...


i said to you i will delete this profile pic cuz i hate em. Will change probably soon after i get the zst.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. ATR is great and imo is a straight upgrade over the ATE. You should also upgrade your profile so it matches your opinions...
> 
> 
> ​
> ...


 hey maybe isn't my cup of tea for awhile


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. ATR is great and imo is a straight upgrade over the ATE. You should also upgrade your profile so it matches your opinions...
> 
> 
> ​
> ...


 Donezo


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> Eloquent review and despite your well reasoned argument I'll have to disagree.
> 
> ATR is a cracker for the money IMO


 that is my opinion don't get offended with it.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I am more confused with how you say you love KZ but the only KZ you have is one you hate.


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> I am more confused with how you say you love KZ but the only KZ you have is one you hate.


 I mean i love all of them but the kz atr was the one that i hated because the sound quality and signature was pretty not my cup of tea.At first when i listen to this iem i already don't like it because it is not as imagined as kz ate which i like the most.i only act like i like the kz atr but im not because i hated it,and after a few month i came across amazon to buy the Bluetooth earphones and i loved them.At first when i got it into and put into my ear it just blew my mind it just full my expectations that been waiting for and than i started to compared to my kz atr it was horrible the atr sound flat just like nothing is happening no bass no what so ever and then im not using for a quite a while i just leave it alone.


----------



## Podster

mus1c said:


> I mean i love all of them but the kz atr was the one that i hated because the sound quality and signature was pretty not my cup of tea.At first when i listen to this iem i already don't like it because it is not as imagined as kz ate which i like the most.i only act like i like the kz atr but im not because i hated it,and after a few month i came across amazon to buy the Bluetooth earphones and i loved them.At first when i got it into and put into my ear it just blew my mind it just full my expectations that been waiting for and than i started to compared to my kz atr it was horrible the atr sound flat just like nothing is happening no bass no what so ever and then im not using for a quite a while i just leave it alone.


 

 So you may have gotten a bad pair of ATR as KZ has been known to have a QC issue now and then but ATR as B9 said is the refinement of the entire AT line and mine work perfectly. Remember we all hear our iems differently but no need to continue to bash or insult others who plainly express how they hear them. WE know how you feel so why not move on unless you really are looking for debate


----------



## Mus1c

podster said:


> So you may have gotten a bad pair of ATR as KZ has been known to have a QC issue now and then but ATR as B9 said is the refinement of the entire AT line and mine work perfectly. Remember we all hear our iems differently but no need to continue to bash or insult others who plainly express how they hear them. WE know how you feel so why not move on unless you really are looking for debate


 all rights i'll just move on now,im stop talking about kz atr from now on. I will buy another kz which I've been wanted for so long the kz zst with silver cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

I do have to wonder. Let's say someone mentions multiple times they love a particular KZ, like the ZST. Do you all tell them that you know how they feel and to move on, or is that reserved for negative opinions.

While you may not agree with the negative opinion, there is still some validity to it.


----------



## crabdog

I think ATR is pretty amazing for the price.
  






 lol


----------



## chinmie

mus1c said:


> hey telling the truth here this iem does sound really bad when compared to another iem which i recently test on. After im hearing from other iem and comeback took a listen for it, it just sound like rubbish nothing is happening what i mean like where the bass all kind of that stuff and felt mad.With that beig said This iem can't compare with anything else that I've heard before


 
  
 I do understand your point of view. lately i've been collecting earbuds because i found out for my personal preference, i like it better than iem. After listening to them and coming back to the ATR, it did sound muted and unexciting...
  
 but...
  
 from what i learn, i felt like that because the other earphones pushed my ear to fatigueness, and returning to the ATR (which is relatively flat across the frequencies) made my ears and brain looking for something that is missing.
  
 try this next time: listen to the ATR, and just let your ear adjust for just a song or two (because adjusting to something louder/ higher amount in frequency is easier than going softer). you will find out that the ATR is something special all along.
  
 this is my conclusion about the ATR:
 1. this is probably the safest iem/ earphones for the ear (in my collection, at least). because of no boosted frequencies, especially on high freq. in my experience, treble happy earphones is bad for the hearing in the long run. you can listen to this iem for a longer session and in a relatively higher volume than other earphones
 2. if you think the bass is lacking, try bigger sized tips, or better yet, try other brand of tips. i personally use the sony's on my ATR. the ATR has ample amount of bass. I did the frequency sweep test on the ATR and i can hear and feel it rumble down to 20hz


----------



## kokakolia

sometechnoob said:


> I am more confused with how you say you love KZ but the only KZ you have is one you hate.


 
 ...That's the problem with KZ is that they have too many earphones with different sound profiles. This thread is over-hyping the max out of the ZSTs, ED9s and other bright sounding earphones. Add a silver cable and you have something even more brighter. Reading this thread, I can't help to think: MOOOARRR!!! TREBLE!!!!!! YEAHH!!


----------



## 1clearhead

crabdog said:


> I think ATR is pretty amazing for the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....thanks for sharing some popcorn.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I too like the ATR, but I find myself reaching for my ZS3 for the better clarity almost every time.


----------



## kokakolia

crabdog said:


> I think ATR is pretty amazing for the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, maybe. But a lot of earphones are pretty amazing for the price. Now it's a question of "how cheap do you want to be?". And the ATR is very cheap indeed. But is $50 that expensive for a set of earphones? You get to step up in tier by spending a little more cash. 
  
 Here's a few examples:
  
 - Zero Audio carbo tenore ($43)
 - Maeshall Major ($50)
 - ...well, I can't think of anything else because I just got into IEMs


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> ...That's the problem with KZ is that they have too many earphones with different sound profiles. This thread is over-hyping the max out of the ZSTs, ED9s and other bright sounding earphones. Add a silver cable and you have something even more brighter. Reading this thread, I can't help to think: MOOOARRR!!! TREBLE!!!!!! YEAHH!!


 
  
 People are right to hype both of those earphones. If you can handle treble then they are both a great choice.
  
 To buy the right headphone you first have to understand what you're sound signature preference is. You now know that you can't do strong treble so pick darker sounding headphones, I would suggest you try: -
  
 Kinera BD05
 Tennmak Cello
 Tennmak Pro
 LZ A2S
  
 I found all of the above to not have quite enough treble for my liking.


----------



## kokakolia

vidal said:


> People are right to hype both of those earphones. If you can handle treble then they are both a great choice.
> 
> To buy the right headphone you first have to understand what you're sound signature preference is. You now know that you can't do strong treble so pick darker sounding headphones, I would suggest you try: -
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I agree. I am actually rocking the KZ ED7s  and they sound just fine...especially for $7.


----------



## loomisjohnson

mus1c said:


> all rights i'll just move on now,im stop talking about kz atr from now on. I will buy another kz which I've been wanted for so long the kz zst with silver cable.


 

 son, this will be our only interaction ever, so learn something.you're either an idiot or you choose to act like one, which is worse. either way, you're mucking up a thread which the grownups enjoy, which is doubtful that even you find amusing.


----------



## Mus1c

Can everybody stop talking about kz atr please and I get it its a good iem for sure, if you in budget.


----------



## chickenmoon

mus1c said:


> Can everybody stop talking about kz atr please and I get it its a good iem for sure, if you in budget.




You're the only one talking about it.


----------



## Mus1c

chickenmoon said:


> You're the only one talking about it.


hey i said i stop talking about it in other post didn't you read it?


----------



## crabdog

kokakolia said:


> Yeah, maybe. But a lot of earphones are pretty amazing for the price. Now it's a question of "how cheap do you want to be?". And the ATR is very cheap indeed. But is $50 that expensive for a set of earphones? You get to step up in tier by spending a little more cash.
> 
> Here's a few examples:
> 
> ...


 
 Well if you look at my profile you can see I've got more than a few IEMs. The fact that I still sometimes pull out the ATR just goes to show how good they are for under $10.


----------



## chickenmoon

mus1c said:


> hey i said i stop talking about it in other post didn't you read it?




Are you the thread policeman now? :rolleyes:


----------



## Mus1c

chickenmoon said:


> Are you the thread policeman now? :rolleyes:


what if i was now?


----------



## chickenmoon

mus1c said:


> what if i was now?




Good Lord, help us...


----------



## Mus1c

chickenmoon said:


> Good Lord, help us...


hahaha


----------



## Shadowsora

I am trying to find a smooth analytical iem to step up from ATR, I have a lot of treble cannons which are really well perceived by most people but I am not really into this signature, anyone has a recommendation?
  
 I don't plan to buy it immediately so my budget can go up to 90$(Euros actually).


----------



## CoiL

shadowsora said:


> I am trying to find a smooth analytical iem to step up from ATR, I have a lot of treble cannons which are really well perceived by most people but I am not really into this signature, anyone has a recommendation?
> 
> I don't plan to buy it immediately so my budget can go up to 90$(Euros actually).


 
 I actually have something that has little better details/clarity/separation than ATR but also has better soundstage size and imaging than 5th gen ATE... but... this IEM is still under developement and can`t tell about it, yet


----------



## crabdog

shadowsora said:


> I am trying to find a smooth analytical iem to step up from ATR, I have a lot of treble cannons which are really well perceived by most people but I am not really into this signature, anyone has a recommendation?
> 
> I don't plan to buy it immediately so my budget can go up to 90$(Euros actually).


 
 That sounds how people have been describing the Tennmak Cello.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/757838/tennmak/765#post_13235642


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> I actually have something that has little better details/clarity/separation than ATR but also has better soundstage size and imaging than 5th gen ATE... but... this IEM is still under developement and can`t tell about it, yet




"under development",what do you mean by that coil?.....iis it somethin youve been given a sample to fine-tune some mfr's model or its just you are into your usual diy style.


----------



## Shadowsora

coil said:


> I actually have something that has little better details/clarity/separation than ATR but also has better soundstage size and imaging than 5th gen ATE... but... this IEM is still under developement and can`t tell about it, yet


 
 Waiting with crossed fingers!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

shadowsora said:


> I am trying to find a smooth analytical iem to step up from ATR, I have a lot of treble cannons which are really well perceived by most people but I am not really into this signature, anyone has a recommendation?
> 
> I don't plan to buy it immediately so my budget can go up to 90$(Euros actually).


 
 KZ ZS3 is a pretty good step up from the ATR.  A little bit on the bassy side, with slightly recessed mids and trebles.  Clarity overall is a lot better than the ATR to my ears.


----------



## VShaft

kokakolia said:


> But is $50 that expensive for a set of earphones? You get to step up in tier by spending a little more cash.


 
  
 I'm also a beginner in this hobby, and here's my problem with the so called "stepping up in tier":
  

 I read reviews for a $5 IEM and there's criticisms like:

 - all good, but treble is grainy, or
 - all good, but sub-bass/mid-bass/whatever-bass could be more present, or
 - all good, but the mids are so and so, or
 - all good, but it's difficult getting a good seal, or
 - etc. etc. etc.

 And then I see reviews for a $50 IEM, and you read all of that, again, word for word. Even for $500 IEMs.
  
 And than you come to ask yourself, wait a minute, if a $5 IEM and a $50 IEM and $500 IEM have the same faults and qualities, isn't it wiser to stick to the cheaper models? Because for $5 I can forgive grainy treble, or lacking sub-bass, or whatever it is... but for a $500 IEM, I don't want it to be lacking in this, or have too much of that - I want it to be just right. In a word, perfect.
  
 Now, I know nothing's perfect, and that reviews are subjective and the earphones are judged according to the other models in their price range (that is, the "lack of xyz" in $5 IEM is not the same as "lack of xyz" in a $500 IEM). But it's certainly disconcerting to an audio enthusiast on a budget to read the same kinds of criticisms for a KZ ATR, and a Campfire Audio model. The question imposes itself: is it worth spending ten times (or a hundred) more for an IEM that basically has the same flaws as your current "cheapo"?
  
 This being the reality, it's much easier to put your trust in a budget IEM than a premium one. Even more so, I'm more trusting of a cheaper Chinese model, than a pricier brand name model. It seems to me the Chinese are surpassing the brand names i the low and mid-end audio, at a fraction of a cost. Am I wrong?


----------



## crabdog

vshaft said:


> I'm also a beginner in this hobby, and here's my problem with the so called "stepping up in tier":
> 
> 
> I read reviews for a $5 IEM and there's criticisms like:
> ...


 
 It's all relative. $500 for some people is just lunch money. But once you go up a level in terms of audio it's hard to go back down again. A $500 IEM is not 100 times better than a $5 one. After the $150-200 mark diminishing returns kick in pretty hard but there's definitely improvements to be heard. I'm listening to the LZ A4 right now and it's just amazing. There's no way I'm going to reach for the KZ ZST at home but when I'm at work and want something almost 'disposable' in terms of cost to shove in my pocket or throw on the desk the ZST does an admirable job for its low asking price.


----------



## ayao

vshaft said:


> I'm also a beginner in this hobby, and here's my problem with the so called "stepping up in tier":
> 
> I read reviews for a $5 IEM and there's criticisms like:
> 
> ...


 
  
_This is just limited to what I have and what I've heard_, but none of the "cheapo" earphones I've heard are close enough to the upper tier earphones (I've heard) to say that they have the _same faults and qualities_. I can compare the $5 ATR with the $500 C6IEM no problem, but there are going to be more differences than similarities, despite both having a "dark, warm but balanced" signature. The following opinion might be controversial, but every KZ earphone I've heard apart from the ZST and ZS1 series sounds artificial somewhere in the mids, and it's not all in the same place (some around 3-4khz, some around 5-7khz).
  
 I think isolated reviews that share the same descriptions (e.g. sub-bass can be more present on the ZST and ER4), would have different descriptions when in direct comparison with each other (ER4 sounds anemic and the ZST sounds boomy)
  
 Also, be careful of audio terms since they are subjective in itself. "Clear, engaging vocals" for someone might mean "too shouty" for someone else.
  
 The topic of money is also pretty tricky. Someone might have a budget of $30, while $195 might be "good value" for someone else. Someone might think the <$20 XE800's value-for-money is better than the $80+ GR07, while someone else might think the "refined tuning" of the GR07 is worth the money over the XE800. As much as they are "ridiculously overpriced", I've honestly never heard anything as fatigue-free as the Adel U12, or any fully-sealing IEM with such vast soundstage as the JH Audio Layla.
  
 Blindly starting out with KZ is nice because they offer so many different choices at such a low price. Buying one or two pairs most likely won't put you in debt. It's a good starting point to see what kind of signature you prefer, though it's possible you might change preferences in the future. I personally went from "V-shaped" to "neutral" to "warm/balanced".
  
 If you want to spend "lots of money" on an earphone and want it to be "perfect", the only thing I can recommend would be to visit an earphone store that allows you to demo everything. I only had this opportunity during a short vacation in Tokyo, but it was definitely worth it! I found that the K3003, FX850 and Unique Melody earphones weren't to my tastes, I actually liked the cheap TTPOD T1E, and I wish to own the DN2000, Heaven VIII and TG!334 in the future.
  
 All in all, what really matters is whether or not you enjoy music with the earphones. If an earphone makes you angry and triple-post in a thread (not sure if it was sarcastic though), it might be a good idea to try a different earphone or just get used to it. I was outside the whole day today, and brought the ZST and Layla with me. I used both earphones equally, and can tell you that the ZST didn't make me mad or anything; I was still happy listening to the ZST.


----------



## hendrixj

Does anyone know of a silver cable that fits the ATR's? I have them for my ZST and ZS3 and much prefer how they fit in my pocket. I'm not a fan of the stock cables but can't find one for the ATRs to save my life. Any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## Shawn71

hendrixj said:


> Does anyone know of a silver cable that fits the ATR's? I have them for my ZST and ZS3 and much prefer how they fit in my pocket. I'm not a fan of the stock cables but can't find one for the ATRs to save my life. Any help would be much appreciated.




ATR have fixed cable unlike zst/3 which has removable cable to buy after-market cables of your choice.........you need to have little diy skills to diy with atr as it involves opening the shells desolder the stock cables and install your preferred cable and glue the shells back.


----------



## hendrixj

Well that's not worth it. Thanks though. Still good earbuds. Can't complain.


----------



## To.M

The cable for ATR/ATE looks like a removable one, which may be deceiving. I remember once I disassembled one broken pair of ATE to see how it is connected and to be completely sure it is non-removable, silly me!


----------



## CoiL

shawn71 said:


> coil said:
> 
> 
> > I actually have something that has little better details/clarity/separation than ATR but also has better soundstage size and imaging than 5th gen ATE... but... this IEM is still under developement and can`t tell about it, yet
> ...


 
 Actually, neither and both ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 New brand, hand-made in EU, with special wood design (that`s why I`m involved)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Information about drivers is classified and I`m not allowed to say a thing about it. 
  
 Sorry for OT.


----------



## ricemanhk

coil said:


> Actually, neither and both ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is it KZ level pricing though? that's the biggest hurdle to clear haha


----------



## To.M

CoiL- Craftsmanship of incredible Level !!!


----------



## Shawn71

coil said:


> Actually, neither and both ?   New brand, hand-made in EU, with special wood design (that`s why I`m involved)  Information about drivers is classified and I`m not allowed to say a thing about it.
> 
> Sorry for OT.




Wishing you a Good luck Dr.CoiL.......:vodkachug:


----------



## VShaft

*@ crabdog @ ayao (regarding the upper tier IEM and pricing)*
  
 What you both said stands.
  
 Even though I may find them ridiculously overpriced indeed (given my available budget and my personal audio needs), I'm sure that the high-end and top of the line IEMs do offer superior sound (due to the amount of R&D that went into them) compared their much cheaper counterparts. However, it seems to me the lines blur somewhat in regards to low and mid-tier earphones (and headphones).
  
 Now, the following statement is just based on the great amount of reviews I've been reading here... so I may be wrong, since my own budget doesn't allow me to test this hypothesis for myself:
  
*Leaving the really top-of-the-line models aside, you're usually better of buying a $20 Chi-fi IEM than a 4x$$$ brand name IEM.*
  
 True or not?
  
 An example: you have the URBANFUN for the price of $17-20. The little thing's got almost unanimously positive 4.5/5 to 5/5 star reviews wherever you look. And then you have, on the other hand, a Shure budget model SE112-GR priced at $49, or the little-less-budget SE215-K priced at $129, or SE315-CL priced at $199 (and certainly not considered budget anymore by my standards). What these Shure models have in common is the average 3.5 out of 5 stars reviews. Generally speaking, yeah, when I say "I replaced my KZ with a Shure.", it certainly sounds like a step up. But, what portion of that Shure price is actually sound quality, and how much is brand name? Or, in other words, is buying a $50 or $100 Shure really a step up in sound quality from a KZ ZST or a Tennmak Pro or an Urbanfun, or just a step up in pricing?
  
 If KZ has taught me something, is that the the Chinese can really offer great sound at an amazingly low price. And if they exceed in squeezing the uttermost bang-for-your-buck at lower prices, wouldn't they also be able to squeeze the most out of a $50, $100 or $200 model? Or, to put it more bluntly, would a Chinese IEM costing $50 actually warrant a price of $150 or $250 or $350 if it had a brand name like Shure or Sennheiser slapped onto it?
  
 If you're on a budget (let's say <$100), is it wiser to look for Chi-fi IEMs, or brand names?
  


> If an earphone makes you angry and triple-post in a thread (not sure if it was sarcastic though), it might be a good idea to try a different earphone or just get used to it.


 
  
 Ayao, I don't know if this was directed at me? Because I've never triple-posted here or been angry because of an earphone.


----------



## zabunny94

vshaft said:


> If you're on a budget (let's say <$100), is it wiser to look for Chi-fi IEMs, or brand names?


 
  
 brand names iem usually oem-ed their product for the budget range(below $20) might as well getting the chinese version of it since its probably the same quality as $5 chinese iem, and you can just get 4 of them and forget the warranty because you won't need it
  
 but for $50 and above, i guess its better to look for something that has official distributor in your country and offer you a warranty. honestly i can't see the appeal of getting an expensive Chinese iem as opposed to getting the brand name one


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, main positive thing about brand names(products) is their QC, support and warranty, even if they origin from asian manufacturers. 
  
 But guys&girls... maybe back on topic? KZ? ZSR? Any new pics or info?


----------



## Saoshyant

Pretty sure this thread will be quite full of chatty head-fiers if any actual news of the ZSR appears.


----------



## kokakolia

@ Vshaft

- Kz IEMs are quite barebones. Yeah, they come with a case, although a flimsy ugly bulky one. But no clip. You could spend an extra $20 and get all the accessories you need. So it's actually a positive?
- My $50 Marshall Mode has a built in clip, is well made, has a good fit. But no case. I think that the accumulation of small things like that makes me want to spend more. Plus, they look nice. They don't have that DIY aesthetic that the KZs have. 
- Sennheiser, Shure, Bose, Monster, Beats etc...are always overpriced. But sometimes you find an odd model that over performs (again, Marshall Mode). 
- Yeah, the KZ ED7s are the sweet spot for me. They're around $7. I could live with them. Spending another $10 on a case would be worth it. That said, the lack of clip is annoying. That's why my Marshall Modes are my go-to earbuds. They have a clip! So that I don't hear my wires bouncing around when walking. IMO that feature alone is worth $43. Well, they have better bass and treble too. They feel more premium.


----------



## CoiL

kokakolia said:


> They don't have that DIY aesthetic that the KZs have.


 
 Excuse me but about that point I personally disagree. 
 Latest KZs like ZST, ZS2 have quite "authentic" look and great quality imho. Even ED9 and few more older models have great "authentic" look and great quality.
 No "DIY aesthetic" to me.
  
 But yeah, there are "copy-cat" designs like ATX series, ANV, ZS3 that I`m not proud about.


----------



## crabdog

kokakolia said:


> @ Vshaft
> 
> - Kz IEMs are quite barebones. Yeah, they come with a case, although a flimsy ugly bulky one. But no clip. You could spend an extra $20 and get all the accessories you need. So it's actually a positive?
> - My $50 Marshall Mode has a built in clip, is well made, has a good fit. But no case. I think that the accumulation of small things like that makes me want to spend more. Plus, they look nice. They don't have that DIY aesthetic that the KZs have.
> ...


 
 For $28 you can get the Brainwavz Jive which has immaculate build quality and finish, comes with an excellent case, cable clip, Velcro cable tie, 3 button inline control with mic and let's not forget the 24 month warranty....
  
 But we've derailed the thread enough with this already. KZ remains an excellent choice for people who don't have a lot of money to spend or want to experiment with different sound signatures without breaking the bank. And for what you pay you're getting very decent physical and sonic quality (aside from occasional QC issues).


----------



## kokakolia

@ Crabdog: I couldn't have said it better myself. It's not just the sound, but all the little things that make the experience far more enjoyable.


----------



## VShaft

zabunny94 said:


> honestly i can't see the appeal of getting an expensive Chinese iem as opposed to getting the brand name one


 
  
 The appeal is that for a $100 Chi-fi I could actually be getting a $300 quality IEM (if it were branded). Personally, I'd take the $90 ZSR over any sub-$300 Shure or Marshall or Sennheiser. And warranties and buying locally is all well and good, but the benefits of it apply only if you live in an actually civilized part of the world. Unfortunately, my dear homeland of Croatia is far from it. Customer protection is pretty much a fantasy where I live.
  


Spoiler: Here's a true (and off-topic) story:



A few years ago I bought a Philips DAP from a local distributor, warranty and all. And it wasn't cheap either, around $60-70 at the time. As it turned out, the DAP had a firmware bug - which was minor for other people apparently, but rendered the DAP useless for me.

 First, it took me 15 days of haggling with Philips customer support. At first, of course, they misunderstood my problem completely. Then they presumed I was using the unit wrong. Then they demanded I send videos and proofs of the bug. Then finally, after days of silence I got a reply basically saying: "Yes, it's a bug in the firmware. Deal with it."

 Oh, and the extras in the retail package? A USB charging cable. They didn't even include the complimentary earphones, as cheap as they'd probably be. Even a $17 Ruizu gave me one.

 When I went to return the unit to the local store, they wouldn't accept it. I couldn't even exchange it for another DAP (I was even willing to pay the price difference). The only thing they could do, the clerk said, was send the unit to their official repair shop and have the tech guys look at it for any defects. And since there weren't actually any (software bugs didn't count), I was stuck with a brick worth $70. So the warranty was worth diddly-squat.

 Even before that, when I was a teen in 8th grade, I took a substantial portion of my savings and bought myself a Sennheiser earbud. Don't remember the model, but it was around $30. The thing, with the usual brand names budget cables not being worth a penny, crapped out on me rather soon - the left earbud went dead, despite me being extra careful with them. Guess what happened when I went to the local store to complain? Yeah, you've guessed it.

 Extras with that Sennheiser? Honestly, I don't even remember if I got extra foam pads, as I remember wearing them padless for a time - which begs me to presume there weren't any in the retail box.

 A few months after that, I went for another Sennheiser, this time over-ear and even costlier, since I thought I didn't go high enough price-wise the first time, and had it coming with the cheap cables. As it turned out, the cables on this one were equally as bad, and again a driver failed, only the right one this time. Did I get my money back? Or a replacement unit? No, I didn't.

 And extras? Perhaps a carrying pouch, something? Nope. Chuck Testa.

 So, warranties from my local distributors are pretty much worthless to me. In fact, I avoid dealing with local distributors as much as I can. They're more expensive and they have a far poorer selection of everything. In fact, they can all go bankrupt if you ask me, the way they treat customers.

 And, as imagined, I've acquired quite a dislike for the brand names in the process, after getting the middle finger for putting my trust in them (there were more earphone failures after that 2 Senns). What's more, the cheapest KZ I've got, the ATE-S, beat both Senns in sound quality (and I'm pretty well sure time will prove it will beat them in build quality also).

 On the other hand, the Chinese sellers on E-bay and Aliexpress treat me as an actual valued customer (albeit in broken English). That's also why, for my step up in IEMs, I didn't even try local stores, or brand names. I went straight online and - after extensive reading - got myself a PMV A-01 mk. II which I presume I'll be a very happy owner of, probably far happier if I'd had spent that money on another brand name.

 EDIT: And look at the amount of "luxury" the Chi-fi IEMs had got us expecting: detachable cables at a price as low a $10-15. If a Chinese IEM costs $20+ we expect detachable cables almost as a right, not an extra. But do people expect such cables with a $30, $40, $50... even a $100 brand IEM? No, they don't. They don't even regard it a shortcoming!


----------



## smy1

vshaft said:


> The appeal is that for a $100 Chi-fi I could actually be getting a $300 quality IEM (if it were branded). Personally, I'd take the $90 ZSR over any sub-$300 Shure or Marshall or Sennheiser. And warranties and buying locally is all well and good, but the benefits of it apply only if you live in an actually civilized part of the world. Unfortunately, my dear homeland of Croatia is far from it. Customer protection is pretty much a fantasy where I live.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Penonaudio treated me very well when I had issues.


----------



## rad7

Can anyone compare ED7 with ED10? I am planning to buy one of them soon.
  
 I have the colorful ZSTs, but I am now looking for an even cheaper KZ product (<$10) that has a traditional design, that I can just throw in my college bag daily without worrying too much about damaging them. I love the ZSTs, but their sound signature sometimes seems too bright and fatiguing for extended periods of listening. I know that both ED7 & ED10 don't have the same soundstage or clarity as ZST, but that is okay. I would still like them to have good bass but not as bright as the ZSTs.


----------



## kokakolia

rad7 said:


> Can anyone compare ED7 with ED10? I am planning to buy one of them soon.
> 
> I have the colorful ZSTs, but I am now looking for an even cheaper KZ product (<$10) that has a traditional design, that I can just throw in my college bag daily without worrying too much about damaging them. I love the ZSTs, but their sound signature sometimes seems too bright and fatiguing for extended periods of listening. I know that both ED7 & ED10 don't have the same soundstage or clarity as ZST, but that is okay. I would still like them to have good bass but not as bright as the ZSTs.




I have the ED7s but not the ED10s. I have to say that the bass is alright on the ED7. It's not boomy or punchy or anything. Some will say it's not super defined. At least I don't feel like my head will explode listening to house music. 

I am trying my best to say that bass is not the selling feature of the ED7s.I remember the ED9s having way more bass.


----------



## stuck limo

I had to use the Small fit on the Comply tips I bought.
  
 So, if I buy the ZST Colorful, is there only ONE version of those? Or is it a crapshoot? Are there multiple versions of the ZST Colorful? I would have bought them off Amazon with Prime but I waited and now the only ones left on Amazon ship from China.


----------



## rad7

stuck limo said:


> I had to use the Small fit on the Comply tips I bought.
> 
> So, if I buy the ZST Colorful, is there only ONE version of those? Or is it a crapshoot? Are there multiple versions of the ZST Colorful? I would have bought them off Amazon with Prime but I waited and now the only ones left on Amazon ship from China.


 
 AFAIK, there is only 1 colorful version of the ZST. I got mine from Amazon for $20 as I did not want to wait for them to ship from China, but you are right, they are unavailable now. I heard that Gearbest has the official KZ store and you can get them here for $17. Aliexpress and Penon audio are other well known stores.


----------



## VinceHill24

Just talked a bit with KZ by their qq and seems no news about the ZSR yet so be patience we must for now. Apparently they just started work so probably too many things to sort out before things going smooth. Probably working needs some Burn-in as well LOL


----------



## rad7

kokakolia said:


> I have the ED7s but not the ED10s. I have to say that the bass is alright on the ED7. It's not boomy or punchy or anything. Some will say it's not super defined. At least I don't feel like my head will explode listening to house music.
> 
> I am trying my best to say that bass is not the selling feature of the ED7s.I remember the ED9s having way more bass.


 
 Thank you for your reply.
  
 Do you know if there are any other KZ iems with a traditional design, that have dark/recessed treble & recessed mids, but good punchy bass? I am looking for something that is less bright.


----------



## Keller1

vshaft said:


> The appeal is that for a $100 Chi-fi I could actually be getting a $300 quality IEM (if it were branded). Personally, I'd take the $90 ZSR over any sub-$300 Shure or Marshall or Sennheiser. And warranties and buying locally is all well and good, but the benefits of it apply only if you live in an actually civilized part of the world. Unfortunately, my dear homeland of Croatia is far from it. Customer protection is pretty much a fantasy where I live.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can wholeheartedly agree with your rant. I posted my own a few pages back. This is on spot.

 I dont really care about brandname stuff anymore, even though i do own quite a bit of it.
 My $250 Sony MDR-1RBT crapped out because of a design flaw. So Did my K550.
 My KZ RX hasnt crapped out yet, it's about the same age, even though it's dented and scratched to all hell.

 I've drank the brandname koolaid far too many times.
 I'm just gonna buy stuff from companies that dont have the resources to design failure points to make me buy one again.


----------



## kokakolia

rad7 said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> Do you know if there are any other KZ iems with a traditional design, that have dark/recessed treble & recessed mids, but good punchy bass? I am looking for something that is less bright.


 
 So I listened to the ED7s some more today. I am having an absolute blast with Neil Young. 
  
 Yeah, the bass good. It's definitely punchy. It's just not as loud as you'd expect. It's like you have to get used to them, because most other earbuds/earphones have boosted treble and bass. The ED7s are just sort of balanced. I take it back. Just buy them' They're around $7 and sound awesome, especially with folksy guitar music.


----------



## rad7

kokakolia said:


> So I listened to the ED7s some more today. I am having an absolute blast with Neil Young.
> 
> Yeah, the bass good. It's definitely punchy. It's just not as loud as you'd expect. It's like you have to get used to them, because most other earbuds/earphones have boosted treble and bass. The ED7s are just sort of balanced. I take it back. Just buy them' They're around $7 and sound awesome, especially with folksy guitar music.


 
 Thank you. There are 2 versions of ED7 - standard and mini. Apart from the size, are there any differences, especially in the sound signature, between the two?


----------



## Carrow

From what I understand, the appeal is that these are cheap as crap but punch way above their weight, right?  Might pick up a pair.


----------



## Keller1

carrow said:


> From what I understand, the appeal is that these are cheap as crap but punch way above their weight, right?  Might pick up a pair.


 

 That's the gist of it.


----------



## loomisjohnson

rad7 said:


> Can anyone compare ED7 with ED10? I am planning to buy one of them soon.
> 
> I have the colorful ZSTs, but I am now looking for an even cheaper KZ product (<$10) that has a traditional design, that I can just throw in my college bag daily without worrying too much about damaging them. I love the ZSTs, but their sound signature sometimes seems too bright and fatiguing for extended periods of listening. I know that both ED7 & ED10 don't have the same soundstage or clarity as ZST, but that is okay. I would still like them to have good bass but not as bright as the ZSTs.


 

 the ed10 has more tighter, bass than the ed7 and would be a good choice--it does have a smaller stage than the zst but good overall clarity. the ed3c might also fit the bill--it has a more traditional v-shape with recessed mids


----------



## Jojaonthebeat

what's the difference between ZS1, ZS2 and ZS3? Is the ZS3 an updgrade or latest version of the other two? What can you prefer if I wanted big soundstage with bass like you're in a movie theater that is packed with clarity, detail, separation/imaging, not too sharp treble, good for listening to drum covers? My new choices are KZ ZST, ZS1 and ED9. I read most people say the soundstage in the ZS1 is like being in a movie theater which is the widest they ever heard in this price point, and I like how you can get two different sound signatures on the ED9 which is also airy for soundstage. Looking forward to the detail, imaging/separation and clarity on the ZST. Is there a KZ product that offers the full package in what I'm looking for?


----------



## kokakolia

rad7 said:


> Thank you. There are 2 versions of ED7 - standard and mini. Apart from the size, are there any differences, especially in the sound signature, between the two?




I only have the big ED7s so I can't comment on the small ones. 



carrow said:


> From what I understand, the appeal is that these are cheap as crap but punch way above their weight, right?  Might pick up a pair.




Any generic Chinese earbud will absolutely destroy a similarly priced earbud from the likes of Sony, Philips, Skullcandy, Panasonic etc...

The real problem is that there are too many choices, people also hype the max out of brighter earphones. So finding the perfectly tuned earbud for you can be tricky, unless you like really sharp treble. 

I only bought 3 pairs of China earphones:

- Aukey C2: dead on arrival, left piece not working. Boosted treble + bass, recessed mids. Narrow sound. $10. 
- KZ ED9: super sharp treble (painful), boomy bass, super wide sound. Disappointing mids, sounds "thin". $12
- KZ ED7: Sweet spot. Warm & smooth. Just the right amount of treble & mids. Could use a little more bass, but bass is clean and punchy. Sounds wide like the ED9s. Dirt cheap $7.


----------



## Saoshyant

kokakolia said:


> Any generic Chinese earbud will absolutely destroy a similarly priced earbud from the likes of Sony, Philips, Skullcandy, Panasonic etc...




Oddly, the Sony E808+ which is dirt cheap even by KZ standards, and an earbud & not IEM, is really quite well received and for some people is preferred over a very respected and similarly inexpensive VE Monk+.


----------



## zabunny94

kokakolia said:


> Any generic Chinese earbud will absolutely destroy a similarly priced earbud from the likes of Sony, Philips, Skullcandy, Panasonic etc...


 
  
 not necessarily. japanese made ones from Audio technica, radius or Zero audio can stand their grounds. in fact, build quality aside i think i prefer ath clr100 and radius nef11 than any of chinese iem i've tried
  
 also cellphones manufacturer sells decent quality iem for low price nowaday, look at the quadbeat 3 for example, its only $10 nowaday and the build quality and Quality Control is definitely better than KZ.
  
 i think people giving chinese earphones too much credits


----------



## kokakolia

zabunny94 said:


> not necessarily. japanese made ones from Audio technica, radius or Zero audio can stand their grounds. in fact, build quality aside i think i prefer ath clr100 and radius nef11 than any of chinese iem i've tried
> 
> also cellphones manufacturer sells decent quality iem for low price nowaday, look at the quadbeat 3 for example, its only $10 nowaday and the build quality and Quality Control is definitely better than KZ.
> 
> i think people giving chinese earphones too much credits


 
 Yeah, that's possible. I am basing this on cheap SONY IEMS I bought at the airport recently. That's my frame of reference. They were labeled as "crystal clear sound". They had so much treble and no soundstage. The wire was also terrible. And then you look online and see 500 4~5 star reviews on amazon. Most reviews were really basic and said nothing more than "cheap, sounds good & fits well". It's the same story with the Philips SHE3590 which even get hyped up on head-fi. They sound just like the SONYs. Go figure. People don't know what they're missing! 
  
 I am sure that there are some obscure IEMs from more reputable brands out there. But it's hard to find them when the market is so saturated. 
  
 Meanwhile, I am using the KZ ED7s and thinking "if these would be any cheaper, they'd be free". It's astonishing to get good sound out of $7 IEMS. That said, the ED9s share more in common with the Philips and SONYs, namely shrill artificial treble.


----------



## Lotmom

Any new news on the ZSRs?


----------



## Thomas De Brito

lotmom said:


> Any new news on the ZSRs?


if someone has news he or she will inform the forum


----------



## Mariusik

Hello, which of the KZ earphones has the best isolation? Thx


----------



## Carrow

mariusik said:


> Hello, which of the KZ earphones has the best isolation? Thx


 
 Came back in here to ask this, got ninja'd. Seriously considering copping a pair of ZSTs...


----------



## Viber

.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

viber said:


> Gah, Gearbest scammed me.
> They claim the package got lost in the mail and they didn't even care when i said it will probably be forwarded back to them, so no ATR for me.




Have you checked tracking? How long has it been since it shipped out? Some of my Gearbest orders have taken 8-10 weeks to arrive but they've all gotten to me eventually.


----------



## alvinlim2010

zabunny94 said:


> not necessarily. japanese made ones from Audio technica, radius or Zero audio can stand their grounds. in fact, build quality aside i think i prefer ath clr100 and radius nef11 than any of chinese iem i've tried
> 
> also cellphones manufacturer sells decent quality iem for low price nowaday, look at the quadbeat 3 for example, its only $10 nowaday and the build quality and Quality Control is definitely better than KZ.
> 
> i think people giving chinese earphones too much credits



 


I have owned quite a few pairs of KZ myself (e.g. ATR, ZN1, ED10 ...), and while the build quality is nothing to shout home about, it is the price-to-performance ratio that the Chinese IEMs are doing well in. Back in the days when Beats are not even released, you usually have two main tiers of audio gear - audiophile grade from the major brands e.g. UE, Shure, AKG or cheaper ones from the commercial brands e.g. Phillips, Pioneer. The low-mid range of earphones is severely lacking. 

With all the globalization and opening up of markets, the influx of OEM makers makes this low-mid range segment more competitive, and this leads to us consumers benefitting from it as well - from affordable KZ IEMs all the way to CIEMs. 

Just my two cents


----------



## Shawn71

viber said:


> Gah, Gearbest scammed me.
> They claim the package got lost in the mail and they didn't even care when i said it will probably be forwarded back to them, so no ATR for me.




may be @George-gearbest cld help you solve the issue..........


----------



## George-gearbest

viber said:


> Gah, Gearbest scammed me.
> They claim the package got lost in the mail and they didn't even care when i said it will probably be forwarded back to them, so no ATR for me.


 
 Apologize, can you PM me your order number? i can check it and make refund.


----------



## Mus1c

I've been wondering Can all kz iem beat the airpods and all cheaps iem on amazon,if its beats all the league im in a good community.


----------



## Viber

Thanks Head-Fiers, maybe George will work things out.


----------



## Shawn71

george-gearbest said:


> Apologize, can you PM me your order number? i can check it and make refund.




Thanks George for the quick response.........




hmm, may be you shd thank George first.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> the ed10 has more tighter, bass than the ed7 and would be a good choice--it does have a smaller stage than the zst but good overall clarity. the ed3c might also fit the bill--it has a more traditional v-shape with recessed mids


 

 Hey @loomisjohnson, just wondering what your take is on the Brass Back ED11's? I found mine to be even if not just a little more pronounced in the mid region to the 10's? I keep seeing so many comparing to the ED10 and was wondering why I'm seeing nothing about the ED11, could it be they are not offered anymore?


----------



## loomisjohnson

podster said:


> Hey @loomisjohnson
> , just wondering what your take is on the Brass Back ED11's? I found mine to be even if not just a little more pronounced in the mid region to the 10's? I keep seeing so many comparing to the ED10 and was wondering why I'm seeing nothing about the ED11, could it be they are not offered anymore?


Iread that the 11 is a refinement of the 10s signature but haven't heard it myself.i still prefer the ed9, but it's hard to find fault with the 10


----------



## 1clearhead

podster said:


> Hey @loomisjohnson, just wondering what your take is on the Brass Back ED11's? I found mine to be even if not just a little more pronounced in the mid region to the 10's? I keep seeing so many comparing to the ED10 and was wondering why I'm seeing nothing about the ED11, could it be they are not offered anymore?


 
    Quote:


loomisjohnson said:


> Iread that the 11 is a refinement of the 10s signature but haven't heard it myself.i still prefer the ed9, but it's hard to find fault with the 10


 
  
 Yup! It is definitely true! I have both the ED10 and the ED11 for several years now, and I can truly say that it is a step-up in refinement on both midrange and treble. And, to make a better observation of it, at that time I've bought "two" ED10's plus "two" ED11's to prove my point.


----------



## 1clearhead

.....plus, you can still get the ED11's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED11-In-ear-Earphone-Stereo-Music-Headset-Audifonos-Earbuds-Fone-De-Ouvido-Earpiece-Bass-Auriculares/32774591758.html?spm=2114.30010308.3.1.fWgOR2&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10066_10065_10068_10000074_10000032_119_10000025_10000029_430_10000028_10060_10000067_9999_10062_10056_10055_10000062_10054_10059_10099_10000022_10103_10102_10096_10000018_10000019_10000056_10000059_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051_10000053_10000007_10000050_10084_10083_10000047_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10115_10000041_10000044_10078_10079_10000038_429_10073_10000035_10121-9999,searchweb201603_2,afswitch_3_afChannel,single_sort_2_default&btsid=222a7949-f3d7-4646-9e9d-8c511270f691


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm going to guess that link doesn't really need anything past the .html


----------



## To.M

Who knows, maybe there is some hiden message in that string of digits?


----------



## Podster

saoshyant said:


> I'm going to guess that link doesn't really need anything past the .html


 

 That is funny Saoshyant, what I have found if the latter digits are removed the page generally goes to AliEx or Sellers home pages and not right to the item!
  
 Good find 1Clear although I see they are now at a premium, seems my 10's & 11's were in the $6 to $10 range when I bought mine a few years back and like you I have 2 of each
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (One each now as my two teenage sons have absconded with one each themselves)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah Loomis, 1Clear is correct and I'm not really sure the treble is different from one to the other because I kind of feel the refined mid-range just let's the highs come through that much better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course at my age my ears may be playing tricks on me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd say grab a pair Looomis but for that price you could have bought two or three pair
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd still say they are worth $20 but at that price they have some serious comp out here now. Like you ED( will always have a special place in my Chi-Fi iem's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's Old School original's: Amped ZN1, Chrome ED9's, HDS1's, ED10's, ZS1 Bass Canons and original translucent ATE's


----------



## rad7

I guess my question is off-topic, so please bear with me.
  
 I recently bought 3 KZ products - ZST (colorful version), ED7 & ED10. They are all good, but I feel they are not as good as some members are describing them in this thread. They are underwhelming when compared to my very old Xears XE200PRO Walnut Edition iems. I am suspecting it may have got to do something with my audio sources - a ThinkPad T440 laptop and an old $30 Philips mp3 player. I also have the HD598, which I almost never use because they don't sound good enough with my audio sources (I have to dial the volume way up when I connect the HD598s to my Philips mp3 player). 
  
 I've always wanted to buy the Fiio X3 2nd gen, but I cannot afford it now. I am looking at Fiio Q1 DAC+AMP and wondering if it will make any difference if I can connect it to my laptop and mp3 player and use the above headphones & iems. I know that the KZ products don't need amping, but may be my HD598 needs a little amping due to the quality of my audio sources.
  
 Does anyone think it is a good idea to do that? Or are there any other better alternatives to Q1 at this price range?


----------



## Podster

rad7 said:


> I guess my question is off-topic, so please bear with me.
> 
> I recently bought 3 KZ products - ZST (colorful version), ED7 & ED10. They are all good, but I feel they are not as good as some members are describing them in this thread. They are underwhelming when compared to my very old Xears XE200PRO Walnut Edition iems. I am suspecting it may have got to do something with my audio sources - a ThinkPad T440 laptop and an old $30 Philips mp3 player. I also have the HD598, which I almost never use because they don't sound good enough with my audio sources (I have to dial the volume way up when I connect the HD598s to my Philips mp3 player).
> 
> ...


 

 You may be right on source, I have never liked SQ from my iPad or any of a multitude of Laptops. I personally would buy a Shanling M1 over the X3ii as I have both and IMO the M1 SQ is just as good as the X3ii and maybe even better in some freq. ranges! YMMV, if you work with some AliEx sellers you can get the M1 for a Ben Franklin
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really digging my Carbon ZST's on my M1


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

podster said:


> YMMV, if you work with some AliEx sellers you can get the M1 for a Ben Franklin


 
 "work with"? What's the secret? Should I ship them all the earbuds I don't need anymore?


----------



## Podster

laughmoredaily said:


> "work with"? What's the secret? Should I ship them all the earbuds I don't need anymore?


 

 I just email seller and ask if they will discount my/your order, the old "Never hurts to ask" scenario. Has worked on multiple occasions for me


----------



## kramercosmo

I want to thank everyone for answering my qusestions i had a few pages back.
  
 Sadly my Ates broke(my fault) a few days ago, i bought Atr to see how they are compared to Ate.
  
 When i get them and if i don't like them i will look into:
  
 Tennmak Pro and Urbanfun, has anyone tried them against Ate?. I Listen mostly to house music.


----------



## BoomBap08

which is better, kz zst w/ spc cable or tfz series 1?


----------



## Terran Earthson

Hello people, been looking to replace my one-drive armature XBA-C10 for a while, so after reading a couple of reviews, decided to go with ZS3. But after sweeping a few dozen pages in this thread, i fear to find they sound to be dark, this is not what i'm looking for. I need clear and lightweight sound representation in mid and high freqs, especially female vocals, and good instrument separation,(a more analytical sound maybe?)
 So which from all the KZ's will satisfy in that sense?


----------



## crabdog

terran earthson said:


> Hello people, been looking to replace my one-drive armature XBA-C10 for a while, so after reading a couple of reviews, decided to go with ZS3. But after sweeping a few dozen pages in this thread, i fear to find they sound to be dark, this is not what i'm looking for. I need clear and lightweight sound representation in mid and high freqs, especially female vocals, and good instrument separation,(a more analytical sound maybe?)
> So which from all the KZ's will satisfy in that sense?


 
 ZST or ED9 with brass filters


----------



## B9Scrambler

terran earthson said:


> Hello people, been looking to replace my one-drive armature XBA-C10 for a while, so after reading a couple of reviews, decided to go with ZS3. But after sweeping a few dozen pages in this thread, i fear to find they sound to be dark, this is not what i'm looking for. I need clear and lightweight sound representation in mid and high freqs, especially female vocals, and good instrument separation,(a more analytical sound maybe?)
> So which from all the KZ's will satisfy in that sense?




Crab made some good suggestions with the ZST and ED9, but if you're willing/able to stretch your budget a bit another single BA would probably be more appropriate for what you want; Brainwavz B100 in particular.


----------



## Podster

Man Terran that is three great suggestions now

BoomBap8, it is a very close call between the ZST and the TFZ Series1 but the deciding factor between the two for me would be the ZST for the cable changing option and it's still close because I just ❤️ my TFZ S1!


----------



## Terran Earthson

thx for the suggestion mates, gonna roll with ed9 since it's cheaper, and zs3 is already on it's way, will be fun to compare these two.


----------



## Podster

terran earthson said:


> thx for the suggestion mates, gonna roll with ed9 since it's cheaper, and zs3 is already on it's way, will be fun to compare these two.


 

 Cool, ED9 will be more flexible with two filters and you will be able to get more high and mid range out of it. But for sure you will have two different sounding iem's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You order the ED9 in sexy black?


----------



## Drakis

podster said:


> Cool, ED9 will be more flexible with two filters and you will be able to get more high and mid range out of it. But for sure you will have two different sounding iem's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Where can i get a case like that?
 I was looking for one that could fit ZS3 or ZST without problem.


----------



## Lotmom

drakis said:


> Where can i get a case like that?
> I was looking for one that could fit ZS3 or ZST without problem.




A bit strange, but I recently.. Misplaced.. My fiio e11 and the case It comes with it perfect for the zst's


----------



## Drakis

Ok.


----------



## VShaft

jojaonthebeat said:


> what's the difference between ZS1, ZS2 and ZS3? [...]


 
  
 Since nobody answered, I'll give you a rundown of my limited experience with these IEMs. I have the ZS2 and as of late the ZS3. The ZS2 is bassy, indeed, and even though I've found the bass overwhelming at first, I later realized it was my own doing - I've had bass boost turned on on my portable amp. After turning it off, the ZS2's bass sounded right. There's a lot of it, mind you, it's certainly a bassy headphone, but I didn't find it too much. The rest of the frequency range is OK, to my ears the mids and the highs sounded a bit recessed, while the bass is put upfront. However, the mids and highs perhaps lack some detail. As for the soundstage it seemed big to me. Wide-bore tips seemed to tame the bass a fraction, as well as put forth some clarity in the highs.
  
 I don't consider the ZS3 an upgrade over the ZS2, since they didn't sound like an IEM from the same series. The mids and the highs on the ZS3 are more forward, and they sounded almost too energetic - the drum kicks, the cymbals, etc. - for me during the first day or two (I think I mentioned it in my initial impressions in an earlier post). Again, brain burn-in, and now I've begun to appreciate the ZS3 for what it is, and that's a really great IEM. The ZS3 bass? Coming from the ZS2 it sounded like there's less of it, but also that it is a tiny bit boomier. However, I really can't trust my ears because after listening to the ZS3 for a week it that tiny boominess disappeared, probably the brain burn-in kicking in.
  
 Generally, I think the ZS2 would tick all your requirements except the details/clarity, which is average. Reading the after-purchase reviews here on Head-Fi and other places, I'd probably pick the ZN1 Mini instead of the ZS2.
  
 P. S. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I'm a beginner to this hobby and I'm still learning how to properly describe sound, so I may be off on some things.
  
 EDIT: Also worth mentioning, the genres I listened to on the ZS2/3 are prog metal, some prog rock, melodic death, doom, post-metal, post-rock, some classical and a few audiophile tracks (A few Dr. Chesky's, Sennheiser HD800 Test Tracks, etc.) My opinions are based on listening to this kind of music.


----------



## Mus1c

chinmie said:


> I do understand your point of view. lately i've been collecting earbuds because i found out for my personal preference, i like it better than iem. After listening to them and coming back to the ATR, it did sound muted and unexciting...
> 
> but...
> 
> ...


yea you were right chimmie haha atr is the best indeed best among all, i read wat you said in the post, after i read it i grab my atr and crank the volume and my face start smiling.i apologies for argument we had im start liking the atr right now.


----------



## chinmie

mus1c said:


> yea you were right chimmie haha atr is the best indeed best among all, i read wat you said in the post, after i read it i grab my atr and crank the volume and my face start smiling.i apologies for argument we had im start liking the atr right now.




glad that you like it mus1c, but don't crank it too loud though... still gotta care for them ears


----------



## Mus1c

chinmie said:


> glad that you like it mus1c, but don't crank it too loud though... still gotta care for them ears


yaa tq


----------



## Vidal

What's the considered opinion on the HDS1 vs HDS3?
  
 I prefer the HDS3 as it's got better clarity stronger treble, other than that there wasn't a great deal of difference between them.


----------



## Keller1

vidal said:


> What's the considered opinion on the HDS1 vs HDS3?
> 
> I prefer the HDS3 as it's got better clarity stronger treble, other than that there wasn't a great deal of difference between them.


 
 purely sound-wise i'd say HDS3 but overall i'd probably get the HDS1 since the knurl of the HDS3 can be irritating for long use periods.


----------



## smy1

saoshyant said:


> Oddly, the Sony E808+ which is dirt cheap even by KZ standards, and an earbud & not IEM, is really quite well received and for some people is preferred over a very respected and similarly inexpensive VE Monk+.




Philips she 3590 are really good.


----------



## hoerlurar

vidal said:


> What's the considered opinion on the HDS1 vs HDS3?
> 
> I prefer the HDS3 as it's got better clarity stronger treble, other than that there wasn't a great deal of difference between them.


 

 I would say the opposite! the HDS1 has better clarity and treble, while the HDS3 has a bit more bass, and sounds "cheaper" in the overall sound signature. But i haven't compared them more than just briefly...


----------



## Vidal

hoerlurar said:


> I would say the opposite! the HDS1 has better clarity and treble, while the HDS3 has a bit more bass, and sounds "cheaper" in the overall sound signature. But i haven't compared them more than just briefly...


 
  
 Not sure what cheaper sounds like  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'd say the HDS3 has more bass as well so overall more V compared to the HDS1


----------



## CoiL

Guys, please recommend me some replacement cables for ZST-C, with links please?
  
 Otherwise I will have to change ZST connectors for MMCX cuz I have some higher and lower impedance SPOFC cables to try out.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Pretty sure most of the people here just default to the KZ ZST silver cable so that we don't have to look around for compatible ones.


----------



## rad7

Did anyone try the KZ bluetooth earbuds? They look like an awesome value with bluetooth 4.1 version+ aptX + 10 hr battery life and costs less than $13! Did anyone test if they really have such a good battery life?
  
 Edit: Just found this older post for anyone looking at the HDSEs:
  


> About KZ HDSE, I can confirm that the music playback time is 3 hours starting from fully charged till low battery warning. and It take 1 hour to regain fully charged. This experiment is based on smartphone Bluetooth v4.0, non-stop playing FLAC 192kHz/24bit files at maximum bluetooth volume.


 
  
 That is not a good battery life at all. I guess I will have to look elsewhere.


----------



## ricemanhk

coil said:


> Guys, please recommend me some replacement cables for ZST-C, with links please?
> 
> Otherwise I will have to change ZST connectors for MMCX cuz I have some higher and lower impedance SPOFC cables to try out.


 
 The pins are the same as UE 0.75mm ones.  But the housing, you probably won't find it outside of KZ sellers...and from what I can tell, if you plug only pins into the ZST, they may not stay in as well as with the housing, as significant friction comes from the housing itself.


----------



## Podster

boombap08 said:


> which is better, kz zst w/ spc cable or tfz series 1?


 

 Man for me this is a really tuff one, only thing I put the TFZ over the ZST is bass response as the dual chamber TFZ seems to dig just a little deeper for me of course at a slightly higher cost to the ZST! For vocals I would probably stay with the ZST
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
@Drakis the case is here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-50-40mm-Black-EVA-Headphone-Case-Hard-for-BEATS-Power-In-Ear-earphone-PB-Pouch/32280472581.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.XxilHh
  
@CoiL I like the KZ silver for both the ZST's and the ZS3's but remember they are two different cables


----------



## shahkhan

Hi, I got a limited budget, and want to buy KZIE80 from aliexpress. Has any one compared the sound of leget sennheiser IE80s with KZie80 ones? Please share your impressions as this is quite a big thread, cant go through it. thanks


----------



## BoomBap08

thanks, man! 

seems that the zst w/ spc cable would be a better all-rounder, beater iem. I also found the s1 to be a tad bassy that it eats up the mids at times.


----------



## KcLKcL

podster said:


> Man for me this is a really tuff one, only thing I put the TFZ over the ZST is bass response as the dual chamber TFZ seems to dig just a little deeper for me of course at a slightly higher cost to the ZST! For vocals I would probably stay with the ZST:wink_face:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I never had TFZ Series 1 (it's discontinued and suceeded by the 1S now), but the 1S sounds more like ATR with a more refined sound & separation. Big bass, laidback treble, dark sounding. I sold it because I couldn't stand the darkness of the sound.


----------



## Terran Earthson

Does someone here have Urbanfun HiFi, can you make a quick comparison between them and various KZ earphones?


----------



## metonedeaf

Finally decided to get KZ after reading too many pages of comments and reviews from this forum. 
First purchase was the ED9 and a week after the ZST. 
First impression: not bad, doesn't require an amp to be able to hear everything. 
Reviews for both iems are all over the forum so there's no need to discuss them technically. 
I can say that for jazz (earl klugh, george benson) the ZST is the right earphone. Where as the ED9 sounds great for rock, pop but sounded awful when I listen to Genesis' home by the sea. The treble is waaaay to much. 

Anyway, I can say the KZ is an exciting brand. Better than the philips or sony at the same price range. Definitely worth buying. Thanks for all the reviews folks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

I'm going to buy a ZST, but I have heard in this forum that the Coloured ones are better tuned, but I like the Carbon ones looks better. Can anyone confirm there is a difference? 
 Also, is the Silver Cable worth it? Thanks.


----------



## nocchi

guywholikeshifi said:


> I'm going to buy a ZST, but I have heard in this forum that the Coloured ones are better tuned, but I like the Carbon ones looks better. Can anyone confirm there is a difference?
> Also, is the Silver Cable worth it? Thanks.




I think both are the technically the same, but when I demo both to the store I bought, I find the carbon one very muddy and the candy a v-shape with a hint of brightness. I dunno know if the carbon I tried has an issue but I tried switching from stock and spc cable it still sounds muddy.


----------



## BoomBap08

@nocchi prolly just a faulty carbon fiber unit coz to me, it's just the same.

@guywholikeshifi the spc cable is definitely worth it vs the stock. better detail retrieval on the spc.


----------



## Vidal

guywholikeshifi said:


> I'm going to buy a ZST, but I have heard in this forum that the Coloured ones are better tuned, but I like the Carbon ones looks better. Can anyone confirm there is a difference?
> Also, is the Silver Cable worth it? Thanks.


 
  
 There should be no difference between the models, early ZST which were only available as Carbon weren't tuned the same as later models. They were too bassy.
  
 KZ listened and revised the tuning. Most retailers should now have the latest stock - if you want to be sure you're getting the revised version then the Colourful only came with the improved tuning.
  
 Personally I think the carbon is a poor finish, I looks nothing like real carbon fibre it's more like the stick on bits you'd find at Halfords.


----------



## kokakolia

metonedeaf said:


> Finally decided to get KZ after reading too many pages of comments and reviews from this forum.
> First purchase was the ED9 and a week after the ZST.
> First impression: not bad, doesn't require an amp to be able to hear everything.
> Reviews for both iems are all over the forum so there's no need to discuss them technically.
> ...


 
 Great review! Yeah, the treble on the ED9s is just "too much" on some tracks. It's unfortunate that it affects a huge chunk of my library (lo-fi indie). That said, the ED9s sound awesome with EDM tunes. Call it Dubstep/Trance/House/Chillstep whatever...I just like to listen to these random playlists from 8 tracks or Youtube. 
  
 Do the ZSTs have the same problem with the treble as the ED9s? Or is it less of an issue.


----------



## metonedeaf

kokakolia said:


> Great review! Yeah, the treble on the ED9s is just "too much" on some tracks. It's unfortunate that it affects a huge chunk of my library (lo-fi indie). That said, the ED9s sound awesome with EDM tunes. Call it Dubstep/Trance/House/Chillstep whatever...I just like to listen to these random playlists from 8 tracks or Youtube.
> 
> Do the ZSTs have the same problem with the treble as the ED9s? Or is it less of an issue.


 
 The ZST treble is a bit less bright than the ED9. A little bit.
 Bass wise is also the same: the ZST has a tad less punch than the ED9.
 What makes me prefer ZST when listening to jazz music is that the ZST is has a bit weaker treble (less annoyance)  and it has better soundstage.
  
 As for the ED9, it comes with 2 sound filters. The gold filter lets everything through and the brass one is the cut-high-cut-low filter. The brass one is weird, used it once and that's it.


----------



## Mus1c

Is ed9 is comfortable because i seen it too bulky because shape of housing and i thought its not comfortable to wear?.


----------



## Mus1c

kokakolia said:


> Great review! Yeah, the treble on the ED9s is just "too much" on some tracks. It's unfortunate that it affects a huge chunk of my library (lo-fi indie). That said, the ED9s sound awesome with EDM tunes. Call it Dubstep/Trance/House/Chillstep whatever...I just like to listen to these random playlists from 8 tracks or Youtube.
> 
> Do the ZSTs have the same problem with the treble as the ED9s? Or is it less of an issue.


damn thats should be nice cuz i listen to edm genre often than other genre.


----------



## Viber

The audacity of selling a pair of 4$ Kz earphones for 44$ (plus shipping!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










http://amzn.eu/aNKSWcD


----------



## Keller1

viber said:


> The audacity of selling a pair of 4$ Kz earphones for 44$ (plus shipping!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And it's still got glowing reviews.


----------



## Mus1c

viber said:


> The audacity of selling a pair of 4$ Kz earphones for 44$ (plus shipping!):eek: :eek: :confused_face:
> [COLOR=111111]http://amzn.eu/aNKSWcD[/COLOR]


No you were wrong thats a betron iem not kz iem,although it has same shape of ed speacial but it not kz its different company.


----------



## Mus1c

Viberhttps://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/1987244299.html#autostay this is the real ones if you want to buy.


----------



## Viber

mus1c said:


> No you were wrong thats a betron iem not kz iem,although it has same shape of ed speacial but it not kz its different company.


 
  
 Please tell me you are not serious... that is a blatant re-brand my friend.


----------



## Mus1c

viber said:


> Please tell me you are not serious... that is a blatant re-brand my friend.


nah even the model number is different than kz Ed special and no it's no rebrand . that is just other iem there no relationship with kz iem.


----------



## crabdog

viber said:


> Please tell me you are not serious... that is a blatant re-brand my friend.


 
 Probably just an oem version of the casing. It's very common these days. Whether the driver is the same or not we won't know unless someone buys one but they've certainly 1-upped KZ on the accessories.


----------



## CoiL

podster said:


> @CoiL I like the KZ silver for both the ZST's and the ZS3's but remember they are two different cables


 
 Ok, thanks, will probably just get SPC upgrade cable from KZ since it is so cheap.


----------



## aaDee

Could these beat KZ ZST??
http://m.banggood.com/BlitzWolf-BW-VOX1-Hybrid-Drivers-Dual-Double-Drivers-Earphone-Headphone-With-Mic-p-1122367.html


----------



## CoiL

Aaaand... why? Plenty of dual-driver hybrids out there! Why would You think that or post such "promoting" pic of other brand in dedicated brand thread?
 Maybe Chinese IEM thread is more appropriate?


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Aaaand... why? Plenty of dual-driver hybrids out there! Why would You think that or post such "promoting" pic of other brand in dedicated brand thread?
> Maybe Chinese IEM thread is more appropriate?


 
  
 +1 .....Chinese IEM thread is more appropriate for different finds.


----------



## crabdog

1clearhead said:


> +1 .....Chinese IEM thread is more appropriate for different finds.


 
 Maybe so but I think they look pretty awesome!


----------



## Vidal

crabdog said:


> Maybe so but I think they look pretty awesome!


 
  
 I've never seen a promotional artist impression that doesn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## rad7

@Mus1c
  
 May I also suggest the ED10? They look great, compact and comfortable, have a traditional design (which I prefer) and as they are cheap, I take them to college every day without worrying too much about damaging them.
  
 I also have the colorful ZSTs and while the detail, clarity & soundstage of ED10s are not as good as those of the ZST, I somehow end up listening to ED10 more than the ZST. I guess that is because the ED10s have deep and punchy bass and it is well suited to the genres of music I listen to - chillout trance, trap music, etc. Also, while the treble on the ED10 is bright, in my opinion, it is not as bright as that of the ZSTs. As a result, I can tolerate ED10s for a longer period of time, for example when I am working or studying and need music to run in the background. I wish I can find a kz iem that is even darker sounding and less bright than the ED10 though.
  
 But when I want to concentrate on music 100%, at home, I go back to the ZSTs


----------



## kokakolia

rad7 said:


> I wish I can find a kz iem that is even darker sounding and less bright than the ED10 though.


 
 ....Errrrrrrr...Try the ED7s?
  
 They're not very bright. I like them a lot...but I am sure that most people won't. They don't have deep, punchy bass or sparkly treble. So I am pretty sure that most people in this thread will find them dull, dare I say lifeless? They're kinda balanced, but far from neutral. They're on the warm side.


----------



## nocturnalbeast

Hey everyone!
  
 Could any of the veteran KZ enthusiasts tell me which KZ is more comfortable out of the two; KZ ED9 or KZ ZST?
  
 Thanks in advance....


----------



## CoiL

ZST is better imho due to ED9 being quite heavy in weight and more prone to moving in ear, even if worn over-ear.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

nocturnalbeast said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> Could any of the veteran KZ enthusiasts tell me which KZ is more comfortable out of the two; KZ ED9 or KZ ZST?
> 
> Thanks in advance....


kzt for me


----------



## metonedeaf

nocturnalbeast said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> Could any of the veteran KZ enthusiasts tell me which KZ is more comfortable out of the two; KZ ED9 or KZ ZST?
> 
> Thanks in advance....


 
 So which is more comfy? well...
 ED9 has weight, you will never forget that you are wearing an earphone. Have I ever experienced it fall off due to weight? never so far.
 ZST is lighter. The over-the-ear wire doesn't have memory wire sleeve. The wire will fall off the ear easily if you bop your head or if the wire is wiggled. Not a problem if you don't move a lot.


----------



## crabdog

ZSR NAOW! I can't bear the wait.


----------



## To.M

Patient must young jedi you be!  

Well, no ZSR and no **** 6in1 yet...so back to music listening, someone let me know when they are released!


----------



## crabdog

to.m said:


> Patient must young jedi you be!
> 
> Well, no ZSR and no **** 6in1 yet...so back to music listening, someone let me know when they are released!


 
 Yes, indeed. BTW did you keep the Z6?


----------



## To.M

Yeah, it is still with me, I guess till T8 is out, it will keep it, then we will see. 

However, I must say I am more and more impressed with Z6. I think I needed some time to get used to its sound signature.


----------



## gvekiaris

I want cheap earphones for my XIAOMI smartphone 
Around 10 USD 
I want clear sound and GOOD microphone performance 
What models of KZ or other brands to choose? 

Please help me!!!!


----------



## kokakolia

gvekiaris said:


> I want cheap earphones for my XIAOMI smartphone
> Around 10 USD
> I want clear sound and GOOD microphone performance
> What models of KZ or other brands to choose?
> ...




You just can't go wrong with the ED7s. If you want more detail (treble really) and bass consider the ED9. 

A lot of people like the ED9s, but I hate them. They sound so fatiguing. Highs are too high, and the bass is boomy.


----------



## gvekiaris

kokakolia said:


> You just can't go wrong with the ED7s. If you want more detail (treble really) and bass consider the ED9.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people like the ED9s, but I hate them. They sound so fatiguing. Highs are too high, and the bass is boomy.



 


So you suggest me ED7s and second ED9 ?

what is your opinion for MICROPHONE quality? 

Other proposals of KZ and in other brands too


----------



## Vidal

> So you suggest me ED7s and second ED9 ?
> 
> what is your opinion for MICROPHONE quality?
> 
> Other proposals of KZ and in other brands too


 
  
 I think most KZ's use the same mic, only one I've seen that's different was on the HDS3.  Internally it might be the same circuitry.  I doubt you get any committed answer on this question.  You'll only know if there's a problem with the mic if you get negative feedback from people on the other end, that might not just be down to the mic itself. On a call the position, phone signal and what model of phone will also play a part probably more than the microphone itself.


----------



## gvekiaris

vidal said:


> I think most KZ's use the same mic, only one I've seen that's different was on the HDS3.  Internally it might be the same circuitry.  I doubt you get any committed answer on this question.  You'll only know if there's a problem with the mic if you get negative feedback from people on the other end, that might not just be down to the mic itself. On a call the position, phone signal and what model of phone will also play a part probably more than the microphone itself.


 
  
 Thanks for your info 
  
 Other models of KZ?   OR any other brand in the same price (around 10 USD)


----------



## Vidal

gvekiaris said:


> Thanks for your info
> 
> Other models of KZ?   OR any other brand in the same price (around 10 USD)


 
  
 Only speaking about KZ, conceivably other brands may use the same mic if it's an off the shelf component.


----------



## gvekiaris

vidal said:


> I think most KZ's use the same mic, only one I've seen that's different was on the HDS3.  Internally it might be the same circuitry.  I doubt you get any committed answer on this question.  You'll only know if there's a problem with the mic if you get negative feedback from people on the other end, that might not just be down to the mic itself. On a call the position, phone signal and what model of phone will also play a part probably more than the microphone itself.







OK do not worry for the microphone.  I got your point 



Except the microphone what other models of KZ or any other brand you suggest me?


----------



## Vidal

gvekiaris said:


> Except the microphone what other models of KZ or any other brand you suggest me?


 
  
 A lot depends on what you like as far as sound signature. If you can shed some light on that it'll help people suggest the right KZ or other brand.


----------



## kokakolia

gvekiaris said:


> kokakolia said:
> 
> 
> > You just can't go wrong with the ED7s. If you want more detail (treble really) and bass consider the ED9.
> ...




Yuppers. I have never used the mic.


----------



## fickennein

Hey guys, looking for a recommendation here.
 If i want an earphone that has more or less the signature of Fidelio X1, bassy with punch - good soundstage - not very harsh treble - but good separation,  which KZ should i get? i don't mind the v-shaped sound. Or if there's any other brand in sub $15, tell me.

 Now, my choices are KZ ZST and ED9. Let me know guys! Thanks.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ED9 and ZST are kind of treble happy though.


----------



## kokakolia

fickennein said:


> Hey guys, looking for a recommendation here.
> 
> If i want an earphone that has more or less the signature of Fidelio X1, bassy with punch - good soundstage - not very harsh treble - but good separation,  which KZ should i get? i don't mind the v-shaped sound. Or if there's any other brand in sub $15, tell me.
> 
> ...




The KZ ATE looks promising.


----------



## metonedeaf

I wonder why nobody suggest any yesterday KZ products like DT5 or HDS1 or IE80. Are they bad when compared to today KZ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rad7

vidal said:


> People are right to hype both of those earphones. If you can handle treble then they are both a great choice.
> 
> To buy the right headphone you first have to understand what you're sound signature preference is. You now know that you can't do strong treble so pick darker sounding headphones, I would suggest you try: -
> 
> ...


 
 Since I am a noob, I thought I should ask this question. When you say the treble is lacking, does it mean that such a sound signature can be described as dark and non-fatiguing for extended hours of listening? I want to try such a sound signature and have been thinking about getting the Tennmak Pros in the future. Since I already have the ZSTs, I thought it is a good idea to have an iem with a different sound signature like the Tennmak Pros.


----------



## alvinlim2010

rad7 said:


> Since I am a noob, I thought I should ask this question. When you say the treble is lacking, does it mean that such a sound signature can be described as dark and non-fatiguing for extended hours of listening? I want to try such a sound signature and have been thinking about getting the Tennmak Pros in the future. Since I already have the ZSTs, I thought it is a good idea to have an iem with a different sound signature like the Tennmak Pros.



 


In my opinion, I don't think being treble-happy and being dark-sounding is two sides of a coin. There are some earphones that can be neutral and strike somewhat of a balance, but some people are not as fond of a neutral, reference sounding earphones. 

I own the Pros and indeed they are more dark-sounding and easier to listen to. And my **** 4in1 is much brighter and treble-happy, and could sing well (pun intended) with certain genres of music. So it also do depend on the type of music that you prefer.


----------



## Nailzs

I got a new earphones by Rock Zircon I ordered off of ebay today. For under $12 shipped from China they're great. I like them more then  the KZ's I have.


----------



## rad7

alvinlim2010 said:


> rad7 said:
> 
> 
> > Since I am a noob, I thought I should ask this question. When you say the treble is lacking, does it mean that such a sound signature can be described as dark and non-fatiguing for extended hours of listening? I want to try such a sound signature and have been thinking about getting the Tennmak Pros in the future. Since I already have the ZSTs, I thought it is a good idea to have an iem with a different sound signature like the Tennmak Pros.
> ...


 
 I usually listen to chillout trance, trap music, post rock music, liquid DnB, etc. So, I like my earphones to have deep, punchy bass, but would also like to hear as many details as possible. I would like these qualities along with a less bright & non-fatiguing sound signature (I am not sure if that is even possible). As you mentioned, I may not like neutral, reference sounding earphones for listening to this type of music, at least in the low-price range of <$25.


----------



## alvinlim2010

rad7 said:


> I usually listen to chillout trance, trap music, post rock music, liquid DnB, etc. So, I like my earphones to have deep, punchy bass, but would also like to hear as many details as possible. I would like these qualities along with a less bright & non-fatiguing sound signature (I am not sure if that is even possible). As you mentioned, I may not like neutral, reference sounding earphones for listening to this type of music, at least in the low-price range of <$25.



 


I do own the KZ ZN1, which can deliver good punchy bass (but you will need a good seal), rather easy to listen to, but in terms of details, the mids can get rolled off at times. I listen to a mix of R&B, lounge chillout, jazz and vocals. The ZN1 can work well with tracks without much vocals. So it could be something you can consider. 

As I tend to lean towards more treble, clarity and resolution, I don't own too many warm sounding IEMs.


----------



## crabdog

rad7 said:


> I usually listen to chillout trance, trap music, post rock music, liquid DnB, etc. So, I like my earphones to have deep, punchy bass, but would also like to hear as many details as possible. I would like these qualities along with a less bright & non-fatiguing sound signature (I am not sure if that is even possible). As you mentioned, I may not like neutral, reference sounding earphones for listening to this type of music, at least in the low-price range of <$25.


 
 I think the ZS3 might be a good match for you.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Another +1 to the ZS3


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

I know I should probably just buy something at this point, But can anyone compare the Somic V4's to the ZST's?


----------



## Mus1c

nocturnalbeast said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> Could any of the veteran KZ enthusiasts tell me which KZ is more comfortable out of the two; KZ ED9 or KZ ZST?
> 
> Thanks in advance....


in my opinion for comfort is that i will choose the kz zst because it has Over ears style wearing and has the shape of tfz shell which it has put more comfort when you using it because it has the shape of the ear canal and sit perfectly in ear.


----------



## Mus1c

fickennein said:


> Hey guys, looking for a recommendation here.
> 
> If i want an earphone that has more or less the signature of Fidelio X1, bassy with punch - good soundstage - not very harsh treble - but good separation,  which KZ should i get? i don't mind the v-shaped sound. Or if there's any other brand in sub $15, tell me.
> 
> ...


try kz zs3 if you want puncy bass and big soundstage.


----------



## gvekiaris

nailzs said:


> I got a new earphones by Rock Zircon I ordered off of ebay today. For under $12 shipped from China they're great. I like them more then  the KZ's I have.


 
 Give us the link from eBay for the  Rock Zircon 
 I want to order


----------



## Mus1c

gvekiaris said:


> Give us the link from eBay for the  Rock Zircon
> I want to order


just find them on ebay


----------



## gvekiaris

mus1c said:


> just find them on ebay



 


Just give me the model my friend... 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROCK-RAU0501-Zircon-In-ear-Stereo-Earphone-Sports-Mic-for-Xiaomi-Durable-M4W8-/361648379918?hash=item5433ec580e:g:2YkAAOSwdqRXiMF0

Do you mean the above model or something else?


----------



## fickennein

mus1c said:


> try kz zs3 if you want puncy bass and big soundstage.







sometechnoob said:


> ED9 and ZST are kind of treble happy though.







kokakolia said:


> The KZ ATE looks promising.




I decided to go with the ZST, because my local store sold it for $9ish as a valentine's day promo, i know that doesnt make sense, but anyway they know how to make a single boy happy. Oh! And the good part is that i dont have to wait for that long 2 weeks shipping from china.
And if i dont like the sound, i'll just buy a ZS3 or ATE.
Anyway, thanks for your replies guys!


----------



## Mus1c

gvekiaris said:


> mus1c said:
> 
> 
> > just find them on ebay
> ...


yes that's true go buy it.


----------



## Mus1c

fickennein said:


> I decided to go with the ZST, because my local store sold it for $9ish as a valentine's day promo, i know that doesnt make sense, but anyway they know how to make a single boy happy. Oh! And the good part is that i dont have to wait for that long 2 weeks shipping from china.
> And if i dont like the sound, i'll just buy a ZS3 or ATE.
> Anyway, thanks for your replies guys!


it ok thats a great choice the kz zst is really good if you listen to some high quality audio since it has balanced armature to it.You can hear the details of thats sound if rock with other genre such as jazz or like orchestra concerts thats really needs the armature to kind hear all thats stuff going around in the room for example.


----------



## Podster

OK it's official, I am truly a "Wild & KZ Guy". Everyone really dogged the ED12 when it came out and I stayed away until the curiosity finally got to me and for $9 the ED12 is BASS HEAVY, narrow staged and lacking in micro detail but for the price it is still a fun iem for the price and if you like Hip-Hop, RAP or percussion's these babies remind me so much of the ZS2. Got another silver cable at the house will try it and see if the top end gets a little more sparkle but another budget offering from the KZ Crew


----------



## Mus1c

podster said:


> OK it's official, I am truly a "Wild & KZ Guy". Everyone really dogged the ED12 when it came out and I stayed away until the curiosity finally got to me and for $9 the ED12 is BASS HEAVY, narrow staged and lacking in micro detail but for the price it is still a fun iem for the price and if you like Hip-Hop, RAP or percussion's these babies remind me so much of the ZS2. Got another silver cable at the house will try it and see if the top end gets a little more sparkle but another budget offering from the KZ Crew:wink_face:


 its still a bad iem i will avoid it 100%.


----------



## Mus1c

podster said:


> OK it's official, I am truly a "Wild & KZ Guy". Everyone really dogged the ED12 when it came out and I stayed away until the curiosity finally got to me and for $9 the ED12 is BASS HEAVY, narrow staged and lacking in micro detail but for the price it is still a fun iem for the price and if you like Hip-Hop, RAP or percussion's these babies remind me so much of the ZS2. Got another silver cable at the house will try it and see if the top end gets a little more sparkle but another budget offering from the KZ Crew:wink_face:


it should be muddy sound right lacking details, bass heavy, narrow sound stage it's a dead iem for kz everyone will avoid it since you described how these sound.


----------



## Vidal

Remind you of the ZS2?
  
 Damned with faint praise or what.


----------



## rad7

sometechnoob said:


> Another +1 to the ZS3


 
  
  


crabdog said:


> I think the ZS3 might be a good match for you.


 
 Thanks guys for the suggestions! ZS3 does seem like a good choice for me.
  
 I know they are much more expensive, but I am wondering how do the Tennmak Pros compare with the ZS3. Do they have a similar sound signature? Also, do you think they would better fit my needs (to summarize, I mostly listen to chill out trance, trap, post-rock, liquid DnB and am looking for an iem with good, punchy but not overpowering bass, good soundstage and clarity & in general a non-fatiguing sound signature & not as bright as the ZSTs).


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Much more expensive?  I got mine for $7 on a Gearbest sale.  Looks like it's a smidgen under $9 now, but that's still a good price: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21
  
 Haven't tried the Tenmak Pros, can't comment on that.


----------



## rad7

sometechnoob said:


> Much more expensive?  I got mine for $7 on a Gearbest sale.  Looks like it's a smidgen under $9 now, but that's still a good price: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21
> 
> Haven't tried the Tenmak Pros, can't comment on that.


 
 Sorry, perhaps I was not clear. I was talking about how expensive Tennmak Pros are when compared to the ZS3s.


----------



## alvinlim2010

rad7 said:


> Sorry, perhaps I was not clear. I was talking about how expensive Tennmak Pros are when compared to the ZS3s.



 


I gotten my Tennmak Pros for around $20+ (cannot remember the exact price). So in a way it is double the price of a ZS3


----------



## SomeTechNoob

rad7 said:


> Sorry, perhaps I was not clear. I was talking about how expensive Tennmak Pros are when compared to the ZS3s.


 
 I must've just glazed over your post.  Rereading it and it makes sense now.  Oops, my bad.


----------



## Mus1c

alvinlim2010 said:


> rad7 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, perhaps I was not clear. I was talking about how expensive Tennmak Pros are when compared to the ZS3s.
> ...


----------



## Mus1c

rad7 said:


> Thanks guys for the suggestions! ZS3 does seem like a good choice for me.
> 
> I know they are much more expensive, but I am wondering how do the Tennmak Pros compare with the ZS3. Do they have a similar sound signature? Also, do you think they would better fit my needs (to summarize, I mostly listen to chill out trance, trap, post-rock, liquid DnB and am looking for an iem with good, punchy but not overpowering bass, good soundstage and clarity & in general a non-fatiguing sound signature & not as bright as the ZSTs).


expensive doesn't mean it good or better. Just stick with the zs3 it more safe choice when choosing a set of iem than buying other iem to compare. Kz zs3 is good for what ever genre you listen to,it can handle all with ease you will be shock how good these are.


----------



## Vidal

rad7 said:


> Thanks guys for the suggestions! ZS3 does seem like a good choice for me.
> 
> I know they are much more expensive, but I am wondering how do the Tennmak Pros compare with the ZS3. Do they have a similar sound signature? Also, do you think they would better fit my needs (to summarize, I mostly listen to chill out trance, trap, post-rock, liquid DnB and am looking for an iem with good, punchy but not overpowering bass, good soundstage and clarity & in general a non-fatiguing sound signature & not as bright as the ZSTs).


 
  
 Neither the ZS3 or the Tennmak Pro are what I would consider to be much to write home about in terms of soundstage. The ZS3 is the more thumping of the pair, whilst the Pro are better on clarity.
  
 Focusing on the clarity and soundstage requirements you also might want to consider: -
  

Mannhas E170
Xiaomi Pro HD
i.Valux 8mm Hybrid
Einsear T2
Audiosense AS20
  
 The Pro HD might be a bit bright, it depends on which bit of the treble you feel is too much on the ZST. Jumping in halfway through the conversation so sorry if I've missed and other requirements


----------



## Vidal

Oops, just seen under $25 so the i.valux and AS20 are probably too expensive.
  
 Instead try **** UES (the hybrid version not UE) and Kinera BD005


----------



## Podster

vidal said:


> Remind you of the ZS2?
> 
> Damned with faint praise or what.




Well they are pretty too, I mean $9! They walk all over the $9,99 cheap plastic Skull Candy's from Best Buy I think the ZST's have made you fella's a little jaded


----------



## Vidal

podster said:


> Well they are pretty too, I mean $9! They walk all over the $9,99 cheap plastic Skull Candy's from Best Buy I think the ZST's have made you fella's a little jaded


 
  
 With writing reviews for my site I'll be sampling some real unknown earphones soon, I've got about 8-9 on order, there's bound to be a few Skull Candy soundalikes in that lot.
  
 There's no 'Chi-Fi elitism' here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm hoping for some really bad ones that I can rip into.


----------



## nemosmknimh

Hi. I'm currently using Fiio M3 and however the good in-ear that was provided is now torned and on the verge of dying soon I guess. 

May I know if any of you ever use this in-ear and what KZ is comparable or better than the provided in-ear? My songs to go are mostly typical pop + ballads. 

Thank you


----------



## Saoshyant

Didn't the M3 come with an earbud?  Something like https://smile.amazon.com/EM3-Earbud-Earphones-Line-Microphone/dp/B01DB9OIHW/
  
 If it does, I would suggest the ZST which to my tastes performs better vocally.


----------



## nemosmknimh

saoshyant said:


> Didn't the M3 come with an earbud?  Something like https://smile.amazon.com/EM3-Earbud-Earphones-Line-Microphone/dp/B01DB9OIHW/
> 
> If it does, I would suggest the ZST which to my tastes performs better vocally.




Yes but it's torn at few places. I can even see the wire lol. Too bad cos I really like the sound


----------



## Saoshyant

nemosmknimh said:


> Yes but it's torn at few places. I can even see the wire lol. Too bad cos I really like the sound


 
  
 I don't quite remember the audible difference between the included bud and the one I linked, but if memory serves I've read that they have a rather similar balance.


----------



## nemosmknimh

saoshyant said:


> I don't quite remember the audible difference between the included bud and the one I linked, but if memory serves I've read that they have a rather similar balance.




That's good but from my experience, the built quality is not suitable for someone who is as careless as me. Feom this forum, KZ sounds pretty durable.


----------



## Mus1c

nemosmknimh said:


> Yes but it's torn at few places. I can even see the wire lol. Too bad cos I really like the sound


it look cheap tho that is why the wire torn up easily.


----------



## Saoshyant

mus1c said:


> it look cheap tho that is why the wire torn up.


 
  
 Anything properly taken care of should last quite some time, with the exception of QC issues.


----------



## nemosmknimh

saoshyant said:


> Anything properly taken care of should last quite some time, with the exception of QC issues.




Lasted me a year. Well it still sounding good but I need to patch it with some cloth tape. It can't really withstand twist and turn


----------



## Mus1c

saoshyant said:


> Anything properly taken care of should last quite some time, with the exception of QC issues.


yes, but someone with careless about thier iem it should not lasted that long tho but me i don't really like the way the material they use like ve monk it just look so cheap and easily be broken.


----------



## Saoshyant

mus1c said:


> yes, but someone with careless about thier iem it should not lasted that long tho but me i don't really like the way the material they use like ve monk it just look so cheap and easily be broken.


 
  
 It doesn't bother me, but then again I don't really use the M3's earbuds.  I have a lot of various Monks and have yet to see any issue with damage, so while they may not look to have great build quality I have no complaints so far.  But back on track with KZ, I'd be curious to see what they'd do with an earbud.


----------



## nemosmknimh

mus1c said:


> yes, but someone with careless about thier iem it should not lasted that long tho but me i don't really like the way the material they use like ve monk it just look so cheap and easily be broken.




VE monk died on me cos I accidentally step on the bud. I'm extremely careless. Was thinking to buy it again but why not try new brand heh. But VE monk actually is pretty tough against twist and turn.


----------



## Saoshyant

nemosmknimh said:


> VE monk died on me cos I accidentally step on the bud. I'm extremely careless. Was thinking to buy it again but why not try new brand heh. But VE monk actually is pretty tough against twist and turn.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds might be a good place to start if you want to keep with the earbud format.


----------



## Mus1c

saoshyant said:


> It doesn't bother me, but then again I don't really use the M3's earbuds.  I have a lot of various Monks and have yet to see any issue with damage, so while they may not look to have great build quality I have no complaints so far.  But back on track with KZ, I'd be curious to see what they'd do with an earbud.


sure if you care about your iem you will stay longer than it should be.


----------



## nemosmknimh

saoshyant said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/812853/absolute-best-budget-earbuds might be a good place to start if you want to keep with the earbud format.




Thanks for the link. 

Beside comfortability, any pronounced difference between in ear and earbud? 

Is this official KZ taobao shop? 
http://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?spm=a1z5f.7632060.0.0&id=538330941238


----------



## Mus1c

nemosmknimh said:


> VE monk died on me cos I accidentally step on the bud. I'm extremely careless. Was thinking to buy it again but why not try new brand heh. But VE monk actually is pretty tough against twist and turn.


after listen to music put it on a higher places like table to like avoid the mistake you had, dont put on the floor or else it might got you to step the iem.


----------



## nemosmknimh

mus1c said:


> after listen to music put it on a higher places like table to like avoid the mistake you had, dont put on the floor or else it might got you to step the iem.




More like was doing house chores while listening to song, earbud fell and immediately i accidentally step on it. The reason i wanna look for another budget replacement knowing how bad I am. Lol


----------



## Saoshyant

nemosmknimh said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Beside comfortability, any pronounced difference between in ear and earbud?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The earbud format due to design is not as proficient at bass production due to a lack of seal created.  It also doesn't isolate the way an IEM can.  IEMs aren't limited in the same way both in bass production and isolation.


----------



## Mus1c

nemosmknimh said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Beside comfortability, any pronounced difference between in ear and earbud?
> 
> ...


in ear is like the iem sit inside the ear with pair of silicon eartips and can give much details than earbuds.
In ear picture
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Earbud is sit outside the ear for casual listening and does not give the detail like the in ear with sit inside the ear.

Picture of earbud


----------



## Saoshyant

mus1c said:


> in ear is like the iem sit inside the ear with pair of silicon eartips and can give much details than earbuds.
> 
> Earbud is sit outside the ear for casual listening and does not give the detail like the in ear with sit inside the ear.


 
  
 There are many of us that would disagree with that statement.


----------



## Mus1c

saoshyant said:


> There are many of us that would disagree with that statement.


y correct if im wrong


----------



## Griffith

mus1c said:


> y correct if im wrong


 
  
 Buy these and then tell me with a straight face you still believe that: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html
  
 Until then, you are corrected.


----------



## Saoshyant

mus1c said:


> y correct if im wrong


 
  
 Rose Mojito http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Mojito-dual-dynamic-driver-earbud?search=rose%20mojito is an exceptionally detailed earbud, but this is really not a conversation for the KZ thread, my apologies.


----------



## Mus1c

griffith said:


> Buy these and then tell me with a straight face you still believe that: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html
> 
> Until then, you are corrected.


can you tell the difference between iem and earbud i think it the same thing right.nah i dont want to buy ve monks.


----------



## nemosmknimh

griffith said:


> Buy these and then tell me with a straight face you still believe that: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Venture-Electronic-VE-MONK-earbud-earphone/32417311324.html
> 
> Until then, you are corrected.




Any KZ in ear you've tried that sounds like Monk? I've tried Monk and it became my go to earbud before.


----------



## Mus1c

saoshyant said:


> Rose Mojito http://penonaudio.com/Rose-Mojito-dual-dynamic-driver-earbud?search=rose%20mojito is an exceptionally detailed earbud, but this is really not a conversation for the KZ thread, my apologies.


well there are really good set of earbud. Soory for my mistake i did not discover this earbud from earlier.


----------



## Mus1c

nemosmknimh said:


> More like was doing house chores while listening to song, earbud fell and immediately i accidentally step on it. The reason i wanna look for another budget replacement knowing how bad I am. Lol


i really recommend you to buy set of Bluetooth earbud because you do lot of chores at home and need a little free out of earbud wire that really annoy while you work. Buy these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Headphones-Hands-free-Smartphones-EP-B4/dp/B00V81BTBE it should get your job done easily.


----------



## Griffith

mus1c said:


> can you tell the difference between iem and earbud i think it the same thing right.nah i dont want to buy ve monks.


 
  
 Why are you twisting the question? This isn't what we were debating. You said a couple of things which are false:
  


mus1c said:


> in ear is like the iem sit inside the ear with pair of silicon eartips and can give much details than earbuds.
> In ear picture
> 
> Earbud is sit outside the ear for casual listening and does not give the detail like the in ear with sit inside the ear.


 
  
 Here's what's true: most high end earphones/earbuds are of the IEM kind because it is easier to get higher sound quality out of an IEM than it is out of an earbud. This is due to many aspects like the sound isolation, the resonance of the sound etc.
  
 There aren't as many high end earbuds as there are IEMs because of this but there are some and many company have proven that you can get very good sound quality out of an earbud. In fact, it was a Sennheiser earbud that started me on the journey to become an audiophile. Despite being the same type of earphone as the Sony ones I had been using up until that point, there was a very significant marked improvement.
  
 Of course I can tell the difference between an IEM and an earbud, they have completely different shapes, but I can tell a difference between multiple IEM and multiple earbuds. This whole community is based around debating the nuance and differences between different sound products but you seem to be referring to them as all part of one and the same.
  
 I know we're not meant to be insulting to other members but I find your opinion is severely misguided and misinformed. No one on this community wants any other member to have a bad listening experience. No one. We all want each other to appreciate the best sound quality they can. If you want to completely ignore earbuds by all means you're free to do that as a consumer or just out of personal preference but to say that they are of inferior quality and can't get good sound quality is outright false and I'd advise you against saying it.
  
 Different types of headphones or earphones had different limits in the amount of good sound quality they can get. For example the very best closed earphones don't sound as good as the best open earphones but that isn't to say that you can't get a closed earphone that doesn't sound great or has a great price and the same is true for earbuds.


----------



## Griffith

nemosmknimh said:


> Any KZ in ear you've tried that sounds like Monk? I've tried Monk and it became my go to earbud before.


 
  
 Most KZ earphones have strong or at least pronounced bass extension and the Monk doesn't. What the monk has is high resolution, good imaging  and high sensitivity to poor sources. I think the closest thing to it in KZ's lineup, at least out of the earphones I've tried is the KZ ATE, though the ATE has significantly more bass provided you can get a good seal.


----------



## nemosmknimh

griffith said:


> Most KZ earphones have strong or at least pronounced bass extension and the Monk doesn't. What the monk has is high resolution, good imaging  and high sensitivity to poor sources. I think the closest thing to it in KZ's lineup, at least out of the earphones I've tried is the KZ ATE, though the ATE has significantly more bass provided you can get a good seal.




Thank you for your input. Now I meed to decide either sticking to Monk or trying new KZ. I'm used to earbud cos it doesn't tire my ears as much as in-ear but Monk is quite too big though. Have to think more.


----------



## Mus1c

griffith said:


> Why are you twisting the question? This isn't what we were debating. You said a couple of things which are false:
> 
> 
> Here's what's true: most high end earphones/earbuds are of the IEM kind because it is easier to get higher sound quality out of an IEM than it is out of an earbud. This is due to many aspects like the sound isolation, the resonance of the sound etc.
> ...


i didn't change the question i just want to know what the differences between iem and earbud thats all, and i didn't say i ignore or hate them.


----------



## Griffith

nemosmknimh said:


> Thank you for your input. Now I meed to decide either sticking to Monk or trying new KZ. I'm used to earbud cos it doesn't tire my ears as much as in-ear but Monk is quite too big though. Have to think more.


 
  
 Another thing to note, since you mentioned the monk is too big is that out of KZ's lineup the ATE or ATR or other variants with the same shell have the hardest fit in my ears. A good option for you would perhaps be the KZ ED9 with the balanced filter on it (comes included). It sounds very different from the ATE but it has decent imaging, good sound detail and should you want or appreciate bass they have some of the most potent bass out of any KZ earphone, I found them to be very comfortable and fun to listen to.


----------



## Griffith

mus1c said:


> i didn't change the question i just want to know what the differences between iem and earbud thats all, and i didn't say i ignore or hate them.


 
  
 That didn't seem to be the case at all, it seemed like you were dismissing the differences between them but in any case...
  
 The difference between IEM and earbuds is where they sit on your ear and their shapes and both of those things have pros and cons.
  
 In very general terms, earbuds are more convenient to use because they don't require a tight seal and can be placed and removed quickly. IEMs require a good seal take more time to get on and off and can provide better sound isolation and better bass because of that.


----------



## nemosmknimh

griffith said:


> Another thing to note, since you mentioned the monk is too big is that out of KZ's lineup the ATE or ATR or other variants with the same shell have the hardest fit in my ears. A good option for you would perhaps be the KZ ED9 with the balanced filter on it (comes included). It sounds very different from the ATE but it has decent imaging, good sound detail and should you want or appreciate bass they have some of the most potent bass out of any KZ earphone, I found them to be very comfortable and fun to listen to.




What are the difference in sound between ATE and ED9? ED9 seems a better choice since over ear in-ear is a bit a hassle for me to put on.


----------



## Mus1c

That wh





griffith said:


> That didn't seem to be the case at all, it seemed like you were dismissing the differences between them but in any case...
> 
> The difference between IEM and earbuds is where they sit on your ear and their shapes and both of those things have pros and cons.
> 
> In very general terms, earbuds are more convenient to use because they don't require a tight seal and can be placed and removed quickly. IEMs require a good seal take more time to get on and off and can provide better sound isolation and better bass because of that.


 thats why i said before "correct me if im wrong" im not good at explaining these thing.


----------



## Griffith

nemosmknimh said:


> What are the difference in sound between ATE and ED9? ED9 seems a better choice since over ear in-ear is a bit a hassle for me to put on.


 
  
 They are very different sounding outside of the decent/good imaging. The ED9 have the strongest bass of any KZ earphone I tried and with the balanced filters they are supposed to sound more neutral but I found the signature to be too airy for my taste.
  
 The ED9 can either be a bassy V-shaped fun earphone or an airy-sounding bright'ish earphone that is, perhaps, less tiresome to hear. The ATE feels more like a balanced earphone with no big "thrills" in terms of bass or anything of the sort but plenty of clarity, great imaging and detail. The ED9 falls behind the ATE in all those aspects except imaging, where it comes close, and bass extension where it greatly outperforms the ATE.


----------



## Griffith

mus1c said:


> That wh
> thats why i said before "correct me if im wrong" im not good at explaining these thing.


 
  
 That's why I corrected you, with examples and explanations. What more do you need?


----------



## Mus1c

griffith said:


> That's why I corrected you, with examples and explanations. What more do you need?


 no i don't need anything. Tq


----------



## kokakolia

IMO, the ED9 is not very good. 

- You get an aggressive "V" sound curve.
- Mids sound recessed. Music sounds thin and dry. 
- Exaggerated treble leads to the illusion of clarity and airyness.
- Exaggerated boomy bass gives the illusion of deeper bass

IMO the ED7 >>>> ED9

You get a warmer, fuller sound without shenanigans with the treble and bass


----------



## nemosmknimh

kokakolia said:


> IMO, the ED9 is not very good.
> 
> - You get an aggressive "V" sound curve.
> - Mids sound recessed. Music sounds thin and dry.
> ...




How about ed10 and ed11?


----------



## musiclife

nemosmknimh said:


> What are the difference in sound between ATE and ED9? ED9 seems a better choice since over ear in-ear is a bit a hassle for me to put on.


 
  

 I bought all of the KZ. Was not impressed by a single one. Will post more explanatory review soon.


----------



## Griffith

kokakolia said:


> IMO, the ED9 is not very good.
> 
> - You get an aggressive "V" sound curve.
> - Mids sound recessed. Music sounds thin and dry.
> ...


 
  
 I haven't listened to the ED7 so I can't comment on that but you need to specify which filter you are talking about when you describe things like "Mids sound recessed" or "Exaggerated treble" because depending on what filter you have on  the ED9 at the time either of those statements will sound absurd. The ED9 is like having two earphones with immensely different sound characteristics into one.
  
 The only criticism you made which I agree with is that it can be exaggeratedly boomy with the bass filter on, but then again, just as it is a weakness it's also a strength for it can make some music sound very fun.
  
 The response is V-shaped, but "aggressively" I think is something that is up to debate.
  
 The mids are recessed, but not to the extent which you described them, at least with the bass filter.
  
 The treble is not exaggerated in my opinion, other KZ earphones like the ZST are much easier to criticize for their exaggerated treble than the ED9.
  
 But if you want something that sounds more balanced than the ED9 why not get the ZS3? That's a much more popular and well regarded KZ earphone and one that can be recommended more easily.


----------



## crabdog

kokakolia said:


> IMO, the ED9 is not very good.
> 
> - You get an aggressive "V" sound curve.
> - Mids sound recessed. Music sounds thin and dry.
> ...


 
 You should mention "with gold filters" imo


----------



## kokakolia

Look, I used the short filters on the ED9s because the long ones were too long! 

It made the earphones stick out of my ears at an uncomfortable length. 

Gold VS Brass? I don't know what you're referring to and I have a Bsc. in Geology. 

The only KZ earphones I own are the ED7 and ED9. I am perfectly content with the ED7. I will not purchase more IEMs in the near future (until my ED7s break, I am reckless with my gear).


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> Look, I used the short filters on the ED9s because the long ones were too long!
> 
> It made the earphones stick out of my ears at an uncomfortable length.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The KZ ED9 are very competent earphones. In fact they're actually two very competent earphones in one.
  
 The shorter filter it's oft described as *gold*, that is the bassier of the two. The longer one has a less polished finish is the *brass* one. I suspect in reality both are probably made in brass.
  
 Given that the difference in length between the two filters is miniscule you've really missed a lot out with ED9 especially when you consider some of the four points you listed as the ED9's faults are effective addressed by switching to the slightly longer filter.
  
 I think in an earlier discussion we discussed the fact that you are treble sensitive, is that right? Hence your liking of the duller sounding ED7.
  
 I think you should factor this in when making statements about earphones, other people who aren't sensitive wouldn't find the treble of the ED9 to be exaggerated.


----------



## kokakolia

vidal said:


> I think in an earlier discussion we discussed the fact that you are treble sensitive, is that right? Hence your liking of the duller sounding ED7.
> 
> I think you should factor this in when making statements about earphones, other people who aren't sensitive wouldn't find the treble of the ED9 to be exaggerated.


 
  
 Well, I certainly don't want my review to be invalidated because I am treble sensitive. I say that because other people in this thread have complained that the treble on the ED9s is "splashy" or "too much" (said someone listening to a Genesis track).
  
 So...I suppose that we can conclude that each person may review the ED9 differently. I think that we can all agree that the ED9 is bright. This is so evident to me, comparing the ED9s to other headphones I own like the Sennheiser HD558 or Philips SHP9500. And other people who aren't sensitive to treble may also find the treble on the ED9 to be exaggerated. That is a possibility. 
  
 Reading this forum, I am starting to believe that most people are not treble sensitive, but rather treble-seeking (for lack of a better word). I mean, consider all the praise that the ZSTs get. So exaggerated (i.e. increased) treble seems...desirable.


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> Well, I certainly don't want my review to be invalidated because I am treble sensitive. I say that because other people in this thread have complained that the treble on the ED9s is "splashy" or "too much" (said someone listening to a Genesis track).
> 
> So...I suppose that we can conclude that each person may review the ED9 differently. I think that we can all agree that the ED9 is bright. This is so evident to me, comparing the ED9s to other headphones I own like the Sennheiser HD558 or Philips SHP9500. And other people who aren't sensitive to treble may also find the treble on the ED9 to be exaggerated. That is a possibility.
> 
> Reading this forum, I am starting to believe that most people are not treble sensitive, but rather treble-seeking (for lack of a better word). I mean, consider all the praise that the ZSTs get. So exaggerated (i.e. increased) treble seems...desirable.


 
  
 It's the use of the word 'exaggerated', it makes it sound like the ED9 is a bad earphone, it isn't, it's just on the brighter side. I can easily name 5 that are brighter.
  


> Exaggerate - to magnify beyond the limits of truth; overstate; represent disproportionately


 
  
 Off topic
  
 Weirdly, I found the Philips SHP9500 too bright at times.


----------



## kokakolia

The brightness of the SHP 9500 is more forgiving because you don't have earphones jammed into your ear cannal


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> The brightness of the SHP 9500 is more forgiving because you don't have earphones jammed into your ear cannal


 
  
 Seriously? That's probably the most stupid statement I've read on these forums.


----------



## Podster

vidal said:


> Seriously? That's probably the most stupid statement I've read on these forums.




LOL, I'm still reeling from the ED9 is a bad iem comment myself. As an overall iem (especially with the two filter option) and imho the ED9 is and always has been one of KZ's best Now with that said we all do hear our iem's differently and YMMV


----------



## kokakolia

I know I am probably not making a case for myself. 

But I had a negative reaction to the ED9. I thought I would share. And it turns out that some people agree that the shorter filters (gold, it's brass with a different finish. Don't call a dog a whale) have boosted treble & bass. 

The longer filters cause me fitting issues, where the earphones fall out more frequently because of the longer length. 

I will say that I am not the most eloquent poster.


----------



## metonedeaf

@kokakolia: there was a posting by a member that suggested stuffing some foam into the filter to reduce the treble's brightness. Might want to try that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KcLKcL

Damn ZS3 is such a great IEM but I have a terrible driver flex, hurts my ear a lot. Did I have a bad batch or this is the case with every ZS3?

The nozzle is too short making it very uncomfortable for me


----------



## kokakolia

metonedeaf said:


> @kokakolia: there was a posting by a member that suggested stuffing some foam into the filter to reduce the treble's brightness. Might want to try that
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
 Sounds like a good idea. My ED9s are collecting dust because the ED7 have everything I like about the ED9s (soundstage, overall clarity) minus the heavy metal casing, shrill treble and boomy bass. So...why bother when the cheaper option kicks butt?


----------



## metonedeaf

b9scrambler said:


> Found a way for me to enjoy the bronze filters! MOAR FILTER!!
> 
> 
> 
> I added a touch of this porous foam, just enough to avoid covering the ventilation hole. This maintains the airiness I liked, dials back the treble a smidge and smooths it out, and bring back some of the sub-bass I enjoy with the gold filters. Gad damn these things are good!


 
 Give this a shot


----------



## Keller1

KZ Teased us too soon with the ZSR. I now just come to this thread from my browser hoping the latest images will be a zsr lol.


----------



## nemosmknimh

So for someone listening to standard pop/ballad songs, ed9 or ate better?


----------



## Mus1c

nemosmknimh said:


> So for someone listening to standard pop/ballad songs, ed9 or ate better?


ate will be good


----------



## CoiL

Agree, ATE 5th gen is good with every genre while ED9 can sound little "artificial" in highs with some genres and too V-shaped, even with brass nozzles (could have more midrange).


----------



## aaDee

Has anyone compared ZST with Somic V4?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I think I'm buying the Somic v4 for being a unique iem. All the stellar reviews don't hurt either!


----------



## Mus1c

laughmoredaily said:


> I think I'm buying the Somic v4 for being a unique iem. All the stellar reviews don't hurt either!


good luck with your somic v4


----------



## Nailzs

kclkcl said:


> Damn ZS3 is such a great IEM but I have a terrible driver flex, hurts my ear a lot. Did I have a bad batch or this is the case with every ZS3?
> 
> The nozzle is too short making it very uncomfortable for me


 

 Try changing the tips for a more comfortable fit.


----------



## KcLKcL

nailzs said:


> Try changing the tips for a more comfortable fit.




Already, been tip rolling with various tips, still hurts my ear


----------



## crabdog

kclkcl said:


> Already, been tip rolling with various tips, still hurts my ear


 
 Larger tips, shallow insertion.


----------



## hoerlurar

kclkcl said:


> nailzs said:
> 
> 
> > Try changing the tips for a more comfortable fit.
> ...




Have you tried rounded foams? 
Something like these:
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32777242868.html
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32477744702.html
They have worked for me with the zs3


----------



## VShaft

kclkcl said:


> Damn ZS3 is such a great IEM but I have a terrible driver flex, hurts my ear a lot. Did I have a bad batch or this is the case with every ZS3?
> 
> The nozzle is too short making it very uncomfortable for me


 
  
 I'm new to the ZS3, having come from the ATE-S which I thought was as comfortable as a (normally-priced) IEM can get. As much as it seemed unbelievable, the ZS3 topped them in that regard. I understand their design's been lifted from the InEar StageDiver, which was in turn molded as an average out of hundreds of people's ear shape impressions. The ZS3 fits me just perfectly - the nozzle, the shape of the ear-piece, it's amazing. Plus, I get a fabulous seal and effortless insertion with the M-sized tips. Even with the comfortable ATE-S I could still _feel_ them sticking in my ears. Not so with the ZS3. Sometimes I forget I even wear them. They fit me so well, now I find the ATE-S a bit uncomfortable...
  
 And there's no driver flex in my unit whatsoever.
  
 All that is to say, I don't think the problems you're having with your unit are common. Maybe you're just out of luck, and your ear shape differs from that average the ZS3/StageDiver was going for...


----------



## Viber

keller1 said:


> KZ Teased us too soon with the ZSR. I now just come to this thread from my browser hoping the latest images will be a zsr lol.


 
  
 Would you actually pay 90$ for a kz though?
 I think it's crazy to even pay 40$... their quality control just doesn't justify those kind of prices imo.


----------



## Mus1c

kclkcl said:


> Already, been tip rolling with various tips, still hurts my ear


if it stil hurts you ear don't use it anymore and does this happend to all iem you heard of? Or just the kz zs3.


----------



## KcLKcL

mus1c said:


> if it stil hurts you ear don't use it anymore and does this happend to all iem you heard of? Or just the kz zs3.




Yeah, my ZS3 is sitting in its case most of the time now. Really uncomfortable for me 

Other IEMs like TFZ Series 1 or ATR/ATE/IM50 are fine for me. So it's probably just my ears not liking the ZS3.


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

aadee said:


> Has anyone compared ZST with Somic V4?


 
 You must be Psychic. I asked that same question a couple pages back.


----------



## aaDee

guywholikeshifi said:


> You must be Psychic. I asked that same question a couple pages back.


 hahaha....but no one answered the question yet.


----------



## Keller1

viber said:


> Would you actually pay 90$ for a kz though?
> I think it's crazy to even pay 40$... their quality control just doesn't justify those kind of prices imo.


 
 Yes, that's why i'm asking. Their price/performance and featuresets have so far been top notch IMO and the ZSR checks a lot of boxes for me from the information we have.
 I've paid more for headphones that were worse than the ZST so i'm not really worried about the price as KZ has demonstrated that they can do a lot with a little, unlike some.


----------



## Viber

keller1 said:


> Yes, that's why i'm asking. Their price/performance and featuresets have so far been top notch IMO and the ZSR checks a lot of boxes for me from the information we have.
> I've paid more for headphones that were worse than the ZST so i'm not really worried about the price as KZ has demonstrated that they can do a lot with a little, unlike some.


 
  
 I would never pay that kind of money for a KZ, but i'm *very* interested to see how they do in this kind of project.


----------



## Shinry

Hi!
 Can someone explain to me, what those plasticpieces on the KZ ZST cable are?
 Those have no functionality for me and consist solely out of a 1cm piece of plastic with a hole on each site and end.
  

  
 Are those weights to keep the cable straight?


----------



## Saoshyant

Has anyone tried cables with the ZST other than the two standard KZ cables?


----------



## ForceMajeure

shinry said:


> Hi!
> Can someone explain to me, what those plasticpieces on the KZ ZST cable are?
> Those have no functionality for me and consist solely out of a 1cm piece of plastic with a hole on each site and end.
> 
> ...


 
 Probably to help the cable stay behind your ears, as the "weights" pull it down.


----------



## Keller1

shinry said:


> Hi!
> Can someone explain to me, what those plasticpieces on the KZ ZST cable are?
> Those have no functionality for me and consist solely out of a 1cm piece of plastic with a hole on each site and end.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes but they dont do a good job. The ATE had better weights, they made them out of this rubbery material that's not really heavy unlike the more solid (and better looking) metal one it had before on the ATE.


----------



## thejoker13

mus1c said:


> Someone please Admit that kzs3 is better than kz ate and zst cuz i want to buy it.


 I'll be the one to help you spend some money, lol. Get them, and you won't be disappointed! They're a fun, well rounded phone. I can't keep them out of my ears, even though I have much more expensive ones to choose from. You won't regret it!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

thejoker13 said:


> I'll be the one to help you spend some money, lol. Get them, and you won't be disappointed! They're a fun, well rounded phone. I can't keep them out of my ears, even though I have much more expensive ones to choose from. You won't regret it!


 
 Which more expensive phones do you 'prefer' them too?


----------



## nplateau

The ZS3 is a great all day set, and despite not having the absolute clarity of the ZST, provides a better overall balance of sound that I find engaging and far less fatiguing.  The highs of the ZST can be a bit too crispy at times.  The ZS3 is so much more smooth without losing too much of the details.


----------



## Podster

viber said:


> Would you actually pay 90$ for a kz though?
> I think it's crazy to even pay 40$... their quality control just doesn't justify those kind of prices imo.




Someone once said that about LZ iem's and look at the A4! IMO KZ will have enough QA for an expected $90 Hybrid that QC will not be an issue. I personally am hoping they hit it out of the park whenever it releases the ZSR


----------



## VShaft

podster said:


> Someone once said that about LZ iem's and look at the A4! IMO KZ will have enough QA for an expected $90 Hybrid that QC will not be an issue. I personally am hoping they hit it out of the park whenever it releases the ZSR


 
  
 This.
  
 KZ is stepping up their game and there's no reason for them to fail at it. They've more than proven themselves on the ultra-budget tier, so why not trust them when they're stepping up, too?
  
 I've had 4 KZ IEMs so far and none had any QA problems whatsoever, and as Podster said it, they're sure to tighten up the QA process for their shiny new flagship model. And if they indeed deliver on the sound quality (which I truly hope they will), why not give them the $90?


----------



## thejoker13

laughmoredaily said:


> Which more expensive phones do you 'prefer' them too?


I used to only buy what I thought was"good" because of their slick marketing. I updated my profile to include which iems I own. Basically, I was referring to my bose and beats iem's though. This hobby has blown my mind, because of what we're able to get for such a fraction of the cost as the highly marketed brands.


----------



## rad7

Can we use the stock ZST cable in the ZS3? I sometimes like to not wear my iems behind/around the ear & just wear them traditionally (in front of the ear). I can do this with my ZSTs by inserting the left bud in my right ear and right bud in my left ear. I am wondering if I can do that with the ZS3s too by using them with the ZST cable.


----------



## ricemanhk

rad7 said:


> Can we use the stock ZST cable in the ZS3? I sometimes like to not wear my iems behind/around the ear & just wear them traditionally (in front of the ear). I can do this with my ZSTs by inserting the left bud in my right ear and right bud in my left ear. I am wondering if I can do that with the ZS3s too by using them with the ZST cable.


 
 No.  The ZST wire housing is bigger than the ZS3 and won't fit into the ZS3 earbud.
 Meanwhile the ZS3 cable can "fit" into the ZST, but will generally be loose as the wire housing is smaller than the ZST.
  
 That said, I don't see why you couldn't wear it "down" with the stock ZS3 cable, although the ZS3 earbud shape itself doesn't seem to lend itself to wearing it down, but everyone's ear shape is different and it might work for you.
  
 What's wrong with wearing these earbuds over-ear as they were designed though?  I actually find it 1. more secure when running and 2. if I need to take 1 earbud out to hear something I can leave it dangling over my ear rather than have to hold the earbud (the case for normal earbuds worn down).  Unless you need to constantly put them on and off entirely (not just dangling off your ears), not sure what the benefit to wearing them "down" is.


----------



## ricemanhk

BTW still no updates on ZSR from their official taobao store.  I asked and the CS reps don't know anything either.
 Actually the shop is still the Chinese New Year design, so there hasn't been any updates on their page since before CNY.
  
 I think I saw some unofficial online website "pre-ordering" the ZSR with pictures taken from this thread.  Highly suspicious...don't get scammed.  Likewise some of the posts here that claimed the ZSR would be launched in Feb...it will come if and when it comes.  I would only get it from their official taobao or GB stores just to be safe, at least during the initial launch.


----------



## rad7

ricemanhk said:


> No.  The ZST wire housing is bigger than the ZS3 and won't fit into the ZS3 earbud.
> Meanwhile the ZS3 cable can "fit" into the ZST, but will generally be loose as the wire housing is smaller than the ZST.
> 
> That said, I don't see why you couldn't wear it "down" with the stock ZS3 cable, although the ZS3 earbud shape itself doesn't seem to lend itself to wearing it down, but everyone's ear shape is different and it might work for you.
> ...


 
 ok, thank you. Yes, It seems like if I wear them down, the "bendy" cord near the ear buds (that goes behind the pinna) might stick out in an awkward fashion. 
  
 And you are right, I don't usually mind over-ear iems and they have their own advantages. But sometimes, I use them in such a way that I constantly have to put them on and off or wear them one side only & in these situations, I feel that wearing them down is more convenient.


----------



## ricemanhk

rad7 said:


> ok, thank you. Yes, It seems like if I wear them down, the "bendy" cord near the ear buds (that goes behind the pinna) might stick out in an awkward fashion.
> 
> And you are right, I don't usually mind over-ear iems and they have their own advantages. But sometimes, I use them in such a way that I constantly have to put them on and off or wear them one side only & in these situations, I feel that wearing them down is more convenient.


 
 Just cut out the metal wire in the ZS3 cable then if you don't want the bendy portion.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Anyone know if KZ would release balanced upgrade cables for ZS3, ZST or ED12 IMEs in the near future.


----------



## ricemanhk

Don't know but I doubt it, balanced cables are still a fairly niche segment.  I'm surprised KZ came out with removable cables in the first place at this price level!


----------



## Lord Rexter

ricemanhk said:


> Don't know but I doubt it, balanced cables are still a fairly niche segment.  I'm surprised KZ came out with removable cables in the first place at this price level!


 
  
 That's KZ for you, ultra budget range astounding SQ for the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I'm thinking/wishing pretty soon they would release balanced cables as well. Can't wait for ZSR to be released.


----------



## ricemanhk

I've only recently looked into this, but doesn't the driver need to be designed to use balanced cables as well?  Or can you just plug in a balanced cable directly?


----------



## Shawn71

ricemanhk said:


> I've only recently looked into this, but doesn't the driver need to be designed to use balanced cables as well?  Or can you just plug in a balanced cable directly?




No & yes!......


----------



## ricemanhk

Interesting.  Well the ZST uses the UE 0.75mm pins, so maybe you can get a balanced cable with those connectors.  However, I've found that the pin housing on the earbud itself is not providing that much friction, rather the plastic wire housing is also holding the wire onto the earbud.  So you might have to cut up an existing cable to get the housing for it, otherwise the pins will come out easily.
  
 Another option (a more permanent one) is to use 0.78mm pins, but that will stretch out the connector and you can't go back to 0.75mm.  I mistakenly did this with my UE triplefi 10s before when my stock wire broke and I got a replacement cable but they were 0.78mm (it didn't say so on the pack, just said compatible with UE earbuds)...so now I can only use cables with the bigger pins.


----------



## Vidal

ricemanhk said:


> I've only recently looked into this, but doesn't the driver need to be designed to use balanced cables as well?  Or can you just plug in a balanced cable directly?


 
  
  
 My understanding is that 'balanced' are just a cable with separate -ve connections for left and right with a 4 pole plug (2.5mm or 3.5mm). Normally this connection is merged at either the splitter or the jack plug. Quite a few IEM could be switched to balanced just by swapping the plug.


----------



## ricemanhk

vidal said:


> My understanding is that 'balanced' are just a cable with separate -ve connections for left and right with a 4 pole plug (2.5mm or 3.5mm). Normally this connection is merged at either the splitter or the jack plug. Quite a few IEM could be switched to balanced just by swapping the plug.


 
 Yep, read up on it.
  
 For those who have tried this, does it make a significant difference with IEMs?  Or do the benefits shine more with full size headphones?
 Are there any portable balanced DAC+amp recommendations?


----------



## gemmoglock

ricemanhk said:


> Just cut out the metal wire in the ZS3 cable then if you don't want the bendy portion.


 
 I wished I done that earlier, my metal wire is rusting 
  


ricemanhk said:


> Don't know but I doubt it, balanced cables are still a fairly niche segment.  I'm surprised KZ came out with removable cables in the first place at this price level!


 
  
 To each his own but my only problem with KZ is the removable cables. I'm on my second set of ZS3 and experiencing poor connection on my left earbud. Otherwise very happy with the ZS3, much better and easier to drive than the ATR I have too.


----------



## AplexApple

Hey guys. 
Can anyone suggest a KZ iem to replace my Xiaomi Hybrids (they aren't the Pro HD). Sadly my hybrids are wearing down from the wire. I was thinking about the KZ ATE or the KZ ZST. 
The thing I like about my Xiaomi hybrids is the clearness and punchy bass. I like to listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop and occasionally some classical. Which of the two KZ, come close for my preference?


----------



## Mus1c

aplexapple said:


> Hey guys.
> Can anyone suggest a KZ iem to replace my Xiaomi Hybrids (they aren't the Pro HD). Sadly my hybrids are wearing down from the wire. I was thinking about the KZ ATE or the KZ ZST.
> The thing I like about my Xiaomi hybrids is the clearness and punchy bass. I like to listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop and occasionally some classical. Which of the two KZ, come close for my preference?


i think kz ate


----------



## metonedeaf

I thought the ATR is the successor of ATE. If that is the case then ATR is better right


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mus1c

metonedeaf said:


> I thought the ATR is the successor of ATE. If that is the case then ATR is better right
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yes it is


----------



## crabdog

metonedeaf said:


> I thought the ATR is the successor of ATE. If that is the case then ATR is better right
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
 What sounds better to you depends on your personal preferences, ear anatomy, source gear etc. ATR isn't "better", it's just different from ATE.


----------



## Mus1c

crabdog said:


> What sounds better to you depends on your personal preferences, ear anatomy, source gear etc. ATR isn't "better", it's just different from ATE.


but why they named after the ate if it's different? They must be the same thing but little bit more improvements in kz atr.


----------



## 1clearhead

crabdog said:


> What sounds better to you depends on your personal preferences, ear anatomy, source gear etc. ATR isn't "better", it's just different from ATE.


 

 +1 Yup! ....Some days I like the ATR's and other days I prefer to listen to the ATE's. Like 'crabdog' says -All about personal preference.


----------



## AplexApple

I have a question about the Zst
Are the black ones 
http://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
And different from the colorful ones? 
http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598797.html


----------



## crabdog

1clearhead said:


> +1 Yup! ....Some days I like the ATR's and other days I prefer to listen to the ATE's. Like 'crabdog' says -All about personal preference.


 
 I've should have a MEMT X5 soon, looking forward to it!


----------



## Keller1

aplexapple said:


> I have a question about the Zst
> Are the black ones
> http://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
> And different from the colorful ones?
> http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598797.html


 

 There was 1 revision of the black ones that was different ( the first one)  but nobody has reported getting a first revision iem in quite a long while.
 So only if you happen to get the first revision


----------



## AplexApple

keller1 said:


> There was 1 revision of the black ones that was different ( the first one)  but nobody has reported getting a first revision iem in quite a long while.
> So only if you happen to get the first revision


 
 I'm looking for something with punchy bass and clarity, similar to the Xiaomi Hybrids (Gen 4). Would these be similar or better? If not, what other KZ IEMs are similar?


----------



## Keller1

aplexapple said:


> I'm looking for something with punchy bass and clarity, similar to the Xiaomi Hybrids (Gen 4). Would these be similar or better? If not, what other KZ IEMs are similar?


 

 The ZST isnt your IEM. it's got good clarity but the bass is not punchy.. it's rumbly... maybe the HDS3? It doesnt have as much clarity but sounds pretty good in terms of bass response.


----------



## AplexApple

keller1 said:


> The ZST isnt your IEM. it's got good clarity but the bass is not punchy.. it's rumbly... maybe the HDS3? It doesnt have as much clarity but sounds pretty good in terms of bass response.


 
 I'll look into it, thanks for the response.


----------



## 1clearhead

crabdog said:


> I've should have a MEMT X5 soon, looking forward to it!


 
 Great!.....Can't wait to hear some of your comments on the Chinese IEM thread. Cheers!


----------



## Griffith

aplexapple said:


> I have a question about the Zst
> Are the black ones
> http://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
> And different from the colorful ones?
> http://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598797.html


 
  
 They are the same. I have both and can confirm it.


----------



## metonedeaf

I bought the black ZST because it was available and cheaper. I figure that any difference between the two (color and black) is minuscule at best and more of just perception


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wgrish7

A one month update on my KZ ATE's.
 Highs are not harsh. Mids are pushed bad quite a bit. Bass is muddy and not detailed.
 Overall, there is little detail in the sound.
 The build quality is nice, though. I like the cable material and 90 degree angled jack. The housing is quite big, and using the Comply isolation, the housing sticks out of your ears too much. So I was forced to use short silicone tips, which bring a downside of the phones not staying in my ears well. Speaking of isolation, the ATE's is not good at all.
  
 I want to compare the ATE's to the DZAT DF-10's. I just got the DF-10's in today, and the first impression resulted in the ATE's being tossed in the trash. The DF-10's have much more detail in all ranges. The sub-bass is more present, not protruding into the mids and highs, even with the use of silicon tips. The isolation is 10x better, even with silicon tips. They are lightweight. Twice the price, three times the sound.


----------



## khighly

aplexapple said:


> I'm looking for something with punchy bass and clarity, similar to the Xiaomi Hybrids (Gen 4). Would these be similar or better? If not, what other KZ IEMs are similar?


 

 You might actually try the ZST. I think the first person to give you a recommendation may have a broken pair of ZST. HDS3 is never really mentioned as a top contender in KZ land. The ZST colorfuls are bright, detailed, with a fair amount of detailed and accurate bass, plenty of soundstage, and they perform great. Top of my ChiFi list.


----------



## CoiL

wgrish7 said:


> A one month update on my KZ ATE's.
> Highs are not harsh. Mids are pushed bad quite a bit. Bass is muddy and not detailed.
> Overall, there is little detail in the sound.
> The build quality is nice, though. I like the cable material and 90 degree angled jack. The housing is quite big, and using the Comply isolation, the housing sticks out of your ears too much. So I was forced to use short silicone tips, which bring a downside of the phones not staying in my ears well. Speaking of isolation, the ATE's is not good at all.
> ...


 
 Wow... haven`t seen so bad ATE impressions. Which version did You get? S or 5th gen? 
 Almost seems like You have a bad unit. What is Your source gear and what tips are You using? Maybe bad fit causes problems.


----------



## Lord Rexter

metonedeaf said:


> I bought the black ZST because it was available and cheaper. I figure that any difference between the two (color and black) is minuscule at best and more of just perception
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
 This is good to know, thank you for your input.
  
 PS: I remember reading somewhere that the KZ ZST black version was a little harsh, so KZ tuned the ZST Pro version to address that issue.


----------



## ricemanhk

All the current ZST black and colorfuls are tuned the same, the only difference is the color of the housing.  Of course there could be differences at the individual unit level, but that's more due to QC issues.
  
 Some say early batches of the black was tuned differently, but since there's no way to check whether a particular set is an early batch unit or just by chance a poor QC unit, so there's no way to confirm or disprove this.  
  
 There is also no ZST Pro officially, KZ calls both ZST and only adds the color version to the name.  Some online resellers call the colorfuls ZST Pro and sell them at a higher price, but the driver is the same.  Official KZ taobao store is selling both at the same price.


----------



## Mus1c

coil said:


> Wow... haven`t seen so bad ATE impressions. Which version did You get? S or 5th gen?
> Almost seems like You have a bad unit. What is Your source gear and what tips are You using? Maybe bad fit causes problems.


 its must be the new one


----------



## Keller1

khighly said:


> You might actually try the ZST. I think the first person to give you a recommendation may have a broken pair of ZST. HDS3 is never really mentioned as a top contender in KZ land. The ZST colorfuls are bright, detailed, with a fair amount of detailed and accurate bass, plenty of soundstage, and they perform great. Top of my ChiFi list.


 

 I don't have a broken ZST, the ZST does not have punchy bass. OTOH, HDS3 is very punchy, not as detailed, and about as bright as a ZST.
 If you want punchy bass, you should stay away from the ZST, if you want rumbly bass, the ZST is excellent.
  
 The ZST is more durable and better built but the HDS3 is 4.50 Dollars/Euros.
 The HDS3 is more practical however since it's tiny.
  
 The ZST is the obvious pick in terms of sound quality but the HDS3 has a different sound signature that's extremely fun rather than the ZST's analytical bright*ness.

 I recommended it because the HDS3 is the most punchy KZ I own out of the few i have.
  
 edit: * - wrong description.


----------



## ricemanhk

keller1 said:


> I don't have a broken ZST, the ZST does not have punchy bass. OTOH, HDS3 is very punchy, not as detailed, and about as bright as a ZST.
> If you want punchy bass, you should stay away from the ZST, if you want rumbly bass, the ZST is excellent.
> 
> The ZST is more durable and better built but the HDS3 is 4.50 Dollars/Euros.
> ...


 
 Either your ZST does have problems, or your music/hearing preference is extremely V shaped, as the ZST is no where near neutral, it's pretty W shaped.
 Bass is quite evident (assuming you have a good seal), and sub-bass falloff is also somewhat severe, hence I wouldn't consider ZST's to have rumbly bass.  Just to be clear, punchy bass for me is normally describing strong bass and rumbly/boomy bass is describing strong sub-bass, and I would not consider ZST having significant sub-bass due to the falloff.
  
 That said, I haven't tried HDS3 so I can't compare the 2.  Perhaps the HDS3 indeed is much more V shaped and thus you find the ZST to be neutral?


----------



## Drakis

Just received my ZST colour... WOW!
  
 OOTB i notice it has more detail than ZS3, bass it not so obvious, it's more of a rumble.
 As it burns in, let's see how much better it can get.


----------



## Keller1

ricemanhk said:


> Either your ZST does have problems, or your music/hearing preference is extremely V shaped, as the ZST is no where near neutral, it's pretty W shaped.
> Bass is quite evident (assuming you have a good seal), and sub-bass falloff is also somewhat severe, hence I wouldn't consider ZST's to have rumbly bass.  Just to be clear, punchy bass for me is normally describing strong bass and rumbly/boomy bass is describing strong sub-bass, and I would not consider ZST having significant sub-bass due to the falloff.
> 
> That said, I haven't tried HDS3 so I can't compare the 2.  Perhaps the HDS3 indeed is much more V shaped and thus you find the ZST to be neutral?


 
 Yes. I meant it was clear/bright/analytical, not neutral, my bad on that one.
  
 What i have with my ZSTs [ got a black and pink one, both identical signature] is distinctly rumbly and not punchy, whereas the HDS3 lacks in the sub-bass but is extremely punchy.
  
 I wouldn't call the sub-bass on the ZST rolled off at all, and i'd say that it's lacking in the midbass, which is the punchy part.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

drakis said:


> Just received my ZST colour... WOW!
> 
> OOTB i notice it has more detail than ZS3, bass it not so obvious, it's more of a rumble.
> As it burns in, let's see how much better it can get.


 
 Let us know how it goes, in comparison. I just ordered the ZS3 because it was about $10 US on Gearbest, while the ZST is double the price elsewhere.


----------



## Drakis

laughmoredaily said:


> Let us know how it goes, in comparison. I just ordered the ZS3 because it was about $10 US on Gearbest, while the ZST is double the price elsewhere.


 

 I got mine on Aliexpress from H&Q Electronic Store, for €12,65 (USD13,35).
 From what i am experiencing, ZS3 sounds more cloudy than ZST.
 On ZST i can hear extra details coming from the same sound files.
 Try to hear Beck Mutations album (Pono Remastered version, 24 bit/ 96 Khz FLAC files) on both and you'll hear the difference i'm talking about.


----------



## rad7

Maybe, I am treble sensitive and don't like harsh highs, but I don't find ZSTs to be comfortable when I wear them for extended periods of time. I ordered ZS3 from gearbest as it is just $10. I know that they are not going to be as detailed and clear as the ZSTm but I hope I will like them. They are getting good praise on these threads.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

rad7 said:


> Maybe, I am treble sensitive and don't like harsh highs, but I don't find ZSTs to be comfortable when I wear them for extended periods of time. I ordered ZS3 from gearbest as it is just $10. I know that they are not going to be as detailed and clear as the ZSTm but I hope I will like them. They are getting good praise on these threads.


 
 People are also saying I have the same problem as you, I think we will like our ZS3s better.


----------



## rad7

laughmoredaily said:


> People are also saying I have the same problem as you, I think we will like our ZS3s better.


 
 I hope so too!
  
 I've been trying to find iems (<$25) that sound less bright than the ZSTs & have a gentle, non-fatiguing signature, but with good bass and decent clarity for some time now. Some of the other recommendations that I got till now are KZ ED7, KZ ED10, KZ ED3c (blue or red, not silver), Joyroom E103, Tennmak Pro, Kinera BA-05,etc. I thought I should start my search with the well-received and cheap ZS3s.


----------



## fickennein

So i got my ZST 3 days ago. I like it. The soundstage is pretty wide, and the detail and clarity is perfect. It's just that it lacks a punch in the bass, it has more of a rumbling kind of bass.
So, if i want to keep the treble/clarity from the ZST and a more punchy bass, which KZ should i try next?
Also how does the ED9 or ED7 compared to ZST?

Cheers.


----------



## Ruben123

rad7 said:


> I hope so too!
> 
> I've been trying to find iems (<$25) that sound less bright than the ZSTs & have a gentle, non-fatiguing signature, but with good bass and decent clarity for some time now. Some of the other recommendations that I got till now are KZ ED7, KZ ED10, KZ ED3c (blue or red, not silver), Joyroom E103, Tennmak Pro, Kinera BA-05,etc. I thought I should start my search with the well-received and cheap ZS3s.




Monoprice 8320, Vivo xe800, urbanfun


----------



## wgrish7

coil said:


> Wow... haven`t seen so bad ATE impressions. Which version did You get? S or 5th gen?
> Almost seems like You have a bad unit. What is Your source gear and what tips are You using? Maybe bad fit causes problems.


 

 I got the 5th gen from gearbest. I am using my oneplus x phones' dac. Is it possible to prove that I got a faulty unit?


----------



## kokakolia

rad7 said:


> I hope so too!
> 
> I've been trying to find iems (<$25) that sound less bright than the ZSTs & have a gentle, non-fatiguing signature, but with good bass and decent clarity for some time now. Some of the other recommendations that I got till now are KZ ED7, KZ ED10, KZ ED3c (blue or red, not silver), Joyroom E103, Tennmak Pro, Kinera BA-05,etc. I thought I should start my search with the well-received and cheap ZS3s.




Just go for the ED7s because they're definitely the cheapest of the bunch. 

You're looking at $7~$10 depending where you buy. That's practically lunch money for an earphone without much to complain about. IMO, they have the perfect sound signature. But most people here who lust for treble will disagree.


----------



## kokakolia

fickennein said:


> So i got my ZST 3 days ago. I like it. The soundstage is pretty wide, and the detail and clarity is perfect. It's just that it lacks a punch in the bass, it has more of a rumbling kind of bass.
> So, if i want to keep the treble/clarity from the ZST and a more punchy bass, which KZ should i try next?
> Also how does the ED9 or ED7 compared to ZST?
> 
> Cheers.


 
 The ED9 packs some bass (it punches hard). It's kinda boomy and works well with EDM. The ED7 is much lighter in the bass, but you can still hear it and feel it. 
  
 If you like the ZSTs, I think you should avoid the ED7s because you may find them dull. They don't have that boosted treble shine. They just have decent treble.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ED9s do have quite recessed mids though, so that might be something to keep in mind. I like my vocals so I don't find myself using the ED9 very often.


----------



## kokakolia

sometechnoob said:


> ED9s do have quite recessed mids though, so that might be something to keep in mind. I like my vocals so I don't find myself using the ED9 very often.


 
 Yeah! The ED9s have artificially boosted treble, recessed mids and boomy bass. The ED9s sound so thin. They make most folk/rock/indie music sound...off. I immediately hated these earphones upon first listen. But I can see why people like them, especially with electronic music. 
  
 With that in mind, you should really give the ED7s a try. They're awesome for vocal music and rock.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I've got way too many IEMs at the moment.  Maybe after a couple start dying...
  
 Happily using my KZ ZS3 at the moment.  Really liking the sound signature.  Warm and smooth.


----------



## eaglearrow

rad7 said:


> I hope so too!
> 
> I've been trying to find iems (<$25) that sound less bright than the ZSTs & have a gentle, non-fatiguing signature, but with good bass and decent clarity for some time now. Some of the other recommendations that I got till now are KZ ED7, KZ ED10, KZ ED3c (blue or red, not silver), Joyroom E103, Tennmak Pro, Kinera BA-05,etc. I thought I should start my search with the well-received and cheap ZS3s.


 
 Zs3 would be a good place to start. From your description, i feel zs3 shall cater all your requirements. I had recently ordered a zs3 for my friend and after having a listen, i ordered one for myself. It costed me just about $8 in gearbest.
  
 Regards,
 Nick


----------



## Daveydguk

I've got my ZST's connected to xduoo x3 using kz silver cable. With some tweaking they sound great in the bass range. Try reducing the 1000/2000 EQ range as I found them to be too bright in this area. Also changed the buds to softer kz zs2 buds which are more comfortable and give better isolation. Not sure if the ZS3's would sound any better ?


----------



## fickennein

kokakolia said:


> The ED9 packs some bass (it punches hard). It's kinda boomy and works well with EDM. The ED7 is much lighter in the bass, but you can still hear it and feel it.
> 
> If you like the ZSTs, I think you should avoid the ED7s because you may find them dull. They don't have that boosted treble shine. They just have decent treble.







sometechnoob said:


> ED9s do have quite recessed mids though, so that might be something to keep in mind. I like my vocals so I don't find myself using the ED9 very often.




How is the ZS3 compared to ED9 guys? But i heard some ppl have a hard time fitting them.


----------



## AplexApple

I went with the ZST instead. Just shipped out a few hours ago, hopefully they'll be here in the next few days. 
 I'll make another post comparing them to the Xiaomi Hybrids when they arrive. 
 Hopefully they don't disappoint!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

fickennein said:


> How is the ZS3 compared to ED9 guys? But i heard some ppl have a hard time fitting them.




ZS3 isn't nearly as V shaped compared to the ED9 with stock tips. ZS3 brings out more vocals and the treble isn't has harsh. Less midbass but more subbass. ZS3 is the way to go imo.


----------



## fickennein

sometechnoob said:


> ZS3 isn't nearly as V shaped compared to the ED9 with stock tips. ZS3 brings out more vocals and the treble isn't has harsh. Less midbass but more subbass. ZS3 is the way to go imo.



How bout the fitting? If you have the ZST is it harder to fit?


----------



## Drakis

fickennein said:


> How bout the fitting? If you have the ZST is it harder to fit?


 

 I find ZST easier to fit than ZS3. I use Comply T400 Medium (foam tips) on both.


----------



## fickennein

drakis said:


> I find ZST easier to fit than ZS3. I use Comply T400 Medium (foam tips) on both.



Do the housing make it harder to fit? Cause the ZS3 have that custom-like shape, with that much curve. Also, how the sound change with the foam tips?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The ZS3 fits my ear like a glove on a hand. But I can see how it might not fit for everyone's ears. It really depends on the shape of your ear.


----------



## ricemanhk

The ZS3 is supposedly copying some other IEM (shape-wise) that was the average shape of like 100 human ears or something like that.
  
 Basically it should fit MOST people quite well, and indeed it fits me well.  The ZST also fits me well though, and I prefer the sound on that, so they are now my daily drivers.


----------



## Drakis

fickennein said:


> Do the housing make it harder to fit? Cause the ZS3 have that custom-like shape, with that much curve. Also, how the sound change with the foam tips?


 

 ZST is smaller than ZS3, in my ears it fits better than ZS3.
 I cannot get a good fit with silicone tips, L-M or S, they don't stick in my ear canal.
 So i have to "stick" with foam tips.


----------



## fickennein

sometechnoob said:


> The ZS3 fits my ear like a glove on a hand. But I can see how it might not fit for everyone's ears. It really depends on the shape of your ear.


 
  


ricemanhk said:


> The ZS3 is supposedly copying some other IEM (shape-wise) that was the average shape of like 100 human ears or something like that.
> 
> Basically it should fit MOST people quite well, and indeed it fits me well.  The ZST also fits me well though, and I prefer the sound on that, so they are now my daily drivers.


 
 Ok, now im confused whether to get ED9 or ZS3. Which one is more punchy and brighter?


----------



## fickennein

drakis said:


> ZST is smaller than ZS3, in my ears it fits better than ZS3.
> I cannot get a good fit with silicone tips, L-M or S, they don't stick in my ear canal.
> So i have to "stick" with foam tips.


 
 Yea, me too. I had to throw away the ZST stock tips, cant get a good seal from them.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

fickennein said:


> Yea, me too. I had to throw away the ZST stock tips, cant get a good seal from them.


 
 Don't the ZST come with "starline" tips that most people recommend on here though for the ATR and such?
  


fickennein said:


> Ok, now im confused whether to get ED9 or ZS3. Which one is more punchy and brighter?


 
 ED9 with the stock nozzles without a doubt.  Much more V shaped.


----------



## fickennein

sometechnoob said:


> Don't the ZST come with "starline" tips that most people recommend on here though for the ATR and such?
> 
> ED9 with the stock nozzles without a doubt.  Much more V shaped.


 
 For me the starline tips are too stiff, i like softer tips.
 ED9 it is then.
  
 Hey, OOT, how's the T50RP sounds? Is it good a planar considering the price?


----------



## rad7

fickennein said:


> How bout the fitting? If you have the ZST is it harder to fit?


 
 Everyone's ear canal is different so it's hard to say. But in my case, I found that none of the stock tips that came with the ZST provided a proper seal. Also, I feel that the stock tips that come with the ZST are too stiff and are of a low quality. I tried many other tips from my other earphones and even bought the large Auvio tips. Finally, I found that the Mee eartips that came with one of their bluetooth earphones fit me the best as they are soft, high-quality and provide an excellent seal. So, I guess you can try different tips if you find the stock tips don't fit you well.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

fickennein said:


> Hey, OOT, how's the T50RP sounds? Is it good a planar considering the price?




Considering it's one of the cheapest planar headphones, it's pretty good. Comfort leaves a little to be desired so you will probably need to spend extra on pads and maybe a headband. The sound does feel a little bit congested switching between my HD 6XX and the T50RP though - that is the best way I can put it. The MK3s are clear but soundstage and separation leave a little to be desired.


----------



## metonedeaf

Any thoughts on KZ IE80? 
It's a discontinued iem that is available again. It's a copy of sennheiser iem bearing the same name.... has adjustable bass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fickennein

sometechnoob said:


> Considering it's one of the cheapest planar headphones, it's pretty good. Comfort leaves a little to be desired so you will probably need to spend extra on pads and maybe a headband. The sound does feel a little bit congested switching between my HD 6XX and the T50RP though - that is the best way I can put it. The MK3s are clear but soundstage and separation leave a little to be desired.


 
 Plana made me curious, do you think T50RP will be a good place to start?


----------



## Saoshyant

fickennein said:


> Plana made me curious, do you think T50RP will be a good place to start?


 
  
 While it can sound phenomenal after modding, I personally found it to be quite dull stock.  It's been awhile however, so take it for what it's worth.


----------



## Griffith

fickennein said:


> Plana made me curious, do you think T50RP will be a good place to start?


 
  
 I own the T50RP Mk3 they are really fun to listen to and my current go-to headphones.


----------



## zackdeth

Hey,anyone tried using the MMCX cable before ? I am on stock shure cable.Is it any better ?


----------



## Lord Rexter

zackdeth said:


> Hey,anyone tried using the MMCX cable before ? I am on stock shure cable.Is it any better ?


 

 Hey @zackdeth, I have FiiO RC-SE1B and it works good for me, here's a review of the upgrade cable: http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-balanced-cable-for-shure-earphones-rc-se1b/reviews/16441
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## zackdeth

lord rexter said:


> Hey @zackdeth, I have FiiO RC-SE1B and it works good for me, here's a review of the upgrade cable: http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-balanced-cable-for-shure-earphones-rc-se1b/reviews/16441
> 
> Hope this helps


 
  Hey @Lord Rexter ! Hmmm this is slightly more expensive right ? hahaha .
 The KZ ones is cheaper,dont know if they are good though.hahaha


----------



## Lord Rexter

zackdeth said:


> Hey @Lord Rexter ! Hmmm this is slightly more expensive right ? hahaha .
> The KZ ones is cheaper,dont know if they are good though.hahaha


 

 Hey @zackdeth, yes they are a little pricey costed me around $30 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I suggested them if you wanted them for your Shure's.
  
 I paid $17 KZ silver upgrade cables for ZS3 and ZST (half the amount spent on Shure balanced cable) they should be reaching me sometime in the 2nd week of Mar, can't wait.


----------



## fickennein

griffith said:


> I own the T50RP Mk3 they are really fun to listen to and my current go-to headphones.


 
  


saoshyant said:


> While it can sound phenomenal after modding, I personally found it to be quite dull stock.  It's been awhile however, so take it for what it's worth.


 

 Damn, now im confused whether to get t50rp or the monolith m1060.


----------



## Saoshyant

fickennein said:


> Damn, now im confused whether to get t50rp or the monolith m1060.


 
  
 I'd give it some time on the M1060 as initial impressions just started coming in yesterday.  There appears to be QC issues with the MMCX connection on one of the cups which will result in some returns.  As it is, there are only really some very initial impressions out there which very well might change for the better or worse.  The M560 at first had a lot of people expecting more due to planar and expectations were way too high.  The M1060 has the same issue, so it's really best to give it a couple weeks for things to solidify so you can get a better idea of what it's capable of.  I'm hoping it can give the HE-560 a run for it's money, while some are hoping it'll be on par with LCD2 which I think is asking a bit much for $300.  Either way, it has a 30 day return policy, so if you don't mind being out shipping costs, you can find out for yourself without much to lose.


----------



## Andrzej Cichy

Does silver plated cable KZ ZS3 fit KZ ZST?


----------



## Lord Rexter

andrzej cichy said:


> Does silver plated cable KZ ZS3 fit KZ ZST?


 

 No KZ ZST/ED12 cables won't fit KZ ZS3 since the housing is build differently. Hope this helps.


----------



## Andrzej Cichy

Thank you very much


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lord rexter said:


> I paid $17 KZ silver upgrade cables for ZS3 and ZST (half the amount spent on Shure balanced cable),


 
 Wow, I paid $10 US for my ZS3 headphone, is that cable supposed to make them sound that much better? Or is it for esthetics?


----------



## Lord Rexter

laughmoredaily said:


> Wow, I paid $10 US for my ZS3 headphone, is that cable supposed to make them sound that much better? Or is it for esthetics?


 

 I mainly bought them for esthetics, already read that there's little improvement in the SQ department, having said that it's not worth what I paid for.


----------



## Lord Rexter

andrzej cichy said:


> Thank you very much




You are very welcome. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## fickennein

saoshyant said:


> I'd give it some time on the M1060 as initial impressions just started coming in yesterday.  There appears to be QC issues with the MMCX connection on one of the cups which will result in some returns.  As it is, there are only really some very initial impressions out there which very well might change for the better or worse.  The M560 at first had a lot of people expecting more due to planar and expectations were way too high.  The M1060 has the same issue, so it's really best to give it a couple weeks for things to solidify so you can get a better idea of what it's capable of.  I'm hoping it can give the HE-560 a run for it's money, while some are hoping it'll be on par with LCD2 which I think is asking a bit much for $300.  Either way, it has a 30 day return policy, so if you don't mind being out shipping costs, you can find out for yourself without much to lose.



Yea, you probably right. I wonder though how will it compare to the he400s since it has the exact same price. 
Well enough for the planar talk. Damn, when will KZ launch a headphone. Or maybe a planar one.


----------



## VShaft

fickennein said:


> Yea, you probably right. I wonder though how will it compare to the he400s since it has the exact same price.
> Well enough for the planar talk. Damn, when will KZ launch a headphone. Or maybe a planar one.


 
  
 There is one KZ headphone. It's called LP3, and is available on Aliexpress for the price of around $20-25. Have no idea about the quality, though. They look rather retro.
  
 EDIT: A single available review on Amazon is pretty positive about these.


----------



## Saoshyant

vshaft said:


> There is one KZ headphone. It's called LP3, and is available on Aliexpress for the price of around $20-25. Have no idea about the quality, though. They look rather retro.
> 
> EDIT: A single available review on Amazon is pretty positive about these.




There's also the KZ V-Moda copy


----------



## gemmoglock

laughmoredaily said:


> Wow, I paid $10 US for my ZS3 headphone, is that cable supposed to make them sound that much better? Or is it for esthetics?


 
 There is just a touch of improvement in clarity and extension but really marginal so no rush to get it if it isn't cheap.
  
 As time gone by and my ZS3 cable/ear units start showing signs of wear and intermittent contact, I've used my ATRs more and the funny thing is now I like them a lot more!
  
 I realised the ATR actually is better extended and has better sense of space than the already-decent ZS3. However the ZS3 is a bit more boomy in the bass area as a tradeoff to its more energetic sound.
  
 As my Fiio X1 II has pretty well defined and slightly above neutral bass punch the ATR now sounds great with them. I hope the Brainwavz B100 on Massdrop compare favourably


----------



## kokakolia

gemmoglock said:


> There is just a touch of improvement in clarity and extension but really marginal so no rush to get it if it isn't cheap.
> 
> As time gone by and my ZS3 cable/ear units start showing signs of wear and intermittent contact, I've used my ATRs more and the funny thing is now I like them a lot more!
> 
> ...




Some guy who reviewed the KZ ED7s (there's literally only 1 review) on Amazon said that they share the same drivers with the ATR. I don't feel like buying earbuds anymore, so I can't prove or disprove this.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Yeah I think the ATR has a bigger soundstage than the ZS3, but the ZS3 stomps the ATR when it comes to overall clarity.


----------



## CoiL

gemmoglock said:


> laughmoredaily said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I paid $10 US for my ZS3 headphone, is that cable supposed to make them sound that much better? Or is it for esthetics?
> ...


 
 ATR needs some amping to really shine and recommend using starline tips. Change the ATR cable for lower impedance (stock is too high) and You get more clarity and details too.


----------



## gemmoglock

coil said:


> ATR needs some amping to really shine and recommend using starline tips. Change the ATR cable for lower impedance (stock is too high) and You get more clarity and details too.


 
  
 Yes, I'm on starline tips  Won't be changing the cable soon as I'm lazy but moving to a higher powered Fiio X1 II from a Shanling M1 has mad it indeed sound better!


----------



## JacuzziJoe

Hey guys,
I am very new to this scene, recently ordered a Fiio x5iii and got the Meze 99 classics and the KZ ZS3 for sports.

Now I read about the zsr but it is really hard to find some real information.

Can someone please sum up what we know, where the info is from, are they announced, teased?

Or is it just rumors?

Thanks


----------



## SomeTechNoob

> Or is it just rumors?


 
 ^^


----------



## Majin

What are the cheapest KZ options with a mic?


----------



## zackdeth

lord rexter said:


> Hey @zackdeth, yes they are a little pricey costed me around $30
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@Lord Rexter Hope you will give a review about it.hahah Cause I thought of using it on my Shure 215 and 315.


----------



## JacuzziJoe

sometechnoob said:


> ^^



Epic reply


----------



## fickennein

vshaft said:


> There is one KZ headphone. It's called LP3, and is available on Aliexpress for the price of around $20-25. Have no idea about the quality, though. They look rather retro.
> 
> EDIT: A single available review on Amazon is pretty positive about these.


 
 Ow, never heard of that. Doesnt look good for me anyway, it's an on-ear. I never trust on-ear headphones. But thanks for the info!


----------



## Lord Rexter

zackdeth said:


> @Lord Rexter Hope you will give a review about it.hahah Cause I thought of using it on my Shure 215 and 315.


 

@zackdeth Here are my thoughts on FiiO RC-SE1B
  
 Pros: Clearer SQ, retrieves more details (to my ears), comfortable to where them than stock, looks pretty good and very well built.
 Cons: Suffers with cable noise (microphonics) you'll need good cable management to avoid this issue.
  
 My gear:
 AMP - iFi IDSD Micro BL
 DAPs: FiiO X3/5 2nd gen
 IEMs: Shure SE-215
  
 For more detailed review by @Brooko check this out: Link!


----------



## VShaft

fickennein said:


> Ow, never heard of that. Doesnt look good for me anyway, it's an on-ear. I never trust on-ear headphones. But thanks for the info!


 
  
 I too never liked on-ears, too uncomfortable to wear for longer periods of time. There's the other KZ headphone mentioned, a V-Moda clone that I forgot about. It's called LPs and it's availability is limited. *Find more about it here* (scroll down to the end of the post). In any case, it's seems that headphones are, as things are now, just an afterthought for KZ.


----------



## actorlife

Anyone try the Bluetooth version with 4.1 aptx (kz - hdse)? SQ any good


----------



## Keller1

jacuzzijoe said:


> Hey guys,
> I am very new to this scene, recently ordered a Fiio x5iii and got the Meze 99 classics and the KZ ZS3 for sports.
> 
> Now I read about the zsr but it is really hard to find some real information.
> ...


 

 It's looking more and more like the ZSR was just a rumor.


----------



## VShaft

keller1 said:


> It's looking more and more like the ZSR was just a rumor.


 

 Why is that? Hasn't someone (I forgot the user's name) told he'd been communicating with KZ directly? Perhaps it's just a case of KZ inaccurately gauging the release window and realizing they need more time to develop it. That's what I'm hoping for, at least...


----------



## MAntunes

It was @robervaul. He said that it was a month late, so they should be out any time soon.


----------



## ricemanhk

Ohhhlala, here we're talking about the LP3 that's the super old one, but KZ is actually coming out (soon) with the new LP3
  
 http://kzyingyin.world.tmall.com
  
 2nd picture on the scrolling banner 
 Over-ear headphones with Bluetooth and also wired mode.  That's all the info from that picture that I can gather.
  
 3rd picture on the scrolling banner indicates different plates for the ZST, seems it can be customized.  Not sure if you can specify your own picture or whether they will just provide alot of different versions...anyway it's also coming soon.
  
 Still no news on ZSR...if it's coming soon like the other ones I assume they would've made a banner for it.


----------



## Kevang

Found a Taobao page with more picks of the new headphones. Listed as LP6(?):
https://world.taobao.com/item/544558734315.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.ASdVdL#detail
  
 They look really ugly IMO


----------



## VinceHill24

For KZ ZSR, last i talked to them on QQ they told me another 1 to 2 months more to expect. The prototype was made late last year they told me and so they're now in fine-tuning and production i guess. Well if there are brands like Trinity that can take months and months more after the expected date before releasing their product, i wouldn't be surprised at all for the ZSR wait.


----------



## ricemanhk

kevang said:


> Found a Taobao page with more picks of the new headphones. Listed as LP6(?):
> https://world.taobao.com/item/544558734315.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.ASdVdL#detail
> 
> They look really ugly IMO


 
 Your link goes to a seller with typos (saying the ZST is the ED9).  I personally wouldn't buy anything from that seller.
  
 My tmall link is the official KZ tmall store, so I would trust that a bit more.  Of course even tmall stores sometimes can have fakes, but these are monitored much more stringently than taobao stores.
  
 That said, if the price is accurate (308 RMB/45 USD) and the sound quality is good, that's not too bad for over-ear BT headphones. The looks aren't TOO bad, I've seen alot worse.
  
 Anyway, hope the ZSR does come to fruition and is launched soon!


----------



## hoerlurar

The KZ LP3/LP6(?) looks "inspired" by marshall monitor


----------



## Kevang

ricemanhk said:


> Your link goes to a seller with typos (saying the ZST is the ED9).  I personally wouldn't buy anything from that seller.
> 
> My tmall link is the official KZ tmall store, so I would trust that a bit more.  Of course even tmall stores sometimes can have fakes, but these are monitored much more stringently than taobao stores.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm well aware that your link goes to a more official source. I put the Taobao link up just for the extra pictures.
  
 Looking forward to the ZSR as well. Curious as to how the 5-driver setup is implemented (2 DD + 3 BA or 1 DD + 4 BA?)


----------



## ricemanhk

Previous posts mentioned 1DD + 4BA, but all seem to be rumors.  Still, 1DD + 4BA should make the most sense acoustically.


----------



## Viber

hi,
  
 Which one can reach a higher volume : ATR or ZS3? and by how much?


----------



## sharpex

Hi guys, what about the KZ HDSE?
I'm waiting for Gearbest ...


----------



## VShaft

viber said:


> hi,
> 
> Which one can reach a higher volume : ATR or ZS3? and by how much?


 

 The ZS3 is easier to drive, not by very much, but noticeable nonetheless.


----------



## rad7

I got my ZS3s today and I love them so far. I prefer their sound signature to those of the more clear and more bright ZSTs and I think these are going to be my daily drivers. They are also very comfortable in my ear canal. However, I am having a hard time getting used to the cable weirdly sticking out around my ear.It is also bothering me whenever I remove and put on my glasses back. 
  
 Are there any other replacement cables with mic that I can use with the ZS3s? Also, if I cut off the metal part that goes around the cable, will I be able to use the cable around my ears normally?


----------



## ricemanhk

rad7 said:


> I got my ZS3s today and I love them so far. I prefer their sound signature to those of the more clear and more bright ZSTs and I think these are going to be my daily drivers. They are also very comfortable in my ear canal. However, I am having a hard time getting used to the cable weirdly sticking out around my ear.It is also bothering me whenever I remove and put on my glasses back.
> 
> Are there any other replacement cables with mic that I can use with the ZS3s? Also, if I cut off the metal part that goes around the cable, will I be able to use the cable around my ears normally?


 
 Yes, you can cut off the metal part and the cable will work.  It's just a piece of bendy metal wire that's next to the main wire, then wrapped in a tubing.  Cut the tubing carefully then snip off the metal wire.
  
 I don't think there are any replacement cables made by anyone else besides KZ.  If you need the mic, the stock cable w/mic is the only choice you have.
 While the pins are standard UE 0.75mm pins, the housing unfortunately is KZ specific (and even earbud specific, as the ZST cable won't work on ZS3).  Here's hoping the ZSR (and other future KZ earbuds) use MMCX standard connectors...


----------



## rad7

Quote: 





ricemanhk said:


> Yes, you can cut off the metal part and the cable will work.  It's just a piece of bendy metal wire that's next to the main wire, then wrapped in a tubing.  Cut the tubing carefully then snip off the metal wire.
> 
> I don't think there are any replacement cables made by anyone else besides KZ.  If you need the mic, the stock cable w/mic is the only choice you have.
> While the pins are standard UE 0.75mm pins, the housing unfortunately is KZ specific (and even earbud specific, as the ZST cable won't work on ZS3).  Here's hoping the ZSR (and other future KZ earbuds) use MMCX standard connectors...


 
 Thank you!
  
 Update: I removed the metal wire and the tubing and I love the ZS3s even more now! They are a steal at $10.


----------



## VShaft

rad7 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Update: I removed the metal wire and the tubing and I love the ZS3s even more now! They are a steal at $10.


 
  
 Also worth noting, I don't have the silver upgrade cable, but people said its more durable and a bit differently built, doesn't have the memory wire but a memory "membrane" or coating on the around-the-ear-part - like some previous KZ models.
  
 P. S. Check your cable insertion here. Probably it's the picture quality, but I can't read the L on the left ear-piece. The L on the cable should be facing outward just like the writing "Left" on the ear-piece (also R and "Right" on the other).


----------



## ricemanhk

vshaft said:


> Also worth noting, I don't have the silver upgrade cable, but people said its more durable and a bit differently built, doesn't have the memory wire but a memory "membrane" or coating on the around-the-ear-part - like some previous KZ models.
> 
> P. S. Check your cable insertion here. Probably it's the picture quality, but I can't read the L on the left ear-piece. The L on the cable should be facing outward just like the writing "Left" on the ear-piece (also R and "Right" on the other).


 
  
 My ZS3 silver cable also had the memory wire under the tube, but I think some others here received ones without the wire.  ZST stock and silver cables do not have the memory wire.
  
 All the KZ silver cables do feel a bit nicer and feels more durable than the stock, but they all lack the mic.


----------



## rad7

vshaft said:


> Also worth noting, I don't have the silver upgrade cable, but people said its more durable and a bit differently built, doesn't have the memory wire but a memory "membrane" or coating on the around-the-ear-part - like some previous KZ models.
> 
> P. S. Check your cable insertion here. Probably it's the picture quality, but I can't read the L on the left ear-piece. The L on the cable should be facing outward just like the writing "Left" on the ear-piece (also R and "Right" on the other).


 
  Thank you! Yes, my cell phone picture quality is bad. The "L" on the wire is indeed facing the "Left" on the left ear piece.


----------



## sharpex

sharpex said:


> Hi guys, what about the KZ HDSE?
> I'm waiting for Gearbest ...


 
Anyone who has ?


----------



## actorlife

sharpex said:


> [COLOR=555555]Anyone who[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]has [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]? [/COLOR]



Looks like no one has tried it here. It did get good reviews. I might buy a pair up in a couple of weeks. Aptx and 4.1 bluetooth at that price is great. Reviews:http://m.banggood.com/KZ-HDSE-Bluetooth-Headphone-Sports-Earphone-p-1082324.html


----------



## sharpex

actorlife said:


> Looks like no one has tried it here. It did get good reviews. I might buy a pair up in a couple of weeks. Aptx and 4.1 bluetooth at that price is great. Reviews:http://m.banggood.com/KZ-HDSE-Bluetooth-Headphone-Sports-Earphone-p-1082324.html


 
Thank you! 157 sold and now exhausted I like ... KZ did not disappoint.


----------



## hoerlurar

sharpex said:


> sharpex said:
> 
> 
> > [COLOR=555555]Hi guys, what about the KZ HDSE?[/COLOR]
> ...




I don't really like them. I'd rather buy qcy qy19, much better sound quality and clarity.


----------



## actorlife

sharpex said:


> [COLOR=555555]Thank you! [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]157[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]sold and[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]now[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]exhausted[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]I like[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]...[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]KZ[/COLOR][COLOR=555555] [/COLOR][COLOR=555555]did not disappoint[/COLOR][COLOR=555555].[/COLOR]



I have these and they are amazing 4.0 BT with aptx. They were on sale for $10us you might find them on ebay for cheap:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WUDX250/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## actorlife

hoerlurar said:


> I don't really like them. I'd rather buy qcy qy19, much better sound quality and clarity.



What did you not like about them?


----------



## rad7

actorlife said:


> What did you not like about them?


 
 I don't own them but some users in this thread have complained that they have very short battery life. It seems KZ discontinued it and is working on new bluetooth earphones.


----------



## metonedeaf

actorlife said:


> hoerlurar said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really like them. I'd rather buy qcy qy19, much better sound quality and clarity.
> ...



I bought qcy19 not because of sound quality but battery life.
Qcy19 battery lasted 9+ hours (personal experience), where as hdse only rated 3.5 hours (based on people's review).
I do outdoor sport like jogging and mountain biking, so I don't want it to be dead in the middle of the trip. So far qcy19 survived rain and sweat. 








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jipan

I got ATE-S several days ago and it has little vent hole! My friend ATR has it too, while my ATE didn't. I really wish KZ improve their consistency....


----------



## MissChristie

MY ZS3 and ZST came in from Gearbest. I'm digging the ZS3, but the ZST sounds off. The mids have absolutely no body to them, the midbass too though there is a good amount of subbass. Highs were rough and not quite piercing, but far brighter than what I would have preferred.


----------



## ricemanhk

misschristie said:


> MY ZS3 and ZST came in from Gearbest. I'm digging the ZS3, but the ZST sounds off. The mids have absolutely no body to them, the midbass too though there is a good amount of subbass. Highs were rough and not quite piercing, but far brighter than what I would have preferred.


 
 Try the polarity test first to make sure it's correct.  Not saying you put in the wires wrong (it happens!) but some here have earbuds that had the wrong polarity built in so they're forced to put in the wires wrong way to get the right polarity.  If that's the case, return it to GB to get another pair.
  
 If polarity checks out, then let the ZST burn in for a few hours to a day, use the 1More burn-in app for automated burn-in.
  
 If that still doesn't improve it, then it's quite likely you prefer a warmer sound and the fuller bass you get from ZS3.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ZS3 is


----------



## kokakolia

sometechnoob said:


> ZS3 is


 
 Just listened to the ED7s today...and thought the same thing LOL. 
  
 The ED9s are still collecting dust


----------



## MissChristie

ricemanhk said:


> Try the polarity test first to make sure it's correct.  Not saying you put in the wires wrong (it happens!) but some here have earbuds that had the wrong polarity built in so they're forced to put in the wires wrong way to get the right polarity.  If that's the case, return it to GB to get another pair.
> 
> If polarity checks out, then let the ZST burn in for a few hours to a day, use the 1More burn-in app for automated burn-in.
> 
> If that still doesn't improve it, then it's quite likely you prefer a warmer sound and the fuller bass you get from ZS3.




OMG Thank you so much! I had put the wires in backwards! Made a night and day difference!


----------



## tmk2

After looking at this thread for the past two weeks, and after stumbling onto a Reddit thread about the world of chi-fi, I'm stuck in between ZST and the ZS3. I'm currently looking on and will be ordering off GearBest, and I'm gonna be using the stock cable for a month or two before buying a silver cable. [I think] I know the differences between the two and have been leaning towards the ZST's because they seem to be newer, they come with the better tips, and they have better clarity/high+mids.
 But before I purchase them I thought I'd ask the thread first for help.
  
 P.S. I mostly listen to Eric Prydz/House/EDM and podcasts, but I do like to listen to Childish Gambino and 70's rock from time to time.


----------



## VShaft

jipan said:


> I got ATE-S several days ago and it has little vent hole! My friend ATR has it too, while my ATE didn't. I really wish KZ improve their consistency....


 

 It's not a consistency issue. It's not like someone's putting vent holes at random. It's an upgrade to the older model (another version). It seems KZ is constantly re-tuning and slightly re-making their IEMs without notice and/or any special markings on them to denote the iteration. People here report there have been 5 versions of the ATE, the latest ATE do have holes just like the ATE-S.


----------



## ricemanhk

tmk2 said:


> After looking at this thread for the past two weeks, and after stumbling onto a Reddit thread about the world of chi-fi, I'm stuck in between ZST and the ZS3. I'm currently looking on and will be ordering off GearBest, and I'm gonna be using the stock cable for a month or two before buying a silver cable. [I think] I know the differences between the two and have been leaning towards the ZST's because they seem to be newer, they come with the better tips, and they have better clarity/high+mids.
> But before I purchase them I thought I'd ask the thread first for help.
> 
> P.S. I mostly listen to Eric Prydz/House/EDM and podcasts, but I do like to listen to Childish Gambino and 70's rock from time to time.


 
 Between the 2, ZST is the better all rounder.  W shaped sound, the treble is lovely for me but some who are treble sensitive think it's too bright.  Bass is sufficient and resolution is great.  ZS3 meanwhile is more warm and bass heavy at the expense of clarity.  I personally prefer the ZST by a significant margin, but I prefer more resolution and clarity than bass.  I tend to listen more to classical, vocals and pop.
  
 Many shops will sell the silver cable together with the stock as a package, if you want to get the silver cable eventually anyway might as well get the bundle at a cheaper cost.  Sound doesn't differ much but the silver wire feels more durable, definitely tangles less than the stock cable (which is quite a grippy rubber material) and looks great.  Only thing is the silver cable doesn't come with a mic.
  
 Ultimately though, the 2 aren't THAT expensive, get both and fall down the deep KZ rabbit hole...


----------



## sharpex

actorlife said:


> I have these and they are amazing 4.0 BT with aptx. They were on sale for $10us you might find them on ebay for cheap:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WUDX250/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 
 Now expect to arrive and then I will test, then take the MPOW ... the duration does not interest me much, I will use the only short distances, not abandoning the old loved (and hated) cables.
 Thank you.


----------



## kokakolia

tmk2 said:


> After looking at this thread for the past two weeks, and after stumbling onto a Reddit thread about the world of chi-fi, I'm stuck in between ZST and the ZS3. I'm currently looking on and will be ordering off GearBest, and I'm gonna be using the stock cable for a month or two before buying a silver cable. [I think] I know the differences between the two and have been leaning towards the ZST's because they seem to be newer, they come with the better tips, and they have better clarity/high+mids.
> But before I purchase them I thought I'd ask the thread first for help.
> 
> P.S. I mostly listen to Eric Prydz/House/EDM and podcasts, but I do like to listen to Childish Gambino and 70's rock from time to time.




Careful with the word clarity. It's often an illusion created by boosted treble. I would personally avoid the ZSTs (based on some of the impressions) but I am sensitive to treble. 

I dunno what say because haven't owned either of these. 

I just LOVE the ED7s for rock/folk music. It's tuned perfectly for these genres.


----------



## actorlife

sharpex said:


> Now expect to arrive and then I will test, then take the MPOW ... the duration does not interest me much, I will use the only short distances, not abandoning the old loved (and hated) cables.
> Thank you.



Fantastic let us know what you think.


----------



## AplexApple

tmk2 said:


> After looking at this thread for the past two weeks, and after stumbling onto a Reddit thread about the world of chi-fi, I'm stuck in between ZST and the ZS3. I'm currently looking on and will be ordering off GearBest, and I'm gonna be using the stock cable for a month or two before buying a silver cable. [I think] I know the differences between the two and have been leaning towards the ZST's because they seem to be newer, they come with the better tips, and they have better clarity/high+mids.
> But before I purchase them I thought I'd ask the thread first for help.
> 
> P.S. I mostly listen to Eric Prydz/House/EDM and podcasts, but I do like to listen to Childish Gambino and 70's rock from time to time.



I would reccomend the ZST. I love the clarity and the somewhat punchy bass. I use them to listen to a lot of hip hop and the bass of these are great for my needs. Although if you want more bass. Go for the ZS3s. Although they won't have the clarity the ZST have.


----------



## zackdeth

Anyone can recommend the best KZ IEM??

 Best with fit,isolation and good for those who likes heavy bass (Not EDM kind of heavy)


----------



## gobin

zackdeth said:


> Anyone can recommend the best KZ IEM??
> 
> Best with fit,isolation and good for those who likes heavy bass (Not EDM kind of heavy)


 
 KZ ZS3 should be your pick.
  
 None of my other IEMs has better fit and isolation than it.


----------



## nplateau

My experience between the ZST and ZS3 has been that the ZST is great for acoustic music, like the type you might find on a Focal sampler CD, etc.  The ZS3 is better for pop, hip-hop, general listening.  The ZST has more sizzle and clarity, while the ZS3 is far less fatiguing.


----------



## zackdeth

gobin said:


> KZ ZS3 should be your pick.
> 
> None of my other IEMs has better fit and isolation than it.


 
  @gobin

 But I heard people sayinf the fit for ZS3 is bad.hahaha


----------



## gobin

zackdeth said:


> @gobin
> 
> But I heard people sayinf the fit for ZS3 is bad.hahaha


 
 see, must like SQ, people's ear shape is another tricky business....
  
 To me, they fit perfectly. Though I have to add, that it gets quite uncomfortable over long hour usage. But for 1-2 hours daily commute, they're golden.
  
 If you are still skeptical about its shape, your safest bet is small housing IEM,


----------



## khighly

misschristie said:


> MY ZS3 and ZST came in from Gearbest. I'm digging the ZS3, but the ZST sounds off. The mids have absolutely no body to them, the midbass too though there is a good amount of subbass. Highs were rough and not quite piercing, but far brighter than what I would have preferred.


 
 I've been listening to my Tennmak Pro's for about a week now, and I recently went back to my ZST's. They sound awful. I'll give the ZST's about 2-3 days of regular use and they'll be back to my favorite headphone. I'd suggest giving them about a week. They really are excellent.

 Your brain plays a lot of tricks and I'm beginning to think most of these IEM's eventually end up sounding almost exactly the same with enough time sitting in your ears while music plays. I've come to a conclusion that burn-in is a mental effect, rather than a physical change inside the actual IEM's.


----------



## khighly

tmk2 said:


> After looking at this thread for the past two weeks, and after stumbling onto a Reddit thread about the world of chi-fi, I'm stuck in between ZST and the ZS3. I'm currently looking on and will be ordering off GearBest, and I'm gonna be using the stock cable for a month or two before buying a silver cable. [I think] I know the differences between the two and have been leaning towards the ZST's because they seem to be newer, they come with the better tips, and they have better clarity/high+mids.
> But before I purchase them I thought I'd ask the thread first for help.
> 
> P.S. I mostly listen to Eric Prydz/House/EDM and podcasts, but I do like to listen to Childish Gambino and 70's rock from time to time.


 
 ATE if you want to go with KZ, possibly the ZS3 though I still don't have a pair. Stay away from the ATR's and ZST's for EDM/House.

 Tennmak Piano would be my legitimate suggestion for EDM and the few examples.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> Your brain plays a lot of tricks and I'm beginning to think most of these IEM's eventually end up sounding almost exactly the same with enough time sitting in your ears while music plays. I've come to a conclusion that burn-in is a mental effect, rather than a physical change inside the actual IEM's.


 
 Does that mean we don't need to waste our money and buy really expensive TOTL headphones?


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> I've been listening to my Tennmak Pro's for about a week now, and I recently went back to my ZST's. They sound awful. I'll give the ZST's about 2-3 days of regular use and they'll be back to my favorite headphone. I'd suggest giving them about a week. They really are excellent.
> 
> Your brain plays a lot of tricks and I'm beginning to think most of these IEM's eventually end up sounding almost exactly the same with enough time sitting in your ears while music plays. I've come to a conclusion that burn-in is a mental effect, rather than a physical change inside the actual IEM's.


 
  
 Just because brain burn-in is real doesn't automatically mean physical burn-in isn't.  The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
 Physical burn-in for DDs does happen, while BAs are too small to notice so generally there's no need to burn in pure BA IEMs.  Indeed Shure has come out and said there's no burn-in for their IEMs (all BAs).
  
 Some people are better able to hear minute differences in sounds than others.  Likewise some people can smell minute differences better, or taste minute differences better than other people.  If most IEMs sound the same to you after 2-3 days, great, you can save a fortune! But I would think most people on head-fi have better critical listening abilities than that.


----------



## Ruben123

ricemanhk said:


> Just because brain burn-in is real doesn't automatically mean physical burn-in isn't.  The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
> Physical burn-in for DDs does happen, while BAs are too small to notice so generally there's no need to burn in pure BA IEMs.  Indeed Shure has come out and said there's no burn-in for their IEMs (all BAs).
> 
> Some people are better able to hear minute differences in sounds than others.  Likewise some people can smell minute differences better, or taste minute differences better than other people.  If most IEMs sound the same to you after 2-3 days, great, you can save a fortune! But I would think most people on head-fi have better critical listening abilities than that.



Better ears or better imagination? No test has concluded burn in really exists, by the way, ever tried to sell $5 wine in a $80 bottle? Imagination is a strong thing.


----------



## kokakolia

zackdeth said:


> Anyone can recommend the best KZ IEM??
> 
> Best with fit,isolation and good for those who likes heavy bass (Not EDM kind of heavy)


 
 Fit is a subjective thing. Some people prefer the over-ear style, others like me prefer traditional earbuds that you can just jam into your ear canal.
  
 - The ED7s are super light and you can just jam them into your ears like any earbud, and forget them. 
 - The ED9s have a similar design, but are made of heavy metal. So they give the impression that they're going to slide out at any time. It's kinda annoying. 
 - Sound isolation on the ED7s/ED9s is kinda poor. That's probably because they have holes at the back of the casing (for better sound quality).
  
 The ED7s seem to lack bass at first, but your brain adjusts over time. The bass is definitely there and it's punchy without sounding muddy. The highs and mids are just perfect IMO. Nothing is exaggerated. The ED9s are just boomy with exaggerated, shrill treble. Yeah, they have tons of detail and fun bass. But they're super fatiguing and don't sound natural on slower rock/folk music.  
  
 If you're looking for over-ear style KZs with bass, well the ZS3s look like an attractive option. I don't own them because I prefer classic earbuds. 
  
 ...with all things considered are you dead set on getting KZ earphones?
  
 Because the $50 Marshall Mode is just perfect for you.


----------



## ahmadairfan

Hello, been lurking here like forever.
 I own modded ED9 (brass filled with low porosity foam and sealed vents).
 I'm looking for KZ's with over-ear design and doesn't have any fit-issues, for sports primarily.
 I was looking these models: ATR, ZS3, and QKZ W1 Pro.
 What do you guys think I should get? Sound quality or EQ doesn't matter much, comfort and isolation are the ones I prioritized.
  
 EDIT: and durability/build quality of course.


----------



## zozito

Subscribed!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ZS3 over ATR when it comes to fit for sure.  At least for me.  ATR is like a square chunk of plastic that happens to fit within your ear.  The ZS3 on the other hand is almost as if the shell was formed to my ear.


----------



## Mus1c

B





sometechnoob said:


> ZS3 over ATR when it comes to fit for sure.  At least for me.  ATR is like a square chunk of plastic that happens to fit within your ear.  The ZS3 on the other hand is almost as if the shell was formed to my ear.


But the atr sound superb for the price.


----------



## ahmadairfan

Ok, looks like it's just between ZS3 and QKZ W1 Pro now.
 Local store's upcomings including silver cable upgrade for ZS3. Worth it?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

If you can't stand the "memory wire" (basically a flexible piece of metal heatshrinked to the cable), then probably shoot for it.  Although I personally have a tough time spending the same amount for the silver cable as the IEM itself.


----------



## 1clearhead

mus1c said:


> B
> *But the atr sound superb for the price.*


 
  
 +1...Yup! I second that!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mus1c said:


> B
> But the atr sound superb for the price.


 
 Are you saying they sound better than the ZS3?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Having both, I would take the ZS3 over the ATR any day of the week.  Better clarity, better midrange.


----------



## Vidal

My view on ZS3 vs ATR.
  
 ATR is more mid forward, has better soundstage and slightly better clarity vs the ZS3, although nothing groundbreaking. It's a very competent earphone overall regardless of the price.
  
 The ZS3 is better for bass impact especially sub-bass, isolation is excellent and the ZS3 will cope with poor quality recordings without losing musicality.
  
 ATR is a better all-rounder but the ZS3 has the edge for bass driven genres.


----------



## Mus1c

Hey guys how durable is ve monk iem in term of built quality?


----------



## crabdog

ahmadairfan said:


> Ok, looks like it's just between ZS3 and QKZ W1 Pro now.
> Local store's upcomings including silver cable upgrade for ZS3. Worth it?


 
 I have the ATR and W1 Pro. Both great value for the price. The ATR fits my ears really well and is actually one of the top in my inventory for noise isolation. The cable on the W1 Pro is ridiculously good for a sub $10 iem (similar to LZ A2S/A4 cable). From memory I'd say the ATR has a slightly better sound but to be honest I haven't listened to my W1 Pro for a long time.


----------



## flamesofarctica

mus1c said:


> Hey guys how durable is ve monk iem in term of built quality?




With it being an earbud not an IEM, you might be best posting that question on one of the 2 big earbuds threads, or here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/783669/venture-electronics-ve-monk-monk-plus-a-5-earbud-that-taking-the-world-by-storm


----------



## zato23

mus1c said:


> KZ ATR TRASH cuz it sell below kz ate and doesn't upgrade the sound its just plain cheap iem with nothing to be impress on.


 
  
  


mus1c said:


> Im hate my atr all this time it sound bad after hearing from aukey ep-b4 (blutooth earphones) it has more forward sound than this thing and alot of bass, it worthless thing that I've bought,i need recommendations guys.


 
  
  


mus1c said:


> But the atr sound superb for the price.


----------



## Mus1c

zato23 said:


>


thats from old post i've been change my mind,i like the kz atr right now


----------



## zabunny94

mus1c said:


> Hey guys how durable is ve monk iem in term of built quality?




I can say that the build quality is very good despite its not made of metal.

The housing is probably the weakest aspect of it, since its using much recycled design of senn mx500 housing. And tue cable is probably the best part of it, much better and thicker than any kz cable since its not springy feel really sturdy.

It's worth to mention that you shouldn't really expect much from it, well from the monk+ anyway. Since the original monk was awesome but the monk+ kinda mediocre in my opinion


----------



## Yesin

khighly said:


> Even if you're treble sensitive, use them for a few days on a lower volume than you'd normally listen to and your brain will auto-EQ for you. ZST Colorful is a solid choice though. I would recommend the ATE as well. ATE is more neutral and warm, but doesn't have the soundstage and pure clarity of the ZST colorfuls.


 
 Some on this thread say that the ZST and the ZST colorfuls are the same but with different housing; like this guy http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/16215#post_13279769 and this guy http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/16215#post_13279769
  
 I want to buy a ZST pair but now I'm not sure whether to get the colorfuls or the regular ones.??


----------



## Griffith

yesin said:


> Some on this thread say that the ZST and the ZST colorfuls are the same but with different housing; like this guy http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/16215#post_13279769 and this guy http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/16215#post_13279769
> 
> I want to buy a ZST pair but now I'm not sure whether to get the colorfuls or the regular ones.??


 
  
 Hi, I'm one of those guys. They are both almost completely identical sounding. I noticed a small difference between them on the first days but that could have been attributed to the lack of burn-in of the newer model since then, I have been unable to tell the difference between them.
  
 You will get a bigger difference between the ZST if you buy the optional silver cable though be warned that that difference is also a very mild one. It slightly tones down the higher frequencies of the earphone making them sound ever so slightly less strident and more comfortable to listen for longer periods of time.


----------



## Griffith

zato23 said:


>


 
  
 The KZ ATR is basically like a budget version of the KZ ZS3. A typical V-shaped earphone with nice bass, decent clarity and excellent value, probably the best value out of KZ's lineup but I wouldn't pick it over the ZS3, the ZST, the ED9 or the ATE. They are decent in their own right and if you can't afford the other models it's worth a purchase but when the price difference is so small, I'd recommend saving a bit more for any of the other models if you can.


----------



## Yesin

griffith said:


> Hi, I'm one of those guys. They are both almost completely identical sounding. I noticed a small difference between them on the first days but that could have been attributed to the lack of burn-in of the newer model since then, I have been unable to tell the difference between them.
> 
> You will get a bigger difference between the ZST if you buy the optional silver cable though be warned that that difference is also a very mild one. It slightly tones down the higher frequencies of the earphone making them sound ever so slightly less strident and more comfortable to listen for longer periods of time.


 
 That's good to know because I like the housing of the regular ones. Have the detachable cables been reliable?


----------



## Griffith

yesin said:


> That's good to know because I like the housing of the regular ones. Have the detachable cables been reliable?


 
  
 I don't know because ever since I received the silver cable I've been using it instead.


----------



## Yesin

Hey all,
  
 I'm upgrading from my Xiaomi Piston 3s. I'm torn between getting the KZ ZST and the Xiaomi In-Ear Headphones Pro HD.
  
 Which might suit me better? I prefer tight detailed bass, rich detailed mids, clear highs and a wide sound stage. Which of the 2 delivers best on these traits?


----------



## Keller1

I would advise against silver KZ cables.
 Personally i find there to be no difference over the regular wire, but that's neither here nor there, maybe my hearing's bad, maybe it needs burnin.I wouldn't rely on cables to change the sound of the headphones.
  
 The main issue with it is that the jack doesn't work with some devices and it hasnt worked on a single samsung phone i've tried it with. Meaning i cant use it with my phone and can barely use it with on which it disengages at the slightest tug.
  
 I'm bummed about it because it looks and feels much better than the regular cable.


----------



## Griffith

yesin said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm upgrading from my Xiaomi Piston 3s. I'm torn between getting the KZ ZST and the Xiaomi In-Ear Headphones Pro HD.
> 
> Which might suit me better? I prefer tight detailed bass, rich detailed mids, clear highs and a wide sound stage. Which of the 2 delivers best on these traits?


 
  
 Neither. I recommend the ZS3 instead.
  
 To elaborate on why, the ZST and Xiaomi earphones do have some good characteristics but tight bass is not one of them. The highs are very clear on the ZST, up to a point where they are strident or uncomfortable for some people and although I'm not very sensitive to high frequencies they can get uncomfortable after long hearing sessions. The Xiaomi Pro, while I haven't listened to them myself I have the previous Hybrid model and it seems that the Pro model only addressed some of its shortcomings and even got some new ones, which it shares with the ZST in the form of very strident or harsh high frequencies.
  
 The ZST is a W shaped earphones and it is very lively and forward sounding. Vocals sound incredible on them, particularly female. The Xiaomi seems to share the harsh high frequencies but its frequency response is V shaped and it has most of the benefits and short-comings that come with that.
  
 The ZS3 while being a V-shaped earphone has a much more balanced presentation, it has a warm and comforting signature that doesn't skip on details and is much more comfortable and better suited for more genres of music.
  
 You can get either a very strident and lively, but tiresome, ZST, a very strident V-shaped Xiaomi Pro with meh soundstage. The ZS3 that is a very solid, warm-sounding bassy, but not bloated, comfortable IEM.


----------



## Griffith

keller1 said:


> I would advise against silver KZ cables.
> Personally i find there to be no difference over the regular wire, but that's neither here nor there, maybe my hearing's bad, maybe it needs burnin.I wouldn't rely on cables to change the sound of the headphones.
> 
> The main issue with it is that the jack doesn't work with some devices and it hasnt worked on a single samsung phone i've tried it with. Meaning i cant use it with my phone and can barely use it with on which it disengages at the slightest tug.
> ...


 
  
 Like I said, the sound difference is very small, I wasn't trying to mislead anyone but there is a distinct difference between using a ZST with the silver cable and one without. I'm one of the very few people on this thread with two ZSTs and have tested this extensively for multiple days, but like I said, the difference is very very small. The silver cables are of higher quality than the stock cables, they are more comfortable to use and they very slightly tone down the harshness of the higher frequencies, that's all.
  
 For the comfort upgrade and the slightly toning down of their harshness they are worth their price for me. That may not be the case for others but I don't think they should be either entirely dismissed or exaggeratedly complimented.


----------



## Keller1

Yeah, i wasnt saying that you were misleading people. I would have loved to be able to use the ZST with the silver cable as i would with the regular one just because its' built nicer and feels more premium if you would but it turns out it has a few problems, which is mostly what i want to warn people of, and i havent seen anyone post about them


----------



## khighly

I believe someone here did the math to show what effect the impedance of the silver cable had on the sound.
  
 It came out to something like 0.0025dB change which will not register to the human brain at all.


----------



## Griffith

khighly said:


> I believe someone here did the math to show what effect the impedance of the silver cable had on the sound.
> 
> It came out to something like 0.0025dB change which will not register to the human brain at all.


 
  
 To my ears, I can register a very small difference but only at the highest frequencies. I didn't do a very scientific test but when I adjusted Foobar's EQ by a "tick" (I don't know how many DBs a tick corresponds to) they sounded identical.
  
 I did as much as I could on my behalf to test the two cables with two ZSTs short of measuring them because I don't own a device that can do that. Unless someone actually has two pairs of ZSTs and the two cables and test them themselves or measure them I'm not going to discuss the matter further because it's a fruitless discussion of speculation and theory versus the practical effect.
  
 If you or anyone else has two ZST and the two cables and want to compare different tests or experiences I'd be more than glad to add my own experience and results to that discussion. If not, I don't care to discuss anything about it.


----------



## trumpethead

kokakolia said:


> Fit is a subjective thing. Some people prefer the over-ear style, others like me prefer traditional earbuds that you can just jam into your ear canal.
> 
> - The ED7s are super light and you can just jam them into your ears like any earbud, and forget them.
> - The ED9s have a similar design, but are made of heavy metal. So they give the impression that they're going to slide out at any time. It's kinda annoying.
> ...



With all due respect I do not share your opinins on the ED9. IMO they are an excellent sounding IEM with great bass that does not bleed into the other frequencies.. The mids and highs are clear and detailed and the overall sound signature punches way above their cost. It's curious to me how almost all of your posts seem to bash the ED9. I don't have the ed7 so I can't speak on it but you do quite a bit. Everybody is entitled to express what they hear but it just seems strange to me that this is consistently the topic of your posts...just saying...


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Well I have the ED9 and imho it's a bit too v-shaped for me.  Midrange/vocals are quite recessed and the accentuated treble and bass are fatiguing over long listening sessions.
  
 Switching the nozzles and it becomes pretty airy and tinny.


----------



## metonedeaf

keller1 said:


> I would advise against silver KZ cables.
> Personally i find there to be no difference over the regular wire, but that's neither here nor there, maybe my hearing's bad, maybe it needs burnin.I wouldn't rely on cables to change the sound of the headphones.
> 
> The main issue with it is that the jack doesn't work with some devices and it hasnt worked on a single samsung phone i've tried it with. Meaning i cant use it with my phone and can barely use it with on which it disengages at the slightest tug.
> ...


 
 Agree. I'd figure any"improvement" is probably placebo effect.
 The idea of buying KZ is because it is cheap. Spending more money to dress it up defeat the purpose, I'd rather get better earphone in the first place.


----------



## ricemanhk

ruben123 said:


> Better ears or better imagination? No test has concluded burn in really exists, by the way, ever tried to sell $5 wine in a $80 bottle? Imagination is a strong thing.


 
 Just do a quick search and you'll find a number of scientific tests done on speakers (which are just big dynamic drivers) that show objective and measurable changes with burn-in time.  Of course the fact that these changes are not perceptible to everyone is the reason for the lack of consensus. 
 Anything that moves mechanically will have a run-in period, be it car engines or dynamic drivers. The Honda NSX (old one) was famous for being run-in at the factory already so that owners could drive it hard on day 1.  As for headphones, try wiggling a piece of fresh stiff cardboard and after some time it will soften up. 
  
 For headphones/IEMs that use DDs, there will be a break-in period as it is, in a simple way, just a piece of cardboard/plastic/metal wiggling around producing the sound.  BAs don't have break in because the component pieces are so small that the tests done at the factory to make sure they work is probably enough to break them in already.  
  
 FWIW, I'm one of those who CAN identify 2 wines in a triangle blind test (3 glasses, 2 are the same wine). But that doesn't mean I always prefer the $80 bottle over the $5.  I agree all sorts of factors affect our senses, but in a well controlled setting, many people including myself can pick out wines blind.  The issue is when you start adding in scores then that becomes a problem, because none of this can be totally objective.  Same for headphones.
  
 Anyway. as they always say, YMMV and figuring these things out is one of the FUN parts of this hobby 
  


khighly said:


> I believe someone here did the math to show what effect the impedance of the silver cable had on the sound.
> 
> It came out to something like 0.0025dB change which will not register to the human brain at all.


 
  
 I'm also not a believer in changes in sound due to cables, as long as the cables are "good enough" (meaning the impedance isn't so high that it starts hindering the electrical transmission) but the math the guy did was wrong. The cable impedance should be added to the output impedance, not the driver impedance.  And there are measurable and audible differences when output impedance changes for the same headphone.
  
 That said, I also find the difference between the silver cable and the stock one too small to matter in normal use, and it's not big enough to rule out my own brain bias as I don't have 2 ZSTs to do a quicker A-B blind testing.
  
 Ultimately, as others have said, the silver cable feels more durable and looks nice, so I think that's already worth it for the relatively low cost (compared to other spare/upgrade cables).
 Also the stock and silver jack works fine for me, and works on all my phones/tablets (ipad, xiaomi, nexus, nokia WP), so not sure what the issue is for @Keller1 maybe you got a bad one?  And not working means no sound even?


----------



## fullyZ

I've seen a lot of talking about ZST but non about ZST Pro
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZST-Armature-Dual-Driver-Earphone-Detachable-Cable-In-Ear-Audio-Monitors-Noise-Isolating-HiFi-Music/1358152_32764465461.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.adqCPT
  
 How are they? I just ordered a ZS3 pair but i don't mind ordering a different pair if ZST Pro are good.
 What about ZSR, couldn't find anything


----------



## ricemanhk

fullyz said:


> I've seen a lot of talking about ZST but non about ZST Pro
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZST-Armature-Dual-Driver-Earphone-Detachable-Cable-In-Ear-Audio-Monitors-Noise-Isolating-HiFi-Music/1358152_32764465461.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.adqCPT
> 
> ...


 
  
 Go through the thread.  ZST = ZST Pro, no difference besides the color, at least with the current batches.
 Reviews/differences between ZS3 and ZST also plenty on this thread.
  
 No news on ZSR yet...


----------



## fullyZ

ricemanhk said:


> Go through the thread.  ZST = ZST Pro, no difference besides the color, at least with the current batches.
> Reviews/differences between ZS3 and ZST also plenty on this thread.
> 
> No news on ZSR yet...


 
  
 I see, thank you then.


----------



## Griffith

ricemanhk said:


> I'm also not a believer in changes in sound due to cables, as long as the cables are "good enough" (meaning the impedance isn't so high that it starts hindering the electrical transmission) but the math the guy did was wrong. The cable impedance should be added to the output impedance, not the driver impedance.  And there are measurable and audible differences when output impedance changes for the same headphone.
> 
> That said, I also find the difference between the silver cable and the stock one too small to matter in normal use, and it's not big enough to rule out my own brain bias as I don't have 2 ZSTs to do a quicker A-B blind testing.


 
  
 I shared your sentiment that cables didn't produce many, if any, significant changes to the sound of a headphone because, I assume like you, I read many articles that measured and detailed the benefits of a high-end or highly priced audio cable versus a cheap Monoprice one and the differences were very few. For the most part I still share that sentiment because I've yet to hear the same earphone/headphone with different cables and experience any sound improvement whatsoever and I own a couple of headphones/earphones that I used various cables with and noticed no change with any of them.
  
 With that in mind, I expected the exact same result with the ZST. The difference with the ZST is that I own a couple of them and both sound identical to my ears before the cable replacement and I was expecting it to remain the same after installing the silver cable on one of them but that wasn't the case. I felt a very slight mellowing out of some of the higher frequencies. After testing for some hours I decided to give my ears a rest and considered that I may had just been experiencing a placebo effect. The next day, I decided to try testing them again and I had the ZST with the silver cable on my DAC/AMP and had been listening to it for a while before I tried switching back to the model with the standard cable. When I did so, I felt a slight but distinct increase in the harshness of the higher frequencies. I tested this multiple times, only to meet the same result. I switched the cables between the two models, and once again met the same result.
  
 I wish I could take measurements to prove what I hear and I wish I had someone else with two ZST and the two cables to compare results/experience with but alas I don't. I'm not trying to deceive anyone, I'm not trying to sell the silver cable to anyone, I don't work for ZST nor gain any benefit from promoting their products, I'm just trying to share my experience so others can make informed purchasing decisions. Before I shared my experience with the silver cables some people on this very thread stated that the silver cables improved the sound significantly and were an obligatory purchase. I don't believe that's the case at all but for those who feel the ZST are ever so slightly too harsh the silver cable might be enough to make them more enjoyable without resorting to EQ'ing, or at least that was the case for me.


----------



## ricemanhk

griffith said:


> I shared your sentiment that cables didn't produce many, if any, significant changes to the sound of a headphone because, I assume like you, I read many articles that measured and detailed the benefits of a high-end or highly priced audio cable versus a cheap Monoprice one and the differences were very few. For the most part I still share that sentiment because I've yet to hear the same earphone/headphone with different cables and experience any sound improvement whatsoever and I own a couple of headphones/earphones that I used various cables with and noticed no change with any of them.
> 
> With that in mind, I expected the exact same result with the ZST. The difference with the ZST is that I own a couple of them and both sound identical to my ears before the cable replacement and I was expecting it to remain the same after installing the silver cable on one of them but that wasn't the case. I felt a very slight mellowing out of some of the higher frequencies. After testing for some hours I decided to give my ears a rest and considered that I may had just been experiencing a placebo effect. The next day, I decided to try testing them again and I had the ZST with the silver cable on my DAC/AMP and had been listening to it for a while before I tried switching back to the model with the standard cable. When I did so, I felt a slight but distinct increase in the harshness of the higher frequencies. I tested this multiple times, only to meet the same result. I switched the cables between the two models, and once again met the same result.
> 
> I wish I could take measurements to prove what I hear and I wish I had someone else with two ZST and the two cables to compare results/experience with but alas I don't. I'm not trying to deceive anyone, I'm not trying to sell the silver cable to anyone, I don't work for ZST nor gain any benefit from promoting their products, I'm just trying to share my experience so others can make informed purchasing decisions. Before I shared my experience with the silver cables some people on this very thread stated that the silver cables improved the sound significantly and were an obligatory purchase. I don't believe that's the case at all but for those who feel the ZST are ever so slightly too harsh the silver cable might be enough to make them more enjoyable without resorting to EQ'ing, or at least that was the case for me.


 
  
 Let me try it and report back.  I recently encountered a specific file that I hear somewhat significant sibilance on the stock cable (S sounds for a particularly high toned female speaker), let's see if the silver one tames it out.  For the sake of comparison, I might just put 1 cable on 1 earbud so I can quickly swap between the 2 cables.
  
 The impedance on the silver cable for me was about 0.3-0.4 ohms lower than the stock, which is not that big but not insignificant either, as cables are usually on the 0-2 ohm range.


----------



## Griffith

ricemanhk said:


> Let me try it and report back.  I recently encountered a specific file that I hear somewhat significant sibilance on the stock cable (S sounds for a particularly high toned female speaker), let's see if the silver one tames it out.  For the sake of comparison, I might just put 1 cable on 1 earbud so I can quickly swap between the 2 cables.
> 
> The impedance on the silver cable for me was about 0.3-0.4 ohms lower than the stock, which is not that big but not insignificant either, as cables are usually on the 0-2 ohm range.


 
  
 If you tell me which file you are listening to I could also do the same from my end. Thank you for taking the time to do this, I hope that together we can reach a consensus.


----------



## ahmadairfan

Try the mod: close the vent around the neck on brass filters, and put some low-porosity foam in it. Sounds absoulutely stunning!


----------



## Keller1

Got ED9 ATE and ATR in the mail.
  
 I really like what they've done with the ED9. Cable is more solid than regular KZ cables.
 Earphones are quite heavy. The sound sig is nice. Like a ZST with less clarity and more pronounced bass.

 Edit : The brightness kills it on some tracks.


----------



## kokakolia

keller1 said:


> Got ED9 ATE and ATR in the mail.
> 
> I really like what they've done with the ED9. Cable is more solid than regular KZ cables.
> Earphones are quite heavy. The sound sig is nice. Like a ZST with less clarity and more pronounced bass.
> ...




I hate to say this, but you can get used to the exaggerated brightness of the ED9s. Just don't listen to bands with abrasive guitars like Jesus & Mary Chain, Sonic Youth or Mac DeMarco. You'll probably go deaf. But for electronic/dance music the ED9s are fun. 

So...they have a purpose.


----------



## Yesin

griffith said:


> Neither. I recommend the ZS3 instead.
> 
> To elaborate on why, the ZST and Xiaomi earphones do have some good characteristics but tight bass is not one of them. The highs are very clear on the ZST, up to a point where they are strident or uncomfortable for some people and although I'm not very sensitive to high frequencies they can get uncomfortable after long hearing sessions. The Xiaomi Pro, while I haven't listened to them myself I have the previous Hybrid model and it seems that the Pro model only addressed some of its shortcomings and even got some new ones, which it shares with the ZST in the form of very strident or harsh high frequencies.
> 
> ...


 
 I did see a few reviews online mentioning that the ZS3 is better for more genres as well and was initially considering it. I thought the ZST would be an improvement over the ZS3 since it was newer but guess it's more artificial sounding than the older ZS3s.
  
 Yeah, I do love listening to a fair share of vocal music. The ZS3 delivers better mids than the Piston 3s right Griffith? Seems like ZS3 may be the one to go for after all.


----------



## Jeroen Pasman

its been a while since i posted but here is n update .. 
  i have tested several KZ sets like the ZST . ZS-1 and ATR .. I use my PC and S7 Edge as a source all with flac files. added a Fiio A3 on the phone .. Love that amp but a friend tryed it and bought it right out my hands , so i bought the Fiio Q1 instead. . Now i use the Q1 connected with USB on the phone and on the laptop.. sound is even more clear .. more staging and more power .. all in low gain and NO bass added. 
 bought the silver cable for the ZST .. I listen to Yello / Intwine / Muse but also Gearge michael ore diane krall .. i found the ZS-1 an allrounder but with a build in subwoofer .. witch is actually is .. to much low tones for me .. the ATR is a very nice allrounder for my but i do not like the comfort of it .. the ZST is by far my 1th choice .. i do not like the original cord .. they just do not fall arround my ears ... the silver solve this all .. 
 to go short .. a 100 dollar HeadFi solution is a FiiO Q1 with the KZ  ZST and a set of silver cable.. i dont think you cant get more value for the money . i am still impressed , time after time .. 
  
 considering i work in a AV company, i have spread the virus ... 7 guys listening to the SZT now .. 2 of them have the FiioQ1 .. seems to be that thay found their low butget HeadFi update as well.
  
  
 Jeroen


----------



## Griffith

yesin said:


> I did see a few reviews online mentioning that the ZS3 is better for more genres as well and was initially considering it. I thought the ZST would be an improvement over the ZS3 since it was newer but guess it's more artificial sounding than the older ZS3s.
> 
> Yeah, I do love listening to a fair share of vocal music. The ZS3 delivers better mids than the Piston 3s right Griffith? Seems like ZS3 may be the one to go for after all.


 
  
 Both have good midrange, but the ZS3 is easier to recommend without understanding what kind of music you like listening to. On paper the ZST is the superior model but in practice it is an acquired taste and most ZST owners either completely love the ZST or find it unbearable whereas you'll have a much harder time finding someone who doesn't appreciate the ZS3.


----------



## Keller1

kokakolia said:


> I hate to say this, but you can get used to the exaggerated brightness of the ED9s. Just don't listen to bands with abrasive guitars like Jesus & Mary Chain, Sonic Youth or Mac DeMarco. You'll probably go deaf. But for electronic/dance music the ED9s are fun.
> 
> So...they have a purpose.


 

 To be fair almost everything works great for electronic. Well... maybe not the ZST, but even they're great most of the time.


----------



## AplexApple

So I recently got my ZSTs, these things are pretty good for their price. The only thing I have a problem with is the cable connection. They seem to disconnect very easily. I nearly lost them the other day in school because it disconnected when i put them in my pocket. 
 Are these suppose to disconnect so easily?


----------



## ricemanhk

aplexapple said:


> So I recently got my ZSTs, these things are pretty good for their price. The only thing I have a problem with is the cable connection. They seem to disconnect very easily. I nearly lost them the other day in school because it disconnected when i put them in my pocket.
> Are these suppose to disconnect so easily?


 
  
 Did you insert the pins fully into the earbud?  Mine are super tight, and actually pretty dang hard to unplug. 
 Pictures of your earbud and wire housing would be helpful to figure out what's wrong.


----------



## AplexApple

ricemanhk said:


> Did you insert the pins fully into the earbud?  Mine are super tight, and actually pretty dang hard to unplug.
> Pictures of your earbud and wire housing would be helpful to figure out what's wrong.


 
  
 I believe I have then fully inserted. They don't click though, they just go in softly. 
 Hell, I think I have a faulty pair or something cause even the grill came out, I had to pop it back in place...
  

  

  
  

  
 Sorry if you can't see very clearly. I couldn't get a super close focus without it being blurry.


----------



## ricemanhk

aplexapple said:


> I believe I have then fully inserted. They don't click though, they just go in softly.
> Hell, I think I have a faulty pair or something cause even the grill came out, I had to pop it back in place...
> 
> 
> ...


 
 As I suspected, you don't have them fully inserted.  In your first pic, you see the 2 bumps (vertical in your picture), and to the left of the 2 bumps do you see a faint line that's slightly curved? That should actually line up flush with the earbud (the curve matches the earbud exactly).
  
 What you've done here is only inserted the pins, but not onto the plug (the red part inside the earbud in your last picture). Most of the friction comes from the wire housing with the red "plug" inside the earbud.  It can take some effort to push it all the way through, that's why I said it's pretty dang hard to swap cables after you get them in.  
  
 As for the grill coming out, some others here also had it, that's poor QC on KZ part.  If you can push it back in then that's fine, maybe can even try a dab of glue to keep them there.


----------



## AplexApple

ricemanhk said:


> As I suspected, you don't have them fully inserted.  In your first pic, you see the 2 bumps (vertical in your picture), and to the left of the 2 bumps do you see a faint line that's slightly curved? That should actually line up flush with the earbud (the curve matches the earbud exactly).
> 
> What you've done here is only inserted the pins, but not onto the plug (the red part inside the earbud in your last picture). Most of the friction comes from the wire housing with the red "plug" inside the earbud.  It can take some effort to push it all the way through, that's why I said it's pretty dang hard to swap cables after you get them in.
> 
> As for the grill coming out, some others here also had it, that's poor QC on KZ part.  If you can push it back in then that's fine, maybe can even try a dab of glue to keep them there.


 
 Oh wow! Haha, I feel stupid. I thought it stopped right at the pins, since it didn't want to push in any farther (and because I was afraid I'd break the pins if i put my pressure on them). Just took the risk though and pushed it in with force and now it's tightly secured. 
 I thought I had a faulty pair or that they were designed like this.
 Thanks for helping me out!


----------



## AplexApple

Now, I have this one little problem. The grill on the right side of the IEM. It popped out while I was switching out the ear tips. I popped it back in place for a bit but that's only a temporary fix. Is there any way I could permanently fix this?


----------



## Brian Coffey

aplexapple said:


> Now, I have this one little problem. The grill on the right side of the IEM. It popped out while I was switching out the ear tips. I popped it back in place for a bit but that's only a temporary fix. Is there any way I could permanently fix this?


 
 A very small drop of super glue worked for me. It can be applied with the tip of a pin if necessary.


----------



## loomisjohnson

griffith said:


> Like I said, the sound difference is very small, I wasn't trying to mislead anyone but there is a distinct difference between using a ZST with the silver cable and one without. I'm one of the very few people on this thread with two ZSTs and have tested this extensively for multiple days, but like I said, the difference is very very small. The silver cables are of higher quality than the stock cables, they are more comfortable to use and they very slightly tone down the harshness of the higher frequencies, that's all.
> 
> For the comfort upgrade and the slightly toning down of their harshness they are worth their price for me. That may not be the case for others but I don't think they should be either entirely dismissed or exaggeratedly complimented.


 

 i also got the silver cable (which i doubt is actually silver), solely because i hate the baubles on the stock cable. i'm something of a cable skeptic, but like griffith i detected an incremental softening at the high end. i also find the volume on the silver cable to be slightly less than on the stock cable (function of impedance?)


----------



## Vishal

Kz has no durability at all.. 
My ed9 broke while staying in the drawer and today afternoon I was listening to the zs3 then I put it in bag 
Take out in the evening and bamm right earpiece has no sound. 
What happened is out of my imagination. 
Not buying kz's anymore.


----------



## zabunny94

vishal said:


> Kz has no durability at all..
> My ed9 broke while staying in the drawer and today afternoon I was listening to the zs3 then I put it in bag
> Take out in the evening and bamm right earpiece has no sound.
> What happened is out of my imagination.
> Not buying kz's anymore.




My ED9 cable was destroyed by my cat. about your case it's not 100% KZ fault though, your drawer humidity can also became a factor for it. And believe it or not, zero audio carbo tenore has that kind of issue where one piece suddenly became silent.


----------



## VShaft

vishal said:


> Kz has no durability at all..
> My ed9 broke while staying in the drawer and today afternoon I was listening to the zs3 then I put it in bag
> Take out in the evening and bamm right earpiece has no sound.
> What happened is out of my imagination.
> Not buying kz's anymore.


 
  
 Was it a case of "I put it in the bag and let it alone" or "I put in the bag and then walked around with it all day, with the IEM tumbling inside it"?
  
 It's not my intention to sound rude, but I know plenty of people who put their earphones in drawers and then pile things on top of them, or toss them in the bag where the earphone gets thrown around all day. You can't blame the earphone for dying out in that scenario.


----------



## Vishal

vshaft said:


> Was it a case of "I put it in the bag and let it alone" or "I put in the bag and then walked around with it all day, with the IEM tumbling inside it"?
> 
> It's not my intention to sound rude, but I know plenty of people who put their earphones in drawers and then pile things on top of them, or toss them in the bag where the earphone gets thrown around all day. You can't blame the earphone for dying out in that scenario.




It was "I put it in bag and let it alone". This I do daily but I don't know what happened today. 
May be a bad day for me but still if you don't know how it happened it makes you frustrated. 
I have hds1, zn1 mini, zs1 and these are seems to be durable but who knows as I use them rarely.


----------



## Vishal

zabunny94 said:


> My ED9 cable was destroyed by my cat. about your case it's not 100% KZ fault though, your drawer humidity can also became a factor for it. And believe it or not, zero audio carbo tenore has that kind of issue where one piece suddenly became silent.




May be humidity is the cause but still I have other earphones also that doesn't suffer from this and are totally dry.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vishal said:


> Kz has no durability at all..
> My ed9 broke while staying in the drawer and today afternoon I was listening to the zs3 then I put it in bag
> Take out in the evening and bamm right earpiece has no sound.
> What happened is out of my imagination.
> Not buying kz's anymore.


 

 I've got 29 unique models of KZ earphones plus dupes of many and have only had a couple failures in the bunch, those happening with old, discontinued models. Not bad for cheapos and better than I've experienced with more established expensive brands. Like everything, they'll last if you treat them well.


----------



## metonedeaf

vishal said:


> May be humidity is the cause but still I have other earphones also that doesn't suffer from this and are totally dry.


 
 I live in a country where humidity is always high particularly in rainy season and none of my earphones/headphones dead because of it. They oxidize, but not dead. I guess you are just unlucky.


----------



## Keller1

b9scrambler said:


> I've got 29 unique models of KZ earphones plus dupes of many and have only had a couple failures in the bunch, those happening with old, discontinued models. Not bad for cheapos and better than I've experienced with more established expensive brands. Like everything, they'll last if you treat them well.


 
 Out of ~12(1xED12, 1xZS3, 2xZST, 1x HDS3, 2xATE, 1xED9, 1xATR, 1xZS1, 1xRX) KZ earphones purchased, 1 has been outright defective, 2 have failed since purchase and 4 have been functional but arrived with issues.
  
 Outright Defective -
 ED12 - Left side doesnt seal, right one does  and sounds different.
  
 Broken postpurchase -
 KZ ATE - Jack gave up the ghost after being used daily for about 2 months. Partly my fault .
 KZ HDS3 - Connection broke @ earphone entry after bieng used irregularly but slept with. Model has weak connection joints.
  
 Functional but with issues:
 KZ ZST - Crackle from one side when creating a seal. Mildly annoying.
 KZ ZS1 - Jack was intermittent after first recieving them. Would cut out randomly. This stopped 30 minutes after owning them, don't know what that was about. Infuriating until it stopped,. Gave the pair away after a month of ownership due to liking the ATE much better.
 KZ ATR - Drivers arent well matched - It just feels super weird listening to anything on these. Either that or they have better instrument positioning than the ZST and I'm just not realizing it.
 KZ ZS3 - Red Earphone grille and some foam fell out the first time i replaced tips. Didnt seem to change sound too much.


 So historically their QC hasnt been that great, atleast not for me.
 On the other hand, defects have been minor and most are still functional.


----------



## Yesin

griffith said:


> Both have good midrange, but the ZS3 is easier to recommend without understanding what kind of music you like listening to. On paper the ZST is the superior model but in practice it is an acquired taste and most ZST owners either completely love the ZST or find it unbearable whereas you'll have a much harder time finding someone who doesn't appreciate the ZS3.


 
 I think I'll be getting the ZS3 as my first KZ hehe. Thanks a bunch Griffith.


----------



## ferisalgue

I just got notified that my ZS3 and ZST are delivered... O.O my first ever KZ, I hope I got the glossy ZS3.


----------



## Griffith

yesin said:


> I think I'll be getting the ZS3 as my first KZ hehe. Thanks a bunch Griffith.


 
  
 You're welcome, happy listening!


----------



## VShaft

b9scrambler said:


> Like everything, they'll last if you treat them well.


 
  
 Well, lucky or unlucky, it boils down to this.
  
 Even if you "toss" them carefully in a drawer, or a bag, you may end up shuffling through that drawer later during the day, or someone else may (if you share the living space), or the bag gets moved here and there... the connectors or a cable joint may bend at just the right angle to lose connection, or the ear-piece gets banged, or squashed, or whatever. I'm sure some of he failures are due to QC issues, but if you want to be really sure and really take care of your IEMs - use a carrying case. Coil the cable neatly and place the IEM in the case.
  
 They retail for as little as a buck a piece on Aliexpress (sometimes even less), and a small investment such as this will ensure your earphone's longevity.


----------



## wgrish7

b9scrambler said:


> I've got 29 unique models of KZ earphones plus dupes of many and have only had a couple failures in the bunch, those happening with old, discontinued models. Not bad for cheapos and better than I've experienced with more established expensive brands. Like everything, they'll last if you treat them well.


 
 Why do you have so many KZ's?


----------



## B9Scrambler

wgrish7 said:


> Why do you have so many KZ's?


 
  
 Simple answer: I like them. Long answer: Links below, lol.
  
*Knowledge Zenith: *Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4


----------



## ferisalgue

One question about the zs3. How to tell which is matte and which is glossy? I want the glossy one but I see mixed pics on listings. Is there a way to tell? Why the 2 versions?


----------



## zackdeth

Hi all,one question

 Does KZ IEMs sound like a cheap normal ear bud headphones ? or they actually does wonders ?


----------



## wgrish7

zackdeth said:


> Hi all,one question
> 
> Does KZ IEMs sound like a cheap normal ear bud headphones ? or they actually does wonders ?


 

 You are about to get opinionated replies


----------



## Brian Coffey

zackdeth said:


> Hi all,one question
> 
> Does KZ IEMs sound like a cheap normal ear bud headphones ? or they actually does wonders ?


 
 KZ earphones sound very good for the price once you figure out which KZ has the sound signature you prefer.


----------



## ricemanhk

OK so I tried my silver vs stock cable using a quick swap with 1 earbud each.  I also then tried it with the same earbud.
 The specific sibilance that I mentioned is still there and I cannot hear any significant differences between the 2 cables. I did this in the office though so my noise environment isn't the best, but the sibilance is still here.
  
 The file I listened to: http://altonbrown.com/brynn-smith-the-alton-brown-podcast/
  
 Around 1:09:30 the lady and Alton both say "commercials" and the S sound at the end will sound sibilant for me, especially in my podcast app on my phone as I use 1.2x speed up, but it's still there on my laptop through that link at normal speed.
  
 In the end though, it's only in rare and specific cases that I hear it, I don't find it to bother me much in music so I'm still happy. Just that in my case the sound quality between the silver and stock cable isn't significant, and I need the mic so I'm using my stock cable even though I prefer the feel of the silver one.


----------



## AplexApple

zackdeth said:


> Hi all,one question
> 
> Does KZ IEMs sound like a cheap normal ear bud headphones ? or they actually does wonders ?


 
 They sound much better than those cheap earbuds you'll find in stores and in amazon when you search "earbuds".


----------



## zabunny94

zackdeth said:


> Hi all,one question
> 
> 
> Does KZ IEMs sound like a cheap normal ear bud headphones ? or they actually does wonders ?




Tricky answer. First of all, this is not an earbud by definition, it is an earphone like earbud, but it belong in a very specific category which is IEM. KZ used to make earbud back in the day, but nowaday they only make IEM's

For the second part, whether KZ sounds really good or not, it's really subjective and relative.

Subjective, since different people like different kind of sound. And the relative, since depending on where you live, the selection of earphone can affect what you perceive as "price to performance ratio".

For me who live in third world country where the average price of earphone(imported from china and not fake of other brand) are around $2 - $10, KZ is just "okay", nothing really great or anything. But when we shift into more narrower category, which is for example dual driver hybrid IEM, there's only one other IEM other than ZST which is mi hybrid, from there you can judge whether its really good or nkt depending the other with durability and price counted among the factor

TL ;DR kz was just "okay"


----------



## trumpethead

aplexapple said:


> So I recently got my ZSTs, these things are pretty good for their price. The only thing I have a problem with is the cable connection. They seem to disconnect very easily. I nearly lost them the other day in school because it disconnected when i put them in my pocket.
> 
> Are these suppose to disconnect so easily?




Don't put then in your pocket, not without a case..They won't disconnect so easily and they will last much longer...jmo


----------



## Keller1

zackdeth said:


> Hi all,one question
> 
> Does KZ IEMs sound like a cheap normal ear bud headphones ? or they actually does wonders ?


 
  
 Depends on if you like them or not. I like my ATE,ATR & ZST better than my AKG K550 , My Stock T50RP, but i think my SR325is has an edge on them in some scenarios.
 But the KZs are more practical and comfy. This is mostly a grado issue though.
  
 All-in-all i probably would say that KZs have some flaws but they are really well tuned and not just for the price. Now they probably wont compete with HD600s or Fidelio X2s but you cant expect them to.


----------



## Mus1c

ferisalgue said:


> One question about the zs3. How to tell which is matte and which is glossy? I want the glossy one but I see mixed pics on listings. Is there a way to tell? Why the 2 versions?


 right now they only sell a new one which is the glossy look but the matt ver is the old not sell anymore.


----------



## ferisalgue

mus1c said:


> right now they only sell a new one which is the glossy look but the matt ver is the old not sell anymore.


 
 I do hope so, haha I hate the look of it. Much rather have the glossy one, I pick them up later today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll see how they compare to my Ocharaku Co-Donguri Shikuzu.
  
 I also ordered the ZST, those are newer right? and are supposed to be brighter? (I prefer a brighter sound)


----------



## Saoshyant

Eh, the matte still looks good, and it's in your ears, so it's not like you'd be looking at it anyways.  I can understand aesthetics of cables more.


----------



## Mus1c

ferisalgue said:


> I do hope so, haha I hate the look of it. Much rather have the glossy one, I pick them up later today   I'll see how they compare to my Ocharaku Co-Donguri Shikuzu.
> 
> I also ordered the ZST, those are newer right? and are supposed to be brighter? (I prefer a brighter sound)


yes the zst is the newer iem and yes they are bright sound.


----------



## ferisalgue

saoshyant said:


> Eh, the matte still looks good, and it's in your ears, so it's not like you'd be looking at it anyways.  I can understand aesthetics of cables more.


 
 I can understand that, but it's all personal preference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hey, is the KZ Silver cable a considerable upgrade? is it on the soft side? or will it be like plastiky wire?


mus1c said:


> yes the zst is the newer iem and yes they are bright sound.


 
 Glad to hear that


----------



## rad7

I love my ZS3s but I feel they are a little bulky to use them when I am in college and when I am trying to sleep with them. Are there any smaller earphones with mic that have a similar sound signature (good bass, less bright/non-fatiguing, etc.) that I can use comfortably even when I sleep and cost <$25? Joyroom JR-E-103 seems to fit the bill, but there is only 1 review that I could find and I am wondering if anyone has experience with them.


----------



## actorlife

Was doing a BI with these when i noticed some things missing. Not liking the sound so far. Are the newer KZ ATE shipping without the 2 gold pieces on the side? Also seems to be in generic black box with purple writing instead of the plastic case. Housing Grills are red cloth. All the pics see its a grey housing grill with holes. No tie either. This the non mic version. Sent the ebay seller a email.


----------



## svil3

rad7 said:


> I love my ZS3s but I feel they are a little bulky to use them when I am in college and when I am trying to sleep with them. Are there any smaller earphones with mic that have a similar sound signature (good bass, less bright/non-fatiguing, etc.) that I can use comfortably even when I sleep and cost <$25? Joyroom JR-E-103 seems to fit the bill, but there is only 1 review that I could find and I am wondering if anyone has experience with them.


 
 hmm maybe the ED9's, they have a somewhat similar signature, but I have to say that I prefer the zs3 in all aspects.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ED9s are infinitely more fatiguing than ZS3s for me


----------



## Podster

b9scrambler said:


> Simple answer: I like them. Long answer: Links below, lol.
> 
> *Knowledge Zenith: *Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4


 

 ROTFLMAO
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As Richard Dawson used to say "Good Answer" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have read through many of these last pages and even though KZ products up to now have been sub $25 iem's (patiently awaiting the ZSR) and for the price (and) like has been said they are tuned well; it has also been said one can get a lot of miles out of their sub $25 iem's with proper care (a good case, many have the small velcro loop to secure coiled cable in the case and consistently recovering your iem's to same after use). If you treat them like they are just cheap iem's then before you know it they are! For me I treat all my headphones the same regardless of what I pay for them, actually that goes for all my gear


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Was doing a BI with these when i noticed some things missing. Not liking the sound so far. Are the newer KZ ATE shipping without the 2 gold pieces on the side? Also seems to be in generic black box with purple writing instead of the plastic case. Housing Grills are red cloth. All the pics see its a grey housing grill with holes. Sent the ebay seller a email.


 do you have a proper seal with the iem?


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

yesin said:


> I think I'll be getting the ZS3 as my first KZ hehe. Thanks a bunch Griffith.


 
 Let me know what you think of them compared to the Piston 3's. I want to upgrade from them too.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ZS3 > Piston 3 for me!


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> do you have a proper seal with the iem?



The seal is ok just wanted to BI for a couple of days to see if i notice any change. Gonna try the Sony tips after the BI. Are yours without the gold pieces, etc.


----------



## MissChristie

Having spent some more time with the ZST, I can say that I really like them. It's really neutral/flat but with just an extra kick of subbasss to make EDM and other bass heavy genres satisfying. I need to spend some additional time with my ZS3 to figure out which of the two I prefer, but I really appreciate the ZST for being just a bit more lively with it's better extended treble accompanied by the aforementioned bass extension.


----------



## zackdeth

I now have 


 Shure se215
 shure se315
 ATH-E40


 I just thought of getting a KZ Zs3 for my collection just to keep in the inventory hahaha.


----------



## rad7

svil3 said:


> hmm maybe the ED9's, they have a somewhat similar signature, but I have to say that I prefer the zs3 in all aspects.


 
 Yes, I like the ZS3's sound signature better than that of ED9's, it's just a personal preference. Also, I am looking for earphones that are smaller than ED9, that can be worn comfortably while sleeping, but with a similar sound signature as the ZS3s. I am very treble sensitive; I also have the ZSTs, which I love, but I can't listen to them for extended periods of time as I find them to be too bright.


----------



## walfredo

Hi Folks,
  
 I got what is seems to be the KZ ATES ATE ATR HD9 following a recommendation of the audiophiliac.  I am quite impressed.  I usually have comfort issues with IEM, but I found this one better on that.  And the sound is quite good.
  
 Is https://kziems.aliexpress.com/store/1358152 a good source for the brand?  Do they have a web site?
  
 Reading the thread... but it is a long one. 
  
 Thanks,
 Walfredo


----------



## steven7

Hi I am new to this brand and I was wondering what is its best IEM offering at ~25USD? ATE? ZS3? ZST?


----------



## rad7

walfredo said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I got what is seems to be the KZ ATES ATE ATR HD9 following a recommendation of the audiophiliac.  I am quite impressed.  I usually have comfort issues with IEM, but I found this one better on that.  And the sound is quite good.
> 
> ...


 
 You can try Gear Best too. I got my ZS3s from Gear Best. One big advantage with Gear Best is that you can pay through PayPal. You can't do that on Ali Express.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Gearbest also tends to be the cheapest source as well.


----------



## VShaft

steven7 said:


> Hi I am new to this brand and I was wondering what is its best IEM offering at ~25USD? ATE? ZS3? ZST?


 

 No such thing. All KZ IEMs are pretty well below $25 USD. The current flagship models - ZST and ZS3 - can be had at about $10 - 20 depending on the seller. ATE and ATR can be had as low as $7-8 and $4-5 respectively.
  
 Some older and/or discontinued models can cost up to $25. There's the *KZ IE80* (a copycat in design terms of the Sennheiser IE80, with an additional function of adjustable bass), or the dual-driver *DT5* ($25 - 30). There are probably some even older models, the KZ veterans will have to tell you about them, though.


----------



## Shawn71

vshaft said:


> No such thing. All KZ IEMs are pretty well below $25 USD. The current flagship models - ZST and ZS3 - can be had at about $10 - 20 depending on the seller. ATE/ATR can be had as low as $4-5.
> 
> Some older and/or discontinued models can cost up to $25. There's the *KZ IE80* (a copycat in design terms of the Sennheiser IE80, with an additional function of adjustable bass), or the dual-driver *DT5* ($25 - 30). There are probably some even older models, the KZ veterans will have to tell you about them, though.




Well,ATEs are always $7.xx and upward....but yeah, adding another $2/3 to his $25 budget wld bring him all those 3 iems he mentioned.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> The seal is ok just wanted to BI for a couple of days to see if i notice any change. Gonna try the Sony tips after the BI. Are yours without the gold pieces, etc.


yes.let them burn in for awhile and than take a listen if the sound fix.


----------



## Mus1c

walfredo said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I got what is seems to be the KZ ATES ATE ATR HD9 following a recommendation of the audiophiliac.  I am quite impressed.  I usually have comfort issues with IEM, but I found this one better on that.  And the sound is quite good.
> 
> ...


yes thats the official kz store iem.


----------



## Mus1c

steven7 said:


> Hi I am new to this brand and I was wondering what is its best IEM offering at ~25USD? ATE? ZS3? ZST?


 can you give a suggestion about the sound signature you're prefer?


----------



## VShaft

shawn71 said:


> Well,ATEs are always $7.xx and upward....but yeah, adding another $2/3 to his $25 budget wld bring him all those 3 iems he mentioned.


 

 Yeah, good catch on the ATE price, I was having in mind only the ATR. Edited my post accordingly.
  
 But damn, thinking about it, what a leap it will be for KZ's flagship to jump from the current $15-20 value to $90 when the ZSR comes


----------



## Yesin

guywholikeshifi said:


> Let me know what you think of them compared to the Piston 3's. I want to upgrade from them too.


 
 Sure thing


----------



## actorlife

Here is a pic of the housing of the KZ ATE anyone have the same one? http://2.1m.yt/xqEx_7m.jpg
http://1.1m.yt/bVRgI0M.jpg


----------



## Drakis

actorlife said:


> Here is a pic of the housing of the KZ ATE anyone have the same one? http://2.1m.yt/xqEx_7m.jpg
> http://1.1m.yt/bVRgI0M.jpg


 
  
 That's the KZ ATE-S if i'm not wrong.


----------



## actorlife

drakis said:


> That's the KZ ATE-S if i'm not wrong.



It is the ate just want to know if the grill is different. From the pics i have seen its grey metallic grill.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Here is a pic of the housing of the KZ ATE anyone have the same one? http://2.1m.yt/xqEx_7m.jpg
> http://1.1m.yt/bVRgI0M.jpg


that not kz ate but kz ates its little bassy heavy headphone. The kz ate housing should be transparent smoke like looking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you want to buy another iem i suggested kz atr the latest AT line and have better sound than ate.


----------



## Drakis

actorlife said:


> It is the ate just want to know if the grill is different. From the pics i have seen its grey metallic grill.


 

 That's the ATE-S. It has memory wire, and the red thing and red grill.
 KZ ATE doesn't have memory wire, and has metal grill.


----------



## actorlife

drakis said:


> That's the ATE-S. It has memory wire, and the red thing and red grill.
> KZ ATE doesn't have memory wire, and has metal grill.



Yes thats what Im saying unless they changed it which i doubt. I think i got a fake. Here is the ate-s:
http://4.1m.yt/IpeH-jq.jpg


----------



## Drakis

actorlife said:


> Yea thats what Im saying unless they changed it which i doubt. I think i got a fake. Here is the ate-s:
> http://4.1m.yt/IpeH-jq.jpg


 

 Maybe you got an old batch. Maybe there's anyone here who bought an ATES recently, and can confirm.


----------



## actorlife

Side view of mine: http://2.1m.yt/D6qz4mV.jpg


----------



## Drakis

actorlife said:


> Side view of mine: http://2.1m.yt/D6qz4mV.jpg


 
  
 I say it's an ATES, but with the red grill (like the KZ ZS3).
 New or old, i don't know.


----------



## actorlife

ZS3 have red grills hmmm. Anyone take off the red grills to to see if the treble is better?


----------



## VShaft

It's not a fake. Even though it doesn't say so explicitly on the shell that _*is*_ the ATE-S. I have it.
  
 Mind you that in the latest (5th gen?) ATE iteration the ATE and ATE-S appear identical, except for the "memory wire" thing. This leads me to believe they sound the same, too.


----------



## VeraGene

Can someone recommend me a good IEM with strong bass for electronic music?
  
 Currently using Audio technical CKM500IS and I am not sure if KZ is worth or considered as an upgrade.
  
 PS: I'm just a amateur in Audio stuff


----------



## toddy0191

veragene said:


> Can someone recommend me a good IEM with strong bass for electronic music?
> 
> Currently using Audio technical CKM500IS and I am not sure if KZ is worth or considered as an upgrade.
> 
> PS: I'm just a amateur in Audio stuff




ZS3 is great for EDM.

You might want to ask on here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/820747/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-portable-headphones-and-iems/6600_100#post_13328489

You'll get more suggestions than just KZ there and there are A LOT of great earphones that would match your requirements.


----------



## walfredo

Thanks, folks!  I got the ZS3 and ED9 via gearbest.
  
 Special kudos to the contraptionist for the nicely written and informative Knowledge Zenith: A great place to begin your audiophile journey.  Much appreciated


----------



## Mus1c

veragene said:


> Can someone recommend me a good IEM with strong bass for electronic music?
> 
> Currently using Audio technical CKM500IS and I am not sure if KZ is worth or considered as an upgrade.
> 
> PS: I'm just a amateur in Audio stuff


Kz zs1,Ate-s, zs2, zs3 thats bass heavy iem, you might take look of it. If you want me to suggest for you i will take the zs1 cuz the bass is subwoofer type bass.


----------



## xcd125

Hey folks I recently lost my KZ ZS3  and i am looking to buy another headphone Is tennmak pro better than KZ zs3?


----------



## crabdog

xcd125 said:


> Hey folks I recently lost my KZ ZS3  and i am looking to buy another headphone Is tennmak pro better than KZ zs3?


 
 Better is a subjective term and it will come down to personal preference.  I like the Pro but find it has too much mid-bass and sounds a little bloated. I haven't heard the ZS3 so can't comment on that.


----------



## Griffith

veragene said:


> Can someone recommend me a good IEM with strong bass for electronic music?
> 
> Currently using Audio technical CKM500IS and I am not sure if KZ is worth or considered as an upgrade.
> 
> PS: I'm just a amateur in Audio stuff


 
  
 The bass heavy or focused KZ earphones I recommend are:
  

KZ ZS3 - this is one of the more balanced KZ earphones in terms of quality
KZ ED9 - with the filter that comes on them by default these sound similar to the ZS3 in terms of signature but have better soundstage. They are also considerably smaller than the ZS3 which, depending on your ears, might be a more comfortable experience
KZ ZS1 - this creates the a very similar effect that surround speakers make inside your ears. It feels like you are inside the studio that is recording whatever it is you're listening to. A very unique and fun sounding earphone.
  
 If you are not sensitive to high frequency response another KZ earphone which is excellent and very fun to listen to is the KZ ZST. They are very lively and fun sounding but can be a bit fatiguing for long sessions or if you are sensible to high frequencies because of how emphasised they are. The optional silver cable that you can purchase for the ZST a very slight atenuation of these high frequencies and will give you a bit more comfort/quality-of-life but the difference is very very very slight.
  
 There is also an optional cable, similar to the ZST's available for the ZS3 but I was not able to discern any differences because, unlike the ZST, I only have one ZS3 and can't quickly switch back and forth between the two cables because they take a while to fit and remove.


----------



## loomisjohnson

xcd125 said:


> Hey folks I recently lost my KZ ZS3  and i am looking to buy another headphone Is tennmak pro better than KZ zs3?


 

 the tennmak pro sounds more "refined" in the sense of more accurately reproducing the music, and has more highend detail than the kz3, but like crabdog i think it's a bit too midbassy and i personally prefer the zs3. i like the tennmak dulcimer even more.


----------



## gobin

xcd125 said:


> Hey folks I recently lost my KZ ZS3  and i am looking to buy another headphone Is tennmak pro better than KZ zs3?



I own both so I can give you my "subjective" view on this. While the bass on Pro is more prominent, I don't think it worth twice the price as it's only a marginal step up from the KZ ZS3. Plus, both have somewhat similar dark and warm sound signature. 

However, cable and fit is way better on the Pro. Though you have to be aware of the QC issue with the Pro's MMCX connectors.


----------



## Mus1c

xcd125 said:


> Hey folks I recently lost my KZ ZS3  and i am looking to buy another headphone Is tennmak pro better than KZ zs3?


or pick kz atr its more cheap and sound similar than kzs3 but more balanced and neutral sound.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> ZS3 have red grills hmmm. Anyone take off the red grills to to see if the treble is better?



Took them off better and clearer KZ ATE. Compared to the Monoprice(still great for the price) i like these bit more. For Bassheads I'd recommended the Sony Hybrids. Im good with the med KZ. Clip+ with Artist Genevieve Bellemare, Grace Weber and Barbra Lica in 320 mp3. BI did these good. Such a good deal for 10 bucks or less.


----------



## ferisalgue

One question, how good is the KZ Silver cable?


----------



## actorlife

ferisalgue said:


> One question, how good is the KZ Silver cable?



No notice in Sq according to most.


----------



## ferisalgue

actorlife said:


> No notice in Sq according to most.


 
 am a non believer in cables if we talk about SQ. I mean about if the cable is soft, tougher, and visually


----------



## Mus1c

ferisalgue said:


> am a non believer in cables if we talk about SQ. I mean about if the cable is soft, tougher, and visually


it's a bit more durable than stock kz cable.


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

misschristie said:


> Having spent some more time with the ZST, I can say that I really like them. It's really neutral/flat but with just an extra kick of subbasss to make EDM and other bass heavy genres satisfying. I need to spend some additional time with my ZS3 to figure out which of the two I prefer, but I really appreciate the ZST for being just a bit more lively with it's better extended treble accompanied by the aforementioned bass extension.


 
 Sorry for the off topic post, but is the C3 worth it? Is the UI unbearable? I'm thinking of picking one up, a guy around me is selling it for 30USD.


----------



## actorlife

Feri Some like for looks.


----------



## actorlife

guywholikeshifi said:


> Sorry for the off topic post, but is the C3 worth it? Is the UI unbearable? I'm thinking of picking one up, a guy around me is selling it for 30USD.




Check these out too: 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/834797/the-shenzhen-benjie-bj-t6-agptek-rocker
And the Cayin N3 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/833932/coming-soon-cayin-n3-hi-res-dap-with-akm4490-dac-apt-x-bluetooth-and-line-usb-coax-out-for-under-200/270#post_13330331
Some good players coming. The Benjie T8 looks like a nice model be out in a couple of months.


----------



## MissChristie

guywholikeshifi said:


> Sorry for the off topic post, but is the C3 worth it? Is the UI unbearable? I'm thinking of picking one up, a guy around me is selling it for 30USD.


 
  
 The C3 is wonderful if sound quality without breaking the bank is your #1 concern. The capacitive buttons are easy enough to work with but the UI is very bare bones and it has an odd quirk of organizing your folders by date added to the storage. There are workarounds, but if ease of use is a priority, I would recommend looking elsewhere. For $30, I would highly recommend snatching that up. If anything it makes a inexpensive way to test if a DAP is really a device that works well for you, and you can always upgrade to something else later.


----------



## GuywhoLikesHIFI

> Originally Posted by *MissChristie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The C3 is wonderful if sound quality without breaking the bank is your #1 concern. The capacitive buttons are easy enough to work with but the UI is very bare bones and it has an odd quirk of organizing your folders by date added to the storage. There are workarounds, but if ease of use is a priority, I would recommend looking elsewhere. For $30, I would highly recommend snatching that up. If anything it makes a inexpensive way to test if a DAP is really a device that works well for you, and you can always upgrade to something else later.


 
  
  


> Check these out too:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/834797/the-shenzhen-benjie-bj-t6-agptek-rocker
> And the Cayin N3 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/833932/coming-soon-cayin-n3-hi-res-dap-with-akm4490-dac-apt-x-bluetooth-and-line-usb-coax-out-for-under-200/270#post_13330331
> Some good players coming. The Benjie T8 looks like a nice model be out in a couple of months.


 
 Thanks.


----------



## Nailzs

veragene said:


> Can someone recommend me a good IEM with strong bass for electronic music?
> 
> Currently using Audio technical CKM500IS and I am not sure if KZ is worth or considered as an upgrade.
> 
> PS: I'm just a amateur in Audio stuff


 
 Of all the earphones I own the Mee Audio Sport-Fi M6's bass is the only one that actually makes my head vibrate listening to something like Awolnation's Sail. Much deeper bass than my KZ's.


----------



## khighly

loomisjohnson said:


> the tennmak pro sounds more "refined" in the sense of more accurately reproducing the music, and has more highend detail than the kz3, but like crabdog i think it's a bit too midbassy and i personally prefer the zs3. i like the tennmak dulcimer even more.




There is a port hole on the outside of the tennmaks above the logo, it is very tiny and a sewing needle will only go through it. It's covered from the inside (people think because they're sold as 'sport' and a hole on the outside could let water in.

I poked through the 'sticker' that's covering it and it really smoothed the mids and the mid bass of my Tennmak Pro's right out and opened up some high range. Absolutely wonderful neutral balanced sound signature but still not enough of a soundstage. Better than the ATE and ATR by miles. If you want an upgrade to KZ, Check the Tennmak Pro's.

ZST is still my favorite but it's a completely different beast.


----------



## metonedeaf

khighly said:


> There is a port hole on the outside of the tennmaks above the logo, it is very tiny and a sewing needle will only go through it. It's covered from the inside (people think because they're sold as 'sport' and a hole on the outside could let water in.
> 
> I poked through the 'sticker' that's covering it and it really smoothed the mids and the mid bass of my Tennmak Pro's right out and opened up some high range. Absolutely wonderful neutral balanced sound signature but still not enough of a soundstage. Better than the ATE and ATR by miles. If you want an upgrade to KZ, Check the Tennmak Pro's.
> 
> ZST is still my favorite but it's a completely different beast.


 
 Tennmak not on sale in my country, but Rock Zircon is. I wonder if it is an upgrade to ZST...


----------



## crabdog

metonedeaf said:


> Tennmak not on sale in my country, but Rock Zircon is. I wonder if it is an upgrade to ZST...


 
 The Zircon has a ton more bass than the ZST but IMO the ZST is a better IEM. Another option that I think beats them both is the MEMT X5 which retails for about $18.


----------



## To.M

Really MEMT X5 trumps ZST? Is it THAT good?


----------



## B9Scrambler

to.m said:


> Really MEMT X5 trumps ZST? Is it THAT good?


 
  
 The SOMiC V4 trumps the ZST (imo). Since the V4 is apparently on pretty much the same level as the X5, I can believe it.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> The SOMiC V4 trumps the ZST (imo). Since the V4 is apparently on pretty much the same level as the X5, I can believe it.


i bet when zsr comes out no iem can beat it unless the top tier iem like magoasi k3 pro.


----------



## vegetaleb

Do you think aliexpress will do an anniversary promotion day on the 29th like they did last year?
 It will be great to have some KZ at 50%, heck even 30%


----------



## BoomBap08

Hi, guys!

Just wanna get your thoughts regarding the Ath IM50, KZ ZST + SPC cable, and TFZ Series 5S. Which of these 3 y'all think is best in terms of:
- Imaging/Instrument Separation
- Soundstage
- Lows
- Highs
- Clarity in the mids

Exclusively looking for comparison between these 3.

Thanks!


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> i bet when zsr comes out no iem can beat it unless the top tier iem like magoasi k3 pro.


 
  
 That would be great! Probably won't, but we can always dream...
  

  
 I have faith in KZ.


----------



## rad7

crabdog said:


> The Zircon has a ton more bass than the ZST but IMO the ZST is a better IEM. Another option that I think beats them both is the MEMT X5 which retails for about $18.


 
  
 What is the MEMT X5's sound signature like? I like my earphones to be less bright & have a gentle, non-fatiguing sound signature. Do you think these will fit the bill?


----------



## crabdog

rad7 said:


> What is the MEMT X5's sound signature like? I like my earphones to be less bright & have a gentle, non-fatiguing sound signature. Do you think these will fit the bill?


 
 They're very 'clean' sounding but I wouldn't say bright. The treble is very non-fatiguing and there's no harsh peaks or sibilance. The midrange is very clear and uncolored and bass is slightly elevated but I wouldn't call them a bassy IEM.


----------



## VShaft

mus1c said:


> i bet when zsr comes out no iem can beat it unless the top tier iem like magoasi k3 pro.


 

 I don't think that the K3 Pro would be considered top tier. Compared to a $10 KZ, sure, but not to other IEMs out there that cost hundreds of dollars and use some super-duper tech. Judging from the info we know, the ZSR should be a direct competitor to the K3.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Well I've just got and have been using my ZSTs for a week, and first impressions was, they don't look as good visually as they do online lol. It's decent to look at just the fake carbon fibre which looks kinda tacky. 

I am a real amateur in this audio thing and am merely moving on from a broken pair of Zircons 

Anyways since the Zircons were so bassy I did kinda feel like something was missing when at first but after a bit of listening they definitely did sound better. 

Since I don't have much experience with different earphones, what I can say about the sound is that the layering, soundstage and imaging are noticeably better than the Zircon's, sometimes feeling like the sound is coming from something much bigger like you have headphone cups on your ear(?). Details are quite noticeable and you can definitely hear the backing guitars even when there's quite a lot going on. Vocals sound quite natural but can sound ever so slightly muffled sometimes. Female or higher vocals can sound quite bright and alive so if pop or rock is what makes up most of your music library I do recommend the ZST. However the elevated treble can get fatiguing for longer listening periods as a result. The sub-bass that *is* there is quite tight and you don't hear any signs of distortion which is good but it's definitely no where deep enough for EDM and other genres with heavy bass. Mid bass could be tighter but not distorted either. 

Bass: 6.5/10
Mids: 8/10
Treble: 8.5/10
Overall sound: 8/10

As for the comfort and fit, I didn't really like the tips (they also felt pretty cheap and had a weird texture) so I just switched them with some generic tips and they felt much better so I'm sure y'all who spend(my audiophile friend would tell me it's *investing* instead) more on tips would have no problem with the fit of it in your ear as you barely feel them in your ears. The new addition of memory wires works pretty well in making them sit on your ears without falling out too but since its my first time using a set of iems that go around the ear it was a bit of hassle at first but now that they've taken shape of my ear they slip on pretty easily. No physical strains or pressure points and tips stay in well. Should avoid running without a shirt clip or something though cuz the microphonics are definitely pretty bad unless you put them under your shirt which works pretty well eliminating most of it. 

Comfort: 7.5/10
Fit: 8/10

As for the accessories, well there are none unless you count the tips but the box and presentation looked decent so
4/10
I mean you can't expect too much with this price tag

Yeah, not bad this. Definitely worth your 15$ or less

Overall: 8/10


----------



## TheWongWrong

Snapped this with my phone as well


----------



## To.M

It looks like you haven't inserted the cable into the housings to the end...do it and revise your opinion!


----------



## TheWongWrong

Huh


----------



## TheWongWrong

to.m said:


> It looks like you haven't inserted the cable into the housings to the end...do it and revise your opinion!


 oh yeah I found out after taking the picture don't worry lol


----------



## TheWongWrong

Well I just found out my left bud is A LOT harder to remove then my right one. Anyone experience that?


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> That would be great! Probably won't, but we can always dream...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


why not, i have high expectations on 10 ba that kz planning to do on zsr, it must be insanely good iem.


----------



## TheWongWrong

to.m said:


> It looks like you haven't inserted the cable into the housings to the end...do it and revise your opinion!


 um now that you mentioned that
Are the ones in the official photos inserted incompletely as well


----------



## To.M

With the ZST one has to be careful about their L/R connections and plugging the connectors deep up to the markings on the housings. Due to that some people may have a mistaken opinion about them.


----------



## IronOverheat

I'm sorry for not reading all the messages (I mean, 1000 pages, c'mon), but I would appreciate if someone could answer my question. I'm new to the site and created this account only with the purpose to ask the following questions: 1. Is the KZ ATE the best out of KZ's line of budget earphones (I the most balanced, detailed 'hi-fi' sound)? 2. Is the KZ ATE superior to the Mrice E300 (which I own). 3. Is the KZ ATE the best budget (mine is 20$) earphone?


----------



## ferisalgue

ironoverheat said:


> I'm sorry for not reading all the messages (I mean, 1000 pages, c'mon), but I would appreciate if someone could answer my question. I'm new to the site and created this account only with the purpose to ask the following questions: 1. Is the KZ ATE the best out of KZ's line of budget earphones (I the most balanced, detailed 'hi-fi' sound)? 2. Is the KZ ATE superior to the Mrice E300 (which I own). 3. Is the KZ ATE the best budget (mine is 20$) earphone?


 
 I hated the ATE. Get the ZS3, much better.


----------



## IronOverheat

ferisalgue said:


> I hated the ATE. Get the ZS3, much better.


 
 IDK, all other reviews say the KZ ATE is the better.


----------



## ferisalgue

ironoverheat said:


> IDK, all other reviews say the KZ ATE is the better.


 
 haha which ones? not in a million years, the bass on the ATE is really overly colored and present. ZS3 has enhanced bass but feels natural. The soundstage is really extraordinary, and highs are great. I even liked the ZS3 more than my ZST and I've always preferred brighter signatures. 
  
 If you are willing to spend more money, try the Ocharaku Co-Donguri Shizuku, but that is if you are willing to drop 66 USD IEM shipped from Japan. If not, ZS3 blew my mind for the price. A friend of mine got the ATE, after hearing them I'm surprised I took KZ seriously. 
  
 Maybe I'm hating on the ATE too much, but I really disliked them, and in Audio it's all relative to the individual. I would say, get both, decide and sell the one you don't like. You'll spend like 18USD shipped for both so no much harm there.


----------



## KipNix

I have to report the original cable on my ZS3 went out. I couldn't believe it. I tested it by changing the left and right cable plugs and sure enough, one side was bad. There wasn't a weak point in the cable, either.
 I've ordered a third party cable on Ali and am wondering if many of you have encountered this; a batch defect?
 It was ordered at Gearbest in September 2016.


----------



## VShaft

ironoverheat said:


> I'm sorry for not reading all the messages (I mean, 1000 pages, c'mon), but I would appreciate if someone could answer my question. I'm new to the site and created this account only with the purpose to ask the following questions: 1. Is the KZ ATE the best out of KZ's line of budget earphones (I the most balanced, detailed 'hi-fi' sound)? 2. Is the KZ ATE superior to the Mrice E300 (which I own). 3. Is the KZ ATE the best budget (mine is 20$) earphone?


 
  
 1. Probably not. I personally find the ZS3 better in all aspects. The ATE has a very non-fatiguing sound, though. I didn't feel the bass done wrong on the ATE, but the mids and highs do sound somewhat recessed compared to it. At least if felt so in my ears. I love my ATE, but the ZS3 has replaced it almost completely.
  
 2. Don't know. Don't have that model.
  
 3. As to the best budget KZ, it's generally the ZST vs ZS3. Each has got their favorite, though.
  
 However, if you want most balanced and detailed sound at around $20, take a look at *Urbanfun HIFI*. It may be more to your liking, as people have reported on its exceptional clarity and balance in tuning.


----------



## ferisalgue

kipnix said:


> I have to report the original cable on my ZS3 went out. I couldn't believe it. I tested it by changing the left and right cable plugs and sure enough, one side was bad. There wasn't a weak point in the cable, either.
> I've ordered a third party cable on Ali and am wondering if many of you have encountered this; a batch defect?
> It was ordered at Gearbest in September 2016.


 
 I already ordered the silver cable from KZ but because I don't like the original. What cable specs did you got? I could not find another .72mm 2-pin cables.


----------



## kokakolia

vshaft said:


> 1. Probably not. I personally find the ZS3 better in all aspects. The ATE has a very non-fatiguing sound, though. I didn't feel the bass done wrong on the ATE, but the mids and highs do sound somewhat recessed compared to it. At least if felt so in my ears. I love my ATE, but the ZS3 has replaced it almost completely.
> 
> 2. Don't know. Don't have that model.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't know why these 2 models get all of the attention. Personally, I love my ED7s for having decent soundstage and sounding balanced.


----------



## B9Scrambler

For those who were interested in how the ZST compares to the SOMiC V4, you can find my take on them in my V4 review;
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/new-arrival-somic-v4-double-moving-coil-in-ear-earphones/reviews/18205
  
 Quick rundown; V4 is a smoother, more refined and balanced earphone. ZST is great and all but to me the V4 is a clear upgrade, though with a very different signature.


----------



## rad7

b9scrambler said:


> The SOMiC V4 trumps the ZST (imo). Since the V4 is apparently on pretty much the same level as the X5, I can believe it.


 
 Hi, I love your reviews! Have you reviewed or planning to review the X5s?


----------



## B9Scrambler

rad7 said:


> Hi, I love your reviews! Have you reviewed or planning to review the X5s?


 
  
 Thanks! I've been humming and hawing over getting a pair. Love me some micro-drivers and the X5 is getting some glowing feedback from people I trust. The only thing holding me back is they don't really sound like they offer up a signature that's not already covered by something in my micro-driver collection. If a fellow Canadian wanted to send over their pair for a week or so for review purposes, I'd definitely be willing to cover them.


----------



## metonedeaf

b9scrambler said:


> For those who were interested in how the ZST compares to the SOMiC V4, you can find my take on them in my V4 review;
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/new-arrival-somic-v4-double-moving-coil-in-ear-earphones/reviews/18205
> 
> Quick rundown; V4 is a smoother, more refined and balanced earphone. ZST is great and all but to me the V4 is a clear upgrade, though with a very different signature.


 
 I read your review as well as the one from audiobudget. Wanted to buy but sellers in my country are asking too much... in the territory of zero audio


----------



## Mus1c

kokakolia said:


> I don't know why these 2 models get all of the attention. Personally, I love my ED7s for having decent soundstage and sounding balanced.


 i don't know but ate and zs3 is the top kz if want balanced sound signature btw the ed7 shares the same driver as ate and sound similar maybe you love ate.


----------



## mag8

Thanks to this forum I picked up a pair of KZ ATR and made a diy carrying case for it.

So far I really enjoy them, but it forced me to use the equalizer from Spotify to enjoy them more. Without the EQ set to a V, i seem not to like the sound too much. 

Anyone had the same?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## Mus1c

mag8 said:


> Thanks to this forum I picked up a pair of KZ ATR and made a diy carrying case for it.
> 
> So far I really enjoy them, but it forced me to use the equalizer from Spotify to enjoy them more. Without the EQ set to a V, i seem not to like the sound too much.
> 
> ...


no, i have kz atr but i like it without eq when listening to music through spotify.

What do you use for the diy case? Y not you buy it.


----------



## mag8

mus1c said:


> mag8 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks to this forum I picked up a pair of KZ ATR and made a diy carrying case for it.
> ...




The whole point of these headphones is that they cost 8$. If you buy a 5$ case it defies the purpose.
I used an Altoids can, which is good enough for me

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## Mus1c

mag8 said:


> The whole point of these headphones is that they cost 8$. If you buy a 5$ case it defies the purpose.
> I used an Altoids can, which is good enough for me
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


 ok,c'mon the case it's cheap btw.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mag8 said:


> The whole point of these headphones is that they cost 8$. *If you buy a 5$ case it defies the purpose.*
> I used an Altoids can, which is good enough for me
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


 
  
 A good $5 case can be a solid return on investment if it saves you from having to buy another earphone, or two, etc. But, if you can make one for free that does the same thing? Why the heck not!? 
  
 I chose to spend 86 cents each on a bunch of these, and will probably be getting more.
  
 ​  
  
  
 I was expecting them to be decent, at least as good as those cheapo faux carbon fibre cases you see everywhere (like in the above pic with the Clipper), but they're much better than those. They are extremely spacious yet compact and pocket-able. They're very stiff so they don't crush easily. The KZ logo is also a little metal plate, not plastic or rubber as I was expecting. The zipper feels like a weak point, but it's identical to the one used on the other case and I have a ton of those too, none of which have failed. For under a buck, it's awesome!
  
 I bought mine here for anyone that's interested. No affiliation. Haven't bought from them before, at least that I can recall. Shipping took a million years to get to Canada, as always, haha.
  
 *Edit: The case is large enough to fit a couple pair of earphones, or even a small music player+earphone and spare tips. It's not shown in the above picture, but I use one case to carry the FLC8s and it's filter holder along with a Shanling M1.*


----------



## mag8

b9scrambler said:


> mag8 said:
> 
> 
> > The whole point of these headphones is that they cost 8$. *If you buy a 5$ case it defies the purpose.*
> ...




I thought about buying one of those, but then I realised they would come in 3weeks, so I looked around the house...Ate all the mints and voila I have a case!
I like those ones, I might buy one in the future since waiting is not an issue anymore 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## mag8

mus1c said:


> mag8 said:
> 
> 
> > The whole point of these headphones is that they cost 8$. If you buy a 5$ case it defies the purpose.
> ...




Yes, thanks for noticing

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Link to case is broken?

My KZ case doesn't have a fancy badge and costed a full $0.20 more! What a ripoff lmao /s


----------



## B9Scrambler

sometechnoob said:


> Link to case is broken?
> 
> My KZ case doesn't have a fancy badge and costed a full $0.20 more! What a ripoff lmao /s


 
  
 Yup. Link has been fixed. Thanks for the heads up. I would just paste it is but it's uneccessarily long. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## harry501501

vshaft said:


> 1. Probably not. I personally find the ZS3 better in all aspects. The ATE has a very non-fatiguing sound, though. I didn't feel the bass done wrong on the ATE, but the mids and highs do sound somewhat recessed compared to it. At least if felt so in my ears. I love my ATE, but the ZS3 has replaced it almost completely.
> 
> 2. Don't know. Don't have that model.
> 
> ...


 
 The KZ ATR is better than ATE, ZS3 and ZST. It's got better balance, although still has that big bass that most KZ sets have.
  
 The Urbanfun is technically the better set but it is quite sterile and lacks the musicality (and general fun) of most KZs.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Imo ZS3 is far better than the ATR. I guess it depends a lot on the fit since the ATR's sound varies a lot depending how it gets inserted in my ear.


----------



## To.M

And please don't say that Urbanfun lacks musicality or hasten to add TO YOUR EARS, I got them today and to my ears they are a fantastic pair of earphones with full sound with a good resolution, balanced signature, nice sub bass and general clarity, I love ZST but it looks like Urbanfun will trump them.


----------



## Podster

to.m said:


> And please don't say that Urbanfun lacks musicality or hasten to add TO YOUR EARS, I got them today and to my ears they are a fantastic pair of earphones with full sound with a good resolution, balanced signature, nice sub bass and general clarity, I love ZST but it looks like Urbanfun will trump them.


 

 It's true we all hear them differently, for my ears the Urb's can't touch the ZST's
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I actually still prefer my 4 year old chromed brass ED9's to the Urban's but if it sounds good to you then that's all that counts


----------



## To.M

Indeed, when my ears are happy then nothing else matters 

However, apart from our ears, I guess it all about our sources. For example,I love ZST, they pair up well with my phone but with my dap it is not the same. Well, there is also a matter of tips...and other factors...geez it is so flipping subjective!


----------



## IronOverheat

I think I'm going to get the Gemtune Urbanfun then, it seems like it fits my tastes according to you guys. If anyone has better recommendations, let me make my tastes very clear:
  
 1. Overall faithfulness to how sound works IRL, "realistic", to experience sound as it is meant to be
 2. Balance, having all aspects of sound sound good, not just bass or treble (which doesn't mean it can't have good bass and treble)
 3. Overall Detail
 4. High, non fatiguing volume with lowest distortion as possible
  
 All of that, or at least as close as possible, in a 20$ budget. The reason for that is that I can't afford anything more expensive, things are a lot more expensive here in Brazil. Like seriously. Some car taxes that would be 95 dollars are 25000 of our currency here (and our currency is only a third of a dollar).
  
 I swear to god the people of the future are going to look back at how audio reproduction and music making is today, and laugh at how much harder it was to experience and create sound. It's gonna be heaven when science decodes the brain and we start sending data to it. Hearing recorded audio directly from brain and making songs just by thinking them is going to be soooo fricking cool. Let's just hope we live long enough to see it.


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> Imo ZS3 is far better than the ATR. I guess it depends a lot on the fit since the ATR's sound varies a lot depending how it gets inserted in my ear.


 and it's depend towards personal preferences too. I like kz atr.


----------



## To.M

IronOverheat I guess Urbanfun should tick all your boxes. They are balanced, detailed with nice lows when a song requires it. However, the stock tips are not good and I recommend these ones:

http://s.aliexpress.com/NVj6zQb6 

Interesting remark about the future of the audio world. How will it look like in 50 years? Will earphones survive? I will leave now to listen to some music reflecting on it! 

P.s. I feel you man, not that many people around the world (count me in) can afford to buy $$$ audio gear.


----------



## Caipirina

Just received confirmation of some new arrivals at my delivery address: 
  


 silver replacement cable for ZS3, another ZS3 as back up, and my first ZST     (and there was this mini sleep IEM that just looked too interesting  , not a KZ though)
  
 Now .. I just have to wait until I, myself, get to my delivery address  ...  in June ... 
  
 That being said, anything new / upcoming in the KZ world I should be aware of?  Cheers


----------



## VShaft

ironoverheat said:


> I swear to god the people of the future are going to look back at how audio reproduction and music making is today, and laugh at how much harder it was to experience and create sound. *It's gonna be heaven when science decodes the brain and we start sending data to it.* Hearing recorded audio directly from brain and making songs just by thinking them is going to be soooo fricking cool. Let's just hope we live long enough to see it.


 
  
 Hmmm, when audio's concerned, it's just going to be the same like today is with headphones, only with those *brain transmitters*. Nobody's gonna want to hear music the same way, transmitted to one's brain. So, audio companies are gonna come up with more balanced brain transmitters for those preferring an analytical sound, bass-oriented brain transmitters for bass-junkies, darker brain transmitters, brighter brain transmitters.
  
 Sennheiser MindWaveHD600 for Mister Audiophile. Grado SR80 Mind Edition. Koss is probably just gonna have the same ol' Porta Pro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. MindBeats by Dre for the cool kids. Monster Inside Turbine for the cool kids with slightly less money. Skullcandy XCiteUrMind X-2000 edition in all colors for those who shop at Wallmart. Bose ThinkMusic with QuietMind technology. I'm confident Focal will also put out a MindUtopia model that'll cost you 2 kidneys and a leg.
  
 Then the "cable" companies will come out with improved "antennas", better silver interconnects, balanced brain-wave emitters so you don't accidentally transmit any noise with your music. You will have burn-in brain waves, and I suppose brain burn-in will get another meaning.
  
 Of course, old-school headphones will still exist, only pricier than ever. Because the brain transmitters will sound artificial, and cold, even though they're supposed to to be superior. But, headphones will just have that _warmth_, and _soul_, you know?


----------



## Mus1c

Are kz zst are good in edm music?


----------



## NateInBelgium

mus1c said:


> Are kz zst are good in edm music?




I like their presentation of EDM. They have good deep and taught bass but they aren't for bassheads.
It's all subjective to the listener of course, but the way they are tuned is to bring out the fun in music listening while trying to cater to a broad spectrum of tastes.

All I know is I like their sound with my sources and go back to them over headphones and IEMs I've bought costing from double to ten times the price.


----------



## OZZERO

I have received my KZ ZS3 (mic) from Gearbest. Boy oh boy I'm having a hard time getting a good fit in my ear. It's consistently falling out. 
  
 Just out of curiosity, is there any difference in sound quality between the mic and non-mic versions? The sound quality is just like my Panasonic earphones that I got from Amazon. I expected something a bit better - at least a little bit more bass.


----------



## Shawn71

ozzero said:


> I have received my KZ ZS3 (mic) from Gearbest. Boy oh boy I'm having a hard time getting a good fit in my ear. It's consistently falling out.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, is there any difference in sound quality between the mic and non-mic versions? The sound quality is just like my Panasonic earphones that I got from Amazon. I expected something a bit better - at least a little bit more bass.




possible reverse pin connections........see that L and R marks of the cable matches the left and right on the earpieces.


----------



## OZZERO

shawn71 said:


> possible reverse pin connections........see that L and R marks of the cable matches the left and right on the earpieces.


 
 Yes they match.


----------



## Drakis

ozzero said:


> Yes they match.


 

 That happened to me. I have to use memory foam tips. Like Comply.


----------



## Vidal

ozzero said:


> I have received my KZ ZS3 (mic) from Gearbest. Boy oh boy I'm having a hard time getting a good fit in my ear. It's consistently falling out.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, is there any difference in sound quality between the mic and non-mic versions? The sound quality is just like my Panasonic earphones that I got from Amazon. I expected something a bit better - at least a little bit more bass.


 
  
 You haven't got a seal in the ear, when you have the ZS3 are on the bassy side. If they're falling out then something is wrong, is the cable over your ear?


----------



## Podster

vidal said:


> You haven't got a seal in the ear, when you have the ZS3 are on the bassy side. If they're falling out then something is wrong, is the cable over your ear?


 

 I'm with Vidal on this one and of course you have already mentioned them falling out so you are not getting a good seal. I'd tip roll until I found a good sealing pair. Over ear with the KZ silver plate worked best for me with Auvio's once I cut that stupid ear guide/protector off, man are those things annoying


----------



## OZZERO

vidal said:


> You haven't got a seal in the ear, when you have the ZS3 are on the bassy side. If they're falling out then something is wrong, is the cable over your ear?


 
 Managed to get a better seal by switching the ear buds. Still no bass. Did I receive a dud pair? I presume Gearbest is a reliable source for the earphones, right?


----------



## Vidal

ozzero said:


> Managed to get a better seal by switching the ear buds. Still no bass. Did I receive a dud pair? I presume Gearbest is a reliable source for the earphones, right?


 
  
 If both lack bass then they're not faulty, you just still haven't got a seal in the ear canal yet. If one on it's own was lacking bass then it might be a fault but to get two is too much of a coincidence. 
  
 There mustn't be any gap between the eartip and the ear-canal wall, even a slight one will kill the bass.
  
 Gearbest are spot on for KZ stuff


----------



## OZZERO

vidal said:


> If both lack bass then they're not faulty, you just still haven't got a seal in the ear canal yet. If one on it's own was lacking bass then it might be a fault but to get two is too much of a coincidence.
> 
> There mustn't be any gap between the eartip and the ear-canal wall, even a slight one will kill the bass.
> 
> Gearbest are spot on for KZ stuff


 
 Does the wire matter (mic v no mic)?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

No


----------



## IronOverheat

That probably was a joke, but in the case it wasn't: the whole purpose of listening to sound to your brain is to have a true objectively best audio experience, so there would probably only be identical technologies by different brands that sound objectively the best in everyone's perspective. If it didn't, it would defeat that purpose.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ozzero said:


> Managed to get a better seal by switching the ear buds. Still no bass. Did I receive a dud pair? I presume Gearbest is a reliable source for the earphones, right?


 
  
 If you have't already tried this, I recommend swapping to the largest size tip and working your way down from there to something that provides the best combination of sound and comfort. I generally use medium sized tips but with shallow fit earphones like the ZS3 often find myself moving up to large tips to get a proper seal. No bass is almost always a seal issue so if you're still not getting anything out of them after trying various tips sizes, they could possibly be a dud. Maybe have someone else try them too, just to get a second opinion.
  
 Gearbest is legit. *thumbs up*


----------



## walfredo

ozzero said:


> vidal said:
> 
> 
> > You haven't got a seal in the ear, when you have the ZS3 are on the bassy side. If they're falling out then something is wrong, is the cable over your ear?
> ...


 
  
 For the ZK ATE, it helps a lot to pass the cables over the ears.


----------



## VShaft

ironoverheat said:


> That probably was a joke, but in the case it wasn't: the whole purpose of listening to sound to your brain is to have a true objectively best audio experience, so there would probably only be identical technologies by different brands that sound objectively the best in everyone's perspective. If it didn't, it would defeat that purpose.


 

 It was a half-joke, actually. I seriously doubt the technology would be implemented so cleanly as you envision. And I honestly think the situation would be similar to the headphone one we have now - all these different brands offering these different tunings, often at outrageous prices. So, I do believe ther'll be brain transmitters that transmit a more "flat" signal, those who transmit a bit more "bass" to your brain, or those who do something else. I know it would defeat the purpose of the tech, but the audio industry is still an industry, and when money talks, the purpose somehow often tends to get defeated.
  
 I mean, look at all the freedom the Internet gives in _everything_. How to, then, explain the "This music/video is not available in your country" BS I have to look at every day that's at least 20 years outdated, yet is still here, and will be for the foreseeable future?
  
 EDIT: And yeah, I think KZ will have the best brain transmitter's for the buck.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> You haven't got a seal in the ear, when you have the ZS3 are on the bassy side. If they're falling out then something is wrong, is the cable over your ear?


 zs3 vs zst which one consider the best to listen edm.


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> zs3 vs zst which one consider the best to listen edm.


 
  
 Probably ZS3, but I don't listen to EDM much.


----------



## Mus1c

Ok i just ordered zs3.


----------



## ferisalgue

mus1c said:


> Ok i just ordered zs3.


 
 I mean, you could order both, could spend close to 25 tops for the pair and you could decide for yourself and use them for different genres  just a thought


----------



## Mus1c

ferisalgue said:


> I mean, you could order both, could spend close to 25 tops for the pair and you could decide for yourself and use them for different genres  just a thought


 i just make order base on what genre i listen to and kzs3 is the only choice that suit my taste.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> i just make order base on what genre i listen to and kzs3 is the only choice that suit my taste.


 
  
 The RX and ED3c/m/"The Acme" follow the same signature as the ZS3 and would be a good alternatives, especially if you want a more traditional housing. The ZS3 is a bit more capable than either of those, but not by much, RX in particular.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> The RX and ED3c/m/"The Acme" follow the same signature as the ZS3 and would be a good alternatives, especially if you want a more traditional housing. The ZS3 is a bit more capable than either of those, but not by much, RX in particular.


 zs3 is more towards to bass heavy because im basshead person and that's way i purchase the zs3,i don't like the traditional looking cuz i prefer more to over ear style and expensive look. Ed3 and rx by far,how they sound compare to zs3?.


----------



## ferisalgue

mus1c said:


> zs3 is more towards to bass heavy because im basshead person and that's way i purchase the zs3,i don't like the traditional looking cuz i prefer more to over ear style and expensive look. Ed3 and rx by far,how they sound compare to zs3?.




ZS3 is NOT a bass head earphones. Did not expect that. I found them quite balanced with a very nice enhancement on bass. But it is by no means a basshead earphone.


----------



## ricemanhk

ferisalgue said:


> ZS3 is NOT a bass head earphones. Did not expect that. I found them quite balanced with a very nice enhancement on bass. But it is by no means a basshead earphone.


 
  
 Well...that depends on what you consider as a bass head!  ZS3 definitely is bass heavy.  Whether it's enough for a bass head depends on how much bass that bass head wants.  I would expect most bass heads would find them strong enough, and those who want things to 11 can just tweak the EQ some more.


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> Well...that depends on what you consider as a bass head!  ZS3 definitely is bass heavy.  Whether it's enough for a bass head depends on how much bass that bass head wants.  I would expect most bass heads would find them strong enough, and those who want things to 11 can just tweak the EQ some more.


 
  
 Yeah, I agree. I'm a basshead and the ZN3 are plenty for me. They easily have as much bass as the ED9, which are considered a basshead IEM. I would think any more and it would risk sounding muddy and artificially boosted, or losing the additional detail the ZN3 has.
  
 One can always roll tips to get even more bass on the ZN3 - DIY hybrid tips, Spiral Dots, wide flanges, etc. Or EQ as you pointed out.


----------



## walfredo

Folks:  
  
 What is the diameter of the kz headphones?  (KZ ATE, it it matters)  I'd like to get http://www.complyfoam.com/Compatibility# and don't which diameter to get
  
 Thanks!


----------



## OZZERO

mus1c said:


> Ok i just ordered zs3.


 
 Where did you buy them from? Also, please let me know how you find them.
  
 I've got mine connected to my laptop and I don't really find them bass heavy. The sound is equal to these Panasonic earbuds I have:
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-RP-HJE125E-K-Ergo-Ear-Headphone-Black/dp/B00CBU0IV8/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
  
 I've been offered a refund or a replacement by Gearbest. Not sure what to do, but perhaps I could try the Zircon's? I heard they're bass heavy.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The ZS3 are "bass heavy" in audiophile terms, but when compared to consumer v shaped stuff they sound balanced imo.


----------



## Mus1c

ozzero said:


> Where did you buy them from? Also, please let me know how you find them.
> 
> I've got mine connected to my laptop and I don't really find them bass heavy. The sound is equal to these Panasonic earbuds I have:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-RP-HJE125E-K-Ergo-Ear-Headphone-Black/dp/B00CBU0IV8/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
> ...


 why, where you did you buy them, zs3 should not sound equal to hje 125 thats crap or maybe you got faulty one cuz kz qc not good.

Link to zs3 https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32778123444.html#autostay


----------



## OZZERO

mus1c said:


> why, where you did you buy them, zs3 should not sound equal to hje 125 thats crap or maybe you got faulty one cuz kz qc not good.
> 
> Link to zs3 https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32778123444.html#autostay


 
 Yeah perhaps I got a faulty one. In any case, Gearbest have given me a refund so props to their customer service.
  
 It's tempting to try and purchase the ZS3 again although I'm worried they might not be up to scratch again, lol.
  
 Anyone aware when the new ZSR will be coming out? And are there any good alternatives to the ZS3 for bassheads?


----------



## Mus1c

ozzero said:


> Yeah perhaps I got a faulty one. In any case, Gearbest have given me a refund.


 try the link i that gave to you.i see a lot of positive reviews on the seller page maybe you should give a shot.


----------



## To.M

http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## ayao

ozzero said:


> Where did you buy them from? Also, please let me know how you find them.
> 
> I've got mine connected to my laptop and I don't really find them bass heavy. The sound is equal to these Panasonic earbuds I have:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-RP-HJE125E-K-Ergo-Ear-Headphone-Black/dp/B00CBU0IV8/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
> ...


 
 Not sure how different the HJE125 is from the HJE120, but the HJE120 is quite bassy (V-shaped). Perhaps your ZS3 isn't faulty but you just prefer more bass. Do you mind the balance of the other frequencies (mid and treble)? If you only care about bass (nothing wrong with that, it's all preferential), then bass cannons would be the way to go.
  
 I haven't heard the Zircon, but the ZS1 comes to my mind when talking about bass. The treble rolls off quite a lot, so one might perceive that as muffled/muddy/lacking-in-detail, but as a result you can turn up the volume without your ears bleeding. The ZS1 has the most forward sub-bass out of all the earphones I've heard; I haven't heard the XB90EX, but I do own an ASG-2.


----------



## Slater

ozzero said:


> Anyone aware when the new ZSR will be coming out? And are there any good alternatives to the ZS3 for bassheads?


 
 ED9 (king of the bashead IEMs), ZN1 mini, ED "Special Edition" (aka KZ EDSE), ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not version with mesh screen), and ED3 are the most basshead-oriented IEMs in my collection (in that order). You can also do the closed port mod on the ATE, resulting in a very warm signature. The ATE-S is the bassiest out of the ATE revisions too (Translucent brown w/black memory wires and red plastic cable "reliefs").
  
 Most importanty, using KZ Starline tips significantly increases the bass (and fit/comfort) on all in the list, as well as other non-KZ bassy IEMs such as Rock Zircon and (to a lesser degree) MEMT X5.
  
 Obviously, amping helps bring out the bass on these too.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> ED9 (king of the bashead IEMs), ZN1 mini, ED "Special Edition" (aka KZ EDSE), ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not version with mesh screen), and ED3 are the most basshead-oriented IEMs in my collection (in that order). You can also do the closed port mod on the ATE, resulting in a very warm signature.
> 
> Most importanty, using KZ Starline tips significantly increases the bass (and fit/comfort) on all in the list, as well as other non-KZ bassy IEMs such as Rock Zircon and (to a lesser degree) MEMT X5.
> 
> Obviously, amping helps bring out the bass on these too.


 
  
 Oh wow. We hear these VERY differently, lmao! I'm 100% on board with the original ZS1 and maybe the ED3 if you're referring to the C version (red or blue model). The original silver ED3 is pretty bass-lite. The ZN1 Mini, EDse, and ED9 (gold filters) all have boosted bass, but the ZS1 shames them in my experience.


----------



## kokakolia

Referring to the ED9:


Wow! So someone called the short nozzle gold and the longer one brass and it stuck!? 

Gimme a break! They're both made of brass. One is polished, the other one has a rough surface. 

And yes, the "gold" nozzle provides an extreme V shape sound profile with boosted bass, boosted (fatiguing) treble and thin lifeless mids. 

I suppose that bassheads will be more than happy with the ED9s. They just have that "boom & sparkle". They sound best with electronic music but I wouldn't recommend them for rock/folk/blues etc...The mids are just so artificial and recessed.


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> Referring to the ED9:
> 
> 
> Wow! So someone called the short nozzle gold and the longer one brass and it stuck!?
> ...


 
  
 Chill bro. No one here thinks they're made of gold (I hope...). Brass and Gold can also be used to describe colors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 In this case it is a very clear way to differentiate between the two nozzles since short/long is not always clear in pictures. They've also been described that way in the thread since at least mid 2015, so the gold/brass descriptors are nothing new.


----------



## vegetaleb

Any new KZ?
 I love my ZS3 but the mic button works randomly, so it's time to get a new model, preferably with a memory wire.
 Oh yeah Aliexpress Anniversary is between he 28th and 30th


----------



## OZZERO

slaterlovesspam said:


> ED9 (king of the bashead IEMs), ZN1 mini, ED "Special Edition" (aka KZ EDSE), ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not version with mesh screen), and ED3 are the most basshead-oriented IEMs in my collection (in that order). You can also do the closed port mod on the ATE, resulting in a very warm signature.
> 
> Most importanty, using KZ Starline tips significantly increases the bass (and fit/comfort) on all in the list, as well as other non-KZ bassy IEMs such as Rock Zircon and (to a lesser degree) MEMT X5.
> 
> Obviously, amping helps bring out the bass on these too.


 
 Where do I buy these KZ tips?


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> Oh wow. We hear these VERY differently, lmao! I'm 100% on board with the original ZS1 and maybe the ED3 if you're referring to the C version (red or blue model). The original silver ED3 is pretty bass-lite. The ZN1 Mini, EDse, and ED9 (gold filters) all have boosted bass, but the ZS1 shames them in my experience.


 
  
 You bring up a valid point - everyone's ears hear something a little different. It's also not helped by the fact that there exists variation in KZ IEMs due to QC. I've had pairs before with channel imbalances, a pair of HDS2 that had glue clogging the housing vents (and thus sounded very weak compared to 2 other pairs of HDS2), and I read reports on HF of issues with the vents on ATE that were blocked or clogged (and some said that they simply removed the vents altogether on a later revision).
  
 I mean, look at the super #1 qrawlity controwl on this poor pair of ZS3 - crushed sound tube & driver all whopper-jawed:
  

  
  
 And sorry I should have clarified the ED3, as KZ has come out with numerous iterations of this - the original silver ED3, ED3c, ED3m Youth Edition, and they even had an ED3 Extreme. They also seemed to refer (possibly internally) to an ED3 'Acme' version. How many of those are the same as one another just painted a different color, or actually revised drivers I don't know. It's very confusing, because they have a history of quietly revising models without changing the model (as seen with the ZS1 brass ring vs grille). The ED3 I have is the ED3m Youth Edition.
  
 On the ZS1 and ZN1, I was never able to get a really good fit due to their odd shape unless I held them in. When I did so, they both had crazy bass because it improved the seal I guess. I don't know if that was due more to the shape of my ear drums or something with the length of the flange. Maybe that's why the ED9 were head and shoulders above the others on bass? They fit my ears really well (the best out of every KZ I own except the ZS3) = best seal and thus insane bass.
  
 Thinking about it more, it's entirely possible that I was covering up some of the vents with my fingers while holding the ZS1/ZN1 in. There is definitely untapped tuning potential on both by closing 1 or more of the 4 vents on the front of the ZS1 and ZN1. Has anyone ever modded this and reported back with the results?


----------



## To.M

ozzero said:


> Where do I buy these KZ tips?




Here they have them at a good price:

http://s.aliexpress.com/eMV3Ibya


----------



## Slater

ozzero said:


> Where do I buy these KZ tips?


 
 I've had good luck with this seller on the tips:
  
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-6pcs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Original-KZ-Tips-Earbuds-Earphone-Silicone-Eartips-Ear/32723329957.html
  
 Ordered them multiple times with no issues. The most competitive price I have yet to find once you factor in shipping.
  
 I am not sure which model they come on stock, but I have every single type of tip that KZ makes, and this one is just awesome. At the tip it becomes slightly pointed/cone shaped, which I think allows for a deeper insertion as well as being much more comfortable. The cone shape is similar to Spinfits.
  
 You can see the shape here:

 And instead of having a really wide flange like some of their tips, the hole at the end is very narrow (focusing the sound like a bass cannon at your eardrums). This is what made the ZS1 1st gen so powerful - it had a brass ring in the end of the flange that created a very narrow opening.

  
 The other killer feature of the KZ Starline tips is the surface of the silicone isn't silky smooth like their other tips - it has a textured surface that makes it grip like nothing I have seen before. This is by far my favorite tip, and I like them better than Spinfits, Sony Hybrid, JVC Spin Dots, and KZ turbos.
  
 You can kind of make out the textured finish in this photo:
  

  
 And compare the flange opening of the Starlines to the KZ Turbos:


----------



## zabunny94

slaterlovesspam said:


> They also seemed to refer (possibly internally) to an ED3 'Acme' version. How many of those are the same as one another just painted a different color, or actually revised drivers I don't know. It's very confusing, because they have a history of quietly revising models without changing the model (as seen with the ZS1 brass ring vs grille). The ED3 I have is the ED3m Youth Edition.




I have both the ed3 and ed3m and I can vouch that they're sounds different from each other, ed3 is more brighter and more dryer close to ed9 with brass. But i guess they're using the same driver but the different lengths of nozzle and housing material may the one that cause the sound difference. Cmiiw


----------



## actorlife

Are the starline tips on ebay? I thought I had them with the ATE, I don't.


----------



## OZZERO

slaterlovesspam said:


> I've had good luck with this seller on the tips:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-Pairs-6pcs-L-M-S-In-Ear-Original-KZ-Tips-Earbuds-Earphone-Silicone-Eartips-Ear/32723329957.html
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks. How long does shipping take?


----------



## Slater

ozzero said:


> Thanks. How long does shipping take?


 
  
 Like most things from China, don't be in a rush. Amazon Prime this ain't LOL
  
 Shipping takes a good 30 days to the US if you want the free shipping (surface, meaning slow boat from China). If you want to pay more for shipping, look for the 'e-packet' shipping, which is usually half that time (sometimes quicker). E-packets usually have tracking if you are one of those impatient types that likes to watch the shipment like a kid on Christmas morning.
  
 I buy 5+ sets at at time, so I only have to deal with the loooong wait once. It's worth the wait though.


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> Chill bro. No one here thinks they're made of gold (I hope...). Brass and Gold can also be used to describe colors
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Whaaaat? I thought they were SOLID GOLD man. I mean, they cost EIGHT DOLLARS - I expected no less than solid 24k gold nozzles. Or at the very least unobtanium. WTH!
  
 haha


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Are the starline tips on ebay? I thought I had them with the ATE, I don't.


 
  
 I just looked & didn't see any. You can count the number of KZ tips on eBay on 1 hand. On Aliexpress there's so many you'll be falling over them - every model KZ has ever made.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I think the starline tips only come default with the ZST atm


----------



## actorlife

sometechnoob said:


> I think the starline tips only come default with the ZST atm



Didnt know that got a pair on the way. Hoorah.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> I just looked & didn't see any. You can count the number of KZ tips on eBay on 1 hand. On Aliexpress there's so many you'll be falling over them - every model KZ has ever made.



Darn 30 days. Hopefully they are bundled with the ZST, which i ordered a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Darn 30 days. Hopefully they are bundled with the ZST, which i ordered a couple of weeks ago.


 
  
 Ah, patience is a virtue my friend :0)
  
 That's odd - I don't remember them being bundled with my ZST. Anyone know if they're supposed to be bundled with the carbon fiber/black ones, the blue/purple ones, or both?


----------



## actorlife

​


slaterlovesspam said:


> Ah, patience is a virtue my friend :0)
> 
> That's odd - I don't remember them being bundled with my ZST. Anyone know if they're supposed to be bundled with the carbon fiber/black ones, the blue/purple ones, or both?



hahaha NICE i just got them and opened the box and indeed ZST(blue purple) do include one pair. Win Win.


----------



## Slater (Sep 29, 2019)

I dug out my ATE and did the open grille + nozzle port closing mod.

It took less than 15 minutes to do the whole project.

 1. Pop case apart by very gently squeezing the seam between the 2 halves of the shell with vice grips.
 2. Cut desired hole with Dremel. Remove any burs (I used an X-acto knife and gently went around the hole, chamfering/deburring the sharp edge on both sides). 
 3. Rip mesh screens from broken 10 year old apple earbuds.
 4. Trim screen with scissors & glue into ATE. Do not use super glue, as it will craze and fog up the inside of the plastic. Use something like 2-part epoxy (applied with a toothpick) or Lazer Bond.



 Why did KZ not release a version with this configuration? These are solid audio gold, and KZ is the King of the 'release-a-new-IEM-weekly'. I figured they'd have been all over this like white on rice.

 I like the sound of these modded ATE so much, I have a pair of ATE-S on the way, as those are supposed to have different drivers (not sure though).


----------



## harry501501

slaterlovesspam said:


> I know this is welcome to 2015, but I finally dug out my ATE and did the open grille + flange port closing mod.
> 
> wOwSeRz!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haven't you been reading, the KZ sets are not made of solid gold. Jeez!


----------



## ayao

b9scrambler said:


> Chill bro. No one here thinks they're made of gold (I hope...). Brass and Gold can also be used to describe colors
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I always stuck with shiny and dull/moldy (it goes green over time) haha


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> ​ hahaha NICE i just got them and opened the box and indeed ZST(blue purple) do include one pair. Win Win.


 
  
 Your lucky day!
  
 Let us know how you like the ATR. I'm very curious what your impressions are.
  
 Did you get the KZ silver plated cable for the ZST? It makes the ZS3 sound niiiice, and no more microphonics! I need to pick one up for my ZST because I liked it so much on the ZS3.


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> Oh wow. We hear these VERY differently, lmao! I'm 100% on board with the original ZS1 and maybe the ED3 if you're referring to the C version (red or blue model). The original silver ED3 is pretty bass-lite. The ZN1 Mini, EDse, and ED9 (gold filters) all have boosted bass, but the ZS1 shames them in my experience.


 
  
 Hey, after your comment, I decided to get out my ED9 to compare them to the ZS1 again. Maybe I was not remembering things clearly. Sure enough, the ES9 destroys. However, it dawned on me that I had modded the ED9 way back when I first got it. I had replaced the foam in the gold tubes with a generous helping of fiberfill, and (more importantly) I completely sealed the vents in the rear with glue. I had completely forgot that I had done those mods, as it was a long time ago and I don't listen to the ED9 that often.
  
 So if you are a basshead and have a pair of ED9, take 10 seconds out of your busy life and put a piece of tape over the rear grilles and try them out (especially with Starline tips as they add the maximum bass). Even if you leave the stock foam inserts in the gold tubes, sealing off the rear grilles will make your head rattle. This is my default test song to evaluate bass modifications (not the best resolution on YouTube, but enough to give you an idea. A high-res version slays, especially starting around 1:40):
  

  
 The fiberfill knocks down the uber brightness more than the foam inserts did (I just swapped the stock foam inserts back in to verify).


----------



## Slater

zabunny94 said:


> I have both the ed3 and ed3m and I can vouch that they're sounds different from each other, ed3 is more brighter and more dryer close to ed9 with brass. But i guess they're using the same driver but the different lengths of nozzle and housing material may the one that cause the sound difference. Cmiiw


 
  
 Good to know. Glad I have the ED3M then. Not a fan of the ED9 with brass tube. Way too bright for my ears.
  
 I wonder how the ED3C and "Acme" version compare? Anyone have any details on these models?


----------



## kokakolia

ayao said:


> I always stuck with shiny and dull/moldy (it goes green over time) haha


 
 That's just perfect. No confusion here. 
  
 shiny or dull.


----------



## Slater

ayao said:


> I always stuck with shiny and dull/moldy (it goes green over time) haha


 
  
 Green must be the copper in the alloy oxidizing.
  
 Weird. Mine never turned green. But then again, I only use the 24k solid gold flanges. The dull brass/copper flanges stayed in their box, so they're not exposed to the elements to where they'll oxidize.


----------



## MUSICCURE

Been buying quite a few iem's lately

I bought the ibasso it03 for the upgrade and a few kz iem's out curiosity including the ZST.

I came away enjoying the ZST sound the most and was surprised how well it sounded on my Cowon PM2. Love the extension, soundstage, and the ZST's ability to place sounds in the right place to my ears. OOTB the synergy was obvious. Comfort worked best with large tips for me.


----------



## vegetaleb

Can anyone compare the ZS3 with Xiaomi hybrid Pro or Pro HD?
 I have the ZS3 but find them a bit too bassy, would the xiaomi iem give me less bass and better mids/soundstage?


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Your lucky day!
> 
> Let us know how you like the ATR. I'm very curious what your impressions are.
> 
> Did you get the KZ silver plated cable for the ZST? It makes the ZS3 sound niiiice, and no more microphonics! I need to pick one up for my ZST because I liked it so much on the ZS3.



Although im more of neutral sound guy SO far the ATR sound bassless to me. Maybe some BI time and they will shine the separation is fantastic though. I did not get the cable. I might later on if M noise annoys me. I wonder if the starline tips will fill in the bass? I have the ED9 that i got last week. The bright tips i wonder if the starline can fill in the bass? Ill try the ZST later to see the hype.


----------



## Caipirina

Found that the ATR is one of the few KZs not in my collection yet, and I still have Gearbest points to burn (I read somewhere they expire end of the month), so I ordered them for 3.05$ shipped  now the wait begins ...


----------



## DaNkO7

vegetaleb said:


> Can anyone compare the ZS3 with Xiaomi hybrid Pro or Pro HD?
> I have the ZS3 but find them a bit too bassy, would the xiaomi iem give me less bass and better mids/soundstage?




I have all of them...
I would consider the Hybrid Pro (Gen 4) muddier and as bassy as the ZS3.

The Pro HD (Gen 5) will have better soundstage and less bass without the port mod. although it could get silbant with some high frequencies.


----------



## vegetaleb

danko7 said:


> I have all of them...
> I would consider the Hybrid Pro (Gen 4) muddier and as bassy as the ZS3.
> 
> The Pro HD (Gen 5) will have better soundstage and less bass without the port mod. although it could get silbant with some high frequencies.


 
  
 I would take the gen 5 then, I want something less bassy than ZS3, but why is it 10$ more expensive? (I hope it will drop like KZs during AE Anniversary)
 What do you mean by ''port mod''?


----------



## Vidal

vegetaleb said:


> I would take the gen 5 then, I want something less bassy than ZS3, but why is it 10$ more expensive? (I hope it will drop like KZs during AE Anniversary)
> What do you mean by ''port mod''?


 
  
 It's $10 more expensive because it's got better build quality and it's a dual dynamic hybrid not a single dynamic hybrid compared to the gen 4.


----------



## DaNkO7

vegetaleb said:


> I would take the gen 5 then, I want something less bassy than ZS3, but why is it 10$ more expensive? (I hope it will drop like KZs during AE Anniversary)
> What do you mean by ''port mod''?




It's basically putting tape on the vent hole to add more bass to the iem. 

The gen4 has 2 1DD+1BA where the gen5 has 2DD+1BA. I guess that's why it's more expensive...


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Although im more of neutral sound guy SO far the ATR sound bassless to me. Maybe some BI time and they will shine the separation is fantastic though. I did not get the cable. I might later on if M noise annoys me. I wonder if the starline tips will fill in the bass? I have the ED9 that i got last week. The bright tips i wonder if the starline can fill in the bass? Ill try the ZST later to see the hype.


 
  
 That sounds kind of similar to the ATE. In stock form, they were designed to be fairly neutral, good soundstage, and light on the bass. They have to be modded to get them to really fill in the bottom end and shine. Modded, they remind me a lot of the port-modded Xiaomi Pro HD. The Pro HD are superior though, although the fitment of the ATE allows it to stay in for hours, where the Pro HD is always trying to work it's way loose in 1 of my ears (I think my left canal is smaller than my right). My plan is to encapsulate the Pro HD in custom molded thermoplastic to get it to stay put.
  
 As far as the Starlines, that's one of the things they were designed for (as indicated by the text in this KZ photo):
  

  
 Starlines have improved the bass (and comfort) on everything I've used them on, from the ATE to the ED9 to the Pro HD. I put them on everything that they'll fit on.


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Can anyone compare the ZS3 with Xiaomi hybrid Pro or Pro HD?
> I have the ZS3 but find them a bit too bassy, would the xiaomi iem give me less bass and better mids/soundstage?


 
  
 If that's what you're after, then yes you'll love the Pro HD. Some find them sibilant. If you do the port mod, then it gets rid of the sibilance and tightens up the bass.
  
 The port mod involves covering the front port (on the black plastic part near the eartip flange is) with tape, glue, etc. You leave the rear port (in the aluminum) alone.
  
 Pro HD are also insertion sensitive. They sit very shallow, but you'll get much infinitely better sound with a deeper insertion. This can be achieved by changing out the tips to something that allows deeper insertion (like KZ Starlines) or a more sealed fit (memory foam/Comply/DIY silicone & foam hybrid tips), and by also swapping sides (ie using right side in the left ear and left side in right ear, and pointing them up with the cabled running over and behind the ear). Doing that makes them sound out of this world, and a ridiculously shocking value for the $23 asking price.


----------



## actorlife

actorlife said:


> ​hahaha NICE i just got them and opened the box and indeed ZST(blue purple) do include one pair. Win Win.





actorlife said:


> ​hahaha NICE i just got them and opened the box and indeed ZST(blue purple) do include one pair. Win Win.



The AST are amazing and look musician pro for the price. The bass is there and not overwhelming. Vocals are clear and cymbals are Crystal clear. No sibilance detected unless recorded as such. Audio fans get a pair NOW. The ATR look like they need break in time. Its a bit bassless although they are clear. Mmm hmm. Oh haha pink noise. The ed9 does not have that screeching sound after 2 days of music/pink noise it was irritating when i got them. KZ rulz. High 5.


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## VShaft

Just for the sake of curiosity, how do you modders *know* what to mod? Is there a set rule to the process (like, doing A will have effect B), or do you go around plugging random holes and such and hope for the best?


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> The ed9 does not have that screeching sound after 2 days of music/pink noise it was irritating when i got them. KZ rulz. High 5.


 
  
 Yeah, I know burn-in is a debated topic. But I'm in the 'what can it hurt so no reason not to' camp. I personally have nothing but good experience with burn-in. It's tamed a number of my IEMs and headphones.


----------



## Slater

vshaft said:


> Just for the sake of curiosity, how do you modders *know* what to mod? Is there a set rule to the process (like, doing A will have effect B), or do you go around plugging random holes and such and hope for the best?


 
 Depends on if you're the pioneering type.
  
 There aren't any set rules per se, but as you get more comfortable doing it, you'll find that many of the principles apply (and these same principles apply to full size and car audio as well). Stiffer cabinet materials, enclosure filling, dampening with absorption materials, port tuning, etc.
  
 Personally, I do 1 of 3 things:
  
 1. Wait for more experienced members whom I either trust or I know have similar sound signature tastes as me to develop/test out mod first. Many of these people are in the audio business and often have fancy testing equipment to validate the results of the mod testing.
 2. If I get something that I am not happy with the sound signature, or it was cheap enough, then I try some mods to change the sound signature to something more to my liking.
 3. Wait until multiple people have tried a mod and there is a general consensus as to the change.
  
 Many mods are easy to try and only take seconds - taping off 1 or more ports, pad rolling, tip rolling, removing felt covers (which can be taped back if you don't like the change), quarter mods to foam pads, and changing to a better cable (on units with removable cables). And most full size headphones are only held together by a few screws, making them easy to try out a little fiberfill, or peel and stick on a layer of Dynamat or acoustic foam mat. Also, not all mods are acoustic - I always tweak the clamping force on full size headphones to make them more comfortable and increase the length of listening sessions. Often I adjust the amount of headband padding to correct weird pressure points and improve comfort.
  
 I'm much less apt to perform more advanced/permanent mods - cutting holes in housings to make them open, swapping drivers, or adding resistors to increase impedance - unless there's a really good reason to or it's a result of #1 or #3 above.
  
 The general argument is often 'omg everything is carefully designed by engineers and how can you know more than them?' Well, everything is designed with compromises - cost compromises, form over function (good looks but uncomfortable), model lineup compromises (we don't want model x to be too much competition with model y), material compromises (thin plastic or cheap crappy cables for example). And products are tuned to a particular sound or particular target audience, which may or not match my preference. So I can use mods to more closely match what I like. For example, I like an airy sound with big soundstage (who doesn't), but tight, warm, and powerful bass. But those features aren't always present together - open headphones generally lack bass, and closed headphones generally sound compressed and closed in. But even in those cases you can do things to tweak the sound to be more your liking.
  
 There's no free lunch though - as you change one thing, you always change something else. Making changes to bass may affect mid range. Reducing sibilance may lose clarity and sparkle. You may get that monster bass but it may turn muddy. I've undone mods because I wasn't willing to accept the compromise of whatever it changed, so in those cases I may relegate that particular IEM/headphone to a particular musical genre or even movies or gaming only.
  
 You'd also be shocked at the detuning manufacturers do because of product lineup compromises. A perfect example is the Sennheiser HD558 and HD598. It's literally the same headphone, same drivers and shells. The only difference is a few $0.50 strips of foam inside the housings, yet one is 50% higher in cost. Sennheiser can have more offerings at multiple price points, and lower models won't step on the toes of their higher model (and higher retail) siblings. Auto manufacturers are experts at this, and often the only thing between 2 marques at very different price points is $20 in badges - the rest is all marketing.


----------



## vegetaleb

slaterlovesspam said:


> That sounds kind of similar to the ATE. In stock form, they were designed to be fairly neutral, good soundstage, and light on the bass. They have to be modded to get them to really fill in the bottom end and shine. Modded, they remind me a lot of the port-modded Xiaomi Pro HD. The Pro HD are superior though, although the fitment of the ATE allows it to stay in for hours, where the Pro HD is always trying to work it's way loose in 1 of my ears (I think my left canal is smaller than my right). My plan is to encapsulate the Pro HD in custom molded thermoplastic to get it to stay put.
> 
> As far as the Starlines, that's one of the things they were designed for (as indicated by the text in this KZ photo):
> 
> ...


 
  
 These starlines will make ZS3 bass less boomy?


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> These starlines will make ZS3 bass less boomy?


 
  
 I don't remember on mine, but I could have sworn the Starlines CAME on the ZS3. So if the ZS3 is too bassy for you, I wouldn't ADD Starlines. I would try memory foam/Comply tips, which will knock down some of the bass.
  
 The ZS3 is definitely one of the bassiest IEMs KZ makes though. So if you aren't a fan of their big sub bass, I'd consider the ATE or ATR. They have an airy sound, excellent soundstage, juicy midrange, and sparkly shimmering highs. Bass is tight, but waaay less boom compared to the ZS3.
  
 HDS2 and HDS3 is also really smooth and refined.


----------



## vegetaleb

slaterlovesspam said:


> I don't remember on mine, but I could have sworn the Starlines CAME on the ZS3. So if the ZS3 is too bassy for you, I wouldn't ADD Starlines. I would try memory foam/Comply tips, which will knock down some of the bass.
> 
> The ZS3 is definitely one of the bassiest IEMs KZ makes though. So if you aren't a fan of their big sub bass, I'd consider the ATE or ATR. They have an airy sound, excellent soundstage, juicy midrange, and sparkly shimmering highs. Bass is tight, but waaay less boom compared to the ZS3.
> 
> HDS2 and HDS3 is also really smooth and refined.


 
  
 I have the ATES because I wnated a memory wire, dunno why all memory wires models are bassy with KZ : ZS1,ZS2,ZS3 and ATES


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## zabunny94

vegetaleb said:


> These starlines will make ZS3 bass less boomy?




Try to get eartips with wide bore like kz whirlwind if you want a less boomier bass. That is like the rule of thumb of iem


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## Slater

```

```



zabunny94 said:


> Try to get eartips with wide bore like kz whirlwind if you want a less boomier bass. That is like the rule of thumb of iem




Good point. I was just coming back to add that to my post & you beat me to it LOL.


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## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> I have the ATES because I wnated a memory wire, dunno why all memory wires models are bassy with KZ : ZS1,ZS2,ZS3 and ATES


 

 Interesting point. Their memory wire models are all pretty bassy (ZN1 was too).

 The ATE-S is supposedly much bassier than the regular ATE (I just ordered some ATE-S for that exact reason).

 Have you tried silicone wire guides? They are only a buck or 2, and can be added to any IEMs. Not the same as memory wires, but they do a great job for what they are.
  

  
 One model you could also try is the W1 Pro. I am not home, so I can't verify that it has memory wires or not, but I seem to remember it does. It's also very light in the bass department, has a nice removable cable, and a custom IEM shell design like the ZS3/ZST.

 Update: Ok, scratch that. I just searched and while it does have a memory wire, apparently they revised the model and the currently available W1 Pro is more bass heavy & less balanced than the original version.

 At this point, the ED9 with the brass tube would be my recommendation.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

slaterlovesspam said:


> I don't remember on mine, but I could have sworn the Starlines CAME on the ZS3. So if the ZS3 is too bassy for you, I wouldn't ADD Starlines. I would try memory foam/Comply tips, which will knock down some of the bass.
> 
> The ZS3 is definitely one of the bassiest IEMs KZ makes though. So if you aren't a fan of their big sub bass, I'd consider the ATE or ATR. They have an airy sound, excellent soundstage, juicy midrange, and sparkly shimmering highs. Bass is tight, but waaay less boom compared to the ZS3.
> 
> HDS2 and HDS3 is also really smooth and refined.




I am 99.99% sure my ZS3s did not come with starline tips. Will go fetch the box, brb...

Nope, only the translucent gray ones similar to my ATRs and the gray ones with a red bore that come installed.


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## Slater

sometechnoob said:


> I am 99.99% sure my ZS3s did not come with starline tips. Will go fetch the box, brb...
> 
> Nope, only the translucent gray ones similar to my ATRs and the gray ones with a red bore that come installed.


 
  
 Gotcha. No clue where I 1st got the Startlines then. The grey/red ones seem to be their goto model - they put it on just about everything. I have a box full of them!


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## Slater (Jun 1, 2018)

So in the exploded photos of the EDSE, KZ shows the grille like it's wide open. But this is a flat out lie. The grille is for show only, and there's only a single pinhole-sized vent in the rear of the housing.



Well, what happens when we remove the 'fake' grille and turn it into the real deal? I've been wondering this since the 1st day I found out the grille was just for show (the grille easily lifts off with tweezers or an xacto knife). I had no idea what it would sound like once opened, or even what was directly behind the metal back since it's all closed off and you can't see the layout inside. All I had to go by was the exploded diagram, but it didn't show any of the wiring. I was honestly assuming I'd destroy the thing by driving a drill bit right into the driver or wiring. Or that it would sound like crap and there was some reason why it was sealed up despite the diagrams showing it wide open. Although if I didn't like how it sounded opened up, I could always just seal it back up with a metal/wood disc to put it back the way it was.

Well not only was I surprised by how well it worked, but I was even more surprised by how it sounded.

Here's what I ended up with:



If you do this mod, be very careful and go very slow. The back of the EDSE is crazy thick - like 3mm, and takes a while to grind out. The aluminum gets hot, so you have to keep taking breaks to let things cool down. I alternated to the other side while the side I just ground on was cooling down (so grind the left, stop when hot and grind the right side while the left cools, then repeat until you're done). I used small drill bits on a Dremel (no way would I use a drill), and kept stepping up to larger drill bits. Then I switched to carbide grinding burrs. The key is to just drill & cut through the metal and stop before hitting the wires coming up and out of the strain relief. There's 2.5-3mm of space between when you pierce through the metal and when you hit the wires. So when you detect that you have almost pierced through the metal, you have to ease off on the pressure so when you punch through you can pull back out to prevent hitting the wires.

Once I was done, I blew all of the little bits of aluminum dust out with my mouth, but you can also use a can of compressed air.

Leave a little edge so the stock mesh has something to sit on. The stock mesh is held on by an adhesive, but it's pretty weak and was kind of dried up, so I just used a few specks of epoxy on the edge around the grille (applied with a toothpick), let it dry, and it's good to go.

Here's what I've noticed:

1. In the stock EDSE, the midrange sometimes comes across as slightly thin and compressed. With the mod, the mids sound rich and full. The compressed feel is gone, with the difference sounding like changing the Stereo Width (in Rockbox or similar) from 100% to 125%. Midrange sounds more 'complete' and thicker if that makes any sense.

2. The mids are recessed in the stock version, and the modded version makes them much less recessed.

3. Separation is improved. With the stock version, male vocals were often bleeding with drums, which was very distracting. That is really improved now, with clearer separation where it was bleeding together before.

4. There was decent bass in the stock EDSE, but bass sounds better in the modded version, both quantity and quality. Kick drums sound like your head is 2 feet away - you can feel the vibration, where you didn't get that same feeling before. It's not boomy, but clean and punchy.

5. Soundstage is improved slightly with the mod.

EDM sounds amazing - the music feels like it's being played directly in your head. I've always liked the ED-based models - good sound, comfortable fit, effortless insertion, and quality construction.

The stock EDSE is no slouch, and is a very good representation of a "typical" KZ v-shaped IEM. However, modded it sounds cleaner, crisper, and just plain more fun overall. All and all, a very worthwhile mod to such an inexpensive IEM.


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## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Although im more of neutral sound guy SO far the ATR sound bassless to me. Maybe some BI time and they will shine the separation is fantastic though. I did not get the cable. I might later on if M noise annoys me. I wonder if the starline tips will fill in the bass? I have the ED9 that i got last week. The bright tips i wonder if the starline can fill in the bass? Ill try the ZST later to see the hype.


 yeah give some bi time to really shine the sound, at first it sound bassless but in end it will shine and give that nice tight rumble bass.


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## Mus1c

vegetaleb said:


> Can anyone compare the ZS3 with Xiaomi hybrid Pro or Pro HD?
> I have the ZS3 but find them a bit too bassy, would the xiaomi iem give me less bass and better mids/soundstage?


 i dont have hd pro but zst is right choice for you if want that massive sound stage, less bass,better mids and treble.


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## Mus1c

vegetaleb said:


> I have the ATES because I wnated a memory wire, dunno why all memory wires models are bassy with KZ : ZS1,ZS2,ZS3 and ATES


you can use this as a option to full fill your need.


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## vegetaleb

mus1c said:


> you can use this as a option to full fill your need.


 
  
 Yeah I tried them on my HTC 10 HiRes bundled earphones but the cable keep going out and it won't give the tight fit of a memory wires, though I have found that even the ZS3's memory wire can be irritable after 3 hours of ski.
 I will have to give these ear guides a second chance


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## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Yeah I tried them on my HTC 10 HiRes bundled earphones but the cable keep going out and it won't give the tight fit of a memory wires, though I have found that even the ZS3's memory wire can be irritable after 3 hours of ski.
> I will have to give these ear guides a second chance


 
  
 You can carefully remove the memory wires (if they're too uncomfortable) on most any KZ IEM. It's just a thin bendy wire inside some heat shrunk tubing. Just gotta be careful you don't cut into the main headphone wires.
  
 I found what is more comfortable than the memory wires are the little weights, like KZ used on the original ATE (not ATE-S):
  

  
 They aren't as effective as memory wires, but they still work well & can be worn for hours with none of the comfort issues that come with memory wires.
  
 I wish they used it on more models instead of the memory wires. Or that there was a way to add them to existing IEMs without requiring that the wires be removed. It wouldn't be hard to design something that snaps together like a ferrite bead:


----------



## plazzo

vegetaleb said:


> Can anyone compare the ZS3 with Xiaomi hybrid Pro or Pro HD?
> I have the ZS3 but find them a bit too bassy, would the xiaomi iem give me less bass and better mids/soundstage?




I add my request to this. I have been looking at xiaomis but still not sure if KZs would be better


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## Slater

plazzo said:


> I add my request to this. I have been looking at xiaomis but still not sure if KZs would be better


 
  
 Which KZ model are you considering? The ZS3?
  
 It all depends on what you prefer. What are you driving it with (phone, DAP, headphone amp or not)? What genres of music do you like? Are you a basshead? Will you be working out or playing sports with them? What kind of isolation do you need (both from the standpoint of external noises leaking in and from music leaking to your outside environment)? Do you own any full size headphones that you really like, and if so what is the model so we can recommend an IEM with a similar sound signature?
  
 KZ makes a number of really nice IEMs, and the Pro HD is superb. But there are differences in both design, build, and sound that may matter to you. I own about 15 different KZ IEMs (many modded to improve various things), as well as the Pro HDs and other brands. They all sound a little different and have different qualities in design, comfort, build quality, etc.


----------



## plazzo

slaterlovesspam said:


> Which KZ model are you considering? The ZS3?
> 
> It all depends on what you prefer. What are you driving it with (phone, DAP, headphone amp or not)? What genres of music do you like? Are you a basshead? Will you be working out or playing sports with them? What kind of isolation do you need (both from the standpoint of external noises leaking in and from music leaking to your outside environment)? Do you own any full size headphones that you really like, and if so what is the model so we can recommend an IEM with a similar sound signature?
> 
> KZ makes a number of really nice IEMs, and the Pro HD is superb. But there are differences in both design, build, and sound that may matter to you. I own about 15 different KZ IEMs (many modded to improve various things), as well as the Pro HDs and other brands. They all sound a little different and have different qualities in design, comfort, build quality, etc.




I find KZs catalog a bit big for my brain, i feel confused seeing so many models but seeems that KZ ZS3 and KZ ZST to be the most secure buys according to many opinions I have seen lately here.
I am not a big fan of full size headphones but I do own a few, I am recently enjoying the Superlux HD668B.

As for iems I would prefer something versatile that can be used as a daily companion and for some sports if wanted too.


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## Slater

Ok, that's very helpful.

668B are excellent headphones. Sound is very neutral.

Do you wish they had more bass, or do they have just enough for your tastes? What about the treble - is the treble too shrill and overwhelming sometimes, so you like the real bright sound?

And which genres of music do you like?

I can think of a few recommendations that should suit you once you reply with a little more info.


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## plazzo

Bass seems good to me... i like their highs but would prefer them to be a bit less torturing at times

Genres would be very mixed i listen to every type of music


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## Slater

OK, that's helpful.
  
 You're going to find the Xiaomi Pro HDs bright and piercing at times too. I wouldn't recommend them. The KZ ZS3 have pretty boosted bass.
  
 I would go with either the Rock Zircon (also known as the Rock Zircon Nano), the ATE or ATE-S (ATE-S have a little stronger bass than the ATE, but they are both excellent), or the blue/purple (not the black/carbon) KZ ZST.
  
 Be aware that the ZST are large and bulky, and take a minute to put in properly. The ATE-S is kind of the same story as the ZST (bulky), and they have memory wires (which not everyone is a fan of memory wires). Both the ZST and ATE/ATE-S look very serious and "professional" if that matters to you. The Zircons are ridiculously compact (just stick them in and go), comfortable, very well built, and sound fantastic. They're a fluke though - everything else Rock makes sounds terrible.
  
 There are other KZs that are awesome, but they require some simple modifications to really sound out of this world. You can't go wrong with any one of those listed, and they are all ready to go out of the box. The only other thing that would be helpful is a few different styles of tips ($5 total investment to cover the different tip styles). I'm not talking about S-M-L tips. I'm talking about different styles of tips. Just by changing the tips you can not only get a better seal/fit but they will allow you to change the sound.
  
 I think I have 2 or 3 pairs of IEMs that have the factory tips they came with. Every other pair has been improved in one way or another by switching around the tips.


----------



## VShaft

Thanks @slaterlovesspam for the extensive and informative post on modding on the previous page!
  
 Personally I've tried only the most simple mods, namely the taping of vent holes, and of course changing tips (which I don't really consider modding). While I detected slight sound changes with tip rolling, I haven't found a discernible notice with tape mods on the few KZ models I own (ZS2, ATE-S, ZS3) - soundwise. I did find I had driver flex on the ATE-S with the vent-hole taped over. My personal "flagship" IEM, the PMV A-01 Mk. II, also showed no discernible sound changes with taping.
  
 I only did very short, 1-minute testing, didn't even try all the permutations with multiple vent holes on some IEMs. It wasn't that interesting to me at all.
  
 But serious pro modding must be fun, especially building custom housings, but I haven't the knowledge or equipment to start fiddling with something like that.


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## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> OK, that's helpful.
> 
> You're going to find the Xiaomi Pro HDs bright and piercing at times too. I wouldn't recommend them. The KZ ZS3 have pretty boosted bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Rock Zircons are bass canons devoid of mid range. Personally I think they're the most overhyped earphone that's been mentioned on Headfi. Also I know a lot of people have been complaining about the cable failing on the microphone side. For the price there are so many better options.
  
 Sonically there are *no *differences between the carbon and Colorful ZSTs but the ZSTs are brighter than the Xiamoi HD Pros.
  
@plazzo I've reviewed +60 ChiFi earphones on my website you might want to take a look at my profile to get a link. It might help you pick out some contenders that you'll be interested in before narrowing it down with impression from people on the forum.


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## Slater

vidal said:


> Sonically there are *no *differences between the carbon and Colorful ZSTs but the ZSTs are brighter than the Xiamoi HD Pros.


 
  
 That's odd, my ZSTs had balanced mids and highs, and were nowhere near as bright as my HD Pros. Cinder's review (http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zst-in-ear-earphone-latest-hifi-sports-hi-fi-headphones-with-noise-cancelling-and-mic-replacement-cable-with-mic/reviews/17815) reflects the same impression I had with the ZST. Perhaps Cinder and myself just got lucky? There are definitely QC variations in KZ units - I've had channel imbalances, bad/disconnected BA drivers, and one ATE that was completely covered in rust inside like it sat in seawater.
  
 As far as the different ZSTs, I've read in more than one place about differences in the carbon vs purple ZSTs. I'll see if I can find exactly where I saw that, but here's a link with talk of it from a few HF members (http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/13350#post_13003728). KZ has often made tweaks to models without publicizing it. The ATE has at least 4 variations (not the ATR or ATE-S either) - different drivers, vent port tweaks, cabling differences.
  
 I'm with you on the narrowing it down advice. Ask 100 different people and you're going to get 100 different opinions.
  
 I checked out your site too - I like your approach to reviewing. It's been 20 years since I studied statistics, so I forget the name of the type of graph you use to plot the weighted results.


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## Slater

vshaft said:


> Thanks @slaterlovesspam for the extensive and informative post on modding on the previous page!
> 
> I only did very short, 1-minute testing, didn't even try all the permutations with multiple vent holes on some IEMs. It wasn't that interesting to me at all.
> 
> But serious pro modding must be fun, especially building custom housings, but I haven't the knowledge or equipment to start fiddling with something like that.


 
  
 Thanks. You're right about the uninteresting part - it can be very boring and tedious, often for worse results than when you started. But it's definitely rewarding when you can turn a $30 pair of headphones into something that sounds better than most $100 pairs. Sometimes all you need to do is stuff some rolled up kleenex under the pad or peel off a layer of felt to get noticeable improvements. IEMs are definitely harder to work on due to the sheer size of things.
  
 As far as equipment, a Dremel tool and a soldering iron will get you most of the way there. The people that turn new wooden driver cups on a lathe or 3D print new parts are in a whole other league. Maybe someday.


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## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's odd, my ZSTs had balanced mids and highs, and were nowhere near as bright as my HD Pros. Cinder's review (http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zst-in-ear-earphone-latest-hifi-sports-hi-fi-headphones-with-noise-cancelling-and-mic-replacement-cable-with-mic/reviews/17815) reflects the same impression I had with the ZST. Perhaps Cinder and myself just got lucky? There are definitely QC variations in KZ units.
> 
> As far as the different ZSTs, I've read in more than one place about differences in the carbon vs purple ZSTs.


 
  
 The initial ZST *were* tuned differently, this led people to believe there was a difference between the colours as the early ones were only available in carbon. Feedback on early ZST wasn't favourable so it was re-tuned, although nothing confirmed by KZ, but that tuning applied to both colours. The chance of getting a pre-tuning version would be small if you buy them from a recognised seller such as Gearbest.
  
 My ZSTs (new tuning) are definitely brighter than my HD Pros, I am using the same eartips for consistency of seal in my ears. It's not a criticism of the sound mind I prefer bright.
  
 Thanks for the feedback, I'm not sure what the graph is called either TBH, I've heard web graph used. I've saw them used elsewhere (not in audio) so I stole the idea, no point in reinventing the wheel


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## Slater

Thanks for clearing that up. Glad I have the whole story now.

I see you had favorable impressions of the MEMT X5 and the KZ HDS3. I like them both (especially the X5, which I just recently acquired). For the low cost, I think the HDS3 is very underrated. No one seems to recommend it or talk about it much. It does very well with more power from a headphone amp too, as it seems to struggle in the loudness department.


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## vegetaleb

I think I am gonna keep using the ZS3 
*But anyone can help me mod the mic button to make it more sensitive?*
 I have to press the button all the way down very hard to make it work, with my ATES I don't have this problem


----------



## Mus1c

vegetaleb said:


> I think I am gonna keep using the ZS3
> *But anyone can help me mod the mic button to make it more sensitive?*
> I have to press the button all the way down very hard to make it work, with my ATES I don't have this problem


 maybe some qc issue i don't think you can mod the mic to make it work unless you buy a new one.


----------



## actorlife

Anyone find the ATR a bit low in volume? Not alot certainly compared to the other KZ's I have though a bit lower. Perhaps after some pink noise it will straighten up. Out the box the AST sound is amazing. I think it's the best of the bunch along with the ATE of course I dont have the ZS3, yet. Latin, Soul, Funk, Rock, Jazz And Pop. Sure. 

Thus far:
ZST
ATE
ED9
ATR


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> For the low cost, I think the HDS3 is very underrated. No one seems to recommend it or talk about it much. It does very well with more power from a headphone amp too, as it seems to struggle in the loudness department.


 
  
 Agree, there's quite a few KZs that appear to have been overlooked with the recent releases. I'd rate the HDS3, ZN1 mini, EDR2 and the QKZ DM200 which is almost a retuned ATR all as being respectable earphones. I use a Cozoy Aegis with my iPhone/Android tablet so there's no shortage of power when it comes to driving earphones.


----------



## Mellowship

slaterlovesspam said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. Glad I have the whole story now.
> 
> I see you had favorable impressions of the MEMT X5 and the KZ HDS3. I like them both (especially the X5, which I just recently acquired). For the low cost, I think the HDS3 is very underrated. No one seems to recommend it or talk about it much. It does very well with more power from a headphone amp too, as it seems to struggle in the loudness department.




I have the hds3. Don't like them, though. Gave them to my wife, she takes them to the gym with her sansa clip. I admit they are sturdy, they've been gettin quite a pounding!


----------



## Slater

vidal said:


> Agree, there's quite a few KZs that appear to have been overlooked with the recent releases. I'd rate the HDS3, ZN1 mini, EDR2 and the QKZ DM200 which is almost a retuned ATR all as being respectable earphones. I use a Cozoy Aegis with my iPhone/Android tablet so there's no shortage of power when it comes to driving earphones.


 
  
 Yeah, I was going to say - the DM200 looks identical to the ATE/ATR, with different strain reliefs, Starline tips, and solid colored housings (instead of ATE translucent).
  
 Can you describe the tuning differences on the DM200 vs ATE or ATR?


----------



## Slater

mellowship said:


> I have the hds3. Don't like them, though. Gave them to my wife, she takes them to the gym with her sansa clip. I admit they are sturdy, they've been gettin quite a pounding!


 
  
 The HDS series in general seemed kind of polarizing - I think a lot of people gave up after the HDS2.
  
 Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about them?
  
 I have all 3 in the series (HDS1, 2, and 3), and I definitely prefer the HDS3 out of the 3. They aren't in my daily rotation collection, but I do get them out when I just need a no nonsense micro IEM for grab and go beater purposes. Like you said, they're sturdy, don't require a storage case, no memory wires to deal with, no bulky housing like the Z series.
  
 They do have an odd size flange, and many tips fit OK enough to use, but are loose enough to fall right off when cleaning the tip.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Anyone find the ATR a bit low in volume? Not alot certainly compared to the other KZ's I have though a bit lower. Perhaps after some pink noise it will straighten up. Out the box the AST sound is amazing. I think it's the best of the bunch along with the ATE of course I dont have the ZS3, yet. Latin, Soul, Funk, Rock, Jazz And Pop. Sure.
> 
> Thus far:
> ZST
> ...


 yeah atr is lacking in volume just a litle bit but other than that the kz atr is perfect. Wat source do you use? Btw Just crank up the volume no problem.


----------



## RvTrav

​ I have the QKZ DM200 in black and KZ HD9 in white.  Other than colour they are both the same and sound the same.  I don't have the ATE but I do have the ATR and the DM200 and HD9 have more forwards mids and a tighter bass.  Personally I prefer the DM200 and HD9 to the ATR since I find them a more fun earphone.  The shell of the DM200 and HD9 is slightly different that the ATR.


----------



## Mellowship

slaterlovesspam said:


> The HDS series in general seemed kind of polarizing - I think a lot of people gave up after the HDS2.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 What I don't like about them... well, to me, they sound just like the hds1. Not flat or neutral, just.. dull. Nothing there really pulls you to the music. Never tried them with amplification, though.
 As for the tips, the only ones that seemed to work were the sony mh1c's, they stick in place and provide for good isolation.


----------



## Slater

rvtrav said:


> ​ I have the QKZ DM200 in black and KZ HD9 in white.  Other than colour they are both the same and sound the same.  I don't have the ATE but I do have the ATR and the DM200 and HD9 have more forwards mids and a tighter bass.  Personally I prefer the DM200 and HD9 to the ATR since I find them a more fun earphone.  The shell of the DM200 and HD9 is slightly different that the ATR.


 
  
 Interesting. QKZ DM200/KZ HD9 sounds a lot like the ATE-S (not literally 'sounds' as in audio noise but figuratively sounds as in 'from RvTrav's description' haha). I'd be very interested in hearing how those 2 compare. If they are different enough from the ATE-S, I'll pick up a set.


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> Interesting. QKZ DM200/KZ HD9 sounds a lot like the ATE-S. I'd be very interested in hearing how those 2 compare. If they are different enough from the ATE-S, I'll pick up a set.


 
  
 If ATE-S are on the warm side of the ATR then the DM200 are on the opposite side in terms of being more mid forward. Bass is less on the DM200s compared to ATR.
  
 I'm not a fan of too much warmth in an earphone so my preference would be: -
  
 1. DM200
 2. ATR
 3. ATE-S


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> I would go with either the Rock Zircon (also known as the Rock Zircon Nano), the ATE or ATE-S (ATE-S have a little stronger bass than the ATE, but they are both excellent), or the blue/purple (not the black/carbon) KZ ZST.
> 
> Be aware that the ZST are large and bulky, and take a minute to put in properly. The ATE-S is kind of the same story as the ZST (bulky), and they have memory wires (which not everyone is a fan of memory wires). Both the ZST and ATE/ATE-S look very serious and "professional" if that matters to you. The Zircons are ridiculously compact (just stick them in and go), comfortable, very well built, and sound fantastic. They're a fluke though - everything else Rock makes sounds terrible.



Dang look what you did. Im looking at that ROCK Zircon + Mula IEM thread. Argggg.  edit got the RZ better be good like my ZST. Why you SLS. Haha Ok ight waiting time along with ZS3.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Dang look what you did. Im looking at that ROCK Zircon + Mula IEM thread. Argggg.


 
  
 Sorry man - welcome to the crack addiction that is Head-Fi LOL
  
 I have no personal experience with the Mula, but be aware that there are reports that they are poop: https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=ROCK&id=Mula
  
 The Zircons are supposed to walk all over the Mulas. Besides the inferior sound, the Mula is reported to have QC/quality issues. And Vidal pointed out that the Zircon can be prone to flake out on the R side (w/microphone). Luckily I've never had any issues with my Zircons, but after reading about the Mula I certainly wouldn't take a risk on it. For the same price ($6) there are much better (and safer) options. I do like the Zircon for bass-heavy genres though (especially when factoring in comfort), despite them not being popular with some.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sorry man - welcome to the crack addiction that is Head-Fi LOL
> 
> I have no personal experience with the Mula, but be aware that there are reports that they are poop: https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=ROCK&id=Mula
> 
> The Zircons are supposed to walk all over the Mulas. Besides the inferior sound, the Mula is reported to have QC/quality issues. And Vidal pointed out that the Zircon can be prone to flake out on the R side (w/microphone). Luckily I've never had any issues with my Zircons, but after reading about the Mula I certainly wouldn't take a risk on it. For the same price ($6) there are much better (and safer) options. I do like the Zircon for bass-heavy genres though (especially when factoring in comfort), despite them not being popular with some.



Phew escaped the crank Mula. I like reading betwen the lines on your sentences bahaha. Got them a bit under 12 shipped. Yup i stayed away a long time damn KZ had to be good. Out of my cart Mula. Im addicted, WELL not really mostly fun to get affordable gear and invaluable advice. Merci


----------



## Slater

slaterlovesspam said:


> Interesting. QKZ DM200/KZ HD9 sounds a lot like the ATE-S. I'd be very interested in hearing how those 2 compare. If they are different enough from the ATE-S, I'll pick up a set.


 
  


vidal said:


> If ATE-S are on the warm side of the ATR then the DM200 are on the opposite side in terms of being more mid forward. Bass is less on the DM200s compared to ATR.
> 
> I'm not a fan of too much warmth in an earphone so my preference would be: -
> 
> ...


 
 OK, very helpful. I see how KZ's thought process in placed the DM200 where they did in the tuning lineup then. Good to know they didn't just change the housing color, model name, and sell them as a "Sport" model.
  
 I'll pick up a set next chance I have. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Phew escaped the crank Mula. I like reading betwen the lines on your sentences bahaha. Got them a bit under 12 shipped.


 
  
 Wait, you mean you got the Mula or Zircons for $12 shipped?


----------



## ahmadairfan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sorry man - welcome to the crack addiction that is Head-Fi LOL
> 
> I have no personal experience with the Mula, but be aware that there are reports that they are poop: https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=ROCK&id=Mula
> 
> The Zircons are supposed to walk all over the Mulas. Besides the inferior sound, the Mula is reported to have QC/quality issues. And Vidal pointed out that the Zircon can be prone to flake out on the R side (w/microphone). Luckily I've never had any issues with my Zircons, but after reading about the Mula I certainly wouldn't take a risk on it. For the same price ($6) there are much better (and safer) options. I do like the Zircon for bass-heavy genres though (especially when factoring in comfort), despite them not being popular with some.


 
 Just got my Zircons, can't believe they're that good lol.
 How's the sound compared to ATR? If its good enough I'll buy them it almost $4 local.


----------



## Slater

ahmadairfan said:


> Just got my Zircons, can't believe they're that good lol.
> How's the sound compared to ATR? If its good enough I'll buy them it almost $4 local.


 
  
 Did you get the white or black? I was just reading on the Zircon thread that the white and black sound different. I find it very hard to believe, but who knows. I'm ready to order a pair in the opposite color just to see for myself.


----------



## ahmadairfan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Did you get the white or black? I was just reading on the Zircon thread that the white and black sound different. I find it very hard to believe, but who knows. I'm ready to order a pair in the opposite color just to see for myself.


 
 Black ones. Yeah they said the white ones should be brighter sounding.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Small PSA: Gearbest seems to be having flash sales right now.  I think I'll pick up a ZST.  And maybe another ZS3.
  
 KZ ZST w/ mic @ 10.99 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
 KZ ZST Colorful w/ controls @ 11.99 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598798.html
 KZ ZS3 w/ controls @ 7.99 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html
 KZ ATR w/ mic @ 4.99 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_432000.html


----------



## gemmoglock

mus1c said:


> yeah atr is lacking in volume just a litle bit but other than that the kz atr is perfect. Wat source do you use? Btw Just crank up the volume no problem.


 
  
 Overdue opinion on this and in reply to @actorlife yes the ATR needs a bit of amping or a more powerful DAP. After switching from a Shanling M1 to my Fiio X1 II I find the bass is a bit more extended and defined, while soundstage also seems to become wider.
  
 Not too sure if just increasing the volume will help. Because while I tried that for the M1 the sound signature was really flat and smooth so that may be why the improvement wasn't much.
  
 The ATR goes fine on my X1 II at around 36-40/100.
  
 ATR is better for general listening as the ZS3 bass is a bit bloaty even with starline tips. However I do miss ZS3's energy and slightly more defined mid to upper register as my ZS3 has QC problems (intermittent audio).
  
 My daily is currently the Creative Aurvana In-Ear 3 as I got this dual-BA real cheap second hand, though bass is severely lacking. I have a Brainwavz B100 on the way and am not decided on whether to try the Mi Earphones Pro HD since I prefer overear designs.
  
 However if you can save up longer, I think a good DD endgame that isn't too expensive (ahem Mee Pinnacle P1 or Campfire Lyra II) is the ATH-E40. If you can stomach the clunky design it's a pretty good versatile DD that is more dynamic and less bassy/one-trick-pony as the more popular ATH-IM70/LS70 range. I may get it too as I always worry about reliability of Chi-Fi...


----------



## Slater

sometechnoob said:


> Small PSA: Gearbest seems to be having flash sales right now.  I think I'll pick up a ZST.  And maybe another ZS3.
> 
> KZ ZST w/ mic @ 10.99 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
> KZ ZST Colorful w/ controls @ 11.99 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_598798.html
> ...


 
  
 Aww, there's goes that crack addiction again....must....resist....


----------



## Slater

gemmoglock said:


> ATR is better for general listening as the ZS3 bass is a bit bloaty even with starline tips.


 
  
 No, the Starline tips ADD bass! If you want to lessen the bass, switch to wide nozzle tips like the KZ Turbos:


----------



## ahmadairfan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Aww, there's goes that crack addiction again....must....resist....


 
 There's no going back for this kind of things lol


----------



## Slater

ahmadairfan said:


> There's no going back for this kind of things lol


 
 haha, yeah
  
 Hey, what do you think of your W1 Pros?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

slaterlovesspam said:


> Aww, there's goes that crack addiction again....must....resist....




I gave in. Bought a second 1440p monitor to replace my 1080p one earlier today too. Rip wallet.


----------



## gemmoglock

slaterlovesspam said:


> No, the Starline tips ADD bass! If you want to lessen the bass, switch to wide nozzle tips like the KZ Turbos:


 
  
 Interesting, when I first was on this thread and buying my ZS3 I've been told the opposite... anyway now my ZS3 is unfortunately in bad shape so ATR with a bass boost is enough for me.

 Will be waiting to afford the ATH-E40 or Paiaudio MR3 if possible.


----------



## Slater

gemmoglock said:


> Interesting, when I first was on this thread and buying my ZS3 I've been told the opposite... anyway now my ZS3 is unfortunately in bad shape so ATR with a bass boost is enough for me.


 
  
 Negative Ghost Rider. Wide bore = less bass. Starlines = more bass
  
 KZ designed the Starline specifically to enhance bass. This is from their own marketing (read the text):
  

  
 Narrow bore enhances bass. Same reason they added the brass ring on the ZS1 (very bass-heavy):
  

  
 Gives new meaning to the words 'bass cannon', eh?


----------



## asegier

I just purchased the KZ ZST.  I originally tried it with the original cable with Mic.  I didn't really like the sound.  It was just a bit off for me, but afterwards I changed it to the KZ upgrade Silver plated cable and it was much much better.  I now really love the sound signature.  It's not too heavy on the bass for me, kind of just right.  I actually like these more then my Trinity Atlas (of which is also a Hybrid IEM.  But then again to be fair, I just don't like that sound signature so much).  I'm really surprised at how they can create such a nice sounding IEM for this price range.
  
 Also of note, I tend to have trouble with fit on my right ear for some reason, but my left is always really snug.  Because of this, I always have to use Comply Foam tips.  I wasn't sure how Comply would fit on these so I didn't buy any.  But the seller I purchased from had something called SpinFit from Taiwan, which he guaranteed would fit the KZ ZST.  I therefore ordered 2 pairs of SpinFit  (I got it for $3 USD per pair), and it works wonders.  It's the first time I've had a Silicone Ear Tip that actually fits me well.  The only other one was from Klipsch, but their oval tips only fit well if I didn't really move.  Once I started moving, they always wiggled out.  Others are even worst.  Even if I don't move they just slowly come out.
  
 Anyways, I highly recommend getting the KZ Upgrade Cable.  Without it, the IEM is a bit disappointing (though not at that price range... but I've come to expect quite a bit now...).
  
 I mainly use LEAR Custom IEMs as my daily (then I broke the cable, and went to look for a new one, and somehow stumbled on KZ).  I used the Klipsch S4i as my temporary, but now my KZ is kind of my daily (for now).  I'm really happy with my purchase, and this KZ really makes me feel like I don't really need to spend over $100 USD on a decent IEM that I can throw around.  (Mind you, I bought my Klipsch S4i for $13 USD though as well )
  
 I haven't gotten a chance to compare this IEM with any of my others though.  But it certainly doesn't compare to IEM's like the SE846 and the Westone UM Pro 50.  But that's to be expected.  What surprises me the most is that I personally feel like they perform as well as my Klipsch's, and actually not have as heavy a bass as it (which is good, I don't like that much bass).  I think having the BA driver inside the KZ helped in that regard for vocals.


----------



## Slater

Glad you're liking the silver upgrade cable. One member tested the stock cable and found it was very high resistance. Not sure why KZ used a poor quality cable on the stock ZS3 and ZST.
  
 Oh, and


----------



## ricemanhk

asegier said:


> I just purchased the KZ ZST.  I originally tried it with the original cable with Mic.  I didn't really like the sound.  It was just a bit off for me, but afterwards I changed it to the KZ upgrade Silver plated cable and it was much much better.  I now really love the sound signature.  It's not too heavy on the bass for me, kind of just right.  I actually like these more then my Trinity Atlas (of which is also a Hybrid IEM.  But then again to be fair, I just don't like that sound signature so much).  I'm really surprised at how they can create such a nice sounding IEM for this price range.
> 
> Also of note, I tend to have trouble with fit on my right ear for some reason, but my left is always really snug.  Because of this, I always have to use Comply Foam tips.  I wasn't sure how Comply would fit on these so I didn't buy any.  But the seller I purchased from had something called SpinFit from Taiwan, which he guaranteed would fit the KZ ZST.  I therefore ordered 2 pairs of SpinFit  (I got it for $3 USD per pair), and it works wonders.  It's the first time I've had a Silicone Ear Tip that actually fits me well.  The only other one was from Klipsch, but their oval tips only fit well if I didn't really move.  Once I started moving, they always wiggled out.  Others are even worst.  Even if I don't move they just slowly come out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 KZ doesn't have great QC, but my stock cable and silver cable do not differ by that much.  
 Check for polarity though, another poster here had the same issue and a quick polarity check solved it, turns out she swapped the pins around.  "A bit off" usually indicates a polarity issue, as the different phase in each ear sounds fine on its own but once you put them together your brain interprets it as a muddled sound. 
  
 If no issue with polarity, then maybe you do have a dud stock cable.


----------



## Mus1c

gemmoglock said:


> Overdue opinion on this and in reply to @actorlife
> yes the ATR needs a bit of amping or a more powerful DAP. After switching from a Shanling M1 to my Fiio X1 II I find the bass is a bit more extended and defined, while soundstage also seems to become wider.
> 
> Not too sure if just increasing the volume will help. Because while I tried that for the M1 the sound signature was really flat and smooth so that may be why the improvement wasn't much.
> ...


so i need amp to run this iem perfectly but i don't amp, i use with my smartphone and i just crank the volume seem to fix it. But why this iem hungry power?


----------



## gemmoglock

mus1c said:


> so i need amp to run this iem perfectly but i don't amp, i use with my smartphone and i just crank the volume seem to fix it. But why this iem hungry power?


 
  
 Not too sure if I can help since I don't design the IEM. It depends on the materials and other design choices KZ have. I only just point out my observations. You should fine an improvement when you try this with an amp in the future or a DAP. If you are happy as it is that's no problem at all! Most of my casual listening friends who tried it with phones are happy enough it seems. I just find that the sound is a lot more defined and scales up when I use a DAP with hi-res lossless files.


----------



## asegier

That is quite interesting.  Thanks for the info.  Although looking back I'm not sure if it was a polarity issue, I'm pretty sure I put it on the correct way.  Cause when I put them on, I checked the positions, and I remember the first time I put it on wrong, so I had to double back and re-plug it.
  
 I agree.  I bought from Penon Audio, and the Manager there said that they dropped every one of KZ's products because of QC (They were dropping AuGlamour too).  But they were still selling the KZ ZST.  They said that this one is still OK.  So maybe I'm lucky?  I don't know.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Huh, is KZ QC that bad?  I haven't seen too many failures in this thread.


----------



## asegier

sometechnoob said:


> Huh, is KZ QC that bad?  I haven't seen too many failures in this thread.


 
  
 Not so sure myself.  But it's what one of the members have stated.  I purchased 3 KZ ZST's.  I've only opened one.  Will let you know when I open the other two.


----------



## Keller1

asegier said:


> Not so sure myself.  But it's what one of the members have stated.  I purchased 3 KZ ZST's.  I've only opened one.  Will let you know when I open the other two.


 
 My track record is 2/11 and 1 cable with serious defects ( channel imablance ) and 2/11 with minor defects ( popping when inserted in ear, grille that's fallen off)
  
 for a total of 4/11 having some sort of issue.


----------



## asegier

keller1 said:


> My track record is 2/11 and 1 cable with serious defects ( channel imablance ) and 2/11 with minor defects ( popping when inserted in ear, grille that's fallen off)
> 
> for a total of 4/11 having some sort of issue.


 
 Holy.  That is really bad.  I didn't expect that, given so many people with good responses.  The reviews are all really good... I wonder how that happened for you.  Which models did you buy?


----------



## Keller1

asegier said:


> Holy.  That is really bad.  I didn't expect that, given so many people with good responses.  The reviews are all really good... I wonder how that happened for you.  Which models did you buy?


 
 The ones with serious problems were the ED12 and ZS1.  Minor defects were ZST and ZS3.


----------



## vegetaleb

7th anniversary sales of aliexpress are next week, they are already showing prices, but it's really not the big sales I saw last year and on 11.11.
 Only the ZST colors price has dropped, others like ZS3 are still on the 18ish$ this time the sales are BS
 I remember buying the ZS3 for 10$ on 11.11
 I was hoping to get the new ZS3 cable + mic for under 5$ but no!


----------



## ricemanhk

asegier said:


> Holy.  That is really bad.  I didn't expect that, given so many people with good responses.  The reviews are all really good... I wonder how that happened for you.  Which models did you buy?


 
 My colorful ZST is all fine (both cables) but my ZS3 stock cable housing is loose on the right side, loose enough that the wire falls out with relatively low effort tugging e.g. just taking it out of my ear.  Using the silver cable is fine, so likely the wire housing on the stock cable was slightly off. I managed to get a small refund (the cost of a pair of stock cables) from the seller for this.
  
 Still, for this price level, you have to expect some corners to be cut.  Thankfully sound quality isn't one of them!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

vegetaleb said:


> 7th anniversary sales of aliexpress are next week, they are already showing prices, but it's really not the big sales I saw last year and on 11.11.
> Only the ZST colors price has dropped, others like ZS3 are still on the 18ish$ this time the sales are BS
> I remember buying the ZS3 for 10$ on 11.11
> I was hoping to get the new ZS3 cable + mic for under 5$ but no!




The ZS3 is $7.99 on gearbest though. Good enough?


----------



## ahmadairfan

slaterlovesspam said:


> haha, yeah
> 
> Hey, what do you think of your W1 Pros?



At ~$4 price, they just can't go wrong. Almost flat sound signature (warm tendency) with tight bass. Mids are decent, and highs are a bit recessed. Soundstage and clarity is okay. IMO the best features are the cable, it's detachable and have good coating (no tangle and microphonics at all). It's perfect for workouts, I think.


----------



## zabunny94

sometechnoob said:


> Huh, is KZ QC that bad?  I haven't seen too many failures in this thread.




Well, my edr2 came without glue in the housong part, and i fell apart when i try to replace the eartips... Fixed by glue in 2 minutes tho



vegetaleb said:


> 7th anniversary sales of aliexpress are next week, they are already showing prices, but it's really not the big sales I saw last year and on 11.11.
> Only the ZST colors price has dropped, others like ZS3 are still on the 18ish$ this time the sales are BS
> I remember buying the ZS3 for 10$ on 11.11
> I was hoping to get the new ZS3 cable + mic for under 5$ but no!




Sadly i find the price in local shop near me to be as cheap or sometimes even cheaper than the sale price. Sometimes I am glad that i live in Indonesia because jaknot always sell chinese stuff cheaper than those "sale" price.



ahmadairfan said:


> At ~$4 price, they just can't go wrong. Almost flat sound signature (warm tendency) with tight bass. Mids are decent, and highs are a bit recessed. Soundstage and clarity is okay. IMO the best features are the cable, it's detachable and have good coating (no tangle and microphonics at all). It's perfect for workouts, I think.




Well, it should be noted that w1 pro is not using conventional mmcx cable, and the cheapest compatible cable that i can find in AE cost thrice of its price. While w1 pro is decent, just don't think of it as an iem with removable cable


----------



## Mus1c

zabunny94 said:


> Well, my edr2 came without glue in the housong part, and i fell apart when i try to replace the eartips... Fixed by glue in 2 minutes tho
> Sadly i find the price in local shop near me to be as cheap or sometimes even cheaper than the sale price. Sometimes I am glad that i live in Indonesia because jaknot always sell chinese stuff cheaper than those "sale" price.


 what are the prices? Btw i live in malaysia but i don't think its cheap in my country it cost rm40-78 at lazada.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Wait, you mean you got the Mula or Zircons for $12 shipped?



Yes Sir the Zir(cons) on that ebay. Was the sellers last one. You got the QKZ W1 PRO(fonge W1 Pro on ebay weird)? Thoughts? Oh Oh.  Ever try these? Hahaha http://www.ebay.com/itm/282386499551


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> what are the prices? Btw i live in malaysia but i don't think its cheap in my country it cost rm40-78 at lazada.



I've gotten all my KZ on ebay. The prices usually even out if i buy a couple.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> I've gotten all my KZ on ebay. The prices usually even out if i buy a couple.


 are sure about that, cuz i never buy item through ebay. nope the amounts are still the same when convert to Malaysian currency.


----------



## actorlife

gemmoglock said:


> Overdue opinion on this and in reply to @actorlife
> yes the ATR needs a bit of amping or a more powerful DAP. After switching from a Shanling M1 to my Fiio X1 II I find the bass is a bit more extended and defined, while soundstage also seems to become wider.
> 
> Not too sure if just increasing the volume will help. Because while I tried that for the M1 the sound signature was really flat and smooth so that may be why the improvement wasn't much.
> ...



Great overview i appreciate it. The ATR bass has gotten alot better still doing pink noise and music. I feel that the treble is a bit less. I read a review online and the guy said the same thing. That's ok though i like to try all sound sig. I have an Cowon x7 and Clip+ and seems to drive them good. Still BI the ED9 and improvements in bass no irritating highs. Much greater.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> are sure about that, cuz i never buy item through ebay. nope the amounts are still the same when convert to Malaysian currency.



I think i bought one from your country. I'm in the US though.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> I think i bought one from your country. I'm in the US though.


from which online stores?.


----------



## zabunny94

mus1c said:


> what are the prices? Btw i live in malaysia but i don't think its cheap in my country it cost rm40-78 at lazada.




Well, its really close to the wholesale price of alibaba, except you can buy it individually... Around $1-$2 difference

Zs3 is less than $10 here, any time
Zst is $12
Atr is $5 or $6 , I don't remember

Not really a big fan of lazada for chinese iem because local online marketplace like toped or BL usually has better price


----------



## Mus1c

zabunny94 said:


> Well, its really close to the wholesale price of alibaba, except you can buy it individually... Around $1-$2 difference
> 
> Zs3 is less than $10 here, any time
> Zst is $12
> ...


 ok no so much of differences between lazada price if convert to us currency but i have to buy with malaysian currency which hell of expensive i can only by one at the time. Although kz price in the us is cheap but in malaysia double 2x the price like for example for the price 1 usd = rm 4.40.


----------



## asegier

ricemanhk said:


> My colorful ZST is all fine (both cables) but my ZS3 stock cable housing is loose on the right side, loose enough that the wire falls out with relatively low effort tugging e.g. just taking it out of my ear.  Using the silver cable is fine, so likely the wire housing on the stock cable was slightly off. I managed to get a small refund (the cost of a pair of stock cables) from the seller for this.
> 
> Still, for this price level, you have to expect some corners to be cut.  Thankfully sound quality isn't one of them!


 
 Exactly.. This is the similar experience I've had.  Except I didn't even use the stock cable...


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> from which online stores?.



14fixtax is the seller feedback not so good. I took a chance and ordered the ED3 should be here next week i hope. Ill let you know.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> 14fixtax is the seller feedback not so good. I took a chance and ordered the ED3 should be here next week i hope. Ill let you know.


 i dont know what are talking about I've never heard that seller before?,from which online store do you bought the ed3?.


----------



## Shawn71

mus1c said:


> i dont know what are talking about I've never heard that seller before?,from which online store do you bought the ed3?.




Aliexpress and gearbest are also cheap and are also best places to buy.....you pretty much get the packages delivered to your door in a very decent timeframe too,being ordered from malasia imo.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> i dont know what are talking about I've never heard that seller before?,from which online store do you bought the ed3?.



Here:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ED3-HiFi-In-Ear-Earbuds-Earphones-Bass-Headphones-Headset-Universal-/172112787053?hash=item2812b8b66d%3Ag%3AISYAAOSwFNZWzXfQ&_trkparms=pageci%253Afdd337c3-0e50-11e7-ab87-74dbd1802067%257Cparentrq%253Af1a2e00b15a0a60624f9403efffa2449%257Ciid%253A5


----------



## Mus1c

shawn71 said:


> Aliexpress and gearbest are also cheap and are also best places to buy.....you pretty much get the packages delivered to your door in a very decent timeframe too,being ordered from malasia imo.


 can you estimate for how long it will arrive. I think it will be long cuz the item from china, 30 days maybe in certain part of the country like European country, in my country it will took 1 week or less i think cuz it in asian region and the shipping was free too, i better stay with my own country online store.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Here:
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ED3-HiFi-In-Ear-Earbuds-Earphones-Bass-Headphones-Headset-Universal-/172112787053?hash=item2812b8b66d%3Ag%3AISYAAOSwFNZWzXfQ&_trkparms=pageci%253Afdd337c3-0e50-11e7-ab87-74dbd1802067%257Cparentrq%253Af1a2e00b15a0a60624f9403efffa2449%257Ciid%253A5


yep never heard of that seller cu z i dont use ebay btw good luck.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> yep never heard of that seller cu z i dont use ebay btw good luck.


 Maybe he has a store there check to see for an address.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Maybe he has a store there check to see for an address.


 the seller is not from Malaysia he is from us btw, the item ship from malaysia? I dont think malaysia produce kz iem.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> the seller is not from Malaysia he is from us btw, the item ship from malaysia? I dont think malaysia produce kz iem.



It did say shipped from there. Ordered on March 10 would have been here already if US. Which KZ ya getting?


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> It did say shipped from there. Ordered on March 10 would have been here already if US. Which KZ ya getting?


 probably the zs3 cuz i like bass heavy iem and i will order it tomorrow but not on ebay difference online store in my country, in addition they are having 5th anniversary which promote 90% off deals on all brand and everything else.


----------



## actorlife

I should have my ZS3 this week hopefully. To my ears those ZST have some good bass. You should get those Rock Z as well if you want good heavy bass. Ordered mine yesterday.  Im looking forward to the new KZ wish there was a pic and price of them.


----------



## Enn Jott

My ZST Colourful arrived yesterday (after just two months from gearbest) - do you guys think they need some burn-in (playing time)? I kinda like them and yet don't. I've never been this confused by new in-ears/headphones thus far. good, not good, ok, sucks... and so on...
  
 I don't expect them to sound as true as my FSPs (over-ear) but i tend to think they do sound off at times. like just wrong (especially with acoustic and singer-songwriter stuff). 
  
 the only other in ears i can compare them to  atm are (probably fake but really really good sounding) denon ah-c 700. they cost about the same as the ZSTs --> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Denon-AH-C700-In-Ear-Earbud-Headphones-Earphone-Aluminum-Housing-for-iPhone-iPod-/272425579737?hash=item3f6dd474d9:g:TJUAAOSwUEVYDuji
  
 So back to the sound resp. burn-in --> does it alter the sound in a way? less treble harshness maybe?


----------



## actorlife

enn jott said:


> My ZST Colourful arrived yesterday (after just two months from gearbest) - do you guys think they need some burn-in (playing time)? I kinda like them and yet don't. I've never been this confused by new in-ears/headphones thus far. good, not good, ok, sucks... and so on...
> 
> I don't expect them to sound as true as my FSPs (over-ear) but i tend to think they do sound off at times. like just wrong (especially with acoustic and singer-songwriter stuff).
> 
> ...



To me they sound great out the box. No BI needed imo. Left and right markings are inside not outside correct? Please post a pic.


----------



## Enn Jott

With left and right inside the sound is the wrong way around --> left is right and right is left. This is a known problem isn't it? Maybe i should talk to gearbest for another cable or a refund...


----------



## actorlife

Alot people say it sounds better with grey cable. Sounds good to me so far with included cable. Ill listen more and report back tomm. Try to BI over night and check to hear if its better. Also make sure it carefully clicks in the socket.


----------



## loomisjohnson

enn jott said:


> My ZST Colourful arrived yesterday (after just two months from gearbest) - do you guys think they need some burn-in (playing time)? I kinda like them and yet don't. I've never been this confused by new in-ears/headphones thus far. good, not good, ok, sucks... and so on...
> 
> I don't expect them to sound as true as my FSPs (over-ear) but i tend to think they do sound off at times. like just wrong (especially with acoustic and singer-songwriter stuff).
> 
> ...


 

 burn in never hurts--even if it doesn't actually change the signature (which is an oft-debated subject), it allows  your brain to acclimate to the signature. as for the zst, they are somewhat recessed/lean in the midrange, which may be what you're hearing with less heavy fare. however, they are very tip sensitive and you likely get different results by trying different tips.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> probably the zs3 cuz i like bass heavy iem and i will order it tomorrow but not on ebay difference online store in my country, in addition they are having 5th anniversary which promote 90% off deals on all brand and everything else.



These also fit the bill. https://audiobudget.com/product.php?brand=Joyroom&id=JR-E109

http://m.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_355284.html?wid=21


----------



## actorlife

Im in possession of the KZ ZS3. First impressions Holy Moly Mus1c - SLS Bass though not over done. On my rockbox clip+ bass is 16 i turned it down to 14. Such clarity as the ZST but with a bigger bass and the ZST are not bass shy. Good to see that the cable is grey. They are a bit louder than the other KZ models. Got a good fit after a couple of tries. I also got the Acme ED3(blue) fist listen needs BI time not clear or tight bass. 

KZ ZST/KZ ZS3 tie
KZ ATE
KZ ED9 might move up soon BI took most of the treble harshness away.
KZ ED3 acme need BI
KZ ATR a bit treble shy i guess if you like flat eq or less treble might appeal to you. 

Hope this helps someone who wants these.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Im in possession of the KZ ZS3. First impressions Holy Moly Mus1c - SLS Bass though not over done. On my rockbox clip+ bass is 16 i turned it down to 14. Such clarity as the ZST but with a bigger bass and the ZST are not bass shy. Good to see that the cable is grey. They are a bit louder than the other KZ models. Got a good fit after a couple of tries. I also got the Acme ED3(blue) fist listen needs BI time not clear or tight bass.
> 
> KZ AST/KZ ZS3 tie
> KZ ATE
> ...


there you go some performance from kz zs3 ahh you hyping me up actorlife i be hoping next week will get the zs3. Cheers to bass monster, king.. Etc(zs3)


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> there you go some performance from kz zs3 ahh you hyping me up actorlife i be hoping next week will get the zs3. Cheers to bass monster, king.. Etc(zs3)



The hype is real hunka BASS. Like to hear your take when you get them. I don't think you will need BI either.


----------



## Mus1c

Sure I'll let you know when i got them.beside that no need bi time wow sure this is hell a good iem.


----------



## actorlife

You'll have a crazy big smile on your face. Maybe try Joyroom too. Nice colors available.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> You'll have a crazy big smile on your face. Maybe try Joyroom too. Nice colors available.


 nice, but i never heard of joyrom before and how they sound?


----------



## actorlife

Dont know they seem to get good reviews on the JOYROOM JR-E109. Did you read the review i linked earlier? Powerful bass too.


----------



## Mus1c

Sorry i miss read it, never mind i can go back to the page where you post and read the reviews.are you planing to buy one of these joyroom iem in the future?.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> Sorry i miss read it, never mind i can go back to the page where you post and read the reviews.are you planing to buy one of these joyroom iem in the future?.



I might not sure. Get them and LMK what ya think.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Im in possession of the KZ ZS3. First impressions Holy Moly Mus1c - SLS Bass though not over done. On my rockbox clip+ bass is 16 i turned it down to 14. Such clarity as the ZST but with a bigger bass and the ZST are not bass shy. Good to see that the cable is grey. They are a bit louder than the other KZ models. Got a good fit after a couple of tries. I also got the Acme ED3(blue) fist listen needs BI time not clear or tight bass.
> 
> KZ AST/KZ ZS3 tie
> KZ ATE
> ...


 
  
 Nice rundown on the different models. I've been wondering about the ED3 Acme myself (Wile E. Coyote produce these or something)?
  
 Which tubes did you use on the ED9 - brass or gold?
  
 And what's the AST? Never heard of that model before.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ZST*


----------



## Vidal

actorlife said:


> Im in possession of the KZ ZS3. First impressions Holy Moly Mus1c - SLS Bass though not over done. On my rockbox clip+ bass is 16 i turned it down to 14. Such clarity as the ZST but with a bigger bass and the ZST are not bass shy. Good to see that the cable is grey. They are a bit louder than the other KZ models. Got a good fit after a couple of tries. I also got the Acme ED3(blue) fist listen needs BI time not clear or tight bass.
> 
> KZ AST/KZ ZS3 tie
> KZ ATE
> ...


 
  
 Surprised at the ATR being down at the bottom due to a lack of treble. In terms of relative treble quantity I'd say the KZ are: -
  
 ZST > ED9 > HDS3 > HD9 > ATR > EDR2 > ZS2 > HDS1 > ZS3 > ZN1 Mini
  
 I haven't done a review of the ATE yet but I definitely recall the ATR being sharper that the ATE-S which I have.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> I might not sure. Get them and LMK what ya think.


 me i don't want to buy the joyrom since i have to wait the zs3 to arrive, probably don't know yet but have you try the atr with an amp before because the kz atr is power hungry so if you have the amp use it for atr and see the differences in sound.


----------



## kokakolia

vidal said:


> Surprised at the ATR being down at the bottom due to a lack of treble. In terms of relative treble quantity I'd say the KZ are: -
> 
> ZST > ED9 > HDS3 > HD9 > ATR > EDR2 > ZS2 > HDS1 > ZS3 > ZN1 Mini
> 
> I haven't done a review of the ATE yet but I definitely recall the ATR being sharper that the ATE-S which I have.




Yeesh! The ZSTs must have so much treble that they attract all dogs within a 10 km radius! 

...Because they have more treble than the ED9s!? How is that a good thing?

EDIT: I really appreciate the comparison. This kind of info is really useful for making an informed purchase.


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> ...Because they have more treble than the ED9s!? How is that a good thing?
> 
> EDIT: I really appreciate the comparison. This kind of info is really useful for making an informed purchase.


 
  
 As you get older your ears get tougher, I turn the treble up to 11 when I'm listening to ED9!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

vidal said:


> As you get older your ears get tougher, I turn the treble up to 11 when I'm listening to ED9!


 
 As a person in his early 20's, just reading this hurt my ears haha.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Nice rundown on the different models. I've been wondering about the ED3 Acme myself (Wile E. Coyote produce these or something)?
> 
> Haha weird naming i guess cause they have dos versions.
> 
> ...


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> me i don't want to buy the joyrom since i have to wait the zs3 to arrive, probably don't know yet but have you try the atr with an amp before because the kz atr is power hungry so if you have the amp use it for atr and see the differences in sound.



I have a fiio E11 amp maybe ill try it. I dont really use it on the GO though. I dont think it will enhance the treble though. Have you noticed any with your amp?


----------



## actorlife

vidal said:


> Surprised at the ATR being down at the bottom due to a lack of treble. In terms of relative treble quantity I'd say the KZ are: -
> 
> ZST > ED9 > HDS3 > HD9 > ATR > EDR2 > ZS2 > HDS1 > ZS3 > ZN1 Mini
> 
> I haven't done a review of the ATE yet but I definitely recall the ATR being sharper that the ATE-S which I have.




I likes my treble though with the ED9 it was harsh it calmed down after 70 hrs of music and pink noise. The ED3 sound better with PN. At first listen it had a hollow sound. Its opening up NICEly. I don't find the other KZ harsh with treble. ZS3 has NICE treble. Surprised you put it lower than the ATR(amped?). Zoinks. 
The others you mentioned I've never heard. I'm eagerly waiting to see what flagship earbud KZ is coming up with. Impatiently waiting.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> I have a fiio E11 amp maybe ill try it. I dont really use it on the GO though. I dont think it will enhance the treble though. Have you noticed any with your amp?


 apparently i don't have an amp i only use with my phone,so you should try with the atr to make treble more enchanting than it should be with the phone. Let me know if the amp fix the treble.


----------



## Vidal

actorlife said:


> I likes my treble though with the ED9 it was harsh it calmed down after 70 hrs of music and pink noise. The ED3 sound better with PN. At first listen it had a hollow sound. Its opening up NICEly. I don't find the other KZ harsh with treble. ZS3 has NICE treble. Surprised you put it lower than the ATR(amped?). Zoinks.
> The others you mentioned I've never heard. I'm eagerly waiting to see what flagship earbud KZ is coming up with. Impatiently waiting.


 
  
 I use a Cozoy Aegis with my phones - iPhone, Xiaomi Mi Max - it's fairly powerful. I'm not a big believer in BI in terms of the equipment changing, I do believe it helps to give yourself 'adjustment time' between headphones. I don't think there is a massive difference across any of the KZs excluding the ZST.


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> apparently i don't have an amp i only use with my phone,so you should try with the atr to make treble more enchanting than it should be with the phone. Let me know if the amp fix the treble.


 
  
 What phone? Some phones like the iPhone actually have fairly decent output anyway - whilst other Mi Max for instance are pretty poor.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> What phone? Some phones like the iPhone actually have fairly decent output anyway - whilst other Mi Max for instance are pretty poor.


 samsung note 3?


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> samsung note 3?


 
  
 Not sure, my Note 4 is OK in terms of quality but there's a marked improvement when I plug in the Cozoy. I was hoping you were going to say iPhone.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> Not sure, my Note 4 is OK in terms of quality but there's a marked improvement when I plug in the Cozoy. I was hoping you were going to say iPhone.


so when you plug in the atr on your phone does it lacking in volume. The note 3 does lack in volume so it doesn't have enough output voltage to run the iem perfectly and it seems mess with the treble too.


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> so when you plug in the atr on your phone does it lacking in volume. The note 3 does lack in volume so it doesn't have enough output voltage to run the iem perfectly and seem a bit low on volume.


 
  
 I don't listen too loud, there's enough volume for me at about 80%, with the Cozoy it's set to about 30%.
  
 There's not a lot of difference with the ATR and other IEMs all are give or take 1 click the same.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> I don't listen too loud, there's enough volume for me at about 80%, with the Cozoy it's set to about 30%.
> 
> There's not a lot of difference with the ATR and other IEMs all are give or take 1 click the same.


no what i mean is when you plug in the atr to your phone does it lacking in treble and volume.


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> no what i mean is when you plug in the atr to your phone does it lacking in treble and volume.


 
  
 I said   _'__I don't listen too loud, there's enough volume for me at about 80%'   _I think that indicates that there is no lack of volume. 
  
 As for treble it's an ATR, I'd prefer more treble regardless of source. Even with the Cozoy which is brighter than the direct phone I'd say I need more treble. The lack of treble isn't down to a lack of power.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> I said   _'__I don't listen too loud, there's enough volume for me at about 80%'   _I think that indicates that there is no lack of volume.
> 
> As for treble it's an ATR, I'd prefer more treble regardless of source. Even with the Cozoy which is brighter than the direct phone I'd say I need more treble. The lack of treble isn't down to a lack of power.


 sorry for not understand to your post, so you don't have the problem with atr.


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> sorry for not understand to your post, so you don't have the problem with atr.


 
  
 No worries, ATR is shy of treble for my taste. I don't think a phone will ever give you a 'loud' volume because they're designed not to, especially in the EU. Investing in a decent DAC/amp will help you get a better sound overall.


----------



## Keller1

mus1c said:


> no what i mean is when you plug in the atr to your phone does it lacking in treble and volume.


 
 Wait, you're lacking volume on a note 3?

 If i turn up my note more than 70% the ATR is way too loud.

 Are you sure you're not triggering some sort of hearing protection sofware?
 Are you using the stock ROM or do you have a custom one?


----------



## Mus1c

keller1 said:


> Wait, you're lacking volume on a note 3?
> 
> 
> If i turn up my note more than 70% the ATR is way too loud.
> ...


 no the atr doesn't lacking in volume i suppose but in general the atr is liitle bit power hungry and so its need amp to kind really shine the atr. No i use atr with my phone and had custom rom install on it and the custom rom does not change anything in term of sound quality,i just used normal way like you do.


----------



## Mus1c

Vidal do you have any recommendations for me to buy an amp. Im on budget so can you help me to find best budget amp? Or dac


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> @Vidal do you have any recommendations for me to buy an amp. Im on budget so can you help me to find best budget amp? Or dac


 
  
 I'm only really familiar with a few and I'm not sure of compatibility with your phone. There's plenty of decent brands out there that might be of interest Fiio, SMSL and Topping would all be in the budget bracket I guess. You'd need to research which one would have a model within your means.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> @Vidal do you have any recommendations for me to buy an amp. Im on budget so can you help me to find best budget amp? Or dac


 
  
 Topping NX1 is dirt cheap, fairly powerful, and has killer battery life. Mine has been serving me well for quite a while now.


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> Vidal do you have any recommendations for me to buy an amp. Im on budget so can you help me to find best budget amp? Or dac




For good budget DAPs, take a look at the Xduoo X3 (with Rockbox) and AGPTek H01.


----------



## Terran Earthson

Hey there, gearbest is really pissing me off, firstly my local post  said that my parcel with ED9 were lost in some warehouse during chinese new year? How is that even possible? Gearbest says that i should wait till they verify this, and refund can take up to 180 days, wow what?
 And like that wasn't enough, i've been waiting for ZS3 since feb 03, and here 56 days later, no info about package whatsoever, should've come to Istanbul. Probably was my fault that i choose unregistered air mail, so gearbest said that package should come in 60 to 70 days. Was someone had the same experience, should i just wait for it?


----------



## Vidal

terran earthson said:


> Hey there, gearbest is really pissing me off, firstly my local post  said that my parcel with ED9 were lost in some warehouse during chinese new year? How is that even possible? Gearbest says that i should wait till they verify this, and refund can take up to 180 days, wow what?
> And like that wasn't enough, i've been waiting for ZS3 since feb 03, and here 56 days later, no info about package whatsoever, should've come to Istanbul. Probably was my fault that i choose unregistered air mail, so gearbest said that package should come in 60 to 70 days. Was someone had the same experience, should i just wait for it?


 
  
 If you paid with paypal then that's the way to get your money back - don't wait too long as you may lose the chance to claim your money back


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> @Vidal do you have any recommendations for me to buy an amp. Im on budget so can you help me to find best budget amp? Or dac


 
  
 There is the SMSL Idol+ on Aliexpress, there is a review here it's a free stuff review so normally I'd be cautious on whether it was overly positive, however as it's by @peter123 I'm confident it will be a sound judgement. It seemingly works with both Z3 Compact and LG G3 so it could work with the Samsung S3 that you have.


----------



## Mus1c

vidal said:


> There is the SMSL Idol+ on Aliexpress, there is a review here it's a free stuff review so normally I'd be cautious on whether it was overly positive, however as it's by @peter123
> I'm confident it will be a sound judgement. It seemingly works with both Z3 Compact and LG G3 so it could work with the Samsung S3 that you have.


no not s3 samsung note 3


----------



## Vidal

mus1c said:


> no not s3 samsung note 3


 
  
 Force of habit, I meant Note 3. You might want to check with compatibility beforehand.


----------



## vegetaleb

Anyone tried the cheap QKZ DM600?
 I like the fact that it has a volume button on the mic but I hope it has a good audio quality.
 And about the ZS3, is it compatible with MMCX cables?


----------



## Mus1c

Has anyone has experience with the registered airmail-china post. I want to know how long it will arrive at your country and i know that aliexpress used this china post to sent parcel at most of the country.


----------



## vegetaleb

mus1c said:


> Has anyone has experience with the registered airmail-china post. I want to know how long it will arrive at your country and i know that aliexpress used this china post to sent parcel at most of the country.


 
  
 China airmail and standard shipping take between 2 to 4 weeks to arrive to Beirut, and both have tracking
 Avoid ''small packet plus'' as it has no tracking and it took 2.5 months to arrive


----------



## Mus1c

vegetaleb said:


> China airmail and standard shipping take between 2 to 4 weeks to arrive to Beirut, and both have tracking
> Avoid ''small packet plus'' as it has no tracking and it took 2.5 months to arrive


 same goes to other country Or it depend on whether you live? So can you help me to identify where the parcel is right now and can you determine that my shipping are normal.


----------



## eteina

vegetaleb said:


> Anyone tried the cheap QKZ DM600?
> I like the fact that it has a volume button on the mic but I hope it has a good audio quality.
> And about the ZS3, is it compatible with MMCX cables?


 
 The ZS3 does not have an MMCX cable, it has a bi-pin connection


----------



## actorlife

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]I wonder why they dont have vol control on the newer models? I think bought one with mic and was a bit disappointed no vol. control. Even Mee has them on cheaper models. WHAT is the name of the new model coming out?


----------



## eteina

actorlife said:


> I wonder why they dont have vol control on the newer models? I think bought one with mic and was a bit disappointed no vol. control. Even Mee has them on cheaper models. WHAT is the name of the new model coming out?


 
 Yeah, I dig vol control. I find it extremely useful, most probably they are skipping to include it to reduce costs and increase their profit margin.


----------



## actorlife

eteina said:


> Yeah, I dig vol control. I find it extremely useful, most probably they are skipping to include it to reduce costs and increase their profit margin.



I agree on ed3 acme but should be included on the higher end ZS3 or ZST.


----------



## eteina

actorlife said:


> I agree on ed3 acme but should be included on the higher end ZS3 or ZST.


 
 You are certainly right, lower or cheaper models could be acceptable to skip the vol control but higher models as the ZS3, ZST or ED12 should at least have the option to get it with a cable with vol control


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> I wonder why they dont have vol control on the newer models? I think bought one with mic and was a bit disappointed no vol. control. Even Mee has them on cheaper models. WHAT is the name of the new model coming out?


 
 I feel one of the main reasons is because Apple volume control is wired opposite from Android volume control. So manufacturers either have the following 4 choices with regards to volume control:
  
 1. Add a switch to manually select between Apple/Android.
 2. Add active circuitry to detect the type of phone plugged in & automatically select between Apple/Android.
 3. Settle on one or the other wiring standard (which they almost always choose Android because many of these manufacturers also manufacture Android phones), leaving half of their phone user base out in the cold.
 4. Omit volume control & just provide mic with single 'universal' button.
  
 More and more they are choosing option 4.
  
 #1-3 add additional costs, both in hardware & licensing to cover the Apple wiring (because I am pretty sure they have to pay Apple a patent licensing fee to wire it the Apple way).
  
 When you're talking a pair of KZs that sell at a street price of $7, the wholesale cost is probably $4. So $1-2 additional manufacturing cost for a 3-button volume control (plus licensing fees) represents up to 50% increase in costs. Add to it losses due to QC defects and warranty claims from wiring faults & button failures, and it doesn't take a genius to see why they often would rather just save the headaches and K.I.S.S.
  
 I agree with eteina that it would be nice to at least include it on higher priced models.


----------



## eteina

slaterlovesspam said:


> I feel one of the main reasons is because Apple volume control is wired opposite from Android volume control. So manufacturers either have the following 4 choices with regards to volume control:
> 
> 1. Add a switch to manually select between Apple/Android.
> 2. Add active circuitry to detect the type of phone plugged in & automatically select between Apple/Android.
> ...


 
 Nicely explained!


----------



## SHKRIKIUS

Hi Guys!

I postponed buying the S4's from mistertao for too long and today I saw that mistertao.com isn't in the bussiness anymore...

Does someone know any other good shop or another secure Tao agent?


Thank You!


----------



## vegetaleb

What about ZS3 vs W1 Pro? Yes I love my ZS3 but the mic button is hard to press for tracks change, and getting a new 7$ cable while a W1 Pro iem is at 6$...


----------



## eteina

vegetaleb said:


> What about ZS3 vs W1 Pro? Yes I love my ZS3 but the mic button is hard to press for tracks change, and getting a new 7$ cable while a W1 Pro iem is at 6$...


 
 Never bought the W1 Pro so I cannot give you much info about them but a quick google search threw me some results for them

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=qkz+w1+pro+review&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=qkz+fonge+w1+pro+review&*


----------



## SpiderNhan

I just received a ZST Colorful today and while they sound great, the right ear piece has massive driver flex. None on the left ear piece. I even tested both sides by inserting each in the opposite ear and it's definitely the right one. Is there anything I can do to alleviate this?


----------



## Terran Earthson

Is "Dispatch Faster" button does anything worthwile? I've been clicking it for about 20 times in different hours of the day, but order is still processing.


----------



## Slater

terran earthson said:


> Is "Dispatch Faster" button does anything worthwile? I've been clicking it for about 20 times in different hours of the day, but order is still processing.


 
 Not that I have found. I've RECEIVED orders & that button still appears.
  
 I think it's psychological, like when you are waiting for an elevator & you keep pressing the UP button thinking the elevator is magically going to come faster. Or in IT when end users say the printer is taking too long to print, so they hit the print button 50 more times thinking that will make the print job 'go faster'. Then 2,000 pages starts spilling out of the printer.


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> I just received a ZST Colorful today and while they sound great, the right ear piece has massive driver flex. None on the left ear piece. I even tested both sides by inserting each in the opposite ear and it's definitely the right one. Is there anything I can do to alleviate this?


 
 Check the tiny vent port on the right ear piece. Sounds like it's clogged up.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vegetaleb said:


> What about ZS3 vs W1 Pro? Yes I love my ZS3 but the mic button is hard to press for tracks change, and getting a new 7$ cable while a W1 Pro iem is at 6$...


 
  
 I've got both. They are very different, but very capable earphones. ZS3 is warmer and smoother. The W1 Pro offers up a more balanced sound imo, but is also more sub- than mid-bass focused giving you a really nice visceral rumble that the ZS3 doesn't have. Other than that, as much as I love the W1 Pro the ZS3 is probably the better of the two. They sound more natural and have a more spacious soundstage (though not by much). I found the ZS3 easier to wear too. The W1 Pro's cable is pretty kick@$$ for a budget product though. KZ can't touch em there. Get the cable for the ZS3, and maybe a W1 Pro as backup?
  
 ZS3 Reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/products/kz-zs3-hifi-high-end-3-5mm-in-ear-earphone-headphones-earpiece-original-headset-bass-earbuds-with-microphone/reviews
  
 W1 Pro Reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/products/qkz-w1-pro-in-ear-sport-headphone/reviews


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> What about ZS3 vs W1 Pro? Yes I love my ZS3 but the mic button is hard to press for tracks change, and getting a new 7$ cable while a W1 Pro iem is at 6$...


 
 I like my W1 Pro. It's very underrated.
  
 Dirt cheap (under $5) and sooo comfortable. I often sleep in mine because they are so flat & comfy. I just wore mine today playing 54 holes of disc golf. I didn't even notice they were in, whereas when I wear the ZST, ZS3, ZN1, etc I have to take them out after 60-90 mins because my ears get sure. The stock cable is pretty nice too.
  
 In stock form it sounds really 'meh' because it's a completely sealed housing (very compressed & slightly tinny). You simply make (2) tiny 1mm vent holes on each ear piece, & it turns the thing into a monster (once modded it sounds basically identical to the ZS3). You can use a 1mm drill bit (often included in Dremel accessory kits), or a needle works too.
  
 You can make the vent holes anywhere on the housing. On original pair, I made them at the bottom in the skinny section below the words 'W1 PRO'. Sometimes my ear covers one of the holes though.
  
 My 2nd pair, I made the holes identical to the Magaosi K3 PRO (which looks like the exact same shell as the W1 Pro):

 See the 2 little vent holes? If you put them there, you don't even have to take apart the shells if you are careful and don't jam the drill bit in too far. Just pull the drill bit out the instant you pierce the plastic. If you do it that way, all of the plastic shavings stays outside too. The shells are easy to open up though - you can bite them in your teeth & they pop right apart if you really want to.
  
 The vents don't need any mesh either, because they're so small.


----------



## eteina

terran earthson said:


> Is "Dispatch Faster" button does anything worthwile? I've been clicking it for about 20 times in different hours of the day, but order is still processing.


 
  
 I tried sometimes clicking it and sometimes without clicking and did not see any difference in processing, dispatching nor shipping. It might be a gimmick.


----------



## SpiderNhan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Check the tiny vent port on the right ear piece. Sounds like it's clogged up.


 
 It wasn't clogged. It wasn't even pierced through! A needle did the trick.


----------



## actorlife

W1 pro i wonder if its KZ? Says fonge: www.ebay.ca/itm/302174501437


----------



## eteina

actorlife said:


> W1 pro i wonder if its KZ? Says fonge: www.ebay.ca/itm/302174501437


 
 From reviews I saw online apparently they are not KZ but QKZ or Fonge


----------



## B9Scrambler

The W1 Pro is by QKZ


----------



## actorlife

Good to know eti/e9 I thought they were an older model from KZ.


----------



## eteina

actorlife said:


> Good to know eti. I thought they were an older model from KZ.


 
 Yeah, the KZ and QKZ naming is quite misleading... probably intentional from QKZ


----------



## vegetaleb

And Qkz is a replica brand? Saw some ATE by qkz.


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> The W1 Pro is by QKZ


 
  
 Correct, the W1 Pro is by QKZ.
  
 But KZ and QKZ is basically the same company. QKZ is owned by KZ. Looking at most QKZ IEMs, I have a feeling anything KZ designs and manufacturers in-house gets the KZ name. Anything they have private-labeled from another manufacturer, they brand QKZ (perhaps they influence the tuning or design somehow). The QKZ stuff usually has different cables (such as nylon covered), different tips, the plug doesn't say KZ molded into it, sometimes slightly different retail box, etc. The quality is basically similar though.


----------



## actorlife

eteina said:


> Yeah, the KZ and QKZ is quite misleading... probably intentional from QKZ



YUP,same here. Is that their only good model?


----------



## B9Scrambler

actorlife said:


> YUP,same here. Is that their only good model?


 
  
 I was waiting on the DM8 and W6 Pro to see if they'd be good, but seems they're not going to be showing up. Both arrived in Canads mid-Feb and neither have showed. The W6 Pro was refunded and the DM8 dispute is still in process. Fingers crossed they randomly show...
  
 Edit: The DM7 model isn't bad. Same housings as the ED10 but with a better cable and less treble heavy sound.


----------



## eteina

vegetaleb said:


> And Qkz is a replica brand? Saw some ATE by qkz.


 
 As far as I know QKZ rebrands and resells many popular cheap earphones, that's why probably you saw ATE lookalikes


----------



## actorlife

b9scrambler said:


> I was waiting on the DM8 and W6 Pro to see if they'd be good, but seems they're not going to be showing up. Both arrived in Canads mid-Feb and neither have showed. The W6 Pro was refunded and the DM8 dispute is still in process. Fingers crossed they randomly show...
> 
> Edit: The DM7 model isn't bad. Same housings as the ED10 but with a better cable and less treble heavy sound.



Darn that sucks. I hope get them. I've been getting all my sets on ebay so far been lucky. W6 looks nice i gotta STOP. Just waiting for the new KZ. Then Ill STOP. Hahaha Sure.


----------



## actorlife

The cable is NICE on these anyone try it?http://www.ebay.com/itm/112254462367


----------



## vegetaleb

What about qkz dm600?


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> What about qkz dm600?


 I tried looking on ebay earlier today could not find them i can wait no rush i like the volume control. 6 bucks not bad.


----------



## vegetaleb

actorlife said:


> I tried looking on ebay earlier today could not find them i can wait no rush i like the volume control. 6 bucks not bad.


 
Here one shop for it:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QKZ-G10-Original-Super-Bass-Clear-Voice-Earphone-Metal-Ear-Headphone-Mobile-Computer-MP3-Universal-3/32459439008.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.p2GWlJ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_9999_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_123_201_10531_10099_10530_10103_10102_10096_10052_10144_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10106_10143_10526_10529_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10033_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10120_10124-10050_10530_10119_9999_10111,searchweb201603_5,afswitch_1_afChannel,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=1af0d1c8-e822-4061-b7b9-6e1e32b5e756&algo_expid=62f17bb1-4684-45cf-b906-df656e47b1db-0&algo_pvid=62f17bb1-4684-45cf-b906-df656e47b1db


----------



## B9Scrambler

vegetaleb said:


> What about qkz dm600?


 
  
 There's a Remax model that uses the same housing. Maybe they'd sharing their tuning too?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/remax-rm-s1-pro-sports-in-ear-wired-earphone-portable-music-corded-headset-hd-microphone-red-color


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> Here one shop for it:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QKZ-G10-Original-Super-Bass-Clear-Voice-Earphone-Metal-Ear-Headphone-Mobile-Computer-MP3-Universal-3/32459439008.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.2.p2GWlJ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10065_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_9999_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_123_201_10531_10099_10530_10103_10102_10096_10052_10144_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10106_10143_10526_10529_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10033_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10120_10124-10050_10530_10119_9999_10111,searchweb201603_5,afswitch_1_afChannel,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=1af0d1c8-e822-4061-b7b9-6e1e32b5e756&algo_expid=62f17bb1-4684-45cf-b906-df656e47b



Thanks i just do ebay. Im sure it will pop up there.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> W6 looks nice i gotta STOP. Just waiting for the new KZ. Then Ill STOP. Hahaha Sure.


 
  
 Haha, you sound like me:


----------



## actorlife

Good thing is that they are cheap. PHEW Stll must resist(doing mummy walk).


----------



## Shawn71

vegetaleb said:


> What about ZS3 vs W1 Pro? Yes I love my ZS3 but the mic button is hard to press for tracks change, and getting a new 7$ cable while a W1 Pro iem is at 6$...




My zs3's single click remote is good and even better than brainwavz.......smooth,responsive and easy locatable button unlike brainwavz which is flush.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Just received a ZS3 and a ZST Colorful (that I needed to vent with a needle) yesterday and I was expecting to like the ZST more, but initial impressions have me leaning toward the ZS3 by a wide margin. The ZST sounds a bit incoherent whereas the ZS3 has a smooth, bassy, easily enjoyable sound. I'm actually pretty surprised by the sonic discrepancy.

**Update*: Turns out the ZST is source dependant. From a Galaxy S6 Active, Galaxy S3 rooted with Viper4Android and a V-MODA​ Vamp Verza the sound is merely okay. The 10 ohm impedance of the Verza probably doesn't help.

Plugged into a Dragonfly Red the sound really opens up. The soundstage is huge, for an in ear, and overall sound becomes much more coherent and lively. This may explain the numerous mixed reviews about the ZST. With the proper source they sing and now I'm glad I have both the ZSXs to play with.


----------



## ahmadairfan

slaterlovesspam said:


> I like my W1 Pro. It's very underrated.
> 
> Dirt cheap (under $5) and sooo comfortable. I often sleep in mine because they are so flat & comfy. I just wore mine today playing 54 holes of disc golf. I didn't even notice they were in, whereas when I wear the ZST, ZS3, ZN1, etc I have to take them out after 60-90 mins because my ears get sure. The stock cable is pretty nice too.
> 
> ...



Did this with needle (<1mm). Doesn't seem to improve clarity much (?) I even added another vent.
But one thing I am sure, the driver flex is still there.
EDIT: changed rubber tips -> silicone tips. This is what I'm looking for  the mod seems to give a little bit more airy feeling.


----------



## SpiderNhan

From the looks of it I think these would be compatible with the Z3 and ZST, but I need confirmation before ordering them. I like the looks, moreso than the SPC cable offered by KZ, but I'm also interested in the SQ upgrade the SPC cables offer. If only the cables for the ZS3 and ZST were the same, then I could just order one of each. Thoughts?


----------



## Slater

As long as they are both 2-pin 0.75mm cables, then they would work.
  
 But as you pointed out, the ZS3 and ZST cables have different ends (one straight and one 90-degree):
  
*<-ZST    ZS3->*
  
 And if you look at these photos, it looks like the cables won't fit cleanly around the ear when switched between models because the angle on the jacks):
  
*<-ZST    ZS3->*
  
 Specifically, the ZS3 looks like it needs a straight jack. If there was a sharp 90 degree jack on the ZS3, it probably wouldn't go up enough to clear the top of the ear. I guess your ear size would matter on this, as I am just basing this on the above photos - maybe the people in the photos have ears with odd proportions.
  
 The good news is that it DOES appear that the straight cable from the ZS3 will fit the ZST (and have more than enough room to clear the top of the ear). The only problem might be too much stress on the cable when it has to bend to go behind the ear. The of lack of a proper strain relief on the straight KZ cable does not instill long-term confidence.


----------



## SpiderNhan

slaterlovesspam said:


> As long as they are both 2-pin 0.75mm cables, then they would work.


 
 Thanks! I didn't know what size the connectors on the ZSX's were. The two cables I listed were 0.78mm so no good. Venture Electronics only has one 0.75mm option and it's a this one:

 Makes things much easier. One angled VE cable and one straight KZ cable. Done!


----------



## Slater

ahmadairfan said:


> Did this with needle (<1mm). Doesn't seem to improve clarity much (?) I even added another vent.
> But one thing I am sure, the driver flex is still there.
> EDIT: changed rubber tips -> silicone tips. This is what I'm looking for
> 
> ...


 
 It definitely got rid of the driver flex on mine, and made a noticeable improvement to the sound.
  
 Are you sure the holes on yours were going all of the way through? And I would recommend the holes be 1mm minimum, not <1mm. This would be especially true when using a needle, as the point of the needle narrows down to probably 0.1mm even if the body of the needle is 1mm. That's why I personally prefer drill bits vs needles.
  
 I originally tried mine with (3) 2mm holes based on the KZ ZN1 and ZS1, but it made the bass too overpowering (and I would have needed to add mesh for long-term safety from dust). It did sound like the ZS1 though. I filled the 2mm holes with glue & redrilled them as (2) 1mm and got the results I was looking for.
  
 Yeah, changing the tips is a great way to modify the sound too. I have the stock tips on 10% of my IEM collection The rest all have different tips for better comfort, better sound, or both.


----------



## vegetaleb

b9scrambler said:


> There's a Remax model that uses the same housing. Maybe they'd sharing their tuning too?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/remax-rm-s1-pro-sports-in-ear-wired-earphone-portable-music-corded-headset-hd-microphone-red-color




From the very few reviews (remax) it sounds pretty good, and for 4s it's dirt cheap!!


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> Thanks! I didn't know what size the connectors on the ZSX's were. The two cables I listed were 0.78mm so no good. Venture Electronics only has one 0.75mm option and it's a this one:
> 
> Makes things much easier. One angled VE cable and one straight KZ cable. Done!


 
  
 It's hard to tell from your photo, but do you know if the tip of the cable you bought 'thins down' right at the tip (as seen in this closeup photo of the KZ end):


----------



## SpiderNhan

slaterlovesspam said:


> It's hard to tell from the photo, but do you know if the tip of the cable you bought 'thins down' right at the tip.


 
 I have no idea. It's the only option available on the order form at VE Clan. I haven't ordered it yet. Guess I could always email and ask them.

 https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=8


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> Guess I could always email and ask them.


 
  
 It couldn't hurt to ask for a few closeup photos of the tip. Or if they're willing to take measurements on their tip using a caliper, I'll measure my KZ tips and then you'll know for sure.
  
 Although at the link you posted I was able to pull this photo, which looks pretty close to the KZ (same basic 'narrow down' shape anyways):
  
<--VE Clan   KZ-->


----------



## SpiderNhan

slaterlovesspam said:


> It couldn't hurt to ask for a few closeup photos of the tip. Or if they're willing to take measurements on their tip using a caliper, I'll measure my KZ tips and then you'll know for sure.
> 
> Although at the link you posted I was able to pull this photo, which looks pretty close to the KZ (same basic 'narrow down' shape anyways):


 
 I emailed VE. I'll post the answer once he replies.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

slaterlovesspam said:


> It couldn't hurt to ask for a few closeup photos of the tip. Or if they're willing to take measurements on their tip using a caliper, I'll measure my KZ tips and then you'll know for sure.
> 
> Although at the link you posted I was able to pull this photo, which looks pretty close to the KZ (same basic 'narrow down' shape anyways):
> 
> ...




I'm pretty sure those are HD 6x0 and will definitely not fit in a kz lol


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> I emailed VE. I'll post the answer once he replies.


 
 OK, in the mean time here's the measurements from the KZ plugs (excuse the quick and dirty drawing; the measurements are accurate):
  

 (click for larger view)


----------



## SHKRIKIUS

shkrikius said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> I postponed buying the S4's from mistertao for too long and today I saw that mistertao.com isn't in the bussiness anymore...
> 
> ...






Anyone?


----------



## actorlife

I read a review on amazon. The guy writes VERY lengthy and informative reviews on KZ earphones and thought the KZ ED3 are great for classical. Do you guys agree? I was thinking the ZST. My ED3 have not arrived yet.


----------



## ricemanhk

Bear in mind with KZs, it's not just the pins that are providing the friction to keep the wire and the earbud together but it's predominantly the wire housing (the female plastic part on the wire) that holds onto the inner plastic part in the earbud (the male plastic part in the earbud).
  
 The shape of the ZST housing is bigger than the ZS3, this is why the ZST wire won't fit the ZS3, while the ZS3 pins will fit into the ZST but without the friction from the 2 plastic parts, will fall out quite easily.
  
 This is also why 3rd party cables will most likely not work well enough unless there's sufficient friction from the pins and the pin housing alone. The pins themselves are 0.75mm ones, like for some older UE IEMs like triplefi10.
  
 Still, @SpiderNhan do report back if your cables work!


----------



## SpiderNhan

I still haven't ordered them as I'm awaiting word from Lee over at VE. Also, the silver upgrade cables from KZ are around $6 for the AliExpress sale in 2 days. Has anyone had success using any third-party cables with their KZs?


----------



## ricemanhk

spidernhan said:


> I still haven't ordered them as I'm awaiting word from Lee over at VE. Also, the silver upgrade cables from KZ are around $6 for the AliExpress sale in 2 days. Has anyone had success using any third-party cables with their KZs?


 
 I've tried my old UE TF10 stock cable and it fits, but like I said, without the plastic housing the wires will pop out with a slight tug, not enough friction from the pins and pin housing alone.
  
 Let's hope the next IEM from KZ will switch to MMCX...


----------



## Enn Jott

spidernhan said:


> Just received a ZS3 and a ZST Colorful (that I needed to vent with a needle) yesterday and I was expecting to like the ZST more, but initial impressions have me leaning toward the ZS3 by a wide margin. The ZST sounds a bit incoherent whereas the ZS3 has a smooth, bassy, easily enjoyable sound. I'm actually pretty surprised by the sonic discrepancy.
> 
> **Update*: Turns out the ZST is source dependant. From a Galaxy S6 Active, Galaxy S3 rooted with Viper4Android and a V-MODA​ Vamp Verza the sound is merely okay. The 10 ohm impedance of the Verza probably doesn't help.
> 
> Plugged into a Dragonfly Red the sound really opens up. The soundstage is huge, for an in ear, and overall sound becomes much more coherent and lively. This may explain the numerous mixed reviews about the ZST. With the proper source they sing and now I'm glad I have both the ZSXs to play with.


 

 May I ask where and how you vented the ZST? Any improvements? And if so, how did it improve? I don't like my ZSTs on my Galaxy S7 (Exynos Version). They do sound a tad better on my Macbook Air (which is a great Source for every Headphone I have an had).


----------



## SpiderNhan

enn jott said:


> May I ask where and how you vented the ZST? Any improvements? And if so, how did it improve? I don't like my ZSTs on my Galaxy S7 (Exynos Version). They do sound a tad better on my Macbook Air (which is a great Source for every Headphone I have an had).



The ZST are vented by design. I noticed a ton of driver flex on my right ear piece, but none on the left, and another member asked if I had checked the vent. It's on the inside of the IEM near the nozzle. You can feel it by running your finger across the surface. The vent on my right ear piece wasn't fully pierced through so I took a needle to it.


----------



## Enn Jott

spidernhan said:


> The ZST are vented by design. I noticed a ton of driver flex on my right ear piece, but none on the left, and another member asked if I had checked the vent. It's on the inside of the IEM near the nozzle. You can feel it by running your finger across the surface. The vent on my right ear piece wasn't fully pierced through so I took a needle to it.


 

 I think i found it and did it rather carefully and somehow it killed all the mids and bass. don't think i damaged anything though. just tried closing the holes again with glue to see if it makes a difference. or maybe i miracly destroyed them... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
*Edit:* Back to normal after closing the holes again... weird... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 still sounding too sharp for me though...


----------



## ricemanhk

spidernhan said:


> The ZST are vented by design. I noticed a ton of driver flex on my right ear piece, but none on the left, and another member asked if I had checked the vent. It's on the inside of the IEM near the nozzle. You can feel it by running your finger across the surface. The vent on my right ear piece wasn't fully pierced through so I took a needle to it.


 
 I see there's a tiny pin hole there, but I'm not sure if that's fully vented as it appears to have something underneath that hole?  I have the colorful ZSTs so the blue plastic might be easier to see for me than the black/carbon one, but it doesn't look like it's vented to me despite the pin hole.
  
 There are also 2 vents along the seam at the back of the ZST, just above where it says ZST HiFi-Armature.  There are 2 slits along that seam that are clearly vents as I can see through them. Someone here actually asked about the seemingly wide seam for the ZST thinking it was a defect, but it's done on purpose to give room for the 2 vents while hiding them to some extent.


----------



## SpiderNhan

enn jott said:


> I think i found it and did it rather carefully and somehow it killed all the mids and bass. don't think i damaged anything though. just tried closing the holes again with glue to see if it makes a difference. or maybe i miracly destroyed them...



Yikes! What did you poke it with? I used a thin sewing needle.

Also, for anyone else reading this, I wasn't trying to modify the sound. I was fixing driver flex. With the right ear piece the needle stopped almost on the surface and I had to slowly etch into it to get any depth. On the left ear piece the needle went right through with no resistance so I didn't push. I just checked that side to confirm that the vent was indeed supposed to be open. Venting the right side I didn't notice any sonic changes, but the driver flex is now completely gone.

As far as sound is concerned the ZST only sounds good to me through the Dragonfly Red. I don't have any pure DAPs or portable sources other my Galaxy S3, repurposed as a DAP, and my daily driver the Galaxy S6 Active. This may be a case of impedance matching the hybrid drivers as the Dragonfly has <0.0 ohm output impedance while I don't know the impedance of my smartphones. The Dragonfly feeding into an Objective 2 amp, also <0 ohm impedance, sounds good too.


----------



## SpiderNhan

ricemanhk said:


> I see there's a tiny pin hole there, but I'm not sure if that's fully vented as it appears to have something underneath that hole?  I have the colorful ZSTs so the blue plastic might be easier to see for me than the black/carbon one, but it doesn't look like it's vented to me despite the pin hole.
> 
> There are also 2 vents along the seam at the back of the ZST, just above where it says ZST HiFi-Armature.  There are 2 slits along that seam that are clearly vents as I can see through them. Someone here actually asked about the seemingly wide seam for the ZST thinking it was a defect, but it's done on purpose to give room for the 2 vents while hiding them to some extent.



Mine are also the Colorful and all I know is the vent on the left side was clear, while the vent on the right side was not. I didn't add any holes. I just completed one that wasn't fully there.


----------



## Enn Jott

spidernhan said:


> Yikes! What did you poke it with? I used a thin sewing needle.
> 
> Also, for anyone else reading this, I wasn't trying to modify the sound. I was fixing driver flex. With the right ear piece the needle stopped almost on the surface and I had to slowly etch into it to get any depth. On the left ear piece the needle went right through with no resistance so I didn't push. I just checked that side to confirm that the vent was indeed supposed to be open. Venting the right side I didn't notice any sonic changes, but the driver flex is now completely gone.
> 
> As far as sound is concerned the ZST only sounds good to me through the Dragonfly Red. I don't have any pure DAPs or portable sources other my Galaxy S3, repurposed as a DAP, and my daily driver the Galaxy S6 Active. This may be a case of impedance matching the hybrid drivers as the Dragonfly has <0.0 ohm output impedance while I don't know the impedance of my smartphones. The Dragonfly feeding into an Objective 2 amp, also <0 ohm impedance, sounds good too.


 

 I used a normal needle. Not too thick though. I really do not now what happened. Especially since the sound is back to normal (as before) now. That being sad. I do not like the Sound w/o EQ on my S7. They do sound better on the macbbook air. Treble is what puts me off though - and sibilance of course. They are fun for electronic music though. and the soundstage is really good too. all in all they are great for the price if you can live with the treble...


----------



## ricemanhk

That's strange. Yet another person complaining about sound quality with Samsung Galaxy S phones...I know the older ones had dedicated DACs built in while the newer ones just use the onboard solution, but I didn't think it would be this bad.  Coz macbook airs are also using just the built in sound card, there's no separate DAC+amp.
  
 I use my ZSTs on my xiaomi mi5, sound is fine.  Of course it's slightly better (a bit fuller and richer) when using it on my desktop with dedicated DAC+amp, but the difference isn't mindblowing with relatively easy to drive IEMs like these.  With larger cans you need more power, but small IEMs are pretty sensitive and low power.  I'm usually using 50-70% volume on my phone with ZST even when walking on the street.


----------



## vegetaleb

About memory foam ear tips, are they supposed to reduce the fall-off problems with earphones like the ATE?
 I got a pair of silicone ear tips with the ZS3, are they considered as memory foam or it should be a foam like texture?
 And finally what is the difference between ATE and ATR? 
 PS: I already have the bassy ATES


----------



## metonedeaf

vegetaleb said:


> About memory foam ear tips, are they supposed to reduce the fall-off problems with earphones like the ATE?
> I got a pair of silicone ear tips with the ZS3, are they considered as memory foam or it should be a foam like texture?
> And finally what is the difference between ATE and ATR?
> PS: I already have the bassy ATES


 
 My experience with foam tip is that once I insert it into my ear, the foam expands and pushes itself out of my ear. Me and foam tip can't get along.


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> About memory foam ear tips, are they supposed to reduce the fall-off problems with earphones like the ATE?
> I got a pair of silicone ear tips with the ZS3, are they considered as memory foam or it should be a foam like texture?
> And finally what is the difference between ATE and ATR?
> PS: I already have the bassy ATES



Not a fan of the ATR seems like they tuned them with a bit less treble. Some say amped brings out the treble. The ATE has better smoother treble but not harsh. ATE, ZST and Zs3 you cant go wrong. ED9 are great but need BI to smoothen out the treble 80hrs at least. ED3 acme need BI same as above.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

actorlife said:


> Some say amped brings out the treble. The ATE has better smoother treble but not harsh. ATE, ZST and Zs3 you cant go wrong.


 
 What's the ATES? Any difference? KZ has too many revisions.


----------



## actorlife

I got mine like 2 weeks ago. Newer version in a box. No case. From what i read in this thread tuning is better than the early version. I think SLSpam has both.


----------



## Slater

laughmoredaily said:


> What's the ATES? Any difference? KZ has too many revisions.


 
 ATE-S is like a regular ATE, just tuned with more emphasis on bass.


----------



## vegetaleb

I think this time I will only buy the Xiaomi mi band 2 from aliexpress, no need to get a new KZ when you already have the best (ZS3 and ATES)
 Too bad they didn't release a new hybrid model


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> I think this time I will only buy the Xiaomi mi band 2 from aliexpress, no need to get a new KZ when you already have the best (ZS3 and ATES)
> Too bad they didn't release a new hybrid model



You need to get the ZST its a dual driver and fantastical. I think i got the best they have to offer till the new STuff arrives. Shhhh slspam.


----------



## Jeff Music

slaterlovesspam said:


> ATE-S is like a regular ATE, just tuned with more emphasis on bass.




So I just have to lower the bass with an equaliser to get the exact same sound as a ATE? Or there is a difference in the mids?


----------



## Slater

jeff music said:


> So I just have to lower the bass with an equaliser to get the exact same sound as a ATE? Or there is a difference in the mids?


 
 Yeah, if you EQ the bass down a bit it seems pretty darn close to me. The treble on the ATE-S is recessed a bit compared to the ATE, so you'd also have to bump that slightly. The mids seem the same to me.
  
 Although if you are planning on doing the EQ work to the ATE-S, you may as well just get the ATE as it's pretty neutral out of the box.
  
 KZ has revised the plain ATE a number of times now (4 revisions to be exact). They pretty much have it dialed in just right. It's comfortable too. I own (2) ATE Gen 1 (1 of which has an open grille mod) and (1) Gen 4.
  
 I don't personally own the ATR, but it's reported to not be as good as the ATE.


----------



## Spelaeus

Recently jumped on two budget hype trains at once and picked up a Philips SHP9500s for home listening and a KZ ZST colorful for portable and office use. It really bugs me to say it, but I think I'm preferring the sound of the ZSTs by a pretty significant margin. I'm still kind of hoping that the Philips will improve with a little more power (mostly listening from a Galaxy S7), but the ZSTs are definitely outperforming my expectations.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I did a little write-up on the KZ ATR, you can find it here. I know, I know, I discovered them way too late


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> I don't personally own the ATR, but it's reported to not be as good as the ATE.


 
  
 ATR is superior to ATE-S if you prefer tighter bass and more detail. I've got both.


----------



## vegetaleb

vidal said:


> ATR is superior to ATE-S if you prefer tighter bass and more detail. I've got both.


 
  
 Looks like ZST is not made for me from the reviews I saw, pretty harsh highs.
 ATR is for a very good price at our friend E*sy but only tomorrow, dunno why most sellers are not releasing deals today


----------



## Vidal

vegetaleb said:


> Looks like ZST is not made for me from the reviews I saw, pretty harsh highs.
> ATR is for a very good price at our friend XXXX but only tomorrow, dunno why most sellers are not releasing deals today


 
  
 You need to remove the reference to that seller.
  
 Buy from Gearbest they're super cheaper all year round. ZST are very bright at the very top end but you can get used to them, just listen to non-bright recordings or EQ the highs. Gradually reintroducing the highs over time.


----------



## mag8

After trying the art, these zs3 fit much better and have a more enjoyable bass response. 
The shape makes it very comfy

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## Jeff Music

Before I place an order for tips and cable, is the star shape tips the best for ZS3?
And do you have to press the mic button all the way down to make it work? I wonder if mine has a factory fault or they are all like that (zs3 grey cable)


----------



## B9Scrambler

jeff music said:


> Before I place an order for tips and cable, is the star shape tips the best for ZS3?
> And do you have to press the mic button all the way down to make it work? I wonder if mine has a factory fault or they are all like that (zs3 grey cable)


 
  
 The star tips are excellent with the ZS3. I recently swapped over to the large size stars from UE mediums. It's a nice match.
  
 The button should depress with a firm click and minimal travel. Sounds like yours has a minor problem. But hey, at least it works, lol.


----------



## SpiderNhan

jeff music said:


> Before I place an order for tips and cable, is the star shape tips the best for ZS3?
> And do you have to press the mic button all the way down to make it work? I wonder if mine has a factory fault or they are all like that (zs3 grey cable)



I'm still experimenting with tips on the ZS3. The star tips are more comfortable than stock, not as sticky and softer, but I still have fit issues as the bass response in my right ear is blocked unless I push down on the IEM a bit. Doing that small adjustment they sound great.

As for the cable, I have this issue as well unless I'm using a smartphone as a source. This isn't a KZ issue as much as it's a TRRS 3.5mm plug issue. Most amps and dedicated DAPs use TRS connectors so cables with buttons will sometimes get screwy. The silver upgrade cable should fix this.

Edit: I read your mic issue as a TRRS incompatibility, and not as an issue with the button itself. My button feels fine and clicky. No need for a deep press for it to register.


----------



## Jeff Music

spidernhan said:


> I'm still experimenting with tips on the ZS3. The star tips are more comfortable than stock, not as sticky and softer, but I still have fit issues as the bass response in my right ear is blocked unless I push down on the IEM a bit. Doing that small adjustment they sound great.
> 
> As for the cable, I have this issue as well unless I'm using a smartphone as a source. This isn't a KZ issue as much as it's a TRRS 3.5mm plug issue. Most amps and dedicated DAPs use TRS connectors so cables with buttons will sometimes get screwy. The silver upgrade cable should fix this.
> 
> Edit: I read your mic issue as a TRRS incompatibility, and not as an issue with the button itself. My button feels fine and clicky. No need for a deep press for it to register.




I don't have this problems with the ATES's button, it's much more sensitive. The silver white cable has a mic?


----------



## SpiderNhan

jeff music said:


> I don't have this problems with the ATES's button, it's much more sensitive. The silver white cable has a mic?



No it does not. Sorry, but I misunderstood your initial post. KZ also sells a stock ZS3 cable on AliExpress. It's around $2 I think.


----------



## obelisk619

Do you gents know how to eliminate the driver flex on the zs3?

 I'm experiencing that a lot when using silicon tips, now I'm currently using the stock kz-ate foam tips on my zs3 but the bass is just not there and the isolation is so-so.

 any TIPS?


----------



## actorlife

obelisk619 said:


> Do you gents know how to eliminate the driver flex on the zs3?
> 
> 
> I'm experiencing that a lot when using silicon tips, now I'm currently using the stock kz-ate foam tips on my zs3 but the bass is just not there and the isolation is so-so.
> ...



from what im reading the foams are the only solution. I read it mostly happens with dynamic drivers, which has never happened to me. Maybe try double flange? Maybe you got a bad pair who knows. If not give the ZST a try it has both amature and dynamic drivers.


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Has anyone summarized this whole thread yet ? The information is all over the place. It's difficult to go through everything. Please share review comparison of all KZ's if available. Thanks.


----------



## Slater

vidal said:


> ATR is superior to ATE-S if you prefer tighter bass and more detail. I've got both.


 
 Sure, I'll order a pair and check them out. I have just about everything else KZ has to offer - may as well complete the collection haha


----------



## Slater

metonedeaf said:


> My experience with foam tip is that once I insert it into my ear, the foam expands and pushes itself out of my ear. Me and foam tip can't get along.


 
 Once you compress the foam tip and insert it into your ear, you have to hold the IEM in place with your finger using slight pressure for a minute on each side. This allows the foam to expand INTO the ear canal, locking it into place and getting an excellent seal. Otherwise, if you don't hold it the foam just expands and pushes OUT of the ear canal.


----------



## actorlife

gunnerwholelife said:


> Has anyone summarized this whole thread yet ? The information is all over the place. It's difficult to go through everything. Please share review comparison of all KZ's if available. Thanks.



Best so far for Me
ZST armature and dynamic drivers
ZS3 Bass heavy 
ATE needs BI time*
ED9 needs BI time*
ED3 Acme needs BI time*
* They need at least 55 to 85hrs to really shine with pink noise and music.
hope this helps ya.
You can als read doc holliday KZ reviews he goes into more depths:
https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ED3-Cancelling-Enthusiasts-Headphones/dp/B00WHSZQNO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490733810&sr=8-1&keywords=Kz+ed3+acme


----------



## VShaft

obelisk619 said:


> Do you gents know how to eliminate the driver flex on the zs3?
> 
> I'm experiencing that a lot when using silicon tips, now I'm currently using the stock kz-ate foam tips on my zs3 but the bass is just not there and the isolation is so-so.
> 
> any TIPS?


 
  
 My ZS3 doesn't exhibit any driver flex whatsoever, neither do my other KZs. The vent on the ZS3 is located on the inner side in the middle depression of the housings. Perhaps something has clogged the holes, a drop of glue during manufacturing (which isn't unheard of)... try inserting a needle, gently and carefully, and maybe clean the vent holes that way (if they are clogged in the first place.)


----------



## SpiderNhan

vshaft said:


> My ZS3 doesn't exhibit any driver flex whatsoever, neither do my other KZs. The vent on the ZS3 is located on the inner side in the middle depression of the housings. Perhaps something has clogged the holes, a drop of glue during manufacturing (which isn't unheard of)... try inserting a needle, gently and carefully, and maybe clean the vent holes that way (if they are clogged in the first place.)



My ZS3 has no driver flex either, but my ZST had a blocked vent on the right ear piece and had massive, aluminum foil at midnight driver flex. A needle fixed it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

gunnerwholelife said:


> Has anyone summarized this whole thread yet ? The information is all over the place. It's difficult to go through everything. Please share review comparison of all KZ's if available. Thanks.


 
  
 You should check the links in my signature. Might find some helpful info there.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sure, I'll order a pair and check them out. I have just about everything else KZ has to offer - may as well complete the collection haha



you'll regret it. Hahaha joyroom jre 109 or Awei ES-900i.


----------



## kokakolia

actorlife said:


> Best so far for Me
> ZST armature and dynamic drivers
> ZS3 Bass heavy
> ATE needs BI time*
> ...




I disagree that it's a simple burn-in with the ED9s. You just have to get used to the anemic hollow sound and the shrill trwble


----------



## VShaft

kokakolia said:


> I disagree that it's a simple burn-in with the ED9s. You just have to get used to the *anemic hollow sound and the shrill trwble*


 
  
 Sounds like something really fun to be getting used to


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> I disagree that it's a simple burn-in with the ED9s. You just have to get used to the anemic hollow sound and the shrill trwble


 
  
 Get over it man, she's moved on with her life you need to do the same.


----------



## Slater

gunnerwholelife said:


> Has anyone summarized this whole thread yet ? The information is all over the place. It's difficult to go through everything. Please share review comparison of all KZ's if available. Thanks.


 
  
 Why is that a difficult proposition?
  
 1. Everyone's tastes are different. They may listen exclusively to classical music, and you like dubstep (which are greatly affected by an IEMs tuning profile). Without example music tracks being listed, how do you know you are going to like your dubstep on their recommended IEM?
  
 2. KZ constantly revises their products without creating a new model designation. 4 different revisions to the ATE, 2 different revisions on the ZST, 2 revisions on the ZS1, etc. So if someone says "I like the ATE" - which ATE did the person have? I say "The ZS1 is recommended for bassheads", but someone else says "No, the ZS1 is not particular bass-heavy". Well, how is anyone going to know that my ZS1 is the original version with the brass ring vs the other person's later ZS1 without the ring? BOTH of us could ave valid opinions, but without those specific details you need to take both of our opinions for a grain of salt.
  
 3. Many people swap tips or mod their IEMs, both of which change the sound. And KZ even includes ways to change the sound, like including foam AND silicone tips with an IEM, offering factory replacement silver plated cables, or the tuning nozzles included with the ED9. So if someone says "The ED9 has lots of bass", but they don't say which nozzles they used, it can cause confusion. Same with the ZST - which cables did they use? How many hours are on the IEM - if it's OOB (out of box) or has 500 hours of play time (or dedicated burn-in), the sound will often be different.
  
 4. Different people hear things differently. Some people are more sensitive to treble or sibilance than others (depending on age, personal tastes, music genre, etc). So if someone says "The ED9 is too bright", well it might be too bright for them but not for you. So you have to take that for a grain of salt too.
  
 5. KZ often has hit or miss QC issues, many of affect the sound. BA drivers that aren't connected, crushed internal sound tubes, drivers wired out of phase, plugged up vent holes - stuff like that. Heck, look at how easily the cables on the ZST and ZS3 can be plugged in backwards without people ever even realizing - now they're out of phase and sound different than if they were plugged in correctly.
  
 6. Many of the IEMs are source dependent, due to impedance rating and amplification. The ZST, for example, sounds quite different on certain models of cell phones vs a high quality DAP with headphone amp. Likewise, if someone says "the ATR has good micro details", it won't do you any good if they were they listening to FLAC or DSD files and you listen to 128kbps MP3 files.
  
 7. Most people don't own all of the models, or are constantly ordering new models. For example, I don't yet have the ATR (on order), ED11, ED12, ATE rev 2, ZS1 rev 2, ED3 Acme, and a few others. So if I say "Here's now I would rate them from best to worst - blah blah", then my list shifts all around once I receive more models.
  
 8. Any 'master summary' would just get buried when the page count increases by 300 pages from where it is currently.
  
 IMO the BEST way to rate them is try them yourself. I mean, the average price is $4-$7. For a measly $20-$30 you can buy 5-6 pairs. Try them yourself and see which ones you prefer. Give the ones you don't like as gifts or keep them as backups. Keep a set at work or in your gym bag so you don't have to lug around your primary pair and risk damage. Use the pair best suited for classical to listen to classical and the pair best suited for rap to listen to rap. Use the pair that sounds best for gaming or watching movies for that purpose. Play around with them to learn how tip rolling or modding them affects the sound. See if burning them in (or brain burn-in) makes them sound any better. That's part of the fun of being a headphone enthusiast.


----------



## actorlife

vidal said:


> Get over it man, she's moved on with her life you need to do the same. :tongue_smile:



who ya talking to yes sir?


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> I disagree that it's a simple burn-in with the ED9s. You just have to get used to the anemic hollow sound and the shrill trwble


 
  
 It always seems that the ED9 is one of the more polarizing IEMs - lots of people love 'em & swear by them, others despise them.
  
 They have modding options (beyond simply swapping the nozzles) to change the sound. Something to think about for those that have them gathering dust in a drawer somewhere...


----------



## Vidal

actorlife said:


> who ya talking to yes sir?


 
  
 kokakolia - just teasing him as he's really got it in for the ED9


----------



## actorlife

vidal said:


> kokakolia - just teasing him as he's really got it in for the ED9



I know just joshing with ya.


----------



## Vidal

actorlife said:


> I know just joshing with ya.


 
  
 <off topic>
  
 I thought joshing was a UK term, so I was surprised that you used it. Google'd it and it turns out it's not UK in origin, it's an Americanism. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Every day's a school day.
  
 /<off topic>


----------



## actorlife

vidal said:


> I thought joshing was a UK term, so I was surprised that you used it. Google'd it and it turns out it's not UK in origin, it's an Americanism. :eek:  Every day's a school day.
> 
> /




Indeed it is. On another topic these ED3 acme are Really NICE NOW. Opened up good.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Why is that a difficult proposition?
> 
> 1. Everyone's tastes are different. They may listen exclusively to classical music, and you like dubstep (which are greatly affected by an IEMs tuning profile). Without example music tracks being listed, how do you know you are going to like your dubstep on their recommended IEM?
> 
> ...



SO your top 5 KZ today?


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> SO your top 5 KZ today?


 
  
 I divide what I listen to into 2 categories, and have preferred IEMs for each:
  
 1. EDM, trance, techno, rave, dubstep, DnB, industrial, and house. For this I prefer a generally signature with an emphasis on bass, treble that's not overly bright/shrill.
 2. 'Rock' (guitar-heavy w/vocals) - punk, new wave, dark wave, classic rock, heavy/speed/death metal. For this I typically prefer a neutral signature, detailed, wide soundstage, and good instrument separation.
  
 I have other non-KZ IEMs that I really like (MEMT X5, Rock Zircon, Xiaomi HD Pro), but if I had to pick my top KZ-only for each category, it would be as follows:
  
 1. ZS1 (1st gen ie brass ring), ZS3 (w/silver upgrade cable), ATE (2nd gen w/open grille mod), EDSE (w/open grille mod), and W1 Pro (port mods). I use KZ Starline tips on all in this category.
 2. ANV (2nd gen w/foam nozzle mod), ZN1 Mini, ZST (2nd gen w/silver upgrade cable), HDS1, and ED9 (gold nozzle, with fiberfill & grille mods). I use memory foam or wide-bore KZ Turbo tips in this category.
  
 Source is Xduoo X3 with FiiO E12A Mont Blanc headphone amp. Files are all mostly FLAC, with some 320k MP3.


----------



## obelisk619

actorlife said:


> from what im reading the foams are the only solution. I read it mostly happens with dynamic drivers, which has never happened to me. Maybe try double flange? Maybe you got a bad pair who knows. If not give the ZST a try it has both amature and dynamic drivers.


 
  


vshaft said:


> My ZS3 doesn't exhibit any driver flex whatsoever, neither do my other KZs. The vent on the ZS3 is located on the inner side in the middle depression of the housings. Perhaps something has clogged the holes, a drop of glue during manufacturing (which isn't unheard of)... try inserting a needle, gently and carefully, and maybe clean the vent holes that way (if they are clogged in the first place.)


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback and yes I do have a zst and I like it's fit and the fact that it doesn't have driver flex but I like the zs3's sq more so yeah. I'll just have to make do with foam tips coz even double flange still has driver flex.


----------



## Slater

obelisk619 said:


> Thanks for the feedback and yes I do have a zst and I like it's fit and the fact that it doesn't have driver flex but I like the zs3's sq more so yeah. I'll just have to make do with foam tips coz even double flange still has driver flex.


 
  
 Have you thought about contacting the seller where you got the ZS3 from? Like VShaft, my ZS3 has zero driver flex. And driver flex does reduce the life of the IEM, so if you just recently received them it's worth a shot to see if you can get them replaced (especially if you got them from a reputable seller like Gearbest).


----------



## VShaft

obelisk619 said:


> Thanks for the feedback and yes I do have a zst and I like it's fit and the fact that it doesn't have driver flex but I like the zs3's sq more so yeah. I'll just have to make do with foam tips coz even double flange still has driver flex.


 

 Did you actually try "poking" in and around the ventholes with a needle to see if something was indeed clogging it.? It's a cost-free and time-saving solution, before making any refund/replacement requests.


----------



## vegetaleb

Finally I think I will just order KZ star tips and W1 Pro if I find a seller who sells both on AE.
 YEs I checked Gearbest but it's always more expensive, dunno why but it's always 30% more for us in Lebanon than for other people in this forum.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Best so far for Me
> ZST armature and dynamic drivers
> ZS3 Bass heavy
> ATE needs BI time*
> ...


 where the atr though? This iem should be with the ate or on top of ate.


----------



## SpiderNhan

spidernhan said:


> I'm still experimenting with tips on the ZS3. The star tips are more comfortable than stock, not as sticky and softer, *but I still have fit issues as the bass response in my right ear is blocked unless I push down on the IEM a bit. Doing that small adjustment they sound great.*



Found out it has nothing to do with the tips. My ZS3 has a major channel imbalance. This is how much I need to compensate.

Sounds almost correct but bass is a bit lighter still in the right ear. Maybe I just need another ZS3...


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> Found out it has nothing to do with the tips. My ZS3 has a major channel imbalance. This is how much I need to compensate.
> 
> Sounds almost correct but bass is a bit lighter still in the right ear. Maybe I just need another ZS3...


 
  
 Wow, that's pretty bad. KZ does have a lot of QC issues with channel imbalances (I have a few myself).
  
 Also check to make sure the vent isn't blocked on the right side.
  
 What about contacting the seller to get them exchanged for a working ZS3?


----------



## vegetaleb

So the stars shape tips will reduce the bass on ZS3?
 If not which tips will?


----------



## SpiderNhan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Wow, that's pretty bad. KZ does have a lot of QC issues with channel imbalances (I have a few myself).
> 
> Also check to make sure the vent isn't blocked on the right side.
> 
> What about contacting the seller to get them exchanged for a working ZS3?



I'll try doing that. 2 weeks back to China, 2 weeks for the new pair, 4 weeks to play with the ZST!


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> So the stars shape tips will reduce the bass on ZS3?
> If not which tips will?


 
 No, Star tips INCREASE bass.
  
 To reduce bass, you want wide bore nozzles (like the KZ Turbos):
  

  
 Although ZS3 is one of the bassier IEMs KZ offers, so the Turbos will only reduce it so much. If you find the ZS3 still too bassy even with the Turbo tips, give the ZST or ATR a try.
  
 Some people also say memory foam tips decreases bass, but I've found the opposite to be true (I assume because they seal so tight).


----------



## vegetaleb

slaterlovesspam said:


> No, Star tips INCREASE bass.
> 
> To reduce bass, you want wide bore nozzles (like the KZ Turbos):
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have found some wide bore tips but dunno if they are wide enough like the one you posted?
  
 Here on the ZS3

  
 And against a classic tip


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> I have found some wide bore tips but dunno if they are wide enough like the one you posted?
> 
> Here on the ZS3
> 
> And against a classic tip


 
  
 Yes, those are wide bore. The Turbos just have some fins inside which strengthen the structure of the tip and provide a more secure fit/seal. But if you're just trying to test how much a wide-bore tip reduces bass, the ones you have installed in the photo will do the job just fine.
  
 Keep us posted with your findings, as others will be in the same boat at some point.


----------



## OZZERO

actorlife said:


> you'll regret it. Hahaha joyroom jre 109 or Awei ES-900i.


 
 Have you tried the Joyroom JRE 109?


----------



## RvTrav

Quote: 





spidernhan said:


> Found out it has nothing to do with the tips. My ZS3 has a major channel imbalance. This is how much I need to compensate.
> 
> Sounds almost correct but bass is a bit lighter still in the right ear. Maybe I just need another ZS3...


 

 ​Along with the other suggestions here, I have found that when I experience channel imbalance for me it usually occurs only in my left ear and occurs when tips are deeply inserted.  So it appears that in my case it is caused by how the structure of my inner ear impacts the tip.  What I have done to correct this is I cut a small ring from an unused tip and place it on the nozzle as a spacer.  I have attached a photo.  I used a piece cut from a blue tip so you can see it easier, if you use a black piece it will not be noticeable once you put the tip on.   I have had to use this on a few of my earphones to get a proper fit.  With the a little shallower insertion you also might find the bass calmed just a bit.  Easy no cost option to try.


----------



## vegetaleb

Well yes it's less boomy but not a big difference, it's like the bass compression boom effect decrease of about 15-20%.
 Dunno if the highs were always so high but now with some songs it's a bit irritable.
 So yes I still have to use the V4A equalizer to reduce bass and treble


----------



## Mus1c

Why somebody who doesn't like bass heavy iem and decided to buy it. If you don't like the bass heavy iem why don't you get the kz atr or non bass heavy iem.To the guy who asking to reduce the bass you cannot fix it they already tune the zs3 to bass heavy you cannot fix it by changing some tips although it can but it not significantly reduce the bass.


----------



## Jeff Music

I am not a heavy basshead but I like to have quality bass without bleeding on the mids, I got the zs3 for the memory wires, very nice soundstage and mids, and of course price. Thanks to tips change and equalizing I can reduce the 20-30% bass that I find bleeding into mids and win a superb pair of earphones.
ATR are not that good given the reviews


----------



## Mus1c

jeff music said:


> I am not a heavy basshead but I like to have quality bass without bleeding on the mids, I got the zs3 for the memory wires, very nice soundstage and mids, and of course price. Thanks to tips change and equalizing I can reduce the 20-30% bass that I find bleeding into mids and win a superb pair of earphones.
> ATR are not that good given the reviews


really! im currently using the atr right now they sound good even better than ate and balanced than kz zs3 you had with that big over bloated bass you currently no enjoyed i suggest to try the atr or mybe ate they're the safest choice.


----------



## actorlife

ozzero said:


> Have you tried the Joyroom JRE 109?



I just ordered a pair last night along with the Awei 900i and a cheap 1.94 fun green iem with vol control looks nice i doubt the sq will be good. Who knows might be a gem in the rough. Both are said to nice in bass mids and highs. We will see. 
On another note Im Really digging those ED3 acme pretty good with all gens too. Very impressed for such a cheap iem. NOW those 2 tips SLSpam can get them on ebay? I think i only saw the turbines when i looked a couple weeks back.


----------



## obelisk619

slaterlovesspam said:


> Have you thought about contacting the seller where you got the ZS3 from? Like VShaft, my ZS3 has zero driver flex. And driver flex does reduce the life of the IEM, so if you just recently received them it's worth a shot to see if you can get them replaced (especially if you got them from a reputable seller like Gearbest).


 
  
 nah, I've already opened the zs3 anyway (had to resolder the drivers connection to the terminal) and I don't want the trouble of replacing/refunding it anyway. Foam tips works fine so I'll just have to live with it hehe.
  


vshaft said:


> Did you actually try "poking" in and around the ventholes with a needle to see if something was indeed clogging it.? It's a cost-free and time-saving solution, before making any refund/replacement requests.


 
 Not just poke but I've opened it. It seems that the "tube" is glued to the drivers opening so there's little to no vent on the driver inside even though the zs3 has a tiny hole.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> where the atr though? This iem should be with the ate or on top of ate.



I may give the ATR another chance just the issue of less bit treble bothers me as they seem clogged though physically they are not. I like my EP crystal clear treble without harshness and sibilance.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> I divide what I listen to into 2 categories, and have preferred IEMs for each:
> 
> 1. EDM, trance, techno, rave, dubstep, DnB, industrial, and house. For this I prefer a generally signature with an emphasis on bass, treble that's not overly bright/shrill.
> 2. 'Rock' (guitar-heavy w/vocals) - punk, new wave, dark wave, classic rock, heavy/speed/death metal. For this I typically prefer a neutral signature, detailed, wide soundstage, and good instrument separation.
> ...



I never heard of some of those im shocked the ZST are not highly used in those 2 gens you like. ZS1 and ANV that good eh? I may look into getting them in a couple of month$. Can i see your mods of those?


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> I never heard of some of those im shocked the ZST are not highly used in those 2 gens you like. ZS1 and ANV that good eh? I may look into getting them in a couple of month$. Can i see your mods of those?


 
  
 Nah, don't read too much into it - they are pretty close to one another, so in a lot of ways it's splitting hairs. This is the reason for #4 of my 'why summary lists can be deceiving':
  
_4. Different people hear things differently. Some people are more sensitive to treble or sibilance than others (depending on age, personal tastes, music genre, etc). So if someone says "The ED9 is too bright", well it might be too bright for them but not for you. So you have to take that for a grain of salt too._
  
 Don't get me wrong, I like the ZST and use it from time to time. But I just prefer the ANV and ZN1 slightly more. Some of it is due to comfort (especially the ZN1), but strictly looking at sound they other 2 just sound more neutral and balanced to me. The bass on the ZST is a little too recessed and the treble a tad too forward in comparison. Remember that you can adjust all of this in EQ.
  
 As far as the ZS1 (1st gen), I think it should be on every basshead's bucket list to experience in their lifetime before they die LOL. It is the bass king, plain and simple, and the sound is just heavenly. And it's ridiculously comfortable, even though the "custom IEM" looking ZS3/ZST looks like it would be more comfortable. I've done zero mods to the ZS1 except change the tips to the KZ Starlines due to fit/comfort - it doesn't need anything else. Remember, the ZS3 is a natural evolution of the ZS1 - so if you like the ZS3, you will love the ZS1.
  
 The ZS1 1st gen also has a crossover in it, which was deleted for the 2nd gen. It is obviously these 2 things (crossover and brass ring) that are the reason why the ZS1 1st gen sounds so amazing. If I ever found another set to buy as a backup, I would in a New York minute.
  
 I can't speak for the ZS2 or the ZS1 2nd gen because I've never heard them for myself. It is reported that the ZS1 2nd gen sounds identical to the ZN1 Mini because for the ZS1 2nd gen KZ deleted the brass ring & crossover. And since the two share the same cases & drivers, they effectively ARE the 'same'! You'll have to look around carefully and ask a seller to verify that it is indeed a 1st Gen. It's very easy to tell visually - the 1st gen has a brass ring (and no mesh screen) that you can see right through the bore of the tip, like this:

  
 As far as the ANV, it's one of KZ's old models and is no longer available. The mod is simply a practically microscopic piece of acoustic foam in the IEM nozzle (or even silicone tip if the nozzle has a mesh cover). You basically use the mod to knock down and smooth out an IEM with overly harsh treble, and the effect can be fine tuned by using different types and densities of foam. The foam from a sponge earpad works great (like this: http://imgur.com/hQ5Xzcq), and 1 set of pads will provide enough to mod 500+ IEMs LOL. It's the same idea as the foam in the gold nozzle of the ED9. Another member (B9Scrambler) used a small piece of fabric (same idea as the foam). The mod looks like this (B9Scrambler's photo, who gave me the idea to try it on the ANV):
  

  
 - Slater


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Nah, don't read too much into it - they are pretty close to one another, so in a lot of ways it's splitting hairs. This is the reason for #4 of my 'why summary lists can be deceiving':
> 
> _4. Different people hear things differently. Some people are more sensitive to treble or sibilance than others (depending on age, personal tastes, music genre, etc). So if someone says "The ED9 is too bright", well it might be too bright for them but not for you. So you have to take that for a grain of salt too._
> 
> ...



As always a through report thanks slater. Hopefully I'll get to try the the 1st gen ZS1 before a bear attack. Run Leo! Zoinks. Edit just looked on ebay and mostly saw the newer ZS1 with 4 holes. OH.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Gearbest is awesome! They offered to refund me in full or send me a new one without the need to return the defective ZS3. I will definitely be buying from them again.


----------



## Lorspeaker

whats the dev on the new multidriver iem from KZ??


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> Gearbest is awesome! They offered to refund me in full or send me a new one without the need to return the defective ZS3. I will definitely be buying from them again.


 
  
 Glad it worked out for you! I would never hesitate to contact them if you receive something that isn't right. I've had nothing but positive experiences with Gearbest, and have bought hundreds of items from them. They've always been very eager to resolve issues with me.


----------



## Slater

lorspeaker said:


> whats the dev on the new multidriver iem from KZ??


 
  
 Can you be more specific? New as in literally brand new? Or new as in the newEST?
  
 Unless they just released something today, the newEST multi-driver that I'm aware of is the ZST (DD+BA):
  

  
 You know something from the top-secret KZ Skunkworks lab that none of us know about yet?


----------



## Shawn71

slaterlovesspam said:


> Can you be more specific? New as in literally brand new? Or new as in the newEST?
> 
> Unless they just released something today, the newEST multi-driver that I'm aware of is the ZST (DD+BA):
> 
> ...




lol......looks like you havent heard of what he had asked for may be? -zsr-pro!!!


----------



## Slater

shawn71 said:


> lol......looks like you havent heard of what he had asked for may be? -zsr-pro!!!


 
  
 Holy moly! 10-driver sign me up
  

  
 Sign me up!


----------



## ricemanhk

Still no official news of ZSR...even the new BT LP5 headphones are still not yet launched.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife so i did receive the zs3 this morning and let them burn for couple hours and than try it on, wat can i say they're the boom and the bass is top notch not so overly bloated bass very control and awsome. All hail to bass kingz!!.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Holy moly! 10-driver sign me up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 THE HYPE IS REAL BRO!!.


----------



## OZZERO

actorlife said:


> I just ordered a pair last night along with the Awei 900i and a cheap 1.94 fun green iem with vol control looks nice i doubt the sq will be good. Who knows might be a gem in the rough. Both are said to nice in bass mids and highs. We will see.
> On another note Im Really digging those ED3 acme pretty good with all gens too. Very impressed for such a cheap iem. NOW those 2 tips SLSpam can get them on ebay? I think i only saw the turbines when i looked a couple weeks back.


 
 Cool. Interested to hear what you think about them.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Holy moly! 10-driver sign me up
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh No. Hopefully not till June. Nice to see a box makes It official. I see who is gonna have these first. HahHaha


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> actorlife so i did receive the zs3 this morning and let them burn for couple hours and than try it on, wat can i say they're the boom and the bass is top notch not so overly bloated bass very control and awsome. All hail to bass kingz!!.



SO you don't like them shame. Hahaha. I was listening to them 2 days ago and heard a bit of shrill BI them for a couple of days. Though the bass kicks arzz. Did you take off the burgundy grill? I take them off if they have them on the KZ. Clearer to me. Enjoy.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> SO you don't like them shame. Hahaha. I was listening to them 2 days ago and heard a bit of shrill BI them for a couple of days. Though the bass kicks arzz. Did you take off the burgundy grill? I take them off if they have them on the KZ. Clearer to me. Enjoy.


 no i don't hear anything shrill with my zs3 and about the burgundy grill nope i don't modified anything just stock zs3.why do you take them off though does it change anything?.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> no i don't hear anything shrill with my zs3 and about the burgundy grill nope i don't modified anything just stock zs3.why do you take them off though does it change anything?.



Makes them a bit clearer to me. Just use a needle to take it out. If you don't like stick them back on. Just a bit of shrill nothing that harsh. Just want to leave some music playing for a couple of days SO they open up some.


----------



## obelisk619

slaterlovesspam said:


> Holy moly! 10-driver sign me up
> 
> 
> 
> Sign me up!


 
  
 Sign me up too, hope this goes for below 200$, knowing kz is one of the best budget makers out there.


----------



## VShaft

obelisk619 said:


> Sign me up too, hope this goes for below 200$, knowing kz is one of the best budget makers out there.


 
  
 $89, I think, is the rumored price.


----------



## Jeff Music

Anyone has the HD9? How does it compare to ATES and ZS3?


----------



## actorlife

jeff music said:


> Anyone has the HD9? How does it compare to ATES and ZS3?



I have ED9 and like it took over 70hrs with music and pink noise to calm down the treble shrill harshness. While its nice I think you should consider the ZST. Fantastic clean detail highs mids and great bass. You already got the other best now add the KING and you're good. If you go a couple pages back i give my top fav. Also depends on what music you listen too as well. Got the ed9 on ear listening to paul simon. YES. Wait you said HD9 whoops nope dont have it. I think slater may have them stay tuned.


----------



## Jeff Music

actorlife said:


> I have ED9 and like it took over 70hrs with music and pink noise to calm down the treble shrill harshness. While its nice I think you should consider the ZST. Fantastic clean detail highs mids and great bass. You already got the other best now add the KING and you're good. If you go a couple pages back i give my top fav. Also depends on what music you listen too as well. Got the ed9 on ear listening to paul simon. YES. Wait you said HD9 whoops nope dont have it. I think slater may have them stay tuned.




I listen mostly to trance and psychedelic trance


----------



## actorlife

If you have the ZS3 or Rock Zicron or Joyroom JRE 109 these are the ones you need. All of them are bass driven with great detail mids highs and did i say BASS, Jeff? I just ordered the last two. Give my impressions in 2 weeks of both hopefully. Slater will chime in hopefully since he is a big fan of the music you listen to.
This page has reviews of the ones i mentioned they go by company name: https://audiobudget.com/brand.php


----------



## Jeff Music

What about the whirlwind blue tips? Apart the advantage to reduce a bit the bass, does it give a better seal in ears?


----------



## RvTrav

Jeff Music  I have the QKZ DM200 in black and KZ HD9 in white.  Other than colour they are both the same and sound the same.  I don't have the ATE-S but I do have the ATR and the DM200 and HD9 have more forward mids and a tighter bass (similar quality to ZS3 but less quantity).  Personally I prefer the DM200 and HD9 to the ATR since I find them a more fun earphone.  The shell of the DM200 and HD9 is slightly different that the ATR but fit is very similar.  It is too bad the HD9 has not seen more interest is this thread, the forward mids make vocals stand out and the tighter bass doesn't bleed into the mids.  Considering they are priced between 5 & 6 dollars us. a real bargain in my opinion.


----------



## actorlife

jeff music said:


> What about the whirlwind blue tips? Apart the advantage to reduce a bit the bass, does it give a better seal in ears?



Both are said to have a tight fit. I only have the starline bass one and they fit nicely.


----------



## Slater

jeff music said:


> What about the whirlwind blue tips? Apart the advantage to reduce a bit the bass, does it give a better seal in ears?


 
 I get the best seal from the Starlines, but I do have the Turbos/Whirlwinds installed on a few IEMs. Everyone's ears is different, so YMMV.
  
 Something I'll mention about the Turbos/Whirlwinds for those that use them. I've noticed that a number of mine have torn/separated right at the top where the main body meets the blue flange. Some of them were brand new right from the sealed baggie. It's hard to notice unless you tug on the silicone bell to reveal the tear. I don't know if it was a QC fluke, or a manufacturing defect with a particular batch, but I would recommend that you take a look at yours to make sure they're OK. I can post a photo to show you what it looks like if anyone's interested.


----------



## Jeff Music

slaterlovesspam said:


> I get the best seal from the Starlines, but I do have the Turbos/Whirlwinds installed on a few IEMs. Everyone's ears is different, so YMMV.
> 
> Something I'll mention about the Turbos/Whirlwinds for those that use them. I've noticed that a number of mine have torn/separated right at the top where the main body meets the blue flange. Some of them were brand new right from the sealed baggie. It's hard to notice unless you tug on the silicone bell to reveal the tear. I don't know if it was a QC fluke, or a manufacturing defect with a particular batch, but I would recommend that you take a look at yours to make sure they're OK. I can post a photo to show you what it looks like if anyone's interested.




And compared to the ones posted by vegetaleb 2 pages back, they look as wide for less bass but you said it has a better seal, you mean a seal on the iem or in the ear canals?


----------



## Slater

jeff music said:


> And compared to the ones posted by vegetaleb 2 pages back, they look as wide for less bass but you said it has a better seal, you mean a seal on the iem or in the ear canals?


 
  
 Yeah, I saw vegetaleb's photo, but I don't think he said where they came from.
  
 As far as my 'better seal' comment, I meant ear canal. The KZ Turbos have the same size bottom part as the Starlines (ie the part that fits onto the IEM nozzle). It seems to be the most common size out there (pretty sure it's 5mm).


----------



## obelisk619

vshaft said:


> $89, I think, is the rumored price.


 
 Hope that's true, all we have to wait for now is the release and of course how good the implementation will be, (hope it's a hybrid dd+multiple BA)


----------



## vegetaleb

actorlife said:


> Makes them a bit clearer to me. Just use a needle to take it out. If you don't like stick them back on. Just a bit of shrill nothing that harsh. Just want to leave some music playing for a couple of days SO they open up some.


 
  
 Thanks!
 Tried it with my ZS3, and dunno if it's placebo or not but bass was less muddy and mids were like liberated!!
 Put it back and the muddy bass was too, it looks like the red filter is too thick and increase the feeling of boom bass
 So if you are a basshead keep the red filter, for people like me who want a slightly less boomy bass it's perfect.
 Though I have to do further test, I will try with the thin filter from Hifiman


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks!
> Tried it with my ZS3, and dunno if it's placebo or not but bass was less muddy and mids were like liberated!!
> Put it back and the muddy bass was too, it looks like the red filter is too thick and increase the feeling of boom bass
> So if you are a basshead keep the red filter, for people like me who want a slightly less boomy bass it's perfect.
> Though I have to do further test, I will try with the thin filter from Hifiman


 
  
 Red filter? On the KZ ZS3?


----------



## SpiderNhan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Red filter? On the KZ ZS3?



The red piece of foam that is installed in the nozzle. He removed it.


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> The red piece of foam that is installed in the nozzle. He removed it.


 
 Hmmm, never really messed with that because I didn't want to leave the red screen out.
  
 Does the red screen go back in, or are you guys leaving it out altogether?


----------



## vegetaleb

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hmmm, never really messed with that because I didn't want to leave the red screen out.
> 
> Does the red screen go back in, or are you guys leaving it out altogether?


 
  
 Well you can take it out and put it back very easily, it's like a piece of rubber and it still has stickiness even after taking it out, now if you are afraid that dust go inside then you could stick a much thinner filter from another iem.


----------



## vegetaleb

Ok tested again this time with Flac and 320kbps songs.
 Obviously the bass is *much* lower now, the boom room effect is totally gone!!
 Though the problem now is that treble (highs) are too harsh now, you will definitely need to decrease them with  an equalizer.
 I replaced the red filters with the Hifiman ones, it didn't change the sound at all but now it's protected against dust and dirt.
 So to conclude: With the red filters the ZS3 are too boomy with a very slight harsh highs for people who aren't bassheads  the fix is to use of an equalizer to reduce bass and slightly treble.
 Without the red filters, bassheads will not like it because they will loose the full boom effect so this mod is non-sense to them, but for others they will still have to use an equalizer to reduce even more treble but they can keep bass untouched this time.
  
 See how transparent are the Hifiman filters while the KZ are thick


----------



## Mus1c

Oh boy this zs3 are hurting my ears for a couple minutes of wearing them.Have anybody had the same problem with zs3?.


----------



## Shinry

mus1c said:


> Oh boy this zs3 are hurting my ears for a couple minutes of wearing them.Have anybody had the same problem with zs3?.


 
 Contrary:
 ZS3 fit like a glove, ZST and ATR are not wearable for more than a few minutes.


----------



## Mus1c

shinry said:


> Contrary:
> ZS3 fit like a glove, ZST and ATR are not wearable for more than a few minutes. :blink:


 with my ears the zs3 are hell hurt like shoving my ear with rock but with the atr im okay with it not hurt and can wear them like a day with no problem.Maybe i have small ears that didn't fit the zs3 i think thats the case thats hurt my ears.


----------



## SpiderNhan

mus1c said:


> with my ears the zs3 are hell hurt like shoving my ear with rock but with the atr im okay with it not hurt and can wear them like a day with no problem.Maybe i have small ears that didn't fit the zs3 i think thats the case thats hurt my ears.


 
 Which tips are you using? I find the stock ZS3 tips painful after some time. Using them with the ZST Star tips are better, but still get uncomfortable after an hour or so. For me it's foam all the way. Once the foam is in they both the ZS3 and ZST disappear into my head.


----------



## Mus1c

spidernhan said:


> Which tips are you using? I find the stock ZS3 tips painful after some time. Using them with the ZST Star tips are better, but still get uncomfortable after an hour or so. For me it's foam all the way. Once the foam is in they both the ZS3 and ZST disappear into my head.


yea i tried the stock tips which is nothing problem with it but i think the part that hurt my ears are the shape and the cable,the cable is very hard and the shape is too bulky my ear are small btw yea thats the problem but i will try foam tips to see any difference .


----------



## Drakis

mus1c said:


> yea i tried the stock tips which is nothing problem with it but i think the part that hurt my ears are the shape and the cable,the cable is very hard and the shape is too bulky my ear are small btw yea thats the problem but i will try foam tips to see any difference .


 

 For me foam is the (only) way to go. I don't get a good seal without foam tips on any of the KZ earbuds.


----------



## obelisk619

mus1c said:


> Oh boy this zs3 are hurting my ears for a couple minutes of wearing them.Have anybody had the same problem with zs3?.


 
 Part of my ear hurts sometimes too, though I only feel it after an hour of so of wearing zs3. For reference, here's the part where I feel that slight pain
  

 (picture source: google images)


----------



## Mus1c

obelisk619 said:


> Part of my ear hurts sometimes too, though I only feel it after an hour of so of wearing zs3. For reference, here's the part where I feel that slight pain
> 
> 
> 
> (picture source: google images)


yes that really true it hurts that part of my ears i only got to listen to this iem just litlebit of time and they're to bulky and hard.


----------



## actorlife

I have small ears too they hurt a bit then after while the ZS3 are good. I have yet to use the starline tips that came with the ZST on the ZS3 may try them soon. Maybe attach a bit of foam on the ZS3 body to ease the pain?


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> Ok tested again this time with Flac and 320kbps songs.
> Obviously the bass is *much* lower now, the boom room effect is totally gone!!
> Though the problem now is that treble (highs) are too harsh now, you will definitely need to decrease them with  an equalizer.
> I replaced the red filters with the Hifiman ones, it didn't change the sound at all but now it's protected against dust and dirt.
> ...



Glad you like them better. The treble is gonna smooth out with time used. Where do i get those hifi tips? Got a link?


----------



## vegetaleb

actorlife said:


> Glad you like them better. The treble is gonna smooth out with time used. Where do i get those hifi tips? Got a link?


 
  
 I have them from the Hifiman RE 262 box (got them 4 years ago)
 Dunno if you can buy them on aliexpress
 Why not doing some holes in the red filters?


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> I have them from the Hifiman RE 262 box (got them 4 years ago)
> Dunno if you can buy them on aliexpress
> Why not doing some holes in the red filters?



Did not find them. Just wanted to try them out. No biggie though i clean my iem often.


----------



## actorlife

OH. Got a package on the table could it be the KZ ED3? Will report later.
EDIT. Its not the ED3 s. Whoa these are in the same league as the ZS3 perhaps better and more comfy. Played a bunch of gens and they are versatile. Jazz Pop Classical Latin amazing sq and truly out the box sounds great. Might do some music over night to see if they sound any better. I like the plug alot and the rope type cord. BASS is amazing and does not overpower anything. These got here quick from China.10 days dang fast. Guess the iem?


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> OH. Got a package on the table could it be the KZ ED3? Will report later.
> EDIT. Its not the ED3 s. Whoa these are in the same league as the ZS3 perhaps better and more comfy. Played a bunch of gens and they are versatile. Jazz Pop Classical Latin amazing sq and truly out the box sounds great. Might do some music over night to see if they sound any better. I like the plug alot and the rope type cord. BASS is amazing and does not overpower anything. These got here quick from China.10 days dang fast. Guess the iem?


well not ed3 and wat it is then?


----------



## vegetaleb

actorlife said:


> Glad you like them better. The treble is gonna smooth out with time used. Where do i get those hifi tips? Got a link?


 
  
 About the treble, I just burned the ZS3 at max volume for 4 hours yesterday on my Cowon J3, tried them again on my HTC 10 it was indeed smoother, then I chose ''Other'' instead of HTC studio earphones in the Boomsound menu and the treble is nearly perfect now!!! No need for an equalizer anymore.
 Bass is high enough for my taste, deep and detailed and boomy when it should in some songs (not like before creating a fake boom room effect with any song), mids are finally liberated as bass doesn't bleed in anymore.
 Will give it more time, but from the sound of it this mod is the one you should do if you are not a basshead and want to enjoy your ZS3 to the max


----------



## Mus1c

Anyone know how remove the memory wire on the zs3?.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> well not ed3 and wat it is then?



Rock Zircon amazing the tips are also fantastic. They are wider and fit just perfect. Im gonna try thr tips on the ZS3 and see if the comfort is just as good. Get a pair NOW you won't regret them. Darn ED3 taking a long time. If not here by next week gonna ask for a refund.


----------



## actorlife

vegetaleb said:


> About the treble, I just burned the ZS3 at max volume for 4 hours yesterday on my Cowon J3, tried them again on my HTC 10 it was indeed smoother, then I chose ''Other'' instead of HTC studio earphones in the Boomsound menu and the treble is nearly perfect now!!! No need for an equalizer anymore.
> Bass is high enough for my taste, deep and detailed and boomy when it should in some songs (not like before creating a fake boom room effect with any song), mids are finally liberated as bass doesn't bleed in anymore.
> Will give it more time, but from the sound of it this mod is the one you should do if you are not a basshead and want to enjoy your ZS3 to the max



Glad they worked out for ya. NOW get the Rock Zircon and be even more content.


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> Anyone know how remove the memory wire on the zs3?.


 
 Very slowly & carefully so you don't nick the actual IEM wires.
  
 The memory wire is just a piece of thin bendable solid wire in a piece of heat shrink. You can use anything that cuts to snip through the heat shrink, from your teeth to a razor to nail clippers.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Glad they worked out for ya. NOW get the Rock Zircon and be even more content.


 
 The MEMT X5 are nice too. They rank right up there with the Zircon.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> The MEMT X5 are nice too. They rank right up there with the Zircon.



 No mo IEM's slater think I'm good for now. I await your review on the ZSR though. The Joyroom and 900i should be here a week or so. I wanna see what the Joyroom do. Those RZ tip I may order a few if I can find them.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Very slowly & carefully so you don't nick the actual IEM wires.
> 
> The memory wire is just a piece of thin bendable solid wire in a piece of heat shrink. You can use anything that cuts to snip through the heat shrink, from your teeth to a razor to nail clippers.


 can you give step by step? Or picture of walktrough to remove the wire.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Very slowly & carefully so you don't nick the actual IEM wires.
> 
> The memory wire is just a piece of thin bendable solid wire in a piece of heat shrink. You can use anything that cuts to snip through the heat shrink, from your teeth to a razor to nail clippers.


I've done it the results are pretty comfy and not irritating the ears anymore thanks


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> I've done it the results are pretty comfy and not irritating the ears anymore thanks



How dare you picpicpic. In other news the ATR NOW = Treble. Finally. I tried the RZ tips on the ZS3 and other iem's I've collected over the years SO nice and comfier and bassy too. I gotta get those tips they ReallY sound great because of the bigger hole. I gotta tell you my old UE5 grey cable sound great still. They survived water damage and still managed to dry out and sound great.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> How dare you picpicpic. In other news the ATR NOW = Treble. Finally. I tried the RZ tips on the ZS3 and other iem's I've collected over the years SO nice and comfier and bassy too. I gotta get those tips they ReallY sound great because of the bigger hole. I gotta tell you my old UE5 grey cable sound great still. They survived water damage and still managed to dry out and sound great.


 nice you actually got to be able to hear the atr's treble for quite long though, how long do you bi the atr and tell me the results was quite good. If you want little more comfy just remove the memory wire from the zs3 and it's even better without the memory on zs3. The pros are they're easy to insert without need to bend the wire across your ear and they're not hurt your ears anymore when you listening to them for long periods of time.


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> I've done it the results are pretty comfy and not irritating the ears anymore thanks


 
 Awesome, glad you got them removed without issue.
  
 I remove the memory wires on some of my units, and leave them on others. And then there are others that I wish had them!


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> nice you actually got to be able to hear the atr's treble for quite long though, how long do you bi the atr and tell me the results was quite good. If you want little more comfy just remove the memory wire from the zs3 and it's even better without the memory on zs3. The pros are they're easy to insert without need to bend the wire across your ear and they're not hurt your ears anymore when you listening to them for long periods of time.




I think afternBI with the ATR i listened and treble was a bit short last week. Took them out tonight to see if they sound better with the RZ tips and they did then i tried the normal tip i used and still treble was much better i guess sitting in the bag they opened up more. Dunno just sounds way better. Looks like they dont sell the RZ tips tried gearbest and ali. Nothing nada. I might just get the white version ofthe RZ. Ive used the Sony hybrids for years. Those RZ tips are better. YEAH. Memory thing does not bother me.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> I think afternBI with the ATR i listened and treble was a bit short last week. Took them out tonight to see if they sound better with the RZ tips and they did then i tried the normal tip i used and still treble was much better i guess sitting in the bag they opened up more. Dunno just sounds way better. Looks like they dont sell the RZ tips tried gearbest and ali. Nothing nada. I might just get the white version ofthe RZ. Ive used the Sony hybrids for years. Those RZ tips are better. YEAH. Memory thing does not bother me.


 ok how do you rank the atr in top 10 list.i just use the stock tips that came with the atr and it work well i don't know how the other tips sound different,to me all the tips that i use doesn't make any noticeable to the sound.


----------



## Mus1c

Actorlife how do you take off the filter on the zs3?.


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> @Actorlife how do you take off the filter on the zs3?.


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/16905#post_13387747
  
 I seem to remember he removed it with tweezers or a needle.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Have they stopped making the ed10s for good?


----------



## Slater

chief stringer said:


> Have they stopped making the ed10s for good?


 
 Looks that way. But here's a pair on ebay:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-End-Headset-Kopfhorer-KZ-ED10-Professional-In-Ear-Headset-Ohrhorer-/182489074391


----------



## Terran Earthson

I ordered ZST from gearbest  through Netherlands post registered service, it's been over 5 days now, and tracking number still listed as "The item is pre-advised". As i understood, it means that package was not sent to the post yet. I opened ticket on gearbest, they didn't answer anything meaningful. Is this normal? Does this means that my parcel is still not shipped?


----------



## Mus1c

terran earthson said:


> I ordered ZST from gearbest  through Netherlands post registered service, it's been over 5 days now, and tracking number still listed as "The item is pre-advised". As i understood, it means that package was not sent to the post yet. I opened ticket on gearbest, they didn't answer anything meaningful. Is this normal? Does this means that my parcel is still not shipped?


 what it mean is the seller needs time to prepare your item before they ship to the carrier service. Yes this is normal this actually takes about 3 week or more depand what the seller choose the transport to shipped your parcel by airplane or ship if you got by airplane chances are you get the parcel early if got them by ship u have to wait more time like 30 days to arrive.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> ok how do you rank the atr in top 10 list.i just use the stock tips that came with the atr and it work well i don't know how the other tips sound different,to me all the tips that i use doesn't make any noticeable to the sound.



The RZ tip you will notice better vocals highs and bass is clearer to my ears.
JB's top iem 2017 so far.
ZST/RZ(Bass pounder dang. No boom Shakalaka)natural sounding and clear detail. Tight Bass. To my ears no need for BI.
Z$3 YES awesome bass spacey. At least 50hr BI or more.
ATE-ATR tie Natural sound need time to open up at least 80hrs or more.
ED3 acme-ED9 tie Fun spacious sound the bass/treble eventually is there without har$hness(treble)just needs 80 + hrs.
I only have these KZ's alas no top 10. ED3 s not here yet.

New ATR review: http://www.headfonia.com/review-knowledge-zenith-kz-atr-budget-miracle/


----------



## zareliman

I've been enjoying the KZ ZST a lot lately but I can detect some ringing/harshness in the 3k-8k range. Since the ED12 is like the same without the BA I was wondering if it removed some of the ringing, has anyone tried both of them ? The ZS3 was not good for me, something about the shape makes me hurt or requires frequent adjustment to seal properly. However, the ZST fit is superb.

 And also, what is the consensus about the 4 versions of the ATE ? I already have the regular ATE incoming but I'm curious about how it compares to the HD9. From what I can understand the ATR is almost the same and the ATE-S stands for sport with the cable earhook.


----------



## RvTrav

zareliman said:


> I've been enjoying the KZ ZST a lot lately but I can detect some ringing/harshness in the 3k-8k range. Since the ED12 is like the same without the BA I was wondering if it removed some of the ringing, has anyone tried both of them ? The ZS3 was not good for me, something about the shape makes me hurt or requires frequent adjustment to seal properly. However, the ZST fit is superb.
> 
> And also, what is the consensus about the 4 versions of the ATE ? I already have the regular ATE incoming but I'm curious about how it compares to the HD9. From what I can understand the ATR is almost the same and the ATE-S stands for sport with the cable earhook.


 

 ​I have the ED12 and my opinion and most others here is that the ED12 is not one of KZs better sounding earphones.   Why don't you wait and see how you like the ATE.


----------



## actorlife

Zare maybe the source you have them on? Maybe try other tips. Did you have other players to see if there is a difference? If not try pink noise and music at your listening volume for about 80 hrs.


----------



## jaydm99

Hi, I'm choosing between the ZS3 and the ZST ($2 price difference on AE) for my first KZ headphones, and it's safe to say it will also be my first proper audiophile pair, considering my past headphones were Coloud's Pop and Boom. I'm only gonna be using it on my phone with Viper4Android and Dolby Atmos. Is it worth it to get the ZST for $2 more or I'm better off with the slightly cheaper ZS3? And is there any difference on the sound quality of ZST carbon and candy edition?


----------



## mochill

Check out the new Seahf iem which cost 9.79 on Amazon


----------



## SomeTechNoob

jay magaling said:


> Hi, I'm choosing between the ZS3 and the ZST ($2 price difference on AE) for my first KZ headphones, and it's safe to say it will also be my first proper audiophile pair, considering my past headphones were Coloud's Pop and Boom. I'm only gonna be using it on my phone with Viper4Android and Dolby Atmos. Is it worth it to get the ZST for $2 more or I'm better off with the slightly cheaper ZS3? And is there any difference on the sound quality of ZST carbon and candy edition?




Go with the ZST if you want more treble. ZS3 if you want a bassinet sound profile.

Carbon and colorful editions should sound the same.


----------



## Vidal

jay magaling said:


> Hi, I'm choosing between the ZS3 and the ZST ($2 price difference on AE) for my first KZ headphones, and it's safe to say it will also be my first proper audiophile pair, considering my past headphones were Coloud's Pop and Boom. I'm only gonna be using it on my phone with Viper4Android and Dolby Atmos. Is it worth it to get the ZST for $2 more or I'm better off with the slightly cheaper ZS3? And is there any difference on the sound quality of ZST carbon and candy edition?


 
  
 This might help
  

  
 The ZST is 'audiophile' better clarity and quite a sharp treble that some say is too sharp. The ZS3 is a lo-fi hero is great with poor recordings, what it lacks in detail it makes up with in terms of musicality. Buy one now the other next month, it's the head-fi way


----------



## vegetaleb

vidal said:


> This might help
> 
> 
> 
> The ZST is 'audiophile' better clarity and quite a sharp treble that some say is too sharp. The ZS3 is a lo-fi hero is great with poor recordings, what it lacks in detail it makes up with in terms of musicality. Buy one now the other next month, it's the head-fi way


 
  
 My ears are too sensitive to harsh treble, I have found the ZS3 to have sometimes too high treble so imagine if I take the ZST!!
 Perhaps I have the hearings of dogs lol


----------



## CoiL

http://www.headfonia.com/review-knowledge-zenith-kz-atr-budget-miracle/2/
 I`ve been telling ya - ATR sounds very good and way above its price point. I should send HF my modded ATE lol


----------



## zareliman

jay magaling said:


> Hi, I'm choosing between the ZS3 and the ZST ($2 price difference on AE) for my first KZ headphones, and it's safe to say it will also be my first proper audiophile pair, considering my past headphones were Coloud's Pop and Boom. I'm only gonna be using it on my phone with Viper4Android and Dolby Atmos. Is it worth it to get the ZST for $2 more or I'm better off with the slightly cheaper ZS3? And is there any difference on the sound quality of ZST carbon and candy edition?


 

 I don't recommend the ZS3, it sounds "confused" to my ears. The bass bleeds into the low mids and there's some chops in the FR. The ZST is clearly a bright IEM and I know no alternative on the price range, whereas the ZS3 is bassy and there's better alternatives on the cheap like hybrid pistons or sony mh1.


----------



## vegetaleb

zareliman said:


> I don't recommend the ZS3, it sounds "confused" to my ears. The bass bleeds into the low mids and there's some chops in the FR. The ZST is clearly a bright IEM and I know no alternative on the price range, whereas the ZS3 is bassy and there's better alternatives on the cheap like hybrid pistons or sony mh1.


 
  
 The ZS3 without stock filters are much brighter and bass is 30% less heavy so no more bleeding into mids.
 The red stock filters are too thick like a sort of rubber, that's why it increase the boom room effect in a way it can be annoying for some of us, taking the stock filter out with a needle is the mod to do to have non-basshead configuration, that doesn't mean you will not have enough bass, the bass quantity will still be high but not bleeding or hurting your ears


----------



## bokiboki




----------



## gemmoglock

vegetaleb said:


> The ZS3 without stock filters are much brighter and bass is 30% less heavy so no more bleeding into mids.
> The red stock filters are too thick like a sort of rubber, that's why it increase the boom room effect in a way it can be annoying for some of us, taking the stock filter out with a needle is the mod to do to have non-basshead configuration, that doesn't mean you will not have enough bass, the bass quantity will still be high but not bleeding or hurting your ears


 
 Sounds interesting. Didn't try this yet 
  
 Funnily through a DAP (Fiio X1 II/Shanling M1) I don't find the bloat an issue. I like ATR but I find that you need a DAP with more power than smartphones to drive it best for resolution, frequency extension and spatial imaging.


----------



## jaydm99

Damn it. the ZST price went up $5,I guess I'll get the ZS3 now. Is the ATR really that bad? They're half the price of the ZS3 though. I've read that the ZS3 is similar to the ATR but with more bass.


----------



## actorlife

jay magaling said:


> Damn it. the ZST price went up $5,I guess I'll get the ZS3 now. Is the ATR really that bad? They're half the price of the ZS3 though. I've read that the ZS3 is similar to the ATR but with more bass.



The ATR need BI time about 80hr before they shine. What gear is it going to be hoooked up to? ATE is great too. Check ebay as well.


----------



## jaydm99

actorlife said:


> The ATR need BI time about 80hr before they shine. What gear is it going to be hoooked up to? ATE is great too. Check ebay as well.




Just on a phone with Viper4Android and Dolby Atmos.


----------



## actorlife

jay magaling said:


> Just on a phone with Viper4Android and Dolby Atmos.



You should be fine with ATE or ATR for good bass if you want more bass get the ZS3 or Rock Zircon. Depends on the music you listen to.


----------



## Daniel Gur

Whats the best bass or all around Knowledge Zenith right now?


----------



## kokakolia

daniel gur said:


> Whats the best bass or all around Knowledge Zenith right now?




I only tried the ED7 & ED9. 

- The ED7 is perfect in every way. You get punchy bass, forward mids and smooth highs. They just sound natural. The soundstage is surprisingly good as well. They're super light bamboo erbuds so the comfort is excellent. 
- The ED9 sounds hollow, thin, artificial with harsh highs and boosted bass. People on this forum still praise them because they like boosted treble. They're made out of heavy metal so they fall out of the ear more easily.


----------



## actorlife

daniel gur said:


> Whats the best bass or all around Knowledge Zenith right now?



ZS3 or Rock Zircon Big bass on both.


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> - The ED9 sounds hollow, thin, artificial with harsh highs and boosted bass.* People on this forum still praise them because they like boosted treble. *They're made out of heavy metal so they fall out of the ear more easily.


 
  
 Assumptions are not becoming of you. People praise them because they perform well; good detail retrieval, excellent bass response, clean mid-range, etc. etc. etc. They do things most budget earphones don't. You've got lots of issues with them, that's clear, but saying the only reason they are liked is because of boosted treble? That's extremely ignorant, shortsighted, and makes huge assumptions about others in the thread. Not cool.


----------



## B9Scrambler

daniel gur said:


> Whats the *best bass *or all around Knowledge Zenith right now?


 
  
 To add onto the other suggestions, ZS1, DT5 (if you can find them), ED3c are all nice too.


----------



## Daniel Gur

If I go with the ED7, which to take, the smaller or bigger ones?


kokakolia said:


> I only tried the ED7 & ED9.
> 
> - The ED7 is perfect in every way. You get punchy bass, forward mids and smooth highs. They just sound natural. The soundstage is surprisingly good as well. They're super light bamboo erbuds so the comfort is excellent.
> - The ED9 sounds hollow, thin, artificial with harsh highs and boosted bass. People on this forum still praise them because they like boosted treble. They're made out of heavy metal so they fall out of the ear more easily.


----------



## Daniel Gur

b9scrambler said:


> To add onto the other suggestions, ZS1, DT5 (if you can find them), ED3c are all nice too.


 
 Which do you think are the best? from your suggestion or from what people suggested?


----------



## To.M

jay magaling said:


> Damn it. the ZST price went up $5,I guess I'll get the ZS3 now. Is the ATR really that bad? They're half the price of the ZS3 though. I've read that the ZS3 is similar to the ATR but with more bass.




11usd for ZST
http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

daniel gur said:


> Which do you think are the best? from your suggestion or from what people suggested?


 
  
 In no particular order;
  
 ZS3 (bassy, warm)
 ZST (w-shaped, high energy, somewhat fatiguing)
 ED9 (w/brass one of the closest to neutral KZ's you can get - w/gold similar to ED10 but not as good all-around)
 ED10 (v-shaped, warm)
 ATR (balanced, warm)
  
 These are the ones I recommend most. Not my favorites though. ZS3 is the most technically capable of their bassy sets, just not the bassiest. They take EQ well if you want to add in more low end. As long as you can get the fit down, they'd be a great choice. The RX is actually another great option I forgot about. It performs nearly as well as the ZS3, but with a more traditional housing. Seems like they're gone from AliExpress though


----------



## Daniel Gur

I see alot of youtubers are "praising" the ATE's but no one here recommended them, why is that so?


b9scrambler said:


> In no particular order;
> 
> ZS3 (bassy, warm)
> ZST (w-shaped, high energy, somewhat fatiguing)
> ...


----------



## Daniel Gur

I think I will get the ED9, ZS3 and ED7. may replace or just buy also the ATE's after someone explains me about them. Thank you for taking your time to write 
 Edit: there are also ATE-S, whats the diffrence between the regular ATE's?
  


b9scrambler said:


> In no particular order;
> 
> ZS3 (bassy, warm)
> ZST (w-shaped, high energy, somewhat fatiguing)
> ...


----------



## Vidal

daniel gur said:


> I see alot of youtubers are "praising" the ATE's but no one here recommended them, why is that so?


 
  
 I've never rated the ATE but the ATR is one of the best value for money earphones available.


----------



## actorlife

daniel gur said:


> I see alot of youtubers are "praising" the ATE's but no one here recommended them, why is that so?



Look a page back I recommended them.


----------



## bokiboki

jay magaling said:


> Damn it. the ZST price went up $5,I guess I'll get the ZS3 now. Is the ATR really that bad? They're half the price of the ZS3 though. I've read that the ZS3 is similar to the ATR but with more bass.



Hahaha! One shop is ZST Pro with 11 € raised to 19€.


----------



## B9Scrambler

daniel gur said:


> I see alot of youtubers are "praising" the ATE's but no one here recommended them, why is that so?


 
  
 To me the ATR is a direct upgrade to the ATE. Better build quality with a VERY similar but more well-rounded signature. Can't go wrong with either.


----------



## actorlife

kokakolia said:


> I only tried the ED7 & ED9.
> 
> - The ED7 is perfect in every way. You get punchy bass, forward mids and smooth highs. They just sound natural. The soundstage is surprisingly good as well. They're super light bamboo erbuds so the comfort is excellent.
> - The ED9 sounds hollow, thin, artificial with harsh highs and boosted bass. People on this forum still praise them because they like boosted treble. They're made out of heavy metal so they fall out of the ear more easily.



What the difference between the ed7 mini and standard?


----------



## SpiderNhan

actorlife said:


> What the difference between the ed7 mini and standard?



Taken from Doc Holliday's Amazon review:

"The bamboo ED7(mini) has the smallest housing. This means less volume of unoccupied space inside the driver housing resulting in the entire presentation being more intimate and forward. There is little room for the sound to travel inside the housing so all of the sound moves forward through the nozzle. The soundstage width is the same on both (mini and standard), but there is less space between the instruments on the ED7(mini) and the soundstage depth is more shallow as well.

The ED7(standard) has a larger bamboo housing. More space in the housing means more room for the sound to travel inside the housing before the sound moves forward through the nozzle giving the ED7(standard) more space between the instruments and more depth in the soundstage. The soundstage width is the same on both (mini and standard).

As a side note, the ATR, having the same sound signature, has a slightly wider soundstage than either of the ED7's.

So what Knowledge Zenith has offered us is one sound signature with three different soundstage presentations. The ATR with the most airy presentation, the ED7(standard) having slightly less space than the ATR and the ED7(mini) having less space than either the ED7(standard) or the ATR.

While these differences are minor they are there. The small differences make a difference to me because sometimes the ATR can come across as dry, whereas the ED7 does not. The ED7 has simply more energy and it is why I prefer the ED7(standard) over the excellent ATR.

Actually, the ED7(standard) is the midpoint between the ATR and the ZS3. If you love the ZS3 but find it a bit too bassy at times, then the ED7(standard) is your perfect pick.

Soundstage : rated from airy to intimate.
ATR > ED7(standard) > ED7(mini)

Bass quantity: rated from most to least.
ED7(standard) > ED7(mini) > ATR

Mid-centric focus: rated from most to least.
ED7(mini) > ED7(standard) > ATR

Personally, I think that KZ has made a wise decision in offering this ED7 because it is essentially an ATR designed for those who abhor over-the-ear IEM's. The ED7 sound signature is only the slightest variation of KZ's new ATR, and as I said, those differences are a result of the driver housing.

Knowledge Zenith just keeps hitting it out of the park. Three presentations of the same sound signature with the ED7(mini), the ED7(standard) and the ATR with subtle differences."


----------



## actorlife

Thanks Spider I guess no need for them since I have ATR. The wooden design looks good though.


----------



## kokakolia

The bamboo finish is kinda funny in a DIY project aesthetic. The level of craftsmanship is pretty rough but it feels sturdy. The ED7s really look like a combination of recycled parts. 

I think it looks cool in contrast to all the black plastic stuff you see everywhere. 

BTW, I didn't even bother with the mini. I just picked the standard ED7s for around $9 on amazon. It took almost 2 months to ship. 

After getting used to them, I can't really find any faults. Sure, my $50 Marshall Modes sound noticeably better but you have to focus to hear the minute differences.


----------



## Slater

daniel gur said:


> Whats the best bass or all around Knowledge Zenith right now?


 
 Best as in basshead best?
  
 If so, the ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not mesh screen) is the filling-rattling, bone crushing, basshead King.
  

  
 You'll have to look around for it & be sure to ask sellers to verify the brass ring 1st. I recently found a seller with old stock on aliexpress & ordered 3.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> Best as in basshead best?
> 
> If so, the ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not mesh screen) is the filling-rattling, bone crushing, basshead King.
> 
> ...



Slater OH snap I want one. 3 dang NOW you're going too far. How much did he charge?


----------



## Slater

jay magaling said:


> Damn it. the ZST price went up $5,I guess I'll get the ZS3 now. Is the ATR really that bad? They're half the price of the ZS3 though. I've read that the ZS3 is similar to the ATR but with more bass.


 
  
 Prices change on gearbest every few weeks. Just wait for the next flash sale if you want ZST.


----------



## Slater

bokiboki said:


>


 
  
 This has been debunked before. The ZST "Pro" is just what a few sellers on aliexpress call the ZST (due to confusion, loss in translation, etc).
  
 ZST = ZST Pro


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> Best as in basshead best?
> 
> If so, the ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not mesh screen) is the filling-rattling, bone crushing, basshead King.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Smart man! I thought the original was long gone which is why I left it out. I call it 'Lord Bass" for a reason


----------



## DeLuX

slaterlovesspam said:


> Best as in basshead best?
> 
> If so, the ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not mesh screen) is the filling-rattling, bone crushing, basshead King.
> 
> ...




You mind sharing a link to the 1gens on Ali?


----------



## Slater

daniel gur said:


> I see alot of youtubers are "praising" the ATE's but no one here recommended them, why is that so?


 
  
 ATE is one of if not THE best selling model KZ has ever offered. That's for a reason, and hordes of people on HF recommend them.
  
 You originally asked about the "best bass" in-ear. The ATE is more neutral.
  
 Could you describe in better detail what your preferences are? What music genres do you listen to? Are you a basshead? What are you driving them with? Do you have big or small ears? Do you like memory wires that go around the back of your ears? Do you need isolation (for at work or commuting on public transportation)? Want something to work out or play sports in?
  
 As you can see, you've got 15 recommendations from 15 different people. Providing more information will make it easier for people to make more accurate recommendations.
  
 Finally, KZs are like $5-$7 on average, so don't be afraid to buy 2 or 3 and figure out which one you like. That way, you're not feeling pressure to make sure you get "the best" one. You can always keep the other pairs at work, as a backup, give to your bae, whatever.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Slater OH snap I want one. 3 dang NOW you're going too far. How much did he charge?


 
  
 I got them for $9 each.


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> I got them for $9 each.



Too bad they dont do paypal. Got these cheap awei cause they look like the Zircon wide tip. Wish i knew what the guy was saying seems positive for a less than $3 earphone with VERY NICE spaghetti cord: https://heavyrunslight.wordpress.com/2015/12/19/awei-es-q7i/


----------



## Slater

delux said:


> You mind sharing a link to the 1gens on Ali?


 
  
 I bought the last 1st gen from 1 seller and the only 2 1st gens another seller had, simply based on who was cheapest. But I messaged about 50 sellers (cut n paste), sent them the photos of what to look for, and got responses from 6-7 who had the 1st gens. After I placed 2 orders I deleted the messages though, because they were clogging up my message box & I would have enough ZS1 to last the rest of my life LOL. Sorry I didn't keep the sellers :0(
  
 I don't remember the other sellers who had them, but they are out there for those that are willing to spend an hour contacting sellers. I didn't even hit up ebay sellers (although I would have if aliexpress did't pan out), but I'm confident that I would have found a few ebay sellers who had the 1st gens too.
  
 I do remember the next cheapest seller on aliexpress that had them wanted $18 though, and that's approaching the border of what I'd be willing to pay. If I had heard back from everyone during the 7th birthday sale, I could have got them for under $6 doh!
  
 Also, it's possible something got lost in translation or the sellers were lying to me, so I'll believe the 3 I bought are indeed 1st gens once they actually show up.
  
 I may also see how easy it is to extract the brass ring, and retrofit them into something similar (that has the same case, like the ZN1 Mini or the ZS1 2nd gen). It won't help with the crossover, but I can at least see what difference the brass ring makes. And as soon as 1 of my ZS1 gen 1s dies, I'm going to take the crossovers out, measure the resistors, & build my own crossovers.


----------



## Daniel Gur

slaterlovesspam said:


> ATE is one of if not THE best selling model KZ has ever offered. That's for a reason, and hordes of people on HF recommend them.
> 
> You originally asked about the "best bass" in-ear. The ATE is more neutral.
> 
> ...


 
 I listen to alot of trap and EDM, I also listen to alot of different music: Twenty One Pilots, Greenday, Maroon 5, Taylor Swift, Arctic Monkeys, Avril Lavigne, Coldplay, I also listen to trending music and some lated 90s and early 2000s. Yes, I like bass, I am in love with bass, I also just love Piano or Digital Piano, Iove the sound the piano makes. I dont have any amp or dac unfortunatly, I have an LG V10 which is a good phone for listening for music - supports 24bit w/DAC. I am not sure if I have a big or small ears, I never bought before in ear headphones, always just bought over ear headphones - I own ath-m50x's. Isolation isnt necessary but it would be nice. I do want at least 1 pair of sport KZ's, I am running from time to time. Sorry for the grammar mistakes, I am not coming from an English country 
  
 Edit: I forgot I also enjoy alot of electro swing music, like caravan palace.


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> Smart man! I thought the original was long gone which is why I left it out. I call it 'Lord Bass" for a reason


 
  
 Yeah, I kept getting paranoid that my only pair would die.
  
 I think the gen 1s are still floating around because perhaps they weren't the best seller. They came out right when the ZN1 came out (the ZN1 with built-in amp and the ZN1 Mini). Since they look identical, I remember there was a lot of hype around the ZN1 (especially the one with amp), and then the ZS2 came out shortly after that. So I think the ZS1 just kind of fell from peoples' minds.
  
 I had a feeling there would still be gen 1s out there. Glad I did the digging and found some


----------



## Slater

daniel gur said:


> I listen to alot of trap and EDM, I also listen to alot of different music: Twenty One Pilots, Greenday, Maroon 5, Taylor Swift, Arctic Monkeys, Avril Lavigne, Coldplay, I also listen to trending music and some lated 90s and early 2000s. Yes, I like bass, I am in love with bass, I also just love Piano or Digital Piano, Iove the sound the piano makes. I dont have any amp or dac unfortunatly, I have an LG V10 which is a good phone for listening for music - supports 24bit w/DAC. I am not sure if I have a big or small ears, I never bought before in ear headphones, always just bought over ear headphones - I own ath-m50x's. Isolation isnt necessary but it would be nice. I do want at least 1 pair of sport KZ's, I am running from time to time. Sorry for the grammar mistakes, I am not coming from an English country
> 
> Edit: I forgot I also enjoy alot of electro swing music, like caravan palace.


 
 Do you like the ATH-M50X? Would you say that is the sound you are looking for, only shrunk down to an in-ear size? Or is there something you wish the ATH-M50X did different (more treble, less bass, whatever).


----------



## Daniel Gur

I think maybe alittle more bass? I cant think of anything really beyond that cause never had something better then the m50x's. something like the m50x's or something with alittle more bass would be great, but for cheap I dont think there is anything so I will take the best from the cheap I guess haha. or am I wrong?


slaterlovesspam said:


> Do you like the ATH-M50X? Would you say that is the sound you are looking for, only shrunk down to an in-ear size? Or is there something you wish the ATH-M50X did different (more treble, less bass, whatever).


 
 Edit: also I want earphones for going out of my home, in my home I will be using the M50X's. if that matters


----------



## Slater

daniel gur said:


> I think maybe alittle more bass? I cant think of anything really beyond that cause never had something better then the m50x's. something like the m50x's or something with alittle more bass would be great, but for cheap I dont think there is anything so I will take the best from the cheap I guess haha. or am I wrong?
> Edit: also I want earphones for going out of my home, in my home I will be using the M50X's. if that matters


 
 No, I get it. That's actually very helpful.
  
 If you're looking for something that sounds like the M50X, but in an in-ear size, especially with more bass than the M50X, I would consider the Rock Zircon, KZ ATE-S, or KZ ZS3 (not in any particular order).
  
 For full-size headphones, look into the Meizu HD50. They are on-ear (but sooo comfortable), loads of bass, 40mm bio-fiber hybrid drivers, fold up REALLY small, very comfortable, built like an army tank due to all-metal, includes a hard case with multiple adapters, and the cable is removable. They cost between $50-$60 tops. They sound very much like your M50X.


----------



## Daniel Gur

slaterlovesspam said:


> No, I get it. That's actually very helpful.
> 
> If you're looking for something that sounds like the M50X, but in an in-ear size, especially with more bass than the M50X, I would consider the Rock Zircon, KZ ATE-S, or KZ ZS3 (not in any particular order).
> 
> For full-size headphones, look into the Meizu HD50. They are on-ear (but sooo comfortable), loads of bass, 40mm bio-fiber hybrid drivers, fold up REALLY small, very comfortable, built like an army tank due to all-metal, includes a hard case with multiple adapters, and the cable is removable. They cost between $50-$60 tops. They sound very much like your M50X.


 
 I put in my ebay basket ED7, ED9, ZS3 and ATR. I think I will buy all just to try. also the Meizu HD50 that you mentioned sound too good to be true haha, when I looked for headphones everyone said M50X are best for the price, like everyone sites, youtube and people I know that own them. If what you say is true, if I will need new pair of on ear/over ear headphones I will be sure to try these out. Thank you alot 
  
 Edit: all those 4 are less than 30 dollars total, it is nothing if theyre really good as people say. 
 Edit2: also about Rock Zircon, I looked a video earlier today and the youtuber I watched told that their cable is very annoying cause every touch with cloth it messes up the audio, is that true?


----------



## Daniel Gur

slaterlovesspam said:


> No, I get it. That's actually very helpful.
> 
> If you're looking for something that sounds like the M50X, but in an in-ear size, especially with more bass than the M50X, I would consider the Rock Zircon, KZ ATE-S, or KZ ZS3 (not in any particular order).
> 
> For full-size headphones, look into the Meizu HD50. They are on-ear (but sooo comfortable), loads of bass, 40mm bio-fiber hybrid drivers, fold up REALLY small, very comfortable, built like an army tank due to all-metal, includes a hard case with multiple adapters, and the cable is removable. They cost between $50-$60 tops. They sound very much like your M50X.


 
 I am not sure what happend, my reply just got deleted?


----------



## Daniel Gur

anyways:
 I put in my ebay basket the ED7, ED9, ZS3 and ATR. I think to try all will be cool, and theyre cheap- less than 30 dollars in total so why not. Thank you for the help.
 also, I heard from a youtube video that the Rock Zircon cable is very bad with cloth, and messes up the sound, is it true?
 Also the Meizu HD50 sound very interesting as when I bought mine M50X's everyone on earth told me that theyre the best for the price- youtube, internet and friends that I know. if what you say is true it will be nice to try those out when I need a pair of on ear headphones. Thank you for helping me out again 


slaterlovesspam said:


> No, I get it. That's actually very helpful.
> 
> If you're looking for something that sounds like the M50X, but in an in-ear size, especially with more bass than the M50X, I would consider the Rock Zircon, KZ ATE-S, or KZ ZS3 (not in any particular order).
> 
> For full-size headphones, look into the Meizu HD50. They are on-ear (but sooo comfortable), loads of bass, 40mm bio-fiber hybrid drivers, fold up REALLY small, very comfortable, built like an army tank due to all-metal, includes a hard case with multiple adapters, and the cable is removable. They cost between $50-$60 tops. They sound very much like your M50X.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Generally a lot of IEMs with cable-down will have microphonics or cable noise.  The vibrations from hitting/rubbing against a shirt or jacket transfer directly to the IEM which can sometimes be annoying.
  
 Over-ear IEMs are a little bit better in this aspect since going over the ear seems to dampen these vibrations.
  
 I can vouch for the ZS3.  ED9 isn't my cup of tea, but in stock configuration they have a lot of punchy bass with recessed vocals/mids.  ATR, being the cheapest of the bunch, is good for the price but imo is a bit lacking in overall clarity.
  
 ---------
  
 On another note, I ordered a KZ ZST Colorful and the matching silver cable earlier last week.  $12 GearBest Flash sale for the IEM, $5 for the cable from eBay(minus $2 for me since I got my ebay bucks!).  Can't wait for them to come in.


----------



## Slater

daniel gur said:


> anyways:
> I put in my ebay basket the ED7, ED9, ZS3 and ATR. I think to try all will be cool, and theyre cheap- less than 30 dollars in total so why not. Thank you for the help.
> also, I heard from a youtube video that the Rock Zircon cable is very bad with cloth, and messes up the sound, is it true?
> Also the Meizu HD50 sound very interesting as when I bought mine M50X's everyone on earth told me that theyre the best for the price- youtube, internet and friends that I know. if what you say is true it will be nice to try those out when I need a pair of on ear headphones. Thank you for helping me out again


 
  
 What you're describing with the Zircon is called microphonics, and yes you can hear a noise when you brush against the cable. It is most apparent on low volumes. But many if not most in-ear headphones have microphonics (especially those NOT worn behind the ear as SomeTechNoob pointed out). The nylon cover on the Zircon actually helps REDUCE microphonics. So no, I wouldn't agree that the Zircon's microphonics is any worse than any other in-ear (there are MUCH worse, believe me).
  
 Your list looks really good, but if I were you I would consider removing at least 1 of those KZ models and replacing with Rock Zircon. If it was me, I would replace the ED9 with the Zircon. It's not that the ED9 is bad (I love mine), but because the ATR and ED9 are similar sounding and the ATR edges out the ED9 in many aspects. You said you like bass, the more the better. The ZS3 and Rock Zircon are going to give you that based on your M50X preference.
  
 And yes, the M50X are very popular, well-built, comfortable, and have a consumer-friendly, bass-heavy sound signature that sounds good with today's EDM music. There are hundreds of other choices though (that are "better" for one reason or another); no one headphone is the "best".


----------



## Daniel Gur

slaterlovesspam said:


> What you're describing with the Zircon is called microphonics, and yes you can hear a noise when you brush against the cable. It is most apparent on low volumes. But many if not most in-ear headphones have microphonics. The nylon cover on the Zircon actually REDUCES microphonics, not makes it worse. So no, I wouldn't agree that the Zircon's microphonics is any worse than any other in-ear (there are MUCH worse, believe me).
> 
> Your list looks really good, but if I were you I would consider removing at least 1 of those KS models and replacing with a Rock Zircon. If it was me, I would replace the ED9 with the Zircon. It's not that the ED9 is bad (I love mine), but because the ATR and ED9 are similar sounding and the ATR edges out the ED9 in many aspects. You said you like bass, the more the better. The ZS3 and Rock Zircon are going to give you that based on your M50X preference.
> 
> And yes, the M50X are very popular, well-built, comfortable, and have a consumer-friendly, bass-heavy sound signature that sounds good with today's EDM music. There are hundreds of other choices though (that are "better" for one reason or another); no one headphone is the "best".


 
 I got you, I will replace the ED9 or just also add the Zircon. I am a begginer and I dont know alot of the terms for sound I mean like - warm sound or things like that, and also dont know alot about good headphones or devices. hope the forum will help me to be an audiophile hehe. 
 -btw I did search up what is warm sound and I think I got it hehe


----------



## Slater

daniel gur said:


> I got you, I will replace the ED9 or just also add the Zircon. I am a begginer and I dont know alot of the terms for sound I mean like - warm sound or things like that, and also dont know alot about good headphones or devices. hope the forum will help me to be an audiophile hehe.
> -btw I did search up what is warm sound and I think I got it hehe


 
  
 Nothing wrong with that at all.
  
 You are already ahead of 95% of the world at branching out and buying the quality items you have (in addition to your M50X). I suffered for years with the crappy "free" earbuds included with iPods and phones, before stepping up my game. Most people, especially younger people, think Beats are the "best" headphones out there. They are missing out on so much more; they just don't realize it.
  
 Don't be surprised if as time goes on your tastes in audio changes. I don't mean the music; I mean the gear. Some of it is due to age and the way your ears will change, some of it will be due to gradually developing a taste for a certain sound.
  
 As far as the terminology and just learning more about audio in general, once you get the different models, go back and re-read the reviews and posts on this site that describe each model. It will help you learn what the people meant by the terms like "bright treble", "recessed mids", etc. You will be able to hear what they heard and you'll say "_oh, I see what they meant now_" or "O_h, I see now what they meant when they said that. Yes, I think I like this model better than that other model too._"
  
 Also, if you haven't already seen this, read through these 2 items (and keep them for future reference). It will help greatly.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary
http://www.head-fi.org/a/glossary-of-terms


----------



## Vidal

daniel gur said:


> I got you, I will replace the ED9 or just also add the Zircon. I am a begginer and I dont know alot of the terms for sound I mean like - warm sound or things like that, and also dont know alot about good headphones or devices. hope the forum will help me to be an audiophile hehe.
> -btw I did search up what is warm sound and I think I got it hehe


 
  
 In the interest of balance. 
  
 If ask a number of experienced people on here about the Rock Zircons you'll get less than favourable opinions. There are much more rounded bassy earphones than these if you look around. The sound on the Zircons is devoid of mid range meaning some vocals sound hollow or false. I also believe there are reports of premature cable failings at the microphone. I've had direct customer feedback on that, hence why I stopped selling them despite their popularity.
  
 I agree with the Meizu HD50s comments, they are great headphones for the price, bomb proof build quality and very comfortable. A bit too much bass for my liking but I'm an AKG Q701 fan so very much at the opposite end of the spectrum.


----------



## actorlife

Interesting disassembly of AST: http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ate-disassembly/


----------



## kokakolia

I will confess that the ED9s sound great with electronic music. The boosted bass and treble really make synth sounds "pop" and the boomy bass is super fun. 

It's just that the ED9s sound like trash with Rock and folk genres because the recessed vocals and shrill treble sound weird. Listening to Mac Demarco's shimmering guitars on the ED9s is physical torture.


----------



## Vidal

kokakolia said:


> I will confess that the ED9s sound great with electronic music. The boosted bass and treble really make synth sounds "pop" and the boomy bass is super fun.
> 
> It's just that the ED9s sound like trash with Rock and folk genres because the recessed vocals and shrill treble sound weird. Listening to Mac Demarco's shimmering guitars on the ED9s is physical torture.


 
  
 I assume that is with the brighter/shorter (Gold) filter in?
  
 Did you try swapping the filters over? The other filter flattens the bass meaning the mids are less recessed and better for rock/folk.


----------



## zozito

One question...the silver cable that can be buyed apart...can be used both with the zs3 and the zst kz's?

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 4 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## SpiderNhan

zozito said:


> One question...the silver cable that can be buyed apart...can be used both with the zs3 and the zst kz's?
> 
> Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 4 mediante Tapatalk



The ZS3 and ZST each have their own upgrade cable.


----------



## zozito

spidernhan said:


> zozito said:
> 
> 
> > One question...the silver cable that can be buyed apart...can be used both with the zs3 and the zst kz's?
> ...




Thanks, mate.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 4 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Mellowship

spidernhan said:


> The ZS3 and ZST each have their own upgrade cable.


 
  
 But is there one of the cables that can fit both of them? I believe the ZST's wont fit the ZS3, but what about the other way around?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

zozito said:


> Thanks, mate.
> 
> Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 4 mediante Tapatalk




Straight plug = KZ ZS3

Angled = KZ ZST


----------



## Slater

mellowship said:


> But is there one of the cables that can fit both of them? I believe the ZST's wont fit the ZS3, but what about the other way around?


 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/839011/magaosi-k3-pro-impressions-and-discussions-thread/120#post_13350867


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ZSTs arrived in 2 weeks from GearBest.  Must be a record for me.  Last time they took 2 months haha.  Silver cable was ordered from ebay not too long ago so that'll take another couple weeks.  Doesn't mean I can't use the included cable though!
  

  

  

  
 They really are quite beautiful.  Can't wait to see how they look with the silver cable.
  
 Cable feels and looks the same as the flexible and rubbery cable that the KZ ATR came with.  I like the stock ZS3 cable since it didn't grip onto everything it touched as easily.  There's "memory" wire on this cable as well - same as the ZS3 as far as I can tell.  Thin, flexible metal that you bend around your ear.
  
 First impressions: Pretty balanced.  I haven't really had any issues with treble - my old SHP9500s and Monk+ have much harsher treble that I can borderline cope with.  Definitely not as bassy as the ZS3.  Something still sounds a tad bit off in the midrange.  More listening to come.
  
 But as it currently stands with my 30 minutes of listening: ZS3 -> ZST -> ATR -> ED9.  I think.


----------



## khighly

b9scrambler said:


> To me the ATR is a direct upgrade to the ATE. Better build quality with a VERY similar but more well-rounded signature. Can't go wrong with either.


 
 ATR is flat on both sides and has terrible extension. The ATE's don't have the soundstage, but the signature is definitely better and they have much more extension in lows and highs. I would never recommend the ATR's over the ATE's to anyone here.


----------



## B9Scrambler

khighly said:


> ATR is flat on both sides and has terrible extension. The ATE's don't have the soundstage, but the signature is definitely better and they have much more extension in lows and highs.* I would never recommend the ATR's over the ATE's to anyone here.*


 
  
 I know  And I would only recommend the ATE if you couldn't get access to an ATR.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

After hearing the ZS3 and ZST for myself I can't really recommend the ATR unless you really can't afford spending an extra $5 (in that case, you probably have more important priorities to take care of instead of earbud shopping lol).  My ears just find the clarity leagues ahead of the ATR.


----------



## zozito

sometechnoob said:


> zozito said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, mate.
> ...




Thanks, friend.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 4 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## 1clearhead

Wow! I can't understand how the ATR's are that bad!?....They are one of my favorites when used on a DAC or professionally amped, as well as the ATE's! Too many "QC issues" purchasing the ZST or the ZS3. Bought both the ZST and the ZS3 "twice" only to encounter issues with both the make and structure and the lack in balance of the left and right drivers as well.
  
 There is more potential than the ears can hear on the ATR and ATE....IMO!


----------



## Andrzej Cichy

@zozito
 I have KZ ZS3 and KZ ZST.
 I bought a silvered cable for KZ ZS3.
 Suitable for KZ ZS3 and KZ ZST


----------



## Vidal

sometechnoob said:


> After hearing the ZS3 and ZST for myself I can't really recommend the ATR unless you really can't afford spending an extra $5 (in that case, you probably have more important priorities to take care of instead of earbud shopping lol).  My ears just find the clarity leagues ahead of the ATR.


 
  
  
 ATR is brilliant value for money, but that's not why some people will pick it.
  
 It offers a more balanced listening experience *if *you don't want the extra bass of the ZS3 or the brightness of the ZST. It has it's place in the KZ range. There's plenty of people who find the ZST too bright and the ZS3 too bassy, this is the ATR's niche.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

vidal said:


> It offers a more balanced listening experience *if *you don't want the extra bass of the ZS3 or the brightness of the ZST. It has it's place in the KZ range. There's plenty of people who find the ZST too bright and the ZS3 too bassy, this is the ATR's niche.


 
 Doing some A/B with the ATR and ZST right now and I can agree with this statement.  Not quite as bassy as the ZS3, but isn't as sharp as the ZST.  I still stand by my statement that you lose midrange clarity with the ATR though.
  
 I put some starlines that came with my ZST on my ATR and they seem to fit a tiny bit better.  Sound seems similar enough though.


----------



## gemmoglock

khighly said:


> ATR is flat on both sides and has terrible extension. The ATE's don't have the soundstage, but the signature is definitely better and they have much more extension in lows and highs. I would never recommend the ATR's over the ATE's to anyone here.


 
  


1clearhead said:


> Wow! I can't understand how the ATR's are that bad!?....They are one of my favorites when used on a DAC or professionally amped, as well as the ATE's! Too many "QC issues" purchasing the ZST or the ZS3. Bought both the ZST and the ZS3 "twice" only to encounter issues with both the make and structure and the lack in balance of the left and right drivers as well.
> 
> There is more potential than the ears can hear on the ATR and ATE....IMO!


 
  
 I don't have the ATE but want to chime in that ATR is okay BUT you need a decent source! I found it meh from a phone so the total cost of sound output upgrade plus ATRs may not be that cheap anymore


----------



## zozito

andrzej cichy said:


> @zozito
> I have KZ ZS3 and KZ ZST.
> I bought a silvered cable for KZ ZS3.
> Suitable for KZ ZS3 and KZ ZST




Great! So I'll buy one of them only firstly!

Thak you, mate.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 4 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## CoiL

vidal said:


> daniel gur said:
> 
> 
> > I see alot of youtubers are "praising" the ATE's but no one here recommended them, why is that so?
> ...


 
 Totally agree. ATE 5th gen has *slight* difference in soundstage (depth presentation, soundstage distance in width), *slightly* more relaxed treble, *slightly* smoother/softer bass. 
 Overall I would say ATE has more "laid-back" long listening session sound. 
 But note that differences are not big and depend on source gear/files and amping. ATR really starts shining when amped littlebit. Also tips should be used silicone ones with deep fit (KZ starlines are recommended by me).
  



b9scrambler said:


> daniel gur said:
> 
> 
> > I see alot of youtubers are "praising" the ATE's but no one here recommended them, why is that so?
> ...


 
 Agree.
  


spidernhan said:


> The ED7 sound signature is only the slightest variation of KZ's new ATR, *and as I said, those differences are a result of the driver housing.*


 
 Don`t agree - ATR has different driver inside as far as I know. Btw, ATE also has different driver inside from both (confirmed by my own "surgery").
 Also, I`ve done something that most of here hasn`t done - modded and tested different KZ drivers in same custom housing head-to-head.
 Even if drivers look same, they may sound different due to different tuning by KZ. 
 Unless it comes straight from KZ representative, I wouldn`t belive or spread such conclusions on housing size "tuning".
 Though, with some IEMs housing shape, size and venting makes changes to sound. 
  
 Would comment more but I gotta go atm.....
  
 EDIT:
  


b9scrambler said:


> khighly said:
> 
> 
> > ATR is flat on both sides and has terrible extension. The ATE's don't have the soundstage, but the signature is definitely better and they have much more extension in lows and highs.* I would never recommend the ATR's over the ATE's to anyone here.*
> ...


 
 LOL @ khigly and his/her obsessive subjective opinion on certain IEM`s.... despite many rate them highly and review them. No objectivity.
  
 Agree with You B9, I would recomend ATE only if ATR is not available. Though, ATE is better in modded configuration (FF-mod) than even modded ATR.
  



sometechnoob said:


> vidal said:
> 
> 
> > It offers a more balanced listening experience *if *you don't want the extra bass of the ZS3 or the brightness of the ZST. It has it's place in the KZ range. There's plenty of people who find the ZST too bright and the ZS3 too bassy, this is the ATR's niche.
> ...


 
 That`s where modded ATE beats ATR (modded or not) and sounds more dynamic/natural (little better lusher/richer mids).
 + slightly better imaging and soundstage.
  


gemmoglock said:


> 1clearhead said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! I can't understand how the ATR's are that bad!?....They are one of my favorites when used on a DAC or professionally amped, as well as the ATE's! Too many "QC issues" purchasing the ZST or the ZS3. Bought both the ZST and the ZS3 "twice" only to encounter issues with both the make and structure and the lack in balance of the left and right drivers as well.
> ...


 
 Agree! Decent DAC source + little amping make very noticeable jump @ SQ coming from typical smartphones and cheap mp3 players.


----------



## moneywoes

what version of these IEM's would be best suited for listening to hiphop / r&b on runs? thinking of getting a pair but not sure what model to get a mic would be nice. thanks


----------



## CoiL

Been taking little listening pause from music and today put on ZST(c) with Liquid tension Experiment playing... it sounds very good ...but my opinion still stays same as before - ZST doesn`t have harsh highs but there is little tip in highs that I notice immediately and with longer listening it can get too much. It is noticeable with cymbals, hangs, hi-hat and sometimes with synth.
 But it is still very good IEM with very good soundstage and imaging.
 It is still littlebit V-shaped signature and lacks little lushness/naturality/warmth in midrange instruments and sometimes vocals but still very good IEM... I`m just nitpicking on it


----------



## B9Scrambler

Nice to see you back in the thread @CoiL Missed you buddy


----------



## CoiL

Heh, just jumping by. Been busy with my new house restoration and very very soon going to be father - so, not much time to mess with modding and hobbys


----------



## To.M

coil said:


> Heh, just jumping by. Been busy with my new house restoration and very very soon going to be father - so, not much time to mess with modding and hobbys




Congrats man,great to hear it! Don't forget to educate your successor with good music from day 1!  And fortunately, there will be someone to pass your modding skills on to.


----------



## ytse1

I have been reading up on kz for a while and have had my ZST 's for a little over a week and am very impressed they sound as good and better than some over ear and inner ear 100 to 300 dollar earphones I have.
 I mostly listen threw android phone threw Power Amp and viper4android mod , between a little eq tweeks and bass and clarity tweaks these KZ IM's got me sold no more spending big bucks for great sound.
  
 The only problems I have with these:
 1-The cable vibration is really loud but i can deal with positioning and a clip or something.
 2- i need to find a tip that will seal longer without re positioning so much I have tried all combinations of all silicone tips i have but no luck   ( I have some foam tips on order hoping this is the answer)


----------



## SpiderNhan

ytse1 said:


> I have been reading up on kz for a while and have had my ZST 's for a little over a week and am very impressed they sound as good and better than some over ear and inner ear 100 to 300 dollar earphones I have.
> I mostly listen threw android phone threw Power Amp and viper4android mod , between a little eq tweeks and bass and clarity tweaks these KZ IM's got me sold no more spending big bucks for great sound.
> 
> The only problems I have with these:
> ...


 
 Foam tips are the only way I can use the ZST. The stock tips cause irritation after 20 mins or so and I have to adjust constantly. I'm waiting for the KZ foams, but for now I'm using the medium Znari T500 eartips and fit, comfort and seal are superb.


----------



## Cloudtastrophe

spidernhan said:


> Foam tips are the only way I can use the ZST. The stock tips cause irritation after 20 mins or so and I have to adjust constantly. I'm waiting for the KZ foams, but for now I'm using the medium Znari T500 eartips and fit, comfort and seal are superb.


 
 I actually ended up using a larger silicone tip from a different iem and kind of turned them into a shallow insertion iem. They no longer insert deep into my ear and kind of just "cup" my ear canal. There is still a seal and it is super comfortable.
  
 Ive had these for a bit of time and i am completely amazed at how good they sound! I think they may be better than my ttpod T1E, but im not sure since i lent them to a friend so take that with a grain of salt


----------



## 1clearhead

coil said:


> Heh, just jumping by. Been busy with my new house restoration and very very soon going to be father - so, not much time to mess with modding and hobbys


 
 Congrats, CoiL!


----------



## Slater

ytse1 said:


> I have been reading up on kz for a while and have had my ZST 's for a little over a week and am very impressed they sound as good and better than some over ear and inner ear 100 to 300 dollar earphones I have.
> I mostly listen threw android phone threw Power Amp and viper4android mod , between a little eq tweeks and bass and clarity tweaks these KZ IM's got me sold no more spending big bucks for great sound.
> 
> The only problems I have with these:
> ...


 
  
 Get the KZ silver plated upgrade cable to solve the microphonics problem. It reduces it significantly.


----------



## plazzo

actorlife said:


> Interesting disassembly of ATE: http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ate-disassembly/




Woah! Nice finding, those KZ ATE look as cool inside as they look outside.
Maybe I should get on the ATE train and get myself one.


----------



## Vidal

KZ ED4 and KZ EDSE have arrived today along with some other stuff, lets see how these old school KZs sound


----------



## Slater

vidal said:


> KZ ED4 and KZ EDSE have arrived today along with some other stuff, lets see how these old school KZs sound




Don't expect much on the ED4.


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't expect much on the ED4.


 
  
 Can't be any worse than the SUR S525 which I've just listen to


----------



## B9Scrambler

The ED4 is awesome! I liked them so much I now have three. Well, two ED4's and a Z1 which is basically the same thing but in black. They don't have a signature with widespread appeal, but they're a heck of a lot of fun in short bursts. Dial up the ZST's aggression meter to 10 and that's the ED4 in a nutshell.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Just wanted to pop in and give some ZST love. Yeah, compared to more expensive gear the flaws are very apparent, but simply popping them in and running around is a joy. They don't shift in your ears, are uber comfortable with foam tips, isolate well but allow for environmental awareness and are simply beautiful to look at. Maybe it's new toy syndrome, maybe I'm a sucker for the colors, but i find myself reaching for them over the 1More Triples, which I'm listening to right now and can undoubtedly tell they're better sounding. But just look at the darn things!
  

  
 Okay. I'm done gushing.


----------



## Drakis

My ZST doesn't have memory wire.


----------



## SpiderNhan

drakis said:


> My ZST doesn't have memory wire.



I only bought mine a few weeks ago. I read that they added the memory wire to later revisions. If you really want it, they sell replacement cables on AE for $2-$3.


----------



## Vidal

b9scrambler said:


> The ED4 is awesome! I liked them so much I now have three. Well, two ED4's and a Z1 which is basically the same thing but in black. They don't have a signature with widespread appeal, but they're a heck of a lot of fun in short bursts. Dial up the ZST's aggression meter to 10 and that's the ED4 in a nutshell.


 
  
 I did read your review after I finished mine and our experiences are very different, I thought they were harsh and really didn't enjoy them, the 2nd worst KZ I've heard in fact.
  
 Really don't understand how two people can have such differing opinions of the same earphone.


----------



## Drakis

spidernhan said:


> I only bought mine a few weeks ago. I read that they added the memory wire to later revisions. If you really want it, they sell replacement cables on AE for $2-$3.



No need to, i prefer it without the memory cable.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vidal said:


> I did read your review after I finished mine and our experiences are very different, I thought they were harsh and really didn't enjoy them, the 2nd worst KZ I've heard in fact.
> 
> Really don't understand how two people can have such differing opinions of the same earphone.


 
  
 I think I'm one of the few that like them, so you're not alone in your feelings towards them.
  
 * Edit: Just finished a listening session with them. I still like them for the reasons mentioned in my review. Just an entertaining aggressive earphone that bombards you with detail. Very fatiguing *


----------



## ytse1

And the cable is next thing im waiting for weeeeee


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I just got my ZST colorful 2 days ago and it has the memory wire, so new revisions do come with it.


----------



## fuzun

Which kz is best for metal music? I have hybrid gen4(bass is all over) and it is disgusting. I hate it. I want much more clear phones with good slightly bumped bass like dt770.

I am stuck between kz zs3,hybrid gen5 and kz zst. Last time I checked when zst first released and it was terrible. Then they fixed it. I do not know the current.


----------



## BoomBap08

the zst also scales up drastically depending on the cable used. and no, I'm not talking about the kz spc cable. I'm talking about cables costing $40-90. Just the other day, I got to try the zst of my friend that's hooked up with an unknown cable (it was only given to him by a friend that's why he has no idea about the cable) and the sound was just off-the-top craaaazyyy.

the lows was leveled leaving the mids more articulate and room to image with more top-end extension without being sibilant. shiiieet, I even a/b-ed it with an Ath-im50, tfz series 5s, simgot en700, tennmak pro, and some other sub $60 iems and it blows them off in comparison.


----------



## CoiL

boombap08 said:


> the zst also scales up drastically depending on the cable used. and no, I'm not talking about the kz spc cable. I'm talking about cables costing $40-90.


 
 While I do belive that cables can change IEM sound signature, I don`t belive in such drastic changes from cables
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
Btw, my collaboration with this new EU brand IEM I mentioned some time ago is starting to take shape, first prototype is finished and SQ and tuning is best I have atm.
Note that I don`t have any expensive IEMs in my hands to compare but it sounds very promising. Now still some fine-tuning to do and final design/shape process begins.


----------



## Slater

vidal said:


> I did read your review after I finished mine and our experiences are very different, I thought they were harsh and really didn't enjoy them, the 2nd worst KZ I've heard in fact.
> 
> Really don't understand how two people can have such differing opinions of the same earphone.


 
  
 Told ya they were turds LOL
  
 The sound improves if you pry off off the aluminum "button" on the back. Takes 15 seconds with a butter knife, and it's better than throwing them in the trash.


----------



## Slater

fuzun said:


> Which kz is best for metal music? I have hybrid gen4(bass is all over) and it is disgusting. I hate it. I want much more clear phones with good slightly bumped bass like dt770.
> 
> I am stuck between kz zs3,hybrid gen5 and kz zst. Last time I checked when zst first released and it was terrible. Then they fixed it. I do not know the current.


 
  
 ATE, HDS1, or HDS3.
  
 ATE really shines with the open grille mod (very simple to do).


----------



## Pankaj135

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've heard a lot about Kz and recently bought the Kz ate-s 5th gen. I've been a long time lurker.

Now since I've received these kz ates I found the earphones balance is a little off. Though the vocals of a person are in the middle I perceive that right earbud is more musical than the left earbud. Now what should I do? Please help!


----------



## kokakolia

pankaj135 said:


> Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've heard a lot about Kz and recently bought the Kz ate-s 5th gen. I've been a long time lurker.
> 
> Now since I've received these kz ates I found the earphones balance is a little off. Though the vocals of a person are in the middle I perceive that right earbud is more musical than the left earbud. Now what should I do? Please help!




Your earbuds are defective. Keep in mind that China earbuds have lower quality control than most other brand name earphones. So yeah, this kind of thing happens. Fortunately, KZs are so cheap that you can just buy another one. The shipping time sucks though.


----------



## SpiderNhan

pankaj135 said:


> Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've heard a lot about Kz and recently bought the Kz ate-s 5th gen. I've been a long time lurker.
> 
> Now since I've received these kz ates I found the earphones balance is a little off. Though the vocals of a person are in the middle I perceive that right earbud is more musical than the left earbud. Now what should I do? Please help!


 
 I had a similar problem with my KZ ZS3. Luckily GearBest shipped me another pair, no questions asked. Still waiting for it to arrive, but their customer service is wonderful.
  
 I also had a KZ ZST in the same order, and while there was no channel imbalance on the ZST, there was a vent on the right earpiece that wasn't pierced all the way through. I had to fix that myself with a needle. So, yes, there are some quality control issues with KZ stuff but a good seller should refund or replace it for you.


----------



## Slater

spidernhan said:


> I had a similar problem with my KZ ZS3. Luckily GearBest shipped me another pair, no questions asked. Still waiting for it to arrive, but their customer service is wonderful.
> 
> I also had a KZ ZST in the same order, and while there was no channel imbalance on the ZST, there was a vent on the right earpiece that wasn't pierced all the way through. I had to fix that myself with a needle. So, yes, there are some quality control issues with KZ stuff but a good seller should refund or replace it for you.


 
  
 True that.
  
 Besides channel imbalances, I've had defective BA drivers, clogged ports, clogged grilles, drivers not connected (ie not soldered), flange screens that had fallen down into the housing, and even RUST inside of 1 side of an ATE:
  

  
 Here's a ZS3 that arrived with a crushed sound tube (not mine, but posted by another member):
  

  
 It doesn't stop me from buying dozens of KZs though. The defects I've received have been 5% of the totals I own. When I get a dud, I just contact the seller & it gets taken care of. The replacement is always perfect.
  
*SpiderNhan's *advice is spot on - as soon as you receive a defective pair, you have to contact the seller ASAP to get it resolved.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The ZS3's crushed sound tube issue was the reason for the ZS3's early recall and delayed shipment. KZ caught that early, thankfully 
  
 Considering how many of these things they pump out, the number of models, and the cost, in my experience their QC is pretty good. Not great, but acceptable.
  
 What bothers me about KZ are all the unannounced revisions. If they made it clear which revision you're getting it would be awesome.I don't see that happening unless they step up to more expensive, capable earphones. Right now it's probably not worth their time given the prices their earphones sell for.


----------



## Carrow

Anyone got any tips for reinforcing the detachable cable connection? ZSTs arrived on Monday, and while I really like their sound, the cable's tendency to disconnect if I so much as breathe heavily is doing my screwing head in. Is the connection faulty or is it really meant to be that weak??


----------



## B9Scrambler

carrow said:


> Anyone got any tips for reinforcing the detachable cable connection? ZSTs arrived on Monday, and while I really like their sound, the cable's tendency to disconnect if I so much as breathe heavily is doing my screwing head in. Is the connection faulty or is it really meant to be that weak??


 

 Sure you got it plugged in all the way? That was the problem for most. It should be a very tight, secure fit.


----------



## Carrow

b9scrambler said:


> Sure you got it plugged in all the way? That was the problem for most. It should be a very tight, secure fit.




It should be plugged in all the way, as I can feel it click into place when it happens, but I don't know what to do besides that that won't risk breaking them!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The cable for the ZST is pretty damn secure. Push it in all the way so that the cable indent becomes flush with the iem casing.


----------



## actorlife

Edit


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote:


actorlife said:


> Carro make sure the Left and Right lettering on the cable is inside not outward then simply click them in. You can look at pics of KZ advertisement/people wearing them on google. LMK
> 
> http://m.geekbuying.com/item/KZ-ZST-Pro-Dynamic-HiFi-Bass-Music-Sport-In-Ear-Earphones-Colorful-374168.html


 

 ​I think you have it reversed. L and R markings should be facing outward, not inward.


----------



## fuzun

slaterlovesspam said:


> ATE, HDS1, or HDS3.
> 
> ATE really shines with the open grille mod (very simple to do).


 
*I need comparison of ZS3 and Hybrid gen4*. This will help my choice very much.
  
 I will also look at your models but why did you recommend ate instead of atr? And I am first seeing hds1 and hds3, strange


----------



## SomeTechNoob

spidernhan said:


> ​I think you have it reversed. L and R markings should be facing outward, not inward.


 
 I can confirm.  The L/R should face outward.


----------



## actorlife

Edit


----------



## SpiderNhan

Seems pretty clear to me.


----------



## actorlife

Edit Hahaha SO i switched them and indeed you guys were Right. I can confirm they sound the same inward/outward no difference to my ears. Same beautiful SQ. I feel better NOW.


----------



## Slater

carrow said:


> Anyone got any tips for reinforcing the detachable cable connection? ZSTs arrived on Monday, and while I really like their sound, the cable's tendency to disconnect if I so much as breathe heavily is doing my screwing head in. Is the connection faulty or is it really meant to be that weak??


 
  
 I am 97.6% positive that you have them plugged in backwards.
  
 All of this upwards, downwards, inside, outside talk is confusing.
  
 There's a MUCH easier way to tell which is the correct way to plug the cables in.
  
 If you look REAL close, the plugs are only designed to only go in 1 way due to it having a rounded top and a flat bottom. Also from a side view of the plug, it is longer on the top than the bottom. It IS possible to plug them in the other way around, and when doing so they don't seat in fully and fall out easily.
  
 Here's what the tip of the male cable looks like (front view on left, side view on right):
  

  
 You simply make the male plug match the direction of the female socket. Like putting a round peg into a round hole.


----------



## Pankaj135

pankaj135 said:


> Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've heard a lot about Kz and recently bought the Kz ate-s 5th gen. I've been a long time lurker.
> 
> Now since I've received these kz ates I found the earphones balance is a little off. Though the vocals of a person are in the middle I perceive that right earbud is more musical than the left earbud. Now what should I do? Please help!




Now the seller is offering to pay $5 via PayPal for return shipping and asking to ship the earphones back. 

I bought the earphones from AliExpress.

Please help.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

This is why I like to order from GearBest instead of aliex


----------



## Pankaj135

sometechnoob said:


> This is why I like to order from GearBest instead of aliex




Well I've uploaded video evidence and raised a dispute to refund to aliexpress. So let's see.


----------



## Thiago Melo

guys i have 6$ at my gearbest wallet and im looking for a worth phone.. the best option is kz atr?or there is any else?


----------



## Slater

thiago melo said:


> guys i have 6$ at my gearbest wallet and im looking for a worth phone.. the best option is kz atr?or there is any else?


 
  
 That's a really generic question, like "what is the best car or truck"? Best for what? Best for who? Best why?
  
 To prevent having 20 people give you 20 different answers, it would help us to know a little more information. This way, it will be much easier for people to make more accurate recommendations.
  

Could you describe in better detail what your preferences are? Do you like lots of bass? Accurate details? Bright treble?
What other headphones or in-ears do you own, and do you have any of them that you prefer most?
What music genres do you listen to?
Are you a basshead?
What are you driving them with - a phone? Computer? DAP or DAC?
Do you have a headphone amp?
Do you have big or small ears?
Do you plan on sleeping or laying down with them?
Do you like memory wires that go around the back of your ears?
Do you need isolation (for at work or commuting on public transportation)?
Do you need something to work out or play sports in?
Do you require full controls, like volume buttons? Or is a mic with a single button OK? Or would you prefer no mic at all?
  
 Finally, KZs are like $5-$7 on average, so don't be afraid to buy 2 or 3 and figure out which one you like. That way, you're not feeling pressure to make sure you get "the best" one. You can always keep the other pairs at work, as a backup, give to your bae, whatever.


----------



## actorlife

Thiago Melo To start off you can try the KZ ATE or ED3. Then later KZ ZST and KZ ZS3. I have them all and they all have their own Signature sound. Like Slater said let us know the music you listen to to help you more.


----------



## Yesin

guywholikeshifi said:


> Let me know what you think of them compared to the Piston 3's. I want to upgrade from them too.


 
  
 The ZS3s are a welcome upgrade over my P3s. I listened to it for about an hour a day for the past week. 
  
*The Good*
  
 Sound: It has a similar sound signature to the P3 but with stronger bass.In addition the mids sound a bit raised compared to the P3s and the highs have more clarity Which in short was exactly what I was looking for. Sound stage seems better as well.
  
  
*The shortcomings are Minor*
  
 Build: The unboxing and setting up experience was quite poor.Until I listened to them I was in doubt whether I've received genuine ZS3s. Build materials are average but the construction seems good enough.
  
 Sound: Rarely the bass tends to overpower the mids on some pop songs but it's in no way a deal breaker.
  
*Conclusion*
 In short it's the best $7.99 I've ever spent. Great sound quality for the price.


----------



## Mus1c

Quote:actorlife 





> Edit Hahaha SO i switched them and indeed you guys were Right. I can confirm they sound the same inward/outward no difference to my ears. Same beautiful SQ. I feel better NOW.


 
  

 me too i got really confused when i first got it the zs3 and i really dont know which ways to insert the cable but lastly i search on google picture of zs3 and i figure it out  it inserted upside with the simbols left and right .the sound doesnt change they all the same whether you inserted upside or downside .


----------



## Daniel Gur

Well, after a week or so, I finally ordered some earphones that you suggested me guys. I ordered from ebay: KZ: ATR, x2 ZST - 1 for a friend, ED9, x2 ZS3 - 1 for a friend, ED7 and the rock zircons. hope at least 1 of them will sound good


----------



## smy1

are the zst any good? I heard they are not.


----------



## actorlife

smy1 said:


> are the zst any good? I heard they are not.



Depends on your music taste. No coloring on them you get the real sound and tight good bass. Sure there better expensive ones out there. I would put them up there $100-150 category iems. If you love your bass then consider ZS3.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> me too i got really confused when i first got it the zs3 and i really dont know which ways to insert the cable but lastly i search on google picture of zs3 and i figure it out  it inserted upside with the simbols left and right .the sound doesnt change they all the same whether you inserted upside or downside .



It would have been nice KZ would say this. There has been more questions about how these go in than any other. Good thing this thread is here.


----------



## smy1

actorlife said:


> Depends on your music taste. No coloring on them you get the real sound and tight good bass. Sure there better expensive ones out there. I would put them up there $100-150 category iems. If you love your bass then consider ZS3.




Got the zs3 and it's really good. I prefer good vocals for edm/pop


----------



## ext23

I've been listening to my TH-X00 for the last two months straight. Just yesterday I decided to bring my ATR with me on the train for a change, and I gotta say for $5 I have absolutely NO problems with them.
  
 It has a nice, firm bass that doesn't rumble, but it hits hard enough. Mids are suuuper smooth. Highs lack a tiny amount of sparkle, but highs are the hardest thing to get right in any IEM.
  
 Overall a smooth, slightly veiled, easy listening IEM that suits pop and electronic music that already contains a lot of harsh treble sounds. I find them a bit muddy when listening to rock/acoustic music, but I never listen to rock/acoustic on IEMs anyway. I could listen to these for hours without any fatigue.


----------



## aerodynamics

Just received my ZSTs from AE and WOW. Without any BI at all, they are really good. The documentation in the box seems to indicate they are burn-in at the factory? At least that's what I interpreted from the poor English translation. Nonetheless, they sound nice. I listen mostly to current pop, rap, R&B and these seem perfect for today's digitally recorded and mixed music. Very balanced, the bass is present but not pronounced like the Piston 3. Vocals and mids are forward. Soundstage is a bit disappointing but most IEMs are to my ears. I also have a hard time with fitment on most IEMs but the ZST tips along with the memory wire feel very secure.
  
 I was looking for an IEM version of the Samson SR850 and these seem to be the closest out of everything I've tried. They really sound like over the ear cans. And all for $8 USD!


----------



## flexy321

Hi guys,

I am extremely new to these Chinese budget earphones, in fact I just heard yesterday about them and now spent quite some time on research.

I am using buds mainly for listening to music and playing games on the PC, here I also use the EQ amp that came with my Soundblaster ZX. I don't really know what the definition of a "bass head" is, but I LOOOVE deep and "round" bass when I am listening (mainly EDM) so I guess I am a basshead. (Nothing is worse to me that buds which when you try don't have any bass whatsoever).

When I EQ, I am usually always ending up doing a typical "V"...so I guess I am a "V" type guy as well.

I did some research and ended up with KZ EDR1s and Rock Zircons as being interesting, where in one review the guy said that the KZ EDR1s are like Rock Zircon clones. Anyway. now just from theory and reading reviews I ordered two KZ EDR1s. (There is some confusion for me whether the KZ EDR1 are the same as the KZ EDS...)

Not being an audiophile by a long-shot, in the past I was actually very happy with the SONY MDR818 (I still use a pair which in fact I just fixed yesterday since a driver completely crapped out so I had to solder in a driver from a spare/broken MDR818 I had lying around.) Any other earbud I have tried so far, compared to the MDR818, which are ANCIENT by any standard, sucks...but the MDR818 still deliver a nice sound so this is sort-of my standard in terms of sound.

Anyway just wondering for other recommendations of budget buds that may be good. My head is spinning. Philips SHE3590? Should I indeed get the Rock Zircons even if the KDR1's are supposed to be similar? Monk VE maybe? These are the ones which caught my eye so far.

Thanks!!


----------



## To.M

Forget about Monk+ for EDM, from earbuds better would be Ty Hi-Z 32 - more bass, from the earphones in my profile, the best sub bass has Tennmak Piano (just checked some EDM playlist on Tidal and it sounds powerful) .


----------



## loomisjohnson

flexy321 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am extremely new to these Chinese budget earphones, in fact I just heard yesterday about them and now spent quite some time on research.
> 
> ...


 

 the current go-to for budget basshead would be the kz zs3, which have the benefit of excellent isolation. the tennmak dulcimer are a little pricier ($18) but even better. i personally don't like the zircon. good luck.


----------



## Tinesife

Hello, can anyone describe the difference between 4 ATE variants briefly? (ATE, ATE-S, ATR, HD9) thanks


----------



## VinceHill24

Finally something new from KZ. Bluetooth cable for ZST. That design looks original though, unlike any other Chinese brand bluetooth cable i've seen on the market currently.


----------



## actorlife

vincehill24 said:


> Finally something new from KZ. Bluetooth cable for ZST. That design looks original though, unlike any other Chinese brand bluetooth cable i've seen on the market currently.




Darn whyd ya have to show me that cable. I want that cable. Where can i get it?


----------



## VinceHill24

actorlife said:


> Darn whyd ya have to show me that cable. I want that cable. Where can i get it?


I saw it uploaded today at KZ's alibaba store. Not sure where to get it yet but i believe very soon most sellers gonna sell it. Price i saw there is 55yuan though not sure how other sellers gonna price it later.


----------



## flexy321

I actually can't find their official Alibaba store, only what seems to be their official aliexpress store. (If there is actually a difference). There, however their buds are slighty "overpriced" as compared to many other sellers. Like on alibaba, when I do a search it comes up w/ a ****-ton of vendors....and the same of course also on ebay or elsewhere.

Now I know vendors like DX, gearbest etc...and the ones I ordered I actually got from DX....my question is if there is any vendor to avoid, as in, how to know who is actually selling genuine KZ ones and not clones (of the clones)? (seems to me gearbest is still the best option, also looking at prices and free s/h)


----------



## Daniel Gur

vincehill24 said:


> Finally something new from KZ. Bluetooth cable for ZST. That design looks original though, unlike any other Chinese brand bluetooth cable i've seen on the market currently.


 
 looks very long, couldnt they make it shorter?


----------



## ezekiel77

Took advantage of the recent AliExpress sale to get these babies for cheap. Can't believe I spent a shade less than $28 for ALL THREE. I've paid more in shipping for some IEMs!

 The manual says 5-minute burn-in so it's time to share some early impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





:
 ATR: ATH-IM series-like fit, comfy, very good bass quality/quantity balance, smooth mids and treble. Small soundstage but c'mon 5 BUCKS!!! A good all-rounder.
  
 ZS3: The bestest fit of the lot. Similar to iBasso IT03 in looks. Warm, bassy, most bass quantity of the lot. Mids slightly recessed and gentle treble. A bit of 3D-like imaging owing to some width and depth. I use this for working out and housework but won't be relaxing with these bcos of the boomy bass.
  
 ZST Colorful: Sonically the most accomplished signature I've heard in a KZ (also had HDS1, ED3c and ED9). Bass is slightly less than ZS3, mids are clear and there is more treble presence up top. Bass is still slightly bloaty. The 3D-ness is kicked up a notch bcos of the airier treble. Well done, but why do the eartips remind me of a certain body part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Great bargains, all. I'd rather spam-gift my buddies with ATR rather than Monks.


----------



## ephrank

Ordered ZST, ZS3 to check them out. Hopefully they'll worth every penny! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 GearBest shipping is painfully slow


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Good picks.  Both are my favorite out of all the IEMs I have(albeit they're all budget stuff).  ZS3 fits infinitely better in my ears than the ZST though so it gets more usage.


----------



## ezekiel77

Sometimes I browse the recommendations thread and come across those "best IEMs for $100" posts. I'm tempted to tell them to get 20 ATRs.


----------



## 1clearhead

ezekiel77 said:


> Sometimes I browse the recommendations thread and come across those "best IEMs for $100" posts. I'm tempted to tell them to get 20 ATRs.


 
  
 Hey? ...that actually sounds reasonable....


----------



## Vidal

I thought the KZ GR were supposed to be crap?
  
 I'm listening to a pair now and they're making a pretty damn fine job with Goldfrapp's new album.


----------



## actorlife

vidal said:


> I thought the KZ GR were supposed to be crap?
> 
> I'm listening to a pair now and they're making a pretty damn fine job with Goldfrapp's new album. :blink:



Never heard of those GR. Edit OH looked around said to have bad mids. WELL its been a month since i ordered the ED3 Perfection. Sent the seller a email about refund. Im sure they cant compare with the ZST or ZS3 or ATE anyways.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vidal said:


> I thought the KZ GR were supposed to be crap?
> 
> I'm listening to a pair now and they're making a pretty damn fine job with Goldfrapp's new album.


 
  
 That's why I rely only on my own ears for the most part, lol. If I didn't, I would have missed out on the ANV which is probably my fav KZ.


----------



## VinceHill24

vidal said:


> I thought the KZ GR were supposed to be crap?
> 
> I'm listening to a pair now and they're making a pretty damn fine job with Goldfrapp's new album. :blink:


And i thought i was the only weird one enjoying the KZ GR about 2-3 months back before i got the k3pro. I've tried replacing with golden filter of ED9 with a wide bore eartips and it sounds amazing to me, should be up there with those ATR, ZS3 instead of down there with the ED12. But the only negative i have for them is they're heavy and after like 2-3 months of rough usage i kinda get all the metallic rusty type feel / smell whenever i handle it though they're very solid. JMHO


----------



## toddy0191

vidal said:


> I thought the KZ GR were supposed to be crap?
> 
> I'm listening to a pair now and they're making a pretty damn fine job with Goldfrapp's new album. :blink:




Good choice of album. Tests out the sub bass pretty well.


----------



## Vidal

toddy0191 said:


> Good choice of album. Tests out the sub bass pretty well.


 
  
 Whilst Felt Mountain tests the treble 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm a big Goldfrapp fan.


----------



## toddy0191

vidal said:


> Whilst Felt Mountain tests the treble   I'm a big Goldfrapp fan.




Me too. Seen them live 7 times now.

They're my go to headphone test music. Usually start with with Seventh Tree. 

May have to get the GR now.


----------



## Vidal

toddy0191 said:


> Me too. Seen them live 7 times now.
> 
> They're my go to headphone test music. Usually start with with Seventh Tree.
> 
> May have to get the GR now.


 
  
 Those Winintones you got are better, there's also the Winintone RG-EB220 that are on amazon as well now, check how much they resemble the original Rockjaw Alfa Genus. £9.99


----------



## toddy0191

vidal said:


> Those Winintones you got are better, there's also the Winintone RG-EB220 that are on amazon as well now, check how much they resemble the original Rockjaw Alfa Genus. £9.99 :eek:




If they're the same as the Alfa Genus' that's a steal as they're well reviewed.. I just got the Rock Jaw Kommands off Amazon for £30 and they're great.


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> That's why I rely only on my own ears for the most part, lol. If I didn't, I would have missed out on the ANV which is probably my fav KZ.


 
  
 Agreed. The ANV are my favorite KZ as well. They are really something special. I don't know why KZ doesn't still make them. I think the ATE dwarfed them (and all of their other models at the time) because the ATE looked expensive and 'professional'. I love the ATE sound, but you have to admit that flashy gold grille inside the translucent housing is sexy and hooked a lot of people on looks alone (like a trophy wife LOL)


----------



## Carrow

slaterlovesspam said:


> I am 97.6% positive that you have them plugged in backwards.
> 
> All of this upwards, downwards, inside, outside talk is confusing.
> 
> ...


 
 Literally none of these suggestions worked for me. I took them on a weekend trip to Edinburgh and the damn things would not stay put. Every single time without fail they would disconnect. Great sound quality but the cable is the most aggravating aspect of any IEM I have used in ages. Such a shame. Starting to think my cable is faulty because I've tried inserting them every possible way and they never stay in. These were only like €30 from Rockit Headphones a couple of weeks back (I know the appeal also comes from the fact you can get these for ridiculously cheap from sites like Gearbest, Taobao etc., but personally I like knowing the things I ordered will actually turn up and not take months to do so. €30 is a hella good price for earphones like these anyway, just... The *** cable ruined my experience with them. Should I try the ATEs, ATRs or some other model next?


----------



## Slater

carrow said:


> Literally none of these suggestions worked for me. I took them on a weekend trip to Edinburgh and the damn things would not stay put. Every single time without fail they would disconnect. Great sound quality but the cable is the most aggravating aspect of any IEM I have used in ages. Such a shame. Starting to think my cable is faulty because I've tried inserting them every possible way and they never stay in. These were only like €30 from Rockit Headphones a couple of weeks back (I know the appeal also comes from the fact you can get these for ridiculously cheap from sites like Gearbest, Taobao etc., but personally I like knowing the things I ordered will actually turn up and not take months to do so. €30 is a hella good price for earphones like these anyway, just... The *** cable ruined my experience with them. Should I try the ATEs, ATRs or some other model next?


 
  
 That's so weird. Both of mine are so tight it takes a ton of force to get them seated all the way.
  
 I assume you've tried to contact the seller? I mean, yours are obviously as defective as the Hindenburg.


----------



## ayao

vidal said:


> I thought the KZ GR were supposed to be crap?
> 
> I'm listening to a pair now and they're making a pretty damn fine job with Goldfrapp's new album. :blink:




The first people that tried the GR thought they were pretty good (I recall someone comparing them favourably to the KC06).

A lot of people got the "revised" version and had negative impressions; imagine EQ-ing everything down 20db except for 80hz and 3khz, that's what mine sounded like and I binned mine the day I got them.

Apparently the nozzles were completely different to the earlier version, but because KZ was pumping out new models at the time (DT5, ED8/9/10), the GR kinda disappeared from the thread. Perhaps KZ revised the GR once again..


----------



## Carrow

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's so weird. Both of mine are so tight it takes a ton of force to get them seated all the way.
> 
> I assume you've tried to contact the seller? I mean, yours are obviously as defective as the Hindenburg.


 
 Have just done so - I don't know if the headphone plugs are defective or it's just the cable, so I've explained the situation to them and am awaiting a response to see what my options are.


----------



## Slater

carrow said:


> Have just done so - I don't know if the headphone plugs are defective or it's just the cable, so I've explained the situation to them and am awaiting a response to see what my options are.


 
  
 Yeah, too bad you don't have another pair to test them with.
  
 If the seller flakes out, you could always permanently glue the plugs in place. Should only need a drop or 2.


----------



## feizor

I am relatively new to the world of Kz iems. The model range is a bit overwhelming. Which model would have good SQ and a slight v-shaped sound signature without mids being too recessed? I mostly listen to EDM and trace with female vocals. 

Thanks!


----------



## ezekiel77

feizor said:


> I am relatively new to the world of Kz iems. The model range is a bit overwhelming. Which model would have good SQ and a slight v-shaped sound signature without mids being too recessed? I mostly listen to EDM and trace with female vocals.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 ZST is the best bet.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

You could alternatively just buy another cable.  Silver cable is $5-7.  I've heard the stock cables can be bought as well, but I have trouble finding them.


----------



## Slater

ezekiel77 said:


> ZST is the best bet.


 
  
 Or ATE & ATR


----------



## feizor

slaterlovesspam said:


> Or ATE & ATR




Thanks for the recommendations, what is the difference between the different ATE versions?


----------



## ezekiel77

Listening to some top 40 radio, a lotta R&B stuff. ZS3 gets my head bopping and feet tapping to some Weeknd. It's brilliant, surpasses my enjoyment of DN1000. Dat bass!!
  
 If KZ came earlier in my life like 2 years ago I might've called it a day much earlier. But then this is HF so...


----------



## Saoshyant

Just for reference, the .75mm VE balanced cable doesn't fit the ZST due to the recessed connector.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Got my KZ ZST silver cable in just under 2 weeks from eBay.
  
 Since I haven't seen anyone post the packaging pictures, here you go.
  
*Shrink-wrapped box with a nice pull tab.*
     
  
*Unboxed.  Cable removed.*
     
  
*CABLE HAS MEMORY WIRE!  Which I am personally fine with, but others might not be.  Connectors and split look to be of the same moulding as the regular cable.*
    
  

  
*Cable is a lot more flexible and looks absolutely amazing with the ZST Colorfuls.  A bit pricy at $5, but I ended up grabbing it for $3 after using some eBay Bucks.  Woo.*

  
 Sound difference is not significant enough for me to warrant any sort of sonic review.  Not really a believer in cables changing sound anyways.  However, I measured the impedance difference, which I am wiling to report.  Stock cable gave me 0.7Ohms from 3.5mm plug to IEM pin, silver cable gave me 0.4Ohms.  Small improvement.


----------



## SpiderNhan

> Originally Posted by *SomeTechNoob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *Cable is a lot more flexible and looks absolutely amazing with the ZST Colorfuls.  A bit pricy at $5, but I ended up grabbing it for $3 after using some eBay Bucks.  Woo.*


 
 Oh how Chi-Fi has spoiled us you beautiful, beautiful person.


----------



## buzz2086

Anyone owns the ZST , ATE and ATR  ? Interested in a comparison between these iems. I listen mostly pop songs. Was wondering which I should get first.


----------



## Vidal

buzz2086 said:


> Anyone owns the ZST , ATE and ATR  ? Interested in a comparison between these iems. I listen mostly pop songs. Was wondering which I should get first.


 
  
 I have reviews up on my site of ZST, ATE-S and ATR which is close to what you're looking for, check my profile for a link.


----------



## chompchomps

Anyone tried removing the memory cable bit in the silver cable? its kinda annoying me a bit


----------



## Pankaj135

Hi guys, my refund has been issued on aliexpress. Now which earphones should I buy Ates or Zs3? Both are similarly priced.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ZS3 imo


----------



## Mus1c

ZS3 all the way


----------



## AplexApple

Alright so after a while I'm having 2 annoying problems with my ZSTs that really discourage me to using them. 
First problem is a popping noise in the left earbud
Second problem is that the eartips comes out so easily, hell one time i took out my right earbud and the eartip got stuck inside my ear.. 
Anyone got a solution to fixing these?


----------



## ricthaman

So I'm following this 'Chi-Fi' trend for some time, and decided to jump on them. Got the KZ ZST for 11$ shipped.
  
 I must say, I'm pretty blown away. I have rather spoiled ears (W4R, SE535, TF10, many Beyers, Ultrasone etc). The packaging looks very stylish. It's cheap, sure, but they made a decent effort to present the earphones nicely. Next: detachable cable. For this price?! Awesome! 
  
 But the sound, damn. I had to get used to them at first, they are quite direct sounding but the level of detail is just astounding. I mean, they're not rivalling my Westone 4R's, but they sure as hell sound pretty nice. Well-defined, spacious, good seperation en nice bass. The bass is not as full and 'wooly' or 'mellow' as I'd like, and could be beter layered, but it's nicely balanced in the mix.
  
 I've been listening to the ZST's for a few days no, and even hooked them up to my Dragonfly. Every now and then, I hear a small flaw or something that I'd like different in the sound signature, but never really annoying. But then I remember; these things costed 11$!
  
 I must say I like them better with 'older' rock music and jazz, then with modern (pop)music. They just render older rock music so nicely; you really notice the added value of an armature driver.
  
 I have the ATE's on the way as well, and I'm looking forward to getting to know these as well.
  
 Cheers, and happy listening!


----------



## rendyG

What is the difference in KZ ZST vs pro (the colorful one)?
 There is a sale of the old ones for $11, is it worth getting the pro? I read somewhere that it is updated version, so.. does it sound better?
 sale: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
 Thanks


----------



## actorlife

pankaj135 said:


> Hi guys, my refund has been issued on aliexpress. Now which earphones should I buy Ates or Zs3? Both are similarly priced.




Both are great ZS3 Cool looking factor plus a bit more Bass.


----------



## actorlife

radek jandl said:


> What is the difference in KZ ZST vs pro (the colorful one)?
> There is a sale of the old ones for $11, is it worth getting the pro? I read somewhere that it is updated version, so.. does it sound better?
> sale: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
> Thanks


 Simply put No. Only added memory wire on new ones.


----------



## actorlife

aplexapple said:


> Alright so after a while I'm having 2 annoying problems with my ZSTs that really discourage me to using them.
> First problem is a popping noise in the left earbud
> Second problem is that the eartips comes out so easily, hell one time i took out my right earbud and the eartip got stuck inside my ear..
> Anyone got a solution to fixing these?



OH crap. Defective contact seller and tell them I'm sure they will send you another pair or ask for refund. Use the large tip or foam tip.


----------



## Romis

I'm really enjoying my KST with the upgrade cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## rendyG

actorlife said:


> Simply put No. Only added memory wire on new ones.



What do you mean by memory wire?


----------



## actorlife

They just make the earphone secure when you wrap it around your ears. Basically a piece of plastic with a thin metal like coil inside that's on the top part of the earphone and it bends around your ear. I like it some people don't.


----------



## Vidal

actorlife said:


> They just make the earphone secure when you wrap it around your ears. Basically a piece of plastic with a thin metal like coil inside that's on the top part of the earphone and it bends around your ear. I like it some people don't.


 
  
 Never seen any ZSTs with memory wire cable yet, Colourful or t'other. Where did you get yours from?


----------



## To.M

Yeah, it looks like new batches of ZST come memory wires, some guys from the forum in my country also got them (from GB).


----------



## SpiderNhan

Quote:


vidal said:


> Never seen any ZSTs with memory wire cable yet, Colourful or t'other. Where did you get yours from?


 

 I got mine from GearBest a few weeks ago.


----------



## actorlife

vidal said:


> Never seen any ZSTs with memory wire cable yet, Colourful or t'other. Where did you get yours from?




Yep newer batches have them. Wish mine had them. Maybe later if they have the cable in black I may get it. Don't like the Grey-white one. No biggie wraps around good enough.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

vidal said:


> Never seen any ZSTs with memory wire cable yet, Colourful or t'other. Where did you get yours from?




Both the silver cable and stock came with memory wire as of a week ago.


----------



## Vidal

sometechnoob said:


> Both the silver cable and stock came with memory wire as of a week ago.


 
  
  
 I'm just thinking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, the last ones I opened were ages ago.
  
 I've seen them pass through on the way out to customers for all I know they could have all had the memory wire. The silver cable I have in stock is the memory one though. I must be having a senior moment.


----------



## rendyG

actorlife said:


> They just make the earphone secure when you wrap it around your ears. Basically a piece of plastic with a thin metal like coil inside that's on the top part of the earphone and it bends around your ear. I like it some people don't.



OK, thx for clarification.
Something like ear hooks I guess.


----------



## actorlife

radek jandl said:


> OK, thx for clarification.
> Something like ear hooks I guess.



Ya basically.


----------



## meeotch666

Holy crap - 1144 pages...  I read about as much as I could, without risking getting fired from my job.  But I'm still slightly bewildered by all the various models.  Could someone do a sanity check on the following?
  
 I'm looking for a good pair of basshead IEMs to replace my beloved (and now dying) Sony MDR-EX210B's.  (You can still find them on eBay, but they're like $100 now, vs. $30-40 when they were still being made.)  The EX201B's could put out a respectable thump, while still sounding, to me, pretty clear in the other frequencies.
  
 From what I've gleaned from this thread and elsewhere, it sounds like the KZ ZS3's, ED9's, and possibly ZST's are probably what I should be looking at.  I've also read good things about the ED10's, but they seem to be completely unavailable now.  I'm not a huge fan of over-the-ear IEMs - which I think both the ZS* models are - is that correct?  (I don't plan on wearing them while doing anything more strenuous than a stairmaster.)
  
 For comparison, I'm looking at the Sony MDR-XB50AP's, which seem to be the EX210's descendants, or the MDR-AS800AP's which I've read are superior in most respects, while still being bassy enough.  One thing I've noticed is that the Sonys have 12mm drivers (EX210B's had 13.5mm), while I think all the KZ's are 8mm?  Not sure how significant that is, sound-wise, though.
  
 Have I got my info straight?  Are there other KZ models I should be looking at?


----------



## Slater

meeotch666 said:


> Holy crap - 1144 pages...  I read about as much as I could, without risking getting fired from my job.  But I'm still slightly bewildered by all the various models.  Could someone do a sanity check on the following?
> 
> I'm looking for a good pair of basshead IEMs to replace my beloved (and now dying) Sony MDR-EX210B's.  (You can still find them on eBay, but they're like $100 now, vs. $30-40 when they were still being made.)  The EX201B's could put out a respectable thump, while still sounding, to me, pretty clear in the other frequencies.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're a basshead, and you don't like over-the-ear style IEMs, I would check out the Urbanfun HiFi, MEMT X5, or Rock Zircon (in that order). All 3 are compact and inexpensive ($12-$20).
  
 Supposedly some Zircons die an early death due to a short in the cable near the microphone, but this isn't a widespread issue. I own 2 pairs of Zircons & have has zero issues. If they die in a year, you'd be out $10 whoopdee-doo.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

So I solved a large amount of my comfort issues with my ZST Colorful.  How?
  
 I basically trashed the KZ Starline tips.  The rubber's way too stiff for one.  I can't get a good seal with the smaller sizes and the larger sizes make my ear feel like it's being stretched wide open.  Then the little nibs on the tip are almost like spikes poking the inside your ear.  These little nibs cause the ear tip to be excessively thick so they don't conform to your ear at all.  And lastly, the bore itself is quite wider than the ones that come stock with the ZS3/ATR/ED9, furthering the discomfort.
  
 Now obviously this will vary from person to person.  I put on the tips with the red ring that the ED9 came with(since I think my ED9 came with 2 medium ones, idk why).  Looks to be similar to the ZS3's one as well, but less red.  Now the ZST fits much farther in my ear without the discomfort and the IEM doesn't put as much pressure on the back of my ear.


----------



## Mus1c

meeotch666 said:


> Holy crap - 1144 pages...  I read about as much as I could, without risking getting fired from my job.  But I'm still slightly bewildered by all the various models.  Could someone do a sanity check on the following?
> 
> I'm looking for a good pair of basshead IEMs to replace my beloved (and now dying) Sony MDR-EX210B's.  (You can still find them on eBay, but they're like $100 now, vs. $30-40 when they were still being made.)  The EX201B's could put out a respectable thump, while still sounding, to me, pretty clear in the other frequencies.
> 
> ...


this is my recommendation for you zs3, zs1 and ates this is the basshead iem from kz, you should check it out.


----------



## bokiboki

if someone is interested on Alli have KZ ZST Colorful+silver cable for 17.90 €, if it is gud deal


----------



## SomeTechNoob

eBay has the silver cable for $4.74 and GearBest has the ZST Colorful for $12.99, which comes out to $17.73 as well.


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> this is my recommendation for you zs3, zs1 and ates this is the basshead iem from kz, you should check it out.


 
  
 OP says he doesn't like over-the-ear models, which all 3 of those are.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> OP says he doesn't like over-the-ear models, which all 3 of those are.


i don't read the op but as soon as he says the basshead im confidence giving my recommendations .


----------



## ezekiel77

meeotch666 said:


> Are there other KZ models I should be looking at?




ED9 and ED3 ate quite bassy, and they're worn straight down. But don't get ED9 if you're treble sensitive.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ezekiel77 said:


> ED9 and ED3 ate quite bassy, and they're worn straight down. But don't get ED9 if you're treble sensitive.




You're talking red or blue ED3c/m/"The Acme" right? The old silver model is pretty light on bass compared to most KZ models.


----------



## ezekiel77

b9scrambler said:


> You're talking red or blue ED3c/m/"The Acme" right? The old silver model is pretty light on bass compared to most KZ models.




Yup, sorry, missed the C. ED3c Acme. Thanks B9.


----------



## actorlife

Make sure you do BI time if you get the ED3 acme. Sounds very boxy out the box. Took 80hrs for a tight SQ IMO. Accoring to doc holliday the ED3 acme is the improvement of the ED3 Perfection(Silver ones).


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> i don't read the op but as soon as he says the basshead im confidence giving my recommendations .




Yes, no doubt you made some helpful basshead recommendations.

However, the guy said he's already confused by all of the choices, and has 2 requirements: 

1. no over-the-ears IEMs
2. something basshead suitable.

A list of only over-the-ear models might confuse the guy more. Just sayin


----------



## B9Scrambler

actorlife said:


> Make sure you do BI time if you get the ED3 acme. Sounds very boxy out the box. Took 80hrs for a tight SQ IMO. Accoring to doc holliday the ED3 acme is the improvement of the ED3 Perfection(Silver ones).




They ED3 and ED3c are completely different earphones and sound nothing alike. While they share a design, even that varies when it comes to materials, weight, and fit and finish.


----------



## actorlife

​


b9scrambler said:


> They ED3 and ED3c are completely different earphones and sound nothing alike.



Yep that's why I said the improvements were added to the acme ED3 according to Doc. I ordered the ED3 Perfection a month ago and have not arrived So I cant compare them, yet. Listening to the ED3 acme as I write this. This EP has some good mids and bass for such a cheapie. Real sounding no effects. Slight soundstage, though not wide. Good departure from overblown effect they put into earphones for years. Get a pair. I'm using the tip from a cheap ebay $1.94 EP(they suck worth for a mod and included 4 tips are so great. One of tips is double flange, yep) and the bass sounds ways better than the included ones. Oh snap just tried the double flange even more Bass.


----------



## MUSICCURE

Just recieved my zst silver cable and tried it on the colorful zst. OOTB, the bass is boomy and the treble feels off. I went back to the original cable and all is well again. I tried some different tips(spiral dots, IT03 large tips). Bass became a little to boomy for me although the IT03 gave a great fit. Eventually just came back to the large zst tips. Awesome sound from the plenue pm2. Nice foward mids, strong center image, yet a good mix of clarity, soundstage, and imaging. I'm surprised that the treble is bothersome for some. The dt990 was way to bright for me. My 2 zst's are bright but not overly so.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yes, no doubt you made some helpful basshead recommendations.
> 
> However, the guy said he's already confused by all of the choices, and has 2 requirements:
> 
> ...


 yes i know but he wants basshead iem, you know kz doesn't have that straight down style basshead type of iem they only have over ear and he said that he wants from kz too so if he wants from kz he have to buy one of those recommendations.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mus1c said:


> yes i know but he wants basshead iem, you know kz doesn't have that straight down style basshead type of iem they only have over ear and he said that he wants from kz too so if he wants from kz he have to buy one of those recommendations.




There is the ED8, but I'm pretty sure those were discontinued. The ED3c is probably the next closest in the lineup as a cable-down bass head option. RX is good too, but I think they're hard to come by now as well


----------



## B9Scrambler

actorlife said:


> ​Yep that's why I said the improvements were added to the acme ED3 according to Doc. I ordered the ED3 Perfection a month ago and have not arrived So I cant compare them, yet. Listening to the ED3 acme as I write this. This EP has some good mids and bass for such a cheapie. Real sounding no effects. Slight soundstage, though not wide. Good departure from overblown effect they put into earphones for years. Get a pair. I'm using the tip from a cheap ebay $1.94 EP(they suck worth for a mod and included 4 tips are so great. One of tips is double flange, yep) and the bass sounds ways better than the included ones. Oh snap just tried the double flange even more Bass.




I've got both  I'm just saying the two models sound so very different it's not really fair to either to say one is an improvement over the other (and I get those weren't your words). ED3 puts it's focus solidly on upper frequencies while the ED3c is more about the low end.


----------



## Slater

mQuote: 





mus1c said:


> yes i know but he wants basshead iem, you know kz doesn't have that straight down style basshead type of iem they only have over ear and he said that he wants from kz too so if he wants from kz he have to buy one of those recommendations.


 
  
 Yeah, good point.
  
 The KZ DT5 was a bombastic bass cannon (and straight-down design), but you cant get them anymore.


----------



## Mus1c

b9scrambler said:


> There is the ED8, but I'm pretty sure those were discontinued. The ED3c is probably the next closest in the lineup as a cable-down bass head option. RX is good too, but I think they're hard to come by now as well


ed3c is closest to basshead but not actually a basshead iem. Ed3c made for all round not for basshead is not gonna give that bass thump on your ears like zs3 does or zs1 btw he says he wants to replace the sony which already bass cannon iem because sony company extra bass which is good. if you give this guy the ed3c he will not appreciate the sound quality because he originally basshead people.


----------



## Shadowsora

Just pulled the trigger on ZST with silver cable, as well some Takstar pro 80 rebrand/clone, got a fiio K1 aaas well. I will live by eating instant noodles for a couple of weeks but it was worth it.


----------



## Mus1c

shadowsora said:


> Just pulled the trigger on ZST with silver cable, as well some Takstar pro 80 rebrand/clone, got a fiio K1 aaas well. I will live by eating instant noodles for a couple of weeks but it was worth it.


i see your in tight budget actually why?, all those thing should be cheap cuz probably it from china apparently you should have enough balance(money) btw.


----------



## Shadowsora

All these costed me about 1/6th of my monthly payment, I got a 4k TV as well this month so yeah I am really tight at this point.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> ed3c is closest to basshead but not actually a basshead iem. Ed3c made for all round not for basshead is not gonna give that bass thump on your ears like zs3 does or zs1 btw he says he wants to replace the sony which already bass cannon iem because sony company extra bass which is good. if you give this guy the ed3c he will not appreciate the sound quality because he originally basshead people.



With those tips I got big bass on the acme ED3. Ya. Also don't forget the starlines do a good job too.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> With those tips I got big bass on the acme ED3. Ya. Also don't forget the starlines do a good job too.


really?? I thought this is not basshead kz and is it comparable bass to zs3 or more equivalent If yes that I'll be shock but I want know the ed3c sound quality too.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> really?? I thought this is not basshead kz and is it comparable bass to zs3 or more equivalent If yes that I'll be shock but I want know the ed3c sound quality too.


 the bass depends on tips used sometimes. Wide tips of rock zircon and starlings. I can't believe my luck with the cheap ear but included nice tips for 1,94. Expensive Now 1.99 hahaha I'll get the link be back.
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/322214705841
Like I said these ear bud are crap. the cable is nice and volume control good for a mod and of course the included tips 4. One of them is double flange and perfect with the ED3 acme. Bass.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> the bass depends on tips used sometimes. Wide tips of rock zircon and starlings. I can't believe my luck with the cheap ear but included nice tips for 1,94. Expensive Now 1.99 hahaha I'll get the link be back.


 ok i guess you can have big bass on small ed3c that depend on tips actually but this bass really does shine on stock tips?.


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> ok i guess you can have big bass on small ed3c that depend on tips actually but this bass really does shine on stock tips?.



Like I said before long 70+ BI sounds boxy. With the included tips you get good bass but with the other tips bigger bass. I could not believe it. Make sure insert safely deep too. Make sure you put tips in all the way on the earphone so tips won't stay stuck in ear. Clean with alcohol before each insertion too. Let dry and Nicer fit.


----------



## Saoshyant

Been meaning to try out a new Ali seller, so finally found my first purchase:  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZST-BT-Combo-Bluetooth-Earphone-with-Upgraded-Cable-for-KZ-ZST-Pro-Hybrid-Hifi-Earphone/2894006_32805872436.html


----------



## feizor

saoshyant said:


> Been meaning to try out a new Ali seller, so finally found my first purchase:  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZST-BT-Combo-Bluetooth-Earphone-with-Upgraded-Cable-for-KZ-ZST-Pro-Hybrid-Hifi-Earphone/2894006_32805872436.html


 Only 88% positive feedback?


----------



## Saoshyant

feizor said:


> Only 88% positive feedback?


 
 8 out of 9 purchases.  You're used to thinking of feedback in the 10,000+ range.  Too small a sample size for an accurate representation.


----------



## actorlife

Hopefully the BT cable will be available for $10-12.


----------



## Vidal

saoshyant said:


> 8 out of 9 purchases.  You're used to thinking of feedback in the 10,000+ range.  Too small a sample size for an accurate representation.


 
  
 And, if you look at the one negative feedback it relates to a MP3 player only having Chinese instructions, the seller's reply stated it was possible to switch the product to English in the menu.


----------



## DeLuX

shadowsora said:


> All these costed me about 1/6th of my monthly payment, I got a 4k TV as well this month so yeah I am really tight at this point.




Love the enthusiasm! Audio should be about sacrifice! Somehow I long for my more humble days... Hope you enjoy the crap out of your new setup


----------



## ahmadairfan

ezekiel77 said:


> Took advantage of the recent AliExpress sale to get these babies for cheap. Can't believe I spent a shade less than $28 for ALL THREE. I've paid more in shipping for some IEMs!
> 
> 
> The manual says 5-minute burn-in so it's time to share some early impressions  :
> ...




I own ED9, and thinking about getting ZST. Could you do a comparison?


----------



## chinmie

ezekiel77 said:


> I'd rather spam-gift my buddies with ATR rather than Monks.


 
  
 I couldn't agree with you more. the monks is good, but the ATR has more value for the money. Earbuds wise, i always recommend the Edifier H185 more than the monks


----------



## Slater

ahmadairfan said:


> I own ED9, and thinking about getting ZST. Could you do a comparison?


 
  
 Which tuning tube do you use with the ED9? The shiny gold one or the dull brass one?
  
 If you use the dull brass one, then you have basically heard what's really close to the ZST.
  
 If you dislike the dull brass one (because it's too bright), and you prefer the shiny gold one more (because of the deeper bass), then get the ZS3 instead of the ZST.
  
 That's my take anyways.


----------



## ezekiel77

ahmadairfan said:


> I own ED9, and thinking about getting ZST. Could you do a comparison?


 
  
 I remember ED9 having a much sharper treble and more boomy bass.
 ZST is better in terms of a more refined sound and a bigger soundstage. Can't really go wrong with it.


----------



## Enn Jott

I never considered myself treble-sensitive, but to me the ZSTs have the most unbearable treble i've ever heard. and i've listened to bright headphones (think ATH-MSR7)... i wonder if something is wrong with the ones i got...
  
 that being said i find the ZSTs not only to be sibilant (on frikatives and on on affricates) but to sound sharp as a knife in general. Does anyone have an idea what tips to use to tame the treble, because i really like the soundstage and comfort and would like to use the ZSTs if the treble is under control?


----------



## rad7

enn jott said:


> I never considered myself treble-sensitive, but to me the ZSTs have the most unbearable treble i've ever heard. and i've listened to bright headphones (think ATH-MSR7)... i wonder if something is wrong with the ones i got...
> 
> that being said i find the ZSTs not only to be sibilant (on frikatives and on on affricates) but to sound sharp as a knife in general. Does anyone have an idea what tips to use to tame the treble, because i really like the soundstage and comfort and would like to use the ZSTs if the treble is under control?


 
 Totally agree! It hurts when I use the ZSTs for an extended period of time. They are very good otherwise. I wonder if some of these units have more treble because of the poor quality control by KZ.  I also got ZS3 & MEMT X5 just because I couldn't bear the harsh treble of ZST. While ZS3 & X5s have a very non-fatiguing sound signature & good bass, they do not have good soundstage and midrange (this especially on the X5), so I am not completely happy with all these 3 IEMs.
  
 I am patiently waiting for my Somic V4 which is supposed to be superior to all these three IEMs.


----------



## Enn Jott

rad7 said:


> Totally agree! It hurts when I use the ZSTs for an extended period of time. They are very good otherwise. I wonder if some of these units have more treble because of the poor quality control by KZ.  I also got ZS3 & MEMT X5 just because I couldn't bear the harsh treble of ZST. While ZS3 & X5s have a very non-fatiguing sound signature & good bass, they do not have good soundstage and midrange (this especially on the X5), so I am not completely happy with all these 3 IEMs.
> 
> I am patiently waiting for my Somic V4 which is supposed to be superior to all these three IEMs.


 

 Let us (me) know how you like the Somic. I've been eyeing these for quite a while and should have ordered them instead of the ZSTs... But i was curious and i do like that IEM look.


----------



## zato23

Another seller who sells the bluetooth zst 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wireless-bluetooth-in-ear-earphone-replaceable-cable-1DD-1BA-hybrid-driver-HI-FI-for-sport-ourdoor/32804758922.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.264.79tpSD

i ordered the cable with mic and i hope it will be good.

PS:Always before i order something from ali i ask seller for discount and i did it in this occasion 
you can try it


----------



## aaDee

rad7 said:


> Totally agree! It hurts when I use the ZSTs for an extended period of time. They are very good otherwise. I wonder if some of these units have more treble because of the poor quality control by KZ.  I also got ZS3 & MEMT X5 just because I couldn't bear the harsh treble of ZST. While ZS3 & X5s have a very non-fatiguing sound signature & good bass, they do not have good soundstage and midrange (this especially on the X5), so I am not completely happy with all these 3 IEMs.
> 
> I am patiently waiting for my Somic V4 which is supposed to be superior to all these three IEMs.


change the tips on X5 with KZ star tips...N let us know how they sound. I personally love X5. They are more musical than ZST. Also soundstage on ZST is bit artificial compared to X5. I'm using Fiio X3ii as my source.


----------



## AplexApple

For those who have the Bluetooth cable. May you leave your opinions on it? How's the sound quality, build quality, connection quality, ect?


----------



## AplexApple

zato23 said:


> Another seller who sells the bluetooth zst
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wireless-bluetooth-in-ear-earphone-replaceable-cable-1DD-1BA-hybrid-driver-HI-FI-for-sport-ourdoor/32804758922.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.264.79tpSD
> 
> ...




Did you receive the discount and how much was the discount?
Really interested in the Bluetooth cable.


----------



## acia

aplexapple said:


> Did you receive the discount and how much was the discount?
> Really interested in the Bluetooth cable.


 
 http://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2336947&extra=&highlight=&page=1


----------



## rad7

enn jott said:


> Let us (me) know how you like the Somic. I've been eyeing these for quite a while and should have ordered them instead of the ZSTs... But i was curious and i do like that IEM look.


 
 Sure. But it might take me about 3 weeks to receive mine. I ordered them from gearbest and sometimes the shipping takes forever. Meanwhile checkout @B9scrambler's review of the Somic V4 here as he also compared them to several IEMs including the ZSTs.


----------



## rad7

aadee said:


> change the tips on X5 with KZ star tips...N let us know how they sound. I personally love X5. They are more musical than ZST. Also soundstage on ZST is bit artificial compared to X5. I'm using Fiio X3ii as my source.


 
 Thanks for the tip, I will do that. I believe I tested them with various tips including the KZ starline tips when I first got them, as the included tips are useless. But I guess I need to use them for a longer period of time before I make any assumptions. 
  
 I do like the X5s & they are very good for specific purposes. They are built well, have very good bass and are fun sounding especially for certain genres. They are my go to iems when I am trying to sleep as they have a very non-fatiguing sound signature & are small and comfortable. But I feel like they are lacking in midrange and do not have a very good soundstage. 
  
 Btw, I use all my IEMs with Cayin N3.


----------



## AplexApple

acia said:


> http://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2336947&extra=&highlight=&page=1




I don't get what's going on there even when it's translated. Mind filling me in?


----------



## acia

aplexapple said:


> I don't get what's going on there even when it's translated. Mind filling me in?


 
zst get it free link
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
  
 zs3
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## AplexApple

acia said:


> zst get it free link
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_533515.html
> 
> ...


 
 How exactly do i get the ZSTs free? Does that cable also work on the ZST?


----------



## Slater

aplexapple said:


> How exactly do i get the ZSTs free? Does that cable also work on the ZST?


 
  
 YOU don't get anything for free.
  
 The link contains a referral code, and when others buy it, the person who originally owns the code gets credit and earns free product.
  
 Many websites have similar programs, including Amazon.
  
 This is actually against Head-Fi policy BTW. That's why posted links to websites (such as Amazon etc) must have all referral information removed.


----------



## ephrank

Can I buy the KZ Bluetooth cable (or other KZ compatible brands) off eBay? It says "item no longer available" on the AliExpress page shared by @zato23


----------



## svil3

rad7 said:


> Sure. But it might take me about 3 weeks to receive mine. I ordered them from gearbest and sometimes the shipping takes forever. Meanwhile checkout @B9scrambler's review of the Somic V4 here as he also compared them to several IEMs including the ZSTs.


 
 I recently got the Somics, also I have the zst, zs3 and a few others KZs(ATE and ED9) for a few months now. My favorite KZs are the ZST and the ZS3 (in that order).
  
 Now that I've been using the Somics V4 for a few days, and after some burn in, I have to say the in fact they're overall (SQ only) superior than the ZST, but actually not by that much,oh and a big little thing (for me), the bass in the Somic v4 is a little bit recessed for my tastes, I already tried a few eartips to get a better seal, wich helped with the lower frequencies, but they still lack some bass (again, for my tastes), this can be solved with a little EQ, but the thing is that the signatures of the zst and zs3 didn't need any EQ to be pleasant for me.


----------



## arn82

Anyone have status updates on the ZSR?


----------



## rad7

svil3 said:


> I recently got the Somics, also I have the zst, zs3 and a few others KZs(ATE and ED9) for a few months now. My favorite KZs are the ZST and the ZS3 (in that order).
> 
> Now that I've been using the Somics V4 for a few days, and after some burn in, I have to say the in fact they're overall (SQ only) superior than the ZST, but actually not by that much,oh and a big little thing (for me), the bass in the Somic v4 is a little bit recessed for my tastes, I already tried a few eartips to get a better seal, wich helped with the lower frequencies, but they still lack some bass (again, for my tastes), this can be solved with a little EQ, but the thing is that the signatures of the zst and zs3 didn't need any EQ to be pleasant for me.


 
 Thank you! Yes, I heard that the Somic V4s are not for bassheads. I am not a basshead, but I do like deep, punchy bass as I listen to a lot of chillout trance, liquid dnb, etc. I hope the EQ would help a little. Bass is one thing that I like with my ZST, ZS3 & especially with the MEMT X5. I guess it is difficult to find a budget IEM around $25 that ticks all the right boxes as far as my preferred sound signature is concerned.


----------



## ahmadairfan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Which tuning tube do you use with the ED9? The shiny gold one or the dull brass one?
> 
> *If you use the dull brass one, then you have basically heard what's really close to the ZST.*
> 
> If you dislike the dull brass one (because it's too bright), and you prefer the shiny gold one more (because of the deeper bass), then get the ZS3 instead of the ZST.


 
 Hard to describe my likings lol. I really like the mids and treble of my ED9, and with the gold filter they do sound very natural (rock music). Bass guitar, drums and vocals sounded just awesome. But the bass on more popular nowadays songs, yes it is boomy (gold filter). I need the bass quality, not quantity. Does ZST have more bass than brass-filtered ED9? And hows the drums sounds on ZS3? Is it just enough to reproduce any parts of the drums?


ezekiel77 said:


> I remember ED9 having a much sharper treble and *more boomy bass*.
> ZST is better in terms of a more refined sound and a bigger soundstage. Can't really go wrong with it.


 
 Does that mean ZST have _tighter _or shaped bass? I like tight sub-bass and a little bass emphasis.


----------



## rendyG

Some experience with metal/rock with KZ/Somics? I had the first Xiaomi Hybrids back then, they could handle fast tracks nicely (probably due to the multiple drivers??), but something was off in the midrange.
I would like to try another dual/triple dfivers  any tips?


----------



## VinceHill24

Just in case anyone might be interested, i talked a little with KZ on QQ earlier today. For the promised 5 drivers ZSR, it seems no any news on it yet and they say they don't have any confirmation regarding the status from their factory/ R&D yet.

However here comes a piece of good news as they told me that about end of this month or earlier next month, they'll be launching a 4 drivers (2DD + 2BA) IEM and the estimated retail pricing at China is set around 199yuan RMB (like less than freaking 30$ ?!). They refused to provide me anymore details like picture or whatsoever technical information besides just telling me the driver configuration will be 2DD + 2BA each side so i say better take my word with a grain of salt.


----------



## ricemanhk

Oh man...the buying cycle begins!  Did they say if it's MMCX or still the 2 pin?  I really don't like their proprietary 2 pin housing design...


----------



## svil3

radek jandl said:


> Some experience with metal/rock with KZ/Somics? I had the first Xiaomi Hybrids back then, they could handle fast tracks nicely (probably due to the multiple drivers??), but something was off in the midrange.
> I would like to try another duals/triples
> 
> 
> ...


 
 90% of my music library is Metal & Rock of all flavors, and I really like how the ZSTs perform in those genres, but with some styles with more bassy beats, like industrial metal or even modern recordings of some bands, the ZS3 are just pure fun to listen, but the ideal sound signature for any music genre is always matter of personal tastes.
  
 About the eartips, well this topic is even more personal (even physiological), I prefer the foam tips and thats what I use with these two models.


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> Oh man...the buying cycle begins!  Did they say if it's MMCX or still the 2 pin?  I really don't like their proprietary 2 pin housing design...


They didn't tell me anything more than that but i think it's definitely gonna be their proprietary 2-pin. I mean in a business perspective, they could sell more of their cables that way so feel it's very likely still their 2-pin. Nothing's confirm anyway, probably another week or 2 to find out.


----------



## Keller1

vincehill24 said:


> Just in case anyone might be interested, i talked a little with KZ on QQ earlier today. For the promised 5 drivers ZSR, it seems no any news on it yet and they say they don't have any confirmation regarding the status from their factory/ R&D yet.
> 
> 
> 
> However here comes a piece of good news as they told me that about end of this month or earlier next month, they'll be launching a 4 drivers (2DD + 2BA) IEM and the estimated retail pricing at China is set around 199yuan RMB (like less than freaking 30$ ?!). They refused to provide me anymore details like picture or whatsoever technical information besides just telling me the driver configuration will be 2DD + 2BA each side so i say better take my word with a grain of salt.



 


End of this month / start of next? Convert from KZ time to real time and we get ... Maybe December?


----------



## rendyG

svil3 said:


> 90% of my music library is Metal & Rock of all flavors, and I really like how the ZSTs perform in those genres, but with some styles with more bassy beats, like industrial metal or even modern recordings of some bands, the ZS3 are just pure fun to listen, but the ideal sound signature for any music genre is always matter of personal tastes.
> 
> About the eartips, well this topic is even more personal (even physiological), I prefer the foam tips and thats what I use with these two models.




Thank you for your impressions, I may try them later.
However I expressed myself badly, by duals /triples I meant number of drivers in earphone  nvm


----------



## SpiderNhan

Having experienced my first MMCX IEM (Magaosi K3 Pro) I'm hoping the new KZ is 2-pin. Whether it's the cable or the ear piece I'm not sure but I get frequent disconnections and spend just as much time fiddling around with the connector as I do trying to listen to music. Either way I'm probably gonna buy it. I've got the KZ bug and there is no cure. Only the temporary relief that comes from ordering more.


----------



## ricemanhk

vincehill24 said:


> They didn't tell me anything more than that but i think it's definitely gonna be their proprietary 2-pin. I mean in a business perspective, they could sell more of their cables that way so feel it's very likely still their 2-pin. Nothing's confirm anyway, probably another week or 2 to find out.


 
 Well their ZS3 and ZST use the same 0.75mm UE pins but the housing is different, so they have different wires even for those 2. I agree with your comment in general, but Chinese OEMs don't always work logically (and at least I HOPE they will change to MMCX).  If they keep the 2-pin format, then at least make it either the UE housing or sennheiser one so it's easier to get replacement cables, e.g. bluetooth ones.  The link shared here before, that uses the UE housing so while it'll fit the ZS3/ZST, it won't be tight.  Reading the HKEPC forum, seems the guy actually got 0.78mm pins so it gives a tight fit to his ZS3 but permanently enlarges the housing.  
  
 Actually if KZ does change to MMCX, they will sell WAY more cables that people will buy for their shures and other IEMs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW I checked their official taobao site, still nothing.  Nor are the new BT headphones LP5 on sale yet.


----------



## smy1

Still having hard time picking either urbanfun or zst....


----------



## To.M

As much as I like ZST, I would pick Urbanfun over them, each time I would have to choose one pair. To my ears, UF are are just technically better in every aspect and I just love them.


----------



## VinceHill24

keller1 said:


> vincehill24 said:
> 
> 
> > Just in case anyone might be interested, i talked a little with KZ on QQ earlier today. For the promised 5 drivers ZSR, it seems no any news on it yet and they say they don't have any confirmation regarding the status from their factory/ R&D yet.
> ...


 Haha, i like this. It's been too long of a wait since last year. Well at least this is not like the case Trinity preorder coz we're not paying anything to wait for it like forever.


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> Well their ZS3 and ZST use the same 0.75mm UE pins but the housing is different, so they have different wires even for those 2. I agree with your comment in general, but Chinese OEMs don't always work logically (and at least I HOPE they will change to MMCX).  If they keep the 2-pin format, then at least make it either the UE housing or sennheiser one so it's easier to get replacement cables, e.g. bluetooth ones.  The link shared here before, that uses the UE housing so while it'll fit the ZS3/ZST, it won't be tight.  Reading the HKEPC forum, seems the guy actually got 0.78mm pins so it gives a tight fit to his ZS3 but permanently enlarges the housing.
> 
> Actually if KZ does change to MMCX, they will sell WAY more cables that people will buy for their shures and other IEMs.
> 
> BTW I checked their official taobao site, still nothing.  Nor are the new BT headphones LP5 on sale yet.


I do agree with you about the cables. I really do hope they will use the more common MMCX connection as well for their future models then it will be easier to seek for aftermarket upgrade cables as well.


----------



## TheVortex

vincehill24 said:


> Just in case anyone might be interested, i talked a little with KZ on QQ earlier today. For the promised 5 drivers ZSR, it seems no any news on it yet and they say they don't have any confirmation regarding the status from their factory/ R&D yet.
> 
> However here comes a piece of good news as they told me that about end of this month or earlier next month, they'll be launching a 4 drivers (2DD + 2BA) IEM and the estimated retail pricing at China is set around 199yuan RMB (like less than freaking 30$ ?!). They refused to provide me anymore details like picture or whatsoever technical information besides just telling me the driver configuration will be 2DD + 2BA each side so i say better take my word with a grain of salt.


 
  
 Thanks for updating us. If there new 4 driver is under 30$ I would definataly jump on it but there QC issues doesn't seem to be the best.


----------



## rad7

svil3 said:


> 90% of my music library is Metal & Rock of all flavors, and I really like how the ZSTs perform in those genres, but with some styles with more bassy beats, like industrial metal or even modern recordings of some bands, the ZS3 are just pure fun to listen, but the ideal sound signature for any music genre is always matter of personal tastes.
> 
> About the eartips, well this topic is even more personal (even physiological), I prefer the foam tips and thats what I use with these two models.


 
 Can you suggest some decent and economical foam tips that work with IEMs like ZSTs, ZS3, Somic V4s, etc.? I've never owned foam tips and since I am having a hard time finding decent tips for these IEMs, I want to try them now.


----------



## SpiderNhan

rad7 said:


> Can you suggest some decent and economical foam tips that work with IEMs like ZSTs, ZS3, Somic V4s, etc.? I've never owned foam tips and since I am having a hard time finding decent tips for these IEMs, I want to try them now.



I just received some KZ foam tips, 5mm, and they work quite well. Can't speak about longevity as I just got them, but they're comfortable and sound good. The Znari tips on Amazon are almost as good as Comply and you get 5 pairs for less than what Comply charges for 3.


----------



## svil3

rad7 said:


> Can you suggest some decent and economical foam tips that work with IEMs like ZSTs, ZS3, Somic V4s, etc.? I've never owned foam tips and since I am having a hard time finding decent tips for these IEMs, I want to try them now.


 
  
  


spidernhan said:


> I just received some KZ foam tips, 5mm, and they work quite well. Can't speak about longevity as I just got them, but they're comfortable and sound good. The Znari tips on Amazon are almost as good as Comply and you get 5 pairs for less than what Comply charges for 3.


 
 Indeed, these are good option, but the kz foam tips are kinda small (even the largest ones) but if you've got a narrow ear canal, I think it'll be fine


----------



## actorlife

Which pair of KZ's have comply? I know there is a pair that includes them. Edit Its the KZ ATE.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Which pair of KZ's have comply? I know there is a pair that includes them. Edit Its the KZ ATE.


 
  
 I couldn't even call them Complys either. Instead of a memory foam, they're like this slippery glossy gel with a foam-like consistency. Stiffer & more solid than memory foam. You would think they would be the best of both worlds (like a silicone memory foam), but I don't like them.


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> Oh man...the buying cycle begins!  Did they say if it's MMCX or still the 2 pin?  I really don't like their proprietary 2 pin housing design...


 
  
 MMCX has a lot of reliability problems.


----------



## DeLuX

spidernhan said:


> Having experienced my first MMCX IEM (Magaosi K3 Pro) I'm hoping the new KZ is 2-pin. Whether it's the cable or the ear piece I'm not sure but I get frequent disconnections and spend just as much time fiddling around with the connector as I do trying to listen to music. Either way I'm probably gonna buy it. *I've got the KZ bug and there is no cure. Only the temporary relief that comes from ordering more.
> *


*


What he said! *


----------



## actorlife

slaterlovesspam said:


> I couldn't even call them Complys either. Instead of a memory foam, they're like this slippery glossy gel with a foam-like consistency. Stiffer & more solid than memory foam. You would think they would be the best of both worlds (like a silicone memory foam), but I don't like them.


 
 I'll have to look for them and see how I like em. I tried comply from other EP I owned and never liked them. The only tips I really liked were those Sony Hybrids tip. I even bought the cheaper knockoffs on ebay and they were just as good IMO.


----------



## rad7

svil3 said:


> Indeed, these are good option, but the kz foam tips are kinda small (even the largest ones) but if you've got a narrow ear canal, I think it'll be fine


 
 Thank you! I don't have narrow ear canals and always use medium or large tips. So, I might try the large Znari tips.


----------



## actorlife

rad7 said:


> Thank you! I don't have narrow ear canals and always use medium or large tips. So, I might try the large Znari tips.


 
 I just tried the KZ ATE Comply ones they fit me good. WHAT? I really like them walked around and tight fit. Did not fall off. I use Medium and sometimes rarely large for a tighter fit. Hahaha can't believe I like them. The bass, separation and voice clarity is really good too. I may get those Znari one day for NOW these will do.


----------



## thebluebulk

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before so bare with me. The other night I was listening to my KZ-ZST's and noticed a slightly tubular sound in the higher frequencies. I tried a little trick I used on my other iems. I just pushed the tip down as far as it would go bringing the grill closer to the surface. This also made them more comfortable imo. It also seemed to help with the tubular sound but that might just be all in my head


----------



## ricemanhk

Yeah, I concur the KZ foam tips are not great, the outside is glossy, and there's no plastic tube inside the bore which means they tend to slip off the IEM and get stuck in your ear easily. 
There are plenty of "comply lookalike" foam tips at much lower price, those work much better.


----------



## SpiderNhan

These are the KZ foam tips I ordered. They do have a plastic nozzle and so far have performed as well as my Comply knockoffs.

4Pairs(8pcs) KZ Noise Isolating Memory Foam C sets 3mm 5mm Comply T100 T400 Ear Tips For In Ear Headphones Earbud Free Shipping
 http://s.aliexpress.com/3uQzEzMJ 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## VinceHill24

Asked KZ about the connection type earlier today and they send me this.


----------



## Keller1

vincehill24 said:


> Asked KZ about the connection type earlier today and they send me this.


 
 THE HYPE. IT CANNOT BE CONTAINED.

 Edit : Hoping for some color options.
 Also, it's missing the screws. The screws are a core part of the aesthetic.


----------



## WilliamCruz

ive owned kz ate and kz zs3, i found both of them too bassy, kz zs3 is nice but too much bass quantity. which kz earphone should i get?? prefer warm sound sig.


----------



## actorlife

Turn down the bass on your eq or try the ATR or ED9(bronze filter).


----------



## Keller1

actorlife said:


> Turn down the bass on your eq or try the ATR or ED9(bronze filter).


 
 ATR is bassier than ATE tho.


----------



## actorlife

I'll relisten but I thought it was neautral. Could also try the ED3 (silver one) not acme.


----------



## zozito

Just received zst's...simply amazing. Also having zs3's. Just incredible how much I got for so little amount of money.

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 4 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## SomeTechNoob

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> ive owned kz ate and kz zs3, i found both of them too bassy, kz zs3 is nice but too much bass quantity. which kz earphone should i get?? prefer warm sound sig.




Probably ZSTs


----------



## CoiL

> enn jott said:
> 
> 
> > I never considered myself treble-sensitive, but to me the ZSTs have the most unbearable treble i've ever heard. and i've listened to bright headphones (think ATH-MSR7)... i wonder if something is wrong with the ones i got...
> ...


 

 Try using Auvio small silicone tips with red inner bore. It helps littlebit. But still, while I think ZST is most sonically capable KZ IEM, it has slight spike in highs which makes them uncomfortable for long listening sessions and causes fatigue.
 I will try some modding tricks soon with ZST and give some feedback if I accomplish.
  
 Otherwise, personally I think best KZ IEM for long listening and musicality/dynamics is 5th gen KZ ATE.
  
  


keller1 said:


> actorlife said:
> 
> 
> > Turn down the bass on your eq or try the ATR or ED9(bronze filter).
> ...


 

 Depends on which gen ATE? 5th Gen ATE has about same bass quantity as ATR but less detailed and smooth. ATE-S should have little more bass as ATE and ATR according to some impressions but You never know if it is from QC or different iterations.


----------



## VinceHill24

keller1 said:


> THE HYPE. IT CANNOT BE CONTAINED.
> 
> 
> Edit : Hoping for some color options.
> ...


Haha it's gonna be too obvious if the screw is there. Perhaps the design is patented already by CA ? Not very sure how the actual product will look coz by the selling price they've disclosed to me i'm afraid whether will it just be some plastic material instead of real metal alloy. Let's hope not


----------



## Keller1

vincehill24 said:


> Haha it's gonna be too obvious if the screw is there. Perhaps the design is patented already by CA ? Not very sure how the actual product will look coz by the selling price they've disclosed to me i'm afraid whether will it just be some plastic material instead of real metal alloy. Let's hope not


 
 The screws add a bit more flavour to the already very technical looking bud, but at that price i don't think i can be salty for it not having them. 
  
 Im thinking it'll be metal. making a shell like that plastic and then coating it in a metal-looking paint isnt something they've done before - also they do have some other metal earphones like the RX or ED9 that are still sub $10.


----------



## Slater

vincehill24 said:


> Asked KZ about the connection type earlier today and they send me this.


 
 Man that is ugly as all get out. Unless they offer it in clear, that's 1 KZ I won't be owning regardless of how good it sounds.
  
 All it needs is some stick-on bling rhinestones to win the prize


----------



## Slater

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> ive owned kz ate and kz zs3, i found both of them too bassy, kz zs3 is nice but too much bass quantity. which kz earphone should i get?? prefer warm sound sig.


 
  
 I would try the HDS1 or HDS3 if warm is what you're after.
  
 Or ED9 with dull brass filter (but be warned it's incredibly bright if that's your thing).


----------



## Keller1

slaterlovesspam said:


> I would try the HDS1 or HDS3 if warm is what you're after.
> 
> Or ED9 with dull brass filter (but be warned it's incredibly bright if that's your thing).


 

 It really does look like a cheap knockoff the real thing - It's partly due to the screws and partly due to the shot and color but as it is right now it's missing the mark.


----------



## Podster

slaterlovesspam said:


> Man that is ugly as all get out. Unless they offer it in clear, that's 1 KZ I won't be owning regardless of how good it sounds.
> 
> All it needs is some stick-on bling rhinestones to win the prize


 






 ugly, you do realize you just shoved a giant knife in the hearts of countless CA owners!
  
 You want ugly, this right here is ugly and what's crazy is it actually sounds worse than it looks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 If you really really hate someone just give them a pair of these babies


----------



## Slater

podster said:


> ugly, you do realize you just shoved a giant knife in the hearts of countless CA owners!


 
  
 No insult intended to CA owners - the real deal are sexy as heck.
  
 The KZ, being plastic with no bolts, reminds me of a primitive stone tool or flint arrowhead, painted with glittery spray paint.
  

  


podster said:


> You want ugly, this right here is ugly and what's crazy is it actually sounds worse than it looks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree - those are REALLY bad.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> No insult intended to CA owners - the real deal are sexy as heck.
> 
> The KZ, being plastic with no bolts, reminds me of a primitive stone tool or flint arrowhead, painted with glittery spray paint.


 
  
 I think they look pretty good, just not a fan of the color choice. That design seems like it would be better suited to darker colors; black, blood red, dark purple, etc. 
  
 Regardless of what they look like, I'll be scooping up a set once they're available. Fingers crossed they avoid the QC issues first experienced with the ZS3 and ZST when they were initially released.


----------



## actorlife

The blacks one look ok. With a faster mod for sure.


----------



## ephrank

Yay, my ZS3, ZST finally arrived from GearBest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Right now, I'm listening to the ZS3 with New Bee red/pink foam tips (also from GB) and KZ silver cables (from eBay)
  
  
 Driving them with Chord Mojo, these ZS3 are awesome, 2 steps up from Xiaomi Hybrid! Xiaomi's bass become bloated, droning out mids when driving with low impedance amp. No such problem with the ZS3.
  
 They worth every penny!


----------



## Slater

ephrank said:


> Yay, my ZS3, ZST finally arrived from GearBest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, ZS3 is definitely one of the cream of the cream KZs.


----------



## ephrank

Based on my brief time with the ZST, ZS3, I'm boarding the hype train. Can't wait to buy ZSR PRO once it's released


----------



## ustinj

keller1 said:


> It really does look like a cheap knockoff the real thing


 
 Because it is 
  
 Either way, happy owner of a CA iem and I am really interested in these. I wonder how they will sound. If it's under $99 $50 I might bite.


----------



## ricemanhk

I don't think that's the real picture of the 2DD + 2BA.  The plug is the one from ZS3 (even has the slanted rounded edge).  I guess they just want to tell you it's a 2 pin housing like ZS3/ZST.  But here's hoping they use a UE type housing to provide more compatibility.
  
 But if that's the real thing, I think it looks ok, altho I'm not a fan of that color either.  Oh well, as long as it sounds good...!


----------



## ezekiel77

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> ive owned kz ate and kz zs3, i found both of them too bassy, kz zs3 is nice but too much bass quantity. which kz earphone should i get?? prefer warm sound sig.


 
  
 +1 ZST. Also ATR is very good.


----------



## Mus1c

vincehill24 said:


> Asked KZ about the connection type earlier today and they send me this.


 is that the new iem.


----------



## robervaul

vincehill24 said:


> Asked KZ about the connection type earlier today and they send me this.



I prefer these.


----------



## actorlife

Photoshop or real? Don't remember seeing that model must be discontinued.


----------



## Keller1

actorlife said:


> Photoshop or real? Don't remember seeing that model must be discontinued.


 
 It's an audio technica something e70 with a KZ cable. They might be releasing a new wave of IEMs with both being real.
 also where are you guys getting those images from? KZ QQ Directly?


----------



## robervaul

keller1 said:


> It's an audio technica something e70 with a KZ cable. They might be releasing a new wave of IEMs with both being real.
> also where are you guys getting those images from? KZ QQ Directly?




Yep


----------



## acia

ephrank said:


> Yay, my ZS3, ZST finally arrived from GearBest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 mojo with kz?  won't it be a waste?


----------



## KingOfThorns

A question: how are ZST compare to ZS3, especially in the bass department? I have a Presonus HD7 (Superlux 681 rebrand) hooked onto a cheapo SMSL SD-793II DAC/amp and I really like the bass on those. Which one of the two KZs match it? Also, the treble on Presonus/681 is too damn piercing for my taste, so I'd prefer the ones with more tamed highs...some comments here say that ZSTs can get plenty bright?

Just to add, I mostly listen to metal and rock but other genres too, so I don't mind a bit of bass (not the basshead levels, tho, I like it fast and tight). I'll probably get one of the DAPs from Benjie's lineup so I'm looking for some sub-30$ IEMs to pair it with...


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Photoshop or real? Don't remember seeing that model must be discontinued.


I've seen this iem before it's the campfire iem andromeda but kz copy cat the iem to be the latest zsr.


----------



## Shadowsora

2DD+2BA Under 30$? I also like the design, kinda.
 Damn KZ will sell those like hotcakes, fingers crossed for something decent!


----------



## actorlife

If anyone is interested there is 1 pair of Kz Grey cable for the ZSTs on eBay for less than 5 bucks. I ordered one cause it was so cheap. These were going for about 10 bucks each. Hurry. Hahaha


----------



## actorlife

mus1c said:


> I've seen this iem before it's the campfire iem andromeda but kz copy cat the iem to be the latest zsr.


 Those are gonna sell alot. I don't mind the design as long as the SQ is good.


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> Those are gonna sell alot. I don't mind the design as long as the SQ is good.


i hope so.


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> I've seen this iem before it's the campfire iem andromeda but kz copy cat the iem to be the latest zsr.


 
  
 Yup. And many users complain about the fitment of the Andromeda due to the sharp corners, which is why I'm not sure why KZ decided to copy it vs a more natural/organic shaped IEM. I mean, is the emphasis on the visual design or the sound (performance). Classic form vs function argument.
  
 As they proved with the HDS2, flattery isn't always the sincerest form of compliment. The HDS2 was a blatant copy of the Yamaha EPH100, but the HDS2 sounded like a steaming pile of poo compared to the Yamaha.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yup. And many users complain about the fitment of the Andromeda due to the sharp corners, which is why I'm not sure why KZ decided to copy it vs a more natural/organic shaped IEM. I mean, is the emphasis on the visual design or the sound (performance). Classic form vs function argument.
> 
> As they proved with the HDS2, flattery isn't always the sincerest form of compliment. The HDS2 was a blatant copy of the Yamaha EPH100, but the HDS2 sounded like a steaming pile of poo compared to the Yamaha.


i need they focus on sound and comfort not the design but they must invented their on design not like copy cat stuff like they did to zs3 shape similar to the stage driver iem it hurt the ears alot and I think they ran out of idea thinking about the shape and started to copy want they see nice and premium feel. Lastly i hope the material they are using on the newest iem will be all metal design and not plastic anymore if they want to copy they need to copy perfectly match to the andromeda and the sound too.


----------



## Mus1c

mus1c said:


> i need they focus on sound and comfort not the design but i think they must invented their on design not like copy cat stuff like they did to zs3 shape similar to the stage driver iem it hurt the ears alot and I think they ran out of idea thinking about the shape and started to copy want they see nice and premium feel. Lastly i hope the material they are using on the newest iem will be all metal design and not plastic anymore if they want to copy they need to copy perfectly match to the andromeda and the sound too.


 *just ignore it double quote mistake*


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> i need they focus on sound and comfort not the design but they must invented their on design not like copy cat stuff like they did to zs3 shape similar to the stage driver iem it hurt the ears alot and I think they ran out of idea thinking about the shape and started to copy want they see nice and premium feel. Lastly i hope the material they are using on the newest iem will be all metal design and not plastic anymore if they want to copy they need to copy perfectly match to the andromeda and the sound too.


 
  
 Agreed.
  
 I don't think it's going to be metal for $30 though.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I don't think it's going to be metal for $30 though.


dammit the price has been official how do you know the price?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The ZS3 is a copied shell from a German manufacturer if memory recalls correctly, but I can't remember the exact company.


----------



## Slater

mus1c said:


> dammit the price has been official how do you know the price?


 
  
 Someone mentioned it a few days ago.
  
 They were chatting with KZ.
  
 Actually, I checked and it's LESS than $30
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/698148/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread/17205#post_13435947


----------



## WilliamCruz

just ordered the kzhds3


----------



## khighly

svil3 said:


> 90% of my music library is Metal & Rock of all flavors, and I really like how the ZSTs perform in those genres, but with some styles with more bassy beats, like industrial metal or even modern recordings of some bands, the ZS3 are just pure fun to listen, but the ideal sound signature for any music genre is always matter of personal tastes.
> 
> About the eartips, well this topic is even more personal (even physiological), I prefer the foam tips and thats what I use with these two models.




ZST's definitely have their strong genres. I find EDM to be a very poor performer on the (ridicukous highs, but I still don't have a better IEM for my regular Classic Rock/Rock. If you listen to the ZST's for a few days, the mids come out and the highs tone down a bit with your "brain burn in". They really are wonderful, but they have their strong genres.

Going from Tennmak Pro breaking after using it exclusively for the past 2 months, I picked the ZST's back up and indeed it was harsh highs. After about 2 days of using them, they turned into wonderful IEM's.

Tried the ATR's for awhile after my tennmaks broke for a more warm sound, they're just not great at all, between 3 pairs. They're missing important mids, they lack bass extension, they are missing high extension. They do have a good soundstage, but the signature is not great. For $4, they're a steal, but they're just...meh.


----------



## Mus1c

sometechnoob said:


> The ZS3 is a copied shell from a German manufacturer if memory recalls correctly, but I can't remember the exact company.


 stagedriver iem and ibasso it30.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Someone mentioned it a few days ago.
> 
> They were chatting with KZ.
> 
> ...


that is insane less than 30$ but how? even 1dd+1ba is almost cost expensive but 2dd+2ba is 30$? just wow. I mean kz is whole other brand that sell expensive stuff cheap that will break the market with cost of bag of chips.


----------



## Vidal

Rather than working on hybrids I would prefer for KZ to build a higher quality dynamic.
  
 Something with better clarity and soundstage than their current range.


----------



## ustinj

mus1c said:


> stagedriver iem and ibasso it30.




It03 is its own design afaik. The zs3 is indeed a clone of the stage diver shell, the it03 is quite a bit different. It03 doesn't fit very well for me, zs3 fits near perfectly. It03 has much sharper ridges and is not as secure. It sits shallower.


----------



## toddy0191

kingofthorns said:


> A question: how are ZST compare to ZS3, especially in the bass department? I have a Presonus HD7 (Superlux 681 rebrand) hooked onto a cheapo SMSL SD-793II DAC/amp and I really like the bass on those. Which one of the two KZs match it? Also, the treble on Presonus/681 is too damn piercing for my taste, so I'd prefer the ones with more tamed highs...some comments here say that ZSTs can get plenty bright?
> 
> Just to add, I mostly listen to metal and rock but other genres too, so I don't mind a bit of bass (not the basshead levels, tho, I like it fast and tight). I'll probably get one of the DAPs from Benjie's lineup so I'm looking for some sub-30$ IEMs to pair it with...




My first thoughts when I listened to the ZSTs were that they were like an iem version of my 681s so if your looking for smoother treble then go for the ZS3s, which are also bassier.


----------



## KingOfThorns

khighly said:


> ZST's definitely have their strong genres. I find EDM to be a very poor performer on the (ridicukous highs, but I still don't have a better IEM for my regular Classic Rock/Rock. If you listen to the ZST's for a few days, the mids come out and the highs tone down a bit with your "brain burn in". They really are wonderful, but they have their strong genres.
> 
> Going from Tennmak Pro breaking after using it exclusively for the past 2 months, I picked the ZST's back up and indeed it was harsh highs. After about 2 days of using them, they turned into wonderful IEM's.
> 
> Tried the ATR's for awhile after my tennmaks broke for a more warm sound, they're just not great at all, between 3 pairs. They're missing important mids, they lack bass extension, they are missing high extension. They do have a good soundstage, but the signature is not great. For $4, they're a steal, but they're just...meh.


 
  
 How is Tennmak Pro compared to ZST?
  


toddy0191 said:


> My first thoughts when I listened to the ZSTs were that they were like an iem version of my 681s so if your looking for smoother treble then go for the ZS3s, which are also bassier.


 
  
 Thanks for your reply. I would prefer a less harsh treble...
 Anyway, I just ordered ZS3 and ATR from Gearbest, it would be a shame not to try them for that price ($9 + $5)...


----------



## Mus1c

ustinj said:


> It03 is its own design afaik. The zs3 is indeed a clone of the stage diver shell, the it03 is quite a bit different. It03 doesn't fit very well for me, zs3 fits near perfectly. It03 has much sharper ridges and is not as secure. It sits shallower.


 ok the it30 i just looked from picture is quite look alike zs3 shape from far so i describe it here.


----------



## VinceHill24

vidal said:


> Rather than working on hybrids I would prefer for KZ to build a higher quality dynamic.
> 
> Something with better clarity and soundstage than their current range.


I very much agree with this having heard the TFZ Exclusive King briefly which i just got today. Instead of including more and more drivers in IEM, a well-tuned single dynamic driver IEM is often better or much more natural / linear sounding. It's actually harder to do a good dynamic driver IEM as it plays a lot with the acoustic between drivers & the whole sound chamber it sits in while it's easier to do simple crossover between different dynamic & BA drivers which kinda explains the trends in Chinese Audio nowadays. The technology in hybrid & crossovers are probably much more matured there in China too.


----------



## jant71

vincehill24 said:


> Just in case anyone might be interested, i talked a little with KZ on QQ earlier today. For the promised 5 drivers ZSR, it seems no any news on it yet and they say they don't have any confirmation regarding the status from their factory/ R&D yet.
> 
> However here comes a piece of good news as they told me that about end of this month or earlier next month, they'll be launching a 4 drivers (2DD + 2BA) IEM and the estimated retail pricing at China is set around 199yuan RMB (like less than freaking 30$ ?!). They refused to provide me anymore details like picture or whatsoever technical information besides just telling me the driver configuration will be 2DD + 2BA each side so i say better take my word with a grain of salt.


 
 What do you mean refused to send you a picture? Does that blue one not say "four drivers" right on it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 Perhaps we still don't have a picture of the ZSR yet.


----------



## VinceHill24

jant71 said:


> What do you mean refused to send you a picture? Does that blue one not say "four drivers" right on it?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps we still don't have a picture of the ZSR yet.


Haha nothing's confirmed in fact. They sent me this picture in response to my questions on the connection type only and i believe i didn't say this is the new KZ 4 drivers. Well, it's not gonna be too long of a wait to find out so let's just be patience. The hype though


----------



## Saoshyant

vidal said:


> Rather than working on hybrids I would prefer for KZ to build a higher quality dynamic.
> 
> Something with better clarity and soundstage than their current range.


 
  
 I'm fine with either as long as it's good.  It'll be interesting to see what they can do.


----------



## jant71

No, I said it! Blame me  Not far fetched though. They may have let it slip there though things change of course. Possibly they use nearly the same housing. One in plastic for the cheaper four driver one and metal for the ZSR. We'll know in about a month 


vincehill24 said:


> Haha nothing's confirmed in fact. They sent me this picture in response to my questions on the connection type only and i believe i didn't say this is the new KZ 4 drivers. Well, it's not gonna be too long of a wait to find out so let's just be patience. The hype though


----------



## Slater

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> just ordered the kzhds3


 
  
 Yeah, HDS3 is definitely underrated. It's small, comfortable to wear, built well, and sounds great.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, HDS3 is definitely underrated. It's small, comfortable to wear, built well, and sounds great.




On release they had a ton of QC issues. Killed any excitement for them right away.


----------



## Mus1c

Im so hype about the zsr coming soon.i hope that 2dd will have bass heavy and 2ba will be detail and more accurate representative on sound and other thing i really hope that the first batch of this iem will be not defective or have faulty issues with it.


----------



## WilliamCruz

mus1c said:


> Im so hype about the zsr coming soon.i hope that 2dd will have bass heavy and 2ba will be detail and more accurate representative on sound and other thing i really hope that the first batch of this iem will be not defective or have faulty issues with it.




Yeah.. they have enough bassy iems


----------



## Slater

vidal said:


> Rather than working on hybrids I would prefer for KZ to build a higher quality dynamic.
> 
> Something with better clarity and soundstage than their current range.


 
  
 I couldn't agree more. I'm not sold on the BA train.
  
 Dual dynamics with a proper crossover in the right shell is a hard combination to beat.


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> On release they had a ton of QC issues. Killed any excitement for them right away.


 
  
 I wasn't aware of that. I have 2 pairs & both work great.
  
 What sort of issues did they have with them? The typical KZ channel imbalance QC issues?


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> I wasn't aware of that. I have 2 pairs & both work great.
> 
> What sort of issues did they have with them? The typical KZ channel imbalance QC issues?


 
  
 Don't recall exactly. You can find them if you feel like diving back into the deep depths of the thread, lol


----------



## actorlife

What is the difference Btwn the KZ HDS1 and KZ HDS3. Are those 3 grills open or closed?


----------



## Slater

b9scrambler said:


> Don't recall exactly. You can find them if you feel like diving back into the deep depths of the thread, lol


 
  
 Haha, no thanks - just curious that's all.
  
 My 2 pairs work great, and that's all that ultimately matters.


----------



## VinceHill24

jant71 said:


> No, I said it! Blame me  Not far fetched though. They may have let it slip there though things change of course. Possibly they use nearly the same housing. One in plastic for the cheaper four driver one and metal for the ZSR. We'll know in about a month


You made a point there. This sounds very likely as i feel kinda impossible for a metal shell housing 4 drivers IEM to cost 199yuan only. But then again it's KZ, they're like the big name when it comes to price-performance. Just like the Xiaomi in smartphones, maybe the KZ too will turn the impossible into possible. Let's hope for it haha


----------



## SomeTechNoob

You guys overestimate the production cost of these things haha.


----------



## fuzun

Is KZ ATR an upgrade to ATE or ATE-S ?


----------



## Brian Coffey

fuzun said:


> Is KZ ATR an upgrade to ATE or ATE-S ?


 
 I would say ATE but that's debatable .


----------



## CoiL

vincehill24 said:


> vidal said:
> 
> 
> > Rather than working on hybrids I would prefer for KZ to build a higher quality dynamic.
> ...


 
 Is it worth getting when Magaosi K3 is close price range with very good reviews all over?
  


slaterlovesspam said:


> I couldn't agree more. I'm not sold on the BA train.
> 
> *Dual dynamics with a proper crossover in the right shell* is a hard combination to beat.


 
 To what IEM are You referring to?


----------



## Slater

coil said:


> To what IEM are You referring to?


 
  
 Not any one IEM in particular, but with a well executed crossover there's fine control over the frequencies.
  
 Take the KZ ZS1 for example. 2 different sized DD, each with their own specific properties, all tied together with a crossover. I'm not saying the ZS1 is the 'ultimate' by any means - it was tuned the way it was by design. I'm just using it as an example of what I think was a good design configuration. With higher end drivers and a better shell, that setup could destroy these cookie cutter 'cram as many BAs as possible and hope for the best' hybrid setups.
  
 I think the big revolution is going to come when graphene drivers become perfected & commonplace.


----------



## feizor

coil said:


> Is it worth getting when Magaosi K3 is close price range with very good reviews all over?
> 
> To what IEM are You referring to?




There are users experiencing quality control issues with the latest batch of magaosi k3 pros. Lots of discussion is happening on the K3 thread. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, hopefully it doesn't suffer from the issues people have been posting about.


----------



## khighly

kingofthorns said:


> How is Tennmak Pro compared to ZST?


 
  
 Completely different. Tennmak Pro is very warm, but a very good IEM. Easy on the ears with a good sound signature. No soundstage though. I preferred them to every KZ I have until they broke. I don't recommend them because of the QC. Both of my pairs are broken after 1 month, and it's at the cable end.


----------



## khighly

sometechnoob said:


> You guys overestimate the production cost of these things haha.


 

 Wouldn't doubt if the top line of Noble audio products costs about $120 to make. The rest is all marketing to people who think changing unshielded cables makes a difference, and that burn in actually exists.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Wouldn't doubt if the top line of Noble audio products costs about $120 to make. The rest is all marketing to people who think changing unshielded cables makes a difference, and that burn in actually exists.


 
  
 haha


----------



## ustinj

vincehill24 said:


> I very much agree with this having heard the TFZ Exclusive King briefly which i just got today. Instead of including more and more drivers in IEM, a well-tuned single dynamic driver IEM is often better or much more natural / linear sounding. It's actually harder to do a good dynamic driver IEM as it plays a lot with the acoustic between drivers & the whole sound chamber it sits in while it's easier to do simple crossover between different dynamic & BA drivers which kinda explains the trends in Chinese Audio nowadays. The technology in hybrid & crossovers are probably much more matured there in China too.


 
 Please tell me more about the TFZ King -- I am a huge fan of the TFZ Series 5 (big shill for that one, spread a lot of hype). TFZ won't reply to my emails on what the sound sig is like, so what is your opinion on it?


----------



## VinceHill24

ustinj said:


> Please tell me more about the TFZ King -- I am a huge fan of the TFZ Series 5 (big shill for that one, spread a lot of hype). TFZ won't reply to my emails on what the sound sig is like, so what is your opinion on it?




Quoting my brief impression from the Chinese brand thread. YMMV.



vincehill24 said:


> 70$ at Massdrop ?! It's a really good deal that you won't wanna miss. They're really worth every price i paid for. I've spent pretty much a whole day with this since i got it earlier today. Just some brief impressions, they're very lean sounding with very good resolution overall. They're very well balanced imo and i would say quite close to being neutral. Their highs are bright but not overly so. They're no where to the point of edgy or harsh instead they're smooth and airy with great extension (i believe the wide frequency response 5hz - 40kHz accounts for that airy feel).
> 
> Its bass is what i like the most. They're in no way recessed like what some Taobao review has mentioned. The amount of bass is just right and it's also deep with ample of subbass to complement the midbass. Bass notes have good speed, they're fast, tight and punchy as if it's coming out from a BA. Midrange sounds clear and natural although can come across as a bit thin. Upper midrange have better body and a fuller sound with female vocals sounding lush and clear though not as much being emphasised when compared to Magaosi K3 Pro, just smooth and clear.
> 
> ...


----------



## VinceHill24

coil said:


> Is it worth getting when Magaosi K3 is close price range with very good reviews all over?
> 
> To what IEM are You referring to?


To me, no doubt it's worth getting despite Magaosi K3 Pro is around the same price range. It just strikes my preference so well that i had neglected all of my other IEM for the past day (previously i would reach out to my K3 Pro almost everyday). New toy syndrome ?? very very likely because i don't regard myself having experienced ears nor do i have good critical listening skills as compared to some veteran reviewers here, but it's the 1st time i'm that obsessed. 

The only downside will be the design as there's no detachable cable design on this and because it's heavy as well so i gotta make sure i take very good care of it with the handling and storage so that it will last. TFZ could've done better with their warranty though, 1 year is just too soon imo.


----------



## gemmoglock

vincehill24 said:


> Quoting my brief impression from the Chinese brand thread. YMMV.


 
 Sounds good! Quite miffed I can't try it as I spent 60USD recently on the Brainwavz B100.
  
 No time to do a review but after some time to let it settle in and for me to get used, those who don't want too much DD bass should seriously consider the Brainwavz B100. Same as the head-fi reviews, I find it quite complete for a single BA with reasonable frequency extension. The instrument spacing is more distinct than my KZ ZS3, slightly better than ATR while refinement and detail response is better.
  
 Just my brief thoughts, hope it helps!


----------



## Mus1c

Has anyone have tried the kinera BD005?.


----------



## To.M

mus1c said:


> Has anyone have tried the kinera BD005?.





http://www.head-fi.org/t/824627/my-first-imprsssion-in-kinera-ba05/0_30


----------



## mrlefteris

anyone can confirm that the ZSTs tips are 5mm in size and compatible with t500 foam tips?


----------



## Envinite

mrlefteris said:


> anyone can confirm that the ZSTs tips are 5mm in size and compatible with t500 foam tips?


 
  
 ZST's tube diameter is around 5.56 mm, so it should fit nicely using tips with hole around 5mm, checked with calipers.
  
  
 On another note, anyone knows how to open up the KZ ZST case? I think I received the first batch (the carbon one) with QC problem so the bass sounds slightly lacking on the left side, probably the armature covering it a lil bit. There seems to be glue around insides of the case, and I don't want to mess this one like I did with my ZS3.


----------



## Slater

envinite said:


> ZST's tube diameter is around 5.56 mm, so it should fit nicely using tips with hole around 5mm, checked with calipers.
> 
> 
> On another note, anyone knows how to open up the KZ ZST case? I think I received the first batch (the carbon one) with QC problem so the bass sounds slightly lacking on the left side, probably the armature covering it a lil bit. There seems to be glue around insides of the case, and I don't want to mess this one like I did with my ZS3.


 
  
 You mean open the BACK of the case (ie the carbon part), or the FRONT of the case (where the BA driver would be located (generally right under the mesh in the nozzle)?


----------



## Envinite

slaterlovesspam said:


> You mean open the BACK of the case (ie the carbon part), or the FRONT of the case (where the BA driver would be located (generally right under the mesh in the nozzle)?


 
  
 I mean the carbon part. There's no way I could work on re-positioning a glued BA from the mesh / nozzle part.
  
 This thing looks glued shut with hot glue. I'm afraid that I'll break the plastic first.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Nevermind. I opened it with watch case opener, the hot glue doesn't touch the carbon side, but I broke the 'pins' that supposedly inserted to the other part of the body. Just when I thought that the ZS3 have the flimsiest plastic material -____-
  
 Can't post pic because new member, but you get the idea.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Anyone here to recommend a decent case for cheap?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

KZ has one for $1 or so which I've been using.


----------



## Vidal

thewongwrong said:


> Anyone here to recommend a decent case for cheap?


 
  
 The KZ semi hard case
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-Earphone-Wire-Storage-Box-Data-Line-Cables-High-End-Headphones-Container-Case-Earbuds-SD/32739573717.html
  
 The KZ hard case
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-KZ-High-End-Earphone-Compressive-Damping-Box-Drop-Resistance-Protective-Case-Portable-Earphone-Case-Headphone/32747236876.html
  
 There's also a leather one by GGMM which is more suited to IEMs rather than the CIEM style of the KZ phones. Can't find it at the moment though.


----------



## Slater

vidal said:


> The KZ semi hard case
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-Earphone-Wire-Storage-Box-Data-Line-Cables-High-End-Headphones-Container-Case-Earbuds-SD/32739573717.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 I have lots of both of those KZ cases and they are great.
  
 The plastic hard case one is giant - like the size of 4-5 iphones stacked up. It does provide the best protection though. You could throw against a brick wall and it would laugh at you. One downside to the hard case is you have to be careful not to pinch the cable in any of the edges (seams) when closing the case (like this):

  
 For IEMs with memory wires, the semi-hard case is a more compact alternative to the plastic hard case, and works great as long as you carefully coil up the cable to fit.
  
 For most things without memory wire (ear buds, etc), the generic circular cases work perfectly (such as the "Music Doctor" cases Gearbest sells). You can find them on aliexpress for under $1. They are perfectly pocketable, but they are thinner than the semi-hard case (which is why I don't use them memory wires).
  
 Here's a photo:

  
 I've never seen the GGMM case Vidal. Is this it?


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> I've never seen the GGMM case Vidal. Is this it?


 
  
 Yes, that's the one also come in black leather, it's got a magnetic closer.


----------



## KingOfThorns

envinite said:


> ZST's tube diameter is around 5.56 mm, so it should fit nicely using tips with hole around 5mm, checked with calipers.


 
  
 On that subject, is that the case with ZS3 too? I wanna order some foam tips, I just need to make sure they'll fit. Any sugestion for the tips for ZS3?


----------



## SpiderNhan

kingofthorns said:


> On that subject, is that the case with ZS3 too? I wanna order some foam tips, I just need to make sure they'll fit. Any sugestion for the tips for ZS3?



I don't have any measurements but the ZS3 nozzle is slightly narrower than the ZST. I was testing out the KZ Turbo ear tips, which are gray with either a red or blue core, and while they fit both the ZST and ZS3 the ear tips came off the nozzle and lodged themselves in my ear when I used them with the ZS3.


----------



## Shinry

slaterlovesspam said:


> Spoiler: Spoiler, too much text
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


thewongwrong said:


> Anyone here to recommend a decent case for cheap?


 
 I've also got the KZ semi-hardcase and half a dozen round cases with different comic and mangadesigns (Princess Mononoke, Batman, Totoro and stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) Easily to distinguish when switching between phones on the go and I like them better than the uni ones. 
 OT: Those round ones are also titled as coin purse and key purse. A purpose I also use them for. (I think you can fit about 10 Keys inside, hanging at the small loop next to the zipper)
  
 Edit:
 Put the quote in a spoiler for the sake of our smartphoneusing members


----------



## Spladox

hey guys, i listen to mainly orchestras will zs3 do the job well? my im50 just broke


----------



## loomisjohnson

spladox said:


> hey guys, i listen to mainly orchestras will zs3 do the job well? my im50 just broke


 

 the zs3 are fun but bassy and not super-extended or detailed--the more balanced/detailed zst would probably serve you better


----------



## Envinite

kingofthorns said:


> On that subject, is that the case with ZS3 too? I wanna order some foam tips, I just need to make sure they'll fit. Any sugestion for the tips for ZS3?


 
  
 ZS3 nozzle is like around 5.1 mm. You'll need a tip with hole smaller than 4.8 mm for it to have decent grip to not slide around.
  
 Though, you can always wrap an electrical tape or other tape adhesives on the nozzle to make tips with larger holes fits. If the tips have smaller hole, it still fits with enough force, but expect a slight decrease on high frequency.


----------



## Slater

shinry said:


> I've also got the KZ semi-hardcase and half a dozen round cases with different comic and mangadesigns (Princess Mononoke, Batman, Totoro and stuff   ) Easily to distinguish when switching between phones on the go and I like them better than the uni ones.
> OT: Those round ones are also titled as coin purse and key purse. A purpose I also use them for. (I think you can fit about 10 Keys inside, hanging at the small loop next to the zipper)
> 
> Edit:
> Put the quote in a spoiler for the sake of our smartphoneusing members




That's a really good idea. I have to use a silver metallic Sharpie & write on the outside of the case. But it will look stupid if down the road what's stored inside doesn't match what I wrote on the outside.


----------



## KingOfThorns

envinite said:


> ZS3 nozzle is like around 5.1 mm. You'll need a tip with hole smaller than 4.8 mm for it to have decent grip to not slide around.
> 
> Though, you can always wrap an electrical tape or other tape adhesives on the nozzle to make tips with larger holes fits. If the tips have smaller hole, it still fits with enough force, but expect a slight decrease on high frequency.


 
  
 Damn...are there cheap ones that will fit well and not be a bitch to install? From what I've seen on Ali, it's either 4.1 or 4.9 mm...
A review of ZS3 on Head-Fi mentioned they got good results with Ultimate Ear's UE600 tips, which are T-200/4 mm, IIRC? Isn't that too small?


----------



## To.M

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs3 are fun but bassy and not super-extended or detailed--the more balanced/detailed zst would probably serve you better




ZST or Urbanfun HiFi.


----------



## mrlefteris

kingofthorns said:


> Damn...are there cheap ones that will fit well and not be a bitch to install? From what I've seen on Ali, it's either 4.1 or 4.9 mm...
> A review of ZS3 on Head-Fi mentioned they got good results with Ultimate Ear's UE600 tips, which are T-200/4 mm, IIRC? Isn't that too small?


 
 4.1mm should be fine and as Envinite said tape will do the trick if its big even tho i dont think KZ has small tips on these units, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/complys/32477744702.html?
 Im getting these myself as they are supposed to be the comfort ones from comply and a lot of users have said that they are somewhat good


----------



## Viber

Just got the KZ ZS3 from GearBest, i'm gonna do a review on them and give them a 5/5 based on their performance in movies and gaming. absolutely brilliant pair!


----------



## Slater

Checking in with my KZ LP3 that arrived last week. I figured for under $15, why not right?
  
 Open design, lightweight, and comes with 2 sets of different foam pads (smaller on-ear and larger Grado bowl style).
  
 Looks kind of like a baby Grado, right? Boy, I couldn't wait!
  

  
  
 Well, I was sorely disappointed. What a turd sandwich.
  
 It has the construction of a dollar store headphone. The small stock pads are GLUED on, and to swap to the larger included Grado bowl-style pads, you have to disassemble the cups. You would think those 3 in-your-face screws are holding the cups together, which would have been too easy. The screws are just holding the basically cosmetic grille on. Instead the cups are clipped together with the world's most brittle plastic. So I broke every clip opening them up, and you would think the pad would come right off, right? I mean, they included an alternate set of pads, right? Wrong. The pads are GLUED on, and you have to tear them apart to remove them. In the process, the aluminum trim ring fell off on both sides too. So I finally switch the pads to the large ones, but since I broke all of the clips I had to super glue the cups back together, as well as the aluminum trim rings.
  
 Now to try them on. Well, the headband has about 1.5" of length adjustment, but the cups are at a fixed angle so they have no rotation or tilt. If I had a cube-shaped head they would have fit great, but my head isn't a cube. Therefore the only way to adjust anything is by bending the metal sliders with pliers (which takes a number of bending re-adjustments to get a good fit). In the process of all of that bending and re-bending, the aluminum trim rings fall off again, so I reglue them for a 2nd time.
  
 Whew! With that done, time to fire these bad boys up and take a listen!
  
 Well, remember how I said it had the construction of a dollar store headphone? Well, it has the sound of one too. You would think with it being open it wouldn't sound half bad. I mean, the KSC75 is $15 and sounds stellar. Well, these sound like a pocket-sized transistor radio. I should have known too, because when I had the cups apart to swap the pads, the drivers were the saddest looking things I've ever seen (I didn't measure them, but they looked to be about 20-25mm in diameter with a magnet no larger than my pinky fingernail.
  
 I would have been better off buying 15 pairs of dollar store headphones.
  
 I can't even give them away because they've been bent specifically to fit my head only. So at this point I'm going to try and attach some KSC75s to the headband, hoping they don't fall apart in the process. So the LP3 is a $15 headband. Thanks KZ.
  
 Anyone who is looking forward to the new LP bluetooth (LP4 I believe), think very carefully. I have no beef with KZ - they make a great in-ear and I own about 25 of them. But they should definitely stick to in-ears if the LP3 is any indication of the kind of headphones they cook up.


----------



## smy1

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yup. And many users complain about the fitment of the Andromeda due to the sharp corners, which is why I'm not sure why KZ decided to copy it vs a more natural/organic shaped IEM. I mean, is the emphasis on the visual design or the sound (performance). Classic form vs function argument.
> 
> As they proved with the HDS2, flattery isn't always the sincerest form of compliment. The HDS2 was a blatant copy of the Yamaha EPH100, but the HDS2 sounded like a steaming pile of poo compared to the Yamaha.




Yeah i kinda felt the sharp corner when I had the andromeda.


----------



## ricemanhk

slaterlovesspam said:


> I think the big revolution is going to come when graphene drivers become perfected & commonplace.


 
  
 Xiaomi pistons gen 5 (HD Pro model with 2 DD + 1 BA) already uses graphene drivers, at least their marketing materials say so...


----------



## smy1

Does anybody know how the ed12 sounds? They are like $8 on gearbest.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

smy1 said:


> Does anybody know how the ed12 sounds? They are like $8 on gearbest.




Pretty bad. Not recommended.


----------



## smy1

sometechnoob said:


> Pretty bad. Not recommended.


 
  
 yeah i order the ZST colorful one can you describe there sound?


----------



## Shadowsora

Colorful ZST just arrived, with a broken silver cable, contacted seller immediately..
  
 Early impressions:
 Nice fast sub bass, mids are there, highs have a weird spike which CAN become annoying, W-Shaped sound.
 It's a good IEM, but nothing really extraordinary, it fails to differentiate itself out of all the IEMs I have.
  
  
 ATE/ATR remains the best VFM and offer a really good option for treble sensitive people or Vocal lovers, ZST on the other side just sinks in the IEM ocean.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I think for me ZS3 still sits at the top, with ZST and ATR coming in afterward in that order.  ZST mids and highs can sound a bit artificial at times is the best way I can put it.  Clarity is good, but the vocals just aren't as lush and rich as to other IEMs and cans I'm used to.  I hate to use these sorts of audiophile terms, but it's so damn difficult to explain.  ATR is super laid back and lacks midrange clarity, which for me is a bit no-no.
  
 I get a lot more comments on the ZST Colorful w/ the silver cable than the plain black ZS3 though, so I'll keep running the ZST Colorfuls and see which one wins in the long run.  Can't go wrong with either, although the ZS3 is generally cheaper than the ZST.


----------



## Shinry

Does someone know KZ IE7(0)?
  
 Just seen them at Yaoyaotigers shop but nowhere else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product/Original-KZ-IE7-HIFI-Balanced-Hifi-Music-DJ-Studio-3-5mm-In-ear-Stereo-Earphones-Earpiece/1213684_32807350217.html?spm=2114.12010611.0.0.4Z3dMj


----------



## SpiderNhan

shinry said:


> Does someone know KZ IE7(0)?



Those don't resemble anything that KZ has ever made. Either KZ have updated their designs or this is some manufacturer trying to capitalize on the KZ name.


----------



## Saoshyant

spidernhan said:


> Those don't resemble anything that KZ has ever made. Either KZ have updated their designs or this is some manufacturer trying to capitalize on the KZ name.




The IE7 is a couple years old, never seem to hear about it.


----------



## Shinry

I'll ask them about it.
 Yaoyaotiger is now the headphone distributor under Beteran Hifi so I actually thought they would be reliable.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The IE7 is an old model that I'm pretty sure was originally part of the g.k. lineup. Pretty sure it came out around the same time as the IE8 and IE80 models.


----------



## Shinry

Ok, just got an answer.
  

```
Hi, friend, this is old model, we find it in our warehouse now
```
  
 still sounds interesting.
 Do the more experienced KZ collectors have them and can say something about the sound? 
  
 Some older models seem to be rare gems, would be cool for this to be one of them


----------



## Carson Wotell

I've just received my KZ ZST's and so far I'm very impressed with the sound.


----------



## Vidal

I've ordered the IE7, let's see if they ship


----------



## beowulf

VinceHill24 said:


> Asked KZ about the connection type earlier today and they send me this.



Wow, that looks like a plastic home made Andromeda. It's strange to me why brands do something like that. Doesn't really give a good image.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@beowulf I really doubt KZ cares, lol. Look at all the AT inspired earphones in their lineup. At least they back up their borrowed designs with good sound and a low price, and aren't trying to sell them as the real deal. Would still rather they come up with their own designs though.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Vidal said:


> I've ordered the IE7, let's see if they ship



They've raised the price to $13.98 US now.


----------



## wendyKL

Hi this thread is so massive, can some kind soul help a lady and let me know which is the best model to buy and with what upgrades so I can purchase immediately. Thank you.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@wendyKL My recommendations can be found here (off-site location, don't feel like typing);

https://thecontraptionist.blog/2017...-place-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-4/


----------



## Vidal

wendyKL said:


> Hi this thread is so massive, can some kind soul help a lady and let me know which is the best model to buy and with what upgrades so I can purchase immediately. Thank you.





B9Scrambler said:


> @wendyKL My recommendations can be found here (off-site location, don't feel like typing);
> 
> https://thecontraptionist.blog/2017...-place-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-4/



Along with B9's excellent guide to all things KZ there's also my reviews quite a few of which are KZ - see the link in my signature


----------



## VinceHill24

Don't want to disappoint anyone, but as i expected... the 4 driver's not gonna be metal. And they're preparing for release after labour day. It's kinda huge disappointment for me tho


----------



## ezekiel77

wendyKL said:


> Hi this thread is so massive, can some kind soul help a lady and let me know which is the best model to buy and with what upgrades so I can purchase immediately. Thank you.



ZST Colorful for good balance (and looks), ZS3 for bass (and comfort), and ATR as the best $5 you will ever spend.

(offtopic) You just joined when HeadFi got bad lol.


----------



## CoiL

ezekiel77 said:


> You just joined when HeadFi got bad lol.


oh my... what a mess H-fi is atm.

But I wouldn`t call ZST quite balanced, it still has little bass and treble emphasis and I would call it rather slight V-shaped IEM


----------



## Mus1c

I like this new headfi new look much simple, so modern.


----------



## Enn Jott

I agree...


----------



## nocturnalbeast

Can anyone tell me what is the diameter of the speaker stem of the ZS3? I'm trying to get a set of aftermarket tips for the ZS3.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Apr 28, 2017)

nocturnalbeast said:


> Can anyone tell me what is the diameter of the speaker stem of the ZS3? I'm trying to get a set of aftermarket tips for the ZS3.



5mm, but keep in mind there is no lip to hold tips on.

Edit: Since I had them out I decided to toss them in for a listen. Forgot just how good they were.


----------



## nocturnalbeast

B9Scrambler said:


> 5mm, but keep in mind there is no lip to hold tips on.
> 
> Edit: Since I had them out I decided to toss them in for a listen. Forgot just how good they were.



Thank you!
One more thing, what aftermarket tips would you most likely recommend to improve the fit and sound of the ZS3?


----------



## B9Scrambler

nocturnalbeast said:


> Thank you!
> One more thing, what aftermarket tips would you most likely recommend to improve the fit and sound of the ZS3?



Cheers!

I use mine with Ultimate Ears tips. KZ's "Starline" tips are great with them. Look like these. They might come with them now for all I know.

Others I'm sure will have some good suggestions


----------



## nocturnalbeast

B9Scrambler said:


> Cheers!
> 
> I use mine with Ultimate Ears tips. KZ's "Starline" tips are great with them. Look like these. They might come with them now for all I know.
> 
> Others I'm sure will have some good suggestions


What is your opinion on the Sony Hybrids (both normal ones and the foam filled ones), Auvio tips and Spinfits?


----------



## B9Scrambler

nocturnalbeast said:


> What is your opinion on the Sony Hybrids (both normal ones and the foam filled ones), Auvio tips and Spinfits?



Haven't tried Auvio or Spinfit before. Love Sony Hybrid tips (both types), but I find they boost mid-bass a bit much for my preferences with the ZS3. Prefer something with a wide bore.


----------



## SpiderNhan

nocturnalbeast said:


> Thank you!
> One more thing, what aftermarket tips would you most likely recommend to improve the fit and sound of the ZS3?


I really like these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYMBIO-Silicone-Memory-Foam-Special-Hybrid-Universal-Eartips-/122455642972?

They perform like a silicon/foam hybrid, aren't sticky, are comfortable and fit the ZS3 like a glove. It improves the isolation too. I was siting in a park surrounded by screaming kids listening to a PODCAST, not music, and could nary hear a disturbance.


----------



## nocturnalbeast

SpiderNhan said:


> I really like these.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYMBIO-Silicone-Memory-Foam-Special-Hybrid-Universal-Eartips-/122455642972?
> 
> They perform like a silicon/foam hybrid, aren't sticky, are comfortable and fit the ZS3 like a glove. It improves the isolation too. I was siting in a park surrounded by screaming kids listening to a PODCAST, not music, and could nary hear a disturbance.



I did some snooping around their thread and it seems that the tips are actually Hybrids/Hybrid clones filled with 3M earplug foam cut into the required shape. I think I could make one if I got the things I need.


----------



## wendyKL

SpiderNhan said:


> I really like these.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYMBIO-Silicone-Memory-Foam-Special-Hybrid-Universal-Eartips-/122455642972?
> 
> They perform like a silicon/foam hybrid, aren't sticky, are comfortable and fit the ZS3 like a glove. It improves the isolation too. I was siting in a park surrounded by screaming kids listening to a PODCAST, not music, and could nary hear a disturbance.



I've just gone ahead and bought the Symbio memory foam hybrid ear tips from the seller in your link for my KZ ZST. Many thanks for the heads up. I see you have the following:

1More Triple Driver, ATH-CKR9, KZ ATR, KZ ZST, KZ ZS3, Magaosi K3 Pro

Whats your best one from that list, the Magaosi K3 pro is next on my list? Where would you rate the KZ ZST in that list? What mods do you have for your ZST? Thank you for the info.


----------



## SpiderNhan (Apr 29, 2017)

@wendyKL
My acquisition of the ATR, ZST, ZS3 and K3 Pro all came around the same time and I haven't put in as many hours with each as I would like. Depending on value, I think the ZST and ZS3 are the safest choices for the majority of people. Here's a quick rundown in order of best to worst for me in terms of value:

ZST
*Pros *- Beautiful build, looks cool, comfortable fit, replaceable cable, detailed sound, wide sound stage
*Cons *- QC issues(blocked vent), tip dependent(I get driver flex with silicon but none with foams), slightly bright and fatiguing

ZS3
*Pros *- Beautiful build, looks cool, incredible can't-hear-a-damn-thing isolation, replaceable cable, detailed, rich, warm sound
*Cons *- Uncomfortable vacuum effect when inserted, strange nozzle size, *irregular fit

K3 Pro
*Pros *- Easily the most technically accomplished and best sounding IEM of the bunch, great extension at both ends of the sonic spectrum, solid build, tiny ear pieces that are comfortable even when laying on one's side, tuning nozzles for bassy or balanced sound that actually work, nice, although large, carrying case that is useful beyond just storing the IEMs, MMCX connectors which allow for a wide variety of after-market upgrades
*Cons *- Eventually causes pain in my right ear, slightly bright, **QC issues plaguing recent purchasers

1More Triple Driver
*Pros *- Beautiful build, unrivaled unboxing experience, oh so comfortable, true universal remote, fun, warm sound
*Cons *- Cable is microphonic and over ear wear is awkward, sounds veiled and muddy next to K3, not worth $100 price tag but if you can find it for $60(Costco) it's a steal

ATR
*Pros *- Cheap!, comfortable, smooth, relaxed and inoffensive(non-fatiguing) sound
*Cons *- Sticky cable, smooth, relaxed and inoffensive(boring) sound

CKR9
*Pros *- Solid, durable build, warm sound with punchy bass
*Cons *- Awkward fit, crappy crappy microphonic cable, sound feels like it's missing something that I can't quite place a finger on, many better options for the current price these are going for

*_I complained to GearBest that the first ZS3 they sent me had a massive channel imbalance where the right earpiece was significantly quieter than the left earpiece and they promptly sent a replacement free of charge. The replacement unit also exhibited the same channel imbalance. Baffled I started tip rolling both units which is also a challenge because the ZS3's nozzle has an unusual diameter. Too wide for 3mm bores, but too slim for 5mm. KZ Starlines and MandarinEs Symbios were the only tips I had that fit. Still, with whichever tip, the channel imbalance remained. Then I had an idea. Pull out. Instead of the usual deep insertion I try to get with all my IEMs, the ZS3 only functions properly for me if I insert it all the way and then pull them out. 2-3mm will do it. At first I thought that the shallower fit might cause them to slide out overtime but the over ear cable and vacuum seal these provide keep them secure._

**_Luckily my issue with the K3 Pro, frequent disconnection with the two stock cables, was easily remedied by using a third-party cable. Others have had far more troubling issues such as nozzles breaking off, improperly aligned drivers, unofficial colorways and channel imbalances. For the time it takes to receive these from AliExpress and the headaches to follow in trying to get replacements and reimbursements I would say it's a much safer route to pick up the Audbos K3 from Amazon to get them quicker and easily replaced should there be an issue. Without all the problems cropping up on Head-Fi, as well my own issues, the K3 would have been at the top of my list._


----------



## VinceHill24

The KZ thread looks like dead. Or maybe head-fi forums in general. It's still gonna be some waiting time for 4 drivers probably this week or the next. Just in case anyone's curious to find out.


----------



## ricemanhk

I think people are weirded out with the new format...SO MANY ADS OMG.  I like how it's all grey boxes though with my adblocker lol

Labor day holiday in China ends on Thursday, although for taobao/tmall they usually preempt this since consumers tend to shop more during holidays.  But nothing on their tmall site yet...


----------



## all999

Keep us informed guys!


----------



## SpiderNhan

Has anyone ordered the ZST Bluetooth cable? I was going to buy one but they're sold out on Ali unless I buy it together with a ZST.


----------



## actorlife

New one or older one? Read the last one was not good.


----------



## SpiderNhan

I didn't know there was an older one. It's the one that shows up when you search "KZ Bluetooth" on Ali.


----------



## actorlife

I think the battery power was low 3-4hrs.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Okay, thanks. I'm pulling my hair out looking for a suitable workout solution. The 1More EB100 I have is meant as a gift for my brother, but now that I've gotten a taste of Bluetooth's convenience I'm frantically searching for my own pair. I really like the 1Mores but the earhook design doesn't quite work with my glasses.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I thought the ZST Bluetooth cables were relatively new.  Didn't think anyone actually got them in yet for testing.


----------



## flexy321

Hey guys!

Upon reading lots of reviews and ordering the KZ EDR1 from DX (I am entirely new to those cheap IEMs), today they arrived. Obviously I didn't have time for break-in yet, but I think the EDR1s are "ok". I am pretty much a bass head tho. I am using the smallest rubber things that come with it and I need to push these really far in to get "good bass", and of course I need to use my "V"-type equalizer in Soundblaster as well. Initially I expected these so good as to not even requiring an EQ. Overall I am a little disappointed. I am still preferring my ancient SONY 818 honestly for overal better, more "open" sound but still with good, "round" bass. Maybe I am just not the type for IEMs. I am not saying these IEMs are "bad" (now compared to the crap from the dollar store which is horrible), but still. I am still eying the KS ZS3 and will probably buy just to test.
I will also look into "old style" buds and VE Monk caught my attention, will try these as well.


----------



## all999

SpiderNhan said:


> Has anyone ordered the ZST Bluetooth cable? I was going to buy one but they're sold out on Ali unless I buy it together with a ZST.



Mine is on it's way.


----------



## B9Scrambler

flexy321 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Upon reading lots of reviews and ordering the KZ EDR1 from DX (I am entirely new to those cheap IEMs), today they arrived. Obviously I didn't have time for break-in yet, but I think the EDR1s are "ok". I am pretty much a bass head tho. I am using the smallest rubber things that come with it and I need to push these really far in to get "good bass", and of course I need to use my "V"-type equalizer in Soundblaster as well. Initially I expected these so good as to not even requiring an EQ. Overall I am a little disappointed. I am still preferring my ancient SONY 818 honestly for overal better, more "open" sound but still with good, "round" bass. Maybe I am just not the type for IEMs. I am not saying these IEMs are "bad" (now compared to the crap from the dollar store which is horrible), but still. I am still eying the KS ZS3 and will probably buy just to test.
> I will also look into "old style" buds and VE Monk caught my attention, will try these as well.



Welcome to the KZ clan! Try experimenting with the different tip sizes the EDR1 came with. I tend to start with the largest (if the mediums don't do it right off the bat) and work my way down to find out which gives the best combination of comfort and seal. IEMs are pretty much reliant on a good seal for sound, especially bass, so some experimentation is often necessary to get the most out of them.

The VE Monk is a great bud. If you want something a bit bassier with less treble hotness, give the FiiO EM3 a go. They're both excellent though.


----------



## Toulouse

all999 said:


> Mine is on it's way.



Eager to hear what your impression is when it arrives.


----------



## ricemanhk

Still nothing on KZ taobao/tmall store.  Not sure where the other poster is getting the info from...do they really have an official QQ account?

Anyway, let's just wait til an actual link to the product page is available.


----------



## ephrank

Selling my KZ ZST w/ official silver cable (Sydney Australia)

Ends up preferring the sound of ZS3 (like many others )

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/syd...-zst-in-ear-monitor-w-silver-cable/1146973338


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Is it actually worth the time selling IEMs which you can buy new for $16 usd though haha


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 7, 2017)

If you're looking for a new pair of IEM's and don't have many, the IE7 are the right pair for you!

It took nine days for them to arrive with China Post Registered Air Mail, wowee! They even came with a Canadian tracking number. I don't know how this is all possible for $9.98? Before the price raised to $13.98.

Out of the box, they sound burned in and musical (Studio-like as advertised) with a lot/bit of treble, not too harsh but maybe not good for long listening sessions. They probably come with quality components, the plug is top notch and well made, and is not like any other KZ headphones I have. It is probably a high-end plug they used to use.

The blue cable is super good "medium" quality, but it's pretty short, so it's meant for connecting to a smaller music player/that is in a pocket in front of you.

The IEM case crackles under pressure, this is really weird. I've never seen this before. Cheap plastic. These headphones won't last forever.

The weak part of the cable are the wires connected to the ear pieces from the Y connector. If they ever break, they do so via the ear piece wire while be placed into your ear.

I can also see people having fit problems, as they only came with one pair of tips and they feel like they'll come out easily.

Yaoyaotiger HIFI Audio Store is simply amazing! Nine days to Canada!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...ar-Stereo-Earphones-Earpiece/32807350217.html


----------



## actorlife (May 5, 2017)

Oh snap.


----------



## buzz2086

Are the gold cable weights on the kz ate removeable ? I find it really annoying when walking around with them.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I bought the KZ ATR instead of the ATE should I have done the opposite?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I bought the KZ ATR instead of the ATE should I have done the opposite?


Both are decent for the price.  You should be fine.


----------



## Viber

I just wanted to add KZ makes the best nozzles in the world!
It's amazing how many manufacturers choose to make earphones with too short\too fat\too skinny nozzles while KZ just makes perfect LONG nozzles which aren't too thin and work with many kinds types of tips.

Based on my exp with ATR and ZS3.


----------



## actorlife

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I bought the KZ ATR instead of the ATE should I have done the opposite?


ATR NEED OVER 90+HRS OF BI. ATE NEED AT LEAST 49+


----------



## dudinacas

Hey, I haven't been on Head-fi since January. Any new products from KZ?


----------



## Mus1c

actorlife said:


> ATR NEED OVER 90+HRS OF BI. ATE NEED AT LEAST 49+


Holy crap are you sure it doesn't need to burn that much time it only take me like 4 to 7 hours on all kz.


----------



## Mus1c

dudinacas said:


> Hey, I haven't been on Head-fi since January. Any new products from KZ?


No still the same


----------



## Vidal

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If you're looking for a new pair of IEM's and don't have many, the IE7 are the right pair for you!



I thought they were OK, they lack a bit of sharpness, soundstage and clarity but fairly balanced overall.


----------



## CoiL

actorlife said:


> ATR NEED OVER 90+HRS OF BI. ATE NEED AT LEAST 49+


While I`ve experienced some burn-in cases, I don`t think ATR nor ATE will improve much with burn-in time. 
I`ve had many many ATR`s and ATE`s on my hands and ears, no certain burn-in effect to my ears.

With ATR most important is to use right tips and littlebit amping!
ATE is just about same and good with everything, just use wide bore silicone tips and remove nozzle grill to get slightly more details.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Just got the ZS3 and after some time with it I felt the medium tips (The size I typically use) made the ZS3 sound a tad bloated.  After reading a through review on Amazon, I tried the small tips as recommended by the author and it totally tamed the bass, gave it more mid punch and balance overall.  I also bought the upgrade cable for it.  What a fantastic sounding IEM.  The comfort and fit are awesome as well.


----------



## ezekiel77

Dark Helmet said:


> Just got the ZS3 and after some time with it I felt the medium tips (The size I typically use) made the ZS3 sound a tad bloated.  After reading a through review on Amazon, I tried the small tips as recommended by the author and it totally tamed the bass, gave it more mid punch and balance overall.  I also bought the upgrade cable for it.  What a fantastic sounding IEM.  The comfort and fit are awesome as well.



Wow really? For me burning them in for 100 hours tightened up the bass somewhat. Very enjoyable fella for the price.


----------



## Slater (May 17, 2017)

Hey, to those with the ZS3. I found a new mod tonight.

It has been previously posted by a few people that removing the red screen on the very end of the nozzle affects the sound. Removing it reduces the bass quantity slightly (while simultaneously removing the muddiness), and also improves the midrange.

*Well, I found a different mod that makes further improvements.*

BEHIND the red screen is a small piece of black acoustic foam. It's stuffed in the very tip of the plastic tube (the color of the plastic tube might be red or blue). It's exactly like the piece of foam stuffed inside of the shiny gold ED9 filter. Anyways, you REMOVE this piece of foam by just grabbing it with the tip of a sewing needle. You'll need a flashlight to assist seeing down inside of the nozzle to where the foam is. Carefully set aside the foam - they're extremely small and easy to lose. You can store the foam pieces in a small ziplock baggie like the one that many silicone eartips come in.

The change is a very noticeable improvement - the boominess that the ZS3 had is now gone, upper mids are less recessed, and the treble is sparkly and clear. They kind of remind me of an improved ATR, but I need to A/B them with the ATR to verify. Synthesizers, pianos, & guitars sound great.

It's tuned much more towards neutral with the mods, but there's still plenty of bass when called upon. It just isn't boomy and muddy like it was stock. Don't get me wrong, I think the ZS3 is a pretty good in-ear (especially for bassheads). I just know a lot of people are turned off by its overpowering bass that dominates the whole listening experience. This mod corrects that.

It's up to you if you remove the foam yet put the red screen back, or remove both the foam and the red screen. It's easy enough to try it both ways and see which you like better. I settled on removing both after trying it both ways. Just keep an eye on ear wax buildup inside the nozzle if you run with no red screen (remove ear tip every once in a while and carefully clean out any funk).

The mod is very easy, takes less than 30 seconds total, and is totally reversible.

You use the sewing needle (or small straightened paper clip) for removing both the red screen and the black foam. Gently pry the edge of the red screen using the needle and it will pop right up. It's just held on by a ring of sticky adhesive around the edge. I stuck mine to a piece of wax paper to save for future keeping, as it sticks right back onto the end of the ZS3 nozzle if you ever need to put the red screen back (instead of wax paper, you could use anything non-stick - plastic wrap, sandwich baggie, or the slick paper backing from a peeled-off sticker or vinyl graphics.

Here's photos of the red screen so you know what to expect:


 

The following interior diagram will show you everything that you need to know (you don't actually open the shell for the foam mod - the interior diagram is just to illustrate where the foam is located):


*UPDATE:* I found a camera lens and settings that would allow me to get a good shot of the foam. It's impossible to gauge the depth in this photo, but that foam is located about 1/4" down inside the nozzle:


Here's what the piece of foam looks like after you've removed it with the needle (it gets more compressed once inside the plastic tube):



Also, while you're at it you may as well use the sewing needle to verify that the vent hole is open and not blocked. Just poke it with the sewing needle (or the tip of a thumbtack) and make sure it's not blocked with glue.

*One more thing - even if you don't plan on removing the foam, I would strongly recommend that you at least peek under the red screens of your ZS3.* Something that has always bothered me about 1 of my pairs of my ZS3 is that 1 side never sounded quite right. Well, low and behold I found that the foam on the 'never quite right' side was not even in the plastic tube, but just floating around freely inside the nozzle directly under the red screen. So at a minimum, looking under the red screens will allow you to make sure both of your foam pieces are inserted properly into the ends of the plastic nozzle. There have been reports of sound mismatches on 1 side. Early batches of the ZS3 had a crushed sound tube. Those were recalled a long time ago, so if you have a relatively recent ZS3 and you have something odd going on with 1 side, it could be that the foam isn't situated in the tube properly.

Let me know if you have any questions.

- Slater

P.S. - To the advanced IEM builders/modders out there, as you can see from the exploded diagram this would be an excellent host for turning into a hybrid DD + BA. The shell is easy to open, it's comfortable as heck, and there's plenty of room inside for a crossover in the shell & a BA driver inside the nozzle tube. Looking at the above photo, it almost looks as if KZ was planning that all along, and it wouldn't surprise me if a "ZS4" comes out as a dual hybrid using this same shell as they already have the shell tooling. Also, it would be easy to swap out the plastic tube for a copper one, as the plastic is extremely thin (it looks exactly like a piece of heat shrink tubing that hasn't been heated/shrunk; or it could also be a piece of drinking straw). It's that thin & flimsy.


----------



## ezekiel77

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hey, to those with the ZS3. I found a new mod tonight.
> 
> *Well, I found a different mod that makes further improvements.*



Thank you. That was very detailed and informative. Will try it out soon.


----------



## Slater

ezekiel77 said:


> Thank you. That was very detailed and informative. Will try it out soon.



No problem.

If you/anyone who does the mod could report back with your impressions, it would be appreciated.

I have 2 sets of ZS3, so it's easy for me to A/B the sound changes and make sure there's no placebo effect going on. But it's definitely nice to hear others' impressions to further cement what I'm hearing.


----------



## Slater

buzz2086 said:


> Are the gold cable weights on the kz ate removeable ? I find it really annoying when walking around with them.



Man, I wish MORE in-ears had this, as I'm not a fan of the memory wires! Those weights are like the best feature of the ATE.

Anyways, if you have a Dremel and are REALLY careful, you could use a cutoff disc and remove the weights. Go SLOW & take breaks after 1-2 seconds of cutting so you don't build up too much heat. Also don't try cutting all the way through or you risk nicking the cable. If you're clumsy with a Dremel there's a 90% chance of disaster. I'm practically a Dremel master, & even I would be hesitant to try & cut off those weights. It's certainly possible though.

Option 2 would be to open the ATE and solder in a replacement cable. The shells are really easy to open, and you can get genuine KZ replacement DIY cables for $2-$3 on aliexpress.

I know neither solution is probably that great, but I would recommend giving them more time. You may find that you start to not even notice the weights.

Something else to consider would be to pick up a pair of ATE-S. They are tuned with a little more bass than the regular ATE, they use the same shells, but they have memory wires instead of the gold weights.


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> *Well, I found a different mod that makes further improvements.*



Dammit, now I gotta try out ZS3... though, I don`t need it.



slaterlovesspam said:


> Man, I wish MORE in-ears had this, as I'm not a fan of the memory wires! Those weights are like the best feature of the ATE.
> 
> Anyways, if you have a Dremel and are REALLY careful, you could use a cutoff disc and remove the weights.



No need to cut anything! Just open ATE shells, desolder wires, split up weights by just pulling them apart with pliers, remove clamp that stops weights from moving and clamp at the soldering ends of wires, pull the weights over the wire and resolder wires, done.


----------



## Vidal

I'll have to give this ZS3 mod a try


----------



## Slater (May 8, 2017)

To anyone who tries the ZS3 mod, I wanted to give a friendly reminder to make sure they are seated & sealed reliably while modding and testing.

I've found that the ZS3 is one of those in-ears that can take a bit of fiddling to get set in the ears just right. During my testing & A/Bing, I removed & swapped them probably 30 times. And while they would feel like they were seated in properly, the sound was fluctuating occasionally, messing with my audio memory and making it take longer to evaluate changes I was making. I'd swear they were recessed here or were more forward there when I had them on a few minutes earlier. Then I'd fiddle with the seal, & boom they'd sound exactly like they should.

I know this is common sense, but it's just something to be aware of. I've noticed it's more of an issue with silicone tips, as memory foam provides a more consistent seal from session to session. I just don't use foams on the ZS3, and I generally try not to evaluate mods with foams because of the way foams color the sound.


----------



## DeLuX

While browsing Ali I came upon a seller called QKZ flagship store, it has all of the usual KZs but allso a lot of QKZ branded IEMs. Anyone know the relation between KZ/QKZ? Are the QKZs any good, if so which? Right now I'm loving the ZST & ZS3 School me please.


----------



## Slater

QKZ is affiliated with KZ. It's just a different line if products. Like GM makes numerous brands of cars (less now than before the bailout).


----------



## Slater (May 8, 2017)

The wait is over. Who's going to be the 1st?

All aboard the hype train - chuga chuga, chuga chuga, woo-woooooo!

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...phones-and-iems.820747/page-588#post-13477703


----------



## actorlife

If they are a better ks1 V.1 Bass king then Maybe I'll consider them. Got enuff EP's.


----------



## Keller2

Now that's just cruel for them to not be on aliexpress yet... Sigh,... i guess i'll wait the extra day.

Also keep in mind early revision tend to be a bit funky compared to later ones. I'm going in regardless tho since they actually dont look that bad compared to that horrendous image that was posted 10 pages back.


----------



## Slater

Keller2 said:


> Also keep in mind early revision tend to be a bit funky compared to later ones. I'm going in regardless tho since they actually dont look that bad compared to that horrendous image that was posted 10 pages back.



Yeah, I'm personally holding off for a few months. Although I really like KZ, too many models have had problems upon their initial release for my tastes (both QC and tuning issues). I'll see what the situation is like once everyone else gets theirs & the reports start rolling in (good or bad).


----------



## Keller2

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, I'm personally holding off for a few months. Although I really like KZ, too many models have had problems upon their initial release for my tastes (both QC and tuning issues). I'll see what the situation is like once everyone else gets theirs & the reports start rolling in (good or bad).



Yes. But they've also gone down in quality with later revisions. See: ZS1.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> If they are a better ks1 V.1 Bass king then Maybe I'll consider them. Got enuff EP's.



I have a feeling they are going to have some decent bass. If you look at this cutaway diagram, the large 10mm driver (responsible for bass) is firing directly in front of the nozzle opening. Most of the other drivers are buried inside of the shell, where some energy will be lost bouncing around inside of the shell.




Also, I wonder why they went ZS1, ZS2, ZS3, ZS5? Was I asleep when they released a ZS4? I mean, this model has 4 drivers inside - if there was ever a model that screamed the FOUR in ZS4 it would be this one, right?


----------



## Slater

Keller2 said:


> Yes. But they've also gone down in quality with later revisions. See: ZS1.



I agree. The original ZS1 rev 1 is hands down the best sounding v-shaped IEM KZ has ever made IMO. Why they tinkered with it is beyond me. Luckily I own 2 of them muhaha


----------



## Keller2

It looks like the Zs1 dual configuration had a baby with the ZST Configuration of 10mm + armature infront.

And then they just threw in another BA for good measure.



Actually very interested to see if it's going to be any good or not.


----------



## Slater

Something else to keep in mind with these 'ultra-high frequency' BA IEMs is how the average person's high frequency hearing starts taking a nosedive as we age. When I do frequency sweeps, I definitely can't hear as high as I could 10 or 20 years ago. No use paying for extra stuff you can't hear.

This isn't a specific reference to the ZS5, but more applicable as the 'more is better' BA wars heat up.


----------



## peskypesky (May 8, 2017)

Dark Helmet said:


> Just got the ZS3 and after some time with it I felt the medium tips (The size I typically use) made the ZS3 sound a tad bloated.  After reading a through review on Amazon, I tried the small tips as recommended by the author and it totally tamed the bass, gave it more mid punch and balance overall.  I also bought the upgrade cable for it.  What a fantastic sounding IEM.  The comfort and fit are awesome as well.



I was going to order the KZ ZST, but think I'll order the ZS3 instead, as I prefer a strong bass and have read the ZS3 are stronger at the low end. Glad you're enjoying yours.

I quite like the KZ ED9's I got a couple of weeks ago. Listening to seem early Genesis with them right now.


----------



## ephrank

SomeTechNoob said:


> Is it actually worth the time selling IEMs which you can buy new for $16 usd though haha



Of course!  Advantages of buying second hand KZ IEMs:

- Shipping time could be greatly reduced, or down to zero in case of local pickup
- Chance of getting Dead on Arrivals (DOA) is virtually zero. Remember, this is Chi-Fi
- IEMs already burned in, saving buyer's time
- Try before you buy possible, since there's no brick and mortar stores carrying KZ IEMs
- Reduce wastage + Eco Friendliness (TM)
- Save a few bucks for a nice cup of coffee


----------



## Keller2 (May 8, 2017)

what even is the point when recordings usually dont keep anything of value in that range?



peskypesky said:


> I was going to order the KZ ZST, but think I'll order the ZS3 instead, as I prefer a strong bass and have read the ZS3 are stronger at the low end. Glad you're enjoying yours.
> 
> I quite like the KZ ED9's I got a couple of weeks ago. Listening to seem early Genesis with them right now.



If you like the ED9s then the ZS3 is going to sound extremely veiled.

The ED9 is the brightest IEM KZ has right now and ZS3 is one of the darkest ( IMO ).

ZST is also bright but missees that midbass punch.

This might be a bit of an unpopular opinion but i think you might like the HDS3.


----------



## peskypesky (May 8, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Something else to keep in mind with these 'ultra-high frequency' BA IEMs is how the average person's high frequency hearing starts taking a nosedive as we age. When I do frequency sweeps, I definitely can't hear as high as I could 10 or 20 years ago. No use paying for extra stuff you can't hear.



I was shocked when I did a frequency sweep test and discovered how much high end I've lost. 

That being said, with all of my IEM's, I have to lower the high end by using eq adjustments...so I must still be hearing some highs.


----------



## Keller2

How unusual for a KZ IEM.


----------



## peskypesky (May 8, 2017)

Keller2 said:


> If you like the ED9s then the ZS3 is going to sound extremely veiled.
> 
> The ED9 is the brightest IEM KZ has right now and ZS3 is one of the darkest ( IMO ).




Hmmm. I've read a few reviews of the ZS3 and nobody mentioned them being veiled.

Have you heard the KZ DT5? I don't have any dual-driver IEM's so they intrigue me...but seem out of stock everywhere.  


If the ZS3's won't make me happy, maybe I'll just spend a bit more $ and get something like the **** 4in1, UrbanFuns or LZ A2s.


----------



## Keller2 (May 8, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> Hmmm. I've read a few reviews of the ZS3 and nobody mentioned them being veiled.
> 
> Have you heard the KZ DT5? I don't have any dual-driver IEM's so they intrigue me...but seem out of stock everywhere.



No, sorry.

I'm a fan of the ZST, Gave away my ZS3, Sold my ED9 and currently have RX/HDS3/ATE/ATR on hand with a ZS3 coming in the mail for science. I've also had a ZS1 ( my first KZ - actually ). Oh and i have an ed12 somewhere in the house. The only use those got were a cable donation for my ZST.

Out of those i think i would rate them ZST>HDS3>ED9>ATE>>ATR=RX>>ZS1>ZS3>>>>>>>ED12 for my usage, which nowadays is mostly synthwave, metal and gaming.
Needless to say i dont like things that dont have a decent presence up top.

Also, This is only my personal subjective leaderboard, by no means objective. I want to get a pair of ED10/ANV/Gen1 ZS1 and some *others* like the Zircon and Tennmak Pros.

Edit: Sorry for the long post, i am aware that you didnt ask me for my life story.


----------



## peskypesky

Keller2 said:


> I want to get a pair of ED10/ANV/Gen1 ZS1 and some *others* like the Zircon and Tennmak Pros.




I was interested in the Tennmak Pros...but I don't know if I'd like the over-ear style.


----------



## Slater (May 8, 2017)

Keller2 said:


> No, sorry.
> 
> I'm a fan of the ZST, Gave away my ZS3, Sold my ED9 and currently have RX/HDS3/ATE/ATR on hand with a ZS3 coming in the mail for science. I've also had a ZS1 ( my first KZ - actually ). Oh and i have an ed12 somewhere in the house. The only use those got were a cable donation for my ZST.
> 
> ...



You're going to have a difficult time finding ANV and ZS1 rev1 - they haven't been available for years.

Also, the ZS1 rev1 and Zircons are sub-bass skull crushers, which doesn't sound like your cup of tea.

What filters are you using on the ED9? The dull brass filter I assume?

And I'm with you - the HDS3 is a great in-ear (very underrated), and it's compact form factor makes it feel weightless and comfortable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 10, 2017)

I wish I never bought the KZ IE7, the ZS3 are much better. I took a gamble for you guys. (Reason: Need to find tips that actually seal. Sound quality is still great!)


----------



## SpiderNhan

Keller2 said:


> Out of those i think i would rate them ZST>HDS3>ED9>ATE>>ATR=RX>>ZS1>ZS3>>>>>>>ED12


Where does the ZS5 fit into the rankings?


----------



## ephrank

Can anyone recommend a reliable and fast Taobao seller. Looking to order the ZS5... Thanks!


----------



## CoiL

Keller2 said:


> How unusual for a KZ IEM.


WoW! If they are around 30$, they are totally worth the money!


----------



## Vidal

Wow, big change in opinion one post you're recommending them. 



LaughMoreDaily said:


> If you're looking for a new pair of IEM's and don't have many, the IE7 are the right pair for you!
> 
> I don't know how this is all possible for $9.98?



Then slating them, why the change of heart?



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I wish I never bought the KZ IE7, the ZS3 are much better. I took a gamble for you guys.


----------



## 1clearhead

CoiL said:


> WoW! If they are around 30$, they are totally worth the money!


Yea, great looking package!

QC is my biggest worry. 

....Should I buy them? Buy them! should I buy them? Buy them! should I buy them? Buy them! should I buy them? Buy them! should I buy them? Buy them! should I buy them? Buy them! should I buy them? Buy them!

OK, I still need more time to think about it.  ....All right! I might just go for it after all, then I'll argue for an exchange afterwards.


----------



## Mus1c

Keller2 said:


> How unusual for a KZ IEM.


Woooh..  this hell of premium iem how much does it cost in usd.


----------



## Mus1c

Anyone have order the zs5? This look very high quality and i have very high expectations for this zs5.


----------



## Mus1c

1clearhead said:


> Yea, great looking package!
> 
> QC is my biggest worry.
> 
> ...


Buy! Buy! Buy!  Let everybody know


----------



## 1clearhead

Yup!....just went with the "dark grey". Thumbs-up!

....all ready one person complained of the bad paint job on the "blue" ones at the Chinese taobao comments.


----------



## RKC1

I want to buy earphone under 20$...and i love bass ...so any suggestions? , please..


----------



## Paulo099

I'm looking for a bluetooth earphone that has a neutral or slightly warm sound. Is the KZ HDSE good for that? Or should I buy a KZ ZST with a bluetooth cable?


----------



## ezekiel77

slaterlovesspam said:


> Also, I wonder why they went ZS1, ZS2, ZS3, ZS5? Was I asleep when they released a ZS4? I mean, this model has 4 drivers inside - if there was ever a model that screamed the FOUR in ZS4 it would be this one, right?



Four is an unlucky number for Chinese (sounds like death). That's my best guess.


----------



## djmakemynight

RKC1 said:


> I want to buy earphone under 20$...and i love bass ...so any suggestions? , please..



ZS3 for the bass


----------



## djmakemynight

ezekiel77 said:


> Four is an unlucky number for Chinese (sounds like death). That's my best guess.



Yeah, true that. They might worry it will 4 before it took off hence skipping that number.


----------



## Slater

Paulo099 said:


> I'm looking for a bluetooth earphone that has a neutral or slightly warm sound. Is the KZ HDSE good for that? Or should I buy a KZ ZST with a bluetooth cable?



Reports on the ZST BT cable are about 3 hrs of play time. Plus you have the sound of, well, the ZST. It seems about 50/50 of people that like it/hate it.

My HDSE will be here any day. As soon as it arrives I'll post impressions.


----------



## Mus1c

SpiderNhan said:


> Where does the ZS5 fit into the rankings?


It will not fit i think they need to join another league like other high end iem cuz the four driver is madnezz


----------



## Mus1c

1clearhead said:


> Yup!....just went with the "dark grey". Thumbs-up!
> 
> ....all ready one person complained of the bad paint job on the "blue" ones at the Chinese taobao comments.


Good luck.. I hope there will no qc issue


----------



## Slater

ezekiel77 said:


> Four is an unlucky number for Chinese (sounds like death). That's my best guess.



Wow, didn't know that. KZ has done other units with 4 though, such as the ED4. Very odd indeed.


----------



## VinceHill24

Wow, i'm late to the game eh.. just coz i was disconnected from the online world due to some network problem and it didn't take even 1 day for this to pop up. What a rapid changing world. Reading through some of those Taobao comment i can say that it's quite promising and apparently some buyer said you've gotta try it with the "Gold" plated cable which actually brings out the best of its sound. Some commented that bass is lacking ?? I got a feeling that probably the different fitment on the ear coz you can clearly see a vent hole on the inner side facing the ear instead of outer so something to lookout for, possibly a moddable step. Some commented the stock cable to be plasticky and stiff as well, so not really well played here at cable part. Most says they're quite surprised that despite housing 2 dynamic drivers, the bass wasn't overbearing at all tho i'm quite sceptical seeing the FR graph, think the vent hole probably plays a big role here. Hopefully this could shed some lights on it
. Now it's about time waiting to get our hands on it for a listen


----------



## Shinry

slaterlovesspam said:


> Wow, didn't know that. KZ has done other units with 4 though, such as the ED4. Very odd indeed.


And it's not that well regarded


----------



## RKC1

Where zs3 stands against kz ate and kz zsT ?


----------



## WilliamCruz

zs3 is better


----------



## djmakemynight

Shinry said:


> And it's not that well regarded



Yeah, seems like people don't really like them much but I kinda like the warm sound signature of it.


----------



## Keller2

I just picked up my second ZS3 order - i was tottally wrong on these- they just require foam tips to sound amazing. And the shape is excellent aswell. They're quite bassy but not *THAT* veiled .
This moves the ZS3 to being on par ( or just a smidge under) the ED9 for me.


----------



## actorlife

Any number eight KZ I need good luck hahaha


----------



## loomisjohnson

i generally agree with keller2 on the zs3--i was listening to it all morning today and it is one dark phone--the zst has significantly more air/treble extension. that said, i do maintain the zs3 would appeal to fans of edm/techno, etc. + i still marvel at its vault-like isolation


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, should I get the gold or silver cable for ZS5?  Feeling indecisive


----------



## Keller2

Saoshyant said:


> Hmm, should I get the gold or silver cable for ZS5?  Feeling indecisive


Gray & Gold or Blue & Silver. 

It's the only objectively correct choice.


----------



## VShaft

I've tried the ZS3 mod Slater mentioned. Mine had one tiny difference than his model - in mine the red mesh and the black piece of foam are actually glued together. Of course, it's easy to tear them apart, but I didn't have the curiosity to experiment with combos of foam/red mesh on/off. I just removed the whole thing.

One most noticeable change is the reduced bloat of the bass... actually there's hardly any bloat at all. I didn't notice _that_ much change in the mids/highs, though they do seem a bit elevated/prominent, but that could just be the effect of the reduced bass (which there's still plenty off, rest assured). In any case, I'm keeping them this way. And thanks for the mod, Slater!

In other news, eagerly awaiting ZS5 impressions from some of the early birds in this thread.


----------



## Saoshyant

Keller2 said:


> Gray & Gold or Blue & Silver.
> 
> It's the only objectively correct choice.



Actually, even though I'm getting blue, I'm going to try gold as there's a chance previous silver KZ cables might fit.  Worst comes to worst, it's not like I'm going to be looking at the cable much.


----------



## actorlife (May 9, 2017)

Just did the slater zs3 mod. Is your red tube leaning on one side inside? Actually one side did not have the foam I guess it fell out when I took the burgundy mesh off when I first got them. Now for a listen. It does sound clearer with bass sounding less boomy. Mids sound more pronounced as well. Hooray Slater. Rhanks.


----------



## Slater

VShaft said:


> I've tried the ZS3 mod Slater mentioned. Mine had one tiny difference than his model - in mine the red mesh and the black piece of foam are actually glued together. Of course, it's easy to tear them apart, but I didn't have the curiosity to experiment with combos of foam/red mesh on/off. I just removed the whole thing.
> 
> One most noticeable change is the reduced bloat of the bass... actually there's hardly any bloat at all. I didn't notice _that_ much change in the mids/highs, though they do seem a bit elevated/prominent, but that could just be the effect of the reduced bass (which there's still plenty off, rest assured). In any case, I'm keeping them this way. And thanks for the mod, Slater!
> 
> In other news, eagerly awaiting ZS5 impressions from some of the early birds in this thread.



So, I think what was going on with yours was this - the bottom of the red screen is covered in an adhesive ring. This ring of sticky adhesive extends beyond the plastic lip of the nozzle. I'm willing to be that your black foam piece was floating around inside the nozzle (like mine was on 1 side or 1 of my pairs), and at some point the foam just got stuck to the underside of the red screen via the adhesive.

The 2 aren't supposed to be attached from the factory - I think the black foam falls on some (many) units while being bounced around in shipping, during use, etc.

Glad you liked the mod. I think it's definitely an improvement on an already great KZ in-ear, and the mod is so easy to perform!

I'm actually going to play around with reusing the foam piece on other IEMs - especially bass-anemic and/or overly bright ones. It should just be a matter of inserting the piece of foam down into the nozzle and seeing if there are any improvements. There has already been similar experimentation when he ED9 was all that and a bag of chips. People were removing the foam from the shiny gold filter & inserting it into the dull brass one to see what sound changes it made.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Just did the slater zs3 mod. Is your red tube leaning on one side inside? Actually one side did not have the foam I guess it fell out when I took the burgundy mesh off when I first got them. Now for a listen. It does sound clearer with bass sounding less boomy. Mids sound more pronounced as well. Hooray Slater. Rhanks.



Well, the plastic tube (which I have verified is just a piece of heat shrink tubing that hasn't been shrunk) meets the nozzle at an angle. In other words, it comes straight out of the driver, then the plastic tube ends right where the nozzle itself bends at a 30ish degree angle. Is that what you mean? If so, then it is installed properly.

You can't tell from this diagram because it's a top view:


If you want, I can do up a side view diagram that shows the plastic tube in relation to the nozzle angle.

What you want to make sure ISN'T happening is that you have one of the early (defective) ones with the crushed sound tube. Like this:


----------



## Dark Helmet

peskypesky said:


> I was going to order the KZ ZST, but think I'll order the ZS3 instead, as I prefer a strong bass and have read the ZS3 are stronger at the low end. Glad you're enjoying yours.
> 
> I quite like the KZ ED9's I got a couple of weeks ago. Listening to seem early Genesis with them right now.



using a size down from your typical tips size might help with treble retrieval and the bass tightens up.  I can see how people say that the ZS3 can sound veiled.  For me the difference between the medium tips and small tips are night and day.


----------



## Dark Helmet

RKC1 said:


> I want to buy earphone under 20$...and i love bass ...so any suggestions? , please..



KZ ZS3 have great bass, but maybe not basshead bass.  I find it to be plenty without cluttering the mix.


----------



## actorlife

Yeah it seems to lean on


slaterlovesspam said:


> Well, the plastic tube (which I have verified is just a piece of heat shrink tubing that hasn't been shrunk) meets the nozzle at an angle. In other words, it comes straight out of the driver, then the plastic tube ends right where the nozzle itself bends at a 30ish degree angle. Is that what you mean? If so, then it is installed properly.
> 
> You can't tell from this diagram because it's a top view:
> 
> ...


Yes it seems to lean on one side. Not crushed just both leaning on the side.


----------



## bhazard

ZS5 looks like a winner. Let's see if the SQ is there.


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2017)

ZS5 frequency graph:



No x-axis for reference though. But one thing you can infer from the graph is it looks to be pretty lean on the midrange.

Can anyone read Chinese? I want to know what it says with the "xxx 45KHz xxx". Especially since only some animals can hear that high.


----------



## SomeTechNoob (May 9, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> ZS5 frequency graph:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have really schiit chinese - can speak some but my reading is garbage.  Putting into google translate for pinyin and translating to the best of my ability seems to be something along the lines of:

"can maintain 45khz frequency".  The google translate seems accurate enough as well.  There are some words in there that I don't know but I can understand about 75% of it.  Hopefully someone else with better chinese can come along and confirm lol.


----------



## nocchi

slaterlovesspam said:


> ZS5 frequency graph:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well according to google translate: 

"Professional acoustic tuning ZS5 sound can be in the 45KHz band still maintain a certain sensitivity response, which is almost more than 95% of the market headphones can not do the level"


----------



## WilliamCruz

hope its not another bassy iem


----------



## TheWongWrong

slaterlovesspam said:


> ZS5 frequency graph:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well what it's trying to say is that it supposedly "maintains a quick/tight frequency response even at up to 45khz, which is a standard that 95% of headphones in the market cannot achieve" which yeah, should obviously be taken with many, many, many pinches of salt.


----------



## TheWongWrong

TheWongWrong said:


> Well what it's trying to say is that it supposedly "maintains a quick/tight frequency response even at up to 45khz, which is a standard that 95% of headphones in the market cannot achieve" which yeah, should obviously be taken with many, many, many pinches of salt.


Lol this photo says it only gets to 20khz, which I'm fine with but why lie about 45khz then suddenly telling us the truth afterwards??


----------



## TheWongWrong

TheWongWrong said:


> Lol this photo says it only gets to 20khz, which I'm fine with but why lie about 45khz then suddenly telling us the truth afterwards??


Yo is there a photo there cuz I can't seem to upload one


----------



## WilliamCruz

did they seriously use a driver for above 20khz.. you must be kidding me..


----------



## TheWongWrong (May 10, 2017)

Anyways don't think I'll be getting the ZS5 cuz the whole plastic trying to be metal thing just looks so... cheap (but I guess it is cheap). The gap in between the two halves of the housing especially is just ugly. The box however is definitely a step up in quality from what we can see but unless the sound quality is incredible, I don't think I'll pick these up for now


----------



## Slater (May 10, 2017)

nocchi said:


> Well according to google translate:
> 
> "Professional acoustic tuning ZS5 sound can be in the 45KHz band still maintain a certain sensitivity response, which is almost more than 95% of the market headphones can not do the level"



OK, so they should have said "Professional acoustic tuning ZS5 sound can be in the 45KHz band still maintain a certain sensitivity response, which is almost more than 95% of the market headphones can not do the level, _and 0% of human beings can hear. But pets will be able to enjoy tuning super #1._"

http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/HearingRange.html

So what good is having headphones that can produce 22-45KHz unless you're going to stick them in the ears of your pet, a bat, or a dolphin? I mean, c'mon - seriously?

Here's something interesting to try - use this test (http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php) and see how high you can hear. I would be shocked if anyone other than a young child can hear over 20KHz. Mine is 17KHz, which is really good based on my age according to this chart of hearing degradation by age:


----------



## nplateau

I ordered the blue ZS5 from NiceHCK on Ali.  I got it with the mic cable and silver cable.  I'll post my impressions whenever they arrive and compare them with the ZS3 and ZST.


----------



## WilliamCruz

nplateau said:


> I ordered the blue ZS5 from NiceHCK on Ali.  I got it with the mic cable and silver cable.  I'll post my impressions whenever they arrive and compare them with the ZS3 and ZST.


damm. i want both cables :/


----------



## Slater

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> damm. i want both cables :/



Well, don't get the gold cables. There are already reports of QC issues with the gold cables.


----------



## bhazard

Got my preorder in for the ZS5 at NiceHCK.


----------



## nplateau

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> damm. i want both cables :/



If you look at the options from NiceHCK, ordering with both cables only costs $7 more.  I figured for a few bucks more I'd get both cables.  Btw, NiceHCK doesn't seem to show any of the gold cables, though another seller on Ali does.


----------



## Slater

nplateau said:


> If you look at the options from NiceHCK, ordering with both cables only costs $7 more.  I figured for a few bucks more I'd get both cables.  Btw, NiceHCK doesn't seem to show any of the gold cables, though another seller on Ali does.



There are reports of QC issues with the gold cables: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...phones-and-iems.820747/page-591#post-13480398


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 10, 2017)

Vidal said:


> Wow, big change in opinion one post you're recommending them.
> 
> Then slating them, why the change of heart?



I take that back. I still recommend the KZ IE7 (5 left on Ali), it's just that we need to buy new tips, making the price almost double. I find the only tips that come with it that are Large, actually don't have a good seal. When I push the headphones deeper into my ear the sound gets much better. These headphones are a must have, if you can handle all the negatives (news tips, weak construction, etc) and the pricey cost.


----------



## nplateau

slaterlovesspam said:


> There are reports of QC issues with the gold cables: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...phones-and-iems.820747/page-591#post-13480398



I sure hope that NiceHCK then sends me just the cables they have shown and not any of that gold stuff.  Btw, I did your ZS3 mod, taking out the little bit of foam but then replacing red filter.  I don't know if it's just psychological or not, but my impressions are that the ZS3 sounds even more fantastic than before.  The highs are a bit more sharp for sure and the sound is more forward so some of the laid-back smoothness is gone, but I find the overall balance of the sound signature to be far better.


----------



## ephrank

Ordered ZS5 from taobao. Fingers crossed the housing isn't too big. Certainly look big in the renders


----------



## WilliamCruz

all of the listings are just pre order i guess


----------



## Slater

nplateau said:


> I sure hope that NiceHCK then sends me just the cables they have shown and not any of that gold stuff.  Btw, I did your ZS3 mod, taking out the little bit of foam but then replacing red filter.  I don't know if it's just psychological or not, but my impressions are that the ZS3 sounds even more fantastic than before.  The highs are a bit more sharp for sure and the sound is more forward so some of the laid-back smoothness is gone, but I find the overall balance of the sound signature to be far better.



Well, if you do receive the gold ones, check them out thoroughly and contact the seller if there are any issues. I've bought from that seller before (as have many others on HF), and they seem to have good customer service.

As far as the ZS3, it's definitely not just psychological. The removal of the foam definitely cleans up some of the shortcomings of the ZS3 (mainly the bloated bass). And if you noticed bit sharper highs, it's a good thing that you kept the red screen. Because removing the red screen increases the brightness. Not to an uncomfortable level (for me anyways) - the ZST and ED9 is WAY brighter (to the point where it can get painful).

You're right though, removal of the foam does remove a bit of the smoothness (but adds detail/clarity). But smoothness is kind of inversely related to clarity -  it's like using the smoothing tool vs a sharpening tool in a photo editor. Smoothing looks nice and hides flaws, but at the expense of detail.

I do prefer smoothness whenever I'm listening to lower quality audio, because it's very forgiving - the Rock Zircon and VJJB K4 are the smoothest in-ears I have. I can listen to 128kbps mp3 and they sound really good. But there's no detail or clarity.


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> I would be shocked if anyone other than a young child can hear over 20KHz. Mine is 17KHz, which is really good based on my age according to this chart of hearing degradation by age:
> 
> Mine is probably between 17khz and 16khz which considering I'm mid forties is fairly decent, I think. I'm tempted to jump on the ZS5 train straight away but given that the prices will drop a bit, I don't need the extra frequency and the last two KZ releases have seen QC issues I'm going to let others be guinea pigs this time.


----------



## Slater (Oct 3, 2017)

So now that I made improvements to the ZS3, I thought I'd tackle the ZST.

It's one of my *least* favorite KZ IEMs, due to its shrill ear-piercing treble. It can actually get painful depending on the song I'm listening to, so they've sat unused pretty much since I got them. I figured I'd take a crack at modding them, since I really had nothing to lose.

I thought I would share my findings, since I know there are many others that also dislike the ZST due to its piercing highs.

It dawned on me while doing the ZS3 mod that I could possibly use foam to tune the ZST. However, I didn't want to block any sound from the dynamic driver, so I had to be careful how I went about making changes. I only wanted to address the treble, which meant only tinkering with the BA driver that's mounted right at the nozzle opening.

I stumbled upon a wonderful article from Tyll @ InnerFidelity (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-balanced-armature-receiversdrivers-work). After getting an understanding of how BA drivers work, I saw that some BA drivers are fine tuned through the use of filter material in their tip. Eureka!

Since the foam was the easiest thing to try, I used that 1st. And low and behold it did the trick! The mod is simple, only takes a few minutes, and is completely reversible.

How does it affect the sound? *There's still plenty of treble (but the treble is buttery smooth after the mod), and all of the shrillness that was present before is gone. I can listen to the ZST for hours now with no pain or fatigue. And there is no impact on the luscious bass and midrange that the ZST has. This thing went from my 2nd least-favorite KZ IEM to one of my top 5.* So if you're one of those people like me that disliked their ZST, give this simple mod a try. You have nothing to lose.

1. You'll need a small piece of *open-celled* (acoustic) foam. You can get the foam from a number of places:

An old foam earbud cover (new is best, not used and crusty)
From the inside of an old full-size headphone earpad
The foam that protects a lot of items during shipping (mostly electronic and computer products). It's got peaks and valleys arranged like a bunch of pyramids.
The "tear off foam cubes" inside of Pelican and other hard cases
The foam used for acoustic soundproofing tiles used in sound rooms, recording studios, etc (usually has peaks and valleys arranged like a bunch of pyramids, or sometimes alternating grids of long triangular tube shapes).
The small pieces of foam you removed from the plastic tube of the ZS3's nozzle for the "ZS3 Slater Mod"
The inside foam from the KZ headphone hard case (which incidentally is the EXACT same foam KZ used inside of the ZS3 LOL). *<<This is the foam I used as seen below>>*.
When I say you only need a SMALL piece, I mean REALLY SMALL (I trimmed a much-larger-than-needed piece from the corner of my KZ hard case as you can see below):


  

2. Now that you have your tiny piece of foam, it's time to cut it down into (2) near-microscopic sized pieces.

You know the writing on the side of the ZST that says "ZST - HIFI Armature"? *Cut it to the exact same size as the word "HIFI" written on the side of the shell* (same height, same length).

It's important to cut both pieces the same size, or else you may end up with a minor treble imbalance between the 2 sides.

You end up with a ridiculously small piece, like about 1/3 the size of a single grain of rice. Look at it in relationship to the date on a penny and a pencil lead:

 

3. Now that you have your foam pieces, take a sewing needle and CAREFULLY pop off the metal screen on the end of the ZST nozzle. Pry it up from an edge, but be very gentle, because the mesh could mangle and deform if you man-handle it with too much forceful poking from the needle. They're held on with a very weak gooey adhesive, and come off easily. Both of my mesh screens came off perfectly with no damage:

 

4. Now you'll be able to see the BA driver in the very end of the ZST's plastic nozzle.

At the very end of the BA driver itself is a little 'hole' - that's the BA driver's nozzle, which is where we'll be inserting the foam pieces. Just tuck a little bit of the foam inside the end of the BA driver nozzle using the tweezers (you're only trying to get it started in the hole). Next, take your sewing needle and carefully tuck the rest of the foam down inside of the tip of the BA driver. Don't jam the crap out of it in with the needle or you may damage the BA driver - just tuck it in (using the needle) with barely any pressure and to hardly any depth (we're talking 1-2 millimeters here folks). 

It may take a few tries with the tweezers and needle, but it will go in no problem. It will be helpful to have really good eyes (or a magnifying glass) and bright light to illuminate everything. If you have poor close up vision, have someone with good eyes and steady hands help - the opening of the BA driver is barely larger than a "." on a piece of paper!

If you've done it correctly, here's what you'll end up with:

*Partially Inserted:*


*Partially Inserted Closeup:*

*
Fully Inserted:*

*
Fully Inserted Closeup:*


5. Once the foam is fully inserted inside the tip of both BA drivers, take your tweezers & replace the mesh nozzle screens back into the ZST nozzle. The gooey adhesive around the inside edge will keep the mesh screen in place with no additional glue needed. All you have to do is lay the mesh inside the end, make sure it's centered & doesn't overhang any part of the rim of the nozzle, and then gently push on it with your finger to get it to stick securely.

6. Put your ear tips back on, and reinstall the cables (making sure to insert them in the proper direction by paying attention to the rounded vs flat keyway of the plug and socket). If you insert one of both backwards you will end up with phasing issues and/or the plugs be loose and fall off during use. Here's a photo illustrating the correct orientation:


That's it; you're all done!

Total time from start to finish is under 10 minutes.

If for whatever reason you don't like the mod, you can easily remove the foam from the BA driver by plucking the foam with the sewing needle and removing it completely with the tweezers.

Let me know if you have any questions.

- Slater


----------



## CoiL (May 10, 2017)

Paulo099 said:


> I'm looking for a bluetooth earphone that has a neutral or slightly warm sound. Is the KZ HDSE good for that? Or should I buy a KZ ZST with a bluetooth cable?



nvm.... I skipped the bluetooth part, ATE hasn`t got it.


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> So now that I made improvements to the ZS3, I thought I'd tackle the ZST.
> 
> It's one of my *least* favorite KZ IEMs, due to its shrill ear-piercing treble. It can actually get painful depending on the song I'm listening to, so they've sat unused pretty much since I got them. I figured I'd take a crack at modding them, since I really had nothing to lose.
> 
> ...



Thanks for trying out the mod but I think with such tiny pieces and different foam material density, it is hard to get consistent results for different users. Better to order BA dampers from AE or somewhere else and try them out.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Thanks for trying out the mod but I think with such tiny pieces and different foam material density, it is hard to get consistent results for different users. Better to order BA dampers from AE or somewhere else and try them out.



True, but unfortunately there's not enough room for a damper. The nozzle of the BA driver is almost directly against the mesh screen.

Also, the KZ hard case can be ordered from a number of sources for a little over $1, providing the exact same foam I used (as well as giving an excellent case to store the ZST in). And if one trims the foam using the word HIFI as a guide (which is a consistent measuring guide between all of our ZSTs), then the results will basically be the same as mine (or at least very very close).


----------



## nplateau

slaterlovesspam said:


> I do prefer smoothness whenever I'm listening to lower quality audio, because it's very forgiving - the Rock Zircon and VJJB K4 are the smoothest in-ears I have. I can listen to 128kbps mp3 and they sound really good. But there's no detail or clarity.



Absolutely!  The more resolving the phone, the worse bad quality files sound.  I think that's a mistake a lot of people make, thinking better phones will make poor recordings sound better.  Usually it's quite the opposite.


----------



## SpiderNhan

GearBest is doing a KZ flash sale today for the ZST and ZS3.



George-gearbest said:


> Gearbest Brands Flash Sale promotion link: http://www.gearbest.com/flash-sale.html
> 
> 1. KZ ZST Dynamic HiFi Bass Music Sport In Ear Stereo Earphones  -  BLACK
> 
> ...


----------



## Slater

SpiderNhan said:


> GearBest is doing a KZ flash sale today for the ZST and ZS3.



$5.99 for the ZS3 is a great deal. Do the foam mod & you have a very capable, comfortable, and great sounding IEM, especially for bass heads.


----------



## Enn Jott

That modification makes all the difference in the world - it made the ZST finally (really really) enjoyable for me. i can highly recommend to try it as well, be careful though - i went through a series of unfortunate events during the mod:

everything fine at first - left side seemed a litte more quiet - so i went through the steps again, but it was difficult to remove to foam in the BA at first. next it was somewhat harder to get it in again and i pushed a litte too much and pushed the BA (way) further into the housing (not in the nozzle anymore - no difference in sound though). so far so good. next i had a loose connection on the left side - one of the female 2pin connectors was missing. it turned out it was pushed into the housing of ne earpiece when i opened it. the 2-pin-connector was damaged when i opened it and i had to glue it together again. next the outer shell of the housing could not be simply put on again as it wouldn't really fit. so i had to glue it on as well. it looks terrible if you look closely but it works... 

as of now i really enjoy the "new" tuned ZST sound. no sharp treble at all. it actually sounds like a different IEM. i still have to listen some more. At least i can use my ZSTs now...


----------



## Slater

Enn Jott said:


> That modification makes all the difference in the world - it made the ZST finally (really really) enjoyable for me. i can highly recommend to try it as well, be careful though - i went through a series of unfortunate events during the mod:
> 
> everything fine at first - left side seemed a litte more quiet - so i went through the steps again, but it was difficult to remove to foam in the BA at first. next it was somewhat harder to get it in again and i pushed a litte too much and pushed the BA (way) further into the housing (not in the nozzle anymore - no difference in sound though). so far so good. next i had a loose connection on the left side - one of the female 2pin connectors was missing. it turned out it was pushed into the housing of ne earpiece when i opened it. the 2-pin-connector was damaged when i opened it and i had to glue it together again. next the outer shell of the housing could not be simply put on again as it wouldn't really fit. so i had to glue it on as well. it looks terrible if you look closely but it works...
> 
> as of now i really enjoy the "new" tuned ZST sound. no sharp treble at all. it actually sounds like a different IEM. i still have to listen some more. At least i can use my ZSTs now...



Wow, that sounds like quite the adventure. Glad you got it done though, & thanks for reporting in with your impressions. For those of us that disliked the ZST, it turns it into a really enjoyable & easy to listen to earphone.

What foam did you end up using for the mod?

Any changes I should make to my guide to make it easier to follow or reduce the chances of any problems? I think the hardest part is just how small everything is, but there's nothing that can be done about that. Also making sure that you have the right tools (namely a sewing needle and really fine pointy tweezers - really no way around that).


----------



## actorlife (May 10, 2017)

Darn Slater you and some peeps must have gotten a bad copy. I'm not getting anything like the ED9 bronze one. It's a Very Very Neutral sound with the original tips they came with. If you wanna hear piercing sound you gotta hear those Joyroom I ordered. I'm guessing there were a couple of version of the ZST? Dang I Forget haha how good these are since acquiring those other phones I love.


----------



## Slater

actorlife said:


> Darn Slater you and some peeps must have gotten a bad copy. I'm not getting anything like the ED9 bronze one. It's a Very Very Neutral sound with the original tips they came with.



I don't think it's a QC issue. There's just too many people that dislike the highs on the ZST. I just think it's the particular BA driver that some people are overly sensitive to, because everyone's ears are different. Luckily, the fix is easy enough to perform.


----------



## hoerlurar

the $5.99 zs3 units went (too) quick from the flashsale.
i ordered a $9.99 colorful zst though, thinking i'd compare it to my original, and then try modding one of them.


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## actorlife (May 10, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I don't think it's a QC issue. There's just too many people that dislike the highs on the ZST. I just think it's the particular BA driver that some people are overly sensitive to, because everyone's ears are different. Luckily, the fix is easy enough to perform.


Not sure I'm sensitive with treble and my ZST have nothing fatiguing about them. I'm shocked so many people have issues and glad you're helping them out. I certainly love the ZS3 NOW.  Bravisimo slater.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

hoerlurar said:


> the $5.99 zs3 units went (too) quick from the flashsale.
> i ordered a $9.99 colorful zst though, thinking i'd compare it to my original, and then try modding one of them.


I was planning to pick up a spare ZS3.  5.99 was a crazy price.  Went so fast though, haha.


----------



## Paulo099

slaterlovesspam said:


> Reports on the ZST BT cable are about 3 hrs of play time. Plus you have the sound of, well, the ZST. It seems about 50/50 of people that like it/hate it.
> 
> My HDSE will be here any day. As soon as it arrives I'll post impressions.



Please do post an impression. I badly need a bluetooth headphone since my headphone jack is broken.


----------



## SpiderNhan

KZ sale is still going. Not quite as cheap as before but still great deals.


----------



## ricemanhk (May 10, 2017)

ZS5 ordered!  Blue and gold (which I think looks awesome!).  Also as the wire housing looks exactly like the ZS3 cable, and the silver one for that can be found easily, although that shop also sells the new gold cable separately with ZST and ZS3/ZS5 plugs.  BTW the comments on taobao about the wire quality, the way I read it the guy complained about the stock cable and then said the gold cable was much better.  But I'm hoping the stock cable with mic is ok, as they finally have the mic with volume up and down buttons! 

Weird though that the ZS5 isn't on the official KZ tmall site...but that taobao shop link posted earlier (thanks!) looks legit enough.

Also not sure why ZS3 is selling at almost double the price to ZST these days on taobao...


----------



## nplateau

I just spoke with Jim at NiceHCK.  He's offering a $10 pre-order discount on the ZS5.  So I cancelled my previous order and ordered again after the price adjustment.  $29 for the blue with the mic and silver cable.


----------



## 1clearhead

Guys, I just read more taobao comments on the ZS5 (translated by google translator)....

There is a lot more positive feedback than yesterday! One person calls them "the best KZ ever" another person said "these can easily cost a lot more, into the 1,000's (RMB's of course). 

....can't wait to get mine!


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> Guys, I just read more taobao comments on the ZS5 (translated by google translator)....
> 
> There is a lot more positive feedback than yesterday! One person calls them "the best KZ ever" another person said "these can easily cost a lot more, into the 1,000's (RMB's of course).
> 
> ....can't wait to get mine!



LOL just as it is on amazon, I always take positive feedback on taobao with many grains of salt.  Negative reviews are actually rare as taobao sellers can pay cash to buyers who are willing to delete/edit their negative reviews.  

The ZS5 was only selling since may 8, so all the feedback should be immediate out of box impressions for now.  Let's see who on head-fi will be the first to get theirs!


----------



## VinceHill24

I'm late to the ZS3 mod but i have to say slater's mod really does make a difference in my ZS3. Previously the bass was a bit too intense, boomy and a bit of bloat. Treble extension is there but is more laidback. After the mod, it seems to be attenuating some of the bass response resulting in lesser midbass, much more controlled with less to almost no bleed into midrange. The treble response seems to be accentuated by a little making them little more forward and the overall presentation is no longer dark but kinda sacrificing its previously smooth qualities. I don't think it'll be a good mod for treble sensitive user who's already enjoying ZS3 in its own.

I've replaced the red screen with a metal screen coz while removing the screen i kinda damaged it in the process, gotta protect inner driver from earwax so having a screen definitely improves usage span.



 

For ZST, i don't think i'll do the mod as it wasn't that ear hurtingly bright to me and i tend to agree with Coil about using dampening filters for the BA as it would result in better consistency and of course lesser chance of damage to the driver itself as we never know when would the cotton just drop in all the way into the inner workings of the BA driver that could possibly risk damaging its inner components. But it'd be a cost effective try anyway + ZST is not that expensive so if its value doesn't bother you much it ain't gonna hurt trying.

Personally i found foam tips helps tame down the brightness of ZST so i think it'd be great to give foam tips a try 1st.


----------



## 1clearhead

ricemanhk said:


> LOL just as it is on amazon, I always take positive feedback on taobao with many grains of salt.  Negative reviews are actually rare as taobao sellers can pay cash to buyers who are willing to delete/edit their negative reviews.
> 
> The ZS5 was only selling since may 8, so all the feedback should be immediate out of box impressions for now.  Let's see who on head-fi will be the first to get theirs!



Yea, true. ....I'm just trying to stay positive and eliminate some of the grains of salt and see if "KZ" got it right this time. I'm crossing my fingers and toes for this model. Hopefully, I'll get mines by Sunday....I hope.


----------



## ephrank

Since there are reviews on taobao already, I assume ZS5 are in stock, not presale?


----------



## hoerlurar

Paulo099 said:


> Please do post an impression. I badly need a bluetooth headphone since my headphone jack is broken.



I didn't like the KZ HDSE very much, I've been recommending the QCY QY19 instead, as i'm very happy with them. they're $17.99 right now: http://www.gearbest.com/sports-fitness-headphones/pp_368033.html


----------



## RKC1

So from suggestions i think kz zs3 is best bass headphone /?...and what what about rock zircon against kz zs3 ?..or any other suggestions..??


----------



## Slater (May 11, 2017)

RKC1 said:


> So from suggestions i think kz zs3 is best bass headphone /?...and what what about rock zircon against kz zs3 ?..or any other suggestions..??



"Best" is a relative term. Best for what? It's not the 'best' out of every available IEM from any manufacturer, nor the 'best' KZ ever (although it's *one* of the 'best' KZs). It is definitely the 'best' between the Zircon and the ZS3 though.

I love my Zircons (white version is better than the black in terms of overall sound), and the Zircon has more 'booming' bass *quantity* than the ZS3. That's what the Zircon does better than any other in-ear I own - skull crushing bass.

But the ZS3 w/foam mod absolutely destroys the Zircon in ever other category - bass quality, mids, treble, build quality, cable quality (removable/replaceable/upgradeable too), microphonics, comfort, and price (ZS3 half the price of the Zircon).

Bassheads will definitely approve. With the foam mod, it has 80-85% of the bass quantity of the Zircon, but without the bass being boomy and bloated. If you want that last bit of boom & added smoothness (but with some bloated bass), just don't do the foam mod (which no foam mod bumps it to about 90% of the bass *quantity* of the Zircon).

You can't go wrong with the ZS3 (modded or not, it sounds good either way). At it's current sale price of $7.99, it's a no brainer. At the $5.99 it was selling for a day go, it's downright criminal.


----------



## ricemanhk

ephrank said:


> Since there are reviews on taobao already, I assume ZS5 are in stock, not presale?



Yep.  Taobao sellers have them in stock.  
Ali and others should have them very soon, if not in stock already.


----------



## Shuikit

I've just ordered some ZS5 from NiceHCK and also messaged Jim who did me $10 off, they are pre order.  Thanks nplateau for the heads up!


----------



## Drakis

Regarding the ZS3 mod, i removed the red grills and i cannot find any foam. One thing i noticed is that the red "funnel" doesn't stick outside that much and it's not at an angle that allows me to look inside (like in the mod pics).
I stick the needle as far as i could but as i can feel, it is only touching plastic.
I have the matte version of the ZS3, not the shinny one as in the mod pics.


----------



## WilliamCruz

Ordered my ZS5 From NiceHCK, very friendly seller. Highly recommended.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, wonder if this BT cable will fit the ZS5.  Forgot to check which 2 pin the ZS5 is using.


----------



## Podster

nplateau said:


> I just spoke with Jim at NiceHCK.  He's offering a $10 pre-order discount on the ZS5.  So I cancelled my previous order and ordered again after the price adjustment.  $29 for the blue with the mic and silver cable.



So was that with the mic version + silver cable?


----------



## Slater

Drakis said:


> Regarding the ZS3 mod, i removed the red grills and i cannot find any foam. One thing i noticed is that the red "funnel" doesn't stick outside that much and it's not at an angle that allows me to look inside (like in the mod pics).
> I stick the needle as far as i could but as i can feel, it is only touching plastic.
> I have the matte version of the ZS3, not the shinny one as in the mod pics.



That's odd. How old are they? I wasn't even aware they made a matte version.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Matte version was the original. Glossy came later.


----------



## actorlife

How many ZS3 and ZST version so far B9?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Only two of each that im aware of. Zs3 has the matte and glossy versions. Zst has the carbon-fiber and colorful versions. Zs3 cables have been revised with proper memory wire since release instead of the formed guides on mine. ZST possibly retuned to address early release complaints, but that's just speculation I think.


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> True, but unfortunately there's not enough room for a damper. The nozzle of the BA driver is almost directly against the mesh screen.



You can move BA deeper into nozzle


----------



## CoiL (May 11, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I don't think it's a QC issue. There's just too many people that dislike the highs on the ZST. I just think it's the particular BA driver that some people are overly sensitive to, because everyone's ears are different. Luckily, the fix is easy enough to perform.


+1

And ZST end result depends from source gear and files You are using them with. The more revealing "high-end" source You have, the more You notice peak in highs. Haven`t done the mod myself yet but will certainly do it because if that peak gets removed by mod, it will be the best overall SQ KZ IEM I have for sure. I will try to do some other tricks too and share feedback if I succeed "fine tuning" it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Does anyone notice any ear pressure problems from the ATR/ZS3/ZST? Like popping when placing the earphones in the canal?


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> Only two of each that im aware of. Zs3 has the matte and glossy versions. Zst has the carbon-fiber and colorful versions. Zs3 cables have been revised with proper memory wire since release instead of the formed guides on mine. ZST possibly retuned to address early release complaints, but that's just speculation I think.



Where can I get the newest ZS3 ? 
Is the glossy one newest? Which is better fit (lock), matte?
GB flash sale is newest version of ZS3 ?


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does anyone notice any ear pressure problems from the ATR/ZS3/ZST? Like popping when placing the earphones in the canal?



You are using too big sized tips? Maybe getting driver flex?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> You are using too big sized tips? Maybe getting driver flex?



Never thought of that. I'll try new tips.

I noticed that the ZST ear pieces don't have L or R on them, but the cables do, I guess which ear piece goes where doesn't matter?


----------



## SpiderNhan

CoiL said:


> Where can I get the newest ZS3 ?
> Is the glossy one newest? Which is better fit (lock), matte?
> GB flash sale is newest version of ZS3 ?


I bought my ZS3 from GearBest in March and received the glossy version and got a replacement in April that was also glossy. There is no way choose between finishes AFAIK.


----------



## SpiderNhan

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I noticed that the ZST ear pieces don't have L or R on them, but the cables do, I guess which ear piece goes where doesn't matter?


The left and right earpieces are both shaped differently. With the cable connector pointed up and slightly in the direction you're facing the nozzles will each point in the correct position in relation to your ears.

The L and R markings should both face outward.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Never thought of that. I'll try new tips.
> 
> I noticed that the ZST ear pieces don't have L or R on them, but the cables do, I guess which ear piece goes where doesn't matter?



It does, because the bud is shaped differently.


----------



## wastan

VinceHill24 said:


> I'm late to the ZS3 mod but i have to say slater's mod really does make a difference in my ZS3. Previously the bass was a bit too intense, boomy and a bit of bloat. Treble extension is there but is more laidback. After the mod, it seems to be attenuating some of the bass response resulting in lesser midbass, much more controlled with less to almost no bleed into midrange. The treble response seems to be accentuated by a little making them little more forward and the overall presentation is no longer dark but kinda sacrificing its previously smooth qualities. I don't think it'll be a good mod for treble sensitive user who's already enjoying ZS3 in its own.
> 
> I've replaced the red screen with a metal screen coz while removing the screen i kinda damaged it in the process, gotta protect inner driver from earwax so having a screen definitely improves usage span.
> 
> ...



Where did you get the screen?


----------



## Saoshyant

I can't remember, was there a chance in pin size for the ZS3 changes, or did it remain the same when they went from matte to glossy?


----------



## Slater

wastan said:


> Where did you get the screen?



I get mine from here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...sh-3-8mm-4mm-4-2mm-4-7mm-5mm/32800734441.html

They're ridiculously cheap - less than $1 for 10. I always get the assortment of sizes, but if you know exactly what size you need just specify. I've used them a number of times now, both on multiple different IEMs and also as a dust screen on the inside of headphones and IEM shells when I drill new vents.

There's already adhesive applied - you simply peel & stick.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Matte version was the original. Glossy came later.



So was the matte version the defective one that came with the crushed sound tube?


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> You can move BA deeper into nozzle



Mine were glued in there with a generous helping of glue. I'd be afraid if I tried to move it lower I would risk damaging the driver. Not worth it IMO. It would also change the sound moving it lower. While it may change the sound in a positive way (negating the need for the foam filter), I'm perfectly happy with my foam filter mod. It's doing exactly what I hoped it would do, was free, and it was easy to get consistent pieces trimmed to size with scissors. No mismatches from side-to-side either, as verified with multiple high frequency sweeps. Even Steven!

Thanks for the idea though - it's good to know that's an option for down the road if I ever need to mod any other hybrids.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> So was the matte version the defective one that came with the crushed sound tube?



I would expect so. I was supposed to get a set from that batch but when KZ recalled them the seller redacted my order asking if I wanted a refund or was willing to wait for them to be fixed. Obviously I waited.

​


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> I would expect so. I was supposed to get a set from that batch but when KZ recalled them the seller redacted my order asking if I wanted a refund or was willing to wait for them to be fixed. Obviously I waited.



So what type were the replacements you received? Matte or Shiny?

And if matte, would you be willing to peek under the mesh screen and see if yours has the black foam stuffed inside the plastic tube?


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> So what type were the replacements you received? Matte or Shiny?
> 
> And if matte, would you be willing to peek under the mesh screen and see if yours has the black foam stuffed inside the plastic tube?



Matte (hence the pic above). Nope, sorry, not taking the screen off. Don't trust myself not to ruin them.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Matte (hence the pic above). Nope, sorry, not taking the screen off. Don't trust myself not to ruin them.



Sorry, I didn't notice that.

OK, no problem. Just curious, as mine are both shiny. Thanks anyways.


----------



## chinmie

regarding the ZS3, i've read in my local forum someone compring the sound of the matte (the older model) to the glossy (newer model). the matte has less bass, more forward mids and treble. 
if @Drakis said he couldn't find any foam in the matte version, maybe it confirms that the foam removal mod on the glossy ones will make it sound like the matte version?


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sorry, I didn't notice that.
> 
> OK, no problem. Just curious, as mine are both shiny. Thanks anyways.



No worries


----------



## Slater

chinmie said:


> regarding the ZS3, i've read in my local forum someone compring the sound of the matte (the older model) to the glossy (newer model). the matte has less bass, more forward mids and treble.
> if @Drakis said he couldn't find any foam in the matte version, maybe it confirms that the foam removal mod on the glossy ones will make it sound like the matte version?



Wow, sure sounds like it! Interesting indeed. And if it turns out to be true, here's yet another case of KZ quietly tweaking a model without publicizing it.

Hopefully I can find a few more people to look inside of their matte units, so we can verify that they're all indeed missing the black foam (@actorlife is the only verified case so far).


----------



## Toulouse

Just received the silver cable upgrade. Is there a way to tell which connector is the right and which is the left?


----------



## Slater

Toulouse said:


> Just received the silver cable upgrade. Is there a way to tell which connector is the right and which is the left



It's molded onto the ends of the cable. It's REALLY hard to see. There's a tiny, tiny R and L on 1 side of each of the ends.

Also, make sure that once you do identify the R & L, that you also plug them in the correct direction. There's a small curve on 1 end that's easy to miss.

Like in this photo:


----------



## peskypesky

slaterlovesspam said:


> Like in this photo:



that's not a photo!

you can't fool me.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> that's not a photo!
> 
> you can't fool me.



haha, OK you got me. "Crudely drawn scribble" LOL


----------



## ricemanhk

There was a post asking earlier, the ZS5 uses the same housing as the ZS3.  These are standard UE 0.75mm dual pins, but the housing itself has a proprietary shaped connector that's shown in wonderful detail by slater's picture i mean scribble.

If the BT cable works with ZS3, it will work with ZS5.  ZST and ED12 meanwhile uses the same 0.75mm pins but a slightly bigger housing and so are not compatible with ZS3/ZS5.


----------



## Slater (May 12, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I get mine from here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...sh-3-8mm-4mm-4-2mm-4-7mm-5mm/32800734441.html
> 
> They're ridiculously cheap - less than $1 for 10. I always get the assortment of sizes, but if you know exactly what size you need just specify. I've used them a number of times now, both on multiple different IEMs and also as a dust screen on the inside of headphones and IEM shells when I drill new vents.
> 
> There's already adhesive applied - you simply peel & stick.



In case anyone cares about these mesh nozzle screens, the ZS3 uses the 4.0mm size.

I was uncomfortable rolling with no screen at all (I had removed the red filter), so I added the stainless mesh screen to protect from earwax. I've noticed no sound difference with the stainless screen vs no screen at all. I assume that's because the mesh on the stainless screen is much coarser vs the stock red screen (which is a extremely fine/restrictive fabric; probably nylon).

If it would interest anyone, I can use calipers & measure all of my IEMs and list what size screens they all use as well. Because occasionally those screens do fall off or need to be replaced from time to time.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 12, 2017)

KZ-ATR IEM's are amazing! I think they are my favorites out of my ED9, ZS3, ZST, IE7 (worst)...

I can't believe I only paid $6.50 US for them. In 2017, I've spent over $300.00's on headphones, and I wish I only bought the ATR's!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ-ATR IEM's are amazing! I think they are my favorites out of my ED9, ZS3, ZST, IE7 (worst)...
> 
> I can't believe I only paid $6.50 US for them. In 2017, I've spent over $300.00's on headphones, and I wish I only bought the ATR's!


Seems like quite a bit of a stretch imo lol.

Glad they're working out for you.


----------



## ricemanhk

More details on the ZS5 from the taobao store and chatting with their staff.  Apparently it's been 14 months in the making...and the main KZ tmall store isn't selling yet as they are still ramping up production...that shop already sold out the initial batch of blue ones, but new shipments should be coming in this weekend already.

For the drivers: 10mm DD + 6.4mm DD, 30095 BA for super high freq plus a custom 1205 BA for high freq.
Not sure why they need to sell the 45 kHz sensitivity tho, maybe it's actually for my dog? LOL

New mic with volume controls seems to be able to support ios only...shucks.  They say they tried it on an OPPO phone, volume control didn't work.  Let's see when I get mine...it's strange tho as generally these Chi-Fi tend to support android first rather than pay the extra fees to get ios control.


----------



## Toulouse

slaterlovesspam said:


> It's molded onto the ends of the cable. It's REALLY hard to see. There's a tiny, tiny R and L on 1 side of each of the ends.
> 
> Also, make sure that once you do identify the R & L, that you also plug them in the correct direction. There's a small curve on 1 end that's easy to miss.
> 
> Like in this photo:


Thank you for the info and for the not-a-photo photo.


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> More details on the ZS5 from the taobao store and chatting with their staff.  Apparently it's been 14 months in the making...and the main KZ tmall store isn't selling yet as they are still ramping up production...that shop already sold out the initial batch of blue ones, but new shipments should be coming in this weekend already.
> 
> For the drivers: 10mm DD + 6.4mm DD, 30095 BA for super high freq plus a custom 1205 BA for high freq.
> Not sure why they need to sell the 45 kHz sensitivity tho, maybe it's actually for my dog? LOL
> ...


 Support IOS only ?! They can't be kidding me. When all the audiophile grade smartphone are android based and they decided to make a mic that works for iphone only. Might as well have gone for the non-mic version as it's cheaper


----------



## Drakis

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's odd. How old are they? I wasn't even aware they made a matte version.



I bought mine from banned seller in Aliexpress on November 11th sale.


----------



## ricemanhk

VinceHill24 said:


> Support IOS only ?! They can't be kidding me. When all the audiophile grade smartphone are android based and they decided to make a mic that works for iphone only. Might as well have gone for the non-mic version as it's cheaper



The mic and center button will always work for all phones, it's just the volume buttons but that's still TBC.  I've heard OPPO phones don't always implement the same method for inline volume controls...likewise some samsung phones as well. Let's wait and see when we actually get them in our hands...


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> The mic and center button will always work for all phones, it's just the volume buttons but that's still TBC.  I've heard OPPO phones don't always implement the same method for inline volume controls...likewise some samsung phones as well. Let's wait and see when we actually get them in our hands...


Ya, i think it applies to certain of the China brand phones if nkt mistaken as i commonly heard mic with volume controls that supports android device often does not support certain Chinese brand Smartphone like oppo vivo zte etc. Feels like it's going to be a long long wait before most of us here get it...


----------



## loomisjohnson

as i end my thoroughly enjoyable kz journey, i offer a few parting shots:
1. i know they're polarizing, but to me the ed9 still ranks supreme and the only kz which genuinely can compete, in terms of refinement/build, with exponentially more expensive pieces.
2. the zst has held up very well and certainly reigns supreme in the super-budget hybrid class, tho i can't honestly rank it as high as the urbanfun, bosshifi b3 or magaosi offerings.
3. the ed10, which scrambler praises, do many things better than the foregoing,  tho for some reason i don't feel compelled to reach for them very often
4. my initial praise for the zs3 may have been a bit overheated--they are one dark iem and still a bit lacking in air and extension. still tons of fun and their vault-like isolation is awesome.
5. the hds3 and edse are scarcely reference-quality audiophile tools, but remain a blast.
thanks for listening.


----------



## Drakis

loomisjohnson said:


> as i end my thoroughly enjoyable kz journey, i offer a few parting shots:
> ...
> 4. my initial praise for the zs3 may have been a bit overheated--they are one dark iem and still a bit lacking in air and extension. still tons of fun and their vault-like isolation is awesome.
> ...



Quite true. I got to the point were i cannot listen to them anymore. Way too dark for me! I prefer the KZ ATE (similar sound, more airy).


----------



## Vidal

@loomisjohnson That sounds like a very final post, are you not planning to try anymore KZs in the future?


----------



## Andrzej Cichy

ricemanhk said:


> There was a post asking earlier, the ZS5 uses the same housing as the ZS3.  These are standard UE 0.75mm dual pins, but the housing itself has a proprietary shaped connector that's shown in wonderful detail by slater's picture i mean scribble.
> 
> If the BT cable works with ZS3, it will work with ZS5.  ZST and ED12 meanwhile uses the same 0.75mm pins but a slightly bigger housing and so are not compatible with ZS3/ZS5.




I have got KZ ZST and KZ ZS3. I use the same 'silver cable upgraded' for both od them. They have the same link (2pin 0,75) that's for sure
.


----------



## Saoshyant (May 12, 2017)

chinmie said:


> regarding the ZS3, i've read in my local forum someone compring the sound of the matte (the older model) to the glossy (newer model). the matte has less bass, more forward mids and treble.
> if @Drakis said he couldn't find any foam in the matte version, maybe it confirms that the foam removal mod on the glossy ones will make it sound like the matte version?



Does anyone have both versions?  If not, while the flash sale is still going I could order the glossy and give it a listen.

Also, interesting that the silver cable fits both ZST & ZS3, as my ZS3 cable doesn't fit my ZST.  I think the pins might be too big.


----------



## ricemanhk

Saoshyant said:


> Does anyone have both versions?  If not, while the flash sale is still going I could order the glossy and give it a listen.
> 
> Also, interesting that the silver cable fits both ZST & ZS3, as my ZS3 cable doesn't fit my ZST.  I think the pins might be too big.



Both versions are supposed to be the same, just cosmetic differences.  Same as the ZST carbon vs colorful.
Of course, there could be batch variations...

The pins are the same diameter, just the wire housing (holding the pins) that are different.  ZS3 plug technically fits ZST as it's smaller, but it'll be loose as just the pins will fit.  ZST plug is too big for ZS3 and won't fit at all.


----------



## Saoshyant

ricemanhk said:


> Both versions are supposed to be the same, just cosmetic differences.  Same as the ZST carbon vs colorful.
> Of course, there could be batch variations...
> 
> The pins are the same diameter, just the wire housing (holding the pins) that are different.  ZS3 plug technically fits ZST as it's smaller, but it'll be loose as just the pins will fit.  ZST plug is too big for ZS3 and won't fit at all.



For me, the ZS3 pins don't fit the ZST whatsoever.  I know I ordered the ZS3 right as it came out, so mine's probably first batch, perhaps before they fixed the issues.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Here's another Bluetooth solution for us Chi-Fi'ers. If you don't mind the neckband aesthetic, this thing will get you 10 hours of playtime.

https://www.jlabaudio.com/products/gravity-bluetooth-neckband-adaptor-earbuds


----------



## trollin863 (May 12, 2017)

Im very close to getting my 1st pair of kz iems thanks to Scramblers recommendation as well as his detailed and helpful review on the zs3s.

Was thinking of getting 2 pairs of zs3s theyre only 8 bucks but maybe just get 1 pair and play it safe. Are they regularly on sale for this price?! Should I get the upgraded cable as well? Im not bass sensitive and from what I read the silver cable lessens bass.

Another thought I had was should I just skip ahead to the newest model the zs5? Seems not enough reputable head fiers have this newest model in hand though to make an accurate comparison.

Also my favorite tip thus far is the sony hybrid medium size hopefully the zs3/zs5 works well with hybrid tips.

I havent really had an over the ear iem before besides the ttpod but I shouldnt have an issue adjusting to it.

Think my best bet is just to get the one pair of zs3s and by the time I recieve them and try them out, there will be plenty of reviews on the zs5 and at that point I can grab a pair of those as well if they test well with the trusted head fiers here


----------



## loomisjohnson

Vidal said:


> @loomisjohnson That sounds like a very final post, are you not planning to try anymore KZs in the future?


it's sorta like my john coltrane records--they're all good, but there's a lot of them and if i hover around them i miss out on the uniquitous other stuff pouring out. +, as you know as well as anyone, some of these other budget contenders like einsear and boarseman are zooming to the top the heap.


----------



## peskypesky

loomisjohnson said:


> it's sorta like my john coltrane records--they're all good, but there's a lot of them and if i hover around them i miss out on the uniquitous other stuff pouring out. +, as you know as well as anyone, some of these other budget contenders like einsear and boarseman are zooming to the top the heap.


I just saw the new John Coltrane documentary in the theater a couple of weeks ago. Definitely worth seeing. But the man was so productive they could only give a sketch of his output.


----------



## trollin863 (May 12, 2017)

Any USA residents order your kz zs3s from GearBest before? I know GB is legit but im a little concerned on the potential shipping time and cost.

I have in fact ordered from a similar chinese company called fasttech because im big into ecigarettes and vaping (which is why I know GB is legit ive heard of them from the vaping community)

I typically get my fasttech orders in 3 weeks or less. If GB takes longer than 3 weeks obviously I should go with FT im thinking. Also I dont know if GB charges for shipping and what their rates are to the USA, whereas FT has free shipping for all their items.

On FT though there is a standard version and microphone version... is there any difference other than the obvious that one has a mic?

standard:
https://m.fasttech.com/p/6066701

microphone version:
https://m.fasttech.com/p/6066700


There is a 10% off code as well so the price is relatively close to GB the code is ILOVEMOM for anyone interested which brings the price of the standard version to 8.40 usd, and the microphone version to 9.12. Now if GB charges 1-2 dollars for their cheapest shipping then FT would be the cheapest option. Again though have no idea of GBs shipping rates as I have never ordered from them, couldnt find much info hoping someone can enlighten me....




Thanks


----------



## SpiderNhan

trollin863 said:


> Any USA residents order your kz zs3s from GearBest before? I know GB is legit but im a little concerned on the potential shipping time and cost.
> 
> I have in fact ordered from a similar chinese company called fasttech because im big into ecigarettes and vaping (which is why I know GB is legit ive heard of them from the vaping community)
> 
> ...


GearBest has free shipping and you can pay a couple dollars more if want it quicker. I always opt for the faster shipping and usually get my stuff in 2 weeks.

They have amazing customer service and sent me a replacement pair of ZS3 for free when I told them I had a channel imbalance. Turns out the imbalance was due to shape of my ears, not the IEMs, but I wouldn't have figured that out if not for the free 2nd pair.


----------



## trollin863

Cool. Yea I knew they were legit just couldnt find many experiences of shipping time etc. Will definitely take advantage of the flash sale then. Might grab a pair of the kz atrs too for 5 bucks. 

One more thing wheres the best place to pick up the silver upgrade cable and is it worth it?

Appreciate the help


----------



## SpiderNhan

trollin863 said:


> Cool. Yea I knew they were legit just couldnt find many experiences of shipping time etc. Will definitely take advantage of the flash sale then. Might grab a pair of the kz atrs too for 5 bucks.
> 
> One more thing wheres the best place to pick up the silver upgrade cable and is it worth it?
> 
> Appreciate the help


Well, if you want it quickly then Amazon will ship it to you in 2 days.

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZS3-Upgrade-Replacement-Earphones/dp/B01LWL9S2E

I got mine for ~$7 bucks each from AliExpress, but they took over a month to reach me. I didn't notice the cables changing the sound any, but I prefer the way they feel to the springy, sticky stock cables.


----------



## trollin863

I found this from ebay

http://m.ebay.com/itm/142211694104?_mwBanner=1

Buy 2 get the 3rd 5% off.

About 7 bucks with shipping.

Feel like these silver cables are the same all coming from the same factory whether you get it from amazon, ebay, aliexpress or penonaudio.

Id rather save a few dollars and put it towards some new tips. Spider, have you tried soft silicone tips like sony hybrids on the zs3? Im asking because I like hybrids the best even more than comply. I could be convinced to try foams out again but might try making some homemades first with some ear plugs and a whole puncher cause the complys are pricey as are the hybrids. I need to find some good generic hybrid clones or another good single flanged soft silicone tip. I hate buying that assortment package of hybrid tips with the small, medium and large sizes when I only use the mediums.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The stocj ZS3 cable is actually quite nice.  Try it before upgrading.

There's a seller who has the ZST silver cables for $4.99 and often puts it on sale for $4.69.  Havent checked if he has the ZS3 ones and kinda lazy to check since I'm on mobile but it's the cheapest place I've found for the silver cable.

GearBest is legit, although package delivery ranges from 2 weeks to 2 months lol.


----------



## VShaft

Bought the silver cable for the ZS3. Like many others here, can't really comment about the change in sound. As far as my ears are concerned, there isn't any. I was also pretty pissed to find out - again! - that screwing memory wire from hell. Thankfully it can be removed in a matter of minutes, and without it the silver cable is pretty, pliable, less springy and more comfortable than the stock. Plus, no mic, which I prefer.

With the silver cable + Slater's foam removal mod the ZS3 is definitely a killer IEM. I find its sound signature so much to my liking, and when I listen to some well-produced and mastered music they shine even more.


----------



## waylo

Received a pair of ZST's today from Amazon. Immediately they seemed off. The right one is clearly louder than the left. Is this a common occurrence? Lowering the right by 3-4db's completely fixes the issue. I contacted Amazon and have a replacement pair coming tomorrow. I'm just hoping this isn't a common thing and I'm going to have to go through half a dozen pairs before I find ones that aren't unbalanced.


----------



## Holypal

An interesting ZS5 wooden mod:


----------



## B9Scrambler

Dont even have them yet and there are some badass mods in the works. CoiL, buddy. Can't wait to see what you come up with


----------



## trollin863

Decided to go with 1 pair of zs3s, 1 pair of atrs, and 2 pairs of ed4s from Gearbest. The ed4s are only 4 bucks right now and I thought theyd be smart to get since theyre not over the ear which is what im used to wearing. Also they are supposed to have excellent subbass.

Need to figure out what tips work best for each thinking foam for the zs3 and sony hybrid for the atr and ed4s.

I have a box of about 50 high quality ear plugs Im considering trying to make some homemade foam tips. Anyone else doing this with their zs3s or am I better off buying comply clone generics?


----------



## Slater

waylo said:


> Received a pair of ZST's today from Amazon. Immediately they seemed off. The right one is clearly louder than the left. Is this a common occurrence? Lowering the right by 3-4db's completely fixes the issue. I contacted Amazon and have a replacement pair coming tomorrow. I'm just hoping this isn't a common thing and I'm going to have to go through half a dozen pairs before I find ones that aren't unbalanced.



Nah, some KZs are off on one side (maybe 1-3%) - doesn't matter what model, where you bought it, etc. It's just the luck of the draw QC issues, and is not unique to KZ by any means. The solution is exactly what you did - contact the seller & get a replacement pair. 99.8% of the time, the replacement pair is fine.

Good luck!


----------



## Slater (May 12, 2017)

trollin863 said:


> Decided to go with 1 pair of zs3s, 1 pair of atrs, and 2 pairs of ed4s from Gearbest. The ed4s are only 4 bucks right now and I thought theyd be smart to get since theyre not over the ear which is what im used to wearing. Also they are supposed to have excellent subbass.
> 
> Need to figure out what tips work best for each thinking foam for the zs3 and sony hybrid for the atr and ed4s.
> 
> I have a box of about 50 high quality ear plugs Im considering trying to make some homemade foam tips. Anyone else doing this with their zs3s or am I better off buying comply clone generics?



Good choices on the ZS3 and ATR!

But yeah, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy the ED4 no matter what the price.

There's definitely 1, and I think maybe a total of 2, HF members that actually like them. For $4 they are worth it to reuse for parts though - I've bought bare KZ replacement cables and paid $3. So for $1 more you get spare tips and can even use the shells (for driver swaps, or maybe use the shells to make a pair of earrings or a cool amplifier knob). Or remove the tips, cut them apart where they meet at the "Y", tie each one to a short stick, and you have 2 great cat toys!

But for listening to actual real music...ummm they are turd sundaes with whipped cream and a cherry on top.

I'm really sorry to burst your bubble. On the bright side, maybe you'll be the 3rd person that actually likes them!


----------



## Slater

VShaft said:


> With the silver cable + Slater's foam removal mod the ZS3 is definitely a killer IEM. I find its sound signature so much to my liking, and when I listen to some well-produced and mastered music they shine even more.



Yeah, if the reports are true and they ADDED the foam filter when they revised the ZS3 from the matte version to the shiny version - I have to ask "what were they thinking"?


----------



## Slater

trollin863 said:


> Feel like these silver cables are the same all coming from the same factory whether you get it from amazon, ebay, aliexpress or penonaudio.
> 
> Id rather save a few dollars and put it towards some new tips.



The cable is nice because it's softer and has little/no microphonics vs the stock cable.

As far as them coming from the same factory, the ZST and ZS3 silver cables are made by KZ themselves. So yes, they are all coming from the same factory.


----------



## SpiderNhan

trollin863 said:


> Decided to go with 1 pair of zs3s, 1 pair of atrs, and 2 pairs of ed4s from Gearbest. The ed4s are only 4 bucks right now and I thought theyd be smart to get since theyre not over the ear which is what im used to wearing. Also they are supposed to have excellent subbass.
> 
> Need to figure out what tips work best for each thinking foam for the zs3 and sony hybrid for the atr and ed4s.
> 
> I have a box of about 50 high quality ear plugs Im considering trying to make some homemade foam tips. Anyone else doing this with their zs3s or am I better off buying comply clone generics?


The ZS3 is picky with tips. It's too narrow for 5mm bores and too wide for 3mm bores rendering 85% of my tip inventory useless. The stock tips fit my left ear okay, but get blocked in my right ear, which was why I thought I had a channel imbalance. KZ Starline tips, which come installed on the ZST, fit but they get painful. I finally got them sorted by installing hybrid Symbio tips by MandarinEs. You can find them on eBay for $17 per 3 pair.


----------



## Slater (May 12, 2017)

SpiderNhan said:


> The ZS3 is picky with tips. It's too narrow for 5mm bores and too wide for 3mm bores rendering 85% of my tip inventory useless. The stock tips fit my left ear okay, but get blocked in my right ear, which was why I thought I had a channel imbalance. KZ Starline tips, which come installed on the ZST, fit but they get painful. I finally got them sorted by installing hybrid Symbio tips by MandarinEs. You can find them on eBay for $17 per 3 pair.



If you're careful, you can stretch 3mm silicone tips to fit. The 3mm Comply/memory foams don't work though, as the foam prevents the center section from stretching enough.

As far as the Starlines, I've found (and others have too) that you need to step DOWN 1 size. I always wear medium tips, but for some reason on the ZS3 when I step down to small it's perfect. Why this is the case, I'm not sure. It obviously has something to do with the nozzle (maybe the angle of the nozzle relative to the body, or the length of the nozzle). But the nozzle is completely smooth with no barb on the end, so you would think it would be the opposite case.


----------



## SpiderNhan

D'oh! I've already destroyed my small starline tips by cutting out the bore to make spacer rings for the 1More EB100.


----------



## Slater

SpiderNhan said:


> D'oh! I've already destroyed my small starline tips by cutting out the bore to make spacer rings for the 1More EB100.



PM me your address. I'll drop some in the mail you bud.

Or for $0.74 shipped you can get a full set of 6 (1 pair of each size) on AE.


----------



## SpiderNhan

slaterlovesspam said:


> PM me your address. I'll drop some in the mail you bud.
> 
> Or for $0.74 shipped you can get a full set of 6 (1 pair of each size) on AE.


Many thanks for the offer, but I'm perfectly content with my current collection of tips. I tried the small starlines on a couple IEMs, but not the ZS3, and in each case they were too small to get a seal. I really like the Symbio tips on the ZS3. So far they're the only IEM that truly benefits from them.


----------



## SomeTechNoob (May 12, 2017)

waylo said:


> Received a pair of ZST's today from Amazon. Immediately they seemed off. The right one is clearly louder than the left. Is this a common occurrence? Lowering the right by 3-4db's completely fixes the issue. I contacted Amazon and have a replacement pair coming tomorrow. I'm just hoping this isn't a common thing and I'm going to have to go through half a dozen pairs before I find ones that aren't unbalanced.



The only report I've seen of channel imbalance was someone inserting one side deeper than the other.  My left ear is a bit different in shape from my right so I also need to remember to not shove them in all the way otherwise it does sound a wee bit off.  If the second pair is the same, I'm betting its your ear shape.

edit: whoops, read as zs3 instead of zst.  Still, haven't heard much about channel imbalance issues and I've been following this thread for some time now.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

trollin863 said:


> Decided to go with 1 pair of zs3s, 1 pair of atrs, and 2 pairs of ed4s from Gearbest.



Try listening to the KZ-ATR's with the Benjie S5, it's like listening to an old stereo but in a good way!

PS: They are too bright/almost too bright with the Colorfly C3.


----------



## VinceHill24

Tried searching for ZS5 review in Chinese and came across this HK forum where one of this guy posted some brief impressions in english. 
https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2373937&extra=page=1&page=1


----------



## WilliamCruz

VinceHill24 said:


> Tried searching for ZS5 review in Chinese and came across this HK forum where one of this guy posted some brief impressions in english.
> https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2373937&extra=page=1&page=1



Review sounds good.


----------



## Pankaj135

slaterlovesspam said:


> PM me your address. I'll drop some in the mail you bud.
> 
> Or for $0.74 shipped you can get a full set of 6 (1 pair of each size) on AE.



Could you post 
Aliexpress link?


----------



## WilliamCruz

can't wait for my zs5... god


----------



## Pankaj135 (May 13, 2017)

waylo said:


> Received a pair of ZST's today from Amazon. Immediately they seemed off. The right one is clearly louder than the left. Is this a common occurrence? Lowering the right by 3-4db's completely fixes the issue. I contacted Amazon and have a replacement pair coming tomorrow. I'm just hoping this isn't a common thing and I'm going to have to go through half a dozen pairs before I find ones that aren't unbalanced.



Ask for a replacement. I had a problem with KZ ATES on Aliexpress and thanks to forum members I disputed and got refund.

P.S . Sorry misread, your post, but yeah there is 30% chance


----------



## trollin863

With the kz3 having an unusual nozzle size has anyone decided to go with homemade foam tips? With kzs in general being such budget oriented iems it makes sense to at least try. I have some high quality earplugs I was wanting to use for this project. Im thinking just cut the ear plug with some good scissors roughly the same depth and size as a medium hybrid tip(which I know fits well) but for the hole make it slightly smaller than the nozzle. Then basically working the hole in the middle of the tip over the nozzle rocking back and forth gently until it fits snug onto the nozzle. Probably over simplifing this but LMK if any of guys do this with your kzs or just your iems in general. From what Ive read you just need a hole puncher


----------



## waylo

Replacement ZST's arrived today. First thing that stuck out to me was the packaging. This pair had the cord neatly coiled and tied, tucked in a baggy. All the additional ear tips were in a separate baggy as well. The pair I received yesterday just had the cord wound loose in the box and the tips loose as well. The sound is totally different as well. Much better. Balanced and the base is much deeper. Curious if I got someones return on that first pair or what. Only problem with this new pair is the left IEM was hard to get plugged in as the female end was a bit loose on it.


----------



## trollin863

SpiderNhan said:


> The ZS3 is picky with tips. It's too narrow for 5mm bores and too wide for 3mm bores rendering 85% of my tip inventory useless. The stock tips fit my left ear okay, but get blocked in my right ear, which was why I thought I had a channel imbalance. KZ Starline tips, which come installed on the ZST, fit but they get painful. I finally got them sorted by installing hybrid Symbio tips by MandarinEs. You can find them on eBay for $17 per 3 pair.




Spider, can I use these Mandarin Hybrid Symbio tips on the ATR and ED4 as well?

Or do these just work well with the zs3?

One more very important thing about sizing, if a medium Sony hybrid tip is what I wear, than should I buy the mediums? 

Thanks and this tip looks really promising appreciate the suggestion


----------



## SpiderNhan

trollin863 said:


> Spider, can I use these Mandarin Hybrid Symbio tips on the ATR and ED4 as well?
> 
> Or do these just work well with the zs3?
> 
> ...


They fit the ATR just fine, but I like the stock tips better.

 

I don't have an ED4 or Sony Hybrid tips so I can't comment on those.


----------



## hoerlurar

trollin863 said:


> Spider, can I use these Mandarin Hybrid Symbio tips on the ATR and ED4 as well?
> 
> Or do these just work well with the zs3?
> 
> ...



I didn't like my ed4 first, but with generic aliexpress foams they're ok. a bit weird sounding though.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

waylo said:


> Replacement ZST's arrived today. First thing that stuck out to me was the packaging. This pair had the cord neatly coiled and tied, tucked in a baggy. All the additional ear tips were in a separate baggy as well. The pair I received yesterday just had the cord wound loose in the box and the tips loose as well. The sound is totally different as well. Much better. Balanced and the base is much deeper. Curious if I got someones return on that first pair or what. Only problem with this new pair is the left IEM was hard to get plugged in as the female end was a bit loose on it.



Sounds like the first pair definitely was some returned junk.  All my KZs have been neatly packaged and the wires nicely wrapped.


----------



## Slater

Pankaj135 said:


> Could you post
> Aliexpress link?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...icone-Eartips-Ear-Sleeve-Ear/32726427364.html


----------



## Lord Rexter

*Well, I found a different mod that makes further improvements.*

Thanks a lot @slaterlovesspam for the mod nicely done . I modded my second pair of ZS3s and mids are improved and bass is cleaner too with the mod (removed both black foam and the red screen).


----------



## chinmie

purchased the ZS3 yesterday, it arrived with ZST written on the box 

haven't done the mod yet, because to my ears the bass is just fine, even feels less in quantity from my bass earbuds..


----------



## chinmie (May 14, 2017)

update: i opened the red mesh to look inside, but i couldn't find any black tuning foam inside the nozzle. poked a needle inside and also couldn't find any. mine is the glossy version (with that weird ZST box writing)


----------



## Marl Mora

I'm interested in buying ZS3 (or ZS5 if the reviews are great). Will it be a great upgrade from Mi Hybrid in terms of sound quality? Or anyone has a suggestion?


----------



## Viber

My ZS3 review is up! 

https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/...ds-with-microphone.21763/reviews#review-18578

Finally a pair gets a 5/5 from me...


----------



## peskypesky

Viber said:


> My ZS3 review is up!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/...ds-with-microphone.21763/reviews#review-18578
> 
> Finally a pair gets a 5/5 from me...



Hmm. I wonder how they compare in sound to the KZ ED9 which I own and like.


----------



## Viber

peskypesky said:


> Hmm. I wonder how they compare in sound to the KZ ED9 which I own and like.



Just buy them, i don't think anyone would be disappointed by them. 
I recommend buying S/M/L foam tips as well as foam tips gave me a good seal and helped me avoid the "vacuum" effect a few people mentioned in this thread.


----------



## MAntunes

Are these ZS5 and the ZSR Pro the same IEM?
If not are there any news about the ZSR Pro?


----------



## Otto Motor

slaterlovesspam said:


> BEHIND the red screen is a small piece of black acoustic foam. It's stuffed in the very tip of the plastic tube (the color of which might be red or blue).



Mine didn't have this foam.


----------



## TheVortex

MAntunes said:


> Are these ZS5 and the ZSR Pro the same IEM?
> If not are there any news about the ZSR Pro?



I think the ZSR were meant to be a 5 driver unit for around 90 dollars but that seems to be put on the back burner but they are meant to have the same casing according to that image of the packaging. I waiting for a decent review before I order as there QC leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> Hmm. I wonder how they compare in sound to the KZ ED9 which I own and like.



Which filter are you referring to liking with your ED9? Shiny gold or dull brass? It's pretty hard to beat the ED9's imaging, clarity, and soundstage.

Compared to the ED9, the ZS3 is pretty heavy on the sub-bass (I consider it a basshead IEM). The ZS3 is much more comfortable than the heavy ED9 though, and the removable cable w/memory wire is a plus. The ATR or ZST is closer in sound to the ED9.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> Mine didn't have this foam.



Do you have the matte black or glossy black ZS3? And how long ago did you buy your ZS3?


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2017)

TheVortex said:


> I think the ZSR were meant to be a 5 driver unit for around 90 dollars but that seems to be put on the back burner but they are meant to have the same casing according to that image of the packaging. I waiting for a decent review before I order as there QC leaves a lot to be desired.



Interesting, because the packages are completely different. The shape of the molded space on the ZSR Pro looks different than the ZS5. Also, the packaging on the ZS5 is very premium for a $30 IEM.

Compare that with the ZSR's $0.35 cardboard box and similar molded plastic insert as the ATx, ZS3, & ZST:




I would imagine if they shared the exact same shell that KZ would logically have them sharing the same retail packaging.


----------



## ephrank

Where can I find a seller that have ZS5 with KZ Gold plated cable? Thanks


----------



## Vidal

Gold plated cables, how does that improve things?

Gold is a poorer conductor of electricity than copper. Silver > Copper > Gold > Aluminium >  Adamantium


----------



## trollin863 (May 15, 2017)

@chinmie Glad your zs3s are sounding good straight out the box, even if its a zst box lol. Im a bit on the fence as to whether I should attempt the zs3 mod myself. I was under the impression that the mod improves the overall sound quality especially the mids and bass. Everyone has a different ear though so I will at least try the zs3s without the mod for awhile. Hopefully this mod is easy enough to perform I havent really looked in detail how to do it yet.


----------



## trollin863

SpiderNhan said:


> They fit the ATR just fine, but I like the stock tips better.
> 
> 
> I don't have an ED4 or Sony Hybrid tips so I can't comment on those.



Should I get the medium Mandarin Hybrid Symbio tips if I wear a medium with all my other tips? (To be used on the zs3)


----------



## asiatiger999

My zs5 arrived yesterday, mids and trebles are good out of the box, i.e. close mids and good treble extension. Vocals sounds close to you as well. However the build quality left a lot to be desired, my left unit took a bit of force to be fully inserted with both stock and gold-plated cable. The fit is awkward as well, like fitting a box inside a sphere, and the units are large and stick out of my ears a bit so probably cannot be used lying down.
Overall, zs5 gives really good female vocals for me.


----------



## WilliamCruz

asiatiger999 said:


> My zs5 arrived yesterday, mids and trebles are good out of the box, i.e. close mids and good treble extension. Vocals sounds close to you as well. However the build quality left a lot to be desired, my left unit took a bit of force to be fully inserted with both stock and gold-plated cable. The fit is awkward as well, like fitting a box inside a sphere, and the units are large and stick out of my ears a bit so probably cannot be used lying down.
> Overall, zs5 gives really good female vocals for me.



what about the bass? is it a bassy iem?


----------



## Keller2

Vidal said:


> Gold plated cables, how does that improve things?
> 
> Gold is a poorer conductor of electricity than copper. Silver > Copper > Gold > Aluminium >  Adamantium



It's there mostly for looks.


----------



## VinceHill24

asiatiger999 said:


> My zs5 arrived yesterday, mids and trebles are good out of the box, i.e. close mids and good treble extension. Vocals sounds close to you as well. However the build quality left a lot to be desired, my left unit took a bit of force to be fully inserted with both stock and gold-plated cable. The fit is awkward as well, like fitting a box inside a sphere, and the units are large and stick out of my ears a bit so probably cannot be used lying down.
> Overall, zs5 gives really good female vocals for me.


Wow you're fast. Is it bass light like what some Taobao review had said ? From the way you described briefly it seems like it's a bright sounding iem


----------



## chinmie

trollin863 said:


> @chinmie Glad your zs3s are sounding good straight out the box, even if its a zst box lol. Im a bit on the fence as to whether I should attempt the zs3 mod myself. I was under the impression that the mod improves the overall sound quality especially the mids and bass. Everyone has a different ear though so I will at least try the zs3s without the mod for awhile. Hopefully this mod is easy enough to perform I havent really looked in detail how to do it yet.



@slaterlovesspam instructions is easy enough to follow, you shouldn't have to worry about it . I ended up keeping the red mesh off, and using a round foam tip. before that i was using sony tips, but it seals too tight that it created vacuum and pops my ear every time i remove it.. i might try inserting a VE monk foam inside the nozzle later and see how it goes


----------



## ezekiel77

VinceHill24 said:


> Wow you're fast. Is it bass light like what some Taobao review had said ? From the way you described briefly it seems like it's a bright sounding iem



Interesting... with 2 DDs I thought it'll be bass-emphasised, or at least not lacking at all in the lower end of things.


----------



## WilliamCruz

ezekiel77 said:


> Interesting... with 2 DDs I thought it'll be bass-emphasised, or at least not lacking at all in the lower end of things.


i was pretty shocked to hear male vocals didn't stand out when one dynamic was for mids, totqlly not what i expected


----------



## asiatiger999 (May 15, 2017)

VinceHill24 said:


> Wow you're fast. Is it bass light like what some Taobao review had said ? From the way you described briefly it seems like it's a bright sounding iem


Its bass is lighter than the k3 pro and memt x5 that I also owned.


aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> i was pretty shocked to hear male vocals didn't stand out when one dynamic was for mids, totqlly not what i expected


They still stand out a bit and not covered by drums, but not standing out as much females.


----------



## Vidal

Keller2 said:


> It's there mostly for looks.



I think the correct term would be 'only' there for looks.


----------



## geoemm

Marl Mora said:


> I'm interested in buying ZS3 (or ZS5 if the reviews are great). Will it be a great upgrade from Mi Hybrid in terms of sound quality? Or anyone has a suggestion?



i would also like to know this..


----------



## Enn Jott (May 15, 2017)

Answer is a little late now... (on the ZST mod that is)

I think your description of the mod is great - the mod itself is not that easy, but not hard either. i used some foam i had at home that looks very similar in structure and "density". worked out pretty good i'd say.

but here is the thing - as much as i enjoy the zst (that now have little treble but sound more pleasing) the sound is off - by that i mean the phantom center is not in dead center - it's pushed over to the right side (right side might be louder now). That is something that i can not listen to for more than a few minutes (it drives me nuts). no hard feelings though. after trying the zst (with and without mod) and the somic v4 (also rather disappointing) i'm not sure if i should invest more money in more chifi as i am more disappointed than pleased... but i do have an eye on either the Ty Hi-Z G3, BossHiFi B3 or Fostex TE02n as i prefer neutral sound after all...

BUT i am still very interested in the ZS5 and what ppl think about it


----------



## SpiderNhan

Enn Jott said:


> Answer is a little late now... (on the ZST mod that is)
> 
> I think your description of the mod is great - the mod itself is not that easy, but not hard either. i used some foam i had at home that looks very similar in structure and "density". worked out pretty good i'd say.
> 
> ...


Fostex is Japanese, so no need to limit yourself there.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Enn Jott said:


> Answer is a little late now... (on the ZST mod that is)
> 
> I think your description of the mod is great - the mod itself is not that easy, but not hard either. i used some foam i had at home that looks very similar in structure and "density". worked out pretty good i'd say.
> 
> ...


Thge Boss Hifi B3 has excellent sound.  I had to return mine due to a cable issue.  I have the KZ ZS3 and have done the mod and really like it.


----------



## Slater

Enn Jott said:


> Answer is a little late now... (on the ZST mod that is)
> 
> I think your description of the mod is great - the mod itself is not that easy, but not hard either. i used some foam i had at home that looks very similar in structure and "density". worked out pretty good i'd say.
> 
> ...



If there is a mismatch on 1 side vs the other, that means you made the foam piece a little too large on the side that is weaker. In other words, on the side that is weaker (lower volume) the foam piece is too large, and when it is compressed is creating too dense of a foam filter. Just remove that side, trim a tiny bit off, reinstall & retest. If it still sounds off, repeat.


----------



## Enn Jott

slaterlovesspam said:


> If there is a mismatch on 1 side vs the other, that means you made the foam piece a little too large on the side that is weaker. In other words, on the side that is weaker (lower volume) the foam piece is too large, and when it is compressed is creating too dense of a foam filter. Just remove that side, trim a tiny bit off, reinstall & retest. If it still sounds off, repeat.



Hi, good point, already thought about that - the pieces really looked the same size but who knows. i don't really care atm to be honest, but at some point at some point on some rainy evening i will look at that mess again to see what can be done


----------



## ricemanhk

Enn Jott said:


> Answer is a little late now... (on the ZST mod that is)
> 
> but here is the thing - as much as i enjoy the zst (that now have little treble but sound more pleasing) the sound is off - by that i mean the phantom center is not in dead center - it's pushed over to the right side (right side might be louder now).



I have experienced this problem on certain players, but not with my own phone, tablet or PC.  I was trying the new Onkyo android phone in the shop with my ZST and the center definitely is skewed to the right, but then I play the same song on my own phone and it's fine.  I've only experienced the issue in one or 2 isolated cases, so I chalk it up to issues with the player and not my ZST.  But if it's 100% skewed to the right for you in all cases, then you do have a bum one...

BTW my ZS5 have ARRIVED!!  Well the package has been delivered to my home but I'm still in the office LOL...will give my first impressions later tonight.  I did get the gold cable knowing that most upgrade cables use silver/silver plated/OFC copper etc.  But 1. they're pretty cheap 2. they're quite awesome looking 3. from the pics they look more yellow/gold colored and not actually gold plated (I've rarely seen gold plated wires...has anyone??) 4. it's pretty easy to get the silver ZS3/ZS5 upgrade cable later if I do want one


----------



## bokiboki

Dark Helmet said:


> Thge Boss Hifi B3 has excellent sound.  I had to return mine due to a cable issue.  I have the KZ ZS3 and have done the mod and really like it.


Do you know the difference in B3 and B3S?


----------



## To.M

ricemanhk said:


> BTW my ZS5 have ARRIVED!!




Great to hear it, can't wait for your further impressions!


----------



## ricemanhk

ZS5 is in da house!  Quick review:
VERY NICE cardboard box that's nicely shrink wrapped.  Open the flap and there's 2 magnetic clasps to keep the flap in place like a high end product packaging.  The manual inside the box has both english and chinese, but the english is the usual somewhat dodgy translation...silica gel ear tips (silicone tips), memory silk (memory wire) lol someone used google translate too much...but at least the paper is the nice glossy kind, not some cheap recycled paper.
Inside the box as you've seen in the pictures there are now 2 full sets of S M L tips (12 tips total) that's being held by a metal plate with cutouts.  1 set is grey silicone, almost like the spare ones that came with the ZS3.  The other set are starlines but now they're black instead of the grey that came with the ZST.  The grey silicone ones are slightly softer than the starlines (as others have mentioned before) so most people should be able to find a pair that fits.  Medium starline fits me well, I use that with my ZST too.

Stock cable is the grey green one just like the ZS3, only it comes pre-plugged now.  Memory wire is there, I will cut this off later, but unlike the ZST there's no plastic weight on the wire to hold it down...let's see how it goes.
I can confirm inline volume buttons work on BOTH my xiaomi mi5 android phone AND my ipad! Wow KZ actually spent the money to get the chip that works for both...for Chi-Fi I only know the 1more triple driver has this ios+android chip for volume control, and that costs 4x the ZS5.  The mic/control housing and the buttons are all metal, much nicer than the plastic on the ZS3/ZST. Buttons are tight and press down with a solid click.  I'm very impressed.

Earbud itself is plastic, nothing to write home about.  There's a bit of leftover adhesive and a small scratch on mine already...but oh well I'm not returning it just for that.
I do like the blue color and it looks awesome with the gold upgrade cable.  They do stick out from my ear more than the ZST, and I find it slightly less comfy than either ZST or ZS3, perhaps due to the more angular edges.

Sound.  Now I haven't done any A-B testing yet but initial impressions are very positive.  Treble is clear and energetic without being fatiguing, which I think is a bit better than ZST (bear in mind I'm one of those who don't find ZST treble that fatiguing).  Mids are rich and both male and female vocals are nice, perhaps a touch warmer than the ZST.  Bass is probably between ZST and ZS3 i.e. presence is definitely felt but not overly booming.  Soundstage is decently wide, maybe a tad wider than ZST, and feels more circular vs the oval on the ZST.  Resolution is very good, with good 3D spatial separation with instruments.  I will reserve my final judgement until more testing is done, but out of the box I am very happy with the ZS5, I think it's almost like a melding of the ZS3 bass presence with the ZST clarity, with some additional resolution and spatial separation thrown in!

Gold upgrade wire looks very nice, quality to be tested later.  It now comes in a nice paper box that's also shrink wrapped, definitely better than just throwing it into a free carrying case...

All in all, I'm very impressed with how much KZ has improved in packaging and build quality (at least with the metal inline control, but still at the same level for the earbud itself at least on the outside).  I'll post my final thoughts after doing some more testing, and I'm definitely looking forward to the ZSR when/if it comes out...!


----------



## To.M (May 16, 2017)

Thank you sir for your input!

You have just made my waiting for them even more difficult to stand!


----------



## ricemanhk

OK so I couldn't wait   Did some A-B testing on HDTracks headphone test disc flac files with KZ ZS5 vs ZST vs UE Triplefi10s shootout (my currently available IEMs) and here are my thoughts:

Sensitivity.  TF10s is most sensitive and by a fair margin, while the ZST is slightly more sensitive then ZS5.  I guess more DDs take more power to drive. This might also mean potentially more scalability with amping for the ZS5?

Soundstage and resolution.  Listened to some jazz and the immediate difference is that with the ZS5 I feel like I'm sitting in a bigger room than the ZST.  The TF10s meanwhile are very intimate, but provides more clarity and separation between instruments. There's almost an airy feel to the ZS5 vs TF10s that is similar to going from closed vs open back headphones.  ZS5 has better resolution and much better separation than the ZST as mentioned in my previous post.  The additional DD and BA indeed are doing their job.

Bass wise, TF10s is powerful and tight (well known).  ZST and ZS5 are actually not that far apart (this may change with burn in, as my ZST is well used).  ZST can rumble, but ZS5 rumbles with more separation, so the ZST bass is almost a little muddy in comparison.  Neither are basshead level, but I do like the slightly stronger and more musical bass on the ZS5.  I'm hoping more burn-in will loosen it up further, as the bass can sometimes sound a little tight on the ZS5 right now.

Mids the ZST and ZS5 are somewhat similar, very natural sounding for both male and female vocals.  Not sure if the freq curve is biasing me, but I do get a feel there's less of a peak in mids for ZS5, more neutral sounding.
Meanwhile I've always felt TF10s were a bit too warm for female vocal dominant tracks, and this bears out here.  

Treble the ZST and ZS5 are again similar, although the ZS5 does provides more detail than the ZST in the highs.  High cymbals sound clearer on the ZS5 than ZST.  But the main thing is that there's a track with female vocals S sounds that I can always hear some sibilance on the ZST, but this is GONE on the ZS5!  For those who feel ZST was too bright/sibilant I think the ZS5 may be the ticket for you.  

Overall the TF10s is quite a different animal altogether so I won't go into too much further detail.  Between the ZST and ZS5, personally I feel the ZS5 improves alot on the ZST by getting rid of the sibilance, strengthening the bass and with more drivers we get better resolution and separation.  Adding a wider airy soundstage with better spatial separation is just more icing on the cake.

I don't have my ZS3 anymore, but from memory the ZS5 should be closer to the ZST than the ZS3, which makes sense from a hardware perspective as well.
I tried the gold cable as well, really can't hear much of a difference (same experience with my ZST and ZS3 with the stock vs silver cable).  It feels nicer than the stock, just like the silver one, but I need my mic and volume controls for daily commuting use.

Things I don't like about ZS5
- Hard angular edge design of the earbud makes it less comfy even during in my short hearing session. This does not bode well for longer listening (will try on my commute tomorrow)
- The nozzle on the ZS5 is a straight tube, while ZST has a notch.  This means the tips fall off slightly more easily on the ZS5 vs ZST.  With my A-B testing, there was indeed 1 time that the eartip was left in my ear when I pulled the ZS5 out
- Memory wire on both the stock and gold cables, although this is easily modded by cutting the wire out

Anyway all in all I like the ZS5 quite alot!  I didn't think it was possible at this price point but the ZS5 indeed can give a performance at like 90% of TF10s level of IEMs.  Add in the inline mic with volume buttons that work with ios and android and I am now one happy head-fier


----------



## Dark Helmet

bokiboki said:


> Do you know the difference in B3 and B3S?


I do not.  The B3s looks different and seems to have a more premium looking cable, but I have not heard the B3s.  I will be picking up either the B3 or the B3s in the near future.


----------



## Slater (May 16, 2017)

Dark Helmet said:


> I do not.  The B3s looks different and seems to have a more premium looking cable, but I have not heard the B3s.  I will be picking up either the B3 or the B3s in the near future.



Does the B3 have an in-line mic or cable control of some sort?

Because some of the Chinese manufacturers add a letter after the model to designate a mic/control cable version - VJJB uses 'S', soundMAGIC, etc.

So if the B3 has no mic at all, this may explain the model numbers.


----------



## Dark Helmet

slaterlovesspam said:


> Does the B3 have an in-line mic or cable control of some sort?
> 
> Because some of the Chinese manufacturers add a letter after the model to designate a mic/control cable version - VJJB uses 'S', soundMAGIC, etc.
> 
> So if the B3 has no mic at all, this may explain the model numbers.


Neither one has an in-line mic and they look totally different.

https://www.amazon.com/Easy-BOSSHIF...9598&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=boss+hi+fi+b3&th=1


----------



## Podster

To.M said:


> Thank you sir for your input!
> 
> You have just made my waiting for them even more difficult to stand!



LOL, I'm also giving Rice three deductions for no pictures yet

Congrats @ricemanhk


----------



## Vidal

B3S is an updated B3, not heard the B3S but the B3 is exceptionally good.


----------



## peskypesky

Vidal said:


> B3S is an updated B3, not heard the B3S but the B3 is exceptionally good.



I prefer the look of the B3. Wonder why they changed it.


----------



## Keller2

Do you guys think a ZS5 -> ZS3 reshell is possible considering the size of the components?

Would it screw with the accoustics?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Keller2 said:


> Do you guys think a ZS5 -> ZS3 reshell is possible considering the size of the components?
> 
> Would it screw with the accoustics?


I'd imagine that's going to need some serious work.


----------



## eyepauls

ZS5 is really tempting, big fan of the ZST even thought it doesnt get much use these days - keen for more impressions as people start to receive theirs..


----------



## ephrank

Can anyone recommend an AliExpress / Taobao upgrade cable for ZS5 / ZS3, that is a step (or several steps) above the official KZ ZS3 / ZS5 silver cable? Budget is <= US$100. Cheers!


----------



## ricemanhk

Keller2 said:


> Do you guys think a ZS5 -> ZS3 reshell is possible considering the size of the components?
> 
> Would it screw with the accoustics?



ZST maybe, ZS3 is quite tight inside.  But it would take alot of work and I think acoustics would be affected as the driver placements are all quite different between the 3.

BTW for my commute today it was actually quite OK comfort-wise after I got rid of the memory wire. I think that was the cause for the issues last night as it would hold the earbud against my ear at certain angles.  After taking out the wire, the earbud would just sit naturally in my ear and there's less pressure on it.  I'd still give the ZST/ZS3 a slight edge in comfort, but the ZS5 has improved alot by removing the memory wire.  My only concern now is the lack of wire relief on the wire housing, as the wire will sit at a 90 deg angle after removing the memory wire.  Let's hope they sell the stock ZS5 cable with mic as a separate item soon...

As for ZS5 pictures, will post some tonight.  Had a lot other misc stuff arrive in the same shipment so my desk was way too messy LOL


----------



## Slater

Keller2 said:


> Do you guys think a ZS5 -> ZS3 reshell is possible considering the size of the components?
> 
> Would it screw with the accoustics?



Not enough room in the ZS3. There's only enough room for at most a 9mm DD driver according to my measurements when I had the shells apart (the stock driver is 8mm, so there is room for a larger driver swap, but 9mm is max). Also the nozzle is awfully small to fit a BA driver and still have enough open room in the channel for the sound from the other drivers to pass.

A better donor shell would be the ZS1/ZS2/ZN1. It's very comfortable to wear, and even has dual sound channels for better frequency separation. It is easy to open, and has enough room for 1-2 BA drivers (in the shell not in the nozzle) and a crossover.

Another option would be to rework the ZS5 shell. Sand it smooth with a Dremel and smooth/fill in the thin spots with Bondo and repainting. It won't look sexy and CIEM-ish like the ZS3, but it won't have the sharp edges anymore.

Finally, there's tons of info at the Home-made IEM thread (https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/home-made-iems.430688/) You would fall out of your chair seeing what those guys have made, casting their own CIEM shells using readily available materials.


----------



## WilliamCruz (May 17, 2017)

Got my HDS3, for few bucks.

SOUND
It has a warm sound, slightly u shaped freq with A little more emphasis on the treble. Can be a little bright/dark at times, depending on the track. The treble does extend far and is sometimes annoying especially on badly recorded tracks, the bass is a little lacking on extension but the amount and decay is just right.

Overall, it has been tuned well..a good all rounder. But do not expect it to perform at the level of iems like GR07.

Resolution and seperation is great, was able to hear the little voice crack from the track "all by myself by Celine Dion.

I also like to mention that the fit is excellent, it's so small and light so there won't be any discomfort, however the microphonics isn't the best.. cable noise is clearly audible.

Value 5/5
Sound 4.5/5
Comfort 5/5
Isolation 3.5/5
Microphonics 3/5


This IEM is for people that are on a budget and
want a non bassy iem. I have owned the zs3 and ate in KZ lineup. SQ wise it is better than the KZ ATE, closer to zs3. I like it more than the zs3, non-bassheads can consider this purchase.


----------



## 1clearhead

Wow! So far I've been burning and listening to the KZ ZS5, since Sunday (today being Wednesday in Beijing, China) and I have to say that these are a winner! ....Well? as long as QC factors don't arise.

Amazingly for the ZS5, 3D and hi-end RES is by far the best in my collection even beating my priced M1221 and K3 HD in that certain area per say. Though, overall clarity still goes to the M1221, while the K3 HD still holds its own for a linear presentation.

I'll try to download some PIC's when I get a chance.....


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> Wow! So far I've been burning and listening to the KZ ZS5, since Sunday (today being Wednesday in Beijing, China) and I have to say that these are a winner! ....Well? as long as QC factors don't arise.
> 
> Amazingly for the ZS5, *3D and hi-end RES* is by far the best in my collection *even beating my priced M1221 and K3 HD in that certain area* per say. Though, overall clarity still goes to the M1221, while the K3 HD still holds its own for a linear presentation.
> 
> I'll try to download some PIC's when I get a chance.....


SAY WHAAAT?  

Where is the best and safest buy button?


----------



## Viber (May 17, 2017)

I wonder how low would the ZS5 sell in the future...
Anyone remembers price fluctuation of ZS1/ZS2/ZS3/ATE-S etc? or maybe they were all sold at a low price right off their release date ?

I have a theory that ZS5 will be sold for 20$ eventually.


----------



## CoiL (May 17, 2017)

Clear... WHERE did You buy Yours? I want to hit the buy button and get the experience You are having!

Edit:

I gave up! Pre-ordered it from NickeHCK (haven`t had issues with them), gray, without mic, silver cable for 36$.

*Painful waiting begins....*


----------



## hoerlurar

nplateau said:


> I just spoke with Jim at NiceHCK.  He's offering a $10 pre-order discount on the ZS5.  So I cancelled my previous order and ordered again after the price adjustment.  $29 for the blue with the mic and silver cable.



is this offer still valid, has anyone tried the last couple of days?


----------



## CoiL

hoerlurar said:


> is this offer still valid, has anyone tried the last couple of days?


Hmmm... didn`t notice that offer, just 2$ coupon. Will try to contact Jim.


----------



## Shuikit

I contacted Jim last week and he did a manual $10 discount for me


----------



## CoiL

Keller2 said:


> Do you guys think a ZS5 -> ZS3 reshell is possible considering the size of the components?
> 
> Would it screw with the accoustics?



You could try some DIY shells from AE, for example this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/In-...-Balanced-armature-receivers/32724182956.html

I`m going to reshell ZS5 FOR SURE.... with WOOD


----------



## Podster

I'm hearing all this re-shell talk on the ZS5, anyone have some shots of these cracked open so I can see the layout? THX


----------



## CoiL

Podster said:


> I'm hearing all this re-shell talk on the ZS5, anyone have some shots of these cracked open so I can see the layout? THX


Will crack them open as soon as I get them! ....but loooong wait is dreadful...


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Will crack them open as soon as I get them! ....but loooong wait is dreadful...



I know what you mean @CoiL as I'll have the same condition on the TFZ King's and ZS5 myself!


----------



## ricemanhk (May 17, 2017)

Pics as promised.

Also some blow-up diagrams of the drivers on the taobao link
https://world.taobao.com/item/550087478031.htm


----------



## Trebor1966

ricemanhk said:


> Pics as promised.
> 
> Also some blow-up diagrams of the drivers on the taobao link
> https://world.taobao.com/item/550087478031.htm


Where can we buy the gold cable - on ALIExpress there is only the cable with angled plug:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/Kz-z...lgo_pvid=31854c29-1144-462c-bbb7-98f616382a4f


----------



## ricemanhk

Trebor1966 said:


> Where can we buy the gold cable - on ALIExpress there is only the cable with angled plug:
> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/Kz-z...lgo_pvid=31854c29-1144-462c-bbb7-98f616382a4f



Angled plug only works with ZST/ED12.  I got my pair on taobao, I'm sure they'll show up soon on GB/Ali.  Mine was blue ZS5 + stock w/mic + gold cable, they have other bundles with silver cables, stock cable only etc.


----------



## Keller2

I just bought the ZS5 for 22 USD with the non-mic cable with no premium cables. Will use my ZS3 silver cable and get the yellow one whenever it's available.


----------



## rendyG

Keller2 said:


> I just bought the ZS5 for 22 USD with the non-mic cable with no premium cables. Will use my ZS3 silver cable and get the yellow one whenever it's available.



for $22? where?


----------



## ricemanhk

FYI official launch price on taobao is 199/209 RMB for stock/stock w/mic cable, and +40 RMB for silver or gold upgrade cable.  Usually shops have coupons for like 10RMB off.
Net this translates to about USD 28/29 and USD 35/36 before any shipping costs.

So anything less than these and the seller is passing on some of their margins to you.  But if you see something that's TOO low, then buyer beware...


----------



## CoiL

Keller2 said:


> I just bought the ZS5 for 22 USD with the non-mic cable with no premium cables. Will use my ZS3 silver cable and get the yellow one whenever it's available.


Same question! 

I contacted with Jim @ NiceHCK and no 10$ discount - only typical answer with wish to extend processing time 15-20 days due to pre-order status.


----------



## 1clearhead

CoiL said:


> Clear... WHERE did You buy Yours? I want to hit the buy button and get the experience You are having!
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late reply CoiL, nonetheless they are worth every penny and then some. I bought mine in taobao, since I'm in China, but definitely you're going to like there incredible soundstage. This just blew away all my expectations on KZ's latest model. I just didn't see this one coming. I didn't expect the soundstage to sound as if you just bought some of the best 3D, Hi-RES IEM on the market. All kidding aside, if QC doesn't play a big role in bringing these down, than these are probably going to be the best KZ I've ever laid ears on. Overall, it might be too soon to say, but after 4 days with the ZS5, they can even compete as possibly the latest "budget hybrid killers" on the market, if you ask me.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> Sorry for the late reply CoiL, nonetheless they are worth every penny and then some. I bought mine in taobao, since I'm in China, but definitely you're going to like there incredible soundstage. This just blew away all my expectations on KZ's latest model. I just didn't see this one coming. I didn't expect the soundstage to sound as if you just bought some of the best 3D, Hi-RES IEM on the market. All kidding aside, if QC doesn't play a big role in bringing these down, than these are probably going to be the best KZ I've ever laid ears on. Overall, it might be too soon to say, but after 4 days with the ZS5, they can even compete as possibly the latest "budget hybrid killers" on the market, if you ask me.


Thats GREAT to hear! Especially 3D soundstage part! I bet with my HW&SW modded DX5X & HW modded Aune T1 (Siemens E88CC goldpin) they will sound holographic!


----------



## Keller2

CoiL said:


> Same question!
> 
> I contacted with Jim @ NiceHCK and no 10$ discount - only typical answer with wish to extend processing time 15-20 days due to pre-order status.


I entered in "AudioBudget" as comment and waited for half an hour.


----------



## CoiL

Keller2 said:


> I entered in "AudioBudget" as comment and waited for half an hour.



Really? Then I do NOT want that discount cuz I`ve suspected from day 1 audiobudget site released, that this guy is subjective, paid to promo and lean reviews according to "discount".


----------



## 1clearhead

....here are some PIC's from my *KZ ZS5*!

The black cables (with no MIC) that came with mine works incredibly fine.


----------



## 1clearhead

....I'm thinking of buying a second pair.


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> ....I'm thinking of buying a second pair.



Go for it! 

A audiophile friend of mine (shures, IE800s, etymotics etc.) is already asking to demo my pair after I told him about it...LOL


----------



## Daniel Gur (May 17, 2017)

Got my ZS3, ZST and ATR earphones today. I liked the most the ZST's but all of them sound awesome. I would recommend to add few bucks and instead of the ATR's buy the ZS3 or ZST. the highs on the ZST and ZS3 are lacking a little, do I need to burn them a little and it would be better, or is the highs not that good on both?


----------



## Keller2

CoiL said:


> Really? Then I do NOT want that discount cuz I`ve suspected from day 1 audiobudget site released, that this guy is subjective, paid to promo and lean reviews according to "discount".


I didnt even know audiobudget was a thing. I followed the google translated version of https://www.pepper.pl/promocje/kz-zs5-taniej-o-11-nastepca-zstzs3-z-4-przetwornikami-43770


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> Really? Then I do NOT want that discount cuz I`ve suspected from day 1 audiobudget site released, that this guy is subjective, paid to promo and lean reviews according to "discount".



He was banned from the site for a reason. Maybe that was part of it, I don't know, and don't really care.


----------



## ostewart

Well my girlfriend has said she will buy me a pair of KS5's


----------



## nplateau

hoerlurar said:


> is this offer still valid, has anyone tried the last couple of days?



From what Jim told me, the deal is good as long as it's still in pre=order status.


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> Really? Then I do NOT want that discount cuz I`ve suspected from day 1 audiobudget site released, that this guy is subjective, paid to promo and lean reviews according to "discount".



Meh, how much money is there in "pushing" 8$ iems? lol
I tried a few of his reviewed items and he was more or less accurate on the Bass and Highs side of things, when it comes to Mids his hearing is 100% immune to harsh\distorting mids.

I guess we need to remember that hearing itself is subjective and dependent of various factors like Earwax and hearing loss.


----------



## CoiL (May 18, 2017)

Viber said:


> Meh, how much money is there in "pushing" 8$ iems? lol
> I tried a few of his reviewed items and he was more or less accurate on the Bass and Highs side of things, when it comes to Mids his hearing is 100% immune to harsh\distorting mids.
> 
> I guess we need to remember that hearing itself is subjective and dependent of various factors like Earwax and hearing loss.



Answer - very much! The more product gets positive reviews and promo the more customers and low-budget IEM has VERY large consumer base.
And I agree - there are very many various factors in reviewing products... but subjectiveness should not be one of them and if added possible "paid review/promo" factor - it is very untrustful review site that may leave many ppl disappointed.
And as we have seen in head-fi threads and from respected reviewers, it seems to be unfortunately so.
No need to defend such sites and spread it. That guy was banned from here - for a reason.
And personally, after seeing such "discount code", makes me think about some certain AE sellers promoting their shops through that site. 

Now lets stop this discussion here and return to KZ.

Btw, I decided to cancel my ZS5 order from NiceHCK and get it somewhere else for little cheaper (without discount codes).


----------



## sharpex

Hi, I bought the discounted ZS5 of $ 11 following this Russian site:

http://www.audiofight.info/kz-zs5-chetyrekhdrayvernyye-gibridy-i-seriya-skidok

Here's the scheme for getting discounts on other IEM (VJJB N1 etc):

http://www.audiofight.info/kak-poluchit-skidku

I hope to help someone


----------



## Viber

"Tendway Electronic Store" on Ali is selling ZS5 for 22.5$ without coupons...


----------



## CoiL

That` s where I ordered mine. I hope it isn`t "second Q batch" due to being cheaper.


----------



## Modulus (May 18, 2017)

So what is the comfort going to be like on these ZS5? Looking at those angular edges makes me... uncomfortable. Any comfort impressions?

Also, would anyone recommend the silver cable over the regular ones? I'm skeptical it will affect audio quality, but what about microphonics, comfort, durability. Is it worth getting the silver for a couple dollars more? Looks like they don't have the formed ear hook...


----------



## kwest12 (May 18, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hey, to those with the ZS3. I found a new mod tonight.
> 
> It has been previously posted by a few people that removing the red screen on the very end of the nozzle affects the sound. Removing it reduces the bass quantity slightly (while simultaneously removing the muddiness), and also improves the midrange.
> 
> ...



This is a fantastic write-up. Thank you very much!!


----------



## Slater

kwest12 said:


> This is a fantastic write-up. Thank you very much!!



You're very welcome. Let us know how you like the sound if/when you do the mod.


----------



## Slater

Modulus said:


> So what is the comfort going to be like on these ZS5? Looking at those angular edges makes me... uncomfortable. Any comfort impressions?
> 
> Also, would anyone recommend the silver cable over the regular ones? I'm skeptical it will affect audio quality, but what about microphonics, comfort, durability. Is it worth getting the silver for a couple dollars more? Looks like they don't have the formed ear hook...



The few HF members that have weighed in so far have said that the sound quality is great but indicated that the comfort is not so great. Numerous comments about them sticking out of the ear, and at least 1 person said they can only wear them for a short period of time before having to remove them.

Unfortunately, I'm fearful that this will be the achilles heel of the ZS5.


----------



## dudinacas

I just ordered the QKZ DM8 a week ago and now the ZS5 is out and getting good reviews? I have awful timing.


----------



## Slater

There's always new stuff coming out; don't sweat it. Especially KZ, who release new earphones every month or more. DM8 is no slouch (especially bass, which the ZS5 is lacking according to reports).


----------



## ArthStyle

Hmm vocals wise, what's better? ZS3, ATE, ZST, ED12 or ZS5? I listen to a lot of anime songs that are female vocal heavy.


----------



## Slater (May 19, 2017)

ArthStyle said:


> Hmm vocals wise, what's better? ZS3, ATE, ZST, ED12 or ZS5? I listen to a lot of anime songs that are female vocal heavy.



Between ZS3, ATE, & ZST, I would have to say ZST for sure (for your stated genre).

I have never seen a single person that has ever said the ED12 was good, but I have seen a number of not-so-good comments about it on HF. It's just not that popular of a model for some reason, so not a lot of people own it. And the ZS5 is too new at the moment, so there's barely a handful of people on HF that have commented on it so far. The results about the ZS5's SOUND has been very positive though (and is certainly in-line with your target genre).

So my advice would be if you want a sure thing & you need it soon, go for the ZST. It's 1/3 of the cost of the ZS5 and is a very capable earphone. From personal experience, I can also say that the ZST is very comfortable, but most early reports I have read on HF regarding the ZS5 is that it is NOT comfortable to wear due to it's large size & sharp angled shell design.

However, if you are willing to wait a while for the flood of ZS5s to hit, you'll be able to get a lot of people's opinion before making your final decision. Exactly how long of a wait is anyone's guess at the moment, as most dealers are currently only taking pre-orders. So the wait will involve 1. the time it takes for the Chinese dealers to actually receive stock, and 2. more waiting for it to be shipped from China to wherever you are located.

Hope that helps.


----------



## acia

just received zs5 with silver cable.  silver cable is good replacement for the stock with mic control.  the mic control works with samsung phone.


----------



## VinceHill24

acia said:


> just received zs5 with silver cable.  silver cable is good replacement for the stock with mic control.  the mic control works with samsung phone.


Do share with us more in terms of its sound


----------



## ArthStyle (May 19, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Between ZS3, ATE, & ZST, I would have to say ZST for sure (for your stated genre).
> 
> I have never seen a single person that has ever said the ED12 was good, but I have seen a number of not-so-good comments about it on HF. It's just not that popular of a model for some reason, so not a lot of people own it. And the ZS5 is too new at the moment, so there's barely a handful of people on HF that have commented on it so far. The results about the ZS5's SOUND has been very positive though (and is certainly in-line with your target genre).
> 
> ...




Thanks! I've read a lot of comments regarding the ZST's hissing sound. Is it that bad? I remember selling my ATH-M50x because of the really bad hissing sound which annoyed the hell out of me.

Btw I'm coming from a broken ATH-IM50, I'm still contemplating if I should just get a wire for my IM-50 or buy a ZST.


----------



## pm2lp

Hi. I just ordered the zs3 out of curiosity, it was kind of an impulse purchase but for 8€ it's a cheap one. Now that I found this thread and understood these chinese IEMs might be actually worth the money I'm thinking about buying another pair of KZs or any other decent cheap IEMs, anything under 25€. The ZST are the cheaper option, are they different from the ZS3? Or should I go for the ZS5? How about the Tennmak Pro and the Xiaomi's hybrid pro?


----------



## Sylmar

pm2lp said:


> Hi. I just ordered the zs3 out of curiosity, it was kind of an impulse purchase but for 8€ it's a cheap one. Now that I found this thread and understood these chinese IEMs might be actually worth the money I'm thinking about buying another pair of KZs or any other decent cheap IEMs, anything under 25€. The ZST are the cheaper option, are they different from the ZS3? Or should I go for the ZS5? How about the Tennmak Pro and the Xiaomi's hybrid pro?



I'm still awaiting the KZ ZS5 and don't have the ZST or ZS3. I do have the Tennmak Pro though and that is still a good lowbudget choice. It has a warmer sound signature but is not veiled. Very comfortable too. It seems the ZS5 is less comfortable but I'm still very curious about them.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ArthStyle said:


> Thanks! I've read a lot of comments regarding the ZST's hissing sound. Is it that bad? I remember selling my ATH-M50x because of the really bad hissing sound which annoyed the hell out of me.
> 
> Btw I'm coming from a broken ATH-IM50, I'm still contemplating if I should just get a wire for my IM-50 or buy a ZST.



I also listen to a lot of anime and japanese songs and the ZSTs are pretty good.  I havent heard or had any issues with hissing, not sure where you read that.  Clarity on the ZST is good and the bass is present but not overwhelming.  Vocals do sound a tad artificial but I still listen to my ZSTs on my daily commute with great pleasure.

If you have any specific songs you like I can give them a go since I probably have a couple in my library.


----------



## Slater

ArthStyle said:


> Thanks! I've read a lot of comments regarding the ZST's hissing sound. Is it that bad? I remember selling my ATH-M50x because of the really bad hissing sound which annoyed the hell out of me.
> 
> Btw I'm coming from a broken ATH-IM50, I'm still contemplating if I should just get a wire for my IM-50 or buy a ZST.



The treble is extremely bright, and for treble-sensitive people (like myself) it can be too sharp. It is not an issue for the majority of people though. Certainly no worse than the 4-in-1.

If you do find it to be an issue, I developed a mod to correct it: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650

Also, another excellent (superior to the ZST) choice would be the Urbanfun Hifi (another dual Hybrid). You can find them on aliexpress by searching for 'Urbanfun Hifi'.


----------



## Slater

pm2lp said:


> Hi. I just ordered the zs3 out of curiosity, it was kind of an impulse purchase but for 8€ it's a cheap one. Now that I found this thread and understood these chinese IEMs might be actually worth the money I'm thinking about buying another pair of KZs or any other decent cheap IEMs, anything under 25€. The ZST are the cheaper option, are they different from the ZS3? Or should I go for the ZS5? How about the Tennmak Pro and the Xiaomi's hybrid pro?



Do this simple mod on your ZS3 before you buy any more, as it may get you where you want to be without shelling out another dime: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1161#post-13476376


----------



## pm2lp

Sylmar said:


> I'm still awaiting the KZ ZS5 and don't have the ZST or ZS3. I do have the Tennmak Pro though and that is still a good lowbudget choice. It has a warmer sound signature but is not veiled. Very comfortable too. It seems the ZS5 is less comfortable but I'm still very curious about them.



I'll probably wait to get more feedback from the ZS5, a comparison with the Tennmaks would be appreciated. 



slaterlovesspam said:


> Do this simple mod on your ZS3 before you buy any more, as it may get you where you want to be without shelling out another dime: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1161#post-13476376



Thanks, I will definitely try that but even if it works for me I'll buy a second set anyway, it could be another ZS3 just to keep at my gfs place, these little bastards are so cheap that I just want to buy a bunch of them, so I always have one nearby.


----------



## Dark Helmet

pm2lp said:


> Hi. I just ordered the zs3 out of curiosity, it was kind of an impulse purchase but for 8€ it's a cheap one. Now that I found this thread and understood these chinese IEMs might be actually worth the money I'm thinking about buying another pair of KZs or any other decent cheap IEMs, anything under 25€. The ZST are the cheaper option, are they different from the ZS3? Or should I go for the ZS5? How about the Tennmak Pro and the Xiaomi's hybrid pro?


Look at the Boss Hi Fi B3.  I have my replacement coming in today.  They are excellent sounding and very well balanced.


----------



## themindfreak

slaterlovesspam said:


> Do this simple mod on your ZS3 before you buy any more, as it may get you where you want to be without shelling out another dime: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1161#post-13476376


Actually slater, Im quite curious to know if removing the acoustic foam is safe for our ears. From my understanding/ my knowledge, I thought that acoustic foam in earphones are meant to reduce sound pressure to our eardrums because earphones basically creates a "vacuum" between our ears and the atmosphere.


----------



## pm2lp (May 19, 2017)

themindfreak said:


> Actually slater, Im quite curious to know if removing the acoustic foam is safe for our ears. From my understanding/ my knowledge, I thought that acoustic foam in earphones are meant to reduce sound pressure to our eardrums because earphones basically creates a "vacuum" between our ears and the atmosphere.



I believe those work more as filters than any other thing. And when I say filters I'm not talking about low/high pass filters but as a dust and moisture filter, preventing stuff from getting inside the capsule and damaging it. Sure, our eardrums might get damaged from exposure to high pressure, even causing vertigo but not at this level.

Btw, I'm an Audiologist, we have hearing aids with SPLs reaching 150dB and I never heard anything related to eardrum injures, this IEMs don't even get close to that.


----------



## trumpethead

Does anyone know if the ZS5 has a crossover. I've seen no mention of it.


----------



## Slater (May 19, 2017)

themindfreak said:


> Actually slater, Im quite curious to know if removing the acoustic foam is safe for our ears. From my understanding/ my knowledge, I thought that acoustic foam in earphones are meant to reduce sound pressure to our eardrums because earphones basically creates a "vacuum" between our ears and the atmosphere.



99.2% of in-ears have absolutely zero tuning foam. It's there for tuning the acoustics only, plain and simple. So yes, it's 100% perfectly safe.


----------



## Slater

pm2lp said:


> I believe those work more as filters than any other thing. And when I say filters I'm not talking about low/high pass filters but as a dust and moisture filter, preventing stuff from getting inside the capsule and damaging it. Sure, our eardrums might get damaged from exposure to high pressure, even causing vertigo but not at this level.
> 
> Btw, I'm an Audiologist, we have hearing aids with SPLs reaching 150dB and I never heard anything related to eardrum injures, this IEMs don't even get close to that.



That's actually what the mesh screen on the very tip of the nozzle is for.

The black foam is for tuning the acoustic properties only. That's its only purpose, plain & simple. Specifically, it's used by some manufacturers to enhance the bass.


----------



## Podster

ArthStyle said:


> Hmm vocals wise, what's better? ZS3, ATE, ZST, ED12 or ZS5? I listen to a lot of anime songs that are female vocal heavy.


I'm inclined to go with Slater on this the ZST is my go to vocal (especially female) KZ Jury is still out on the ZS5 until I get mine, of course I'm old school KZ and even with all the new releases you have here and I have them all my second vocal KZ is the venerable ED9's followed by ATR. (Keep in mind this is just based on how I hear them) YMMV


----------



## ostewart

KS5 with silver cable ordered, now to wait the 20-40 days for them to arrive in the UK...


----------



## peskypesky

ostewart said:


> KS5 with silver cable ordered, now to wait the 20-40 days for them to arrive in the UK...


Being delivered on a bi-plane?


----------



## Comebackboy

Anyone have any conclusion on the ZS5? Been away from the CIEM scene for awhile because I was busy but then I chanced upon the ZS5 and it got me interested. I've tried the ZS3 and the ZST but I prefer the ZS3 so I was wondering how the ZS5 sounds like.

Also, what is this ZSR Pro that I keep seeing around the threads?


----------



## nocchi

trumpethead said:


> Does anyone know if the ZS5 has a crossover. I've seen no mention of it.



No crossover, here's ZS5 guts


----------



## ostewart

peskypesky said:


> Being delivered on a bi-plane?



Something like that, that's the delivery window aliexpress give to the UK...


----------



## themindfreak

Comebackboy said:


> Anyone have any conclusion on the ZS5? Been away from the CIEM scene for awhile because I was busy but then I chanced upon the ZS5 and it got me interested. I've tried the ZS3 and the ZST but I prefer the ZS3 so I was wondering how the ZS5 sounds like.
> 
> Also, what is this ZSR Pro that I keep seeing around the threads?


ZSR Pro is supposed to be the next iem after the ZS5

@slaterlovesspam @pm2lp I see thanks for the clarification


----------



## all999

nocchi said:


> No crossover, here's ZS5 guts



Where are armatures?


----------



## Cya|\|

pm2lp said:


> Btw, I'm an Audiologist, we have hearing aids with SPLs reaching 150dB and I never heard anything related to eardrum injures, this IEMs don't even get close to that.



So when using them on the stage, one doesn't have to worry if they volume is set too loud before adjusting it?


----------



## acia

ks5 is fun with mojo!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

acia said:


> ks5 is fun with mojo!


zs5*


----------



## WaffleIron (May 20, 2017)

So I saw the ZS3 mod posted in here a bit ago. Got around to measuring the differences. Honestly, don't feel the mod does enough to make the ZS3 a whole lot better, but that's just my subjective experience. My initial experiences with the ZS3 were quite positive, but as time went on they didn't do a whole lot for me. Too warm and too much mid-bass bloat. Unfortunately the measurements really didn't show a huge improvement other than the spikes being exaggerated for the most part. Sine sweep and further listening backs this up. I only did the left ear as I want to save the right ear for when I get my microphones to work on REW or ARTA. Currently waiting for an adapter to come in the post until I can do so. *Be skeptical about the measurements*. I have quite a few reservations about these measurements on android. The drop off at 63hz is really quite weird. This is probably why the midbass warmth doesnt really show up in the measurements. Crinacle also noted that android measurements do seem to be a bit weird too. Hopefully more clarification should come once I measure on desktop. I'm just using a Dayton Audio iMM-6 with the stock individual "correction curve" for the mics. Not sure if I should go about adding my own curve, but we'll see. Any input would be cool.

Here's the actual measurement:




Blue is modded, white is stock.
Stock tips were used. I personally don't like the stock tips, but I also don't like _most_ tips other than wide bore double flange tips. Just my weird ears. They don't measure a whole lot different with those tips either so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.


----------



## Slater

nocchi said:


> No crossover, here's ZS5 guts



That's a lot of superglue.


----------



## cqtek (May 20, 2017)

Hello forum.

I'm a owner of KZ ZS3 and ZST. I bought this week the KZ5 model without mic, no silver cable (It will take a month to arrive to Spain). Time ago I bought silver cable to ZS3, but I did not like the new sound, less bass and more sparkly.

I have several questions:

1- Is the gold cable better than silver? In terms of midrange/treble clarity without losing bass.
2- Is the ZST cable compatible with ZS5 model? I found ZST gold cable in AE, but no the ZS5 gold cable option.
3- Has ZS5 the enhanced bass of ZST and the vocals of ZS3? I don't like vocals on ZST, IMO I think they are unnatural, but I love ZS3 mid section.

Thank you for your help.


----------



## Holypal

all999 said:


> Where are armatures?



They're there:


----------



## Mus1c

nocchi said:


> No crossover, here's ZS5 guts


What is this crap i skip this iem for this inside stuff ahhh it ugly y kz y?


----------



## ahmadairfan

Confused between getting KZ's ZS3, ZST, and Einsear T2 (thanks to your list @Vidal lol). They're priced just about the same. I prefer soundstage and details/separation.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ahmadairfan said:


> Confused between getting KZ's ZS3, ZST, and Einsear T2 (thanks to your list @Vidal lol). They're priced just about the same. I prefer soundstage and details/separation.



Dunno about the T2, but I would take the ZST over the ZS3 if you want detailed sound.  ZS3 gives a bit of a smoother and bassier sound.


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> Dunno about the T2, but I would take the ZST over the ZS3 if you want detailed sound.  ZS3 gives a bit of a smoother and bassier sound.



Agree.

@ahmadairfan, you sure that's your only list? If you're looking for big soundstage and details there are plenty of different choices than just what you listed.


----------



## Slater

Mus1c said:


> What is this **** i skip this iem for this inside stuff ahhh it ugly y kz y?



You should see the insides of my ZS3. Has twice as much glue as that, gooped and glopped on everything. KZ must buy glue in 55 gallon drums!


----------



## WaffleIron

slaterlovesspam said:


> You should see the insides of my ZS3. Has twice as much glue as that, gooped and glopped on everything. KZ must buy glue in 55 gallon drums!



Can I ask how you opened the ZS3? I wanna use the shells for something soon. I tried using a "spudger", but it was just messing the plastic up.


----------



## pm2lp

Cya|\| said:


> So when using them on the stage, one doesn't have to worry if they volume is set too loud before adjusting it?



I was only talking about visible eardrum injuries caused by high pressure, high volumes will damage the hair cells in your inner hear, which is irreversible and might also cause tinnitus, so yes, you need to worry if the volume is too loud.

Back to the topic, you guys that own both the ZS3 and the ZST find them really that different? Is it worth spending 10€ on the ZST if I already have the ZS3?


----------



## zozito

pm2lp said:


> I was only talking about visible eardrum injuries caused by high pressure, high volumes will damage the hair cells in your inner hear, which is irreversible and might also cause tinnitus, so yes, you need to worry if the volume is too loud.
> 
> Back to the topic, you guys that own both the ZS3 and the ZST find them really that different? Is it worth spending 10€ on the ZST if I already have the ZS3?



Yes, they are, being de zst´s clearly more detailed. I´ve been using this week de zs3, and yesterday changed to zst, and I feel to be quite different.


----------



## TheWongWrong

How do I safely open up the ZST


----------



## Keller2

TheWongWrong said:


> How do I safely open up the ZST


Heat it up and then gently pry it open with a plastic tool or fingernail - it'll give after it's been heated enough. Generally 70-80 celsius is where you want it to be. 

It relies on pegs to stay together so be careful not to pull on it at an angle cause that would break the pegs.


----------



## Slater

WaffleIron said:


> Can I ask how you opened the ZS3? I wanna use the shells for something soon. I tried using a "spudger", but it was just messing the plastic up.



Explained perfectly here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1183#post-13502570


----------



## WaffleIron

slaterlovesspam said:


> Explained perfectly here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1183#post-13502570


Cheers.


----------



## ahmadairfan

slaterlovesspam said:


> Agree.
> 
> @ahmadairfan, you sure that's your only list? If you're looking for big soundstage and details there are plenty of different choices than just what you listed.



I'm open to any suggestion, but hey I bought the Einsear  T2 anyway lol. A friend of mine will buy ZST and ZS3, so I figured to buy some others.


----------



## 1clearhead

The ZS5 might look a little ugly inside, but they sound pretty good. .....Actually, really good!

So far....

The PROS:
Vocals are luscious, balance is extremely great and 3D presentation is by far the best I've heard.

The CONS:
They can't take too much power when amped, don't know if it's a QC issue or an Ohm resistance issue.


----------



## 1clearhead

....I'll know if it's a QC issue once I order and receive the blue ZS5.


----------



## WilliamCruz

1clearhead said:


> The ZS5 might look a little ugly inside, but they sound pretty good. .....Actually, really good!
> 
> So far....
> 
> ...


 
is it mid forward?


----------



## 1clearhead

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> is it mid forward?


Just a little, but more balanced than anything else.


----------



## WilliamCruz

1clearhead said:


> Just a little, but more balanced than anything else.


balanced as in V shape or do you mean neutral


----------



## 1clearhead

aaabbbcccdddaaa said:


> balanced as in V shape or do you mean neutral


....more towards neutral, but has extended highs and extended sub-bass that really makes them shine and stand out. But, they are in no means bass-head IEM's -you can hear the bass, but not rattle your senses.


----------



## Viber

1clearhead said:


> ....more towards neutral, but has extended highs and extended sub-bass that really makes them shine and stand out. But, they are in no means bass-head IEM's -you can hear the bass, but not rattle your senses.



1.How do they respond to EQ? can i make the bass more thumping or will they distort?
2.For me, all budget iems can't handle the mids in metal music, it's always too harsh and inaccurate. Are the ZS5 any different in this regard?


----------



## c0rp1

1clearhead said:


> ....more towards neutral, but has extended highs and extended sub-bass that really makes them shine and stand out. But, they are in no means bass-head IEM's -you can hear the bass, but not rattle your senses.



I know the price range is a bit different, but can the KZ ZS5 outshine Magaosi K3 Pro in any aspect?

Thanks in advance !


----------



## TheWongWrong

Keller2 said:


> Heat it up and then gently pry it open with a plastic tool or fingernail - it'll give after it's been heated enough. Generally 70-80 celsius is where you want it to be.
> 
> It relies on pegs to stay together so be careful not to pull on it at an angle cause that would break the pegs.


How do I put it back after tho do I just rely on the pegs as well and just apply some pressure for it to just click back in? Or will I need some glue


----------



## Keller2

TheWongWrong said:


> How do I put it back after tho do I just rely on the pegs as well and just apply some pressure for it to just click back in? Or will I need some glue


just putting it back together without glue and it will hold - that's how i did it on my ATE. If you want to put glue on there you could do that aswell to make sure it's super secure. I didnt see the need to though.


----------



## kiler

1clearhead said:


> ....more towards neutral, but has extended highs and extended sub-bass that really makes them shine and stand out. But, they are in no means bass-head IEM's -you can hear the bass, but not rattle your senses.


So technically they have sub-bass (like sub 50hz) while the usual mid bass hump isn't emphasized?


----------



## Cya|\|

Are the highs harsh, or do they extend smoothly with all types of music?


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> The ZS5 might look a little ugly inside, but they sound pretty good. .....Actually, really good!
> 
> The CONS:
> They can't take too much power when amped, don't know if it's a QC issue or an Ohm resistance issue.



What happens when you amp them?  I haven't tried it yet, still enjoying them directly off my phone only.  I have the blue, maybe can give it a try.
I did find the ZS5 sensitivity to be less than ZST, so was thinking that ZS5 might actually benefit with more power...

As to the other questions, no harshness at all in the highs, very smooth.  For those who found ZST sibilant at certain frequencies, my ZS5 smooths that out entirely.
Balanced is what I would say the ZS5 to be as well, everything just feels right, nothing out of place, no frequencies outshining others...I would say it's still slightly warmer than neutral but it's just right for me.  If you want TRUE neutral, get etymotics...

And the angular case fit issues went away for me after removing the memory wire from the cable.  I actually find the ZS5 to stay put in my ears better than my ZST now, I'm adjusting them less when I'm walking around.  But the smooth curves on the ZST will still be better if using them when lying down sideways in bed.


----------



## 1clearhead

ricemanhk said:


> *What happens when you amp them?*  I haven't tried it yet, still enjoying them directly off my phone only.  I have the blue, maybe can give it a try.
> I did find the ZS5 sensitivity to be less than ZST, *so was thinking that ZS5 might actually benefit with more power...*
> 
> As to the other questions, no harshness at all in the highs, very smooth.  For those who found ZST sibilant at certain frequencies, my ZS5 smooths that out entirely.
> ...


I thought that they would benefit with more power as well, but either mine has a short, or it can not handle too much from an AMP. I'm not sure until I get a second pair to compare.


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> I thought that they would benefit with more power as well, but either mine has a short, or it can not handle too much from an AMP. I'm not sure until I get a second pair to compare.



Could you describe what happens to yours when you use more power?  I can give it a try tonight and see if the same happens.


----------



## 1clearhead

Viber said:


> 1.How do they respond to EQ? can i make the bass more thumping or will they distort?
> 2.For me, all budget iems can't handle the mids in metal music, it's always too harsh and inaccurate. Are the ZS5 any different in this regard?


I can't quite answer that yet, since I rather wait for the second pair to know if it's a QC issue, or not. All I know is that it sounds great, but I can't seem to push more power; maybe an ohm impedence issue or a short.


----------



## 1clearhead

Cya|\| said:


> Are the highs harsh, or do they extend smoothly with all types of music?


They are not harsh, by all means, but they did sound grainy at first. But after 100 hours seemed to smooth out sounding crystal clear.


----------



## 1clearhead

ricemanhk said:


> Could you describe what happens to yours when you use more power?  I can give it a try tonight and see if the same happens.


They seem to stop functioning all at once as if the bass gave up and disappeared. Then you get a tiny tin-can sounding echoe effect coming from the drivers and BA's. 

....that's the best I can describe what's going on.


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> They seem to stop functioning all at once as if the bass gave up and disappeared. Then you get a tiny tin-can sounding echoe effect coming from the drivers and BA's.
> 
> ....that's the best I can describe what's going on.



OK that should be quite obvious, let me try it tonight.  It's the same for both L and R buds?
What amp are you using?  High or low gain?


----------



## 1clearhead

I've used it so far on a Musical Fidelity MX-HPA, both low and high gain, XUAN-Zu Xz-u808 Hi-fi, double vacuum tube headphone amplifier, and Luxury & Precision L5 Pro with the results pretty much ending the same on my ZS5.

.....let us know your results.


----------



## Cya|\|

That sounds great. I don't really like overly bright iems.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

looking to buy KZ zs5 from Aliexpress..i think it will be the cheapest out there..anyone have better suggestion please share..
i want to use Fiio K1 with my smartphone and KZ Zs5 with it..how you guys think about the combination..need high quality sound out of my phone in low budget..please give some light on it..
thanks in advance


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> The ZS5 might look a little ugly inside, but they sound pretty good. .....Actually, really good!
> 
> So far....
> 
> ...



Not a con for me I mean how cool to have a Hybie deliver 3D without having juice pumped into it


----------



## Cya|\|

There is a reddit "thread" where the op suggests to buy an upgraded cable. Is it really necessary? In many ciem cases, I've read that people should buy a different cable, not because the default one is not high quality enough, but because it is soldered wrongly. Is that the case with the zs5, too? Should I buy the one with silver  cable?


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Cya|\| said:


> There is a reddit "thread" where the op suggests to buy an upgraded cable. Is it really necessary? In many ciem cases, I've read that people should buy a different cable, not because the default one is not high quality enough, but because it is soldered wrongly. Is that the case with the zs5, too? Should I buy the one with silver  cable?


I also saw somewhere that people are getting significant sound improvement after adding silver cable with their IEMs (zs5)..but cannot understand the difference between silver and gold upgrade cable other than color...


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

oh great..
I just found KZ zs5 on $21 in ali! 
Just need to contact the saler to get coupon before complete the order:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Org...Earphones-FOUR-Dynamic-Noise/32813807055.html


----------



## Modulus

In response to cable questions, does anyone know how these Aliexpress merchants sell the KZs when you select the silver cable when you buy the IEM. Do you get the silver cable as well as the original black, or only the silver? 

Because buying the default black and then a separate silver is the same price as the silver option alone. 

So do they give you both when you order silver with the iem?


----------



## VinceHill24

Modulus said:


> In response to cable questions, does anyone know how these Aliexpress merchants sell the KZs when you select the silver cable when you buy the IEM. Do you get the silver cable as well as the original black, or only the silver?
> 
> Because buying the default black and then a separate silver is the same price as the silver option alone.
> 
> So do they give you both when you order silver with the iem?


Afaik the ZS5 comes in a nicely packaged retail packaging that already has the default black cable included with so if you choose for the upgrade cable option they will throw in another pair of the silver / gold cable into your order so you should have both.

Unless the seller decided to somehow offer it in bulk package version like how they usually did with some other IEMs then probably you won't get both cable. Safest bet is ask 1st before placing order


----------



## snip3r77

How does it compares to memt x5



1clearhead said:


> The ZS5 might look a little ugly inside, but they sound pretty good. .....Actually, really good!
> 
> So far....
> 
> ...


----------



## ricemanhk

OK I tried it on my desktop PC with ASUS supremefx audio (ESS DAC + amp) with low and high gain (up to 600 ohms), no difference.  With my HiFiman HE400s the high gain does make an impact (rich and faster bass), but with my experience with IEMs the extra power really doesn't do much at least for my ears.  So @1clearhead you might indeed have a dud.  

As for the silver/gold upgrade, to my ears the gold cable sounds the same as the stock cable.  It looks nicer though and the wire feels better (the stock is a slightly sticky rubber) and softer, great option if you don't need the mic.
Usually on taobao the sellers sell the upgrade cable bundle cheaper than getting the upgrade cable separately, if that's the case I would suggest to do it since 1. it's hard to find 3rd party cables for KZ, as the pins are standard 0.75mm but the housing is proprietary and 2. it's pretty cheap anyway and always nice to have a back up cable.  Also if you decide to remove the metal memory wire like me, I have some concerns on the wire relief near the earbud side, so best to have a spare cable just in case.

As with the ZS3 and ZST, getting the upgrade cable option should mean you get BOTH the stock and upgrade cables.  Especially with the ZS5 where the stock cable is inside the box with the earbuds, while the upgrade cable is in a separate box.
Also, blue ZS5 + gold just looks fantastic...I just wish the upgrade cables had mics as well which I do use frequently...


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Modulus said:


> In response to cable questions, does anyone know how these Aliexpress merchants sell the KZs when you select the silver cable when you buy the IEM. Do you get the silver cable as well as the original black, or only the silver?
> Because buying the default black and then a separate silver is the same price as the silver option alone.
> 
> So do they give you both when you order silver with the iem?



I saw some people got their zs5 with upgrade cable separately in the box.. Means they send both stock and upgrade cable if you order both.. From AliExpress..


----------



## WilliamCruz

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> I saw some people got their zs5 with upgrade cable separately in the box.. Means they send both stock and upgrade cable if you order both.. From AliExpress..



that's what the seller told me too


----------



## Slater

To all of you folks asking about these upgrade cables. I noticed that the ZS5 cable looks 100% identical to the ZS3 cable (not ZST, but ZS3). So they should be interchangeable (gold ZS5 cable on ZS3, stock ZS3 cable on ZS5, silver ZS3 upgrade cable on ZS5, stock ZS5 cable on ZS3, etc). You can buy the ZS3 silver upgrade cable by itself for as cheap as just under $5. So don't fret if you forgot to order the ZS5 with an upgrade cable - just pick one up separately if you wish. I've seen them on ebay a few times where the price was cheaper than aliexpress.

Something to keep in the back of your mind...


----------



## ricemanhk

The ZS5 and ZS3 wire housing are the same.  I mentioned this in my quick review as well.
The silver ZS3 cable has been around for a while, but the gold one is new, hence my reason for getting the gold bundle as the silver one is easy to pick up later if needed.


----------



## 1clearhead

ricemanhk said:


> OK I tried it on my desktop PC with ASUS supremefx audio (ESS DAC + amp) with low and high gain (up to 600 ohms), no difference.  With my HiFiman HE400s the high gain does make an impact (rich and faster bass), but with my experience with IEMs the extra power really doesn't do much at least for my ears.  So @1clearhead you might indeed have a dud.
> 
> As for the silver/gold upgrade, to my ears the gold cable sounds the same as the stock cable.  It looks nicer though and the wire feels better (the stock is a slightly sticky rubber) and softer, great option if you don't need the mic.
> Usually on taobao the sellers sell the upgrade cable bundle cheaper than getting the upgrade cable separately, if that's the case I would suggest to do it since 1. it's hard to find 3rd party cables for KZ, as the pins are standard 0.75mm but the housing is proprietary and 2. it's pretty cheap anyway and always nice to have a back up cable.  Also if you decide to remove the metal memory wire like me, I have some concerns on the wire relief near the earbud side, so best to have a spare cable just in case.
> ...


Thanks! I'll definitely see if I can exchange them -ASAP!


----------



## Vishal

I got pretty good discount over zs5 from below seller... 
You can contact him before purchase though.. 
http://s.aliexpress.com/fUzUNbum 

Happy listening.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Vishal said:


> I got pretty good discount over zs5 from below seller...
> You can contact him before purchase though..
> http://s.aliexpress.com/fUzUNbum
> 
> Happy listening.



How much discount you got? i mean what is the final buying price?


----------



## skajohyros

I know not many people have the zs5 yet but are they better than these.
Urbanfun
Einsear T2
Boarseman kr25d
Hybrid pro HD
Cheers


----------



## Shinry

Hard time resisting the ZS5. Now I'll need to decide between ZS5 (+another ZS3), Co-Donguri Shinzuku and Zero Audio Carbo Mezzo


----------



## 1clearhead

OK, thanks to 'ricemanhk' I was able to exchange them and will be receiving the blue ZS5 as well by the end of the week.

....if finally, QC doesn't become a factor? I will probably recommend these as some of the best budget hybrids money can buy. So, I'm hoping the next round shipped isn't a dud. Fingers crossed!


----------



## trumpethead (May 23, 2017)

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> oh great..
> I just found KZ zs5 on $21 in ali!
> Just need to contact the saler to get coupon before complete the order:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Org...Earphones-FOUR-Dynamic-Noise/32813807055.html


----------



## trumpethead (May 23, 2017)

Are there any sellers on Ali that actually have these in stock and are shipping immediately..seems like all are taking preorders but none are shipping yet??


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

trumpethead said:


> Are there any sellers on Ali that actually have these in stock and are shipping immediately..seems like all are taking preorders but none are shipping yet??


yes, thats true but few days ago some of them shipped some quantity and few buyers already got their products..maybe they are currently out of stock and waiting for the next lot..lets see when they can ship..


----------



## blazinblazin

China website Taobao still have stock, just no gold cable.

So far my set have no problem with IEM or gold cable.


----------



## Vishal

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> How much discount you got? i mean what is the final buying price?


pm me please.


----------



## Vishal

trumpethead said:


> Are there any sellers on Ali that actually have these in stock and are shipping immediately..seems like all are taking preorders but none are shipping yet??


Yes there are.. 
The one I mentioned above will do quick shipping afaik. Had good experience with him. Also if you ask and tell him you are on headfi he'll provide good discount. 
You can pm me if you want to know the price I purchased for.


----------



## ezekiel77

trumpethead said:


> Are there any sellers on Ali that actually have these in stock and are shipping immediately..seems like all are taking preorders but none are shipping yet??



Mine shipped on the 19th (I ordered during the $10 discount pre-order period). I'm awaiting its arrival.


----------



## eaglearrow

Guys, well lucky me. i too got the zs5 for $21. Leave him a message and he will adjust the price. He seemed pretty polite throughout the transaction. Hope the experience remains the same even after receiving the IEM's. If anyone's interested here's the link.  have a good one. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Org...Earphones-FOUR-Dynamic-Noise/32813807055.html


----------



## Dcell7

No luck for me in getting discounts for KZ ZS5. Tried the 2 mentioned Aliexpress sellers from the last few pages and they were willing to give 2 dollar discount at max. So the price is still around 26-28 dollar. 

I'll probably will pre-order at Banggood because i want the standard cable without mic. They only have the standard cable version with and without mic in both colors. Estimated in stock date is on june 8th. Price is now at 23 US Dollar.


----------



## ricemanhk

skajohyros said:


> I know not many people have the zs5 yet but are they better than these.
> Urbanfun
> Einsear T2
> Boarseman kr25d
> ...



In that list I only have the xiaomi pistons gen 5 (Hybrid pro HD).  ZS5 is hands down better, more bass and smoother highs without the need for port mod (haha), better 3D spatial awareness although I think the gen 5 actually sound a bit more airy.  That said I haven't done a direct A-B comparison between the 2, as my gen 5 have been lying in my drawer ever since the ZST arrived...and the ZS5 is better than ZST for me.

But still, normal IEM with the wire worn down has its benefits if you need to put on/take off frequently.  I hated the mic position of the gen 5 though, it would always catch my shirt collar.  ZS5 mic is lower, but it might mean you have to hold up the mic closer to your mouth in noisy environments.  Yes, 1st world problems...


----------



## skajohyros

ricemanhk said:


> In that list I only have the xiaomi pistons gen 5 (Hybrid pro HD).  ZS5 is hands down better, more bass and smoother highs without the need for port mod (haha), better 3D spatial awareness although I think the gen 5 actually sound a bit more airy.  That said I haven't done a direct A-B comparison between the 2, as my gen 5 have been lying in my drawer ever since the ZST arrived...and the ZS5 is better than ZST for me.
> 
> But still, normal IEM with the wire worn down has its benefits if you need to put on/take off frequently.  I hated the mic position of the gen 5 though, it would always catch my shirt collar.  ZS5 mic is lower, but it might mean you have to hold up the mic closer to your mouth in noisy environments.  Yes, 1st world problems...


Thanks mate for the reply. I have the kr25d and pro HD but was considering the Urbans and T2 when zs5 came out. Need a new toy.


----------



## Modulus

I got a response from the seller **** about which cables you get if you order a silver or gold. They confirmed you will always get the original cable (whether you choose with mic or without) plus the extra silver or gold cable. I placed my order. Now the waiting begins...


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

ezekiel77 said:


> Mine shipped on the 19th (I ordered during the $10 discount pre-order period). I'm awaiting its arrival.



Lucky you.. My seller replied today that the zs5 is now very hot cake and the factory will take more time to deliver it to them..upto 14 days..My God.. I wish my one also shipped with yours..anyways Let us know when u got your zs5 in hand.. Thanks.


----------



## loomisjohnson

slaterlovesspam said:


> To all of you folks asking about these upgrade cables. I noticed that the ZS5 cable looks 100% identical to the ZS3 cable (not ZST, but ZS3). So they should be interchangeable (gold ZS5 cable on ZS3, stock ZS3 cable on ZS5, silver ZS3 upgrade cable on ZS5, stock ZS5 cable on ZS3, etc). You can buy the ZS3 silver upgrade cable by itself for as cheap as just under $5. So don't fret if you forgot to order the ZS5 with an upgrade cable - just pick one up separately if you wish. I've seen them on ebay a few times where the price was cheaper than aliexpress.
> 
> Something to keep in the back of your mind...


well, i went back and did


slaterlovesspam said:


> That's actually what the mesh screen on the very tip of the nozzle is for.
> 
> The black foam is for tuning the acoustic properties only. That's its only purpose, plain & simple. Specifically, it's used by some manufacturers to enhance the bass.


well i went back and attempted the slater modification on the zs3--unless i'm blind (a distinct possibility) my sample did not have the black tuning foam. however the red mesh screen, which i did remove, is acoustically impervious--it's hardly pourous at all--and undoubtedly contributed to the sorta veiled, lofi treble quality. the mod does improve things significantly.


----------



## chinmie

loomisjohnson said:


> well i went back and attempted the slater modification on the zs3--unless i'm blind (a distinct possibility) my sample did not have the black tuning foam. however the red mesh screen, which i did remove, is acoustically impervious--it's hardly pourous at all--and undoubtedly contributed to the sorta veiled, lofi treble quality. the mod does improve things significantly.



confirmed then. my ZS3 also didn't have the tuning foams


----------



## khighly

Ordered the ZS5 today. Will put up a review when I receive them.


----------



## Pete7

chinmie said:


> confirmed then. my ZS3 also didn't have the tuning foams



My ZS3's didn't have the foam inside either, but I did replace the plastic red screens with some steel mesh screens I ordered from aliexpress. Sounds a little more open.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...32800734441.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.XteZjY


----------



## Drakis

Pete7 said:


> My ZS3's didn't have the foam inside either, but I did replace the plastic red screens with some steel mesh screens I ordered from aliexpress. Sounds a little more open.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...32800734441.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.XteZjY



What diameter did you order?


----------



## groucho69

Vishal said:


> Yes there are..
> The one I mentioned above will do quick shipping afaik. Had good experience with him. Also if you ask and tell him you are on headfi he'll provide good discount.
> You can pm me if you want to know the price I purchased for.



This seller was very good and replied almost immediately to a long list of questions. Excellent English and very patient.


----------



## Pete7

Drakis said:


> What diameter did you order?



It comes in a package with a variety of sizes in pairs (3.7 mm, 4 mm, 4.3 mm, 4.7 mm and 5 mm). The correct size for KZ3 is 4.3 mm. KZT has a slightly larger nozzle and uses 4.7 mm.


----------



## nicermog

This might be a totally obvious but, how do I detach the cables for my KZ ATR? I want to try and put in a chin slider of sorts and need them off to put it in but I don't want to pull too hard or do it wrong and break it.


----------



## B9Scrambler

nicermog said:


> This might be a totally obvious but, how do I detach the cables for my KZ ATR? I want to try and put in a chin slider of sorts and need them off to put it in but I don't want to pull too hard or do it wrong and break it.



They don't have removable cables. To detach them you'll have to disassemble the housing, then re-solder the wires when you're done. You can always use a twist tie as a chin cinch. Works well enough.


----------



## Slater

Pete7 said:


> It comes in a package with a variety of sizes in pairs (3.7 mm, 4 mm, 4.3 mm, 4.7 mm and 5 mm). The correct size for KZ3 is 4.3 mm. KZT has a slightly larger nozzle and uses 4.7 mm.



4mm was the correct size to use on mine. 4.3mm was too large.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1171#post-13484497


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> They don't have removable cables. To detach them you'll have to disassemble the housing, then re-solder the wires when you're done. You can always use a twist tie as a chin cinch. Works well enough.



Yeah, that is a good method, or you can use the little velcro wire wrap that KZ used to include on most of their IEMs (before they switched a lot of them to a plain bread bag-type twistie). When using the velcro wrap, you only need to cut a really tiny strip, like 1/2" long and 2-3mm wide. Just enough to wrap the velcro around the wires and back onto itself. It looks a lot cleaner than using a plastic zip tie.

I can post a photo if anyone is interested in seeing what it looks like or what size strip to cut...


----------



## Pete7

slaterlovesspam said:


> 4mm was the correct size to use on mine. 4.3mm was too large.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1171#post-13484497


 
I did push the edges of the 4.3 mm in just a little on the KS3. Didn't think to try the 4 mm.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> well i went back and attempted the slater modification on the zs3--unless i'm blind (a distinct possibility) my sample did not have the black tuning foam. however the red mesh screen, which i did remove, is acoustically impervious--it's hardly pourous at all--and undoubtedly contributed to the sorta veiled, lofi treble quality. the mod does improve things significantly.



Yeah, it is becoming more clear that KZ used the foam on some versions of the ZS3 and no foam on others. I don't know if there was no foam in early revisions and they added it in later revisions, or vice versa. It may also have something to do with the satin black vs glossy black version too.

I do know that a few people reported that their satin black ones did NOT having foam.

In any case, I totally agree with you that regardless of foam or no foam, the red screen is way too restrictive and has a lot to do with the veiled sound. I am very happy with mine once I added the stainless screen (and experienced no noticeable difference with the stainless screen vs no screen at all). Taking into account the protection having ANY screen affords, the order of preference would be:

*stainless screen > no screen > red screen*​


----------



## Slater

Pete7 said:


> I did push the edges of the 4.3 mm in just a little on the KS3. Didn't think to try the 4 mm.



Likewise, I didn't think to squeeze the 4.3mm on there to make it fit LOL

I'm honestly surprised there's even a 4mm vs 4.3mm size at all! That's the thickness of a business card! I can't imagine the industry really needing 2 nozzle sizes so close together.


----------



## Shadab Nabil

Can anyone suggest me which kz iem to go for at around 10 bucks?
Currently confused between Ate, Ate s, Atr, zs3.

TIA


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Shadab Nabil said:


> Can anyone suggest me which kz iem to go for at around 10 bucks?
> Currently confused between Ate, Ate s, Atr, zs3.
> 
> TIA



ZS3 hands down for me.

Detachable cable, better clarity, more ergonomic fit.


----------



## Shadab Nabil (May 25, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> ZS3 hands down for me.
> 
> Detachable cable, better clarity, more ergonomic fit.


I'm also keen to get that but I want kinda more low end & I have heard that zs3 is high oriented. Skeptical about the fit as well.


----------



## ezekiel77

Shadab Nabil said:


> I'm also keen to get that but I want kinda more low end & I have heard that zs3 is high oriented



Not sure where you heard that, but of the recent KZ "good-to-haves" (ZS3, ZST, ATR), ZS3 is the warmest and bassiest. From what I've heard myself, the ED9 is more high-oriented.


----------



## probability99

getting zs3 as well 

Wanna get another normal in ear, kz in ear any good? prefer the cheaper model


----------



## Shadab Nabil

Okay.... Thanks......I can now lock on to the Zs3
Just wish my unit doesn't have any QC issues which are common among KZ


----------



## SomeTechNoob

So far I'm 4/4 good units when it comes to my KZs.  Haven't really had any issues.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

ricemanhk said:


> OK so I couldn't wait   Did some A-B testing on HDTracks headphone test disc flac files with KZ ZS5 vs ZST vs UE Triplefi10s shootout (my currently available IEMs) and here are my thoughts:
> 
> Sensitivity.  TF10s is most sensitive and by a fair margin, while the ZST is slightly more sensitive then ZS5.  I guess more DDs take more power to drive. This might also mean potentially more scalability with amping for the ZS5?
> 
> ...







1clearhead said:


> Wow! So far I've been burning and listening to the KZ ZS5, since Sunday (today being Wednesday in Beijing, China) and I have to say that these are a winner! ....Well? as long as QC factors don't arise.
> 
> Amazingly for the ZS5, 3D and hi-end RES is by far the best in my collection even beating my priced M1221 and K3 HD in that certain area per say. Though, overall clarity still goes to the M1221, while the K3 HD still holds its own for a linear presentation.
> 
> I'll try to download some PIC's when I get a chance.....



What about the DAC (Fiio K1) performance for low impedance rated IEM like ZS5..Do Zs5 really need external DAC for using with a smartphone? For getting better sound quality
I heard balance armature driver sometime fluctuate the impedance level for certain frequencies. Zs5 have 2 BA. 
Please light up this matter...
Thanks


----------



## ricemanhk

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> What about the DAC (Fiio K1) performance for low impedance rated IEM like ZS5..Do Zs5 really need external DAC for using with a smartphone? For getting better sound quality
> I heard balance armature driver sometime fluctuate the impedance level for certain frequencies. Zs5 have 2 BA.
> Please light up this matter...
> Thanks



I think you're mixing up DAC and AMP.  Impedance/sensitivity is related to power and resistance, and that's handled by the amp.  ZS5, like all IEMs, is low impedance, with 2 BA + 2 DD I found them slightly less sensitive (on the same output) than ZST or my UE triplefi10s.  But all 3 of these do not need more power than what a normal smartphone or DAP can provide.  BAs especially do not need more power, as they require so little energy to move.  DDs will need a bit more, but at normal listening levels it's not that much more.  I am usually using 50% of my smartphone volume indoors and perhaps 70% when outside.

Meanwhile DAC is related to sampling and conversion.  Better DACs can often provide better sound quality (assuming you have good quality files), this is independent to the amp and power requirements of your headphones.

So to your question, yes K1 could improve sound quality but it will be mainly due to dedicated DAC and not the amp.  I don't know what you are referring to for BA fluctuate impedance level, but I didn't notice any issues when using my ZS5 on an amp on high gain during testing.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

ricemanhk said:


> I think you're mixing up DAC and AMP.  Impedance/sensitivity is related to power and resistance, and that's handled by the amp.  ZS5, like all IEMs, is low impedance, with 2 BA + 2 DD I found them slightly less sensitive (on the same output) than ZST or my UE triplefi10s.  But all 3 of these do not need more power than what a normal smartphone or DAP can provide.  BAs especially do not need more power, as they require so little energy to move.  DDs will need a bit more, but at normal listening levels it's not that much more.  I am usually using 50% of my smartphone volume indoors and perhaps 70% when outside.
> 
> Meanwhile DAC is related to sampling and conversion.  Better DACs can often provide better sound quality (assuming you have good quality files), this is independent to the amp and power requirements of your headphones.
> 
> So to your question, yes K1 could improve sound quality but it will be mainly due to dedicated DAC and not the amp.  I don't know what you are referring to for BA fluctuate impedance level, but I didn't notice any issues when using my ZS5 on an amp on high gain during testing.


excellent reply..thanks for the wide explanation..Fiio K1 is DAC and Amp but a budget device for entry level. I think i should get one for my smartphone to use it with Zs5 for better performance as you explained.
Thanks again


----------



## ricemanhk

Yep, the K1 (and really most fiio products) are a great way to try out portable DAC+amp at a low price.  Bear in mind though that the K1 draws all its power from the USB connection, it has no battery of its own.  Not all phones can output power/enough power from the OTG cable for this.
For better compatibility, Q1, E17/E18 and those have their own battery so that the USB connection is purely for data.  Still, some phones don't play nice so check the forums for compatibility lists before buying.

Meanwhile I haven't done much testing yet on high vs low quality files for the ZS5, but judging from my podcasts, ZS5 handles lower quality files pretty well, whereas the ZST is less kind to low quality output.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Does the KZ silver cable do anything other than lowering impedance by a bit? What are the improvements over the standard cable if there are any? The plug on my ZST's standard cable is starting to go after 3 months, which is a bit disappointing, hoped it would last longer without this kinda wear and tear


----------



## cybstorm (May 25, 2017)

Hi guys,

I have been reading up on the KZ ZS5 and have a few questions...

1. Understand that some of you have purchased it as a package with the gold cable.  Have been searching on AE for similar packages but all of those available come only with silver cable as an option.  Does the gold cable need to be purchased separately?
2. The ear phones look really angular in design.  Has anyone experienced discomfort over prolonged periods of usage?  I know this really depends on individual but would like to get some feedback all the same.
3. There seems to be 2 retail boxes available.  A bigger rectangular box without window and a smaller box with a window.  Are the contents similar in both retail boxes?  With ear buds, ear hook and stock cable?
4. How well does the cable connect to the phones with the 2-pin connector?  With my current IEMs, I do accidentally pull on the cables sometimes.  I hope these are secure enough not to come loose with a bit of tugging... 

Thanks!


----------



## WaffleIron (May 25, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, it is becoming more clear that KZ used the foam on some versions of the ZS3 and no foam on others. I don't know if there was no foam in early revisions and they added it in later revisions, or vice versa. It may also have something to do with the satin black vs glossy black version too.
> 
> I do know that a few people reported that their satin black ones did NOT having foam.
> 
> ...



I got my ZS3's pretty recently so I'm inclined to believe it is the earlier models that may have not had foam.


----------



## khighly

TheWongWrong said:


> Does the KZ silver cable do anything other than lowering impedance by a bit? What are the improvements over the standard cable if there are any? The plug on my ZST's standard cable is starting to go after 3 months, which is a bit disappointing, hoped it would last longer without this kinda wear and tear



Makes it look nice is about all. I find the silver cable to be only slightly more durable than the stock one. Different cables don't change sound quality, especially unshielded cables like these.


----------



## khighly

cybstorm said:


> 4. How well does the cable connect to the phones with the 2-pin connector?  With my current IEMs, I do accidentally pull on the cables sometimes.  I hope these are secure enough not to come loose with a bit of tugging...
> 
> Thanks!



I don't know about the ZS5's but KZ has a pretty snug connector. I've never accidentally pulled out the cable from any of my KZ iems. It would be really tough.


----------



## WaffleIron

khighly said:


> I don't know about the ZS5's but KZ has a pretty snug connector. I've never accidentally pulled out the cable from any of my KZ iems. It would be really tough.



Judging from images, the ZS3 has the exact same socket as the ZS5. Doubt cables will be falling out any time soon as long as they're the right pin size.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

TheWongWrong said:


> Does the KZ silver cable do anything other than lowering impedance by a bit? What are the improvements over the standard cable if there are any? The plug on my ZST's standard cable is starting to go after 3 months, which is a bit disappointing, hoped it would last longer without this kinda wear and tear


The silver cable also has significantly less cable noise than the stock cable.


----------



## ustinj

KZ ZS5 measurement


----------



## Holypal

ustinj said:


> KZ ZS5 measurement




Wow, Looks pretty good.


----------



## ustinj

Holypal said:


> Wow, Looks pretty good.


They sound miles ahead of the ZS3 (which I found to be a dark messy IEM)


----------



## Cya|\|

ustinj said:


> KZ ZS5 measurement



Can this be added to Crinacle's thread?


----------



## ustinj

Cya|\| said:


> Can this be added to Crinacle's thread?


No, our mics measure a little bit differently (even though it's the same mic) -- in comparison to mine, his Andromeda measurement has more overall bass presence between 50-750hz.


----------



## Keller2

Any word on the ZSR / new Audio Technica with window clone?


----------



## Pankaj135

Just got replacement KZ ATE from Aliexpress and KZ ATR and KZ ZS3 from Gearbest.

ATR seems the clearest of the bunch. Slightly bigger soundstage than the ATE but fatiguing and boring. I can't wear them for more than an hour. 

ZS3 has good good seal very comfortable to wear, until you play some music. It's a bit bass heavy and sounds bloated to me. Soundstage seems 3D and very good but I can't handle the bass. It's not totally bass heavy but for me it's a bit too much.

ATE & ATES sound literally the same to me. Note that these are both 5th generation. In earlier generations there might be some differences (could someone confirm? I've checked @CoiL description of KZ ATE versions.)  The sound is more intimate and has little bit bass which I like. Though the soundstage is less these are non fatiguing (I can wear them for hours). I like them the most.

On other hand I checked my brother's KZ EDR2. It's even more clear than ATR and has the same soundstage with little bit of bass. Most comfortable to wear and apparently cheapest of the bunch (most durable metal body too). A bit fatiguing. These make me question why are not these hyped? 

I checked these earphones on Samsung Galaxy S3 (Wolfson dac Exynos version) & Xiaomi Redmi 2 Prime (Snapdragon dac). ZS3 sounds the same on both but ATE & ATR sounds better on Samsung. 

On other note KZ tips supplied with these Earphone are horrible! They are hard and don't stay in my ears. Could someone tell me will there be an improvement with KZ star tips?


----------



## ricemanhk

cybstorm said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have been reading up on the KZ ZS5 and have a few questions...
> 
> ...



1. Taobao stores are selling packages with either silver or gold.  I guess AE just doesn't have enough gold cables yet, as the silver cable is the exact same one as the ZS3 silver cable.
2. With the memory wire intact, there's some discomfort.  But after taking the memory wire out, it's much better for me.  Still not as comfy as ZS3/ZST, but I wouldn't say there's any discomfort even after an hour or 2 of use.
3. I haven't seen the smaller box before.  All the pics online from others and my own box as well are the big cardboard box.
4. Extremely tight, the wire will NOT come out without a fair amount of force

You can also see my previous review posts and pics for further info.


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> 1. Taobao stores are selling packages with either silver or gold.  I guess AE just doesn't have enough gold cables yet, as the silver cable is the exact same one as the ZS3 silver cable.
> 2. With the memory wire intact, there's some discomfort.  But after taking the memory wire out, it's much better for me.  Still not as comfy as ZS3/ZST, but I wouldn't say there's any discomfort even after an hour or 2 of use.
> 3. I haven't seen the smaller box before.  All the pics online from others and my own box as well are the big cardboard box.
> 4. Extremely tight, the wire will NOT come out without a fair amount of force
> ...


I had asked about the "gold" cable few days back and KZ told me they temporarily discontinued the "gold" cable. I'm not sure why as they never give a reason for that but that explains why "gold" cable is no longer available. If you notice some of those Taobao store that had launched the ZS5 the earliest also no longer sell the package with "gold" cable, likely no more inventory of it.

As my usual browsing on China Alibaba i did come across 100% similar design cable and according to them it's a silver plated cable within but just gold colour material that gives the gold appearance. I think KZ may be using the same material as well. That factory even have various colours: blue, pink, red etc.. and available for various connection type BUT excluding the ZS3/ZS5 & ZST connection so apparently yes it is proprietary to KZ.


----------



## VinceHill24

ustinj said:


> KZ ZS5 measurement


Nice! That's pretty fast you got yours. So how does it sounds ? A comparison with the TFZ KING would be great !


----------



## ricemanhk

VinceHill24 said:


> I had asked about the "gold" cable few days back and KZ told me they temporarily discontinued the "gold" cable. I'm not sure why as they never give a reason for that but that explains why "gold" cable is no longer available. If you notice some of those Taobao store that had launched the ZS5 the earliest also no longer sell the package with "gold" cable, likely no more inventory of it.
> 
> As my usual browsing on China Alibaba i did come across 100% similar design cable and according to them it's a silver plated cable within but just gold colour material that gives the gold appearance. I think KZ may be using the same material as well. That factory even have various colours: blue, pink, red etc.. and available for various connection type BUT excluding the ZS3/ZS5 & ZST connection so apparently yes it is proprietary to KZ.



Yeah seems the gold cables are all gone now, and I'm glad I got the gold one in the first batch heh.
I also agree from physical appearance wise it looks gold/yellow and not the same color as with the gold alloy plug.  So I would also suspect it's still a silver plated cable with some gold sheath on top.  They are not stupid enough to use more expensive materials without improvement in performance...

But appearance-wise, the gold cable is awesome match with the blue...


----------



## ArthStyle

Ordered the ZST, has anyone tried the bluetooth cable for the ZST? Is it worth the purchase? Or should I just buy a ZS3 instead of a bluetooth cable?


----------



## TheWongWrong

khighly said:


> Makes it look nice is about all. I find the silver cable to be only slightly more durable than the stock one. Different cables don't change sound quality, especially unshielded cables like these.


 well yeah, in my opinion I'd think it wouldn't change anything in terms of sound either but I wouldn't mind hearing what some people might think changed after using a different cable. Anyways,  how did you come to find out that it's more durable? Did you do some kinda test or is it just an assumption?


----------



## sas69

Hi guys, today I received a message from AliExpress seller from the "Tendway Electronic Store". They told me that the original packaging of the KZ ZS5 is sold only to their local Chinese customers. As I am a foregner they can only send me the other packaging( check the image below ).
Do I accept the deal? I'm affraid they might be fake but giving the fact that I payed only $22 I might accept the deal...

What do you think guys?


----------



## Sylmar (May 26, 2017)

sas69 said:


> Hi guys, today I received a message from AliExpress seller from the "Tendway Electronic Store". They told me that the original packaging of the KZ ZS5 is sold only to their local Chinese customers. As I am a foregner they can only send me the other packaging( check the image below ).
> Do I accept the deal? I'm affraid they might be fake but giving the fact that I payed only $22 I might accept the deal...
> 
> What do you think guys?


I wouldn't worry too much about packaging. I've had lots of times gotten IEMS in packaging that was different to what I was expecting but it was the genuine item every time.


----------



## Saoshyant

It's a shame however.  I really liked the look of the Chinese packaging.


----------



## Sylmar (May 26, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> It's a shame however.  I really liked the look of the Chinese packaging.


I'd rather have the Chinese packaging as well but perhaps we get a cheaper packaging to compensate for the costs of international shipping? It would make sense.


----------



## Saoshyant

Sylmar said:


> I'd rather have the Chinese packaging as well but perhaps we get a cheaper packaging to compensate for the costs of international shipping? It would make sense.



Generally, giving the option to pay more for the better packaging never hurts.  I'd probably take the cheaper packaging in all honesty, but then again I might pay a few bucks more to cover the shipping.  In the grand scheme of things, however, I'll just be putting this in my KZ case anyways.


----------



## VinceHill24

As far as i know the Chinese version packaging is about 2$ more expensive so probably they're cutting cost so that they can earn more with the simple packaging form.


----------



## Cya|\|

What do you mean? If it were done by him, would the frequency range from 50 to 750hz look lower or higher?


----------



## Keller2

sas69 said:


> Hi guys, today I received a message from AliExpress seller from the "Tendway Electronic Store". They told me that the original packaging of the KZ ZS5 is sold only to their local Chinese customers. As I am a foregner they can only send me the other packaging( check the image below ).
> Do I accept the deal? I'm affraid they might be fake but giving the fact that I payed only $22 I might accept the deal...
> 
> What do you think guys?




Just cancelled my order from NiceHCK 

The new packaging just plain bad.

Why would KZ do this ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

sas69 said:


> Hi guys, today I received a message from AliExpress seller from the "Tendway Electronic Store". They told me that the original packaging of the KZ ZS5 is sold only to their local Chinese customers. As I am a foregner they can only send me the other packaging( check the image below ).
> Do I accept the deal? I'm affraid they might be fake but giving the fact that I payed only $22 I might accept the deal...
> 
> What do you think guys?



That's a bummer. The foreigner packaging is the same as that for the ZS3, ED12, and ZST so highly unlikely it's fake. Like others said, probably helps keep shipping costs down.


----------



## Holypal

sas69 said:


> Hi guys, today I received a message from AliExpress seller from the "Tendway Electronic Store". They told me that the original packaging of the KZ ZS5 is sold only to their local Chinese customers. As I am a foregner they can only send me the other packaging( check the image below ).
> Do I accept the deal? I'm affraid they might be fake but giving the fact that I payed only $22 I might accept the deal...
> 
> What do you think guys?



I also prefer the first packaging. However, it's much bigger and probably cost more to deliver due to the size.


----------



## Keller2

Holypal said:


> I also prefer the first packaging. However, it's much bigger and probably cost more to deliver due to the size.


9 times out of 10 delivery is bottlenecked by weight rather than volume/


----------



## Cya|\|

ustinj said:


> No, our mics measure a little bit differently (even though it's the same mic) -- in comparison to mine, his Andromeda measurement has more overall bass presence between 50-750hz.



What do you mean? If it were done by him, would the frequency range from 50 to 750hz look lower or higher?


----------



## B9Scrambler (May 26, 2017)

Keller2 said:


> 9 times out of 10 delivery is bottlenecked by weight rather than volume/




I inquired about it with a seller. To Canada, shipping costs would increase about 6 CAD if using E-Packet. That's pretty significant when they're dealing with the volume of sales I'm expecting the ZS5 to drive, imo.


----------



## brunonascimento

This seller gives discount if you send a message

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/Orgi...Earphones-FOUR-Dynamic-Noise/32813807055.html


----------



## khighly

TheWongWrong said:


> well yeah, in my opinion I'd think it wouldn't change anything in terms of sound either but I wouldn't mind hearing what some people might think changed after using a different cable. Anyways,  how did you come to find out that it's more durable? Did you do some kinda test or is it just an assumption?



Cables do not effect sound when they're unshielded cables. Even shielded cables you won't be able to tell a difference. Anyone saying cables change sound in a way that's noticable by the human ear is experiencing the placebo effect. Don't get fooled. Check the link in my signature.

Silver cable is braided and has lasted me since November on my ZST. One of my original stock cables has not.


----------



## khighly

Keller2 said:


> Just cancelled my order from NiceHCK
> 
> The new packaging just plain bad.
> 
> Why would KZ do this ?



Really? You cancelled your order over two versions of insanely cheap Chinese packaging? 

Too funny.


----------



## Cya|\|

Ok so silver cable is more resistant. Since the stock cable only lasts a few months, the silver one is almost mandatory. What about comfort and microfonics? Is the silver cable much better in those areas, too?


----------



## groucho69

Holypal said:


> I also prefer the first packaging. However, it's much bigger and probably cost more to deliver due to the size.



Is everything the same as far as contents? That's all I care about.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

groucho69 said:


> Is everything the same as far as contents? That's all I care about.



I got a message from the seller saying everything is the same, same number of tips and whatnot, and I said thats fine please ship them


----------



## Slater (May 26, 2017)

khighly said:


> Cables do not effect sound when they're unshielded cables. Even shielded cables you won't be able to tell a difference. Anyone saying cables change sound in a way that's noticable by the human ear is experiencing the placebo effect. Don't get fooled. Check the link in my signature.
> 
> Silver cable is braided and has lasted me since November on my ZST. One of my original stock cables has not.



What about cable lifters? LOL


----------



## blazinblazin (May 26, 2017)

Cheaper cables with headphones hard to hear a difference. Moon Audio cables, i had a Silver Dragon for my on-ear headphone, forget it. Very minimal to no difference can be heard.

IEM will be easier to hear a difference, try OC studio 8 braid Orpheus MK5 cable for use with IEM or if able to 16 braid for headphones


----------



## acia

silver or gold plated cable for kz a good idea?  or to have both??


----------



## ustinj

Cya|\| said:


> What do you mean? If it were done by him, would the frequency range from 50 to 750hz look lower or higher?


It's a negligible difference, they would probably look very similar but it's best not to mix measurements from two different setups..


----------



## ustinj (May 26, 2017)

Concise thoughts on the KZ ZS5

1. Nice tight bass presentation, not loose / uncontrolled like the ZS3. This bass is tight and well done. It doesn't overpower the lower mids like many cheap IEMs in this price range.
2. Good vocal clarity, but separation between lower mids and upper mids is a bit vague at times (feels confused)
3. Upper midrange can sometimes sound frail or tinny making the overall female vocal presentation a bit nasally
4. Nice texture to the lower midrange.
5. Treble is excellent, not overly harsh and collects a lot of detail. Not extremely sparkly.
6. Overall a balanced sound signature without being heavily v-shaped, great bass tuning for $30. I was expecting garbage from the previous KZ I tried but this was a nice surprise -- I think in terms of technicalities it performs on the level of something like the Pinnacle P1.
8. In terms of 3d imaging, I find the imaging of the TFZ Exclusive King to be more impressive in spacial placement

Well worth the $30 -- you probably won't find a tuning this mature at this price elsewhere.0

FYI These shells are larger than the actual Campfire shells. I wish they had an original design for this IEM because it sounds very damn good for $30. But I can only reluctantly recommend it for its blatantly ripped-off design, IMO it's pretty hideous compared to the actual Campfire shells. The plastic groove between the two pressed pieces is uneven and gluey, plus the appeal of the original Campfires was largely due to the CNC metal. I find the fit on the Andromeda to be more comfortable due to the heftier weight.


----------



## VinceHill24

ustinj said:


> Concise thoughts on the KZ ZS5
> 
> 1. Nice tight bass presentation, not loose / uncontrolled like the ZS3. This bass is tight and well done. It doesn't overpower the lower mids like many cheap IEMs in this price range.
> 2. Good vocal clarity, but separation between lower mids and upper mids is a bit vague at times (feels confused)
> ...


Nice impression ! Eager to find out about it soon. Performing at the level of Pinnacle P1 @ just a mere 30$ or even less i guess for those preordered, that's just unbelievable.


----------



## groucho69

Oscar-HiFi said:


> I got a message from the seller saying everything is the same, same number of tips and whatnot, and I said thats fine please ship them



Yup I got the same later.


----------



## trollin863

So some good news regarding my 1st order of KZ headphones from GearBest.

I recieved my order yesterday! Much earlier than expected as well. Matter of fact took exactly 11 days from the date I ordered from GB for them to get to me in Florida. Thats some good service. 

The 1.50 I paid for shipping was more than worth it. I decided to use USA Priority. Though there was another option for slightly over 2 dollars called USA Express I considered going with. After my experience, think the USA Priority option is likely the fastest. Interestingly enough with this option(USA Priority)GB uses a shipper called SF Express and they seem very quick at least for me. Basically my package went from China to the US(Los Angeles) in about a week. Then about 4 days from Los Angeles to get to me in Florida. You do need to use 17track.net or aftership.com to be able to track the package though.

My order contained 2 ed4s, 1 atr, and 1 kz3. 

So far just tried the ed4s and they are better than I was lead to believe. The stock tips are sucky though. Put some Sony hybrids(mediums) on the ed4s last night and they sound so much better. Next ill try some foams on the ed4s. 

For rap music the ed4s arent great but they are decent. (rock music so far doesnt sound good in particular electric guitars) The highs for rap music is ok... quite loud but not terrible quality. Not great but tolerable. The mids and the bass kind of hits hard which is cool 

Once I find the right eartip and play around with the EQ these ed4s I think will sound above average for an iem.

Great value for 4 dollars.


----------



## blazinblazin (May 26, 2017)

After comparing ZS5 default cable with mic and gold cable.

IMO no difference in sound.

Source setup... X5II + E12A amp.


----------



## ustinj

blazinblazin said:


> After comparing ZS5 default cable with mic and gold cable.
> 
> IMO no difference in sound.
> 
> Source setup... X5II + E12A amp.


Yep, also found no difference in sound. However, the original cable is grippy / sticky rubber and gets a bit annoying.


----------



## WilliamCruz

probably just a gold coloured cable


----------



## bhazard

When I started this thread I was hoping KZ would catch on. They've really matured to the point that they could be picked up by a major audio company or make semi-mainstream strides on their own. I wished for a hybrid from them awhile ago, and now they have a 4 driver for $30.

I have the ZS5 incoming as well, so I'll take measurements asap.


----------



## chinmie

after finding that my ZS3 doesn't have the black tuning foam inside, i decided to try and reverse the @slaterlovesspam mod by inserting thin VE monk foams inside the red nozzle, and also a little bit to cover the top (replacing the original red mesh). From what i found, i like it better this way. the mid and treble quantity are reduced but maintaining details. without foams, the treble is harsh and shouty. the bass also increased. it adds bloom to the bass, but still managed not to interfere with the mid bass frequency. it still good enough to listen to fast metal music


----------



## trollin863 (May 27, 2017)

chinmie said:


> after finding that my ZS3 doesn't have the black tuning foam inside, i decided to try and reverse the @slaterlovesspam mod by inserting thin VE monk foams inside the red nozzle, and also a little bit to cover the top (replacing the original red mesh). From what i found, i like it better this way. the mid and treble quantity are reduced but maintaining details. without foams, the treble is harsh and shouty. the bass also increased. it adds bloom to the bass, but still managed not to interfere with the mid bass frequency. it still good enough to listen to fast metal music



Interesting observations. I have yet to open my box of zs3s I received on Thursday. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the zs3s are glossy on the outside, that's a newer batch without the tuning foam?

I was actually thinking of not removing the foam just cause I don't want to screw anything up (even though it seems easy the hardest part from what I gather is removing the screen)

Also I like the low end of the spectrum, sub bass the most. Being that I listen to rap well over 90% of the time, being able to hit the low notes is of vital importance to my listening experience.

And according to you the bass hits harder with the foam in the nozzles? I don't like punchy bass, I'm talking more along the lines of Earth shattering quake bass. Which when you said boomier bass assumed you meant less punchy and more like the bass I enjoy. Because again correct me if I'm wrong but removing the foam increases the mids and treble whilst at the same time lessening the bass. Seems like the opposite of what I'm looking for. But it makes sense why it's popular to do with guys here because they're looking for a more balanced neutral sounding earphone that represents the full spectrum accurately.

Well one things for sure if I like the ed4s then I can't wait to listen to the atrs and the zs3s which are supposed to be much better sounding earphones.


----------



## chinmie

trollin863 said:


> Interesting observations. I have yet to open my box of zs3s I received on Thursday. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the zs3s are glossy on the outside, that's a newer batch without the tuning foam?
> 
> I was actually thinking of not removing the foam just cause I don't want to screw anything up (even though it seems easy the hardest part from what I gather is removing the screen)
> 
> ...



mine is the glossy one, but from what others have found, the ones without foams are the older batch. 

with foams, the bass is more boom than thump/thud. it increase the sub bass, and also soften the mids and treble part. 

the slatermod indeed makes the ZS3 more neutral, but to me the end result is still an inferior sounding compared to the ATR's neutral sound (but the ZS3 still wins in soundstage). the ZS3 without foams to my ears have a little harsh and peaky high mid and treble

to my personal taste, i like it better to have the ZS3 really bass heavy, so i prefer to have foams inside. using the VE monk foams really soften the mids and treble but not to the point of muting or veiling the frequency.


----------



## Cya|\|

ustinj said:


> Concise thoughts on the KZ ZS5
> 
> 1. Nice tight bass presentation, not loose / uncontrolled like the ZS3. This bass is tight and well done. It doesn't overpower the lower mids like many cheap IEMs in this price range.
> 2. Good vocal clarity, but separation between lower mids and upper mids is a bit vague at times (feels confused)
> ...



Nice. Thx for the critical and honest stance.


----------



## Pankaj135

Someone's uploaded unboxing on YouTube


----------



## CoiL (May 27, 2017)

sas69 said:


> Hi guys, today I received a message from AliExpress seller from the "Tendway Electronic Store". They told me that the original packaging of the KZ ZS5 is sold only to their local Chinese customers. As I am a foregner they can only send me the other packaging( check the image below ).
> Do I accept the deal? I'm affraid they might be fake but giving the fact that I payed only $22 I might accept the deal...
> 
> What do you think guys?



I ordered also from same place but since I`m going to re-shell them anyway with wood, then I don`t care about packaging etc.
Will confirm if anything is fake when I receive them.


----------



## Skullophile

So if there's no crossover in the ZS5 dividing frequencies does it make for a thick warm sound? Do the twin armatures in the nozzle have some kind of crossover or are they both doing the same job?


----------



## jant71

Skullophile said:


> So if there's no crossover in the ZS5 dividing frequencies does it make for a thick warm sound? Do the twin armatures in the nozzle have some kind of crossover or are they both doing the same job?



Twin armatures in the nozzle??


----------



## Slater (May 27, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> So if there's no crossover in the ZS5 dividing frequencies does it make for a thick warm sound? Do the twin armatures in the nozzle have some kind of crossover or are they both doing the same job?



There's only 1 BA in the nozzle. The other is buried down inside of the shell (at the back).

KZ states that 1 of the BA drivers handles high frequencies, while the other handles "ultra-high frequencies".

What is ultra-high frequencies? Well, KZ states that the ZS5 reliably reproduces frequencies up to 45,000Hz (which is only audible to dogs and other animals).

With that reality, I personally view the ZS5 as a triple driver. Yes, the 4th driver (ultra-high frequency BA driver) is connected, but it's not contributing anything that a human can hear.

I mean, I can attach ultraviolet or infrared lights to the front of my car, but since humans can't see in either spectrum, it would not have any functional purpose. From a marketing standpoint though, it would set my car apart from all the other cars on the road. I have a suspicion that's what might be going on with the ZS5.


----------



## Skullophile

So the ZS5 is dual dynamic bass and mids with BA highs and ultra highs for headroom?


----------



## Slater

Skullophile said:


> So the ZS5 is dual dynamic bass and mids with BA highs and ultra highs for headroom?



Yes.


----------



## ostewart

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yes.



Well this is speculation, it is most likely producing frequencies well within the human hearing range. Unless you have measured what the BA driver is doing.


----------



## groucho69

RIP


----------



## trollin863

Any good soft silicone tips for the zs3?

Seems the consensus is to use foams and while I will buy some foam tips would just like to know for future reference.

At this time the only foam tips I have are 1 pair of Comply T400 Platinums. Right now I have them installed onto the kz ed4s and they are making them sound more neutral reducing the highs. Not sure I like the foam any better than the sony hybrid on the ed4s. The bass is boomier with the hybrids. 

Overall my experience with comply t400s is slightly above average just in general with other iems too but I was expecting to like these foams a bit more. Will have to try other brands of foams but I really like sony hybrid type of tip if I could find something similar to use with the zs3. Much more practical the soft silicone and lasts longer imo.


----------



## SpiderNhan

trollin863 said:


> Any good soft silicone tips for the zs3?
> 
> Seems the consensus is to use foams and while I will buy some foam tips would just like to know for future reference.
> 
> ...


I use these on my ZS3. Love em.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/SYMBIO-Silico...niversal-Ear-Tip-Eartip-Eartips-/122455642972

There's also a wide bore version, but I don't know how they'll affect the sound.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/SYMBIO-W-Wide...ecial-Hybrid-Universal-Ear-Tips-/122463282100


----------



## Slater (May 28, 2017)

ostewart said:


> Well this is speculation, it is most likely producing frequencies well within the human hearing range. Unless you have measured what the BA driver is doing.



Yes, it is speculation and I have not measured the frequencies from the BA drivers myself.

But as far as the purpose of each driver, and the maximum frequency, I'm going by what KZ stated themselves. Of the 2 BA drivers, 1 is dedicated for HF and the other for UHF. They also proudly state that the ZS5 can reproduce frequencies up to 45KHz. Since humans can't even hear that high, I see using that as a selling point is nothing more than creative marketing. I understand why they did this though (& I don't knock them for doing it) - anything a company can do to set themselves apart from the competition is generally a smart marketing move.

Hopefully someone will tear one down and measure each BA driver so we know what frequency ranges are handled by each of the respective drivers. It will be very interesting to see the lowest frequency of the UHF driver (xxKHz - 45KHz). The drivers were supposedly custom-made for KZ, so it's unknown if a datasheet will be available - but that would be another option for technical data.


----------



## nocchi

ZS5 is basically a ZST with additional sub bass DD and a tweeter BA


----------



## ostewart

Without info it's silly to think UHF is going to be 20kHz and over.

I think it's more likely that it kicks in around 6-10kHz.

Also a balanced armature going up to 45kHz is marketing, I don't personally believe those specs.

But I look forward to receiving mine, they have finally shipped


----------



## hanamichi

Can someone compare havi b3 vs zst or zs5


----------



## 1clearhead

hanamichi said:


> Can someone compare havi b3 vs zst or zs5


+1 YES, I am definitely looking forward to a comparison between the HAVi B3 VS KZ ZS5.

Bring it on!


----------



## benandfaith (May 28, 2017)

Waiting on my ZS5.

Back into earphones again after a few years break.

Started a few years back with these:
KZ edse
KZ es 'the acme'
Havi b3 pro1
Huawei Honor AM12

Then moved on to headphones
Takstar Pro 80
Superlux HD668B
Superlux HD661
Audio technica ATH-AD900X

(Various bookshelf speakers)

Now back to earphones again!
Just bought:
KZ ATR
KZ ZS3
Awaiting KZ ZS5

Has been a couple of years since I used my earphones! Totally can't remember how they sound. Looking forward to comparing them all again.

I've actually got one more earphone that I can't remember what model it is! Pretty sure it is a KZ one. Anyone here have any idea?






Edit: all good now! Found out they are penon iem


----------



## Slater (May 28, 2017)

nocchi said:


> No crossover, here's ZS5 guts



The no crossover part is interesting, because KZ clearly shows a crossover in their cutaway image:


This wouldn't be the 1st ChiFi to do this. I have bought other ChiFis which did the same thing (showed crossovers in stock photos but actual product has none whatsoever). And that sucks because crossovers make all the difference in the world in multi-driver IEMs, in addition to making it possible to change out resistors yourself if you feel so inclined.

I'd rather pay another $5usd for a proper crossover network than just relying on the drivers to produce whatever frequencies they do naturally and praying that it all works in unison. As more drivers are crammed into the same shell this becomes even more important.

*Update: Can anyone identify what this item is (mounted vertically on the edge of the shell)? Is it simply a connection board (serving as an attachment point for driver wires), or is it indeed a crossover? The photo is too grainy to tell, and it also looks too small to be a crossover.  

 *


----------



## acia

trollin863 said:


> Any good soft silicone tips for the zs3?
> 
> Seems the consensus is to use foams and while I will buy some foam tips would just like to know for future reference.
> 
> ...



jvc spiral dots.


----------



## Johnny_Joestar

I hold a special place in my audiophile heart for KZ. Their ZS3 IEMs were the thing that brought me into the audiophile world. It let me learn about microphonics, how to properly wear IEMs, and other fun things. Sadly, because the ZS3s are deatchable, I lost one of them. Even if I go to higher priced territory, I'll never forget these guys for bringing me on this wuld audiophile ride.


----------



## Slater (Sep 4, 2019)

Johnny_Joestar said:


> I hold a special place in my audiophile heart for KZ. Their ZS3 IEMs were the thing that brought me into the audiophile world. It let me learn about microphonics, how to properly wear IEMs, and other fun things. Sadly, because the ZS3s are deatchable, I lost one of them. Even if I go to higher priced territory, I'll never forget these guys for bringing me on this wuld audiophile ride.



This is an all too common issue with the KZ 2-pin models, and is usually caused by accidentally plugging in the cable backwards.

The stock KZ plug will technically "fit" when plugged in backwards, but the only thing holding it in is the friction of the pins (allowing it to separate & fall apart at any time). Plugging one side in backwards will also cause that side to be out of phase.

When both plugs are oriented properly and seated fully, there’s a tight mechanical fitment due to the plug's shape - curved on one end and flat on the other. It’s designed to fit like a key in a lock.

_*Update: This guide only refers to KZ Paragraph A and Paragraph B. The new Paragraph C is not keyed with a flat end. It's symmetrically rounded on both ends. Although be aware that Paragraph C can still be plugged in backwards!!*_

Anyways, I've included the below photo so people can double check their Paragraph A and B connections to make sure they're correctly oriented:






_Note that only the stock KZ cables have the rounded/flat keyed plug. Non-KZ 2-pin 0.75mm cables will fit KZ models (TRN, BQEYZ, CCA, Kinboofi, NiceHCK, HiFiHear, etc). However, the plugs on those cables are flat on both sides so it’s wont be obvious. You’ll need to verify the proper orientation using a multimeter to identify which pin is ground, so you know which way to plug them into a KZ IEM. On KZ IEMs, the FLAT side is ground, and the rounded side is +. Some aftermarket cables do have a red dot on the 2-pin plug, which indicates that pin is +. If you have a non-KZ cable and are confused or unsure of the proper orientation, ask 1st before plugging it in to prevent possible damage to the IEM._


----------



## peskypesky

benandfaith said:


> Then moved on to headphones
> Takstar Pro 80
> Superlux HD668B
> Superlux HD661
> Audio technica ATH-AD900X



Did you like the Superlux HD661's? I'm thinking of ordering them.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> Did you like the Superlux HD661's? I'm thinking of ordering them.



A friend of mine at work has been considering them. I have read that they are treble-cannons, and can have pretty significant sibilance (unbearable to some). That sound signature it way too bright/sharp for me, but he says he likes lots of treble. I stumbled across this recent mod (by member @joshuadapitan) that is supposed to provide some improvements: https://www.head-fi.org/f/articles/superlux-hd661-anti-sibilance-and-comfort-mod.19634/


----------



## trollin863

SpiderNhan said:


> I use these on my ZS3. Love em.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/SYMBIO-Silico...niversal-Ear-Tip-Eartip-Eartips-/122455642972
> 
> ...



Spider, Yeah I was likely going to be buying the Mandarins like we were discussing.

I forgot to ask is about insertion. With the Mandarins, do you have to roll the foam in your fingers to compress the foam(like you have to with other foam tips)

Or can you just place the nozzles in your ears like you would any other plastic tip?

Was thinking 2 pairs medium, 1 pair large of the Mandarins. Or all 3 pairs medium. Can't decide. Is medium the only size you use with other iems as well. (I know you said you use mediums with the zs3)

I've never worn anything but a medium.


----------



## SpiderNhan

trollin863 said:


> Spider, Yeah I was likely going to be buying the Mandarins like we were discussing.
> 
> I forgot to ask is about insertion. With the Mandarins, do you have to roll the foam in your fingers to compress the foam(like you have to with other foam tips)
> 
> ...


There is no need to squeeze them as they behave like normal silicon tips. I bought 2 M and 1 S actually wonder if I should've gotten a large to test. The small is too small and the mediums work, but not with all IEMs. They work best on the ZS3 out everything I have. I couldn't get them to seal on the ZST and on other IEMs the fit was awkward in my left ear. However, none of my other tips worked on the ZS3 at all


----------



## benandfaith (May 28, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> Did you like the Superlux HD661's?





slaterlovesspam said:


> I have read that they are treble-cannons, and can have pretty significant sibilance (unbearable to some).



I don't like them. For the reason slaterlovesspam has said. Too much treble of the sibilant nature.

Clamping force is a bit tight also.

Going to save them up for my kids when they are a bit older.


----------



## jaydm99

Anyone know what KZ model is this?

http://imgur.com/SMJ3AJn


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I think someone bought a KZ headphone and gave them a scathing review.  Bad build and sound.  Stick with IEMs lol.


----------



## Slater (May 28, 2017)

Jay Magaling said:


> Anyone know what KZ model is this?
> 
> http://imgur.com/SMJ3AJn



That is the KZ LP5 (bluetooth).

I own the KZ LP3 (the predecessor to the LP5). And I can tell you that the LP3 is the biggest hunk of junk in my headphone stable by a long shot. It has horrible build quality and even worse sound. KZ makes awesome IEMs - I love them as a company and own dozens of their IEMs. But IMO they make full size headphones equal to something you'd find on the clearance rack at a dollar store.

Until they can prove that they're able to build a full-size headphone with the same level of sound and quality as their IEMs, I would run, not walk, from any full-size KZ offering.

There are WAY better choices in full-size bluetooth headphones out there, because it's such a crowded market. Sooo many good choices, even as cheap as $20-$40.


----------



## nocchi

slaterlovesspam said:


> *Update: Can anyone identify what this item is (mounted vertically on the edge of the shell)? Is it simply a connection board (serving as an attachment point for driver wires), or is it indeed a crossover? The photo is too grainy to tell, and it also looks too small to be a crossover.
> 
> *



Those are the solder pads of the DD.

I'm thinking of harvesting the ZS5 drivers and retune them with crossover and reshell them.


----------



## Slater (May 28, 2017)

nocchi said:


> Those are the solder pads of the DD.



That's what I was thinking. Looked way too small to be a crossover, and there would be more wires running to it.



nocchi said:


> I'm thinking of harvesting the ZS5 drivers and retune them with crossover and reshell them.



That would be awesome. If you do so, please detail the process. Not sure how you'd safely extract all of the drivers though, since they glopped everything in with the 2lbs worth of glue!


----------



## TheWongWrong

slaterlovesspam said:


> That is the KZ LP5 (bluetooth).
> 
> I own the KZ LP3 (the predecessor to the LP5). And I can tell you that the LP3 is the biggest hunk of junk in my headphone stable by a long shot. It has horrible build quality and even worse sound. KZ makes awesome IEMs - I love them as a company and own dozens of their IEMs. But IMO they make full size headphones equal to something you'd find on the clearance rack at a dollar store.
> 
> ...


Do you mind kindly listing down a few of those good choices you mentioned?


----------



## Slater (May 29, 2017)

TheWongWrong said:


> Do you mind kindly listing down a few of those good choices you mentioned?



In no particular order: Bluedio T2/T2+, Bluedio T3/T3+, Bluedio Vinyl, Bluedio T4, Ausdom M06, Ausdom H8, Avantree Audition

The prices of all those I listed are under $100, and offer good quality, good sound, and bang for the buck. Some have NFC and aptX, and some are just bluetooth. The Bluedio + models have a built-in microSD card that can play music right from the card. The Bluedio T3/T3+, T4, and Vinyl are metal construction. Best battery life is Bluedio T2/T2+, T3/T3+, & T4. Most can be used in wireless or hard wired mode.

Obviously there are many other choices, but the ones in the list are ones I've either currently or previously owned, listened to, or know someone who does and they've reported being very happy with them. The only exceptions are the T2 and T3, as my experience is with the + version. But the + versions are literally identical with the only exception being the addition of the microSD function.


----------



## TheWongWrong

slaterlovesspam said:


> In no particular order: Bluedio T2/T2+, Bluedio T3/T3+, Bluedio Vinyl, Bluedio T4, Ausdom M06, Ausdom H8, Avantree Audition
> 
> The prices of all those I listed are under $100, and offer good quality, good sound, and bang for the buck. Some have NFC and aptX, and some are just bluetooth. The Bluedio + models have a built-in microSD card that can play music right from the card. The Bluedio T3/T3+, T4, and Vinyl are metal construction. Best battery life is Bluedio T2/T2+, T3/T3+, & T4. Most can be used in wireless or hard wired mode.
> 
> Obviously there are many other choices, but the ones in the list are ones I've either currently or previously owned, listened to, or know someone who does and they've reported being very happy with them. The only exceptions are the T2 and T3, as my experience is with the + version. But the + versions are literally identical with the only exception being the addition of the microSD function.


Have you tried the Superlux HD681EVOs? Looking to get one but will have to look at some of your suggestions now


----------



## crabdog

TheWongWrong said:


> Have you tried the Superlux HD681EVOs? Looking to get one but will have to look at some of your suggestions now


I'd also suggest the Archeer AH07 as long as you don't mind some extra bass but the build and battery life a great.


----------



## ricemanhk

Replying some earlier posts on the Chinese vs Foreigner boxes and cables.

I suspect all boxes coming out from KZ is the nicer box.  For the global resellers they might repackage it into the smaller/lighter boxes for lower shipping costs (both weight and volume savings), as that metal plate holding the eartips is already fairly substantial, and the cardboard box is quite thick and heavy.  But if you buy from the more reputable sellers, I wouldn't be too concerned about fakes or other issues.

Stock cable for ZST and ZS3/ZS5 are rubbery and a little sticky.  Not great to tie up and put away (I use the figure 8 method to avoid kinks), and even worse to untangle if you do get them tangled.  But durability wise I've been using my ZST daily for about 6 months now, still going strong. Silver/gold cable feels nicer and is less sticky so will be easier to wrap or untangle.  But I use the mic and volume controls all the time, so the silver/gold cables only act as my backup when the stock cable breaks eventually.


----------



## TheWongWrong

crabdog said:


> I'd also suggest the Archeer AH07 as long as you don't mind some extra bass but the build and battery life a great.


Wow thanks for the suggestion man, they look real solidly built. Goes for a pretty good price too. How's it been holding up for you?


----------



## toddy0191

TheWongWrong said:


> Have you tried the Superlux HD681EVOs? Looking to get one but will have to look at some of your suggestions now


 

+1 for the Bluedio T4s. Lovely balanced sounding headphones with excellent  separation and detail.  Just don't but then for watching videos as there is audible lag, all though they can be used wired we this isn't an issue.

On a KZ note though my ZS5s have just been shipped by NiceHCK after a long wait.  Can't wait to get them!


----------



## themindfreak

Same as above. NiceHCK just shipped my KZ ZS5 too. Its taking toooo long


----------



## zozito

Mine too.


----------



## Slater

TheWongWrong said:


> Have you tried the Superlux HD681EVOs? Looking to get one but will have to look at some of your suggestions now



681 EVOs aren't bluetooth. You were looking for full-size bluetooth headphone recommendations, correct?


----------



## crabdog

TheWongWrong said:


> Wow thanks for the suggestion man, they look real solidly built. Goes for a pretty good price too. How's it been holding up for you?


I haven't had as much time with them as I would like but so far they're great. There are a few reviews on Head-Fi if you want some more information: https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/...-over-ear-headphones-headsets-with-mic.21661/


----------



## acia

Any comment on kz-ie80??


----------



## TheWongWrong (May 29, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> 681 EVOs aren't bluetooth. You were looking for full-size bluetooth headphone recommendations, correct?


Erm actually no? Yeah as I looked back at my initial reply I can we definitely see why one would make that assumption haha, should've specified I guess. No wonder I was only getting recommendations for bluetooth headphones lol. If you feel like it, you can shoot me with some options for wired ones or a link to a budget full sized forum maybe? I listen to mainly vocal oriented stuff and occasionally classical. Something with good imaging and soundstage, vocal clarity and decent details is what I'm eyeing up. Would love it if you could provide me with some more options especially if they are better than the ones you mentioned before. Don't really mind if they are wireless or not lol. Although I hope I'm not bothering anyone with the off topic discussion though


----------



## TheWongWrong (May 29, 2017)

crabdog said:


> I haven't had as much time with them as I would like but so far they're great. There are a few reviews on Head-Fi if you want some more information: https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/...-over-ear-headphones-headsets-with-mic.21661/


Thanks man, really appreciate the help
Edit: well I looked at the reviews and it sounds to me that the bass might be too much for my taste. May I know what genres of music do you listen to?


----------



## VinceHill24

Well i got my ZS5 few days ago and firstly i have to agree with @ricemanhk about needing to mod out the memory cable part in order to get the best fitment. There is a day and night difference for me seriously in terms of fit without the memory cable and it appears that i can wear them longer much more comfortably.

Sound wise i wasn't quite fit to do some critical listening as i was suffering from migraine past few days but i can say it's pretty positive. Migraine could've triggered my sensitivity towards the higher frequencies so it came off a bit too bright and fatiguing to me with a very slight hint of sibilant to those very sibilant proned tracks and this may be due to partly that i wasn't getting a good fit too before i mod out the memory wire. Not sure if this is gonna be relevant but anyway treble sensitives' do take note.

Now that I'm recovering to my usual state for listening, after just a brief session it's actually quite a pleasant sound overall ,pretty balance with just a slight recess in the midrange, more of an U rather than v shape signature. Bass is quite prominent as well as treble and the overall clarity is good with a bit of warmth in overall tonality.

The bass is pretty tight and well textured. Bass notes are well defined out of all the KZ, it's more rumbly than punchy probably something between  ZST & ZS3 level of bass but takes out the unwanted boominess of ZS3 and there you go, sounds just right in between. 

Fitment plays a big role in bass so i'm gonna talk more about it, if you notice there's a vent hole in front at side facing our ear. If you cover the vent fully you'll find the bass being enhanced by a lot (it's a good modding point for basshead) If you don't get a good fit, the vent hole may not be covered enough to bring enough body to the bass in order to make it enjoyable therefore it explains pretty much why some Taobao reviews talked about it as bass light / shallow bass. Getting a good fit pretty much solves this or if you don't kind it at basshead level just do the tape mod.

The midrange is clear and full of details. Male vocals sounded fuller than female vocals; the upper midrange part could come off as a little bit thin for me but it's likely just a matter of preference. I've re-listened with proper fit (after modded out the memory wire) a few of those sibilant proned track i used to test and it tends to be slightly sibilant, not to the point that it will be noticeably annoying but its there.

Treble is very prominent on the ZS5 imo, forward and sufficiently bright with lots of details. Percussive instrument sounded crisp and clear. Not a hint of harshness as far as i'm listening to, pretty smooth & linear without noticeable peak. However it can be slightly fatiguing for long listening session due to too much of the treble details it's reproducing. 

Soundstage is pretty decent, it's much wider rather than deeper. Good instrument separation without blur between instruments even during phase where lots of instruments coming into the mix it still handles them well.

It's actually pretty hard to imagine this ZS5 housed 2 dynamic driver as it doesn't feels so, i really thought i would get something bassier with thicker sound so what i've heard is pretty much a surprise. Would've loved it more if KZ would make a metal version for it because it feels like cheap plastic toy in my hand coz it's very light and doesn't give a solid feel, i actually don't mind paying more for a more rock solid metallic version if there is.

As usual jmho and ymmv. I believe others can definitely tell a better story about the ZS5.


----------



## CoiL

TheWongWrong said:


> Erm actually no? Yeah as I looked back at my initial reply I can we definitely see why one would make that assumption haha, should've specified I guess. No wonder I was only getting recommendations for bluetooth headphones lol. If you feel like it, you can shoot me with some options for wired ones or a link to a budget full sized forum maybe? I listen to mainly vocal oriented stuff and occasionally classical. Something with good imaging and soundstage, vocal clarity and decent details is what I'm eyeing up. Would love it if you could provide me with some more options especially if they are better than the ones you mentioned before. Don't really mind if they are wireless or not lol. Although I hope I'm not bothering anyone with the off topic discussion though



Not wanting to be rude but... this is KZ thread.


----------



## CoiL

VinceHill24 said:


> ...pretty balance with* just a slight recess in the midrange*...
> 
> Soundstage is pretty decent, *it's much wider rather than deeper*...



Didn`t want to read this... well... hope it`s not so big deal and noticeable.


----------



## robervaul

Has anyone received it in this package?


----------



## TheWongWrong

CoiL said:


> Not wanting to be rude but... this is KZ thread.


Yeah sorry bout that, kinda got outta hand "°~°


----------



## B9Scrambler

robervaul said:


> Has anyone received it in this package?



That's the package for foreigners. Only those in the local Chinese market get the good stuff.


----------



## Sylmar

VinceHill24 said:


> Well i got my ZS5 few days ago and firstly i have to agree with @ricemanhk about needing to mod out the memory cable part in order to get the best fitment. There is a day and night difference for me seriously in terms of fit without the memory cable and it appears that i can wear them longer much more comfortably.
> 
> Sound wise i wasn't quite fit to do some critical listening as i was suffering from migraine past few days but i can say it's pretty positive. Migraine could've triggered my sensitivity towards the higher frequencies so it came off a bit too bright and fatiguing to me with a very slight hint of sibilant to those very sibilant proned tracks and this may be due to partly that i wasn't getting a good fit too before i mod out the memory wire. Not sure if this is gonna be relevant but anyway treble sensitives' do take note.
> 
> ...



That is an interesting read thanks! Looking forward to my pair. Quick question, is it easy to remove memory wire? I'm not the most technical of persons. I will try with and without taping the vent hole as well should I not get a good fit.


----------



## blazinblazin (May 29, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Didn`t want to read this... well... hope it`s not so big deal and noticeable.



It's a bit recessed mid due to the larger soundstage but the clarity is there so the other freq is not overpowering the mids.


----------



## Shinry

TheWongWrong said:


> Yeah sorry bout that, kinda got outta hand "°~°


You might want to take a look at the chinese headphones thread https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-on-or-over-ear-headphones.822184/
Short list of the last recommendations: (might miss a few)
Takstar Pro82
ISK HF2011/HP2010
CB1
Yenona, LyxPro and other clones 
ISK HD9999


----------



## khighly

CoiL said:


> Didn`t want to read this... well... hope it`s not so big deal and noticeable.



They admitted Migrane/Illness. I would take it with a grain of salt until they come back with a non-sick review.


----------



## Slater

TheWongWrong said:


> Erm actually no? Yeah as I looked back at my initial reply I can we definitely see why one would make that assumption haha, should've specified I guess. No wonder I was only getting recommendations for bluetooth headphones lol. If you feel like it, you can shoot me with some options for wired ones or a link to a budget full sized forum maybe? I listen to mainly vocal oriented stuff and occasionally classical. Something with good imaging and soundstage, vocal clarity and decent details is what I'm eyeing up. Would love it if you could provide me with some more options especially if they are better than the ones you mentioned before. Don't really mind if they are wireless or not lol. Although I hope I'm not bothering anyone with the off topic discussion though



OK, my bad. Yeah, if you don't specifically need bluetooth I would definitely get wired. Most bluetooth are tuned with a heavy v-shaped generic Beats consumer-style sound signature, in addition to the quality reduction caused by streaming bluetooth itself.

With that said, given your preferred genres, the only other piece of information that would be helpful is your budget so we can get you some good recommendations.


----------



## Slater

VinceHill24 said:


> Well i got my ZS5 few days ago and firstly i have to agree with @ricemanhk about needing to mod out the memory cable part in order to get the best fitment. There is a day and night difference for me seriously in terms of fit without the memory cable and it appears that i can wear them longer much more comfortably.
> 
> Sound wise i wasn't quite fit to do some critical listening as i was suffering from migraine past few days but i can say it's pretty positive. Migraine could've triggered my sensitivity towards the higher frequencies so it came off a bit too bright and fatiguing to me with a very slight hint of sibilant to those very sibilant proned tracks and this may be due to partly that i wasn't getting a good fit too before i mod out the memory wire. Not sure if this is gonna be relevant but anyway treble sensitives' do take note.
> 
> ...



Your description of the sound reminds me an awful lot like the Xiaomi In-Ear Pro HD..


----------



## Slater

Shinry said:


> You might want to take a look at the chinese headphones thread https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-on-or-over-ear-headphones.822184/
> Short list of the last recommendations: (might miss a few)
> Takstar Pro82
> ISK HF2011/HP2010
> ...



+1 to the both the list and the link recommendation!


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> They admitted Migrane/Illness. I would take it with a grain of salt until they come back with a non-sick review.



Yeah, but then he got over the migraine and did the review after "_recovering to my usual state for listening_".


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Didn`t want to read this... well... hope it`s not so big deal and noticeable.



Especially with a dedicated midrange driver!

And with the sound reported as being right between the ZST and ZS3, I'm asking myself if I should really even bother getting the ZS5 (other than to simply own a quad driver). I may just wait & see how the ZSR Pro pans out, unless I'm missing something?


----------



## acia

Any comment on kz-ie80??


----------



## SomeTechNoob

acia said:


> Any comment on kz-ie80??



If it's not talked about, it's not worth it.  My two cents.  They have been out for awhile and the general consensus is that there are better options from KZ out there anyways.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Sylmar said:


> That is an interesting read thanks! Looking forward to my pair. Quick question, is it easy to remove memory wire? I'm not the most technical of persons. I will try with and without taping the vent hole as well should I not get a good fit.


Very easy indeed, you can basically just rip it out with your fingers if you want. Just trim off the rubber that was over the little strip of bendy metal(which is what was giving the wire memory) nice and carefully so as to not cut up your wire or fingers.


----------



## TheWongWrong

slaterlovesspam said:


> OK, my bad. Yeah, if you don't specifically need bluetooth I would definitely get wired. Most bluetooth are tuned with a heavy v-shaped generic Beats consumer-style sound signature, in addition to the quality reduction caused by streaming bluetooth itself.
> 
> With that said, given your preferred genres, the only other piece of information that would be helpful is your budget so we can get you some good recommendations.


Thanks again for the help. Never knew that bit of information about how Bluetooth headphones are usually tuned. My budget would be nowhere over 50$.


----------



## Cya|\|

Btw, when are the zst pro coming out?


----------



## Sylmar

TheWongWrong said:


> Very easy indeed, you can basically just rip it out with your fingers if you want. Just trim off the rubber that was over the little strip of bendy metal(which is what was giving the wire memory) nice and carefully so as to not cut up your wire or fingers.



Good to know. At least that should give me some options. Hopefully they'll arrive soon.


----------



## acia

I got two pairs of zs5. One China version. One intl version. 

Both cracked ifmi max my phone volume. 215 and 315 won't crack under same level of sound.


----------



## acia

Zst won't crack.


----------



## CoiL

Crack - what do You mean about it? Distorting sound at higher vol levels?


----------



## peskypesky (May 30, 2017)

I like strong bass and am sensitive to treble, so I'm thinking that of all the KZ earphones, the ZS3 are the ones for me. Is that correct?

I'm trying to decide what to order next. ZS3, ZS5, UrbanFuns, Memt X5 and **** 4in1 are the current contenders...


[Edit] Just saw that ZS3 is on sale for $7.99 at GearBest, so I ordered them. At that price, why not?


----------



## acia

CoiL said:


> Crack - what do You mean about it? Distorting sound at higher vol levels?


Yes. Doesn't happen for 3125 or zst


----------



## Slater (May 30, 2017)

Cya|\| said:


> Btw, when are the zst pro coming out?



ZS*R* Pro, & it is unknown at this time. The ZS5 was reported to be an interim release before the ZSR Pro. So now that the ZS5 is out, the ZSR Pro should be next.

My prediction is late fall - in time to display them at the big fall electronics trade shows, in time to hit the big Aliexpress 11.11 sale (or at least pre-orders at that time), Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and the general XMas season madness.

If I was running the show at KZ, that time frame is sure when I would be shooting for.


----------



## Podster

Well until my ZS5 arrives these are still top dog in the KZ stable (sans ZSR if that thing ever releases)!




 

Benjie T6 is no slouch either, pretty sweet little rig for $55


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Well until my ZS5 arrives these are still top dog in the KZ stable (sans ZSR if that thing ever releases)!
> 
> 
> 
> Benjie T6 is no slouch either, pretty sweet little rig for $55



Waiting on the T8


----------



## Podster

Yeah, I've been searching for the release party but alas I'm like you and waiting. Heard anything on price yet. If memory serves me right the T6 set me back $40 and to be honest the way it sounds with the ZST's it was worth it


----------



## wastan

peskypesky said:


> I like strong bass and am sensitive to treble, so I'm thinking that of all the KZ earphones, the ZS3 are the ones for me. Is that correct?
> 
> I'm trying to decide what to order next. ZS3, ZS5, UrbanFuns, Memt X5 and **** 4in1 are the current contenders...
> 
> ...



If you're treble sensitive, I'd put the 4 in 1 on the bottom of your list. I've got the urbanfuns and the zs3. Technically, the urbanfun is a better listen than the zs3 but there's no denying that the zs3 is downright fun.


----------



## rendyG (May 30, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> I like strong bass and am sensitive to treble, so I'm thinking that of all the KZ earphones, the ZS3 are the ones for me. Is that correct?
> 
> I'm trying to decide what to order next. ZS3, ZS5, UrbanFuns, Memt X5 and **** 4in1 are the current contenders...



As a treble sensitive person I can tell you that Urbafuns should be ok, they have nice treble which peaks above 15k which doesn't bother me. I'm sensitive for around 9k peaks, but I had problems only with full-sized headphones such as hd668b, which may be just due to shape of my ears...
Only things that I miss when I switch from my RE400 is that flat bass and comfort (urbafuns have mid bass hump and are maybe are on the bigger side of iems).
Anyways, haven't listened to them a lot yet, you can pm me if you want some info.


----------



## peskypesky

wastan said:


> If you're treble sensitive, I'd put the 4 in 1 on the bottom of your list. I've got the urbanfuns and the zs3. Technically, the urbanfun is a better listen than the zs3 but there's no denying that the zs3 is downright fun.


Well, I'll be getting my ZS3s within 15 days, and am looking forward to some bassy fun.


----------



## trollin863

Are any of you using SpinFit tips on the kz zs3 or atr?

Ive always wanted to try SpinFits and just curious.


----------



## chinmie

How is the sub bass and soundstage compared between ZS3, Urbanfun Hifi, Einsear T2, and the ZST?


----------



## DarkReaper

Will be ordering the KZ ZS5. Seller's coupon would knock off $2 off the price.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Org...Earphones-FOUR-Dynamic-Noise/32813807055.html

Currently have the Xiaomi Hybrid, will compare afterwards.


----------



## kokakolia (May 30, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> I like strong bass and am sensitive to treble, so I'm thinking that of all the KZ earphones, the ZS3 are the ones for me. Is that correct?
> 
> I'm trying to decide what to order next. ZS3, ZS5, UrbanFuns, Memt X5 and **** 4in1 are the current contenders...
> 
> ...



I am really sensitive to treble too. I bought the KZ ED7 and ED9. I found the highs on the ED9 unbearable (although they get so much praise on this forum). The ED7 just sounded perfect to me, but they lack punch in the bass. I am sure you'll be happy with the ZS3. $7.99 is so cheap considering the performance.

BUT, I am 100% confident that I found the perfect earphone: *Marshall Mode*. They're $40 on amazon.com right now. They have strong bass, forward vocals and smooth treble (noticeably better than the ED7s which sounded perfect to me). They have an ergonomic shape that just fits. You don't have to worry about falling earbuds. The sound-stage is surprisingly wide too. $40 is a huge jump compared to $8, but it's still in the realm of affordable. And it's cheaper in the long run because you'll probably buy several different earbuds from KZ (and wires too) because they're so cheap. Also, the Marshall Mode comes with an integrated clip, a nicer mic and a much better wire that doesn't tangle as much. The build quality is night and day too. Compared to the KZ ED7, the Marshall Mode has much less wire noise when walking. It's kinda unbearable with the ED7.


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> I am really sensitive to treble too. I bought the KZ ED7 and ED9. I found the highs on the ED9 unbearable (although they get so much praise on this forum).



You used the shiny gold filter on the ED9, right? Because the dull brass tip is unbearable as far as treble.

Also, I modded my ED9 and cleaned up the sound. Smoother treble, no sharpness at all, and much improved bass.


----------



## ricemanhk

slaterlovesspam said:


> Your description of the sound reminds me an awful lot like the Xiaomi In-Ear Pro HD..



From a sound signature POV, I think that's actually somewhat true.  But ZS5 just does everything better than the xiaomi gen 5.  More bass, clearer and less sibilant treble, better resolution and separation.  That might also be related to the ease of getting a better seal with the ZS5, as the xiaomi gen 5 nozzle is quite short and easy to break the seal even with starline or foam tips.


----------



## trollin863

slaterlovesspam said:


> You used the shiny gold filter on the ED9, right? Because the dull brass tip is unbearable as far as treble.
> 
> Also, I modded my ED9 and cleaned up the sound. Smoother treble, no sharpness at all, and much improved bass.



If I like the ED4 (which most folks don't) you think I would also enjoy the ED9s?

Thanks


----------



## Slater (May 31, 2017)

trollin863 said:


> If I like the ED4 (which most folks don't) you think I would also enjoy the ED9s?
> 
> Thanks



There's really quite nothing like the ED4 (and I don't mean that in a good way). They're tuned very unique, with a sound signature that's way out in left field compared to most everything else KZ has.

In my opinion, the ED4 is one of the worst if not THE worst IEM KZ makes. So if you like the ED4, plan on your jaw dropping to the floor with 90% of other KZs compared to the ED4.

Let me ask you this - what do you specifically like about the ED4? If it's simply the $4 price, that's OK too because they make other models almost as cheap that absolutely shame the ED4. But the answer to that question will help determine what other KZs you may like (possibly including the ED9 as well).


----------



## trollin863

I like the bass mainly. The highs arent great though and I noticed rock music really highlights the ed4s weaknesses. Particularly loud electric guitars sound really out of tune and distorted.

Thankfully I listen to mostly rap and techno trance, so bass and mids are more important. (at least imo for rap) I feel like the ed4s are quite efficient as well. They get quite loud even at low volume levels. Believe they have a high sensitivity db if I remember correctly from the specs.

Maybe Ill have a different opinion once I finally try out my atr and zs3s. I havent opened the boxes for those yet. Kind of waiting to get the perfect tips for the zs3 but the atr should be fine with the stock tips. (my friend spider tells me the stock atr tips sound good)


The zs5s will probably be my next kz iem that I buy but its fun learning and hearing everyones opinion on different models. Was wondering earlier tonight say in 6 months will they come down in price? I dont mind paying 35 bucks for them currently if the zs5 continues to review well from you guys. However, could we envision a day where gearbest carries the zs5 and has a flash sale on them like they are having for the zs3 right now. Guess a good indicator would be figuring out the zs3s original price compared to now. See how many % off that is, then apply that discount to the zs5. Maybe one day the zs5 will go down to 15-20 dollars.


----------



## Saoshyant

Oddly all this makes me want to try out an ED4 just to see what it's like


----------



## ricemanhk

trollin863 said:


> I like the bass mainly. The highs arent great though and I noticed rock music really highlights the ed4s weaknesses. Particularly loud electric guitars sound really out of tune and distorted.
> 
> Thankfully I listen to mostly rap and techno trance, so bass and mids are more important. (at least imo for rap) I feel like the ed4s are quite efficient as well. They get quite loud even at low volume levels. Believe they have a high sensitivity db if I remember correctly from the specs.
> 
> ...



Well, as with all electronics, prices tend to go down over time.  For sure the ZS5 will be on sale later, particularly around those key shopping days like 11/11 in China.  The flash sale for ZS3 might also be due to the ZS5 coming out.  So it's a trade off between the enjoyment you get now vs the discount later...some will buy it now and others will wait.  At this price point for me, I chose to get it now and enjoy it.


----------



## trollin863

Hey browsing aliexpress and I see a model called the ED7 made out bamboo?!

Are these the same as the ED4 but just bamboo housing? They seem like the same size and design as the ED4. Nozzles look identical to me etc.


----------



## 1clearhead

Finally received the blue edition of the KZ ZS5. Let's see if this one spares me the QC issues.


----------



## TheVortex

1clearhead said:


> Finally received the blue edition of the KZ ZS5. Let's see if this one spares me the QC issues.



Do you live in China to get the full retail box? Looks very professional.


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> Finally received the blue edition of the KZ ZS5. Let's see if this one spares me the QC issues.



Awesome!  Let us know


----------



## acia

1clearhead said:


> Finally received the blue edition of the KZ ZS5. Let's see if this one spares me the QC issues.


see if you got bursting sound if at uber high volume.  both of mine got vibration at uber high volume.  zst, 215, 315 no bursting at uber high volume


----------



## acia

1clearhead said:


> Finally received the blue edition of the KZ ZS5. Let's see if this one spares me the QC issues.




your china retail box looks different from others.


----------



## VinceHill24

I don't really understand how do you guys able to listen at super high volume. 50-60% of volume with my Note 3 is like super loud enough to not get uncomfortable, if i put it on any louder it's gonna be uncomfortable and painful to listen to and i'd probably get a tinnitus shortly after, not to mention some potentially permanent hearing damage. They're pretty sensitive at 106dB with a low 16Ohm impedance so i don't really find it necessary to crank up the volume high. jmho


----------



## B9Scrambler

VinceHill24 said:


> I don't really understand how do you guys able to listen at super high volume. 50-60% of volume with my Note 3 is like super loud enough to not get uncomfortable, if i put it on any louder it's gonna be uncomfortable and painful to listen to and i'd probably get a tinnitus shortly after, not to mention some potentially permanent hearing damage. They're pretty sensitive at 106dB with a low 16Ohm impedance so i don't really find it necessary to crank up the volume high. jmho



I'm in the same boat my friend. I listen at ~15-30% with most of my gear and that's plenty of volume. Some earphones paired with my HTC One M8 I'll listen at the lowest possible volume. Reading about people maxing the volume and it still not being enough makes me cringe, haha.


----------



## trumpethead

1clearhead said:


> Finally received the blue edition of the KZ ZS5. Let's see if this one spares me the QC issues.



How are you getting yours so fast. lm still waiting for mine to ship


----------



## VinceHill24

B9Scrambler said:


> I'm in the same boat my friend. I listen at ~15-30% with most of my gear and that's plenty of volume. Some earphones paired with my HTC One M8 I'll listen at the lowest possible volume. Reading about people maxing the volume and it still not being enough makes me cringe, haha.


Absolutely! My first reaction will be ouch! That hurts! And i'm surprised there are even people listening with volume maxed out. I do wonder if their ear have some sort of superpower or what.. Seriously people, gotta take care of your ears. 




 
KZ is kind enough to give us some reminder about this too LOL


----------



## Chifi

Hello,

i've just received my KZ ZST and the left earpiece cable wont fit in properly like the right one does. it looks like the pinholes are too tight or something is blocking the pins. how can i fix this?

thank you


----------



## Shinry

Gave in and ordered a pair of blue ZS5 with silver cable


----------



## Slater

Chifi said:


> Hello,
> 
> i've just received my KZ ZST and the left earpiece cable wont fit in properly like the right one does. it looks like the pinholes are too tight or something is blocking the pins. how can i fix this?
> 
> thank you



Here you go chief: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> I'm in the same boat my friend. I listen at ~15-30% with most of my gear and that's plenty of volume. Some earphones paired with my HTC One M8 I'll listen at the lowest possible volume. Reading about people maxing the volume and it still not being enough makes me cringe, haha.



Yeah, as someone with some hearing loss and tinnitus from being stupid when younger, I can say it is something you regret for the rest of your life.


----------



## Chifi (May 31, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Here you go chief: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067



i have paid attention to these details like i've read them in this thread before, so the cable was placed correctly. i can forcibly push them in a little more but they still dont lock into the earpiece. should i return the iem?

EDIT:


----------



## Drakis

Chifi said:


> i have paid attention to these details like i've read them in this thread before, so the cable was placed correctly. i can forcibly push them in a little more but they still dont lock into the earpiece. should i return the iem?
> 
> EDIT:



It happened the same with mine, and i forced it (slowly but strongly) and it pushed in. I don't think it will ever come out!


----------



## peskypesky

Drakis said:


> It happened the same with mine, and i forced it (slowly but strongly) and it pushed in. I don't think it will ever come out!



sounds like my wedding night


----------



## peskypesky

VinceHill24 said:


> I don't really understand how do you guys able to listen at super high volume. 50-60% of volume with my Note 3 is like super loud enough to not get uncomfortable, if i put it on any louder it's gonna be uncomfortable and painful to listen to and i'd probably get a tinnitus shortly after, not to mention some potentially permanent hearing damage. They're pretty sensitive at 106dB with a low 16Ohm impedance so i don't really find it necessary to crank up the volume high. jmho



What did you say? I couldn't hear you.


----------



## Chifi

Drakis said:


> It happened the same with mine, and i forced it (slowly but strongly) and it pushed in. I don't think it will ever come out!



i was afraid i might damage the pins. i pushed it inside really hard and it locked in. thanks


----------



## peskypesky

Shinry said:


> Gave in and ordered a pair of blue ZS5 with silver cable


----------



## Terran Earthson (May 31, 2017)

So after couple of weeks listening to ZS3 and ZST, found ZST to be a little bit dissapointing, ZS3 fits perfectly in my ear, bass is fascinating, overall sound quality way over the top of CX200-300, Sony XBA-1, 10C.
ZST is clearer and a little bit crispier on the high and mids, soundstage is narrower, it's ok, but they don't provide same sound isolation as ZS3, plus you have to drill the ear tips right into ear canal, to achieve better sound, it kinda sucks. But for me ZST is more preferable since mids are just better than in ZS3, i'm a big fan of clear woman vocals.

So i think i want the same clarity as in ZST but with ZS3 comfortability, is there any models under 30$, with those parameters?


----------



## SpiderNhan

Terran Earthson said:


> So after couple of weeks listening to ZS3 and ZST, found ZST to be a little bit dissapointing, ZS3 fits perfectly in my ear, bass is fascinating, overall sound quality way over the top of CX200-300, Sony XBA-1, 10C.
> ZST is clearer and a little bit crispier on the high and mids, soundstage is narrower, it's ok, but they don't provide same sound isolation as ZS3, plus you have to drill the ear tips right into ear canal, to achieve better sound, it kinda sucks. But for me ZST is more preferable since mids are just better than in ZS3, i'm a big fan of clear woman vocals.
> 
> So i think i want the same clarity as in ZST but with ZS3 comfortability, is there any models under 30$, with those parameters?


Have you tried using different tips? I don't use the stock tips on either of them.


----------



## groucho69

Terran Earthson said:


> So after couple of weeks listening to ZS3 and ZST, found ZST to be a little bit dissapointing, ZS3 fits perfectly in my ear, bass is fascinating, overall sound quality way over the top of CX200-300, Sony XBA-1, 10C.
> ZST is clearer and a little bit crispier on the high and mids, soundstage is narrower, it's ok, but they don't provide same sound isolation as ZS3, plus you have to drill the ear tips right into ear canal, to achieve better sound, it kinda sucks. But for me ZST is more preferable since mids are just better than in ZS3, i'm a big fan of clear woman vocals.
> 
> So i think i want the same clarity as in ZST but with ZS3 comfortability, is there any models under 30$, with those parameters?



Just me but I find the ZST comfortable...but I am far from usual...some say as far as you can get...


----------



## ricemanhk

In quiet environments I'm at 40-50% volume on my xiaomi mi 5 phone with my podcasts which tends to be mixed at lower volumes.  With music i'm at 30-40% volume.  Don't know why anyone would ever max out the volume for IEMs...


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> +1 YES, I am definitely looking forward to a comparison between the HAVi B3 VS KZ ZS5.
> 
> Bring it on!



1clearhead bro,

Can you pls help to compare between MEMT X5 and ZS5? Thanks


----------



## 1clearhead

TheVortex said:


> Do you live in China to get the full retail box? Looks very professional.


Yes, I'm American, but I live in China....


----------



## 1clearhead

snip3r77 said:


> 1clearhead bro,
> 
> Can you pls help to compare between MEMT X5 and ZS5? Thanks


....Using aftermarket "double-flange" tips, which I separately bought for my MEMT X5 tends to bring more similarities on both the ZS5 and X5 sound signatures. But, because of the X5's 4 way driver system per-side, placement of instruments and extended sound field gives the ZS5 the edge on a 3D-like presentation.


----------



## acia

ricemanhk said:


> In quiet environments I'm at 40-50% volume on my xiaomi mi 5 phone with my podcasts which tends to be mixed at lower volumes.  With music i'm at 30-40% volume.  Don't know why anyone would ever max out the volume for IEMs...


Good toys won't distort even at uber high volume. For zs5 the distortion and vibration is so obvious.


----------



## snip3r77

acia said:


> Good toys won't distort even at uber high volume. For zs5 the distortion and vibration is so obvious.



ZS5 distorting? What?


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> ....Using aftermarket "double-flange" tips, which I separately bought for my MEMT X5 tends to bring more similarities on both the ZS5 and X5 sound signatures. But, because of the X5's 4 way driver system per-side, placement of instruments and extended sound field gives the ZS5 the edge on a 3D-like presentation.



X5 to ZS5, is it a significant upgrade


----------



## ricemanhk (Jun 1, 2017)

acia said:


> Good toys won't distort even at uber high volume. For zs5 the distortion and vibration is so obvious.



That's like saying a ferrari is better so that I can drive 200mph into a tree.  Any speaker will distort when its physical limit is reached.  The zs5 limit is high enough for normal use; maybe not enough for rock concert musicians, but then they are not KZ's target customer 

FWIW I tried it 100% volume on my phone just for the sake of testing, and it doesn't vibrate.  And it's way louder than I'm willing to put into my ears to test, but hearing them outside I don't hear any crackling or pops, so maybe it's a QC issue for those who hear distortion and vibration.  Just like 1clearhead's grey set which didn't work when more power was given.


----------



## acia

ricemanhk said:


> That's like saying a ferrari is better so that I can drive 200mph into a tree.  Any speaker will distort when its physical limit is reached.  The zs5 limit is high enough for normal use; maybe not enough for rock concert musicians, but then they are not KZ's target customer
> 
> FWIW I tried it 100% volume on my phone just for the sake of testing, and it doesn't vibrate.  And it's way louder than I'm willing to put into my ears to test, but hearing them outside I don't hear any crackling or pops, so maybe it's a QC issue for those who hear distortion and vibration.  Just like 1clearhead's grey set which didn't work when more power was given.


Both of my zs5 vibrate and distort at same piece of music at uber high volume.  None of my other cans displayed such behaviour including zst.


----------



## Vidal

acia said:


> Both of my zs5 vibrate and distort at same piece of music at uber high volume.  None of my other cans displayed such behaviour including zst.



You're not saying what you're listening to or the device(s) you are using. You also say 'uber high volumes', I assume a volume that no self respecting audiophile would listen to in case they damage their ears.

What is this supposed to show, it seems completely irrelevant to a normal person's listening behaviour?


----------



## NDrew

I just got the ZS5 recently and coming from Tennmak Pro and Cello, the ZS5 sounds awesome.

In terms of sound quality, the sound stage, clarity and instrument separation all sound much better on the ZS5. The mids are ever so slightly recessed but other than that it's great.

That said, original cable is kinda annoying, it has that "rubbery sticky" feel to it. Ordered an silver upgrade cable, wonder if it'll improve the sound further.


----------



## acia

NDrew said:


> I just got the ZS5 recently and coming from Tennmak Pro and Cello, the ZS5 sounds awesome.
> 
> In terms of sound quality, the sound stage, clarity and instrument separation all sound much better on the ZS5. The mids are ever so slightly recessed but other than that it's great.
> 
> That said, original cable is kinda annoying, it has that "rubbery sticky" feel to it. Ordered an silver upgrade cable, wonder if it'll improve the sound further.


Upgrade cable a must.


----------



## Sylmar

The ZS5 really is a big upgrade from the Tennmak Pro which I also have. However I wish they had the Pro's comfort, they do tend to hurt my ears a bit after long use which I never had with the Pro which is my favourite IEM for comfort. Having both the original and silver cable I didn't notice any difference in sound myself. 

Listening to the ZS5 it's hard to believe that they are KZ's when compared to the ones I already have. They really made a big jump in sound quality here as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Modulus

I placed my order for ZS5 9 days ago, and it has still not shipped :/

Anyone else still waiting in the pre-order backlog? I ordered from Aliexpress seller ****.


----------



## Drakis

Chifi said:


> i was afraid i might damage the pins. i pushed it inside really hard and it locked in. thanks



Nice!


----------



## joshuadapitan (Jun 1, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> A friend of mine at work has been considering them. I have read that they are treble-cannons, and can have pretty significant sibilance (unbearable to some). That sound signature it way too bright/sharp for me, but he says he likes lots of treble. I stumbled across this recent mod (by member @joshuadapitan) that is supposed to provide some improvements: https://www.head-fi.org/f/articles/superlux-hd661-anti-sibilance-and-comfort-mod.19634/



Yes, I confirm they are a treble cannon headphones. To be honest, I mostly use them for monitoring. I find those treble cannon headphones does not hurt when used with a phone, or a dedicated studio mixer (of course with the mod applied), but when on amps, they seem to be unforgiving. I forgot to mention it on my review of the HD661. https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/superlux-hd661.13671/


----------



## Pankaj135

acia said:


> Both of my zs5 vibrate and distort at same piece of music at uber high volume.  None of my other cans displayed such behaviour including zst.



Get a replacement. It should not distort at high volume. Plus just to confirm check the earphones on other audio gear.


----------



## acia

Pankaj135 said:


> Get a replacement. It should not distort at high volume. Plus just to confirm check the earphones on other audio gear.


I have checked. Both cracked on high volume. 

Other toys won't have such behaviour.  

But if under normal listening volume. Both are doing well.


----------



## hoerlurar

I received my colorful zst yesterday. The mic-cable version i ordered now has memory wire, as others have said previously.
Haven't compared them to my other zst yet, could be interesting to see if there are any differences.

Thinking about the zs5 as well. I thought i would take a chi-fi break after buying the magaosi k3...


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> The ZS5 really is a big upgrade from the Tennmak Pro which I also have. However I wish they had the Pro's comfort, they do tend to hurt my ears a bit after long use which I never had with the Pro which is my favourite IEM for comfort. Having both the original and silver cable I didn't notice any difference in sound myself.
> 
> Listening to the ZS5 it's hard to believe that they are KZ's when compared to the ones I already have. They really made a big jump in sound quality here as far as I'm concerned.



FYI, more than 1 reports of removing the memory wire solving the comfort problems with the ZS5. The KZ memory wires are easy to remove (only takes a minute).


----------



## groucho69

Modulus said:


> I placed my order for ZS5 9 days ago, and it has still not shipped :/
> 
> Anyone else still waiting in the pre-order backlog? I ordered from Aliexpress seller ****.



Nope

2017-05-27 17:27

Electronic information has been received


----------



## To.M

I ordered my ZS5 from the seller who shall not be named on 19.05, they were sent on 26.05 and on 31.05 they arrived in my country. With a bit of luck I may get them tomorrow if not, then on Monday for sure.


----------



## eaglesgift

I ordered mine from H&Q on 26/05, dispatched on 28/05.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Does anyone have a photo of a ZST opened up


----------



## ricemanhk

NDrew said:


> I just got the ZS5 recently and coming from Tennmak Pro and Cello, the ZS5 sounds awesome.
> 
> In terms of sound quality, the sound stage, clarity and instrument separation all sound much better on the ZS5. The mids are ever so slightly recessed but other than that it's great.
> 
> That said, original cable is kinda annoying, it has that "rubbery sticky" feel to it. Ordered an silver upgrade cable, wonder if it'll improve the sound further.



The stickiness for the ZS3/ZS5 cable improves a bit after using it for a while, but yeah the upgrade cables are much nicer feeling if you don't like the rubbery stickiness.
ZST stock cable is THE WORST for rubbery sticky feel


----------



## nakedtoes

Just recieve


----------



## nakedtoes

My first impression of ZS5 is not bad but dun WOW me like the **** 4in1. ZS5 is definitely way better then the ZS3 with a more fuller 3D sound.  Clarity and details have to go to **** 4in1... Going to burn in further and compare again days later.


----------



## Vidal

Everytime I read 3D sound I think well that's just undermined what that person said as they doesn't really understand what they're listening to. Soundstage with earphones is L/R with maybe a perception of distance from the listener.

Anything more is misinterpretation.


----------



## Holypal

Vidal said:


> Everytime I read 3D sound I think well that's just undermined what that person said as they doesn't really understand what they're listening to. Soundstage with earphones is L/R with maybe a perception of distance from the listener.
> 
> Anything more is misinterpretation.



I have to disagree. At least for over-ear headphones, they do have 3D soundstage. Most of the hi-end headphones have angled drivers (or angled pads) to help to create a more realistic 3D soundstage, such as HD800 and T1. Fidelio X2 also has angled drivers. For iems, sometimes I have a similar feeling.


----------



## s4tch

Holypal said:


> I have to disagree. At least for over-ear headphones, they do have 3D soundstage. Most of the hi-end headphones have angled drivers (or angled pads) to help to create a more realistic 3D soundstage, such as HD800 and T1. Fidelio X2 also has angled drivers. For iems, sometimes I have a similar feeling.


he wrote about earphones, not headphones.

i haven't experienced 3d imaging from iem's either. this might be due to the relative lack of my experience, though.


----------



## TheWongWrong (Jun 2, 2017)

Opened up the ZST. Didn't do much with it tho


----------



## CoiL (Jun 2, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> You used the shiny gold filter on the ED9, right? Because the dull brass tip is unbearable as far as treble.
> 
> Also, I modded my ED9 and cleaned up the sound. Smoother treble, no sharpness at all, and much improved bass.





Vidal said:


> Everytime I read 3D sound I think well that's just undermined what that person said as they doesn't really understand what they're listening to. Soundstage with earphones is L/R with maybe a perception of distance from the listener.
> 
> Anything more is misinterpretation.



Well, I have to disagree also but there are lot of factors that may or may not make person to hear such "3D soundstage"... starting with our individual hearing perception, source gear, music MASTERING and quality (file format), proper seal with proper tips, source and earphones match etc.
I have heard plenty enough open-back over-head headphones and have Fidelio X1.... while I agree that IEMs mostly don`t have such big holographic "3D" soundstage, many come very close to open-back headphones and can be even superior in some sound aspects depending on music and source gear used.


----------



## Vidal

Holypal said:


> I have to disagree. At least for over-ear headphones, they do have 3D soundstage. Most of the hi-end headphones have angled drivers (or angled pads) to help to create a more realistic 3D soundstage, such as HD800 and T1. Fidelio X2 also has angled drivers. For iems, sometimes I have a similar feeling.





CoiL said:


> Well, I have to disagree also but there are lot of factors that may or may not make person to hear such "3D soundstage"... starting with our individual hearing perception, source gear, music MASTERING and quality (file format), proper seal with proper tips, source and earphones match etc.
> I have heard plenty enough open-back over-head headphones and have Fidelio X1.... while I agree that IEMs mostly don`t have such big holographic "3D" soundstage, many come very close to open-back headphones and can be even inferior in some sound aspects depending on music and source gear used.



I would suggest you both read this thread, any further discussion would be better in there as well as not to take this one further off topic.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/how-do-we-hear-height-in-a-recording-with-earphones.840736/

Succinctly put you may be interpreting it as 3D but it can only be 2D, it's a mistake, we get height information comes from our own outer ear, and reflections from our head shape etc. Plus recordings don't capture this detail and even they did you'd not get this with IEMs


----------



## CoiL (Jun 2, 2017)

Maybe 3D isn`t right term to describe "surrounding soundstage effect, frontal depth, height and such" but I have read enough about it and I don`t want to fall into this subject because it is too full of sceptics and ppl who consider only scientific facts, nubers (1&2-L&R) and don`t understand and consider many other factors.
Your thread was mainly only about height  - which I admit not hearing much myself too in recordings but I do hear differences in frontal depth/distance and layering, stereo distance and separation - those alone/together can create pretty "holographic" illusion like You are in concert hall or in middle and surrounded by sounds/instruments. But like I told it depends on many factors and ppl who are just listening to typical heavily compressed pop-music with little details/effects and poor mastering, those ppl often don`t sense "holographic" soundstage as many audiophiles because their brain just isn`t used to and don`t know how to interpret those effects/sounds. I`ve "tested" this with many friends and they don`t sense where from one sound is coming or approaching (sound movement) so well as I and some other mates do.
But they get more "accurate" when I let them hear some binaural recordings or chesky test records. After they spent some time with such audio and better gear, they start to sense and understand better (brain is adjusting) to sound and its aspects.
I got similar test descriptions and opinions from Your thread too btw.

Well.... I`ll just stop it here and agree that "3D" is bad term describing sound and nor have I heard/sensed much height in recordings. There are better terms than "3D" for describing certain sound aspects.


----------



## Spelaeus

Vidal said:


> I would suggest you both read this thread, any further discussion would be better in there as well as not to take this one further off topic.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/how-do-we-hear-height-in-a-recording-with-earphones.840736/
> 
> Succinctly put you may be interpreting it as 3D but it can only be 2D, it's a mistake, we get height information comes from our own outer ear, and reflections from our head shape etc. Plus recordings don't capture this detail and even they did you'd not get this with IEMs



Playing devil's advocate as I've yet to receive my ZS5s, and I feel comfortable making this argument here as it's KZ-specific.
I understand the skepticism regarding 3D imaging in an IEM with a single driver. But isn't it entirely possible that a multi-driver IEM with drivers at varying distances from the ear (And 3 of the 4 at an angle relative to the nozzle going by some of the internal images) could provide a sense of 3D sound imaging? And even if you argue that it's an aural illusion given the lack of outer-ear influence, I'm not sure how the perception of 3D imaging is meaningfully different from "actual" 3D imaging in this scenario.


----------



## all999

Vidal said:


> I would suggest you both read this thread, any further discussion would be better in there as well as not to take this one further off topic.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/how-do-we-hear-height-in-a-recording-with-earphones.840736/
> 
> Succinctly put you may be interpreting it as 3D but it can only be 2D, it's a mistake, we get height information comes from our own outer ear, and reflections from our head shape etc. Plus recordings don't capture this detail and even they did you'd not get this with IEMs



It doesn't matter how You manage it. If Your brain hear 3D, it's a 3D.


----------



## Vidal

CoiL said:


> Maybe 3D isn`t right term to describe "surrounding soundstage effect, frontal depth, height and such" but I have read enough about it and I don`t want to fall into this subject because it is too full of sceptics and ppl who consider only scientific facts, nubers (1&2-L&R) and don`t understand and consider many other factors.
> Your thread was mainly only about height  - which I admit not hearing much myself too in recordings but I do hear differences in frontal depth/distance and layering, stereo distance and separation - those alone/together can create pretty "holographic" illusion like You are in concert hall or in middle and surrounded by sounds/instruments. But like I told it depends on many factors and ppl who are just listening to typical heavily compressed pop-music with little details/effects and poor mastering, those ppl often don`t sense "holographic" soundstage as many audiophiles because their brain just isn`t used to and don`t know how to interpret those effects/sounds. I`ve "tested" this with many friends and they don`t sense where from one sound is coming or approaching (sound movement) so well as I and some other mates do.
> But they get more "accurate" when I let them hear some binaural recordings or chesky test records. After they spent some time with such audio and better gear, they start to sense and understand better (brain is adjusting) to sound and its aspects.
> I got similar test descriptions and opinions from Your thread too btw.
> ...



It's the height dimension, that's the one I don't hear and couldn't understand why when others could. I read up on it ,and thought to throw it out to the sound science forum to get a better understanding and to see whether what I'd read was wrong. 

I can get a great 2D experience based on L/R position and I guess volume of individual elements when everything comes into place but never height.


----------



## Vidal

Spelaeus said:


> Playing devil's advocate as I've yet to receive my ZS5s, and I feel comfortable making this argument here as it's KZ-specific.
> I understand the skepticism regarding 3D imaging in an IEM with a single driver. But isn't it entirely possible that a multi-driver IEM with drivers at varying distances from the ear (And 3 of the 4 at an angle relative to the nozzle going by some of the internal images) could provide a sense of 3D sound imaging? And even if you argue that it's an aural illusion given the lack of outer-ear influence, I'm not sure how the perception of 3D imaging is meaningfully different from "actual" 3D imaging in this scenario.



Doesn't matter how many drivers or their positions that information isn't captured in a normal stereo recording to start with.


----------



## Vidal

all999 said:


> It doesn't matter how You manage it. If Your brain hear 3D, it's a 3D.



Yes, the earth is flat and only 6000 years old as well.


----------



## groucho69

Spelaeus said:


> Playing devil's advocate as I've yet to receive my ZS5s, and I feel comfortable making this argument here as it's KZ-specific.
> I understand the skepticism regarding 3D imaging in an IEM with a single driver. But isn't it entirely possible that a multi-driver IEM with drivers at varying distances from the ear (And 3 of the 4 at an angle relative to the nozzle going by some of the internal images) could provide a sense of 3D sound imaging? And even if you argue that it's an aural illusion given the lack of outer-ear influence, I'm not sure how the perception of 3D imaging is meaningfully different from "actual" 3D imaging in this scenario.



Ah for the days of Quadraphonic sound.


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Maybe 3D isn`t right term to describe "surrounding soundstage effect, frontal depth, height and such" but I have read enough about it and I don`t want to fall into this subject because it is too full of sceptics and ppl who consider only scientific facts, nubers (1&2-L&R) and don`t understand and consider many other factors.
> Your thread was mainly only about height  - which I admit not hearing much myself too in recordings but I do hear differences in frontal depth/distance and layering, stereo distance and separation - those alone/together can create pretty "holographic" illusion like You are in concert hall or in middle and surrounded by sounds/instruments. But like I told it depends on many factors and ppl who are just listening to typical heavily compressed pop-music with little details/effects and poor mastering, those ppl often don`t sense "holographic" soundstage as many audiophiles because their brain just isn`t used to and don`t know how to interpret those effects/sounds. I`ve "tested" this with many friends and they don`t sense where from one sound is coming or approaching (sound movement) so well as I and some other mates do.
> But they get more "accurate" when I let them hear some binaural recordings or chesky test records. After they spent some time with such audio and better gear, they start to sense and understand better (brain is adjusting) to sound and its aspects.
> I got similar test descriptions and opinions from Your thread too btw.
> ...



Hey Coil, loving the Avatar, is that some of your customization? You are correct in that 3D is not a good description although I feel some consider multiple factors to be creating a 3D sound field for them, all999's article there is pretty good as a reference. I also believe many larger cans are designed to mimic 3D (just having the space within the cup can do this sometimes). So enough of that as we all hear it differently, I am anxious however to get my ZS5's in and see what all the ruckus is about Love reading what a step up they are from ZS3 & ZST's which are still my top dog KZ but then again I love my ZS3's depending on genre. Here's my 343 rig (U3/iPhone4/ZS3)



 
Then again who ever knew one could get a budget rig with $9.99 iem's that could sound this good!


 
I mean the ED9's were the KZ's that originally got me into budget iem's and to this day I still enjoy listening to them


----------



## sidmaximus

I'm looking to buy my first KZ IEMs but I'm not sure which one. I mostly listen to power metal, prog metal, rock and classical. When I listen to music, I search for clarity and crispness. I'm not really a fan of bass-heavy sound but its good to have that sometimes. I love my Grado SR80 and ATH-M50.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 2, 2017)

sidmaximus said:


> I'm looking to buy my first KZ IEMs but I'm not sure which one. I mostly listen to power metal, prog metal, rock and classical. When I listen to music, I search for clarity and crispness. I'm not really a fan of bass-heavy sound but its good to have that sometimes. I love my Grado SR80 and ATH-M50.



The original ED3 (silver model) sounds like it would be right up your alley.

Edit: This one.


----------



## sidmaximus

B9Scrambler said:


> The original ED3 (silver model) sounds like it would be right up your alley.
> 
> Edit: This one.



Thank you. ED3 it is.


----------



## kokakolia

sidmaximus said:


> I'm looking to buy my first KZ IEMs but I'm not sure which one. I mostly listen to power metal, prog metal, rock and classical. When I listen to music, I search for clarity and crispness. I'm not really a fan of bass-heavy sound but its good to have that sometimes. I love my Grado SR80 and ATH-M50.



You'd love the KZ ZST actually. It is what you described. 

Me personally, I don't like having too much treble. So the KZ ED7 is the one for me. It has plenty of detail, it sounds balanced. But the treble is sort of rolled off (which I like) so some people find it dull.


----------



## danspy

Like the ZST the ZS5 needs Low outputimpedance to really shine


----------



## trollin863

kokakolia said:


> You'd love the KZ ZST actually. It is what you described.
> 
> Me personally, I don't like having too much treble. So the KZ ED7 is the one for me. It has plenty of detail, it sounds balanced. But the treble is sort of rolled off (which I like) so some people find it dull.



I just bought the ED7 standard size a few nights ago. The bamboo I thought was very cool and unique looking. ED7 is supposed to sound somewhat like the ATR. 

The next KZ iem on my radar to get besides the zs5 obviously is the original zs1. I guess I need to message sellers on eBay and AliExpress to find the old 2015 model that has the brass ring. But my buddy Scrambler I was reading his posts from a few months back in this thread describing the OG zs1s as the Lord of bass. Sounds like something I need as a basshead


----------



## toddy0191

Viber said:


> *She's good.


*She's banned!


----------



## Modulus

What do you mean by this, that she's banned? 

By the way, I had been waiting since 23.05 for my ZS5 to ship, and they finally did yesterday! Hoping the shipment is fast.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Poor business practices. Discussion of that store is not permitted on Head-fi. You'd have to find the old Chinese thread for the reasons why.


----------



## Slater (Jun 3, 2017)

trollin863 said:


> The next KZ iem on my radar to get besides the zs5 obviously is the original zs1. I guess I need to message sellers on eBay and AliExpress to find the old 2015 model that has the brass ring. But my buddy Scrambler I was reading his posts from a few months back in this thread describing the OG zs1s as the Lord of bass. Sounds like something I need as a basshead



ZS1 rev 1 is my favorite KZ by far. If I had to get rid of all my other KZs and only keep 1, that would be it.

A few sellers still have them. Just gotta do the work by messaging the sellers. That's how I found my backup pair. Interestingly, I was accidentally sent the ZS1 rev 2 by one seller, and they sounded terrible in comparison.


----------



## snip3r77

How to get the cheapest zs5?


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> ZS1 rev 1 is my favorite KZ by far. If I had to get rid of all my other KZs and only keep 1, that would be it.
> 
> A few sellers still have them. Just gotta do the work by messaging the sellers. That's how I found my backup pair. Interestingly, I was accidentally sent the ZS1 rev 2 by one seller, and they sounded terrible in comparison.



The current version is the same as the ZN1 Mini but with the ZS1's cable setup. I found it a lot less bassy. More detailed, but also less refined. It lacks that silky smoothness of the original ZS1. Not bad but not as unique.


----------



## Pankaj135

toddy0191 said:


> *She's banned!



I got the notice. *He's banned. "He's".


----------



## Slater (Jun 3, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> The current version is the same as the ZN1 Mini but with the ZS1's cable setup. I found it a lot less bassy. More detailed, but also less refined. It lacks that silky smoothness of the original ZS1. Not bad but not as unique.



Yeah, I always wondered why they released the ZN1 Mini & the ZS1 rev 2. Why not just 1 or the other?

I also liked the ZN1 (non-Mini), but mine crapped out  after a few months, & when I tried to repair it the thing literally fell apart beyond all repair.

Anyone here ever try the ZS2? I always wondered what it was like, but never had the desire to try it out.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, I always wondered why they released the ZN1 Mini & the ZS1 rev 2. Why not just 1 or the other?
> 
> I also liked the ZN1 (non-Mini), but mine crapped out  after a few months, & when I tried to repair it the thing literally fell apart beyond all repair.
> 
> Anyone here ever try the ZS2? I always wondered what it was like, but never had the desire to try it out.



ZN1 Mini was more liked. I do think they are the better earphone on a technical level (better driver coherency, improved frequency balance, higher levels of detail and clarity), they just lack the excitement of the original ZS1. ZS2 is apparently the same as the current ZS1, just in blue. Can't verify that myself since I don't have them.


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> Anyone here ever try the ZS2? I always wondered what it was like, but never had the desire to try it out.


----------



## Viber

toddy0191 said:


> *She's banned!



I was just indicating that the seller was a female and not a male.
I don't know anything else about that store lol


----------



## ostewart

KS5's have landed. I'll update soon.


----------



## Sylmar

Do KZ ZS3 and/or ZST cables fit the KZ ZS5 as well?


----------



## TheVortex

Sylmar said:


> Do KZ ZS3 and/or ZST cables fit the KZ ZS5 as well?



ZS3 cables will fit ZS5. ZST cables are slightly different.


----------



## Sylmar

TheVortex said:


> ZS3 cables will fit ZS5. ZST cables are slightly different.


Thanks. I thought that there would a be lot of aftermarket cables for the ZS3 I could use for my ZS5 to improve comfort but apparently there aren't. Maybe that will change with the ZS5 who knows. Just found one but with a hefty pricetag of twice the IEMS.


----------



## CoiL

Podster said:


> Hey Coil, loving the Avatar, is that some of your customization?


Yes, one of my mods - VE NUN (monk drivers inside).


----------



## geoemm

danspy said:


> Like the ZST the ZS5 needs Low output impedance to really shine


OMG, i bought ZS5 and have ordered zuperdac from massdrop. heard zuperdac has an impedance of 5-6ohm


----------



## TheVortex

Sylmar said:


> Thanks. I thought that there would a be lot of aftermarket cables for the ZS3 I could use for my ZS5 to improve comfort but apparently there aren't. Maybe that will change with the ZS5 who knows. Just found one but with a hefty pricetag of twice the IEMS.



When or if you buy the ZS5, buy it with mic cable and the silver "upgrade" cable and have the best of both worlds. ZS3 doesn't have many aftermarket cables as the IEM is so cheap so what's the point as they are throw away items if they become faulty.


----------



## Sil3nce

Some of us will do well to heed the title of the thread: enough with the off-topic posts.

It's quite simple, don't mention banned sellers and don't get into sound science discussions on an impressions thread.

Thanks.


----------



## Johnny_Joestar

slaterlovesspam said:


> This is an all too common issue with the KZ 2-pin models, and is usually caused by accidentally plugging in the cable backwards. The plug will technically "fit" when plugged in backwards, but the only thing holding it in is the friction of the pins (allowing it to separate & fall apart at any time). Plugging one side in backwards will also cause that side to be out of phase.
> 
> When both plugs are oriented properly and seated fully, it takes an incredible amount of force to unplug them. There is a tight mechanical fitment due to the plug's shape - curved on one end and flat on the other - and it's designed to fit like a key in a lock.
> 
> ...



My main issue was that the pin connectors actually bent over time, so the left would detach itself occasionally. This was what resulted in me losing it 3 times.


----------



## kokakolia

trollin863 said:


> I just bought the ED7 standard size a few nights ago. The bamboo I thought was very cool and unique looking. ED7 is supposed to sound somewhat like the ATR.
> 
> The next KZ iem on my radar to get besides the zs5 obviously is the original zs1. I guess I need to message sellers on eBay and AliExpress to find the old 2015 model that has the brass ring. But my buddy Scrambler I was reading his posts from a few months back in this thread describing the OG zs1s as the Lord of bass. Sounds like something I need as a basshead



Congrats! I hope you'll like the ED7s. Because I like them a lot. They're easy on the ears.


----------



## Sylmar (Jun 4, 2017)

TheVortex said:


> When or if you buy the ZS5, buy it with mic cable and the silver "upgrade" cable and have the best of both worlds. ZS3 doesn't have many aftermarket cables as the IEM is so cheap so what's the point as they are throw away items if they become faulty.



I do have the original cable and the silver one but neither are very comfortable to me. I've seen an upgrade cable from a reseller but it's overly expensive (more than twice the cost of the ZS5). I think you're right that the ZS3 is so cheap that it doesn't pay to manifacture third party cables. Now that the ZS5 is out and being a more expensive item it will be interesting to see if it can create some kind of aftermarket manifacturing.

Edit: Removed the memory wire as a fellow Headfi-er gave me the advice to. BIG difference in comfort!


----------



## acia

snip3r77 said:


> How to get the cheapest zs5?


hk


----------



## Comebackboy

I just got my zs5. First impressions are good. Coming from the zs3, this is a pretty good improvement. Comfort doesnt bother me as of yet but I will see how it goes as I continue to test it out. Overall seems like a pretty good purchase for the price.


----------



## Pronounta

Hello,

I'm currently looking for new KZ in ears to buy after I lost my old ones. 

I generally prefer a more neutral/natural sound signature. I really liked the ZS3 that I owned previously, but they had too much bass for me. Is there a better alternative with less bass? And if not, is there a definite best model of KZ-in ears currently?


----------



## chinmie

Pronounta said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm currently looking for new KZ in ears to buy after I lost my old ones.
> 
> I generally prefer a more neutral/natural sound signature. I really liked the ZS3 that I owned previously, but they had too much bass for me. Is there a better alternative with less bass? And if not, is there a definite best model of KZ-in ears currently?



if you like the sound of ZS3 with less bass, you could try do the slatermod to them, or you could try buy the ATR


----------



## kokakolia

chinmie said:


> if you like the sound of ZS3 with less bass, you could try do the slatermod to them, or you could try buy the ATR



The ED7 works too. But you may like the design of the ATR better.


----------



## danspy

geoemm said:


> OMG, i bought ZS5 and have ordered zuperdac from massdrop. heard zuperdac has an impedance of 5-6ohm



5 Ohm and below should be OK.


----------



## Pankaj135 (Jun 4, 2017)

Pronounta said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm currently looking for new KZ in ears to buy after I lost my old ones.
> 
> I generally prefer a more neutral/natural sound signature. I really liked the ZS3 that I owned previously, but they had too much bass for me. Is there a better alternative with less bass? And if not, is there a definite best model of KZ-in ears currently?



Cheap ? ATR
Mid budget? ZST
Best? ZS5

pretty positive and most of the people here like these models the most.

In case of ATR if you want less surround sound more intimate sound go with latest ATE. They are the least fatiguing KZ yet I think. Plus ATE is the neutral type too.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Degree said:


> Can someone give me the differences between the ZS3 and ZST?
> 
> Seems like the zs3 is the most popular model
> 
> Thanks!


I do have both and the ZS2

# Zs3 (single dynamic driver) sounds very dynamic and powerfull, there is a lot off bass, good trebles, voices are not recessed, but it pushes too hard for me. Silver plated optional cable is a nice option that adds a bit off sharpness to the trebles and  tighter bass.
# Zst (hybrid) is more calm. Trebles (due to the extra BA driver) are very sharp and realist, specialy for percussions, small noises, brass and wind instruments 
Bass is verry good, sound transition between the two drivers (dynamic & BA) is very smooth.
# Zs2 (dual dynamic drivers) is my favorite with Zst The sound is very natural.


----------



## CoiL

>


Pankaj135 said:


> In case of ATR if you want *less surround sound more intimate sound go with latest ATE*. They are the least fatiguing KZ yet I think. Plus ATE is the neutral type too.



Hmmm... with my gear, music, ATE has actually better soundstage (larger, more distance and frontal depth). ATR frontal stage is closer and more intimate but stereo width separation is better and goes further.


----------



## TheVortex

Sylmar said:


> I do have the original cable and the silver one but neither are very comfortable to me. I've seen an upgrade cable from a reseller but it's overly expensive (more than twice the cost of the ZS5). I think you're right that the ZS3 is so cheap that it doesn't pay to manifacture third party cables. Now that the ZS5 is out and being a more expensive item it will be interesting to see if it can create some kind of aftermarket manifacturing.
> 
> Edit: Removed the memory wire as a fellow Headfi-er gave me the advice to. BIG difference in comfort!



My ZS5 have not arrived.  Have you got some advice on how to remove the memory wire and is that with silver cable?


----------



## Sylmar (Jun 4, 2017)

TheVortex said:


> My ZS5 have not arrived.  Have you got some advice on how to remove the memory wire and is that with silver cable?



I did it with the original cable, seemed a bit easier to me. Basically the memory wire is just a strip of metal under some soft plastic wrapping. I just took the end and pierced the wrapping holding it in place. You then can just tear it out through the cable wrapping and gently use some pliers to tear the other end of the iron strip from the cable connector itself. The remaining wrapping you can easily tear off.

Bit hard to describe but all in all it's pretty easy. At least with the standard cable.


----------



## fallrsk

So..Can anyone compare their ZS5 and Piston Pro HD's? I just got a pair and they blow everything out of the water that's Chi-Fi in my hands.. Wonder how the ZS5 stacks up.


----------



## Pankaj135

CoiL said:


> >
> 
> 
> Hmmm... with my gear, music, ATE has actually better soundstage (larger, more distance and frontal depth). ATR frontal stage is closer and more intimate but stereo width separation is better and goes further.



I'm using Samsung Galaxy s3 with Wolfson dac. In ATR you can easily differentiate sounds between left and right channels and has higher clarity thus might be giving me a effect of wide sound?

In ATE sound differentiation between left and right channels is a bit less. Clarity is a bit less. Sort of giving less wide sound than ATR? 

I dunno I currently don't have a good gear around so there might be differences in opinion


----------



## Slater (Jun 5, 2017)

Pronounta said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm currently looking for new KZ in ears to buy after I lost my old ones.
> 
> I generally prefer a more neutral/natural sound signature. I really liked the ZS3 that I owned previously, but they had too much bass for me. Is there a better alternative with less bass? And if not, is there a definite best model of KZ-in ears currently?



My recommendations for more neutral/less bass than the ZS3 would be:

1. HDS3 (very small; worn down)
2. ED9 (has 2 different filters so you can tune the sound to your liking, worn down)
3. ATR (worn up)
4. ATE (worn up, sounds very similar to ATR but the ATR is more refined and superior IMO)

Also, the ZST has less bass than ZS3, but the bass is punchy and has nice bright treble. Once of my favorite KZs, although not as comfortable as the ZS3. The ZST isn't nearly as neutral as the others in the above list, but it's a hybrid design and a very capable performer.

You can also do the slater foam mod to the ZS3 to reduce the overly bloated bass. It doesn't cost you a dime, and only tales a few minutes.

I also do not own the ZS5 so I don't know where it would rank on the above list. But for the price of 1 pair of ZS5 you can pretty much buy every IEM on that list instead. Just something to think about.


----------



## Pete7

Had the ZS5 for a week now. At first I felt they sounded real closed-in like, but my error was trying to get as deep an insertion as I could get. A shallow-as-possible insertion (with spinfit tips- good staying power) and the sound opened up quite a bit. Even the comfort improved, which is surprising considering how god-awful tubby the housings are. I also removed the original screens (no black foam in there) and replaced them with screens I got from aliexpress. Keep in mind, if you remove the screens on the ZS5, they're a bitch to put back on.


----------



## Slater

ZS5 is on pre-sale at Gearbest now. The hype train rolls on woo-wooo!

http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## chinmie

@slaterlovesspam do you ever done the slatermod on the ATR beside the KZ3? I'm curious what the sound like


----------



## Slater (Jun 5, 2017)

chinmie said:


> @slaterlovesspam do you ever done the slatermod on the ATR beside the KZ3? I'm curious what the sound like



I don't believe the ATR has any tuning foam. The only KZs that I've (personally) seen with tuning foam in the nozzle is the ZS3 & the ED9 (shiny gold filter). Perhaps other KZs use it; I just haven't run into it yet. I've never opened up a ATR to see what unique features it has (and if there could be any possible tuning improvements).

I did however do the open grille mod on the ATE (the older brother to the ATR). I had very good results with that:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1106#post-13350513

I was considering doing the same thing to the ATR, I just haven't gotten around to it. I really like the ATR as-is though, so I kind of don't want to 'mess with a good thing'. Although now that I think about it, the sound of the ATR combined with the huge soundstage from the open grille mod could be a killer combination!


----------



## s4tch

slaterlovesspam said:


> ZS5 is on pre-sale at Gearbest now. The hype train rolls on woo-wooo!
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


banggood have better prices. so i jumped on the hype train too.


----------



## Slater

s4tch said:


> banggood have better prices. so i jumped on the hype train too.



True, and the Aliexpress sellers also offer it with the silver and gold cables (Gearbest only has the stock cable).

But the fact that Gearbest will have it soon means that it will be put on Flash Sale from time to time. And then the price should be better than Aliexpress, because usually the Gearbest Flash Sales are ridiculous prices!


----------



## eaglesgift

fallrsk said:


> So..Can anyone compare their ZS5 and Piston Pro HD's? I just got a pair and they blow everything out of the water that's Chi-Fi in my hands.. Wonder how the ZS5 stacks up.


I'm a newbie as far as Ch-Fi IEMs are concerned so you can take my thoughts with a pinch of salt but as I got the Pro HDs a couple of weeks ago and the ZS5s a couple of hours ago, I thought I'd answer your question to the best of my ability.

To my ears, the ZS5s have more forward mids, a bit more upper mids, and more detail in the mid range generally. Listening to Come Away With Me the Pro HDs sound great, very smooth, detailed, musical and refined. The main difference I hear with the ZS5s is that Norah's voice is a little more prominent and textured - you can hear the breathiness in her voice and it's therefore a more sensual listening experience (for me at least). I wouldn't say they blow the Pro HDs out of the water but they are very nice. If I had a criticism and again, please bear in mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, the ZS5s may sound a little less cohesive....the bass may be a touch flabby at times and they just sound a little slower than the Pro HDs. So to summarise, the ZS5s seem a little more detailed and spacious but perhaps a touch less cohesive.

Listening again as I type, the ZS5s are definitely a fair bit stronger in the mids and treble department than the Pro HDs to my ears, and more detailed.And perhaps the bass isn't really flabby...just a bit looser than the Pro HDs (I blocked the ports on mine to enhance the bass). I'd need to do a lot more listening to come up with a better impression but that's the best I can do at the moment. I think the best thing I can say about the ZS5s right now is that I don't want to take them out to compare them to anything else, I want to carry on enjoying them! To be honest, my 'cohesive' comments could just be down to a lack of experience. I really like these IEMs. They are lively and don't seem to be too unbalanced, to my uneducated ears.


----------



## snip3r77

eaglesgift said:


> I'm a newbie as far as Ch-Fi IEMs are concerned so you can take my thoughts with a pinch of salt but as I got the Pro HDs a couple of weeks ago and the ZS5s a couple of hours ago, I thought I'd answer your question to the best of my ability.
> 
> To my ears, the ZS5s have more forward mids, a bit more upper mids, and more detail in the mid range generally. Listening to Come Away With Me the Pro HDs sound great, very smooth, detailed, musical and refined. The main difference I hear with the ZS5s is that Norah's voice is a little more prominent and textured - you can hear the breathiness in her voice and it's therefore a more sensual listening experience (for me at least). I wouldn't say they blow the Pro HDs out of the water but they are very nice. If I had a criticism and again, please bear in mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, the ZS5s may sound a little less cohesive....the bass may be a touch flabby at times and they just sound a little slower than the Pro HDs. So to summarise, the ZS5s seem a little more detailed and spacious but perhaps a touch less cohesive.
> 
> Listening again as I type, the ZS5s are definitely a fair bit stronger in the mids and treble department than the Pro HDs to my ears, and more detailed.And perhaps the bass isn't really flabby...just a bit looser than the Pro HDs (I blocked the ports on mine to enhance the bass). I'd need to do a lot more listening to come up with a better impression but that's the best I can do at the moment. I think the best thing I can say about the ZS5s right now is that I don't want to take them out to compare them to anything else, I want to carry on enjoying them! To be honest, my 'cohesive' comments could just be down to a lack of experience. I really like these IEMs. They are lively and don't seem to be too unbalanced, to my uneducated ears.



I have the Pro HD too, so is this a side-grade? How is the treble compared to Pro HD? Does the ZS5 has hot treble?


----------



## Vidal

My ZS5s have arrived, I will have some initial thoughts up on my website within 24 hours. Surprised that the cable is iPhone volume control friendly.


----------



## Sylmar (Jun 5, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I'm a newbie as far as Ch-Fi IEMs are concerned so you can take my thoughts with a pinch of salt but as I got the Pro HDs a couple of weeks ago and the ZS5s a couple of hours ago, I thought I'd answer your question to the best of my ability.
> 
> To my ears, the ZS5s have more forward mids, a bit more upper mids, and more detail in the mid range generally. Listening to Come Away With Me the Pro HDs sound great, very smooth, detailed, musical and refined. The main difference I hear with the ZS5s is that Norah's voice is a little more prominent and textured - you can hear the breathiness in her voice and it's therefore a more sensual listening experience (for me at least). I wouldn't say they blow the Pro HDs out of the water but they are very nice. If I had a criticism and again, please bear in mind that I don't know what I'm talking about, the ZS5s may sound a little less cohesive....the bass may be a touch flabby at times and they just sound a little slower than the Pro HDs. So to summarise, the ZS5s seem a little more detailed and spacious but perhaps a touch less cohesive.
> 
> Listening again as I type, the ZS5s are definitely a fair bit stronger in the mids and treble department than the Pro HDs to my ears, and more detailed.And perhaps the bass isn't really flabby...just a bit looser than the Pro HDs (I blocked the ports on mine to enhance the bass). I'd need to do a lot more listening to come up with a better impression but that's the best I can do at the moment. I think the best thing I can say about the ZS5s right now is that I don't want to take them out to compare them to anything else, I want to carry on enjoying them! To be honest, my 'cohesive' comments could just be down to a lack of experience. I really like these IEMs. They are lively and don't seem to be too unbalanced, to my uneducated ears.



Very interesting description, thanks! I've yet to try taping the vent. Will try that next. And tiprolling of course.


----------



## eaglesgift

snip3r77 said:


> I have the Pro HD too, so is this a side-grade? How is the treble compared to Pro HD? Does the ZS5 has hot treble?


A more experienced ear would be better qualified to answer your questions but I'll try. I didn't find the treble harsh or painful but female vocals were significantly more forward and did cause me to lower the volume slightly. I've only had an hour or two with them so I'm not comfortable making a definitive statement about whether they are better than the Pro HD. They are easier to drive (was using a Cayin N3) and the more prominent middle and treble, together with a bit more detail, makes them a little more pleasurable and exciting to my ears so far.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi (Jun 5, 2017)

My ZS5's are being passed around the office. Consensus so far is, they are excellent for the price.

But there is a slight dip somewhere in the midrange, that makes them sound not 100% right. But again this is after listening to high end headphones.

For the price they are very very good, and KZ are nearly there in terms of getting the sound right, it has sub-bass extension, detailed sound, deep but not very wide soundstage, and crisp highs that are not fatiguing.

Comply 500 series fit them perfectly.


----------



## Cya|\|

Vidal said:


> My ZS5s have arrived, I will have some initial thoughts up on my website within 24 hours. Surprised that the cable is iPhone volume control friendly.



Looking forward to it. 



Oscar-HiFi said:


> My KS5's are being passed around the office. Consensus so far is, they are excellent for the price.
> 
> But there is a slight dip somewhere in the midrange, that makes them sound not 100% right. But again this is after listening to high end headphones.
> 
> ...



You mean the ZS5? What hiend headphones are you comparing them to? I wonder if the mids can be improved with a little eq.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Cya|\| said:


> Looking forward to it.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the ZS5? What hiend headphones are you comparing them to? I wonder if the mids can be improved with a little eq.



Yep ZS5's (changed now). Well we have a large number of headphones so we listen to a wide range all the time. So my refence is always a balanced sound, or my customs that are Inearz P350.

Comparing to lower end models that are around the same price, the ZS5's are incredible value, but it is clear there is a slight dip in the mid range, that EQ might fix and I shall mess about with EQ a little.

Recently I have been listening to the Dunu DN2002, and DK3001, both are more coherent in their sound, it sounds more together and refined.


----------



## Cya|\|

I see. Have you burned-in the zs5 or have they just arrived at your office? In any case, I'm happy that you can find so good iems for 30$


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## Oscar-HiFi

Cya|\| said:


> I see. Have you burned-in the zs5 or have they just arrived at your office? In any case, I'm happy that you can find so good iems for 30$



They are my personal pair that I have taken to work 

Not fully burnt in so that may make a small difference too.


----------



## Vidal

The ZS5 are definitely a step up from the ZST, there's a wider soundstage and better imaging. These are fairly balanced with slightly (very slightly) recessed mids, they are not bass monsters that's for sure. I didn't get much sibilance from my test track but some might find the treble too much.


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## B9Scrambler

Vidal said:


> The ZS5 are definitely a step up from the ZST, there's a wider soundstage and better imaging. These are fairly balanced with slightly (very slightly) recessed mids, they are not bass monsters that's for sure. I didn't get much sibilance from my test track but some might find the treble too much.



Good stuff! Looking forward to mine arriving.


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## Cya|\|

Cool. I hope the highs get tamed with burn-in.


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## Oscar-HiFi (Jun 5, 2017)

I advise tip rolling with the ZS5's, they change a lot with different tips (Comply seems to work well, for anyone that wants to tame the highs a bit).


----------



## mehrdadb3

please compare kz zs5 with urbanfun - memt x5 - tennmak pro or piano
its good with benjie s5?


----------



## volly

Any KZ iem's that would be well suited for a desktop setup? Would love a monitoring type iem wtth a decent length cord too!


----------



## kokakolia

volly said:


> Any KZ iem's that would be well suited for a desktop setup? Would love a monitoring type iem wtth a decent length cord too!



You'll definitely want an extension chord for your desktop. 

Is there such a thing as a monitoring IEM???

I'd spend at least around $100 for a SONY MDR 7506 or better, a set of Micca Monitoring speakers. 

A Sennheiser HD 280 pro would probably work as well.


----------



## Pronounta

Can anyone of the ZS5-owners tell me how it compares to other KZ-in-ears? I would like to buy them but I don't know if it is worth the increased price compared to the ED9 or the ZST which I would buy otherwise.


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## Sylmar (Jun 5, 2017)

Pronounta said:


> Can anyone of the ZS5-owners tell me how it compares to other KZ-in-ears? I would like to buy them but I don't know if it is worth the increased price compared to the ED9 or the ZST which I would buy otherwise.



I don't have the ZST but I do have the ED9, ATR, ATE and a whole lot of others. The ZS5 is a big step up for KZ as a brand in my view.


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## Spelaeus

My KZ ZS5s just arrived today. Ended up getting the nicer packaging despite being in NYS. Haven't been able to spend a ton of time with them but quite pleased so far. Definitely an upgrade over the ZST and a bargain at roughly $30. Comfort seems fine.


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## 1clearhead

....I personally think, KZ ZS5 is their best model, by far.


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## B9Scrambler

Spelaeus said:


> My KZ ZS5s just arrived today. *Ended up getting the nicer packaging despite being in NYS*. Haven't been able to spend a ton of time with them but quite pleased so far. Definitely an upgrade over the ZST and a bargain at roughly $30. Comfort seems fine.



Whaa!? Who'd you buy them from? Lucky dog!


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## Slater

Spelaeus said:


> My KZ ZS5s just arrived today. Ended up getting the nicer packaging despite being in NYS. Haven't been able to spend a ton of time with them but quite pleased so far. Definitely an upgrade over the ZST and a bargain at roughly $30. Comfort seems fine.



What's NYS?

And what dealer did you buy from to get the nicer packaging?


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## Spelaeus (Jun 5, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> What's NYS?
> 
> And what dealer did you buy from to get the nicer packaging?



New York State. You end up feeling like you need to specify when most people assume the city is the whole state... And these are the ones I purchased: https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/328...21&shortkey=UjumeIr2&addresstype=600#autostay

I think it's the same store that was first linked over in the Chinese IEM thread. Don't know if I got the Chinese domestic packaging because it was an  early pre-order or if that's all that seller is still sending out, though. Could probably message them.


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## ezekiel77

My ZS5 just arrived. Out of the box impressions are inaccurate (bleh) but it's impressive all right. First thing that struck me was the imaging. Nicely separated and good spacial cues. Good air between instruments. The tuning is not bad as well. Bass has nice impact, just a bit bloaty but no bleed. I hear a few hard edges in the centre and upper mids, but otherwise the mids are fine. Treble is not splashy nor subdued, keeps up with the rest of the spectrum. I'm using medium stock tips with KZ silver cable, straight out of my cellphone (Xiaomi Mi5), playing some mainstream pop/rock in 320kbps MP3s. A bargain for less than $30! Will be cooking it in the burner to see if sound improves.


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## Comebackboy (Jun 6, 2017)

Pronounta said:


> Can anyone of the ZS5-owners tell me how it compares to other KZ-in-ears? I would like to buy them but I don't know if it is worth the increased price compared to the ED9 or the ZST which I would buy otherwise.



I have had the ZST (sold it) and I have the ZS3 and ZS5 currently. I would say that the ZS5 is a pretty big step up from the ZS3 and for that little bit more money, I think it's worth it. Imo I liked the ZST the least of out the 3 KZs I've owned because it sounded abit muddy and the bass was abit too strong for me. The ZS3 was better as I felt the sound was more controlled and it was more comfortable than the ZST. But the ZS5 blew me away. It was much better than what I had expected for that price. It's fairly balanced with impactful bass and nice treble. Vocals on the ZS5 are clear and pronounced. Separation and clarity is also better.

I mean I'm quite new to this iem stuff but I would say that the ZS5 is definitely worth the money. I haven't tried the ED9 so I can't advise you on that unfortunately. Though I would say if you're considering the ZS5, just go for it. It'll be well worth the money as long as you don't get a faulty pair. However, if I had to pick a fault with the ZS5, it would be the comfort. I haven't had issues because I'm not using the stock cable but looking at it's shape and other people's comments, it is probably something you should take into consideration.

However, if you're really not comfortable spending more to get the ZS5(it really doesn't cost that much more though and it is well worth for the 2-3 more drivers and the much improved quality), I would personally recommend the ZS3 over the ZST. Opinion on which of these 2 are better seems quite split so I think it's rather subjective but this is my two cents.


----------



## benchan2

I am surprised by the fact that ZS5 is so popular on English Forum, which is not the case in Chinese forum.....Has anyone posted the disassemble report of the ZS5 here?


----------



## vegetaleb

ezekiel77 said:


> My ZS5 just arrived. Out of the box impressions are inaccurate (bleh) but it's impressive all right. First thing that struck me was the imaging. Nicely separated and good spacial cues. Good air between instruments. The tuning is not bad as well. Bass has nice impact, just a bit bloaty but no bleed. I hear a few hard edges in the centre and upper mids, but otherwise the mids are fine. Treble is not splashy nor subdued, keeps up with the rest of the spectrum. I'm using medium stock tips with KZ silver cable, straight out of my cellphone (Xiaomi Mi5), playing some mainstream pop/rock in 320kbps MP3s. A bargain for less than $30! Will be cooking it in the burner to see if sound improves.



So very close to ZS3!
I was expecting at last an iem from KZ with less bass but more mids and less harsh treble


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## Vidal

vegetaleb said:


> So very close to ZS3!
> I was expecting at last an iem from KZ with less bass but more mids and less harsh treble



The ZS5 is more 'like' the ZST (than ZS3) but with better imaging and soundstage. Nothing like the ZS3 at all really.


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## vegetaleb

Vidal said:


> The ZS5 is more 'like' the ZST (than ZS3) but with better imaging and soundstage. Nothing like the ZS3 at all really.



It looks like KZ is in need of a new tech team then, they definitely need to propose new iems profiles.
I will run the ZS3 till they come up with a real new offer.
With my small mod on ZS3 (replacing the red filter by a clear one) I successfully reduced the bloody bass, the sound is now epic with a great soundstage and separations but the treble is bit annoying in some songs


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## Cya|\| (Jun 6, 2017)

ezekiel77 said:


> My ZS5 just arrived. Out of the box impressions are inaccurate (bleh) but it's impressive all right. First thing that struck me was the imaging. Nicely separated and good spacial cues. Good air between instruments. The tuning is not bad as well. Bass has nice impact, just a bit bloaty but no bleed. I hear a few hard edges in the centre and upper mids, but otherwise the mids are fine. Treble is not splashy nor subdued, keeps up with the rest of the spectrum. I'm using medium stock tips with KZ silver cable, straight out of my cellphone (Xiaomi Mi5), playing some mainstream pop/rock in 320kbps MP3s. A bargain for less than $30! Will be cooking it in the burner to see if sound improves.



When you finish burning them in, please make an outrages comparison with the higher end models you have 

Edit: @Vidal , just saw you updated your review with a mind blowing 9.7


----------



## eaglesgift

Having listened to some heavier rock music with the ZS5s,they are brighter than I originally thought and definitely lacking in bass compared to the Pro HDs with port mod (using Cayin N3).


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## Vidal

Cya|\| said:


> Edit: @Vidal , just saw you updated your review with a mind blowing 9.7



Just means they're better than most other budget earphones I've heard, they tick all my 'boxes' - they're balanced, good soundstage and imaging, not to mention the price. The reality is others may find them too bright or that there's not enough bass but that's down to personal taste.

Not sure what I'll do when I come across another earphone that improves on the ZS5 hence the Spinal Tap reference


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## Oscar-HiFi

Anyone who thinks they are bright, try Comply tips. I find them a little too bassy.


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## VinceHill24

eaglesgift said:


> Having listened to some heavier rock music with the ZS5s,they are brighter than I originally thought and definitely lacking in bass compared to the Pro HDs with port mod (using Cayin N3).


 Why not do a ZS5 port mod too ? Seems like a good idea isn't it ? I've tried and the bass quantities surged to near ZS3 level imo so i was hoping someone can try it out too haha


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## ezekiel77

vegetaleb said:


> So very close to ZS3!
> I was expecting at last an iem from KZ with less bass but more mids and less harsh treble



Oh, not really. ZS3 has more bass bloat and some bleed to the mids to my ears. The mids are also slightly recessed and muffled, while treble lacks a bit of sparkle and air. ZST is a breath of fresh air compared the ZS3, and ZS5 even more so!


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## Oscar-HiFi

Think I've finally settled on some tips after trying spinfit, Comply etc...

Some cut down Audiofly triple flanges, I cut the rear of the stem so the larger flange sits closer to the housing, and cut the last tip off to make them bi-flange


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## WilliamCruz (Jun 6, 2017)

Got my ZS5 few days back.. sound is warm, resolution of the lower mids is fantastic.

Highs are also very good, a little laid back but extended.

warm sounding overall.

Soundstage isn't that good to be honest, it improved after i attached my lune cable.


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## Cya|\|

Opinions are contrasting regarding the highs/warmth, although I am more inclined to heed Vidal's opinion, since he tries so many iems and can make an informed comparison. In any case Vidal, please let us know if they improve with burn in.

Concerning comply tips, I bought them for my tzar 350, and I found them a little uncomfortable for my ears, as they seal very tightly. Also, they cost too much. How about the foam tips from KZ itself, which you can buy from aliexpress? Are they equally good? Do they improve the seal a lot? I may use them for live situations, when I don't need to use them for very extended time.


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## eaglesgift

VinceHill24 said:


> Why not do a ZS5 port mod too ? Seems like a good idea isn't it ? I've tried and the bass quantities surged to near ZS3 level imo so i was hoping someone can try it out too haha


Fantastic idea - I was thinking the same thing but haven't tried it yet as I fell asleep! Will be joining you in your experiment very soon


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## Vidal

I don't know much about how or whether impedance impacts multidriver earphones or even if this relates to that but the sound signature of the ZS5 is quite different between my Aegis DAC and the headphone port of the iPhone. 

Aegis = Brighter, less bass


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## Spelaeus

benchan2 said:


> I am surprised by the fact that ZS5 is so popular on English Forum, which is not the case in Chinese forum.....Has anyone posted the disassemble report of the ZS5 here?


Details? Now I'm curious what's been going on at the Chinese forum.


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## Sylmar

Vidal said:


> Just means they're better than most other budget earphones I've heard, they tick all my 'boxes' - they're balanced, good soundstage and imaging, not to mention the price. The reality is others may find them too bright or that there's not enough bass but that's down to personal taste.
> 
> Not sure what I'll do when I come across another earphone that improves on the ZS5 hence the Spinal Tap reference



Great review, I pretty much totally agree. And I got the reference.


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## TheWongWrong

Man I sure wish KZ decided to put more money in the housing instead. Like one guy said in a review from youtube, they used metal to hold a few ear tips in the retail box instead of the housing of the headphone (made me giggle a bit haha). Kind of disappointing for me since they were a long(for KZ's standard) time coming and came with a fair bit of hype as well. I know the general consensus is function over form but just really wish they hadn't made a bootleg Andromeda. Might still snap it up sometime down the line because of @Vidal 's stellar impressions though, didn't think they'd top his list before seeing his review.


----------



## Vidal

TheWongWrong said:


> didn't think they'd top his list before seeing his review.



Neither did I, I was ready to mark 'em down but found myself smitten


----------



## Sylmar

Using the big eartips from my broken Hifiman RE400 for my ZS5. Seems to add comfort as I don't feel the sharp ridges anymore plus it seems that they seem to enhance the soundstage by a fraction.







(top left ones)


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## ezekiel77

I'll probably go to hell for this, but...



Spoiler



I prefer ZS5's fit to the original CA Andromeda/Jupiter. CA metal+sharp edges=aahhhh pain, but the ZS5 plastics made the fit bearable.


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## ricemanhk

ezekiel77 said:


> I'll probably go to hell for this, but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL!
BTW for those with fit issues, take out the memory wire and then it's fine.  I did it on day 1, as have quite a few others and all report back the same.

As for copycat design...well they claim to have been working on ZS5 for quite a while, so it might even be the case that the development for ZST started later than ZS5, and then it was too late to change the housing design for ZS5.  Give them time and hopefully they use the ZST style housing more which I prefer.  I think the ZS3 was also a copycat design for the housing?  albeit a less well known IEM.


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## 1clearhead

Sylmar said:


> Using the big eartips from my broken Hifiman RE400 for my ZS5. Seems to add comfort as I don't feel the sharp ridges anymore plus it seems that they seem to enhance the soundstage by a fraction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got that same exact set as well.


----------



## 1clearhead

ezekiel77 said:


> I'll probably go to hell for this, but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually prefer the sound signature over some of those big names, but not the quality per say.


----------



## acia

pure silver mix copper cable, good idea??


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## WilliamCruz (Jun 7, 2017)

So far my experience with zs5 is not as expected, but pretty good for the price tag.

It could really use better layering especially in busier tracks.

The speed is really good, good enough for fast paced instruments, was able to differentiate every note.

Bass can sound a little bloated and excessive.

The quantity of the treble is just right for me plus it's really smooth and clean, kz done a good job here.

PS: I have the lune cable with it, and this is in comparison with the gr07 mk2


----------



## acia

Bought pure silver x copper cable. Hope it is good


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## benchan2 (Jun 7, 2017)

Spelaeus said:


> Details? Now I'm curious what's been going on at the Chinese forum.


So long story short. Some day the cover of another ZS5 falls off. The owner found the wire connecting one of the BA fells off, and there is no audio crossover despite there are 4 units. However the sound is the same.




So instead of putting it back by himself, he decided to disassemble the whole thing. Since the DD is not fixed by glue and other way, it is not that hard.




Taking the BA and DD out, he found there is only 1 real tube at DD that  sound can go out. Other chambers are sealed.








So basically there is only 1 DD and 1 BA (inside the bore) that actually work. The other two drivers are blocked. And since there is no damping for the BA, it is rather soft or treble will be too bright, implying it is not contributing to the sound much either.

All credit goes to 愤怒的X88


----------



## B9Scrambler

Interesting, but I'd want to examine them myself. Doesn't make sense to toss in two extra drivers and not have them contribute at all.


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> I don't believe the ATR has any tuning foam. The only KZs that I've (personally) seen with tuning foam in the nozzle is the ZS3 & the ED9 (shiny gold filter). Perhaps other KZs use it; I just haven't run into it yet. I've never opened up a ATR to see what unique features it has (and if there could be any possible tuning improvements).
> 
> I did however do the open grille mod on the ATE (the older brother to the ATR). I had very good results with that:
> 
> ...


1. ATR has no tuning foam.
2. Nothing really unique inside - same as ATE (just wider nozzle inside diameter and slightly different breathing hole port cover material).
3. Grill-mod to ATR makes much less effect than with ATE but it helps slightly.
4. ATR with "open-back" grill mod is better than stock.








5. I have tried many different tweaks but still loving my ATE FF-mod more than ATR.





6. If ZST didn`t have treble issues (for my ears at least), then it would top my ATE FF-mod in overall SQ but soundstage of FF-mod is something special.
Haven`t tried modding ZST yet. I`ve stopped modding IEMs due to being involved with new production IEM.


----------



## Skullophile

If it's true it explains everything about the mysterious ZS5!  innocent until proven guilty though.


----------



## hanamichi

is there any one who can compere zs5 with havi b3 pro 1 ? pls no1? i want to buy one of them


----------



## benchan2

B9Scrambler said:


> Interesting, but I'd want to examine them myself. Doesn't make sense to toss in two extra drivers and not have them contribute at all.


There were some more similar posts about that. Still you can always see it for yourself.


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## Slater (Jun 7, 2017)

benchan2 said:


> So long story short. Some day the cover of another ZS5 falls off. The owner found the wire connecting one of the BA fells off, and there is no audio crossover despite there are 4 units. However the sound is the same.
> 
> So instead of putting it back by himself, he decided to disassemble the whole thing. Since the DD is not fixed by glue and other way, it is not that hard.
> 
> ...



So it's basically a glorified ZST, and KZ is suckering in people with the "more is better" 4-driver sales pitch? Nice haha

*If* that does turn out to all be true, it would be a very big blow to KZ's reputation.


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## Slater (Jun 7, 2017)

CoiL said:


> 1. ATR has no tuning foam.
> 2. Nothing really unique inside - same as ATE (just wider nozzle inside diameter and slightly different breathing hole port cover material).
> 3. Grill-mod to ATR makes much less effect than with ATE but it helps slightly.
> 4. ATR with "open-back" grill mod is better than stock.
> ...



Thanks a BUNCH CoiL! So that tells me that the biggest issue with the ATE was the port not being large enough, and they addressed this on the ATR (as it has a pretty substantial port). The ZST's is pretty substantial as well.

I still love my open grille mod ATE as well (thanks to you).

I plan on grille modding the ZST one of these days to see if any additional gains can be had, so I'll be sure to post any significant results.


----------



## benchan2 (Jun 7, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> So it's basically a glorified ZST? And KZ is suckering in people with the "more is better" 4-driver sales pitch?
> 
> Nice haha


 
Um, you can put it in this way if you like. However as far as I can tell, KZ does not seem to be a whole headphone company, basically it just find ODM from different companies and publish them. So their products are not necessarily connected.


----------



## Sylmar (Jun 7, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> So it's basically a glorified ZST, and KZ is suckering in people with the "more is better" 4-driver sales pitch? Nice haha
> 
> *If* that does turn out to all be true, it would be a very big blow to KZ's reputation.



It could be and maybe deservedly so. Strangely though I still enjoy them very much. Confusing situation.


----------



## ricemanhk

benchan2 said:


> Um, you can put it in this way if you like. However as far as I can tell, KZ does not seem to be a whole headphone company, basically it just find ODM from different companies and publish them. So their products are not necessarily connected.



I suspect they are the ODM for others...not the reverse.

Anyway 1. They are not going to put in extra drivers just for show, because most people are never going to see the inside of the earbud.  And from the pics, those look like real drivers and BAs, not empty fake ones.  But more importantly 2. ZS5 sounds really good and both the sound signature and freq curve would indicate the use of both DDs, otherwise you don't get such a flat response.  But hey If they can do this with only 1 DD + BA and the other 2 are purely for marketing purposes, then more power to them!


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## Vidal (Jun 7, 2017)

I can see the KZ RD team saying this multi-driver earphone sounds crap, it's better with only 2 drivers.

Marketing say they need 4 drivers or the product won't sell.

So KZ RD come back with 4 driver earphone that sounds as good as the 2 driver model, everyone is happy.

Makes no odds to me if there's one or six drivers, until recently my favourite earphones only had one and not even a proper back cover. It all comes down to what it sounds like.

(Oh, and I very much doubt that the two extra drivers don't contribute somehow)


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> I suspect they are the ODM for others...not the reverse.



I am assuming he is referring to the, um, 'inspired' shell designs (at least on the HDS2, ZS3, ZS5, etc)


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## ricemanhk (Jun 7, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I am assuming he is referring to the, um, 'inspired' shell designs (at least on the HDS2, ZS3, ZS5, etc)



No, ODM means making the product for someone else to slap their logo on it.  Sort of like those Verizon or Tmobile branded phones that were likely made by Huawei or ZTE (big ODMs before they became OEMs).
Ben was saying KZ doesn't make the IEMs but is only the brand owner and uses multiple suppliers for the different IEMs, but I doubt this is happening.

Design copying is another issue altogether of course.


----------



## minhmap859

By this picture, I think the ZS5's inside looks rather faithful to what they advertised.

Well, Idk, but maybe the BA that fell out was was the ultra-treb one that only dog can hear? I don't know Chinese, so if someone can translate what was said below, it would be very appreciated.


----------



## ChickenButcher

I just received my KZ ZS5 blue with mic today.

Unfortunately, I am facing a problem with the new mic cable (the one with volume control) . For the first hour of use, the controls were working fine. However after the first hour, I realized the controls were laggy, unresponsive and it suddenly increased the volume to 100%! Luckily I took off the earphones in time to avoid my ears from exploding! Now the controls are totally dead and not working at all. Anyone experienced this issue? Was I just unlucky and got a faulty cable, or is it a common problem to everyone?

P.S. I am using LG V10.


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2017)

Vidal said:


> I can see the KZ RD team saying this multi-driver earphone sounds crap, it's better with only 2 drivers.
> 
> Marketing say they need 4 drivers or the product won't sell.
> 
> ...



Yeah, well said Vidal. What you are describing happens so much in industry it's not even funny. Companies often grant entirely too much influence to the Sales & Marketing departments, and I've seen this firsthand with the companies I've worked for through the years. They are a necessary evil though.

The original Atari Lynx gaming handheld was developed to be as small and compact as possible, ergonomic to use, and efficient (to compete with the Nintendo Gameboy). I mean, it's a *portable* handheld gaming system after all right? The Engineering and Design team had working prototypes that ticked all of the boxes, and it was ready for manufacture. Know what happened next? The knucklehead Marketing department told them to redesign the external shell to be humongous (an increase of almost 100% in size), full of *totally empty space*, because they said people want "to feel like they are getting their money's worth and so the product has to be big". Needless to say, it was a total flop because it was ridiculously *gigantic and difficult to hold & use due to it's enormous size*. Realizing their bonehead mistake and lots of lost market share, they redesigned it back to the original compact size, and released it as the Lynx II. I'm assuming the Marketing geniuses had to look for new jobs (or at least they would be if that had been my company). Whoops!

I'm just joking around with my comments about KZ. Like you pointed out, the single most important thing is how it sounds. Doesn't matter if it's 1 or 20 drivers.

Personally though, knowing what KZ was capable of accomplishing with the ZS1 rev 1, I think if they had instead used less drivers *but used a proper crossover*, they could easily produce an end-game IEM with the same cost of the ZS5. Perhaps this is what they are planning with the ZSR Pro.


----------



## ricemanhk

minhmap859 said:


> By this picture, I think the ZS5's inside looks rather faithful to what they advertised.
> 
> Well, Idk, but maybe the BA that fell out was was the ultra-treb one that only dog can hear? I don't know Chinese, so if someone can translate what was said below, it would be very appreciated.



Top left, Bass DD
Bottom left, High freq BA
Right, sub-bass DD
Middle, mid-high BA

It's strange the smaller DD is labeled as the sub-bass one?


----------



## ricemanhk

ChickenButcher said:


> I just received my KZ ZS5 blue with mic today.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am facing a problem with the new mic cable (the one with volume control) . For the first hour of use, the controls were working fine. However after the first hour, I realized the controls were laggy, unresponsive and it suddenly increased the volume to 100%! Luckily I took off the earphones in time to avoid my ears from exploding! Now the controls are totally dead and not working at all. Anyone experienced this issue? Was I just unlucky and got a faulty cable, or is it a common problem to everyone?
> 
> P.S. I am using LG V10.



Sounds like a short inside the control.  Could be moisture as well, dry it out and give it another try tomorrow, if still doesn't work then exchange it.


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> Interesting, but I'd want to examine them myself. Doesn't make sense to toss in two extra drivers and not have them contribute at all.


Yeah, I want to disassemble ZS5 too... I think that guy missed something. I don`t belive KZ does such "cheating".


----------



## CoiL (Jun 7, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Thanks a BUNCH CoiL! So that tells me that the biggest issue with the ATE was the port not being large enough, and they addressed this on the ATR (as it has a pretty substantial port). The ZST's is pretty substantial as well.
> 
> I still love my open grille mod ATE as well (thanks to you).
> 
> I plan on grille modding the ZST one of these days to see if any additional gains can be had, so I'll be sure to post any significant results.



1. Do nozzle mod too for Your ATE (with ED9 brass nozzles) and You`ll love them even more 

2. ZST with grill mod could be different story than ATE/ATR improvement and I suspect it will be actually worse. Most improvement regarding ZST highs could come from moving BA further inside shell and using proper damper for BA. But tuning the mids better is very hard thing to do.
Better dynamic natural mids and huge airy soundstage are the things that I like more with ATE than ZST.


----------



## bartzky (Jun 7, 2017)

@benchan2 thanks for sharing.



benchan2 said:


>


The thing top right between the red and green wires at the tip of the tool actually looks like a capacitor in parallel. So this would suggest a first order low pass at least.


----------



## benchan2

I am quite sure KZ is the one finding ODM, not the other way. I mean they changed the housing of ZS5 from ZS3 and ZST with no benefit ....Anyway I am not gonna go further into it.

And Yes, all 4 drivers work!!! It is not like they put dummy drivers like other cheap earphones out there. Just that they are kinda really get blocked and has no effect to the sound (which is kinda good, because without a audio crossover, iimagaine mess for all 4 drivers to work on all frequency)

Regarding the point the DD not being fixed (the one working), it is not exactly the case for everyone as I saw someone saying theirs had glue in it, quite a lot.

For those who want to disassemble it, I would suggest you to enjoy it bit longer before doing so. Panel falling off is not a rare case at least when it first came out. Maybe it is better now but if most likely you still have to destroy it to fully disassemble it.


----------



## ricemanhk

benchan2 said:


> I am quite sure KZ is the one finding ODM, not the other way. I mean they changed the housing of ZS5 from ZS3 and ZST with no benefit ....Anyway I am not gonna go further into it.
> 
> And Yes, all 4 drivers work!!! It is not like they put dummy drivers like other cheap earphones out there. Just that they are kinda really get blocked and has no effect to the sound (which is kinda good, because without a audio crossover, iimagaine mess for all 4 drivers to work on all frequency)
> 
> ...



Most companies do try and make different housings styles.  ZS3 housing style was used to allow for the long bass tube to bring out lots of bass, which it did.  ZST was a nice housing imo, and indeed ZS5 seems to be a step back (both comfort wise and copy-cat design wise).  

Meanwhile just because the drivers aren't facing directly towards the nozzle into your ears doesn't mean the sound doesn't get to your ears.

Anyway as everyone has said, doesn't matter what's in the IEM, what matters is what comes OUT of it, and to me and many others here, that sound is quite lovely.


----------



## Vidal (Jun 7, 2017)

Looking at that picture there's no way of knowing what's going on in terms of tubes, ports or vents, just looks like a gluey mess. Maybe an electronic crossover isn't needed as it's tuned physically small vents etc. Incidentally, I've just tried to coax the shells apart on my pair and they're not budging at all, tighter than a duck arse.

No offence intended to you Ben, but who is to say that the person posting that on the Chinese forum is genuine? Given of what I've heard about Chinese company ethics (banned seller as an example) it could easily be a competitor trying to bad mouth a new release.

I'm keeping an open mind (and ear) till someone like Coil pulls one apart and finds an issue,


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> No, ODM means making the product for someone else to slap their logo on it.  Sort of like those Verizon or Tmobile branded phones that were likely made by Huawei or ZTE (big ODMs before they became OEMs).
> Ben was saying KZ doesn't make the IEMs but is only the brand owner and uses multiple suppliers for the different IEMs, but I doubt this is happening.
> 
> Design copying is another issue altogether of course.



Ah, got it. I have always known that as "private labeling". At least that's what we used to call it in the manufacturing biz.


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2017)

Vidal said:


> Looking at that picture there's no way of knowing what's going on in terms of tubes, ports or vents, just looks like a gluey mess.



There are industrial epoxy/glue dissolvers available that could dissolve away all of the glue.

If the glue could be removed cleanly, without damaging the plastic shell, we could see what the bare shell really looks like and then properly evaluate its design.

And as you hinted at, there's likely small ports (tubes/tunnels) cast into the shell to tune certain frequencies and/or direct the output of specific drivers. Although none of that careful design and engineering matters if they simply flooded everything with glue, effectively sealing everything up. 

If that is the case, it would just prove that even the best design and engineering intentions can be ruined without careful manufacturing controls in place.

When I used to manufacture products, I closely controlled everything from the concept, design, and testing to the manufacturing, finishing, and sales. Too many cooks in the kitchen can really muck things up.


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2017)

CoiL said:


> 1. Do nozzle mod too for Your ATE (with ED9 brass nozzles) and You`ll love them even more



That's genius! I never even thought of that! I have a bunch of spare nozzles, with no plans to use them.



CoiL said:


> 2. ZST with grill mod could be different story than ATE/ATR improvement and I suspect it will be actually worse. Most improvement regarding ZST highs could come from moving BA further inside shell and using proper damper for BA. But tuning the mids better is very hard thing to do.
> Better dynamic natural mids and huge airy soundstage are the things that I like more with ATE than ZST.



OK, good to know. I agree that the ZST BA definitely benefits from dampener tuning. I did some crude dampening using tuning foam in the BA nozzles, and I had very positive results. Obviously proper BA dampeners would be even better.

I wish all of these cheap hybrids used proper dampeners on the BAs. It would only add a few dollars to the cost, but would greatly benefit from the gain in tune-ability. Most just stick in BAs and whatever comes out the other end is 'good enough'. Like the people that paint their car using cans of spray paint.


----------



## B9Scrambler

For those of you having issues with memory wire on the ZS5, trying shaping it something like this;

 

Brainwavz was onto something with the shape of their earguides on the B100/B150.


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2017)

bartzky said:


> @benchan2 thanks for sharing.
> 
> The thing top right between the red and green wires at the tip of the tool actually looks like a capacitor in parallel. So this would suggest a first order low pass at least.



That is the solder pad, which lifted clean off of the BA driver:


----------



## benchan2

Very true, ZS5 gives an interesting sound. There is not much to complain especially when you consider its price and the accessories they come with.
And ODM does not necessary mean the product is inferior to the others in terms of quality. In fact it is quite common even for some bigger brands. So it is not something to complain or worry about.
I don't think it is fair for some to say it is "cheating" or "bad mouth from other companies". So, it may not be the best built iem around, but generally it works. And It is not like they put some metal pieces to pretend to be BA. They do pack 4 drivers just some are placed weirdly. I mean, just don't set your bar too high.
Lastly for those who have doubt, the best way to find out is always to disassemble it and see it yourself.


----------



## danspy

The mid BA housing just wood need a tiny Pinhole to contribute, and the sub-bass DD does not even to be open to the port to contribute.


----------



## Vidal

benchan2 said:


> I don't think it is fair for some to say it is "cheating" or "bad mouth from other companies".



How is it different from posting fake positive reviews on Amazon like 100s of importers and companies do? Business ethics are pretty shocking.

For those who are interested after giving the ZS5 my top score so far I've listened to nothing else since, not because I'm enjoying them, which I am. I wanted to be sure that I hadn't given them too much credit, so far I've heard nothing to change my mind. I'm actually going back through old songs to hear how they perform. I know @loomisjohnson wanted to know whether they stood up to extended listening, so far they do.


----------



## ricemanhk

danspy said:


> The mid BA housing just wood need a tiny Pinhole to contribute, and the sub-bass DD does not even to be open to the port to contribute.



Technical question: Is it possible/feasible to have the sub-bass DD to be smaller in diameter than the bass DD? I would have thought larger diameters are better to generate the lower freqs, but I'm not an expert in earbud and driver design.


----------



## ricemanhk

Vidal said:


> For those who are interested after giving the ZS5 my top score so far I've listened to nothing else since, not because I'm enjoying them, which I am. I wanted to be sure that I hadn't given them too much credit, so far I've heard nothing to change my mind. I'm actually going back through old songs to hear how they perform. I know @loomisjohnson wanted to know whether they stood up to extended listening, so far they do.



Fully agree, I'm so glad I got them early and enjoying the heck out of them 
But to your last comment in your review...wonder what would happen if the ZSR pro really does come out and really does beat the ZS5?   then again you still have 0.3 points leeway lol


----------



## Vidal

ricemanhk said:


> Fully agree, I'm so glad I got them early and enjoying the heck out of them
> But to your last comment in your review...wonder what would happen if the ZSR pro really does come out and really does beat the ZS5?   then again you still have 0.3 points leeway lol



I think the ZSR Pro is the Loch Ness Monster of the Chinese audio world, only parts photographed and never seen in the flesh. I hope I'm wrong but depending on it's price I might not even review it. The rating scores were always comparisons from one to the next, I've got options either move everything down or create so headroom with going to 11.

I wanted to emphasise that there was a gap between the likes of the G3 and ZS5 hence the slight jump. The G3 had the imaging and soundstage but lacks some of low end of the ZS5. One thing I might introduce is price categories based on purchase price and adding the date of review so people know how long it's been since it was reviewed. The IEM market moves so fast, I'm planning to re-review every 12 months or so older earphones that have fallen behind are dropped down the table.


----------



## danspy (Jun 8, 2017)

ricemanhk said:


> Technical question: Is it possible/feasible to have the sub-bass DD to be smaller in diameter than the bass DD? I would have thought larger diameters are better to generate the lower freqs, but I'm not an expert in earbud and driver design.



The size of Driver responds mostly to SPL (Volume of sound) a small Driver needs less Air volume to produse low frequencies.


----------



## acia

ChickenButcher said:


> I just received my KZ ZS5 blue with mic today.
> 
> Unfortunately, I am facing a problem with the new mic cable (the one with volume control) . For the first hour of use, the controls were working fine. However after the first hour, I realized the controls were laggy, unresponsive and it suddenly increased the volume to 100%! Luckily I took off the earphones in time to avoid my ears from exploding! Now the controls are totally dead and not working at all. Anyone experienced this issue? Was I just unlucky and got a faulty cable, or is it a common problem to everyone?
> 
> P.S. I am using LG V10.


Me. Doa


----------



## Pronounta

How legit are these two offers?

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...t-Headphone/32810984494.html?isOrigTitle=true

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...nes-Headset/32810662132.html?isOrigTitle=true

One of the sellers has no ratings, but one of them has 93% positive ratings, which isn't necessarily high either... there are some other English sellers though that sell ZS5's for around $8 with above 99% ratings which is way lower than the price that anyone else wants. Doesn't seem too legit to me anyway though, the price is just so low...


----------



## Sylmar

Pronounta said:


> How legit are these two offers?
> 
> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...t-Headphone/32810984494.html?isOrigTitle=true
> 
> ...



I think the $8 is for the cable only, not the ZS5 IEM.


----------



## Vidal

The low prices are just for the cable, select the item you want and the price jumps up to the full market price


----------



## loomisjohnson

Vidal said:


> I think the ZSR Pro is the Loch Ness Monster of the Chinese audio world, only parts photographed and never seen in the flesh. I hope I'm wrong but depending on it's price I might not even review it. The rating scores were always comparisons from one to the next, I've got options either move everything down or create so headroom with going to 11.
> 
> I wanted to emphasise that there was a gap between the likes of the G3 and ZS5 hence the slight jump. The G3 had the imaging and soundstage but lacks some of low end of the ZS5. One thing I might introduce is price categories based on purchase price and adding the date of review so people know how long it's been since it was reviewed. The IEM market moves so fast, I'm planning to re-review every 12 months or so older earphones that have fallen behind are dropped down the table.



i've discussed this with vidal previously, but i think his numerical ratings need to be understood as relative to the then-existing universe of budget (<$50) chifi iems, which is to say that (a) the zs5 may well be a 9.7 in comparison to the others on his site, but would not fairly be a 9.7 compared to a multi$$$ ciem, and (b) the numerical ratings should be adjusted (typically downwards) as newer and better models hit the market. in this regards, i'm still surprised at how models from a years ago which were credibly rated 9+ by joker and others have been outclassed by the significantly cheaper pieces touted on these pages.


----------



## benchan2

Vidal said:


> How is it different from posting fake positive reviews on Amazon like 100s of importers and companies do? Business ethics are pretty shocking.
> 
> For those who are interested after giving the ZS5 my top score so far I've listened to nothing else since, not because I'm enjoying them, which I am. I wanted to be sure that I hadn't given them too much credit, so far I've heard nothing to change my mind. I'm actually going back through old songs to hear how they perform. I know @loomisjohnson wanted to know whether they stood up to extended listening, so far they do.



 I am not sure, are you trying to say KZ is doing false advertising? Because fake positive reviews, well, are fake. But KZ did pack the things they advertised in ZS5, just not in the way you think it would be. Also it is not that uncommon to have fake positive reviews on Taobao or some other places.


----------



## ashliejay

Has anyone noticed that KZ has a 1st party bluetooth cable for the ZSTs?
as soon as some sellers get one not bundled with the ZSTs, i might have to see how it sounds next to the TF10 cable i bought a few months back.


----------



## Vidal

benchan2 said:


> I am not sure, are you trying to say KZ is doing false advertising?



No, I'm saying a lot of companies are crooks and who is to say that post on the Chinese forum isn't someone badmouthing KZ. Why the hell would KZ put drivers in if they don't work, but not important.


----------



## Vidal (Jun 8, 2017)

loomisjohnson said:


> i've discussed this with vidal previously, but i think his numerical ratings need to be understood as relative to the then-existing universe of budget (<$50) chifi iems, which is to say that (a) the zs5 may well be a 9.7 in comparison to the others on his site, but would not fairly be a 9.7 compared to a multi$$$ ciem, and (b) the numerical ratings should be adjusted (typically downwards) as newer and better models hit the market. in this regards, i'm still surprised at how models from a years ago which were credibly rated 9+ by joker and others have been outclassed by the significantly cheaper pieces touted on these pages.



I returned to my VSonic VC1000 and was stunned how things have progressed, it sounded v.average, this was a top performer on Joker's list. This is why all my earphone reviews with either be re-reviewed or mark as out-of-date after 12 months (maybe 6 months).


----------



## Sylmar (Jun 8, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> I got that same exact set as well.



Hope you like them! I really love these eartips. Really help bringing out the sound. Luckily I could buy a few pairs seperately from Hifiman directly without having to buy the entire sets.


----------



## loomisjohnson

likewise, i have some pieces from a couple years ago in the $100+ range like the yamaha eph100, senn momentum and jvc fxt90 which are no longer competitive with the dirt cheap urbanfun, einsear, magaosi and their ilk--this field is evolving much, much quicker than say, mobile or two channel audio.


----------



## Skullophile

Joker has updated scores and it's at the top of the thread where it says 
A more up-to-date, interactive, sortable version of this thread can now be found here.

He scores the VC1000 9.2/10 and he spends weeks with each iem he reviews in rotation. To some extent a reviewer has to leave out his/her preferences out of it so the reader can get an idea of it's sound signature and it's performance against other similar signatures. 
So if you were to listen to an iem, let's say the ZS5 for a few days straight then switch to a dual twfk you'll want to put the twfk under the hammer. The strength of a twfk imho is the treble. You have to spend big bucks to get treble that performs better (in general). Hmmm, Altone 200, T-peos H300, CK100, VE Duke spring to mind, The first two will be a little too hot for most.
I havn't heard a cheapish chi-fi iem come close in the treble to these or the dual twfk's i've tried. Even my Gleam 8BA (DZ8) sounds a little rolled off next to these but it comes close.

@Vidal this is not an attack, this is just some thoughts and I hope a few find it interesting.

I thank you for your hard work in reviewing and it reminds me that the H-fi community came together and threw in $5-10 dollars each to buy Joker a TOTL.
He ended up getting the UM Miracle custom from memory. And we should band together and do this for you, so you can have a reference point for your scoring system. Where the totl will hopefully be the 10 and the rest can be adjusted against that.


----------



## Vidal

@Skullophile don't worry I didn't take that as a dig. 

Because the ChiFi stuff isn't a big investment my reviews are meant only as a steer to what's good and what's poor without getting overly analytical, that's why they are brief and concise. There are so many out there it's hard to keep pace with new models especially, if I'm spending a week with them. 

My reference point has until recently been the Ty Hi Z G3 but I will now have to decide whether to swap to the ZS5.

With regard to the VC1000, it was Joker's list that got me into this ChiFi game and I'd previously bought the JVC FXD80 following his recommendation. I used to prefer the VC1000 to the FXD80 but that's now swapped around which could reflect a change in my preferences as I've heard new earphones.


----------



## Terran Earthson (Jun 9, 2017)

Damn ZST, after approx a month of use, cable near of it's plastic connector started to rupture, new cable on ali worth 8$, which is pretty expensive considering that i bought ZST on gearbest for 10$. Is new cable worth buying, and if so which one? or should i just acquire new pair of ZST's again?


----------



## jeromeaparis

Terran Earthson said:


> Damn ZST, after approx a month of use, cable near of it's plastic connector started to rupture, new cable on ali worth 8$, which is pretty expensive considering that i bought ZST on gearbest for 10$. Is new cable worth buying, and if so which one? or should i just acquire new pair of ZST's again?


On ebay, you will get the ZST silver cable for 5$


----------



## loomisjohnson

Skullophile said:


> Joker has updated scores and it's at the top of the thread where it says
> A more up-to-date, interactive, sortable version of this thread can now be found here.
> 
> He scores the VC1000 9.2/10 and he spends weeks with each iem he reviews in rotation. To some extent a reviewer has to leave out his/her preferences out of it so the reader can get an idea of it's sound signature and it's performance against other similar signatures.
> ...


it would be very interesting if joker, whose credibility is beyond reproach, would evaluate the "cheapish chifi iems" and rate them relative to his others (and correspondingly for vidal to rate some of joker's more mainstream iems relative to his others). as i've stated, i personally find that the newer, cheaper  chifi stuff generally outhit the more mainstream, pricier ($100-200) stuff of a few years ago, tho i don't pretend to be an expert.


----------



## vad0s

Hi, I am looking for new pair of earphones. I prefer V-shaped bassier sound. I had zircons before I lost  them and I reálný like their sound. Could you please suggest me some? I was thinking about getting ZS3. Is it a solid choice or is there any better option? Thanks for your help


----------



## SpiderNhan

GearBest has got the ZS5 on presale. First 100 pieces are $26 with coupon code "KZZS5"

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/gearbests-headphones-thread.832367/page-11#post-13536681


----------



## Vidal

vad0s said:


> Hi, I am looking for new pair of earphones. I prefer V-shaped bassier sound. I had zircons before I lost  them and I reálný like their sound. Could you please suggest me some? I was thinking about getting ZS3. Is it a solid choice or is there any better option? Thanks for your help



Boarseman KR49i would be my choice working on a similar budget


----------



## B9Scrambler

I think they're good looking earphones. Terrible isolation though. Vents are hidden absolutely everywhere around the seam where the two pieces of the main housing connect.

 
 ​


----------



## Skullophile

Those vents let you hear the other two drivers. lol

Seriously I can't wait until you crack them open to prove if it's true or not.
Take one for the team and dismantle them bro.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I've got a second pair incoming. Once I confirm the blue and grey models sound the same, which at some point will undoubtedly come into question because color changes signature , I'll probably snoop around a bit. Unless of course I really like them too much to destroy a perfectly fine pair...


----------



## Cya|\|

B9Scrambler said:


> I think they're good looking earphones. Terrible isolation though. Vents are hidden absolutely everywhere around the seam where the two pieces of the main housing connect.



Thx. This convinces me even more to wait for the zs pro. I was wondering why no one was talking about isolation...now maybe it's clear why.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Cya|\| said:


> Thx. This convinces me even more to wait for the zs pro. I was wondering why no one was talking about isolation...now maybe it's clear why.



I was pretty surprised at just how poorly they isolated. Tried a number of different silicone tips which made next to no difference. Haven't tried foams yet. Well below average isolation levels for sure though. Regardless, I don't really care all that much. How they sound is what's important and so far I'm pretty (read: very) content. Not hearing the large sound stage others have noted though.


----------



## ricemanhk

B9Scrambler said:


> I was pretty surprised at just how poorly they isolated. Tried a number of different silicone tips which made next to no difference. Haven't tried foams yet. Well below average isolation levels for sure though. Regardless, I don't really care all that much. How they sound is what's important and so far I'm pretty (read: very) content. Not hearing the large sound stage others have noted though.



Strange, I don't have any isolation problems when the earbuds are seated well, I think they are on par with ZST (which also had vents) and most of my other IEMs.  ZS3 was a bit more isolated than these 2, but then soundstage was almost non-existent.  My triplefi 10s still isolate the best, but that has no vents (to my knowledge) and again quite limited soundstage.

I think nobody else talked about isolation because it wasn't a problem for them?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ricemanhk said:


> Strange, I don't have any isolation problems when the earbuds are seated well, I think they are on par with ZST (which also had vents) and most of my other IEMs.  ZS3 was a bit more isolated than these 2, but then soundstage was almost non-existent.  My triplefi 10s still isolate the best, but that has no vents (to my knowledge) and again quite limited soundstage.
> 
> I think nobody else talked about isolation because it wasn't a problem for them?



Was just an observation.


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> Strange, I don't have any isolation problems when the earbuds are seated well, I think they are on par with ZST (which also had vents) and most of my other IEMs.  ZS3 was a bit more isolated than these 2, but then soundstage was almost non-existent.  My triplefi 10s still isolate the best, but that has no vents (to my knowledge) and again quite limited soundstage.
> 
> I think nobody else talked about isolation because it wasn't a problem for them?


I like you didn't face any isolation problem largely because it fits well after i've modded out the memory wire. I did the mod few days after and to me personally the difference is day & night in terms of comfort, fit & isolation. One problem with the vent hole facing ear is that everyone's not gonna hear it the same depending on our internal ear structure and how much of it is being covered, that pretty much explains why there's some inconsistencies in our impressions.


----------



## kokakolia

loomisjohnson said:


> it would be very interesting if joker, whose credibility is beyond reproach, would evaluate the "cheapish chifi iems" and rate them relative to his others (and correspondingly for vidal to rate some of joker's more mainstream iems relative to his others). as i've stated, i personally find that the newer, cheaper  chifi stuff generally outhit the more mainstream, pricier ($100-200) stuff of a few years ago, tho i don't pretend to be an expert.



Well, there's more to that story. Earphones that used to cost $100 several years ago are now under $50. The Marshall Mode is a great example. This earphone was definitely overpriced at $100 and is now a steal for $40. This is my "Goldilocks" pair and I wouldn't see myself buying anything else. Unfortunately, most reviews online are mixed because they took into consideration the $100 price tag. They don't sound like $100. 

And now you have Chinese IEMs going "premium" and selling for $30. The value proposition isn't so amazing anymore. 

And this is hard to realize when you don't have a mega IEM shootout with updated prices.


----------



## acia

B9Scrambler said:


> I've got a second pair incoming. Once I confirm the blue and grey models sound the same, which at some point will undoubtedly come into question because color changes signature , I'll probably snoop around a bit. Unless of course I really like them too much to destroy a perfectly fine pair...


i have both.  sounds the same to me.


----------



## ricemanhk

The KZ bluetooth module and wire for ZST mentioned earlier, read through the taobao reports, seems battery life is disappointing.  Some say 1hr and it's dead...
Although for 55 RMB I might give it a shot the next time I get stuff...would be awesome to use in the gym!


----------



## ashliejay

ricemanhk said:


> The KZ bluetooth module and wire for ZST mentioned earlier, read through the taobao reports, seems battery life is disappointing.  Some say 1hr and it's dead...
> Although for 55 RMB I might give it a shot the next time I get stuff...would be awesome to use in the gym!




that's pretty disappointing, if it was like 2 hours it wouldn't be too bad, but also it's worth opening up if you could fit a larger capacity battery in, as single cell Li-Pos are pretty cheap, still going to give it a go when i can find one.


----------



## geoemm

For me the silver cable tamed the siblance, improved soundstage, separation,increased volume of zs5. Need to burn the iem before I can be sure.


----------



## blazinblazin

I felt the silver cable bring foward the mids.


----------



## ricemanhk

ashliejay said:


> that's pretty disappointing, if it was like 2 hours it wouldn't be too bad, but also it's worth opening up if you could fit a larger capacity battery in, as single cell Li-Pos are pretty cheap, still going to give it a go when i can find one.



Just realised that the problem with these BT add-on cables is that the battery and electronics all need to be in the mic control module.  Dedicated BT earbuds can put batteries into the earbud itself, which significantly extends the battery life...my JBL reflect minis can go for like 8-10 hours...oh well.


----------



## TheWongWrong (Jun 11, 2017)

geoemm said:


> For me the silver cable tamed the siblance, improved soundstage, separation,increased volume of zs5. Need to burn the iem before I can be sure.


Lmao I sure hope it does. 8$ for a magic cable. I respect your beliefs and if you think that wires change something that significantly maybe it's just something wrong with me. Have one arriving in about a week for my ZST, will report on validity of wizardry in the form of 8$ or just snake oil. If you enjoy them that much then good on you I suppose haha. 

Edit: btw no hate to my fellow Head-Fier. Hope you don't take it as an insult or whatever, would like to keep the thread friendly.


----------



## bhazard

TheWongWrong said:


> Lmao I sure hope it does. 8$ for a magic cable. I respect your beliefs and if you think that wires change something that significantly maybe it's just something wrong with me. Have one arriving in about a week for my ZST, will report on validity of wizardry in the form of 8$ or just snake oil. If you enjoy them that much then good on you I suppose haha.
> 
> Edit: btw no hate to my fellow Head-Fier. Hope you don't take it as an insult or whatever, would like to keep the thread friendly.



Sometimes there can be a large difference in impedance between cables that can change sound signature (and volume level). It is similar in how you can use a 75ohm headphone adapter to change the Etymotic ER4P into the ER4S.

I need to find mine. I have a theory that it could work well on the ZS5.


----------



## bhazard

I received the ZS5 and silver cable yesterday. Early impressions are good, but if you are expecting a $100+ giant killer, this is not it.

I need to let it burn in a bit to see if there are any changes, but detail could be better, bass/mids bleed at points, and there is some artificial sounding separation between L/R channels.


----------



## TheWongWrong

bhazard said:


> Sometimes there can be a large difference in impedance between cables that can change sound signature (and volume level). It is similar in how you can use a 75ohm headphone adapter to change the Etymotic ER4P into the ER4S.
> 
> I need to find mine. I have a theory that it could work well on the ZS5.


Yeah in theory it can definitely change volume, but sound signature? Explain?


----------



## B9Scrambler

TheWongWrong said:


> Yeah in theory it can definitely change volume, but sound signature? Explain?



Please don't and keep what always turns into an argument in the Sound Science section. Just a thought.


----------



## TheWongWrong

B9Scrambler said:


> Please don't and keep what always turns into an argument in the Sound Science section. Just a thought.


Yeah I wouldn't argue over something somewhat trivial like that but I suppose others may come bombarding as if shouting blasphemy in the middle ages


----------



## B9Scrambler

TheWongWrong said:


> Yeah I wouldn't argue over something somewhat trivial like that but I suppose others may come* bombarding as if shouting blasphemy in the middle ages*



You have no idea, haha. Mods are constantly coming in and cleaning up burn-in and cable debates. Oh well


----------



## geoemm

TheWongWrong said:


> Lmao I sure hope it does. 8$ for a magic cable. I respect your beliefs and if you think that wires change something that significantly maybe it's just something wrong with me. Have one arriving in about a week for my ZST, will report on validity of wizardry in the form of 8$ or just snake oil. If you enjoy them that much then good on you I suppose haha.
> 
> Edit: btw no hate to my fellow Head-Fier. Hope you don't take it as an insult or whatever, would like to keep the thread friendly.



i thought the same. Logically, this doesn't make much sense. but for me, it sounded different. probably because i used the default cable 1st, then used the silver cable (between that the headphone burned in a bit- but that's another topic)


----------



## peskypesky

for me, the silver cable gave a tighter bass and more clear highs, but only on music tracks that are between 3:13 and 7:45. If the songs were shorter, then i didn't notice the tighter bass, unless the track title started with the letters D, N, S or W.


----------



## zozito (Jun 11, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> for me, the silver cable gave a tighter bass and more clear highs, but only on music tracks that are between 3:13 and 7:45. If the songs were shorter, then i didn't notice the tighter bass, unless the track title started with the letters D, N, S or W.


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2017)

I wanted to let everyone know that my KZ-made silver plated upgrade cables on both my ZS3 and ZST are starting to turn green.

The ZS3 cable is about 6 months old, and the ZST one about 4 months old. The older one is definitely greener than the younger one though.

I don't use it while working out either, so it's not being affected by sweat or moisture. They stay sealed in KZ plastic hard boxes whenever I'm not listening to them, stored indoors.

The cable insulation feels like PVC, which would explain the air getting in causing the oxidation.

Just thought I'd let you know, since these are the same optional silver-plated cables sold with the ZS5. So don't be alarmed if yours start discolor after around 3 months old.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 11, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I wanted to let everyone know that my KZ-made silver plated upgrade cables on both my ZS3 and ZST are starting to turn green.
> 
> The ZS3 cable is about 6 months old, and the ZST one about 4 months old. The older one is definitely greener than the younger one though.
> 
> ...


The same thing happened to my Shure se215 silver/transparent cables, every copper part in the cable turned dark green, especially where you have memory wire. It doesn't change sound at all, just looks interesting. Keep in mind that there is just a small amount of copper in that cable.
Shure se846 comes with the same cable in the box, so... Could you post a picture to see how green it gets?


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> I wanted to let everyone know that my KZ-made silver plated upgrade cables on both my ZS3 and ZST are starting to turn green.
> 
> The ZS3 cable is about 6 months old, and the ZST one about 4 months old. The older one is definitely greener than the younger one though.
> 
> ...



It's a copper patina. Normal reaction.


----------



## peskypesky (Jun 11, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I wanted to let everyone know that my KZ-made silver plated upgrade cables on both my ZS3 and ZST are starting to turn green.



when they start to turn green, you should notice a slight dip in the mid frequencies. Some people also notice a slight narrowing of the soundstage...but only on classical music composers who were born in France.


----------



## khighly

peskypesky said:


> when they start to turn green, you should notice a slight dip in the mid frequencies. Some people also notice a slight narrowing of the soundstage...but only on classical music composers who were born in France.



Phew, I almost threw a fit, but read the last part


----------



## ricemanhk

My silver cable is still ok, it's been about 6 months also and i live in a pretty dang humid place (can get to 100% in the summer...)
But then I haven't used it that much, just sitting in the box in a drawer

Perhaps the "silver" plating is (like the gold one for ZS5) just cosmetic and not actual silver?  hmm...


----------



## TheWongWrong (Jun 12, 2017)

ricemanhk said:


> My silver cable is still ok, it's been about 6 months also and i live in a pretty dang humid place (can get to 100% in the summer...)
> But then I haven't used it that much, just sitting in the box in a drawer
> 
> Perhaps the "silver" plating is (like the gold one for ZS5) just cosmetic and not actual silver?  hmm...


Well I seriously doubt it is actual silver, but I did see this picture mentioning Kevlar fiber


----------



## ricemanhk

TheWongWrong said:


> Well I seriously doubt it is actual silver, but I did see this picture mentioning Kevlar fiber



Kevlar is probably those fibers in the pic that help the wire gain tensile strength, but you can see the wires are supposedly silver plated. 
Silver plated copper wires are pretty common, and not that expensive since you're using very little silver.  Gold plated meanwhile is both more expensive (gold price > silver) while not delivering any supposed benefits (gold conductivity < copper < silver)


----------



## Vidal

Does anyone know if any Chinese companies have started cryo treating their cables yet?


----------



## ricemanhk

Hah I'm sure they would claim that if people start asking for it.

Meanwhile Xiaomi pro HDs (gen 5) supposedly use graphene drivers...


----------



## VinceHill24

Vidal said:


> Does anyone know if any Chinese companies have started cryo treating their cables yet?


Companies not sure but there are factories doing that already. I came across some while purchasing cables on Alibaba, not quite convince to give a try tho coz this cryo treatment thing sounds a lot like pseudoscience to me lol.


----------



## blazinblazin

For me the silver cable somehow gave me sound properties of a copper cable than a silver.

The gold sound very similar or same as the stock cable.


----------



## TheWongWrong (Jun 12, 2017)

Makes me wonder why the copper in the stock cable has like three different colours?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

3 different colors so that assembly is easier.  You know which wire is which.  If you have all the same color wire, you've got to follow the lengths all the way down the wire which takes time, and time is money.  If you've ever built or looked inside a computer, power supplies generally have multicolored wires.  This is done for the same reason, and the colors are actually standardized now.  You generally only find all-black cables on more expensive power supplies because as stated before, it takes more assembly and QC time.  And time = money.


----------



## groucho69

SomeTechNoob said:


> 3 different colors so that assembly is easier.  You know which wire is which.  If you have all the same color wire, you've got to follow the lengths all the way down the wire which takes time, and time is money.  If you've ever built or looked inside a computer, power supplies generally have multicolored wires.  This is done for the same reason, and the colors are actually standardized now.  You generally only find all-black cables on more expensive power supplies because as stated before, it takes more assembly and QC time.  And time = money.



Absolutely. Imagine running cables to hook up your speakers through your walls that is uncoded.


----------



## eyepauls

Curiosity got the better of me, just ordered a ZS5  - this will be my second KZ product (first was a ZST nearly a year ago) - keen to see the companies "progression"


----------



## Zoide

Pete7 said:


> Had the ZS5 for a week now. At first I felt they sounded real closed-in like, but my error was trying to get as deep an insertion as I could get. A shallow-as-possible insertion (with spinfit tips- good staying power) and the sound opened up quite a bit. Even the comfort improved, which is surprising considering how god-awful tubby the housings are. I also removed the original screens (no black foam in there) and replaced them with screens I got from aliexpress. Keep in mind, if you remove the screens on the ZS5, they're a bitch to put back on.



I noticed that you have the Westone 4R, which I also have 

Are the ZS5 or any of these Chi-Fi IEMs comparable? Or is the astronomical price difference still justified?

Thanks


----------



## Zoide

Skullophile said:


> The strength of a twfk imho is the treble. You have to spend big bucks to get treble that performs better (in general). Hmmm, Altone 200, T-peos H300, CK100, VE Duke spring to mind, The first two will be a little too hot for most.
> I havn't heard a cheapish chi-fi iem come close in the treble to these or the dual twfk's i've tried. Even my Gleam 8BA (DZ8) sounds a little rolled off next to these but it comes close.



Interesting. I *loved* the sparkly, beautiful treble of my Fischer Audio DBA-02, but they did lack a bit of impact. I'd hoped that these new multi-driver Chi-Fi IEMs would somehow retain the sparkly treble and add the missing oomph.


----------



## waveriderhawaii (Jun 13, 2017)

SpiderNhan said:


> GearBest has got the ZS5 on presale. First 100 pieces are $26 with coupon code "KZZS5"
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/gearbests-headphones-thread.832367/page-11#post-13536681



Oooh. That sold me. They are sold out of the Grey, so I got blue. Mahalo SpiderNhan.

edit: Now that's strange. They were out of the grey not 20 minutes ago, and now they seem to be back.


----------



## crabdog (Jun 13, 2017)

oops!


----------



## Vidal

@crabdog - wrong thread man!


----------



## crabdog

Vidal said:


> @crabdog - wrong thread man!


Oh yeah thought I was still in the Chinese IEM thread! Gonna move it


----------



## toddy0191

Anyone else have a Samsung galaxy S8?

Just received my ZS5s and they don't work out of the s8 with the silver cable!

They work fine from my old LG G4 though so nothing defective about them. It's nothing to do with mic / no mic situation either as other iems without mics work fine on the s8.

Really really puzzled??????


----------



## WilliamCruz (Jun 13, 2017)

blazinblazin said:


> For me the silver cable somehow gave me sound properties of a copper cable than a silver.
> 
> The gold sound very similar or same as the stock cable.



apparently my lune silver cable made the bass of zs5 even more prominent, other frequencies were pretty much the same though, no difference between the silver cable they provided vs.stock.


----------



## VinceHill24

toddy0191 said:


> Anyone else have a Samsung galaxy S8?
> 
> Just received my ZS5s and they don't work out of the s8 with the silver cable!
> 
> ...


Not sure if the problem lies with the S8 headphone jack / the cable coz i've read from some android forums that some users reported same issues whereby headphone jack is not working well and apparently it's the phone issue. Some tried full shutdown and restart whilst others without luck have to go to Samsung customer service for support. Not sure if it'll be helpful coz i do not own Samsung S8


----------



## To.M

I found some picture on FB showing what is inside ZS5, I guess it looks interesting enuff to paste it here:


----------



## vladstef

I might have missed it, there was a post talking about ZS5 effectively having 2 active drivers with 2 drivers just floating in glue and not contributing to the sound. Is this finally resolved, are all 4 drivers actually doing their thing? Also, what's up with the seam where 2 pieces of plastic meet, are there went holes or was that a defective unit?


----------



## Skullophile

For issues with the headphone jack try the android app called "sound about". Worked for me.


----------



## toddy0191 (Jun 13, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> For issues with the headphone jack try the android app called "sound about". Worked for me.



Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Didn't work unfortunately.

Swapped the silver cable with the stock zs3 mic cable and they work now and the zs3 works with silver cable so not sure what's going on there. 

Shame as I like the look of the silver cable.


----------



## bjaardker

Does anyone know what diameter the pins are on the ZS5 cable? The memory wire that comes stock is awful. I'd like to replace but not sure with what. Thanks!


----------



## bhazard

Anyone else not that thrilled with the ZS5? It sounds off, artificial. I'll have to try the stock cable next to see if maybe it is just my silver cable causing issues.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bhazard said:


> Anyone else not that thrilled with the ZS5? It sounds off, artificial. I'll have to try the stock cable next to see if maybe it is just my silver cable causing issues.



I've got two (blue and grey) and they sound no more artificial than any other hybrid...*shrug* More natural than either the ZST or Audbos/Magaosi K3 imo.


----------



## Vidal

bhazard said:


> Anyone else not that thrilled with the ZS5? It sounds off, artificial. I'll have to try the stock cable next to see if maybe it is just my silver cable causing issues.



Most natural sounding hybrid I've heard, well on par with the BossHIFi B3 in that respect


----------



## groucho69

waveriderhawaii said:


> Oooh. That sold me. They are sold out of the Grey, so I got blue. Mahalo SpiderNhan.
> 
> edit: Now that's strange. They were out of the grey not 20 minutes ago, and now they seem to be back.



Grey must be magic


----------



## Zoide

B9Scrambler said:


> I've got two (blue and grey) and they sound no more artificial than any other hybrid...*shrug* More natural than either the ZST or Audbos/Magaosi K3 imo.



How does the ZS5 compare overall to your TFZ Exclusive King and Fischer Audio Dubliz Enhanced? Thanks


----------



## bhazard (Jun 13, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> I've got two (blue and grey) and they sound no more artificial than any other hybrid...*shrug* More natural than either the ZST or Audbos/Magaosi K3 imo.



Interesting. Mine may be either different, defective, or just not to my liking. Needs EQ to shine. Measurements show anything but natural.

Preliminary measurements. Big spike at 2-4kHz in the mids.


----------



## bhazard

Be careful of using the silver cable the wrong way. I had the pins backwards, causing it to sound off. The graph is stock cable.


----------



## bhazard

Try an EQ curve like this on the ZS5 silver cable. Sounds very good.


----------



## themindfreak

bhazard said:


> Be careful of using the silver cable the wrong way. I had the pins backwards, causing it to sound off. The graph is stock cable.


Could you possibly take a pic showing which way the cable should go in? I tried both ways on my silver cable but I'm not sure if I can tell a difference...


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 14, 2017)

bhazard said:


> Interesting. Mine may be either different, defective, or just not to my liking. Needs EQ to shine. Measurements show anything but natural.
> 
> Preliminary measurements. Big spike at 2-4kHz in the mids.



That's a pretty wacky looking mid-range there :S Can see why you're getting the impressions you are. I'm not in agreement with the feedback that the ZS5 are balanced, but they definitely don't sound off-kilter like that, lol. I almost think of them as a ZST with more mid-bass, better sub-bass extension, and with less prominence and sizzle to the treble. Mid-range sounds pretty even with no particular excessive dips or spikes, though female vocals seem slightly more prominent. It's missing the mid-range quirks that I didn't like about the ZST. Could just be the tracks I've been using them with though. Treble presentation is my least favorite aspect of the ZS5 though I don't mind it. It just comes across as edgy and mildly uncomfortable at times. I think they perform near the same level as the Audbos K3. Similar signature and overall performance. Not bad for 30 bucks  I also like the build. They're light yeah, but they feel rock solid and for me at least are the most comfortable of the new KZs. They're the only one I can just pop in and get a good seal right away with. No twisting to find the ideal position like with the ZS3 and ZST.

The memory wire has proven not to be problematic for me either since I have it bent like this, with the tail end tilting in towards the nozzle keeping the cable against my head/neck;


----------



## Mus1c

B9Scrambler said:


> That's a pretty wacky looking mid-range there :S Can see why you're getting the impressions you are. I'm not in agreement with the feedback that the ZS5 are balanced, but they definitely don't sound off-kilter like that, lol. I almost think of them as a ZST with more mid-bass, better sub-bass extension, and with less prominence and sizzle to the treble. Mid-range sounds pretty even with no particular excessive dips or spikes, though female vocals seem slightly more prominent. It's missing the mid-range quirks that I didn't like about the ZST. Could just be the tracks I've been using them with though. Treble presentation is my least favorite aspect of the ZS5 though I don't mind it. It just comes across a edgy and mildly uncomfortable at times. I think they perform near the same level as the Audbos K3. Similar signature and overall performance. Not bad for 30 bucks  I also like the build. They're light yeah, but they feel rock solid and for me at least are the most comfortable of the new KZs. They're the only one I can just pop in and get a good seal right away with. No twisting to find the ideal position like with the ZS3 and ZST.
> 
> The memory wire has proven not to be problematic for me either since I have it bent like this, with the tail end tilting in towards the nozzle keeping the cable against my head/neck;


As far for comfort how its handle? Does it hurt a lot after long sessions of listening.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mus1c said:


> As far for comfort how its handle? Does it hurt a lot after long sessions of listening.



I can wear them pretty much all day no problem, but I don't see that being the case for everyone. If the edges touch your inner ear I'm sure they'll cause hotspots. I can see these being pretty hit and miss for comfort depending on the shape of your ears.


----------



## Pete7

Zoide said:


> I noticed that you have the Westone 4R, which I also have
> 
> Are the ZS5 or any of these Chi-Fi IEMs comparable? Or is the astronomical price difference still justified?
> 
> Thanks



The ZS5 has a nicer treble extension and bass impact than the W4R, but in terms of refinement, imaging and all-around versatility it falls short. The housings of the ZS5 would be another area they fall short, especially in my case. The fit of the ZS5 in my left ear is off, and when I move around I hear a swooshing sound no matter which cable I use. I also had a similar fit problem with the ZST. I like to be able to be mobile (walking, working out) with my IEMs. Price-wise though, I'm not sure spending 300-400 dollars is justified for any "premium" IEM in which the design isn't really cutting edge anymore and may be outdated. 
The best Chi-FI IEM I've heard and own is the Magaosi K3 Pro. While it's more expensive at $110, it not only competes with my 4R and W30 and stacks up really well, and may even exceed both of them. The K3 Pro also has more traditional style housings, smaller than the Westones, yet someone manages to fit 2 BA's and 1 DD in each earphone.


----------



## bhazard

After finding out I had my cable pins reversed, the ZS5 sounds much better. I'll retake measurements because it doesn't sound as off as my graph indicates, but you never know. It isn't very comfortable to me either, and I hate the memory wire on the silver cable.

I don't think this can really match the K3 or K3 Pro, but it isn't far off and costs much less. Best KZ to date.


----------



## Slater (Jun 14, 2017)

bhazard said:


> Be careful of using the silver cable the wrong way. I had the pins backwards, causing it to sound off. The graph is stock cable.





themindfreak said:


> Could you possibly take a pic showing which way the cable should go in? I tried both ways on my silver cable but I'm not sure if I can tell a difference...



Sounds like a good time to repost my Public Service Announcement LOL

Here's my photo showing how to check for proper orientation on the KZ 2-pin models (ZS3, ZST, ZS5):


----------



## khighly

It's keyed, so when you push it down to seat it in you can't even put it in backwards.


----------



## colgateam

khighly said:


> It's keyed, so when you push it down to seat it in you can't even put it in backwards.



Don't underestimate people.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> It's keyed, so when you push it down to seat it in you can't even put it in backwards.



Actually, there's been a bunch of people that have put it in backwards. It just doesn't seat down all the way, and gets held in solely by the friction of the pins (at least temporarily, until it works loose and falls out).


----------



## Ethan Mohr

Can anyonw give me a rundown between sound differences in the zst and the zs5? Im liking my zs5 bud damn those coloroful zsts are sexy!!!


----------



## ezekiel77 (Jun 15, 2017)

ZS5 sound impressions after 150 hours, compared to OOTB. Silver KZ cable used. Driven from Xiaomi Mi5, various modern pop/rock/dance tracks tested.

After burning in, it seems to have a cleaner midbass, and smoother transition to mids with a bit of bleed. Mids are relaxed and slightly recessed. Upper mids and treble are still bitey somewhat. Imaging and airiness remain very good.

Overall impressions:
Bass is nice. Subbass goes deep enough and isn't boomy. A bit of rumble is felt. Midbass is just a touch wooly, but not bloated (actually quicker than expected), with a good punch and decay.

Mids are the weakest part of ZS5 for me. Mildly recessed, vocals don't soar above the rest of the spectrum, with the bass threatening to bleed into them. They sometimes sound a bit hollow too. Good part is they sound relatively relaxed and flat.

Upper mids and treble have good presence, with some sparkle and good detail levels. Not harsh to my ears, but the edges sound a bit rough and unrefined. Dry compared to the good-bodied and smooth bass.

Soundstage is large for this price range. Good width and depth. Imaging is wonderful, I've been tricked a couple times by them. I looked at the direction of a voice I thought was calling me, saw no one and realised it's from the track I'm playing. What I love most is the overall quick note attacks, leading to a spacious and airy sound. This can work against the ZS5 sometimes (the mids hollowness for example), but the spaciousness and accurate imaging are pretty addictive enough to give the other shortcomings a pass.

Overall it's a very enjoyable U-shaped IEM for $30, with imaging and soundstage capabilities comparable to more expensive IEMs. I haven't gone into comparisons yet, but will try soon when I have the time.


----------



## loomisjohnson

very good review--you give an excellent sense of what they actually sound like. it appears that you find the mids somewhat lifeless/flat, which is the issue i have with the otherwise estimable zst.


----------



## themindfreak

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sounds like a good time to repost my Public Service Announcement LOL
> 
> Here's my photo showing how to check for proper orientation on the KZ 2-pin models (ZS3, ZST, ZS5):


Thx for the post. In actual fact my ZST and ZS3 needed to have the correct way to fit in however my ZS5 seems to be able to fit in both directions. Both ways dont go in very deep. Unless I'm not using enough strength on the correct side...


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sounds like a good time to repost my Public Service Announcement LOL
> 
> Here's my photo showing how to check for proper orientation on the KZ 2-pin models (ZS3, ZST, ZS5):



Once a week should do it.


----------



## Slater (Jun 15, 2017)

themindfreak said:


> Thx for the post. In actual fact my ZST and ZS3 needed to have the correct way to fit in however my ZS5 seems to be able to fit in both directions. Both ways dont go in very deep. Unless I'm not using enough strength on the correct side...



No problem, glad to help.

On both of my sets of ZS3s, it takes near gorilla force to get it to seat fully (lined up properly of course). It takes much less force on the ZST, but it appears that much of the force required on the ZS3 is not the pins but rather the plug body itself (which has long shoulders & inserts rather deeply into the IEM shell's recessed female socket). Since the ZS5 and ZS3 share the same cable, I assume the story with the ZS5 is pretty much the same.



groucho69 said:


> Once a week should do it.



haha, yeah. I added it in my signature, which should help :0)


----------



## actorlife

peskypesky said:


> when they start to turn green, you should notice a slight dip in the mid frequencies. Some people also notice a slight narrowing of the soundstage...but only on classical music composers who were born in France.


Or C as the in Canada. DOTS COOL.


----------



## vegetaleb

The price of the ZS5 already dropped to 25$ on AE
Anyway anyone here used his ZS3 on a Galaxy S8? If yes is the S8 good enough to drive them?


----------



## vladstef

Few days ago, ordered ZS5 (gray, no mic, with silver cable) and Vido earbuds from NiceHCK, using a smartphone app. Using a phone gives a huge discount on ZS5 and store auto deducted about a dollar just cuz the amount is somewhat high. Total =28,5$... there is a deal if I've ever seen one.


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> Few days ago, ordered ZS5 (gray, no mic, with silver cable) and Vido earbuds from NiceHCK, using a smartphone app. Using a phone gives a huge discount on ZS5 and store auto deducted about a dollar just cuz the amount is somewhat high. Total =28,5$... there is a deal if I've ever seen one.


Should one get the silver cable together for the ZS5?


----------



## toddy0191

vegetaleb said:


> The price of the ZS5 already dropped to 25$ on AE
> Anyway anyone here used his ZS3 on a Galaxy S8? If yes is the S8 good enough to drive them?



Only tried them briefly on my s8 (exynos versi on) and they seemed fine. Will give them a proper listen later and let you know. 

One thing I can say though is the ZSTs have amazing synergy with the S8. They have to be the most source sensitive earphone I own!  The highs made my ears bleed on my LG G4 and they sounded MUCH better on my Xduoo X3, but they sound phenomenal on my S8, almost to the level of the ZS5.

Maybe this variance with source contributes to the varying opinions on them.


----------



## nihontoman

so, I just tried to remove the memory wire portion on the stock cable of the ZS3 and to my surprise, there is no "memory wire" under the thick rubbery portion that should be housing it... There is no metal wire underneath. jus the cable itself and that's it. glad I decided to cut it off, because this way it is MUCH more comfortable :/

Also changed the red filters to the mesh steel screen. 4mm fits great. the thing is, the sound is bit better this way (more highs) which makes the thing less boomy and more spacious sounding. also, there was no red foam thingy in the sound tube. Mine are the VERY first generation, I preordered these when they first came out


----------



## bjaardker

Any suggestions on a non memory wire ZS5 replacement cable?


----------



## vladstef

bjaardker said:


> Any suggestions on a non memory wire ZS5 replacement cable?


I can't wait to receive my pair and see what all the fuss is about regarding that cable, generally, you can fix a lot of issues with memory wire by molding it to a specific shape and just being careful not to reshape it when inserting/removing them.
You can always just remove that memory wire, no need for new cable. Memory wire and signal cable are separated and have a protective tube around them, find the end of memory wire, push it through the tube and keep pulling it till the connector, cut it at the root and remove the tube that is leftover which has no function now.


----------



## bjaardker

vladstef said:


> I can't wait to receive my pair and see what all the fuss is about regarding that cable, generally, you can fix a lot of issues with memory wire by molding it to a specific shape and just being careful not to reshape it when inserting/removing them.
> You can always just remove that memory wire, no need for new cable. Memory wire and signal cable are separated and have a protective tube around them, find the end of memory wire, push it through the tube and keep pulling it till the connector, cut it at the root and remove the tube that is leftover which has no function now.



Yup, I'm going to hack away at it and remove the wire tonight. I normally really like memory wire cables, however it doesn't work with this specific IEM for a few reasons:

1) The IEM is REALLY light. So even the slightest bump of the wire ends up shifting the IEM in your ear and sometimes breaking the seal.
2) The memory wire seems to be longer than most leading to the need for some extra sculpting of the wire to get it to fit right.
3) The shape of the IEM and the angle at which the cable connects to the IEM makes it much more awkward than usual for memory wire. It just feels...un-natural.


----------



## Slater

nihontoman said:


> so, I just tried to remove the memory wire portion on the stock cable of the ZS3 and to my surprise, there is no "memory wire" under the thick rubbery portion that should be housing it... There is no metal wire underneath. jus the cable itself and that's it. glad I decided to cut it off, because this way it is MUCH more comfortable :/
> 
> Also changed the red filters to the mesh steel screen. 4mm fits great. the thing is, the sound is bit better this way (more highs) which makes the thing less boomy and more spacious sounding. also, there was no red foam thingy in the sound tube. Mine are the VERY first generation, I preordered these when they first came out



Interesting - I thought all of the memory wires had an actual metal wire inside.

So I was able to verify on a brand new pair of ZS3 that they indeed still have the acoustic foam inside the tube (ie early models = no foam, later models through current = foam).

Good call on the red filters - I swapped mine out for 4mm stainless screens as well.

Knowing the effect the red filters (vs stainless mesh) has on the highs, I wish KZ had instead put the filters on the ZST instead of the stainless mesh they used. The ZST would have been just the right amount of brightness then. Kind of ironic that they did the filters on the ZS3 when they benefit from the stainless mesh, and the ZST has the stainless mesh when they would benefit from the filters LOL


----------



## ezekiel77

snip3r77 said:


> Should one get the silver cable together for the ZS5?



The silver cable is better to handle and better looking than the stock. I didn't like the stock cable. Too springy and rubbery feeling. To me the $7 for an extra silver cable is worth it. Just don't expect sound improvements.

Some might not like the silver cable bcos of the memory wire, and no chin slider.


----------



## hanaxxaru

Hi, please take my review as non-professional side. I may be wrong in the word terms used in the below part. My ZS5 is used with iPhone SE.

I already tried using it few days and it is really good. Out of the box, its sound little thin but after a while, all frequency can be heard. Kinda U-shaped but close to balance. Tight and punchy subbass, midbass left behind and not so pronounced. Voice has forward signature and great clarity due to reduced midbass but lack body. I'm impressed on how it is so clear and bright without any sibilances. Same goes with the treble. Great extension, splashy and bright but little bit fatigue to be listened for a long period of time. Soundstage and instrument separation above average without being unnatural.

My bad part is only the comfort wise. The shape not so friendly with my ears but plastic housing make it stay as it light. Nozzle little short, i'm using my cheap chinese clear silicone with blue bore, that one works good even with my other iem. Cable wise, stock kinda sticky and silver plated one, not so comfort due to hard memory wire and the cable itself. It also need little bit more power to drive but not sure if it will benefit if using with an amp. Overall, it makes my Dunu DN-1000 sound darker and bassy. If not because the comfort issue, I would use the KZ ZS5 as my daily iem.

For isolation, I suggests to use long bore tips. It may help. Thanks!


----------



## Mus1c

How to know which is old zs3 or new zs3? Mine is glossy look.


----------



## toddy0191

hanaxxaru said:


> Hi, please take my review as non-professional side. I may be wrong in the word terms used in the below part. My ZS5 is used with iPhone SE.
> 
> I already tried using it few days and it is really good. Out of the box, its sound little thin but after a while, all frequency can be heard. Kinda U-shaped but close to balance. Tight and punchy subbass, midbass left behind and not so pronounced. Voice has forward signature and great clarity due to reduced midbass but lack body. I'm impressed on how it is so clear and bright without any sibilances. Same goes with the treble. Great extension, splashy and bright but little bit fatigue to be listened for a long period of time. Soundstage and instrument separation above average without being unnatural.
> 
> ...



Just remove the memory wire the comfort improves massively.  If you tear away the tubing that covers the wire, then wiggle the memory wire in a circular motion, it just pulls out.


----------



## Mus1c

slaterlovesspam said:


> Interesting - I thought all of the memory wires had an actual metal wire inside.
> 
> So I was able to verify on a brand new pair of ZS3 that they indeed still have the acoustic foam inside the tube (ie early models = no foam, later models through current = foam).
> 
> ...


I remove all inside zs3 foam and red mesh.


----------



## Slater (Jun 17, 2017)

Mus1c said:


> How to know which is old zs3 or new zs3? Mine is glossy look.



If it's glossy black, and has the black tuning foam under the red filter, then you have the latest version.

Since you already removed the black foam and the red filter, you have the best sound improvement possible. If you want to go a step further, you can install 4mm stainless mesh where the red filter was. You can get a sheet of 10 of the mesh pieces (enough for 5 pairs of IEMs) for under $1 on Aliexpress.


----------



## HiFiChris

snip3r77 said:


> Should one get the silver cable together for the ZS5?



Imvho you definitely should - it doesn't only look better, but is also much more flexible (the stock one is quite springy and rubbery), less microphonic and has got four twisted conductors below the y-splitter. In addition, around $7 are dirt-cheap for a twisted cable with 2-pin connectors.


----------



## Vidal

I've removed the memory wire from my ZS5 and added some weights to the cable, it's much better as a result. I don't want to swap to another cable as 70% of the time I use the ZS5 straight from my iPhone and the mic cable has full iOS controls.


----------



## HiFiChris

By the way, here is my take on the ZS5, also including a comparison with the quite popular 1More E1001: http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2017/06/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs5-review.html

 

It's in German but there's a Google Translator option/widget in the navigation bar.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Great review


----------



## acia

Pure silver and copper cable. 

Better instrument and bass. Vocal not tommuch difference.


----------



## Slater

Vidal said:


> I've removed the memory wire from my ZS5 and added some weights to the cable, it's much better as a result. I don't want to swap to another cable as 70% of the time I use the ZS5 straight from my iPhone and the mic cable has full iOS controls.



What did you use for weights?


----------



## khighly

slaterlovesspam said:


> Interesting - I thought all of the memory wires had an actual metal wire inside.
> 
> So I was able to verify on a brand new pair of ZS3 that they indeed still have the acoustic foam inside the tube (ie early models = no foam, later models through current = foam).
> 
> ...



I actually enjoy the brightness of the ZST's and after a few days my brain has entirely adjusted for it. They lack substantial mids, but they're still my favorite IEM I own.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I've had so many headphones that are brighter than the ZST, so the ZST didn't seem bright to me at all.  Good amount of high end and basically zero listening fatigue for me.  Only cons are the mids.


----------



## toddy0191

Only gone and ordered myself a blue pair of ZS5s in addition to my grey pair.

Why????

It was like a reflex reaction hitting buy when I saw they had dropped to £20, plus a store coupon taking another 1.92 off.  I guess it's my subconscious telling me I like them!

Need to stay off aliexpress!!!


----------



## Sylmar

toddy0191 said:


> Only gone and ordered myself a blue pair of ZS5s in addition to my grey pair.
> 
> Why????
> 
> ...



Lol that sounds like me. I've become a collector of IEMS all of a sudden.


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> What did you use for weights?



At the moments just blutack but will get round to doing a proper job with Sugru


----------



## groucho69

toddy0191 said:


> Only gone and ordered myself a blue pair of ZS5s in addition to my grey pair.
> 
> Why????
> 
> ...



Damn that Gratification Monkey!


----------



## khighly (Jun 19, 2017)

*ZS5 Review*

*Overview: 
KZ ZS5*
2x DD
2x BA

*Impedance *(measured with Fluke multimeter)*:
ZS5:* 4.15ohms
*ZST: *8.25ohms

*Comfort:* The memory wire is bad. I am personally not a fan, but others have said they really like it. These IEM's are made out of plastic, but they do seem like they'll withstand a good amount of abuse before you need to spend another $25 on a pair. In the ear, they're hard to get and keep a seal. The stem seems way too big but not long enough which makes my ears hurt. You may have to play around with different ear tips to get a correct fit. The stem has no lip, is short, and is too smooth, so I actually almost went to urgent care to get a [stock] ear tip out of my ear last night that came off the stem. I actually found tri flange to work very well and improve the sound greatly with a tight seal.

*Isolation: *Not great at all. Worse than the ZST's. Sitting on the light rail, I hear everything.

*Sound: *You're going to hate these at first and think they don't sound much better than the ZST. Give it about 12 hours of total listening over the course of a few days and you'll start liking them more and more. ZST-like, but with a bit extra. Very good seal is necessary for these IEM's. They do sound better than the ZST's (especially in soundstage), but there isn't that big of a difference. Mids are raised from the ZST, but they sit somewhat reserved and neutral. Bass isn't nearly as prominent as the ZST, but it's well controlled, punchy, fun, and ultimately has a more lower extension with a pleasant 'airy' effect on sub bass. Highs are harsh, just like the ZST - possibly even more harsh. I am a fan of the harsh highs as my brain switches into a mode where they bring out detail with just a good day of listening to them.

The entire sound signature sounds more controlled and neutral, but you still have those harsh highs.
*
Soundstage: *Enormous. Much more than ZST and ATR. These are going to be very trippy when I enjoy some legal Cannabis later. I'm actually hearing placement of instruments and sounds in new places around my head. Edit: Got high, did in fact have a good trippy experience with these.
*
Microphone & Controls: *Microphone 0/10. Terrible. Microphone buttons are totally useless on my Pixel XL. Volume down drops the volume one, and then just pushes it back up. Pause/Play does basically the same exact thing. Nobody can hear me well even when talking right into the mic port. No use for this cable for me.
*
Verdict: *They're a good experience over the ZST's when you find the right tips and comfort to get a good seal. and they have their pros and cons. Worth it for $25? Yes. Upgrade from the ZST? Yes.
*
Pictures:*


----------



## Audiotistic

khighly said:


>



Is that the stock cable?  The pair I purchased off gearbest has a different cable in the picture.


----------



## khighly

Audiotistic said:


> Is that the stock cable?  The pair I purchased off gearbest has a different cable in the picture.



Silver upgrade cable, few dollars extra. I need to take the memory wire out of both.


----------



## DareTo (Jun 18, 2017)

My first post on head-fi. Might as well make it something interesting...

I messaged the KZ Official Store on aliexpress to ask if they were planning on selling the ZS5 and got the following reply:



> ZS5 is now on sale in China
> But it will change the details such as microphone



I've asked for more information, but in the mean time maybe the experts here have some insight into these implied planned changes?

EDIT: Got a reply to my request for more information:



> I can't tell you for now. Please understand



The plot thickens...


----------



## toddy0191

khighly said:


> *Placeholder for my Official Review. I will keep editing this as I listen more. INITIAL THOUGHTS RIGHT NOW*
> 
> *Overview: *Eh...
> 
> ...



You've said a lot of what I think, although I don't agree that the ZSTs are better. Was A/B ing with the ZSTs and they do sound very similar although the extension at both ends of the spectrum is better on the ZS5 IMO.

Separation and layering are amazing for the price and I love that soundstage. Try the larger tips with a shallow insertion (as suggested by another user) and the isolation improves massively.  Also try taping the vents on the front if your ears don't naturally block it.

Give them time as the more I listen to them the more I love them.


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> *Sound: *Get ready for disappointment here. These are 8+hr impressions. I don't see anything special here. Everything seems very neutral-ish and kind of muddy, but the top end of the highs scream with sibilance. ZST's have better sub bass and mid bass, and I could only recognize a slight difference in mids between them. Bass in the ZS5's seems very reserved and controlled. It's like an ATR with actual highs. There is a little more separation between highs/mids/lows in the ZS5's. So far, *I think everyone has fallen for marketing*, but I'll give it a few more days. They do sound better than the ZST's (especially in soundstage), but there isn't that big of a difference. Luckily KZ headphones are cheap and it isn't $200-$400 between different models.



Fine to have your own opinion, since hearing is so subjective.  But there's no need to diss other's opinion just because they are different to yours, especially when there are alot of folks here with LOTS more reviewing experience than you.


----------



## toddy0191

ricemanhk said:


> Fine to have your own opinion, since hearing is so subjective.  But there's no need to diss other's opinion just because they are different to yours, especially when there are alot of folks here with LOTS more reviewing experience than you.



Hype can get out of control on here sometimes in BOTH directions. 

The ZST got off to a bad start for example and it's almost heresy on here to say they are good.  

The ZS5 has started off with great feedback (deservedly so IMO) but I agree with khighly that they're not that far apart from the. ZST. 

This doesn't mean they're bad, but just means that I regard the ZSTs as also being exceptionally good for their price, despite popular opinion about sibilance and ear piercing treble.

With more listening though, the extra refinement of the ZS5s becomes apparent.


----------



## Spelaeus

toddy0191 said:


> Hype can get out of control on here sometimes in BOTH directions.
> 
> The ZST got off to a bad start for example and it's almost heresy on here to say they are good.
> 
> ...



Pretty much my opinion. Was very impressed with the ZST at its price point. Like the ZS5 a bit more. But I also enjoy Grado, so hot treble doesn't seem to bother me.


----------



## WilliamCruz (Jun 18, 2017)

The ZS5 sound quality is top notch. If it wasn't for the crappy comfort and design, i'd use it more often. Time to hunt the next chinese IEM


----------



## toddy0191

WilliamCruz said:


> The ZS5 sound quality is top notch. If it wasn't for the crappy comfort and design, i'd use it more often. Time to hunt the next chinese IEM



Get shot of the memory wire and they're fine (for me at least)


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Jun 18, 2017)

Hi all

Thanks for all the replies and help, new here

Just purchased the ZS5 and also found another seller that has the Bluetooth adapter for ZS3 / ZS5 by itself, so got that too!

 so think I may have found the perfect setup for the gym, when it all arrives ...

Anyone have any advice on some cheap tips to buy that fit the diameter of the nozzle? (Or what diameter I should be looking out for even!)

Thanks again


----------



## VinceHill24

toddy0191 said:


> You've said a lot of what I think, although I don't agree that the ZSTs are better. Was A/B ing with the ZSTs and they do sound very similar although the extension at both ends of the spectrum is better on the ZS5 IMO.
> 
> Separation and layering are amazing for the price and I love that soundstage. Try the larger tips with a shallow insertion (as suggested by another user) and the isolation improves massively.  Also try taping the vents on the front if your ears don't naturally block it.
> 
> Give them time as the more I listen to them the more I love them.


Tape mod + wide bore large tips for shallow insertion indeed work the best for me currently but i foresee the ZS5 won't last long due to the Mod as the 'clipping sound upon insertion' / driver flex will always be there when i wear it. Although i don't mind it since it is so damn cheap but i think the lifespan of the driver will likely be shorten as a result.


----------



## khighly (Jun 18, 2017)

ricemanhk said:


> Fine to have your own opinion, since hearing is so subjective.  But there's no need to diss other's opinion just because they are different to yours, especially when there are alot of folks here with LOTS more reviewing experience than you.



I'm not concerned about reviewing experience. Most of the popular people reviewing on this website use snake oil terms and their entire reviews are total snake oil. You can tell they're been deluded by marketing. I'm about honest every day non-marketing reviews.

"The mids are fast and speedy and the silver cable really makes the mids pop and sibilance decrease. The blue KZ5's have a different sound signature because of the wavelength of absorption in the 470nm range, so the lows are more punchy" - mark of someone you should never listen to.

Anyway, I did have a change of mind last night with the ZS5's but I need to listen to them today again with fresh ears. They do sound a lot like the ZST's but there is a little bit extra which gives them a more full sound. Soundstage is seriously good. Brain burn-in is very real. I'll make new updates on my post later.

I also had a change with comfort, but again, I'll update original my post.


----------



## khighly

DareTo said:


> My first post on head-fi. Might as well make it something interesting...
> 
> I messaged the KZ Official Store on aliexpress to ask if they were planning on selling the ZS5 and got the following reply:
> 
> ...



I hope they change the microphone. The buttons do not work at all with my phone.


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> Hi all
> 
> Thanks for all the replies and help, new here
> 
> ...



Why do you want to change the tips? The stock tips (Starlines) are the best tip KZ makes IMO (sound wise, build quality, and comfort). I put Starlines on 75% of the IEMs I own. If they don't fit, I make them fit; they're that good.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I'm not concerned about reviewing experience. Most of the popular people reviewing on this website use snake oil terms and their entire reviews are total snake oil. You can tell they're been deluded by marketing. I'm about honest every day non-marketing reviews.
> ...
> *They do sound a lot like the ZST's but there is a little bit extra which gives them a more full sound.*
> ...



Sounds like snake oil to me LOL

Besides, you didn't say which cables you were using on the ZS5. The gold plated cables sound the best because of the crystalline structure of the copper and the gold ions allowing the sine wave frequencies to pass more efficiently.


----------



## khighly

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sounds like snake oil to me LOL
> 
> Besides, you didn't say which cables you were using on the ZS5. The gold plated cables sound the best because of the crystalline structure of the copper and the gold ions allowing the sine wave frequencies to pass more efficiently.





I'm going to start selling port hole grease. These guys will buy it.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sounds like snake oil to me LOL
> 
> Besides, you didn't say which cables you were using on the ZS5. The gold plated cables sound the best because of the crystalline structure of the copper and the gold ions allowing the sine wave frequencies to pass more efficiently.



It's more about aligning the crystal to allow for the bilateral continuance of the wave as it progresses along the neural network.


----------



## aleksanderp

Well according to official ad, the sound signal travel in gold plated cable 1.5 faster than in silver plated cable, there you have it from the snake oil maker's mouth:
http://imgur.com/dDWIjSt


----------



## toddy0191

khighly said:


> I'm going to start selling port hole grease. These guys will buy it.



That just sounds wrong.

How much?


----------



## Slater (Jun 20, 2017)

aleksanderp said:


> Well according to official ad, the sound signal travel in gold plated cable 1.5 faster than in silver plated cable, there you have it from the snake oil maker's mouth:
> http://imgur.com/dDWIjSt



Wow, 1.5xs faster than the speed of light! Why aren't those guys building spaceships instead of headphone cables?


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I'm going to start selling port hole grease. These guys will buy it.



Actually, I just greased up my muffler bearings today with some port hole grease. There's no slicker stuff out there! Accept no substitutes.


----------



## khighly (Jun 18, 2017)

Using my tri-flange on the ZS5's is VERY comfortable. I've never been able to use tri-flange because they hurt my ear. This is great. Mids came alive finally with this good seal. Stock ear tips aren't very good for the ZS5.

These are very tip & seal dependent. I have these with my tri-flange and the bass bumps and goes down low (better bass than my Tennmak Piano's!), mids are out in full force. Everything is nicely separated and not muddy. I was hoping for this. EDM sounds so good. No distortion at all and sounds good with more of the Future genre with some distorted basslines.

Better than the ZST++


----------



## snip3r77

khighly said:


> I hope they change the microphone. The buttons do not work at all with my phone.



Does it work with the iPhone?


----------



## khighly

snip3r77 said:


> Does it work with the iPhone?


I do not have an iPhone, sorry 

The microphone just doesn't work AT ALL.Nobody can hear me well even when I'm talking directly into it.


----------



## snip3r77

khighly said:


> I do not have an iPhone, sorry
> 
> The microphone just doesn't work AT ALL.Nobody can hear me well even when I'm talking directly into it.



You're using the silver plus mic cable combo?


----------



## khighly

snip3r77 said:


> You're using the silver plus mic cable combo?


Stock cable. Silver doesn't have a mic.


----------



## acia

Get custom cable.  Much better sound quality.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

haha

for a <$25 iem?

nah.  I personally can't hear any major difference between the silver kz cable and the stock cable anyway - I purchased it for the looks and more flexible cable anyway.


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> I do not have an iPhone, sorry
> 
> The microphone just doesn't work AT ALL.Nobody can hear me well even when I'm talking directly into it.



Think you have a bum mic and control.

I've tested on both ipad and android phone, this is a rare mic w/volume control that works on both.  However, because of the need to have a chip inside to do the switching, I do find that sometimes the volume controls will stop working on my android phone (possibly it switched to ios style for some reason), but then a quick plug and unplug will reset it and it works again. Center button and the mic itself will always work since there's no difference between ios and android.

As for voice, the mic position is a little further down the wire than most, so I need to raise it up next to my mouth in noisy environments.  But voice clarity from the other end is fine, at least for the few phone calls I've taken hah


----------



## khighly

SomeTechNoob said:


> haha
> 
> for a <$25 iem?
> 
> nah.  I personally can't hear any major difference between the silver kz cable and the stock cable anyway - I purchased it for the looks and more flexible cable anyway.



There is no difference. Correct.


----------



## acia

khighly said:


> There is no difference. Correct.


Custom cable has huge difference


----------



## ricemanhk

Alright people, please keep the cable matters or not discussion to the sound science forum.

If you like custom cables, good for you.  If you think it doesn't matter, good for you.


----------



## chinmie

ricemanhk said:


> Alright people, please keep the cable matters or not discussion to the sound science forum.
> 
> If you like custom cables, good for you.  If you think it doesn't matter, good for you.



+1!


----------



## Linkoiram

I have iem tips that fit perfectly for the kz ate and I get a seal with them

My kz atrs, however, do not seal basically at all. I tried like 30 different tips that I had from various old iems, and the only ones that fit are the ones that I use on the ate. 

 I want two pairs of tips that work well so if I lose the ate then the atr isn't screwed up

Tl;dr are there any specific tips that work well on the kz ate or atr? When I use other tips the headphones won't go in all the way or won't seal if they do. 

I already ordered Chinese spinfits as well, I'm waiting on them


----------



## WilliamCruz

SomeTechNoob said:


> haha
> 
> for a <$25 iem?
> 
> nah.  I personally can't hear any major difference between the silver kz cable and the stock cable anyway - I purchased it for the looks and more flexible cable anyway.


it's also more comfy on the ear


----------



## Slater

Linkoiram said:


> I already ordered Chinese spinfits as well, I'm waiting on them



Chinese spinfits? Got a link?


----------



## Audiotistic (Jun 19, 2017)

Linkoiram said:


> I have iem tips that fit perfectly for the kz ate and I get a seal with them
> 
> My kz atrs, however, do not seal basically at all. I tried like 30 different tips that I had from various old iems, and the only ones that fit are the ones that I use on the ate.
> 
> ...



Have you tried comply foam tips, double or triple flange tips, sony hybrids, or jvc spiral dots?  I didn't really like the sound of my ate's until I found the right tips, which were some red ones from an old set of htc oem earbuds (came with my m8 I think).  After I tried those one, I got a better seal and it opened up the highs and became a lot clearer.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Ive just ordered some of the small ED7's to replace my recently broken ED9's, which i was using as a replacement for my ED10's that broke.


How do the ED7s sound compare to the ED10s or ED9s? Im looking for deep wobbly sub bass and a strong kick drum


----------



## Viber

i didn't find anything interesting about the KZ bluetooth *adapter\cable*...
Does it work with the ZS3? does it have memory wire as well?  anyone tried it and know battery life and sound quality of of that thing?


----------



## Mellowship

Oh the cables again... Well, I just bought the ZS5 + silver cable, not thinking about the sound differences but because my ZS3 cable is failing, and this is a way to get a substitution and a new iem! Can't wait for them to arrive.
As for the tips, lately I have been using memory foams from aliexpress. Some sellers have good quality ones, similar to comply's, with a rubbery inner sleeve. Moreover, they ship various sizes. The T400/500 fit all KZ iems, except for the ED7, which uses T200. Sony iems generally also use T200. T100 are for the Shures. Also, I noticed that those black foamies from ali are slightly different from the coloured ones, with the former being softer and more confortable. I use a combination of red on the right shell and blue on the left. They compress well and evenly, like memory foam should, and return slowly to their form, allowing to adapt greatly to the ear canals. You can get some 10 pairs or more of those tips on ali for about 8 USD.
The star tips from KZ are also good and I've been using them with my ED9. Great combination!


----------



## Linkoiram

slaterlovesspam said:


> Chinese spinfits? Got a link?


SpinFit CP100 In-ear Earphones Eartip
http://s.aliexpress.com/YnE7nyMZ


----------



## Shinry

ZS5 has come to the official KZ-Store:
https://de.aliexpress.com/store/pro...In-Ear-Headset-Noise/1358152_32817080129.html
Darn pricey at 45$


----------



## To.M

They must be kidding, you can get ZS5 for about 24 USD now.


----------



## khighly

Shinry said:


> ZS5 has come to the official KZ-Store:
> https://de.aliexpress.com/store/pro...In-Ear-Headset-Noise/1358152_32817080129.html
> Darn pricey at 45$



Looks like a new microphone?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Viber said:


> i didn't find anything interesting about the KZ bluetooth *adapter\cable*...
> Does it work with the ZS3? does it have memory wire as well?  anyone tried it and know battery life and sound quality of of that thing?



Have ordered yesterday, will pass on feedback when arrives.

There are two versions, as ZST version and a ZS5/ ZS3, so they do distinguish the different models


----------



## Shinry

khighly said:


> Looks like a new microphone?



I recall someone asked the shopowner and was told there would be delays because of changes. Though this looks like the one in every other AE-shop.


----------



## bjaardker

So, are there other options for cables out there on the ZS5 other than the silver and the stock cable?


----------



## kokakolia

Chief Stringer said:


> Ive just ordered some of the small ED7's to replace my recently broken ED9's, which i was using as a replacement for my ED10's that broke.
> 
> 
> How do the ED7s sound compare to the ED10s or ED9s? Im looking for deep wobbly sub bass and a strong kick drum



Nope! You won't get deep kick bass. The bass on the ED7 is actually kinda shy. They focus more vocals.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> i didn't find anything interesting about the KZ bluetooth *adapter\cable*...
> Does it work with the ZS3? does it have memory wire as well?  anyone tried it and know battery life and sound quality of of that thing?



It's been reported from HF owners that the battery life is abysmal. Something like a few hours (I can't remember the exact number, but it was between 2 and 4).

Sound quality should be typical bluetooth. Not sure about the memory wire.


----------



## Slater

Linkoiram said:


> SpinFit CP100 In-ear Earphones Eartip
> http://s.aliexpress.com/YnE7nyMZ



Hmm, isn't $5 for 1 pair (or $10 for a pack or 3 pairs) the same as anywhere else (Amazon, ebay, etc)?


----------



## Slater

To.M said:


> They must be kidding, you can get ZS5 for about 24 USD now.



Yeah, the official store is always higher than everyone else, no matter what IEM you buy from there. It makes no sense. They should be dirt cheap compared to others.

The only advantage I see of buying from them is a guarantee of a genuine product, but so far KZ fakes have not been a problem. That could change at some point though.

I have bought from them a few times though, and they're trustworthy and have good service.


----------



## Slater (Jun 19, 2017)

bjaardker said:


> So, are there other options for cables out there on the ZS5 other than the silver and the stock cable?



Stock KZ cable, silver plated KZ cable, gold plated KZ cable, and 3 different bluetooth cables (3rd party Chinese, official KZ, and Tingo).


----------



## Slater (Jun 19, 2017)

Chief Stringer said:


> Ive just ordered some of the small ED7's to replace my recently broken ED9's, which i was using as a replacement for my ED10's that broke.
> 
> How do the ED7s sound compare to the ED10s or ED9s? Im looking for deep wobbly sub bass and a strong kick drum



ED7 are pretty light on the bass.

If you're looking for deep bass and strong kicks, I would get the ZS3 or EDSE. You can't go wrong with either.

What about another pair of ED9? You should still be able to find plenty of them. I modded my ED9, and they have killer bass compared to stock - clean, strong, deep.


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> It's been reported from HF owners that the battery life is abysmal. Something like a few hours (I can't remember the exact number, but it was between 2 and 4).
> 
> Sound quality should be typical bluetooth. Not sure about the memory wire.



Really? are you sure you are not confusing impressions about the BT cable with impressions regarding the KZ HDSE?

Or maybe both are using the same remote/battery/dac ....


----------



## Slater (Jun 19, 2017)

Viber said:


> Really? are you sure you are not confusing impressions about the BT cable with impressions regarding the KZ HDSE?
> 
> Or maybe both are using the same remote/battery/dac ....



Yes, really. Not confused. And no, they use different technologies. The HDSE used 2 super-capacitors (1 in each earpiece). The ZSx bluetooth cable uses a small li-ion battery in the wire control pod.

*Update:* It seems there are actually 3 bluetooth cables - 1 from a 3rd party Chinese (black color), an official KZ cable (also black), and a nice braided/clear one from Tingo.

The one with the terrible battery life is the 3rd party Chinese (black color) one. The other 2 were only recently released, and I haven't seen anyone on HF that has reported in after buying 1 yet. So the quality and battery life of the official KZ and Tingos are unknown.

Here's photos of the official KZ and Tingo cables:

Official KZ:




Tingo: https://world.taobao.com/item/541481571103.htm


----------



## Chief Stringer

slaterlovesspam said:


> ED7 are pretty light on the bass.
> 
> If you're looking for deep bass and strong kicks, I would get the ZS3 or EDSE. You can't go wrong with either.
> 
> What about another pair of ED9? You should still be able to find plenty of them. I modded my ED9, and they have killer bass compared to stock - clean, strong, deep.



Okay thanks buddy, I also ordered a pair of ED2 aswell which are the same as the EDSE? I own a pair of ZS3s they are just not really suitable for what im using them for (i use earphones at work, i need something i can easily just take in and out without having to put cables over my ears).

And please tell me of your magic ways regarding the ED9 mod?

Hope kz start making the ED10s again, i had a couple of issues with them when i first got them but ive really come to love them, they bass is so nice for what i listen too


----------



## Chief Stringer

kokakolia said:


> Nope! You won't get deep kick bass. The bass on the ED7 is actually kinda shy. They focus more vocals.



Okay thanks i read of a few people that they were as bass heavy as the ates with more sparkle in the top end hence ordering them, i guess its subjective and people have different ideas of what bass heavy is,


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> Looks like a new microphone?



Indeed that's a new mic.  So they went back to the old 1 button mic?  I'm glad I got the first batch then...but maybe there were too many QC issues and they changed it to the simple one.


----------



## Squalo

That one button mic cable for ZS5 is in the picture on Gearbest too. Not sure why they would do that. 


Chief Stringer said:


> Okay thanks buddy, I also ordered a pair of ED2 aswell which are the same as the EDSE? I own a pair of ZS3s they are just not really suitable for what im using them for (i use earphones at work, i need something i can easily just take in and out without having to put cables over my ears).
> 
> And please tell me of your magic ways regarding the ED9 mod?
> 
> Hope kz start making the ED10s again, i had a couple of issues with them when i first got them but ive really come to love them, they bass is so nice for what i listen too


Maybe worth looking into QKZ DM7 and X10. They're probably variants of ED10. QKZ had a model ED11 that was a special version of ED10. (sounding different) DM7 and X10 are likely variations with the M added just to make them look like Marshall earphones. I promise nothing, as i havn't heard any of them, but worth doing a search. They're $5-6.


----------



## ricemanhk

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yes, really. Not confused. And no, they use different technologies. The HDSE used 2 super-capacitors (1 in each earpiece). The ZSx bluetooth cable uses a small li-ion battery in the wire control pod.
> 
> *Update:* It seems there are actually 3 bluetooth cables - 1 from a 3rd party Chinese (black color), an official KZ cable (also black), and a nice braided/clear one from Tingo.
> 
> The one with the terrible battery life is the 3rd party Chinese (black color) one. The other 2 were only recently released, and I haven't seen anyone on HF that has reported in after buying 1 yet. So the quality and battery life of the official KZ and Tingos are unknown.



The short battery life (2-3hrs) I mentioned before was the official KZ cable, coming from the comments in the taobao page.  I think for any of these BT cables, the problem will be that the battery can only be in the mic control.  Dedicated BT earbuds will have some additional cells in the earbud itself which greatly enhances battery life.

The tingo one seems a little better, 3-4hrs battery life.  Downside is the huge remote (to hold the battery) and some have mentioned skipping/connection issues.


----------



## acia

Squalo said:


> That one button mic cable for ZS5 is in the picture on Gearbest too. Not sure why they would do that.
> 
> Maybe worth looking into QKZ DM7 and X10. They're probably variants of ED10. QKZ had a model ED11 that was a special version of ED10. (sounding different) DM7 and X10 are likely variations with the M added just to make them look like Marshall earphones. I promise nothing, as i havn't heard any of them, but worth doing a search. They're $5-6.


QC issue. Mine DOA.  Got new one button as well.


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> The short battery life (2-3hrs) I mentioned before was the official KZ cable, coming from the comments in the taobao page.  I think for any of these BT cables, the problem will be that the battery can only be in the mic control.  Dedicated BT earbuds will have some additional cells in the earbud itself which greatly enhances battery life.
> 
> The tingo one seems a little better, 3-4hrs battery life.  Downside is the huge remote (to hold the battery) and some have mentioned skipping/connection issues.



Good to know I wasn't completely on crack. I'll commit the 2-3hr figure to memory. Sucks that it's with the official cable KZ though :0(


----------



## Slater (Jun 20, 2017)

Squalo said:


> Maybe worth looking into QKZ DM7 and X10. They're probably variants of ED10. QKZ had a model ED11 that was a special version of ED10. (sounding different) DM7 and X10 are likely variations with the M added just to make them look like Marshall earphones. I promise nothing, as i havn't heard any of them, but worth doing a search. They're $5-6.



I stand corrected. ED10 is different than model.


----------



## Slater (Jun 20, 2017)

Chief Stringer said:


> Okay thanks buddy, I also ordered a pair of ED2 aswell which are the same as the EDSE? I own a pair of ZS3s they are just not really suitable for what im using them for (i use earphones at work, i need something i can easily just take in and out without having to put cables over my ears).
> 
> And please tell me of your magic ways regarding the ED9 mod?
> 
> Hope kz start making the ED10s again, i had a couple of issues with them when i first got them but ive really come to love them, they bass is so nice for what i listen too



The EDSE is a retuned and modified ED2 - it is not the same.

I modded the EDSE also. Details are here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1108#post-13353620

Re-reading that post, I came off a little harsh on the stock EDSE. It is a very decent v-shaped sounding KZ in its stock form, & is a no-brainer for the price. It's just when I modded it, it sounds sooo much better in comparison.

The same story on the ED9 - you just don't know how much better something can sound (or rather what you were missing) until you hit pay dirt with mods.

For the mods on the ED9, I took the shiny gold filter, removed the small blob of acoustic foam that's inside the filter, loosely filled the whole shiny gold nozzle with fiberfill instead, and completely sealed up the 2 open grilles on the back (tape or bluetac works, but I used Lazer Bond). It got rid of the overly tinny brightness, making the treble clear and smooth, and the bass improved significantly - so clean & hard-hitting; it's just phenomenal. Modded, it's one of the favorite IEMs in my collection - easily in my top 3.

If you like the sound signature of the ZS3, you'll like the EDSE (modded or not), as well as the modded ED9. And as you mentioned, you won't have to deal with the behind=the-ear cable of the ZS3. Both the EDSE and ED9 just pop right in and out. The EDSE is built like a tank too.

PS - if you can'f find the EDSE, do NOT get the ED4 thinking it is better. The ED4 is hands down one of the worst if not the worst KZs made. Fitment sucks, and the sound is even worse. It's good for turning into a cat toy and that's about it.

Also, there is a similar looking model as the EDSE called the EDR1. Both have the polished black chrome exterior, but from what I can gather they do indeed use different drivers:

- EDR1 is listed as having a "2nd generation 8mm upgraded driver", 18ohms impedance
- ED Special Edition is reported to have a "7mm double-magnet imported Japanese CCAW driver", 16ohms impedance


----------



## zato23

I bought the kz bluetooth cable from the first moment i saw on aliexpress on 27/04 and received it at 31/05
The battery life of the cable i have is less than hour on maximum volume playing youtube video also the signal reception is not very good
I talked with seller and he told me that there was som QC issues and that why kz stopped production to solve that issues 
now they are selling the new version without that issues 
He offered me to resend the newer version but i prefered refund .


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> You are correct sir - just variants of ED10 except with an M.



They're much warmer and bassier than the ED10. Just an fyi. I had it and gave it away.


----------



## Keller2

B9Scrambler said:


> They're much warmer and bassier than the ED10. Just an fyi. I had it and gave it away.


Crap, i've ordered $35 worth of QKZ across 6 IEMs and both the DM7 and X10 are in there.


----------



## Viber

zato23 said:


> I bought the kz bluetooth cable from the first moment i saw on aliexpress on 27/04 and received it at 31/05
> The battery life of the cable i have is less than hour on maximum volume playing youtube video also the signal reception is not very good
> I talked with seller and he told me that there was som QC issues and that why kz stopped production to solve that issues
> now they are selling the new version without that issues
> He offered me to resend the newer version but i prefered refund .



That's good to know!
Anyway to distinguish between the old version and the new one?


----------



## SpiderNhan

ZS5 is on sale for $19.99 on GearBest. That was quick.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/gearbests-headphones-thread.832367/page-12#post-13555524


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> They're much warmer and bassier than the ED10. Just an fyi. I had it and gave it away.



Thanks for the correction. The pair I had sounded similar from what I remembered, but I did not have the ED10 at that time to directly A/B. I was just going by memory.


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> Thanks for the correction. The pair I had sounded similar from what I remembered, but I did not have the ED10 at that time to directly A/B. I was just going by memory.



I was pretty disappointed in them tbh. That said, I did try a pair a second pair and while it sounded better than the set I had, it was still considerably bassier and warmer. The cable is a major upgrade from the ED10's though so I'll give it that, haha.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> I was pretty disappointed in them tbh. That said, I did try a pair a second pair and while it sounded better than the set I had, it was still considerably bassier and warmer. The cable is a major upgrade from the ED10's though so I'll give it that, haha.



I was definitely shocked that they had so much bass despite coming with wide-bore turbo tips. Tip rolling would have only increased the bass *more*.

Oh well, the guy that bought them said they sounded fine to him, so all was well.


----------



## Slater (Jun 20, 2017)

Keller2 said:


> Crap, i've ordered $35 worth of QKZ across 6 IEMs and both the DM7 and X10 are in there.



What other QKZ models did you order?

The DM9 is decent, and the W1 Pro is OK once modded. The rest that I've either owned or heard have turned me off of the QKZ line altogether. But I haven't heard every model they make so it's possible there still could be a hidden gem in their lineup.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

slaterlovesspam said:


> Stock KZ cable, silver plated KZ cable, gold plated KZ cable, and 3 different bluetooth cables (3rd party Chinese, official KZ, and Tingo).



Can you show me where you found the 3rd party and the Tingo one, have only found (and ordered) the official one!


----------



## CardigdanWalk

zato23 said:


> I bought the kz bluetooth cable from the first moment i saw on aliexpress on 27/04 and received it at 31/05
> The battery life of the cable i have is less than hour on maximum volume playing youtube video also the signal reception is not very good
> I talked with seller and he told me that there was som QC issues and that why kz stopped production to solve that issues
> now they are selling the new version without that issues
> He offered me to resend the newer version but i prefered refund .



Which seller? Really worried the one I just bought is the old version!


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> Can you show me where you found the 3rd party and the Tingo one, have only found (and ordered) the official one!



I only ever saw the 3rd party posted on HF. I remember the links were to Aliexpress though.

As far as the Tingo one, I posted the Taobao link right above the photo.


----------



## toddy0191

SpiderNhan said:


> ZS5 is on sale for $19.99 on GearBest. That was quick.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/gearbests-headphones-thread.832367/page-12#post-13555524



That's a crazy price!  Thanks for sharing as my daughter wants a grey pair.

Don't think I've enjoyed a new pair of earphones as much as the ZS5 in a long while.  Tried amping them with my fiio e6 out of my xduoo X3 today and they benefit from a bit of extra power IMO.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

slaterlovesspam said:


> I only ever saw the 3rd party posted on HF. I remember the links were to Aliexpress though.
> 
> As far as the Tingo one, I posted the Taobao link right above the photo.



Just seen that, cheers.

Although it sells it as a ZS5/ ZS3/ZS5 as a single choice ... I was under the impression the ZST was different to ZS3/ZS5, particularly as AliExpress sellers for the offficial one make you choose which of these two it's for?


----------



## Chief Stringer

Squalo said:


> That one button mic cable for ZS5 is in the picture on Gearbest too. Not sure why they would do that.
> 
> Maybe worth looking into QKZ DM7 and X10. They're probably variants of ED10. QKZ had a model ED11 that was a special version of ED10. (sounding different) DM7 and X10 are likely variations with the M added just to make them look like Marshall earphones. I promise nothing, as i havn't heard any of them, but worth doing a search. They're $5-6.





B9Scrambler said:


> They're much warmer and bassier than the ED10. Just an fyi. I had it and gave it away.



Thanks dudes, Scrambler do you know what the differences if any are between those two QKZ's? I dont really like the M on the side but i still have some broken pairs of ED10s laying around so i could easily just remove the plates with the M on and replace them with the ones on the ED10s


----------



## B9Scrambler

Chief Stringer said:


> Thanks dudes, Scrambler do you know what the differences if any are between those two QKZ's? I dont really like the M on the side but i still have some broken pairs of ED10s laying around so i could easily just remove the plates with the M on and replace them with the ones on the ED10s



I only had the DM7. Maybe the X10 is the same thing but with a mic? Really couldn't say, sorry. The DM7 wasn't bad btw, just nothing special. I have a ton of iems with the same basic signature, hence why I gave them away.


----------



## ForceMajeure

Don't know if it was published here yet.
here are a few ZS5 plots. (grey are raw)


----------



## HiFiChris

ForceMajeure said:


> Don't know if it was published here yet.
> here are a few ZS5 plots. (grey are raw)



Thanks for posting! Seems like my measurements aren't too far off (however my compensation isn't perfect yet and subtracts a bit too much at 3 and 6 kHz).


On a related note: am I the only one who happened to receive the ZS5 with a silver cable that had inverted channels and inverted polarity on one side?


----------



## vladstef

HiFiChris said:


> Thanks for posting! Seems like my measurements aren't too far off (however my compensation isn't perfect yet and subtracts a bit too much at 3 and 6 kHz).
> 
> 
> On a related note: am I the only one who happened to receive the ZS5 with a silver cable that had inverted channels and inverted polarity on one side?


A few pages back, there were people complaining about that same issue. It's KZ, it is to be expected...


----------



## Holypal

ForceMajeure said:


> Don't know if it was published here yet.
> here are a few ZS5 plots. (grey are raw)



The FR plot sounds bassy.


----------



## khighly (Jun 21, 2017)

ForceMajeure said:


> Don't know if it was published here yet.
> here are a few ZS5 plots. (grey are raw)




So the ZS5's are the ZST's in a different shell? Is this a bad graph? Maybe why they're quickly coming down in price to near the ZST.

Here's another ZS5 graph.


----------



## Francisk (Jun 28, 2017)

I just received my ZS5 today and I confirm that my set is out of phase. If your ZS5 have the same out of phase issue, this method will fix the phase issue with very little fuss.

If you have inserted both the  cables with the "L" and "R" facing outwards of the IEM, which is actually the correct way with the inner groove lined up with the IEM's pinhole groove but unfortunately on my set, this correct method of insertion produce an out of phase sound. I've found out that the only way to solve this out of phase issue is to have cable "L" inserted with the "L" facing outwards of the IEM and the other cable "R" inserted with the letter "R" facing inwards of the IEM. Remember not to insert both cables with the "L" and "R" both facing outwards or both facing inwards. This will cause the ZS5 to go out of phase.

After fixing this problem, I'm able to enjoy the wonderful sound of the ZS5 to it's full potential without that weird out of phase issue. I hope that this simple solution will help those who have the same out of phase issue on their ZS5.

ZS5 is truly a gem of a performer at it's asking price, with nice extended highs and clear mids though it sounds a bit U shape to me with a higher tilt at the lower frequencies. My only complaint is that the bass frequency is a little too accentuated and it tends to mask out the details of the rest of the frequency spectrum, though it's not accentuated to an unbearable point where it kills the mids (bass-head level). Soundstage is fairly good. If there's anything they can improve on, it will be a tighter and more controlled bass and a little taming of high frequency peaks without killing the high extension on their next improved version. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion.

I did some tip rolling and I get the best results with the Comply T400 tips (M size, one size smaller than my regular L size) smoothing out the high frequency peaks and attenuating and tightening the low frequencies.


----------



## trumpethead

Got my ZS5 a couple of days ago and upon first listen I was highly disappointed. They just didn't sound right, not out of phase but very weak in all frequencies. Vocals very distant. So I let then burn for 48 hours and no real change. Then I amped them with my little Fiio E6...There It Is!!! They came to life and I am now listening to the best KZ Iem that I own! More detailed impressions will follow but obviously these need some juice to sound their best...


----------



## toddy0191

trumpethead said:


> Got my ZS5 a couple of days ago and upon first listen I was highly disappointed. They just didn't sound right, not out of phase but very weak in all frequencies. Vocals very distant. So I let then burn for 48 hours and no real change. Then I amped them with my little Fiio E6...There It Is!!! They came to life and I am now listening to the best KZ Iem that I own! More detailed impressions will follow but obviously these need some juice to sound their best...


 
I experienced the same improvement amped with E6 out of my xduoo X3.

Wonder if the phase issue is the fault of the cable or the earpiece,?


----------



## VinceHill24

toddy0191 said:


> Wonder if the phase issue is the fault of the cable or the earpiece,?


 Could be both ways but if the fault is with IEM, it should be imemdiately noticed even without switching to the silver cable so it's likely the fault of the cable. But of course if one owns both ZS3 & ZS5, it'd be much easier to test it out.


----------



## Francisk (Jun 21, 2017)

toddy0191 said:


> I experienced the same improvement amped with E6 out of my xduoo X3.
> 
> Wonder if the phase issue is the fault of the cable or the earpiece,?



I think the phase issue lies in the internal wiring of the IEM itself because I tried both the stock cable and the silver cable with the same result. It's very unlikely that 2 different cables have the same fault.


----------



## Francisk

VinceHill24 said:


> Could be both ways but if the fault is with IEM, it should be imemdiately noticed even without switching to the silver cable so it's likely the fault of the cable. But of course if one owns both ZS3 & ZS5, it'd be much easier to test it out.



VinceHill24, I'd like to point out that the only fault with one of the IEM is that it's internally wired out of phase inside the IEM. There's nothing wrong with the IEM itself. After changing the pin polarity on one of the IEM, everything is perfectly in phase and the ZS5 works perfectly fine without any other flaws. I'm of course referring to my ZS5 that has this phase issue and not implying that all ZS5 have phase issue.


----------



## Francisk (Jun 21, 2017)

trumpethead said:


> Got my ZS5 a couple of days ago and upon first listen I was highly disappointed. They just didn't sound right, not out of phase but very weak in all frequencies. Vocals very distant. So I let then burn for 48 hours and no real change. Then I amped them with my little Fiio E6...There It Is!!! They came to life and I am now listening to the best KZ Iem that I own! More detailed impressions will follow but obviously these need some juice to sound their best...



I totally agree with you trumpethead, the ZS5 truly benefit from amping and definitely with some tip rolling too. The stock tips are terrible sounding with too much high frequency peaks. I get the best result from the large Spin Fit tips. The Comply TSX200 is equally good too, if you don't mind a tad more attenuation of the high frequencies.


----------



## groucho69

Francisk said:


> I think the phase issue lies in the internal wiring of the IEM itself because I tried both the stock cable and the silver cable with the same result. It's very unlikely that 2 different cables have the same fault.



It is not that unlikely if the same shop makes both. You can be ISO compliant if you keep making the same error from the drawings, until there is a change order.


----------



## Francisk

groucho69 said:


> It is not that unlikely if the same shop makes both. You can be ISO compliant if you keep making the same error from the drawings, until there is a change order.



You may be right groucho69. To be sure, just check the polarity of the cable and you'll be able to conclude.


----------



## vladstef

Francisk said:


> VinceHill24, I'd like to point out that the only fault with one of the IEM is that it's internally wired out of phase inside the IEM. There's nothing wrong with the IEM itself. After changing the pin polarity on one of the IEM, everything is perfectly in phase and the ZS5 works perfectly fine without any other flaws. I'm of course referring to my ZS5 that has this phase issue and not implying that all ZS5 have phase issue.


I am about to receive a ZS5, but I've never had any phasing issues with audio equipment of any kind... I assume that it isn't hard to detect if one side isn't correctly in phase, but is it hard to detect if both sides are inverted? So, if it sounds wrong in a way, changing one side's polarity can make them both correct or both incorrect - is there a difference between the two and if perhaps the difference is small, what would be the best way to detect it? I've read that the bass is much weaker if both are inverted, but the article was orientated towards speakers, not headphones.


----------



## aleksanderp

You can use this to check if one side is inverted, under wiring center/twisted:

http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## Francisk

vladstef said:


> I am about to receive a ZS5, but I've never had any phasing issues with audio equipment of any kind... I assume that it isn't hard to detect if one side isn't correctly in phase, but is it hard to detect if both sides are inverted? So, if it sounds wrong in a way, changing one side's polarity can make them both correct or both incorrect - is there a difference between the two and if perhaps the difference is small, what would be the best way to detect it? I've read that the bass is much weaker if both are inverted, but the article was orientated towards speakers, not headphones.


If you really want to know, I've been involved in the audio industry long enough to tell if anything is out of phase by listening...if that answers your doubts or questions.


----------



## VinceHill24

vladstef said:


> I've read that the bass is much weaker if both are inverted, but the article was orientated towards speakers, not headphones.


 well the same applies to headphones too. I've tried connecting cables wrongly and it does sounds off and the bass is like not there and the whole thing sounds like a mess that's harsh and trebly. I have soldered wrongly before some dynamic driver too and it resulted in this same kind of off sound too with almost no bass. I believe it'll be very easily detectable for anyone.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 21, 2017)

Thank you for quick answers, I assumed that something like this would be quite noticeable. I just can't believe that a mistake like this could happen with so many units, I mean, it is the only thing that people have to worry about when assembling headphones, not to mess up L-R and phase... And ZS5 has 4 drivers per side, you'd think that they've got it together


----------



## bjaardker

Is there any non-KZ made and non Bluetooth cable that will work with the ZS5?


----------



## 1717

Add another to the KZ fan list. Got my ED9 and haven't looked back. Best money I've spent in years!


----------



## VinceHill24

bjaardker said:


> Is there any non-KZ made and non Bluetooth cable that will work with the ZS5?


There are plentiful of custom cable but likely won't fit in 100%. Just get any 2-pin 0.75mm connection cable will do. It will fit in but won't fit tight into the groove.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well after 3 weeks on the slow boat, my KZ ZS5 has arrived in the US.  When it arrives, I'll check my .75mm 2-pin cables to let you all know if any of them give a decent enough fit, or if I notice any changes in sound.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Thank you for quick answers, I assumed that something like this would be quite noticeable. I just can't believe that a mistake like this could happen with so many units, I mean, it is the only thing that people have to worry about when assembling headphones, not to mess up L-R and phase... And ZS5 has 4 drivers per side, you'd think that they've got it together



When you're working 12-14 hours a day and only making a few dollars, it is easy to stop caring about things like soldering every wire in phase.


----------



## ricemanhk

So lesson for us getting KZs...if the sound is weird/off, check the polarity first.  Too many cases now with reversed polarity in one side.

And to one of the posters earlier, if both sides are out of phase, that makes them IN PHASE haha
It doesn't matter which direction they are in, as long as they are the same direction.


----------



## trumpethead

toddy0191 said:


> I experienced the same improvement amped with E6 out of my xduoo X3.
> 
> Wonder if the phase issue is the fault of the cable or the earpiece,?



Man, ZS5 is a Beast once you get the right fit and seal and then amp them. I moved up to my Fiio E11 and almost immediately went on Gearbest to order another pair in blue for the 19.99 special price. With the starline tips the fit is tighter, more snug but the sound quality jumps up a few levels above ZST imo...clearer with more detail and better extension both ways. Soundstage is wide and the instrument separation is very good. For the 23'dollars that I paid I am very pleased...


----------



## bhazard

The ZS5 absolutely destroys the "$99" AKG earphones that came with the Galaxy S8. It's a perfect comparison as to why a lot of us like Chi-Fi.


----------



## toddy0191

bhazard said:


> The ZS5 absolutely destroys the "$99" AKG earphones that came with the Galaxy S8. It's a perfect comparison as to why a lot of us like Chi-Fi.



Agreed. Not a big fan of them TBH.


----------



## Keller2

got the ZS5. Not that impressed vs the ZST. Only the bass response is tightened up. 

Still. I cant be mad @ the price point and price/perf ratio, it's just not the same wow effect the ZST had. 

These deserve a better, metal housing though. In terms of build the ZST are much better. The plastic housing of these is just horrible. 

I might be down to make a CAD drawing of this at some point and getting some better shells machined. ( though im pretty sure they'd cost as much as the 'phones themselves. )


----------



## mehrdadb3

what tips good for zs5 or urbanfun and memt x5 
please give me link.
this tips good for those and what size is good t400 or t100?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...64287.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.4.6F842L


----------



## B9Scrambler

Have to chuckle at the widely varied ZS5 impressions. The housings suck. The housings are great. They're uncomfortable as #$^%. They're the most comfortable KZ yet. Huge step up from the ZST. Not much of a step up from the ZST.


----------



## Saoshyant

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> Have to chuckle at the widely varied ZS5 impressions. The housings suck. The housings are great. They're uncomfortable as #$^%. They're the most comfortable KZ yet. Huge step up from the ZST. Not much of a step up from the ZST.



The common factor is people


----------



## crabdog

mehrdadb3 said:


> what tips good for zs5 or urbanfun and memt x5
> please give me link.
> this tips good for those and what size is good t400 or t100?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...64287.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.4.6F842L


This probably isn't the correct thread for this but I just want to say that the Large Spinfit tips worked best for me with the X5.


----------



## Keller2

B9Scrambler said:


> Have to chuckle at the widely varied ZS5 impressions. The housings suck. The housings are great. They're uncomfortable as #$^%. They're the most comfortable KZ yet. Huge step up from the ZST. Not much of a step up from the ZST.


The housings are horribly built and the finish is quite bad. ATE/ZST/ZS3 all have better build. The seam between the 2 plates  is rough. But that doesnt make them not comfy. What makes them not comfy is that if you dont have enough space on your ear lobe the sharp edge lodges into your ear and makes it sore. I can rotate them and avoid that. 
The gripe here is mostly with the material and not with the shape.

I think i dont like the sound because they increased the mids response, they sound boring compared to the ZS3 and even ZST. 
To put it simply the V shaped frequency is less exaggarated - flatter. I personally find that a negative. Others might like it.

I like the increased midbass and the tamed down sibilance, but the more prominent mids are killing any improvement those brought.


It also might be that i'm listening to these unamped through my motherboard.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 22, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> Have to chuckle at the widely varied ZS5 impressions. The housings suck. The housings are great. They're uncomfortable as #$^%. They're the most comfortable KZ yet. Huge step up from the ZST. Not much of a step up from the ZST.


The problem is that people expect them to be built as well as they sound. It is obvious that KZ is about mass production rather than refinement, but that is why we get them at this price. So, there are units with wrong phase, inverted L-R channels, probably units with some of the 8 drivers not even working or not properly soldered - I suspect that this may be the reason why many praise its sound, while some don't see it as much better than ZST, and same goes about how the build feels, how they fit, how the memory wire isn't good etc. It is a small risk-high reward, and given that you can get them for around 20$ at this point, all of these issues are not worth stressing about until you receive a pair. I just don't see why they didn't make them 50% more expensive (30$ total) with better (original design!!) shells and at least some quality control. That would've been a game changer. There are <5$ earphones with better looking plastic seams, just saying.


----------



## Keller2

vladstef said:


> The problem is that people expect them to be built as well as they sound. It is obvious that KZ is about mass production rather than refinement, but that is why we get them at this price. So, there are units with wrong phase, inverted L-R channels, probably units with some of the 8 drivers not even working or not properly soldered - I suspect that this may be the reason why many praise its sound, while some don't see it as much better than ZST, and same goes about how the build feels, how they fit, how the memory wire isn't good etc. It is a small risk-high reward, and given that you can get them for around 20$ at this point, all of these issues are not worth stressing about until you receive a pair. I just don't see why they didn't make them 50% more expensive (30$ total) with better (original design!!) shells and at least some quality control. That would've been a game changer. There are <5$ earphones with better looking plastic seams, just saying.



Also remember, KZ makes the ED9, a fully metal set for just $10. There's no reason to be using plastic this bad.


----------



## Francisk (Jun 25, 2017)

My new discovery...FitEar's double flange tips pair very well with the ZS5. High frequency peaks are tamed to a more balanced level and mids are more forward now. Seriously, the high frequency peaks of the ZS5 need to be tamed down a little but without losing the high frequency extension.

PS: The best combination for me finally is the large Comply T400 tips


----------



## vladstef

Keller2 said:


> Also remember, KZ makes the ED9, a fully metal set for just $10. There's no reason to be using plastic this bad.


Yeah, despite the fact that ED9 also had its fair share of build related issues with many units, it is in a different league compared to ZS5. I have nothing against plastic though, if properly treated, it is durable and lightweight. My se215 went through years of abuse and torture without a single mark on them.
On a different note, why so much glue inside ZS5? I just don't see any logical reason for it...


----------



## Francisk

I'm sure KZ can make metal housing for ZS5 but then it will cost $100 then we'll have everybody complaining that it's too expensive....lol. Boy...it's hard to please everybody all of the time :-D

To be honest I'm fine with good plastic housing just as long as it sounds GOOD )


----------



## aleksanderp

The measurements posted a few pages ago show not much difference from ZST, and there is also a placebo effect measurement hidden in there too


----------



## toddy0191

B9Scrambler said:


> Have to chuckle at the widely varied ZS5 impressions. The housings suck. The housings are great. They're uncomfortable as #$^%. They're the most comfortable KZ yet. Huge step up from the ZST. Not much of a step up from the ZST.



Just the many versions of reality that we all experience. Who's right though?


----------



## Keller2

Francisk said:


> I'm sure KZ can make metal housing for ZS5 but then it will cost $100 then we'll have everybody complaining that it's too expensive....lol. Boy...it's hard to please everybody all of the time :-D
> 
> To be honest I'm fine with good plastic housing just as long as it sounds GOOD )


I gaurantee you, even if they CNC Machined the shells out of solid titanium and them applied enamel paint it'd at most jack up the price to 2x what it is now.


----------



## vladstef

aleksanderp said:


> The measurements posted a few pages ago show not much difference from ZST, and there is also a placebo effect measurement hidden in there too


But there are reviewers who say that there is monumental difference in soundstage that is immediately noticeable, and then more things become apparent when directly comparing them. KZ is not a company that needs false advertising, they are already settled in budget IEM space. Also, don't blindly trust fr. response graphs because they are proven to be inconsistent (scientifically, they can be way off mark, look at what happened to Sony MDR-Z1R) and so many things shape the sound waves before they reach their destination. They just show the general balance of the sound and point towards peaks, which will be shifted/changed from person to person - equipment to equipment.


----------



## aleksanderp

Having been on Headfi for a few years I would actually trust FR measurement on the same rig much more than different people's impression, especially when impressions are so widely diverging. The Z1R measurements are pretty consistently showing a peak at 10k, if you look outside of HF, but don't want to go off topic.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Wow....that statement seems to have ruffled some feathers. I just thought it was interesting how varied opinions were. Generally they're pretty consistent with a few outliers here and there, but with the ZS5 things are swinging around like a pendulum with lots of momentum. If I didn't already own them I'd personally be holding off for a while to await some consistency in impressions.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> If I didn't already own them I'd personally be holding off for a while to await some consistency in impressions.



That's what I'm doing. I've managed to stay well away from the hype train, even in the face of Gearbest's tempting $19.99 price.

Except I'm also waiting for consistency in quality not just impressions. These QC issues remind me of the initial releases of the ZS3 among other KZ IEMs that had initial problems. Just like those IEMs, I expect KZ to correct the QC issues and possibly even quietly revise the sound, slipping in a 2nd version that will have all of the kinks worked out.

Good thing I have the K3 Pro to keep me perfectly happy until that point (or until the ZSR Pro comes out; whichever comes 1st).

The sucky thing about the ZS5 cable miswiring QC issues is that it also affects the ZS3 and ZST. I need to go back and check all of my cables on those IEMs (stock and silver plated).


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> Yeah, despite the fact that ED9 also had its fair share of build related issues with many units, it is in a different league compared to ZS5. I have nothing against plastic though, if properly treated, it is durable and lightweight. My se215 went through years of abuse and torture without a single mark on them.
> On a different note, why so much glue inside ZS5? I just don't see any logical reason for it...



ED9 is still one of my all-time favorite KZs (specifically, my modded one). The massive weight is the only downside, but I'll take that tank-like build over every plastic-fantastic IEMs out there.

As far as the pound of glue inside of the ZS5; I can only assume they got a discount on a trainload of glue and wanted to put it to good use LOL.


----------



## loomisjohnson

scrambler et. al., a number of ali sellers are showing a


vladstef said:


> The problem is that people expect them to be built as well as they sound. It is obvious that KZ is about mass production rather than refinement, but that is why we get them at this price. So, there are units with wrong phase, inverted L-R channels, probably units with some of the 8 drivers not even working or not properly soldered - I suspect that this may be the reason why many praise its sound, while some don't see it as much better than ZST, and same goes about how the build feels, how they fit, how the memory wire isn't good etc. It is a small risk-high reward, and given that you can get them for around 20$ at this point, all of these issues are not worth stressing about until you receive a pair. I just don't see why they didn't make them 50% more expensive (30$ total) with better (original design!!) shells and at least some quality control. That would've been a game changer. There are <5$ earphones with better looking plastic seams, just saying.


 in the abstract, kz should strive for better aesthetics and design, even if it added a few bucks to the cost. in practice, however, i wonder how much of a premium most less-fanatical folks would pay for the enhancements, given kz's position and image as the budget king. that said,i agree that  there's no excuse for the qc issues, whether this zs5 is $20 or $50--it's ultimately cheaper for them to make these things correctly.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> scrambler et. al., a number of ali sellers are showing a



I'm guessing something got cut off here?


----------



## loomisjohnson

sorry--not terribly critical but is the "Kz ed" listed by a number of ali sellers the same as the edse or something different?


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> sorry--not terribly critical but is the "Kz ed" listed by a number of ali sellers the same as the edse or something different?



Far as I know the ED is a reeeeally old model. Released before the EDse. I was under the impression the EDse was the upgraded version. Maybe it's being re-released with new tuning? Never know with KZ.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> Far as I know the ED is a reeeeally old model. Released before the EDse. I was under the impression the EDse was the upgraded version. Maybe it's being re-released with new tuning? Never know with KZ.



EDSE is the model with the revised driver and tweaked tuning vs the previous models.

The EDSE is one of the better KZ IEMs - a fun v-shaped "generic KZ" sound signature that is durable and comfortable. It's my defacto go-to when introducing people to KZs, giving as gifts, giving to kids due to the durability, etc.


----------



## goodvibes (Jun 23, 2017)

khighly said:


> Makes it look nice is about all. I find the silver cable to be only slightly more durable than the stock one. Different cables don't change sound quality, especially unshielded cables like these.


IMO, stating as fact, may be inappropriate here unless it's referring to your experience to just this instance. Plenty of cable threads that differ and also agree. I would disagree but realize it depends on level of performance etc. Not looking to argue but wouldn't want newbies to think opinion as fact.

I'm tempted to buy a KZ ZS5 just to hear it. Seems impossibly cheap for what's inside and reviews. 
Can anyone tell me if the bump around 2.3K is noticeable? It would have a glassy nature to the sound Looks rounded enough to be normal IEM bump for presence and not an issue but thought I'd ask. Also is they sound like everything is working well together, (PRAT) beyond just the response? Thanks


----------



## Vidal (Jun 22, 2017)

I've not heard anyone say the ZS5s sound bad and most comments have been very positive especially regarding the soundstage. A typical 'non positive' comment I've seen is that the ZS5 are 'not that big of a step up from the ZST'.

Most people would say that the ZST is a fairly decent earphone it costs about £9. For an extra £6 - £7 you're getting a better earphone than the ZST. Some (me) would argue a lot better earphone. Yes, it's big, 4 drivers with enough space to breathe that's bound to happen.

As for build quality, KZ don't just market to rich westerners. Chances are the ZS5 are priced to sell in China were salaries are far less, they're built to a price for a reason.


----------



## nplateau

My ZS5s just arrived today.  I don't know how to look or listen for phasing issues, etc... I'm using the silver cables with the L and R pointed outwards.  The ZST has made me a little bit more tolerant of sibilance so the ZS5 isn't so bad for me on that level.  On initial listening, (less than 20 minutes) my impression is that these are something of a mix between the ZST and ZS3.  Nice soundstage, but the low end is a bit more wooly and booming than I care for.  I will try replacing the original tips with the wide bore spiral dots to see if that tames the bass a bit.


----------



## Francisk (Jun 22, 2017)

For the asking price, I must say that the ZS5 is truly a performer, especially the end to end frequency extension except for the wooly/blooming bass and high frequency peaks. The high frequency peaks can be tamed by tip rolling but unfortunately the wooly/blooming bass can only be tamed via EQ. I just ordered the revised colorful version of ZST and will compare it with the ZS5 as soon as it arrive. I've owned 2 KZ IEMs in the past eg. KZ EDSE and KZ ATE but I was not impressed by them until the ZS5 arrive. Overall KZ is moving in the right direction but they need to put in more effort to gain more respect eg. to have better quality control to eliminate the out of phase issue (I'm one of the unlucky owners of the out of phase ZS5). Sound wise, they'll need to retune the ZS5 for a tighter and less wooly/blooming low frequency and taming those high frequency peaks but still retaining the high frequency extension. When KZ gets these right, they will be the real giant killer. To be honest, they're not very far off. I'm sure with enough support, we'll be seeing a giant killer in the making soon


----------



## acia

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's what I'm doing. I've managed to stay well away from the hype train, even in the face of Gearbest's tempting $19.99 price.
> 
> Except I'm also waiting for consistency in quality not just impressions. These QC issues remind me of the initial releases of the ZS3 among other KZ IEMs that had initial problems. Just like those IEMs, I expect KZ to correct the QC issues and possibly even quietly revise the sound, slipping in a 2nd version that will have all of the kinks worked out.
> 
> ...


Lucky me, all the zs5 I have bought sound the same to me.


----------



## snip3r77

mehrdadb3 said:


> what tips good for zs5 or urbanfun and memt x5
> please give me link.
> this tips good for those and what size is good t400 or t100?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...64287.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.4.6F842L


I used the jvc spirals . Gave me vacuum level type of seal.


----------



## acia

snip3r77 said:


> I used the jvc spirals . Gave me vacuum level type of seal.


JVC too. But mostly triple flange. 


snip3r77 said:


> I used the jvc spirals . Gave me vacuum level type of seal.


----------



## khighly

Francisk said:


> For the asking price, I must say that the ZS5 is truly a performer, especially the end to end frequency extension except for the wooly/blooming bass and high frequency peaks. The high frequency peaks can be tamed by tip rolling but unfortunately the wooly/blooming bass can only be tamed via EQ. I just ordered the revised colorful version of ZST and will compare it with the ZS5 as soon as it arrive. I've owned 2 KZ IEMs in the past eg. KZ EDSE and KZ ATE but I was not impressed by them until the ZS5 arrive. Overall KZ is moving in the right direction but they need to put in more effort to gain more respect eg. to have better quality control to eliminate the out of phase issue (I'm one of the unlucky owners of the out of phase ZS5). Sound wise, they'll need to retune the ZS5 for a tighter and less wooly/blooming low frequency and taming those high frequency peaks but still retaining the high frequency extension. When KZ gets these right, they will be the real giant killer. To be honest, they're not very far off. I'm sure with enough support, we'll be seeing a giant killer in the making soon



I think the amount of bass is just right. I actually think the bass is the most major improvement over the ZST; there is much further extension. It's bouncy and fun.

This is a great test song for the ZS5:


----------



## TheWongWrong

Well looks like I won't be upgrading from the ZST. ZS5 sounds like a less sibilant ZST which is good but I don't really mind the sibilance on the ZST and I'm not really looking for more bass. Also I just prefer the look of the ZST a lot more. Will see how the ZSR turns out I guess


----------



## TheWongWrong (Jun 23, 2017)

Have tested out the silver cable for a week now, no difference in sound for my ears in my humble opinion. Not that I was expecting any. Going back to the stock cable, it's quite amazing how much it feels like a noodle now lol. New cable is softer and extremely gorgeous and well made especially for the price.


----------



## ricemanhk

TheWongWrong said:


> Well looks like I won't be upgrading from the ZST. ZS5 sounds like a less sibilant ZST which is good but I don't really mind the sibilance on the ZST and I'm not really looking for more bass. Also I just prefer the look of the ZST a lot more. Will see how the ZSR turns out I guess



ZS5 has much better sound stage and instrument separation.  Going back to the ZST things just sound a little muddled.  Extra drivers (that work) usually does that...
Of course the difference isn't totally night and day, but it's significant enough for me for the relatively small absolute price difference.


----------



## TheWongWrong (Jun 23, 2017)

ricemanhk said:


> ZS5 has much better sound stage and instrument separation.  Going back to the ZST things just sound a little muddled.  Extra drivers (that work) usually does that...
> Of course the difference isn't totally night and day, but it's significant enough for me for the relatively small absolute price difference.


 while the price difference is justifiable, I don't see any need at the moment to upgrade. Just happy with the ZST right now . Also seems that the opinion is very divided(although never really negative) and QC is still an issue. If I do get it down the line it will be just for fun I suppose.


----------



## VinceHill24

Bought a KZ bluetooth cable recently and read the user guide to find out this. So ZSR confirmed!!


----------



## vladstef

VinceHill24 said:


> Bought a KZ bluetooth cable recently and read the user guide to find out this. So *ZSR confirmed*!!


OMG YESS!


----------



## geoemm (Jun 23, 2017)

made an eq for zs5 to be used with equalizerApo (win).paste the below line in the config.txt in C:\Program Files\EqualizerAPO\config
GraphicEQ: 48.8 0; 60.6 -0.4; 101.4 -2.1; 140.8 -2.7; 196.5 -3.12; 242.4 -3.2; 291.7 -3.2; 401.2 -3.2; 485.7 -3.32; 664.2 -3.4; 814.7 -3.73; 955.5 -4.18; 1044.8 -4.4; 1210 -4.6; 1314.8 -4.77; 1523.6 -5.19; 1729.6 -5.8; 1952.5 -6.3; 2121.4 -6.6; 2379.6 -6.8; 2861.3 -7.05; 3552.6 -7.01; 3767.2 -6.3; 4015.4 -4.6; 4307.3 -1.9; 4504.1 -0.9; 4650.1 -1.9; 4807.1 -3.09; 5063.9 -4.1; 5594.9 -5.86; 6413.7 -7.72; 8428.4 -9.99



let me know what you guys think


----------



## goodvibes (Jun 23, 2017)

khighly said:


> Wouldn't doubt if the top line of Noble audio products costs about $120 to make. The rest is all marketing to people who think changing unshielded cables makes a difference, and that burn in actually exists.


Or don't use good enough kit to hear it or aren't as discerning? Why these silly crusades in IEM threads? From reports, it seems the silver cable here makes little to no difference on this IEM. I've had very different results with variety of cables on my JH13fp... even if they only cost $120 to make, LOL. Whatever makes you feel good.


----------



## vladstef

We had "ZSR Pro" packaging leaked, and from it deducted that it looked like Campfire Andromeda copy. It ended up being ZS5 instead. What happened then, did they switch names before releasing ZS5, because now we do know that ZSR is coming as well. Maybe they didn't switch names and ZSR is gonna look similar to ZS5. We will find soon enough probably, why would they print that manual if the headset isn't close to being released.


----------



## Vidal

goodvibes said:


> Or don't use good enough kit to hear it or aren't as discerning? Why these silly crusades in IEM threads? From reports, it seems the silver cable here makes little to no difference on this IEM. I've had very different results with variety of cables on my JH13fp... even if they only cost $120 to make, LOL. Whatever makes you feel good.



It makes a difference but it's very very slight, hardly surprising it's a $20 IEM. 

No offence intended but this post comes across a bit 'look at me' with the mention of a +$1000 and $120 cables, LOL? Whatever makes you feel good though.


----------



## Slater

VinceHill24 said:


> Bought a KZ bluetooth cable recently and read the user guide to find out this. So ZSR confirmed!!



So what's your impression on the cable?


----------



## HiFiChris

vladstef said:


> We had "ZSR Pro" packaging leaked, and from it deducted that it looked like Campfire Andromeda copy. It ended up being ZS5 instead. What happened then, did they switch names before releasing ZS5, because now we do know that ZSR is coming as well. Maybe they didn't switch names and ZSR is gonna look similar to ZS5. We will find soon enough probably, why would they print that manual if the headset isn't close to being released.



I guess that the IEMs might look quite similar shape-wise if they do indeed plan to keep the design as it appeared on the (prototype?) packaging. However, due to 5 BA drivers per side (and hopefully at least some kind of crossover, but given that their ZN1 and ZS1 also had a crossover I think and hope that they won't just slam five random BAs inside without any crossovers and dampers), I could imagine that they might be somewhat bulkier.
A different colour or even metal as used material (even if it's only for the faceplate) seems likely, too.


----------



## B9Scrambler

HiFiChris said:


> I guess that the IEMs might look quite similar shape-wise if they do indeed plan to keep the design as it appeared on the (prototype?) packaging. However, due to 5 BA drivers per side (and hopefully at least some kind of crossover, but given that their ZN1 and ZS1 also had a crossover I think and hope that they won't just slam five random BAs inside without any crossovers and dampers), I could imagine that they might be somewhat bulkier.
> A different colour or even metal as used material (even if it's only for the faceplate) seems likely, too.



Only the original ZS1 had a crossover, though the implementation wasn't quite up to snuff. They removed it in later incantations. If they do run with 5BA per side on the ZSR, I really hope they get the tuning right.


----------



## HiFiChris (Jun 24, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> Only the original ZS1 had a crossover, though the implementation wasn't quite up to snuff. They removed it in later incantations. If they do run with 5BA per side on the ZSR, I really hope they get the tuning right.



Damn, I didn't know they removed it in later iterations. I really dislike when companies incorporate acoustic changes without indication.

I'm wondering though why they didn't use the same crossover they used in the ZN1 where it worked well.



ZN1 yellow, ZS1 (with crossover) green.


----------



## VinceHill24

slaterlovesspam said:


> So what's your impression on the cable?


It was just ok. I have not used any bluetooth cable before so i do not have any reference to compare to but if compared to stock cable, the bluetooth just not good in terms of sound quality wise. With the ZS5 connected, the bass becomes even more wooly and loose though somewhat enhanced and some details seemed to be lost. Treble is still there quite bright but it feels less airy as before and the imaging and instrument separation suffered. Of course those are just what i experience, your mileage may vary. On a side note it's pretty lightweight and has an interface that's simple to operate. Battery life wise i'm not sure for such lighweight bluetooth module how long it should last bu reference but ootb without charging, it had lasted me 3 hours + connected to my Note 3 with music playing from poweramp at about 50% volume so i reckon it's pretty good.


----------



## goodvibes (Jun 23, 2017)

Vidal said:


> It makes a difference but it's very very slight, hardly surprising it's a $20 IEM.
> 
> No offence intended but this post comes across a bit 'look at me' with the mention of a +$1000 and $120 cables, LOL? Whatever makes you feel good though.


Not at all. I've since sold the IEMs and cables. Nothing to see here, LOL My current best IEM is a $600 universal with stock cable.


----------



## jaydm99 (Jun 23, 2017)

@slaterlovesspam which one of these SpinFits should I get for the ZS3. I'm not familiar with the ZS3's measurements. As for the stock tips, I'm using the smallest ones.


----------



## Skullophile

My ghetto recipe for testing cables.

Get a dap and plug in a headphone amp, plug in a headphone splitter and plug in one set of iems into one side and the same set with different cable
into the other. Then listen to one iem with cable in one ear and the other in the other ear. If it sounds different on each side then BAM.
If not then BAM. 

Can you feel your I.Q. dropping?

Anyone else caught talking about differences in cables will be asked, by me to take that test..


----------



## Shinry

Skullophile said:


> My ghetto recipe for testing cables.
> 
> Get a dap and plug in a headphone amp, plug in a headphone splitter and plug in one set of iems into one side and the same set with different cable
> into the other. Then listen to one iem with cable in one ear and the other in the other ear. If it sounds different on each side then BAM.
> ...



Though I'm wondering if the bluetooth-connection itself can be at fault due to compression?


----------



## HiFiChris

High quality Bluetooth gear can sound true to the recording/wired connection (for example, the Mass Fidelity Relay was the first Bluetooth DAC that I couldn't tell apart from a wired DAC). However, one should definitely not expect that same level of performance from a cheap, portable Knowledge Zenith IEM cable. I don't know how advanced the Trinity Audio Engineering and LEAR Bluetooth cables are, but I think that they will also be slightly distinguishable from a wired DAC/connection, however probably not as easily as the Knowledge Zenith Bluetooth cable/module.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

VinceHill24 said:


> Bought a KZ bluetooth cable recently and read the user guide to find out this. So ZSR confirmed!!


Nice
How long it take to get to you?


----------



## Slater (Jun 23, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> Damn, I didn't know they removed in it later iterations. I really dislike when companies incorporate acoustic changes without indication



KZ has done that numerous times. And yes, I dislike it as well.



HiFiChris said:


> I'm wondering though why they didn't use the same crossover they used in the ZN1 where it worked well.



I have a ZN1 (both the full size & the Mini), and there's no crossover in either. The full size did have the control box, which allowed digital control over the bass/treble. But unfortunately mine died after a few months of ownership.

Also, Vidal said that the ZN1 Mini is the same internally as the ZS2 (same drivers, no crossover), except the ZS2 has the blue shell.


----------



## Slater (Jun 23, 2017)

VinceHill24 said:


> It was just ok. I have not used any bluetooth cable before so i do not have any reference to compare to but if compared to stock cable, the bluetooth just not good in terms of sound quality wise. With the ZS5 connected, the bass becomes even more wooly and loose though somewhat enhanced and some details seemed to be lost. Treble is still there quite bright but it feels less airy as before and the imaging and instrument separation suffered. Of course those are just what i experience, your mileage may vary. On a side note it's pretty lightweight and has an interface that's simple to operate. Battery life wise i'm not sure for such lighweight bluetooth module how long it should last bu reference but ootb without charging, it had lasted me 3 hours + connected to my Note 3 with music playing from poweramp at about 50% volume so i reckon it's pretty good.



What about disconnect issues? That was reported in the original release but was supposedly corrected.


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> @slaterlovesspam which one of these SpinFits should I get for the ZS3. I'm not familiar with the ZS3's measurements. As for the stock tips, I'm using the smallest ones.



The one for the 3mm nozzle. The 5mm nozzle version will be too loose & will fall off.


----------



## Slater

Skullophile said:


> My ghetto recipe for testing cables.
> 
> Get a dap and plug in a headphone amp, plug in a headphone splitter and plug in one set of iems into one side and the same set with different cable
> into the other. Then listen to one iem with cable in one ear and the other in the other ear. If it sounds different on each side then BAM.
> ...



Gotta listen to a mono recording to rule out any differences between the channels too (then BAM). I've merged the stereo channels on specific test tracks in Audacity for this purpose. I also switch ears after listening to rule out differences ear to ear (which I do have in 1 of my ears). And BAM to that also. LOL


----------



## goodvibes

Skullophile said:


> My ghetto recipe for testing cables.
> 
> Get a dap and plug in a headphone amp, plug in a headphone splitter and plug in one set of iems into one side and the same set with different cable
> into the other. Then listen to one iem with cable in one ear and the other in the other ear. If it sounds different on each side then BAM.
> ...


Test is probably fine as is blind testing which I've done but just so you know, when driving 2 loads, neither will sound the same as driving one. It's like halving the load impedance (same effect as doubling output impedance) and doubling the reactance, and back EMF for the amp to control at the same time.


----------



## Skullophile

What about merge the track to mono, send the same signal from one source to two seperate (and the same model) head amps feeding the two seperate iems? Then wear the blindfold and BAM.


----------



## goodvibes

Skullophile said:


> What about merge the track to mono, send the same signal from one source to two seperate (and the same model) head amps feeding the two seperate iems? Then wear the blindfold and BAM.


Last response to this topic and not technical. How about you just listen to them and if you're not certain, buy the cheaper one. Good advice for any purchase.


----------



## Skullophile

The reason for all that was that now if anyone talks about differences with cables in this thread someone can just cut and paste my last comment and BAM.... 
No more cable talk in this wonderful thread.


----------



## Slater (Jun 23, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> What about merge the track to mono, send the same signal from one source to two seperate (and the same model) head amps feeding the two seperate iems? Then wear the blindfold and BAM.



That works. Or you could always merge to mono MP3, output over splitter, sending 1 channel over bluetooth and the other channel over optical output making sure to use cable lifters so it doesn't absorb any stray electrons or solar radiation, recombine the 2 channels to stereo on receiving end, then convert to flac, send file to yourself in email, open attachment on PC with DAC hooked up via USB, then play file with Beats headphones and *BAM*.

haha



goodvibes said:


> How about you just listen to them and if you're not certain, buy the cheaper one. Good advice for any purchase.



Or that works too LOL!


----------



## HiFiChris (Jun 24, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> The full size [ZN1] did have the control box, which allowed digital control over the bass/treble. But unfortunately mine died after a few months of ownership.




I think mine is still working (I have no idea, I haven't really used it since I bought it even though I thought that I intended to probably write a brief review at some point because that EQ box is a nice idea, however executed not so nicely (placement, weight, popping noise when turning on/off, some mild hissing)), but the battery life is rather poor (but that's what it already was right from the beginning).


----------



## Francisk (Jun 25, 2017)

I've finally settled for the Comply T400 tips which is the perfect pairing for me for the ZS5. It smooths out most of the high frequency peaks of the ZS5. Mids are just nice with the T400 tips and bass is not as bloomy compared to other tips. Please share your best combi.


----------



## groucho69

Skullophile said:


> What about merge the track to mono, send the same signal from one source to two seperate (and the same model) head amps feeding the two seperate iems? Then wear the blindfold and BAM.



Simple solution:


----------



## chi-fi mel

Gearbest has a flash sale on the KZ ZS5 in gray for $19.99


----------



## VinceHill24

CardigdanWalk said:


> Nice
> How long it take to get to you?



Not too long, about 1 week plus minus from China to my country since i always buy from Taobao and logistics from China to my place is efficient.



slaterlovesspam said:


> What about disconnect issues? That was reported in the original release but was supposedly corrected.


 Disconnect is present but not very freqeuent. For the whole day of yesterday when i was using at my shop, there was a few instances of disconnect and most disconnect occured when i was pretty far away from the source or when there were significant obstruction such as a wall in between. In open space it really can support up to 10M of distance but connection wasn't that good as disconnect became much more apparent approaching the 10M mark.

Battery life is quite decent actually for such small module as it was connected from 10am in the morning when i was at work with mix of music playback, video streaming in between and yet still manage to work about 5 hours later, of course there were some pauses in between when i got too busy but still it's pretty decent for its size.


----------



## Modulus

It feels like I've been waiting forever for delivery. I ordered over a month ago and this was the last status on tracking. Can anyone with more experience using Aliexpress shed some light on what's happening here? Looks like it's stuck at Chinese customs for 3 weeks:


----------



## Vidal

Modulus said:


> It feels like I've been waiting forever for delivery. I ordered over a month ago and this was the last status on tracking. Can anyone with more experience using Aliexpress shed some light on what's happening here? Looks like it's stuck at Chinese customs for 3 weeks:



Last time I got that was with NiceHCK, I think they'd deliberately messed up the order so that it went back to them. It was when they took a lot of orders and didn't actually have stock. I've never used them since.


----------



## toddy0191

Modulus said:


> It feels like I've been waiting forever for delivery. I ordered over a month ago and this was the last status on tracking. Can anyone with more experience using Aliexpress shed some light on what's happening here? Looks like it's stuck at Chinese customs for 3 weeks:



Click on the 17track link at the bottom, you sometimes get more info on that.

It usually takes around 9 days for me to the UK from that status.


----------



## Modulus

toddy0191 said:


> Click on the 17track link at the bottom, you sometimes get more info on that.
> 
> It usually takes around 9 days for me to the UK from that status.



The 17track link has the same status, I'm ordering to Germany. So for you it's also gotten "stuck" at this status but was in fact already dispatched by air mail?


----------



## Saoshyant

My ZS5 took 18 days after shipping out of country to arrive in US


----------



## toddy0191 (Jun 25, 2017)

Modulus said:


> The 17track link has the same status, I'm ordering to Germany. So for you it's also gotten "stuck" at this status but was in fact already dispatched by air mail?



Yes and the status didn't update on aliexpress until after it had been delivered.

Alternatively try clicking the China registered post link after copying the tracking number and track it on your home tracking service.


----------



## Francisk (Jun 26, 2017)

I've been experimenting with tips rolling on the ZS5 for a while now and for those who yearn for a more neutral and balanced sound (which is not as V shaped) with very clear detailed mids from their ZS5, use the Comply T400 tips...and the next tip is very important...Use Comply T400 tips one size smaller than your normal size eg. my tips size is L but I use size M instead. Due to the nature of Comply foam tips, one size smaller tips still fit snugly for my ears and I no longer need to roll the tips between my fingers to make them smaller before insertion. This combi works superbly for me, the high frequency peaks are no longer there and the low frequencies are now tamed quite a bit and is actually tighter without the blooming/wooly bass effect. Mids are now very detailed and up front, percussive instruments have better transient attack and I'm actually very surprised with the ZS5 with this combi and I can now confidently say that it sounds as good or even better than many $100+ IEMs out there. I think I've finally found the perfect tips for me to pair with the ZS5 

PS: The one size smaller Comply T400 actually attenuates the excessive bloat of the ZS5 and therefore result in a more controlled and tight bass yet retaining the low end extension, right down to 20Hz actually. It also attenuates the high frequency peaks and make the the ZS5 sound smoother yet retaining the high frequency extension. Due to the attenuation on both ends of the frequency spectrum, the ZS5 no longer sound bloated at the bottom and neither does it sound sibilant up top anymore....better still, the mids now become much more clearer and detailed because of the attenuation on both ends therefore the ZS5 does not sound as V shaped as the ZS5 paired with the stock tips. Percussive instruments' transient attack is therefore more prominet with a fast and snappy attack. This by far is the best sounding configuration of the ZS5 for me. Oh btw, this method does not apply to those who particularly like V shaped, nor bass-head level sound signature. This method only applies to those who loves a more balanced, more detailed and less V shaped sound signature. YMMV.


----------



## enri

Francisk said:


> I've been experimenting with tip rolling on the ZS5 for a while now and for those who yearn for a more neutral and balanced sound which is not V shaped with very clear detailed mids from their ZS5, use the Comply T400 tips...and the next tip is very important...Use Comply T400 tips one size smaller than your normal size eg. my tips size is L but I use size M instead. Due to the nature of Comply foam tips, one size smaller tips still fit snugly for my ears and I no longer need to roll the tips between my fingers to make them smaller before insertion. This combi works superbly for me, the high frequency peaks are no longer there and the low frequencies are now tamed quite a bit and is actually tighter without the blooming/wooly bass effect. Mids are now very detailed and up front, percussive instruments have better transient attack and I'm actually very surprised with the ZS5 with this combi and I can now confidently say that it sounds as good or even better than many $100+ IEMs out there. I think I've finally found the perfect tips for me to pair with the ZS5



Do you think the TSX-400 / TS-400 will do the same job as your tested T400 set up? I am newbie...thanks


----------



## Francisk (Jun 25, 2017)

enri said:


> Do you think the TSX-400 / TS-400 will do the same job as your tested T400 set up? I am newbie...thanks



I don't have the TSX400/TS400 tips so I'm not able to confirm the result. I have the TSX200 though but it sounds very different from my T400. The TSX200 does not tame the high peaks as much nor does it tighten the lower frequencies like the T400 one size smaller for me. You might want to give it the TSX400/T400 a try and let us know the result.


----------



## enri

Francisk said:


> I don't have the TSX400/TS400 tips so I'm not able to confirm the result. I have the TSX200 though but it sounds very different from my T400. The TSX200 does not tame the high peaks as much nor does it tighten the lower frequencies like the T400 one size smaller for me. You might want to give it the TSX400/T400 a try and let us know the result.



I should actually using a 5yr old T400/T500 (already forgot) that was paired for headphone come with Galaxy tab 7.7. I am quite pleased with it for use with ZS5 and DP- X1A. Now want to buy a new set and saw your post, that's why I ask.

Don't want to get both TSX and T series because it is too many and pricey. Perhaps I should settle in T400....


----------



## acia

Folks, forget about the gold or silver coated cable.  The following pure silver and copper is good stuff. 

Much more details in instruments. But not much improvement on vocal. 

【4N纯银 铜银混编VSD3 VSD3S  ZS3 ZS5升级线 2.5 4级平衡线】，点击链接再选择浏览器打开http://c.b1yt.com/h.99idiX?cv=q4DjZyymWl6&sm=cc8438 ，或复制这条信息￥q4DjZyymWl6￥后打开手机淘宝


----------



## ricemanhk

acia said:


> Folks, forget about the gold or silver coated cable.  The following pure silver and copper is good stuff.
> 
> Much more details in instruments. But not much improvement on vocal.
> 
> 【4N纯银 铜银混编VSD3 VSD3S  ZS3 ZS5升级线 2.5 4级平衡线】，点击链接再选择浏览器打开http://c.b1yt.com/h.99idiX?cv=q4DjZyymWl6&sm=cc8438 ，或复制这条信息￥q4DjZyymWl6￥后打开手机淘宝



Can you post a picture of the housing?  I want to see if it's generic 2 pin or actually the ZS3/ZS5 KZ housing


----------



## Francisk

enri said:


> I should actually using a 5yr old T400/T500 (already forgot) that was paired for headphone come with Galaxy tab 7.7. I am quite pleased with it for use with ZS5 and DP- X1A. Now want to buy a new set and saw your post, that's why I ask.
> 
> Don't want to get both TSX and T series because it is too many and pricey. Perhaps I should settle in T400....



Yes, I'd stick to the T400 tips because different models of Comply tips actually produce different sound. I've tested my ZS5 with T200, TSX200, TS200, T400, T500 and finally settled for the T400 size M which is one size smaller than my regular L size Comply tips. To my ears, the T400 size M tips give me the most balanced sound from the ZS5.


----------



## Francisk

acia said:


> Folks, forget about the gold or silver coated cable.  The following pure silver and copper is good stuff.
> 
> Much more details in instruments. But not much improvement on vocal.
> 
> 【4N纯银 铜银混编VSD3 VSD3S  ZS3 ZS5升级线 2.5 4级平衡线】，点击链接再选择浏览器打开http://c.b1yt.com/h.99idiX?cv=q4DjZyymWl6&sm=cc8438 ，或复制这条信息￥q4DjZyymWl6￥后打开手机淘宝



Acia, these are cables with MMCX connectors. I don't think it will fit the ZS5. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## ricemanhk

Francisk said:


> Acia, these are cables with MMCX connectors. I don't think it will fit the ZS5. Please correct me if I'm wrong.



The taobao seller can do custom housings.  There's a picture further down the page for the 2 pins for ZS3/ZS5, but it's taken straight on and only show the pins but not the housing itself, which was why I asked.
From what Acia wrote, I think he got a wire to use it with his ZS5 already...


----------



## acia

ricemanhk said:


> The taobao seller can do custom housings.  There's a picture further down the page for the 2 pins for ZS3/ZS5, but it's taken straight on and only show the pins but not the housing itself, which was why I asked.
> From what Acia wrote, I think he got a wire to use it with his ZS5 already...


Not one but 3.  Good workmanship and pricing.  The seller only know Chinese. So you need to use Google translate quite a bit 

Pick whatever combination of cable, plugs and splitter.  

Chatted with seller. Ok to ship overseas.  Of course, postage on top.  

Just toss silver or gold plated cable, this is a completely different game altogether.  Ps I have both gold or silver plated cable. Not too much difference from the default cable.


----------



## acia

For all3 cables. All polarity is correct for zs5


----------



## ricemanhk

acia said:


> Not one but 3.  Good workmanship and pricing.  The seller only know Chinese. So you need to use Google translate quite a bit
> 
> Pick whatever combination of cable, plugs and splitter.
> 
> ...



Would you mind posting a picture of the wire housing for the wires you got?  The part that plugs into the ZS5.  I want to see if they have the exact KZ female housing or whether it's only relying on the 2 pins to maintain the friction.


----------



## ricemanhk

acia said:


> Not one but 3.  Good workmanship and pricing.  The seller only know Chinese. So you need to use Google translate quite a bit
> 
> Pick whatever combination of cable, plugs and splitter.
> 
> ...



Also which wire did you get?  pure silver or silver+copper?  how many strands per wire?


----------



## acia

Silver and copper. 

There is no .75 housing. 

If you want that, good luck to you and keep on looking. 

Happy with the .78 ciem housing already shown in the seller ad. 

Of course, if you have more money, welcome to choose all pure silver or thicker cable. 

Mine is 150 rmb one, ie around USD 20.


----------



## acia

13 strands.


----------



## VinceHill24

acia said:


> Silver and copper.
> 
> There is no .75 housing.
> 
> ...


If you're using a 0.78mm 2-pin connection, chances are you risk damaging the connector and it may become loosen so you can no longer use it with stock / any 0.75mm 2-pin connection. 

I've experienced such issues with these cables. Those sellers just don't know the potential risk of it. I found out when the custom 2-pin cable i'm using connect nicely to my TFZ Exclusive 3 which uses 0.78mm connector and i realised the stock and KZ silver plated cable seems to be lossely fitted nowadays into my ZS5/ZS3/ZST. It will fit for sure it's just that you gotta know the consequences.


----------



## ricemanhk

VinceHill24 said:


> If you're using a 0.78mm 2-pin connection, chances are you risk damaging the connector and it may become loosen so you can no longer use it with stock / any 0.75mm 2-pin connection.
> 
> I've experienced such issues with these cables. Those sellers just don't know the potential risk of it. I found out when the custom 2-pin cable i'm using connect nicely to my TFZ Exclusive 3 which uses 0.78mm connector and i realised the stock and KZ silver plated cable seems to be lossely fitted nowadays into my ZS5/ZS3/ZST. It will fit for sure it's just that you gotta know the consequences.



Yeah, the same thing happened with my UE triplefi 10s...shop swore it was the one for TF10s but then turns out it's the 0.78mm pins (which was for Westone and another UE IEM)...so I can only use the bigger pins from now on.


----------



## acia

VinceHill24 said:


> If you're using a 0.78mm 2-pin connection, chances are you risk damaging the connector and it may become loosen so you can no longer use it with stock / any 0.75mm 2-pin connection.
> 
> I've experienced such issues with these cables. Those sellers just don't know the potential risk of it. I found out when the custom 2-pin cable i'm using connect nicely to my TFZ Exclusive 3 which uses 0.78mm connector and i realised the stock and KZ silver plated cable seems to be lossely fitted nowadays into my ZS5/ZS3/ZST. It will fit for sure it's just that you gotta know the consequences.


What is the use of the original cables anyway after you get the custom cable?


----------



## crabdog

acia said:


> What is the use of the original cables anyway after you get the custom cable?


In case of emergency ie: custom cable dies.


----------



## ricemanhk

acia said:


> What is the use of the original cables anyway after you get the custom cable?



It's not so much wanting to use the original cable, since you can always get extra custom cables for backup.  But it's the fact that you are permanently enlarging the wire pin receptacle that bothers me.  It could mean the receptacle becomes a little more fragile, and there might be more issues with wear and tear over time.

Perhaps I want to use the KZ bluetooth cable later, or they finally fix the mic and come out again with a cable with mic control that has volume buttons (my first batch ZS5 came with one and I love it).  You stick in a custom cable with 0.78mm pins and those options are gone.


----------



## ricemanhk

I talked with the custom cable seller.  They say they tried 0.75mm pins but those were a bit loose, hence the use of 0.78mm.  FWIW they said they haven't had issues with using the stock cable again afterwards...


----------



## loomisjohnson

got a pair of zs5 on lend-lease from another member--my impressions should make their way onto vidal's site. quite a bit different than i expected--more u-shaped, less neutral and bassier. in general, they sound like something of an amalgam of zs3 lows, the zst's width and imaging and the bright-but-natural (albeit more extended) high end of the ed9.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> got a pair of zs5 on lend-lease from another member--my impressions should make their way onto vidal's site. quite a bit different than i expected--more u-shaped, less neutral and bassier. in general, they sound like something of an amalgam of zs3 lows, the zst's width and imaging and the bright-but-natural (albeit more extended) high end of the ed9.



That's pretty similar to how I feel. Looking forward to reading your full impressions on Vidal's site


----------



## Vidal

B9Scrambler said:


> That's pretty similar to how I feel. Looking forward to reading your full impressions on Vidal's site



Just updated the ZS5 review with Loomis's thoughts..... http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs5/


----------



## B9Scrambler

Vidal said:


> Just updated the ZS5 review with Loomis's thoughts..... http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs5/



Thanks! Not on board with everything (are we ever? haha) but I echo many of his thoughts. Regardless, a great budget iem no matter how you look at it.


----------



## Vidal

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks! Not on board with everything (are we ever? haha) but I echo many of his thoughts. Regardless, a great budget iem no matter how you look at it.



Same here, but again in agreement that it's a great budget buy. ZS5 has a level of performance that exceeds it's price point by some margin.


----------



## Francisk

loomisjohnson said:


> got a pair of zs5 on lend-lease from another member--my impressions should make their way onto vidal's site. quite a bit different than i expected--more u-shaped, less neutral and bassier. in general, they sound like something of an amalgam of zs3 lows, the zst's width and imaging and the bright-but-natural (albeit more extended) high end of the ed9.



My intial opinion of the ZS5 is very much in line with yours but with a bit of tip rolling, I manage to find the right Comply T400 tips (size M as opposed to my regular size L for a good reason) that manage to tame the low frequencies and also the high frequency peaks. After using this combi, I've found that the sound signature is less U or V shaped. You might have missed my post regarding this so here's the link: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1232#post-13565165

Hope this will help those who wants to make the ZS5 less U or V shape.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Bluetooth adapter arrived today, as I mentioned they made me choose between ZS3/ZS5 or ZST ... the box says ZS3 on it, so presumerably there is a difference.

Only sad thing is, still no sign of my ZS5 showing up.


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Hi guys
After having many problems with the ZS3 such as the memory wire sucking balls (I stripped it out), the pins bending and then me eventually putting them through the washing machine lol.
I need a replacement (My backup ATE's cable is gonna rip off) so I now super confused as to which I should get.
ZS3 again? ZST? Piston Hyrid Pro? ZS5?

I just need what will sound the absolute best for my music of which I will give you some samples of:


----------



## loomisjohnson

Francisk said:


> My intial opinion of the ZS5 is very much in line with yours but with a bit of tip rolling, I manage to find the right Comply T400 tips (size M as opposed to my regular size L for a good reason) that manage to tame the low frequencies and also the high frequency peaks. After using this combi, I've found that the sound signature is less U or V shaped. You might have missed my post regarding this so here's the link: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1232#post-13565165
> 
> Hope this will help those who wants to make the ZS5 less U or V shape.


i will try the complys as you suggest. there is definitely alot of wild bloom in the bass w/the stock tips.


----------



## Francisk

loomisjohnson said:


> i will try the complys as you suggest. there is definitely alot of wild bloom in the bass w/the stock tips.



Yes, totally agree with you on the bloomy bass. Just make sure that you get one size smaller than your regular size for the Comply T400. Do let us know your opinion on this workaround. It works for me and I hope it works for everyone else.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Looking at how people are surprised of the ever improving world of Chi-fi, the performance seems to get higher while the prices seem to get lower by proportion to the sound quality, I really do hope KZ and many other "pioneers" of this market of value stick around for many years to come until really good audio is readily accessible at a dirt cheap price for anyone. Perhaps there may be even a day when QC and durability issues will be eradicated. Exciting for my ears and my wallet.


----------



## Carrow

Gearbest has a flash sale ongoing that includes the ZS5s, in grey.

I just ordered a pair. Item + registered shipping - flash sale & new account discount = €19.62. Holy crap.


----------



## peskypesky

Me too! Just ordered the gray for $19.99 shipped.  Crazy good price.  

I'm looking forward to seeing how the ZS5 compare to my KZ ED9s.


----------



## peskypesky

CardigdanWalk said:


> Bluetooth adapter arrived today, as I mentioned they made me choose between ZS3/ZS5 or ZST ... the box says ZS3 on it, so presumerably there is a difference.
> 
> Only sad thing is, still no sign of my ZS5 showing up.


what is that???


----------



## bhazard

$20 is an awesome price for the ZS5.

At times, it mostly sounds like a $100 IEM, but then some songs get muffled. Tame that and it is very, very good. I'll have to try the comply's, which normally makes bass much less clear to me instead of the other way around.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> what is that???



KZ bluetooth cable; available for the ZS3, ZS5, ZST, and ZSR.


----------



## peskypesky

slaterlovesspam said:


> KZ bluetooth cable; available for the ZS3, ZS5, ZST, and ZSR.


thank you!
it's this?
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ine-HIFI-Stereo-Bass/1938884_32817122894.html

May have to order one for my ZS5, which is on its way....


----------



## Francisk (Jun 26, 2017)

bhazard said:


> $20 is an awesome price for the ZS5.
> 
> At times, it mostly sounds like a $100 IEM, but then some songs get muffled. Tame that and it is very, very good. I'll have to try the comply's, which normally makes bass much less clear to me instead of the other way around.


Bhazard, try the Comply T400 tips one size smaller than your regular size eg. if you normally use the L size then go for the M size instead. The M size still fit snugly in my ear without having to compress the tips before insertion like the L size. The one size smaller T400 tips actually attenuates the low frequencies making the low end tighter and less bloomy. At the same time, it also tame the high frequency peaks, making the ZS5 less splashy and sibilant up top. With this method, the mid frequencies now sound clearer and more detailed.


----------



## Francisk

slaterlovesspam said:


> KZ bluetooth cable; available for the ZS3, ZS5, ZST, and ZSR.



Please share your experience with this KZ Bluetooth cable. What's the battery life like?


----------



## ricemanhk

CardigdanWalk said:


> Bluetooth adapter arrived today, as I mentioned they made me choose between ZS3/ZS5 or ZST ... the box says ZS3 on it, so presumerably there is a difference.
> 
> Only sad thing is, still no sign of my ZS5 showing up.



Yes, the wire housing with the 2 pins are slightly different between ZS3/ZS5 and ZST.  Do keep us posted on battery life...I'm hesitant to purchase it as some comments on taobao mention only 2hrs.  If it can hit 4hrs I can still live with that.


----------



## Francisk

I'll definitely purchase one if it has 6+ hours of battery life.


----------



## trollin863

Hey I know a lot of you all dont use the ED4. I use them for yard work, and commuting mainly but I noticed today that the screen popped off one of the nozzles. I had a tough time fitting the screen back on the nozzle. Feel like it might pop out the next time I take off the tip.

Isnt the screens purpose just to collect ear wax and protect the inner part of the nozzle?

Just thinking If I was careful and made sure my ears werent too waxy when wearing can I go without the screens and that shouldnt affect the sound?

Appreciate it anyone who can answer this.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

ricemanhk said:


> Yes, the wire housing with the 2 pins are slightly different between ZS3/ZS5 and ZST.  Do keep us posted on battery life...I'm hesitant to purchase it as some comments on taobao mention only 2hrs.  If it can hit 4hrs I can still live with that.





Francisk said:


> I'll definitely purchase one if it has 6+ hours of battery life.



Will do as soon as my ZS5's arrive! Bit worried as someone said NiceHCK is a slow shipper a few pages back!

Don't have high hopes for six hours, the manual says 3-4 if I recall correctly, will confirm later


----------



## nplateau

I'm using JVC Spiral Dots for tips, and it tames the bass ever so slightly.  There's still bloominess, but it's not as intolerable as the narrower bore KZ tips.  Having done some A/B testing against my ZST and ZS3, I can see where some how found similarities with the ZST, but I find the ZS5 to have much more body and warmth to it.  I vastly prefer the sound (with some brain burn in) of the ZS5 as it gives me a combination of the ZST and ZS3 without too many glaring compromises.  Basically the ZST and ZS3 have now been relegated to gym duty.


----------



## ricemanhk

Francisk said:


> I'll definitely purchase one if it has 6+ hours of battery life.



I asked the usual taobao shop where I get my KZ stuff from, they say max volume continuous play can reach 3hrs or so for the KZ BT module, available for ZST/ED12 and ZS3/ZS5.  BTW supposedly the newer BT module is now BT 4.2, vs 4.1 of the initial batch which I think they recalled due to low battery life and connectivity issues.  I will get a ZST one to try...


----------



## ricemanhk

nplateau said:


> Basically the ZST and ZS3 have now been relegated to gym duty.



LOL that's exactly what I'm getting the ZST BT module for...


----------



## Dcell7

CardigdanWalk said:


> Will do as soon as my ZS5's arrive! Bit worried as someone said NiceHCK is a slow shipper a few pages back!
> 
> Don't have high hopes for six hours, the manual says 3-4 if I recall correctly, will confirm later



I've ordered 3 times recently at NiceHCK and all were shipped a day after ordering.

However the first order was waiting to be picked up by the courier for 5 days. The second and third order were picked up a day after i got my shipping confirmation.


----------



## acia

ricemanhk said:


> I asked the usual taobao shop where I get my KZ stuff from, they say max volume continuous play can reach 3hrs or so for the KZ BT module, available for ZST/ED12 and ZS3/ZS5.  BTW supposedly the newer BT module is now BT 4.2, vs 4.1 of the initial batch which I think they recalled due to low battery life and connectivity issues.  I will get a ZST one to try...


Link dude. Ordering 4 more silver cable.


----------



## Carrow

What tips should I order for these? Chatter ITT saying the stock tips make them sound overly bassy. Comply T-400 or Spiral Dots, you reckon? (I would say Spinfits are an option but I'm totally done with Trinity's bullsh*t.)


----------



## ricemanhk

acia said:


> Link dude. Ordering 4 more silver cable.



Main page of the shop, they were one of the few taobao shops who had the ZS5 earlier than KZ's own tmall shop
https://kzerj.world.taobao.com/shop/view_shop.htm?shop_id=390304274

Silver cable
https://world.taobao.com/item/539839181317.htm

KZ BT module
https://world.taobao.com/item/548524162549.htm

BTW gold cable for ZS3/ZS5 still not yet available, while the ZST/ED12 one is double the price now...


----------



## MaggotBasshead (Jun 27, 2017)

Hi guys
After having many problems with the ZS3 such as the memory wire sucking balls (I stripped it out), the pins bending and then me eventually putting them through the washing machine lol.
I need a replacement (My backup ATE's cable is gonna rip off) so I now super confused as to which I should get.
ZS3 again? ZST? Piston Hyrid Pro? ZS5?

I just need what will sound the absolute best for my music of which I will give you some samples of:


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Can't beat a bit of Suicide Silence


----------



## Francisk

Carrow said:


> What tips should I order for these? Chatter ITT saying the stock tips make them sound overly bassy. Comply T-400 or Spiral Dots, you reckon? (I would say Spinfits are an option but I'm totally done with Trinity's bullsh*t.)



I've tried tip rolling with the Spiral Dots, Spinfits, FitEar Triple Flange and several models of Comply tips and finally concluded that the Comply T400 M size (one size smaller than my regular L size) sounds the most balanced to me. YMMV because by the end of the day, it depends on what kind of sound signature you're after. As for me, I prefer a more neutral/balanced sound and less U or V shaped sound signature.


----------



## MaggotBasshead (Jun 27, 2017)

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Can't beat a bit of Suicide Silence


Yeah man! At least someone replied to my post! haha


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

MaggotBasshead said:


> Yeah man! At least someone replied to me post! haha



I only have the ZS5 and they would be fine, but haven't given them a good long listen yet.


----------



## acia (Jun 27, 2017)

ricemanhk said:


> Main page of the shop, they were one of the few taobao shops who had the ZS5 earlier than KZ's own tmall shop
> https://kzerj.world.taobao.com/shop/view_shop.htm?shop_id=390304274
> 
> Silver cable
> ...



Thanks ordered 4 extra pure silver and copper cable from the same chap.  See how it goes. I got better customer service than an American brand headphones     Enough is enough.


----------



## Carrow

Francisk said:


> I've tried tip rolling with the Spiral Dots, Spinfits, FitEar Triple Flange and several models of Comply tips and finally concluded that the Comply T400 M size (one size smaller than my regular L size) sounds the most balanced to me. YMMV because by the end of the day, it depends on what kind of sound signature you're after. As for me, I prefer a more neutral/balanced sound and less U or V shaped sound signature.



Oh yeah it's definitely YMMV but I've a much better idea of what works and doesn't for me than I did even a year ago. I'll go for the T400s as they're easiest for me to get a hold of at the moment.Thanks!


----------



## arn82

ricemanhk said:


> LOL that's exactly what I'm getting the ZST BT module for...



Do you know if the BT module is aptx compatible?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

ricemanhk said:


> I asked the usual taobao shop where I get my KZ stuff from, they say max volume continuous play can reach 3hrs or so for the KZ BT module, available for ZST/ED12 and ZS3/ZS5.  BTW supposedly the newer BT module is now BT 4.2, vs 4.1 of the initial batch which I think they recalled due to low battery life and connectivity issues.  I will get a ZST one to try...



Anyway of telling which batch I have?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

arn82 said:


> Do you know if the BT module is aptx compatible?



Well, the box says Bluetooth 4.1 and no mention of APTX

Th manual says 4.2, APTX, HFP, HSP, AVRCP, A2DP and 3-4 hour working time.

So not sure which to believe.

Do apple products support APTX?


----------



## Vidal

CardigdanWalk said:


> Do apple products support APTX?



Nope, AAC is the one the iPhone uses.

More info here


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> thank you!
> it's this?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ine-HIFI-Stereo-Bass/1938884_32817122894.html
> 
> May have to order one for my ZS5, which is on its way....



Yeah that's the one. But that seller has zero feedback, which is a red flag to me.


----------



## Slater (Jun 27, 2017)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Well, the box says Bluetooth 4.1 and no mention of APTX
> 
> The manual says 4.2, APTX, HFP, HSP, AVRCP, A2DP and 3-4 hour working time.
> 
> So not sure which to believe.



New version is supposed to be a solid 3-4 hours.

Not sure in your case. True, the 4.2 is the "new version", but with the box saying 1 thing and the manual saying another there's no telling what you received.

Does it say anything on the little control box? Might be a clue there, as sometimes manufacturers have a serial number or model number you could look up, and other times they print what bluetooth version it's using. I know it says "KZ" and some other stuff printed, but I just can't remember what the other stuff said from the photo someone posted.

Also, I know on a Mac when you connect to something Bluetooth you can somehow look at the properties of the connection and it will tell you the Bluetooth version and whether you are using aptX or not. I've seen a number of people discussing this method on the Cayin N3 thread. So that would be 1 way to definitely tell.

Another method would be to pop apart the control box with a spudger tool and just look at what chipset it has installed. That's what I'm planning on doing once my cable arrives.


----------



## ricemanhk

CardigdanWalk said:


> Well, the box says Bluetooth 4.1 and no mention of APTX
> 
> Th manual says 4.2, APTX, HFP, HSP, AVRCP, A2DP and 3-4 hour working time.
> 
> ...



This is why I'm only buying from reputable shops.  I've seen some shops on taobao offer it lower than MSRP, but then those are likely the initial 4.1 batches.
The newer 4.2 gives better connectivity but mainly better battery life.  Some comments on the initial batches says 1-2 hours only.

But as to checking whether it's really 4.2 and aptx...I have no idea.  BTW I thought aptx was a proprietary standard?  KZ is definitely not on the list of brands on the aptx website...so unless they reverse engineered it...


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> This is why I'm only buying from reputable shops.  I've seen some shops on taobao offer it lower than MSRP, but then those are likely the initial 4.1 batches.
> The newer 4.2 gives better connectivity but mainly better battery life.  Some comments on the initial batches says 1-2 hours only.
> 
> But as to checking whether it's really 4.2 and aptx...I have no idea.  BTW I thought aptx was a proprietary standard?  KZ is definitely not on the list of brands on the aptx website...so unless they reverse engineered it...



Yes, they are proprietary (vs an open standard). The aptX family of codecs were bought by CSR a number of years ago (a communications chipset manufacturer [including bluetooth]). CSR was then most recently bought by Qualcomm in 2015.

Companies license the aptX codec from Qualcomm, and utilize them in their (bluetooth) products (which also allows them to use the aptX name and logo etc). Those products are obviously designed to work hand-in-hand with CSR (Qualcomm) bluetooth chipsets, for proper support of the aptX codec.


----------



## acia

What is good about 4.2?


----------



## ricemanhk

acia said:


> What is good about 4.2?



4.2 mainly improves IoT lower power usage.  But for headphones and other applications, this is useful - Speed: 250% faster and 10x more packet capacity


----------



## vladstef (Jun 28, 2017)

Just received ZS5 (from NiceHCK), experimented a bit (they are not burned in yet, but don't think they will change much). Very positive first impressions, here are a few things I noticed:

no quality issues with wrong cable/phase, shells feel sturdy except the part where cable goes in which gives that plastic feel, afraid to damage it when changing cables (plastic seam doesn't look perfect, but it is small and doesn't worry me, looks cheap if you really take a close look)
around that plastic seam, I can detect at least 3 vent "holes", like small lines where air can come in, but isolation is not terrible, quite average
stock tips are not gentle to my ears (hurt somewhat), very noticeable boomy effect on bass, especially if you like to listen somewhat louder
comply tips (M) balance it out, lovely sound, makes bass tight - best sound with these for me
spinfit cp240 (S) fits nicely, s̶o̶u̶n̶d̶s̶ ̶s̶i̶m̶i̶l̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶l̶y̶, they reduce dinamics of the complys but also remove one small peak in the highs (comply tips don't remove this one, but no big deal as it is a small peak, still sounds better than spinfit) - tips will be different for everyone, but at least try them with comply
cable memory wire is terrible for me, stiff and can't mold it properly, used to enjoy Shure se215 where I could mold wire and just tuck it over my ears without changing its shape when taking out/putting in
sound is fairly balanced for the price, slightly disappointed with mids, but they are not sibilant for me (just slightly and not often) and bass is tight, ever so slightly veiled vocals. Maybe eq has the potential to bring the mids up which would really make them shine for me
These are much better than Xiaomi Pro HD in every way (including fit and isolation) except clarity, where Pro HD might have a slight victory, but add sibilance to that, so, not really a win for HDs.
Strongly disagree with people who say that they lack resolution in the lows, keep in mind that I used stock tips for 2 minutes, tried others and never went back - it is that much of a difference.
Sometimes, these bring out amazing amount of details, not just good, but way way above their asking price


----------



## Saoshyant

Was kind of disappointed to see that my ZS3's cable doesn't work with the ZS5 as I tend to prefer the premolded flexible guides over memory wire.


----------



## ricemanhk

Saoshyant said:


> Was kind of disappointed to see that my ZS3's cable doesn't work with the ZS5 as I tend to prefer the premolded flexible guides over memory wire.



huh?  the 2 should be the same, indeed I would argue the ZS5 cable looks weird exactly because they just took the ZS3 cable with the contour cutouts as well, which doesn't fit ZS5 aesthetically.  what isn't working with yours?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Older ZS3s have thicker pins. Not the same as the ZS5 or current ZS3.


----------



## Saoshyant (Jun 28, 2017)

The pins for the ZS3 are too thick.  And yeah, what B9 just said.  I keep forgetting there is a pin difference on the two ZS3s.

After a bit of tip rolling and going with my favorite Hifiman tips, the comfort has improved quite a lot.  I was worried about that aspect at first, but maybe it won't be an issue.


----------



## snip3r77

Some questions 

1) does zs5 comes with the comply?

2) are pins used across Brand’s consistent in diameter?


----------



## Francisk

snip3r77 said:


> Some questions
> 
> 1) does zs5 comes with the comply?
> 
> 2) are pins used across Brand’s consistent in diameter?



You really expect the ZS5 to come with Comply tips at this price....huh


----------



## Vidal

KZ do olives style foam eartips on the AT range but these aren't included with the ZS5. You can pick up comply style eartips for a few dollars from Ali or Gearbest (last time I checked)


----------



## MaggotBasshead

Is there any difference between the blue ZS5's and the grey ZS5's? I know KZ sometime make slight changes to their things


----------



## B9Scrambler

MaggotBasshead said:


> Is there any difference between the blue ZS5's and the grey ZS5's? I know KZ sometime make slight changes to their things



Nope


----------



## MaggotBasshead

How do I know if I'm gonna get the premium packaging on the ZS5 or just a repackage?
Have any of you received different packaging?


----------



## vladstef

MaggotBasshead said:


> How do I know if I'm gonna get the premium packaging on the ZS5 or just a repackage?
> Have any of you received different packaging?


I ordered 2 weeks ago from NiceHCK - got the small package (not the full box). The only difference inside is the tips, with the box "premium" pack, you get 3 + 3 pairs inside metal holder, while with the smaller transparent packaging you get only 3 pairs without that holder. You don't get carrying case either way, and included tips with the small box are quite bad imo. 3 more pairs in the larger box might be better, can't comment on that. I would use other tips either way probably.


----------



## Sylmar (Jun 28, 2017)

MaggotBasshead said:


> How do I know if I'm gonna get the premium packaging on the ZS5 or just a repackage?
> Have any of you received different packaging?



Got the premium package but I must say that I personally only consider it an added value as a gift for someone else. I didn't care much for the extra packaging and 3 extra tips when I can get KZ Starline tips for next to nothing on Ali.


----------



## Audiotistic (Jun 28, 2017)

MaggotBasshead said:


> How do I know if I'm gonna get the premium packaging on the ZS5 or just a repackage?
> Have any of you received different packaging?



I live in the US and received the box on the right .  I ordered from Gearbest


----------



## khighly (Jun 28, 2017)

I'm actually getting kind of bored of the ZS5's. I've been using them daily and they just aren't exciting. My Tennmak Piano's have a better low end (bass head bass), better mids, and more smooth highs with no sibilance. The Piano's do get a little muddy when there is a lot going on, which the ZS5's don't do.

I really hope KZ goes back to the ZS5's and adjusts the mid driver to be more present. I also wouldn't mind a bit more low end.


----------



## peskypesky

khighly said:


> My Tennmak Piano's have a better low end (bass head bass)


 Damn. And here I just ordered some ZS5s.  

I'm a bass-head.


----------



## vladstef

Update on my ZS5 impressions: A few db boost in mids brings the vocals slightly while not disturbing anything, and if you use them on other devices, the missing eq isn't distracting, so a slight mid boost on your main source for these is awesome. They are not the most comfortable thing to jam in your ears for longer period of time, after about an hour with these, when I took them out, my ears started hurting a bit (interestingly, not while they were in my ears), they also left a visible impression in my ears where the edges are. Not concerned, it is a minor thing and they are fairly ok while I'm using them. Bass is a bit too much for me even with comply eartips, but it is not ruining the experience, just reminds me sometimes that these aren't exactly balanced, but relatively close. They lack the dynamic and engaging sound of more expensive iems, which makes me turn the volume more than I usually do, and sometimes I hear a distortion somewhere in the mid range, can't really pin point it as it doesn't happen often and only when really pushing them. In the end, these are spectacular (even though I bashed them more than praised them, which says a lot, I've been actively trying to find flaws, and doing that by a very high standard looking at just how they sound and disregarding the price). For around 20$ you really can't do better and even if you could, it would be barely noticeable in direct comparison, that's why these are easy to recommend.


----------



## khighly (Jun 28, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> Damn. And here I just ordered some ZS5s.
> 
> I'm a bass-head.



There is bass, but it's definitely not bass head bass. My Piano's rock my skull and it's wonderful.

You can EQ some more clean bass out of the ZS5's though.


----------



## bjaardker

With a proper seal using the KZ starline tips that came with my ZS5, I have had no problems getting basshead levels of bass to rival my DZAT DT05 and TFZ Series 5. In fact, I've had to EQ back the mids more than anything to give it more of a V shape on vocal trance and other dance music with vocals. 

If you're not getting really decent bass out of the ZS5, you might have a pair afflicted with the crossed wires and out of phase sound.


----------



## khighly

bjaardker said:


> With a proper seal using the KZ starline tips that came with my ZS5, I have had no problems getting basshead levels of bass to rival my DZAT DT05 and TFZ Series 5. In fact, I've had to EQ back the mids more than anything to give it more of a V shape on vocal trance and other dance music with vocals.
> 
> If you're not getting really decent bass out of the ZS5, you might have a pair afflicted with the crossed wires and out of phase sound.



Both are in phase with no issues. The problem with the ZS5's is that they show how terribly music is mastered recently.


----------



## bjaardker

khighly said:


> Both are in phase with no issues. The problem with the ZS5's is that they show how terribly music is mastered recently.



That I would totally agree with. It's interesting how some music sounds great in the ZS5 and other music almost sounds distorted. To the point that I've wondered if I was somehow overdriving the drivers. But after checking, I get that same sound at any volume.


----------



## khighly (Jun 28, 2017)

bjaardker said:


> That I would totally agree with. It's interesting how some music sounds great in the ZS5 and other music almost sounds distorted. To the point that I've wondered if I was somehow overdriving the drivers. But after checking, I get that same sound at any volume.


A good portion of my normal music sounds really bad, but what does sound good sounds REALLY GOOD.

They also really need power. Even though they're low impedance, they really need more.


----------



## Slater

I thought I'd post this here since it's KZ-related, and in case you don't follow the ChiFi IEM thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...phones-and-iems.820747/page-651#post-13569874


----------



## s4tch

zs5 first impressions

i ordered them from banggood, got the 'international' package. small box, 3 pairs of silicone tips, single cable, still, i can't complain for ~$20. build looks solid on mine; however they are light as feather. the memory wire sucks at first sight. i remember some of you guys saying that you did get rid of it; way to go if i decide to keep them. (i bought an akg n40 after ordering the zs5's, and it's so good that my chi-fi adventures might come to an early end.) comfort was meh with the silicones - no surprise here, i had to swap the silicones to some foam tips on every iem i have. with the foam tips, isolation seems all right. i won't comment on the sound too much, it would be too early to jump to conclusions, i'll just say that they sound _completely different from my sources (phone, benjie s5, desktop dac/amp), i've never heard so different sounds from these sources.


----------



## trumpethead

bjaardker said:


> With a proper seal using the KZ starline tips that came with my ZS5, I have had no problems getting basshead levels of bass to rival my DZAT DT05 and TFZ Series 5. In fact, I've had to EQ back the mids more than anything to give it more of a V shape on vocal trance and other dance music with vocals.
> 
> If you're not getting really decent bass out of the ZS5, you might have a pair afflicted with the crossed wires and out of phase sound.


Same here, The Starlines for me give a good fit and a great seal. I wouldn't want more bass than this and it does not bleed over..mids also for me are present, not forward but very clear and detailed. The key for me was to amp these. My Fiio E6 is just enough. Turned a moderately good iem into a semi beast. Nothing boring here. Imo they are the best for the money right now IF you get a good seal and give them power. Remember, there are a lot of speakers that have to be driven in these..of course Ymmv...


----------



## Saoshyant

Wait, am I the only one that only had the single pair of tips on the ZS5?


----------



## nplateau

After several days with the ZS5, and now using the Spiral Dots as opposed to the KZ Whirlwind tips, I think the ZS5 actually works best at lower volume levels, especially since to my ears there still exists a bit too much bloat in the bass.  At lower volume levels, I get great sound and very nice bass that doesn't exist with some of my other IEMs when listening at lower levels.  Using my Cayin N3, I find that I don't really need to go above 65 on low gain.  If I go too much higher than that, the bass starts bloating pretty bad.


----------



## geoemm

khighly said:


> I'm actually getting kind of bored of the ZS5's. I've been using them daily and they just aren't exciting. My Tennmak Piano's have a better low end (bass head bass), better mids, and more smooth highs with no sibilance. The Piano's do get a little muddy when there is a lot going on, which the ZS5's don't do.
> 
> I really hope KZ goes back to the ZS5's and adjusts the mid driver to be more present. I also wouldn't mind a bit more low end.


made an eq for zs5 to be used with equalizerApo (win).paste the below line in the config.txt in C:\Program Files\EqualizerAPO\config
GraphicEQ: 48.8 0; 60.6 -0.4; 101.4 -2.1; 140.8 -2.7; 196.5 -3.12; 242.4 -3.2; 291.7 -3.2; 401.2 -3.2; 485.7 -3.32; 664.2 -3.4; 814.7 -3.73; 955.5 -4.18; 1044.8 -4.4; 1210 -4.6; 1314.8 -4.77; 1523.6 -5.19; 1729.6 -5.8; 1952.5 -6.3; 2121.4 -6.6; 2379.6 -6.8; 2861.3 -7.05; 3552.6 -7.01; 3767.2 -6.3; 4015.4 -4.6; 4307.3 -1.9; 4504.1 -0.9; 4650.1 -1.9; 4807.1 -3.09; 5063.9 -4.1; 5594.9 -5.86; 6413.7 -7.72; 8428.4 -9.99


----------



## ricemanhk

B9Scrambler said:


> Older ZS3s have thicker pins. Not the same as the ZS5 or current ZS3.



Ugh, they're even changing wire housing without letting people know?  So the first batch ZS3 owners are not going to be able to get a replacement cable...coz all the spare cables now say "ZS3/ZS5"


----------



## Francisk (Jun 29, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I am about to receive a ZS5, but I've never had any phasing issues with audio equipment of any kind... I assume that it isn't hard to detect if one side isn't correctly in phase, but is it hard to detect if both sides are inverted? So, if it sounds wrong in a way, changing one side's polarity can make them both correct or both incorrect - is there a difference between the two and if perhaps the difference is small, what would be the best way to detect it? I've read that the bass is much weaker if both are inverted, but the article was orientated towards speakers, not headphones.


Like what aleksanderp mentioned, go to http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and scroll down to the "Wiring" section and check the polarity by testing "Center" (in phase) and "Twisted" (out of phase). If the IEM is in phase, you should hear the sound as dead center without hollowness eg. when you clcik "Center" you should hear a solid "dead center" sound without hollowness. When you click on "Twisted", you should hear the same sound but it will sound hollow. If that is the case, your IEM is wired correctly...if not your IEM is out of phase. If the sound is the other way around, just reverse the polarity of the cable only on one side of your IEM and check again. If this solves the phase problem then you've got your problem solved. Hope this helps.


----------



## Mellowship

khighly said:


> Both are in phase with no issues. The problem with the ZS5's is that they show how terribly music is mastered recently.



Oh you've touched the point... 
Been listening to 70's prog for the last weeks, greatly mastered albums from Yes, Gentle Giant, Van Der Graaf Generator, etc... And some of them I ripped myself to FLAC from 80's CDs which had not been digitally remastered. 
When I put something more XXI'st century popsy, I cringe.....


----------



## acia

Metal housing zs5


----------



## Audiotistic

acia said:


> Metal housing zs5



Would be nice, I like metal housings.  Although I cringe every time they accidently clank together


----------



## Dark Helmet

Just got my ZS5 today and after initial listening they sounded distant and hollow like my ears were plugged.  The finish had some scratches and dabs of glue (albeit minute).  I can't imagine these getting better with break in as they sounded horrible.  Also one of the cables is loose.  Got it from Amazon so back it goes.


----------



## Audiotistic

Dark Helmet said:


> Just got my ZS5 today and after initial listening they sounded distant and hollow like my ears were plugged.  The finish had some scratches and dabs of glue (albeit minute).  I can't imagine these getting better with break in as they sounded horrible.  Also one of the cables is loose.  Got it from Amazon so back it goes.



Sounds like you might have some phase issues maybe?  There are others here who are reporting the same thing, follow their advice and try switching the plugs around.  Mine don't sound hollow or distant at all, they sound superb.


----------



## snip3r77

Francisk said:


> Like what aleksanderp mentioned, go to http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and scroll down to the "Wiring" section and check the polarity by testing "Center" (in phase) and "Twisted" (out of phase). If the IEM is in phase, you should hear the sound as dead center without hollowness eg. when you clcik "Center" you should hear a solid "dead center" sound without hollowness. When you click on "Twisted", you should hear the same sound but it will sound hollow. If that is the case, your IEM is wired correctly...if not your IEM is out of phase. If the sound is the other way around, just reverse the polarity of the cable only on one side of your IEM and check again. If this solves the problem then you've got your problem solved. Hope this helps.



Bookmarked


----------



## aleksanderp

If you use foobar there is a DSP called "Matrix Mixer" which allows you to reverse polarity of any channel, without needing to rewire the thing. Now ZS5 has 4 drivers, so I am not sure if it is possible to reverse polarity of some driver but not others? Could be a sticky situation if that's the case...


----------



## Slater

acia said:


> Metal housing zs5



Plastic bodied Porsche


----------



## HiFiChris (Jun 29, 2017)

aleksanderp said:


> If you use foobar there is a DSP called "Matrix Mixer" which allows you to reverse polarity of any channel, without needing to rewire the thing. Now ZS5 has 4 drivers, so I am not sure if it is possible to reverse polarity of some driver but not others? Could be a sticky situation if that's the case...



Nope, that would be impossible with the ZS5 and pretty much any in-ear.
Only re-soldering the drivers that are out of phase would cure the problem.

Well, I could imagine a theoretical way that would make it mostly possible, but then one would have to know the exact crossover frequencies and crossover order.

But as long as they didn't totally eff up the inner writing, i guess that only the socket of one side or the cables are not reminded correctly.

Edit: corrected some autocorrect errors...


----------



## Spelaeus (Jun 29, 2017)

Joining the chorus saying source and power do seem to make a huge difference on the ZS5s. Just picked up a used Hifime sabre 9018 usb DAC for $40 off ebay and the ZS5s have really opened up. Tighter bass, bigger soundstage, and none of the occasional congestion I was getting on busier passages. Also enjoying the suggested comply t400s vs the stock starline tips.

Edit: This is comparing to previous use on the headphone out on a Samsung Galaxy S7, and a Sansa Clip.


----------



## bjaardker

I can't remember if it was this thread, or the chifi thread where someone wanted a photo of the zs5 in someone's ear.. So here ya go.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 1, 2017)

Spelaeus said:


> Joining the chorus saying source and power do seem to make a huge difference on the ZS5s. Just picked up a used Hifime sabre 9018 usb DAC for $40 off ebay and the ZS5s have really opened up. Tighter bass, bigger soundstage, and none of the occasional congestion I was getting on busier passages. Also enjoying the suggested comply t400s vs the stock starline tips.
> 
> Edit: This is comparing to previous use on the headphone out on a Samsung Galaxy S7, and a Sansa Clip.


Yes Spelaus, the ZS5 does indeed scale well with better DAC/Amp. I can't drive the ZS5 to it's full potential with my Samsung S7 Edge but when I plug the ZS5 into my Audio GD NFB 11.32 or Chord Mojo DAC/Amp, I can now hear the ZS5 singing to it's full potential. ZS5 does indeed scale up with better DAC and amp.


----------



## khighly

Want some ZS5 bass?

https://m.soundcloud.com/sndwvs/holo
https://m.soundcloud.com/josephletranger/friday

These are so dependent on good recordings and mastering.


----------



## Vidal

khighly said:


> Want some ZS5 bass?
> 
> These are so dependent on good recordings and mastering.



Pretty much most audiophile earphones will pick out recording/mastering issues. I had to stop myself from listening to early Prince stuff as soon as my kit improved.


----------



## Skullophile

I find most of my MP3's sound like artifacty garbage with my revealing iems but I've never had a problem with FLAC files.


----------



## Mellowship

Skullophile said:


> I find most of my MP3's sound like artifacty garbage with my revealing iems but I've never had a problem with FLAC files.



It's not always a question of MP3 vs FLAC, but of good vs. bad quality mastering or remastering at the studio. In fact, if an album is mastered or remastered with the "loudness wars paradigm" of sound, ripping it in FLAC will only contribute to better reveal its flaws, when comparing to, for instances, 192 kbps mp3. 

Well, I hope my ZS5, which is on the slow boat from china, doesn't have any of those issues with phase.

Only got one IEM out of phase, and the fault was with the cable. It was the KZ IE80 (which, unlike many of us here, I find quite enjoyable, with great beautiful mids and wide soundstage), and I bought a tingo silver..y cable with senn connectors. Problem solved.


----------



## vladstef

ZS5 has been a real pleasure to listen to so far. Sometimes there is some boomy bass, sometimes slightly hot in the treble, sometimes I would like a bit more out of mids, but overall they are amazing and don't ever disappoint. In some cases with music that I'm familiar with they reveal enough to determine without error whether something is flac or mp3. Takes some wizardry to have them at this price. Here is to hoping that ZSR will bring even more to the table.


----------



## Shinry

So sad,
after a bit of trouble with the seller and a loooong wait I received a ZS5 with a golden ZST cable  Luckily I ordered a silver ZS3 cable a week after the ZS5 which arrived a while ago but will have to order a new one.
Strangely the only difference in packaging is the ZST Sticker



I'd use it for my ZST if it weren't that ugly (in my opinion)


----------



## Audiotistic (Jun 30, 2017)

khighly said:


> Want some ZS5 bass?
> 
> https://m.soundcloud.com/sndwvs/holo
> https://m.soundcloud.com/josephletranger/friday
> ...



This is my go to for testing bass:


----------



## acia




----------



## Cya|\|

@Skullophile are you still waiting the zs5?


----------



## Audiotistic

acia said:


>



Are you doing what I think you're doing?


----------



## Skullophile

I hope they're doing what you think they're doing.
And Cya, I'm searching out a balanced cable for ZS5 before I join the club. Anyone have links for a 2.5mm cable that will fit it?


----------



## toddy0191

Right, can someone with technical knowledge explain what's happening with my ZS5s with my S8????

I've received my second pair today and they do not work on my S8 with the stock mic cable.  They work out of my xduoo X3 just fine and like my first pair work with my old ZS3 stock mic cable on the S8.

The phone recognises they are plugged in and the remote buttons work, but zero sound.  

All my other iems work perfectly with the S8 so no issue with the phone, and as I said they work fine on the S8 with the older ZS3 cable.

I had exactly the same problem with my first pair and the silver cable.


----------



## Vidal

toddy0191 said:


> Right, can someone with technical knowledge explain what's happening with my ZS5s with my S8????
> 
> I've received my second pair today and they do not work on my S8 with the stock mic cable.  They work out of my xduoo X3 just fine and like my first pair work with my old ZS3 stock mic cable on the S8.
> 
> ...



Is it the three button remote? I wonder if that's why KZ have gone back to the old cable.


----------



## toddy0191

Vidal said:


> Is it the three button remote? I wonder if that's why KZ have gone back to the old cable.



Yes, although I had the same problem with the silver cable with no mic.


----------



## Skullophile

toddy0191 said:


> Right, can someone with technical knowledge explain what's happening with my ZS5s with my S8????
> 
> I've received my second pair today and they do not work on my S8 with the stock mic cable.  They work out of my xduoo X3 just fine and like my first pair work with my old ZS3 stock mic cable on the S8.
> 
> ...



If you havn't yet try a free app called "soundabout". It can help designate audio outs with phones. I had that problem with my M8 and Soundabout fixed it.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 30, 2017)

acia said:


>


I've got no clue as to what is going on here. I see Campfire Orion, bottom piece of Campfire Nova, black painted ZS5 with red bore??, something broken, KZ stock cable, random driver... If you are reshelling ZS5, would you share the details about the amount of glue inside, where to get original Campfire Andromeda style shell etc.


----------



## toddy0191

Skullophile said:


> If you havn't yet try a free app called "soundabout". It can help designate audio outs with phones. I had that problem with my M8 and Soundabout fixed it.


Thanks.

Have tried that but sadly it doesn't work. 

If I plug the ZS3 in with the ZS5 stock cable, it works and if I then replace each zs3 earpiece with the ZS5 ones whilst it's still plugged in it works.

Am completely bamboozled!!!!


----------



## groucho69

toddy0191 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Have tried that but sadly it doesn't work.
> 
> ...


----------



## Skullophile

Toddy they must have totally fudged your cable at the factory... The fudge packing factory!


----------



## groucho69

Skullophile said:


> Toddy they must have totally fudged your cable at the factory... The fudge packing factory!


----------



## toddy0191

Skullophile said:


> Toddy they must have totally fudged your cable at the factory... The fudge packing factory!



It's fine with other phones and DAPs though. I'll just have to use them with my fiio E6 when using my phone as that bypasses whatever problem's occurring.

Can't blame the fudge packers for this, as I think it's a quirk with the S8. Hopefully someone else with the international version of the phone buys them too to see if it's just me.


----------



## khighly

Triple button mic cable does not work on my Pixel XL.


----------



## Slater (Jun 30, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I've got no clue as to what is going on here. I see Campfire Orion, bottom piece of Campfire Nova, black painted ZS5 with red bore??, something broken, KZ stock cable, random driver... If you are reshelling ZS5, would you share the details about the amount of glue inside, where to get original Campfire Andromeda style shell etc.



C'mon man - we all see what's going on. You don't see?!? Look real hard. Like REALLLY hard. Squint if you need to!


----------



## Vidal

toddy0191 said:


> Can't blame the fudge packers for this, as I think it's a quirk with the S8. Hopefully someone else with the international version of the phone buys them too to see if it's just me.



Does the S8 do that with other earphones?


----------



## toddy0191

Vidal said:


> Does the S8 do that with other earphones?



No, everything else works 100% fine. It's a decent source actually with a decent DAC.


----------



## Vidal

toddy0191 said:


> No, everything else works 100% fine. It's a decent source actually with a decent DAC.



Some phones seem to do pretty well, most people slate the iPhone but it works well with the ZS5. I have an Aegis Cozoy DAC that's pretty powerful that I sometimes use but just don't need it with the ZS5.

The Cozoy can drive full size cans like the AKG Q701 fairly well


----------



## toddy0191

Vidal said:


> Some phones seem to do pretty well, most people slate the iPhone but it works well with the ZS5. I have an Aegis Cozoy DAC that's pretty powerful that I sometimes use but just don't need it with the ZS5.
> 
> The Cozoy can drive full size cans like the AKG Q701 fairly well



Have a Topping NX2 (mediocre DAC but great amp) and a fiio E6 which I'm currently using with the ZS5 either out of my phone or my Xduoo X3.

I think they really shine with a bit more power; seems to have tighter bass and better separation, although this is probably just in my head!!


----------



## groucho69

toddy0191 said:


> Have a Topping NX2 (mediocre DAC but great amp) and a fiio E6 which I'm currently using with the ZS5 either out of my phone or my Xduoo X3.
> 
> I think they really shine with a bit more power; seems to have tighter bass and better separation, although this is probably just in my head!!


----------



## CoiL

Ok guys. Got my ZS5 few days ago. 

You know guys I`m pretty hard on KZ IEMs and this time I`m going to be also.

Haven`t had much time with ZS5 but out of my iBasso DX5X these are sonically very very good and are certainly #1 KZ IEM.

For my ears they are very well tuned and have almost no faults. Almost. Will do more listening when I have time off my babycare. So far with bundled KZ starline smallest tips they seem to have very slightly looser bass I would wish for but too soon to tell.
Will have to do more tip-rolling & listening. Also, atm I have only stock cable with wire earguides (looks like dark turquoise) and haven`t measured its impedance or tried another cable.

Will update sometime soon...


----------



## Duncan (Jul 2, 2017)

toddy0191 said:


> It's fine with other phones and DAPs though. I'll just have to use them with my fiio E6 when using my phone as that bypasses whatever problem's occurring.
> 
> Can't blame the fudge packers for this, as I think it's a quirk with the S8. Hopefully someone else with the international version of the phone buys them too to see if it's just me.


Strangely I had that when demo'ing oBravo IEMs a couple of weeks back = only one of the models (well, cables) - absolutely no idea why!

In other news, I bought on a whim, a pair of the black ZSTs - even though I paid over the odds, being in the UK, for the budget price, I'm flabbergasted, when comparing to much more expensive IEMs in my collection...

Sure the fit is lousy (popping out of my ears, unless I use foamies), and the bass is hideously overblown (for me), but if this is what can be got for £20 - then the established market really needs to wake up - and fast!

Edit:



CoiL said:


> Ok guys. Got my ZS5 few days ago.
> 
> You know guys I`m pretty hard on KZ IEMs and this time I`m going to be also.
> 
> ...



On the basis of my few minutes with the ZST, and your points, just spent some more money...


----------



## Francisk

Duncan said:


> Strangely I had that when demo'ing oBravo IEMs a couple of weeks back = only one of the models (well, cables) - absolutely no idea why!
> 
> In other news, I bought on a whim, a pair of the black ZSTs - even though I paid over the odds, being in the UK, for the budget price, I'm flabbergasted, when comparing to much more expensive IEMs in my collection...
> 
> Sure the fit is lousy (popping out of my ears, unless I use foamies), and the bass is hideously overblown (for me), but if this is what can be got for £20 - then the established market really needs to wake up - and fast!


If the ZST surprises you then you should give the ZS5 a shot and pair it with the Comply T400 tips...I'm sure you won't be disappointed  Yes, this is definitely a wake up call for the Big Boys


----------



## Duncan

Francisk said:


> If the ZST surprises you then you should give the ZS5 a shot and pair it with the Comply T400 tips...I'm sure you won't be disappointed  Yes, this is definitely a wake up call for the Big Boys


I edited my post whilst you was quoting...  just ordered a pair


----------



## Spelaeus

Duncan said:


> In other news, I bought on a whim, a pair of the black ZSTs - even though I paid over the odds, being in the UK, for the budget price, I'm flabbergasted, when comparing to much more expensive IEMs in my collection...
> 
> Sure the fit is lousy (popping out of my ears, unless I use foamies), and the bass is hideously overblown (for me), but if this is what can be got for £20 - then the established market really needs to wake up - and fast!


If you're having problems with the ZST popping out of your ears, you may want to try removing the memory wire. That fixed the problem for me, as well as for a few others here. They are now one of the most comfortable IEMs I own.


----------



## Duncan

Spelaeus said:


> If you're having problems with the ZST popping out of your ears, you may want to try removing the memory wire. That fixed the problem for me, as well as for a few others here. They are now one of the most comfortable IEMs I own.


Thanks for the tip... erm... cable advice 

I dug out my old Beat Cronus cable, and that did the trick 

Seems somewhat lopsided logic, using a cable that is approx 15x the cost of the IEM it is plugged in to but - it works, very well as it goes


----------



## Francisk (Jul 2, 2017)

Duncan said:


> I edited my post whilst you was quoting...  just ordered a pair


I just received my ZST (color edition) 2 days ago and I'm enjoying it with the Comply T400 tips. ZS5 has slightly more refined highs and slightly better sound stage than ZST but I prefer the slightly more forward mids of the ZST (color edition). The ZST (color edition) is slightly more efficient than the ZS5. For outdoor use with my S7 Edge, I prefer the ZST (color edition) due to it's slightly better efficiency. Generally both the ZS5 and ZST (color edition) are tuned quite similar.

Like what Spelaeus recommended, I too removed the memory wire from both my ZS5 and ZST and they're definitely much more comfortable now.


----------



## Vidal

Duncan said:


> .....just ordered a pair



If you find the ZSTs too bassy the ZS5 will be as well. The bass of the current ZST was turned down compared to the first gen.


----------



## Duncan

Vidal said:


> If you find the ZSTs too bassy the ZS5 will be as well. The bass of the current ZST was turned down compared to the first gen.


Doesn't sound too promising, but fun for rock / metal...  may well be my go to for that...

Sideline point, the build quality is shockingly poor, this pair is essentially an open design as the shells aren't clipped together properly, and I cannot seem to squeeze them closed...

Fun nonetheless.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Hm, my ZST Colorfuls have been traveling with me and have held up quite well actually.  Thank goodness because they're my only IEM while I'm abroad.


----------



## ricemanhk

Duncan said:


> Doesn't sound too promising, but fun for rock / metal...  may well be my go to for that...
> 
> Sideline point, the build quality is shockingly poor, this pair is essentially an open design as the shells aren't clipped together properly, and I cannot seem to squeeze them closed...
> 
> Fun nonetheless.



Hehe welcome to the KZ family!  The seam on the ZST APPEARS to be a fault, but it's actually done on purpose.  Near the back (where it says ZST hifi armature or something like that) there are actually 3 vents built into that seam.


----------



## khighly (Jul 3, 2017)

After listening to the ZS5 for a week now and going back to the ZST's, the ZS5'S seem much more flat, but still have the same fun characteristics that make the ZST so great.

ZS5's have much less bass, but it's more in line with the mid bass and neutral.

18Khz peak.
12Hz low.

Small Dip from 1.95Khz to 2.1Khz
Steep Dip from 3.6Khz to 4.7Khz

Rest of the range sounds fairly flat. These are completely recording/mastering dependent.


----------



## Vidal

Duncan said:


> Sideline point, the build quality is shockingly poor, this pair is essentially an open design as the shells aren't clipped together properly, and I cannot seem to squeeze them closed...





ricemanhk said:


> Hehe welcome to the KZ family!  The seam on the ZST APPEARS to be a fault, but it's actually done on purpose.  Near the back (where it says ZST hifi armature or something like that) there are actually 3 vents built into that seam.



The ZS5 also has vent along the seam, it appears to be just shoddy workmanship but again like the ZST it's intentional.


----------



## ricemanhk

Vidal said:


> The ZS5 also has vent along the seam, it appears to be just shoddy workmanship but again like the ZST it's intentional.



I would say the ZS5 seam is much thinner than the ZSTs....I also thought it was a QC issue for my ZST until I saw the vents haha


----------



## Duncan

ahh, cool, thanks for advising...  I just won't use them in the rain then


----------



## peskypesky

SomeTechNoob said:


> Thank goodness because they're my only IEM while I'm abroad.


are you in some country where IEM's are outlawed?


----------



## Lord Rexter

Skullophile said:


> I hope they're doing what you think they're doing.
> And Cya, I'm searching out a balanced cable for ZS5 before I join the club. Anyone have links for a 2.5mm cable that will fit it?



I just ordered 2.5mm cable for ZS3/ZS5 from Aliexpress link (one of the cheapest options I could find, looks like balanced cable to me but there's no mention of it on the site) yesterday, waiting for it to be shipped out to me. Hope this helps.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

peskypesky said:


> are you in some country where IEM's are outlawed?



I didn't want to bring a ton of stuff since I'm moving a lot, so I brought along my CB-1s and ZSTs.  Pretty inexpensive and sound signatures vary enough for me to survive a month or two without my other phones.

I do miss some good midrange though...

I mean I could always purchase new IEMs, but I don't know any of the shops around here.  Everything I've seen are fake apple earpods haha.


----------



## snip3r77

Just received my ZS5, need to do the phase check as one my insert the cable wrongly.
I'm using the largest provided startip and enjoying atm.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 3, 2017)

Bottom line guys, I've never heard sound quality like the ZST and ZS5 at the asking price. This is not hyping....but an honest truth.


----------



## Modulus

I FINALLY received my ZS5 after waiting over 40 days, having ordered during the pre-order phase.

I will post a more thorough review after a bit more use, but my initial impressions are very positive, they do sounds pretty damn good, and I was lucky enough to get the "premium" box with magnetic lid and 6 pairs of tips. Nice.

*Quick summary. *

*Sound:* 
Great sound overall, wide soundstage, high energy treble without sibilance, good instrument separation, nice tight bass, I'm not noticing bass bloat like others have reported. I have noticed a dip around the 6k range, which is where vocals are at, making them recede into the mix just a bit. I've pushed up this frequency with EQ quite significantly and it comes out sounding really great.

I've only tested with my Sony Z5, need to get it plugged into my AudioGD for some critical listening. But having used them for a couple days on my daily commute, they sound very very good.

*Build quality:* 
The cable. Oh boy... why would they make a rubberized cable? It's predictably sticky, which means it will be more prone to tangling and snagging on clothing. It's not terrible, but it's a curious choice. I don't understand why they would use this material. I did order the silver cable additionally, which is very soft, comfortable and feels great.

That said, the microphone and control toggle feels fantastic, it's made of metal and the buttons have a nice tactile click. These are important factors for me since I listen when I cycle or commute and need to change tracks frequently. Very nice buttons with a premium feel.

The memory wire is not too bad for me, I don't have any problems with comfort. Though I do find the 'star' nozzle tips are too hard and uncomfortable, so I'm using the other softer ones.

*Improvements:*
The sound is great for the price, I'm very happy in that department, where I think KZ really need to improve their game is in their attention to detail in the overall package. They could easily make these an absolute killer by doing the following: spend less on premium packaging, put that money into including the silver cable as default WITH microphone and controls (why can't I get the silver with controls!?). Forget about those star tips, they suck, include fake comply foam tips in addition to the silicone ones. And boom, just like that you've got an absolutely savage killer of an IEM.


----------



## Slater (Jul 3, 2017)

Never mind - 20 other people mentioned the ZST vents.

Anyways, have a nice 4th, and a big thanks to those who fight and have fought to protect our freeedom.


----------



## bjaardker

Modulus said:


> Forget about those star tips, they suck, include fake comply foam tips in addition to the silicone ones.


 You may not care for the starlines, but there are an awful lot of people who seek out the starline tips (myself included). They're not my first choice, but there are some IEMs that have worked really well with them and would be unusable for me with a different tip.

I personally dislike SpinFits and think they're garbage. Haven't worked for me on any IEM i've tried them on. Have yet to get a decent seal with them. But I don't fault a manufacturer for including them since I know some people like them.


----------



## Slater

bjaardker said:


> You may not care for the starlines, but there are an awful lot of people who seek out the starline tips (myself included). They're not my first choice, but there are some IEMs that have worked really well with them and would be unusable for me with a different tip.
> 
> I personally dislike SpinFits and think they're garbage. Haven't worked for me on any IEM i've tried them on. Have yet to get a decent seal with them. But I don't fault a manufacturer for including them since I know some people like them.



+1. I love the Starlines, and use them on at least 50% of my IEMs.


----------



## Holypal

The memory cable is fking


Modulus said:


> I FINALLY received my ZS5 after waiting over 40 days, having ordered during the pre-order phase.
> 
> I will post a more thorough review after a bit more use, but my initial impressions are very positive, they do sounds pretty damn good, and I was lucky enough to get the "premium" box with magnetic lid and 6 pairs of tips. Nice.
> 
> ...



The "premium" box is really nice. I only got the small box, which only has three pairs of tips in total.


----------



## Slater (Jul 3, 2017)

bjaardker said:


> You may not care for the starlines, but there are an awful lot of people who seek out the starline tips (myself included). They're not my first choice, but there are some IEMs that have worked really well with them and would be unusable for me with a different tip.
> 
> I personally dislike SpinFits and think they're garbage. Haven't worked for me on any IEM i've tried them on. Have yet to get a decent seal with them. But I don't fault a manufacturer for including them since I know some people like them.



Some other good tip options:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...earbuds-ear-tips-ear-pad-for/32736006455.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-P...buds-Headset-Eartips-Earplug/32552830443.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-P...-Covers-Eartips-For-Earphone/32517890815.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8pc...eadphone-earphone-earbud-top/32643318712.html

For the 1st ones (Sony Hybrids), you can also do the foam mod and take cheapy orange foam earplugs, trim off the tip, punch a hole in the center with a hole punch, and install them inside of the silicone tips. The best of both worlds between a foam and a silicone - a DIY hybrid similar to the true Sony Hybrids or the Symbios.


----------



## mattpker

I got the KZ ZS5 last week. Really loving it so far but the cable makes a lot of noise when it moves or is touched. I think you guys call this "microphonic"? Can anyone confirm if the upgraded silver cable does not have this issue? Also, my Sure SE215's have a sliding thing on the cable so that when you run the cable behind your back you can tighten it on the back of your head to help it from moving around/coming out (I use these for playing guitar live). Does anyone know of an upgraded cable that has this feature or a product I can get to add it to a cable?


----------



## khighly

bjaardker said:


> You may not care for the starlines, but there are an awful lot of people who seek out the starline tips (myself included). They're not my first choice, but there are some IEMs that have worked really well with them and would be unusable for me with a different tip.
> 
> I personally dislike SpinFits and think they're garbage. Haven't worked for me on any IEM i've tried them on. Have yet to get a decent seal with them. But I don't fault a manufacturer for including them since I know some people like them.



I feel exactly the same. Starlines are my favorite all around while spinfits are hot garbage. They're too thin and have a very slippery texture that doesn't seal even with their largest size. I use a medium starline.


----------



## ricemanhk

mattpker said:


> I got the KZ ZS5 last week. Really loving it so far but the cable makes a lot of noise when it moves or is touched. I think you guys call this "microphonic"? Can anyone confirm if the upgraded silver cable does not have this issue? Also, my Sure SE215's have a sliding thing on the cable so that when you run the cable behind your back you can tighten it on the back of your head to help it from moving around/coming out (I use these for playing guitar live). Does anyone know of an upgraded cable that has this feature or a product I can get to add it to a cable?



Strange, I don't have THAT much microphonics with the stock cable.  But indeed the silver or gold cable should be a bit better based on my experience with ZST/ZS3.

IIRC the silver cable has a slider but not the stock one?  Though you could always just use a clip or even the wire tie that came with the cable, a free and effective solution.


----------



## ezekiel77

mattpker said:


> I got the KZ ZS5 last week. Really loving it so far but the cable makes a lot of noise when it moves or is touched. I think you guys call this "microphonic"? Can anyone confirm if the upgraded silver cable does not have this issue? Also, my Sure SE215's have a sliding thing on the cable so that when you run the cable behind your back you can tighten it on the back of your head to help it from moving around/coming out (I use these for playing guitar live). Does anyone know of an upgraded cable that has this feature or a product I can get to add it to a cable?



The upgrade silver cable does not have a chin slider. It bothers me too, but at $7 and with excellent ergonomics I can't complain. They're miles better than the rubbery stock cables.

And as riceman has said, you can use the wire twist included with the cable as a makeshift.


----------



## CoiL

Can You guys confirm that those KZ upgrade cables are actually silver coated or do they oxidize (turn greenish under PVC) after awhile? 
So far I have gotten only one great silver coated cable from AE for relatively cheap price and it doesn`t oxidize and actually has low impedance as it should.
Not like Tennmak upgrade cable for example which has 1.2 Ohm impedance and oxidizes.


----------



## ricemanhk

CoiL said:


> Can You guys confirm that those KZ upgrade cables are actually silver coated or do they oxidize (turn greenish under PVC) after awhile?
> So far I have gotten only one great silver coated cable from AE for relatively cheap price and it doesn`t oxidize and actually has low impedance as it should.
> Not like Tennmak upgrade cable for example which has 1.2 Ohm impedance and oxidizes.



Mine is still fine after 7 months, but some have said theirs is starting to turn green.


----------



## Vidal

CoiL said:


> So far I have gotten only one great silver coated cable from AE for relatively cheap price and it doesn`t oxidize and actually has low impedance as it should.



Can you share the name of the decent cable? I'm always on the lookout for decent upgrade bits, I kinda gave up on Ali recently......


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Yeah pretty recently there were some pictures of greening silver cables.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Can You guys confirm that those KZ upgrade cables are actually silver coated or do they oxidize (turn greenish under PVC) after awhile?
> So far I have gotten only one great silver coated cable from AE for relatively cheap price and it doesn`t oxidize and actually has low impedance as it should.
> Not like Tennmak upgrade cable for example which has 1.2 Ohm impedance and oxidizes.



Mine have all turned green under the pvc.


----------



## Envinite

In my case, KZ silver cable turned green within 3 months of usage. Somebody in headfi forum stated that this was because the moisture build up on the cable, exposed to heat for longer duration, and the PVC have chemical reaction with the copper/coating, yadda yadda..... and thus turned it green. 

Could have been the case tho, because I usually make it wet by using it when riding my bike while raining, and I live in tropical area. Still, take this info with a grain of salt.







Honestly, why even bother with it. It doesn't affect the performance at all, just a minor aesthetic issue.


----------



## Slater (Jul 4, 2017)

Envinite said:


> In my case, KZ silver cable turned green within 3 months of usage. Somebody in headfi forum stated that this was because the moisture build up on the cable, exposed to heat for longer duration, and the PVC have chemical reaction with the copper/coating, yadda yadda..... and thus turned it green.
> 
> Could have been the case tho, because I usually make it wet by using it when riding my bike while raining, and I live in tropical area. Still, take this info with a grain of salt.
> 
> Honestly, why even bother with it. It doesn't affect the performance at all, just a minor aesthetic issue.



PVC is actually moisture-resistant, which is one of the reasons it's such a widespread wire insulator.

The reason for the discoloration of the conducting wire is because PVC has compounds in it (sulfur and others) that react with the copper to form oxides and/or sulfides, turning the conductor green or black. Cable manufacturers combat this discoloration by adding "copper passivators", such as BTA (benzotriazole).

As you pointed out, it technically doesn't hurt the cable or affect it's current carrying capacity, but it is aesthetically undesirable (especially with a clear insulator like we commonly see with the silver plated audio cables).


----------



## Duncan

Well, my ZS5 turned up today, and the slightly leaner balance compared to the ZST works for me really well...

Interestingly, the eBay seller I bought from is probably on the forums somewhere, threw in a pair of "Daono 21" microdriver IEMs, mentioning head-fi...

Will have to try them out


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Jul 4, 2017)

Francisk said:


> Like what aleksanderp mentioned, go to http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and scroll down to the "Wiring" section and check the polarity by testing "Center" (in phase) and "Twisted" (out of phase). If the IEM is in phase, you should hear the sound as dead center without hollowness eg. when you clcik "Center" you should hear a solid "dead center" sound without hollowness. When you click on "Twisted", you should hear the same sound but it will sound hollow. If that is the case, your IEM is wired correctly...if not your IEM is out of phase. If the sound is the other way around, just reverse the polarity of the cable only on one side of your IEM and check again. If this solves the phase problem then you've got your problem solved. Hope this helps.



My ZS5 are here!

Currently trying with the silver cable, and testing for this. I think they are OK with regard to phase!

Centre Is at a lower volume, but feels in one place.
Twisted sounds like it is louder, but has a slight bouncy-news between the two ears. Would that imply all is OK?

Also I tried the binaural test, and what the hell, I thought someone was knocked on my door and went to open it!

Going to test against my IE80 later (which I have moulded in ear tips) and will pass on feedback


----------



## Vidal

CardigdanWalk said:


> Also I tried the binaural test, and what the hell, I thought someone was knocked on my door and went to open it!



Yes, I did that as well. Well, I told the wife to stop messing about knocking on the wall, followed by apologising and getting called a dickhead much to her amusement.


----------



## groucho69

Vidal said:


> Yes, I did that as well. Well, I told the wife to stop messing about knocking on the wall, followed by apologising and getting called a dickhead much to her amusement.



Well now you missed him...


----------



## Mindstorms

Hi guys can u update on this zs vs IE80? i have the later and want to get some hq ZS can u suggest me the best ones so far ty in advance


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> Also I tried the binaural test, and what the hell, I thought someone was knocked on my door and went to open it!



haha, that test gets me every time!


----------



## Duncan

The ZS5 definitely cannot handle volume in the same way that the ZST can, which disappoints me slightly...  great tonality for the money, but the ZS5 breaks up at relatively modest volumes, at least in my case, and I'm only using an iPhone 7S and Galaxy S8+

Keeping the volume in check the ZS5 is superior, but if wanting to crank up the volume is the aim of your game, the ZST is definitely the better of the two IMO.


----------



## toddy0191

Duncan said:


> The ZS5 definitely cannot handle volume in the same way that the ZST can, which disappoints me slightly...  great tonality for the money, but the ZS5 breaks up at relatively modest volumes, at least in my case, and I'm only using an iPhone 7S and Galaxy S8+
> 
> Keeping the volume in check the ZS5 is superior, but if wanting to crank up the volume is the aim of your game, the ZST is definitely the better of the two IMO.



Are you using the stock cable with your S8+ ?


----------



## Duncan

toddy0191 said:


> Are you using the stock cable with your S8+ ?


No, my Beat Cronus cable...  the only aftermarket 2 pin cable I have (  )


----------



## toddy0191

Duncan said:


> No, my Beat Cronus cable...  the only aftermarket 2 pin cable I have (  )



Cheers.

Don't know if you saw my earlier post about the KZ cables (silver and stock with and without mic) not working on my S8?

If you don't mind checking, I am curious to see if they work using the stock cable with your S8+ as this will identify whether it's possibly just my phone.?


----------



## nplateau

Duncan said:


> The ZS5 definitely cannot handle volume in the same way that the ZST can, which disappoints me slightly...  great tonality for the money, but the ZS5 breaks up at relatively modest volumes, at least in my case, and I'm only using an iPhone 7S and Galaxy S8+
> 
> Keeping the volume in check the ZS5 is superior, but if wanting to crank up the volume is the aim of your game, the ZST is definitely the better of the two IMO.



This has been my experience as well.  Push the volume too far, and the bass bloat gets really sloppy.  Keep it at moderate levels, and it really shines.


----------



## Duncan

toddy0191 said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Don't know if you saw my earlier post about the KZ cables (silver and stock with and without mic) not working on my S8?
> 
> If you don't mind checking, I am curious to see if they work using the stock cable with your S8+ as this will identify whether it's possibly just my phone.?


It isn't your phone, I think I quoted you a couple of pages back, mentioning that I was demoing several pairs of oBravo IEMs a couple of weeks back, and one of those (cables, bearing in mind they're detachable) didn't work either.

Makes me wonder if Samsung have been very marginal with their tolerances for the pole width on the jack... Causing perceived faults if ever so slightly off.


----------



## Francisk

CardigdanWalk said:


> My ZS5 are here!
> 
> Currently trying with the silver cable, and testing for this. I think they are OK with regard to phase!
> 
> ...


Looks like your ZS5 is perfectly fine without phase issue. The binaural test fooled many including me...lol.


----------



## Francisk

Duncan said:


> The ZS5 definitely cannot handle volume in the same way that the ZST can, which disappoints me slightly...  great tonality for the money, but the ZS5 breaks up at relatively modest volumes, at least in my case, and I'm only using an iPhone 7S and Galaxy S8+
> 
> Keeping the volume in check the ZS5 is superior, but if wanting to crank up the volume is the aim of your game, the ZST is definitely the better of the two IMO.


Yes, the ZST is slightly more efficient than the ZS5 probably because it's easier to drive 2 drivers per side as opposed to 4 drivers per side on the ZS5. ZST plays slightly louder and sound more dynamic on my S7 Edge compared to ZS5. Mids on the ZST is a little more forward than the ZS5 too.


----------



## slackerpo

i tried the ZS5 during the weekend and they heavily distorted with the c5d in high volume (low gain), wich it didnt happen with the ZST.


----------



## Duncan

slackerpo said:


> i tried the ZS5 during the weekend and they heavily distorted with the c5d in high volume (low gain), wich it didnt happen with the ZST.


Thanks for confirming for me that I'm not alone


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## ricemanhk

Checked my ZST silver cable last night, still fully silver and can't find a speck of green anywhere.  I haven't used them as much, but they're sitting in a drawer in a tropical humid climate.

BTW my KZ BT module arrived, works pretty well with the ZST.  You do hear the compression with BT but it's not so bad, definitely better sounding than my JBL BT minis.
The cable is a bit too long though, and I took out the memory wire right away, but since the cable is meant to rest behind your neck, the over the ear design doesn't work super well coz there's nothing weighing it down.  So I'm using the silicone earguides


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> Checked my ZST silver cable last night, still fully silver and can't find a speck of green anywhere.  I haven't used them as much, but they're sitting in a drawer in a tropical humid climate.
> 
> BTW my KZ BT module arrived, works pretty well with the ZST.  You do hear the compression with BT but it's not so bad, definitely better sounding than my JBL BT minis.
> The cable is a bit too long though, and I took out the memory wire right away, but since the cable is meant to rest behind your neck, the over the ear design doesn't work super well coz there's nothing weighing it down.  So I'm using the silicone earguides



It will in time. Takes 3-6 months before you start to notice a faint green tinge. Then a few months after that it will be blatantly obvious.

I hope my BT cable shows up soon - I'm getting tired of waiting!


----------



## ricemanhk

slaterlovesspam said:


> It will in time. Takes 3-6 months before you start to notice a faint green tinge. Then a few months after that it will be blatantly obvious.
> 
> I hope my BT cable shows up soon - I'm getting tired of waiting!



My silver cable is 7 months old...still nothing yet.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

About 3 months here, so far so good.


----------



## Saoshyant

What's everyone using to remove the memory wire?  I know some people mention nail clippers, but it's an awfully thin pvc which makes me slightly wary.  Then again if I mess up, I do have the other cable.


----------



## ricemanhk

Saoshyant said:


> What's everyone using to remove the memory wire?  I know some people mention nail clippers, but it's an awfully thin pvc which makes me slightly wary.  Then again if I mess up, I do have the other cable.



The metal wire and the actual cable are sheathed under those heat shrink wrap. I line up the metal wire facing up, then use a box cutter to shave off the edge of the heat shrink wrap with the metal wire underneath, so there's limited risk in cutting into the actual cable.  Once the heat shrink wrap is taken off, then use either a nail clipper (altho you might ding it up) or just bend the wire back and forth (what I did) and eventually it'll snap off.  Trim the remaining heat shrink wrap if there's any left.


----------



## Envinite

Legit question: Does 'burn in' can fix a dynamic driver that produce an unwanted trembling sound?

Again, I have received a problematic KZ unit. This time I ordered a KZ ZST candy version and it sounds like the right unit have less bass, and if I tested it with oscillator, it will give an obvious trembling-like sound when producing sine wave at around 60 Hz frequency. My best guess is that the dynamic driver probably either have a pierced diaphragm or loose voice coil, though maybe the diaphragm not flexible enough and requires a burn in? Idk. Previously I bought a carbon KZ ZST and the left unit have the same problem. Tried to fix my carbon ZST but ended up tearing the dynamic driver and the connecting voice coil when prying it. 

Seriously what the hell, 2 out of 3 purchase have QC issue. I want to return this unit, but since return and resend fee is not free from this seller, and I'll be pissed if I receive another defective unit.
Really wondering what sheaningans awaits for those who already bought the ZS5 and expecting the upcoming ZSR.

Side note: I'm loving this new candy ZST cable with memory wire. That ZST carbon cable with weights is probably the dumbest idea I've ever seen.


----------



## Keller2

Nail clippers do the job but you just need to take your time and make sure you're just cutting the outer wrap and not touching the inside. 
I already have 1 casualty cable - the original one that came with my zs3.


Also i'm pretty sure the distortion on the ZS5 is the problem i'm having. It just doesn't sound right. I'm not sure what it is. I thought it was the mids at first but now i'm pretty sure there's something wrong with my ZS5 in particullar. It's almost like the sound is not coherent.


----------



## snip3r77

Keller2 said:


> Nail clippers do the job but you just need to take your time and make sure you're just cutting the outer wrap and not touching the inside.
> I already have 1 casualty cable - the original one that came with my zs3.
> 
> 
> Also i'm pretty sure the distortion on the ZS5 is the problem i'm having. It just doesn't sound right. I'm not sure what it is. I thought it was the mids at first but now i'm pretty sure there's something wrong with my ZS5 in particullar. It's almost like the sound is not coherent.



I don't have any distortion with my ZS5 at the volume setting I'm listening to.


----------



## Saoshyant

ricemanhk said:


> The metal wire and the actual cable are sheathed under those heat shrink wrap. I line up the metal wire facing up, then use a box cutter to shave off the edge of the heat shrink wrap with the metal wire underneath, so there's limited risk in cutting into the actual cable.  Once the heat shrink wrap is taken off, then use either a nail clipper (altho you might ding it up) or just bend the wire back and forth (what I did) and eventually it'll snap off.  Trim the remaining heat shrink wrap if there's any left.



Thanks.  The standard cable was easy work, with the wrapping removable by finger nail.  The silver cable was a bit trickier work as it stuck to the cable itself, so required quite a bit more effort to thoroughly remove.


----------



## Sylmar

Saoshyant said:


> Thanks.  The standard cable was easy work, with the wrapping removable by finger nail.  The silver cable was a bit trickier work as it stuck to the cable itself, so required quite a bit more effort to thoroughly remove.





Saoshyant said:


> What's everyone using to remove the memory wire?  I know some people mention nail clippers, but it's an awfully thin pvc which makes me slightly wary.  Then again if I mess up, I do have the other cable.



True, the standard cable is easier. I just tore it out with moderate force and used pliers to remove it from the connector housing. The silver cable's sheathing is of a sturdier material and should probably be handled with more care.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Envinite said:


> Legit question: Does 'burn in' can fix a dynamic driver that produce an unwanted trembling sound?
> 
> Again, I have received a problematic KZ unit. This time I ordered a KZ ZST candy version and it sounds like the right unit have less bass, and if I tested it with oscillator, it will give an obvious trembling-like sound when producing sine wave at around 60 Hz frequency. My best guess is that the dynamic driver probably either have a pierced diaphragm or loose voice coil, though maybe the diaphragm not flexible enough and requires a burn in? Idk. Previously I bought a carbon KZ ZST and the left unit have the same problem. Tried to fix my carbon ZST but ended up tearing the dynamic driver and the connecting voice coil when prying it.
> 
> ...


You can try pairing your Right Carbon ZST with the Left Colorful ZST. I think that would look pretty nice.


----------



## Slater

Envinite said:


> Legit question: Does 'burn in' can fix a dynamic driver that produce an unwanted trembling sound?
> 
> Again, I have received a problematic KZ unit. This time I ordered a KZ ZST candy version and it sounds like the right unit have less bass, and if I tested it with oscillator, it will give an obvious trembling-like sound when producing sine wave at around 60 Hz frequency. My best guess is that the dynamic driver probably either have a pierced diaphragm or loose voice coil, though maybe the diaphragm not flexible enough and requires a burn in? Idk. Previously I bought a carbon KZ ZST and the left unit have the same problem. Tried to fix my carbon ZST but ended up tearing the dynamic driver and the connecting voice coil when prying it.
> 
> ...



What about just using your 1 good right carbon with your 1 good left colorful?

I know that doesn't address your QC complaints, but at least you'd have a working pair of ZSTs with good sound.


----------



## Duncan

snip3r77 said:


> I don't have any distortion with my ZS5 at the volume setting I'm listening to.


There is obviously a thing of how loudly you may wish / do listen...

The ZS5 crumbles at about 3/5 volume on iPhone 7, but the ZST keeps going and going...

The ZS5 sounds relatively nice at low volumes though


----------



## CoiL

Vidal said:


> Can you share the name of the decent cable? I'm always on the lookout for decent upgrade bits, I kinda gave up on Ali recently......


I think it was this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Nic...-Cable-For-Shure-SE535-SE315/32711295815.html
At least mine also says MPS on the jack housing.


----------



## CoiL

Duncan said:


> There is obviously a thing of how loudly you may wish / do listen...
> 
> The ZS5 crumbles at about 3/5 volume on iPhone 7, but the ZST keeps going and going...
> 
> The ZS5 sounds relatively nice at low volumes though


My ZS5 sounds also ok and haven`t noticed any distortion yet... but I haven`t gone much over my regular head-banging vol level though. 
Driving my ZS5 with iBasso DX5X (upgraded opamps and other little bits) + custom FW and FLAC files.
Also haven`t tried other gear yet. Will leave feedback if I get distortion somehow. 
So far, I still rate them #1 KZ IEM sonically.


----------



## Podster

Still waiting on my ZS5's to get here but ZST is still KZ king for me at the moment


----------



## trumpethead

Francisk said:


> Yes, the ZST is slightly more efficient than the ZS5 probably because it's easier to drive 2 drivers per side as opposed to 4 drivers per side on the ZS5. ZST plays slightly louder and sound more dynamic on my S7 Edge compared to ZS5. Mids on the ZST is a little more forward than the ZS5 too.



I think you might be right. When sufficient power is sent to the ZS5 the ZST is no match imo...no breaking up on the 5 when it is amped...very impressive sound overall. ..


----------



## Slater

trumpethead said:


> I think you might be right. When sufficient power is sent to the ZS5 the ZST is no match imo...no breaking up on the 5 when it is amped...very impressive sound overall. ..



So basically am I understanding this correct in that the distortion people are reporting is because the ZS5 needs to be amped for best performance? And once amped, the ZS5 can be cranked with no distortion?


----------



## acia

slaterlovesspam said:


> So basically am I understanding this correct in that the distortion people are reporting is because the ZS5 needs to be amped for best performance? And once amped, the ZS5 can be cranked with no distortion?


I was jeered when I reports all 3 pair of zs5 got distortion at high volume


----------



## Vidal

I'm listening to my ZS5 at 60% - 70% on my iPhone 6S and there's no distortion, with the Cozoy Aegis it's about 30% and no distortion but I wouldn't put it much louder as it'd damage my ears.


----------



## Indrajit

Hi can anyone say which has the larger soundstage between KZ HDS3 and KZ ED9


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

At levels for normal listening the ZS5 does not distort, I haven't tried playing them louder as that would destroy my hearing.

Also these tips are excellent on the ZS5: https://www.facebook.com/MandarinEsFoam/


----------



## Indrajit

zzhead said:


> My HDS 3 has arrived.
> 
> Hi to all,
> I received today the "new" HDS3.
> ...



Hi how is the soundstage on KZ HDS3 vs KZ ED9 ?


----------



## snip3r77

Oscar-HiFi said:


> At levels for normal listening the ZS5 does not distort, I haven't tried playing them louder as that would destroy my hearing.
> 
> Also these tips are excellent on the ZS5: https://www.facebook.com/MandarinEsFoam/



I think it's overpriced w.r.t the IEM . I'm using the JVC Spirals. It's damn good already.


----------



## acia

cables received. 

pictures over in taobao in comment parts.

【4N纯银 铜银混编VSD3 VSD3S ZS3 ZS5升级线 2.5 4级平衡线】，点击链接再选择浏览器打开http://c.b1yt.com/h.PAmMha?cv=L41VZA8H1ip&sm=a3e145 ，或复制这条信息￥L41VZA8H1ip￥后打开手机淘宝


----------



## Francisk (Jul 6, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> So basically am I understanding this correct in that the distortion people are reporting is because the ZS5 needs to be amped for best performance? And once amped, the ZS5 can be cranked with no distortion?


I'm afraid not slaterlovesspam, any drivers pushed to it's limit will distort. Some drivers have higher tolerance and some lower depending on each driver's tolerance but generally speaking, it's not safe to listen to anything that reaches the distortion level which should be above 115+dB. Don't forget that 130dB is the threshold of pain. I don't think you'd want to listen to anything at that level for extended period unless you don't mind losing the ability to enjoy good music in the near future.


----------



## Slater (Jul 6, 2017)

Indrajit said:


> Hi how is the soundstage on KZ HDS3 vs KZ ED9 ?



Soundstage is really really close between the 2. I'd say they are basically identical (soundstage) to one another.

I love both the HDS3 and ED9. The ED9 has the edge because of the tuning filters, but it's heavy to wear (yet basically indestructible). The HDS3 disappears in your ear - it's so small and lightweight.

You really can't go wrong with either. But if you had to pick 1, I would personally go with the ED9.


----------



## Skullophile

Check out my mod done with acoustic dampening foam, hopefully will give slightly better isolation.
I'll try it out tomorrow and neaten it up if it works. This is done on my DZ8's but they're a similar shape to the KZ's.


----------



## Slater (Jul 6, 2017)

Francisk said:


> I'm afraid not slaterlovesspam, any drivers pushed to it's limit will distort. Some drivers have higher tolerance and some lower depending on each driver's tolerance but generally speaking, it's not safe to listen to anything that reaches the distortion level which should be above 115+dB. Don't forget that 130dB is the threshold of pain. I don't think you'd want to listen to anything at that level for extended period unless you don't mind losing the ability to enjoy good music in the near future.



I couldn't agree more, especially since I already suffer from mild hearing loss and tinitus. I'm very protective of my hearing (much moreso now than in my younger days when I was stupid).

I'm more trying to understand the amping requirements of the ZS5, and wrap my head around the reports of ZS5 distortion. I don't own a single IEM that has distortion like some are reporting. Is because their source is not optimally impedance matched? Is it because the people reporting it are simply trying to drive it too loudly? Or still, does the inclusion of the additional (4 total) drivers cause the overall distortion to be significantly lower?

Some headphones really open up and are a different animal with amping, while others make no difference whatsoever. There's plenty of times when I don't feel like carrying around the extra bulk of my amp.


----------



## Slater

Skullophile said:


> Check out my mod done with acoustic dampening foam, hopefully will give slightly better isolation.
> I'll try it out tomorrow and neaten it up if it works. This is done on my DZ8's but they're a similar shape to the KZ's.



Very interesting indeed! Looking forward to your results.


----------



## acia

4 X kz zs5 or audeze isine cable. 1 x audeze sine 1 x audeze LCD 1 x akg k712 All of excellent workmanship and highest craftsmanship available. The foil shielding could be bit hard. Much more details in instruments. And give better kick for bass. For the sine factory default cable, it definitely belongs to the bin. Offer much better before and after sales service than audeze. Nice chap, extremely responsible and reliable. only speaks chinese.need Google translate.ship overseas.


acia said:


> cables received.
> 
> pictures over in taobao in comment parts.
> 
> 【4N纯银 铜银混编VSD3 VSD3S ZS3 ZS5升级线 2.5 4级平衡线】，点击链接再选择浏览器打开http://c.b1yt.com/h.PAmMha?cv=L41VZA8H1ip&sm=a3e145 ，或复制这条信息￥L41VZA8H1ip￥后打开手机淘宝


4 X kz zs5 or audeze isine cable. 1 x audeze sine 1 x audeze LCD 1 x akg k712 All of excellent workmanship and highest craftsmanship available. The foil shielding could be bit hard. Much more details in instruments. And give better kick for bass. For the sine factory default cable, it definitely belongs to the bin. Offer much better before and after sales service than audeze. Nice chap, extremely responsible and reliable. only speaks chinese.need Google translate.ship overseas.


----------



## Slater (Jul 6, 2017)

acia said:


> 4 X kz zs5 or audeze isine cable. 1 x audeze sine 1 x audeze LCD 1 x akg k712 All of excellent workmanship and highest craftsmanship available. The foil shielding could be bit hard. Much more details in instruments. And give better kick for bass. For the sine factory default cable, it definitely belongs to the bin. Offer much better before and after sales service than audeze. Nice chap, extremely responsible and reliable. only speaks chinese.need Google translate.ship overseas.



Nice looking cables! Although it would be nice to know if those ZS3/ZS5 cables use the *correct 0.75mm pins*, or the 0.78mm pins. The 0.78mm pins are more common on 3rd party cables, but are technically the wrong size and will stretch out the KZ jacks (making 0.75mm cables fit loose).

I have yet to find a 3rd party cable that uses 0.75mm pins, which is why I have only used the OEM KZ silver plated cables up to now.


----------



## acia

slaterlovesspam said:


> Nice looking cables! Although it would be nice to know if those ZS3/ZS5 cables use the *correct 0.75mm pins*, or the 0.78mm pins. The 0.78mm pins are more common on 3rd party cables, but are technically the wrong size and will stretch out the KZ jacks (making 0.75mm cables fit loose).
> 
> I have yet to find a 3rd party cable that uses 0.75mm pins, which is why I have only used the OEM KZ silver plated cables up to now.


.78  but as previous folks already stated.  the .75 he got is too loose.  .78 pin won't stretch the socket.  

one more important thing.  the factory silver/gold plated cable can be binned, once compared with the cable i got. 

same result for my audeze sine/isine.  not just kz zs5.

that's why i ordered so many cables!  made cables for almost all cans that i got.


----------



## acia (Jul 6, 2017)

actual cables.


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## Slater (Jul 6, 2017)

acia said:


> .78  but as previous folks already stated.  the .75 he got is too loose.  .78 pin won't stretch the socket.
> 
> one more important thing.  the factory silver/gold plated cable can be binned, once compared with the cable i got.
> 
> ...



I was under the impression that the folks who said the 0.75mm were loose had PREVIOUSLY installed a 0.78mm cable 1st, THEN went back and tried a 0.75mm cable (which now felt loose, because the jack became stretched out by the 0.78mm cable). If that's the case, then 0.78mm cables would be OK as long as you always stuck with 0.78mm cables from then on. But not OK if you ever want to go back to 0.75mm (such as the factory KZ bluetooth cable).

Can anyone else comment on this? Is the rule of thumb: "Once 0.78mm, always 0.78mm"?


----------



## acia

slaterlovesspam said:


> I was under the impression that the folks who said the 0.75mm were loose had PREVIOUSLY installed a 0.78mm cable 1st, THEN went back and tried a 0.75mm cable (which now felt loose, because the jack became stretched out by the 0.78mm cable). If that's the case, then 0.78mm cables would be OK as long as you always stuck with 0.78mm cables from then on. But not OK if you ever want to go back to 0.75mm (such as the factory KZ bluetooth cable).
> 
> Can anyone else comment on this? Is the rule of thumb: "Once 0.78mm, always 0.78mm"?



can still use the junk factory cables for me.  i have 3 sets of zs5.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 6, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I couldn't agree more, especially since I already suffer from mild hearing loss and tinitus. I'm very protective of my hearing (much moreso now than in my younger days when I was stupid).
> 
> I'm more trying to understand the amping requirements of the ZS5, and wrap my head around the reports of ZS5 distortion. I don't own a single IEM that has distortion like some are reporting. Is because their source is not optimally impedance matched? Is it because the people reporting it are simply trying to drive it too loudly? Or still, does the inclusion of the additional (4 total) drivers cause the overall distortion to be significantly lower?
> 
> Some headphones really open up and are a different animal with amping, while others make no difference whatsoever. There's plenty of times when I don't feel like carrying around the extra bulk of my amp.


My ZS5 seems to be less efficient than my ZST on my Samsung S7 Edge howeveer my iPhone and iPad drives the ZS5 efficiently without needing external amp. Both ZS5 and ZST distorts when I drive them over it's limits from my iDevices or my NFB11.32 and Chord Mojo DAC/Amp but of course that's not the usual volume I normally listen to my music. I suspect that the distortion tolerance of both the ZS5 and ZST is caused by the type of BA drivers that KZ used for both IEMs. Generally dynamic drivers have better distortion tolerance than BA drivers. Having said that, my Dynamic Motion DM200H hybrid IEM's BA driver has far better distortion tolerance than both the ZS5 and ZST put together but then the DM200H is going at $342 at Amazon so it's not a fair comparison. In all fairness, the performance of both ZS5 and ZST far exceeds it's asking price...we certainly can't expect perfection at this price point. Nothing is perfect...whatever the price of the IEM. By the end of the day, we're the one that decide if we can live with all the goodness and the little flaws of any IEM.


----------



## groucho69

acia said:


> actual cables.



Link for the mini XLR?


----------



## Envinite

SpiderNhan said:


> You can try pairing your Right Carbon ZST with the Left Colorful ZST. I think that would look pretty nice.



Can't, already gave my ZST Carbon to my dad. Besides, the ZST carbon & candy have a rather different sound.


----------



## trumpethead

slaterlovesspam said:


> So basically am I understanding this correct in that the distortion people are reporting is because the ZS5 needs to be amped for best performance? And once amped, the ZS5 can be cranked with no distortion?



I can only speak for my ZS5......
Unamped they sounded a bit mediocre and I was a bit underwhelmed. Upon amping with my little Fiio E6  they came alive. The bass came out to play and suddenly they were open  with a large soundstage. Vocals were present but not too forward...nice instrument separation. I have not cranked them unamped but amped they are strong with no breakup at any humanly sane volume. Unamped I could never get then to a volume loud enough for distortion...Of course that is my experience others may have different issues that could be affecting theirs.


----------



## Slater

Envinite said:


> Besides, the ZST carbon & candy have a rather different sound.



Now see, I asked this exact question a while ago, and the response was that they have the same sound (only difference being the shell colors).


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Now see, I asked this exact question a while ago, and the response was that they have the same sound (only difference being the shell colors).



I'm sure it was asked more than once and until now the answer has been the only difference is the color.


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> I'm sure it was asked more than once and until now the answer has been the only difference is the color.



So how do we determine the truth?

Well, obviously the best way is to just order a carbon pair myself and compare. That's what I ended up doing with the Rock Zircon, to prove if there really was a sound difference between the black and white colors (and low and behold there was; just like a few people were reporting). I just don't really need/want another pair of ZST! Unless of course the carbon version sound better than the colorful version...


----------



## acia

groucho69 said:


> Link for the mini XLR?


http://c.b1yt.com/h.PAmMha?cv=L41VZA8H1ip&sm=a3e145 ，或复制这条信息￥L41VZA8H1ip￥后打开手机淘宝
4 X kz zs5 or audeze isine cable. 1 x audeze sine 1 x audeze LCD 1 x akg k712 All of excellent workmanship and highest craftsmanship available. The foil shielding could be bit hard. Much more details in instruments. And give better kick for bass. For the sine factory default cable, it definitely belongs to the bin. Offer much better before and after sales service than audeze. Nice chap, extremely responsible and reliable. only speaks chinese.need Google translate.ship overseas


----------



## snip3r77

trumpethead said:


> I can only speak for my ZS5......
> Unamped they sounded a bit mediocre and I was a bit underwhelmed. Upon amping with my little Fiio E6  they came alive. The bass came out to play and suddenly they were open  with a large soundstage. Vocals were present but not too forward...nice instrument separation. I have not cranked them unamped but amped they are strong with no breakup at any humanly sane volume. Unamped I could never get then to a volume loud enough for distortion...Of course that is my experience others may have different issues that could be affecting theirs.



Pls slap it with a JVC Spiral Tips. The bass will be enhanced


----------



## Vidal (Jul 7, 2017)

Envinite said:


> Besides, the ZST carbon & candy have a rather different sound.



Absolute rubbish, they are identical sound-wise. I've tested this on at least 3 occasions.


----------



## VinceHill24

New cable for ZST by KZ. Should be available soon i guess. Not sure yet whether will it be available for ZS3/5 but atm they said just ZST available.


----------



## HiFiChris

VinceHill24 said:


> New cable for ZST by KZ. Should be available soon i guess. Not sure yet whether will it be available for ZS3/5 but atm they said just ZST available.



It looks gorgeous. Any estimated price?

I don't have the ZST, but shouldn't it automatically fit the ZS3 and ZS5? I thought they were using the same plugs and sockets.


----------



## groucho69

Vidal said:


> Absolute rubbish, they are identical sound-wise. I've tested this on at least 3 occasions.



I knew I'd seen this more than once. I'll always believe @Vidal first.


----------



## groucho69

VinceHill24 said:


> New cable for ZST by KZ. Should be available soon i guess. Not sure yet whether will it be available for ZS3/5 but atm they said just ZST available.



Oh nice....


----------



## VinceHill24

HiFiChris said:


> It looks gorgeous. Any estimated price?
> 
> I don't have the ZST, but shouldn't it automatically fit the ZS3 and ZS5? I thought they were using the same plugs and sockets.


The estimated price they told me was 65RMB and that translates to about 10$ approximately.

The ZST connection and ZS3/5 connection are different all these while, not that the connector is different since both also uses 0.75mm 2-pin connection, it's just the housing of the connector that is different and thus making the fit betwee  them impossible. I really hope they come out with this cable for the ZS3/5 too coz i no longer have my ZST for now


----------



## loomisjohnson

slaterlovesspam said:


> Soundstage is really really close between the 2. I'd say they are basically identical (soundstage) to one another.
> 
> I love both the HDS3 and ED9. The ED9 has the edge because of the tuning filters, but it's heavy to wear (yet basically indestructible). The HDS3 disappears in your ear - it's so small and lightweight.
> 
> You really can't go wrong with either. But if you had to pick 1, I would personally go with the ED9.


+1. nice to see the hds3, which has long been an afterthought, getting some attention. it can't rival the ed9/zst/zs5 for refinement, but it's a lot of fun--even as i've accumulated a bunch of $>100 iems i still pull the hds3 out to listen


----------



## VinceHill24

Just when i thought it's over, KZ uploaded another new product onto their China Alibaba page which i believe is gonna excite a lot of us. MMCX silver plated cable. Are they hinting us on upcoming model ?? I really hope so...


----------



## Francisk

VinceHill24 said:


> New cable for ZST by KZ. Should be available soon i guess. Not sure yet whether will it be available for ZS3/5 but atm they said just ZST available.


VinceHill24, can you share the link to the new ZST cable. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> I knew I'd seen this more than once. I'll always believe @Vidal first.



Same here.


----------



## Slater (Jul 7, 2017)

VinceHill24 said:


> Just when i thought it's over, KZ uploaded another new product onto their China Alibaba page which i believe is gonna excite a lot of us. MMCX silver plated cable. Are they hinting us on upcoming model ?? I really hope so...



I'm on this and the ZST cable like white on rice. And for $10?!? Could KZ spoil us any more?

If another company buys KZ, the party will be over for sure. Hopefully that day never comes.


----------



## bjaardker

VinceHill24 said:


> New cable for ZST by KZ. Should be available soon i guess. Not sure yet whether will it be available for ZS3/5 but atm they said just ZST available.



That makes it look like the ZST is switching to a MMCX connector. I don't know why else you would want/need a round 2 pin connector with grip texturing on them like that.


----------



## Saoshyant

bjaardker said:


> That makes it look like the ZST is switching to a MMCX connector. I don't know why else you would want/need a round 2 pin connector with grip texturing on them like that.



I'd love it if KZ went to MMCX for all their upcoming IEMs, unless they did what VSonic did and used a proprietary MMCX who's cable cost about as much as it would to rebuy the IEM.


----------



## khighly

Having distortion problems with the ZS5's. 

Not sure if it's because I don't have any real power right now except for my Pixel since I blew a voltage regulator on my tube amp and can't get good heat dissipation anymore. I also don't know if the ZS5's are just so accurate that they show the distortion in 2017 pop/edm mastering.


----------



## Podster

HiFiChris said:


> It looks gorgeous. Any estimated price?
> 
> I don't have the ZST, but shouldn't it automatically fit the ZS3 and ZS5? I thought they were using the same plugs and sockets.



No Chris, they are proprietary to the model as I have both ZST and ZS3's. It just so happens my Ali Ex seller sent me an extra ZS3 silver way back when so I ordered the mic'd version of the ZS5. Wish the dang things would get here after seeing all these positive impressions of them, matter a fact I have a set of those gold wires coming for my Colorfuls


----------



## Duncan

khighly said:


> Having distortion problems with the ZS5's.
> 
> Not sure if it's because I don't have any real power right now except for my Pixel since I blew a voltage regulator on my tube amp and can't get good heat dissipation anymore. I also don't know if the ZS5's are just so accurate that they show the distortion in 2017 pop/edm mastering.


Definitely not so accurate, as turning down the volume makes the very apparent distortion disappear...

My guilty pleasure is the ZSTs, so much so that tomorrow I'll have both the carbon and the candy myself...

I'll speculate now that some people will hear a difference between carbon and candy, but only in the same way as they might between two carbons or two candies, that at this price point, for what is enclosed in the package, there may well be a fair amount of sample variation...

Watch this space.


----------



## Podster

Duncan said:


> Definitely not so accurate, as turning down the volume makes the very apparent distortion disappear...
> 
> My guilty pleasure is the ZSTs, so much so that tomorrow I'll have both the carbon and the candy myself...
> 
> ...



If memory serves me right when the Colorfuls first started coming in some felt they had better highs but I myself have found them to sound pretty much the same regardless of cable as well


----------



## VinceHill24

Francisk said:


> VinceHill24, can you share the link to the new ZST cable. Thanks in advance.


No idea which stores have started selling it yet but if you're able to access their China Alibaba website or has any know how of purchasing there, here's the link

长按复制，打开手机阿里新版或支付宝查看【KZ耳机镀银线材升级线材0.75mm标准】UkVbAV68Bcav https://qr.1688.com/share.html?secret=eLLl0orv

I believe other AE sellers will have them sooner or later.


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like those new KZ cables are now on ali express but the KZ ZST upgrade is still the 2 pin and the MMCX version is just a upgrade cable for MMCX earphones and not a new KZ iem. A certain "banned" seller on ali express is selling them.....


----------



## nocchi

zst mmcx? no problem


----------



## CoiL

nocchi said:


> zst mmcx? no problem



I will do the same with my ZS5 (and probably ZSTtoo) because I also have MPS cable from HCK which is very good quality cable and I do not want to get all those "special" socket KZ cables - prefer to have 1 good for all.


----------



## Francisk

VinceHill24 said:


> No idea which stores have started selling it yet but if you're able to access their China Alibaba website or has any know how of purchasing there, here's the link
> 
> 长按复制，打开手机阿里新版或支付宝查看【KZ耳机镀银线材升级线材0.75mm标准】UkVbAV68Bcav https://qr.1688.com/share.html?secret=eLLl0orv
> 
> I believe other AE sellers will have them sooner or later.


I'll wait for the release of this cable


----------



## HiFiChris

nocchi said:


> zst mmcx? no problem




What's that red IEM? Another colour option for the ZS5 or yet another new Knowledge Zenith model?


----------



## Francisk

nocchi said:


> zst mmcx? no problem


Interesting mix of the Carbon ZST with the ZST Color Edition


----------



## Audiotistic

HiFiChris said:


> What's that red IEM? Another colour option for the ZS5 or yet another new Knowledge Zenith model?



Looks like the ZS5 to me


----------



## -rowan-

So my ZS5 arrived today and, out of the box, it sounds bloody marvellous for its price. More on that later. There's just one problem though. As you can see, the mesh on one side is loose. It's cut a little too big to fit into the nozzle, but too small to be trimmed without mangling the thing further. 

 

Tempted to rip it off and do without. But would it affect the sound significantly? And in what way? Anyone tried this - as part of a mod or otherwise?


----------



## mochill

Take it off


----------



## snip3r77

mochill said:


> Take it off


Take both off


----------



## Skullophile

Yes, take it off. that mesh wouldn't do anything significant with the sound. imho.


----------



## Duncan

Hmm...

The colour version of the ZST turned up, and it does seem to be a little different to the carbon flavour, not quite so in your face in the bass department, sample variation I'll put it down to, however it should be noted that the boxes the two came in are different, the colour in the same style as the ZS5 (model number printed onto the clear plastic top, versus a cardboard insert on the carbon)...

If it is sample variation, or even if it is expectation bias after reading this thread, I could genuinely live with the candies as my daily driver, despite the plethora of other gear I have.

Scary!


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> I will do the same with my ZS5 (and probably ZSTtoo) because I also have MPS cable from HCK which is very good quality cable and I do not want to get all those "special" socket KZ cables - prefer to have 1 good for all.



Where's the best place to get reliable female MMCX? I know many of the Chinese ones are hit and miss (too narrow of a depth, loose fitting, etc).


----------



## Slater (Jul 8, 2017)

-rowan- said:


> So my ZS5 arrived today and, out of the box, it sounds bloody marvellous for its price. More on that later. There's just one problem though. As you can see, the mesh on one side is loose. It's cut a little too big to fit into the nozzle, but too small to be trimmed without mangling the thing further.
> 
> 
> 
> Tempted to rip it off and do without. But would it affect the sound significantly? And in what way? Anyone tried this - as part of a mod or otherwise?



Don't do without. It will eventually build up earwax and dust/lint. It's not worth saving a few pennies.

It's very easy to replace that screen. Just pull it off with tweezers for now, order some mesh screens and replace when they arrive. They cost a few pennies each, and just peel and stick to install. Just need to determine the proper size - 4mm, 4.3mm, 4.7mm, 5mm.

Then place order here (get an assortment of a pair of each size if you aren't sure): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...sh-3-8mm-4mm-4-2mm-4-7mm-5mm/32800734441.html

They also go on sale for under $1 on a regular basis, and I grab a pack of each size. I've used them a number of times - for replacing screens that get damaged or fall out, and to tweak/tune the sound of an IEM (usually the red KZ filters which veil the sound).


----------



## -rowan-

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't do without. It will eventually build up earwax and dust/lint. It's not worth saving a few pennies.
> 
> It's very easy to replace that screen. Just pull it off with tweezers for now, order some mesh screens and replace when they arrive. They cost a few pennies each, and just peel and stick to install. Just need to determine the proper size - 4mm, 4.3mm, 4.7mm, 5mm.
> 
> ...



Thanks! This is very useful - will order a few. 

How does the presence of the mesh alter the sound of an IEM, do you know?


----------



## Slater

-rowan- said:


> Thanks! This is very useful - will order a few.
> 
> How does the presence of the mesh alter the sound of an IEM, do you know?



The stainless screens make no perceivable difference, which is why they are just as good as not having anything as far as impact on sound (but are recommended to protect the drivers from unwanted crud). The nylon filters DO have an impact on sound though (such as the red filters KZ uses on a lot of their IEMs).


----------



## Skullophile

So I took them out and about yesterday and isolation was very good. However isolation is very good with these iems anyway.
I have no way to test if it's better or not yet. Maybe I'll have to take extreme measures like listen in front of my speaker set up with the mod done on one side and see if 
it's louder on one side. Someone please chime in if there's a better material I should be using, this is some dampening material I had from an old Fostex planar modding kit.


----------



## Slater

Skullophile said:


> So I took them out and about yesterday and isolation was very good. However isolation is very good with these iems anyway.
> I have no way to test if it's better or not yet. Maybe I'll have to take extreme measures like listen in front of my speaker set up with the mod done on one side and see if
> it's louder on one side. Someone please chime in if there's a better material I should be using, this is some dampening material I had from an old Fostex planar modding kit.



Dynamat perhaps?


----------



## CoiL (Jul 8, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't do without. It will eventually build up earwax and dust/lint. It's not worth saving a few pennies.



Well, while I don`t want to recommend it to everyone, I use most of my IEMs (and mods) without any grills or foams in front of nozzle - it affects sound in many cases (in bad way mostly) and
I haven`t had any problems with earwax/dust/lint. But I also keep my ears clean and listen only with longer sessions not while just doing something or moving around and I also keep my IEMs in cases and clean.


----------



## groucho69

mochill said:


> Take it off



Oh yes!!!


----------



## doggiemom

CoiL said:


> But I also keep my ears clean


For some reason this cracked me up.    It is true though that a lot of people go through life with funky ears........ ugh, I clean mine every morning after I shower.


----------



## Audiotistic

mochill said:


> Take it off


----------



## NeonHD

sas69 said:


> Hello guys, 3 days ago I bought a pair of KZ ED9 IEMs after reading the first 100 pages of this thread.
> I'll probably have to wait for a month for them to arrive from China.
> Originally I was looking to buy Shure se215 IEMs but after all of the reviews that I have read I decided to test this ED9s.
> 
> ...



I know this is like 2 years old, but just want to say that both the ED9 and the MH1C possess a very identical sound signature, meaning that both have that similar silky, airy, and relaxed presence. Both have strong sub-bass (you'll have to put some foam into the filters to hear the ED9s true bass quantity), and both have that wide upper range extension that gives definition and sparkly detail into the highs. So far from owning the ED9s for a day, imo the KZ ED9s are like the Sony MH1C's big brother, meaning that it has the exact same sound signature but with a better soundstage and more definition and detail.


----------



## Francisk

NeonHD said:


> I know this is like 2 years old, but just want to say that both the ED9 and the MH1C possess a very identical sound signature, meaning that both have that similar silky, airy, and relaxed presence. Both have strong sub-bass (you'll have to put some foam into the filters to hear the ED9s true bass quantity), and both have that wide upper range extension that gives definition and sparkly detail into the highs. So far from owning the ED9s for a day, imo the KZ ED9s are like the Sony MH1C's big brother, meaning that it has the exact same sound signature but with a better soundstage and more definition and detail.


NeonHD, have you tried the KZ ZST or KZ ZS5 yet? I think you're going to like them very much


----------



## NeonHD

Francisk said:


> NeonHD, have you tried the KZ ZST or KZ ZS5 yet? I think you're going to like them very much


 Haven't really put much thought into getting them cause I already own so many good IEMs, but might consider it as an over-ear sports earphone for when I go to the gym (I actually already have my eyes on the QKZ W1 Pro for that purpose).


----------



## Slater

Audiotistic said:


>



haha, hilarious!


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Haven't really put much thought into getting them cause I already own so many good IEMs, but might consider it as an over-ear sports earphone for when I go to the gym (I actually already have my eyes on the QKZ W1 Pro for that purpose).



W1 Pro is a great gym IEM. You can beat it to heck and it keeps on ticking. Plus it's totally sealed so it's sweatproof. It's comfy, and the cable connection is rock solid.

It's not the best sounding IEM KZ/QKZ makes, but it's plenty decent enough for swolling at the gym.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> ...Both have strong sub-bass (you'll have to put some foam into the filters to hear the ED9s true bass quantity), and both have that wide upper range extension that gives definition and sparkly detail into the highs...



The ED9's shiny gold filters already have a small piece of tuning foam in them. Are you talking about adding MORE foam to the gold filter, or adding foam to the dull brass filter?


----------



## NeonHD

slaterlovesspam said:


> W1 Pro is a great gym IEM. You can beat it to heck and it keeps on ticking. Plus it's totally sealed so it's sweatproof. It's comfy, and the cable connection is rock solid.
> 
> It's not the best sounding IEM KZ/QKZ makes, but it's plenty decent enough for swolling at the gym.



Yeah I've heard good things about those, and for gym I mostly value durability/comfortability over SQ so gonna go with the W1 Pros. The ZS5s do look really promising though.


----------



## NeonHD

slaterlovesspam said:


> The ED9's shiny gold filters already have a small piece of tuning foam in them.



I think I saw the foam at first but thought it was just the metal mesh, and yeah I meant putting more foam into the gold filters to make it bassier (I'm a basshead guy).


----------



## Slater (Jul 9, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> Yeah I've heard good things about those, and for gym I mostly value durability/comfortability over SQ so gonna go with the W1 Pros. The ZS5s do look really promising though.



I will also mention that if you don't want an over-ear style, the KZ EDR1 is wicked good and can be had for ~$4. It's built like a tank and is comfortable as well. It's got a nice warm sound signature, and is a steal for the price. Superficially, it looks like the KZ EDSE, but the EDR1 definitely sounds better. If you like neutral, the HDS3 is good as well (very small, lightweight, and super comfy).

I personally prefer over-ear for the gym though. You could jump off Niagara Falls with the W1 Pro and it wouldn't budge an inch!


----------



## Slater (Jul 9, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> I think I saw the foam at first but thought it was just the metal mesh, and yeah I meant putting more foam into the gold filters to make it bassier (I'm a basshead guy).



If you're a basshead (like me), there are other KZs that beat out the ED9. The ED9 is definitely no slouch in the bass dept though. It's an all-around decent package, and can be easily modded to sound even better.


----------



## NeonHD

slaterlovesspam said:


> I will also mention that if you don't want an over-ear style, the KZ EDR1 is wicked good and can be had for ~$4. It's built like a tank and is comfortable as well. It's got a nice warm sound signature, and is a steal for the price. Superficially, it looks like the KZ EDSE, but the EDR1 definitely sounds better. If you like neutral, the HDS3 is good as well (very small, lightweight, and super comfy).
> 
> I personally prefer over-ear for the gym though. You could jump off Niagara Falls with the W1 Pro and it wouldn't budge an inch!



Have you tried the Remax RM-565i? Just bought one hearing that they're a better micro-driver than the KZ HDS3, yeah should just use my 565i for the gym (the Rock Zircons are my current gym workout IEMs).


----------



## Slater (Jul 9, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> Have you tried the Remax RM-565i? Just bought one hearing that they're a better micro-driver than the KZ HDS3, yeah should just use my 565i for the gym (the Rock Zircons are my current gym workout IEMs).



Better than the HDS3? Wow. I've been seeing some mention of 2 different Remax IEMs lately. Next time they are on sale, I'll pick them both up from Gearbest and see what the fuss is about.

Most micro drivers have been disappointing in one way or another. The HDS3 is one of the best micros I've heard, and it's build and comfort is great for the price. KZ says it's some fancy pants Japanese-imported driver.


----------



## NeonHD (Jul 9, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Better than the HDS3? Wow. I've been seeing some mention of 2 different Remax IEMs lately. Next time they are on sale, I'll pick them both up from Gearbest and see what the fuss is about.
> 
> Most micro drivers have been disappointing in one way or another. The HDS3 is one of the best micros I've heard, and it's build and comfort is great for the price. KZ says it's some fancy pants Japanese-imported driver.



I was gonna buy the HDS3 at first cause it was so cheap, but then after comparing the reviews between the HDS3 and 565i at http://www.thephonograph.net/ I realized that the 565i was better in terms of bass and treble, so I ended up with the Remax 565i.


----------



## mattmik (Jul 9, 2017)

This may have been asked, but is anyone else finding the ZS5 some of the worst KZ's yet.  I have the ZS3 and really like them for the money.  I have tried the ZS5 from my phone and my IFI BL and find them very strident with weak bass.  Am I missing something?  I just really expected more from these and am shocked that these are by far my least favorite KZ's yet.


----------



## bjaardker

From the past few posts, it looks like the ZS5 QC issues continue. I'm glad I got a decent pair.


----------



## NeonHD

mattmik said:


> This may have been asked, but is anyone else finding the ZS5 some of the worst KZ's yet.  I have the ZS3 and really like them for the money.  I have tried the ZS5 from my phone and my IFI BL and find them very strident with weak bass.  Am I missing something?  I just really expected more from these and am shocked that these are by far my least favorite KS's yet.



This is actually my reaction with the Plextone 41M IEM, which pretty much everyone praised it for its monstrous bass. I just got it yesterday and the sub-bass was definitely powerful and loud, but it lacked the bass extension which meant that the bass decayed very quickly and not slow; something I really valued as a basshead. Same story with the Rock Zircons. Well I think I know the story now for the ZS5.


----------



## Slater

mattmik said:


> This may have been asked, but is anyone else finding the ZS5 some of the worst KZ's yet.  I have the ZS3 and really like them for the money.  I have tried the ZS5 from my phone and my IFI BL and find them very strident with weak bass.  Am I missing something?  I just really expected more from these and am shocked that these are by far my least favorite KZ's yet.



If you accidentally wired them backwards (1 side anyways), they will be out of phase & will sound anemic. You can double check your wiring using the link in my signature.

Of course there have been a few reports of 1 or more drivers being wired out of phase INTERNALLY, which will also cause similar problems. But unfortunately there's zero you can do about that situation since they loaded the internals up with a pound of glue.

What tips are you using? And are you sure that you're getting a good seal?


----------



## mattmik

I just double checked and the plugs appear to be in the correct way.  The cables also match the way my ZS3 is wired.  I am starting to think maybe I just got a dud pair based on all of the positive reviews.


----------



## HiFiChris

mattmik said:


> I just double checked and the plugs appear to be in the correct way.  The cables also match the way my ZS3 is wired.  I am starting to think maybe I just got a dud pair based on all of the positive reviews.



Please check the polarity (phase) and whether the sides are correct with these tests:  and .


----------



## CoiL

mattmik said:


> This may have been asked, but is anyone else finding the ZS5 some of the worst KZ's yet.  I have the ZS3 and really like them for the money.  I have tried the ZS5 from my phone and my IFI BL and find them very strident with weak bass.  Am I missing something?  I just really expected more from these and am shocked that these are by far my least favorite KZ's yet.


Well... seems You are extreme basshead or You got a dud pair. ZS5 is most perfect KZ IEM sonically imho.



bjaardker said:


> From the past few posts, it looks like the ZS5 QC issues continue. I'm glad I got a decent pair.


Haven`t seen so many issues from users, only few so far imho. 

Anyway, I did all kind of tests and my pair seems to be perfect without any phase issues nor distortion. 

Perfect IEM for 22€ imho.


----------



## ScottPilgrim

>in ear headphones with detachable cables
>right earpiece connection is loose, falls out quite often
>get out yesterday night for a casual walk
>right earphone falls on street in front of house
>panic.jpg
>cant find it
>feel sad because nomusic.jpg and broke.png
>rains all night
>sadlife.bmp
>come home from university
>find iem in street
>plug them in
>perfectly fine, just a little dirty from dust
>cable connector actually got stronger

10/10, would zs5 again.


What are these build quality stuff you guys talkin' about? Mine's epic. Still enjoying em.


----------



## VinceHill24

Quite glad that as far as my journey with KZ, i wasn't bothered with much of serious QC issues besides a 1st batch ZST with malfunctioned BA driver and the rubbish ED12. The rest of the purchase are either satisfactory to excellent. 

Quite surprised how unlucky some of us here can be. Lol. Considering their massive production volume, i believe their QC issue is really not that bad. 

They're just 20+ and i highly doubt they have 100% profit margin. They're just like Xiaomi of smartphone so as a poor salaryman i really appreciate and respect KZ.



mattmik said:


> I just double checked and the plugs appear to be in the correct way.  The cables also match the way my ZS3 is wired.  I am starting to think maybe I just got a dud pair based on all of the positive reviews.



Try taping the front vent hole of the ZS5 if you're a basshead. If it doesn't help then likely the driver is faulty, or it could be the driver is being flexed. That happens once for my unit when i have the vent hole sealed and i thought it was driver malfunction till i removed the tape and got some pop sound and that's when the sound starts coming out.


----------



## Slater

ScottPilgrim said:


> >in ear headphones with detachable cables
> >right earpiece connection is loose, falls out quite often
> >get out yesterday night for a casual walk
> >right earphone falls on street in front of house
> ...



Great story lol!

Hey, the connections shouldn't be loose & "falling out quite often". 95% chance that the plugs aren't plugged in the right way. Use the link in my signature to check.


----------



## Envinite

Vidal said:


> Absolute rubbish, they are identical sound-wise. I've tested this on at least 3 occasions.



I disagree. Indeed both ZST carbon & candy *looks* like have similar drivers, but from my experience, ZST carbon mids hurts my ears and the sub bass is more pumpy. Some dude also notice the difference and put his detailed review here: http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zst-pro-colorful-review/ . Of course, this ignoring the 'less-bass problem' that I got from each side of both my ZST carbon & candy units.

Come to think about it, there *could* be possibility even an 'alright' unit have a slight problem. I've pry off the shell of my ZST carbon before and noticed a rather poor soldering on the wires that connecting the armature. It's like they don't even bother tinning the wires before and the glue gets into the soldered area. Also the BA on my candy is slightly tilted to the side. That could be a possibility why we don't share similar view on these two units.


----------



## Vidal

My opinion is based not on just two pairs and I've made comparisons a number of times. Last time I compared them was Christmas when I was back at my families I specifically sat down to check them.

There are about 5 pairs that I have access to (friends and family) 3 carbons and 2 candies. All sound within a degree of tolerance the same. My own candy and carbon are identical - any variation will be unintentional and down to inconsistent manufacturing rather than different tuning between the two variants IMO.


----------



## Saoshyant

@slaterlovesspam Well, your W1 Pro's wire connection might be rock solid.  Mine detaches if you turn your head, on the first one anyways.  Back when QKZ did the Superbowl version of the W1, which looks and sounds the same btw, I picked one up and that one's solid at far as connection, so maybe some QC issues.  Forgot however to swap cables and see if it's a cable or IEM issue.


----------



## Slater

Saoshyant said:


> @slaterlovesspam Well, your W1 Pro's wire connection might be rock solid.  Mine detaches if you turn your head, on the first one anyways.  Back when QKZ did the Superbowl version of the W1, which looks and sounds the same btw, I picked one up and that one's solid at far as connection, so maybe some QC issues.  Forgot however to swap cables and see if it's a cable or IEM issue.



Yeah, always a possibility of random QC issues with KZ/QKZ. It's not normally loosey goosey though.


----------



## khighly

ZST has much harsher highs and less mids than the ZS5. ZS5's easily distort. I hope this is fixed down the line. I'll probably buy another pair of ZS5's in 3 months.


----------



## Duncan

Harsh highs on the ZSTs?

I find them pleasantly dull compared to some other IEMs in my collection.

Goes to show how different people look out for different things


----------



## Francisk

khighly said:


> ZST has much harsher highs and less mids than the ZS5. ZS5's easily distort. I hope this is fixed down the line. I'll probably buy another pair of ZS5's in 3 months.


ZST less mids than ZS5??? I find that ZST have slightly more mids than ZS5.


----------



## Slater (Jul 9, 2017)

Duncan said:


> Harsh highs on the ZSTs?
> 
> I find them pleasantly dull compared to some other IEMs in my collection.
> 
> Goes to show how different people look out for different things



I can't speak for the mids (since I don't own the ZS5 to compare), but the highs on my ZSTs were like razor blades to my ears. But then again I'm sensitive to the highs on some IEMs (the ZST moreso than any others in my collection though). I simply fashioned a micro-sized filter out of acoustic foam & inserted it into the BA driver's nozzle. Highs became much more bearable after that, and the ZST is one of my favorite IEMs now.


----------



## Francisk

slaterlovesspam said:


> I can't speak for the mids (since I don't own the ZS5 to compare), but the highs on my ZSTs were like razor blades to my ears. But then again I'm sensitive to the highs on some IEMs (the ZST moreso than any others in my collection though). I simply fashioned a micro-sized filter out of acoustic foam & inserted it into the BA driver's nozzle. Highs became much more bearable after that, and the ZST is one of my favorite IEMs now.


Comply T400 foam tips did an excellent job in taming all the high frequency peaks on both ZST and ZS5. I'm normally not a huge fan of Comply tips but in this case, it does it's magic for both the ZST and ZS5.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Is it just me who bought the ZST for the highs lol

I wanted a brighter ss alternative to the zs3 so the zst was the obvious pick and it's been doing its job so far.


----------



## Slater (Jul 9, 2017)

as wellffff





Francisk said:


> Comply T400 foam tips did an excellent job in taming all the high frequency peaks on both ZST and ZS5. I'm normally not a huge fan of Comply tips but in this case, it does it's magic for both the ZST and ZS5.



I'll have to try that out on the ZST. I have a pile of Comply and knockoff foam tips. I just don't use them that often because they can't be cleaned like silicone and they have to replaced on a regular basis.

I have some DIY foam hybrids I made from foam earplugs I could also try (and I could always try Symbios as well). The foam hybrids are the best of both worlds.

I also made an experimental pair of 'poor mans Symbios', where I took generic memory foams and dipped them in Plastidip (that had its consistency thinned down so it didn't go on too thick). They actually worked pretty good, and the result was similar to the KZ gel silicone tips they include with the ATE. Nice Comply style foam, but with a thin and easy-to-clean rubberized coating. It's not as bio-compatible as true silicone, but I never experienced any ear irritation from them.


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> Is it just me who bought the ZST for the highs lol
> 
> I wanted a brighter ss alternative to the zs3 so the zst was the obvious pick and it's been doing its job so far.



Yeah, that's definitely why I bought the ZST too. And granted, it has much better highs than the foam-modded ZS3. But it turned out to be just a little *too* sharp for me in stock form on some tracks. Modded with the filter, it's perfect and is honestly the main reason why I haven't even bothered getting a ZS5. I'm totally happy with the ZST, and the reports of it being extremely similar to the ZST just hasn't enticed me enough (yes, I know it IS technically 'better' than the ZST in many aspects, but you get the point).

The 1More Triple was a little too sharp for me as well (although the Xiaomi HD Pro is OK, go figure).


----------



## lynx121 (Jul 9, 2017)

Can't seem to find any distortion on my ZS5. It does require a bit more power compared to other iems. My listening volume on my retired Ostry KC06A is around 30-35 while on ZS5 its around 40-45. I cranked it up to 60-70 and can't find any distortion. My source is LG V20(normal mode) and sound tests are songs from AvA, Daft Punk, and some JPop/JRock, all flacs.


----------



## Audiotistic

I don't have any distortion on my ZS5's either.  I'm using a dx80 as a usb dac plugged into my computer with Tidal.  I can crank it all the way up with no perceivable difference in sound quality, although it's way too loud to listen to at those volumes.

My ZST's definitely have more treble presence than my ZS5's, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it harsh.  There is a peak in the upper treble and can get a little fatiguing, but still pretty balanced to me (using the right tips can help tame it).  I really like the sound signature of the ZST's, maybe a little more so than the ZS5's but they are both great iem's for the money that I paid.


----------



## Vidal (Jul 10, 2017)

Both the ZST and the ZS5 are great earphones and their performance exceeds their price when compared to non Chinese brands.

In terms of the ZST, I think there are better earphones out there for the money, but the improvements over the ZSTs are not massive.

When it comes to the ZS5 I don't think there are better earphones out there for the money - out of the 143 (soon to be 144) earphones I've reviewed the ZS5 are better than them all. The ZS5 has soundstage and imaging unrivalled at this price only the Ty Hi Z G3 comes close for soundstage width. The ZS5 beats the G3s by virtue of having a more consumer friendly sound.

Anyone who is waiting for a better earphone than the ZS5s for a similar price could have a very long wait. Depending on your locale you could either say KZ hit a homerun or scored the goal of the season with the ZS5s.


----------



## acia

Audiotistic said:


> I don't have any distortion on my ZS5's either.  I'm using a dx80 as a usb dac plugged into my computer with Tidal.  I can crank it all the way up with no perceivable difference in sound quality, although it's way too loud to listen to at those volumes.
> 
> My ZST's definitely have more treble presence than my ZS5's, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it harsh.  There is a peak in the upper treble and can get a little fatiguing, but still pretty balanced to me (using the right tips can help tame it).  I really like the sound signature of the ZST's, maybe a little more so than the ZS5's but they are both great iem's for the money that I paid.


I have 3 pairs. All distort at Uber high volume. While zst 315 215 won't distort at same volume


----------



## Audiotistic

acia said:


> I have 3 pairs. All distort at Uber high volume. While zst 315 215 won't distort at same volume



Very interesting


----------



## Vidal

If @Audiotistic 's DX80 isn't distorting and someone's iPhone is, considering the iPhone is far less powerful the distortion could be caused by a source/earphone mismatch at high volumes rather than the ZS5 just being overpowered.


----------



## ricemanhk

Regarding the fit of the cables to ZST, with my pair the stock and silver cable both fit fine, but the KZ BT module I got the right side is fairly loose.  So if something is loose it's probably the wire housing that's a little too big, since it's the housing that's providing most of the friction rather than the pins.

With my old pair of ZS3, same thing, stock cable wire is loose on 1 side but silver cable both sides fine.


----------



## aisalen

Vidal said:


> Both the ZST and the ZS5 are great earphones and their performance exceeds their price when compared to non Chinese brands.
> 
> In terms of the ZST, I think there are better earphones out there for the money, but the improvements over the ZSTs are not massive.
> 
> ...



I received my KZ ZS5 today and I totally agree. Pairing it with my newly acquired mint condition Aune M2 Pro and I am in heaven listening with them. For the price, it is for the win and no regret purchasing both. In fact I am in regret purchasing LZ A4 as I can't have a proper seal due to fit issue. Best buy so far, just to mention that I have Opus #1. M2 Pro with ZS5 is a dead match for me. Will compare with my incoming Ibasso IT03 when it arrive.


----------



## CYoung234

Probably not the right forum, but does anyone have a recommendation for a DAC amp to use for the KZ ZS5? My phone is a Nexus 6p, and it may drive them fine, ad it does a decent job with my Fostex T50RPs, which are modified a lot. I was looking at the FIIO E18, as I can use the USB C OTG  on the phone to connect.


----------



## Mellowship

CYoung234 said:


> Probably not the right forum, but does anyone have a recommendation for a DAC amp to use for the KZ ZS5? My phone is a Nexus 6p, and it may drive them fine, ad it does a decent job with my Fostex T50RPs, which are modified a lot. I was looking at the FIIO E18, as I can use the USB C OTG  on the phone to connect.


On a budget, you have the topping nx2. Works fine for me with the USB C OTG.


----------



## Slater

acia said:


> I have 3 pairs. All distort at Uber high volume. While zst 315 215 won't distort at same volume



EVERY earphone/headphone distorts at a high enough volume (some more than others). The real question is "do you ever listen to headphone X at 'uber high volume"? If it's 3xs higher of a volume than you'd ever listen to, then it's really just an academic exercise. Sort of like saying my tires fall apart at 'uber high speeds' (let's say 150mph), when you normally only drive at a maximum 65-85mph.


----------



## Duncan

slaterlovesspam said:


> EVERY earphone/headphone distorts at a high enough volume (some more than others). The real question is "do you ever listen to headphone X at 'uber high volume"? If it's 3xs higher of a volume than you'd ever listen to, then it's really just an academic exercise. Sort of like saying my tires fall apart at 'uber high speeds' (let's say 150mph), when you normally only drive at a maximum 65-85mph.


I can get them to distort at what I would still classify as medium volume...  it doesn't appear to be source dependent...  although will try more sources...

Should be considered as an own goal if it ends up being that the most likely devices to drive them are those that cause distortion.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> EVERY earphone/headphone distorts at a high enough volume (some more than others). The real question is "do you ever listen to headphone X at 'uber high volume"? If it's 3xs higher of a volume than you'd ever listen to, then it's really just an academic exercise. Sort of like saying my tires fall apart at 'uber high speeds' (let's say 150mph), when you normally only drive at a maximum 65-85mph.



I have been wondering why this is an important point. If it happens at volumes that you will never listen at then so what? It seems a natural progression. If you overdrive any circuit it will react badly. Lesson? Don't do that!


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> I have been wondering why this is an important point. If it happens at volumes that you will never listen at then so what? It seems a natural progression. If you overdrive any circuit it will react badly. Lesson? Don't do that!



haha, sounds like my kind of Dr!


----------



## dysonapr

CYoung234 said:


> Probably not the right forum, but does anyone have a recommendation for a DAC amp to use for the KZ ZS5? My phone is a Nexus 6p, and it may drive them fine, ad it does a decent job with my Fostex T50RPs, which are modified a lot. I was looking at the FIIO E18, as I can use the USB C OTG  on the phone to connect.


For a portable DAC/amp, the Audioquest "Dragonfly" range usually get good reviews & are sensibly priced.


----------



## Viber

Soooooo.... any conclusive news on the ZS3 bluetooth cable yet??

New batch actually playing for 4 hours? anyone tested it?

Thanks!


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Soooooo.... any conclusive news on the ZS3 bluetooth cable yet??
> 
> New batch actually playing for 4 hours? anyone tested it?
> 
> Thanks!



Stay tuned - mine is due to arrive in the next few days.


----------



## -sandro-

Hi is the SQ of the zs3 better or worse than the Philips SHE3850? Also is the vshaped sound similar or more pronounced?


----------



## Slater (Jul 10, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> Hi is the SQ of the zs3 better or worse than the Philips SHE3850? Also is the vshaped sound similar or more pronounced?



I listened to a pair of 3850s a friend had a few years ago. From what I remember, they were really warm, had good bass extension, but were kind of weak on the highs. The resolution was so-so (which was fine for lower resolution recordings).

The ZS3 is very similar - in stock form, it's definitely v-shaped, a little weak on the highs, and not the highest resolution (again, perfectly fine for lower resolution recordings).

If you do the foam mod to the ZS3 though, the bass will be improved (less muddy) and it will have improved highs as well. So with that said, I would say a foam-modded ZS3 would edge out a 3850, but there are definitely better KZs available (especially the ZST and ZS5).

If you want to read more about the foam-modded ZS3 sound signature from an independent reviewer, check here: http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs3-slater-mod/

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Philips SHE3580 is old by today's standards, and even "low end" ChiFi IEMs have far surpassed the older stuff by leaps and bounds. My Shure E4c, which was no slouch at the time, sounds like garbage compared to a $5-$10 modern ChiFi IEM.

Do you want something with a more pronounced v-shape, or do you want neutral, or more detailed resolution, or what?


----------



## randomnin (Jul 10, 2017)

Right, IMHO Shure E4c is still ahead of every KZ I've heard (ATE S, ED9, ED4, ZS3). Maybe Urbanfun hybrids give a better overall experience, but still worse at details and separation. I mean, in what way can chi-fi, or any other fi for that matter, improve a technology that's been around as long as dynamic drivers?


----------



## Slater (Jul 11, 2017)

randomnin said:


> Right, IMHO Shure E4c is still ahead of every KZ I've heard (ATE S, ED9, ED4, ZS3). Maybe Urbanfun hybrids give a better overall experience, but still worse at details and separation. I mean, in what way can chi-fi, or any other fi for that matter, improve a technology that's been around as long as dynamic drivers?



5 years ago you had to spend a heck of a lot more than $10-$40 to get dynamic IEMs with multiple drivers, Beryllium diaphragm drivers, Graphene diaphragm drivers, silver plated cables, zirconium housings, removable MMCX cables (or any removable cable for that matter), crossovers, etc. You'd be really lucky if a titanium diaphragm driver was used in those days (at the price range of the E4c).

I exaggerated a little about the E4c to make my point. So to clarify my "garbage" comment - it definitely shows its age, and the majority of my ChiFi IEM collection certainly sounds better (overall). The E4c does have good detail - I'll give it that.

Also, the ED4 is the bottom of the barrel IMO. The fit, the sound, everything about it. Not much sounds worse, except possibly the earbuds that came included with Nokia cell phones LOL.


----------



## -sandro-

slaterlovesspam said:


> I listened to a pair of 3850s a friend had a few years ago. From what I remember, they were really warm, had good bass extension, but were kind of weak on the highs. The resolution was so-so (which was fine for lower resolution recordings).
> 
> The ZS3 is very similar - in stock form, it's definitely v-shaped, a little weak on the highs, and not the highest resolution (again, perfectly fine for lower resolution recordings).
> 
> ...



Hey thanks for the help!
I'm looking with something with more resolution (Philips doesn't have that you're right) but with a sweet+warm signature (like MH1C) or balanced, definitely not v shaped. So maybe I should try ATE and or ATR? Are they more valid for me?


----------



## Vidal

-sandro- said:


> Hey thanks for the help!
> I'm looking with something with more resolution (Philips doesn't have that you're right) but with a sweet+warm signature (like MH1C) or balanced, definitely not v shaped. So maybe I should try ATE and or ATR? Are they more valid for me?



ATR is a good option but broadening your search beyond KZ will give you more options. LZ Z03A available from Gearbest is a bargain at the moment.



randomnin said:


> Right, IMHO Shure E4c is still ahead of every KZ I've heard (ATE S, ED9, ED4, ZS3). Maybe Urbanfun hybrids give a better overall experience, but still worse at details and separation. I mean, in what way can chi-fi, or any other fi for that matter, improve a technology that's been around as long as dynamic drivers?



What a silly post! 

There are better KZ earphones than the one's you mentioned (although I rate the ED9 highly). There are better ChiFi earphones for detail and separation than the Urbanfun; try KZ ZS5, Ty Hi Z G3 or even the budget friendly Seahf AWK009, I'm sure others can suggest quite a few more candidates - Havi Pro, PMV, TFZ King etc. Dynamic drivers are improving all the time which will mean the Shure have been left behind a long time ago. Multi-driver earphones are also improving, they have to otherwise there would be no IEM industry as we'd still be buying earphones from 10 years ago.


----------



## CoiL (Jul 11, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> I'm looking with something with more resolution (Philips doesn't have that you're right) but with a sweet+warm signature (like MH1C) or balanced, definitely not v shaped. So maybe I should try ATE and or ATR? Are they more valid for me?





Vidal said:


> ATR is a good option but broadening your search beyond KZ will give you more options. LZ Z03A available from Gearbest is a bargain at the moment.



ATR has more detail and more energy in highs but frontal soundstage is closer to listener than ATE.
ATE is smooth but still detailed and has more distant, overall airier/larger soundstage than ATR.
Many think that ATR is upgrade to ATE but I think they are just different and for different tastes. Technically, in unmodified condition, ATR is better than ATE but
for my taste ATE is slightly better due to my long listening sessions and obsession for large airy soundstage and frontal depth/distance (I don`t want any sounds inside my headspace LOL).

LZ Z03A is kinda mixed bag for me. While it is technically better than ATR/ATE, it does have some midbass boost that may get irritating after longer listening and add pretty close frontal center soundstage (vocals)... not my taste. Gifted them away and wish I had bought some ATE/ATR`s for modding or now even 2x ZS5 (or ZST + ZS5) for that money.
Also getting right tips for LZ is not easy. I settled with Philips UE large bore ultra soft silicones whichreduced little midbass and made soundstage airier.

If You have little more money to add than for ATE/ATR, then I think ZS5 would fit You good.
ZS5 for me is almost like **** 4in1 but with less harsh highs and larger/airier soundstage.
Technically I think my ordering would be ZS5>4in1(JVC spiral dots S size+higher impedance cable)>ZST(Auvio large red bore S size tips)>ATR (KZ starline tips)>ATE(large bore tips).
Though, I maybe would swap places with ZST and 4in1 cuz ZST has better mids and soundstage for my taste and easier to tame highs peaks.


----------



## ashliejay

Viber said:


> Soooooo.... any conclusive news on the ZS3 bluetooth cable yet??
> 
> New batch actually playing for 4 hours? anyone tested it?
> 
> Thanks!


I've just bought one so expect something within 7-10 days, and i'm going to compare it against my modded TF10 bluetooth cable, to see the battery life and if the chipset is any better.


----------



## CoiL

CoiL said:


> ATR has more detail and more energy in highs but frontal soundstage is closer to listener than ATE.
> ATE is smooth but still detailed and has more distant, overall airier/larger soundstage than ATR.
> Many think that ATR is upgrade to ATE but I think they are just different and for different tastes. Technically, in unmodified condition, ATR is better than ATE but
> for my taste ATE is slightly better due to my long listening sessions and obsession for large airy soundstage and frontal depth/distance (I don`t want any sounds inside my headspace LOL).
> ...



OMG... I just realized I mixed up A2S and Z03A. 
I had A2S not Z03A but I think they are not so far off eachother due to LZ house sound of older models than A4.


----------



## randomnin

Vidal said:


> What a silly post!
> 
> There are better KZ earphones than the one's you mentioned (although I rate the ED9 highly). There are better ChiFi earphones for detail and separation than the Urbanfun; try KZ ZS5, Ty Hi Z G3 or even the budget friendly Seahf AWK009, I'm sure others can suggest quite a few more candidates - Havi Pro, PMV, TFZ King etc. Dynamic drivers are improving all the time which will mean the Shure have been left behind a long time ago. Multi-driver earphones are also improving, they have to otherwise there would be no IEM industry as we'd still be buying earphones from 10 years ago.



This is a KZ thread, so I mentioned only those for comparison. But I will probably get a ZST or ZS5 at some point. As for dynamic drivers - the only problem with the idea of being left behind by Chinese dynamics is the fact that nobody at a higher level even uses dynamic drivers. Everyone important uses BA or multiple BA.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

randomnin said:


> This is a KZ thread, so I mentioned only those for comparison. But I will probably get a ZST or ZS5 at some point. As for dynamic drivers - the only problem with the idea of being left behind by Chinese dynamics is the fact that nobody at a higher level even uses dynamic drivers. Everyone important uses BA or multiple BA.



That is very wrong...

Take a Look at Campfire Vega, Dita Dream, Hifiman RE2000


----------



## Shinry

Have you seen the new orange and grey ZS5 cables? Pricey, but nice looking.
Grey to grey ZS5? 
https://de.aliexpress.com/store/pro...2822699895.html?spm=a2g0x.12010611.0.0.v55rlh


----------



## blazinblazin (Jul 11, 2017)

randomnin said:


> This is a KZ thread, so I mentioned only those for comparison. But I will probably get a ZST or ZS5 at some point. As for dynamic drivers - the only problem with the idea of being left behind by Chinese dynamics is the fact that nobody at a higher level even uses dynamic drivers. Everyone important uses BA or multiple BA.


Checkout
JH Audio Lola
Campfire Audio Vega
Ocharaku


----------



## Saoshyant

blazinblazin said:


> Checkout JH Audio Lola





Oscar-HiFi said:


> That is very wrong...
> 
> Take a Look at Campfire Vega, Dita Dream, Hifiman RE2000



Not to mention Senn IE800, great IEM still.  Also would love to hear RE2K one day.


----------



## Vidal

CoiL said:


> OMG... I just realized I mixed up A2S and Z03A.
> I had A2S not Z03A but I think they are not so far off eachother due to LZ house sound of older models than A4.



Z03A has a bit more detail and even though it's least complex has the better sound of the two.


----------



## CoiL

Shinry said:


> Have you seen the new orange and grey ZS5 cables? Pricey, but nice looking.
> Grey to grey ZS5?
> https://de.aliexpress.com/store/pro...2822699895.html?spm=a2g0x.12010611.0.0.v55rlh



Grey one really looks nice. Might consider getting it instead turning ZS5 to MMCX but then again... cable price is almost same as IEM.


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> Hey thanks for the help!
> I'm looking with something with more resolution (Philips doesn't have that you're right) but with a sweet+warm signature (like MH1C) or balanced, definitely not v shaped. So maybe I should try ATE and or ATR? Are they more valid for me?



So far you've got a number of solid recommendations.

I'll throw a few recommendations into the ring as well:

Einsear T2
BossHiFi B3
KZ ZST
KZ ATR
KZ ED9


----------



## Slater

Shinry said:


> Have you seen the new orange and grey ZS5 cables? Pricey, but nice looking.
> Grey to grey ZS5?
> https://de.aliexpress.com/store/pro...2822699895.html?spm=a2g0x.12010611.0.0.v55rlh



Sexy!


----------



## aisalen

CoiL said:


> OMG... I just realized I mixed up A2S and Z03A.
> I had A2S not Z03A but I think they are not so far off eachother due to LZ house sound of older models than A4.


I have LZ A4 and whatever filter I used can't be able to appreciate it as I can't get a proper seal besides that it is power hungry. Using my opus #1, I am exceeding the red line in high gain. I like the sound coming from KZ ZS5. I have one IT03 coming to replace the A4 and bought the ZS5 just curiosity sake and didn't expect to surpass my expectation.


----------



## B9Scrambler

RE2000? It's a good single dynamic iem  ZS5 is good too.


----------



## Saoshyant

B9Scrambler said:


> RE2000? It's a good single dynamic iem  ZS5 is good too.



I really think I might have to find a way to convince myself to spend that much on an IEM.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 11, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> RE2000? It's a good single dynamic iem  ZS5 is good too.


At the asking price of the RE2000 I can buy me lots of ZS5 and ZST...enough to give away to many relatives and friends who are going to be happily enjoying the good sound from both the ZS5 and ZST....and still enough left to last all of us a whole life time


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

B9Scrambler said:


> RE2000? It's a good single dynamic iem  ZS5 is good too.



Exactly, I love the RE2K, it is a beautiful sounding IEM that I use a lot, but I put my ZS5's in the other day and enjoyed them quite a bit too


----------



## -sandro- (Jul 11, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> So far you've got a number of solid recommendations.
> 
> I'll throw a few recommendatios into the ring as well:
> 
> ...



The recommendatios all sound valid I don't know what to choose  are the kz atr/ate uncomfortable after a while and to sleep with?


----------



## HiFiChris

B9Scrambler said:


> RE2000? It's a good single dynamic iem  ZS5 is good too.



Do I spot 2 ZS5s in one photo?! And one even with the silver upgrade cable?! Baller!


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jul 11, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> Do I spot 2 ZS5s in one photo?! And one even with the silver upgrade cable?! Baller!



Big money, big money!! hahaha

Edit: I'm probably the only person here that prefers the stock cable. Upgrade cable feels a bit cheap. Plus, it developed a waviness above the y-split on the first day. Doesn't affect anything, but I can't straighten it out. Annoys the OCD part of me.


----------



## groucho69

Extra points for OCD


----------



## Slater (Jul 11, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> The recommendatios all sound valid I don't know what to choose  are the kz atr/ate uncomfortable after a while and to sleep with?



No, the AT-based IEMs (ATE, ATE-S, ATR) are extremely comfortable, and they rest pretty flat in your ear, so they are decent for sleeping in.

The ED9 wouldn't be appropriate for sleeping, as it sticks out quite a bit. And the ZST is pretty large and I wouldn't sleep in it.

If you are looking for something that you can also sleep in (along with your other requirements of neutral sound, decent resolution, warm signature) you may want to consider going to something with a really small body and a micro driver, like MEMT X5. Also. the Einsear T2 that was in my list is great for sleeping. You really can't go wrong with either of those (especially the T2).


----------



## -sandro-

slaterlovesspam said:


> No, the AT-based IEMs (ATE, ATE-S, ATR) are extremely comfortable, and they rest pretty flat in your ear, so they are decent for sleeping in.
> 
> The ED9 wouldn't be appropriate for sleeping, as it sticks out quite a bit. And the ZST is pretty large and I wouldn't sleep in it.
> 
> If you are looking for something that you can also sleep in (along with your other requirements of neutral sound, decent resolution, warm signature) you may want to consider going to something with a really small body and a micro driver, like MEMT X5. Also. the Einsear T2 that was in my list is great for sleeping. You really can't go wrong with either of those (especially the T2).



How is the T2 in sound signature? Also is it on par with the ATs for details?


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> How is the T2 in sound signature? Also is it on par with the ATs for details?



They are fairly neutral/balanced, and I think details are better than the ATs. You'll be hard-pressed to find better for the asking price. They tick all of your boxes, including using them in bed.

Here's 2 more opinions on them - Vidal and Loomis (both members on HF): http://www.aproear.co.uk/einsear-t2/


----------



## -sandro-

Thanks, where do you get them? Gearbest?


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> Thanks, where do you get them? Gearbest?



I got mine from Aliexpress.


----------



## ezekiel77

B9Scrambler said:


> RE2000? It's a good single dynamic iem  ZS5 is good too.


Spot the odd one out


----------



## Duncan

I'm obviously one of the bad ones around here, I like music loud, the ZST delivers on that well (especially the candy), the ZST, definitely more balanced / linear sounding, but just doesn't do the volume as well (due to less efficiency, and that distortion up loud)...

Blame the JHA Layla / RE2000 / RHA CL1 for that...

Funnily, as mentioned a few posts above, for the peanuts prices, the ChiFi IEMs hold up really well compared to those named above.


----------



## -sandro-

slaterlovesspam said:


> They are fairly neutral/balanced, and I think details are better than the ATs. You'll be hard-pressed to find better for the asking price. They tick all of your boxes, including using them in bed.
> 
> Here's 2 more opinions on them - Vidal and Loomis (both members on HF): http://www.aproear.co.uk/einsear-t2/



Hi
I'm scared that they far too neutral they lose musicality? are they flat or a bit fun to use?
Which of those instead is more leaning to sweet/warm?


----------



## Vidal

-sandro- said:


> Hi
> I'm scared that they far too neutral they lose musicality? Which of those instead is more leaning to sweet/warm?



T2 isn't neutral, it's got good bass and treble. The B3 is 'more neutral' than T2  but its still a very entertaining listen.


----------



## groucho69

FINALLY. My ZS5 arrived. Put then in and wondered what all the complaints about comfort were about? After 20 minutes I surrendered. I foresee an upcoming fix.

Only had them an hour but I love the sound stage. Black Keys, 10cc, Pink Floyd, Bowie, Buena Vista Social Club, Bob Marley, Weezer, Dire Straits, Steely Dan...all sound fantastic.


----------



## Podster

groucho69 said:


> FINALLY. My ZS5 arrived. Put then in and wondered what all the complaints about comfort were about? After 20 minutes I surrendered. I foresee an upcoming fix.
> 
> Only had them an hour but I love the sound stage. Black Keys, 10cc, Pink Floyd, Bowie, Buena Vista Social Club, Bob Marley, Weezer, Dire Straits, Steely Dan...all sound fantastic.



Excellent musical choices there Groucho Mine have shipped but usually by Junk boat On the other hand a very strong chance I'll see them before my Icarus III


----------



## groucho69 (Jul 12, 2017)

I am rather eclectic in musical taste. I also have the entire catalog of Herbert von Karajan in flac, as well as Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Coltrane, Dizzy, and Miles.....

I was thinking about launching a dispute. I was whining about it in another thread, went to the mailbox and there was a card to pick it up at the Post Office.

When you get yours @Podster , step 1: rip out that damn wire.


----------



## Podster

groucho69 said:


> I am rather eclectic in musical taste. I also have the entire catalog of Herbert Van Karian in flac, as well as Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Coltrane, Dizzy, and Miles.....
> 
> I was thinking about launching a dispute. I was whining about it in another thread, went to the mailbox and there was a card to pick it up at the Post Office.
> 
> When you get yours @Podster , step 1: rip out that damn wire.



Right there with you on the Blues and Jazz as well, I'd say I'm very eclectic in my taste as well. I like a wide spectrum of stuff, long as it's performed well I can get into a lot of jams Wonky wire removal duly noted, as an old telephone lineman I'm very adept at removing sheath


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Right there with you on the Blues and Jazz as well, I'd say I'm very eclectic in my taste as well. I like a wide spectrum of stuff, long as it's performed well I can get into a lot of jams Wonky wire removal duly noted, as an old telephone lineman I'm very adept at removing sheath



Only tool I used was me...my finger nail that is.


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Right there with you on the Blues and Jazz as well, I'd say I'm very eclectic in my taste as well. I like a wide spectrum of stuff, long as it's performed well I can get into a lot of jams Wonky wire removal duly noted, as an old telephone lineman I'm very adept at removing sheath



Just listening to Genesis,  Carpet Crawlers. OMG!!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

I don't get the wire hate with the ZS5. Just shape it like this and it not only stays out of the way, but helps keep them very secure. At least the memory wire KZ went with holds the shape you set it to, unlike the crap wire used on most earphones. That stuff is unbearable.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> as an old telephone lineman I'm very adept at removing sheath



Real men use butt sets LOL


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> I don't get the wire hate with the ZS5. Just shape it like this and it not only stays out of the way, but helps keep them very secure. At least the memory wire KZ went with holds the shape you set it to, unlike the crap wire used on most earphones. That stuff is unbearable.



But I'm a delicate flower...


----------



## B9Scrambler

I don't get it, but it's amusing.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Real men use butt sets LOL



Butt wha....oh never mind. Does knowing this make us old????


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> I don't get it, but it's amusing.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 12, 2017)

Duncan said:


> I'm obviously one of the bad ones around here, I like music loud, the ZST delivers on that well (especially the candy), the ZST, definitely more balanced / linear sounding, but just doesn't do the volume as well (due to less efficiency, and that distortion up loud)...
> 
> Blame the JHA Layla / RE2000 / RHA CL1 for that...
> 
> Funnily, as mentioned a few posts above, for the peanuts prices, the ChiFi IEMs hold up really well compared to those named above.


It's really interesting how ChiFi IEMs have progressed through the years...pushing the sound quality bar for low budget IEMs. KZ ZST, ZS5 and the likes have proved it. Now there's no excuse for bad sound quality


----------



## B9Scrambler

ZS5 review is up!

 

REVIEW HERE​


----------



## Slater (Jul 12, 2017)

groucho69 said:


> Butt wha....oh never mind. Does knowing this make us old????



Yeah, it's an old-timey phone reference.

Butt set is just a tool of the trade. I'm not a lineman like Podster, but I've administered numerous PBXs over the years, and a few of the tools are the same (66/110/etc punchdown blocks, cross connects, tone tools, butt set, etc.). My work is all indoors in wiring closets and phone/server rooms though - no pole climbing. Of course the fancy pants VoIP phone systems don't use this stuff - just old school stuff.

Here's a pic of a butt set - you've probably seen one dangling from a lineman's tool belt when they're on a pole listening into your phone calls, er I mean *troubleshooting* your phone LOL:


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> ZS5 review is up!
> 
> 
> 
> REVIEW HERE​


Reading Your review... I still get an itch to try out ZS3.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I think the ZS3 is a must-try for the KZ lineup.  Been following KZ for awhile now and it almost always comes up with positive feedback.


----------



## chi-fi mel

CoiL said:


> Reading Your review... I still get an itch to try out ZS3.


Nothing wrong with the ZS3, but it's not great. The MEMT X5 or iLuv 314 sound awesome in that price range.


----------



## bokiboki

Do I need KZ ZS5 if I have Urbanfun and the sound is ok, but the fitting is not very good, in which part will the sound be better and will I have a better fit?


----------



## loomisjohnson

B9Scrambler said:


> I don't get the wire hate with the ZS5. Just shape it like this and it not only stays out of the way, but helps keep them very secure. At least the memory wire KZ went with holds the shape you set it to, unlike the crap wire used on most earphones. That stuff is unbearable.


excellent review in which (having spent more time with zs5) i


B9Scrambler said:


> ZS5 review is up!
> 
> 
> 
> REVIEW HERE​


very fine review--having spent more time with the zs5 i concur in nearly all aspects, i do hear a bigger soundstage than you and find they isolate pretty well, which may be a function of fit/anatomy. soundwise, i'd agree that the low end is softer/less punchy than optimal (the otherwise lesser zst has better low end definition), though in other respects this is the most refined kz yet. that said, whether i like it better than the ed9 remains tbd.


----------



## FauDrei

bokiboki said:


> Do I need KZ ZS5 if I have Urbanfun and the sound is ok, but the fitting is not very good, in which part will the sound be better and will I have a better fit?


You don't NEED ZS5... but ZS5 have better soundstage and pick details better, have, kind of, "more refined" sound that scales better with better recordings and better equipment - so you would most probably WANT ZS5.

...as for Urbanfun - their sound is more than OK for $20 whereabouts and since their eartips are on shallow side - third party eartip rolling may do wonders with their sealing and fitting.


----------



## snip3r77

I just need a ZX6 with a more forward mid


----------



## aisalen

I might say that compare with my former and current iem that I have (ttpod e1, fidue a65, tennmak pro carbo tenore, ve monk+ bud, lz a4), kz zs5 is the best for me in terms of SQ so will probably buy another one for reserve and the zst to test as I hear good feedback here. I have incoming it03 to compare, hoping not to disappoint as with what happens with the a4.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> ZS5 review is up!
> 
> 
> 
> REVIEW HERE​


Excellent review @B9Scrambler , now you've raised my anticipation to a feverish pitch! Not much to do about it when one is in the proverbial AliEx holding pattern though The ear wire can be hit or miss for me, the type with these are acceptable

@slaterlovesspam  & @groucho69 How did you know, I still have my Hooks, can wrench, #9's and a stellar pair of Wiss 175E3 Lineman's scissors. (It is my understanding Wiss stopped making them and sold Klein their patent rights years back and now they are considered vintage if you are lucky enough to have a pair) I have won many a free beer at the bar with them betting guys I could cut a penny in half with them


----------



## CYoung234

CYoung234 said:


> Probably not the right forum, but does anyone have a recommendation for a DAC amp to use for the KZ ZS5? My phone is a Nexus 6p, and it may drive them fine, ad it does a decent job with my Fostex T50RPs, which are modified a lot. I was looking at the FIIO E18, as I can use the USB C OTG  on the phone to connect.



Update: I ended up going with the FIIO Q1 in the end. I looked very long and hard at the Topping NX2/3/4 as well as some other FIIOs and the Schiit Fulla, but in the end, the feedback for the Q1 won me over. I looked at the Audioquest Dragonfly red / black as well. I actually ordered the Topping 2x on Amazon and cancelled the orders before they shipped! So much for being decisive.


----------



## CYoung234

groucho69 said:


> Just listening to Genesis,  Carpet Crawlers. OMG!!!



The 1999 re-recorded one or the original? The 1999 one is an amazingly good recording.


----------



## Podster

CYoung234 said:


> Update: I ended up going with the FIIO Q1 in the end. I looked very long and hard at the Topping NX2/3/4 as well as some other FIIOs and the Schiit Fulla, but in the end, the feedback for the Q1 won me over. I looked at the Audioquest Dragonfly red / black as well. I actually ordered the Topping 2x on Amazon and cancelled the orders before they shipped! So much for being decisive.



IMO you made a good choice, I have the NX2 and the DAC section is not it's strong suit. Clean power and aversion to RF along with form factor are what make it for me 

Speaking of the little devil and oh look, driving a pair of KZ's no less


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, it's an old-timey phone reference.
> 
> Butt set is just a tool of the trade. I'm not a lineman like Podster, but I've administered numerous PBXs over the years, and a few of the tools are the same (66/110/etc punchdown blocks, cross connects, tone tools, butt set, etc.). My work is all indoors in wiring closets and phone/server rooms though - no pole climbing. Of course the fancy pants VoIP phone systems don't use this stuff - just old school stuff.
> 
> Here's a pic of a butt set - you've probably seen one dangling from a lineman's tool belt when they're on a pole listening into your phone calls, er I mean *troubleshooting* your phone LOL:



Used to sell the stuff.


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Excellent review @B9Scrambler , now you've raised my anticipation to a feverish pitch! Not much to do about it when one is in the proverbial AliEx holding pattern though The ear wire can be hit or miss for me, the type with these are acceptable
> 
> @slaterlovesspam  & @groucho69 How did you know, I still have my Hooks, can wrench, #9's and a stellar pair of Wiss 175E3 Lineman's scissors. (It is my understanding Wiss stopped making them and sold Klein their patent rights years back and now they are considered vintage if you are lucky enough to have a pair) I have won many a free beer at the bar with them betting guys I could cut a penny in half with them



These bad boys will cut more than a penny.


----------



## groucho69

CYoung234 said:


> The 1999 re-recorded one or the original? The 1999 one is an amazingly good recording.



It certainly is.


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Reading Your review... I still get an itch to try out ZS3.



Coil, can't believe after all this time you have not jumped on a pair of ZS3!!! I still wish I had a glossy pair





@slaterlovesspam , that is a modern Buttset, my pair like my Wiss are for sure old school Remember the kind with rotary dial and bed of nails clips


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jul 13, 2017)

Podster said:


> Excellent review @B9Scrambler , now you've raised my anticipation to a feverish pitch! Not much to do about it when one is in the proverbial AliEx holding pattern though The ear wire can be hit or miss for me, the type with these are acceptable
> 
> @slaterlovesspam  & @groucho69 How did you know, I still have my Hooks, can wrench, #9's and a stellar pair of Wiss 175E3 Lineman's scissors. (It is my understanding Wiss stopped making them and sold Klein their patent rights years back and now they are considered vintage if you are lucky enough to have a pair) I have won many a free beer at the bar with them betting guys I could cut a penny in half with them



Thanks Pod. You'll enjoy them for sure when they arrive!

Nice scissors. I use ol' Pinky here to cut aluminum sheets. Haven't let me down yet. They don't make kids scissors like they used to


----------



## notjustateacher1017

Loving my ZST's but I really wish I had a cable cinch on it because I really like having the cable tight up against the back of my head when I'm performing.  Has anyone had any luck with finding something that works for this?


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks Pod. You'll enjoy them for sure when they arrive!
> 
> Nice scissors. I use ol' Pinky here to cut aluminum sheets. Haven't let me down yet. They don't make kids scissors like they used to



By the way @B9Scrambler was meaning to ask since you seem to prefer the stock cable on these (and after reading your review) that you got the mic version of the stock cable. I'm looking to order the gray pair now (damn your pictures) I have a choice of mic or non mic stock cable, should I just get the mic version so I have the phone option? Also my Blue pair on the way I did order with mic so was thinking I could try the non mic simply because I can swap out if need be and I also consider the mic just another point of failure sometimes (phone man in me coming out again)


----------



## Podster

notjustateacher1017 said:


> Loving my ZST's but I really wish I had a cable cinch on it because I really like having the cable tight up against the back of my head when I'm performing.  Has anyone had any luck with finding something that works for this?



Because I have a bazillion laying around my house (13 year old in braces) you can take one of those little rubber bands and put three twist in it over your cable and it will slide (actually rolled between two fingers) up and down and work just like a slider Pretty easy if you have removable cable but if not and depending on how large your Y-Splitter is you can roll it on from the jack up.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I actually don't have a mic version but I wish I did. Having the option to control my phone is nice. Since the blue one will have the mic, save yourself a couple bucks going without on the grey. Might as well.


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Coil, can't believe after all this time you have not jumped on a pair of ZS3!!! I still wish I had a glossy pair
> 
> 
> @slaterlovesspam , that is a modern Buttset, my pair like my Wiss are for sure old school Remember the kind with rotary dial and bed of nails clips



Yup that's the set I used to sell.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> @slaterlovesspam , that is a modern Buttset, my pair like my Wiss are for sure old school Remember the kind with rotary dial and bed of nails clips



Wow, very cool! Never seen a rotary butt set; only the touch tone style. But I grew up with rotary dial phones in the house.

Those Wiss scissors look wicked!


----------



## Duncan

The ZS5 must have a very nasty impedance curve, so, it is true that the distortion I heard before was from my iPhone, however - and I've not had this happen with any other IEM or otherwise, if I turn up the volume on my Dragonfly Red, it cuts out / resets...

Would love to know what voltage these need to sing sweetly when up loud (not insanely so either).


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

FauDrei said:


> You don't NEED ZS5... but ZS5 have better soundstage and pick details better, have, kind of, "more refined" sound that scales better with better recordings and better equipment - so you would most probably WANT ZS5.
> 
> ...as for Urbanfun - their sound is more than OK for $20 whereabouts and since their eartips are on shallow side - third party eartip rolling may do wonders with their sealing and fitting.



I'm facing the same dilemma. I love the Urbanfun HiFi's "analytical" signature, especially for its controlled bass and crisp treble. It's my favorite IEM among Einsear T2, Xiaomi Hybrid HD Pro and ROCK Zircon.
How do Urbanfun HiFi and ZS5 compare in terms of souns signature?
Aside from signature, I'd like to upgrade to a more revealing IEM capable of unveiling more micro-details.

Gearbest is now selling the grey ZS5 at 16€ ($18.25) by using a coupon, which should be *ludicrously cheap* for the quality it offers, as far as I can read here.
Now... to buy or not buy? That's the question.


----------



## Podster

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I'm facing the same dilemma. I love the Urbanfun HiFi's "analytical" signature, especially for its controlled bass and crisp treble. It's my favorite IEM among Einsear T2, Xiaomi Hybrid HD Pro and ROCK Zircon.
> How do Urbanfun HiFi and ZS5 compare in terms of souns signature?
> Aside from signature, I'd like to upgrade to a more revealing IEM capable of unveiling more micro-details.
> 
> ...



Bai, Bai, Bai! Man I love that commercial


----------



## vad0s

Hello, is there anybody who has already tried the new bluetooth cable from KZ with ZS3 or any other KZ pair? If so, how's the sound and comfort (the cable is pretty long imo). Ty


----------



## Francisk

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I'm facing the same dilemma. I love the Urbanfun HiFi's "analytical" signature, especially for its controlled bass and crisp treble. It's my favorite IEM among Einsear T2, Xiaomi Hybrid HD Pro and ROCK Zircon.
> How do Urbanfun HiFi and ZS5 compare in terms of souns signature?
> Aside from signature, I'd like to upgrade to a more revealing IEM capable of unveiling more micro-details.
> 
> ...


At that price, it will be a sin not to get the ZS5. To me, the ZS5 sounds way better than the Urbanfun HiFi.


----------



## snip3r77

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I'm facing the same dilemma. I love the Urbanfun HiFi's "analytical" signature, especially for its controlled bass and crisp treble. It's my favorite IEM among Einsear T2, Xiaomi Hybrid HD Pro and ROCK Zircon.
> How do Urbanfun HiFi and ZS5 compare in terms of souns signature?
> Aside from signature, I'd like to upgrade to a more revealing IEM capable of unveiling more micro-details.
> 
> ...



Can you pls PM me the code for the discount !


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

Francisk said:


> At that price, it will be a sin not to get the ZS5. To me, the ZS5 sounds way better than the Urbanfun HiFi.



I'm a sinner and I like it, but sometimes you have to be a good boy, I guess.
I've just got them for 16 euros.

*** you all, guys.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

snip3r77 said:


> Can you pls PM me the code for the discount !



https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/b...-reference-list.805930/page-197#post-13598508


----------



## NeonHD (Jul 13, 2017)

*Okay so get this: *not only did I put the foam pieces from the gold filters of the KZ ED9 into the bronze filters, but I also added the foam pieces from the Sony M1HC into the bronze filters as well. This not only got rid of the excess sibilant highs, but also drastically improved the bass which is now as bassy as the gold filters, and all in all it didn't hollow the mids unlike the foam I used from those cleaning sponges. Also like others have mentioned, yeah it's true that the bronze filters have better mids and a wider soundstage. 

 And so now with a sound signature that I can actually bear with, I gotta say..... *THESE ARE THE BEST SOUNDING IEMS HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!! *

Now that is obviously a really big statement, but I've only ever listened to budget IEMs in my entire life so getting these are a HUUUUGE upgrade.

Now the reason why I love these SO VERY MUCH is not really because of the sound signature, but rather the MASSIVELY HUUUUGE soundstage is produces. Like, HOLY SHYT everything sounds super wide and distant and I could hear so many micro details that I've never even heard before with my previous IEMs. I could effortlessly make out each individual layer in the track. It's unbelievable.

I'm so glad I bought the ED9s, I thought they were just a gimmick but I was more than wrong.


----------



## sghound (Jul 14, 2017)

just got my ZS5 and paired it with Audiohive Florea cables.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

why should anyone spend a single cent more than this on IEMs?


----------



## snip3r77

BunchOfAtoms said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/b...-reference-list.805930/page-197#post-13598508



Thanks gotten another pair as backup


----------



## Slater (Jul 14, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> *Okay so get this: *not only did I put the foam pieces from the gold filters of the KZ ED9 into the bronze filters, but I also added the foam pieces from the Sony M1HC into the bronze filters as well. This not only got rid of the excess sibilant highs, but also drastically improved the bass which is now as bassy as the gold filters, and all in all it didn't hollow the mids unlike the foam I used from those cleaning sponges. Also like others have mentioned, yeah it's true that the bronze filters have better mids and a wider soundstage.
> 
> And so now with a sound signature that I can actually bear with, I gotta say..... *THESE ARE THE BEST SOUNDING IEMS HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!! *
> 
> ...



Yeah, ED9 are really good stock. Modded they are even better.

Instead of all that foam though, I found packing fiberfill in the nozzle didn't muddy the bass like the foam did. I also covered the rear vents with tape. Night and day difference!


----------



## loomisjohnson

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, ED9 are really good stock. Modded they are even better.
> 
> Instead of all that foam though, I found packing fiberfill in the nozzle didn't muddy the bass like the foam did. I also covered the rear vents with tape. Night and day difference!


slater, is the optimal mod to put foam or fiberfill in the brass nozzle or to use the gold nozzle?


----------



## Carrow

Gearbest's order tracking system is absolute ass but my ZS5 pair turned up today, hell yes.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms (Jul 14, 2017)

If anyone's interested, here's a GearBest coupon for ZS3 at 5.28€:

FTKZS


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> slater, is the optimal mod to put foam or fiberfill in the brass nozzle or to use the gold nozzle?



I found best results by putting the fiberfill in the gold nozzle. I put enough in that it is loosely compressed, but not so dense that it muffles the sound. When I put fiberfill in full size headphones, I put it in MUCH more loosely (if that helps).

If it would help, I can take a few photos so you get an idea of the amount I used.


----------



## Slater

BunchOfAtoms said:


> If anyone's interested, here's a GearBest coupon for KS3 at 5.28€:
> 
> FTKZS



KS3? What's that? Doesn't even come up when I search.

Do you mean the VJJB K3S?


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

slaterlovesspam said:


> KS3? What's that? Doesn't even come up when I search.
> 
> Do you mean the VJJB K3S?



Whoops, mistyped. Edited. I meant ZS3.
http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?lkid=10980367


----------



## Carrow

@slaterlovesspam I connected the cable the right way this time BTW


----------



## Slater

Carrow said:


> @slaterlovesspam I connected the cable the right way this time BTW



Nice! Glad you got it sorted.


----------



## Carrow

slaterlovesspam said:


> Nice! Glad you got it sorted.



Was a bit fiddly at first but I'm relieved it's been sorted out bc HOLY CRAP THESE SOUND GOOD.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 14, 2017)

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I'm a sinner and I like it, but sometimes you have to be a good boy, I guess.
> I've just got them for 16 euros.
> 
> *** you all, guys.


.......but seriously.......the ZS5 is that good.....I doubt you'll regret it....


----------



## Narayan23

FauDrei said:


> You don't NEED ZS5... but ZS5 have better soundstage and pick details better, have, kind of, "more refined" sound that scales better with better recordings and better equipment - so you would most probably WANT ZS5.
> 
> ...as for Urbanfun - their sound is more than OK for $20 whereabouts and since their eartips are on shallow side - third party eartip rolling may do wonders with their sealing and fitting.



I can confirm a pair of Symbio Mandarines eartips go very well with the Urbanfun, superb isolation.


----------



## Carrow

I have these being driven by a Wolfson WM8740 inside an AK Jr and... yeah, wow. Even though these ZS5s will be playing second fiddle to my recently-acquired pre-owned UE TF10s, I'll be using them more often as the TF10s look like €300 IEMs even if I got them for a fraction of the price, and I'm definitely not risking having them stolen. ZS5s paired with an AK Jr = EARGASM.


----------



## snip3r77

Narayan23 said:


> I can confirm a pair of Symbio Mandarines eartips go very well with the Urbanfun, superb isolation.



JVC Spiral Tip can do a much better price for a fraction of the price


----------



## ostewart

Carrow said:


> I have these being driven by a Wolfson WM8740 inside an AK Jr and... yeah, wow. Even though these ZS5s will be playing second fiddle to my recently-acquired pre-owned UE TF10s, I'll be using them more often as the TF10s look like €300 IEMs even if I got them for a fraction of the price, and I'm definitely not risking having them stolen. ZS5s paired with an AK Jr = EARGASM.



Do you live in a dangerous area then?

I'm happy walking around with my Opus #2 and Hifiman RE2000's...


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

ostewart said:


> Do you live in a dangerous area then?
> 
> I'm happy walking around with my Opus #2 and Hifiman RE2000's...


----------



## Carrow

ostewart said:


> Do you live in a dangerous area then?
> 
> I'm happy walking around with my Opus #2 and Hifiman RE2000's...



I travel to and from Dublin on the reg and have had multiple phones and IEMs stolen when in certain areas, so that has unfortunately become a thing I need to do.


----------



## Narayan23

snip3r77 said:


> JVC Spiral Tip can do a much better price for a fraction of the price



The Mandarines are cheaper on ebay and you get 3 pairs as with the JVC so not sure where you´re getting the fraction of the price info from, have you tried them both?


----------



## Vy7478

Can someone tell me which KZ model is the most detailed and balanced?


----------



## HiFiChris

Vy7478 said:


> Can someone tell me which KZ model is the most detailed and balanced?



Should be the HDS3.


----------



## Vy7478

HiFiChris said:


> Should be the HDS3.



Thanks! How does it compare to the ZS5?


----------



## HiFiChris

Vy7478 said:


> Thanks! How does it compare to the ZS5?



Overall detail retrieval and soundstage/separation is not on the same level, however the HDS3 is much more balanced compared to the (strongly) v-shaped ZS5 (which by the way sounds a lot like the 1More E1001 with somewhat leaner and more pushed-back central mids).

If the ZS5 was the DT990 Pro, the HDS3 would be the K712 (with a somewhat less bright treble presentation).

Probably not unlike your RE-400, but with a bit more warmth and bass in comparison.


----------



## Vy7478

HiFiChris said:


> Overall detail retrieval and soundstage/separation is not on the same level, however the HDS3 is much more balanced compared to the (strongly) v-shaped ZS5 (which by the way sounds a lot like the 1More E1001 with somewhat leaner and more pushed-back central mids).
> 
> If the ZS5 was the DT990 Pro, the HDS3 would be the K712 (with a somewhat less bright treble presentation).
> 
> Probably not unlike your RE-400, but with a bit more warmth and bass in comparison.



Thanks for the comprehensive explanation! I assume the ZST has a similar signature to the ZS5, but a little less refined?


----------



## HiFiChris

Vy7478 said:


> Thanks for the comprehensive explanation! I assume the ZST has a similar signature to the ZS5, but a little less refined?



No idea, I don't have it.


----------



## CoiL

HiFiChris said:


> ... the (strongly) v-shaped ZS5...



Meh?

IMHO ZS5 isn not "_(strongly) v-shaped_" at all... slightly yes, but strongly? - no. You got bad unit with glue-clogged ports or something? What tips did You use?


----------



## Slater

Carrow said:


> Was a bit fiddly at first but I'm relieved it's been sorted out bc HOLY CRAP THESE SOUND GOOD.



Good to hear - I finally caved myself and jumped on the hype train. I just couldn't pass up $18 shipped in good conscience LOL.

Woo woooooo!


----------



## Slater

BunchOfAtoms said:


>



The cool thing about that is the portable CD player sounds better than the iPod LOL


----------



## Carrow

slaterlovesspam said:


> Good to hear - I finally caved myself and jumped on the hype train. I just couldn't pass up *$18 shipped* in good conscience LOL.
> 
> Woo woooooo!



Absolute steal.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

slaterlovesspam said:


> The cool thing about that is the portable CD player sounds better than the iPod LOL



That's what I thought, too.


----------



## -sandro-

I wanna try the ZS5 but seriously how V-shaped are they? Maybe U-shaped? I don't like recessed mids...


----------



## Viber

BunchOfAtoms said:


> If anyone's interested, here's a GearBest coupon for ZS3 at 5.28€:
> 
> FTKZS



Damn, ZS3 for 6$ is kinda insane.
I think i'm ordering a 2nd pair, you can't find anything that good for 10$ or less imo.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Damn, ZS3 for 6$ is kinda insane.
> I think i'm ordering a 2nd pair, you can't find anything that good for 10$ or less imo.



Yeah, crazy deals on gear lately. $53 for xduoo X3, $18 for ZS5, $6 for ZS3.


----------



## kirkftl

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, crazy deals on gear lately. $53 for xduoo X3, $18 for ZS5, $6 for ZS3.



Is the deal for the xduoo still active?


----------



## trellus

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, crazy deals on gear lately. $53 for xduoo X3, *$18 for ZS5*, $6 for ZS3.



It's showing $21.19 for me in the cart, but that's not far off and I keep reading about these so I might need to hop on the hype train with everyone else...


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

trellus said:


> It's showing $21.19 for me in the cart, but that's not far off and I keep reading about these so I might need to hop on the hype train with everyone else...



Try this coupon for the ZS5: ZS5IT
I don't know if it's still valid though.


----------



## trellus

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Try this coupon for the ZS5: ZS5IT
> I don't know if it's still valid though.



Nope, says it expired, but it's still a great price.  The blue is about $3 more, any reason for that, I wonder?


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

trellus said:


> Nope, says it expired, but it's still a great price.  The blue is about $3 more, any reason for that, I wonder?



My guess is that people prefer the grey version, so maybe they have much more blues in stock.


----------



## trellus

BunchOfAtoms said:


> My guess is that people prefer the grey version, so maybe they have much more blues in stock.



I kind of like the grey look better than blue, but either looks fine... so I went with the grey.... can't wait!


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

BunchOfAtoms said:


> My guess is that people prefer the grey version, so maybe they have much more blues in stock.



I actually meant the opposite, but anyway... the marketing of such Chinese stuff is so aggressive that I don't know if the regular laws of the market even apply.


----------



## Vy7478

Is it worth getting both the ZST and the ZS3? Are the sound signatures unique enough to justify having both?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Vy7478 said:


> Is it worth getting both the ZST and the ZS3? Are the sound signatures unique enough to justify having both?



Yup, they're quite different. That said, skip the ZST and get the ZS5 and ZS3, imo.


----------



## Vy7478

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup, they're quite different. That said, skip the ZST and get the ZS5 and ZS3, imo.



Hmm.. interesting, thanks! Also, does anyone know if the ZST matte get/black version on amazon is clear of any channel imbalance issues?


----------



## posnera

Is there a ZS5 without microphone?
I have a 2-pin UE cable, will that work?


----------



## HiFiChris (Jul 15, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Meh?
> 
> IMHO ZS5 isn not "_(strongly) v-shaped_" at all... slightly yes, but strongly? - no. You got bad unit with glue-clogged ports or something? What tips did You use?



Nope, the ports on the side where the housings merge are just fine. Also, my measurements are in-line with those posted on a Korean website, so everything's fine.

Compared to rather neutral IEMs (Etymotic ER-4S/SR, UERM, Fostex Te-02, Shure SE425, HiSoundAudio BA100, ...), the ZS5 falls into the category of having a rather strong v-shape.


----------



## Slater (Jul 15, 2017)

kirkftl said:


> Is the deal for the xduoo still active?



Yeah, I just tested the code a minute ago. $50.99 shipped with coupon code *HXFXDU60* works like a boss.

Keep in mind one HF member says he's gotten the royal runaround by TomTop in the past (not with a xduoo though - he didn't specify any details), although 2 HF members just received their TomTop X3 deal units (smooth as silk with zero issues reported). So YMMV

That's a smoking deal for sure! I'm going to keep my eye out for a hot deal like that on the X10


----------



## Slater

Vy7478 said:


> Hmm.. interesting, thanks! Also, does anyone know if the ZST matte get/black version on amazon is clear of any channel imbalance issues?



The matte and glossy black is the ZS3 not the ZST.

ZST comes in faux carbon fiber or 'colorful' (purple & blue).

As far as channel imbalance, you just have to buy it and see. 90-something% of them are fine. Just like any product, a few slip though with QC issues. Buying from Amazon doesn't guarantee any more or less QC risks than ebay, Aliexpress, Gearbest, etc.


----------



## CoiL

HiFiChris said:


> Nope, the ports on the side where the housings merge are just fine. Also, my measurements are in-line with those posted on a Korean website, so everything's fine.
> 
> Compared to rather neutral IEMs (Etymotic ER-4S/SR, UERM, Fostex Te-02, Shure SE425, HiSoundAudio BA100, ...), the ZS5 falls into the category of having a rather strong v-shape.


I was rather talking about breathing holes near the lower nozzle "inside" the housing that might be clogged littlebit with glue - that affects bass quantity directly in most cases and many KZ IEMs I have opened up aren` t quite consistent with glue amount + ZS5 seems to be full of glue.

But still, I rather call ZS5 towards neutral than strongly V-shaped for sure. Want V-shaped? ZST, ED10, ED9 is more V-shaped and less detailed.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Want V-shaped? ZST, ED10, ED9 is more V-shaped and less detailed.



And EDR1, EDSE, ED3, ZS1, ZS3, ZN1 Mini


----------



## snip3r77

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup, they're quite different. That said, skip the ZST and get the ZS5 and ZS3, imo.


Thanks I thought of getting the zst for fun


----------



## snip3r77

posnera said:


> Is there a ZS5 without microphone?
> I have a 2-pin UE cable, will that work?


Just get the silver cable


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, crazy deals on gear lately. $53 for xduoo X3, $18 for ZS5, $6 for ZS3.



I'm not so sure about the ZS5 tho.  All reviews indicate they are not a level above the ZS3 so why pay 3x more?  (even though it's not big money)


----------



## mochill

Just got the zs5 yesterday and like like so far.


----------



## toddy0191

Viber said:


> I'm not so sure about the ZS5 tho.  All reviews indicate they are not a level above the ZS3 so why pay 3x more?  (even though it's not big money)



IMO they're superior in every way.


----------



## posnera

snip3r77 said:


> Just get the silver cable



link?

The problem with buying another cable is that I'm in the US.  I can get the non-mic version for $32 from Amazon.  Adding a cable to a Gearbest or Ali order kills the pricing.


----------



## Viber

toddy0191 said:


> IMO they're superior in every way.



Can you elaborate?


----------



## Envinite (Jul 15, 2017)

I screwed up.

I tried to erase the 'ZST' logo on my KZ ZST candy by soaking it in a nail polish remover for around 20 mins, just like what this dude did with his ZST candy:



nocchi said:


> I soaked the faceplate on a nail polish remover for about 20 minutes or more, until you notice that the top coat layer is starting to chip-off when scratched.
> 
> lol I didn't use liquid paper eraser to write those, but I did use this silver paint and used toothpick to write on it. Kinda messy but the good thing is you can re-do everything by wiping off some nail polish remover.



But instead making the clear coat peeled off along with the logo, the nail polish just ruin the the ZST's shell, it weakened the plastic, changing it shape and made the pins (for securing to the front shell) chopped off instantly because it's too weak.







The clear coating not even lifted off completely. I don't even think a nail polish is strong enough to ruin a plastic, especially within 20 mins, so I'm not cautioned and leave it for 20 mins in the first place :^(

Lucky for me, my buddy still haven't throw away his broken ZST carbon so I asked him for a sparepart.






Looks cooler TBH, especially with matching translucent tips from my Plextone X41M. It doesn't look like exclusively being sold at LGBT parade anymore :^)

That's said, lesson learned: don't soak plastics on nail polish remover and don't fully trust random poster.

Anyway, does anyone know whether the 2-pins male plug on KZ cable is removable and reusable? I'm thinking on making a blue braided copper cable with pins from my mate's ZST cable, but it looks like the pins plastic is molded on the cable itself? I hope not tho.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

Envinite said:


> I screwed up.
> 
> I tried to erase the 'ZST' logo on my KZ ZST candy by soaking it in a nail polish remover for around 20 mins, just like what this dude did with his ZST candy:
> 
> ...


----------



## mochill

Zs5 bass great subbass that is focused , centered midrange and airy clear trebled.not missing any details


----------



## snip3r77

posnera said:


> link?
> 
> The problem with buying another cable is that I'm in the US.  I can get the non-mic version for $32 from Amazon.  Adding a cable to a Gearbest or Ali order kills the pricing.



https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32820604203.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.bNnfBJ

ZX5 uses 0.78 pins, so it'd work


----------



## B9Scrambler

ZS5 uses .75mm actually. .78mm will be too thick.


----------



## Vy7478

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZS3-Upgra...=UTF8&qid=1500133420&sr=8-1&keywords=kz+cable
https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZST-Upgra...=UTF8&qid=1500133420&sr=8-3&keywords=kz+cable

Does anyone know if these are the same cables? One is for ZS3/ZS5 while the other one is for ED12 and ZST. From what I know, don't they all have the same connector?


----------



## Saoshyant

B9Scrambler said:


> ZS5 uses .75mm actually. .78mm will be too thick.



It's a shame that the .75mm cables I have use a recessed connector, not allowing for a good fit.


----------



## Slater

posnera said:


> link?
> 
> The problem with buying another cable is that I'm in the US.  I can get the non-mic version for $32 from Amazon.  Adding a cable to a Gearbest or Ali order kills the pricing.



I got my silver cables from ebay for $4 shipped. You are talking about the genuine KZ branded ones and not a 3rd party one correct?


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I'm not so sure about the ZS5 tho.  All reviews indicate they are not a level above the ZS3 so why pay 3x more?  (even though it's not big money)



I was simply pointing out that the recent prices from some retailers were steals as compared to the normal prices of the same items from other retailers.

It was not meant as a comparison between the ZS3 and X3 or between the ZS3 and ZS5.


----------



## Slater (Jul 15, 2017)

Vy7478 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZS3-Upgra...=UTF8&qid=1500133420&sr=8-1&keywords=kz+cable
> https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZST-Upgra...=UTF8&qid=1500133420&sr=8-3&keywords=kz+cable
> 
> Does anyone know if these are the same cables? One is for ZS3/ZS5 while the other one is for ED12 and ZST. From what I know, don't they all have the same connector?



Those are the genuine KZ cables, but that price is gouge city.

While the cable material itself is identical, as is the 3.5mm plug, the 0.75mm 2-pin end is different between the 2 models (1 has a straight 2-pin plug and the other has a 90 degree 2-pin plug). Although either style will technically plug into all KZ 2-pin models, the problem is that using the wrong cable on the wrong IEM causes the cable to exit the IEM at a funny angle (which doesn't tuck behind your ear properly).

I've illustrated the difference here:


----------



## posnera

slaterlovesspam said:


> I got my silver cables from ebay for $4 shipped. You are talking about the genuine KZ branded ones and not a 3rd party one correct?



Don't care if they are branded or not.  Just cheap.


----------



## snip3r77

B9Scrambler said:


> ZS5 uses .75mm actually. .78mm will be too thick.


Sorry my bad


----------



## Slater

posnera said:


> Don't care if they are branded or not.  Just cheap.



Well, $4 shipped is about as cheap as you can get. That's what I paid, & I got the genuine KZ cables.


----------



## snip3r77

posnera said:


> Don't care if they are branded or not.  Just cheap.



Look what I found on AliExpress
http://s.aliexpress.com/Ij6BbARb


----------



## B9Scrambler

Vy7478 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZS3-Upgra...=UTF8&qid=1500133420&sr=8-1&keywords=kz+cable
> https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZST-Upgra...=UTF8&qid=1500133420&sr=8-3&keywords=kz+cable
> 
> Does anyone know if these are the same cables? One is for ZS3/ZS5 while the other one is for ED12 and ZST. From what I know, don't they all have the same connector?



If y


snip3r77 said:


> Sorry my bad



No worries . I know there was a lot of confusion about it early on, esp. since some of the early ZS3s used a thicker pin.


----------



## Slater (Jul 15, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Look what I found on AliExpress
> http://s.aliexpress.com/Ij6BbARb



Ah, our old friend TooCheesey

Here, try one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgrade-Ear...m-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ-ZST-Silver-/382134094663

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgrade-Ear...m-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ-ZST-Silver-/222560872768


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Envinite said:


> I screwed up.
> 
> I tried to erase the 'ZST' logo on my KZ ZST candy by soaking it in a nail polish remover for around 20 mins, just like what this dude did with his ZST candy:
> 
> ...



Here's what happened.

Nail polish remover for the most part is actually just acetone.

ABS, a common plastic used in things(such as legos) is cheap and quite durable.  However, it reacts with acetone and will literally melt and turn to slush if left in acetone for too long.  See "abs slurry" for 3d printers if you want to know more.

It appears the ZST Colorful shell is indeed just translucent ABS plastic so you must be very careful when applying acetone/nail polish remover when trying to remove the logo.  Otherwise it'll deform.

I actually probably wouldn't even bother trying to remove the lettering.  Too risky.


----------



## -sandro-

Where can I find a comparison between zs3 and zs5, for both details and signature. Also is the einsear similar to the zs5 having similar price?

PS: weird how one says the zs5 is strongly vshaped and another mid centric  could it mean there are manufacturing differences?


----------



## B9Scrambler

-sandro- said:


> Where can I find a comparison between zs3 and zs5, for both details and signature. Also is the einsear similar to the zs5 having similar price?
> 
> PS: weird how one says the zs5 is strongly vshaped and another mid centric  could it mean there are manufacturing differences?



My review has a brief comparison between the ZS5 and ZS3; https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/reviews#review-18861


----------



## toddy0191

Viber said:


> Can you elaborate?





mochill said:


> Zs5 bass great subbass that is focused , centered midrange and airy clear trebled.not missing any details



Mochill sums it up perfectly.

The detail level, separation, layering and extension at both ends are superior.  The sub bass in particular is fantastic. To me they sound very similar to full size headphones.

I'm not saying the ZS3s are bad, but I think the ZS5s are superior to anything I've listened to within their price range.

I've barely listened to my ZS3s since buying them months ago, but haven't been able to take the ZS5s out of my ears!


----------



## CoiL

-sandro- said:


> PS: weird how one says the zs5 is strongly vshaped and another mid centric  could it mean there are manufacturing differences?



Yes it`s weird. Usually I agree 100% with HiFi-Chris for example but not with ZS5 tho. ZS5 to me is similar to KZ ANV 2nd gen which was most neutral sounding KZ IEM to me before ZS5 but lacked slightly in subbass extension and quantity and also required proper medium sized hard-skirt silicones (blue core CX300 replacement tips) in front ear chamber to sound best.
ZS5 fixed all those issues for me and are superior in every aspect, just using stock tips and everything is great! 
JVC Spiral Dot`s are also great with ZS5 btw.


----------



## jaydm99

To anyone who wants to remove the logos/brandings on their KZs, use vinyl wrap instead. Just heat it up with a hair dryer to make it stick on a non flat surface. 

Here's what I did to my gloss ZS3


----------



## Sylmar

Jay Magaling said:


> To anyone who wants to remove the logos/brandings on their KZs, use vinyl wrap instead. Just heat it up with a hair dryer to make it stick on a non flat surface.
> 
> Here's what I did to my gloss ZS3



That looks quite nice. From what I've seen the huge LEFT & RIGHT markings were always a bit silly to me to begin with.


----------



## Envinite

SomeTechNoob said:


> Here's what happened.
> 
> Nail polish remover for the most part is actually just acetone.
> 
> ...



I see, thanks for the info. I know it's basically acetone, but I don't expect it to react as fast as dipping plastics on harsher substance like wall paint remover.


----------



## Envinite

Jay Magaling said:


> To anyone who wants to remove the logos/brandings on their KZs, use vinyl wrap instead. Just heat it up with a hair dryer to make it stick on a non flat surface.
> 
> Here's what I did to my gloss ZS3



Done that before . It looks great on first week, but because the ZS3 is too curvy, I find that even the tightest fit of vinyl application, it will eventually get loose (I applied 'Oracal' brand vinyl on every possible surface with multiple vinyl parts and heated it).

I find that simply spray it (without disassembly it) with thin layer of black matte spray paint is easier and make better result, makes the $8 looks like $60.


----------



## jaydm99

Envinite said:


> Done that before . It looks great on first week, but because the ZS3 is too curvy, I find that even the tightest fit of vinyl application, it will eventually get loose (I applied 'Oracal' brand vinyl on every possible surface with multiple vinyl parts and heated it).
> 
> I find that simply spray it (without disassembly it) with thin layer of black matte spray paint is easier and make better result, makes the $8 looks like $60.


I only applied the vinyl on the left and right logos. It wont come off easily cause it's a flat surface


----------



## jaydm99

Envinite said:


> Done that before . It looks great on first week, but because the ZS3 is too curvy, I find that even the tightest fit of vinyl application, it will eventually get loose (I applied 'Oracal' brand vinyl on every possible surface with multiple vinyl parts and heated it).
> 
> I find that simply spray it (without disassembly it) with thin layer of black matte spray paint is easier and make better result, makes the $8 looks like $60.


I only applied the vinyl on the left and right logos. It wont come off easily cause it's a flat surface


----------



## Audiotistic

What about sanding the faceplate with some fine grit sandpaper?


----------



## Mellowship

Envinite said:


> I screwed up.
> 
> I tried to erase the 'ZST' logo on my KZ ZST candy by soaking it in a nail polish remover for around 20 mins, just like what this dude did with his ZST candy:
> 
> ...


Man, nail polish remover is THE thing you want to get away from plastic! Acetone is very aggressive to the petrol-based polymers. 
But the final result with the faux carbon fiber from the regular zst look good!


----------



## Mellowship

Got the ZS5 yesterday. First impressions are wow. Widest soundstage of all kz range. Good bass and treble extension. Treble not agressiva, very smooth and detailed. Slightly v shaped signature with some sources like mobile phone and computer, more balanced when amped. More microdinamics and overall detail then ZS3. I believe these have a more "audiophile" sound signature. Very enjoyable. Got the silver cable as well, and I can confirm it is unusuable with the metal earguides. Had to trim them.


----------



## skajohyros

Mellowship said:


> Got the ZS5 yesterday. First impressions are wow. Widest soundstage of all kz range. Good bass and treble extension. Treble not agressiva, very smooth and detailed. Slightly v shaped signature with some sources like mobile phone and computer, more balanced when amped. More microdinamics and overall detail then ZS3. I believe these have a more "audiophile" sound signature. Very enjoyable. Got the silver cable as well, and I can confirm it is unusuable with the metal earguides. Had to trim them.


Do you hear any difference between the two cables?


----------



## Mellowship

skajohyros said:


> Do you hear any difference between the two cables?


Yes. The silver one rustles because it's braided. The stock one is more rubbery. 

Jokes apart, didn't test it. Just got the silver cable because the cable from my ZS3 was failing, and I am using the zs5's stock cable as a substitute on my ZS3 now. I don't believe the differences are audible though. But I am not used with the ZS5 sound yet. Maybe I'll test it with the ZS3. If it makes a difference from the stock I will let you know.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 15, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> Where can I find a comparison between zs3 and zs5, for both details and signature. Also is the einsear similar to the zs5 having similar price?
> 
> PS: weird how one says the zs5 is strongly vshaped and another mid centric  could it mean there are manufacturing differences?


I think it's more like insertion and fit differences with ear tips rather than manufacturing differences that's causing the sound variation


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> That looks quite nice. From what I've seen the huge LEFT & RIGHT markings were always a bit silly to me to begin with.



How about the fact that it says "in ear". No DUH, really? I thought it was a butt-plug. Thank gosh it says "in ear" because I couldn't tell otherwise.


----------



## -sandro-

Mellowship said:


> Yes. The silver one rustles because it's braided. The stock one is more rubbery.
> 
> Jokes apart, didn't test it. Just got the silver cable because the cable from my ZS3 was failing, and I am using the zs5's stock cable as a substitute on my ZS3 now. I don't believe the differences are audible though. But I am not used with the ZS5 sound yet. Maybe I'll test it with the ZS3. If it makes a difference from the stock I will let you know.


how do they differ for you?


----------



## Slater (Jul 15, 2017)

FYI, my KZ bluetooth cable came today.

The cable itself is identical to the stock cable that comes with the ZS3 - thin, black, a little stiff, with the identical ends/memory wire/memory wire sheathing. Since I use the silver upgrade wire on my ZS3 and ZST, I can't comment as to the longevity of the ZS3 stock wire.

*But I did determine that the ZS3/ZS5 version also fits the ZST.* It's only using friction of the rounded plug key plus the 0.75mm pins to hold it in, so it's not as rock solid as it would be on the ZS3 (where there's an incredible friction fit between the outer portion of the jack and the ZS3 shell). But it's definitely not so loose that it just falls apart. The force it takes to remove is somewhere in between the two, as evidenced by mowing the lawn followed by 6 miles of in-line skating, where they haven't loosened in any way. I was also worried about the fact that the ZS3 2-pin plug is straight (compared to the 90-degree 2-pin plug found on the ZST), but they fit around my ears perfectly fine.

So from my experience so far, I wouldn't worry about using any of the ZS3 cables on the ZST - stock, silver upgrade, or bluetooth.

The sound has the typical bluetooth sound - it definitely sounds a little compressed. But just fine for the typical things you'd use bluetooth for - yardwork, exercise, working around the house, etc. The ZS3 doesn't sound all that great with the bluetooth cable. I'm not sure if it's an impedance thing or the sound difference with bluetooth itself, but the ZS3 sounds noticeably "lower-fi" with the bluetooth cable vs the hard wired cable. I don't hear as much of a degradation with the ZST, so for now I plan to just use the bluetooth cable with the ZST.

One thing I don't like is that the control box is offset to one side vs being centered in the cable. It gives this weird "unbalanced" feeling when wearing it. It also makes wearing the cable behind your head almost impossible, because the control box hangs on 1 side, won't stay behind my head because of this, and the imbalance constantly tugs on the left IEM (loosening the seal). It's really annoying, so I can only wear the cable in the front.

I experienced 2 minor bluetooth skips/cutouts when mowing the lawn, despite my phone being 2 feet away in my pocket. It could have been 2.4G wifi or microwave interference or even EMI from the battery-powered mower I was using. But I have never experienced this with my other bluetooth headphones.

I'm still testing the battery life, so I don't know if it's the old one or the new one (I'll update this post with the results of the battery testing). Just like other recent HFers, mine also says Bluetooth v4.1 on the box but v4.2 in the instruction booklet. So I'll have to just use the battery life as the method to figure out which version I have.

I also haven't had a chance to see if there's any audio lag/delay, so I don't know if it's viable for games or movies yet. I'll update this post once I've tested this.

So far, it seems worth the $10 I spent on it.

_*Update: Over (2) full battery charges I get an average of 3.5hrs per charge (at 50% volume). Based on this, I'm assuming I received the latest version. I also removed the memory wire, which improved fitment and comfort considerably. Finally, I tested with some YouTube videos, and there's a very minor audio lag. It's not as bad as an English-dubbed kung fu movie, but you can tell there's a fraction of a second's worth of lag between a person's mouth moving and the audio. Based on that, I don't plan on using this particular bluetooth cable for movies. Finally, the cable does seem to be susceptible to some EMI sources. For example, when I leave my car and lock the doors using my keychain remote, there is a quick skip (interruption) in the audio. I haven't used it around the microwave oven, but that significantly degrades every bluetooth device I own. So I don't expect the KZ cable to be any different.

Since it appears that I received the latest version (based on the battery life and fairly stable connection), I'll share the seller where I purchased my cable from:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...grade-Module-for-ZST-ZS3-ZS5/32815821305.html
*_


----------



## Francisk

slaterlovesspam said:


> FYI, my KZ bluetooth cable came today.
> 
> The cable itself is identical to the stock cable that comes with the ZS3 - thin, black, a little stiff, with the identical ends/memory wire/memory wire sheathing. Since I use the silver upgrade wire on my ZS3 and ZST, I can't comment as to the longevity of the ZS3 stock wire.
> 
> ...


Still waiting for my KZ Bluetooth cable to arrive. I grabbed the gold cable for my ZST too


----------



## Sylmar

slaterlovesspam said:


> How about the fact that it says "in ear". No DUH, really? I thought it was a butt-plug. Thank gosh it says "in ear" because I couldn't tell otherwise.



LOL so true. 
I ordered them by the way, even though I really like the ZS5 but I'm curious about the sound difference I saw some mention.


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> FYI, my KZ bluetooth cable came today.
> 
> The cable itself is identical to the stock cable that comes with the ZS3 - thin, black, a little stiff, with the identical ends/memory wire/memory wire sheathing. Since I use the silver upgrade wire on my ZS3 and ZST, I can't comment as to the longevity of the ZS3 stock wire.
> 
> ...



Thank u for the info!

The cable sounds like a pretty average product, not so sure it's worth it when you can get a new BT set for a dollar or two more. 
 I'm also not sure that in this day and age bluetooth=less audio quality, BT headphones sound pretty good now so maybe the cable has a bad DAC or an outdated chip in it.

In addition, the newer version is BT 4.2 and not 4.1 as stated in your seller page. That's how you differentiate between the older versions and the news one.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> How about the fact that it says "in ear". No DUH, really? I thought it was a butt-plug. Thank gosh it says "in ear" because I couldn't tell otherwise.


----------



## Slater (Jul 16, 2017)

Viber said:


> In addition, the newer version is BT 4.2 and not 4.1 as stated in your seller page. That's how you differentiate between the older versions and the news one.



Correct. The problem is that KZ is packaging the new 4.2 cable in the old box that says 4.1. So there's no way to visually identify (yet) which version you are buying. The only way to know (at the current time at least) is to test the battery life. If it's 1-2 hours, you have the old cable (4.1 and disconnect problems). If it's around 4hrs, you have the new version (4.2 and disconnect problems resolved).

And yes, when listening to high res files Bluetooth vs hard wired, I can definitely tell the difference. But I could care less when I'm using Bluetooth for things like mowing the lawn or going for a jog.

I plan on doing more testing with the ZS3 to determine why it specifically sounds extra bad with the Bluetooth cable (vs say the ZST). It sounds great hard wired. It's very odd - it isn't the type of sound difference caused by Bluetooth (a compressed sound), but rather a veiled and muffled sound over the whole frequency range. It could be an impedance issue, or perhaps lack of power. I think the latter, because the ZS3 scales well when amped.


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> Correct. The problem is that KZ is packaging the new 4.2 cable in the old box that says 4.1. So there's no way to visually identify (yet) which version you are buying. The only way to know (at the current time at least) is to test the battery life. If it's 1-2 hours, you have the old cable (4.1 and disconnect problems). If it's around 4hrs, you have the new version (4.2 and disconnect problems resolved).
> 
> And yes, when listening to high res files Bluetooth vs hard wired, I can definitely tell the difference. But I could care less when I'm using Bluetooth for things like mowing the lawn or going for a jog.
> 
> I plan on doing more testing with the ZS3 to determine why it specifically sounds extra bad with the Bluetooth cable (vs say the ZST). It sounds great hard wired. It's very odd - it isn't the type of sound difference caused by Bluetooth (a compressed sound), but rather a veiled and muffled sound over the whole frequency range. It could be an impedance issue, or perhaps lack of power. I think the latter, because the ZS3 scales well when amped.



Yes, ZS3 is *very* source dependent.  Everytime i hook it up to my HRT dac+amp i realize they get a weird reputation because you can't just hook them up to a phone and form an opinion on them - which is what most people do.

Just ordered my 2nd pair, i hate the memory wire more than i hate taxes but the sound and isolation is amazing for 6$.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Yes, ZS3 is *very* source dependent.  Everytime i hook it up to my HRT dac+amp i realize they get a weird reputation because you can't just hook them up to a phone and form an opinion on them - which is what most people do.
> 
> Just ordered my 2nd pair, i hate the memory wire more than i hate taxes but the sound and isolation is amazing for 6$.



You're definitely right. I never knew that about the ZS3, and I've had them since the gloss black version was released. I've never used them on anything but the xduoo X3 with and without the FiiO E12 amp. I just tried them (hard wired) on my iPod Classic 5.5 and iPod Touch 5th gen, and they don't sound the same as I'm used to. They definitely sound different on the bluetooth cable as well, and I don't like the sound with the bluetooth at all. Anyone who doubts the ZS3 sound degradation when using the KZ bluetooth cable, be my guest and try it yourself.

This now makes me wonder about the ZS5 when paired with the KZ bluetooth cable. The ZS5 is reported to be very source dependent as well. I'll know for sure in a few weeks when my ZS5 arrives from Gearbest.

I also dislike that memory wire - Last night I removed it from the silver upgrade wire and the KZ bluetooth cable, and it's sooo much better without it! I can't believe I didn't remove it before now.


----------



## vad0s

Thanks for the info slaterlovesspam, could tell me how's the comfort with the BT cable? It seems pretty long by description. Isn't it hanging too low when you're wearing it? Thanks!


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> You're definitely right. I never knew that about the ZS3, and I've had them since the gloss black version was released. I've never used them on anything but the xduoo X3 with and without the FiiO E12 amp. I just tried them (hard wired) on my iPod Classic 5.5 and iPod Touch 5th gen, and they don't sound the same as I'm used to. They definitely sound different on the bluetooth cable as well, and I don't like the sound with the bluetooth at all. Anyone who doubts the ZS3 sound degradation when using the KZ bluetooth cable, be my guest and try it yourself.
> 
> This now makes me wonder about the ZS5 when paired with the KZ bluetooth cable. The ZS5 is reported to be very source dependent as well. I'll know for sure in a few weeks when my ZS5 arrives from Gearbest.
> 
> I also dislike that memory wire - Last night I removed it from the silver upgrade wire and the KZ bluetooth cable, and it's sooo much better without it! I can't believe I didn't remove it before now.



My impression:
-ZS3 unamped: Fun sound, but the Bass is at the front, Mids and Highs are lumped together like a warm ball and annoying harshness is present around ~2.5K-5K.

-ZS3 amped: Bass is there, but not at the front, better separation between Lows-Mids-Highs. The sound breathes more and the stage feels wider. I don't feel the urgency to cut/EQ the areas with said harshness anymore. 

I'm sure KZ just skimped on the DAC inside the BT cable. 
My Awei BT set sounds better than all 3 other wired models i got from Awei, so "bad sound from BT" is not set in stone anymore.  Disconnects at certain places like Intersections,Electric hubs etc are definitely annoying though.

I'm telling you, we have to solder the ZS3/ZS5 regular cable to a quality BT cable/remote from another brand.

How do u remove the "memory" from the wire??  doesn't it ruin the cable? especially at the part near the 2-pin connection...  Are the pieces steady in your ears after the removal? what is holding the wires behind your ears if there are no weights like in the ATR?


----------



## Slater (Jul 16, 2017)

Viber said:


> How do u remove the "memory" from the wire??  doesn't it ruin the cable? especially at the part near the 2-pin connection...  Are the pieces steady in your ears after the removal? what is holding the wires behind your ears if there are no weights like in the ATR?



Use your fingernail and dig at the bottom end of the wire. When the wire is exposed, you simply 'peel up' on the memory wire like you are peeling apart a stick of "string cheese" or a Twizzlers Pull-n-Peel. Once the memory wire is completely removed, you can easily tear off the outer sheath of rubber that was over the memory wire.

As far as the pieces being steady, they aren't as stable as the ATR/ATR because there's no weights. But they do a fairly good job of staying put. I wear glasses, so the arms of my glasses keeps them in place (I put the headphones on without my glasses, and then put on my glasses/sunglasses, so the arms of the glasses are holding the wires in place.

Here's a photo illustrating how you peel the wire out. Sorry it's just string cheese and not the real thing, but the idea is exactly the same LOL


----------



## Slater (Jul 16, 2017)

vad0s said:


> Thanks for the info slaterlovesspam, could tell me how's the comfort with the BT cable? It seems pretty long by description. Isn't it hanging too low when you're wearing it? Thanks!



The length of the bluetooth cable is 27.5", but remember that 6-8" is taken up by the wire wrapping over and behind your ears.

If you want to see how it will fit your ears/head, cut a piece of string/wire/yarn, and wrap it over and behind your ears and let it dangle in the middle like you are wearing a necklace. Start each end of your string/wire/yarn where the arrow is indicated in this photo:


----------



## DareTo

So what have people's experiences been with third-party tips on the ZS5? My new pair are my first 'good' IEMs and I want good tips to go with them. I'm wary of Comply foam after trying them several years ago and having them start falling apart (leaving bits of foam in my ear) within a week.

Symbio tips by MandarinEs seem to be getting positive reviews. Is anyone using them with the ZS5. If so, did you get normal or wide bore, and what's your experience been?

Other possibilities: JVC Spiral Dots, Spinfits, others?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I think the majority of people like the default starline tips that come with the zs5s


----------



## snip3r77

SomeTechNoob said:


> I think the majority of people like the default starline tips that come with the zs5s



I can't get a good fit ( vacuum ) with starlines. I use JVC Spirals instead


----------



## Slater (Jul 16, 2017)

DareTo said:


> So what have people's experiences been with third-party tips on the ZS5? My new pair are my first 'good' IEMs and I want good tips to go with them. I'm wary of Comply foam after trying them several years ago and having them start falling apart (leaving bits of foam in my ear) within a week.
> 
> Symbio tips by MandarinEs seem to be getting positive reviews. Is anyone using them with the ZS5. If so, did you get normal or wide bore, and what's your experience been?
> 
> Other possibilities: JVC Spiral Dots, Spinfits, others?



Starlines and JVC Spiral Dots are my favorite tips.

There is at least 1 recent complaint on the Symbios that the foam they use is too hard and that it starts to hurt after an hour or so. YMMV though. I personally think they're overpriced (as are Spinfits), and you can make your own foam hybrid eartip by taking a pair of foam ear plugs, cutting off the tip, punching a hole in them using a hole punch, and sliding the piece of foam down inside any of your favorite silicone ear tips. I've made a number of hybrid eartips that way, and it takes all of 2 minutes. I buy the orange earplugs at Harbor Freight - the box of 50 pairs is always on sale for $3-4. They are also great to pass out to your family or friends at concerts who always seem to forget to bring earplugs.


----------



## IamMe90

So uh... do people notice a big difference after burn in with kz zs5? I'm not a big believer in that phenomenon, but I can't think of any other explanation for the disparity between what I'm hearing and the glowing impressions people seem to have of it in this thread. I'm like, totally underwhelmed by it. So far, it sounds substantially less good than TA's Hyperion, their cheapest model, in every respect, and not really that much better than some cheap $20 sony earbuds I've bought from Walgreens before. The detail retrieval is slightly above average, the bass is okay, the sound seems to get pretty distorted high volumes, and there's a sort of muffled quality that pervades the entire sound signature. If this doesn't change significantly, this will be of the one the most disappointing purchases I've ever made :/

Am I totally crazy? Jeez it sure seems that way lol


----------



## Saoshyant

IamMe90 said:


> So uh... do people notice a big difference after burn in with kz zs5? I'm not a big believer in that phenomenon, but I can't think of any other explanation for the disparity between what I'm hearing and the glowing impressions people seem to have of it in this thread. I'm like, totally underwhelmed by it. So far, it sounds substantially less good than TA's Hyperion, their cheapest model, in every respect, and not really that much better than some cheap $20 sony earbuds I've bought from Walgreens before. The detail retrieval is slightly above average, the bass is okay, the sound seems to get pretty distorted high volumes, and there's a sort of muffled quality that pervades the entire sound signature. If this doesn't change significantly, this will be of the one the most disappointing purchases I've ever made :/
> 
> Am I totally crazy? Jeez it sure seems that way lol



I'm sooner thinking there's a bit of a QC issue, as that to me at least would explain some of the disparity.


----------



## Slater

IamMe90 said:


> So uh... do people notice a big difference after burn in with kz zs5? I'm not a big believer in that phenomenon, but I can't think of any other explanation for the disparity between what I'm hearing and the glowing impressions people seem to have of it in this thread. I'm like, totally underwhelmed by it. So far, it sounds substantially less good than TA's Hyperion, their cheapest model, in every respect, and not really that much better than some cheap $20 sony earbuds I've bought from Walgreens before. The detail retrieval is slightly above average, the bass is okay, the sound seems to get pretty distorted high volumes, and there's a sort of muffled quality that pervades the entire sound signature. If this doesn't change significantly, this will be of the one the most disappointing purchases I've ever made :/
> 
> Am I totally crazy? Jeez it sure seems that way lol



What source are you using? Cell phone? iPod? FiiO X3?

Have you tried it amplified?


----------



## emusic13

Wow a company that first tried to copy InEar and now are copying the design from Campfire Audio


----------



## Slater

emusic13 said:


> Wow a company that first tried to copy InEar and now are copying the design from Campfire Audio



Welcome to China - what else is new?

https://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/why-do-the-chinese-copy-so-much/


----------



## Sylmar

emusic13 said:


> Wow a company that first tried to copy InEar and now are copying the design from Campfire Audio



Personally I don't think they need it. KZ has proven with the ZS5 to being able to bring great sound for an affordable price. I wouldn't have cared if they would have taken a more generic design. At any rate I'd give the ZS5 a try if I were you, you might be surprised.


----------



## toddy0191

IamMe90 said:


> So uh... do people notice a big difference after burn in with kz zs5? I'm not a big believer in that phenomenon, but I can't think of any other explanation for the disparity between what I'm hearing and the glowing impressions people seem to have of it in this thread. I'm like, totally underwhelmed by it. So far, it sounds substantially less good than TA's Hyperion, their cheapest model, in every respect, and not really that much better than some cheap $20 sony earbuds I've bought from Walgreens before. The detail retrieval is slightly above average, the bass is okay, the sound seems to get pretty distorted high volumes, and there's a sort of muffled quality that pervades the entire sound signature. If this doesn't change significantly, this will be of the one the most disappointing purchases I've ever made :/
> 
> Am I totally crazy? Jeez it sure seems that way lol



Don't want to sound condescending, but have you made sure the connectors are the right way round?


----------



## ricemanhk

IamMe90 said:


> So uh... do people notice a big difference after burn in with kz zs5? I'm not a big believer in that phenomenon, but I can't think of any other explanation for the disparity between what I'm hearing and the glowing impressions people seem to have of it in this thread. I'm like, totally underwhelmed by it. So far, it sounds substantially less good than TA's Hyperion, their cheapest model, in every respect, and not really that much better than some cheap $20 sony earbuds I've bought from Walgreens before. The detail retrieval is slightly above average, the bass is okay, the sound seems to get pretty distorted high volumes, and there's a sort of muffled quality that pervades the entire sound signature. If this doesn't change significantly, this will be of the one the most disappointing purchases I've ever made :/
> 
> Am I totally crazy? Jeez it sure seems that way lol



That sounds a little like a polarity issue.  Check the polarity and/or your wires.  Unfortunately there HAVE been cases where the polarity was incorrect inside the IEM, so you have to switch the wire around...


----------



## Francisk

SomeTechNoob said:


> I think the majority of people like the default starline tips that come with the zs5s


Many like me cannot stand the sound of the stock KZ Starline tips on the ZST and ZS5. I personally find the Comply T400 tips sound the best with both ZST and ZS5, YMMV.


----------



## Mellowship

Francisk said:


> Many like me cannot stand the sound of the stock KZ Starline tips on the ZST and ZS5. I personally find the Comply T400 tips sound the best with both ZST and ZS5, YMMV.



The ZS5 goes well with T400/500 size foam tips. Personally, I prefer generic good quality cheap foam tips to the Complys. Many AE sellers have this kind of foamies for about 0.70 USD a pair. I don't dislike the starline tips, but I can't use them with the ZS3, because of the "vacuum" effect, typical of those IEMs, and generally on every kind of over-the-ear IEMs, because they tend to get displaced and loose sealing. Maybe it is because I have large ear channels. I use the starlines mainly in other IEMs like the ED9, the VJJB V1, the EDSE...


----------



## IamMe90

toddy0191 said:


> Don't want to sound condescending, but have you made sure the connectors are the right way round?



Not condescending at all, I'm new to this hobby and this is the first IEM I've gotten with removable wires at the headphone... and it was the problem! The R connector was plugged in upside down. 

Thanks for the help guys


----------



## Podster

A little Old-School KZ love


----------



## peskypesky (Jul 17, 2017)

Podster said:


> A little Old-School KZ love



yes, sir!

My summer rig:





Benjie S5b and KZ ED9 item's.


I should be receiving my KZ ZS5's any day now....


----------



## groucho69

peskypesky said:


> yes, sir!
> 
> My summer rig:
> 
> ...



Ya gonna love 'em!!


----------



## waveriderhawaii

Anyone got a link to KZ's official site? Hopefully in English and not an Ali or Taobao site. My Google-fu has come up with nothing.


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> The ZS5 goes well with T400/500 size foam tips. Personally, I prefer generic good quality cheap foam tips to the Complys. Many AE sellers have this kind of foamies for about 0.70 USD a pair. I don't dislike the starline tips, but I can't use them with the ZS3, because of the "vacuum" effect, typical of those IEMs, and generally on every kind of over-the-ear IEMs, because they tend to get displaced and loose sealing. Maybe it is because I have large ear channels. I use the starlines mainly in other IEMs like the ED9, the VJJB V1, the EDSE...



I've been satisfied with the starlines, but I decided to try the T400s. Impressive.


----------



## Slater

waveriderhawaii said:


> Anyone got a link to KZ's official site? Hopefully in English and not an Ali or Taobao site. My Google-fu has come up with nothing.



They don't have one as far as I'm aware.


----------



## peskypesky

waveriderhawaii said:


> Anyone got a link to KZ's official site? Hopefully in English and not an Ali or Taobao site. My Google-fu has come up with nothing.



this is all i could find:
http://www.kzheadphone.com


----------



## peskypesky

"One day Jack friend asked if he could buy a better headphone. Jack said his headphone is good enough. Is it cold be better? His friend said. It's not worth, on the other hand, I'm poor. Jack said with a sigh. 
Jack love music,had been in a band.But didn't care about the "untrue"sound from headphone. Afterwards, he inadvertently heard the sound by the "better" headphone of his friend. That's amazing! It seems that he listen the familiar song for the first time. Girl's High Audiovisual ethereal sky beautiful melodious birds. Penetrates the soul voice, as if the singer is in the ear to talk. 
Jack fell in love with this fantastic experience. Better will cost to much, but could open a different world. At first he repair headphones, then sales headphones. 
Once in a exhibition, Jack finally meet the boss of the "better" headphone. He was so excited, and told his story, give some suggest of their headphone. He never thought the boss ignored him, even said Jack can't understand the headphones.He never thought they disrespect HiFi fans. 
Jack make a firm decision to make HiFi fans own headphones. His inflexible inspired many dreamer of headphone engineer.Better than better, Let each one found a new sound world. This is KZ. 
Salute to the "better" headphone. It make life beautiful. 
Salute to aspiring people, they are changing the world."

http://www.kzheadphone.com/company_profile.html


----------



## jason2087 (Jul 17, 2017)

ricemanhk said:


> That sounds a little like a polarity issue.  Check the polarity and/or your wires.  Unfortunately there HAVE been cases where the polarity was incorrect inside the IEM, so you have to switch the wire around...



This happend to me, mine were reversed inside.  When I flipped them it made a night and day difference. I was trying to figure out why mine were so bad sounding.

If yours sound off just flip them even if it doesn't line up right.


----------



## waveriderhawaii

peskypesky said:


> "One day Jack friend asked if he could buy a better headphone. Jack said his headphone is good enough. Is it cold be better? His friend said. It's not worth, on the other hand, I'm poor. Jack said with a sigh.
> Jack love music,had been in a band.But didn't care about the "untrue"sound from headphone. Afterwards, he inadvertently heard the sound by the "better" headphone of his friend. That's amazing! It seems that he listen the familiar song for the first time. Girl's High Audiovisual ethereal sky beautiful melodious birds. Penetrates the soul voice, as if the singer is in the ear to talk.
> Jack fell in love with this fantastic experience. Better will cost to much, but could open a different world. At first he repair headphones, then sales headphones.
> Once in a exhibition, Jack finally meet the boss of the "better" headphone. He was so excited, and told his story, give some suggest of their headphone. He never thought the boss ignored him, even said Jack can't understand the headphones.He never thought they disrespect HiFi fans.
> ...



Thanks man. That's about a useless site haha. Was looking for some sort of official writes up with the specs and stuff for the KZ ZS5. I got this from KZ's Ali store which has a ton of info, but I was wondering if they had more. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...lgo_pvid=7aa6ccb2-9e02-4b0e-be55-70c661bf762b

Also was looking for company history too.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

So just making sure: if I want to pick up the newest revision of the bluetooth cable I need to look for Bluetooth 4.2?

It looks to be around $7.50 or so for both the ZST and ZS3 versions which seems quite reasonable.  The el cheapo bluetooth earbuds I bought here in Shenzhen, China costed me $15usd and have some emi noise in one ear which bugs me just enough for me to not use them and instead give them away as a gift or something.

Might pick up the ZST cable and give it a try.  I'm assuming it's the same BT module just with the angled connector though.


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> So just making sure: if I want to pick up the newest revision of the bluetooth cable I need to look for Bluetooth 4.2?
> 
> It looks to be around $7.50 or so for both the ZST and ZS3 versions which seems quite reasonable.  The el cheapo bluetooth earbuds I bought here in Shenzhen, China costed me $15usd and have some emi noise in one ear which bugs me just enough for me to not use them and instead give them away as a gift or something.
> 
> Might pick up the ZST cable and give it a try.  I'm assuming it's the same BT module just with the angled connector though.



Yes, technically 4.2, but the outer box won't say 4.2, and many sellers don't even know there was a change (so their listings still say 4.1). So it's kind of a crapshoot.

Once you get a cable, if it lasts for around 4 hrs, you know you got the right one.


----------



## Viber

ZS5 is 19$ on GB now...


----------



## sfogar

Viber said:


> ZS5 is 19$ on GB now...



Link please ? Cannot find this price...


----------



## Viber

sfogar said:


> Link please ? Cannot find this price...



http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## sfogar

Viber said:


> http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html



Many thanks...


----------



## nihontoman

Recently got my hands on KZ ZS5 (present from girlfriend) and I must say it's WAY better than the ZS3. I mean there is NO comparison between these two. here are my initial impressions after about 6 hours of cumulative experience:

Comfort: Only thing that the ZS3 does better is the shape of the housing and therefore higher comfort levels. Not to say the ZS5 is uncomfortable, especially with other tips like sony hybrids (which don't really change the sound much) or any other softer, less rigid flange tips. I have some no name foam tips coming from Aliexpress, and will say how those perform. Right now though I have a VERY wide bore and almost as soft as the Sony hybrids tips and well, they are pretty comfortable. Don't know what they are or if you can get them, AFAIK they came with some earphones bundled with my General Mobile GM5 so yeah...  As for the included star tips are too rigid for my preferences and Sony hybrids sound no different so go for Sonys. The memory wire portion (you know, the actual metal wire underneath the sheath) was absent on the ZS3 and it was horrible until I completely cut the thick rubbery memory wire sheath off. The ZS5 does have the proper memory wire and when fitted correctly, they do not hinder me in any way... all in all, they might not be as comfortable as the "memory wire removed" ZS3s with small sony hybrids, but with larger Sony hybrids (these do sit in years differently, therefore the larger tips) and properly formed memory wire, they are pretty good for longer sessions. 

Build Quality: They are built well. no apparent flaws. all the wents are open and there is no drier rattle and loose connections with the wire etc. larger "seam" is a design aspect, rather than finishing defect, so yeah - no qualms. these are not fragile or weak and I'm pretty sure with normal use, they will hold up (Gym is not a normal sue scenario, sweat will find ways into the vents and *** everything up).

Sound: I own several phones, most notable are the KZ ZS3, Sony XB90EX, Seenheiser HD598, hisound BA100. This is my Second KZ and first Hybrid of any sort. It is also the BEST Sounding one out of those that I own. These are the Fastest sounding of them all, meaning that they are VERY detailed and can handle busier music passages without distorting, hiding certain frequencies or instruments and without making the music sound like a big much of noises. even with unforgiving music like Maximum the hormones shimi, or the Tools parabola, everything is present and every little detail is still in the mix. the zs3 for example can't really do that, nor the HD598 can handle those. tips don't really change the sound as much (I didnt really notice any, except for a little more treble with the aforementioned super wide bore tips. a

ZS5 also makes it easy to distinguish the perceived direction from where the certain sounds come from. it's as good as the XB90EX with that. not The "soundstage" is also almost as big, but some sounds can be more upclose with the ZS5 and some are even further, when compared to the XB90EX.

ZS5 has a pretty good sound signature. I'd say they emphasize treble and sub-base, but not overly so. some recordings with poor mastering don't sound as good as others but overall it's not the ZS5s fault imo. base frequencies are pretty controlled and they do not bleed. crappy hip/hop recordings with artificial rumble sound artificially rumbly, while good mastering examples (tech n9ne for example) really shine with energy and control. Mids are there and can be VERY luscious and sweet (miles davis blue in green sounds almost as sweet and lush as on the XB90EX), but can be small and thin at times (again, this is entirely up to the recording). treble is there and it is pretty detailed and sparkly but never grainy or over-stressed and sibilant. I guess this is the biggest plus of the multi driver phones - they can handle stuff easier and with less effort. The whole listening experience is just like that - effortless and doesn't feel busy or crowded. This imo is the biggest pro the ZS5 has. 

These are pretty sensitive to source though. they make the crappy sources sound pretty bad (my phone for example, which I'm pretty sure uses the same DAC that early 8 bit video game consoles used back in the day) and good sources 

Mind you I've listened to these from the Ibasso DX50 on the latest firmware, my Desctop pc sound card (ok sound from these) and my phone (UGH). I'm pretty sure some placebo effect might be at play here but I've tried to not fall for it and I'm also pretty sure these are a steal at 30-ish, moreso at the 18$ deal. anyone who doesn;t have a highend earphone and wants to hear something good, get these.


----------



## naif1985

I'm thinking about buying a new iem's. I couldn't find any Comparison between the ZS5 and the Mee audio M6 pro . I read good things about both of them but I don't know witch Is better


----------



## HungryPanda

I have both and much prefer the ZS5, since I got the ZS5 the M6 Pro has not come out of its case


----------



## Viber (Jul 18, 2017)

.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jul 18, 2017)

Viber said:


> *So every song that sounds bad on the ZS5 is a bad recording/mastering job?*
> 
> Sounds like you are still in that hype period of getting a new IEM (which is cool).



That's not even remotely what he said, haha - Welp, I guess I can eat these words


----------



## aisalen

I think that ZS5 is setting a new standard, with its price to SQ ratio it hard to beat.


----------



## Viber

B9Scrambler said:


> That's not even remotely what he said, haha.



yea, i read his post wrong.
deleted.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Viber said:


> yea, i read his post wrong.
> deleted.



No worries


----------



## nihontoman

Viber said:


> So every song that sounds bad on the ZS5 is a bad recording/mastering job?
> 
> Sounds like you are still in that hype period of getting a new IEM (which is cool).



yep. I'm saying that. all of the songs that sounded BAD on this phone sounded bad on others too, or at least not that good. ZS5 makes the bad recording more apparent, be it lack of soundstage, thinner mids and bloated sub-base lines. It is detailed, that's why good stuff sounds good and bad stuff sounds bad. Bad Sub base sounds horrible on the XB90EX too, while the Sennheiser HD598 just makes it sound almost good, or not as bad as the previous too. 

Pretty sure hype has little to do with it. I still like how the mids are presented on the Xb90EX better (basicaly, something in the frequency response of the xb90ex pleases my ears and make the mids sound better) and don't thinks ZS5 is better than the XB90EX in mids department, but it is better in different aspects. I'm not saying that these earphones are the BEST EVER, but they are the best overall package that I've heard. I have yet to hear a technical deficiency in these and that's what impresses me. Sound signature preferences is one thing, but how these perform is a different subject altogether. Thinner mids on some recordings is generally a minus for me, but then again, it's only on SOME of the recordings and that is what makes me think the ZS5 is not the problem in the chain of sound reproduction.


----------



## nihontoman

nihontoman said:


> yep. I'm saying that. all of the songs that sounded BAD on this phone sounded bad on others too, or at least not that good. ZS5 makes the bad recording more apparent, be it lack of soundstage, thinner mids and bloated sub-base lines. It is detailed, that's why good stuff sounds good and bad stuff sounds bad. Bad Sub base sounds horrible on the XB90EX too, while the Sennheiser HD598 just makes it sound almost good, or not as bad as the previous too.
> 
> Pretty sure hype has little to do with it. I still like how the mids are presented on the Xb90EX better (basicaly, something in the frequency response of the xb90ex pleases my ears and make the mids sound better) and don't thinks ZS5 is better than the XB90EX in mids department, but it is better in different aspects. I'm not saying that these earphones are the BEST EVER, but they are the best overall package that I've heard. I have yet to hear a technical deficiency in these and that's what impresses me. Sound signature preferences is one thing, but how these perform is a different subject altogether. Thinner mids on some recordings is generally a minus for me, but then again, it's only on SOME of the recordings and that is what makes me think the ZS5 is not the problem in the chain of sound reproduction.




Edit: Yes, I was saying that, albeit a bit differently but yeah... Still, hope this addition helps  basically, ZS5 does not do anything wrong, or it does it to an extent that I can't notice. It is a good headphone, especially for the price. Something makes it reproduce crappy stuff really crappy, and I'm inclined to chalk it up to it being quite detailed and revealing. On that note, it also happily reproduces any hiss the audio source has, so take that into consideration


----------



## Viber

nihontoman said:


> Edit: Yes, I was saying that, albeit a bit differently but yeah... Still, hope this addition helps  basically, ZS5 does not do anything wrong, or it does it to an extent that I can't notice. It is a good headphone, especially for the price. Something makes it reproduce ****ty stuff really ****ty, and I'm inclined to chalk it up to it being quite detailed and revealing. On that note, it also happily reproduces any hiss the audio source has, so take that into consideration



mmmm i think headphones should sound good no matter what, i never bought into that whole "unforgiving" headphones are superior thing.

I think metal music is the ultimate test, if a busy metal track sounds detailed enough, yet smooth and enjoyable *and not harsh* then you can say the IEM would do well from a technical standpoint.


----------



## peskypesky (Jul 18, 2017)

Oops. Wrong thread.


----------



## randomnin

Neither ZS5 nor ZST have a crossover, right?


----------



## Vidal

Viber said:


> mmmm i think headphones should sound good no matter what, i never bought into that whole "unforgiving" headphones are superior thing.
> 
> I think metal music is the ultimate test, if a busy metal track sounds detailed enough, yet smooth and enjoyable *and not harsh* then you can say the IEM would do well from a technical standpoint.



There are some seriously crap recordings that an accurate earphone will highlight. Prince - Little Red Corvette  is one that grates with me.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> Neither ZS5 nor ZST have a crossover, right?



Nope, no crossover in either.


----------



## -sandro-

nihontoman said:


> yep. I'm saying that. all of the songs that sounded BAD on this phone sounded bad on others too, or at least not that good. ZS5 makes the bad recording more apparent, be it lack of soundstage, thinner mids and bloated sub-base lines. It is detailed, that's why good stuff sounds good and bad stuff sounds bad. Bad Sub base sounds horrible on the XB90EX too, while the Sennheiser HD598 just makes it sound almost good, or not as bad as the previous too.
> 
> Pretty sure hype has little to do with it. I still like how the mids are presented on the Xb90EX better (basicaly, something in the frequency response of the xb90ex pleases my ears and make the mids sound better) and don't thinks ZS5 is better than the XB90EX in mids department, but it is better in different aspects. I'm not saying that these earphones are the BEST EVER, but they are the best overall package that I've heard. I have yet to hear a technical deficiency in these and that's what impresses me. Sound signature preferences is one thing, but how these perform is a different subject altogether. Thinner mids on some recordings is generally a minus for me, but then again, it's only on SOME of the recordings and that is what makes me think the ZS5 is not the problem in the chain of sound reproduction.


so are mids recessed?


----------



## Vy7478

Hey guys, just got my ZS3 and I'm very impressed by the detail and transparency, quite incredible for the 15 USD I paid. Just one thing, when I used it with the stock cable the mid-bass was very boomy and dominant, but when I changed to the silver replacement cable, the bass calmed down and is now much closer to neutral (the midrange and treble did not seem to change an awful lot). Now it sounds even better IMO. Anyone else experienced this?


----------



## Slater

Vy7478 said:


> Hey guys, just got my ZS3 and I'm very impressed by the detail and transparency, quite incredible for the 15 USD I paid. Just one thing, when I used it with the stock cable the mid-bass was very boomy and dominant, but when I changed to the silver replacement cable, the bass calmed down and is now much closer to neutral (the midrange and treble did not seem to change an awful lot). Now it sounds even better IMO. Anyone else experienced this?



I've never used anything but the silver cable on the ZS3, but you can get rid of the boominess and make some other improvements by doing the foam mod:

http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs3-slater-mod/


----------



## Vy7478

slaterlovesspam said:


> I've never used anything but the silver cable on the ZS3, but you can get rid of the boominess and make some other improvements by doing the foam mod:
> 
> http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs3-slater-mod/



Thanks, but I'm pretty satisfied with the sound now  wondering if I should now get the ZST, heard some great (and bad) things about them.


----------



## Slater

Vy7478 said:


> Thanks, but I'm pretty satisfied with the sound now  wondering if I should now get the ZST, heard some great (and bad) things about them.



Only downside to the ZST is that the treble can be a little piercing at times. But there is a fix to tame the highs for those overly sensitive to them. Other than that, they are great IEMs (and definitely superior to the ZS3).


----------



## Skullophile

DareTo said:


> So what have people's experiences been with third-party tips on the ZS5? My new pair are my first 'good' IEMs and I want good tips to go with them. I'm wary of Comply foam after trying them several years ago and having them start falling apart (leaving bits of foam in my ear) within a week.
> 
> Symbio tips by MandarinEs seem to be getting positive reviews. Is anyone using them with the ZS5. If so, did you get normal or wide bore, and what's your experience been?
> 
> Other possibilities: JVC Spiral Dots, Spinfits, others?


Why not just go through your box of tips and find the right ones.


----------



## Slater

Skullophile said:


> Why not just go through your box of tips and find the right ones.



Nice tip collection! I have 2 bins similar to that myself - 1 with silicone and the other with foams.

Definitely ready for the zombie apocalypse, when IEM eartips will be in short supply. I plan on using them for bartering LOL


----------



## Viber (Jul 19, 2017)

Vy7478 said:


> Hey guys, just got my ZS3 and I'm very impressed by the detail and transparency, quite incredible for the 15 USD I paid. Just one thing, when I used it with the stock cable the mid-bass was very boomy and dominant, but when I changed to the silver replacement cable, the bass calmed down and is now much closer to neutral (the midrange and treble did not seem to change an awful lot). Now it sounds even better IMO. Anyone else experienced this?



Why did u pay 15$ ?  They cost 8$ on GearBest if you want another pair.

And about the sound - The ZS3 change their sound when connected to different sources.


----------



## nihontoman

-sandro- said:


> so are mids recessed?


Usually no. but there are some songs where the vocals sound distant and kinda wrong. pretty sure it's the recording in most cases, or these have a very specific frequency curve


----------



## Vy7478

Viber said:


> Why did u pay 15$ ?  They cost 8$ on GearBest if you want another pair.
> 
> And about the sound - The ZS3 change their sound when connected to different sources.



Haha the two day shipping was worth it


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Nice tip collection! I have 2 bins similar to that myself - 1 with silicone and the other with foams.
> 
> Definitely ready for the zombie apocalypse, when IEM eartips will be in short supply. I plan on using them for bartering LOL


----------



## Viber

Vy7478 said:


> Haha the two day shipping was worth it



:-D
i always say that the real payment with Chi-Fi is with time and not money.


----------



## waylo

Have the ZST's and was wondering what the difference between these cables is and which one is better.

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZST-Upgra...00474630&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=zst+cable&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-ZST-Upgra...00474630&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=zst+cable&th=1


----------



## Podster

Not really sure as my gold's just came in (nice packaging by the way), I'll have to swap them out for my stock on my Colorfuls since I'm running the silver on the Carbon's. Maybe I can give some feedback soon but work (the one that feeds my family) seems to always be getting in the way






Some of the Pods fave KZ's Just realized I did change my Colorfuls to a silver plate as well!!!


----------



## peskypesky (Jul 19, 2017)

Vy7478 said:


> Haha the two day shipping was worth it


indeed. I ordered my ZS5s from Gearbest, and even thought the price was great, the incredibly long shipping time is kind of a drag. Still haven't received them and it's been about three weeks. They're being shipped by Azerbaijan Air Mail for some reason.


----------



## snip3r77

peskypesky said:


> indeed. I ordered my ZS5s from Gearbest, and even thought the price was great, the incredibly long shipping time is kind of a drag. Still haven't received them and it's been about three weeks. They're being shipped by Azerbaijan Air Mail for some reason.



you need 4 to 6 weeks


----------



## groucho69

snip3r77 said:


> you need 4 to 6 weeks



If you always think it will be 8 weeks and it arrives sooner then it will always be a pleasant experince.


----------



## mono-type (Jul 19, 2017)

I got my KZ ZS3 two weeks ago. I bought it along with the SPC cable for it. While I like the sound, the isolation, and the fit of this IEM, listening to these on two weeks, I realized that the bass is quite muddy; the sound isn't quite as detailed as I expected even with the SPC cable, until I saw this great tip posted by @Dark Helmet 2 months ago while backreading in this thread:



			
				Dark Helmet said:
			
		

> Just got the ZS3 and after some time with it I felt the medium tips (The size I typically use) made the ZS3 sound a tad bloated.  After reading a through review on Amazon, I tried the small tips as recommended by the author and it totally tamed the bass, gave it more mid punch and balance overall.  I also bought the upgrade cable for it.  What a fantastic sounding IEM.  The comfort and fit are awesome as well.



I followed this, and indeed it's super effective! The bass mellowed down, and the details finally stand out. Wow. I can say I'm finally satisfied with the sound after replacing the medium-sized tips (like Dark Helmet, I usually use the same size) with the small ones.

Also, I have a question regarding ZS5. If I enjoy the sound of ZS3, will I enjoy ZS5 more? I'm planning to buy one sometime. Thanks in advance!


----------



## loomisjohnson

mono-type said:


> I got my KZ ZS3 two weeks ago. I bought it along with the SPC cable for it. While I like the sound, the isolation, and the fit of this IEM, listening to these on two weeks, I realized that the bass is quite muddy; the sound isn't quite as detailed as I expected even with the SPC cable, until I saw this great tip posted by @Dark Helmet 2 months ago while backreading in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the consensus, with which i agree, is that the zs5 improves on the zs3 in all respects other than a somewhat less punchy bass--the zs5 has significantly more detail/high end extension, images better. than said, you won't necessarily like it more--b9scrambler, for one, prefers the zs3, as i believe he is more treble sensitive


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> the consensus, with which i agree, is that the zs5 improves on the zs3 in all respects other than a somewhat less punchy bass--the zs5 has significantly more detail/high end extension, images better. than said, you won't necessarily like it more--*b9scrambler, for one, prefers the zs3, as i believe he is more treble sensitive*



I prefer the ZS3, but not because I'm treble sensitive (quite the opposite actually, haha). I just like it's presentation more. The ZS5 has a very "ED series" tune to it, and since I have lots of ED series KZs it's something I've heard a lot of over the years. The ZS5 doesn't draw me in the same way the ZS3 does as a result. Purely a preference thing as I think the ZS5 is the superior product on a technical level.


----------



## Vidal

loomisjohnson said:


> treble sensitive



I think we should coin the phase 'Treble Snowflake'


----------



## B9Scrambler

Vidal said:


> I think we should coin the phase 'Treble Snowflake'



How about Treble Trumpflake?


----------



## Podster (Jul 19, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> How about Treble Trumpflake?



Automatic FOUL for using the word Trump Sure wish my ZS5's would hurry up and get here

Matter a fact here's my Trumps and they are almost rated by me as high as the country is rating The Trump right now


----------



## Vidal

@Podster ipisdi dolphins?


----------



## JaeYoon

Podster said:


> Automatic FOUL for using the word Trump Sure wish my ZS5's would hurry up and get here
> 
> Matter a fact here's my Trumps and they are almost rated by me as high as the country is rating The Trump right now


dead XD

36% Approval rating is pretty low!


----------



## Podster

Vidal said:


> @Podster ipisdi dolphins?



Yep, sorry if I have offended but these were the worst iem I've ever heard! YMMV


----------



## Vidal

Podster said:


> Yep, sorry if I have offended but these were the worst iem I've ever heard! YMMV



Never heard them, and given your feedback not likely to either


----------



## nihontoman

loomisjohnson said:


> the consensus, with which i agree, is that the zs5 improves on the zs3 in all respects other than a somewhat less punchy bass--the zs5 has significantly more detail/high end extension, images better. than said, you won't necessarily like it more--b9scrambler, for one, prefers the zs3, as i believe he is more treble sensitive


I have both and the overdone base boom that can be present in ZS3 and sometimes make the whole song drown with boomines (epidemic - poisonous love comes as a great example of this) is not a problem with the ZS5. Moreover, ZS5 has WAY more detail, sounds way more open (because of more treble air) and generally is much more pleasing to my ears. I like how it does base and sub base frequencies too - much more controlled and less overpowering than on ZS3.


----------



## macky112

slaterlovesspam said:


> ED9 (king of the bashead IEMs), ZN1 mini, ED "Special Edition" (aka KZ EDSE), ZS1 (1st gen with brass ring not version with mesh screen), and ED3 are the most basshead-oriented IEMs in my collection (in that order). You can also do the closed port mod on the ATE, resulting in a very warm signature. The ATE-S is the bassiest out of the ATE revisions too (Translucent brown w/black memory wires and red plastic cable "reliefs").
> 
> Most importanty, using KZ Starline tips significantly increases the bass (and fit/comfort) on all in the list, as well as other non-KZ bassy IEMs such as Rock Zircon and (to a lesser degree) MEMT X5.
> 
> Obviously, amping helps bring out the bass on these too.


is there any particular reason for the starline tips to enhance the bass?  because of its shape?  because of it's length?  I am very curious if I should buya few sets  from Aliexpress cuz i love me some bass


----------



## actorlife (Jul 19, 2017)

macky112 said:


> is there any particular reason for the starline tips to enhance the bass?  because of its shape?  because of it's length?  I am very curious if I should buya few sets  from Aliexpress cuz i love me some bass


I believe I read in this thread somewhere that the starlines are included with the zs5. As I see you own them in your sig.


----------



## Griffith

Just a heads up for anyone interested but Gearbest.com has a sale on right now on Earphones: http://www.gearbest.com/promotion-earbuds-hot-sale-special-940.html

If you don't know which ones to pick I recommend out of the ones I own or have tried the KZ ZS3 (which is heavily discounted), the KZ ATE and the KZ ZST (though I wouldn't recommend these if you are sensitive to high frequencies).

If you are interested in dipping a different brand of earphones in your ears and you like the KZ ATE I recommend you try out the Somic V4 which is also discounted although it isn't featured.


----------



## Vy7478

Is there a significant change in sound in the ZS5 when I use the silver cable compared to the stock?


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> is there any particular reason for the starline tips to enhance the bass?  because of its shape?  because of it's length?  I am very curious if I should buya few sets  from Aliexpress cuz i love me some bass



They have a very small bore, and the more pointed shape allows a deeper insertion.

They were specifically designed for bass enhancement by KZ:


----------



## firgoe (Jul 20, 2017)

Deleted


----------



## young59

Anyone tried the Bluetooth module by kz 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=83d60d22-3676-43b4-8dc3-323142773472

How is the quality and will they work with ZS3 the memory wire of my stock cable broke   .


----------



## Viber

nihontoman said:


> I have both and the overdone base boom that can be present in ZS3 and sometimes make the whole song drown with boomines (epidemic - poisonous love comes as a great example of this) is not a problem with the ZS5.



If your ZS3 makes music "drown with boomines" then it's because of your source.  They are more source sensitive than you think.


----------



## nihontoman

Viber said:


> If your ZS3 makes music "drown with boomines" then it's because of your source.  They are more source sensitive than you think.



yes but while ZS3 can be boomy on certain songs (the one I mentioned above for example), ZS5 does not make that song boomy, and on the contrary opens it up somewhat. every source I tried with ZS3 made that song kinda boomy, while even on my crappy phone the ZS5 sound well, not as boomy when playing the aforementioned song. This is more along the lines of elevated mid-base frequency response together with possibly that songs poor-ish mastering (don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if along the way they crancked that "bass" a bit higher  ).  The zs5 doesn't have an apparent mid-base "hump". Mind you, my ZS3 is free of defects like the crushed sound pipe thingy...


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Has anyone even ordered from GearBest had their ZS5's yet?

Ordered 20th of June, and according to the "tracking" it arrived in the UK over two weeks ago, but still hasn't shown up yet!


----------



## themindfreak (Jul 20, 2017)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Has anyone even ordered from GearBest had their ZS5's yet?
> 
> Ordered 20th of June, and according to the "tracking" it arrived in the UK over two weeks ago, but still hasn't shown up yet!


Dont worry too much. I actually ordered a pair of KZ Atr from Gearbest and shipping took 2 and a half months to come. I thought they were lost in the shipment but apparently I was wrong. I even contacted Gearbest because they guaranteed a 2 month delivery time to your country and apparently they are sending me another pair for free LOL. I was too late in cancelling their free shipment for me so yay :3


----------



## toddy0191 (Jul 20, 2017)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Has anyone even ordered from GearBest had their ZS5's yet?
> 
> Ordered 20th of June, and according to the "tracking" it arrived in the UK over two weeks ago, but still hasn't shown up yet!



Ordered mine 1st of July and they arrived on the 14th to the UK.

Get @George-gearbest  to check it out for you.


----------



## Sylmar

CardigdanWalk said:


> Has anyone even ordered from GearBest had their ZS5's yet?
> 
> Ordered 20th of June, and according to the "tracking" it arrived in the UK over two weeks ago, but still hasn't shown up yet!



I didn't order the ZS5 at Gearbest but I've had some orders there. I wouldn't worry to much. I've always received my items, even if  it took a while.


----------



## groucho69

I've found Gearbest to be faster to Canada than AE. At least last few times that I've ordered.


----------



## -sandro-

B9Scrambler said:


> I prefer the ZS3, but not because I'm treble sensitive (quite the opposite actually, haha). I just like it's presentation more. The ZS5 has a very "ED series" tune to it, and since I have lots of ED series KZs it's something I've heard a lot of over the years. The ZS5 doesn't draw me in the same way the ZS3 does as a result. Purely a preference thing as I think the ZS5 is the superior product on a technical level.



Could you describe the difference between the two for you?

Anyway so every day the ZS5 is $9.99 for the first 10 orders? Seems impossible to get...


----------



## B9Scrambler

-sandro- said:


> Could you describe the difference between the two for you?
> 
> Anyway so every day the ZS5 is $9.99 for the first 10 orders? Seems impossible to get...



https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/reviews#review-18861

It's in there.


----------



## posnera

-sandro- said:


> Could you describe the difference between the two for you?
> 
> Anyway so every day the ZS5 is $9.99 for the first 10 orders? Seems impossible to get...



Yeah, but that's 4AM for me.  I'd buy one for $10 without thinking, but I'm not waking up that early to try!


----------



## -sandro-

Tha ATE is not that discounted, I paid less last week.


----------



## macky112

I've searched this thread but found opposite opinions on whether ED9 with bass port has better bass than ZS3?

I want to love the ZS3, but somehow I cannot find a good fit/seal with ZS3 with my right ear.  ZST and ZS5 fit and seal great.


----------



## Adide

macky112 said:


> I want to love the ZS3, but somehow I cannot find a good fit/seal with ZS3 with my right ear. ZST and ZS5 fit and seal great.


Yeah, Seal is great, kiss from a rose and all that. But it's shark week so your right ear has reason to be wrong.
Pardon.


----------



## -sandro-

Is it possible the zs5 with dual drivers are rated like the einsear t2 which seem to use the typical dynamic driver?


----------



## daid1

posnera said:


> Yeah, but that's 4AM for me.  I'd buy one for $10 without thinking, but I'm not waking up that early to try!



where where whereee


----------



## Viber

Relax guys, i checked for the last 2 days at the specified time and the ZS5 never drops to 10$.
If anything, the price actually resets to 22$ at that time because the timer on their flash deal is not renewed until 9:10 utc or something like that.


----------



## rendyG

Viber said:


> Relax guys, i checked for the last 2 days at the specified time and the ZS5 never drops to 10$.
> If anything, the price actually resets to 22$ at that time because the timer on their flash deal is not renewed until 9:10 utc or something like that.


Same here, would like to know the trick to get them for advertised 9.99 :/


----------



## Viber

Radek Jandl said:


> Same here, would like to know the trick to get them for advertised 9.99 :/



There's no trick, i even watched the "number of pieces left", they didn't even sell 6 pieces from 7:55 UTC to 10:00 UTC.  So you didn't miss the sale window.  There was no sale and there couldn't be a sale because the sale resets to 22$ at the time of the sale.

Got that?


----------



## rendyG (Jul 21, 2017)

Viber said:


> There's no trick, i even watched the "number of pieces left", they didn't even sell 6 pieces from 7:55 UTC to 10:00 UTC.  So you didn't miss the sale window.  There was no sale and there couldn't be a sale because the sale resets to 22$ at the time of the sale.
> 
> Got that?



Yeah, I´ve experienced the same, but anyway, according to the ad, the price should be $9.99, somehow..
http://www.gearbest.com/promotion-earbuds-hot-sale-special-940.html?lkid=10690141 (for others who dont know what are we talking about)


----------



## Viber

Radek Jandl said:


> Yeah, I´ve experienced the same, but anyway, according to the ad, the price should be $9.99, somehow..
> http://www.gearbest.com/promotion-earbuds-hot-sale-special-940.html?lkid=10690141 (for others who dont know what are we talking about)



Maybe they meant 21:00 UTC lol


----------



## ayao

The deal exists; not sure why the order page is showing CST, but that was 9AM UTC or 7PM AEST.


----------



## Hente

I've got a pair of ZS3s that I want to replace the tips of. 
Could someone recommend me the best tri-flange tips that I could buy?


----------



## Viber

ayao said:


> The deal exists; not sure why the order page is showing CST, but that was 9AM UTC or 7PM AEST.



So you just refreshed the product page and it appeared @ 10$ ?


----------



## Francisk (Jul 21, 2017)

Just received both my KZ ZST and ZS5 Bluetooth cables and I must say I'm pretty impressed with both of them for the price of $7.65 each from Ali Express. I received the newer version with Bluetooth 4.2 and APTX support. I haven't tested the full battery life yet but I'm happy with the sound quality at this price. I hope KZ continue to innovate on their products. They're definitely kicking some ass now 

I also purchased the KZ gold cable but didn't notice any change in sound quality from the stock nor silver cable. Save your money and use the stock cable and buy the KZ Bluetooth cables instead.


----------



## zato23

Francisk said:


> Just received both my KZ ZST and ZS5 Bluetooth cables and I must say I'm pretty impressed with both of them for the price of $7.65 each from Ali Express. I received the newer version with Bluetooth 4.2 and APTX support. I haven't tested the full battery life yet but I'm happy with the sound quality at this price. I hope KZ continue to innovate on their products. They're definitely kicking some ass now
> 
> I also purchased the KZ gold cable but didn't notice any change in sound quality from the stock nor silver cable. Save your money and use the stock cable and buy the KZ Bluetooth cables instead.



Are you sure about aptx?
With wich device you checked it?
I have the one that released first and had issues with battery and bad connection now i am thinking to buy the new one but only if support aptx .


----------



## Francisk (Jul 21, 2017)

zato23 said:


> Are you sure about aptx?
> With wich device you checked it?
> I have the one that released first and had issues with battery and bad connection now i am thinking to buy the new one but only if support aptx .


I connect them to my Samsung S7 Edge (Exynos version) and Cayin N3. Here's the photo of the specs printed on the manual.


----------



## khighly (Jul 21, 2017)

Where can I get the newer bluetooth cable? I just ordered one and the box says 4.1. Manual has APTX and BT 4.2.


----------



## Slater (Jul 21, 2017)

khighly said:


> Where can I get the newer bluetooth cable? I just ordered one and the box says 4.1. Is there a chance it's still the new one, they just didn't update the box? How would I know?



updated

Not all the boxes say 4.2 on the outside. Some say 4.1 on the outside and 4.2 on the included instruction sheet.

The best way to tell is the battery life (~4 hours).


----------



## Francisk (Jul 23, 2017)

khighly said:


> Where can I get the newer bluetooth cable? I just ordered one and the box says 4.1. Is there a chance it's still the new one, they just didn't update the box? How would I know?


Mine came with the box and manual stating Bluetooth 4.2. Here's the photo of the box. You can get them at Ali Express NiceHCK: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32817966863.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.laN25e


----------



## Slater

Francisk said:


> I connect them to my Samasung S7 Edge (Exynos version) and Cayin N3. Here's the photo of the specs printed on the manual.



Just so you're aware, since aptX stuff is backwards compatible with the standard bluetooth protocol, it's not always guaranteed that 2 aptX devices will actually connect to one another via aptX. I have read posts on this HF where aptX stuff connects as Bluetooth 4.x. The person that ran into this had some system utility or something that displayed what version of Bluetooth was actually being connected. He had to somehow force it from regular Bluetooth to aptX in the utility.

I'll see if I can find the post.


----------



## khighly

Manual says APTX and BT 4.2. Sound quality is OK, but they distort very badly on the ZS5's. Latency is fairly high.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Manual says APTX and BT 4.2. Sound quality is OK, but they distort very badly on the ZS5's. Latency is fairly high.



If you have the ZS3, try them on that LOL.


----------



## IamMe90

I purchased a silver cable for the ZS5 and I have to say, it sounds like total crap. I'm not sure I got a faulty product or something? I tried every possible combination of plugging in the connectors to rule out a polarity issue. Then I did a side-by-side comparison with the stock cable with 5 different songs. The mid were _way_ recessed compared to the stock cable, the bass was more emphasized but in a bad way (ie clipping) and it just generally sounded awful. Hm. Oh well, they sound awesome with the stock cable at least.


----------



## Skullophile

I got some ZS3's yesterday and had a good listen. They go balls to wall with good sound for their price for sure. They sound to me like a warm dynamic covering the whole FR and also a dry/grainy SR BA driver (like the one in the PL50) covering the whole FR as well. It creates a new genre ... Warm and dry. This dryness I hear is mainly in the mids. I am enjoying them and especially how they sound very different to anything ive heard before.


----------



## Slater

Skullophile said:


> I got some ZS3's yesterday and had a good listen. They go balls to wall with good sound for their price for sure. They sound to me like a warm dynamic covering the whole FR and also a dry/grainy SR BA driver (like the one in the PL50) covering the whole FR as well. It creates a new genre ... Warm and dry. This dryness I hear is mainly in the mids. I am enjoying them and especially how they sound very different to anything ive heard before.



Glad you finally picked some up. I love love love the ZS3. It's destined to be a classic KZ for sure. I removed the giant Right and Left writing on mine though. Looks stealth now


----------



## VinceHill24

KZ will have some new stuff by end of the month, said to be a dual dynamic driver. No idea how it looks like yet no pics were disclosed nor any specs. They're naming it KZ ZSE, another one in the ZS family. Let's wait and see


----------



## snip3r77

VinceHill24 said:


> KZ will have some new stuff by end of the month, said to be a dual dynamic driver. No idea how it looks like yet no pics were disclosed nor any specs. They're naming it KZ ZSE, another one in the ZS family. Let's wait and see


Need more info on ZXR asap


----------



## Viber

VinceHill24 said:


> KZ will have some new stuff by end of the month, said to be a dual dynamic driver. No idea how it looks like yet no pics were disclosed nor any specs. They're naming it KZ ZSE, another one in the ZS family. Let's wait and see



Sounds like it's the successor to *ZS2 *and not ZS3 or ZST.
Much hype.


----------



## Adide

One more vote for ZS3 here. Listening with Samsung S5 / Tidal / AQ Dragon Black. Done all mods suggested arround: scc cable, grid and foam removed from nosle, smaller stock tips. Not sure why people call them dark and bassy. Seems balanced to me with a tad bigger bass, slightly L shaped lets say. Using them on transportation exclusively and the potent noise attenuation shape helps alot. Not going to jump to ZS5 cause isolation is surely lower so overall sound will clearly suffer for me.


----------



## mono-type

Adide said:


> One more vote for ZS3 here. Listening with Samsung S5 / Tidal / AQ Dragon Black. Done all mods suggested arround: scc cable, grid and foam removed from nosle, smaller stock tips. Not sure why people call them dark and bassy. Seems balanced to me with a tad bigger bass, slightly L shaped lets say. Using them on transportation exclusively and the potent noise attenuation shape helps alot. Not going to jump to ZS5 cause isolation is surely lower so overall sound will clearly suffer for me.


One more vote for ZS3 from me, too. I haven't modded my ZS3 since I fear that I might wreck them and/or change the sound signature permanently, but I'm satisfied with replacing the default medium tips to the small ones, as suggested by a fellow Head-Fier in this thread. With the small tips, the imaging improved. The bass became much more balanced, and the details finally stood out and shine, something that I didn't hear with the ZS3 while with the medium stock tips.


----------



## Slater

VinceHill24 said:


> KZ will have some new stuff by end of the month, said to be a dual dynamic driver. No idea how it looks like yet no pics were disclosed nor any specs. They're naming it KZ ZSE, another one in the ZS family. Let's wait and see



Hopefully it's in the ZS3 shell!


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hopefully it's in the ZS3 shell!



That would be pretty cool  Mind you, I would be perfectly okay with them returning to the ZS1 shell or something similar; make the nozzle a bit longer for example.


----------



## ChickenButcher

I saw on some fb page that the new dual driver is called KZ ZSE.. don't know the validity of it though.

link here: https://www.facebook.com/showtime.h...369423234461/1603941046343957/?type=3&theater


----------



## B9Scrambler

ChickenButcher said:


> I saw on some fb page that the new dual driver is called KZ ZSE.. don't know the validity of it though.
> 
> link here: https://www.facebook.com/showtime.h...369423234461/1603941046343957/?type=3&theater



Sweet! Design certainly is reminiscent of the ZS1, but looking to be more ergonomic if that render is accurate. My wallet is ready.


----------



## Slater (Jul 22, 2017)

Never mind.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Never mind.


----------



## Francisk

Btw is the ZS3 a hybrid IEM or is it a single dynamic driver IEM? It's going for $7.99 a pair at GearBest's flash sale: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html

I just ordered a pair


----------



## khighly (Jul 22, 2017)

ZS5 Bluetooth Cable lasts for about 3 hours on 65% battery (distorts with anything higher, doesn't have the power to drive). Charging takes longer than I would imagine. Poorly shielded if you live in an area with a lot of RF (I live near a 50KW radio station), or live in an apartment (I have 200+ apartments competing for Bluetooth and WiFi). Works fine on my phone but when I'm in an area with a lot of RF or WiFi, it will skip. I think some of this may be due to the Pixel XL knowingly having poor bluetooth connectivity.

Audio quality is much better than I expected. Not much to complain about. It's Bluetooth.

Latency and range are much better on my Laptop. I can walk anywhere in my apartment and have no issues with range. Latency on my phone sometimes is a second or two out of sync, but youtube will try to fix it often. Latency on my laptop is probably 50-100ms and you barely notice it when people are talking.

Not bad for $10 same day shipping on Amazon.


----------



## Slater (Jul 22, 2017)

Francisk said:


> Btw is the ZS3 a hybrid IEM or is it a single dynamic driver IEM? It's going for $7.99 a pair at GearBest's flash sale: http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html
> 
> I just ordered a pair



Single 8mm driver.

And in case anyone is interested, the driver holder built into the shell is large enough to install a 9mm driver (ie 9mm is what the shell was designed for; KZ just went with an 8mm driver and holds it in place using an extra bit of glue). Not that the stock driver is all that bad, but there have been people in the past that have expressed an interest in repurposing the shell so I'd though I would post the info.


----------



## Slater (Jul 22, 2017)

Hey, now that I have the ZS5 I decided to open them up and take a peak inside.

I know we've been making fun of the ZS5 for having a crapload of glue inside, but now that I've seen it for myself I believe this isn't just glue globbed in to hold everything in but rather for driver isolation.

Multi-BA drivers are often prone to unwanted harmonic noise (ringing) caused by the BA drivers not being isolated from one another. Coatings (such as silicone) are applied on the inside of the shells to isolate the drivers and prevent unwanted noise. This is not something generally seen on lower-end earphones.

It's really nice that KZ went this extra step on the ZS5, and really says a lot about the value they provide all of us. They could have just as easily omitted this step and saved a bit of time and money (which all adds up over a large volume production run or any product).

Sure, they have their share of QC issues, but everyone does. The random QC issue that occurs here and there can easily be forgiven in my eyes when on the other hand they are giving us such well designed and great sounding products for their price. I can honestly say that ChiFi would be in a much worse off place if KZ never existed.

The following photo isn't mine, but illustrates what I'm referring to for those interested:


----------



## Francisk

khighly said:


> ZS5 Bluetooth Cable lasts for about 3 hours on 65% battery (distorts with anything higher, doesn't have the power to drive). Charging takes longer than I would imagine. Poorly shielded if you live in an area with a lot of RF (I live near a 50KW radio station), or live in an apartment (I have 200+ apartments competing for Bluetooth and WiFi). Works fine on my phone but when I'm in an area with a lot of RF or WiFi, it will skip. I think some of this may be due to the Pixel XL knowingly having poor bluetooth connectivity.
> 
> Audio quality is much better than I expected. Not much to complain about. It's Bluetooth.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you regarding the KZ Bluetooth cables, they're not perfect but at the asking price of $7.65, they surprised me. I have not experienced any skipping so far on mine though. My only complaint is the latency when watching videos.


----------



## Slater

Francisk said:


> I totally agree with you regarding the KZ Bluetooth cables, they're not perfect but at the asking price of $7.65, they surprised me. I have not experienced any skipping so far on mine though. My only complaint is the latency when watching videos.



Agreed about the poorly shielded comment made by khighly. Mine skip near cell phone towers, Wifi, garage door opener, when using the car remote, etc. I'm thinking of adding my own shielding by wrapping the little control box in a few strips of foil tape.


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> Agreed about the poorly shielded comment made by khighly. Mine skip near cell phone towers, Wifi, garage door opener, when using the car remote, etc. I'm thinking of adding my own shielding by wrapping the little control box in a few strips of foil tape.



Wrapping the remote really works?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Against some RF probably, but I'd be worried about bluetooth range after doing such a thing lol.


----------



## Sylmar

Adide said:


> One more vote for ZS3 here. Listening with Samsung S5 / Tidal / AQ Dragon Black. Done all mods suggested arround: scc cable, grid and foam removed from nosle, smaller stock tips. Not sure why people call them dark and bassy. Seems balanced to me with a tad bigger bass, slightly L shaped lets say. Using them on transportation exclusively and the potent noise attenuation shape helps alot. Not going to jump to ZS5 cause isolation is surely lower so overall sound will clearly suffer for me.



Got the ZS3 myself, did the Slater mod and I'm pleasantly surprised. What is a SCC cable by the way?


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Wrapping the remote really works?



Don't know, haven't tried yet.


----------



## Adide

Silver coated copper after-market cable, some call it just silver cable. Look it up on AE or Ama. Make sure you get zs3 one and not zst which is angled.
It supposed to have lower impedance than stock cable, however I'm not getting huge improvements with it alone but all in all these mods together sum up for a nice tune up.


----------



## Sylmar

Adide said:


> Silver coated copper after-market cable, some call it just silver cable. Look it up on AE or Ama. Make sure you get zs3 one and not zst which is angled.
> It supposed to have lower impedance than stock cable, however I'm not getting huge improvements with it alone but all in all these mods together sum up for a nice tune up.


Thanks I'll have a look on Ali.


----------



## Ynot1

Viber said:


> Wrapping the remote really works?



I'm no rocket scientist but how can you separate bluetooth wire or antenna from the noise doing that?

Is there something you know about like the antenna is also the cable?

Maybe the shielding is for the chip and not the antenna.


----------



## groucho69

Ynot1 said:


> I'm no rocket scientist but how can you separate bluetooth wire or antenna from the noise doing that?
> 
> Is there something you know about like the antenna is also the cable?
> 
> Maybe the shielding is for the chip and not the antenna.



Antennas are a truly black art. I worked with a guy how was an absolute savant. He could take anyones design and quickly double the range, even in mines through rock. Absolute genius. He also regularly lost his car in parking lots. A real life Sheldon.


----------



## khighly

Charged the Bluetooth cable overnight and they were full in the morning.Took it to work and plugged it back in, has been charging for another 30 minutes now. I wonder if KZ has a legitimate charging circuit or if it's just timed. We'll see what my battery life is like after this 2nd charge as well.


----------



## Detectit

My vote goes to the ZS5. Since I have them I haven't looked back on the ZS3. 

Okay once to get the mods done. But still.... To much bass. 

I really like the clear and crisp highs on the ZS5 and still have the bass punch. Much cleaner.


----------



## khighly

groucho69 said:


> Antennas are a truly black art. I worked with a guy how was an absolute savant. He could take anyones design and quickly double the range, even in mines through rock. Absolute genius. He also regularly lost his car in parking lots. A real life Sheldon.



I'll probably getting another one of these Bluetooth cables and I'll likely tear one apart to see if I can improve the antennas since I am well versed in that 'black art'


----------



## mono-type (Jul 23, 2017)

Just tried @slaterlovesspam's mod for ZS3 right now. The mod was surprisingly effortless; I was quite nervous that I might mess up my ZS3. It turns out that the red screen and the black foam could be removed/returned effortlessly. What you should worry more is the red screen and black foam would get lost (obviously, they are so damn tiny). The black foam, in my case, isn't in the red tube for some reason. Like in slater's case, the foam on my ZS3 is on the nozzle. Combining this mod with the small stock tips (as suggested by @Dark Helmet) and the SPC cable, I must say the sound signature becomes more satisfactory than the stock configuration. Although I think I'll still retain the red screen for sanitary purposes.


----------



## khighly

So I'm actually a bit concerned with this Bluetooth cable. No matter how many times I plug it in, it continues to charge, eventually changing the light to blue indicating it's done charging. If you plug it in after that, it will charge for another 45 minutes. May be a small fire hazard, keep an eye on them!


----------



## vladstef

khighly said:


> So I'm actually a bit concerned with this Bluetooth cable. No matter how many times I plug it in, it continues to charge, eventually changing the light to blue indicating it's done charging. If you plug it in after that, it will charge for another 45 minutes. May be a small fire hazard, keep an eye on them!


That's why I would never recommend any untested/cheap bluetooth device, even extremely pricey ones have a tendency to be crappy big times. So so many things that could go wrong, you just don't need that nuisance in life. Maybe things will change, but as of now, I avoid bluetooth in wide circles, especially if we are talking about KZ. I agree that ZS5 is a masterpiece of an IEM at their respected price point, but first you have to be somewhat lucky to receive a proper pair (although there aren't as many issues as it was first suspected, just a few units with polarity issues that are fixable).


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> Just tried @slaterlovesspam's mod for ZS3 right now. The mod was surprisingly effortless; I was quite nervous that I might mess up my ZS3. It turns out that the red screen and the black foam could be removed/returned effortlessly. What you should worry more is the red screen and black foam would get lost (obviously, they are so damn tiny). The black foam, in my case, isn't in the red tube for some reason. Like in slater's case, the foam on my ZS3 is on the nozzle. Combining this mod with the small stock tips (as suggested by @Dark Helmet) and the SPC cable, I must say the sound signature becomes more satisfactory than the stock configuration. Although I think I'll still retain the red screen for sanitary purposes.



Nice man, glad to hear.

The foam isn't actually supposed to be in the nozzle either. When you find it floating around in the nozzle area, that means it fell out of the colored tube (where it is intended to go).

That's why I recommended that everyone at least check their ZS3 even if they have no intention of removing the foam, because it's very possible that the foam is just floating around in the nozzle not doing its job.


----------



## ricemanhk

khighly said:


> So I'm actually a bit concerned with this Bluetooth cable. No matter how many times I plug it in, it continues to charge, eventually changing the light to blue indicating it's done charging. If you plug it in after that, it will charge for another 45 minutes. May be a small fire hazard, keep an eye on them!



Yeah I wouldn't keep charging them to full like that...you never know.  Does anyone have a USB voltage/current meter to check how much current it's pulling when charging?  Maybe it's just super slow trickle charging after it gets over 80%.

BTW I have no issues with interference with mine and I live in Hong Kong...I pair it with my xiaomi mi5 phone.  That said, range is not the best if there's no line of sight, but I guess you're meant to keep your phone near you when using BT headphones so it's ok.
Both my box and manual says 4.2 and I get at least 2h battery life (haven't done the full 100% to 0 test yet) so I should have the newer version.  And indeed sound quality is better than I expected for BT.  With the ZST it beats the pants off of all my other BT headphones haha
I might get the ZS3/ZS5 one later if I upgrade to a phone with no headphone jack (what are the OEMs thinking...)


----------



## mono-type

slaterlovesspam said:


> The foam isn't actually supposed to be in the nozzle either. When you find it floating around in the nozzle area, that means it fell out of the colored tube (where it is intended to go).


Yes, I saw the black foams floating around the nozzle area, and in fact, when I removed the red screen thingies, the black foam came off with them, as in the black foam stuck on the adhesive of the red screen.


----------



## Viber (Jul 24, 2017)

hmmmmmmmm


----------



## Sylmar

Viber said:


> hmmmmmmmm



They seen really small. Really curious about the sound. 

Soon.


----------



## daid1

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...32822365600.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.iGZjpG

it seems already on sale


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Alright, who's gonna be the guinea pig?


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

"Independent bass frequency Dynamic driver to enhance general music *administrative levels*".

Such wow. Much awesome.


----------



## Detectit

SomeTechNoob said:


> Alright, who's gonna be the guinea pig?



Ahhhh my finger was just on the button for the Seahf AWK-009. 
Now i am confused... Ghehe


----------



## Sylmar

SomeTechNoob said:


> Alright, who's gonna be the guinea pig?



Done. I really like the kind of retro look so I took the bait. Hopefully it won't disappoint after the great ZS5.


----------



## Saoshyant (Jul 24, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Alright, who's gonna be the guinea pig?



I'll give it a try too



BunchOfAtoms said:


> "Independent bass frequency Dynamic driver to enhance general music *administrative levels*".
> 
> Such wow. Much awesome.



No...  just no.

Edit:  It's already sold out.  So either it's sold out in an hour, or there's an issue.


----------



## mono-type

Viber said:


> hmmmmmmmm


I like the looks of this IEM, too. I really dig the design. Now, to wait for a verdict on how it sounds...


----------



## Sylmar

Saoshyant said:


> I'll give it a try too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I ordered it stated there were only 40 available.


----------



## Saoshyant

Sylmar said:


> When I ordered it stated there were only 40 available.



Oh well, it'll be back up soon enough I'm sure.


----------



## Sylmar

Saoshyant said:


> Oh well, it'll be back up soon enough I'm sure.


Absolutely.


----------



## Viber

I think it's another crack at conept of the ZS1.  I think they wanted to take the ZS1 with it's signature bass performance and add improvements in the mids and highs.


----------



## Podster

Viber said:


> hmmmmmmmm



THX for posting Viber, these really remind me of my K1 VJJB's which for the price are great little iem's. usually my lawn mowing iem's


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> THX for posting Viber, these really remind me of my K1 VJJB's which for the price are great little iem's. usually my lawn mowing iem's


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## ridwan47

ZST or ZS5? I'm a poor guy but I heard ZS5 is miles better than ZST. Which one should I buy? Also, official KZ store wants $30. I found this one with $5 less. Is it ok?
http://s.aliexpress.com/nYRjMNJF


----------



## groucho69

ridwan47 said:


> ZST or ZS5? I'm a poor guy but I heard ZS5 is miles better than ZST. Which one should I buy? Also, official KZ store wants $30. I found this one with $5 less. Is it ok?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/nYRjMNJF



Check out Gearbest.


----------



## mono-type

ridwan47 said:


> ZST or ZS5? I'm a poor guy but I heard ZS5 is miles better than ZST. Which one should I buy?


Personally, I don't like the sound of ZST, maybe because it's too treble-centric and somewhat lacking in bass. I think you should go for ZS5.


----------



## IamMe90

ridwan47 said:


> ZST or ZS5? I'm a poor guy but I heard ZS5 is miles better than ZST. Which one should I buy? Also, official KZ store wants $30. I found this one with $5 less. Is it ok?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/nYRjMNJF



I have had the ZS5 for a couple weeks and it is a steal for the price.  I will have the ZST (accidentally ordered it thinking it was the ZS5 initially) when I get home from work today and can give a quick side by side comparison for you then. But from what I understand, the 5 is supposed to be a fairly substantial upgrade.


----------



## mono-type (Jul 24, 2017)

I think the ZST would be great if you listen to a lot of acoustic stuff, but like I said earlier, I find it lacking in oomph when it comes to bass; just my personal preference, though. Otherwise, ZS3 (with Slater mod; this IEM is great especially if you listen to a lot of electronic music) or ZS5 would be great all-rounders.


----------



## -sandro-

Who said the sale on gearbest is fake was right. I tried to refresh constantly at 9 AM UTC before and after that time and the zs5 *never* showed at 9.99.


----------



## groucho69

-sandro- said:


> Who said the sale on gearbest is fake was right. I tried to refresh constantly at 9 AM UTC before and after that time and the zs5 *never* showed at 9.99.



It worked for me


----------



## -sandro-

groucho69 said:


> It worked for me




today?


----------



## groucho69

Couple days ago


----------



## Pankaj135

Well Kz Ate is no longer sold by official Kz store anymore on aliexpress. Looks like they are phased out


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I think it's another crack at conept of the ZS1.  I think they wanted to take the ZS1 with it's signature bass performance and add improvements in the mids and highs.



Agreed, and I really like the original ZS1.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> THX for posting Viber, these really remind me of my K1 VJJB's which for the price are great little iem's. usually my lawn mowing iem's



K1 or V1? V1 is the double driver. K1 looks like this:


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> Couple days ago



Me too. $9.99 shipped. Who could pass that deal up? I didn't even need them - just a spare pair.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

the kz zse are sold out


----------



## Slater

Pankaj135 said:


> Well Kz Ate is no longer sold by official Kz store anymore on aliexpress. Looks like they are phased out



Even if the "Official KZ Store" is out of the ATE, soooo many other stores have plenty of ATE. I did a quick search on Aliexpress, Amazon, Gearbest, ebay. You could buy enough ATE to fill a semi truck.

Or are you thinking about the ZSE (the new one)?


----------



## Podster

slaterlovesspam said:


> K1 or V1? V1 is the double driver. K1 looks like this:



Sorry, wrote the "K" buy mistake! I meant the old V1's which had the dual dynamics but the nozzle was positioned in the center of the iem instead of on the end like the ones in Viber's post.


----------



## Viber

-sandro- said:


> Who said the sale on gearbest is fake was right. I tried to refresh constantly at 9 AM UTC before and after that time and the zs5 *never* showed at 9.99.



It's not fake.
Turns out you can only see the 10$ price at checkout, but they run out so fast, i did the whole process in 2 seconds with 10$ pricetag on and i managed to miss the sale.   It was really a matter of luck, i'm pretty quick with my mouse and i still didn't have a chance of getting them.
Later on it was confirmed by GB that there were only 6 units that day for 10$.

If it helps i believe that the ZS5 will eventually drop down to around 13$.


----------



## Podster

Viber said:


> It's not fake.
> Turns out you can only see the 10$ price at checkout, but they run out so fast, i did the whole process in 2 seconds with 10$ pricetag on and i managed to miss the sale.   It was really a matter of luck, i'm pretty quick with my mouse and i still didn't have a chance of getting them.
> Later on it was confirmed by GB that there were only 6 units that day for 10$.
> 
> If it helps i believe that the ZS5 will eventually drop down to around 13$.



Viber, you're as fast as "Ned Nederlander"


----------



## Podster

Oh look, it's a KZ Clan photo


----------



## loomisjohnson

ridwan47 said:


> ZST or ZS5? I'm a poor guy but I heard ZS5 is miles better than ZST. Which one should I buy? Also, official KZ store wants $30. I found this one with $5 less. Is it ok?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/nYRjMNJF


the zs5 has ridden the hype train for longer than any chifi iem i can remember, and it is an enhancement in many respects of the zst--deeper (tho less controlled) low end, much beefier, richer mids and more high end extension/detail. imaging and instrument placement are also audibly better. that said, having spent more time with both i can't necessarily say the zs5 is "miles better" than the zst, mainly because the zst is more top-to-bottom coherent--you're less conscious of hearing the different frequencies. the zst is also more efficient and easier to drive, while the zs5 really needs an amp to sound its best. on vidal's 0-10 scale (where he rates the zs5 at 9.7), i'd put the zs5 at around 9.1 and the zst around 8.8, if that's any help (i'd put the urbanfun at more like 9.5 and the ed9 at 8.9).


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Me too. $9.99 shipped. Who could pass that deal up? I didn't even need them - just a spare pair.



Same


----------



## khighly

Will buy the ZSE Wednesday if available.

Bluetooth cable is terrible, wouldn't recommend unless you absolutely need it.


----------



## IamMe90

ridwan47 said:


> ZST or ZS5? I'm a poor guy but I heard ZS5 is miles better than ZST. Which one should I buy? Also, official KZ store wants $30. I found this one with $5 less. Is it ok?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/nYRjMNJF



To follow up on this now that I've heard both - the ZST are by no means bad, but the mids suffer a lot compared to the ZS5, and the detail is generally less present across the board. The bass sounds very good on the ZST though, maybe as good as the the ZS5. They are also much more aesthetically pleasing, if that sort of thing matters to you.


----------



## khighly




----------



## Viber

Podster said:


> Viber, you're as fast as "Ned Nederlander"




As fast as internet explorer


----------



## Francisk

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs5 has ridden the hype train for longer than any chifi iem i can remember, and it is an enhancement in many respects of the zst--deeper (tho less controlled) low end, much beefier, richer mids and more high end extension/detail. imaging and instrument placement are also audibly better. that said, having spent more time with both i can't necessarily say the zs5 is "miles better" than the zst, mainly because the zst is more top-to-bottom coherent--you're less conscious of hearing the different frequencies. the zst is also more efficient and easier to drive, while the zs5 really needs an amp to sound its best. on vidal's 0-10 scale (where he rates the zs5 at 9.7), i'd put the zs5 at around 9.1 and the zst around 8.8, if that's any help (i'd put the urbanfun at more like 9.5 and the ed9 at 8.9).


I totally agree with your findings between the ZS5 and the ZST but I have to disagree about the UrbanFun HiFi sounding better than ZS5 and ZST from my own experience. To me both ZS5 and ZST sounds better (after pairing them to Comply T400 tips) than the UrbanFun HiFi.


----------



## Pankaj135

slaterlovesspam said:


> Even if the "Official KZ Store" is out of the ATE, soooo many other stores have plenty of ATE. I did a quick search on Aliexpress, Amazon, Gearbest, ebay. You could buy enough ATE to fill a semi truck.
> 
> Or are you thinking about the ZSE (the new one)?



I'm talking about ATE, ATR, HD9 & ATES.

Its no longer in production.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Will buy the ZSE Wednesday if available.
> 
> Bluetooth cable is terrible, wouldn't recommend unless you absolutely need it.



It works best on the ZST. I don't like it at all on the ZS3 or ZS5.


----------



## Slater

Pankaj135 said:


> I'm talking about ATE, ATR, HD9 & ATES.
> 
> Its no longer in production.



Gotcha. What I meant was OK production may have stopped, but there is no shortage of stock from many many suppliers.


----------



## Envinite

Does anyone knows whether the 2 pin male plug used on Westone, JH, Earsonics, 1964Ears cables are fit with KZ ZST recessed 2 pin female? I'm sure these 2 pins are not universal as MMCX since I've seen these plugs with different pins-end diameter/ plastic housing size, so I don't want to end up with plugs that is too big or too loose to connect to ZST.

Below is the pins I want to purchase that advertised for previously mentioned IEM brands.







Anyway, does anyone knows whether MMCX female socket are created equally? I want to buy MMCX female socket that is designed for PCB (below 1st pic) because it is like 1/3 the price of a MMCX female socket advertised for attached directly on a device/IEM (below 2nd pic). I never work with MMCX before so I'm concerned whether both have the same locking mechanism nor durability.










I'm thinking to either make 2 pins cable for ZST, or convert all my IEMs to just use MMCX instead for simplicity sake, and also because 2 pins male connector are shaped differently according to IEM recessed socket, is pretty rare and more expensive than a MMCX male plug around my place


----------



## khighly (Jul 25, 2017)

Envinite said:


> Does anyone knows whether the 2 pin male plug used on Westone, JH, Earsonics, 1964Ears cables are fit with KZ ZST recessed 2 pin female? I'm sure these 2 pins are not universal as MMCX since I've seen these plugs with different pins-end diameter/ plastic housing size, so I don't want to end up with plugs that is too big or too loose to connect to ZST.
> 
> Below is the pins I want to purchase that advertised for previously mentioned IEM brands.
> 
> ...



Those 2 & 4 ground pins are also for strength and durability. It should sit right against the PCB when soldered.


----------



## Viber

ZSE in stock and dropped to 8$ (USD) on KZ offical ali store.


----------



## Mellowship

Viber said:


> ZSE in stock and dropped to 8$ (USD) on KZ offical ali store.



Damn... Didn't resist. Pulled the trigger on those for 6.87 Euros...


----------



## hoerlurar

slaterlovesspam said:


> It works best on the ZST. I don't like it at all on the ZS3 or ZS5.



have you tried qcy qy19?
That's my BT iems right now, and they're good, but i'm a bit interested in the KZ BT module as well, if it sounds at least 'good enough'


----------



## Mellowship (Jul 25, 2017)

Brought my ZS3 today... Hadn't used these IEMs for quite a while, but yesterday I decided to remove the grilles and the inside foams. Only took the grilles off, because they didn't have the black tiny foams. Well, without the grilles, they seem to roll off at slightly higher freqs and the bass seems less intrusive.
Comparing to the ZS5, the ZS3 has less definition and soundstage, are very source-dependant (they seem totally different IEMs with different sources, i.e. smartphone, computer, DAP, amp, mainly in the bass response), have more sub-bass but less defined. Overall, the ZS5 are better, but not by a long run, as the ZS3 are still capable of enjoyable sound and are indeed very "musical" and confy.


----------



## Sylmar (Jul 25, 2017)

mono-type said:


> Personally, I don't like the sound of ZST, maybe because it's too treble-centric and somewhat lacking in bass. I think you should go for ZS5.



Got a message from the seller that I could cancel my order for ZSE I made before and reorder for the new price. Very generous.

Curious about the ZSE. They seem pretty small judging from pictures.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

ZS5 with Mandarines by symbio tips = awesomness


----------



## Viber

Damn, ZSE is gonna be cheap is hell.
Can already be found for 6.5$ on Ali, maybe it will be even cheaper once it hits GearBest flash sale.


----------



## Viber

One seller claims ZSE drivers are:
Driver unit:  * 6.8mm + 8mm* double driver unit  

So it's the same configuration as the ZS1 in terms of driver size  (ZS2 drivers are 6mm + 6.8mm).


----------



## mono-type (Jul 25, 2017)

Sylmar said:


> mono-type said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I don't like the sound of ZST, maybe because it's too treble-centric and somewhat lacking in bass. I think you should go for ZS5.
> ...


Seems like you quoted the wrong person/misquoted me, dude, from the looks of your post.


----------



## Envinite

Guys, if you get can't stand the treble and the lack of bass on the ZST, you could try use a tuning foam (that used on the back of earbuds driver, available on most DIY audio store for like 10 cents a pair), cut it the same size as the nozzle, and put it beneath the metal grill. I used a paper hole puncher that makes the same hole diameter as the ZST inside nozzle and use the peeled glue on the bottom side of tuning foam to stick it in into the nozzle. This is pretty much the same trick that other IEM use to shape a sound signature. The ZS3 have this too.

Basically since the higher the freq, the more directional a sound gets, the foam helps dampening the harsh treble by scattering the sound through the foam pores (and of course the glue on the side of the tuning foam affect this process). As the frequency gets lower, the dampening effect will have less amount since the lower the freq, the less directional a sound will get. This is why you will only hear the bass of a car sound system from far away, and hear less treble when your ear is not in the direction of a speaker's tweeter; and considering the ZST armature driver is located in the nozzle right pointing to your ear drum, more presence of higher freq is to be expected. Meanwhile the metal grill while helps filtering dust, it supposedly will help reflecting the sound. I can't explain the reflection any further since I'm no expert on this subject tho, but these grills affect the overall sound somehow.

So that said, since the piercing high is no more because higher freq gets dampened, you'll notice a lower volume since ZST is a 'treble centric' IEM. I think I feel like around 8dB decrease of overall sound from using this mod. You can compensate this lower overall volume by setting a higher volume on your device, and then you will notice that lower freq have more presence thus making a more pumpy bass. Note that there's no noticeable changes on the sound stage.






I listen to trance and deep house music a lot, so it's really a torture when listening to trance since the genre often focused on treble details, and house music sounds lame because there's not much bass. This mod surely makes it FAR FAR more enjoyable compared to listening on stock ZST. I've tested if for a week now and don't miss that ridiculous treble on stock ZST.

I would be glad if someone tried this on their ZST and compare it with the ZS5 though.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Francisk said:


> I totally agree with your findings between the ZS5 and the ZST but I have to disagree about the UrbanFun HiFi sounding better than ZS5 and ZST from my own experience. To me both ZS5 and ZST sounds better (after pairing them to Comply T400 tips) than the UrbanFun HiFi.


vive le difference--i can easily see why you'd prefer the kzs, but for me the urbanfun (along with the bosshifi b3 and einsear t2) have that certain hard-to-define "refinement"--they really do sound like much more expensive phones.


----------



## groucho69

Viber said:


> As fast as internet explorer



IE? What's that?


----------



## Slater

hoerlurar said:


> have you tried qcy qy19?
> That's my BT iems right now, and they're good, but i'm a bit interested in the KZ BT module as well, if it sounds at least 'good enough'



I have not.

Other than both KZ BT modules, Bluedio T3+, and a bone-conducting BT headphone, the only BT IEM I own is the Awei A920BLS (aka A920BL Pro).


----------



## Saoshyant

ZSE for under 10USD, and it's bought.


----------



## groucho69

Envinite said:


> Does anyone knows whether the 2 pin male plug used on Westone, JH, Earsonics, 1964Ears cables are fit with KZ ZST recessed 2 pin female? I'm sure these 2 pins are not universal as MMCX since I've seen these plugs with different pins-end diameter/ plastic housing size, so I don't want to end up with plugs that is too big or too loose to connect to ZST.
> 
> Below is the pins I want to purchase that advertised for previously mentioned IEM brands.
> 
> ...



Your fears are well founded. When I was selling this stuff I was amazed at the variation even withing the same batch, never mind from factory to factory. You will just have to give it a go and hope for the best.


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> Damn... Didn't resist. Pulled the trigger on those for 6.87 Euros...



Yes...I am so weak...


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> Your fears are well founded. When I was selling this stuff I was amazed at the variation even withing the same batch, never mind from factory to factory. You will just have to give it a go and hope for the best.



This is exactly why I try to buy 2 of every IEM. Besides having a backup pair in the event of breakage, having more than 1 helps to detect variability in sound (that you'd otherwise be completely oblivious to if you only had 1, because you'd have nothing to compare it to). It also makes modding easier because you have the unmodified version to A-B with as you tweak.


----------



## Sylmar

mono-type said:


> Seems like you quoted the wrong person/misquoted me, dude, from the looks of your post.



Sorry I did. The quoting mechanism is not the most intuitive I must say.


----------



## mono-type

Sylmar said:


> Sorry I did. The quoting mechanism is not the most intuitive I must say.


No worries.  I thought I should let you know. Yeah, I concur that the way the Head-Fi forum quotes a post is quite confusing at first.

Anyway, on-topic. Regarding the Slater mod for ZS3, I really decided to put back the red screen. Without the red screen, it lost some of the bass details, almost similar to a ZST (in which I kinda don't like when I A-B'd it with the ZS3). Putting them back on, it regained some of the bass, in which I'm looking for in the ZS3 and the reason why I bought it in the first place.


----------



## peskypesky

loomisjohnson said:


> vive le difference--i can easily see why you'd prefer the kzs, but for me the urbanfun (along with the bosshifi b3 and einsear t2) have that certain hard-to-define "refinement"--they really do sound like much more expensive phones.


I really want to try the UrbanFuns...but the straight plug is a deal-breaker for me. I really wish they'd put a right-angle plug on it.


----------



## Sylmar

mono-type said:


> No worries.  I thought I should let you know. Yeah, I concur that the way the Head-Fi forum quotes a post is quite confusing at first.
> 
> Anyway, on-topic. Regarding the Slater mod for ZS3, I really decided to put back the red screen. Without the red screen, it lost some of the bass details, almost similar to a ZST (in which I kinda don't like when I A-B'd it with the ZS3). Putting them back on, it regained some of the bass, in which I'm looking for in the ZS3 and the reason why I bought it in the first place.


I've also done the mod but left the red screens. I don't know what it is with the ZS3 but it's always in my ears even though I got the ZS5 as well.


----------



## -sandro-

Seriously??? I had to put in the cart and see the checkout for 9.99??? whatever...


----------



## mono-type

Sylmar said:


> I've also done the mod but left the red screens. I don't know what it is with the ZS3 but it's always in my ears even though I got the ZS5 as well.


Man, I'm getting mixed feedback on the ZS5. I dunno if it's the one I should buy next, or should I wait for the ZSE? (in my place, it's still not on sale locally; don't wanna risk buying it online) I need to A-B the ZS5 along with ZS3 the next time I visit my nearby headphone store...

Also, we are on the same boat regarding the ZS3 lol. Like you, it's almost stuck on my ears. It's like I almost ignore all of my other headphones/earphones.


----------



## groucho69

-sandro- said:


> Seriously??? I had to put in the cart and see the checkout for 9.99??? whatever...


----------



## rendyG

peskypesky said:


> I really want to try the UrbanFuns...but the straight plug is a deal-breaker for me. I really wish they'd put a right-angle plug on it.



I dont know guys, I bought Urbanfuns.. delicate treble (and I am treble sensitive, ok for me), but I can not get used to its bass. I think that mid bass hump annoys me, because I´m used to more flat bass from RE400 I guess 
I have also ATE which I don´t find too boomy, I don´t know.. Tip rolling may help, willsee...
*Just jumped on ZSE deal! I like that design, bought it instead of ZS5 which I was looking at recently


----------



## peskypesky

Radek Jandl said:


> *Just jumped on ZSE deal!



how can we possibly resist at that price? It's less than a lunch at McDonald's (not that I ever eat at McD's, but....)


----------



## bokiboki

I got KZ ZS5 ... Jesus ... this is really good! I can not get them out of my ears! They are exceptional. Everything is gud:bass, medium, high, good dynamics! It's really good to listen to them. I did not expect this. Every genre of music is heard very well,from vocals to psytrance.Whoever thinks of buying them, do it freely! I've been audiofil all my life and this is one true enjoyment in music.


----------



## bokiboki (Jul 25, 2017)

The dynamics of kz zs5 is really good, bad recordings are more 2d compared to good recordings that have a 3d presentation with a pronounced dynamics. They are pretty linear in presentation. Of course, they need more power for complete enjoyment than any sound unit with more drivers, such as large floorstanding speakers with 2-3 bass drivers, 2 middle and high


----------



## Holypal

Hope someone can compare ZSE with VJJB N1. To me, N1 is a very good dual DD iem at $20.


----------



## Podster (Jul 25, 2017)

Woot Woot, ZSE @ $8.98

Don't know about the N1 Holypal but will be able to tell you about the ZSE/V1 Don't really expect the V1 to be better as I'm pretty sure they have dual 6mm's.


----------



## peskypesky

bokiboki said:


> I got KZ ZS5 ... Jesus ... this is really good! I can not get them out of my ears! They are exceptional. Everything is gud:bass, medium, high, good dynamics! It's really good to listen to them. I did not expect this. Every genre of music is heard very well,from vocals to psytrance.Whoever thinks of buying them, do it freely! I've been audiofil all my life and this is one true enjoyment in music.


Glad you like them so much! I'm still waiting anxiously for mine...


----------



## groucho69

peskypesky said:


> how can we possibly resist at that price? It's less than a lunch at McDonald's (not that I ever eat at McD's, but....)



IKR?


----------



## groucho69

bokiboki said:


> I got KZ ZS5 ... Jesus ... this is really good! I can not get them out of my ears! They are exceptional. Everything is gud:bass, medium, high, good dynamics! It's really good to listen to them. I did not expect this. Every genre of music is heard very well,from vocals to psytrance.Whoever thinks of buying them, do it freely! I've been audiofil all my life and this is one true enjoyment in music.



It is stunning when you get them and finally get the hear them. You just can't believe how good they are for the cost.


----------



## NeonHD

WOW do you guys see how the frequencies cave in around 5-10Khz and how it starts peaking in the very upper highs?? I've been searching for an IEM with a sound signature like this (W-shaped is what they call it?), and so far the Sony MH1C is the only W-shaped IEM I've encountered. 






The second frequency chart belongs to the MH1C, and they both share that same dip around the lower-middle highs.

I think there is no denying that I am a fan of the W-shaped sound signature, mostly because it's great for EQing. 

So..... I think I will buy the KZ ZS5 some time soon!


----------



## HungryPanda

For the cost they must be one of the sweetest deals around at the moment


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> For the cost they must be one of the sweetest deals around at the moment



Don't think you'll get an argument on that. I'm hoping the ZSE is as good a deal.


----------



## Viber

Podster said:


> Woot Woot, ZSE @ $8.98
> 
> Don't know about the N1 Holypal but will be able to tell you about the ZSE/V1 Don't really expect the V1 to be better as I'm pretty sure they have dual 6mm's.



*ZSE* is already trending around 6.3$ if you do a little search on Ali.

(I know it's pennies, but i like to see how cheap can Chi-Fi go.)


----------



## groucho69

Viber said:


> *ZSE* is already trending around 6.3$ if you do a little search on Ali.
> 
> (I know it's pennies, but i like to see how cheap can Chi-Fi go.)



Amazing isn't it?


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> It is stunning when you get them and finally get the hear them. You just can't believe how good they are for the cost.



Agreed.


----------



## Slater (Jul 26, 2017)

OK, so I shielded my KZ bluetooth cables to *(partially)* eliminate radio interference.

*MAKE SURE TO READ THE FULL UPDATES BELOW AS WELL!!*

1. Make sure the BT module is turned OFF before beginning. Then you'll need a razor blade, kitchen paring knife, razor blade, guitar pick, etc. Use it to gently split the case at the seam. There is no glue holding it together - it's just clipped together.



2. Once you have it apart, you'll be able to see the guts - battery and microusb port on 1 side, and on the other side the antenna and the bluetooth chip (a Wind Tunnel WT200 chip, which a Google search has verified that both of my cables are the correct bluetooth 4.2 & aptX chipset). Here's what it looks like:




Note that with the board outside of the case, the cable has to be handled CAREFULLY using kid gloves. The wires that are soldered onto the board are very tiny, and if you handle the module like a burly gorilla you'll rip the cables right off the board at the solder joints. Once out of the case, I only handled the module by holding the circuit board module itself - I didn't not pull on or twist the cables themselves. You have been warned.

3. Now you'll need some sort of foil tape. I used the aluminum type used for heating and air conditioning applications. You can also use copper tape. Both types are very thin, and have an adhesive backing. You want to cut a thin strip just about 1mm less than the width of the bluetooth chip. Then peel off the backing, and cut off a small piece large enough to cover the top of the chip, BUT NOT LARGE ENOUGH TO HANG OVER THE EDGES! The reason for this is because you don't want any of the metallic tape to contact the pins on the outside of the chip, or you will short out and damage your bluetooth module. The goal is to have about a 0.5mm edge around the whole chip that does not have any tape. This way you ensure the piece isn't too large. You have been warned. I've illustrated this concept here:





If you can't get or don't have any of the aluminum or copper tape, you can use standard aluminum foil (and attach with a TINY amount of super glue applied using a toothpick). I strongly recommend the adhesive-backed tape though. With super glue there's potential for screwing it up (using too much glue, gluing the aluminum foil on crooked, etc. With the adhesive backed tape, you can peel it off and redo it if there is ever an issue, vs the permanence of super gluing standard aluminum foil. But it's up to you.

4. Next cut 1-3 more pieces of the same size and add them on top as additional layers. I used a total of (4) layers of tape because I used aluminum. If you are using copper tape, you can use (2) layers (because copper will shield better than aluminum, so you have to use more aluminum).

5. Make sure the little plastic button piece is inserted where it belongs in the housing, then carefully put the board back into the housing (putting the cable reliefs back where they go in the ends). Then clip the housing back together and you're all done. I didn't have to use any glue because the clips were all intact when I first took the case apart. If you happened to break some of the clips, use a drop of super glue (applied w/a toothpick) when you put the case back together.

6. Turn on the module and test to make sure it's working. I did both of my cables (ZS3/ZS5 and ZST) in one sitting - each one took about 10 minutes from start to finish.

I've been testing the cables for the last few hours, and so far haven't had any skipping due to interference (ie doing the things and in the same places that I previously experienced interference). If anything changes, I'll let you know.

*UPDATE 1: It seems that I spoke too soon. Indoors, the shielding fix seems to have corrected all interference. Outdoors, it's sadly another story - it's still interference city, and the constant skipping makes me want to stomp the bluetooth cable into oblivion! Both of my cables act consistently (the latest version ZS3/ZS5 and ZST cables, purchased from different sellers). Since others report the same cutting out/interference behavior, this seems to be a product design flaw, not an isolated QC issue with 1 or 2 cables.

UPDATE 2: I've determined that the ultimate cause of the issue is an incorrectly designed antenna. The procedure to permanently correct the issue can be found here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1284#post-13623298*


----------



## IamMe90

Jesus, about 30 hours use with these (zs5) and I can't believe how freaking good these sound! It's unbelievable how cheap these are.....


----------



## ricemanhk

IamMe90 said:


> Jesus, about 30 hours use with these (zs5) and I can't believe how freaking good these sound! It's unbelievable how cheap these are.....



LOL glad to see everyone enjoying their ZS5s

My one and only gripe with the ZS5 is over time as the oils/wax from your ear migrates to the nozzle (yes ewww) the starline tips come off quite easily as there isn't a notch on the nozzle like the ZST.  I've lost 2 tips on separate occasions already...thankfully replacements are not too expensive but I only use the M size so have a fair number of large and small leftover.  Alternatively you can put them in a box, but then these are my daily drivers now and I just tie them up (figure 8 style) and leave them in a side pocket in my bag...


----------



## Slater (Jul 25, 2017)

ricemanhk said:


> LOL glad to see everyone enjoying their ZS5s
> 
> My one and only gripe with the ZS5 is over time as the oils/wax from your ear migrates to the nozzle (yes ewww) the starline tips come off quite easily as there isn't a notch on the nozzle like the ZST.  I've lost 2 tips on separate occasions already...thankfully replacements are not too expensive but I only use the M size so have a fair number of large and small leftover.  Alternatively you can put them in a box, but then these are my daily drivers now and I just tie them up (figure 8 style) and leave them in a side pocket in my bag...



You could always glue the tips on. Many people do that to IEMs with no ill effects. It's not permanent because glue doesn't adhere to silicone; think of it as semi-permanent.

I had to glue the tips onto my MEMT X5 because the nozzle is really short and I got tired of the tips just falling off whenever I'd remove the X5 and clean the tips before storage.


----------



## eyepauls (Jul 25, 2017)

Penon order just arrived!

..currently using the 1more quads as my daily's, particularly interested to hear how the ZS5 goes with/without the 'upgrade' cable, as well as the differences when paired with my DFB 1.5..


----------



## Slater

eyepauls said:


> Penon order just arrived!
> 
> ..currently using the 1more quads as my daily's, particularly interested to hear how the ZS5 goes with/without the 'upgrade' cable, as well as the differences when paired with my DFB 1.5..



Nice setup! You know it's ChiFi when the carrying case costs as much as the IEM LOL


----------



## IamMe90

eyepauls said:


> Penon order just arrived!
> 
> ..currently using the 1more quads as my daily's, particularly interested to hear how the ZS5 goes with/without the 'upgrade' cable, as well as the differences when paired with my DFB 1.5..



Let me know your thoughts re: the silver cable. I thought it was a noticeable downgrade from the stock cable, but I'm wondering if it's just some connectivity issue/problem with the cable itself.


----------



## ricemanhk

slaterlovesspam said:


> You could always glue the tips on. Many people do that to IEMs with no ill effects. It's not permanent because glue doesn't adhere to silicone; think of it as semi-permanent.
> 
> I had to glue the tips onto my MEMT X5 because the nozzle is really short and I got tired of the tips just falling off whenever I'd remove the X5 and clean the tips before storage.



Use normal glue (elmer's, UHU etc.) or super glue (Cyanoacrylates)?  I've had cases where super glue damages certain plastics or paint/coatings...


----------



## toddy0191

ricemanhk said:


> LOL glad to see everyone enjoying their ZS5s
> 
> My one and only gripe with the ZS5 is over time as the oils/wax from your ear migrates to the nozzle (yes ewww) the starline tips come off quite easily as there isn't a notch on the nozzle like the ZST.  I've lost 2 tips on separate occasions already...thankfully replacements are not too expensive but I only use the M size so have a fair number of large and small leftover.  Alternatively you can put them in a box, but then these are my daily drivers now and I just tie them up (figure 8 style) and leave them in a side pocket in my bag...



You can also cut off a small part of a smaller tip you don't use and use it to create your own notch and they'll not fall of again. Had to do this when using certain tips on my tennmk cellos.

Am going to do this on my ZS5s to as having the same problem as you.

On another note, I always use the medium starline tips, but with the ZS5s.i used the large size and it gave me a better deal and improved the base.


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> Use normal glue (elmer's, UHU etc.) or super glue (Cyanoacrylates)?  I've had cases where super glue damages certain plastics or paint/coatings...



I used a glue I had that was designed to glue rubber and whatnot. It was some sort of liquid nails product.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> You can also cut off a small part of a smaller tip you don't use and use it to create your own notch and they'll not fall of again. Had to do this when using certain tips on my tennmk cellos.
> 
> Am going to do this on my ZS5s to as having the same problem as you.
> 
> On another note, I always use the medium starline tips, but with the ZS5s.i used the large size and it gave me a better deal and improved the base.



Hmmm, I can't picture what you're describing. Do you have a photo?


----------



## toddy0191

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hmmm, I can't picture what you're describing. Do you have a photo?



I'll do it later and post one.

Imagine turning a tip inside out exposing the part that attaches to the nozzle and then cutting off a a few milimetres, giving you a small ring which you can place on the nozzle.

If that's of a tip with a small diameter it will have a greater grip. Pull the starline tips over this and it'll stop on.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> I'll do it later and post one.
> 
> Imagine turning a tip inside out exposing the part that attaches to the nozzle and then cutting off a a few milimetres, giving you a small ring which you can place on the nozzle.
> 
> If that's of a tip with a small diameter it will have a greater grip. Pull the starline tips over this and it'll stop on.



Got it; I can picture it now. You could probably also use a small o-ring (which is in effect what you made by cutting a "slice" of an eartip nozzle).


----------



## Sylmar

mono-type said:


> Man, I'm getting mixed feedback on the ZS5. I dunno if it's the one I should buy next, or should I wait for the ZSE? (in my place, it's still not on sale locally; don't wanna risk buying it online) I need to A-B the ZS5 along with ZS3 the next time I visit my nearby headphone store...
> 
> Also, we are on the same boat regarding the ZS3 lol. Like you, it's almost stuck on my ears. It's like I almost ignore all of my other headphones/earphones.



I would definately also try the ZS5. Technically it's the best KZ probably. It's just that somehow the ZS3 has my preference for now but I'm probably in the minority. The ZS5 is very good.


----------



## 129207

My KZ ZS5;s arrived yesterday. Have been listening to them ever since I unboxed them. Rather impressed for the $20 I spent. They actually remind me a little of my GR07 CC's, but with a wider, but less 3D, soundstage and more pronounced sub bass. Comfort is not great and the cable is actually pretty horrible; very microphonic and flimsy. Still, it's bizarre how much SQ you can get these days for so little cash. 

When I first tried them out, the soundstage was incredibly wonky, with no defined center and a massive channel imbalance. Was about to bin them, thinking I bought into another dumb hype, but found out I caused them to play out of phase because I didn't connect the cables the right way.  The "L" and "R" on the cables need to point outwards, not inwards. If you mix these up, everything sounds wrong. Duh. I should have read Slaterlovesspam's signature!


----------



## Mal Waldron

This is my first experience with a IEM, and after some days with a pair of ZS5 I must admit these are a truly jewel. They have better level of detail than my other headphones, Fidelio X2 and Beyerdynamics DT 770 250 ohm. They are surprisingly good with jazz and classical music. They meet the most complex passages with great solvency.  I'm using generic comply foams. The silicon tips don't isolate very well. My only complain is confort, but I suppose this is common to most of IEM.

Have a good day, friends


----------



## Viber

It's interesting that ZSE doesn't use an over ear design like the rest of the ZS series. 
Cable down design gives you more mobility i guess...


----------



## mono-type

Negakinu said:


> I should have read Slaterlovesspam's signature!


Good thing I saw @slaterlovesspam's sig even before I bought my ZS3, so I was prepared.  The way the connectors are designed is prone to be plugged the wrong way, especially if one is very excited to try their newly-bought KZ's.


----------



## colgateam

Viber said:


> It's interesting that ZSE doesn't use an over ear design like the rest of the ZS series.
> Cable down design gives you more mobility i guess...



The ZSE is for a completely different marketshare than the ZS5 as shown by the rrp.
ZS5 is just getting cheap as they start to phase it out.
KZ have done many cable down designs over the years


----------



## ioques

Mal Waldron said:


> This is my first experience with a IEM, and after some days with a pair of ZS5 I must admit these are a truly jewel. They have better level of detail than my other headphones, Fidelio X2 and Beyerdynamics DT 770 250 ohm. They are surprisingly good with jazz and classical music. They meet the most complex passages with great solvency.  I'm using generic comply foams. The silicon tips don't isolate very well. My only complain is confort, but I suppose this is common to most of IEM.
> 
> Have a good day, friends



About confort, I had to get ride of the memorie part of the cable.
I'm waiting for my ZS5 to arrive, meanwhile still in love with ZS3 after that tweak in the cable, before that I couldn't get use to them too.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> OK, so I shielded my KZ bluetooth cables to *(partially)* eliminate radio interference.
> 
> *MAKE SURE TO READ THE FULL UPDATE BELOW AS WELL!!*
> 
> ...



Damn that's too bad after all that.


----------



## groucho69

IamMe90 said:


> Jesus, about 30 hours use with these (zs5) and I can't believe how freaking good these sound! It's unbelievable how cheap these are.....



What king of voodoo is this?


----------



## groucho69

colgateam said:


> The ZSE is for a completely different marketshare than the ZS5 as shown by the rrp.
> ZS5 is just getting cheap as they start to phase it out.
> KZ have done many cable down designs over the years



Phase it out? The ZS5 is just released?


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> Damn that's too bad after all that.



That's the way it goes sometimes.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's the way it goes sometimes.



Well you love modding anyway...


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> Well you love modding anyway...



True dat LOL


----------



## jaydm99

Damn. I think I'm better off with the ZSE than getting a replacement cable for my ZS3 I mean, the right earpice will work if I wear the cables at a certain position (the damage is on the part of the cable that is tucked in behind the ear or in between the plug and the cable). Guess I'll at least wait for reviews for the ZSE. Plus a local seller is claiming that there is a new silver plated cable specifically for the ZS3 that is similar to the new straight plug spc for ZST.


----------



## groucho69

Jay Magaling said:


> Damn. I think I'm better off with the ZSE than getting a replacement cable for my ZS3 I mean, the right earpice will work if I wear the cables at a certain position (the damage is on the part of the cable that is tucked in behind the ear or in between the plug and the cable). Guess I'll at least wait for reviews for the ZSE. Plus a local seller is claiming that there is a new silver plated cable specifically for the ZS3 that is similar to the new straight plug spc for ZST.



SQ is an unknown for ZSE. Although I did order. At the price there is little risk.


----------



## Slater

OK, so I have an update to the KZ bluetooth cable shielding mod posted here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1282#post-13621972.

It turns out the problem is the length of the antenna. It is too short (24mm total). I have no clue how or why they came up with that length, but that is NOT the correct length for a generic PCB-trace style bluetooth antenna. *The CORRECT length for a quarter-wavelength bluetooth antenna should be 31mm*, not 24mm.

If you want to read more about the topic, here is some info that explains the details: http://bluflux.com/bluetooth-antenna-design-guide-step-1/

If you don't understand any of the nerdy mumbo jumbo, don't sweat - the takeaway is that the KZ antenna is 7mm too short.

Anyways, to correct the problem, all you have to do is extend the stock antenna with a piece of wire.

1. Pop the case apart and remove the board. For details about how to do that, read the shielding mod link I posted above. Next scrape away the coating at the very tip of the antenna until about 1mm of bare copper is exposed (I used an Xacto blade). Don't scrape away too much or too hard or you will scrape the copper trace right off the board.

2. Now you need to solder some sort of small piece of wire to the exposed "pad" you made on the antenna. The best thing to use is the leg from some sort of through hole component (an LED, carbon resistor, etc). I used a small piece of wire, but only because I was lazy to find an unneeded through-hole component. Antennas should really be solid core wire, not stranded wire like I used. But I wasn't even expecting this to work so I really didn't care at the time. When I repeat the mod on my 2nd KZ bluetooth cable, I'll use the leg from a resistor.

3. Anyways, once you have the piece of wire soldered on, trim it to *exactly 7mm longer than the end of the stock antenna*. Why not cut it before soldering? It's easier to solder a longer piece of wire and cut it down than to try and solder on a tiny piece of wire. Plus the wire needs to be 7mm longer than the END of the stock antenna, so cutting it after soldering ensures that you aren't counting any material that overlapped the stock wire at the solder joint. In other words, when you look at the photo below, the wire is actually about 8mm long, with 1mm of that length overlapping a section of the stock antenna for soldering purposes. Make sense?

4. Once the wire is soldered, pull the battery away from the back of the board (it's held on by some sticky tape), and wrap the antenna extension around the board. Stick the battery back on the same spot and reassemble the board into the plastic case. The wire is small and thin enough that the case needs no modification whatsoever.

5. Because I've had my case apart a number of times now, the clips don't hold as well as they did the 1st time I put it together. So I just used a few strategically placed drops of super glue to hold the 2 halves of the case together and I was done. Note that you shouldn't need any glue if you've never had the case apart. I only needed a few drops of glue because I've had the case apart numerous times.


What are the results of the mod? *How about DOUBLE THE RANGE with ZERO skipping and interference indoors or outdoors! Yeah for science!*

Now that I've seen what's going on, I believe this was the issue all along. There is no need to shield the bluetooth chipset with foil like I showed yesterday. Just do the antenna mod outlined here and you're golden.

Here's a few photos. The 1st photo shows the extension wire soldered onto the end of the stock antenna (after trimming to 7mm). The 2nd photo shows the antenna folded over onto the back side of the board.

 
 

You're probably thinking - what a PITA for a $7 bluetooth cable. KZ could have just as easily designed the antenna correctly from the get go. I agree, but at least I can finally use my cables without any annoying skipping, so in that respect it was worth the trouble spent.

The mod itself is technically easy, but you would want to have decent soldering skills, a sharp pointed soldering iron, and good eyesight because the wire is so small. If you've never done anything like this, have someone help you or do it for you. Total time from start to finish was about 20 minutes.

Enjoy!


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> OK, so I have an update to the KZ bluetooth cable shielding mod posted here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1282#post-13621972.
> 
> It turns out the problem is the length of the antenna. It is too short (24mm total). I have no clue how or why they came up with that length, but that is NOT the correct length for a generic PCB-trace style bluetooth antenna. *The CORRECT length for a quarter-wavelength bluetooth antenna should be 31mm*, not 24mm.
> 
> ...



You....


----------



## BunchOfAtoms




----------



## Francisk

slaterlovesspam said:


> OK, so I have an update to the KZ bluetooth cable shielding mod posted here: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1282#post-13621972.
> 
> It turns out the problem is the length of the antenna. It is too short (24mm total). I have no clue how or why they came up with that length, but that is NOT the correct length for a generic PCB-trace style bluetooth antenna. *The CORRECT length for a quarter-wavelength bluetooth antenna should be 31mm*, not 24mm.
> 
> ...


I honestly did not experience any skipping or interference with both my KZ ZST and ZS5 Bluetooth cables so far. Could this be a batch issue?


----------



## nihontoman

So I just got a chinese foam tips (t400/500 equivalent) from aliexpress and theya re a must for ZS5. comfort increased dramatically and sound isolation seems a tad better too. sound didn't really change, maybe a bit more e base is noticeable (because of better seal perhaps?) recommended as per the first impressions.


----------



## Slater (Jul 26, 2017)

Francisk said:


> I honestly did not experience any skipping or interference with both my KZ ZST and ZS5 Bluetooth cables so far. Could this be a batch issue?



Could be? Who knows - but consider yourself lucky if you have no problems with either of your cables. Because the constant skipping is a surefire way to put yourself into a rage.

The circuit board in both of mine says "v1.0", which means it's the 1st version of the circuit board (you can see this in the photos I posted).


 

The stock antenna is built onto the board itself (as a copper trace). Even if KZ switched components between batches (larger battery, bluetooth 4.2 vs 4.1 chipset), the circuit board itself would have to be redesigned to correct this engineering error. Both of mine (bought at different times from different sellers) exhibit the same behavior, and there are reports of the same thing happening to others on HF.

The problems seem to be significantly worse outdoors. Do you use yours outdoors - walking around, driving around, etc? Do you live in a rural area, or in the city? What about sources of radio interference (cell phone antennas, wifi networks, etc). What about the source? Computers generally have higher powered wifi and bluetooth signal than the average cell phone. All of that can affect the performance and signal reception.

Other stuff I noticed:

1. The stock antenna seems to be highly directional. When I would set my phone on a table or brick wall and walk about 6-10 feet away, it would cut out if I turned my head away from the phone (ie the control module away from the phone). When I turned my head back towards the phone, the skipping would stop (ie the control module towards the phone). I noticed that the modified antenna corrects this problem. Maybe because I wrapped the antenna around the circuit board, it makes the antenna reception more omni-directional because there's a portion of the antenna on both sides of the board now?

2. With the stock antenna, I noticed if I held the source (iPhone, iPod Touch, etc) in my hand it wouldn't skip, but when I put it in my pocket it was prone to skipping. I don't think it is a distance thing, because my ear is only 2 feet from my pocket. I think when I hold the source in my hand it's using my body as a sort of signal booster (like when you hold your car remote under your chin or touch it to your tongue, you can double or triple the range). Again, the modified antenna corrects this problem as well, and the source being in my pocket isn't a problem anymore.

The weird thing about this is at no point has the headset disconnected. It would just skip. Maybe the skipping was a transient disconnect (packet loss of the stream), but not so much of an interruption that the headset actually disconnected.

I wish I had more answers for you man. Maybe someone on here is an electrical or RF engineer and can shed more light on the topic.


----------



## groucho69

nihontoman said:


> So I just got a chinese foam tips (t400/500 equivalent) from aliexpress and theya re a must for ZS5. comfort increased dramatically and sound isolation seems a tad better too. sound didn't really change, maybe a bit more e base is noticeable (because of better seal perhaps?) recommended as per the first impressions.



I'm using the COMPLY 500


----------



## peskypesky

nihontoman said:


> So I just got a chinese foam tips (t400/500 equivalent) from aliexpress and theya re a must for ZS5. comfort increased dramatically and sound isolation seems a tad better too. sound didn't really change, maybe a bit more e base is noticeable (because of better seal perhaps?) recommended as per the first impressions.


Link please!


----------



## Ynot1 (Jul 26, 2017)

1/4 wave is the minimum recommended, and bigger is better.

Ant also influence battery too.

At the end of the day if you have no interference, you have no interference.


----------



## eyepauls (Jul 26, 2017)

IamMe90 said:


> Let me know your thoughts re: the silver cable. I thought it was a noticeable downgrade from the stock cable, but I'm wondering if it's just some connectivity issue/problem with the cable itself.



ZS5's have been paired with my iphone 7, running spotify at 320 and Itunes (ALAC)..I would alternate between the ZS5 with DFB, without DFB, then switch to my 1more quad with DFB and without, then finally my Custom Art Ei.3 - again, with DFB and without.
I intend to run comparisons with some of the models I have in time..but when the ZS5 arrived yesterday I had been alternating between the 1more quad and Ei.3 - hence those 2 being drawn into my initial comparison..

Regarding the silver cable..
Only thing that stood out was a very minor increase in bass, at the cost of losing some of the vocal clarity - but I certainly wouldn't go calling it an "upgrade"
Apart from the minor curiosity about the quality of the cable..I bought it to have as an "extra"  - so im not fussed on its results and will be sticking with the standard cable.

Great IEM for the price, especially for those who might not have the budget for major brands but are curious about multi-driver's. I was also pleasantly surprised at the build quality.
ZS5 still cant compete with the 1more quad, the quality is a significant step up in pretty much every aspect - from the sound quality to the build and inclusions - but ive always been a firm believer of "you get what you pay for" and the ZS5's are certainly worth their price.

Looking forward to spending more time with it


----------



## Francisk (Jul 26, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Could be? Who knows - but consider yourself lucky if you have no problems with either of your cables. Because the constant skipping is a surefire way to put yourself into a rage.
> 
> The circuit board in both of mine says "v1.0", which means it's the 1st version of the circuit board (you can see this in the photos I posted).
> 
> ...


My KZ Bluetooth cables just arrived a week ago and I noticed that both the box and manual stated Bluetooth 4.2 which I believe is from the newer batch. I use both the Bluetooth cables mostly outdoors and I live in the city. I pair them with my S7 Edge and Cayin N3, both have no dropping out issues unless I wander too far away from the paired device. I've also paired it with my Windows laptop a few times without any issues. I suspect this could be a batch issue.


----------



## Soul_Est

Just received my ZS5 earlier today. Took ~40 days from GearBest in China to Eastern Canada.

First Impressions:
They look good but are too big for what they are. I understand the reasoning but the designer/engineer side of me cringes at the sight. They sound great. Not reference or studio level neutrality and very good. They render the bass in Inori no Umi from the Eureka Seven soundtrack well although a bit boomy.

I have them burning in now and will have a better idea of their sound when I try them out tomorrow.


----------



## ricemanhk

slaterlovesspam said:


> Could be? Who knows - but consider yourself lucky if you have no problems with either of your cables. Because the constant skipping is a surefire way to put yourself into a rage.
> 
> The circuit board in both of mine says "v1.0", which means it's the 1st version of the circuit board (you can see this in the photos I posted).
> 
> ...



I also don't have any skipping issues both indoors and outdoors.  I got mine from taobao so maybe it's an even newer batch with redesigned board, as I did see comments on taobao on earlier versions with skipping/disconnect issues, and there was a period of time before I got it that the BT module wasn't available for sale.


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> I also don't have any skipping issues both indoors and outdoors.  I got mine from taobao so maybe it's an even newer batch with redesigned board, as I did see comments on taobao on earlier versions with skipping/disconnect issues, and there was a period of time before I got it that the BT module wasn't available for sale.



1 of mine was the version that says bluetooth v4.1 on the outer box and v4.2 on the instructions. The other was the one that says v4.2 on both.

Both of them have the same bluetooth 4.2 chipset (Wind Tunnel WT200 chip), and both have the 4hr battery life.

They both also say v1.0 on the circuit board.

Who knows. Maybe KZ will see these posts and fix the antenna in a future version.


----------



## nihontoman

peskypesky said:


> Link please!




^ These are the ones I got, but I'd get These as these should be the same and they are much cheaper.


----------



## Viber

nihontoman said:


> ^ These are the ones I got, but I'd get These as these should be the same and they are much cheaper.



What is the material of the inner ring (the black one that surrounds the earphone's nozzle).  Is it silicone?


----------



## nihontoman

Viber said:


> What is the material of the inner ring (the black one that surrounds the earphone's nozzle).  Is it silicone?


They are elastic material. could be silicone, rubber, tpe or anything else. one thing I know it is a smooth non-porous tube and that's good enough imo


----------



## Viber

nihontoman said:


> They are elastic material. could be silicone, rubber, tpe or anything else. one thing I know it is a smooth non-porous tube and that's good enough imo



I'm asking this because when i use cheap foam tips, they have a tendency to close on the nozzle when they are inside the ear.  I'm interested to know if these have a stronger material which prevents the memory foam from closing on the nozzle.


----------



## nihontoman

to be honest, I haven't noticed anything like that (not that I specifically looked for it though) and I think I'll notice when I take them out of the ears.I'll try and see if these do that, you'll have to wait for me to get back home...


----------



## nihontoman

BTW, sorry for double post, but are there any balanced cables for these? if so, has anyone tried them? I'd like to hear what's all this balanced thing is about and want to get a balanced Dac/amp...


----------



## Viber

nihontoman said:


> to be honest, I haven't noticed anything like that (not that I specifically looked for it though) and I think I'll notice when I take them out of the ears.I'll try and see if these do that, you'll have to wait for me to get back home...



Easiest way to find out is to just open wide and close your mouth when music is playing, if the sound is changing then you know there's a problem.  Notice the Highs when you do this.


----------



## Slater (Jul 27, 2017)

Viber said:


> I'm asking this because when i use cheap foam tips, they have a tendency to close on the nozzle when they are inside the ear.  I'm interested to know if these have a stronger material which prevents the memory foam from closing on the nozzle.



That might mean the tips are too large. The wedge-shaped foam tips are available in S M and L, but many sellers only sell 1 size. I don't mean the nozzle size either - the SML I'm referring to is the actual tip size.

Here's an example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...m-memory-foam-eartips-for-in/32732040972.html

It could also mean that the tips are too long, and are being closed off at the place in your ear canal where there is a sharp turn (I forget what this is called). You can avoid this by trimming down the tips to make them shorter, or you can get the "ball" style foam tips like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...-Tips-For-In-Earphone-Earbud/32722845687.html


----------



## Mellowship

slaterlovesspam said:


> That might mean the tips are too large. The wedge-shaped foam tips are available in S M and L, but many sellers only sell 1 size. I don't mean the nozzle size either - the SML I'm referring to is the actual tip size.
> 
> Here's an example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...m-memory-foam-eartips-for-in/32732040972.html
> 
> It could also mean that the tips are too long, and are being closed off at the place in your ear canal where there is a sharp turn (I forget what this is called). You can avoid this by trimming down the tips to make them shorter, or you can get the "ball" style foam tips like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...-Tips-For-In-Earphone-Earbud/32722845687.html



Some sellers in AE even let you choose the bore size (T100/200/400/500), tip diameter (S/M/L) and colour in the quantities you wish, if you leave a message. For instances, if you buy 10 tips you can choose:
4 units, T200, Medium, Black
4 units, T400, Large, Black
2 units, T100, Large, Red


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> That might mean the tips are too large. The wedge-shaped foam tips are available in S M and L, but many sellers only sell 1 size. I don't mean the nozzle size either - the SML I'm referring to is the actual tip size.
> 
> Here's an example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...m-memory-foam-eartips-for-in/32732040972.html
> 
> It could also mean that the tips are too long, and are being closed off at the place in your ear canal where there is a sharp turn (I forget what this is called). You can avoid this by trimming down the tips to make them shorter, or you can get the "ball" style foam tips like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...-Tips-For-In-Earphone-Earbud/32722845687.html



Yea, i trim down all my foam tips and it helps.  I just thought maybe it happens because there is no inner ring to keep it from closing down on the nozzle.

I haven't noticed there's 3 sizes for each T200/400/500 knockoff, that's more complicated than buying the earphones themselves!


----------



## peskypesky

nihontoman said:


> BTW, sorry for double post, but are there any balanced cables for these? if so, has anyone tried them? I'd like to hear what's all this balanced thing is about and want to get a balanced Dac/amp...


Balanced sound keeps you from tipping over as you listen.


----------



## peskypesky

nihontoman said:


> BTW, sorry for double post, but are there any balanced cables for these? if so, has anyone tried them? I'd like to hear what's all this balanced thing is about and want to get a balanced Dac/amp...


Balanced sound keeps you from tipping over as you listen.


----------



## HungryPanda

Said in stereo


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> Balanced sound keeps you from tipping over as you listen.



haha


----------



## mono-type

peskypesky said:


> Balanced sound keeps you from tipping over as you listen.


This post have made my day.


----------



## Slater (Jul 27, 2017)

Viber said:


> Yea, i trim down all my foam tips and it helps.  I just thought maybe it happens because there is no inner ring to keep it from closing down on the nozzle.
> 
> I haven't noticed there's 3 sizes for each T200/400/500 knockoff, that's more complicated than buying the earphones themselves!



Could be because there's nothing in the end. Maybe you can rig some sort of small oring in there. Or perhaps when you trim them down, remove all of the foam from the cut off piece until it exposes the rubber center tube, then stick that tube section down inside the tip to act as an inner ring.

You can kind of get what I was explaining before about the ear canal from this photo from Spinfit:




If you imagine a foam eartip instead of the silicone ones in the photos, you can see how the ear canal curves to the side, which can smoosh in the end of foam eartips out of shape. Silicone tips do not have this problem. And when you have foam tips that are too long, or too large, that extra foam has to go somewhere (so again it can sometimes smoosh together at the tip).

Getting one of the round foam tips might help with this, as I've noticed that their ends crush less than the wedge-shaped foam tips. You might just have an odd-shaped ear drum vs the average person.


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> Could be because there's nothing in the end. Maybe you can rig some sort of small oring in there. Or perhaps when you trim them down, remove all of the foam from the cut off piece until it exposes the rubber center tube, then stick that tube section down inside the tip to act as an inner ring.
> 
> You can kind of get what I was explaining before about the ear canal from this photo from Spinfit:
> 
> ...



Maybe the round ones are the right ones.
I think they need to compile a test kit of all these shapes and sizes.


----------



## CYoung234

So, I received my first set of ZS5's yesterday, and had a listen today. First impression is wow. These are the real deal. Listened to a piece I have used for years to audition stereo equipment with, the CSO Bernstein Shostakovich Sym. 1/7. To me, these iems sound quite well balanced. Good soundstage, depth, etc. The sound spectrum seems quite realistic, no glaring weaknesses. The 3rd movement of Shostakovich 7 starts with clarinets and woodwinds, and is quite hard to reproduce well, but these iems did quite well. You should hear this piece with Apogee Divas or Scintillas and Mark Levinson amplifiers...

So, I have to say, a very good first impression, totally stock cable and starline tips, just with my phone as well. These are hard to drive, but the sound did not compress.


----------



## nihontoman

peskypesky said:


> Balanced sound keeps you from tipping over as you listen.


appreciate the humor, but need more in-depth answer  is it worth the price or is it just a fad?


----------



## HungryPanda

The only headphones I have really noticed a difference when going balanced were the HD650's


----------



## Hitesh

How common is the limited deal on Gearbest ? I wanted to buy KZ ZST and if these deals are common, I can wait


----------



## Slater

Hitesh said:


> How common is the limited deal on Gearbest ? I wanted to buy KZ ZST and if these deals are common, I can wait



Flash deals happen all of the time. The limited "step" deals happen rarely (step as in x units at 1 price between date #1, then the price steps down on y units between date #2, then the price steps up on z units between date #3).

I've noticed that they usually the do those step deals on newly released products. ZST has been out a while.

Personally, I wouldn't hold your breath. Just wait for the next flash sale and order.

You can also wait for November, when Gearbest and Aliexpress have their crazy sales (such as 11.11, etc).


----------



## peskypesky

Hitesh said:


> How common is the limited deal on Gearbest ? I wanted to buy KZ ZST and if these deals are common, I can wait


The shipping from GearBest is taking so long I'm now starting to wish I'd have spent the extra money and ordered my ZS5's from Amazon with 2-day Prime shipping.


----------



## IamMe90

peskypesky said:


> The shipping from GearBest is taking so long I'm now starting to wish I'd have spent the extra money and ordered my ZS5's from Amazon with 2-day Prime shipping.



That's what I did... for my first pair  My backup pair is en route from GearBest... although I did pay an extra ~$6 or so to get 7-10 day shipping. It still only came out to $26 I think, a steal either way honestly.


----------



## Hitesh

mattpker said:


> I got the KZ ZS5 last week. Really loving it so far but the cable makes a lot of noise when it moves or is touched. I think you guys call this "microphonic"? Can anyone confirm if the upgraded silver cable does not have this issue? Also, my Sure SE215's have a sliding thing on the cable so that when you run the cable behind your back you can tighten it on the back of your head to help it from moving around/coming out (I use these for playing guitar live). Does anyone know of an upgraded cable that has this feature or a product I can get to add it to a cable?


Can anyone else confirm if cable noise is this bad in ZS5 ? If you could compare it to Soundmagic E10, that would be better


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the microphonic noise much worse on the E10 than the ZS5


----------



## IamMe90

I don't notice microphonics at all with the stock cable while actually _listening_ to music (although I can certainly notice it when the music isn't playing) - but then again I listen to my music _very_ loud, so you might not want to take my word for it.


----------



## Hitesh

HungryPanda said:


> I find the microphonic noise much worse on the E10 than the ZS5


That's good to hear. E10 are bearable



IamMe90 said:


> I don't notice microphonics at all with the stock cable while actually _listening_ to music (although I can certainly notice it when the music isn't playing) - but then again I listen to my music _very_ loud, so you might not want to take my word for it.


I listen at low volumes, so it might be a problem. Can you check at low volumes ?


----------



## Envinite

groucho69 said:


> Your fears are well founded. When I was selling this stuff I was amazed at the variation even withing the same batch, never mind from factory to factory. You will just have to give it a go and hope for the best.



Yeah, I don't want to risk buying these not-so-universal $8 2-pins connector and hope for a matching fit, so I decided to open up the connector from stock cable.







These 2 pins connector is pretty much reusable if you do it correctly. The connector are molded directly to the cable like the 3.5mm jack, but unlike the jack, they separate the mold process into two: one for securing the pins soldered to the cable, and another one act as hollow shell that protect the first mold (shown above). Just slice the connector right in the middle line and break the inside mold to get the pins, solder the cable and glue it in. Just a tip: carve the inside a lil to give space for the glue / thicker cable, use thick cream epoxy instead standard liquid power glue, glue the pins first to the inside shell before soldering to avoid messy glue, & avoid glue to dry on the recessed part of the pins or it won't connect properly.

This one looks messy since I half assed it and broke once because I used it without letting the glue cured, but you get the idea. I also have dissembled the connector from broken ZS3 cable perfectly for future modding.







Not the best looking cable, but hey, at least I only spent $3 for this .


----------



## 129207

Hitesh said:


> Can anyone else confirm if cable noise is this bad in ZS5 ? If you could compare it to Soundmagic E10, that would be better



The microphonics on the stock cable were borderline unbearable for me, because I use them mainly when I'm doing stuff outside and moving around. I ordered the silver replacement cable in the hope to get rid of the cable noise. I love the IEMs though. They sound a hell of a lot more expensive than they are.


----------



## Sylmar

Negakinu said:


> The microphonics on the stock cable were borderline unbearable for me, because I use them mainly when I'm doing stuff outside and moving around. I ordered the silver replacement cable in the hope to get rid of the cable noise. I love the IEMs though. They sound a hell of a lot more expensive than they are.


Personally I didn't encounter any microphonics after removing the memory wire. Helped big time, also in comfort.


----------



## Francisk (Jul 28, 2017)

I just received my ZS3 today and I'm totally disappointed with the sound (with stock silicone tips) after having good experience with both good sounding ZST and ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips...I'm surprised with some that claimed the bass didn't bleed into the mids...they're bleeding all over...and where's the highs??? All i hear is wooly bass without any definition. After doing the Slater mod (removing the red and black foam filter), the highs and mids improved a tiny bit but the bass is still over powering everything else in the frequency spectrum. ZS3 is definitely not my definition of a good sounding IEM at whatever cost, even at $5. ZS3 is definitely a basshead's dream come true but it's a total nightmare for me. It's a real pity though because the ZS3 doesn't look like a cheap IEM but it sure sounds cheap. I wish those who claim that it sounds better than the ZST and ZS5 good luck...I'm getting really dizzy listening to it  I wouldn't even dare to give it to my wife or she'll give me that stare and stop making dinner for a month


----------



## Drakis

Francisk said:


> I just received my ZS3 today and I'm totally disappointed with the sound after having good experience with both good sounding ZST and ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips...and I'm surprised with some that claimed the bass didn't bleed into the mids...they're bleeding all over...and where's the highs??? All i hear is wooly bass without any definition. After doing the Slater mod, the highs and mids improved a tiny bit but the bass is still over powering everything else in the frequency spectrum. ZS3 is definitely not my definition of a good sounding IEM at whatever cost, even at $5. ZS3 is definitely a basshead's dream come true...I wish those who claim that it sounds better than the ZST and ZS5 good luck...I'm getting really dizzy listening to it



That's exactly what i think of the ZS3. I never listened to it anymore.


----------



## HungryPanda

I just received the silver replacement cable for the ZS5 and found that the plugs went in with the L/R facing inside not outside as the stock cable was


----------



## 129207

HungryPanda said:


> I just received the silver replacement cable for the ZS5 and found that the plugs went in with the L/R facing inside not outside as the stock cable was



As if this hobby wasn't confusing enough already.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I just received the silver replacement cable for the ZS5 and found that the plugs went in with the L/R facing inside not outside as the stock cable was



It's too risky to go by the direction of the L/R lettering. The only way to verify the proper direction of the plugs is to match the direction of the 'key' - 1 side is round and the other is flat.

The link in my signature shows the proper orientation.


----------



## loomisjohnson (Jul 28, 2017)

Francisk said:


> I just received my ZS3 today and I'm totally disappointed with the sound (with stock silicone tips) after having good experience with both good sounding ZST and ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips...I'm surprised with some that claimed the bass didn't bleed into the mids...they're bleeding all over...and where's the highs??? All i hear is wooly bass without any definition. After doing the Slater mod (removing the red and black foam filter), the highs and mids improved a tiny bit but the bass is still over powering everything else in the frequency spectrum. ZS3 is definitely not my definition of a good sounding IEM at whatever cost, even at $5. ZS3 is definitely a basshead's dream come true but it's a total nightmare for me. It's a real pity though because the ZS3 doesn't look like a cheap IEM but it sure sounds cheap. I wish those who claim that it sounds better than the ZST and ZS5 good luck...I'm getting really dizzy listening to it  I wouldn't even dare to give it to my wife or she'll give me that stare and stop making dinner for a month


i had the same initial reaction but upgraded my rating after switiching to complys, which markedly tamed that big bass--the zs3 is very, very tip-and-fit dependent, but once you get it right its low end actually has equivalent control to the zs5. they still don't have the balance or high end detail of the zst or zs5, but some well-respected folks around here prefer the zs3 tuning.


----------



## groucho69

Envinite said:


> Yeah, I don't want to risk buying these not-so-universal $8 2-pins connector and hope for a matching fit, so I decided to open up the connector from stock cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool


----------



## groucho69

Sylmar said:


> Personally I didn't encounter any microphonics after removing the memory wire. Helped big time, also in comfort.



Same here (and hear).


----------



## HungryPanda

That's exactly what I did thanks slaterlovesspam


----------



## peskypesky

Francisk said:


> I just received my ZS3 today and I'm totally disappointed with the sound (with stock silicone tips) after having good experience with both good sounding ZST and ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips...I'm surprised with some that claimed the bass didn't bleed into the mids...they're bleeding all over...and where's the highs??? All i hear is wooly bass without any definition. After doing the Slater mod (removing the red and black foam filter), the highs and mids improved a tiny bit but the bass is still over powering everything else in the frequency spectrum. ZS3 is definitely not my definition of a good sounding IEM at whatever cost, even at $5. ZS3 is definitely a basshead's dream come true but it's a total nightmare for me. It's a real pity though because the ZS3 doesn't look like a cheap IEM but it sure sounds cheap. I wish those who claim that it sounds better than the ZST and ZS5 good luck...I'm getting really dizzy listening to it  I wouldn't even dare to give it to my wife or she'll give me that stare and stop making dinner for a month



sounds like you got a defective pair


----------



## mono-type

loomisjohnson said:


> i had the same initial reaction but upgraded my rating after switiching to complys, which markedly tamed that big bass--*the zs3 is very, very tip-and-fit dependent*, but once you get it right its low end actually has equivalent control to the zs5. they still don't have the balance or high end detail of the zst or zs5, but some well-respected folks around here prefer the zs3 tuning.


Bolded that statement for emphasis. I couldn't agree more on that, based on my own experience.


----------



## Francisk

loomisjohnson said:


> i had the same initial reaction but upgraded my rating after switiching to complys, which markedly tamed that big bass--the zs3 is very, very tip-and-fit dependent, but once you get it right its low end actually has equivalent control to the zs5. they still don't have the balance or high end detail of the zst or zs5, but some well-respected folks around here prefer the zs3 tuning.


Tried it with the Comply T400 tips and the only way I can describe the sound is that the dark sound gets even more darker with clouds of bass all over. I've come to my final conclusion...ZS3 is definitely not for me.


----------



## Francisk

peskypesky said:


> sounds like you got a defective pair


I'm not sure about that peskypesky. I have a friend who also purchased the ZS3 a week after I purchased mine but he hasn't received his yet. I'll recheck again with his ZS3 when it arrives and report back.


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## Viber (Jul 28, 2017)

Francisk said:


> I just received my ZS3 today and I'm totally disappointed with the sound (with stock silicone tips) after having good experience with both good sounding ZST and ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips...I'm surprised with some that claimed the bass didn't bleed into the mids...they're bleeding all over...and where's the highs??? All i hear is wooly bass without any definition. After doing the Slater mod (removing the red and black foam filter), the highs and mids improved a tiny bit but the bass is still over powering everything else in the frequency spectrum. ZS3 is definitely not my definition of a good sounding IEM at whatever cost, even at $5. ZS3 is definitely a basshead's dream come true but it's a total nightmare for me. It's a real pity though because the ZS3 doesn't look like a cheap IEM but it sure sounds cheap. I wish those who claim that it sounds better than the ZST and ZS5 good luck...I'm getting really dizzy listening to it  I wouldn't even dare to give it to my wife or she'll give me that stare and stop making dinner for a month



4 options:
1.You need to try short foam tips.  The ZS3 can create a '"vacume" effect with some tips (i dont know how to describe it in English).
2.Your source is not good enough for the ZS3.
3.You connected the wire the wrong way.
4.You got a bad pair.

That's it, there's no fifth option in which the ZS3 are bad or bass monsters or anything like that.  These are one of the best Chi-Fi earphones i have. When they are in my ears i sometimes think that they sound like 50$ iems.


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## Francisk (Jul 28, 2017)

Viber said:


> 4 options:
> 1.You need to try short foam tips.  The ZS3 can create a '"vacume" effect with some tips (i dont know how to describe it in English).
> 2.Your source is not good enough for the ZS3.
> 3.You connected the wire the wrong way.
> ...


Surprisingly the ZS3 fits very well in my ear and the isolation is great but that's the only compliment I could give. I even tried the 1 size smaller tips to tame the bass (vacuum effect is definitely not it) but the bass is still unacceptable. I know how good bass should sound like but ZS3's bass is certainly not it. My source is the Cayin N3 and iBasso DX90 paired with my Chord Mojo playing back flac files so bad source is definitely not it. I'm in the audio business and I happen to be the one who points out the solution for those who received the "out of phase" ZS5 so that's definitely not it as well. As for a faulty pair of ZS3, I'll definitely verify with my friend who will be receiving his ZS3 soon. Trust me, I'm trying very hard to like the ZS3 after having such a wonderful experience with both ZST and ZS5 plus the amount of good reviews many KZ fans have given it...but...I just can't enjoy the lumpy bass of the ZS3.


----------



## Sylmar

Francisk said:


> Surprisingly the ZS3 fits very well in my ear and the isolation is great but that's the only compliment I could give. I even tried the 1 size smaller tips to tame the bass (vacuum effect is definitely not it) but the bass is still unacceptable. I know how good bass should sound like but ZS3's bass is certainly not it. My source is the Cayin N3 and iBasso DX90 paired with my Chord Mojo playing back flac files so bad source is definitely not it. I'm in the audio business and I happen to be the one who points out the solution for those who received the "out of phase" ZS5 so that's definitely not it as well. As for a faulty pair of ZS3, I'll definitely verify with my friend who will be receiving his ZS3 soon. Trust me, I'm trying very hard to like the ZS3 after having such a wonderful experience with both ZST and ZS5 plus the amount of good reviews many KZ fans have given it...but...I just can't enjoy the lumpy bass of the ZS3.



Just an idea. When I played around with my ZS3 it seemed that I really liked it with low sources of amps. You might give it a try with less amping and see what that brings. Then again it may have been my imagination but when I use it with my rockboxed Clip Zip without any further amping is sounds the way I like it.


----------



## Viber

Francisk said:


> Surprisingly the ZS3 fits very well in my ear and the isolation is great but that's the only compliment I could give. I even tried the 1 size smaller tips to tame the bass (vacuum effect is definitely not it) but the bass is still unacceptable. I know how good bass should sound like but ZS3's bass is certainly not it. My source is the Cayin N3 and iBasso DX90 paired with my Chord Mojo playing back flac files so bad source is definitely not it. I'm in the audio business and I happen to be the one who points out the solution for those who received the "out of phase" ZS5 so that's definitely not it as well. As for a faulty pair of ZS3, I'll definitely verify with my friend who will be receiving his ZS3 soon. Trust me, I'm trying very hard to like the ZS3 after having such a wonderful experience with both ZST and ZS5 plus the amount of good reviews many KZ fans have given it...but...I just can't enjoy the lumpy bass of the ZS3.



That's very odd.
I have a picky ear too. I don't think any Chi-Fi sounds that good and the color of sound on the ZS3 is not my cup of tea  , but your impressions are like a super exaggerated list of their shortcomings.  
To me, the ZS3 are not even that bassy. They are more warm than bassy.

They can actually play metal music, almost no chi-fi can handle electric guitars.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> i had the same initial reaction but upgraded my rating after switiching to complys, which markedly tamed that big bass--the zs3 is very, very tip-and-fit dependent, but once you get it right its low end actually has equivalent control to the zs5. they still don't have the balance or high end detail of the zst or zs5, but some well-respected folks around here prefer the zs3 tuning.



It's also very very source dependant. Many make it sound like crap. Some make it sound excellent.


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## Slater

Viber said:


> That's very odd.
> I have a picky ear too. I don't think any Chi-Fi sounds that good and the color of sound on the ZS3 is not my cup of tea  , but your impressions are like a super exaggerated list of their shortcomings.
> To me, the ZS3 are not even that bassy. They are more warm than bassy.
> 
> They can actually play metal music, almost no chi-fi can handle electric guitars.



Agree with the metal statement. ZS3 sound great with metal and rock (Van Halen for example).


----------



## Francisk

Sylmar said:


> Just an idea. When I played around with my ZS3 it seemed that I really liked it with low sources of amps. You might give it a try with less amping and see what that brings. Then again it may have been my imagination but when I use it with my rockboxed Clip Zip without any further amping is sounds the way I like it.


I've tried the ZS3 on different sources, even from weak sources without amp and it sounds even worse.


----------



## Hitesh

Negakinu said:


> The microphonics on the stock cable were borderline unbearable for me, because I use them mainly when I'm doing stuff outside and moving around. I ordered the silver replacement cable in the hope to get rid of the cable noise. I love the IEMs though. They sound a hell of a lot more expensive than they are.



Oh well this confirms it I guess. 
Have you received the silver cables ? Any decrease in microphonics ? These are the cables, right ?




Sylmar said:


> Personally I didn't encounter any microphonics after removing the memory wire. Helped big time, also in comfort.



 I had to google what memory wire. So it's like a plastic tube meant to protect the twisting cables ? How did you remove it ? Is it safe ? Can it be put back ? So many questions lol


----------



## Francisk

Viber said:


> That's very odd.
> I have a picky ear too. I don't think any Chi-Fi sounds that good and the color of sound on the ZS3 is not my cup of tea  , but your impressions are like a super exaggerated list of their shortcomings.
> To me, the ZS3 are not even that bassy. They are more warm than bassy.
> 
> They can actually play metal music, almost no chi-fi can handle electric guitars.


My impression of the ZS3 is honestly how I hear it and I for one don't like to exaggerate my opinion. If there's anything that's exaggerating, it's definitely the ZS3 bass and if you think that ZS3 is not that bassy then I really have doubt in your hearing.


----------



## YCHANGE

OOTB the ZST sounded a great match with my Cowon PM2 and the ZS5 also continues the trend.  The ZS5 just sounds efortless across genres.  ZST excels at a close yet clear type of sound while ZS5 has more depth,  fullness, and extension.


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## Viber

Francisk said:


> My impression of the ZS3 is honestly how I hear it and I for one don't like to exaggerate my opinion. If there's anything that's exaggerating, it's definitely the ZS3 bass and if you think that ZS3 is not that bassy then I really have doubt in your hearing.



HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY HEARING?!?!

lol just kidding...

The bass is elevated, i'll agree with that, but it doesn't take over the entire spectrum like you are suggesting. 
When I hear a song, i hear all the instruments,the imaging is very good, i can enjoy electric guitars, the isolation is top notch... What more should i expect from sub 50$ Chi-Fi,really? should i analyze live Classical concerts in 24/96 with these?  

You can write down a song or two which suffer from these bass symptoms so i can check it out.


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## nihontoman

ok, the one song I can remember sounded pretty bad with ZS3 and pretty good is this one:



as for the microphonics on the sock cable on zs5, yeah it is their and pretty noticeable..


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## Sylmar

Francisk said:


> I've tried the ZS3 on different sources, even from weak sources without amp and it sounds even worse.



Shame they don't work out for you. At least they are not expensive and you didn't throw out a lot of money. 



Hitesh said:


> I had to google what memory wire. So it's like a plastic tube meant to protect the twisting cables ? How did you remove it ? Is it safe ? Can it be put back ? So many questions lol



The memory wire is the metal strip housed in the plastic tubing close to the connectors leading to the IEMS. It is used to keep the wire in a certain position around your ear. You can remove it by finding the end of it and pierce the tubing where the strip ends. You can then just pull the wire from the cable towards the connectors. Then gently pull them out of the connectors (I used pliers) and remove the remaining tube from the cable. 
Once you have located the metal wire it is pretty easy to do.


----------



## vladstef

So, when I first got my ZS5 I noticed that stock cable sounded much better than silver one and didn't even bother to experiment until today. I was confused because the difference was immense. So I started plugging cables one way or the other and it turns out that silver cable has polarity issues. The best and only normal result was plugging one side normally and other side by reversing the cable so that the L/R letter faces towards the head and not away from the head. The thing that bothers me is that I can't hear a clear difference when choosing which side to plug in differently, I get pretty much the same result regardless of the side. One way is obviously the right way and the other makes them both have reversed polarity. I find it hard to believe that "upgrade" cable has this kind of problem, what are the chances that stock cable actually has polarity issues and inside wiring of one of the ZS5s is also wired in a wrong way so that it cancels it out (I'd say none)?


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## IamMe90

vladstef said:


> So, when I first got my ZS5 I noticed that stock cable sounded much better than silver one and didn't even bother to experiment until today. I was confused because the difference was immense. So I started plugging cables one way or the other and it turns out that silver cable has polarity issues. The best and only normal result was plugging one side normally and other side by reversing the cable so that the L/R letter faces towards the head and not away from the head. The thing that bothers me is that I can't hear a clear difference when choosing which side to plug in differently, I get pretty much the same result regardless of the side. One way is obviously the right way and the other makes them both have reversed polarity. I find it hard to believe that "upgrade" cable has this kind of problem, what are the chances that stock cable actually has polarity issues and inside wiring of one of the ZS5s is also wired in a wrong way so that it cancels it out (I'd say none)?



Well, I had the same problem with the silver cable (although I hadn't resolved it yet-I thought I tried all the combinations, but I was also a few beers deep, so maybe I effed it up lol! I'll have to try again), but the stock cable sounds fine the way it is. I even made a post about it here a couple days ago. But not everyone seemed to agree with me - maybe we just got unlucky with our cables? Or maybe we just got REALLY unlucky and our ZS5s are wired the wrong way per your probably-implausible theory? Lol I dunno man


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## vladstef (Jul 29, 2017)

IamMe90 said:


> Well, I had the same problem with the silver cable (although I hadn't resolved it yet-I thought I tried all the combinations, but I was also a few beers deep, so maybe I effed it up lol! I'll have to try again), but the stock cable sounds fine the way it is. I even made a post about it here a couple days ago. But not everyone seemed to agree with me - maybe we just got unlucky with our cables? Or maybe we just got REALLY unlucky and our ZS5s are wired the wrong way per your probably-implausible theory? Lol I dunno man


I am pretty much sure it's just the silver cable, the simplest explanation is the right one. I tried as much as I could to isolate which side of the cable is reversed, but this is difficult as either of the options sounds correct to me and if I'd had to choose one that is wrong, it would be left. Try to plug left one reversed and right one normally with the silver cable. I can hear some improvements to the sound in the upper frequencies compared to regular cable (maybe less dynamic overall), and I truly wanted to hate this cable and not use it, so I am not biased towards it in that way. It's definitely only worth for the looks/durability, otherwise, I would never get it for sound. Perhaps it has slightly different impedance compared to stock cable and it manifests with ZS5s which are already very source sensitive and require more power than expected.


----------



## themindfreak

Francisk said:


> My impression of the ZS3 is honestly how I hear it and I for one don't like to exaggerate my opinion. If there's anything that's exaggerating, it's definitely the ZS3 bass and if you think that ZS3 is not that bassy then I really have doubt in your hearing.


I used to own ZS3 too. I do agree that it is too bassy or rather too warm for my liking and it seems most people here actually like it quite alot. To me it muddies the mids thats for sure but some people here actually like its musicality. The main selling point about the ZS3 is its musicality. Even though there is so much bass and weak mids and highs, its musicality forgives the rest of the spectrum. Although I have to admit I didnt like the ZS3 myself and sold it off. Btw if you dont like the ZS3 I don't suggest trying the Fonge T01 earphones from Vidal's website. They are basically the exact same signature just that the Fonge T01 may just have slighly more engaging vocals.


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## ridwan47 (Jul 29, 2017)

Do I need to burn in ZS5? If so, how do I do it? How long? Suggest me some tracks.


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## Francisk

Viber said:


> HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY HEARING?!?!
> 
> lol just kidding...
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you on the fantastic isolation of the ZS3 but I'm afraid I have to differ on the sound quality. The elevated level of bass of the ZS3 is just too much for me. In fact I have to use a one size smaller Comply T400 on the ZS5 to tame it's bass and smooth out the high peaks. To me, the ZS5's bass level is already a bit over the top for me that's why I prefer the bass response of the ZST. Using the Comply T400 tips cuts out too much highs on the ZS3  even after the Slater mod so that wasn't a solution for me. It doesn't matter what tracks I throw at the ZS3 because it all sounds bad to my ears. My friend's ZS3 should be arriving soon and I shall check his unit just to make sure if my ZS3 is faulty. Until then, my opinion of the ZS3 still remain unfavorable unfortunately.


----------



## Francisk

Sylmar said:


> Shame they don't work out for you. At least they are not expensive and you didn't throw out a lot of money.


Yes, I totally agree with you that the price of the ZS3 is not an issue and no serious loss here. I was just underwhelmed by it's sound after hearing all the high praises by many here.


----------



## Sylmar

ridwan47 said:


> Do I need to burn in ZS5? If so, how do I do it? How long? Suggest me some tracks.



In my personal view they are immediately enjoyable out of the box. I didn't burn them in.


----------



## nihontoman

ridwan47 said:


> Do I need to burn in ZS5? If so, how do I do it? How long? Suggest me some tracks.


not sure there will be a difference. you could try, certainly won't do anything bad to it


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## IamMe90 (Jul 29, 2017)

So I've got:

-Spiral dot, spinfit, and the starline ear tips;
-AK Jr,  fiio x3ii, and Samsung galaxy s6 as source options (try to avoid using the x3 though since it glitches up all the time a need is  out of warranty) ;
-and a fiio e12 for external amp.

I've been  playing around with figuring out the best sounding combinations for my zs5. So far, I'm enjoying unamped AK Jr with spin fit tips the most. Sounds awesome  for some reason the spiral dots really don't seem to work well on the zs line to me (both 5 and t). The small star line tips make the zst sound great but muddy up the sound of the 5 a bit. Weird how the same tips can have such different effects on different IEMs lol

EDIT:


vladstef said:


> I am pretty much sure it's just the silver cable, the simplest explanation is the right one. I tried as much as I could to isolate which side of the cable is reversed, but this is difficult as either of the options sounds correct to me and if I'd had to choose one that is wrong, it would be left. Try to plug left one reversed and right one normally with the silver cable. I can hear some improvements to the sound in the upper frequencies compared to regular cable (maybe less dynamic overall), and I truly wanted to hate this cable and not use it, so I am not biased towards it in that way. It's definitely only worth for the looks/durability, otherwise, I would never get it for sound. Perhaps it has slightly different impedance compared to stock cable and it manifests with ZS5s which are already very source sensitive and require more power than expected.



Okay, sober me reversed the polarity like you suggested and yeah, it works fine now! Using it with my ZST currently (will test with ZS5 in a bit), not sure I notice much of a difference other than perhaps a bit more clarity in the highs, like you mention. But glad it's not a total piece of garbage like I initially thought lol


----------



## -rowan-

All right, I've had some time with my ZS5 now, so a couple of impressions relative to the others in the family.

Coming from the ZST, the first thing I noticed was that the sketchy ZST midrange has been nicely filled out in the ZS5. Richer, warmer, but as detailed. (It is also more present than the ZS3's mids, but that is not saying much.)

Mid bass is not the ZS5's best feature, but to its credit, the engineers were rather economical with it. You wouldn't notice it unless you were looking out for it.

This is made up for by shall we say a rather enthusiastic sub bass, one that the ZST could only allude to. The ZS5's bass is by no means the fastest, tightest or most detailed, but it punches well above its weight for its price and is undeniably great fun. Anyone who likes the ZS3 for that big boomy slab of bass would do well to check out how the ZS5 does it.

I also love me some treble, and the treble in the ZS5 is well-extended and non-fatiguing with little sibilance. If I had to nitpick I'd say that the attack isn't always there e.g. cymbals don't get hit, they just _happen_.

The ZS5 has a wider soundstage and better separation than its two siblings as well. There's a real sense of airiness in these that the other two didn't have. 

Now I find that coherence is often the downfall of otherwise competent hybrid IEMs (Dunu DN-1000, I'm looking at you) and the ZST seems to manage this rather well until somewhere near the sub bass region where it comes unstuck and the dynamic driver takes on a noticeably different quality from its quite dry upper range. I suspect the ZS5 has made good use of its two dynamic drivers. 

Isolation - not great, but if I wanted isolation I'd stick with my ER4XRs. I was after something that might give me an actual chance of hearing a bus before walking under it (or at least something that might be more cheaply replaced after said bus has been over it) and the ZS5 is it.

Stock tips didn't work for me. I use Grado/Ortofon silicone tips with all of them (ignoring the fact that a packet of them costs more than my ZS5). Cable is abjectly microphonic as with the other KZs. I swapped it out for the KZ silver cable, which doesn't do so much to improve the sound as it does to reduce microphonics to a more tolerable level.

As should be obvious by now, I'm one of the (apparent) minority who prefers the ZST to the ZS3, simply because I need some clarity or semblance thereof in my music and favour fast, tight and well-extended bass over gobs of it bleeding everywhere. 

However, I will say that the one aspect of the ZS3 that has yet to be surpassed is its comfort. The shameless copying is a turn-off, frankly, but if KZ _must_ rip off the designs of fancy IEMs, they may as well stick with the most comfortable one...


----------



## vladstef (Jul 29, 2017)

IamMe90 said:


> Okay, sober me reversed the polarity like you suggested and yeah, it works fine now! Using it with my ZST currently (will test with ZS5 in a bit), not sure I notice much of a difference other than perhaps a bit more clarity in the highs, like you mention. But glad it's not a total piece of garbage like I initially thought lol


Glad that it is cable after all. Silver cable already wouldn't connect properly, there is a slight mismatch with the casing of the ZS5 and I would never push it to a point where I could damage the casing around cable connector. It is shaped properly but it won't enter as deep as it should, and this is still a problem for one of the sides, the other one where I'll have to reverse the cable is a whole different kind of problem. I am thinking of sanding end part of the left side of the cable so that the plastic around pins doesn't present a problem anymore. All of this is important for me (and pretty much anyone really) because sometimes I remove earphones and put them around my neck while not using them and this is exactly where I could lose them if they are not well connected to the cables... Does anyone have a proper solution for this? I know people have had similar kind of problems before.

I experimented with sine gen. and removed the peaks, approximately, @3.4k and 10.6k, also a very small one @6.5k (this will obviously vary for everyone). They became so smooth and pleasant, I actually added a little bit of warmth to the treble after all was done, I think they improved quite a bit, maybe go as far and say even a whole new class of sound quality, and the starting point was already good. I hope someone with a bit more experience with peak removals could confirm that they improve this much.


----------



## khighly

Does anybody have a problem with the starlines falling off the tubes of the ZS5's constantly? I've never lost so many ear tips. I've cleaned them with alcohol twice.


----------



## Slater

themindfreak said:


> I used to own ZS3 too. I do agree that it is too bassy or rather too warm for my liking and it seems most people here actually like it quite alot. To me it muddies the mids thats for sure but some people here actually like its musicality. The main selling point about the ZS3 is its musicality. Even though there is so much bass and weak mids and highs, its musicality forgives the rest of the spectrum. Although I have to admit I didnt like the ZS3 myself and sold it off. Btw if you dont like the ZS3 I don't suggest trying the Fonge T01 earphones from Vidal's website. They are basically the exact same signature just that the Fonge T01 may just have slighly more engaging vocals.



I was very unimpressed by the sound of the Fonge T01. Then on the 3rd time using them the wire strain relief ripped right out of the IEM shell on 1 side. I shoved it back in, but the only thing holding it in is a prayer. I'll probably just end up turning it into a cat toy.

The MoreBlue DM8 smokes the Fonge, and the DM8 is $3. Better sound, half the price.


----------



## Griffith

I've been meaning to try out Spinfits to deal with some fitting issues that my ZST have and that I suspect the ZS5 will also have in return. What size of them should I acquire? The CP100? Does anyone know which size would fit them best?


----------



## Griffith

khighly said:


> Does anybody have a problem with the starlines falling off the tubes of the ZS5's constantly? I've never lost so many ear tips. I've cleaned them with alcohol twice.



Not with mine. they haven't fallen off once in neither of my ZST.


----------



## Viber

Francisk said:


> I have to agree with you on the fantastic isolation of the ZS3 but I'm afraid I have to differ on the sound quality. The elevated level of bass of the ZS3 is just too much for me. In fact I have to use a one size smaller Comply T400 on the ZS5 to tame it's bass and smooth out the high peaks. To me, the ZS5's bass level is already a bit over the top for me that's why I prefer the bass response of the ZST. Using the Comply T400 tips cuts out too much highs on the ZS3  even after the Slater mod so that wasn't a solution for me. It doesn't matter what tracks I throw at the ZS3 because it all sounds bad to my ears. My friend's ZS3 should be arriving soon and I shall check his unit just to make sure if my ZS3 is faulty. Until then, my opinion of the ZS3 still remain unfavorable unfortunately.



I'm sorry for your disappointment.
I actually believe we all have different ears, so maybe there's no "one size fits all" in IEMs. 

If you read some of my reviews then you'll know i have no problem with bashing earphones i don't like, i just think the ZS3 sounds pretty good when connected to my Dac/Amp.  Maybe you can design an EQ preset for your liking?

I find some parallels between the impressions of both the ZS3 and the Havi B3.  Half of the owners of both sets hate them for being muffley and boring and the other half loves them.   Maybe it's just your luck with your source\uneven production consistency from the factory.


----------



## W.Peter

Another ZS5 review I found.


----------



## W.Peter

Not sure either, from what I found, ks5 stock inner ear tips size 4mm. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ne-Silicone-Eartips/32724406344.html?spm=2114


Griffith said:


> I've been meaning to try out Spinfits to deal with some fitting issues that my ZST have and that I suspect the ZS5 will also have in return. What size of them should I acquire? The CP100? Does anyone know which size would fit them best?


And Spinfit has size 3mm and 5mm.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SpinFit-CP100-In-ear-Earphones-Eartip/32746754938.html?spm=2114


----------



## Griffith

W.Peter said:


> Not sure either, from what I found, ks5 stock inner ear tips size 4mm. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ne-Silicone-Eartips/32724406344.html?spm=2114
> 
> And Spinfit has size 3mm and 5mm.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SpinFit-CP100-In-ear-Earphones-Eartip/32746754938.html?spm=2114



That's precisely my conundrum. I don't know which would be best.


----------



## toddy0191 (Jul 30, 2017)

khighly said:


> Does anybody have a problem with the starlines falling off the tubes of the ZS5's constantly? I've never lost so many ear tips. I've cleaned them with alcohol twice.



They're a PITA. I keep losing them in my ear!

On another pair I've added a smalll ring cut off the end of the inner part of another tip and stretched the other tip over this on the ZS5 and they won't budge now.

Getting the new tip over the nozzle with this ring on is a feat in itself mind!


----------



## snip3r77

toddy0191 said:


> They're a PITA. I keep losing them in my ear!
> 
> On another pair I've added a smalll ring cut off the end of the inner part of another tip and stretched the other tip over this on the ZS5 and they won't budge now.
> 
> Getting the new tip over the nozzle with this ring on is a feat in itself mind!



I think just glue it shut


----------



## young59

Anyone here received the KZ ZSE yet how are the compared to the ZS5 .I currently own the ZS3 . I want to know weather should I spend more and get the ZS5.


----------



## Saoshyant

If someone gets the ZSE in, they'll let us know


----------



## -rowan-

W.Peter said:


> Not sure either, from what I found, ks5 stock inner ear tips size 4mm. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ne-Silicone-Eartips/32724406344.html?spm=2114
> 
> And Spinfit has size 3mm and 5mm.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SpinFit-CP100-In-ear-Earphones-Eartip/32746754938.html?spm=2114



I am not a big fan of Spinfits but I have them in both sizes and the CP100 is a perfect fit for the entire ZS range: 


 

(FYI the CP800 is for small-bore IEMs like Westones and Shures and Etys.)


----------



## Francisk

young59 said:


> Anyone here received the KZ ZSE yet how are the compared to the ZS5 .I currently own the ZS3 . I want to know weather should I spend more and get the ZS5.


I think you'll be doing yourself a great favor to upgrade to the ZS5. I received my ZS3 after owning the ZST + ZS5 due to many rave reviews of it and was truly disappointed. I just can't enjoy the ZS3 due to it's overly accentuated bass response. I tried the Slater mod but it still doesn't help so I'm back to my ZST and ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 foam tips.


----------



## snip3r77

-rowan- said:


> I am not a big fan of Spinfits but I have them in both sizes and the CP100 is a perfect fit for the entire ZS range:
> 
> 
> 
> (FYI the CP800 is for small-bore IEMs like Westones and Shures and Etys.)


What size you use for KZ Stars and what size did you use for Spinfits?


----------



## young59

Francisk said:


> I think you'll be doing yourself a great favor to upgrade to the ZS5. I received my ZS3 after owning the ZST + ZS5 due to many rave reviews of it and was truly disappointed. I just can't enjoy the ZS3 due to it's overly accentuated bass response. I tried the Slater mod but it still doesn't help so I'm back to my ZST and ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 foam tips.


Yeah I also feel the bass of the ZS3 is a bit much at times.I am now waiting to see the response of the ZSE and decide then.Thanks


----------



## -rowan- (Jul 30, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> What size you use for KZ Stars and what size did you use for Spinfits?



I don't use KZ stars lol. They are too stiff to create a decent seal in my ears.

That tip up there is a yellow core Spinfit, i.e. CP100, large. I also take a large in Grado, Comply and most other tips I've tried, and I find that Spinfits are quite true to size i.e. they are mos def not extra large for instance.

That said, I have ear canals you could park a bus in, so I usually just start with the largest tips and work my way down. Ymmv.


----------



## Griffith

-rowan- said:


> I am not a big fan of Spinfits but I have them in both sizes and the CP100 is a perfect fit for the entire ZS range:
> 
> 
> 
> (FYI the CP800 is for small-bore IEMs like Westones and Shures and Etys.)



Thank you. I happen to have various different IEMs with different nozzle widths so I decided to order both. The Tennmak Pro will probably fit the CP800 fine and I use and enjoy those very often.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Picked up the ZS5 and its bluetooth cable.  $18.19 for the zs5, $7.45 for the cable.

Now time to wait for the slow boat to get here....


----------



## CYoung234

slaterlovesspam said:


> I got my silver cables from ebay for $4 shipped. You are talking about the genuine KZ branded ones and not a 3rd party one correct?



Do you have a link for the $4 cable that you bought on eBay? I cannot find any there right now.


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> Do you have a link for the $4 cable that you bought on eBay? I cannot find any there right now.



It was months ago. The seller had 10 or 12 at that price, and I got one of the last ones. Just keep searching around - I see them from time to time for $5ish.


----------



## CYoung234

slaterlovesspam said:


> It was months ago. The seller had 10 or 12 at that price, and I got one of the last ones. Just keep searching around - I see them from time to time for $5ish.



Right now I see this one:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS3-Cable-...%3A95dcc3aa15d0ab130c6fcb9afffd871e%7Ciid%3A4

Or this one:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS3-Headse...%3A95dcc3aa15d0ab130c6fcb9afffd871e%7Ciid%3A7

The first one is from a seller I have bought from before, and it looks like you can get it with or without microphone. The second one looks like what I was expecting to see. Opinions?


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> Right now I see this one:
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS3-Cable-2pin-0-75-mm-2-6M-Upgraded-Silver-Plated-Cable-Earphone-Replacement-/253003292466?var=&hash=item3ae82bdf32mkZo99eJ6DizFyKX0DzmSPQ&_trkparms=pageci%3A13222d3b-7580-11e7-8e3a-74dbd1808c3f%7Cparentrq%3A95dcc3aa15d0ab130c6fcb9afffd871e%7Ciid%3A4
> 
> ...



Hmmm, that's kind of odd. I wasn't aware that any of the (genuine) KZ silver upgrade cables came with mic. So I'm not sure what's up with that 1st link. It looks like they are just selling the stock ZS3 cable.

I've bought from that second seller before (mango-fly). For the cable I got from that seller, I paid $5.20 on 5-07-17 (was probably on sale from the seller).

If it was me, I'd go for that. Or you can wait for the 11.11 sale on Aliexpress, most items are stupid cheap and you can pick one up then.


----------



## CYoung234

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hmmm, that's kind of odd. I wasn't aware that any of the (genuine) KZ silver upgrade cables came with mic. So I'm not sure what's up with that 1st link. It looks like they are just selling the stock ZS3 cable.
> 
> I've bought from that second seller before (mango-fly). For the cable I got from that seller, I paid $5.20 on 5-07-17 (was probably on sale from the seller).
> 
> If it was me, I'd go for that. Or you can wait for the 11.11 sale on Aliexpress, most items are stupid cheap and you can pick one up then.



Okay, thank you. I have never been able to get my credit card to register on Aliexpress, so I can only buy there if the seller takes PayPal. Most of the sellers I have contacted do not...


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> Okay, thank you. I have never been able to get my credit card to register on Aliexpress, so I can only buy there if the seller takes PayPal. Most of the sellers I have contacted do not...



That's weird. Do you know if your CC has a block on international purchases (I added one to my debit cards to prevent fraud)? Or if there's some sort of temporary security block going on with your CC that you don't know about? Perhaps call your CC company.


----------



## CYoung234

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's weird. Do you know if your CC has a block on international purchases (I added one to my debit cards to prevent fraud)? Or if there's some sort of temporary security block going on with your CC that you don't know about? Perhaps call your CC company.



Thanks. I may do that, but it has not been that important. Keeping things this way will probably save me some money on purchases anyhow! I am American, but am doing volunteer work in Paraguay. That may have something to do with not being able to get the CC to register right. It is a U.S. card.


----------



## Aevum

has anyone done a clear comparison of the ZS5 with the normal cable, silver cable and BT cable  ?

not sure why but the bluetooth cable sounds like the sound is a bit more artificial and has some artifacting compared to when its wired.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

CYoung234 said:


> Thanks. I may do that, but it has not been that important. Keeping things this way will probably save me some money on purchases anyhow! I am American, but am doing volunteer work in Paraguay. That may have something to do with not being able to get the CC to register right. It is a U.S. card.



The ZS3 silver cable has always been a wee bit more expensive than the ZST cable for some reason.

I did find a *ZST *cable for a smidgen under $5: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgrade-Ear...-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ-ZST-Silver-/382134094663?

Honestly the difference in price is so small - 0.50 or so - that I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## colgateam (Jul 31, 2017)

Only reason I changed the cable was so I could remove the stupid stiff one, modify a 'silver' one and heatgun it to mold to the shape I wanted.  So much more comfortable


----------



## ricemanhk

I tried using UHU glue to stick the tips onto the ZS5 nozzle but it's not sticking that well...or perhaps I need to use more glue or even super glue?  But yeah I concur the tips have fallen off at least 10 times for me by now and that's the worse for me by far.  Before I think I've only lost the tips once or twice at most.


----------



## CYoung234

SomeTechNoob said:


> The ZS3 silver cable has always been a wee bit more expensive than the ZST cable for some reason.
> 
> I did find a *ZST *cable for a smidgen under $5: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgrade-Ear...-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ-ZST-Silver-/382134094663?
> 
> Honestly the difference in price is so small - 0.50 or so - that I wouldn't worry about it.



I agree. I already ordered one from eBay. The ZST cables do not really fit for the ZS5 due to the right angle connector and the connector housing not docking far enough into the ZS5 housing. It will work, sort of, but the cables would fall off. How do I know this? Because I bought one by mistake! Haha...


----------



## eaglesgift

Does anyone know if it is possible to buy the silicone tips that come with the ED9 separately? I've found the large ones to be the best fit for me with the ZS5 and would really like to get hold of some more.


----------



## Griffith

Aevum said:


> has anyone done a clear comparison of the ZS5 with the normal cable, silver cable and BT cable  ?
> 
> not sure why but the bluetooth cable sounds like the sound is a bit more artificial and has some artifacting compared to when its wired.



Well of course it would, the Bluetooth receiver applies some heavy compression to the audio signal. You can't compare the Bluetooth receiver directly with the wired cable because inherently it will be worse.

As for the normal/silver cable, there have been some heated debates on this thread about whether or not there is any difference. I have two pairs of ZST and I own both the normal and the silver cable so I was able to test them back to back. In my experience, the silver cable slightly attenuated the ZST's high frequencies but also seems to require slightly more power to drive. It is a better constructed cable and is more comfortable to wear than the default cable, and most of the cable's benefits come from that, not from any sound quality improvement.

Again, some people will say you get no benefit at all in terms of sound quality. In my experience, there will be a very small variation from the standard cable but it is very hard to tell unless you're able to quickly exchange between two units with the two cables back to back. If you find the default cable uncomfortable then it might be a worthwhile investment but if not, feel free to just stick with the default one.


----------



## Griffith

eaglesgift said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to buy the silicone tips that come with the ED9 separately? I've found the large ones to be the best fit for me with the ZS5 and would really like to get hold of some more.



Do you mean these ones? KZ tips


----------



## eaglesgift

Griffith said:


> Do you mean these ones? KZ tips


Yes, thanks very much. Those look like the ones.


----------



## groucho69

colgateam said:


> Only reason I changed the cable was so I could remove the stupid stiff one, modify a 'silver' one and heatgun it to mold to the shape I wanted.  So much more comfortable



Or just remove the wire from the standard cable.


----------



## snip3r77

Griffith said:


> Do you mean these ones? KZ tips



Take note the inner diameter , it's one mm larger ( kz5 )


----------



## Griffith (Jul 31, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Take note the inner diameter , it's one mm larger ( kz5 )



I'm fairly certain they would fit the ZS5.



colgateam said:


> Only reason I changed the cable was so I could remove the stupid stiff one, modify a 'silver' one and heatgun it to mold to the shape I wanted.  So much more comfortable



That cable looks pretty sweet in that color. Where did you get it, or how did you make it that color?


----------



## Damikiller37

Hey I've received my KZ ZS5 the other and I couldn't thank this thread enough! I've been using my Betron YSM1000 (which appear to be a rebrand/clone of the KZ ED) for over a year now until the microphone part started to fall apart on me and resulted in a constant low volume hiss. I've ordered the KZ ZS5 from GearBest during one of their deals for £14.67 (I paid £16.46 with Priority Line shipping) and they arrived 10 days after the order. I also ordered the KZ Storage box on Ebay along with some memory foam eartips (both took about a week to arrive). First time owning an over-ear IEM and I'm so glad I got these.

I've always had an issue with having earbuds stay in my ears especially when walking no matter what eartips I had and these solve that. I read that a fair amount of people don't think the ZS5s are particularly comfortable but for me they are a perfect fit and I can barely feel them on my ears. I guess it might take some to get used to wearing over-ear IEMs if it's your first time, however I've been wearing glasses pretty much all my life so I'm used to having something on my ears. So if anyone that wears glasses and is looking to pick these up, your experience may vary, but for me the ZS5s don't really get in the way of the glasses once you get the wire nice and snug behind your ear so that your glasses' arms can still rest in their usual position.

When it comes to the eartips, I think the stock ones are pretty garbage. They'll do if you don't want to buy better ones right away but I'd say it's worth getting something nicer. I'm currently trying the silicone eartips that I had on my Betron's which feel nicer than the stock and sit nice and snug on ZS5s; definitely not worried about them falling off. I'll link them below since they seem to be the same ones that are on the KZ EDs and are available on AliExpress. I also got a pair of cheap T400 memory foam eartips which are surprisingly nice quality and sit very strongly on the ZS5s, it takes some force and wiggle to get them off but they go on just as easily as the stock tips. From what I have read most recommend T500 for ZS5s but these T400 seem perfect; the inner wall is wider than what's on the stock eartips and pretty much the same diameter as the driver port. They also isolate a lot of outside noise which is why I haven't tried them outside yet; the KZ ED eartips seem to give me the best results so I can still hear enough of my surroundings. For £2.24 they are great and they came with a small clear plastic container for them but I've found that it can fit about 3 pairs of eartips just fine.

I haven't seen many posts talking about the KZ storage box so I'll share my experience. Firstly the price is £1.34 so you can't go wrong with grabbing one if you travel with your earbuds. Sure it's not as nice as something like the Pelican 1010 mini but if you need something to keep your earbuds safe in your bag or pocket it's more than sufficient. The seal is alright, definitely not waterproof but no lint or other crap should be able to make it's way in. The clips close with a distinct click and require you to pop them open with your nails but it's ok. The inside is padded with 5mm ish pad on both sides which is glued down but they didn't do the best job with the glue. Nothing you can't fix if it bothers you although they stay in place fine. Refer to the images for the size of the box. I can fit the ZS5s and the eartips container inside it no problem.

I use the ZS5s with my phone HTC One M8 and I use Viper4Android FX on it. Still trying out various settings but I'd say they sound fantastic out the box so tweaking them with an EQ and other Viper settings just gets them perfect for you and will be subjective.

Here are a couple of photos to support all I wrote. Didn't want to spam the entire post with them so here is a link to a gallery: http://imgur.com/a/senR4

Finally I have a question, does anyone own this replacement cable for the ZS5s LINK I'm looking to pick up the silver one since the stock wire is a bit meh. The cable itself remembers it's position too well and when you take it out of a storage box it takes a while to straighten out. Also want this silver cable since I like the look of it and it seems to be higher quality compared to the official silver cable. I would appreciate any feedback if you own it. I think it's the same cable that @colgateam owns and showed a few posts back.

Sorry for a lengthy write up but just wanted to share my experience and findings. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask 

Links I used to order all the things mentioned:
KZ ZS5
KZ ED/Betron YSM1000 silicone eartips
Betron YSM1000
KZ Storage Box
T400 Memory Foam eartips


----------



## groucho69

Damikiller37 said:


> Hey I've received my KZ ZS5 the other and I couldn't thank this thread enough! I've been using my Betron YSM1000 (which appear to be a rebrand/clone of the KZ ED) for over a year now until the microphone part started to fall apart on me and resulted in a constant low volume hiss. I've ordered the KZ ZS5 from GearBest during one of their deals for £14.67 (I paid £16.46 with Priority Line shipping) and they arrived 10 days after the order. I also ordered the KZ Storage box on Ebay along with some memory foam eartips (both took about a week to arrive). First time owning an over-ear IEM and I'm so glad I got these.
> 
> I've always had an issue with having earbuds stay in my ears especially when walking no matter what eartips I had and these solve that. I read that a fair amount of people don't think the ZS5s are particularly comfortable but for me they are a perfect fit and I can barely feel them on my ears. I guess it might take some to get used to wearing over-ear IEMs if it's your first time, however I've been wearing glasses pretty much all my life so I'm used to having something on my ears. So if anyone that wears glasses and is looking to pick these up, your experience may vary, but for me the ZS5s don't really get in the way of the glasses once you get the wire nice and snug behind your ear so that your glasses' arms can still rest in their usual position.
> 
> ...



Never apologize for providing your honest impressions and providing knowledge and links. Thanks!


----------



## Slater

eaglesgift said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to buy the silicone tips that come with the ED9 separately? I've found the large ones to be the best fit for me with the ZS5 and would really like to get hold of some more.



Hit me up in PM or something. I'll send you some for free, as I don't use the large.


----------



## nplateau

Interesting review of the ZS5.  I don't necessarily agree with it, but something to note I suppose:


----------



## HungryPanda

wow I think I have a different earphone than his, mine don't have a boomy bass, they're actually pretty neutral


----------



## toddy0191

Received my third set of ZS5s (I know!) and these work perfectly with my galaxy S8 so I'm not sure if something has changed with the cable or if it's down to a software update on the phone.

Anyway, just a heads up to anyone thinking of ordering them to use with an S8 who may have been put off by my earlier posts.

Third pair was from gearbest in grey with no mic.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> Received my third set of ZS5s (I know!) and these work perfectly with my galaxy S8 so I'm not sure if something has changed with the cable or if it's down to a software update on the phone.
> 
> Anyway, just a heads up to anyone thinking of ordering them to use with an S8 who may have been put off by my earlier posts.
> 
> Third pair was from gearbest in grey with no mic.



So are you saying that your other (2) sets don't sound as good or something? Because you mentioned you didn't know if something changed (with this 3rd set)...


----------



## toddy0191 (Jul 31, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> So are you saying that your other (2) sets don't sound as good or something? Because you mentioned you didn't know if something changed (with this 3rd set)...



Neither of the first two sets would work with my galaxy S8 at all, not even with the silver cable. The only way I got them to work was by using an old ZS3 cable (pre memory wire).

It was obviously related to the new cables somehow as the old cable worked. The first two were a mic and a non mic version, so nothing to do with the mic.

They worked on all my other sources, or with an amp in-between.

No sound difference that I can hear either


----------



## nihontoman

nplateau said:


> Interesting review of the ZS5.  I don't necessarily agree with it, but something to note I suppose:





interesting video, but yeah, I don't really hear the same things this guy hears...


----------



## groucho69

Ditto


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> Neither of the first two sets would work with my galaxy S8 at all, not even with the silver cable. The only way I got them to work was by using an old ZS3 cable (pre memory wire).
> 
> It was obviously related to the new cables somehow as the old cable worked. The first two were a mic and a non mic version, so nothing to do with the mic.
> 
> ...



That is very odd indeed! Wow, what's up with that?


----------



## Slater

nihontoman said:


> interesting video, but yeah, I don't really hear the same things this guy hears...



Probably plugged them in out of phase, or maybe even his were wired out of phase internally. Or had too large of tips (which others have said causes too much bass).

He's entitled to his opinion, which I respect. And I understand where he was coming from. But he really seemed like he had an agenda. It was obvious to me that the "audio engineer who could not be named" was someone who worked at campfire audio, because he dropped that hint towards the end of his review.

Is there better stuff? Obviously. No one who has the ZS5 even remotely thinks it's going to be a 1:1 copy of the Andromeda. Plus he was comparing it to the LZ4, which is ludicrous as well. He also never said what genres he listens to. I have IEMs that people LOVE, but I HATE because they aren't tuned for EDM or rock. It's about perspective.

I personally wouldn't discourage anyone from trying the ZS5 (or any budget ChiFi for that matter). A lot of people can't afford $400 IEMs because they aren't bankrolled by mommy and daddy. And other people have never heard anything better quality than the free earbuds that came with their iPhone.

So introducing them to ChiFi with a $30 IEM is a great way to get started into the world of audio. The way I see it, it's harder to appreciate the better stuff or learn what sound signatures you like until you've cut your teeth on as much gear as possible (regardless of $30 or $300). I've learned so much over the years on $3-$100 IEMs/headphones, that it's helped me better choose and appreciate my $300-$400 units.

And if someone tries the ZS5 and determine it's not for them, they are out $30 - whoopdie doo.


----------



## B9Scrambler

nplateau said:


> Interesting review of the ZS5.  I don't necessarily agree with it, but something to note I suppose:




Can't agree with it either, and the logic behind the argument just doesn't add up. But then again, mine are just the words of a KZ fanboi, so feel free to disregard.


----------



## bjaardker

1) He basically said you can't have a good armature driver headphone without tubing. Ummm.....there's lots of headphones out there without tubes on the BAs.
2) Where is his audio design degree showing why you can't have those other drivers in their configuration? IMHO the driver configuration as it is lends to why the ZS5 has a fantastic soundstage. 
3) He keeps saying phasing issues....I don't think that means what he thinks it means.
4) He just compared 3 $100+ headphones to a $30 IEM. 
5) Wow, he sure likes himself a lot.


----------



## toddy0191

slaterlovesspam said:


> That is very odd indeed! Wow, what's up with that?



Just rechecked my first 2 again and they work!

Must have been a software issue.


----------



## Viber

Unfortunately, pessimist reviewers are usually more close to the truth than the optimists.


----------



## Griffith (Jul 31, 2017)

bjaardker said:


> 2) Where is his audio design degree showing why you can't have those other drivers in their configuration? IMHO the driver configuration as it is lends to why the ZS5 has a fantastic soundstage.



Not that I'm defending his opinion but he does mention in the video that he is not an expert and states that he is giving his opinion regarding things that he values and appreciates and, supposedly, according to the opinion of unnamed people who know more than he does. Of course that could all be hogwash, but still, he never claimed to be an expert and I believe he only classified his knowledge as "okay".

Again, this isn't an agreement or disagreement with what he stated but in my opinion if you want to criticize something or someone because of inaccuracies you should try to be accurate in your arguments.



Viber said:


> Unfortunately, pessimist reviewers are usually more close to the truth than the optimists.



That's a rather close-minded opinion and a dangerous line of thought. Arguments are only as strong as either their veracity or as how compelling they are. Although I'm far from being an audio engineer, I saw a lot of showcasing but very little evidence that things he actually stated are true. I don't know if they are or not, and I doubt his opinion will change how much I appreciate the ZS5 because that depends entirely on my own personal biases and other equipment.


----------



## Slater

Griffith said:


> I don't know if they are or not, and I doubt his opinion will change how much I appreciate the ZS5 because that depends entirely on my own personal biases and other equipment.



Bingo! If you want to try something, don't just go by reviews (good or bad). Try it YOURSELF and form your own opinion. I like IEMs a lot of respected people on HF hate, and vice versa. Does that mean one of us is wrong? No. It just means we have different ears, tastes, expectations, whatever.

But for so little cash, you have almost nothing to lose (except the cost of a few cups of coffee or lunch at a fast food joint). Besides, he kept saying $30...it was $30 the week it was released. You can get it now for under $20 (and I just paid under $10 from GearBest). So even if the ZS5 "isn't worth $30" according to him, I feel it IS worth every penny of half of that, you know?

Like I've told my daughter since she was knee high - "opinions are like *#%@, everyone's got one". Well, the PG version of the saying when she was little LOL. But you get the point.


----------



## Vidal

My take on that video?

I don't care if his and his friends have qualifications coming out of their ears, and I don't care whether the ZS5 have 2 BAs that are configured incorrectly. In fact I don't care about how they're configured full stop. 

All that matters is what I hear when I listen to them. And that's that they are the best sub $40 earphones I've heard so far. I don't think I'm alone in holding them in high regard either.


----------



## Sylmar

Vidal said:


> My take on that video?
> 
> I don't care if his and his friends have qualifications coming out of their ears, and I don't care whether the ZS5 have 2 BAs that are configured incorrectly. In fact I don't care about how they're configured full stop.
> 
> All that matters is what I hear when I listen to them. And that's that they are the best sub $40 earphones I've heard so far. I don't think I'm alone in holding them in high regard either.





B9Scrambler said:


> Can't agree with it either, and the logic behind the argument just doesn't add up. But then again, mine are just the words of a KZ fanboi, so feel free to disregard.



I could not agree more. I didn't buy the ZS5 because or marketing or the amount of drivers. I bought it because apparently they are something special within this price range and they are.


----------



## mochill (Jul 31, 2017)

Zs5 is very source dependent, some stuff sounds bad and some are mind blowing.the mids and treble is crazy good for the price.mids have a 3D transparent sound as well as the treble, bass is also dependent on the song.


----------



## nplateau

Yeah, when I saw the review and posted it, I was more than a bit surprised.  I initially had some issues with the ZS5 that have been resolved with different tips that work better for me, and as a result, I'm quite happy with the result.  I don't own a veritable stable of IEMs, but I have a few, including the Magaosi K3 Pro and the TFZ Exclusive 5, and those two are both quite wonderful in their own ways, but I keep coming back to the ZS5.  There is something quite fun and engaging about them that rarely, if ever, leaves me wanting.  For 30 bucks, they are an absolute peach!  To my ears, I think they have set the bar for "budget" IEMs, and in a kind of scary way have become the standard by which I will probably judge any future sub $50 IEM.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2017)

mochill said:


> Zs5 is very source dependent, some stuff sounds bad and some are mind blowing.the mids and treble is crazy good for the price.mids have a 3D transparent sound as well as the treble, bass is also dependent on the song.



Yeah, I forgot about that (pertaining to that review). That's a big factor with the ZS5.

Guy didn't mention his sources much less if he tried more than 1 source. Or if he used an amp, etc.

Probably just plugged them into his iPhone, the sound didn't agree with him, so now I'm off to go make a YouTube video.

Oh well.


----------



## khighly

You can see in the diagrams on every ZS5 listing that they have no tubes. It wasn't a lie, just cost cutting to keep them at a $25-$35 price point. QA is another cost cutting area.

Good luck getting anything near this quality for $27. Admirable large soundstage and a balanced sound. The best? No. They have their flaws.


----------



## khighly

Also, spinfits cut the bass and make a more neutral sound, I feel.  Starlines are bassier, and it's actually noticable with one of each in your ear at the same time. Good seal deep in my ear and everything.


----------



## ayao

I watched that YT review. All that talk about tubing, tuning and driver config/placement means nothing if KZ intended the ZS5 to sound like what it sounds like. My Layla v1 has 12BA, tubing and freqphase but I've really struggled to bond with it and I'm merely keeping it in case I find a compatible source. Call me crazy but I've been more content with the ZS5 > K3P > A4 *runs away*


----------



## ricemanhk

What a BS video, I couldn't even wait for it to finish LOL
"you may hear sibilance, you may hear boomy bass" it's almost like he's looking up what typical faults any earphones could have and rattling them off

I agree KZ doesn't have best QC, and I think this might be the case for him getting a dud pair.  But just get a replacement/2nd pair to confirm rather than implying everyone else is wrong...that's the least a proper reviewer would do, just like many of you here.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Yeah, I've never been a fan of soulsik reviews.  The trend continues.


----------



## aisalen

I watch it too totally not agree with him in regards with the sounds coming from ZS5, this is the best 30USD value you can have. Whatever the flaws is, the bottom line is sound coming from it. I like it more in fact more than my A4 which I must say have design flaw with the housing me not getting a seal what ever tips I used. ZS5 is now my reference to what I buy in the future, and should be better than it before purchasing one. I am using it alternately with my IT03.


----------



## ridwan47

Will these work with ZS5?







https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6pc...32701632837.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.vDrQod


----------



## ricemanhk

ridwan47 said:


> Will these work with ZS5?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6pc...32701632837.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.vDrQod



I don't see why not, although I might cut off the top flange otherwise it'll go really deep into the ear canal


----------



## nihontoman (Aug 1, 2017)

Only thing that is interesting to me is the "wall" that he mentions. I'm not sure I got it quite right, but if I'm not mistaken, he basically says that two drivers, one BA and one dynamic, are basically sealed off from the sound tube? is it actually the case or did he say something different? if it is actually the case, it is not a very good thing imo, as those two drivers might be there just for marketing. I don't really care about tubing and stuff, but if those two drivers are COMPLETELY sealed off, I might consider being a little upset that my 4 driver hybrid earphone is just a 2 driver hybrid earphone


----------



## nihontoman

ricemanhk said:


> I don't see why not, although I might cut off the top flange otherwise it'll go really deep into the ear canal


yeah, they might be quite good for isolation and staying in of the iems, but also beware of discomfort - from personal experience, I could say you are basically plugging them directly into your brain


----------



## B9Scrambler

nihontoman said:


> Only thing that is interesting to me is the "wall" that he mentions. I'm not sure I got it quite right, but if I'm not mistaken, he basically says that two drivers, one BA and one dynamic, are basically sealed off from the sound tube? is it actually the case or did he say something different? if it is actually the case, it is not a very good thing imo, as those two drivers might be there just for marketing. I don't really care about tubing and stuff, but if those two drivers are COMPLETELY sealed off, I might consider being a little upset that my 4 driver hybrid earphone is just a 2 driver hybrid earphone



That's a line of thinking that makes absolutely no sense. Why wire in two additional, functioning (i.e. not fake) drivers, if they do nothing? And if they are actually "walled off" there's nothing preventing that from being a way of tuning since certain frequencies can still bleed through. Earphones are small and sound leakage is a thing that exists. Seems like a stretch, but it's more realistic than deliberately adding in and not utilizing a bunch of extra drivers which would be a waste of time and money.

I would also like to see a disassembled ZS5 that hasn't been mangled beyond recognition. Considering more seriously the prospect of trying to take my sample apart (not the one I paid ~50 CAD for) in a way that everything still functions. If possible.


----------



## nihontoman

B9Scrambler said:


> That's a line of thinking that makes absolutely no sense. Why wire in two additional, functioning (i.e. not fake) drivers, if they do nothing? And if they are actually "walled off" there's nothing preventing that from being a way of tuning since certain frequencies can still bleed through. Earphones are small and sound leakage is a thing that exists. Seems like a stretch, but it's more realistic than deliberately adding in and not utilizing a bunch of extra drivers which would be a waste of time and money.
> 
> I would also like to see a disassembled ZS5 that hasn't been mangled beyond recognition. Considering more seriously the prospect of trying to take my sample apart (not the one I paid ~50 CAD for) in a way that everything still functions. If possible.


Yeah, I'm being kinda sarcastic, but at the same time I'm genuinely interested in the positioning and the ways each driver contributes to the sound and if some of those are actually sealed off or not...

 Can't risk disassembling mine because it is a present from my girlfriend and frankly it is my current best sounding phone ( I prefer these to the hd598 - just me preference mind you) and don't want to end up destroying it


----------



## Griffith

Just wanted to make a note about Soulsik's review. Again, I'm not defending, nor have the technical knowledge to evaluate whether or not the engineering flaws he pointed out are true or not but he did say he was looking for a reference earphone at a certain price range.

From what I've heard described about the ZS5 it seems to be a slightly more refined sound than the ZST with less harsh highs and improvements in the rest of the frequency range. With that said, the ZS5 are anything but neutral sounding, which is what you would look for in a reference earphone. If I bought a ZS5 with the hopes of using it as a reference earphone, I think I would also be disappointed. The KZ ATE, in my opinion, would be much better for that purpose.


----------



## ricemanhk

Griffith said:


> Just wanted to make a note about Soulsik's review. Again, I'm not defending, nor have the technical knowledge to evaluate whether or not the engineering flaws he pointed out are true or not but he did say he was looking for a reference earphone at a certain price range.
> 
> From what I've heard described about the ZS5 it seems to be a slightly more refined sound than the ZST with less harsh highs and improvements in the rest of the frequency range. With that said, the ZS5 are anything but neutral sounding, which is what you would look for in a reference earphone. If I bought a ZS5 with the hopes of using it as a reference earphone, I think I would also be disappointed. The KZ ATE, in my opinion, would be much better for that purpose.



Nah, his wording of reference is more as "reference point", and not as a neutral sounding reference headphone.  His point (at least how I understood it) was to have the "best" headphone at difference price points to act as benchmark (which would be a better term to use).  Of course, "best" also differs by person...

Just another data point that the guy is not the best reviewer.


----------



## Viber

Griffith said:


> That's a rather close-minded opinion and a dangerous line of thought. Arguments are only as strong as either their veracity or as how compelling they are. Although I'm far from being an audio engineer, I saw a lot of showcasing but very little evidence that things he actually stated are true. I don't know if they are or not, and I doubt his opinion will change how much I appreciate the ZS5 because that depends entirely on my own personal biases and other equipment.



It's close minded to say that my opinion is close minded just because it's different from yours.
Cheap earphones are more likely to be bad than good and the "flavor of the month" epidemic is around for years on Head-Fi and Reddit.

My personal experience with earphones and headphones has taught me that pessimist reviewers should not be taken lightly even if it's more comfortable to dismiss their opinion.


----------



## Griffith (Aug 1, 2017)

Viber said:


> It's close minded to say that my opinion is close minded just because it's different from yours.
> Cheap earphones are more likely to be bad than good and the "flavor of the month" epidemic is around for years on Head-Fi and Reddit.
> 
> My personal experience with earphones and headphones has taught me that pessimist reviewers should not be taken lightly even if it's more comfortable to dismiss their opinion.



I only trust reviews that are either from a highly reputable source or that present proper evidence. The reviewer in question is neither reputable nor does he present proper evidence. He presented an opinion without any verifiable sources or anything to back up his claims. If for you that is evidence enough, that is your own prerogative. If holding a $20ish earphone up to the same standards as a $100+ one is a reasonable thing, that's your prerogative. If claiming the ZS5 is a hoax because you open up an earphone, confirm it has specs that the device claims to have, but they don't match a specific criteria you created is a reasonable thing, that's your own prerogative.

In my opinion, regardless of his personal taste in audio equipment, most of what he presented to justify his opinion was unfounded and unjustified. "These are bad because someone that knows better than me but wants to remain anonymous said so" is not a justification. It's bull.

The fact of the matter is most people who received their ZS5 appreciate it and while yes, there will be a bias towards KZ in this thread there have been heated discussion against specific KZ models in this thread by people that didn't appreciate them, particularly the ATE/ATR series and even the ZST. Tastes will vary and as such opinions about any given earphone will vary in equal measure. The same is true for that reviewer. When Tyll from Inner Fidelity opens up an earphone he has the technical knowledge and data to explain how it functions and shows data to back up his claims. That's what an analytical reviewer does, that is what Soulsik does not.

Trusting a review just because of its tone is misguided and ingenuous.


----------



## crabdog

B9Scrambler said:


> That's a line of thinking that makes absolutely no sense. Why wire in two additional, functioning (i.e. not fake) drivers, if they do nothing? And if they are actually "walled off" there's nothing preventing that from being a way of tuning since certain frequencies can still bleed through. Earphones are small and sound leakage is a thing that exists. Seems like a stretch, but it's more realistic than deliberately adding in and not utilizing a bunch of extra drivers which would be a waste of time and money.
> 
> I would also like to see a disassembled ZS5 that hasn't been mangled beyond recognition. Considering more seriously the prospect of trying to take my sample apart (not the one I paid ~50 CAD for) in a way that everything still functions. If possible.


I agree with this. Even if the drivers are walled off that doesn't mean they aren't contributing to the overall sound. The dynamic driver in particular would still vibrate the shell and possibly bleed through. Maybe that's why people say the sub-bass is so satisfying. I'm also with the others who don't care about the configuration as long as they enjoy the sound.


----------



## Damikiller37 (Aug 1, 2017)

I caved in and ordered this silver cable for ZS5 from AliExpress since it's on a sale for £9.22. Might take a while since I just went with the free post (20 - 40 days apparently). I'll report back once I get it with a bit of a comparison to the stock cable.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Griffith said:


> I only trust reviews that are either from a highly reputable source or that present proper evidence. The reviewer in question is neither reputable nor does he present proper evidence. He presented an opinion without any verifiable sources or anything to back up his claims. If for you that is evidence enough, that is your own prerogative. If holding a $20ish earphone up to the same standards as a $100+ one is a reasonable thing, that's your prerogative. If claiming the ZS5 is a hoax because you open up an earphone, confirm it has specs that the device claims to have, but they don't match a specific criteria you created is a reasonable thing, that's your own prerogative.
> 
> In my opinion, regardless of his personal taste in audio equipment, most of what he presented to justify his opinion was unfounded and unjustified. "These are bad because someone that knows better than me but wants to remain anonymous said so" is not a justification. It's bull****.
> 
> ...


two phenomena that we should remain conscious of:
1. chifi has evolved at such warp-speed that price is no longer an indicator of value--there really are $10-20 cheapos that  can credibly be held up to much pricier models.
2. many of us fall prey to "bargain bias," which is to say that we tend to subjectively over-praise an iem because it's so cheap.
i'm currently leaning to believing that the zs5 is prone to this latter phenomenon--it's a very good-sounding piece, but query whether it would garner the same acclaim if it cost >$50.


----------



## Griffith

loomisjohnson said:


> two phenomena that we should remain conscious of:
> 1. chifi has evolved at such warp-speed that price is no longer an indicator of value--there really are $10-20 cheapos that  can credibly be held up to much pricier models.
> 2. many of us fall prey to "bargain bias," which is to say that we tend to subjectively over-praise an iem because it's so cheap.
> i'm currently leaning to believing that the zs5 is prone to this latter phenomenon--it's a very good-sounding piece, but query whether it would garner the same acclaim if it cost >$50.



I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, which is why I prefer to hear about the experience that different people had and actual descriptions of the product itself rather than baseless speculation. What is currently being discussed right now is mostly baseless.

It may or not be true that the ZS5 is "overrated" or subject to "bargain bias" but just like any bias or rating, they are both subject to subjective perspectives and opinions and discussing what we think about those things is as fruitful as discussing the color of the sky.

This should be a thread to discuss KZ products, not speculation about KZ products.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 1, 2017)

bjaardker said:


> 3) He keeps saying phasing issues....I don't think that means what he thinks it means.


He obviously had an out of phase connection on the ZS5 and didn't realise it, that's why he's mouthing about phase issues....how silly...lol. I won't even bother with reviewers like soulsik who doesn't even realise what is an out of phase issue, let alone solve it.


----------



## HungryPanda

Well my aliexpress account is back online so my order for the KZ ZSE's has went through


----------



## peskypesky

loomisjohnson said:


> two phenomena that we should remain conscious of:
> 1. chifi has evolved at such warp-speed that price is no longer an indicator of value--there really are $10-20 cheapos that  can credibly be held up to much pricier models.
> 2. many of us fall prey to "bargain bias," which is to say that we tend to subjectively over-praise an iem because it's so cheap.
> i'm currently leaning to believing that the zs5 is prone to this latter phenomenon--it's a very good-sounding piece, but query whether it would garner the same acclaim if it cost >$50.



confirmation bias happens at EVERY price point.


----------



## bjaardker

Griffith said:


> Not that I'm defending his opinion but he does mention in the video that he is not an expert and states that he is giving his opinion regarding things that he values and appreciates and, supposedly, according to the opinion of unnamed people who know more than he does. Of course that could all be hogwash, but still, he never claimed to be an expert and I believe he only classified his knowledge as "okay".



He says that he's "not an expert" and only talking about what he likes. But then he dives into how you "can't tune a BA without a tube" and the sound chamber design causes "phasing" issues. 

No matter how he prefaced it at the start, he's making some pretty bold statements on how headphones "should" be constructed from a sound design standpoint. So I feel my criticism of his statements stands.


----------



## Ynot1

Someone mentioned KZ went from 0.75 2 pin to 0.78 2 pin on the zs3/zs5. So does this mean VE 0.78 2pin balance cable is compatible?

I'm trying to get the most affordable, but good value balance sound earphone and cable.
ZS3 plus VE balance 2 pin cable or Ty Hi-Z balance earbud?
Unless there are more balance earphone coming the down the pipeline.


----------



## B9Scrambler

bjaardker said:


> He *says that he's "not an expert"* and only talking about what he likes. But then he dives into how you "can't tune a BA without a tube" and the sound chamber design causes "phasing" issues.
> 
> No matter how he prefaced it at the start, *he's making some pretty bold statements on how headphones "should" be constructed from a sound design standpoint*. So I feel my criticism of his statements stands.



There is this (in bold above), plus he's gone into a number of other youtube videos covering the ZS5 and in the comments section is actively pursuing others to watch his video and avoid the product. That's stepping over the line and displaying a very focused agenda imo. Not cool, my boy.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 1, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> There is this (in bold above), plus he's gone into a number of other youtube videos covering the ZS5 and in the comments section is actively pursuing others to watch his video and avoid the product. That's stepping over the line and displaying a very focused agenda imo. Not cool, my boy.


I think soulsik is so pissed off because he's hearing out of phase sound. He doesn't know how to fix the out of phase issue on his ZS5. He must be thinking why is everyone praising the ZS5's sound quality when all he hears is out of phase sound. Somebody needs to help this poor guy who is so ignorant and yet thinks he's doing a big favor to everyone by asking them to avoid the ZS5...A fool on the hill...I guess.


----------



## Griffith

Ynot1 said:


> Someone mentioned KZ went from 0.75 2 pin to 0.78 2 pin on the zs3/zs5. So does this mean VE 0.78 2pin balance cable is compatible?
> 
> I'm trying to get the most affordable, but good value balance sound earphone and cable.
> ZS3 plus VE balance 2 pin cable or Ty Hi-Z balance earbud?
> Unless there are more balance earphone coming the down the pipeline.



What type of sound signature do you appreciate, or what type of music do you usually listen to?


----------



## Saoshyant

I honestly don't understand why this much time and effort has gone into discussing a review that nobody is happy with.  But at least I know to avoid it in the first place.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Saoshyant said:


> I honestly don't understand why this much time and effort has gone into discussing a review that nobody is happy with.  But at least I know to avoid it in the first place.



It's the most exciting thing happening on Head-fi. *tumbleweed horde steams by*


----------



## abzjji

Hi everyone. Yesterday the mesh of my KZ ATR inears got loose on one side. Anyone got a tip if there a simple way to fix this?


----------



## Slater (Aug 1, 2017)

abzjji said:


> Hi everyone. Yesterday the mesh of my KZ ATR inears got loose on one side. Anyone got a tip if there a simple way to fix this?



It's just stuck on with an adhesive ring. You should be able to use a quip and he gently smooth it back down. Be careful not to bend the screen by applying too much pressure.

If that doesn't work you can install a new screen. They can be purchased on AliExpress for under $1 for (10). The new screen just peels and sticks like a sticker. Takes seconds to replace.

The other option is to just remove both screens. There are people that roll with no screens on any of their IEMs, b cause they do in theory affect the sound (however slight).


----------



## Ynot1

Griffith said:


> What type of sound signature do you appreciate, or what type of music do you usually listen to?



I have Vivo XE800 that I like a lot with pop, classical, and most others that don't have too much modern electronic bass. For bass heavy, much like edm I like piston 2, but I also like the bass of the TDK budget variety eb950 over the piston because the piston's bass is overly soft and lack tight punch. So I heard good things about Ty Hi-Z and I have Vido which is good. And the ZS3 and ZS5 seem to get positive reviews as well. I believe Fiio has new earphones being released and they may offer compatibility support for their InfinitySound. So all in all I want something decent to do balance that is affordable.


----------



## Griffith (Aug 1, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> I have Vivo XE800 that I like a lot with pop, classical, and most others that don't have too much modern electronic bass. For bass heavy, much like edm I like piston 2, but I also like the bass of the TDK budget variety eb950 over the piston because the piston's bass is overly soft and lack tight punch. So I heard good things about Ty Hi-Z and I have Vido which is good. And the ZS3 and ZS5 seem to get positive reviews as well. I believe Fiio has new earphones being released and they may offer compatibility support for their InfinitySound. So all in all I want something decent to do balance that is affordable.



Yeah... I actually have the Vivo XE800 as well and I don't think the ZS3 or ZST are remotely similar. If you want something similar but different, though not necessarily better I think you might appreciate the Somic V4 or the Tennmak Pro which has less pronounced bass and treble but great detail and features. I think the KZ Ate would be closest thing to a signature I'm sure you'd appreciate.

If you want a warm bassy earphone from KZ the ZS3, ZS1 and ED9 are all great options. If you appreciate lively treble sound the ZST will brighten up your music but if you are prone to treble sensitivity they might get tiring after a while.

KZ earphones are great but most of the ones I've tried usually play to one, or occasionally two, strengths whereas the Vivo has a nice warm comforting signature that can be appreciated for long hours. If you really like the Vivo I would also save up money to buy the Vsonic GR07 which uses the same sound drive but has a more refined sound and better build quality. I'd recommend the version with the detachable cable even though it's not even remotely as sexy as the non-detachable version.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> It's the most exciting thing happening on Head-fi. *tumbleweed horde steams by*


----------



## Ynot1 (Aug 1, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> Someone mentioned KZ went from 0.75 2 pin to 0.78 2 pin on the zs3/zs5. So does this mean VE 0.78 2pin balance cable is compatible?
> 
> I'm trying to get the most affordable, but good value balance sound earphone and cable.
> ZS3 plus VE balance 2 pin cable or Ty Hi-Z balance earbud?
> Unless there are more balance earphone coming the down the pipeline.




Just to be clear I meant balance as opposed to unbalance vs the balance sound signature thingy.


----------



## Ynot1 (Aug 1, 2017)

Griffith said:


> Yeah... I actually have the Vivo XE800 as well and I don't think the ZS3 or ZST are remotely similar. If you want something similar but different, though not necessarily better I think you might appreciate the Somic V4 or the Tennmak Pro which has less pronounced bass and treble but great detail and features. I think the KZ Ate would be closest thing to a signature I'm sure you'd appreciate.
> 
> If you want a warm bassy earphone from KZ the ZS3, ZS1 and ED9 are all great options. If you appreciate lively treble sound the ZST will brighten up your music but if you are prone to treble sensitivity they might get tiring after a while.
> 
> KZ earphones are great but most of the ones I've tried usually play to one, or occasionally two, strengths whereas the Vivo has a nice warm comforting signature that can be appreciated for long hours. If you really like the Vivo I would also save up money to buy the Vsonic GR07 which uses the same sound drive but has a more refined sound and better build quality. I'd recommend the version with the detachable cable even though it's not even remotely as sexy as the non-detachable version.



Thanks. I was thinking that biocellulose tonality is what I'm finding favorable and both V4 and ed9 supposedly uses it. And gr07 supposedly have the same if not nearly similar graphs to XE so I thought they were in the same ball park.

But I can't make those balance without some serious DIY homework.


----------



## Slater (Jun 1, 2018)

Ynot1 said:


> Thanks. I was thinking that biocellulose tonality is what I'm finding favorable and both V4 and ed9 supposedly uses it. And gr07 supposedly have the same if not nearly similar graphs to XE so I thought they were in the same ball park.



Hmmm, not sure about the ED9. I can check when I get home, but if I remember correctly the diaphragm looks like titanium. It's very easy to see when you unscrew the filter because the driver is right there.

I do agree with you on biofiber drivers. The Meizu HD50 has a really nice tone that none of my other headphones have, which I attribute to the driver.


----------



## Ynot1

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hmmm, not sure about the ED9. I can check when I get home, but if I remember correctly the diaphragm looks like titanium. It's very easy to see when you unscrew the filter because the driver is right there.
> 
> I do agree with you on biofibet drivers. The Meizu HD50 has a really nice tone that none of my other headphones have, which I attribute to the driver.


I really need a balance capable earphone, but Meizu HD50 will be on my radar.


----------



## abzjji

Thanks, I put it back on but Im not really confident that it will stick there for long =D


----------



## mochill

Ynot1 said:


> I have Vivo XE800 that I like a lot with pop, classical, and most others that don't have too much modern electronic bass. For bass heavy, much like edm I like piston 2, but I also like the bass of the TDK budget variety eb950 over the piston because the piston's bass is overly soft and lack tight punch. So I heard good things about Ty Hi-Z and I have Vido which is good. And the ZS3 and ZS5 seem to get positive reviews as well. I believe Fiio has new earphones being released and they may offer compatibility support for their InfinitySound. So all in all I want something decent to do balance that is affordable.


Get the Vsonics gr07x, has a balanced option as well


----------



## 1clearhead

WOW!....I'm just stunned! So far, I've been burning-in the *KZ ZSE* for over 65 hours and been listening to them for several hours, as well. And I have to say that I'm in disbelief! I did some research and one dynamic works as a sub-woofer, while the other driver works as a midrange and tweeter set-up! These are truly EPIC for their price! They even slightly better the ZS5 in a more comfortable listening experience, even though they have more of a similar characteristic in sound, which is incredible for the ZSE and the price your paying for!

All in all, these are EPIC for their price and their unique sound signature!

Here are some of my PIC's.....



 

 

 

 



PIC's below...*Courtesy of KZ



 


....Extremely cheap for such an expensive sound signature. I personally think they are truly EPIC!


-Clear


----------



## Hitesh

1clearhead said:


> WOW!....I'm just stunned! So far, I've been burning-in the *KZ ZSE* for over 65 hours and been listening to them for several hours, as well. And I have to say that I'm in disbelief! I did some research and one dynamic works as a sub-woofer, while the other driver works as a midrange and tweeter set-up! These are truly EPIC for their price! They even slightly better the ZS5 in a more comfortable listening experience, even though they have more of a similar characteristic in sound, which is incredible for the ZSE and the price your paying for!
> 
> All in all, these are EPIC for their price and their unique sound signature!
> 
> ...


How is the cable noise ?


----------



## Slater (Aug 1, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> ...*They even slightly better the ZS5*...



Ladies and gentleman, the new Hype train is now leaving the station lol.


----------



## IamMe90

^Lol! 

Yeah, I can't honestly believe the quoted part of the post. But if they're mostly as good, at that price, I'll be thrilled. Mine should get here within a week or so - fairly excited. In fact, much more excited than my much pricier Pioneer SE-A1000 purchase, which arrives tomorrow. After doing a bit more reading (_after_ purchasing, of course...) I feel like I got super hype train'd by these guys and they're bound to let me down. But I am trying to repress these feelings and let objective first impressions occur. Easier said than done... lol X)


----------



## shubu000

Hey @1clearhead and others

how's the isolation on the ZSE? i know that the sound be airy with that grill but not sure if ti's good to use in a noisy place though
also is it more comfortable than the MEMT X5? 

deciding whether to get zse or zs5.. i prefer wearing my earphones cable down...


----------



## peskypesky

slaterlovesspam said:


> Ladies and gentleman, the new Hype train is now leaving the station lol.


----------



## 1clearhead

slaterlovesspam said:


> Ladies and gentleman, the new Hype train is now leaving the station lol.


That was partially "quoted" by you  "*They even slightly better the ZS5* in a more comfortable listening experience" 

....Meaning: They are more comfortable than the ZS5's.  Though the ZSE has better treble extention, in my opinion.


----------



## 1clearhead

Hitesh said:


> How is the cable noise ?


You need a shirt-clip just like the X5 to keep the cable noise down.


----------



## nihontoman

how big are zse housings? I need something for my girlfriend who has tiny ears


----------



## 1clearhead

shubu000 said:


> Hey @1clearhead and others
> 
> how's the isolation on the ZSE? i know that the sound be airy with that grill but not sure if ti's good to use in a noisy place though
> also is it more comfortable than the MEMT X5?
> ...


I've wore them on the subway and it worked out well, and I personally feel that it seals better than the ZS5 (of course, I still love my ZS5 as well). I personally like both of them equally, but that says a lot from an earphone that cost even more cheaper than the already budget priced ZS5.


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 2, 2017)

nihontoman said:


> how big are zse housings? I need something for my girlfriend who has tiny ears


They are the same size and fit as the REMAX RM-580 or similar size to the UiiSii DT200.

REMAX RM-580




KZ ZSE




-Clear


----------



## snip3r77

slaterlovesspam said:


> Ladies and gentleman, the new Hype train is now leaving the station lol.



...in a more comfortable listening experience


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> That was partially "quoted" by you  "*They even slightly better the ZS5* in a more comfortable listening experience"
> 
> ....Meaning: They are more comfortable than the ZS5's.  Though the ZSE has better treble extention, in my opinion.



How are the mids and bass w.r.t ZS5 and MEMT ?


----------



## snip3r77

There might be a chance that the Remax OEMs from ZX


----------



## 1clearhead

snip3r77 said:


> How are the mids and bass w.r.t ZS5 and MEMT ?


Once the ZSE past 50 hours of burning, the MID's basically opened-up matching the ZS5 and slightly sounding more vivid and transparent in the upper-range when compared to the X5.


----------



## ridwan47

1clearhead said:


> WOW!....I'm just stunned! So far, I've been burning-in the *KZ ZSE* for over 65 hours and been listening to them for several hours, as well. And I have to say that I'm in disbelief! I did some research and one dynamic works as a sub-woofer, while the other driver works as a midrange and tweeter set-up! These are truly EPIC for their price! They even slightly better the ZS5 in a more comfortable listening experience, even though they have more of a similar characteristic in sound, which is incredible for the ZSE and the price your paying for!
> 
> All in all, these are EPIC for their price and their unique sound signature!
> 
> ...



It's a damn shame these doesn't have removable cables. I'd buy these at a heartbeat!


----------



## snip3r77

ridwan47 said:


> It's a damn shame these doesn't have removable cables. I'd buy these at a heartbeat!



You mean purchase at GearBest


----------



## 129207

Has this been mentioned before? Right now there's a pretty active thread on the Head-Fi facebook page about the ZS5. Seems two of the four drivers aren't even doing anything.  I still like mine though.


----------



## Viber

1clearhead said:


> Once the ZSE past 50 hours of burning, the MID's basically opened-up matching the ZS5 and slightly sounding more vivid and transparent in the upper-range when compared to the X5.



How are the ZSE VS the ZS3?

Are the ZSE loud? i need them to be as loud as the ZS3 or louder than the ATR.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Negakinu said:


> Has this been mentioned before? Right now there's a pretty active thread on the Head-Fi facebook page about the ZS5. Seems two of the four drivers aren't even doing anything.  I still like mine though.




You're late, we've been ranting about it for 6 pages.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1292#post-13632308


----------



## 129207

SomeTechNoob said:


> You're late, we've been ranting about it for 6 pages.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1292#post-13632308



Ah, thanks! My bad.  Completely missed those posts. Carry on!


----------



## Griffith

I'm thinking of, just as a social experiment, recording a decent quality video where I take a well-beloved chi-fi earphone, tear it open in a gruesome manner and edit in arrows pointing at the drivers and claim that a friend who is a sound engineer who knows more than me and has worked for numerous companies, but wishes to remain anonymous, told me that it was a very suboptimal design.

I'm just curious to see what happens.


----------



## hoerlurar

I received my zs5 yesterday, seems to my annoyance that I forgot to buy the mic version
Right now I'm using the included large tips.
I'm quite spoiled by having several good chi-fi iems, because i just plug something in, and usually after a little while when i've adjusted to the signature i just enjoy my music. And the ZS5 belong to that category as well; plug in, enjoy


----------



## ricemanhk

Griffith said:


> I'm thinking of, just as a social experiment, recording a decent quality video where I take a well-beloved chi-fi earphone, tear it open in a gruesome manner and edit in arrows pointing at the drivers and claim that a friend who is a sound engineer who knows more than me and has worked for numerous companies, but wishes to remain anonymous, told me that it was a very suboptimal design.
> 
> I'm just curious to see what happens.



Try the opposite.  Tear open a shure or something, say your KZ sound engineer friend says it's crap and even the ED9 (or whichever one) is better than this LOL


----------



## 1clearhead

Viber said:


> How are the ZSE VS the ZS3?
> 
> Are the ZSE loud? i need them to be as loud as the ZS3 or louder than the ATR.


They are a little louder than both. So, you're good to go!


----------



## nplateau

Oh effff me.  I just jumped on the hype train with the ZSE.  Well, can't really complain considering they only cost me $6.50.


----------



## Cya|\|

Any news on the pro?


----------



## Viber

1clearhead said:


> They are a little louder than both. So, you're good to go!



*Thanks!*  how would you compare the ZSE sound VS the ZS3?  
Are the highs more present in the ZSE? Can the mids on the ZSE handle electric guitars?


----------



## skajohyros

I like catching trains.


----------



## HungryPanda

I find they get me places


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> That was partially "quoted" by you  "*They even slightly better the ZS5* in a more comfortable listening experience"
> 
> ....Meaning: They are more comfortable than the ZS5's.  Though the ZSE has better treble extention, in my opinion.



I know - it was meant to be funny, taking it out of context (like they do in the news media all of the time) to make the joke about the hype train.

Wooo woooo chuga chuga


----------



## Francisk

HungryPanda said:


> I find they get me places


Even places that you don't want to go


----------



## vector84

The two driver ZS5 thing came up around page 1209 (with some better pictures from the original taobao disassembly comments) but still not a sufficiently detailed disassembly to actually "prove" anything since a BA tweeter would only need a tiny pinhole to contribute to the sound, which could easily be missed/damaged while scraping out all that blue goop,,, and a sub-bass DD wouldn't even need a sound channel at all if the tuning intent is for it to pass through the chamber wall... 

Mind you I'm not an audio engineer, I'm just parroting back what I read back there.


I do have a tiny bit of electrical engineering experience though, and... even if you *completely* can't hear them (which I am in no way trying to imply)... attaching addition complex loads to a system can considerably change the overall output, even if it has no direct contribution to the output in the band being considered, right? So even if you can't hear it at all, that BA could still be very significant...

*If* that were true, one could make the argument that 4 drivers is "marketing hype" because one is being used as something akin to a crossover... but does that even matter if it sounds good? That would be up to you to decide.


----------



## groucho69

Trainspotting


----------



## 1clearhead

nplateau said:


> Oh effff me.  I just jumped on the hype train with the ZSE.  Well, can't really complain considering they only cost me $6.50.


Worth every penny and then some.  This train is going to be hard to stop....wait 'till you get your pair. Priceless sound signature and resolution!


----------



## 1clearhead

Viber said:


> *Thanks!*  how would you compare the ZSE sound VS the ZS3?
> Are the highs more present in the ZSE? Can the mids on the ZSE handle electric guitars?


Definitely, the highs are more present on the ZSE and they handle guitar strumming extremely well.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 2, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> Worth every penny and then some.  This train is going to be hard to stop....wait 'till you get your pair. Priceless sound signature and resolution!


I still can remember your "Hype Train" on the Ivery 1....just in case you forgot. I still remember you saying that the Ivery 1 sounds as good as the Sennheiser HD600. Luckily I still have my HD600.


----------



## 1clearhead

Francisk said:


> I still can remember your "Hype Train" on the Ivery 1....just in case you forgot. I still remember you saying that the Ivery 1 sounds as good as the Sennheiser HD600. Luckily I still have my HD600.


Definitely, your choice whether to buy them or not....no hype on that.


----------



## Griffith

ricemanhk said:


> Try the opposite.  Tear open a shure or something, say your KZ sound engineer friend says it's crap and even the ED9 (or whichever one) is better than this LOL



If you donate the Shure and I don't completely fall in love with it, then Shure I'll do it.


----------



## 1clearhead

My second pair of ZSE came today. Since they're priced so cheap, I decided to get another.

....so far, no "QC" issues.


----------



## ricemanhk

Griffith said:


> If you donate the Shure and I don't completely fall in love with it, then Shure I'll do it.



Let me look on taobao and get a pair of Shire SE 835 or maybe Ultimately Ear Pro for you...


----------



## ridwan47

Quick question: will uncompressed FLAC/ALAC files improve listening experience with ZS5?

Listening devices are iPod touch 4 and the 5th gen iPad. My Android doesn't provide very good sounds.

My ZS5 is shipping.. Will get after two weeks hopefully. If uncompressed music files provides better sounds, on my devices then I'll download some FLAC music.


----------



## Vidal

ridwan47 said:


> Quick question: will uncompressed FLAC/ALAC files improve listening experience with ZS5?
> 
> Listening devices are iPod touch 4 and the 5th gen iPad. My Android doesn't provide very good sounds.
> 
> My ZS5 is shipping.. Will get after two weeks hopefully. If uncompressed music files provides better sounds, on my devices then I'll download some FLAC music.



That's a can of worms, but IMO I doubt you'll notice any major differences.


----------



## groucho69

Vidal said:


> That's a can of worms, but IMO I doubt you'll notice any major differences.


----------



## mono-type

So a local store just have their stocks of the ZSE yesterday. Should I buy or not?


----------



## peskypesky

mono-type said:


> So a local store just have their stocks of the ZSE yesterday. Should I buy or not?


Price?


----------



## mono-type (Aug 2, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> Price?


Around 11 USD.


----------



## trumpethead

1clearhead said:


> My second pair of ZSE came today. Since they're priced so cheap, I decided to get another.
> 
> ....so far, no "QC" issues.



CH, where are you ordering from that you are getting then so fast. Link please...


----------



## peskypesky

mono-type said:


> Around 11 USD.


get 'em


----------



## W.Peter (Aug 2, 2017)

Is it a bad idea to sanding down Ks5 edges? I found those edges especially the ones close to the logo irritate the most.
And what are the effective ways of burning-in IEMs? I found an interesting one from Z Reviews, but that one he uses it with a headphone. I downloaded the file, and it's a combination of "z" sound and music. 
I'm quite new to IEM, and I'd like to know your thoughts on this.


----------



## 1clearhead

trumpethead said:


> CH, where are you ordering from that you are getting then so fast. Link please...


Haha....I live in China and for quite some time. So, I won't know if it'll benifit you unless you live here as well. But, nonetheless, here's the link where I got them from.....

First pair I got from here.
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...27b&abbucket=4&sku_properties=5919063:6536025

Second pair I bought even cheaper from here.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Xu4hwn&id=555955005388&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail


-Clear


----------



## Slater

W.Peter said:


> Is it a bad idea to sanding down Ks5 edges? I found those edges especially the ones close to the logo irritate the most.



I'm going to be sanding my ZS5 smoother.


----------



## W.Peter

slaterlovesspam said:


> I'm going to be sanding my ZS5 smoother.


Alright, I'll do it too.


----------



## ricemanhk

ridwan47 said:


> Quick question: will uncompressed FLAC/ALAC files improve listening experience with ZS5?
> 
> Listening devices are iPod touch 4 and the 5th gen iPad. My Android doesn't provide very good sounds.
> 
> My ZS5 is shipping.. Will get after two weeks hopefully. If uncompressed music files provides better sounds, on my devices then I'll download some FLAC music.



FLAC/ALAC vs 128kbps MP3, for sure you'll hear a difference.  But if vs 320kbps, really hard to hear...even on pricey speaker systems it's difficult, let alone IEMs.
But hey if you've got the space on your device, go for it.

BTW while apple products generally are quite decent, more and more android devices come with better DACs/amps within the phone e.g. LG G6+
You can always use a separate DAC like Fiio units for better sound.  It's mainly the DAC that's giving the improvement though, IEMs don't need much power.


----------



## snip3r77

vector84 said:


> The two driver ZS5 thing came up around page 1209 (with some better pictures from the original taobao disassembly comments) but still not a sufficiently detailed disassembly to actually "prove" anything since a BA tweeter would only need a tiny pinhole to contribute to the sound, which could easily be missed/damaged while scraping out all that blue goop,,, and a sub-bass DD wouldn't even need a sound channel at all if the tuning intent is for it to pass through the chamber wall...
> 
> Mind you I'm not an audio engineer, I'm just parroting back what I read back there.
> 
> ...





ricemanhk said:


> FLAC/ALAC vs 128kbps MP3, for sure you'll hear a difference.  But if vs 320kbps, really hard to hear...even on pricey speaker systems it's difficult, let alone IEMs.
> But hey if you've got the space on your device, go for it.
> 
> BTW while apple products generally are quite decent, more and more android devices come with better DACs/amps within the phone e.g. LG G6+
> You can always use a separate DAC like Fiio units for better sound.  It's mainly the DAC that's giving the improvement though, IEMs don't need much power.


for commuting 320kbps good enough


----------



## 1clearhead

mono-type said:


> So a local store just have their stocks of the ZSE yesterday. Should I buy or not?


All I can say is....they are insanely good!

I like that one driver just draws out the bass/sub-bass (lows), while the other driver, which looks like a transducer, does the upper-range (highs). Great combination!....and the only one I've seen of its kind.


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> All I can say is....they are insanely good!
> 
> I like that one driver just draws out the bass/sub-bass (lows), while the other driver, which looks like a transducer, does the upper-range (highs). Great combination!....and the only one I've seen of its kind.



Forgive my ignorance but isn't that how all dual DD IEMs work?


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> All I can say is....they are insanely good!
> 
> I like that one driver just draws out the bass/sub-bass (lows), while the other driver, which looks like a transducer, does the upper-range (highs). Great combination!....and the only one I've seen of its kind.


Can you pls help to rank this IEM w.r.t iems that you have


----------



## 1clearhead

ricemanhk said:


> Forgive my ignorance but isn't that how all dual DD IEMs work?


Nah, not most of the time. With dual DD's, they're just wired parallel with the same drivers to perform the same function. These maybe wired the same, but completely different drivers and function.


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 3, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Can you pls help to rank this IEM w.r.t iems that you have


I can quickly say that they just bumped all my dynamics (even double DD's) to the side to become my number one dual dynamic drivers to take first place in the dynamic driver area. Other than microphonics being a slight issue (which a shirt-clip can easily fix) they are stellar! They can easily compete with ZS5 and K3 PRO, though constructively more fragile (plastic build) and cables are not detachable. But, the price is insane!...can't get over that price!

They are, in no way, the best looking....but they have an "old retro look" that makes them stand out from most "in-ear" earphones.






-Clear


----------



## mono-type (Aug 3, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> All I can say is....they are insanely good!
> 
> I like that one driver just draws out the bass/sub-bass (lows), while the other driver, which looks like a transducer, does the upper-range (highs). Great combination!....and the only one I've seen of its kind.


Now you're making me want to buy it!  Looks like I would enjoy these IEMs based on your description. If I enjoyed ZS3, would I also enjoy the ZSE?



1clearhead said:


> They are, in no way, the best looking....but they have an "old retro look" that makes them stand out from most "in-ear" earphones.


I said this before in this thread. I really dig the design, especially that old-school retro look like you've mentioned. That alone caught my attention when someone first posted about the ZSE in this thread.



peskypesky said:


> get 'em


I will. I think for that price there is nothing to lose.


----------



## ricemanhk

OMG I can't believe this but I only just realised the ZSE are worn down! I'm gonna get a pair for my wife then haha (of course I'll help "burn them in" with my own ears first *grin*)


----------



## 1clearhead

ricemanhk said:


> OMG I can't believe this but I only just realised the ZSE are worn down! I'm gonna get a pair for my wife then haha (of course I'll help "burn them in" with my own ears first *grin*)


Yea, that's what makes them the more interesting and comfortable as well.


----------



## ricemanhk

And the taobao price just dropped to 49/59 RMB that's 7 and 8.5 USD respectively...I'm getting 2 pairs lol


----------



## 1clearhead

mono-type said:


> Now you're making me want to buy it!  Looks like I would enjoy these IEMs based on your description. *If I enjoyed ZS3, would I also enjoy the ZSE?*
> 
> I said this before in this thread. I really dig the design, especially that old-school retro look like you've mentioned. That alone caught my attention when someone posted about the ZSE in this thread.
> 
> I will. I think for that price there is nothing to lose.


They are definitely a step-up in audible sound details and resolution.


----------



## 1clearhead

ricemanhk said:


> And the taobao price just dropped to 49/59 RMB that's 7 and 8.5 USD respectively...I'm getting 2 pairs lol


+1 ....got me 2 as well!


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> +1 ....got me 2 as well!



OK so talked with the shop where I got my ZS5 and KZ BT modules (I'm now "old customer"), they offered me RMB10 off per ZSE (their regular coupon was only RMB5 off) AND starline tips as freebies instead of that box which I have like 3 already...
I asked them if it's the usual 3 pairs of S M L they said yes, told them I only use the mediums and they said happy to swap those out and give me 3 pairs of medium for free.  Now THAT'S service...


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> They can easily compete with ZS5 and *MaGaosi PRO*, though constructively more fragile (plastic build) and cables are not detachable. But, the price is insane!...can't get over that price!
> 
> They are, in no way, the best looking....but they have an "old retro look" that makes them stand out from most "in-ear" earphones.
> 
> ...



You mean the K3 Pro?


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 3, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> You mean the K3 Pro?


Haha....they're going to work, my guess. ....yup, meant to say K3 PRO.


----------



## snip3r77

ricemanhk said:


> OK so talked with the shop where I got my ZS5 and KZ BT modules (I'm now "old customer"), they offered me RMB10 off per ZSE (their regular coupon was only RMB5 off) AND starline tips as freebies instead of that box which I have like 3 already...
> I asked them if it's the usual 3 pairs of S M L they said yes, told them I only use the mediums and they said happy to swap those out and give me 3 pairs of medium for free.  Now THAT'S service...



Impressions pls


----------



## ricemanhk

snip3r77 said:


> Impressions pls



Probably only get them by next week, but will do!


----------



## smy1

1clearhead said:


> That was partially "quoted" by you  "*They even slightly better the ZS5* in a more comfortable listening experience"
> 
> ....Meaning: They are more comfortable than the ZS5's.  Though the ZSE has better treble extention, in my opinion.



Does the zse come with that huge box? I am so excited for my pair!


----------



## akroy

1clearhead said:


> Haha....they're going to work, my guess. ....yup, meant to say K3 PRO.


1chearhead can you please give little sound comparison between zse vs zs5 and maybe with k3 pro, i am lokking at the seller zse graph and zs5 graphs posted hear to get an idea but fail to grasp the difference.


----------



## mono-type (Aug 3, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> They are definitely a step-up in audible sound details and resolution.


Oh well, time to ride the ZSE hype train! 

EDIT: Just placed an order from my local store right now. Now, to look forward to the delivery...


----------



## Viber (Aug 3, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> Nah, not most of the time. With dual DD's, they're just wired parallel with the same drivers to perform the same function. These maybe wired the same, but completely different drivers and function.



I'm pretty sure ZS1 works the same way, with the exact same driver sizes too.


----------



## toddy0191

Present just arrived!!!


----------



## mono-type

Judging from the design of the shells, are the ZSE's a semi-open IEM?


----------



## toddy0191

mono-type said:


> Judging from the design of the shells, are the ZSE's a semi-open IEM?



Don't think so. I can't hear anything coming through the grills.

I'm with @1clearhead with the quality of these for the price.

Stuck the large starline tips on and the bass!!!!!


----------



## mono-type

toddy0191 said:


> Don't think so. I can't hear anything coming through the grills.
> 
> I'm with @1clearhead with the quality of these for the price.
> 
> Stuck the large starline tips on and the bass!!!!!


So those tiny holes/dots are just for aesthetics, huh.


----------



## Viber

mono-type said:


> So those tiny holes/dots are just for aesthetics, huh.



They did the same on the EDR2


----------



## toddy0191 (Aug 3, 2017)

mono-type said:


> So those tiny holes/dots are just for aesthetics, huh.



Weirdly I've just listened again, removing the tip and boxing the nozzle with my finger and there is sound coming through the grills, so it looks like they may be open or have a vent at least underneath.

I love the look of them. They're really well built for the money too.


----------



## Griffith

I'm waiting for someone to compare them to the ZS1 because right now I'm half inclined to believe they are either very similar or the same.


----------



## Viber

My 2nd pair of ZS3 just arrived, they use a different box now.  I wonder if they did a new revision for the earphones too.
The old box next to the new:


----------



## smy1

toddy0191 said:


> Present just arrived!!!



Give us your review


----------



## toddy0191

smy1 said:


> Give us your review



Need to give them a good listen, but first impressions are positive. Big big bass!

Don't think they're going to usurp the ZS5s though.  They sound slightly veiled in comparison but that may change with burn in.

Think this is due to them having more prominent midbass.


----------



## Apputty

snip3r77 said:


> You mean the K3 Pro?


I am on board.


----------



## Viber (Aug 3, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Use your fingernail and dig at the bottom end of the wire. When the wire is exposed, you simply 'peel up' on the memory wire like you are peeling apart a stick of "string cheese" or a Twizzlers Pull-n-Peel. Once the memory wire is completely removed, you can easily tear off the outer sheath of rubber that was over the memory wire.
> 
> As far as the pieces being steady, they aren't as stable as the ATR/ATR because there's no weights. But they do a fairly good job of staying put. I wear glasses, so the arms of my glasses keeps them in place (I put the headphones on without my glasses, and then put on my glasses/sunglasses, so the arms of the glasses are holding the wires in place.
> 
> Here's a photo illustrating how you peel the wire out. Sorry it's just string cheese and not the real thing, but the idea is exactly the same LOL



Yo, Slater man. That was no rubber. That was a straight paper clip in there!




Was really scared near the end there, that paper clip is inside the connector together with actual wire so you have to pull it and hope it doesn't hurt the audio wire.


----------



## louiedog

I'm happy to see the ZSE impressions are so positive. I'm trying to decide if I should go mic or not on my order. I've been using my no-mic HD9 since my ATE w/ mic developed a problem. I think some moisture got into the remote/mic when it was raining and ever since when there's too much cable movement it's like the play/pause button is rapidly pressed which results in skipping to the end of a playlist or fast forwarding to the end of a podcast. Are problems with the mic versions like this common or was I just unlucky with the way mine broke?


----------



## 1clearhead

akroy said:


> 1chearhead can you please give little sound comparison between zse vs zs5 and maybe with k3 pro, i am lokking at the seller zse graph and zs5 graphs posted hear to get an idea but fail to grasp the difference.


Once you burned them (going through 75 hours now) they have a lot of transparent details and resolution similar sounding to the ZS5, but has a similar lower bass and sub-bass impact as the K3 PRO's. This is the latest impressions I have so far.


----------



## Rain Duacelera

Hello people , I've recently bought the black ZST.

Easily driven.
Responds well to my fiio e5 bass boost.
Very sensitive to the source.
Could be a little bit better on the mids. (more @ the background instruments). A quick fix is to use more volume.
Nice design (people pay attention).
Very good price comparing to earphones with the same price range here in Brazil.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and reviews.


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 3, 2017)

The burning process does bring a better amount of treble from the ZSE and gets more refined in time, but the ZS5 has slightly better coherency in the midrange. But, the overall sound signature of the ZSE is starting to have a lot of similarities and characteristics to the ZS5.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 3, 2017)

just received my ZS5's....finally!

First impressions;
1. These things are HUGE
2. Memory wire is annoying. Will try stripping it
3. These things are HUGE

They sound BIG too, with thumping bass, which I like. But the high end seems lacking, and I'm far from a treble-head. Most IEMs are too trebly for me.


----------



## toddy0191 (Aug 3, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> The burning process does bring a better amount of treble from the ZSE and gets more refined in time, but the ZS5 has slightly better coherency in the midrange. But, the overall sound signature of the ZSE is starting to have a lot of similarities and characteristics to the ZS5.



Glad to hear the change with burn in as that would make them awesome.

It's amazing what you can get for the price of a McDonald's!!!

@1clearhead  I love your enthusiasm for new earphones and have bought a number of them based on your recommendations and have never been disappointed. Don't let people knock you as you were one of the people that helped kickstart my addiction!!


----------



## Deveraux

What's the best KZ right now? Is there anything that'll launch soon?

I had the ED9 and I hated it that I sold it immediately (cos of soooo much of sibilance and literally no bass). How does the ZS5 compare to it?


----------



## bokiboki

Hitesh said:


> Can anyone else confirm if cable noise is this bad in ZS5 ? If you could compare it to Soundmagic E10, that would be better



Just bent the memory wire to your head, the cable  lying on your head and neck and you do not have a microphone problem


----------



## groucho69

toddy0191 said:


> Glad to hear the change with burn in as that would make them awesome.
> 
> It's amazing what you can get for the price of a McDonald's!!!
> 
> @1clearhead  I love your enthusiasm for new earphones and have bought a number of them based on your recommendations and have never been disappointed. Don't let people knock you as you were one of the people that helped kickstart my addiction!!



That's what we call:


----------



## CoiL

Deveraux said:


> What's the best KZ right now? Is there anything that'll launch soon?
> 
> *I had the ED9 and I hated it that I sold it immediately (cos of soooo much of sibilance and literally no bass).* How does the ZS5 compare to it?



1st - You definitely had faulty ED9

2nd - ZS5 & ZST are best KZ atm. ZST for more V-shaped signature and bass lovers, ZS5 for more balance.


----------



## CoiL

peskypesky said:


> just received my ZS5's....finally!
> 
> First impressions;
> 1. These things are HUGE
> ...



Another faulty KZ IEM ? ZS5 is near border of my highs tolerance and I`m also quite sensitive to highs.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> Once you burned them (going through 75 hours now) they have a lot of transparent details and resolution similar sounding to the ZS5, but has a similar lower bass and sub-bass impact as the K3 PRO's. This is the latest impressions I have so far.



Would You rate ZSE better than ZS5 in overall SQ without considering price? Should I get it if I  already have ZST and ZS5  ?


----------



## HungryPanda

Go on CoiL you know you want to


----------



## mocoheavy

Which do you think have deeper bass, ZSEs or ZSTs?


----------



## Saoshyant

@CoiL Just buy it and mod it already


----------



## AxelCloris

Had to clean up some of the recent discussion in this thread. Please keep it related to the gear and not each other.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 3, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Another faulty KZ IEM ? ZS5 is near border of my highs tolerance and I`m also quite sensitive to highs.


Maybe the armatures aren't working right?

I'm boosting the highs with eq, so they sound good...but usually, with IEM's, i'm using eq to lower highs.

I'm looking forward to getting home and A/B-ing the ZS5s with my other IEMs (Rock Zircons, KZ ED9, Seahf AWK009)


----------



## ridwan47

Please provide me a good tutorial to the headphone burn in process.


----------



## Saoshyant

ridwan47 said:


> Please provide me a good tutorial to the headphone burn in process.



I usually just use music I listen to often, something that's a good example of what I listen to.


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> The burning process does bring a better amount of treble from the ZSE and gets more refined in time, but the ZS5 has slightly better coherency in the midrange. But, the overall sound signature of the ZSE is starting to have a lot of similarities and characteristics to the ZS5.


I'm surprise that zse can own the k3 pro , a $100 iem


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Yo, Slater man. That was no rubber. That was a straight paper clip in there!
> 
> 
> Was really scared near the end there, that paper clip is inside the connector together with actual wire so you have to pull it and hope it doesn't hurt the audio wire.



Haha, yeah it is like a paper clip!

If they don't pull out cleanly, I've had good luck just bending it back and forth a number of times to fatigue the metal until it just snaps off.

Glad you got it squared away!

How is the comfort without the memory wire?


----------



## Slater

Deveraux said:


> What's the best KZ right now? Is there anything that'll launch soon?
> 
> I had the ED9 and I hated it that I sold it immediately (cos of soooo much of sibilance and literally no bass). How does the ZS5 compare to it?



That's too bad. It's easy to mod the ED9 to get killer sound and clean yet skull crushing bass.


----------



## peskypesky

ridwan47 said:


> Please provide me a good tutorial to the headphone burn in process.


https://www.jlabaudio.com/pages/audio-burn-in-download


----------



## theredhood (Aug 3, 2017)

CoiL said:


> 1st - You definitely had faulty ED9
> 
> 2nd - ZS5 & ZST are best KZ atm. ZST for more V-shaped signature and bass lovers, ZS5 for more balance.



Actually had the same experience with the ed9, the bass was ok (weak if you come from consumer headphones) but I definitely had sibilance with some tracks.

Edit: Did try foam mod and taping the back but it helped only slightly.


----------



## 1clearhead

toddy0191 said:


> Glad to hear the change with burn in as that would make them awesome.
> 
> It's amazing what you can get for the price of a McDonald's!!!
> 
> @1clearhead  I love your enthusiasm for new earphones and have bought a number of them based on your recommendations and have never been disappointed. Don't let people knock you as you were one of the people that helped kickstart my addiction!!


Haha, thanks! ....I guess we all contribute one way or another to help each other with our new toy's.


----------



## 1clearhead

CoiL said:


> Would You rate ZSE better than ZS5 in overall SQ without considering price? Should I get it if I  already have ZST and ZS5  ?


I actually like the "SQ" on both the ZSE and ZS5 equally, I'm just afraid to push the ZS5 to higher volumes, which it creates slight distortion at times. Whereas with the ZSE, having very similar characteristics, I can push them to higher volumes without ever having to worry of any distortion, whatsoever. Overall, they have a slight distinctive sound signature that separates them from the ZS5 and ZST, meaning they effortlessly drive easily with a luscious sonic-like impact to every song I hear. So, these are my go anywhere "in-ear" earphones, since they're so easy to wear with a higher comfort level, for that matter, at such a low price. They're definitely worth having for their unique retro look, for their unique drivers (one sub-woofer the other a hi-end transducer for mids and highs), and their sound signature that I personally think matches much pricier IEM's.

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

snip3r77 said:


> I'm surprise that zse can own the k3 pro , a $100 iem


I think they're both equally good in sound and anyone can be happy with either sound signature's, but the PRO's are constructively way better -alloy construction, better detachable cables and more accessories.


----------



## toddy0191

1clearhead said:


> I think they're both equally good in sound and anyone can be happy with either sound signature's, but the PRO's are constructively way better -alloy construction, better detachable cables and more accessories.



They are certainly becoming more transparent with burn in. Left them burning overnight and have to say I'm amazed at how the veil has almost disappeared.

I've just rechecked the sub bass levels at:

http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

And the roll off I mentioned earlier is no longer there and I can hear bass from 20hz up now.  Previously I didn't hear any bass on the test until 40hz,.

I bought the ZSE from the official store on Aliexpress, and when they messaged me to confirm I was happy, I replied and asked them about the ZSR and they said it will be released very soon!!!


----------



## VinceHill24

Last i checked ZSR is still under development and i guess the very soon may not really be that soon afterall. I think Slater's prediction may be right that it'll likely be released near the 11.11 sales period. At least that's what i'm hoping for coz my wallet is having difficulty catching up now lol


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> I think they're both equally good in sound and anyone can be happy with either sound signature's, but the PRO's are constructively way better -alloy construction, better detachable cables and more accessories.



But if the sound can can match the K3 Pro. I've saved up another $100 lol

Is the ZSE as detailed as ZS5? Also does it feel that it's more coherant too? For ZS5, I can feel that's a bit too layered


----------



## waveriderhawaii

toddy0191 said:


> @1clearhead  I love your enthusiasm for new earphones and have bought a number of them based on your recommendations and have never been disappointed. Don't let people knock you as you were one of the people that helped kickstart my addiction!!



Same for me brah. Love @1clearhead. Perhaps half of my 30 earphones were bought due to him. Never been disappointed and have been amazed many time.


----------



## chi-fi mel

1clearhead said:


> I think they're both equally good in sound and anyone can be happy with either sound signature's, but the PRO's are constructively way better -alloy construction, better detachable cables and more accessories.


I noticed you rated the "upgraded" MEMT X5 as your second favorite dynamic headphone. I love my MEMT X5, but how do I know if I have the upgraded version?


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> Haha, yeah it is like a paper clip!
> 
> If they don't pull out cleanly, I've had good luck just bending it back and forth a number of times to fatigue the metal until it just snaps off.
> 
> ...



The comfort is definitely better and they are way less cumbersome this way.

 I think they look a bit weirder on the ear without it.

  It was steady enough when i tested it, but i need to take it for a walk to see if i need to mod it a better "memory wire" instead or just keep the wire naked.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> I actually like the "SQ" on both the ZSE and ZS5 equally, I'm just afraid to push the ZS5 to higher volumes, which it creates slight distortion at times. Whereas with the ZSE, having very similar characteristics, I can push them to higher volumes without ever having to worry of any distortion, whatsoever. Overall, they have a slight distinctive sound signature that separates them from the ZS5 and ZST, meaning they effortlessly drive easily with a luscious sonic-like impact to every song I hear. So, these are my go anywhere "in-ear" earphones, since they're so easy to wear with a higher comfort level, for that matter, at such a low price. They're definitely worth having for their unique retro look, for their unique drivers (one sub-woofer the other a hi-end transducer for mids and highs), and their sound signature that I personally think matches much pricier IEM's.
> 
> -Clear


Thanks, will consider buying them


----------



## toddy0191 (Aug 4, 2017)

Just been a tip rolling with the ZSEs and have settled on the generic foams that are ubiquitous on Aliexpress.

With the foams they seem to sound more balanced albeit with elevated bass.

The mids have great texture with instruments and vocals sounding very natural.

The bass  is quick and well defined after some burning. It's also the most prominent part of the ZSEs signature sometimes intruding on the mids, but only slightly.

The highs are detailed and present but not as pronounced as the ZS5 and may not be present enough for treble heads.

Soundstage isn't as wide as the ZS5s but it's not narrow. The extra mid bass makes them sound less airy. 

Separation is good though and it's easy to pick out the small familiar details in my go to test tracks.

Overall amazing value for a fun sounding L shaped signature.

Here's the foams I'm using which are my favourite tips so far:


----------



## loomisjohnson

After a long and painful buying freeze i ordered a pair of the KZ EDR2 for my kid, who loses Apple earbuds at an astounding rate. Naturally, I tested 'em out on arrival and damn, they're awfully good for five bucks, with a surprisingly balanced signature and natural-sounding highs. Like the best KZs, they image very well and actually have better top-to bottom coherence (albeit less oomph) than their pricier labelmates. Decided to keep 'em--don't tell my kid.


----------



## Viber

loomisjohnson said:


> After a long and painful buying freeze i ordered a pair of the KZ EDR2 for my kid, who loses Apple earbuds at an astounding rate. Naturally, I tested 'em out on arrival and damn, they're awfully good for five bucks, with a surprisingly balanced signature and natural-sounding highs. Like the best KZs, they image very well and actually have better top-to bottom coherence (albeit less oomph) than their pricier labelmates. Decided to keep 'em--don't tell my kid.



I think they are the top selling earphones on Ali.


----------



## ridwan47

1clearhead said:


> I think they're both equally good in sound and anyone can be happy with either sound signature's, but the PRO's are constructively way better -alloy construction, better detachable cables and more accessories.



*better detachable cables*

Does ZSE have detachable cables at all?


----------



## VinceHill24

How to make just about any future KZ IEM ? ...
First get these


 

 

 

 

Then find a generic or universal shell. Or make your custom mold.

Tadaa ! KZ ZSX is born. Or EDX maybe lol
These stuff can get easily at alibaba, i think these stuffs are easily available anywhere. The driver quality is really not bad, have tried the 10mm on some generic shell and it was quite impressive


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> The comfort is definitely better and they are way less cumbersome this way.
> 
> I think they look a bit weirder on the ear without it.
> 
> It was steady enough when i tested it, but i need to take it for a walk to see if i need to mod it a better "memory wire" instead or just keep the wire naked.



Have you ever seen the 'beads' on the ATE? Instead of a memory wire, the beads add a bit of weight to the cable and keep with wires weighed down.

I'm working on a simple DIY version to use for cases like the ZSx when the memory wire is removed.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> After a long and painful buying freeze i ordered a pair of the KZ EDR2 for my kid, who loses Apple earbuds at an astounding rate. Naturally, I tested 'em out on arrival and damn, they're awfully good for five bucks, with a surprisingly balanced signature and natural-sounding highs. Like the best KZs, they image very well and actually have better top-to bottom coherence (albeit less oomph) than their pricier labelmates. Decided to keep 'em--don't tell my kid.



I have the EDR1, and it is easily my favorite out of the ED line (between the ED3, ED4, EDSE, etc - not the ED9).


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> Have you ever seen the 'beads' on the ATE? Instead of a memory wire, the beads add a bit of weight to the cable and keep with wires weighed down.
> 
> I'm working on a simple DIY version to use for cases like the ZSx when the memory wire is removed.



Yea, its the same think on the ATR.  It's easy to think about stuff if you don't mind it being ugly, i'm trying to think about something which would look nice as well.


----------



## HungryPanda

I don't mind the beads but saying that half the headphones I have look ugly but sound amazing


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 5, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> But if the sound can can match the K3 Pro. I've saved up another $100 lol
> 
> Is the ZSE as detailed as ZS5? Also does it feel that it's more coherant too? For ZS5, I can feel that's a bit too layered


As I'm still burning-in the ZSE, I took another listen today and I can say that the hi-end details can extend just as far as the ZS5 and even better depending on certain genre's, thanks to the transducer side of the chamber, but the ZS5 is slightly brighter on the upper-midrange, which gives them a slightly better coherency. But, the ZSE has a better sonic-like impact in the overall spectrum (thanks to the built in sub-woofers) that certainly can be addictive. Finally I can say that the ZSE raises the bar on what you can get for a cheaper price.


----------



## 1clearhead

waveriderhawaii said:


> Same for me brah. Love @1clearhead. Perhaps half of my 30 earphones were bought due to him. Never been disappointed and have been amazed many time.


Thanks my 'waverider' brotha.....glad to see you back!


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> After a long and painful buying freeze i ordered a pair of the KZ EDR2 for my kid, who loses Apple earbuds at an astounding rate. Naturally, I tested 'em out on arrival and damn, they're awfully good for five bucks, with a surprisingly balanced signature and natural-sounding highs. Like the best KZs, they image very well and actually have better top-to bottom coherence (albeit less oomph) than their pricier labelmates. Decided to keep 'em--don't tell my kid.



There's a reason I was hyping them up back in the day and why they're one of my favorites. It's not simply an EDSE re-colored as some have said. Glad you're enjoying them.


----------



## 1clearhead

chi-fi mel said:


> I noticed you rated the "upgraded" MEMT X5 as your second favorite dynamic headphone. I love my MEMT X5, but how do I know if I have the upgraded version?


The newer version has a wider nozzle, which now can accept wide-bore tips, an extra set of larger double-flange ear tips, and carries a "tag" near the L-jack.


----------



## loomisjohnson

B9Scrambler said:


> There's a reason I was hyping them up back in the day and why they're one of my favorites. It's not simply an EDSE re-colored as some have said. Glad you're enjoying them.


the edr2 distinguish themselves from its brethren by its "audiophile" tuning, which is to say that no part of the spectrum is emphasized and there's suprisingly little coloration for such a cheapo. now, if i had to pick a low-end kz for a long hike or the subway, i might still grab the edse or hds3, which are cruder but less sedate, but if your goal is accurate reproduction of the recording, these work surprisingly well.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 4, 2017)

can someone let me know which Comply foam tips to buy for my KZ ZS5's?  I'm really loving their sound....but the tips are not comfortable in my ears.


[edit]

oh wait...I think I found the info:
http://www.complyfoam.com/zs5/


----------



## Slater (Aug 4, 2017)

Viber said:


> Yea, its the same think on the ATR.  It's easy to think about stuff if you don't mind it being ugly, i'm trying to think about something which would look nice as well.



What I plan on doing is using these stainless steel ball chain ends:



Slip the wire through the slot, and then fill in the cavity using a bit of epoxy or resin (I can even mix w/a bit of arts/craft metallic powder to match the color of the stainless steel bead).

The epoxy/resin will hold it in place right where I want it. It will end up looking very similar to the bead on the ATE/ATR, with the weight of the epoxy-filled bead being about the same. I don't think the stock bead on the ATE is ugly, but I know some people don't like it.

The ball chain ends are about a penny each, and come in a variety of sizes. I ordered a large enough size so there is no risk of damage or rubbing against the cable.


----------



## CoiL

VinceHill24 said:


> How to make just about any future KZ IEM ? ...
> First get these
> 
> 
> ...



It is long time known that there are KZ drivers being sold separately but mixing them up and doing proper cross-overs is another (and much more difficult to get right) story.
I`ve been modding some KZś in the past and know well that even if drivers look same they may sound different in exactly same shells. And even if You get somehow cross-overs working, putting all those drivers in one shell and under right angles, right dampers or port hole fabrics/holes is another quite difficult thing to get right.
Just putting drivers together and smashing them into shell is not the way to go...


----------



## CoiL

toddy0191 said:


> Just been a tip rolling with the ZSEs and have settled on the generic foams that are ubiquitous on Aliexpress.
> With the foams they seem to sound more balanced albeit with elevated bass.
> The mids have great texture with instruments and vocals sounding very natural.
> The bass  is quick and well defined after some burning. It's also the most prominent part of the ZSEs signature *sometimes intruding on the mids, but only slightly*.
> ...



Hmmm... will put on hold @ AE


----------



## Saoshyant

This reminds me, I need to find a shell for an 8.5mm dynamic as a pair of IEMs I had came apart at the seams due to lack , and have been replaced since.  I figure it could be a fun project, and I quite enjoyed the original sound.


----------



## Slater

Saoshyant said:


> This reminds me, I need to find a shell for an 8.5mm dynamic as a pair of IEMs I had came apart at the seams due to lack , and have been replaced since.  I figure it could be a fun project, and I quite enjoyed the original sound.



Nice - there are lots of good looking shell options on AE.


----------



## CoiL

On another note... it is quite surprising or even "funny" how KZ has "moved on" with their SQ and some ppl discrediting some single dynamic KZs.

Been listening to my ZS5 (regular cable and starline tips) with my DX5X and desk gear some time now and did comparison to my all time favourite KZ ATE 2nd gen FF-mod and I would even dare to say that they sound 99% same regarding soundstage width and depth, imaging, transparency, layering, details. 
I do notice difference though in highs accuracy - only fault I find in FF-mod is highs graininess with some recordings hi freq instruments and cymbal (or like) sounds.
Truly amazing single driver from KZ I would say.... if modded with "hardware" tuned shells, port holes and used with right tips.

More and more I spend time in this IEM business and modding - more I come into conclusion that there is no need for BA drivers or many DD+ BA together to get truly quality sound.
Single dynamic, if done right, can sound truly hi-end hi-fi.... belive it or not


----------



## CYoung234

CoiL said:


> On another note... it is quite surprising or even "funny" how KZ has "moved on" with their SQ and some ppl discrediting some single dynamic KZs.
> 
> Been listening to my ZS5 (regular cable and starline tips) with my DX5X and desk gear some time now and did comparison to my all time favourite KZ ATE 2nd gen FF-mod and I would even dare to say that they sound 99% same regarding soundstage width and depth, imaging, transparency, layering, details.
> I do notice difference though in highs accuracy - only fault I find in FF-mod is highs graininess with some recordings hi freq instruments and cymbal (or like) sounds.
> ...



But 11 is one more than 10....

Sorry! You have a good argument though. More drivers does not necessarily mean better sound. That said, I really like my ZS5's and my **** XBAs. I need to burn them both in more, but I am burning in my MyGeeks right now to see if the sound will open up on them...


----------



## groucho69

CYoung234 said:


> But 11 is one more than 10....
> 
> Sorry! You have a good argument though. More drivers does not necessarily mean better sound. That said, I really like my ZS5's and my **** XBAs. I need to burn them both in more, but I am burning in my MyGeeks right now to see if the sound will open up on them...


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> What I plan on doing is using these stainless steel ball chain ends:
> 
> 
> Slip the wire through the slot, and then fill in the cavity using a bit of epoxy or resin (I can even mix w/a bit of arts/craft metallic powder to match the color of the stainless steel bead).
> ...



I just went for a walk with the ZS3 and i don't think there's a need for this operation, i just use a shirt clip right under the splitter and the wire stays put.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I just went for a walk with the ZS3 and i don't think there's a need for this operation, i just use a shirt clip right under the splitter and the wire stays put.



I have more trouble with the ZS5 staying put than the ZS3 or ZST (ZST fits the best with the memory wire delete, I assume due to the 90-degree ends).


----------



## Vidal

CoiL said:


> Single dynamic, if done right, can sound truly hi-end hi-fi.... belive it or not



I wholeheartedly agree with this statement an example that springs to mind Ty Hi Z G3 which are excellent simple and uncomplicated earphones.


----------



## 1clearhead

Well? Another day with the newest KZ, the KZ ZSE and these IEM's are just phenomenal at 100 hours burning time! They have completely set new standards on quality sound versus price for me. They are generally a slight V-shape to balanced sound with very nice and quick sounding bass that has quality sub-bass and can easily match many more expensive earphones. The openness of the midrange and extended treble makes them very competitive against any dynamic and BA combo....No joke! And KZ did a very find job at making a uniquely looking unit with very, and mean a VERY competitive sound signature. These IEM's are hard to put down....I just keep grabbing these, since they are becoming very addictive to me. Eerily, I'm starting to hear details from the upper-range that's not audible on some of my much pricier IEM's, which makes me incredibly happy to have these at hand and is starting to make me a believer of the SPECS they represent on the 20 to 45Khz frequency they offer.

These are a winner in my personal hunt for best budget Chinese IEM's so far! ....Cheers! 


-Clear


----------



## Sylmar

I got the ZSE and had a short listen but man those microphonics are killing it for me right now. Foams seem to tame it a bit but still annoyingly present. I wished they would have used a different more flexible cable like the ZS5 has.


----------



## IamMe90

Sylmar said:


> I got the ZSE and had a short listen but man those microphonics are killing it for me right now. Foams seem to tame it a bit but still annoyingly present. I wished they would have used a different more flexible cable like the ZS5 has.



Turn up the volume and you won't notice the microphonics as much...


----------



## Sylmar (Aug 5, 2017)

IamMe90 said:


> Turn up the volume and you won't notice the microphonics as much...



I usually do. 

Problem is that I also listen to ambient electronic music and there it´s very notable. I only hope that with use the cables will become more flexible or they do a revision. I must admit that maybe most people won´t think about this as annoying but microphonics are really a pet peeve of mine.

Edit: I swapped around the L and R unit and use them overear instead. Much better. The sound of the IEM is pleasant and clear but I need to listen more.


----------



## trumpethead

1clearhead said:


> Well? Another day with the newest KZ, the KZ ZSE and these IEM's are just phenomenal at 100 hours burning time! They have completely set new standards on quality sound versus price for me. They are generally a slight V-shape to balanced sound with very nice and quick sounding bass that has quality sub-bass and can easily match many more expensive earphones. The openness of the midrange and extended treble makes them very competitive against any dynamic and BA combo....No joke! And KZ did a very find job at making a uniquely looking unit with very, and mean a VERY competitive sound signature. These IEM's are hard to put down....I just keep grabbing these, since they are becoming very addictive to me. Eerily, I'm starting to hear details from the upper-range that's not audible on some of my much pricier IEM's, which makes me incredibly happy to have these at hand and is starting to make me a believer of the SPECS they represent on the 20 to 45Khz frequency they offer.
> 
> These are a winner in my personal hunt for best budget Chinese IEM's so far! ....Cheers!
> 
> ...



Ok, ok...I get it. Resistance is Futile! Thanks AGAIN Clear!! Lmbo!


----------



## mono-type

1clearhead said:


> Well? Another day with the newest KZ, the KZ ZSE and these IEM's are just phenomenal at 100 hours burning time! They have completely set new standards on quality sound versus price for me. They are generally a slight V-shape to balanced sound with very nice and quick sounding bass that has quality sub-bass and can easily match many more expensive earphones. The openness of the midrange and extended treble makes them very competitive against any dynamic and BA combo....No joke! And KZ did a very find job at making a uniquely looking unit with very, and mean a VERY competitive sound signature. These IEM's are hard to put down....I just keep grabbing these, since they are becoming very addictive to me. Eerily, I'm starting to hear details from the upper-range that's not audible on some of my much pricier IEM's, which makes me incredibly happy to have these at hand and is starting to make me a believer of the SPECS they represent on the 20 to 45Khz frequency they offer.
> 
> These are a winner in my personal hunt for best budget Chinese IEM's so far! ....Cheers!
> 
> ...


Seems like you really love your ZSE a lot. 

Man, I can't wait for my ZSE to arrive (I bet it will be delivered next week).


----------



## Ynot1

trumpethead said:


> Ok, ok...I get it. Resistance is Futile! Thanks AGAIN Clear!! Lmbo!



I'll be the devil's advocate, but really I'm being the angel's advocate by saying what about the funds for the ZSR. It is slated to have the latest and greatest things known to audible science. But at six US bucks and change it is a defeating argument.


----------



## aisalen

Ynot1 said:


> I'll be the devil's advocate, but really I'm being the angel's advocate by saying what about the funds for the ZSR. It is slated to have the latest and greatest things known to audible science. But at six US bucks and change it is a defeating argument.


Do you have a link of what ZSR is look like?


----------



## Viber

Sylmar said:


> I got the ZSE and had a short listen but man those microphonics are killing it for me right now. Foams seem to tame it a bit but still annoyingly present. I wished they would have used a different more flexible cable like the ZS5 has.



Every time people complain about microfonics i wonder if i'm the only one who is aware of the existence of shirt clips.


----------



## Sylmar

Viber said:


> Every time people complain about microfonics i wonder if i'm the only one who is aware of the existence of shirt clips.



Shirt clip I added didn't make a big difference. I always use shirt clips cable down. Switching L/R units and using them overear did.


----------



## chinmie

Viber said:


> Every time people complain about microfonics i wonder if i'm the only one who is aware of the existence of shirt clips.





Sylmar said:


> Shirt clip I added didn't make a big difference. I always use shirt clips cable down. Switching L/R units and using them overear did.



to reduce microphonics, rather than using shirt clip, it is better to make a chin slider (if your IEMs/buds doesn't have them already)


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> Well? Another day with the newest KZ, the KZ ZSE and these IEM's are just phenomenal at 100 hours burning time! They have completely set new standards on quality sound versus price for me. They are generally a slight V-shape to balanced sound with very nice and quick sounding bass that has quality sub-bass and can easily match many more expensive earphones. The openness of the midrange and extended treble makes them very competitive against any dynamic and BA combo....No joke! And KZ did a very find job at making a uniquely looking unit with very, and mean a VERY competitive sound signature. These IEM's are hard to put down....I just keep grabbing these, since they are becoming very addictive to me. Eerily, I'm starting to hear details from the upper-range that's not audible on some of my much pricier IEM's, which makes me incredibly happy to have these at hand and is starting to make me a believer of the SPECS they represent on the 20 to 45Khz frequency they offer.
> 
> These are a winner in my personal hunt for best budget Chinese IEM's so far! ....Cheers!
> 
> ...



Damn You... I`m having dilemma with ZSE... grrrr


----------



## 1clearhead

Viber said:


> Every time people complain about microfonics i wonder if i'm the only one who is aware of the existence of shirt clips.


+1 ...Yup, shirt-clip does the trick.


----------



## 1clearhead

chinmie said:


> to reduce microphonics, rather than using shirt clip, it is better to make a chin slider (if your IEMs/buds doesn't have them already)


+1 Shirt-clip + chin-slider = satisfaction


----------



## Ynot1

aisalen said:


> Do you have a link of what ZSR is look like?



Not yet. Only speculation that I know of is this, there will be less than or equal to 5 drivers per channel; and knowing what KZ has been known for 
for squeezing everything out of the drivers in their inventory as well as skillfully acquiring new technology drivers, it will be interesting.


----------



## Deveraux

CoiL said:


> 1st - You definitely had faulty ED9
> 
> 2nd - ZS5 & ZST are best KZ atm. ZST for more V-shaped signature and bass lovers, ZS5 for more balance.



I don't think I had a faulty one. Only after getting them, I read a few other people also having the same opinion about it. 

ZS5 is the best absolute best right? Much better than ED9 I suppose?



slaterlovesspam said:


> That's too bad. It's easy to mod the ED9 to get killer sound and clean yet skull crushing bass.



Honestly, I can't/don't know anything about modding earphones or headphones at all. And that was not an option that time as I was only 15 and had limited resources. Can't take a risk


----------



## groucho69

CoiL said:


> Damn You... I`m having dilemma with ZSE... grrrr


----------



## -sandro-

I still don't understand the difference in sound signature between the zs5 ans zse and what one should get between those two...


----------



## Deveraux

Can somebody please help me with the link for ZS5 with the upgrade cable? Confused between AE and Gearbest and there a lot of sellers. Please help me choose the best seller.


----------



## groucho69

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...a9-457c-a411-1308bcd8ed92&transAbTest=ae803_2

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...97-4dd8-9268-abcf4f1170b3&transAbTest=ae803_2

http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## mochill

Will get the upgrade cable in Orange for the zs5 and also getting the zse


----------



## ridwan47

1clearhead said:


> Well? Another day with the newest KZ, the KZ ZSE and these IEM's are just phenomenal at 100 hours burning time! They have completely set new standards on quality sound versus price for me. They are generally a slight V-shape to balanced sound with very nice and quick sounding bass that has quality sub-bass and can easily match many more expensive earphones. The openness of the midrange and extended treble makes them very competitive against any dynamic and BA combo....No joke! And KZ did a very find job at making a uniquely looking unit with very, and mean a VERY competitive sound signature. These IEM's are hard to put down....I just keep grabbing these, since they are becoming very addictive to me. Eerily, I'm starting to hear details from the upper-range that's not audible on some of my much pricier IEM's, which makes me incredibly happy to have these at hand and is starting to make me a believer of the SPECS they represent on the 20 to 45Khz frequency they offer.
> 
> These are a winner in my personal hunt for best budget Chinese IEM's so far! ....Cheers!
> 
> ...



Could you please tell how you burn in your buds? Also are these better than ATE?


----------



## mochill

http://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in


----------



## Deveraux

groucho69 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...a9-457c-a411-1308bcd8ed92&transAbTest=ae803_2
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...97-4dd8-9268-abcf4f1170b3&transAbTest=ae803_2
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html



Thanks a lot. Why is the price on Gearbest so low? Will there be any quality differences? Which is more safer ? I mean less prone to receiving defective products?

And the blue version is costlier by 2 dollars or so. Amy idea why? To me grey looks better


----------



## Damikiller37

Deveraux said:


> Thanks a lot. Why is the price on Gearbest so low? Will there be any quality differences? Which is more safer ? I mean less prone to receiving defective products?
> 
> And the blue version is costlier by 2 dollars or so. Amy idea why? To me grey looks better



You'll be fine to order from GearBest. I got mine using that link and they are just fine. They just happen to have deals for ZS5s quite often (I got the grey ones as well). I made a post about my experience with Gearbest and the ZS5s HERE.


----------



## groucho69

Deveraux said:


> Thanks a lot. Why is the price on Gearbest so low? Will there be any quality differences? Which is more safer ? I mean less prone to receiving defective products?
> 
> And the blue version is costlier by 2 dollars or so. Amy idea why? To me grey looks better



Gearbest often have flash sales. I don't think the chance of defect is higher no matter from which you order. 

Save your $2 and get grey. They sound the same.


----------



## Slater

Deveraux said:


> Honestly, I can't/don't know anything about modding earphones or headphones at all. And that was not an option that time as I was only 15 and had limited resources. Can't take a risk



Do you have a piece of tape and an old stuffed animal? That's all you need to mod them.


----------



## vector84

So I just wanted to share a bit of my adventure with a couple pairs of KZ ZS5s.

I got my first pair in gray about a month ago... now as a point of reference I've been using mostly consumer targeted junk (and even worse, gamer targeted junk at times) for many years now, so my standards ... are probably pretty low.  Anyhow I was immediately very fond of the way they sounded though as I used them over the next few days I found myself keeping the volume at relatively conservative levels as higher frequencies would occasionally seem almost uncomfortably loud at otherwise normal volumes.  Not a huge surprise to me though as I've always been pretty sensitive to high frequency sounds - so much so that as a child I couldn't even stand to be in the same room as a variety of "ultrasound" devices that no one else out of a group of ~20 kids could hear - so I initially just wrote it off as more of the same.

A couple weeks went by and I'd decided I very much liked the way they sounded overall, but something was still bothering me about the highs but I couldn't really say what it was other than to say that occasionally (but not consistently) certain highs would seem obnoxiously loud compared to normal listening volume, bordering on uncomfortable.  There seemed to be something else somewhat "odd" going on at those times too, though as I was usually scrambling to find my volume controls, I couldn't really do a better job of describing it than that.

To make what's already becoming a long story a bit shorter, I began to suspect something wasn't working quite right but lacking anything to compare it with, I opted to do what seemed like the only sensible thing for something in the $20 price range - I ordered another pair - this time in blue.  The blue set arrived a few days ago and on a whim one of the first things I did was fire up the spectral flatness test from audiocheck.  Overall they sounded pretty flat, but no surprise there as I'd been listening to my grey ZS5s for several weeks at that point - but imagine my surprise when the volume didn't spike noticeably at the end.  I grabbed by gray set and popped them in to check again - yup, still obnoxiously loud at the very end.

Now I was convinced that something was indeed wrong with my gray set.  As I pondered this over the next few days (using the blue set) I found myself adjusting my volume levels to be quite a bit higher without any of the almost uncomfortable moments which had previously kept my listening volumes very low.  I eventually dug out an old lav mic I had laying around that I could enclose in a bit of vinyl tubing to take some crude measurements - but with no way of calibrating it, the best I could hope for was a relative comparison of the two.  I expected to come up with very little in the way of anything conclusive, but after taking quite a few samples I found that it generated pretty consistent results.  And what I found was that from around 16-20 kHz my old gray pair do indeed seem to be quite a bit louder than my new blue pair - but worse there's a huge channel imbalance as well, with one side having a similarly shaped curve to my new set, while the other has... a very different shape in that range.  Now I should mention again that none of my testing equipment is particularly intended for this sort of thing, and I honestly expected to come up with nothing conclusive at all, but I took a number of samples and they all showed the same general trend with noticeable differences between the two pairs and with one unit in particular appearing to be widely deviating from the other three.

I've sent a note off to the seller about them, but I'm not sure that I really expect much.  I've had the gray pair for close to a month already and based on my poorly made measurements, it sure looks like the issue is almost entirely isolated to 17+ kHz in just one of the four - so I really wonder if most people would even notice something wrong with them - they certainly sounded great to me when they weren't shrieking in my ears, apparently in frequencies bordering on inaudible.

So there's my story about how my blue and gray pairs don't sound the same to me ...


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Kz qc gg


----------



## smy1

Maybe the zsr will have 12 drivers for $100


----------



## peskypesky

Deveraux said:


> And the blue version is costlier by 2 dollars or so. Amy idea why? To me grey looks better


I got the gray ones...and now wish I'd gotten the blue. The gray ones in person look sort of ugly.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Has anyone tried taping up all the vents on the ZST? If so, what kind of changes did it make to the sound and isolation, if any? 

Also would like a picture of the ZSE while being worn. Are they flat enough for sleeping with?


----------



## TheWongWrong

Btw should I be worried about the gold on my jack kinda fading away?


----------



## Deveraux

Damikiller37 said:


> You'll be fine to order from GearBest. I got mine using that link and they are just fine. They just happen to have deals for ZS5s quite often (I got the grey ones as well). I made a post about my experience with Gearbest and the ZS5s HERE.



Thanks. I'll get from Gearbest then.




slaterlovesspam said:


> Do you have a piece of tape and an old stuffed animal? That's all you need to mod them.



Well, now as I'm going to get the ZS5, is there any mod to make it better? 



groucho69 said:


> Gearbest often have flash sales. I don't think the chance of defect is higher no matter from which you order.
> 
> Save your $2 and get grey. They sound the same.





peskypesky said:


> I got the gray ones...and now wish I'd gotten the blue. The gray ones in person look sort of ugly.



I think after reading these posts (including the one above when he got both of them) I'll get the blue instead. It's only 2$ more anyway  

But tbh from the pictures I like the grey better.


----------



## Deveraux

And somebody please suggest better silicone/foam tips that aren't Comply ? I remember the ones that came the ED9 I didn't like at all.It had some vacuum effect with it which made wearing them very uncomfortable (maybe this is where they cut costs). I really liked those came with my Sony XB75AP.


----------



## 1clearhead

ridwan47 said:


> Could you please tell how you burn in your buds? Also are these better than ATE?


I burn them in on a "loop", playing different types of music day and night "non-stop" -first 20 hours at low volume, 21 to 50 hours at moderate volume, 51 to 100 (plus) hours from moderate to moderately high volume. Others probably use pink or white noise burning technic. At times, I will burn them in while riding to work, or burn them in at work, as well.

Now about comparisons with the ATE: I would say that the ZSE edges them for the realistic bass punch it provides, plus the overall resolution. Coherecy is great on the ATE's upper-range (with the right ear tips), but the ZSE covers a broader range on imaging and hi-end details that can definitely bring out the best of your favorite song(s).


-Clear


----------



## vector84

I didn't mean to imply there should be any *actual *difference between colors - just that one of my gray ones happened to be (mildly) defective.

I will add that I ordered the gray ones first because I liked the way they looked in the pictures more. In person I feel like the gray ones always look a bit dirty, whereas the blue ones look much brighter and cleaner - and this was an immediate impression upon opening the box, long before I could form an opinion based on how they actually sounded.


----------



## Viber

ZSE are finally listed at Gearbest, but not yet in stock.


----------



## Deveraux

vector84 said:


> I didn't mean to imply there should be any *actual *difference between colors - just that one of my gray ones happened to be (mildly) defective.
> 
> I will add that I ordered the gray ones first because I liked the way they looked in the pictures more. In person I feel like the gray ones always look a bit dirty, whereas the blue ones look much brighter and cleaner - and this was an immediate impression upon opening the box, long before I could form an opinion based on how they actually sounded.



I want to reduce the chance of receiving a defect at all costs. Also blue is the better looking one as per you and a few others. So it's worth the 2$ I hope.


BTW, the lowest price is on Banggood at 23$ for the blue version with mic. Where do you suggest I buy it? Gearbest or Banggood? Please help.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Gearbest is the cheapest place for kz from my experience.  Been buying from them over the past 2 years with no problem.


----------



## Viber

SomeTechNoob said:


> Gearbest is the cheapest place for kz from my experience.  Been buying from them over the past 2 years with no problem.



Yea, i also always have some points there from past purchases as well so it comes out even cheaper.
I paid like 4$ for my 2nd pair of ZS3.


----------



## likejehu

Hello.  I have question to people, who familiar with both zst and zs5.
I dont like punchy bass  and harsh treble. 
So, i need to choose most neutral\balanced one. 
Is there noticeable difference between them?
sorry for my english.


----------



## snip3r77

Viber said:


> ZSE are finally listed at Gearbest, but not yet in stock.


I'd wait for their special price


----------



## Deveraux

Right now it's the cheapest on Banggood. Still better to buy from Gearbest?


----------



## vector84

Wouldn't really expect QC to be better or worse by color... though I admit reality is not required to be logical.

Anyhow, from lurking around here I've seen a lot more good said about Gearbest customer service - but they have a rep that hangs out here, so that's not entirely unexpected?
Still if you're worried about QC they certainly seem to have a better reputation for good service around here at least.

I opted to save about $2 each and got both of mine from Banggood (slightly cheaper after shipping etc) - the jury is still out on whether that was the best choice or not (haven't heard back yet about my grey pair) but they arrived within the advertised shipping times and for the most part they work.  Can't really ask much more of something shipped dirt cheap direct from China?


Also I simply described my experience which make the problem sound rather annoying and quite prominent but I should probably add that my rather extreme high frequency sensitivity is pretty atypical.  I frequently hear noise coming from devices that anyone I've ever met would describe as entirely silent, and back in college I recall having to step out of labs at times due people playing around with high frequency sounds that were either entirely inaudible or of obnoxious but not particularly uncomfortable volumes depending on who you asked - but to me they sounded like the wail of a banshee and left my ears ringing like a close proximity gunshot.

I'm trying to make this point without sounding like "my hearing is better than yours" but I feel like doing a pretty poor job of it (and honestly it's a curse not a blessing to have that much apparent gain across a narrow high frequency band).  Anyhow I would imagine that what I've described as quite uncomfortable would be described by most people as "a bit too bright" or similar.


----------



## 1clearhead

The good part about the ZSE is that I got "two pairs" now and there's no sign of "QC" issues so far....fingers crossed! 

....I really like the KZ brand, but they are too quick putting out their products before doing a thorough "quality control" after each launch.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 6, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> I think after reading these posts (including the one above when he got both of them) I'll get the blue instead. It's only 2$ more anyway
> 
> But tbh from the pictures I like the grey better.



in real life, the gray ones look like part of a car engine....like a carburetor part. Not sexy at all.

Now, my Rock Zircons...they are sexy.


----------



## zozito

Ordered a pair of zse's...owning zs3, zst and zs5...


----------



## Ynot1 (Aug 6, 2017)

KSE is dual dynamic so how does this compare on a level playing field with the likes of Havi B3, TTPOD, TennMak Pro, and Somic V4?

Disclosure: I have none of them, but I read headfi.


----------



## vladstef

zozito said:


> Ordered a pair of zse's...owning zs3, zst and zs5...


I did the same, even though I have ZS5. They cost me 5e, let's see if they can compare at all. If they can, it's a small miracle to be honest, and it looks like they can.


----------



## HungryPanda

i have ZST, ZS5 and KZ HDS3. Had ZS3 but my wife snaffled them. Waiting on ZSE


----------



## Skullophile

Zs5 finally showed up on Amazon Canada so...


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> Wouldn't really expect QC to be better or worse by color... though I admit reality is not required to be logical.
> 
> Anyhow, from lurking around here I've seen a lot more good said about Gearbest customer service - but they have a rep that hangs out here, so that's not entirely unexpected?
> Still if you're worried about QC they certainly seem to have a better reputation for good service around here at least.
> ...



I guess getting older will be an advantage for you as you lose the highs and lows.


----------



## groucho69

Skullophile said:


> Zs5 finally showed up on Amazon Canada so...



Then I guess we'll see ZSE around Christmas?


----------



## Skullophile

I gotta find a way around that problem or this will be me on Christmas day.
Pretty much will be anyway lolol.


----------



## groucho69

Skullophile said:


> I gotta find a way around that problem or this will be me on Christmas day.
> Pretty much will be anyway lolol.



You wait for Christmas?


----------



## Skullophile

Its the ultimate irony. Wait friggin ages for two day shipping.


----------



## groucho69

Skullophile said:


> Its the ultimate irony. Wait friggin ages for two day shipping.



As long as you're not waiting for beer.


----------



## 1clearhead

If KZ ZSE had detachable cables and an alloy metallic housing, these would be a mean set of earphones.

 I might just ask the KZ company if this is possible to make....call it: KZ ZSE-LE (limited edition).


----------



## Slater

Deveraux said:


> Well, now as I'm going to get the ZS5, is there any mod to make it better?



1. Comply-style foam tips provide the best sound.
2. Comfort-wise, removing the memory wire helps a lot.
3. While I feel the bass is well proportioned overall, if you want more bass 'oomph' you can tape off the front vent hole (ie the small round hole by the nozzle).
4. I'm not a fan of the stock wire - I prefer the ~$5 silver upgrade wire. Lower impedance, less microphonics, softer feel. No mic though.

Other than those things, I'm sure you'll be happy with them (as-is or modded).


----------



## Slater

likejehu said:


> Hello.  I have question to people, who familiar with both zst and zs5.
> I dont like punchy bass  and harsh treble.
> So, i need to choose most neutral\balanced one.
> Is there noticeable difference between them?
> sorry for my english.



Neither of those are the most neutral/balanced KZ IEM.

Are you hellbent on choosing between those 2 IEMs only?


----------



## nplateau

1clearhead said:


> If KZ ZSE had detachable cables and an alloy metallic housing, these would be a mean set of earphones.
> 
> I might just ask the KZ company if this is possible to make....call it: KZ ZSE-LE (limited edition).



I could see myself paying $15-$20 for that if to my ears the ZSE lives up to the impressive reviews here so far.


----------



## 1clearhead

...okay, my Chinese colleague just chatted with a representative from KZ (Knowledge Zenith). Let's hope the LE becomes reality! ....Cheers!


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> ...okay, my Chinese colleague just chatted with a representative from KZ (Knowledge Zenith). Let's hope the LE becomes reality! ....Cheers!


I'd wait for this


----------



## hoerlurar

So has anyone else tried the KZ bluetooth module?
I'm thinking about buying one but can't decide if i want one for zs3 or zst.

Has anyone used a zst cable for zs3? i guess you'd only need to do a little dremel-work for it to fit?


----------



## chi-fi mel

peskypesky said:


> in real life, the gray ones look like part of a car engine....like a carburetor part. Not sexy at all.
> 
> Now, my Rock Zircons...they are sexy.


I have Rock Zircons - never cared much for their look. I won't use mine because I have many better sounding pairs that cost about the same. I ordered the gray ZS5 to save money even though I think the blue ones look better.


----------



## Detectit

Ordered the ZSE also. Just curious what it's all about...
Wanted to try out another brand, but KZ is triggering me al the time.

Better to buy some stock shares... 

I don't mind the material... Sound quality over design. That what's counting for me.


----------



## peskypesky

chi-fi mel said:


> I have Rock Zircons - never cared much for their look. I won't use mine because I have many better sounding pairs that cost about the same. I ordered the gray ZS5 to save money even though I think the blue ones look better.



send them to me!
I'll trade you for some ZS5s. After doing some A/B comparisons, I prefer the sound of the Zircons.


----------



## Viber

My ZS3 are at least 1 level above the Rock Zircon.


----------



## Viber

ZSE is available now @ Gearbest for 6.2$ btw.


----------



## Sylmar

1clearhead said:


> If KZ ZSE had detachable cables and an alloy metallic housing, these would be a mean set of earphones.
> 
> I might just ask the KZ company if this is possible to make....call it: KZ ZSE-LE (limited edition).



Great idea. I'd love a ZSE with metal housing and detachable (more flexible!!!) cables.


----------



## Detectit (Aug 7, 2017)

Viber said:


> ZSE is available now @ Gearbest for 6.2$ btw.


5.10 Euro on Aliexpress.

Sorry 6.06 dollar on AE. Was thinking in Euro's.


----------



## Viber

Detectit said:


> 5.10 on Aliexpress.



I just did a search there but did not find it.


----------



## chi-fi mel

peskypesky said:


> send them to me!
> I'll trade you for some ZS5s. After doing some A/B comparisons, I prefer the sound of the Zircons.





peskypesky said:


> send them to me!
> I'll trade you for some ZS5s. After doing some A/B comparisons, I prefer the sound of the Zircons.


I'll do that although it won't have any accessories and will have Starline tips because I use the RZ tips on my Swing 800.


----------



## groucho69

1clearhead said:


> ...okay, my Chinese colleague just chatted with a representative from KZ (Knowledge Zenith). Let's hope the LE becomes reality! ....Cheers!


KZ ZSE-CLEAR


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> Great idea. I'd love a ZSE with metal housing and detachable (more flexible!!!) cables.



And a properly tuned crossover.


----------



## mono-type

Sylmar said:


> Great idea. I'd love a ZSE with metal housing and detachable (more flexible!!!) cables.


Same here. I would look forward to an upgraded version of the ZSE, if ever KZ will make one. The detachable cables are one thing I would like to see in an upgraded ZSE.


----------



## 1clearhead

slaterlovesspam said:


> And a properly tuned crossover.


+1 ...tuned crossover is always a good thing.


----------



## nocchi

Move aside ZS5


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 7, 2017)

....though I still truly like both the ZSE and the ZS5, they're are both really good at their price ranges. But, the ZSE for only 40 to 49RMB ($5 to $6 US dollars) is just insane.


----------



## Deveraux

vector84 said:


> Wouldn't really expect QC to be better or worse by color... though I admit reality is not required to be logical.
> 
> *Anyhow, from lurking around here I've seen a lot more good said about Gearbest customer service - but they have a rep that hangs out here, so that's not entirely unexpected?
> Still if you're worried about QC they certainly seem to have a better reputation for good service around here at least.*
> ...


Ordered from Gearbest  

Haha I can understand the feeling. It'd be so difficult to get the right pair of earphones.



peskypesky said:


> in real life, the gray ones look like part of a car engine....like a carburetor part. Not sexy at all.
> 
> Now, my Rock Zircons...they are sexy.



Yeaah those look beautiful. Do they sound good as well (compared to ZS5? ) ?



slaterlovesspam said:


> 1. Comply-style foam tips provide the best sound.
> 2. Comfort-wise, removing the memory wire helps a lot.
> 3. While I feel the bass is well proportioned overall, if you want more bass 'oomph' you can tape off the front vent hole (ie the small round hole by the nozzle).
> 4. I'm not a fan of the stock wire - I prefer the ~$5 silver upgrade wire. Lower impedance, less microphonics, softer feel. No mic though.
> ...



I thought of getting a pair of foam tips but I had to pay shipping for it separately from the same seller. Didn't make sense. Guess it's better to buy a few of them together. 
I've ordered the silver cable too. 
I'll try that once I receive it.

Thanks a lot for the help!  



nocchi said:


> Move aside ZS5



Whaat? A newer model? 

Heck, I just ordered one ZS5! Should I cancel it and wait for this?!


----------



## B9Scrambler

nocchi said:


> Move aside ZS5



lmao....if people were ticked about the ZS5 ripping on the Andromeda, they've got a whole new can of fuel to sip on now  This is going to be fun.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 10, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> Yeaah those look beautiful. Do they sound good as well (compared to ZS5? ) ?



To my ears, the Zircons sound better than the ZS5's. As do the KZ ED9s. But everyone has different tastes.

I like a robust sound, with solid bass and clear trebles. Both the Zircons and ED9s perform better than the ZS5 with my equipment: Benjie S5 and FiiO X1.


[edit]
I think I had a a phase or polarity issue with my ZS5s. They were sounding anemic, but i plugged the cords back in and they are now sounding much much better.


----------



## Viber

peskypesky said:


> To my ears, the Zircons sound better than the ZS5's. As do the KZ ED9s. But everyone has different tastes.
> 
> I like a robust sound, with solid bass and clear trebles. Both the Zircons and ED9s perform better than the ZS5 with my equipment: Benjie S5 and FiiO X1.



I would recommend the GGMM Cuckoo over the Zircons:
-about the same size.
-similar bassy signature but with better mids at the cost of less treble.
-better wire and seems to be more durable. 
-much less dependent on perfect insertion and seal. It's almost like an earbud.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 7, 2017)

nocchi said:


> Move aside ZS5


Found out what these are... disappointed it's not an even more blatant copy by our true and only KZ.


----------



## khighly

hoerlurar said:


> So has anyone else tried the KZ bluetooth module?
> I'm thinking about buying one but can't decide if i want one for zs3 or zst.
> 
> Has anyone used a zst cable for zs3? i guess you'd only need to do a little dremel-work for it to fit?


Don't waste your money. I used mine for a few days before giving it up completely and I had the new 4.2 version. Skipping, only 1.5hr playback time, distorts easily.

It's every reason why I'm going to be very angry if the new Pixel has no headphone jack.


----------



## khighly

nocchi said:


> Move aside ZS5


What were these? Anyone have the picture downloaded?


----------



## Detectit

Googled on Delta C as that's the logo.. Nothing... Pic. Upload nothing.

IEM? Looks like a copy ZS5... So maybe Also nothing.

If the poster would be so nice to be informative instead of playing Mr. Mysterious.?


----------



## vladstef

Does anyone know the best way to fix a cable with reversed polarity on one side, I am talking about ZS5 upgrade cable? I don't think it would be wise to try and open the plastic connector and reconnect wires properly, so I'm thinking about just plugging that side reversed. Now the pins are correct and the sound is correct, but connector has circular shape on one side and squared on the other, when you reverse them, they won't go in as far as they should and they easily disconnect. Has anyone with similar issues tried to perhaps cut some of the plastic around the pins, maybe make round side squared as well so that the cable at least goes deep enough?


----------



## vladstef (Aug 7, 2017)

This gray/blue ZS5 like IEM is new Campfire Audio Polaris, that's why they have CA logo, will cost >500$.


----------



## Detectit

vladstef said:


> Does anyone know the best way to fix a cable with reversed polarity on one side, I am talking about ZS5 upgrade cable? I don't think it would be wise to try and open the plastic connector and reconnect wires properly, so I'm thinking about just plugging that side reversed. Now the pins are correct and the sound is correct, but connector has circular shape on one side and squared on the other, when you reverse them, they won't go in as far as they should and they easily disconnect. Has anyone with similar issues tried to perhaps cut some of the plastic around the pins, maybe make round side squared as well so that the cable at least goes deep enough?



Haven't done it. But cut out the small side would be sufficient.


----------



## Detectit

vladstef said:


> This gray/blue ZS5 like IEM is new Campfire IEM, will cost >500$


Ohhh so it will eat the hart out of my wallet too. 
OK... Post irrelevant..


----------



## Viber (Aug 7, 2017)

1clearhead said:


> ...okay, my Chinese colleague just chatted with a representative from KZ (Knowledge Zenith). Let's hope the LE becomes reality! ....Cheers!



You got the connect to the KZ circle and all you ask for is the  ZSE LE???

TELL THEM TO MAKE A RIP OFF OF THE AUDEZE iSINE!!!!   PLANAR MAGNETIC KZ? HERE WE COME!  LETS GO!!!11


----------



## Saoshyant

Viber said:


> You got the connect to the KZ circle and all you ask for is the  ZSE LE???
> 
> TELL THEM TO MAKE A RIP OFF OF THE AUDEZE iSINE!!!!   PLANAR MAGNETIC KZ? HERE WE COME!  LETS GO!!!11



I have a feeling it would not go well


----------



## Arkady Duntov

Sylmar said:


> Great idea. I'd love a ZSE with metal housing and detachable (more flexible!!!) cables.



Also available from a third-party seller through Amazon (US) BUT for $14.99.


----------



## 1clearhead

Arkady Duntov said:


> Also available from a third-party seller through Amazon (US) BUT for $14.99.


You got the link and some PIC's? ....would like to see how they look.


----------



## Slater (Aug 7, 2017)

never mind


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Does anyone know the best way to fix a cable with reversed polarity on one side, I am talking about ZS5 upgrade cable? I don't think it would be wise to try and open the plastic connector and reconnect wires properly, so I'm thinking about just plugging that side reversed. Now the pins are correct and the sound is correct, but connector has circular shape on one side and squared on the other, when you reverse them, they won't go in as far as they should and they easily disconnect. Has anyone with similar issues tried to perhaps cut some of the plastic around the pins, maybe make round side squared as well so that the cable at least goes deep enough?



Easiest/safest way is to fix it at the Y.

You can buy new Y fittings on Aliexpress that will allow it to not only look clean, but to add a chin slider if desired. Most fittings are under $1.

There are many styles and colors available - aluminum, plastic, wood, compact, long, short, etc.

Here's the ones I use (for example): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headphone-cable-upgrade-Fork-sliders-Splitter/2043429027.html

I like the above ones because they are large enough to solder everything comfortably, but not overly bulky. The 2 halves snap together, and can be reused or reopened for service. There's room for strain reliefs, and you can easily enlarge the holes to fit different thickness wire (difficult with the metal style for example). Some of the other Y styles require everything to be glued together, which makes it difficult for future repairs or if you make a mistake (loose connection etc) that doesn't appear until everything is assembled.


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2017)

Received the ZSE today.

They are definitely not 'ZS5 killers', but for the *price* they represent great value vs most other IEMs in the $5-$7 range. As the price naturally drops (likely settling in the $4-$5 range at some point in the future and/or with flash sales etc), they would be a no brainer.

Hype aside, they do have some shortcomings.

If you have small ears you will probably want to pass. The shell is long, and even though it's smooth and rounded (unlike the sharp edges of the ZS5), the body is long and can press on the edge of the ear causing discomfort after extended listening.

Sadly, I couldn't get a long-term secure fit using any silicone tips. Within 5 minutes (or less) after insertion, they would work loose and the sound would suffer to the point where I was jamming them back in every 10 minutes or so. It's not like I was skydiving or doing flips on a trampoline. It loosened when just sitting on the couch. I don't have this issue with any other IEMs. Bumping to the next larger tip size did help, but it didn't completely solve the problem. I settled on foams, despite preferring the sound using silicone tips :0(

The nozzle is small, and seems to be one of those 'in-between' sizes like the ZS3, so many tips don't fit properly. I didn't measure it with calipers yet, but it appears to be 4mm wide. 5mm tips are too loose, and 3mm tips require finagling to get them on (especially 3mm foams).

Because the foam changes the sound, I opted to do minor EQ tweaking to get them to sound like they did with the silicone Starlines.

It's also possible to play around with the placement of the tip on the nozzle to tweak the sound. Similar to the ZST, you can push the tip all the way down the nozzle until it bottoms out against the shell body, or back it off to where it's supposed to go on the nozzle (about halfway up).

Like most down-facing IEMs, they do have some cable microphonics (nothing as ridiculous as the MEMT X5 though LOL).

Finally, they play nice with phones and the like, but they improve with an amp. The bass goes deep and hits hard when required (especially with the Starline tips). If you're a basshead, these can reach skull-crushing levels with no distortion if necessary (ie via EQ, bass-boost, gain, etc). They remind me of the ZS1.

I'm glad I added them to my IEM collection. They look really unique too, so expect to get comments when wearing them.


----------



## 1clearhead

slaterlovesspam said:


> Easiest/safest way is to fix it at the Y.
> 
> You can buy new Y fittings on Aliexpress that will allow it to not only look clean, but to add a chin slider if desired. Most fittings are under $1.
> 
> ...


Nice DIY information! ...This can definitely help when changing to better wires.


----------



## mono-type (Aug 8, 2017)

Received my ZSE today:





Indeed, I really like the design of these IEMs. That's one of the reasons why I bought the ZSE. About the sound, it seems to need a bit of burn-in time, as I'm quite underwhelmed with it (maybe I got too used with the sound of Slater mod ZS3+SPC?). Let's see (hear?) if the sound will shine more if these are given enough time to be burned in. I think for IEMs of this price range, you still can't go wrong with these.


----------



## 1clearhead

slaterlovesspam said:


> Received the ZSE today.
> 
> They are definitely not 'ZS5 killers', but for the *price* they represent great value vs most other IEMs in the $5-$7 range. As the price naturally drops (likely settling in the $4-$5 range at some point in the future and/or with flash sales etc), they would be a no brainer.
> 
> ...


Yea, placing the ear tips where they're suppose to properly go..."back it off to where it's supposed to go on the nozzle", was a better fit for me without pressing them in any further for a comfort fit to the rest of the ear. But then, there's the issue of everyone's ears are proportioned differently. Inserted correctly, they'll give you an awesome V-shape signature with lively vocals and plenty of hi-end details.

....so, let us know how the burn-in process goes for you, since it got better for me after doing so.


----------



## Vidal

So that's two less than spectacular reviews of the ZSE already then  - not the ZS5 killers as advertised. A new KZ earphone is always of interest though mine are still on route


----------



## mono-type (Aug 8, 2017)

Vidal said:


> So that's two less than spectacular reviews of the ZSE already then  - not the ZS5 killers as advertised. A new KZ earphone is always of interest though mine are still on route


YMMV, though. You still have to hear it for yourself. Personally, there's nothing wrong with the sound of the ZSE. It's just that I believe it needs to be burned in to achieve its full potential. Also, for some reason, the ZSE is a bit harder to drive than the ZS3; on my ZS3's, my amp's volume knob is at the 8-9 o'clock position, while on the ZSE, it's on 11 o'clock position.


----------



## Vidal

mono-type said:


> Also, for some reason, the ZSE is a bit harder to drive than the ZS3; on my ZS3's, my amp's volume knob is at the 8-9 o'clock position, while on the ZSE, it's on 11 o'clock position.



Micro drivers seem to need more power


----------



## Viber

mono-type said:


> YMMV, though. You still have to hear it for yourself. Personally, there's nothing wrong with the sound of the ZSE. It's just that I believe it needs to be burned in to achieve its full potential. Also, for some reason, the ZSE is a bit harder to drive than the ZS3; on my ZS3's, my amp's volume knob is at the 8-9 o'clock position, while on the ZSE, it's on 11 o'clock position.



hmmm that's interesting, @1clearhead  said they are louder than the ZS3...


----------



## Vidal

ZSE are here, arrived 30 mins ago. I've been listening to the E-MIs a lot so will take a while to adjust as these are darker.

Cables are terrible for microphonics but swapping L+R means they can be worn over ear. More thoughts later


----------



## Sylmar

Vidal said:


> ZSE are here, arrived 30 mins ago. I've been listening to the E-MIs a lot so will take a while to adjust as these are darker.
> 
> Cables are terrible for microphonics but swapping L+R means they can be worn over ear. More thoughts later



Swapping L+R and wearing them overear is what I did to get rid of the cable noice. Also gives in my case better fit. Normally I use Comply foams but my T200 ones are to loose on the nozzle. I use (faux) Spinfits and these give a great seal.


----------



## Detectit (Aug 8, 2017)

Really?? Do i read "burn in"  terms here...
It will never stop..

I keep it "each their own"


----------



## mono-type

Detectit said:


> Really?? Do i read "burn in"  terms here...
> It will never stop..
> 
> I keep it "each their own"


Hence, YMMV.


----------



## ryokun

Hi guys, I just ordered a ZS5+the upgraded silver cable from a local online shop and I'm expecting it to arrive tomorrow. I heard there's some QC issue? I'm new to the audio scene so I can't really differentiate a faulty unit and a good one. Can someone here help me so I can return the IEM if I get a bad one? Thanks!


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 10, 2017)

Vidal said:


> So that's two less than spectacular reviews of the ZSE already then  - not the ZS5 killers as advertised. A new KZ earphone is always of interest though mine are still on route


Where's that hype train image?


----------



## Vidal (Aug 8, 2017)

ZSE vs ZS5 - ZS5 are superior without question, ZSE lack the resolution and detail of the ZS5s.

The ZSE remind me of the ZS3 (they have more detail than ZS3) in that they're surprisingly good despite being a little warm and not having a huge amount of detail - a low res hero if you will.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 8, 2017)

ryokun said:


> Hi guys, I just ordered a ZS5+the upgraded silver cable from a local online shop and I'm expecting it to arrive tomorrow. I heard there's some QC issue? I'm new to the audio scene so I can't really differentiate a faulty unit and a good one. Can someone here help me so I can return the IEM if I get a bad one? Thanks!


Most of the QC issues with the ZS5 have been phase (polarity) related and have been seen in both cables and the iems themselves (so check for phase issues with both cables).

Make sure you insert the cables the right way first.
Then phase is pretty easy to test and results should be relatively obvious when playing samples - audiocheck.net has some nice tests (a comprehensive headphone suite and a phase specific set) or you could google something like "headphone phase test" and try your luck, most should produce pretty obvious results when switching between in phase and out of phase samples.

If the results from the phase test are switched, you can swap the cable direction on *one* of the iems to fix the issue, though you'll want to modify the cable somehow if you plan to keep using them like that.

Some of the other QC issues that seem quite a bit rarer are going to be harder to pin down.  Fit and tip selection can have a pretty huge impact on their sound, so you'll want to try playing around there for a bit.  If nothing works and they just sound horrible no matter what you do (or just sometimes sound horrible?) then you might suspect one of the rarer QC issues.



And if anyone cares about my adventure, I heard back from Banggood and they told me they test everything before shipping (isn't that what they all say? but...) and given the measurements I provided (some uncalibrated side-by-side frequency response plots) that would appear to be caused by damage during shipping.  So another set is on the way.  Guess a 10 dB channel imbalance was pretty convincing 

If they don't want the old ones back, maybe I should tear them apart and see if there's anything obviously strange going on inside...


----------



## BrunoC (Aug 8, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> Thanks for the tip....but I'm no fan
> 
> Where's that hype train image?
> 
> That being said, I'm pretty underwhelmed with the ZS5s....glad I only paid $17 for them.  I think they sound anemic when compared to my Rock Zircons and KZ ED9s.



Well, in my case, each time it put on the ZS5, it still impresses me with the overall clarity and balanced sound. Also the soundstage is very impressive. YMMV really, but  for me the ZS5 is the best $20 chifi deal.


----------



## ioques

Anyone know a cable for zs3/zs5 with 3 buttons? (Like zs5 pre-sell)


----------



## Arkady Duntov

1clearhead said:


> You got the link and some PIC's? ....would like to see how they look.



https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-****-KZ-ZSE-headphones/dp/B0747S7BFV

[edit: I tried to post an image but it didn't seem to work. I guess I don't know what I'm doing.]


----------



## mono-type (Aug 8, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> Where's that hype train image?.


This post from 13 pages ago. 



Arkady Duntov said:


> [edit: I tried to post an image but it didn't seem to work. I guess I don't know what I'm doing.]


Simply drag the image you want to post on the field where you write your post. Something like this

On a side note, dunno if my ears are just getting used to the sound, but after a few hours of listening to it. I finally appreciate the sound signature the ZSE has. IMO, it's definitely have a warmer and darker sound than the ZS3 (especially when compared to a ZS3 with Slater mod + SPC cable + small stock silicone tips), and that says something, since ZS3 is considered a warm and dark IEM. The sound sig the ZSE had makes it a fun listen.


----------



## Sylmar

Just found out that Etymotic foams go really well with the ZSE. Luckily I had quite a lot lying about.


----------



## khighly

Vidal said:


> So that's two less than spectacular reviews of the ZSE already then  - not the ZS5 killers as advertised. A new KZ earphone is always of interest though mine are still on route


Never go with the very first hype if you're on the edge about an IEM.


----------



## colgateam

I don't quite understand why people are comparing the ZSE and ZS5, they're two completely different parts of a product lineup, aimed at different audiences.
Terms like 'ZS5 killer' make no sense haha.

Whatever keeps people happy I guess.


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> Just found out that Etymotic foams go really well with the ZSE. Luckily I had quite a lot lying about.



How is the comfort with those? They don't appear overly ergonomic, so I'm just curious.


----------



## svil3

colgateam said:


> I don't quite understand why people are comparing the ZSE and ZS5, they're two completely different parts of a product lineup, aimed at different audiences.
> Terms like 'ZS5 killer' make no sense haha.
> 
> Whatever keeps people happy I guess.


+1


----------



## Vidal

colgateam said:


> I don't quite understand why people are comparing the ZSE and ZS5, they're two completely different parts of a product lineup, aimed at different audiences.
> Terms like 'ZS5 killer' make no sense haha.



Because someone said the ZSE were as good as the ZS5 previously, that's why.


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2017)

colgateam said:


> I don't quite understand why people are comparing the ZSE and ZS5, they're two completely different parts of a product lineup, aimed at different audiences.
> Terms like 'ZS5 killer' make no sense haha.
> 
> Whatever keeps people happy I guess.



I used the 'ZS5 killer' term because with the recent ZSE hype there are a lot of people asking if they should get the ZSE instead of the ZS5.

Like you said, they occupy a different part of the lineup.

I personally consider the ZSE a logical evolution of the ZS3, which based on the design and tuning makes sense in the progression of the ZS lineup starting with the ZS1.

If I was KZ I would have marketed the ZST and ZS5 in their own (non-ZSx named) lineup, to also be joined by the upcoming ZSR Pro. Basically to differentiate the multi driver BA+DD design into a more "premium" KZ line. Something like DH1 Pro (DH=dynamic hybrid) instead of the ZST, DH2 Pro instead of ZS5, and DH3 Pro instead of ZSR Pro. Or drop the Pro and just use DH1/2/3. But that's just me.


----------



## Sylmar (Aug 8, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> How is the comfort with those? They don't appear overly ergonomic, so I'm just curious.



Bought those when I still had the Etymotic HF5 and never used them much since I wasn't used to foam tips. Now I use Comply's without any problems I quite like them but they are quite rough to the touch. I don't think they will feel comfortable for everyone but it seems I have quite insensitive ears or something. They don't bother me at all and fit the ZSE fine. I did shorten them though since they are too long for my taste.

I have a lot of unused ones and if you want to try a pair I can send you a pair for free to try them out. Just let me know.


----------



## groucho69

Got the ZSE today. Great little kick abouts. Am I weird because they seem to fit really well down and not reversed? Great fit for me. These may become my travel buddy.


----------



## Vidal

groucho69 said:


> Got the ZSE today. Great little kick abouts. Am I weird because they seem to fit really well down and not reversed? Great fit for me. These may become my travel buddy.



I think that's the way they're supposed to be but I found the cables noisy so worn them over ear.


----------



## khighly

Can anyone compare the ZS5 with the 1More Triple's?


----------



## Viber (Aug 8, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I used the 'ZS5 killer' term because with the recent ZSE hype there are a lot of people asking if they should get the ZSE instead of the ZS5.
> 
> Like you said, they occupy a different part of the lineup.
> 
> ...



Their lineups should be divided like so:

1.Single Driver line:
-ED2 until ED11
-DT5
-HDS1-2-3
-IE80
-GR \ RX\ S3 etc etc

2. Single Driver over ears line:
-ZS3
-ED12
-ATE /S
-ATR

3.Dual Driver Over ears line:
ZS1 / ZN1?
ZS2
ZSE

4.Hybrids line:
-ZST
-ZS5
-ZSR?

I really don't understand why many electronics companies find it so hard to name their products in a *clear *manner.


----------



## groucho69

Vidal said:


> I think that's the way they're supposed to be but I found the cables noisy so worn them over ear.



Yup they are definitely noisy.


----------



## groucho69

khighly said:


> Can anyone compare the ZS5 with the 1More Triple's?



My Triples are my favorite IEM. Much more balanced than the ZS5. I have to use foams on the ZS5 to get the seal I want, but not on the Triples. Having said that, the ZS5 are the most fun, but I spend the most time with my triples when I'm not wearing my K7XX. Of course YMMV.


----------



## khighly

groucho69 said:


> My Triples are my favorite IEM. Much more balanced than the ZS5. I have to use foams on the ZS5 to get the seal I want, but not on the Triples. Having said that, the ZS5 are the most fun, but I spend the most time with my triples when I'm not wearing my K7XX. Of course YMMV.


Thanks for the reply!

I'm looking at the triples or quads right now. I can't decide! I want a decent reference point for these KZ's.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Viber said:


> Their lineups should be divided like so:
> 
> 1.Single Driver line:
> -ED2 until ED11
> ...



I would love to see KZ clean up the naming of their products. They have the perfect opportunity to do it right now too, with most of their older stuff having being phased out. I would rather them organize the lineups more rigidly though. The below example might be a little convoluted, but something like it would be neat.

ED - fun earphones with bright and bassy v-shaped signatures (i.e. "generic" consumer tuning)
HD - neutral or treble/mid-range focused, bass quantity typically considered light ("generic" audiophile tuning)
ZS - bass cannons (because bass is fun)
DT - earphones with tuning filters

Letters would denote the basic signature/series, which could be followed up by a couple numbers. First number would indicate the status in the lineup; higher the number the better the performance (limit it to 3 or 5 maybe). The second number would indicate the number of drivers. If it's a hybrid, just toss an X at the end. For example; ED12x - ED = v-shaped signature, 1 = base model, 2 = dual driver, x = hybrid.


----------



## peskypesky

B9Scrambler said:


> I would love to see KZ clean up the naming of their products. They have the perfect opportunity to do it right now too, with most of their older stuff having being phased out. I would rather them organize the lineups more rigidly though. The below example might be a little convoluted, but something like it would be neat.
> 
> ED - fun earphones with bright and bassy v-shaped signatures (i.e. "generic" consumer tuning)
> HD - neutral or treble/mid-range focused, bass quantity typically considered light ("generic" audiophile tuning)
> ...


 
shouldn't they be:
FE - *fun earphones* with bright and bassy v-shaped signatures (i.e. "generic" consumer tuning)
GA - neutral or treble/mid-range focused, bass quantity typically considered light (*"generic" audiophile *tuning)
BC - *bass cannons* (because bass is fun)
TF - earphones with *tuning filters*


----------



## snip3r77

khighly said:


> Can anyone compare the ZS5 with the 1More Triple's?



I have both. Don't waste time on 1More


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 8, 2017)

Vidal said:


> Because someone said the ZSE were *as good* as the ZS5 previously, that's why.


If you're referring to me, I used the ZS5 and some other IEM's as a "reference point" to display its' details and show how good they are for their low price, after the fact that I spent time burning them in. They do get better with time, since I eventually had the first ZSE for more than several weeks now.

Facts that I personally encountered after the burn in process.
*Improvements:*
Better extended hi-end details
Tighter and extended bass
Resolution improves
Less hiss and distortion than many IEM's at its' price range

*CON's:*
Microphonics (or cable noise)
Fit can be questionable for others, though I never had any problem with it
Slightly cheap plastic housing

Overall, I did mentioned that comfort is better than the ZS5, but that was it. Everything else I mentioned was in comparison to both sound signatures.

and finally, not to be repetitive, but using a shirt-clip and chin slide will help a lot with cable noise.


-Clear


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2017)

Viber said:


> I really don't understand why many electronics companies find it so hard to name their products in a *clear *manner.



Definitely with you on that.

Add on top of it the weird naming taboos like the number 4 being unlucky in China.

And it's not just electronics companies: http://mentalfloss.com/article/31168/11-product-names-mean-unfortunate-things-other-languages


----------



## 1clearhead

Arkady Duntov said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-****-KZ-ZSE-headphones/dp/B0747S7BFV
> 
> [edit: I tried to post an image but it didn't seem to work. I guess I don't know what I'm doing.]


Yea, they're basically the same, but sold by a third party, I guess.


----------



## B9Scrambler

peskypesky said:


> shouldn't they be:
> FE - *fun earphones* with bright and bassy v-shaped signatures (i.e. "generic" consumer tuning)
> GA - neutral or treble/mid-range focused, bass quantity typically considered light (*"generic" audiophile *tuning)
> BC - *bass cannons* (because bass is fun)
> TF - earphones with *tuning filters*



Works for me, lol. I was just using existing KZ naming conventions.


----------



## 1clearhead

Viber said:


> hmmm that's interesting, @1clearhead  said they are louder than the ZS3...


...Yup, I still personally say they are louder.


----------



## 1clearhead

Vidal said:


> ZSE are here, arrived 30 mins ago. I've been listening to the E-MIs a lot so will take a while to adjust as *these are darker*.
> 
> Cables are terrible for microphonics but swapping L+R means they can be worn over ear. More thoughts later


Nah, I think they're just warmer.


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> shouldn't they be:
> FE - *fun earphones* with bright and bassy v-shaped signatures (i.e. "generic" consumer tuning)
> GA - neutral or treble/mid-range focused, bass quantity typically considered light (*"generic" audiophile *tuning)
> BC - *bass cannons* (because bass is fun)
> TF - earphones with *tuning filters*



Or they could use the Tennmak style naming convention:

Wacky FunBall - *fun earphones* with bright and bassy v-shaped signatures (i.e. "generic" consumer tuning)
Ear Explosion - neutral or treble/mid-range focused, bass quantity typically considered light (*"generic" audiophile *tuning)
Crazy Cannon - *bass cannons* (because bass is fun)
Fiery Guitar - earphones with *tuning filters*[/QUOTE]


----------



## KainHighwind

The ZS3 and ED9 in Gearbeast KZ official store are much cheaper than the website, is there any difference between gearbest version and their website version?

ZS3 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21 $8.99
ED9 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_327728.html?wid=21 $9.99

And there are many different prices for the same model on the gearbest store, like ED9 have 9.99 ; 10.03. Is there any difference? 

Thank you guys!


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> The ZS3 and ED9 in Gearbeast KZ official store are much cheaper than the website, is there any difference between gearbest version and their website version?
> 
> ZS3 http://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21 $8.99
> ED9 http://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_327728.html?wid=21 $9.99
> ...



No difference (other than price) between different sellers. So just buy where it is cheapest. Some times Gearbest has items on "flash sale", and it is much cheaper than other sellers on other websites (Aliexpress, ebay, Amazon, etc).

Almost all sellers charge a price for non-microphone version and a little higher for microphone version. Usually it is about $1-$2usd different for microphone vs no-microphone version.


----------



## KainHighwind

slaterlovesspam said:


> No difference (other than price) between different sellers. So just buy where it is cheapest. Some times Gearbest has items on "flash sale", and it is much cheaper than other sellers on other websites (Aliexpress, ebay, Amazon, etc).
> 
> Almost all sellers charge a price for non-microphone version and a little higher for microphone version. Usually it is about $1-$2usd different for microphone vs no-microphone version.



Thank you. I already have ZST, I wonder if I should ZS3 or ED9, I listen mostly to pop and vocal music? I think ZST is good and I love its sound, just wanna buy 1 more because they are in flash sale.


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> Thank you. I already have ZST, I wonder if I should ZS3 or ED9, I listen mostly to pop and vocal music? I think ZST is good and I love its sound, just wanna buy 1 more because they are in flash sale.



Lemme ask you this - what do you like about the ZST? And what do you dislike about it?


----------



## chi-fi mel

I ordered the new ZSE and am looking forward to their arrival, although I have a variety of others on the way as well. The KZs that I already have are the ED9, and I use my much modded pair for audio, but not for music - good value though. I have the ZS3 but never use them because the sound quality is mediocre compared to others in that price range. The ZS5 is a product I like everything about. I'm using foam tips on it and it's the first pair ever where I thought foam tips offered the best sound. I'm not a fan of the Starfire tips, or any other tips KZ has ever had. I have 6 pairs of earphones I consider to be exceptional sounding including these out of around 50 that I've owned. I got the gray ones from Gearbest for $20. I wear them over the air because they sound better that way and are quite comfortable.


----------



## mochill

Ordered the zse


----------



## KainHighwind (Aug 9, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Lemme ask you this - what do you like about the ZST? And what do you dislike about it?



Like: Vocal is clear, I can hear the vocal and instrument separately; bass is enough (I don't like too much bass); the low notes are clear.
Don't like: Sometimes the high notes become too high and piercing my ears, I would like warmer sound; this phone hurts my ears after a long time, maybe it because the stock silicon tips.

English is not my native language so it's hard for me to express my opinion about the abstract thing like "sound".


----------



## SomeTechNoob

KainHighwind said:


> Like: Vocal is clear, I can hear the vocal and instrument separately; bass is enough (I don't like too much bass); the low notes are clear.
> Don't like: Sometimes the high notes become too high and piercing my ears, I would like warmer sound; this phone hurts my ears after a long time, maybe it because the stock silicon tips.
> 
> English is not my native language so it's hard for me to express my opinion is the abstract thing like "sound".



Probably ZS3 then if choosing between the ED9 and ZS3.


----------



## mono-type

slaterlovesspam said:


> Add on top of it the weird naming taboos like the number 4 being unlucky in China.
> ]


Now I remember why there isn't a ZS4, since the people of the Sinosphere are tetraphobic.


----------



## Slater (Aug 9, 2017)

KainHighwind said:


> Like: Vocal is clear, I can hear the vocal and instrument separately; bass is enough (I don't like too much bass); the low notes are clear.
> Don't like: Sometimes the high notes become too high and piercing my ears, I would like warmer sound; this phone hurts my ears after a long time, maybe it because the stock silicon tips.
> 
> English is not my native language so it's hard for me to express my opinion about the abstract thing like "sound".



That's OK - you explained it well.

Based on your comments, I think you would like the KZ ATR, or even the EDR1 or EDR2 (assuming you want a KZ). All 3 are an excellent value for the price, are very comfortable, and have the sound I think you would enjoy.

You could also look at the KZ HDS3, which is one of my favorites too.

I'm sure others will chime in with some good recommendations. There are numerous other ChiFis that would work great too (that aren't KZ). The choices are mind boggling!


----------



## toddy0191

khighly said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I'm looking at the triples or quads right now. I can't decide! I want a decent reference point for these KZ's.



@HiFiChris compared them with the ZS5 in his review as he said they reminded him of the triples.


----------



## KainHighwind

T


slaterlovesspam said:


> That's OK - you explained it well.
> 
> Based on your comments, I think you would like the KZ ATR, or even the EDR1 or EDR2 (assuming you want a KZ). All 3 are an excellent value for the price, are very comfortable, and have the sound I think you would enjoy.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Any recommendation would be welcome.  Because this thread is about KZ so in my previous post, I only asked about KZ, but any brand is welcome too. So with the budget around US $20, which one would you guy strongly recommend?


----------



## Vidal

1clearhead said:


> Nah, I think they're just warmer.



The ZSE are definitely darker than the E-MIs


----------



## Vidal

1clearhead said:


> If you're referring to me, I used the ZS5 and some other IEM's as a "reference point" to display its' details and show how good they are for their low price, after the fact that I spent time burning them in. They do get better with time, since I eventually had the first ZSE for more than several weeks now.
> 
> -Clear



Clear, I was addressing the comment about why we are comparing the ZSE with the ZS5. Cable noise aside I like the ZSE but it's not as detailed nor does it have the soundstage of the ZS5, but for it's price point it's very decent headphone.


----------



## snip3r77

Vidal said:


> The ZSE are definitely darker than the E-MIs



darker than tennmak pro?


----------



## Vidal

snip3r77 said:


> darker than tennmak pro?



Can't recall off the top of my head, will have to see if a I've still got the Pros. Never a favorite of mine so may have passed them on.



KainHighwind said:


> T
> 
> Thank you. Any recommendation would be welcome.  Because this thread is about KZ so in my previous post, I only asked about KZ, but any brand is welcome too. So with the budget around US $20, which one would you guy strongly recommend?



Urbanfun HiFi


----------



## 1clearhead

H


Vidal said:


> Clear, I was addressing the comment about why we are comparing the ZSE with the ZS5. Cable noise aside I like the ZSE but it's not as detailed nor does it have the soundstage of the ZS5, but for it's price point it's very decent headphone.


How is the fit? ...did you change the star-line tips, or did you keep them the same?


----------



## mono-type

Anyone else here tried using the small stock tips of the ZS3 on their ZSE's? I tried using the small ZS3 tips, and it kinda brightened up the sound, just like the way it's on the ZS3 (where someone in this thread many, many pages ago suggested using the small stock tips of the ZS3 to mellow down the bass).


----------



## Vidal

1clearhead said:


> H
> 
> How is the fit? ...did you change the star-line tips, or did you keep them the same?



I always swap to foams - consistent fit across all IEMs that way.


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> T
> 
> Thank you. Any recommendation would be welcome.  Because this thread is about KZ so in my previous post, I only asked about KZ, but any brand is welcome too. So with the budget around US $20, which one would you guy strongly recommend?



For non-KZ recommendations, the Urbanfun HiFi and Einsear T2 are good recommendations.


----------



## Levanter

Not sure if this was already posted before, but any thoughts on this? Apparently some of the drivers in the KZ ZS5 are not really doing anything.


----------



## Fox2twenty

@Vidal is the zs5 still tops for you?


----------



## peskypesky

Levanter said:


> Not sure if this was already posted before, but any thoughts on this? Apparently some of the drivers in the KZ ZS5 are not really doing anything.



Already discussed


----------



## Levanter

peskypesky said:


> Already discussed



Do you remember which page?


----------



## Slater (Aug 10, 2017)

Levanter said:


> Not sure if this was already posted before, but any thoughts on this? Apparently some of the drivers in the KZ ZS5 are not really doing anything.




Uh-oh, here we go again LOL



J/k man, the discussions start here and go on for about 5-8 pages if I remember: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1292#post-13632308

HTH


----------



## Vidal

iPhone IEM said:


> @Vidal is the zs5 still tops for you?



Very little between the top 5 really, I find myself using the EMI more though as they're more comfortable than the ZS5


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Levanter said:


> Not sure if this was already posted before, but any thoughts on this? Apparently some of the drivers in the KZ ZS5 are not really doing anything.




ageeees ago.



SomeTechNoob said:


> You're late, we've been ranting about it for 6 pages.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1292#post-13632308


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tha


Vidal said:


> Very little between the top 5 really, I find myself using the EMI more though as they're more comfortable than the ZS5


Thanks


----------



## Levanter

slaterlovesspam said:


> Uh-oh, here we go again LOL
> 
> J/k man, the discussions start here and go on for about 5-8 pages if I remember: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1292#post-13632308
> 
> HTH





SomeTechNoob said:


> ageeees ago.



Thanks! Wanna find some toss-around IEM and was looking at this and 1More triple


----------



## khighly

snip3r77 said:


> darker than tennmak pro?



I would take something as dark as the Tennmak's. My Tennmak Pro's are some of my favorite IEM's, but the MMCX port is too cheap and they only last 1-2 months.


----------



## khighly (Aug 10, 2017)

Why is the cable so long on the bluetooth cable? Is their target market F1 drivers?

*Make it shorter!*


----------



## snip3r77

khighly said:


> Why is the cable so long on the ZS5? Is their target market F1 drivers?
> 
> *Make it shorter!*


I'm using the silvers , no such problem


----------



## chinmie

khighly said:


> Why is the cable so long on the ZS5? Is their target market F1 drivers?
> 
> *Make it shorter!*



wrap around the neck once or twice


----------



## toddy0191

khighly said:


> Why is the cable so long on the ZS5? Is their target market F1 drivers?
> 
> *Make it shorter!*



This guy disagrees with you.


----------



## khighly

Ha. Oops. I meant the bluetooth cable. I was switching back to the ZS5's when I was typing


----------



## why sleep

A pair of ZS5's finally made their way to my door today, and I'm floored by the sound they produce. I'm new to the hifi world; my only other piece of gear are a pair of Shure se846's I got for a steal. The ZS5 is a short stone's throw away from them in all the areas which matter, and I do mean that. I took them out of the box, put Spiral Dot medium tips on, and have been enjoying the hell out of some favorite tunes all evening. If not for this thread I'd likely never have gotten to experience these fantastic earphones - thank you all for introducing me to this brand!


----------



## skeej

khighly said:


> Why is the cable so long on the bluetooth cable? Is their target market F1 drivers?
> 
> *Make it shorter!*



Is it the same cable that you mentioned having distortion and skipping issues? I got the same cable (I think, KZ BT 4.2) and am having no problems whatsoever, to the point where I feel that BT offers so much more convenience that I'd be hesitant to buy any other IEM that doesn't have a removable cable to offer an option for wireless conversion.

Hard to accurately A/B because it takes a while replacing the cable, refitting the plugs in your ears, etc, but I can't say I noticed much of a difference over my phone's analog out on my ZS5s. The cable could have been made slightly shorter indeed though.


----------



## TheWongWrong (Aug 10, 2017)

So, finally I'm noticing a faint green tint on parts of my silver cable. Only a matter of time before it starts turning completely green.

Anyone experiencing any issues with this? Not about sound quality(please don't spark this debate about cables), but I hear Shure owners saying they might get stiffer?

Also has anyone thought of anything to fix it or cover it up? I do really like the look of the silver cable so I'd hoped for it to stay the way it was.




They really are quite gorgeous(which is all you'd need from a cable, as well as durability) especially when you take into consideration that they are a mere 8$


----------



## mono-type

TheWongWrong said:


> So, finally I'm noticing a faint green tint on parts of my silver cable. Only a matter of time before it starts turning completely green.


Are you talking about the clear white insulation, or the silver-plated copper wires? In my case, if you're talking about the clear-white insulation, it starts to become brown-yellowish gradually; a far cry from the clear white when it was brand-new. Maybe it's because I live in a quite dusty environment?

And oh, I asked this 2 pages ago, but I guess I have gone into oblivion  :


mono-type said:


> Anyone else here tried using the small stock tips of the ZS3 on their ZSE's? I tried using the small ZS3 tips, and it kinda brightened up the sound, just like the way it's on the ZS3 (where someone in this thread many, many pages ago suggested using the small stock tips of the ZS3 to mellow down the bass).


Anyone else tried putting the small ZS3 tips on ZSE, as stated on my post above?


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Uh-oh, here we go again LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TheWongWrong (Aug 10, 2017)

mono-type said:


> Are you talking about the clear white insulation, or the silver-plated copper wires? In my case, if you're talking about the clear-white insulation, it starts to become brown-yellowish gradually; a far cry from the clear white when it was brand-new. Maybe it's because I live in a quite dusty environment?


 ah I'm actually talking about the silver plated copper wires. Lots of science and speculation behind it but basically the copper is reacting with either the oxygen in the air or the chlorine(?) in the insulation and therefore turning green. Here's an example:


----------



## groucho69

I believe that it a natural unavoidable progressive reaction.


----------



## mono-type

TheWongWrong said:


> ah I'm actually talking about the silver plated copper wires. Lots of science and speculation behind it but basically the copper is reacting with either the oxygen in the air or the chlorine(?) in the insulation and therefore turning green.


It's definitely copper oxidizing (the green color of the SPC wires is a giveaway), which is a natural occurrence like @groucho69 have said.


----------



## peskypesky

i like the green


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 10, 2017)

I am loving my KZ ED9's so much that I'm going to order another pair or two just to have them as backups in case they stop making them, or change the design, or I lose my current pair.

If you haven't tried the ED9s, and like me, you enjoy a robust sound with solid bass, do yourself a favor and get a pair. I'm a bit of a headbanger I guess, and these bang my head good when i'm blasting the rawk.


----------



## peskypesky

hmmm....my ZS5s were sounding quite lame....so I was disappointed with them. Then I realized I might have plugged the cables in incorrectly. So I plugged them in again and VOILA! Now the ZS5s are sounding damn good. What a difference. I am now in love with their sound.


Let that be yet another warning to anyone who gets the ZS5s and thinks they sound lame. If you think that, you most probably have one or both cords plugged in incorrectly.

Now I may cancel my ED9 order and instead order another ZS5.


----------



## Middle (Aug 10, 2017)

Hello KZ experts, I was hoping you could help me out with a problem with my ZST earphones. I bought this set months ago from amazon and I was immediately shocked at how bad they sounded. Today I pulled them back out and tested them using this polarity check video

 .

Sure enough with the cables installed correctly (L and R facing outwards with the rounded sections seated properly) these sound out of phase to me while my other headphones sound fine. If I unplug only the left earphone and plug the cable in backwards the phasing seems to be fixed but it obviously doesn't seat down all the way so this isn't a good solution.

Does this mean something is wrong with my cable or something is wired backwards inside the earphones? This is the black model with microphone included.

When I shine a light through them I can see the colors of the wires soldered onto the red two pin connector. On the left earphone the red wire is soldered to the rounded side. On the right earphone the red wire is soldered onto the square side. Is this correct?


----------



## vector84 (Aug 10, 2017)

Switching one of the cables to be inserted backward (and just one) is an expected fix for a phase/polarity issue

You would need additional tests to discern if the problem is in the cable or in the IEM and I don't own a ZST to try to lend assistance with a flashlight.
(ie test with additional cables, if they're all reversed phase, it's the IEM, if just that one is, it's the cable)


Even if the problem is in the IEM though, changing the internal wiring is going to be at least a bit more difficult and involved than altering a cable at the Y splitter to fix the problem.
(unless you happen to be a micro soldering wizard, I suppose?)

PS: In addition to being an easier fix, it has been suggested by others around here that most of the QC issues are with the cables, not the internal wiring.


----------



## chi-fi mel

We all know how tip dependent earphones are. I did a mod for my KZ ED9 that made an astonishing sonic upgrade. 


I took something I found in a drawer - I think it was from a foam pencil holder I got at Staples. I cut a couple sections from it and placed them inside some soft black silicon tips I had lying around. The results blew me away. I had tried many other tips, both foam and silicone including various KZ tips including Starlines, with various results. I'm a tip roller and have been rewarded many times, but this was the most dramatic.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Is KZ working on a ZS5 for Massdrop?


----------



## Slater

chi-fi mel said:


> We all know how tip dependent earphones are. I did a mod for my KZ ED9 that made an astonishing sonic upgrade.
> I took something I found in a drawer - I think it was from a foam pencil holder I got at Staples. I cut a couple sections from it and placed them inside some soft black silicon tips I had lying around. The results blew me away. I had tried many other tips, both foam and silicone including various KZ tips including Starlines, with various results. I'm a tip roller and have been rewarded many times, but this was the most dramatic.



Nice job.

You can also use disposable foam earplugs. Cut a small section off, punch a hole through the center using a hole-punch, and insert into the ear tip just like you did.


----------



## snip3r77

iPhone IEM said:


> Is KZ working on a ZS5 for Massdrop?



With gearbest price, I would not wait for MassDrop as there's not much moolah to drop as such a price


----------



## likejehu

iPhone IEM said:


> Is KZ working on a ZS5 for Massdrop?


its alrdy cost 19$ w free ship


----------



## Drakis

Rebrand alert!!!

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...unning-Sport-Headset/1922340_32825686106.html


----------



## Sylmar

Drakis said:


> Rebrand alert!!!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...unning-Sport-Headset/1922340_32825686106.html



With MMCX even.


----------



## mrjimmybob

KZ Headphones must be the worst in earphones EVER! (sarcasm). I am sitting at my desk with the following earphones in front of me:

Kinera H3 ($99)
Audio Technica IM50 ($80)
TFZ Series 5S ($82)
Sennheiser Momentums (in ear) ($99)
Sennheiser CX 980 ($250)
KEF M200 ($199)
KZ ZS3 ($12)
KZ ZST ($19)

And I am constatly looking for an excuse to use more expensive headphones instead of the KZ models. Even the KZ ZS3 that I bought on ebay for 9 EUR are a joy to listen to compared to the Sennheisers or the Kefs (the Kef's I find unbearable due to comfort issues, but anyway).

So I have over $800 worth of earphones when I could have just bought a pair of KZ ZS3 for $12 and spent the rest on alcohol and hookers. What gives?

I am not saying that the KZ's are better than the others. But to my ears, they sound just as good. 

I kind of feel stupid right now. I read review after review when the reviewers swears that the 'new_model_of_earphone_x' for $49 sounds well above its price range, competing with earphones as expensive as $100 or even $200, then you buy it and its like 'meh', and you have to keep looking the the pie in the sky, and spending your hard earned cash for the next pair or earphones. Surely this time it will be different, I am sure they will sound that much better, but they never do. Keep trying. Keep spending. Keep it real.


----------



## Viber

mrjimmybob said:


> KZ Headphones must be the worst in earphones EVER! (sarcasm). I am sitting at my desk with the following earphones in front of me:
> 
> Kinera H3 ($99)
> Audio Technica IM50 ($80)
> ...



Funny thing is: you actually overpaid for the ZS3. They can be found for 6-8$ on flash sales.
I like them too, especially after removing the memory wire and designing an EQ preset for them.

Still, i think KZ can improve on the treble front.


----------



## aisalen

Agree with you, I am using ZS5 alternately with IT03. I have Kinera H3 and ZSE coming, and I am worried that I might regret the H3 and just might bought another ZS5 and ZS3 instead.


----------



## themindfreak

Drakis said:


> Rebrand alert!!!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...unning-Sport-Headset/1922340_32825686106.html


Well apparently it says the Mids and Bass goes to the dynamic driver while the highs go to the BA driver. Should definitely sound different from the KZ ZST


----------



## snip3r77

aisalen said:


> Agree with you, I am using ZS5 alternately with IT03. I have Kinera H3 and ZSE coming, and I am worried that I might regret the H3 and just might bought another ZS5 and ZS3 instead.


Pls help to do comparo with your h3


----------



## groucho69

mrjimmybob said:


> KZ Headphones must be the worst in earphones EVER! (sarcasm). I am sitting at my desk with the following earphones in front of me:
> 
> Kinera H3 ($99)
> Audio Technica IM50 ($80)
> ...



Except that you really over paid for the KEF (I have no comfort issue btw, I think I'm odd that way) I'm thinking that way as well. Feed the addiction.


----------



## mono-type (Aug 11, 2017)

Viber said:


> Funny thing is: you actually overpaid for the ZS3. They can be found for 6-8$ on flash sales.
> I like them too, especially after removing the memory wire and designing an EQ preset for them.
> 
> Still, i think KZ can improve on the treble front.


At my local store, ZS3 is priced around 14-15 USD (the mark-up is understandable, since you have to consider stuff like taxes and shipping the store had did, etc.). So he got it a bit cheaper LOL. XD

Also, I also like the ZS3 more when it was modded (via the Slater mod). The Slater mod + small ZS3 stock tips + (probably) the SPC cable definitely brightens up the sound.


----------



## Damikiller37 (Aug 11, 2017)

I got my silver cable for ZS5s today. It's not the KZ one but a different one I ordered from AliExpress. I got it on 01/08 and it got here today (11/08) so it took 10 days. I just went with the free China Post Air Mail which was estimated for 20-40 days so I can't complain  . I paid £9.22 for it and it goes for £9.39 right now. This is the one I ordered LINK. They have some nice photos of the cable on the website.

I took extra ones comparing it to the original cable. Just like last time I don't want to flood the post with images so here is a LINK to the gallery and here is an overall pic:





*A mini review of the cable*
It's quite nice! Decent quality. Lighter than the original cable and has a nice two tone gray/silver look to it; the main part is darker gray/gunmetal and the wires past the Y splitter appear gray/silver. The main part is just the braid on it's own, while the wires past the Y splitter are twisted together and covered with very thin clear shielding which seems to be why the wires appear lighter coloured. You should be able to see it in my photos.

From an initial sound test it seems the same as the original cable; I personally had no problem with the sound before so I have no issues now. Cable noise from movement seems less noticeable? Might be a placebo effect but either way it doesn't seem to be irritating in any way. I'll be out and about next week with them so I'll report back about any notable findings.

The 2 pin connectors are a bit different compared to the original. It's just a block with 2 pins; unlike with the original cable, the plastic around the pins doesn't go into the housing but pushes in until it's against the exterior. The fit is very firm so there is no way they will disconnect. The only indicators you have are pretty hard to see, just embossed L and R on each side respectively. The correct orientation appears to be with the letter facing away from your head A.K.A the same way that the L and R are on the housing. Just like the original there is a metal wire so you can shape it around your ear and it's covered with another layer of clear shielding.

So far I'd recommend you get it over the original wire for the aesthetics and if you want a slightly lighter wire. I'll have to see if this one likes to memorise position like the original one after it was squished in the box. I'm not a firm believer that a wire will change the sound in any way but I'll see.

If you have any questions feel free to ask!


----------



## Francisk

iPhone IEM said:


> Is KZ working on a ZS5 for Massdrop?


At the current asking price of ZS5 now, who needs Massdrop


----------



## peskypesky

Sylmar said:


> With MMCX even.


is that different from the KZ?


----------



## peskypesky

Damikiller37 said:


> I got my **** silver cable for ZS5s today.
> If you have any questions feel free to ask!



Is it less tangle-prone? I find the stock cable to be one of the worst cables I've ever had when it comes to tangling.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 11, 2017)

I'm going to order this silver cable for the ZS5 from Amazon. Only $10.99 with free 2-day Prime shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Upgrade-E...8&qid=1502462438&sr=8-3&keywords=kz+zs5+cable


----------



## Damikiller37

peskypesky said:


> Is it less tangle-prone? I find the stock cable to be one of the worst cables I've ever had when it comes to tangling.


I just messed around with them in my hands tried to tangle them in a similar magic fashion as what my pockets do and sure they tangle up but it's quite easy to undo it all. The material on the wire isn't as grippy as the original one so I'd say it's definitely an improvement but time will tell.


----------



## peskypesky

Damikiller37 said:


> I just messed around with them in my hands tried to tangle them in a similar magic fashion as what my pockets do and sure they tangle up but it's quite easy to undo it all. The material on the wire isn't as grippy as the original one so I'd say it's definitely an improvement but time will tell.


thank you.


----------



## Sylmar

peskypesky said:


> is that different from the KZ?


Yes those have two pins.


----------



## Damikiller37

Drakis said:


> Rebrand alert!!!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...unning-Sport-Headset/1922340_32825686106.html


They share the same logo on them but the housing, tips, wire and the connector sure are different. Likely the internals as well. So not really a rebrand but more of an "inspired" look.


----------



## loomisjohnson

mrjimmybob said:


> KZ Headphones must be the worst in earphones EVER! (sarcasm). I am sitting at my desk with the following earphones in front of me:
> 
> Kinera H3 ($99)
> Audio Technica IM50 ($80)
> ...


budget chifi has gotten so scary good that you have to ask yourself seriously what you're gaining by moving from some of the $20 gems (e.g. the zs5 or my current flame, the e-mi) to the $<100 mainstream mid-tier players like senn or ath. better qc, i suppose, or perhaps (tho not necessarily) better aesthetics and accessories. frankly, even the  gap between the best $20 chifis and the best $100 chifis has shrunk considerably, which is to say the magaosi k3 is better than the zs5, but not so much that i would give up alcohol and hookers to get one.


----------



## peskypesky

loomisjohnson said:


> budget chifi has gotten so scary good that you have to ask yourself seriously what you're gaining by moving from some of the $20 gems (e.g. the zs5 or my current flame, the e-mi) to the $<100 mainstream mid-tier players like senn or ath. better qc, i suppose, or perhaps (tho not necessarily) better aesthetics and accessories. frankly, even the  gap between the best $20 chifis and the best $100 chifis has shrunk considerably, which is to say the magaosi k3 is better than the zs5, but not so much that i would give up alcohol and hookers to get one.


yup.  With both IEM's and headphones.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes but it won't be long with our interest to start creeping up to our western prices as their capitalist journey continues. So get it while the goings good


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> Yes but it won't be long with our interest to start creeping up to our western prices as their capitalist journey continues. So get it while the goings good


----------



## peskypesky

ordered a cable upgrade for my ZS5s a couple of hours ago,

now just ordered some Comply Comfort foam tips for them. I expect I'll be having them in for long periods of time.  

Never had foam tips before, so I'm curious to see what they're all about.


----------



## Marc Lian

I've been listening to my KZ ZS5 for the past 2 days and it's been great. Initially I too plugged the cables in the wrong way and had crazy phase issues. Very impressed with the value of these, it's slightly sibilant but definitely bearable for me. What tips do you guys use? The default star tips fit fine until they started to hurt my right ear, I've got spinfits on now that are slightly more comfy.


----------



## groucho69

Marc Lian said:


> I've been listening to my KZ ZS5 for the past 2 days and it's been great. Initially I too plugged the cables in the wrong way and had crazy phase issues. Very impressed with the value of these, it's slightly sibilant but definitely bearable for me. What tips do you guys use? The default star tips fit fine until they started to hurt my right ear, I've got spinfits on now that are slightly more comfy.



For my ears foams are usually the best compromise.


----------



## HungryPanda

MandarinEs Symbio Eartips:


----------



## BrunoC

Found this pic in Gearbest ZS5's feedback.

Can I  have an expert's opinion? Are the 4 drivers used or not?


----------



## groucho69

BrunoC said:


> Found this pic in Gearbest ZS5's feedback.
> 
> Can I  have an expert's opinion? Are the 4 drivers used or not?



Bottom line is they sound great for the cost


----------



## Fox2twenty

Thanks guyz, love this thread!! Chi fi may save me from replacing my v6s anytime soon. 

So I now have AliExpress on my phone. Does gearbest have an app?


----------



## Damikiller37

iPhone IEM said:


> Thanks guyz, love this thread!! Chi fi may save me from replacing my v6s anytime soon.
> 
> So I now have AliExpress on my phone. Does gearbest have an app?


Yes at least on Android


----------



## Fox2twenty

Yayyyy!


----------



## Fox2twenty

Holy CRAP. I love this thread


----------



## Fox2twenty

So Gearbest is okay? Not counterfeits?


----------



## maxxevv

iPhone IEM said:


> Holy CRAP. I love this thread



There's lots of other affordable asian earphones to be discovered too ....


----------



## toddy0191

iPhone IEM said:


> So Gearbest is okay? Not counterfeits?



Gearbest is fine and a respected outfit on here.


----------



## ryokun

My zs05 has arrived! I don't really like the tips provided, which aftermarket tips give the best sound quality? I'm strongly thinking of buying a pair or two.


----------



## mono-type (Aug 12, 2017)

Any known mods for the ZSE? From the looks of it, the Slater mod isn't applicable to the ZSE, as it seems to be built differently from the ZS3.


----------



## Francisk

ryokun said:


> My zs05 has arrived! I don't really like the tips provided, which aftermarket tips give the best sound quality? I'm strongly thinking of buying a pair or two.


I find the Comply T400 pairs the best with my ZS5.


----------



## Viber

So i'm trying to do the @slaterlovesspam  mod and this is how the red tube looks from the inside.  
Is this normal?  it looks like the opening of the red tube is not aligned with the opening of the nozzle... Or is it "angled" on purpose?


----------



## Viber

@slaterlovesspam  how do you know that the foam on the ZS3 is supposed to be inside the red *tube* and not right behind the red *mesh*?  it was behind the red mesh on both sides for me.


----------



## maxxevv

mono-type said:


> Any known mods for the ZSE? From the looks of it, the Slater mod isn't applicable to the ZSE, as it seems to be built differently from the ZS3.



Would it be necessary on the ZSE ? Can't seem to find any really descriptive reviews of it so far to justify needing to do that yet though ??


----------



## mono-type

Viber said:


> @slaterlovesspam  how do you know that the foam on the ZS3 is supposed to be inside the red *tube* and not right behind the red *mesh*?  it was behind the red mesh on both sides for me.


Same thing on my ZS3's too when I removed the red screen. The black foam is just floating around the nozzle.



maxxevv said:


> Would it be necessary on the ZSE ? Can't seem to find any really descriptive reviews of it so far to justify needing to do that yet though ??


I'm asking for the sake of curiosity. Well, it's understandable that you can't find descriptive reviews of the ZSE yet, as it has just recently released.


----------



## maxxevv

I've got a pair of the ZSE on order myself. It should arrive these few days as its already in the hands of the local postal service according to the tracking. 
Should be interesting to hear how a dual dynamic driver IEM that cost me US$8/- delivered sounds. Considering how KZ has a habit pushing products that punch way above their price!


----------



## Sokolnitz

Guys, what do you think of this ? : https://medium.com/resonance-review...s-two-working-drivers-its-a-scam-6cc9d1c6a9fb


----------



## CYoung234 (Aug 12, 2017)

Sokolnitz said:


> Guys, what do you think of this ? : https://medium.com/resonance-review...s-two-working-drivers-its-a-scam-6cc9d1c6a9fb



I would suggest that if you actually want to know what everyone thinks about this, you should probably read the thread, or at least do a cursory search, as this video review has been discussed ad-nauseum... Like six or seven pages worth. Hint: Check post #19380.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 12, 2017)

Sokolnitz said:


> Guys, what do you think of this ? : https://medium.com/resonance-review...s-two-working-drivers-its-a-scam-6cc9d1c6a9fb



If you're genuinely curious, the 2 driver ZS5 thing first came up in this thread based on taobao comments back on page 1209.
(long before his review, so his "you won't see this on head-fi" .... )

Now here's what genuinely bothers me about that guy's review: he appears to be using pictures from that original taobao thread without giving credit.


But if you really feel like they're a rip-off, maybe some more productive suggestions for something that is *clearly* much better in the $20 price range instead of just incessant spamming from a reviewer that probably had a phasing problem? 


PS: One of my ZS5 units has a very distorted frequency response in the 10-20 kHz range (starting at around 10kHz and deviating sharply after 16 kHz)...
Almost like there's a single malfunctioning driver in that range... take that for what you will.  Not saying it's proof, but it's interesting.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> @slaterlovesspam  how do you know that the foam on the ZS3 is supposed to be inside the red *tube* and not right behind the red *mesh*?  it was behind the red mesh on both sides for me.



You can tell by the size of the foam. It's supposed to be a firm fit, which only occurs in the tube. However, it likes to fall out of the tube, getting stuck to the adhesive on the underside of the red screen. Or I've had them just "float" around freely inside of the nozzle before (again, it is not supposed to do this).

If it was supposed to go in the top of the nozzle (by the red screen), they would have used a slightly larger piece.


----------



## Sokolnitz

CYoung234 said:


> I would suggest that if you actually want to know what everyone thinks about this, you should probably read the thread, or at least do a cursory search, as this video review has been discussed ad-nauseum... Like six or seven pages worth. Hint: Check post #19380.



Thanks, sorry.


----------



## nplateau

ZSE just arrived and only have about 5 minutes on them, so take this with a lump of salt.  They resolve well and sound more U-shaped than V-shaped, with nice slam and though not the tightest low end, are without much offensive bloat.  They don't have ZS5 or ZST sparkle, but on first blush, have more clarity than the ZS3.  They are smooth operators with a bit of flourish in the detail.  I'm hoping as they break in they will get better, but for the $6.50 I paid, I'm quite pleased.


----------



## Fox2twenty

nplateau said:


> ZSE just arrived and only have about 5 minutes on them, so take this with a lump of salt.  They resolve well and sound more U-shaped than V-shaped, with nice slam and though not the tightest low end, are without much offensive bloat.  They don't have ZS5 or ZST sparkle, but on first blush, have more clarity than the ZS3.  They are smooth operators with a bit of flourish in the detail.  I'm hoping as they break in they will get better, but for the $6.50 I paid, I'm quite pleased.



Thanks for the quick review. ☺️


----------



## Fox2twenty

@nplateau is this what yours look like?


----------



## nplateau

iPhone IEM said:


> @nplateau is this what yours look like?


Yup those are the ones.


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> If it was supposed to go in the top of the nozzle (by the red screen), they would have used a slightly larger piece.



It's KZ, they would just use more glue on the foam itself.

I see your point though, i jammed the foams into the red tube and it sounds fine now.

It was interesting to remove the foams tho, it's like having a different earphone. Good mod for people who listen to classic music or very soft music.
  Unfortunately, my ears were burning from too much brightness so i opted out of the mod. EQ does the trick for me.


----------



## snip3r77

nplateau said:


> ZSE just arrived and only have about 5 minutes on them, so take this with a lump of salt.  They resolve well and sound more U-shaped than V-shaped, with nice slam and though not the tightest low end, are without much offensive bloat.  They don't have ZS5 or ZST sparkle, but on first blush, have more clarity than the ZS3.  They are smooth operators with a bit of flourish in the detail.  I'm hoping as they break in they will get better, but for the $6.50 I paid, I'm quite pleased.


Does it own the zs5?


----------



## nplateau

snip3r77 said:


> Does it own the zs5?


LOL!  Nah, I wouldn't got that far.  Especially with only about an hour of listening on them.  They are definitely their own animal though, and to my ears they do present a surprising amount of balance and refinement.  These aren't world beaters by any stretch, but they are really very nice for the price.  I would say that what the ZSE presents is a very nice complimentary piece to the ZS5.  Just like the ZS5 was an improvement over the ZST in some ways, so is the ZSE to the ZS3.  So the proper analogy to describe the relationship would be the ZSE is to the ZS5 what the ZS3 is the the ZST.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> It's KZ, they would just use more glue on the foam itself.
> 
> I see your point though, i jammed the foams into the red tube and it sounds fine now.
> 
> ...



Yeah, KZ loves their glue lol

Glad you got it sorted out and sounding good.


----------



## Slater

nplateau said:


> ...So the proper analogy to describe the relationship would be the ZSE is to the ZS5 what the ZS3 is the the ZST.



Or in other words:

ZSE > ZS3
and
ZS5 > ZST
but
ZSE < ZS5


----------



## snip3r77

nplateau said:


> LOL!  Nah, I wouldn't got that far.  Especially with only about an hour of listening on them.  They are definitely their own animal though, and to my ears they do present a surprising amount of balance and refinement.  These aren't world beaters by any stretch, but they are really very nice for the price.  I would say that what the ZSE presents is a very nice complimentary piece to the ZS5.  Just like the ZS5 was an improvement over the ZST in some ways, so is the ZSE to the ZS3.  So the proper analogy to describe the relationship would be the ZSE is to the ZS5 what the ZS3 is the the ZST.



What about ZSE vs ZS3/ZST ? hehe


----------



## maxxevv

nplateau said:


> ZSE just arrived and only have about 5 minutes on them, so take this with a lump of salt.  They resolve well and sound more U-shaped than V-shaped, with nice slam and though not the tightest low end, are without much offensive bloat.  They don't have ZS5 or ZST sparkle, but on first blush, have more clarity than the ZS3.  They are smooth operators with a bit of flourish in the detail.  I'm hoping as they break in they will get better, but for the $6.50 I paid, I'm quite pleased.



That sounds promising.  

Can't wait for mine to arrive in the next few days.


----------



## nplateau

slaterlovesspam said:


> Or in other words:
> 
> ZSE > ZS3
> and
> ...



Yup.  And as far as ZST vs .ZSE..  if you find the ZST to be too bright, the ZSE might serve you very well if you don't mind giving up some of the sub-bass extension and prefer a bit more balance and neutrality.


----------



## IamMe90 (Aug 12, 2017)

My  initial, and very (very!) brief impressions of the ZSE were not too positive. I found the sound a bit muddled overall, at least compared to the ZS5 and possibly the ZST, and I also had a hard time getting a good fit; worn cord-down,  they just kept falling out of my ears awkwardly with any sort of movement.

Admittedly, it was really hard for me to find the motivation to listen to them longer than a few minutes since I got them at the same time as my TA Icarus 3. I will have to give them more of a listen when I become bored with the Icks (if that ever actually happens... Lol)


----------



## ridwan47

Just got the ZS5. Feeling underwhelmed. What's the best tips for ZS5?


----------



## peskypesky

ridwan47 said:


> Just got the ZS5. Feeling underwhelmed.



if you're disappointed in the ZS5s....check my post
Post #19776


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 13, 2017)

I was already really digging the sound of my ZS5s....but that was without using a headphone amp. Just now, i plugged in the CMOY, and WOW!!!!  Incredible. Especially the bass. It is HUGE now and the overall sound is just remarkable. I can't believe IEM's can sound this good....*especially* for the $18 I paid.


----------



## allaces305

man i totally agree!!! I usually stay quite and never comment and just read but i just received these zs5's and i paired them up with my fiio q1 i'm in heaven..if burn in makes them sound better OMG!! totally worth the $20...i'm coming from a pair of shp95000 with mr. speakers alpha pads but i wanted something for on the go...buy them and like an Italian mob boss "forget about it"...btw i'm using stock tips so far and the upgraded silver cable..never bothered to even listen with the stock cable...i also purchased the bluetooth cable and will test it out in a bit when i'm brave enough to press pause and take these out my ears..lol


----------



## Slater

ridwan47 said:


> Just got the ZS5. Feeling underwhelmed. What's the best tips for ZS5?



What don't you like about it? If it's too much bass, try the next smaller tip size (people have reported success with this fix). You can also try foam tips (Comply and Comply style copies).

If the comfort is an issue, try removing the memory wire. It's very easy to do and drastically improves the comfort. 

What source are you using? The ZS5 is source dependent, so try different sources (hopefully other than a cell phone). An amp helps too, but some have reported that their amped ZS5 distorts at higher volumes. So YMMV. 

Make sure your cables are plugged in properly - it's easy to switch 1 or both sides the wrong way, and then they'll be out of phase and sound like crap. There has been a least 1 QC issue where 1 or more drivers internally is wired out of phase - there's nothing you can do about that except return them. And some users have found that their cables wired incorrectly, causing an out of phase situation (despite being plugged in the proper direction). The correct way to plug them in is in my signature. And there are test audio files on youtube and audiocheck.net to verify that they are not out of phase.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 13, 2017)

allaces305 said:


> man i totally agree!!! I usually stay quite and never comment and just read but i just received these zs5's and i paired them up with my fiio q1 i'm in heaven..if burn in makes them sound better OMG!! totally worth the $20.


yup. I am just stunned at how great they sound with my CMOY. From metal to classical, they are just a pleasure to listen with.

right now, i'm listening to Johnny Winter's last studio album, and when he solos, it sounds like the guitar amp is in my cranium.

I'm very excited to receive my silver cable and Comply foam tips on Monday to see if these babies can go to yet another level. But if not, I'm in heaven already.


----------



## peskypesky

slaterlovesspam said:


> An amp helps too, but some have reported that their amped ZS5 distorts at higher volumes.



Don't all speakers distort if driven too hard?

I kind of assume they do...


----------



## loomisjohnson

peskypesky said:


> I was already really digging the sound of my ZS5s....but that was without using a headphone amp. Just now, i plugged in the CMOY, and WOW!!!!  Incredible. Especially the bass. It is HUGE now and the overall sound is just remarkable. I can't believe IEM's can sound this good....*especially* for the $18 I paid.


Definitely better and bolder when amped


----------



## smsmasters

Anyone here bought the ZS5/ZST from Gearbest to the UK? How long does it take usually?


----------



## peskypesky

loomisjohnson said:


> Definitely better and bolder when amped


I've never heard such a difference with amping before. The ZS5s are on steroids now! HUGE sound and bursting with musicality.


----------



## toddy0191

smsmasters said:


> Anyone here bought the ZS5/ZST from Gearbest to the UK? How long does it take usually?


 I always give them longer than Aliexpress. Usually 3-4 weeks.


----------



## Frigide

What are nice tips from AliExpress that I should buy for my ZS5?
What diameter are the ZS5?


----------



## Jdnoss

Frigide said:


> What are nice tips from AliExpress that I should buy for my ZS5?
> What diameter are the ZS5?


500 series Comply or jvc spiral dots work


----------



## peskypesky

toddy0191 said:


> I always give them longer than Aliexpress. Usually 3-4 weeks.



took a month for me to get them in NYC.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I love this the thread. To summarize - it sounds like I need a ZS5, zse, and possibly a ZST to cover the bases.


----------



## Francisk

iPhone IEM said:


> I love this the thread. To summarize - it sounds like I need a ZS5, zse, and possibly a ZST to cover the bases.


Yes, the ZST is a definite must to add to your KZ collection


----------



## Slater (Aug 13, 2017)

iPhone IEM said:


> I love this the thread. To summarize - it sounds like I need a ZS5, zse, and possibly a ZST to cover the bases.



Honestly, if I was in the market for an IEM right now I would skip the ZST and get the ZS5 instead. The ZST and ZS5 are similar, but the ZS5 is superior. The ZST has sibilance and sharp treble that can be piercing at times. The ZS5 is much better in this regard.

The ZST is more comfortable though, I'll give it that. It's also VERY forgiving with regards to sources. It even sounds great with the Bluetooth cable

Also, what 'bases' are you trying to cover? Because you may not even need the ZSE as well. My question would be why are you looking at more than 1? If you want a 2nd pair for the gym/work, or if you're getting them for the sake of collecting, that's fine. But there are other IEMs you may like more than the ZSE.

You could also take the money you would have spent on the ZSE/ZST and instead put it towards a silver plated upgrade cable (and/or the KZ Bluetooth cable) for the ZS5. Then you'd have a very solid and well-rounded setup, with a ton of flexibility to boot.

I'm with you on this thread though - KZ is like crack!


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Honestly, if I was in the market for an IEM right now I would skip the ZST and get the ZS5 instead. The ZST and ZS5 are similar, but the ZS5 is superior. The ZST has sibilance and sharp treble that can be piercing at times. The ZS5 is much better in this regard.
> 
> The ZST is more comfortable though, I'll give it that. It's also VERY forgiving with regards to sources. It even sounds great with the Bluetooth cable
> 
> ...



I want the best over ear fit and one stop shop for running. The zse would be for collection and night time purposes. 

If I can get ZS5 with memory wire /bt that would be the best.


----------



## peskypesky

the KZ's are so cheap, why not get them ALL!!!!


----------



## Slater (Aug 13, 2017)

iPhone IEM said:


> I want the best over ear fit and one stop shop for running. The zse would be for collection and night time purposes.
> 
> If I can get ZS5 with memory wire /bt that would be the best.



Night time as in sleeping? The ZSE are gigantic, and for laying in bed you generally want something tiny for falling asleep or laying on a pillow. For bedtime/sleeping, the MEMT X5 is great and is a bargain to boot.

Since you want behind the ear+memory wire and bluetooth option, you'll need a KZ with a removable cable. That means the ZS3, ZST, and ZS5.

Man, if it were me the ZS5 + KZ Bluetooth cable is hard to beat. You can get the ZS5 on sale for $15-$18, and the bluetooth cable as cheap as $7-$9.


----------



## ryokun (Aug 13, 2017)

Francisk said:


> I find the Comply T400 pairs the best with my ZS5.



I ordered one from a local online shop. I think it's not genuine since it's so cheap but I couldn't find a genuine small size T400 here and I can't justify ordering it from the comply website as it cost as much as the zs5 with shipping.

Is this ok? I think those are the same one sold on aliexpress. They sell the comply tips so cheap there.


----------



## kirkftl

Anyone found a cable for the zs5 without the piece of metal in the wire? Tried removing the one from the silver cable and ended up destroying it.


----------



## ricemanhk

kirkftl said:


> Anyone found a cable for the zs5 without the piece of metal in the wire? Tried removing the one from the silver cable and ended up destroying it.



All the current cables come with the metal wire.  There are ways to strip it out without damaging the cable itself, I did it for all mine (stock, silver/gold, BT cable)


----------



## vladstef

Removing the "memory" wire (although this stiff joke of a metal is far from what memory wire should be) can be done to look clean in the end, at least I think mine does, but as you can see, cable likes to bend there because connectors are way too long. Has anyone with removed wire figured out a way to make a sort of a strain relief, I imagine this could be difficult because you can't make it go past the plastic where it bends, unless you go over it. As far as I know there are no cables that come without memory wire for ZS5. Perhaps someone should make a DIY thread specifically for KZ cables as it's one very popular topic.


----------



## ricemanhk

vladstef said:


> Removing the "memory" wire (although this stiff joke of a metal is far from what memory wire should be) can be done to look clean in the end, at least I think mine does, but as you can see, cable likes to bend there because connectors are way too long. Has anyone with removed wire figured out a way to make a sort of a strain relief, I imagine this could be difficult because you can't make it go past the plastic where it bends, unless you go over it. As far as I know there are no cables that come without memory wire for ZS5. Perhaps someone should make a DIY thread specifically for KZ cables as it's one very popular topic.



I think the usual heat shrink tube or some sugru could work.  But while it does bend at the edge of the connector, there's not alot of strain on it so I'm hopeful it shouldn't be too bad.
Worse case get the silver/gold upgrade cable as a back up....altho my ZS5 is the early batch with the 3 button remote and there's no replacement for that for now (new shipments are all back to single button mic control)

Of course, with the frequent new releases of KZ, your cable might still be fine well after the next model comes out


----------



## 1clearhead

nplateau said:


> ZSE just arrived and only have about 5 minutes on them, so take this with a lump of salt.  They resolve well and sound more U-shaped than V-shaped, with nice slam and though not the tightest low end, are without much offensive bloat.  They don't have ZS5 or ZST sparkle, *but on first blush, have more clarity than the ZS3.  They are smooth operators with a bit of flourish in the detail.  I'm hoping as they break in they will get better, but for the $6.50 I paid, I'm quite pleased.*


+1 Yup!...same here!


----------



## 1clearhead

nplateau said:


> LOL!  Nah, I wouldn't got that far.  Especially with only about an hour of listening on them.  They are definitely their own animal though, and to my ears they do present a surprising amount of balance and refinement.  These aren't world beaters by any stretch, but they are really very nice for the price.  I would say that what the ZSE presents is a very nice complimentary piece to the ZS5.  Just like the ZS5 was an improvement over the ZST in some ways, so is the ZSE to the ZS3.  So the proper analogy to describe the relationship would be the ZSE is to the ZS5 what the ZS3 is the the ZST.


+1 Yup! I definitely agree to this as well.


----------



## maxxevv (Aug 15, 2017)

Just had my ZSE's delivered a few hours ago. 

First impressions :  Really awesome for pop music !  As in really, really awesome ...!!!

There's plenty of bass in these, but not the booming, lumpy/ thumpy kind you often get out of many earphones. These have an effortless smooth ease in the bass delivery.
I could probably call it 'clean' but really full-bodied bass, if that's the correct way to describe the bass delivery.

Instrument separation is there but not quite the level of detail you would get from hybrids with a good BA driver on top of the Dynamic driver. In that aspect, the Urbanfun Hi-fi is better. But it sure loses out in the bass part of the delivery.  I was comparing them back to back.
If individual instrument separation and detail are not critical, these are simply awesome. Not that they are bad,they are pretty good already and for most pop music that has a heavy beat, its already very good.

In short, I just had the best delivery of U2's classic "Where the Streets Have No Name" in years.    

I'm not sure how another 12~24 hours burn in may help as there was that murkiness when it came to some vocals delivered at certain wavelengths/frequencies.  Shall have to wait that out to know.

Edit: 
Play source:  LG G6,


----------



## HungryPanda

I agree, the ZSE is a fun earphone to listen to


----------



## Francisk

ryokun said:


> I ordered one from a local online shop. I think it's not genuine since it's so cheap but I couldn't find a genuine small size T400 here and I can't justify ordering it from the comply website as it cost as much as the zs5 with shipping.
> 
> Is this ok? I think those are the same one sold on aliexpress. They sell the comply tips so cheap there.


I'm not so sure about the foam tips that you bought because I haven't tried them myself. Even different model of Comply tips sound different but in the end the T400 sound the sweetest to me...YMMV.


----------



## Slater

ryokun said:


> I ordered one from a local online shop. I think it's not genuine since it's so cheap but I couldn't find a genuine small size T400 here and I can't justify ordering it from the comply website as it cost as much as the zs5 with shipping.
> 
> Is this ok? I think those are the same one sold on aliexpress. They sell the comply tips so cheap there.



I've ordered genuine Comply tips from Amazon in the past. Have you tried there?

Lately I just get the Comply style foam tips from Aliexpress - they are great quality yet are significantly cheaper. You can find them in the proper sizes (SML), as well as multiple nozzle sizes (including the T400 you're looking for).


----------



## vector84 (Aug 14, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Has anyone with removed wire figured out a way to make a sort of a strain relief, I imagine this could be difficult because you can't make it go past the plastic where it bends, unless you go over it.


So this isn't going to be very helpful if you've already stripped your memory wire... but I had similar concerns.
I opted to fashion a strain relief out of the memory wire by leaving about 1/4inch of it:


----------



## mochill

I took off all on the memory wire


----------



## stillWanted (Aug 14, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> I was already really digging the sound of my ZS5s....but that was without using a headphone amp. Just now, i plugged in the CMOY, and WOW!!!!  Incredible. Especially the bass. It is HUGE now and the overall sound is just remarkable. I can't believe IEM's can sound this good....*especially* for the $18 I paid.



Yup, loved my ZS5 with my S7 Exynos and love them even more when plugged to SMSL Idea, huge improvement in terms of bass and soundstage, unbelievable sound quality for less than 100$ 

(long time lurker here, had to register just to say that indeed ZS5 benefit from amping and that SMSL Idea is a good match)


----------



## peskypesky

vector84 said:


> So this isn't going to be very helpful if you've already stripped your memory wire... but I had similar concerns.
> I opted to fashion a strain relief out of the memory wire by leaving about 1/4inch of it:


Great idea!

I took it all off on my pair.

But seeing as how I am over the moon with the ZS5s, I'm going to order another set, and I'll do the same as you.....leave a small bit of the memory wire on.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> So this isn't going to be very helpful if you've already stripped your memory wire... but I had similar concerns.
> I opted to fashion a strain relief out of the memory wire by leaving about 1/4inch of it:



Too late for me, but that's a great idea there buddy!


----------



## vladstef

vector84 said:


> So this isn't going to be very helpful if you've already stripped your memory wire... but I had similar concerns.
> I opted to fashion a strain relief out of the memory wire by leaving about 1/4inch of it:


Awesome idea. As far as I can recall, outer sleeve is flexible enough to perhaps remove most of the memory wire and leave a bit of sleeve as a strain relief. I would be scared to leave memory wire all the way to the end of the sleeve as it could damage the cable, being that its sharp metal because of cutting. Maybe it's harder to do this than I think, but I could try it with silver cable, although it feels like a different material, the sleeve part. Without memory wire, cables tend to go all over the place if you move your head to the left/right (I think for most people it's like this), some weight system similar to ATE might work, but this problem is small and not in your face the way memory wire is.


----------



## mixolyd

I just ordered a pair of ZS5's for £14.  Is it ok to judge these with their stock cable?  I'm not one for believing in "cable tone" though I'd be open to replacing an annoying cable if I know I already enjoy the iem.  I'm sure I have some comply tips kicking about somewhere so that should be a ok.

I've not tried KZ's since the early days when I had their top iem: the KZ EDSE!  They were kinda fun, but rather awkward to fit and far from detailed.  I'm braced to see how far KZ have come.


----------



## peskypesky

mixolyd said:


> I just ordered a pair of ZS5's for £14. Is it ok to judge these with their stock cable? I'm not one for believing in "cable tone" though I'd be open to replacing an annoying cable if I know I already enjoy the iem. I'm sure I have some comply tips kicking about somewhere so that should be a ok.



Hope you enjoy them! I love mine.

And i just received my package with Comply foam tips and silver upgrade cable for them. Have to go get the package from the mailroom when I get a chance.

I myself am not a believer that the cord will make an audible difference, but hopefully it will be less prone to tangling. The stock one is pretty bad.


----------



## peskypesky

It's like Christmas here!






Just received Comply tips and upgrade cable for my ZS5.

And also received the Yin JW P8s.   

Should be a fun evening of music listening, chi-fi style.


----------



## NeonHD

1clearhead said:


> WOW!....I'm just stunned! So far, I've been burning-in the *KZ ZSE* for over 65 hours and been listening to them for several hours, as well. And I have to say that I'm in disbelief! I did some research and one dynamic works as a sub-woofer, while the other driver works as a midrange and tweeter set-up! These are truly EPIC for their price! They even slightly better the ZS5 in a more comfortable listening experience, even though they have more of a similar characteristic in sound, which is incredible for the ZSE and the price your paying for!
> 
> All in all, these are EPIC for their price and their unique sound signature!
> 
> ...



How much did you buy it for? They're around US $6.49 right now for the mic version on eBay, but don't know if the price is still going to drop.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> How much did you buy it for? They're around US $6.49 right now for the mic version on eBay, *but don't know if the price is still going to drop*.



Lemme check on that for you LOL


----------



## NeonHD

slaterlovesspam said:


> Lemme check on that for you LOL



BTW I was just reading your review when you replied lol.


----------



## vector84

vladstef said:


> Awesome idea. As far as I can recall, outer sleeve is flexible enough to perhaps remove most of the memory wire and leave a bit of sleeve as a strain relief. I would be scared to leave memory wire all the way to the end of the sleeve as it could damage the cable, being that its sharp metal because of cutting. Maybe it's harder to do this than I think, but I could try it with silver cable, although it feels like a different material, the sleeve part. Without memory wire, cables tend to go all over the place if you move your head to the left/right (I think for most people it's like this), some weight system similar to ATE might work, but this problem is small and not in your face the way memory wire is.


On mine at least the metal wire is on the front/outside of the cable sheath and the cable bends away from it in use so I'm not too terribly worried about it damaging the cable and it ends up providing additional strain relief... I was originally going to try to yank it out entirely but mine were quite securely mounted and I didn't want to damage the cable inside or at the edge of the housing, so i just sheered it off just below the end of the sleeve and bent it slightly away from the cable.  I also put a slight bend inwards in it to help direct the cable over my ear. 

My camerawork needs some work but maybe you can kinda see what I'm talking about:


----------



## nplateau

peskypesky said:


> It's like Christmas here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interested to hear your thoughts on the P8s to see if they match what I've posted already or if I'm the crazy one hahaha.


----------



## NeonHD

Ahh screw the price, just bought the KZ ZSE from eBay, can't wait to try it when it arrives xD


----------



## ricemanhk

peskypesky said:


> It's like Christmas here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks to be an upgrade cable for ZST though...?


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> That looks to be an upgrade cable for ZST though...?


----------



## young59

Guys do you know the kz brand  of amp,dac. I am not an audiophile in any way I just have the ZS3 and thinking if there are any cheap great value for the money ways to upgrade my audio experience like an amp or dac. I am also looking to buy the ZS5 their  review here has been really great so gathering some money to order those maybe its a good thing I don't earn then I would have probably bought every pair of kz there are.


----------



## vector84

ricemanhk said:


> That looks to be an upgrade cable for ZST though...?


It sure does look like a ZST cable - and assuming it's 2nd gen (.75mm) not 1st gen (.78mm) that would probably explain the fit issues with it that he reported over in the Chinese brand thread.


On a vaguely related note, the new metal housings ZST cables showed up on Amazon recently from **** (ie Amazon fulfillment, not a random seller)...
Does anyone happen to know if there's a similar updated ZS3/ZS5 upgrade cable?  I could've sworn I saw one but I can't seem to find it.


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Aug 15, 2017)

Got my KZ ZS3/ZS5 BT cable today.  2 weeks from AliExpress.  Says both BT 4.2 on the box and in the manual.

Since my ZS5 isn't here yet, I put my ZS3 on them

Some unboxing pics.  More to come.  Apparently I forgot to take a picture of the cable installed oops.
















Comes with a neat little micro USB cable that's magnetic and sticks together.  So far it sounds pretty good with my ZS3.  Noise floor is a bit on the higher side but it only kicks in when audio starts streaming so it doesn't bug me that much.

Cable is a bit thin for my liking.  I prefer heavier, flat cables for wireless buds.  Also agreed that the module needs to be about 1" higher up on the right side.  It half-sits on my shoulder and eventually drags most of the cable around to my right side.


----------



## ricemanhk

vector84 said:


> It sure does look like a ZST cable - and assuming it's 2nd gen (.75mm) not 1st gen (.78mm) that would probably explain the fit issues with it that he reported over in the Chinese brand thread.
> 
> 
> On a vaguely related note, the new metal housings ZST cables showed up on Amazon recently from **** (ie Amazon fulfillment, not a random seller)...
> Does anyone happen to know if there's a similar updated ZS3/ZS5 upgrade cable?  I could've sworn I saw one but I can't seem to find it.



Silver cable with metal housings is still only available for ZST from what I can find on taobao.  Haven't seen them yet for ZS3/ZS5.


----------



## VinceHill24

A brief chat with KZ just now reveals to me that they will be having ZS5 in metallic shell soon. They said it'll be sometime end of August and no picture nor price was disclosed to me. Let's see how it'll turn out .. i wonder if the metallic housing's gonna affect the sound overall.


----------



## ricemanhk

VinceHill24 said:


> A brief chat with KZ just now reveals to me that they will be having ZS5 in metallic shell soon. They said it'll be sometime end of August and no picture nor price was disclosed to me. Let's see how it'll turn out .. i wonder if the metallic housing's gonna affect the sound overall.



Hmm I think those who have the CAs say ZS5 more comfy (well less uncomfy) coz plastic shell is lighter...?


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> Hmm I think those who have the CAs say ZS5 more comfy (well less uncomfy) coz plastic shell is lighter...?


Hmm, i think each to their own. There's always 2 sides of things. Remembered how the ZS5 was touted a cheap plastic rip off of CA when it was launched. Now it's one of the best budget earphone that's pretty well received in the audiophile community. Actually i don't find there's a need at all to put out a metallic version but well ppl may be interested. Don't think i'll be getting it tho since my next target is the Kinera H3.


----------



## ricemanhk

VinceHill24 said:


> Hmm, i think each to their own. There's always 2 sides of things. Remembered how the ZS5 was touted a cheap plastic rip off of CA when it was launched. Now it's one of the best budget earphone that's pretty well received in the audiophile community. Actually i don't find there's a need at all to put out a metallic version but well ppl may be interested. Don't think i'll be getting it tho since my next target is the Kinera H3.



The design is STILL a cheap plastic rip off of CA, that hasn't changed LOL
I agree though, unless the metallic version is sonically different or maybe is the rumored ZSR pro with 5 drivers on each side, I'm not gonna get it.  Then again, I didn't think I would get ZSE and now I have 2 pairs arriving this week


----------



## maxxevv

maxxevv said:


> Just had my ZSE's delivered a few hours ago.
> 
> First impressions :  Really awesome for pop music !  As in really, really awesome ...!!!
> 
> ...



As a follow-up on my original impressions,  I realised that the sound of the ZSE is heavily affected by the source player too. 

My initial impression was from playing it on my LG G6. Which is considered to be pretty clean and neutral in output by those who have compared it with other DAP/DAC/ phone sources.   

Today played more or less the same tracks using the headphone jack on my Lenovo Thinkpad.  It was a real night and day difference.  It sounded as some people would describe it as "dark". The bright clean effortlessly smooth sound I got yesterday was completely changed.  Tweaking of the equalizers available didn't help much at all to improve the overall signature of the sound.  

So, I think for overall best results from the ZSE, its best to pair it with something that's a little on the bright side of neutral.  It probably explains (to some extent) the differing opinions on it.  

Hope this helps in the overall assessment and analysis of the earphone.


----------



## KainHighwind

Just received the Rock Zircon (I want to try different brand and the review on some pages are so positive) and disappointed, I should buy ZSE or save some more for ZS5.


----------



## 129207

I received the "upgraded" silver cable for my ZS5. Not sure if it's an upgrade; I prefer the sound with the stock cables! 

No phase issues and everything fits well, but there is, to me, a noticeable drop in resolution. Now, I'm firmly in the "cables don't make a difference" camp, and I've never heard a cable change the sound of an ear- or headphone before, but the new cable sounds like poop. There's nothing wrong with the soundstage or image, it just sounds like I lost some resolution. A bit like the difference between FLAC and 160kbps files. I have no explanation for this. Anyone notice anything similar or prefered the stock cable over the upgraded cable?


----------



## Viber

KainHighwind said:


> Just received the Rock Zircon (I want to try different brand and the review on some pages are so positive) and disappointed, I should buy ZSE or save some more for ZS5.



It's too bad you missed my post on this a few pages back.  The ZS3 is a better product than the Zircons. 
 Haven't tried the ZSE/ZS5 yet.


----------



## 1clearhead

NeonHD said:


> How much did you buy it for? They're around US $6.49 right now for the mic version on eBay, but don't know if the price is still going to drop.


I saw your latest post that you actually bought them....Cheers! 

....By the way, at the time I bought them, the lowest price was 44 RMB ($6.60). But, the lowest price now is 40 RMB ($6 dollars).


----------



## ricemanhk

1clearhead said:


> I saw your latest post that you actually bought them....Cheers!
> 
> ....By the way, at the time I bought them, the lowest price was 44 RMB ($6.60). But, the lowest price now is 40 RMB ($6 dollars).



mine are 49rmb with mic, 39rmb without 
the shop gave me a 10rmb coupon off instead of the usual 5rmb


----------



## aisalen

Negakinu said:


> I received the "upgraded" silver cable for my ZS5. Not sure if it's an upgrade; I prefer the sound with the stock cables!
> 
> No phase issues and everything fits well, but there is, to me, a noticeable drop in resolution. Now, I'm firmly in the "cables don't make a difference" camp, and I've never heard a cable change the sound of an ear- or headphone before, but the new cable sounds like poop. There's nothing wrong with the soundstage or image, it just sounds like I lost some resolution. A bit like the difference between FLAC and 160kbps files. I have no explanation for this. Anyone notice anything similar or prefered the stock cable over the upgraded cable?


I'm using those and I do not notice a difference but not sure though, and prefer for it due to easy handling and soft compare to original. Besides I like the sq coming from zs5 using this cable so no problem for me.


----------



## vladstef

Negakinu said:


> I received the "upgraded" silver cable for my ZS5. Not sure if it's an upgrade; I prefer the sound with the stock cables!
> 
> No phase issues and everything fits well, but there is, to me, a noticeable drop in resolution. Now, I'm firmly in the "cables don't make a difference" camp, and I've never heard a cable change the sound of an ear- or headphone before, but the new cable sounds like poop. There's nothing wrong with the soundstage or image, it just sounds like I lost some resolution. A bit like the difference between FLAC and 160kbps files. I have no explanation for this. Anyone notice anything similar or prefered the stock cable over the upgraded cable?


There are people who say that any sort of silver in cables needs about 50-100h of listening time to sound proper. So this goes for silver plated cables as well and not just pure silver cables. Imho, use regular cable but leave silver ones over night to burn in a bit, perhaps it will change enough to match stock cable at least. If it doesn't, no harm was done.


----------



## 129207

vladstef said:


> There are people who say that any sort of silver in cables needs about 50-100h of listening time to sound proper. So this goes for silver plated cables as well and not just pure silver cables. Imho, use regular cable but leave silver ones over night to burn in a bit, perhaps it will change enough to match stock cable at least. If it doesn't, no harm was done.



Haha thanks! I appreciate it. I'd sooner believe the earth is flat than that cables need burn-in though.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 15, 2017)

Negakinu said:


> I received the "upgraded" silver cable for my ZS5. Not sure if it's an upgrade; I prefer the sound with the stock cables!
> 
> No phase issues and everything fits well, but there is, to me, a noticeable drop in resolution. Now, I'm firmly in the "cables don't make a difference" camp, and I've never heard a cable change the sound of an ear- or headphone before, but the new cable sounds like poop. There's nothing wrong with the soundstage or image, it just sounds like I lost some resolution. A bit like the difference between FLAC and 160kbps files. I have no explanation for this. Anyone notice anything similar or prefered the stock cable over the upgraded cable?


I tend towards the boat of — cables don't matter... unless they do.

And I'm not trying to say it's just a psychoacoustic effect (not that there's anything wrong with enjoying a psychoacoustic effect either... perception colors our reality in so many other ways...) but rather that if you hear (or think you hear) differences between cables, you're probably going to go on hearing those differences, whether they're psychoacoustic or not.

Not to mention that if you could actually produce a discrete proof that there is something potentially audible there... the implications are the sorts of things that could change the world in immeasurable ways — after all, information theory gave us the entirety of the digital world we now live in. But I digress.



But if you don't normally hear differences in cables and you're hearing something noticeable... Well, since you already ruled out phase issues, if you've got a multimeter handy try checking for partial shorts or abnormally high resistance — since it seems like cable QC is... probably the weakest link here be it stock cable or upgrade cable.

Is it a mic'd stock cable?  Improper connections there might be able to produce significant audible changes.


There are other things I could think of but they tend to fall into that first group I mentioned — like from a technical perspective unshielded (and unbalanced) twisted pairs are just longer wire runs, thus prone to higher noise floors.  But unless you're standing in front of an open microwave that shouldn't really be an issue... and if you are... I think you have bigger problems than cable choices.


----------



## peskypesky

ricemanhk said:


> That looks to be an upgrade cable for ZST though...?


----------



## peskypesky

KainHighwind said:


> Just received the Rock Zircon (I want to try different brand and the review on some pages are so positive) and disappointed, I should buy ZSE or save some more for ZS5.


Really? I love my Rock Zircons.  

Next time I'm in Vietnam, I'll buy yours from you so you can put the money towards the ZS5.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm...  a phase issue might explain a previous experience now that I think about it.  I used one of the KZ cables, can't remember which one, on a Rose Pudding just because I dislike the short length on the Rose's cable, plus the memory aspect of the cable at the over ear portion as it has just enough to try to twist the IEM out of a proper seal.  I've never been a cable-difference believer, but I was quite shocked because there was a rather distinct amount of missing bass in an otherwise basshead-capable IEM.  I never remember which KZ cables use .75mm & .78mm, and the Rose uses .75mm to my slight annoyance, so someone with a better memory can answer for me which cable I was using I'm sure.  I'll get around to trying again and see what the outcome is at some point.


----------



## 129207 (Aug 15, 2017)

vector84 said:


> But if you don't normally hear differences in cables and you're hearing something noticeable... Well, since you already ruled out phase issues, if you've got a multimeter handy try checking for partial shorts or abnormally high resistance — since it seems like cable QC is... probably the weakest link here be it stock cable or upgrade cable.



Solid advice! Thanks! I have a multimeter somewhere. 

My stock cable is unmic'ed, by the way.


----------



## groucho69

peskypesky said:


>



Nice selfie!


----------



## peskypesky

IamMe90 said:


> I have had the ZS5 for a couple weeks and it is a steal for the price.  I will have the ZST (accidentally ordered it thinking it was the ZS5 initially) when I get home from work today and can give a quick side by side comparison for you then. But from what I understand, the 5 is supposed to be a fairly substantial upgrade.


Did you ever post your comparison?


----------



## young59 (Aug 15, 2017)

Guys any word/news on the ZSR PRO?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 15, 2017)

Just got the ZS5!  At first I plugged it in wrong because I inserted the cable plugs how the memory wire portion came.  I first thought it sounded like crap. LOL. Then I looked at the images on Google, and plugged them in correctly. Not bad, certainly not for $20(although I paid more on Amazon).  More impressions to come.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 15, 2017)

ZS5 have good width sound stage, surprised.  I did'nt expect much of these, and these are better than expected.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 15, 2017)

ZS5 are definately under priced, very good performance per price ratio(come on, let's compared to some crazy prices for iems that out there now a days).

Some realization from tip rolling.  It seems in general wide bore tips can reduce the highs too much to the point that there isn't enough definition, and mids become too entangled with the bass.  I mean the highs are cut off a good deal.  For iems tip has a lot of weight on sound, and likely the tip bore size the iems comes with would have the best or at least intended sound.  So, it's good to have many differening sized bore tips, different material, thickness, etc.. in your arsenal.  Always try out many types to get the right sound of of them no matter how good or crappy they initially sound.

There is a difference the sound outputted from AK380 to my ODAC/O2 combo.  ODAC/O2 combo has brighter output(or the AK380 do not put out much sparkle).  I think these two sources are contrasting with the AK380 closer to the better level sound spectrum. So, take your pick.  Like some brightness or relaxed? Who said sources do not sound different?

And by the way, the fit on the ZS5 are good.  I'm one of those types that has trouble with iems that are shallow fit.  Not the ZS5.


----------



## nplateau

SilverEars said:


> ZS5 are definately under priced, very good performance per price ratio(come on, let's compared to some crazy prices for iems that out there now a days).
> 
> Some realization from tip rolling.  It seems in general wide bore tips can reduce the highs too much to the point that there isn't enough definition, and mids become too entangled with the bass.  I mean the highs are cut off a good deal.  For iems tip has a lot of weight on sound, and likely the tip bore size the iems comes with would have the best or at least intended sound.  So, it's good to have many differening sized bore tips, different material, thickness, etc.. in your arsenal.  Always try out many types to get the right sound of of them no matter how good or crappy they initially sound.
> 
> ...



Well that's interesting.  For me, the widebore JVC Spiral Dots have provided the best overall sound quality with the ZS5 (not a real fan of foams but others seem to really like the Comply 500).  The spiral dots have tamed some of the bass bloat while retaining the crispness and clarity of the highs.  I found the KZ whirlwinds (or whatever they are called) to accentuate the bass in a rather ungainly manner.  

Indeed, source does play a vital role in the sound chain.  Fortunately in my experience the ZS5 doesn't seem to erode in any major way with any of my sources, but instead does seem to scale well enough.  Normally I play them through my Cayin N3 and they sound great, but pairing them through my IDSD BL does give it a definite extra something.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 15, 2017)

This is more of realization after trying out the Final Audio E3000 and the ZS5(both had same behaviors when it came to bore sizing).  The E3000(pricier by the way, 2X, but not that bad compared to their other models) is pretty similar to my stock AKG(so called $100 iems that Samsung claims) that came with my S8.  Both dynamic and mids and recessed(individually to different degree).  I guess that's the strength to the BA in alot of ways, the mids, and uppers.  Dynamics seems to output more toward V or U sigs.  Likely, there are better tuned dynamics though.

I had similar experience with ToGo! 334 back in the days.  Narrow bore reduced clarity and raised the highs a bit.  That iem was a bit different though. It had 3 bores for the ranges, and it was better to not obstruct the passageway.


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## SilverEars (Aug 15, 2017)

I really like the ZS5.  I got several headphones today, and there were all the lower priced ones I was curious about, and out of them all, the only one I'm happy with is the ZS5.  The price, fit, the sound is very good for the money.  I was looking for something inexpensive I can use for multiple purpose like take to the gym, and just movie watching, and these fit really well(pretty well rounded).  I got a couple of inexpensive over-ear headphones for computer usage/movie watching, and was assuming they'd be better for it than the iems, but was I wrong.  I was expecting the ZS5 to the lowest performing, but pretty much the opposite.  Definitely a keeper!!


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## peskypesky

SilverEars said:


> I really like the ZS5.  I got several headphones today, and there were all the lower priced ones I was curious about, and out of them all, the only one I'm happy with is the ZS5.  The price, fit, the sound is very good for the money.  I was looking for something inexpensive I can use for multiple purpose like take to the gym, and just movie watching, and these fit really well(pretty well rounded).  I got a couple of inexpensive over-ear headphones for computer usage/movie watching, and was assuming they'd be better for it than the iems, but was I wrong.  I was expecting the ZS5 to the lowest performing, but pretty much the opposite.  Definitely a keeper!!


yup. I every time I put them in my ears and start cranking the music, I am blown away by the sound from the ZS5s.


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## SilverEars

peskypesky said:


> yup. I every time I put them in my ears and start cranking the music, I am blown away by the sound from the ZS5s.


Any other budget iems you'd recommend that performs as well or even better?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 15, 2017)

I like the bass on these, tight and moves a lot air, reaches low.  Must be the dynamic drivers doing the work.  There is no U or V sound with this.  Sounds pretty even, and you can change the level of bass by swapping out the large or medium tips.  Sound stage is wide and sounds dynamic, and the highs are just about enough(not on the bright side or dark sounding).  The bass is distinguished from the mids as long as I wear the stock tips(the larger bore tips reduces the highs and bass and mids overlaps which reduces bass and mids coherency).

Drives well out of anything including my smartphone and doesn't sound worse out of it(or atleast not much significant difference as long as the source is not bright sounding, which my ODAC/O2 did).  The audio plug fits though my smartphone case as it's narrow kind.


----------



## trumpethead

peskypesky said:


> I was already really digging the sound of my ZS5s....but that was without using a headphone amp. Just now, i plugged in the CMOY, and WOW!!!!  Incredible. Especially the bass. It is HUGE now and the overall sound is just remarkable. I can't believe IEM's can sound this good....*especially* for the $18 I paid.



That was my experience when I amped them as well.. It didn't take much but they really do scale up. I used my little Fiio E6 amp.


----------



## danimoca

SilverEars said:


> This is more of realization after trying out the Final Audio E3000 and the ZS5(both had same behaviors when it came to bore sizing).  The E3000(pricier by the way, 2X, but not that bad compared to their other models) is pretty similar to my stock AKG(so called $100 iems that Samsung claims) that came with my S8.  Both dynamic and mids and recessed(individually to different degree).  I guess that's the strength to the BA in alot of ways, the mids, and uppers.  Dynamics seems to output more toward V or U sigs.  Likely, there are better tuned dynamics though.
> 
> I had similar experience with ToGo! 334 back in the days.  Narrow bore reduced clarity and raised the highs a bit.  That iem was a bit different though. It had 3 bores for the ranges, and it was better to not obstruct the passageway.



I was thinking of buying the E3000, but that sounds interesting.

So, you think the ZS5's are superior to the E3000? How do they compare?

Thanks!


----------



## themindfreak

Just received my KZ ZSE today. When I first tried them I was underwhelmed as the the mids were pretty recessed when I played at a moderately low volume. These definitely are V-shaped but with quite a lot of warmth in its signature. Bass punch is very prominent and strong while being controlled. However the most prominent aspect of the bass is that compared to the zs5, it has a less tighter bass. However if you dont really have VERY tight bass iems, you wont really notice its bass looseness. In fact w/o my KZ ZS5 or my Sony Xba N3ap I wouldnt be able to tell if the bass was even loose or not. Mids are recessed but luckily not as recessed as zircons or sennheiser momentums... Which I guess counts as acceptable to me. Best part of KZ ZSE IMO is its highs. Its those kind of highs that is always there in the mix of the stage, meaning it has more presence in the highs than the KZ ZS3. Best part of the highs is that is cymbals sound very nice crisp, neutral and sounds very uncoloured. I tend to find dynamic driver highs very coloured and this includes zircons and senn momentums.( Oops wow same example haha) The ZSE is definitely better than the KZ ZS3 IMO. Btw this are all first impressions for the past 15 mins of listening. From what I believe, even though I dont really find absolutely GREAT OR EXCELLENT NOW, I do believe I need brain burn in for me to fully appreciate them. I can definitely see myself enjoy them over these few days. Just to mention it again, I really find the highs freaking impressive though. It was the bass and mids that disappointed me. JMO


----------



## Mellowship

KZ ZSE first impressions!

I got the ZSE about a week ago, but only had time to audition them over the past couple of days. I think these IEMs are kind of a specific cornerstone for KZ, both in terms of topology - they are open backs all the way - and aesthetics, with the retro 80's look, the clear transparent plastic and the reddish cable and details. 

Lets start with the negative aspects. The most, so far, is the microphonics. This cable can only be worn down, and having quite a big housing and a snuggle fit in the ears means that the slightest movement or friction on the cable - which doesn't help either by being the rubbery kind KZ has used us with - will make noises. Lots of it. The form factor of the ZSE makes them impossible to wear the cable behind the ears, unless you wear the left one in the right ear and the right one in the left and then invert the channels on your source (providing that that source allows you to). And even when you do it, it won't stop completely from transmitting noises up the cable. The only thing that can keep thinks a tad better is trying to fixate the cable to whatever surface you have, for instance, by using a shirt clip (or more than one...). It was about time for KZ to introduce chin sliders to improve this sort of problems. I wish these IEMs had MMCX connectors so I could invert the sides and use them around the ear... If you are sensitive to microphonics, stay away from these!!! Another aspect that can be regarded as negative is the open back. The sound escapes form the grills big time, which means two things: the bloke at your side at the office or public transportation will be able to listen to the music you're listening to; the outside noises will bleed in. I think the vented backs help in other aspects such as the soundstage and the bass control.

Now for the positive: 
The looks are interesting, it kind of reminds me of something from the 80s with that metal grill. The red on the interior of the transparent housings and the cable is also a nice touch. 
They are quite comfy (except for the microphonics...), and the KZ star tips give, for me, the best insertion possible, while helping the sonic qualities remain nice. 
As for the sound... they are good. They remind me of the ATR, but lively and crispier, while remaining neutral with a slight thump on the bass. They are very different from the other ZS IEMs. The highs are not as defined as the ZS5's and not as shy as the ZS3's, the mids are quite well resolved and the bass does not bleed onto the higher spectre, nor has a great amount of sub-bass. The instrument placement is quite good, and has a wide soundstage, with great channel separation. I guess the open back helps in this particular. 
Being reasonably neutral and mildly fun, with good resolution and a quite wide soundstage, makes the ZSEs one of the most sonically achieved IEMs from the latest iteration of KZ earphones. 

If it wasn't for the awful microphonics, these ZSE would be a total winner for the price!


----------



## vladstef

So, after about a month with ZS5, I can say that they are indeed very very good. Foam tips are a must imho, they remove most of the bass bloat and keep everything in place (they are also good for isolation because these are a shallow fit after all). When it comes to sound, it is amazing for the price but not groundbreaking, highs have very apparent flaws and imperfections, mids are not prominent the way they should be (even if something is V or U shaped) and there is a lack of slam and impact to everything, it just sounds a bit lazy. Sub bass is a huge huge plus and they are clean overall, sound is presented in a good way in terms of soundstage and imaging akin to much more expensive IEMs. Obviously I am using some very high standards for something that is 20$, but they demand it, they are that good. I am curious, why is it this difficult to get that impact and good mids in IEM form factor when something like Vido earbuds do it so well for 4$? I don't think it's only the form factor, maybe KZ is just focusing on slightly wrong things - I am not bashing them, KZ is our hero regardless!


----------



## eaglesgift

vladstef said:


> So, after about a month with ZS5, I can say that they are indeed very very good. Foam tips are a must imho, they remove most of the bass bloat and keep everything in place (they are also good for isolation because these are a shallow fit after all). When it comes to sound, it is amazing for the price but not groundbreaking, highs have very apparent flaws and imperfections, mids are not prominent the way they should be (even if something is V or U shaped) and there is a lack of slam and impact to everything, it just sounds a bit lazy. Sub bass is a huge huge plus and they are clean overall, sound is presented in a good way in terms of soundstage and imaging akin to much more expensive IEMs. Obviously I am using some very high standards for something that is 20$, but they demand it, they are that good. I am curious, why is it this difficult to get that impact and good mids in IEM form factor when something like Vido earbuds do it so well for 4$? I don't think it's only the form factor, maybe KZ is just focusing on slightly wrong things - I am not bashing them, KZ is our hero regardless!


I'm using ordinary silicone tips that came with the ED9 (I think) on my ZS5s and I don't find the bass bloated at all. I also don't find the mids recessed, quite the opposite really. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what mids are but a female vocalist would be at the lower end of the mid range right? They are quite prominent to me when listening with the ZS5s.


----------



## maxxevv

I have the ZSE which is highly source influenced in terms of output. Maybe the ZS5 is similar? 

To clarify, the ZSE on my laptop headphone jack versus on my LG G6 jack are very different sounding earphones.  But comparatively, the UrbanFun HiFi's and the Vivo XE800 are not so badly affected swapping between sources.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 16, 2017)

vladstef said:


> So, after about a month with ZS5, I can say that they are indeed very very good. Foam tips are a must imho, they remove most of the bass bloat and keep everything in place (they are also good for isolation because these are a shallow fit after all). When it comes to sound, it is amazing for the price but not groundbreaking, highs have very apparent flaws and imperfections, mids are not prominent the way they should be (even if something is V or U shaped) and there is a lack of slam and impact to everything, it just sounds a bit lazy. Sub bass is a huge huge plus and they are clean overall, sound is presented in a good way in terms of soundstage and imaging akin to much more expensive IEMs. Obviously I am using some very high standards for something that is 20$, but they demand it, they are that good. I am curious, why is it this difficult to get that impact and good mids in IEM form factor when something like Vido earbuds do it so well for 4$? I don't think it's only the form factor, maybe KZ is just focusing on slightly wrong things - I am not bashing them, KZ is our hero regardless!


I don't think mids are noticibly recessed to call them as such(I have a couple dynamics that are U or V shaped sig).  These do well with electronic music and has slam to it.  It doesn't sound like bass or highs are overwhelming the mids that mids are not coherent. Fairly even sounding.  If you are comparing to buds, could it be that mids sounds raised due to the lack of isolation?  Hard to imagine buds would be better than these.

Anyway, ordered another pair since I need a microphone cable.  Will see if there is quality inconsistancy.


----------



## SilverEars

danimoca said:


> I was thinking of buying the E3000, but that sounds interesting.
> 
> So, you think the ZS5's are superior to the E3000? How do they compare?
> 
> Thanks!


ZS5 is definately better than the E3000.  E3000 is much less sensitive and a bit hard to drive.  E3000 doesn't have the sound stage and dynamics ZS5 does.  Not really exciting as the ZS5.  E3000 sounds a bit recessed in the mids.  ZS5 has more bass slam.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 16, 2017)

vladstef said:


> So, after about a month with ZS5, I can say that they are indeed very very good. Foam tips are a must imho, they remove most of the bass bloat and keep everything in place (they are also good for isolation because these are a shallow fit after all). When it comes to sound, it is amazing for the price but not groundbreaking, highs have very apparent flaws and imperfections, mids are not prominent the way they should be (even if something is V or U shaped) and there is a lack of slam and impact to everything, it just sounds a bit lazy. Sub bass is a huge huge plus and they are clean overall, sound is presented in a good way in terms of soundstage and imaging akin to much more expensive IEMs. Obviously I am using some very high standards for something that is 20$, but they demand it, they are that good. I am curious, why is it this difficult to get that impact and good mids in IEM form factor when something like Vido earbuds do it so well for 4$? I don't think it's only the form factor, maybe KZ is just focusing on slightly wrong things - I am not bashing them, KZ is our hero regardless!


I think you must have gotten a defective pair of ZS5's. Mine have none of the audio issues you mentioned.

Or maybe you aren't getting a good fit in your ears?


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## SilverEars (Aug 16, 2017)

Also, I try out different tracks/genres to get an avg impression.  Mids are track dependent.  I think tracks one's most familiar with give a better impression.

I haven't done as deep monitoring yet with various sources.  Will provide more info on it's depency on various sources.

Something about these is very engaging, I couldn't put it down listening to high energy dance tracks last night.  Like I feel the energy of the track.


----------



## maxxevv

Yes, its a very engaging listen for energetic pieces!  

As I mentioned, it gave me the best rendition of U2's 'Where the Streets Have No Name" in years! The last time it sounded so good was on a friend's $5k hi-fi setup.  

That being said, it was really sweet sounding with Cyndi Lauper and Sarah Mclachlan's  duet "Time after Time" too. 

Seems to me that they have tuned it very appropriately for general pop and pop vocal tracks.   

These were based on it being played on the LG G6 (Asian version with Quad DAC).  The above tracks didn't sound anywhere near as crisp when it was played back my Lenovo Thinkpad phone jack.


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## vladstef

peskypesky said:


> I think you must have gotten a defective pair of ZS5's. Mine have none of the audio issues you mentioned.
> 
> Or maybe you aren't getting a good fit in your ears?


Oh, no, these are not issues, just areas where you can notice definitive improvement with more expensive IEMs compared to ZS5. I've previously had Xiaomi Pro HD for this price range and ZS5 are just better, including the areas where I think ZS5 could further be improved, mids especially. I never said that I dislike them, not by a long shot, just that there are legitimate areas where I could notice somethings to be lacking. Again, when I talk about shortcomings, I am not taking price into consideration, just the sound. They are mind blowing for 20$, less so if you look at the sound in isolated perspective. For example, I had Shure se215 and Senn IE800 in the past, just looking at the sound, I would put ZS5 closer to IE800 than se215 in terms of overall sound quality and in terms of balance. This says a lot about something that is many many times less expensive even if we take time into consideration, IEMs that I compared ZS5 to are getting quite old now. Imho, put a 100$ price tag on ZS5 with better QC and accessories and you have a solid product, this is how good they sound to me at this point. To get a definitively better sound you need to pay closer to 200$, and that's why ZS5 is a king with this price tag.


----------



## Tweeters

I know they're a different price bracket but realistically, how does ZS5 compare to Pinnacle P1's?


----------



## HungryPanda

On my ZS5's I'm using the silver replacement cable and mandarinEs wide bore tips and they sound phenomenal for the price


----------



## NeonHD

Has anyone here tried the KZ Bluetooth upgrade cable for the ZST/ZS3/ZS5? If so, can you give your opinions on it? Any connectivity or latency issues? And what about battery life?


----------



## danimoca

Anyone can compare the ZS5's to the Hifiman RE-400's?

Thanks


----------



## Slater (Aug 16, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> Has anyone here tried the KZ Bluetooth upgrade cable for the ZST/ZS3/ZS5? If so, can you give your opinions on it? Any connectivity or latency issues? And what about battery life?



I have both the ZS3/ZS5 and the ZST version. For $7 it's a good deal.

I think the sound of the cable is the best on the ZST by far - maybe it's the impedance, but I don't like how it sounds on the ZS3 or ZS5. On the ZST, the difference between hard wired and bluetooth is barely noticeable.

Battery life is a solid 3.5hrs, although I've gotten 4 hours on a number of occasions.

A minor bit of latency - a few milliseconds. Enough to notice it when watching videos or movies. I wouldn't use it for that.

As far as connectivity, I've used it on 2 different iPads, 2 different iPhones, laptop, desktop, HTC Android phone, and iPod Touch. Connected to them all.

The big downside is that it can be sensitive to interference, especially outdoors. It doesn't drop the connection, but rather does a very brief 'skip' in the music. Only 1 of my cables is affected**, which is odd. A few others on HF have reported this phenomenon as well (although some on HF have no issues whatsoever with their bluetooth cables). I discovered the issue with mine was a design defect in the length of the antenna, and I developed a fix for the issue. Now the cable is perfect - zero skips, and the range is doubled. I outlined the details here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1284#post-13623298

** It's possible that my flaky cable may have been one of the early ones (known to have connection problems which KZ later corrected). I say this because the box it came in said bluetooth 4.1, where as the new ones are all bluetooth 4.2 (including my 2nd cable). The weird thing is that early cables were supposed to have 1-2hr battery life, and my cable in question gets 3-4 hours. I didn't look into it too much though - maybe I got the early cable, or maybe I got the latest cable yet it was defective in some way. I really didn't care because I corrected the antenna/skipping issue, and use the cable all the time.


----------



## CYoung234

vladstef said:


> So, after about a month with ZS5, I can say that they are indeed very very good. Foam tips are a must imho, they remove most of the bass bloat and keep everything in place (they are also good for isolation because these are a shallow fit after all). When it comes to sound, it is amazing for the price but not groundbreaking, highs have very apparent flaws and imperfections, mids are not prominent the way they should be (even if something is V or U shaped) and there is a lack of slam and impact to everything, it just sounds a bit lazy. Sub bass is a huge huge plus and they are clean overall, sound is presented in a good way in terms of soundstage and imaging akin to much more expensive IEMs. Obviously I am using some very high standards for something that is 20$, but they demand it, they are that good. I am curious, why is it this difficult to get that impact and good mids in IEM form factor when something like Vido earbuds do it so well for 4$? I don't think it's only the form factor, maybe KZ is just focusing on slightly wrong things - I am not bashing them, KZ is our hero regardless!



I actually think the foams are a big culprit with your observations regarding the mids. I am using Symbios W size small on mine, and do not have that complaint about them. Granted, there are some anomalies as you noticed in the high end, but nothing too annoying, at least for me. Granted, I am 63 years old and have spent too many years around power tools and sitting in the brass section of symphony orchestras!


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## NeonHD (Aug 16, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> I have both the ZS3/ZS5 and the ZST version. For $7 it's a good deal.
> 
> I think the sound of the cable is the best on the ZST by far - maybe it's the impedance, but I don't like how it sounds on the ZS3 or ZS5. On the ZST, the difference between hard wired and bluetooth is barely noticeable.
> 
> ...



Cool thanks for the info, and if I do get a ZS3/ZS5/ZST I'll definitely try out that antenna mod.

P.S. Would the KZ bluetooth cable work on other detachable IEMs with the same port?


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## vladstef (Aug 16, 2017)

CYoung234 said:


> I actually think the foams are a big culprit with your observations regarding the mids. I am using Symbios W size small on mine, and do not have that complaint about them. Granted, there are some anomalies as you noticed in the high end, but nothing too annoying, at least for me. Granted, I am 63 years old and have spent too many years around power tools and sitting in the brass section of symphony orchestras!


I have tried all kinds of tips and Comply is just the best for me. I don't have the vocabulary to exactly explain what my gripe with ZS5 is, but it's the same one I have with 90% of IEMs. I know that they are technically very capable for the price, but music isn't supposed to sound like this. Directly comparing them to Auglamour RX-1 (price is similar, also consider proper positioning with RX1 might be quite hard to achieve due to earbud form factor), violins and vocals on ZS5 lack the body, just sound tiny and uninspiring, but even this is obviously better than oh so many budget IEMs. High end is louder on ZS5, but I still prefer making it slightly recessed if you can't get it to sound right, and then bass is perhaps too strong given how imperfect everything else is. Resolution is not even on the table, RX-1 just wipes the floor with ZS5. I am not here to bash KZ, I just want to point out that there is competition in earbud form factor when budget headphones are in question. I use ZS5 for going out and about, I like them enough to regularly use them, but acknowledging the flaws is the healthy thing to do. Saying something negative about a beloved headphone can get you in trouble on head-fi, keep in mind that this is just an unpopular opinion. I am surprised a bit that people are not really talking about ZS5's flaws, maybe it's because they do so many things better than competition.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Cool thanks for the info, and if I do get a ZS3/ZS5/ZST I'll definitely try out that antenna mod.
> 
> P.S. Would the KZ bluetooth cable work on other detachable IEMs with the same port?



No problem.

Yeah, it's just a generic bluetooth cable otherwise. So technically, anything that uses the same size 2-pin connector (ie 0.75mm vs 0.78mm) would work.

Keep in mind the ends are molded specific to the ZS3/ZST/ZS5, so if you try it on something different part of the plastic on the end might need sanding down or tweaking a bit to fit.


----------



## ricemanhk

vladstef said:


> I have tried all kinds of tips and Comply is just the best for me. I don't have the vocabulary to exactly explain what my gripe with ZS5 is, but it's the same one I have with 90% of IEMs. I know that they are technically very capable for the price, but music isn't supposed to sound like this. Directly comparing them to Auglamour RX-1 (price is similar, also consider proper positioning with RX1 might be quite hard to achieve due to earbud form factor), violins and vocals on ZS5 lack the body, just sound tiny and uninspiring, but even this is obviously better than oh so many budget IEMs. High end is louder on ZS5, but I still prefer making it slightly recessed if you can't get it to sound right, and then bass is perhaps too strong given how imperfect everything else is. Resolution is not even on the table, RX-1 just wipes the floor with ZS5. I am not here to bash KZ, I just want to point out that there is competition in earbud form factor when budget headphones are in question. I use ZS5 for going out and about, I like them enough to regularly use them, but acknowledging the flaws is the healthy thing to do. Saying something negative about a beloved headphone can get you in trouble on head-fi, keep in mind that this is just an unpopular opinion. I am surprised a bit that people are not really talking about ZS5's flaws, maybe it's because they do so many things better than competition.



I think the issue is that you initially pointed out flaws but do not provide any benchmark for comparison.  So it sounds like you are saying ZS5 has (absolute) poor highs and mids, which they definitely do not for most of us.
And then you mentioned ZS5 is better than "much more expensive IEMs" but then only list other earphones that are in a similar or even cheaper price bracket, so we don't know what "much more expensive IEMs" you are referring to.

For most of us, ZS5 resolution is one of its strongest points.  So it does appear that you may either have a dud or at least a polarity issue.


----------



## CYoung234

vladstef said:


> I have tried all kinds of tips and Comply is just the best for me. I don't have the vocabulary to exactly explain what my gripe with ZS5 is, but it's the same one I have with 90% of IEMs. I know that they are technically very capable for the price, but music isn't supposed to sound like this. Directly comparing them to Auglamour RX-1 (price is similar, also consider proper positioning with RX1 might be quite hard to achieve due to earbud form factor), violins and vocals on ZS5 lack the body, just sound tiny and uninspiring, but even this is obviously better than oh so many budget IEMs. High end is louder on ZS5, but I still prefer making it slightly recessed if you can't get it to sound right, and then bass is perhaps too strong given how imperfect everything else is. Resolution is not even on the table, RX-1 just wipes the floor with ZS5. I am not here to bash KZ, I just want to point out that there is competition in earbud form factor when budget headphones are in question. I use ZS5 for going out and about, I like them enough to regularly use them, but acknowledging the flaws is the healthy thing to do. Saying something negative about a beloved headphone can get you in trouble on head-fi, keep in mind that this is just an unpopular opinion. I am surprised a bit that people are not really talking about ZS5's flaws, maybe it's because they do so many things better than competition.



Can you provide an example of a violin recording that demonstrates this? I do not hear quite the same thing on my pair. For example, the Chicago Symphony recording of Shostakovich Sym. 15 has quite a bit of solo violin, and it has decent body and weight. Not as good as good regular headphones, but not bad. Another recording, more pop, is Lucia Micarelli, which also sounds decent. I will listen more for violin and vocal recordings.


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## B9Scrambler

Sounds to me like @vladstef likes the ZS5 ("So, after about a month with ZS5, I can say that they are indeed very very good."). It just seems he/she is used to the competency of higher quality gear (see the prior IE800 mention). Nothing wrong with pointing out flaws or areas of improvement, of which the ZS5 has many. Doesn't mean it's a bad product. Just being realistic. Saying they have a dud, which doesn't sound correct to me as I agree with much of what was said (just read my review), simply negates conversation and doesn't help those who want to know about those potentially less than ideal aspects.


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## maxxevv

I would suggest comparing apples to apples first. 

I find the ZSE to be heavily influenced by the source.  It was very, very evident to me when I switched between my LG G6 and the laptop headphone jack.
It was awesome on the G6, pretty mucky on the laptop.  Comparatively, on the Xiaomi Piston 3, Urbanfun Hifi and XE800, the difference wasn't anywhere near that evident, mild at most.  

I suspect the ZS5 to behave very similarly as others have pointed out it scales very well with the source / amplifier used. 

Before we can definitively say which is which and what is what in the difference of opinions, could everyone also state their playback source for comparison?  

I think its only a valid direct comparison if there is a listing of the possible variables.


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## ricemanhk (Aug 16, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> Sounds to me like @vladstef likes the ZS5 ("So, after about a month with ZS5, I can say that they are indeed very very good."). It just seems he/she is used to the competency of higher quality gear (see the prior IE800 mention). Nothing wrong with pointing out flaws or areas of improvement, of which the ZS5 has many. Doesn't mean it's a bad product. Just being realistic. Saying they have a dud, which doesn't sound correct to me as I agree with much of what was said (just read my review), simply negates conversation and doesn't help those who want to know about those potentially less than ideal aspects.



In your review you compare it to other earphones, you list out your sources etc. so there's a point of reference.  It's not clear, to me at least, that he is saying the ZS5 flaws are relative to IE800.  His initial post just reads a bit schizophrenic to me I guess - it's difficult to reconcile "very very good" with "highs have very apparent flaws and imperfections, mids are not prominent the way they should be (even if something is V or U shaped) and there is a lack of slam and impact to everything, it just sounds a bit lazy"

I read the latter part and immediately think perhaps a QC issue.  And given the number of QC issues there have been...that's not an unreasonable assumption! LOL


----------



## B9Scrambler

ricemanhk said:


> In your review you compare it to other earphones, you list out your sources etc. so there's a point of reference.  It's not clear, to me at least, that he is saying the ZS5 flaws are relative to IE800.  His initial post just reads a bit schizophrenic to me I guess - it's difficult to reconcile "very very good" with "highs have very apparent flaws and imperfections, mids are not prominent the way they should be (even if something is V or U shaped) and there is a lack of slam and impact to everything, it just sounds a bit lazy"
> 
> I read the latter part and immediately think perhaps a QC issue.  And given the number of QC issues there have been...that's not an unreasonable assumption! LOL



I get that but he wasn't writing a review, just some impressions. While undoubtedly helpful, someone shouldn't have to list everything in the chain that led to those thoughts, unless they're going into greater depth; i.e. writing a review. Not everyone is capable of putting the finer details into words either, and vladstef noted the vocab isn't there. Fair enough. Describing audio is a hugely subjective experience and we all hear things differently. I was just surprised at the amount of criticism his comments were getting, especially given the overall end result was a positive one.


----------



## ricemanhk

B9Scrambler said:


> I get that but he wasn't writing a review, just some impressions. While undoubtedly helpful, someone shouldn't have to list everything in the chain that led to those thoughts, unless they're going into greater depth; i.e. writing a review. Not everyone is capable of putting the finer details into words either, and vladstef noted the vocab isn't there. Fair enough. Describing audio is a hugely subjective experience and we all hear things differently. I was just surprised at the amount of criticism his comments were getting, especially given the overall end result was a positive one.



You read it as positive, I read it as negative hah!  So not only is describing audio highly subjective, even reading posts is quite subjective lol
It was a fairly typical "sandwich criticism" structure: saying something nice, then give the real criticism, and end it on something nice again.  This is so often used in corporate environments that I automatically tuned out the nice "crust" parts without even thinking about it...

Anyway no worries, I think we all agree any earphone will always have areas that can improve on.  It would just be more helpful to provide a bit more specifics when discussing these, rather than use vague/blanket statement terms.


----------



## khighly (Aug 16, 2017)

$19 on gearbest, best IEM's you're ever going to buy for that price. Isolation is poor at best, which is my only real complaint.

Still my daily IEM. Beats out all of KZ's range that I own, beats out Tennmak's line as well. Everything is well controlled. Soundstage is large. It's fairly balanced. Everything I play even with a wide variety of genre's sounds really good. These definitely will make you aware of poor mastering though. Totally song dependent and will put things how they were supposed to sound. They really require 1+ week in your ears for your brain to adjust (proper 'burn-in'). What more could I ask for, for $19?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 16, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> Yes, its a very engaging listen for energetic pieces!
> 
> As I mentioned, it gave me the best rendition of U2's 'Where the Streets Have No Name" in years! The last time it sounded so good was on a friend's $5k hi-fi setup.
> 
> ...


Josua Tree! One of the best!

I think the ZS5 does well with dance tracks because the quality of the bass fit really well the electronic music in providing high energy.

You can feel it on these tracks.




I think the non-youtube tracks sound better.  Youtube tracks don't sound as energetic as the music files on foobar.


----------



## maxxevv (Aug 17, 2017)

> Can you provide an example of a violin recording that demonstrates this? I do not hear quite the same thing on my pair. For example, the Chicago Symphony recording of Shostakovich Sym. 15 has quite a bit of solo violin, and it has decent body and weight. Not as good as good regular headphones, but not bad. Another recording, more pop, is Lucia Micarelli, which also sounds decent. I will listen more for violin and vocal recordings.



If you like to try Violin with a lot of tonality and "body",  try any of the DDD recordings by David Ostrakh. (his early ones were mostly mono but still very good !)

Or if you want something from more contemporary violinists, try Julia Fischer, Hilary Hahn and Itzhak Perlman.  

These are the few whom I generally enjoy their violin concertos.


----------



## SilverEars

I like the Paganini pieces by Hilary Hahn(I think a lot of people are familiar with her, probably like Yo yo Ma).  

I thought this piece was really skillful(at least in appearance, I lack any classical knowledge).



As for bass, man is this guy's bass amazing(sounds very good)!


----------



## maxxevv

I like Hahn's Mendelssohn rendition.  Her Paganini(s) .. haven't heard the disc recordings, so cannot really judge. 

As for the guy, ehh... its all about what you hear, not what you see.  

Assuming like for like audio reproduction quality, close your eyes and listen to Hilary Hahn play.  ( its starts only at about 4:00)  And compare. 




They are being played at different tempos at different segments. 
Hilary Hahn plays her violin looking like an emotionless robot doll but listen for the nuance, tonality and emotive tension she brings out with the same piece. 

And  she plays in my opinion some of my favourite interpretations of Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn. Compare that to Joshua Bell which is plenty of drama, but I don't quite enjoy the music though. 

If you enjoy the cello, you owe it to yourself to have a good listen of Jacqueline du Pre.  Especially her Dvorak.


----------



## Griffith

NeonHD said:


> Has anyone here tried the KZ Bluetooth upgrade cable for the ZST/ZS3/ZS5? If so, can you give your opinions on it? Any connectivity or latency issues? And what about battery life?



I have mine on order. As soon as they arrive I'll try to remember to make a post here. Although the MMCX bluetooth module I got for my Tennmak Pro does the job and they sound great with it, I was quite disappointed with the connectivity and just general design of it. The cord is far too long and I think a grain of hair is enough to break connection in some circumstances but man the sound quality is unmatched by any other bluetooth earphone I've ever used and I've used some of the best regarded bluetooth earphones (like the Sony SBH800 and the BLU-100)


----------



## Mellowship

Is there anyone here who keeps returning to the ATE after listening to several other IEMs and still think they're special? 
I think it has something to do with the timbre, the way human voices sound so natural. I wouldn't talk about the amount, quantity, quality of mids, highs or lows or the bass... Every time I put the ATEs on, I always get surprised with its musicality.  Of course others like the ZST or ZS5 are superior in the way the different technical aspects of music are presented, but the ATEs just keep sounding more "natural"...


----------



## vladstef (Aug 17, 2017)

@CYoung234 , @ricemanhk
First of all, my pair is fine, my silver cable has polarity issue, but regular doesn't - this wasn't hard to detect and everyone with some knowledge of the matter can do it 100% of the time. I knew, just from spending time on this forum, that my comments would have a strong reaction, that is the main reason why I went back and forth with pros on cons of ZS5, otherwise, just saying the bad stuff would probably get me killed here. I didn't directly compare them to IE800 as one just cant do that, just said that they were closer in terms of sound quality to it than a 5 year old 100$ benchmark IEM. This is where the progress happened. Given how the market of Chi-fi is extremely competitive in the budget segment, you need to look at ZS5 from a perspective, not just say that it's the best there is and put a full stop. Imho, this means that people need to be judgmental and point out the flaws, this is how things moved forward in the first place. I haven't heard a better IEM for 20$ and I don't think it exists currently, but it doesn't even come close to what good earbuds do at this price in terms of overall sound they put out. If earbuds can have a coherent proper reproduction of the music, and if we are talking about RX-1, amazing build quality as well, I see no reason why IEMs can't do at least similar for the same price. To repeat myself, KZ is not focused on the substance but the added sprinkles, and this is probably why I end up saying that it isn't perfect.
I heard the biggest difference when listening to Austin Wintory - Delphinus Delphis (from ABZU soundtrack). On its own, ZS5 doesn't do terrible, but if you begin to compare them, everything kinda becomes meh. Borislav Slavov - Times Sqaure - Evacuation (Crysis 2 soundstrac) also comes to mind.


----------



## CYoung234

vladstef said:


> @CYoung234 , @ricemanhk
> First of all, my pair is fine, my silver cable has polarity issue, but regular doesn't - this wasn't hard to detect and everyone with some knowledge of the matter can do it 100% of the time. I knew, just from spending time on this forum, that my comments would have a strong reaction, that is the main reason why I went back and forth with pros on cons of ZS5, otherwise, just saying the bad stuff would probably get me killed here. I didn't directly compare them to IE800 as one just cant do that, just said that they were closer in terms of sound quality to it than a 5 year old 100$ benchmark IEM. This is where the progress happened. Given how the market of Chi-fi is extremely competitive in the budget segment, you need to look at ZS5 from a perspective, not just say that it's the best there is and put a full stop. Imho, this means that people need to be judgmental and point out the flaws, this is how things moved forward in the first place. I haven't heard a better IEM for 20$ and I don't think it exists currently, but it doesn't even come close to what good earbuds do at this price in terms of overall sound they put out. If earbuds can have a coherent proper reproduction of the music, and if we are talking about RX-1, amazing build quality as well, I see no reason why IEMs can't do at least similar for the same price. To repeat myself, KZ is not focused on the substance but the added sprinkles, and this is probably why I end up saying that it isn't perfect.
> I heard the biggest difference when listening to Austin Wintory - Delphinus Delphis (from ABZU soundtrack). On its own, ZS5 doesn't do terrible, but if you begin to compare them, everything kinda becomes meh. Borislav Slavov - Times Sqaure - Evacuation (Crysis 2 soundstrac) also comes to mind.



First, @vladstef, I was not trying to provide a strong reaction to your post, as I am not trying to be a KZ fanboy or anything like that. I was just curious as to your comments, as I am not hearing quite the same thing. I was merely suggesting that your choice of foam tips may be affecting the midrange and high end on your ZS5's. I purposely use foams on my **** 6in1 XBA's to tame the high end,which is very strong on my pair at least. 

You got me curious to try the RX-1 because of your taste in music and your comments about it. One of my favorite things about my AKG K501's is their ability to reproduce midrange well. I tuned my Fostexes when I was modding them to sound as much like the AKGs in the midrange as I could get them, and I think it worked, as I tend to grab them more often.


----------



## SilverEars

vladstef said:


> @CYoung234 , @ricemanhk
> First of all, my pair is fine, my silver cable has polarity issue, but regular doesn't - this wasn't hard to detect and everyone with some knowledge of the matter can do it 100% of the time. I knew, just from spending time on this forum, that my comments would have a strong reaction, that is the main reason why I went back and forth with pros on cons of ZS5, otherwise, just saying the bad stuff would probably get me killed here. I didn't directly compare them to IE800 as one just cant do that, just said that they were closer in terms of sound quality to it than a 5 year old 100$ benchmark IEM. This is where the progress happened. Given how the market of Chi-fi is extremely competitive in the budget segment, you need to look at ZS5 from a perspective, not just say that it's the best there is and put a full stop. Imho, this means that people need to be judgmental and point out the flaws, this is how things moved forward in the first place. I haven't heard a better IEM for 20$ and I don't think it exists currently, but it doesn't even come close to what good earbuds do at this price in terms of overall sound they put out. If earbuds can have a coherent proper reproduction of the music, and if we are talking about RX-1, amazing build quality as well, I see no reason why IEMs can't do at least similar for the same price. To repeat myself, KZ is not focused on the substance but the added sprinkles, and this is probably why I end up saying that it isn't perfect.
> I heard the biggest difference when listening to Austin Wintory - Delphinus Delphis (from ABZU soundtrack). On its own, ZS5 doesn't do terrible, but if you begin to compare them, everything kinda becomes meh. Borislav Slavov - Times Sqaure - Evacuation (Crysis 2 soundstrac) also comes to mind.



recommend me the earbuds that do better in the price range, i'll look into it.  thanks


----------



## CYoung234

SilverEars said:


> recommend me the earbuds that do better in the price range, i'll look into it.  thanks



I think he already did - the Auglamour RX-1 $23.00 at Penon Audio...


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm thoroughly enjoying OurArt Ti7 earbuds


----------



## vladstef

I think there is one more thing that is worth mentioning about all of this, with instrumental music I generally like to listen louder than most people do, but nothing too insane. When I tried to compare ZS5 and RX-1 again, difference is somewhat smaller with moderate sound level, but it is still there, just not as much as I made it out to be (it certainly is a big difference if you push it a bit, perhaps the BA drivers on ZS5 have some limitations, I am almost certain that violins sounding kinda thin is exactly because 1 or both BAs get more than they can handle). So, here is the case with this weird comparison, ZS5 is technically better extended and more detailed, but RX-1 just produces music that is more correct with fantastic resolution (it has flaws, mainly due to earbud form factor limiting extension in both directions, but it's fantastic exactly where ZS5 isn't and it shows). Also, considering this is not earbud thread and people might be uninformed, everyone's first earbud should be Vido from NiceHCK. It's the best 4$ anyone can spend and it's 95% of the way towards Auglamour, they do similar things for the mid range and yes, this 4$ earbud does mid range quite a bit better than ZS5.


----------



## B9Scrambler

HungryPanda said:


> I'm thoroughly enjoying OurArt Ti7 earbuds



Same here. My review will be up today actually


----------



## Sylmar (Aug 17, 2017)

I found out that the cappucino .78 two pins cable from Venture Electronics fits the ZS5. The mould is not exact but when connecting them there is a tight fit. I just need to find out how the connection will remain over time as it's a bit of a try. Cable is a real looker, sound is great and most importantly it's more comfortable compared to KZ's own cable as it is way more flexible. 

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/VE-B...32822038909.html?spm=2114.13010708.0.0.iINhHF


----------



## Saoshyant

Shame, a couple days ago the RX-1 on Amazon was as low as $14.


----------



## CYoung234 (Aug 17, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I think there is one more thing that is worth mentioning about all of this, with instrumental music I generally like to listen louder than most people do, but nothing too insane. When I tried to compare ZS5 and RX-1 again, difference is somewhat smaller with moderate sound level, but it is still there, just not as much as I made it out to be (it certainly is a big difference if you push it a bit, perhaps the BA drivers on ZS5 have some limitations, I am almost certain that violins sounding kinda thin is exactly because 1 or both BAs get more than they can handle). So, here is the case with this weird comparison, ZS5 is technically better extended and more detailed, but RX-1 just produces music that is more correct with fantastic resolution (it has flaws, mainly due to earbud form factor limiting extension in both directions, but it's fantastic exactly where ZS5 isn't and it shows). Also, considering this is not earbud thread and people might be uninformed, everyone's first earbud should be Vido from NiceHCK. It's the best 4$ anyone can spend and it's 95% of the way towards Auglamour, they do similar things for the mid range and yes, this 4$ earbud does mid range quite a bit better than ZS5.



I just listened to the Hilary Hahn Sibelius VC recording with the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Ese-Pekka Salonen. I have played this concerto five or so times in the past, so I am pretty familiar with it. I am wondering if your source might have something to do with your observations, as I am pretty sure the ZS5s will be harder to drive.

On my setup, I can drive it to pretty close to live concert levels, and the violin sounds relatively good, decent imaging, etc. Certainly listenable. So, just a thought. I A/B'd this with my Fostexes, and while the Fostexes have a bigger, deeper soundstage and are generally more realistic sounding, with more space and air, these ZS5s do pretty well with it.


----------



## SilverEars

ZS5 just bested the Dunu Titan 1 and 3!


----------



## jant71

vladstef said:


> I think there is one more thing that is worth mentioning about all of this, with instrumental music I generally like to listen louder than most people do, but nothing too insane. When I tried to compare ZS5 and RX-1 again, difference is somewhat smaller with moderate sound level, but it is still there, just not as much as I made it out to be (it certainly is a big difference if you push it a bit, perhaps the BA drivers on ZS5 have some limitations, I am almost certain that violins sounding kinda thin is exactly because 1 or both BAs get more than they can handle). So, here is the case with this weird comparison, ZS5 is technically better extended and more detailed, but RX-1 just produces music that is more correct with fantastic resolution (it has flaws, mainly due to earbud form factor limiting extension in both directions, but it's fantastic exactly where ZS5 isn't and it shows). Also, considering this is not earbud thread and people might be uninformed, everyone's first earbud should be Vido from NiceHCK. It's the best 4$ anyone can spend and it's 95% of the way towards Auglamour, they do similar things for the mid range and yes, this 4$ earbud does mid range quite a bit better than ZS5.



I have had RX-1 before and Vido currently. Philips SHE4205 also and don't really listen to Vido anymore. Midrange is an area that is quite better than Vido(and perhaps all my stuff except CKR90) though bass and treble are also better. Cost me $16 more than the Vido but well worth it.


----------



## maxxevv

SilverEars said:


> ZS5 just bested the Dunu Titan 1 and 3!



That's interesting, where did that come from ? 

The ZS5 has definitely intrigued me but I have been really hesitant as I never liked the feel of over the ear cables.


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> ZS5 just bested the Dunu Titan 1 and 3!


Are you sh1tting me LOL


----------



## SilverEars

maxxevv said:


> That's interesting, where did that come from ?
> 
> The ZS5 has definitely intrigued me but I have been really hesitant as I never liked the feel of over the ear cables.


Well, my initial impressions were.  I think the tips that they come with arn't as good of a fit as the stock ZS5(fits me perfectly, and I think the bore size is right).  With the ZS5 tips, the sound becomes more neutral and clearer(my how much tips can make a difference!).  I will have to listen more to get a better comparison.

The stock cable for the ZS5 causes cable movement noise, and it's not a good cable for reducing the noise(even when hooked over the ear, I think it's due to the cable weight, it's large enough for the cable to transfer vibration noise when swinging even when wearing over the ear).  They need to produce thinner cables.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

What makes ZS5 differentiate from others(I like so much) is that the ranges are separated. It makes for better coherency in the more congested passages.  This is what I've been noticing with one driver dynamics(when the sounds get congested, coherency reduces).  I think the mix of dynamic and BA drivers and splitting the ranges creates the coherency and separation.  I think this is a purpose of of splitting the ranges with cross-overs(but, this can be done badly as well).

When the sound separated like this, the mids becoming more distinct, and I hear better.

Pardon me, this probably my first time owning a hybrid iems.  Long ago I've heard the 1plus2 and that was the only time(noticed how much iems can have potential with hybrids).


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

Titan 3 is better than 1.  Titan 1 less refined with prominent treble that doesn't blend too well with the rest of the spectrum(too pronounced).  People say it's resolving, but there are resolving without pronounced treble, and it's more of a pronounced treble than more resolving.  Titan 3 being more balanced, does noticeably sound better as they tamed the pronounced treble on the 1.  Titan 3 finicky to fit.  ZS5 is so different as it's not finicky and fits right without fine adjustments like the Titan 3.  Even with the slight mis-fit, the Titan 3 can sound different(I get some sound resonance as well).  Also, the bore size of the tips doesn't seem to be optimized for best sound, as the stock bore sizing causes a bit of constricted sound compared to the wider bore stock ZS5 tips.  I also tried the ZS5 tips on the E3000 as the E3000 tips have narrower bore.  The wider bore reduced the clarity and created congestion to the sound.  So, ZS5 tips are not universally good for all. I tink generally the iem designer should have tried the different bore sizes in it's tuning, and therefore the stock bore size should be ideal, but as the Titan 3 exemplifies, it's not always the case. I think the KZ did a good job of choosing the tips(thickness, shape, stiffness, bore size).  Also, how much the bore and the tips reach out makes for an easy fit.  I think the last easy fit iem was Shure iems.


----------



## ricemanhk (Aug 18, 2017)

ZSE in the house!  finally...
Out of the box impressions match what others have said.  This is indeed an improvement over the ZS3, but in a different category as the ZS5.  Between the 2, ZS5 has much better resolution and separation, soundstage is also a bit wider but much airy-er.  Highs are definitely more clear on ZS5, while ZSE seems to be relatively warmer and rumble a bit more.  I'll post more later after some run-in time, which I do find helps with DDs.

Comfort-wise ZSE is fantastic.  I think I'll use these in bed, while my ZS5 will remain as my daily/commuting IEMs.  Microphonics is pretty bad on ZSE so better not use them when moving around...

Very happy with these at this price level, and I think I'll get more ZSE later as gifts for friends!  Most people I know prefer wearing earphones down instead of overear...


----------



## snip3r77

ricemanhk said:


> ZSE in the house!  finally...
> Out of the box impressions match what others have said.  This is indeed an improvement over the ZS3, but in a different category as the ZS5.  Between the 2, ZS5 has much better resolution and separation, soundstage is also a bit wider but much airy-er.  Highs are definitely more clear on ZS5, while ZSE seems to be relatively warmer and rumble a bit more.  I'll post more later after some run-in time, which I do find helps with DDs.
> 
> Comfort-wise ZSE is fantastic.  I think I'll use these in bed, while my ZS5 will remain as my daily/commuting IEMs.  Microphonics is pretty bad on ZSE so better not use them when moving around...
> ...


1


ricemanhk said:


> ZSE in the house!  finally...
> Out of the box impressions match what others have said.  This is indeed an improvement over the ZS3, but in a different category as the ZS5.  Between the 2, ZS5 has much better resolution and separation, soundstage is also a bit wider but much airy-er.  Highs are definitely more clear on ZS5, while ZSE seems to be relatively warmer and rumble a bit more.  I'll post more later after some run-in time, which I do find helps with DDs.
> 
> Comfort-wise ZSE is fantastic.  I think I'll use these in bed, while my ZS5 will remain as my daily/commuting IEMs.  Microphonics is pretty bad on ZSE so better not use them when moving around...
> ...





jant71 said:


> I have had RX-1 before and Vido currently. Philips SHE4205 also and don't really listen to Vido anymore. Midrange is an area that is quite better than Vido(and perhaps all my stuff except CKR90) though bass and treble are also better. Cost me $16 more than the Vido but well worth it.


you mean rx1 is good ?


----------



## CYoung234

CYoung234 said:


> I just listened to the Hilary Hahn Sibelius VC recording with the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Ese-Pekka Salonen. I have played this concerto five or so times in the past, so I am pretty familiar with it. I am wondering if your source might have something to do with your observations, as I am pretty sure the ZS5s will be harder to drive.
> 
> On my setup, I can drive it to pretty close to live concert levels, and the violin sounds relatively good, decent imaging, etc. Certainly listenable. So, just a thought. I A/B'd this with my Fostexes, and while the Fostexes have a bigger, deeper soundstage and are generally more realistic sounding, with more space and air, these ZS5s do pretty well with it.



I spent more time with this recording, listening both to my ZS5's and my **** 6in1 XBAs. At least for this recording, in comparison they are close, but the ZS5's almost sound a bit surreal in comparison. The violin has a little more body and more bite with the Senfers, where it is a bit more ethereal and more like a hologram with the ZS5's, if that makes any sense! I like them both, but the Senfers sound a little more like the real thing to me. I am anxious to get my Urbanfuns and EMI CI880's for comparison!


----------



## skeej (Aug 18, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> Has anyone here tried the KZ Bluetooth upgrade cable for the ZST/ZS3/ZS5? If so, can you give your opinions on it? Any connectivity or latency issues? And what about battery life?



I haven't tested the latency or the battery life (I don't use the ZS5's for extended periods of time, so can go for days without recharging them), but contrary to what I stated earlier about no noticeable distortion, there actually is terrible distortion at the highest volume levels. It seems to occur mostly when there's a lot of bass volume. The bass becomes very flabby and the mids and highs get distorted too. I'm not sure what it is. It sounds too "warm" to describe it as normal clipping. Maybe it's an impedance issue which impacts the DDs mostly? It only happens when you turn up the volume to near the hearing damage treshold.

At more respectable volumes, especially with not-so-bassy msuic, it sounds great.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 18, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Also, considering this is not earbud thread and people might be uninformed, everyone's first earbud should be Vido from NiceHCK. It's the best 4$ anyone can spend and it's 95% of the way towards Auglamour, they do similar things for the mid range and yes, this 4$ earbud does mid range quite a bit better than ZS5.


You paid only $4 so you get only the mids with the Vido where as you get everything else with the ZS5 


SilverEars said:


> ZS5 just bested the Dunu Titan 1 and 3!


Yes, my ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips sounds way better than my Titan 1 which I paid a lot more.


----------



## vector84

skeej said:


> I haven't tested the latency or the battery life (I don't use the ZS5's for extended periods of time, so can go for days without recharging them), but contrary to what I stated earlier about no noticeable distortion, there actually is terrible distortion at the highest volume levels. It seems to occur mostly when there's a lot of bass volume. The bass becomes very flabby and the mids and highs get distorted too. I'm not sure what it is. It sounds too "warm" to describe it as normal clipping. Maybe it's an impedance issue which impacts the DDs mostly? It only happens when you turn up the volume to near the hearing damage treshold.
> 
> At more respectable volumes, especially with not-so-bassy msuic, it sounds great.


Sounds like harmonic distortion from an insufficient current situation?

I thought I saw an impedance curve for the ZS5 a while back but I can't find it, so I'll just kinda leave this here for someone else tear apart ... but I believe it has a less than flat impedance curve, so high distortion at lower frequencies due to very low impedance causing wildly high current draws is probably what's going on there right?


I'll go ahead and admit that I get some pretty heavy harmonic distortion at anything above moderate listening volumes on all my current sources. I favor very low volumes though so it doesn't really bother me most of the time.  And all my other nice gear got destroyed a few years back, so I only have stuff from my reject bin left to test against.  So while I can't stand to listen to it, I'm reasonably sure it's an under-current situation for me at least on both my on-board sound card and my tablet.


----------



## loomisjohnson

SilverEars said:


> What makes ZS5 differentiate from others(I like so much) is that the ranges are separated. It makes for better coherency in the more congested passages.  This is what I've been noticing with one driver dynamics(when the sounds get congested, coherency reduces).  I think the mix of dynamic and BA drivers and splitting the ranges creates the coherency and separation.  I think this is a purpose of of splitting the ranges with cross-overs(but, this can be done badly as well).
> 
> When the sound separated like this, the mids becoming more distinct, and I hear better.
> 
> Pardon me, this probably my first time owning a hybrid iems.  Long ago I've heard the 1plus2 and that was the only time(noticed how much iems can have potential with hybrids).


there's a certain inherent logic to what you're saying--having multiple drivers should, in theory, provide for more precise or better-separated reproduction of the different frequencies. in practice, however, this isn't necessarily the case, at least at the budget end of the chifi spectrum--there are a number of single dynamics (the adax being a recent example) which have better imaging/instrument separation than a number of comparably-situated hybrids. further, in terms of "coherence," which i think of as seamlessness from top-to-bottom (or absence of  different driver colorations in different frequency ranges), i tend to believe that well-made single dynamics are usually better, since they don't have to integrate multiple drivers into a whole. the zs5, to my ears, suffers a tiny bit in this regard--i'm conscious of occasionally hearing different drivers as opposed to a unified whole. which isn't a slam on the zs5, which is excellent in many regards.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

Yeah, it's not a comprehenisive investigation(My sampling isn't large).  But, come into this conclusion based comparing with the single dynamic driver iems I've listened to recently.  This was based on purposely listening to congestive passages to hear how it performs.

You are right, cross-overs arn't perfect, and can have enough effect on the cross-over points of the spectrum.

Any single dynamic driver iem that does better and well for separation?


----------



## peskypesky

Remember that the ZS5's can be worn "down" by easily, but carefully,  removing the memory wire.


----------



## vladstef

Francisk said:


> You paid only $4 so you get only the mids with the Vido where as you get everything else with the ZS5


Anyone who has heard Vidos knows how well they handle bass and highs as well. These are not earbuds you'd get 10 years ago with a random mp3 player or something, they have nothing in common... except cables


----------



## Slater

skeej said:


> I haven't tested the latency or the battery life (I don't use the ZS5's for extended periods of time, so can go for days without recharging them), but contrary to what I stated earlier about no noticeable distortion, there actually is terrible distortion at the highest volume levels. It seems to occur mostly when there's a lot of bass volume. The bass becomes very flabby and the mids and highs get distorted too. I'm not sure what it is. It sounds too "warm" to describe it as normal clipping. Maybe it's an impedance issue which impacts the DDs mostly? It only happens when you turn up the volume to near the hearing damage treshold.
> 
> At more respectable volumes, especially with not-so-bassy msuic, it sounds great.



I have only noticed what you are describing when using the bluetooth cable with the ZS5. In fact, the hard wired cable does the same thing.

I do not notice this with the ZST - neither with the stock cable or the bluetooth cable. That's why out of the 3, I only use the ZST with the bluetooth cable.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Sounds like harmonic distortion from an insufficient current situation?
> 
> I thought I saw an impedance curve for the ZS5 a while back but I can't find it, so I'll just kinda leave this here for someone else tear apart ... but I believe it has a less than flat impedance curve, so high distortion at lower frequencies due to very low impedance causing wildly high current draws is probably what's going on there right?
> 
> ...



I completely agree, and also believe this is what's going on with the ZS5. Some sources might have be OK impedance-wise, they may not deliver the appropriate current. This is where an amp helps.

Luckily I don't listen to the ZS5 at ear-damaging levels, but if I do my DAP+amp has no problem driving them where my phone falls flat on it's face.

I suspect the ZSR Pro will behave the same, and possibly be more sensitive (since it was hinted to include additional drivers over the ZS5).


----------



## skeej (Aug 18, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Sounds like harmonic distortion from an insufficient current situation?
> 
> I thought I saw an impedance curve for the ZS5 a while back but I can't find it, so I'll just kinda leave this here for someone else tear apart ... but I believe it has a less than flat impedance curve, so high distortion at lower frequencies due to very low impedance causing wildly high current draws is probably what's going on there right?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, it's probably harmonic distortion then.



slaterlovesspam said:


> I have only noticed what you are describing when using the bluetooth cable with the ZS5. In fact, the hard wired cable does the same thing.
> 
> I do not notice this with the ZST - neither with the stock cable or the bluetooth cable. That's why out of the 3, I only use the ZST with the bluetooth cable.



I don't get the distortion when using a wired connection. I can drive the ZS5 to painful volume levels and still hear no significant distortion. I have mainly used the ZS5 through my Fiio E5. Maybe the higher current and extremely low output impedance helps?

I really hope KZ has an upgraded BT cable in the works. I've become too used to having the convenience of wireless on the go with my K845BT (but it can be equally inconvenient to having to carry around a big pair of headphones like those). It's kinda hard to go back to a wired connection.

On the one hand, this distortion issue protects me against inflicting hearing damage, but on the other hand, sometimes you just need to play things LOUD . I might try running a small BT receiver hooked up to the Fiio hooked up to the ZS5 to have some semi-wireless action without sacrificing SQ.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 18, 2017)

skeej said:


> I don't get the distortion when using a wired connection. I can drive the ZS5 to painful volume levels and still hear no significant distortion. I have mainly used the ZS5 through my Fiio E5. Maybe the higher current and extremely low output impedance helps?


So my understanding of amps is pretty limited but I'll take a stab at this...

First the ZS5 isn't actually rated to get that loud, is it?  Specs claim 10 mW max power, 106 dBSPL. That should mean it's not rated past 116.6 dB right?
(so average volume levels beyond ~87 dB [+30dB peaks] could contain distortion from the ZS5 itself right?)

Then at rated volume levels most on-chip amps like the ones included with KZ's BT module would be fine, but ask for 97 dB average listening volume (and 127 dB peaks?) and you'd be hitting 100 mW peak power drain... more than many sources can supply into 16 Ohms, let alone 9–10 or some such.


This makes me wonder... the Fiio E5 is only rated at 100mW@32Ohms (so < 50@16 ?).

Could this potentially imply that the KZ BT module might need a capacitor replacement rather than a new amp chip to drive the ZS5 to higher volumes without distortion? Or maybe the original version had big enough capacitors and it sucked the batteries dry? I'm now way outside my wheelhouse so I should probably just stop rambling.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

IME, ZS5 is pretty sensitive that it's too much to reach clipping level if that is even possible.  It doesn't take much to drive it.  It's on an avg sensitive level based on the volume I use it at.  Now, the E3000, that's on another level, it takes a bit more juice to drive it to loud enough volume.

Something is peculiar about what you are running into.


----------



## vector84

SilverEars said:


> IME, ZS5 is pretty sensitive that it's too much to reach clipping level if that is even possible.  It doesn't take much to drive it.  It's on an avg sensitive level based on the volume I use it at.  Now, the E3000, that's on another level, it takes a bit more juice to drive it to loud enough volume.
> 
> Something is peculiar about what you are running into.


My understanding is that in general clipping tends to occur when you try to pull a higher voltage than your amp can provide while harmonic distortion tends to result when you try to draw more current than your amp can supply?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

That's true.  It's relate-able to input signal(to the amp) and the amplification being clipped if the supply doesn't provide enough headroom for the swing of the signal.  My point was that the volume level shouldn't get to the point of reaching clipping levels as it doesn't take much to drive them.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> That means the ZS3, ZST, and ZS5.
> 
> Man, if it were me the ZS5 + KZ Bluetooth cable is hard to beat. You can get the ZS5 on sale for $15-$18, and the bluetooth cable as cheap as $7-$9.



Woah, cool. Did not know it was that easy to make them BT. Sounds like a great jogging setup.


----------



## SilverEars

I'm thinking about it as well, the blue-tooth module.  Didn't really consider this until you mentioned it, but with plug-gable cabling, companies can put out blue-tooth modules.  That's pretty handy to swap out wire and wireless for different purposes.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SilverEars said:


> I'm thinking about it as well, the blue-tooth module.  Didn't really consider this until you mentioned it, but with plug-gable cabling, companies can put out blue-tooth modules.  That's pretty handy to swap out wire and wireless for different purposes.



Indeed. When I first came back to head-fi I thought it was crazy to see universals that look like my customs. It's the golden age brother.


----------



## loomisjohnson

SilverEars said:


> Yeah, it's not a comprehenisive investigation(My sampling isn't large).  But, come into this conclusion based comparing with the single dynamic driver iems I've listened to recently.  This was based on purposely listening to congestive passages to hear how it performs.
> 
> You are right, cross-overs arn't perfect, and can have enough effect on the cross-over points of the spectrum.
> 
> Any single dynamic driver iem that does better and well for separation?


the zs5 excels at instrument separation/imaging, but for that matter so do a number of single-driver kzs, including the ed9, edr2 and ed3c--it seems to be kz's strength. among other dds i've heard lately, the adax, memt x5 and ostry kc06 do a good job with instrument placement.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

I received another pair of ZS5 today, and compared with my original, and based on my initial listen, there does seem to be a difference in the mids between them.  The 2nd pair(the one I received most recently), it's mids are not as clear as the first pair.  Perhaps that explains the slight differences in opinions regarding the ZS5.  I will have to compare more to be entirely sure.  If this is the case, I feel like I won the lotto with the first pair with others here.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

How the hell does my first pair seem more dynamic and the 2nd pair seems like higher mids are slightly recessed in comparison?  Also, there are difference in bass quality(punch and quantity) between the two.

My first pair sound clearer due to the mids differences.

My first pair didn't have microphone in the cable, and is the silver version.  My second pair is the blue one with microphone in the cable.


----------



## HungryPanda

Welcome to the wonderful world of KZ


----------



## SilverEars

HungryPanda said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of KZ


You telling me there isn't top QC for $20 iems?


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 18, 2017)

On to the negative(s) of the ZS5.  The resolution, it's not a resolving IEM.  The definition of the sound is not fine, and it's slightly thick.  Different from an iem that is capable of outputting more definition to the sound.  I realized this when I tested out high quality recordings.  The pattern is that for electronic, and modern music, it sounds great, but for higher quality recordings(that is capable of revealing high resolution), it's not as a transparent in sense of resolvability.


----------



## snip3r77

SilverEars said:


> How the hell does my first pair seem more dynamic and the 2nd pair seems like higher mids are slightly recessed in comparison?  Also, there are difference in bass quality(punch and quantity) between the two.
> 
> My first pair sound clearer due to the mids differences.
> 
> My first pair didn't have microphone in the cable, and is the silver version.  My second pair is the blue one with microphone in the cable.


I'm listening my memt x5 today . It's sound is  balanced and easy to drive. Hence it's a very good alternative


----------



## TheWongWrong

How's the isolation on the ZSE and since people are talking about it how's the isolation on the MEMT X5 as well


----------



## snip3r77

TheWongWrong said:


> How's the isolation on the ZSE and since people are talking about it how's the isolation on the MEMT X5 as well


I have both zs5 and memt x5 . X5 is definitely more comfy , you can sleep with it


----------



## Deveraux

Just got my ZS5.

TERRIBLE! Oh god, this hype train is still the same as when I got the ED9! 
Really, What! It sounds sooo sibilant and cheap! Distorts when i increase the bass. No clarity too!

I mean.. whaat? Is this what you were guys praising? Comparing it to 200$ IEMS?

Heck, my Earpods are better. My Panasonic HJE125 (costs around 9$) is better! There's not a single aspect where I see the ZS5 is better. Not a single. 

My silver upgrade cable is on the way. 33$ in water. crap.


----------



## danimoca

I'm not buying even a 20$ IEM if the QC is this bad. Sorry, but I'm not.


----------



## Francisk

Deveraux said:


> Just got my ZS5.
> 
> TERRIBLE! Oh god, this hype train is still the same as when I got the ED9!
> Really, What! It sounds sooo sibilant and cheap! Distorts when i increase the bass. No clarity too!
> ...


Just make sure that your cable is not connected out of phase. Don't worry, you're not alone...I actually had the same impression when I first received my ZS5 because I connected them out of phase...lol...it's a common mistake many has made. While you're at it, don't forget to pair your ZS5 with the Comply T400 ear tips to smooth out the high frequency peaks.


----------



## Deveraux

Francisk said:


> Just make sure that your cable is not connected out of phase. Don't worry, you're not alone...I actually had the same impression when I first received my ZS5 because I connected them out of phase...lol...it's a common mistake many has made. While you're at it, don't forget to pair your ZS5 with the Comply T400 ear tips to smooth out the high frequency peaks.



How do I connect it properly? I connected it as per the instructions on some user's signature.

I think I connected it properly.  :| 

EDIT: Sometimes there's some clipping sound on the left earpiece.


----------



## Vidal

Deveraux said:


> How do I connect it properly? I connected it as per the instructions on some user's signature.
> 
> I think I connected it properly.  :|
> 
> EDIT: Sometimes there's some clipping sound on the left earpiece.



Letters on the cable should face outwards - if they still sound poor try reversing one cable (some reports of ZS5s with incorrect internal wiring) if that doesn't fix it try a different source. iPhone 6S seems to play quite well with the ZS5.


----------



## vladstef

Deveraux said:


> Just got my ZS5.
> 
> TERRIBLE! Oh god, this hype train is still the same as when I got the ED9!
> Really, What! It sounds sooo sibilant and cheap! Distorts when i increase the bass. No clarity too!
> ...


Hey, I am the first person to point to the bad stuff about ZS5, but it really does do very well and can be awesome and amazing with some songs. Something isn't right with yours, polarity issue is common so try to fix that or maybe you have a more pressing defect with your pair.


----------



## Deveraux

Vidal said:


> Letters on the cable should face outwards - if they still sound poor try reversing one cable (some reports of ZS5s with incorrect internal wiring) if that doesn't fix it try a different source. iPhone 6S seems to play quite well with the ZS5.


Yes, letters face outwards.

Will try on my dad's 6s plus tonight. I tried both on S7 edge exynos and MBPr 2015.




vladstef said:


> Hey, I am the first person to point to the bad stuff about ZS5, but it really does do very well and can be awesome and amazing with some songs. Something isn't right with yours, polarity issue is common so try to fix that or maybe you have a more pressing defect with your pair.



Amazing with some songs? Nah. The Sony XB75AP I had was awesome in some songs even though it had the same or slightly worse sibilance.

This this has muffled mids and highs (tbh I don't know how to word it properly). Cheap sibilance at around 4kHz. Sub bass is there, but nothing else.

My Earpods were miles better. The only thing it fails miserably is the muddy sub bass. Everything else sounds amazing on those things! :|

But .. I can't understand, how is this even worthy of so much praise! It isn't comfortable to wear to begin with. No bass, no clarity nothing. 

The sound is extremely similar to the Sony XB75AP. I paid 12.5$ more than this with upgrade cable. Build quality is amazing, sounds similar, much better bass (doesn't distort at high volumes), much much more comfortable, reliability. I don't get in what sense is this more vfm. 

Huh, 9$ Panasonics sound better. 

Not the first time I'm disappointed with KZ. I even feel the ED9 had clearer mids and highs .


----------



## maxxevv

I'm amazed that you can actually get the Sony XB75AP at a price so close to the Zs5. 

Sure you're not referring to the 55AP instead ??


----------



## B9Scrambler

Lmao...this thread is the best.


----------



## VinceHill24

If you've tried reversing cable and checking for polarity issues, you may also check whether the driver is flexed. I have a friend experiencing driver flexing that affects the sound too which makes it sounded muffled. Sometimes could be poor QC that makes the driver flexes easily. Can try blowing through the nozzle as i find it works for my friend's case. Just to share some of my experience.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 19, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> Yes, letters face outwards.
> 
> Will try on my dad's 6s plus tonight. I tried both on S7 edge exynos and MBPr 2015.
> 
> ...


Something must be seriously at issue if the earpods are better as the fit is much better with the ZS5(Although fit isn't the only parameter when comes to performance).  I suggest trying various types of tracks and some tips rolling if you haven't already done so.

I put my money down on QC, but also it could be that the sound sig doesn't work for you.


----------



## ricemanhk

Am I just lucky or perhaps people with issues will more likely post here?  I've had 5 pairs of KZ now (ZST, ZS3, ZS5 and 2 ZSE).  All of them work fine, only the ZS3 stock cable was too loose on one side but the silver cable works.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ricemanhk said:


> Am I just lucky or perhaps people with issues will more likely post here?  I've had 5 pairs of KZ now (ZST, ZS3, ZS5 and 2 ZSE).  All of them work fine, only the ZS3 stock cable was too loose on one side but the silver cable works.



I've had at least 75 pairs of KZ come through since I own and gift so many and the number of QC issues I've had can be counted on one hand.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 19, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> How do I connect it properly? I connected it as per the instructions on some user's signature.
> 
> I think I connected it properly.  :|
> 
> EDIT: Sometimes there's some clipping sound on the left earpiece.


Whoa there... clipping?

We were just talking about how it should be almost impossible to make them clip... pretty sure that means you've got a dud 


Definitely give other sources a shot but... clipping is not an issue that's been talked about in relation to the ZS5 and given their specs would tend to suggest that there's something very broken inside.


----------



## Vidal

I've had loads of KZ and have had 2 issues - ZS3 cable socket that crackled after 6 months of use and a dead earphone with a pair of EDSE, this was down to poor isolation in the jack plug.


----------



## vector84

I would tend to think it's the general lens of internet discussions - problems are magnified because people show up specifically when they are having a problem.

Mind you this isn't necessarily a bad thing - that's also how things get fixed.


----------



## Daniel Gur

Just got my ZSE's I just love them so much, I found them so much better than any of the other (I have also ZST, ZS3, ATR, ED9) the bass was on point, the separation was great, the treble was on point. tested on multiple genres, could only say that on EDM music (except for chill EDM) I would prefer the ZST's, but all the other stuff ZSE is the way to go for me. They also fit my ears great and I think they also look ok. I just cannot believe KZ is making such good earphones and sound for just nothing, here is Israel fast food meal will cost twice more than those earphones.


----------



## peskypesky

Deveraux said:


> Just got my ZS5.
> 
> TERRIBLE! Oh god, this hype train is still the same as when I got the ED9!
> Really, What! It sounds sooo sibilant and cheap! Distorts when i increase the bass. No clarity too!
> ...


Lol.

You probably have them plugged in wrong.


----------



## peskypesky

I love both my KZ ED9s and ZS5s. Incredible sound for the low prices. I'm a fanboy.


----------



## firgoe

I received my zs5 few days ago. When i listened the first time, it was ok. I found it very slightly better than the zst i own. I didnt use it alot yesterday but than today when i listened to it... i found it imbalanced.. the left channel is weaker than the right one. With my cayin i have to dial the balance to L05. Im using the upgrade silver cable. 

Will it improve overtime as it burns in? Or i just toss it away? I tried to unplugged and plugged the connector but no difference.


----------



## Francisk

Deveraux said:


> How do I connect it properly? I connected it as per the instructions on some user's signature.
> 
> I think I connected it properly.  :|
> 
> EDIT: Sometimes there's some clipping sound on the left earpiece.


My first set of ZS5 had an issue of the drivers connected out of phase from the factory and there's an easy fix for it, just reverse the polarity of one side of the cable and all is good. Here's the link to the post where I shared the fix: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1226#post-13557868

Hope this helps.


----------



## firgoe (Aug 19, 2017)

No problem now, I managed to fix it with a very sophisticated technique.  

2 hard taps on the earphone while i used it then the problem went away suddenly.


----------



## Francisk

firgoe said:


> No problem now, I managed to fix it with a very sophisticated technique.
> 
> 2 hard taps on the earphone while i used it then the problem went away suddenly.


That's surely a quick fix


----------



## Deveraux

maxxevv said:


> I'm amazed that you can actually get the Sony XB75AP at a price so close to the Zs5.
> 
> Sure you're not referring to the 55AP instead ??



Yes, XB75AP. 15$ off from the MRP. Got it for <47$. 



VinceHill24 said:


> If you've tried reversing cable and checking for polarity issues, you may also check whether the driver is flexed. I have a friend experiencing driver flexing that affects the sound too which makes it sounded muffled. Sometimes could be poor QC that makes the driver flexes easily. Can try blowing through the nozzle as i find it works for my friend's case. Just to share some of my experience.






SilverEars said:


> Something must be seriously at issue if the earpods are better as the fit is much better with the ZS5(Although fit isn't the only parameter when comes to performance).  I suggest trying various types of tracks and some tips rolling if you haven't already done so.
> 
> I put my money down on QC, but also it could be that the sound sig doesn't work for you.





vector84 said:


> Whoa there... clipping?
> 
> We were just talking about how it should be almost impossible to make them clip... pretty sure that means you've got a dud
> 
> ...





peskypesky said:


> Lol.
> 
> You probably have them plugged in wrong.





Francisk said:


> My first set of ZS5 had an issue of the drivers connected out of phase from the factory and there's an easy fix for it, just reverse the polarity of one side of the cable and all is good. Here's the link to the post where I shared the fix: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1226#post-13557868
> 
> Hope this helps.



Well, the sound isn't terrible by any means like I exaggerated at first. After some hours of listening it definitely has its plus points.  Clipping hasn't occurred after the one or two times it happened.
Like Silverears said, maybe I'm not used to the sound signature yet. But almost on every review of the ZS5, I see thy have listed sibilance as the con. Maybe I'm extra sensitive to sibilance.
If there wasn't that much of sibilance, I'd have loved it. 

Take back my words which said Panasonics sound better. They don't. The resolution and clarity is much better on the ZS5. Like some people say, it's only when you go back to cheap earphones  you can appreciate the sound of the better one. Guess I've to train my ears to better sound.  

But my point is that, they're definitely not worthy of the praise they're getting here. If I've to convince myself so hard that IT IS good..... 

Worth the 20$ price. Not more than that imo. 

My younger sister listened to it for sometime and she said it's the best sound she ever heard. Maybe I'm very picky about my sound :|




firgoe said:


> No problem now, I managed to fix it with a very sophisticated technique.
> 
> 2 hard taps on the earphone while i used it then the problem went away suddenly.



Damn! I was about to write the same problem you had and now after I saw this post, did exactly like you did. It worked! On the left earpiece that is!


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 19, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> My younger sister listened to it for sometime and she said it's the best sound she ever heard.


Haha. I've heard of iems with worse sibilance(AT-CK10 comes to mind, which was fairly bright sounding), and it doesn't seem that prominent of sibilance than avg, but like you say, your ears may be a bit sensitive to that.  I've switched between the Andromeda, and the mids a bit behind or the Andromeda has slightly elevated mids from leveled.  This is what happens when you switch between iems with some signature differences(it seems considerable due to the immediate contrast, and may think it's wrong in some way, but this changes when you keep listening to them).

You are susptable to make quick impressions when you are used to one signature, and then switch to something that has considerable difference, the immediate switch makes impressions stronger than it is when it was listened for a bit.


----------



## Francisk

Deveraux said:


> Yes, XB75AP. 15$ off from the MRP. Got it for <47$.
> Well, the sound isn't terrible by any means like I exaggerated at first. After some hours of listening it definitely has its plus points.  Clipping hasn't occurred after the one or two times it happened.
> Like Silverears said, maybe I'm not used to the sound signature yet. But almost on every review of the ZS5, I see thy have listed sibilance as the con. Maybe I'm extra sensitive to sibilance.
> If there wasn't that much of sibilance, I'd have loved it.
> ...


Have you tried it with the Comply T400 tips yet? If you haven't then try it, you won't be disappointed


----------



## TheWongWrong

One of the strands on my silver cable just frayed at the jack. :/ disappointed. Strain relief is supposed to prevent that but it's just too stiff. Now I know why the copper oxidisation on my cable started near the jack, because of an actual opening to the cable. Started hearing cutting out about a month ago and now it's pretty much unusable. Very unhappy with this because it's supposed to be an upgrade cable but now I'm back with the stock one. Oh well.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Has anyone got the new metal connector ZST cable? Might buy one soon but only concern is how massive the jack looks in pictures


----------



## firgoe

Yes it was the left earpiece ... they need to put this in the manual.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 20, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> Well, the sound isn't terrible by any means like I exaggerated at first. After some hours of listening it definitely has its plus points.  Clipping hasn't occurred after the one or two times it happened.
> Like Silverears said, maybe I'm not used to the sound signature yet. But almost on every review of the ZS5, I see thy have listed sibilance as the con. Maybe I'm extra sensitive to sibilance.
> If there wasn't that much of sibilance, I'd have loved it.
> 
> ...


Kinda sounds like you might be looking for more bass?  Might be worth trying a bit of tape over the back vents in that case.

Tips can change this too, and/or help you get a better fit, which is very needed to get decent bass from the ZS5.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 20, 2017)

It sounds to me that either I'm sensitive to bass or you like good amount of bass vector.  I thought the bass was plenty on the ZS5(this maybe because a set of the tips fits me quite well).  Or there could be QC issues(as couple others banged on the driver and came alive? LOL).  I love the stock tips for the ZS5.  I use for the Andromeda since their provided tips suck(and that includes spin fits).

Wouldn't shutting off the opening close off the dynamic driver from sucking in more air reducing the bass?  Or is that for other purpose?  IE800 had ports in the back to dip resonance peaks.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 20, 2017)

SilverEars said:


> It sounds to me that either I'm sensitive to bass or you like good amount of bass vector.  I thought the bass was plenty on the ZS5(this maybe because one of the tips fits me quite well).  Or there could be QC issues(as couple others banged on the driver and came alive? LOL).  I love the stock tips for the ZS5.  I use for the Andromeda since their provided tips suck(and that includes spin fits).
> 
> Wouldn't shutting off the opening close off the dynamic driver from sucking in more air reducing the bass?


Ohh I don't really like them with that much bass, but it kinda sounds like he might 

The tape mod came up a while back - ChrisHiFi posted some frequency response graphs of it even, around +5dB gain in bass.
(can't comment on the mechanics of why — too far outside my wheelhouse)


And I agree that Starlines are great once broken in (they get much softer).  It took me a while to come to that conclusion though, in their straight out of the box state I found them quite uncomfortably hard.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 20, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Ohh I don't really like them with that much bass, but it kinda sounds like he might
> 
> The tape mod came up a while back - ChrisHiFi posted some frequency response graphs of it even, around +5dB gain in bass.
> (can't comment on the mechanics of why — too far outside my wheelhouse)
> ...


The ZS5 already have elevated bass level. Those who want more bass than that is asking for bass-head level bass


----------



## vector84

Francisk said:


> The ZS5 already have elevated bass. Those who wants more bass than that is asking for bass-head level bass


I think that's exactly what he's asking for?

The XB stands for Xtra Bass after all


----------



## TheWongWrong

Found some pictures of the metal connector cable on Aliexpress. Think I'll get these since my silver cable died on me after 2 months. Hope it'll be sturdier this time around.


----------



## Francisk

TheWongWrong said:


> Found some pictures of the metal connector cable on Aliexpress. Think I'll get these since my silver cable died on me after 2 months. Hope it'll be sturdier this time around.


I just received the same silver cable a week ago and I LOVE it


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Still haven't received my ZS5 from gearbest!

Ordered on June 20th, spoke to George on here and he said to message their support, their support kept saying wait for 60 days.

Messages then again after 60 days and now receiving no response from them.

Has anyone received one of the "on sale" ZS5 from gearbest?


----------



## snip3r77

TheWongWrong said:


> How's the isolation on the ZSE and since people are talking about it how's the isolation on the MEMT X5 as well



You need to use the $2 KZ tips to make it good if your ear canal is too big, else it should be fine.


----------



## Francisk

CardigdanWalk said:


> Still haven't received my ZS5 from gearbest!
> 
> Ordered on June 20th, spoke to George on here and he said to message their support, their support kept saying wait for 60 days.
> 
> ...


I've received mine for close to 3 weeks already. It's best you ask for a refund. That's too long a wait.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Francisk said:


> I just received the same silver cable a week ago and I LOVE it


Is it flexible?


----------



## Francisk (Aug 20, 2017)

TheWongWrong said:


> Is it flexible?


It's flexible enough but the cable is fat and flat. I'm very very impressed with the connectors on both ends. What surprises me the most is the 3.5mm jack which looks and feel very similar to my Fitear TG334 jack which is from Oyaide. At the asking price, the new fat and flat silver cable is a total steal, especially with the supplied jack connectors.

Here's the link to the 3.5mm Oyaide jack: http://m.ebay.com/itm/Oyaide-P-3-5-G-3-5mm-Stereo-Mini-Plug-Straight-Jack-Plug-JAPAN/111742286766?hash=item1a045bfbae:g:HbcAAOxyLN9SkY4j&_trkparms=gclientid=K8wzlWVt0gjNXjVk8uXFL9PKiSbdE7m4_DVy8gVuo3qNM52-lHTj-t7zTPNCcB1V&_trksid=p2489528.m4335.l8656


----------



## TheWongWrong

Francisk said:


> It's flexible enough but the cable is fat and flat. I'm very very impressed with the connectors on both ends. What surprises me the most is the 3.5mm plug which looks and feel very similar to my Fitear TG334 cable plug which is from Oyaide if I've not mistaken. At the asking price, the new fat and flat silver cable is a total steal.



My biggest concern is whether or not the individual strands of the braid will break, as one of the strands on my original silver cable just decided to fray itself to death at the jack


----------



## Francisk

TheWongWrong said:


> My biggest concern is whether or not the individual strands of the braid will break, as one of the strands on my original silver cable just decided to fray itself to death at the jack


I've only used mine for 1 week so I can't confirm what you've experienced...On the other hand, I baby my IEMs and cables so YMMV.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Francisk said:


> I've only used mine for 1 week so I can't confirm what you've experienced...On the other hand, I baby my IEMs and cables so YMMV.


Yeah but I've also only used my silver cable for about two months which is dissapointing


----------



## Francisk

TheWongWrong said:


> Yeah but I've also only used my silver cable for about two months which is dissapointing


I'll let you know in 2 months if the cable is holding up. Until then it's a very nice cable to me.


----------



## TheWongWrong

Francisk said:


> I'll let you know in 2 months if the cable is holding up. Until then it's a very nice cable to me.


Thanks, appreciate it.


----------



## cirodts

WALK TO ALL, I bought the kz zs5 and will i plug you up with AR-M2 will feel good?


----------



## Viber

@slaterlovesspam  (and everybody else)...
I tried to push a different material down ZS3's red nozzle, but i messed up and inserted a piece which is too small. When i tried to get it out i ended up only pushing it deeper. 

Do you have any i idea how i could get it out?


----------



## eaglesgift

Viber said:


> @slaterlovesspam  (and everybody else)...
> I tried to push a different material down ZS3's red nozzle, but i messed up and inserted a piece which is too small. When i tried to get it out i ended up only pushing it deeper.
> 
> Do you have any i idea how i could get it out?


I'm guessing you can't get small tweezers done there but if you can still see it, how about dipping a pinhead in glue (not too much of course) and pushing that gently inside until it makes contact with the material you're trying to retrieve? Or is that just not possible?


----------



## Adide

Try a baby nose cleaning pump to suck it out. If you dont have one at hand that would be because you dont have a baby yet. Thus try make a baby first. Of course, it will suck more than the material out of your unit.


----------



## teesui

TheWongWrong said:


> Found some pictures of the metal connector cable on Aliexpress. Think I'll get these since my silver cable died on me after 2 months. Hope it'll be sturdier this time around.



Curious about that upgrade wire. Is that memory wire for the earhooks or is it just shrink tube?


----------



## peskypesky

CardigdanWalk said:


> Still haven't received my ZS5 from gearbest!
> 
> Ordered on June 20th, spoke to George on here and he said to message their support, their support kept saying wait for 60 days.
> 
> ...


I got mine. Took a bit over a month to receive.


----------



## Viber

eaglesgift said:


> I'm guessing you can't get small tweezers done there but if you can still see it, how about dipping a pinhead in glue (not too much of course) and pushing that gently inside until it makes contact with the material you're trying to retrieve? Or is that just not possible?



Thanks for replaying.
The red tube is super small, only a needle would work.
I think the driver is at the end of the tube so im afraid of poking it and damaging it.

Maybe opening up the shell would help? is it safe and easy to do it?


----------



## Viber

Adide said:


> Try a baby nose cleaning pump to suck it out. If you dont have one at hand that would be because you dont have a baby yet. Thus try make a baby first. Of course, it will suck more than the material out of your unit.



I did what you said and things have gone horribly wrong!!


Spoiler


----------



## eaglesgift

Viber said:


> Thanks for replaying.
> The red tube is super small, only a needle would work.
> I think the driver is at the end of the tube so im afraid of poking it and damaging it.
> 
> Maybe opening up the shell would help? is it safe and easy to do it?


Sorry, I haven't opened up any shells so I really couldn't say.


----------



## vector84

Viber said:


> Thanks for replaying.
> The red tube is super small, only a needle would work.
> I think the driver is at the end of the tube so im afraid of poking it and damaging it.
> 
> Maybe opening up the shell would help? is it safe and easy to do it?


I'm sure there's far more in this thread but I turned this up on a quick search: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1165#post-13479974

Sounds like you need to be relatively careful since you're using heat to soften the glue but don't want to shrink the sound tube.


----------



## ricemanhk

Viber said:


> Thanks for replaying.
> The red tube is super small, only a needle would work.
> I think the driver is at the end of the tube so im afraid of poking it and damaging it.
> 
> Maybe opening up the shell would help? is it safe and easy to do it?



If you can see it, try using 2 needles like a tweezer?


----------



## faceestrella

mrjimmybob said:


> KZ Headphones must be the worst in earphones EVER! (sarcasm). I am sitting at my desk with the following earphones in front of me:
> 
> Kinera H3 ($99)
> Audio Technica IM50 ($80)
> ...



I would love your thoughts on the H3 vs the ZS5s. Mostly cause I want to know if it's either better/different enough to warrant the purchase, because if it's a side grade or a tonal overlap might as well put my money towards something else.


----------



## mono-type

Viber said:


> @slaterlovesspam  (and everybody else)...
> I tried to push a different material down ZS3's red nozzle, but i messed up and inserted a piece which is too small. When i tried to get it out i ended up only pushing it deeper.


Oh, that's too bad.  That's one of my worries when I attempted to re-insert the black foam which was stuck on the adhesive behind the red mesh/screen thingy. I ended up removing the black foam but still retain the red filters, though, as I like the sound better that way.


----------



## cirodts

The kz zs5 which expensive ear to compare it to as sound?


----------



## jaydm99

KZ ZS6? Or just a ZS5 on a metal shell?
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=705757106274680&id=100005211910887


----------



## loomisjohnson

SilverEars said:


> On to the negative(s) of the ZS5.  The resolution, it's not a resolving IEM.  The definition of the sound is not fine, and it's slightly thick.  Different from an iem that is capable of outputting more definition to the sound.  I realized this when I tested out high quality recordings.  The pattern is that for electronic, and modern music, it sounds great, but for higher quality recordings(that is capable of revealing high resolution), it's not as a transparent in sense of resolvability.


it's inevitable that after the initial wave of gushing praise for the latest-and-greatest, the more critical evaluations (as well as outright haters) come forward. personally, having spent more time with the zs5 i remain a fan, if not a cultist. as silverears states, it's not a highly transparent/resolving piece, and i still feel low end isn't seamlessly blended into the rest of the spectrum. however, they pass the most important test, which is how fun they are to listen to--i find myself grabbing them more often than my numerous other, more analytical/audiophile-tuned iems.


----------



## eaglesgift

loomisjohnson said:


> it's inevitable that after the initial wave of gushing praise for the latest-and-greatest, the more critical evaluations (as well as outright haters) come forward. personally, having spent more time with the zs5 i remain a fan, if not a cultist. as silverears states, it's not a highly transparent/resolving piece, and i still feel low end isn't seamlessly blended into the rest of the spectrum. however, they pass the most important test, which is how fun they are to listen to--i find myself grabbing them more often than my numerous other, more analytical/audiophile-tuned iems.


I bought about 10 sets of IEMs (all cheapish Chi-Fi models) when I joined this site a couple of months ago and the ZS5s are the ones I use most often. I'm sure they're far from perfect but I really don't think they sound artificial either.


----------



## cirodts

Non capisco più di 1000 pagine per uno in ear e poi leggo le lamentele? Perché?


----------



## Ynot1

Are the KZ bluetooth balance? So far only Astell Kern has balance line out from a bluetooth device.
Xiomi bluetooth and Qcy bluetooth earphones could have separate amps for each channel, but no mention of balance.
Advance and AAW have balance MFi but no mention of bluetooth balance.


----------



## peskypesky

Jay Magaling said:


> KZ ZS6? Or just a ZS5 on a metal shell?
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=705757106274680&id=100005211910887


Metal-shell ZS5s are supposedly in production. These might be photos of them...and I like!!!!


----------



## jaydm99

peskypesky said:


> Metal-shell ZS5s are supposedly in production. These might be photos of them...and I like!!!!


Though the local seller says the retail price might be arround $50+. If that's the case, this should cost around $40-$45 on AliExpress.


----------



## groucho69

firgoe said:


> No problem now, I managed to fix it with a very sophisticated technique.
> 
> 2 hard taps on the earphone while i used it then the problem went away suddenly.



Universal tool


----------



## mono-type (Aug 21, 2017)

Jay Magaling said:


> KZ ZS6? Or just a ZS5 on a metal shell?
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=705757106274680&id=100005211910887


Thank goodness I haven't bought a ZS5 yet. Looks like I would buy this upcoming model instead when it finally comes out. I'm hoping though that just like ZS5, it would be available in 2 colors (here's hoping that the second color option is red).


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 21, 2017)

mono-type said:


> Thank goodness I haven't bought a ZS5 yet. Looks like I would buy this upcoming model instead when it finally comes out. I'm hoping though that just like ZS5, it would be available in 2 colors (here's hoping that the second color option is red).



Go ahead and order one of the $18 ZS5's from GearBest. You won't regret it. I'm listening to some electro-ambient with mine right now and the sound is stunning.

For those who are interested, I'm listening to Seamoon - Expression of the Moment.


----------



## CYoung234

loomisjohnson said:


> it's inevitable that after the initial wave of gushing praise for the latest-and-greatest, the more critical evaluations (as well as outright haters) come forward. personally, having spent more time with the zs5 i remain a fan, if not a cultist. as silverears states, it's not a highly transparent/resolving piece, and i still feel low end isn't seamlessly blended into the rest of the spectrum. however, they pass the most important test, which is how fun they are to listen to--i find myself grabbing them more often than my numerous other, more analytical/audiophile-tuned iems.



Actually, I think in the end, this is what things boil down to - do you enjoy using the iems to listen to music? If the answer is yes, then they are a success. I find myself doing the same thing with my ZS5's - I keep trying other iems (I just received my EMI CI-880's, and just listened to them), and keep coming back to the ZS5 because it is fun, and ticks enough of the boxes to be very enjoyable to just get wrapped up in the music.

I need to listen a lot more to the EMI's and to the MEMT-X5 that I just got, and to the Urbanfun HiFis which will show up later this week.


----------



## smsmasters (Aug 21, 2017)

So my ZS5, ZST and ATR arrived from GearBest all the way from China in 9 days.

I'm actually impressed with these compared to my expensive IEMs/headphones, especially considering how cheap they are.

The ZST sounds close to the ZS5 however the ATR's treble has less sparkle but sounds pleasantly smooth, certainly the best earbuds I've heard in its price range.

Should I get the ED12 and ZS3 as well?  They're so cheap anyway.

I also noticed the KZ ES3, is this an old model?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

ED12 is the known dud of the KZ bunch iirc.


----------



## 1clearhead

Jay Magaling said:


> KZ ZS6? Or just a ZS5 on a metal shell?
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=705757106274680&id=100005211910887


If this is true? This would finally be a step up in QUALITY! ...Cheers!


----------



## 1clearhead

B9Scrambler said:


> Lmao...this thread is the best.


+1


----------



## Damikiller37 (Aug 21, 2017)

Jay Magaling said:


> KZ ZS6? Or just a ZS5 on a metal shell?
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=705757106274680&id=100005211910887


Well if those are ZS5 successors and come at a decent price...





(Even though I have only just got my ZS5s)

EDIT: Also this cable on AliExpress has ZS6 in the title as well. Looking at the picture the "ZS6" will have the same connectors as ZS5s or at least it looks like it so this might help support the ZS6 name and the legitimacy  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...Dedicated-Cable-0-75mm-2-Pin/32812065485.html


----------



## ryokun

What's some good and cheap portable dac/amp to get for zs5? Using it on my android phone (oneplus 3)


----------



## skeej

ryokun said:


> What's some good and cheap portable dac/amp to get for zs5? Using it on my android phone (oneplus 3)



Not sure if you'd notice a lot considering the biggest bottleneck in terms of changing the sound are the ZS5 by themselves by a mile, but I guess you could potentially benefit from at least getting a <2 Ohms output impedance to reach sufficient damping. Fiio A1 would do. That's just an amp, not a DAC. I really don't see how upgrading from the already sufficient OP3 onboard dac would get you any gains, but if you'd really want to try you could go for a Fiio K1 for instance. It probably won't work on a vanilla OP3 ROM. Verify which custom ROM has support for running the K1. Other options for just amplification are a good version of a CMOY amp (for instance the JDS Labs one) or the Topping NX1, if you can still find it. Not the NX1s considering its output impedance being already too high for 16 Ohm headphones. I'm not sure about the NX1a, can't find output impedance info on that.


----------



## Viber

Just saw there's a new KZ model on gearbest: KZ ES3






Looks like a 2nd gen ZST, dont you think?


----------



## mrjimmybob

faceestrella said:


> I would love your thoughts on the H3 vs the ZS5s. Mostly cause I want to know if it's either better/different enough to warrant the purchase, because if it's a side grade or a tonal overlap might as well put my money towards something else.




I am comparing head to head the Kinera H3 with the TFZ Series 5S, both fed by a FiiO E10K from the computer.


To my ears I find them to be quite opposite in sound signature.


On one side you have the TFZ Series 5S that is rather bass heavy, to an extent that it is sometimes too prominent and eclipses the mids and highs.


On the other side you have the Kinera H3, that is rather bright, so much, that so obtain a decent level of bass I have to push up the volume, so much the highs get uncomfortable to listen to (If you turn down the volume the bass is very recessed). They can be silbant at times too.


Which one is better? None. (surprise!). If you had the bass of the TFZ Series 5S with the highs of the Kinera H3, although maybe very V shaped sound it would be my to go IEM. But both leave me looking for more.


Comfort wise, the Kinera H3 I find to be one of *the most* comfortable IEMS I have ever tried. In this respect, the KZ ZS3 is close.


As a side note, I find the TFZ Series 5S ($82) sound almost exactly like the KZ ZST ($19). I seriously cannot tell them apart.


Obviously this is my experience, my ears. I think I have some hearing impediment, because I can never hear all the differences between headphones so many people speak of (so it must be me).


So I would not recommend to buy one as an upgrade to the other (either way round). I do find the Kinera H3 to have a little more detail (due to the clear mids and highs) but lack of bass make them a no go for me.

If you need any other informatioon, or a more detailed comparison I will try and get back to work in a better way.

Best, Mr. J. Bob.


----------



## Mellowship

ryokun said:


> What's some good and cheap portable dac/amp to get for zs5? Using it on my android phone (oneplus 3)


Topping NX2, with line amp and OTG DAC. For around 30 USD.


----------



## aisalen

I have the same finding with Kinera, highs is piercing to my ears although bass is enough to me. I find the sound V shaped. My problem is that after listening for 2 days, the bass on right side becomes on and off and probably needs replacement. Tried replacing wire using my zs5 cable but still have the same. The problem is I am out of the country working, so it takes time to replace it. Haaiyssst.


----------



## maxxevv

Looking through the Gearbest specifications, sounds like its a single wide-frequency dynamic driver that's been the most recent trend in budget quality earphones.  20-40,000hz.  

I see that in the Urbanfun Beryllium as well as the Adax HD06 , latter being highly rated by Vidal and loomisjohnson.  

I also notice it being offered in a few similarly priced earphones that have just be introduced.  Should make for some interesting listening !


----------



## themindfreak

Viber said:


> Just saw there's a new KZ model on gearbest: KZ ES3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn Im interested, but Im just afraid they might sound exactly like the KZ ZST


----------



## maxxevv

I think it will be a little different from KZ's previous offerings to date.  

I don't recall seeing one with a ultra wide frequency range driver though. Has there been one before???


----------



## VinceHill24

mrjimmybob said:


> I am comparing head to head the Kinera H3 with the TFZ Series 5S, both fed by a FiiO E10K from the computer.
> 
> 
> To my ears I find them to be quite opposite in sound signature.
> ...


I agree with you about the Kinera H3. I got it just a day or 2 back and was having a hard time adjusting to its sound. It's sound signature is not the kind that's appealing to most. It's very bright to the point that it's actually fatiguing to listen to even with just a short listening session. Bass is pretty good in amount and clarity, it does goes deep and have a tight punch when you get a really good seal with it. The midrange on the other hand is very recessed in compared and sounded thin in presentation. The clarity and detail is no doubt what it does best. I find it even more resolving as compared to my TFZ King. 

If it's not because of the overdone treble, everything else is very good. Comfort wise, fit wise, built wise. In fact when i take a look at the inner workings, it's so clean and neatly done and the drivers were separated with sound directed to the nozzle with a sound tube for each. This is an impressive feat that none other Chinese brand i had come across at this price range able to pull that off.

Guess this is the one IEM that i gonna live with EQ on it.


----------



## Viber

themindfreak said:


> Damn Im interested, but Im just afraid they might sound exactly like the KZ ZST



The dynamic driver in the ZST is 8mm, but its 10mm in the ES3. 
If it's not the same driver then I dont think they will sound the same.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 22, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> I think it will be a little different from KZ's previous offerings to date.
> 
> I don't recall seeing one with a ultra wide frequency range driver though. Has there been one before???


The ZS5 in one of the infographics claims "Can still maintain a certain sensitivity response in 45 KHz frequency"
(gearbest now has the ZS5 listed with 7-46kHz)
The ZSE is listed at 20-45 kHz.

The BA (30095) is one of the ones found in the ZS5 (along with a 1205) - Amazon lists it (the 30095) as the "ultra high treble driver" 

(and the ZSE and ZS5 have 10mm DDs in them but that doesn't really mean much)


Kinda seems like it might be the two drivers that some people think dominate the ZS5's output?
(almost like KZ's going - wanna see?!)


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> The ZS5 in one of the infographics claims "Can still maintain a certain sensitivity response in 45 KHz frequency"
> (gearbest now has the ZS5 listed with 7-46kHz)
> The ZSE is listed at 20-45 kHz.
> 
> ...


Who are they marketing these too - bats?


----------



## maxxevv

The ZSE uses a 6.8mm and a 8mm driver in tandem.   Not the same.  

The ES3 is a hybrid. I missed out on the description of the BA unit.


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> Who are they marketing these too - bats?


Well I think in theory (at least for DDs?) that a ridiculously high frequency response range means the driver is working over its well defined mid band through the entire audible frequency range, instead of at the edges of its possible range which can lead to a loss of coherence / detail and potentially introduce distortions (though they'll be sensed more than heard).

Or something like that?

Not sure how much of that applies to BAs though? 



maxxevv said:


> The ZSE uses a 6.8mm and a 8mm driver in tandem.   Not the same.


Oops, I think you're right... Amazon lists it as a 10... my google-fu has failed me.


----------



## loomisjohnson (Aug 22, 2017)

i posted my thoughts on the zse on vidal's website, asian provocative ear. he likes them more than me (mainly because they need an amp to sound their best), though they're still  worthy of the kz moniker


----------



## I2ecreate

Does the stock tips on the KZ ZS5 get softer over time? I have some sony eartips that are super soft after years of use, but the tube hole (not sure of terminology) is quite a bit smaller so I would think it might affect sound.


----------



## CoiL

themindfreak said:


> Damn Im interested, but Im just afraid they might sound exactly like the KZ ZST


I`m interested too. They probably use ZS5 DD and "same" BA as with ZST or one from ZS5. That would be logical move to get some new buyers but still maintain good SQ, without doing any excess development work on new version. Why else they run it out so fast after ZST and ZS5 (which is darn cheap and very very good SQ depending on source and amping).


----------



## CoiL

I2ecreate said:


> Does the stock tips on the KZ ZS5 get softer over time? I have some sony eartips that are super soft after years of use, but the tube hole (not sure of terminology) is quite a bit smaller so I would think it might affect sound.


Actually, older grey version of KZ starline tips  seems stiffer slightly than new black ones that come with ZS5.


----------



## vector84

I2ecreate said:


> Does the stock tips on the KZ ZS5 get softer over time? I have some sony eartips that are super soft after years of use, but the tube hole (not sure of terminology) is quite a bit smaller so I would think it might affect sound.


The black starlines at least will get *much* softer after a few weeks of use.

When I first read everyone saying they used stock tips I was... pretty confused too - really, this rock hard chunk of rubber - sure it sounds nice but really?!
But the ones I've been using are much much softer than the boxed pairs I have still sitting around.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

vector84 said:


> The black starlines at least will get *much* softer after a few weeks of use.
> 
> When I first read everyone saying they used stock tips I was... pretty confused too - really, this rock hard chunk of rubber - sure it sounds nice but really?!
> But the ones I've been using are much much softer than the boxed pairs I have still sitting around.



Agreed!  Starlines first felt like spikes in my ear.  Left em out for a bit and came back to them after about two weeks to find they softened up a bit.  Now they fit quite nicely and are even softer.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Hey guys, so.. If price is the same.. Which is better, Alibaba or Gearbest??


----------



## Vidal

Depends on the Ali seller, some are as ropey as ****, some are excellent.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Vidal said:


> Depends on the Ali seller, some are as ropey as ****, some are excellent.



Thank you. But I just realized Ali doesn't have the Es3. Gearbest it is it seems.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Here is the Gearbest description..


----------



## vladstef

iPhone IEM said:


> Here is the Gearbest description..


Looks like a small ZST upgrade, but it could go either way from there. It looks nice with this deep purple color but it looks BIG...


----------



## Ynot1 (Aug 22, 2017)

vector84 said:


> The ZS5 in one of the infographics claims "Can still maintain a certain sensitivity response in 45 KHz frequency"
> (gearbest now has the ZS5 listed with 7-46kHz)
> The ZSE is listed at 20-45 kHz.
> 
> ...



So ES3 is ZS5 minus 1205. So the guess would be ES will be more V compare to ZS5 which is more or less light V.

I assumed 90095 is in the same family of 30095. But the thing I read about multi-BAs say fewer BA iem requires the BA to do more work over wider freqs. The ZS5 likely will have better separation while ES3 may get better coherence tuning.

I found the Vivo XE800 besting the Urbanfun where soundstage and acoustical instrument placement was important. The Urbanfun had better bass and clarity, but coherence is out of place. So fewer drivers can offer less challege to get coherence right.


----------



## Ynot1

iPhone IEM said:


> Hey guys, so.. If price is the same.. Which is better, Alibaba or Gearbest??



Aliexpress does not contribute to this forum.


----------



## Fox2twenty (Aug 22, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> Aliexpress does not contribute to this forum.



Cool. And they don't have the kz Es3.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> Looks like a small ZST upgrade, but it could go either way from there. It looks nice with this deep purple color but it looks BIG...



That's what I'm thinking.. Zst with slight driver upgrade.


----------



## Viber

If you do buy the ES3 from gearbest:
*
"Coupon: *GBCE ( Enjoy 13% off )"


----------



## Fox2twenty

Viber said:


> If you do buy the ES3 from gearbest:
> *
> "Coupon: *GBCE ( Enjoy 13% off )"


Woah! Awesomeness, thank you very much.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Just waiting for payday now gentlemen..


----------



## snip3r77

iPhone IEM said:


> Just waiting for payday now gentlemen..



No need to wait for pay day . Credit card ftw


----------



## Viber

iPhone IEM said:


> Hey guys, so.. If price is the same.. Which is better, Alibaba or Gearbest??



3 things you need to know:

1. Gearbest gives you points for registering, buying and reviewing from them. These points add up and you can buy stuff with them later. I ended up getting like 30% off on two separate purchases that way.
2. Gearbest lets you buy with Paypal, Ali has their own protection which is unique to them and owned by them.
3.GB once refunded me 50% when my Rock Zircon broke after 5 months. Their costumer service is making an effort.


----------



## HungryPanda

Thanks for the code Viber, gone and done it


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> 3 things you need to know:
> 
> 1. Gearbest gives you points for registering, buying and reviewing from them. These points add up and you can buy stuff with them later. I ended up getting like 30% off on two separate purchases that way.
> 2. Gearbest lets you buy with Paypal, Ali has their own protection which is unique to them and owned by them.
> 3.GB once refunded me 50% when my Rock Zircon broke after 5 months. Their costumer service is making an effort.



Agreed on 1, 2, and 3.

I would also add:

4. Items bought during flash sales (from Gearbest) are almost always cheaper than Aliexpress.
5. Gearbest sponsors/supports HF, and George is very eager to answer questions and help with issues. He has helped me on more than 1 occasion.
6. Gearbest is their own seller - if you have a problem, you are dealing with them directly vs a conglomerate of 3rd party sellers (legitimate and scammers) on Aliexpress.
7. If you do have a problem (such as a defective item), you get multiple choices of how you want it handled. Besides reshipping or refunding, one of the choices is even a Gearbest credit that is greater than the original purchase amount (something like 110-120% if I remember).

I buy plenty of stuff from both sites, but if I have a choice between the 2 I always choose Gearbest 1st, due to the above reasons 1-7.


----------



## Fox2twenty

All good points gentlemen. I will add that I asked a friend about Ali and they said that they had a bad experience.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Oh. And thanks again @Viber.. The code works for sure.


----------



## jaydm99

Anyone here bought their ZS3 Silver Upgrade Cable or any KZ item on ebay? Would be appreciated if someone will recommend a trusted seller. Thanks.


----------



## ricemanhk

Strange, couldn't find ES3 on taobao ANYWHERE, not from my usual shops and not from any shop period.  This could be a warning flag...


----------



## maxxevv

They have not appeared on the KZ Official Store yet.


----------



## ricemanhk

maxxevv said:


> They have not appeared on the KZ Official Store yet.



The KZ tmall store is sometimes slower than resellers in new products e.g. they didn't have the ZS5 until the 2nd batch came in with the single button remote.  But it's surprising that GB and Ali have ES3 before any of the taobao resellers (who are often the same shops selling on Ali)


----------



## SiggyFraud

ricemanhk said:


> The KZ tmall store is sometimes slower than resellers in new products e.g. they didn't have the ZS5 until the 2nd batch came in with the single button remote.  But it's surprising that GB and Ali have ES3 before any of the taobao resellers (who are often the same shops selling on Ali)



I couldn't find them anywhere on Ali. Could you share a link?


----------



## Viber

ricemanhk said:


> Strange, couldn't find ES3 on taobao ANYWHERE, not from my usual shops and not from any shop period.  This could be a warning flag...



Notice it says on GB:
"Dispatch: Ships between Aug 27 - Aug 30"

That means they don't have it in stock yet\ not allowed to ship them out yet.
This must be some sort of pre-sale, i would at least wait until the end of the month before looking for "warning flags".


----------



## ricemanhk

SiggyFraud said:


> I couldn't find them anywhere on Ali. Could you share a link?



I haven't looked on Ali, someone mentioned earlier whether to buy from Ali or GB so I assumed some sellers on Ali have them


----------



## Ynot1 (Aug 23, 2017)

Here is my take on this as the Chinese market for consumer merchandise is incredibly competitive with so many market players.
Maybe KZ has an exclusive deal with GB such that customers can only buy this particular product configuration from one place.
It looks very similar to Proctor and Gamble in the US selling their Tide laundry detergent in different configuration at different stores.
Consumers can't price compare and consumer market players are coordinating in the market to create a comfortable business climate.
I agree with this business practice when it is as competitive as the China market is. Otherwise it smells of anti-competitive behavior
that is bad for consumers and opportunity seekers.


----------



## I2ecreate

vector84 said:


> The black starlines at least will get *much* softer after a few weeks of use.



Sweet, thanks! I used them for most of the day yesterday and they were actually pretty comfortable. Glad to hear they'll get even more softer with use.


----------



## VinceHill24

To clarify on the ES3, it's currently only Gearbest exclusive and it will be available to all other merchants only on October onwards. The power of gearbest lol. So no worries of authenticity, it's a real KZ product so it's safe to go.


----------



## djmakemynight

VinceHill24 said:


> To clarify on the ES3, it's currently only Gearbest exclusive and it will be available to all other merchants only on October onwards. The power of gearbest lol. So no worries of authenticity, it's a real KZ product so it's safe to go.



Would be great if we know where the ES3 sits in the KZ line-up.


----------



## Sylmar

KZ seriously putting the pedal to the metal. I can hardly keep up.


----------



## snip3r77

Sylmar said:


> KZ seriously putting the pedal to the metal. I can hardly keep up.



This statement should be the one for the metal zs6 lol


----------



## Sylmar

snip3r77 said:


> This statement should be the one for the metal zs6 lol



Too soon I know.


----------



## VinceHill24

Sylmar said:


> KZ seriously putting the pedal to the metal. I can hardly keep up.


I seriously can't keep up. Apparently they will have new models coming almost every month towards the end of 2017, including the ZSR.


----------



## mono-type

I am getting hyped on the ZS6 aka the ZS5 with metal shells.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm more hyped about the ZS10's, should be out by Christmas


----------



## vladstef

It's nice to see this amazing progress from KZ, although I can't quite understand the reason for producing 3-4 flagships in a single year. Look at the suggested price for metal ZS5 (ZS6?), it's almost the same as the release price of regular ZS5. Plus there will be a ZSR. Can't wait to have ZSR regress to a standard ZST plastic shells with better sound quality than ZS6. Also, the naming is so bad that it's almost funny: ZS1, ZS2 - some consistency, ZS3 should've had its own name, same goes for ZS5 as they have nothing in common except cables.


----------



## snip3r77

mono-type said:


> I am getting hyped on the ZS6 aka the ZS5 with metal shells.



I hope they re tune it for better mids and also reduce the "bass distortion issue"


----------



## Middle

vladstef said:


> It's nice to see this amazing progress from KZ, although I can't quite understand the reason for producing 3-4 flagships in a single year.



Their prices are low enough to get people to bite. Release the new hotness every two months and people bite again and again before they realize they've spent $100+ on entry level earphones. This is KZ's design.


----------



## bhazard

ES3 ordered


----------



## Fox2twenty

bhazard said:


> ES3 ordered



Awesome.. I get excited for new product impressions.


----------



## Fox2twenty

HungryPanda said:


> I'm more hyped about the ZS10's, should be out by Christmas



Zs10 gonna be fiya


----------



## Sylmar

VinceHill24 said:


> I seriously can't keep up. Apparently they will have new models coming almost every month towards the end of 2017, including the ZSR.


I can't keep up as well. But it keeps interesting to read reviews and impressions from fellow Headfi-ers and follow the Chifi market as a whole. I'm still impressed by the big leap in audio quality KZ was able to make with the ZS5. Never could have predicted it forehand which shows how fast the Chifi market is developing which should benefit us all.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Sylmar said:


> I can't keep up as well. But it keeps interesting to read reviews and impressions from fellow Headfi-ers and follow the Chifi market as a whole. I'm still impressed by the big leap in audio quality KZ was able to make with the ZS5. Never could have predicted it forehand which shows how fast the Chifi market is developing which should benefit us all.



Benefit us all... I like that


----------



## slackerpo

got my ZS5 yesterday, even though i had already tried it before, i did it with an upgrade silver cable. i think i like the retail one better. the silver one made it brighter. im really conflicted with them, against my IT03, they stand their own. and those go for 11 time the price of the ZS5.

the chinese are on to something really big with KZ.

cant wait for the next models too.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slackerpo said:


> got my ZS5 yesterday, even though i had already tried it before, i did it with an upgrade silver cable. i think i like the retail one better. the silver one made it brighter. im really conflicted with them, against my IT03, they stand their own. and those go for 11 time the price of the ZS5.
> 
> the chinese are on to something really big with KZ.
> 
> cant wait for the next models too.



Onto something Indeed.. You are making me get excited about it


----------



## stillWanted

Got myself the highly regarded Superlux HD668B for home-use as I plan to confine the ZS5 to outdoor use, I am far from an audiophile but once again I find it pairs very well with the SMSL Idea, imo the sound signature is quite close to the ZS5 which I like (though the Superlux doesn't go as deep as the ZS5 and mediums are a bit recessed in comparison), overall it is a great headphone and definitely an upgrade over my previous Shure SRH750DJ which I found to have a veiled and congested sound BUT I still find myself liking the ZS5 over the HD668B, there's something addicting with them, am I crazy ?


----------



## Fox2twenty

stillWanted said:


> Got myself the highly regarded Superlux HD668B for home-use as I plan to confine the ZS5 to outdoor use, I am far from an audiophile but once again I find it pairs very well with the SMSL Idea, imo the sound signature is quite close to the ZS5 which I like (though the Superlux doesn't go as deep as the ZS5 and mediums are a bit recessed in comparison), overall it is a great headphone and definitely an upgrade over my previous Shure SRH750DJ which I found to have a veiled and congested sound BUT I still find myself liking the ZS5 over the HD668B, there's something addicting with them, am I crazy ?



Doesn't sound crazy to me


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Agreed on 1, 2, and 3.
> 
> I would also add:
> 
> ...



Ditto


----------



## groucho69

iPhone IEM said:


> All good points gentlemen. I will add that I asked a friend about Ali and they said that they had a bad experience.



And many more have had good experiences, so that is really inconsequential.


----------



## Saoshyant

Middle said:


> Their prices are low enough to get people to bite. Release the new hotness every two months and people bite again and again before they realize they've spent $100+ on entry level earphones. This is KZ's design.



It's happening with the earbud market too.  If I had to guess, I'd probably estimate I have 50+ budget earbuds to see what's promising and what's not.


----------



## Fox2twenty

groucho69 said:


> And many more have had good experiences, so that is really inconsequential.



Well aren't you an arrogant one. 

Obviously, it's consequencial to me and my line of comments.


----------



## groucho69

iPhone IEM said:


> Well aren't you an arrogant one.
> 
> Obviously, it's consequencial to me and my line of comments.



A sample size of one will always be statically irrelevant.


----------



## ricemanhk

groucho69 said:


> A sample size of one will always be statically irrelevant.



Unless you are that sample size of one LOL


----------



## aisalen

slackerpo said:


> got my ZS5 yesterday, even though i had already tried it before, i did it with an upgrade silver cable. i think i like the retail one better. the silver one made it brighter. im really conflicted with them, against my IT03, they stand their own. and those go for 11 time the price of the ZS5.
> 
> the chinese are on to something really big with KZ.
> 
> cant wait for the next models too.



Same with me, using it side by side with my IT03.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I'm more hyped about the ZS10's, should be out by Christmas



ZS10?


----------



## HiFiChris

slaterlovesspam said:


> ZS10?



Knowledge Zenith's 5-BA IEM. Was mentioned/shown here a long time ago. Shells of the prototype that was on the photos also resembled the ZS5's shell design.


----------



## Slater

HiFiChris said:


> Knowledge Zenith's 5-BA IEM. Was mentioned/shown here a long time ago. Shells of the prototype that was on the photos also resembled the ZS5's shell design.



I thought it was called the ZSR Pro - when did it get renamed to ZS10?


----------



## HiFiChris

slaterlovesspam said:


> I thought it was called the ZSR Pro - when did it get renamed to ZS10?



I honestly didn't know what it was called - they release new models so often that it is quite difficult to follow up and remember each IEM's name.


----------



## groucho69

ricemanhk said:


> Unless you are that sample size of one LOL



But that would mean that you already bought it. So sad that you wasted your hard earned money...and apparently have no friends.


----------



## HungryPanda

I was joking with the ZS10 comment, what with the rate KZ are pumping out earphones


----------



## vladstef

HungryPanda said:


> I was joking with the ZS10 comment, what with the rate KZ are pumping out earphones


This is almost possible, I mean, if someone told me that they know that KZ will release up to ZS8 this year, I'd see it as something actually feasible. Of course, they probably won't and will release a few flagships under different 'family' names like ZS6, ZSR, ZSR pro etc.


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> This is almost possible, I mean, if someone told me that they know that KZ will release up to ZS8 this year, I'd see it as something actually feasible. Of course, they probably won't and will release a few flagships under different 'family' names like ZS6, ZSR, ZSR pro etc.


I think it's better than k3 4K pro magaosi lol


----------



## Ynot1

I wonder if the KZ ES3 and the Walnut V3 be a good match. Or maybe ZSE with no BA would be better if walnut remains low on damping factor.


----------



## Podster

stillWanted said:


> Got myself the highly regarded Superlux HD668B for home-use as I plan to confine the ZS5 to outdoor use, I am far from an audiophile but once again I find it pairs very well with the SMSL Idea, imo the sound signature is quite close to the ZS5 which I like (though the Superlux doesn't go as deep as the ZS5 and mediums are a bit recessed in comparison), overall it is a great headphone and definitely an upgrade over my previous Shure SRH750DJ which I found to have a veiled and congested sound BUT I still find myself liking the ZS5 over the HD668B, there's something addicting with them, am I crazy ?



Hmm, crazy no.  KZ yes


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> Hmm, crazy no.  KZ yes



Lol, awesomeness


----------



## Deveraux

I got the silver cable. It only makes the sound brighter a little more on the volume. Microphonics are much better though.




firgoe said:


> No problem now, I managed to fix it with a very sophisticated technique.
> 
> 2 hard taps on the earphone while i used it then the problem went away suddenly.



Apart from the first time it happened to me exactly the same time this person had (lol), it has happened to a few more time (3 to be precise).
The problem goes away after a hard tap.

Should I get a replacement/refund? I feel this isn't how a product should work :/


----------



## vector84

Deveraux said:


> Apart from the first time it happened to me exactly the same time this person had (lol), it has happened to a few more time (3 to be precise).
> The problem goes away after a hard tap.
> 
> Should I get a replacement/refund? I feel this isn't how a product should work :/


Should at least contact the seller imo.

I received a replacement a few days ago for my first pair that came with a severe channel imbalance (on one of the driver pairs).


----------



## Viber (Aug 25, 2017)

.


----------



## Vidal

My KZ ES3 has shipped!


----------



## HungryPanda

I just got notice my kz es3 has shipped also


----------



## loomisjohnson

if anyone in the us wants to swap my kz zse for another kz (or comparable) please pm me.


----------



## snip3r77

Vidal said:


> My KZ ES3 has shipped!


I hope it owns the zx3


----------



## Keller2 (Aug 25, 2017)

Anyone got the new silver cable? It actually looks really good compared to the last one. Looks like a high end product despite being 8 dollars.
Latest KZ ZST /ZST Pro Upgraded Plated Silver Cable 0.75mm 2-Pin 2 PIN Upgrade Repair Silver Plated Braided Cables for ZST 
http://s.aliexpress.com/aURFjqe6 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## africanus

Is anyone aware of more information or reviews about the differences KS-ZST vs KZ-ES3?

Both seem to be hybrid dynamic driver + balanced armature but beyond that there is no much information regarding the tech specs of KS-ES3.


----------



## Viber

africanus said:


> Is anyone aware of more information or reviews about the differences KS-ZST vs KZ-ES3?
> 
> Both seem to be hybrid dynamic driver + balanced armature but beyond that there is no much information regarding the tech specs of KS-ES3.



That and the size of the dynamic driver (8mm vs 10mm).


----------



## Podster

Keller2 said:


> Anyone got the new silver cable? It actually looks really good compared to the last one. Looks like a high end product despite being 8 dollars.
> Latest KZ ZST /ZST Pro Upgraded Plated Silver Cable 0.75mm 2-Pin 2 PIN Upgrade Repair Silver Plated Braided Cables for ZST
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aURFjqe6
> (from AliExpress Android)



Yeppers, got one of those ordered as well as one of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...1.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.264.ctM03p obviously for another for my LZ (and a few more) to my Opus #1


----------



## sghound

not sure if this been shared previously


----------



## groucho69

sghound said:


> not sure if this been shared previously




Not more than 20 or 30 times....and discounted.


----------



## sghound

he's a CHI-FI fan no doubt


----------



## SomeTechNoob

sghound said:


> not sure if this been shared previously




Lmao this has come up soo many times already zzz


----------



## BrunoC (Aug 25, 2017)

And how about this video? ZS5 with all drivers in?



Check this out... Comments?


----------



## vladstef (Aug 26, 2017)

BrunoC said:


> And how about this video? ZS5 with all drivers in?
> 
> 
> 
> Check this out... Comments?



It's been mentioned before that the messy glue looking substance is not just glue but actually something that is there to battle vibrations from the drivers. I do know that about 100 pages back some people said that this was a very good thing and unexpected at this price. It looks ugly, no sight of any sort of elegance with design, especially the vent lines where plastic parts connect, which can be seen on some of the photos in the video. I just think that they are way too small to control the consistency between 2 random pairs of ZS5s (to a degree, this doesn't have amazingly big effect on the sound as every pair does have at least some vents all around). I could bet that this is also a reason why new metal version has these vents replaced by a more traditional ones on the back. But all of this is irrelevant if the sound is good and doesn't vary too much from unit to next, and we have that.
I do have a question though, do we know which driver does which frequencies? We know for sure that the BA in the body is for highs and small BA in the bore is for even higher frequencies, but I remember people talking about the big DD being a mid range(full range?) and the small DD being used for sub bass, which is slightly counter intuitive but completely believable as there are some amazing IEMs with micro drivers which produce very powerful sub bass (Memt X5 for example) - a thumbnail also confirms this, big DD has no hole on the board and small DD has a big one.


----------



## mochill

Zse in da Hous!!!!!! Dark , treble subbed for now, warm mids, bass is full midbass slightly loose.burn in timeB-)


----------



## -sandro-

I just got my First KZ the kz ATR and honestly I don't like the sound signature. For my liking it's too dark and somehow veiled, not that fun to listen to...


----------



## groucho69

-sandro- said:


> I just got my First KZ the kz ATR and honestly I don't like the sound signature. For my liking it's too dark and somehow veiled, not that fun to listen to...



Pick something else.


----------



## Viber

-sandro- said:


> I just got my First KZ the kz ATR and honestly I don't like the sound signature. For my liking it's too dark and somehow veiled, not that fun to listen to...



Yea, i found them kind of boring too, but they are great for watching movies\playing video games due to their exceptional imaging capabilities.

The ZS3 is louder,bassier and more energetic if that's what you're after.


----------



## vector84

vladstef said:


> It's been mentioned before that the messy glue looking substance is not just glue but actually something that is there to battle vibrations from the drivers (I'm almost certain that I am wrong at least to some extent and I will edit this when I get corrected).


Yeah mostly the proposed idea is it tends to act as an acoustic crossover - prevents harmonic noise from poorly isolated BAs and gets the sub-bass DD doing what it's supposed to do - rattle the shell and give you that satisfying thump 



vladstef said:


> I do have a question though, do we know which driver does which frequencies? We know for sure that the BA in the body is for highs and small BA in the bore is for even higher frequencies, but I remember people talking about the big DD being a mid range(full range?) and the small DD being used for sub bass, which is slightly counter intuitive but completely believable as there are some amazing IEMs with micro drivers which produce very powerful sub bass (Memt X5 for example) - a thumbnail also confirms this, big DD has no hole on the board and small DD has a big one.


To really be sure, you'd need to get a commentary from someone that's gone through the process of tearing them all out and testing them - and while there have been a few people commenting on it as a potential side project, I don't think we've seen any actual results yet here at least 

But here's what we can see from what's been posted:


BrunoC said:


> And how about this video? ZS5 with all drivers in?
> 
> 
> 
> Check this out... Comments?



This is quite a bit better quality than most of the ZS5 disassembles I've managed to find.
Sure looks like there's extra molding around the sub-bass DD to further refine what it's doing... (0:38)
From that disassembly you can tell that the 30095 is the buried BA and the 1205 is the one in the nozzle.

Anyhow, here are the old posts you're thinking about for what the drivers do:


minhmap859 said:


> By this picture, I think the ZS5's inside looks rather faithful to what they advertised.
> 
> Well, Idk, but maybe the BA that fell out was was the ultra-treb one that only dog can hear? I don't know Chinese, so if someone can translate what was said below, it would be very appreciated.





ricemanhk said:


> Top left, Bass DD
> Bottom left, High freq BA
> Right, sub-bass DD
> Middle, mid-high BA
> ...


----------



## vector84 (Aug 25, 2017)

And on a completely unrelated note... ZSE just got here.

First impression was less than impressive - sounded very thin and had absolutely no sub-bass *at all*.
(to the point where messing with EQing it had absolutely no effect)

After about 10 minutes of listening... I'm guessing the second set of DDs suddenly kicked in, but whatever happened, it gave me quite a startle as the volume dropped by a good amount but the bass suddenly appeared aplenty and they stopped sounding absurdly thin.


Generally not a huge believer in *massive* changes from burn-in but that was a pretty interesting experience.


Now having a bit of engineering background myself, I'd honestly have a bit of a hard time believing that sort experience after hearing it from someone else - I mean really, what could be preventing one pair of drivers from working that would suddenly disappear after a few minutes?  But I had them in my ears when it happened...


----------



## Francisk (Sep 11, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> I just got my First KZ the kz ATR and honestly I don't like the sound signature. For my liking it's too dark and somehow veiled, not that fun to listen to...


Skip the rest and go for the ZST or ZS5 instead if you like a more detailed and brighter sound signature and get some Comply T400 tips too if you like a more refined sound from the ZST or ZS5.


----------



## smsmasters (Aug 25, 2017)

I burned in the KZ ATR and it sounds even more amazing for the price. Transient details are still recessed though. Anyone know the exact drivers inside?

I'm collecting them all, ZST, ZS5....


----------



## Slater (Aug 25, 2017)

vladstef said:


> It's been mentioned before that the messy glue looking substance is not just glue but actually something that is there to battle vibrations from the drivers (I'm almost certain that I am wrong at least to some extent and I will edit this when I get corrected). I do know that about 100 pages back some people said that this was a very good thing and unexpected at this price.



That was me that pointed this fact out (not sure how many pages back it was). And yes you remembered correctly - it is a *very* good feature to have on IEMs with BA drivers (especially at this price level).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1275#post-13616188


----------



## snip3r77

vector84 said:


> And on a completely unrelated note... ZSE just got here.
> 
> First impression was less than impressive - sounded very thin and had absolutely no sub-bass *at all*.
> (to the point where messing with EQing it had absolutely no effect)
> ...


So if one has a zs5 should they buy this ?


----------



## snip3r77

vector84 said:


> Yeah mostly the proposed idea is it tends to act as an acoustic crossover - prevents harmonic noise from poorly isolated BAs and gets the sub-bass DD doing what it's supposed to do - rattle the shell and give you that satisfying thump
> 
> 
> To really be sure, you'd need to get a commentary from someone that's gone through the process of tearing them all out and testing them - and while there have been a few people commenting on it as a potential side project, I don't think we've seen any actual results yet here at least
> ...


Basically I feel there is a lot of jealous iem makers that wanted to put down ZX. If you're good , make something better and not smearing their product


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 25, 2017)

There's definitely QC issues with the ZS5.  A pair I got with the mic I mentioned before has a weird frequency response.  There is a narrow band of upper mids that has noticeably abrupt recession.

If they raise the QC to tune them better, I think these would sound really good(as I notice the intentions of the tune, and some part of the spectrum sounds good), but I don't think they are checking their products.  It's so weird that some parts of the sound outputs are really good, and then there are some oddly recessed parts depending on the recording.  Also the bass, my 2nd pair's bass had less definition than the first one I got and wasn't as impactful.  So, I can understand there are inconsistency with there, and some may think the frequency response is a bit skewed around the mids.  Now realizing the importance of QC.

This is the issue with buying from distributors from other countries like China.  If the QC isn't so good on these headphones, you are stuck.  You wait forever to get them, and there's a chance that you may get a bad one.  Getting a refund would be a pain.

I think distributors like Amazon would keep their quality up since people will return the faulty ones.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 25, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> So if one has a zs5 should they buy this ?


Depends what you're looking for?
I haven't had them long enough to really form a complete opinion but my initial take would be:

They sound a lot less U shaped than the ZS5 to me... and while I love the U shaped sound of the ZS5 - I absolutely love that wildly sparkly treble but it can get a bit fatiguing after a long listening session.

The ZSE sounds a lot more controlled in that regard - definitely not as exciting to listen to, rather a bit warmer and something I could imagine listening to for very long periods without any sense of fatigue, though it can make things sound a touch artificial at times.

Based on other opinions though I expected a bit more bass honestly.
To me they sound relatively flat with a lot of treble roll off.
But that's probably a combination of my poor quality sources and my relatively abnormal hearing bias.

Still pretty good for the price of a cup of coffee. 


Also personally I've had nothing but good experiences with dealing with reputable Chinese drop shippers recommended around here, but I mean, it's still shipping from China.
Like SilverEars said, if you can't stand the wait, might wanna stick to Amazon or similar.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 25, 2017)

I think it would be much more beneficial if a lot of them were listed on Amazon with bulk of them stock in the Amazon warehouses, but I think this can raise their price.  Selling them from abroad probably keeps their prices low. KZ has their stuff in Amazon ware houses, and you can get it shipped quickly in 2 days if you have prime.

Amazon built up their reputation based on high reliability and customer service, and by being in the Amazon store as a prime product, customers will have a bit more faith or it would be less of a risky choice in purchase.


----------



## vector84

Might have something to do with why Amazon charges double for them?


----------



## eaglesgift (Aug 26, 2017)

SilverEars said:


> I think it would be much more beneficial if a lot of them were listed on Amazon with bulk of them stock in the Amazon warehouses, but I think this can raise their price.  Selling them from abroad probably keeps their prices low. KZ has their stuff in Amazon ware houses, and you can get it shipped quickly in 2 days if you have prime.
> 
> Amazon built up their reputation based on high reliability and customer service, and by being in the Amazon store as a prime product, customers will have a bit more faith or it would be less of a risky choice in purchase.


I've no interest in seeing them listed on Amazon - impenetrable shipping policies and inflated import fees I can do without. Besides, let's not encourage a monopoly in online shopping: that would benefit no one.

I guess if you live in the US, you might have a different perspective.


----------



## snip3r77

vector84 said:


> Depends what you're looking for?
> I haven't had them long enough to really form a complete opinion but my initial take would be:
> 
> They sound a lot less U shaped than the ZS5 to me... and while I love the U shaped sound of the ZS5 - I absolutely love that wildly sparkly treble but it can get a bit fatiguing after a long listening session.
> ...


In this case it should be compared to Tennmak pro


----------



## mochill

After few minutes with the zse the treble kicked in and mids became more open and bass got tighter


----------



## Marc Lian

Looking at the ZS5 teardown, the fact that some drivers have no porting and are pointing away from the nozzle leads me to think that they are actually using a chamber type design, which if true is really interesting for a cheap IEM. I personally think the ZS5 sounds great especially for the price. Initially plugged the cables the wrong way round and had a messed up out of phase sound but that's sorted now, comfort was surprisingly good stock however I've switched to SpinFit tips which have dramatically improved comfort. I can now wear them for long sessions without much pain or discomfort.


----------



## africanus

Viber said:


> That and the size of the dynamic driver (8mm vs 10mm).



Thanks for the information. It also there seems to be a difference in frequeny extension: KS-ZST ~ 20 - 20,000 Hz vs KZ-ES3 ~ 20 - 40,000 Hz. These figures, however, are pretty useless since KZ does not publish the reference SPL (± dB)


----------



## vector84

africanus said:


> Thanks for the information. It also there seems to be a difference in frequeny extension: KS-ZST ~ 20 - 20,000 Hz vs KZ-ES3 ~ 20 - 40,000 Hz. These figures, however, are pretty useless since KZ does not publish the reference SPL (± dB)


I would tend to point my finger in the direction of the marketing department on that one.
KZ is all over the place when it comes to marketing material for what their specifications are for various products, with different vendors using different iterations of their marketing material claiming different numbers even, and from what I've seen, as you noted, they rarely list the complete reference values, which makes it all useless anyway.
(they sure have some fun scaling those frequency response graphs weirdly too...)


----------



## Astonish

What's the best pair of kz's for forward mids/vocals?


----------



## danimoca

Based on what I'm hearing from everybody, I won't buy the ZS5's.

QC is the basics of a product. If there is none, I won't risk it, nor will I support that company.


----------



## Saoshyant

danimoca said:


> Based on what I'm hearing from everybody, I won't buy the ZS5's.
> 
> QC is the basics of a product. If there is none, I won't risk it, nor will I support that company.



I would imagine there are quite a lot of people who have bought the ZS5 who had no QC issues at all.  Keep in mind people are more inclined to be vocal if there are issues instead of if there are none.  Let's say you have twenty people on here actively talking about QC issues, imagine how many have bought the ZS5 and have none.


----------



## Sylmar

Saoshyant said:


> I would imagine there are quite a lot of people who have bought the ZS5 who had no QC issues at all.  Keep in mind people are more inclined to be vocal if there are issues instead of if there are none.  Let's say you have twenty people on here actively talking about QC issues, imagine how many have bought the ZS5 and have none.


That's true. People with problems will be more vocally active which is kind of normal. I have two KZ5's and have had no problems. It's a great IEM for this price and in my view it could be a gamechanger in lowbudget Chi-fi.


----------



## danimoca (Aug 26, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> I would imagine there are quite a lot of people who have bought the ZS5 who had no QC issues at all.  Keep in mind people are more inclined to be vocal if there are issues instead of if there are none.  Let's say you have twenty people on here actively talking about QC issues, imagine how many have bought the ZS5 and have none.



Yes, but I'm more talking about the differences in sound signature. Some say they're balanced, other's say they're mid centric, other's U-shaped... Why?

I'm not bashing KZ on purpose. I have the ATR's and actually think they sound pretty fantastic for 5 bucks.


----------



## vector84

danimoca said:


> Yes, but I'm more talking about the differences in sound signature. Some say they're balanced, other's say they're mid centric, other's U-shaped... Why?


The number one reason: everyone hears things differently.

Tips and fit play a huge role for any IEM in how they sound.

Your preferred listening volume has a profound effect there too - U and W shaped frequency responses will tend to sound pretty balanced at lower volumes due to the way human hearing works.

And of course source makes a pretty big difference - and without an electronic crossover, the ZS5 probably has a pretty seriously weird looking impedance spectrum, which contributes to this source matching issue quite a bit too I'd imagine.


The only QC issue that strikes me as inordinately prevalent is the out of phase cables - but that's a pretty easy fix too...


----------



## Viber (Aug 26, 2017)

Listening to my new KZ ZSE right now, they sound like they are worth somewhere between 10$-40$ 
Everything is energetic and in the front, not dark like the ATR or ZS3.  Very interesting to listen because of it's versatility.

*Connected to my HRT HeadStreamer.


----------



## ForceMajeure

GUYS, GUYS!!!

not sure if this was shared previously



I hope this is the last time


----------



## snip3r77

ForceMajeure said:


> GUYS, GUYS!!!
> 
> not sure if this was shared previously
> 
> ...




Hope someone will post this every week lol


----------



## maxxevv

Viber said:


> Listening to my new KZ ZSE right now, they sound like they are worth somewhere between 10$-40$
> Everything is energetic and in the front, not dark like the ATR or ZS3.  Very interesting to listen because of it's versatility.
> 
> *Connected to my HRT HeadStreamer.



The ZSE's are pretty source sensitive. If its a neutral source and possibly very slightly 'bright',  I find it brings out the finer points of it.  More or less the same musical pieces played via my LG G6 and my laptop jack sound pretty obviously different. 

Yes, on the LG G6, I do agree they sound very energetic. The bass sounds effortlessly smooth even if you thump up the volume somewhat.  

While you're at it, if its possible, choose your favourite piece(s) of music and rip them in different file formats and data rates.  I just have the weirdest suggestion from my ears that I can hear the difference! 

I have this album that I ripped in 192 kb/s  MP3 format from some 10 years ago.  Now that I have plenty of storage space in my SD card,  decided to re-rip the same album in FLAC.  
To my surprise, there was a telling difference even for such a US$7/- earphone!  

Would be interesting if someone can try it out and see if its psychological on my part.


----------



## aisalen

ForceMajeure said:


> GUYS, GUYS!!!
> 
> not sure if this was shared previously
> 
> ...



Oh c'mon, I think you are 3rd in this week. The question is do you like the sound out of it or not?


----------



## ForceMajeure

aisalen said:


> Oh c'mon, I think you are 3rd in this week. The question is do you like the sound out of it or not?


read carefully...this was sarcasm


----------



## aisalen

ForceMajeure said:


> read carefully...this was sarcasm


Oops, sorry man. I am just tired of seeing this repeatedly in this thread.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yeah...  it's unwelcome, even as a joke


----------



## vector84

maxxevv said:


> The ZSE's are pretty source sensitive. If its a neutral source and possibly very slightly 'bright',  I find it brings out the finer points of it.  More or less the same musical pieces played via my LG G6 and my laptop jack sound pretty obviously different.
> 
> Yes, on the LG G6, I do agree they sound very energetic. The bass sounds effortlessly smooth even if you thump up the volume somewhat.
> 
> ...


So this is probably a topic far more suited to the Sound Science boards.

So first off I'm not talking about high-res content in general, but rather the specific case of re-ripping an album:
If it began life as a CD, there's only 16 bits / 44,100 Hz there (~172.3 kBps) - so any differences you hear should exist somewhere in:

How well your original ripper did in creating the MP3
How well your new ripper did in creating the FLAC
How your player handles turning those MP3 vs FLAC files into audio
So short answer: It's probably not all in your head, but not for the reasons you thought


----------



## Ynot1 (Aug 26, 2017)

KZ using the extra ba and dd reminds me of all those companies that spec amps at peak power versus rms power. Regardless KZ was definitely type cast inaccurately. I think KZ has skill, and like Ray Lewis all things will fall into place when ES3 brings home the superbowl ring.

Spell checker with a personality again, not good.


----------



## ricemanhk

vector84 said:


> So this is probably a topic far more suited to the Sound Science boards.
> 
> So first off I'm not talking about high-res content in general, but rather the specific case of re-ripping an album:
> If it began life as a CD, there's only 16 bits / 44,100 Hz there (~172.3 kBps) - so any differences you hear should exist somewhere in:
> ...



All valid reasons, but for 192kbps mp3 vs flac I think it's borderline discernable if you know what to listen for.  

But I really had my bum handed to me when Tidal came out with that regular MP3 vs FLAC test...not easy once you hit 256kbps and higher!


----------



## CYoung234

vector84 said:


> The number one reason: everyone hears things differently.
> 
> Tips and fit play a huge role for any IEM in how they sound.
> 
> ...



I just unpacked and tested my second pair of ZS5's, both from Gearbest. Both are great. I am busy trying to compare these to the Urbanfun HiFi, which I received this week as well. I realize this is a KZ forum, but my initial impression of the Urbanfun is WOW! I like the sound signature of them, and they are fun to listen to. With a name like that, it is funny that many reviewers say these are actually more neutral than either the ZS5 or the EMI CI880, which I also have. So far, my 5 minute impression of the Urbanfuns is they may be my favorite of all three. But, I still have more listening to do in order to compare them more fairly.


----------



## -sandro-

Francisk said:


> Skip the rest and go for the ZST pr ZS5 instead if you like a more detailed and brighter sound signature and get some Comply T400 tips too if you like a more refined sound from the ZST or ZS5.



Yeah, I don't like recessed mids and I thought here was mild. It's not huge but it's there...


----------



## vector84

ricemanhk said:


> All valid reasons, but for 192kbps mp3 vs flac I think it's borderline discernable if you know what to listen for.
> 
> But I really had my bum handed to me when Tidal came out with that regular MP3 vs FLAC test...not easy once you hit 256kbps and higher!


Like I said, I wasn't talking about high res in general, but rather the specific case of beginning with material that's already been through an ADC into 16 bit / 44.1 kHz digital.

Many papers have been written on why you need to record and process on much higher bit rates to not lose anything as you mess with digital audio even just for producing CD quality work as a final product.


----------



## maxxevv

I have to say its probably somewhere in where you suggest. 



vector84 said:


> So this is probably a topic far more suited to the Sound Science boards.
> 
> So first off I'm not talking about high-res content in general, but rather the specific case of re-ripping an album:
> If it began life as a CD, there's only 16 bits / 44,100 Hz there (~172.3 kBps) - so any differences you hear should exist somewhere in:
> ...


 
I'm just really surprised that these differences are actually discernible on a really budget earphone like the ZSE and a DAC that is built into my phone.  I actually thought it was in my mind that there were differences but I replayed the 2 versions back to back, and then randomly selecting between blind. After a about 2 rounds, I could actually tell which was which blind. Its quite surprising to me at least.


----------



## maxxevv

CYoung234 said:


> I just unpacked and tested my second pair of ZS5's, both from Gearbest. Both are great. I am busy trying to compare these to the Urbanfun HiFi, which I received this week as well. I realize this is a KZ forum, but my initial impression of the Urbanfun is WOW! I like the sound signature of them, and they are fun to listen to. With a name like that, it is funny that many reviewers say these are actually more neutral than either the ZS5 or the EMI CI880, which I also have. So far, my 5 minute impression of the Urbanfuns is they may be my favorite of all three. But, I still have more listening to do in order to compare them more fairly.



I also have the Urbabfun Hi-Fi Hybrid.  To date, its my most versatile earphone as in its easily more than good enough for most genre's I listen to. If I'm on my 'general playlist', I would be on them. Loads of detail, pretty good sound stage, sufficient bass (generally) and very smooth treble. Good and comfortable even after a few hours.   

But when it came to more details, I like the XE800 better. Its my favourite when it comes to more delicate classical compositions such as many solo piano concertos and various instrumental sonatas. Just that they are borderline bright to my ears and not really great after maybe 1~2 hours of listening. 

Then when it comes to punchy, energetic fair such as pop rock, techno/ trance,  the ZSE shines in that aspect.  The problem with the ZSE is the darn cables, they are really noisy.  As such, they are really only good if you're seated when listening.  Considering how cheap the earphones are, I might consider getting a pair and rewire them instead !   

I have pair of CI880 on the postal plane somewhere and the HT06 on its way over by Monday too.  It will be interesting where all three stand relative to each other.


----------



## Slater

danimoca said:


> Based on what I'm hearing from everybody, I won't buy the ZS5's.
> 
> QC is the basics of a product. If there is none, I won't risk it, nor will I support that company.



That's certainly no reason to deny yourself the joy of the ZS5.

The ZS5 has no more or less QC issues than any other KZ (and most ChiFi for that matter). It's just a very small % or units with issues.

The key is buying from a site or seller that will take care of your issue if you are unlucky enough to have a QC issue. No different than any other product you buy, from new cars to new houses.


----------



## eaglesgift

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's certainly no reason to deny yourself the joy of the ZS5.
> 
> The ZS5 has no more or less QC issues than any other KZ (and most ChiFi for that matter). It's just a very small % or units with issues.
> 
> The key is buying from a site or seller that will take care of your issue if you are unlucky enough to have a QC issue. No different than any other product you buy, from new cars to new houses.


I've bought KZ ZS3, ZS5, HDS3, ED9 and ATE from eBay, Gearbest and AliExpress. None of them had QA issues but I didn't think it was worth posting that on here. I expect there are thousands of other people who've bought these IEMs and felt no need to tell everybody there was nothing wrong with them.


----------



## CYoung234

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's certainly no reason to deny yourself the joy of the ZS5.
> 
> The ZS5 has no more or less QC issues than any other KZ (and most ChiFi for that matter). It's just a very small % or units with issues.
> 
> The key is buying from a site or seller that will take care of your issue if you are unlucky enough to have a QC issue. No different than any other product you buy, from new cars to new houses.



Sort of true. I do not remember ever having a car or house shipped to me from China, though!


----------



## vector84

CYoung234 said:


> Sort of true. I do not remember ever having a car or house shipped to me from China, though!


If you've bought a car in the last couple years from a few different brands... that might not be as true as you think


----------



## peskypesky

Keller2 said:


> Anyone got the new silver cable? It actually looks really good compared to the last one. Looks like a high end product despite being 8 dollars.
> Latest KZ ZST /ZST Pro Upgraded Plated Silver Cable 0.75mm 2-Pin 2 PIN Upgrade Repair Silver Plated Braided Cables for ZST
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aURFjqe6
> (from AliExpress Android)


Looks nice in terms of quality...but straight plug is terrible idea IMO.


----------



## cirodts

Has anyone compared the Somic v4 and LIAM & DAAN swan with the zs5?
impressions?


----------



## vector84 (Aug 26, 2017)

So the breakout images would've made me think otherwise, and if it came up before I missed it but...
My ZSE has those red nylon filters ...


----------



## groucho69

eaglesgift said:


> I've bought KZ ZS3, ZS5, HDS3, ED9 and ATE from eBay, Gearbest and AliExpress. None of them had QA issues but I didn't think it was worth posting that on here. I expect there are thousands of other people who've bought these IEMs and felt no need to tell everybody there was nothing wrong with them.



Ditto


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> If you've bought a car in the last couple years from a few different brands... that might not be as true as you think



And check on the origin of the construction materials.


----------



## khighly

I will buy a ZS6 metal housing the second it comes out. I hope they have different colors than the green, as it's super ugly. Purple/Turquoise please!


----------



## mixolyd

Been listening to my new ZS5's for three days now.  No QC issues, fantastic separation and bass, lovely plinky treble.  They've easily bested my CKR9's which had in turn bested the old Havi B3's.  Cheap IEM's have come a long way in the last two years.  And they cost £17 delivered!!!!


----------



## HungryPanda

+100 for Knowledge Zenith, I love their earphones and I love their cost


----------



## cirodts

Has anyone compared the Somic v4 and LIAM & DAAN swan with the zs5?
impressions?


----------



## loomisjohnson

maxxevv said:


> I also have the Urbabfun Hi-Fi Hybrid.  To date, its my most versatile earphone as in its easily more than good enough for most genre's I listen to. If I'm on my 'general playlist', I would be on them. Loads of detail, pretty good sound stage, sufficient bass (generally) and very smooth treble. Good and comfortable even after a few hours.
> 
> But when it came to more details, I like the XE800 better. Its my favourite when it comes to more delicate classical compositions such as many solo piano concertos and various instrumental sonatas. Just that they are borderline bright to my ears and not really great after maybe 1~2 hours of listening.
> 
> ...


+1==you got good taste


----------



## peskypesky

ricemanhk said:


> All valid reasons, but for 192kbps mp3 vs flac I think it's borderline discernable if you know what to listen for.
> 
> But I really had my bum handed to me when Tidal came out with that regular MP3 vs FLAC test...not easy once you hit 256kbps and higher!


I've done ABX testing several times over the years and I can't tell 256 from Flac. So I rip everything to 320 or 256.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 26, 2017)

mixolyd said:


> Been listening to my new ZS5's for three days now.  No QC issues, fantastic separation and bass, lovely plinky treble.  They've easily bested my CKR9's which had in turn bested the old Havi B3's.  Cheap IEM's have come a long way in the last two years.  And they cost £17 delivered!!!!


Yup. I continue to be amazed at the sound quality of my ZS5's. They aren't right for everyone, but they are for me.

I'm just trying to decide whether to order another set or try something else...like the UrbanFuns.

Btw, my KZ ED9s sound darn good too. Very happy with them.


----------



## vladstef

peskypesky said:


> Yup. I continue to be amazed at the sound quality of my ZS5's. They aren't right for everyone, but they are for me.
> 
> I'm just trying to decide whether to order another set or try something else...like the UrbanFuns.


I'd wait for ZS6/ZSR. They are supposedly released on the market next month.


----------



## HungryPanda

Those Urbanfuns intrigue me


----------



## peskypesky

vladstef said:


> I'd wait for ZS6/ZSR. They are supposedly released on the market next month.


Not sure if I'm interested in metal shell ZS5s. Expensive and heavy. I love the light weight of the plastic shells.


----------



## mochill

Kz is not expensive, I enjoy both zs5 and zse, will get zs6/zsr


----------



## HungryPanda

Me also


----------



## vladstef

peskypesky said:


> Not sure if I'm interested in metal shell ZS5s. Expensive and heavy. I love the light weight of the plastic shells.


Fair point about the weight, but the price will remain below 50, probably closer to 30 after some time.


----------



## peskypesky

mochill said:


> Kz is not expensive, I enjoy both zs5 and zse, will get zs6/zsr


Well, expensiver.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 26, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Fair point about the weight, but the price will remain below 50, probably closer to 30 after some time.


I got my ZS5's for $17.

But yeah, if they're not too heavy (according to future reviewers) $30 for metal ZS5's might entice me. We'll see.


----------



## vladstef

peskypesky said:


> I got my ZS5's for $17.
> 
> But yeah, if they're not too heavy (according to future reviewers) $30 for metal ZS5's might entice me. We'll see.


They won't be the same, vent holes are replaced with semi open back (if those images are the final version - they certainly look like a finished product). Even with same drivers, it could have some major effects on bass, sound stage, isolation. It remains to be seen.


----------



## mochill

Hope it is improved


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 26, 2017)

vladstef said:


> They won't be the same, vent holes are replaced with semi open back (if those images are the final version - they certainly look like a finished product).



Vent holes?

Are you talking about the ones in this photo?


----------



## Slater

eaglesgift said:


> I've bought KZ ZS3, ZS5, HDS3, ED9 and ATE from eBay, Gearbest and AliExpress. None of them had QA issues but I didn't think it was worth posting that on here. I expect there are thousands of other people who've bought these IEMs and felt no need to tell everybody there was nothing wrong with them.





vladstef said:


> I'd wait for ZS6/ZSR. They are supposedly released on the market next month.



Do we know for sure the ZS6 = ZSR? The ZSR is supposed to be 5 drivers. I thought the ZS6 is just a metal-shelled ZS5 with open grilles in the back plate?


----------



## vladstef

peskypesky said:


> Vent holes?
> 
> Are you talking about the ones in this photo?


No, this hole remains on the ZS6 as far as the pictures go at this state. ZS5 has bigger vent holes, which are actually lines. There are 3 of them on the plastic seam, look carefully all around the connection of the 2 big plastic shells and you will see 3 thin lines where air can enter/leave. There is a plastic that goes underneath this seam but it is cut in some places to work as vents. It's not a very conventional approach, I think they wanted to hide these 'holes' as much as they could and it only ended up looking weird, almost as if there are manufacturing defects and not purposeful designs, although it very much is intended and every unis has exactly the same vents.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> Not sure if I'm interested in metal shell ZS5s. Expensive and heavy. I love the light weight of the plastic shells.





vladstef said:


> Fair point about the weight, but the price will remain below 50, probably closer to 30 after some time.





peskypesky said:


> But yeah, if they're not too heavy (according to future reviewers) $30 for metal ZS5's might entice me. We'll see.



What do Campfire people say? Are they too heavy to them?

I'm assuming the ZS6 will weigh roughly the same.


----------



## vladstef

Disregard the white rectangle - this was the only picture I could find where you can clearly see where one of the 3 vent lines are:




Look at the plastic that goes around, on the bottom left, next to one of the DD, this plastic line stops and then continues, and this is quite a big vent hole all things considered.


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> Disregard the white rectangle - this was the only picture I could find where you can clearly see where one of the 3 vent lines are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So other than the metal shells, we'll probably be able to turn a ZS5 into a ZS6 but just adding additional/larger vents.


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> So other than the metal shells, we'll probably be able to turn a ZS5 into a ZS6 but just adding additional/larger vents.


Depends on how much the metal ends up tuning the sound plus how they utilized the glue substance, also, the nozzle is different (narrower base) plus it ends with a different mesh. Trying to modify ZS5 is probably very difficult because you'd need to remove the back plastic housing in order to create holes in it, and this could be much harder than it looks. And on top of all this, these big holes on the back of ZS6 have a sort of a mesh which also tunes the sound to some extent. Way too many variables if you ask me.


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> Depends on how much the metal ends up tuning the sound plus how they utilized the glue substance, also, the nozzle is different (narrower base) plus it ends with a different mesh. Trying to modify ZS5 is probably very difficult because you'd need to remove the back plastic housing in order to create holes in it, and this could be much harder than it looks. And on top of all this, these big holes on the back of ZS6 have a sort of a mesh which also tunes the sound to some extent. Way too many variables if you ask me.



That's all doable. I have all of those supplies ;0)


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's all doable. I have all of those supplies ;0)


If you decide to do it and end up with a nice result, some photos would be awesome. I wouldn't do it just yet, wait till they actually release retail units, maybe those photos showed an earlier prototype. Be careful with the glue inside, it has a purpose regarding the sound, it isn't just there to hold the drivers.


----------



## kazuma2017 (Aug 26, 2017)

ZS6?http://imgur.com/a/WVGrs


----------



## manjunath1915

vector84 said:


> And on a completely unrelated note... ZSE just got here.
> 
> First impression was less than impressive - sounded very thin and had absolutely no sub-bass *at all*.
> (to the point where messing with EQing it had absolutely no effect)
> ...


Mine same here too i am liking tuning of zse more than zs5 its all about the bass in zse its so funny than rock zircon my first impression was same but i experienced real burn in after i kept it for 5hrs playing songs


----------



## manjunath1915

vector84 said:


> And on a completely unrelated note... ZSE just got here.
> 
> First impression was less than impressive - sounded very thin and had absolutely no sub-bass *at all*.
> (to the point where messing with EQing it had absolutely no effect)
> ...


But soundstage n details kz zs5 rocks in isolation and fit ease of use fun kz zse excels its compelling buy at 6$


----------



## manjunath1915

snip3r77 said:


> So if one has a zs5 should they buy this ?


Yes its completely different it has bass vibrations but narrow soundstafe n artificial voice


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Still waiting on my ZS5 from gearbest lol

gotta love that free >1 month shipping


----------



## Slater (Aug 26, 2017)

vladstef said:


> If you decide to do it and end up with a nice result, some photos would be awesome. I wouldn't do it just yet, wait till they actually release retail units, maybe those photos showed an earlier prototype. Be careful with the glue inside, it has a purpose regarding the sound, it isn't just there to hold the drivers.



No problem, I was planning on waiting until the retail release

As far as the glue, I'll definitely be careful: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1347#post-13681749


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> Still waiting on my ZS5 from gearbest lol
> 
> gotta love that free >1 month shipping



The wait will be worth it! Just make sure you get the cable polarity sorted when it finally arrives. Nothing worse than the crappy sound when it's out-of-phase.


----------



## vector84

So I poked around a bit on what the effects from those red nylon mesh screens might be and opted to try pulling them off my ZSEs.  Then lacking the patience to wait a few weeks for aliexpress, I switched them out with the screens off a pair of Seahf AWK-009s (which run a little hot for my tastes but I love the way they present vocals).

Results seem to suit my listening preferences nicely on both.

(thanks slater! )


----------



## Silvialite

Have modded my pair of ZSE to pair with KZ SPC cables. Much more controlled bass and sparkle


----------



## Viber

vector84 said:


> So I poked around a bit on what the effects from those red nylon mesh screens might be and opted to try pulling them off my ZSEs.  Then lacking the patience to wait a few weeks for aliexpress, I switched them out with the screens off a pair of Seahf AWK-009s (which run a little hot for my tastes but I love the way they present vocals).
> 
> Results seem to suit my listening preferences nicely on both.
> 
> (thanks slater! )



I'm thinking about jamming some foam in that nozzle.


----------



## maxxevv

Silvialite said:


> Have modded my pair of ZSE to pair with KZ SPC cables. Much more controlled bass and sparkle



I'm intrigued.  

Do share and tell on how you did it. Picts would be wonderful!


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

SomeTechNoob said:


> Still waiting on my ZS5 from gearbest lol
> 
> gotta love that free >1 month shipping



I'm on the same boat.


----------



## Silvialite

maxxevv said:


> I'm intrigued.
> 
> Do share and tell on how you did it. Picts would be wonderful!



My set came with a faulty wire on the left wire on arrival. Decided to pry it open and replace the wire with an old KZ SPC cable I have lying around from my ZST. Had to desolder the old cable and solder the SPC cable on, no way of installing an MMCX plug in it as there’s no space in the earphone. 

Is the mod worth it? Maybe not. Was it fun? Definitely!


----------



## maxxevv

I would think its worth it though. 

The original ZSE cables are seriously noisy. Not usable if you intend to walk around with the earphones plugged in.  Your little modification may have made a better (more usable) earphone out of it, even if it didn't improve sound quality at all.


----------



## Silvialite

maxxevv said:


> I would think its worth it though.
> 
> The original ZSE cables are seriously noisy. Not usable if you intend to walk around with the earphones plugged in.  Your little modification may have made a better (more usable) earphone out of it, even if it didn't improve sound quality at all.



Oh yes. I flipped the left and right channel as well, so it’s now an over the ear cable design. Definitely helps with ergonomics. 

Bass definitely is less boomy, and trebles are slightly extended after this mod. Did a brief comparison with a stock pair of ZSE to confirm this. 

Cable is also running 2.5mm connection to my 300R, so that may have altered the source signal slightly.


----------



## maxxevv

I think the 2.5mm TRRS plug may have made a bigger difference than the cable itself as it now separate, rather than shared poles.


----------



## Silvialite

maxxevv said:


> I think the 2.5mm TRRS plug may have made a bigger difference than the cable itself as it now separate, rather than shared poles.



Possibly.  It now works as my ‘fun’ iem while I await my custom to return from reshelling.


----------



## maxxevv

That sounds like pricey stuff.  

Not an area I want to get into, too many hobbies already.


----------



## maxxevv

loomisjohnson said:


> +1==you got good taste



Haha.. Have to give thanks to you and Vidal for your valuable insights on Vidal's site. 

Honestly, made a fair bit of purchasing decisions based on the reviews you guys did. Mainly because the descriptions and preferences from you guys match quite well with my own.  Of course I had to cross reference other forums and sites too.


----------



## Arkady Duntov

SomeTechNoob said:


> Still waiting on my ZS5 from gearbest lol
> gotta love that free >1 month shipping



I paid $2.81 extra for 7-10 day shipping but it'll be three weeks tomorrow. Still no ZS5. Fortunately, I don't need it.


----------



## zeekz

The KZ ZS6 will retail for about $40-$50!


----------



## Slater

Silvialite said:


> Oh yes. I flipped the left and right channel as well, so it’s now an over the ear cable design. Definitely helps with ergonomics.
> 
> Bass definitely is less boomy, and trebles are slightly extended after this mod. Did a brief comparison with a stock pair of ZSE to confirm this.
> 
> Cable is also running 2.5mm connection to my 300R, so that may have altered the source signal slightly.



Nice idea with the switching channels!


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> That sounds like pricey stuff.
> 
> Not an area I want to get into, too many hobbies already.



Not sure who or what you're talking about.


----------



## maxxevv

slaterlovesspam said:


> Not sure who or what you're talking about.



Was referring to the "reshelling" part ....


----------



## BrunoC

zeekz said:


> The KZ ZS6 will retail for about $40-$50!



Have you got any more info on that?


----------



## groucho69

zeekz said:


> The KZ ZS6 will retail for about $40-$50!



For about 3 weeks?


----------



## robervaul

MAntunes said:


> Are these ZS5 and the ZSR Pro the same IEM?
> If not are there any news about the ZSR Pro?


https://www.instagram.com/p/BYH964DlFNY/
Interesting about the ZSR and ZS10


----------



## zeekz

+ Supposed to be released in September. That's all I know.


----------



## vladstef

So, the one that we've talked about, ZSR is now KZ's mid range? And ZS10 is the new flagship? Just when I thought that naming couldn't get more confusing. This is what happens when you have 5 or more products in development stage and absolutely need to release them. The good thing is that we have quarterly push of the sound quality instead of yearly.


----------



## Griffith

cirodts said:


> Has anyone compared the Somic v4 and LIAM & DAAN swan with the zs5?
> impressions?



I own the Somic V4 and I have the ZS5 on order. I'm expecting them to arrive next week *knock on wood* though the post office has been rather slow and erratic lately. I'll try to remember to post a small comparison between them when I do, or just keep an eye on this thread and call me up when I post a response about them if I forget.

From what I've read though about the ZS5, I don't think or am expecting them to sound similar to the Somic at all. I'm expecting the ZS5 to sound a lot more lively than the Somic with very forward vocals and treble, but more refined and perhaps a bit more detailed than on the ZST.

I would really only compare the Somic V4 with the KZ ATE. I think those two are much more similar in terms of sound signature.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 27, 2017)

cirodts said:


> Has anyone compared the Somic v4 and LIAM & DAAN swan with the zs5?
> impressions?


The swans look like Rock Zircons.  A quick google search suggests a regional OEM possibly?

I don't have them but maybe that will help point you in the right direction - several others around here have the Zircons


----------



## jaydm99

So the ZS6 will be available in black, green and red


----------



## mochill

Green for me


----------



## eaglesgift

mochill said:


> Green for me


Red or black for me.


----------



## VinceHill24

Guess we gotta hold on to our wallet. KZ keeps striking harder and harder. The ZS6 could be a little delayed to mid September but there'll be a new ZS3 hybrid too for next month according to them. And yea ES3 is still gearbest exclusive at this moment. 

Red doesn't look match to the ZS6 design imo. Black looks way nicer to me


----------



## ricemanhk

I like black (highlights the metal plugs and the eventual silver cable well), but green and red ain't too bad either!

I'm gonna wait for ZS10 though, unless ZS6 is vastly different sound sig.


----------



## maxxevv

Jay Magaling said:


> So the ZS6 will be available in black, green and red



I see a fair bit of 'modding' to be done with these ! 

Those Torx screws are just begging people to open them up and swapping the covers or simply to change the colours on the covers !   

While they are at it,  KZ could offer mixed coloured pairs to designate Left/Right such as a Red for Right and Black for left !   Or they could sell different coloured covers !!! 

Lots of things to play with !!!


----------



## thejoker13

I own the zs3, zst (both colors), zs5 (gray with KZ upgrade cable, plus several other ones that never come out of the drawer. I've been very interested in what KZ has been developing and releasing and will continue to buy every new model they release. I say all of this, just to say that I have no q.c issues with any of my 9 KZ's. By no q.c issues, it's just that all of them work well and have no obvious defects. My one and only gripe is all of wildly inconsistent reviews and impressions with their different KZ models. Though my different  KZ earphones may sound drastically different than yours. Is that poor q.c, even though they both "sound good"?


----------



## vladstef (Aug 28, 2017)

Jay Magaling said:


> So the ZS6 will be available in black, green and red


Can I have one of each? Green is quite unique, red is just pure fire and black is the most regular one but everything looks amazing in black...
It won't be hard to make a choice and order them, problem is choosing a color...
Any of these would be perfect with metal 2 pin connectors, I can't grasp the usage of the plastic ones, especially this long for no reason.


----------



## maxxevv (Aug 28, 2017)

Sometimes its just a matter of how different people hear things. 

Other times it may be slightly more technical.

i) Out of the box impressions: 

Some members leave comments based on straight out of the box impressions of maybe 3-5mins.  I have a few budget IEMs myself and I have to say most of them need some amount of burn-in.  Some very substantially (ie  XE800).
The only KZ I have is the ZSE,  it was a little mushy straight out of the box, none of the sparkle or clean tight bass. At least that was how it sounded like for a 3-5 minute audition.  I left it to burn-in overnight on pink noise.                                                       That was maybe 8~9 hours before I stopped it.  It sounded obviously different from that initial impression after the burn-in. It sounded much more punch and crisp in its signature. 
Seemingly the intended signature and I really enjoyed it since. 

I was a 'burn-in' skeptic for starters.  

No idea how much is required for the ZS5 but I believe it would need at least a good hour or so.

ii) Sound source : 

The source does affect the sound output more so on some earphones than others.  Playback on the laptop jack versus my LG G6 wasn't significantly different on the Xiaomi Piston 3 and the Urbanfun Hifi though the differences were there.  But plug the ZSE into the laptop jack vs the G6 and they sound pretty different  !  It might be a similar case for the ZS5. a suitably matched source may bring out its best versus and not so well matched source bringing out its worst.  

I would suggest explore the above options first before making final conclusions about an earphone's sound signature.


----------



## vector84

Brain burn-in is a very real thing too 
(ie your perception changing over time)

And I haven't put it to any hard tests, but the ZS5 strikes me as considerably more picky about sources than the ZSE.
None of my (rather poor) sources make the ZSE sound bad - not as good, sure, but not *bad*.
Can't say the same for the ZS5 - going past moderate volume on my on-board is decidedly unacceptable for me.


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> Brain burn-in is a very real thing too
> (ie your perception changing over time)
> 
> And I haven't put it to any hard tests, but the ZS5 strikes me as considerably more picky about sources than the ZSE.
> ...


I've seen many people make that comment about brain burn-in but it doesn't make sense if you're not listening to the 'phones in question when they're being burned in.


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> I've seen many people make that comment about brain burn-in but it doesn't make sense if you're not listening to the 'phones in question when they're being burned in.


That's a whole neuroscience topic in and of itself.

Would it suffice to say most of your actual learning takes place outside of the activities that it involves?

There's also the more typical answers like confirmation bias.


----------



## maxxevv

eaglesgift said:


> I've seen many people make that comment about brain burn-in but it doesn't make sense if you're not listening to the 'phones in question when they're being burned in.



Exactly. 

If you are listening to them for the 'burn-in' to set in yes, the ears will adjust instead to what you're listening to.  But not when you do it without listening to them.  
And just to clarify, I always listen to them back to back on the same tracks while referencing an earphone I'm intimately clear about its signature.  For that I use the humbly ever reliable Xiaomi Piston 3's which I listen for the differences between it and the earphone in question. 

You compare to a reference point, not to your memory.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 28, 2017)

Human memory and learning are far more complex tasks than you give them credit for.

They absolutely do not need to be in your ears to exhibit brain burn in.


EDIT: as an example, check out some of the research on the effects of altering a person's HRTF temporarily
or sleep/memory studies, etc.

Mind you I'm not trying to say burn-in does or doesn't exist, or start any other sort of controversy, just pointing out that our perception is a complex tapestry.


----------



## Slater

robervaul said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BYH964DlFNY/
> Interesting about the ZSR and ZS10



_"Apparently there's a change in nomenclature so the new ZSR is actually for a 3 drivers (2BA + 1DD) IEM instead."_

Wow, interesting.

So I wonder when the 5-driver IEM will be released, and what it will be named (ie what WAS supposed to be the ZSR Pro)? Is this the ZS10 people keep referring to?


----------



## maxxevv

vector84 said:


> Human memory and learning are far more complex tasks than you give them credit for.
> 
> They absolutely do not need to be in your ears to exhibit brain burn in.
> 
> ...



Citations needed.  Thank you.


----------



## maxxevv

slaterlovesspam said:


> _"Apparently there's a change in nomenclature so the new ZSR is actually for a 3 drivers (2BA + 1DD) IEM instead."_
> 
> Wow, interesting.
> 
> So I wonder when the 5-driver IEM will be released, and what it will be named (ie what WAS supposed to be the ZSR Pro)? Is this the ZS10 people keep referring to?



Thought the original packing box shot your showed read " ZSR PRO" ??  Maybe that's the difference ?


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> That's a whole neuroscience topic in and of itself.
> 
> Would it suffice to say most of your actual learning takes place outside of the activities that it involves?
> 
> There's also the more typical answers like confirmation bias.


All sounds a bit nebulous to me.

I didn't believe that burn in could have any effect but I recently ran some white noise/pink noise/frequency sweeps through my headphones, which I have owned for a couple of years and probably used for 50-100 hours in that time (I'm not really sure how many hours but I don't use them very often). I would swear that they have opened up soundstage and treble-response-wise, since trying the burn-in tracks for 25 or so hours. Now I didn't believe that burn in would make a difference when I was doing it so I think that should rule out confirmation bias (although I could subconsciously have been wishing for it to work of course) and I've already had plenty of time to become accustomed to the sound signature of these particular 'phones already so it's hard to make a case for brain burn in.

I'm still not 100% decided one way or the other but I have gone from being a sceptic to sitting on the fence.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 28, 2017)

Oh boy, I see I managed to dive face first into a mine field.

That was not my intention.  I was just trying to suggest you not be so quick to discount the possibilities when dealing with something as complex as human perception.  Rather I would say that attempting to logically classify brain burn-in as existent or not in a particular instance runs the same risks as attempting to classify burn-in in general - probably missing at least a few relevant variables.

And with that I'll attempt a graceful exit from the subject:

I remain skeptical of burn-in effecting audio quality - rather I choose to think I do it because if an electrical problem (as opposed to a mechanical one) is going to manifest, it will probably manifest either sooner or much later in a device's lifetime.

At least, that's what helps me sleep at night. 


(Also if you hear it, you hear it, it's that simple.  If you enjoy it, great!  Doesn't really matter if it's grounded in physics or psycho-acoustics.)


----------



## ricemanhk

Too many different factors that's causing differences in KZ opinions.  Earphone burn in, brain burn in, wire burn in (omg huge can of worms LOL) QC issues (anecdotally it seems worse than more well known brands), source file differences, source differences, mods, etc. etc.
That KZs are relatively cheap means lots of people willing to buy it and give it a shot, then post here with their impressions, hence a wider range of opinions.

Ultimately, it's what you hear that counts, and their earphones are generally cheap enough to try them yourself to form your own opinion!


----------



## nhlean96

Finally received my ZSE, OOTB they're very good. V-shape sound signature, punchy bass and goes deep. I found the bass responsive to tip rolling, the starline tips offer the cleanest bass while the the one comes with ED9 is boomier and fun sounding bass. 
Lower-mid range is recessed, vocal lacks some warmth. Overall mid-range is just OK, toward the bright side. There are some upper-mid peaks, so the sibilance is kinda annoying.
Treble is fine, with nice detail, no roll-off at all (tested with a Frequency Sweeping track). This is a step up from the ATE, which have rolled-off treble.
The soundstage is fine, wide with good instrument seperation, but lacks some depth because the lack of warmth. Compared to the ATE, the ZSE is wider but lack the 3D feeling.


----------



## Damikiller37

A little more info on the ZS6 and other KZ products:

"The estimated release date has been set on *10th September 2017* which is about 2 weeks from now. "
Like mentioned a few posts back it will come in 3 colours:* Red, Green and Black*.
Price is estimated for *199 Malaysian Ringgit *so approx: *$46.63 USD / £36.15 / €39.06*
Also " there will be a *new ZS3 hybrid* too next month along with *ZS6* and *ZSR* the following month which should be a 3 drivers design."
Source with some larger photos: https://www.instagram.com/p/BYVKdGKFOKx/


----------



## vladstef

ZS6 priced very similarly to ZS5 on release. Mark my words, it will be <30$, maybe even <25$ after a month.


----------



## crabdog

KZ fans, I've just spotted the ZS6 in the wild. Price is $47.50-49.50.  *Keep in mind on the store it says: "Note:all orders will be shipped after 7-10 days when you place an order,pls understand!"
Have at it! https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ne-for-Iphone-Mobile/1922340_32828061649.html


----------



## Ynot1 (Aug 28, 2017)

I liken burn in to a baseball glove. Many amateurs simply do not take the time like the pros to make the glove work right by breaking them in.
Although dynamic drivers only have the cone, suspension, surrounds, and glue, they are part of a moving parts that come together to make music right.
Just saying.

Balance armatures prolly don't seem like it would need burn in, but maybe only to a lesser degree. Electrostatic and planar magnetic might be a whole new ballgame.

Spell checkers acting up again.


----------



## Middle

Does anyone know if the ZS6 nozzle shaft has a tip lip or not? I had a very frustrating situation with tips slipping off of the ZS5 because the nozzles are perfectly smooth. KZ copied the Andromeda which has a lip.... so does pretty much all other earphones. I'm still pissed off about them making this really puzzling design decision.


----------



## vector84

All the pictures we've seen so far seem to indicate no lip on the ZS6.

I can't help but wonder though if the handful of people with tip problems on the ZS5 are experiencing a manufacturing defect or if their ears are just that damn grippy


----------



## Damikiller37

Middle said:


> Does anyone know if the ZS6 nozzle shaft has a tip lip or not? I had a very frustrating situation with tips slipping off of the ZS5 because the nozzles are perfectly smooth. KZ copied the Andromeda which has a lip.... so does pretty much all other earphones. I'm still pissed off about them making this really puzzling design decision.


If you look at the images on the Instagram link I posted above you can see it's smooth just like ZS5s. I personally had no issues with tips slipping off but a longer nozzle or the lip sure would help. I'm pretty sure someone used a small o-ring on the nozzles then inserted a tip over it all and that helped. Might be quite finding the right sized o-ring for it though.


----------



## Middle (Aug 28, 2017)

Damikiller37 said:


> If you look at the images on the Instagram link I posted above you can see it's smooth just like ZS5s. I personally had no issues with tips slipping off but a longer nozzle or the lip sure would help. I'm pretty sure someone used a small o-ring on the nozzles then inserted a tip over it all and that helped. Might be quite finding the right sized o-ring for it though.



Yeah I was just going to edit after I saw that aliexpress link showing the smooth nozzles. Can anyone suggest a logical reason as to why KZ is doing this?


----------



## vladstef (Aug 28, 2017)

Middle said:


> Yeah I was just going to edit after I saw that aliexpress link showing the smooth nozzles. Can anyone suggest a logical reason as to why KZ is doing this?


Most people don't experience any issues with the nozzles. With my unit, I can put spin fit CP-240 (which requires a lot of force to come out of my ears) and it is so firm, absolutely not even close to coming off without some serious pulling with hands. Have no issues with any comply tips, even ones with largest hole, I think it's 5mm or something like that. The nozzle gives a lot of surface area to work with, so even if something was to fall of it, slight modifications to tips could work. Perhaps putting a few layers of clear tape on the nozzle could widen it, this just looks so easy to do.
I had Senn IE800 and sold it because of its bore, try to fit any sort of tips on that thing and you are in some huge problems. Even the original ones started to fall off after some time, absolute garbage nozzle for some serious money. Trust me, ZS5's nozzle is perfect to work with.
As to why they didn't include a small indentation, it was probably because it affected sound in some wrong way, maybe they didn't want to mess with BA driver inside the nozzle, maybe it was just to cut costs of additional manufacturing processes.

EDIT: Just saw that ZST has some sort of a plastic ring on the nozzle, and it also has BA driver inside the bore so, that theory is out of the picture.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 28, 2017)

Middle said:


> Yeah I was just going to edit after I saw that aliexpress link showing the smooth nozzles. Can anyone suggest a logical reason as to why KZ is doing this?


Well a few TOTL products include a smooth nozzle design - that would lead me to believe there's a chance it's not an entirely arbitrary choice.

I can hazard a guess though: if the shell really is involved in sound conduction in a significant way, notching the nozzle might be quite relevant somehow?


Now I don't work in the industry, so that's just a guess - but if that's even in the ballpark of a right answer, then anyone that could actually answer you definitively might have good reason to not want to do so.


----------



## trumpethead

loomisjohnson said:


> if anyone in the us wants to swap my kz zse for another kz (or comparable) please pm me.


: I

Why, Please?


----------



## vladstef

vector84 said:


> Well a few TOTL products include a smooth nozzle design - that would lead me to believe there's a chance it's not an entirely arbitrary choice.
> 
> I can hazard a guess though: if the shell really is involved in sound conduction in a significant way, notching the nozzle might be quite relevant somehow?
> 
> ...


Given how only a few people mentioned having problems with this, I think it's safe to say that no one is getting hurt if it is done only to save a few cents per unit. It also could've been a mundane decision, they saw that it works and just stopped even talking about whether they could improve it or not, and taking into account that ZS5 generally didn't show any problems in that area, why not keep it for ZS6. The important thing is that they are fixing one issue at a time, we will get metal design now with much more premium looking IEM, hopefully they will also find a way to improve their 2 pin connection and more importantly, their ultra bad memory wire.. Cables are replaceable, so this is not even an issue, but 2 pin connectors don't feel secure on my ZS5, I live in a constant fear that they will disconnect and fall when I take them out and put them around my neck while I'm walking. MMCX has served me better in this regard, but this one ages in a not so good way. Maybe it's too much to expect from budget company to set a new standard for connectors...


----------



## vector84 (Aug 28, 2017)

That's interesting... all of mine fit pretty absurdly tightly and I've put quite a few disconnect cycles on one pair (as in several hundred).

Well, no one ever said manufacturing tolerances were KZ's strong suit. 


PS: Seems like it would be safe to use a standard 0.78mm cable if your stock 0.75mm ones don't fit tightly enough? I know it's not an ideal solution but... that or some glue?


----------



## loomisjohnson (Aug 28, 2017)

trumpethead said:


> : I
> 
> Why, Please?


i think the zse does certain things very well, esp. midrange + low end is  well controlled. however i think they need an amp to reach their potential and their fit is awkward for me. someone who is more brightness-phobic would appreciate these.


----------



## peskypesky

Middle said:


> I had a very frustrating situation with tips slipping off of the ZS5 because the nozzles are perfectly smooth.


I haven't had that issue with my ZS5s. My Comply tips are very secure.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 28, 2017)

Jay Magaling said:


> So the ZS6 will be available in black, green and red


Black, please.  

I was actually thinking about painting my gray ZS5's black with some model paint.


----------



## peskypesky

nhlean96 said:


> Finally received my ZSE, OOTB they're very good. V-shape sound signature, punchy bass and goes deep. I found the bass responsive to tip rolling, the starline tips offer the cleanest bass while the the one comes with ED9 is boomier and fun sounding bass.
> Lower-mid range is recessed, vocal lacks some warmth. Overall mid-range is just OK, toward the bright side. There are some upper-mid peaks, so the sibilance is kinda annoying.
> Treble is fine, with nice detail, no roll-off at all (tested with a Frequency Sweeping track). This is a step up from the ATE, which have rolled-off treble.
> The soundstage is fine, wide with good instrument seperation, but lacks some depth because the lack of warmth. Compared to the ATE, the ZSE is wider but lack the 3D feeling.


How does the ZSE compare to the ED9?  I have the ED9 and really like them.


----------



## vladstef

vector84 said:


> That's interesting... all of mine fit pretty absurdly tightly and I've put quite a few disconnect cycles on one pair (as in several hundred).
> 
> Well, no one ever said manufacturing tolerances were KZ's strong suit.
> 
> ...


I am definitely gonna need some sort of a way to keep them in, some glue or at least some way to provide more friction on the male connectors' plastic, maybe put a blob of glue there and spread it out. 
Funny thing is that silver cables don't even go in properly, the plastic housing stands in the way, and I don't want to plug the pins (as much as I can) and then wiggle it around too much, I am afraid that I will damage the female connectors and this would be a real problem. They want to use plastic casing that goes around the female connector as a friction provider, but if you are going to use that, you need to have a very precise manufacturing there. This is probably the main reason why I'd prefer mmcx at this price, because it's the connector itself that holds it all together. Pins alone obviously aren't enough.


----------



## peskypesky

vladstef said:


> 2 pin connectors don't feel secure on my ZS5, I live in a constant fear that they will disconnect and fall when I take them out and put them around my neck while I'm walking.



I felt the same way. Mne would disconnect fairly easily....like when pulling them out of my pants pocket. Then I realized I could push the plug in even further....and get a really snug fit. Now, the fit is tight.


----------



## jaydm99

The ZS6 is available on AliExpress, well at least for pre-order. I was expecting this to be sold at $40-45.


----------



## nhlean96

peskypesky said:


> How does the ZSE compare to the ED9?  I have the ED9 and really like them.


Sorry, I haven't tried the ED9, but comfort wise, I think the ZSE bested the ED9 (my ears aren't that big). I like the ZSE very much despite having many "best bang of the buck" IEMs (like the LG Quadbeat 2 & 3, Seahf AWK-009, EINSEAR T2, ...). I takes a little bit adjustment ( deep or shallow insert, tip rolling, EQ....) to make the ZSE shine. I think the ZSE have many potentials cause they're very responsive to source or EQ. The sticky cable is a major downfall of these, but considering the price ($6 or under), these ZSE are non-brainer.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 28, 2017)

nhlean96 said:


> Sorry, I haven't tried the ED9, but comfort wise, I think the ZSE bested the ED9 (my ears aren't that big). I like the ZSE very much despite having many "best bang of the buck" IEMs (like the LG Quadbeat 2 & 3, Seahf AWK-009, EINSEAR T2, ...). I takes a little bit adjustment ( deep or shallow insert, tip rolling, EQ....) to make the ZSE shine. I think the ZSE have many potentials cause they're very responsive to source or EQ. The sticky cable is a major downfall of these, but considering the price ($6 or under), these ZSE are non-brainer.


I've thought about ordering the ZSE's because they're so inexpensive and get generally good reviews. But since I already have several budget IEM's that I'm happy with (KZ ZS5, KZ ED9, Rock Zircon), it doesn't really make sense.

I think I'll save the money for some ZS6's...or a small, portable headphone amp like the FiiO A3 (or A1).


----------



## Sylmar

Tried my second ZSE and this is apparently a correct one without QC issues as it sounds very different to the one I got first. A very likeable IEM indeed. I'm using it with L & R units swapped overear with T200 Comply foams. I can't help but think that KZ is onto something here lately.


----------



## vector84

vladstef said:


> I am definitely gonna need some sort of a way to keep them in, some glue or at least some way to provide more friction on the male connectors' plastic, maybe put a blob of glue there and spread it out.
> Funny thing is that silver cables don't even go in properly, the plastic housing stands in the way, and I don't want to plug the pins (as much as I can) and then wiggle it around too much, I am afraid that I will damage the female connectors and this would be a real problem. They want to use plastic casing that goes around the female connector as a friction provider, but if you are going to use that, you need to have a very precise manufacturing there. This is probably the main reason why I'd prefer mmcx at this price, because it's the connector itself that holds it all together. Pins alone obviously aren't enough.


Assuming (dangerous) that the upgrade cables match the pictures (I don't have them) a too large connector should be an easier fix, I would think?

The shoulder on the back side away from the L/R markings should press right up against the housing when fully inserted.  Mine all took a fair amount of force to seat completely the first time.

If you definitely can't get it to go in that far, you could gently "adjust" the plug to fit.  If you only need a *very* small amount of clearance, you might be able to gently polish the plug into shape with a hard object or a hard edge.  If you need more clearance you might have to consider something more aggressive, but often all it takes is a gentle pass with a fingernail along the edge of a plastic connector to get it to mate properly.


----------



## groucho69

Ynot1 said:


> I liken burn in to a baseball glove. Many amateurs simply do not take the time like the pros to make the glove work right by breaking them in.
> Although dynamic drivers only have the cone, suspension, surrounds, and glue, they are part of a moving parts that come together to make music right.
> Just saying.
> 
> ...



I hat tham slep chacters


----------



## I2ecreate

Jay Magaling said:


> The ZS6 is available on AliExpress, well at least for pre-order. I was expecting this to be sold at $40-45.



Damn, I just got my ZS5's in the mail. Oh well, can't wait to hear the reviews!


----------



## groucho69

I2ecreate said:


> Damn, I just got my ZS5's in the mail. Oh well, can't wait to hear the reviews!



Celebrate your ZS5


----------



## Keller2

Already ordered a magaosi k3 today... Ill skip this one until it drops to like $30 on gearbest.


----------



## esfrost

Can't wait to see it on Gearbest and read the first reviews. Defintely gonna get one. Just got my ZS5, really enjoying it, such a fun IEM. For some reason, at least for me, Michael Jackson - Thriller album sound so well on it.


----------



## I2ecreate

groucho69 said:


> Celebrate your ZS5



I just got my Benjie x1 in the mail so I'm definitely celebrating them.


----------



## mixolyd

After a few days I'm still blown away by how good the ZS5 is but I'm a bit more aware of its quirks.

It is extremely revealing of room ambience in recordings, to the detriment of some records.  The wall of sound on the stereo version of Pet Sounds (where whole groups of instruments were recorded with a single mic) sounds horrible - there's way too much room sound audible, making it a clangy mess.  On the other hand some multitracked recordings (e.g. "Together Alone" by Crowded House) sound a little fake, because the differing room ambience and mic response of each instrument can be heard - making it sound like a collection of audio tracks in a DAW rather than a cohesive performance.  Whether that record was multitracked in real time or digitally assembled from separate performances I don't know, but the ZS5 makes it sound like the latter.

I wonder if this ambience sensitivity is down to the very lively treble response of the ZS5, could be a BA thing? 

The other thing going on at the same time is the combination of excellent separation with a slightly narrow soundstage.  I've heard IEMs with much narrower sound stages but the immense separation of the ZS5 makes things feel pretty crammed in at times.  Maybe the widening effect on some DAPS could finally find a good use here.

I guess the last little grumble would be the slightly recessed mids that can make vocals sound like they've been mixed a little low.  It's a shame because the rendering of the male voice in the ZS5 is really lovely when you hear it up front.

Just to be clear: these are incredible 'phones.  When the lad on YouTube said that they may be the GOAT value for money deal in audio, I knew I had to give 'em a go and sure enough they are about that good.



esfrost said:


> Can't wait to see it on Gearbest and read the first reviews. Defintely gonna get one. Just got my ZS5, really enjoying it, such a fun IEM. For some reason, at least for me, Michael Jackson - Thriller album sound so well on it.



Yes I just put it on now, what a superb production this record has.  Vincent Price sounds awesome!


----------



## BunchOfAtoms (Aug 28, 2017)

So, after a month and a half this morning I finally got the grey ZS5 from Gearbest in my mailbox.
First impression was: wow, they're small. I was expecting them to be huge from the photos I see here and I was a bit concerned.
After having carefully connected the cable, I checked for phase issues on audiocheck.net, but they sound just fine.
Then I listened to one of my favorite albums (Ensiferum - Ensiferum, FLAC with Neutron) with stock medium tips through my Nexus 6P. Woah, I really liked what I heard. Fun and engaging.
The cable and the memory wire are not as bad as I thought. I never wear IEMs over-ear, and that's not the quickest thing to be put on, but it's comfortable and it holds the earpieces tight in place. Microphonics is average.
The only quality issue I noticed is while I was putting the right earpiece on, I accidentally hit it with my fingernail with moderate strength, not too hard at all. Well, one of the drivers just turned off, I think, because the volume went down significantly on that side. Another hard hit with my fingernail fixed it, but I assume the build quality is pretty low.
After a quick comparison with the Urbanfun HiFi Hybrid, my favorite IEM, the ZS5 seemed more airy and to be having better separation. The sound signatures are not too different but the treble seems recessed on the Urbanfun. ZS5's highs might be piercing for someone, but I like sizzling highs, so it's not a concern to me. Foam tips help taming them, but so far I like the Starlines better. Isolation is good enough.
My phone drives them pretty well, but the volume is not very loud on high dynamic range tracks (pre-loudness war era).
So far I'm really impressed. The only bad thing is now my Urbanfun sounds kind of muddy and unnatural.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 28, 2017)

esfrost said:


> Can't wait to see it on Gearbest and read the first reviews. Defintely gonna get one. Just got my ZS5, really enjoying it, such a fun IEM. For some reason, at least for me, Michael Jackson - Thriller album sound so well on it.


Yep. Almost everything I listen to on the ZS5's sounds so alive and present. Very fun listening.


----------



## Podster

peskypesky said:


> How does the ZSE compare to the ED9?  I have the ED9 and really like them.



Jesus Pesky, your just going to have to give me a little time as my ZSE just got here along with a few other toys


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> Jesus Pesky, your just going to have to give me a little time as my ZSE just got here along with a few other toys


what the hell?

P.S. Love the Roger Dean avatar.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 28, 2017)

BunchOfAtoms said:


> My phone drives them pretty well, but the volume is not very loud on high dynamic range tracks (pre-loudness war era).



Yeah, so far the only music that isn't sounding great with my Benjie S5/KZ ZS5 rig is classical music and some 70s-era prog.

Even when I boost the volume all the way, the sound is anemic.

Hoping that a FiiO A3 helps with that.


----------



## CYoung234 (Aug 28, 2017)

BunchOfAtoms said:


> So, after a month and a half this morning I finally got the grey ZS5 from Gearbest in my mailbox.
> First impression was: wow, they're small. I was expecting them to be huge from the photos I see here and I was a bit concerned.
> After having carefully connected the cable, I checked for phase issues on audiocheck.net, but they sound just fine.
> Then I listened to one of my favorite albums (Ensiferum - Ensiferum, FLAC with Neutron) with stock medium tips through my Nexus 6P. Woah, I really liked what I heard. Fun and engaging.
> ...



I am going through the opposite. I got my ZS5's first, followed by the EMI CI880 and the Urbanfun last. I keep going back and forth between these three, but so far, I think the Urbanfun is underrrated, at least on my setup, which is also a Nexus 6p. I am running Flash kernel with EX Kernel Manager on mine, so I am boosting the volume by 8dB. I also use the Ainur Audio stuff to basically just feed everything through the DAC without messing with it. I also use Neutron music player, without the EQ so far, and I am very happy with the output. It plays all of these iems as loud as I would ever care to listen to them.

But, of the three iems, the ZS5s and the Urbanfuns are close. The Urbanfuns have better soundstaging than some here give them credit for. So far, the basic difference is that their low end is a touch better, and female vocals are not quite as recessed as the ZS5. These are both good qualities for me. Today, I listened to Prisoner, by the Jezabels, an Aussie Indy group. For me, the Urbanfun was my favorite on this. For classical, I think the ZS5 is edging it out a bit still...

Keep in mind, this is my source, my ears, and my sound preference, so as always, YMMV!


----------



## Podster

peskypesky said:


> what the hell?
> 
> P.S. Love the Roger Dean avatar.



THX Pesky, love Roger's work. I was kind of all over the place with my last order/s but they all came in at once! My Well-Tempered Amadeus needed a new cartridge and this Audio Technica Micro Line is all the rage with the guys at Needle Doctor so thought I'd give it a try and of course all you dirty dogs out here made me order the ZSE's LOL As soon as I saw the new BGVP I had to try this hybrid out and could not pass up another pair of the Techne's before the ship fully submerges Looks like these DN1's have the same cable as the FBUANG F910's except these are MMCX 

Initial listen on the ZSE's with my iPhone 6 EQ Flat is like all double DD, Bass in da Face but if one ramps back on the VU they pan out rather nicely as the mids hold up just enough to keep some highs on point. Now I need to slap an amp to them with some Prog Rock and see how they fair


----------



## ustinj

So the ZS6 is the same innards as zs5 but with a more premium casing. Perhaps the aluminum housing can change the sound a bit.

Looking forward to the ZS7 with CA logo next!


----------



## Saoshyant

ustinj said:


> So the ZS6 is the same innards as zs5 but with a more premium casing. Perhaps the aluminum housing can change the sound a bit.
> 
> Looking forward to the ZS7 with CA logo next!



I'm waiting for CA to make a budget earbud using a KZ shell.


----------



## peskypesky

ustinj said:


> So the ZS6 is the same innards as zs5 but with a more premium casing. Perhaps the aluminum housing can change the sound a bit.


 Hopefully it doesn't hurt the sound.


----------



## ustinj

I wonder what motivated KZ to rehouse the ZS5 in a more Andromeda-like shell.

Do you guys think they are leaning more towards being a status symbol with the ZS6, such as brand name spin offs like abibas / adidas? I personally am interested because I love machined metal shells...


----------



## Deveraux

ustinj said:


> So the ZS6 is the same innards as zs5 but with a more premium casing. Perhaps the aluminum housing can change the sound a bit.
> 
> Looking forward to the ZS7 with CA logo next!



Just like the Sony XB55AP/75AP.


----------



## Slater

ustinj said:


> I wonder what motivated KZ to rehouse the ZS5 in a more Andromeda-like shell.
> 
> Do you guys think they are leaning more towards being a status symbol with the ZS6, such as brand name spin offs like abibas / adidas? I personally am interested because I love machined metal shells...



Money.

The difference between IEMs in the ATx line and the EDx line are often just a different color, different type of plastic shell, or the location of a vent hole. A minor tweak, and you have a new model. New model = more sales. More sales = more money. More money = more yachts and Gulfstream G650s.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

CYoung234 said:


> I am going through the opposite. I got my ZS5's first, followed by the EMI CI880 and the Urbanfun last. I keep going back and forth between these three, but so far, I think the Urbanfun is underrrated, at least on my setup, which is also a Nexus 6p. I am running Flash kernel with EX Kernel Manager on mine, so I am boosting the volume by 8dB. I also use the Ainur Audio stuff to basically just feed everything through the DAC without messing with it. I also use Neutron music player, without the EQ so far, and I am very happy with the output. It plays all of these iems as loud as I would ever care to listen to them.
> 
> But, of the three iems, the ZS5s and the Urbanfuns are close. The Urbanfuns have better soundstaging than some here give them credit for. So far, the basic difference is that their low end is a touch better, and female vocals are not quite as recessed as the ZS5. These are both good qualities for me. Today, I listened to Prisoner, by the Jezabels, an Aussie Indy group. For me, the Urbanfun was my favorite on this. For classical, I think the ZS5 is edging it out a bit still...
> 
> Keep in mind, this is my source, my ears, and my sound preference, so as always, YMMV!



I used to boost the gain too, as I'm running ElementalX and EXKM as well, but that increases the background noise as well, so I decided to roll back to +0 dB. As for other mods, I flashed ViPER4Arise, but I don't even use it. ElementalX has this "Audio high performance mode" that should enhance the DAC's working mode and I keep it activated. I stumbled upon that Ainur mod a few months ago, but I didn't bother trying it. Is it worth it?
Now, back on topic (well, not really)... I'm about to pull the trigger on the EMI CI880. Should I? You decide!


----------



## Holypal (Aug 28, 2017)

Why Knowledge Zenith still doesn't have an official web page?


ustinj said:


> So the ZS6 is the same innards as zs5 but with a more premium casing. Perhaps the aluminum housing can change the sound a bit.
> 
> Looking forward to the ZS7 with CA logo next!



These are also different:


----------



## groucho69

peskypesky said:


> Yeah, so far the only music that isn't sounding great with my Benjie S5/KZ ZS5 rig is classical music and some 70s-era prog.
> 
> Even when I boost the volume all the way, the sound is anemic.
> 
> Hoping that a FiiO A3 helps with that.



Did for me.


----------



## vladstef

As far as I can spot, these appear to be all of the differences between ZS5 and ZS6:

Metal vs plastic shells (plus different colors)
Replaced vent lines on the seam to semi-open back (has to have massive impact to the overall sound), keeps the front vent
Adds 3 metal screws to the backplate
Different bore - base of the bore is narrower and different mesh on the ending
Minor design changes - front shell next to nozzle has 1 more layer, might improve ergonomics, slightly different housing where connector is - squared off vs rounded
I could've missed something, there are some fine differences. I think that the biggest impact on the sound will not come from switching plastic for metal but the change in venting. I could be wrong here because it is possible that these 3 large openings are actually just for the looks and are hiding some very small vent holes, but this is highly unlikely.


----------



## jant71

The red looks nice  The new colors and screws and slicing off from the rounded cable connector part of the ZS5 all improvements in the looks dept. to me! The three vents could have been with a slightly longer one in the middle if it didn't hurt the tuning(as speculated they may not be totally opened as much as it looks it looks). Of course they seem to look less plasticky which is yet another improvement in the looks dept.


----------



## trumpethead

manjunath1915 said:


> Mine same here too i am liking tuning of zse more than zs5 its all about the bass in zse its so funny than rock zircon my first impression was same but i experienced real burn in after i kept it for 5hrs playing songs



Im loving the sound of my zse when properly amped and a little burn in...like almost as much as zs5...almost...


----------



## earthalucy (Aug 29, 2017)

I have already placed an order on Aliexpress. It is pre-order now and it could be shipped in 10 of September. I’d recommend DD-Audio Store on Aliexpress as the sales Lillian is so nice and with good communication. They will also promise to send us with another special gift for this new KZ ZS6.* 
*


trumpethead said:


> Im loving the sound of my zse when properly amped and a little burn in...like almost as much as zs5...almost...


Comparing the price, ZSE could be higher recommendation. haha


----------



## trumpethead

eaglesgift said:


> Red or black for me.



I want red and black if they are under 30 bucks each...need reviews though..


----------



## TheWongWrong

I mean, am I the only one who think they look worse than the ZS5? °~°"


----------



## maxxevv

trumpethead said:


> Im loving the sound of my zse when properly amped and a little burn in...like almost as much as zs5...almost...



My experience is that the ZSE is a little source sensitive.  But yes, with a well matched source, its really an enjoyable earphone for most music genre's that do not have a strong emphasis on details. 
Not so great if the DAC / Amp output does not match it well. 

Forgot to add, its loves to be played loud !


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Aug 29, 2017)

of course I'm late to the party

zs5 finally in after a month in transit










Starline tips are not as translucent and are softer than the ones my ZST colorfuls came with.  Haven't even put on the cable yet.  Will be back later with impressions while y'all hype up the zs6 lmao


----------



## crabdog

Price drop on ZS6, $37 if you order with the app: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...Microphone-for-Iphone-Mobile/32828061649.html


----------



## ricemanhk

Strange that ES3 is GB only and still no sign of ZS6 anywhere on taobao.  I wonder if really overseas customers are more than local chinese customers...??  although I think this thread has alot to do with it LOL


----------



## esfrost

So tempting, but I’m still waiting for Gearbest.


----------



## HiFiChris

I'm wondering if there will ever be a special Massdrop x Knowledge Zenith edition - probably with one of their higher-end models in the future. Given Knowledge Zenith's popularity, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that eventually happen.


----------



## ustinj

Also just so I don't appear bitter -- I thought the sound of the ZS5 was quite nice. A "musical" tuning at a good price, esp. now that it's hovering ~$20 . Would be a great recommend but I'd prefer if they used their own shell design for comfort purposes as well as maintaining dignity.


HiFiChris said:


> I'm wondering if there will ever be a special Massdrop x Knowledge Zenith edition - probably with one of their higher-end models in the future. Given Knowledge Zenith's popularity, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that eventually happen.


maybe if MD wants to cut their ties with CA. If I were kb I'd be pretty disappointed in MD to allow a blatant knockoff of their IEMs to collaborate. And also, I get the feeling that KZ is more about releasing model after model rather than spending a longer amount of time on one IEM


----------



## -sandro-

Lowest price for zs5 now?


----------



## snip3r77

HiFiChris said:


> I'm wondering if there will ever be a special Massdrop x Knowledge Zenith edition - probably with one of their higher-end models in the future. Given Knowledge Zenith's popularity, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that eventually happen.


I think it'd sell 10k pcs easily


----------



## crabdog

-sandro- said:


> Lowest price for zs5 now?


Try this code (for ZS6 only). I'm not sure if it stacks with the app discount but worth a try.


----------



## Keller2

HiFiChris said:


> I'm wondering if there will ever be a special Massdrop x Knowledge Zenith edition - probably with one of their higher-end models in the future. Given Knowledge Zenith's popularity, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that eventually happen.



Doubt it. Massdrop makes money on selling more expensive stuff because they can take a larger share of the savings as revenue. 

KZ is cheap as it is, and they already sell at what i imagine is the lowest price they can, atleast a month or so after the initial release.


----------



## Fox2twenty




----------



## vladstef

Just got Sony MH1c (around 18USD) and the first thing I did was compare it to ZS5. I can finally say that ZS5 is not an untouchable king in this price range. So, ZS5 has massively better sub and more details in the highs, but MH1 has more detailed and just better mids, more natural highs. Sound stage wider on ZS5. MH1 sounds much more pleasant with focus on the lush mids.
I can definitely see people preferring one or the other in terms of sound. Comfort is miles better on MH1 due to small size, but the cable has to go, and this is not just a small problem. Similar to memory wire in ZS5, except this is much harder to do. Build quality is just not comparable, small metal body vs big plastic one.

Glad to see ZS6 already dropping in price, that was quick. If ZS6 improves mids compared to ZS5 it will be a must buy for practically anyone.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> Just got Sony MH1c (around 18USD) and the first thing I did was compare it to ZS5. I can finally say that ZS5 is not an untouchable king in this price range. So, ZS5 has massively better sub and more details in the highs, but MH1 has more detailed and just better mids, more natural highs. Sound stage wider on ZS5. MH1 sounds much more pleasant with focus on the lush mids.
> I can definitely see people preferring one or the other in terms of sound. Comfort is miles better on MH1 due to small size, but the cable has to go, and this is not just a small problem. Similar to memory wire in ZS5, except this is much harder to do. Build quality is just not comparable, small metal body vs big plastic one.
> 
> Glad to see ZS6 already dropping in price, that was quick. If ZS6 improves mids compared to ZS5 it will be a must buy for practically anyone.



Agreed. The metal is a good upgrade.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Okay, after a night of listening to the ZS5s on my Magni 2, here's my early verdict.

Holy ***.
No other chi-fIEMs I have come close.  ZS5 is l e g i t.

The BASS.  A wee bit bloated, but satisfyingly fun.  It's not just a hump of midbass, there's a subbass that is capable of pulling out that RUMBLE.
Not sibilant at all to my ears either.  But the highs are all here.  Not lacking at all.  And it makes everything sound crystal clear.
And you know how KZs always couldn't really get the midrange right?  They might not be quite HD 6x0 level midrange, but they're pretty much spot on to my ears.

I feel like I could stow away my ZS3, ZST, ED9, ATR, and even Piston 3s forever.  That's how happy I am with the ZS5's sound.

They're pretty friggen big in my ears and cause minor irritation after a long listening session, but it's totally worth it.

So far no QC issues.  I even accidentally blasted them to max volume on my One M9 for a second or two.

----------------

I really need to stop spending money ESPECIALLY on IEMs.  But if the ZS6 is a metal enclosed ZS5 with the same sound, I might pick one up with one of the new metal silver cables for that better and weightier build.


----------



## eaglesgift

I find female vocals very prominents with ZS5s so I really don't understand why other people are saying the mids are recessed? What should I be listening out for?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

eaglesgift said:


> I find female vocals very prominents with ZS5s so I really don't understand why other people are saying the mids are recessed? What should I be listening out for?



I've been listening to female vocals all night and they seem just right.  I love my midrange too.  Guess it's all subjective.


----------



## 1clearhead

trumpethead said:


> Im loving the sound of my zse when properly amped and a little burn in...like almost as much as zs5...almost...


+1 Yup, they come mighty close for such a hugh price difference.


----------



## mrjimmybob

Middle said:


> Their prices are low enough to get people to bite. Release the new hotness every two months and people bite again and again before they realize they've spent $100+ on entry level earphones. This is KZ's design.



True, but you say, 'entry level earphones', as if they were not good. To my ears the KZ models I have (ZS3, ZST and ATE) are just as good as much more expensive ones. I prefer them to say my Audio technica IM50 that cost me over $80 or the Kinera H3 that were $99 or my Kef M200 (mainly due to the fit). 

But in any case, I am constantly going back to the cheap 'entry level' KZ earphones when I have much more expensive models. It is rather hard to keep up, but as long as they sound good and are cheap I will probably keep buying them. As soon as they start churning out rubish they will go on my "don't go there list".

If someone makes an earphone for $10 that is as good as one that some other company is selling for $200 it only goes to show that one company is overpricing and selling not based on quality or specs but on other issues like brand or just because they can. And saying that you cannot compare a $10 earphone to a $500 one, because they are different leagues is giving power to the overpricing companies and denying reality, after all, we all want a good sounding earphone, the price is just a limiting factor that some of us have and others don't. If they sound the same, are as comfortable and come with similar accesories then they are comparable. If one is $10 and the other is $700 and they are comparable then shame on the company that is selling for $800. Shame. On. You. Sorry for the rant. Keep it up!


----------



## cirodts

Help me connect the cable to sz5, how do i put the left and right of the wire to match that of the drivers? Or otherwise-


----------



## vector84

mrjimmybob said:


> True, but you say, 'entry level earphones', as if they were not good. To my ears the KZ models I have (ZS3, ZST and ATE) are just as good as much more expensive ones. I prefer them to say my Audio technica IM50 that cost me over $80 or the Kinera H3 that were $99 or my Kef M200 (mainly due to the fit).
> 
> But in any case, I am constantly going back to the cheap 'entry level' KZ earphones when I have much more expensive models. It is rather hard to keep up, but as long as they sound good and are cheap I will probably keep buying them. As soon as they start churning out rubish they will go on my "don't go there list".
> 
> If someone makes an earphone for $10 that is as good as one that some other company is selling for $200 it only goes to show that one company is overpricing and selling not based on quality or specs but on other issues like brand or just because they can. And saying that you cannot compare a $10 earphone to a $500 one, because they are different leagues is giving power to the overpricing companies and denying reality, after all, we all want a good sounding earphone, the price is just a limiting factor that some of us have and others don't. If they sound the same, are as comfortable and come with similar accesories then they are comparable. If one is $10 and the other is $700 and they are comparable then shame on the company that is selling for $800. Shame. On. You. Sorry for the rant. Keep it up!


Economies of scale - without those $800 products to continue to pave the way, those $10 products would never have existed either.
They also wouldn't exist if we didn't keep buying ...


----------



## vector84

cirodts said:


> Help me connect the cable to sz5, how do i put the left and right of the wire to match that of the drivers? Or otherwise-


Both those pictures show them inserted the same way (the correct way) ... ?

But the lettering should face outside, the socket and plug are keyed too:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


----------



## cirodts

vector84 said:


> Both those pictures show them inserted the same way (the correct way) ... ?
> 
> But the lettering should face outside, the socket and plug are keyed too:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


An image shows the L on the wire and not the driver, the other image shows the L on wire and driver, what is the correct way?


----------



## vector84

cirodts said:


> An image shows the L on the wire and not the driver, the other image shows the L on wire and driver, what is the correct way?


Both show the cables inserted the same way...? 

If you mean which is accurate - the one with the lettering on the shell (second image).  The first is a CGI render.


----------



## cirodts

Are there any sound differences in the 2 ways to connect?


----------



## CYoung234

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I used to boost the gain too, as I'm running ElementalX and EXKM as well, but that increases the background noise as well, so I decided to roll back to +0 dB. As for other mods, I flashed ViPER4Arise, but I don't even use it. ElementalX has this "Audio high performance mode" that should enhance the DAC's working mode and I keep it activated. I stumbled upon that Ainur mod a few months ago, but I didn't bother trying it. Is it worth it?
> Now, back on topic (well, not really)... I'm about to pull the trigger on the EMI CI880. Should I? You decide!



Well, given your observations on your Urbanfuns versus mine, I am not sure you should trust my recommendation, but yes, they are very nice. I just find my ZS5 and Urbanfun to have larger soundstages with more air and more lifelike sound for classical music. Still evaluating though, so my opinion will probably change. Vidal seems to prefer the EMI, for example, saying it is somewhere in between the ZS5, which he feels is less neutral and the Urbanfun, which he describes as neutral.


----------



## mrjimmybob

cirodts said:


> Help me con
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To connect the ear piece to the cable check that the cable form factor aligns that of the ear piece.

See this image:





The cable has a similar shape. Also the cable has the marking L and R on the side of each connector.

Sorry for the crappy drawing.

Hope it helps.


----------



## Holypal (Aug 29, 2017)

cirodts said:


> Are there any sound differences in the 2 ways to connect?



From: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php 
When using two (or more) speakers, polarity defines how these speakers interact with each other. Speaker polarity then becomes a very important parameter to check.


----------



## -sandro-

vladstef said:


> Just got Sony MH1c (around 18USD) and the first thing I did was compare it to ZS5. I can finally say that ZS5 is not an untouchable king in this price range. So, ZS5 has massively better sub and more details in the highs, but MH1 has more detailed and just better mids, more natural highs. Sound stage wider on ZS5. MH1 sounds much more pleasant with focus on the lush mids.
> I can definitely see people preferring one or the other in terms of sound. Comfort is miles better on MH1 due to small size, but the cable has to go, and this is not just a small problem. Similar to memory wire in ZS5, except this is much harder to do. Build quality is just not comparable, small metal body vs big plastic one.
> 
> Glad to see ZS6 already dropping in price, that was quick. If ZS6 improves mids compared to ZS5 it will be a must buy for practically anyone.



Finally a comparison with the MH1C which is my favourite of all time. Not sure if to ger more ZSes if the MH1C still competes. Maybe something similar to those but with better details? Einsear T2 maybe?


----------



## Holypal (Aug 29, 2017)

Can anyone confirm this cable can be used on ZS5/ZS6? It looks very nice. 4 shares each side and twisted, for $8.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 29, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> Finally a comparison with the MH1C which is my favourite of all time. Not sure if to ger more ZSes if the MH1C still competes. Maybe something similar to those but with better details? Einsear T2 maybe?


I like MH1c much more than ZS5 all things considered, but I do understand that this is more of a personal preference than objective conclusion. With MH1c music sounds like it should, while ZS5 messes with the highs way too much for my taste resulting in moderately unnatural violins for example. ZS5 punches back with raw technicalities like sound stage and crisp detailed highs with massive bass. So, if you want more details, ZS5 does it better than MH1, not by much though.
For the real upgrade, I'd wait a generation or two of KZ flagships, if they keep pushing like they have recently. ZS6 looks very interesting to me, but who knows what ZSR will do with fewer drivers. We are talking about few months only.


----------



## trumpethead

nhlean96 said:


> Finally received my ZSE, OOTB they're very good. V-shape sound signature, punchy bass and goes deep. I found the bass responsive to tip rolling, the starline tips offer the cleanest bass while the the one comes with ED9 is boomier and fun sounding bass.
> Lower-mid range is recessed, vocal lacks some warmth. Overall mid-range is just OK, toward the bright side. There are some upper-mid peaks, so the sibilance is kinda annoying.
> Treble is fine, with nice detail, no roll-off at all (tested with a Frequency Sweeping track). This is a step up from the ATE, which have rolled-off treble.
> The soundstage is fine, wide with good instrument seperation, but lacks some depth because the lack of warmth. Compared to the ATE, the ZSE is wider but lack the 3D feeling.





loomisjohnson said:


> i think the zse does certain things very well, esp. midrange + low end is  well controlled. however i think they need an amp to reach their potential and their fit is awkward for me. someone who is more brightness-phobic would appreciate these.



Thanks, I agree, however sound quality including bass does increase exponentially with amping while still maintaining the amazing mids..The starline tips are starting to soften which is making the fit more bearable and I think Im beginning to prefer them over my ZS5 and that's saying a lot for me. I value your opinion that's why I asked..Thanks


trumpethead said:


> : I
> 
> Why, Please?





loomisjohnson said:


> i think the zse does certain things very well, esp. midrange + low end is  well controlled. however i think they need an amp to reach their potential and their fit is awkward for me. someone who is more brightness-phobic would appreciate these.


----------



## cirodts

[QUOTE = "mrjimmybob, post: 13687486, member: 345951"] Per collegare il pezzo dell'orecchio al cavo verificare che il fattore di forma del cavo allinea quello del pezzo dell'orecchio.

Visualizza questa immagine:





Il cavo ha una forma simile. Anche il cavo ha il contrassegno L e R sul lato di ogni connettore.

Ci dispiace per il disegno di **** ty.

Spero che aiuta. [/ QUOTE]
grazie mille


mrjimmybob said:


> To connect the ear piece to the cable check that the cable form factor aligns that of the ear piece.
> 
> See this image:
> 
> ...


thanks very  much


----------



## cirodts

Holypal said:


> From: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php
> When using two (or more) speakers, polarity defines how these speakers interact with each other. Speaker polarity then becomes a very important parameter to check.


thanks very  much


----------



## Carrow (Aug 29, 2017)

Got approx eleventy billion notifications overnight ITT, of course a new model has dropped.

e: seems like the ZS6 is simply a redesigned ZS5 with no change to the internals, gonna pass on that.


----------



## loomisjohnson

trumpethead said:


> Thanks, I agree, however sound quality including bass does increase exponentially with amping while still maintaining the amazing mids..The starline tips are starting to soften which is making the fit more bearable and I think Im beginning to prefer them over my ZS5 and that's saying a lot for me. I value your opinion that's why I asked..Thanks


the zse, like the zs5, does improve very significantly with amping. my very personal bias, however, is against using an amp, at least with cheap iems--since i do most of my listening on go, it's not always convenient to carry around more gear + it seems kinda incongruous to augment a $10 iem with, say, a $100 acoutrement. as for the fit of the zse, it's not so much the tips but the shape; others with different anatomy may find 'em more comfortable.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Holypal said:


> Can anyone conform this cable can be used on ZS5/ZS6? It looks very nice. 4 shares each side and twisted, for $8.


I can check when I get home this evening if no one else can.  Have the ZS5 with me, just not the cable.  Since it doesn't have the obscure angle that the regular ZST cable does, it might be possible.  I do know they the socket of the cable is keyed the same as the ZS5


----------



## maxxevv (Aug 29, 2017)

I do agree on the amping part.

Generally, we are still talking about budget earphones here. And it only makes sense to add an amp to them if you already have them.  Else its pretty odd in the value preposition chain of things !  

That being said, basic but decent amps on a budget with budget earphones do exist now though.  Stuff such as the Walnut F1.  Under US$30/-. 

But I still prefer to keep it simple and phones such as the LG G6 and V20 / V30 do come with quality DAC's and built in amps, so think they make more compelling carry around kits for budget or even most of the less power hungry but top-shelf earphones generally.
The ZSE plays very well when the volume gets cranked and also using a neutral (with slight bias towards bright)  source as with my G6 even though it does not activate its "High-Impedance" mode that ramps up the amplifier gain. Not so good when the source is less than convincing, as with my laptop jack. 

It needs a better, less microphobic cable that's for sure. The other fit aspects are more subjective IMO.


----------



## vladstef

I agree that the best thing for budget focused audiophiles is a smartphone with good output, like LG V20. This way you get a lot of extra value out of your smartphone purchase plus it's easy to carry around. V20 can competently drive 300Ohm headphones and some people say even 600Ohm earbuds. If anyone here has V20 or G6 with quad dac, does ZS5 trigger high gain mode? I think that ZS5 would greatly benefit from it.


----------



## Fox2twenty

maxxevv said:


> I do agree on the amping part.
> 
> Generally, we are still talking about budget earphones here. And it only makes sense to add an amp to them if you already have them.  Else its pretty odd in the value preposition chain of things !
> 
> ...



I love this thread.. Now I'm going to look into the Walnut F1.


----------



## danimoca

iPhone IEM said:


> I love this thread.. Now I'm going to look into the Walnut F1.



My wallet hates it.


----------



## Fox2twenty

danimoca said:


> My wallet hates it.



Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## maxxevv

vladstef said:


> If anyone here has V20 or G6 with quad dac, does ZS5 trigger high gain mode? I think that ZS5 would greatly benefit from it.



It will not. My XE800 is rated at 50 Ohms doesn't activate it, much less the ZS5. 

Its really the DAC output rather than the amp that makes the magic on the ZSE ( I don't have the ZS5).  It plays beautifully smooth even when I ramp up the volume to 40% ( I'm usually happy at 25~32% ) of the G6's volume controls. And that's plenty loud to my ears.


----------



## maxxevv

iPhone IEM said:


> I love this thread.. Now I'm going to look into the Walnut F1.



There's a thread on it over at the portable amps forum.  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/walnut-f1.858439/


----------



## Fox2twenty

maxxevv said:


> It will not. My XE800 is rated at 50 Ohms doesn't activate it, much less the ZS5.
> 
> Its really the DAC output rather than the amp that makes the magic on the ZSE ( I don't have the ZS5).  It plays beautifully smooth even when I ramp up the volume to 40% ( I'm usually happy at 25~32% ) of the G6's volume controls. And that's plenty loud to my ears.



Nice review


----------



## Fox2twenty

maxxevv said:


> There's a thread on it over at the portable amps forum.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/walnut-f1.858439/



Awesome, thanks.


----------



## vector84

Holypal said:


> Can anyone confirm this cable can be used on ZS5/ZS6? It looks very nice. 4 shares each side and twisted, for $8.





thebigredpolos said:


> I can check when I get home this evening if no one else can.  Have the ZS5 with me, just not the cable.  Since it doesn't have the obscure angle that the regular ZST cable does, it might be possible.  I do know they the socket of the cable is keyed the same as the ZS5


I know that they can be used, but will not be a secure fit.

I believe the ZS5 plug is slightly larger (so you can use a ZST cable but you'd need some glue or something to secure it), but maybe someone with both sitting in front of them could confirm.


----------



## Francisk (Aug 29, 2017)

Holypal said:


> Can anyone confirm this cable can be used on ZS5/ZS6? It looks very nice. 4 shares each side and twisted, for $8.


I have the same cable paired to my ZS5 so yes, I can confirm that this cable works perfectly with the ZS5 so it should work with the ZS6 because they use the same cables. I don't have the ZS6 to verify though. Btw, just remember to insert the cable with the correct polarity or all hell breaks lose.


----------



## Viber (Aug 29, 2017)

People who want to buy the bluetooth cable for the ZS3:
Just buy *an original set* of QCY QY8.

Just got them from Gearbest and i already prefer them over the ZS3.  Same bass quantity,yet faster bass, more treble presence and mids are almost a draw.
Glad i didn't buy that ZS3 BT cable.


----------



## Holypal

Francisk said:


> I have the same cable paired to my ZS5 so yes, I can confirm that this cable works perfectly with the ZS5 so it should work with the ZS6 because they use the same cables. I don't have the ZS6 to verify though. Btw, just remember to insert the cable with the correct polarity or all hell breaks lose.



Thanks.  If it fits ZS5, I think ZS6 also works. 

Do you like the cable? How about the build and comfort? Is it heavy?


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, is the cable on sale for the current aliexpress event?


----------



## Francisk

Holypal said:


> Thanks.  If it fits ZS5, I think ZS6 also works.
> 
> Do you like the cable? How about the build and comfort? Is it heavy?


Yes, I have a few different ZS5 silver cables and I like this one the most. The cable is slightly heavier than the older version of KZ silver cable but definitely have more cores. It has good quality connectors and the 3.5mm plug is built very similar to my FitEar TG334 Oyaide plug. This cable is truly a bargain.


----------



## cirodts

I have a lg v10 with dac sabre and the zs5 have a wonderful sound, then I connect also zs5 with AR-M2 an excellent sound.
Anyway, to activate amplifier on the v10 we need a headphone of 50 homs up.


----------



## cirodts

Is there any system, some way that makes the zs5 even better?


----------



## vector84

A quick Google search suggests you might be able to use an extension cable to trigger high impedance mode on the LG V10 ?
(plug it in alone first then plug whatever into it)

Otherwise you'd need either an adapter with either an in-line resistor (effects sound profile) or a voltage divider (consumes a lot of power and reduces gain enormously) I think?

Or root of course.


And please turn your volume way down before mucking with such things!  Wouldn't want to end up with hearing damage!


----------



## robervaul

There will be a new ZS3 hybrid too next month along with ZS6 and ZSR the following month which should be a 3 drivers design.


----------



## Griffith

cirodts said:


> Is there any system, some way that makes the zs5 even better?



I'm not sure about the V5 but there are plenty of small USB DAC/AMPs that improve the sound of mobile devices, though obviously that does come at the cost of convenience. I'm personally waiting for an SMSL Idea DAC/AMP to arrive for that purpose though I can't speak yet of how much it will improve the sound.


----------



## Sylmar

As much as I love the more sophisticated sound of the newer KZ's, I still can't help feeling sorry not having bought more of the KZ ED8's. It seems they unfortunately are out of production. I really love these cannons from time to time.


----------



## cqtek (Aug 29, 2017)

From the AE App KZ ZS6 --> 28,60€ (US $33.73)





https://es.aliexpress.com/item/100-...108.1000016.1.47693981VaM9qw&isOrigTitle=true

Are they original?


----------



## cirodts

ok Will it improve with this cable?
https://www.amazon.it/KZ-ZST-argent...ie=UTF8&qid=1504032770&sr=8-5&keywords=kz+zs5


----------



## Viber (Aug 29, 2017)

I literally change my opinion about the ZS5 after every song i try them with. What a trip   No wonder there are so many different opinions about them...

First time i'm actually speechless about budget iems.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 29, 2017)

cirodts said:


> ok Will it improve with this cable?
> https://www.amazon.it/KZ-ZST-argent...ie=UTF8&qid=1504032770&sr=8-5&keywords=kz+zs5


Most people seem to agree that the upgrade cables will reduce microphonics.

As to whether they'll effect sound for you - that's really something you'd probably have to decide for yourself 


Personally I'd be more interested in one of the gold cables if I were in the market for such things... just because they look awesome!


----------



## NeonHD

Lol today one of the filters on my ED9 came loose and fell out of my pocket on the bus, I thought it was long gone when it rolled beneath the bus door but thank god the bristles on the door stopped it


----------



## Griffith

cirodts said:


> ok Will it improve with this cable?
> https://www.amazon.it/KZ-ZST-argent...ie=UTF8&qid=1504032770&sr=8-5&keywords=kz+zs5



I own a couple of ZST and a normal and silver cable and I've tried both models with both cables back to back. Here's what I can tell you:

There is a very small difference that is barely perceptible at some frequencies. With the silver cable I noticed that the ZST was slightly less harsh and easier to listen because it had a slightly less aggravating spike on the higher frequencies. The cable itself is also of better quality than the stock one, so you get an upgrade in that regard.

As for the sound quality though the improvement, or difference, was barely perceptible to me with two units and switching between them back and forth very quickly. I would advise that if you purchase the cable you do so for comfort or cable-quality reasons rather than sound quality ones.


----------



## cirodts

Thanks for that but I still have a slight improvement in sound.


----------



## colgateam

cqtek said:


> From the AE App KZ ZS6 --> 28,60€ (US $33.73)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't know, but they are the ones I ended up ordering because they were the cheapest and have store coupon also. Was like $51 NZD all up


----------



## vladstef

A bit out of focus, but I haven't seen real photos of black ones here.
Also, on the Aliexpress app, there are 2 shops offering ZS6 for around 32 euros (these shops are not the famous ones, so...careful).
I bet, these will cost 25$ regularly in about a month.


----------



## ru9

Holypal said:


> Can anyone confirm this cable can be used on ZS5/ZS6? It looks very nice. 4 shares each side and twisted, for $8.



Yes, this can be used for ZS5. The picture below show that the white portion just above the 2 pins has been removed for deeper insertion of the pins.  Got this cable and is starting to turn green just after 2 months use.


----------



## Slater

ru9 said:


> Yes, this can be used for ZS5. The picture below show that the white portion just above the 2 pins has been removed for deeper insertion of the pins.  Got this cable and is starting to turn green just after 2 months use.



Any better photos of what you're describing? Closeups, etc?

Can't quite make it out in that pic.


----------



## maxxevv

vector84 said:


> A quick Google search suggests you might be able to use an extension cable to trigger high impedance mode on the LG V10 ?
> (plug it in alone first then plug whatever into it)
> 
> Otherwise you'd need either an adapter with either an in-line resistor (effects sound profile) or a voltage divider (consumes a lot of power and reduces gain enormously) I think?
> ...



You can, but its generally not a good idea.  

High impedance mode just means more power will be sent out through the jack.  If your low impedance earphones can't take it, it will just mean damaging it.


----------



## mixolyd

Anyone got a source for a good case for the ZS5?  They're a bit awkward for a small case with the memory wire but I don't want something bulky.


----------



## ru9 (Aug 29, 2017)




----------



## mixolyd

ru9 said:


>


Ok that is a bit gross.   Now we know why they plumped for green with the ZS6!


----------



## stillWanted (Aug 29, 2017)

mixolyd said:


> Anyone got a source for a good case for the ZS5?  They're a bit awkward for a small case with the memory wire but I don't want something bulky.



Should receive this leather case in a few days https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-...e-Case-Headphone-Accessories/32819742511.html looks good imho and plenty of space for the ZS5 (tho personally I removed the memory wire)


----------



## Slater

ru9 said:


>



Wow, that is a microscopic ID on that tip. It looks like 2mm or smaller!

What tips are those?


----------



## ru9

slaterlovesspam said:


> Wow, that is a microscopic ID on that tip. It looks like 2mm or smaller!
> 
> What tips are those?



Klipsch Ovals


----------



## mixolyd

stillWanted said:


> Should receive this leather case in a few days https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/New-...e-Case-Headphone-Accessories/32819742511.html looks good imho and plenty of space for the ZS5 (tho personally I removed the memory wire)



I had my eye on that one - much handier to have a flap than a zip and it looks a good size.


----------



## Slater

mixolyd said:


> Anyone got a source for a good case for the ZS5?  They're a bit awkward for a small case with the memory wire but I don't want something bulky.



I use these cases for larger IEMs with good results:

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_469344.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HZS...se-Bag-Headphone-Accessories/32811123306.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...eadphone-Accessories-For-all/32784999350.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fib...e-Earbuds-Box-Carrying-Pouch/32799837465.html


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I bought 7 of these because adding 8 forced me to pay an extra 2 bucks for shipping.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Who...eadphone-Earbuds-memory-Card/32652418787.html

Sixty cents a pop, semi-hard, zipper, and little pouch for eartips.  One of these has my ZS5 + Bluetooth Cable + Eartips + Regular Cable and it fits it all.


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> I bought 7 of these because adding 8 forced me to pay an extra 2 bucks for shipping.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Who...eadphone-Earbuds-memory-Card/32652418787.html
> 
> Sixty cents a pop, semi-hard, zipper, and little pouch for eartips.  One of these has my ZS5 + Bluetooth Cable + Eartips + Regular Cable and it fits it all.



Those are nice too, and I have a crap ton of those round ones. The only downside is that they're a little small, so I only use them for IEMs without memory cables and with smallish bodies. Something like MEMT X5, Rock Zircon, KZ EDSE, etc.

The cases I posted above are about 1/2" taller, so they allow breathing room for bigger IEMs like the ZS5, ZST, ZS3, Magaosi K3, QKZ W1 Pro, etc. The other advantage is the extra room allows memory wires to maintain the shape you wear them at, without having to reshape the memory wires (a requirement to fit in the small cases).

I'm surprised no one mentioned metal tins, like Altoids containers (which work great too, are very pocketable, and protect the IEM well). I also have a few heavy-duty round metal tins that were travel-sized tea containers:


----------



## snip3r77

slaterlovesspam said:


> Those are nice too, and I have a crap ton of those round ones. The only downside is that they're a little small, so I only use them for IEMs without memory cables and with smallish bodies. Something like MEMT X5, Rock Zircon, KZ EDSE, etc.
> 
> I would like to have something like this. Any idea where to purchase?


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> I would like to have something like this. Any idea where to purchase?



Any hardware store, walmart, harbor freight, etc. Check around the tool isle, hardware isle, and the fishing/sporting goods isle.

I've also seen them in different sizes at arts and crafts stores, like Michael's, Hobby Lobby, etc.

There's also obviously online too - ebay, Amazon, Aliexpress, etc.


----------



## maxxevv

For metal tins, would suggest adding a layer of foam pad/sheet inside.


----------



## NeonHD

SomeTechNoob said:


> I bought 7 of these because adding 8 forced me to pay an extra 2 bucks for shipping.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Who...eadphone-Earbuds-memory-Card/32652418787.html
> 
> Sixty cents a pop, semi-hard, zipper, and little pouch for eartips.  One of these has my ZS5 + Bluetooth Cable + Eartips + Regular Cable and it fits it all.



LOL recently I've been trying to bid on those suckers for a cent each on eBay, currently getting no luck as everyone seems to bid so high


----------



## NeonHD

I think you meant to post that without the quote, but with a quick eBay search I got this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-15-24-36...able-Organizer-Storage-Box-Case-/142201540294

The dividers can also be removed so you can adjust the size.

But wow that's actually a really good way to sort your IEMs.


----------



## NeonHD (Aug 30, 2017)

In addition I think these organizers would be another great way to sort your IEMs or any cable.











http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Tr...oll-Up-Bag-Storage-Travel-Pouch-/291852699383 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fashion-Tra...n-Bag-Case-Pouch-Digital-Gadget-/361544412054


----------



## I2ecreate

I'm loving my KS5's, but I mainly got them since they seemed like the best value. 

I find the high's a bit too sharp compared to my M50's. I notice a lot more details with the ZS5's though. Just an amateur's view.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I2ecreate said:


> I'm loving my KS5's, but I mainly got them since they seemed like the best value.
> 
> I find the high's a bit too sharp compared to my M50's. I notice a lot more details with the ZS5's though. Just an amateur's view.



On the contrary I find the M50s bassy with very unimpressive highs and clarity.

Just depends on what kind of sound signature you're used to.


----------



## sghound

x 10

yep with dat fake bass hump, they're fatiguing.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 30, 2017)

Guys, it looks like KZ decided to place both BA drivers in the nozzle. Also, small dynamic no longer has a larger hole on the board (this could just be marketing photos and not representative of the real product, but 2 BA in the nozzle is probably how it is now).
This looks a lot like the 1more Tripple Driver with 2 BA drivers in the nozzle and big dynamic in the back, except KZ adds a micro driver as well.
It really does look like these 3 openings on the back are fully used, we could be looking at the new sound stage champion, but lets see how bad the isolation is first.
Funny thing, notice the screws and the holes they go in, one of them next to big dynamic driver is just for that extra Campfire Andromeda look


----------



## Marc Lian

Golly, I might have to get the ZS6 too...


----------



## robervaul

vladstef said:


> Guys, it looks like KZ decided to place both BA drivers in the nozzle. Also, small dynamic no longer has a larger hole on the board (this could just be marketing photos and not representative of the real product, but 2 BA in the nozzle is probably how it is now).
> This looks a lot like the 1more Tripple Driver with 2 BA drivers in the nozzle and big dynamic in the back, except KZ adds a micro driver as well.
> It really does look like these 3 openings on the back are fully used, we could be looking at the new sound stage champion, but lets see how bad the isolation is first.
> Funny thing, notice the screws and the holes they go in, one of them next to big dynamic driver is just for that extra Campfire Andromeda look


ZS6 has electronic frequency division too


----------



## JonnyXDA

vladstef said:


> Guys, it looks like KZ decided to place both BA drivers in the nozzle. Also, small dynamic no longer has a larger hole on the board (this could just be marketing photos and not representative of the real product, but 2 BA in the nozzle is probably how it is now).
> This looks a lot like the 1more Tripple Driver with 2 BA drivers in the nozzle and big dynamic in the back, except KZ adds a micro driver as well.
> It really does look like these 3 openings on the back are fully used, we could be looking at the new sound stage champion, but lets see how bad the isolation is first.
> Funny thing, notice the screws and the holes they go in, one of them next to big dynamic driver is just for that extra Campfire Andromeda look


I think it will be easy to improve isolation by taping over 1 or more of those vents.


----------



## HiFiChris

JonnyXDA said:


> I think it will be easy to improve isolation by taping over 1 or more of those vents.



Which would however also reduce the bass, especially sub-bass.


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Guys, it looks like KZ decided to place both BA drivers in the nozzle. Also, small dynamic no longer has a larger hole on the board (this could just be marketing photos and not representative of the real product, but 2 BA in the nozzle is probably how it is now).
> This looks a lot like the 1more Tripple Driver with 2 BA drivers in the nozzle and big dynamic in the back, except KZ adds a micro driver as well.
> It really does look like these 3 openings on the back are fully used, we could be looking at the new sound stage champion, but lets see how bad the isolation is first.
> Funny thing, notice the screws and the holes they go in, one of them next to big dynamic driver is just for that extra Campfire Andromeda look



Looks like the people who started the "only 2 of the drivers are connected in the ZS5" rumors will be eating crow on this one...



Hopefully the treble isn't going to be too sharp and/or sibilant.


----------



## Slater

robervaul said:


> ZS6 has electronic frequency division too



Where did you find this out? Got a link or photo? Thanks!


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> Looks like the people who started the "only 2 of the drivers are connected in the ZS5" rumors will be eating crow on this one...
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully the treble isn't going to be too sharp and/or sibilant.



They'll still claim it's fake I'm sure. Still trying to learn how to use my measurement device so I can measure the ZS5 with the other two drivers enabled/disabled to see if they really are adding nothing. Might be somewhat pointless now, esp. since everyone has moved onto the new hotness, but I still want to check.


----------



## robervaul

slaterlovesspam said:


> Where did you find this out? Got a link or photo? Thanks!


Directly with KZ QQ.


----------



## JonnyXDA

HiFiChris said:


> Which would however also reduce the bass, especially sub-bass.


Not necessarily, in-fact a similar mod that blocks off the font port has been tested on the ZS5 and actually increases bass response.

It would also just force more air to flow through the uncovered vents.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> They'll still claim it's fake I'm sure. Still trying to learn how to use my measurement device so I can measure the ZS5 with the other two drivers enabled/disabled to see if they really are adding nothing. Might be somewhat pointless now, esp. since everyone has moved onto the new hotness, but I still want to check.



I think it would still be very relevant. We still discuss plenty of old KZ models around here, and I foresee the ZS5 still being recommended to people (for example, if someone asks for a good IEM recommendation under $20).

BTW, what's your new toy? ARTA?


----------



## B9Scrambler

slaterlovesspam said:


> I think it would still be very relevant. We still discuss plenty of old KZ models around here, and I foresee the ZS5 still being recommended to people (for example, if someone asks for a good IEM recommendation under $20).
> 
> BTW, what's your *new toy*? ARTA?



Just the cheapo DaytonAudio iMM-6. Lots of people here use it so as long as it's calibrated correctly, which it should be now, it should allow for comparable measurements. This thread in particular; https://head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-fr-measurement-database-311-iems-measured.830062/


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> Looks like the people who started the "only 2 of the drivers are connected in the ZS5" rumors will be eating crow on this one...
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully the treble isn't going to be too sharp and/or sibilant.



That infamous rant video...
Good thing that KZ is still doing their thing and don't really care about that stuff, as you can see by the micro driver position. I think that they made both BA drivers smaller than before in order to fit inside the bore. It must have a very different sound all things considered: changed BA drivers, changed driver position, opened the back plus included the cross over circuitry (I am just repeating what @robervaul said). I think we should all get hyped about this one, it's a potential game changer, perhaps it would be just by improving build quality over ZS5 and we are getting so much more than that.


----------



## HiFiChris

JonnyXDA said:


> Not necessarily, in-fact a similar mod that blocks off the font port has been tested on the ZS5 and actually increases bass response.
> 
> It would also just force more air to flow through the uncovered vents.



Covering the front vent on dynamic driver in-ears results in an increased bass response whereas covering the rear vent will reduce sub-bass levels.


----------



## Ynot1

robervaul said:


> ZS6 has electronic frequency division too



That must be fancy marketing speak for passive first order crossovers.


----------



## esfrost

One more thing that is bugging me, this might not be so important to some, but for me, it is. Do we actually have any info about the shell? Is it really going to be metal? Okay there is a short discription where someone mentiones that his source says it is a metal shell, and okay there are these bolts that we can see on the pictures, but are there any “official” spec that clearly states this? I really want it to be metal.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 30, 2017)

I just found this slightly weird thing on the KZ official aliexpress store, it's about ZS5.
It looks like they made a revision and decided to put both BA in the bore. I though I was going crazy for a moment questioning whether one of the BA was even in the main body.

Maybe the safest thing to assume about ZS6 is absolutely nothing at this point.










And here is the original one:


Spoiler: ZS5 v1


----------



## groucho69

vladstef said:


> I just found this slightly weird thing on the KZ official aliexpress store, it's about ZS5.
> It looks like they made a revision and decided to put both BA in the bore. I though I was going crazy for a moment questioning whether one of the BA was even in the main body.
> 
> Maybe the safest thing to assume about ZS6 is absolutely nothing at this point.
> ...



Maybe the first pic was wrong all along?


----------



## vladstef (Aug 30, 2017)

groucho69 said:


> Maybe the first pic was wrong all along?


Nope, it wasn't. Sorry for using the photo which is frowned upon here, right now we are using it as a confirmation that there was a revision, that balanced armatures weren't always in the nozzle, that is, both of them.


Spoiler: ZS5 - proof of BA in the body


----------



## Aevum (Aug 30, 2017)

Ok...

Everyone was going nuts with the 2nd armature on the ZS5 since "its in the middle of the body, how can it make a difference, its all wrong"...

There was a period in time where a company decided to make an experiment, instead of using stairght shooting armatures they used side shooting armatures, That was the Phonak PFE 100 series, a IEM that with a single armature was able to go toe to toe with many high end IEM´s that were even double its price.
Then the Phonak 200 series came, that with a Dual armature was able to go against triple and even some Quad armature IEM´s and come out on top,

And even UE used that design for the Super.Fi 5VI which was a great IEM at a good price, later renamed as the UE600 under the logitec naming change.

Im just saying, the armature dosnt have to be right on the nuzzle, It can be all over the place and dosnt have to shoot directly, Phonak was able to make a superior IEM putting the armature further back inside the IEM and using the body acustics of the IEM itself as a tunning tool. It showed innovation and skill.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 30, 2017)

Aevum said:


> Ok...
> 
> Everyone was going nuts with the 2nd armature on the ZS5 since "its in the middle of the body, how can it make a difference, its all wrong"...
> 
> ...


Yes, and everyone here agrees, we used similar arguments when 'issue' of BA not facing the nozzle was first mentioned. This doesn't change the fact that KZ decided to change things with ZS6 and apparently ZS5 as well (do we call it ZS5 v2 now?).
This will have an effect on the sound, firstly, 2nd BA is different (smaller) now.
Perhaps KZ decided that replacing tweeter BA with another one which is a super-tweeter resulted in better sound, and positioning it is a whole new conversation. It will leave less room for the sound to go through in the nozzle, effectively having a smaller nozzle which also changes sound from DDs.


----------



## VinceHill24

here's a proof from my ZS5. It is indeed just 1 BA at the nozzle. Now i really wonder are they really changing it all in their future batches ? 

Maybe they hear those complaints of excess glue and non - existent BA ?? Hmm ...


----------



## Podster

VinceHill24 said:


> here's a proof from my ZS5. It is indeed just 1 BA at the nozzle. Now i really wonder are they really changing it all in their future batches ?
> 
> Maybe they hear those complaints of excess glue and non - existent BA ?? Hmm ...



You would think by now KZ realizes the handy dandy Chi-Fi iem lovers on HeadFi are going to crack their wares open and valid-afy I mean seriously 

I still contend for the price KZ consistently puts out a bargain product Just amazes me what you can get today $35!!


----------



## vladstef

The only issue with KZ changing ZS5 is that they give us no warning, no name change, like nothing happened. As a result, if the sound is changed in some drastic way, what happens to comparisons, how will we know whether someone really is comparing ZS6 with the old ZS5 everyone is familiar with? Also, someone who wants to buy ZS5 now has no idea what they are getting. The only way to be sure is to remove mesh and look to see what's in the nozzle (potentially damage it in the process), obviously after you've received your pair.  This behavior is not new to KZ, but it will have to be corrected if they want to become something better. The thing is, this is not a crazy demand, just make some sort of a mark when you change a product and you are all set.


----------



## Lawstorant

Just got my ZSE's from Gearbest. They are out-of-phase... 

You guys think that Gearbest would send me another pair or refund my money?


----------



## Carrow

Lawstorant said:


> Just got my ZSE's from Gearbest. They are out-of-phase...
> 
> You guys think that Gearbest would send me another pair or refund my money?



At the price I'd say it's hardly worth the refund, I think your best bet would be to explain the situation and ask them to send a replacement pair


----------



## vladstef

Lawstorant said:


> Just got my ZSE's from Gearbest. They are out-of-phase...
> 
> You guys think that Gearbest would send me another pair or refund my money?


Yeah, ask for another pair and try to fix the one you have, easiest way is to cut it at the Y split and rewire it correctly. They sent a damaged unit, you are not robbing them by fixing your first pair.


----------



## HiFiChris

vladstef said:


> I just found this slightly weird thing on the KZ official aliexpress store, it's about ZS5.
> It looks like they made a revision and decided to put both BA in the bore. I though I was going crazy for a moment questioning whether one of the BA was even in the main body.
> 
> Maybe the safest thing to assume about ZS6 is absolutely nothing at this point.
> ...



Oh boy, those people at Knowledge Zenith revise their models way too often without informing the customers about the changes - I was told the same was true for the ZS1 and ZN1 (crossovers and stuff), so this sounds very plausible.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 30, 2017)

vladstef said:


> The only issue with KZ changing ZS5 is that they give us no warning, no name change, like nothing happened. As a result, if the sound is changed in some drastic way, what happens to comparisons, how will we know whether someone really is comparing ZS6 with the old ZS5 everyone is familiar with? Also, someone who wants to buy ZS5 now has no idea what they are getting. The only way to be sure is to remove mesh and look to see what's in the nozzle (potentially damage it in the process), obviously after you've received your pair.  This behavior is not new to KZ, but it will have to be corrected if they want to become something better. The thing is, this is not a crazy demand, just make some sort of a mark when you change a product and you are all set.


While this isn't a new thing for KZ, it does seem like a pretty big failure on the part of their marketing department...

If they called it the ZS5 mk2 or ZS5s or ZS5n or something, enthusiasts would be rushing to buy a new one and see what's different instead of critiquing their lack of transparency about revisions.


----------



## Lawstorant

vladstef said:


> Yeah, ask for another pair and try to fix the one you have, easiest way is to cut it at the Y split and rewire it correctly. They sent a damaged unit, you are not robbing them by fixing your first pair.


Yeah. I'll do that. Good thing that I bought mic'd version so i can rewire them very easily. I should be done in about thirty minutes.


----------



## Skullophile

The fit kit that came with UE900s:
If @KZ Audio included a kit like this it would be nice imo. The upside is there might be less varying SQ impressions among members in their next iem if they included a kit like this. (Variance in impressions of ZS5 could also be explained by how many KZ fans are at various stages of their audiophile journey). Where we have $2 Timmy and $1000 Thomas commenting on the same Iem. The downside is it'd cost a few bucks more. Some of us have thousands of tips and some don't. But if they were high quality tips in 6 different sizes for a few bucks more I think it'd be a win and the world would almost be perfect....
Wait. The world would be perfect.


----------



## Podster

Skullophile said:


> The fit kit that came with UE900s:
> If @KZ Audio included a kit like this it would be nice imo. The upside is there might be less varying SQ impressions among members in their next iem if they included a kit like this. (Variance in impressions of ZS5 could also be explained by how many KZ fans are at various stages of their audiophile journey). Where we have $2 Timmy and $1000 Thomas commenting on the same Iem. The downside is it'd cost a few bucks more. Some of us have thousands of tips and some don't. But if they were high quality tips in 6 different sizes for a few bucks more I think it'd be a win and the world would almost be perfect....
> Wait. The world would be perfect.



If my name were not Tim this would not be so offensive LOL All my KZ's would not even come close to one pair of UE900's! But I like your plan


----------



## groucho69

Skullophile said:


> The fit kit that came with UE900s:
> If @KZ Audio included a kit like this it would be nice imo. The upside is there might be less varying SQ impressions among members in their next iem if they included a kit like this. (Variance in impressions of ZS5 could also be explained by how many KZ fans are at various stages of their audiophile journey). Where we have $2 Timmy and $1000 Thomas commenting on the same Iem. The downside is it'd cost a few bucks more. Some of us have thousands of tips and some don't. But if they were high quality tips in 6 different sizes for a few bucks more I think it'd be a win and the world would almost be perfect....
> Wait. The world would be perfect.



Wonder what the add would be? I'd pay another few $ for that. It could be an option.


----------



## Aevum

just out of curioisity, since i see you have both... 
how do the ZS5 compare to the 1more Triple ?


----------



## vladstef (Aug 30, 2017)

Aevum said:


> just out of curioisity, since i see you have both...
> how do the ZS5 compare to the 1more Triple ?


I think this is a question for me as I did mention 1more. I don't have them, I just knew about their driver configuration. I used to have Xiaomi Pro HD which I disliked and ZS5 is a huge step up in more than just the sound department. 1more Triple is comparable to ZS5 (there was a review of ZS5 that was in German which compares these 2 directly), there were a couple of people who even liked ZS5 better than 1more quad driver. Based on how much I disliked Pro HD, which is very similar to Triple Driver when it comes to sound (judging by people's opinions), I am almost certain that I'd prefer ZS5 and probably would prefer them to Quad Driver. 1more is kinda famous for value IEMs, but this includes the packaging and build quality, also, it is famous because there is a marketing campaign in the US and compared to what big names of the industry are offering, they are fine. Compared to the best of the Chi-fi budget IEMs, you get the picture already, it just isn't the same.


----------



## groucho69 (Aug 30, 2017)

Aevum said:


> just out of curioisity, since i see you have both...
> how do the ZS5 compare to the 1more Triple ?



I find the Triple smoother all round and a pleasure to listen to, but the ZS5 is just so much fun. Listening to SRV Couldn't Stand the Weather through ZuperDAC and ZS5 right now. I would not put either one in the drawer. I use them both and the KEF M200 all the time along with the AKG K7XX.


----------



## vector84

The domestic packaging for the ZS5 does include 6 different tips, doesn't it?

Life as a dirty foreigner though


----------



## sman789

cirodts said:


> I have a lg v10 with dac sabre and the zs5 have a wonderful sound, then I connect also zs5 with AR-M2 an excellent sound.
> Anyway, to activate amplifier on the v10 we need a headphone of 50 homs up.


I purchased the 100ohm adaptor and use it with my V20 whenever I need to force high impedance mode. https://penonaudio.com/3.5mm-Male-to-3.5mm-Female-Impedance-Adapter


----------



## SomeTechNoob

sman789 said:


> I purchased the 100ohm adaptor and use it with my V20 whenever I need to force high impedance mode. https://penonaudio.com/3.5mm-Male-to-3.5mm-Female-Impedance-Adapter


Doesn't this increase the output impedance by a metric ton and make the damping factor ridiculous?


----------



## Skullophile

I don't remember how many pairs of starline tips my Zs5 shipped with. The starlines shape didn't fit me so they went in the bin.
If I didnt have a bucket of tips to choose from I would've given impressions from a bad fit, and that never goes well.
That's why KZ should totally think about including a fit kit.


----------



## cirodts

had 1 more triple driver and I did not like it, closed and undefined sound, the zs5 for me are superior in everything.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I got 3 pairs total, one small & one large set in a little baggie and the medium preinstalled on the ZS5.  Small international package though.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm a fan of the medium starlines, suit my ears


----------



## vector84 (Aug 30, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Doesn't this increase the output impedance by a metric ton and make the damping factor ridiculous?


In general terms that's true, but the situation is more complex than that, especially when dealing with IEMs

high sensitivity IEMs tends to have non-linear impedance profiles - this is another major contributor to source matching issues with IEMs
the effects from non-linear impedance profiles will show up in the same sorts of tests for damping factors so they tend to get lumped together
these relationships are specific to output impedance profile, input impedance profile, resistance used, impedance profile of the resistor used and the actual implementations of the output and inputs
Generally what I'm trying to say is that you're not wrong, but if someone says a specific source/input combo sounds good with a specific resistance adapter, it's not necessarily something to immediately be discounted as an uninformed opinion when dealing with IEMs - but it will hardly ever be a global case either, just applicable to that very exact combination (and personal listening preferences).

Though the specific resistor used (tolerances as well as actual impedance profile) can also play a role, but I don't think you're likely to find really high end resistors outside of relatively premium products just because they're so obnoxious to work with.


----------



## crabdog

vladstef said:


> The only issue with KZ changing ZS5 is that they give us no warning, no name change, like nothing happened. As a result, if the sound is changed in some drastic way, what happens to comparisons, how will we know whether someone really is comparing ZS6 with the old ZS5 everyone is familiar with? Also, someone who wants to buy ZS5 now has no idea what they are getting. The only way to be sure is to remove mesh and look to see what's in the nozzle (potentially damage it in the process), obviously after you've received your pair.  This behavior is not new to KZ, but it will have to be corrected if they want to become something better. The thing is, this is not a crazy demand, just make some sort of a mark when you change a product and you are all set.


Did anyone consider that the render might be a pre-production design that never made it to retail? The KZ official store is usually the last to get new models when they are released. Just saying it's a possibility.


----------



## Slater

crabdog said:


> Did anyone consider that the render might be a pre-production design that never made it to retail? The KZ official store is usually the last to get new models when they are released. Just saying it's a possibility.



Agreed. They could have also mixed up the listing, showing an exploded diagram for the ZS6 in the ZS5 listing by accident.

We'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 31, 2017)

crabdog said:


> Did anyone consider that the render might be a pre-production design that never made it to retail? The KZ official store is usually the last to get new models when they are released. Just saying it's a possibility.





slaterlovesspam said:


> Agreed. They could have also mixed up the listing, showing an exploded diagram for the ZS6 in the ZS5 listing by accident.
> 
> We'll just have to wait and see.



The thing is, we already had promo material and no one ever saw these images of ZS5? KZ has previously changed products during the production without a warning.
We saw that new ZS6 has 2 same sized BAs in the nozzle. Same thing on the new images of ZS5 plus there is a new description about ZS5s drivers, which is: 30095 Ultra treble Balanced Armature drive X4 (2 per side). Previously, we had intermediate BA, now it's 6.4 intermediate frequency dynamic drive.
We have a few legit reasons to believe that ZS5 changed. Given how most of this info is from aliexpress and store's tragic inconsistent descriptions, both of you could be right, but I personally doubt it and I am 95% sure that ZS5 is now in its second iteration.

e: ZS5 v2 confirmed


----------



## twister6

vladstef said:


> Guys, it looks like KZ decided to place both BA drivers in the nozzle. Also, small dynamic no longer has a larger hole on the board (this could just be marketing photos and not representative of the real product, but 2 BA in the nozzle is probably how it is now).
> This looks a lot like the 1more Tripple Driver with 2 BA drivers in the nozzle and big dynamic in the back, except KZ adds a micro driver as well.
> It really does look like these 3 openings on the back are fully used, we could be looking at the new sound stage champion, but lets see how bad the isolation is first.
> Funny thing, notice the screws and the holes they go in, one of them next to big dynamic driver is just for that extra Campfire Andromeda look



Just great, first copying Campfire shell and internal sound chamber, and now adding DM5-looking vents and placing BA drivers inside the nozzle like 64 Audio.  What's next?  Opening up BA driver like in TIA...  I wonder how many drivers are going to be disconnected in this model 

KZ used to be a great company, with innovations in the design and the sound, among the best price/performance ratio Chi-Fi IEMs I reviewed in the past, but not anymore... Just sad for them.


----------



## RyanM

Aevum said:


> just out of curioisity, since i see you have both...
> how do the ZS5 compare to the 1more Triple ?



I have both and feel the need to chime in. To preface, my only previous experience with KZ is the ZS3, and while I find them decent and a good value, I was slightly underwhelmed. I feel like the Rock Zircon is the better sounding earphone at that price range (out of what I've heard). Because of this, after picking up the ZS5 (finally) for around $18 USD, I was pretty blown away. It was about 1/7 what I spent on the 1More Triple. 

In direct comparison to the The Triple:

- Bass is boomier and has better extension on the ZS5 but is more controlled and resolving on the Triple
- Width is much better on the ZS5. I would describe the soundstage as more ovular and the Triple as circular.   While the Triple has a smaller stage, it is slightly more accurate with its imaging. 
- Treble presentation to me is similiar, but I'm currently going on memory and treble is sometimes tough to recall. Id have to circle back to this. I do recall when there's a sharpness to treble and I'm sure this isnt present for either of these IEM's. Slight rolloff but a quality, tasteful presentation in regards to both. 

The build quality for the Triple is quite a bit better as is comfort. I find the ZS5 start to annoy me after about an hour or so. That will vary ear-to-ear of course. Isolation is better on the ZS5, which is something I don't find too common with universal fit plastic shells, in my experience. 

Also of note, I would consider the Fiio F5 to be more of a direct upgrade to the ZS5 in terms of presentation than the 1More Triple Driver. It's slightly more resolving than the ZS5 with a similiar ovular, very wide presentation of the stage. The bass is less boomy but the driver responds really well to EQ. It's also pretty cheap on EBay and has replaceable cables, which to me, is a must for active wear earphones. And comes with a balance cable out of box which is pretty cool, and another with iOS and Android controls (also cool).


----------



## VinceHill24

I asked KZ about that .. and yea they had a new iteration of ZS5. According to them it was since early August so it's pretty recent. I have no idea how to confirm if you're getting the original 1st version or the new iteration tho unless any brave soul willing to pry open your ZS5 nozzles screen.

So probably in future reviews ppl gonna talk about zs5 v1 and zs5 v2 then. Not like it's a new KZ thing


----------



## maxxevv

You can probably peek into the nozzle with a very bright light and maybe your handphone camera or a magnifying glass.  
Chances are you'll be able to make out the detail that way.


----------



## young59

Ohh boy I just ordered the Zs5 yesterday wonder which iteration I would get.


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2017)

twister6 said:


> Just great, first copying Campfire shell and internal sound chamber, and now adding DM5-looking vents and placing BA drivers inside the nozzle like 64 Audio.  What's next?  Opening up BA driver like in TIA...  I wonder how many drivers are going to be disconnected in this model
> 
> KZ used to be a great company, with innovations in the design and the sound, among the best price/performance ratio Chi-Fi IEMs I reviewed in the past, but not anymore... Just sad for them.



You have to admit - there's not a whole lot of innovation in the IEM 'mass consumer' market in general. Same goes for the dynamic headphone market. Sure, there are unique designs from numerous vendors, but 95% of designs from ALL companies are basically similar to one another.

I'm not saying that blatantly copying a shell or layout design is great, but capitalism is a reality.

I think KZ is still a great company. Their recent stuff is miles ahead of their early products. We need players like KZ in the market - it benefits us in a number of ways (directly and indirectly).

Also, don't forget that KZ is an ODM for other companies. It may be surprising and shocking whose IEMs are in reality made by KZ.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms (Aug 30, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> You can probably peek into the nozzle with a very bright light and maybe your handphone camera or a magnifying glass.
> Chances are you'll be able to make out the detail that way.



Yes, I was able to see through the grill without removing it using the flashlight of my phone parallel to the grill itself. My ZS5 is one month and a half "old", I got it from Gearbest and it has indeed only one BA in the nozzle.


----------



## Slater

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Yes, I was able to see through the grill without removing it using the flashlight of my phone parallel to the grill itself. My ZS5 is one month and a half "old", I got it from Gearbest and it has indeed only one BA in the nozzle.



Keep in mind that just because KZ revises a model, doesn't always guarantee the new version is "better" than the previous version. Take the ZS1 for example - the 2nd revision (ie ZS1 rev2, not ZS2) was a serious step down compared to the 1st version (ie ZS1 rev1).

Until existing ZS5 rev1 users can directly A/B the rev1 and rev2, we won't know for sure how the changes have affected things (good or bad).


----------



## twister6

slaterlovesspam said:


> You have to admit - there's not a whole lot of innovation in the IEM 'mass consumer' market in general. Same goes for the dynamic headphone market. Sure, there are unique designs from numerous vendors, but 95% of designs from ALL companies are basically similar to one another.
> 
> I'm not saying that blatantly copying a shell or layout design is great, but capitalism is a reality.
> 
> ...



That's my whole point, they know how to tune a good pair of iems.  I have reviewed and praised in the past (a number of posts in this thread) everything from ED9, ED10, ED3c, HDS1, ZN1, ZS1, and even ATE (that one kind of resembled AT stuff).  Doesn't matter that in the last year I've been reviewing mostly flagships, I still enjoy ED10 and recently gave a pair to my daughter to enjoy it with her iPhone.

Some companies need to copy the shell as part of the marketing to sell the product because they don't know how to tune the drivers.  Here, it's an opposite.  KZ knows how to tune the drivers, so why do they need to copy other shells?  I know, I'm venting cause this whole Andromeda shell clone just rubs me the wrong way...


----------



## Slater

twister6 said:


> That's my whole point, they know how to tune a good pair of iems.  I have reviewed and praised in the past (a number of posts in this thread) everything from ED9, ED10, ED3c, HDS1, ZN1, ZS1, and even ATE (that one kind of resembled AT stuff).  Doesn't matter that in the last year I've been reviewing mostly flagships, I still enjoy ED10 and recently gave a pair to my daughter to enjoy it with her iPhone.
> 
> Some companies need to copy the shell as part of the marketing to sell the product because they don't know how to tune the drivers.  Here, it's an opposite.  KZ knows how to tune the drivers, so why do they need to copy other shells?  I know, I'm venting cause this whole Andromeda shell clone just rubs me the wrong way...



I get what you're saying, and I agree. It comes across as incredibly lazy IMO.


----------



## HiFiChris

One can certainly blame Knowledge Zenith for copying other in-ears' designs (I certainly do since I think it's unethical because people spent time to design those shells), however this unfortunately seems to be common practice for ultra budget models - they don't really have a choice and have to decide between copying existing designs or using boring, generic shapes (cylinder/barrel). Coming up with their own, unique designs wastes too much time and resources for them which would result in higher prices. Definitely not a fair or nice practice, but not much avoidable if ultra cheap prices and a non-standard design should be achieved at the same time. Superlux doesn't really go a different route at all, copying Audio Technica's and AKG's design.



twister6 said:


> [...] and now [...] placing BA drivers inside the nozzle like 64 Audio.



Sorry, but that's just not true, Alex - placing the BA driver(s) inside the nozzle is a common practice for hybrid in-ears. Many models do it that way (even you have some of them on hand), for years, and it's not a 64 Audio exclusive practice.


----------



## 1clearhead

cirodts said:


> had 1 more triple driver and I did not like it, closed and undefined sound, the zs5 for me are superior in everything.


+1 ...I basically hear it the same way.


----------



## vladstef

I know that there are some people who would want to compare ZS5 new and old, but how do you know what you are ordering, are you getting one from the old batch or the new one?
KZ, we love you guys, but you are not making it easy.


----------



## ricemanhk

Life is like a box of KZ IEMs (that's the same model)...you never know what you're gonna get


----------



## cirodts

Is there an updated version of the zs5? How do i see if my is updated to date and resembles the zs6?


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> +1 ...I basically hear it the same way.



Same , sold my 1more triple , never look back but left and right at Chi-fi


----------



## gwompki

Has anyone received their ES3 from gearbest yet?  I'm trying to determine what the differences are, if any, compared to the ZST.  Obviously the shape is different, but otherwise the specs seem very close.  ES3 is only 10 ohm while ZST is 16 ohm according to the specs on gearbest.  The driver details are vague on the ZST specs.  It says the drivers are 6-10mm and on the ES3 it lists a specific BA (90035) and a 10mm dynamic.  

I have the ZST and like it, just wonder how different it is to the ES3.


----------



## crabdog

slaterlovesspam said:


> I get what you're saying, and I agree. It comes across as incredibly lazy IMO.


First of all let me say I think it's a very shady practice and I don't see the need for it. BUT I'm not sure if it's incredibly lazy or pure (albeit morally underhanded) marketing genius.


----------



## Holypal

VinceHill24 said:


> I asked KZ about that .. and yea they had a new iteration of ZS5. According to them it was since early August so it's pretty recent. I have no idea how to confirm if you're getting the original 1st version or the new iteration tho unless any brave soul willing to pry open your ZS5 nozzles screen.
> 
> So probably in future reviews ppl gonna talk about zs5 v1 and zs5 v2 then. Not like it's a new KZ thing



Damn. They should at least give a notice for the change. Or rename it as KZ ZS5 MKii.


----------



## cirodts

Is there an updated version of the zs5? How do i see if my is up to date and resembles the zs6?


----------



## cirodts

I saw that there are zs5 without letters L and R on drivers, my has L and R on drivers means that is the new version?


----------



## vladstef

cirodts said:


> I saw that there are zs5 without letters L and R on drivers, my has L and R on drivers means that is the new version?


No, what you are seeing are messy promo photos with lots of details being wrong. As far as we know, there is absolutely no way to know which one you are getting, the only way to know is if you look inside the nozzle - 1 BA driver is the old version, 2BA drivers are the new ones.
Chances are that no one has the new model, they have only started their production this month, and given how long the shipping is from china, we can perhaps expect some news about this 2nd version around the same time as we get news about ZS6.


----------



## Cya|\|

Any info about the kz6 cable? Is it better than the default zs5 one, or do we need to spend more on cable upgrade?


----------



## cirodts

Here is mine, according to you and the latest version?
I arrived on 23/8/2017


----------



## Holypal

cirodts said:


> Here is mine, according to you and the latest version?
> I arrived on 23/8/2017



You can do it for the team. Open it up.


----------



## Cya|\|

Holypal said:


> You can do it for the team. Open it up.


----------



## maxxevv

Just need a peak into the nozzle with a bright torch. 



Holypal said:


> You can do it for the team. Open it up.


----------



## cirodts

But where I have to see the balanced 2 text


----------



## mrjimmybob

I just got my KZ ZS5 a few days ago. Really like the sound. But I cannot say they are better than the TFZ Series 5S. They sound very similar, then again, that is very impressive, a $18 earphone sounding like a $90 one. Well either that or the $90 one sounds like a $18 one (says much for one and not much for the other).

I do find the KZ ZS5's a little bit uncomfortable due to all the angles and lack of rounded areas, especially the parts that supposedly are in contact with round shape parts of the ear. So I will not be falling for the ZS6's.

I also find the TFZ Series 5S a little bit uncomfortable due to the big size and flimsy cable. Maybe an upgrade cable would help.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 31, 2017)

cirodts said:


> Here is mine, according to you and the latest version?
> I arrived on 23/8/2017


I just checked my pair. You don't have to open it up, you can see it with a smartphone flash. I turned on the flash and pointed it towards the metal mesh of the bore. I could barely notice a small metal circle underneath the mesh - that is the opening of 1 BA driver. This circle is less than half the diameter of the whole bore. If you have 2 of these circles, then you have the new model with 2 BA drivers in the nozzle/bore.


----------



## VinceHill24

Holypal said:


> Damn. They should at least give a notice for the change. Or rename it as KZ ZS5 MKii.


Not their 1st time tho. If it wasn't intentional, i suspect the whole KZ marketing is probably a one man show LOL. Poor fellow got too many workload to cope with. But KZ is a pretty big company with its own factory so i guess it feels kinda like intentionally done.


----------



## Podster

vladstef said:


> I just checked my pair. You don't have to open it up, you can see it with a smartphone flash. I turned on the flash and pointed it towards the metal mesh of the bore. I could barely notice a small metal circle underneath the mesh - that is the opening of 1 BA driver. This circle is less than half the diameter of the whole bore. If you have 2 of these circles, then you have the new model with 2 BA drivers in the nozzle/bore.



I'm so jelli of you young bucks with 20/20! My 60 year old eyes can't see sh1t Anyway I took a dozen shots and this appears to be the closest to what you describe, look anything like it?


----------



## cirodts

The metal mesh is too thick I can not see


----------



## vladstef (Aug 31, 2017)

You can't get it on photo, the only way is to move the light a little, and every now and then, metal circle will reflect the light and will become noticeable. You never get a conclusive constant picture, but you get more than enough to be absolutely sure about how many drivers/circles are inside.

E: I just realized that you can get a clear picture of the driver, the circle and the square body is visible if you distance the light, just don't get too close with the light as it will reflect on the mesh.


----------



## Podster (Aug 31, 2017)

Ed Zachery, I feel your pain!

@vladstef  it worked, have version 1, small circle appears in the lower half of the nozzle furthest away to the far side of the shell


----------



## vladstef (Aug 31, 2017)

Ok, I got some very conclusive images, the circle/inside of the BA reflects the light at certain angle.
Even the body of the driver is seen with naked eye, slightly harder on camera.


----------



## cirodts

Here are my, are the old version?


----------



## vladstef

cirodts said:


> Here are my, are the old version?


Yup. It's safe to assume that no one has the new ones. People who order now have a chance of receiving the new one, but even that is not 100% guaranteed.


----------



## likejehu

zs5 ~12$ on ebay:
https://goo.gl/WmrQ7o


----------



## twister6

HiFiChris said:


> One can certainly blame Knowledge Zenith for copying other in-ears' designs (I certainly do since I think it's unethical because people spent time to design those shells), however this unfortunately seems to be common practice for ultra budget models - they don't really have a choice and have to decide between copying existing designs or using boring, generic shapes (cylinder/barrel). Coming up with their own, unique designs wastes too much time and resources for them which would result in higher prices. Definitely not a fair or nice practice, but not much avoidable if ultra cheap prices and a non-standard design should be achieved at the same time. Superlux doesn't really go a different route at all, copying Audio Technica's and AKG's design.
> 
> ...
> Sorry, but that's just not true, Alex - placing the BA driver(s) inside the nozzle is a common practice for hybrid in-ears. Many models do it that way (even you have some of them on hand), for years, and it's not a 64 Audio exclusive practice.



Yes, Chris, it's a common practice because other manufacturers need every bit of "help" to get noticed in a saturated crowd of budget releases.  But my point was that KZ a) knows how to design and to tune a fine pair of iems, they have proven it in their previous releases, b) they had many previous releases with original shell designs, taking the same boring cylinder/barrel and spicing it up with some new interesting details.  They wanted something controversial to make people talk about it, to get extra attention, to sell a few more units.  A few years back, they were releasing very impressive price/performance ratio IEMs, making people talk about them because they sounded good and looked cool.  Now, I'm reading about ZS5 having either poor QC or intentionally disconnected drivers (here) and reading all these posts with "look, does this shell remind you of anything?"

I know that KZ is reading this thread, and I sincerely hope they will get this message because they are better than that


----------



## cirodts

Then I think the zs6 is a great update since it really has 2 balanced armor


----------



## Podster

@vladstef  that is exactly the way I see mine like yours on the left. I have also been looking on AliEx and it seems some are now advertising latest 2017 ZS5! Not sure if that is an indicator of the latest version or not but since I don't have a gray pair I carted up and decided to go ahead and fall for the pre order ZS6 in the Black for $39. Guess I'll know when they get here, re-gifting with one less pair of tips has been known to happen at the Pods LOL


----------



## maxxevv

likejehu said:


> zs5 ~12$ on ebay:
> https://goo.gl/WmrQ7o



That's just the bluetooth module. Don't get too excited...  Aliexpress and Gearbest are still way cheaper.


----------



## sman789

I ordred mine early August from GB and it looks like it's the updated model.
 
It appears to be three things behind the screen, so I'm thinking it's not just one BA there.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 31, 2017)

sman789 said:


> I ordred mine early August from GB and it looks like it's the updated model.
> 
> It appears to be three things behind the screen, so I'm thinking it's not just one BA there.


I can't quite tell, look on some photos above where there is a definitive 1 shiny circle, it should have exactly that plus one more on the opposite side.
We need people who have a new pair to give us some idea of the sound because that will be closer to what ZS6 will ultimately sound.


----------



## mixolyd

maxxevv said:


> That's just the bluetooth module. Don't get too excited...  Aliexpress and Gearbest are still way cheaper.



The listing says it's the KZ ZS5 wired earphone, no mention of Bluetooth.


----------



## crabdog

vladstef said:


> I can't quite tell, look on some photos above where there is a definitive 1 shiny circle, it should have exactly that plus one more on the opposite side.
> We need people who have a new pair to give us some idea of the sound because that will be closer to what ZS6 will ultimately sound.


It will give no indication whatsoever of how the ZS6 will sound IMO. Just changing from plastic to metal would make a huge difference in sound signature. i'm pretty certain they will both have been tuned independently but as it's pure speculation either or neither of use could be right.


----------



## Slater

mixolyd said:


> The listing says it's the KZ ZS5 wired earphone, no mention of Bluetooth.



Can't go by just the title. You have to choose the "color", and the price will change to reflect your choice (silver, blue, bluetooth cable, etc).


----------



## mixolyd

slaterlovesspam said:


> Can't go by just the title. You have to choose the "color", and the price will change to reflect your choice (silver, blue, bluetooth cable, etc).



Ah so it's a bait and switch.  I'd report the ad but eBay's complaint process is too complicated to be worth it.


----------



## Redcarmoose

IRhttp://m.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS6-2DD-2BA-Hybrid-Drivers-In-Ear-Earphone-ZS5-Upgraded-IEM-HIFI-Headphone-/253120324913?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIM.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2526meid%253De42be00a1d664149922d9cc1d9160b5c%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D6%2526rkt%253D25%2526sd%253D182686974837&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460 d


----------



## Pilotdog68

Has anyone else received their ES3's yet? I'm considering ordering them but I already have ZST and want to make sure they sound different enough to be worth it.


----------



## cirodts

What are the sonic differences between the new zs5 and old version?


----------



## Griffith

Not sure if this has been posted here yet but I got the KZ Bluetooth module today and I saw an interesting thing in the manual.


----------



## vladstef

Griffith said:


> Not sure if this has been posted here yet but I got the KZ Bluetooth module today and I saw an interesting thing in the manual.


Yeah, someone posted the same thing more than a month ago. We know that ZSR is coming and that it's DD+2BA combo, nothing is confirmed about the shell, we just know that it's coming very soon, end of September is predicted. I don't even know how the lineup will look like in the end, maybe ZSR ends up being an upgrade to ZS6 even with 1 less dynamic driver.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

cirodts said:


> What are the sonic differences between the new zs5 and old version?



Nobody knows. Not even KZ.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Pilotdog68 said:


> Has anyone else received their ES3's yet? I'm considering ordering them but I already have ZST and want to make sure they sound different enough to be worth it.



Mine will (finally) be here Saturday.  I say finally, but they shipped from China 8/24 and I'm in the midwest.  Can't really argue with that transit time.


----------



## Pilotdog68

thebigredpolos said:


> Mine will (finally) be here Saturday.  I say finally, but they shipped from China 8/24 and I'm in the midwest.  Can't really argue with that transit time.



I look forward to hearing your thoughts. 

Oh, and GBR


----------



## Tweeters

Has anyone taken the red screen out of the ZSE? Does that affect sound much?


----------



## Griffith

So I just came back from my first run from the ZST with the Bluetooth module. I have good news and bad news.

Sound quality is great, as was expected, and frankly maybe it was because of the ambient sound or my own breathing but they sounded nearly as good as they do with the cable.

The Bluetooth module has really nice reception and I didn't get any sound creaking/loss even once throughout the entire run, something which doesn't happen with my Tennmak MMCX Bluetooth module, my Brainwavz Blu-100 or the Plantronics Backbeat Go 2.

The battery percentage is not displayed on Android unfortunately.

The buttons on the unit seem to have a bit of lag to them and require slightly longer presses than usual to activate. I can understand why in some cases that would be positive to avoid missclicks but it does take a bit of getting used to.

I can't speak for the battery life because I can't see how much I used up on my run and haven't had it run out on me yet but they seem sufficient enough for at least a long workout which fits my needs just fine.

The little plastic flap that protects the Micro USB port broke the second time I opened it (no, I wasn't rough on it or anything and it's the only Bluetooth module I've ever had this issue with).

If you have any questions about the Bluetooth module feel free to ask and I'll answer when I return.


----------



## Slater

Griffith said:


> So I just came back from my first run from the ZST with the Bluetooth module. I have good news and bad news.
> 
> Sound quality is great, as was expected, and frankly maybe it was because of the ambient sound or my own breathing but they sounded nearly as good as they do with the cable.
> 
> ...



Glad the cable is working out for you.

You noticed the same thing as me - the ZST sounds almost the same with the bluetooth cable as the stock cable. This is not the case on the ZS3 or ZS5 though.

As far as the micro usb cover, they always fall off so I just rip them off as soon as I receive a bluetooth headphone and don't look back.

Very odd about the button clicks. Mine is immediate, but I use mine with an iPhone or iPod Touch so maybe it's an iOS vs Android thing.

Battery life is between 3-4 hours depending on volume.


----------



## cirodts

That disk we see in the headset nozzle is not the balanced armor but the super tweeter?


----------



## vector84 (Aug 31, 2017)

Tweeter is not a type of driver, Balanced Armature, Dynamics, Planars, etc...
That tweeter is a BA, so is the super tweeter.

Anyhow, a trick of human vision for you guys: move your head, not just the flashlight, to see through the screen easier.


But I wouldn't count on the BAs having the same nozzle arrangement as the renders, so just seeing the BA nozzle alone ... not sure how conclusive that is.
(the renders are wrong on the nozzle arrangement on the original ZS5, after all, the 30095 has no nozzle)

Anyone know which size screens the ZS5 takes btw?  Can't find my calipers. 
That hot glue instead of a regular adhesive ring sure is annoying, no easy check and replace.


----------



## vector84

Tweeters said:


> Has anyone taken the red screen out of the ZSE? Does that affect sound much?


I tried it:
First reaction was favorable - brighter, less woolly bass.
After a few days of listening though, I noticed a really strong peak in the 5.5khz range that started to irritate me

Ended up putting a thinner nylon screen in its place to tame that peak personally.


----------



## cirodts

But a BA and in front of the nozzle and I see it but the other BA is a lot behind and you can not see it from the nozzle, right?


----------



## vector84

Correct, you cannot see the second BA through the bore on the original ZS5.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Griffith said:


> So I just came back from my first run from the ZST with the Bluetooth module. I have good news and bad news.
> 
> Sound quality is great, as was expected, and frankly maybe it was because of the ambient sound or my own breathing but they sounded nearly as good as they do with the cable.
> 
> ...



On the contrary:

Putting the bluetooth cable on the ZS5 works in a pinch but it's a far cry than having it plugged into my Magni 2.  I get around 4-5 hours of battery life.  Gotta hold +/- to adjust headset volume.  I set it as low as possible on the cable and increased bluetooth volume on my phone.  I haven't really noticed any unreasonable delay with buttons.  Bluetooth has always been a bit slow when it comes to that.  Even my Pebble Time has a small delay with play/pause/skip.

No issues with the door flap.  I've charged it about half a dozen times so far.


----------



## cirodts

vector84 said:


> Correct, you cannot see the second BA through the bore on the original ZS5.


In fact, then it is not true that those who only see a disk through the nozzle is the old model of the zs5?


----------



## vector84

cirodts said:


> In fact, then it is not true that those who only see a disk through the nozzle is the old model of the zs5?


Probably but we haven't seen what the real double BA setup looks like yet.

It could look like this which would make it harder to tell:


----------



## vladstef

vector84 said:


> Probably but we haven't seen what the real double BA setup looks like yet.
> 
> It could look like this which would make it harder to tell:


They added another identical driver, I doubt that they combined them (I am not even sure that they can do that, I think you need to manufacture them like this straight away, which would change their model number, but hey, you can't expect KZ to actually change the number as this is apparently a very hard thing to do). If it's indeed combined like this, it would still be noticeable, the shiny circle would have to be much closer to the center of the nozzle. So, we will either see 2 circles or one close to the center as a confirmation of version 2.


----------



## vector84 (Aug 31, 2017)

vladstef said:


> They added another identical driver, I doubt that they combined them (I am not even sure that they can do that, I think you need to manufacture them like this straight away, which would change their model number, but hey, you can't expect KZ to actually change the number as this is apparently a very hard thing to do). If it's indeed combined like this, it would still be noticeable, the shiny circle would have to be much closer to the center of the nozzle. So, we will either see 2 circles or one close to the center as a confirmation of version 2.


But the 1205 was in the bore before.

Maybe a picture of an actual 30095 will help illustrate my line of thinking:
(taken from the breakdown video posted back here)



It's obviously impossible to say without seeing one, but I'm thinking that through the screen, telling these apart might be a bit tricky if it ends up looking like this:


----------



## vladstef (Aug 31, 2017)

vector84 said:


> But the 1205 was in the bore before.
> 
> Maybe a picture of an actual 30095 will help illustrate my line of thinking:
> (taken from the breakdown video posted back here)


It's not very clear to me at this point what is going on, this whole BA manipulation should've been a non issue and now is plaguing ZS5 just because of wrong info on so many levels. So, there is currently no definitive way of checking your ZS5 version without opening them? (maybe there will be a way of looking into the nozzle and figuring it out, we just need some brave and experienced soul to open version 2 of the ZS5 and show us what's in the nozzle)


----------



## groucho69

Isn't it all just speculation at this point?


----------



## vector84

Yup, pure speculation on looks, though VinceHill did confirm that KZ started making new ZS5s in early August.


Also, I kinda touched on this out above, but it's worth saying again:

The screens on the ZS5 aren't held on with a regular adhesive ring, or at least they aren't on the pair I'm willing to tamper with.

I just finished messing with them a bit more: on one side the screen was seemingly just pressure fit into the bore, on the other it was held in with a hot glue like substance.

If you're going to mess with the screens, be prepared to replace them entirely.


----------



## kramercosmo

How close are ZS5 and ZS3 in design and size?

I have ZS3 and can't get them to fit at all, they are too big and the nozzle seem to small.


----------



## gwompki

Not to fan the flames of speculation, but it looks like the price of the ZS5 has gone up substantially on gearbest.  I've been watching the price over the past month and they could be had for 17-20 dollars if you dug around on their site. Now the price is a firm 25 dollars.  Not sure if that could be an indication of the newer model.  Also the price could very well drop again tomorrow. 

Regardless, I am happy with my ZS5 regardless of version.  It would really be nice if KZ at least embraced social media and talked about their products to give people some insight into what is happening with their product line.  In the end, it probably doesn't matter though because I will keep buying them as long as they keep making solid product.


----------



## Slater

gwompki said:


> Not to fan the flames of speculation, but it looks like the price of the ZS5 has gone up substantially on gearbest.  I've been watching the price over the past month and they could be had for 17-20 dollars if you dug around on their site. Now the price is a firm 25 dollars.  Not sure if that could be an indication of the newer model.  Also the price could very well drop again tomorrow.
> 
> Regardless, I am happy with my ZS5 regardless of version.  It would really be nice if KZ at least embraced social media and talked about their products to give people some insight into what is happening with their product line.  In the end, it probably doesn't matter though because I will keep buying them as long as they keep making solid product.



Gearbest does that all the time. The $17-$20 price were flash sales. Then after the sale the price goes up to close to retail, until the next flash sale. It just makes the 'sale' prices look that much more spectacular.

Don't worry; it's not a global conspiracy or anything like that.


----------



## gwompki

slaterlovesspam said:


> Gearbest does that all the time. The $17-$20 price were flash sales. Then after the sale the price goes up to close to retail, until the next flash sale. It just makes the 'sale' prices look that much more spectacular.
> 
> Don't worry; it's not a global conspiracy or anything like that.



LOL understood.  I just started keeping an eye on gearbest within the past month.  Think I ordered my set in late July for around $17.  Everytime I have checked since, the price has been around that number.  Today was the first time I had seen the full price with no sale price to be found after some digging.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 31, 2017)

gwompki said:


> LOL understood.  I just started keeping an eye on gearbest within the past month.  Think I ordered my set in late July for around $17.  Everytime I have checked since, the price has been around that number.  Today was the first time I had seen the full price with no sale price to be found after some digging.


well, if the flash sale was always happening....it wouldn't be a flash sale.


----------



## vector84

So an interesting aside - after peeling the screens out of my partially broken pair of ZS5s, I noticed something pretty odd...

The one that I would classify as broken had the BA placed so far up in the bore that it was above the line where the screen sits (so it would have been pushed into the screen pretty firmly), the BA nozzle was also cemented to the wall of the bore with a big smear of the hot glue like stuff that held the screen on and it is pointing directly parallel with the bore, as opposed to the normal slightly offset angle of the working one.
Guess that explains the channel imbalance at least 


Now I don't want to say I fixed them - my crude measurements show no significant changes (and the channel imbalance is still present), so I can't truly be sure it's not all in my head, but after removing the screens and cleaning up some of the glue mess in the bore, they don't seem to be causing me pain at moderately elevated volume levels, which was not the case when I put them away a couple weeks ago.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> So an interesting aside - after peeling the screens out of my partially broken pair of ZS5s, I noticed something pretty odd...
> 
> The one that I would classify as broken had the BA placed so far up in the bore that it was above the line where the screen sits (so it would have been pushed into the screen pretty firmly), the BA nozzle was also cemented to the wall of the bore with a big smear of the hot glue like stuff that held the screen on and it is pointing directly parallel with the bore, as opposed to the normal slightly offset angle of the working one.
> Guess that explains the channel imbalance at least
> ...



'Normal' IS mounted parallel with the nozzle bore, not angled inside of the nozzle. The reason is the nozzle itself is angled, so you want the driver pointed straight out the nozzle.


----------



## vector84

slaterlovesspam said:


> 'Normal' IS mounted parallel with the nozzle bore, not angled inside of the nozzle. The reason is the nozzle itself is angled, so you want the driver pointed straight out the nozzle.


Well, here's a picture of what I'm talking about, the one on the right is the broken one.  It's not a huge offset, but looking at them side by side it's noticeable:
More prominent is how much farther forward the BA on the right is, this angle doesn't capture it very well, but it sits well above the screen lip.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

vector84 said:


> The one that I would classify as broken had the BA placed so far up in the bore that it was above the line where the screen sits (so it would have been pushed into the screen pretty firmly), the BA nozzle was also cemented to the wall of the bore with a big smear of the hot glue like stuff that held the screen on and it is pointing directly parallel with the bore, as opposed to the normal slightly offset angle of the working one.



KZ's assembly line.


----------



## cirodts

If I understand, seeing only one disk in the nozzle does not indicate if it is the new or old zs5.


----------



## vector84

cirodts said:


> If I understand, seeing only one disk in the nozzle does not indicate if it is the new or old zs5.


Well it *probably* means old, but until we see a confirmation of a new one in the wild, it's impossible to know for sure.


----------



## cirodts

vector84 said:


> Well it *probably* means old, but until we see a confirmation of a new one in the wild, it's impossible to know for sure.


ok


----------



## cirodts

The old version still has 2 balanced armor behind the nozzle and the other at the bottom, right?


----------



## Mellowship

This thread sure is busy! Adventures at the KZ kingdom seem to never end... 
Last week I ordered some grey ZS5 at GB (my first order there...), just because I got tired of the blue ones... (excuses...). And now the ZS6 is on the rise... Oh my wallet... 
Meanwhile I was working at my home computer while listening to some music on Foobar with the ZSE and got sleepy. Went to bed without turning off the computer. So the ZSE got an overnight (and morning) of workload, totalling around 20 something hours. I do not subscribe to the idea that burn in will change the sound signature and never felt a substantial difference in any IEM with burn in before. But with the ZSE it's a different story. They were good out of the box, with great treble, substantial sub-bass and well tuned mids. Prior to the burn in, they only had 4 or 5 hours of intermittent work. Now they are getting close to the ZS5 in the natural way they deliver music. The bass got more controlled, more distinct (although without losing all the thumpiness typical of budget IEMs - something you can't find in the ZS5), and the mids opened up a little. The sub-bass is more "audible" and also more controlled now, and really contributes to the rhythmic coherence of the music. A real joy for listening, for instances, to some vintage funky tunes like The Meters, or some afrocuban music. Comparing with other double dynamics I have around, they are much more fun than the VJJB V1 (and more controlled in the bass) and have much more balance, mainly in the upper frequency spectre than the Tennmak Pros. With this sound signature, and for 6-7 USD? This is a budget king, maybe the most well tuned IEM up to 10 USD (considering the Chifi alternatives) and up to 30-40 USD considering the mainstream brands. Go buy them, get them a day of hard work to get'hem in shape, let the starline tips do their magic and enjoy!


----------



## cirodts

But Laam & Damm and rock zircon sound better than zs5?


----------



## Mellowship

cirodts said:


> But Laam & Damm and rock zircon sound better than zs5?


Rock Zircon?! No. The Zircons are still being overrated and overhyped. They sound completely unnatural, with that "larger than life" bass.


----------



## cirodts

You are zircon, the translator has wrong haa haa, having the zs5 I thought it was worth buying a liam or zircon, i do not think so


----------



## maxxevv

Mellowship said:


> This thread sure is busy! Adventures at the KZ kingdom seem to never end...
> Last week I ordered some grey ZS5 at GB (my first order there...), just because I got tired of the blue ones... (excuses...). And now the ZS6 is on the rise... Oh my wallet...
> Meanwhile I was working at my home computer while listening to some music on Foobar with the ZSE and got sleepy. Went to bed without turning off the computer. So the ZSE got an overnight (and morning) of workload, totalling around 20 something hours. I do not subscribe to the idea that burn in will change the sound signature and never felt a substantial difference in any IEM with burn in before. But with the ZSE it's a different story. They were good out of the box, with great treble, substantial sub-bass and well tuned mids. Prior to the burn in, they only had 4 or 5 hours of intermittent work. Now they are getting close to the ZS5 in the natural way they deliver music. The bass got more controlled, more distinct (although without losing all the thumpiness typical of budget IEMs - something you can't find in the ZS5), and the mids opened up a little. The sub-bass is more "audible" and also more controlled now, and really contributes to the rhythmic coherence of the music. A real joy for listening, for instances, to some vintage funky tunes like The Meters, or some afrocuban music. Comparing with other double dynamics I have around, they are much more fun than the VJJB V1 (and more controlled in the bass) and have much more balance, mainly in the upper frequency spectre than the Tennmak Pros. With this sound signature, and for 6-7 USD? This is a budget king, maybe the most well tuned IEM up to 10 USD (considering the Chifi alternatives) and up to 30-40 USD considering the mainstream brands. Go buy them, get them a day of hard work to get'hem in shape, let the starline tips do their magic and enjoy!



The ZSE's do tune-up a bit after a slight burn in.  Mine loosened up after maybe 3~4 hours and hasn't varied noticeably since.  

I need to mention again, they are also somewhat source sensitive. I find that a neutral, marginally bright source will bring out the details on them better. As they sound noticeably different between my LG G6 and my laptop jack.  The former being better. 
They are very good for energetic tracks that are not too complicated in the instrumentation. Very enjoyable sound signature for most pop genres. Only real issue I have with them are the wire microphonics .... its damn bad.


----------



## likejehu

maxxevv said:


> That's just the bluetooth module. Don't get too excited...  Aliexpress and Gearbest are still way cheaper.


sorry, idk,  description says that this is earphones. there is not even a word "bluetooth".


----------



## Mellowship

maxxevv said:


> The ZSE's do tune-up a bit after a slight burn in.  Mine loosened up after maybe 3~4 hours and hasn't varied noticeably since.
> 
> I need to mention again, they are also somewhat source sensitive. I find that a neutral, marginally bright source will bring out the details on them better. As they sound noticeably different between my LG G6 and my laptop jack.  The former being better.
> They are very good for energetic tracks that are not too complicated in the instrumentation. Very enjoyable sound signature for most pop genres. Only real issue I have with them are the wire microphonics .... its damn bad.



I am inclined to say all latest KZs are somewhat source sensitive. The ZS3 perhaps being the most. Only tried the ZSE on two or three sources so far: the cheap noisy but rather enjoyable and fun chifi X5 USB dac/headamp I've got connected to my home laptop, my FiiO X3ii and my Topping NX2 dac/amp connected to the FiiO. Sounded better on the last combination. Need to try it with the smartphone to see if it scales down. 
Yes, the microphonics are bad. I already commented that early on my first impressions thread. At least they should come with a chin-slider to help get that cable steady.


----------



## HungryPanda

Today I'm enjoying the ZS1's:


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Well, here's a picture of what I'm talking about, the one on the right is the broken one.  It's not a huge offset, but looking at them side by side it's noticeable:
> More prominent is how much farther forward the BA on the right is, this angle doesn't capture it very well, but it sits well above the screen lip.



Yeah, the one is mounted too high - it definitely shouldn't be poking above the screen.


----------



## mrjimmybob

Holy cow. I just got a pair of FiiO F9 and have been comparing them to my KZ ZS5 all morning. None of them are burnt in yet, but.

I find the sound to be very similar. Both are very joyfull to listen to. Nice detail, Nice highs. Nice mids. Nice lows.

The FiiO F9 are much more premium than the KZ ZS5, they have an aluminium body, two cables, one of them balanced, and a nice hard case. 

As for comfort I find both have there issues. The KZ ZS5's are comfortable, but I find the cable round the ear kind of gets in the way. The FiiO F9 cable management is perfect. The shell is another story, even though the KX ZS5 is all angles and not rounded, I find it is more comfortable in the ear that the FiiO F9. Not saying the FiiO F9 is uncomfortable, but my ear adjusts to the KZ a little bit better.

I could easily live with both. But given the price of the KZ compared to the FiiO, I would only recommend buying the FiiO's over the KZ's if you want the extra premium feel and accesories. But sound-wise, I would recommend the KZ ZS5 any day.


----------



## peskypesky

Mellowship said:


> Rock Zircon?! No. The Zircons are still being overrated and overhyped. They sound completely unnatural, with that "larger than life" bass.


Disagree. I think the Zircons sound very good. The ZS5's sound better, yes, but that doesn't mean Zircons sound bad. My opinion.


----------



## Griffith (Sep 1, 2017)

I just received the ZS5, I started listening to them just now and I'm very confused.

My first tracks with them were from Tool, namely Triad, Lateralus, Right in Two, and the music sounded a bit recessed, controlled. There seemed to be very little bass, the vocals seemed refrained. There was a lot of detail in the sound, but not a lot of engagement, certainly not as much as a ZST, which I expected to these to sound similar to.

Then I put on Amy Winehouse's Frank and that album just sounds magical with the ZS5. Amy's voice is very present and intimate, the instruments are well defined and full of detail, a completely different experience from what I had with Tool.

Here's what I can say for sure. They are not as harsh as the ZST but they are bassier. At least that's what I'm perceiving right now. I think my stereo jack is going to be very busy with all the comparing I'll be doing.

Edit: Portishead also had the same "issue" that Tool's music had when listening to them with the ZS5. It seems like the ZS5 are more sensitive to different genres/kinds of music than the ZST. With some types of music they sound really great, with others, not as much. I guess that is true of most earphones, but this is the first time I felt this with a KZ earphone.


----------



## Mellowship

Griffith said:


> I just received the ZS5, I started listening to them just now and I'm very confused.
> 
> My first tracks with them were from Tool, namely Triad, Lateralus, Right in Two, and the music sounded a bit recessed, controlled. There seemed to be very little bass, the vocals seemed refrained. There was a lot of detail in the sound, but not a lot of engagement, certainly not as much as a ZST, which I expected to these to sound similar to.
> 
> ...


The ZS5 are better in microdinamics than in macro. It is to say that when thing get busy, they reveal their limitation. When complex passages with high frequency range and high amplitude kick in, they lose some of their ability to engage, to create the intimate listening experience they accustomed us with other more simple music. But I wouldn't say they tend to get congested. Just a slightly overwhelmed. Also, being quite linear in their presentation, more complex music means more information on the midrange in a small interval of time, which is naturally confusing to our sensory perception.


----------



## peskypesky

Griffith said:


> I just received the ZS5, I started listening to them just now and I'm very confused.
> 
> My first tracks with them were from Tool, namely Triad, Lateralus, Right in Two, and the music sounded a bit recessed, controlled. There seemed to be very little bass, the vocals seemed refrained. There was a lot of detail in the sound, but not a lot of engagement, certainly not as much as a ZST, which I expected to these to sound similar to.
> 
> ...


I think you have them plugged in wrong and they're out of phase.


----------



## chi-fi mel

peskypesky said:


> Disagree. I think the Zircons sound very good. The ZS5's sound better, yes, but that doesn't mean Zircons sound bad. My opinion.


Drives me crazy that folks review headphones here, but don't say what tips they are using. I have 15 excellent earphones and there's only 1 out of the 15 that I use with the stock tips that originally came on them. I finally got my Zircons to sound good when I added the ball type foam tips. The KZ ZSE, ZS3 and ZS5 all sounded dramatically better with Comply than they did with any other tips. I got my KZ ED9 to sound much better when I added custom tips. My MEMT X5 always sounded good, but the iLuv 322 tips took it to another level, and those are unique and incredible tips that will greatly improve most earphones. My Klipsch S4 improved hugely when I replaced their custom tip with a double flange. Tip rolling is a critical part of chi-fi. I've read a zillion write-ups on the KZ ZS5, but if someone isn't using Comply on them their comments are likely irrelevant.


----------



## Mellowship

chi-fi mel said:


> Drives me crazy that folks review headphones here, but don't say what tips they are using. I have 15 excellent earphones and there's only 1 out of the 15 that I use with the stock tips that originally came on them. I finally got my Zircons to sound good when I added the ball type foam tips. The KZ ZSE, ZS3 and ZS5 all sounded dramatically better with Comply than they did with any other tips. I got my KZ ED9 to sound much better when I added custom tips. My MEMT X5 always sounded good, but the iLuv 322 tips took it to another level, and those are unique and incredible tips that will greatly improve most earphones. My Klipsch S4 improved hugely when I replaced their custom tip with a double flange. Tip rolling is a critical part of chi-fi. I've read a zillion write-ups on the KZ ZS5, but if someone isn't using Comply on them their comments are likely irrelevant.


Does third-party comply-like memory foam good quality chifi tips from AE count?
Yes, in many cases tips make quite a difference. One of the reasons I still love my old Radiopaq Jazz is because of its stock tips in a soft silicone that I've never seen anywhere so far, and couldn't get them to play better with other tips. 
I use memory foam tips with much every iem, except when those tips make insertion difficult - for me it's the case with ZSE, but the black Star line large tips are good enough - or when they sound better with stocks or others like Sony hybrids. 
Even the cheap ED7 sounds much much better with t200 foams!


----------



## maxxevv (Sep 2, 2017)

My experience with the XE800 is that the comply-like T200 foam tips make a significant difference to the sound profile.

It certain added an appreciable level of bass to the overall sound of it without rolling off any significant top end treble.  Making the overall sound signature of the XE800 more enjoyable for a wider range of  music.
Its still my best sounding earphone for Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings, Op.11. 

The ZSE's sounded great with its stock tips though.


----------



## Mellowship

maxxevv said:


> My experience with the XE800 is that the comply-like T200 foam tips make a significant difference to the sound profile.
> 
> It certain added an appreciable level of bass to the overall sound of it without rolling off any significant top end treble.  Making the overall sound signature of the XE800 more enjoyable for a wider range of  music.
> Its still my best sounding earphone for Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings, Op.11.
> ...


Also mine with the xe800. Without the t200, they sounded anemic. With them, they have enough bass to appreciate all its other qualities. 

Ed9 (gold nozzle) also gets much better with foamies (t400). Even archaic iems like Sony XB line (t200). Or classics like se215 (t100).


----------



## vector84

chi-fi mel said:


> but if someone isn't using Comply on them their comments are likely irrelevant.


What's up? You just buy stock or somethin? 


Foams are a pretty common recommendation on KZ products and the ZS5 especially...

And I considered writing more here but I feel like I'd just come off sounding like a jerk, so I'll just leave it at that...


----------



## Griffith

peskypesky said:


> I think you have them plugged in wrong and they're out of phase.



No, they're not. These aren't my first KZ. I'm well aware of that issue and I know how plug the cable in correctly. I also know what out of phase music sounds like.


----------



## skeej

mrjimmybob said:


> As for comfort I find both have there issues. The KZ ZS5's are comfortable, but I find the cable round the ear kind of gets in the way.



Get the cheap "upgrade" cable. Available at about every familiar outlet for around $7. Very nice loose cable, no tangling, no microphonics, but most importantly the memory wire part at the ears shapes way easier and stays in shape better. So much better all around.


----------



## HiFiChris

skeej said:


> Get the cheap "upgrade" cable. Available at about every familiar outlet for around $7. Very nice loose cable, no tangling, no microphonics, but most importantly the memory wire part at the ears shapes way easier and stays in shape better. So much better all around.



I second that.


----------



## Mellowship

vector84 said:


> What's up? You just buy stock or somethin?
> 
> 
> Foams are a pretty common recommendation on KZ products and the ZS5 especially...
> ...


----------



## Griffith (Sep 2, 2017)

Has anyone done a frequency measurement of the ZS5?

I want to compare the readings to how I'm perceiving their sound.

Edit: I managed to find some https://audiobudget.com/product/KZ/ZS5

Oh boy... I have the feeling that my opinion about the ZS5 is going to be very contentious.


----------



## toddy0191

Griffith said:


> Has anyone done a frequency measurement of the ZS5?
> 
> I want to compare the readings to how I'm perceiving their sound.



There's one on Audiobudget.


----------



## vector84

Griffith said:


> Has anyone done a frequency measurement of the ZS5?
> 
> I want to compare the readings to how I'm perceiving their sound.


A fun jaunt into fit and source dependence for sure... here's a few leads:

HiFiChris http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/06/KZ-ZS5-Frequency-Response.html
Audiobudget https://audiobudget.com/product/KZ/ZS5
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/6dcaqm/kz_zs5_measurements/

KZ marketing material:


----------



## Griffith (Sep 2, 2017)

I think I've pinpointed why some tracks sound more dry/recessed by looking at a spectrum analyzer. It has to do with that dip around the 800/1k mark. By comparison with my Fostex T50RP mk3 those have a small hump at that frequency range.

What I don't understand is why this issue isn't as prominent with the ZST even though they respond more or less the same way around that frequency range.

Edit: a bit of EQ, a couple or 3 db more around the 1k mark softens the issue considerably.


----------



## vector84

Griffith said:


> I think I've pinpointed why some tracks sound more dry/recessed by looking at a spectrum analyzer. It has to do with that dip around the 800/1k mark. By comparison with my Fostex T50RP mk3 those have a small hump at that frequency range.
> 
> What I don't understand is why this issue isn't as prominent with the ZST even though they respond more or less the same way around that frequency range.


Are you trying to compare apples to apples while holding oranges?
IE measurements from your own setups would probably be more enlightening in that regard.

Or you could be hearing something that doesn't show up in a basic FR plot - for example spectral decay.


----------



## Griffith (Sep 2, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Are you trying to compare apples to apples while holding oranges?
> IE measurements from your own setups would probably be more enlightening in that regard.
> 
> Or you could be hearing something that doesn't show up in a basic FR plot - for example spectral decay.



I'm just trying to understand why some tracks sound really great and lively on the ZS5 whereas others sound very dry and vocals seem recessed. I don't have any equipment to take any measurements of my own so all I can do is A/B testing and a bit of equalization.

Right now I'm testing different eartips to see if they give me a more enjoyable sound. The Spintips seem to work better/seal better than the stock tips. The Comply foam tips murdered all the bass in cold blood.


----------



## Adide

chi-fi mel said:


> I've read a zillion write-ups on the KZ ZS5, but if someone isn't using Comply on them their comments are likely irrelevant.





chi-fi mel said:


> Drives me crazy



Tough...


----------



## Mellowship

Adide said:


> Tough...


And people who have hairy earlobes. It totally kills the midrange. People should definitively post pics of their earlobes.


----------



## Mellowship

Griffith said:


> I'm just trying to understand why some tracks sound really great and lively on the ZS5 whereas others sound very dry and vocals seem recessed. I don't have any equipment to take any measurements of my own so all I can do is A/B testing and a bit of equalization.
> 
> Right now I'm testing different eartips to see if they give me a more enjoyable sound. The Spintips seem to work better/seal better than the stock tips. The Comply foam tips murdered all the bass in cold blood.



Bass extension and quality depends on the diameter of the foam tips. If they are too small for your ear canals, bass will suffer. They have to fit snugly.


----------



## eaglesgift

Mellowship said:


> Bass extension and quality depends on the diameter of the foam tips. If they are too small for your ear canals, bass will suffer. They have to fit snugly.


I gave up on Comply a while ago because they made every IEM I put them on sound muffled but I recently discovered if I don't try to squeeze them before insertion, they are much better. I can push the standard T400s into my canal without rolling/squashing them first and they work fine but if I roll them first, I think I insert too deeply (ooh I say!) and perhaps the tip gets bent in my ear canal, causing the muffled sound.


----------



## Mellowship

eaglesgift said:


> I gave up on Comply a while ago because they made every IEM I put them on sound muffled but I recently discovered if I don't try to squeeze them before insertion, they are much better. I can push the standard T400s into my canal without rolling/squashing them first and they work fine but if I roll them first, I think I insert too deeply (ooh I say!) and perhaps the tip gets bent in my ear canal, causing the muffled sound.


Yes, it also depends on the diameter of the ear canal and the IEM bore. That happens with my ATE, they become muffled with large foams but great and sweet and lively with medium-sized ones.


----------



## vector84

Griffith said:


> I'm just trying to understand why some tracks sound really great and lively on the ZS5 whereas others sound very dry and vocals seem recessed. I don't have any equipment to take any measurements of my own so all I can do is A/B testing and a bit of equalization.
> 
> Right now I'm testing different eartips to see if they give me a more enjoyable sound. The Spintips seem to work better/seal better than the stock tips. The Comply foam tips murdered all the bass in cold blood.


A few thoughts:

Foams a size smaller than you'd normally use come up as a common suggestion, but if you can't get a good fit with that setup, won't be much help.  (bore size on the foams can make a pretty significant difference too)

Starlines (stock tips) take a while to break in - new ones are so sticky and firm that, for me at least, they feel like they're getting a good fit, but they're not, not at all - the difference between a brand new pair of starlines and ones I've been using for a few weeks is night and day.

Bass response depends strongly on the overall fit in your ear as well, not just tip fitting (unless you tape over the vent to mitigate fit related changes) - the graphs from Chris make a nice show of how much of a difference that makes.

Might also want to see how much the issue you're experiencing persists across different sources, and how it changes, if at all.


----------



## eaglesgift

Mellowship said:


> Yes, it also depends on the diameter of the ear canal and the IEM bore. That happens with my ATE, they become muffled with large foams but great and sweet and lively with medium-sized ones.


I can't remember what size I ordered - I've had them sitting around for ages. I guess I'll have to start again with a variety pack if I want to experiment. I fancy trying some of the round-shaped ones with the ZS5s etcetera as I have a feeling they might suit my ear better. Does anybody make foam tips with a wider bore than the Comply's do you know?


----------



## Griffith

vector84 said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> Foams a size smaller than you'd normally use come up as a common suggestion, but if you can't get a good fit with that setup, won't be much help.  (bore size on the foams can make a pretty significant difference too)
> 
> ...



I have a variety of Comply-like memory foam/rubberized tips. I've tried some but not all of them. I also have an original comply Foam that don't have a cover, they are just open foam that make most earphones sound very airy and open, kind of like my Grado earphones.

So far, the medium-sized Spinfit seem to offer the best seal and slightly improved the sound quality but I will be doing further testing with other tips and then further A/B testing.

As for sources I tested the ZS5 with my Audio GD NFB-12, my Xiaomi Mi5 and the SMSL iDEA. The Audio GD is the source that colors sound the most but since all of them will receive similar coloration but it will be consistent throughout most of the AB testing but I might change to the SMSL if it proves to be an issue.


----------



## Mellowship

eaglesgift said:


> I can't remember what size I ordered - I've had them sitting around for ages. I guess I'll have to start again with a variety pack if I want to experiment. I fancy trying some of the round-shaped ones with the ZS5s etcetera as I have a feeling they might suit my ear better. Does anybody make foam tips with a wider bore than the Comply's do you know?


Try the Aliexpress tips. For little money you can order a lot of different tip sizes and colours, and they are very good quality. The t400 and 500 have a quite large bore. You can also cut some 1 or 2 mm off the tips with an exacto blade to make them fit perfectly.


----------



## vector84

Griffith said:


> As for sources I tested the ZS5 with my Audio GD NFB-12, my Xiaomi Mi5 and the SMSL iDEA. The Audio GD is the source that colors sound the most but since all of them will receive similar coloration but it will be consistent throughout most of the AB testing but I might change to the SMSL if it proves to be an issue.


Well it's not just source coloring, exactly - the ZS5 has no electronic crossover, so one would rather expect output impedance to have a pretty huge effect on the overall frequency response profile, not just damping / CSD or what have you.


----------



## dbaker1981

I'm quite excited for the zs6.  Anxious to hear the sonic differences between them and the zs5 my understanding is there basically the same but with metal case instead of plastic and from the looks of it maybe more venting.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

dbaker1981 said:


> I'm quite excited for the zs6.  Anxious to hear the sonic differences between them and the zs5 my understanding is there basically the same but with metal case instead of plastic and from the looks of it maybe more venting.



Also the driver configuration seems to be different. Being so similar, maybe the ZS5 "revision" is due to the merging of the production lines of ZS5 and ZS6 to further reduce production costs. In that case the ZS6 would be some sort of a premium version of the (new) ZS5. But I'm just speculating.


----------



## Griffith

vector84 said:


> Well it's not just source coloring, exactly - the ZS5 has no electronic crossover, so one would rather expect output impedance to have a pretty huge effect on the overall frequency response profile, not just damping / CSD or what have you.



Outside of my Audio GD's slight warm coloring there is no significant alteration of the sound and they don't seem to benefit from amplification a lot, at least to my ears.


----------



## 1clearhead

Has anyone here tried replacing the black star-line ear tips with the gray star-line ear tips from KZ instead?

Both silicone tips are slightly made different due to the texture and chemical mixture to get their color, and they even feel different as well. The outcome is a slightly different and improved sound signature with the gray star-line ear tips. They improve the sound in every way  --better sounding upper range and clarity, wider soundstage, better resolution, and tighter and quicker bass response is what you're getting. The gray star-line ear tips are here to stay and I made them the permanent ear tips for my KZ ZSE's.

....This is "a must try" if you have both the black and gray star-line tips to actually hear and tell the difference. Enjoy! 


-Clear


----------



## vector84

Griffith said:


> Outside of my Audio GD's slight warm coloring there is no significant alteration of the sound and they don't seem to benefit from amplification a lot, at least to my ears.


That's interesting and not something you hear about the ZS5 very often...

But it's the sort of thing you might expect to hear about the revised variant that likely includes a crossover... 
Can you see anything telling through the screen?


----------



## Griffith

vector84 said:


> That's interesting and not something you hear about the ZS5 very often...
> 
> But it's the sort of thing you might expect to hear about the revised variant that likely includes a crossover...
> Can you see anything telling through the screen?



I'm just trying to give an honest impression about what I'm experiencing, trying to find the best way to describe what's good and bad about the earphone to share useful information with other head-fiers and trying my best to ignore your veiled insults.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 2, 2017)

Griffith said:


> I'm just trying to give an honest impression about what I'm experiencing, trying to find the best way to describe what's good and bad about the earphone to share useful information with other head-fiers and trying my best to ignore your veiled insults.


No insult was intended at all and I'm quite sorry if I came off that way.

I'm just genuinely curious and thinking on the talk over the past few days that has been about how apparently new ZS5s started going out in early August.

Anyhow carry on, sorry to have offended you.


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> And people who have hairy earlobes. It totally kills the midrange. People should definitively post pics of their earlobes.



Earwax has just as much effect as hairy earlobes!

People should clean their ears before posting sound impressions, and include photos of the Qtips so we can all see how much earwax they had while they were listening.

Otherwise, their comments should be irrelevant.


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> And people who have hairy earlobes. It totally kills the midrange. People should definitively post pics of their earlobes.



There is a simple cure for that affliction.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Earwax has just as much effect as hairy earlobes!
> 
> People should clean their ears before posting sound impressions, and include photos of the Qtips so we can all see how much earwax they had while they were listening.
> 
> Otherwise, their comments should be irrelevant.



My audiologist advised "NEVER put anything in your ears!" Very few people understand how to safely clean their ears. A hot soapy clean in the shower while running the finger around the outer ear opening with out insertion. This is not my advice so don't point your arguments at me. I'm just doing a PSA. Qtips apparently built her summer house.


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> My audiologist advised "NEVER put anything in your ears!" Very few people understand how to safely clean their ears. A hot soapy clean in the shower while running the finger around the outer ear opening with out insertion. This is not my advice so don't point your arguments at me. I'm just doing a PSA. Qtips apparently built her summer house.



Oh, I'm just joking around as an ongoing response to the 'Comply or irrelevant' comment.


----------



## Griffith

vector84 said:


> No insult was intended at all and I'm quite sorry if I came off that way.
> 
> I'm just genuinely curious and thinking on the talk over the past few days that has been about how apparently new ZS5s started going out in early August.
> 
> Anyhow carry on, sorry to have offended you.



My unit was shipped to me on July the 12th and only arrived yesterday (yes, I know, quite a delay, but it seems to be a common occurrence these past few months).

I don't mind constructive criticism or even being outright corrected but snarkyness doesn't add anything useful to this thread. 

As much I like KZ earphones and find that they offer great value for money if you've been around head-fi for long enough you'll come to realize that often times a popular earphone will be praised to high heaven with some of their shortcomings being dismissed or ignored. While I'm not saying that the ZS5 is a bad earphone by any stretch: they have very impressive detail rendering and a lively sound that is, for the most part, controlled, they do have some flaws. On some tracks the bass can bleed into the track and hide certain sounds. On other tracks, particularly with male vocals or more laid back instrumentation they can sound recessed and a bit thin. With that said, there are tracks with which the ZS5 really shine and sound truly surprising and, in my opinion, excellent. At their best, these ZS5 sound like an earphone that punch way above their price point, but at their worst even some of the other KZ earphones sound a better a bit better.

They are great, but they aren't perfect, and I want to articulate that in as easy and verifiable of a way as I can. If you want to, or can, help me I appreciate any constructive criticism you can give. But if you can't, that's perfectly alright as well.


----------



## cirodts

I bought the zs5 at 32 euros and I have to say, that it is a fantastic ear, lively, detailed and has an excellent sound quality, for defects it does not have for the price it costs.


----------



## Griffith

While I was testing out different earbuds I accidentally ended up with a look that is functional and aesthetically pleasing (spinfits + silver cable). I thought you guys might appreciate how they look:


----------



## cirodts

amazing. I even got spinfits to get there


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> Oh, I'm just joking around as an ongoing response to the 'Comply or irrelevant' comment.



When you say something, no matter how ridiculous, be prepared for someone(s) to do just that.


----------



## vector84

Griffith said:


> My unit was shipped to me on July the 12th and only arrived yesterday (yes, I know, quite a delay, but it seems to be a common occurrence these past few months).
> 
> I don't mind constructive criticism or even being outright corrected but snarkyness doesn't add anything useful to this thread.
> 
> ...


Yikes, my intention was definitely not to try to downplay anything, so at the risk of just digging myself deeper, I'm going to take another shot at this, and try to limit the inane rambling I tend to let creep into my posts.

I would tend to agree that their presentation can be very polarizing - for me, many tracks are absolutely enchanting but others are just downright unacceptable.  I don't claim to know what I'm doing, but my attempts to EQ away the things that occasionally bother me about them have tended to do more harm to the tracks that already sounded good to me, while not really sufficiently fixing the problem areas.  I also have a couple (pretty low quality) sources that they just sound downright awful on at anything above very moderate volume levels, whether or not a track agrees with them.

My listening preferences align with them frequently enough that I find them to be a joy to use most of the time and well worth the price, but they're certainly not perfect.


----------



## peskypesky

vector84 said:


> My listening preferences align with them frequently enough that I find them to be a joy to use most of the time and well worth the price, but they're certainly not perfect.



Yes, my girlfriend is a gorgeous super-model, and has a degree in biochemistry from Yale....but she farts.


----------



## trumpethead

1clearhead said:


> Has anyone here tried replacing the black star-line ear tips with the gray star-line ear tips from KZ instead?
> 
> Both silicone tips are slightly made different due to the texture and chemical mixture to get their color, and they even feel different as well. The outcome is a slightly different and improved sound signature with the gray star-line ear tips. They improve the sound in every way  --better sounding upper range and clarity, wider soundstage, better resolution, and tighter and quicker bass response is what you're getting. The gray star-line ear tips are here to stay and I made them the permanent ear tips for my KZ ZSE's.
> 
> ...



I agree! Definitely prefer the gray.


----------



## groucho69

peskypesky said:


> Yes, my girlfriend is a gorgeous super-model, and has a degree in biochemistry from Yale....but she farts.



So she is your perfect match!


----------



## Griffith

vector84 said:


> Yikes, my intention was definitely not to try to downplay anything, so at the risk of just digging myself deeper, I'm going to take another shot at this, and try to limit the inane rambling I tend to let creep into my posts.
> 
> I would tend to agree that their presentation can be very polarizing - for me, many tracks are absolutely enchanting but others are just downright unacceptable.  I don't claim to know what I'm doing, but my attempts to EQ away the things that occasionally bother me about them have tended to do more harm to the tracks that already sounded good to me, while not really sufficiently fixing the problem areas.  I also have a couple (pretty low quality) sources that they just sound downright awful on at anything above very moderate volume levels, whether or not a track agrees with them.
> 
> My listening preferences align with them frequently enough that I find them to be a joy to use most of the time and well worth the price, but they're certainly not perfect.



I had mixed results with equalizing as well. You can get away with giving them a 2/3 db adjustment without ruining anything, and while that can slightly improve some of their spikes and dips, it's not enough to solve them entirely and when I do so I tend to lose a bit of the natural sound, despite my best attempts at correcting it.

What's upsetting about the ZS5 is that despite them having qualities that are better than any other KZ earphone is that unlike all the other models of theirs I tried, some songs just sound really dull with them while others are completely incredible. They also have another issue I found which is when tracks have a strong bass, the ZS5's bass tends to bleed over and blanket over other details. It's not as tight or as controlled as, for example, the ZS3.

But when I think of this criticism, and think about how much I paid for them, it's hard to be too harsh on them. Given the ZS6's price and given the ZS5's glaring flaws, despite being very competent in other regards, I think that KZ's strategy of making more expensive earphones will cost them a lot of the leeway and appreciation, the "slack" people cut them. At their current price the ZS6 is awfully close to the territory of other IEMs that are really really well regarded like the Fiio F5 and the Hifiman RE400. Unless they managed fix most of the ZS5's issues, which I kind of doubt, I think the ZS6 will be a hard-sell for consumers outside of their most adept fans.


----------



## Griffith

1clearhead said:


> Has anyone here tried replacing the black star-line ear tips with the gray star-line ear tips from KZ instead?
> 
> Both silicone tips are slightly made different due to the texture and chemical mixture to get their color, and they even feel different as well. The outcome is a slightly different and improved sound signature with the gray star-line ear tips. They improve the sound in every way  --better sounding upper range and clarity, wider soundstage, better resolution, and tighter and quicker bass response is what you're getting. The gray star-line ear tips are here to stay and I made them the permanent ear tips for my KZ ZSE's.
> 
> ...



I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade but which eartips best fit an earphone varies from person to person and even from earphone to earphone. I keep various different ones at hand and try a bunch until I find one that works but there is no silver bullet for earphone tips. It's a trial and error process.


----------



## groucho69

Griffith said:


> You have a lot of irrational doubts, like for example not believing earbuds can sound good. You're welcome to keep those doubts but unless you have something to back up your opinion then they have absolutely no value.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let's see what the price is for ZS6 in a month.


----------



## Griffith

groucho69 said:


> Let's see what the price is for ZS6 in a month.



I'm more interested in how they sound. The price, even at its current level, is secondary if the sound is significantly improved.


----------



## Holypal

Griffith said:


> You have a lot of irrational doubts, like for example not believing earbuds can sound good. You're welcome to keep those doubts but unless you have something to back up your opinion then they have absolutely no value.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would not compare ZS5/6 with RE400 or Fidelio S2, which can be found very cheap these days. RE400 is very smooth, but lack of resolution and so-so soundstage. 

For hybrid iems, like ZS5/6, I'm looking for a different sound signature. And at that price range, some of the 3 or 4 drivers iems failed to impress me. I'm talking about **** DT2+, Xiaomi Hybrid and BGVP DM5.  They all have flaws. ZS5 sounds quite good. But it can't handle higher power.


----------



## mochill

Shozy X aaw hibiki


----------



## randomnin

mochill said:


> Shozy X aaw hibiki


Wait, are you getting paid for this?


----------



## mochill

Nope , I paid for the iem


----------



## Arkady Duntov (Sep 2, 2017)

Holypal said:


> I would not compare ZS5/6 with RE400 or Fidelio S2, which can be found very cheap these days. RE400 is very smooth, but lack of resolution and so-so soundstage.



Where can I find a very cheap Fidelio S2? I killed mine a few months ago and the cheapest price on Amazon US is nearly $180! (If memory serves, the ZS5 isn't even in the same league as the S2.)


----------



## chickenmoon

Arkady Duntov said:


> Where can I find a very cheap Fidelio S2? I killed mine a few months ago and the cheapest price on Amazon US is nearly $180! (If memory serves, the ZS5 isn't even in the same league as the S2.)


New & sealed Light Blue S2 on eBay or Amazon UK for £50 or less.


----------



## mixolyd

Griffith said:


> Given the ZS6's price and given the ZS5's glaring flaws, despite being very competent in other regards, I think that KZ's strategy of making more expensive earphones will cost them a lot of the leeway and appreciation, the "slack" people cut them. At their current price the ZS6 is awfully close to the territory of other IEMs that are really really well regarded like the Fiio F5 and the Hifiman RE400.



The Firo F5 costs more than twice the price of the ZS6 from what I've seen.  Unless KZ mess up the ZS6 somehow, it's still going to be a VFM king as per usual for KZs.


----------



## Griffith

mixolyd said:


> The Firo F5 costs more than twice the price of the ZS6 from what I've seen.  Unless KZ mess up the ZS6 somehow, it's still going to be a VFM king as per usual for KZs.



The ZS6 right now costs 40 euros. Today the Fiio F5 cost close to 70 but yesterday (during the sale) they were at the same price.

The VSonic VSD3S which are fairly well regarded cost 43 euros.

The TFZ Series/Exclusive 3 cost 50 euros.

Those are the earphones the ZS6 will, or should, be compared against at its price point. I don't have many doubts they will have an enjoyable sound, but at that price range they have a lot more to prove than the ZS5 at half the price.


----------



## mixolyd

The ZS6 is available for 27.26 EUR on ali today.  I think the pricing is fine: basically an extra tenner to have a less cheap/tacky shell than the ZS5.


----------



## cirodts

I have a question. the old version of the zs5 also has 2 balanced armor. only in different positions?


----------



## Griffith

mixolyd said:


> The ZS6 is available for 27.26 EUR on ali today.  I think the pricing is fine: basically an extra tenner to have a less cheap/tacky shell than the ZS5.



Haven't seen them nowhere near that price. At that price your argument makes more sense, at 40 euros, they have a lot to prove.


----------



## RyanM

Griffith said:


> The ZS6 right now costs 40 euros. Today the Fiio F5 cost close to 70 but yesterday (during the sale) they were at the same price.
> 
> The VSonic VSD3S which are fairly well regarded cost 43 euros.
> 
> ...



+1. I'd also throw in the Whizzer A15 because it's excellent.


----------



## RyanM

mixolyd said:


> The ZS6 is available for 27.26 EUR on ali today.  I think the pricing is fine: basically an extra tenner to have a less cheap/tacky shell than the ZS5.



I wonder if the shell isn't plastic with fake plastic screws?


----------



## mixolyd

Griffith said:


> Haven't seen them nowhere near that price. At that price your argument makes more sense, at 40 euros, they have a lot to prove.



ZS6 under £25 (unmiced)
http://s.aliexpress.com/rUzAn6jA

EDIT: open in the Ali app to get best price


----------



## Arkady Duntov

chickenmoon said:


> New & sealed Light Blue S2 on eBay or Amazon UK for £50 or less.



At £44 (third-party seller) or £99 (Amazon UK), I was ready to buy. Unfortunately for me, neither will ship to the US. Bummer.


----------



## Griffith (Sep 2, 2017)

RyanM said:


> I wonder if the shell isn't plastic with fake plastic screws?



It's described as a metal shell on Aliexpress, I doubt they'd lie about that. But I haven't seen them anywhere close to the price mixolyd mentioned.

I went to Taobao and the ZS6 doesn't even seem to be on sale there.

However I did find out they are selling 3 new color variants of the ZST with interesting color schemes: https://world.tmall.com/item/538357...995ceaff9b8708984a0aec20d92&scene=taobao_shop


----------



## mixolyd

That third colour scheme: the moustachioed earlobe look, sure to impress.


----------



## snip3r77

mixolyd said:


> ZS6 under £25 (unmiced)
> http://s.aliexpress.com/rUzAn6jA
> 
> EDIT: open in the Ali app to get best price


I will still wait for GB and reviews


----------



## Francisk (Sep 2, 2017)

Arkady Duntov said:


> Where can I find a very cheap Fidelio S2? I killed mine a few months ago and the cheapest price on Amazon US is nearly $180! (If memory serves, the ZS5 isn't even in the same league as the S2.)


In all honesty, it all depends on what you're looking for in the sound signature. If you love your mids then the Philips Fidelio S2 has slightly more forward mids. I own a pair of S2 myself but I find that the treble extension and micro details are inferior to my ZS5 paired to the Comply T400 tips. My combination of the ZS5 and Comply T400 tips cost less than the S2. In my opinion, the ZS5 performs far better than the S2 in many ways. I'm waiting for my ZS6 that I just purchased from AliExpress ($33.66) to arrive and let's see if there's any improvement over the ZS5.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 2, 2017)

mixolyd said:


> ZS6 under £25 (unmiced)
> http://s.aliexpress.com/rUzAn6jA
> 
> EDIT: open in the Ali app to get best price


Purchased the black color unit


----------



## vector84

Griffith said:


> They also have another issue I found which is when tracks have a strong bass, the ZS5's bass tends to bleed over and blanket over other details. It's not as tight or as controlled as, for example, the ZS3.


Might be worth trying a larger or longer tip to get a shallower fit.

Personally I found spinfits to contribute a lot to bass bleed due to a deeper fit causing the back vent to be closed off - but obviously that's pretty anatomy dependent.


----------



## randomnin (Sep 2, 2017)

Griffith said:


> ...
> However I did find out they are selling 3 new color variants of the ZST with interesting color schemes: https://world.tmall.com/item/538357...995ceaff9b8708984a0aec20d92&scene=taobao_shop
> 
> ...


The first design that says "The people's dream doesn't end!!" - is that a reference from somewhere?


----------



## Francisk

Griffith said:


> They also have another issue I found which is when tracks have a strong bass, the ZS5's bass tends to bleed over and blanket over other details. It's not as tight or as controlled as, for example, the ZS3.


I find that the ZS3's bass is overly bloated with more bleed to the mids than the ZS5. Maybe you should try pairing your ZS5 with a one size smaller Comply T400 tips and you'll get a far tighter bass and no bleeding to the mids.


----------



## 1clearhead

trumpethead said:


> I agree! Definitely prefer the gray.


+1 Glad I'm not the only one hearing the difference. Cheers!


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 3, 2017)

Griffith said:


> I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade but which eartips best fit an earphone varies from person to person and even from earphone to earphone. I keep various different ones at hand and try a bunch until I find one that works but there is no silver bullet for earphone tips. It's a trial and error process.


True. Best would be the "spin-fits" since they tend to bend or flex at the center for a better fit.

Link:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=537762634815&ali_refid=a3_430582_1006:1123834630:N:B＆O+H5+耳机套:30e9199f22765622ce7a67131508cd07&ali_trackid=1_30e9199f22765622ce7a67131508cd07&spm=a230r.1.14.11.76bf523Wys0vk#detail


 


*Curtesy of Spinfits

-Clear


----------



## Francisk (Sep 3, 2017)

Arkady Duntov said:


> Where can I find a very cheap Fidelio S2? I killed mine a few months ago and the cheapest price on Amazon US is nearly $180! (If memory serves, the ZS5 isn't even in the same league as the S2.)


Here's the link to Z Reviews' review of the Philip Fidelio S2: 
Forward to 21:40 of the video review to head straight to the Fidelio S2 review. My impression of my Philips Fidelio S2 is not far off from the review  In my opinion, the ZS5 paired with the Comply T400 tips walks all over the Fidelio S2...especially for the asking price


----------



## ifunes39

Hi, has anyone been able to compare ks5 vs  ks6? Thank you


----------



## maxxevv

Think many of us are still waiting for impressions on the ES3...   Think the ZS6 is at least a few weeks away, or at least some may be on the postal plane somewhere already.


----------



## 1clearhead

Seems like QKZ (Quality Knowledge Zenith) has their own version of the KZ KZE. They go by the name of *QKZ KD8*. I'll be purchasing these very soon to see how they compare and if the wires has less microphonics. Though, it does seem to have better upgraded wires (including the L-jack) and a hardcase storage case to go with it. I'm just too curious....

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...vcc2gh&id=557613078211&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail

Here are some picks of "a little less retro look"....


 


*Curtesy of QKZ

-Clear


----------



## skeej

Griffith said:


> Outside of my Audio GD's slight warm coloring there is no significant alteration of the sound and they don't seem to benefit from amplification a lot, at least to my ears.



Well, considering the fact that your amp has an output impedance of 2 Ohms, it might be a less than ideal amp for the ZS5. It's hard to find hard specs on the ZS5, as the stated impedance ranges from 8 to 18 Ohms on various websites. With my limited knowledge I would imagine that the different drivers in the ZS5 have different impedances, and even the drivers individually have impedance variance across the frequency spectrum. Going by the 1/8 rule of thumb, it's plausible that the NFB-12 doesn't achieve ideal damping and frequency response with the ZS5, so that's possibly why you're not getting much more out of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty new to this stuff


----------



## chompchomps

Griffith said:


> It's described as a metal shell on Aliexpress, I doubt they'd lie about that. But I haven't seen them anywhere close to the price mixolyd mentioned.
> 
> I went to Taobao and the ZS6 doesn't even seem to be on sale there.
> 
> However I did find out they are selling 3 new color variants of the ZST with interesting color schemes: https://world.tmall.com/item/538357...995ceaff9b8708984a0aec20d92&scene=taobao_shop



The one with jap words sure looks good! urgh got me tempted to order! hows the ZSE compared to the ZST?


----------



## Griffith (Sep 3, 2017)

skeej said:


> Well, considering the fact that your amp has an output impedance of 2 Ohms, it might be a less than ideal amp for the ZS5. It's hard to find hard specs on the ZS5, as the stated impedance ranges from 8 to 18 Ohms on various websites. With my limited knowledge I would imagine that the different drivers in the ZS5 have different impedances, and even the drivers individually have impedance variance across the frequency spectrum. Going by the 1/8 rule of thumb, it's plausible that the NFB-12 doesn't achieve ideal damping and frequency response with the ZS5, so that's possibly why you're not getting much more out of them.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty new to this stuff



I've tried it with my 3 main sources, the Audio GD, the SMSL iDEA and my smartphone. Outside of the Audio GD's slightly warmish coloration, I didn't notice any major differences between the three devices in terms of sound. They are very easy to drive, which was a bit surprising considering how many drivers they have, but that's just it, or at least my experience.

I'm far from being a technical expert, but I highly doubt the issues I'm noticing with the output have anything to do with my sources.


----------



## Griffith

1clearhead said:


> True. Best would be the "spin-fits" since they tend to bend or flex at the center for a better fit.
> 
> Link:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=537762634815&ali_refid=a3_430582_1006:1123834630:N:B＆O+H5+耳机套:30e9199f22765622ce7a67131508cd07&ali_trackid=1_30e9199f22765622ce7a67131508cd07&spm=a230r.1.14.11.76bf523Wys0vk#detail
> ...



The Spinfits work quite well with the ZST (which I had trouble getting a good seal with) and the ZS5.


----------



## Skullophile

Reading the last bunch of pages it's funny people can call the ZS5 good value for money. My pair is sibilant, wooly and the treble sounds like the drummer is using a pencil as a drum stick. Awful tuning in my opinion.

If another company made an iem that sounded like this I think they would be shunned. But because we all wanna see KZ do well and become giant killers most just forgive their flaws.

Rather than me complain any more I'm going to open them up and rip out a Ba and a dynamic and see if they're contributing to the sound.

Has anyone done this yet?


----------



## Griffith

Skullophile said:


> Reading the last bunch of pages it's funny people can call the ZS5 good value for money. My pair is sibilant, wooly and the treble sounds like the drummer is using a pencil as a drum stick. Awful tuning in my opinion.
> 
> If another company made an iem that sounded like this I think they would be shunned. But because we all wanna see KZ do well and become giant killers most just forgive their flaws.
> 
> ...



Can you give me an example of a track where the treble sounds like that?

I'm listening to the ZS5 right now and I've been one of the more critical members towards them, but the treble in them isn't one of their weaknesses in my opinion.


----------



## HiFiChris

Skullophile said:


> Reading the last bunch of pages it's funny people can call the ZS5 good value for money. My pair is sibilant, wooly and the treble sounds like the drummer is using a pencil as a drum stick. Awful tuning in my opinion.
> 
> If another company made an iem that sounded like this I think they would be shunned. But because we all wanna see KZ do well and become giant killers most just forgive their flaws.



Haha, that's the typical "fun"-trimmed u-shaped signature with additional brightness in the upper mids. Love it or hate it.
Works very well for EDM and modern Pop without any serious focus on vocals. 

Signature-wise, the 1More E1001 is very close by the way (the only difference is that its mids are a little less distant/hollow).


----------



## Skullophile

Any track will do, the ZS5 treble is off pitch. Sounds unnatural imho. Go A to B with a neutral iem and it should be clear as can be.


----------



## Griffith

Skullophile said:


> Any track will do, the ZS5 treble is off pitch. Sounds unnatural imho. Go A to B with a neutral iem and it should be clear as can be.



Unfortunately, right now I don't have a good reference earphone. But I did try A/Bing with some of the more neutral-response earphones I have and listened to various tracks. I've noticed that on some tracks the high pitched sounds can sound a bit recessed but to my ears they don't sound off-pitched and I'm being as frank as I can. I tried various different artists' to see if it would be perceptible with some of them but I was unable to.

Unless you give me a more specific example of a track in which the treble sounds "off" to you, I have to say that I haven't found that to be the case.


----------



## maxxevv

Which IEM would you describe as being "neutral" then ??? 



Skullophile said:


> Any track will do, the ZS5 treble is off pitch. Sounds unnatural imho. Go A to B with a neutral iem and it should be clear as can be.


----------



## mixolyd

Skullophile said:


> Any track will do, the ZS5 treble is off pitch. Sounds unnatural imho. Go A to B with a neutral iem and it should be clear as can be.




I love the treble of the ZS5, I find it to be really outstanding.  The treble has a fast, hard edge to it that is missing from the iems I can compare: Havi B3 and ATH CKR9 as well as my cans.  To me this treble is closer to what I hear from synths and guitars in real life as well as from my studio monitors.

It's seems to me that you're u are jumping to a conclusion that these are bad or average iems based on a sample size of one.


----------



## vladstef

Skullophile said:


> Any track will do, the ZS5 treble is off pitch. Sounds unnatural imho. Go A to B with a neutral iem and it should be clear as can be.



I agree 100%. It's extended and almost perfectly clear (amazing for the price) but something always seems off. You get used to it to some extend after 10 mins of listening but not fully, meaning that this is not just some regular coloration but an actual mistake in the sound tuning. However, I don't think that this could possibly be a deal breaker for anyone, ZS5 does many things well enough to compete with more expensive IEMs and its value should continue to be praised.


----------



## jant71

A cheap multi driver hybrid will not perform consistent across gear both due to the set up and probably the QC tolerances. We can go all day or all year about I hear this and I hear that or don't esp. for small things and no one is actually wrong. It may have this flaw or may not and YMMV and most likely will vary so all you can do is try and report what you hear. The next person may get something better from them so one can say what they don't like but can't really tell another what they will hear. Of course if we get a majority consensus about a flaw then we can put it in the proven column.


----------



## Griffith

mixolyd said:


> It's seems to me that you're u are jumping to a conclusion that these are bad or average iems based on a sample size of one.



To be fair, most of us are basing our judgement from sample sizes of one.


----------



## mixolyd

Griffith said:


> To be fair, most of us are basing our judgement from sample sizes of one.



Yes but we're not so outlandishly confident in our perspective as to say that those who disagree are deluding themselves because they want KZ to do well.  I don't give a monkeys about it KZ I just like absurdly cheap upgrades and the ZS5 have provided that despite being flawed - as is every other iem I've tried.


----------



## Griffith

mixolyd said:


> Yes but we're not so outlandishly confident in our perspective as to say that those who disagree are deluding themselves because they want KZ to do well.  I don't give a monkeys about it KZ I just like absurdly cheap upgrades and the ZS5 have provided that despite being flawed - as is every other iem I've tried.



No argument from me there, I'm just saying we shouldn't be quick to dismiss arguments whether they are positive or negative. More often than not I've been burned by overly positive comments in this community and ended up with gear I either don't touch or have since-then sold. Constructive criticism should be encouraged, not shunned or dismissed. I'm not saying you did either of those, but coming to an understanding is better than not coming to one at all.


----------



## mixolyd

Griffith said:


> No argument from me there, I'm just saying we shouldn't be quick to dismiss arguments whether they are positive or negative. More often than not I've been burned by overly positive comments in this community and ended up with gear I either don't touch or have since-then sold. Constructive criticism should be encouraged, not shunned or dismissed. I'm not saying you did either of those, but coming to an understanding is better than not coming to one at all.



You're right, but is this really constructive criticism? 



Skullophile said:


> Reading the last bunch of pages it's funny people can call the ZS5 good value for money. My pair is sibilant, wooly and the treble sounds like the drummer is using a pencil as a drum stick. Awful tuning in my opinion.
> 
> If another company made an iem that sounded like this I think they would be shunned. But because we all wanna see KZ do well and become giant killers most just forgive their flaws.
> 
> ...



Or just trolling, using ignorance as a screen for being destructive?


----------



## africanus

FWIW, I received my KS5 a couple of weeks ago. My unit is the one with the two BAs in the nozzle. Amazing sound. Detailed and wide frequency extension. Lesser but more controlled bass compared to ZST. Nothing against the ZST, but the ZS5 is more accurate to the source. Great value in terms or SQ/price. If you wonder, I have already ordered both KSE and ES3. Waiting for reviews about KS6.

As a side note: as some people have commented, KZ tips change their shape/stiffness with time. If fact, and this is the first time it occurs to me, I've had to use them asymmetrically: medium in the left ear and large in the right ear.

Hope this helps


----------



## randomnin

You have two BA in the nozzle? That's a first here, if I'm not mistaking. Where'd you order?


----------



## Francisk (Sep 3, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> Reading the last bunch of pages it's funny people can call the ZS5 good value for money. My pair is sibilant, wooly and the treble sounds like the drummer is using a pencil as a drum stick. Awful tuning in my opinion.
> 
> If another company made an iem that sounded like this I think they would be shunned. But because we all wanna see KZ do well and become giant killers most just forgive their flaws.
> 
> ...


Before your rip your ZS5 apart, try pairing it with the Comply T400 and you'll notice a great improvement in sound quality. The stock KZ tips do not do justice to the ZS5. Also make sure that the cables are plugged in correctly or else you'll hear an "out of phase" sound that is very unnatural like the one you described.


----------



## Francisk

africanus said:


> FWIW, I received my KS5 a couple of weeks ago. My unit is the one with the two BAs in the nozzle. Amazing sound. Detailed and wide frequency extension. Lesser but more controlled bass compared to ZST. Nothing against the ZST, but the ZS5 is more accurate to the source. Great value in terms or SQ/price. If you wonder, I have already ordered both KSE and ES3. Waiting for reviews about KS6.
> 
> As a side note: as some people have commented, KZ tips change their shape/stiffness with time. If fact, and this is the first time it occurs to me, I've had to use them asymmetrically: medium in the left ear and large in the right ear.
> 
> Hope this helps


Please share some photos of the dual BA at the ZS5 nozzle with us. Thanks in advance.


----------



## africanus

randomnin said:


> You have two BA in the nozzle? That's a first here, if I'm not mistaking. Where'd you order?



I think some pictures have already been published, I ordered from Gearbest


----------



## mixolyd

africanus said:


> I think some pictures have already been published, I ordered from Gearbest



I'm pretty sure he's asking for some pics you've taken yourself, of your ZS5's.  So far all we have are some 3D renders from KZ and a second-hand, unofficial quote which may be inaccurate as they have been in the past.  There may not be any dual-ba-in-nozzle ZS5's in the wild as yet, or ever.


----------



## africanus

mixolyd said:


> I'm pretty sure he's asking for some pics you've taken yourself, of your ZS5's.  So far all we have are some 3D renders from KZ and a second-hand, unofficial quote which may be inaccurate as they have been in the past.  There may not be any dual-ba-in-nozzle ZS5's in the wild as yet, or ever.



I saw two bright circles within the nozzle under the sunlight and I took them for BAs. Maybe I am wrong. Unfortunately, I have no photo equipment with flash and macro capabilities. I'll have another look tomorrow and report any news.


----------



## esfrost (Sep 3, 2017)

Here is my try at capturing the number of BAs in the nozzle, its up to you to decide it, one or two.  I’d say it is one. Got the ZS5 in august, ordered it from GB.


----------



## vladstef

esfrost said:


> Here is my try at capturing the number of BAs in the nozzle, its up to you to decide it, one or two.  I’d say it is one. Got the ZS5 in august, ordered it from GB.


That looks like 2 honestly. Right one is 100% a BA driver, left one might be something on the mesh and not a driver, but it does have a black center so I am leaning towards it being a second BA.
Come on people, we need someone to confirm that we really do have 2 circles on the second version because we are not even sure that 2 circles is something that makes a difference, 2 BA drivers could have a single nozzle, as previously discussed.


----------



## cirodts

but the old version of the zs5 also has 2 BAs?


----------



## vladstef

cirodts said:


> but the old version of the zs5 also has 2 BAs?


Yes, one of them being in the main body and one in the nozzle. New version has 2 of them in the nozzle + they are different than before.


----------



## cirodts

vladstef said:


> Yes, one of them being in the main body and one in the nozzle. New version has 2 of them in the nozzle + they are different than before.





vladstef said:


> Yes, one of them being in the main body and one in the nozzle. New version has 2 of them in the nozzle + they are different than before.


thanks


----------



## Griffith

You see people, this is what listening to music through an infamously bad source turns you into.


----------



## gwompki

Any reports on the ES3 yet?  Flash sale for 9.99 right now on GB.  I'm very tempted.


----------



## Fox2twenty

gwompki said:


> Any reports on the ES3 yet?  Flash sale for 9.99 right now on GB.  I'm very tempted.



Dang, I already ordered..


----------



## Slater

Griffith said:


> You see people, this is what listening to music through an infamously bad source turns you into.



Can you summarize that dissertation into 1-2 sentences? I don't have 2 hours to spare right now.


----------



## Griffith

slaterlovesspam said:


> Can you summarize that dissertation into 1-2 sentences? I don't have 2 hours to spare right now.



It's irrelevant for this thread. I was only poking a certain member whose sole intent in this community seems to be peskiness.


----------



## Arkady Duntov

Francisk said:


> In all honesty, it all depends on what you're looking for in the sound signature. If you love your mids then the Philips Fidelio S2 has slightly more forward mids.



I don't really know how to describe what pleases me. I think it's:

* Clear
* Detailed
* Resolving
* Neutral to slightly warm



Francisk said:


> I own a pair of S2 myself but I find that the treble extension and micro details are inferior to my ZS5 paired to the Comply T400 tips. My combination of the ZS5 and Comply T400 tips cost less than the S2. In my opinion, the ZS5 performs far better than the S2 in many ways.



I haven't heard the S2 in many months, so maybe I don't remember. I tried the ZS5 with some double-flange tips from Earphones Plus (purchased through Amazon.) I also tried SpinFit CP-240 tips but their bore is too large and they came off in my ears

In both cases, I found that the ZS5 wasn't really for me. However, in case it makes a difference, I'm gong see (hear) if some break-in makes a difference.

I don't have any 400-series Comply tips left and, in any case, they never really fit me very well.


----------



## maxxevv

I only have the ZSE that's from KZ. But they are not exactly neutral nor the best for details. Though are really enjoyable for most pop genres. 

But if you're open to alternatives, I would say the Urbanfun Hi-Fi  ( the 1 Ba + 1 DD version)  and the Adax HT-06.  
Both have plenty of detail, sufficient bass for most forms of music and pretty good sound stage and separation.  And they are both plenty cheap. The Urbanfun,  I got them at just under US$20, the Adax at around the same.  

Between the 2, the Adax will sound slightly warmer but just a wee bit but has a noticeable wider soundstage.  

The Urbanfun having the edge when it comes to consistent detail resolving, the Adax actually can have some issues with poor recordings. Some poorly done recordings actually sounded very weird on it due to its somewhat extended soundstage. 

I'm still waiting for my CI880 ( which is supposed to be of similar profile but wider soundstage to the Urbanfun) to come in, so can't give any comments for that yet. Again, that is under US$20/-.


----------



## themindfreak (Sep 4, 2017)

Arkady Duntov said:


> I don't really know how to describe what pleases me. I think it's:
> 
> * Clear
> * Detailed
> ...


I think the Audio Tech IM02 fits your bill perfectly lol. Ticks all 4 of those points too perfectly. ( PS even though this is a KZ thread)


----------



## Vidal

themindfreak said:


> I think the Audio Tech IM02 fits your bill perfectly lol. Ticks all 4 of those points too perfectly. ( PS even though this is a KZ thread)



At 10 times the price of the ZS5


----------



## Vidal

Has anyone seen the *metal* shells confirmed in a Aliexpress listing yet? I was looking closely at the pictures and they still look plastic to my eyes - could be completely wrong but none of the listing seem to mention the shell material.


----------



## maxxevv (Sep 4, 2017)

Thinking a lot of people are still waiting for the ES3 to show up first at this point. 

Speaking of which, the Gearbest flash sale prices for it are pretty enticing !!!  (sub US$10 !!)  

https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-kz-earphones-special-1556.html


----------



## Griffith (Sep 4, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> Thinking a lot of people are still waiting for the ES3 to show up first at this point.
> 
> Speaking of which, the Gearbest flash sale prices for it are pretty enticing !!!  (sub US$10 !!)
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-kz-earphones-special-1556.html[/QUOTE




Just as a heads up. Outside of some flash sales that offer more enticing discounts for very limited quantities of products Gearbest puts its products on sale, most of them, every other week.

If you miss a particular sale of theirs it's not a big deal and their sales discounts aren't spectacular anyway. If you want my advice, hold your money until someone reviews them unless the $10 are completely expendable to you.


----------



## Griffith

Vidal said:


> Has anyone seen the *metal* shells confirmed in a Aliexpress listing yet? I was looking closely at the pictures and they still look plastic to my eyes - could be completely wrong but none of the listing seem to mention the shell material.



From what I can tell, most sellers of the ZS6 don't actually have them yet. All the sales pictures are the same and some sellers say that the listing is a pre-sale for the ZS6 which will ship in a couple or weeks, give or take a few days.

We will need to wait at least until then for some confirmation I believe.


----------



## Fox2twenty




----------



## Philip-DD

gwompki said:


> Any reports on the ES3 yet?  Flash sale for 9.99 right now on GB.  I'm very tempted.



Tempted?  
I gave in and ordered a second pair of the ES3s for € 7.59 (had € 1.00 worth of "points"). This time in colour black-purple. And comes with an extra pouch as gift. For my first one, which I haven't even received yet, the black-blue colour version, i paid around €14.50 bucks. 

Today I received KZ-HD9, came even with a KZ-Hardcase included. Seller is Ali/KZ-Official-Store. Straight out of the box great sounding and very light and comfortable. Damage: € 5,43


----------



## esfrost

Got this spec list for the ZS6 from a shopee seller. Check it out.


----------



## BrunoC

Sound like very good specs to me.

It would be interesting to have official specs from KZ regarding the ZS5, so we can compare with the ZS6.
For example, one thing that bugs me is if the ZS5 has got a crossover or not.


----------



## esfrost

Okay, from the same seller. Spec list for the ZS5.


----------



## vladstef

I am very interested in this Knowles 30095 BA. Rose Mini2 (around 100USD) has the same one and people are mostly ok with it, some say it's sibilant, some that it extends well and isn't bad at all. ZS5 now offers 2 of these BAs (at 5 times lower price, go figure...), it is probably going to fix some of the irregularities that ZS5 v1 had with highs. Obviously, if things aren't properly tuned, they could put 5 of these BAs and achieve nothing. They are both in the nozzle with nothing to block their sound, I am very optimistic. Same goes for ZS6.


----------



## Skullophile

Ok so I tried complys with my ZS5 V1 and it sounded a little better up top. 
I still have to take them apart and disconnect the BA that's not in the nozzle. Because I said I was going to. Here we go.

 

So I cracked open the shell with some tiny screwdrivers. Then removed that square piece of paper.


At the bottom there's what looks like a ba sticking out of that blue gunk. So I disconnected those two wires going I to it.
 

Two wires sticking out now. A green and a red.
 

Taped the wired to the plastic and taped the shell back on.
 
Plugged them in and....


They still work and I don't notice any significant difference between left and right. Later on I will disconnect the wires from the dd that's not in the nozzle. Since it might make sense if the sound is coming from the nozzle only.


----------



## VinceHill24

vladstef said:


> I am very interested in this Knowles 30095 BA. Rose Mini2 (around 100USD) has the same one and people are mostly ok with it, some say it's sibilant, some that it extends well and isn't bad at all. ZS5 now offers 2 of these BAs (at 5 times lower price, go figure...), it is probably going to fix some of the irregularities that ZS5 v1 had with highs. Obviously, if things aren't properly tuned, they could put 5 of these BAs and achieve nothing. They are both in the nozzle with nothing to block their sound, I am very optimistic. Same goes for ZS6.


The BA fyi is not a Knowles BA. This is a very common case in China IEM scene. Many manufacturer do not actually use Knowles BA in their IEM. Most are copycat BA which most of the time goes by the same name and there are currently 2 biggest BA manufacturer in China whereby many brands actually uses their BA and some of the BA code is actually named after Knowles BA model. Very blatant copy indeed but many in Chinese forums have said the performances of these China made BA are not up to par with a real Knowles BA but because they are cheap so a lot of time these Chinese IEM manufacturer just uses them instead of Knowles. Ever wonder what happened to Magaosi which had kinda like disappeared ? One of the reason is coz some buyer decided to open up the shell and when they realised the BA is not the Knowles BA as advertised so there they go reputation down the drain. So i think KZ is being careful for not making false claims on their BA driver coz it's not stated that it is Knowled anywhere. Some other cheap brands like **** which claims that they uses Knowles makes me feel doubtful too now.


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> I am very interested in this Knowles 30095 BA. Rose Mini2 (around 100USD) has the same one and people are mostly ok with it, some say it's sibilant, some that it extends well and isn't bad at all. ZS5 now offers 2 of these BAs (at 5 times lower price, go figure...), it is probably going to fix some of the irregularities that ZS5 v1 had with highs. Obviously, if things aren't properly tuned, they could put 5 of these BAs and achieve nothing. They are both in the nozzle with nothing to block their sound, I am very optimistic. Same goes for ZS6.



They need to tune it nicely. Hope they make it better with the ZS6


----------



## snip3r77

VinceHill24 said:


> The BA fyi is not a Knowles BA. This is a very common case in China IEM scene. Many manufacturer do not actually use Knowles BA in their IEM. Most are copycat BA which most of the time goes by the same name and there are currently 2 biggest BA manufacturer in China whereby many brands actually uses their BA and some of the BA code is actually named after Knowles BA model. Very blatant copy indeed but many in Chinese forums have said the performances of these China made BA are not up to par with a real Knowles BA but because they are cheap so a lot of time these Chinese IEM manufacturer just uses them instead of Knowles. Ever wonder what happened to Magaosi which had kinda like disappeared ? One of the reason is coz some buyer decided to open up the shell and when they realised the BA is not the Knowles BA as advertised so there they go reputation down the drain. So i think KZ is being careful for not making false claims on their BA driver coz it's not stated that it is Knowled anywhere. Some other cheap brands like **** which claims that they uses Knowles makes me feel doubtful too now.



Luckily didn't buy the Magaosi


----------



## Octave0

KZ ES3 Arrived this morning, never listened to them yet ....


----------



## TheWongWrong

Octave0 said:


> KZ ES3 Arrived this morning, never listened to them yet ....


You've got your ZSTs plugged in wrongly friend


----------



## Octave0

TheWongWrong said:


> You've got your ZSTs plugged in wrongly friend



Lol I know I just wanted to take a quick pic with them next to the ES3.


----------



## skeej

iPhone IEM said:


> Dang, I already ordered..



I'm kinda bummed because I ordered the ES3 on the 24th of August already, and according to the tracking number it's still "pre-advised". So basically my ES3 is still lying in some GB warehouse while it's being sold for quite a bit less at this moment. Oh well.

One thing I know for sure is I'm probably not gonna resist getting the ZS6, but will restrain myself and wait for a sale to pop up


----------



## TheWongWrong

Octave0 said:


> Lol I know I just wanted to take a quick pic with them next to the ES3.


Ah that's good then. I was prepared to witness you having a revelation.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 4, 2017)

Octave0 said:


> KZ ES3 Arrived this morning, never listened to them yet ....


Do let us know how the ES3 compares to the ZST once you plug in the ZST correctly to ensure that the sound is not "out of phase" (hollow sounding)


----------



## Octave0

TheWongWrong said:


> Ah that's good then. I was prepared to witness you having a revelation.



 I detach my iem's from the cable & store them, I just grabbed a cable & stuck them on  quick for a pic lol.

I had the ZSE come last week had bad channel imbalance only one side worked  Gearbest sent another unit out, hope these ES3's are without defect.


----------



## Modulus

Griffith said:


> Just as a heads up. Outside of some flash sales that offer more enticing discounts for very limited quantities of products Gearbest puts its products on sale, most of them, every other week.
> 
> If you miss a particular sale of theirs it's not a big deal and their sales discounts aren't spectacular anyway. If you want my advice, hold your money until someone reviews them unless the $10 are completely expendable to you.



I would agree with this. I bought the ZS5 when they were on presale, from one of the big Aliexpress sellers. I paid something like 32 euro, including silver cable. This was a good enough deal that I jumped into the pre-sale. But the price almost immediately dropped down to 20 and now 17 very quickly. There's no point getting a pre-sale item imo.

Another thing I will add while I'm at it. Why can't KZ make the silver cable with in-line controls? The rubbery, sticky, microphonic cable is the biggest weakness of their IEMs. I really hate it and don't understand why this is not something they would address.

I've been using my ZS5 daily, cycling 5km to work and back every day, and longer rides on weekends. The sticky cable is horrible, and the controls not particularly reliable, as much as I love the sound of the IEM itself.

If you're listening KZ, please update your cables. I would pay 10 euro for the sliver cable with in-line controls


----------



## Slater

VinceHill24 said:


> The BA fyi is not a Knowles BA. This is a very common case in China IEM scene. Many manufacturer do not actually use Knowles BA in their IEM. Most are copycat BA which most of the time goes by the same name and there are currently 2 biggest BA manufacturer in China whereby many brands actually uses their BA and some of the BA code is actually named after Knowles BA model. Very blatant copy indeed but many in Chinese forums have said the performances of these China made BA are not up to par with a real Knowles BA but because they are cheap so a lot of time these Chinese IEM manufacturer just uses them instead of Knowles. Ever wonder what happened to Magaosi which had kinda like disappeared ? One of the reason is coz some buyer decided to open up the shell and when they realised the BA is not the Knowles BA as advertised so there they go reputation down the drain. So i think KZ is being careful for not making false claims on their BA driver coz it's not stated that it is Knowled anywhere. Some other cheap brands like **** which claims that they uses Knowles makes me feel doubtful too now.



FYI, KZ makes their own BA drivers. Their logo is even laser engraved on the driver body. Unlike some other IEM manufacturers who claim to be using Knowles drivers, KZ is very open and honest about using their own drivers.


----------



## Griffith

Modulus said:


> Another thing I will add while I'm at it. Why can't KZ make the silver cable with in-line controls? The rubbery, sticky, microphonic cable is the biggest weakness of their IEMs. I really hate it and don't understand why this is not something they would address.



That's one of the reasons I tend to prefer MMCX cables, you have a lot more options with mic or not and, in general, they are very affordable. 2-pin connector cables are more limited in supply and types. I don't even know where or if I can buy original replacement cables for a TFZ earphone which has the same connector.


----------



## Philip-DD (Sep 4, 2017)

Octave0 said:


> I detach my iem's from the cable & store them, I just grabbed a cable & stuck them on  quick for a pic lol.
> 
> I had the ZSE come last week had bad channel imbalance only one side worked  Gearbest sent another unit out, hope these ES3's are without defect.



Same problem here. ZSE from GB. Right side not working. First experience with an IEM not working (DOA). Didn't ask for another ZSE. Money was refunded and I bought my first of two ES3s (blue/aquamarine).


----------



## Fox2twenty

skeej said:


> I'm kinda bummed because I ordered the ES3 on the 24th of August already, and according to the tracking number it's still "pre-advised". So basically my ES3 is still lying in some GB warehouse while it's being sold for quite a bit less at this moment. Oh well.
> 
> One thing I know for sure is I'm probably not gonna resist getting the ZS6, but will restrain myself and wait for a sale to pop up



Lol, I probably will not resist the Zs6 either.


----------



## maxxevv

Vidal said:


> Has anyone seen the *metal* shells confirmed in a Aliexpress listing yet? I was looking closely at the pictures and they still look plastic to my eyes - could be completely wrong but none of the listing seem to mention the shell material.



Your question answered. Got this off one of the Facebook group postings.


----------



## Holypal

I measured my ZS5's impedance. Both left and right are 4.0 ohm. It's much lower than the specs on penonaudio. 

I'm not sure my pair is defective or the specs are wrong. It sounds good though.


----------



## Griffith

maxxevv said:


> Your question answered. Got this off one of the Facebook group postings.



Which Facebook group would this be?


----------



## vladstef (Sep 4, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> Your question answered. Got this off one of the Facebook group postings.



This confirms a few things: Metal shells (no idea about the nozzle but even that might be metal according to the first photo), no crossover, there is a tube that goes from micro DD (if this improves mid range, I am buying them!), one of the screws is just for looks but other 2 are functional and practical for anyone who'd open them (very good thing imho), 3 openings are fully used and front vent is smaller than before.
This honestly looks like KZ has decided to change BA position and add this tube for micro DD just to satisfy people who believed that only 2 drivers provided sound in ZS5, but maybe it's just an evolution that would happen regardless. Love it how internal chamber that holds the tube and one DD has a squared opening where previous BA was.
They should've kept that silver natural look from the first photo and just polish it to give it a shine. This way we could bedazzle the people on the streets while we enjoyed our music.


----------



## Marc Lian

God damn I just got the ZS5 and I think I'm going to have to buy the ZS6 too.


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> This confirms a few things: Metal shells (no idea about the nozzle but even that might be metal according to the first photo), no crossover, there is a tube that goes from micro DD (if this improves mid range, I am buying them!), one of the screws is just for looks but other 2 are functional and practical for anyone who'd open them (very good thing imho), 3 openings are fully used and front vent is smaller than before.
> This honestly looks like KZ has decided to change BA position and add this tube for micro DD just to satisfy people who believed that only 2 drivers provided sound in ZS5, but maybe it's just an evolution that would happen regardless. Love it how internal chamber that holds the tube and one DD has a squared opening where previous BA was.
> They should've kept that silver natural look from the first photo and just polish it to give it a shine. This way we could bedazzle the people on the streets while we enjoyed our music.



Interesting photos.

A few points:

1. The nozzle is definitely cnc aluminum.

2. On the short 'nonfunctional' screw, it bites into the side of the shell (you can see a small curved indent cut out of the side of the case where the screw threads will bite).

3. On the "squared opening where previous BA was", CNC machine time is money so I do not believe they would waste extra machining time to make that for no reason. My hunch? It was either for tuning tests (ie 1 BA in the cutout + 1 BA in the nozzle vs 0 in the cutout + 2 in the nozzle), or it is there to be populated by a BA driver in a future model without the need for retooling (perhaps the long-awaited 5 driver IEM that used to be referred to as the ZSR Pro).


----------



## Octave0

I connected the KZ ES3's "correctly" the cable is same as the KZ ZST cable apart from the top where there is black plastic which you can bend in shape over & around your ears like the KZ ZS3' cable, I have a problem though, the right side seals perfectly can even feel the suction using the biggest tips provided but the left side keeps popping out no matter how I adjust it, got a lil discomfort & pain now lol, will try other tips later just left music playing on them for now, not comfortable as KZ ZST & KZ ZS3 for me atleast, will experiment more later, with a brief listen when I had a good seal momentarily the mids where dancing away, a lot of detail too, i don't know why the left side keeps coming out wasn't a problem with the ZST's quite frustrating.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 4, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Interesting photos.
> 
> A few points:
> 
> ...



I doubt that they can make it precise enough for a screw to hold only by it's side (it would require some amazingly small margin of error), but that screw looks longer than it needs to be, so, who knows.
That square is probably where BA was in the ZS5 v1 and they obviously intended ZS6 to inherit the same structure as ZS5 v1. It appears that the change happened quite late in the development and they only ended up plugging that hole on the underside that we can't see (this can be seen on some ZS5 v2 renders). ZSR will have 1DD+2BA and ZS10 will be the previously rumored ZSR with 1DD+4BA (here)


Spoiler: ZS5 2 versions - comparison of internal chambers


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wait a minute... No crossovers? I missed that.. So, kz peeps, does this, mean all 4 drivers are full spectrum??


----------



## Fox2twenty

iPhone IEM said:


> Wait a minute... No crossovers? I missed that.. So, kz peeps, does this, mean all 4 drivers are full spectrum??



@slaterlovesspam et al.. Are all kz products full spectrum??


----------



## Ynot1

Octave0 said:


> I connected the KZ ES3's "correctly" the cable is same as the KZ ZST cable apart from the top where there is black plastic which you can bend in shape over & around your ears like the KZ ZS3' cable, I have a problem though, the right side seals perfectly can even feel the suction using the biggest tips provided but the left side keeps popping out no matter how I adjust it, got a lil discomfort & pain now lol, will try other tips later just left music playing on them for now, not comfortable as KZ ZST & KZ ZS3 for me atleast, will experiment more later, with a brief listen when I had a good seal momentarily the mids where dancing away, a lot of detail too, i don't know why the left side keeps coming out wasn't a problem with the ZST's quite frustrating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jant71

I see the structure has the rounded areas where the DD sit and fit then the square off to the side. The 10mm DD sits in the cradled on top and has little to do with the square. The square should be for the 5 drivers extra driver. They probably made one piece to use in both phones instead of designing/making another piece. Think it is an ABS piece and not CNC. The pic has CNC sides of the shell and the nozzle but not the "Cradle". Both for price and weight there is little chance that piece is CNC'd.


----------



## Francisk

Octave0 said:


> I connected the KZ ES3's "correctly" the cable is same as the KZ ZST cable apart from the top where there is black plastic which you can bend in shape over & around your ears like the KZ ZS3' cable, I have a problem though, the right side seals perfectly can even feel the suction using the biggest tips provided but the left side keeps popping out no matter how I adjust it, got a lil discomfort & pain now lol, will try other tips later just left music playing on them for now, not comfortable as KZ ZST & KZ ZS3 for me atleast, will experiment more later, with a brief listen when I had a good seal momentarily the mids where dancing away, a lot of detail too, i don't know why the left side keeps coming out wasn't a problem with the ZST's quite frustrating.


Thanks for the 1st impression...improved mids alone is enough to get me all excited...hope the ES3 retain the frequency extension on both ends too. Hopefully you'll get a good seal with the ES3 soon. Btw, have you tried the Comply T400 tips? This might help your seal issue.


----------



## Octave0

Francisk said:


> Thanks for the 1st impression...improved mids alone is enough to get me all excited...hope the ES3 retain the frequency extension on both ends too. Hopefully you'll get a good seal with the ES3 soon. Btw, have you tried the Comply T400 tips? This might help your seal issue.



I was about to try other tips when I took one off i realized one of the mesh's wasn't glued on properly it was stuck in the tip so i removed it & glued it back took a lot of work  I'm sure i got a little bit of glue inside the nozzle i hope I never messed them up, hard work these KZ's   I tighten the plastic mould around my ear fit was much better suddenly, just letting the nozzle dry, I think these don't have as much sharp treble as the ZST's but its still is bright, the mid seems more natural to me & less sharp, bass is similar goes fairly but I need to listen more, I wish I never ran in to these problems lol just plug play & enjoy would of been nice.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 4, 2017)

Holypal said:


> I measured my ZS5's impedance. Both left and right are 4.0 ohm. It's much lower than the specs on penonaudio.
> 
> I'm not sure my pair is defective or the specs are wrong. It sounds good though.


Out of curiosity, how are you measuring that?  Like what frequency is that at?  Sounds like you might be trying to extrapolate from DC resistance?

Nominal impedance measurements are normally taken at 1kHz, and in a well behaved device you can sometimes extrapolate that from DC resistance.
But 4 drivers wired in parallel without a crossover does not a well behaved device make, and a very low DC resistance is an expected thing there.




iPhone IEM said:


> @slaterlovesspam et al.. Are all kz products full spectrum??


Most are - some of their early products had a crossover, I believe, and apparently the ZS6 will have one.


----------



## Skullophile

Now I ripped out the red and green wires from the DD that isn't in the nozzle.


Now I have 4 wires sticking out!

 

Plugged them in and guess what!!


They sound the same. As before or at least I don't hear a significant difference between the left and right sides. So as far as I am concerned these are a 1 + 1


----------



## vector84

Skullophile said:


> Now I ripped out the red and green wires from the DD that isn't in the nozzle.
> 
> Now I have 4 wires sticking out!
> 
> ...


Don't suppose you have anything to take measurements, even crude ones?
You did mention you hate the way they sound... so I can't help but wonder how much patience you'd have to listen for differences...

Still... very interesting.


While you've got them like that, here's another thought: at the very least, disconnecting those drivers should change their source matching properties quite a bit?
Do they now sound better or worse on a low quality source like a random phone or laptop jack maybe?


----------



## vladstef (Sep 4, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> Now I ripped out the red and green wires from the DD that isn't in the nozzle.
> 
> Now I have 4 wires sticking out!
> 
> ...



Even without equipment, I'd suggest trying a Sine Gen and manually going through frequencies, just to get an idea of what changed (obviously do this with modded one and regular one separately). You can also put them both inside, and you should probably notice how sound is changing position, being in the middle where both sides are similarly loud and sweeping to one side if it gets louder, that is, where 2 disconnected drivers would contribute or in this case, remove some of the sound loudness. This might give you a better idea, but even this is probably not gonna give very definitive answers, it is quite clear that these 2 drivers only influence the sound a little at certain frequencies.
Both DD drivers in ZS5 are full range drivers and it's a miracle that they are not creating some audible phasing issues given how there is no crossover. BA in the bore gives most of the treble and BA in the body is for transition mids-highs, but again, big DD alone will cover the whole range and other drivers are just there to contribute a bit (no one has quite done the full measurements of individual drivers, this is just based on the information that we have, some of the things that I've said might have an update and are in fact somewhat different in reality)


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> I doubt that they can make it precise enough for a screw to hold only by it's side (it would require some amazingly small margin of error), but that screw looks longer than it needs to be, so, who knows.
> That square is probably where BA was in the ZS5 v1 and they obviously intended ZS6 to inherit the same structure as ZS5 v1. It appears that the change happened quite late in the development and they only ended up plugging that hole on the underside that we can't see (this can be seen on some ZS5 v2 renders). ZSR will have 1DD+2BA and ZS10 will be the previously rumored ZSR with 1DD+4BA (here)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: ZS5 2 versions - comparison of internal chambers



OK, I forgot it was renamed the ZS10. It was originally known as the ZSR Pro. Anyways, that's what I was referring to (ie the 5-driver IEM).

As far as the machining, you can most certainly get the tolerance that close. Since the shell is CNC machined, you can most certainly get the tolerances to within 1-2 thousandths of an inch (which is 1/4-1/2 the thickness of a single human hair).


----------



## Fox2twenty

So Zs5 = full spectrum
An Zs6 = crossover

Is this correct?


----------



## Skullophile

Yes, I did mention that I don't like how they sound. That's why I opened them up and started ripping out wires. This exercise was more about the driver count then anything else.

The point of me opening them up was just to see if all 4 drivers per side were contributing considerably to their sound. @vector84.I had a listen with my android m8, Aune M1s and my acer aspire laptop and didn't find anything funny happening between left and right in regards to source matching.

And @vladstef I have never really been into sine gen's and stuff like that I only have ever trusted my ears. My ears tell me there's no significant difference if I disconnect a BA and a DD in one side
to the sound of the other side. Subjectively and non-scientifically I would have thought there would have been an obviously audible difference if those drivers were doing even a little bit of work.

They might be doing a very slight amount of work but I have proved what I set out to prove. If they are doing anything it's very little is all my ears can say for sure.


----------



## Holypal (Sep 4, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Out of curiosity, how are you measuring that? Like what frequency is that at? Sounds like you might be trying to extrapolate from DC resistance?
> 
> Nominal impedance measurements are normally taken at 1kHz, and in a well behaved device you can sometimes extrapolate that from DC resistance.
> But 4 drivers wired in parallel without a crossover does not a well behaved device make, and a very low DC resistance is an expected thing there.



You're right. I measured the DC resistance with a multi-meter. So the 4 drivers wired in parallel.

And in this case, does it mean ZS5 is very source dependent? Thanks.


----------



## randomnin

Skullophile said:


> Yes, I did mention that I don't like how they sound. That's why I opened them up and started ripping out wires. This exercise was more about the driver count then anything else.
> 
> The point of me opening them up was just to see if all 4 drivers per side were contributing considerably to their sound. @vector84.I had a listen with my android m8, Aune M1s and my acer aspire laptop and didn't find anything funny happening between left and right in regards to source matching.
> 
> ...


Remove the last BA, if at all possible. I have my doubts about any BA contributions in cheap Chinese hybrids in general.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 4, 2017)

iPhone IEM said:


> So Zs5 = full spectrum
> An Zs6 = crossover
> 
> Is this correct?



There is absolutely nothing pointing towards an actual crossover for ZS6. In fact, a few pages back there was a promo picture showing that both DD drivers inside ZS6 will cover at least 20-20k range. I think BAs start to kick in after 5k (maybe even later), so we will have 4 drivers of 3 types trying to produce treble. This is a recipe for disaster generally with all kinds of phasing issues waiting to happen, but KZ appears to be swimming fine in these waters (same thing is happening with ZS5, albeit in different configuration, and we know that ZS5 is at least good)

E: It is possible that they included 3 way crossover, photo in the post below


----------



## vector84

vladstef said:


> There is absolutely nothing pointing towards an actual crossover for ZS6. In fact, a few pages back there was a promo picture showing that both DD drivers inside ZS6 will cover at least 20-20k range. I think BAs start to kick in after 5k (maybe even later), so we will have 4 drivers of 3 types trying to produce treble. This is a recipe for disaster generally with all kinds of phasing issues waiting to happen, but KZ appears to be swimming fine in these waters (same thing is happening with ZS5, albeit in different configuration, and we know that ZS5 is at least good)





esfrost said:


> Got this spec list for the ZS6 from a shopee seller. Check it out.





esfrost said:


> Okay, from the same seller. Spec list for the ZS5.



Not saying the seller is right, but that's something right? ZS6 mentions "electronic crossover" where ZS5 instead mentions "meticulous driver placement"


----------



## Adide

randomnin said:


> Remove the last BA, if at all possible. I have my doubts about any BA contributions in cheap Chinese hybrids in general.



Hardcore FTW!
Yeah, do it!


----------



## vector84 (Sep 4, 2017)

Holypal said:


> You're right. I measured the DC resistance with a multi-meter. So the 4 drivers wired in parallel.
> 
> And in this case, does it mean ZS5 is very source dependent? Thanks.



EDIT: Actually I'm not so sure about that - obviously the two drivers that were able to be disconnected were wired in parallel somewhere (or not really connected at all), but from the pics, I can't tell what's going on with the gold colored grounding wire on the main BA.

They certainly look wired in parallel based on breakdowns, but I can't say I've taken mine apart to check.
And conventional wisdom would suggest that would tend to make them incredibly source dependent, yes, which coincides with much of what's been written here about them.

However the current experiments being conducted and discussed would draw this sharply into question 


I'll readily admit I'm pretty intrigued (and a touch confused) by the results - some changes at least would be expected unless they're *entirely* non-functional in the first place.
(but if that were the case, they shouldn't have such absurdly low DC resistance...)


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Not saying the seller is right, but that's something right? ZS6 mentions "electronic crossover" where ZS5 instead mentions "meticulous driver placement"



I actually kinda like that regarding the ZS5. . I have never had a multi driver full spectrum headphone.....


----------



## Holypal

vector84 said:


> I'll readily admit I'm pretty intrigued (and a touch confused) by the results - some changes at least would be expected unless they're *entirely* non-functional in the first place.
> (but if that were the case, they shouldn't have such absurdly low DC resistance...)




Well. Let's look forward to ZS6. KZ seems developed a guide tube inside it, so there is no glue.


----------



## vector84

Holypal said:


> Well. Let's look forward to ZS6. KZ seems developed a guide tube inside it, so there is no glue.


I dunno about that... something gives me the feeling they'll find somewhere in there to fill with glue


----------



## vladstef

Holypal said:


> Well. Let's look forward to ZS6. KZ seems developed a guide tube inside it, so there is no glue.



Oh, there will be glue, that's the only certain thing.


----------



## Octave0

I just listened to the ES3's & ZST's back to back with the same songs, I listen to mainly RnB, soul, Hiphop, some pop, etc.. No EDM, rock, metal,  So my experience may vary to others, I listened to this song for example:  as it has nice bass, a female singer with great vocals & instruments piano etc playing in the back.

ZST bought out good detail in the song but the highs where really sharp cutting in to my ears, the mids are there but because of the pitch of the highs it really doesn't match up well with the highs being so forward & carrying no weight, the bass is nice controlled but again the sharp treble makes the sound of the vocals hard to listen, good clarity & detail but I can't listen to songs like that for too long. 

ES3 okay early impressions *my opinion*, the mids are there like right there for u very clear detailed, the highs are bright but not to much, I like the 50-50 or 48-52 balance of both the high & mids its hard to describe u hear both equally & one doesn't take away from the other, the bass impressed me it can go deep & is smoothly controlled very accurate, sub bass is on show too, I could hear the instruments very clear the piano keys being pressed, the imaging & spatial audio immersive feeling is nice in certain parts of the song, the vocals carry more weight to them then the ZST's they are a delight to listen to,  soundstage is kind of similar to the ZST but with this particular tuning with the high & mids it sounds better as an overall. I could listen to these for a long period not a fatiguing sound.

I need to listen to them more but very early on I like them, just waiting to hear others impressions on them.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 4, 2017)

Hey guys, new promo material for ZS6:
It's marvelous, so clean!!
I think that different green hues are due to different cameras, it reflects light beautifully in my opinion.


----------



## BrunoC

vladstef said:


> Hey guys, new promo material for ZS6:
> It's marvelous, so clean!!



Damn, this thing is inded beautiful..

That's it, I'm buying it.

Wait..I need to wait for some good reviews.... Argh!!! 
No, no... don't press that "BUY" button yet...Resist!

I am the only one?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Well, KZ uses glue like magic dampening right?


----------



## foba

Got my ES3. Took brief comparison with ZSE, ZST and ZS5's (opinion is subject to change). Sound is more "in your face" than ZS5 which makes it feel less spaceous. Mids are brought more forward (and therefore it sounds overall warmer and more "natural" than ZS5) but there is also slightly less clarity - with both mids and treble. Speaking of treble, i find it less sibilant than ZS5 while it is still well extended. Overall frequency response seems pretty even if you dont count some bass emphasis. Im not denying it can at times sound overpowering (as with the ZS5 also).

In my opinion its more capable and enjoyable than ZSE and ZST and it really puts smile on my face while I am currentyl listening it. Its also very comfortable (at least with my ears). 

I would not be surprised if some like it more than ZS5 but also vice versa.

Definetely one of the best KZ's and I can recommend it! Now waiting for the KZ ZS6's


----------



## Slater (Sep 4, 2017)

randomnin said:


> Remove the last BA, if at all possible. I have my doubts about any BA contributions in cheap Chinese hybrids in general.



I know for a fact the BA driver contributes to the ZST. I installed acoustic foam directly into the metal BA nozzle with the intent to tone down the sharp/piercing treble, and it made a direct and noticeable difference.

Also, there are a few reports on the Xiaomi Pro HD thread about users who received units with dead BA drivers (or that died shortly after receipt). They report a noticeable absence of high frequencies in those cases.


----------



## snip3r77

slaterlovesspam said:


> FYI, KZ makes their own BA drivers. Their logo is even laser engraved on the driver body. Unlike some other IEM manufacturers who claim to be using Knowles drivers, KZ is very open and honest about using their own drivers.


Probably their volume is big enough for them to make it themselves


----------



## Fox2twenty

foba said:


> Got my ES3. Took brief comparison with ZSE, ZST and ZS5's (opinion is subject to change). Sound is more "in your face" than ZS5 which makes it feel less spaceous. Mids are brought more forward (and therefore it sounds overall warmer and more "natural" than ZS5) but there is also slightly less clarity - with both mids and treble. Speaking of treble, i find it less sibilant than ZS5 while it is still well extended. Overall frequency response seems pretty even if you dont count some bass emphasis. Im not denying it can at times sound overpowering (as with the ZS5 also).
> 
> In my opinion its more capable and enjoyable than ZSE and ZST and it really puts smile on my face while I am currentyl listening it. Its also very comfortable (at least with my ears).
> 
> ...



Thanks for the review. This makes me happy I went with ZS5 and ES3!!


----------



## gwompki (Sep 4, 2017)

I couldn't resist the flash sale on the ES3 and ordered this morning while drinking my coffee.  Since the sales were  fairly good, I also ordered a Bluetooth cable for my ZST for gym use and a silver cable for my ZS5.  Gearbest wants all of my money


----------



## Fox2twenty

gwompki said:


> I couldn't resist the flash sale on the ES3 and ordered this morning while drinking my coffee.  Since the sales were  fairly good, I also ordered a Bluetooth cable for my ZST for gym use and a silver cable for my ZS5.  Gearbest wants all of my money



Lol this is a great explanation of what happens on head-fi.


----------



## Francisk

iPhone IEM said:


> Lol this is a great explanation of what happens on head-fi.


Lol...it's happening to many of us here...including me


----------



## Fox2twenty

Francisk said:


> Lol...it's happening to many of us here...including me



This is what I'm waiting on.. How long does Gearbest usually take?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Well... Just realized I missed the fiio sale.. Cmon Gearbest make me feel better!!!


----------



## Vidal

I see the price is starting to drop on the KZ ZS6 - down to £27 with HotFi if you use their coupon. I think it'll drop further yet though.


----------



## Cya|\|

Why do I see no picture of the crossover? They say there is one, but the lack of picture makes me think...


----------



## Sylmar

Great impressions on the ES3 guys. Glad it's not a earpiercer. Couldn't help but order one myself.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 5, 2017)

Cya|\| said:


> Why do I see no picture of the crossover? They say there is one, but the lack of picture makes me think...



They will start shipping them on the 15th, people in China will get them in a matter of days and we will have some sort of idea what to expect. Given how easy it would be to open one and how crossover would be the first visible thing inside, we are for sure gonna get that information quickly.
KZ has implemented crossover before in the ZS1, but they removed it in second iteration. It is possible that ZS6 really has it, but we all know that it's not enough to just put something inside, it has to be tuned properly.
ZS6 is shaping up to be quite an upgrade coming from ZS5 v1, a lot of changes all around. And it's impressive that KZ can keep it up with low prices yet improve this much this quickly (if the sound improves, we know that build will). People complaining that it's more expensive forgot that ZS5 was around 40$ on launch and dropped to almost half that in a month. ZS6 can be found for around 35$, although the regular price is around 45$ currently. (5$ more for a good looking metal construction is a true bargain)
Hopefully, KZ has improved the packaging and accessories, ZS5 was truly bare bone, even with that nicer box which only included 3 extra tips...


----------



## Cya|\|

vladstef said:


> People complaining that it's more expensive forgot that ZS5 was around 40$ on launch and dropped to almost half that in a month.



This.


----------



## ricemanhk

KZ ZS6 starting to show on taobao, after discounts about 33 USD for the standard no mic pair.  Some transactions already but no comments/reviews yet, so probably haven't shipped out.  Only green and black for now as well, those who want red might have to wait a bit more.

Still no sign of ES3...I guess really a GB exclusive!


----------



## Vidal

It appears that KZ are only shipping ZS6 in large quantity to sellers, looks like a minimum order required. 

Whether this means that some sellers won't get initial run stock because they haven't got enough pre-orders will be interesting, I suspect some AE orders will never get fulfilled. Explains the universal pre-orders on this earphone though.


----------



## Griffith

I'm listening to Daughter's "If you leave" album with the ZS5 and I think this is a good album to showcase some of the weaknesses and strengths of the earphone. It seems that whenever there is some strong sub-bass it bleeds onto the mids and buries them, but on parts or tracks where there isn't a boomy bass you can hear crisp details and a pleasant rendition of the singer's throaty voice.


----------



## vladstef

I think that ZS6 is not worth the current price of 45$, unless you can get some potent sound upgrades compared to ZS5, here is the reasoning. At 65$ you could buy Fiio F5, and this gets you probably at least comparable sound quality, regular cable that is better than KZ's, an additional balanced cable, full blown pelican like case (probably worth around 10$) and on top of it all, better build quality with proper quality control.
ZS6 looks very well built on photos, however, question still remains whether every unit that comes out of the factory will be equal. The value will become apparent only after it drops to around 30$. Obviously, if the sound quality is greatly improved compared to ZS5, all of this value talk gets softened quite a bit.


----------



## Vidal

Griffith said:


> I'm listening to Daughter's "If you leave" album with the ZS5 and I think this is a good album to showcase some of the weaknesses and strengths of the earphone. It seems that whenever there is some strong sub-bass it bleeds onto the mids and buries them, but on parts or tracks where there isn't a boomy bass you can hear crisp details and a pleasant rendition of the singer's throaty voice.



Sub-bass? Eh, below 60Hz bleeds into the mids , or did you mean 'mid bass'?


----------



## Griffith (Sep 5, 2017)

Vidal said:


> Sub-bass? Eh, below 60Hz bleeds into the mids , or did you mean 'mid bass'?



I'm not entirely sure sine I don't have a way to view the spectrum right now, but it could be either. Either way there is a distinct bleeding of the bass. If not for that the ZS5 would probably become my favorite units to listen to from KZ's lineup.

Note that I'm not saying the ZS5 is bad, but when they are capable of rendering a noticeable amount of details that other KZ earphones can't resolve as well and then they have a flaw that on some tracks renders that increase detail useless I can't help but have an overwhelming sensation of disappointment with the ZS5.

The ZST has more flaws than the ZS5 but the ZST's flaws don't ruin its strengths and the ZS5 unfortunately does.


----------



## vladstef

Griffith said:


> I'm not entirely sure sine I don't have a way to view the spectrum right now, but it could be either. Either way there is a distinct bleeding of the bass. If not for that the ZS5 would probably become my favorite units to listen to from KZ's lineup.
> 
> Note that I'm not saying the ZS5 is bad, but when they are capable of rendering a noticeable amount of details that other KZ earphones can't resolve as well and then they have a flaw that on some tracks renders that increase detail useless I can't help but have an overwhelming sensation of disappointment with the ZS5.
> 
> The ZST has more flaws than the ZS5 but the ZST's flaws don't ruin its strengths and the ZS5 unfortunately does.



If you haven't, try ZS5 with foam tips (Comply or similar tips from Aliexpress, they all work the same). It reduces the bass bloom considerably and in fact, this area ends up being really good on ZS5, subb and bass are never downing other frequencies. The problem is that mids can't keep up and are not on the same performance level, same can be said about treble which is quite clear but unnatural, something that probably has to do with phasing due to many different driver types producing the sound in this range.
The point being, with foam tips, you tame the bass enough to get to properly hear other frequencies, but you also discover that they might not be as good as you might think, there are obvious flaws but even with them ZS5 pulls ahead of competition. This is all normal, you can't expect ideal sound at this price, yet


----------



## Francisk

iPhone IEM said:


> Well... Just realized I missed the fiio sale.. Cmon Gearbest make me feel better!!!


Wait for the Cayin or Shanling sale then


----------



## Francisk

vladstef said:


> If you haven't, try ZS5 with foam tips (Comply or similar tips from Aliexpress, they all work the same). It reduces the bass bloom considerably and in fact, this area ends up being really good on ZS5, subb and bass are never downing other frequencies. The problem is that mids can't keep up and are not on the same performance level, same can be said about treble which is quite clear but unnatural, something that probably has to do with phasing due to many different driver types producing the sound in this range.
> The point being, with foam tips, you tame the bass enough to get to properly hear other frequencies, but you also discover that they might not be as good as you might think, there are obvious flaws but even with them ZS5 pulls ahead of competition. This is all normal, you can't expect ideal sound at this price, yet


All IEMs have their own flaws...Even the super duper expensive TOTL IEMs have their flaws too. Maybe you might want to share with us a "flawless" IEM and I'd drop everything and purchase at least 10 of that "flawless" IEM


----------



## Francisk (Sep 5, 2017)

Gearbest KZ ZS6 sale has started at $35.32: https://www.gearbest.com/kz-zs6-_gear/


----------



## vladstef

Francisk said:


> All IEMs have their own flaws...Even the super duper expensive TOTL IEMs have their flaws too. Maybe you might want to share with us a "flawless" IEM and I'd drop everything and purchase at least 10 of that "flawless" IEM



I never said that a flawless IEM exists so I don't see exactly where this came from. Saying that ideal sound can't be achieved at this price point is saying something about the way the industry is progressing as of late, things have improved drastically in the budget segment that we can start talking about seriously good sound for very little money. This wasn't possible a few years ago.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 5, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I never said that a flawless IEM exists so I don't see exactly where this came from. Saying that ideal sound can't be achieved at this price point is saying something about the way the industry is progressing as of late, things have improved drastically in the budget segment that we can start talking about seriously good sound for very little money. This wasn't possible a few years ago.


Good then, let's look forward to the ZS6 and ZS10 and stop ranting about the ZS5. I don't think the KZ thread is about perfect flawless IEMs anyway


----------



## vladstef

Francisk said:


> Good then, let's look forward to the ZS6 and ZS10 and stop ranting about the ZS5. I don't think the KZ thread is about perfect flawless IEMs



I agree! ZS6 appears to be a very well thought out IEM, plus it looks stunning and expensive as a nice bonus. We can only imagine ZS10 as something even greater. The future looks bright, or should I say, high-res!


----------



## Carrow

Francisk said:


> Gearbest KZ ZS6 sale has started at $35.32: https://www.gearbest.com/kz-zs6-_gear/



Is it me or is this link throwing a 'not found' error?


----------



## snip3r77

vladstef said:


> I agree! ZS6 appears to be a very well thought out IEM, plus it looks stunning and expensive as a nice bonus. We can only imagine ZS10 as something even greater. The future looks bright, or should I say, high-res!


Let's wait for reviews


----------



## Griffith

Carrow said:


> Is it me or is this link throwing a 'not found' error?



It's you.

I think I'm going to skip on the ZS6. I don't appreciate the shell design immensely, it gets a bit uncomfortable after a few hours, and the ZS5 somewhat made me lose confidence in KZ's ability to produce a more complex multi-driver setup. I'm sure that in time they'll refine them and make them better but the ZS5 was beta-testing enough for me.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 5, 2017)

Carrow said:


> Is it me or is this link throwing a 'not found' error?


I just test the link and it loaded fine with the red, black and green version of the ZS6 on sale at Gearbest. I hope the link is not country specific.


----------



## foba

Griffith said:


> It's you.
> 
> I think I'm going to skip on the ZS6. I don't appreciate the shell design immensely, it gets a bit uncomfortable after a few hours, and the ZS5 somewhat made me lose confidence in KZ's ability to produce a more complex multi-driver setup. I'm sure that in time they'll refine them and make them better but the ZS5 was beta-testing enough for me.



What IEM´s you value higher than ZS5 @ under 50 usd price range, regardless of the driver choice?


----------



## Griffith (Sep 5, 2017)

foba said:


> What IEM´s you value higher than ZS5 @ under 50 usd price range, regardless of the driver choice?



Just look at my signature. Those are the ones I find most enjoyable right now. (Edit: Ignore the Fostex obviously) The ZS5 might become a part of that list, I will spend a few more days with them, but I have the feeling that when I stop listening to them it will be for a long while.


----------



## Fox2twenty

@Griffith, so you like ZST better than ZS5?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Francisk said:


> Gearbest KZ ZS6 sale has started at $35.32: https://www.gearbest.com/kz-zs6-_gear/



I guess it is somehow country specific? I searched kz Zs6 and found this


----------



## djmakemynight

iPhone IEM said:


> I guess it is somehow country specific? I searched kz Zs6 and found this



Yeah, i searched and nothing came up too. KZ ZS5 worked though.


----------



## vladstef

ZS6 on Gearbest is very tempting if it's a mic version plus a silver cable (only on the photo, description confirms that it has a mic but nothing about silver cable). The price is already lower than it was with ZS5 in this stage.
There is a detail about package size for ZS6 and it's almost the same as ZS5 so we are not getting anything fancy, except metal goodness of course.

For anyone who is thinking about buying them, which color do you prefer? I can't decide partially because I am waiting to see how red looks like in real life photos. Black and green ones are equally tempting and amazing in their own ways.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> ZS6 on Gearbest is very tempting if it's a mic version plus a silver cable (only on the photo, description confirms that it has a mic but nothing about silver cable). The price is already lower than it was with ZS5 in this stage.
> There is a detail about package size for ZS6 and it's almost the same as ZS5 so we are not getting anything fancy, except metal goodness of course.
> 
> For anyone who is thinking about buying them, which color do you prefer? I can't decide partially because I am waiting to see how red looks like in real life photos. Black and green ones are equally tempting and amazing in their own ways.



Green looks radical. I like it.


----------



## Sylmar

vladstef said:


> ZS6 on Gearbest is very tempting if it's a mic version plus a silver cable (only on the photo, description confirms that it has a mic but nothing about silver cable). The price is already lower than it was with ZS5 in this stage.
> There is a detail about package size for ZS6 and it's almost the same as ZS5 so we are not getting anything fancy, except metal goodness of course.
> 
> For anyone who is thinking about buying them, which color do you prefer? I can't decide partially because I am waiting to see how red looks like in real life photos. Black and green ones are equally tempting and amazing in their own ways.



I am interested in the ZS6 but I'm waiting. I just bought too many Chi-fi IEMS lately and my wallet won't allow me. I hope that the ZS6 is a really good one and I can see myself buy the red version later on.


----------



## cirodts

green o black


----------



## _Wes

I like black - not sure how comfortable they will be. . . waiting on reviews.  Ordered the ZST from gearbest. . .


----------



## Francisk (Sep 5, 2017)

iPhone IEM said:


> I guess it is somehow country specific? I searched kz Zs6 and found this


Yes, unfortunately it's country specific for now but I'm sure Gearbest will include more countries soon.


----------



## Fox2twenty

cirodts said:


> green o black


Definitely preferred over Red. 



Francisk said:


> Yes, unfortunately it's country specific now but I'm sure Gearbest will include more countries soon.



Alright! Probably the best of both worlds right now.. My wallet is in rehab.


----------



## beowulf

vladstef said:


> ZS6 on Gearbest is very tempting



Hmm. Not to me. I seem to be KZ-cursed in general, with a sprinkle of Gearbest on top. I'm still waiting for a pair of ZS5 I ordered from them two months ago. Last seen somewhere in Kazakhstan...


----------



## Terran Earthson

Something wrong with my pair of ZST's, suddenly sound became really sharp, way too much treble, every song now feels really "high-pitchy". Did someone had the same problem?


----------



## HUGO SILVA

hello guys, any discount coupon for the KZ ZS6 on Gearbest?


----------



## Fox2twenty

I used GBSE I think.


----------



## Fox2twenty

HUGO SILVA said:


> hello guys, any discount coupon for the KZ ZS6 on Gearbest?


"GBSE" IS what I used, IIRC.


----------



## Slater

iPhone IEM said:


> "GBSE" IS what I used, IIRC.



Hmmm, I just tried that code and it says _"This Code does not exist. Please check again."
_
You sure you used this code for the ZS*6?*


----------



## Fox2twenty

No, of course not. I used it on the earphones in my profile pic.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I can't even see the Zs6 on Gearbest.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hmmm, I just tried that code and it says _"This Code does not exist. Please check again."
> _
> You sure you used this code for the ZS*6?*


I think it was a generic discount


----------



## peskypesky

vladstef said:


> ZS6 on Gearbest is very tempting if it's a mic version plus a silver cable (only on the photo, description confirms that it has a mic but nothing about silver cable). The price is already lower than it was with ZS5 in this stage.
> There is a detail about package size for ZS6 and it's almost the same as ZS5 so we are not getting anything fancy, except metal goodness of course.
> 
> For anyone who is thinking about buying them, which color do you prefer? I can't decide partially because I am waiting to see how red looks like in real life photos. Black and green ones are equally tempting and amazing in their own ways.


I love my ZS5s....so I really have no reason to order the ZS6....BUT the prices are getting very tempting! Still twice what I paid for my ZS5s though.

I think the black is my first choice. Part of the reason being that black things look smaller....but also because I'm a New Yorker and wear mostly black clothing. But the green ZS6s look really cool. Choices...choices...


----------



## peskypesky

beowulf said:


> Hmm. Not to me. I seem to be KZ-cursed in general, with a sprinkle of Gearbest on top. I'm still waiting for a pair of ZS5 I ordered from them two months ago. Last seen somewhere in Kazakhstan...


I feel your pain....somewhat. It took over a month for my ZS5s from Gearbest to be delivered....by Azerbaijan Airlines.


----------



## Griffith

iPhone IEM said:


> @Griffith, so you like ZST better than ZS5?



I think I'm going to have to say I do. The ZST are much more comfortable to wear and despite the sound signature having its own issues (the highs are a bit too sharp and they can get fatiguing to listen to after a while) they remain consistently enjoyable to listen to with a wide range of music, which is what I tend to gravitate to in an earphone: something that works well with all or most genres of music. The ZS5 can sound both excellent and almost jarring within the same music album depending on the amount of bass on the tracks, at their best they are better than the ZST but at their worst they are inferior, in my opinion. Perhaps KZ will have learned from the ZS5 and turn the ZS6 into something truly special. If they were able to further tune and adjust the technology they have in the ZS6, they would have a much more impressive earphone that I'm sure would cause ripples in the market against much more expensive earphones, but as it currently stands though, the ZS5 is more like a missed opportunity unfortunately.

I would sooner recommend the ZS3, ZST or ED9 before the ZS5.


----------



## vladstef

peskypesky said:


> I feel your pain....somewhat. It took over a month for my ZS5s from Gearbest to be delivered....by Azerbaijan Airlines.



My ZS5 took 2 weeks to arrive, I got it about a month after it was officially released and paid 25e for ZS5 with silver cable. ZS6 is only 5e more compared to what I paid for ZS5, so pricing is very much on point, well done KZ!
I replaced my ZS5 with Sony MH1c which is better for most of my regular listening, but I am hopeful that ZS6 will destroy everything and become a new king, until ZS10 that is.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Griffith said:


> I think I'm going to have to say I do. The ZST are much more comfortable to wear and despite the sound signature having its own issues (the highs are a bit too sharp and they can get fatiguing to listen to after a while) they remain consistently enjoyable to listen to with a wide range of music, which is what I tend to gravitate to in an earphone: something that works well with all or most genres of music. The ZS5 can sound both excellent and almost jarring within the same music album depending on the amount of bass on the tracks, at their best they are better than the ZST but at their worst they are inferior, in my opinion. Perhaps KZ will have learned from the ZS5 and turn the ZS6 into something truly special. If they were able to further tune and adjust the technology they have in the ZS6, they would have a much more impressive earphone that I'm sure would cause ripples in the market against much more expensive earphones, but as it currently stands though, the ZS5 is more like a missed opportunity unfortunately.
> 
> I would sooner recommend the ZS3, ZST or ED9 before the ZS5.



Awesome overview, thank you! I am waiting for the ES3 and ZS5.. We will see I suppose.


----------



## ioques

HUGO SILVA said:


> hello guys, any discount coupon for the KZ ZS6 on Gearbest?


GBKZ works with every KZ 
I used it right now on ZS6, € 25 I know, I'm weak, but I could not resist that green...


----------



## vladstef (Sep 5, 2017)

ioques said:


> GBKZ works with every KZ
> I used it right now on ZS6, € 25 I know, I'm weak, but I could not resist that green...



Wait, you can preorder for 25e if you use that code? And this is for mic version with silver cable? That is an amazing deal if it's true.

E: Gearbest removed silver cable from the photo, now it's a bit more realistic


----------



## ioques

Francisk said:


> Yes, unfortunately it's country specific for now but I'm sure Gearbest will include more countries soon.


Try this
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Griffith said:


> I would sooner recommend the ZS3, ZST or ED9 before the ZS5.



Funny thing is that I'd take the ZS5 over all of those.  Damn is hearing subjective af.


----------



## rrt2

Hi guys I got ZS5's a week ago, the one with mic, everything is good from listening pointing of view but people on other side of a call complain that they hear a lot of static or crackling on the call, is it normal with these factory default wires + mic for this behavior ? is there any other replacement cable which has mic for these IEMs which doesn't have this crackling problem?


----------



## sman789

I love gooooolllddd. Microphonics are way down from the stock cable and from my initial listening tests, it seems bass is a bit toned down, which I like.


----------



## rrt2

@sman789 thanks, do these come with mic, i checked AE, but there it doesn't seem to have a mic.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 5, 2017)

Just received a ZS3 ... with a crushed sound tube.  Fun times!

Oh and there was foam in the nozzle, not in the sound tube, and the sound tube is folded over and closed inside the nozzle - so the foam didn't just fall out, it was just loosely tossed into the nozzle on top of the crushed sound tube...

That's some impressive QC


----------



## sman789

rrt2 said:


> @sman789 thanks, do these come with mic, i checked AE, but there it doesn't seem to have a mic.


They don't come with a mic. I ordered the KZ upgrade gold cable from an eBay seller. I'm not sure if a third party makes one with a mic.


----------



## Slater

sman789 said:


> I love gooooolllddd. Microphonics are way down from the stock cable and from my initial listening tests, it seems bass is a bit toned down, which I like.



Any issues with fitting ZST cables on there (such as loose pins, falling off, etc)? Did you have to glue them?


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Just received a ZS3 ... with a crushed sound tube.  Fun times!
> 
> Oh and there was foam in the nozzle, not in the sound tube, and the sound tube is folded over and closed inside the nozzle - so the foam didn't just fall out, it was just loosely tossed into the nozzle on top of the crushed sound tube...
> 
> That's some impressive QC



Wow, haven't heard of reports of crushed sound tubes since the original release. I thought they had that issue fixed long ago!


----------



## themindfreak

rrt2 said:


> Hi guys I got ZS5's a week ago, the one with mic, everything is good from listening pointing of view but people on other side of a call complain that they hear a lot of static or crackling on the call, is it normal with these factory default wires + mic for this behavior ? is there any other replacement cable which has mic for these IEMs which doesn't have this crackling problem?


From my understanding of buying KZ cables, you cant really buy any stock cable with or without mic. The only cable you can buy and use right out of the box is the silver cables and none of these silver cables have mic. If you definitely need a cable with mic, you might have to find 3rd party cables by yourself


----------



## Slater

themindfreak said:


> From my understanding of buying KZ cables, you cant really buy any stock cable with or without mic. The only cable you can buy and use right out of the box is the silver cables and none of these silver cables have mic. If you definitely need a cable with mic, you might have to find 3rd party cables by yourself



The ZS6 stock cable comes with a mic. Not sure if it can be purchased separately though.


----------



## sman789

slaterlovesspam said:


> Any issues with fitting ZST cables on there (such as loose pins, falling off, etc)? Did you have to glue them?


They do not fit like the stock cables do.

 
You can see the black connector part is too wide, it won't set in like to stick cable. I separated the cable a bit from the earphone to show that, otherwise it fits flush and stays connected tightly.


----------



## Adide

News from the ES3 front: a review lacking in adequate sonic description and also a bit crazy overall, however there aren't many to choose from yet.
http://www.awaqa.com/kz-es3-review-new-hifi-earphones-specs-buy-price/

Caution: don't know if source is trustworthy.
Kinda says what you expect: okaysh but not killer as KZ is smart enough not to cannibalize their (still) ZS5 flagship sales.


----------



## cirodts

will the upgrade cable for zs5 be good for zs6 too?


----------



## ricemanhk

Adide said:


> News from the ES3 front: a review lacking in adequate sonic description and also a bit crazy overall, however there aren't many to choose from yet.
> http://www.awaqa.com/kz-es3-review-new-hifi-earphones-specs-buy-price/
> 
> Caution: don't know if source is trustworthy.
> Kinda says what you expect: okaysh but not killer as KZ is smart enough not to cannibalize their (still) ZS5 flagship sales.



LOL what site is this, the English seems directly translated from Chinese through google translate.  I'm Chinese and I still have problems reading through that...
Other posts are all about products that are typically only available in China, some brands I haven't even heard of hmm


----------



## ricemanhk

cirodts said:


> will the upgrade cable for zs5 be good for zs6 too?



yes, ZS3 ZS5 ZS6 all uses the same wire housing


----------



## Shadowsora

It seems this thread has a lot of new people! Nice!

I am back after some months of "life", I just ordered a bluetooth module and ZS5 from gearbest, threw in a ZSE as well.

So in a nutshell ZS5 is the best KZ atm even if it's real that it only uses 2 out of 4 drivers?


----------



## ricemanhk

Shadowsora said:


> It seems this thread has a lot of new people! Nice!
> 
> I am back after some months of "life", I just ordered a bluetooth module and ZS5 from gearbest, threw in a ZSE as well.
> 
> So in a nutshell ZS5 is the best KZ atm even if it's real that it only uses 2 out of 4 drivers?



For most of us a resounding yes, but some don't like ZS5 and think there are better options.  Of course, this situation is only (potentially) lasting until the ZS6 arrives....and then ZS10....


----------



## cirodts

ricemanhk said:


> yes, ZS3 ZS5 ZS6 all uses the same wire housing


thanks


----------



## cirodts

I tell you that the zs5 impressed me a lot, I had 1 more triple drivers and hifiman 400 but i did not like it, the zs5 gave me excellent sound quality, dynamics and separation.
Did not I know about zs10, when will it come out?


----------



## ioques

slaterlovesspam said:


> The ZS6 stock cable comes with a mic. Not sure if it can be purchased separately though.


You can find it for Zs3 http://m.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS3-Cable-...4d67518fff12ade%7Ciid%3A22&varId=552050221580 (same connector)
But you can buy the Zs3 almost for the same price. (be careful, you may end up really enjoying it.)


----------



## waveriderhawaii

Perhaps it's buried somewhere in this thread, but any comparisons between the KZ ZS3 and the ES3? Also the ZS5 compared to the ES3 if you can too.


----------



## manjunath1915 (Sep 6, 2017)

Ordered kz es3 and zse from gb flashsale


----------



## vladstef (Sep 6, 2017)

ZS6 on gearbest is 45$ at the moment. It won't stay there for long, price cuts are gonna be happening soon.


----------



## BrunoC

With the code it was 25€ yesterday night. Today it's 32€, in line of Aliexpress' prices


----------



## Niqeres

Why are people mentioning the zs10 so much? Didn't that name start out as a joke written by one of the members here?


----------



## vladstef

Niqeres said:


> Why are people mentioning the zs10 so much? Didn't that name start out as a joke written by one of the members here?



Here is an instagram post which had photos of ZS6 before it was wide spread and in the text there is some info about upcoming KZ higher end products. ZSR is 1DD+2BA and ZS10 is 1DD + 4BA. Obviously, naming might end up being different.


----------



## Dan-Fi

Hi, my first time posting in this thread, but I've been a closet KZ collector for just over a year now, the ED9 being my first, then the ATE, HDS1, ED7, ATR, ZS3 and more recently the ZSE. All of these were purchased via Ali from various sellers, and I've never had an issue with any of these earphones. It was only last week that I decided to buy myself a ZS5 after reading so much about it here, but this time through Gearbest (first time), as they had a flash sale for $18.69. Not to rub it in on some of you guys who are still waiting for their purchases from GB, but I was pleasantly surprised to receive the ZS5 today in the mail, so it took just a week to arrive in Australia. I think I'll have to make more purchases at GB rather than Ali in future!

I haven't had much time on the ZS5 yet, but to me using (generic) foam tips is much better than their stock starlines...it seems to open up more at the high end for me while the bass still thumps as I'm listening to some 80s music. Plus, I'm using KZ's plated silver cable from my ZS3 with no apparent phase issues. I've been really enjoying the ZSE (nice comfort factor here) and ZS3 of late, but the ZS5 to me sounds so much better than these two, with more clarity in the highs whilst still offering a fun thumping at the low end. And just to add more evidence of their new design, here's a photo of the nozzles...by eye I can easily see two circles under the mesh, suggesting two BAs in there! Looking forward to trying these out on my classical/opera collection.


----------



## Holypal

Dan-Fi said:


> Hi, my first time posting in this thread, but I've been a closet KZ collector for just over a year now, the ED9 being my first, then the ATE, HDS1, ED7, ATR, ZS3 and more recently the ZSE. All of these were purchased via Ali from various sellers, and I've never had an issue with any of these earphones. It was only last week that I decided to buy myself a ZS5 after reading so much about it here, but this time through Gearbest (first time), as they had a flash sale for $18.69. Not to rub it in on some of you guys who are still waiting for their purchases from GB, but I was pleasantly surprised to receive the ZS5 today in the mail, so it took just a week to arrive in Australia. I think I'll have to make more purchases at GB rather than Ali in future!
> 
> I haven't had much time on the ZS5 yet, but to me using (generic) foam tips is much better than their stock starlines...it seems to open up more at the high end for me while the bass still thumps as I'm listening to some 80s music. Plus, I'm using KZ's plated silver cable from my ZS3 with no apparent phase issues. I've been really enjoying the ZSE (nice comfort factor here) and ZS3 of late, but the ZS5 to me sounds so much better than these two, with more clarity in the highs whilst still offering a fun thumping at the low end. And just to add more evidence of their new design, here's a photo of the nozzles...by eye I can easily see two circles under the mesh, suggesting two BAs in there! Looking forward to trying these out on my classical/opera collection.




That's the latest version with 2 BAs in the nozzle.  I wish I had this one.


----------



## Slater

Dan-Fi said:


> And just to add more evidence of their new design, here's a photo of the nozzles...by eye I can easily see two circles under the mesh, suggesting two BAs in there! Looking forward to trying these out on my classical/opera collection.



Wow, that's the best photo evidence of the 2xBA drivers I've seen yet. Nice job!

Those BA drivers sure are filling up the nozzle. I hope there's still enough room to let a decent amount of sound from the DDs through.


----------



## skajohyros

Would love to hear a comparison between the zs5 v1, v2 and zs6 in the near future.


----------



## skajohyros

Dan-Fi said:


> Hi, my first time posting in this thread, but I've been a closet KZ collector for just over a year now, the ED9 being my first, then the ATE, HDS1, ED7, ATR, ZS3 and more recently the ZSE. All of these were purchased via Ali from various sellers, and I've never had an issue with any of these earphones. It was only last week that I decided to buy myself a ZS5 after reading so much about it here, but this time through Gearbest (first time), as they had a flash sale for $18.69. Not to rub it in on some of you guys who are still waiting for their purchases from GB, but I was pleasantly surprised to receive the ZS5 today in the mail, so it took just a week to arrive in Australia. I think I'll have to make more purchases at GB rather than Ali in future!
> 
> I haven't had much time on the ZS5 yet, but to me using (generic) foam tips is much better than their stock starlines...it seems to open up more at the high end for me while the bass still thumps as I'm listening to some 80s music. Plus, I'm using KZ's plated silver cable from my ZS3 with no apparent phase issues. I've been really enjoying the ZSE (nice comfort factor here) and ZS3 of late, but the ZS5 to me sounds so much better than these two, with more clarity in the highs whilst still offering a fun thumping at the low end. And just to add more evidence of their new design, here's a photo of the nozzles...by eye I can easily see two circles under the mesh, suggesting two BAs in there! Looking forward to trying these out on my classical/opera collection.


Do you know anyone with version 1 so you can compare?


----------



## 1clearhead

Wow! Finally I can see the double BA-twins!


----------



## skajohyros

manjunath1915 said:


> Ordered kz es3 and zse from gb flashsale



Flash sale says 10$ for es3 for me.


----------



## randomnin

skajohyros said:


> Flash sale says 10$ for es3 for me.


Every day you can get the first thirty units for 5.99 at UTC 9:00 until Sept. 11. The price will only change once in the cart. But you have to be quick, even if you put it in the cart and the price shows correctly, it could change back to regular price during checkout, if you're not among first thirty.


----------



## waveriderhawaii

skajohyros said:


> Flash sale says 10$ for es3 for me.



It's only the first 30 units sold starting at 9:00 UTC. You may have to refresh your page a lot in order to get this price. And it might not be at exactly 9:00 UTC. Today's price started at 9:07 UTC and was only for the purple.  https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-kz-earphones-special-1556.html?lkid=10690141


----------



## HungryPanda

I have to admit I made a joke by mentioned that there would be a ZS10 before Christmas (because of the rate KZ are putting out iems) not that there is actually one.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 6, 2017)

Dan-Fi said:


> Hi, my first time posting in this thread, but I've been a closet KZ collector for just over a year now, the ED9 being my first, then the ATE, HDS1, ED7, ATR, ZS3 and more recently the ZSE. All of these were purchased via Ali from various sellers, and I've never had an issue with any of these earphones. It was only last week that I decided to buy myself a ZS5 after reading so much about it here, but this time through Gearbest (first time), as they had a flash sale for $18.69. Not to rub it in on some of you guys who are still waiting for their purchases from GB, but I was pleasantly surprised to receive the ZS5 today in the mail, so it took just a week to arrive in Australia. I think I'll have to make more purchases at GB rather than Ali in future!
> 
> I haven't had much time on the ZS5 yet, but to me using (generic) foam tips is much better than their stock starlines...it seems to open up more at the high end for me while the bass still thumps as I'm listening to some 80s music. Plus, I'm using KZ's plated silver cable from my ZS3 with no apparent phase issues. I've been really enjoying the ZSE (nice comfort factor here) and ZS3 of late, but the ZS5 to me sounds so much better than these two, with more clarity in the highs whilst still offering a fun thumping at the low end. And just to add more evidence of their new design, here's a photo of the nozzles...by eye I can easily see two circles under the mesh, suggesting two BAs in there! Looking forward to trying these out on my classical/opera collection.



Oh, thank you for this. I feel really proud that my original theory about 2 BA drivers in the nozzle ended up being the truth, especially after people started posting pictures of their ZS5s and every one of them showed 1 BA. It would've been comical if KZ actually combined  BA's output and all of the photos showed only 1BA regardless of the version. This whole thing had a potential to become a disaster if people ended up comparing 2 models of the same version with minimal differences in the sound due to driver variation and not due to different version.
The fact is that people are now focused on the upcoming ZS6 while ZS5 joins the likes of ED9, ZST, ZS3 etc., but the good thing is that now we know that we have to be very careful about the details when it comes to KZ. We can't expect them to notify us of any change, but at least we know that their promo photos are very truthful to the real design and drivers are exactly like they show them.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I have to admit I made a joke by mentioned that there would be a ZS10 before Christmas (because of the rate KZ are putting out iems) not that there is actually one.



I remember that prediction! You got any good stock picks?


----------



## whisky_x (Sep 6, 2017)

Dan-Fi said:


> Hi, my first time posting in this thread, but I've been a closet KZ collector for just over a year now, the ED9 being my first, then the ATE, HDS1, ED7, ATR, ZS3 and more recently the ZSE. All of these were purchased via Ali from various sellers, and I've never had an issue with any of these earphones. It was only last week that I decided to buy myself a ZS5 after reading so much about it here, but this time through Gearbest (first time), as they had a flash sale for $18.69. Not to rub it in on some of you guys who are still waiting for their purchases from GB, but I was pleasantly surprised to receive the ZS5 today in the mail, so it took just a week to arrive in Australia. I think I'll have to make more purchases at GB rather than Ali in future!
> 
> I haven't had much time on the ZS5 yet, but to me using (generic) foam tips is much better than their stock starlines...it seems to open up more at the high end for me while the bass still thumps as I'm listening to some 80s music. Plus, I'm using KZ's plated silver cable from my ZS3 with no apparent phase issues. I've been really enjoying the ZSE (nice comfort factor here) and ZS3 of late, but the ZS5 to me sounds so much better than these two, with more clarity in the highs whilst still offering a fun thumping at the low end. And just to add more evidence of their new design, here's a photo of the nozzles...by eye I can easily see two circles under the mesh, suggesting two BAs in there! Looking forward to trying these out on my classical/opera collection.


Does the right one have 2 BA in the nozzle too?


----------



## vladstef

whisky_x said:


> Does the right one have 2 BA in the nozzle too?



Haha, I sure hope it does. This question just killed me, mostly because I knew right away that something like this is a very serious question after all, knowing what we are dealing with. Oh, the world can be funny sometimes.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Should finally be getting the ES3 and ZS5! Any tips or tricks for these kz iems?


----------



## Slater

iPhone IEM said:


> Should finally be getting the ES3 and ZS5! Any tips or tricks for these kz iems?



Yeah, on both make sure they are plugged in the correct direction, and use audiocheck.net to verify they are not wired out of phase (due to QC wiring defect or plugging them in wrong).

You can use the link in my signature to determine the correct direction to plug the wires in.

Once you do both of those things you will be golden.


----------



## Carrow

Brehhhhh


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, on both make sure they are plugged in the correct direction, and use audiocheck.net to verify they are not wired out of phase (due to QC wiring defect or plugging them in wrong).
> 
> You can use the link in my signature to determine the correct direction to plug the wires in.
> 
> Once you do both of those things you will be golden.



This is awesomeness and useful, thank you for your time and consideration.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I'm really excited.. And I don't think I will be disappointed because my personal summit finally (V6-Stage) broke a long time ago.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Took 5 years... But I finally got to 500... 
..


----------



## djmakemynight

iPhone IEM said:


> Should finally be getting the ES3 and ZS5! Any tips or tricks for these kz iems?



Plug them into ears and enjoy!


----------



## Fox2twenty

djmakemynight said:


> Plug them into ears and enjoy!


I like it. Primo advice.


----------



## -sandro-

What do you think is the one that has similar sound signature to the MH1C or more balanced, even fun? I tried the ATR and I don't like the dark and somehow V-shaped sound.


----------



## Fox2twenty

-sandro- said:


> What do you think is the one that has similar sound signature to the MH1C or more balanced, even fun? I tried the ATR and I don't like the dark and somehow V-shaped sound.


I would like to know as well


----------



## hakuzen

Dan-Fi said:


> Hi, my first time posting in this thread, but I've been a closet KZ collector for just over a year now, the ED9 being my first, then the ATE, HDS1, ED7, ATR, ZS3 and more recently the ZSE. All of these were purchased via Ali from various sellers, and I've never had an issue with any of these earphones. It was only last week that I decided to buy myself a ZS5 after reading so much about it here, but this time through Gearbest (first time), as they had a flash sale for $18.69. Not to rub it in on some of you guys who are still waiting for their purchases from GB, but I was pleasantly surprised to receive the ZS5 today in the mail, so it took just a week to arrive in Australia. I think I'll have to make more purchases at GB rather than Ali in future!
> 
> I haven't had much time on the ZS5 yet, but to me using (generic) foam tips is much better than their stock starlines...it seems to open up more at the high end for me while the bass still thumps as I'm listening to some 80s music. Plus, I'm using KZ's plated silver cable from my ZS3 with no apparent phase issues. I've been really enjoying the ZSE (nice comfort factor here) and ZS3 of late, but the ZS5 to me sounds so much better than these two, with more clarity in the highs whilst still offering a fun thumping at the low end. And just to add more evidence of their new design, here's a photo of the nozzles...by eye I can easily see two circles under the mesh, suggesting two BAs in there! Looking forward to trying these out on my classical/opera collection.


yay! despite of using the plated silver cable, did you get the mic or the no-mic version?
maybe different batches (other color, mic/no-mic) still have only one ba in the nozzle..


----------



## Mellowship

iPhone IEM said:


> I would like to know as well





-sandro- said:


> What do you think is the one that has similar sound signature to the MH1C or more balanced, even fun? I tried the ATR and I don't like the dark and somehow V-shaped sound.


 The mh1c has such a nice sound with such a frustrating cable...
Well, the new ZSE comes close to the fun signature of the Sony's. The ED9 also, but with more treble and slightly less soundstage.


----------



## vladstef

-sandro- said:


> What do you think is the one that has similar sound signature to the MH1C or more balanced, even fun? I tried the ATR and I don't like the dark and somehow V-shaped sound.



It's very hard to find an IEM similar to MH1 in the budget segment, that kind of natural and smooth sound without peaks is typically reserved for the more expensive IEMs. I think that ZS5 is a true side step compared to MH1, better bass and clarity vs better mid range and more natural highs of the MH1. I'd like to believe that ZS6 will be a true upgrade to MH1, so even if you are changing the sound signature, you end up more satisfied with the overall performance, but this remains to be seen. The reason why I mention ZS6 is because KZ's latest products (ZS5 and ES3) have improved the mid range compared to the last generation and there is no indication of that progress stopping, especially if they want to start increasing the price now that their brand name is becoming famous.

It is hard but not impossible to find an MH1 alternative, there is an interesting review of Final E3000 on headfonics and a direct comparison with MH1. They trade blows in sound department, have a similar design and driver size but MH1 isolates while E3000 is pretty open.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> It's very hard to find an IEM similar to MH1 in the budget segment, that kind of natural and smooth sound without peaks is typically reserved for the more expensive IEMs. I think that ZS5 is a true side step compared to MH1, better bass and clarity vs better mid range and more natural highs of the MH1. I'd like to believe that ZS6 will be a true upgrade to MH1, so even if you are changing the sound signature, you end up more satisfied with the overall performance, but this remains to be seen. The reason why I mention ZS6 is because KZ's latest products (ZS5 and ES3) have improved the mid range compared to the last generation and there is no indication of that progress stopping, especially if they want to start increasing the price now that their brand name is becoming famous.
> 
> It is hard but not impossible to find an MH1 alternative, there is an interesting review of Final E3000 on headfonics and a direct comparison with MH1. They trade blows in sound department, have a similar design and driver size but MH1 isolates while E3000 is pretty open.



This makes me excited to receive the ES3.


----------



## Dan-Fi (Sep 6, 2017)

skajohyros said:


> Do you know anyone with version 1 so you can compare?



@skajohyros Sorry, I don't know anyone who has a v1 ZS5 to compare with.



whisky_x said:


> Does the right one have 2 BA in the nozzle too?



@whisky_x Yes, both nozzles have 2 BAs inside them! Also, in neither of the nozzles do I see the circular shroudings on the BAs touching the grille on each nozzle. I was trying to get a close-up on super-macro, but just couldn't get the lighting/angle right to make a clear shot.



hakuzen said:


> yay! despite of using the plated silver cable, did you get the mic or the no-mic version?
> maybe different batches (other color, mic/no-mic) still have only one ba in the nozzle..



@hakuzen I sent a pm to you with a photo of the barcode sticker on the shrink wrap. I got the no-mic grey version, as that was the only one left on sale at GB at the time.

I listened to it a little more last night and did note a slight harshness at some level in the highs...sorry, I'm not proficient at explaining at what frequency it is, just observing on what I hear. I've only listened with my ZS5 for less than 3 hours, but do these guys need some genuine burn-in time to make it sound smoother?


----------



## Slater (Sep 6, 2017)

Dan-Fi said:


> I listened to it a little more last night and did note a slight harshness at some level in the highs...



Uh-oh...this is what I was afraid of with those 2 high-frequency BAs in the nozzle, firing like cannons mere millimeters from your eardrum...


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Uh-oh...this is what I was afraid of with those 2 high-frequency BAs in the nozzle, firing like cannons mere millimeters from your eardrum...


Treble canons. Alright!


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> Treble canons. Alright!



We'll have to wait and see once more people weigh in. I know a lot of you like those nails on chalkboards, er, I mean treble cannons! haha j/k


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> We'll have to wait and see once more people weigh in. I know a lot of you like those nails on chalkboards, er, I mean treble cannons! haha j/k


Lol!


----------



## 1clearhead

Mellowship said:


> The mh1c has such a nice sound with such a frustrating cable...
> Well, the new ZSE comes close to the fun signature of the Sony's. The ED9 also, but with more treble and slightly less soundstage.


In my opinion, changing the black starline tips on the ZSE to the gray starline tips made a big overall improvement.
....gotta try it!


----------



## Mellowship

1clearhead said:


> In my opinion, changing the black starline tips on the ZSE to the gray starline tips made a big overall improvement.
> ....gotta try it!


Gotta try it! Been happy with the black starlines, also tried t400 foams but they don't go well with the ZSE form factor. Thanks!


----------



## young59 (Sep 7, 2017)

Guys I just received my ZS5 and they are indeed the revised edition I can see the two drivers through the mesh I ordered on 28 August from gearbest.


----------



## Mellowship

young59 said:


> Guys I just received my ZS5 and they are indeed the revised edition I can see the two drivers through the mesh I ordered on 28 August from gearbest.


I ordered the grey ZS5 from GB too, on the 23rd August. Haven't been delivered yet. I'll post my findings once I get my hands on it.


----------



## young59 (Sep 7, 2017)

Warrning: Not a experienced person so don't quote me on things
Initial impressions IMHO they are ok the treble is too high for my taste and more importantly I am not getting any enjoyable bass my previous iem were the ZS3 but even after the @slaterlovesspam 's mod which really controlled the bass but even after that there bass were much better then ZS5.I really hope the bass/low end increases over time as they burn.Can anyone confirm weather they improve or not.

Edit: I am not saying they are bad I am just saying they don't really suit my style right now(fingers crossed for burn in)  of music(EDM maybe)


----------



## vladstef

young59 said:


> Warrning: Not a experienced person so don't quote me on things
> Initial impressions IMHO they are ok the treble is too high for my taste and more importantly I am not getting any enjoyable bass my previous iem were the ZS3 but even after the @slaterlovesspam 's mod which really controlled the bass but even after that there bass were much better then ZS5.I really hope the bass/low end increases over time as they burn.Can anyone confirm weather they improve or not.
> 
> Edit: I am not saying they are bad I am just saying they don't really suit my style right now(fingers crossed for burn in)  of music(EDM maybe)



As far as I know, you are the 2nd person to give an early impression, both had negative things to say about the treble. A bit disappointing given how ZS6 uses exactly the same drivers. The problem could be all about phasing issues because all 4 drivers in ZS5 can and do reproduce treble. If ZS6 doesn't include some kind of crossover, the same thing will happen. If the problem is in the BA drivers, then there is no hope, but I don't think that this is the case, ES3 has 1 of these 30095 and it has tamer treble compared to ZST according to people.

Anyways, this is not very reassuring, it might be exactly what happened with ZS1, instead of improving the sound, they changed things in order to save some money. It's too early to say, we need more impressions/reviews, but it certainly looks to be the case.


----------



## Viber (Sep 7, 2017)

Guys,  I have published my reviews for the ZS5 and ZSE 

KZ ZSE:     https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zse.22628/reviews#review-19140

KZ ZS5:     https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/reviews#review-19141

Hope it helps!


----------



## young59

vladstef said:


> As far as I know, you are the 2nd person to give an early impression, both had negative things to say about the treble. A bit disappointing given how ZS6 uses exactly the same drivers. The problem could be all about phasing issues because all 4 drivers in ZS5 can and do reproduce treble. If ZS6 doesn't include some kind of crossover, the same thing will happen. If the problem is in the BA drivers, then there is no hope, but I don't think that this is the case, ES3 has 1 of these 30095 and it has tamer treble compared to ZST according to people.
> 
> Anyways, this is not very reassuring, it might be exactly what happened with ZS1, instead of improving the sound, they changed things in order to save some money. It's too early to say, we need more impressions/reviews, but it certainly looks to be the case.


Yeh its still too early since I am not an experienced person even the best audio source I got is the Benjie S5 other than that its just my laptop and my phone.Could it be possible that maybe since my phone and laptop are not high end they might not be able to provide enough juice to run these quad driver to there potential?


----------



## foba

slaterlovesspam said:


> Uh-oh...this is what I was afraid of with those 2 high-frequency BAs in the nozzle, firing like cannons mere millimeters from your eardrum...



The ES3 (which has one BA right in the nozzle) is not piercing with high frequencies but rather smooth and extended, or at least thats what I percieve. I am hopeful ZS6 even with two BA´s wont be disaster, but that remains to be seen.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Yeh its still too early since I am not an experienced person even the best audio source I got is the Benjie S5 other than that its just my laptop and my phone.Could it be possible that maybe since my phone and laptop are not high end they might not be able to provide enough juice to run these quad driver to there potential?


Short answer: maybe, sort of.
Longer answer: impedance matching as well as power properties might be partial factors here - both should have more limited effects at lower volumes, but if you like to blast your music loud, source matching with them might be an issue - info lacking on the v2 yet though.

Also the ZS5 v1 at least has very *very* variant bass response depending on fit - you need a secure tip fit to get decent bass period of course, but I mean rather the fit of the housing against your ear - the more closed the back vent is, the more bass you'll get.  Fully closed (like with say some tape), the bass is pretty overwhelming imo.  To that end, different tip lengths, or tips that give you a deeper or shallower overall fit on the shell can make some pretty huge differences in how they sound.


----------



## vladstef

I consider any front vent that can be blocked just by normal usage to be a design flaw. However, it wasn't a problem for ZS5, its body stays kinda further away from my ear and that front vent was always opened the way it should be. ZS5 already has boosted bass, keeping that front vent open is a must. ZS6 has drastically reduced front vent size, it's probably just there to keep the main driver from flexing when inserting them, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Dan-Fi (Sep 7, 2017)

vladstef said:


> As far as I know, you are the 2nd person to give an early impression, both had negative things to say about the treble. A bit disappointing given how ZS6 uses exactly the same drivers. The problem could be all about phasing issues because all 4 drivers in ZS5 can and do reproduce treble. If ZS6 doesn't include some kind of crossover, the same thing will happen. If the problem is in the BA drivers, then there is no hope, but I don't think that this is the case, ES3 has 1 of these 30095 and it has tamer treble compared to ZST according to people.
> 
> Anyways, this is not very reassuring, it might be exactly what happened with ZS1, instead of improving the sound, they changed things in order to save some money. It's too early to say, we need more impressions/reviews, but it certainly looks to be the case.



@vladstef I'm doing some more listening right now, throwing some classicals at it like Habanera from Carmen, Ave Marias by Bach and Schubert, some Bach harpsichord concertos, some Pavarotti pieces from ABC's The Classic 100 Opera collection (FLAC files being played on my iPhone using Onkyo HF Player), and I think the harshness is mellowing a bit now compared to what I was listening to within the first 3 hours of opening the ZS5 package (which included some of the aforementioned works). It's certainly not as obvious as it was last night, so I'm hoping it's the DDs that need some more playtime to mellow down a bit. Only time will tell! I'm not treble sensitive, so I am enjoying these still, despite the initial harshness I was hearing.



young59 said:


> Warrning: Not a experienced person so don't quote me on things
> Initial impressions IMHO they are ok the treble is too high for my taste and more importantly I am not getting any enjoyable bass my previous iem were the ZS3 but even after the @slaterlovesspam 's mod which really controlled the bass but even after that there bass were much better then ZS5.I really hope the bass/low end increases over time as they burn.Can anyone confirm weather they improve or not.
> 
> Edit: I am not saying they are bad I am just saying they don't really suit my style right now(fingers crossed for burn in)  of music(EDM maybe)



@young59 what tips are you using? Don't use the stock black starlines, they sounded kinda meh to me, but foams do make a difference to my ears and there's definitely bass there. I just listened to my ZS3's and I'll admit the ZS5 is not as bassy as these.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Guys,  I have published my reviews for the ZS5 and ZSE
> 
> KZ ZSE:     https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zse.22628/reviews#review-19140
> 
> ...



Hey Viber - Nice review.

Now that there's (2) versions of the ZS5 though, it would be helpful to state in your review which one you've got. You can tell by looking in the nozzle with a flashlight - 1 BA driver = old version, 2 BA drivers = new version

Example photo:


----------



## Mellowship

Let's have a talk about ZS5.
Do you remember those very first old IEMs you had back in 2007-9 that you spent 30USD on, and marvelled you with that unique sense of intimacy, different from every single way you have experienced music so far? Well, with some notable exceptions, if you picked up those again today, you would ear an extreme V-shaped sound and a one-note bass, and you would only put up with it a couple of minutes. Back then, you were limited to mainstream brands like Sony (some of them were good, though, but at a cost), Pioneer (for less then 40 USD, only crap), Panasonic, Philips... For the likes of Sennheiser, the C300 was much more expensive and nothing to write home about. Around 2010, the first really good budget IEMs started to come out. Radiopaq Jazz took the lead here, and they are still good for today's standards. You could get it for 15USD on Amazon (they were priced 65 USD for a long time until they were discontinued, hence the budget tag). The point is things went a long way to the point a 6 USD KZ (for instances the ZSE or the EDSE) is better then most 30 USD IEMs you had just 7 or 8 years ago. Thanks, PRC!

Talking about the bass, which is something that seems to concern most people here and coincidentally is what differentiates the ZS5 the most: the bass in the ZS5 is very balanced and has a very natural timbre. If you can't hear its awesome definition and the ability to "put it as it is", there's something in the way. It might be one of the following:
- You had different expectations. The "thumpiness" of the typical IEM bass and mid-bass doesn't apply to the ZS5. I guess it makes for a total different experience for music stiles that rely on that unnatural quality, like EDM. If one's got used to listen to EDM on IEMs, the ZS5 is gonna behave different;
- The insertion isn't helping, i.e. the tips are not the best for your ears. The starlines that come with the ZS5 are, in my opinion, not the best way to experience its qualities, unless you have very straight and narrow ear canals. If, as for most of the people ou there, your ear canals have turns, maybe the spinfits or olives or, as in my case, t400 foams, do a better job;
- The source is not cutting it. Smartphones, impedance match, not enough power, not enough current, gain, whatever;
- Personal taste - nothing to do here... keep moving... 

If you listen to the sound of live instruments, and/or if you are accustomed to good headphones and British studio monitor speakers connected to a good amplifier, the bass of the ZS5 will sound familiar. It's what I like the most about ZS5. Moreover, I am unable to listen to any kind of bleeding of the bass and/or mid bass onto other frequencies in normal conditions. 

What I think the ZS5 could be better at: complexity! It gets slightly congested when things get busy. Nothing serious, but enough to make me avoid some kinds of music. I guess it has to do with the fact that every drive is connected equally without crossover, and the frequencies are cut off within the threshold of the drivers themselves. Maybe the ZS6 will make it better.


----------



## Slater (Sep 7, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I consider any front vent that can be blocked just by normal usage to be a design flaw. However, it wasn't a problem for ZS5, its body stays kinda further away from my ear and that front vent was always opened the way it should be. ZS5 already has boosted bass, keeping that front vent open is a must. ZS6 has drastically reduced front vent size, it's probably just there to keep the main driver from flexing when inserting them, but I could be wrong.



I agree - stupidest design ever. I don't know why IEM companies keep doing this. Well, I do - it 'looks good' because it's 'hidden'. But at least put it somewhere else out of the way - on the top or bottom near the cable relief.


----------



## Podster

So I've noticed most of the dual nozzle BA ZS5's are coming from Gearbest, does anyone know or have bought from AliEx? Was wondering if the Newest 2017 ZS5 advertisement meant they are the new version? Guess I'll know for sure once mine get off the slow boat from China


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> So I've noticed most of the dual nozzle BA ZS5's are coming from Gearbest, does anyone know or have bought from AliEx? Was wondering if the Newest 2017 ZS5 advertisement meant they are the new version? Guess I'll know for sure once mine get off the slow boat from China



It's all about inventory turnover.

I guarantee you it will be hit or miss with Aliexpress, because stock would all depend on each individual seller.

For example, a few months ago I bought a 1st gen ZS1, which haven't been sold in years. I had to contact numerous sellers to find what I wanted, but the point is that there are probably plenty of sellers that still have boxfulls of the original ZS5, and other sellers who turned their stock over quick enough that they'll receive the new version from KZ when restocking.

Gearbest IS the seller, so when they sold out of the original version and placed another order with KZ, they received the latest version.


----------



## Viber

I opened up the mash on my ZS5:




Listen, i inserted a piece of foam in the nozzle and i think it sounds better so far
I'll continue to update...


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> Let's have a talk about ZS5.
> Do you remember those very first old IEMs you had back in 2007-9 that you spent 30USD on, and marvelled you with that unique sense of intimacy, different from every single way you have experienced music so far? Well, with some notable exceptions, if you picked up those again today, you would ear an extreme V-shaped sound and a one-note bass, and you would only put up with it a couple of minutes. Back then, you were limited to mainstream brands like Sony (some of them were good, though, but at a cost), Pioneer (for less then 40 USD, only crap), Panasonic, Philips... For the likes of Sennheiser, the C300 was much more expensive and nothing to write home about. Around 2010, the first really good budget IEMs started to come out. Radiopaq Jazz took the lead here, and they are still good for today's standards. You could get it for 15USD on Amazon (they were priced 65 USD for a long time until they were discontinued, hence the budget tag). The point is things went a long way to the point a 6 USD KZ (for instances the ZSE or the EDSE) is better then most 30 USD IEMs you had just 7 or 8 years ago. Thanks, PRC!
> 
> Talking about the bass, which is something that seems to concern most people here and coincidentally is what differentiates the ZS5 the most: the bass in the ZS5 is very balanced and has a very natural timbre. If you can't hear its awesome definition and the ability to "put it as it is", there's something in the way. It might be one of the following:
> ...



Very well said.


----------



## Podster (Sep 7, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> It's all about inventory turnover.
> 
> I guarantee you it will be hit or miss with Aliexpress, because stock would all depend on each individual seller.
> 
> ...



THX @slaterlovesspam hopefully my seller is on latest batch from KZ as I have the same pair Viber has now!

LOL @groucho69 , I can't see Pratt's face without hearing Brandy in the background anymore


----------



## cirodts

Viber said:


> Guys,  I have published my reviews for the ZS5 and ZSE
> 
> KZ ZSE:     https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zse.22628/reviews#review-19140
> 
> ...





slaterlovesspam said:


> Hey Viber - Nice review.
> 
> Now that there's (2) versions of the ZS5 though, it would be helpful to state in your review which one you've got. You can tell by looking in the nozzle with a flashlight - 1 BA driver = old version, 2 BA drivers = new version
> 
> Example photo:


 Nice review.


----------



## young59

Thanks guys I do have some foam tips and will get spinfits and will see what happens and ya maybe I have been accustomed to the boomy bass of the ZS3.


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> I agree - stupidest design ever. I don't know why IEM companies keep doing this. Well, I do - it 'looks good' because it's 'hidden'. But at least put it somewhere else out of the way - on the top or bottom near the cable relief.



There are many reasons for the vent to be towards your ear. Besides looking better (subjective, I think good vent design actually improves the look of IEMs), vent brings the noise from the outside, so, having it towards your ear reduces the noise. Another, probably most important thing is that the vent has to go in the chamber between driver membrane and ending of the sound bore - when you insert IEM, air becomes pressurized and this can move the membrane and long term even damage membrane. This is why some IEMs produce that tin foil sound when you insert them - they probably have no vent to regulate this pressure. I don't think that this is a very big deal as membranes are strong enough to survive this pressure for a long time, but it's slightly uncomfortable to hear that sound when you insert them + it creates some pressure on your ear drums which is not the ideal thing, but again, not enough to really damage anything.
I used to have Sennheiser IE800 which had a very impressive solution for this. In the bore, there is a small tube that is directly connected with one of the vents on the back. Essentially, you could cover one of the vents and sound didn't change at all (this is the one used for the pressure in the canal), but covering the other one changed the sound - this one was used for the driver. Maybe it's patented in some way and that's why others are not doing similar things... that I know of, perhaps there is something similar elsewhere.
ZS5 has a regular vent system but ZS6 is effectively open on the back, it will be interesting to hear how it sounds/isolates.


----------



## Viber (Sep 7, 2017)

Viber said:


> I opened up the mash on my ZS5:
> 
> 
> Listen, i inserted a piece of foam in the nozzle and i think it sounds better so far
> I'll continue to update...




I might be crazy but i put some foam around the BA driver inside the nozzle, the sound so far is






I can truly say these earphones are more capable now.  If you found the ZS5 too thin\shrill or raw on *some* tracks then you might wanna try this.


*Note that taking the metal mash off is a pain and you might not be able to put it back on.*


----------



## young59

Guys I have been using the ZS5 revised edition for some hours now used some better tips now. I don't know weather it was burn-in or just me getting used to the sound but can certainly appreciate the sound specially the bass/low end now. So anyone how gets them just give them some time. Really happy with them thanks everyone


----------



## TJK81

Hello guys,
i'm newbie here, but have been following this forum for maybe two month. I'm owner of several chi-fi iem's (such as QKZ DM300...my first, Einsear T2, KZ ZS3... which i like most and KZ ZST). Still waiting for ES3 and newly ZS5 which i purchased today. Curious to know which revision of the KZ5's i'll recieve.


----------



## Fox2twenty

1clearhead said:


> In my opinion, changing the black starline tips on the ZSE to the gray starline tips made a big overall improvement.
> ....gotta try it!


. 

Tip rolling seems to be a top tip for kz customers. Very good.


----------



## Fox2twenty

@Viber
Cool review, I liked the zs5 reveiw where you convered different works /pieces. I love Hans Zimmer, so I'm getting excited.


----------



## Selenium

So KZ makes their own BA drivers? I thought that was something pretty much only the big boys did, and even then most companies get theirs from Knowles or Sonion. I remember when it was a big deal when Sony started making their own! 

Anyway... I hope the ZS6 sounds as good as it looks.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I opened up the mash on my ZS5:
> 
> 
> Listen, i inserted a piece of foam in the nozzle and i think it sounds better so far
> I'll continue to update...



Nice! Did you do it in the WHOLE nozzle, or just the BA driver's nozzle like the ZST foam mod?


----------



## -sandro-

vladstef said:


> It's very hard to find an IEM similar to MH1 in the budget segment, that kind of natural and smooth sound without peaks is typically reserved for the more expensive IEMs. I think that ZS5 is a true side step compared to MH1, better bass and clarity vs better mid range and more natural highs of the MH1. I'd like to believe that ZS6 will be a true upgrade to MH1, so even if you are changing the sound signature, you end up more satisfied with the overall performance, but this remains to be seen. The reason why I mention ZS6 is because KZ's latest products (ZS5 and ES3) have improved the mid range compared to the last generation and there is no indication of that progress stopping, especially if they want to start increasing the price now that their brand name is becoming famous.
> 
> It is hard but not impossible to find an MH1 alternative, there is an interesting review of Final E3000 on headfonics and a direct comparison with MH1. They trade blows in sound department, have a similar design and driver size but MH1 isolates while E3000 is pretty open.



Thanks very informative. I'm also interested in the Einsear T2 that seems pretty similar from the reviews...
What I hate about the Sony is the cable and also the fit is not tight  But the sound just can't be beaten... 
But then again, when I chose the ATR I wasn't expecting this sound signature from what I read so it's really difficult to decide like this...


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> There are many reasons for the vent to be towards your ear. Besides looking better (subjective, I think good vent design actually improves the look of IEMs), vent brings the noise from the outside, so, having it towards your ear reduces the noise. Another, probably most important thing is that the vent has to go in the chamber between driver membrane and ending of the sound bore - when you insert IEM, air becomes pressurized and this can move the membrane and long term even damage membrane. This is why some IEMs produce that tin foil sound when you insert them - they probably have no vent to regulate this pressure. I don't think that this is a very big deal as membranes are strong enough to survive this pressure for a long time, but it's slightly uncomfortable to hear that sound when you insert them + it creates some pressure on your ear drums which is not the ideal thing, but again, not enough to really damage anything.
> I used to have Sennheiser IE800 which had a very impressive solution for this. In the bore, there is a small tube that is directly connected with one of the vents on the back. Essentially, you could cover one of the vents and sound didn't change at all (this is the one used for the pressure in the canal), but covering the other one changed the sound - this one was used for the driver. Maybe it's patented in some way and that's why others are not doing similar things... that I know of, perhaps there is something similar elsewhere.
> ZS5 has a regular vent system but ZS6 is effectively open on the back, it will be interesting to hear how it sounds/isolates.



Good points.

But aren't the large grille vents on the ZS6 just as larger and less 'concealed' version of the side vents on the faceplate of the ZS5?


----------



## Fox2twenty

young59 said:


> Guys I have been using the ZS5 revised edition for some hours now used some better tips now. I don't know weather it was burn-in or just me getting used to the sound but can certainly appreciate the sound specially the bass/low end now. So anyone how gets them just give them some time. Really happy with them thanks everyone



Nice impressions. Thanks for sharing! I'm getting excited.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 7, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Good points.
> 
> But aren't the large grille vents on the ZS6 just as larger and less 'concealed' version of the side vents on the faceplate of the ZS5?



The area of these new vents is many times larger than those small lines on the ZS5. Actually, they are not vents now but an open back design. I think that part of the reason why ZS5 has a relatively wide sound stage is because there is a lot of air in the housing behind drivers, and this is also why they could pull off small vents without damaging the sound. This air in the back becomes irrelevant for ZS6 as it's mixed so much with the outside air, meaning that it's an open back. It's not common for IEMs to be open, even ones that look like they are open actually just hide a small vent behind a larger grill. The only one that comes to mind is Audeze iSine series, but these are already very unique.
I am 99% sure that ZS6 actually has fully open 3 grilles and not just a small vent hole behind them.

E: on a closer inspection, the mesh is quite dense, effectively these grills are 2 times smaller than they appear to be, this is more of a semi-open design, still one of the most open designs for IEMs.


----------



## -sandro-

Viber said:


> Guys,  I have published my reviews for the ZS5 and ZSE
> 
> KZ ZSE:     https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zse.22628/reviews#review-19140
> 
> ...



From this seems like the ZSE is the sound signature that comes closer to my likings while the ZS5 is just a must have in general, in the same time you say U shaped? My favourite sound signature of all time I wasn't able to find anywhere else has it the (don't laugh) the stock Samsung eims that came with the samsung s3 or similar. And it has been description as U-shaped. Of course the quality is not high level...so who knows. I'm wondering at this point if the ZSE is (technically) better than the Sony MH1C or just on par but with a decent cable.


----------



## Podster

Sort of like comparing a vented speaker to a non vented/ported one (Acoustical) My first ever two pairs of speakers were Advent Larger's (Non Ported) and JBL L-36's Ported or Vented as some say.


----------



## groucho69

Fox2twenty said:


> Nice impressions. Thanks for sharing! I'm getting excited.



Is that a ZS5 in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?


----------



## Viber (Sep 7, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> @Viber
> Cool review, I liked the zs5 reveiw where you convered different works /pieces. I love Hans Zimmer, so I'm getting excited.



\yeah, he's kinda my idol lol.
Hans Zimmer - Tennessee is also very good on the ZS5.


----------



## Viber

-sandro- said:


> From this seems like the ZSE is the sound signature that comes closer to my likings while the ZS5 is just a must have in general, in the same time you say U shaped? My favourite sound signature of all time I wasn't able to find anywhere else has it the (don't laugh) the stock Samsung eims that came with the samsung s3 or similar. And it has been description as U-shaped. Of course the quality is not high level...so who knows. I'm wondering at this point if the ZSE is (technically) better than the Sony MH1C or just on par but with a decent cable.



I wouldn't say it's U-Shaped.  Imagine an earphone trying to do all the frequencies at once.
 It's almost neutral to my ears but sometimes its like someone added a subwoofer in a room and sometimes it feels as if the response starts high in the treble and ends almost neutral in the bass like:




Overall i'd say that it's obvious that the high pitched driver is more dominant in regular non edm songs.


----------



## Viber (Sep 7, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Nice! Did you do it in the WHOLE nozzle, or just the BA driver's nozzle like the ZST foam mod?



Thanks, at first i did it to the whole nozzle because i thought that the BA is responsible for what I've perceived as "extra highs". I noticed that by doing so the earphones sound better but less...detailed? i don't know how to explain it, but it lost some of it's special "ZS5 magic".

So i put the foam only around the BA making sure it doesn't block the BA and now i feel as if i'm getting all the mids and highs which make the ZS5 unique while the Dynamic drivers are back there taking care of the bass and the mids  (note that i don't really know what im talking about from a technical standpoint haha).

I really don't understand why they put this foam in the ZS3 which is dark by nature, but not in the ZS5 when it's clearly needed in the ZS5.

I'll try it again tomorrow. Maybe it's placebo, but today i felt as if they managed to pass "test tracks" that which didn't pass before.  I was just going thru this huge playlist with a big smile on my face thinking about getting another ZS5.


----------



## groucho69

Viber said:


> Thanks, at first i did it to the whole nozzle because i thought that the BA is responsible for what I've perceived as "extra highs". I noticed that by doing so the earphones sound better but less...detailed? i don't know how to explain it, but it lost some of it's special "ZS5 magic".
> 
> So i put the foam only around the BA making sure it doesn't block the BA and now i feel as if i'm getting all the mids and highs which make the ZS5 unique while the Dynamic drivers are back there taking care of the bass and the mids  (note that i don't really know what im talking about from a technical standpoint haha).
> 
> ...



Sounds like your doing PDG for a guy who doesn't know what he's doing.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Will report back later..
..


----------



## vector84 (Sep 7, 2017)

Viber said:


> Thanks, at first i did it to the whole nozzle because i thought that the BA is responsible for what I've perceived as "extra highs". I noticed that by doing so the earphones sound better but less...detailed? i don't know how to explain it, but it lost some of it's special "ZS5 magic".
> 
> So i put the foam only around the BA making sure it doesn't block the BA and now i feel as if i'm getting all the mids and highs which make the ZS5 unique while the Dynamic drivers are back there taking care of the bass and the mids  (note that i don't really know what im talking about from a technical standpoint haha).
> 
> ...


Couple questions regarding what you're up to here:
what kind of foam did you use?
and just how deep did you push it down into the nozzle?

Since I had the bits laying around, I took the foam from a set of ZS3s and messed around with installing it as you describe at a couple different depths - either close to flush with the end of the BA nozzle or further in around more of the body of the BA and both produced slightly different results.

A few crude measurements suggest seating it deeper produces a slightly stronger deviation.  Also EQing an unmodded set to attempt to replicate the effect definitely doesn't sound the same to me, but on crude measurements I was seeing a pretty significant pull down that looked rather like a narrow peak filter at around 4 kHz.


Now to figure out what size screen will fit the ZS5 as a replacement so I can do this to a properly working set...
(I did this to my moderately broken set since the screens were already off)


Also first impressions would be it seems to clean up some problem tracks some, but I'm reticent to comment much more - moderately broken set and all...


----------



## WildSeven

Looks like ZS6 is made of aluminum body with screws this time, if someone plans to get it please do a full disassembly and lets see the guts.


----------



## snip3r77

WildSeven said:


> Looks like ZS6 is made of aluminum body with screws this time, if someone plans to get it please do a full disassembly and lets see the guts.



pls ask that youtube guy who did the ZS5 to do it.


----------



## WildSeven

snip3r77 said:


> pls ask that youtube guy who did the ZS5 to do it.


That video made me not getting the ZS5, for whatever reason the placement of that 2nd BA driver is ridiculous, almost like they slap it on just for their marketing gimmick.


----------



## Slater

snip3r77 said:


> pls ask that youtube guy who did the ZS5 to do it.



Yeah, because he was so reliable and unbiased with the ZS5! haha

No, I trust one of us head-fiers for this job.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

What is the lowest price currently on the KZ ZS6? Where I can buy?


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 7, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> From this seems like the ZSE is the sound signature that comes closer to my likings while the ZS5 is just a must have in general, in the same time you say U shaped? My favourite sound signature of all time I wasn't able to find anywhere else has it the (don't laugh) the stock Samsung eims that came with the samsung s3 or similar. And it has been description as U-shaped. Of course the quality is not high level...so who knows. I'm wondering at this point if the ZSE is (technically) better than the Sony MH1C or just on par but with a decent cable.


Yea, paying for an IEM at such a low price you'll have to expect the cables to be a little cheaper, while a shirt-clip (a big plus) will do the job of lessening cable distortion. But, throw in the "gray starline ear tips" on the ZSE (if they fit your ear canals) and they will probably be your most prized personal gem.


----------



## WildSeven

1clearhead said:


> Yea, paying for an IEM at such a low price you'll have to expect the cables to be a little cheaper, while a shirt-clip (a big plus) will do the job of lessening cable distortion. But, throw in the "gray starline tips" on the ZSE (if they fit your ear canals) and they will probably be your most prized personal gem.


Totally agree, finding the best tip that fits you and you only is definitely more important then the cable.


----------



## Slater

HUGO SILVA said:


> What is the lowest price currently on the KZ ZS6? Where I can buy?



$32 from Gearbest is the best price I've seen so far.


----------



## Dan-Fi

1clearhead said:


> Yea, paying for an IEM at such a low price you'll have to expect the cables to be a little cheaper, while a shirt-clip (a big plus) will do the job of lessening cable distortion. But, throw in the "gray starline ear tips" on the ZSE (if they fit your ear canals) and they will probably be your most prized personal gem.



@1clearhead have you tried using JVC spiral dots? I've been using these (mediums for me) on my ZSE since I got it a few weeks ago instead of the stock black starlines. Last night I tried your suggestion of using the old grey starlines and they sound very similar to the spiral dots. Definitely different and better sounding to me than the stock tips. 

The reason I use the spiral dots is that their height is low and the ZSEs fit very snugly on my ear and is super-comfortable to listen with in bed.


----------



## sghound

spirals are amazing with zs5


----------



## Fox2twenty

So far the regular tips are doing fine. On zs5.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Holy crap electric guitars sear the brain with these beautiful Treble  Cannons. ZS5..


----------



## smsmasters

Did anyone see the $5.99 deal price on the ES3 today? I checked from 08:00 to 10:00 UTC and the price didn't change at checkout.


----------



## vic2vic

smsmasters said:


> Did anyone see the $5.99 deal price on the ES3 today? I checked from 08:00 to 10:00 UTC and the price didn't change at checkout.



 it usually takes 10 to 20 second before all available ES3 at $5.99 deal price are gone.
Yesterday I managed to put 1 ES3 in my cart at the lower price, but when I pressed the "Buy" button it was already sold out.


----------



## young59 (Sep 8, 2017)

So I was using the ZS5 for a day now the bass has improved but I can't enjoy them there is harsh high sound  these are hampering my listening experience can't listen to them for more than half an hour now.Is there a way to decrease the treble/high end.I didn't notice it earlier since I didn't listen to long hours now that I did I just can't ignore. I am starting to thing either there might be something wrong with my pair Or If this is due the revised edition with the two BA in the front I just might end up skipping the ZS6 I was really looking forward for them guess will have to wait till Kz releases another iem.


----------



## Viber

vector84 said:


> Couple questions regarding what you're up to here:
> what kind of foam did you use?
> and just how deep did you push it down into the nozzle?
> 
> ...



1. I used a very common black foam, the kind they use to protect Computer parts. It was used in the box inside my AMD graphics card. You can use any foam which is not too dense because you want it to mellow out the sound, but you don't want it to block the sound. You need these tiny holes in the foam.  Don't use cheap yellow foam found in old pillows as it tends to crumble.

2. You don't want to push it down too deep in the nozzle as it can get lost down there. 
You also dont want to use a piece too small as it would fall into the earphone itself.
Just make sure that it surrounds the BA and that it's snug enough to stay put.

3. Obviously, this isn't science. It's impossible for us to put the exact amount of foam or the exact type of foam , plus our ear canels and hearing as a whole is different.  So our results WILL vary.


----------



## crabdog

young59 said:


> So I was using the ZS5 for a day now the bass has improved but I can't enjoy them there is harsh high sound  these are hampering my listening experience can't listen to them for more than half an hour now.Is there a way to decrease the treble/high end.I didn't notice it earlier since I didn't listen to long hours now that I did I just can't ignore. I am starting to thing either there might be something wrong with my pair Or If this is due the revised edition with the two BA in the front I just might end up skipping the ZS6 I was really looking forward for them guess will have to wait till Kz releases another iem.


Or you could wait until some people have left their actual impressions here because at this stage nobody knows what the ZS6 will sound like.


----------



## young59

crabdog said:


> Or you could wait until some people have left their actual impressions here because at this stage nobody knows what the ZS6 will sound like.


Yeah I will probably wait and for people here to review them I was going to buy them once them drop in price a little like the ZS5 did but now I am definitely wait for thorough reviews


----------



## vladstef

young59 said:


> So I was using the ZS5 for a day now the bass has improved but I can't enjoy them there is harsh high sound  these are hampering my listening experience can't listen to them for more than half an hour now.Is there a way to decrease the treble/high end.I didn't notice it earlier since I didn't listen to long hours now that I did I just can't ignore. I am starting to thing either there might be something wrong with my pair Or If this is due the revised edition with the two BA in the front I just might end up skipping the ZS6 I was really looking forward for them guess will have to wait till Kz releases another iem.





crabdog said:


> Or you could wait until some people have left their actual impressions here because at this stage nobody knows what the ZS6 will sound like.



I still don't think that the problem is strictly in the BAs. Adding one more BA should only improve the high end because you are stressing the drivers less in order to produce the same volume of sound. There are 2 things that will change going from ZS5 to ZS6: peaks in the treble will change due to metal nozzle and a different mesh on the end of it, but more importantly, cross over where frequencies are properly divided could completely fix the high end. I strongly believe that unnatural highs of ZS5 v1 were due to phasing issues and things didn't improve going to v2 obviously, but treble is very clear, KZ's 30095 BA is very good and close to the real Knowles BA it's based on.


----------



## young59

Well I really hope what you are saying turns out to be true I really want the ZS6 to be great now that I am looking for a replacement for the my ZS5 v2


----------



## cirodts

has not anyone yet tried the zs6?


----------



## TheWongWrong

So yeah out of curiousity I decided to try a few different sources and I found that the ZST definitely does change quite a bit with different sources. Just putting a little bit of foam inside the ear tip (as an experiment, can't be bothered to open up the grill lol) does remove the sibilance without any noticeable detrimental effects, at least not to my ears. Was a fun experiment, testing out how different amounts of foam change the sound.


----------



## Slater

cirodts said:


> has not anyone yet tried the zs6?



It's only being pre-ordered at the current time.


----------



## HungryPanda

ES3 has been delivered and sounding good


----------



## Lord Rexter

Does any one know if the KZ ZS5 Blue on sale currently at Gearbest is revision 2? It's very tempting at $17.59.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms (Sep 8, 2017)

Lord Rexter said:


> Does any one know if the KZ ZS5 Blue on sale currently at Gearbest is revision 2? It's very tempting at $17.59.



Most probably, since somebody else has already received the second revision from Gearbest (even though it was the grey version).


----------



## vladstef

Very excited about ZS6, only about a week left until we get impressions from China. Hopefully you people will post here your impressions or at least what you find, even if it's poorly translated.


----------



## Lord Rexter

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Most probably, since somebody else has already received the second revision from Gearbest (even though it was the grey version).



Alright, will book one now. I have KZ ZS5 revision 1 grey color and wanted to get revision 2 in Blue


----------



## Fox2twenty

Have to say, the zs5 is pretty bright, but sounds great with electric guitars..


----------



## TJK81

Lord Rexter said:


> Does any one know if the KZ ZS5 Blue on sale currently at Gearbest is revision 2? It's very tempting at $17.59.


I contacted gearbest guys with the question about stocked of the second rev. of the ZS5. They responded to me with simple answer. NO. Really funny because guys here already recieved rev.2 just from GB.


----------



## vladstef

TJK81 said:


> I contacted gearbest guys with the question about stocked of the second rev. of the ZS5. They responded to me with simple answer. NO. Really funny because guys here already recieved rev.2 just from GB.



Like someone said here, not even KZ knows what's going on.


----------



## Lord Rexter (Sep 8, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Like someone said here, not even KZ knows what's going on.


Well I couldn't have said it more right.


----------



## Francisk

WildSeven said:


> That video made me not getting the ZS5, for whatever reason the placement of that 2nd BA driver is ridiculous, almost like they slap it on just for their marketing gimmick.


Hah...you just don't know what you're missing


----------



## Francisk

young59 said:


> So I was using the ZS5 for a day now the bass has improved but I can't enjoy them there is harsh high sound  these are hampering my listening experience can't listen to them for more than half an hour now.Is there a way to decrease the treble/high end.I didn't notice it earlier since I didn't listen to long hours now that I did I just can't ignore. I am starting to thing either there might be something wrong with my pair Or If this is due the revised edition with the two BA in the front I just might end up skipping the ZS6 I was really looking forward for them guess will have to wait till Kz releases another iem.


Pair the ZS5 with the Comply T400 tips and you'd be pleasantly surprised


----------



## -sandro-

Maybe it's better to wait before getting the zs5, maybe the zs6 can replace it?


----------



## Carrow

ZSEs went out this morning, much hype!


----------



## cirodts

zs5 and SpinFit CP100-M the sound is too bright not good.


----------



## Francisk

cirodts said:


> zs5 and SpinFit CP100-M the sound is too bright not good.


The Comply T400 is the best combination with ZS5 for me


----------



## Fox2twenty

Francisk said:


> The Comply T400 is the best combination with ZS5 for me


I will try this later


----------



## bjaardker

> The Comply T400 is the best combination with ZS5 for me



I went with the TS-200s. The 400s slid off of the nozzle too easily and one ended up stuck in my ear.


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> Maybe it's better to wait before getting the zs5, maybe the zs6 can replace it?



But then once the ZS6 is out, you could make the same argument about the ZS10.

There's usually ALWAYS something better coming down the road. Just gotta go with the best available at the present time, unless you can afford to wait.


----------



## Slater

bjaardker said:


> I went with the TS-200s. The 400s slid off of the nozzle too easily and one ended up stuck in my ear.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Are ts200s smaller? T400s usually put too much pressure on my ears.


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> But then once the ZS6 is out, you could make the same argument about the ZS10.
> 
> There's usually ALWAYS something better coming down the road. Just gotta go with the best available at the present time, unless you can afford to wait.



Audio equipment doesn't work like this, generally speaking. Look at Sennheiser for example, they released a flagship in 2009 and even the revised S version didn't make the old model obsolete, 8 years of a single flagship in a way. Same things are happening with other models, they make smaller changes over a long period of time because audio equipment doesn't loose value, or does so in a very slow fashion.
Chi-fi changed this approach with exponential improvement in the last few years but it will have to reach plateau at some point, there aren't other options. I thought that ZSR was going to be it when rumors started, but now I am thinking we might be a few years away. Once KZ makes a model that is budget yet has a flagship performance (from 5-6-7 years ago), that is when progress will have to slow down, but it will probably happen even sooner.


----------



## bjaardker

Fox2twenty said:


> Are ts200s smaller? T400s usually put too much pressure on my ears.



Not really, the number refers to the size of the inner diameter. If you are getting too much pressure, try a smaller size (small instead of medium).


----------



## SHAMuuu

ATE+Comply (think 200) resulted in decent vibes. With re400 at like 45 American bones, though,.... Dr. Fang Bian don't play


----------



## Francisk (Sep 8, 2017)

bjaardker said:


> I went with the TS-200s. The 400s slid off of the nozzle too easily and one ended up stuck in my ear.


Just make sure that you clean the ZS5 nozzle with a soft tissue to remove any oily substance and then gently push the Comply T400 tips right to the end of the nozzle to get a secure fit to avoid the tips from getting stuck in your ears. I've actually tried many tips including the TS200 but somehow the T400 is the only one that's capable of taming the high frequency peaks and sounds the smoothest at the top end yet retaining the extension.


----------



## Francisk

Fox2twenty said:


> Are ts200s smaller? T400s usually put too much pressure on my ears.


Experiment with different size of the T400 tips and see which one fits you best. I actually settled for the medium size T400 that's one size smaller than my usual large tips size. I've discovered that using a one size smaller T400 actually tighten the bass with less bloat at the bottom and allowing the mids to come through more clearly and high frequency peaks are tamed, giving a very smooth sounding top end yet retaining the top end extension.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Francisk said:


> Experiment with different size of the T400 tips and see which one fits you best. I actually settled for the medium size T400 that's one size smaller than my usual large tips size. I've discovered that using a one size smaller T400 actually tighten the bass with less bloat at the bottom and allowing the mids to come through more clearly and high frequency peaks are tamed, giving a very smooth sounding top end yet retaining the top end extension.



Great tip, thank you


----------



## Dan-Fi

Fox2twenty said:


> Have to say, the zs5 is pretty bright, but sounds great with electric guitars..


Hey Fox2twenty, where and when did you receive these blue ZS5's? Can you see 2 BAs ib the nozzles? Curious, as Lord Rexter was asking about this from GB....


----------



## Fox2twenty

Dan-Fi said:


> Hey Fox2twenty, where and when did you receive these blue ZS5's? Can you see 2 BAs ib the nozzles? Curious, as Lord Rexter was asking about this from GB....



These are indeed from Gearbest..... soooo, I tried to use a flashlight to see... I can't tell... Hold on.. let me try to use my cellphone flash


----------



## Fox2twenty

@Dan-Fi, what do you think?


----------



## Fox2twenty

I think I see one.. Oh well.


----------



## Francisk

Fox2twenty said:


> Are ts200s smaller? T400s usually put too much pressure on my ears.


Here's the photos of the Comply T400 and TS200 for comparison. Generally the T400 attenuates more of the high frequency peaks than the TS200.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Trying comply T400s right now.. I think they are medium.. Whatever came with my Phaiser bhs-730.. Seems improved..


----------



## Fox2twenty

Listening to Civil War by GNfngR.. The drums are certainly better now with the comply tips. They're certainly more comfortable.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Listening to Civil War by GNfngR.. The drums are certainly better now with the comply tips. They're certainly more comfortable.


Woah, and the thunderstorm at the end was pretty realistic.


----------



## Dan-Fi (Sep 9, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> @Dan-Fi, what do you think?



@Fox2twenty it's really hard to tell from that photo as it is focussed on the shell, not the grille. It took me many goes to get a decent picture.... certainly not an easy one to capture. It's best if you just try and look inside by eye at different angles to see if you can make out the BAs.


----------



## vladstef

I noticed something interesting going through ZS6 photos. On some photos where you can kind of see inside the nozzle, it's always just 1 BA that's visible, regardless of the angle of camera. They took photos of prototypes and not final units.
They changed things quite late into development, a bit strange imho. Also, KZ's official ali store is now selling ZS6 for 70$ which is bold for something that comes in small plastic box with no accessories, even knowing that KZ store is always more expensive than the rest.


----------



## Francisk

vladstef said:


> I noticed something interesting going through ZS6 photos. On some photos where you can kind of see inside the nozzle, it's always just 1 BA that's visible, regardless of the angle of camera. They took photos of prototypes and not final units.
> They changed things quite late into development, a bit strange imho. Also, KZ's official ali store is now selling ZS6 for 70$ which is bold for something that comes in small plastic box with no accessories, even knowing that KZ store is always more expensive than the rest.


Could it be one of those twin BA drivers with a single barrel output?


----------



## vladstef (Sep 9, 2017)

Francisk said:


> Could it be one of those twin BA drivers with a single barrel output?



No, for sure. 2 BAs would occupy almost all of the space inside nozzle, so if it was just one output, it would be in the center.
It will have 2 BAs on final unit, but still strange that they photographed prototypes for promotion images.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 9, 2017)

vladstef said:


> No, for sure. 2 BAs would occupy almost all of the space inside nozzle, so if it was just one output, it would be dead in the center.
> It will have 2 BAs on final unit, but still strange that they photographed prototypes for promotion images.


From your description it looks like the BA barrel is off center so we'll need to confirm with the 1st person who gets hold of the ZS6 first if KZ has changed their specs again.


----------



## Holypal

I wish KZ could sell these shells for $10 a pair.


----------



## vladstef

Francisk said:


> From your description it looks like the BA barrel is off center so we'll need to confirm with the 1st person who gets hold of the ZS6 first if KZ has changed their specs again.



Hey, I know as much as anyone here. Just carefully inspecting the photo, it's 1 BA offset to the side, like it is on ZS5 v1. That + the fact that inside chamber of ZS6 has a hole where BA would sit makes me thing that ZS6 was going to have same configuration as ZS5 v1. This is also why I thought that these photos had to have been of prototypes.


----------



## vladstef

Holypal said:


> I wish KZ could sell these shells for $10 a pair.



God damn, some units will probably have scratches, they should've kept all parts separated until final assembly...


----------



## fuzun




----------



## fuzun (Sep 9, 2017)

.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

fuzun said:


>



That fake screw though... it makes me feel unsettled.


----------



## crabdog

BunchOfAtoms said:


> That fake screw though... it makes me feel unsettled.


ROFL  

I think I'll come back to this thread after ZS6 is in people's hands.


----------



## vladstef

BunchOfAtoms said:


> That fake screw though... it makes me feel unsettled.



I could even understand doing something like that for aesthetic reasons, but not like this just for the sake of copying something even more.
I see other bigger problems though, that tuning paper on the first image is sad, already seeing it as a quality issue.
Maybe there is a frequency divider on the driver circuit boards, there is an electric component of sorts on the micro driver, someone who has more knowledge of how cross overs work could explain better.


----------



## Slater

BunchOfAtoms said:


> That fake screw though... it makes me feel unsettled.



Yeah, I stand corrected on that. A fake screw contributing nothing but unnecessary weight. Who would have thought.


----------



## Francisk

Looks like it's all speculation until the ZS6 lands.


----------



## Slater (Sep 9, 2017)

vladstef said:


> I could even understand doing something like that for aesthetic reasons, but not like this just for the sake of copying something even more.
> I see other bigger problems though, that tuning paper on the first image is sad, already seeing it as a quality issue.
> Maybe there is a frequency divider on the driver circuit boards, there is an electric component of sorts on the micro driver, someone who has more knowledge of how cross overs work could explain better.



That isn't tuning paper. It's a small piece of masking tape to prevent the pins from the 2-pin plug from shorting the small DD driver. The ZS5 has the same thing.

Also, that crossover looks like the same basic design (size, shape, number of components) as the one used on the ZS1 v1 (not sure if the resistor values are the same).

Like you, I don't know enough about passive crossovers to comment on the crossover itself, but my off the cuff reaction is that it looks kind of small and extremely simple to me for something with 4 drivers. The one for the VJJB N1 was much larger and more complicated, and that IEM only has 3 drivers.

Obviously as others are saying, it's all speculation at this point.


----------



## foba

Whole lot of critique and worry for a sub 50usd 4-driver aluminum alloy interchangeable cable IEMs. Come on people. There has never been a better time in earphones market than today.


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> That isn't tuning paper. It's a small piece of masking tape to prevent the pins from the 2-pin plug from shorting the small DD driver. The ZS5 has the same thing.
> 
> Also, that crossover looks like the same basic design (size, shape, number of components) as the the one used on the ZS1 v1 (not sure if the resistor values are the same).
> 
> ...



That paper looks like it could block the opening on the driver but oh well, doesn't matter.
ZS5 has essentially 3 drivers as 2 of them are the same. Perhaps it was enough of circuit board surface on the back of drivers for successful implementation. I just can't see KZ straight up lying about this.


----------



## snip3r77

foba said:


> Whole lot of critique and worry for a sub 50usd 4-driver aluminum alloy interchangeable cable IEMs. Come on people. There has never been a better time in earphones market than today.


Once it's released everyone will go gaga


----------



## Shadowsora

All this stuff about ZS5 being harsh made me regret my purschase already, I ordered ZS6 as well at 25$ from gearbest a couple of days ago.
I hope they indeed crossover this time and make it something special.


----------



## Mellowship

Just to clear up that foam sizes:
The T value = the inner diameter = IEM bore diameter.
T100 is the narrowest, for the likes of Shure ES lineup.
T200 is somewhere between 3 and 4 mm, good for most Sony IEMs, the Vivo xe800 and the KZ ED7.
T400 and 500 should fit everything between 4 and 5 millimeters, namely most IEMs with the typical 4.8mm bore. 
The outer diameter has to do with your ear canals and varies roughly between 8 and 13mm, and is quoted as "small"(sometimes xtrasmall), "medium" and "large" (sometimes xtralarge). 
Example: if you go on AE and wish to order 5 pairs of the many faux comply tips with memory foam outside and silicone inside, and of you want various sizes for, let's say, 1 Shure se 215, 1 KZ ED7 and 3 KZ (1 ATE, 1 ZS3, 1 ZS5), and you have large ear canals, and you are given colours to choose from, you should put on the comment section something like:

1 pair T100, large, grey.
1 pair T200, large, black.
2 pairs T400, large, blue.
1 pair T400, large, red.

Just spend some 5 dollars on those foamies so you have something to choose from when tip rolling. Almost mandatory for the ZS5 and the ZST.


----------



## ioques

Yeah, I also want the best IEM in the world  (like if that exists in a absolute way) for 25 €... 

Now really, I know what I will get is absolute fun.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 9, 2017)

Mellowship said:


> Just to clear up that foam sizes:
> The T value = the inner diameter = IEM bore diameter.
> T100 is the narrowest, for the likes of Shure ES lineup.
> T200 is somewhere between 3 and 4 mm, good for most Sony IEMs, the Vivo xe800 and the KZ ED7.
> ...


Take note that T and TS are both different series and they both sound different from each other. The T400 tames the high frequency peaks better The number signifies the nozzle bore size if I'm not wrong.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I can confirm - tip rolling is important for the zs5.

I think, IMHO, some kind of foam or hybrid tip is necessary.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 9, 2017)

Shadowsora said:


> All this stuff about ZS5 being harsh made me regret my purschase already, I ordered ZS6 as well at 25$ from gearbest a couple of days ago.
> I hope they indeed crossover this time and make it something special.


Don't worry Shadowsora, I had the same impression when I received my ZS5. I then did some tip rolling and found that the Comply T400 tips do tame all the harsh high frequency peaks successfully to produce a far better sound than the stock Starline tips. I actually pulled the ZS5 with stock Starline tips out of my ears after my initial 20 seconds of listening to it.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

Speaking of foam tips... I can't seem to find (cheap) round-shaped foam tips other than medium-sized on AE or any other website. I would like to try small ones.
Do you have links?


----------



## Francisk (Sep 9, 2017)

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Speaking of foam tips... I can't seem to find (cheap) round-shaped foam tips other than medium-sized on AE or any other website. I would like to try small ones.
> Do you have links?


You can find those round shaped foam tips at AliExpress but I have absolutely no experience with them so I can't tell if they sound like the real Comply tips. I have ordered a bunch of those China T400 foam tips but they haven't arrived yet. I'll report back once I receive them.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

Francisk said:


> You can find those round shaped foam tips at AliExpress but I have absolutely no experience with them so I can't tell if they sound like the real comply tips.



Sure I can find and already have medium ones. But small?


----------



## SHAMuuu

Francisk said:


> Don't worry Shadowsora, the Comply T400 tips will tame all the harsh peaks.



Comply tips are magic. Hella pricey, but you know.


----------



## Viber

Shadowsora said:


> All this stuff about ZS5 being harsh made me regret my purschase already, I ordered ZS6 as well at 25$ from gearbest a couple of days ago.
> I hope they indeed crossover this time and make it something special.



I posted my optional mod for the ZS5 a few pages back.
I have ultra sensitive ears and i think that after the mod the ZS5 are the best IEMs I've tried.

Plus - EQs exist, So it's not the end of the world if you don't like them right of the box.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SHAMuuu said:


> Comply tips are magic. Hella pricey, but you know.


Is comply foam different?


----------



## SHAMuuu

Fox2twenty said:


> Is comply foam different?



Can't speak on the science, but they helped in terms of fit, which is the most important thing (I got scared by the KZ foam getting stuck in ear too! ) , and smooth out any ear piercing harshness on more than one iem. In my books, that is good science


----------



## Francisk

SHAMuuu said:


> Comply tips are magic. Hella pricey, but you know.


There's a price to pay for goodness


----------



## vladstef

The standard foam tips on aliexpress (many sellers have these, I think that they come from the same factory) are very good. I've never tried Comply but I had Shure foam tips (Olives). These from ali are slightly softer and more comfortable, but overall it's the same thing. I just can't see original Comply being any better, maybe in durability, but compare prices and it will put things into perspective. Ali foams also have no mesh of any kind.
I absolutely recommend foam tips on ZS5, in fact, I'd say they are necessary.


----------



## Fox2twenty (Sep 9, 2017)

Anyone tried these knock off Complys? These them @vladstef?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Also, has anyone tried these from Gearbest?


----------



## Slater (Sep 9, 2017)

.


----------



## vladstef

Fox2twenty said:


> Anyone tried these knock off Complys? These them @vladstef?



I am quite sure that they are. I ordered 2 pairs and they came in this small plastic box.
We need stop talking about tips, it's kinda off topic


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> I am quite sure that they are. I ordered 2 pairs and they came in this small plastic box.
> We need stop talking about tips, it's kinda off topic


Lol!
It's not off topic at all. Foam seems to be required to listen to the ZS5.


----------



## manjunath1915

I purchased einsear t2 after kz zs5 and i am using it more than kz zs5 
It has similar character except tight n less bass less soundstage but clearity n details r same i am falling in love with it but it is very much less hyped than others i dont kniw why
It has better bass n sound quality than rock zircon
Kz zse has great bass but soundstage n details r less compared to zs5 n fit is more comfortable


----------



## akroy

tell us more in detail please


----------



## AudioAw2015

Just received my ZS5 yesterday, messed around with it for a while and letting it burn in. It's an incredibly picky iem, from the source, to amping, to tip rolling but I guess trying to find out the right combination is half the fun.


----------



## Fox2twenty

AudioAw2015 said:


> Just received my ZS5 yesterday, messed around with it for a while and letting it burn in. It's an incredibly picky iem, from the source, to amping, to tip rolling but I guess trying to find out the right combination is half the fun.



I noticed the brain burn in happening already.. It's like I have to know what to listen for.


----------



## TJK81

manjunath1915 said:


> I purchased einsear t2 after kz zs5 and i am using it more than kz zs5
> It has similar character except tight n less bass less soundstage but clearity n details r same i am falling in love with it but it is very much less hyped than others i dont kniw why
> It has better bass n sound quality than rock zircon
> Kz zse has great bass but soundstage n details r less compared to zs5 n fit is more comfortable


T2's are great. So pity they don't fit my ears properly. Gave my wife. She is really satisfied. But she is enjoying with ZST's at the moment. Good earphone.


----------



## Slater

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Sure I can find and already have medium ones. But small?



Merry XMas: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/pre...-Memory-Foam-Sponge-ear-pads/32506698045.html


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

slaterlovesspam said:


> Merry XMas: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/pre...-Memory-Foam-Sponge-ear-pads/32506698045.html



Yeah, I know, but I'm cheap and I was looking for less expensive alternatives (possibly for free ).


----------



## harriss

i found seller posting KZ ZS6 on taobao
https://world.taobao.com/item/55816...eedab608&spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.675ba573y8sPLY


----------



## Slater

harriss said:


> i found seller posting KZ ZS6 on taobao
> https://world.taobao.com/item/558163274682.htm?fromSite=main&ali_refid=a3_430620_1006:1110508366:N:耳机入耳式+重低音+有线:98db9eb0e3700f90e14ff73beedab608&ali_trackid=1_98db9eb0e3700f90e14ff73beedab608&spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.675ba573y8sPLY



The new advertising slogan:

*"KZ ZS6 - Now with frickin' LASER BEAMS!"*


----------



## vladstef (Sep 9, 2017)

harriss said:


> i found seller posting KZ ZS6 on taobao
> https://world.taobao.com/item/558163274682.htm?fromSite=main&ali_refid=a3_430620_1006:1110508366:N:耳机入耳式+重低音+有线:98db9eb0e3700f90e14ff73beedab608&ali_trackid=1_98db9eb0e3700f90e14ff73beedab608&spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.675ba573y8sPLY



I just love it how they kept it real and professional by making the laser go through the mesh and not over it, it's the details that hook you. The laser did go through balanced armatures though...
Is this a sneak peak of what to expect with future KZ flagships? Now with laser technology which measures your ears and adjusts the sound accordingly, also, it's RGB.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> I just love it how they kept it real and professional by making the laser go through the mesh and not over it, it's the details that hook you. The laser did go through balanced armatures though...
> Is this a sneak peak of what to expect with future KZ flagships? Now with laser technology which measures your ears and adjusts the sound accordingly, also, it's RGB.



Customized ear canal EQ. CAN'T WAIT!!


----------



## Mellowship

Fox2twenty said:


> Anyone tried these knock off Complys? These them @vladstef?


Those are the good ones! Go ahead


----------



## Fox2twenty

Mellowship said:


> Those are the good ones! Go ahead


Awesomeness. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Saoshyant

As someone that dislikes foams due to their lack of longevity in my experience (hardening after awhile which detracts from my desire to use them) I have zero issues enjoying the ZS5 with silicon tips.  As I have zero treble sensitivity, perhaps I'm lucky in this respect as I've never once heard treble to where it's uncomfortable on anything I've ever owned.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I don't know if it's been reported already.. But the Zs6 is now on Gearbest for "pre-sale."


----------



## Fox2twenty

Saoshyant said:


> As someone that dislikes foams due to their lack of longevity in my experience (hardening after awhile which detracts from my desire to use them) I have zero issues enjoying the ZS5 with silicon tips.  As I have zero treble sensitivity, perhaps I'm lucky in this respect as I've never once heard treble to where it's uncomfortable on anything I've ever owned.



I don't mind the Treble as much as I want a little more bass. Do you have tips that improve bass response?


----------



## vladstef (Sep 9, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> I don't know if it's been reported already.. But the Zs6 is now on Gearbest for "pre-sale."



Yeah, it was. You can even use KZGB code I think. At one point with code you could get them for 25 euros or just above 30$.

E: Actual code is GBKZ


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> Yeah, it was. You can even use KZGB code I think. At one point with code you could get them for 25 euros or just above 30$.


Woah cool.. Going to attempt


----------



## Fox2twenty

Bummer.. No longer active




Fox2twenty said:


> Woah cool.. Going to attempt


----------



## Selenium

Just be patient. A couple weeks after people first start getting them you'll probably be able to snag yourself a pair for just $15 plus two bags of finger nail clippings.


----------



## Saoshyant

Fox2twenty said:


> I don't mind the Treble as much as I want a little more bass. Do you have tips that improve bass response?



Generally, as I have more fit issues with IEMs than anything else, I make my choices based on fit and comfort.  Fit on comply is decent, but for me cause discomfort sooner than a properly fitting silicon as well as lack longevity.  There are a lot of tips that no matter how hard I try to find the correct size I can't get a proper seal in one ear, so I tend to stick with proven tips for me, the ones I have the most luck with being a short bi-flange included with some Hifiman IEMs that seals well as disappears in my ears comfort-wise.  Because of this, I don't tend to be as explorative with tips as others, but then again I probably should in order to come across a more accessible tip as the ones I like most can't easily be bought separately, and I haven't come across a proper alternative on Aliexpress yet.  All in all, this is also why I tend to be a much heavier earbud user.

@Selenium Do you really want to drive up the cost of finger nail clippings like that?  I thought it was agreed on that we keep those inexpensive and easily accessible to all.


----------



## vladstef

Saoshyant said:


> Generally, as I have more fit issues with IEMs than anything else, I make my choices based on fit and comfort.  Fit on comply is decent, but for me cause discomfort sooner than a properly fitting silicon as well as lack longevity.  There are a lot of tips that no matter how hard I try to find the correct size I can't get a proper seal in one ear, so I tend to stick with proven tips for me, the ones I have the most luck with being a short bi-flange included with some Hifiman IEMs that seals well as disappears in my ears comfort-wise.  Because of this, I don't tend to be as explorative with tips as others, but then again I probably should in order to come across a more accessible tip as the ones I like most can't easily be bought separately, and I haven't come across a proper alternative on Aliexpress yet.  All in all, this is also why I tend to be a much heavier earbud user.
> 
> @Selenium Do you really want to drive up the cost of finger nail clippings like that?  I thought it was agreed on that we keep those inexpensive and easily accessible to all.



I think everyone has had issues with some tips, especially for certain IEM pairings. Next to foam tips, the best ones that I've tried are Sony MH1 tips and my absolute favorite are Final Type E tips. These Final's are very expensive and hard to get. I think that I am going to order Final E3000 just for the tips if not IEMs themselves. They are exactly like Sony's except Final's isolate better and are much softer. Too bad that ZS5s need foams and don't sound their best with anything else.


----------



## HungryPanda

Tips are the bane of my life, I seem to have different tips on most of my iems, there seems to be no logical reason whatsoever


----------



## loomisjohnson

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Yeah, I know, but I'm cheap and I was looking for less expensive alternatives (possibly for free ).


atoms, im pretty sure i have some small foams or other smalls lying around--pm me and ill send you some


----------



## loomisjohnson

Mellowship said:


> Those are the good ones! Go ahead


my local best buy was discounting the (genuine) round "audio pro" complys--still a rip off (at $5-6 a pair you can get a perfectly good kz with stock tips), but they are better than the chine knockoffs--more pourous and shape-able, as opposed to the more spongelike, less form-fitting wannabes.


----------



## loomisjohnson

AudioAw2015 said:


> Just received my ZS5 yesterday, messed around with it for a while and letting it burn in. It's an incredibly picky iem, from the source, to amping, to tip rolling but I guess trying to find out the right combination is half the fun.


my wife's not talking to me (thank god), so i got a much-appreciated opportunity to air out my zs5. my final conclusion is that they absolutely, positively need an amp to show their glorious best--unamped, even through my htc 10 they just don't sparkle on top or control the low end. i used a modest piece--the (quite decent) uamp--and genuinely bought into the hype. i still think, perhaps irrationally, that the ed9 is unrivaled for that indefinable "naturalness," but the zs5 otherwise reign supreme in kzdom


----------



## jant71

^Really like the little UAMP. Among best of the ultra-mini amps most of which have been just slight volume boosters. Not amazing but a real amp and versatile with the EQ profiles.


----------



## Adide

vladstef said:


> Too bad that ZS5s need foams and don't sound their best with anything else.



Why posting such definitive conclusions that are obviously biassed to your likings? People will assume that it's mandatory to buy foams in order for these to sound good, which is at best a gamble if not missinformation. There were numerous postings by experienced hifiers who stated that included starlines sounded best for them. Not to mention the other users of spinfits and so on.
Speaking from my experience, I have a small ear canal and even the smallest foam size 11mm wont fit in (compressed). If they would have made it 9 or 10mm I think those would have close the deal for me. As such, foams are crap for me as instead of the iem adhering to my concha it just sticks out awkwardly and sound goes down the drain.
What I'm asking is a little moderation and phrasing for those who are reading to get the right picture, I didn't want by any means to bash you, I like your posts but all this foams being mandatory talk is getting out of hand a bit.
PS: waiting for my ZS5 delivery now, currently a happy ZS3 user in search for better.
Cheers.


----------



## groucho69

Selenium said:


> Just be patient. A couple weeks after people first start getting them you'll probably be able to snag yourself a pair for just $15 plus two bags of finger nail clippings.



Gotta love a free bonus!


----------



## vladstef (Sep 9, 2017)

Adide said:


> Why posting such definitive conclusions that are obviously biassed to your likings? People will assume that it's mandatory to buy foams in order for these to sound good, which is at best a gamble if not missinformation. There were numerous postings by experienced hifiers who stated that included starlines sounded best for them. Not to mention the other users of spinfits and so on.
> Speaking from my experience, I have a small ear canal and even the smallest foam size 11mm wont fit in (compressed). If they would have made it 9 or 10mm I think those would have close the deal for me. As such, foams are crap for me as instead of the iem adhering to my concha it just sticks out awkwardly and sound goes down the drain.
> What I'm asking is a little moderation and phrasing for those who are reading to get the right picture, I didn't want by any means to bash you, I like your posts but all this foams being mandatory talk is getting out of hand a bit.
> PS: waiting for my ZS5 delivery now, currently a happy ZS3 user in search for better.
> Cheers.



Point taken, wording is important. Obviously, this is just my opinion and should be taken as such. For anything online, if you wish to find proper information, you need to do your research and not take in the first information as a given truth. So, I do think that ZS5 can't sound their best without foam tips and I've even expressed some faults with sound even with foam tips.
Foams can block the nozzle if your ear canals bend earlier than most, and in that case, you only need to cut off the very end of the foams and this will stop. Slowly cut away piece by piece, you probably wouldn't need to cut it all the way to the hard tube that these tips have.


----------



## Mellowship

Fox2twenty said:


> I don't mind the Treble as much as I want a little more bass. Do you have tips that improve bass response?



The stock KZ starline tips, or the older transparent starlines are said to increase bass response, but the most bassy of all must be the Sony hybrids, mainly due to the thick dense silicone and the narrow bore.


----------



## groucho69

loomisjohnson said:


> my wife's not talking to me (thank god), so i got a much-appreciated opportunity to air out my zs5. my final conclusion is that they absolutely, positively need an amp to show their glorious best--unamped, even through my htc 10 they just don't sparkle on top or control the low end. i used a modest piece--the (quite decent) uamp--and genuinely bought into the hype. i still think, perhaps irrationally, that the ed9 is unrivaled for that indefinable "naturalness," but the zs5 otherwise reign supreme in kzdom



Like my avatar says, glorious.


----------



## Adide

vladstef said:


> Slowly cut away piece by piece, you probably wouldn't need to cut it all the way to the hard tube that these tips have.



I've read this before thanks for the heads up, however I'm skeptical of the outcome as the the tip gets narrower towards the tip so by cutting narrower part the tip will only widen and don't think it will insert at all. I'll try this when/if I'll feel bored to death and got nothing better to do.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Mellowship said:


> The stock KZ starline tips, or the older transparent starlines are said to increase bass response, but the most bassy of all must be the Sony hybrids, mainly due to the thick dense silicone and the narrow bore.


I was just looking at hybrids, good idea.


----------



## vector84

Fox2twenty said:


> Bummer.. No longer active


I think he meant GBKZ (for 16% off)


----------



## Mellowship

Just got my 2nd KZ ZS5 on the mail, the gray ones, from GB. Guess they still have the single BA in the nozzle.


----------



## vladstef

vector84 said:


> I think he meant GBKZ (for 16% off)



Oh, good thing that nobody got burnt because of me, I will correct my post.


----------



## AudioAw2015

Mellowship said:


> Just got my 2nd KZ ZS5 on the mail, the gray ones, from GB. Guess they still have the single BA in the nozzle.



I received the grey ones as well even though I ordered the blue. Are there any difference in sound between them?


----------



## Mellowship

AudioAw2015 said:


> I received the grey ones as well even though I ordered the blue. Are there any difference in sound between them?



The new ones seem to be a little bit harsher on the treble... but they are new, right out of the box.


----------



## Adide

AudioAw2015 said:


> I received the grey ones as well even though I ordered the blue. Are there any difference in sound between them?



You'll feel wiser instead of blue.


----------



## Holypal

fuzun said:


>




In my opinion, the inside looks very good. Not so much glue.  

Also the screws are not fake.


----------



## fuzun

Holypal said:


> In my opinion, the inside looks very good. Not so much glue.
> 
> Also the screws are not fake.


How come? It looks clear to me that 1 out of 3 screw is fake. Elaborate please.


----------



## vladstef

fuzun said:


> How come? It looks clear to me that 1 out of 3 screw is fake. Elaborate please.



People were worried that none of the screws were functional. The concern was justified, worse abominations have happened in the world. We shouldn't care about that one screw being used to complete the design (*cough*  Campfire Andromeda *cough*).
I actually don't understand KZ, they had to design ZS5 and ZS6 from scratch anyways, no idea why they wanted to copy CA, they are not really trying to fool anyone by selling fake Campfire IEMs.


----------



## CYoung234

Adide said:


> Why posting such definitive conclusions that are obviously biassed to your likings? People will assume that it's mandatory to buy foams in order for these to sound good, which is at best a gamble if not missinformation. There were numerous postings by experienced hifiers who stated that included starlines sounded best for them. Not to mention the other users of spinfits and so on.
> Speaking from my experience, I have a small ear canal and even the smallest foam size 11mm wont fit in (compressed). If they would have made it 9 or 10mm I think those would have close the deal for me. As such, foams are crap for me as instead of the iem adhering to my concha it just sticks out awkwardly and sound goes down the drain.
> What I'm asking is a little moderation and phrasing for those who are reading to get the right picture, I didn't want by any means to bash you, I like your posts but all this foams being mandatory talk is getting out of hand a bit.
> PS: waiting for my ZS5 delivery now, currently a happy ZS3 user in search for better.
> Cheers.



Hear hear. I find for me that the stock starlines work pretty well. I did not like comply type foams as well. But on my setup, I prefer the Symbios W. So, my conclusion is that we are listening for different things. For me, the ZS5 can get a touch zippy on the high end, but not really sibilant. Of course, I am 63 years old with a bit of tinitus, si if you can hear very high frequencies, you might find them sibilant...


----------



## Fox2twenty

CYoung234 said:


> Hear hear. I find for me that the stock starlines work pretty well. I did not like comply type foams as well. But on my setup, I prefer the Symbios W. So, my conclusion is that we are listening for different things. For me, the ZS5 can get a touch zippy on the high end, but not really sibilant. Of course, I am 63 years old with a bit of tinitus, si if you can hear very high frequencies, you might find them sibilant...



That's interesting.. I have tinnitus and I don't really mind hot Treble.. I think maybe I like the tinnitus to be over powered.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I don't know if I already posted about this - but the ZS5 is made for Lindsey Stirling.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Fox2twenty said:


> Also, has anyone tried these from Gearbest?



Yeah I did, the largest 5MM ones does tame the harsh peaks, 4MM ones are a little small for my ears.
Btw, I ordered these 5MM Memory foam tips https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_631664.html to try them on KZ ZST/ZS5s.


----------



## rendyG (Sep 10, 2017)

Yesss, can´t wait to get the ES3


----------



## vector84 (Sep 10, 2017)

ES3 showed up...

First impressions: Bass!  It doesn't strike me as particularly bloated or bleeding too badly... there's just a mountain of it.  Oddly though despite a mountain of bass, they don't strike me as particularly warm overall otherwise.  Mids seem a bit cleaner than the ZS5(v1).  Highs don't seem particularly recessed but they don't strike me as having quite the same sparkle as the ZS5(v1).

Mind you my experience with basshead type IEMs is nearly non-existent so... take with a grain of salt? or some such.


A few other stray thoughts:

The nozzle appears to be packed as per Viber's ZS5 mod - wonder if that contributes to the cleaner mids?

Fit is weird for me... had to mess with tip depth for quite a while to get a fit I really liked...

They seem quite a bit less source picky than the ZS5(v1) — acceptable results across everything I've tried them on so far.

Something's wrong with the vent on one side of mine - the DD vents appear to be covered by some sort of semi-permeable seal, but on one side it's covered in too much glue, or something.  This causes that side to produce quite a bit of additional bass as well as prominent driver flex.  Taping the other side levels things off (even more mountains of bass...), but I'm thinking I should perhaps punch a small hole in the clogged one instead, or some such.  Gotta love that KZ glue fetish.


----------



## Brooko

[Mod Comment]

Gentle reminder.  There is no "best tip" for an IEM.  There might be a best tip for you, and there might be a tip you prefer - so when talking about tip choices it might be better to add "for my preference" when you are describing your own personal tip choices.

Also - just because someone has different preferences, there is no need to talk down to people.  And especially if you are a more experienced Head-Fier - you should know better the sort of behaviour we expect on this forum.

I've just removed a couple of posts.  Please remember the first "rule of thumb" in the Posting Guidelines - "be excellent to each other"

Thanks


----------



## -sandro-

TJK81 said:


> T2's are great. So pity they don't fit my ears properly. Gave my wife. She is really satisfied. But she is enjoying with ZST's at the moment. Good earphone.



Even more tempted to get the einsear t2, what is the sound signature for you guys?


----------



## MAntunes

I've owned the Tennmak Crazy Cello for a while and I think it's time for an upgrade and I will probably get some KZ (ZS5, ZS6, ZSR or another) in the near future.

There are some things I wanted to ask you:
 - Is the KZ upgrade cable worth the money?
 - Is the KZ Bluetooth cable any good? I usualy listen to music directly from my PC or cellphone (Lumia 950) and from my Shanling M1.
 - Has anyone heard the ZS6?


----------



## Mellowship

My KZ inventory. And I think there are some still missing. I definitely have the disease. 
For my taste, the foam tips are the best. Except the hds1, one of the es9 and the ZSE, all have t400 large, and the ATE ATR medium. The ED7 has t200 large. 
One of the main advantages of foam tips is the relatively large bore, mainly on the t400. The medium sized has the largest bore, which I found is the best with the ATE.
As for my favourites of the bunch, I have to choose the ZS5, the infamous IE80, the ATE and the ZSE.


----------



## smsmasters

How did you get the ES3 @ 5.99 USD? I've been checking it daily at 9:00 UTC and I don't see this price.


----------



## Mellowship

MAntunes said:


> I've owned the Tennmak Crazy Cello for a while and I think it's time for an upgrade and I will probably get some KZ (ZS5, ZS6, ZSR or another) in the near future.
> 
> There are some things I wanted to ask you:
> - Is the KZ upgrade cable worth the money?
> ...



- the upgrade cable is a great option for looks and, most importantly, because it is not rubbery at all, thus preventing microphonic noise and tangling. 
- if you have the need for mobility and the cables get in your way, Bluetooth might be an option. Don't forget it's the Bluetooth dongle that will be powering the earphones, so don't expect a linear relation between what you can experience with a given cabled source and with the Bluetooth with a given earphone. The KZ BT cable has mixed reviews and you can find some impressions in this thread.
-at this time all of us have heard ABOUT the ZS6, but the first ones are still on the way on the slow boat from China.


----------



## Viber

smsmasters said:


> How did you get the ES3 @ 5.99 USD? I've been checking it daily at 9:00 UTC and I don't see this price.



You need to actually check out and reach the payment page in order to see the price.
Also use this clock:
https://time.is/UTC


----------



## rendyG

smsmasters said:


> How did you get the ES3 @ 5.99 USD? I've been checking it daily at 9:00 UTC and I don't see this price.



Exactly, you need to checkout just a second after 9:00 UTC, you wont see the lower price until you checkout. But you still need to pay fast, because the first 30 units will be sold in about 30 seconds.. I would recommend you to use paypal so you dont need to fill in your adress thus waste valuable seconds  
Good luck, tomorrow is the last chance to get ES3 this cheap


----------



## Keller2

smsmasters said:


> How did you get the ES3 @ 5.99 USD? I've been checking it daily at 9:00 UTC and I don't see this price.


Today they disappeared in around 10 seconds. 

There was a single massive order of 20 ES3s and then they were gone.


----------



## MAntunes

Mellowship said:


> - the upgrade cable is a great option for looks and, most importantly, because it is not rubbery at all, thus preventing microphonic noise and tangling.
> - if you have the need for mobility and the cables get in your way, Bluetooth might be an option. Don't forget it's the Bluetooth dongle that will be powering the earphones, so don't expect a linear relation between what you can experience with a given cabled source and with the Bluetooth with a given earphone. The KZ BT cable has mixed reviews and you can find some impressions in this thread.
> -at this time all of us have heard ABOUT the ZS6, but the first ones are still on the way on the slow boat from China.



So you are saying that the upgrade cable is almost a must have, right? Does it also have memory wire?
Regarding the ZS6 I was asking if anyone tried them already.


----------



## VinceHill24

I guess some of those retailers or resellers ordered in bulk for business purposes. Gearbest price are sometimes even much lower than KZ's wholesale price as i recalled KZ once told me they had price control for sellers on platform like AE and Taobao whilst Gearbest is by itself a separate standalone platform with very big volume of order and they're willing to sell at a lost just for the sake of marketing and branding. So if you want guaranteed low price, Gearbest will always be the place.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 10, 2017)

VinceHill24 said:


> I guess some of those retailers or resellers ordered in bulk for business purposes. Gearbest price are sometimes even much lower than KZ's wholesale price as i recalled KZ once told me they had price control for sellers on platform like AE and Taobao whilst Gearbest is by itself a separate standalone platform with very big volume of order and they're willing to sell at a lost just for the sake of marketing and branding. So if you want guaranteed low price, Gearbest will always be the place.


That explains why Gearbest started their pre-order of ZS6 at $35.32 with additional silver cable which last for a day or two and now it's going for $45.50 without the silver cable.


----------



## goodvibes

vladstef said:


> People were worried that none of the screws were functional. The concern was justified, worse abominations have happened in the world. We shouldn't care about that one screw being used to complete the design (*cough*  Campfire Andromeda *cough*).
> I actually don't understand KZ, they had to design ZS5 and ZS6 from scratch anyways, no idea why they wanted to copy CA, they are not really trying to fool anyone by selling fake Campfire IEMs.


They are not for me but that in itself would prevent me from buying them. Personal bias against riding coattails. Please don't argue that that's not what this is. A buyer may not get confused but the wearer might get some Campfire street cred and it certainly isn't happenchance. It's a very unique shape and something Campfire did to set themselves apart. Makes the KZ design that much more disappointing to me.


----------



## vladstef

goodvibes said:


> They are not for me but that in itself would prevent me from buying them. Personal bias against riding coattails. Please don't argue that that's not what this is. A buyer may not get confused but the wearer might get some Campfire street cred and it certainly isn't happenchance. It's a very unique shape and something Campfire did to set themselves apart. Makes the KZ design that much more disappointing to me.



What you are saying is that people would potentially buy ZS6 over something else just because others might mistake it for the real deal CA? I never thought of it this way but it does look like a very real explanation to my original confusion about the reason for this copied design. 
Whatever the reason is, they made a mistake imho. Nothing is morally correct in this world especially if you dig deeper, but this direct violation is just shameful. We should give them credit for the sound at amazing price point, but I am boycotting ZS6 as well. Now that I think about it, I feel a slightly bitter taste of regret knowing that I did purchase ZS5.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 10, 2017)

And things won't get better until we act accordingly. It's a personal thing and I understand why another may feel differently but I'm sure Campfire worked quite some time on this design to differentiate themselves and be recognizably different as 2nd tier marketing... only to have it stolen and there can be no debate that it is stolen. There are many other IEMs that look like each other because of the format. Campfire made a concerted effort to stand apart while remaining functional only to have this happen. It's disconcerting and takes the shine off of what may otherwise be a VG value. I often buy cheap under $50 phones just to see what's up, gave a pair to another headfier the other day, but these will definitely not be one of them.


Rant over. Carry on.


----------



## Hitesh

Hey guys
So I haven't checked the last 150 pages or so. Is ZSE still the best option under $10? Anything better (even if from some other company)?


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> You need to actually check out and reach the payment page in order to see the price.
> Also use this clock:
> https://time.is/UTC



Nice, didn't know about that site.

Also, on cell phones, if you have a "World Time" type app, you can use any of the following cities for a UTC reference: Dakar, Timbuktu, Lome, Abidjan, Accra, Jamestown, Reykjavik

Then you can just use the app to set alarms, watch for a specific UTC time, etc.


----------



## HungryPanda

Did Mee electronics rip off Shure or ACS, Fiio F9 looks very like UiiSii US80. Did anyone patent their shape?


----------



## vector84

goodvibes said:


> They are not for me but that in itself would prevent me from buying them. Personal bias against riding coattails. Please don't argue that that's not what this is. A buyer may not get confused but the wearer might get some Campfire street cred and it certainly isn't happenchance. It's a very unique shape and something Campfire did to set themselves apart. Makes the KZ design that much more disappointing to me.





goodvibes said:


> And things won't get better until we act accordingly. It's a personal thing and I understand why another may feel differently but I'm sure Campfire worked quite some time on this design to differentiate themselves and be recognizably different as 2nd tier marketing... only to have it stolen and there can be no debate that it is stolen. There are many other IEMs that look like each other because of the format. Campfire made a concerted effort to stand apart while remaining functional only to have this happen. It's disconcerting and takes the shine off of what may otherwise be a VG value. I often buy cheap under $50 phones just to see what's up, gave a pair to another headfier the other day, but these will definitely not be one of them.
> 
> 
> Rant over. Carry on.


Not to stand in the way of a good rant but... (and this has been said before...)

I have a hard time believing you're going to be fooling anyone worth fooling - anyone that knows what an Andromeda is (or a Campfire in general...) is going to spot a ZS5/ZS6 instantly as what it is... So, who exactly are you targeting as the unscrupulous buyer intent on trickery?  Because if anything, it's more like a mass advertisement for Campfire... imitation is the greatest form of flattery, etc, etc...

Maybe we could let Campfire fight their own battles?
They're big boys, after all... and they seem pretty amused - after all, they picked KZ colors in two-tone for the Polaris...


----------



## Slater (Sep 10, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Not to stand in the way of a good rant but... (and this has been said before...)
> 
> I have a hard time believing you're going to be fooling anyone worth fooling - anyone that knows what an Andromeda is (or a Campfire in general...) is going to spot a ZS5/ZS6 instantly as what it is... So, who exactly are you targeting as the unscrupulous buyer intent on trickery?  Because if anything, it's more like a mass advertisement for Campfire... imitation is the greatest form of flattery, etc, etc...
> 
> ...



Agreed. I don't think anyone is shallow enough to buy the ZSx just to walk around with the express intent to make people think they are wearing Campfires. I mean, c'mon.

People buy the ZSx because it's an ultra-budget friendly IEM with great sound for the price range. I could care less what it looks like - all I care about is how it sounds.

I'll put a sticker on mine that says "NOT Campfire" if that would make sure no one in the general public gets confused. Better?

I'm sorry all of the Campfire fans are upset by this. I'm sure the genuines are on a whole other level. Just be flattered and enjoy the music.


----------



## maxxevv

Hitesh said:


> Hey guys
> So I haven't checked the last 150 pages or so. Is ZSE still the best option under $10? Anything better (even if from some other company)?



Its really dependent on what you're looking for / need in an earphone. 

If you listen to predominantly energetic tracks that work with clean bass and not require a very detailed rendering,  the ZSE's are wonderful. They sound really very good with U2 and REM and many vocals such Diana Krall and Cyndi Lauper.  
But they are not so great with classical tracks that have very complex instrumentation lineups or delicate nuances. 

Also they are great if you listen to them while stationary. Things fall apart if you move apart once you move about with them due to the really bad microphonics of the cables. 

If you catch Gearbest's sale, the ES3 at its current $9.99 sale price might be a value preposition. At least seasoned reviewers like Vidal rate them rather highly.


----------



## RyanM

I often will wonder how the sound is affected by the housing. I'm no audio engineer, but I would think that there's quite a bit to the shape of the housing, in terms of the effect on the sound. I think someone has mentioned this already (maybe somewhere in this giant thread) but I don't understand the thought of enjoying great bang for your buck but in the same breath being concerned about lack of originality in the housing. It's stand to reason that putting an emphasis on r&d in original housing will only inflate the price. Don't we all benefit from this imitation with that in mind? Moreover, no one seems to care about companies constantly using Sennheiser shells in the earbud community - it's almost looked upon as a type of salutation to a company that garners tremendous respect. I'm not sure I understand what's different about what KZ does?


----------



## vladstef

Haha, how could I even think that Polaris' colors were a coincidence (I didn't even think that they cared/knew about KZ ZS5). Campfire's got it, they are on top of their game. Even the black plastic nozzle, oh lord.


----------



## Fox2twenty

#CampfireGate


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> #CampfireGate


So far I like my ZS5 just fine.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 10, 2017)

For the price, ZS5 is pretty hard to beat. The 2nd revision of the ZST comes in pretty close. I'll have to wait for the ZS6 and see if it follows suit.


----------



## Slater

Francisk said:


> For the price, ZS5 is pretty hard to beat. The 2nd revision of the ZST comes in pretty close. I'll have to wait for the ZS6 and see if it follows suit.



Don't forget they are releasing a ZS3 hybrid soon too. I love the ZS3 shell - so comfy and sleek looking!


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't forget they are releasing a ZS3 hybrid soon too. I love the ZS3 shell - so comfy and sleek looking!


Very cool


----------



## Francisk

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't forget they are releasing a ZS3 hybrid soon too. I love the ZS3 shell - so comfy and sleek looking!


Are you referring to the ES3? I've ordered it but it hasn't arrived. I'm looking forward to listen to it.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Francisk said:


> Are you referring to the ES3? I've ordered it but it hasn't arrived. I'm looking forward to listen to it.


I got mine with the zs5 on Friday... Haven't moved in from the zs5 yet though..


----------



## vector84

Francisk said:


> Are you referring to the ES3? I've ordered it but it hasn't arrived. I'm looking forward to listen to it.


The ES3 is in a generic looking shell that's more similar to say the ZST/ED12

The ZS3 has a very different shell.


----------



## mono-type

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't forget they are releasing a ZS3 hybrid soon too. I love the ZS3 shell - so comfy and sleek looking!


Nice to know they are releasing those ZS3 hybrids soon, and I'll definitely look forward to it. Also, we're in the same boat regarding ZS3's shell design. It's definitely comfortable, it's almost like the IEM's weren't worn at your ears at all.


----------



## Keller2 (Sep 10, 2017)

mono-type said:


> Nice to know they are releasing those ZS3 hybrids soon, and I'll definitely look forward to it. Also, we're in the same boat regarding ZS3's shell design. It's definitely comfortable, it's almost like the IEM's weren't worn at your ears at all.


I would absolutely love an aluminum shell on those aswell. ZS5/ZST sound in a ZS3 Metal Shell is like my idea of an endgame IEM made by KZ.


----------



## vector84

Fair warning if anyone is thinking about messing with the ES3:

That DD vent is *really* fickle, probably shouldn't mess with it in destructive ways unless you feel like spending a while retuning them.


Just finished messing around with them a bit:

Punched a hole in the right side vent (sealed side) and got about a 6-8dB drop in bass response - I should've stopped here because they were relatively decently matched like this but that's not my style and I wanted to fine tune things, so off we went to some mess with some bad ideas.

Punched a hole in the left side vent (properly vented side) - got a 20+ dB drop in bass response.

Proceeded to play with tape and a needle to get just the right size vent hole to match them, which was a fun process.


----------



## -sandro-

ZS3 is not balanced/neutral right?


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't forget they are releasing a ZS3 hybrid soon too. I love the ZS3 shell - so comfy and sleek looking!


Please someone notify me through PM about that ZS3 hybrid release... I`m busy with my kid and work and house and... and... and... LOL.

Also, noticed that there is new revision of ZS5 ? With 2x BA in nozzle? If so, is the new version better? Worth getting if I already have ZS5?
If so, where to buy new version for sure?

thnx in advance!


----------



## Mellowship

MAntunes said:


> So you are saying that the upgrade cable is almost a must have, right? Does it also have memory wire?
> Regarding the ZS6 I was asking if anyone tried them already.


Yes, yes, no.

Regarding the memory wire, most users end up chopping it.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 10, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Agreed. I don't think anyone is shallow enough to buy the ZSx just to walk around with the express intent to make people think they are wearing Campfires. I mean, c'mon.
> 
> People buy the ZSx because it's an ultra-budget friendly IEM with great sound for the price range. I could care less what it looks like - all I care about is how it sounds.
> 
> ...


Still takes away from the money they spent to make something unique as a way of recognition. There are only so many shapes you can make these things so it's normal for many to look alike. Campfire found a unique way to break this mold and were very obviously hijacked. Not at all the same thing as similarity of others. Other than color, it's as similar as a knockoff. Finding excuses for a deliberate act like this is simply rationalization.


----------



## Mellowship

-sandro- said:


> ZS3 is not balanced/neutral right?


More on the bass side of things, and somewhat source-dependant. If amped, they are fine.


----------



## Mellowship

Keller2 said:


> I would absolutely love an aluminum shell on those aswell. ZS5/ZST sound in a ZS3 Metal Shell is like my idea of an endgame IEM made by KZ.


It would be great (although I have some problems fitting the ZS3 in my ears... Been finding ZS5 to be more to my liking).


----------



## Keller2 (Sep 10, 2017)

goodvibes said:


> Still takes away from the money they spent to make something unique as a way of recognition. There are only so many shapes you can make these things so it's normal for many to look alike. Campfire found a unique way to break this mold and were very obviously hijacked. Not at all the same thing as similarity of others. Other than color, it's as similar as a knockoff. Finding excuses for a deliberate act like this is simply rationalization.


Let's put it this way:

We don't care that campfire exists.
Their prices, just like their naming scheme, are astronomical.
We just appreciate that KZ has taken some Ques from a premium manufacturer to make their own products better.
Nobody who uses a KZ ZS5 as a daily driver considers any campfire IEM an option, nevermind the Andromeda itself.

And why is it the case that nobody minds how say, superlux makes stuff that looks like Sennheiser and AKG, or how takstar copied the beyerdynamic look?
These are not products that are in direct competition. How is KZ's ripoff negatively impacting Campfire Audio?


It seems like a case of campfire audio owners being upset that their unique thing they paid $500 has been copied, no, not even copied, more like imitiated, rather than KZ being actually damaging to Campfire.


----------



## Mellowship

Been burning my new pair of ZS5 with the Heroes del Silencio live algum "Para Siempre". The drummer of this epic old Spanish hard rock band, Pedro Andreu, goes mad at the cymbals playing live, which makes this album more appropriate for darker earphones. Well, after one hour or so, no signs of fatigue. The treble keeps high but its quality and timbre gives them a natural sound signature that soothes the brain...


----------



## Vidal

The fact that KZ can copy the look/materials of the Andromeda and sell it for less than $40 makes you just wonder how expensive the Campfire drivers are (or how much their profit margin is).

Still haven't ordered the ZS6 for once I'm not going to be an early adopter


----------



## Fox2twenty

Mellowship said:


> Been burning my new pair of ZS5 with the Heroes del Silencio live algum "Para Siempre". The drummer of this epic old Spanish hard rock band, Pedro Andreu, goes mad at the cymbals playing live, which makes this album more appropriate for darker earphones. Well, after one hour or so, no signs of fatigue. The treble keeps high but its quality and timbre gives them a natural sound signature that soothes the brain...



I agree.. Lots of Treble in a good way....


----------



## Slater (Sep 10, 2017)

Francisk said:


> Are you referring to the ES3? I've ordered it but it hasn't arrived. I'm looking forward to listen to it.



No, the ZS3. I will find the posts that talk about it and update this post with links.

_Updated with links:_

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1362#post-13688398
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1354#post-13685298


----------



## groucho69

Keller2 said:


> Let's put it this way:
> 
> We don't care that campfire exists.
> Their prices, just like their naming scheme, are astronomical.
> ...



Apparently the new iPhone "borrows" a lot from Samsung. I doubt that will deter those who want one.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Please someone notify me through PM about that ZS3 hybrid release... I`m busy with my kid and work and house and... and... and... LOL.
> 
> Also, noticed that there is new revision of ZS5 ? With 2x BA in nozzle? If so, is the new version better? Worth getting if I already have ZS5?
> If so, where to buy new version for sure?
> ...



Nice to hear from you Coil. I'll be happy to shoot you a PM if/when the ZS3 hybrid is out.

You are correct - the ZS5 rev2 does have 2xBA, but very few people have it so far. The jury is still kind of out if it's 'better' than the v1. Plus there's no reliable place to get it (and be guaranteed the v2). A few people got theirs from Gearbest orders recently, but Gearbest themselves deny having the latest version when someone asked them about it directly. So ordering from Gearbest is a 50/50 crap shoot of getting v1 or v2 at this time.

Now all of the talk is about the ZS6 (metal shelled, open-backed IEM similar to the ZS5). It's not shipping until around the end of the month though, so no one actually has it yet that can comment on it.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 10, 2017)

Keller2 said:


> Let's put it this way:
> 
> We don't care that campfire exists.
> Their prices, just like their naming scheme, are astronomical.
> ...


It's a simple right from wrong issue. I never said anyone in this thread bought them to pretend they were campfires. I also don't care if someone else chooses to buy a knockoff if he likes the sound for what he pays. To each his own but not many reviews don't comment on the similarity. That isn't coincidence. Rationalize it any way you want but it's simply wrong. If you can't see that, I can't help you. I haven't started nor plan to start a boycott, LOL. I like it so it's all good all the time is common internet fanboy speak. You can like a product, choose to buy it but still recognize it a knocked off design. Same with comparing it with false equivalences to products that develop a natural shape. No judgement against anyone that bought them. It's commentary that's aimed strictly at the maker and will stop when no longer responded to.


----------



## Fox2twenty

goodvibes said:


> It's a simple right from wrong issue. I never said anyone in this thread bought them to pretend they were campfires. I also don't care if someone else chooses to buy a knockoff if he likes the sound for what he pays. To each his own but not many reviews don't comment on the similarity. That isn't coincidence. Rationalize it any way you want but it's simply wrong. If you can't see that, I can't help you. I haven't started nor plan to start a boycott, LOL. The I like it so it's all good all the time is common internet fanboy speak. You can like a product, choose to buy it but still recognize it a knocked off design. Same with false equivalences to products that develop a natural shape. No judgement against anyone that bought them. It's commentary that's aimed strictly at the maker and will stop when no longer responded to.



Lol. O. My.


Are you trying to say there is a problem with two companies making iems? Maybe only Taco Bell should be allowed to make tacos? Boycott Del Taco! #CampfireGate


----------



## Viber

Use code: 
*h9rzm9b9*

To get 16% off on KZ earphones @ Gearbest.com. (doesnt work on flash deals models).

Was actually looking for mech keyboards there and bumped into it.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

the lowest price of KZ ZS6 the moment is in Banggood.


----------



## goodvibes

WOW. So disappointing. I'm out. Have at it.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

Link KZ ZS6 USD $31.99 ~ $32.99 on Banggood: https://www.banggood.com/KZ-ZS6-HiF...ynamic-Driver-Hybrid-Headphone-p-1197912.html


----------



## Francisk

vector84 said:


> The ES3 is in a generic looking shell that's more similar to say the ZST/ED12
> 
> The ZS3 has a very different shell.


Thanks for the update vector84, looks like I missed out on the hybrid ZS3.


----------



## Keller2

goodvibes said:


> It's a simple right from wrong issue. I never said anyone in this thread bought them to pretend they were campfires. I also don't care if someone else chooses to buy a knockoff if he likes the sound for what he pays. To each his own but not many reviews don't comment on the similarity. That isn't coincidence. Rationalize it any way you want but it's simply wrong. If you can't see that, I can't help you. I haven't started nor plan to start a boycott, LOL. I like it so it's all good all the time is common internet fanboy speak. You can like a product, choose to buy it but still recognize it a knocked off design. Same with comparing it with false equivalences to products that develop a natural shape. No judgement against anyone that bought them. It's commentary that's aimed strictly at the maker and will stop when no longer responded to.



Sure, it's a ripoff. You can see it from miles away. But it's got it's own merits.
The KZ is inferior in terms of quality, it only rips on the design and 'vibe' the Campfire IEMs are going for.

It just happens that it's a really striking / recognizable design.
It's not a straight up copy doing the same thing like you would find with iPhone IEMs for example.
This seems to be a trend where people start condemning this behaviour, but only when KZ rips off recognizable designs.

I don't understand what the issue with copying a design like this really is - as kz has done it many times before and we've had no outcry like this (see ATE, ZS3, ZST, ED12, etc)
It's not making money off the other guys' brand. It's only using the design to inspire an effect of "I want this, it looks cool".
However it's not pretending to be the original and you're knowingly getting an inferior product that still has it's own merits.
And it's in an entirely different league.

The only issue you could argue here is that KZ took the lazy route and didn't invest in making a striking design in house and repackaged somebody else's ideas.
But that's an unreasonable argument as the KZ target IEM costs $30 and less, there would be a hard time to recoup design costs.
And even if they came out with a really good design - it doesnt necessarily mean it'll sell well..

Also i'd argue that this pushes the market forward... Just take a look at what monoprice is doing..


----------



## Fox2twenty

HUGO SILVA said:


> Link KZ ZS6 USD $31.99 ~ $32.99 on Banggood: https://www.banggood.com/KZ-ZS6-HiF...ynamic-Driver-Hybrid-Headphone-p-1197912.html


Good share. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Good share. Thanks for the tip.


Thanks to @HUGO SILVA I now have a Banggood account.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 12, 2017)

Well inspired by the ES3 setup (and by testing the process on a broken set...) I decided to stop waiting for screens to show up and just went ahead and modded a pair of ZS5(v1)s.

Initial impressions: Mids seem a lot cleaner - clearer vocals, cymbals slightly recessed, more natural sounding strings - less "ethereal" / "holographic" sounding to me, so if you really love that effect, that might be a con.  Personally, I'm extremely happy with the results so far.

EDIT: seems I made some changes to the screen placement that were contributed to perceived changes


----------



## snip3r77

Fox2twenty said:


> Good share. Thanks for the tip.


I'd still wait for GB flash price


----------



## VinceHill24

Seems like there was intense argument few pages back. Gave me a feeling that KZ followers is a cult not to be messed with lol. I think there's no absolute right or wrong given that the world we live in people with money and powers are constantly exploiting others with something called patent. Inequalities are getting out of control in this overpopulated Earth and i believe many who barely earns enough or those from the 3rd world country will find KZ a safe haven for them to at least enjoy music. A pair of CA would probably feed them and their family for a year or so


----------



## Mellowship

VinceHill24 said:


> Seems like there was intense argument few pages back. Gave me a feeling that KZ followers is a cult not to be messed with lol. I think there's no absolute right or wrong given that the world we live in people with money and powers are constantly exploiting others with something called patent. Inequalities are getting out of control in this overpopulated Earth and i believe many who barely earns enough or those from the 3rd world country will find KZ a safe haven for them to at least enjoy music. A pair of CA would probably feed them and their family for a year or so


Patents can be a good thing if they are used to grant the rights of something 100% original and innovative to the people who spent their time and investment to develop it, regarding the patents will translate that investment into something good for the community, the workers and the society. On the other hand, there are companies that use patents only with profit in mind, disregarding societal benefits and ethical questions. It reminds me of Monster Cable, finding rather standard aspects of cables and connectors that had never been patented, to fill patents for it and sue small companies (only those and not the big fish) for using the same standard principles. And it was really standard things such as the look of a RCA plug. Such companies ate called "patent trolls".


----------



## TJK81 (Sep 11, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't forget they are releasing a ZS3 hybrid soon too. I love the ZS3 shell - so comfy and sleek looking!


You are right. ZS3 together with QKZ DM300 are unbeatable in comfort of using. For my ears at least. QKZ's are little darker in a term of the sound signature. I like both for easier listening music (pop, rap, in some cases even in rock music...).


----------



## vector84

Mellowship said:


> Patents can be a good thing if they are used to grant the rights of something 100% original and innovative to the people who spent their time and investment to develop it, regarding the patents will translate that investment into something good for the community, the workers and the society. On the other hand, there are companies that use patents only with profit in mind, disregarding societal benefits and ethical questions. It reminds me of Monster Cable, finding rather standard aspects of cables and connectors that had never been patented, to fill patents for it and sue small companies (only those and not the big fish) for using the same standard principles. And it was really standard things such as the look of a RCA plug. Such companies ate called "patent trolls".


Patent trolls aren't even the worst thing going on with patents anymore... attempting to fix that problem has brought about an even worse scenario where the new game is being a big enough fish to just outright get patents revoked so you can legally steal ideas from anyone not big enough to defend themselves, thus completely defeating the purpose of the entire patent system. 

But while budget minded threads are generally far more likely to highlight social inequalities, political issues, etc, etc... this line of commentary feels pretty digressive and even as I type this, I can't help but wonder if I should bother to hit reply.


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> Don't forget they are releasing a ZS3 hybrid soon too. I love the ZS3 shell - so comfy and sleek looking!









What? where? when?
Give me your source for this plz


----------



## Viber

vector84 said:


> Well inspired by the ES3 setup (and by testing the process on a broken set...) I decided to stop waiting for screens to show up and just went ahead and modded a pair of ZS5(v1)s.
> 
> Initial impressions: Mids seem a lot cleaner - clearer vocals, cymbals slightly recessed, more natural sounding strings - less "ethereal" / "holographic" sounding to me, so if you really love that effect, that might be a con.  Personally, I'm extremely happy with the results so far.



Yep, it makes the ZS5 more versatile,correct sounding and less gimmicky.
Instead of getting a performance of 10/10 on some tracks and 6/10 on other tracks you get a 9/10 performance for the vast majority of tracks.

I think KZ would do it themselves if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to put foam/absorption material exactly around each BA in each nozzle.


----------



## Ynot1 (Sep 11, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Patent trolls aren't even the worst thing going on with patents anymore... attempting to fix that problem has brought about an even worse scenario where the new game is being a big enough fish to just outright get patents revoked so you can legally steal ideas from anyone not big enough to defend themselves, thus completely defeating the purpose of the entire patent system.
> 
> But while budget minded threads are generally far more likely to highlight social inequalities, political issues, etc, etc... this line of commentary feels pretty digressive and even as I type this, I can't help but wonder if I should bother to hit reply.




You're right. Special interest controls congress. And patent laws can be reversed such that big banks no longer have to pay rights to use atm technology for instance. I feel bad for the guy who patented it. Also if you are connected in this connected economy, then you don't have to worry cause you got the guy, it's covered so to speak. Fair or not it is not sustainable, who wants to innovate when this happens?

Arguably connected people, but connected people tend to want to be comfortable and adapts to not wanting to do any work. Since the lost decades productivity has gone down. 

But I like KZ, it makes me happy.


----------



## Mellowship

vector84 said:


> Patent trolls aren't even the worst thing going on with patents anymore... attempting to fix that problem has brought about an even worse scenario where the new game is being a big enough fish to just outright get patents revoked so you can legally steal ideas from anyone not big enough to defend themselves, thus completely defeating the purpose of the entire patent system.
> 
> But while budget minded threads are generally far more likely to highlight social inequalities, political issues, etc, etc... this line of commentary feels pretty digressive and even as I type this, I can't help but wonder if I should bother to hit reply.



Let's wrap it up around KZ products then! 
I guess we are here to celebrate the liberation made possible by Chinese companies, to democratize good sound and high fidelity. KZ is one of the most successful and, by the size of this thread, celebrated brands in this regard. But the way they are doing it is not perfect, and maybe they are not listening enough to their overseas costumers (or maybe it is not their interest to do so, regarding the size of the Chinese domestic market). KZ should have taken off already, with a lineup of 100% original products, instead of getting a too-close "inspiration" on companies such as Sennheiser (the IE80), Audio Technica (ATE/ATR), some European custom iem brand I can't recall (ZS3), Campfire (ZS5/6)... 
I think they were on the right track with the ED9 and they should have come already with an original design for their other IEMs... 
I don't think people buy KZ's products to look like they have the expensive original stuff. At least here where I live (at the tip of continental Europe), people don't care much about IEMs and the mainstream market is very small. Sometimes I stroll through the stores looking for some novelties and all you can see is some Sony, Philips, Pioneer, JBL, a very few Senns (the cheapest ones), a very few JVC, the freakin' Beats, the Bose and, mainly, the store-branded crap that you get for 3 or 4 euros. No one here would care if I was sporting a 1000 euro IEM or one of those crappy earbuds. In fact, as in most places around Europe, most people I see are using the iPhone earbuds and the stock Samsung IEMs while they commute, along with some Sony or Pioneer on-ear headphones. 
Just the other day my colleagues noticed I had a new "thingy"... "aw its so cute..." "is it expensive"? It was the Benjie S5... (and I usually take the FiiO X3II with a leather case and an external amp...). So, social and economically speaking, in most of the western world, IEMs and portable audio gear won't give you style or "street credit" or whatever. Not at least as much as branded clothes or handbags or an iPhone...


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> What? where? when?
> Give me your source for this plz



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1409#post-13714187


----------



## Viber

slaterlovesspam said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1409#post-13714187



Hmm, very interesting!
I also love the ZS3 design (without the memory wire ofc). It's almost like they become part of your ear and they isolate amazingly well.

A ZS3 hybrid is very interesting because the ZS3 are almost perfect as a budget iems, all they need is another driver for treble presence, something that will make them sound more natural.


----------



## tworule

following....


----------



## -sandro-

Main differences between the ZSE and ZST?


----------



## loomisjohnson

goodvibes said:


> It's a simple right from wrong issue. I never said anyone in this thread bought them to pretend they were campfires. I also don't care if someone else chooses to buy a knockoff if he likes the sound for what he pays. To each his own but not many reviews don't comment on the similarity. That isn't coincidence. Rationalize it any way you want but it's simply wrong. If you can't see that, I can't help you. I haven't started nor plan to start a boycott, LOL. I like it so it's all good all the time is common internet fanboy speak. You can like a product, choose to buy it but still recognize it a knocked off design. Same with comparing it with false equivalences to products that develop a natural shape. No judgement against anyone that bought them. It's commentary that's aimed strictly at the maker and will stop when no longer responded to.


unlike the sleek, smooth-edged zst or zs3, i don't think the zs5 is a particularly attractive or ergonomic design + i'm not sure campfire is a household name--you'd think kz would copy other, more established designs.


----------



## cirodts

Viber said:


> I might be crazy but i put some foam around the BA driver inside the nozzle, the sound so far is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


would you explain me better than I have to do to make this mod


----------



## Viber

cirodts said:


> would you explain me better than I have to do to make this mod



Ok. I'll post instructions once and for all.

1.First thing to know it that the metal mesh will get damaged during this mod.
2. Open up the mesh using a needle.
3. you will see something like this:

4.You'll need a piece of foam, i used the black foam they put to protect computer parts.
5.Look at the picture, see that metal part in the nozzle? thats the BA driver.
6. Take a *small* piece of the foam and try to insert the foam so it surrounds the BA driver, use the needle to do so.
7.Be careful not to touch the actual BA driver with the needle, dont do any damage to internal parts.
8.Close the mesh.

*Do the mod at your own risk.


----------



## maxxevv

loomisjohnson said:


> ... i don't think the zs5 is a particularly attractive or ergonomic design + i'm not sure campfire is a household name--you'd think kz would copy other, more established designs.



Exactly. 

Other than on high-brow forums (like head-fi) or websites, I hardly ever note a whimper of mention on anything over a US$100/- anywhere with regards to earphones.  The only times that happen is when people talk about the industry big names like Sennheiser, UE, Shure and those that spend a big deal on market visibility like Jays, Beats and Bose.  

Talk to anyone on the street, you're likely to have a less than 1/100 chance of finding someone who can name a brand that has the bulk of their earphones over the US$250/- mark be it Campfire or Noble or whatever else is out there. 

Audiophile specific brands are a pretty obscure occurrence to the average man on the street.  I wouldn't say KZ is doing fine copying the look of the Andromeda, as the ZS5 isn't exactly a comfortable earphone to put on for me.  I do think its lazy.  
But seriously, it doesn't even register on the radar blip in influencing buyer behaviour from the branding standpoint other than it looks radically different from the budget earphones out there. And may get budget buyers to take notice. Those people will have no clue where the inspired design was from at all.  Perhaps like 1 in a 100 chance of those that wear their earpieces on the go. The others who don't, the odds are even higher ....


----------



## cirodts

Viber said:


> Ok. I'll post instructions once and for all.
> 
> 1.First thing to know it that the metal mesh will get damaged during this mod.
> 2. Open up the mesh using a needle.
> ...


thanks


Viber said:


> Ok. I'll post instructions once and for all.
> 
> 1.First thing to know it that the metal mesh will get damaged during this mod.
> 2. Open up the mesh using a needle.
> ...


thanks


----------



## vladstef (Sep 11, 2017)

New photo from KZ ali store. Looks like they didn't just use a stock photo with photoshoped ZS6 but actually hired a photographer, so it might be interesting for some. ZS6 really looks amazing though, all this copy-cat design is really making me kinda sad that they didn't use their own (personally, I like ZS6 better than Campfire Andromeda, the grills on the back are spot on).

They are probably just getting better at using photoshop, good for them.


----------



## groucho69

My experience with Banggood has been one of extended deliveries. Much longer than GB. YMMV.


----------



## groucho69

snip3r77 said:


> I'd still wait for GB flash price





VinceHill24 said:


> Seems like there was intense argument few pages back. Gave me a feeling that KZ followers is a cult not to be messed with lol. I think there's no absolute right or wrong given that the world we live in people with money and powers are constantly exploiting others with something called patent. Inequalities are getting out of control in this overpopulated Earth and i believe many who barely earns enough or those from the 3rd world country will find KZ a safe haven for them to at least enjoy music. A pair of CA would probably feed them and their family for a year or so



CULT?


----------



## vector84

While I experienced a few hot spots initially with the ZS5, they were pretty tame compared to some far more ergonomic shapes I've tried.
Honestly for anything but watching TV in bed (laughing while laying down with them can cause them to dig into my ears) I find them to be one of the most comfortable fits I've ever gotten.

Still on the fence about the ZS6 though... all those design changes and the initial ZS5(v2) reports... who knows what they might end up sounding like? 
The fake screw certainly strike me as cheapening the whole experience, but hey, maybe it can be used for tuning or something 


Also, prior to using ZS5s, Campfires always looked to me like a mighty expensive way to torture yourself.  Now, while I still can't see myself buying a pair of Andromedas any time soon, I might actually consider trying out something from their lower end offerings at some point...


----------



## vector84

groucho69 said:


> My experience with Banggood has been one of extended deliveries. Much longer than GB. YMMV.


I've only ordered a few IEMs from them, but my mileage varies quite a bit - delivery times as specified, and their support happily sent out a replacement for a damaged ZS5 a full 29 days after receipt - pretty above and beyond what I expected in that situation honestly.


----------



## Intensecure

vladstef said:


> with photoshoped ZS6


That is so totally photoshopped in - no-one ear looks like that! They've taken the photo with the IEM in a dummy ear and shopped it in, you can see the difference.


----------



## Mellowship

Intensecure said:


> That is so totally photoshopped in - no-one ear looks like that! They've taken the photo with the IEM in a dummy ear and shopped it in, you can see the difference.


Yes, it's photoshopped. The digital noise in the ZS6 is much higher then in the model, the ear looks strange and the cable looks unnatural too. But they are getting better with these PS images.


----------



## vladstef

Intensecure said:


> That is so totally photoshopped in - no-one ear looks like that! They've taken the photo with the IEM in a dummy ear and shopped it in, you can see the difference.





Mellowship said:


> Yes, it's photoshopped. The digital noise in the ZS6 is much higher then in the model, the ear looks strange and the cable looks unnatural too. But they are getting better with these PS images.



Yeah, you guys are probably right, I corrected my post. They had me fooled as I didn't try to look for small mistakes, I am way too used to absolute garbage photoshop being used for similar promo photos of other IEMs.


----------



## snip3r77 (Sep 11, 2017)

Intensecure said:


> That is so totally photoshopped in - no-one ear looks like that! They've taken the photo with the IEM in a dummy ear and shopped it in, you can see the difference.


Looks like a Stephen King character with an ear such as this


----------



## Francisk (Sep 11, 2017)

Just received my ES3 today and here's my first impressions pairing it with KZ gold cable and the Comply T400 foam tips plugged into my desktop Audio GD NFB11.32 DAC/Amp:

1.) Sounds closest to ZST color edition though slightly less efficient therefore more juice is needed to drive the ES3 to it's best. Having said that, it's still slightly more efficient than ZS5.
2.) High mid frequencies sound more forward and appears to sound slightly more aggressive and energetic although ZST color edition seems to be slightly more efficient (slightly louder at the same volume)
3.) Due to more forward high mid frequencies, ES3 gives an impression of a more detailed and energetic mid with vocals that appear to pop out more.
4.) Treble extension seems about equal to ZST color edition but with a little more lower treble. Combine this with the forward high mid frequencies, some tracks that are mixed with more treble energy may sound a tad bright and forward but still remain controlled without reaching piercing sibilance levels. This might be the Comply T400 doing it's job smoothing out those high frequency peaks. Overall there's more than ample energy in the high frequency region with an airy presentation and snappy transient attacks from percussive instruments and electric guitar solos bite harder.
5.) Bass frequency is about equal to ZST color edition which is a tad accentuated but yet remains quite tight and free from the usual bloat that creeps into the mids. Low frequencies on ES3 does extend pretty well and balanced up nicely with the forward high mid/low treble region.
6.) Soundstage is about equal to ZST color edition but slightly narrower than the ZS5 however both ES3 and ZST color edition gives a better sense of 3D. I feel like I'm in the band as opposed to being an audience with the ZS5. Instrument separation and layering is also quite impressive.
7.) My only complaint is that the ES3 is not as comfortable as the ZST and ZS5 but not unbearable.

Well, these are my first impressions and I'm liking the ES3 a lot so far. I've never owned a $10 IEM that sounds this good...well I actually paid less than $10 
PS: This of course is my own personal experience therefore YMMV.


----------



## danimoca (Sep 11, 2017)

Sooo many people saying good things about the ZS5's, but absolutely no comparisons to more mainstream brands and models.

How do they compare to something like the Hifiman RE-400's? Or the VSD3's from VSONIC? Or the Fiio F5's?

Yes, they're more expensive, but many people already have those models, and the hype here makes them think the KZ's are actually going to be a step up.


----------



## TJK81

-sandro- said:


> Main differences between the ZSE and ZST?


General differences are that ZSE's are 2DD and ZST's 1DD + 1BA. 
ZSE cheaper than ZST.


----------



## CoiL

Viber said:


> Yep, it makes the ZS5 more versatile,correct sounding and less gimmicky.
> Instead of getting a performance of 10/10 on some tracks and 6/10 on other tracks you get a 9/10 performance for the vast majority of tracks.
> 
> I think KZ would do it themselves if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to put foam/absorption material exactly around each BA in each nozzle.



Well... I have v1 ZS5 and I removed grills (as almost always do) and I like my ZS5 more without grills or foam. 

*Result really depends on source gear too.
*
_Quote: Initial impressions: Mids seem a lot cleaner - clearer vocals, cymbals slightly recessed, more natural sounding strings -* less "ethereal" / "holographic" sounding to me, so if you really love that effect*, that might be a con. Personally, I'm extremely happy with the results so far._

On both my modded setups it doesn`t have any *added* *"ethereal" / "holographic" *effect (only as much there is on recording, very few times been even less than should be) and mids sound very clear (to me it`s weird that vocals get clearer with added foam, they don`t to me - foam *around *BA should actually recess mids coming from DD). 

Sounds to me that some of You doesn`t have so "mids-capable" source gear or just aren`t used with high details SQ.

Anyway, I would anytime prefer SQ of 10/10 on HD tracks (great mastering recordings) instead 9/10 and making bad or not so good masterings better with losing SQ on HD tracks. 

JMHSO 



slaterlovesspam said:


> Nice to hear from you Coil. I'll be happy to shoot you a PM if/when the ZS3 hybrid is out.
> 
> You are correct - the ZS5 rev2 does have 2xBA, but very few people have it so far. The jury is still kind of out if it's 'better' than the v1. Plus there's no reliable place to get it (and be guaranteed the v2). A few people got theirs from Gearbest orders recently, but Gearbest themselves deny having the latest version when someone asked them about it directly. So ordering from Gearbest is a 50/50 crap shoot of getting v1 or v2 at this time.
> 
> Now all of the talk is about the ZS6 (metal shelled, open-backed IEM similar to the ZS5). It's not shipping until around the end of the month though, so no one actually has it yet that can comment on it.



Aaahh, another unofficial revision like ATE had many times. Sucks actually. Typical behaviour from KZ that I don`t appreciate.

But very exited about ZS6 and probably will get it. Thanks for information!


----------



## Slater (Sep 11, 2017)

Intensecure said:


> That is so totally photoshopped in - no-one ear looks like that! They've taken the photo with the IEM in a dummy ear and shopped it in, you can see the difference.





Mellowship said:


> Yes, it's photoshopped. The digital noise in the ZS6 is much higher then in the model, the ear looks strange and the cable looks unnatural too. But they are getting better with these PS images.





vladstef said:


> Yeah, you guys are probably right, I corrected my post. They had me fooled as I didn't try to look for small mistakes, I am way too used to absolute garbage photoshop being used for similar promo photos of other IEMs.



Not as bad as this Photoshop job LOL


----------



## vector84 (Sep 12, 2017)

CoiL said:


> foam *around *BA should actually recess mids coming from DD


That's what I would've thought too... But on my crude measurements it looked like I was getting a drop around 4kHz and a smaller gain around 5kHz, with the rest of the response untouched.

Phasing issue maybe?  Possibly one related to precision driver placement not being quite precise enough, or something?  Not really sure how to test such things, so I'm kinda reticent to comment more at the moment.

I think I may have inadvertently made other changes in the process, some thoughts on this later maybe.


----------



## Slater

You know, I just realized something.

I predict that the new ZS3 hybrid IS the ZSR.

Because the ZSR is supposed to be the "next" IEM released between the ZS6 and the ZS10. And that roughly coincides with when the ZS3 hybrid was reported to be slated for release.

Obviously it's only speculation and a hunch on my part, but I had an a-ha moment and thought it would be interesting to see if I'm right.


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> You know, I just realized something.
> 
> I predict that the new ZS3 hybrid IS the ZSR.
> 
> ...




I believed that intagram post that has all this info about ZSR and ZS10 because they posted photos of ZS6 before anyone else (as far as I know). So, this would suggest that ZSR is going to have 1DD and 2BA. For some reason, when people said ZS3 hybrid I just though that they would add another standard KZ BA driver (30095) in the nozzle and call it a day. That would create a standardized approach to hybrid technology in 3 different bodies - ZST, ES3 and ZSR(ZS3), and this would be too much redundancy now that I think about it.

Maybe ZSR will have 1DD + 2BA in ZS3 body and I'd bet that these 2BA would be exactly what's inside ZS5 v2 and ZS6 nozzles, while DD could have a slightly different tuning. I dislike the idea of ES3, a completely random product which doesn't appear to be a ZST upgrade and acts as a weird sidestep with different tuning. It's the naming that's messing with me, if they called it ZST S or something like that (but less stupid), it would probably make more sense.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Doing some burn in..
..


----------



## -sandro- (Sep 11, 2017)

I'm having a session with the ATR and just can't quite place them. They sound veiled and way too dark, they upper mids seem less detailed than the m1hc. Like they're digital compressed. Also I noticed that the tips could be the cause of this darkness. If I move them around the sound opens up. Could it be? Even though I can't "hear" the details of the tracks.
I'm getting the einsear t2 but I also wanna try a BA armature, not sure if to get the ZSE or the ZS5. The first I'm scared could resemble the ATR darkness and the second could be disappointing and "expensive" for someone who just wants to try. 

Anyway the cheapest is $17 from gearbest now? no coupons?


----------



## TJK81 (Sep 11, 2017)

@Fox2twenty: I do not recommend continuous burning in (especially overnite) head/earphones with pink/brown/white noise. Some people "burn" the drivers on their K701/K702's. If burnin' in, its recommend to make noise loop with quiet sections, for rest drivers, to prevent their damage.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Regarding intellectual property: patents etc are to protect truly novel work for a period of time and allow for some initial profit to be made by the creator.

KZ didn't copy anything novel. They didn't recreate exact replicas of Campfire iems.

Guess what? Folks make similar items all the time. Just look at sports cars.

#CampfireGate


----------



## Fox2twenty

TJK81 said:


> @Fox2twenty: I do not recommend continuous burning in (especially overnite) head/earphones with pink/brown/white noise. Some people "burn" the drivers on their K701/K702's. If burnin' in, its recommend to make noise loop with quite sections, for rest drivers, to prevent their damage.


Well good thing I just stopped.


----------



## whisky_x

-sandro- said:


> I'm having a session with the ATR and just can't quite place them. They sound veiled and way too dark, they upper mids seem less detailed than the m1hc. Like they're digital compressed. Also I noticed that the tips could be the cause of this darkness. If I move them around the sound opens up. Could it be? Even though I can't "hear" the details of the tracks.
> I'm getting the einsear t2 but I also wanna try a BA armature, not sure if to get the ZSE or the ZS5. The first I'm scared could resemble the ATR darkness and the second could be disappointing and "expensive" for someone who just wants to try.
> 
> Anyway the cheapest is $17 from gearbest now? no coupons?


I bought ZS5 (no mic) a week ago for $14 on Aliexpress, the original price is $22. There is a promo $4 off for new registered user, $2 off for order above $19, and $2 off if you play Flipping game (very easy to get reward). Totally save $8 off.


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> I'm getting the einsear t2 but I also wanna try a BA armature, not sure if to get the ZSE or the ZS5.



ZSE is dual dynamic drivers, similar to ZS1, ZS2, ZN1.

KZ hybrid IEMs: ZST, ZS5, ES3, ZS6, (and soon to be ZS10 and soon to be unnamed ZS3 hybrid).


----------



## Keller2

Got the ES3. I honestly couldn't ask for more in a ZST Sequel . It's like a ZST with more bass. It's still seperated from the other frequencies and still sounds excellent, with the clarity and detail.

The soundstage is also different. I like it.

This is what i hoped the ZS5 sounded like before the ZS5 released.


----------



## -sandro-

whisky_x said:


> I bought ZS5 (no mic) a week ago for $14 on Aliexpress, the original price is $22. There is a promo $4 off for new registered user, $2 off for order above $19, and $2 off if you play Flipping game (very easy to get reward). Totally save $8 off.



could you please link the item/seller? I can't find the $2 off for $19 one...also where is the game?


----------



## loomisjohnson

-sandro- said:


> I'm having a session with the ATR and just can't quite place them. They sound veiled and way too dark, they upper mids seem less detailed than the m1hc. Like they're digital compressed. Also I noticed that the tips could be the cause of this darkness. If I move them around the sound opens up. Could it be? Even though I can't "hear" the details of the tracks.
> I'm getting the einsear t2 but I also wanna try a BA armature, not sure if to get the ZSE or the ZS5. The first I'm scared could resemble the ATR darkness and the second could be disappointing and "expensive" for someone who just wants to try.
> 
> Anyway the cheapest is $17 from gearbest now? no coupons?


you'll like the einsear--it's a very refined iem. if you want to try a cheap ba/dd hybrid (the zse is a dd), my strong recommendation would be the urbanfun hifi.


----------



## Mellowship

Fox2twenty said:


> Well good thing I just stopped.


I always use music. Supertramp's Cryme of the Century is my favourite burn in album.


----------



## AudioAw2015 (Sep 11, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> I'm having a session with the ATR and just can't quite place them. They sound veiled and way too dark, they upper mids seem less detailed than the m1hc. Like they're digital compressed. Also I noticed that the tips could be the cause of this darkness. If I move them around the sound opens up. Could it be? Even though I can't "hear" the details of the tracks.
> I'm getting the einsear t2 but I also wanna try a BA armature, not sure if to get the ZSE or the ZS5. The first I'm scared could resemble the ATR darkness and the second could be disappointing and "expensive" for someone who just wants to try.
> 
> Anyway the cheapest is $17 from gearbest now? no coupons?



I have the ATR as well and I am just as disappointed with it as you are. The way I see it is that with these low cost drivers, the tuning is important. If done poorly, like with the ATR, the flaws magnifies themselves. I purchased the ATR because I wanted something with less bass than the ATE. The ATE has a energetic and full bass / lower midrange coupled with just enough treble cutting through to distract you so that you don't really notice the lack of details or the slow attacking midrange. With the ATR, they took that sound curve and flattened it, and the result was bass without dynamics and a muddy midrange. That's pretty much what you're hearing, a poorly tuned product.

What I suggest is to try all the different tips you have, even the ones that might not fit comfortably. That's what I had to do to get some decent results out of my ATE. If you're considering the ZS5, you can rest assured that it sounds nothing like the ATR, but it does have a pretty vibrant treble that you might find fatiguing if you're sensitive to high frequencies.


----------



## bhazard

I just got the ES3 in too. I like it better than the ZS5 already. It really does sound like an upgraded ZST


----------



## Mellowship

loomisjohnson said:


> you'll like the einsear--it's a very refined iem. if you want to try a cheap ba/dd hybrid (the zse is a dd), my strong recommendation would be the urbanfun hifi.


The einsear T2 are great and very well built.


----------



## Fox2twenty

bhazard said:


> I just got the ES3 in too. I like it better than the ZS5 already. It really does sound like an upgraded ZST


Maybe I should take a ZS5 break and throw in the ES3s..


----------



## -sandro-

AudioAw2015 said:


> I have the ATR as well and I am just as disappointed with it. The way I see it is that with these low cost drivers, the tuning is important. If done poorly, like with the ATR, the flaws magnifies themselves. I purchased the ATR because I wanted something with less bass than the ATE. The ATE has a energetic and full bass / lower midrange coupled with just enough treble cutting through to distract you so that you don't really notice the lack of details and the slow attacking midrange. With the ATR, they took that sound curve and flattened it, and the result was bass without dynamics and a muddy midrange. That's pretty much what you're hearing, a poorly tuned product.
> 
> What I suggest is to try all the different tips you have, even the ones that might not fit comfortably. That's what I had to do to get some decent results out of my ATE. If you're considering the ZS5, you can rest assured that it sounds nothing like the ATR, but it does have a pretty vibrant treble that you might find fatiguing if you're sensitive to high frequencies.



So according to you the ATR just has low quality in terms of details or is it just the tuning?


----------



## AudioAw2015 (Sep 11, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> So according to you the ATR just has low quality in terms of details or is it just the tuning?



It's both. The drivers themselves aren't really capable to start with and mix that in with poor tuning and what you get is a bad sound. That's why I find the ATE much more enjoyable than the ATR even though they are technically the same product.


----------



## Keller2

bhazard said:


> I just got the ES3 in too. I like it better than the ZS5 already. It really does sound like an upgraded ZST


It also is better built . The seam between the faceplate and the body is much much much smaller. To the point where i cant get a fingernail in it.

Altho it's larger. Which is still comfy for me. Others beware though.


----------



## Mellowship

AudioAw2015 said:


> It's both. The drivers themselves aren't really capable to start with and mix that in with poor tuning and what you get is a bad sound. That's why I find the ATE much more enjoyable than the ATR even though they are technically the same product.


I would say they are totally different. The ATE still surprises me with its ability to pour honey in the music. They are so sweet and vibrant at the same time. Just listen to a slide guitar, a feminine voice... I mean, they are fun and still accurate. The ATR is just dull in comparison. No magic.


----------



## bjaardker

TJK81 said:


> @Fox2twenty: I do not recommend continuous burning in (especially overnite) head/earphones with pink/brown/white noise. Some people "burn" the drivers on their K701/K702's. If burnin' in, its recommend to make noise loop with quiet sections, for rest drivers, to prevent their damage.



FWIW, you don't really have to worry about "over burning" IEMs. The drivers are simply too small and there's simply not enough energy or movement happening to heat them up and damage them like you can with full size headphones or speakers.

The only way to really damage a pair of IEMs would be to burn them in too loud and actually blow the driver.

My preferred way to burn in headphones is to use http://www.bassdrive.com/. Just turn on their livestream and let them burn for 48 hours.


----------



## TJK81

@bjaardker: Yep, you could be right. That's why i mentioned full sized AKG's. Altrough the KZ's are not so expensive i'm not going to risk and blow them out.


----------



## -sandro-

loomisjohnson said:


> you'll like the einsear--it's a very refined iem. if you want to try a cheap ba/dd hybrid (the zse is a dd), my strong recommendation would be the urbanfun hifi.



the urbanfun are on the par with the zs5?


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> I've only ordered a few IEMs from them, but my mileage varies quite a bit - delivery times as specified, and their support happily sent out a replacement for a damaged ZS5 a full 29 days after receipt - pretty above and beyond what I expected in that situation honestly.



Maybe time to try them again.


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> You know, I just realized something.
> 
> I predict that the new ZS3 hybrid IS the ZSR.
> 
> ...



Stop staring at your balls.


----------



## groucho69

Fox2twenty said:


> Doing some burn in..
> ..



I have brown noise after I eat broccoli...


----------



## loomisjohnson

-sandro- said:


> the urbanfun are on the par with the zs5?


they're very different beasts--the urbanfun is more audiophile accurate/refined/clinical while the zs5 is more energetic/bigger and more immersive. whether one is "better" is purely a matter of taste--i dig them both but would pick the urbanfun if i could only have one, though many smarter people on this site would choose the kz. i will say that the zs5 don't really shine without an amp, so if you're just using your mobile the uf would be the pick.


----------



## -sandro- (Sep 11, 2017)

loomisjohnson said:


> they're very different beasts--the urbanfun is more audiophile accurate/refined/clinical while the zs5 is more energetic/bigger and more immersive. whether one is "better" is purely a matter of taste--i dig them both but would pick the urbanfun if i could only have one, though many smarter people on this site would choose the kz. i will say that the zs5 don't really shine without an amp, so if you're just using your mobile the uf would be the pick.


I understand what you're saying, the fact that zs5 needs an amp or is song dependent is not very inspiring...
Though they're described as V-shaped and that's not for me...


----------



## Fox2twenty

bjaardker said:


> FWIW, you don't really have to worry about "over burning" IEMs. The drivers are simply too small and there's simply not enough energy or movement happening to heat them up and damage them like you can with full size headphones or speakers.
> 
> The only way to really damage a pair of IEMs would be to burn them in too loud and actually blow the driver.
> 
> My preferred way to burn in headphones is to use http://www.bassdrive.com/. Just turn on their livestream and let them burn for 48 hours.


I'm hoping an hour or so of pink/brown/white noise will be sufficient.


----------



## Tmanning47

Hoping my ES3s will come this week, they will be my first real IEMs but I have trouble with tips on anything else I've ever tried. Apple earbuds fit in my ears perfectly, should I try Complys? If so which ones?


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

KZ ZSE, GearBest, €3.36

Coupon: GBKZ912

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_689564.html?wid=21&lkid=11345315


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> Hoping my ES3s will come this week, they will be my first real IEMs but I have trouble with tips on anything else I've ever tried. Apple earbuds fit in my ears perfectly, should I try Complys? If so which ones?


T400 mediums should be fine.


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> Well... I have v1 ZS5 and I removed grills (as almost always do) and I like my ZS5 more without grills or foam.
> 
> *Result really depends on source gear too.
> *
> ...



Ummm yeah, my HRT Headstreamer is good enough to play with my Denon D2000 and it's practically built for Headphones with low impedance so i'm pretty sure the problem isn't with my gear or me not being use to detailed sound or HD tracks.

It's also not accurate to say that it's only got to do with the mastering of the track, it also depends on the character of the track.
*We should just stick to different ears hear things differently and leave it at that.*


----------



## Francisk (Sep 11, 2017)

Tmanning47 said:


> Hoping my ES3s will come this week, they will be my first real IEMs but I have trouble with tips on anything else I've ever tried. Apple earbuds fit in my ears perfectly, should I try Complys? If so which ones?


I find the Comply T400 tips to pair really nice with the ES3. You might have to choose the right size for a secure fit in your ear.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Francisk said:


> I find the Comply T400 tips to pair really nice with the ES3. You might have to choose the right size for a secure fit in your ear.


Going to test this tonight


----------



## CYoung234

loomisjohnson said:


> they're very different beasts--the urbanfun is more audiophile accurate/refined/clinical while the zs5 is more energetic/bigger and more immersive. whether one is "better" is purely a matter of taste--i dig them both but would pick the urbanfun if i could only have one, though many smarter people on this site would choose the kz. i will say that the zs5 don't really shine without an amp, so if you're just using your mobile the uf would be the pick.



I have 2 sets of ZS5's, a set of the Urbanfun HiFis, and the EMI CI880, and, while I like the points you make, I question your source perhaps. My Nexus 6p running Ainur Sauron with the Dirac add-on, using Neutron as the player has no trouble driving the ZS5 at all. To me, all three of these IEMs are pretty evenly matched. I like the ZS5 as it throws a large soundstage with plenty of air and space around the instruments. Its faults to me are that it lacks a little weight or punch at times, and the mids, especially female vocals can be a touch recessed. I find the EMI to be the mist clinical of the three, but still fun to listen to. It is a little weightier than the ZS5, but the soundstage is a bit smaller. It is less congested than the ZS5 on complex passages, very clean. To me, the Urbanfun is the most immersive of the three, accurate, fun to listen to, scales well. Very very similar to the EMI, but just a touch less clean and a touch more weight to the overall sound. If that makes any sense...


----------



## Fox2twenty

CYoung234 said:


> I have 2 sets of ZS5's, a set of the Urbanfun HiFis, and the EMI CI880, and, while I like the points you make, I question your source perhaps. My Nexus 6p running Ainur Sauron with the Dirac add-on, using Neutron as the player has no trouble driving the ZS5 at all. To me, all three of these IEMs are pretty evenly matched. I like the ZS5 as it throws a large soundstage with plenty of air and space around the instruments. Its faults to me are that it lacks a little weight or punch at times, and the mids, especially female vocals can be a touch recessed. I find the EMI to be the mist clinical of the three, but still fun to listen to. It is a little weightier than the ZS5, but the soundstage is a bit smaller. It is less congested than the ZS5 on complex passages, very clean. To me, the Urbanfun is the most immersive of the three, accurate, fun to listen to, scales well. Very very similar to the EMI, but just a touch less clean and a touch more weight to the overall sound. If that makes any sense...


Indeed. I like the "airiness" in the zs5 imaging.


----------



## maxxevv

CYoung234 said:


> I have 2 sets of ZS5's, a set of the Urbanfun HiFis, and the EMI CI880, and, while I like the points you make, I question your source perhaps. My Nexus 6p running Ainur Sauron with the Dirac add-on, using Neutron as the player has no trouble driving the ZS5 at all. To me, all three of these IEMs are pretty evenly matched. I like the ZS5 as it throws a large soundstage with plenty of air and space around the instruments. Its faults to me are that it lacks a little weight or punch at times, and the mids, especially female vocals can be a touch recessed. I find the EMI to be the mist clinical of the three, but still fun to listen to. It is a little weightier than the ZS5, but the soundstage is a bit smaller. It is less congested than the ZS5 on complex passages, very clean. To me, the Urbanfun is the most immersive of the three, accurate, fun to listen to, scales well. Very very similar to the EMI, but just a touch less clean and a touch more weight to the overall sound. If that makes any sense...



I think what loomisjohnson is referring to is the sensitivity of the ZS5 to source to compared to the Urbanfun.  

I don't have the ZS5 but the ZSE instead. And compared to the Urbanfun, it sounds very obviously different between different sources. It doesn't exhibit the clean bass and  overall sparkle when plugged into the laptop jack as opposed to my LG G6.  But for the Urbanfun, the difference is a lot more subtle, in fact not really obvious unless for very delicate music or very loud ones.  
If I have to choose only one, after a long weekend of testing between the CI880, Urbanfun Hifi and the HT06,  it would come in that order.  

The tuning of the Urbanfun is more smoothed out overall, very natural and in my opionion more or less neutral.  

The CI880 is a little more clinical in the details, it seems to play the details louder/more clearly comparatively.  For the way I like to listen to and most of the stuff I listen to, this works better as even though its such, it doesn't sound unnatural to me at all.  It just heightens the listening experience.


----------



## whisky_x (Sep 11, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> could you please link the item/seller? I can't find the $2 off for $19 one...also where is the game?



I bought my zs5 from seller "AK Audio store". Unfortunately, I just check it again and noticed that they increased their price from $22 to $24. But $2 off for order above $19 is still available if you click on Discounts & Coupons (right under shipping method). Another $2 off coupon you can get by playing Flipping game on Ali mobile app, it's free to play every Monday, or alternative is exchange 20 coins to get coupon (require check-in to collect coin for 4 days in-a-row).


----------



## Fox2twenty

After a little burn in, I think the zs5 did improve a little. This sort of electronic music seems to show off the zs5 - -


----------



## mochill

Fox2twenty said:


> I'm hoping an hour or so of pink/brown/white noise will be sufficient.


http://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in


----------



## Fox2twenty

mochill said:


> http://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in


Okay cool thanks


----------



## mochill

Your welcome


----------



## bjaardker (Sep 12, 2017)

*delete this post*


----------



## -sandro- (Sep 12, 2017)

Mellowship said:


> I would say they are totally different. The ATE still surprises me with its ability to pour honey in the music. They are so sweet and vibrant at the same time. Just listen to a slide guitar, a feminine voice... I mean, they are fun and still accurate. The ATR is just dull in comparison. No magic.


 Yes! Dull is the right word. And I chose the atr over the ate because I thought the latter would be dull cause of the super bass...


----------



## Mellowship

-sandro- said:


> Yes! Dull is the right word. And I chose the atr over the ate because I thought the latter would be dull cause of the super bass...


For the price of a fancy Cappuccino, you can order the ATE and compare. I've heard the new ATE is slightly different from the first generation which is what I own, but the differences I guess are marginal. The ATE will perform well with every configuration, but the best results are with amplification and foam tips a size below that that usually fits your ears.


----------



## -sandro-

Mellowship said:


> For the price of a fancy Cappuccino, you can order the ATE and compare. I've heard the new ATE is slightly different from the first generation which is what I own, but the differences I guess are marginal. The ATE will perform well with every configuration, but the best results are with amplification and foam tips a size below that that usually fits your ears.



Yeah but I wouldn't use it cause bassy sound is not my thing.


----------



## randomnin

Hmm, and I was just about to buy ATR, because the flatness of the response graph is among the best of KZs. But you guys being so hard on it got me perplexed.


----------



## vector84

Seems like KZ's marketing team has some thoughts about the "big fish" too


----------



## CYoung234

maxxevv said:


> I think what loomisjohnson is referring to is the sensitivity of the ZS5 to source to compared to the Urbanfun.
> 
> I don't have the ZS5 but the ZSE instead. And compared to the Urbanfun, it sounds very obviously different between different sources. It doesn't exhibit the clean bass and  overall sparkle when plugged into the laptop jack as opposed to my LG G6.  But for the Urbanfun, the difference is a lot more subtle, in fact not really obvious unless for very delicate music or very loud ones.
> If I have to choose only one, after a long weekend of testing between the CI880, Urbanfun Hifi and the HT06,  it would come in that order.
> ...



I can definitely buy into the idea that the ZS5 is more sensitive to source, particularly given the wide variety of opinions about it here. Both of mine were purchased from Gearbest about a month apart, and they sound pretty much identical. While KZ undoubtedly has QC issues like any other manufacturer, I doubt they are as rampant as some would make it seem.

As far as your preferences, I could agree with them, although at least on my source and my ears, the UF provides a slightly better overall soundstage, and sound details that are off center in the soundscape seem clearer to me on the UF, while the EMI is slightly more homogenized, or mixed together, if that makes any sense... Again, these differences are very slight, and very dependent on what tracks you are using, music genre, etc. For classical music I still feel the ZS5's win overall. For acoustic music, the UF seems the best. For rock, maybe the EMI. 

I need to get some time to listen with my FIIO DAC and my laptop. The laptop by itself does not sound very good with any of these, but the DAC makes a huge difference. Surprisingly, the DAC does not seem to make very much difference when used with my phone (FIIO Q1 with USB micro to USB C cable.)


----------



## -sandro-

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=a0bc7b76-19d2-40c8-951d-9bbe071da011 is this the original Hi-Fi version of the UrbanFun?


----------



## maxxevv

-sandro- said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=a0bc7b76-19d2-40c8-951d-9bbe071da011 is this the original Hi-Fi version of the UrbanFun?



It describes it as having 1BA+ 1DD, which are the original Urbanfan Hifi's  that I have.  

And that's a very good price for the price they are selling at with the 20% discount.


----------



## maxxevv

CYoung234 said:


> I can definitely buy into the idea that the ZS5 is more sensitive to source, particularly given the wide variety of opinions about it here. Both of mine were purchased from Gearbest about a month apart, and they sound pretty much identical. While KZ undoubtedly has QC issues like any other manufacturer, I doubt they are as rampant as some would make it seem.
> 
> As far as your preferences, I could agree with them, although at least on my source and my ears, the UF provides a slightly better overall soundstage, and sound details that are off center in the soundscape seem clearer to me on the UF, while the EMI is slightly more homogenized, or mixed together, if that makes any sense... Again, these differences are very slight, and very dependent on what tracks you are using, music genre, etc. For classical music I still feel the ZS5's win overall. For acoustic music, the UF seems the best. For rock, maybe the EMI.
> 
> I need to get some time to listen with my FIIO DAC and my laptop. The laptop by itself does not sound very good with any of these, but the DAC makes a huge difference. Surprisingly, the DAC does not seem to make very much difference when used with my phone (FIIO Q1 with USB micro to USB C cable.)



I'm not sure about what branch of classical you listen to but if its some of the Nationalist era symphonies, yes the ZS5 probably sound good on them.   

I tried a friend's ZS5 on a Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto played by  David Ostrakh under Eugene Ormandy as well as the Kachahturian Violin Concerto played by Julia Fisher, to my ears, the ZS5 doesn't cut it with its slightly overfilled bass.  I rank the CI880,  UF and the XE800 above it in that aspect.  I drops furthur behind when I play Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings,  an old 1976 recording by Academy of St Martins by the Fields, Sir Neville Marinner.  The bass of the ZS5 muffs out things somewhat.  That said, it didn't sound bad at all when I played the 1812 Overture. 

I wouldn't say the CI880 is mixed in together in the stage, just that the stage doesn't sound so 'wide' comparatively. UF has a relatively wider stage without sounding artificial unlike some earphones.  Which is very good for any earphone IMO. 

Caveat in this whole conversation is that we all have different hearing perceptions when it comes to sound. What's most important I guess is that it sounds good yet natural to our ears.


----------



## loomisjohnson

CYoung234 said:


> I can definitely buy into the idea that the ZS5 is more sensitive to source, particularly given the wide variety of opinions about it here. Both of mine were purchased from Gearbest about a month apart, and they sound pretty much identical. While KZ undoubtedly has QC issues like any other manufacturer, I doubt they are as rampant as some would make it seem.
> 
> As far as your preferences, I could agree with them, although at least on my source and my ears, the UF provides a slightly better overall soundstage, and sound details that are off center in the soundscape seem clearer to me on the UF, while the EMI is slightly more homogenized, or mixed together, if that makes any sense... Again, these differences are very slight, and very dependent on what tracks you are using, music genre, etc. For classical music I still feel the ZS5's win overall. For acoustic music, the UF seems the best. For rock, maybe the EMI.
> 
> I need to get some time to listen with my FIIO DAC and my laptop. The laptop by itself does not sound very good with any of these, but the DAC makes a huge difference. Surprisingly, the DAC does not seem to make very much difference when used with my phone (FIIO Q1 with USB micro to USB C cable.)


i think we're all saying the same thing--the zs5 is particularly source-sensitive, which the uf and e-mi are not. i further agree that the uf is overall the most "natural", in the sense of being the most accurate reproduction of the music, tho not necessarily the most engaging. bottom line is everyone should have all three.


----------



## maxxevv

Definitely for the UF and the CI880 !  

Very capable earphones for they money they are asking for.  

As for the ZS5,  its probably a must have if you must have only 1 earphone to listen to everything !    Its good-for-everything earphone though not the best in particular applications IMO.   

I think the ZSE is a nice complement to UF and CI880 as its really great for general pop ( except the damn noisy cables !  )


----------



## vector84 (Sep 12, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lgo_pvid=a0bc7b76-19d2-40c8-951d-9bbe071da011 is this the original Hi-Fi version of the UrbanFun?





maxxevv said:


> It describes it as having 1BA+ 1DD, which are the original Urbanfan Hifi's  that I have.
> 
> And that's a very good price for the price they are selling at with the 20% discount.


As per Vidal's commentary: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/apr...chi-fi-iem-thread.858224/page-4#post-13713552

Probably not the *original* unless you can confirm from the seller...

I think the old ones have a braided cable cover, not the new rubberized one? which is grey for hybrid with updated driver, black for single DD berylium


----------



## -sandro-

vector84 said:


> As per Vidal's commentary: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/apr...chi-fi-iem-thread.858224/page-4#post-13713552
> 
> Probably not the *original* unless you can confirm from the seller...
> 
> I think the old ones have a braided cable cover, not the new rubberized one? which is grey for hybrid with updated driver, black for single DD berylium



isn't that listing on Ali with the grey cable?


----------



## vector84

-sandro- said:


> isn't that listing on Ali with the grey cable?


Well, the listing shows both the original above and the updated version below...

Hard to say for sure?


----------



## tworule

hello,

I am an ATH iem user. my current *ATH-CKW1000ANV* iem has a less volume on left side. the warranty does not cover. So can you suggest me a KZ iem that I can use during sports. I like bass  I am not an audiophile. mostly listening to rock and metal music on my iphone 5s. deezer is my source. so not very high quality. Thanks in advance.
ATE? es3? zs5? or any other? my budget is under 30 usd.


----------



## Viber

vector84 said:


> Seems like KZ's marketing team has some thoughts about the "big fish" too


----------



## loomisjohnson

tworule said:


> hello,
> 
> I am an ATH iem user. my current *ATH-CKW1000ANV* iem has a less volume on left side. the warranty does not cover. So can you suggest me a KZ iem that I can use during sports. I like bass  I am not an audiophile. mostly listening to rock and metal music on my iphone 5s. deezer is my source. so not very high quality. Thanks in advance.
> ATE? es3? zs5? or any other? my budget is under 30 usd.


Zs3


----------



## tworule

loomisjohnson said:


> Zs3



thanks


----------



## Viber

tworule said:


> hello,
> 
> I am an ATH iem user. my current *ATH-CKW1000ANV* iem has a less volume on left side. the warranty does not cover. So can you suggest me a KZ iem that I can use during sports. I like bass  I am not an audiophile. mostly listening to rock and metal music on my iphone 5s. deezer is my source. so not very high quality. Thanks in advance.
> ATE? es3? zs5? or any other? my budget is under 30 usd.



If you can afford it then buy QCY QY11.  It's bluetooth, but it sounds better than ZS3 and it fits sports better because there's no wire.  Just buy an original one.


----------



## maxxevv

The listing's description seems coherent to what I have and previously bought. 

If you want to be completely clear, ask the seller. They are are usually pretty upfront about such things as Aliexpress clamps down on them pretty hard if the product doesn't match description.


----------



## danimoca

Why are you guys complaining about the ATR's? If they're boring to you, that's fine. They're just a bit more neutral than the usual KZ's.


----------



## Tmanning47

Fox2twenty said:


> Going to test this tonight


Any news?


----------



## Tmanning47

Keller2 said:


> Got the ES3. I honestly couldn't ask for more in a ZST Sequel . It's like a ZST with more bass. It's still seperated from the other frequencies and still sounds excellent, with the clarity and detail.
> 
> The soundstage is also different. I like it.
> 
> This is what i hoped the ZS5 sounded like before the ZS5 released.


Can you expand on this at all?


----------



## goodvibes

Just saying.  Inear vs KZ


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> Any news?


Ummm.. I got stuck listening to the zs5...
....

Sorry. But the ZS5 sounds pretty good, if you are wondering... My bad.


----------



## Tmanning47

Fox2twenty said:


> Ummm.. I got stuck listening to the zs5...
> ....
> 
> Sorry. But the ZS5 sounds pretty good, if you are wondering... My bad.


Lol, no worries. Let me know when you get to the ES3s.


----------



## snip3r77

goodvibes said:


> Just saying.  Inear vs KZ


Inear's sub bass slam is damn good


----------



## vector84

goodvibes said:


> Just saying.  Inear vs KZ


And the big car companies have been doing this for the last 40 years so that people can have cars at controlable prices.

Not really sure what you're trying to prove...


----------



## B9Scrambler

For all of you that are still whining about KZ's borrowed designs, just look at their older products. Now stop complaining because you're a few years late.

Or keep going. Here is some fuel.

      ​


----------



## Ynot1

B9Scrambler said:


> For all of you that are still whining about KZ's borrowed designs, just look at their older products. Now stop complaining because you're a few years late.
> 
> Or keep going. Here is some fuel.
> 
> ​


I don't know about you, but I see only original designs... on the inside. Beauty is only skin deep.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Ynot1 said:


> I don't know about you, but I see only original designs... on the inside. Beauty is only skin deep.


Boom. Mic drop.


----------



## themindfreak

randomnin said:


> Hmm, and I was just about to buy ATR, because the flatness of the response graph is among the best of KZs. But you guys being so hard on it got me perplexed.


Atr is a very bassy earphone. In fact ATR ATE and ZSE have the same basic signature just that ZSE has more prominent highs compared to ATE then followed by ATE being more prominent in the highs to the ATR. ZSE>ATE>ATR. I owned the ATR and decided to sell it because as the others have said, it really is a bassy and dull earphone.


----------



## themindfreak

B9Scrambler said:


> For all of you that are still whining about KZ's borrowed designs, just look at their older products. Now stop complaining because you're a few years late.
> 
> Or keep going. Here is some fuel.
> 
> ​


Holy I didnt know they actually made a copy of that CKW


----------



## Fox2twenty

themindfreak said:


> Holy I didnt know they actually made a copy of that CKW


#CampfireGate
#CKWgate


----------



## Keller2 (Sep 12, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> #CampfireGate
> #CKWgate









#TFZGate



themindfreak said:


> Atr is a very bassy earphone. In fact ATR ATE and ZSE have the same basic signature just that ZSE has more prominent highs compared to ATE then followed by ATE being more prominent in the highs to the ATR. ZSE>ATE>ATR. I owned the ATR and decided to sell it because as the others have said, it really is a bassy and dull earphone.


To be fair i don't know who you'd sell it to considering it's a $4 headphone


Keep it in the KZ collection.


----------



## tworule

Viber said:


> If you can afford it then buy QCY QY11.  It's bluetooth, but it sounds better than ZS3 and it fits sports better because there's no wire.  Just buy an original one.


Thanks will look into it. Amazon has but seems there are fakes there.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Let's get this comparo started...
..


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wow.. Even kz promoting tip rolling now.. Lol.. This wasn't in the ZS5 box..


----------



## Fox2twenty




----------



## Viber (Sep 12, 2017)

tworule said:


> Thanks will look into it. Amazon has but seems there are fakes there.



I got mine from Gearbest and they were originals.


----------



## Carrow

Fox2twenty said:


> Wow.. Even kz promoting tip rolling now.. Lol.. This wasn't in the ZS5 box..



That's weird because I got that little insert thingy with my ZS5s, haha.


----------



## Fox2twenty

So far the ES3 with  stock tips seems similar to the zs5 with Complys...


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> So far the ES3 with  stock tips seems similar to the zs5 with Complys...


And I like the shape better..


----------



## tworule

Viber said:


> I got mine from Gearbest and they were originals.


Gearbest is out of Stock for my country


----------



## Viber

tworule said:


> Gearbest is out of Stock for my country



Weird, i see the black color is in stock.
QY11 should be very good too and even more suited for sports.


----------



## -sandro-

themindfreak said:


> Atr is a very bassy earphone. In fact ATR ATE and ZSE have the same basic signature just that ZSE has more prominent highs compared to ATE then followed by ATE being more prominent in the highs to the ATR. ZSE>ATE>ATR. I owned the ATR and decided to sell it because as the others have said, it really is a bassy and dull earphone.


Oh wait, if the zse has the same basic signature I definitely will not try them. With kz seems like you either get a dark/bassy sound or a Vshaped sound. No real balanced?


----------



## HungryPanda

tworule said:


> hello,
> 
> I am an ATH iem user. my current *ATH-CKW1000ANV* iem has a less volume on left side. the warranty does not cover. So can you suggest me a KZ iem that I can use during sports. I like bass  I am not an audiophile. mostly listening to rock and metal music on my iphone 5s. deezer is my source. so not very high quality. Thanks in advance.
> ATE? es3? zs5? or any other? my budget is under 30 usd.



For this ZS5 vs ES3....... ES3 wins


----------



## HUGO SILVA

ZS3 is a good in ear?


----------



## HungryPanda

HUGO SILVA said:


> ZS3 is a good in ear?



Of course


----------



## Fox2twenty

Further -

ES3 has better bass. ZS5 has better Treble and Soundstage.

I would currently suggest the newbie order ES3 and ZS6...

ES3 is about 85% as good as the ZS5 and the 15% is pretty much just Soundstage.


----------



## -sandro- (Sep 12, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Well, the listing shows both the original above and the updated version below...
> 
> Hard to say for sure?


I asked the seller but I'm not sure if I got it... the updated version with grey cable is the same as the original? or the only one to get is the braided cord one?
The only thing clear is that the beryllium version is single driver.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

-sandro- said:


> I asked the seller but I'm not sure if I got it... the updated version with grey cable is the same as the original? or the only one to get is the braided cord one?
> The only thing clear is that the beryllium version is single driver.



The grey cable UF is supposed to be the same as the old braided cable version. As far as I know nobody here on the forum has both to confirm they sound the same, though.


----------



## -sandro-

BunchOfAtoms said:


> The grey cable UF is supposed to be the same as the old braided cable version. As far as I know nobody here on the forum has both to confirm they sound the same, though.


ok, from the reviews form that seller I only see the braided and the rubberized grey cable. I don't see the black cable...


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Further -
> 
> ES3 has better bass. ZS5 has better Treble and Soundstage.
> 
> ...


Just threw the T400s on the ES3.. It's an improvement.


----------



## Slater

Keller2 said:


> #TFZGate
> 
> 
> To be fair i don't know who you'd sell it to considering it's a $4 headphone
> ...



I'll give him $2 for it!


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I got mine from Gearbest and they were originals.



Yeah, no worries with fakes from Gearbest. That's where I could get them if you want to be guaranteed to be problem-free. Even "fulfilled by Amazon" has issues sometimes.


----------



## -sandro-

Still listening to the ATR right now. I don't understand why the mids sound so "compressed", washed out... The sound signature is not that horrible in the end but the tuning of some part of the spectrum makes them... boring?


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> ok, from the reviews form that seller I only see the braided and the rubberized grey cable. I don't see the black cable...



You don't want the black cable. It's the single driver version (ie non-hybrid).

*You want the gray cable*, since pretty much no one has the old fabric-covered version anymore.


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> Oh wait, if the zse has the same basic signature I definitely will not try them. With kz seems like you either get a dark/bassy sound or a Vshaped sound. No real balanced?



That's kind of their house sound (v and u-shaped). It is probably the most popular among most consumers, so it's a safe bet for maximum sales.

I consider the ED3 (Perfection) as one of their most 'neutral' IEMs. Not perfectly neutral, but one of the least v-shaped offerings they have. If you remove the red mesh screen and either leave it off or replace it with a metal mesh screen, it is even more neutral. They run about $9-$10 last time I checked.

Also, I want to clarify whether you're talking about balanced or neutral? I'm assuming from the way you posed your question you mean neutral (or perfectly flat).

I have always considered them separate, as I think you can have a balanced sound that isn't perfectly neutral. In other words, having a good balance between the amounts of sun-bass, bass, midrange, and treble (which isn't always perfectly flat). That may not be the correct interpretation of the concept, but that's always how I've used it.


----------



## Fox2twenty

So..

ES3 and ZS5 both do well with Complys.

ZS5 is still better.

I guess I need to buy more foamies...


----------



## -sandro- (Sep 12, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's kind of their house sound (v and u-shaped). It is probably the most popular among most consumers, so it's a safe bet for maximum sales.
> 
> I consider the ED3 (Perfection) as one of their most 'neutral' IEMs. Not perfectly neutral, but one of the least v-shaped offerings they have. If you remove the red mesh screen and either leave it off or replace it with a metal mesh screen, it is even more neutral. They run about $9-$10 last time I checked.
> 
> ...



Sorry I actually mean balanced the way you described it, neutral makes me think of something really flat and boring with no musicality.

And I totally agree the sound signature from the KZs is mainstream/safe bet. In fact in the early days every iems I tried from the popular ones all had the same basics. If you want something tuned differently you had to look around for the lonely boys


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> So..
> 
> ES3 and ZS5 both do well with Complys.
> 
> ...



If you do get some, this guy has the best deal going right now by a long shot: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30p...-memory-foam-eartips-for-ear/32749249112.html

Less than $9 for TWENTY PAIRS, and you can customize your order any way you like - multiple colors (such as half red and half blue), multiple sizes (half S, half M), and multiple nozzle sizes (half 4mm, half 5mm).


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> If you do get some, this guy has the best deal going right now by a long shot: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30p...-memory-foam-eartips-for-ear/32749249112.html
> 
> Less than $9 for TWENTY PAIRS, and you can customize your order any way you like - multiple colors (such as half red and half blue), multiple sizes (half S, half M), and multiple nozzle sizes (half 4mm, half 5mm).


Just put it in the cart with some bludios for the Mrs. Great tip.


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> Sorry I actually mean balanced the way you described it, neutral makes me think of something really flat and boring with no musicality.
> 
> And I totally agree the sound signature from the KZs is mainstream/safe bet. In fact in the early days every iems I tried from the popular ones all had the same basics. If you want something tuned differently you had to look around for the lonely boys



Agreed - I'm honestly not really a fan of perfectly flat-as-a-board sound signature (at least not the music I listen to). Like you said, it always come across as boring and no energy. It's great for audio mixing/engineering though, but not the sound I want when I'm kicked back having fun.

I assume you looked around on Vidal's site? He has an extensive review of most KZs, and does a very straightforward job of listing the different bands.

Also, it sounds like you have a very specific tuning in mind. Have you ever tried EQ to get it dialed in just right? I have lots of headphones that are close to what I want but not perfect, and a quick touch of 1db here or there makes them perfect. With EQ you can control very specific frequencies with extremely granular control. Much more granular control than headphone manufacturers can generally achieve with basic driver and enclosure tuning. I mean, you can do this or that with a vent hole, foam, tuning cotton, shell volume, pad material, etc. But usually a tweak to one frequency caused a change to another. It's basically impossible to boost 5kHz by 1dB, cut 64Hz by 1.5dB, and cut 12kHz by 0.75dB with physical tuning alone. With EQ it's trivial.

I know a lot of people villianize like it's some sort of evil, but that is just crazy talk when you're talking about something that allows you to take a headphone/IEM that you love every aspect of - except for ONE minor thing - and with the click of a few buttons MAKE it literally perfect. I think if more people used EQ, they would stop the endless search for that "perfect" headphone that only exists in unicorn-land. Our ears are all slightly different - EQ is the great "equalizer" (literally).


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> Just put it in the cart with some bludios for the Mrs. Great tip.



Smart move. One of the keys to a happy marriage LOL.


----------



## AudioAw2015 (Sep 12, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> Still listening to the ATR right now. I don't understand why the mids sound so "compressed", washed out... The sound signature is not that horrible in the end but the tuning of some part of the spectrum makes them... boring?



To my ears, the ATR'S got a bass bump that starts pretty early and is quite pronounced relative to the sub bass causing a perceived drop off in bass extension. Also, with the dip smack in the middle, you lose a lot of that definition and punch with the midrange. Then there's a steep fallout after 4 kHz which is where a lot of that "airiness" and "detail" happens, so you're left with a restrained upper mid / lower treble.

All that translates to a weak midrange and little detail in the upper frequencies.


----------



## Tmanning47

Fox2twenty said:


> Further -
> 
> ES3 has better bass. ZS5 has better Treble and Soundstage.
> 
> ...


That's disappointing. Was hoping for a lot of soundstage.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> That's disappointing. Was hoping for a lot of soundstage.


Still really early as far as ABX... But yeah, zs5 clearly beats ES3 regarding Soundstage.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Still really early as far as ABX... But yeah, zs5 clearly beats ES3 regarding Soundstage.



I wish they would put the 4 zs5 drivers into an ES3 type shell....


----------



## cirodts

But with silver cable the zs5 gains in cleaning i have high frequencies?


----------



## vector84

slaterlovesspam said:


> I know a lot of people villianize like it's some sort of evil, but that is just crazy talk when you're talking about something that allows you to take a headphone/IEM that you love every aspect of - except for ONE minor thing - and with the click of a few buttons MAKE it literally perfect. I think if more people used EQ, they would stop the endless search for that "perfect" headphone that only exists in unicorn-land. Our ears are all slightly different - EQ is the great "equalizer" (literally).


Well EQ was some sort of evil in the days before high res audio became a commonplace thing (imo).


----------



## AplexApple

slaterlovesspam said:


> If you do get some, this guy has the best deal going right now by a long shot: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30p...-memory-foam-eartips-for-ear/32749249112.html
> 
> Less than $9 for TWENTY PAIRS, and you can customize your order any way you like - multiple colors (such as half red and half blue), multiple sizes (half S, half M), and multiple nozzle sizes (half 4mm, half 5mm).



What size tips should I get if i use the standard tips on the KZ ZST? 
Never tried foam tips before and plan on ordering these, but not sure what size to get.


----------



## Fox2twenty

cirodts said:


> But with silver cable the zs5 gains in cleaning i have high frequencies?


I have not rolled cables. But I think @slaterlovesspam will know...


----------



## vector84

So in the process of tampering with the pair of ZS5s I was modding, I inadvertently made an addition change...

The screens on my perceived working pair were actually in direct contact with the BA nozzle - I'm inclined to think this is the source of a significant amount of the differences I perceived in modifying my ZS5s, as when I replaced the screens (after adding the foam) I didn't place them in direct contact with the BA.  A bit more testing and tampering with the screens to restore that contact leaves me pretty convinced that this was the case.

*I'm not suggesting anyone take their screens out to check* - (remember it's a destructive process) - you should be able to see if this is the case through the screens just fine, I just never thought to check this pair because they sounded fine most of the time.


----------



## BrunoC

I just got the old KZ ED9.
I'm sincerely astonished! Comparing to the ZSE, it's miles ahead, much more clear and the bass is high quality with the gold filter. I still can't believe it costs 8€.

After the ZS5, the ED9 is the best KZ IEM in my opinion.


----------



## randomnin

slaterlovesspam said:


> But usually a tweak to one frequency caused a change to another. It's basically impossible to boost 5kHz by 1dB, cut 64Hz by 1.5dB, and cut 12kHz by 0.75dB with physical tuning alone. With EQ it's trivial.


This says we can't even hear 3dB differences.


----------



## Fox2twenty

BrunoC said:


> I just got the old KZ ED9.
> I'm sincerely astonished! Comparing to the ZSE, it's miles ahead, much more clear and the bass is high quality with the gold filter. I still can't believe it costs 8€.
> 
> After the ZS5, the ED9 is the best KZ IEM in my opinion.



Wow! High praise for the ed9


----------



## vector84 (Sep 12, 2017)

randomnin said:


> This says we can't even hear 3dB differences.


That article does a good job of explaining how you need to think about what a dB is...
Then proceeds to ignore its own advice and specify things in dB without an accompanying unit.
Sound Intensity and Sound Pressure are two very different things.

Also if you can't hear less than a 5 dBA variance, you'd be completely happy with consumer grade headphones and wouldn't be here on head-fi 

(because almost every headphone ever made would sound dead neutral to you - those are cherry picked statistics that don't relate at all to the examples they're making)


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> ...
> Sound Intensity and Sound Pressure are two very different things.
> 
> Also if you can't hear less than a 5 dBA variance, you'd be completely happy with consumer grade headphones and wouldn't be here on head-fi



This makes me feel good about my silver ears.


----------



## CYoung234

maxxevv said:


> I'm not sure about what branch of classical you listen to but if its some of the Nationalist era symphonies, yes the ZS5 probably sound good on them.
> 
> I tried a friend's ZS5 on a Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto played by  David Ostrakh under Eugene Ormandy as well as the Kachahturian Violin Concerto played by Julia Fisher, to my ears, the ZS5 doesn't cut it with its slightly overfilled bass.  I rank the CI880,  UF and the XE800 above it in that aspect.  I drops furthur behind when I play Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings,  an old 1976 recording by Academy of St Martins by the Fields, Sir Neville Marinner.  The bass of the ZS5 muffs out things somewhat.  That said, it didn't sound bad at all when I played the 1812 Overture.
> 
> ...



My classical tastes are varied, but colored by my being a trumpet player. Some of the things I have been throwing at these iems:  Shostakovich Sym. 1, CSO, Bernstein. If you want to hear what the CSO really sounded like in the late 1980's, this is the recording to listen to. Trumpet excerpts, Phillip Smith. One of my teachers, great musician. Martha Argerich, debut recital, DGG, particularly the Prokofiev Toccata, one of my favorites. We played a concert once where the Russian piano soloist broke the keyboard on a Bosendorfer during his encore while playing the Toccata.... Also, Martha Argerich, Prokofiev and Bartok PCs, Dutoit / Montreal SO. Prokofiev PC #3 is one of my favorite piano concertos. For rock, I have been using the Jezebels "The Brink".


----------



## Fox2twenty

CYoung234 said:


> My classical tastes are varied, but colored by my being a trumpet player. Some of the things I have been throwing at these iems:  Shostakovich Sym. 1, CSO, Bernstein. If you want to hear what the CSO really sounded like in the late 1980's, this is the recording to listen to. Trumpet excerpts, Phillip Smith. One of my teachers, great musician. Martha Argerich, debut recital, DGG, particularly the Prokofiev Toccata, one of my favorites. We played a concert once where the Russian piano soloist broke the keyboard on a Bosendorfer during his encore while playing the Toccata.... Also, Martha Argerich, Prokofiev and Bartok PCs, Dutoit / Montreal SO. Prokofiev PC #3 is one of my favorite piano concertos. For rock, I have been using the Jezebels "The Brink".



So.... How do the zs5s handle it?


----------



## Griffith

I don't mean to offend anyone but comparing the ZS5 to the ED9 is a bit silly. The ZS5 are a somewhat bright bassy earphone whereas the ED9 are much more pronounced V-shap with potent bass. They sound very different from each other.

The ZS5 are much more similar to the ZST and in some ways feel like a more refined version of the ZST.

The ED9 should, in my opinion, be mostly compared with the other bassy KZ earphones like the ZS1, ZS3 and ATR and compared to those models I would agree that the ED9 are one of the better ones of the bunch, if not the best.

In my opinion it's much more useful to compare similar earphones in terms of sound than simply earphones that only share similar prices.


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> I have not rolled cables. But I think @slaterlovesspam will know...



I use the silver plated upgrade cable on mine, but not because of sound but rather reduced microphonics and a softer feel. The silver cables don't have mics though.

I don't hear much difference if with the stock vs silver cable on the ZS5. If you want, I would do it purely for aesthetics or to correct annoyances such as microphonics.


----------



## snip3r77

Current offerings

How is the ranked?
ZS5, ES3, ZSE ?


----------



## Slater (Sep 12, 2017)

AplexApple said:


> What size tips should I get if i use the standard tips on the KZ ZST?
> Never tried foam tips before and plan on ordering these, but not sure what size to get.



5mm is the one you want (ie T500).

As far as what color and size, that's up to you. You are probably safest getting a medium (assuming that's what you typically wear with a silicone tip). It's all been recommended by a few people to also try 1 size smaller (so if you normally wear M, try a S too).

If you use that link I posted, 20 pairs sure is an awful lot if you're not even sure if you like foams (you mentioned you've never tried them before). The same guy has smaller quantities for great prices also. For example, (2) pair, (4) pair, (6 pair), etc. Just click on the link I posted above and then click his Store home and search for "foam" or "comply", and you'll see everything he has available.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> So in the process of tampering with the pair of ZS5s I was modding, I inadvertently made an addition change...
> 
> The screens on my perceived working pair were actually in direct contact with the BA nozzle - I'm inclined to think this is the source of a significant amount of the differences I perceived in modifying my ZS5s, as when I replaced the screens (after adding the foam) I didn't place them in direct contact with the BA.  A bit more testing and tampering with the screens to restore that contact leaves me pretty convinced that this was the case.
> 
> *I'm not suggesting anyone take their screens out to check* - (remember it's a destructive process) - you should be able to see if this is the case through the screens just fine, I just never thought to check this pair because they sounded fine most of the time.



So screens in contact with the BA resulted in better or worse differences?


----------



## Slater (Sep 12, 2017)

randomnin said:


> This says we can't even hear 3dB differences.



That was just a random example I pulled out of my bum. I was trying to demonstrate that you can make changes as precise and minute as you want to very specific (and multiple) frequencies, something not possible with regular "physical tuning" such as to the shell, earpads, or driver.

And yes, you most certainly can hear frequency changes less than 3dB. I often tweak my stuff with the custom EQ profiles in Rockbox, creating custom profiles for a number of headphones and IEMs. I can hear immediate differences in as little as 0.5dB. And I don't have particularly sensitive hearing (I have tinnitus and mild hearing loss).

3dB is a huge change in terms of EQ - I think I only have 1 headphone with changes that large. Most are changed much less than that (either boosted or cut).

If you have a device (DAP, phone, computer with music program such as foobar) with a multi-band EQ (not generic pre-made ones such as "Rock"/"Pop"/etc), play around with it yourself. It's fun and you learn a lot in training your ears as to what the different frequency bands are and how they affect the overall sound.


----------



## vector84

slaterlovesspam said:


> So screens in contact with the BA resulted in better or worse differences?


I definitely don't like the sound of the screens in contact with the BA.

I'm not really sure I'd be able to notice it if I hadn't been conditioned - my broken pair accentuated the effect prominently (painfully even) and I have another un-modded working pair to A/B with - and upon doing so it stands out as some sort of low level distortion, not really sure I could classify it more than that other than to say that it sounds slightly less clean.


----------



## CYoung234

Fox2twenty said:


> So.... How do the zs5s handle it?


Oh, yeah, ran out of time earlier to post sound impressions.

Mixed bag overall. I need to compare some of these pieces using the UF and the E-MI's. The Prokofiev Toccata got a little muddy, but I have not listened to this on the other two. The trumpet excerpts sounded very good, as did the Shostakovich 1. The Prokofiev PC#3 sounded a little thin. The Jezebels sounded a little muddy as well. So, for some things, the ZS5 really shined.


----------



## Fox2twenty

CYoung234 said:


> Oh, yeah, ran out of time earlier to post sound impressions.
> 
> Mixed bag overall. I need to compare some of these pieces using the UF and the E-MI's. The Prokofiev Toccata got a little muddy, but I have not listened to this on the other two. The trumpet excerpts sounded very good, as did the Shostakovich 1. The Prokofiev PC#3 sounded a little thin. The Jezebels sounded a little muddy as well. So, for some things, the ZS5 really shined.



Sounds legit. I think the Zs5 sounds great with strings, guitars, and other instruments, but can seem a little bit congested on busy music.


----------



## Fox2twenty

The ES3s are pretty good for electronica, like Glitch Mob. Definitely a little bit more bass than ZS5.


----------



## Selenium

I think we all want to see a ES3/ZST shootout! Is gearbest still doing the $5.99 flash sale thingy?


----------



## tworule

HungryPanda said:


> For this ZS5 vs ES3....... ES3 wins


I was thinking es3 too. But bluetooth seems convenient. although not KZ, anyone has opinion about Meizu ep52 bluetooth sports headset? it is newly released


----------



## tworule

Fox2twenty said:


> Just threw the T400s on the ES3.. It's an improvement.


which t400 for e3? I use medium tips mostly.


----------



## tworule

Viber said:


> Weird, i see the black color is in stock.
> QY11 should be very good too and even more suited for sports.


I live in Turkey. Gearbest only has stocks in USA and Europe warehouse. neither ships to Turkey. but thanks for your reply. I am also looking at ep52 from meizu. it is released newly and ep51 is highly praised. so for convenience; thinking of getting an meizu ep52 for sports and es3 for general usage.


----------



## Slater (Sep 13, 2017)

tworule said:


> I was thinking es3 too. But bluetooth seems convenient. although not KZ, anyone has opinion about Meizu ep52 bluetooth sports headset? it is newly released



With the KZ bluetooth cable, you'd have the best of both worlds - good sound, the option to run wired or wireless, and your choice between any of your favorite KZs that use detachable cables.

I have some dedicated bluetooth earphones that sit and gather dust now because the ZST with bluetooth cable sounds so good.

I like the look of the EP62, but man at over $60 for it you can get 5 pairs of KZs with bluetooth cables for the same money.


----------



## Vidal

slaterlovesspam said:


> I like the look of the EP62, but man at over $60 for it you can get 5 pairs of KZs with bluetooth cables for the same money.



Have to agree with this, no point in buying a fixed bluetooth earphone when you can buy a cable and pair it with multiple earphones. I still have a **** MMCX cable but would be interested in a better version.


----------



## Keller2

tworule said:


> I was thinking es3 too. But bluetooth seems convenient. although not KZ, anyone has opinion about Meizu ep52 bluetooth sports headset? it is newly released


The ZST bluetooth cable works with ES3.


----------



## -sandro-

slaterlovesspam said:


> Agreed - I'm honestly not really a fan of perfectly flat-as-a-board sound signature (at least not the music I listen to). Like you said, it always come across as boring and no energy. It's great for audio mixing/engineering though, but not the sound I want when I'm kicked back having fun.
> 
> I assume you looked around on Vidal's site? He has an extensive review of most KZs, and does a very straightforward job of listing the different bands.
> 
> ...



I'm not a fan of the EQ not because it's evil but because I was never able to get anything good out of it. When I try something it starts to sound weird (weired that something is already). Isn't right to think that if something is just not for you in general you just can't fix it?


----------



## tworule

slaterlovesspam said:


> With the KZ bluetooth cable, you'd have the best of both worlds - good sound, the option to run wired or wireless, and your choice between any of your favorite KZs that use detachable cables.
> 
> I have some dedicated bluetooth earphones that sit and gather dust now because the ZST with bluetooth cable sounds so good.
> 
> I like the look of the EP62, but man at over $60 for it you can get 5 pairs of KZs with bluetooth cables for the same money.





slaterlovesspam said:


> With the KZ bluetooth cable, you'd have the best of both worlds - good sound, the option to run wired or wireless, and your choice between any of your favorite KZs that use detachable cables.
> 
> I have some dedicated bluetooth earphones that sit and gather dust now because the ZST with bluetooth cable sounds so good.
> 
> I like the look of the EP62, but man at over $60 for it you can get 5 pairs of KZs with bluetooth cables for the same money.


thanks for the insight. which comply foams for es3? I use medium silicons for most of my iems


----------



## themindfreak

-sandro- said:


> Oh wait, if the zse has the same basic signature I definitely will not try them. With kz seems like you either get a dark/bassy sound or a Vshaped sound. No real balanced?


Hmm from my knowledge there isnt really any balanced sounding KZ,most of them tend to have that recession in the mids. The closest to balanced I believe would be ATE. ZSE has more recessed mids than the ATE if I recall correctly.


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 13, 2017)

KZ ZS6 10 hrs run-in impression (user from HK)
1. Cable fits well with the earphone, unlike KZ ZS5
2. Wider soundstage
3. 15 ohms, easier to drive
4. Bass: deep
5. Mid: no more laid back
6. Treble: Not sweet, but not cold or itchy, sounds natural
7. A little bit lost of control, congested when there are many instruments


I play the music with lg v20 (ESS ES9218 DAC) in volume:40/75. Will try the combo with mojo later.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

tamsaiming2003 said:


> KZ ZS6 10 hrs run-in impression (user from HK)
> 1. Cable fits well with the earphone, unlike KZ ZS5
> 2. Wider soundstage
> 3. 15 ohms, easier to drive
> ...


----------



## esfrost

How do you get the exclusive packaging? Or an even better question, how did you get it so "fast"?


----------



## Holypal

tamsaiming2003 said:


>



This is from taobao with the China package, right?  I guess the international package will be much smaller and less accessories.


----------



## chinmie

themindfreak said:


> Hmm from my knowledge there isnt really any balanced sounding KZ,most of them tend to have that recession in the mids. The closest to balanced I believe would be ATE. ZSE has more recessed mids than the ATE if I recall correctly.



the ATR is the most balanced sounding to me


----------



## tamsaiming2003

esfrost said:


> How do you get the exclusive packaging? Or an even better question, how did you get it so "fast"?


I am in HK


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Holypal said:


> This is from taobao with the China package, right?  I guess the international package will be much smaller and less accessories.


Yes


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Buying from taobao/HK dealer is way cheaper than buying from foreign websites(e.g. amazon)


----------



## tamsaiming2003

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Buying from taobao/HK dealer is way cheaper than buying from foreign websites(e.g. amazon)


RMB starting from 248 with shop provided coupon, free shipping to HK


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 13, 2017)

See screenshot below


----------



## tamsaiming2003




----------



## vladstef

@tamsaiming2003 

Some close up photos of the nozzle and seam where metals connect would be awesome. Also, could you check for isolation, no need to be too precise, if it's bad it will be noticeable in a room even. Congrats on your ZS6!


----------



## tamsaiming2003

vladstef said:


> @tamsaiming2003
> 
> Some close up photos of the nozzle and seam where metals connect would be awesome. Also, could you check for isolation, no need to be too precise, if it's bad it will be noticeable in a room even. Congrats on your ZS6!



Isolation from the room noise ia fair.


----------



## Cya|\|

tamsaiming2003 said:


> 5. Mid: no more laid back



Do the more present mids make the highs more neutral and less bright than the zs5?


----------



## tamsaiming2003

The package I have are standard cable with mic, Bluetooth cable, sliver cable and first press copper cable for free.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Cya|\| said:


> Do the more present mids make the highs more neutral and less bright than the zs5?


Yes, I am playing "Think of me" as a reference


----------



## tamsaiming2003

The soundstage is the major difference from kz zs5. Impressive.


----------



## vladstef

tamsaiming2003 said:


> The soundstage is the major difference from kz zs5. Impressive.



Thanks for additional photos.
We kinda predicted a better soundstage because of the same drivers with more open design. Still, nice to have some sort of confirmation of that.
Copper cable looks fantastic but I don't think that it will remain over time, it is probably going to become very green.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

vladstef said:


> Thanks for additional photos.
> We kinda predicted a better soundstage because of the same drivers with more open design. Still, nice to have some sort of confirmation of that.
> Copper cable looks fantastic but I don't think that it will remain over time, it is probably going to become very green.


What do you mean by very green? You mean color fading of the cable?


----------



## vladstef (Sep 13, 2017)

tamsaiming2003 said:


> What do you mean by very green? You mean color fading of the cable?



Cables with copper (and many have copper in different amounts) generally need to be free of oxygen, otherwise copper turns green over time. I don't think that KZ could make it oxygen free and price it normally...
Here is an example:


----------



## tamsaiming2003

vladstef said:


> Cables with copper (and many have copper in different amounts) generally need to be free of oxygen, otherwise copper turns green over time. I don't think that KZ could make it oxygen free and price it normally...
> Here is an example:



I see, mine should not be ofc cable, haha


----------



## snip3r77

tamsaiming2003 said:


>


Pls review thanks


----------



## snip3r77

tamsaiming2003 said:


> The soundstage is the major difference from kz zs5. Impressive.


Zs5 is already pretty wide


----------



## djmakemynight

tamsaiming2003 said:


> KZ ZS6 10 hrs run-in impression (user from HK)
> 1. Cable fits well with the earphone, unlike KZ ZS5
> 2. Wider soundstage
> 3. 15 ohms, easier to drive
> ...



Is there any sound leakage? Like does music play out of the grills on the outside too?

Thanks for the share.


----------



## loomisjohnson

themindfreak said:


> Hmm from my knowledge there isnt really any balanced sounding KZ,most of them tend to have that recession in the mids. The closest to balanced I believe would be ATE. ZSE has more recessed mids than the ATE if I recall correctly.


the megacheap ed2r actually is nicely balanced (in the sense of not having any part of the frequency emphasized); likewise the hds1


----------



## tamsaiming2003

snip3r77 said:


> Pls review thanks


May do when full run-in for around 200 hours


----------



## tamsaiming2003

djmakemynight said:


> Is there any sound leakage? Like does music play out of the grills on the outside too?
> 
> Thanks for the share.


No, hopefully


----------



## the Ortherion

Can someone give me some help on fixing the bloody tips to the nozzles? Mine keep falling in my ears. Can't believe that a simple thing like a ribbon around the nozzle was "forgotten". Otherwise they sound really impressive for the price. Definitely the best bang for the buck i've ever had in audio gear.


----------



## themindfreak

loomisjohnson said:


> the megacheap ed2r actually is nicely balanced (in the sense of not having any part of the frequency emphasized); likewise the hds1


I'll keep that in mind, most of my friends tend to prefer balanced sounding type earphones. Thanks for the intro!


----------



## Mellowship

the Ortherion said:


> Can someone give me some help on fixing the bloody tips to the nozzles? Mine keep falling in my ears. Can't believe that a simple thing like a ribbon around the nozzle was "forgotten". Otherwise they sound really impressive for the price. Definitely the best bang for the buck i've ever had in audio gear.


In what IEM? And with the original tips?

First, clean the nozzles and the inside of the tips with rubbing alcohol and a q-tip and let it dry. It should take away any grease residues that have accumulated within the nozzle-tip connection surface. You can also wash the tips with water and neutral soap, don't forget to rinse and dry thoroughly. 

If this doesn't help, you should get tips with a narrower inner diameter. For instance, if you use t400-type, you should go for t-200.


----------



## snip3r77

tamsaiming2003 said:


> May do when full run-in for around 200 hours


Preliminary review pls. I don't believe in 200 hours run in


----------



## vladstef

the Ortherion said:


> Can someone give me some help on fixing the bloody tips to the nozzles? Mine keep falling in my ears. Can't believe that a simple thing like a ribbon around the nozzle was "forgotten". Otherwise they sound really impressive for the price. Definitely the best bang for the buck i've ever had in audio gear.



This is probably for ZS5. With regular tips, you could try and find something to apply more pressure when it's on the nozzle already. Short term solution would be to use a sticky clear tape and wrap it around the tip while trying to reduce the diameter of the tube. This wears out over time.
Better option would be to get foam earplugs, cut a small section, make a small hole and put it over the tube of the tip.
The easiest and probably the best option might be to use a small drop of super glue on the nozzle of ZS5. Just be careful to put a very small drop so that you can remove the tip sometimes in the future by pulling hard, also, don't let the glue get on the mesh or in the nozzle.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 13, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Cables with copper (and many have copper in different amounts) generally need to be free of oxygen, otherwise copper turns green over time. I don't think that KZ could make it oxygen free and price it normally...
> Here is an example:


Oxygen free still turns green over time, especially if in the common PVC jacket used on moderate priced products. Oxygen free is part of the manufacturing process but the surface is as exposed as any other copper unless it's a litz type of wire. Any normally stranded cable has some exposure to oxygen. It's one reason makers will tin or plate the wires.


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 13, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Preliminary review pls. I don't believe in 200 hours run in


We will see. My reference headphone is Sony MDR-Z1R. So I am quite demanding on sound quality. Review, on KZ ZS6 would be critical.


----------



## HiFiChris

Keller2 said:


> #TFZGate
> 
> 
> To be fair i don't know who you'd sell it to considering it's a $4 headphone
> ...



Thanks, now I _finally _know why that design appeared so familiar. Took me very long to realise that they adapted TFZ's design for those models.


----------



## Fox2twenty

tworule said:


> which t400 for e3? I use medium tips mostly.


I think medium


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


> The soundstage is the major difference from kz zs5. Impressive.


I already liked the zs5 Soundstage.. This is beautiful news man. Sounds like Zs6 is a hit.


----------



## Fox2twenty

snip3r77 said:


> Zs5 is already pretty wide


That's what I'm thinking.


----------



## tworule

Fox2twenty said:


> I think medium


The inner diameter? Sorry to bother again. Ali express has 3 different sizes


----------



## Fox2twenty

tworule said:


> The inner diameter? Sorry to bother again. Ali express has 3 different sizes


I know. I think the T400s are 4mm. I use the stock T400 that came with my Phaiser bhs-730, I'm pretty sure it is a medium.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> I know. I think the T400s are 4mm. I use the stock T400 that came with my Phaiser bhs-730, I'm pretty sure it is a medium.


I use it for both zs5 and ES3.


----------



## CoiL

Viber said:


> It's also not accurate to say that it's only got to do with the mastering of the track, it also depends on the character of the track.


Well, different setups can sound different too. 
I don`t understand what You mean about character of the track? Mastering is everything about HQ music 
But I`ll leave it as it is and accept Your humble opinion (with addition) - different ears (source gear, gear matchup and music genre) hear different things.


----------



## Slater

tamsaiming2003 said:


> The soundstage is the major difference from kz zs5. Impressive.



This tells me that us modders can simply make additional vents in the ZS5 (add holes, add a grille, whatever) and get a similar improvement.

I didn't say exactly the same; I said similar.


----------



## peskypesky

tamsaiming2003 said:


> My reference headphone is Sony MDR-Z1R


holy moly


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> This tells me that us modders can simply make additional vents in the ZS5 (add holes, add a grille, whatever) and get a similar improvement.
> 
> I didn't say exactly the same; I said similar.


So I should drill my ZS5s?


----------



## Slater

tamsaiming2003 said:


> We will see. My reference headphone is Sony MDR-Z1R. So I am quite demanding on sound quality. Review, on KZ ZS6 would be critical.



Why are you even considering a $30 budget IEM, when you will be using a $2300 TOTL headphone as a benchmark?


----------



## AudioAw2015

tamsaiming2003 said:


> We will see. My reference headphone is Sony MDR-Z1R. So I am quite demanding on sound quality. Review, on KZ ZS6 would be critical.



I bet you love the KZ house sound since the Z1R shares a similar signature.


----------



## groucho69 (Sep 13, 2017)

-sandro- said:


> I'm not a fan of the EQ not because it's evil but because I was never able to get anything good out of it. When I try something it starts to sound weird (weired that something is already). Isn't right to think that if something is just not for you in general you just can't fix it?



When I use foobar I first play a song at zero then at auto level. Try that and see if you notice anything.


----------



## Slater (Sep 13, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> So I should drill my ZS5s?



I would encourage most people to wait for other modders to try it, test it, and come up with the best method(s).

Of course if you're the risk-taking, trail blazer type, by all means try some things out. The results could be great or they could be terrible - you could even damage your ZS5. That's all part of the fun and gamble with modding.

I'd recommend having (2) identical pairs (and only modding 1), so you have a reference to A/B test with. And you'll probably also want a ZS6, so you can tell if you're making progress in the right direction or not.

If I do it, it will end up something like this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1106#post-13350513
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1108#post-13353620


----------



## Arkady Duntov

Vidal said:


> Have to agree with this, no point in buying a fixed bluetooth earphone when you can buy a cable and pair it with multiple earphones. I still have a **** MMCX cable but would be interested in a better version.



Is it possible that some fixed-bluetooth earphones have better decoders than some cables?


----------



## CoiL

chinmie said:


> the ATR is the most balanced sounding to me


ATR and ATE 5yh gen to me also.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> I would encourage most people to wait for other modders to try it, test it, and come up with the best method(s).
> 
> Of course if you're the risk-taking, trail blazer type, by all means try some things out. The results could be great or they could be terrible - you could even damage your ZS5. That's all part of the fun and gamble with modding.
> 
> ...



Good points.. I currently enjoy it too much to risk it. Lol.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Why are you even considering a $30 budget IEM, when you will be using a $2300 TOTL headphone as a benchmark?


KZ IS JUST THAT GOOD


----------



## Slater

Arkady Duntov said:


> Is it possible that some fixed-bluetooth earphones have better decoders than some cables?



Sure, some use BT 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, aptX vs no aptX, etc. Then there's multiple bluetooth chip manufacturers...


----------



## tworule

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sure, some use BT 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, aptX vs no aptX, etc. Then there's multiple bluetooth chip manufacturers...


https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headp...utm_medium=shareasale&utm_campaign=shareasale

This?


----------



## Slater

tworule said:


> https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headp...utm_medium=shareasale&utm_campaign=shareasale
> 
> This?



Sorry, I have no experience with those dual earpod style of earphones. I'm personally skeptical of them for a number of reasons. There's probably some decent ones out there though.


----------



## tworule

.


----------



## tworule

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sorry, I have no experience with those dual earpod style of earphones. I'm personally skeptical of them for a number of reasons. There's probably some decent ones out there though.


What are Your comcerns?


----------



## Slater

tworule said:


> What are Your comcerns?



The same concerns with any (Bluetooth/headphone) technology - poor battery life, bad sound, skipping/static, Bluetooth disconnect problems, build quality issues, sensitivity to radio interference, fitment issues, too heavy...for starters.


----------



## Skullophile

It's pretty hard to break those ZS5's, remember when I snipped internal two wires and that didn't even affect them.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> The same concerns with any (Bluetooth/headphone) technology - poor battery life, bad sound, skipping/static, Bluetooth disconnect problems, build quality issues, sensitivity to radio interference, fitment issues, too heavy...for starters.



KZ cables are 4.1?


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> KZ cables are 4.1?



Only the early ones (which had problems and should be avoided). The current ones are 4.2, so those are the ones you want.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Only the early ones (which had problems and should be avoided). The current ones are 4.2, so those are the ones you want.


Wow, already 4.2? That's pretty cool.


----------



## Aevum

They are nice but still have compression artifacting, dont expect the quality you get out of the wired set.


----------



## Slater

Aevum said:


> They are nice but still have compression artifacting, dont expect the quality you get out of the wired set.



Yeah. They've come a longer way from Bluetooth 1.2 and 2.x though! That technology was horrible in comparison.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I highly recommend the album Shatter Me by Lindsey Stirling for the KZ house sound..


----------



## Skullophile

I'd probably shatter her!


----------



## vladstef

Fox2twenty said:


> I highly recommend the album Shatter Me by Lindsey Stirling for the KZ house sound..



I gave my ZS5 away because it sounded shrill and tiny with violins and vocals, soundstage was there but depth and energy were lacking. This is really surprising to see honestly, this kind of music is exactly where ZS5 shows its faults, at least for me. I always ended up picking music which had more bass so that I have something good to focus on and try not to hear the unnatural sound of the higher frequencies.


----------



## vector84

The commentary about violins and the ZS5 used to perplexed me too... I never liked the way they presented violins at all - it always sounded to me like the violins were strung up with a few viola strings - too heavy on the low end and too shrill by comparison on the high end.

That all changed when I resolved the screen contact issue and now I feel like they do an excellent job rendering violins - or my confirmation bias is incredibly strong


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> I gave my ZS5 away because it sounded shrill and tiny with violins and vocals, soundstage was there but depth and energy were lacking. This is really surprising to see honestly, this kind of music is exactly where ZS5 shows its faults, at least for me. I always ended up picking music which had more bass so that I have something good to focus on and try not to hear the unnatural sound of the higher frequencies.



This is shocking to me. Violin and guitar are very good on the ZS5.. To me anyway.


----------



## vladstef

Fox2twenty said:


> This is shocking to me. Violin and guitar are very good on the ZS5.. To me anyway.



There had to have been something wrong with my pair. The sine wave went straight through the middle with little shifting to the sides, so it was uniform on both sides...
Maybe it's just that people like the clarity and transparency of the high end on ZS5 and are less sensitive to tonal incorrectness.

Anyways, whenever I have to justify the sound that is coming out of any equipment, that's when I know it's time to move on. ZS5 did this from the beginning, I don't have much love left for it and it saddens me because I really wanted to keep them.
I also took a strong stance against ZS6 because of the design (and regret ever getting ZS5 for the same reason) so I will have to wait for ZS10, maybe this will be enough.


----------



## Podster (Sep 13, 2017)

Oh well, even though the AliEx seller has them advertised as the Newest 2017 release I got original ZS5's in gray now to go with my blue ones! Guess I should have held off a little longer and gone the Gearbest route. Still sound sweet especially on the S5, my Gray Ghost rig





Vlad, don't be so rough on Fox220 We all hear it a little differently and I happen to like Lindsey on my ZS5 as well, just listened to "My Immortal" moments ago by her on mine and loved it


----------



## peskypesky

I listen to a lot of jazz fusion with violin and it sounds great on my ZS5's.  (Ponty, Subramaniam, Urbaniak, Mahavishnu, etc)


----------



## Superluc (Sep 13, 2017)

Hi guys. I'm currently listen a pair of KZ ZSE with an ONN X5-Topping NX2 combo and i like how it sound, but the cable noise is too much and with some tracks the ZSE sound more congested than some other KZ, like ZS5 and ZS3, which i also have. EQ have good impact on them, if you try to pull out some details.
I have also tried the ZSE with a Schiit Fulla 2, but the result sound too warm for me, like they are very sensitive to the source.

Hope that the ZS6 have good balance and more natural sound than ZS5, i'm very hyped.



tamsaiming2003 said:


> The package I have are standard cable with mic, Bluetooth cable, sliver cable and first press copper cable for free.


The silver cable that was in your package is the standard upgrade cable for ZS3/5 or this newer for ZST/ED12 ?






It look so better than the older one...  you have try it with your ZS6 ?


----------



## Mellowship

Superluc said:


> Hi guys. I'm currently listen a pair of KZ ZSE with an ONN X5-Topping NX2 combo and i like how it sound, but the cable noise is too much and with some tracks the ZSE sound more congested than some other KZ, like ZS5 and ZS3, which i also have. EQ have good impact on them, if you try to pull out some details.
> I have also tried the ZSE with a Schiit Fulla 2, but the result sound too warm for me, like they are very sensitive to the source.
> 
> ...


My only impressions with the ZSE are with the FiiO x3ii and topping nx2. They sound so great with this amp... 
The cable noise is the only disadvantage...


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> The silver cable that was in your package is the standard upgrade cable for ZS3/5 or this newer for ZST/ED12 ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just received that cable a few days ago. A very nice cable!


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Superluc said:


> Hi guys. I'm currently listen a pair of KZ ZSE with an ONN X5-Topping NX2 combo and i like how it sound, but the cable noise is too much and with some tracks the ZSE sound more congested than some other KZ, like ZS5 and ZS3, which i also have. EQ have good impact on them, if you try to pull out some details.
> I have also tried the ZSE with a Schiit Fulla 2, but the result sound too warm for me, like they are very sensitive to the source.
> 
> Hope that the ZS6 have good balance and more natural sound than ZS5, i'm very hyped.
> ...



The one I have is still the ZS3 sliver cable. The Chinese seller actually prepare free bonus cable in copper or silver, depend on your taste. So, I like warm sounding, so I choose bonus copper cable.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

slaterlovesspam said:


> Why are you even considering a $30 budget IEM, when you will be using a $2300 TOTL headphone as a benchmark?



Because KZ ZS6 sounds never like a usd 30 earphone. Instead, as advertised, it targets the usd500 target. 

KZ ZS6 has very high cp value and the tonal balance similiar to my Sony MDR-Z1R. I mean warm sounding


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> I don`t understand what You mean about character of the track? Mastering is everything about HQ music
> .



There are beautifully mixed and mastered songs in genres such as Metal,Trance and Alternative which will sound less than stellar on some headphones\earphones. 
Blaming the music instead of the earphones themselves can only go so far.


----------



## Superluc

Thanks for the reply.



tamsaiming2003 said:


> The one I have is still the ZS3 sliver cable. The Chinese seller actually prepare free bonus cable in copper or silver, depend on your taste. So, I like warm sounding, so I choose bonus copper cable.


The copper cable can be buy separately ? I haven't find one on Aliexpress 



slaterlovesspam said:


> I just received that cable a few days ago. A very nice cable!


Work on ZS5 ? Let us know if it also work on the ZS6, when you get one.


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Because KZ ZS6 sounds never like a usd 30 earphone. Instead, as advertised, it targets the usd500 target.
> 
> KZ ZS6 has very high cp value and the tonal balance similiar to my Sony MDR-Z1R. I mean warm sounding



Woah. High praise.


----------



## snip3r77

Fox2twenty said:


> Woah. High praise.





tamsaiming2003 said:


> Because KZ ZS6 sounds never like a usd 30 earphone. Instead, as advertised, it targets the usd500 target.
> 
> KZ ZS6 has very high cp value and the tonal balance similiar to my Sony MDR-Z1R. I mean warm sounding



@1clearhead hype train Choo Choo


----------



## Fox2twenty

snip3r77 said:


> @1clearhead hype train Choo Choo


Lol  ALL ABOARD!


----------



## gwompki

To your point I own both the Sennheiser HD-6XX and Fostex TH-X00.  I don't own the ZS6 yet but the ZS5 has certainly been getting more playtime than either of the full sized sets this past month.  Here's why.  Some of the great low end and treble sparkle that the TH-X00 brings to the table are present in the ZS5.  However TH-X00 is not really known for its mids and if I want to listen to guitar driven rock I will typically pick up the HD-6XX.  But he HD-6XX doesn't bring the sub bass or have that sparkly treble.  The ZS5 really brings some of the strength of those two (mids not as much as lows and highs) headphones with the added benefit of a fairly wide soundstage.  They definitely aren't the most resolving and they do struggle at times with certain complex pieces.  However, they tick enough of the boxes for me that I have had many listening sessions of going back and forth with the Fostex and Sennheiser to ultimately end up with the ZS5.  To my ears and compared to my other gear they really are a great option.


----------



## Superluc

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Because KZ ZS6 sounds never like a usd 30 earphone. Instead, as advertised, it targets the usd500 target.
> 
> KZ ZS6 has very high cp value and the tonal balance similiar to my Sony MDR-Z1R. I mean warm sounding


----------



## Viber

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Because KZ ZS6 sounds never like a usd 30 earphone. Instead, as advertised, it targets the usd500 target.
> 
> KZ ZS6 has very high cp value and the tonal balance similiar to my Sony MDR-Z1R. I mean warm sounding



I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
I mean, there's a measuring stick for budget-bang for the buck iems and a different measuring stick for full sized 500$+ cans.

I'm very pleased with my ZS5 after modding them, they sound like 100$+ full sized cans and *that's amazing for a 20$ kit,* but should i really compare them with stuff like 300$ planars or something like that? come on now...  That's how bad reviews are born.


----------



## Fox2twenty

gwompki said:


> To your point I own both the Sennheiser HD-6XX and Fostex TH-X00.  I don't own the ZS6 yet but the ZS5 has certainly been getting more playtime than either of the full sized sets this past month.  Here's why.  Some of the great low end and treble sparkle that the TH-X00 brings to the table are present in the ZS5.  However TH-X00 is not really known for its mids and if I want to listen to guitar driven rock I will typically pick up the HD-6XX.  But he HD-6XX doesn't bring the sub bass or have that sparkly treble.  The ZS5 really brings some of the strength of those two (mids not as much as lows and highs) headphones with the added benefit of a fairly wide soundstage.  They definitely aren't the most resolving and they do struggle at times with certain complex pieces.  However, they tick enough of the boxes for me that I have had many listening sessions of going back and forth with the Fostex and Sennheiser to ultimately end up with the ZS5.  To my ears and compared to my other gear they really are a great option.



Just saying. It's possible that the Zs6 is worth a listen.


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 13, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> 
> The copper cable can be buy separately ? I haven't find one on AAliexpress



I don't think so as it is a free gift for the first press buyer. However, I heard from taobao seller that KZ ZS6 upgrade cable, yes for ZS6, is coming in October.


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 13, 2017)

Viber said:


> I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
> I mean, there's a measuring stick for budget-bang for the buck iems and a different measuring stick for full sized 500$+ cans.
> 
> 
> I'm very pleased with my ZS5 after modding them, they sound like 100$+ full sized cans and *that's amazing for a 20$ kit,* but should i really compare them with stuff like 300$ planars or something like that? come on now...  That's how bad reviews are born.



I never mention comparison. I say I am demanding on hifi. Don't think too much.

Plus, earphone is different from headphone. No comparisons can be done.


----------



## Superluc

tamsaiming2003 said:


> I don't think so as it is free gift for first press buyers. However, I heard from taobao seller that KZ ZS6 upgrade cable, yes for ZS6, is coming in October.


Thanks for the info. 

I'm european, so i sure receive the international package, if i place an order. Maybe i think about upgrade the cable next month. 

Ok guys...time to let some money fly away


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Another difference to ZS5, especially the hardware part, is (active) crossover finally!


----------



## gwompki

Not sure if that was sarcasm based on the emoji, but I agree 100%. Looking forward to getting them.


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 13, 2017)

the "real" colors of KZ ZS6


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Give u guys the "real" colors of KZ ZS6


I love the green


----------



## vladstef

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Another difference to ZS5, especially the hardware part, is (active) crossover finally!



Actually, this is very much debatable at the moment. KZ has never actually said anything about a real cross over circuit. There is a promo photo talking about 3 frequency divisions which could be anything. There are some electronic components on the back of DDs, but someone pointed out that these are the same as in ZS5. It isn't looking promising to be honest, especially showing us that both DDs cover at least 20-20kHz range.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Fox2twenty said:


> I love the green


Me too! Axtually at taobao, they advertised as budget Campfire Audio Andromeda, a.k.a. 仙男座


----------



## vladstef

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Me too! Axtually at taobao, they advertised as budget Campfire Audio Andromeda, a.k.a. 仙男座



Oh wow, they actually did it.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

vladstef said:


> Actually, this is very much debatable at the moment. KZ has never actually said anything about a real cross over circuit. There is a promo photo talking about 3 frequency divisions which could be anything. There are some electronic components on the back of DDs, but someone pointed out that these are the same as in ZS5. It isn't looking promising to be honest, especially showing us that both DDs cover at least 20-20kHz range.



No, KZ has.......but in simplified Chinese


----------



## tamsaiming2003

tamsaiming2003 said:


> No, KZ has.......but in simplified Chinese


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


>


So.. That says crossover?


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Fox2twenty said:


> So.. That says crossover?


Active crossover


----------



## Slater (Sep 13, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Work on ZS5 ? Let us know if it also work on the ZS6, when you get one.



You have to trim the plastic to make it work on the ZS5 and ZS6. Some members have even posted photos of their cables installed on ZS5. Since the ZS6 is identical around the plug, it will work the same.

I haven't had a chance to trim the plastic on mine, but that's specifically what I bought it for (the ZS5 and/or ZS6).


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Active crossover


Cool.. So with the dual dynamics and dual BAs, do you know how it is split up?


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Fox2twenty said:


> Cool.. So with the dual dynamics and dual BAs, do you know how it is split up?


Dynamics for bass (down to 7hz)
BA(mid+high or 2 high or 2 mid or midhigh+midhigh) no definitive answer


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Dynamics for bass (down to 7hz)
> BA(mid+high or 2 high or 2 mid or midhigh+midhigh) no definitive answer


Ah ha. So it could be a 50 50 split. Cool stuff.


----------



## maxxevv

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Active crossover



Its "electronic crossover technology" if translated literally.  Not quite 'Active' if taken at face value.


----------



## Selenium

Are there any discount codes for the ZS6 on Ali?


----------



## maxxevv

Look out for Gearbest sales instead. 

Aliexpress sales happen less frequently and usually other than seller specific coupons,  there are no discount codes.   Next big sale would probably be 11th November.  The biggest online sale on Earth.  There would be discount coupons to be won / purchased during the run-up to the date. Usually between 2 weeks to 1 month before the date.


----------



## Arnel

Holypal said:


> This is from taobao with the China package, right?  I guess the international package will be much smaller and less accessories.


Hello, i have a broken ZS5 because of cheap plastic construction, is the ZS6 full metal or only parts are metal?


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Arnel said:


> Hello, i have a broken ZS5 because of cheap plastic construction, is the ZS6 full metal or only parts are metal?


aluminium alloy


----------



## tamsaiming2003

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Dynamics for bass (down to 7hz)
> BA(mid+high or 2 high or 2 mid or midhigh+midhigh) no definitive answer


Checked it again, two low(dynamic), high(1ba), mid-high(1ba)


----------



## randomnin

Looks like I'll have to green-light this budget dollaricide in my wallet. Though metal casing is not a good idea IMHO. Sturdy plastics would have probably been less cold, lighter and more comfortable.


----------



## Slater

Arnel said:


> Hello, i have a broken ZS5 because of cheap plastic construction, is the ZS6 full metal or only parts are metal?



How on earth did it break out of curiosity? 70% of IEMs made have plastic construction.


----------



## Slater

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Checked it again, two low(dynamic), high(1ba), mid-high(1ba)



For what? ZS5 v1, ZS5 v2, or ZS6?


----------



## Slater

tamsaiming2003 said:


> the "real" colors of KZ ZS6



Is it just me, or is that a small child's hand? Because those ZS6 look like they're as big as golf balls in that person's hand lol


----------



## tamsaiming2003

slaterlovesspam said:


> Is it just me, or is that a small child's hand? Because those ZS6 look like they're as big as golf balls in that person's hand lol


Haha, just how Chinese seller photographs in a way that it looks big


----------



## tamsaiming2003

slaterlovesspam said:


> For what? ZS5 v1, ZS5 v2, or ZS6?


KZ ZS6. I never heard of ZS5 v2


----------



## maxxevv

slaterlovesspam said:


> Is it just me, or is that a small child's hand? Because those ZS6 look like they're as big as golf balls in that person's hand lol



Look closely at the shadows and you'll see why ...  

Its just a badly done photoshop superimpose, improperly scaled.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

One ammendment to my free bonus first press cable. It is an ofc cable.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

And the seller say OCC cable is coming for KZ ZS6. (Asks me for promotion.)


----------



## Slater

tamsaiming2003 said:


> KZ ZS6. I never heard of ZS5 v2



Got it.

The ZS6 has (2) super high-frequency BAs so does the ZS5 v2.

The ZS5 v1 has (1) high-frequency and (1) super high-frequency BA.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

tamsaiming2003 said:


> And the seller say OCC cable is coming for KZ ZS6. (Asks me for promotion.)


----------



## tamsaiming2003

slaterlovesspam said:


> Got it.
> 
> The ZS6 has (2) super high-frequency BAs so does the ZS5 v2.
> 
> The ZS5 v1 has (1) high-frequency and (1) super high-frequency BA.


Maybe I am too new in this thread. But as far as I know KZ sells 8 drivers ZS5 like the ZS6 in China market.


----------



## randomnin (Sep 14, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> The ZS6 has (2) super high-frequency BAs so does the ZS5 v2.  The ZS5 v1 has (1) high-frequency and (1) super high-frequency BA.


Wait, wasn't the main difference of the revisions in the position of one of the BAs?



tamsaiming2003 said:


>


Off-topic, but wow, Chinese communication takes little space. Though how you remember 3k+ letters, their pronunciations and meanings, is beyond me. Not even talking about remembering the correct way to write them :S


----------



## Slater (Sep 14, 2017)

tamsaiming2003 said:


> I never heard of ZS5 v2



Technically it's not really called the ZS5 v2. That's just how we refer to it around here so we all know which revision of the ZS5 we're talking about.

BOTH versions are "ZS5". KZ quietly made changes to the design (as they often do), but kept the model name the same. The only way to know which version someone has is to look under the screen in the nozzle and look for (1) or (2) BA drivers in the nozzle. If you have (1) BA in the nozzle, you have the original version of the ZS5 (ie ZS5 v1). If you have (2) BA drivers in the nozzle, you have the latest release of the ZS5 (ie ZS5 v2).




randomnin said:


> Wait, wasn't the main difference of the revisions in the position of one of the BAs?



Correct - in ZS5 v1, (1) BA driver was in the body with the 2xDynamic drivers (ultra-high freq), and (1) BA was in the nozzle (high freq).

In ZS5 v2, they changed to (2) BA drivers (ultra-high freq), getting rid of the high-freq BA altogether. They also moved both of the BA drivers to the nozzle.

The ZS6 is set up just like the ZS5 v2. The main difference is the aluminum body and the open vents on the face of the shell. They are also available in colors different than the ZS5 (ZS5  = blue/grey, ZS6 = red/green/black)




tamsaiming2003 said:


> Maybe I am too new in this thread. But as far as I know KZ sells 8 drivers ZS5 like the ZS6 in China market.



KZ has a number of IEMs - single dynamics, 2xDynamics, single hybrids (DD+BA), and multi-driver hybrids (2DD+2BA at the current moment).

The current multi-drivers (2DD+2BA) models are the ZS5 (of which they have 2 revisions of as outlined above), and the ZS6.

They are also releasing a 5-driver model called the ZS10 in the next few months. That model USED to be called the "ZSR Pro", but they have dropped that name in favor of "ZS10". The exact specs and configuration are secret at this point. The only thing currently known about them is the name (ZS10), and the fact that they'll have 5 drivers per side.

To add more confusion to the mix, they WILL BE using the "ZSR" model name, but for a completely different IEM (due to be released next month if I remember correctly). Nothing is currently known about that IEM either, other than the name and general release timeframe.

Does that help clear things up?


----------



## Taters00

This thread has really got me spending a lot more than I'd wanted on IEMs... have the ZS3 and ATE right now and really tempted to get the ZS5 too since it's only 16 bucks on GearBest rn...


----------



## Slater

Taters00 said:


> This thread has really got me spending a lot more than I'd wanted on IEMs... have the ZS3 and ATE right now and really tempted to get the ZS5 too since it's only 16 bucks on GearBest rn...



Welcome to the addiction haha


----------



## maxxevv (Sep 14, 2017)

randomnin said:


> Off-topic, but wow, Chinese communication takes little space. Though how you remember 3k+ letters, their pronunciations and meanings, is beyond me. Not even talking about remembering the correct way to write them :S



Then you've not encountered chinese 4 character idioms. The can have multi-page meanings with just 4 characters,  from the language user being expected to have memorised them and their back stories. 

In fact the complete tenets of Confucianism (which really can only be explained fully in multi-volume text) can be distilled into 8 characters:  忠孝仁义, 礼义廉耻

Just and example of how profound the language can be even for native speakers.


----------



## maxxevv

slaterlovesspam said:


> Welcome to the addiction haha



 ....  Good thing I'm only still at 01.


----------



## randomnin

slaterlovesspam said:


> Technically it's not really called the ZS5 v2. That's just how we refer to it around here so we all know which revision of the ZS5 we're talking about.
> 
> BOTH versions are "ZS5". KZ quietly made changes to the design (as they often do), but kept the model name the same. The only way to know which version someone has is to look under the screen in the nozzle and look for (1) or (2) BA drivers in the nozzle. If you have (1) BA in the nozzle, you have the original version of the ZS5 (ie ZS5 v1). If you have (2) BA drivers in the nozzle, you have the latest release of the ZS5 (ie ZS5 v2).
> 
> ...


Yes, that makes things very clear. Too clear  And also makes me want to postpone the ZS6 purchase, if the next two models come out soon enough.


----------



## Holypal

Arnel said:


> Hello, i have a broken ZS5 because of cheap plastic construction, is the ZS6 full metal or only parts are metal?



The ZS6's shell is metal. Inside and connectors have some plastic. Hi


----------



## vector84 (Sep 14, 2017)

Random stray thought: Viber modded ZS5 and ES3 gave me nearly *identical* measurements other than +3 dB across 20-1,000Hz from the DD venting setup.

They didn't sound the same to me... but it's pretty hard to judge with only one working sample rather than a pair.
(after much sample taking, besides the glue/vent issue, one of my ES3 has a defective BA with very similar characteristics to my broken ZS5 sample)


I must have done something pretty awful in a past life or something... because my Chi-Fi karma is apparently downright awful.


----------



## cirodts

Zs5 "1" zs5 "2" no one still managed to compare the sound quality between the 2?


----------



## themindfreak

randomnin said:


> Off-topic, but wow, Chinese communication takes little space. Though how you remember 3k+ letters, their pronunciations and meanings, is beyond me. Not even talking about remembering the correct way to write them :S


Ikr even in singapore not everyone can actually speak/write fluent and perfect chinese even if learned from scratch in school


----------



## vladstef

cirodts said:


> Zs5 "1" zs5 "2" no one still managed to compare the sound quality between the 2?



Nobody really wants to order another pair of ZS5 with a small chance of actually receiving 2nd version. Again, problem is that there is absolutely no way of telling what you'll be getting until you actually do. I bet that there will be people receiving ZS5 v1 even a year or two after it stopped being produced, there will be some stocks left all over the place...


----------



## cirodts

you are perfectly right, in fact it came to me in August and it is the old version,


----------



## randomnin

@tamsaiming2003 How's the isolation and sound leak at normal listening volume of the ZS6? Also, if it's easily done and if you're up for it - could you peek under the cover? I'd like to know how high is the Mt. Adhesiverest there


----------



## ricemanhk

Bummer, I love the soundstage on ZS5, now my fellow HK-er is making me think of getting ZS6...LOL
*clicks onward to taobao*


----------



## ricemanhk (Sep 14, 2017)

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=558593281958&toSite=main&sku_properties=122216547:856256359
@tamsaiming2003 this looks different to yours?  For non chinese speakers that's the high purity OFC silver plated cable

and HUHUHUH i just saw the reference on that page to ZS3/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 and ZST/ED12/ZSR/ES3

So perhaps ZS4 is the hybrid sequel to ZS3 and ZSR is the 10 driver unit?  the hype continues....


----------



## Mellowship

ricemanhk said:


> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=558593281958&toSite=main&sku_properties=122216547:856256359
> @tamsaiming2003 this looks different to yours?  For non chinese speakers that's the high purity OFC silver plated cable
> 
> and HUHUHUH i just saw the reference on that page to ZS3/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 and ZST/ED12/ZSR/ES3
> ...



I don't believe there is going to be a product with number "4" on its name... It comes from China...


----------



## Superluc (Sep 14, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> You have to trim the plastic to make it work on the ZS5 and ZS6. Some members have even posted photos of their cables installed on ZS5. Since the ZS6 is identical around the plug, it will work the same.


Well... tamsiming said that the cable fit better than with the ZS5, so maybe they are not that identical.


----------



## vladstef

They need to stop using this memory wire asap. Not only does it look cheap and ugly, it's the most crippling part of their IEMs in general.


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> They need to stop using this memory wire asap. Not only does it look cheap and ugly, it's the most crippling part of their IEMs in general.



A lot of people remove the memory wire. It comes out easily.


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> A lot of people remove the memory wire. It comes out easily.



I did it too. You know that this is no excuse. It compromises the durability, especially where the cable comes into contact with connector. Also, this part goes over ear and having an additional protective tube around cable is essential but you can't really keep this part if you want to remove the wire. There is also a question of aesthetics.

There is no reason to make excuses for KZ, regardless of the price of your product, this is a silly oversight that keeps reappearing on every new cable they release.


----------



## VinceHill24

Mellowship said:


> I don't believe there is going to be a product with number "4" on its name... It comes from China...


Not really. TFZ came out with Series 4 eventually after skipping it for a few of launches. TFZ is 100% Chinese. I don't think Chinese is that superstitious afterall, maybe just the older generations


----------



## VinceHill24

vladstef said:


> I did it too. You know that this is no excuse. It compromises the durability, especially where the cable comes into contact with connector. Also, this part goes over ear and having an additional protective tube around cable is essential but you can't really keep this part if you want to remove the wire. There is also a question of aesthetics.
> 
> There is no reason to make excuses for KZ, regardless of the price of your product, this is a silly oversight that keeps reappearing on every new cable they release.


Although i personally despise the memory wire cable, i think this is more of a preference thing rather than a poor quality or design by KZ. In fact it's quite to my surprise that a few of my friends actually prefer having the memory wire part. 

I find it annoying because it keeps bugging me for not comforming to my ear shape comfortably like a soft earguide but i guess it's probably me being a little OCD about it.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

randomnin said:


> @tamsaiming2003 How's the isolation and sound leak at normal listening volume of the ZS6? Also, if it's easily done and if you're up for it - could you peek under the cover? I'd like to know how high is the Mt. Adhesiverest there


No sound leakage. I upload a photo to answer the rest of your question. Photo credits to neoz Ching at hkepc form


----------



## tamsaiming2003

tamsaiming2003 said:


> No sound leakage. I upload a photo to answer the rest of your question. Photo credits to neoz Ching at hkepc form


----------



## tamsaiming2003

ricemanhk said:


> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=558593281958&toSite=main&sku_properties=122216547:856256359
> @tamsaiming2003 this looks different to yours?  For non chinese speakers that's the high purity OFC silver plated cable
> 
> and HUHUHUH i just saw the reference on that page to ZS3/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 and ZST/ED12/ZSR/ES3
> ...



True, the link shows a sliver cable


----------



## B9Scrambler

VinceHill24 said:


> Although i personally despise the memory wire cable, i think this is more of a preference thing rather than a poor quality or design by KZ. In fact it's quite to my surprise that a few of my friends actually prefer having the memory wire part.
> 
> I find it annoying because it keeps bugging me for not comforming to my ear shape comfortably like a soft earguide but i guess it's probably me being a little OCD about it.



I'm with those that like the wire because unlike most it actually retains the shape you set it to. Try doing this with most memory wire laden earphones. They'll straighten out and require constant readjustment. KZ's wire does not.


----------



## mochill

tamsaiming2003 said:


> True, the link shows a sliver cable


what a purdy cable ^_^


----------



## JonnyXDA

tamsaiming2003 said:


>


I guess that lays the active crossover discussion to bed then - I definitely see a surface mount component there.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

JonnyXDA said:


> I guess that lays the active crossover discussion to bed then - I definitely see a surface mount component there.


Can you explain a little bit?


----------



## maxxevv

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Can you explain a little bit?





tamsaiming2003 said:


>



The little rectangle that has the 2 red wires at each end connected to each end of it. That's a SMT (Surface Mount Technology)  component. Commonly used in microelectronic circuits. Its probably the electronic crossover or a portion of it.


----------



## JonnyXDA

tamsaiming2003 said:


> Can you explain a little bit?


Sorry, meant passive crossover - active crossovers are what I work with at my 2nd job.

Passive crossovers use resistors and other components to limit the frequencies being sent to each driver.


----------



## cirodts

the zs5 with the updated silver cable improves the sound?


----------



## tamsaiming2003

JonnyXDA said:


> Sorry, meant passive crossover - active crossovers are what I work with at my 2nd job.
> 
> Passive crossovers use resistors and other components to limit the frequencies being sent to each driver.



So, electronic crossover. Thx.


----------



## Ynot1 (Sep 14, 2017)

Capacitors are high pass filters like where bypass capacitors are used to send high frequency noise to ground.
Since DC power source is blocked by the bypass capacitor from the ground hence the filtering.

I think if the audio technica dac bypass technology gets general acceptance then I think active crossovers using software will make our interest more engaging.

As long as the signal remains zeros and ones, you can use software to walk on water.


----------



## trumpethead

maxxevv said:


> ....  Good thing I'm only still at 01.



not for long ha ha!


----------



## Ynot1 (Sep 14, 2017)

Here is a scenario using kz's bluetooth technology with and without audio technica's dac bypass.

The bluetooth prolly uses CSR chip/technology, which in theory mean we can have LTE inside KZ bluetooth, but I digress.
With CSR chip with its soc resources you can split the source signal into low, mid, and high channels using fir filters, software.
Then on one hand you can get three dacs of your choice to send to three amps of your choisce before sending the output to KZ drivers.
The dac bypass will save you three dacs and some consolidation of the amp resources.
Anyway if a company can put out LTE on a single chip, this can be done.


----------



## maxxevv

trumpethead said:


> not for long ha ha!



Quite frankly, it will remain so for sometime yet. Shall wait for stuff like the ZSR and ZS10 to come along and see if they are of the sound signature I'm looking for first. 
Though the ZS5 is a very capable earphone, but no, the sound signature isn't what I'm looking for in 'good' earphone. I've tried it and affirmed it with my friend's copy of the ZS5. Regardless of price as I won't be listening to it much if I don't like the sound signature.


----------



## Slater (Sep 14, 2017)

JonnyXDA said:


> I guess that lays the active crossover discussion to bed then - I definitely see a surface mount component there.



That same (or very similar) thing was there in the ZS5 (although it is *turned sideways* and stuffed down inside vertically, so you can't make out the chips except for 1 SMT resistor right in the middle).

When I asked about it, people said it was not a crossover, but rather were external solder pads for that DD driver. Now that I've seen the ZS6, with a very similar board, I am beginning to question whether that really *was* a crossover in the ZS5.


----------



## CYoung234

maxxevv said:


> Definitely for the UF and the CI880 !
> 
> Very capable earphones for they money they are asking for.
> 
> ...



You know, this is a very insightful post. It is funny, because the more I compare these three, the more I realize I need to keep them all. The ZS5 does so many things well, it really is an iem you can use to listen to pretty much anything with and be satisfied. I find myself reaching for it more than the others, especially if I will be listening to a wide variety of things. It is humorous that I have a set of ZSEs that have not even made it out of the package yet.... Maybe someday...


----------



## vladstef

slaterlovesspam said:


> That same (or very similar) thing was there in the ZS5 (although it is *turned sideways* and stuffed down inside vertically, so you can't make out the chips except for 1 SMT resistor right in the middle).
> 
> When I asked about it, people said it was not a crossover, but rather were external solder pads for that DD driver. Now that I've seen the ZS6, with a very similar board, I am beginning to question whether that really *was* a crossover in the ZS5.



It would be disappointing to find out that this was their attempt at crossover (with ZS5) because it has apparent phasing issues, nothing major but enough. I think that they used some components to equalize impedance of BAs and DDs, but I've never seen measurements and could be very wrong.


----------



## gobin

I'm in market for a pair of IEM now. Though I'm not sure if I should wait for the KZ ZS6 or buy the Kz zs5 now. The hype for Kz zs5 seems justified. But I'm also sold on the metal housing of the Kz zs6...

I've enjoyed the Kz Zs3 very much in the past. The fit and sound stage on them is amazing. I'm curious if the Kz zs5 would be considered a step-up (if so, how much?) or an alternative to the Kz Zs3.


----------



## MAntunes

So, how many KZ IEM are in production? 
ZS4, ZS10 and ZSR? When will they come out?
I'm looking to upgrade my Crazy Cello and don't know if I should wait or not, or if they're going to be better.

How about the new upgrade cable? Looks pretty good!


----------



## cirodts

MAntunes said:


> So, how many KZ IEM are in production?
> ZS4, ZS10 and ZSR? When will they come out?
> I'm looking to upgrade my Crazy Cello and don't know if I should wait or not, or if they're going to be better.
> 
> How about the new upgrade cable? Looks pretty good!


the zs5 with the updated silver cable improves the sound?


----------



## -sandro-

maxxevv said:


> Quite frankly, it will remain so for sometime yet. Shall wait for stuff like the ZSR and ZS10 to come along and see if they are of the sound signature I'm looking for first.
> Though the ZS5 is a very capable earphone, but no, the sound signature isn't what I'm looking for in 'good' earphone. I've tried it and affirmed it with my friend's copy of the ZS5. Regardless of price as I won't be listening to it much if I don't like the sound signature.


which is? for you


----------



## Mellowship

The ZS5 with the Topping NX2, such a great combination!


----------



## wastan

gobin said:


> I'm in market for a pair of IEM now. Though I'm not sure if I should wait for the KZ ZS6 or buy the Kz zs5 now. The hype for Kz zs5 seems justified. But I'm also sold on the metal housing of the Kz zs6...
> 
> I've enjoyed the Kz Zs3 very much in the past. The fit and sound stage on them is amazing. I'm curious if the Kz zs5 would be considered a step-up (if so, how much?) or an alternative to the Kz Zs3.



Step up across the board in sound quality, clearly worse fitting too.


----------



## snip3r77

Mellowship said:


> The ZS5 with the Topping NX2, such a great combination!



Comparing spintfits / spiral tips vs complies . Assuming both have good fit, are complies better?


----------



## Mellowship

snip3r77 said:


> Comparing spintfits / spiral tips vs complies . Assuming both have good fit, are complies better?


I cannot dissociate the fitting from the whole experience of using an IEM. For me, the foam tips offer the best fit for most of the earphones I own. With some exceptions (ZSE, moxpad, Radiopaq, w1pro), all my IEMs are fitted with foam tips. Most importantly, they provide comfort and they stay in place.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Mellowship said:


> I cannot dissociate the fitting from the whole experience of using an IEM. For me, the foam tips offer the best fit for most of the earphones I own. With some exceptions (ZSE, moxpad, Radiopaq, w1pro), all my IEMs are fitted with foam tips. Most importantly, they provide comfort and they stay in place.


Agree. Fit is king.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Bluesy goodness.. Listening on ES3 via s7edge.

The Dead Weather..


----------



## ridwan47

Where do I get replacement cable for ZS5 with Mic and remote? This is the only KZ cable I could find with Mic and it's for ZST. Will it work for ZS5?

http://s.aliexpress.com/YrIFFFj6


----------



## Fox2twenty

ridwan47 said:


> Where do I get replacement cable for ZS5 with Mic and remote? This is the only KZ cable I could find with Mic and it's for ZST. Will it work for ZS5?
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/YrIFFFj6


Gearbest also


----------



## ridwan47

Fox2twenty said:


> Gearbest also


Couldn't find there.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 14, 2017)

ridwan47 said:


> Where do I get replacement cable for ZS5 with Mic and remote? This is the only KZ cable I could find with Mic and it's for ZST. Will it work for ZS5?
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/YrIFFFj6


Should be able to find them listed as ZS3 cables - mics show up as a color option from a variety of sellers.

The ZS5 takes 0.75mm pins, so do most ZS3s, but the first run did use 0.78mm pins - most sellers on ali seem to specify the pin size explicitly though.


PS: I think technically the plug and y-splitter moldings might be different from the stock ZS5 cables?
Might be able to find the exact ZS5 cable on taobao or similar if you're neurotic about such things


----------



## Sum One

After reading a lot of folks saying ZS5 is good, I went ahead and purchase one from GB and it took more than 1.5 months (> 25 business days) to arrive. 

Finally got it last week and my first impression was "meeeh", I don't like how the highs are as vlads said "shrill and tiny". I tested it with acid jazz as it has highs mids and lows for me to test, the sax is actually hurting my ears. Tried other instrumentals and noticed synths, violins are hurting my ears. Tried rock, pop; mids are fine but highs are still pronounced. Thinking bass might be good as a lot of folks are saying, tried hip hop, r&b and i feel the bass is lacking. Tried EDMs (dubs and traps) and bass is not that great. I burned them in for 48 hrs and it's still the same. Tried different tips, comply, sony's silicon and hybrid, UE's silicon, ribbed/triple flange, and so far the sony's silicon are the one that sounded better for me, but it doesn't stay well, unless I don't move at all. I'll give it a few more days to test but I might end up just giving it away to my colleague who doesn't care much and think apple's earbuds are the best.

... I wonder if I got the v2 that you guys are talking about, wherein both BA are in the nozzle. 

People say removing the screen will sound better, but after you remove the screen, what material do you use to cover it?


----------



## ricemanhk

ZS3 and ZS5 cables are the same, barring the early 0.78mm ZS3 ones (but I doubt these are still available)


----------



## vector84

Sum One said:


> Tried different tips, comply, sony's silicon and hybrid, UE's silicon, ribbed/triple flange, and so far the sony's silicon are the one that sounded better for me, but it doesn't stay well, unless I don't move at all.


Is the memory wire still on there?  Unless it's really your thing... most users will tell you that stuff is downright evil.
(you can keep a short section of it as a strain relief)



Sum One said:


> ... I wonder if I got the v2 that you guys are talking about, wherein both BA are in the nozzle.
> 
> People say removing the screen will sound better, but after you remove the screen, what material do you use to cover it?


Under bright light you should be able to see one or two circles through the mesh screens in the nozzle.

As for taking the screens off - if you're extremely careful you might be able to refit them intact with some reshaping - but generally it's a destructive process since they're shaped and glued into place.

You can also get replacement screens off ali ("dust network steel" or some such) - not entirely sure what size you'll need though, as the screens mounted in the ZS5s are cupped along the edges (probably to avoid contact with the BAs... which doesn't always work) and I'm not sure that the adhesive rings will be thick enough to avoid the screen coming into contact with the BA (which to me at least sounds bad).  I'm still waiting for the size I thought would fit to be delivered, but I'm honestly not sure how right I was in that guess, so I'll hold off on commenting more until some screens show up for me to mess with.


If you meant other comments about just removing the screens... I think they meant they like to live dangerously... probably not a great idea for most people, for what should be obvious reasons.  (though I'll admit I'm using my ZS5s like that right now...)


----------



## vector84

ricemanhk said:


> ZS3 and ZS5 cables are the same, barring the early 0.78mm ZS3 ones (but I doubt these are still available)


Never know... I got one a couple weeks ago (early revision ZS3), complete with 0.78mm pins and a crushed sound tube and all


----------



## Sum One

vector84 said:


> Is the memory wire still on there?  Unless it's really your thing... most users will tell you that stuff is downright evil.
> (you can keep a short section of it as a strain relief)



I kept the memory wire, still undecided if I like it or not yet. 




> Under bright light you should be able to see one or two circles through the mesh screens in the nozzle.
> 
> As for taking the screens off - if you're extremely careful you might be able to refit them intact with some reshaping - but generally it's a destructive process since they're shaped and glued into place.
> 
> ...



I left it in the office to continue to "burn". I'll check tomorrow and let you all know.
If leaving it open will make it sound better, I don't mind. Since I only plan to use it for my laptop at home and office, so it should be fine...or so I think =P


----------



## vector84

Sum One said:


> I kept the memory wire, still undecided if I like it or not yet.


Many people (myself included) have reported having enormous difficulties getting a good fit with the memory wire in place... but if it's your thing, some people also really love it. 



Sum One said:


> I left it in the office to continue to "burn". I'll check tomorrow and let you all know.
> If leaving it open will make it sound better, I don't mind. Since I only plan to use it for my laptop at home and office, so it should be fine...or so I think =P


My understanding is that stainless steel screens are about as close to acoustically transparent as you can get while retaining the safety that a screen offers.

There might be some subtle differences between the pair I have with a screen and the ones without, but realistically in the process of testing contact with the BAs, I just destroyed the screens I have to the point that I don't really feel comfortable leaving them pressure fitted in there and putting them in my ears for extended periods - nor do I want to glue them in place again...


----------



## eaglesgift

goodvibes said:


> They are not for me but that in itself would prevent me from buying them. Personal bias against riding coattails. Please don't argue that that's not what this is. A buyer may not get confused but the wearer might get some Campfire street cred and it certainly isn't happenchance. It's a very unique shape and something Campfire did to set themselves apart. Makes the KZ design that much more disappointing to me.


If other people are sad enough to think that certain brands of earphones give one credibility then I'm more disappointed in the human race than I am in KZ.


----------



## themindfreak

Sum One said:


> After reading a lot of folks saying ZS5 is good, I went ahead and purchase one from GB and it took more than 1.5 months (> 25 business days) to arrive.
> 
> Finally got it last week and my first impression was "meeeh", I don't like how the highs are as vlads said "shrill and tiny". I tested it with acid jazz as it has highs mids and lows for me to test, the sax is actually hurting my ears. Tried other instrumentals and noticed synths, violins are hurting my ears. Tried rock, pop; mids are fine but highs are still pronounced. Thinking bass might be good as a lot of folks are saying, tried hip hop, r&b and i feel the bass is lacking. Tried EDMs (dubs and traps) and bass is not that great. I burned them in for 48 hrs and it's still the same. Tried different tips, comply, sony's silicon and hybrid, UE's silicon, ribbed/triple flange, and so far the sony's silicon are the one that sounded better for me, but it doesn't stay well, unless I don't move at all. I'll give it a few more days to test but I might end up just giving it away to my colleague who doesn't care much and think apple's earbuds are the best.
> 
> ...


Yea the ZS5 have that energetic fun and hyper sound to them. It gets really piercing to me as well if I listen to them too loudly.


----------



## AudioAw2015 (Sep 15, 2017)

Sum One said:


> After reading a lot of folks saying ZS5 is good, I went ahead and purchase one from GB and it took more than 1.5 months (> 25 business days) to arrive.
> 
> Finally got it last week and my first impression was "meeeh", I don't like how the highs are as vlads said "shrill and tiny". I tested it with acid jazz as it has highs mids and lows for me to test, the sax is actually hurting my ears. Tried other instrumentals and noticed synths, violins are hurting my ears. Tried rock, pop; mids are fine but highs are still pronounced. Thinking bass might be good as a lot of folks are saying, tried hip hop, r&b and i feel the bass is lacking. Tried EDMs (dubs and traps) and bass is not that great. I burned them in for 48 hrs and it's still the same. Tried different tips, comply, sony's silicon and hybrid, UE's silicon, ribbed/triple flange, and so far the sony's silicon are the one that sounded better for me, but it doesn't stay well, unless I don't move at all. I'll give it a few more days to test but I might end up just giving it away to my colleague who doesn't care much and think apple's earbuds are the best.
> 
> ...



Just curious, what source are you using? From my experience the ZS5 doesn't play well with alot of devices which makes for a tricky pairing.

As for the treble, there's no denying that it is brightly tuned, but I wouldn't call them shrill since there's actually not much energy between 4-8khz where silibance is the most apparent. I do agree with it sounding tiny though because there is a sharp boost around 10-12khz. Of course, everyone's ears are different so I can only really say this for myself.

What I suggest is pairing it to a source with a neutral mid and bottom end but smooth treble like the later generation iDevices. For tips, I suggest medium sized soft silicone tips. The sony hybrid tips you mentioned works well because they tame treble really well, but they also tend to push the mids back.


----------



## maxxevv

Yes agreed, KZ earphones seem to be source sensitive.  

That's my experience with the ZSE.  Its a slightly warm sound, so if paired with a slightly warm/dark source it can sound dull.  Its sparkle comes on with a neutral, slightly bright source.  

Comparatively, my other earphones like the Urbanfan Hifi and the CI880 don't seem to be so strongly affected by the source, though still marginally. 

The ZS5 has a slightly bright sound on the treble end from what I have tried. So, may need a comparatively warm source to bring out its best.


----------



## Viber

Sum One said:


> After reading a lot of folks saying ZS5 is good, I went ahead and purchase one from GB and it took more than 1.5 months (> 25 business days) to arrive.
> 
> Finally got it last week and my first impression was "meeeh", I don't like how the highs are as vlads said "shrill and tiny". I tested it with acid jazz as it has highs mids and lows for me to test, the sax is actually hurting my ears. Tried other instrumentals and noticed synths, violins are hurting my ears. Tried rock, pop; mids are fine but highs are still pronounced. Thinking bass might be good as a lot of folks are saying, tried hip hop, r&b and i feel the bass is lacking. Tried EDMs (dubs and traps) and bass is not that great. I burned them in for 48 hrs and it's still the same. Tried different tips, comply, sony's silicon and hybrid, UE's silicon, ribbed/triple flange, and so far the sony's silicon are the one that sounded better for me, but it doesn't stay well, unless I don't move at all. I'll give it a few more days to test but I might end up just giving it away to my colleague who doesn't care much and think apple's earbuds are the best.
> 
> ...



You are a good candidate for my mod:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1411#post-13715111

Try it before you get rid of them.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 15, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> If other people are sad enough to think that certain brands of earphones give one credibility then I'm more disappointed in the human race than I am in KZ.


Then you must be extremely disappointed in KZ. Instead of defending the practice of knocking off other's work, how about acknowledging it's improper before the rationalizations. Something there is no question about. It's a simple matter of right and wrong. One can feel it's not a big deal, buy them and enjoy them and I'm fine with that but defending the ripped off  aspects of the device is questionable. If it didn't affect one Campfire sale, it would still be wrong.


----------



## Superluc

@tamsaiming2003: is this the copper cable you have ?


----------



## Mellowship

eaglesgift said:


> If other people are sad enough to think that certain brands of earphones give one credibility then I'm more disappointed in the human race than I am in KZ.


Don't be disappointed. "Bose"d on my experience, all human hearts have the same "Beats".


----------



## Griffith

Mellowship said:


> Don't be disappointed. "Bose"d on my experience, all human hearts have the same "Beats".



That was painful to read.


----------



## Holypal

The new cable looks very nice. Hope it can be cheaper.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...de-Cable-for-kz-ED12/2661118_32833103008.html


----------



## vladstef

Holypal said:


> The new cable looks very nice. Hope it can be cheaper.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...de-Cable-for-kz-ED12/2661118_32833103008.html



I suspect it will end up being similar to ZS5 and its silver upgrade cable, they will be bundled and cost only a few $ more than without that cable. Plus the regular price drop that everyone expects with ZS6, I bet you will be able to get this cable with ZS6 for around 30$ in about a month.


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 15, 2017)

goodvibes said:


> Then you must be extremely disappointed in KZ. Instead of defending the practice of knocking off other's work, how about acknowledging it's improper before the rationalizations. Something there is no question about. It's a simple matter of right and wrong. One can feel it's not a big deal, buy them and enjoy them and I'm fine with that but defending the ripped off  aspects of the device questions one's moral compass. If it didn't affect one Campfire sale, it would still be wrong.


Why should it affect one Campfire sale, as you claimed previously? Are you seriously suggesting that someone who was planning to spend over $1,000 on an IEM would take one look at the ZS5 and say, "Hang on a minute, why don't I buy these for $17 instead, they're bound to be as good and I'll save myself a fortune"?

I'm not defending anything. I'd never even heard of Campfire until I saw posts about them on this thread. They're completely irrelevant to me because I will never spend $1,000 on IEMs. For me personally, that's a ridiculous amount of cash to hand over for a pair of earphones, regardless of how much money I may have.

For you, spending $1,000 on one pair of earphones may be entirely reasonable and I have no argument with that but please don't talk about moral compasses and right and wrong in such a grandiose manner when we're discussing something as trivial as this.


----------



## Superluc

Holypal said:


> The new cable looks very nice. Hope it can be cheaper.


Form the link i have posted before is cheaper.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 15, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> Why should it affect one Campfire sale, as you claimed previously? Are you seriously suggesting that someone who was planning to spend over $1,000 on an IEM would take one look at the ZS5 and say, "Hang on a minute, why don't I buy these for $17 instead, they're bound to be as good and I'll save myself a fortune"?
> 
> I'm not defending anything. I'd never even heard of Campfire until I saw posts about them on this thread. They're completely irrelevant to me because I will never spend $1,000 on IEMs. For me personally, that's a ridiculous amount of cash to hand over for a pair of earphones, regardless of how much money I may have.
> 
> For you, spending $1,000 on one pair of earphones may be entirely reasonable and I have no argument with that but please don't talk about moral compasses and right and wrong in such a grandiose manner when we're discussing something as trivial as this.



Yea, everything you said is true. The problem is, this is not a proper defense, this is an attempt to justify KZ's decisions, like it absolutely doesn't matter that they blatantly copied something. There is no justification for that, it's bad plain and simple.
This doesn't mean that everyone who buys KZ's IEMs is morally wrong, many people won't even know about Campfire as you have said, and even people who know about Campfire could buy KZ's ZS5 or ZS6 without feeling like it's wrong, if you have the budget for it and it is a good value, by all means, help yourself and don't feel the shame because it was worth it to you. It is terrible not to admit that what they've done is wrong.

Point being, no one is blaming anyone for purchasing a KZ product, just don't try to defend KZ for something that is clearly shameful, admit it and recognize that it's terrible because that's the humane thing to do regardless of how much Campfire is charging for their stuff. Diving into this other big question of whether it's morally correct to charge thousands of dollars for something that clearly costs way less to manufacture is completely irrelevant. It's also irrelevant talking about whether KZ's decisions could effect Campfire, it would be a greater problem if they did, but it doesn't reduce the mistake because it doesn't have an effect on Campfire.


----------



## goodvibes

Cable looks like a great deal as is.


----------



## themindfreak

Holypal said:


> The new cable looks very nice. Hope it can be cheaper.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...de-Cable-for-kz-ED12/2661118_32833103008.html


Did you see the the ZST shaped pin cable in the option of that link? It also says that the ZSR is going to be that right angled 2 pin as well


----------



## Holypal

themindfreak said:


> Did you see the the ZST shaped pin cable in the option of that link? It also says that the ZSR is going to be that right angled 2 pin as well



I read a post earlier in this thread that ZSR is not ZS10.


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 15, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Yea, everything you said is true. The problem is, this is not a proper defense, this is an attempt to justify KZ's decisions, like it absolutely doesn't matter that they blatantly copied something. There is no justification for that, it's bad plain and simple.
> This doesn't mean that everyone who buys KZ's IEMs is morally wrong, many people won't even know about Campfire as you have said, and even people who know about Campfire could buy KZ's ZS5 or ZS6 without feeling like it's wrong, if you have the budget for it and it is a good value, by all means, help yourself and don't feel the shame because it was worth it to you. It is terrible not to admit that what they've done is wrong.
> 
> Point being, no one is blaming anyone for purchasing a KZ product, just don't try to defend KZ for something that is clearly shameful, admit it and recognize that it's terrible because that's the humane thing to do regardless of how much Campfire is charging for their stuff. Diving into this other big question of whether it's morally correct to charge thousands of dollars for something that clearly costs way less to manufacture is completely irrelevant. It's also irrelevant talking about whether KZ's decisions could effect Campfire, it would be a greater problem if they did, but it doesn't reduce the mistake because it doesn't have an effect on Campfire.


Sorry, I don't want to perpetuate this debate but my post was not supposed to be a 'proper defence' or an attempt to justify KZ's decisions. If that's what you got from it, you either didn't read it properly or my writing skills are not up to scratch. To be clear - I really don't care. For me, there are many far more important things to get steamed up about in this world. It may be wrong, but shameful? I don't think so, that's going way too far. It's words like that, and talk of moral compasses, that really don't belong in a conversation such as this one.Charging $1,099 for a pair of earphones now that, on the other hand, could be considered shameful.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 15, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> Why should it affect one Campfire sale, as you claimed previously? Are you seriously suggesting that someone who was planning to spend over $1,000 on an IEM would take one look at the ZS5 and say, "Hang on a minute, why don't I buy these for $17 instead, they're bound to be as good and I'll save myself a fortune"?
> 
> I'm not defending anything and I would suggest you are somewhat arrogant if you really feel that you are qualified to make a judgement on my 'moral compass'. When I consider what is wrong in this world, I think about child abuse, rape, genocide, torture, false imprisonment....serious issues to my mind. One company imitating the design of a pair of earphones that sell for more than many people make in a month in developing countries is not a serious issue to me, it's not even an issue.
> 
> ...


Wow! Way to deflect. Global warming! KZ is justified!

Nothing I said was nearly as grandiose as that rationalization. It's really a very simple concept and one I stated that I don't judge anyone that's made a purchase on. I actually think some of their products are great values. I just ordered their new premium silver cable for kicks. I just won't do the same for their copied products. You can choose to buy from them and still understand what's going on. It's silly that you and other take such offense to posts that have clearly stated that I understand why others may not care or feel it's a big deal. No one was or should be judged on a purchase. Doesn't change the fact it's easily recognized and doesn't need silly rationalizations.


----------



## Superluc

Come on... KZ an Campfire have not the same target.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 15, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Come on... KZ an Campfire have not the same target.



And that makes it ok to steal? I don't understand the need to justify KZ's decisions just because you like their products. You can do that and admit that what they do isn't completely ethical.


----------



## Superluc

vladstef said:


> And that makes it ok to steal?


No, but it wont affect the Campfire Andromeda's sales. 

Headphone is about sound, much more than design. If someone can say something and, maybe, make a legal claim, is Campfire, but how that can be interesting for us ?


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 15, 2017)

goodvibes said:


> Wow! Way to deflect. Global warming! KZ is justified!
> 
> Nothing I said was nearly as grandiose as that rationalization. It's really a very simple concept and one I stated that I don't judge anyone that's made a purchase on. I actually think some of their products are great values. I just ordered their new premium silver cable for kicks. I just won't do the same for their copied products. You can choose to buy from them and still understand what's going on. It's silly that you and other take such offense to posts that have clearly stated that I understand why others may not care or feel it's a big deal. No one was or should be judged on a purchase. Doesn't change the fact it's easily recognized and doesn't need silly rationalizations.


I haven't taken offence and my using the adjective grandiose to describe your debating style is not name calling - this is becoming like a schoolyard argument, with some comprehension problems occurring.

I feel no shame buying a blatant copy, I honestly and sincerely couldn't care less. I feel no need to justify myself and, for those who are worried about Campfire's future profits, I honestly believe that KZ will not take one single sale away from them. If anything, they will increase Campfire's sales by drawing attention to them. For instance, when people first made the connection on here, I visited Campfire's website. Had the Andromedas been $200 rather than $1,099, I might even have bought a pair.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 15, 2017)

Superluc said:


> No, but it wont affect the Campfire Andromeda's sales.
> 
> Headphone is about sound, much more than design. If someone can say something and, maybe, make a legal claim, is Campfire, but how that can be interesting for us ?


Apparently it is since so many are feel a need to defend it.


----------



## goodvibes (Sep 15, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I haven't taken offence and my using the adjective grandiose to describe your debating style is not name calling - this is becoming like a schoolyard argument, with some comprehension problems occurring.
> 
> I feel no shame buying a blatant copy, I honestly and sincerely couldn't care less. I feel no need to justify myself and, for those who are worried about Campfire's future profits, I honestly believe that KZ will not take one single sale away from them. If anything, they will increase Campfire's sales by drawing attention to them. For instance, when people first made the connection on here, I visited Campfire's website. Had the Andromedas been $200 rather than $1.099, I might even have bought a pair.


No purchaser has been called into question, only the practice of stealing intellectual property has. It may not be that important in the grand scheme but it's definitely what's happening here. I'm sure that the KZ6 finish is just coincidence.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 15, 2017)

Superluc said:


> No, but it wont affect the Campfire Andromeda's sales.
> 
> Headphone is about sound, much more than design. If someone can say something and, maybe, make a legal claim, is Campfire, but how that can be interesting for us ?



Can't you see the contradiction in your sentence.
No, it's not ok to steal BUT it won't affect Campfire's sales - so then, it actually is ok to steal? You can't use this as an argument, besides, you are trying to justify someone stealing something and I seriously doubt that anyone could do it and nobody should even try to do it.

This conversation ended up being pointless, some people struggle to accept facts for whatever reason. Does it help you sleep at night or something? Let me tell you, you don't have to feel bad about buying something that was partially stolen, KZ and Campfire are both gonna be just fine regardless of your or mine or anyone else's opinion and/or purchasing decisions. You don't have to compromise yourself.


----------



## eaglesgift

vladstef said:


> Can't you see the contradiction in your sentence.
> No, it's not ok to steal BUT it won't affect Campfire's sales - so then, it actually is ok to steal? You can't use this as an argument, besides, you are trying to justify someone stealing something and I seriously doubt that anyone could do it and nobody should even try to do it.
> 
> This conversation ended up being pointless, some people struggle to accept facts for whatever reason. Does it help you sleep at night or something? Let me tell you, you don't have to feel bad about buying something that was partially stolen, KZ and Campfire are both gonna be just fine regardless of your or mine or anyone else's opinion and/or purchasing decisions. You don't have to compromise yourself.


Why do you keep insinuating that we might feel bad for buying the ZS5? I think the salient point is, we just don't think it's important in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Superluc

vladstef said:


> This conversation ended up being pointless


This conversation IS pointless. 

Campfire can legally defend itself, if they want. There is no need for us to spend time talking about that. Who cares ?

We are all here for talking about how we perceive sound, recommend something and try make an upgrade to what we listen.


----------



## vladstef

eaglesgift said:


> Why do you keep insinuating that we might feel bad for buying the ZS5? I think the salient point is, we just don't think it's important in the grand scheme of things.



Mostly because I can't see another reason to try and justify KZ.
You didn't say it was pointless in the grand scheme of things, you tried to find a reason why KZ's choice was ok. A big difference there. It looks like we finally found a common ground of some sorts...


----------



## goodvibes

Looks like this has de-evolved to unrecoverable. Still disappointing.


----------



## Superluc

vladstef said:


> Can't you see the contradiction in your sentence.
> No, it's not ok to steal BUT it won't affect Campfire's sales - so then, it actually is ok to steal?


No, it's not ok to steal ( and Campfire can make a legal claim, based on design copyright ) BUT it won't affect Campfire's sales ( there no need to fear for Andromeda's sales and so fill the thread abut that ).

There is no contradiction.


----------



## Kelzo (Sep 15, 2017)

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the zs5 v1 and zs5 v2 both have KZ 1205 and KZ 30095 armatures. The KZ ZS6 on the other hand got two 30095 BA. It also seems like the 6.4mm DD in the ZS5 was replaced with a smaller and hopefully better 6mm driver for the ZS6.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Sep 15, 2017)




----------



## Brooko

[Mod Comment]

I've just edited some posts.  Can we please stop the debate about Campfire vs KZ. If Campfire chooses to take legal action, I have no doubt that KZ would be in breach - but that is their decision, and shouldn't be debated here - especially when it is leading to arguments.  If the conversation continues, I will have no choice but to take action.  No-one wants that.  Please get back to discussing the KZ earphones.  Thanks


----------



## B9Scrambler

Brooko said:


> [Mod Comment]
> 
> I've just edited some posts.  Can we please stop the debate about Campfire vs KZ. If Campfire chooses to take legal action, I have no doubt that KZ would be in breach - but that is their decision, and shouldn't be debated here - especially when it is leading to arguments.  If the conversation continues, I will have no choice but to take action.  No-one wants that.  Please get back to discussing the KZ earphones.  Thanks



Finally, thank you.


----------



## vladstef

They mentioned a new mesh on the front, that's the only new thing I noticed on this photo.


----------



## goodvibes

Brooko said:


> [Mod Comment]
> 
> I've just edited some posts.  Can we please stop the debate about Campfire vs KZ. If Campfire chooses to take legal action, I have no doubt that KZ would be in breach - but that is their decision, and shouldn't be debated here - especially when it is leading to arguments.  If the conversation continues, I will have no choice but to take action.  No-one wants that.  Please get back to discussing the KZ earphones.  Thanks


Thanks Brooko. I've already stopped. It wasn't intended to be a debate about purchasers or create dissent and strictly a comment about the business model.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Is the memory wire still on there?  Unless it's really your thing... now...)



I really like the memory wire.


----------



## VinceHill24

Whew ... was so scared the whole KZ thread will be gone just like that. Let's all make relevant discussion about just the earphones and nothing beyond. Imagine how many of us will become "homeless" if the thread's gone. 

After seeing the new kz silver plated cable marketing pics, i just realised a trend! 


 
We have the ZS3 , 4 , 5 , 6 series which shares the same connection and we have those irregular names that uses the other connection. Now i guess if ZS10 is confirmed it'll definitely use ZS3 type cable. Hmm and i don't think they'll skip 7, 8, 9 too coz it doesn't make sense haha.


----------



## Fox2twenty

VinceHill24 said:


> Whew ... was so scared the whole KZ thread will be gone just like that. Let's all make relevant discussion about just the earphones and nothing beyond. Imagine how many of us will become "homeless" if the thread's gone.
> 
> After seeing the new kz silver plated cable marketing pics, i just realised a trend!
> 
> We have the ZS3 , 4 , 5 , 6 series which shares the same connection and we have those irregular names that uses the other connection. Now i guess if ZS10 is confirmed it'll definitely use ZS3 type cable. Hmm and i don't think they'll skip 7, 8, 9 too coz it doesn't make sense haha.


I'm excited for ZS7


----------



## vladstef

VinceHill24 said:


> Whew ... was so scared the whole KZ thread will be gone just like that. Let's all make relevant discussion about just the earphones and nothing beyond. Imagine how many of us will become "homeless" if the thread's gone.
> 
> After seeing the new kz silver plated cable marketing pics, i just realised a trend!
> 
> We have the ZS3 , 4 , 5 , 6 series which shares the same connection and we have those irregular names that uses the other connection. Now i guess if ZS10 is confirmed it'll definitely use ZS3 type cable. Hmm and i don't think they'll skip 7, 8, 9 too coz it doesn't make sense haha.



I think they could use a 10 in the name because of the supposed 10 drivers, 1DD + 4BA on each side. They could possibly fill in the rest in the ZS line.
I think that it's only now established that future ZS products will be in a ZS5/ZS6 style including the cable, at least that is somewhat expected out of ZS10 (that leaked ZSR PRO packaging suggests a similar design to ZS5, and we know that ZS10 is the new name for ZSR so it kinda makes sense)


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> I think they could use a 10 in the name because of the supposed 10 drivers, 1DD + 4BA on each side. They could possibly fill in the rest in the ZS line.
> I think that it's only now established that future ZS products will be in a ZS5/ZS6 style including the cable, at least that is somewhat expected out of ZS10 (that leaked ZSR PRO packaging suggests a similar design to ZS5, and we know that ZS10 is the new name for ZSR so it kinda makes sense)


What about the ES3 shell? It is much more comfortable.


----------



## vladstef

Fox2twenty said:


> What about the ES3 shell? It is much more comfortable.



Well, we only know that ZSR is probably going to look like ES3 or ZST and it will have 2 drivers in the nozzle (probably same as new ZS5 and ZS6) with one DD in the back. It looks like KZ is putting flagships in the ZS line for the perceivable future.
That hillsonicaudio instagram was spot on with information in the past few months, every piece of news came from them first and now we are starting to get confirmations from KZ.

Have to say that I expected an original unique design for their proper flagship with 4BA drivers but I think that the chances are slim to none.


----------



## young59

Guys I need help I just got a new phone whenever I use my ZS5 there is a constant noise which stops 2-3 sec after the sound ends.I tried my old headphone they seem to work fine and the KZ5 work fine with the laptop anyone know any way to solve this.Do I need to get a new cable could it be possible since the cable is 3 pole it might not be earthing properly? The phone has a dedicated amp maybe that?


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Guys I need help I just got a new phone whenever I use my ZS5 there is a constant noise which stops 2-3 sec after the sound ends.I tried my old headphone they seem to work fine and the KZ5 work fine with the laptop anyone know any way to solve this.Do I need to get a new cable could it be possible since the cable is 3 pole it might not be earthing properly? The phone has a dedicated amp maybe that?


As in a slight (or not so slight) hissing?
Generally speaking, a hiss usually means your phones are too sensitive for your source.

Unless you can configure your source somehow to deal with it (like reducing gain), you'll probably need something like an external amp, dac, impedance matcher or resistance plug to get rid of it.


----------



## Skullophile

@vladstef if you are fed up with your ZS5 like I am. Open up em and snip the brass coloured wire and see if it makes a difference. Someone. After I snipped the wires to the inactive bass and ba driver said this brassy/silver coloured wire is a ground wire. I suspect it might be a dummy wire to the Ba that's apparently in the nozzle. Snip that and if there's still that tinny treble it could mean it's just a single dynamic driver iem. The more I listen to my ZS5 the more I want to take a framing hammer to it. I tried to bust it by snipping wires and that didn't break it so if you don't do it I guess I will. Peeps call it a good earphone for its price but I call it a bad earphone at any price. Technically it's the second worst iem I have owned. And I have owned a lot of cheap iems.


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> As in a slight (or not so slight) hissing?
> Generally speaking, a hiss usually means your phones are too sensitive for your source.
> 
> Unless you can configure your source somehow to deal with it (like reducing gain), you'll probably need something like an external amp, dac, impedance matcher or resistance plug to get rid of it.


Could you elaborate a little more? It's like a hissing sound that is noticeable and it continues for a few seconds after the sound has stopped. It's the pairing of the the phone and Zs5 specifically headphones work fine on phone and ZS5 work fine on the laptop.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 15, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> @vladstef if you are fed up with your ZS5 like I am. Open up em and snip the brass coloured wire and see if it makes a difference. Someone. After I snipped the wires to the inactive bass and ba driver said this brassy/silver coloured wire is a ground wire. I suspect it might be a dummy wire to the Ba that's apparently in the nozzle. Snip that and if there's still that tinny treble it could mean it's just a single dynamic driver iem. The more I listen to my ZS5 the more I want to take a framing hammer to it. I tried to bust it by snipping wires and that didn't break it so if you don't do it I guess I will. Peeps call it a good earphone for its price but I call it a bad earphone at any price. Technically it's the second worst iem I have owned. And I have owned a lot of cheap iems.


Don't hammer it, give it to anyone who likes it and who'll find good use for it, since you hate it so much. I'm sure the person you donate the ZS5 to will be so thankful.


----------



## vladstef (Sep 15, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> @vladstef if you are fed up with your ZS5 like I am. Open up em and snip the brass coloured wire and see if it makes a difference. Someone. After I snipped the wires to the inactive bass and ba driver said this brassy/silver coloured wire is a ground wire. I suspect it might be a dummy wire to the Ba that's apparently in the nozzle. Snip that and if there's still that tinny treble it could mean it's just a single dynamic driver iem. The more I listen to my ZS5 the more I want to take a framing hammer to it. I tried to bust it by snipping wires and that didn't break it so if you don't do it I guess I will. Peeps call it a good earphone for its price but I call it a bad earphone at any price. Technically it's the second worst iem I have owned. And I have owned a lot of cheap iems.



Haha, take it easy 
I agree that the sound is weird in the higher frequencies and this is immediately noticeable for me and used to bother me, past tense because I gave mine away. At a certain point, struggling to accept its sound became way too tiresome and simply not worth it. I have to say that I think that they are good for what they are due to impressive technicalities for the price but only if you can tolerate big mistakes in tonality + phasing issues and on top of it all, a rather unexpected clarity in higher frequencies which boosted the problem even more. All of this is just how I perceived it, not a given fact.
This is very much an unpopular opinion here, most people love them (this includes some very experienced reviewers which really made me struggle a bit, how could I possibly not love them?). Maybe we are expecting way too much out of 20$ IEM.

I agree that there has to be something finicky with drivers even though I am not one of those people who said that BA driver in the body is useless due to it's orientation. I think that every driver has to have some contribution but whether it's a good contribution is beyond my ability to even begin thinking about. I just know for sure that all of these drivers aren't doing much and most of it is on the big DD.

I decided not to purchase hybrids in the budget segment anymore because I don't believe they can provide a better sound quality than a single dynamic (another thing is, fewer parts = better chance of getting a proper unit). This is why my next budget IEM will be Svara Red.


----------



## Skullophile

Fair call guys I gotta take it easy on the ZS5. Rather than complain I'll try to remove the ba in the nozzle and see what happens. Next chance I will get I'll try it. Probably Sunday. Maybe I can use something to get that blue gunk out of there to take out the large dd to get to the ba. Maybe something like nail polish although that will just turn everything it touches into a blob. Maybe I can use a dremel tool to cut through it. Or cut the whole shell apart and try to transplant the driver into a different shell with a two pin connector.


----------



## groucho69

VinceHill24 said:


> Not really. TFZ came out with Series 4 eventually after skipping it for a few of launches. TFZ is 100% Chinese. I don't think Chinese is that superstitious afterall, maybe just the older generations



And TFZ memory wire is soooo comfy!


----------



## vladstef

Skullophile said:


> Fair call guys I gotta take it easy on the ZS5. Rather than complain I'll try to remove the ba in the nozzle and see what happens. Next chance I will get I'll try it. Probably Sunday. Maybe I can use something to get that blue gunk out of there to take out the large dd to get to the ba. Maybe something like nail polish although that will just turn everything it touches into a blob. Maybe I can use a dremel tool to cut through it. Or cut the whole shell apart and try to transplant the driver into a different shell with a two pin connector.



You could have a fun experiment while you are at it. If you end up removing BA, you could directly connect it to 2 pins on the cables and try it out without any shells. I think it should reproduce frequencies above 5kHz or something like that. You won't get the clearest picture of what's happening but at least you'll get to hear that BA on its own, even if not in a proper shell and in your ear canal.


----------



## vector84

Skullophile said:


> Fair call guys I gotta take it easy on the ZS5. Rather than complain I'll try to remove the ba in the nozzle and see what happens. Next chance I will get I'll try it. Probably Sunday. Maybe I can use something to get that blue gunk out of there to take out the large dd to get to the ba. Maybe something like nail polish although that will just turn everything it touches into a blob. Maybe I can use a dremel tool to cut through it. Or cut the whole shell apart and try to transplant the driver into a different shell with a two pin connector.


I've been tinkering with my broken KZs a bit - I'd be pretty surprised if the BAs didn't work at all, since I'm pretty sure I've got at least two BA samples in KZs that are broken somehow.

I'd be particularly interested in what you turn up, particularly since I've really got nothing to lose by tearing apart my broken samples in search of some answers as to what's actually causing them to be so broken...


Like I said a few pages back, I get incredibly similar measurements from a modded ZS5 and an ES3 — to the point that I can tune them to almost perfectly match in FR though they don't quite volume match at the same level (but I'd need another working ES3 to comment on how they sound... which I don't have).  I can even tune the broken ES3 and ZS5 samples to match, as if whatever is wrong with them is a shared trait.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> Well, we only know that ZSR is probably going to look like ES3 or ZST and it will have 2 drivers in the nozzle (probably same as new ZS5 and ZS6) with one DD in the back. It looks like KZ is putting flagships in the ZS line for the perceivable future.
> That hillsonicaudio instagram was spot on with information in the past few months, every piece of news came from them first and now we are starting to get confirmations from KZ.
> 
> Have to say that I expected an original unique design for their proper flagship with 4BA drivers but I think that the chances are slim to none.


ZSR sounds neat.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Could you elaborate a little more? It's like a hissing sound that is noticeable and it continues for a few seconds after the sound has stopped. It's the pairing of the the phone and Zs5 specifically headphones work fine on phone and ZS5 work fine on the laptop.


Well the hiss you're hearing is probably the noise floor from your phone's dac/amp - it doesn't persist once you stop playing something because mobile devices tend to cut power to the headphone circuits entirely after a few seconds of nothing playing. And the ZS5s are just sensitive enough to let you hear it.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Well the hiss you're hearing is probably the noise floor from your phone's dac/amp - it doesn't persist once you stop playing something because mobile devices tend to cut power to the headphone circuits entirely after a few seconds of nothing playing. And the ZS5s are just sensitive enough to let you hear it.


There is an iFi product that plugs into the phone.


----------



## Viber

ZS5 are so much more comfortable without the memory wire.

Doing my mod and removing the memory wire should be part of the user manual lol.


----------



## Viber

I wish there would be news about a new Bluetooth cable with 100Mah battery and improved connection.
It's crazy to think that by buying that cable i'll earn 4 "new" BT earphones...


----------



## Arkady Duntov

Sum One said:


> Finally got it last week and my first impression was "meeeh", I don't like how the highs are as vlads said "shrill and tiny". I tested it with acid jazz as it has highs mids and lows for me to test, the sax is actually hurting my ears. Tried other instrumentals and noticed synths, violins are hurting my ears. Tried rock, pop; mids are fine but highs are still pronounced. Thinking bass might be good as a lot of folks are saying, tried hip hop, r&b and i feel the bass is lacking. Tried EDMs (dubs and traps) and bass is not that great. I burned them in for 48 hrs and it's still the same. Tried different tips, comply, sony's silicon and hybrid, UE's silicon, ribbed/triple flange, and so far the sony's silicon are the one that sounded better for me, but it doesn't stay well, unless I don't move at all. I'll give it a few more days to test but I might end up just giving it away to my colleague who doesn't care much and think apple's earbuds are the best.



I have the original ZS5 for which I performed over 100 hours of break-in. I think the mids and the treble are its best features even if they're not as good as other IEMs I've heard ... in any case, good. I _still_ think the bass is excessively boosted and bloomy. They didn't really suit my taste in an IEM.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 15, 2017)

Arkady Duntov said:


> I have the original ZS5 for which I performed over 100 hours of break-in. I think the mids and the treble are its best features even if they're not as good as other IEMs I've heard ... in any case, good. I _still_ think the bass is excessively boosted and bloomy. They didn't really suit my taste in an IEM.


So I haven't done this destructively on a set of ZS5s to try to lower their bass further - but I did tamper with the idea on some ES3s, as well as tape & pin hole (reversible) tinkering with the ZS5's DD vent. The DD vents are covered in a semi-permeable filter of some sort, if punctured, the size of the puncture should have a pretty big effect on the response from 20-1,000Hz. (I'm talking a *tiny* pinprick puncture btw, if anyone is thinking about taking action based on my random musings)

Also if that mesh is clogged with glue, bass goes to pretty absurd levels. On the ZS5s you can check that by covering the three outside edge vents in some tape - if you get driver flex after that, the DD vent is probably clogged.


Just a few thoughts if you're the sort of person that likes to tamper with such things.


----------



## pm2lp

I've just received my ZS5s from gearbest, grey, V2, ordered 2/3 weeks ago.
Main differences from the ZS3 after 1 min: More soundstage, the highs are really loud and detailed (almost piercing) and they are really uncomfortable. The ZS3 just sit nice in my ears but the ZS5 are way different, I'll try to change the ear tips and try to get used to them but right now I'm kind of disappointed just because I can't use them.


----------



## CYoung234

Skullophile said:


> Fair call guys I gotta take it easy on the ZS5. Rather than complain I'll try to remove the ba in the nozzle and see what happens. Next chance I will get I'll try it. Probably Sunday. Maybe I can use something to get that blue gunk out of there to take out the large dd to get to the ba. Maybe something like nail polish although that will just turn everything it touches into a blob. Maybe I can use a dremel tool to cut through it. Or cut the whole shell apart and try to transplant the driver into a different shell with a two pin connector.



Before you go too crazy with it, check to be sure the stainless steel mesh is not touching the BA's in front. That may actually be the cause of your problems, because neither of my ZS5's sound anything like what you are describing.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 15, 2017)

Talking about hillsonicaudio

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZDfecFlIpl/


> we are now stocking the NEW KZ ZS6 that will be arriving soon in ready stock earliest by end of next week or the week after, probably around 25th September!
> What's more ??!! Only during this preorder period you can get a pair of FREE EXCLUSIVE New KZ Silver Plated High Purity OFC cable for every set of KZ ZS6 ordered along with freebies from HILL AUDIO.


It really seem that the new cable hinted at tamsaiming for ZS6 is the last we have talked.


----------



## Keller2

Magaosi K3 vs ES3 : 

Magaosi k3 is superior in everything except sound. 
Magaosi K3 has a bit more detail and clarity but I'd honestly rather have the insane bass extension of the ES3.
So it's better sound vs better convenience. 

I sure hope KZ makes their ZS3 Hybrid shell and cables more premium.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Arkady Duntov said:


> I have the original ZS5 for which I performed over 100 hours of break-in. I think the mids and the treble are its best features even if they're not as good as other IEMs I've heard ... in any case, good. I _still_ think the bass is excessively boosted and bloomy. They didn't really suit my taste in an IEM.


The upper mids and treble are good. I think the Soundstage is the best feature for ZS5 though.


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> So I haven't done this destructively on a set of ZS5s to try to lower their bass further - but I did tamper with the idea on some ES3s, as well as tape & pin hole (reversible) tinkering with the ZS5's DD vent. The DD vents are covered in a semi-permeable filter of some sort, if punctured, the size of the puncture should have a pretty big effect on the response from 20-1,000Hz. (I'm talking a *tiny* pinprick puncture btw, if anyone is thinking about taking action based on my random musings)
> 
> Also if that mesh is clogged with glue, bass goes to pretty absurd levels. On the ZS5s you can check that by covering the three outside edge vents in some tape - if you get driver flex after that, the DD vent is probably clogged.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fox2twenty

Keller2 said:


> Magaosi K3 vs ES3 :
> 
> Magaosi k3 is superior in everything except sound.
> Magaosi K3 has a bit more detail and clarity but I'd honestly rather have the insane bass extension of the ES3.
> ...


The ES3 is pretty fun


----------



## Fox2twenty

Viber said:


> ZS5 are so much more comfortable without the memory wire.
> 
> Doing my mod and removing the memory wire should be part of the user manual lol.


I feel like the memory wire helps me to maintain the shallow fit that I need worth both the zs5 and the ES3.


----------



## vector84

groucho69 said:


>


Indeed... I just got the refunds/replacements first, *then* did these sorts of things with the rejects. 

Guess it's a good thing I always take the insurance... ahh Chi-Fi... oh, it showed up broken? Well just throw it away then and we'll send another!


----------



## NeonHD

My KZ ATE-S has finally arrived today! 

These have some of the most detailed mids I've ever heard. I was expecting some more sub-bass rumble from the S-variant but it's still not enough for my taste. However the mid-bass is very present and full and does not warm up/leak into the mids. On higher volumes the high-mids become mildly sibilant which I dislike. Treble I wouldn't say is quiet nor recessed, but it's not detailed which can be a good thing for some tracks that only focus on mids. The ATE-S really doesn't seem to fare well with EDM (trance and progressive), but I found it to really excel at genres such as hip/chill hop. I particularly loved playing songs from Gramatik with these IEMs.

Also the soundstage is quite decent. It's definitely more on the intimate side of things.

Overall the ATE/ATE-S didn't quite match my expectations with regards to sound but I guess I can appreciate its sound signature.


----------



## Fox2twenty

NeonHD said:


> My KZ ATE-S has finally arrived today!
> 
> These have some of the most detailed mids I've ever heard. I was expecting some more sub-bass rumble from the S-variant but it's still not enough for my taste. However the mid-bass is very present and full and does not warm up/leak into the mids. On higher volumes the high-mids become mildly sibilant which I dislike. Treble I wouldn't say is quiet nor recessed, but it's not detailed which can be a good thing for some tracks that only focus on mids. The ATE-S really doesn't seem to fare well with EDM (trance and progressive), but I found it to really excel at genres such as hip/chill hop. I particularly loved playing songs from Gramatik with these IEMs.
> 
> ...


The ATE-S sounds pretty cool. Where did you purchase?


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Indeed... I just got the refunds/replacements first, *then* did these sorts of things with the rejects.
> 
> Guess it's a good thing I always take the insurance... ahh Chi-Fi... oh, it showed up broken? Well just throw it away then and we'll send another!


Did not know about this... So you just buy the store insurance?


----------



## Viber

Fox2twenty said:


> I feel like the memory wire helps me to maintain the shallow fit that I need worth both the zs5 and the ES3.



I feel like it's pulling the ZS3\5 in other directions while hurting my ears a bit.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Viber said:


> I feel like it's pulling the ZS3\5 in other directions while hurting my ears a bit.


I think that may be the case with silicone tips. I am using foam.


----------



## vector84

Fox2twenty said:


> Did not know about this... So you just buy the store insurance?


Yes, when ordering from Gearbest or Banggood, I've always taken the insurance on everything.  The few times I've had a problem, I've had a wonderful CS experiences with them, but I do tend to send in a pretty overwhelming amount of evidence (lengthy descriptions, pictures, frequency plots, etc) that the item I'm complaining about is indeed broken and I'm not just trying to be a jerk.

Mind you I've never tried to abuse this, I'm sure much like Amazon they'd punish you for being excessive, and I rather doubt they're *that *lenient on everything.

Also to be more precise, Gearbest offered me wallet credit and coupons to keep the defective item, or return it for a full refund. Banggood offered me a full refund or free replacement (29 days after receipt).  But these are both sample sizes of one.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Yes, when ordering from Gearbest or Banggood, I've always taken the insurance on everything.  The few times I've had a problem, I've had a wonderful CS experiences with them, but I do tend to send in a pretty overwhelming amount of evidence (lengthy descriptions, pictures, frequency plots, etc) that the item I'm complaining about is indeed broken and I'm not just trying to be a jerk.
> 
> Mind you I've never tried to abuse this, I'm sure much like Amazon they'd punish you for being excessive, and I rather doubt they're *that *lenient on everything.
> 
> Also to be more precise, Gearbest offered me wallet credit and coupons to keep the defective item, or return it for a full refund. Banggood offered me a full refund or free replacement (29 days after receipt).  But these are both sample sizes of one.



Still cool.


----------



## Viber

Fox2twenty said:


> I think that may be the case with silicone tips. I am using foam.



Nah, i'm using foams.


----------



## Slater

VinceHill24 said:


> Whew ... was so scared the whole KZ thread will be gone just like that. Let's all make relevant discussion about just the earphones and nothing beyond. Imagine how many of us will become "homeless" if the thread's gone.
> 
> After seeing the new kz silver plated cable marketing pics, i just realised a trend!
> 
> We have the ZS3 , 4 , 5 , 6 series which shares the same connection and we have those irregular names that uses the other connection. Now i guess if ZS10 is confirmed it'll definitely use ZS3 type cable. Hmm and i don't think they'll skip 7, 8, 9 too coz it doesn't make sense haha.



ZS4? Say whaaaaa? First mention of that I've ever seen...


----------



## Slater

Skullophile said:


> @vladstef if you are fed up with your ZS5 like I am. Open up em and snip the brass coloured wire and see if it makes a difference. Someone. After I snipped the wires to the inactive bass and ba driver said this brassy/silver coloured wire is a ground wire. I suspect it might be a dummy wire to the Ba that's apparently in the nozzle. Snip that and if there's still that tinny treble it could mean it's just a single dynamic driver iem. The more I listen to my ZS5 the more I want to take a framing hammer to it. I tried to bust it by snipping wires and that didn't break it so if you don't do it I guess I will. Peeps call it a good earphone for its price but I call it a bad earphone at any price. Technically it's the second worst iem I have owned. And I have owned a lot of cheap iems.



I'll take them! I've been waiting for an unwanted or broken pair so I can do a PROPER dissection and put this whole "fake driver" thing to rest. All of the other dissections that have been done up until now are all mangled up and you can't see what the heck is going on inside of the shell.

I plan on carefully dissolving the glue away, so we can all see everything as it was designed. You'll be doing the community a great service.

PM me if you are willing to donate your pair (I'll pay for shipping). I don't need the cable or tips; only the shells.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

I believe KZ has different marketing plans on Chinese market and foreign market. What you guys talking about, like the earphone or cable, it is a different story in local market.


----------



## TimeSnow

tamsaiming2003 said:


> I believe KZ has different marketing plans on Chinese market and foreign market. What you guys talking about, like the earphone or cable, it is a different story in local market.


Could you tell us how it is different? Maybe some examples?


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 15, 2017)

There are less KZ earphones model that buyers are interested in at taobao because we know the bad one........but there are many cm OCC, OFC, cyrco (78k) 0.78 pin cables for KZ earphones......... which do not sell to foreign markets


----------



## Slater (Sep 15, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> My KZ ATE-S has finally arrived today!
> 
> These have some of the most detailed mids I've ever heard. I was expecting some more sub-bass rumble from the S-variant but it's still not enough for my taste. However the mid-bass is very present and full and does not warm up/leak into the mids. On higher volumes the high-mids become mildly sibilant which I dislike. Treble I wouldn't say is quiet nor recessed, but it's not detailed which can be a good thing for some tracks that only focus on mids. The ATE-S really doesn't seem to fare well with EDM (trance and progressive), but I found it to really excel at genres such as hip/chill hop. I particularly loved playing songs from Gramatik with these IEMs.
> 
> ...



Good call! I like my ATE-S. The comments about them used to be that they were the "bassiest" of all of the ATx range, but I never found that to be the case. I found them to be the LEAST bassy of the ATx bunch.

It definitely has a unique sound signature that has to be heard to be appreciated.

On another note, mine didn't come in that cool white box. Mine came in the cheap black cardboard box (not even the plastic windowed one - jut literally a black cardboard box like KZ used to use for a lot of their older IEMs).


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Good call! I like my ATE-S. The comments about them used to be that they were the "bassiest" of all of the ATx range, but I never found that to be the case. I found them to be the LEAST bassy of the ATx bunch.
> 
> It definitely has a unique sound signature that has to be heard to be appreciated.
> 
> On another note, mine didn't come in that cool white box. Mine came in the cheap black cardboard box (not even the plastic windowed one - jut literally a black cardboard box like KZ used to use for a lot of their older IEMs).


Maybe I will get the ATE-S.


----------



## NeonHD

Fox2twenty said:


> The ATE-S sounds pretty cool. Where did you purchase?



They go for around CAD $12.



slaterlovesspam said:


> Good call! I like my ATE-S. The comments about them used to be that they were the "bassiest" of all of the ATx range, but I never found that to be the case. I found them to be the LEAST bassy of the ATx bunch.
> 
> It definitely has a unique sound signature that has to be heard to be appreciated.
> 
> On another note, mine didn't come in that cool white box. Mine came in the cheap black cardboard box (not even the plastic windowed one - jut literally a black cardboard box like KZ used to use for a lot of their older IEMs).



Really? I owned the ATR before and the ATE-S was miles bassier in my experience. Do you know what's the main differences between the ATE and the ATE-S?


----------



## tamsaiming2003 (Sep 15, 2017)

.


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


> .


Pretty cool


----------



## TimeSnow

tamsaiming2003 said:


> .


Wow!


----------



## Slater

tamsaiming2003 said:


> .



So I can't read any of that, but what struck me as cool was the 90-degree ZST style cable installed right onto the ZS5. I know the pins technically fit but the molded plug body doesn't. This is the 1st time I've seen a seller advocating this.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

slaterlovesspam said:


> So I can't read any of that, but what struck me as cool was the 90-degree ZST style cable installed right onto the ZS5. I know the pins technically fit but the molded plug body doesn't. This is the 1st time I've seen a seller advocating this.


The cable is modified KZ ZS5 first press cable.


----------



## Fox2twenty

tamsaiming2003 said:


> The cable is modified KZ ZS5 first press cable.


That's cool


----------



## tamsaiming2003

Another example: KZ ZS6 with 6N OCC cable.(I order the more renowned 7N OCC one though)


----------



## Slater (Sep 15, 2017)

tamsaiming2003 said:


> The cable is modified KZ ZS5 first press cable.



Ah, I see how they modified it.

Cool!


----------



## AudioAw2015

tamsaiming2003 said:


> I believe KZ has different marketing plans on Chinese market and foreign market. What you guys talking about, like the earphone or cable, it is a different story in local market.



How popular are the KZ stuff in local HK shops? Last summer from my visit, I saw lots of people using high end stuff like westone and fit-ear, and a lot of the shops in *旺角 *were selling mid-high end stuff. The only place I saw cheap iems were of course in 黃金 where they hang them on the walls in mobile shops.


----------



## Aevum

So how does the ZS6 compare to the ZS5 ? worth ordering it when i already have the 5 ?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Aevum said:


> So how does the ZS6 compare to the ZS5 ? worth ordering it when i already have the 5 ?


Supposedly the Soundstage is wider.


----------



## bhazard

No ES3 love? It is incredibly capable with the slightest bit of EQ. KZ's best yet. Superb value, strong yet tempered bass. Absolutely love them.


----------



## Selenium

What kind of EQ do you use on them?


----------



## Fox2twenty

bhazard said:


> No ES3 love? It is incredibly capable with the slightest bit of EQ. KZ's best yet. Superb value, strong yet tempered bass. Absolutely love them.


I'm using ES3, it's good.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

AudioAw2015 said:


> How popular are the KZ stuff in local HK shops? Last summer from my visit, I saw lots of people using high end stuff like westone and fit-ear, and a lot of the shops in *旺角 *were selling mid-high end stuff. The only place I saw cheap iems were of course in 黃金 where they hang them on the walls in mobile shops.


深水埗 Sham Shui Po 福仁

You know Cantonese?


----------



## AudioAw2015

tamsaiming2003 said:


> 深水埗 Sham Shui Po 福仁
> 
> You know Cantonese?



Yea from HK, but moved to Canada a long time ago. Really miss those computer and hifi shops.


----------



## foba

bhazard said:


> No ES3 love? It is incredibly capable with the slightest bit of EQ. KZ's best yet. Superb value, strong yet tempered bass. Absolutely love them.



I've used it more nowdays than ZS5. Its nice!


----------



## Viber

No news on the new "dual driver zs3"?? i'm starting to think it was just a prank by one of the members here.  It doesn't seem likely.


----------



## tamsaiming2003

AudioAw2015 said:


> Yea from HK, but moved to Canada a long time ago. Really miss those computer and hifi shops.


福仁係黄金對面, 有間叫肥仔, 你上hkepc kz zs6 post


----------



## skeej

foba said:


> I've used it more nowdays than ZS5. Its nice!



I'm almost starting to think my ES3 arrived defective, as I was really disappointed by them. Way more sibilance than ZS5, more boomy bass (bloaty bump between 100 and 250 Hz), less sub bass extension, less treble extension. I tried starline tips, fake Comply T400, real Comply T400, and Spinfits, but the sibilance just doesn't go away.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 16, 2017)

skeej said:


> I'm almost starting to think my ES3 arrived defective, as I was really disappointed by them. Way more sibilance than ZS5, more boomy bass (bloaty bump between 100 and 250 Hz), less sub bass extension, less treble extension. I tried starline tips, fake Comply T400, real Comply T400, and Spinfits, but the sibilance just doesn't go away.


Do you get driver flex? I believe driver flex on an ES3 is a sign of blocked vents.
Mine showed up that way on one side, also with a broken BA on the same side 

I'm not sure how to describe a broken BA - they're not non-functional, but their FR doesn't line up at all with most of my samples and they just sound awful to me.
(early testing suggests the broken BAs are similar though, almost as if they're not broken, but a rather different model BA)

And then if you like tinkering, the foam packed in the nozzle attenuates around 4kHz, if it's up near the edge of the BA (one of mine was) you can push it like half a millimeter lower to be around the body of the BA to get more cut in that region.


----------



## Keller2 (Sep 16, 2017)

skeej said:


> I'm almost starting to think my ES3 arrived defective, as I was really disappointed by them. Way more sibilance than ZS5, more boomy bass (bloaty bump between 100 and 250 Hz), less sub bass extension, less treble extension. I tried starline tips, fake Comply T400, real Comply T400, and Spinfits, but the sibilance just doesn't go away.


Yeah that doesn't sound right. The ES3 seperate the mids and bass extremely well. They should sound like the ZST except instead of the rumble you get insane subbass. (and more prounounced mids)


----------



## young59

Guys whats the best way to increase the impedance of my ZS5 someone here suggested iFi ear buddy but I couldn't find it on ali or gearbest. The problem is when I am using the ZS5 there a constant hiss/white noise which became much more apparent when I got a new phone which has a dedicated amp.The noise is not there when I use my old Denon headphone which have a impadence of 32ohm. Should I just order a bluetooth module and call it a day since the impedance adaptor I found on aliexpress cost the same as a kz bluetooth module.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Guys whats the best way to increase the impedance of my ZS5 someone here suggested iFi ear buddy but I couldn't find it on ali or gearbest. The problem is when I am using the ZS5 there a constant hiss/white noise which became much more apparent when I got a new phone which has a dedicated amp.The noise is not there when I use my old Denon headphone which have a impadence of 32ohm. Should I just order a bluetooth module and call it a day since the impedance adaptor I found on aliexpress cost the same as a kz bluetooth module.


As far as I can tell, the iFi products contain much higher quality components than any DIY stuff you'll find on the cheap.

Impedance adapters are different - they're series resistors typically and they will change the frequency response of things connected to them - for better or worse would be up to you to decide, I suppose, they get a pretty bad rap around here.
The iFi Ear Buddy and IEMatch products are attenuators - which are typically built as resistive voltage dividers, which you can find, but typically priced higher than the Ear Buddy at least internationally, might be able to find something locally depending on market etc.

Some people still can hear the difference with an attenuator, but in your case this sounds like an ideal solution - it's a brand new product though, you may have to wait a little bit. I believe they're up for pre order on B&H, not sure where else yet.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> As far as I can tell, the iFi products contain much higher quality components than any DIY stuff you'll find on the cheap.
> 
> Impedance adapters are different - they're series resistors typically and they will change the frequency response of things connected to them - for better or worse would be up to you to decide, I suppose, they get a pretty bad rap around here.
> The iFi Ear Buddy and IEMatch products are attenuators - which are typically built as resistive voltage dividers, which you can find, but typically priced higher than the Ear Buddy at least internationally, might be able to find something locally depending on market etc.
> ...


Indeed. They have a thread on head-fi. Supposedly the iFi products are really nice.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Guys whats the best way to increase the impedance of my ZS5 someone here suggested iFi ear buddy but I couldn't find it on ali or gearbest. The problem is when I am using the ZS5 there a constant hiss/white noise which became much more apparent when I got a new phone which has a dedicated amp.The noise is not there when I use my old Denon headphone which have a impadence of 32ohm. Should I just order a bluetooth module and call it a day since the impedance adaptor I found on aliexpress cost the same as a kz bluetooth module.


Oh and I can't speak to the Bluetooth module personally - the possibility of a timer based charging circuit was a dealbreaker in my eyes, but there's no denying the cost-value ratio there.

Opinions on how adequately it drives the ZS5s seem to quite a bit, but at least a few people around here seemed underwhelmed by the pairing.  And of course Bluetooth means some level of compression.


----------



## young59

Spending money on a earphone accessory/add-on that costs more the the iem itself I just can't see myself doing that.I know bluetooth will have compression but since I have the ZS5 v2 has strong high end the hissing is noticeable even during a song.I would rather just get a small dac+amp like the fiio k1 .


----------



## themindfreak

vladstef said:


> They mentioned a new mesh on the front, that's the only new thing I noticed on this photo.


From the picture, the ZS6 looks slightly smaller in dimensions. If it really is smaller in shape, I might just get the ZS6 because damn the ZS5 can really hurt some ears after an hour :/


----------



## vector84 (Sep 16, 2017)

young59 said:


> Spending money on a earphone accessory/add-on that costs more the the iem itself I just can't see myself doing that.I know bluetooth will have compression but since I have the ZS5 v2 has strong high end the hissing is noticeable even during a song.I would rather just get a small dac+amp like the fiio k1 .


Well, to put things in perspective - assuming everyone's specs are fair and accurate:
(this is a *completely* unreasonable assumption, but bear with me a moment)

From a technical standpoint, the Ear Buddy should reduce the noise floor to a much lower level than anything else in that price range is likely to do (at the cost of top-end volume and power efficiency, of course, it's an attenuator).  Let's say you're working with a -90 dBA SNR out of your phone, the Ear Buddy should drop that to around -105, the K1 is around -100.
(someone correct me here because I think I'm wrong about this, but below around -105 the noise from the drivers themselves in the ZS5 will dominate the noise floor, as opposed to the dac/amp?)

If sound coloration is an acceptable trade-off, resistance plugs are a super cheap way to remove hiss, but they will always color the sound to some extent.

Admittedly pretty hard to deny the value of the Bluetooth cables in your situation too, but someone else will have to tackle that particular pairing.  Try searching the thread perhaps, a few people have given their take on them.


You could put together a custom attenuator if that's your deal - cheap parts for them can be had for a few cents, but you'll want much higher quality resistors and much tighter wiring tolerances to get the sort of performance that iFi products are likely to produce.


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> Well, to put things in perspective - assuming everyone's specs are fair and accurate:
> (this is a *completely* unreasonable assumption, but bear with me a moment)
> 
> From a technical standpoint, the Ear Buddy should reduce the noise floor to a much lower level than anything else in that price range is likely to do (at the cost of top-end volume and power efficiency, of course, it's an attenuator).  Let's say you're working with a -90 dBA SNR out of your phone, the Ear Buddy should drop that to around -105, the K1 is around -100.
> ...


Yeah but since the noise is from the phone I believe the fiio k1 would just completely remove it from the equation since its a dac and amp and yeah bluetooth module is a good option just waiting for someone to tell how well it will be able to drive the ZS5. Thanks for the help though now I am getting the point why audiophile spend money on sperate amp and dacs.But I am not a audiophile these KZ are my first decent IEM(Zs3 and zs5).


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Well, to put things in perspective - assuming everyone's specs are fair and accurate:
> (this is a *completely* unreasonable assumption, but bear with me a moment)
> 
> From a technical standpoint, the Ear Buddy should reduce the noise floor to a much lower level than anything else in that price range is likely to do (at the cost of top-end volume and power efficiency, of course, it's an attenuator).  Let's say you're working with a -90 dBA SNR out of your phone, the Ear Buddy should drop that to around -105, the K1 is around -100.
> ...



Hmmm, you guys lost me somewhere. I don't understand how bluetooth cables are an alternative to a resistor adapter or an attenuator like the Ear Buddy.

Are you trying to use the bluetooth cable to increase resistance?


----------



## young59

slaterlovesspam said:


> Hmmm, you guys lost me somewhere. I don't understand how bluetooth cables are an alternative to a resistor adapter or an attenuator like the Ear Buddy.
> 
> Are you trying to use the bluetooth cable to increase resistance?


No we if there is no connection to the phone there won't be any noise since the phone is what causing those noise.


----------



## Slater

themindfreak said:


> From the picture, the ZS6 looks slightly smaller in dimensions. If it really is smaller in shape, I might just get the ZS6 because damn the ZS5 can really hurt some ears after an hour :/



Interesting observation. Up until I saw the photo where you pointed that out, I just assumed the ZS5 and ZS6 were basically identical shells other than 2 very slight differences - 1) the flat part machined down where the shell says R&L, and 2) the extra "step" on the rear of the IEM by the nozzle.

But looking at the photo you posted, the ZS6 does look smaller and more compact than the ZS5. It could just be an illusion from not resizing the source images they used. I'll know in a few weeks when my ZS6 shows up.


----------



## Slater

young59 said:


> No we if there is no connection to the phone there won't be any noise since the phone is what causing those noise.



Oh, I got you.

Lemme ask you this - what cable are you using with the ZS5? Have you tried another cable (such as the silver plates cable or even the one from the ZS3)?

Also, the sound when using the bluetooth cable on the ZS5 isn't that great. I have a bluetooth cable that I intended to use with the ZS5 and never do because I don't like the sound with it. It just sounds "off", so I only use the ZS3 wired.


----------



## young59

slaterlovesspam said:


> Oh, I got you.
> 
> Lemme ask you this - what cable are you using with the ZS5? Have you tried another cable (such as the silver plates cable or even the one from the ZS3)?
> 
> Also, the sound when using the bluetooth cable on the ZS5 isn't that great. I have a bluetooth cable that I intended to use with the ZS5 and never do because I don't like the sound with it. It just sounds "off", so I only use the ZS3 wired.


Yeah I thought about it but the description of the silver wire states it has lower resistance isn't it the opposite of what we are trying to do.


----------



## Slater

young59 said:


> Yeah I thought about it but the description of the silver wire states it has lower resistance isn't it the opposite of what we are trying to do.



Yeah, I guess it would be the opposite or your goal. Never mind the suggestion then.

Well, I hope it works out for you. I'm curious to see how you finally get the issue resolved.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 16, 2017)

young59 said:


> Yeah I thought about it but the description of the silver wire states it has lower resistance isn't it the opposite of what we are trying to do.


Ehm... not exactly.  First off those values are marketing mumbo-jumbo - never trust anything that says "traditional XXX are YYY".

If you have a multi-meter handy, you could measure your cables resistance - and if you do, you actually should try this - also check for a partial short or similar which could definitely produce a *loud* hissing noise.  Or like slater said, just try a different cable period. 


Assuming there's nothing wrong with the cable though, the impedance of the headphones isn't the reason that they hiss, they hiss because their sensitivity extends below the noise floor of your source, so they render the noise floor as an audible sound - that's the hiss.

Putting a resistor in series creates a voltage divider out of the resistor and the headphones proportional to the ratio of the impedance of the devices - but impedance isn't always flat with frequency (by definition) - this is what makes a resistor plug color the sound, it produces a voltage divider with the headphones with unknown values, and this voltage divider reduces voltage by unknown amounts with respect to frequency.

An attenuator usually presents a complete voltage divider - two resistors with known values in series and a voltage pulled across one of them presented as an output, resulting in a more uniform voltage reduction across all frequencies evenly since both resistances are known (and tailored to reduce error rate in the output).

The voltage is what tells your headphones how loud to play a signal.
(technically that's a gross simplification at best, flat out wrong at worst as it's really more about power but... getting side-tracked here...)


PS: I'd make a comment about cables, but I feel like anything I'd have to say would get lost in a "do cables matter" type discussion. (where both viewpoints are entirely valid imho)


----------



## young59

Wait a minute many people here own the ZS5 then why am I the only one experiencing this do all of you own decent audiophile equipment,at least some of you must be using them directly from a phone right?


----------



## vector84 (Sep 16, 2017)

young59 said:


> Wait a minute many people here own the ZS5 then why am I the only one experiencing this do all of you own high end audiophile equipment at least some of you must be using them directly from a phone right?


Many people just aren't bothered by the hiss at all and it gets covered over by the music, especially with modern power regulation techniques that cut it a few seconds after the signal cuts off.  Though a loud hiss would be an especially bad SNR out of your phone though (or a damaged cable) - something non-sensitive cans won't show, but sensitive gear will highlight rather noticeably.

Assuming the specs are correct, noise floor should relate to input sensitivity vs source SNR - low sensitivity headphones will have a noise floor dominated by the noise of the headphones themselves since they aren't sensitive enough to render the source noise floor as sound, while high sensitivity ones will have a noise floor dominated by the noise of the source until source SNR falls below their range to render, at which point their noise floor will likewise be dominated by the headphones themselves.
(nothing is ever truly noise free and getting close, like Microsoft's absurdly quiet test chamber, makes most people experience intensely uncomfortable sensations)


Also I'm not trying to say you have to go out and buy one... Nor do I have a K1 to be able to tell you how much hiss you might hear with it it.

Just saying that from a purely technical standpoint, an attenuator is a pretty solid option when you have plenty of volume headroom.


If you don't wanna shell out $20 for one, you could build one from scavenged parts pretty darn cheap, but I've never seen anyone selling such things at anywhere near reasonable prices - iFi's stuff at least boasts some pretty high end components and tolerances for the price.


TLDR: If it happens with other high sensitivity headphones, it's probably your phone, if it doesn't, it's might be broken iem/cable.


----------



## cirodts

do you feel the zs5 with silver cable better?


----------



## TheVortex

cirodts said:


> do you feel the zs5 with silver cable better?



No sound quality difference but has better microphonics. Also mine are turning green as well


----------



## young59 (Sep 16, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Many people just aren't bothered by the hiss at all and it gets covered over by the music, especially with modern power regulation techniques that cut it a few seconds after the signal cuts off.  Though a loud hiss would be an especially bad SNR out of your phone though (or a damaged cable) - something non-sensitive cans won't show, but sensitive gear will highlight rather noticeably.
> 
> Assuming the specs are correct, noise floor should relate to input sensitivity vs source SNR - low sensitivity headphones will have a noise floor dominated by the noise of the headphones themselves since they aren't sensitive enough to render the source noise floor as sound, while high sensitivity ones will have a noise floor dominated by the noise of the source until source SNR falls below their range to render, at which point their noise floor will likewise be dominated by the headphones themselves.
> (nothing is ever truly noise free and getting close, like Microsoft's absurdly quiet test chamber, makes most people experience intensely uncomfortable sensations)
> ...


What counts as sensitive headphone? I did try my friend's ED9 its there but really hard to notice i had to specifically listen for it to happen even my friend was saying was saying he couldn't here it with his ED9 or atleast not significantly but as soon as I gave him the ZS5 he could also notice it.Even if a try to forget about it whenever the song stops it continues for 1-2 sec which makes it hard to forget or ignore it.

PS:- According to gearbest the ZS5 are 8ohm and ED9 are 18ohm


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> What counts as sensitive headphone? I did try my friend's ED9 its there but really hard to notice i had to specifically listen for it to happen even my friend was saying was saying he couldn't here it with his ED9 or atleast not significantly but as soon as I gave him the ZS5 he could also notice it.Even if a try to forget about it whenever the song stops it continues for 1-2 sec which makes it hard to forget or ignore it.
> 
> PS:- According to gearbest the ZS5 are 8ohm and ED9 are 18ohm


The exact specifics are a bit annoying to calculate, short answer is it depends.

if it's dB/mV then absolute comparisons should apply iirc, but usually it's dB/mA which means impedance is a factor as well, you can convert them but i don't remember how off the top if my head.


----------



## sfztcar

Is there a source to buy KZ Starline tips?  The official store on AE only appears to stock the foam tips.

If I can't buy the tips alone, is there a list of KZ IEMs that ship w/ Starlines?


----------



## Slater (Sep 16, 2017)

young59 said:


> Wait a minute many people here own the ZS5 then why am I the only one experiencing this do all of you own decent audiophile equipment,at least some of you must be using them directly from a phone right?



I've used my ZS5 with my iPhone SE, iPod Touch 5th gen, iPod Nano 6th gen (2 of them), iPad Mini, Sansa Clip+, xduoo X3, and my HTC Incredible 1. I've had none of the noise issues you're talking about. In fact, I've never had any buzzing like you're describing with ANY of my IEMs or headphones.

So have you ever experienced this with any other headphone or earphone? Have you tried your ZS5 with any other sources, such as a PC or laptop, iPad, or DAP? Because my guess would be an impedance mismatch, or possibly something wrong with your phone's audio jack.

The other thing you could try is using a USB OTG to 3.5mm adapter (assuming you have an Android), bypassing the headphone port completely. If you have an iPhone, try a lightning to 3.5mm adapter (sold with many newer iPhone models as well as 3rd party variants) to see if that helps.

It could also be a damaged or miswired/shorted cable, which is why I recommended trying a different cable (your ZS3 stock cable should be enough to test with).


----------



## Superluc (Sep 16, 2017)

sfztcar said:


> Is there a source to buy KZ Starline tips?  The official store on AE only appears to stock the foam tips.
> 
> If I can't buy the tips alone, is there a list of KZ IEMs that ship w/ Starlines?


You can try here for the first gen ( gray )
This one appear to sell the second ( black )
The cheaper IEM with the Starline (2°) is probably the ZSE, very cheap on Gearbest


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> You can try here for the first gen ( gray )
> This one appear to sell the second ( black )
> The cheaper IEM with the Starline (2°) is probably the ZSE, very cheap on Gearbest



Yeah, good links.

BTW, pretty much most recent KZs come with Starlines (pretty sure ZST, ZS3, ZS5, ZSE, etc).


----------



## damex (Sep 16, 2017)

could we use normal/recessed 2pin cable with KZ ZST like with CIEMS or any other 2pin IEMs?

i ordered a pair for myself and then found out that there is a different kind of cables (which is still 2pin)... not a big deal but it would let me use cables that i already own


----------



## Superluc

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, good links.
> 
> BTW, pretty much most recent KZs come with Starlines (pretty sure ZST, ZS3, ZS5, ZSE, etc).


Not the ZS3. ZST probably mount the first gen.


----------



## sfztcar

Superluc said:


> You can try here for the first gen ( gray )
> This one appear to sell the second ( black )
> The cheaper IEM with the Starline (2°) is probably the ZSE, very cheap on Gearbest



Thanks for the quick replies.  Searching for stuff on AE is a skill I haven't acquired yet.


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> Not the ZS3. ZST probably mount the first gen.



I could have sworn mine came with Starlines. Although I'm never really sure because the second I open an IEM I put the tips into my "tip bin", and start tip rolling to find the best sounding tips. So it makes it hard to remember which one has what sometimes.


----------



## Superluc

sfztcar said:


> Thanks for the quick replies.  Searching for stuff on AE is a skill I haven't acquired yet.


They dint appear to me as well, when i have first search for them. Maybe "Starline" isn't in the tag.


----------



## Slater

damex said:


> could we use normal/recessed 2pin cable with KZ ZST like with CIEMS or any other 2pin IEMs?
> 
> i ordered a pair for myself and then found out that there is a different kind of cables (which is still 2pin)... not a big deal but it would let me use cables that i already own



Most (if not all) 2-pin cables NOT designed for KZ IEMs use 0.78mm pins. All KZ models (except an early version of the ZS3) use 0.75mm pins.

While the 0.78mm pinned cables technically fit, it will "stretch out" the sockets on the KZ so the KZ cables will no longer work and will be loose and fall out.

So the general rule of thumb I recommend is _"once you go non-KZ ie 0.78mm, you must stay non-KZ ie 0.78mm"_.


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> They dint appear to me as well, when i have first search for them. Maybe "Starline" isn't in the tag.



No, they don't use the term Starline. I think we came up with that around here.

You just have go search for "KZ silicone tips" or "replacement KZ earphone tips" or something along those lines. You'll see foams and other KZ tips, but the Starlines will be in there.

Sort of like casting a wide fishing net. You'll catch crabs and other types of fish, but you'll definitely get the type you're trying to catch as well


----------



## Superluc

slaterlovesspam said:


> I could have sworn mine came with Starlines.


 Strange... my pair, buy from Gearbest, mount this medium tips with red circle, normally show around.


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> Strange... my pair, buy from Gearbest, mount this medium tips with red circle, normally show around.



Oh yeah I remember those now.

Yeah, the ZS3 comes with those.

Those red circle tips were the 'go to' KZ tip for a long time - they included them on almost everything. I have a million pair of those, and they aren't a bad tip at all.


----------



## Superluc

slaterlovesspam said:


> You just have go search for "KZ silicone tips" or "replacement KZ earphone tips" or something along those lines.


Yup



slaterlovesspam said:


> No, they don't use the term Starline. I think we came up with that around here.


Ah... i dint know that


----------



## damex

slaterlovesspam said:


> Most (if not all) 2-pin cables NOT designed for KZ IEMs use 0.78mm pins. All KZ models (except an early version of the ZS3) use 0.75mm pins.
> 
> While the 0.78mm pinned cables technically fit, it will "stretch out" the sockets on the KZ so the KZ cables will no longer work and will be loose and fall out.
> 
> So the general rule of thumb I recommend is _"once you go non-KZ ie 0.78mm, you must stay non-KZ ie 0.78mm"_.


awesome! thank you. i will stick to normal cables (permanently?)


----------



## Saoshyant

@damex Rose Technology also uses .75mm 2-pin on some of their IEMs, but tend to be quite expensive.


----------



## Slater

damex said:


> awesome! thank you. i will stick to normal cables (permanently?)



Sure, NP.

BTW, stick to normal cables as in normal KZ 0.75mm, or normal as in non-KZ 0.78mm cables?


----------



## Slater

Saoshyant said:


> @damex Rose Technology also uses .75mm 2-pin on some of their IEMs, but tend to be quite expensive.



Cool, I was unaware. Thanks for the clarification Saoshyant.


----------



## Saoshyant

slaterlovesspam said:


> Cool, I was unaware. Thanks for the clarification Saoshyant.



Rose can at times be plagued with QC issues, which might explain why when I tried using a KZ cable with it all sub-bass was lacking.  It's been awhile however, so I might want to retest that at some point.  I've never had the issue with the 4 Rose cables I've used.  I was also in the middle of tip swapping to find my preferred for it, so tiredness might have caused two changed variables and only left me remembering one.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Listening to the Timestretch album... The ES3s like edm


----------



## Selenium

Picked up a ZS6. Partially because I love the look of the Andromeda. Yet cannot afford an Andromeda.


----------



## Slater

Selenium said:


> Picked up a ZS6. Partially because I love the look of the Andromeda. Yet cannot afford an Andromeda.



So wait a minute. Are you saying that in a way, you're a future Andromeda customer because of the ZS6?


----------



## damex

slaterlovesspam said:


> Sure, NP.
> 
> BTW, stick to normal cables as in normal KZ 0.75mm, or normal as in non-KZ 0.78mm cables?


normal as is non-kz 0.78mm 
i don't want to have different cables


----------



## Asimov90

Are there any reviews or detailed impressions about the ES3? I would like to know which one suits better my taste between the ZST and ES3. I cannot make up my mind about them. 
I want good bass with clear upfront vocals and not piercing highs.


----------



## HungryPanda

The ES3 has good bass and the highs are fine. I prefer them over the ZST


----------



## groucho69

slaterlovesspam said:


> So wait a minute. Are you saying that in a way, you're a future Andromeda customer because of the ZS6?


----------



## Slater

damex said:


> normal as is non-kz 0.78mm
> i don't want to have different cables



Gotcha.

Be aware that you're going to have to really press the cable on the 1st time (because you are spreading the female pins out basically).


----------



## Slater (Sep 16, 2017)

groucho69 said:


>



haha, I was just joking around. I already saw Brooko's reminder to behave LOL :0)


----------



## vector84

damex said:


> normal as is non-kz 0.78mm
> i don't want to have different cables





slaterlovesspam said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> Be aware that you're going to have to really press the cable on the 1st time (because you are spreading the female pins out basically).


You should probably insert the 0.75mm cable at least once before switching over to 0.78mm to make the process easier.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> You should probably insert the 0.75mm cable at least once before switching over to 0.78mm to make the process easier.



Good call. I just assumed the stock cables were already installed.

But yeah, a fresh out of the box set should have the stock cables inserted to at least get the pins a little spread out.


----------



## NeonHD

Man these ATE S is really starting to grow on me, now I truly understand why people say its musical, which is mostly due to the ultra detailed mids. Usually when I think of detail in music I think of the really high frequencies, but never have I experienced such great detail in the mids. I was shocked to hear sounds that I never even noticed before with the ATE-S. For example I could distinctively make out the reverb in a track or some tiny percussion sound that you normally wouldn't be able to recognize. 

The ED9 and the ATE-S are going to make an excellent duo. If I want micro-detail in the highs I'll choose the ED9, on the other hand if I want micro-detail in the mids I'll choose the ATE-S.


----------



## Francisk

sfztcar said:


> Is there a source to buy KZ Starline tips?  The official store on AE only appears to stock the foam tips.
> 
> If I can't buy the tips alone, is there a list of KZ IEMs that ship w/ Starlines?


Link to Starline tips at AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...lgo_pvid=7e95da4e-67ad-4ceb-a677-55a9d646e91f


----------



## Francisk (Sep 16, 2017)

Asimov90 said:


> Are there any reviews or detailed impressions about the ES3? I would like to know which one suits better my taste between the ZST and ES3. I cannot make up my mind about them.
> I want good bass with clear upfront vocals and not piercing highs.


ES3: http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-es3/

ZST: http://www.aproear.co.uk/zst-hybrid/


----------



## Asimov90

Francisk said:


> ES3: http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-es3/
> 
> ZST: http://www.aproear.co.uk/zst-hybrid/



Great in depth reviews. Just what I was looking for. I suppose I'll go with the ES3. Bassier, with no piercing highs, improved vocals, it should sound much better than KZ ZST...


----------



## snip3r77

slaterlovesspam said:


> Most (if not all) 2-pin cables NOT designed for KZ IEMs use 0.78mm pins. All KZ models (except an early version of the ZS3) use 0.75mm pins.
> 
> While the 0.78mm pinned cables technically fit, it will "stretch out" the sockets on the KZ so the KZ cables will no longer work and will be loose and fall out.
> 
> So the general rule of thumb I recommend is _"once you go non-KZ ie 0.78mm, you must stay non-KZ ie 0.78mm"_.



IIRC .78 is the industrial standard.


----------



## wastan

Just got my Bluetooth cable in the mail today. My ZS3 is the old version so no joy there but I kinda expected that anyway. On the ZS5 my initial impression is not bad sounding at all. More than adequate for a workout setup. Unfortunately, I'd hoped pair it with a Benjie K8. The BT implementation on the K8 seems super-kludged together but it does work. Pairing went OK but when the device moved to arms length away from the KZ module everything just crashed. No connection lost indicator from either device but no sound.

This was disappointing so I connected the KZ Bluetooth to my Kindle 7" HDX tablet. Here, there was no disconnect even walking from room to room about the house. Then I connected the Benjie to a pair of audsom M05 APTX. Again, no lost connection walking about the house.

As for sound, my first day impression is that I prefer the KZ module to the audsom though that comparison--over ears vs. IEM doesn't mean much.

Will report more as I play with the KZ's battery life.


----------



## Asimov90

wastan said:


> Just got my Bluetooth cable in the mail today. My ZS3 is the old version so no joy there but I kinda expected that anyway. On the ZS5 my initial impression is not bad sounding at all. More than adequate for a workout setup. Unfortunately, I'd hoped pair it with a Benjie K8. The BT implementation on the K8 seems super-kludged together but it does work. Pairing went OK but when the device moved to arms length away from the KZ module everything just crashed. No connection lost indicator from either device but no sound.
> 
> This was disappointing so I connected the KZ Bluetooth to my Kindle 7" HDX tablet. Here, there was no disconnect even walking from room to room about the house. Then I connected the Benjie to a pair of audsom M05 APTX. Again, no lost connection walking about the house.
> 
> ...



Good to know the Bluetooth cable does work ok, I think I'm gonna buy one along with the ES3, according to some it has better bass, vocals and mids than the ZST. Hopefully the battery lasts at least 4 hours.


----------



## Francisk

Asimov90 said:


> Great in depth reviews. Just what I was looking for. I suppose I'll go with the ES3. Bassier, with no piercing highs, improved vocals, it should sound much better than KZ ZST...


Just a reminder that the ES3 is a pretty bright IEM but I manage to tame the high frequency peaks successfully with the Comply T400 tips. Just be aware that this method works for me therefore your mileage may vary depending on the fit of the tips for your ear.


----------



## Asimov90

Thanks, I'll use T400 foam tips with the ES3 then, I've always found them more comfortable anyways.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 17, 2017)

Asimov90 said:


> Good to know the Bluetooth cable does work ok, I think I'm gonna buy one along with the ES3, according to some it has better bass, vocals and mids than the ZST. Hopefully the battery lasts at least 4 hours.


Do make sure that you're getting the latest KZ wireless cable with Bluetooth v4.2 support. That's the version that has a very stable connection. There are some older Bluetooth v4.1 which many complained about still floating around. I posted a photo on the new version in the past under this thread.


----------



## Asimov90

Francisk said:


> Do make sure that you're getting the latest KZ wireless cable with Bluetooth v4.2 support. That's the version that has a very stable connection. There are some older Bluetooth v4.1 which many complained about still floating around. I posted a photo on the new version in the past under this thread.



Do you know if they're selling the newest version at Gearbest? That's where I buy.


----------



## Selenium

slaterlovesspam said:


> So wait a minute. Are you saying that in a way, you're a future Andromeda customer because of the ZS6?



Don't poke the bear! In another thread someone compared the Andromeda to the Sony EX1000, which I used to own, and the Sony came out on top. So as much as I find the Andromedas absolutely ravishing they maybe aren't a great value proposition? So I'll probably never pick them up.


----------



## HungryPanda (Sep 17, 2017)

Some people  love the Andromedas but I think they area waste of money,  so many other earphones  you could buy


----------



## randomnin

Yes, yes, like ZS5 and ZS6, and ZS10 and every other Andromeda knockoff ever to be devised!


----------



## snip3r77

Selenium said:


> Don't poke the bear! In another thread someone compared the Andromeda to the Sony EX1000, which I used to own, and the Sony came out on top. So as much as I find the Andromedas absolutely ravishing they maybe aren't a great value proposition? So I'll probably never pick them up.


Just pick the zs6


----------



## Francisk

Asimov90 said:


> Do you know if they're selling the newest version at Gearbest? That's where I buy.


I'm not sure about GearBest but I purchased mine through AliExpress. You may contact the seller from GearBest to verify before they ship hopefully.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 17, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> Some people  love the Andromedas but I think they area waste of money,  so many other earphones  you could buy


I was at E-Earphone Akihabara Tokyo last year and tested the CA Andromeda and the Dynamic Motion DM200H and purchased the DM200H instead. I was actually going to purchase the Andromeda earlier but after listening to the DM200H, I just fell in love with the DM200H sound quality which actually over shadow the Andromeda at about 4 times the price.


----------



## ioques

sfztcar said:


> Is there a source to buy KZ Starline tips?  The official store on AE only appears to stock the foam tips.
> 
> If I can't buy the tips alone, is there a list of KZ IEMs that ship w/ Starlines?


Is this you are looking for?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/253021037529
For me, this is perfect because I only use one size and Starlines are perfect fit to my ears.


----------



## sghound

Francisk said:


> I was at E-Earphone Akihabara last year and tested the CA Andromeda and the Dynamic Motion DM200H and purchased the DM200H instead. I was actually going to purchase the Andromeda earlier but after listening to the DM200H, I just fell in love with the DM200H sound quality which actually over shadow the Andromeda at about 1/4 the price.



yep the 200H is prolly the best sounding iem i have heard at any price currently.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Selenium said:


> Picked up a ZS6. Partially because I love the look of the Andromeda. Yet cannot afford an Andromeda.


Lol!
#CampfireGate


----------



## Fox2twenty

Francisk said:


> Just a reminder that the ES3 is a pretty bright IEM but I manage to tame the high frequency peaks successfully with the Comply T400 tips. Just be aware that this method works for me therefore your mileage may vary depending on the fit of the tips for your ear.


I am using ES3 this week instead of zs5.. I think it's pretty great. I also use T400s.


----------



## Asimov90

Fox2twenty said:


> I am using ES3 this week instead of zs5.. I think it's pretty great. I also use T400s.



Do you find it bright? What about the bass and fit? I'm on the brink of buying it but there's too little difference in price between it and the ZS5 that I don't know anymore which one to buy.


----------



## Keller2

Asimov90 said:


> Do you find it bright? What about the bass and fit? I'm on the brink of buying it but there's too little difference in price between it and the ZS5 that I don't know anymore which one to buy.



KZ ES3 is $9.99 with the KZES3 coupon. So it's cheaper.

Also definitely the ES3. Better build, (IMO) Better sound.


----------



## Asimov90

Keller2 said:


> KZ ES3 is $9.99 with the KZES3 coupon. So it's cheaper.
> 
> Also definitely the ES3. Better build, (IMO) Better sound.



Thanks, the ES3 it is.


----------



## ricemanhk

Funny thing happened...I was in a shop the other day listening to my ZS5 and the shop owner said to me "nice campfires"...LOL
I then told him all about KZ. 

I don't like the copycat aspect for the shell, but it's pretty standard fare in China unfortunately...although things are improving, look at how far xiaomi has come.


----------



## Chief Stringer

Can anyone give a comparison of the old gold tip ZS1 and the ZSE mostly in terms of bass but overall signature and quality too? I miss the stupid amounts of bass from the gold / non mesh ZS1


----------



## VinceHill24

ricemanhk said:


> Funny thing happened...I was in a shop the other day listening to my ZS5 and the shop owner said to me "nice campfires"...LOL
> I then told him all about KZ.
> 
> I don't like the copycat aspect for the shell, but it's pretty standard fare in China unfortunately...although things are improving, look at how far xiaomi has come.


Lol seriously ?! I would have thought that the shop owner probably being sarcastic to me. I hope someday KZ will make its new proper non generic shell design with properly tuned dynamic instead of falling for the number of drivers game. 

They currently seems to be thinking this more drivers marketing works better and generates more profit for them and i believe it's quite true seeing how majority of "audiophiles" reacting to when they heard about more drivers


----------



## Fox2twenty

Asimov90 said:


> Do you find it bright? What about the bass and fit? I'm on the brink of buying it but there's too little difference in price between it and the ZS5 that I don't know anymore which one to buy.


More bass than ZS5. But less Soundstage. Part of the reason I haven't switched back yet is because I find the ES3 more comfortable.

Generally, they both are v shape and have the similar treble/upper mids that we like and some people hate.


----------



## Fox2twenty

So... I finally saw what the CA Andromedas look like. Lol.


----------



## peskypesky (Sep 17, 2017)

VinceHill24 said:


> They currently seems to be thinking this more drivers marketing works better and generates more profit for them and i believe it's quite true seeing how majority of "audiophiles" reacting to when they heard about more drivers



more drivers...good


----------



## Fox2twenty

peskypesky said:


> more drivers...good


I love it. Look at all those ribbon tweeters.


----------



## Fox2twenty (Sep 17, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> more drivers...good


Dude bro. I want the ones that bend backwards.


----------



## Fox2twenty

72 tweeters guyz...

72 and you can build it as a hobby kit..


----------



## CoiL (Sep 17, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> Man these ATE S is really starting to grow on me, *now I truly understand why people say its musical, which is mostly due to the ultra detailed mids. Usually when I think of detail in music I think of the really high frequencies, but never have I experienced such great detail in the mids.* I was shocked to hear sounds that I never even noticed before with the ATE-S. For example I could distinctively make out the reverb in a track or some tiny percussion sound that you normally wouldn't be able to recognize.



Welcome to the Ddynamic-house of KZ family!  You should try ATE 5th gen with golden cable weights too. Maybe ATE-S has had some newer revisions too but as far I know they should be bassier than regular ATE.

I modded my ATE 1st gen and 5th gen... haven`t had better DD sound so far (especially in mids) and they are "on par"with some 3x higher priced hybrids I`ve tried (but those hybrids don`t make such beautiful mids as ATE does). Only better mids I`ve heard in "IEM" is VE Asura 2.0 but they are earbuds.

Edit:

Btw, been reading this thread lately and seems ZS5 has done some revisions to worse (piercing double-hi-freq-BAs in nozzle). I got 1st gen ZS5 with stock cable and 1BA in nozzle... absolutely love them and haven`t experienced any hiss or other weird problems ppl mention.
Want to get another ZS5 for wood modification backup but not so sure I can get same quality ZS5 anymore.
I quess I`ll need to jump on with ZS6 but comments so far make me think they are something like LZ A2S - too near front inside headstage mids and too far stretched out soundstage on sides.
I hope that`s not the case bc I really love my ZS5 sound and I think they are best KZ so far I`ve had. Btw guys, You should try these tips for ZS5 if starlines don`t work: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html
(originally those tips were used @ Huast H10).


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Welcome to the Ddynamic-house of KZ family!  You should try ATE 5th gen with golden cable weights too. Maybe ATE-S has had some newer revisions too but as far I know they should be bassier than regular ATE.
> 
> I modded my ATE 1st gen and 5th gen... haven`t had better DD sound so far (especially in mids) and they are "on par"with some 3x higher priced hybrids I`ve tried.


I'm still in love with my ATE 1st gen unmodded. It's so sweet...


----------



## CoiL (Sep 17, 2017)

Wish more ppl would do such crazy mods I did to ATE ;D incredible bass/percussion response and details additionally to cleared up mids ;P

Snap from the past:


----------



## Fox2twenty

CoiL said:


> Wish more ppl would do such crazy mods I did to ATE ;D incredible bass/percussion response and details additionally to cleared up mids ;P


Is that the "Ff mod" in your signature?


----------



## CoiL

Fox2twenty said:


> Is that the "Ff mod" in your signature?


Yep  Look @ my gallery for more pics and mod description.


----------



## Fox2twenty

CoiL said:


> Yep  Look @ my gallery for more pics and mod description.


Very cool. BTW, happy 1k to me.


----------



## Griffith (Sep 17, 2017)

If you'll indulge me in a bit of humor I was thinking of a title for my review of the ZS5 while listening to a track and then decided to try to write it in the form of an alteration of its lyrics.

I hope you take it in the light-hearted manner it is meant to be taken in.

If you are interested, these lyrics should be read at the Rhythm of Florence + The Machine's - How Big, How Blue, How Beautiful (Spotify link)









Spoiler: How Big, How Blue, How Disputable



Between a beloved brand and the head-fi thread, we decided to get hurt
Now there are a few opinions we have to burn
Set our hearts ablaze, and the treble was a gift
And every high was like a kiss upon the lips
And I was enjoying the bliss
In every high

How big, how blue, how disputable
How big, how blue, how disputable

And meanwhile a bass was bleeding from the lows
In every track I felt his bloat
Like a diarrhea around the mids
That bleeds inside the mids
And meanwhile a bass was bleeding from the lows
As he hit the mids I made a weird face
Let the bleed surround the mids
The treble choked under the mist

What are we gonna do?
We've ordered so many, now they're all coming through
Tell me you hear it too
We opened our ears, these should get a curfew
Oh, what are we gonna do?
We ordered so many now, they're all coming through

How big, how blue, how disputable
How big, how blue, how disputable

And every treble was a gift
And every high was like a kiss upon the lips
And I was making you a wish
In every high
And meanwhile a low was falling from the bass
In every track I felt your bass
Like a diarrhea on the mids
I'm sad you're taking the piss

What are we gonna do?
We've ordered so many, now they're all coming through
Tell me you hear it too
We opened our ears, these should get a curfew
Oh, what are we gonna do?
We ordered so many now, they're all coming through

How big, how blue, how disputable
How big, how blue, how uncomfortable
How big, ow ear!, ow

So much time on the other chi-fis
Waiting for you to be released
So much time on the other chi-fis
Waiting for you to be released
Maybe I'll see you in another shell
If this one wasn't enough
Maybe ZS6 won't bleed on the bassy side

How big, ow ear, how uncomfortable
How big, ow ear, ow


----------



## Selenium

Griffith said:


> If you'll indulge me in a bit of humor I was thinking of a title for my review of the ZS5 while listening to a track and then decided to try to write it in the form of an alteration of its lyrics.
> 
> I hope you take it in the light-hearted manner it is meant to be taken in.
> 
> ...



I like it! I've been listening to that album lately some too...


----------



## Fox2twenty

Griffith said:


> If you'll indulge me in a bit of humor I was thinking of a title for my review of the ZS5 while listening to a track and then decided to try to write it in the form of an alteration of its lyrics.
> 
> I hope you take it in the light-hearted manner it is meant to be taken in.
> 
> ...



This is amazing


----------



## wastan

Francisk said:


> Do make sure that you're getting the latest KZ wireless cable with Bluetooth v4.2 support. That's the version that has a very stable connection. There are some older Bluetooth v4.1 which many complained about still floating around. I posted a photo on the new version in the past under this thread.



Confirmed I'm working with the 4.2 cable.


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2017)

wastan said:


> Just got my Bluetooth cable in the mail today. My ZS3 is the old version so no joy there but I kinda expected that anyway. On the ZS5 my initial impression is not bad sounding at all. More than adequate for a workout setup. Unfortunately, I'd hoped pair it with a Benjie K8. The BT implementation on the K8 seems super-kludged together but it does work. Pairing went OK but when the device moved to arms length away from the KZ module everything just crashed. No connection lost indicator from either device but no sound.
> 
> This was disappointing so I connected the KZ Bluetooth to my Kindle 7" HDX tablet. Here, there was no disconnect even walking from room to room about the house. Then I connected the Benjie to a pair of audsom M05 APTX. Again, no lost connection walking about the house.
> 
> ...



I think your cable is defective. But you could always try this mod because it should help even the 4.2 module:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1284#post-13623298


----------



## Slater

Francisk said:


> I was at E-Earphone Akihabara Tokyo last year and tested the CA Andromeda and the Dynamic Motion DM200H and purchased the DM200H instead. I was actually going to purchase the Andromeda earlier but after listening to the DM200H, I just fell in love with the DM200H sound quality which actually over shadow the Andromeda at about 4 times the price.





sghound said:


> yep the 200H is prolly the best sounding iem i have heard at any price currently.



Pretty cool layout - very compact and efficient use of space:


----------



## Slater

Chief Stringer said:


> Can anyone give a comparison of the old gold tip ZS1 and the ZSE mostly in terms of bass but overall signature and quality too? I miss the stupid amounts of bass from the gold / non mesh ZS1



I have both of these and will post up a comparison later tonight.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Wish more ppl would do such crazy mods I did to ATE ;D incredible bass/percussion response and details additionally to cleared up mids ;P
> 
> Snap from the past:



Here's mine (thanks to your idea):


----------



## Chief Stringer

slaterlovesspam said:


> I have both of these and will post up a comparison later tonight.



Ok thanks man looking forward to it


----------



## TimeSnow

slaterlovesspam said:


> Here's mine (thanks to your idea):


How'd you guys do that?


----------



## Fox2twenty

TimeSnow said:


> How'd you guys do that?


Good question


----------



## groucho69

TimeSnow said:


> How'd you guys do that?


----------



## Francisk (Sep 17, 2017)

slaterlovesspam said:


> Pretty cool layout - very compact and efficient use of space:


Yes, the coaxial hybrid design of the drivers actually produce a very coherent sound with fantastic frequency extension at both ends on the DM200H. I'm amazed by the sound of this 1 dynamic + 1 BA drivers hybrid.


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2017)

TimeSnow said:


> How'd you guys do that?





Fox2twenty said:


> Good question






J/k

Here you go - it's really very easy (my version at least - Coil's is fancier because he's got way madder skills than me, but if you do a search he shows how he did his too): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1106#post-13350513

Coil's impressive skills: https://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/workshop.871146/


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> J/k
> 
> Here you go - it's really very easy (my version at least - Coil's is fancier because he's got way madder skills than me, but if you do a search he shows how he did his too): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1106#post-13350513


Thank you sir. I've always wanted to get into modding.. This way I can start cheap!


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> Thank you sir. I've always wanted to get into modding.. This way I can start cheap!



Yeah, this is a really easy mod to perform (like 3.5 out of 10 difficulty), and the ATE can be bought really cheap. I used a Dremel to cut the hole in the cover. Just don't use super glue to put the shells back together, or else it will get all cloudy and will deposit an unwanted film on the drivers. Stick with 2-part epoxy applied with a toothpick, or something like Lazer Bond. You can use a small drop of the same glue to seal off the nozzle port as well (ie 2-part epoxy or Laser Bond).

Be sure to post up your handiwork and impressions if you do it!


----------



## Fox2twenty

slaterlovesspam said:


> Yeah, this is a really easy mod to perform, and the ATE can be bought really cheap. I used a Dremel to cut the hole in the cover. Just don't use super glue to put the shells back together, or else it will get all cloudy and will deposit an unwanted film on the drivers. Stick with 2-part epoxy applied with a toothpick, or something like Lazer Bond. You can use a small drop of the same glue to seal off the nozzle port as well (ie 2-part epoxy or Laser Bond).
> 
> Be sure to post up your handiwork and impressions if you do it!


So it's just a giant vent?


----------



## slackerpo

tested on the field the 4.2 bt cable, and it performs pretty good. ocassional hick ups here and there, this is my first time with bt audio since like 7 or 8 years. things have come a long way, but i pretty sure it can get even better.

havent been able to test aptx, even though my 6p shows me the option, but it wont support it. 

for the price i think this cable is a no brainer.


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> So it's just a giant vent?



Yes, just like the ZS6.


----------



## Fox2twenty

slackerpo said:


> tested on the field the 4.2 bt cable, and it performs pretty good. ocassional hick ups here and there, this is my first time with bt audio since like 7 or 8 years. things have come a long way, but i pretty sure it can get even better.
> 
> havent been able to test aptx, even though my 6p shows me the option, but it wont support it.
> 
> for the price i think this cable is a no brainer.


4.2 and a no brainer.. I think I will have to try.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wow. ES3s are better after burn in. More bass.


----------



## NeonHD (Sep 18, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Wish more ppl would do such crazy mods I did to ATE ;D incredible bass/percussion response and details additionally to cleared up mids ;P
> 
> Snap from the past:



Any other mods that I could possibly do, which doesn't involve butchering my beloved ATE-S? 

Also I don't know how many times I've said this already but I'm really in love with these IEMs 

Listening to them even more I've found that the soundstage on the ATE-S is quite something special. Usually in most songs I listen to it doesn't extend too far out but it's not inside your head either, the sounds feel like they're located just right outside of your head, making the whole listening experience feel intimate yet immersive. But in certain songs I can feel that the soundstage can get quite huge.


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> Here's mine (thanks to your idea):



Did You change Your ATE nozzles too (ED9 brass nozzles)?


----------



## trumpethead

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and can believe what they want to believe without enforcing it upon others.....now can we get back on topic before the mods come a knocking


----------



## Slater (Sep 18, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Did You change Your ATE nozzles too (ED9 brass nozzles)?



No they are stock except for the grille and sealing the vent hole at the nozzle

That's a good idea though (heck, for a lot of IEMs). Did you do it (and if so, did you maintain the overall length of the stock nozzle or change the length?) I can't tell from the photos you originally posted of the mod.


----------



## rendyG

slaterlovesspam said:


> No they are stock except for the grille and sealing the vent hole at the nozzle
> 
> That's a good idea though (heck, for a lot of IEMs). Did you do it (and if so, did you maintain the overall length of the stock nozzle or change the length?) I can't tell from the photos you originally posted of the mod.


How do you pull apart the ATE shells pls? I dont want to destroy them


----------



## TimeSnow

Got my ZSTs through the door this morning.

First impressions after a few hours of burning in are very good. 

The bass is a lot less dominant than I was expecting! Compared to the the Sound Intone E6s it's much much much more balanced. I do see why people would upgrade the cable. Will have to spend more time with them to write anything like a review, but so far I'm pretty impressed!

I have the ZS3s incoming, as well as a few more Chi-Fi earphones... Should be a fun week!

Oh and hey, these ZSTs came with the starliner tips... and man, so much nicer than the ones with the SI E6s. Night and day. Should through them on the E6s and see what happens.

So in fact I just did that... much nicer... really change the tonality... weird... The midrange is a LOT more pronounced I think. Hmm... need to experiment more! 

Anyway, pretty impressed with the ZSTs for the price! Have a two hour walk ahead of me today, and will try the ZSTs for an hours and then the E6s... see what I can discover.


----------



## TimeSnow

What's a good upgrade cable for these?


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> No they are stock except for the grille and sealing the vent hole at the nozzle
> 
> That's a good idea though (heck, for a lot of IEMs). Did you do it (and if so, did you maintain the overall length of the stock nozzle or change the length?) I can't tell from the photos you originally posted of the mod.



Yes, I installed ED9 brass nozzles. Overall length of nozzle is 1-2mm shorter which makes them more comfort for me. Main difference is nozzle inner diameter size - which, with ED9 nozzles increases noticeably - making mids and highs more clear and present and reduces bass boominess and presence. I also tuned ED9 nozzle tips little with grinding the edge into "trompet" shape. You can`t see ed9 nozzles on pic bc of tips (but relfection through black plastic is noticeably if You look closely.
1st You need to cut off smaller diameter nozzle part and then build special bracket for drilling-bench to hold ATE shells in place and drill only deep as ED9 nozzle winding is. Any further may cause membrane braking.


----------



## snip3r77

Can't be only 1 dude gotten the zs6 right?


----------



## Fox2twenty

snip3r77 said:


> Can't be only 1 dude gotten the zs6 right?


Well.. We need to hear from Asia head-fiers.


----------



## crabdog

Francisk said:


> Yes, the coaxial hybrid design of the drivers actually produce a very coherent sound with fantastic frequency extension at both ends on the DM200H. I'm amazed by the sound of this 1 dynamic + 1 BA drivers hybrid.


I agree the DM200H is a nice IEM. I haven't spent a great deal of time with it yet but plan to over the coming weeks.


----------



## zozito

OFC cable down on price, buying from aliexpress app:
Lo nuevo Original KZ ZS6/ZS5/ZS6/ZS3/ED12 Plateado Cable OFC De Alta Pureza Cable de Actualización 0.75mm Para Auriculares KZ
http://s.aliexpress.com/6rUZF32e 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## vector84

zozito said:


> OFC cable down on price, buying from aliexpress app:
> Lo nuevo Original KZ ZS6/ZS5/ZS6/ZS3/ED12 Plateado Cable OFC De Alta Pureza Cable de Actualización 0.75mm Para Auriculares KZ
> [REDACTED]
> (from AliExpress Android)


I could be wrong, but I don't think you're supposed to link that seller around here?

Also I found what appears to be an even cheaper price with a vaguely dubious description... 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...nning-Sport-Earphone-Earplug/32833059069.html

No idea about that seller though... guess I'll find out in a few weeks


----------



## Superluc (Sep 18, 2017)

TimeSnow said:


> What's a good upgrade cable for these?


The newer is the one tell on the previous post, by zozito and vector. Seem to be oxygen free.

This one have better looking plugs, but the cable may become green, with oxidation


----------



## TimeSnow

Superluc said:


> The newer is the one tell on the previous post, by zozito and vector. Seem to be oxygen free.
> 
> This one have better looking plugs, but the cable may become green, with oxidation


Thanks! 

I have to wait until the show up on amazon... But the top one is the one I'll eventually buy I think!


----------



## vector84 (Sep 18, 2017)

TimeSnow said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have to wait until the show up on amazon... But the top one is the one I'll eventually buy I think!


Just an fyi, the ones that Superluc linked were on Amazon last I checked, but they're meant for the ZST so you'd probably want to modify them slightly for long-term use.

I was eyeing a gold ZS5 cable but they never showed up on Amazon - those OFC cables look even better though. 

The OFC are already on Amazon btw, but still shipped from China too and double the price. 
(from what I've seen that seller gets a lot of their stuff fulfilled by Amazon eventually though, so if that's what you're looking for, it might happen in a few weeks)


----------



## TimeSnow

vector84 said:


> Just an fyi, the ones that Superluc linked were on Amazon last I checked, but they're meant for the ZST so you'd probably want to modify them slightly for long-term use.
> 
> I was eyeing a gold ZS5 cable but they never showed up on Amazon - those OFC cables look even better though.
> 
> ...



I'm in ireland and finding one of these that ships to Ireland is... challenging. Grr...

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> but they're meant for the ZST so you'd probably want to modify them slightly for long-term use.


the question was for the ZST


----------



## dbaker1981

I have the one that superluc recommended and no matter how I connected them on the zs5 it made the mids and highs sound very distant.


----------



## zozito

vector84 said:


> I could be wrong, but I don't think you're supposed to link that seller around here?
> 
> Also I found what appears to be an even cheaper price with a vaguely dubious description...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...nning-Sport-Earphone-Earplug/32833059069.html
> ...



No, I just had that one in my favourite list of aliexpress and got into account of price drop.


----------



## vector84

zozito said:


> No, I just had that one in my favourite list of aliexpress and got into account of price drop.


Mmm could be a regional thing, but the one I linked is 42 cents cheaper for me ($7.40) 
There's another one listed 20 cents cheaper than that from a seller with very little feedback too 

But like I said, I don't think we're supposed to link that seller or speak of them other than in general terms like "a banned seller", "he who shall not be named", "Voldemort"


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> The newer is the one tell on the previous post, by zozito and vector. Seem to be oxygen free.
> 
> This one have better looking plugs, but the cable may become green, with oxidation


Very cool


----------



## TJK81

Fox2twenty said:


> Very cool


Good cable. Looks great in real. No microfonic. Little bit heavy. I did not hear significant difference compare to stock cable. But overall really cool.


----------



## Fox2twenty

TJK81 said:


> Good cable. Looks great in real. No microfonic. Little bit heavy. I did not hear significant difference compare to stock cable. But overall really cool.


It says "ZST", will it work for ZS5 and ES3?


----------



## zozito

vector84 said:


> Mmm could be a regional thing, but the one I linked is 42 cents cheaper for me ($7.40)
> There's another one listed 20 cents cheaper than that from a seller with very little feedback too
> 
> But like I said, I don't think we're supposed to link that seller or speak of them other than in general terms like "a banned seller", "he who shall not be named", "Voldemort"



Well...ok. I did not understand well...sorry, I'm from Spain.


----------



## Lord Rexter (Sep 18, 2017)

TJK81 said:


> Good cable. Looks great in real. No microfonic. Little bit heavy. I did not hear significant difference compare to stock cable. But overall really cool.



To add to that the cable works well with ZS5, ES3, ZST, ED12. So you won't go wrong with it, expect for the oxidization issue.

Here a pic with ES3:


----------



## vector84

Lord Rexter said:


> To add to that the cable works well with ZS5, ES3, ZST, ED12. So you won't go wrong with it, expect for the oxidization issue.
> 
> Here a pic with ES3:


Well they should definitely fit the ES3 since it uses a ZST style cable.

A couple people have commented on them in regards to the ZS5 - if I recall, I believe one person had no trouble with them, while another found they had to cut down the thin plastic section of the connector to get a good fit?  But I don't have them in-hand to speak to the subject personally.


----------



## Lord Rexter

vector84 said:


> Well they should definitely fit the ES3 since it uses a ZST style cable.
> 
> A couple people have commented on them in regards to the ZS5 - if I recall, I believe one person had no trouble with them, while another found they had to cut down the thin plastic section of the connector to get a good fit?  But I don't have them in-hand to speak to the subject personally.



I was able to get them on ZS3 by cutting the edge a little bit. But the fitting was not as secure as ZS5/ZST.


----------



## Gianluigib (Sep 18, 2017)

hi guys , after a month of use my left side of zs5 doesn't work anymore, how can i do ?? i think is the insert of the pins, thanks


----------



## hakuzen (Sep 18, 2017)

measured DC resistance of some of these cables.
silver plated more cores, metallic jack: 0.45Ω
old silver plated upgrade for zs3/zs5/zs6 (i guess the zst one is similar): 0.67Ω
stock zs3 cable (mic version): 0.86Ω
stock zst cable (mic version): 0.87Ω

the lower the resistance, the better, specially for ultra low impedance earphones, like zs5.
i haven't already got zs5 nor zs6, but when trying to plug any zst cable into zs3, it doesn't fit easily: the pins of these zst cables are a bit wider than zs3 ones.

Edit. not impedance but DC resistance, thanks to @vector84 :
"a simplistic approximation of impedance @1kHz would be around 15% less"


----------



## TimeSnow

Just ordered this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B073XKKH4P/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item

We'll see how many weeks that takes to get to Ireland.


----------



## TimeSnow

hakuzen said:


> measured impedance of some of these cables.
> silver plated more cores, metallic jack: 0.45Ω
> old silver plated upgrade for zs3/zs5/zs6 (i guess the zst one is similar): 0.67Ω
> stock zs3 cable: 0.84Ω
> ...



I think I remember the zst ar .75 and the zs3 are .72 or .73... it's mentioned somewhere.

Very interesting results... I have the highest impedance of them all... should be a bigish change when the new cable shows up!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Straight plug = ZS3, ZS5

Angled plug = ZST, ES3


----------



## Superluc

dbaker1981 said:


> I have the one that superluc recommended and no matter how I connected them on the zs5 it made the mids and highs sound very distant.


It's clearly not supposed to do that. Probably the plug don't fit well enough, because they aren't for the ZS5, but for ZST and similar line ( like ES3 ). 

We are talking about cables that are a cheap upgrade but important for evade microphonics, have more durability and add a bit esthetic touch. "If" there is some sound impact, have to be marginal and for the best, because of the lighter impedance.


----------



## vector84

TimeSnow said:


> I think I remember the zst ar .75 and the zs3 are .72 or .73... it's mentioned somewhere.
> 
> Very interesting results... I have the highest impedance of them all... should be a bigish change when the new cable shows up!


I thought they were all 0.75mm except the first run ZS3s which were standard 0.78mm pins ?

I can tell you the first run ZS3s I received a couple weeks ago are indeed 0.78mm


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> Mmm could be a regional thing, but the one I linked is 42 cents cheaper for me ($7.40)
> There's another one listed 20 cents cheaper than that from a seller with very little feedback too
> 
> But like I said, I don't think we're supposed to link that seller or speak of them other than in general terms like "a banned seller", "he who shall not be named", "Voldemort"


----------



## Saoshyant

Pretty sure general terms are not allowed either, it's still discussion.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 18, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> measured impedance of some of these cables.
> silver plated more cores, metallic jack: 0.45Ω
> old silver plated upgrade for zs3/zs5/zs6 (i guess the zst one is similar): 0.67Ω
> stock zs3 cable (mic version): 0.86Ω
> ...


Neat, though is that DC resistance really?
(impedance is resistance to AC current and needs to be measured with respect to frequency).

Not that there should really be a difference between the two for cables but... just sayin 


To add a bit more to that: If those are DC resistance, a simplistic approximation of impedance @1kHz would be around 15% less.
(but that can't account for the supposed effects of braiding)


----------



## kirkftl

Are there ANY ZS5 cables that don't come with memory wire?


----------



## Adide

Only for KZ upper management.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 18, 2017)

kirkftl said:


> Are there ANY ZS5 cables that don't come with memory wire?


There's some aftermarket ones that claim to use 0.75mm pins in what appears to be a standard custom 2pin style housings that look like they don't have a memory wire.

EDIT: Oops, that one has a memory wire too.  Thought I saw some on ali, maybe not.
EDIT again: Ohh... I remember where I saw them... about that...  ... most of them are 0.78mm pins

Well, you can just strip it off yourself y'know


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Well they should definitely fit the ES3 since it uses a ZST style cable.
> 
> A couple people have commented on them in regards to the ZS5 - if I recall, I believe one person had no trouble with them, while another found they had to cut down the thin plastic section of the connector to get a good fit?  But I don't have them in-hand to speak to the subject personally.





Lord Rexter said:


> I was able to get them on ZS3 by cutting the edge a little bit. But the fitting was not as secure as ZS5/ZST.



Sounds like a good all around cable. Cool.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Fox2twenty said:


> Sounds like a good all around cable. Cool.



Yes it is


----------



## Fox2twenty

Lord Rexter said:


> Yes it is


Lol, awesome photo


----------



## Trebor1966

Lord Rexter said:


> Yes it is


Does the cable fit out of the box without mooding for the ZS5?


----------



## Lord Rexter

Trebor1966 said:


> Does the cable fit out of the box without mooding for the ZS5?



Yes it works right out of the box on ZS5. Hope this helps.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Lord Rexter said:


> Yes it works right out of the box on ZS5. Hope this helps.


Awesome news.. I have zs5 and ES3.


----------



## TimeSnow

Lord Rexter said:


> Yes it is


Hope those show up in the UK Amazon store soon... very cool!


----------



## hakuzen

vector84 said:


> Neat, though is that DC resistance really?
> (impedance is resistance to AC current and needs to be measured with respect to frequency).
> 
> Not that there should really be a difference between the two for cables but... just sayin
> ...


yes, it was DC resistance. edited my post. thank you!


----------



## gwompki

My ES3 is somewhere in my city for the past 3 days according to the tracking info, but still no delivery.  This was the first time I went with America Line SF shipping and the tracking info is kinda humorous.  It left China for NY.  Then when it arrived in country it said it went through the Los Angeles cross border check.  Then hours later it was in Elizabeth NJ, then ATL, and in my city for the past three days.  It's almost like the tracking info was fabricated lol.  Oh well it was quoted as 5-15 business days so there is still plenty of time.  So far it has only been 11...err 8 if you count when the package actually started moving.

Next time I will go back to America Line IB shipping as that seems to consistently be 10 business days from time of order to my house.

All that aside, I'm excited to try out the ES3


----------



## Fox2twenty

gwompki said:


> My ES3 is somewhere in my city for the past 3 days according to the tracking info, but still no delivery.  This was the first time I went with America Line SF shipping and the tracking info is kinda humorous.  It left China for NY.  Then when it arrived in country it said it went through the Los Angeles cross border check.  Then hours later it was in Elizabeth NJ, then ATL, and in my city for the past three days.  It's almost like the tracking info was fabricated lol.  Oh well it was quoted as 5-15 business days so there is still plenty of time.  So far it has only been 11...err 8 if you count when the package actually started moving.
> 
> Next time I will go back to America Line IB shipping as that seems to consistently be 10 business days from time of order to my house.
> 
> All that aside, I'm excited to try out the ES3


I like the ES3. It is like the ZS5 with more bass and less Soundstage.


----------



## Slater

Radek Jandl said:


> How do you pull apart the ATE shells pls? I dont want to destroy them



I used "vice grip" locking pliers (the method that a number of others also used to open the same model), which have an adjustable tension. I adjusted them so they fit the shell when closed. Then I opened them, adjusted the tension just a BARELY bit tighter. Then used them to squeeze the shell right at the seam. The halves pop right apart when using that method. Easiest shell I've ever opened.

If you're still confused, I can make a short video and post it up.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Yes, I installed ED9 brass nozzles. Overall length of nozzle is 1-2mm shorter which makes them more comfort for me. Main difference is nozzle inner diameter size - which, with ED9 nozzles increases noticeably - making mids and highs more clear and present and reduces bass boominess and presence. I also tuned ED9 nozzle tips little with grinding the edge into "trompet" shape. You can`t see ed9 nozzles on pic bc of tips (but relfection through black plastic is noticeably if You look closely.
> 1st You need to cut off smaller diameter nozzle part and then build special bracket for drilling-bench to hold ATE shells in place and drill only deep as ED9 nozzle winding is. Any further may cause membrane braking.



That's tits man, thanks for the info. I'll work on that this weekend.

You're right though - the stock nozzles on the ATE are looong.


----------



## CoiL

slaterlovesspam said:


> That's tits man, thanks for the info. I'll work on that this weekend.
> 
> You're right though - the stock nozzles on the ATE are looong.



Post pics if You are done  

Good luck and BE CAREFUL with drilling! Make sure drill-bench is on low rpm (to not to melt plastic) and lower drill head VERY slowly.


----------



## vector84

Y'know those resistance numbers struck me as a bit high so I went and did a little napkin math...

That should make them roughly equivalent to 30, 32 and 33 awg, right?

Is 33 awg really "good enough"? I admit my knowledge on the subject of audio cabling is limited but just from an electrical standpoint, given the power involved... I think that'd be in the neighborhood of 10-20+% voltage drop in the cables at the power ratings for the IEMs they're driving?  That doesn't seem great...
(and then if that math is right, I think anything besides the stock cable should be "good enough"?)

I can't help but wonder if this is an intentionally flawed design?


----------



## TimeSnow

My ZS3 (and the DZAT DF-10) just arrived. Woot!


----------



## dbaker1981

Superluc said:


> It's clearly not supposed to do that. Probably the plug don't fit well enough, because they aren't for the ZS5, but for ZST and similar line ( like ES3 ).
> 
> We are talking about cables that are a cheap upgrade but important for evade microphonics, have more durability and add a bit esthetic touch. "If" there is some sound impact, have to be marginal and for the best, because of the lighter impedance.






I tried it again yesterday and I think you were right. Cause now they sound the same.


----------



## Superluc

dbaker1981 said:


> I tried it again yesterday and I think you were right. Cause now they sound the same.


Good to hear that


----------



## Gianluigib

hi guys , after a month of use my left side of zs5 doesn't work anymore, how can i do ?? i think is the insert of the pins, thanks


----------



## hakuzen

vector84 said:


> Y'know those resistance numbers struck me as a bit high so I went and did a little napkin math...
> 
> That should make them roughly equivalent to 30, 32 and 33 awg, right?
> 
> ...



i don't know the equivalent awg, maybe different materials (types of copper, silver..) have different resistance coefficient, and guess that the contacts (jacks) also show some resistance.
but yes, not only the voltage/power drop but also the impedance interaction between the source and some low-impedance-high-sensitivity balanced armatures should concern us.

zs5 is 8Ω (even someone measured 4Ω or 5Ω and posted in this thread), 2xBA. i guess that's why people say they are source high dependent (bet they don't pair well with "high" output impedance sources -above 1Ω- nor with sources using low capacity coupling caps: too much tonal alterations). i've ordered zs5 v2 just to check that (and if so, to replace the pai audio mr3 from my test rig, wouldn't like to damage them).
so an appropriated source and lowest possible added resistance could be a must to preserve original zs5 tonality. when they arrive, i'll post the results.

my best cables are usually the thickest (total awg) and show the lowest DC resistance, regardless of being copper, silver plated, silver, ofc, 4N, 5N, 6N, 7N (most being longer than 1m or 1.2m), although i suppose that many other factors are involved (i know nothing..):
impact audio infinite (eidolic plugs), 5N copper, 4 strands: 0.19Ω
pure silver 7N 8 (narrow) cores: 0.29Ω
stock he400i cable: 0.34Ω
canare star quad L-4E6S (copper, 4 wires, pailics plugs): 0.05Ω (the thickest ones, maybe too stiff and heavy to be used with earphones; used as interconnection)
guess a good balance between flexibility, microphonics, and resistance should be the goal.


----------



## maxxevv

Gianluigib said:


> hi guys , after a month of use my left side of zs5 doesn't work anymore, how can i do ?? i think is the insert of the pins, thanks



If you have a multimeter, would suggest checking if there is a continuity in the circuit between the 2 pins when you unplug the cable.  Then check the continuity of the cable you're using for continuity.  

If its the latter, and the continuity for the earphone is fine, then its probably just a simple cable damage issue, you can get a replacement for them quite easily.  

If its the earphone not responding to continuity check, then its really if there is a warranty claim left for them though.


----------



## mrmoto050

Superluc said:


> This conversation IS pointless.
> 
> Campfire can legally defend itself, if they want. There is no need for us to spend time talking about that. Who cares ?
> 
> We are all here for talking about how we perceive sound, recommend something and try make an upgrade to what we listen.


+100


----------



## mrmoto050

Brooko said:


> [Mod Comment]
> 
> I've just edited some posts.  Can we please stop the debate about Campfire vs KZ. If Campfire chooses to take legal action, I have no doubt that KZ would be in breach - but that is their decision, and shouldn't be debated here - especially when it is leading to arguments.  If the conversation continues, I will have no choice but to take action.  No-one wants that.  Please get back to discussing the KZ earphones.  Thanks


Thank you, thank you Brooko!


----------



## Aevum

Im just wondering why the ZS5 is so divisive, 

50% of people say its the best thing since sliced bread, the other 50% say its the worst thing to happen to audio since Beats. 

Personaly, im liking them more then my Trinity Phantom Masters., (signature wise, the PM´s have slightly more detail)


----------



## maxxevv

They are source sensitive.  Generally, it seems that if you have a clean source with plenty of driving power, they sound better.  

Some people are listening to them with less than stellar sources and coupled with their sometime inconsistent quality control, it makes for some pretty varied responses to them it seems.


----------



## Aevum

Im using a Sony A35, tell you the truth, with the Benji S5 and the AGPTek Imp they sound a bit more muddy and uncontrolled.


----------



## maxxevv

Seems to concur with what I've observed ??


----------



## Slater

Aevum said:


> Im just wondering why the ZS5 is so divisive,
> 
> 50% of people say its the best thing since sliced bread, the other 50% say its the worst thing to happen to audio since Beats.
> 
> Personaly, im liking them more then my Trinity Phantom Masters., (signature wise, the PM´s have slightly more detail)



What maxxevv said. Plus some people plug then in out-of-phase, don't plug them in such that they are fully seated, and there are even a handful of QC issues with being *wired* out of phase from the factory (reports of cables being wired out of phase on 1 side, as well as reports of being wired out of phase internally within the shell).


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Don't forget that there's v2 now which doesn't seem to be looking as good as v1 either.


----------



## vector84

In fairness, very few people have the v2 yet and there have been a few very happy campers too.

I am starting to wonder if some of the widely varied opinions on the ZS5(v1) might be a wider swath of QC issues though...


Maybe combined with intentionally making them more source sensitive than they should be by picking a particularly insufficient cable material...


----------



## sghound

Aevum said:


> the other 50% say its the worst thing to happen to audio since Beats.



dun see this half tho.

mostly preaching to the choir in this thread.


----------



## Fox2twenty

sghound said:


> dun see this half tho.
> 
> mostly preaching to the choir in this thread.


Meh.

You really think you are the only one with ears?

Plenty of us use these headphones and have had other, more expensive, headphones in the past. Plenty of us, again, have also mentioned the treble issue etc.

So far the ZS5 and ES3 are the best bang-for-buck earphones I have tried.


----------



## gwompki (Sep 19, 2017)

My ES3 was delivered today.  Cant wait to try it out.


----------



## Fox2twenty

gwompki said:


> My ES3 was delivered today.  Cant wait to try it out.


Awesome! I like them with foam.


----------



## peskypesky

Aevum said:


> Im just wondering why the ZS5 is so divisive.



Which piece of gear isn't divisive on this forum?


----------



## peskypesky

Adide said:


> Only for KZ upper management.


----------



## groucho69

peskypesky said:


> Which piece of gear isn't divisive on this forum?


----------



## Taters00 (Sep 20, 2017)

Got inspired by the sweet ATE mods on this thread, so I decided to try my own. Popped off the covers and drilled the holes for the grills, then I sanded the cover thinner, to allow for the grill to lie flush with the surface of the IEM when reassembled. However, this meant that the cover would no longer fit due to the protruding brass cable mounts... so I just cut out a slot for them. Sorry if the picture's a bit unclear. With the slimmer profile they seem to sit a lot more comfortably in my ears.


----------



## Fox2twenty

peskypesky said:


>


KZ upper management must have the BEST iems....


----------



## peskypesky

Fox2twenty said:


> KZ upper management must have the BEST iems....


Yes. They have Campfire Audio Andromedas.


----------



## Fox2twenty

peskypesky said:


> Yes. They have Campfire Audio Andromedas.


Lol! Omgosh, I'm dying


----------



## kokakolia (Sep 19, 2017)

Since I can't seem to find my Marshall Mode earbuds anymore and my KZ ED7 got destroyed a long time ago in the washing machine,

I just (pre)ordered the KZ ZS6 on Banggood. They're "only" $46...so why not!? That's kinda expensive for KZs if you think about it...They better blow my mind!

Is anyone else hyped for the ZS6!?

(I also bought a case so that I won't lose my earbuds this time)


----------



## Aevum

they seem to have released their own foam tips, im curious
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605421.html


----------



## kokakolia

So tried to do some research on the ZS6, and I haven't found much at all. 

The ZS5 and ZS6 look virtually identical however. The major difference is that the ZS6 has an aluminum housing (VS plastic on the ZS5). The ZS6 also has a huge vent. 

I can't help to wonder if the ZS6 is worth the extra $$ over the ZS5? We'll see...


----------



## HiFiChris

vector84 said:


> In fairness, very few people have the v2 yet and there have been a few very happy campers too.
> 
> I am starting to wonder if some of the widely varied opinions on the ZS5(v1) might be a wider swath of QC issues though...
> 
> ...



I'd rather address this to the u-shaped tuning with hollow-ish, distant mids. Certainly doesn't go well hand-in-hand with every genre and every taste although it is fun, quite well-made and mimics another popular in-ear's response to a relatively high degree.


----------



## kokakolia

HiFiChris said:


> I'd rather address this to the u-shaped tuning with hollow-ish, distant mids. Certainly doesn't go well hand-in-hand with every genre and every taste although it is fun, quite well-made and mimics another popular in-ear's response to a relatively high degree.



U-shaped tuning!? Yikes! that's not what I like! Especially not in IEMS, I should have read reviews first. Ah well, hopefully it won't be as catastrophic as the ED9. At this point, I don't know what to expect because I'm getting the ZS6 (not ZS5).


----------



## HiFiChris

kokakolia said:


> U-shaped tuning!? Yikes! that's not what I like! Especially not in IEMS, I should have read reviews first. Ah well, hopefully it won't be as catastrophic as the ED9. At this point, I don't know what to expect because I'm getting the ZS6 (not ZS5).



One could actually also call it w-shaped due to the upper midrange/lower treble boost - but yeah, accentuated bass (sub-bass especially) and upper treble.


----------



## vector84

HiFiChris said:


> I'd rather address this to the u-shaped tuning with hollow-ish, distant mids. Certainly doesn't go well hand-in-hand with every genre and every taste although it is fun, quite well-made and mimics another popular in-ear's response to a relatively high degree.


Yeah I'm not trying to downplay that part of it...

But I also wonder if there's just like... glue where it doesn't belong and such


----------



## Slater

Chief Stringer said:


> Can anyone give a comparison of the old gold tip ZS1 and the ZSE mostly in terms of bass but overall signature and quality too? I miss the stupid amounts of bass from the gold / non mesh ZS1



Here you go:

ZSE:

Less bass quantity and quality vs the ZS1 v1
Really big soundstage
Has good clarity, but ZS1 v1 is better
Microphonic, but can be swapped left to right and worn behind ear
Has a good "balance" of ratio of bass to mids & treble, where the bass is clearly the star on the ZS1
Can sound a little veiled on some tracks
Can sound a bit grainy at times
An amp improves the sound quite a bit

ZS1 v1:

Boatloads of clean and deep bass (as you know) 
Clarity is better vs ZSE
Slightly better resolution than ZSE
Very good instrument separation - sounds less crowded than ZSE
Has superior treble compared to the ZSE
Microphonic, but already worn behind ear so it is what it is
Amp doesn't really improve the sound (just the volume) - sounds pretty consistent with or without
A little darker sounding than ZSE
Mids are a little more recessed vs ZSE
Has really nice memory wire (one of the best on any KZ I own)
Between the 2, I prefer the ZS1 v1.

Since the ZS1 v1 is so hard to find, you might consider either the ZS1 Mini or ZS3 with 'Slater mod' as options. They are a little closer to the ZS1 v1 (with regards to the bass you're looking for), although they're obviously not exactly the same sounding. You may try poking around on the for sale board, or even asking some Aliexpress sellers if they have any old stock left. That's how I got my backup pair of ZS1 v1,

Also, don't bother with the ZS1 v2 or the ZS2. I have both and neither sound nearly as good as the ZS1 v1.

If you are willing to try a non-KZ, I know the Boarseman KR49 is recommended here all of the time (and it's ridiculously cheap). You can read more about it here: http://www.aproear.co.uk/boarseman-kr49/


----------



## Slater

Aevum said:


> Im just wondering why the ZS5 is so divisive,
> 
> 50% of people say its the best thing since sliced bread, the other 50% say its the worst thing to happen to audio since Beats.
> 
> Personaly, im liking them more then my Trinity Phantom Masters., (signature wise, the PM´s have slightly more detail)



More like 80%/20% from what I've seen (on here, Reddit, YouTube, etc).


----------



## Slater (Sep 20, 2017)

Taters00 said:


> Got inspired by the sweet ATE mods on this thread, so I decided to try my own. Popped off the covers and drilled the holes for the grills, then I sanded the cover thinner, to allow for the grill to lie flush with the surface of the IEM when reassembled. However, this meant that the cover would no longer fit due to the protruding brass cable mounts... so I just cut out a slot for them. Sorry if the picture's a bit unclear. With the slimmer profile they seem to sit a lot more comfortably in my ears.



Wow, nice job! Looks great

It didn't even dawn on me to thin down the cover. Because the gold ring on you and Coil's version looks really nice vs my stainless mesh. I might have to do this method with my spare pair of ATE ;0)

So the more important question is - how do they SOUND now?


----------



## Slater

Aevum said:


> they seem to have released their own foam tips, im curious
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605421.html



They use those on the ATE.

I refer to them as "gel foams". They aren't really gels, and not really foams. It's like a slippery foam, like a regular foam tip was soaked in gel. Kind of hard to explain.

I personally don't use them (kind of meh). They don't fit on a lot of nozzles because they don't have a rubber sleeve - it's 100% foam. So they don't always stay securely on the nozzles depending on the IEM.


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> U-shaped tuning!? Yikes! that's not what I like! Especially not in IEMS, I should have read reviews first. Ah well, hopefully it won't be as catastrophic as the ED9. At this point, I don't know what to expect because I'm getting the ZS6 (not ZS5).



What don't you like about the ED9?


----------



## Grieflar

Just picked up my KZ Ate from the post office and man - they sound *AWFUL*! No bass or mids whatsoever, only some very sharp highs. 

Tried them on my iPhone 6s where my Rock Zircon and Einsear T2 perform wonderfully!

Is there some easy newbie-mistakes I might be making with these? The fit snugly and everything


----------



## Apputty

Aevum said:


> Im just wondering why the ZS5 is so divisive,
> 
> 50% of people say its the best thing since sliced bread, the other 50% say its the worst thing to happen to audio since Beats.
> 
> Personaly, im liking them more then my Trinity Phantom Masters., (signature wise, the PM´s have slightly more detail)


I too feel that it's better than phantom masters. Could be because of the sound signature or because phantom masters are so heavy that I am not getting it to stay in my ears.
Still zs5 is a fun sound signature I feel.


----------



## -sandro-

Still didn't what signature it has though  some say balanced, some neutral, some vshapes, some U-shaped, some treble-centered...
Oh and don't forget some dull and some fun!


----------



## HungryPanda

Grieflar said:


> Just picked up my KZ Ate from the post office and man - they sound *AWFUL*! No bass or mids whatsoever, only some very sharp highs.
> 
> Tried them on my iPhone 6s where my Rock Zircon and Einsear T2 perform wonderfully!
> 
> Is there some easy newbie-mistakes I might be making with these? The fit snugly and everything



That does sound right at all, can you try them on any other source. Mine have great bass mids and highs


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> I don't know what to expect because I'm getting the ZS6 (not ZS5).





tamsaiming2003 said:


> KZ ZS6 10 hrs run-in impression (user from HK)
> 1. Cable fits well with the earphone, unlike KZ ZS5
> 2. Wider soundstage
> 3. 15 ohms, easier to drive
> ...


----------



## Toretoshark

I have received my kzs5 today I understand that cable should have polarity , which is the correct position to fit the cable??


----------



## HungryPanda

should have the L/R letters facing outward


----------



## Toretoshark

HungryPanda said:


> should have the L/R letters facing outward


Thank you!


----------



## cirodts

zs6 vs zs5 sound quality?


----------



## Superluc

Toretoshark said:


> I have received my kzs5 today I understand that cable should have polarity , which is the correct position to fit the cable??


You could also see the right position from the connector itself







As you can see, one side is rounded.


----------



## maxxevv

Toretoshark said:


> I have received my kzs5 today I understand that cable should have polarity , which is the correct position to fit the cable??



This was a PSA from Slater:   https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067

Specifically on the ZS5 polarity issues.


----------



## TimeSnow

So trying the ZS3s for a bit today, checking out the new Midlake - Trials... 10th anniversary on Tidal. They sound really really nice. A bit of a fine line with the treble, but it's more bite than anything... Not sweet, but not wince inducing.

Next up, Camille - Sous le Sable. The sub bass is much more present than with the DZAT but it's still less intense than the ZST. I prefer this. In fact this is definitely a more competente all rounder than the ZST I think. I need to do a direct comparison.

Anyway, these are nice. Enjoying them.


----------



## sman789 (Sep 20, 2017)

Aevum said:


> they seem to have released their own foam tips, im curious
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605421.html


I have a bunch of tips ordered from AliEx and these look similar. Very nice to use since you don't have to roll the tip. But they don't have the inner plastic tube so they slide off with ease. They tend to stay in my canal when I take the IEMs out.


----------



## Gianluigib

maxxevv said:


> If you have a multimeter, would suggest checking if there is a continuity in the circuit between the 2 pins when you unplug the cable.  Then check the continuity of the cable you're using for continuity.
> 
> If its the latter, and the continuity for the earphone is fine, then its probably just a simple cable damage issue, you can get a replacement for them quite easily.
> 
> If its the earphone not responding to continuity check, then its really if there is a warranty claim left for them though.


thanks , i think is the insert of the pins, because i tried the stock cable and the silver cable but however the left side doesn't work .


----------



## kokakolia

Slater said:


> What don't you like about the ED9?



I explained it hundreds of pages ago in this thread, but it's just easier to give you the short story:

- I only used the short filters because the long ones stick out of my ear uncomfortably
- I find that the treble is very boosted and sibilant. It's especially bad with Mac Demarco's guitars
- The bass is fun, but also very boomy. It's fatiguing on deep house music
- The mids are weird. Vocals sound thin. Music sounds thin
- Soundstage is really good, but that's due to the boosted treble

The general impression is of an overly bright earphone that sounds thin and has boomy bass. It is the most fatiguing listening experience ever.


----------



## Slater

Grieflar said:


> Just picked up my KZ Ate from the post office and man - they sound *AWFUL*! No bass or mids whatsoever, only some very sharp highs.
> 
> Tried them on my iPhone 6s where my Rock Zircon and Einsear T2 perform wonderfully!
> 
> Is there some easy newbie-mistakes I might be making with these? The fit snugly and everything



I had a pair like that and it was full of rust (see pics). Must have been a leak at the factory or something.

ATE should NOT sound like that.


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> I explained it hundreds of pages ago in this thread, but it's just easier to give you the short story:
> 
> - I only used the short filters because the long ones stick out of my ear uncomfortably
> - I find that the treble is very boosted and sibilant. It's especially bad with Mac Demarco's guitars
> ...



I see. It is definitely bright with the dull brass filter. I don't like the sound at all with the brass filter. The gold filter sounds better, but I modded mine and am very happy with it.

You're right about them being really long too. The heaviness of the body doesn't help the stay in the ears either.


----------



## Slater

Toretoshark said:


> I have received my kzs5 today I understand that cable should have polarity , which is the correct position to fit the cable??



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


----------



## ReBreaker (Sep 20, 2017)

Hi fellow Head-fiers,

This is my very first post here, but I am lurking in the KZ thread for more than a year hence I have collected some of the chi-fi iems like ATE, ZN1 mini, ED9, ED3c Acme, EDR1 & 2 and reviews of the ZS5 convinced me to get them from GB. It has been a while since I have ordered them, so I got v.1 with 1BA in the nozzle.

After +100 hours of the listening to the ZS5 (just a little burn-in, but I am not a true believer if u know what I mean) I have started to notify that it produces some kind of bloated bass without force of bass drum and also recessed mids with unnatural (maybe holographic is the right word) vocals. So a started to think that I have to give them away. The decision was made after one night - I am going to open it (grills, backs everything…). The one BA in the nozzle was closer to the grill on the left side than on the another side. No big deal since it wasn’t in contact with the grill. Anyway… I opened up backs and removed the inside tape (which preventing a socket contact with a smaller DD) mainly because it prevents driver from proper “breathe” in my case. Then I desoldered wires from the socket and soldered it back with use of heat shrink tubing. Inspirited by the ZS6 back vents I drilled backs from the ZS5 and used 3M car foil from the drawer on the flat area of the backs. Then glued tuning foam from VE Monks+ to inside of the backs and voilà ZS5 v1 modded.

Hearing test & some thoughts…

Mids are no longer recessed with more natural female vocals and also bass really kicks in with a precise of a hammer. The bass is definitely not overwhelming and bloated as before. The DDs needed to breathe properly, but unfortunately the shell was almost sealed off in the original design. Long story short the modded ZS5 v.1 produces nice open sound with better mids and more precise bass with higher dynamics as it supposed to.

Btw. In my modest opinion the mod itself can almost vanish the potential sound differences between ZS5 and ZS6. Metal shell could change sound purity but who knows… Time and reviews will tell… Cheers 




























Edit: links


----------



## TimeSnow

ReBreaker said:


> Hi fellow Head-fiers,
> 
> This is my very first post here, but I am lurking in the KZ thread for more than a year hence I have collected some of the chi-fi iems like ATE, ZN1 mini, ED9, ED3c Acme, EDR1 & 2 and reviews of the ZS5 convinced me to get them from GB. It has been a while since I have ordered them, so I got v.1 with 1BA in the nozzle.
> 
> ...



The images don't load for me...? 

Sounds ingenious though!


----------



## CoiL

maxxevv said:


> They are source sensitive.  Generally, it seems that if you have a clean source with plenty of driving power, they sound better.
> 
> Some people are listening to them with less than stellar sources and coupled with their sometime inconsistent quality control, it makes for some pretty varied responses to them it seems.



Totally agree! Lot of times ppl reviewing items forgot to mention their sources etc.



Grieflar said:


> Just picked up my KZ Ate from the post office and man - they sound *AWFUL*! No bass or mids whatsoever, only some very sharp highs.
> 
> Tried them on my iPhone 6s where my Rock Zircon and Einsear T2 perform wonderfully!
> 
> Is there some easy newbie-mistakes I might be making with these? The fit snugly and everything



Definitely faulty unit! ATE should have great mids and bass.


----------



## ReBreaker (Sep 20, 2017)

TimeSnow said:


> The images don't load for me...?
> 
> Sounds ingenious though!



Well, on PC it looks ok, but on android it shows somethin with premium (never used photobucket before so...) Anyway I edited the post and added a link to my library on photobucket


----------



## TimeSnow

ReBreaker said:


> Well, on PC it looks ok, but on android it shows somethin with premium (never used photobucket before so...) Anyway I edited the post and added a link to my library on photobucket


Sorry to say but it still doesn't work...

You should try Imgur! 

https://imgur.com/

Free, utterly simple, and fast.


----------



## Fox2twenty

ReBreaker said:


> Hi fellow Head-fiers,
> 
> This is my very first post here, but I am lurking in the KZ thread for more than a year hence I have collected some of the chi-fi iems like ATE, ZN1 mini, ED9, ED3c Acme, EDR1 & 2 and reviews of the ZS5 convinced me to get them from GB. It has been a while since I have ordered them, so I got v.1 with 1BA in the nozzle.
> 
> ...


This sounds great. Wish I could see the photos.


----------



## eaglesgift

ReBreaker said:


> Well, on PC it looks ok, but on android it shows somethin with premium (never used photobucket before so...) Anyway I edited the post and added a link to my library on photobucket


Photobucket doesn't offer embedded links for free any more. You have to pay for an upgrade to use it like that now.


----------



## nexvid (Sep 20, 2017)

I have pair of kz zs6, Im a bit late to the KZ party. After buying a pair of zs5 that had a problem with a rattling driver in the left piece I asked to have them changed for the zs6. I'm liking them so far, I can say that they are pretty well balanced only if the fitting is tight, if its a bit loose the mid lows just go away and they become the famous "highs cannon" people talk about. Any questions about them? The problem I had with the sz5 was very subtle specially in a song from Queens of the stone age, the fuzz solo in burn the witch just made the left piece rattle like crazy. The sz6 are completely fine there. BTW I got a preoder special with a "golden" cable the have angled connectors in the IEMs, they have longer legs and sit flush to the pieces, they don't "go in." The cable I think made an audible difference and compared to the silver cable feels a bit more "premium." Still i would have prefered metal connectors and metal plugs. but for 300rm (about 45usd) Ill say I'm pretty satisfied.


----------



## Sylmar

Got the ES3. Soundwise these seem fine but the shape creates a hotspot in my ear as soon as I use them. Seems I need to be more aware of sizes and shapes of IEMs before I buy them.


----------



## Toretoshark

Thanks again, it's easy to make it better to avoid mistakes....


----------



## Fox2twenty

Sylmar said:


> Got the ES3. Soundwise these seem fine but the shape creates a hotspot in my ear as soon as I use them. Seems I need to be more aware of sizes and shapes of IEMs before I buy them.


Interesting, I get hot spots with ZS5.. I can lay on my side work ES3.


----------



## ReBreaker

TimeSnow said:


> Sorry to say but it still doesn't work...
> 
> You should try Imgur!
> 
> ...



It's working now  Thanks man!



Fox2twenty said:


> This sounds great. Wish I could see the photos.



I uploaded the pics to imgur and edited the post, so you should can see it (at least I hope so  )


----------



## Fox2twenty

ReBreaker said:


> Hi fellow Head-fiers,
> 
> This is my very first post here, but I am lurking in the KZ thread for more than a year hence I have collected some of the chi-fi iems like ATE, ZN1 mini, ED9, ED3c Acme, EDR1 & 2 and reviews of the ZS5 convinced me to get them from GB. It has been a while since I have ordered them, so I got v.1 with 1BA in the nozzle.
> 
> ...


Yay looks amazing.. I wanna try!


----------



## TimeSnow

ReBreaker said:


> It's working now  Thanks man!


Glad to help!

And that's a really nice job! Impressive!


----------



## Fox2twenty

TimeSnow said:


> Glad to help!
> 
> And that's a really nice job! Impressive!


It's like he doesn't even need Zs6.


----------



## teesui

ReBreaker said:


> Hi fellow Head-fiers,
> 
> This is my very first post here, but I am lurking in the KZ thread for more than a year hence I have collected some of the chi-fi iems like ATE, ZN1 mini, ED9, ED3c Acme, EDR1 & 2 and reviews of the ZS5 convinced me to get them from GB. It has been a while since I have ordered them, so I got v.1 with 1BA in the nozzle.
> 
> ...



Wow! Great work!


----------



## TimeSnow

Fox2twenty said:


> It's like he doesn't even need Zs6.



Maybe he can mod the 6 to block the holes?


----------



## Slater

TimeSnow said:


> Maybe he can mod the 6 to block the holes?



And also move 1 of the BAs from the nozzle into the body next to the DD drivers haha


----------



## ReBreaker

Fox2twenty said:


> Yay looks amazing.. I wanna try!





TimeSnow said:


> Glad to help!
> 
> And that's a really nice job! Impressive!





teesui said:


> Wow! Great work!



Thanks guys! I appreciate that


----------



## Fox2twenty

ReBreaker said:


> Thanks guys! I appreciate that


Is the red stuff what you are calling 3M foil?


----------



## Sylmar

Fox2twenty said:


> Interesting, I get hot spots with ZS5.. I can lay on my side work ES3.



Goes to show that not only tastes in sound differ, so do ear shapes. What a complicated hobby we have.


----------



## Holypal

ReBreaker said:


> Hi fellow Head-fiers,
> 
> This is my very first post here, but I am lurking in the KZ thread for more than a year hence I have collected some of the chi-fi iems like ATE, ZN1 mini, ED9, ED3c Acme, EDR1 & 2 and reviews of the ZS5 convinced me to get them from GB. It has been a while since I have ordered them, so I got v.1 with 1BA in the nozzle.
> 
> ...




Very impressed! You have good skills.

When my ZS6 arrive and if I'm not happy with it, I'll mod ZS5 as you did.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Holypal said:


> Very impressed! You have good skills.
> 
> When my ZS6 arrive and if I'm not happy with it, I'll mod ZS5 as you did.


Yay! In for comparo.


----------



## CYoung234

ReBreaker said:


> Hi fellow Head-fiers,
> 
> This is my very first post here, but I am lurking in the KZ thread for more than a year hence I have collected some of the chi-fi iems like ATE, ZN1 mini, ED9, ED3c Acme, EDR1 & 2 and reviews of the ZS5 convinced me to get them from GB. It has been a while since I have ordered them, so I got v.1 with 1BA in the nozzle.
> 
> ...



Nice work. One question: Were all of the drivers hooked up and working? There has been a lot of controversy over this, and it looks like you disassembled things clean enough to be able to see it....


----------



## Toretoshark

I've testet a few my zs5, sound is good but there are really uncomfortable, any tip of three fits or hold it, it's too big and heavy it moves affecting noise quality so if tips does not fit bass dissapears...I hope I can find a solution if not it will never replace my Xiaomi Hybrid....


----------



## Superluc

nexvid said:


> I have pair of kz zs6, Im a bit late to the KZ party. After buying a pair of zs5 that had a problem with a rattling driver in the left piece I asked to have them changed for the zs6. I'm liking them so far, I can say that they are pretty well balanced only if the fitting is tight, if its a bit loose the mid lows just go away and they become the famous "highs cannon" people talk about. Any questions about them?



What about comfort ? They are heavy ? From some pictures the shell seem a bit more thin than the ZS5's one, but may be the perspective.

Any harshness in the sound ? Aside high presence, do you feel some sibilance ?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> What about comfort ? They are heavy ? From some pictures the shell seem a bit more thin than the ZS5's one, but may be the perspective.
> 
> Any harshness in the sound ? Aside high presence, do you feel some sibilance ?



All good questions


----------



## westsenkovec

What are the opinions on ZSE?
I bought them on sale because I didn't think they would stay cheap lol.
I don't like how they sound and I'm wondering if that's price related.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

nah all kzs drops in price pretty quick and stay there.


----------



## BrunoC

Toretoshark said:


> I've testet a few my zs5, sound is good but there are really uncomfortable, any tip of three fits or hold it, it's too big and heavy it moves affecting noise quality so if tips does not fit bass dissapears...I hope I can find a solution if not it will never replace my Xiaomi Hybrid....



Just do this and be happy.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeTechNoob said:


> nah all kzs drops in price pretty quick and stay there.


Lol, like, bro, their stock doesn't go up.


----------



## Fox2twenty

BrunoC said:


> Just do this and be happy.


Awesome tips and cables.


----------



## Superluc

westsenkovec said:


> What are the opinions on ZSE?
> I bought them on sale because I didn't think they would stay cheap lol.
> I don't like how they sound and I'm wondering if that's price related.


What you don't like and normally search ?

I doubt the price is a problem, drops are normal, especially on Gearbest. I found them a lot source and EQ sensitive, on the warm side, without sibilance, more congested than more expensive KZ models ( if we can say that ) and with a very microphonic cable. For the price they have a good potential, try messing with the EQ.


----------



## Slater

westsenkovec said:


> What are the opinions on ZSE?
> I bought them on sale because I didn't think they would stay cheap lol.
> I don't like how they sound and I'm wondering if that's price related.



You mean like the cheaper/more expensive they are, the better/worse they sound or something?

I'm not sure I follow.


----------



## Slater

BrunoC said:


> Just do this and be happy.



You need to seat the plug on the R side some more there chief.

L side looks good.


----------



## BrunoC

Slater said:


> You need to seat the plug on the R side some more there chief.
> 
> L side looks good.



Well spotted. The right side slide a bit more in. A small force was needed though. It was solid like that, for months.

Someone mentioned the ZSE. Well, I have it and I was just having a listening session, swapping between it and the ZS5... Man, that's night and day. The ZS5's clarity and soundstage completely smashes the ZSE. Differents leagues for sure.


----------



## vector84

The ZSE shares the same red nylon filter as the ZS3.

If you want a little less bass / more detail out of them, you could try taking it off - personally I found the 5kHz peak it exposes when removed to be too much, and eventually replaced it with a steel mesh and a layer of thinner nylon, but seems worth mentioning.  YMMV


----------



## Taters00

Slater said:


> Wow, nice job! Looks great
> 
> It didn't even dawn on me to thin down the cover. Because the gold ring on you and Coil's version looks really nice vs my stainless mesh. I might have to do this method with my spare pair of ATE ;0)
> 
> So the more important question is - how do they SOUND now?



Well to be honest I had been using my ZS3's  most of the time before I did the mod, so I don't really remember how the ATE's sounded beforehand. However, what I can tell you is that I've been using them a lot more recently. (Though it might just be because they look a lot cooler now with the brass rings) Definitely looking forward to pics if you decide to mod your spare ATE's.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Toretoshark said:


> I've testet a few my zs5, sound is good but there are really uncomfortable, any tip of three fits or hold it, it's too big and heavy it moves affecting noise quality so if tips does not fit bass dissapears...I hope I can find a solution if not it will never replace my Xiaomi Hybrid....



I use my KZ ZS5 with 5mm foam tips and a balanced cable, they are pretty comfortable for me. Often fall asleep with them in my ears


----------



## Fox2twenty

Lord Rexter said:


> I use my KZ ZS5 with 5mm foam tips and a balanced cable, they are pretty comfortable for me. Often fall asleep with them in my ears


Awesome setup, what kinda player is that?


----------



## Lord Rexter

Fox2twenty said:


> Awesome setup, what kinda player is that?



Thank you, it's a FiiO X5 2nd Gen DAP.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Lord Rexter said:


> Thank you, it's a FiiO X5 2nd Gen DAP.


Very cool.


----------



## swg0101

Does anyone know if there exists an upgraded cable for the ZS5 that has a microphone built in? I believe all the upgraded cables so far are for the non-mic version... Thoughts?


----------



## ricemanhk

swg0101 said:


> Does anyone know if there exists an upgraded cable for the ZS5 that has a microphone built in? I believe all the upgraded cables so far are for the non-mic version... Thoughts?



Nope, nothing available yet.  Only stock cable has mic for now, unfortunately.  Sound is fine but I don't like the grippy rubber and vastly prefer the silver/gold upgrade cables for comfort and microphonics, but then I need the mic...


----------



## swg0101

ricemanhk said:


> Nope, nothing available yet.  Only stock cable has mic for now, unfortunately.  Sound is fine but I don't like the grippy rubber and vastly prefer the silver/gold upgrade cables for comfort and microphonics, but then I need the mic...


Ah, bummer... I can't even find a place to buy the stock cable if the original is torn. I guess the best option would be to buy a pair of ZS3 and just use that cable. The original cable that I had with my ZS5 had a problem with the microphone falling apart so I am actually using the cable from the ZS3 right now. It doesn't seem to have a tight fit though, and the headphones often come detached when I am trying to untangle the cable or lightly tug on the units themselves... Hopefully, the ZS6 won't have that problem...


----------



## vector84

Should be able to find ZS3 mic'd cables on ali - not upgrade ones though.

You could probably find a compatible 0.78mm pin cable with a mic made for various other brands / customs, but once you go 0.78mm, you can't go back


----------



## swg0101

Do you have any good suggestions? I assume that the 0.78mm would be more of a snug fit on the KZs (and hopefully won't damage the connector?) But it would nice to have a more snug fit since my drivers have been falling out constantly... It's quite annoying...


----------



## vector84 (Sep 21, 2017)

0.78mm pins will damage the connector in the sense that it will stretch it out too far to use the stock 0.75mm pin cables anymore without gluing them in place or some such.  But damage in the sense of cause some sort of failure other than stock cables not fitting anymore? Doubt it, quite a few people around here have been doing it with no trouble.

Since you mentioned that you were using a ZS3 cable... I feel like I should point out that if it was a really early ZS3, and the cable fits tighter than the stock ZS5 cable, you might already be using a 0.78mm cable, as the initial run of ZS3s came with them.

As for suggestions on mic'd cables... not really, searching aliexpress for things like "iem cable mic", "westone cable mic", etc... should turn up some results - though they can be a bit pricey compared to KZs   Someone mentioned they were using an IE80 cable for the purpose a ways back iirc, but to me that looks like it might need some cutting down to fit properly.   Stuff like standard CIEMs, W4R, IE10 type housings should be easier to work without modification, I believe?


----------



## jaydm99 (Sep 21, 2017)

Lord Rexter said:


> Yes it works right out of the box on ZS5. Hope this helps.


How about with the ZS3? Does it fall off easily?


----------



## jaydm99 (Sep 21, 2017)

[DEL]


----------



## Lord Rexter

Jay Magaling said:


> How about with the ZS3? Does it fall off easily?


No won't fall off easily on ZS3.


----------



## ReBreaker (Sep 21, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> Is the red stuff what you are calling 3M foil?



They have a red logo if you mean that. The 3M does a lot of "sticky" things and one of them is a car foil. You should get it in some hobby store. I bought it in a lil car accessories shop.



Holypal said:


> Very impressed! You have good skills.
> 
> When my ZS6 arrive and if I'm not happy with it, I'll mod ZS5 as you did.


Thanks man  The worst thing was working with a razor and cut the foil to match a various edges of the ZS5. I had to repeated it at least three times on the both shells grr... I'm glad that I inspirated you 



CYoung234 said:


> Nice work. One question: Were all of the drivers hooked up and working? There has been a lot of controversy over this, and it looks like you disassembled things clean enough to be able to see it....



Thanks very much! To your question... Well I have done some experiment due to the previous controversy and also to disconfirm that even BA in the nozzle doesn't work. I have put a thick foam into the nozzle so that only the BA peek a little bit and have done some hearing test to listen to the BA only. The BA was working well on the both sides. Also I checked soldering points on DDs and BA in the body, but I didn't do any heavy desoldering and listen to every driver separately at time. What I can confirm is that the BA in the nozzle is ok, but I can only assume that the BA in the body is fine also. The same applies to the rest of the DDs.


----------



## Tmanning47

Still waiting semi-patiently for the ES3s...


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> Still waiting semi-patiently for the ES3s...


I was listening to ES3 last night. I think they're worth it 
They sound really great with blues


----------



## Selenium

Anyone have their ZS6 ship yet?


----------



## HungryPanda

nope


----------



## SummerRainbowz

(New KZ user here  )
My pair is currently at China Post I believe, bought the green variant + bluetooth and "silver" cables from Taobao using an agent. I think I might be getting the copper cable though, so that's pretty cool.


----------



## groucho69

SummerRainbowz said:


> (New KZ user here  )
> My pair is currently at China Post I believe, bought the green variant + bluetooth and "silver" cables from Taobao using an agent. I think I might be getting the copper cable though, so that's pretty cool.



Believing those shipping updates can lead to disappointment.


----------



## Podster

Well I have an un-trackable tracking number for my ZS6

In the mean time my ZS5's with upgrade cables are lying dormant while I've really been liking the new and improved ZST SP cable





Waiting to see what they come out with for the ZS6


----------



## oyobass

BrunoC said:


> Just do this and be happy.



I filled the pointy bits a bit smoother in the back (inner) side of mine, A bit less fatiguing/ irritating, I still prefer the fit, looks and and ergonomics of my ZST colorful set, but the ZS5s sound more hi-fi and less fun, useful for many situations.  
Cheap 'New Bee' brand foamies make a big difference on both of them. I use these standing next to a LOUD drummer so I need all the isolation I can get...


----------



## oyobass

Podster said:


> Well I have an un-trackable tracking number for my ZS6
> 
> In the mean time my ZS5's with upgrade cables are lying dormant while I've really been liking the new and improved ZST SP cable
> 
> ...


Nice! 

How are you liking the new cable? They look a lot more high-end than the silver replacement cable.


----------



## Podster

It is and for $7.53 it's is way better


----------



## westsenkovec (Sep 21, 2017)

Superluc said:


> What you don't like and normally search ?
> 
> I doubt the price is a problem, drops are normal, especially on Gearbest. I found them a lot source and EQ sensitive, on the warm side, without sibilance, more congested than more expensive KZ models ( if we can say that ) and with a very microphonic cable. For the price they have a good potential, try messing with the EQ.





Slater said:


> You mean like the cheaper/more expensive they are, the better/worse they sound or something?
> 
> I'm not sure I follow.



No, I bought them on pre sale/flash sale when they were initially released. The price was too good to pass, especially considering it was a dual driver and that the prices go up once the earphones are released.

I have the first gen ATEs and Zircons.
The ATE was a huge surprise considering that it was my first Chinese IEM. For that price you could only get junk at the local store. They  had a strong bass but then I read that they come from the factory with glue on the breathing holes and that they sound much better if you remove it. After struggling to remove the soft glue from the holes, the sound changed so much that I thought I damaged the driver. Almost zero bass and much more "airy" with a bigger sound stage.

The Zircons are my go to IEM. Great price and build quality, good sound insolation but they can be too bassy at times.

Now the ZSE..
I was watching a movie with them and I just couldn't take it. During a driving scene the engine noise and bass were close while the voices were recessed and distant to the point that I couldn't make out what they were saying.
Same thing with music. They sound dark. The bass is strong, not too precise, vocals way behind, probably outside in the yard behind the shed.
I did burn them in and I used only them for a couple of days. They are not terrible, you can get used to them and they don't sound too bad, but when I switch to the other two it's night and day difference. The ZSE sound cheap compared to them. That's why I asked if that's price related.

One more thing, I've read that they are airy because they have an open back, but mine don't feel like that and they don't leak sound. Could it be that they also glued shut? lol


----------



## -sandro-

westsenkovec said:


> No, I bought them on pre sale/flash sale when they were initially released. The price was too good to pass, especially considering it was a dual driver and that the prices go up once the earphones are released.
> 
> I have the first gen ATEs and Zircons.
> The ATE was a huge surprise considering that it was my first Chinese IEM. For that price you could only get junk at the local store. They  had a strong bass but then I read that they come from the factory with glue on the breathing holes and that they sound much better if you remove it. After struggling to remove the soft glue from the holes, the sound changed so much that I thought I damaged the driver. Almost zero bass and much more "airy" with a bigger sound stage.
> ...



Your description could resemble the ATR a bit.


----------



## Fox2twenty

-sandro- said:


> Your description could resemble the ATR a bit.


That's what I thought. Atr


----------



## -sandro-

Can someone appreciate the ATR? I just can't, they lack details in the mids they sound weird. Maybe they're just low quality...


----------



## Saoshyant

You've been on Head-Fi for 6 years.  You should remember what $5 could get you back then, I know I do.  The ATR would murder any other $5 offering from back then.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Saoshyant said:


> You've been on Head-Fi for 6 years.  You should remember what $5 could get you back then, I know I do.  The ATR would murder any other $5 offering from back then.


Good point... I don't have an ATR, but my ES3 and ZS5 are far superior to the $60 dual dynamic I got from brainwavZ 5 years ago.....


----------



## Fox2twenty

BTW, Gearbest sale is going on for ZST Colorful...


----------



## Superluc

westsenkovec said:


> The Zircons are my go to IEM. Great price and build quality, good sound insolation but they can be too bassy at times.
> 
> Now the ZSE..
> I was watching a movie with them and I just couldn't take it. During a driving scene the engine noise and bass were close while the voices were recessed and distant to the point that I couldn't make out what they were saying.
> ...


Don't leak sound ?!? Very strange, my pair leak, and i have buy them from the official KZ store on Aliexpress.

I also have a pair of Zircons. With my source and it's own tips ( normal silicon - starline KZ on ZSE ), they are more dark than my ZSE, the bass overblown too much and sometimes they are sibilant. 
ZSE are overall better to me, with a better soundstage, and more details. They lack something on vocals, but can also gain something good from EQ, where Zircons became harsher. 

Maybe your pair have some malfunctions.


----------



## groucho69

I have a favor to ask. Can you guys try these EQ setting on the ZS5 and tell if they sound good to you? I used foobar through my ZuperDAC. Anything not mentioned is flat zero.
220= -2
311 = -1
440 = - .5
622 = -2
880 = -1
1.2 = -1
1.8 = -2
2.5 = -.5
3.5 = -1
5 = -1.5
7 = -2.5
10 = -2.5
14 = -2.5
20 = -2.5

Ya ya I know, there goes the brightness....TIA.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Which equalizer is this?  I use "Graphic Equalizer" and there's not enough options.


----------



## peskypesky

kokakolia said:


> I explained it hundreds of pages ago in this thread, but it's just easier to give you the short story:
> 
> - I only used the short filters because the long ones stick out of my ear uncomfortably
> - I find that the treble is very boosted and sibilant. It's especially bad with Mac Demarco's guitars
> ...


mine sound great


----------



## westsenkovec

Superluc said:


> Don't leak sound ?!? Very strange, my pair leak, and i have buy them from the official KZ store on Aliexpress.
> 
> I also have a pair of Zircons. With my source and it's own tips ( normal silicon - starline KZ on ZSE ), they are more dark than my ZSE, the bass overblown too much and sometimes they are sibilant.
> ZSE are overall better to me, with a better soundstage, and more details. They lack something on vocals, but can also gain something good from EQ, where Zircons became harsher.
> ...



Yes. I have to turn the volume to max and bring them close to my ear in order to hear leaking sound.
I got the first batch from gearbest. I don't want to spend time trying to open them in order to see what's going on inside.


----------



## Viber (Sep 22, 2017)

A 15$ deal for the ZS5 on GB:



> 2017/9/22 16:00 Beijing UTC +8 Time Zone
> 
> KZ ZS5 Detachable HiFi Earphones
> 
> ...



I checked it now and it works.


----------



## HungryPanda

Code didn't  work for me yesterday  and now I'm  away from home for a few days so cannot buy them now


----------



## JayceOoi

Yup, just tested discount code - 11nov024 It is working. KZ ZS5 @ $14.99 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## Viber

HungryPanda said:


> Code didn't  work for me yesterday  and now I'm  away from home for a few days so cannot buy them now




Maybe you didnt use it on the right sub-model\version with mic?  use the specific link.


----------



## maxxevv (Sep 22, 2017)

Only for the option in the link. 

Add: It only starts at the specific time which is stated in the link. Think many people didn't note that. 


Snagged a piece together with the BT model more than an hour ago.

Best buy anywhere!!


----------



## HiFiChris

Viber said:


> A 15$ deal for the ZS5 on GB:
> 
> 
> 
> I checked it now and it works.


That's a crazy low price.


----------



## Dan-Fi (Sep 22, 2017)

westsenkovec said:


> Yes. I have to turn the volume to max and bring them close to my ear in order to hear leaking sound.
> I got the first batch from gearbest. I don't want to spend time trying to open them in order to see what's going on inside.



I think therein ties with what you're hearing... your ZSE's might well be closed! Perhaps what you're hearing is a result of driver flex? I can confirm with @Superluc that my ZSE's are open and leak sound when I block the nozzles/tips with my fingers.


----------



## maxxevv

westsenkovec said:


> Now the ZSE..
> I was watching a movie with them and I just couldn't take it. During a driving scene the engine noise and bass were close while the voices were recessed and distant to the point that I couldn't make out what they were saying.
> Same thing with music. They sound dark. The bass is strong, not too precise, vocals way behind, probably outside in the yard behind the shed.
> I did burn them in and I used only them for a couple of days. They are not terrible, you can get used to them and they don't sound too bad, but when I switch to the other two it's night and day difference. The ZSE sound cheap compared to them. That's why I asked if that's price related.
> ...



The ZSE are source sensitive.  I have repeated this many times on this thread.   

Between my laptop jack and my LG G6, they sound quite a bit different.  Closer to what you describe on the laptop jack. Do check too that you have a good seal on the eartips as it may affect the overall sound signature too. 

On the G6, its effortlessly smooth when it comes to bass from pop music. Not bloated at all and it doesn't lose its treble details when the bassy stuff kicks in.  It sounds really nice with pop vocals IMO too on the G6.  It does however does sound congested once you get into scenarios where there's plenty of instruments or different sounds coming on together. Not the best choice when it comes to classical. 

Soundstage wise, it isn't that wide but its par for many IEMS up to about US$20/- in my experience.


----------



## groucho69

SomeTechNoob said:


> Which equalizer is this?  I use "Graphic Equalizer" and there's not enough options.



foobar


----------



## CoiL

-sandro- said:


> Can someone appreciate the ATR? I just can't, they lack details in the mids they sound weird. Maybe they're just low quality...


Whaaat? ATR lacking details and mids? No way, the ATR I have doesn` t sound like this. Maybe newer version on sale?


----------



## trumpethead

TimeSnow said:


> Glad to help!
> 
> And that's a really nice job! Impressive!


! jn; out


westsenkovec said:


> What are the opinions on ZSE?
> I bought them on sale because I didn't think they would stay cheap lol.
> I don't like how they sound and I'm wondering if that's price related.



You have to find that right tips that give a good seal for you and also amp them to get the best sound quality and quantity...I like them.


----------



## Ynot1 (Sep 22, 2017)

Everytime I think I'm out...


ATR, ZSE were boths praised beyond reason by those not to be named specifically, but have disappeared of late for some reason. Now we see the flip side.
It's possible there are duds out there. But I trusted people and I feel like I was let down, never mind what I think about the sound, I spent the money because I was told they were good. I have ATR and it's pretty good, and the ZSE, well I'm feeling nervous as I wait. For the record the ATR stays at home mostly because it is a cable up and I can't see myself messying with cables when I'm in public.


----------



## Mellowship

maxxevv said:


> The ZSE are source sensitive.  I have repeated this many times on this thread.
> 
> Between my laptop jack and my LG G6, they sound quite a bit different.  Closer to what you describe on the laptop jack. Do check too that you have a good seal on the eartips as it may affect the overall sound signature too.
> 
> ...



The ZSE are source-sensitive indeed. I am a lazy guy when it comes to try my IEMs with different sources, usually I stick with my main rig which is a FiiO X3 II and a Topping NX2. At the computer, I use some onears, either JVC Flats or Senn HD407...  but from time to time, when I go around with just enough pocket space to take my smartphone, I use my IEMs. Some days ago I took the ZSE with the Huawei Honor 8 and they didn't sound bad, but not quite the same. It's like the bass was a little too intrusive and the treble was slightly more sparkly. And that congestion in more complex passages was evident. But they were "listenable". Now, with the main rig (fiio+topping), they are very good. They get close to the ATE 1st gen, but with less "velvet" and with better defined highs. Or to a softer and bassier version of the ZST. Or somewhat similar to the DZAT DF10 with a little bit more of air... Got curious and tried them on with my Benjie S5, and the sound is somewhere in between the smartphone and the DAP+AMP combo... So they are very prone to the source you're using them with. 

As for the back grilles, they leak the hell out! These are truly opened-back IEMs. You can clearly listen to the music playing from the back of the ZSEs, even at low volumes. 

Regarding the different experiences people here have with KZ IEMs, I guess they must be due to 4 major causes:
1) the quality control of the product at manufacture stage... well, it is cheap and that's one of the main reasons we love them... so we cannot ask for much at this department. But some users' impressions about some KSs make me wonder if they got a damaged good... At first it was what I thought when I got my ED12, but unfortunately they are that bad... 
2) different equipment, from PSP to PC to smartphone to DAP to DAC to AMP to BT to whatever it is thay you've got with a 3.5mm input. 
3) interpersonal variations in
3.1.) sound taste. Well, it is not universal, you know...;
3.2.) ear canal fit;
3.3.) reflections and reverberation in ear canal;
4) past experiences with sound gear... oh well, my first pair of Radiopaq jazz got me drooling... When they broke (and it's a very frail earphone), I had their sound signature so strongly imprinted in my brain that I spent months looking for something close.... or I usually listen to music through my PrimaLuna tube amp and my ProAc monitor speakers, and if I where to use this system as a reference to compare to KZ IEMs, I'd be damned! Everything is relative... 

What I've been reading here about the ATE, the ZSE, the ZS5, three of my favourite KZ IEMs together with the IE80 and the ED9, makes me wonder if some of you are listening to the same things, but thinking about the list of causes for interpersonal impressions, I guess I got lucky with KZ and got products free of manufacturing defects, and my equipment suits them well, or my ears are fitted for the job or I can ponder the sonic references I have...


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Whaaat? ATR lacking details and mids? No way, the ATR I have doesn` t sound like this. Maybe newer version on sale?


People call ATR "neutral". I call them "dull". They absorb the tiniest bit of magic in music...  
I also bought ATR because of the early great impressions. I don't regret. It is always a risk doing so. We are all different.


----------



## djmakemynight

It's been mentioned many times but I guess this proves sound is subjective.

Personally, I like the sound signature of ATR. When i first heard it, I was impressed with the sound stage and bass response for.. 5 bucks? @_@

I actually prefer the ATR over my ATE S. But hey, that is just me.

Many people said that ED4 wasn't really good but I preferred the more intimate signature for deeper male vocals.

Just couple nights back, I did a lossy vs lossless audio test with ED12 on my new Note8, I got 5/6 right.

I do agree with the general advice here that ED12 does have a weird signature which can sound funny sometimes. I play spot the weird audio with them when I am bored.

Well, I figured my wife has bags for different occasions, a music listener like myself should have a collection of audio stuff for different types of music too.


----------



## Mellowship

djmakemynight said:


> It's been mentioned many times but I guess this proves sound is subjective.
> 
> Personally, I like the sound signature of ATR. When i first heard it, I was impressed with the sound stage and bass response for.. 5 bucks? @_@
> 
> ...


Talking about wives, women have evolved to have a slightly different sound perception then men, with a slightly better space perception when it comes to the higher human voice pitches. It must have been of use when we were evolving as a tribal species and a given woman had to differentiate the exact timbre and location of her child among all the other tribe children in order to come to rescue. Don't take this as a deterministic point of view, please!  

As for the ED12, it sounds weird indeed, and I guess your ability to differentiate lossy vs lossless might have to do with its somewhat bloated and echoing midrange - it might help revealing pontual differences in a frequency range our ears are very sensitive to, hence they should help telling the difference between the same two recordings with different levels of compression. But do you agree that the ED12 is a good IEM for music appreciation, or for some kind of music style in particular? I personally find them very unnatural - even disturbing - in the way they deliver. Voices, for instances, sound almost unhuman. Wood instruments like clarinets and oboes, lose their characteristic timbre.


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> Whaaat? ATR lacking details and mids? No way, the ATR I have doesn` t sound like this. Maybe newer version on sale?



Yea, they are pretty boring.
They hit the ball out of the park in terms of imaging though, it's amazing how good they are for movies and video games (unless there is music in the scene )


----------



## Fox2twenty

Just switched back to zs5 from ES3.

ZS5 really has amazing Soundstage for the price. The first thing I noticed is the stereo effects are wider and the Soundstage is taller.


----------



## djmakemynight (Sep 22, 2017)

Mellowship said:


> Talking about wives, women have evolved to have a slightly different sound perception then men, with a slightly better space perception when it comes to the higher human voice pitches. It must have been of use when we were evolving as a tribal species and a given woman had to differentiate the exact timbre and location of her child among all the other tribe children in order to come to rescue. Don't take this as a deterministic point of view, please!
> 
> As for the ED12, it sounds weird indeed, and I guess your ability to differentiate lossy vs lossless might have to do with its somewhat bloated and echoing midrange - it might help revealing pontual differences in a frequency range our ears are very sensitive to, hence they should help telling the difference between the same two recordings with different levels of compression. But do you agree that the ED12 is a good IEM for music appreciation, or for some kind of music style in particular? I personally find them very unnatural - even disturbing - in the way they deliver. Voices, for instances, sound almost unhuman. Wood instruments like clarinets and oboes, lose their characteristic timbre.



Well, maybe I listen to music very softly so my ears are able to pick up the differences in the soundstage and timbre in voices and possibly dynamic range. I don't really know how to describe it but you just hear the difference.

You can try it here: http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

Just for reference, I listen on the lowest level on my V20 at night in bed. Sometimes, I even turn down the amplification to -6dB from 0 because it is too loud for me... @_@

I would definitely re-do the tests with my other KZs and see how easy it is to pick out the loseless vs lossy audio.

Regarding the ED12, what I noticed that it would push back some sounds in the back further away and bring forward some sounds that are in the front even closer.

It's like listening to a band and the vocalist is singing right beside you and the drums are playing from the backstage instead of them being on the stage together.


----------



## kokakolia

Viber said:


> Yea, they are pretty boring.
> They hit the ball out of the park in terms of imaging though, it's amazing how good they are for movies and video games (unless there is music in the scene )



I absolutely loved my ED7s until I wrecked them. Some guy on amazon says that the ATR and ED7 are basically the same. The highs and lows were gentle, and vocals sounded very close. It's very relaxing and warm sounding. That's what I like.


----------



## -sandro- (Sep 22, 2017)

Mellowship said:


> People call ATR "neutral". I call them "dull". *They absorb the tiniest bit of magic in music... *
> I also bought ATR because of the early great impressions. I don't regret. It is always a risk doing so. We are all different.



Wow yes, I have near neutral ones like the sound magic E10 and the monoprice horrible ones and I don't see how ATR can be called neutral. I already said this, the mids sound like this: take a lossless audio file which sound awesome and convert it to 96Kbit -MP3-. That's how mids sound. Combine that with dull tuning...
I don't think a got bad one, since everything else seems as described.


----------



## manjunath1915

Has anyone tried 2 iems in 2 ears but on single cable like zs5 n es3 on same cable could share ur experience


----------



## Superluc (Sep 22, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> and the ZSE, well I'm feeling nervous as I wait.


Come on... we are talking about a damn cheap pair of IEM, buy them is like try a different pizza or sandwich 

It's limits can be easily perceived, but they also have something, like the comfort, fun and warm signature, that can be very enjoyable. Is just unfair to expect them to be more resolving than more pricey and recommended equipment. 
The ZS6 is already something to be more careful, at that tag price, but we already know that the ZS5 is a good pair. If the ZS6 accomplice to bring some extra kick, mids presence, and smoothness in highs, with better tonality, i may be very happy with them. 

The trust can be a problem in this kind of forum, we all have different sources, perception and claims, but trust need to be gained in due time, everywhere, not only here. Just don't think that any new face is a scammer


----------



## Slater (Sep 22, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> Everytime I think I'm out...
> 
> 
> ATR, ZSE were boths praised beyond reason by those not to be named specifically, but have disappeared of late for some reason. Now we see the flip side.
> It's possible there are duds out there. But I trusted people and I feel like I was let down, never mind what I think about the sound, I spent the money because I was told they were good. I have ATR and it's pretty good, and the ZSE, well I'm feeling nervous as I wait. For the record the ATR stays at home mostly because it is a cable up and I can't see myself messying with cables when I'm in public.



So what are you looking for in an IEM? Obviously you said cable down. What other features do you require? What sound are you looking for? What genres do you listen to? What are you using to listen to the music on? Do you have an amp?

So you got a couple of duds (for you). At least you didn't invest $100 each. Get back up on the horse and lets find you something else you can enjoy. No one is intentionally trying to mislead you here. It's not like we all secretly have KZ stock, or get a dollar for every IEM we recommend.

The ZSE and ATR are still very enjoyable IEMs for a lot of people (or genres of music). You can just use them for movies or gaming. Or you can always give them to someone as a gift (or sell them both as a package on the for sale forum). A significant other, sibling, parent, friend, coworker, etc. I'm sure they would be enjoyed by most people you give them to, since at least 50% of the population is walking around in HiFi ignorance who think the only thing that exists is crappy IEMs like free apple earbuds, $5 skull candys, or dollar store earphones.


----------



## Slater

manjunath1915 said:


> Has anyone tried 2 iems in 2 ears but on single cable like zs5 n es3 on same cable could share ur experience



I've tried to AB compare like that before and it really doesn't work for me. 1 of my ears is slightly different than the other, and besides our brains mix the sound together.

When trying to AB compare I sometimes just use a Y-splitter.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> I've tried to AB compare like that before and it really doesn't work for me. 1 of my ears is slightly different than the other, and besides our brains mix the sound together.
> 
> When trying to AB compare I sometimes just use a Y-splitter.


I usually listen to a whole album before switching.


----------



## Slater (Sep 22, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> I usually listen to a whole album before switching.



Good call. Or it's good to have a set playlist of songs you know like the back of your hand.

I just use the splitter when I need speed of switching. Like if I want to quickly hear how that ride cymbal or snare drum sounds in this vs that head/earphone. It works better for full size headphones that IEMs.

Humans have terrible sound memory, so I try and reduce the length of time when comparing micro details and stuff.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> Good call. Or it's good to have a set playlist of songs you know like the back of your hand.
> 
> I just use the splitter when I need speed of switching. Like if I want to quickly head how that highhat sounds in this vs that piece of gear. It works better for full size headphones that IEMs.


Ahhh ha. I see what you mean. Cymbals sound fantastic on ES3.


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> Ahhh ha. I see what you mean. Cymbals sound fantastic on ES3.



One of the few KZs I don't have.


----------



## Mellowship

kokakolia said:


> I absolutely loved my ED7s until I wrecked them. Some guy on amazon says that the ATR and ED7 are basically the same. The highs and lows were gentle, and vocals sounded very close. It's very relaxing and warm sounding. That's what I like.


The ED7 are relaxing and warm, big bass, vshaped with slight roll off on the treble. So, a fun sound. Nothing to do with ATR.


----------



## -sandro-

Slater said:


> So what are you looking for in an IEM? Obviously you said cable down. What other features do you require? What sound are you looking for? What genres do you listen to? What are you using to listen to the music on? Do you have an amp?
> 
> So you got a couple of duds (for you). At least you didn't invest $100 each. Get back up on the horse and lets find you something else you can enjoy. No one is intentionally trying to mislead you here. It's not like we all secretly have KZ stock, or get a dollar for every IEM we recommend.
> 
> The ZSE and ATR are still very enjoyable IEMs for a lot of people (or genres of music). You can just use them for movies or gaming. Or you can always give them to someone as a gift (or sell them both as a package on the for sale forum). A significant other, sibling, parent, friend, coworker, etc. I'm sure they would be enjoyed by most people you give them to, since at least 50% of the population is walking around in HiFi ignorance who think the only thing that exists is crappy IEMs like free apple earbuds, $5 skull candys, or dollar store earphones.



Make that > 90%.


----------



## Slater (Sep 22, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> I absolutely loved my ED7s until I wrecked them. Some guy on amazon says that the ATR and ED7 are basically the same. The highs and lows were gentle, and vocals sounded very close. It's very relaxing and warm sounding. That's what I like.



I never pay attention to Amazon reviews for audio gear. 98% of the people (who didn't get it free for a review, or that isn't a fake review) say everything is "the best I've ever heard" and "really clear" and $20 headphones that "sound as good as my $1200 blah blah".


----------



## Slater

-sandro- said:


> Make that > 90%.



haha, yeah that's closer to the truth.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> I never pay attention to Amazon reviews for audio gear. 98% of the people (who didn't get it free for a review, or that isn't a fake review) say everything is "the best I've ever heard" and "really clear" and $20 headphones that "sound as good as my $1200 blah blah".


This is hilarious


----------



## Ders Olmaz

try this https://www.fakespot.com


----------



## Slater

Ders Olmaz said:


> try this https://www.fakespot.com



Fakespot is OK for weeding out the fake reviews, but it doesn't weed out stupid people haha


----------



## skajohyros

Just finished a 2 hour session of Queen with these.
The Beyers are good but man can the zs5 hold its own. At the current price, I might just buy a life time supply. Hope the zs6 is even better.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 22, 2017)

tamsaiming2003 said:


> (I order the more renowned 7N OCC one though)


This one ?

EDIT: maybe this

EDIT 2: THEY SEEM WITHOUT MEMORY WIRE


----------



## Superluc

Found them on Aliexpress... but more expensive than upgrade KZ cables. 30$ vs more or less 8$


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> Found them on Aliexpress... but more expensive than upgrade KZ cables. 30$ vs more or less 8$



Is this the cable you're looking for?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ne-Upgrade-Cable-for-kz-ED12/32833103008.html


----------



## Superluc

No, tamsaiming talk about a different cable. Searching i have found the one posted before, but dunno if it is the one that him buy.


----------



## vector84

I just noticed in the description of most of those offical KZ OFC cables it notes 0.78mm pins even when the product name says otherwise


----------



## Fox2twenty

I love Gearbest


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Is this the cable you're looking for?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ne-Upgrade-Cable-for-kz-ED12/32833103008.html



What about these?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...lgo_pvid=fec832f1-5a86-440c-8c7b-db902b543d2b


----------



## Lord Rexter

groucho69 said:


> What about these?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...lgo_pvid=fec832f1-5a86-440c-8c7b-db902b543d2b



I have this one and it works on both ZS5 and ZS3 no issues. A little better than the Silver cable.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Lord Rexter said:


> I have this one and it works on both ZS5 and ZS3 no issues. A little better than the Silver cable.


That looks radical, where did you find it?


----------



## maxxevv

They are aftermarket "KZ gold plated cable"  if you search in Aliexpress.


----------



## Fox2twenty

maxxevv said:


> They are aftermarket "KZ gold plated cable"  if you search in Aliexpress.


Okay cool... But I just realized today that I order from Gearbest because they take PayPal. I'll check it out though.


----------



## NeonHD (Sep 22, 2017)

Hey guys you can get 6 pairs of those KZ starline tips on eBay for only 99 cents! 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-pairs-In...Ear-tip-Earbuds-For-KZ-ED12-ZS2-/132283868874

BTW never tried the starline tips before, do they "tweak" or "enhance" the sound a bit?


----------



## snip3r77

Why so few reviews that are out for the zs6?


----------



## CYoung234

snip3r77 said:


> Why so few reviews that are out for the zs6?



Because only a couple of people have received them so far. Probably a bad question, but have you been reading the thread? If you had been, you would know this.


----------



## LUCILLE667

Lord Rexter said:


> I have this one and it works on both ZS5 and ZS3 no issues. A little better than the Silver cable.


How would you compare the build quality of this cable over the silver cable? From the pictures they look similar apart from the clear casing. I'm asking cuz I have the silver cable and the woven cable before the y split always gets bendy and crooked no matter how much I straighten it.


----------



## vector84

Those cables can be found on Amazon too btw (at a hefty premium):
https://www.amazon.com/****-KZ-ZS5-Replacement-Headphones/dp/B0756TQQPZ/


----------



## Fox2twenty

So I thought I didn't like the ZS5 anymore... Then I pushed them back in.

I guess most iems depend on the fit.


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> So I thought I didn't like the ZS5 anymore... Then I pushed them back in.
> 
> I guess most iems depend on the fit.



Absolutely. IEMs depend on the fit (seal) for correct sound. Earbuds, no.

Glad you gave the ZS5 another try - they are great earphones.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> Absolutely. IEMs depend on the fit (seal) for correct sound. Earbuds, no.
> 
> Glad you gave the ZS5 another try - they are great earphones.


I agree. I hope the rumors about the Zs6 having more bass and Soundstage are true though.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Fox2twenty said:


> That looks radical, where did you find it?


I bought this on Aliexpress check them out here


----------



## Lord Rexter

LUCILLE667 said:


> How would you compare the build quality of this cable over the silver cable? From the pictures they look similar apart from the clear casing. I'm asking cuz I have the silver cable and the woven cable before the y split always gets bendy and crooked no matter how much I straighten it.


The gold cable has a different Y splitter and is a little stronger and the length is a little more than silver cable. Build wise they are quite similar, so have the issue of getting tangled quite often/easily.


----------



## vector84

So this came up several pages back as an idea but with one in hand...

I sure do love a nice black background, and as expected, with an iFi Ear Buddy connected my KZs (ZS5, ZSE) seem to play nice across my various questionable quality sources - even with my on-board Realtek.  Granted it's a fix that costs more than most KZs, but such is the world of Chi-Fi, I suppose?  It's also a solution that appeals to my less rational side (having another battery to worry about when I don't want it louder...) - so there's always the chance that it's just all in my head. 

I'm sure a more appropriate dac/amp setup for IEM use or something considerably more powerful and an IEMatch would do better... but that's starting to sound like a much more expensive solution...


----------



## blazinblazin

Fox2twenty said:


> I agree. I hope the rumors about the Zs6 having more bass and Soundstage are true though.


I only heard ZS6 having sibilance.


----------



## blazinblazin

I read in another forum ZS6 batch having problem and shop cannot be shipped. Need to send back for repair.


----------



## Fox2twenty

blazinblazin said:


> I read in another forum ZS6 batch having problem and shop cannot be shipped. Need to send back for repair.


Damnnnnnn duuuude, at least KZ is actually trying quality control this time.


----------



## maxxevv

Shall hang on the orders until Gearbest start doing clearances for them in a few months. And maybe a Rev. B along the way ....    

(Seriously doubt I can hold out thatvlong though....  )


----------



## snip3r77

CYoung234 said:


> Because only a couple of people have received them so far. Probably a bad question, but have you been reading the thread? If you had been, you would know this.


Because there is qc issues


----------



## djmakemynight

While fiddling with the Note8 and OPPO HA-2, I reached for KZ ZS3. I thought I heard thunder and went to check my window. No clouds... That nostalgic vacuum fit and deep bass... I missed you.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

I have a question i have Kze3s should i buy zs5? @Fox2twenty


----------



## ReBreaker

Guys when we are discussing cables... I just can't make a decision about a cable for the ZS5

This one: 
http://s.aliexpress.com/RNBVvUNb
(I'm a little worry about possible oxidation)

Or this one mentioned recently:
http://s.aliexpress.com/IZNrYvAn

Which one do you prefer as an upgrade from the classic thin silver cable?


----------



## SummerRainbowz

blazinblazin said:


> I read in another forum ZS6 batch having problem and shop cannot be shipped. Need to send back for repair.


Damn, I really hope my pair that I bought from Taobao isn't affected by such issues, as it would be quite a PITA to replace them.


----------



## Griffith

Fox2twenty said:


> Damnnnnnn duuuude, at least KZ is actually trying quality control this time.



Shouldn't QC be something you do before you have to send something back to the factory...?


----------



## Viber

Fox2twenty said:


> Damnnnnnn duuuude, at least KZ is actually trying quality control this time.



They did a recall for the first ZS3 batch as well.


----------



## Frederick Wang (Sep 23, 2017)

Have ZS6 for half a day, beautiful earbuds, sound quality is good overall, the only bone to pick with perhaps is the bass, too boomy for my taste.
I will keep it and find some use for it, worth more than its asking price even just for its appearance, sound quality is way better than anything I bought in the price range.

Edit: the mic cable comes with it feels very cheap, I didn't even bothering try it on.


----------



## djmakemynight

ReBreaker said:


> Guys when we are discussing cables... I just can't make a decision about a cable for the ZS5
> 
> This one:
> http://s.aliexpress.com/RNBVvUNb
> ...



I would go for the 2nd option. If the silver cable turns green. It won't be pretty. Unless u like green.


----------



## jaydm99 (Sep 23, 2017)

[DEL]


----------



## jaydm99

KZ ZS6. Photo credits: UrbanAudiophile (PH)


----------



## Superluc

blazinblazin said:


> I only heard ZS6 having sibilance.


----------



## Superluc

Frederick Wang said:


> Have ZS6 for half a day, beautiful earbuds, sound quality is good overall, the only bone to pick with perhaps is the bass, too boomy for my taste.
> I will keep it and find some use for it, worth more than its asking price even just for its appearance, sound quality is way better than anything I bought in the price range.
> 
> Edit: the mic cable comes with it feels very cheap, I didn't even bothering try it on.


You have any other KZ model to compare ?


----------



## Frederick Wang

Superluc said:


> You have any other KZ model to compare ?


Not currently


----------



## Superluc

Frederick Wang said:


> Not currently


Ok. So, aside some boominess, you feel some harshness anywhere ? How you can describe what you listen between mids, highs, vocal presentation, instrument separation, tonality ?


----------



## Frederick Wang

there is a little bit grainy in the high range, but as I said I had it only half a day, it would be premature for me to pass any evaluation. 
Aside from boominess it lives up to my expectation. Vocal / Instrument separation is quite good actually.


----------



## Superluc

Frederick Wang said:


> there is a little bit grainy in the high range, but as I said I had it only half a day, it would be premature for me to pass any evaluation.


Understandable. Let us know when you have burn them a bit


----------



## ReBreaker

djmakemynight said:


> I would go for the 2nd option. If the silver cable turns green. It won't be pretty. Unless u like green.


You have right, It happened on my thin silver cable already and it turns out that I'm not a huge fan of green  The gray cable with the gray version of ZS5 looks gorgeous though


----------



## Fox2twenty

Ders Olmaz said:


> I have a question i have Kze3s should i buy zs5? @Fox2twenty


Definitely. The ZS5 has more soundstage. And brighter treble. 

... I mean, unless you just want to wait for the Zs6.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 23, 2017)

Ders Olmaz said:


> I have a question i have Kze3s should i buy zs5?


ZS5 have more clarity than ZS3, bigger soundstage, more details and brighter highs. ZS3 are more bassy and low-fi, but more comfortable and way less harsh on highs and sibilance.
To me, they are different beast. ZSE is already more similar to ZS3, with warm and details added, but with more congested presentation and microphonic, not exchangeable, cable. ES3, witch i don't have it, are also considered fun and bassy, see here

Aside the newer ZS6, it seem that KZ want to release an hybrid dual or multi driver with the ZS3 case, if you are interested in an upgraded version of the ZS3.


----------



## manjunath1915

Ders Olmaz said:


> I have a question i have Kze3s should i buy zs5? @Fox2twenty


I received kz es3 n kz zse while i had kz zs5 and i think kz es3 is fantastic but it came with 0.78 mm cable which i grinded to make it fit  so qc issue again


----------



## Superluc

Oh... e3s... so Olmaz was talking about ES3... i have miss read


----------



## Fox2twenty

manjunath1915 said:


> I received kz es3 n kz zse while i had kz zs5 and i think kz es3 is fantastic but it came with 0.78 mm cable which i grinded to make it fit  so qc issue again


The ES3 is pretty great. More "fun" than the ZS5's, so I think you can enjoy both.


----------



## HiFiChris

Are there any frequency response measurements of the KZ ES3? I'm not sure if I really want more "fun" than the ZS5 already gives (not meant in a negative way, I just don't want a stronger v-/w-shape).


----------



## Fox2twenty

HiFiChris said:


> Are there any frequency response measurements of the KZ ES3? I'm not sure if I really want more "fun" than the ZS5 already gives (not meant in a negative way, I just don't want a stronger v-/w-shape).


It's not necessarily a different signature... It's more dynamic sounding due to the music sounding "closer" if that makes sense.


----------



## Fox2twenty

And.... I think the ES3 looks cool..


----------



## Superluc

HiFiChris said:


> Are there any frequency response measurements of the KZ ES3? I'm not sure if I really want more "fun" than the ZS5 already gives (not meant in a negative way, I just don't want a stronger v-/w-shape).


Vidal's "web graph" is all about quantity, on frequency response, but how a single boost can have impact on overall sound may be different, even between tips selection.


----------



## vector84

HiFiChris said:


> Are there any frequency response measurements of the KZ ES3? I'm not sure if I really want more "fun" than the ZS5 already gives (not meant in a negative way, I just don't want a stronger v-/w-shape).


I don't want to post my completely uncalibrated measurements, and the ES3 lends itself to deeper insertion (longer nozzle), but I measured without tips (and at equal nozzle depth)

I was able to pretty perfectly match a modded ZS5 to the working ES3 sample I received with a little over half the vent covered and the nozzle packed around the BA with a bit of foam from a ZS3.

I was seeing a fairly flat +2-3dB across 20-1000Hz and around -3-4dB peak cut from 3500-4500kHz from those changes.


----------



## CYoung234

ReBreaker said:


> Guys when we are discussing cables... I just can't make a decision about a cable for the ZS5
> 
> This one:
> http://s.aliexpress.com/RNBVvUNb
> ...



I just ordered the first one. I am personally more concerned about the connectors than about it turning green. I have one of the KZ upgrade cables, but the 2.5mm jack is a loose fit in my phone. The original ZS5 cable is much better in this respect. I switched back to the original ZS5 cable for now.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

thank you guys for helping. i like es3 much. and read zs6 has balance issues. somewhere people write zs5 has sound like 100 plus iems and because of that when i see its price 15 usd i think should i buy? because of i dont have high price iems i ask you the question.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 23, 2017)

Ders Olmaz said:


> thank you guys for helping. i like es3 much. and read zs6 has balance issues. somewhere people write zs5 has sound like 100 plus iems and because of that when i see its price 15 usd i think should i buy? because of i dont have high price iems i ask you the question.


Don't believe in who make that kind of assumption. As others said, the basic comment for everything is like that.
Chi-fi is making progress day by day, but as the budget segment grow, also do the higher. It's just that now we can buy something cheaper that some years ago could be worth more money. It's best to try to compare and understand what kind of signature, balance and tonality do you want from an headphone, than listen to that kind of pointless comment.


----------



## kokakolia

I couldn't wait for my KZ ZS6 to arrive so I ordered the KZ ATE. Knowing Chi-Fi, they'll probably ship 1 week sooner than the ZS6. 

I read a bunch a reviews online and they seem right up my alley. I like warm sounding headphones. I am just a little worried about the treble. I just hope it's not too shrill. The ED9s gave me headaches.


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> I couldn't wait for my KZ ZS6 to arrive so I ordered the KZ ATE. Knowing Chi-Fi, they'll probably ship 1 week sooner than the ZS6.
> 
> I read a bunch a reviews online and they seem right up my alley. I like warm sounding headphones. I am just a little worried about the treble. I just hope it's not too shrill. The ED9s gave me headaches.



No, ATE is not sharp like the ED9 (although it's much less sharp with the shiny gold filter). The ED9 uses a titanium driver, which can be very bright and sometimes sharp. ATE uses a PET driver.

Also, if you want a little more bass out of the ATE, you can tape or glue the vent at the nozzle. It makes a world of difference.


----------



## randomnin

Superluc said:


>


So what's sibilance anyway? Or does the fact that I like the sound chalk/nails make when scratching a blackboard disqualify me from ever understanding sibilance? :S


----------



## AndrewPL

vector84 said:


> Those cables can be found on Amazon too btw (at a hefty premium):
> https://www.amazon.com/****-KZ-ZS5-Replacement-Headphones/dp/B0756TQQPZ/


I've seen that cable on amazon but in the description it says it's silver plated cable and gold is just a colour of the cable.
I'm confused , exactly the same item on alieexpress is called gold plated but on amazon is silver plated in gold (yellow) colour
https://www.amazon.com/****-KZ-ZS5-Replacement-Headphones/dp/B0756SR2Y2/?th=1


----------



## vector84

AndrewPL said:


> I've seen that cable on amazon but in the description it says it's silver plated cable and gold is just a colour of the cable.
> I'm confused , exactly the same item on alieexpress is called gold plated but on amazon is silver plated in gold (yellow) colour
> https://www.amazon.com/****-KZ-ZS5-Replacement-Headphones/dp/B0756SR2Y2/?th=1


Pretty sure the "gold plated" is just some gold colored foil over silver plated wires - iirc a native speaker confirmed this is how they're listed in Chinese?  But I don't have links or anything to confirm that.


----------



## Lord Rexter

ReBreaker said:


> You have right, It happened on my thin silver cable already and it turns out that I'm not a huge fan of green  The gray cable with the gray version of ZS5 looks gorgeous though


Well you might want to consider 2.5mm copper cable here, cost a little bit more $19 ($2 off with coupon). They are very comfortable, no microphonics & balanced; furthermore you can use them on both ZS5 and ZS3.


----------



## Keller2

Superluc said:


> ZS5 have more clarity than ZS3, bigger soundstage, more details and brighter highs. ZS3 are more bassy and low-fi, but more comfortable and way less harsh on highs and sibilance.
> To me, they are different beast. ZSE is already more similar to ZS3, with warm and details added, but with more congested presentation and microphonic, not exchangeable, cable. ES3, witch i don't have it, are also considered fun and bassy, see here
> 
> Aside the newer ZS6, it seem that KZ want to release an hybrid dual or multi driver with the ZS3 case, if you are interested in an upgraded version of the ZS3.


The ES3 and ZS3 are only alike in that they both have elevated bass. The ES3 is nothing like the ZS3 in the rest of the signature. It's very resolving, it has decently nice sparkly highs, and in general has a better sound signature (IMO) The only spot where the ZS3 wins is the Shell, which is insanely comfy once you start putting it on right.


----------



## Sylmar

Keller2 said:


> The ES3 and ZS3 are only alike in that they both have elevated bass. The ES3 is nothing like the ZS3 in the rest of the signature. It's very resolving, it has decently nice sparkly highs, and in general has a better sound signature (IMO) The only spot where the ZS3 wins is the Shell, which is insanely comfy once you start putting it on right.



I hope KZ will re-use the ZS3 shell for other IEMS. It's very comfortable.


----------



## Superluc

Keller2 said:


> The ES3 and ZS3 are only alike in that they both have elevated bass. The ES3 is nothing like the ZS3 in the rest of the signature. It's very resolving, it has decently nice sparkly highs, and in general has a better sound signature (IMO) The only spot where the ZS3 wins is the Shell, which is insanely comfy once you start putting it on right.


Interesting.


randomnin said:


> So what's sibilance anyway? Or does the fact that I like the sound chalk/nails make when scratching a blackboard disqualify me from ever understanding sibilance? :S


Is that harsh ssssssh in voices, when especially woman vocalist sound like sssserpents 

It exist on nature and recording, so their presence may also depend on mixing and mastering of the song, but some headphones are tuned better than others on keep them under control, without sacrifice too much treble and details.
I'm very very sensitive to that kind of harshness, but if you like it a lot buy a pair of ZST colored 
I hope that ZS6 may be better tuned than ZS5 in higher frequency reproduction, in both sibilance and tonality, i'm not the kind of guy that like too brighter headphones.


----------



## Ynot1

If I had a nickel for everytime some one on headfi said everbody hears differently, I could buy a few too many kz top of the lines.
And I was thinking why not just measure the hearing sensitivity. I'm sure audiologist can do it with the technology available today.
Basically neurons use electrical signals when there are activity going on and people have measured this. 
As for the brain's abilitiy to process spatial information I suspect goes into genetics and algorithms, which by the way are all above my head.
But that is besides the point.


----------



## kokakolia

Superluc said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Is that harsh ssssssh in voices, when especially woman vocalist sound like sssserpents
> 
> ...



Same here! I loathe bright earphones! After reading your post, I am not even sure if I want the ZS6 anymore. I almost ordered the ZS5, but the newer, tougher ZS6 showed up. But I want to know what the fuss is all about with the KZ "flagships". And I really liked the "dull sounding" (warm, soft bass & mellow treble) KZ ED7s, so I'm still hooked on KZ.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 24, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> If I had a nickel for everytime some one on headfi said everbody hears differently, I could buy a few too many kz top of the lines.
> And I was thinking why not just measure the hearing sensitivity. I'm sure audiologist can do it with the technology available today.


Sure, there are products on the market that do that - a new one just came out a few months ago even.
They are generally poorly received - probably because as much current research suggests, there's way more to it than just sensitivity to pure tones.


Ynot1 said:


> Basically neurons use electrical signals when there are activity going on and people have measured this.


Last I checked we were still a quite a few years short of having all that mapped out - we've think we can do it for a roundworm!  And we're taking early steps with rat brains...


Ynot1 said:


> As for the brain's abilitiy to process spatial information I suspect goes into genetics and algorithms, which by the way are all above my head.


Social conditioning plays a fascinating role in what we hear too - ref tritone paradox.
Spatial information though is a lot better understood than a lot of other things though (HRTFs)


Plenty of people have spent their entire lives studying the peculiarities of human hearing...  though with VR tech pushing money in the general direction of that sort of research, I would imagine we'll see better functional approximations in the years to come.


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> Same here! I loathe bright earphones! After reading your post, I am not even sure if I want the ZS6 anymore. I almost ordered the ZS5, but the newer, tougher ZS6 showed up. But I want to know what the fuss is all about with the KZ "flagships". And I really liked the "dull sounding" (warm, soft bass & mellow treble) KZ ED7s, so I'm still hooked on KZ.


Let just wait and see. For now only blazinblazin have talked about "sibilance", but without tell us who is the source of that comment.


----------



## BrunoC (Sep 24, 2017)

Let's just wait for a credible ZS6 review.
We cannot start rumours based on nothing or just some random unjustified comment.

The ZS5 is fantastic. I bet the ZS6 will be no worse, maybe even better and more airy due to the vents.
We need a lot of patience I know, but it might be worth it.


----------



## Superluc

BrunoC said:


> Let's just wait for a credible ZS6 review.
> We cannot start rumours based on nothing or just some random unjustified comment.


You are right.


----------



## Viber (Sep 24, 2017)

BrunoC said:


> Let's just wait for a credible ZS6 review.
> We cannot start rumours based on nothing or just some random unjustified comment.
> 
> The ZS5 is fantastic. I bet the ZS6 will be no worse, maybe even better and more airy due to the vents.
> We need a lot of patience I know, but it might be worth it.



With some luck, i might get the ZS6 next week and i promise to write a review


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> I hope KZ will re-use the ZS3 shell for other IEMS. It's very comfortable.



I was under the impression they were, with the ZS3 hybrid that's due out soon?


----------



## kokakolia

Slater said:


> I was under the impression they were, with the ZS3 hybrid that's due out soon?



Would a hybrid be that much better though? I mean, theoretically more drivers equals less distortion but a singular driver performs very well already...So I don't see the point. The 4 drivers in the ZS5 is bonkers in retrospect. Is it a gimmick or not?


----------



## gwompki (Sep 24, 2017)

I have had my ES3, silver upgrade cable for ZS5, silver upgrade cable for ES3, and Bluetooth cable for ZST forabout a week now.  Here are my impressions:

Bluetooth cable for ZST:
https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html
Sound is fantastic.  Implementation is not great.  The volume up/down buttons don't seem to have any effect on volume but a double press in either direction will skip songs.  Twice the connection has freaked out and the sound will just sound like a drum machine.  When this happens, holding the power button to turn it off seemingly has no effect and the device cannot be powered off.  However it will eventually correct itself and repair the connection after 60-90 seconds. I'm not sure if this is happening on its own or because I have continued to hold the power button.  I have found that it is great while working out in the gym, but when running, the BT module is a bit too big and bulky and bounces around a good bit.  This has the unfortunate effect of slightly (not fully) pulling the IEM out of the ear.  At the end of the day, even with all of my gripes, it's been an awesome device to make my ZST more gym friendly.  The sound really is top notch at a very reasonable price.

ES3 impressions:
https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_709296.html
This is a strange one and I feel like I need more time before I can adequately judge.  It definitely has more mid-focus than the ZST and ZS5, but I'm not sure it's really in a good way.  The emphasis seems to be on the lower mids so it seems there is some boomy bass / woob woob / wet blanket effect in comparison to the other two mentioned.  I would say it's more similar to the ZS3 but unfortunately I gifted that to my niece so I don't have that as a comparison.  It very well could be that my ears have become so accustomed to the ZS5 sig which have a U shaped sig, that The mids just sound a little boomy.  I'm still undecided on this one.  Sometimes I love it, and other times I take it out of my ears after 5 mins.  Definitely prefer the ZS5 and ZST so far.  I will try to post an update after another week.

Cables:
https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html
And
https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712521.html
They look good, feel good and reduce the microphonic effect of stock cables.  They aren't nearly as prone to tangle.  The memory wire is much more of a nuisance than the stock cables.  The memory wire on stock seems to just stay where ever you want it.  The memory wire on the silver cables seems more springy like you have to fight it to get it to stay in position.

 I wish I had a measurement rig because I feel like these cables enhance the mids on  both the ES3 and ZS5.  This is nice on the ZS5, but not great on ES3.  I won't swear to this phenomenon because the amount of time it takes to change the cables is too long for any sort of objective testing.  Probably snake oil inherent bias.  Lol


----------



## vector84

gwompki said:


> I wish I had a measurement rig because I feel like these cables enhance the mids on  both the ES3 and ZS5.  This is nice on the ZS5, but not great on ES3.  I won't swear to this phenomenon because the amount of time it takes to change the cables is too long for any sort of objective testing.  Probably snake oil inherent bias.  Lol


So I posted this before but you should actually be able to hear an objective difference from the cables imo - reason being the stock cable are likely limited by inherently insufficient electrical properties - any properly gauged cable matched with the ZS5 should be around 2 dB louder than the stock one.

There may be other coloring effects, but first you'd need to SPL match to be sure it's not just a volume artifact.


----------



## 1clearhead

OK, so far I've been translating many of the taobao reviewers from China that purchased the ZS6 and most of them definitely say that the ZS6 has more bass, wider soundstage, and more highs with the cost of sounding a bit more harsh. Though it sounds exciting, I'll wait for more reviews, since it sounds more to me like a strong V-shape sound signature.

....I was really hoping it sounded more like the ZS5, but in a metal shell.  It needs more reviews from outside of China for written English results.


----------



## kokakolia

1clearhead said:


> OK, so far I've been translating many of the taobao reviewers from China that purchased the ZS6 and most of them definitely say that the ZS6 has more bass, wider soundstage, and more highs with the cost of sounding a bit more harsh. Though it sounds exciting, I'll wait for more reviews, since it sounds more to me like a strong V-shape sound signature.
> 
> ....I was really hoping it sounded more like the ZS5, but in a metal shell.  It needs more reviews from outside of China for written English results.



More highs!? NO! I don't want them anymore. No thanks!


----------



## snip3r77

1clearhead said:


> OK, so far I've been translating many of the taobao reviewers from China that purchased the ZS6 and most of them definitely say that the ZS6 has more bass, wider soundstage, and *more highs* with the cost of sounding a bit more harsh. Though it sounds exciting, I'll wait for more reviews, since it sounds more to me like a strong V-shape sound signature.
> 
> ....I was really hoping it sounded more like the ZS5, but in a metal shell.  It needs more reviews from outside of China for written English results.



this might be an issue as zs5 is already a tad sibilant already.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Although it should be noted that I don't find the ZS5 (v1) as fatiguing overall as the ED9s.


----------



## DeltaRay

Know that everyone is kinda waiting for more zs6 reviews. 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html
Gearbest now has flash sales for zs6!


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> Would a hybrid be that much better though? I mean, theoretically more drivers equals less distortion but a singular driver performs very well already...So I don't see the point. The 4 drivers in the ZS5 is bonkers in retrospect. Is it a gimmick or not?



Not necessarily. There are plenty of great sounding single dynamics. Just making something a hybrid doesn’t guarantee it’s better no matter how many drivers are added.

But the ZS3 shell is the bomb, and I’m hoping that’s the shell they choose regardless of what configuration the drivers will be. They’d have to retool it with a larger nozzle, because the existing ZS3 nozzle is way too narrow to fit a BA driver.

We’ll just have to wait and see how it all pans out. But if the ES3 and ZS5 are any indication, I have no worries that they’ll get it right.


----------



## Slater (Sep 25, 2017)

gwompki said:


> I have had my ES3, silver upgrade cable for ZS5, silver upgrade cable for ES3, and Bluetooth cable for ZST forabout a week now.  Here are my impressions:
> 
> Bluetooth cable for ZST:
> https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html
> Sound is fantastic.  Implementation is not great.  The volume up/down buttons don't seem to have any effect on volume but a double press in either direction will skip songs.



For volume you have to hold the buttons down. After about 2 seconds it will adjust the volume (as you continue to hold the button down). When it reaches the desired volume, simply let off the button.


----------



## Superluc

Slater said:


> I was under the impression they were, with the ZS3 hybrid that's due out soon?


hillsonicaudio said this, on late august:



> there will be a new ZS3 hybrid too next month along with ZS6 and ZSR the following month which should be a 3 drivers design.


----------



## Sylmar

Slater said:


> I was under the impression they were, with the ZS3 hybrid that's due out soon?



I have no idea about future KZ products but let's hope they will re-use the ZS3 form for comfort.


----------



## groucho69

DeltaRay said:


> Know that everyone is kinda waiting for more zs6 reviews.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html
> Gearbest now has flash sales for zs6!



That's about what I paid at Banggood some time ago.


----------



## DeltaRay

groucho69 said:


> That's about what I paid at Banggood some time ago.


Matches fasttech too!


----------



## HiFiChris (Sep 25, 2017)

http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/09/kz-zs6-frequency-response.html


----------



## sghound

my gawd dat 10k spike


----------



## HiFiChris

sghound said:


> my gawd dat 10k spike


----------



## TJK81

My KZ ZS5's just arrived.
According to photos there are rev.2


 

 
First impressions...  Very V or U shaped. Very bright treble (i like K702 signature which are... lets say similar).


----------



## Drakis

TJK81 said:


> My KZ ZS5's just arrived.
> According to photos there are rev.2
> 
> 
> ...



Where did you buy yours?


----------



## TJK81

Purchased from GB two-three weeks ago. Those one without a mic.


----------



## chi2

Thanks for the measurement, Chris. Just cancelled my ZS6 preorder.


----------



## HiFiChris

chi2 said:


> Thanks for the measurement, Chris. Just cancelled my ZS6 preorder.





They definitely went a bit (well, more than just that) overboard with the upper highs.

If you want to give the Campfire Audio lookalikes a try, the ZS5 (well, I cannot say whether the "new" 2-BA-drivers-in-the-nozzle ZS5 is the same as the one I have on hand) would definitely be the preferred choice. Sure, there are two or three (more premium shells, slightly higher midrange details and more correct midrange in comparison, as well as slightly better defined bass) things the ZS6 makes a little better, but the upper treble spike just kills it. The only scenario where the ZS6 works is fm radio listening with my iPod Nano 7G. For real music though, it sounds too metallic, harsh (and that's also my subjective feeling as someone who listens at low volume levels and is not against a bright tuning) and sometimes sibilant with a high ear-ringing factor.


----------



## snip3r77

HiFiChris said:


> http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/09/kz-zs6-frequency-response.html


Thanks for the measurement . Saving up for zsr or zs7 lol


----------



## SummerRainbowz

Hoping for the best when my pair arrives in 1-2 weeks, since return wouldn't really be a feasible option for me.


----------



## HiFiChris

SummerRainbowz said:


> Hoping for the best when my pair arrives in 1-2 weeks, since return wouldn't really be a feasible option for me.



You could still try modding the IEM by removing the mesh and damping the nozzle output. But yeah, you really have to be a hardcore treblehead to like the stock upper treble emphasis.


----------



## SummerRainbowz

@HiFiChris I'm not too knowledgeable about audio in general, but I was wondering, would using an equalizer (since I'll be using these on my phone all the time) help at all?


----------



## HiFiChris

SummerRainbowz said:


> @HiFiChris I'm not too knowledgeable about audio in general, but I was wondering, would using an equalizer (since I'll be using these on my phone all the time) help at all?



Sure.


----------



## Tmanning47

SummerRainbowz said:


> @HiFiChris I'm not too knowledgeable about audio in general, but I was wondering, would using an equalizer (since I'll be using these on my phone all the time) help at all?


Absolutely, some people think EQ'ing is the devils work, but nothing wrong with it. Just remember to always EQ down, never up. EQ down and adjust volume to get the levels you desire.


----------



## Drakis

TJK81 said:


> Purchased from GB two-three weeks ago. Those one without a mic.



OK.


----------



## Sylmar (Sep 25, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/09/kz-zs6-frequency-response.html



Yikes!

'Enjoyable' is not exactly the word that pops up in my mind with that spike but we'll have to wait and see (not ordered yet).


----------



## chi2

Such a narrow spike suggests that there isn't only an overly high level of a (clean) signal but possibly a resonance accompanied by distortion. This given, EQing wouldn't help all that much.


----------



## groucho69

Canceled my Banggood order. If the real trusted reviews are good then I'll think about it again, likely for a lower price.


----------



## chi2

Chris' reviews certainly count to the most trustable in the net. Now these were only his first impressions but I have no doubt about them being spot on.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Yo. Anytime get their Zs6 yet?


----------



## Superluc

HiFiChris said:


> http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/09/kz-zs6-frequency-response.html









Thanks for the graph.


----------



## vector84

I was poking through a bunch of Chinese forums with Google translate...

Sounds like there's a lot of recommendations for the ZS6 to:
a) use foam tips
b) change out the screen for something made of fabric or damp the nozzle


Along with some comically translated stuff that I'm inclined to think relate to descriptions about them being treble canons... stuff like... shining peaks mountain to the sky too tall ear knife 

Which just sounds terrifying... kinda glad I haven't pulled the trigger on those yet...


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> I was poking through a bunch of Chinese forums with Google translate...
> 
> Sounds like there's a lot of recommendations for the ZS6 to:
> a) use foam tips
> ...


Too Tall Ear Knives???

Sounds like beautiful Treble Cannons.


----------



## bjaardker

My guess is the same thing is being said about the ZS5 V2. Moving both of the BAs into the nozzle is probably just too much highs.


----------



## Fox2twenty

bjaardker said:


> My guess is the same thing is being said about the ZS5 V2. Moving both of the BAs into the nozzle is probably just too much highs.


But what about foamies? They should help...


----------



## Mellowship

Glad both my ZS5 are v1.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Mellowship said:


> Glad both my ZS5 are v1.


I only see one shiny metal thing in the nozzle, so I guess I have v1.


----------



## VinceHill24

Fully agree with Chris finding. Just got the ZS6 today and haven't have much time to go through it because of busy work, but on initial first few minutes of listening ... this thing ain't just treble cannon man... it's literally a treble nuke lol. I consider myself pretty tolerant to bright treble but this ... KZ really has made a bad decision for moving the BA driver into the nozzle. I still get amazed by its soundstage and its full and deep bass which now appears to be tighter with better texture but but but the treble man.. treble ... i think i gonna try some mod on it if burn in doesn't help and i think burn-in won't help coz 1. I'm not a firm believer in burn-in. Brain burn-in yes and 2. Even if burn-in has any effect, BA is definitely the least to be benefited from.

So some take home message for the treble sensitive's. Avoid the ZS6 at all cost, you'll probably do fine with ZS5 but i'm not sure about Rev2 tho.


----------



## Fox2twenty

VinceHill24 said:


> Fully agree with Chris finding. Just got the ZS6 today and haven't have much time to go through it because of busy work, but on initial first few minutes of listening ... this thing ain't just treble cannon man... it's literally a treble nuke lol. I consider myself pretty tolerant to bright treble but this ... KZ really has made a bad decision for moving the BA driver into the nozzle. I still get amazed by its soundstage and its full and deep bass which now appears to be tighter with better texture but but but the treble man.. treble ... i think i gonna try some mod on it if burn in doesn't help and i think burn-in won't help coz 1. I'm not a firm believer in burn-in. Brain burn-in yes and 2. Even if burn-in has any effect, BA is definitely the least to be benefited from.
> 
> So some take home message for the treble sensitive's. Avoid the ZS6 at all cost, you'll probably do fine with ZS5 but i'm not sure about Rev2 tho.


TREBLE NUKES?


----------



## vladstef

HiFiChris said:


> http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/09/kz-zs6-frequency-response.html



Wow, I even had many issues with ZS5 v1 treble, ZS6 is obviously a step in the worst direction they could go for me. It is very clear to me now that KZ's BA in the nozzle needs to be redesigned from scratch, because the only thing that could have this much of an effect to this 10k peak is this additional BA in the nozzle. I suspect that slightly shifted peaks compared to ZS5 are due to metal being used instead of plastic.
I honestly expected that 2 of the same BAs in the nozzle, both producing quieter sound compared to just a single BA would fix my gripes with ZS5, but they just couldn't power them down and went overboard.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> Wow, I even had many issues with ZS5 v1 treble, ZS6 is obviously a step in the worst direction they could go for me. It is very clear to me now that KZ's BA in the nozzle needs to be redesigned from scratch, because the only thing that could have this much of an effect to this 10k peak is this additional BA in the nozzle. I suspect that slightly shifted peaks compared to ZS5 are due to metal being used instead of plastic.
> I honestly expected that 2 of the same BAs in the nozzle, both producing quieter sound compared to just a single BA would fix my gripes with ZS5, but they just couldn't power them down and went overboard.


Right. They could have doubled up with some retuning.


----------



## vector84

I went poking around a bit on Ali after getting curious about all the screen changing comments - figured there must be a source for such fabric screens with the frequency they get recommended...

But the only thing I could find are these, I think they're 5mm (based on an old listing of the same product) so they might fit?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3M-...-Cotton-diy-headset-unit-tone/2035370421.html


Dunno if anyone has had better luck finding such things


----------



## Slater

HiFiChris said:


> You could still try modding the IEM by removing the mesh and damping the nozzle output. But yeah, you really have to be a hardcore treblehead to like the stock upper treble emphasis.



That's what my plan is if I don't like them once they arrive. Did the same thing to the ZST and couldn't have been happier with the results.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> That's what my plan is if I don't like them once they arrive. Did the same thing to the ZST and couldn't have been happier with the results.


You dampered the ZST nozzle?


----------



## Superluc

It's really a shame... at least for me. Treble-head must be very pleased.

I have already gifted my pair of ZS5 v1, because of my sensitivity, but this can be just unbearable to me. From the graph, it also appear as a stronger v-shaped...

Oh well... better wait for the ZS3 hybrid


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> You dampered the ZST nozzle?



Yeah, a free 5 minute (completely reversible) mod that turned the ZST from one of my most hated IEMs into one of my favorite IEMs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> It's really a shame... at least for me. Treble-head must be very pleased.
> 
> I have already gifted my pair of ZS5 v1, because of my sensitivity, but this can be just unbearable to me. From the graph, it also appear as a stronger v-shaped...
> 
> Oh well... better wait for the ZS3 hybrid


I think the ES3 is pretty great. I would like them to add an extra dd.


----------



## chi2

Fox2twenty said:


> But what about foamies? They should help...



Foamies *in front* of the nozzle certainly would .


----------



## Fox2twenty

chi2 said:


> Foamies *in front* of the nozzle certainly would .


Yay. In for impressions.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I don't know if I already posted this here.. But I think I like the look of the ES3 better than the ZS5's.


----------



## dncnexus

Gotta clean those mate


----------



## Fox2twenty

dncnexus said:


> Gotta clean those mate


I don't wanna


----------



## peskypesky

VinceHill24 said:


> So some take home message for the treble sensitive's. Avoid the ZS6 at all cost, you'll probably do fine with ZS5 but i'm not sure about Rev2 tho.


I don't like trebly earphones...so the ZS6s are probably out. And I'd better order another set of ZS5s quick and hope i get version 1.


----------



## Fox2twenty

peskypesky said:


> I don't like trebly earphones...so the ZS6s are probably out. And I'd better order another set of ZS5s quick and hope i get version 1.


I got v1 from Gearbest


----------



## groucho69

chi2 said:


> Chris' reviews certainly count to the most trustable in the net. Now these were only his first impressions but I have no doubt about them being spot on.



Absolutely.


----------



## kokakolia

So the ZS6 sucks major butt!? Treble nukes!? May as well buy dollar store earbuds that accomplish the same thing for way less. I am gonna see if I can cancel my order. They're not cheap either. What a shame...


----------



## peskypesky

kokakolia said:


> So the ZS6 sucks major butt!? Treble nukes!? May as well buy dollar store earbuds that accomplish the same thing for way less. I am gonna see if I can cancel my order. They're not cheap either. What a shame...


That's why i decided to wait and read a bunch of reviews before ordering. I absolutely love my ZS5s, and was hoping the ZS6s would sound as good or better, in a more robust housing....but early reports are not good. I think the jury is still out though until we get more reviews.


----------



## kokakolia

peskypesky said:


> That's why i decided to wait and read a bunch of reviews before ordering. I absolutely love my ZS5s, and was hoping the ZS6s would sound as good or better, in a more robust housing....but early reports are not good. I think the jury is still out though until we get more reviews.



Yup! Luckily I pre-ordered the ZS6 so the cancellation is easy. Kudos to Banggood. 

I think I'll just stick to the ATE. Is there anything better in the KZ catalog with a warmish sound and smooth-ish treble?


----------



## HungryPanda

I will make up my mind when i get my own ZS6's, can always mod in some way


----------



## kokakolia

Actually, the perfect KZ for me would be the ZSE. And it's super cheap. I might just get one.


----------



## Fox2twenty

kokakolia said:


> Actually, the perfect KZ for me would be the ZSE. And it's super cheap. I might just get one.


Awesomeness


----------



## Superluc (Sep 25, 2017)

Now i have understand everything !!! KZ make the ZS6 with screws for simplify to us it's obviously needed modding


----------



## groucho69

Superluc said:


> Now i have understand everything !!! KZ make the ZS6 with screws for simplify to us it's obviously needed modding


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> Now i have understand everything !!! KZ make the ZS6 with screws for simplify to us it's obviously needed modding


Perfect. Lol


----------



## vladstef

At this point, now that we have quite a bit info about how ZS6 sounds, I think everyone could/should remove one of the BAs from the nozzle (hopefully it won't be too hard to remove one and keep the other firmly in place and with good connection). Somehow, I think that even removing both BAs would yield a better sound than stock, both DDs produce sound at least up to 20kHz and everyone would be happier with slight treble recession than something unusable (which ZS6 appears to be).


----------



## Fox2twenty

vladstef said:


> At this point, now that we have quite a bit info about how ZS6 sounds, I think everyone could/should remove one of the BAs from the nozzle (hopefully it won't be too hard to remove one and keep the other firmly in place and with good connection). Somehow, I think that even removing both BAs would yield a better sound than stock, both DDs produce sound at least up to 20kHz and everyone would be happier with slight treble recession than something unusable (which ZS6 appears to be).


I'm okay waiting for more impressions.. I hear things like the other guys who use foam.


----------



## Shadowsora

Seems like I completely wasted some money then.
My ZS6 have been shipped and I am reaaaaally treble sensitive(Though not even one KZ iem has been sibilant to me).

Oh well, maybe it will go well with a certain genre or else I am going to equalize the crap out of it.


----------



## briank996

My ZS6 have cleared customs, delivery is scheduled for Wednesday. 

Have 2 sets of ZS5s just in case I lost one, so pretty excited. 

I've owned tons of expensive headphones, but the ZS5s have the best fit for me and sound the best out of all of them.   It's really amazing.


----------



## Wiljen

My ZS6 arrived tonight and I have to say I think mine have a different tuning than has been discussed so far.  They are treble forward but not to the cannon or nuke level that has been mentioned thus far in thread.  Granted this is initial impression from a couple hours listening, but I expected my ears to be bleeding from some of the comments and it just isnt the case.   Mine were off the shelf from Gearbest.  Just for reference - where did the pair Chris measured come from?


----------



## snip3r77

kokakolia said:


> Actually, the perfect KZ for me would be the ZSE. And it's super cheap. I might just get one.



zse/es3/zst or zs3? for balanced/fun and good mids?


----------



## Wiljen

snip3r77 said:


> zse/es3/zst or zs3? for balanced/fun and good mids?



Don't overlook the ED9.  I still think it was probably the most balanced sounding of all the KZs I have tried with the more open nozzles and if you want a bit more v-shaped sound the narrow nozzles and a bit of tape over the vent will give you more than enough bass slam for even our bassheads club.


----------



## Fox2twenty

snip3r77 said:


> zse/es3/zst or zs3? for balanced/fun and good mids?


I only have ES3. The mids are good, but it is more v shaped.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> My ZS6 arrived tonight and I have to say I think mine have a different tuning than has been discussed so far.  They are treble forward but not to the cannon or nuke level that has been mentioned thus far in thread.  Granted this is initial impression from a couple hours listening, but I expected my ears to be bleeding from some of the comments and it just isnt the case.   Mine were off the shelf from Gearbest.  Just for reference - where did the pair Chris measured come from?


Well dang... I was kinda hoping the bad reviews meant relief for my wallet.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 25, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> zse/es3/zst or zs3? for balanced/fun and good mids?


Between these, for one that what to avoid peaky sound on higher frequency, at now it seem to be better chose between ZSE and ZS3. ZSE have more details, are warmer and more fun, but ZS3 have better instrument separation, isolation, are more balanced ( in voice presence ) and the cable, witch is very prone to microphonics on ZSE, could be upgradable. They have different stile of fit, but i find comfort as good on both.
I personally find the need for a mix between the positive aspects of both, and now hoping for the hinted newer version of the ZS3 ( ZS4 ? )

ES3 seem a ZST colored with more bass and lesser highs, but still v-shaped. However, i have see some comments on Gearbest for the ES3 that find the highs too harsh anyway. Tonality and sensitivity over higher harshness could make huge difference on personal opinion.


----------



## kokakolia

Wiljen said:


> Don't overlook the ED9.  I still think it was probably the most balanced sounding of all the KZs I have tried with the more open nozzles and if you want a bit more v-shaped sound the narrow nozzles and a bit of tape over the vent will give you more than enough bass slam for even our bassheads club.



I threw my ED9 in the garbage because they were awful. Treble Bazookas. And the Bass was so overblown. Just picture a hairy hipster with a deep, deep V-neck that extends to the belly button. That was the sound profile. The mids we're in a different country. Everything sounded kinda thin. 

I am sure that if you use the really long filters and mod them like you said, they would be more bearable. But I wouldn't even bother. I didn't even bother. The cheaper ED7 is wayyyyyy better. It's not even close.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> Between these, for one that what to avoid peaky sound on higher frequency, at now it seem to be better chose between ZSE and ZS3. ZSE have more details, are warmer and more fun, but ZS3 have better instrument separation, isolation, are more balanced ( in voice presence ) and the cable, witch is very prone to microphonics on ZSE, could be upgradable. They have different stile of fit, but i find comfort as good on both.
> I personally find the need for a mix between the positive aspects of both, and now hoping for the hinted newer version of the ZS3 ( ZS4 ? )
> 
> ES3 seem a ZST colored with more bass and lesser highs, but still v-shaped. However, i have see some comments on Gearbest for the ES3 that find the highs too harsh anyway. Tonality and sensitivity over higher harshness could make huge difference on personal opinion.


The ES3 doesn't even have as much treble as zs5.


----------



## Wiljen

I'm with you on that one Fox2 - just goes to show that we all have different tastes and preferences.  I'd take the ED9 over the ED7, the ZST over either of them and the ZS5 over the ZST.   The ZS6 hasn't been around long enough to earn a spot on the list yet.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> I'm with you on that one Fox2 - just goes to show that we all have different tastes and preferences.  I'd take the ED9 over the ED7, the ZST over either of them and the ZS5 over the ZST.   The ZS6 hasn't been around long enough to earn a spot on the list yet.


Sounds legit


----------



## kokakolia

I just saw a review for the ZSE and it's bad. Another V-shaped earphone with hot treble. Not to mention that the fit is awkward. Grrr...KZ! The ATE looks good though.


----------



## Fox2twenty

kokakolia said:


> I just saw a review for the ZSE and it's bad. Another V-shaped earphone with hot treble. Not to mention that the fit is awkward. Grrr...KZ! The ATE looks good though.



But what if v shaped is good?


----------



## Saoshyant

Treble knives, eh?  Maybe I'll finally hear treble hot enough I can't stand it.  Should be interesting


----------



## maxxevv (Sep 25, 2017)

That reviewer probably has extremely treble sensitive ears.

The ZSE has good treble but definitely not 'hot' or  'bright'.  Far from it.  Its in fact 'warm' sounding rather than 'bright' overall.   

Either that or he has a defective set.


----------



## LUCILLE667 (Sep 25, 2017)

Dammn. I lost my old zs5, which is almost perfect except for a little harsh highs, which i EQed down to normal anyways. And now theyve changed the drivers for no damn reason with that disastrous treble. No thanks kz. If only they have moved the same configuration from the old zs5 into a metal shell, i would be happy. 
Let's hope my zs5 return to me somehow.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Saoshyant said:


> Treble knives, eh?  Maybe I'll finally hear treble hot enough I can't stand it.  Should be interesting


I like your determination!


----------



## snip3r77

LUCILLE667 said:


> Dammn. I lost my old zs5, which is almost perfect except for a little harsh highs, which i EQed down to normal anyways. And now theyve changed the drivers for no damn reason with that disastrous treble. No thanks kz. If only they have moved the same configuration from the old zs5 into a metal shell, i would be happy.
> Let's hope my zs5 return to me somehow.



Will ZS5v1 go up in price?


----------



## Fox2twenty

snip3r77 said:


> Will ZS5v1 go up in price?


I think not. I think kz will just ship whatever is in stock.


----------



## kokakolia

Fox2twenty said:


> But what if v shaped is good?



Not my preference.


----------



## VinceHill24

I got my ZS6 from one of Taobao authorised store and they're good enough to give the new silver cable for free too. 

Actually besides the treble, i can't really find any fault with the ZS6. For instance, the fit and comfort seems to be much better as i've been wearing it for few hours now and it still feels comfortable in my ears (am using a small sized foam in this regard)

OOTB bass may be a little boomy but that's definitely not the 1st thing that'll come to mind (treble treble treble !!!) Switching to the smaller size foam tips and i have one of the bass i've ever experienced. Bass is tight with pretty good speed and texture and the quantity is just right for me. I believe this is attributed to one of the notable design improvement in ZS6 over ZS5 whereby the segregation of both DD with a soundtube guiding one of the DD down to nozzle part.

Overall presentation is U or V shape with more pronounced bass and definitely treble. However midrange doesn't felt to be too recessed or overall distant. From the bass till the midrange is still pretty linear and kinda perfectly in tuned.
The midrange has good body that especially favouring the lower midrange whereby male vocals sounded full and lush. Upper midrange onwards to lower treble region may suffer from quite notable sibilance and it's definitely a nemesis to those treble sensitive users.

And the real nemesis would still be none other than the treble especially the upper treble region. It makes cymbals sounded splashy and artificial, it makes the overall presentation metallic and harsh to listen to. Fatigue kicks in very early i can't even last 30 minutes with them.

But, but and but ....... KZ probably made all the changes in design in order to facilitate easy modding i guess. 1st, back plate is now removable with screws (now you can do something to the bass with it and even openness of sound or even simply changing 

2nd, if you notice the nozzle part, the metal screen is unlike the previous ZS5 where it'll be PITA to remove and likely causing irreversible damage that requires you to replace the screen. The ZS6 metal screen is very easy to remove and you won't risk damaging the screen too coz it looks more solid. With a tweezer or a needle, you can easily take out the screen and do all your modding needs. 

And that's how i ended up enjoying them for hours, tho still not as satisfying in the treble region but the peak and harshness is gone. All i did was cut a small piece of sponge (like the ones you get from the KZ hardshell case) according to the size of the nozzle and place it just beneath the metal screen. On top of that i uses a piece of fabric material screen to cover on top of the nozzle. 

With the mods i can enjoy it much longer although it somewhat veiled the sound slightly sacrificing a bit of details. Not a satisfactory modding but thank god it is all reversible coz removing all of that is easy so i'm gonna see myself do lots of trial and error till i find the best ones. 

I'll definitely be looking forward to Slater's modding of the ZS6 too when he gets it. Gonna look for some acoustic dampeners for BA driver in the meantime.

JMHO & YMMV. Source: Samsung galaxy note 3, file: 16bit FLAC. May do more extensive listening later on with my other DAP.


----------



## Vidal

@VinceHill24 thanks for your impressions

Sounds like the ZS6 could suit me, I like treble and as long as the bass isn't too much these could be a win.


----------



## HiFiChris

kokakolia said:


> So the ZS6 sucks major butt!?.



No.



kokakolia said:


> Treble nukes!?



Yes.


For a more detailed explanation, please read the spoiler.



Spoiler






kokakolia said:


> So the ZS6 sucks major butt!?.



No.

It has great quality metal housings that feel very premium. And its midrange tuning has improved for a more realistic timbre (while the ZS5 was more hollow sounding than the popular 1More E1001, the ZS6's mids appear more even, a little less hollow and a little less distant than the 1More's). Midrange detail retrieval and bass definition have slightly improved as well (ZS6's soundstage is a bit smaller (narrower) though).



kokakolia said:


> Treble nukes!?



Yes. Cymbals are a sharp, metallic, splashy, undefined mess. They clearly went overboard with the upper highs.
If they could take the lows and mids from the ZS6 and fusion them with the ZS5's highs, a great budget IEM would be born. But well, instead they decided to go overboard with the upper highs.


----------



## HiFiChris

Wiljen said:


> Just for reference - where did the pair Chris measured come from?



GearBest as well (but they sent the wrong colour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111!1!!!111 ).


----------



## HiFiChris (Sep 26, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> Treble knives, eh?  Maybe I'll finally hear treble hot enough I can't stand it.  Should be interesting



Try the Ivery IS-1 Liberty...



You're a brave man if you use the Ivery unmodded.


----------



## snip3r77

HiFiChris said:


> Try the Ivery IS-1 Liberty...
> 
> 
> 
> You're a brave man if you use the Ivery unmodded.



What HW/SW do you use to measure IEM/earbud?


----------



## HiFiChris

snip3r77 said:


> What HW/SW do you use to measure IEM/earbud?



http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/p/about-measurement-graphs.html

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/vibro-labs-veritas.21034/reviews#review-14387

http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2015/10/Vibro-Veritas.html


----------



## manukmanohar (Sep 26, 2017)

LUCILLE667 said:


> Dammn. I lost my old zs5, which is almost perfect except for a little harsh highs, which i EQed down to normal anyways. And now theyve changed the drivers for no damn reason with that disastrous treble. No thanks kz. If only they have moved the same configuration from the old zs5 into a metal shell, i would be happy.
> Let's hope my zs5 return to me somehow.


Can't the newest version of zs5 also be eqed for fixing the treble? How do you identify the version. When I try to put a flashlight on the nozzle, i'm not able to make out whether there are 2 ba driver or 1.


----------



## manukmanohar (Sep 26, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is the issue with the treble, something that can be fixed with eq?  Any suggestions on that front. I have got zs5 ( not sure which version) , which is already sibilant and harsh on some tracks with ear tips that I find to give me great mids plus bass combo. With other ear tips, it truly becomes a basshead earphones and lacks details, mids, but no sibilance as well.

Was honestly thinking of getting a zs6, especially if eq can fix the treble issues


----------



## Sylmar

I hope KZ won't forget that a single DD can still be a valid option in the upper playing field if tuned properly. It's nice to have choice.


----------



## young59 (Sep 26, 2017)

As someone who does own ZS5 v2 they are indeed "shining peaks mountain to the sky too tall ear knife" but I was able to eq it out on my phone with viper4android but since I got a new phone don't want to void warranty by rooting.

I will definitely try to mod the ZS5 in the future to remove the 1 ba or ever both ba once kz releases a non treble canon like iem I really hope the zs3 hybrid comes soon I really love mine but gave it to my brother.


----------



## Comebackboy

There's a ZS5 v2? What is the difference between the v1 and v2? Sorry if its an old question, haven't been checking this thread lately. I currently have a ZS5, how do I tell if its v1 or v2? Also, how does the ZS6 compare to ZS5? Thinking of upgrading lol


----------



## young59

Comebackboy said:


> There's a ZS5 v2? What is the difference between the v1 and v2? Sorry if its an old question, haven't been checking this thread lately. I currently have a ZS5, how do I tell if its v1 or v2? Also, how does the ZS6 compare to ZS5? Thinking of upgrading lol


The v1 has one ba in the nozzle while the v2 has 2 ba in the nozzle you can check by looking into the nozzle with a flashlight if one ring its v1 if 2 ring its v2.


----------



## young59

As for the upgrade you can look into the frequency graph posted a few pages page it has zs6 vs zs5 frequency response.


----------



## Comebackboy

young59 said:


> The v1 has one ba in the nozzle while the v2 has 2 ba in the nozzle you can check by looking into the nozzle with a flashlight if one ring its v1 if 2 ring its v2.


Ahh I see I'll check it out later when I'm home. Then how does the ZS6 compare to the ZS5?


----------



## Comebackboy

young59 said:


> As for the upgrade you can look into the frequency graph posted a few pages page it has zs6 vs zs5 frequency response.


Ah alright thanks!


----------



## Superluc

maxxevv said:


> That reviewer probably has extremely treble sensitive ears.
> 
> The ZSE has good treble but definitely not 'hot' or  'bright'.  Far from it.  Its in fact 'warm' sounding rather than 'bright' overall.


I agree. I can also add that everyday's sensitivity isn't always the same, for the ones that suffer from migraine or/and tinnitus.


VinceHill24 said:


> The ZS6 metal screen is very easy to remove and you won't risk damaging the screen too coz it looks more solid. With a tweezer or a needle, you can easily take out the screen and do all your modding needs.
> 
> And that's how i ended up enjoying them for hours, tho still not as satisfying in the treble region but the peak and harshness is gone. All i did was cut a small piece of sponge (like the ones you get from the KZ hardshell case) according to the size of the nozzle and place it just beneath the metal screen. On top of that i uses a piece of fabric material screen to cover on top of the nozzle.
> 
> ...



Good point, maybe someone can find a good and easy solution, with a better dampening material.


----------



## manukmanohar

young59 said:


> As someone who does own ZS5 v2 they are indeed "shining peaks mountain to the sky too tall ear knife" but I was able to eq it out on my phone with viper4android but since I got a new phone don't want to void warranty by rooting.
> 
> I will definitely try to mod the ZS5 in the future to remove the 1 ba or ever both ba once kz releases a non treble canon like iem I really hope the zs3 hybrid comes soon I really love mine but gave it to my brother.



Can you post the eq settings you were using? I'm having v4a app only. So can try that


----------



## Superluc

From the graph, the EQ seem to need to be lowered between around 8k and 11k


----------



## young59

manukmanohar said:


> Can you post the eq settings you were using? I'm having v4a app only. So can try that


I just used the treble reduce preset you can go further if you want I only got to play with it for just a few days


----------



## kokakolia

About the ZSE, I am gonna assume that the negative review was due to the poor fit. This other reviewer likes the ZSE a lot, and he has a good fit. He says that there's no harshness in the highs and he even likes the ZSE more than the ZS5!

I think I'll just buy a pair. It's so ridiculously cheap.


----------



## Holypal

Now I have to be very careful to use my ZS5 v1. Perhaps can't buy it anymore


----------



## maxxevv

kokakolia said:


> About the ZSE, I am gonna assume that the negative review was due to the poor fit. This other reviewer likes the ZSE a lot, and he has a good fit. He says that there's no harshness in the highs and he even likes the ZSE more than the ZS5!
> 
> I think I'll just buy a pair. It's so ridiculously cheap.




If you listen to a lot energetic pop music as well as solo vocals, you will enjoy them a lot.  I use them mainly for that.


----------



## HiFiChris

manukmanohar said:


> Is the issue with the treble, something that can be fixed with eq?  Any suggestions on that front. I have got zs5 ( not sure which version) , which is already sibilant and harsh on some tracks with ear tips that I find to give me great mids plus bass combo. With other ear tips, it truly becomes a basshead earphones and lacks details, mids, but no sibilance as well.
> 
> Was honestly thinking of getting a zs6, especially if eq can fix the treble issues



The sharpness can be lowered, however you would need an EQ (best a parametric EQ) that allows for great changes (> 10 dB).


----------



## Mellowship

Holypal said:


> Now I have to be very careful to use my ZS5 v1. Perhaps can't buy it anymore


Really glad I got 2 of those v1


----------



## Mellowship

kokakolia said:


> About the ZSE, I am gonna assume that the negative review was due to the poor fit. This other reviewer likes the ZSE a lot, and he has a good fit. He says that there's no harshness in the highs and he even likes the ZSE more than the ZS5!
> 
> I think I'll just buy a pair. It's so ridiculously cheap.



I like them a lot, almost as much as the ZS5 v1. They are cheap indeed, but with a great sound signature, and they scale up really well.


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> About the ZSE, I am gonna assume that the negative review was due to the poor fit. This other reviewer likes the ZSE a lot, and he has a good fit. He says that there's no harshness in the highs and he even likes the ZSE more than the ZS5!
> I think I'll just buy a pair. It's so ridiculously cheap.


I still think that it may be worth for you to try them and the ZS3. When searching for casual review you can find everything and the contrary of that, but i don't think that they may be consider fatiguing, on absolute, and they are both cheap as hell.


HiFiChris said:


> The sharpness can be lowered, however you would need an EQ (best a parametric EQ) that allows for great changes (> 10 dB).


As expectable, and that may be a problem on portable equipment.


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 26, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> About the ZSE, I am gonna assume that the negative review was due to the poor fit. This other reviewer likes the ZSE a lot, and he has a good fit. He says that there's no harshness in the highs and he even likes the ZSE more than the ZS5!
> 
> I think I'll just buy a pair. It's so ridiculously cheap.



I wouldn't pay too much attention to YouTube reviewers, especially the earlier,  negative reviewer you linked to (TechManZ). His main focus appears to be making money from affiliate marketing links, not on delivering accurate, balanced reviews (at this price, I'd just buy them and find out for myself, like you).

(Edited to avoid confusion!)


----------



## kokakolia

eaglesgift said:


> I wouldn't pay much attention to any reviewers like that. Their main focus is on making money from affiliate marketing links, not on delivering accurate, balanced reviews (at this price, I'd just buy them and find out for myself, like you).



Well, it's usually obvious when a review is trying to make money off of an affiliate marketing link. The most disgusting examples are Austin Evans and Alpha M. The reviewer I linked only has 3 videos and is pretty unprofessional. But I thought the review was good. Not overly technical, not very informative, but I got a picture. I would have done the same thing to be honest. 

I couldn't pass the flash sale of $6.50 for the ZSE on gearbest. I feel that these earphones will always be overhyped because of the ridiculously low price.


----------



## snip3r77

Holypal said:


> Now I have to be very careful to use my ZS5 v1. Perhaps can't buy it anymore


I have one on backup


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 26, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Well, it's usually obvious when a review is trying to make money off of an affiliate marketing link. The most disgusting examples are Austin Evans and Alpha M. The reviewer I linked only has 3 videos and is pretty unprofessional. But I thought the review was good. Not overly technical, not very informative, but I got a picture. I would have done the same thing to be honest.
> 
> I couldn't pass the flash sale of $6.50 for the ZSE on gearbest. I feel that these earphones will always be overhyped because of the ridiculously low price.


It's obvious because they have a load of affiliate marketing links in their descriptions! I was referring more to the first, negative, review you posted, with all the Amazon links. I wasn't going to buy the ZSE either, because I thought they were overhyped but I was ordering the ES3 and another pair of ZS5s and for the money, I couldn't resist adding them to the order.


----------



## manukmanohar

HiFiChris said:


> The sharpness can be lowered, however you would need an EQ (best a parametric EQ) that allows for great changes (> 10 dB).



Interesting. My equalizer app in android, Viper4Android, doesn't have PEQ. I think better to not buy KZ Z6 then. For KZ Z5, I'll try changing tips, and minor eq mods.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

@eaglesgift  ı know the guy in video. He is not related anything nor affiliate. He has good comments on another site.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Gearbest deal on ZS5 for the next 21 hours..

https://gearbest.app.link/RZlruUCbLG


----------



## Ders Olmaz

Fox2twenty said:


> Gearbest deal on ZS5 for the next 21 hours..
> 
> https://gearbest.app.link/RZlruUCbLG


people said mic is useless on zs5. Micless is cheaper and if i choose i go with micless. I ha ve question is hifiman re400 it zs5 you prefer?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Ders Olmaz said:


> people said mic is useless on zs5. Micless is cheaper and if i choose i go with micless. I ha ve question is hifiman re400 it zs5 you prefer?


I don't have any HiFiman products. The ZS5 is v shape with decent /good Soundstage.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> I don't have any HiFiman products. The ZS5 is v shape with decent /good Soundstage.


I should add, I like using the mic button for pause and play.


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 26, 2017)

Ders Olmaz said:


> @eaglesgift  ı know the guy in video. He is not related anything nor affiliate. He has good comments on another site.


If you mean TechManZ, he has no less than 8 affiliate marketing links in his description.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

eaglesgift said:


> If you mean TechManZ, he has no less than 8 affiliate marketing links in his description.


no i mean the dr. ,the guy with comic hat


----------



## tworule

Fox2twenty said:


> Gearbest deal on ZS5 for the next 21 hours..
> 
> https://gearbest.app.link/RZlruUCbLG


Is this v1?


----------



## Fox2twenty

tworule said:


> Is this v1?


Not for sure, but it is the store I used to get my v1


----------



## eaglesgift

Ders Olmaz said:


> no i mean the dr. ,the guy with comic hat


Oh right. Yeah, sorry, my post was a bit confusing. When I replied to that post by kokakolia, I was really talking about the first video he linked to, not the one with your friend in. Sorry about that.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Not for sure, but it is the store I used to get my v1


I was asked in a PM about where I got my v1- this was the link and I just realized it was on sale, no guarantee though. 

https://gearbest.app.link/RZlruUCbLG


----------



## 1clearhead

kokakolia said:


> Actually, the perfect KZ for me would be the ZSE. And it's super cheap. I might just get one.


Yup! ...must try them with the gray starline tips. BIG improvement; more accurate, coherent and vividly clearer than the black starline tips that it comes with. So, if you have some gray starline tips from KZ laying around or you can order a separate order, it is definitely worth it.


----------



## tworule

Fox2twenty said:


> I was asked in a PM about where I got my v1- this was the link and I just realized it was on sale, no guarantee though.
> 
> https://gearbest.app.link/RZlruUCbLG


the blue one?


----------



## Fox2twenty

tworule said:


> the blue one?


Yes. I purchased blue with Mic and from what I can tell there is only one BA in the nozzle.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Hey everyone, the Loki Mini eq just came out. Now you can fix the treble.


----------



## DeriJuts

Does KZ have a website?


----------



## Fox2twenty

DeriJuts said:


> Does KZ have a website?


Idk, I use the Gearbest mobile app for all my KZ needs.


----------



## -sandro-

kokakolia said:


> About the ZSE, I am gonna assume that the negative review was due to the poor fit. This other reviewer likes the ZSE a lot, and he has a good fit. He says that there's no harshness in the highs and he even likes the ZSE more than the ZS5!
> 
> I think I'll just buy a pair. It's so ridiculously cheap.




just curious does the ZSE resemble the ATR in any way?


----------



## DeriJuts (Sep 26, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> Idk, I use the Gearbest mobile app for all my KZ needs.



Thanks. I browse through that website as well as AliEx. But what I really want to look into is their company info, profile, history etc.


----------



## Superluc

Fox2twenty said:


> Hey everyone, the Loki Mini eq just came out. Now you can fix the treble.


At home...


DeriJuts said:


> Does KZ have a website?


No, but on aliexpress there is an official store


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> At home...
> 
> No, but on aliexpress there is an official store


I just meant instead of throwing them away.


----------



## DeriJuts (Sep 26, 2017)

Yeah. I guess it is just that. A store. I am really curious about this company. I have read somewhere that the name KZ are the first letters of the founders’ names; and that one of them (could be both) used to be an engineer at audio technica.


----------



## TimeSnow

So my ATEs showed up... Except... They shipped ED12s....

So... Not sure if there's any point in keeping them.


----------



## Fox2twenty

TimeSnow said:


> So my ATEs showed up... Except... They shipped ED12s....
> 
> So... Not sure if there's any point in keeping them.


Lol nice


----------



## Slater

TimeSnow said:


> So my ATEs showed up... Except... They shipped ED12s....
> 
> So... Not sure if there's any point in keeping them.



Ewww, ED12.


----------



## Superluc

DeriJuts said:


> Yeah. I guess it is just that. A store. I am really curious about this company. I have read somewhere that the name KZ are the first letters of the founders’ names; and that one of them (could be both) used to be an engineer at audio technica.


With my searching skill , i have found this: 
https://kzearphone.1688.com/

Before there was a kzearphone.com site, as tell by the user guide of my ZS3.

Don't ask me for translation


----------



## Superluc

From gearbest:


> Shenzhen Yuan Ze Electronics Co. Ltd., 2014, the registered capital of 1 million, 30 employees, e-commerce team professional development: mainly for wholesale B2B, company culture: the company to "focus on the headset, hard service" as the core value, all to customer demand as the center, hope that through professional standards and unremitting efforts, reshaping the enterprise network image, provide service guidance for the enterprise product promotion of cultural development; Product development and sales of the original Shenzhen Yuan Ze Electronics Co., the company focused on the field of electro acoustic, dedicated to domestic and foreign users of various levels of professional excellence and cost-effective products. The company currently has more than the industry's top acoustic engineers, as well as the complete supply chain advantages, can provide customers with the appearance of the design and internal structure design and complete acoustic rectification program. A sound quality performance and magic sound (Monster)'s high-end headphones sound quality products, we need only a dozen yuan of the cost of the product can be made. And the left and right ear plus or minus tolerance control in 2DB (the standard tolerance of the international headset is positive and negative 3DB) quality is stable and reliable. We are very familiar with the current international big name headphone audio tuning direction and technical specifications, so we can also make and some international big name some of the high-end product 1:1 sound quality. But the absolute advantage of the cost price, I believe that every customer will like. Our company to the advantage of product technology as the cornerstone of the industry into the industry, the production of a number of manufacturers refused to manufacture some low-end products. We can use the amount to control costs, but can not be used to reduce the cost of quality, which is the basis of our foothold. The company now has a number of long-term cooperation of OEM and ODM customers, product lines are set for the high-end market, customer product sales prospects are clear. The company currently owns two brands, KZ and G.K, in the Chinese market quite well received by users.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> From gearbest:


Sounds good to me


----------



## mrmoto050 (Sep 26, 2017)

DeriJuts said:


> Yeah. I guess it is just that. A store. I am really curious about this company. I have read somewhere that the name KZ are the first letters of the founders’ names; and that one of them (could be both) used to be an engineer at audio technica.


This is a copy of a section from a review for the ATE on Wired.com "KZ, the brand name under which the Guangdong-based Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics Co. operates, was founded in 2008, making it a legacy brand by Chi-Fi standards. The founders are Keith Yue, a former Audio-Technica engineer, and Zen Li, a Western-trained classical musician. (The name KZ isn’t just a nod to the founders’ initials, but is also short for “Knowledge Zenith.”) The company offers an impressive range of low-priced earphones that crib the form-factor from many moderately priced earphones offered by the mainstream brands. The KZ-ATE, for instance, is a dead ringer for the $55 Audio-Technica ATH-IM50 in-ear monitor" 
here is a link for the review
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/review-kz-ate-hi-fi-earphones/


----------



## groucho69

DeriJuts said:


> Yeah. I guess it is just that. A store. I am really curious about this company. I have read somewhere that the name KZ are the first letters of the founders’ names; and that one of them (could be both) used to be an engineer at audio technica.



https://www.wired.com/2017/01/review-kz-ate-hi-fi-earphones/

KZ, the brand name under which the Guangdong-based Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics Co. operates, was founded in 2008, making it a legacy brand by Chi-Fi standards. The founders are Keith Yue, a former Audio-Technica engineer, and Zen Li, a Western-trained classical musician. (The name KZ isn’t just a nod to the founders’ initials, but is also short for “Knowledge Zenith.”)


----------



## Fox2twenty

mrmoto050 said:


> This is a copy of a section from a review for the ATE on Wired.com "KZ, the brand name under which the Guangdong-based Shenzhen Yuanze Electronics Co. operates, was founded in 2008, making it a legacy brand by Chi-Fi standards. The founders are Keith Yue, a former Audio-Technica engineer, and Zen Li, a Western-trained classical musician. (The name KZ isn’t just a nod to the founders’ initials, but is also short for “Knowledge Zenith.”) The company offers an impressive range of low-priced earphones that crib the form-factor from many moderately priced earphones offered by the mainstream brands. The KZ-ATE, for instance, is a dead ringer for the $55 Audio-Technica ATH-IM50 in-ear monitor"
> here is a link for the review
> https://www.wired.com/2017/01/review-kz-ate-hi-fi-earphones/


Woah, dead ringer huh?


----------



## Wiljen

Got some additional listening to the zs6 in today - treble is hot for sure.  I found that I could drop the 10K band on the EQ by 8db and reign it in for the most part.  It may be that this is the same tuning as Chris' and just takes a little while to get really annoying to my ear.


----------



## Superluc

I have searching more for curiosity, and it seem that the G.K brand was just used before by KZ itself. I was wondering if that may be something else.https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/6249835.jpg


----------



## eaglesgift

TimeSnow said:


> So my ATEs showed up... Except... They shipped ED12s....
> 
> So... Not sure if there's any point in keeping them.


Where did you order them from, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## TimeSnow

eaglesgift said:


> Where did you order them from, if you don't mind me asking?


Amazon. I'll check the seller in a bit. But through Amazon.


----------



## ephrank

So, ordered Blue ZS5 from GB. Hope their express post is worth the $6.

The ZS3 silver plated cables also fit the ZS5 right?


----------



## Superluc (Sep 26, 2017)

ephrank said:


> The ZS3 silver plated cables also fit the ZS5 right?


Right. ZS3-5-6 and maybe 4, when it comes, if the info of some cable's seller are true.


----------



## groucho69

I know it is heresy but I'm thinking of taking the cash I saved canceling my ZS6 order and using it on 11-11 for
svara red or pioneer SE-CH9T.


----------



## kokakolia

1clearhead said:


> Yup! ...must try them with the gray starline tips. BIG improvement; more accurate, coherent and vividly clearer than the black starline tips that it comes with. So, if you have some gray starline tips from KZ laying around or you can order a separate order, it is definitely worth it.



I think I watched a video somewhere stating that the default KZ tips that come with the ZS5 (and the ZSE no doubt) suck and that it's worth upgrading them. What sort of "high quality tips that literally cost more than the earphones" would you recommend. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I just can't get over the measly price of $6.50 on Gearbest. 

Yeah, so what tips would you recommend?


----------



## Fox2twenty

kokakolia said:


> I think I watched a video somewhere stating that the default KZ tips that come with the ZS5 (and the ZSE no doubt) suck and that it's worth upgrading them. What sort of "high quality tips that literally cost more than the earphones" would you recommend. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I just can't get over the measly price of $6.50 on Gearbest.
> 
> Yeah, so what tips would you recommend?


I always recommend foam for Es3 and ZS5.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> I always recommend foam for Es3 and ZS5.


Currently using comply, with New Bees on order from Gearbest.


----------



## Wiljen

did a little experiment tonight with the Zs6.  Traded the tips for more open spiral dots and introduced a small piece of felt behind the screens in the nozzle.  (This operation by the way is quite tedious).   I used a leather punch to cut the correct diameter circles out of an old pair of the liners from the superlux 668b i had kicking around.   This has calmed that spike down by about 6db as I can now put 1/2 the EQ I was using earlier and get the same signature.   This is by no means the be all but it does suggest that there is hope for the modding the Zs6.  It may be as simple as changing the damping a bit.  Next up is to put a small piece of felt between the BA and the case and see if that helps.   Anybody else toying with what can be done with the Zs6 yet?


----------



## eaglesgift

Wiljen said:


> did a little experiment tonight with the Zs6.  Traded the tips for more open spiral dots and introduced a small piece of felt behind the screens in the nozzle.  (This operation by the way is quite tedious).   I used a leather punch to cut the correct diameter circles out of an old pair of the liners from the superlux 668b i had kicking around.   This has calmed that spike down by about 6db as I can now put 1/2 the EQ I was using earlier and get the same signature.   This is by no means the be all but it does suggest that there is hope for the modding the Zs6.  It may be as simple as changing the damping a bit.  Next up is to put a small piece of felt between the BA and the case and see if that helps.   Anybody else toying with what can be done with the Zs6 yet?


I'm toying with not buying it at all!


----------



## F4yze

Wiljen said:


> did a little experiment tonight with the Zs6.  Traded the tips for more open spiral dots and introduced a small piece of felt behind the screens in the nozzle.  (This operation by the way is quite tedious).   I used a leather punch to cut the correct diameter circles out of an old pair of the liners from the superlux 668b i had kicking around.   This has calmed that spike down by about 6db as I can now put 1/2 the EQ I was using earlier and get the same signature.   This is by no means the be all but it does suggest that there is hope for the modding the Zs6.  It may be as simple as changing the damping a bit.  Next up is to put a small piece of felt between the BA and the case and see if that helps.   Anybody else toying with what can be done with the Zs6 yet?



Have you tried stuffing the nozzles of the BA itself with foam, as per one of the users here did with his ZST? I made the mistake of buying into the hype because I wanted to buy the zs5, but then the zs6 came out and I thought it would sound the same. I kept updated with this thread due to the lack of reviews of the zs6, and plan to do that mod when I get my hands on mine. Sadly it's already on the way so I can't cancel it.


----------



## VinceHill24

F4yze said:


> Have you tried stuffing the nozzles of the BA itself with foam, as per one of the users here did with his ZST? I made the mistake of buying into the hype because I wanted to buy the zs5, but then the zs6 came out and I thought it would sound the same. I kept updated with this thread due to the lack of reviews of the zs6, and plan to do that mod when I get my hands on mine. Sadly it's already on the way so I can't cancel it.



Well that's the Slater's ZST mod i supposed. Just did that in fact and i have to say this is the best mod i've came across by far. It brings out the strong point of the ZS6. The bass and the midrange. I gave my friend who've been listening to ZS5 (V1) for a brief listen and immediately he was wowed with very positive remark on its bass and midrange too. Seriously... treble aside, everything else of ZS6 is so good. Of course by doing this mod it does sacrifice a bit of the treble details and it makes me think that the 2 BA in the nozzle is redundant too. 

The best damn thing is, the modification is completely reversible and it's simple enough to be completed within 5 minutes. Even kids can do it lol. All thanks to the better nozzle screen that KZ decided to use this time.


----------



## F4yze (Sep 27, 2017)

VinceHill24 said:


> Well that's the Slater's ZST mod i supposed. Just did that in fact and i have to say this is the best mod i've came across by far. It brings out the strong point of the ZS6. The bass and the midrange. I gave my friend who've been listening to ZS5 (V1) for a brief listen and immediately he was wowed with very positive remark on its bass and midrange too. Seriously... treble aside, everything else of ZS6 is so good. Of course by doing this mod it does sacrifice a bit of the treble details and it makes me think that the 2 BA in the nozzle is redundant too.
> 
> The best damn thing is, the modification is completely reversible and it's simple enough to be completed within 5 minutes. Even kids can do it lol. All thanks to the better nozzle screen that KZ decided to use this time.



That's really good to hear! So all you did was stuff the nozzles of all 4 BA drivers with foam? Nothing else? This is giving me hope


----------



## Superluc

VinceHill24 said:


> Well that's the Slater's ZST mod i supposed. Just did that in fact and i have to say this is the best mod i've came across by far. It brings out the strong point of the ZS6. The bass and the midrange. I gave my friend who've been listening to ZS5 (V1) for a brief listen and immediately he was wowed with very positive remark on its bass and midrange too. Seriously... treble aside, everything else of ZS6 is so good. Of course by doing this mod it does sacrifice a bit of the treble details and it makes me think that the 2 BA in the nozzle is redundant too.
> The best damn thing is, the modification is completely reversible and it's simple enough to be completed within 5 minutes. Even kids can do it lol. All thanks to the better nozzle screen that KZ decided to use this time.


I'm starting to convince myself... 

So all it's needed is some felt from a KZ box and a bit of patience ?


----------



## randomnin

Anyone has a frequency response graph for the KZ ES3?


----------



## Wiljen

F4yze said:


> Have you tried stuffing the nozzles of the BA itself with foam, as per one of the users here did with his ZST? I made the mistake of buying into the hype because I wanted to buy the zs5, but then the zs6 came out and I thought it would sound the same. I kept updated with this thread due to the lack of reviews of the zs6, and plan to do that mod when I get my hands on mine. Sadly it's already on the way so I can't cancel it.



Not yet, but I think that is on its way tonight when I get time.   I still think we have hope for the Zs6.


----------



## Tmanning47

randomnin said:


> Anyone has a frequency response graph for the KZ ES3?


Also interested to see this if possible.


----------



## Slater (Sep 27, 2017)

F4yze said:


> Have you tried stuffing the nozzles of the BA itself with foam, as per one of the users here did with his ZST? I made the mistake of buying into the hype because I wanted to buy the zs5, but then the zs6 came out and I thought it would sound the same. I kept updated with this thread due to the lack of reviews of the zs6, and plan to do that mod when I get my hands on mine. Sadly it's already on the way so I can't cancel it.





VinceHill24 said:


> Well that's the Slater's ZST mod i supposed. Just did that in fact and i have to say this is the best mod i've came across by far. It brings out the strong point of the ZS6. The bass and the midrange. I gave my friend who've been listening to ZS5 (V1) for a brief listen and immediately he was wowed with very positive remark on its bass and midrange too. Seriously... treble aside, everything else of ZS6 is so good. Of course by doing this mod it does sacrifice a bit of the treble details and it makes me think that the 2 BA in the nozzle is redundant too.
> 
> The best damn thing is, the modification is completely reversible and it's simple enough to be completed within 5 minutes. Even kids can do it lol. All thanks to the better nozzle screen that KZ decided to use this time.



Nice job VinceHill24! Glad to hear that method worked for the ZS6. It worked so well on my ZST, that was going to be my plan for my ZS6 as soon as it arrives.

Putting foam into the main nozzle will affect the dynamic drivers too (which is unwanted). Since the huge treble spike is almost certainly eminating from the BA drivers, dampening the BA drivers (only) with foam makes the most logical sense. That way you get the full range from the 2xDD but knock down the treble spike of the 2xBA - the best of both worlds!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## VinceHill24

Slater said:


> Nice job VinceHill24! Glad to hear that method worked for the ZS6. It worked so well on my ZST, that was going to be my plan for my ZS6 as soon as it arrives.
> 
> Putting foam into the main nozzle will affect the dynamic drivers too (which is unwanted). Since the huge treble spike is almost certainly eminating from the BA drivers, dampening the BA drivers (only) with foam makes the most logical sense. That way you get the full range from the 2xDD but knock down the treble spike of the 2xBA - the best of both worlds!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


Exactly. I 1st tried the stuffing the foam into main nozzle. While the treble peak seems to go away with that mod, sound is really lacking and has an overall veiled qualities so i figured it must've affected the dynamic driver. Then after i did your mod, it all gets better as i don't get that veiled sound anymore although there's slightly lesser treble details too. At least it's now much more enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## vector84

Random ZS6 thought: maybe try only damp one of the BAs heavily?

Was playing with damping setups on a set of ZS5s and damping the BA cuts out everything completely at around 4kHz, notch filter style, and as you would expect from a really strong notch filter, it sounds pretty weird like that.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Random ZS6 thought: maybe try only damp one of the BAs heavily?
> 
> Was playing with damping setups on a set of ZS5s and damping the BA cuts out everything completely at around 4kHz, notch filter style, and as you would expect from a really strong notch filter, it sounds pretty weird like that.



Yeah, once my ZS6 arrives I'll play with all of the different combinations and post up the results.

I have a feeling both need dampening though, because the ZST only has (1) BA and it was razor sharp until it was dampened.

You can also play around with the amount of form used - a slightly larger piece will compress more once it's all stuffed into the nozzle, creating more dampening because it's effectively denser. Likewise, a slightly smaller piece of foam will compress less, effectively being less dense. You can also play with different size pieces dampening each individual BA driver (ie to allow more dampening from BA #1 and less dampening from BA #2).

The key to the mod is making sure the pieces are all exactly the same size between the L and R side (if that makes sense). That way, there won't be a mismatch between the sides.

And when I say larger and smaller pieces, it's hard to imagine how small ALL of these pieces are until you see them in person. They are like 1/3 the size of a grain of rice haha


----------



## mrmoto050

kokakolia said:


> I think I watched a video somewhere stating that the default KZ tips that come with the ZS5 (and the ZSE no doubt) suck and that it's worth upgrading them. What sort of "high quality tips that literally cost more than the earphones" would you recommend. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I just can't get over the measly price of $6.50 on Gearbest.
> 
> Yeah, so what tips would you recommend?


I put Comply T200's on mine great fit.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Yeah, once my ZS6 arrives I'll play with all of the different combinations and post up the results.
> 
> I have a feeling both need dampening though, because the ZST only has (1) BA and it was razor sharp until it was dampened.
> 
> ...


especially as i'm somewhat mechanically challenged, i find it a little disappointing that you need to mod a $30-40 flagship in order to get it to sound right--you'd think kz would have gotten it right before rolling it out.


----------



## Sylmar

loomisjohnson said:


> especially as i'm somewhat mechanically challenged, i find it a little disappointing that you need to mod a $30-40 flagship in order to get it to sound right--you'd think kz would have gotten it right before rolling it out.


I agree, especially when in this pricerange there are a lot of good alternatives.


----------



## Podster

Wiljen said:


> Got some additional listening to the zs6 in today - treble is hot for sure.  I found that I could drop the 10K band on the EQ by 8db and reign it in for the most part.  It may be that this is the same tuning as Chris' and just takes a little while to get really annoying to my ear.



Glad to see these are finally reaching buyers, it is also a good thing I like treble 90% of the time my solution to Hot Treble is lower overall volume but then again that limits your iem to certain listening environments which could induce external noises but I'm OK with that and the fact that I'm not much of a modder however I've been called many other things in my lifetime
LOL
@Slater loved the Ewe on the ED12's as my 14 year old absolutely loves his ED one two's as he refers to them but I'm still working on him since his world is all about Dat Bass and he's not really learned yet that the music lives in the midrange. I know KZ are really starting to come into their own as a more well known ChiFi iem maker but I'm pulling away to a higher grade and more expensive iems. Will always have my faves (ZST, ZS5, ZN1 Mini, ZS3 and the always notable ED9 which is what got me started in budget ChiFi and KZ) but the rest of my KZ collection is being gifted to mostly my boys friends these days and who knows I may infect a few others to this crazy hobby and disease


----------



## Superluc

Slater said:


> Yeah, once my ZS6 arrives I'll play with all of the different combinations and post up the results


The peaks are two, one between 8k and 12k, but other more on the "airy" band of frequency, way less problematic. If the BA aren't redundant, but their job is split between those peaks, maybe only one BA need to be damped. It's something that need testing.


----------



## kokakolia

mrmoto050 said:


> I put Comply T200's on mine great fit.



I ended up getting the New Bee ear tip package on Gearbest. It was only $4. It comes in a clear case with silicones and foam tips. And it's still cheaper than a pair of ZSEs. 

I don't think you can ever get a better deal than that!

I'll just have to wait patiently for months now


----------



## Superluc

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZiIp0JlDiP/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio



> You're definitely gonna have some love hate relationship with it.
> Probably a well polished and the most refined piece of IEM KZ has ever made yet with a critical flaw in its treble region that turns it into treble cannon.
> Trebleheads, go on... treble sensitives, hold on. Probably wise waiting for their upcoming model to see what's it gonna be.



WOW, they have admit it, even if it may compromise the selling


----------



## vector84

Slater said:


> Yeah, once my ZS6 arrives I'll play with all of the different combinations and post up the results.
> 
> I have a feeling both need dampening though, because the ZST only has (1) BA and it was razor sharp until it was dampened.
> 
> ...


Yeah, when I said heavily damp, I was thinking more like I managed to cram a piece of foam nearly the size of a grain of short grain rice in there 


Too bad those fabric filters aren't more readily available in other markets... they seem to get a lot of attention on the Chinese forums in relation to the ZS6 and ZST.

I did notice the screens KZ uses for the ZS6 are only on ali in 3.7, 4, and 5mm sizes... so maybe those 5mm ones will fit properly after all?


----------



## Podster

Superluc said:


> The peaks are two, one between 8k and 12k, but other more on the "airy" band of frequency, way less problematic. If the BA aren't redundant, but their job is split between those peaks, maybe only one BA need to be damped. It's something that need testing.



True and one might be able to just Mod/Damp one BA then EQ the other Rise, guess I need to post a pic for my one and only Mod I can remember but used two or three times. Took one of my 14 year olds old Morph costumes (I have enough damping material to last 20 lifetimes) and cut a tiny square and just draped it over the nozzle before placing the tip over that material however it affects the entire spectrum at nozzle exit it has been perfect for a few pair for me but remember my usual solution to hot treble is just lower volumes. As in all portable audio YMMV


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> especially as i'm somewhat mechanically challenged, i find it a little disappointing that you need to mod a $30-40 flagship in order to get it to sound right--you'd think kz would have gotten it right before rolling it out.



Agreed. All they would had to do was include 1 pair of foam tips in addition to the starlines already in there. That way, all of the tip rolling options are covered.


----------



## Slater (Sep 27, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Yeah, when I said heavily damp, I was thinking more like I managed to cram a piece of foam nearly the size of a grain of short grain rice in there
> 
> 
> Too bad those fabric filters aren't more readily available in other markets... they seem to get a lot of attention on the Chinese forums in relation to the ZS6 and ZST.
> ...



I always save nylon screens when I switch them (assuming they are in good shape). So for example, the red nylon screen on the ZS3. That way, I can reuse them on something else if need be.

As far as the size, some seller have other sizes (such as 4.3 and 4.7mm). But the 3 you listed are the most common sizes.


----------



## F4yze

vector84 said:


> Yeah, when I said heavily damp, I was thinking more like I managed to cram a piece of foam nearly the size of a grain of short grain rice in there
> 
> Too bad those fabric filters aren't more readily available in other markets... they seem to get a lot of attention on the Chinese forums in relation to the ZS6 and ZST.
> 
> I did notice the screens KZ uses for the ZS6 are only on ali in 3.7, 4, and 5mm sizes... so maybe those 5mm ones will fit properly after all?



By filters, do you mean acoustic dampers?


----------



## vector84 (Sep 27, 2017)

Aren't the ZS3 screens smaller though?  I though I recalled like 4mm? ZSE filter is around that size too.

The ZS5 fits 4.7 - some just got here, and 4.7 is a perfect fit, but only works on ones that don't have BAs positioned above the screen lip (obviously).
In stock form, I think it's fitted with 5mm screens that have been edge rolled to get a rise.

No idea about the ZS6 though


----------



## vector84

F4yze said:


> By filters, do you mean acoustic dampers?


Not real BA dampers (though if you could find the right size, those would be interesting too) but like Slater mentioned, our exposure internationally is mostly with the red nylon ones.

In Chinese markets, it sounds like they have numerous options available - I linked some on ali a few pages back that have like 5 different options (and none of them are the red nylon variants).
"silk" seems to be the Google translate of the most popular one? But I have no idea which one that actually is.


----------



## VinceHill24

This is the acoustic dampers i'm looking at currently. But i have no idea whether it will fit or not the nozzle.

Balanced Armature Damping Plugs Damper filter Knowles Electronics Acoustic  (2 pcs in 1 pack)
http://s.aliexpress.com/ruyInyum 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## vector84

Would the 2.08mm size fit the KZ BAs?

I thought that size was for putting into sound tubes?


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Aren't the ZS3 screens smaller though?  I though I recalled like 4mm? ZSE filter is around that size too.
> 
> The ZS5 fits 4.7 - some just got here, and 4.7 is a perfect fit, but only works on ones that don't have BAs positioned above the screen lip (obviously).
> In stock form, I think it's fitted with 5mm screens that have been edge rolled to get a rise.
> ...



Yeah, ZS3 is small (4mm I think). I was just saying when I remove a nylon screen to replace with stainless, I save the nylon assuming it's in good shape. Then I can reuse it on some other IEM (that it fits). So like tip rolling, there is screen rolling.


----------



## Slater

VinceHill24 said:


> This is the acoustic dampers i'm looking at currently. But i have no idea whether it will fit or not the nozzle.
> 
> Balanced Armature Damping Plugs Damper filter Knowles Electronics Acoustic  (2 pcs in 1 pack)
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ruyInyum
> (from AliExpress Android)



Those must be used in combination with a tube. There's no way you're fitting (2) of those inside of the tiny 5mm ZS6 nozzle.

You're only real option is the foam mod, which will achieve the same basic thing.

Packing the foam denser or looser, as well as trying different types of foam will act like one of those BA dampers. The purpose-built BA dampers will have much more precision though, but as long as you cut the foam pieces consistently, you can get surprisingly accurate tuning with the foam too.


----------



## peskypesky (Sep 27, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> I was asked in a PM about where I got my v1- this was the link and I just realized it was on sale, no guarantee though.
> 
> https://gearbest.app.link/RZlruUCbLG


Thanks. just ordered a blue pair to supplement my gray ones.

This time, I paid for "priority line shipping" (7-12 days) as last time it took a month to get my order.

I had planned on ordering some black ZS6's, but I am treble-sensitive....so they wouldn't work for me.


----------



## VinceHill24

Slater said:


> Those must be used in combination with a tube. There's no way you're fitting (2) of those inside of the tiny 5mm ZS6 nozzle.
> 
> You're only real option is the foam mod, which will achieve the same basic thing.
> 
> Packing the foam denser or looser, as well as trying different types of foam will act like one of those BA dampers. The purpose-built BA dampers will have much more precision though, but as long as you cut the foam pieces consistently, you can get surprisingly accurate tuning with the foam too.


Lol thank god i didn't buy it. I thought it was supposed to be for the nozzle of BA. If this fits it'll be hell lot easier. Inserting those foams into the BA nozzle is easy job but cutting those into the tiny pieces of same dimension is really PITA work. They keep falling off from my work desk and disappeared too.


----------



## peskypesky (Sep 27, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> I threw my ED9 in the garbage because they were awful. Treble Bazookas. And the Bass was so overblown.



Strange. I love my ED9s. Listening with them right now.  
I also love my ZS5s. Need to do an A/B comparison at some point.





Wiljen said:


> Don't overlook the ED9.  I still think it was probably the most balanced sounding of all the KZs I have tried with the more open nozzles and if you want a bit more v-shaped sound the narrow nozzles and a bit of tape over the vent will give you more than enough bass slam for even our bassheads club.



Love my ED9s as they are.,,,but I will have to try that tape mod!

[edit] i just put some clear packing tape over the vents and am listening to some Baroness and I am being pummeled beautifully.


----------



## 1clearhead

kokakolia said:


> I think I watched a video somewhere stating that the default KZ tips that come with the ZS5 (and the ZSE no doubt) suck and that it's worth upgrading them. What sort of "high quality tips that literally cost more than the earphones" would you recommend. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I just can't get over the measly price of $6.50 on Gearbest.
> 
> Yeah, so what tips would you recommend?


I've tried many different kinds of tips, but the gray starline silicone ear tips from KZ works best for me. I personally think they should have made these the default tips instead of the black ones.


----------



## 1clearhead

loomisjohnson said:


> especially as i'm somewhat mechanically challenged, i find it a little disappointing that you need to mod a $30-40 flagship in order to get it to sound right--you'd think kz would have gotten it right before rolling it out.


+1 Yup! ...Totally agree.


----------



## Makahl

Well, you can try to add tubes and a damper like that:






But, certainly, add layers of filters at the nozzle like the RE400 filters will be more effective and easier to accomplish a good result, hehe. I've never seen a dual BA using in this way btw... Those drivers apparently are tweeters so IMO they should've been placed a tad more distance from the auditive canal like JH Audio made with their Freqphase strategy to achieve a better coherency. I'm happy because my plans with ZS6 is just using its housing anyway.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 27, 2017)

Superluc said:


> I'm starting to convince myself...
> 
> So all it's needed is some felt from a KZ box and a bit of patience ?


I have made my decision...


----------



## mrmoto050 (Sep 27, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Would the 2.08mm size fit the KZ BAs?
> 
> I thought that size was for putting into sound tubes?


Here is some info on Damping from Knowles
http://www.knowles.com/eng/Products/Accessories/Dampers/Technical-bulletins
http://www.knowles.com/eng/Products/Accessories/Dampers


----------



## vector84 (Sep 27, 2017)

mrmoto050 said:


> Here is some info on Damping from Knowles
> http://www.knowles.com/eng/Products/Accessories/Dampers/Technical-bulletins
> http://www.knowles.com/eng/Products/Accessories/Dampers


Neat, but how would you go about fitting a 8mm long acoustic tube on the KZ BAs to use such dampers?
(and is that 79mm total recommended length in there? what? how do you even... what?)

Color me confused.

I was thinking the 1.12 and 1.37 seem like they might be closer to a useful fit, but using them in such a way is obviously not the intended purpose of such dampers, so results... might be somewhat interesting.


----------



## Wiljen

pretty sure 2.08mm is too large.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Random ZS6 thought: maybe try only damp one of the BAs heavily?
> 
> Was playing with damping setups on a set of ZS5s and damping the BA cuts out everything completely at around 4kHz, notch filter style, and as you would expect from a really strong notch filter, it sounds pretty weird like that.


If possible, dampening one driver sounds like a good idea.


----------



## Fox2twenty

peskypesky said:


> Thanks. just ordered a blue pair to supplement my gray ones.
> 
> This time, I paid for "priority line shipping" (7-12 days) as last time it took a month to get my order.
> 
> I had planned on ordering some black ZS6's, but I am treble-sensitive....so they wouldn't work for me.


Np, I love the blue ones.


----------



## TJK81

My new ES3 just arrived. Very nice build, good fit (much better than ZST's), a little bit (very little) uncomfortable after a while. Great sounding with my spirat dots (M sized). Not as crisp as my ZS5's (rev.2) but really good overall. Very well spent 10bucks. My second favourite chi-fi's after ZS5's.


----------



## mrmoto050

Yes, it is an interesting read, as for me I wouldn't waste my time. I would just move on to a better sounding IEM as I really can't see value in buying something that I'm going to have to modify out of the box.


----------



## Fox2twenty

TJK81 said:


> My new ES3 just arrived. Very nice build, good fit (much better than ZST's), a little bit (very little) uncomfortable after a while. Great sounding with my spirat dots (M sized). Not as crisp as my ZS5's (rev.2) but really good overall. Very well spent 10bucks. My second favourite chi-fi's after ZS5's.


Awesome review.


----------



## monocats

Guys, in regards to the ZS6... I think we got what we wanted.

Some of the reviewers complained that the 4 driver claim is just a marketing gimmick, with the second BA unable to contribute to the sound in any way.
Calling KZ names for that.

So, KZ decided to live up to their claims and made the headphones into treble nukes. 

But all of the four drivers are doing their work now.

Oh well.


----------



## -sandro-

Survey: ZSE sound signature?


----------



## Fox2twenty

monocats said:


> Guys, in regards to the ZS6... I think we got what we wanted.
> 
> Some of the reviewers complained that the 4 driver claim is just a marketing gimmick, with the second BA unable to contribute to the sound in any way.
> Calling KZ names for that.
> ...


They certainly responded to the critics! Best  theory yet.


----------



## TJK81

Fox2twenty said:


> Awesome review.


That wasn't a review. Just first impression. I'm not good in writing a reviews. I like to write what i hear and feel and see. Nothing more nothing less. But thanks anyway.
BTW: My wife wants them (i mean ES3's)... i said her... come on U get ZST's.


----------



## Fox2twenty

TJK81 said:


> That wasn't a review. Just first impression. I'm not good in writing a reviews. I like to write what i hear and feel and see. Nothing more nothing less. But thanks anyway.
> BTW: My wife wants them (i mean ES3's)... i said her... come on U get ZST's.


I know, I like impressions, it's like a hip pocket review. 

And Cmon man, ES3 are awesome, help out yo' wife!


----------



## Podster

Fox2twenty said:


> They certainly responded to the critics! Best  theory yet.



And you sure can't please them all, thank God so many can retreat to those beautiful ZST's


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> And you sure can't please them all, thank God so many can retreat to those beautiful ZST's


I agree. Except I have ES3 instead of zst.


----------



## Podster

Fox2twenty said:


> I agree. Except I have ES3 instead of zst.



I'd say you lean a wee bit more to the bass side than I Choice is a good thang though I have 7 friends who have already given me $50 so that on 11/11 I can order all of them that S5/ZS5 with SP Cable setup, I'm expecting by Christmas they may doing the same for some of their loved ones Love this hobby, music to my ears and joy in me heart


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> I'd say you lean a wee bit more to the bass side than I Choice is a good thang though I have 7 friends who have already given me $50 so that on 11/11 I can order all of them that S5/ZS5 with SP Cable setup, I'm expecting by Christmas they may doing the same for some of their loved ones Love this hobby, music to my ears and joy in me heart


That's beautiful man. Amen


----------



## Podster

-sandro- said:


> Survey: ZSE sound signature?



@-sandro- , Bumpity bump bump bump LOL Sorry man just messin' wit ya. The ZSE is a nice warm iem, if I could call it my term would be crisp and even. Think the three little bears here, not too bright and not too warm (or bassy) but just about right for all genre's


----------



## Mellowship

-sandro- said:


> Survey: ZSE sound signature?


Fun, but with above average detail and soundstage. And in my opinion, not as vshaped as some people reported. Mids come out bright and crispy.


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> @-sandro- , Bumpity bump bump bump LOL Sorry man just messin' wit ya. The ZSE is a nice warm iem, if I could call it my term would be crisp and even. Think the three little bears here, not too bright and not too warm (or bassy) but just about right for all genre's


Great combo. Do you use s5's eq presets? On mine, with flat eq, they sound tinny, and with jazz eq they are great but with more subbass than I'm used to with other daps.


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> Great combo. Do you use s5's eq presets? On mine, with flat eq, they sound tinny, and with jazz eq they are great but with more subbass than I'm used to with other daps.



Depends on which iem I'm using with them, a lot I can just leave EQ off however with some I either use the Funk or Jazz setting


----------



## -sandro-

Mellowship said:


> Fun, but with above average detail and soundstage. And in my opinion, not as vshaped as some people reported. Mids come out bright and crispy.



I want to try them and I hope mids sound better than the ATR.


----------



## Podster

-sandro- said:


> I want to try them and I hope mids sound better than the ATR.



IMO yes they do plus fit and comfort is miles ahead of all the KZ AT Series Why do I feel like I'm fixing to be shot or at least shot down LOL


----------



## -sandro- (Sep 27, 2017)

Podster said:


> IMO yes they do plus fit and comfort is miles ahead of all the KZ AT Series Why do I feel like I'm fixing to be shot or at least shot down LOL



because you will be 
anyway it's very complicated to choose these ZSes everyone says opposite things for every model  even sound signatures change.
Solution: buy them all


----------



## Podster

-sandro- said:


> because you will be
> anyway it's very complicated to choose these ZSes everyone says opposite things for every model  even sound signatures change.



Right and I own ATE's and ATR, sit in their respective cases until my kids need a pair to thrash since I can't stand the way they fit in my ears. Too bad because neither are a bad iem for the price


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Right and I own ATE's and ATR, sit in their respective cases until my kids need a pair to thrash since I can't stand the way they fit in my ears. Too bad because neither are a bad iem for the price


I had fitting problems too, either with silicone or foam tips. Found a perfect solution which is to use foam tips a size smaller than I'm used to. Maybe it's because of the huge nozzle...


----------



## BrunoC

ZS6 = treble cannon?

It can't be worst than the Seahf AWK-009, right?


----------



## Saoshyant

Supposedly it murders the treble from HD700, which is pretty piercing.


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> I had fitting problems too, either with silicone or foam tips. Found a perfect solution which is to use foam tips a size smaller than I'm used to. Maybe it's because of the huge nozzle...



My issue was nozzle angle and length, brass fitting rubbed me and basically hurt!


----------



## snip3r77 (Sep 27, 2017)

Mellowship said:


> Fun, but with above average detail and soundstage. And in my opinion, not as vshaped as some people reported. Mids come out bright and crispy.


Since zs5 is the best of the kz lot , what is below zs5?
Zs3/zst/es3/zse? 
Or I can skip and wait for zsr / zs6v2?


----------



## Superluc

Better choice is highly subjective, ZS5 included. You need to understand what you are searching about tonality, signature and comfort.


----------



## Tmanning47

Just received my ES3s. Keep in mind I'm coming from over ear headphones like the shp-9500'ss and M1060's and have no prior experience with IEMs as they usually don't fit. They sound pretty decent, definitely a good amount of detail in the highs, plenty if not too much bass for my taste (unless I'm in the mood for it). Soundstage is narrower than what I was hoping but I love soundstage so I would have a concert hall on my ears if I could. There seems to be a lack of mids? Maybe, not sure yet. It could be the fit or the tips. These are just my initial impressions, more testing to come.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Well, you can try to add tubes and a damper like that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately there's not enough room - KZ puts the BAs directly under the mesh screen. In the case of the ZS5, they have even had them *touching* the mesh screen. So you literally can't mount tubes to the BA drivers, much less filters.

The only option is directly dampening with foam like I did with the ZST mod.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Mellowship said:


> Fun, but with above average detail and soundstage. And in my opinion, not as vshaped as some people reported. Mids come out bright and crispy.


Maybe I need one...


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> Just received my ES3s. Keep in mind I'm coming from over ear headphones like the shp-9500'ss and M1060's and have no prior experience with IEMs as they usually don't fit. They sound pretty decent, definitely a good amount of detail in the highs, plenty if not too much bass for my taste (unless I'm in the mood for it). Soundstage is narrower than what I was hoping but I love soundstage so I would have a concert hall on my ears if I could. There seems to be a lack of mids? Maybe, not sure yet. It could be the fit or the tips. These are just my initial impressions, more testing to come.


ZS5 has more soundstage. Rumor is Zs6 has even more.


----------



## vector84

So I did a bit of digging around and the smaller sized Knowles dampers kinda look like they might be useful, if they happen to be the right size:


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> So I did a bit of digging around and the smaller sized Knowles dampers kinda look like they might be useful, if they happen to be the right size:


Looks promising


----------



## Tmanning47

Fox2twenty said:


> ZS5 has more soundstage. Rumor is Zs6 has even more.


These are going to be my main portable headphones now, so I'm not overly concerned about soundstage. If anything, I will still carry my KSC75's.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> These are going to be my main portable headphones now, so I'm not overly concerned about soundstage. If anything, I will still carry my KSC75's.


Wow, that's high praise for Es3. I like em too!


----------



## Tmanning47

Fox2twenty said:


> Wow, that's high praise for Es3. I like em too!


I mean they don't have much competition in the portability department out of what I own. I'm certainly not lugging my M1060s around, and the shp9500s, as well as the KSC75s (highly recommend), are all open back.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> I mean they don't have much competition in the portability department out of what I own. I'm certainly not lugging my M1060s around, and the shp9500s, as well as the KSC75s (highly recommend), are all open back.


But they sound good right?


----------



## Tmanning47

Fox2twenty said:


> But they sound good right?


Absolutely, but not M1060 good. I would take the M1060 over es3 any day. That said, the bass is a bit more boomy on the es3. Also, keep in mind I typically don't like IEMs. So these having my approval at all is a step in the right direction. I might get complys and see if anything changes.


----------



## briank996 (Sep 27, 2017)

Got my ZS6 today from Gearbest.   Personally, I think they sound as good or better as than my ZS5.  I find no harshness at all.

The included cable is pretty sad looking / feeling.  Have them at home on a whiplash audio cable.


----------



## vector84

Apparently from the inside of a Dunu DN-2000J:




  That's not being used as described in Knowles literature... that looks promising ?


----------



## snip3r77

briank996 said:


> Got my ZS6 today from Gearbest.   Personally, I think they sound as good or better as than my ZS5.  I find no harshness at all.
> 
> The included cable is pretty sad looking / feeling.  Have them right at home on a whiplash audio cable.


No hot treble? Pls compare with zs5v1 thanks


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> Absolutely, but not M1060 good. I would take the M1060 over es3 any day. That said, the bass is a bit more boomy on the es3. Also, keep in mind I typically don't like IEMs. So these having my approval at all is a step in the right direction. I might get complys and see if anything changes.


I love foam on the ES3 and ZS5.


----------



## Tmanning47

Fox2twenty said:


> I love foam on the ES3 and ZS5.


Any alternatives to complys on amazon? Complys seem expensive for a bit of foam.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Tmanning47 said:


> Any alternatives to complys on amazon? Complys seem expensive for a bit of foam.


Yeah. New Bee on Gearbest


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Yeah. New Bee on Gearbest


Actually just got my shipping notification....


----------



## vector84

If you meant on amazon specifically, these look pretty similar to the cheap foams you can find on aliexpress, though I haven't tried ordering any yet:
https://www.amazon.com/ALIMPIA-Replacement-Eartips-Earbuds-Earphones/dp/B0182GQK16

Still like twice the price of aliexpress though


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> If you meant on amazon specifically, these look pretty similar to the cheap foams you can find on aliexpress, though I haven't tried ordering any yet:
> https://www.amazon.com/ALIMPIA-Replacement-Eartips-Earbuds-Earphones/dp/B0182GQK16
> 
> Still like twice the price of aliexpress though


Very cool


----------



## Tmanning47

vector84 said:


> If you meant on amazon specifically, these look pretty similar to the cheap foams you can find on aliexpress, though I haven't tried ordering any yet:
> https://www.amazon.com/ALIMPIA-Replacement-Eartips-Earbuds-Earphones/dp/B0182GQK16
> 
> Still like twice the price of aliexpress though


Ordered newbees and these from amazon for the hell of it.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Apparently from the inside of a Dunu DN-2000J:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So where do we get those?


----------



## Slater

Tmanning47 said:


> Any alternatives to complys on amazon? Complys seem expensive for a bit of foam.



Aliexpress FTW


----------



## Tmanning47

Listen


Slater said:


> Aliexpress FTW


Didn't feel like waiting a month to get them..


----------



## Tmanning47

Listen to Neckbrace by ratatat on the ES3s. You won't regret it.


----------



## vector84 (Sep 27, 2017)

Slater said:


> So where do we get those?


Mouser has a better selection than anywhere else I could find on a quick scan but still pretty limited.  Digikey will special order odd ones but smallest lot for that is 100 I believe.
Mouser has a bunch of 1.12mm and 1.78mm, and green 1.37mm in stock.

No idea what size would work - the specced sizes (1.12, 1.37, 1.78) are external dimensions, not internal like they're being used there.

Here's a relevant search on mouser:
http://www.mouser.com/Electromechan...akers-Transducers/_/N-awp4u?P=1yyy7vrZ1yyy7vq

Ohh, looks like if you tick off Acoustic from that search, red 1.37mm too maybe? It links to the data sheet for the green 1.37mm though the model number is for the red 
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Knowles/BF-9778-000


----------



## Otto Motor

kokakolia said:


> About the ZSE, I am gonna assume that the negative review was due to the poor fit. This other reviewer likes the ZSE a lot, and he has a good fit. He says that there's no harshness in the highs and he even likes the ZSE more than the ZS5!
> 
> I think I'll just buy a pair. It's so ridiculously cheap.



Hey, I am the guy (Dr. Schweinsgruber) who did this review. I have only reviewed two earphones, because I really love them: these ZSE and the Swing ie800. And yes, I attempted to sign up for the aliexpress affiliate program, because why should I do all the work and the sellers make the extra profit (I signed up later after the ZSE review already had close to 600 reviews). Igor Eisberg over at audio budget did, too. He reviewed the Headroom MS16 and the seller sold 260 pairs thereafter. In my case, I have not even looked whether this program works with youtube links. 

Back to the earphones: yes, they are cheap and really good. If I was after the money, I oulw have reviewed more expensive ones. TechmanZ's review is laughable. These ZSE are not piercing at all. He also reviewed the VE Monks which are extremely mediocre. Ask Hifi Chris I had been corresponding about with.


----------



## Fox2twenty

briank996 said:


> Got my ZS6 today from Gearbest.   Personally, I think they sound as good or better as than my ZS5.  I find no harshness at all.
> 
> The included cable is pretty sad looking / feeling.  Have them at home on a whiplash audio cable.


Great news and


----------



## Ab10 (Sep 28, 2017)

KZ Zs6 is heavier than Zs5....Right ? Is it painful for long listening session due to its weight? Also is there any real upgrade from Zs5 to Zs6 Sonically?


----------



## briank996

Ab10 said:


> KZ Zs6 is heavier than Zs5....Right ? Is it painful for long listening session due to its weight? Also is there any real upgrade from Zs5 to Zs6 Sonically?



ZS6 is obvious heavier, but I don't notice them it wearing them, very comfy.

They look expensive, and feel substantial.  I don't really notice any difference in sound quality.


----------



## Comebackboy

briank996 said:


> Got my ZS6 today from Gearbest.   Personally, I think they sound as good or better as than my ZS5.  I find no harshness at all.
> 
> The included cable is pretty sad looking / feeling.  Have them at home on a whiplash audio cable.



Better than the zs5? In what aspects? I personally am a treble lover but after reading that they are treble nukes, even I'm concerned. I have no problem with the Zs5 though.


----------



## djmakemynight

Now I am waiting for ZS5 and ZS6 to be delivered. I got the 2 non silver looking upgrade cables as well since I don't really fancy any green on my cables.

Still considering on GB exclusive ES3 and also ZSE. Decisions decisions...


----------



## HungryPanda

Go on you know you want to


----------



## snip3r77

briank996 said:


> ZS6 is obvious heavier, but I don't notice them it wearing them, very comfy.
> 
> They look expensive, and feel substantial.  I don't really notice any difference in sound quality.


If it sounds similar , then zs5v1 will be most value for money


----------



## Ab10

snip3r77 said:


> If it sounds similar , then zs5v1 will be most value for money



How to differentiate between Zs5 version 1 and version 2? What are the signs?


----------



## snip3r77

Ab10 said:


> How to differentiate between Zs5 version 1 and version 2? What are the signs?



shine light to the nozzle, 1 BA seen = v1


----------



## Mellowship

snip3r77 said:


> Since zs5 is the best of the kz lot , what is below zs5?
> Zs3/zst/es3/zse?
> Or I can skip and wait for zsr / zs6v2?


People gonna kill me, but I have to say kz IE80.


----------



## djmakemynight

HungryPanda said:


> Go on you know you want to



I also got I-Into i8, UiiSii CM5 and T8s in the order as well. Gonna have an IEM party.


----------



## Ab10

Thank You.....Just One More Question to the Comunity, Which wireless module is comatibale with Zs5...Please let me know.

This one with angled pin - https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html

This one with staright pin, similar orintation default cable of Zs5 - https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712240.html


----------



## snip3r77

djmakemynight said:


> I also got I-Into i8, UiiSii CM5 and T8s in the order as well. Gonna have an IEM party.



Wah pls review when you receive it thanks


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Ab10 said:


> Thank You.....Just One More Question to the Comunity, Which wireless module is comatibale with Zs5...Please let me know.
> 
> This one with angled pin - https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html
> 
> This one with staright pin, similar orintation default cable of Zs5 - https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712240.html



Straight one.


----------



## Holypal

My ZS6 order from ali hasn't been shipped yet. I thought GearBest is usually slower than ali.


----------



## djmakemynight

snip3r77 said:


> Wah pls review when you receive it thanks



Yeah, I plan to share after I get to hear them all.


----------



## Brava210

So impressed with the kz ate.  I now have zst on its way.


----------



## Superluc

briank996 said:


> I find no harshness at all.


Really ? With that measured peak ?

Maybe the first batch of ZS6, with some rumors of withdraw, may have been unbalanced. Who knows...


----------



## Shadowsora

Just received my ZS5, I am 99.99% it's the V2 version but I will try to get a photo of it as well.
Treble NUKES.

Cymbals can make a hole through your brain.

Oh well, equalizing all the way.
Other than that impressive soundstage and you can say it's ""detailed"", it's only natural when you amp up the highs so much.


----------



## snip3r77

Shadowsora said:


> Just received my ZS5, I am 99.99% it's the V2 version but I will try to get a photo of it as well.
> Treble NUKES.
> 
> Cymbals can make a hole through your brain.
> ...



It’s still not too bad to reduce


----------



## Aevum

So i own a ZS5 V1, sounds sweet, no harshness.

So the ZS6 is not an upgrade to them ?


----------



## Wiljen

Not without modifications no, the Zs6 is not an upgrade.  If it didn't have the 10kHz spike I would say it has tighter bass and a bit larger soundstage than the Zs5 so in some ways it is an upgrade, but the spike makes it very fatiguing after about 15-20 minutes of listening.  I am working on damping or filtering one of the BAs to see if I can bring that down.  If we can find a good repeatable procedure for reducing that spike, then I think they are worth having, right now they are an experiment.


----------



## snip3r77

Wiljen said:


> Not without modifications no, the Zs6 is not an upgrade.  If it didn't have the 10kHz spike I would say it has tighter bass and a bit larger soundstage than the Zs5 so in some ways it is an upgrade, but the spike makes it very fatiguing after about 15-20 minutes of listening.  I am working on damping or filtering one of the BAs to see if I can bring that down.  If we can find a good repeatable procedure for reducing that spike, then I think they are worth having, right now they are an experiment.


Measurement is important to confirm the mod


----------



## poklu

I just ordered the ZS6 from Aliexpress. I read that the original cable is not very good so what cable would you recommend for them?


----------



## Wiljen

snip3r77 said:


> Measurement is important to confirm the mod



Agreed, thus the use of the word repeatable - not sure how else you would know if the mod is repeatable without having a way to measure it.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 28, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Measurement is important to confirm the mod


More than "confirm", measurement can be helpful for understand witch of the two BA produce that peak and if damping that one have some effect on other frequency.
Driver's division and BA's position could make that easy, so i'm convinced that, even if i'm a treble-sensitive guy, we can do it and obtain what we was hoping, even if the need for a mod is disappointing.



poklu said:


> I just ordered the ZS6 from Aliexpress. I read that the original cable is not very good so what cable would you recommend for them?


The newer is this one. It seem oxigen free.

Some other upgrade cables


----------



## snip3r77

Superluc said:


> More than "confirm", measurement can be helpful for understand witch of the two BA produce that peak and if damping that one have some effect on other frequency.
> Driver's division and BA's position could make that easy, so i'm convinced that, even if i'm a treble-sensitive guy, we can do it and obtain what we was hoping, even if the need for a mod is disappointing.
> 
> 
> ...



Another way is get a pure copper cable . It should add some warmth , hopefully enough


----------



## Sylmar

Mellowship said:


> People gonna kill me, but I have to say kz IE80.



Ordered.


----------



## poklu

Superluc said:


> The newer is this one. It seem oxigen free.
> 
> Some other upgrade cables



Thanks for the suggestions. All the ones for ZS6 have L-type plug, I would like a straight plug with no bend. Are there good cables available for ZS6 with a straight plug?


----------



## Podster (Sep 28, 2017)

briank996 said:


> Got my ZS6 today from Gearbest.   Personally, I think they sound as good or better as than my ZS5.  I find no harshness at all.
> 
> The included cable is pretty sad looking / feeling.  Have them at home on a whiplash audio cable.



Nice Whiplash, also glad to hear about the non treble attack as we may have similar hearing

@Superluc the new ZS5/6 cables in the gold looking wire now have an angled plug at the shell as opposed to the old ZS3/ZS5 cable which was straight? With so many models now and different versions one must be careful when picking these new cables!


----------



## Superluc

poklu said:


> Are there good cables available for ZS6 with a straight plug?


This one is said to be for ZST, but other head-fi users use it also on the ZS5.


----------



## Podster (Sep 28, 2017)

Superluc said:


> This one is said to be for ZST, but other head-fi users use it also on the ZS5.



That's the one I'm using on my ZST Carbon's, going to order a few more now for my Colorfuls and ZS5/6's





Who I ordered my last one from is out but NiceHCK has them in at $8.99


----------



## eaglesgift

Podster said:


> That's the one I'm using on my ZST Carbon's, going to order a few more now for my Colorfuls and ZS5/6's
> 
> 
> 
> Who I ordered my last one from is out but NiceHCK has them in at $8.99


I really like the look of those cables but don't the ZS3 and ZS5 have 0.78mm connectors or am I confused?


----------



## Brava210

Just received and tried the zst.......wow 
Impressive


----------



## Podster

eaglesgift said:


> I really like the look of those cables but don't the ZS3 and ZS5 have 0.78mm connectors or am I confused?



Good point and why I said one needs to be sure before buying these new cables. KZ has always been specific to what non stock cables work with which iem! I bought this current cable because it was to work with the ZST which it does perfectly, this is why I was curious to the plug angle being changed on the new ZS5/6 cables because my old ones bent on the ZST's and straight as well as the ZS3/ZS5 originals. I will say you may be onto something with the .78 thing as my ZS3 cables never fit my iem's from the get go, I had to bend the pins out and use super glue to get mine to stay in! Same thing when I ordered the ZS3 silver plated's which did the same thing Really pissed me off because the ZS3 is not a bad iem and the shell shape is probably the sexiest KZ has made to date.


----------



## tworule

Shadowsora said:


> Just received my ZS5, I am 99.99% it's the V2 version but I will try to get a photo of it as well.
> Treble NUKES.
> 
> Cymbals can make a hole through your brain.
> ...


Is this the gray one without mic from GB?


----------



## HiFiChris

Ab10 said:


> KZ Zs6 is heavier than Zs5....Right ? Is it painful for long listening session due to its weight? Also is there any real upgrade from Zs5 to Zs6 Sonically?



ZS6 is indeed heavier however not really noticeable (well, I don't really have issues with my Audeze LCD-X's weight though, so individual people's mileage may vary - nonetheless I highly doubt that anyone will have issues with the ZS6's weight.). The metal shells feel a lot more premium though and are quite excellent when it comes to build quality.
Although the shape seems to be similar, the ZS6's shells feel a bit "sharper" and edgier in one's ears (not that its corners are any sharper than the ZS5's, but the shape is just more noticeable to me).

Cannot comment about the "new" ZS5, but have the "old" one on hand. ZS6's upper treble spike aside, its midrange linearity has somewhat improved (as you can also see on the comparative FR measurement). Bass seems a tad tighter and a bit more defined (quantity is the same). Not a large difference at all though, which also goes for the midrange that seems to resolve just slightly better.


----------



## Ynot1

This thread is about the best at using freq measurement plots. I wondered with certain things being talked about often, if
these things should be done.
Take the freq plot while there is a bass track playing through the earphone.
This way you might see the bass bleed issue.
For mids and highs of multidriver earphones, plot the phase response to see if the coherence is right.
Just wondering.


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 28, 2017)

Podster said:


> Good point and why I said one needs to be sure before buying these new cables. KZ has always been specific to what non stock cables work with which iem! I bought this current cable because it was to work with the ZST which it does perfectly, this is why I was curious to the plug angle being changed on the new ZS5/6 cables because my old ones bent on the ZST's and straight as well as the ZS3/ZS5 originals. I will say you may be onto something with the .78 thing as my ZS3 cables never fit my iem's from the get go, I had to bend the pins out and use super glue to get mine to stay in! Same thing when I ordered the ZS3 silver plated's which did the same thing Really pissed me off because the ZS3 is not a bad iem and the shell shape is probably the sexiest KZ has made to date.


I love the shell shape. Last time I was on a plane, I tried Piston 3s for about 30 seconds but they sounded tinny and let in loads of noise. After quickly swapping to the ZS3 I was in heaven: no jet noise, that lovely comfortable feel and I think the bass emphasis was just right for the environment.


----------



## JonnyXDA

I received my ZS6 yesterday.  Take the following with a pinch of salt though, explained later.

Using http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php I've checked the treble response and to my ears I didn't notice the spike.  Also in just general listening my experience is that the treble matches fairly well with the mids and bass, with the bass seeming tighter than ZS5 v1. Mine were also in phase.

There is certainly more treble than I'd personally like but that is my preference as I'm a nightclub sound engineer so as you can imagine I tend to tune systems to get a great sub-bass sound then match the mids and tops to that (favourite systems by the way are Void ones).

Additionally I'm well aware that the upper end of my hearing is starting to go (I can't hear above 18k currently) so I have no idea whether this has affected my ability to hear the reported 10k spike, but for me it wasn't there.  Maybe I got lucky or maybe my hearing is off


----------



## Podster

I'm just tested his new ZS3/ZS5 silver plated cable on my ZS3 and guess what............................they don't fit, pins are too fat to go in Now like I said AliEx has sellers saying this .75 cable fits into ZS3/ZS5 and 6 All I know is I either got a faulty pair of ZS3 with a different pin size or all these sellers on AliEx are saying both ZS3, ZST and ZS5/6 are .75!


----------



## Selenium

I should have my ZS6 soon. I'm not treble sensitive at all, and as a matter of fact prefer a bright shiny signature, so I'll be able to help shed some light on this "treble nuke" situation. At least as it pertains to people like me.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 28, 2017)

JonnyXDA said:


> I received my ZS6 yesterday.  Take the following with a pinch of salt though, explained later.
> 
> Using http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php I've checked the treble response and to my ears I didn't notice the spike.  Also in just general listening my experience is that the treble matches fairly well with the mids and bass, with the bass seeming tighter than ZS5 v1. Mine were also in phase.
> 
> ...



It can't be your ears. There must be some difference between the first batch and what they shipped now... or at least i hope it' like that


----------



## VinceHill24

Hmm ... now i'm starting to think if the treble issue is the batch with QC issue someone mentioned back then ... if it is really the QC issue, then there's still hope for others. 

Anyway i still find myself enjoying it after the mod and so far it's been with me in my ear for so long that i don't wanna take it out. Bass and midrange is just so nice without the treble spike bothering me anymore. 

Just to give an idea of how tiny the little foam would be.


----------



## wastan

Podster said:


> I'm just tested his new ZS3/ZS5 silver plated cable on my ZS3 and guess what............................they don't fit, pins are too fat to go in Now like I said AliEx has sellers saying this .75 cable fits into ZS3/ZS5 and 6 All I know is I either got a faulty pair of ZS3 with a different pin size or all these sellers on AliEx are saying both ZS3, ZST and ZS5/6 are .75!



Early ZS3 did not use the same connector size that the current ZS3/ZS5/ZS6 use. Maybe that's the issue.


----------



## eaglesgift

wastan said:


> Early ZS3 did not use the same connector size that the current ZS3/ZS5/ZS6 use. Maybe that's the issue.


Does anyone know for sure what the current pin sizes for ZST, ZS3 and ZS5 should be?


----------



## vector84

Podster said:


> I'm just tested his new ZS3/ZS5 silver plated cable on my ZS3 and guess what............................they don't fit, pins are too fat to go in Now like I said AliEx has sellers saying this .75 cable fits into ZS3/ZS5 and 6 All I know is I either got a faulty pair of ZS3 with a different pin size or all these sellers on AliEx are saying both ZS3, ZST and ZS5/6 are .75!





wastan said:


> Early ZS3 did not use the same connector size that the current ZS3/ZS5/ZS6 use. Maybe that's the issue.





eaglesgift said:


> Does anyone know for sure what the current pin sizes for ZST, ZS3 and ZS5 should be?


wastan has the right of it.  First run ZS3s (the original run that had units with crushed sound tubes) used 0.78mm pins on the connector.
To the best of my knowledge, all subsequent ZS3/ZS5 style connectors use 0.75mm pins


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> wastan has the right of it.  First run ZS3s (the original run that had units with crushed sound tubes) used 0.78mm pins on the connector.
> To the best of my knowledge, all subsequent ZS3/ZS5 style connectors use 0.75mm pins


And ZST right?


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> And ZST right?


ZST is a different connection housing that I have less personal experience with, but my understanding is they should all be 0.75mm too yeah.


Also I think a batch from the first run ZS3s may have recently turned up from a bunch of less than reputable sources, I got one like last month when I couldn't help but order a ZS3 for $5... yeah, got about what I expected.


----------



## tworule

vector84 said:


> ZST is a different connection housing that I have less personal experience with, but my understanding is they should all be 0.75mm too yeah.
> 
> 
> Also I think a batch from the first run ZS3s may have recently turned up from a bunch of less than reputable sources, I got one like last month when I couldn't help but order a ZS3 for $5... yeah, got about what I expected.


Did you order from gb?


----------



## vector84

tworule said:


> Did you order from gb?


Nah, those came from some shady Walmart.com associated vendor.  When I messaged them it sure sounded to me like they knew exactly what they were doing (sending out items from a recalled batch). They disappeared from Walmart shortly after that.


----------



## Podster

wastan said:


> Early ZS3 did not use the same connector size that the current ZS3/ZS5/ZS6 use. Maybe that's the issue.



THX @wastan , I ordered my matte finish ZS3 right after they came out so I'm sure I have the SPECIAL pair Lucky me If I did not already have a plethora of iem's I would just order another pair but with my luck I'd get one of the first runs! At one time I was also wanting the shiny ones but the cable on mine turned me off and I never went through with it


----------



## cqtek (Sep 28, 2017)

For those who have purchased the ZS6 and want to trim treble, there are some Ostry tuning tips, the OS300 are the black ones, maybe can filter some treble peaks:

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/OSTR...108.1000016.1.15437274TukNpk&isOrigTitle=true







I have them and I use them to filter trebles peaks in my RHA S500, at 8KHz (not bigger than ZS6).

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/RHAS500i.pdf

There are no problem to put this tips in my ZS5.

Probably there is not the best solution to filter this Everest peak at 10KHz but they can help a little.


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> ZST is a different connection housing that I have less personal experience with, but my understanding is they should all be 0.75mm too yeah.
> 
> 
> Also I think a batch from the first run ZS3s may have recently turned up from a bunch of less than reputable sources, I got one like last month when I couldn't help but order a ZS3 for $5... yeah, got about what I expected.


It's all a bit confusing. These ones are being sold as for the ZS5 / ZS6 but to me, the connectors look like the ZST type...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Oll...lgo_pvid=c2b01fe9-0bb7-47c1-bf99-29b295a906dc


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> It's all a bit confusing. These ones are being sold as for the ZS5 / ZS6 but to me, the connectors look like the ZST type...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Oll...lgo_pvid=c2b01fe9-0bb7-47c1-bf99-29b295a906dc


Seller description or pictures are not in agreement, wouldn't buy that particular one from that vendor without confirmation imo.

You can find those gold cables with the normal ZS5 fittings.


----------



## sghound

ZS6 arrived via GB coupla days back.

great news, off da bat, NOT treble cannons.

sounds a lot like the ZS5v1 but with more air.

loving it so far after 2 days of burn-in.


----------



## Spelaeus

Selenium said:


> I should have my ZS6 soon. I'm not treble sensitive at all, and as a matter of fact prefer a bright shiny signature, so I'll be able to help shed some light on this "treble nuke" situation. At least as it pertains to people like me.



As a Grado and Beyerdynamic fan, I look forward to hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> Really ? With that measured peak ?
> 
> Maybe the first batch of ZS6, with some rumors of withdraw, may have been unbalanced. Who knows...


I think this is what happened. There was a recall after all.


----------



## Spelaeus

sghound said:


> ZS6 arrived via GB coupla days back.
> 
> great news, off da bat, NOT treble cannons.
> 
> ...



Now I'm curious. Are there still two BAs visible in the nozzle?


----------



## sghound

Spelaeus said:


> Now I'm curious. Are there still two BAs visible in the nozzle?



i really tried with a torch but the mesh is too shiny and reflects so i can't tell to be honest.

one more thing of note, the zs6 is more picky on source and amping than the zs5v1.  feed it junk and the nasties will show up easily.  the zs5v1 is way more forgiving with lesser quality audio.


----------



## Fox2twenty

sghound said:


> ZS6 arrived via GB coupla days back.
> 
> great news, off da bat, NOT treble cannons.
> 
> ...


Yay!!


----------



## Holypal

I got this KZ cable today. It fits ZS5 very well. The build is very good. The Y split and 3.5mm jack are big with good quality.

But it's very heavy, weight 20g compare to 12g of original ZS5 silver cable.  And with ZS6, the total will probably be 40g.


----------



## Podster (Sep 28, 2017)

sghound said:


> i really tried with a torch but the mesh is too shiny and reflects so i can't tell to be honest.
> 
> one more thing of note, the zs6 is more picky on source and amping than the zs5v1.  feed it junk and the nasties will show up easily.  the zs5v1 is way more forgiving with lesser quality audio.



Well for me that is a sure indicator there are two high freq. BA's up against you drums!!!!

THX @Holypal , got two of those coming for my ZS5's and the other brand for my ZS6 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...8.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.262.cnb4TO 

Still laughing @HiFiChris on the iem weight comment on that last page as I don't find any iem cable too heavy since I'm an over ear support kind of guy, matter a fact I've been in my Trinity Boat Anchors (Masters) for the last hour and nada as for discomfort

Speaking of heavy cables or just a cable that was unruly from the get go was the one that came on my D2000, may as well have a Python around your neck


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> Well for me that is a sure indicator there are two high freq. BA's up against you drums!!!!
> 
> THX @Holypal , got two of those coming for my ZS5's and the other brand for my ZS6 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...8.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.262.cnb4TO
> 
> Still laughing @HiFiChris on the iem weight comment on that last page as I don't find any iem cable too heavy since I'm an over ear support kind of guy, matter a fact I've been in my Trinity Boat Anchors (Masters) for the last hour and nada as for discomfort


Part of the reason I like Memory wire.


----------



## Podster

Fox2twenty said:


> Part of the reason I like Memory wire.



Well if your cable is heavy enough there is no need for wire wrap


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> Well if your cable is heavy enough there is no need for wire wrap


This is blowing my mind... Now I want a heavy cable!!


----------



## CYoung234

Holypal said:


> I got this KZ cable today. It fits ZS5 very well. The build is very good. The Y split and 3.5mm jack are big with good quality.
> 
> But it's very heavy, weight 20g compare to 12g of original ZS5 silver cable.  And with ZS6, the total will probably be 40g.



I have this cable on order as well. Is the jack a combination 3.5mm / 2.5mm? If not, I will need to find mine!


----------



## JonnyXDA

sghound said:


> ZS6 arrived via GB coupla days back.
> 
> great news, off da bat, NOT treble cannons.
> 
> ...


I think the first couple of people who posted got bad sets and we ended up with good ones.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 28, 2017)

Vidal said:


> @VinceHill24 thanks for your impressions
> 
> Sounds like the ZS6 could suit me, I like treble and as long as the bass isn't too much these could be a win.



If someone end up with a treble cannon ( not me, please  ) and you receive the "corrected" version, it's better to exchange them


----------



## kokakolia

JonnyXDA said:


> I think the first couple of people who posted got bad sets and we ended up with good ones.



Huh!? Interesting. I might consider ordering a pair then. That still means that they're bright sounding though?


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> Huh!? Interesting. I might consider ordering a pair then. That still means that they're bright sounding though?


If you have fear for that and are not in the mood for mod them and try different tips for bass enhancing, it's best to wait until some more treble sensitive guys receive the normal cannon


----------



## Superluc (Sep 28, 2017)

sghound said:


> one more thing of note, the zs6 is more picky on source and amping than the zs5v1.  feed it junk and the nasties will show up easily.  the zs5v1 is way more forgiving with lesser quality audio.


Searching around i have see something that it could be related. Here, this guy write that the ZS5 have a maximum input power of 109 mW, and the ZS6 of 75 mW.
If this is true, from a tecnical point of view they need to be fed with less power.


----------



## rdsreference

cqtek said:


> For those who have purchased the ZS6 and want to trim treble, there are some Ostry tuning tips, the OS300 are the black ones, maybe can filter some treble peaks:
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/OSTR...108.1000016.1.15437274TukNpk&isOrigTitle=true
> 
> ...


----------



## rdsreference

These kind of posts are the reason that head Fi is just such an amazing resource for sound geeks like us. I'm waiting for my Zs6,s I have to say I'm really interested to hear how good these are for the money at best what are they comparable to? Sure SE 215? Or better some say up to 200+ in value but I'm not a believer


----------



## snip3r77

sghound said:


> ZS6 arrived via GB coupla days back.
> 
> great news, off da bat, NOT treble cannons.
> 
> ...



Is the bass still distorted ? Are the  mids recessed ?


----------



## rdsreference (Sep 28, 2017)

I have a pair of Hisenior T8 iem 8 driver and I'm not happy with the cables so I ordered some Fiio ones last week. I'm thinking that the handmade Hisenior will be an upgrade for the ZS6 when they arrive who knows Chinese cables get a lot of "flac" pun Intended I suppose you really don't know what you are buying Ill give my report on these new models when they arrive. They dispatched 2 weeks ago ***.


----------



## Superluc

rdsreference said:


> I suppose you really don't know what you are buying


Oh please... like someone can think that with 8$, for an upgrade KZ cable, we can buy something with electrical characteristics good as the ones that cost a bunch of ZS6 

The next KZ cable is made of platinum ? 

Just something better than the stock one, for microphonics and esthetic value, it's enough, at that price.

Everything must be proportioned. Sources, transducers... and cables.


----------



## snip3r77

Patiently await more zs6 feedback


----------



## snip3r77

.


----------



## rdsreference

Looking forward to seeing hearing and analysing these throughly once they arrive. Ill give my feedback. There is an unboxing video on you tube if anyone just puts ZS6 into the search tab.


----------



## rdsreference

Superluc said:


> Oh please... like someone can think that with 8$, for an upgrade KZ cable, we can buy something with electrical characteristics good as the ones that cost a bunch of ZS6
> 
> The next KZ cable is made of platinum ?
> 
> ...


I do agree


----------



## vector84 (Sep 28, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Searching around i have see something that it could be related. Here, this guy write that the ZS5 have a maximum input power of 109 mW, and the ZS6 of 75 mW.
> If this is true, from a tecnical point of view they need to be fed with less power.


Maximum power isn't how much they need to be fed - "how much they need to be fed" is a matter of sensitivity.
(and impedance, both because of how it effects sensitivity specced in dB/mW, and because of how it loads the source - when sensitivity is specced in dB/V only the source loading applies though, it doesn't directly influence the sensitivity number as specced)

No idea where those numbers came from either - KZ's specs that are posted elsewhere put the ZS5 at a max power dissipation of 10mW and I don't see a maximum power dissipation number on the ZS6.

Mind you trying to dump 100mW into either would be near instant hearing damage loud (around 126dB).

But those power dissipation numbers are really supposed to be about how much power something can handle without distorting, and with no info on what that max power means in relation to a distortion value, it's pretty meaningless.

And if you wanted to assume those numbers aren't just random and they did pick a distortion value and stick to it (and the numbers themselves... never seen them before...), it would mean that the ZS6 can "only" reach 124dB before distorting, rather than 126dB for the ZS5 - probably not at all relevant unless you're listening to absurdly high DR recordings at excessively high volume.


PS: They need amping not so much for power but due to current concerns, not to mention such low impedance puts huge strain on the source.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 28, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Maximum power isn't how much they need to be fed - "how much they need to be fed" is a matter of sensitivity.


I know, but we was talking about distortion, not volume. I was just saying that could be a hint, but who even knows if those numbers are right or some random specs. I have just found them and they also appear too much to me.

Ok... next time it's better not to link unreliable sources, sorry


----------



## vector84

Superluc said:


> I know, but we was talking about distortion, not volume. I was just saying that could be a hint, but who even knows if that numbers are right or some random specs. I have just found them and they also appear too much to me.
> 
> Ok... next time it's better not to link unreliable sources, sorry


Oh no, more information is better, I'm just trying to explain what the numbers might mean, and why to be cautious about them 

For example, if KZ's specs are at 0.1% distortion vs 1% distortion... well hey, those are gonna be some very different numbers.


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> and with no info on what that max power means in relation to a distortion value, it's pretty meaningless.





vector84 said:


> I'm just trying to explain what the numbers might mean, and why to be cautious about them
> 
> For example, if KZ's specs are at 0.1% distortion vs 1% distortion... well hey, those are gonna be some very different numbers.



...you are right, thanks


----------



## vector84

On a more useful note towards that conversation at hand, instead of just a technical memo...

The ZS6 will probably play nicer with sources on the power front due to the crossover (impedance matching in relation to power), but that could mean playing less nice on the response side (impedance matching in relation to frequency response).


----------



## Fox2twenty

ZS6 1.1 sounds like a success!!


----------



## ephrank

Holypal said:


> I got this KZ cable today. It fits ZS5 very well. The build is very good. The Y split and 3.5mm jack are big with good quality.
> 
> But it's very heavy, weight 20g compare to 12g of original ZS5 silver cable.  And with ZS6, the total will probably be 40g.



Nice cables! How's the build quality like? Is the plastic strain relief on the 3.5mm plug well made?


----------



## vector84 (Sep 28, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Searching around i have see something that it could be related. Here, this guy write that the ZS5 have a maximum input power of 109 mW, and the ZS6 of 75 mW.
> If this is true, from a tecnical point of view they need to be fed with less power.


Skimming through this, there were a few oddities that stood out to me - mostly just strange funny things:



> KZ ZS3 - Twin dynamic drivers IEM





> ZS5:
> Driver Diameter: 10mm woofer, 6.4mm midrange, Star Micronics 1205 BA tweeter and Knowles 30095 BA


Not a Knowles, clearly KZ branded...


> ZS6:
> Transducers: Balanced Armature / Dynamic ("sandwiched" woofer and midrange in a single unit made by Kinera/Yutai Electronics)
> Drivers: 10mm dynamic woofer and 6mm midrange, Star Micronics 1206 BA tweeter


Interesting 


But I'm getting side tracked with technicalities when what I really wanted to share was this:


> Star Micronics is a world-wide leader in providing the receipt printer and POS printer you need for all point of sale retail applications.





> A global manufacturer of POS hardware, Star Micronics has been supporting retailers for over 30 years to deliver efficient, reliable store solutions.





> On January 1, 2014, Star Micronics, Co., Ltd. transferred its micro audio components business to Foster Electric Company Limited.


----------



## Aevum (Sep 29, 2017)

so, the ZS6 has a crossover ?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Aevum said:


> so, the ZS6 has a crossover ?


That's the rumor.


----------



## Aevum

considering it has screws instead of glue on the zs6, i suppose someone can open it without ripping it apart.


----------



## maxxevv

The last time the opened cap picts were shown here, there seems to be an electronic crossover,  but not an active one.  

You can scroll back maybe 5~7days ago for the picts.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Aevum said:


> considering it has screws instead of glue on the zs6, i suppose someone can open it without ripping it apart.


Oooo, and make a diagram of the pieces. Someone should do that.


----------



## acia

rdsreference said:


> These kind of posts are the reason that head Fi is just such an amazing resource for sound geeks like us. I'm waiting for my Zs6,s I have to say I'm really interested to hear how good these are for the money at best what are they comparable to? Sure SE 215? Or better some say up to 200+ in value but I'm not a believer



such an insult to compare zs6 with 215.

zs5 with everything stock alone can put 315 and 215 to the bin.


----------



## maxxevv

lol ...   

In audio, its extremely dependent on the sound signature one prefers and its also highly dependent on the sound perception of the individual.  

Can't really say which is really better as some really like the SE215.  But those are really long in the tooth already.  The last time I tried one was maybe 5 years ago, so my memory is a little vague at best. 
The isolation as far as I remember for them were excellent.  

But the ZS5 is definitely more capable in the retrieval of detail and cleaniness and tightness of its bass output.   Heck, I may say my US$20/- CI880's sound better to my ears than the SE215, well, as least what my memory serves me and my preferences in sound signature prioritizes.   

Its how things have progressed over the past 5 years or more when it comes to portable hi-fi.  

I'm quite sure highly rated ones ( regardless of brand)  that cost under US$60/- now would easily have crossed the US$250/- mark just 4 years or so ago from the established names.


----------



## poklu

Superluc said:


> This one is said to be for ZST, but other head-fi users use it also on the ZS5.



Okay I ordered this one. Thanks so much for the help.

How about the eartips for ZS5/ZS6, are the original ones good or should I get some other ones?


----------



## Holypal

ephrank said:


> Nice cables! How's the build quality like? Is the plastic strain relief on the 3.5mm plug well made?



The plastic strain relief on the 3.5mm plug is strong enough.  About the quality, it looks OK, but I heard that they will turn green in a few months.


----------



## Holypal

CYoung234 said:


> I have this cable on order as well. Is the jack a combination 3.5mm / 2.5mm? If not, I will need to find mine!



The jack is a 3-pole 3.5mm plug.


----------



## Shadowsora

Oh no, QC issues again it seems.
Crossed fingers that my ZS6 is good, I was really hyped that it would be my top currently owned IEM.
So far Hybrid urbanfuns take the spot.

On another note, I am kinda getting used to my ZS5 but! Cymbals still pierce my brain and sometimes vocals sound artificial, when it comes to classical music or anything with no cymbals involved they are actually really good, great soundstage.


----------



## vector84

Shadowsora said:


> On another note, I am kinda getting used to my ZS5 but! Cymbals still pierce my brain and sometimes vocals sound artificial, when it comes to classical music or anything with no cymbals involved they are actually really good, great soundstage.


If tampering is your style, my experience was that Viber's mod recessed cymbal presence by a ton:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1411#post-13715111


----------



## TheWongWrong

Podster said:


> @-sandro- , Bumpity bump bump bump LOL Sorry man just messin' wit ya. The ZSE is a nice warm iem, if I could call it my term would be crisp and even. Think the three little bears here, not too bright and not too warm (or bassy) but just about right for all genre's


How do you find the Benjies? Thinking of getting one


----------



## Saoshyant

ZS6 is already for sale with Prime shipping?  Almost regret the gearbest purchase.


----------



## WeixinLou

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum, though have been reading for the last... 8 years?

anyway, I wanted to post here to ask for advice on EQ for the KZ ZS5.

I picked up the ZS3, ZST Pro, and ZS5 recently, and found the ZS5 the hardest to EQ. I'm thinking that the 2×BA drivers don't respond very well to EQ corrections, and it's a broad band of frequencies that bother me.

I use an iPod Touch 6th Gen 32gb, running the Golden Ears Accudio Pro app (unfortunately it's been pulled from the store and GoldenEars hasn't been functioning for a while... I'm quite out of date), no external amping.

My main earpiece previously was the TTPod T2, and so far the most balanced budget earphone I've had so far is the SoundMagic E30, which I consider relatively flat with a warm low end and a tad bit too long an LF decay.

my adjustments on the TTPod T2:

Gain | Bandwidth | Frequency
-6.0 | 0.15 | 8350
-5.0 | 0.15 | 3000
-3.0 | 0.15 | 770
-4.0 | 3.60 | 200
-4.0 | 3.60 | 20

I don't aim for true Hi-Fi flatness, just want to pull our offending frequencies that are overpowering. I generally don't venture past 80USD as a price point for earphones, so I'd say I'm a Budget-Fi Guy. Hence, KZ.

Anyway, so I've read posts on the measurement graphs of the ZS5 and have tried several adjustments, but eventually ended up just going with:

Gain | Bandwidth | Frequency
-3.0 | 5.0 | 16000
-10.0 | 0.5 | 10700

this works for now, but when checking against my soundcheck songs, I do still get high-hat sounds that cut through terribly.

does anyone else find the BA drivers to be too sibilant and overly bright? I was confused because I read other reviews and opinions that said the ZS5 improved the sibilance from the ZSTs, which can't be right. A/Bing the two, I cannot help but find the ZS5 to be almost offensively bright without EQ.


----------



## TheWongWrong

HiFiChris said:


> ZS6 is indeed heavier however not really noticeable (well, I don't really have issues with my Audeze LCD-X's weight though, so individual people's mileage may vary - nonetheless I highly doubt that anyone will have issues with the ZS6's weight.). The metal shells feel a lot more premium though and are quite excellent when it comes to build quality.
> Although the shape seems to be similar, the ZS6's shells feel a bit "sharper" and edgier in one's ears (not that its corners are any sharper than the ZS5's, but the shape is just more noticeable to me).
> 
> Cannot comment about the "new" ZS5, but have the "old" one on hand. ZS6's upper treble spike aside, its midrange linearity has somewhat improved (as you can also see on the comparative FR measurement). Bass seems a tad tighter and a bit more defined (quantity is the same). Not a large difference at all though, which also goes for the midrange that seems to resolve just slightly better.


I have to say, what is it that intrigues you to purchase something so low down the price bracket when you sport a pair of LCD-Xs?


----------



## HungryPanda

I also have a pair of LCD-X's but love my chi-fi


----------



## vector84

WeixinLou said:


> Anyway, so I've read posts on the measurement graphs of the ZS5 and have tried several adjustments, but eventually ended up just going with:
> 
> Gain | Bandwidth | Frequency
> -3.0 | 5.0 | 16000
> ...


So I'm just an amateur as far as EQ goes but here's a few thoughts:

Stuff going on that high tends to relate more to overtones than fundamentals - try adding some shifts in fundamental ranges too.
I would tend to think to look around 3-5kHz for high hats and 5-8kHz for sibilance.
Based on the TTPod T2 comments, I would guess you might want to try messing around in the 5kHz range.


----------



## Podster (Sep 29, 2017)

TheWongWrong said:


> How do you find the Benjies? Thinking of getting one



First let me apologize for any fat finger typos that appear! Obviously on my iPhone at 5:00AM or maybe not!

The T6 and S5 are so close in SS it is very hard discerning which is better, S5 is smaller and lighter but does not offer gapless but then again it's only half the price of the T6 but to answer your question I really like both my S5 and T6. Battery life rocks as well. Cheers


----------



## Viber

WeixinLou said:


> Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum, though have been reading for the last... 8 years?
> 
> anyway, I wanted to post here to ask for advice on EQ for the KZ ZS5.
> 
> ...



From my experience, modding the ZS5 is far more efficient than EQ'ing it.


----------



## WeixinLou

Viber said:


> From my experience, modding the ZS5 is far more efficient than EQ'ing it.



what're the usual means of modding the ZS5? the unit that I have doesnt seem to have much leeway except for ripping it apart. that being said, I'm not too keen on taking a real jab at it.


----------



## TimeSnow

So like I mentioned recently I ordered some ATEs from Amazon, and instead received ED12s. I contacted the seller and they're sending me replacements... But... Today... I got ANOTHER pair of ED12s in the post.

This is probably the 5th time in 2 months I've been randomly double shipped something.

So... ED12s as stocking suffers I guess.


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> More than "confirm", measurement can be helpful for understand witch of the two BA produce that peak and if damping that one have some effect on other frequency.



In theory it would be both BAs not 1, because they are both identical units. Unless there's some weird doubling artifact going on with the 2 drivers that would be eliminated by dampening (or disconnecting) 1 of the BAs.


----------



## Slater

cqtek said:


> For those who have purchased the ZS6 and want to trim treble, there are some Ostry tuning tips, the OS300 are the black ones, maybe can filter some treble peaks:
> 
> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/OSTR...108.1000016.1.15437274TukNpk&isOrigTitle=true
> 
> ...



Any idea why all of these cutoff well below 10k? Are they cutoff filters?

Because without knowing what effect it will have at 10k, it would just be taking a shot in the dark...


----------



## Slater

sghound said:


> one more thing of note, the zs6 is more picky on source and amping than the zs5v1.  feed it junk and the nasties will show up easily.  the zs5v1 is way more forgiving with lesser quality audio.



We all realize this is going to cause a lot of misleading opinions/reviews?


----------



## HiFiChris (Sep 29, 2017)

TheWongWrong said:


> I have to say, what is it that intrigues you to purchase something so low down the price bracket when you sport a pair of LCD-Xs?



The ZS6 I have is a review sample from GearBest, but even if I hadn't received it as a review sample, I would have bought it (but then probably with no/no detailed review coming from me), just as I have also bought several KZ and other inexpensive (Chi-Fi) IEMs in the past.

It's mainly the fun to experience some more and some less decent sounding budget IEMs. Sure, none of them serves for serious listening in my case, however I sometimes grab whatever floats my boat at the moment for casual listening in-between, casual listening on the go, fm radio listening, TV etc. Or just when something grabs my interest due to its specs, price, design, frequency response, or when I am curious and/or want to write about it because of that (else I would have never purchased and reviewed a $1.50 mp3 player in combination with my Triple.Fi 10 IEMs a few years ago).


----------



## JayceOoi

For those interested in ES3... GearBest is selling at $10.99 with this code - KZES3 now.
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_709295.html


----------



## HungryPanda

a fine deal indeed


----------



## vector84 (Sep 29, 2017)

Slater said:


> Any idea why all of these cutoff well below 10k? Are they cutoff filters?
> 
> Because without knowing what effect it will have at 10k, it would just be taking a shot in the dark...


I've been eyeing these for a while and wondering this too...
I came across some info about their construction a while back - they contain a brass ring (like a washer) at the end of the tip bore, and a filtering screen fitted in the hole in the brass ring.

I would tend to think there would be both a low pass and a damping effect from that?  But I think the low pass would be above 10kHz, maybe above audible even?
Acoustics is definitely not a subject I'm particularly well versed in though.

PS: for adventurous souls, you can find them on Amazon (with prime) too


----------



## trumpethead

Podster said:


> THX @wastan , I ordered my matte finish ZS3 right after they came out so I'm sure I have the SPECIAL pair Lucky me If I did not already have a plethora of iem's I would just order another pair but with my luck I'd get one of the first runs! At one time I was also wanting the shiny ones but the cable on mine turned me off and I never went through with it



I wanted one of the matte ones but after three orders they kept shipping the shiny so I gave up..


----------



## djmakemynight

WeixinLou said:


> Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum, though have been reading for the last... 8 years?
> 
> anyway, I wanted to post here to ask for advice on EQ for the KZ ZS5.
> 
> ...



Hello there, fellow TTPod T2 owner here.

TTPod T2 was my first hybrid until ZST. The build of it is great. The cable is slowly being invaded by green though. 

TTPod T2 is actually smoother as compared to ZST. ZST has a larger soundstage but sometimes I have to turn the volume down to avoid some harshness.

I also prefer the bass from the ZST as well. It's my daily driver at work now. Along with ED4, ATR and ATE-S.

Oh, I don't EQ any of my IEM/headphones. I prefer them stock if I can help it. Because I am lazy.


----------



## Podster (Sep 29, 2017)

trumpethead said:


> I wanted one of the matte ones but after three orders they kept shipping the shiny so I gave up..



So are/were all your shiny pairs with .75


----------



## Arkady Duntov

Saoshyant said:


> ZS6 is already for sale with Prime shipping?  Almost regret the gearbest purchase.



The listing says it's not scheduled to ship until October 3.


----------



## HungryPanda

I got notice my order for the ZS6 was shipped out today from GB


----------



## Saoshyant

Arkady Duntov said:


> The listing says it's not scheduled to ship until October 3.



Which is only a couple days off, instead of the long GB wait.


----------



## Podster

Ordered mine Aug. 31st via AliEx and here's my latest replies from seller after recent inquiry

Qin chen
17/09/28 09:02
The parcel is already in transit. It has passed the customs. You should receive it soon!







Qin chen 


17/09/28 09:02 




Because this is just from the factory. We have a little more time to prepare. Please understand.










THX Qin, I ordered 11 products off AliEx that same day and all are here with the exception of these! 



Me 


17/09/28 08:40 





Qin chen 


17/09/28 08:37 




Your friend package has been sent. Please rest assured. I will deal with it urgently


The perils of AliEx and that proverbial "Slow Boat from China" although the site always shows a plane My guess is he really did not have them in stock yet but was pre selling under the "I have them guise"!!


----------



## Ynot1

djmakemynight said:


> Hello there,
> 
> Oh, I don't EQ any of my IEM/headphones. I prefer them stock if I can help it. Because I am lazy.



If everyone had a MFi headphone, could happen if kz made them, then some developer would write an app to create a dedicate eq for each MFi headphone as well as eqing each song to the matching MFi headphones. In fact two eqing can be combined in the app. It would be where you set the eq once and listen for however often desired. People switching earphones in the future will be pretty common, I think.


----------



## TimeSnow

Good news! When I got home I realised that the package was actually my upgraded cable for my ZSTs!

Boy... I was really sceptical... And am not any more. Hot damn.

Increased resolution and extension both ways I think. Could be confirmation bias,  but I don't think so.


----------



## Podster

TimeSnow said:


> Good news! When I got home I realised that the package was actually my upgraded cable for my ZSTs!
> 
> Boy... I was really sceptical... And am not any more. Hot damn.
> 
> Increased resolution and extension both ways I think. Could be confirmation bias,  but I don't think so.



You get this one?


----------



## dbaker1981

Well been lurking on this page awhile. I have the ZS5 with the ZS6 on the way and I ordered the ZSE And ZS3 but when they came it was the ZS3 and the ZST. Anyone one in here have any experience with the ZST compared to the Bro’s by Nicehck? I don’t know if I should keep the zst or send it back. I have the bro’s.


----------



## TimeSnow

Podster said:


> You get this one?


Sadly no.... I just got the old fashioned KZ upgrade cable. The silver one.

If the other one ever pops up on Amazon I will buy it!


----------



## Podster (Sep 29, 2017)

dbaker1981 said:


> Well been lurking on this page awhile. I have the ZS5 with the ZS6 on the way and I ordered the ZSE And ZS3 but when they came it was the ZS3 and the ZST. Anyone one in here have any experience with the ZST compared to the Bro’s by Nicehck? I don’t know if I should keep the zst or send it back. I have the bro’s.



Well hoping you tell us the difference Bet they will still take those ZST's back if you test drive them I'll get flamed for this one but I still prefer the ZST to all my other KZ's and I have at least a dozen

@TimeSnow , this cable absolutely destroys the KZ upgrade you have as I bought a few of those and the crazy thing is they pretty much cost the same. Guess your not much for AliEx eh?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...3.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.270.TQbJva

Anyway after reading others post that it pretty much fit .75mm ZSe/ZST/ZS5 and 6 I ordered 3 more now mind you I put it on my ZS5 but they do not fully seat in the pocket but they do work. When mine come I may break out my flat files and get them to seat all the way.


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> I'll get flamed for this one but I still prefer the ZST to all my other KZ's and I have at least a dozen



Why would you get flamed for saying that?


----------



## Podster

peskypesky said:


> Why would you get flamed for saying that?



Maybe not then but it sure seems more like the ZS5 more? No? IMO the ZST is the best iem from KZ since the ED9 (Oh no he really went and done it now, flame on my brother KZ'ers)


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> Maybe not then but it sure seems more like the ZS5 more? No? IMO the ZST is the best iem from KZ since the ED9 (Oh no he really went and done it now, flame on my brother KZ'ers)



I love my ED9s...but I do prefer the ZS5s. 

I'm sure the ZST's sound good too. Why wouldn't they?


----------



## Podster

peskypesky said:


> I love my ED9s...but I do prefer the ZS5s.
> 
> I'm sure the ZST's sound good too. Why wouldn't they?



So is the ZS5s the new and improved double BA in the nozzle model? Thought I ordered those in the gray but got V1's again Should have waited until I saw the Gearbest buyers getting theirs!!!


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> So is the ZS5s the new and improved double BA in the nozzle model? Thought I ordered those in the gray but got V1's again Should have waited until I saw the Gearbest buyers getting theirs!!!


i have version1


----------



## Podster

peskypesky said:


> i have version1



So is that the ZS5s version? I have two but I still prefer my ZST over them but like most things out here YMMV


----------



## JonnyXDA

HiFiChris said:


> The ZS6 I have is a review sample from GearBest, but even if I hadn't received it as a review sample, I would have bought it (but then probably with no/no detailed review coming from me), just as I have also bought several KZ and other inexpensive (Chi-Fi) IEMs in the past.
> 
> It's mainly the fun to experience some more and some less decent sounding budget IEMs. Sure, none of them serves for serious listening in my case, however I sometimes grab whatever floats my boat at the moment for casual listening in-between, casual listening on the go, fm radio listening, TV etc. Or just when something grabs my interest due to its specs, price, design, frequency response, or when I am curious and/or want to write about it because of that (else I would have never purchased and reviewed a $1.50 mp3 player in combination with my Triple.Fi 10 IEMs a few years ago).


Next time it might be a wise idea to state they are review samples in the first place.  You had a lot of people worried here with your review yet the actual production product unit doesn't seem to support your review.

Review samples are in my experience often sent out before the final product unit, so there is time to make changes which it seems has happened here.


----------



## Holypal

Podster said:


> Well hoping you tell us the difference Bet they will still take those ZST's back if you test drive them I'll get flamed for this one but I still prefer the ZST to all my other KZ's and I have at least a dozen
> 
> @TimeSnow , this cable absolutely destroys the KZ upgrade you have as I bought a few of those and the crazy thing is they pretty much cost the same. Guess your not much for AliEx eh?
> 
> ...



I prefer the new cable, which draw less attention on the street.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lver-Plated-OFC-Cable-0-75mm/32833311374.html


----------



## Podster

Holypal said:


> I prefer the new cable, which draw less attention on the street.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lver-Plated-OFC-Cable-0-75mm/32833311374.html



LOL, I have one of those coming as well!


----------



## peskypesky

Holypal said:


> I prefer the new cable, which draw less attention on the street.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...lver-Plated-OFC-Cable-0-75mm/32833311374.html


I prefer the L-shaped plug. Less chance of damage to the socket.

I will not use straight plugs on portable devices.


----------



## TimeSnow

Podster said:


> Well hoping you tell us the difference Bet they will still take those ZST's back if you test drive them I'll get flamed for this one but I still prefer the ZST to all my other KZ's and I have at least a dozen
> 
> @TimeSnow , this cable absolutely destroys the KZ upgrade you have as I bought a few of those and the crazy thing is they pretty much cost the same. Guess your not much for AliEx eh?
> 
> ...



I'd love to get that, but no... No Aliexpress for me.

Is there a manufacturer on that cable? Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> So is the ZS5s the new and improved double BA in the nozzle model? Thought I ordered those in the gray but got V1's again Should have waited until I saw the Gearbest buyers getting theirs!!!



I would RATHER have another pair of v1 (with 1 BA in nozzle), NOT the v2 (with 2 BA in nozzle).

I have not ordered a backup pair because I can't be guaranteed that I'd receive the v1.

You say you ordered your v1 from Gearbest? In grey? Did it have the mic or no mic?


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> I would RATHER have another pair of v1 (with 1 BA in nozzle), NOT the v2 (with 2 BA in nozzle).
> 
> I have not ordered a backup pair because I can't be guaranteed that I'd receive the v1.
> 
> You say you ordered your v1 from Gearbest? In grey? Did it have the mic or no mic?



No, I ordered Aliex and got original V1 in gray. Gearbest is selling the new 2 BA nozzle model!


----------



## Wiljen (Sep 29, 2017)

I purchased some of the Ostry tips that were mentioned earlier in this thread from amazon so we will see how they do on the Zs6 here shortly.  Should have them Tuesday to try out.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/OSTR...108.1000016.1.15437274TukNpk&isOrigTitle=true


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Hey guys, newbie here. So... I uhhh, ordered the SPC V2 Cable for my ZS5. It was supposed to arrive yesterday but no luck sadly. I removed the memory wire from the stock wire and it's annoying because it gets loose and doesn't loop around my ear anymore. Does the new cable alleviate this? I'm also curious towards what effects it has on how the ZS5'S will sound, if any. Anyone?


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Love the ZS5's by the way, there's so much more of everything than all my other earphones for a low price.


----------



## Wiljen

Chances are the cable will make no difference in sound quality but will have a big impact on microphonics.  Some cables transmit vibration much more than others and this is translated into sound when it reaches the earpiece.   That is where cables are likely to make the most difference when talking about cables in this price range.


----------



## dbaker1981

Podster said:


> Well hoping you tell us the difference Bet they will still take those ZST's back if you test drive them I'll get flamed for this one but I still prefer the ZST to all my other KZ's and I have at least a dozen
> 
> @TimeSnow , this cable absolutely destroys the KZ upgrade you have as I bought a few of those and the crazy thing is they pretty much cost the same. Guess your not much for AliEx eh?
> 
> ...





After a quick A/B they seem to be the same except the Bros have Mmcx cables instead of 2 wire. The bros also seem to have a little more bass but that might be the different tips in play.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Saoshyant said:


> ZS6 is already for sale with Prime shipping?  Almost regret the gearbest purchase.


Wait what?


----------



## Fox2twenty

JayceOoi said:


> For those interested in ES3... GearBest is selling at $10.99 with this code - KZES3 now.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_709295.html


ES3 are great for added bass compared to zs5


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> Wait what?


----------



## NeonHD

Great news guys, my KZ HDS3 arrived in the mail today!






Can't wait to test them out 

Oh and I recommend anyone who is interested in these micro-drivers to buy them ASAP cause who knows when they'll run out.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Great news guys, my KZ HDS3 arrived in the mail today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good choice mate; I love the HDS3.

Let us know how you like them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Fox2twenty said:


> Wait what?



Yep. It's available. I'm really close to pulling the trigger but I'm really concerned by that damn treble spike.


----------



## HiFiChris

JonnyXDA said:


> Next time it might be a wise idea to state they are review samples in the first place. You had a lot of people worried here with your review yet the actual production product unit doesn't seem to support your review.



Sorry, but I have to disappoint you. It's not a review sample as in "model made only for reviewers and sent out earlier" (or especially spec'd press car that has sometimes extra stuff and insulation that aren't present in the regular production version), instead it is the regular model they have in stock and sent out for review. It is the same IEM as everybody else who ordered from GearBest would receive (it's really just a "regular" IEM from their warehouse - they did not hand-pick it at all and it was sent directly from their warehouse wherefore I also received a normal order confirmation and invoice inside the package (no special hand-packed and hand-processed package)). The reason I got it so fast is because GearBest chose to send it out with an express shipping company wherefore it showed up the next day.
If I had pre-ordered the ZS6 myself, I would have received a package from the very same batch.

In addition, I have not posted any review yet. Only my observations and impressions (that however already rely on comparative listening, measurements, critical listening and listening to white noise and sine sweeps, so it's the same process as for a regular review).

So well, _*it is*_ the actual production unit I received. And why would you say that the "actual production unit" doesn't support my impressions? There are reports from other people who found the same from the ZS6.

There is more I'd like to say but probably shouldn't.


----------



## TJK81 (Sep 30, 2017)

Podster said:


> So is the ZS5s the new and improved double BA in the nozzle model? Thought I ordered those in the gray but got V1's again Should have waited until I saw the Gearbest buyers getting theirs!!!


After couple of days i admit one particular thing. 2BA ZS5 are really treble canon (maybe NUKES). After longer listening sessions, lets say one hour, i found them very fatiguing. Even for me, who likes bright, shinny, crispy, analytical sound signature of K702. I think moving 2BA right in the noozle (the same models of the BA's) was not the best step the KZ's done to. They do not sound as they have to. After listening "Time" by Pink Floyd i said no... That is not the way. I immediately switch to ES3 and have been listening for another 3-4 hours... without any fatiguing. I really like ZS5's... But definitely not for long... Jesus... those piercing trebles. The only way to reduce them is using the foam tips. But you will lost the sparkling and clarity where they excel.
Iťs really difficult. Rev one are IMO badly designed (one BA drowned somewhere between DD's are not the place where they have to be), but two same BA in the nozzle is not correct in final sound. Maybe if KZ's moved the drowned BA from rev.1 to nozzle where is placed super tweeter, things were different.
But at the moment we will never knows.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Lindsey Stirling is still my favorite artist on the ZS5's.

The violin just soars across my consciousness.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yep. It's available. I'm really close to pulling the trigger but I'm really concerned by that damn treble spike.


Do eeet


----------



## tworule (Sep 30, 2017)

Podster said:


> Well hoping you tell us the difference Bet they will still take those ZST's back if you test drive them I'll get flamed for this one but I still prefer the ZST to all my other KZ's and I have at least a dozen
> 
> @TimeSnow , this cable absolutely destroys the KZ upgrade you have as I bought a few of those and the crazy thing is they pretty much cost the same. Guess your not much for AliEx eh?
> 
> ...


It says 0.78mm in description? Does it fit zs3 zs5 es3?


----------



## vector84 (Sep 30, 2017)

TJK81 said:


> That is not the way. I immediately switch to ES3 and have been listening for another 3-4 hours...  [...] Rev one are IMO badly designed (one BA drowned somewhere between DD's are not the place where they have to be)


...
This sort of thinking is exactly why we ended up with a rev2 that sounds like trash, just enjoy how it sounds, stop trying to be Mr. Technical if you don't know what's going on...

You enjoy the sound signature overall, as evidenced by your enjoyment of the ES3, but you still feel the need to ramble about the "bad design" ... why?


EDIT: So this feels to me like it comes off kind of like an attack and that's definitely *not* my intent... but I'm completely at a loss as to how to reword it to convey my point without sounding moderately hostile.  I'm just confused. I really just don't get it.

Now if you're one of those magical individuals that's actually taken one apart and reshelled it like you're suggesting and it sounds great... well I'd gladly bite my tongue and offer up a wholehearted apology, but armchair designers weighing in has gone pretty poorly thus far...


----------



## vector84 (Sep 30, 2017)

tworule said:


> It says 0.78mm in description? Does it fit zs3 zs5 es3?


So I don't own one, but my understanding is those cables should be available in 0.75mm too.

Someone else around here pointed out that 0.78mm cables are mostly for the Chinese local market, and there are actually a ton of them in addition to the 0.75mm cables that we see for the international market. So what I'm trying to say is if you don't check with NiceHCK first... don't be bummed if you end up with a 0.78mm 


They will fit the ZS3/ZS5/ES3, but need trimming to seat fully for ZS3/ZS5 - and once you fit a 0.78mm cable, if that's what it really is, you can't use stock 0.75mm unless you glue them in place (they will fall out after that, too loose).


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Wiljen said:


> Chances are the cable will make no difference in sound quality but will have a big impact on microphonics.  Some cables transmit vibration much more than others and this is translated into sound when it reaches the earpiece.   That is where cables are likely to make the most difference when talking about cables in this price range.


Oh, yes the microphonics is kind of an issue. I don't really mind it enough tho, i just ignore it. Can't wait to get the silver cable tho


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

TJK81 said:


> After couple of days i admit one particular thing. 2BA ZS5 are really treble canon (maybe NUKES). After longer listening sessions, lets say one hour, i found them very fatiguing. Even for me, who likes bright, shinny, crispy, analytical sound signature of K702. I think moving 2BA right in the noozle (the same models of the BA's) was not the best step the KZ's done to. They do not sound as they have to. After listening "Time" by Pink Floyd i said no... That is not the way. I immediately switch to ES3 and have been listening for another 3-4 hours... without any fatiguing. I really like ZS5's... But definitely not for long... Jesus... those piercing trebles. The only way to reduce them is using the foam tips. But you will lost the sparkling and clarity where they excel.
> Iťs really difficult. Rev one are IMO badly designed (one BA drowned somewhere between DD's are not the place where they have to be), but two same BA in the nozzle is not correct in final sound. Maybe if KZ's moved the drowned BA from rev.1 to nozzle where is placed super tweeter, things were different.
> But at the moment we will never knows.


The rev.1's still great by itself, it's got plenty of detail and sparkle (comparing to SHL3300 with brainwavz leather pads, HD 558 w/ foam mod, and everything else I've tried). I'm using the tips that came with Skullcandy Titans (large size) and they're way more comfortable than the black Starline tips, it sacrifices a bit of detail though.


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

The memory foam tips by KZ takes out too much detail imo tho, comfort difference is minor for me. It also gets stuck inside my ear at times.


----------



## HungryPanda

NeonHD said:


> Great news guys, my KZ HDS3 arrived in the mail today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just dug mine out of my iem drawer and dang these tiny things do sound good


----------



## Comebackboy

sghound said:


> ZS6 arrived via GB coupla days back.
> 
> great news, off da bat, NOT treble cannons.
> 
> ...



Worth the upgrade from ZS5v1? I currently have the ZS5 but I'm abit lazy and skeptical to buy the ZS6 if the improvement is minimal lol


----------



## tworule

Podster said:


> No, I ordered Aliex and got original V1 in gray. Gearbest is selling the new 2 BA nozzle model!


Which seller? Thanks


----------



## vector84

Looks like the KZ Official Store has an alternate design ZSE for sale now - one with a red grille that looks just like the QKZ KD8.


----------



## sghound

Comebackboy said:


> Worth the upgrade from ZS5v1? I currently have the ZS5 but I'm abit lazy and skeptical to buy the ZS6 if the improvement is minimal lol



I'd be happy with the v1


----------



## TJK81 (Sep 30, 2017)

vector84 said:


> ...
> This sort of thinking is exactly why we ended up with a rev2 that sounds like trash, just enjoy how it sounds, stop trying to be Mr. Technical if you don't know what's going on...
> 
> You enjoy the sound signature overall, as evidenced by your enjoyment of the ES3, but you still feel the need to ramble about the "bad design" ... why?
> ...



No, you didn't get the point i meant. i meant, despite of the contstruction of the rev.1, i assume the sounds different (maybe less harsh). I'm thinking about different thing. IMO KZ's doing earphones without any (or a very little) research and development (yeah i know... they are Chinese... they cannot do R&D). This is the case of the ZS5's. They just provide ZS5 rev2 without R&D and moving 2 same BA into the nozzle, without knowing what it causes with the final results in the sound.
But i like my rev.2 with foamies. They are listenable in long sessions now. And they are still my preferable iems.
PS: and yes... I'm technician


----------



## vector84

TJK81 said:


> No you didn't get the point i mean. i meant, despite of the contstruction of the rev.1, i assume the sounds different (maybe less harsh). I'm thinking about different thing. IMO KZ's doing earphones without any (or a very little) research and development (yeah i know... they are Chinese... they cannot do R&D). This is the case of the ZS5's. They just provide ZS5 rev2 without R&D and moving 2 same BA into the nozzle, without knowing what it causes with the final results in the sound.
> But i like my rev.2 with foamies. They are listenable in long sessions now. And they are still my preferable iems.


As this thread just finished covering once again, KZ is headed by an ex Audio Technica engineer... that's pretty presumptuous of you imo... 

Personally I feel they gave people expressing opinions just like yours what they wanted, to sell more crap to foreigners, and what it sounds like be damned.


----------



## HungryPanda

QKZ KD8 on the left, KZ ZSE on the right


----------



## VinceHill24

Rev2 is probably just a desperate move to address the 2 drivers "not working" as claimed by no idea which YouTube reviewer IMO and it sounded like they were out of any other cost effective options besides moving the BA into the nozzle and changing the BA driver used yet able to maintain their production line without major compromise to overall production.

Of course it's supposed to be a more responsible revision by dropping in more R&D in restructuring the internal cavity but they simply didn't have enough budget for that i believe and it would probably compromise their other products R&D too.

For the price that i'm paying, i don't really care much about any R&D nor any cutting edge tech, as long as it sounds great to my ears then it'll be good enough.

And ya..  i don't think they can just move the BA in the body of ZS5 Rev1 into the nozzle for Rev2 too coz it'd probably be too big to fit within.


----------



## TJK81

vector84 said:


> As this thread just finished covering once again, KZ is headed by an ex Audio Technica engineer... that's pretty presumptuous of you imo...
> 
> Personally I feel they gave people expressing opinions just like yours what they wanted, to sell more crap to foreigners, and what it sounds like be damned.



I'm really grateful to KZ's. Thanks to them i have earphones for 20bucks which sounds like 100+ premium quality Shure, Senns, Westones or Fenders and CA's. BTW Audo Technica is not some pioneers. They made couple of not good headphones (for example M70x's).


----------



## vector84

Here's an interesting aside related to those very weird specs sheets posted a few pages back... Star Micronics was known once upon a time for producing extremely low cost balanced armatures - Etymotics used them in some long ago discontinued products. Star Micronics sold off their audio division to Foster, but their BAs seem to have largely disappeared since then. 


KZ is certainly pioneering low cost balanced armatures in the current era, considering you can get entire earphone sets for less than the cost of a Knowles driver...


----------



## HungryPanda

vector84 said:


> Here's an interesting aside related to those very weird specs sheets posted a few pages back... Star Micronics was known once upon a time for producing extremely low cost balanced armatures - Etymotics used them in some long ago discontinued products. Star Micronics sold off their audio division to Foster, but their BAs seem to have largely disappeared since then.
> 
> 
> KZ is certainly pioneering low cost balanced armatures in the current era, considering you can get entire earphone sets for less than the cost of a Knowles driver...



Yes good times in the earphone world indeed


----------



## Fox2twenty

HungryPanda said:


> Yes good times in the earphone world indeed


Indeed. The ZS5 is incredible, especially for the price.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> QKZ KD8 on the left, KZ ZSE on the right



I assume they have identical sound, with the only difference being the style of grille on the back?


----------



## Wiljen

The treble spike seems to respond real well to EQ and backing the 10kHz off by 8db and the 8kHz off by 6 on my DAP is making the Zs6 entirely listenable without mods to the phone.  Got a set of the ostry sound shaping tips coming to test those as I think the black os-300 may be just the ticket as it looks to be about a 6-8db drop in that range.

Once that spike is adjusted for, the Zs6 has great bass control, good extension, and more micro detail than you'd expect so I think they are worth tuning on to get a sound signature you like.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> I assume they have identical sound, with the only difference being the style of grille on the back?



Hard to tell from the outside.  Possible that the drivers are 100% the same or 100% different as that would be completely internal and almost impossible to guess by looking anyway as most look very similar.  Only way to be sure is to listen and measure.


----------



## vector84

It would make sense that they might sound the same since KZ's official store is now selling a ZSE "new look" that looks identical to the QKZ KD8... but logical sense need not always apply when dealing with Chi-Fi


----------



## HungryPanda

I cannot detect much sound variation at all


----------



## Comebackboy

Can't lie, I am still quite tempted to get myself the ZS6 just for collection, even if it doesn't sound as good as the ZS5. The black model looks sexy as hell. Sigh, I think I'll wait for more reviews as currently it seems quite mixed. Or maybe I'll just wait for KZ's next step-up release


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Is there a way to know if you have the v1 vs v2? I got mine on Amazon not that long ago and I admit heavily that they don't seem like treble cannons at all.


----------



## fuzun (Sep 30, 2017)

Which budget *cable*, sillicone&foam *tips *and *case *do you recommend for KZ ZS6 (ZS5) ?

Do newer silver cables really oxidize? Is Wooeast cable any good?
Do you recommend Spinfits ?

Do you recommend this case?:


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Comebackboy said:


> Can't lie, I am still quite tempted to get myself the ZS6 just for collection, even if it doesn't sound as good as the ZS5. The black model looks sexy as hell. Sigh, I think I'll wait for more reviews as currently it seems quite mixed. Or maybe I'll just wait for KZ's next step-up release



I admit the metal construction is a big factor in me getting the 6. I love the 5 (and listen to them often despite having the P1 and Quad) but that plastic shell is ugh.


----------



## Wiljen

on the Zs5, V1 has a single Ba in the nozzle which can be seen as single silver ring in the nozzle when you shine a light in it.  V2 has both BA in the nozzle so the same trick will show 2 silver rings in the nose.


----------



## Comebackboy

SomeGuyDude said:


> I admit the metal construction is a big factor in me getting the 6. I love the 5 (and listen to them often despite having the P1 and Quad) but that plastic shell is ugh.


Ikr man the metal construction plus the colours. Hell, even the red one looks good. I just feel that I might regret purchasing the ZS6 later on haha


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wiljen said:


> on the Zs5, V1 has a single Ba in the nozzle which can be seen as single silver ring in the nozzle when you shine a light in it.  V2 has both BA in the nozzle so the same trick will show 2 silver rings in the nose.



Hm. I don't feel like dismantling them, the grill is in the way so I can't see anything.



Comebackboy said:


> Ikr man the metal construction plus the colours. Hell, even the red one looks good. I just feel that I might regret purchasing the ZS6 later on haha



At that price, it's too cheap to regret.


----------



## Wiljen

fuzun said:


> Which budget *cable*, sillicone&foam *tips *and *case *do you recommend for KZ ZS6 (ZS5) ?
> 
> Do newer silver cables really oxidize? Is Wooeast cable any good?
> Do you recommend Spinfits ?
> ...



That case may be too small for the Zs6 with the cables attached, especially if you use after-market cables.   

I prefer these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074H8Y76X/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 for cables as they dont tend to kink up and tangle and they seem well made.

On tips, I am a bigger fan of the spiral dots than the spin fits.  I also really like the Comply tips for foams.


----------



## Comebackboy

SomeGuyDude said:


> At that price, it's too cheap to regret.


Hahaha I'm a student on a tight budget so I've gotta work my sums right! But yes, if I didn't have a budget I would just cop these immediately haha


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Comebackboy said:


> Hahaha I'm a student on a tight budget so I've gotta work my sums right! But yes, if I didn't have a budget I would just cop these immediately haha



I'd wager if money is tight the difference isn't enough to warrant the purchase. It's still 2+2 and I'm thinking the shell is the main difference with the venting.


----------



## Comebackboy

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'd wager if money is tight the difference isn't enough to warrant the purchase. It's still 2+2 and I'm thinking the shell is the main difference with the venting.


Yeah that's what's stopping me from buying the ZS6. I would figure the difference in terms of sound is not too noticeable, and I can live with the ZS5 plastic shell. Unless I can sell my ZS5, otherwise I don't think it would be worth it


----------



## fuzun (Sep 30, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> That case may be too small for the Zs6 with the cables attached, especially if you use after-market cables.
> 
> I prefer these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074H8Y76X/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 for cables as they dont tend to kink up and tangle and they seem well made.
> 
> On tips, I am a bigger fan of the spiral dots than the spin fits.  I also really like the Comply tips for foams.



I also prefer that by look but some reported that it oxidizes and become green. I certainly would not want that. And they are listed as for "ZST" how is that compatible with zs5?

Spiral dots and Comply tips are not available on Chinese sites where I can buy them cheap. Besides, Comply tips are also too expensive on their own.

What case do you prefer for pockets of standard sized jeans? Hard KZ cases look like too big to fit.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Hm. I don't feel like dismantling them, the grill is in the way so I can't see anything.


If you're trying to use a flashlight or similar, try positioning it farther away, or try different lighting conditions - good ol' sunlight can work well.  Also try moving around a bit and holding them a bit further away - like looking through a picket fence as you walk by, you should be able to catch a glimpse of a distinct circle (or pair of them) on the other side of the mesh without removing it.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Sep 30, 2017)

vector84 said:


> If you're trying to use a flashlight or similar, try positioning it farther away, or try different lighting conditions - good ol' sunlight can work well.  Also try moving around a bit and holding them a bit further away - like looking through a picket fence as you walk by, you should be able to catch a glimpse of a distinct circle (or pair of them) on the other side of the mesh without removing it.



Looks like I got a V1. Definitely has me curious to snag the 6 now.

EDIT: Update. Bought the 6. It'll be here Wednesday.


----------



## Superluc (Sep 30, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> I purchased some of the Ostry tips that were mentioned earlier in this thread from amazon so we will see how they do on the Zs6 here shortly.  Should have them Tuesday to try out.


Witch one ? The OS100 seem to take away 2dB from the peak on that graph and only over 8.5k-9kHz, but the OS300 seem to cut off everything, and affecting clarity.

See this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ven...-performance-iem.777138/page-27#post-11888201
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/introducing-trinity-audio-engineering.760277/page-162#post-11975991

Maybe the OS100 can be helpful on tame the treble a little, otherwise mod the BAs on ZS6 seem a better choice, on treble cannon batch.


----------



## eaglesgift

I ordered a second pair of ZS5s from Gearbest on 14th September and they just arrived today: Grey, no mike, definitely version two. I can't get them to show up in pictures but I can see two narrow strips, for want of a better word, in the nozzle, whereas I can only see one with my original blue ones. They're nothing like treble cannons to me and I would say they reolve a bit better than the originals. It's not a huge difference but it is noticeable (unless my brain is playing tricks on me of course). Listening to Back in Black, the cymbals are crisper and the snare drum has more impact. Seem to have plenty of bass too, whereas with the originals I kept taping off the vents to get more bass (then taking off the tape because I hate driver flex, then putting it back on again because I felt the bass was lacking).

I also got the ES3s and ZSEs. Not sure what I think of the ES3s yet although they sound fine. Unfortunately the right side of the ZSE is defective - almost no sound coming out - so I've requested a replacement. Does anybody know if Gearbest will insist I send the defective pair back and if so, will they refund the shipping?


----------



## Superluc (Sep 30, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> Does anybody know if Gearbest will insist I send the defective pair back and if so, will they refund the shipping?


On cheap stuff they normally send another pair for free, without send back the broken, or at least it's what happen to me, the time i have received a defective pair.


----------



## hakuzen

es3 and first zs5 arrived. bought it at gearbest on september the 7th, gray without mic, exactly after seeing the pic of one with 2 BAs in the nozzle, which was purchased at gb (gray without mic).
well, mine is v1. at certain light, i could see two small circles, but after waiting for the proper light, found that there is only 1 ba at the nozzle; the two circles were the shoulders of the ba, with the ba tube between them.
zs6 is near to arrive, and also a second try of zs5 (i'd wish it is v2, just to compare their measurements; if isn't, i'll have an spare v1 pair), and my "pro" rig will be ready to measure all them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

hakuzen said:


> es3 and first zs5 arrived. bought it at gearbest on september the 7th, gray without mic, exactly after seeing the pic of one with 2 BAs in the nozzle, which was purchased at gb (gray without mic).
> well, mine is v1. at certain light, i could see two small circles, but after waiting for the proper light, found that there is only 1 ba at the nozzle; the two circles were the shoulders of the ba, with the ba tube between them.
> zs6 is near to arrive, and also a second try of zs5 (i'd wish it is v2, just to compare their measurements; if isn't, i'll have an spare v1 pair), and my "pro" rig will be ready to measure all them.



I'm definitely concerned that if the 2nd BA in the nozzle spikes the treble the ZS6 might lose a lot of the fun of the sound, but we'll see when it arrives on Wednesday.


----------



## Slater

fuzun said:


> Which budget *cable*, sillicone&foam *tips *and *case *do you recommend for KZ ZS6 (ZS5) ?
> 
> Do newer silver cables really oxidize? Is Wooeast cable any good?
> Do you recommend Spinfits ?
> ...



I recommend that case - they are great and I have quite a few of them. Most don’t have the KZ logo anymore though, but it’s still the same case.

Most KZ silver cables turn green. It doesn’t hurt anything though.

I’m not really a fan of Spinfits. Haven’t really found an IEM where they’re superior to any of my other tips. But certainly give them a try, because there are people that like them so YMMV.

As far as the cable seller you mentioned, they are banned from HeadFi - there’s a lot of other sellers to choose from.

Good luck!


----------



## TJK81 (Sep 30, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> I ordered a second pair of ZS5s from Gearbest on 14th September and they just arrived today: Grey, no mike, definitely version two. I can't get them to show up in pictures but I can see two narrow strips, for want of a better word, in the nozzle, whereas I can only see one with my original blue ones. They're nothing like treble cannons to me and I would say they reolve a bit better than the originals. It's not a huge difference but it is noticeable (unless my brain is playing tricks on me of course). Listening to Back in Black, the cymbals are crisper and the snare drum has more impact. Seem to have plenty of bass too, whereas with the originals I kept taping off the vents to get more bass (then taking off the tape because I hate driver flex, then putting it back on again because I felt the bass was lacking).
> 
> I also got the ES3s and ZSEs. Not sure what I think of the ES3s yet although they sound fine. Unfortunately the right side of the ZSE is defective - almost no sound coming out - so I've requested a replacement. Does anybody know if Gearbest will insist I send the defective pair back and if so, will they refund the shipping?



What tips did you use on your ZS5 rev.2? Foam tips?


----------



## vladstef

Like it wasn't confusing enough... It appears that ZS5 v2 and ZS6 had some issues in the treble which might have been resolved in some later batches? What a crazy bunch of QC issues, this is not really acceptable in this 40-50$ price range if you ask me. Think about what you're getting in the box, which is to say almost unusable rubbery cable and no case, one type of tips and that's it? There are oh so many IEMs in this price range that do all of those things so much better including QC and comparable sound quality. This sounds very negative but I am just being realistic, the value of KZ flagship is compromised due to some sloppy work all around. I hope for the best when it comes to KZ, but they need to step it up, or return to <20$ price range...


----------



## TimeSnow

So my wife likes those free ED12s I got. I only just opened the box as I thought I might have to return them.

Pleasantly surprised they were different colours!

They... Well... I prefer the ZSTs and ZS3s.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vladstef said:


> Like it wasn't confusing enough... It appears that ZS5 v2 and ZS6 had some issues in the treble which might have been resolved in some later batches? What a crazy bunch of QC issues, this is not really acceptable in this 40-50$ price range if you ask me. Think about what you're getting in the box, which is to say almost unusable rubbery cable and no case, one type of tips and that's it? There are oh so many IEMs in this price range that do all of those things so much better including QC and comparable sound quality. This sounds very negative but I am just being realistic, the value of KZ flagship is compromised due to some sloppy work all around. I hope for the best when it comes to KZ, but they need to step it up, or return to <20$ price range...



The cable doesn't bother me. I also dislike this idea that "not accept at this price range." Forty bucks is basically pocket change in this hobby. 

Now, I'm definitely a bit alarmed at these QC issues. If it's true the first batch of ZS6 had treble issues, I'm going to see what happens with mine, because I rather like the balance on the 5 v1. If the 6 is a treble cannon like that one graph I saw, I might just give the things away.


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> with the originals I kept taping off the vents to get more bass (then taking off the tape because I hate driver flex, then putting it back on again because I felt the bass was lacking).


You get driver flex just taping the back vent?  Do the side vents get completely covered when you're using them?

Just curious because I've played with a lot of tape all over my ZS5s for various reasons and I've never gotten flex unless I completely closed every vent...


----------



## vladstef

SomeGuyDude said:


> The cable doesn't bother me. I also dislike this idea that "not accept at this price range." Forty bucks is basically pocket change in this hobby.
> 
> Now, I'm definitely a bit alarmed at these QC issues. If it's true the first batch of ZS6 had treble issues, I'm going to see what happens with mine, because I rather like the balance on the 5 v1. If the 6 is a treble cannon like that one graph I saw, I might just give the things away.



Yeah, they are in a budget segment, but this is not what it used to be. Compared to others 'in the price range', they are on the bad side of things. The only thing that should've been a saving grace was the sound, and so far it looks way too messy to tell definitively. They only thing we know is that there were at least some units which were bad.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vladstef said:


> Yeah, they are in a budget segment, but this is not what it used to be. Compared to others 'in the price range', they are on the bad side of things. The only thing that should've been a saving grace was the sound, and so far it looks way too messy to tell definitively. They only thing we know is that there were at least some units which were bad.



That's my main thing. If the guts on the IEM are good, then maybe they kept it cheap by not giving it a fancy case or cable. Considering with most brands $100 is basically the entry fee I think some cheap aspects are a-okay.

The ZS5 knocked it out of the park, so we'll see what the 6 is like once I get it.


----------



## eaglesgift

TJK81 said:


> What tips did you use on your ZS5 rev.2? Foam tips?


No. I'm using the large tips that came with it. I really can't get on with foam tips these days.


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> You get driver flex just taping the back vent?  Do the side vents get completely covered when you're using them?
> 
> Just curious because I've played with a lot of tape all over my ZS5s for various reasons and I've never gotten flex unless I completely closed every vent...


Blocking the small holes that is on the same side of the shell as the nozzle, yes. It creates a vacuum effect in my ears - if it isn't driver flex then it's my ears crackling like mad. Either way, I'm not a big fan of the sensation!


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 30, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> es3 and first zs5 arrived. bought it at gearbest on september the 7th, gray without mic, exactly after seeing the pic of one with 2 BAs in the nozzle, which was purchased at gb (gray without mic).
> well, mine is v1. at certain light, i could see two small circles, but after waiting for the proper light, found that there is only 1 ba at the nozzle; the two circles were the shoulders of the ba, with the ba tube between them.
> zs6 is near to arrive, and also a second try of zs5 (i'd wish it is v2, just to compare their measurements; if isn't, i'll have an spare v1 pair), and my "pro" rig will be ready to measure all them.


I'd better check mine again then - I would swear they sound better but perhaps I'm just seeing the shoulders of the BA too.

EDIT: No - definitely 2 circles - they are on either side of the nozzle. If they were the shoulders of a single BA, that BA would be filling the whole nozzle.


----------



## fuzun

vladstef said:


> Like it wasn't confusing enough... It appears that ZS5 v2 and ZS6 had some issues in the treble which might have been resolved in some later batches? What a crazy bunch of QC issues, this is not really acceptable in this 40-50$ price range if you ask me. Think about what you're getting in the box, which is to say almost unusable rubbery cable and no case, one type of tips and that's it? There are oh so many IEMs in this price range that do all of those things so much better including QC and comparable sound quality. This sounds very negative but I am just being realistic, the value of KZ flagship is compromised due to some sloppy work all around. I hope for the best when it comes to KZ, but they need to step it up, or return to <20$ price range...


If you remember, when the ZST first released it was very bad. Everybody bought it said that they were bad.

Then after 1 month KZ adjusted them and ZST stayed the best until zs5.

I am sure zs6 will be fixed. But you are right, these should not be happened even at these price range.


I think ZS6 will be the best till ZS10 arrives.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Ladies and Gentlemen:
Vidal's estimable website, http://www.aproear.co.uk/, has been reworked and now includes music selections. do us the kindness of viewing and offering your criticisms, constructive, snarky or otherwise,


----------



## Podster

tworule said:


> Which seller? Thanks



@tworule , I know their page says the newest ZS5 but I got V1's when I ordered the gray no mic recently (Aug.31st)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32813987238.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.yFPtZl


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> Blocking the small holes that is on the same side of the shell as the nozzle, yes. It creates a vacuum effect in my ears - if it isn't driver flex then it's my ears crackling like mad. Either way, I'm not a big fan of the sensation!


That totally sounds like flex and I wasn't doubting that part.

Well, messing around with some tape and oversized tips to get an excessively tight fit and I can get a bit of flex on some of mine, and a bit more if I specifically try to cause it, but really only if I try to explicitly cause it. If I block the side vents it becomes quite easy to cause and quite obnoxious however.

I'm curious if it happens on both of your sets or just one?  I was thinking clogged vents, but maybe your fit is just more prone to it than mine.


Anyhow, if you take a pin and punch a tiny (*tiny!*) hole in the tape (make sure to just poke through the tape, not the mesh underneath!) it should relieve the flex without decreasing the bass by too much.


----------



## eaglesgift (Sep 30, 2017)

vector84 said:


> That totally sounds like flex and I wasn't doubting that part.
> 
> Well, messing around with some tape and oversized tips to get an excessively tight fit and I can get a bit of flex on some of mine, and a bit more if I specifically try to cause it, but really only if I try to explicitly cause it. If I block the side vents it becomes quite easy to cause and quite obnoxious however.
> 
> ...


OK, thanks. I'll give it a try. It's on both sides but worse on the left. It's probably due to my ear shape/size as all IEMs tend to be slightly looser in the right side than the left. I normally have to push them in a little more firmly to get the right fit.


----------



## Shadowsora

Brain burn in or not I find the treble manageable at last.
ZS5 are good.

Waiting for my cables and ZS6!


----------



## jaydm99 (Sep 30, 2017)

fuzun said:


> Which budget *cable*, sillicone&foam *tips *and *case *do you recommend for KZ ZS6 (ZS5) ?
> 
> Do newer silver cables really oxidize? Is Wooeast cable any good?
> Do you recommend Spinfits ?
> ...


IMO, the best case is the KZ Hard case. Those square ones seems too small for KZ IEMs, especially for the models with detachable cable.

I got the KZ hard case from ebay for just $1.6. It's the best value for money. And you can put the IEM mold from the factory packaging inside this case (you have to cut it, obviously )


----------



## Holypal

Jay Magaling said:


> IMO, the best case is the KZ Hard case. Those square ones seems to small for KZ IEMs, especially for the models with detachable cable.
> 
> I got the KZ hard case from ebay for just $1.6. It's the best value for money. And you can put the IEM mold from the factory packaging inside this case (you have to cut it, obviously )



Good idea. It might be possible to cut more, so that the cable doesn't have to be detached.


----------



## Thomas De Brito

pretty nice deal for the case ^^ going to buy a few


----------



## jaydm99

Holypal said:


> Good idea. It might be possible to cut more, so that the cable doesn't have to be detached.


You can. But even without extra trimming, it still fits even when the IEMs are connected.

We can probably put 2 pairs in this one with the IEM molds, as long as they share the same cable so that you wont have to carry an extra. Like ZS3/ZS5.


----------



## NeonHD (Sep 30, 2017)

Slater said:


> Let us know how you like them.



*So this my first impressions/review of the HDS3: *For $6 they sound pretty good and feel very good in the ears, I can't believe how lightweight they are compared to my other IEMs. Overall sound is leaning towards a neutral/balanced and laidback signature, and it seems like there is no particular emphasis on any frequency. Treble is kind of laid back but with more emphasis on the upper highs making it sound very light and airy, you can even hear some tiny micro-detail in the highs. The mids are smooth and neutral and don't possess too much detail in them, kind of similar to the ED9. I also did a little mod where I put the foam filters from the Sony MH1C into the nozzles of HDS3, and by doing that it drastically increased the bass and I think it even widened the soundstage. Speaking about soundstage, unlike some other review I read on Amazon, it overall sounds a bit congested and not at all "3D" as they've claimed. Both my ATE-S and ED9 produce noticeably wider and "out-of-your-head" soundstages than the HDS3. This also means that overall imaging, instrument layering and separation, and resolution is not that impressive compared to the ATE-S and ED9. I simply could not "visualize" my songs as I could with the former IEMs.

With that being said, I believe the HDS3 rather excels in being the least-fatiguing IEM in regards to both the sound signature and comfort. I swear there is not even a single hint of sibilance, harshness, and shrill to be found in the high-mids or in the treble, which is usually the case for most forward sounding IEMs. So while I don't picture them as my daily driver, I think they'll be great for listening to music in bed (cause they're so tiny so they won't be pressing hard against my pillow) or for times when I don't desire an energetic or forward sound signature.

In summary, the KZ HDS3 is actually a very good micro-driver IEM for people who want a laidback and relaxed sound signature which would be great for long-listening sessions.

BTW a few days ago I actually received my Remax 565i—another budget micro-driver— and the HDS3 absolutely blows the 565i out of the water. The Remax 565i sounded kind of unnatural without EQ, and the treble sounded somewhat coarse, grainy and unrefined compared to the light airy highs of the HDS3. And in addition the 565i actually costs 2x more than the HDS3 so I'd just go for the HDS3.


----------



## Podster

Jay Magaling said:


> You can. But even without extra trimming, it still fits even when the IEMs are connected.
> 
> We can probably put 2 pairs in this one with the IEM molds, as long as they share the same cable so that you wont have to carry an extra. Like ZS3/ZS5.



That is a good idea Jay but for me that case is too large for my liking and I actually get two pair in these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...1.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.318.vYa6IC price is awesome as well but I've ordered more because two in one case is packing it but one pair is perfect


----------



## SomeGuyDude

eaglesgift said:


> I'd better check mine again then - I would swear they sound better but perhaps I'm just seeing the shoulders of the BA too.
> 
> EDIT: No - definitely 2 circles - they are on either side of the nozzle. If they were the shoulders of a single BA, that BA would be filling the whole nozzle.



Would it fill the whole thing? Because it seems like I'm only seeing one off to the side. Then again I'm trying to look through the mesh. I got a feeling it might be the v2 if that's the case.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Would it fill the whole thing? Because it seems like I'm only seeing one off to the side. Then again I'm trying to look through the mesh. I got a feeling it might be the v2 if that's the case.


Kinda sounds more like a v1:




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1406#post-13712449




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1411#post-13715111



v2:




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1442#post-13726107




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1470#post-13744303


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Ah okay, cool. Thank you, I got a v1. 

Gonna make the ZS6 adventure really interesting...


----------



## thejoker13

acia said:


> such an insult to compare zs6 with 215.
> 
> zs5 with everything stock alone can put 315 and 215 to the bin.


Your comment is proof that sound truly is subjective. I have the zs5 and 315 and to me, the zs5 are not even in the same ballpark as the 315. I think people want a cheap earphone that competes with the big boys, and so they make ridiculously positive comments hoping that if they say it often enough it'll become reality. I'm glad you found a 20 dollar earphone that makes you happy, but obviously your opinion is just that, an opinion and is definitely not based on fact. Anyways, I'm not trying to start an argument, but just trying to keep things in perspective.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 1, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Would it fill the whole thing? Because it seems like I'm only seeing one off to the side. Then again I'm trying to look through the mesh. I got a feeling it might be the v2 if that's the case.


No, that's what I was saying really. I must have two because it's not plausible that one would fill the nozzle. Having looked at vector84's pictures, my grey ones are definitely v2.

I really like v2 but judging by my experiences with other IEMs, I'm pretty sure that I'm not treble sensitive so they may not be everybody's cup of tea.

I'm really liking the ES3s too.


----------



## maxxevv

thejoker13 said:


> Your comment is proof that sound truly is subjective. I have the zs5 and 315 and to me, the zs5 are not even in the same ballpark as the 315. I think people want a cheap earphone that competes with the big boys, and so they make ridiculously positive comments hoping that if they say it often enough it'll become reality. I'm glad you found a 20 dollar earphone that makes you happy, but obviously your opinion is just that, an opinion and is definitely not based on fact. Anyways, I'm not trying to start an argument, but just trying to keep things in perspective.



Likewise, your comments too are proof that its completely subjective.  

Not referring to you, (my apologies if it sounds that way) but generally, when comparing earphone sound quality / sound signature of any sort, kindly please state what exactly you're referring to and comparing to and your audio source as well as genre of music / specific track you compare them to. Else there really is no basis to compare. Much less the subjectively different perception of audio everyone has.

Case in point, the ZSE.  I've highlighted many times on this thread that its highly source sensitive and as one or two have highlighted, the ZS5 as well.   
The ZSE sounds really good with really smooth, effortless bass that's not boomy and that it has some sparkle in the treble highlights though overall sounding warm in signature.  That was on my LG G6.  
The same earphones played back on my computer laptop jack sounds very different even with the exact same playlist, mushy in the bass and doesn't have the sparkle in the treble highlights either. From warm, it sounded somewhat 'veiled' instead. I would expect the ZS5 to be similarly (although maybe differently) affected by source too. 
The ZSE at its best was simply wonderful for energetic pop tracks such as U2 and some of the acoustic vocals such as Sarah Mclachlan and Diana Krall. It even sounds quite musical in some Mozart pieces In many dance / trance / house tracks like Deep Dish and Ministry of Sound tracks it sounds pretty good too.  Not so much on some very complicated dance tracks that had like multitudes of sounds meshed into them. 

But once it goes into really complicated pieces like a full blown Beethoven's No.9, or the 1812 its lack of resolution in musical separation becomes apparent, as the whole sound gets really congested. Not good at all in those instances of music reproduction.  

So if I were strictly listening to just the pop stuff, the ZSE would be "Best Buy" of the year!  But taken as a whole it clearly isn't. 

I see that you're using the V20, which generally is a little more bass biased.  The ZS5 is in itself a little bass biased after I tested them with my friend's pair on my G6 ( which when compared to the V20 is generally considered more neutral with less bass.)  A bass biased source playing back a bass biased earphone isn't the best case scenario IMO for good sound reproduction either.  

Would love to hear why do you say the ZS5 is poor compared to the SE315. Especially in the context of the music you listen to and the volumes you play them at. And a little bit of the background environment when you auditioned them will help immensely too.  

Thanks.


----------



## chinmie

anybody compared the ZSE  to the ATR yet? if they have similar tuning but improve on the ATR, i might try them. 

i purchased the ZS5 with silver cable yesterday. it was good, but the treble is over exaggerated in volume (although i didn't find them sibilant or harsh).the also seems to exaggerate their soundstage because of it. i prefer the more natural tuning of the Urbanfun Hifi compared to the more expressive ZS5. if the turn down the treble output a bit without dampening the freq, the ZS5 would have been a great iem.


----------



## Darthplagueis

Don't want to use a bare hand stirring the beehive, but does anyone know anything about that 10 driver KZ project which was on everyone's mouth a few months ago? What happened to it? Is it still alive? Am I waiting on false hopes by skipping ZS6?

The awful confusion regarding ZS 5 V1/V2 /ZS 6 is just fatiguing to me actually. And I wanted to make the jump on next flagship by KZ


----------



## acia

maxxevv said:


> Likewise, your comments too are proof that its completely subjective.
> 
> Not referring to you, (my apologies if it sounds that way) but generally, when comparing earphone sound quality / sound signature of any sort, kindly please state what exactly you're referring to and comparing to and your audio source as well as genre of music / specific track you compare them to. Else there really is no basis to compare. Much less the subjectively different perception of audio everyone has.
> 
> ...


The zs6 is fabulous to listen to "lcd Soundsystem"

Retiring all stocks of zs5.

As for 315, personal bias so be it, belongs to the bin.  

215 already sold.


----------



## acia

Zs6 also good to listen to "the king's singers"


----------



## tworule

Podster said:


> @tworule , I know their page says the newest ZS5 but I got V1's when I ordered the gray no mic recently (Aug.31st)
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32813987238.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.yFPtZl


Thanks I am a bass head so v1 seems better. Just received zs3. Had problems with fit. My first overhead Iem. Then find out ciem technique. Now my ear does not hurt  I like the sound of zs3. I am no audiophile so I can't describe it


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 1, 2017)

ZS3's are good earbuds with phenomenal fit (for me). I wish KZ's produce hybrid earbuds without any cable with shape of the ZS3.


----------



## TJK81

Just listening Oasis's Definitely maybe (Japan, MiniLPCD, EICP-690) on my ZS5's. Sound so screw*ng good.


----------



## Saoshyant

@maxxevv For reference which G6 are you using as there are two quite differently capable versions when it comes to audio, as not all have quad dac.


----------



## TJK81

Guys, is there any chance to get L-shaped 2pin connector for ZS5's. I've got, with razor blade cuted, L-shape 2pin cabel from ES3's to fit the ZS5's and it is not looks much good. Straight 2pins connector do not fit my ears properly.
Thanks.


----------



## CoiL

Shadowsora said:


> Brain burn in or not I find the treble manageable at last.
> ZS5 are good.
> 
> Waiting for my cables and ZS6!



Please try those tips with ZS5 v1 -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html

Imhso, they even better than Starlines with ZS5 v1.


----------



## snip3r77

CoiL said:


> Please try those tips with ZS5 v1 -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html
> 
> Imhso, they even better than Starlines with ZS5 v1.


Buy earphones for the tips lmao


----------



## Superluc

TJK81 said:


> ZS3's are good earbuds with phenomenal fit (for me). I wish KZ's produce hybrid earbuds without any cable with shape of the ZS3.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BYVKdGKFOKx/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio


> there will be a new ZS3 hybrid too next month


----------



## TimeSnow

Superluc said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BYVKdGKFOKx/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio



For the non-link clickers amongst us:

"There's more and more KZ coming. While the ES3 is still a gearbest exclusive for now, there will be a new ZS3 hybrid too next month along with ZS6 and ZSR the following month which should be a 3 drivers design. 
All info are TBC but ZS6 is a sure thing at the moment."


----------



## Indrajit

Is there a detailed comparison between KZ ED9 and Brainwavz Jive only on basis of sound quality? Which of these two would be more accurate and detailed sounding?


----------



## Slater

tworule said:


> Thanks I am a bass head so v1 seems better. Just received zs3. Had problems with fit. My first overhead Iem. Then find out ciem technique. Now my ear does not hurt  I like the sound of zs3. I am no audiophile so I can't describe it



Ceim technique?


----------



## thejoker13

maxxevv said:


> Likewise, your comments too are proof that its completely subjective.
> 
> Not referring to you, (my apologies if it sounds that way) but generally, when comparing earphone sound quality / sound signature of any sort, kindly please state what exactly you're referring to and comparing to and your audio source as well as genre of music / specific track you compare them to. Else there really is no basis to compare. Much less the subjectively different perception of audio everyone has.
> 
> ...


My main point with that post was just to say that we all hear differently and that sound is subjective to each individual listener. 
I have intentionally not said much on the zs5 in general because of my personal opinion of them, which is not very positive overall. To me, when people are saying the zs5 compare or are even better then a well known and received i.e.m such as the shures, I cringe a little bit because of my personal opinions of both i.e.ms. I feel like the zs5 are artificial sounding and cheaply constructed and the shures are on another level comparatively. 
If I were to compare my zs5 and se315, I would say the 315 has a better, natural sound and is more coherent as a whole. I can enjoy the 315 with most genres of music, where I feel like the zs5 sounds good with a much smaller range of music to me. If I were to put their explain their sound in one word, I would say the zs5 are lifeless and the se315 are emotional. 
My personal preferences tend to favor a bass accentuated sound signature, so for me the 1more quads are my favorite earphones I own. They're very well constructed as well. My zs5 has very little bass at all and I even taped over the vents in an effort to increase the bass presence, but they still don't have a signature I can enjoy. I also find their treble to be artificial as well, and one of the cheaper constructed earphones that I've owned. 
I ordered the zs6 and it's on it's way to me now, and I'm hoping some of my issues with zs5 will have been fixed with the zs6.
In conclusion, I guess it just bugs me when I read someone say that the zs5 sounds better than a 200 dollar earphone, as I have yet to hear a 200 dollar earphone that the zs5 is better than, and I feel like those comments are very misleading. I'm happy for those people who are satisfied with a 20 dollar earphone and feel that earphone gives them the musical enjoyment they want. At the end of the day, that's what this hobby is about. We all just want to enjoy the music!


----------



## thejoker13

acia said:


> The zs6 is fabulous to listen to "lcd Soundsystem"
> 
> Retiring all stocks of zs5.
> 
> ...


I love lcd soundsystem and hope I'm as happy with my incoming zs6 as you are with yours.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BTW the Amazon Prime stock of the ZS6 is no joke. I ordered yesterday and it's gonna be here tomorrow. Defo eager to hear what they've got going on.


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 1, 2017)

Ordered a 2nd pair from amazon to see if it is the same sound sig as the Gearbest.  Besides, I needed a green one.


----------



## maxxevv

thejoker13 said:


> My personal preferences tend to favor a bass accentuated sound signature, so for me the 1more quads are my favorite earphones I own. They're very well constructed as well. My zs5 has very little bass at all and I even taped over the vents in an effort to increase the bass presence, but they still don't have a signature I can enjoy.



That's really weird if you hear them that way.  

I have auditioned the Quads a few times from my friend who has them and we talk a fair bit about audio when we do meet.  And I have auditioned the ZS5's too. 

What you're describing is pretty contrary to what I've been experiencing.  

The Quads are very well balanced earphones. Very well done frequency crossovers that provide a seamless transition between frequencies in its range.   No, they are not bassy at all, enough bass but not in any way dominating the other ranges.  

The ZS5's to me definitely have a bass biased. Compared to the Quads, more so, even though its not a exactly bad to most peopl.  Just that I don't fully agree with the way the music is presented  when I listen to many classical pieces. 

I suspect you might have a defective ZS5 pair, or like my friend connected his cables wrongly and initially thought they were crap, until I highlighted the cable issue to him.


----------



## tworule (Oct 1, 2017)

Slater said:


> Ceim technique?


CIEM  http://theheadphonelist.com/custom-in-ear-monitors-fit-guide/


----------



## CoiL (Oct 1, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Please try those tips with ZS5 v1 -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html
> 
> Imhso, they even better than Starlines with ZS5 v1.





snip3r77 said:


> Buy earphones for the tips lmao



Laugh as much as You want but if You don`t know much about tip-rolling and tip material/shape/bore size/length effects to IEM, then this doesn`t concern You, move on and don`t start bashing ppl recommendations. It`s a 3.73$ IEM and those tips can`t be found sold alone. Their shape, material and length is quite rare among tips and I have many... getting close to 50 different tips.
Heck, known hyped tips like spiral dots and spinfits are LOT more expensive and can have much worse results depending on IEM.


----------



## kokakolia

Indrajit said:


> Is there a detailed comparison between KZ ED9 and Brainwavz Jive only on basis of sound quality? Which of these two would be more accurate and detailed sounding?



Aya! I have been chirping on the ED9s over half a dozen pages on this thread. I can't find anything positive about them. Except that, well, they do have a lot of soundstage.

I just hate how they blast ear-piercing treble and boomy bass. They sound super grainy and unnatural to me. They sounded OK with EDM I guess. But terrible with rock/folk/metal music. Everything sounds "thin", like when you're landing in an airplane and the captain is announcing something. 

Ehhhh......can you get something else!?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

maxxevv said:


> That's really weird if you hear them that way.
> 
> I have auditioned the Quads a few times from my friend who has them and we talk a fair bit about audio when we do meet.  And I have auditioned the ZS5's too.
> 
> ...



I actually had the exact same experience as the above. I have the Quads and ZS5. The quads are quite bassy not just to my ears but to the ears of the people who auditioned them at a recent meetup. The ZS5, which appear to be the V1, are not bassier.


----------



## groucho69

CoiL said:


> Laugh as much as You want but if You don`t know much about tip-rolling and tip material/shape/bore size/length effects to IEM, then this doesn`t concern You, move on and don`t start bashing ppl recommendations. It`s a 3.73$ IEM and those tips can`t be found sold alone. Their shape, material and length is quite rare among tips and I have many... getting close to 50 different tips.
> Heck, known hyped tips like spiral dots and spinfits are LOT more expensive and can have much worse results depending on IEM.



I like the look of those tips. I'd take a flyer on them.


----------



## thejoker13

maxxevv said:


> That's really weird if you hear them that way.
> 
> I have auditioned the Quads a few times from my friend who has them and we talk a fair bit about audio when we do meet.  And I have auditioned the ZS5's too.
> 
> ...


I would describe the quad as a warm, musical earphone, but balanced overall. My zs5 sounds lifeless, cold and clinical in comparison. I tried wiring it differently to make sure I wasn't experiencing phase issues, but that actually made it sound worse. It became less clear and resolving and just plain "off". When wired correctly, they sound better but just not to my preference. KZ's quality control drives me crazy, lol. I'd love to hear someone's zs5 that sounds amazing to them, just to see if my pair is a bad pair or if they just really aren't my preference. Btw, I have the gray, version 1 with the 1 ba in the nozzle.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

thejoker13 said:


> I would describe the quad as a warm, musical earphone, but balanced overall. My zs5 sounds lifeless, cold and clinical in comparison. I tried wiring it differently to make sure I wasn't experiencing phase issues, but that actually made it sound worse. It became less clear and resolving and just plain "off". When wired correctly, they sound better but just not to my preference. KZ's quality control drives me crazy, lol. I'd love to hear someone's zs5 that sounds amazing to them, just to see if my pair is a bad pair or if they just really aren't my preference. Btw, I have the gray, version 1 with the 1 ba in the nozzle.



I got the same and "lifeless" is definitely not something I'd use to describe them. I'm thinking you got a dud pair. Maybe the DDs aren't firing?


----------



## thejoker13

SomeGuyDude said:


> I got the same and "lifeless" is definitely not something I'd use to describe them. I'm thinking you got a dud pair. Maybe the DDs aren't firing?


I suppose it's a possibility the dd's aren't working correctly. I wish I had a way to measure what I'm hearing from them. They definitely have some mid and low frequencies, but just sound flat. I feel like the dd's are working but just not as prominently as they should. I read people's impressions of theirs and it does almost sound like a completely different earphone then what I have. I'm hoping my incoming zs6 sounds good! My zs5 experience has made me a little jaded towards KZ and I'm hoping for a better experience with the zs6 or they will probably be my last pair of KZ's I buy.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

thejoker13 said:


> I suppose it's a possibility the dd's aren't working correctly. I wish I had a way to measure what I'm hearing from them. They definitely have some mid and low frequencies, but just sound flat. I feel like the dd's are working but just not as prominently as they should. I read people's impressions of theirs and it does almost sound like a completely different earphone then what I have. I'm hoping my incoming zs6 sounds good! My zs5 experience has made me a little jaded towards KZ and I'm hoping for a better experience with the zs6 or they will probably be my last pair of KZ's I buy.



I can understand if 2 in a row come back crap that you'd be done with the brand. Mine definitely have a lot of bass oomph. Possibly the cable is crap? I admit I bought the other KZ cable so I can't recall how they sounded stock.


----------



## khighly

I've been out for awhile.

Are the ZS6's worth it over the ZS5? How's the sound compare?


----------



## khighly

Also, reading the reviews I guess I should baby my ZS5 V1's?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

khighly said:


> Also, reading the reviews I guess I should baby my ZS5 V1's?


Yup the zs6s are a bit of a mess right now


----------



## HungryPanda

only a few people have ZS6 so the mess has not arrived


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'll have impressions of the ZS6 vs ZS5v1 tomorrow evening.


----------



## Saoshyant

Finally remembered where I had seen the design for the ZSE before, the Phiaton MS 300 BA.


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 1, 2017)

thejoker13 said:


> I would describe the quad as a warm, musical earphone, but balanced overall. My zs5 sounds lifeless, cold and clinical in comparison. I tried wiring it differently to make sure I wasn't experiencing phase issues, but that actually made it sound worse. It became less clear and resolving and just plain "off". When wired correctly, they sound better but just not to my preference. KZ's quality control drives me crazy, lol. I'd love to hear someone's zs5 that sounds amazing to them, just to see if my pair is a bad pair or if they just really aren't my preference. Btw, I have the gray, version 1 with the 1 ba in the nozzle.





SomeGuyDude said:


> I got the same and "lifeless" is definitely not something I'd use to describe them. I'm thinking you got a dud pair. Maybe the DDs aren't firing?



I have no way of quantifying the 'lifeless' observation you guys have regarding the ZS5 as I have not experienced it myself but I may have some prior experiences on why the Quads may sound 'bassy'. 

A week ago, I was doing a A/B on the Urbanfun Hifi hybrids versus the Berylllium drive single dynamics and someone mentioned that the Urbanfun Hifi had an elevated bass signature which I didn't find to be so. 
Fast forward a few days, I was experimenting on the Tingo IE800 to see if I could make it less bright, EQs et all, and finally settled invoking the "External Device" mode on my LG G6 (Quad DAC), which made it sound warmer, more full-bodied, and less piercing in the treble.  It sounds much more palatable after that. 

In the process I plugged in the UF Hifi to test out some tracks to compare the sound reproduction but surprise !! ...  the UF Hifi did sound like it had elevated bass in that setup!!  I reset the system back to its normal output and the familiar, almost neutral signature of the UF Hifi was back.  Seems that the earphone was not designed for amped input but rather the normal DAP or handphone.

Were you listening to the Quads via an amp rather than straight off a low power device such as a handphone or common DAP ??

I auditioned both the ZS5 and Quads on my LG G6 (Quad DAC version) in its normal low-impedance device mode.


----------



## Indrajit

kokakolia said:


> Aya! I have been chirping on the ED9s over half a dozen pages on this thread. I can't find anything positive about them. Except that, well, they do have a lot of soundstage.
> 
> I just hate how they blast ear-piercing treble and boomy bass. They sound super grainy and unnatural to me. They sounded OK with EDM I guess. But terrible with rock/folk/metal music. Everything sounds "thin", like when you're landing in an airplane and the captain is announcing something.
> 
> Ehhhh......can you get something else!?



 There are 6 reviews on Head fi regarding ED9'S sound which is inclined towards mid-range and there are multiple reviews on Jive regarding their sound. In my assessment these two come close, there is a comparison on head fi between them. According to the comparison ED9 was more detailed, deeper and more accurate in staging and imaging than the Brainz Jive.  I want to see i there are more comparisons out there, maybe if someone can shed light on their midrange driving capabilities


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Just ordered the kz zs6 from gearbest. The weird thing is the red and green ones will be dispatched withing 2 days of purchase but the black one which I ordered will be dispatched within 8-10th October which leads me to believe that the black ones might not be in stock right now but will be sent fresh out of the factory.  So maybe I won't receive the first batch of zs6 which many users have reported to having skull piercing highs?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

maxxevv said:


> I have no way of quantifying the 'lifeless' observation you guys have regarding the ZS5 as I have not experienced it myself but I may have some prior experiences on why the Quads may sound 'bassy'.
> 
> A week ago, I was doing a A/B on the Urbanfun Hifi hybrids versus the Berylllium drive single dynamics and someone mentioned that the Urbanfun Hifi had an elevated bass signature which I didn't find to be so.
> Fast forward a few days, I was experimenting on the Tingo IE800 to see if I could make it less bright, EQs et all, and finally settled invoking the "External Device" mode on my LG G6 (Quad DAC), which made it sound warmer, more full-bodied, and less piercing in the treble.  It sounds much more palatable after that.
> ...



I've listened to the ZS5's on pretty much everything. Laptop, phone, Chord Mojo. They've got some bass emphasis, but that's why I listen to them a lot. I feel some bass bump is a lot more "natural" sounding because of how visceral bass frequencies are when played on full speakers. 

We'll see what's up with the 6 though. I'm a bit concerned if that treble spike is any indication.


----------



## thejoker13

SomeGuyDude said:


> I can understand if 2 in a row come back crap that you'd be done with the brand. Mine definitely have a lot of bass oomph. Possibly the cable is ****? I admit I bought the other KZ cable so I can't recall how they sounded stock.


I bought the silver plated cable with the zs5. Sorry I wasn't very clear earlier as to why I'm about ready to write off KZ, so I'll try and explain it a little bit better. I'll always be thankful for KZ and Tennmak because those 2 brands are what got me started on this journey, but it seems like EVERY KZ release is marred with inconsistent q.c and wildly differnet impressions on how their products sound. I just feel like I've found earphones now that give me much more enjoyment listening to music and also much better build quality, and so now I don't feel the need to "risk" wether or not a new KZ will arrive sounding as it should.


----------



## thejoker13 (Oct 2, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've listened to the ZS5's on pretty much everything. Laptop, phone, Chord Mojo. They've got some bass emphasis, but that's why I listen to them a lot. I feel some bass bump is a lot more "natural" sounding because of how visceral bass frequencies are when played on full speakers.
> 
> We'll see what's up with the 6 though. I'm a bit concerned if that treble spike is any indication.


+1. I'd definitely like my zs5 if they had a bass hump as well. The bass quality and quantity is why my quads are my favorite earphone I own. Here's to hoping our incoming zs6 sound good with nice bass presence and no nuclear treble, haha.


----------



## thejoker13

maxxevv said:


> I have no way of quantifying the 'lifeless' observation you guys have regarding the ZS5 as I have not experienced it myself but I may have some prior experiences on why the Quads may sound 'bassy'.
> 
> A week ago, I was doing a A/B on the Urbanfun Hifi hybrids versus the Berylllium drive single dynamics and someone mentioned that the Urbanfun Hifi had an elevated bass signature which I didn't find to be so.
> Fast forward a few days, I was experimenting on the Tingo IE800 to see if I could make it less bright, EQs et all, and finally settled invoking the "External Device" mode on my LG G6 (Quad DAC), which made it sound warmer, more full-bodied, and less piercing in the treble.  It sounds much more palatable after that.
> ...


I listen to my quads and zs5 on the lg v20 exclusively now. All of my impressions of both earphones are based on the normal audio device output from my v20. Actually, I've never been able to trigger any other output from the quad dac other than the normal mode. I was hoping my klipsch x12 would trigger the high output being that they are 50 ohm, but unfortunately they don't activate it. Do you have any tricks or tips on how I may activate the high impedance mode?


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 2, 2017)

Quite easy,  you just need either a jack splitter or extension. 

Plug either one in first,  start up your music player app. You'll see the "External Device" mode in your volume control page of the LG device.

Plug in your earphones after that and remember to dial down your volume first before playing. It will usually be about 5~10 points louder for my earphones. 

ADDITION:  Plug the earphone onto the splitter/extension, not the phone jack though. 

That's how I do it on my G6 Quad DAC.


----------



## thejoker13

maxxevv said:


> Quite easy,  you just need either a jack splitter or extension.
> 
> Plug either one in first,  start up your music player app. You'll see the "External Device" mode in your volume control page of the LG device.
> 
> ...


Awesome, thank you! I'll order something from Amazon right now and give it a try. Thanks again, I appreciate the suggestion.


----------



## SomeEntityThing (Oct 2, 2017)

Anyone on this thread heard of this cable on KZ's official AliExpress page? :O There's also a version for the ED12/ZST/other models as well

KZ ZS3/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 1.2M High Purity Oxygen Free Copper Headset Silver Plated Wire 0.75mm Pin Upgrade Cable For Original Official
http://s.aliexpress.com/IjuERjqu 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## chi-fi mel

CoiL said:


> Laugh as much as You want but if You don`t know much about tip-rolling and tip material/shape/bore size/length effects to IEM, then this doesn`t concern You, move on and don`t start bashing ppl recommendations. It`s a 3.73$ IEM and those tips can`t be found sold alone. Their shape, material and length is quite rare among tips and I have many... getting close to 50 different tips.
> Heck, known hyped tips like spiral dots and spinfits are LOT more expensive and can have much worse results depending on IEM.


I've tried those tips with a dozen earphones and got bad results every time.


----------



## Holypal

SomeEntityThing said:


> Anyone on this thread heard of this cable on KZ's official AliExpress page? :O There's also a version for the ED12/ZST/other models as well
> 
> KZ ZS3/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 1.2M High Purity Oxygen Free Copper Headset Silver Plated Wire 0.75mm Pin Upgrade Cable For Original Official
> http://s.aliexpress.com/IjuERjqu
> (from AliExpress Android)



This is the cable I like the most. You can find cheaper price at other stores.


----------



## TJK81

TJK81 said:


> Guys, is there any chance to get L-shaped 2pin connector for ZS5's. I've got, with razor blade cuted, L-shape 2pin cabel from ES3's to fit the ZS5's and it is not looks much good. Straight 2pins connector do not fit my ears properly.
> Thanks.



Any suggestions?


----------



## vector84 (Oct 2, 2017)

TJK81 said:


> Any suggestions?


If you want a pre-made one you're probably going to have to head to taobao.

Scroll back about 40 pages and there's a link to one on taobao iirc or just poke around, try searching using simple character combinations along with relevant roman characters (like "ZS5" "ZS6" etc)


----------



## CYoung234 (Oct 2, 2017)

TJK81 said:


> Any suggestions?



This one is available either with the straight pins or the L shaped ones.

Newest Original KZ ZS6/ZS5/ZS6/ZS3/ED12 Cable Silver Plated High Purity OFC Upgrade Cable 0.75mm For KZ Earphones
http://s.aliexpress.com/uQ3UnUbe 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## Aevum

Anywaays, i just hit gearbest for ZS6 (in black), silver cable and some red foam tips,

Will comapre to the ZS5 v1 and Comply when i get them.

Which considering gearbest shipping, will probobly be mis december at the earliest


----------



## CoiL (Oct 2, 2017)

chi-fi mel said:


> I've tried those tips with a dozen earphones and got bad results every time.


Then they just are not right size and fit for Your ears. Doesn`t mean they are bad. I`ve had 2 cases where these tips fit perfect sonically and comfort wise, ZS5 v1 being one of them.

Pity those tips come only in one size (to me they seem something between S/M). 
I only use smallest size tips in my collection. Only KZ ANV with medium ones.


----------



## groucho69

Fahim Foysal said:


> Just ordered the kz zs6 from gearbest. The weird thing is the red and green ones will be dispatched withing 2 days of purchase but the black one which I ordered will be dispatched within 8-10th October which leads me to believe that the black ones might not be in stock right now but will be sent fresh out of the factory.  So maybe I won't receive the first batch of zs6 which many users have reported to having skull piercing highs?



Do not be surprised if nothing is dispatched in 2 days. National Holiday may interfere.


----------



## vector84

CoiL said:


> Then they just are not right size and fit for Your ears. Doesn`t mean they are bad. I`ve had 2 cases where these tips fit perfect sonically and comfort wise, ZS5 v1 being one of them.
> 
> Pity those tips come only in one size (to me they seem something between S/M).
> I only use smallest size tips in my collection. Only KZ ANV with medium ones.


I could've sworn I'd seen tips that looked rather like that before and your comment about only coming in one size helped me figure out where:
http://m.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/shop/accessories/C5-headphones/C5-Ear-Tip-Set-Small.html

Though the earphones off ali option is still a more economical choice


----------



## Mellowship

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've listened to the ZS5's on pretty much everything. Laptop, phone, Chord Mojo. They've got some bass emphasis, but that's why I listen to them a lot. I feel some bass bump is a lot more "natural" sounding because of how visceral bass frequencies are when played on full speakers.
> 
> (...).


I agree with that observation regarding the comparison between ZS5's bass and full speakers. The ZS5's bass sounds more natural to me than any other IEM I've tried so far, not because of some particular emphasis but mainly because it reminds me of good quality speakers. It's its tonal quality, its timbre, its ability to deliver different perspectives on the low spectre. 
I understand why many users aren't satisfied with the ZS5's bass: it's different. In the same way some users love the one-note humping and thumping Rock Zyrcon bass. One gets used to the typical IEM sound presentation which relies on very small elecroacoustic elements and their ability to move air on pressurized settings, and it is difficult to move one's mind. I mean, most IEMs sound more or less the same in the way they present the lower frequency programmes, with some degree of thumping which is modelled by the sub-bass. Some of them are shy on that particular, like the VIVO 800. Others have lively, musical, foot-tapping midbass, like the veteran Radiopaq Jazz. Others even have full-blown bass which, if uncontrolled, can easily overshadow the other freqs, like ZS3, ED7, etc. Or very distinct and polite bass, like ZST. Or deep and rumbling, but without compromising most of the mids and highs, like Shure SE215. 
On the other hand, the ZS5 are a disappointment to those who expect the typical IEM signature or even full headphone sound. Their bass has little thumping and humping, but it's there, it's present, it's enjoyable and is, absolutely, hifi. Just go listen to a live jazz concert with a double bass and a jazz drum, and then, listen to a similar combo on some hifi with good quality full sized monitor speakers, and then put on the ZS5. You will see... I mean... listen to what I mean. The low frequency textures are all there! The drums sound like drums. The double bass sounds like double bass. The odd harmonics coming from the classic Rickenbacker bass guitar will be presented as they should, and you'll know that's a Rickenbacker and not a Fender. I don't know if KZ people did it on purpose or if it was an accident but the bass on the ZS5 is really an achievement that, in my opinion, goes way beyond its price tag.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Much as I'd love to credit KZ, I've got a feeling they just happened to pick up some really nice OEM drivers on the cheap. Not to say the design/crossovers/etc aren't done well also, because they are (despite the Campfire copying), but I feel like a lot of the tonality is thanks to good drivers.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 2, 2017)

groucho69 said:


> Do not be surprised if nothing is dispatched in 2 days. National Holiday may interfere.


I ordered the black ones which says it will be dispatched on 8-10th octorber. So thats already like more than a whole week from now.

Has anyone received their zs6 yet. I am dying to hear some impressions on the sound signature and quality


----------



## khighly

Best thing about the ZS5's bass: it only presents itself when it really needs to. It sounds great and well balanced.

I've had the ZS5's as my daily drivers since launch, still going strong and sound just as good.

I'm a bit disappointed I can't get the blue ones now


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Much as I'd love to credit KZ, I've got a feeling they just happened to pick up some really nice OEM drivers on the cheap. Not to say the design/crossovers/etc aren't done well also, because they are (despite the Campfire copying), but I feel like a lot of the tonality is thanks to good drivers.


I agree that's entirely possible, but I tend to think it's rather the opposite - I personally think those "useless" drivers might in fact have been up to something very tricky...

I'd love to see what some square waves and impulse responses look like coming out of the ZS5 v1... but those kinds of tests are a whole different ballgame...


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 2, 2017)

chinmie said:


> anybody compared the ZSE  to the ATR yet? if they have similar tuning but improve on the ATR, i might try them.
> 
> i purchased the ZS5 with silver cable yesterday. it was good, but the treble is over exaggerated in volume (although i didn't find them sibilant or harsh).the also seems to exaggerate their soundstage because of it. i prefer the more natural tuning of the Urbanfun Hifi compared to the more expressive ZS5. if the turn down the treble output a bit without dampening the freq, the ZS5 would have been a great iem.



Try using them with the stock cables. I'm using them with the stock grey cables and Comply T200 tips and they sound great. In some ways they are equal to my Noble Audio IEM's as far as instrument separation.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vector84 said:


> I agree that's entirely possible, but I tend to think it's rather the opposite - I personally think those "useless" drivers might in fact have been up to something very tricky...
> 
> I'd love to see what some square waves and impulse responses look like coming out of the ZS5 v1... but those kinds of tests are a whole different ballgame...



Good point. I hope (if that's the case) that they didn't change the design solely to silence critics who were wrong to begin with, then.


----------



## khighly

Actually, my favorite thing about the ZS5v1's is how many people said the highs were well controlled and awesome after complaining about the ZST's being high frequency flamethrowers.

They have almost exactly the same amount of highs.

The ZS6's are probably going through this same process.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

khighly said:


> Actually, my favorite thing about the ZS5v1's is how many people said the highs were well controlled and awesome after complaining about the ZST's being high frequency flamethrowers.
> 
> They have almost exactly the same amount of highs.
> 
> The ZS6's are probably going through this same process.



Someone posted a chart on Reddit with a WAY higher treble spike over the 5, but I don't know how reliable that was, and if it was in relation to the v1 or v2.


----------



## TJK81

I admit that i'm using my ZS5's more than much more expensive K702. That great they are for me.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Someone posted a chart on Reddit with a WAY higher treble spike over the 5, but I don't know how reliable that was, and if it was in relation to the v1 or v2.


HiFiChris posted one shortly after receiving them that shows the same thing, v1 vs ZS6.

http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/09/kz-zs6-frequency-response.html


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vector84 said:


> HiFiChris posted one shortly after receiving them that shows the same thing, v1 vs ZS6.



Which would make sense if the ZS6 is built off of the ZS5v2 where they moved both BA's into the nozzle. But as always I'll let my ears decide over charts.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Which would make sense if the ZS6 is built off of the ZS5v2 where they moved both BA's into the nozzle. But as always I'll let my ears decide over charts.


Which is obviously the better choice given that resonance tends to often play a huge factor in high frequency measurements.

What I'd really read into that is: I would tend to think opinions might be even more divisive on the v2 / ZS6


----------



## zabunny94

SomeGuyDude said:


> Much as I'd love to credit KZ, I've got a feeling they just happened to pick up some really nice OEM drivers on the cheap. Not to say the design/crossovers/etc aren't done well also, because they are (despite the Campfire copying), but I feel like a lot of the tonality is thanks to good drivers.



i've always imagined that most low-end oriented earphones manufacturer are just always putting random drivers in random shells and hoping that one of them might just take off in the market and most of the "hit" earphones are mostly just pure luck on their parts. this part also could be applied to some western brand in their low-end segment

might be related to this topic or not, but there's a reason that mx500 shell is really popular in earbud scene because instead of mixing two variables(shells + driver), using only one type of shells increase the chance of the outcome to be a "hit" more likely because you're dealing with less combination, this also could be applied with some higher-end brand.


----------



## kokakolia

khighly said:


> Actually, my favorite thing about the ZS5v1's is how many people said the highs were well controlled and awesome after complaining about the ZST's being high frequency flamethrowers.
> 
> They have almost exactly the same amount of highs.
> 
> The ZS6's are probably going through this same process.



Yeah, about that, just typing "ZS6" in YouTube will pop up 2~3 not very informative "unboxing reviews" basically saying that the ZS5 and ZS6 sound the same. And they'll say something like "The ZS6 is slightly better", or "Don't bother with the ZS6 if you have the ZS5". 

The other surprising thing that I found out just by typing "KZ" into YouTube is that the ZS5 is not universally accepted as the best-sounding KZ earphone. Some guy said that he'd rather use the ATR/ATE and that the ZS3 was his favorite. His main complaint with the ZS5 was the harsh treble. He never talked about the ZSE however. I say this because another guy was hyping up the ZSE saying it's better than the ZS5. 

I understand that these reviews are very subjective. But when people complain about harsh treble it's a red flag to me. I am glad I listened to a bunch of "not very informative amateur reviews" and saved my money. Because the ZS5/ZS6 are super expensive compared to the dirt cheap ZSE or ATR which some say "sound better". They are entitled to an opinion. 

And I am still rambling here, but it just makes me wanna listen to every KZ IEM out there but I'd be $200 lighter and have a drawer full of earbuds...


----------



## eaglesgift

kokakolia said:


> but I'd be $200 lighter and have a drawer full of earbuds...


Welcome to my world


----------



## groucho69

SomeGuyDude said:


> Much as I'd love to credit KZ, I've got a feeling they just happened to pick up some really nice OEM drivers on the cheap. Not to say the design/crossovers/etc aren't done well also, because they are (despite the Campfire copying), but I feel like a lot of the tonality is thanks to good drivers.



It was my understanding that KZ make their drivers.


----------



## VinceHill24

kokakolia said:


> Yeah, about that, just typing "ZS6" in YouTube will pop up 2~3 not very informative "unboxing reviews" basically saying that the ZS5 and ZS6 sound the same. And they'll say something like "The ZS6 is slightly better", or "Don't bother with the ZS6 if you have the ZS5".
> 
> The other surprising thing that I found out just by typing "KZ" into YouTube is that the ZS5 is not universally accepted as the best-sounding KZ earphone. Some guy said that he'd rather use the ATR/ATE and that the ZS3 was his favorite. His main complaint with the ZS5 was the harsh treble. He never talked about the ZSE however. I say this because another guy was hyping up the ZSE saying it's better than the ZS5.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like there's probably lots of basshead youtube reviewers around, probably the type who'd say good things about Beats i guess.

Based on my observation and just purely my opinion as well, most but not all youtube reviewers seems to have tendency towards basshead while on head-fi it's like a total opposite where most have high tendency towards bright sound.

That's probably a reason too why Beats are so successful because the general public is all about that bass, no treble. Whereas the head-fi is only such a small community of audiophiles. 

Simply ask the person around you, friends, colleagues, relatives what earphones or headphones are they using and the 90% will tell you their phone's bundled earbud, 9% will probably be the riches with branded Beats, JBL etc.. and yea we're the proud 1% lol


----------



## peskypesky

Just got a notice that my blue ZS5's shipped. Hoping they sound as good as my gray ones.


----------



## groucho69




----------



## SomeGuyDude

I think it's a bit wrong to say most are 'all about that bass, no treble.' Most are listening to modern rock/pop/hip-hop, which will benefit from a v-shaped headphone or a bassy one, but that treble is a bit part as well. 

That's the main thing, IMO. Your average audiophile is listening to different music than most consumers. Rae Sremmurd or Avenged Sevenfold don't sound particularly lively with a neutral or mid-centric headphone, nor would I suggest the M100 to someone whose primary musicians are Ella Fitzgerald and classical piano.

Headphones aren't driving the listening preferences, the music is. My collection is built largely because I'm a rap/metal guy, I'm sure if I listened to totally different music I'd have a different collection. No matter how much I understand why the Senn HD800 or Stax are technically stunning products, I don't want to own them because the music I enjoy sounds thin and weak with them.


----------



## vector84

groucho69 said:


> It was my understanding that KZ make their drivers.


So I went digging in this thread because I thought I recalled people saying KZ was the OEM making a lot of those drivers...

What I found was something quite the opposite...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-564#post-12190697

To me at least, that sounds like KZ is the client and they hire an OEM to produce their foreign trade products... 
I wonder if that's part of the mysterious relationship between KZ and QKZ...


----------



## BurningSkies

I've been using ZST's at home in the studio for tracking and more recently on stage for our IEM setup...rather than the Shure SE215's I have on hand. I've been pretty pleased with them...but they really were a test to see if I liked IEMs in general. I figured I'd drop another 20$ on a set of 4-driver ZS5's especially when I saw on GearBest they're listing them with aluminum shells.  I was saddened to realize today that they're probably still plastic and they've mis-listed them on the site (they even reply to a question about that, saying they're metal builds).  So I ended up grabbing a set of ZS6's on Amazon for 45$. 

I guess i'll have 3 sets around. 

In other news, even on loud stages the ZST's have done really well...and I'm a bass player so I live in the lows.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

It's also worth mentioning that application and crossovers are a BIG part of a multi-driver IEM. Great drivers with poor placement and badly implemented crossovers will sound far worse than lackluster drivers in a good application.


----------



## kokakolia

VinceHill24 said:


> Sounds to me like there's probably lots of basshead youtube reviewers around, probably the type who'd say good things about Beats i guess.
> 
> Based on my observation and just purely my opinion as well, most but not all youtube reviewers seems to have tendency towards basshead while on head-fi it's like a total opposite where most have high tendency towards bright sound.
> 
> ...



Yeah! I wanna rag on the Head-fi community a little bit: you guys are treble heads! 

It was evident to me when I ordered the Superlux HD 681 based on overwhelmingly positive recommendations, only to throw them in the garbage because the treble was so exhausting. I couldn't bring myself to sell them. I would be too ashamed. It also makes me wanna hurl when I see threads of people removing filters and cutting foam pads (KSC 75) to elevate the treble on already bright sounding headphones. 

At least with Beats products you get a relaxing sound without harshness. The same could be said about Bose. 

And yes, I know lots of people with cheap Sony/JVC/Skullcandy earbuds. These things are disgusting mini treble canons! So something like a Bose/Beats headphone feels like therapy after that.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kokakolia said:


> Yeah! I wanna rag on the Head-fi community a little bit: you guys are treble heads!
> 
> It was evident to me when I ordered the Superlux HD 681 based on overwhelmingly positive recommendations, only to throw them in the garbage because the treble was so exhausting. I couldn't bring myself to sell them. I would be too ashamed. It also makes me wanna hurl when I see threads of people removing filters and cutting foam pads (KSC 75) to elevate the treble on already bright sounding headphones.
> 
> ...



LMAO I remember hating those little things like the Skullcandy Ink'd because the treble was just piercing. And seeing people do crap like use the se846 without any filter at all just blows my mind. 

I have a feeling a lot of people listen to delicate music at very low volumes for only short periods of time, because trying to listen to anything with meat to it for a few hours on "audiophile" headphones is agonizing.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> It's also worth mentioning that application and crossovers are a BIG part of a multi-driver IEM. Great drivers with poor placement and badly implemented crossovers will sound far worse than lackluster drivers in a good application.


So how do you feel about KZ largely not using crossovers at all in most of their multi-driver IEMs? 

Impressive design? or inspiring luck? or maybe a little bit of both?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vector84 said:


> So how do you feel about KZ largely not using crossovers at all in most of their multi-driver IEMs?
> 
> Impressive design? or inspiring luck? or maybe a little bit of both?



Is there any evidence of this? Because that sounds more than a little bizarre that they'd have 4 drivers in there all doing the full spectrum. If anything, it would risk some serious cancellation.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Is there any evidence of this? Because that sounds more than a little bizarre that they'd have 4 drivers in there all doing the full spectrum. If anything, it would risk some serious cancellation.


I guess you missed the whole "2 driver" ZS5 thing?

Plenty of people have opened up ZS5s and commented on the lack of a crossover - and KZs own product briefs about the ZS5 v2 vs ZS6 note "fine tuned driver placement" (ZS5) vs "electronic frequency division" (ZS6)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vector84 said:


> I guess you missed the whole "2 driver" ZS5 thing?
> 
> Plenty of people have opened up ZS5s and commented on the lack of a crossover - and KZs own product briefs about the ZS5 v2 vs ZS6 note "fine tuned driver placement" (ZS5) vs "electronic frequency division" (ZS6)



I remember the "2 driver" thing, didn't recall the lack of crossover.

That's definitely curious. I'm surprised there are no cancellation issues, but I guess that means they were careful with the placement instead. Might lead to extra cohesion when there's no crossing, but that IS curious indeed. I would never have expected a multi-driver hybrid to have everything firing from top to bottom.


----------



## Sylmar

VinceHill24 said:


> Sounds to me like there's probably lots of basshead youtube reviewers around, probably the type who'd say good things about Beats i guess.
> 
> Based on my observation and just purely my opinion as well, most but not all youtube reviewers seems to have tendency towards basshead while on head-fi it's like a total opposite where most have high tendency towards bright sound.
> 
> ...



I think that with audiophiles it's not so much a case of bass vs. treble. I guess it's true that most non-audiophile listeners rate bass above treble but audiophiles can like warm IEMS just as much. It seems to me it's more that we audiophiles like our little details in what we hear. Detail retrieval is important. And a lot of other subjective stuff of course.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Sylmar said:


> I think that with audiophiles it's not so much a case of bass vs. treble. I guess it's true that most non-audiophile listeners rate bass above treble but audiophiles can like warm IEMS just as much. It seems to me it's more that we audiophiles like our little details in what we hear. Detail retrieval is important. And a lot of other subjective stuff of course.



I often think the detail hunting is a fallacy, TBH.

Details are important, but the question is how much detail was the recording intended to reveal? I've read reviewers like Tyll rave about being able to hear spit on the singer's lips or the tap of fingernails on a piano key. That strikes me as the same as cranking up the sharpness on a photograph and raving about how "detailed" it is. Just because it happened in the recording room doesn't mean it was supposed to be audible. It's not at all a coincidence that every headphone people laud for its "detail" is also a treble cannon.


----------



## Sylmar

SomeGuyDude said:


> I often think the detail hunting is a fallacy, TBH.
> 
> Details are important, but the question is how much detail was the recording intended to reveal? I've read reviewers like Tyll rave about being able to hear spit on the singer's lips or the tap of fingernails on a piano key. That strikes me as the same as cranking up the sharpness on a photograph and raving about how "detailed" it is. Just because it happened in the recording room doesn't mean it was supposed to be audible. It's not at all a coincidence that every headphone people laud for its "detail" is also a treble cannon.



Fair point. I must say that at the moment I'm enjoying cheapo chinese IEMS that are not detailed at all but have a lowfi analog-ish sound to them. I can enjoy these as well at times. Depends on my mood and the music I'm listening to.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Sylmar said:


> Fair point. I must say that at the moment I'm enjoying cheapo chinese IEMS that are not detailed at all but have a lowfi analog-ish sound to them. I can enjoy these as well at times. Depends on my mood and the music I'm listening to.



I definitely don't want to sound like a basshead who DGAF about details (I definitely do, I picked the LCD-X over the 3 because it's less dark/warm), I just sometimes feel like in the same way many consumers rate bass too highly, so too do audiophiles rave too much about treble. 

It's also possible that I'm grumpy because the #$%^ USPS guy isn't here yet and I want my ZS6.


----------



## Sylmar

SomeGuyDude said:


> I definitely don't want to sound like a basshead who DGAF about details (I definitely do, I picked the LCD-X over the 3 because it's less dark/warm), I just sometimes feel like in the same way many consumers rate bass too highly, so too do audiophiles rave too much about treble.
> 
> It's also possible that I'm grumpy because the #$%^ USPS guy isn't here yet and I want my ZS6.



Hope you'll give an impression about them when you get them. Still haven't ordered them, mostly because I went on a KZ shopping spree (mainly the older ones).


----------



## sghound

SomeGuyDude said:


> No matter how much I understand why the Senn HD800 or Stax are technically stunning products, I don't want to own them because the music I enjoy sounds thin and weak with them.



THIS


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Okay, I admit this is JUST out of the box, but holy crap the ZS6 is sibilant as ****.

Like, the few tracks I've fired up are like "HI THERE ARE YOU A FAN OF HI-HATS BECAUSE HERE YOU GO."


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> I remember the "2 driver" thing, didn't recall the lack of crossover.
> 
> That's definitely curious. I'm surprised there are no cancellation issues, but I guess that means they were careful with the placement instead. Might lead to extra cohesion when there's no crossing, but that IS curious indeed. I would never have expected a multi-driver hybrid to have everything firing from top to bottom.


A couple other curious things I've come across that I feel might be related:

It always bothered me one of the BA was wired up with a bare copper grounding wire - the rest of the wiring scheme is red and green... why bare copper there?  Every one that I've seen opened conformed to that oddity... by itself perhaps just an oddity, both green and bare are acceptable grounding colors, but why is it so consistent?

When I overdamped the nozzle BA, I was getting a very curious notch on a FR pulled from white noise - as close to zero output as my shoddy measurement equipment can register on a sharp notch in the 5kHz region.


Alone probably meaningless odd artifacts - together though they make me wonder if something very tricky is going on there.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Okay so... if anyone's getting the ZS6, the stock cable is garbage. I don't know how or why, but when i swapped it out for the KZ silver-plated that they sell, the 6 sounded a LOT better.


----------



## Saoshyant

SomeGuyDude said:


> Okay so... if anyone's getting the ZS6, the stock cable is garbage. I don't know how or why, but when i swapped it out for the KZ silver-plated that they sell, the 6 sounded a LOT better.



Ok, glad I have a silver ready to go then.  Also in the same boat on waiting for a delivery that should have happened by now, as my Monoprice M300 got into town yesterday, and I'm fairly sure UPS will sit on it until Wednesday for the delivery because that's what I paid for.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Saoshyant said:


> Ok, glad I have a silver ready to go then.  Also in the same boat on waiting for a delivery that should have happened by now, as my Monoprice M300 got into town yesterday, and I'm fairly sure UPS will sit on it until Wednesday for the delivery because that's what I paid for.



Do yourself a favor and listen to them with the stock cable first. Just so you can hear it. I honestly can't say I've been that crestfallen with a purchase before where I was just like "wow... I completely wasted my money." 

Now that I've been listening for the past while with the other cable, I think they're a good upgrade. Bass is still plenty strong and has a nice tone to it.


----------



## Saoshyant

SomeGuyDude said:


> Do yourself a favor and listen to them with the stock cable first. Just so you can hear it. I honestly can't say I've been that crestfallen with a purchase before where I was just like "wow... I completely wasted my money."
> 
> Now that I've been listening for the past while with the other cable, I think they're a good upgrade. Bass is still plenty strong and has a nice tone to it.



I'm not a cable believer by any means, so I'll give it a listen with stock cable first.  I'm also one of the least picky listeners on Head-fi, at least it feels that way, as I tend to look for the good in any headphone/earphone I try.  I mean, I may not like it, but I'll at least identify where it's strengths are.  Then again, some cans are just bad.  I also have a bit of a wait as I bought off Gearbest a few days before noticing it on Amazon.  Also, I should have no issues with the treble, as I'm fairly sure any hearing issues I have are in that region, and I've never once heard treble that caused discomfort.  Pretty sure I own at least a couple of treble cannons too.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Okay so... if anyone's getting the ZS6, the stock cable is garbage. I don't know how or why, but when i swapped it out for the KZ silver-plated that they sell, the 6 sounded a LOT better.


I've pointed this out a few times - if you're not a believer in cables, you'd likely say something about cables being largely transparent as long as they're electrically sound (and I would tend to sort of agree for the most part)... thing is, KZ's stock cable for the ZS5/ZS6 are *not* electrically sound for the application they're being used in (>20% voltage drop).  A few dB louder at the very least on an electrically sound cable would be expected (<5% voltage drop, as all of KZs upgrade cables are).

Not saying it's gonna start a fire, way too little power for that... but not surprising that there's audible differences imo.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vector84 said:


> I've pointed this out a few times - if you're not a believer in cables, you'd likely say something about cables being largely transparent as long as they're electrically sound (and I would tend to sort of agree for the most part)... thing is, KZ's stock cable for the ZS5/ZS6 are *not* electrically sound for the application they're being used in (>20% voltage drop).  A few dB louder at the very least on an electrically sound cable would be expected (<5% voltage drop, as all of KZs upgrade cables are).
> 
> Not saying it's gonna start a fire, way too little power for that... but not surprising that there's audible differences imo.



Yeah, using the other cable makes me feel like I can actually judge the ZS6 on their merits. 

I'm back with the star tips for the moment, and my main qualm remains that the 2nd BA in the nozzle has added sharpness. I'm not gonna condemn them within an hour because hey if the cable can help maybe some other shenanigans can happen. Off the top, these definitely have more of an "open" sound to the ZS5v1, the bass is still powerful but sounds good rather than one-note, I'm a bad judge of mids but I will say that aside from adjusting to the treble I don't think the midrange is sucked out to any worrisome degree. There's a dimensionality happening here that the 5 didn't do as well. Things feel more "all around" the head. 

Still not gonna give a final judgment, but I'll say at least that these are definitely a solid product and the added treble I could definitely imagine winning some people over.


----------



## Slater (Oct 2, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Yeah, about that, just typing "ZS6" in YouTube will pop up 2~3 not very informative "unboxing reviews" basically saying that the ZS5 and ZS6 sound the same. And they'll say something like "The ZS6 is slightly better", or "Don't bother with the ZS6 if you have the ZS5".
> 
> The other surprising thing that I found out just by typing "KZ" into YouTube is that the ZS5 is not universally accepted as the best-sounding KZ earphone. Some guy said that he'd rather use the ATR/ATE and that the ZS3 was his favorite. His main complaint with the ZS5 was the harsh treble. He never talked about the ZSE however. I say this because another guy was hyping up the ZSE saying it's better than the ZS5.
> 
> ...



I don’t look at YouTube for anything headphone related (and almost always Amazon too). Just too many nobodies that simply post a video to get YouTube views, free products, or free points from all of the various Chinese ecommerce sites. 97% of them have absolutely no clue what they’re talking about or the reviews are unreliable.

Not to mention that there’s numerous documented cases of companies flat out PAYING YouTubers money $500 in at least 1 case) to blatantly give a favorable review (without disclosing this of course).

If you’re just looking for a unboxing video so you can see what the cable looks like and what accessories are included, great. If you want an honest and accurate review including sonic reviews that actually make sense (vs  simply “it sounds really clear with good bass”) then I avoid it like the plague.


----------



## kokakolia

Slater said:


> I don’t look at YouTube for anything headphone related (and almost always Amazon too). Just too many nobodies that simply post a video to get YouTube views, free products, or free points from all of the various Chinese ecommerce sites. 97% of them have absolutely no clue what they’re talking about or the reviews are unreliable.
> 
> Not to mention that there’s numerous documented cases of companies flat out PAYING YouTubers money $500 in at least 1 case) to blatantly give a favorable review (without disclosing this of course).
> 
> If you’re just looking for a unboxing video so you can see what the cable looks like and what accessories are included, great. If you want an honest and accurate review including sonic reviews that actually make sense (vs  simply “it sounds really clear with good bass”) then I avoid it like the plague.



Well, the way I see it:

Very obvious flaws will be pointed out by anyone, no matter how knowledgeable they are. 

I am looking for things like:

- Harshness in the treble
- Poor fit
- Build Quality issues 
- Any other flaw that hinders the user experience

So I will not be buying the ZS6 because of the "harshness in the treble".


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> Well, the way I see it:
> 
> Very obvious flaws will be pointed out by anyone, no matter how knowledgeable they are.
> 
> ...



Not when someone is getting paid to flat out lie so the company can sell headphones.

The reviewers give glowing reviews.

So how do you prevent that?


----------



## Aevum

I have a KZ ZS5 and i love them, thats why i bought the ZS6 and i will give my opinion when i get them. 

A lot of people give glowing reviews of VSONIC and the VSD5 are some of the worst sounding IEM´s i have ever tried, they are absolute garbage, 

And i remember the Trinity audio engnieering hype train, badly built, nothing special sound wise, 

Im not going to tell you that the KZ´s are the best thing ever, but the fact that they can almost match the Trinity Phantom Masters at 10% the price says something. 

The KZ ZS5 is probobly the best 16€ i ever invested in earphones, but i cant say the same about the ZS6 until i get them. 

Another thing, when i hot the ZS5, i used those star tips from KZ and they sounded like ASS, Sibilant, empty, Vailed, and uneven... i thought i tossed 16 euros down the drain, but i had the luck that i tried them again with comply tips... night and day difference.


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> So I went digging in this thread because I thought I recalled people saying KZ was the OEM making a lot of those drivers...
> 
> What I found was something quite the opposite...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-564#post-12190697
> ...



I don't read anything in the post you linked to that leads me to that conclusion. Don't forget that they can sub out the actual build of their design to a shop and still be the OEM.


----------



## Saoshyant

So all in all, the ZS6 is probably the go-to treble-head IEM of KZ's inventory?


Slater said:


> Not when someone is getting paid to flat out lie so the company can sell headphones.
> 
> The reviewers give glowing reviews.
> 
> So how do you prevent that?



Give me a pen and I'll go stabbing.  That'll teach em.


----------



## vector84

groucho69 said:


> I don't read anything in the post you linked to that leads me to that conclusion. Don't forget that they can sub out the actual build of their design to a shop and still be the OEM.


I'm confused.  If KZ is subbing out the build to someone else... that someone else is the OEM and KZ are the designers in that relationship, yeah?


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> I'm confused.  If KZ is subbing out the build to someone else... that someone else is the OEM and KZ are the designers in that relationship, yeah?



So you don't regard Apple, NCR, GM, Ford, etc as OEM?


----------



## vector84

groucho69 said:


> So you don't regard Apple, NCR, GM, Ford, etc as OEM?


In automotives OEM has a different context.

Apple is not an OEM, they contract OEM services from Foxconn?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Saoshyant said:


> So all in all, the ZS6 is probably the go-to treble-head IEM of KZ's inventory?
> 
> 
> Give me a pen and I'll go stabbing.  That'll teach em.



With the stock cable? Absolutely. Swap that out and the rest of the spectrum comes to life. I'd even argue that with bass-heavy rap they're stunningly good.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kokakolia said:


> Well, the way I see it:
> 
> Very obvious flaws will be pointed out by anyone, no matter how knowledgeable they are.
> 
> ...



I'd say that with the cable swap the treble isn't any harsher than something like the DT990, if that's a useful metric.


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> In automotives OEM has a different context.
> 
> Apple is not an OEM, they hire OEM services from Foxconn?



That makes Apple the OEM and whoever does the build for them the assembly house. I sold electronic components for decades and this is how it is looked at. There are rarely any OEM that does complete in house manufacture. Even component manufacturers.


----------



## vector84

groucho69 said:


> That makes Apple the OEM and whoever does the build for them the assembly house. I sold electronic components for decades and this is how it is looked at. There are rarely any OEM that does complete in house manufacture. Even component manufacturers.


I mean, we're obviously using two contradictory definitions of OEM here 

Mine would be: a manufacturer that produces products to a given design specification that will be marketed by a brand other than its own.

I'm guessing yours would be: the original parts used in and specified for a given design and/or the company that will honor the warranty of the finished product.


----------



## Shadowsora

CoiL said:


> Please try those tips with ZS5 v1 -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html
> 
> Imhso, they even better than Starlines with ZS5 v1.


Hey CoiL long time no see!
I Will certainly give those a try as well, already waiting some comply tips and those treble filtering from OSTRY.

Next wave will be Spinfits and those, for sure.

Oh man I was absent from chi-fi for some months and I returned really hungry.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Okay, I think I got my setup.

KZ ZS6 + KZ silver cable + Spinbit Blades. Everything seems to have fallen into place. If anything, they went from insanely sibilant to a bit bass heavy (which I'm fine with). I've got a feeling others may prefer other tips, but I think I've got it set up exactly how I like it.


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> Well, the way I see it:
> Very obvious flaws will be pointed out by anyone, no matter how knowledgeable they are.
> 
> I am looking for things like:
> ...


You may be right, but not forget that a lot of this things con be subjective. Casual's review are not that trustworthy.

Treble's harshness, as we said before, can be perceived differently. Same thing for fit, and it also can have impact on sound.

As for me, i know that i have place a huge bet on ZS6, for my treble's liking, but this time i'm also in the right mood for mod and EQ them, if something go wrong. Like we can place felt, toilet paper or other materials between pads and driver on bigger headphones, searching for our personal balance of treble's presence, we need to understand that it's a problem that need to be approached with personalization, if we can also want some audible upgrade and more details overall. I said it before, sibilance exist on nature and recording. A sibilant headphone is not a bad headphone, per se.
All i was thinking, when i have place the order, is that i want that potential on bass and mids, that soundstage and instrument separation, with more quality construction and exchangeable cable ( i have ordered the copper KZ's cable ), because i'm also too damn tired of listen stronger microphonics on a lot of cheap IEM. 
35-40$ are too much for that ? maybe, and maybe there is some better alternative to this model, that other users can recommend, but it also can be said that some guys buy and mod a LOT more expensive stuff, searching for their personal vision of an audio heaven.


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> I mean, we're obviously using two contradictory definitions of OEM here
> 
> Mine would be: a manufacturer that produces products to a given design specification that will be marketed by a brand other than its own.
> 
> I'm guessing yours would be: the original parts used in and specified for a given design and/or the company that will honor the warranty of the finished product.



You are describing a Reseller/Rebranded etc., these products are called *White-label products* and the means of selling *white-label service* or simply *white-labelling*.


----------



## Superluc (Oct 2, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Okay, I think I got my setup.
> 
> KZ ZS6 + KZ silver cable + Spinbit Blades. Everything seems to have fallen into place. If anything, they went from insanely sibilant to a bit bass heavy (which I'm fine with).


 Good to hear that 

EDIT: witch version of Spinfit Twinblades ?


----------



## vector84

groucho69 said:


> You are describing a Reseller/Rebranded etc., these products are called *White-label products* and the means of selling *white-label service* or simply *white-labelling*.


And more to the point - what does all of this mean in relation to the post I linked earlier?

For some context, the question is if the shop would be stocking the new KZ S3.
The first response reads "This is actually not on the newest products, it is the weihuo product foreign trade OEM , so you can see it's price is very low [...]"
And the transaction concludes with being informed that the KZ ED3 sounds identical to the KZ S3 despite some cosmetic differences.


So I'm genuinely curious... what do you make of that interaction then?  I get where you're coming from... but the definition you're using just doesn't make any sense to me in that context.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Superluc said:


> Good to hear that



Yep. I can definitely understand why some might balk at the idea of dropping $30-40 on these only to need a new set of tips _and_ a different cable, but I'd argue the sound that results is worth the total expense. At least that's my first impression. Going to give it more time like I've said elsewhere. See if my impression changes.

EDIT: The cp240-M is what I'm using. No fit issues at all. They seem to sit in the ear more easily than the ZS5.


----------



## Superluc (Oct 2, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yep. I can definitely understand why some might balk at the idea of dropping $30-40 on these only to need a new set of tips _and_ a different cable, but I'd argue the sound that results is worth the total expense. At least that's my first impression. Going to give it more time like I've said elsewhere. See if my impression changes.
> 
> EDIT: The cp240-M is what I'm using. No fit issues at all. They seem to sit in the ear more easily than the ZS5.


Thanks.

You can also have normal Spinfit ? If yes, you find worth it upgrade to Twinblades ?


----------



## kokakolia

SomeGuyDude said:


> Yep. I can definitely understand why some might balk at the idea of dropping $30-40 on these only to need a new set of tips _and_ a different cable, but I'd argue the sound that results is worth the total expense. At least that's my first impression. Going to give it more time like I've said elsewhere. See if my impression changes.
> 
> EDIT: The cp240-M is what I'm using. No fit issues at all. They seem to sit in the ear more easily than the ZS5.



I definitely see the irony. Because your Chi-Fi value IEM isn't a bargain anymore. 

Honestly, something like a Marshall Mode for $50 doesn't need any modifications to sound good. It's so comfy and well made. The sound quality is great if you want something warm and smooth


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> I definitely see the irony. Because your Chi-Fi value IEM isn't a bargain anymore.
> 
> Honestly, something like a Marshall Mode for $50 doesn't need any modifications to sound good. It's so comfy and well made. The sound quality is great if you want something warm and smooth


So stick to them, why even bother ?


----------



## Slater

Saoshyant said:


> Give me a pen and I'll go stabbing.  That'll teach em.



Haha, not in the UK though!


----------



## Slater (Oct 2, 2017)

vector84 said:


> I'm confused.  If KZ is subbing out the build to someone else... that someone else is the OEM and KZ are the designers in that relationship, yeah?



I used to manufacture my own automotive performance racing parts. I would do all of the design, engineering, prototyping, and testing. Then I would sub the final machining and welding to one shop, the electroplating to another, the powder coating to yet another, source the fasteners from a different supplier, the packaging from someone else, etc.

Then when I was all done I would do the final assembly, marketing, sales, and vendor/end user support (as well as continual product development).

It’s how quite a bit of manufacturing takes place. I don’t see headphones being any different.

Some processes could be done in house - for example I did some of the welding and finishing work too because I had the equipment.

So if KZ has the CNC machines, they could make their own ZS6 shells for example. Maybe they do, maybe they contract it out. China is brimming at the seams with factories (and even whole cities) that specialize in cables, other that specialize in plastic casting, others that specialize in fasteners, etc. So there’s no shortage of specialty places you could sun contract out a part of the manufacturing process (to someone with more specialty in that area, of with a huge capital investment in machines, etc).

My philosophy was always “let me do what I do best, and I’ll let you do what you do best.”

But even if they source drivers from a supplier vs manufacturing them in-house, they almoat certainly do the design, engineering, and assembly in house. They certainly handle heir own sales and distribution themselves. They are also an ODM for other people.

That doesn’t make them any less respectable as a manufacturer in my book.

That’s what lean, JIT, etc manufacturing is all about.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 2, 2017)

I have a really bad habit of causing conversations to go sideways... I never meant to imply there was anything wrong there.

I was just musing on if QKZ might perhaps do some manufacturing for KZ, that's all.


And that given the market proliferation KZ have at their price point, it would seem to suggest they're at least heavily involved in the production of their BAs, which bear their own brand logo.  No idea about their DDs one way or the other.


----------



## kokakolia

vector84 said:


> I have a really bad habit of causing conversations to go sideways... I never meant to imply there was anything wrong there.
> 
> I was just musing on if QKZ might perhaps do some manufacturing for KZ, that's all.
> 
> ...



No. Thank you for making this thread a little more interesting. Otherwise, we'd mostly talk about wires and foam tips. That seems to be the general direction of this topic.


----------



## kokakolia

Superluc said:


> So stick to them, why even bother ?



Exactly. Sadly, I lost mine. And curiosity got the better of me, so now I'm ordering KZs. 

I think I said it before, but these KZs need to be compared to other similarly priced earphones. Only because the competition is tough and the hype is inflated. 

The Marshall Mode is definitely an underdog in every scenario. They had a lukewarm reception upon release because they were priced too high, at a $100. Now they're only $40~$50 and people are still not very interested. They have an unusual sound signature that's warm with slightly boomy bass and rolled off highs. Many people who like bright headphones (the majority of Head-fi, but I am only speculating) find this dull. They immediately disregard this earphone. But it's a solid performer! And the ergonomics are excellent. 

I am just saying that people should raise their expectations a little higher with the ZS6s because there's a lot of competition in the $50 category, and it's not made obvious on this forum. Just to throw one out there: Zero Audio Carbon Tenore. How does that compare? Shouldn't you just buy that over the ZS6?


----------



## snip3r77 (Oct 2, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Exactly. Sadly, I lost mine. And curiosity got the better of me, so now I'm ordering KZs.
> 
> I think I said it before, but these KZs need to be compared to other similarly priced earphones. Only because the competition is tough and the hype is inflated.
> 
> ...


You probably over analyse reviews. Most of us feels that the zs5v1 is good . Anyway at this price is already value for money . Can’t better than that.

Can you buy both and help us compare the carbon tenor ?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kokakolia said:


> I definitely see the irony. Because your Chi-Fi value IEM isn't a bargain anymore.
> 
> Honestly, something like a Marshall Mode for $50 doesn't need any modifications to sound good. It's so comfy and well made. The sound quality is great if you want something warm and smooth



Just because it didn't need mods doesn't mean it's better than what I ended up with now. The important thing is the result. You must not spend any time around IEMs if you think changing tips/cables is some unacceptable sin.


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> I am just saying that people should raise their expectations a little higher with the ZS6s because there's a lot of competition in the $50 category, and it's not made obvious on this forum. Just to throw one out there: Zero Audio Carbon Tenore. How does that compare? Shouldn't you just buy that over the ZS6?


The problem, and it's a big one, is that we simply don't know how they sound, without try them...  

At now, thinking about broken cables and microphonics, i'm much more incline to buy IEM's with exchangeable cable and over-the-ear fit, in this category or more pricier stuff.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Superluc said:


> The problem, and it's a big one, is that we simply don't know how they sound, without try them...
> 
> At now, thinking about broken cables and microphonics, i'm much more incline to buy IEM's with exchangeable cable and over-the-ear fit, in this category or more pricier stuff.



One of my biggest issues with the 1More Quads is the lack of exchangeable cable. I'm having some crackling issues and it's really bothering me.

And y'know, that's the nice thing about the KZ's. You can swap crap out and tune the sound. It's not "modifying" or anything.


----------



## Slater (Oct 2, 2017)

vector84 said:


> I have a really bad habit of causing conversations to go sideways... I never meant to imply there was anything wrong there.
> 
> I was just musing on if QKZ might perhaps do some manufacturing for KZ, that's all.
> 
> ...




Oh, I was just adding to the general conversation about KZs manufacturing in general. I wasn’t trying to single you out due to anything you said or anything like that. I was on my phone and multi quote never seems to work properly, so your message just happened to be the one I quoted in my reply.

I’m glad that we can all come together and discuss multiple aspects of KZ - good, bad, or otherwise.


----------



## Wiljen

The more I listen to the Zs6 the more it reveals.  The details are better than I had originally given them credit for.  Case in point, in listening to the Doobie Brothers Long Train running the guitar echos off the studio wall in the instrumental section that starts at 2:47 in.  The Zs6 delivers that echo well and clearly.  Nothing in my collection below the level of the Fostex T50Rp mod comes close to producing that level of detail.    I have previously mentioned that I do have some eq applied to level the treble out. The nice thing with these is it is not immediately evident that I have the eq applied like it is on a lot of earphones.  These take eq well and naturally without a lot of artificial sounding side effects.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wiljen said:


> The more I listen to the Zs6 the more it reveals.  The details are better than I had originally given them credit for.  Case in point, in listening to the Doobie Brothers Long Train running the guitar echos off the studio wall in the instrumental section that starts at 2:47 in.  The Zs6 delivers that echo well and clearly.  Nothing in my collection below the level of the Fostex T50Rp mod comes close to producing that level of detail.    I have previously mentioned that I do have some eq applied to level the treble out. The nice thing with these is it is not immediately evident that I have the eq applied like it is on a lot of earphones.  These take eq well and naturally without a lot of artificial sounding side effects.



That tips/cables are you using? 

I'm still tip rolling but I admit that I'm pretty impressed so far. I think once I get the right combo these will be my daily drivers. There's just something they've got going.


----------



## Spelaeus

kokakolia said:


> No. Thank you for making this thread a little more interesting. Otherwise, we'd mostly talk about wires and foam tips. That seems to be the general direction of this topic.



Personally I find that foam wires really help to cut down on the overly strident treble. And the rest of the frequency range too.


----------



## Skullophile

I'm thinkin' the diverse opinion on the Zs5 is to do with mainly one thing.

(1) Where you are on your audio reproduction journey, we are all at different points of our journey with different experience and equipment levels.
There is a general consensus that they are V or at least U shaped. Some like the bass quality some find it one note and sloppy. Some like the treble and some find it shrill and peaky.
Nobody talks about the mids though. lol
It's amazing the variety of H-Fiers that have had a taste of the Zs5, some savour the taste and texture and others spit out chunks of audio stew in disgust. (I'd say there's a lot more positive comments than each negative one).
Maybe they get the attention because of their design, maybe it's just KZ have been making some interesting budget stuff.

A few weeks ago I ripped the wires from the DD and the BA that are covered in blue gunk and the iem still works. I did the wire snipping on one side only and have heard no real difference between the sides.
The DD and BA that are further away from the nozzle don't contribute to the sound in any way or if they do it's a very small difference and I can't hear it.

Tomorrow i'm gonna rip the BA out of the nozzle and see if that does anything to the sound. It might make the IEM much less congested. (pun intended).
Either way between the excruciating fit and the sound that matches the fit, these things are going to leave my stable in a body bag. Not to mention the feeling of being duped by a 4 driver per side claim.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Look what just came in today!!



Spoiler












Can't wait to give these a shot.  First time using foamies, and $9 for 20 pairs is a pretty damn good price.


----------



## CoiL

vector84 said:


> I could've sworn I'd seen tips that looked rather like that before and your comment about only coming in one size helped me figure out where:
> http://m.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/shop/accessories/C5-headphones/C5-Ear-Tip-Set-Small.html
> 
> Though the earphones off ali option is still a more economical choice



Thanks for info. Didn`t know B&W had such tips. Too expensive though.


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> Look what just came in today!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine came in a few days ago as well.

A steal of a price, especially when they can be customized (I got half red and half blue, in a number of different nozzle sizes - even a few smalls). The seller was very accommodating.


----------



## CoiL

Skullophile said:


> I'm thinkin' the diverse opinion on the Zs5 is to do with mainly one thing.
> 
> (1) Where you are on your audio reproduction journey, we are all at different points of our journey with different experience and equipment levels.
> There is a general consensus that they are V or at least U shaped. Some like the bass quality some find it one note and sloppy. Some like the treble and some find it shrill and peaky.
> ...



I`m sorry that ZS5 isn`t Your cup of tea. I would call it slightly U-shaped with near-neutral mids (not recessed, nor good enough). 
I`ve been listening to ZS5 lately with longer sessions and honestly, the most "disturbing fault" I can find is in bass and percussion tightness and punch - that`s the main reason I like my FF-mod ATE more than ZS5v1 and additionally ATE mids are more "liquid" and present. Though, ZS5v1 has it totally ok and it isn`t fault someone should avoid buying it. 

Will do some mods soon to my ZS5v1 to improve bass/percussion presence and tightness (but not raise quantity much).


----------



## Wiljen

SomeGuyDude said:


> That tips/cables are you using?
> 
> I'm still tip rolling but I admit that I'm pretty impressed so far. I think once I get the right combo these will be my daily drivers. There's just something they've got going.



Comply isolation 400 foams and the silver upgrade cable from amazon (Here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074H8Y76X/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)


----------



## djmakemynight

SomeTechNoob said:


> Look what just came in today!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> Mine came in a few days ago as well.
> 
> A steal of a price, especially when they can be customized (I got half red and half blue, in a number of different nozzle sizes - even a few smalls). The seller was very accommodating.



Links guys, links. Share the love.


----------



## Spelaeus

SomeTechNoob said:


> Look what just came in today!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I purchased the same tips and received them two weeks ago. After my Complys started shredding I just couldn't stomach paying so much for them again. So far my first pair is holding up well and I notice no difference in function between them and the Complys. The only slight difference is that they seem to grip the barrel of the ZS5 slightly less tightly. The bore may be ever so slightly wider. I haven't had the tips come off in my ears or anything, they are just slightly easier to remove from the IEM. I always had to worry about the Complys tearing when taking them on and off.


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> Mine came in a few days ago as well.
> 
> A steal of a price, especially when they can be customized (I got half red and half blue, in a number of different nozzle sizes - even a few smalls). The seller was very accommodating.


Could you mix, for example, t200 and t400/500?
Thanks.in advance, mate.


----------



## CoiL

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread.726229/page-5


----------



## Slater

djmakemynight said:


> Links guys, links. Share the love.



I've shared it a number of times before. But here it is again: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40p...-memory-foam-eartips-for-ear/32749908913.html


----------



## Slater

zozito said:


> Could you mix, for example, t200 and t400/500?
> Thanks.in advance, mate.



I did. I mixed the heck out of my order (OD, ID, and colors), and the seller got it all spot on. I have enough foam tips now to last me for the rest of my life.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So I think I've adjusted to the sound sig (or burn-in became real), and the silver-plated cable plus comply T-400 foams have made the ZS6 sound just like I wanted. More sibilant than the ZS5v1 but there's a case to be made that the v1 was too bass tilted anyway. 

A barometer for my ears (again, MY ears) is when albums I listen to don't all sound uneven in the same way. Production varies like mad in metal, so if I get a handful that sound too bassy, a handful that sound too trebly, that tells me that for my personal tastes I'm doing well.


----------



## groucho69

vector84 said:


> And more to the point - what does all of this mean in relation to the post I linked earlier?
> 
> For some context, the question is if the shop would be stocking the new KZ S3.
> The first response reads "This is actually not on the newest products, it is the weihuo product foreign trade OEM , so you can see it's price is very low [...]"
> ...



And that is the first thing that I asked you. LOL. Too far off topic.


----------



## HungryPanda

Giving the ES3 some love today with Lana Lane


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> I've shared it a number of times before. But here it is again: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40p...-memory-foam-eartips-for-ear/32749908913.html


That's cool Slater, but how do you customize the orders?


----------



## zozito

Fox2twenty said:


> That's cool Slater, but how do you customize the orders?


Just send a message to seller.


----------



## Fox2twenty

zozito said:


> Just send a message to seller.


Ohhhhh. That's good service.


----------



## TimeSnow

Just ordered some colorful ZSTs and... ZS5s.

Very curious about those..

Will then decide on trying some ZS6s.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Look in your ZS5 for one or two BAs. If there's 1, the ZS6 will be a big difference.


----------



## 1clearhead

CoiL said:


> I`m sorry that ZS5 isn`t Your cup of tea. I would call it slightly U-shaped with near-neutral mids (not recessed, nor good enough).
> I`ve been listening to ZS5 lately with longer sessions and honestly, *the most "disturbing fault" I can find is in bass and percussion tightness and punch* - that`s the main reason I like my FF-mod ATE more than ZS5v1 and additionally ATE mids are more "liquid" and present. Though, ZS5v1 has it totally ok and it isn`t fault someone should avoid buying it.
> 
> Will do some mods soon to my ZS5v1 to improve bass/percussion presence and tightness (but not raise quantity much).


+1 Wow!...I honestly think the same thing! Plus, I do get distortion when I want to hear the ZS5 a little louder. I might open them up one day and eliminate the smaller dynamic drivers just to see if this is the cause of the distortion. I think the small drivers are sealed too tight against the plastic wall with nowhere to rumble the bass, so it distorts. This is just my theory.

I do own a pair of gray and blue ZS5 (V1) and they do distort exactly at the same amount of volume, so I have to probably decide which one to attempt this small project, when I make time.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Y'all sure about this distortion thing? What are you using to power? Because I've hooked mine up to a Mojo and even at stupid volumes (like when I accidentally left it up too high from using harder to drive IEMs) they didn't distort.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeGuyDude said:


> Y'all sure about this distortion thing? What are you using to power? Because I've hooked mine up to a Mojo and even at stupid volumes (like when I accidentally left it up too high from using harder to drive IEMs) they didn't distort.


Yeah. I listen to the zs5 in the "red" on Samsung S7edge


----------



## HiFiChris

Fox2twenty said:


> Yeah. I listen to the zs5 in the "red" on Samsung S7edge



It might be the S7 Edge.

I remember the Galaxy S4 (that I used to have - bad mobile phone, really bad mobile phone for most of my (non-audio) needs) ran into distortion with low impedance loads (which most IEMs are). If that hasn't changed with the S7, then it might be your phone that is distorting (could be the ZS5 as well, but I suspect it's the mobile phone).


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 3, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> Yeah. I listen to the zs5 in the "red" on Samsung S7edge



I have the same cellphone. Absolutely no distortion even in max.volume on my ZS5's. Ain't it problem with song/album? Some albums on high volume levels sounds very harsh and unlistenable (Loudness war era).
EDIT: Have you tried to "tune" the sound with advanced features of the S7E such as Adapt sound or UHQ, or PRO amplifier?


----------



## ReBreaker (Oct 3, 2017)

I have done @Slater 's ZST mod a couple days ago. Man, you really hitted the spot... The ZSTs were sincerely my drawer's unit for a long time, mainly due to it's piercing highs... The mod changed the game and after a couple of sound sessions I have to say that I have changed them for my modded ZS5 v1 for a while...  Do you think that the mod would be beneficial to ZS5's nozzle BA as well or did you try it yet?


----------



## AudioAw2015 (Oct 3, 2017)

So, my ER4 came back from the shop and I'll be going back to it as my daily so I probably won't be using my ZS5 anymore. To those curious about what's inside and to put the questions to rest, I decided to open them up to see what the fuss is all about.




 This is the V1, so the wirings maybe different compared to the V2.

Before opening them, I went ahead and remove the metal mesh filter. Based on what I heard, the entire soundstage and overall signature is shaped by the filter. Removing it would be detrimental to the overall sound.

Next, I went on to prying it open and started cutting the wires one by one to see what I'm getting out of the drivers.

From what I heard:

The Inner BA Driver either does nothing, or as KZ claims, reproduces ultra high frequencies that I certainly can't hear.

The small dynamic driver does actually contribute to the sound, but an incredibly small amount considering what it is technically capable of. It only handles the part between 1khz to 3khz, about where the mids starts peaking. The effect is hard to notice unless your're aqquainted with the original sound.

The BA at the nozzle does indeed work as intended, and it only handles the higher frequencies, especially the mountainous peaks at 7khz and 10khz. This is where all that treble energy comes from.

Finally, the large dynamic, being a full range, handles most of the work. The entire response is handled by this driver, and funny enough, after removing everything from the nozzle and listening to the dynamic itself, they produce a pretty enjoyable sound.


----------



## TimeSnow (Oct 3, 2017)

Can someone have a look at Amazon.CO.UK and tell me which foam tips will fit the ZS5?

And is that the same size as I need for the ZST, etc?

Basically what size am I looking for? Or is there a comply model that will work?


----------



## Slater

zozito said:


> Just send a message to seller.





Fox2twenty said:


> Ohhhhh. That's good service.



Yup, for example I sent him the below order message in the format of "*QTY, Model (ie ID), color, size (ie OD)"*. I figured he'd screw it up, but he got it perfectly:

4pcs/2 pairs T200 BLUE MEDIUM
4pcs/2 pairs T200 RED MEDIUM
4pcs/2 pairs T300 BLUE MEDIUM
4pcs/2 pairs T300 RED MEDIUM
6pcs/3 pairs T200 BLUE SMALL
6pcs/3 pairs T200 RED SMALL
6pcs/3 pairs T300 BLUE SMALL
6pcs/3 pairs T300 RED SMALL
20pcs/10 pairs T500 BLUE MEDIUM
20pcs/10 pairs T500 RED MEDIUM


----------



## Slater

ReBreaker said:


> I have done @Slater 's ZST mod a couple days ago. Man, you really hitted the spot... The ZSTs were sincerely my drawer's unit for a long time, mainly due to it's piercing highs... The mod changed the game and after a couple of sound sessions I have to say that I have changed them for my modded ZS5 v1 for a while...  Do you think that the mod would be beneficial to ZS5's nozzle BA as well or did you try it yet?



Glad it worked out for you. I use my ZST every day for bike riding because I like them so much with the mod.

I think it would certainly be beneficial to tune the ZS5 and the ZS6 to your individual taste. The method would be the same as the ZST mod. The only difference is that the nozzle screen is glued on with the ZS5 but just peel-n-stick with the ZS6.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Glad it worked out for you. I use my ZST every day for bike riding because I like them so much with the mod.
> 
> I think it would certainly be beneficial to tune the ZS5 and the ZS6 to your individual taste. The method would be the same as the ZST mod. The only difference is that the nozzle screen is glued on with the ZS5 but just peel-n-stick with the ZS6.



where are the details on this mod?  I seem to have missed it somewhere.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> where are the details on this mod?  I seem to have missed it somewhere.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650



Thanks, much appreciated.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> Thanks, much appreciated.



Sure, no problem. Let me know if you have any questions or have any trouble with the mod. It really is east to do, and completely reversible. Just make sure you use the right kind of foam. I outline different options for the correct foam in that post.


----------



## Fox2twenty

HiFiChris said:


> It might be the S7 Edge.
> 
> I remember the Galaxy S4 (that I used to have - bad mobile phone, really bad mobile phone for most of my (non-audio) needs) ran into distortion with low impedance loads (which most IEMs are). If that hasn't changed with the S7, then it might be your phone that is distorting (could be the ZS5 as well, but I suspect it's the mobile phone).


I meant no distortion. Probably means a portable amp would be good.


----------



## Fox2twenty

TJK81 said:


> I have the same cellphone. Absolutely no distortion even in max.volume on my ZS5's. Ain't it problem with song/album? Some albums on high volume levels sounds very harsh and unlistenable (Loudness war era).
> EDIT: Have you tried to "tune" the sound with advanced features of the S7E such as Adapt sound or UHQ, or PRO amplifier?


No distortion. But where do you get to all those eq settings?? {my point was that I listen loud}


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> I meant no distortion. Probably means a portable amp would be good.



Portable amps are always good :0)


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> Yup, for example I sent him the below order message in the format of "*QTY, Model (ie ID), color, size (ie OD)"*. I figured he'd screw it up, but he got it perfectly:
> 
> 4pcs/2 pairs T200 BLUE MEDIUM
> 4pcs/2 pairs T200 RED MEDIUM
> ...


By the way...any difference between t400 and t500?


----------



## Fox2twenty

zozito said:


> By the way...any difference between t400 and t500?


Yeah, what's the difference?


----------



## mrmoto050

Fox2twenty said:


> Yeah, what's the difference?


Nozzle size


----------



## Fox2twenty

mrmoto050 said:


> Nozzle size


Ahhh ha. But I thought T400s were for 4-5mm? I guess t500 must be 5-6?


----------



## Slater (Oct 3, 2017)

zozito said:


> By the way...any difference between t400 and t500?



Not as far as that seller is concerned.

They refer to T400/T500 as the same 4.9mm ID.

So if you’re ordering from that seller I linked, feel free to use that nomenclature interchangeably.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I got T500 Medium Blacks from the seller.

I've been using them for half a day and they seem decent.  It's a bit harder to put the ZS5 in my ear at first.  The foam needs to compress a bit before I can insert it fully.  Usually stuffing it in my ear will get the job done though.

Mid bass bloat is pulled back a bit I think.  It doesn't bleed into the mids as much as it used to.  I think treble is tamed somewhat as well.  Honestly I like the sound out of both the stock starlines and these foamies, so no issues for me.  The foamies have a bit more sound isolation as expected, although still not spectacular since the ZS5 is vented.


----------



## trumpethead

SomeTechNoob said:


> Look what just came in today!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Link Please..


----------



## SomeTechNoob

trumpethead said:


> Link Please..


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1511#post-13759990


----------



## Fox2twenty




----------



## SomeGuyDude

Call it burn-in, call it brain adjustment, call it whatever. KZ upgrade cable + ZS6 + foam tips = my new daily driver.


----------



## Ynot1 (Oct 3, 2017)

I just listened to es3 over kz bluetooth and it works phenomenal. I think I was mislead before that it was only ok.
But 2 things. Accessport still sounded better on es3. And walnut v2 sounds bad with es3.

And I made an assumption that I think makes sense to comments about zs5 distortion at high volume.
As you increase dd size the risk for distortion grows. 10mm dd might be a limit before distion comes too easily.
But the bigger dd seems to make the sound much bigger. I could only imagine what goes on with planar iem.
I think I found a needle in the haystack that distorts es3, one song on left piece.

And the detachable two pin plugs are very difficult to insert. Good for secure fit.. But creates incentive to just get a second earphone instead.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Ynot1 said:


> As you increase dd size the risk for distortion grows.



I'm... not sure you understand how distortion works.


----------



## Ynot1

As you increase surface area, it is harder to cheap the surface from breaking up.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Ynot1 said:


> As you increase surface area, it is harder to cheap the surface from breaking up.



That's not even slightly how it works unless you're dealing with incredibly crap speakers with paper cones. And when you're talking about speakers measured in millimeters it's even more irrelevant.


----------



## Ynot1

It's late I'm turning in. Let's for sake of time say I prolly need some explanation tomorrow.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Ynot1 said:


> It's late I'm turning in. Let's for sake of time say I prolly need some explanation tomorrow.



Well, no. This is just incorrect. They aren't distorting because of driver size LMAO. That's simply wrong. Distortion would be from the speakers attempting to drive more than they're capable of, getting a square wave, or other motor-related issues. Driver flex is completely different. As long as the speakers are getting a clean signal and not being overdriven, they ain't gonna distort.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeGuyDude said:


> Well, no. This is just incorrect. They aren't distorting because of driver size LMAO. That's simply wrong. Distortion would be from the speakers attempting to drive more than they're capable of, getting a square wave, or other motor-related issues. Driver flex is completely different. As long as the speakers are getting a clean signal and not being overdriven, they ain't gonna distort.


My left ear is full of water right now... It sometimes sounds like driver flex!


----------



## muimui7252001

Slater said:


> Sure, no problem. Let me know if you have any questions or have any trouble with the mod. It really is east to do, and completely reversible. Just make sure you use the right kind of foam. I outline different options for the correct foam in that post.



Hello, can I use the form tips like this one ? 

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...e?N=4745+8691809+3294529207+3294754077&rt=rud


----------



## Fox2twenty

muimui7252001 said:


> Hello, can I use the form tips like this one ?
> 
> http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...e?N=4745+8691809+3294529207+3294754077&rt=rud


Lol  I don't think so, those are ear plugs.


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> Not as far as that seller is concerned.
> 
> They refer to T400/T500 as the same 4.9mm ID.
> 
> So if you’re ordering from that seller I linked, feel free to use that nomenclature interchangeably.


Thank you, mate.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> +1 Wow!...I honestly think the same thing! Plus, I do get distortion when I want to hear the ZS5 a little louder. I might open them up one day and eliminate the smaller dynamic drivers just to see if this is the cause of the distortion. I think the small drivers are sealed too tight against the plastic wall with nowhere to rumble the bass, so it distorts. This is just my theory.
> 
> I do own a pair of gray and blue ZS5 (V1) and they do distort exactly at the same amount of volume, so I have to probably decide which one to attempt this small project, when I make time.


No distortion with my ZS5v1. I`m listening with HW&FW modded iBasso DX5X. Nor my desk setup distorts with ZS5v1.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 4, 2017)

Slater said:


> I think it would certainly be beneficial to tune the ZS5 and the ZS6 to your individual taste. The method would be the same as the ZST mod. The only difference is that the nozzle screen is glued on with the ZS5 but just peel-n-stick with the ZS6.



Will mod my ZSTc & ZS5v1 for sure. Actually I think ZST will turn out better because of W-shaped signature instead U-shaped ZS5.
Though, I will try to find and use more accurate method for everyone since getting right amount foam and using same structure foam for everyone is hard to get right.


----------



## Andre Sayson

SomeGuyDude said:


> Call it burn-in, call it brain adjustment, call it whatever. KZ upgrade cable + ZS6 + foam tips = my new daily driver.



Hi there, could you tell me if the sound leaks through the grille? Ordered my pair but they're still on the way


----------



## Superluc (Oct 4, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> But 2 things. Accessport still sounded better on es3. And walnut v2 sounds bad with es3.


For what i have read, the output impedance of the walnut is 100 ohm, so is not suited for this kind of IEM, without some adapter, like an ear buddy or a portable amp with near one/zero ohm on the output.

I think that, if i like how the ZS6 respond on mine Fulla 2, maybe i could try to buy a Zishan V2, but not without put my Topping between the KZ and the LO output of the source, for the same problem.

Walnut and Zishan are bargains but designed for demanding headphones.


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 4, 2017)

Just took delivery of the ZS5 which I grabbed from Gearbest from the US$16.99 flash sale almost a week ago.

It is the Version 2 with the twin BA in the nozzle.  I checked more than once to be absolutely sure.

Its not been burned in but first impression OOTB for a 15min listen is that these are not treble cannons. At least not to my ears. Played back on LG G6 (Quad DAC), using FLAC files. 

Strange as it seems, but the impression I get here is that the overall balance of bass versus treble is more to my liking compared to Version 1 which I tried previously, though bass seems to be still a little heavier than my most preferred levels. Shall report again maybe over the weekend after I have given it a basic 24hr burn-in and running through my usual playlist.   Meanwhile, it seems promising.


----------



## Slater (Oct 4, 2017)

muimui7252001 said:


> Hello, can I use the form tips like this one ?
> 
> http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...e?N=4745+8691809+3294529207+3294754077&rt=rud



You can use tips like those to make hybrid silicone/foam tips (like Symbios or old school Sony Hybrids):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/increase-the-isolation-on-your-silicone-tips.472643/#post-6402708

And yes, you can technically make eartips out of foam earplugs. It's been done by numerous members:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/homemade-foam-ear-tips-for-iems.169789/#post-2010436
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-foam-ear-tips.582906/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/help-with-diy-foam-tips-for-iems-half-work-done.472974/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/er6-earplug-foam-mod.119671/#post-1403569


----------



## Superluc

Superluc said:


> maybe 4, when it comes, if the info of some cable's seller are true.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BZ01BrBFvjc/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio



> Waiting for new KZ launches? Probably gotta be more patient for it then ... ZS4 and ZSR will probably be long still, month end or early November will likely be the new expected launch date.



So it seem that the ZS3 hybrid will be called ZS4.


----------



## Viber

Just got them!
I think this should be their theme song:


----------



## Fox2twenty

Viber said:


> Just got them!
> I think this should be their theme song:



For sure, they look good in black.


----------



## vector84

If anyone's particularly interested... there's some posts in the Dunu DN-2000J thread about their dampers, a few people suggested they were the inner core of a regular sized Knowles damper.

Mind you I have no idea if they'd fit here but it's a better answer to what's going on there...


----------



## Ynot1

I have not seen the insides of the KZ bluetooth cable, but I estimate there is a CSR chip and not only is aptx supported, I believe AAC is in there too.
Because even though my Vfree sounds bigger with bigger bass, the es3 has much better clarity going wirless using an ipad as source.
So the CSR chip must be doing pretty good with its own dac and amp built in.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Ynot1 said:


> I have not seen the insides of the KZ bluetooth cable, but I estimate there is a CSR chip and not only is aptx supported, I believe AAC is in there too.
> Because even though my Vfree sounds bigger with bigger bass, the es3 has much better clarity going wirless using an ipad as source.
> So the CSR chip must be doing pretty good with its own dac and amp built in.


Great news, I'm waiting on a BT cable for my ES3 from Gearbest.


----------



## Podster

Oh I'm so Jelli @Viber still waiting on mine tracking shows them in the air. Hoping that after market gold cables looks good on the black


----------



## TJK81

Fox2twenty said:


> No distortion. But where do you get to all those eq settings?? {my point was that I listen loud}



It's in basic settings... second option (called probably "sound&vibrations")... right on the bottom (called probably "sound quality and effects"). I'm translating Czech language to English. That's why probably. I'm too lazy to change whole phone to English language.


----------



## Viber (Oct 4, 2017)

So i'm listening to the KZ *ZS6* for over an hour now right out of the box, no special EQ, no mods, nothing.
I was a bit sad to get them after reading all of the critics here.

I've been spending the last hour trying to understand *how can such a gem get such bad impressions??!*

They really do sound like they are a level above all my other in-ears, i don't need EQ to tame any harshness because there isn't any. The bass is there in quantity in bassy tracks, yet is there in accuracy when it isn't called for. i like the decay of the bass.

-Most natural,versatile and fun sounding KZs I've tried (i tried ZS5\modded ZS5\ ZS3\ZSE\ATR).
-Passed bass rumble test.
-Passed rap test (rappers don't sound like they're rapping into a telephone like on other iems).
-Passed metal and wild electric guitars test--->"alright ZS6, you must fail when they play this song live"--> Live song sounds great as well.
-Sounds good in classical music.

ZS6 > Modded ZS5 > ZS5 ~= ZS3 > ATR.

And yes, i cleaned my earwax before listening 





I really hope KZ won't make any revisions to this model in the future!


----------



## tworule

maxxevv said:


> Just took delivery of the ZS5 which I grabbed from Gearbest from the US$16.99 flash sale almost a week ago.
> 
> It is the Version 2 with the twin BA in the nozzle.  I checked more than once to be absolutely sure.
> 
> ...


 is it gray without mic?


----------



## mrmoto050

Fox2twenty said:


> Ahhh ha. But I thought T400s were for 4-5mm? I guess t500 must be 5-6?


If you go to Comply's website they have a chart matching each size to iEM's. Even if yours is not listed, you can see the different IEMs and match accordinly to what comes close to KZ model.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Viber said:


> So i'm listening to the KZ *ZS6* for over an hour now right out of the box, no special EQ, no mods, nothing.
> I was a bit sad to get them after reading all of the critics here.
> 
> I've been spending the last hour trying to understand *how can such a gem get such bad impressions??!*
> ...



Definitely glad yours sounded right! I think it's the bad cable some are shipping with because I'm not kidding, stock the thing was unlistenable. The treble was insanely hot. And I'm someone who defends the HD700.


----------



## Podster

Viber said:


> So i'm listening to the KZ *ZS6* for over an hour now right out of the box, no special EQ, no mods, nothing.
> I was a bit sad to get them after reading all of the critics here.
> 
> I've been spending the last hour trying to understand *how can such a gem get such bad impressions??!*
> ...



With the exception of that glue they really looked like they cleaned up the chassis I'm really liking what your reporting on them @Viber


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 4, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> I just listened to es3 over kz bluetooth and it works phenomenal. I think I was mislead before that it was only ok.
> But 2 things. Accessport still sounded better on es3. And walnut v2 sounds bad with es3.
> 
> And I made an assumption that I think makes sense to comments about zs5 distortion at high volume.
> ...


It's more than likely there isn't enough room for the Diaphram to expand inside of chamber? Or that you are ovedriving them.


----------



## Viber (Oct 4, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Definitely glad yours sounded right! I think it's the bad cable some are shipping with because I'm not kidding, stock the thing was unlistenable. The treble was insanely hot. And I'm someone who defends the HD700.



That's weird, i'm very sensitive to treble and high-mids yet i cant seem to find a problem with the ZS6.
I tried many songs\tracks and the hottest treble i encountered with the ZS6 was in "Ace Of Base - The Sign" and even there - it was only annoying, it wasn't insufferable.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Viber said:


> That's weird, i'm very sensitive to treble and high-mids yet i cant seem to find a problem with the ZS6.
> I tried many songs\tracks and the hottest treble i encountered with the ZS6 was in "Ace Of Base - The Sign" and even there - it was only annoying, it wasn't insufferable.



Like I said, methinks you just got a better stock cable. Mine were nigh-unlistenable and I rarely have an issue with some hot treble. They were the most sibilant headphones I'd ever tried.

A cable swap later and they're golden, so my current assessment is the ZS6 is fantastic, just some units shipped with a crap cable.


----------



## Slater

Ynot1 said:


> I have not seen the insides of the KZ bluetooth cable, but I estimate there is a CSR chip and not only is aptx supported, I believe AAC is in there too.
> Because even though my Vfree sounds bigger with bigger bass, the es3 has much better clarity going wirless using an ipad as source.
> So the CSR chip must be doing pretty good with its own dac and amp built in.



I’ve posted photos of the chips. If you search for my KZ Bluetooth cable mod, you’ll find the post with pics.


----------



## CoiL

SomeGuyDude said:


> Like I said, methinks you just got a better stock cable. Mine were nigh-unlistenable and I rarely have an issue with some hot treble. They were the most sibilant headphones I'd ever tried.
> 
> A cable swap later and they're golden, so my current assessment is the ZS6 is fantastic, just some units shipped with a **** cable.


I`m wondering how that stock cable could turn ZS6 bright/harsh/sibilant ? Have You measured stock cable impedance and replacement cable? Maybe it is same case as with **** 4in1 which required higher impedance copper cable to sound not harsh in highs?
Anyway, interesting info, will keep my eye on ZS6 again and jump on flash deals.


----------



## Viber

SomeGuyDude said:


> Like I said, methinks you just got a better stock cable. Mine were nigh-unlistenable and I rarely have an issue with some hot treble. They were the most sibilant headphones I'd ever tried.
> 
> A cable swap later and they're golden, so my current assessment is the ZS6 is fantastic, just some units shipped with a **** cable.



Just a silly experiment you can try with that cable: hold down the button on the remote while you connect the ZS6 to your source, when music starts playing for the earphones stop pressing the button.


----------



## groucho69

Green ZS6 for $43 CAD at GB flash sale and GB points. Glad I canceled that Banggood order.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Andre Sayson said:


> Hi there, could you tell me if the sound leaks through the grille? Ordered my pair but they're still on the way


i haven't heard anyone say that the sound 'leaks through the grill. The drivers


maxxevv said:


> Just took delivery of the ZS5 which I grabbed from Gearbest from the US$16.99 flash sale almost a week ago.
> 
> It is the Version 2 with the twin BA in the nozzle.  I checked more than once to be absolutely sure.
> 
> ...


can you compare it to other iems in the under $100 price category.


----------



## maxxevv

tworule said:


> is it gray without mic?



Yes they are as they were the ones offered for that flash sale. Which was actually just nice as I prefer them without the microphone anyway.


----------



## Podster

groucho69 said:


> Green ZS6 for $43 CAD at GB flash sale and GB points. Glad I canceled that Banggood order.



Nice, wonder what kind of deals they are going to offer on the with the upcoming annual 11/11 sales


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Viber said:


> So i'm listening to the KZ *ZS6* for over an hour now right out of the box, no special EQ, no mods, nothing.
> I was a bit sad to get them after reading all of the critics here.
> 
> I've been spending the last hour trying to understand *how can such a gem get such bad impressions??!*
> ...


Your impressions on the zs6 was my highlight of the whole week lol. Based on all the negative impressions about harshness i was already regretting my purchase even before listening to them. I hope they sound as good to me as they do to you. How is the tonal balance on these? And please compare the bass, mids and treble to other iems that you own


----------



## Selenium




----------



## Fox2twenty

TJK81 said:


> It's in basic settings... second option (called probably "sound&vibrations")... right on the bottom (called probably "sound quality and effects"). I'm translating Czech language to English. That's why probably. I'm too lazy to change whole phone to English language.


Okay cool. Thanks


----------



## Fox2twenty

Viber said:


> That's weird, i'm very sensitive to treble and high-mids yet i cant seem to find a problem with the ZS6.
> I tried many songs\tracks and the hottest treble i encountered with the ZS6 was in "Ace Of Base - The Sign" and even there - it was only annoying, it wasn't insufferable.


Awesomeness. Good to hear.


----------



## Fox2twenty

mrmoto050 said:


> If you go to Comply's website they have a chart matching each size to iEM's. Even if yours is not listed, you can see the different IEMs and match accordinly to what comes close to KZ model.


OK cool. Thanks.


----------



## Viber (Oct 4, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> Your impressions on the zs6 was my highlight of the whole week lol. Based on all the negative impressions about harshness i was already regretting my purchase even before listening to them. I hope they sound as good to me as they do to you. How is the tonal balance on these? And please compare the bass, mids and treble to other iems that you own



I hope your ears will like them too.
I think the ZS6 has a fine tonal balance, i can't point my finger at any frequency of the spectrum and say that it takes the focal point of the song (unless the producer intended it to be).
When i hear a trance track the driving force is in the bass section like it should be, when i listen to Sarah Brightman i'm focused on her voice even though it's not _totally_ at the front.

I don't find the need to break it down to Bass,mids and treble when i compare them to other IEMs. All you need to know is that the ZS6 does everything well and that's a very rare thing in budget IEMs.  Other budget earphones can't do everything well, there's always a compromise. For example : The ZS3 has excellent isolation and fun bass, but lacks energy and presence in the highs. Unmodded ZS5 sounds phenomenal with some songs but only 'good' on other genres\songs because they have artificial extra highs which proves to be problematic with some recordings.

They're not 100% natural sounding, but music sounds like music with the ZS6 and that's a big step forward for KZ.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 4, 2017)

Viber said:


> I hope your ears will like them too.
> I think the ZS6 has a fine tonal balance, i can't point my finger at any frequency of the spectrum and say that it takes the focal point of the song (unless the producer intended it to be).
> When i hear a trance track the driving force is in the bass section like it should be, when i listen to Sarah Brightman i'm focused on her voice even though it's not _totally_ at the front.
> 
> ...


That is some real high praise. You are very right about budget iems always lacking big in a particular category. Xiaomi hybrid had good bass but lacked the mids. The piston 3 sounded too thick and warm with narrow sound stage. All other budget iems that i have tried (awei, remax but dont remember the exact model) lacks details, has loose bass and has a very strong v shaped sound signature.

I have a feeling the harsh treble that some users faced from the zs6 is probably due to qc issues with cable and has nothing to do with faulty driver/ tuning since two people in this thread fixed the harshness just by changing the cable. You are one of the lucky ones who got the good cable. The black zs6 looks real nice. Sadly the dispatch time on the black ones in gb were way longer than the red and green ones.


----------



## pauliunas

Are they all for bassheads? I'm looking for some more balanced IEMs... VE Monk+ is pretty good with single or double layer of thin foam, but it leaks sound too much and I would like to get something similar with better isolation. However, I don't like bass heavy headphones, so not sure if there's anything good for me in this price range...


----------



## Podster

Selenium said:


>



And here I was thinking they shipped them via Trinity's shipping center Oh not he didn't


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Fahim Foysal said:


> That is some real high praise. You are very right about budget iems always lacking big in a particular category. Xiaomi hybrid had good bass but lacked the mids. The piston 3 sounded too thick and warm with narrow sound stage. All other budget iems that i have tried (awei, remax but dont remember the exact model) lacks details, has loose bass and has a very strong v shaped sound signature.
> 
> I have a feeling the harsh treble that some users faced from the zs6 is probably due to qc issues with cable and has nothing to do with faulty driver/ tuning since two people in this thread fixed the harshness just by changing the cable. You are one of the lucky ones who got the good cable. The black zs6 looks real nice. Sadly the dispatch time on the black ones in gb were way longer than the red and green ones.



Exactly. The ZS6 (meaning the actual earpieces) are stellar. I even kinda like the star tips now and again when I don't feel like dealing with foams. The black housing just looks boss as hell, too.


----------



## Skullophile

Viber said:


> That's weird, i'm very sensitive to treble and high-mids yet i cant seem to find a problem with the ZS6.
> I tried many songs\tracks and the hottest treble i encountered with the ZS6 was in "Ace Of Base - The Sign" and even there - it was only annoying, it wasn't insufferable.


"I ssssaw the ssssign and it opened up my eyesss I ssssaw the ssssign".


----------



## Podster

Dang, Boss as Hell! Now your even teasing me @SomeGuyDude LOL Patiently waiting for my Black Beauties (Err pardon me Boss Blacks)





Let's call this the NX1sC3ZS5V1


----------



## Viber

Skullophile said:


> "I ssssaw the ssssign and it opened up my eyesss I ssssaw the ssssign".



haha, I was referring to that constant shaker in the back, don't remember any vocal sibilance bothering me in particular.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Skullophile said:


> "I ssssaw the ssssign and it opened up my eyesss I ssssaw the ssssign".


Reading this mentally is giving me a headache


----------



## Podster

Viber said:


> haha, I was referring to that constant shaker in the back, don't remember any vocal sibilance bothering me in particular.



I'm still trying to figure out if there was an annoying high or if we are just talking those lyrics in a drawl (I'm from Texas you know) LOL

OK, the silver gray don't work how about the old Blue & Gold (We talking iem and cable or the Boy Scout Banquet)


----------



## Fahim Foysal

SomeGuyDude said:


> Exactly. The ZS6 (meaning the actual earpieces) are stellar. I even kinda like the star tips now and again when I don't feel like dealing with foams. The black housing just looks boss as hell, too.


So can we get that zs6 vs zs5 v1 comparison now? I have been waiting for this since monday


----------



## Skullophile

Viber said:


> haha, I was referring to that constant shaker in the back, don't remember any vocal sibilance bothering me in particular.


That's a relief, could be a spike in the treble above the sibilance zone. What source are you using with your zs6's?


----------



## Viber

Skullophile said:


> That's a relief, could be a spike in the treble above the sibilance zone. What source are you using with your zs6's?



HRT HeadStreamer (Dac+Amp).


----------



## Vidal (Oct 4, 2017)

Based on ZS6 that have only a few hours playtime, I prefer the ZS5 V1.

ZS6 doesn't seem to have the same expansive soundstage and the treble is a bit intense. They're good but at the moment the ZS5 seem a better option. Trying to pin it down, the vocals seem further forward so you don't get that depth.

Tried interchanging the cables, it's not that with mine. Maybe they'll calm down, we'll see.


----------



## pauliunas

Hey, I'm considering the ZS5, but from what I've read, the "v1" version is much better than newer units. Any chance I could still get one of them?


----------



## Podster (Oct 4, 2017)

Viber said:


> HRT HeadStreamer (Dac+Amp).



"I approve this message"






@pauliunas I ordered from here on Aug. 31st and got V1's
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32813987238.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Z6Urku


----------



## Vidal

One final point ZS6 are more comfortable for me - that tiny change in the rear face seems to remove a pressure point.


----------



## Viber

Vidal said:


> One final point ZS6 are more comfortable for me - that tiny change in the rear face seems to remove a pressure point.



Just wish they would stop with that STUPID memory wire.


----------



## Terran Earthson

Hi everyone, after ZS3(which i sold)and ZST(which broke), i ordered ED9 for a change. ZS3 were a huge fun, warm, non fatiguing, but compared to ZST had less of clear mids and micro details, although zst were pretty harsh and sibilant, with the narrower soundstage, still i'm a huge fan of clear vocals, so was forced to stay with them.
So how do ED9 sound in comparison to zst-zs3?


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Vidal said:


> One final point ZS6 are more comfortable for me - that tiny change in the rear face seems to remove a pressure point.


Looks like kz did their research well. what are your views on the sound quality though?


----------



## Vidal

Fahim Foysal said:


> Looks like kz did their research well. what are your views on the sound quality though?



>>>>



Vidal said:


> Based on ZS6 that have only a few hours playtime, I prefer the ZS5 V1.
> 
> ZS6 doesn't seem to have the same expansive soundstage and the treble is a bit intense. They're good but at the moment the ZS5 seem a better option. Trying to pin it down, the vocals seem further forward so you don't get that depth.
> 
> Tried interchanging the cables, it's not that with mine. Maybe they'll calm down, we'll see.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Vidal said:


> One final point ZS6 are more comfortable for me - that tiny change in the rear face seems to remove a pressure point.


This is good news for me.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

pauliunas said:


> Hey, I'm considering the ZS5, but from what I've read, the "v1" version is much better than newer units. Any chance I could still get one of them?



Some people say that, others disagree. It's largely down to preference and your feeling of treble. I like the 6, and I have the v1, _and_ I'm not really a treble guy.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Oct 4, 2017)

Okay now I'm thinking there's a very brief burn-in with these. I swapped back to the stock cable and it doesn't seem nearly as strident as straight out of the box.

When I say brief, I mean like an hour or so, tops.

EDIT: stock is still splashier than the upgrade cable to my ears. I'm gonna keep swapping and see how much is in my head, but I'm still saying the stock cable is a bit crap. I wonder if it's because of the mic line.


----------



## Viber

SomeGuyDude said:


> Okay now I'm thinking there's a very brief burn-in with these. I swapped back to the stock cable and it doesn't seem nearly as strident as straight out of the box.
> 
> When I say brief, I mean like an hour or so, tops.
> 
> EDIT: stock is still splashier than the upgrade cable to my ears. I'm gonna keep swapping and see how much is in my head, but I'm still saying the stock cable is a bit crap. I wonder if it's because of the mic line.



Are you testing them with your phone?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Viber said:


> Are you testing them with your phone?



Phone, Mojo, straight out of the laptop. The usual suspects.


----------



## vector84

KZ's mics are pretty trashy, but I don't think that's the only reason the stock cable is so problematic.


You use electrically sound wires to carry a signal is so you can largely ignore all the stuff that gets peddled as snake oil... reactance, reflection, etc ... those things aren't *fake* they're just supposed to be orders of magnitude too small to notice in practice.  There is no guarantee of that when you don't use appropriate materials though.

There's no guarantee they will go bad either - most people will probably just get a few dB of volume loss... but there's no guarantee that that's all that happens.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Quite possible. I'm not sure what all is going on. It's definitely better than I recall it out of the box, but the upgrade cable is definitely less splashy.


----------



## Skullophile

SomeGuyDude said:


> Okay now I'm thinking there's a very brief burn-in with these. I swapped back to the stock cable and it doesn't seem nearly as strident as straight out of the box.
> 
> When I say brief, I mean like an hour or so, tops.
> 
> EDIT: stock is still splashier than the upgrade cable to my ears. I'm gonna keep swapping and see how much is in my head, but I'm still saying the stock cable is a bit crap. I wonder if it's because of the mic line.


Could be more about which iem you were listening to last. Burns that sound into your brain and then BAM anything else sounds weird.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Skullophile said:


> Could be more about which iem you were listening to last. Burns that sound into your brain and then BAM anything else sounds weird.



Also possible. Going from the v1 ZS5 straight to the ZS6 could have had me set up for failure because of how much less trebly those are. I'm still sticking with the upgrade cable and the spinfits, but I've got a feeling stock cable + comply foams could do just as good a job.


----------



## Keller2

Viber said:


> Just wish they would stop with that STUPID memory wire.


You can remove the memory wire but you cant add a new one. 

This sort of arrangement works since removing the memory wire is easy.


----------



## vector84

Keller2 said:


> You can remove the memory wire but you cant add a new one.


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


>


Cover them ?

Well, the stock cable dint have a memory wire, or i'm wrong ? To me it appear covered only with an heat-shrinkable tube.


----------



## vector84

Superluc said:


> Cover them ?
> 
> Well, the stock cable dint have a memory wire, or i'm wrong ? To me it appear covered only with an heat-shrinkable tube.


Not sure which stock cable you mean? Pretty much all replaceable KZ cables come with memory wires.

But I meant that as a method for adding a memory wire — as a reply to the comment that you can remove a memory wire, but not add a new one


----------



## SomeTechNoob

He means adding a memory wire shouldn't be that hard with heatshrink and a paperclip or similarly thin metal


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I can't imagine anyone voluntarily adding a memory wire.


----------



## VinceHill24

So many more impressioms coming but at the same time it seems even more confusing now. Now there's few possibility just to put things into perspective.

1. ZS6 is very source dependant. Different source could affect the sound especially how it reproduces the treble frequencies.

2. ZS6 is very cable dependant. Upgrade cable may have a different perceived sound particularly on its treble, giving a much improved sound than the regular stock cable (regardless of sound stock cable still sucks, too rubbery to wear)

3. ZS6 sound grows on the listeners the longer they're listening to it, mostly attributed to the highly probable brain burn-in as majority still reports hot treble on initial listen.

4. The most unwanted scenario, there are bad QC batches of ZS6 around whereby there's a very problematic treble peak that some had measured to be at 8k and 10k.

Regardless of the problems above which mostly revolves around the treble of ZS6, we pretty much have a consensus here about the bass sounds good.

Just to add some. I have a friend who got ZS6 a week back, his comments about treble is the same as mine on initial listening. I offered him to help the modding of it which i have made for my own unit, but he seems to be already enjoying it 1 week after and i don't think he still wants me to mod for him. So whatever burn-in it is, there's definitely some of these burn-ins going on. More inclined to think its brain burn-in


----------



## SomeGuyDude

4 seems the most unlikely because a few of us have done cable/tip swaps and everything turned out gravy. 

I'm hazy on 3 because I swear the treble was absolutely unlistenable at first, and that's something I never say, and within a few minutes I switched cables which definitely helped. I think it's a factor, just not a primary one.


----------



## vector84

Honestly most of this sounds like exactly the kind of impressions I would expect from a 10kHz spike like that...
Why?  Because it's likely partially a coupler resonance artifact in the first place - so depending on fit it may or may not be noticeable for a given individual.

Combine a touchy fit with some brain burn in - both in terms of getting used to the sound and getting used to getting the fit you want - and you get some comically broad swings in impressions.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Okay that's a bit above my pay grade, could you elaborate? Because that sounds kinda fascinating that this particular spike has other factors than raw tuning.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> Okay that's a bit above my pay grade, could you elaborate? Because that sounds kinda fascinating that this particular spike has other factors than raw tuning.


Honestly my understanding is pretty basic on the issue, but here goes:

Any system has resonance to it - frequencies at which it will continue to ring while excited by vibrations.  From what I can gather, a big part of the reason that IEC standards only extend to 10kHz is because coupler resonance can overwhelm actual measurements at higher frequencies.  If you head over to some of the threads where measurements are a common occurrence, there's frequent warnings to take any data past 7kHz with a grain of salt.  It's not that the data is untrue - it's not, the extra energy is indeed there, but its expression on a graph can be under/over emphasized by the resonance of the coupler being used to take the measurements (which varies depending on the actual air volume enclosed, in addition to the coupler's size, materials, etc), and even with the same coupler the resonance pattern isn't entirely fixed since the coupler has a fit aspect as well.

Likewise as you adjust your fit and change the enclosed air volume, you slightly shift the resonance frequencies you experience.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vector84 said:


> Honestly my understanding is pretty basic on the issue, but here goes:
> 
> Any system has resonance to it - frequencies at which it will continue to ring while excited by vibrations.  From what I can gather, a big part of the reason that IEC standards only extend to 10kHz is because coupler resonance can overwhelm actual measurements at higher frequencies.  If you head over to some of the threads where measurements are a common occurrence, there's frequent warnings to take any data past 7kHz with a grain of salt.  It's not that the data is untrue - it's not, the extra energy is indeed there, but its expression on a graph can be under/over emphasized by the resonance of the coupler being used to take the measurements (which varies depending on the actual air volume enclosed, in addition to the coupler's size, materials, etc), and even with the same coupler the resonance pattern isn't entirely fixed since the coupler has a fit aspect as well.
> 
> Likewise as you adjust your fit and change the enclosed air volume, you slightly shift the resonance frequencies you experience.



I do remember reading someone saying that high treble measurements were always a bit unreliable. Curious indeed. Could definitely explain some of the issues here. 

Regardless, these are turning into my faves currently.


----------



## vector84

Also someone more familiar with music theory can correct me here maybe but... I was under the impression that 10kHz is well outside the range of most fundamentals unless you're listening to like a pipe organ.  And doubling the power of a subtle overtone is still a very subtle change indeed - not a blaring 10kHz sine wave slamming into your ear with the fury of an unleashed banshee, which is what I feel like people are expecting from that measurement.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 4, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Honestly my understanding is pretty basic on the issue, but here goes:
> 
> Any system has resonance to it - frequencies at which it will continue to ring while excited by vibrations.  From what I can gather, a big part of the reason that IEC standards only extend to 10kHz is because coupler resonance can overwhelm actual measurements at higher frequencies.  If you head over to some of the threads where measurements are a common occurrence, there's frequent warnings to take any data past 7kHz with a grain of salt.  It's not that the data is untrue - it's not, the extra energy is indeed there, but its expression on a graph can be under/over emphasized by the resonance of the coupler being used to take the measurements (which varies depending on the actual air volume enclosed, in addition to the coupler's size, materials, etc), and even with the same coupler the resonance pattern isn't entirely fixed since the coupler has a fit aspect as well.
> 
> Likewise as you adjust your fit and change the enclosed air volume, you slightly shift the resonance frequencies you experience.


I would think that fit wouldn't really have much impact on resonance. If the frequency produced by the driver match the resonance frequency of the shell then you would get a high peak on that particular frequency. But considering the high frequency drivers are pointing straight at the eardrum through the nozzle, I dont see a way how resonance would be an issue. It could certainly be an issue in the zs5 v1 where one of the high frequency ba driver were pointing at the shell but no body had an issue with nuclear treble in those leading me to the conclusion that resonance wasn't an issue in zs5 v1 either.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> Also someone more familiar with music theory can correct me here maybe but... I was under the impression that 10kHz is well outside the range of most fundamentals unless you're listening to like a pipe organ.  And doubling the power of a subtle overtone is still a very subtle change indeed - not a blaring 10kHz sine wave slamming into your ear with the fury of an unleashed banshee, which is what I feel like people are expecting from that measurement.


Yes this is very true. Very very few instruments go above 10k


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> I would think that fit wouldn't really have much impact on resonance. If the frequency produced by the driver match the resonance frequency of the shell then you would get a high peak on that particular frequency. But considering the high frequency drivers are pointing straight at the eardrum through the nozzle, I dont see a way how resonance would be an issue. It could certainly be an issue in the zs5 v1 where one of the high frequency ba driver were pointing at the shell but no body had an issue with nuclear treble in those leading me to the conclusion that resonance wasn't an issue in zs5 v1 either.


I think you might be misunderstanding me - resonance in the IEM itself is something entirely different and has to do with the shape and materials of the IEM itself.  And you're right, that sort of resonance shouldn't be effected much by fit.

I'm talking about resonance in the IEM+coupler vs IEM+ear canal systems, which also include the air volume enclosed as well as the materials of the coupler / ear canal as variables.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> I think you might be misunderstanding me - resonance in the IEM itself is something entirely different and has to do with the shape and materials of the IEM itself.  And you're right, that sort of resonance shouldn't be effected much by fit.
> 
> I'm talking about resonance in the IEM+coupler vs IEM+ear canal systems, which also include the air volume enclosed as well as the materials of the coupler / ear canal as variables.


My bad. So you were talking about the resonance while taking measurements instead of actual resonance that might occur when wearing the iems?


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> My bad. So you were talking about the resonance while taking measurements instead of actual resonance that might occur when wearing the iems?


Precisely!


----------



## Fox2twenty

Interesting talk gentlemen.

I think the very first ZS6's were too hot and kz tried to recall them.

They probably got rid of the 8k spike but left the 10k spike for overtones. If I am understanding the discussion correctly.


----------



## snip3r77

Fox2twenty said:


> Interesting talk gentlemen.
> 
> I think the very first ZS6's were too hot and kz tried to recall them.
> 
> They probably got rid of the 8k spike but left the 10k spike for overtones. If I am understanding the discussion correctly.


No need to Guess, we need a hero to measure the FR


----------



## HiFiChris

Should be receiving the green version of the ZS6 (from the 2nd or whatever batch, at least it's definitely not the first the black one I measured is from) in the following days, and will then be able to see if they really have changed anything in that short period of time (rather doubt it).


----------



## hakuzen

zs6 arrived right now. not a hero, but in a few hours or so, my FR measurements of zs6, zs5 v1, and es3, will be available using different tips and cables.


----------



## snip3r77

hakuzen said:


> zs6 arrived right now. not a hero, but in a few hours or so, my FR measurements of zs6, zs5 v1, and es3, will be available using different tips and cables.





HiFiChris said:


> Should be receiving the green version of the ZS6 (from the 2nd or whatever batch, at least it's definitely not the first the black one I measured is from) in the following days, and will then be able to see if they really have changed anything in that short period of time (rather doubt it).



Getting interesting. Cool!


----------



## Viber

Keller2 said:


> You can remove the memory wire but you cant add a new one.
> 
> This sort of arrangement works since removing the memory wire is easy.



I removed it in the past and i can easily make a new memory wire in 5 minutes.
It's very hard for me to remove it though.


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> Not sure which stock cable you mean? Pretty much all replaceable KZ cables come with memory wires.
> But I meant that as a method for adding a memory wire — as a reply to the comment that you can remove a memory wire, but not add a new one


It's just that i have read someone say that, taking away the covering material on the rubber cable sold with the ZS3-5, they dint find a memory wire, but i haven't try myself. Maybe it's just me, but with good positioning, i think that the memory effect can help me maintain a firm seal.
Anyway, your advice is correct


----------



## hoerlurar

I receieved my es3 and bluetooth cable yesterday. seemed to have more bass than zst.
I also compared my zst colorful vs zst carbon, and found that the zst carbon had more tiresome treble. so i think I'll have to mod it if i want to use it.
My zst carbon was an earlier batch, where the cable didn't have memory wire.

So far i'm happy with the es3 coupled to the bluetooth cable


----------



## Fahim Foysal

hakuzen said:


> zs6 arrived right now. not a hero, but in a few hours or so, my FR measurements of zs6, zs5 v1, and es3, will be available using different tips and cables.


I am waiting eagerly for this. The level of eagerness is higher than the first time my girlfriend was coming over while my parents weren't home.


----------



## Podster

Superluc said:


> It's just that i have read someone say that, taking away the covering material on the rubber cable sold with the ZS3-5, they dint find a memory wire, but i haven't try myself. Maybe it's just me, but with good positioning, i think that the memory effect can help me maintain a firm seal.
> Anyway, your advice is correct



I can tell you for sure the factory ZS5 cable (black sheath covered wire) as well as both silver and gold after market KZ cables have memory wire.


----------



## robervaul

NEW KZ LP5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ble-Foldable-Headphones-1-2m/32834535456.html


----------



## jaydm99

robervaul said:


> NEW KZ LP5
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ble-Foldable-Headphones-1-2m/32834535456.html



It's not new


----------



## Gianluigib

Hy guys,  how can i open  the zs5 ??  Thanks


----------



## wastan

robervaul said:


> NEW KZ LP5
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ble-Foldable-Headphones-1-2m/32834535456.html



I always thought the LP3 sound was underrated. Are you going to compare these to any other Bluetooth?


----------



## Rilke

Hi, 

I am going to order the zs6 soon. I heard that the stock cable isn't good enough.  And I don't like the look of the upgraded braided cables ( it might be weird but aesthetics matters for me as I am going to use these in outside )  I was looking for a red plain cable  on the internet but I couldn't one .

I already have  a spare red cable ( without connectors though ) do you think I should go the diy ? Or is there someone who could make a custom one with a reasonnable price ( under $15 ) ?

Will these connector work ? https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/UE-p...lgo_pvid=2de5fb4c-4c92-4b08-8ee2-45ee2facb10b


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Rilke said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am going to order the zs6 soon. I heard that the stock cable isn't good enough.  And I don't like the look of the upgraded braided cables ( it might be weird but aesthetics matters for me as I am going to use these in outside )  I was looking for a red plain cable  on the internet but I couldn't one .
> 
> ...


From my understanding not all cables are bad. There are some which are faulty and others are just fine. You might want to get the zs6 delivered and if they sound fine then kudos as you just saved yourself 15 bucks.


----------



## Slater

Does anyone know what size driver is used in the KZ IE80?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> I can tell you for sure the factory ZS5 cable (black sheath covered wire) as well as both silver and gold after market KZ cables have memory wire.


That's pretty.


----------



## Rilke

Fahim Foysal said:


> From my understanding not all cables are bad. There are some which are faulty and others are just fine. You might want to get the zs6 delivered and if they sound fine then kudos as you just saved yourself 15 bucks.


Whats $15 bucks when you are saving $1170 with these KZ , lol


----------



## HiFiChris

Rilke said:


> Whats $15 bucks when you are saving $1170 with these KZ , lol



$1170?


----------



## Fox2twenty

wastan said:


> I always thought the LP3 sound was underrated. Are you going to compare these to any other Bluetooth?


I would like impressions, looking for a bt over ear set for the wife.


----------



## Rilke

HiFiChris said:


> $1170?



It's was a joke about these ZS6 being a "knockoff" of the $1200 CA Andromeda ...


----------



## Qualcheduno

Slater said:


> Does anyone know what size driver is used in the KZ IE80?


9mm according to this https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32802844133.html


----------



## Fox2twenty

HiFiChris said:


> $1170?


Yeah man. Multi armature phones used to be really expensive.


----------



## HiFiChris

Rilke said:


> It's was a joke about these ZS6 being a "knockoff" of the $1200 CA Andromeda ...



At first I though I got the joke and reference, however then I looked it up and saw that it's $1099 which got me confused whether I what I thought you were referring to was actually what you were referring to.

Anyway, the green one should be here tomorrow or on Monday, so I'll finally see whether it differs any bit from the black (presumably) first (or at least early) batch model I measured.


----------



## Fox2twenty

HiFiChris said:


> At first I though I got the joke and reference, however then I looked it up and saw that it's $1099 which got me confused whether I what I thought you were referring to was actually what you were referring to.
> 
> Anyway, the green one should be here tomorrow or on Monday, so I'll finally see whether it differs any bit from the black (presumably) first (or at least early) batch model I measured.


What if the measurements are the same, and some people just like it? That's possible as well...  but! I still think they will be different, that's my prediction!


----------



## Rilke

HiFiChris said:


> At first I though I got the joke and reference, however then I looked it up and saw that it's $1099 which got me confused whether I what I thought you were referring to was actually what you were referring to.
> 
> Anyway, the green one should be here tomorrow or on Monday, so I'll finally see whether it differs any bit from the black (presumably) first (or at least early) batch model I measured.


Dear friend In France, they cost much more :

http://www.son-video.com/Rayons/Ecouteurs-intra-auriculaires/Campfire-Audio-Andromeda.html

Anyway, could someone answer to my initial question


----------



## Superluc (Oct 5, 2017)

Rilke said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am going to order the zs6 soon. I heard that the stock cable isn't good enough.  And I don't like the look of the upgraded braided cables ( it might be weird but aesthetics matters for me as I am going to use these in outside )  I was looking for a red plain cable  on the internet but I couldn't one .
> 
> ...


Those connectors are 0.75 mm, like the ones used by KZ, but the joint seem different. Who knows if the connection may be stable.

At worst you can always cut the stock cable near the connectors, link the wires, and cover the connection, if you think you can do something not too visible.

Anyway, some KZ upgrade cables are far from ugly, but tastes are tastes


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> Those connectors are 0.75 mm, like the ones used by KZ, but the joint seem different. Who knows if the connection may be stable.
> 
> At worst you can always cut the stock cable near the connectors, link the wires, and cover the connection, if you think you can do something not to visible.
> 
> Anyway, some KZ upgrade cables are far from ugly, but tastes are tastes


The gold and silver look cool.


----------



## Superluc

I personally like this one and this


----------



## jaydm99

Can anyone upload a photo of the ZS5/ZS6 with the SPC v2, the one with metal connectors, worn on the ear? I think it's too bulky for me, I prefer the old connector/plug type because of the slim profile, if they only made them metal. It would be nice also if KZ would make a dark colored version just like what they did to the first upgrade cable.


----------



## Podster (Oct 5, 2017)

robervaul said:


> NEW KZ LP5
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ble-Foldable-Headphones-1-2m/32834535456.html



Interesting, still trying to figure out the 1.2 Meter cable on a Wireless headphone in the ad?

@Rilke that connector is female and looking at the ZS6 that Chris just posted the connectors should be male to slide down into the iem, same as ZS5

@Superluc I've got two of the first one ordered and one of the second one which does have the male connector. I've got that first one on my ZST already and it will fit the ZS5/6 but the male insertion part is too fat (No rude comments here please)! I'm thinking I can just file each side a little and it will go in on the ZS5/6

@Jay Magaling , I'm confused on the metal connector in which you speak. If it' this cable it's still plastic but just painted chrome


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> Interesting, still trying to figure out the 1.2 Meter cable on a Wireless headphone in the ad?
> 
> @Rilke that connector is female and looking at the ZS6 that Chris just posted the connectors should be male to slide down into the iem, same as ZS5
> 
> @Superluc I've got two of the first one ordered and one of the second one which does have the male connector. I've got that first one on my ZST already and it will fit the ZS5/6 but the male insertion part is too fat (No rude comments here please)! I'm thinking I can just file each side a little and it will go in on the ZS5/6


Just make it fit. You can do it.


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Interesting, still trying to figure out the 1.2 Meter cable on a Wireless headphone in the ad?
> 
> @Rilke that connector is female and looking at the ZS6 that Chris just posted the connectors should be male to slide down into the iem, same as ZS5
> 
> ...



RUDE? Me? Never.


----------



## Podster

groucho69 said:


> RUDE? Me? Never.



Another great gone @groucho69 , at least he has finally joined Gilda! All my favorite Mel Brooks actors are going fast and poor Mel lost Ann in '05. Reminds me once again I'm not getting any younger myself


----------



## Daemon11

Hey everyone, new member, but I have the KZ ZS5 (among others) and since the cable is detachable and with the current fall of 3.5mm jacks from phones (Pixel being the latest), is there a KZ compatible cable with a USB-C tip? If not, do you think it's inevitable at this point?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Daemon11 said:


> Hey everyone, new member, but I have the KZ ZS5 (among others) and since the cable is detachable and with the current fall of 3.5mm jacks from phones (Pixel being the latest), is there a KZ compatible cable with a USB-C tip? If not, do you think it's inevitable at this point?


I didn't think of this. But the BT cable is supposed to be good, mine is on the way.


----------



## Superluc

Daemon11 said:


> Hey everyone, new member, but I have the KZ ZS5 (among others) and since the cable is detachable and with the current fall of 3.5mm jacks from phones (Pixel being the latest), is there a KZ compatible cable with a USB-C tip? If not, do you think it's inevitable at this point?


On that kind of phones you need to add a portable DAC/AMP or use a bluetooth headphone. KZ, like fox said, sell this bluetooh adaptor.


----------



## Daemon11

I do have the bluetooth adapter, but quality isn't as good even with Aptx (it's not Aptx-HD is it?), hopefully they release a Blutooth 5.0 version soon. But USB-C actually has dedicated pins specifically for analog output, so you wouldn't need a DAC in that case.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Daemon11 said:


> I do have the bluetooth adapter, but quality isn't as good even with Aptx (it's not Aptx-HD is it?), hopefully they release a Blutooth 5.0 version soon. But USB-C actually has dedicated pins specifically for analog output, so you wouldn't need a DAC in that case.


Is BT 5.o already out?? Which phones use 5.o?


----------



## Superluc

Daemon11 said:


> But USB-C actually has dedicated pins specifically for analog output, so you wouldn't need a DAC in that case.


Oh... i dint know that. Good to know. 

So it only need an adapter male USB-C to female jack.


----------



## Daemon11

Fox2twenty said:


> Is BT 5.o already out?? Which phones use 5.o?


Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL have it, and LG V30 I believe


----------



## Fox2twenty

Daemon11 said:


> Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL have it, and LG V30 I believe


Dang, I was looking at note 8


----------



## Daemon11

Fox2twenty said:


> Dang, I was looking at note 8


Note 8 does as well!


----------



## Fox2twenty

Daemon11 said:


> Note 8 does as well!


Woo hoo!


----------



## Podster

@Jay Magaling , I stand corrected on the chrome connector cable, it is female!


----------



## Skullophile

Gianluigib said:


> Hy guys,  how can i open  the zs5 ??  Thanks


Just pop them open at the seams with a small screwdriver or spudger. Myself and some other members have popped them open, we can share our findings if you want.


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Another great gone @groucho69 , at least he has finally joined Gilda! All my favorite Mel Brooks actors are going fast and poor Mel lost Ann in '05. Reminds me once again I'm not getting any younger myself



There is an alternative to getting older.


----------



## Podster

LOL, I was thinking more along the lines of Dorian Grey and I promise you I would never look at the painting


----------



## Superluc

Podster said:


> @Jay Magaling , I stand corrected on the chrome connector cable, it is female!


No Podster, that type of connector is considered to be male. Connection's sexuality is easy: male put in , female take... just as nature. Well... maybe nature is a bit more complicate


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> No Podster, that type of connector is considered to be male. Connection's sexuality is easy: male put in , female take... just as nature. Well... maybe nature is a bit more complicate


Best comment all day.


----------



## Wiljen

Finally got it done - Zs6 review is up.   https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews 

HifiChris - I'd be interested in knowing if this matches your finding thus far.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> Finally got it done - Zs6 review is up.   https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews
> 
> HifiChris - I'd be interested in knowing if this matches your finding thus far.


Very cool, gonna read it right now.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Very cool, gonna read it right now.


Great review! So bass and Soundstage are better on the ZS6s than the ZS5's? They sounds awesome to me.


----------



## Wiljen

Fox2twenty said:


> Great review! So bass and Soundstage are better on the ZS6s than the ZS5's? They sounds awesome to me.



Soundstage is in incremental increase but the Bass is a big improvement.  Bass is tighter, more articulate, and has better extension.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> Soundstage is in incremental increase but the Bass is a big improvement.  Bass is tighter, more articulate, and has better extension.


BTW, I love guitar music.check out the thread in my signature. {fyi, it's mostly crap posting right now, feel free to contribute}


----------



## Wiljen

If you don't already love Joe Bonamassa - you should get acquainted.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> If you don't already love Joe Bonamassa - you should get acquainted.


Sounds legit. Unfortunately, imma have to wait until my left ear isn't infected.


----------



## Superluc (Oct 5, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> Finally got it done - Zs6 review is up.   https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews


On seller's page, is said that using the OSTRY 200/300 affect clarity and volume, exchange them for tonal correction and peak lowering. Did you have feel that countering ?


----------



## Wiljen

Superluc said:


> On seller's page, is said that using the OSTRY 200/300 affect clarity and volume, exchange them for tonal correction and peak lowering. Did you have feel that countering ?



The Ostry tips do lower the volume slightly but I didn't find any loss in clarity.  Granted, my first tests have been focused around the treble tuning and I have not had a chance to do extensive listening with them yet.    That opinion will probably continue to evolve, but I found the warnings on both volume loss and sound quality decay to be over-stated.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Is this what you guys are talking about?
..


----------



## Wiljen

yes


----------



## Wiljen

If you look at the graph the drop follows the curve of the original sound signature except where the decrease becomes significantly more pronounced at the 8kHz mark.  That matches the issue with the Zs6 pretty well as that is where it needs the most help.
s


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> If you look at the graph the drop follows the curve of the original sound signature except where the decrease becomes significantly more pronounced at the 8kHz mark.  That matches the issue with the Zs6 pretty well as that is where it needs the most help.
> s


Wow, sounds like these tips are perfect


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wiljen said:


> Finally got it done - Zs6 review is up.   https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews
> 
> HifiChris - I'd be interested in knowing if this matches your finding thus far.



Great write-up! I've definitely hit my sweet spot with the upgrade cable and foam tips, seems like whatever was going on before has been ironed out with that. Maybe the cable isn't making the difference I thought, but comply tips absolutely fix the unnatural metallic sound cymbals had with silicones. I have a few metal albums that were really awkward sounding with silicone that are just perfect foamed up.


----------



## snip3r77

Wiljen said:


> Soundstage is in incremental increase but the Bass is a big improvement.  Bass is tighter, more articulate, and has better extension.



Sound signature is still the same w/ respect to ZS5?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

snip3r77 said:


> Sound signature is still the same w/ respect to ZS5?



I'd say it's _generally_ the same, but with a few noteworthy differences. The bass is less boomy and the treble is quite a bit accented in the 8-10KHz area, which is why you're finding a bunch of us looking at ways to tamp it down. Foams did the job for me (and I still insist the cable helped but I'm starting to doubt myself). It's very much ZS5++ though.


----------



## snip3r77

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'd say it's _generally_ the same, but with a few noteworthy differences. The bass is less boomy and the treble is quite a bit accented in the 8-10KHz area, which is why you're finding a bunch of us looking at ways to tamp it down. Foams did the job for me (and I still insist the cable helped but I'm starting to doubt myself). It's very much ZS5++ though.



So basically it's hot on the treble as experienced in some of the earlier reviewers unless one EQs it or get a DAP/DAC which are warmer.
Personally I won't


----------



## SomeGuyDude

snip3r77 said:


> So basically it's hot on the treble as experienced in some of the earlier reviewers unless one EQs it or get a DAP/DAC which are warmer.
> Personally I won't



All I did was stick a set of comply foams on mine and that pretty much hammered out the issues. Keep in mind this was also coming from the ZS5 v1, not the v2.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

SomeGuyDude said:


> Great write-up! I've definitely hit my sweet spot with the upgrade cable and foam tips, seems like whatever was going on before has been ironed out with that. Maybe the cable isn't making the difference I thought, but comply tips absolutely fix the unnatural metallic sound cymbals had with silicones. I have a few metal albums that were really awkward sounding with silicone that are just perfect foamed up.


Can you please try a treble harsh track with the upgraded cable vs default one and let us know whether cable upgrade really does make a decent difference in muting the harsh treble. Try it with silicone so that you can hear the harshness better. I have already ordered foam tips with my zs6 but still confused on whether to order that cable or not.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Fahim Foysal said:


> Can you please try a treble harsh track with the upgraded cable vs default one and let us know whether cable upgrade really does make a decent difference in muting the harsh treble. Try it with silicone so that you can hear the harshness better. I have already ordered foam tips with my zs6 but still confused on whether to order that cable or not.



I'm struggling like crazy with that one. I'm almost at the point of saying the default cable with the foams provides a better balance but gah it's killing me bouncing around between 3 different sources, 4 different tip styles, and 2 different cables.

The couple of times I did a few swaps, I feel like the default cable's treble was still more strident and harsher than the upgraded, but I'm currently sitting here with foams and the stock cable and partially thinking that the amount of "treble muting" the foams do is better stock than upgraded cable. 

I'll say this: just throw them foams on there and odds are damn good you'll be right as rain.


----------



## HiFiChris

Rilke said:


> Dear friend In France, they cost much more :
> 
> http://www.son-video.com/Rayons/Ecouteurs-intra-auriculaires/Campfire-Audio-Andromeda.html
> 
> Anyway, could someone answer to my initial question



Yeah, the IEM is more expensive in Germany as well (taxes + the sellers also want their share), as with about every piece of hi-fi gear that is imported.

Anyway, I unfortunately cannot help you when it comes to the cable/connector.


----------



## HiFiChris

Fox2twenty said:


> What if the measurements are the same, and some people just like it? That's possible as well...



There is absolutely _nothing_ wrong with that. And I subjectively don't dislike the ZS6 at all (except for sometimes too much of that harshness and sibilance, even though I am treble-tolerant). I just say that objectively regarded, the treble elevation is (way?) too strong for many people to bear.


----------



## snip3r77

SomeGuyDude said:


> All I did was stick a set of comply foams on mine and that pretty much hammered out the issues. Keep in mind this was also coming from the ZS5 v1, not the v2.


I think tip rolling is fine , for me personally I don’t advocate eq ing


----------



## HiFiChris

Wiljen said:


> Finally got it done - Zs6 review is up.   https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews
> 
> HifiChris - I'd be interested in knowing if this matches your finding thus far.





> *Treble: *[...] I find that I need to adjust the graphic EQ on foobar down 6db at 8kHz and 8db at 10kHz to help tone down what can only be described as a hot treble. [...] _*Without the EQ adjustments, the cymbals tend to take on a metallic sound and the flute loses the softness Ian Anderson was known for. *_[...]
> 
> *Mids: *Once you get past the treble, you are rewarded with what I think is easily the best sounding IEM KZ has made to date. *Mids are well rendered.* Instrument separation is good, and presentation is more open than most. [...]



Yup, at least for many parts.

I think that -6 dB around 8 and -8 dB around 10 kHz are a good guideline - the ZS6 will then still have plenty of brightness, sparkle and fun, however without that strong, sibilant, harsh and metallig brightness to it.

Midrange tuning is definitely an improvement over the ZS5 v1.

And in terms of technical performance, the ZS6 is a good IEM as well. Imo it would have been an awesome model _in un-EQ'd stock form_ if the took the ZS5 v1's treble and combined it with the ZS6's midrange and lows.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

first measurements. ES3.

used a chi-pro rig (iec711 coupler, precision 1/2" mic + preamp, stand), creative emu-0404 adc, dac (+jds labs c5d amplifier). 94dBSPL (+-some error) @ 1kHz.
calibrated raw measurements (not compensated).

stock cables (with mic), and same thick silicone special tips (same tips for almost every iems, similar depth insertion, more in the deep side).
next posts, i'll compare to some silver plated copper cables, and foam tips. and in a few days, comparison with zst, zs5 and zs6.

Blue vs Purple (or unit 1 vs unit 2, i'd need another pair of same color to decide if colors have something to do related to inconsistency between units).
Left vs Right.

there are some differences between units, but also between channels. they are located in bass (from 20Hz to 200Hz, 3-5dB @ 20Hz difference between channels, 4-5dB @ 20Hz difference between units), and [upper]mids (from 1kHz to 5KHz, ~1dB difference between channels, ~3dB between units).

bass & sub-bass boost, but mids climb soon (before 2KHz, i guess that's why they look a bit more mid forwarded than other kzs). upper mids and highs keep constant, in the bright side, but not overloaded (moderated peaks at 2, 3, 5, 8.5, and 11 kHz).


 

ES3b: blue, ES3p: purple. CSt: stock cable. TLk: special tips.

EDIT:
1- higher sub-bass of right channel in purples was due to improper dynamic driver vent hole; too much glue in the hole, it was closed.
2- higher levels at 2-3kHz in purples were due to lack of foam (missing or wrong placed) in the nozzle, around the BA.
Thanks to @vector84 !!


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

Foam tips vs thick silicone special tips.

KZ ES3, blue, channels averaged.

note what foam tips do in highs after 8kHz. that's why i usually prefer to find silicone tips which provide good isolation.. unless for comfort, isolation, or highs taming purposes, of course.

got some ostry 100, 200 and 300 tips around. if they keep inside the coupler, i'll measure them with zs5 and zs6.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

Cables.

ES3 purple, right channel.

cables used:
- CSt: stock ES3 cable (with mic). DC resistance: 0.84Ω
- CSpGb: classical upgraded silver plated copper cable for zst, gearbest version (foggy white plastic, white rings on jack). DC resistance: 0.62Ω
- CSpA: similar to CSpGb, but purchased in aliexpress time ago (transparent plastic over the foggy white, black rings on jack). DC resistance: 0.40Ω!
- CSp8: new upgraded silver plated copper for zst, more cores (6), metallic straight jacks. DC resistance: 0.45Ω.

the frequency response graph shows no tonal differences. power difference up to 1dB.
didn't get conclusions about distortion (transparency, resolution). maybe there are missing parameters which can affect to that, but i don't know them, if any.
noticed some thinner sound when using silver or silver plated compared to copper in the past, but it could be just self-suggestion, who knows.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

@hakuzen zs6 and zs5 measurement with different tips and cable plessss


----------



## Viber

Wiljen said:


> If you don't already love Joe Bonamassa - you should get acquainted.



THANK YOU!
I can't believe i found another Joe Satriani haha.


----------



## Viber

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm struggling like crazy with that one. I'm almost at the point of saying the default cable with the foams provides a better balance but gah it's killing me bouncing around between 3 different sources, 4 different tip styles, and 2 different cables.
> 
> The couple of times I did a few swaps, I feel like the default cable's treble was still more strident and harsher than the upgraded, but I'm currently sitting here with foams and the stock cable and partially thinking that the amount of "treble muting" the foams do is better stock than upgraded cable.
> 
> I'll say this: just throw them foams on there and odds are damn good you'll be right as rain.



I like them with silicones as well.
So far i'm digging them with foams (i sliced about a millimeter of the foam from the tip's bottom to get better insertion).


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

ZS5 v1 grey.

calibrated raw frequency response, not compensated. stock cable (no mic), thick silicone tips, deep insertion.

 

cables tonal comparison:
- CSt: stock ZS5 cable (no mic). DC resistance: ~0.64Ω (channels),  0.38Ω (ground).
- CSp6: upgraded silver plated cable (6 cores, metallic straight jack). 0.45Ω

and tips tonal comparison: foam (TF) vs thick-silicone tips (TLk); deep insertion both.


----------



## vector84

None of those cables would be over 10% voltage drop, I don't think?

That ES3 stock cable you have would be a good candidate for testing on the ZS5/6 though maybe?  That's how bad some of them get.


----------



## Gianluigib (Oct 6, 2017)

Skullophile said:


> Just pop them open at the seams with a small screwdriver or spudger. Myself and some other members have popped them open, we can share our findings if you want.


Thanks,  i tried,  and i saw a green unsoldered cable.


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> first measurements. ES3.
> 
> used a chi-pro rig (iec711 coupler, precision 1/2" mic + preamp, stand), creative emu-0404 adc, dac (+jds labs c5d amplifier). 94dBSPL (+-some error) @ 1kHz.
> calibrated raw measurements (not compensated).
> ...


This is a neat little piece.

From my destructive tampering on the ES3, this unit related deviance looks rather like it might relate to some tuning points:

bass vent coverage (excess glue was responsible on mine)
foam seating depth in the nozzle
Adjusting those points, I was able to get my ES3 to match across 20-5,000 Hz or so pretty tightly.


----------



## TimeSnow

I gotta say, after five mins with the ZS5s that just came through my door (!) I'm pretty impressed. For the price. There's a TOUCH of sibilance in already bright recordings, but that took 2 seconds to fix with an EQ. The sub bass is far closer to neutral than any of the other KZs I have, except maybe the ZS3... But that's from memory... I can compare them side by side later.

The main thing I was amazed by though was how light and comfy they are... I got a good fit out of the box. Better than the ZST/ZS3/ED12.

anyway... they're burning in now... not expecting much change, but you never know.

And I don't know if I got a v1 or not... probably not... oh well.


----------



## BubbleWrap86

Would someone be able to provide me with the diameter of the ZS6 nozzle? I have a pair on the way, with upgraded cable, and want to make sure I have some good tips to try out with them.


----------



## hakuzen

vector84 said:


> This is a neat little piece.
> 
> From my destructive tampering on the ES3, this unit related deviance looks rather like it might relate to some tuning points:
> 
> ...


true! now i remember your tips about ES3.. i'm going to check those bass vents right after measuring zs6, and shall measure them again. thanks!! =))


----------



## BurningSkies

Only had a few minutes with these last night, but I'm already pretty impressed. Definitely a step up from the ZSTs I've been using...


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 6, 2017)

BubbleWrap86 said:


> Would someone be able to provide me with the diameter of the ZS6 nozzle? I have a pair on the way, with upgraded cable, and want to make sure I have some good tips to try out with them.



best I can measure 5.4mm (corrected - measured wrong)


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

ZS6 (green).

calibrated raw frequency response, not compensated. stock cable (no mic), thick silicone tips, deep insertion (these tips suffer a bit of highs roll-off after 12kHz).

 

comparison with ZS5 v1 (gray).
same conditions, averaged channels.

 

it shows the same big peak at 9kHz and 11kHz than appeared in Chris' graph. most differences between the graphs are due to Chris' graph were compensated, while these are raw.
oh, man, that's 9dB higher than zs5 peak (at 11kHz).


----------



## Gianluigib

BurningSkies said:


> Only had a few minutes with these last night, but I'm already pretty impressed. Definitely a step up from the ZSTs I've been using...


They seem  a jewel


----------



## Wiljen

hakuzen said:


> ZS6 (green).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow does that validate what I found with the EQ settings.  I couldn't have hit it much closer if I tried.   8kHz at -6db and 10kHz at -8db is pretty much spot on.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 6, 2017)

ZS6 tips rolling

EDITED.
added some more tips, and had to re-post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1527#post-13766425


----------



## Superluc

Wiljen said:


> The Ostry tips do lower the volume slightly but I didn't find any loss in clarity.  Granted, my first tests have been focused around the treble tuning and I have not had a chance to do extensive listening with them yet.    That opinion will probably continue to evolve, but I found the warnings on both volume loss and sound quality decay to be over-stated.


Let us know if you test them more. At now, i want to wait and see how my pair perform, before order that kind of tips, but understand better how use them affect sound may be very helpful.


----------



## hakuzen

BubbleWrap86 said:


> Would someone be able to provide me with the diameter of the ZS6 nozzle? I have a pair on the way, with upgraded cable, and want to make sure I have some good tips to try out with them.


5.7mm


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 6, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> 5.7mm



This is correct, I went back and rechecked mine and it is 5.4 - not 4.4 as I had previously measured and admittedly trying to hold a ruler over the tip is probably not the best way to do it.  Next time I'll get out the dial micrometer.


----------



## BurningSkies

Gianluigib said:


> They seem  a jewel



I normally would have gone for the black ones, but the red ones were on Amazon Prime, so free two day shipping...it seemed like a good way to go since GearBest takes a while to ship (still waiting on my ZS5's!). But yeah, the overall feel/look is really nice.  My end impressions will be different than most because my end use is on stage or in studio rather than home or critical listening. So, a different kind of 'demanding'. Loud rooms with hundreds of people and with full amps and drumkit. There will be less 'eq' involved for me and more actual mixing which is something that the home listener doesn't have control over. So if the hat and cymbals are too loud, I just bring them down a couple DB on my personal aux mix.

These do sit 'proud' of your ears a bit, so they're a bit more noticeable than standard IEMS, but I don't think it's in a bad way. I also don't have any fit/comfort concerns with these. I dropped 'em in with the standard medium tips for about 20 minutes and they were fine. I'll switch over to large foam tips to perform tomorrow.


----------



## snip3r77

Does The zs6 have distorted bass? You can test with Kendrick Lamar


----------



## Wiljen

The Zs6 has much tighter and more articulate bass than the Zs5.  I have not found the distortion that was present in the 5s to be there in the 6.  That is one area they definitely got right on the Zs6.


----------



## HiFiChris

BurningSkies said:


> Only had a few minutes with these last night, but I'm already pretty impressed. Definitely a step up from the ZSTs I've been using...



While I'm usually all in for green shells (*unintelligible mumbling and grumbling* you, GearBest, for sending me the black instead of the green ones), I have to say... oh my goodness, those. Red. Shells. Look. So. Beautiful!


----------



## HiFiChris

hakuzen said:


> ZS6 (green).
> 
> calibrated raw frequency response, not compensated. stock cable (no mic), thick silicone tips, deep insertion (these tips suffer a bit of highs roll-off after 12kHz).
> 
> ...




Thanks for posting, buddy. Yup, unfortunately backs up my measurements (improved (less bright) midrange, much brighter treble - the difference in bass is, as I also noted for my measurements, that I block the inner vent as this is also the scenario that will happen in most ears (unblocked, the bass response is relatively similar to yours)).

Btw, if you have any SpinFit tips, would you mind to measure the ZS6 with SpinFit tips (single-flange) and post the graph compared to the stock tips? I'd be interested in seeing that.


----------



## Holypal

hakuzen said:


> ZS6 (green).
> 
> calibrated raw frequency response, not compensated. stock cable (no mic), thick silicone tips, deep insertion (these tips suffer a bit of highs roll-off after 12kHz).
> 
> ...




Well, at least the left and right channels are well matched. It is for treble lovers.


----------



## snip3r77

Does the cable fix the hot Treble ?


----------



## vector84

snip3r77 said:


> Does the cable fix the hot Treble ?


I wouldn't really expect reliably huge shifts in that regard - but some significant variability might exist in some situations or setups.

Tips are probably more effective than cables at taming the hot treble


----------



## BurningSkies

snip3r77 said:


> Does The zs6 have distorted bass? You can test with Kendrick Lamar



 I test with Reggae. I get no distorted bass even with good uncompressed modern recordings. 



HiFiChris said:


> While I'm usually all in for green shells (*unintelligible mumbling and grumbling* you, GearBest, for sending me the black instead of the green ones), I have to say... oh my goodness, those. Red. Shells. Look. So. Beautiful!



Yep. They really look nice. I'm wondering if they'll look as nice once they kick around in my gigbag for a while. I'll let everyone know how the anodizing holds up.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 6, 2017)

I would tend to think there's a decent chance a lot of the distortion on the ZS5s comes from the source.

Most gear isn't specced to handle 8 ohms or less (fun with no crossover!)

Impedance that low on stuff specced for 16+ (which is most personal audio gear) can cause thing setup in voltage limited mode to run in current limited mode instead... and depending on the performance of the specific hardware involved, that then can sometimes rather unexpectedly lead to either compression or distortion being introduced, or something like that?


ZS6 having a crossover probably means a lot less of that happening.


PS: An Ear Buddy solved all of my distortion issues, but I checked all my hardware to make sure the distortion was likely coming from an impedance matching problems - I found undefined performance <16 ohms (trending towards absurd distortion at the border of the undefined region) on every piece of gear I own that I had complaints about in regards to distortion with the ZS5.


----------



## Podster

Wiljen said:


> Finally got it done - Zs6 review is up.   https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews
> 
> HifiChris - I'd be interested in knowing if this matches your finding thus far.



I enjoyed your write up @Wiljen , for me I prefer enthusiast write ups compared to the more technically detailed ones as they are more relatable to me You said more than a mouthful as well on the "What you can get for $50 these days as far as mid to HiFi audio Shopped right one could have a pair of ZS6 with a Benjie S5 and have an excellent $50 rig!

I have to agree with @HiFiChris , that satin finish red one is to die for

Here's some serious bass reggae for you @BurningSkies


----------



## groucho69

Viber said:


> THANK YOU!
> I can't believe i found another Joe Satriani haha.



JB also has some great concert videos


----------



## Fox2twenty

@hakuzen cool graphs. Looks like Zs6 with foamies might be a go for me.

Still in 4 more graphs/impressions if you feel like it.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 6, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> the good news. foam tips tame highs from 8kHz to 12kHz actually, so they help with those excessive peaks. they fix about half the difference with zs5.
> i don't think that cables will achieve any peak cutting.
> 
> ZS6 tips (+ ZS5)
> ...


I am a noob here so it would be of great help if someone explained me something about frequency response measurements of iems. There is a large dip in frequency response of the zs6 between 4 and 7 khz. Isn't that a bad thing? Wouldn't the instrument between 4 and 7 khz sound more distant? Does this mean this isn't a reference tuning?


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

ZS6 tip rolling (revision)

the good news. foam tips tame highs from 8kHz to 12kHz actually, so they help exactly with zs6 excessive peaks. they fix about half the difference with zs5, so zs6 might become enough "comfortreble" without EQ'ing.

Ostry tips don't tame those peaks. they reduce other upper mids and highs, so the peak at 10kHz is even more noticeable in comparison. tried ostry 200, as it is, but also filled with foam.
SpinFits neither helps.
And convinced that cables won't help in this regard either (cable comparison in my next post).

the word is "FOAM" for zs6, although i've not tried an A/B listening (your task..), and i'm not fond of foams.


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> I am a noob here so it would be of great help if someone explained me something about frequency response measurements of iems. There is a large dip in frequency response of the zs6 between 4 and 7 khz. Isn't that a bad thing? Wouldn't the instrument between 4 and 7 khz sound more distant? Does this mean this isn't a reference tuning?


By most accounts the ZS6 tends towards a somewhat V shaped tuning? So definitely not reference.


As for the deep cut, that's right around the sibilance zone, but at 4kHz you're already past most instrument fundamentals, I believe?

Here's a neat chart that tries to describe what different frequencies do to various instruments 
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


----------



## snip3r77

Seems like the "foams" settles the zs6. 
Also there should be significant mid bass

Can you put 2 graphs together
1) ZS5v1 stock and with foam
2) ZS6 + Foam
3) ZS6 stock
If it's not too troublesome?


----------



## randomnin

Thanks, hakuzen! Great graphs, very useful. My conclusion is that ES3, ZS5 and ZS6 all have more uneven graphs than KZ ZST. The drop from 20Hz to 1kHz is bigger than ZST, the peak at 2kHz and the drop at 7 khz are still present. I guess I'm not buying any of these new KZs, doesn't seem worth it, given that comfort also hasn't increased. Pass.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

They might not be for everyone, but I really do think a set of foams puts the ZS6 right where it needs to be. I'm faaaaaar from a treble head.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeGuyDude said:


> They might not be for everyone, but I really do think a set of foams puts the ZS6 right where it needs to be. I'm faaaaaar from a treble head.


Good news.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> By most accounts the ZS6 tends towards a somewhat V shaped tuning? So definitely not reference.
> 
> 
> As for the deep cut, that's right around the sibilance zone, but at 4kHz you're already past most instrument fundamentals, I believe?
> ...


According to the link you gave, by 4khz you have passed all the fundamentals of almost all instruments but what about harmonics. You haven't crossed the harmonics. Why would one tune a earphone to not show some of the harmonics of instruments?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fahim Foysal said:


> According to the link you gave, by 4khz you have passed all the fundamentals of almost all instruments but what about harmonics. You haven't crossed the harmonics. Why would one tune a earphone to not show some of the harmonics of instruments?


You can check out other graphs, they all look squiggly like that.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Fox2twenty said:


> You can check out other graphs, they all look squiggly like that.


I did. Not all of them have such huge dips in higher frequencies. They do have small peaks or small dips but the zs5/ zs6 has a huge one


----------



## vector84 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> I did. Not all of them have such huge dips in higher frequencies. They do have small peaks or small dips but the zs5/ zs6 has a huge one


Compensation schemes and scale have a lot of effect there.  The salient point in a comparison graph is how they differ - which is the sort of useful information you can more universally draw from a FR plot since you don't need to carefully consider the measurement setup (which hakuzen described btw, uncompensated, and you can look up the FR variances on his coupler since it's an IEC standards compliant one).

The graphs being posted here as you can see have about a 50 dB spread on the Y axis - this lets you see what's going on in better detail.

As an extreme example, a lot of graphs manufacturers like to post have a 140+ dB spread so everything looks nice and smooth.


----------



## randomnin

No, but it is true that overwhelmingly most of Chi-Fi IEMs have quite bad response graphs. I mean, look at this wiggly stuff:
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/kz-zst.php
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/kinera-bd005.php (this one is actually one of the least messy graphs I've seen, along with Urbanfun hybrids which can be found on audiobudget.com, along with graphs for a lot of other IEMs. Though audiobudget's graphs are made with much worse equipment, probably no artificial ear canal that has the same acoustic parameters as human flesh)
 vs.
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/ultimate-ears-fi-5-pro.php
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/etymotic-er4-2x.php
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/shure-se-535.php

Of course, of course, the price difference is gargantuan, but nonetheless it's obvious that big names actually fine tune their stuff, while the Chinese just stick random drivers into random casings.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Compensation schemes and scale have a lot of effect there.  The salient point in a comparison graph is how they differ - which is the sort of useful information you can more universally draw from a FR plot since you don't need to carefully consider the measurement setup (which hakuzen described btw, uncompensated, and you can look up the FR variances on his coupler since it's an IEC standards compliant one).
> 
> The graphs being posted here as you can see have about a 50 dB spread on the Y axis - this lets you see what's going on in better detail.
> 
> As an extreme example, a lot of graphs manufacturers like to post have a 140+ dB spread so everything looks nice and smooth.


Great exposition


----------



## TJK81

Wiljen said:


> Finally got it done - Zs6 review is up.   https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews
> 
> HifiChris - I'd be interested in knowing if this matches your finding thus far.



Just curious to know... Is there peeled off coating those bright corners on the earphones... You made it_.. Or just came in this condition from plant.


----------



## BurningSkies

Podster said:


> I have to agree with @HiFiChris , that satin finish red one is to die for
> 
> Here's some serious bass reggae for you @BurningSkies




Ah, Midnite. Good stuff. Seen him a few times!

Here's what I do. Should be pretty good on your earholes for testing your ZS6's.

Full album here:


----------



## Wiljen

TJK81 said:


> Just curious to know... Is there peeled off coating those bright corners on the earphones... You made it_.. Or just came in this condition from plant.



that is the factory finish after about a weeks worth of use.  They have a few little scars from being tucked in a shirt pocket.


----------



## Viber

groucho69 said:


> JB also has some great concert videos



YES! he's like a machine.
Gotta love DVDs of great guitarists!


----------



## groucho69

BurningSkies said:


> Ah, Midnite. Good stuff. Seen him a few times!
> 
> Here's what I do. Should be pretty good on your earholes for testing your ZS6's.
> 
> Full album here:




Damn that's good.


----------



## TJK81

Wiljen said:


> that is the factory finish after about a weeks worth of use.  They have a few little scars from being tucked in a shirt pocket.



Seems some coating durability problem? Or very hard conditions you tested them.


----------



## vector84

randomnin said:


> No, but it is true that overwhelmingly most of Chi-Fi IEMs have quite bad response graphs. I mean, look at this wiggly stuff:
> http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/kz-zst.php
> http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/kinera-bd005.php (this one is actually one of the least messy graphs I've seen, along with Urbanfun hybrids which can be found on audiobudget.com, along with graphs for a lot of other IEMs. Though audiobudget's graphs are made with much worse equipment, probably no artificial ear canal that has the same acoustic parameters as human flesh)
> vs.
> ...


You're comparing graphs from different sources and different compensation schemes...

And you're comparing earphones with very different tuning orientations... 


No one is trying to say ZSTs are reference tuned (because they're not...)

You could just as easily pick through that data and find "squiggly" graphs for "big names" too... so what?  People aren't allowed to use anything but reference tuning?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

My favorite thing is plugging chi-fi crap into a Mojo. It just feels so unnecessary, but works so well.


----------



## maxxevv

Thought you would say Hugo though! ... lol ...


----------



## randomnin

vector84 said:


> You're comparing graphs from different sources and different compensation schemes...
> 
> And you're comparing earphones with very different tuning orientations...
> 
> ...


Firstly, all those graphs are from the same source with an identical compensation scheme. You missed the fact that I gave links from a single site.
Secondly, I'm talking about general variation of points on y axis in a graph - and here it is obvious that Chifi frequency responses are way more unrefined. I'm not delving into the fact that different people are deaf in their own ways and might need different tuning than the average person, to perceive the sound as flat.
Thirdly, no, big names usually have quite flat graphs even for older models.
And, no, people can listen to whatever they want. My point is that KZ is miles behind even a decade old big brand models in terms of having a decent looking frequency response graph.


----------



## Spelaeus

SomeGuyDude said:


> My favorite thing is plugging chi-fi **** into a Mojo. It just feels so unnecessary, but works so well.


Whatever works, works. I run just about everything through a HiFime Sabre 9018 usb DAC into a Cayin C5 amp. Plays well with everything from the KZ zs5 to my Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm. Doesn't do so great with my Koss ESP-6, but those need power by the watt out of speaker taps...


----------



## mrmoto050

Wiljen said:


> If you don't already love Joe Bonamassa - you should get acquainted.


Amen to that, I have everything that he has recorded and all of the live Blu Ray/DVD's. Also if you haven't already check Black Country Communion.


----------



## vector84

randomnin said:


> Firstly, all those graphs are from the same source with an identical compensation scheme. You missed the fact that I gave links from a single site.
> Secondly, I'm talking about general variation of points on y axis in a graph


But you go on to compare them to the graphs here and on audiobudget



randomnin said:


> and here it is obvious that Chifi frequency responses are way more unrefined. I'm not delving into the fact that different people are deaf in their own ways and might need different tuning than the average person, to perceive the sound as flat.
> Thirdly, no, big names usually have quite flat graphs even for older models.
> And, no, people can listen to whatever they want. My point is that KZ is miles behind even a decade old big brand models in terms of having a decent looking frequency response graph.


This all just strikes me as rather contradictory.  If I pulled up random Shure graphs that "aren't flat", then you'd tell me that's tuning.  But KZ ones not being flat is obviously just "random haphazard drivers thrown in a shell".  That seems to be about the gist of your point?


----------



## BurningSkies

randomnin said:


> Firstly, all those graphs are from the same source with an identical compensation scheme. You missed the fact that I gave links from a single site.
> Secondly, I'm talking about general variation of points on y axis in a graph - and here it is obvious that Chifi frequency responses are way more unrefined. I'm not delving into the fact that different people are deaf in their own ways and might need different tuning than the average person, to perceive the sound as flat.
> Thirdly, no, big names usually have quite flat graphs even for older models.
> And, no, people can listen to whatever they want. My point is that KZ is miles behind even a decade old big brand models in terms of having a decent looking frequency response graph.



The graphs certainly do suggest that their response north of about 2k is erratic, especially when comparing to professional grade full sized speakers (and possibly other IEM speakers)...but then I'm always leery of home testing environments and accuracy anyway. The next step would be to figure out if this is driver related, tuning related, or crossover related. 

Luckily my own personal hearing rolls off pretty severely by somewhere between 10/12k.


----------



## Superluc

randomnin said:


> Thirdly, no, big names usually have quite flat graphs even for older models.
> And, no, people can listen to whatever they want. My point is that KZ is miles behind even a decade old big brand models in terms of having a decent looking frequency response graph.


Why even say that ? We are talking about cheap multidrivers stuff, clearly not tuned for be used for monitoring.


----------



## BurningSkies

groucho69 said:


> Damn that's good.



Thank you. In the studio now doing a follow up.  The full album is free/streaming at that soundcloud account. Our producer has pretty precise hearing and is a bit of a gear tweak (vintage ribbon mics, tube compressors) and we used a lot of legit vintage gear ('48 Hammond/leslie, clav, rhodes, etc) , so it's actually pretty good listen on phones. It also isn't overly compressed or squashed in the FR.


----------



## youngarthur

I must be very unlucky, both my KD6 have failed, one a driver, the other cable fault, that is after around a month, with very, very little use. OH dear.


----------



## vector84

randomnin said:


> Firstly, all those graphs are from the same source with an identical compensation scheme. You missed the fact that I gave links from a single site.
> Secondly, I'm talking about general variation of points on y axis in a graph - and here it is obvious that Chifi frequency responses are way more unrefined. I'm not delving into the fact that different people are deaf in their own ways and might need different tuning than the average person, to perceive the sound as flat.
> Thirdly, no, big names usually have quite flat graphs even for older models.
> And, no, people can listen to whatever they want. My point is that KZ is miles behind even a decade old big brand models in terms of having a decent looking frequency response graph.


And the reason this bothers me is because it is a spear in completely the wrong direction, all the things you're critiquing them on are related to how they don't match your preferred tuning, or what you consider to be "acceptable measurements" (again, your preferred tuning).

If you want to complain about KZ tuning, let's talk about the ES3's tuning issues - the accuracy of hitting the tuning they were going for is pretty obviously at least somewhat sub-par as seen in those measurements.  And I've tried, it's not all that hard to match them using the same tuning mechanics that KZ's factory failed to use effectively (excess glue) or that was ruined during shipping (maybe foam displaced?).  That seems like a much more relevant issue with KZ falling short in some regards to tuning their drivers effectively.

But in that regards they fall squarely within the expectations of their price bracket.


----------



## BurningSkies

vector84 said:


> But you go on to compare them to the graphs here and on audiobudget
> 
> 
> This all just strikes me as rather contradictory.  If I pulled up random Shure graphs that "aren't flat", then you'd tell me that's tuning.  But KZ ones not being flat is obviously just "random haphazard drivers thrown in a shell".  That seems to be about the gist of your point?



I was just comparing to the Shure IEMs, since they're sort of standard for stage monitoring. Definitely not close to ruler flat above 2k. Doesn't have the attenuation in the 4k range though...but that could be there because so many complained about the 5's sibilance...

Luckily none of us listen with charts and graphs but with our ears!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

youngarthur said:


> KD6


Pretty sure this isnt a model


----------



## SomeGuyDude

randomnin said:


> Thirdly, no, big names usually have quite flat graphs even for older models.
> And, no, people can listen to whatever they want. My point is that KZ is miles behind even a decade old big brand models in terms of having a decent looking frequency response graph.



And those older models sound like crap sandwiches next to newer stuff. Flat does not inherently mean it's going to be worth a ****.


----------



## Superluc

SomeTechNoob said:


> Pretty sure this isnt a model



Maybe it was talking about this QKZ rebrand of the YINJW P8


----------



## TimeSnow

Had a mixed time with the ZS5s. Some things sound brilliant. Other things are fatiguing. Some EQing is helpful, other not so much.

But.

The stuff they DO sound good with, sounds really good. Best KZ I've heard good.

But other stuff, is basically unlistenable.

So... Kinda a mixed bag.

Worth keeping because of the comfort, and because they can sound great. It just depends.

Now I need to decide if a 6 is in my future.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TimeSnow said:


> Had a mixed time with the ZS5s. Some things sound brilliant. Other things are fatiguing. Some EQing is helpful, other not so much.
> 
> But.
> 
> ...



v1 or v2? Shine a flashlight at the nozzle, how many BAs do you see?


----------



## 1clearhead

vector84 said:


> I would tend to think there's a decent chance a lot of the distortion on the ZS5s comes from the source.
> 
> Most gear isn't specced to handle 8 ohms or less (fun with no crossover!)
> 
> ...


This might be what I'm experiencing as well with my ZS5. I also think it situates directly with the ohms of the earphones not matching up with some of my units.


----------



## TimeSnow

SomeGuyDude said:


> v1 or v2? Shine a flashlight at the nozzle, how many BAs do you see?



I'll check. I assume it's a v2. Just got it this morning. 

It can be a bit bright. But on other stuff it sounds great. 

Old rock in particular sounds kinda painfully bright.


----------



## groucho69

BurningSkies said:


> Thank you. In the studio now doing a follow up.  The full album is free/streaming at that soundcloud account. Our producer has pretty precise hearing and is a bit of a gear tweak (vintage ribbon mics, tube compressors) and we used a lot of legit vintage gear ('48 Hammond/leslie, clav, rhodes, etc) , so it's actually pretty good listen on phones. It also isn't overly compressed or squashed in the FR.



It shows. And I have listened to it all. Great stuff.


----------



## Vidal

SomeGuyDude said:


> And those older models sound like **** sandwiches next to newer stuff. Flat does not inherently mean it's going to be worth a ****.



I agree with this! I've listened to some of the flatter graph IEMs (ER-4, SE-535 etc.) and it seems I prefer the squiggly wiggly ones more.

I don't care what a graph shows if I'm honest, the acid test is what I hear when I listen to them, the ZS5 and ZS6 could have graphs like the Himalayas and I'd still be happy.


----------



## TJK81

TimeSnow said:


> I'll check. I assume it's a v2. Just got it this morning.
> 
> It can be a bit bright. But on other stuff it sounds great.
> 
> Old rock in particular sounds kinda painfully bright.



Try foam tips (i'm using ball type). It really help with fatiguing in treble focused music (in my case Rumours by Fleetwood Mac (SHM-CD) or Regatta Blanc by The Police). That Rumours with silicone Spiral dots was unlistenable. With foams much much better.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

+1 for the foams.

I listen to a lot of metal and hip-hop, and believe me those genres are lightning rods for unpleasant treble. Foamed up the 6 (and I assume the ZS5) sound much better.


----------



## TimeSnow

TJK81 said:


> Try foam tips (i'm using ball type). It really help with fatiguing in treble focused music (in my case Rumours by Fleetwood Mac (SHM-CD) or Regatta Blanc by The Police). That Rumours with silicone Spiral dots was unlistenable. With foams much much better.



Can I ask which tips and what size?

I'm new at buying tips and they come in a variety of sizes (nozzle sizes, not fit) and they're expensive for something I'll just bin if they don't fit.

Thanks for the advice!!


----------



## Daemon11

Hmm, actually has anyone verified that Aptx even works on the bluetooth cable? I have a Pixel with Android 8.0 (oreo) and I've selected Aptx in the developer options yet when connected and streaming music it shows as "Streaming: SBC" and selecting aptx or any other option does not change it.


----------



## BurningSkies

TimeSnow said:


> Can I ask which tips and what size?
> 
> I'm new at buying tips and they come in a variety of sizes (nozzle sizes, not fit) and they're expensive for something I'll just bin if they don't fit.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!!



The sort of common standard for them is Comply...they have a search engine on their page so you can check the size:
http://www.complyfoam.com/


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TimeSnow said:


> Can I ask which tips and what size?
> 
> I'm new at buying tips and they come in a variety of sizes (nozzle sizes, not fit) and they're expensive for something I'll just bin if they don't fit.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!!



Look for the equivalent of the "T500" size. 5-6mm area is what you want. Comply and other brands all give 'em. I have a set of these on the way.


----------



## vector84

TimeSnow said:


> Can I ask which tips and what size?
> 
> I'm new at buying tips and they come in a variety of sizes (nozzle sizes, not fit) and they're expensive for something I'll just bin if they don't fit.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!!


Comply recommends T500s.

A lot of the ali sellers don't distinguish between T400/T500 sizes, using them interchangeably for a 4.9/5mm sized nozzle


----------



## TimeSnow

BurningSkies said:


> The sort of common standard for them is Comply...they have a search engine on their page so you can check the size:
> http://www.complyfoam.com/





SomeGuyDude said:


> Look for the equivalent of the "T500" size. 5-6mm area is what you want. Comply and other brands all give 'em. I have a set of these on the way.





vector84 said:


> Comply recommends T500s.
> 
> A lot of the ali sellers don't distinguish between T400/T500 sizes, using them interchangeably for a 4.9/5mm sized nozzle



Thanks everyone!! I'll order some today.... I would assume the variations are simply preference?


----------



## vector84

TimeSnow said:


> Thanks everyone!! I'll order some today.... I would assume the variations are simply preference?


Sort of?

Most Complies I've tried are at least somewhat slower rebounding foam, which lend themselves to a much deeper insertion and a much better seal, but I find them to be pretty uncomfortable long term for the same reasons.

I can't get anywhere near that sort of seal with fast rebounding material like that found on cheap foam tips, but boy are they comfortable.


----------



## BurningSkies

TimeSnow said:


> Thanks everyone!! I'll order some today.... I would assume the variations are simply preference?



They go into details on their page, but the shapes relate to comfort and/or they have the anti-sweat ones, which may be coated I'm guessing?  

I would go for the ones that have the most isolating effect.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> Compensation schemes and scale have a lot of effect there.  The salient point in a comparison graph is how they differ - which is the sort of useful information you can more universally draw from a FR plot since you don't need to carefully consider the measurement setup (which hakuzen described btw, uncompensated, and you can look up the FR variances on his coupler since it's an IEC standards compliant one).
> 
> The graphs being posted here as you can see have about a 50 dB spread on the Y axis - this lets you see what's going on in better detail.
> 
> As an extreme example, a lot of graphs manufacturers like to post have a 140+ dB spread so everything looks nice and smooth.


I understood the large y axis scale makes the manufacturer fr seem very smooth. How do i make another graph for the zs6 compensating for the lack of a ear canal?


----------



## vector84

BurningSkies said:


> They go into details on their page, but the shapes relate to comfort and/or they have the anti-sweat ones, which may be coated I'm guessing?
> 
> I would go for the ones that have the most isolating effect.


Those anti-sweat ones have a fabric waxguard across the front that they claim is acoustically transparent, but I believe the common perception is they attenuate highs to some degree.

Come to think of it, that seems like it might be useful information regarding the ZS6


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> Compensation schemes and scale have a lot of effect there.  The salient point in a comparison graph is how they differ - which is the sort of useful information you can more universally draw from a FR plot since you don't need to carefully consider the measurement setup (which hakuzen described btw, uncompensated, and you can look up the FR variances on his coupler since it's an IEC standards compliant one).
> 
> The graphs being posted here as you can see have about a 50 dB spread on the Y axis - this lets you see what's going on in better detail.
> 
> As an extreme example, a lot of graphs manufacturers like to post have a 140+ dB spread so everything looks nice and smooth.


One more thing. What is salient point?


----------



## vector84 (Oct 6, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> I understood the large y axis scale makes the manufacturer fr seem very smooth. How do i make another graph for the zs6 compensating for the lack of a ear canal?


That's a difficult question to answer accurately.

An IEC compliant coupler and calibrated microphone is the standards compliant stand-in for an ear canal - so as a direct answer they already are.  So in basic terms the standards would be to then compensate with an equal loudness contour.

But I think you mean compared to what you hear from a set of speakers where standards have been defined much longer and against which other things are measured.  And that's harder to say because by their very nature speakers interacting with your ear is an intensely directional interaction whereas you are always at the phantom center when listening to an IEM and additionally only a very small portion of your personal HRTF is actually being applied (as opposed to all of it for speakers and more of it for headphones).

And because at least as far as research I've seen, speakers and headphones are both well studied in this regards, whereas IEMs had long been assumed to not need study due to bypassing your HRTF.  There's currently ongoing research into that issue and from what I've read, the problem with those older ideas is the bypass itself is a weird mechanism - even if pressure levels are identical (which should relate to volume), you compare it to what you've heard before, which makes ignoring those aspects an insufficient answer.



Fahim Foysal said:


> One more thing. What is salient point?


salient = important / noticeable (in this case also useful)


----------



## TimeSnow (Oct 6, 2017)

BurningSkies said:


> They go into details on their page, but the shapes relate to comfort and/or they have the anti-sweat ones, which may be coated I'm guessing?
> 
> I would go for the ones that have the most isolating effect.



I ordered a mix of sizes of the isolation plus 500s. 

Thanks for the great help!


----------



## TimeSnow

vector84 said:


> Sort of?
> 
> Most Complies I've tried are at least somewhat slower rebounding foam, which lend themselves to a much deeper insertion and a much better seal, but I find them to be pretty uncomfortable long term for the same reasons.
> 
> I can't get anywhere near that sort of seal with fast rebounding material like that found on cheap foam tips, but boy are they comfortable.



Thanks for that perspective!!


----------



## youngarthur

SomeTechNoob said:


> Pretty sure this isnt a model


 Sorry, QKZ KD6. I should have been more specific. More investigation, its the cable, on the right side,ive repaired both, and its fine now. Phew!.


----------



## TimeSnow

Oh hey, do I need to remove the metal mesh to see the BAs in the nozzle of the ZS5s? I tried just shining a light, but couldn't really see anything.


----------



## TJK81

TimeSnow said:


> Can I ask which tips and what size?
> 
> I'm new at buying tips and they come in a variety of sizes (nozzle sizes, not fit) and they're expensive for something I'll just bin if they don't fit.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!!



I've got this with my ZS5's v2
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...32777242868.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.M8JkRX


----------



## zozito

What comply or alike do you think will fit better for zst and es3, T300?


----------



## BurningSkies

zozito said:


> What comply or alike do you think will fit better for zst and es3, T300?



The ZST they suggest the T500. They don't list ES3.


----------



## TimeSnow

TJK81 said:


> I've got this with my ZS5's v2
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4Pa...32777242868.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.M8JkRX



I love the look of those, but the packs were all sized (S/M/L) and as I've never used them I figured I should go for the pack with the range of sizes first.

After I figure out the best size I'll try those though. Comfort sounds good to me!


----------



## BurningSkies

vector84 said:


> Those anti-sweat ones have a fabric waxguard across the front that they claim is acoustically transparent, but I believe the common perception is they attenuate highs to some degree.
> 
> Come to think of it, that seems like it might be useful information regarding the ZS6



That makes sense. There's no way that any kind of anything across the front would be acoustically invisible in actuality. Sort of like the differences that dust cover material makes on speakers.


----------



## BurningSkies

Does anyone have a bead on what the actual MOST isolating tips are? I'm a guy who stands in front of a 3000w bass amplifier and a 6pc drum kit.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 6, 2017)

After being lost in Chinese customs for a while I finally received the OFC upgrade cable I ordered awhile back... not exactly what I expected, but I try to just be honest about what I hear.

Sweeps with upgrade cable on one side and stock on the other: start panned towards the upgrade side at LF, slowly sliding center drifts towards the stock side by around 10kHz, shifts strongly and sharply back to the upgrade side at around 18kHz.


Try it they said, you won't hear anything they said.


----------



## Podster

BurningSkies said:


> Ah, Midnite. Good stuff. Seen him a few times!
> 
> Here's what I do. Should be pretty good on your earholes for testing your ZS6's.
> 
> Full album here:




Pretty good and does sound really sweet on these ZS6's,  more recent Reggae and I have a lot of that as well but I'm a little more oldskool in my Reggae taste but "It's All Goode" Irie






This is one of my all time faves


----------



## BurningSkies

Podster said:


> Pretty good and does sound really sweet on these ZS6's,  more recent Reggae and I have a lot of that as well but I'm a little more oldskool in my Reggae taste but "It's All Goode" Irie
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of my all time faves




I started out yesterday with a King Tubby Revolutionaries Dub collection, but it wanted something that had a little more fidelity going for it to really hear what was up. A bit of JBB and our own album did the trick. 

I love old Studio 1 era stuff...But I generally love it all in different ways, sort of like having kids.


----------



## rendyG

I finally had time to open my ES3, have you noticed this piece of tuning foam on the side of the BA? Was it there on zst?
Just to clarify, that foam on the table is from the right earpiece and on the photo is actually the left earpiece with that foam still in.


----------



## vector84

Radek Jandl said:


> I finally had time to open my ES3, have you noticed this piece of tuning foam on the side of the BA? Was it there on zst?
> Just to clarify, that foam on the table is from the right earpiece and on the photo is actually the left earpiece with that foam still in.


That's the tuning foam I've commented on a few times - it's like they took the Viber mod and turned it into its own IEM 

The seating depth of it effects tuning quite a bit in the 3-5kHz range roughly.


----------



## rendyG

vector84 said:


> That's the tuning foam I've commented on a few times - it's like they took the Viber mod and turned it into its own IEM
> 
> The seating depth of it effects tuning quite a bit in the 3-5kHz range roughly.



Yeah, i saw that, so that means the foam wasn´t in ZST?


----------



## vector84

Radek Jandl said:


> Yeah, i saw that, so that means the foam wasn´t in ZST?


I don't own a ZST to confirm absolutely, but I believe you are correct.


----------



## Wiljen

Green Zs6 arrived today - same sound signature as the black one from Gearbest.  So appears to be the same lot and sound signature from both Amazon and Gearbest.


----------



## Daemon11

I bought the JVC Spiral Dot tips for my KZ ZS5 and they are WAY more comfortable now, and the seal is much better as well, best tips I've ever tried. Also, I tried spin fits but they didn't seal quite as well and really were not that comfortable as the Spiral Dots. Medium spiral dot worked for me when I was using Medium KZ tips.


----------



## Wiljen

Daemon11 said:


> I bought the JVC Spiral Dot tips for my KZ ZS5 and they are WAY more comfortable now, and the seal is much better as well, best tips I've ever tried. Also, I tried spin fits but they didn't seal quite as well and really were not that comfortable as the Spiral Dots. Medium spiral dot worked for me when I was using Medium KZ tips.



Wow, just goes to show how different our ears can be.  I tried the spiral dots and while both comfortable and a good fit, they made an already bright headphone even more so and I ruled them out quickly for use on the Zs5 and 6.  I found the Comply foam 400 Series isolation tips the best for me.


----------



## zozito

BurningSkies said:


> The ZST they suggest the T500. They don't list ES3.


Thanks, mate.


----------



## sghound

Daemon11 said:


> I bought the JVC Spiral Dot tips for my KZ ZS5 and they are WAY more comfortable now, and the seal is much better as well, best tips I've ever tried. Also, I tried spin fits but they didn't seal quite as well and really were not that comfortable as the Spiral Dots. Medium spiral dot worked for me when I was using Medium KZ tips.



yep same here spiral dots best for these.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

ZS6 cables.

1- stock cable, no mic. DC resistance: 0.70Ω(left), 0.60Ω(right), 0.39Ω(ground, both).
2- silver plated copper cable for ZST, with metallic straight jack. DC resistance: 0.45Ω. sub-bass venting hole was closed with tape for this second measurement (thanks, @HiFiChris !)

 

the only noticeable difference is the extra sub-bass (~+1.7dB @ 20Hz) when covering the vent hole.


----------



## vector84

So I'm only a few songs in on the OFC cable (for my ZS5 v1) but that spike in energy at 18-20 kHz region (where my hearing is obnoxiously sensitive) is almost excruciatingly fatiguing for me.

Mind you I didn't expect much other than a bit of a level shift perhaps, maybe the very slightest touch of coloration, as I tend pretty strongly towards the analytical side of cables shouldn't matter much unless you've done something well outside of accepted standards.


Bear in mind however that my hearing bias is highly abnormal, so my experiences with regards to HF should probably be largely ignored or at least taken with a grain of salt.  My hearing has obviously degraded in the intervening 20+ years, but when I was tested in my youth, my pain threshold at 20kHz was around 90 dB SPL, so I kid you not when I say *obnoxiously *sensitive (and the bulk of my hearing response is rather average at best, so it stands out that much more in my perception).

I shall try to persist and let brain burn in do its magic, but it's rough going so far... color my expectations shattered.


----------



## kokakolia (Oct 6, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> +1 for the foams.
> 
> I listen to a lot of metal and hip-hop, and believe me those genres are lightning rods for unpleasant treble. Foamed up the 6 (and I assume the ZS5) sound much better.



Ha! It's probably not as extreme as early Animal Collective (Spirit They're gone, Spirit They've Vanished) or Deeroof. That will make any headphone/speaker sound sibilant, because it intentionally is. Sometimes, I wonder if I truly enjoy this type of music or if I am a masochist.


----------



## groucho69

Time for ska


----------



## Tweeters

Would it be possible/worth it to sand down the edges of the ZS5 to make it more comfortable?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

vector84 said:


> So I'm only a few songs in on the OFC cable (for my ZS5 v1) but that spike in energy at 18-20 kHz region (where my hearing is obnoxiously sensitive) is almost excruciatingly fatiguing for me.
> 
> Mind you I didn't expect much other than a bit of a level shift perhaps, maybe the very slightest touch of coloration, as I tend pretty strongly towards the analytical side of cables shouldn't matter much unless you've done something well outside of accepted standards.
> 
> ...



I think you meant 8-10 because 18-20 is nearly inaudible and these things are barely producing anything at that point.


----------



## vector84

SomeGuyDude said:


> I think you meant 8-10 because 18-20 is nearly inaudible and these things are barely producing anything at that point.


Nope, right at the border of the inaudible my hearing sensitivity sky rockets.  OFC cables vs stock sounds panned slightly to the stock side at 10 kHz to me, but I can't say for sure that's not just an artifact of the sound slowly panning and my brain overcompensating.  But it spikes wildly like a dagger in my ear over to the OFC side shortly before a 20-20k sweep ends.

Welcome to my world.  I used to be able to hear well above 20kHz but age has brought my cutoff into a much more normal range.


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> Nope, right at the border of the inaudible my hearing sensitivity sky rockets.  OFC cables vs stock sounds panned slightly to the stock side at 10 kHz to me, but I can't say for sure that's not just an artifact of the sound slowly panning and my brain overcompensating.  But it spikes wildly like a dagger in my ear over to the OFC side shortly before a 20-20k sweep ends.


Is really strange. Are you sure that is not some background hissing, coming from the source with which you have test them ?


----------



## vector84

Superluc said:


> Is really strange. Are you sure that is not some background hissing, coming from the source with which you have test them ?


It's very strange indeed, but nah it's not noise.  I'm well acquainted with my HF sensitivity.  I've been told by several ENTs that I'm *incredibly* lucky to have gotten away with only this form of hearing damage likely largely related to some pretty incredibly severe ear infections as a toddler.

Like I said, best not to read too much into to my perceptions of things near the border of the inaudible, but I can't help but describe them at times as they color my perceptions considerably


----------



## snip3r77

Using my zs5v1 over the weekend instead of my ciem . Pretty happy with it .

In before zs6 replaces with zs5v1 innard.

I’m sorry that I’m giving you guys poisonous ideas


----------



## jaydm99

Tweeters said:


> Would it be possible/worth it to sand down the edges of the ZS5 to make it more comfortable?


Like this one? It's not mine but I'm planning to do it too once I get my ZS5


----------



## Tanker0921

Tweeters said:


> Would it be possible/worth it to sand down the edges of the ZS5 to make it more comfortable?



Yeah, people in my local group already did that to reduce the sharp angles


----------



## jaydm99

Tanker0921 said:


> Yeah, people in my local group already did that to reduce the sharp angles


The picture I posted was from HEEP


----------



## Tanker0921

Jay Magaling said:


> The picture I posted was from HEEP



I only stalk that page for the trades. they are a firm beliver that cables change the sound quality a lot.


----------



## maxxevv

Jay Magaling said:


> Like this one? It's not mine but I'm planning to do it too once I get my ZS5



Just remember to seal the edges with the vents before starting any sanding. And also, the shells are pretty thin, would suggest being less ambitious about the amount of sanding to be attempted. 

And note too that shell wall thickness can change the sound dynamics of IEMs.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I feel like sanding the shells is a bad idea. Just for the potential of ****ing up the acoustics.


----------



## maxxevv

I would suggest building up the edges with either epoxy glue or modeler's putty and then sand the edges round instead.  At leas that way, if things don't work out well in terms of acoustics, it can be mostly reversed.


----------



## jaydm99

Will painting it with Plasti Dip or similar rubberized paint affect the sound as well?


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> That's a difficult question to answer accurately.
> 
> An IEC compliant coupler and calibrated microphone is the standards compliant stand-in for an ear canal - so as a direct answer they already are.  So in basic terms the standards would be to then compensate with an equal loudness contour.
> 
> ...


Why would you need research on speakers and headphones (on frequency response) which emit sound from outside the ear canal. As far as I understand a flat frequency response on a speaker/ headphone equals to a reference sound since the sound bounces through the ear canal just as it would if you were standing in a live performance. So the way I see it, iems need more research since a flat fr doesn't mean reference sound. When it comes to iems, the sound is directed at the eardrum bypassing the reflection and absorption of sound waves by the ear canal so a flat frequency response means the sound we would hear is inaccurate. 

The thing I am asking is the fr response of zs6 in this thread; is it the fr after correcting the raw fr for the lack of a ear canal or is it the raw fr directly out of the iems?
Secondly what is an ideal raw fr graph that would sound like a true reference recording.


----------



## mono-type

So ZS6 is now available locally at a few stores in my area, should I get the ZS6 (which seems cooler, IMO. Also, I like the color choices more than the ZS5) or should I settle for the cheaper ZS5?


----------



## Viber

mono-type said:


> So ZS6 is now available locally at a few stores in my area, should I get the ZS6 (which seems cooler, IMO. Also, I like the color choices more than the ZS5) or should I settle for the cheaper ZS5?



Get the ZS6.
My modded ZS5 v1 are close to the ZS6  so the ZS5 are also great value earphones, but vocals sound more human and high quality on the ZS6, highs are also less harsh on the ZS6.

You need a good source for both.


----------



## maxxevv

Jay Magaling said:


> Will painting it with Plasti Dip or similar rubberized paint affect the sound as well?



It might.  But nobody knows for sure until he/she has tried it. Which is why I suggested to not sand in case you do a irreversible modification and regret it.   
I haven't done it myself but that's on the horizon when I have some spare time over a weekend or something as there is more than 1 hotspot on the ears when I wear the ZS5 for extended periods  of over an hour.


----------



## Mdclol

Cheers to everyone for sharing their thoughts and frequency response graphs. I took a break from chasing the next IEM a few years ago so it's quite incredible to witness how this Chi-fi scene has taken off. Last I actively read the forums there was absolutely 0 mention of Asian earphones outside of Japanese HIFI brands. 4 freakin' drivers in a metal shell with removable cable and a decent unboxing experience for a mere $45 bucks!? HOLY CRAP! Talk about diminishing returns..

On topic: I'm currently torn between the Pioneer CH9T (9.7mm DD) or this new KZ ZS6 -- anyone have thoughts on these? Or should I just stick to my Westone UM3X / Earsonics SM3 and save my money? I find vocals to be slightly veiled on my IEMs, as well as lacking the characteristic lower-end grunt or ''oomph" and musicality of dynamic driven 'phones.

MC


----------



## rendyG (Oct 7, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> The thing I am asking is the fr response of zs6 in this thread; is it the fr after correcting the raw fr for the lack of a ear canal or is it the raw fr directly out of the iems?
> Secondly what is an ideal raw fr graph that would sound like a true reference recording.



This should help  Harman target response with that 4dB bass boost is pretty accurate for iems.
Also I think hakuzens graphs are uncompensated.


----------



## HerrWallen

@Viber I saw in your profile that you are rocking the Denon D2000, how would you compare (if possible) the amount of treble on them with the ZS6s?


----------



## Viber

HerrWallen said:


> @Viber I saw in your profile that you are rocking the Denon D2000, how would you compare (if possible) the amount of treble on them with the ZS6s?



D2000 has a bit more treble imo, many times i prefer listening to them with a -1.7db in the 8K-16K range.
They are kinda similar in sound because they both share a bassy yet bright sound (of course the D2000 sound is bigger and better  )


----------



## snip3r77

ZS6 pls help to try Kendrick Lamar's DNA. Can it handle the bass?


----------



## tworule

Daemon11 said:


> I bought the JVC Spiral Dot tips for my KZ ZS5 and they are WAY more comfortable now, and the seal is much better as well, best tips I've ever tried. Also, I tried spin fits but they didn't seal quite as well and really were not that comfortable as the Spiral Dots. Medium spiral dot worked for me when I was using Medium KZ tips.


Hi where did u get it? Amazon?


----------



## hakuzen

Considerations about ES3 measurements.
1- higher sub-bass of right channel in purples was due to improper dynamic driver vent hole; too much glue in the hole, it was closed.
2- higher levels at 2-3kHz in purples were due to lack of foam (missing or wrong placed) in the nozzle, around the BA.
Thanks to @vector84 !!

These (ES3) and ZST are very finicky about these details (vent hole and foam in the nozzle), like @vector84 explained. Be very careful if you try to modify them.


----------



## HerrWallen

Viber said:


> D2000 has a bit more treble imo, many times i prefer listening to them with a -1.7db in the 8K-16K range.
> They are kinda similar in sound because they both share a bassy yet bright sound (of course the D2000 sound is bigger and better  )



That sound just wonderful! I have the Fostex TH-610 and absolutely love their treble-extension. 
Makes me feel a bit more confident when it comes to my ZS6-order


----------



## Viber

HerrWallen said:


> That sound just wonderful! I have the Fostex TH-610 and absolutely love their treble-extension.
> Makes me feel a bit more confident when it comes to my ZS6-order



Yea, it seems like different ear canals result in different impressions, but i like my ZS6 as they are very versatile and fun.


----------



## JimJames

How do the kz zs5/6 compare to the vsd2/3s?


----------



## BurningSkies

groucho69 said:


> Time for ska




Great album, we did a series of shows with them during this era...

Here's a really nice board recording from one of them in 1996:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxt7VkYTmCJYYk8zU2dBRG9lZUE


----------



## randomnin (Oct 7, 2017)

Mdclol said:


> Cheers to everyone for sharing their thoughts and frequency response graphs. I took a break from chasing the next IEM a few years ago so it's quite incredible to witness how this Chi-fi scene has taken off. Last I actively read the forums there was absolutely 0 mention of Asian earphones outside of Japanese HIFI brands. 4 freakin' drivers in a metal shell with removable cable and a decent unboxing experience for a mere $45 bucks!? HOLY CRAP! Talk about diminishing returns..
> 
> On topic: I'm currently torn between the Pioneer CH9T (9.7mm DD) or this new KZ ZS6 -- anyone have thoughts on these? Or should I just stick to my Westone UM3X / Earsonics SM3 and save my money? I find vocals to be slightly veiled on my IEMs, as well as lacking the characteristic lower-end grunt or ''oomph" and musicality of dynamic driven 'phones.
> 
> MC


You have two 500$ IEMs and are asking whether you should save your money when it comes to Chifi? Well, you're not getting anything sounding closer to what was intended by the artists with IEMs other than what you have. You can go closer only with headphones and above that - full sized speakers (or buying a ticket). Chifi IEM sound signatures are way more unrefined and messy, (KZ ZST vs. Westone UM3X vs. Earsonics SM3v2. Other KZ models aren't less messy) not to mention QC problems. But you'll still probably enjoy the sound, human hearing is not that precise. Not to mention the satisfaction that new, interesting stuff brings.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 7, 2017)

randomnin said:


> You have two 500$ IEMs and are asking whether you should save your money when it comes to Chifi? Well, you're not getting anything sounding closer to what was intended by the artists with IEMs other than what you have. You can go closer only with headphones and above that - full sized speakers (or buying a ticket). Chifi IEM sound signatures are way more unrefined and messy, not to mention QC problems. But you'll still probably enjoy the sound, human hearing is not that precise. Not to mention the satisfaction that new, interesting stuff brings.


Isn't there like a budget chi-fi brand that has decent quality control and spends good amount of money in r&d and is somewhat cheap at the same time. For example, I know I will get a great phone when I buy a xiaomi mi6 for $360 instead of s8 at $750. Mi6 basically has the same performance and great quality control but samsung would win when it comes to features cause of more investment in r&d.


----------



## Wiljen

Fahim Foysal said:


> Isn't there like a budget chi-fi brand that has decent quality control and spends good amount of money in r&d and is somewhat cheap at the same time. For example, I know I will get a great phone when I buy a xiaomi mi6 for $360 instead of s8 at $750. Mi6 basically has the same performance and great quality control but samsung would win when it comes to features cause of more investment in r&d.



Xiaomi makes the One More triple and Quad which fit that description.  Take a look at One More - it is Xiaomi's high end branding.


----------



## randomnin

Fahim Foysal said:


> Isn't there like a budget chi-fi brand that has decent quality control and spends good amount of money in r&d and is somewhat cheap at the same time. For example, I know I will get a great phone when I buy a xiaomi mi6 for $360 instead of s8 at $750. Mi6 basically has the same performance and great quality control but samsung would win when it comes to features cause of more investment in r&d.


Well, the QC thing is just higher risk of faulty items and variation between same model IEM, say 5% in China vs. .5% elsewhere. As to r&d - I don't think it's done at all at the cheap end of Chifi. And there isn't much to be done elsewhere either. The main thing about summit-fi IEMs for quite some time already are multiple drivers+multi-way crossovers. Not much new and not much further to go as to sound quality, but I don't think it's possible at the cheap Chifi niche. Not yet anyhow, and when it will, it'll be copying, not r&d.


----------



## groucho69

BurningSkies said:


> Great album, we did a series of shows with them during this era...
> 
> Here's a really nice board recording from one of them in 1996:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxt7VkYTmCJYYk8zU2dBRG9lZUE



Amazing. Thank you so much!


----------



## groucho69

Wiljen said:


> Xiaomi makes the One More triple and Quad which fit that description.  Take a look at One More - it is Xiaomi's high end branding.



OneMore might take exception to that characterization.


----------



## Superluc

Viber said:


> Get the ZS6.
> My modded ZS5 v1 are close to the ZS6  so the ZS5 are also great value earphones, but vocals sound more human and high quality on the ZS6, highs are also less harsh on the ZS6.
> 
> You need a good source for both.


We are getting a lot of opposed opinion on the higher response of the ZS6...


----------



## snip3r77 (Oct 7, 2017)

.


----------



## themindfreak

Idk if anyone has asked this yet, is the ZS6 smaller than the ZS5 in dimensions?


----------



## Viber

themindfreak said:


> Idk if anyone has asked this yet, is the ZS6 smaller than the ZS5 in dimensions?



They are very similar in size, here is a picture i took:


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 7, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> Xiaomi makes the One More triple and Quad which fit that description.  Take a look at One More - it is Xiaomi's high end branding.


Whaat. My life was a lie. I always thought one more was a separate company who made earphones for xiaomi.


randomnin said:


> Well, the QC thing is just higher risk of faulty items and variation between same model IEM, say 5% in China vs. .5% elsewhere. As to r&d - I don't think it's done at all at the cheap end of Chifi. And there isn't much to be done elsewhere either. The main thing about summit-fi IEMs for quite some time already are multiple drivers+multi-way crossovers. Not much new and not much further to go as to sound quality, but I don't think it's possible at the cheap Chifi niche. Not yet anyhow, and when it will, it'll be copying, not r&d.


I don't mind the absence of r&d for iems under $25 but when you go above this price companies should definitely invest in r&d. Some of you might say that $25 is way to cheap and it wouldn't be feasible to spend on r&d at such low prices, you have to understand it is china that we are talking about. The labour and material costs are wayyy lower compared to lets say usa. I agree the material cost of good balanced armatures are pretty high but instead of just focusing on ba drivers, a chi-fi company could easily do some r&d and a make great dynamic driver that could compete with iems thrice its price. Dynamic drivers are way cheaper to manufacture. For example if you spend $15 per iem on r&d and 15$ on material and packaging cost. You could easily provide a great iem at $60.


----------



## dbaker1981

Well my green zs6 will be in th mailbox when I get home.


----------



## HungryPanda

1More was a sub division of Xiaomi and now have split and are on their own now


----------



## Fahim Foysal

dbaker1981 said:


> Well my green zs6 will be in th mailbox when I get home.


And when is are you getting home? Would love to hear whether they feel like treble canons to you


----------



## kokakolia

Fahim Foysal said:


> Isn't there like a budget chi-fi brand that has decent quality control and spends good amount of money in r&d and is somewhat cheap at the same time. For example, I know I will get a great phone when I buy a xiaomi mi6 for $360 instead of s8 at $750. Mi6 basically has the same performance and great quality control but samsung would win when it comes to features cause of more investment in r&d.



I have a (Lenovo) Zuk Z2, and yeah it's a great phone on paper but the software is lacking. There are a lot of small glitches everywhere. Overall, the phone is not as good as the specs would suggest. But it's still amazing for the price. 

I don't know about Xiaomi. Maybe they're better than Lenovo. My next phone might be Xiaomi. The Redmi 4x is super cheap and still a good phone, provided you don't need big specs (which only matter for gaming apps, so I don't see the point).


----------



## Fahim Foysal

kokakolia said:


> I have a (Lenovo) Zuk Z2, and yeah it's a great phone on paper but the software is lacking. There are a lot of small glitches everywhere. Overall, the phone is not as good as the specs would suggest. But it's still amazing for the price.
> 
> I don't know about Xiaomi. Maybe they're better than Lenovo. My next phone might be Xiaomi. The Redmi 4x is super cheap and still a good phone, provided you don't need big specs (which only matter for gaming apps, so I don't see the point).


I dont know much about lenovo phones but xiaomi has actually refined their software well. In the super cheap category xiaomi redmi note 5 is amazing. Oneplus is another great example of a well put together chinese phone.


----------



## kokakolia

Fahim Foysal said:


> I dont know much about lenovo phones but xiaomi has actually refined their software well. In the super cheap category xiaomi redmi note 5 is amazing. Oneplus is another great example of a well put together chinese phone.



Yeah, I am gonna go on a tangent here and say that all these "flagships" are overspecced for people like me who just text/call, watch YouTube and surf the web. Something like a Redmi 5 makes more sense. I actually rocked an $80 smartphone for 1 year. It was OK for the most part, but it sucked for image heavy sites and was pretty sluggish at times. You don't need a leaf blower to dry your hair LOL.


----------



## HungryPanda

OnePlus are great phones the Xiaomi ones I cannot use as they don't have the international 4G ability


----------



## dbaker1981

Fahim Foysal said:


> And when is are you getting home? Would love to hear whether they feel like treble canons to you




Well I just opened them up and plugged them into my Opus 1 and I’m not at all getting the treble cannon. I have the zs5 v1 and they sound quite similar to me. The zs6 seems to have tighter bass and seems to be a little clearer. The real test will be when I hook them to my Cayin n3. The 4490 dac is  Notorious for being V shaped. At least to me.


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> I don't mind the absence of r&d for iems under $25 but when you go above this price companies should definitely invest in r&d. Some of you might say that $25 is way to cheap and it wouldn't be feasible to spend on r&d at such low prices, you have to understand it is china that we are talking about. The labour and material costs are wayyy lower compared to lets say usa. I agree the material cost of good balanced armatures are pretty high but instead of just focusing on ba drivers, a chi-fi company could easily do some r&d and a make great dynamic driver that could compete with iems thrice its price. Dynamic drivers are way cheaper to manufacture. For example if you spend $15 per iem on r&d and 15$ on material and packaging cost. You could easily provide a great iem at $60.


Economies of scale and consumer preference?

If you're only going to attract 1/10th of the number of potential sales because most consumers favor a more V shaped sound, you're going to have to spend 10 times as much per unit to get the same return on investment.


I considered putting a whole lengthy diatribe here, but really if you want something that sounds like your favorite studio monitor, you're going to need to shop around until you hear something that... sounds like your favorite studio monitor... because we hear with our ears.

Have we completely derailed this train yet?


----------



## Mdclol

randomnin said:


> You have two 500$ IEMs and are asking whether you should save your money when it comes to Chifi? Well, you're not getting anything sounding closer to what was intended by the artists with IEMs other than what you have. You can go closer only with headphones and above that - full sized speakers (or buying a ticket). Chifi IEM sound signatures are way more unrefined and messy, (KZ ZST vs. Westone UM3X vs. Earsonics SM3v2. Other KZ models aren't less messy) not to mention QC problems. But you'll still probably enjoy the sound, human hearing is not that precise. Not to mention the satisfaction that new, interesting stuff brings.



I understand your point, and thank you for your time. However, I highly doubt it was in the artists intention to have their vocals sounding veiled as is in the case of my $500 3-driver earphones. If anything, this make me absolutely sure I overpaid for what the Westones and Earsonics bring to the table. 

When I auditioned 1more triples, my thoughts were they sounded fantastic, very musical, especially for their $65 asking price at Costco but they didn't securely fit into my ears. Then I tried some CHEAP dynamic Philips earphones and they _really_ made me want to get groovy! Something that wouldn't happen with my borderline analytical Westone/Earsonics series 'phones. There was a level of richness, fullness and musicality brought forth by the dynamic driver that I found lacking in my BA earphones. I've also owned Westone 4R and Westone ES5 customs. Despite hearing these $500-1000 monsters, I still find myself gravitating to a cheap dynamic driver.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Mdclol Shame about the Earsonics, always was curious about the Velvet, but never really could justify the cost.  Your opinion of the costlier BA setups is why I've been apprehensive about trying that route, although the Rose Tech Mini6 could be something worth trying, and it's not horribly expensive.  For my expensive IEM I went with IE800 because of this.


----------



## randomnin

Mdclol said:


> I understand your point, and thank you for your time. However, I highly doubt it was in the artists intention to have their vocals sounding veiled as is in the case of my $500 3-driver earphones. If anything, this make me absolutely sure I overpaid for what the Westones and Earsonics bring to the table.
> 
> When I auditioned 1more triples, my thoughts were they sounded fantastic, very musical, especially for their $65 asking price at Costco but they didn't securely fit into my ears. Then I tried some CHEAP dynamic Philips earphones and they _really_ made me want to get groovy! Something that wouldn't happen with my borderline analytical Westone/Earsonics series 'phones. There was a level of richness, fullness and musicality brought forth by the dynamic driver that I found lacking in my BA earphones. I've also owned Westone 4R and Westone ES5 customs. Despite hearing these $500-1000 monsters, I still find myself gravitating to a cheap dynamic driver.


No problem then, pick up something that people here like or what respected reviewers (audiobudget.com, aproear.co.uk, ChrisHifi and some others) recommend and you'll probably be very happy with both the sound and specs, and your wallet won't be much lighter. But my beef is about that a) Chifi makers definitely pay very little attention to frequency response graphs; b) some members here have said that older Western makers' models sound worse than cutting edge KZ's, which doesn't fit my experience with used, twelve years old Shure E4c that sound no worse than any of the dozen chifi IEMs I've tried + they don't break as often as Chifi stuff does even when used only indoors and stationary.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 7, 2017)

@Fahim Foysal

I feel like that bit above comes of moderately harsh.  I'm obviously pretty interested in the mechanics of hearing myself, and I'm certainly not trying to dissuade you from exploring the subject but I feel like you're overthinking your experience a bit and you should take a bit more notice of what you hear, instead of what you think you should hear 

An enormous amount of information has been shared in this thread and it can be pretty daunting but like, you shared your experiences only very briefly with the ZS5 so it's really pretty hard to figure out what else you might be looking for.


You've got some ZS6s on the way right?  If you're dissatisfied with the ZS5s, why not take them to task with some simple changes?

You mentioned you feel they're particularly lacking in bass, so how does taping the vents treat your experience?
You mentioned some over expression of some frequencies - there's plenty of graphs floating around to give you a general idea of where peaks might lie. What has your experience been like toying with some EQ to bring them in line?
Have you tried some cheap foam tips? How do those treat your experience with the highs?
Tip rolling in general?
Source matching? What's your experiences with sources been like?
Cables? I still feel like this should go at the bottom of the list but? 

And then with a better handle on where you might want to make changes, if you feel like it, you can get more drastic or semi-permanent with, for example, things that Viber and Slater have gone into in depth relating to various damping setups.


Maybe you'll find a setup you like, maybe you'll just come away with more information to understand better what you want to hear, either way you come out ahead.

And not really related to this thread so much but I believe you mentioned the Xiaomi Pro HD... tape? tips? Why didn't you like them compared to the ZS5 or w/e else you can compare them to, etc.


----------



## Rilke

Hi guys, someone said here that zs6 needs a good source . I only own a Fiio x1 ( 2nd gen )  Is this considered to be a "good source" ? I can't afford any upgrade right now.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rilke said:


> Hi guys, someone said here that zs6 needs a good source . I only own a Fiio x1 ( 2nd gen )  Is this considered to be a "good source" ? I can't afford any upgrade right now.



I've tried it out of a Mojo, a cheap laptop, and an LG G6. I think you'll be a-okay.


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 7, 2017)

Rilke said:


> Hi guys, someone said here that zs6 needs a good source . I only own a Fiio x1 ( 2nd gen )  Is this considered to be a "good source" ? I can't afford any upgrade right now.



I think I said it and was referring more to poor source material than to the player itself.  Poorly recorded or mastered tracks are going to produce poor results.  Some headphones are more forgiving than others of these mistakes.  The Zs6 is not particularly forgiving of poor source material.


----------



## Skullophile

I'd suggest using a dremel, with all that bass I think they could take a bit of smoothing. Not exactly a critical listening iem. I couldn't hear a difference after snipping two sets of cables to two drivers on one side.


dbaker1981 said:


> Well I just opened them up and plugged them into my Opus 1 and I’m not at all getting the treble cannon. I have the zs5 v1 and they sound quite similar to me. The zs6 seems to have tighter bass and seems to be a little clearer. The real test will be when I hook them to my Cayin n3. The 4490 dac is  Notorious for being V shaped. At least to me.


Is the treble quality improved over the Zs5V1, i found the Zs5s treble to be not so true to life sounding.


----------



## Daemon11

tworule said:


> Hi where did u get it? Amazon?


Yup, here: https://www.amazon.com/VICTOR-JVC-EP-FX9M-B-Spiral-Earpiece/dp/B00JSLXNOC

Amazon prime available in case you don't like em.


----------



## dbaker1981

Skullophile said:


> I'd suggest using a dremel, with all that bass I think they could take a bit of smoothing. Not exactly a critical listening iem. I couldn't hear a difference after snipping two sets of cables to two drivers on one side.
> 
> Is the treble quality improved over the Zs5V1, i found the Zs5s treble to be not so true to life sounding.




I’d say it’s more detailed but not by much.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Skullophile said:


> I'd suggest using a dremel, with all that bass I think they could take a bit of smoothing. Not exactly a critical listening iem. I couldn't hear a difference after snipping two sets of cables to two drivers on one side.
> 
> Is the treble quality improved over the Zs5V1, i found the Zs5s treble to be not so true to life sounding.



Hard question to answer. There's certainly more treble, but how "true to life" things are could be up to you.


----------



## HungryPanda

Get your KZ bass on


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 7, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Yeah, I am gonna go on a tangent here and say that all these "flagships" are overspecced for people like me who just text/call, watch YouTube and surf the web. Something like a Redmi 5 makes more sense. I actually rocked an $80 smartphone for 1 year. It was OK for the most part, but it sucked for image heavy sites and was pretty sluggish at times. You don't need a leaf blower to dry your hair LOL.


Yeah there are plenty of good midrangers with great camera. Anything with a snapdragon 625 is enough power for most users. I personally prefer 'overspeced' phones with decent software.


dbaker1981 said:


> Well I just opened them up and plugged them into my Opus 1 and I’m not at all getting the treble cannon. I have the zs5 v1 and they sound quite similar to me. The zs6 seems to have tighter bass and seems to be a little clearer. The real test will be when I hook them to my Cayin n3. The 4490 dac is  Notorious for being V shaped. At least to me.


This whole thing seems quite confusing. I know we all hear things differently but boosted high frequencies should be annoying to all of us. I am confused whether the zs6 bering treble canon has something to do with personal preference or differences in production units. Any way that you can provide some measurements?


vector84 said:


> Economies of scale and consumer preference?
> 
> If you're only going to attract 1/10th of the number of potential sales because most consumers favor a more V shaped sound, you're going to have to spend 10 times as much per unit to get the same return on investment.
> 
> ...


I don't think the general population hate reference tuning. The were just shoved deep v shaped sound signatures by companies. I have got friends who did start complaining about the lack of mids in earphones even though they didn't listen to good earphones before. I would consider the apple earpods to be neutral with a brightish tint but people did like them, although I found them bass lacking and uncomfortable.


vector84 said:


> @Fahim Foysal
> 
> I feel like that bit above comes of moderately harsh.  I'm obviously pretty interested in the mechanics of hearing myself, and I'm certainly not trying to dissuade you from exploring the subject but I feel like you're overthinking your experience a bit and you should take a bit more notice of what you hear, instead of what you think you should hear
> 
> ...


My source is a xiaomi mi5 and my laptop. I have tried eqing using graphs but haven't had much luck. I think I need to make a graph out of my own unit and only then I would be able to fully understand what is going on. I think I might have issues with my unit. I got a friend nearby who will receive his zs5 sometime within the next 20 days and only then I will be able to fully understand whether it is an issue with my unit only. About trying foam; my foams are on the way along with the zs6. I purchased them from gb on the 1st of this month. They still haven't shipped them out ._.
Comparing the pro HD and zs5, they both are very detailed but as I mentioned, my zs5 tend to play some upper notes with greater emphasis. The pro HDs are a tad more bright overall. I would say both of these have fast and neutral bass but I don't hear the audible rumble that I crave with either of these. I prefer thump and rumble to my lower end without it drowning or overshadowing the other frequencies. The pro HDs have a slightly more pronounced v shape.


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> My source is a xiaomi mi5 and my laptop. I have tried eqing using graphs but haven't had much luck. I think I need to make a graph out of my own unit and only then I would be able to fully understand what is going on.


A worthwhile pursuit, as someone else pointed out a few pages back you might also want to try shooting for something more like a Harman curve and see how that treats you... Though I admit I found physical modifications to the ZS5 more satisfying than EQ personally 


Fahim Foysal said:


> I think I might have issues with my unit. I got a friend nearby who will receive his zs5 sometime within the next 20 days and only then I will be able to fully understand whether it is an issue with my unit only.


Can't deny some QC issues, so it's possible, though many of the problems are relatively fixable.


Fahim Foysal said:


> About trying foam; my foams are on the way along with the zs6. I purchased them from gb on the 1st of this month. They still haven't shipped them out ._.
> Comparing the pro HD and zs5, they both are very detailed but as I mentioned, my zs5 tend to play some upper notes with greater emphasis. The pro HDs are a tad more bright overall. I would say both of these have fast and neutral bass but I don't hear the audible rumble that I crave with either of these. I prefer thump and rumble to my lower end without it drowning or overshadowing the other frequencies. The pro HDs have a slightly more pronounced v shape.


How has taping the vents treated you?  If you haven't tried you definitely should.


----------



## jaydm99 (Oct 8, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> It might.  But nobody knows for sure until he/she has tried it. Which is why I suggested to not sand in case you do a irreversible modification and regret it.
> I haven't done it myself but that's on the horizon when I have some spare time over a weekend or something as there is more than 1 hotspot on the ears when I wear the ZS5 for extended periods  of over an hour.


Plastidip is completely reversible. It's a peepable paint so I might end up trying it soon.


----------



## maxxevv

Yes, I'm aware of Plastidip.  What I was referring to was the acoustics being affected part.  I have not tried it on an earphone myself, so don't know how it might or might not affect its sound.    
Do share your results if you do!    

I'll probably go the route of epoxy resin / putty when I get down to doing it as I do have some lying around at the workshop at work.


----------



## BurningSkies

I dunno man. I wore my ZS6's for over 2 hours on stage, and beyond adjusting my main levels (they appear to lack some sensitivity compared to the ZSTs), I didn't find them overly bright or have any serious fatigue from them. I rode just as much hi-hat in my mix as I ever do.


----------



## sghound

Wiljen said:


> I think I said it and was referring more to poor source material than to the player itself.  Poorly recorded or mastered tracks are going to produce poor results.  Some headphones are more forgiving than others of these mistakes.  The Zs6 is not particularly forgiving of poor source material.



x 10


----------



## dbaker1981

I’m listening to the zs6 on my dx200 right now. They are very clear and detailed. But I’m starting to grab just a little bit of  semblance. It’s not much but is noticeable.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'm starting to think I'd gotten too used to the blunted ZS5v1 haha.


----------



## groucho69

dbaker1981 said:


> I’m listening to the zs6 on my dx200 right now. They are very clear and detailed. But I’m starting to grab just a little bit of  semblance. It’s not much but is noticeable.



Semblance?


----------



## dbaker1981

groucho69 said:


> Semblance?




Not sure if I’m spelling it right. Just a little bit of that sss sound on certain songs. It might have to do with the recording more than the iems.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

groucho69 said:


> Semblance?



I believe they meant sibilance.


----------



## mbwilson111

sibilance


----------



## dbaker1981

SomeGuyDude said:


> I believe they meant sibilance.




Yea I was using voice dictation and that’s the way my iPhone spelled it. Lol


----------



## mbwilson111

dbaker1981 said:


> Yea I was using voice dictation and that’s the way my iPhone spelled it. Lol



I have seen some very strange results from that.


----------



## groucho69 (Oct 8, 2017)

dbaker1981 said:


> Yea I was using voice dictation and that’s the way my iPhone spelled it. Lol



I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing a new term to me. We can make it a new term for having similar sound profiles. Or not.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

dbaker1981 said:


> I’m listening to the zs6 on my dx200 right now. They are very clear and detailed. But I’m starting to grab just a little bit of  semblance. It’s not much but is noticeable.


I've got three questions questions though.
1)Does the bass have good thump and rumble?
2)How are the mids and vocals? Are they recessed, forward or natural?
3)what is the maximum amount you would you be willing to pay for an iem like the zs6?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fahim Foysal said:


> I've got three questions questions though.
> 1)Does the bass have good thump and rumble?
> 2)How are the mids and vocals? Are they recessed, forward or natural?
> 3)what is the maximum amount you would you be willing to pay for an iem like the zs6?


Let's hear from all the ZS6 owners. {good questions}


----------



## Wiljen

Fahim Foysal said:


> I've got three questions questions though.
> 1)Does the bass have good thump and rumble?
> 2)How are the mids and vocals? Are they recessed, forward or natural?
> 3)what is the maximum amount you would you be willing to pay for an iem like the zs6?




Speaking as a Zs6 owner

1.) Yes, but it is not a boosted bass.  The Zs6 has plenty of slam but it is masterfully disguised as a well controlled bass.
2.) Mids are definitely not the focus of the Zs6 and do take a little bit of a backseat to the treble.  I know, odd as we usually talk about mids yielding to bass.  This is not to say mids are bad and they are not pronouncedly recessed.   Vocals are good if female vocals can be a touch strident due to the treble forward nature of the Zs6.
3.) I think the Zs6 fits extremely well at the price point it is in ($50 US).  I think when you get to the $100 mark there are better choices and part of the appeal of the Zs6 is that it is $100s worth of sound and quality for $50.   At the $100 mark the new Fiio 9 or the Magosi are better to my ear.


----------



## Wiljen

As a comparison, the Zs6 is a bit like the Fostex T50rp of the IEM world.   It has a very strong base but isn't a perfect product.  For those willing to play with modding, they both represent a starting point that can create something that sounds way better than the price if you are willing to do the work.   On the other hand,  I've never heard anyone say that the modified T50rp is better than an LCD-4 and nor will a Zs6 ever dethrone something like the Noble Katana.  The fun of the Zs6 is that a $50 entry fee can get you into a $100 to $150 show.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> As a comparison, the Zs6 is a bit like the Fostex T50rp of the IEM world.   It has a very strong base but isn't a perfect product.  For those willing to play with modding, they both represent a starting point that can create something that sounds way better than the price if you are willing to do the work.   On the other hand,  I've never heard anyone say that the modified T50rp is better than an LCD-4 and nor will a Zs6 ever dethrone something like the Noble Katana.  The fun of the Zs6 is that a $50 entry fee can get you into a $100 to $150 show.


Love the entry fee analogy


----------



## HiFiChris

Fahim Foysal said:


> I've got three questions questions though.
> 1)Does the bass have good thump and rumble?


Yep. It's strong but (most of the time) not bloated and will probably not be enough to satisfy die-hard bassheads although it is clearly boosted.



> 2)How are the mids and vocals? Are they recessed, forward or natural?


Not really recessed but they aren't in your face either. Upper mids are on the brighter, airier side, however without coming close to being overly thin or unnatural. Here, I see the biggest tuning improvement over the ZS5 v1 that rather often appeared a bit too hollow and distant in the mids for music with a more serious vocal focus.



> 3)what is the maximum amount you would you be willing to pay for an iem like the zs6?


Between $420 and $1,099.00 MSRP if a better cable, slightly adjusted visual design and different drivers were used, along with a cool little pin badge.


----------



## dbaker1981

Fahim Foysal said:


> I've got three questions questions though.
> 1)Does the bass have good thump and rumble?
> 2)How are the mids and vocals? Are they recessed, forward or natural?
> 3)what is the maximum amount you would you be willing to pay for an iem like the zs6?




Wiljen pretty much hit it on the head. I’m definitely cool with paying what I did for them.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Wiljen said:


> Speaking as a Zs6 owner
> 
> 1.) Yes, but it is not a boosted bass.  The Zs6 has plenty of slam but it is masterfully disguised as a well controlled bass.
> 2.) Mids are definitely not the focus of the Zs6 and do take a little bit of a backseat to the treble.  I know, odd as we usually talk about mids yielding to bass.  This is not to say mids are bad and they are not pronouncedly recessed.   Vocals are good if female vocals can be a touch strident due to the treble forward nature of the Zs6.
> 3.) I think the Zs6 fits extremely well at the price point it is in ($50 US).  I think when you get to the $100 mark there are better choices and part of the appeal of the Zs6 is that it is $100s worth of sound and quality for $50.   At the $100 mark the new Fiio 9 or the Magosi are better to my ear.


I didn't know you owned the f9s. I was looking into the fiio f9s too but couldn't find anyone who listened to both the zs6 and f9. How do they compare in terms of bass, mids, highs and soundstage? I hear f9s have a boost in the 7khz region that makes it a bit fatiguing.


----------



## dbaker1981 (Oct 8, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> I didn't know you owned the f9s. I was looking into the fiio f9s too but couldn't find anyone who listened to both the zs6 and f9. How do they compare in terms of bass, mids, highs and soundstage? I hear f9s have a boost in the 7khz region that makes it a bit fatiguing.




I wouldn’t say


Fahim Foysal said:


> I didn't know you owned the f9s. I was looking into the fiio f9s too but couldn't find anyone who listened to both the zs6 and f9. How do they compare in terms of bass, mids, highs and soundstage? I hear f9s have a boost in the 7khz region that makes it a bit fatiguing.




I wouldn’t say fatiguing but they are bright. Very clear and detailed. I must say they are probably my favorite iem I own right now. I enjoy them more than my IT03 by a wide margin. The F9’s I’m talking about.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

HiFiChris said:


> Between $420 and $1,099.00 MSRP if a better cable, slightly adjusted visual design and different drivers were used, along with a cool little pin badge.


I would be willing to pay 100k for a toyota corolla if they 'upgraded' it to a lamborghini huracan engine, body, seats, dash, drivetrain, transmission and also a huracan logo..

Jokes aside. How much would you actually be willing to pay for a stock zs6 assuming you didn't know the retail price.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 8, 2017)

dbaker1981 said:


> I wouldn’t say
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn’t say fatiguing but they are bright. Very clear and detailed. I must say they are probably my favorite iem I own right now. I enjoy them more than my IT03 by a wide margin. The F9’s I’m talking about.


Glad they sound so good. I will order them after I get hold of some cash.

I find it odd that all bright iems sound 'detailed' and 'clear'. Is it actual detail that we hear or are our brain tricked into thinking that the sound is detailed when there is a boost in certain parts of the higher frequencies. The feeling of hearing more details than we actually would in a live performance isn't good right?


----------



## Wiljen

Fahim Foysal said:


> I didn't know you owned the f9s. I was looking into the fiio f9s too but couldn't find anyone who listened to both the zs6 and f9. How do they compare in terms of bass, mids, highs and soundstage? I hear f9s have a boost in the 7khz region that makes it a bit fatiguing.



Both the F9 and the Zs6 share a hotter than normal treble and both need a bit of EQ or foams to help cut that.  Once that is done the Fiio has a bit better upper mids and a better soundstage than the Zs6.  Bass is probably a wash between the two as both are very good.  Without tuning, both can be a bit sibilant with female vocals.  The other big win for the F9 is the fit.  Fiio nailed the ergonomics where as the Zs6 will be too big for some and not comfortable for others.


----------



## Fox2twenty

HiFiChris said:


> Yep. It's strong but (most of the time) not bloated and will probably not be enough to satisfy die-hard bassheads although it is clearly boosted.
> 
> 
> Not really recessed but they aren't in your face either. Upper mids are on the brighter, airier side, however without coming close to being overly thin or unnatural. Here, I see the biggest tuning improvement over the ZS5 v1 that rather often appeared a bit too hollow and distant in the mids for music with a more serious vocal focus.
> ...


That's pretty high pesos, 420 huh?


----------



## Wiljen

The Magosi K3 HD is the one to look into if you want something with a more refined treble.   The K3 HD has better mids and treble than either the F9 or the Zs6 at the expense of the bass being less present and slightly less extended.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> The Magosi K3 HD is the one to look into if you want something with a more refined treble.   The K3 HD has better mids and treble than either the F9 or the Zs6 at the expense of the bass being less present and slightly less extended.


Is this what you are recommending at ~100?

Magaosi K3 HD Balanced Armature    Dynamic Driver Hybrid IEM HiFi Audiophile In Ear Earphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/v2emQjEV 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Is this what you are recommending at ~100?
> 
> Magaosi K3 HD Balanced Armature    Dynamic Driver Hybrid IEM HiFi Audiophile In Ear Earphone
> http://s.aliexpress.com/v2emQjEV
> (from AliExpress Android)


@Wiljen, is the K3 HD 60$ better than the ZS6?


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> I find it odd that all bright iems sound 'detailed' and 'clear'. Is it actual detail that we hear or are our brain tricked into thinking that the sound is detailed when there is a boost in certain parts of the higher frequencies. The feeling of hearing more details than we actually would in a live performance isn't good right?


Bright and detailed describe very different things, but they are commonly found together for good reason.

Bright tends to correlate to an overall balance shifted towards a treble bias.

Detailed tends to correlate to hearing microdetails and not having them painted over by other things.

From there, it should be fairly obvious that an overall treble bias helps prevent your brain or your gear from painting over microdetails - however you want to think of it, both are probably true to some extent. 


And where exactly do you draw the line between "tricking your brain" and the nature of your reality?
A and B are the same color.


----------



## HiFiChris

Fahim Foysal said:


> I would be willing to pay 100k for a toyota corolla if they 'upgraded' it to a lamborghini huracan engine, body, seats, dash, drivetrain, transmission and also a huracan logo..
> 
> Jokes aside. How much would you actually be willing to pay for a stock zs6 assuming you didn't know the retail price.




Without the hot and sizzly upper treble and with a more decent stock cable (like the cheap but well-made braided/twisted Knowledge Zenith silver cable), I would say that a (very) low three-digit price would be absolutely justifiable due to the sound signature, not too shabby technical performance and great build quality. 
As it is and without any EQ corrections applied - maybe $35 (not including build quality) to $55 (including build quality).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Trebly headphones are "detailed" in the same sense that turning off the subwoofers in a home theater system makes it more "detailed." You're hearing microdetails that aren't supposed to be plainly audible. Not surprisingly, these "details" are almost always artifacts that just so happen to exist way up on the frequency spectrum. Peculiar how no one ever describes a warm headphone as detailed. Hmmm...

BTW, picked up those "Bee" foam tips from Amazon for $6. I think I prefer them to the Comply just because the shape is more tapered, makes them easier to sit in place.


----------



## Keller2

kokakolia said:


> I have a (Lenovo) Zuk Z2, and yeah it's a great phone on paper but the software is lacking. There are a lot of small glitches everywhere. Overall, the phone is not as good as the specs would suggest. But it's still amazing for the price.
> 
> I don't know about Xiaomi. Maybe they're better than Lenovo. My next phone might be Xiaomi. The Redmi 4x is super cheap and still a good phone, provided you don't need big specs (which only matter for gaming apps, so I don't see the point).


Unlock it, put carbon rom on it and you'll have a good software experience on it aswell.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> And where exactly do you draw the line between "tricking your brain" and the nature of your reality?
> A and B are the same color.


That is deep man.


SomeGuyDude said:


> Trebly headphones are "detailed" in the same sense that turning off the subwoofers in a home theater system makes it more "detailed." You're hearing microdetails that aren't supposed to be plainly audible. Not surprisingly, these "details" are almost always artifacts that just so happen to exist way up on the frequency spectrum. Peculiar how no one ever describes a warm headphone as detailed. Hmmm...
> 
> BTW, picked up those "Bee" foam tips from Amazon for $6. I think I prefer them to the Comply just because the shape is more tapered, makes them easier to sit in place.


Another thing i noticed is that bright iems are also the ones that give you that overly spacious and airy sound. You are supposed to hear details that are meant to be heard in a live recording and the sound is supposed to be as spacious and airy as it would in a live recording. I don't understand why many so called 'reference' iems with multiple ba driver iem have coloured upper frequecies. BA are supposed to produce more detailed sound by nature. Why overdo it?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Fahim Foysal said:


> Another thing i noticed is that bright iems are also the ones that give you that overly spacious and airy sound. You are supposed to hear details that are meant to be heard in a live recording and the sound is supposed to be as spacious and airy as it would in a live recording. I don't understand why many so called 'reference' iems with multiple ba driver iem have coloured upper frequecies. BA are supposed to produce more detailed sound by nature. Why overdo it?



Because "audiophiles" have constantly praised brighter headphones for their accuracy and the anti-Beats backlash has caused a serious disdain for headphones with potent bass. It's definitely true, crank down the low end and crank up the treble and wow things are gonna sound "detailed" and "airy" simply because there's no bass frequencies in the air. Drives me nuts.


----------



## -sandro-

how much did the zs5 cost when it came out? and how long did it take to get to $15?


----------



## vector84 (Oct 8, 2017)

Fahim Foysal said:


> Another thing i noticed is that bright iems are also the ones that give you that overly spacious and airy sound. You are supposed to hear details that are meant to be heard in a live recording and the sound is supposed to be as spacious and airy as it would in a live recording.


There's no simple answer to this. Live sound is a directional experience (and has elements of touch in addition to hearing). Headphones and IEMs are not. In theory planars come closer but it's still not the same.

It would probably be helpful for you to understand the nature of our perception of directional sound.  In a live sound environment acoustic reflections produce gain and damping factors in relation to specific frequencies relative to others, these colorations along with stereo audio cues are decoded by our brain to place the sound in space while adjusting it to its "proper" coloration/tonality.  This process is simply not possible when the speakers are strapped to your head - what you perceive as directionality then is a combination then of stereo cues (timing and volume bias) and whatever portion of the audio stream your brain chooses to decode as positional information, largely based on hints from those same stereo cues (which can include the coloration itself being interpreted as spatial information)

You can find all sorts of research on this subject but we are yet again well off track for this thread 


Fahim Foysal said:


> I don't understand why many so called 'reference' iems with multiple ba driver iem have coloured upper frequecies. BA are supposed to produce more detailed sound by nature. Why overdo it?


Different hearing biases and preferences and different opinions on what monitoring and reference means in different contexts - musicians on stage might want a specific bias for any variety of reasons, for example.

And a healthy dose of marketing voodoo.  BAs by nature produce sound at increased electrical efficiency (lower power use).  You can attach all sorts of other contextual connotations to them, but that is what they were designed to do, plain and simple.


----------



## peskypesky

SomeGuyDude said:


> Because "audiophiles" have constantly praised brighter headphones for their accuracy and the anti-Beats backlash has caused a *serious disdain for headphones with potent bass*.



I have serious disdain for headphones with less-than-powerful bass.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

peskypesky said:


> I have serious disdain for headphones with less-than-powerful bass.



Same. Nothing ruins music faster than a weak rhythm section, IMO. If the bass drum doesn't feel like it's hitting me in the chest, then I don't want to be listening. My first test tracks are rock/metal songs that I know have well-recorded drums and bass guitar, because if that doesn't sound authentic I know I'm out. 

Still having moments of mild surprise with the ZS6's sibilance, though I'm not going to call it necessarily bad, just that hearing the cymbals sound more prominent is taking some adjusting to with an IEM.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> Bright and detailed describe very different things, but they are commonly found together for good reason.
> 
> Bright tends to correlate to an overall balance shifted towards a treble bias.
> 
> ...


Are you serious about this optical illusion? You're blowing my mind!


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeGuyDude said:


> Trebly headphones are "detailed" in the same sense that turning off the subwoofers in a home theater system makes it more "detailed." You're hearing microdetails that aren't supposed to be plainly audible. Not surprisingly, these "details" are almost always artifacts that just so happen to exist way up on the frequency spectrum. Peculiar how no one ever describes a warm headphone as detailed. Hmmm...
> 
> BTW, picked up those "Bee" foam tips from Amazon for $6. I think I prefer them to the Comply just because the shape is more tapered, makes them easier to sit in place.


The New Bee foams are super cheap on Gearbest.


----------



## Wiljen

-sandro- said:


> how much did the zs5 cost when it came out? and how long did it take to get to $15?



$37 if memory serves on gearbest and less than 3 months later they are $17 on sale.  I expect the Zs6 will be $29 by Christmas


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> $37 if memory serves on gearbest and less than 3 months later they are $17 on sale.  I expect the Zs6 will be $29 by Christmas


Great news!!


----------



## Wiljen

Fox2twenty said:


> @Wiljen, is the K3 HD 60$ better than the ZS6?



Yes, that is the animal I was commenting on.  It has a more laid-back signature and really is very listenable.  It loses a little bit in bass quantity and sub-bass extension when compared to the Zs6 but wins those points back in the mids and then some.  Soundstage might be a bit deeper on the K3 as well.  For those complaining about fit of the Zs6 the K3 is also a smaller, better shape and is more likely to be comfortable for long listening sessions.   The filters add a way to tune the K3 a bit if you decide the initial tuning isnt your cup of tea as well.    It is a bit hard to draw comparisons between the K3HD and the Zs6 in that they are very different sound signatures.    Those that want a ton of bass slam - stay with the Zs6 or the F9.  Those that want a mid-forward warmer more laid-back presentation will like the K3HD.


----------



## dbaker1981

See I'm kinda wierd about my choice of sound. I like very lively mids and highs but it has to have some kick to it. I tried so hard to like the Primo 8's but they just did not have the kick that i need down low.


----------



## Wiljen

dbaker1981 said:


> See I'm kinda wierd about my choice of sound. I like very lively mids and highs but it has to have some kick to it. I tried so hard to like the Primo 8's but they just did not have the kick that i need down low.



Name a few you do like - maybe that will give me a frame of reference


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> Yes, that is the animal I was commenting on.  It has a more laid-back signature and really is very listenable.  It loses a little bit in bass quantity and sub-bass extension when compared to the Zs6 but wins those points back in the mids and then some.  Soundstage might be a bit deeper on the K3 as well.  For those complaining about fit of the Zs6 the K3 is also a smaller, better shape and is more likely to be comfortable for long listening sessions.   The filters add a way to tune the K3 a bit if you decide the initial tuning isnt your cup of tea as well.    It is a bit hard to draw comparisons between the K3HD and the Zs6 in that they are very different sound signatures.    Those that want a ton of bass slam - stay with the Zs6 or the F9.  Those that want a mid-forward warmer more laid-back presentation will like the K3HD.


Wow, that sounds like what they used to call warm and lush regarding the mids... Not sure I'm ready to move back up to 3 digit expenditures yet.


----------



## dbaker1981

Wiljen said:


> Name a few you do like - maybe that will give me a frame of reference




I like the F9’s. The audio technica msr7 for HP. I own a lot but most of them I just use for certain moods that I’m in. I hated the dunu Titian 3. Wasn’t a fan of the Primos. And although I liked signature of the 1More quads they will not fit in my ears.


----------



## vector84

Fox2twenty said:


> Are you serious about this optical illusion? You're blowing my mind!


If you're into such references, you might choose to describe such shadow trickery as an "unavoidable illusion".
You simply can't help but see it, and it only reveals itself when stripped of its context (the shadows).





I meant to link a source and forgot though 
http://nerdist.com/5-optical-illusions-that-show-you-why-your-brain-messes-with-the-dress/


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> If you're into such references, you might choose to describe such shadow trickery as an "unavoidable illusion".
> You simply can't help but see it, and it only reveals itself when stripped of its context (the shadows).
> 
> 
> ...


Man, lol, mind blowing! I love it


----------



## vector84 (Oct 8, 2017)

So with a couple days to let things sink in - as expected, perceptions of an HF spikes have largely dissipated with some brain burn in - but the KZ OFC cable still strikes me as sounding noticeably different from stock (ZS5 v1).

Mostly it's a sense of a slight but quite noticeable bass boost.

There's a few other artifacts that don't stand out nearly as prominently to me that I tend to assume will fade with time.  Vocals seem a touch more forward and clear, but I'd tend to think that's a level difference and contrast effect thing.  I'm happy with the results, but I'd tend to think that's mostly expectation bias. 


PS: I remain firmly in the "this is an electrical issue" camp though, so no, I won't personally compare it to a silver cable.  Sorry, don't like the way they look.


----------



## khighly

Wonderful tune mastered and recorded at the gem of the PNW — KEXP, sounds excellent on the ZS5v1's.


----------



## wastan

Fox2twenty said:


> Wow, that sounds like what they used to call warm and lush regarding the mids... Not sure I'm ready to move back up to 3 digit expenditures yet.



FWIW I've got the K3 and the ZS5 v.1. Clarity and soundstage are hands down superior on the K3. In terms of being listenable, I bounce around through a lot of genres and the K3 is honey smooth and consistent. With the zs5, it seems that reasonably often I'll come across something e.g.,  FKA Twig "glass and patron", where the tuning just doesn't work for me. The bass is more pronounced on the zs5 but I don't think there's a lot you're missing with the K3. Overall there's no comparison; the Magaosi is a clear level up. If you ever find it on sale, even the earlier Magaosi k1 would win head to head with the zs5.


----------



## khighly

wastan said:


> FWIW I've got the K3 and the ZS5 v.1. Clarity and soundstage are hands down superior on the K3. In terms of being listenable, I bounce around through a lot of genres and the K3 is honey smooth and consistent. With the zs5, it seems that reasonably often I'll come across something e.g.,  FKA Twig "glass and patron", where the tuning just doesn't work for me. The bass is more pronounced on the zs5 but I don't think there's a lot you're missing with the K3. Overall there's no comparison; the Magaosi is a clear level up. If you ever find it on sale, even the earlier Magaosi k1 would win head to head with the zs5.



Only $70 more!

I agree with ZS5 sound stage, it's not very large. When I go back to my ZST's I'm blown away by things floating around my head. ZST's are my gaming IEM's since I use an external studio mic. I'm waiting for KZ's next soundstage monster.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

after measuring ZST, couldn't resist to compare it to ZS5 v1..

ZST has got less bass (although you can tweak it a bit by playing with the width of the dynamic driver vent hole), and the peak at 8-9kHz is a bit higher. rest is quite similar (tonally speaking..)


----------



## eaglesgift

Going back to the discussion of tuning earlier, and how some people think that the squiggly lines in frequency response graphs denote poor tuning......I thought that phones were tuned that way on purpose, to produce a more level listening experience, owing to the fact that our ears hear the different frequencies at different levels. If you look at the graphs on this site - http://www.feilding.net/sfuad/musi3012-01/html/lectures/007_hearing_II.htm the peaks in IEM frequencies seem to be compensating for the dips in our hearing at these frequencies. In other words, KZ IEMS (in common with other IEMS) are actually tuned this way to sound good and not just thrown together with random drivers.....or have I missed the point?


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

Radek Jandl said:


> Yeah, i saw that, so that means the foam wasn´t in ZST?


can't find the foam in ZST.
i've been playing with quantity of foam in ES3. it tames the mid frequencies of the dynamic driver (from 1.5kHz to 3.5kHz). the more foam, the more cut.
but the biggest tonal difference of ES3 respect ZST, ZS5, and ZS6, is the big peak at 5kHz (about 9dB higher!). wasn't that the main frequency of sibilance?


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 10, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> Seems like the "foams" settles the zs6.
> Also there should be significant mid bass
> 
> Can you put 2 graphs together
> ...


----------



## Fox2twenty

hakuzen said:


> can't find the foam in ZST.
> i've been playing with quantity of foam in ES3. it tames the mid frequencies of the dynamic driver (from 1.5kHz to 3.5kHz). the more foam, the more cut.
> but the biggest tonal difference of ES3 respect ZST, ZS5, and ZS6, is the big peak at 5kHz (about 9dB higher!). wasn't that the main frequency of sibilance?
> 
> ...


I love the he graphs


----------



## Fox2twenty

hakuzen said:


> Spoiler: ZS5/ZS6 - stetotip/foam FR


Wow, the foams really make a predictable cut to the treble spike.

These are cool! Thanks man!


----------



## vector84 (Oct 9, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> can't find the foam in ZST.
> i've been playing with quantity of foam in ES3. it tames the mid frequencies of the dynamic driver (from 1.5kHz to 3.5kHz). the more foam, the more cut.
> but the biggest tonal difference of ES3 respect ZST, ZS5, and ZS6, is the big peak at 5kHz (about 9dB higher!). wasn't that the main frequency of sibilance?
> 
> ...


5-8kHz is indeed typically associated with sibilance, but I think boosting around 5kHz also helps speech intelligibility quite a bit?

And sibilance can occur well outside of that range in either direction, as even though it tends to be considered narrow band noise in the context of speech, it typically carries a fair amount of energy well outside its characteristic peak:
https://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/10.htm


----------



## hakuzen

vector84 said:


> 5-8kHz is indeed typically associated with sibilance, but I think boosting around 5kHz also helps speech intelligibility quite a bit?
> 
> And sibilance can occur well outside of that range in either direction, as even though it tends to be considered narrow band noise in the context of speech, it typically carries a fair amount of energy well outside its characteristic peak:
> https://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/10.htm


thanks!!


----------



## Viber

khighly said:


> Wonderful tune mastered and recorded at the gem of the PNW — KEXP, sounds excellent on the ZS5v1's.




Gotta say i'm digging the rock songs on this thread. 
Didn't know about KEXP youtube channel, thanks.


----------



## randomnin

eaglesgift said:


> Going back to the discussion of tuning earlier, and how some people think that the squiggly lines in frequency response graphs denote poor tuning......I thought that phones were tuned that way on purpose, to produce a more level listening experience, owing to the fact that our ears hear the different frequencies at different levels. If you look at the graphs on this site - http://www.feilding.net/sfuad/musi3012-01/html/lectures/007_hearing_II.htm the peaks in IEM frequencies seem to be compensating for the dips in our hearing at these frequencies. In other words, KZ IEMS (in common with other IEMS) are actually tuned this way to sound good and not just thrown together with random drivers.....or have I missed the point?


Of course what is written in that lecture is true, however it doesn't seem like KZ have paid much attention to those graphs either. If we use that data, then there should've been a steady drop from bass to other frequencies, but that's not what we see here. They more likely have found a single signature that seems good by ear to most people and have been using it ever since ZST (judging from hakuzen's awesome collection of graphs of KZ hybrids), maybe even earlier.


----------



## randomnin

vector84 said:


> There's no simple answer to this. Live sound is a directional experience (and has elements of touch in addition to hearing). Headphones and IEMs are not. In theory planars come closer but it's still not the same.
> 
> It would probably be helpful for you to understand the nature of our perception of directional sound.  In a live sound environment acoustic reflections produce gain and damping factors in relation to specific frequencies relative to others, these colorations along with stereo audio cues are decoded by our brain to place the sound in space while adjusting it to its "proper" coloration/tonality.  This process is simply not possible when the speakers are strapped to your head - what you perceive as directionality then is a combination then of stereo cues (timing and volume bias) and whatever portion of the audio stream your brain chooses to decode as positional information, largely based on hints from those same stereo cues (which can include the coloration itself being interpreted as spatial information)
> 
> ...


Oh,so would it be correct, if I concluded that all this expressive language regarding space, depth and positioning is unwarranted when it comes to IEMs?


----------



## eaglesgift

randomnin said:


> Of course what is written in that lecture is true, however it doesn't seem like KZ have paid much attention to those graphs either. If we use that data, then there should've been a steady drop from bass to other frequencies, but that's not what we see here. They more likely have found a single signature that seems good by ear to most people and have been using it ever since ZST (judging from hakuzen's awesome collection of graphs of KZ hybrids), maybe even earlier.


Why should there be a steady drop from bass to higher frequencies? That's what's happening in our ears - the frequency response of phones should be the mirror image of that (assuming a neutral sound was being aimed for) not the same. My main point was that a flat FR would sound awful and the high frequency peaks are roughly where our high frequency dips in hearing ability are.


----------



## randomnin

eaglesgift said:


> Why should there be a steady drop from bass to higher frequencies? That's what's happening in our ears - the frequency response of phones should be the mirror image of that (assuming a neutral sound was being aimed for) not the same. My main point was that a flat FR would sound awful and the high frequency peaks are roughly where our high frequency dips in hearing ability are.


Definitely not at 2kHz, where comes the first weird peak.


----------



## CYoung234

Wiljen said:


> As a comparison, the Zs6 is a bit like the Fostex T50rp of the IEM world.   It has a very strong base but isn't a perfect product.  For those willing to play with modding, they both represent a starting point that can create something that sounds way better than the price if you are willing to do the work.   On the other hand,  I've never heard anyone say that the modified T50rp is better than an LCD-4 and nor will a Zs6 ever dethrone something like the Noble Katana.  The fun of the Zs6 is that a $50 entry fee can get you into a $100 to $150 show.



First, my ZS6s are not here yet, so my comments will compare the ZS5. Your comparison to the Fostex T50RP is interesting, as I own a pair that I modded myself. I have never heard the LCD4. Frankly, the T50RP sounded like garbage unmodified, but pretty much glorious when properly modified. The ZS5 and I assume ZS6 have lots of potential. But, for me, the ZS5 sounds quite good right out of the box. So, they are not really a fair comparison from that standpoint.

But, I think your point was that both are great bargains, and compare very well with more expensive products. For me, given that all audio systems are imperfect simulations of real life, it has never been worth paying for that last 5%, when you can get 95% of the effect for 10x or 50x less money...


----------



## vector84 (Oct 9, 2017)

randomnin said:


> Oh,so would it be correct, if I concluded that all this expressive language regarding space, depth and positioning is unwarranted when it comes to IEMs?


Not at all - though it is why people take issue with 3D imaging descriptions (Z axis) - much of that data is considered to be a result of the FR variance of the headphone/IEM itself, so those are more "fake" as it were, but that's still not a good enough answer honestly and research by groups like Harman and InnerFidelity continues on the subject.

As for non-3D positioning (besides the obvious stereo cues, volume panning and delay), most of what I've seen currently relates it strongly to a combination of phase coherence and your brain's ability to recognize the reflections in a recording and correlate them with phase data to properly restore some pitches at least.  For example if your brain is trained to hear the generic HRTF convolution used in positional audio for PC gaming, you're far more likely to be able to recognize it and take cues from it.


----------



## vector84

randomnin said:


> Definitely not at 2kHz, where comes the first weird peak.


You should check out some Harman and InnerFidelity research.  That peak makes you feel like you're in a room, instead of playing sound from infinity and beyond.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 9, 2017)

Well, I received my Z6's Saturday and popped them in OOB and they sounded decent. Swapped out tips for Comply's and wow.
Overall imopression (IMHO), very fluid and airy layers of instruments (especially drums) very clear no distortions. Extremely satisfied. Source DX200 AMP1.
Just remember that everyone has different perception to sound, but these are definitely a keeper. Have been listening exclusively for last 2 days.


----------



## snip3r77

mrmoto050 said:


> Well, I received my Z6's Saturday and popped them in OOB and they sounded decent. Swapped out tips for Comply's and wow.
> Overall imopression (IMHO), very fluid and airy layers of instruments (especially drums) very clear no distortions. Extremely satisfied. Source DX200 AMP1.
> Just remember that everyone has different perception to sound, but these are definitely a keeper. Have been listening exclusively for last 2 days.



I'd wait for GB discount


----------



## Fox2twenty

CYoung234 said:


> paying





mrmoto050 said:


> Well, I received my Z6's Saturday and popped them in OOB and they sounded decent. Swapped out tips for Comply's and wow.
> Overall imopression (IMHO), very fluid and airy layers of instruments (especially drums) very clear no distortions. Extremely satisfied. Source DX200 AMP1.
> Just remember that everyone has different perception to sound, but these are definitely a keeper. Have been listening exclusively for last 2 days.


High praise. The anecdotal info about foams matches those cool graphs that @hakuzen did.


----------



## Wiljen

I think the big question is where does Kz go next?   With being new to aluminum shells, I think they have a lot of experimenting that could be done with re-shelling some of their existing product line.   Or do they pick another line to clone in the same way the Zs5/6 copied the style of campfire?  I could see them attempting to clone the shape of the Noble since it is easily recognized by sight.    I think that part of their choice to use the Campfire design is: from a distance, everyone knows from the look who made that product.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> I think the big question is where does Kz go next?   With being new to aluminum shells, I think they have a lot of experimenting that could be done with re-shelling some of their existing product line.   Or do they pick another line to clone in the same way the Zs5/6 copied the style of campfire?  I could see them attempting to clone the shape of the Noble since it is easily recognized by sight.    I think that part of their choice to use the Campfire design is: from a distance, everyone knows from the look who made that product.


I like the exaggerated approach, ie more drivers is better.

The ES6 should come out with dual dynamics and TRIPLE Armatures.


----------



## Wiljen

I'd like to see them take a step back and use the shell from the Zs6 with a single full range BA that is really tuned for the shell.


----------



## vector84

Wiljen said:


> I'd like to see them take a step back and use the shell from the Zs6 with a single full range BA that is really tuned for the shell.


KZ really seems to want to push their own BA manufacturing, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think they've put a full range BA in anything, at least not any time recently?

I would love to see what they can do on that front too though, but I get the feeling we're going to be waiting a while - here's hoping


----------



## wastan

khighly said:


> Only $70 more!
> 
> I agree with ZS5 sound stage, it's not very large. When I go back to my ZST's I'm blown away by things floating around my head. ZST's are my gaming IEM's since I use an external studio mic. I'm waiting for KZ's next soundstage monster.



Just doing my part to inform the hype train. Folks were comparing the ZS6 to the K3. K3 is on a different level in terms of SQ from the zs5 which is reportedly only marginally better than the zs6. That $70 does buy you something.


----------



## Wiljen

wastan said:


> Just doing my part to inform the hype train. Folks were comparing the ZS6 to the K3. K3 is on a different level in terms of SQ from the zs5 which is reportedly only marginally better than the zs6. That $70 does buy you something.




This matches with what I had said.  I said at $50 the Zs6 was good, at $100 there were better choices like the K3 or the Fiio F9.  Of those two, my preference is the K3HD.


----------



## wastan

Wiljen said:


> I think the big question is where does Kz go next?   With being new to aluminum shells, I think they have a lot of experimenting that could be done with re-shelling some of their existing product line.   Or do they pick another line to clone in the same way the Zs5/6 copied the style of campfire?  I could see them attempting to clone the shape of the Noble since it is easily recognized by sight.    I think that part of their choice to use the Campfire design is: from a distance, everyone knows from the look who made that product.



I hope the rumored next gen zs3 is a thing. Love, love, love that shell and how it fits. A BA/DD in that shell, particularly if they did something more thoughtful than just jam a BA in the barrel, would be awesome. Oh, and while we're at it, I want it with the matte finish.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wiljen said:


> I think the big question is where does Kz go next?   With being new to aluminum shells, I think they have a lot of experimenting that could be done with re-shelling some of their existing product line.   Or do they pick another line to clone in the same way the Zs5/6 copied the style of campfire?  I could see them attempting to clone the shape of the Noble since it is easily recognized by sight.    I think that part of their choice to use the Campfire design is: from a distance, everyone knows from the look who made that product.



KZ needs to do what 1More and Mee did and take a leap up to the $200 area with something designed in-house from the ground up.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeGuyDude said:


> KZ needs to do what 1More and Mee did and take a leap up to the $200 area with something designed in-house from the ground up.


Mee didn't go that route for a while.... Would be cool to see if kz could hack it though.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 9, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> I like the exaggerated approach, ie more drivers is better.
> 
> The ES6 should come out with dual dynamics and TRIPLE Armatures.


Doesn't that kinda defeats the purpose of having multiple BAs? I mean you got a large dd for the lows, the smaller dd for the mids. Why the heck would you need three BAs for the highs?


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 9, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> I'd like to see them take a step back and use the shell from the Zs6 with a single full range BA that is really tuned for the shell.


 They should make a flagship single dd iem


----------



## TJK81

I would be curious if KZ can manufacture some BA's (2,3, or 4 pcs in each shell) only iem... For example in Shure shell (i like the comfortability of the Shure shells).
And than i would like to see earphones (1DD+1BA) in ZS3 shell, but without any cable, just earphone with BT inside (it could be difficult to manage that thing).
Will look forward what KZ can, lets say, designed.


----------



## HiFiChris (Oct 9, 2017)

My palms were sweaty, knees weak, arms not really heavy
The lighting was set up already, no spaghetti
I wasn't really nervous but the surface looked grey and steady, I was ready
To take photos but I did not notice
That the zoom was stuck, the barrel didn't slide out
Until the last shot when I finally fixed it however
The aperture ring did work this time.
The session's over, photos taken, yeaow! (But let's save them for later today/tomorrow.)


So yeah, the green ZS6 arrived today, just as expected. Stunning build quality, especially for the price, just as with the black ones I already have on hand.
The colour is more like a dark peppermint green or shade of teal. Doesn't look as cool as I imagined it. Dunno, seems like I now need the red one as well.

Y'er all probably asking yourself "Honey Boo Boo Chris, does it sound any different from the black ZS6 of an early batch you received some time ago?", and my reply is "no".
Phase and sides of the cable are correct this time unlike with the upgrade cable of the ZS5 I revieweed some time ago where the polarity and sides were inverted. But the sides and phase were already correct with the black ZS6.


Anyway, as for the tuning: This later batch green ZS6 sounds basically identical to the early batch black ZS6. So yeah.

What I also noticed (by an ingenious accident (the LH Labs Geek Out IEM 100 that I personally love and always use for frequency response measurements because of its low output impedance has got another output with a claimed high impedance (47 Ohms). The plug I cover it with came loose and I though "hey, that's the perfect device to easily measure the effect a pretty high output impedance has on the sound of any IEM", and so I tested with the ZS6)): increasing the output impedance doesn't change a thing about the midrange or bass. But it affects the nastiness and tames it:


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fahim Foysal said:


> Doesn't that kinda defeats the purpose of having multiple BAs? I man you got a large dd for the lows, the smaller dd for the mids. Why the heck would you need three BAs for the highs?


For air movement. Or they could do two different crossovers - the dynamics could do full range split and then the BAs could also do a three way crossover. Idk, I like seeing ridiculous designs.


----------



## kokakolia

SomeGuyDude said:


> KZ needs to do what 1More and Mee did and take a leap up to the $200 area with something designed in-house from the ground up.



No! That would add value to the brand, which translates to higher prices. I just love this idea of having this "top secret audiophile bargain".


----------



## Wiljen

I think the crossover in multi-driver designs almost always represents a weak point and thus my request for a single BA.  The Crossovers introduce problems with coherency.  It is nearly impossible to keep the full range of sound at exactly the same level when mating multiple drivers and those overlapped regions suffer as a result since there isn't a hard cut-off at say 500hz below which the dynamic works and above which the BA takes over.  The fact that the dynamic rolls off up to 850Hz or so and the BA extends down to 400 Hz means that overlapped range from 400-850 is subject to some really odd effects.   That is what the R&D money you pay for a TOTL IEM goes for.   Making those transitions between one driver and the next smooth and inaudible is a true art form.   Granted single drivers have an inherent weakness in that one end or the other tends to be rolled off or lacks extension so the real trick on a single driver design is finding a driver with extension down to the low teens and up to the mid 20s before they are subject to severe roll-off.   Most now opt for a driver with good bass extension and sacrifice some treble extension as that is generally more acceptable to the masses.   To me, that produces a fairly lifeless signature as they lose all sparkle and cymbals and snare hits lack realism.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> I think the crossover in multi-driver designs almost always represents a weak point and thus my request for a single BA.  The Crossovers introduce problems with coherency.  It is nearly impossible to keep the full range of sound at exactly the same level when mating multiple drivers and those overlapped regions suffer as a result since there isn't a hard cut-off at say 500hz below which the dynamic works and above which the BA takes over.  The fact that the dynamic rolls off up to 850Hz or so and the BA extends down to 400 Hz means that overlapped range from 400-850 is subject to some really odd effects.   That is what the R&D money you pay for a TOTL IEM goes for.   Making those transitions between one driver and the next smooth and inaudible is a true art form.   Granted single drivers have an inherent weakness in that one end or the other tends to be rolled off or lacks extension so the real trick on a single driver design is finding a driver with extension down to the low teens and up to the mid 20s before they are subject to severe roll-off.   Most now opt for a driver with good bass extension and sacrifice some treble extension as that is generally more acceptable to the masses.   To me, that produces a fairly lifeless signature as they lose all sparkle and cymbals and snare hits lack realism.


OK, so now my opinion is that they should do 2 dynamics and 3 BAs in a 5 way crossover. Then if they keep the frequency responsibilities clean, it's worth more money.


----------



## VinceHill24

HiFiChris said:


> My palms were sweaty, knees weak, arms not really heavy
> The lighting was set up already, no spaghetti
> I wasn't really nervous but the surface looked grey and steady, I was ready
> To take photos but I did not notice
> ...


Finally!!! Nicely done! Now the mystery is solved. We can now confirm it's not a QC issue and i'm not hearing things ! Lol

I think it largely boils down to personal preference, source gear / cable matching, or probably brain burn-in which i strongly believe in since i've known a few who shares such experience with the ZS6.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Wiljen said:


> I think the crossover in multi-driver designs almost always represents a weak point and thus my request for a single BA.


Unless you buy the UE 18+ pro that is


----------



## Fox2twenty

VinceHill24 said:


> Finally!!! Nicely done! Now the mystery is solved. We can now confirm it's not a QC issue and i'm not hearing things ! Lol
> 
> I think it largely boils down to personal preference, source gear / cable matching, or probably brain burn-in which i strongly believe in since i've known a few who shares such experience with the ZS6.


@hakuzen s graphs show that foamie fans are correct.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Speaking of foamies, my Gearbest order came in..


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Speaking of foamies, my Gearbest order came in..


Only thing is.. My left ear is still clogged.. Should I try my gear out anyway?


----------



## HiFiChris

Photos are developed, review is uploaded. Save the date, it will go online this following Saturday at 00:06 am CET and will be accessible through the following link, as always with the usual translation options: https://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2017/10/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs6-review-german-deutsch.html

Just a teaser:





(Due to that the black instead of green ZS6 arrived some time ago, the photos were not taken at the location I initially had in mind (with everything already set up...), and this time I forgot one accessory that I had already prepared, but oh well, at least now all of the photos are legal which they wouldn't be in every part of the world if I had used an Idea that I had already used rather recently.)


----------



## Wiljen

Fox2twenty said:


> OK, so now my opinion is that they should do 2 dynamics and 3 BAs in a 5 way crossover. Then if they keep the frequency responsibilities clean, it's worth more money.



You still believe in the tooth fairy too don't you?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> You still believe in the tooth fairy too don't you?


Lol, touché


----------



## hakuzen

HiFiChris said:


> My palms were sweaty, knees weak, arms not really heavy
> The lighting was set up already, no spaghetti
> I wasn't really nervous but the surface looked grey and steady, I was ready
> To take photos but I did not notice
> ...


great! one of the few samples where high source output impedance effects over low impedance BAs, usually nasty effects, helps a lot.

i'm trying to get impedance curve of zs5 v1 and zs6. zs5 v1 seems to be lower impedance.
shall try to find the maximum sound level you can get with zs5 without clipping nor significant distortion while using a current limited source, besides of getting the effects of a high impedance source.


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> great! one of the few samples where high source output impedance effects over low impedance BAs, usually nasty effects, helps a lot.
> 
> i'm trying to get impedance curve of zs5 v1 and zs6. zs5 v1 seems to be lower impedance.
> shall try to find the maximum sound level you can get with zs5 without clipping nor significant distortion while using a current limited source, besides of getting the effects of a high impedance source.


I thought current limited mode depended a lot on specific hardware implementations. I was under the impression that some setups are designed to perform just fine in current limited mode and just have limited volume in such conditions, while others distort, clip or compress when driven into current limited mode?

But I don't know enough about amplifier design to speak to such things with any authority.


----------



## hakuzen

HiFiChris said:


> Photos are developed, review is uploaded. Save the date, it will go online this following Saturday at 00:06 am CET and will be accessible through the following link, as always with the usual translation options: https://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2017/10/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs6-review-german-deutsch.html
> 
> Just a teaser:
> 
> ...


awesome photos, you really make art. green power..


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 9, 2017)

vector84 said:


> I thought current limited mode depended a lot on specific hardware implementations. I was under the impression that some setups are designed to perform just fine in current limited mode and just have limited volume in such conditions, while others distort, clip or compress when driven into current limited mode?
> 
> But I don't know enough about amplifier design to speak to such things with any authority.


i guess current limitations depend of hardware implementation; specifically, of the opamps driving the phones output. i know little (as usual), so no authority either. each opamp have a working voltage range specifications, and maximum current before they clip and/or distort. when driving low impedance phones, current delivered is higher (at same voltage, same power). if the phones are not much sensitive besides (like planars) and some amount of power is needed to achieve enough sound level, current limit of the opamp can be reached, and clipping/distortion occurs.
zs5 have very low impedance, but they are quite sensitive, so i don't think there will be issues. but some people talks about zs5 distortion and source dependency; some researching on sources-zs5 interactions may be worth it.


----------



## sghound

Wiljen said:


> I'd like to see them take a step back and use the shell from the Zs6 with a single full range BA that is really tuned for the shell.



yes please


----------



## sghound

Wiljen said:


> I think the crossover in multi-driver designs almost always represents a weak point and thus my request for a single BA.  The Crossovers introduce problems with coherency.  It is nearly impossible to keep the full range of sound at exactly the same level when mating multiple drivers and those overlapped regions suffer as a result since there isn't a hard cut-off at say 500hz below which the dynamic works and above which the BA takes over.  The fact that the dynamic rolls off up to 850Hz or so and the BA extends down to 400 Hz means that overlapped range from 400-850 is subject to some really odd effects.   That is what the R&D money you pay for a TOTL IEM goes for.   Making those transitions between one driver and the next smooth and inaudible is a true art form.   Granted single drivers have an inherent weakness in that one end or the other tends to be rolled off or lacks extension so the real trick on a single driver design is finding a driver with extension down to the low teens and up to the mid 20s before they are subject to severe roll-off.   Most now opt for a driver with good bass extension and sacrifice some treble extension as that is generally more acceptable to the masses.   To me, that produces a fairly lifeless signature as they lose all sparkle and cymbals and snare hits lack realism.



ON POINT


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> i guess current limitations depend of hardware implementation; specifically, of the opamps driving the phones output. i know little (as usual), so no authority either. each opamp have a working voltage range specifications, and maximum current before they clip and/or distort. when driving low impedance phones, current delivered is higher (at same voltage, same power). if the phones are not much sensitive besides (like planars) and some amount of power is needed to achieve enough sound level, current limit of the opamp can be reached, and clipping/distortion occurs.
> zs5 have very low impedance, but they are quite sensitive, so i don't think there will be issues. but some people talks about zs5 distortion and source dependency; some researching on sources-zs5 interactions may be worth it.


I had issues mostly with gear that shows obvious signs of distortion rising to absurd levels at lower voltages and impedances - Realtek on-boards for example aren't specced for <16 ohms, but even at 16 ohms at the lower end of the volume scale they distort perceptibly - not a problem for lower sensitivity stuff, but a big problem when you're stuck at 2-6% volume, and I can't find references right now, but I'm pretty sure the impedance variants were the same shape plot shifting down in distortion (Y axis) with increasing input impedance.

Not the reference I would prefer to use, but I can't seem to find the stuff I was looking at a few weeks ago.  This at least shows the low voltage distortion issue well enough:
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/realtek-alc-1150.php


----------



## kokakolia

Well, with all these efforts trying to improve the ZS6 shouldn't people seek alternatives instead? Surely, KZ will get it (almost) perfect sometime. But I guess it's subjective. I also find the idea of having 4 drivers kinda overkill (for lack of a better word). It also adds to the cost. The ZS6 is ~$46 already. That's a lot of money for Chi-Fi earbuds. Well, it's still affordable. But, you can buy 6 ZSEs (at $7 a piece) for the price of 1 ZS6 and still have some change. It's just strange to me. I am still waiting for my order to arrive.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm still waiting on my ZS6 to arrive, received the bluetooth cable today and it works well with my ZS5's and my Shanling M1.


----------



## Saoshyant

HungryPanda said:


> I'm still waiting on my ZS6 to arrive, received the bluetooth cable today and it works well with my ZS5's and my Shanling M1.



It's only been two weeks since my order, so I'm still waiting for my tracking to go active.  Always had a Gearbest order arrive, but often have issues with the #, so I usually try to forget about the order.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 9, 2017)

vector84 said:


> I had issues mostly with gear that shows obvious signs of distortion rising to absurd levels at lower voltages and impedances - Realtek on-boards for example aren't specced for <16 ohms, but even at 16 ohms at the lower end of the volume scale they distort perceptibly - not a problem for lower sensitivity stuff, but a big problem when you're stuck at 2-6% volume, and I can't find references right now, but I'm pretty sure the impedance variants were the same shape plot shifting down in distortion (Y axis) with increasing input impedance.
> 
> Not the reference I would prefer to use, but I can't seem to find the stuff I was looking at a few weeks ago.  This at least shows the low voltage distortion issue well enough:
> http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/realtek-alc-1150.php


that card is not intended to drive low impedance phones; it's better to use an amplifier connected to the card's line out, to drive such phones.
that's why raa has not measured its headphone amplifier, only the DAC and line out, thinking of connecting high impedance device to the line out (no reference to different loads). the distortion at different voltage graph suggests you should set output voltage (of line out) at -20 to -15dBFS to get the cleanest signal.

distortion at different loads is another matter; it usually applies to headphones output. for example, check "Maximum voltage output level vs load" and "Maximum current level output vs load" and  graphs and data (Benjie S5 Headphone amplifier http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/benjie-s5.php). they show voltage limitations and current limitations of its phones output.
at 16Ω, to get a perfect clear (minimum distortion) signal: max voltage, 0.01Vrms; max current, 0.91mA. for optimal disto, 0.06Vrms, 3.63mA. some disto ("hard"), 0.08Vrms, 5.13mA. clipping at 0.16Vrms or at 10.21mA.

i've got a realtek alc888 (older); didn't check headphones output distortion at different loads either, but measured the interaction of its 82Ω output impedance with very sensitive low impedance phones: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...utorial-in-post-2.800208/page-8#post-13019304.

zs5 could have 8Ω or even lower (this would be very low) at 1kHz. and that's why i'd like to measure their impedance curve, and test with different sources to locate the possible causes of tonal alterations, and of distortion.


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> that card is not intended to drive low impedance phones


Oh for sure, it's just the most extreme example of distortion when using the ZS5 that I have on hand.   And they're pretty common on-board solutions.

On another front I dug out an ancient LG Optimus S that has no distortion when used with the ZS5 but suffers from current limited compression I think?  Volume levels get comically unstable in quiet vs busy track sections (with busy sections being highly compressed).


On my headphone out the Realtek still packs enough power to just use an Ear Buddy to rectify the output, for example, while the LG Optimus S needs an actual amp to not just sound hilariously compressed.


----------



## Podster

I've been in these things all weekend, KZ has come a long way since my ED9's! For $44 this is an exceptional iem. I have a feeling they are going to sell like hot cakes on AliEx during the up and coming 11/11 sales!


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> I've been in these things all weekend, KZ has come a long way since my ED9's! For $44 this is an exceptional iem. I have a feeling they are going to sell like hot cakes on AliEx during the up and coming 11/11 sales!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wiljen said:


> I think the crossover in multi-driver designs almost always represents a weak point and thus my request for a single BA.  The Crossovers introduce problems with coherency.  It is nearly impossible to keep the full range of sound at exactly the same level when mating multiple drivers and those overlapped regions suffer as a result since there isn't a hard cut-off at say 500hz below which the dynamic works and above which the BA takes over.  The fact that the dynamic rolls off up to 850Hz or so and the BA extends down to 400 Hz means that overlapped range from 400-850 is subject to some really odd effects.   That is what the R&D money you pay for a TOTL IEM goes for.   Making those transitions between one driver and the next smooth and inaudible is a true art form.   Granted single drivers have an inherent weakness in that one end or the other tends to be rolled off or lacks extension so the real trick on a single driver design is finding a driver with extension down to the low teens and up to the mid 20s before they are subject to severe roll-off.   Most now opt for a driver with good bass extension and sacrifice some treble extension as that is generally more acceptable to the masses.   To me, that produces a fairly lifeless signature as they lose all sparkle and cymbals and snare hits lack realism.



A single BA would be ridiculously lacking. I've heard single DDs that sounded amazing, multi-BA's that sounded amazing, and hybrids that sounded amazing, but I have never heard a good single BA. 

Also you're actually 100% incorrect about this making an issue with coherency. Like, completely wrong. Crossovers make it easier to keep the levels even because you're not trying to tune a single driver, you can have a few over a range and basically ratchet each one up or down to level things out. More than that, you're completely off on the overlap region. 

There's a reason, a damn good reason, why every single TOTL IEM is either multi-driver or single-DD, and nearly all are going for multi drivers. It's not because no one has had the epiphany you did of how amazing one BA is. It's the same reason home and car audio setups use multiple drivers across the spectrum. Frankly, headphones are the only area that don't, and that's largely because it would be nearly impossible to accomplish thanks to the positioning of everything.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Podster said:


> I've been in these things all weekend, KZ has come a long way since my ED9's! For $44 this is an exceptional iem. I have a feeling they are going to sell like hot cakes on AliEx during the up and coming 11/11 sales!


Wait what? I'm new to Chi Fi what is 11/11?


----------



## vector84

Fox2twenty said:


> Wait what? I'm new to Chi Fi what is 11/11?


The biggest online shopping day in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singles'_Day


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> The biggest online shopping day in the world.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singles'_Day


Thank you


----------



## Holypal

Fox2twenty said:


> Wait what? I'm new to Chi Fi what is 11/11?



It's the Chinese equivalent of Black Friday sales.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> The biggest online shopping day in the world.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singles'_Day


Holy crap that's a lot of retail sales.


----------



## groucho69

Fox2twenty said:


> Holy **** that's a lot of retail sales.



Save your sheckles


----------



## Wiljen

SomeGuyDude said:


> A single BA would be ridiculously lacking. I've heard single DDs that sounded amazing, multi-BA's that sounded amazing, and hybrids that sounded amazing, but I have never heard a good single BA.
> 
> Also you're actually 100% incorrect about this making an issue with coherency. Like, completely wrong. Crossovers make it easier to keep the levels even because you're not trying to tune a single driver, you can have a few over a range and basically ratchet each one up or down to level things out. More than that, you're completely off on the overlap region.
> 
> There's a reason, a damn good reason, why every single TOTL IEM is either multi-driver or single-DD, and nearly all are going for multi drivers. It's not because no one has had the epiphany you did of how amazing one BA is. It's the same reason home and car audio setups use multiple drivers across the spectrum. Frankly, headphones are the only area that don't, and that's largely because it would be nearly impossible to accomplish thanks to the positioning of everything.



I'll respectfully disagree.  Crossovers make it possible to mate levels that  would not be possible without using a crossover and regulate impedance but that doesn't mean they are perfect or anywhere close to it.  All forms of crossovers come with trade-offs and it is no different in the in-ear world than when dealing with loudspeakers.   You can find literally volumes written on the merits and faults of each order of crossover and each design.   If a perfect one has been made, there is certainly no consensus as to which design it is.

I do agree that there are plenty of good single dynamic driver headphones out there and I think that we have already seen what KZ can do with a single DD as they have made several models that fit this description.   I don't believe that a single BA will be the penultimate earphone, but I would like to see what KZ can do with a single BA as it is not impossible to make a single BA that sounds good.  I'd suggest you try the Klipsch X10 or the Etymotics ER4P/S.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've tried several Etys. Never liked any of them. I'm not going to gamble on the one good single BA out there when the market is absolutely jam packed with other styles that sound orders of magnitude better.


----------



## Fox2twenty

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've tried several Etys. Never liked any of them. I'm not going to gamble on the one good single BA out there when the market is absolutely jam packed with other styles that sound orders of magnitude better.


Yeah.. If they do a single it should be a 15mm dynamic. With some kind of special material.


----------



## Wiljen

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've tried several Etys. Never liked any of them. I'm not going to gamble on the one good single BA out there when the market is absolutely jam packed with other styles that sound orders of magnitude better.



I'll again suggest that I can respect your opinion without agreeing with it.  Your statement was very subjective in suggesting there are no good single ba units and I think that is much more a matter of opinion than a statement of fact.   I find the X10 to be listenable if not as full as some others and I think Etymotic was one of the pioneers  in the development of BA earphones and a lot of what we have today is partially because of the ground work they laid.   I'm reasonably sure I am not the only Etymotics fan on the site and many others might argue the point that they are no good.


----------



## atmfrank (Oct 9, 2017)

Oh Boy. Over 1500 posts for the same topic? FWIW, I just want to contribute my extremely wonderful experience with the QKZ KD2 which I think is the same as the DM8. Fantastic sound from this inexpensive dual-driver design. Well defined and tight bass, rich mid-range and very balanced highs pleasing the ears of an older audiophile listener. The experience so far is nothing but addictive. Driving them with my HTC 10 (24/96 DAC) while commuting to work, at home with a DF RED 1.0 or SMSL iDEA. Very pleasing, detailed and just good sounding. They need to be well burnt-in for at least 20 hours before sounding sweet. My other gear is HD600 and RS2e...so you know where I am coming from.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wiljen said:


> I'll again suggest that I can respect your opinion without agreeing with it.  Your statement was very subjective in suggesting there are no good single ba units and I think that is much more a matter of opinion than a statement of fact.   I find the X10 to be listenable if not as full as some others and I think Etymotic was one of the pioneers  in the development of BA earphones and a lot of what we have today is partially because of the ground work they laid.   I'm reasonably sure I am not the only Etymotics fan on the site and many others might argue the point that they are no good.



Klipsch makes good products, but they're not exactly taking over the industry. As for Ety, just being a pioneer doesn't mean the products they make now have kept up with advancements. It means that they took the first strides and did awesome work. Atari was a pioneer in home video game consoles but I think we can all agree that the Jaguar was a pile of crap. 

So okay, there are literally _two_ single-BA examples you can find, and both have fans, but neither are tearing up their price brackets. If anything, that proves my point. There's a reason that Noble, JH, 1964, Mee, 1More, Campfire, and all the others either go with a single DD or a multi-driver setup of some type. You were speaking as if multi-drivers were flawed and a single BA would alleviate that issue, but sorta didn't explain why (nearly) nobody does that. As if they just couldn't figure it out.

A lot of stuff is only done rarely. Final Audio is, as far as I know, the only company to do a BA/DD hybrid in a full-sized headphone. It sounded awesome to me, but there's kind of a reason it's a rarity. I'm saying this because if KZ is going to really go out and try something else, I would vastly prefer they go for either a single DD and try and clone, say, the Campfire Vega instead of trying to clone an X10.


----------



## Fahim Foysal (Oct 9, 2017)

@Wiljen @SomeGuyDude  My understanding is that a single BA driver limits the capability of OEMs to tune the iems properly. It would produce a even frequency response which we don't want from iems since we are bypassing the ear canal. It would be physically impossible to boost certain parts of the frequency (by a good amount) without introducing distortion.


----------



## Wiljen

I think we can drop the conversation as it is obvious to me we are not going to agree.  I understand your position and I still think I'd like to see what can be done with a single BA, if for no other reason than if they can do it well, it proves they have the tools to do about anything well as we have already seen a pretty good start in the single dynamic and multi-driver designs.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Wiljen said:


> I think we can drop the conversation as it is obvious to me we are not going to agree.  I understand your position and I still think I'd like to see what can be done with a single BA, if for no other reason than if they can do it well, it proves they have the tools to do about anything well as we have already seen a pretty good start in the single dynamic and multi-driver designs.


This might convince you.


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> @Wiljen @SomeGuyDude  My understanding is that a single BA driver limits the capability of OEMs to tune the iems properly. It would produce a even frequency response which we don't want from iems since we are bypassing the ear canal. It would be physically impossible to boost certain parts of the frequency without introducing distortion.


Knowles' line of full range single BAs might surprise you.
 

I think the issue is more that it's both difficult to produce full range BAs with good response across the entire spectrum, and difficult to tune BAs in general due to their physical size.


----------



## fullmoon280

So im looking for some new iems and the last time i bought a kz item was a few years ago and i was wondering what the current ranking for kz iems are nowadays?


----------



## kokakolia

fullmoon280 said:


> So im looking for some new iems and the last time i bought a kz item was a few years ago and i was wondering what the current ranking for kz iems are nowadays?


I'm curious too! And very impatient. I ordered the ZSE weeks ago. It was dirt cheap at around ~$6 on sale. That's the price of a pint of beer. It's so ridiculous, considering that the reviews are overwhelmingly positive.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

From what I've noticed, the ranking is pretty individual, some seem to love the ZSE most, others the 3, 5 v1, 5 v2, the 6. 

I've only heard the ZS5 v1 and the ZS6 but I am actually annoyed to admit that I'm spending more time with them now than my Pinnacle P1 or 1More Quad.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 11, 2017)

Impedance (and phase) curves of ZS5 v1 and ZS6.

Note that ZS5 v1 impedance at 1kHz is *4.8Ω*! (ZS6 is ~14.5Ω).

ZS5 & ZS6:



ZS5:


ZS6:


----------



## Fahim Foysal

vector84 said:


> Knowles' line of full range single BAs might surprise you.
> 
> 
> I think the issue is more that it's both difficult to produce full range BAs with good response across the entire spectrum, and difficult to tune BAs in general due to their physical size.


The red curve looks nice. Why is the red one split into two curves at 8khz


----------



## vector84

Fahim Foysal said:


> The red curve looks nice. Why is the red one split into two curves at 8khz


I think one is supposed to be dotted for the 0.4cc eartip versus raw coupler... fun with manufacturer graphs!


----------



## fullmoon280

Just making sure before i purchase them but these cables work with the zst colorful correct? 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074H8Y76X/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1


----------



## Selenium

fullmoon280 said:


> Just making sure before i purchase them but these cables work with the zst colorful correct?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074H8Y76X/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1



One of the pics literally shows them plugged into the ZST...


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> Impedance (and phase) curves of ZS5 v1 and ZS6.
> 
> Note that ZS5 v1 impedance at 1kHz is 4.8Ω! (ZS6 is ~14.5Ω).
> 
> ...


I wonder if the opposing phase shift directions have something to do with the widely variant soundstage comparisons  

And wow, that's some disturbingly low impedance...


----------



## Saoshyant

SomeGuyDude said:


> From what I've noticed, the ranking is pretty individual, some seem to love the ZSE most, others the 3, 5 v1, 5 v2, the 6.
> 
> I've only heard the ZS5 v1 and the ZS6 but I am actually annoyed to admit that I'm spending more time with them now than my Pinnacle P1 or 1More Quad.



Give it time, you're still in the honeymoon period


----------



## Holypal

hakuzen said:


> Impedance (and phase) curves of ZS5 v1 and ZS6.
> 
> Note that ZS5 v1 impedance at 1kHz is 4.8Ω! (ZS6 is ~14.5Ω).
> 
> ...




Does it mean the ZS6 crossover doesn't work beyond 5kHz?  The Curve is strange there.


----------



## sghound

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've tried several Etys. Never liked any of them. I'm not going to gamble on the one good single BA out there when the market is absolutely jam packed with other styles that sound orders of magnitude better.



hate them etys but love those full range x10s tho. my reference standard.


----------



## CoiL

SomeGuyDude said:


> I've only heard the *ZS5 v1* and the *ZS6* but I am actually annoyed to admit that I'm spending more time with them now than my *Pinnacle P1* or *1More Quad*.



Can You please share more in-depth comparison between them all, please? 

Btw, guys, too much offtopic on last pages. Came here to read about latest ZS6 impressions but instead been reading last 3 pages about 1BAvsDDvshybridvsmultiBA etc. 
....kinda wastes my time.


----------



## BurningSkies

Holypal said:


> Does it mean the ZS6 crossover doesn't work beyond 5kHz?  The Curve is strange there.



I wouldn't suspect that the waveform above 5K relates to a crossover working or not working. I'd say there's probably a crossover right below ~5K and the hi-frequency driver (or drivers, assuming they may be using 2 of the same) that take over at that point have that characteristic. It would be pretty strange for it to be a crossover that has a slope across a huge frequency range at the top of the unit's response.

Has anyone ascertained if this is a 3 way or 4 way system? Or in fact it could be a 2 way, with both of the low frequency drivers in parallel crossed over to the two high frequency BA's.


----------



## Wiljen

Fahim Foysal said:


> The red curve looks nice.



That is what I have been trying to say.  The fact that it is difficult to make a good Full range BA doesn't mean it is impossible and it would prove KZ manufacturing prowess in the BA world could compete with the big boys.   Yes, there are good single BA earphones, no there are not as many as other configurations because it is not an easy thing to do.  Shure, Klipsch, Etymotics, and Final Audio all have single BAs in their lineups and I'm pretty sure one of the Campfire models that the Zs6 is based on is a single BA as well.


----------



## BurningSkies

Wiljen said:


> That is what I have been trying to say.  The fact that it is difficult to make a good Full range BA doesn't mean it is impossible and it would prove KZ manufacturing prowess in the BA world could compete with the big boys.   Yes, there are good single BA earphones, no there are not as many as other configurations because it is not an easy thing to do.  Shure, Klipsch, Etymotics, and Final Audio all have single BAs in their lineups and I'm pretty sure one of the Campfire models that the Zs6 is based on is a single BA as well.



The Campfire Audio Andromeda that the ZS6 and SZ5 are 'based on' are five driver, including dual HF BA:

Dual High Frequency Balanced Armature Drivers + T.A.E.C.

Single Mid Frequency Balanced Armature Driver

Dual Low Frequency Balanced Armature Drivers


----------



## snip3r77

Wiljen said:


> That is what I have been trying to say.  The fact that it is difficult to make a good Full range BA doesn't mean it is impossible and it would prove KZ manufacturing prowess in the BA world could compete with the big boys.   Yes, there are good single BA earphones, no there are not as many as other configurations because it is not an easy thing to do.  Shure, Klipsch, Etymotics, and Final Audio all have single BAs in their lineups and I'm pretty sure one of the Campfire models that the Zs6 is based on is a single BA as well.



Maybe it’s limited by the quality of their house BA. As compared to the bigger boys


----------



## Podster

I have a different setup for my P-1's but use them as much as my ZS6 and ZST's


----------



## sghound

BurningSkies said:


> The Campfire Audio Andromeda that the ZS6 and SZ5 are 'based on' are five driver, including dual HF BA:
> 
> Dual High Frequency Balanced Armature Drivers + T.A.E.C.
> 
> ...



campfire orion

https://campfireaudio.com/shop/orion/


----------



## sghound

Wiljen said:


> I'm pretty sure one of the Campfire models that the Zs6 is based on is a single BA as well.



yep campfire orion


----------



## loomisjohnson

fullmoon280 said:


> So im looking for some new iems and the last time i bought a kz item was a few years ago and i was wondering what the current ranking for kz iems are nowadays?


everybody has their favorites, but the consensus picks are their new hybrids, the kz5 and the kz6, which are $25-45. among the cheaper models, many folks like the zst and ed9; the hds3, ate and ed2 also have their fans. I'd get 'em all.


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 10, 2017)

BurningSkies said:


> The Campfire Audio Andromeda that the ZS6 and SZ5 are 'based on' are five driver, including dual HF BA:



I was referencing the Orion which uses the exact same shell as the Andromeda and the Polaris.   The Orion as mentioned above is the single BA driver in campfire's line.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Saoshyant said:


> Give it time, you're still in the honeymoon period



I've been dancing around the headphone scene too long to do honeymoon periods, my friend. And since it's the cheapest thing I got, I don't think that really applies here.


----------



## YellowFlash

Hey guys!

Just ordered a Rock Zircon, seems really great for the price. Is there any alternative to the Zircon in the KZ lineup?
I want something with *really good bass* (not over the top earblasting, just good solid punches), decent mid, and solid high, for max 25$.
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Superluc

Probably ES3. Out of KZs, you can try the Memt X5.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

YellowFlash said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Just ordered a Rock Zircon, seems really great for the price. Is there any alternative to the Zircon in the KZ lineup?
> I want something with *really good bass* (not over the top earblasting, just good solid punches), decent mid, and solid high, for max 25$.
> Thanks in advance!



ZS5 or ZS3 should be right up your alley.


----------



## Ynot1 (Oct 10, 2017)

YellowFlash said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Just ordered a Rock Zircon, seems really great for the price. Is there any alternative to the Zircon in the KZ lineup?
> I want something with *really good bass* (not over the top earblasting, just good solid punches), decent mid, and solid high, for max 25$.
> Thanks in advance!



You should definitely consider getting recomendations from headfi member who owns zs6, zs5 v1, zs3, es3, zse, and r3.
That way you can be thorough. I only have es3 and still waiting on zse, but es3 is real good.


----------



## Wiljen

Think the Zs3 or Zst should be worth a look.   Preference in my case leaning a bit toward the Zs3 but the Zst on sale for <$20 is a good possible as well.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

BTW anyone know how the damn remote works on these things? The manual doesn't explain jack crap. It's only got one button but supposedly it can do play/pause as well as previous/next track?


----------



## HiFiChris

SomeGuyDude said:


> BTW anyone know how the damn remote works on these things? The manual doesn't explain jack ****. It's only got one button but supposedly it can do play/pause as well as previous/next track?



Works perfectly with my Apple iPod Nano 7G - 1 click = play/pause, two fast clicks = next, three fast clicks = previous. Click + hold should activate Siri/Google voice assist and a short click should also serve as picking up and hanging up phone calls.


----------



## HiFiChris

I really love how tiny, clean and white the labelling is, however imo they could have paid more attention to the spelling. At least it doesn't additionally say "silicon [sic] tips" on the shells (but well, it probably does in the manual - edit: nope, says "silicone case" in the manual).


----------



## Fox2twenty

Just installed New Bee foams and KZ BT cable on my ES3s... Only took 5 years on headfi to start tip rolling


----------



## Fox2twenty

Fox2twenty said:


> Just installed New Bee foams and KZ BT cable on my ES3s... Only took 5 years on headfi to start tip rolling


BTW, I have zs5 and ES3 - ES3 is my recommendation if you're asking about bass.


----------



## groucho69

HiFiChris said:


> I really love how tiny, clean and white the labelling is, however imo they could have paid more attention to the spelling. At least it doesn't additionally say "silicon [sic] tips" on the shells (but well, it probably does in the manual - edit: nope, says "silicone case" in the manual).



That's just sili.


----------



## Podster

HiFiChris said:


> I really love how tiny, clean and white the labelling is, however imo they could have paid more attention to the spelling. At least it doesn't additionally say "silicon [sic] tips" on the shells (but well, it probably does in the manual - edit: nope, says "silicone case" in the manual).



Dang Chris, you always make me want to stop posting any of my pics! Excellent shot as usual

Since I'm in this thread let's post a little KZ Oldskool DT5's


----------



## ldo77

I'm very impressed by the zs5, especialy with the symbio ear tips


----------



## Fox2twenty

ldo77 said:


> I'm very impressed by the zs5, especialy with the symbio ear tips


Awesome, can you say what the difference is with Symbios compared to foam? {I've never used symbio}


----------



## Wiljen

With no crossover used and an extremely low impedance, what is the risk posed to equipment by long term use of the Zs5?  I know when working with loudspeakers, a lot of care is put into keeping the overall impedance between 4 and 16 Ohms due to the problems created in the amplifier if impedance is dropped into the 1 to 2 Ohm range.   (Before you blast me, I know that impedance varies and is not a set value but it seems that the Zs5 is much lower than its advertised value of 16 Ohm most of the time.)


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> With no crossover used and an extremely low impedance, what is the risk posed to equipment by long term use of the Zs5?  I know when working with loudspeakers, a lot of care is put into keeping the overall impedance between 4 and 16 Ohms due to the problems created in the amplifier if impedance is dropped into the 1 to 2 Ohm range.   (Before you blast me, I know that impedance varies and is not a set value but it seems that the Zs5 is much lower than its advertised value of 16 Ohm most of the time.)


Idk, but I think it's kinda cool that the ZS5 doesn't have a crossover.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 10, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> With no crossover used and an extremely low impedance, what is the risk posed to equipment by long term use of the Zs5?  I know when working with loudspeakers, a lot of care is put into keeping the overall impedance between 4 and 16 Ohms due to the problems created in the amplifier if impedance is dropped into the 1 to 2 Ohm range.   (Before you blast me, I know that impedance varies and is not a set value but it seems that the Zs5 is much lower than its advertised value of 16 Ohm most of the time.)


Given the power levels involved, I think the risk is mostly to sound quality and I don't think there's much risk of long term damage unless you were to leave them playing at instant hearing damage levels for long periods of time.  If you did though, then the risk could be quite real (would probably overheat stuff)?  Or something like that.

Or at least that's my amateur hour take on it.


----------



## Wiljen

vector84 said:


> Given the power levels involved, I think the risk is mostly to sound quality and I don't think there's much risk of long term damage unless you were to leave them playing at instant hearing damage levels for long periods of time.  If you did though, then the risk could be quite real (would probably overheat stuff)?  Or something like that.
> 
> Or at least that's my amateur hour take on it.



that was my suspicion too but sometimes with shrinking the voltages and currents involved, the tolerances decrease right along with them.   I wasnt sure if miniature components were likely to be more or less susceptible than their larger counterparts.


----------



## Superluc

Fox2twenty said:


> what the difference is with Symbios compared to foam?


They are silicon tips filled with foam, so they seal a lot better than normal silicon but don't tame the highs as foam did. Could be an upgrade for silicon tip users, but not the ideal choice on IEMs with harsher highs.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Superluc said:


> They are silicon tips filled with foam, so they seal a lot better than normal silicon but don't tame the highs as foam did. Could be an upgrade for silicon tip users, but not the ideal choice on IEMs with harsher highs.



Big reason I wouldn't use them on the ZS6.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Superluc said:


> They are silicon tips filled with foam, so they seal a lot better than normal silicon but don't tame the highs as foam did. Could be an upgrade for silicon tip users, but not the ideal choice on IEMs with harsher highs.


Nice answer. Thank you.


----------



## snip3r77

Fox2twenty said:


> BTW, I have zs5 and ES3 - ES3 is my recommendation if you're asking about bass.


Do you happen to have have zse also?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have a ZSE and it is not the bassiest KZ, has just the right amount as I find the sound very pleasant indeed


----------



## snip3r77

HungryPanda said:


> I have a ZSE and it is not the bassiest KZ, has just the right amount as I find the sound very pleasant indeed


Hence 1 step down from zs5 is zse?


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 10, 2017)

like a junior ZS5 with a smaller shell, very comfortable. I'm listening to Stevie Nicks with them in and enjoying her very much


----------



## Wiljen

I would have thought one step down from the 5 would be the Zst.  for me the ZSE is more balanced while the T and 5 are both V shaped.


----------



## kokakolia

HungryPanda said:


> I have a ZSE and it is not the bassiest KZ, has just the right amount as I find the sound very pleasant indeed


AAAahhhhhhhh! I am so impatient now. I got them on sale for 6.50$ on Gearbest and they just shipped 2 days ago. The more I read about the ZSE, the more I want them. I am certain that they'll give the ZS5/ZS6 a run for their money! 6.50$ Wow! Are they making any money off of them!? Seriously...

It just sucks that shipping takes forever. In retrospect, I would have easily paid 25$ to get them shipped way sooner. Not having earbuds sucks...


----------



## maxxevv

I have both the ZS5 v2 as well as the ZSE. 

As Panda rightly points out, the ZSE is somewhat like a stripped down ZS5. 

It has a little less bass, a smaller soundstage and less instrument separation comparatively.  But its really a great sounding, slightly warm signatured earphone, especially if you consider the price.  Other than the cables being badly microphobic, there really isn't much to complain about them for the price.  

They are excellent for energetic tracks that are not too complicated in instrumentation. Which means most pop genres, outside of EDM and related stuff. They sound good on many of the vocals. 
But they really are not that great for stuff that emphasise a lot on the treble aspect such as many Classical pieces do.  They tend to sound 'congested' when a lot of instruments / sounds are played back concurrently.  

As Vidal also mentioned, they are somewhat a 'low-fi' champion in that they make low resolution recordings/ files sound great.  In fact, in my experience they are very, very good for stuff that you get over the radio !   

Just don't walk around while listening to them though ... the microphonics will irritate the hell out of you.


----------



## Fox2twenty

snip3r77 said:


> Do you happen to have have zse also?


Unfortunately not. I jumped into it this summer with zs5 and ES3.


----------



## jmwreck

Fox2twenty said:


> Unfortunately not. I jumped into it this summer with zs5 and ES3.



What can you say about the ES3 over ZS5 or ZST if you have tried one?


----------



## -sandro-

maxxevv said:


> I have both the ZS5 v2 as well as the ZSE.
> 
> As Panda rightly points out, the ZSE is somewhat like a stripped down ZS5.
> 
> ...




Not sure if this is a good or bad thing


----------



## maxxevv

If you already have the ZS5, you're not missing anything.


----------



## ru9

I am happy with the ZS5. How do we explain the good sounding result even without a crossover?  What  other multi-driver iems do not have crossover?


----------



## vector84

ru9 said:


> How do we explain the good sounding result even without a crossover?


"precision driver placement" - so... maths that make no sense to normal people not versed in acoustic voodoo? or something like that.


ru9 said:


> What  other multi-driver iems do not have crossover?


The rest of KZ's multi-driver lineup besides the ZS6 and rev1 ZS1? Maybe other stuff in the budget segment that gets less scrutiny?


----------



## ldo77

Fox2twenty said:


> Awesome, can you say what the difference is with Symbios compared to foam? {I've never used symbio}


With the Symbios, I feel a better control in bass attack and less (almost not) sibilance.
With these I realy appreciate the bass and the medium seems softer 
... brain dream or reality !?


----------



## BrunoC

maxxevv said:


> If you already have the ZS5, you're not missing anything.



Exactly. 
In my opinion, the ZSE is overrated.
For 9€ I prefer the ED9 to the ZSE, which sounds a bit boomy and congested to me. 

The ZS5 is much much better than the ZSE. Clarity, soundstage, bass quality vastly superior on the ZS5. Different leagues.


----------



## maxxevv

Its entirely dependent on perspectives. The ZS5 doesn't always sound good when you're listening to not so great media like the radio. 
Its a lot likee watching a 80s TV series on a 4K TV set now versus a 15yr old 55" projector TV.

Listening to the radio playback or some MP3s you may have ripped 10-15 years on 96kbs / 128kbs on the ZS5 will show up all their flaws. Not very pleasant at all. 

The ZSE is like that old projector TV playing back that old TV series. Everything still sounds smooth and clear. 

ZSE is actually very good if you use it to its strengths.


----------



## eaglesgift

maxxevv said:


> Its entirely dependent on perspectives. The ZS5 doesn't always sound good when you're listening to not so great media like the radio.
> Its a lot likee watching a 80s TV series on a 4K TV set now versus a 15yr old 55" projector TV.
> 
> Listening to the radio playback or some MP3s you may have ripped 10-15 years on 96kbs / 128kbs on the ZS5 will show up all their flaws. Not very pleasant at all.
> ...


So would you say the ZSE would be a good choice for listening to early Motorhead albums that were perhaps poorly recorded, produced and mastered?


----------



## Slater

ru9 said:


> What  other multi-driver iems do not have crossover?



Most.


----------



## maxxevv

Motorhead is not on my listen list, can't help with that. But the Beatles do sound better on the ZSE than other more technically capable earphones like the Urbanfun Hifi and the CI880.  Haven't tried on the ZS5 yet.


----------



## eaglesgift

maxxevv said:


> Motorhead is not on my listen list, can't help with that. But the Beatles do sound better on the ZSE than other more technically capable earphones like the Urbanfun Hifi and the CI880.  Haven't tried on the ZS5 yet.


I don't suppose they are on a lot of audio enthusiasts listen lists


----------



## Lorspeaker

Dammmm..the ZS6 sounds fantastic off my samsung fone/wav songs... crisp n clear with a weighty punch on bass notes.. no shrills nor bloats. 

Havent switch tips nor silvercable yet..nor try out my xduoo10dap. Gonna be a treat..trying to calm myself down. 

The best KZ todate....per my taste of cos.


----------



## AndrewPL

I've received my ZS6 today and I'm not very excited about the sound, the highs are overstated, unpleasant and piercing I have a headache after 10 min of listening to them


----------



## chinmie

Lorspeaker said:


> Dammmm..the ZS6 sounds fantastic off my samsung fone/wav songs... crisp n clear with a weighty punch on bass notes.. no shrills nor bloats.
> 
> Havent switch tips nor silvercable yet..nor try out my xduoo10dap. Gonna be a treat..trying to calm myself down.
> 
> The best KZ todate....per my taste of cos.





AndrewPL said:


> I've received my ZS6 today and I'm not very excited about the sound, the highs are overstated, unpleasant and piercing I have a headache after 10 min of listening to them



it seems the ZS6 is rather polarizing


----------



## Francisk

AndrewPL said:


> I've received my ZS6 today and I'm not very excited about the sound, the highs are overstated, unpleasant and piercing I have a headache after 10 min of listening to them


Switch the stock silicone tips to the Comply T400 foam tips and you'll notice that the high frequency peaks nicely tamed.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 11, 2017)

AndrewPL said:


> I've received my ZS6 today and I'm not very excited about the sound, the highs are overstated, unpleasant and piercing I have a headache after 10 min of listening to them


That cable is not the standard, It may be the cause of your issue.


----------



## Lorspeaker

... i bought the silvercable from gearbest.. hope it wont tip it off the treble edge 
gonna take this slow...enjoy my youtubes on my fone with the zs6...deliciousss 
BeeGees..came back to life earlier...at the cafe. MJ joined the party too.


----------



## AndrewPL

mrmoto050 said:


> That cable is not the standard, It may be the cause of your issue.



You are right, that's not standard cable that was in the box. I was hoping that this one would be better than stock cable but something is wrong with it. I"ve been testing 3 different cables and this orange is the worst.
I'm getting strange effect using this cable , the sound is like when you don't fully insert the jack. Switched to silver cable and now I can hear big improvement.


----------



## Podster (Oct 11, 2017)

I don't know about that cable @AndrewPL but with this one I'm highly pleased however I do like my Mids and Highs more than many KZ enthusiast Then again I love most of my iem's and understand each of their qualities and signatures, I've found after 5-10 minutes I adjust to whichever ones I'm driving but understand many just want that one preference! I know I'd spend a little time changing out tips and maybe cables because the ZS6 can sound pretty sweet if addressed right. As always ones MMV Almost forgot, great photo


----------



## Fahim Foysal

AndrewPL said:


> You are right, that's not standard cable that was in the box. I was hoping that this one would be better than stock cable but something is wrong with it. I"ve been testing 3 different cables and this orange is the worst.
> I'm getting strange effect using this cable , the sound is like when you don't fully insert the jack. Switched to silver cable and now I can hear big improvement.


would the improvement be enough to change your opinion of the zs6 from 'not so good' to 'great' iem?


----------



## AndrewPL

Fahim Foysal said:


> would the improvement be enough to change your opinion of the zs6 from 'not so good' to 'great' iem?


Yes, after changing the cable they sound much better. I was too fast with my opinion, for that price they sound great , as @Francisk suggested I will switch the tips to Comply foams , still too much treble to my ears in ZS6


----------



## AndrewPL

Podster said:


> I don't know about that cable @AndrewPL but with this one I'm highly pleased however I do like my Mids and Highs more than many KZ enthusiast Then again I love most of my iem's and understand each of their qualities and signatures, I've found after 5-10 minutes I adjust to whichever ones I'm driving but understand many just want that one preference! I know I'd spend a little time changing out tips and maybe cables because the ZS6 can sound pretty sweet if addressed right. As always ones MMV Almost forgot, great photo


The cable on my pic is probably faulty that's why my opinion was not enthusiastic. I switched to silver(same as yours) and I can say I like the sound of ZS6, no complains about the bass and Mids ,only this highs could be tamed a little bit in my opinion


----------



## Podster

AndrewPL said:


> The cable on my pic is probably faulty that's why my opinion was not enthusiastic. I switched to silver(same as yours) and I can say I like the sound of ZS6, no complains about the bass and Mids ,only this highs could be tamed a little bit in my opinion



I'd keep working with tips and see if they tame a little and there is always the dreaded EQ Good luck


----------



## botte

Hello dears,

Actually owner (and very impressed) of a KZ ZST (non pro, the carbon one) which I like to be very bassy, I'd like a more neutral intra from KZ.

I'm hesitating between KZ ZST colorful (which is apparently very different from normal KZ ZST, less bassy better mids and high) and KZ ZS5, which one do you recommand ? Knowing that ZST colorful is cheaper, and I don't have to buy new BT/gold cable, it seems a better option to me, I think to understand they are quite equivalent (even if the look of ZS5 is much better).

also, what is better or different between KZ ZST carbon and ZS3 ?

Cheers


----------



## Drakis

botte said:


> Hello dears,
> 
> Actually owner (and very impressed) of a KZ ZST (non pro, the carbon one) which I like to be very bassy, I'd like a more neutral intra from KZ.
> 
> ...



I have both ZST colorful and ZS3, and i prefer the former. For me, ZS3 sounds a bit clouded. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## mrmoto050

AndrewPL said:


> The cable on my pic is probably faulty that's why my opinion was not enthusiastic. I switched to silver(same as yours) and I can say I like the sound of ZS6, no complains about the bass and Mids ,only this highs could be tamed a little bit in my opinion


I had same issue with OOB but switched to Comply's and everything balanced out. Still using standard cable also listening straight for last 4 days, sounding great. (IMHO)


----------



## Podster (Oct 11, 2017)

@botte I have both ZST's and have never been able to tell one from the other sound wise! I also have ZS5V1's in both Blue and Gray and once again no difference to me in SS but I will say since I now have the ZS6 it would be my recommendation as the ZST was my fave until the ZS6 came in but as always we all hear them a little differently. With that said not sure if I've helped you at all in your decision


----------



## Wiljen

Lorspeaker said:


> Dammmm..the ZS6 sounds fantastic off my samsung fone/wav songs... crisp n clear with a weighty punch on bass notes.. no shrills nor bloats.
> 
> Havent switch tips nor silvercable yet..nor try out my xduoo10dap. Gonna be a treat..trying to calm myself down.
> 
> The best KZ todate....per my taste of cos.



Wait til you try them with the X10 - it is a good pairing.


----------



## HiFiChris

AndrewPL said:


> [...] no complains about the bass and Mids ,only this highs could be tamed a little bit in my opinion



A 50 or 75 Ohm impedance adapter, or alternatively some EQ tweaks could help with that.


----------



## High on Ketamine

Hi, in following this thread for quite a while now and first of all thanx to you all for making me hyped and making my buying decisions easier. So meanwhile I have several iems from Kz and Im willing to share my impressions so here are the ones I have: ZS3, ES3, ZS5 and ZSE. I also had the Rock Zircon and several higher end iems and I have to say that Im quite impressed with the latest Kzs...


----------



## High on Ketamine

Oh btw I finally recieved my Zs5 today. Its the grey version without mic from gearbest and im happy its version 1


----------



## TimeSnow

So I got my Comply tips and put them on the ZS5s.

Umm... wow.

TOTALLY different experience.

Not I'm gonna put these on everything - big big big difference in feel, comfort, sound, isolation... just wow.

Thanks for the advice and help everyone!


----------



## High on Ketamine

TimeSnow said:


> So I got my Comply tips and put them on the ZS5s.
> 
> Umm... wow.
> 
> ...



Nice to hear. I also ordered some Complies


----------



## Lorspeaker

I m using the size L tips to get a good seal with the zs6 ..most iems i achieved that with M size...interesting.


----------



## TimeSnow

Put them on my ZSTs just there... much much better isolation, and of course that means I'm hearing details I was missing before... the same if true of the ZS5s.

Instant upgrade.

They aren't cheap though are they? I just bought the comfort ones though... hooked now!


----------



## Lorspeaker (Oct 11, 2017)

Bought the black foamtips from geatbest...inexpensive..dun know how durable these are.

Put on the L sized foamies...seal aint good..the sound spiked up.

Switched to the M size..woahhh...heaven came into my ears.. there's a fuĺlness of sound in depth...deep into the stage..without losing the clarity in the highs.

Think i m stuck with this Mfoamies for now...Ennio Morricone spinning his magic in my ears now...beautiful..

ZS6....Less than 50bucks...crazzzzzy.

Ps: the gearbest blackfoamies didnt fit tightly enough to the zs6stems..one got stuck in my ear as i pulled.


----------



## High on Ketamine

I just tested my new Zs5 with the silver upgrade cable and man what a difference. Its much more refined at the cost of some warmth and bass but its much more high end sounding. The stock cables seem to hold back the iems full potential.


----------



## TimeSnow

High on Ketamine said:


> I just tested my new Zs5 with the silver upgrade cable and man what a difference. Its much more refined at the cost of some warmth and bass but its much more high end sounding. The stock cables seem to hold back the iems full potential.


EXCELLENT.

Mine's arriving tomorrow.

Between that and the Comply tips I am psyched.











I also just ordered the LZ A4s though... I wonder what I'm in for!


----------



## High on Ketamine

Soundstage seems a bit smaller tho but the freqs are more flat


----------



## Podster

TimeSnow said:


> EXCELLENT.
> 
> Mine's arriving tomorrow.
> 
> ...



A real treat Congrats


----------



## TimeSnow

Podster said:


> A real treat Congrats


Thanks!! Really excited!



What cable is that? Very swish!


----------



## groucho69

TimeSnow said:


> Put them on my ZSTs just there... much much better isolation, and of course that means I'm hearing details I was missing before... the same if true of the ZS5s.
> 
> Instant upgrade.
> 
> They aren't cheap though are they? I just bought the comfort ones though... hooked now!



You can get cheap subs on AE


----------



## TimeSnow

groucho69 said:


> You can get cheap subs on AE


That's good info thanks!!


----------



## Selenium

I was so thinking about getting the A4 but I think I'll get the Fiio F9 instead. At least I know those will fit well and are isolating.


----------



## Rilke

Just bought some cheap foam tips from aliexpress for $1.50 ...
 Did somebody recieved their ZS6 from fasttech ? 
They have one have the cheapest price with **** ( $34) store on aliexpress ( but these are pre-orders ).


----------



## mrmoto050

Selenium said:


> I was so thinking about getting the A4 but I think I'll get the Fiio F9 instead. At least I know those will fit well and are isolating.


The F9's are extremely confortable and excellent sound.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm still patiently waiting on my ZS6's from gearbest....... anyday now I hope


----------



## Skullophile

Imho they should jam the DD from the Shockwave III and add 5 BA's to cover midbass to ultra high and they'd have something pretty special. Special in a non dumb way!


----------



## Selenium

HungryPanda said:


> I'm still patiently waiting on my ZS6's from gearbest....... anyday now I hope



Same here. Starting to not care anymore.


----------



## Fox2twenty

jmwreck said:


> What can you say about the ES3 over ZS5 or ZST if you have tried one?


ES3 is more comfortable /better form factor than ZS5. Also has more bass and less Soundstage.

ZS5 has better Treble and Soundstage.


----------



## Fox2twenty

TimeSnow said:


> So I got my Comply tips and put them on the ZS5s.
> 
> Umm... wow.
> 
> ...


I agree. Foams are the way to go with KZ IMHO.


----------



## High on Ketamine

jmwreck said:


> What can you say about the ES3 over ZS5 or ZST if you have tried one?



Both ES3 and ZS5 are very good iems. Both better than ZSE and ZS3. I find the ZS5 overal better balanced and larger sounding than the ES3. The ES3 has more bass but covers the mids too much. The treble is fine on both but a bit harsher on ES3. Overall the ZS5 is more comfortable and with some eq you can get similar bass. The ES3 is like a ZS3 with even more (and better) bass as well as better high extension and more detail, the ZS5 however is better overall, sounds less congested and would pick them over de ES3 most of the times.


----------



## Wiljen

Selenium said:


> I was so thinking about getting the A4 but I think I'll get the Fiio F9 instead. At least I know those will fit well and are isolating.


I've got the F9 and would recommend you listen to the Magaosi K3 before buying the F9.  Both are good, but to my ear the K3 is better.   I've been looking at the LZ A4 too and may have to pull the trigger on one eventually although hifiChris turned me on to the Brainwavz 200 so I may go that route.


----------



## High on Ketamine

kokakolia said:


> AAAahhhhhhhh! I am so impatient now. I got them on sale for 6.50$ on Gearbest and they just shipped 2 days ago. The more I read about the ZSE, the more I want them. I am certain that they'll give the ZS5/ZS6 a run for their money! 6.50$ Wow! Are they making any money off of them!? Seriously...
> 
> It just sucks that shipping takes forever. In retrospect, I would have easily paid 25$ to get them shipped way sooner. Not having earbuds sucks...



Hi


snip3r77 said:


> Do you happen to have have zse also?



I actually have the ZSE. Saddly I found them the least exciting earphones I tried from Kz. They sound quite muffled, muddied and somehow a little congested when it comes to certain songs. The also miss some sparkle in the highs. Comfortwise however its realy nice. But yeah its one of the cheapest Kz you can buy and unfortunately the price said it all this time...


----------



## Fox2twenty

ldo77 said:


> With the Symbios, I feel a better control in bass attack and less (almost not) sibilance.
> With these I realy appreciate the bass and the medium seems softer
> ... brain dream or reality !?





High on Ketamine said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> I actually have the ZSE. Saddly I found them the least exciting earphones I tried from Kz. They sound quite muffled, muddied and somehow a little congested when it comes to certain songs. The also miss some sparkle in the highs. Comfortwise however its realy nice. But yeah its one of the cheapest Kz you can buy and unfortunately the price said it all this time...


Glad I went ES3 and ZS5.


----------



## Wiljen

On a completely different note, I'm picking up this tomorrow and am thrilled to have found one - anybody have a clue what it is or who made it?  (just wondering if anyone else has the same other hobbies).


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> On a completely different note, I'm picking up this tomorrow and am thrilled to have found one - anybody have a clue what it is or who made it?  (just wondering if anyone else has the same other hobbies).


Looks like a high powered outdoor stove /burner.


----------



## High on Ketamine

Fox2twenty said:


> Glad I went ES3 and ZS5.



Yes, those are way ahead


----------



## Superluc

Wiljen said:


> (just wondering if anyone else has the same other hobbies).


No, i not build bombs, i'm not a terrorist


----------



## Wiljen

Fox2twenty said:


> Looks like a high powered outdoor stove /burner.



Close - real close actually


----------



## High on Ketamine

Nevermind about the cable differences tho. Yet with some music I actually prefer the black stock cable as its a more fun/dark listening exp compared to the silver cable. More rumbling bass and forgiving upper midrange/treble ...


----------



## vector84

High on Ketamine said:


> I actually have the ZSE. Saddly I found them the least exciting earphones I tried from Kz. They sound quite muffled, muddied and somehow a little congested when it comes to certain songs. The also miss some sparkle in the highs. Comfortwise however its realy nice. But yeah its one of the cheapest Kz you can buy and unfortunately the price said it all this time...


Personally I found that the red nozzle filter contributes quite a bit to a muddied and congested sound with the ZSE, though just removing it didn't give me great results either.  For a little while I was using them with a steel mesh screen covered in a thin layer of nylon and that combination struck me as a nicer result, but I honestly just haven't been inspired by them enough to keep tinkering with them.


----------



## hakuzen (Mar 6, 2018)

*ZS6: sources / impedance adapters, foam
*
Following @HiFiChris suggestions about using sources with higher output impedance, or impedance adapters (with any source) to tame the excessive treble peaks (without altering other frequencies), I've made some new measurements.

This effect is possible thanks to impedance features of ZS6 (ZS5 & ZS6 impedance curves).
If you try this with ZS5 v1, for example, the effect is just the opposite (harsher upper-mids and treble), due to their impedance characteristics.
Graph of ZS5 and ZS6 frequency response variation when using a higher impedance source (example: GhostAudio miniA1 amplifier, output impedance *15Ω*):






Now, the result frequency response of ZS6 when using an impedance adapter of *75Ω* (with "stetotip" -thick silicone- and with *foam* tips) compared to same source without adapter, and to ZS5 v1.
(Note: closed sub-bass vent hole in ZS6 measurements; this explains the sub-bass difference with ZS5).



The treble with  Z adapter + foam is very near to ZS5 v1 level.
Of course, you'll have to apply more voltage (raise volume pot) to get same sound level than before.


----------



## Selenium

Wiljen said:


> I've got the F9 and would recommend you listen to the Magaosi K3 before buying the F9.  Both are good, but to my ear the K3 is better.   I've been looking at the LZ A4 too and may have to pull the trigger on one eventually although hifiChris turned me on to the Brainwavz 200 so I may go that route.



Well I already have the DM5 which uses almost the same shell so I'd probably go with something different for that reason alone.


----------



## groucho69 (Oct 11, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> On a completely different note, I'm picking up this tomorrow and am thrilled to have found one - anybody have a clue what it is or who made it?  (just wondering if anyone else has the same other hobbies).



Still


----------



## dbaker1981

Selenium said:


> Well I already have the DM5 which uses almost the same shell so I'd probably go with something different for that reason alone.





How do like those? I’ve been looking at them for a while but haven’t heard much about them.


----------



## BubbleWrap86

My order from gearbest finally shipped today, green zs6 and upgraded cable.


hakuzen said:


> *ZS6: sources / impedance adapters, foam
> *
> Following @HiFiChris suggestions about using sources with higher output impedance, or impedance adapters (with any source) to tame the excessive treble peaks (without altering other frequencies), I've made some new measurements.
> 
> ...




What is this "Z adaptor" you refer to?


----------



## triplestarfish3D

Just bought the KZ ZST and am absolutely blown away by the price to performance. Considering the ZST also has detachable cables is just simply remarkable. Will be buying KZ earphones from now on.


----------



## snip3r77

Selenium said:


> Well I already have the DM5 which uses almost the same shell so I'd probably go with something different for that reason alone.


Better than zs56 right ?


----------



## hakuzen (Dec 28, 2018)

*ZS5 v1: sources
*
After seeing ZS5 impedance characteristics (ZS5 & ZS6 impedance curves, 4.8Ω@1kHz) and sensitiveness, we can understand some of the reasons of them being so source dependent.

1- Sources which use output coupling capacitors.
These will provoke a bass roll-off; the lower impedance phones we plug (and the lower capacity of the capacitors), the more pronounced roll-off.

2- Sources with high output impedance.
These will provoke harsher upper-mids and treble (and maybe slight less bass); the higher output impedance, the harsher.

3- Sources with low power limit for such a low impedance load (~5Ω): low current limit.
These will provoke noticeable distortion when trying to get your usual sound level (volume); the lower the limit, the sooner they'll sound distorted when raising the volume.
For example, Sansas or Benjie S5 DAPs distort and clip sound soon with such lower loads.

Frequency response graph of ZS5 when using a coupling caps (470uF) source (Zishan DSD) -bass roll-off-, a "high" output impedance source (GhostAudio miniA1 amplifier, 15Ω) -harsher highs-, and a source with no coupling caps and output impedance <1Ω:


----------



## Slater (Oct 11, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> *ZS6: sources / impedance adapters, foam
> *
> Following @HiFiChris suggestions about using sources with higher output impedance, or impedance adapters (with any source) to tame the excessive treble peaks (without altering other frequencies), I've made some new measurements.
> 
> ...



Nice finding. Should be easy to open the ZS6 up and solder in a 75Ω resistor. Then, no adapter needed.

You could also do an adjustable pot, or an externally accessible "socket" for on the fly changes:


----------



## Superluc

hakuzen said:


> The treble with Z adapter + foam is very near to ZS5 v1 level.


Thanks for the tip


----------



## snip3r77 (Oct 11, 2017)

@hakuzen the original mvp

Did you use the same device to measure it like hifichris ?


----------



## Wiljen

Wiljen said:


> On a completely different note, I'm picking up this tomorrow and am thrilled to have found one - anybody have a clue what it is or who made it?  (just wondering if anyone else has the same other hobbies).



WW II Surgical Sterilizer made by Coleman.   The thing is 10,000 BTU per burner so 40,000 total.


----------



## hakuzen

BubbleWrap86 said:


> My order from gearbest finally shipped today, green zs6 and upgraded cable.
> What is this "Z adaptor" you refer to?


impedance 3.5mm adapter, like:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DUN...0-200-ohm-For-Headphone-HiFi/32832583027.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-Imped...-for-HiFi-Audio-Player-Earphone-/272428465695
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-Imped...r-Jack-Plug-Conductor-30-80-175-/192257679261
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-20ohm...r-Plug-for-HiFi-Player-Earphone-/381662639828
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUNU-3-5mm-...-Jack-Plug-Conductor-75-150-200-/201997595004
https://penonaudio.com/index.php?route=journal2/quickview&pid=512


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 11, 2017)

I'd stick with the ifi match - designed specifically for this purpose and warrantied not to hurt your gear.  Admittedly, it is more expensive than most.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> WW II Surgical Sterilizer made by Coleman.   The thing is 10,000 BTU per burner so 40,000 total.


40k btu. Nice.


----------



## kokakolia

High on Ketamine said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> I actually have the ZSE. Saddly I found them the least exciting earphones I tried from Kz. They sound quite muffled, muddied and somehow a little congested when it comes to certain songs. The also miss some sparkle in the highs. Comfortwise however its realy nice. But yeah its one of the cheapest Kz you can buy and unfortunately the price said it all this time...



That's your opinion. But, I just hate having boosted treble. The "sparkle in the highs" you're talking about is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to earbuds, especially the cheaper ones from Philips, Sony or Skullcandy. Speaking of which, the Philips SHE3590 has been hyped up to the heavens on head-fi. And they sound just like any other cheap earbud: recessed vocals, boosted shrill treble and to some degree boosted mid-bass. The second I put earphones like these, I immediately frown and throw them away.  I am looking for earphones that sound great with indie/rock/punk tunes that otherwise sound unbearable with bright headphones. Someone mentioned the Beatles, they understand me. I also like having a bit of warmth and some meat in the bass. The perfect earphone (IMHO) is the Marshall Mode. But I lost mine, and I can't afford buying $50 earphones every other month. The Kz ED7 are almost as good and dirt cheap. So I'm curious about the ZSE. 

In my opinion, it's really good that KZ is releasing laid-back and warm earphones. I am not in the market for yet another gutless "V-shaped" sounding earphone with murder treble. The ED9 is the worst example of this. But some people love it that way. If only they weren't the majority...Because reading reviews across the web, I notice that people are heavily biased towards a "V-shaped" sound profile at the expense of dark & warm sounding headphones which get less attention and fewer positive reviews.


----------



## Fox2twenty

kokakolia said:


> That's your opinion. But, I just hate having boosted treble. The "sparkle in the highs" you're talking about is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to earbuds, especially the cheaper ones from Philips, Sony or Skullcandy. Speaking of which, the Philips SHE3590 has been hyped up to the heavens on head-fi. And they sound just like any other cheap earbud: recessed vocals, boosted shrill treble and to some degree boosted mid-bass. The second I put earphones like these, I immediately frown and throw them away.  I am looking for earphones that sound great with indie/rock/punk tunes that otherwise sound unbearable with bright headphones. Someone mentioned the Beatles, they understand me. I also like having a bit of warmth and some meat in the bass. The perfect earphone (IMHO) is the Marshall Mode. But I lost mine, and I can't afford buying $50 earphones every other month. The Kz ED7 are almost as good and dirt cheap. So I'm curious about the ZSE.
> 
> In my opinion, it's really good that KZ is releasing laid-back and warm earphones. I am not in the market for yet another gutless "V-shaped" sounding earphone with murder treble. The ED9 is the worst example of this. But some people love it that way. If only they weren't the majority...Because reading reviews across the web, I notice that people are heavily biased towards a "V-shaped" sound profile at the expense of dark & warm sounding headphones which get less attention and fewer positive reviews.


Yeah Man... . I turn up the bass and treble in my old Yukon as well. Sorry you don't like the ole v shape sound.


----------



## hakuzen

snip3r77 said:


> @hakuzen the original mvp
> 
> Did you use the same device to measure it like hifichris ?


yep, i use the same soundcard (ADC, E-MU 0404 USB) for every measure, and the same chi-pro rig for every iem measure. obviously, i've used different sources as output in my last graphs, but the same output gear for normal iem measures.
My rig evolution

but they are not like hificris': we use different rigs (different sources, adc, coupler, and mic).


----------



## Wiljen

snip3r77 said:


> Better than zs56 right ?



Not sure on the DM5 but if they are 75% of the K3 they are still well above the Zs5/6.   The K3 is amongst the best in ears I have had the chance to try in the under $250 range.  I've wanted to get ahold of the LZ A4 to compare against the K3 since I think they should be on a similar level.


----------



## hakuzen

btw, received the new grey silver plated ofc cable. it looks thicker coated; together with the coat color, you won't see oxidization 
quite soft and flexible.
DC resistance: ~69Ω (like usual silver plated copper cable, but higher than the 6 cores + metallic plugs or the usual silver plated cable for zst i got from ali time ago)


----------



## Superluc

hakuzen said:


> btw, received the new grey silver plated ofc cable. it looks thicker coated; together with the coat color, you won't see oxidization
> quite soft and flexible.
> DC resistance: ~69Ω (like usual silver plated copper cable, but higher than the 6 cores + metallic plugs or the usual silver plated cable for zst i got from ali time ago)


This one ? I also receive it myself, have you try it on the ZS6 ? I still have a lot to wait for mine pair...


----------



## vector84

Wiljen said:


> I'd stick with the ifi match - designed specifically for this purpose and warrantied not to hurt your gear.  Admittedly, it is more expensive than most.


The IEMatch output impedance is 1.0 (ultra) or 2.5 (high) - the whole point of it is a non-coloring attenuator.
(and the Ear Buddy is ~1.5)

The whole point of what they're talking about is to add ~75 ohms of serial resistance - a very coloring attenuation


----------



## hakuzen

Superluc said:


> This one ? I also receive it myself, have you try it on the ZS6 ? I still have a lot to wait for mine pair...


yep, that one. i've not tried it yet


----------



## Wiljen

vector84 said:


> The IEMatch output impedance is 1.0 (ultra) or 2.5 (high) - the whole point of it is a non-coloring attenuator.
> (and the Ear Buddy is ~1.5)
> 
> The whole point of what they're talking about is to add ~75 ohms of serial resistance - a very coloring attenuation



good point, I stand corrected.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 11, 2017)

Though the IEMatch and Ear Buddy ought to be pretty solid choices for pairing with a ZS5?

I'm kinda curious just how much they do color the ZS5 though - probably more than most things given the absurdly low 5 ohms impedance but probably still not a huge absolute shift?

And I have nothing to prove this, but I'm rather inclined to think that outputting into 16 ohms has to be easier on the source than 5... 
It at least gets a lot of sources out of the extremely bad zone with regards to low voltage/impedance current/power limitations.


Technically the ZS5 doesn't meet iFi's minimum requirements though... so excessively high volumes could potentially be a risk to the dongle?  Though I haven't felt my Ear Buddy getting warm at all, so I'm not too worried so far at least.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

eaglesgift said:


> I don't suppose they are on a lot of audio enthusiasts listen lists



You should see my playlists.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 12, 2017)

Just got my ZS6, although something is bothering me. I'm hearing a low hissing sound. Tried changing between the regular and the SPC cable, and I'm still hearing that hiss on both cables. Is this normal, or did I received a defective unit? Is the problem coming from the ZS6 itself, or from the source I'm using?


----------



## maxxevv

Check that your cables have been attached correctly. That sounds like what people have experienced with wrong polarity.

A PSA from @Slater: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


----------



## SomeTechNoob

mono-type said:


> Is the problem coming from the ZS6 itself, or from the source I'm using?



Source issue.  Source's noise floor is high enough to be heard with efficient IEMs.


----------



## trumpethead

Selenium said:


> Same here. Starting to not care anymore.



Gearbest is staying to become unreliable..they do not respond to customer messages sent via Facebook messenger which is the way they recommend to contact got customer service..Think I'm gonna stick with Ali and Amazon for future purchases..


----------



## mono-type (Oct 12, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> Check that your cables have been attached correctly. That sounds like what people have experienced with wrong polarity.
> 
> A PSA from @Slater:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067



I already have the cables attached properly. In fact, I already read Slater's guide way way back, around the time before my first KZ IEM (a ZS3) arrived, which is 4 months ago. Still hearing that constant hissing sound even with the cables attached correctly, though.



SomeTechNoob said:


> Source issue.  Source's noise floor is high enough to be heard with efficient IEMs.


I'm thinking the same thing, too. Although I still don't want to jump to conclusions.


----------



## HiFiChris

mono-type said:


> Just got my ZS6, although something is bothering me. I'm hearing a low hissing sound. Tried changing between the regular and the SPC cable, and I'm still hearing that hiss on both cables. Is this normal, or did I received a defective unit? Is the problem coming from the ZS6 itself, or from the source I'm using?



Just as @SomeTechNoob said - it's the source's hissing that is made audible by the ZS6. If it bothers you, you could get the iFi IEMatch or that new low-cost-iEMatch alternative they just released (don't recall what it is called - I think "EarBuddy"). Or a normal impedance adapter that would also tame the treble peak (if you don't want it tamed, the iFi products would be about the only alternative).


----------



## mono-type

HiFiChris said:


> Just as @SomeTechNoob said - it's the source's hissing that is made audible by the ZS6. If it bothers you, you could get the iFi IEMatch or that new low-cost-iEMatch alternative they just released (don't recall what it is called - I think "EarBuddy"). Or a normal impedance adapter that would also tame the treble peak (if you don't want it tamed, the iFi products would be about the only alternative).


So basically, this is just a normal occurrence for the ZS6?


----------



## HiFiChris

mono-type said:


> So basically, this is just a normal occurrence for the ZS6?



Yup. The in-ear, since it is passive, does not hiss. It's the source's hissing that is made audible by the ZS6.


----------



## AndrewPL

maxxevv said:


> Check that your cables have been attached correctly. That sounds like what people have experienced with wrong polarity.
> 
> A PSA from @Slater:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


Thank you for pointing that out, I bought this cable and I was going to throw it away because I thought it was faulty, after reading your post I checked again and changed the plug orientation. Now it works


----------



## Fahim Foysal

trumpethead said:


> Gearbest is staying to become unreliable..they do not respond to customer messages sent via Facebook messenger which is the way they recommend to contact got customer service..Think I'm gonna stick with Ali and Amazon for future purchases..


I never had a problem with customer service in any website except gearbest. They were supposed to dispatch the zs6 on 8th of this month. I paid for it on 1st october They didn't ship on 8th and only after I asked them on the 10th as to why they didn't ship it yet, they said I needed to send a identification document with the paypal account holder's name in it. I sent them a photo of the passport via both their facebook inbox and their support email but they still don't reply even after 48 hours. I cant even send the photo of the passport by replying to their ticket cause it say's error 404.  This is getting way too annoying. I have never purchased anything from gearbest before and I won't make a future purchase from them either.


----------



## Selenium

dbaker1981 said:


> How do like those? I’ve been looking at them for a while but haven’t heard much about them.



They're really good! Dsnuts says they're better than the Dunu 2000j. So that's something.


----------



## Lorspeaker

Prob my 4th purchase from Gearbest..
no issues w delivery thus far. 

Zs6 notice of shipment on Sat..
arrived yesterday.


----------



## djmakemynight

Wiljen said:


> On a completely different note, I'm picking up this tomorrow and am thrilled to have found one - anybody have a clue what it is or who made it?  (just wondering if anyone else has the same other hobbies).



Is it a magic pot where you put ZS5 and ZS6 inside and ZS11 comes out with quad DDs and quad BAs per side??


----------



## ephrank

Cable standards are confusing me...

Trying to get some quality cable for the ZS5. Found something like this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ted-Cable-With-0-78mm/119089_32814429955.html

The product title clearly says "For KZ ZS5", but it also says "0.78mm 2 pin connnector".

I'm quite sure KZ uses 0.75mm connectors for ZS5, ZS3 according to older posts of this thread.

Will the AliExpress cable damage ZS5 IEMs?


----------



## djmakemynight

Selenium said:


> Well I already have the DM5 which uses almost the same shell so I'd probably go with something different for that reason alone.



They are on my radar as well. Not sure if I should get them for 60 bucks though.


----------



## Selenium

djmakemynight said:


> They are on my radar as well. Not sure if I should get them for 60 bucks though.



They are, IMO, an awesome value. Most of the impressions about them have been posted in the discovery thread as far as I can tell.


----------



## djmakemynight

ephrank said:


> Cable standards are confusing me...
> 
> Trying to get some quality cable for the ZS5. Found something like this:
> 
> ...



It will expand the connecting holes and you will have to stick with 0.78mm from then to get a secure fit. That's what I have gathered from reading around so far.

Better to stick to 0.75mm to be safe.


----------



## mono-type

HiFiChris said:


> Yup. The in-ear, since it is passive, does not hiss. It's the source's hissing that is made audible by the ZS6.


Does the low impedance rating (15 ohms) have something to do with the hissing sound? Does the hissing sound occurs because the ZS6 is too sensitive because of its low impedance?

Anyway, thanks for all the answers, guys!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

mono-type said:


> Does the low impedance rating (15 ohms) have something to do with the hissing sound? Does the hissing sound occurs because the ZS6 is too sensitive because of its low impedance?
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all the answers, guys!



Basically yes.  While impedance is generally not the whole story(as there is sensitivity/mw to consider), the ZS6 are very efficient headphones.  Balanced Armatures are generally very sensitive audio devices, and as you've seen from previous pages the ZS6 is a very, very efficient in-ear monitor.  The much more expensive Campfire Andromeda has a similar issue - it's so efficient that it'll bring out the normally inaudible noise floor.

You'll need to upgrade your source equipment to get rid of the noise.  Not sure what you use but I'm betting it's probably the amplifier that's raising the noise floor the most.


----------



## ReBreaker

AndrewPL said:


> You are right, that's not standard cable that was in the box. I was hoping that this one would be better than stock cable but something is wrong with it. I"ve been testing 3 different cables and this orange is the worst.


You scare me, I have the gray one on a slow boat for my ZS5 v1 and I am expecting different league in comparison with thin ol'SPC....


----------



## vector84

ReBreaker said:


> You scare me, I have the gray one on a slow boat for my ZS5 v1 and I am expecting different league in comparison with thin ol'SPC....


Not sure if you missed it, but his was just a phase problem, easily fixed (on that cable) with a marker to remind you to plug it in backwards 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1555#post-13778448


----------



## Superluc

hakuzen said:


> Frequency response graph of ZS5 when using a coupling caps source (Zishan DSD) -bass roll-off-, a "high" output impedance source (GhostAudio miniA1 amplifier, 15Ω) -harsher highs-, and a source with no coupling caps and output impedance <1Ω:


The Zishan model you are using have 100Ω of output impedance ? I was thinking about buy the Z2 and coupling it with a Topping on the LO, but if it's higher impedance output work well on balancing the highs on the ZS6, it could be better to using it's opamp. Can you try it on the ZS6 ?


----------



## ReBreaker

vector84 said:


> Not sure if you missed it, but his was just a phase problem


Oh well, KZ and theirs sockets... Golden mmcx


----------



## mono-type (Oct 12, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Basically yes.  While impedance is generally not the whole story(as there is sensitivity/mw to consider), the ZS6 are very efficient headphones.  Balanced Armatures are generally very sensitive audio devices, and as you've seen from previous pages the ZS6 is a very, very efficient in-ear monitor.  The much more expensive Campfire Andromeda has a similar issue - it's so efficient that it'll bring out the normally inaudible noise floor.
> 
> You'll need to upgrade your source equipment to get rid of the noise.  Not sure what you use but I'm betting it's probably the amplifier that's raising the noise floor the most.


OK, thanks a lot for the explanation. This is my first balanced armature-dynamic driver hybrid IEM, so I'm kinda new to these stuff. Most IEMs and headphones I have all use dynamic drivers, and the first KZ IEM I've owned is the ZS3. Regarding on sources that I use, I don't hear any hissing on my Superlux HA3D amp, but on my two DAPs (Sandisk Sansa Clip Zip, and an Xduoo X3) I'm hearing constant hissing. I also don't hear any hissing on the headphone jack of my Xiaomi Redmi Note 4X. So, my pair isn't defective at all?


----------



## High on Ketamine

kokakolia said:


> That's your opinion. But, I just hate having boosted treble. The "sparkle in the highs" you're talking about is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to earbuds, especially the cheaper ones from Philips, Sony or Skullcandy. Speaking of which, the Philips SHE3590 has been hyped up to the heavens on head-fi. And they sound just like any other cheap earbud: recessed vocals, boosted shrill treble and to some degree boosted mid-bass. The second I put earphones like these, I immediately frown and throw them away.  I am looking for earphones that sound great with indie/rock/punk tunes that otherwise sound unbearable with bright headphones. Someone mentioned the Beatles, they understand me. I also like having a bit of warmth and some meat in the bass. The perfect earphone (IMHO) is the Marshall Mode. But I lost mine, and I can't afford buying $50 earphones every other month. The Kz ED7 are almost as good and dirt cheap. So I'm curious about the ZSE.
> 
> In my opinion, it's really good that KZ is releasing laid-back and warm earphones. I am not in the market for yet another gutless "V-shaped" sounding earphone with murder treble. The ED9 is the worst example of this. But some people love it that way. If only they weren't the majority...Because reading reviews across the web, I notice that people are heavily biased towards a "V-shaped" sound profile at the expense of dark & warm sounding headphones which get less attention and fewer positive reviews.



I can understand that there are different iems with different sound characteristics for different audiences. Speaking for myself im certainly not a treblehead and am also a little treble sensitive. Ive always looked for near basshead iems. I bought the zse because of its price and good looking specs but even tho I never miss the highs/clarity on almost every headphone I own I find yet the ZSE to be too boring sounding due to the lack of some top end sparkle. Mids could be great on some tracks but are mostly too dark for me and the bass doesnt set itself apart from the mids and isn't too exciting I think. So in short it might be a nice iem for really treble sensitive people or for people who just look for a very laidback sounding iem but for me there is not much music I would take these over any other Kzs I own...


----------



## High on Ketamine

ephrank said:


> Cable standards are confusing me...
> 
> Trying to get some quality cable for the ZS5. Found something like this:
> 
> ...



I own the ES3, ZS3 and ZS5 and the connectors are all the same. I bought the silver upgrade cable for my zs3 and works with both ES3 and ZS5 aswell. 

One thing to mention is that the stock cables which comes with the iems all different from each other in looks and in soundquality


----------



## AndrewPL

ReBreaker said:


> You scare me, I have the gray one on a slow boat for my ZS5 v1 and I am expecting different league in comparison with thin ol'SPC....


This cable must be properly connected otherwise you will get strange effect. The marks "R" and "L" on this transparent plugs are barely visible, at first I did connect the channels correctly and was shocked how poor ZS6 sound and after reading some advice here on this thread I changed the pin orientation and now ZS6 sounds great.
Proper connection should look like this, the mark "L" and "R" should be on the inner side


----------



## HiFiChris

mono-type said:


> Does the low impedance rating (15 ohms) have something to do with the hissing sound? Does the hissing sound occurs because the ZS6 is too sensitive because of its low impedance?
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all the answers, guys!



It's a combination of the low impedance, high sensitivity (<- main factor) and elevated treble that leads to the ZS6 being quite hiss-revealing.

Nope, your IEMs aren't defective in terms of revealing the source's hiss. The xDuoo X3 is, by the way, a really hissy DAP anyway.


----------



## uncola

You know when someone barges into a thread that has many pages and they're like.. hey I'm too lazy to read the thread, someone else do the work for me and find the answer to this question.  and everyone hates him and immediately starts telling him to just read the thread or use the search function you lazy piece of trash.
anyway, what's a good cheap balanced cable that's compatible with the ZS6?  I have a zs6 on the way and I just got a sabaj da3 balanced dac/amp and I think the 2.5mm balanced port on the da3 dac is messed up because I have a 2.5mm to dual rca cable and when I plug it into my preamp there's distortion.  and I'd like to test it by using the zs6 and a balanced iem cable.


----------



## Andre Sayson (Oct 12, 2017)

Can somebody compare Comply tips from those generic Aliexpress foam tips? I ordered 20 pairs on aliexpress for 8 dollars, and if they are close to the feel of complys, then they're a steal. They're still on their way though.

I'll be using them on my ZST, ZS6 and my good old Mi Hybrids


----------



## vector84 (Oct 12, 2017)

uncola said:


> anyway, what's a good cheap balanced cable that's compatible with the ZS6?


I haven't seen any for under about $30 with the right pins.  Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the SPC and OFC upgrade cables are full 4 wire runs, so you could convert one easily enough if you don't mind a little DIY.


----------



## vector84

Andre Sayson said:


> Can somebody compare Comply tips from those generic Aliexpress foam tips? I ordered 20 pairs on aliexpress for 8 dollars, and if they are close to the feel of complys, then they're a steal. They're still on their way though.
> 
> I'll be using them on my ZST, ZS6 and my good old Mi Hybrids


All the real Comply I've ever tried had slower rebounding foam, allowing for a deeper insertion and better isolation.  This same feature makes them remarkably uncomfortable for me for long-term wear however.  The generic foams found on ali are made of a faster rebounding foam - they grow back to their original size rapidly, making especially deep insertion difficult, but due to the same they are far more comfortable imo.  Not sure about sound differences, but the chi-foams do a fine job of taming the highs.


----------



## uncola

thanks Vector, I decided to try reterminating the cable to balanced..  ordered this connector because it looks diy friendly with that set screw and looks like it has some kind of internal rubber insulation insert


----------



## AndrewPL

uncola said:


> You know when someone barges into a thread that has many pages and they're like.. hey I'm too lazy to read the thread, someone else do the work for me and find the answer to this question.  and everyone hates him and immediately starts telling him to just read the thread or use the search function you lazy piece of trash.
> anyway, what's a good cheap balanced cable that's compatible with the ZS6?  I have a zs6 on the way and I just got a sabaj da3 balanced dac/amp and I think the 2.5mm balanced port on the da3 dac is messed up because I have a 2.5mm to dual rca cable and when I plug it into my preamp there's distortion.  and I'd like to test it by using the zs6 and a balanced iem cable.



I have balanced cable connected to my ZS6, looks like this:


----------



## SomeTechNoob

mono-type said:


> Regarding on sources that I use, I don't hear any hissing on my Superlux HA3D amp, but on my two DAPs (Sandisk Sansa Clip Zip, and an Xduoo X3) I'm hearing constant hissing. I also don't hear any hissing on the headphone jack of my Xiaomi Redmi Note 4X. So, my pair isn't defective at all?



I can't speak for DAPs but most Android smartphones have software tricks to make the noise floor unnoticeable.  The headphone output will shut off when it is not being used, so of course there is no audible noise floor.  If you play back a "silent" audio clip, you may find that there is actually a high noise floor, but it becomes inaudible when actual music is playing.


----------



## hydroid

Slater said:


> Hey, to those with the ZS3. I found a new mod tonight.
> 
> It has been previously posted by a few people that removing the red screen on the very end of the nozzle affects the sound. Removing it reduces the bass quantity slightly (while simultaneously removing the muddiness), and also improves the midrange.
> 
> ...



This made me more excited to get my hands on the zs3 because I really love the design. That's actually one of my worry that the zs3 might be to boomy and dark for my taste as I am not a basshead. I really prefer clarity and sparkly details with just right amount of bass. Will definitely try this mod once I received my zs3. Thanks a lot man.,you're great


----------



## Drakis

hydroid said:


> This made me more excited to get my hands on the zs3 because I really love the design. That's actually one of my worry that the zs3 might be to boomy and dark for my taste as I am not a basshead. I really prefer clarity and sparkly details with just right amount of bass. Will definitely try this mod once I received my zs3. Thanks a lot man.,you're great



Some ZS3 (like mine) don't have that piece of foam in the nozzle.


----------



## TimeSnow (Oct 12, 2017)

Deffo gonna try that on my ZS3s....

Boy, I finally got my ATEs.... not very good. Or maybe I just need to spend more time with them... very very very dark and muddy... ?

On the positive side, the new ZS5 cable and foams was a big treat on the commute today! Deffo a big upgrade to the stock vers.


----------



## Andre Sayson

vector84 said:


> All the real Comply I've ever tried had slower rebounding foam, allowing for a deeper insertion and better isolation.  This same feature makes them remarkably uncomfortable for me for long-term wear however.  The generic foams found on ali are made of a faster rebounding foam - they grow back to their original size rapidly, making especially deep insertion difficult, but due to the same they are far more comfortable imo.  Not sure about sound differences, but the chi-foams do a fine job of taming the highs.



Thanks for your insights. I haven't tried foam tips yet. I might buy  Comply tips if I fall in love with these Aliexpress tips. Comply tips are too pricey for me. Almost half of the price of the ZS6 for just 3 pairs.

On another note, when I read about foam tips on the internet, they sound too good to be true. I hope they are, though.


----------



## hydroid

Drakis said:


> Some ZS3 (like mine) don't have that piece of foam in the nozzle.



And how does your zs3 sounds like without that foam in the nozzle? Is it still too bassy / dark? I just ordered mine a week ago and will definitely will try the mod is there's a foam and red screen on the nozzle as I prefer clarity and sparkly (not too bright though) sound on iems.


----------



## Drakis

hydroid said:


> And how does your zs3 sounds like without that foam in the nozzle? Is it still too bassy / dark? I just ordered mine a week ago and will definitely will try the mod is there's a foam and red screen on the nozzle as I prefer clarity and sparkly (not too bright though) sound on iems.



I don't use it quite a lot, because of the sound. Too dark for me, but it has a larger "image" than KZ ATE although.The fit in my ears is great.

PS: i removed the red screen.


----------



## hydroid

Drakis said:


> I don't use it quite a lot, because of the sound. Too dark for me, but it has a larger "image" than KZ ATE although.The fit in my ears is great.
> 
> PS: i removed the red screen.



Still too dark even without the black foam and red screen? Yeah, i've read that fit is really great for most users and the design is great as well.


----------



## Drakis

hydroid said:


> Still too dark even without the black foam and red screen? Yeah, i've read that fit is really great for most users and the design is great as well.



Mine didn't have the foam, but i still removed the red screen. But hey, try it out, the sound may be to your liking.
I like the ZST a lot.


----------



## hydroid

Drakis said:


> Mine didn't have the foam, but i still removed the red screen. But hey, try it out, the sound may be to your liking.
> I like the ZST a lot.



will definitely try it once I received mine probably 2 more weeks of waiting. I'm actually using the zst for a year now and I prefer them over my Pioneer CH9T (too bassy for my taste)., I just ordered the zs3 upon knowing the mod made by slater and the design that looks a lot like CIEM,., thanks for your input man.,really appreciate it


----------



## TimeSnow (Oct 12, 2017)

So the ZST Colourful - FINALLY had a chance to listen to it stock and I gotta say, I think it's an upgrade to the ZST. The bass is better IMO, and the detail is better as well. IMO.

I'm gonna put some Comply foam on it, and the upgrade cable, and see what happens.

I gotta say the reviews make it seem like it's bass lite compared to the ZST, but there's songs where I had to turn DOWN the bass relative to the ZST. Definitely wasn't expecting that!

Anyway, I may change my opinion tomorrow, or with the foam, etc., but that's my first impressions.

-------

EDIT:

So I just spent some time A/B'ing the ZST and ZST Colourful/Pro... 

I changed the cables on the Colorful and put foam on it before I did the A/B'ing.

To ME, the bass in better, still. It's NOT as natively impactful, but with a TOUCH of EQ it's just as potent. And it's more controlled. The Mids are MUCH more present, which means new details are suddenly brought forward. 

The tuning seems to be more "mature" as well... which I think I prefer... 

They DO ABSOLUTELY UNQUESTIONABLY require a PROPER seal... without that seal, you might as well throw them in the bin... 

Saying that, this was with VERY specific tunes. I have a feeling with other songs it might be less obvious these differences.

Anyway, I still think the ZS5s are better, but... well... I have limited foam and upgrade cables - lol - at least for a week or so - right now they're both on the Colourful.

I'll spend more time and update impressions as is warranted.


----------



## Francisk (Oct 12, 2017)

I just received my ZS6 (black) today. Plugged in my silver cable with the correct polarity and inserted the Comply T400 tips then plugged them into my Audio GD NFB11.32 preamp and was a little disappointed with the treble peak which somehow spoils the overall frequency balance. Don't get me wrong, I love my treble and especially frequency extension on both ends of the frequency spectrum but the treble peak on the ZS6 is a little too hot for comfort...Yes...even with the Comply T400 tips which pairs really well with my ZS5v1. In fact the ZS5v1 with Comply T400 tips already produce borderline treble peak but the ZS6 is really taking it a step too far. A real shame really because I really like the KZ ZST (Color Edition), ES3, ZS5v1 and was really looking forward to further improvement but I don't think that's the case. I'm back on my ZS5v1 which sounds much better to my ears than the ZS6. I hope KZ will fix this treble peak issue on their next model, if not on ZS6v2 then. Damn...I really like the ZS6's tight bass with good extension, decent mids and sexy black aluminium housing...It would've been my fav KZ IEM if not for that peaky treble...sigh. For now, I'll keep my ZS6 solely for albums that are recorded and mixed dark without too many cymbals splashing away


----------



## High on Ketamine

I did the ZS3 slater mod a month ago and I can definatly recommend it. It opened the mids and highs without sacrificing bass too much.
The ES3 however is like a more refined ZS3 and is better in almost every way and its very cheap too . Better high extension, clarity, overall detail is much better (zs3 is quite rough in overal frequenties) and has some thundering bass with more impact and warmth than the ZS3. 
Definately an earphone for bassheads while still having good mids ans highs. I actually found the bass too much sometimes.
One plus for the Zs3 is that it has a slightly roomier soundstage and also slightly less fatiguing. I tested both with the silver cable...


----------



## Francisk

High on Ketamine said:


> I did the ZS3 slater mod a month ago and I can definatly recommend it. It opened the mids and highs without sacrificing bass too much.
> The ES3 however is like a more refined ZS3 and is better in almost every way and its very cheap too . Better high extension, clarity, overall detail is much better (zs3 is quite rough in overal frequenties) and has some thundering bass with more impact and warmth than the ZS3.
> Definately an earphone for bassheads while still having good mids ans highs. I actually found the bass too much sometimes.
> One plus for the Zs3 is that it has a slightly roomier soundstage and also slightly less fatiguing. I tested both with the silver cable...


The ES3 bass is also much tighter and has better definition than the ZS3's bloomy bass with poor definition.


----------



## Makahl

Francisk said:


> I just received my ZS6 (black) today. Plugged in my silver cable with the correct polarity and inserted the Comply T400 tips then plugged them into my Audio GD NFB11.32 preamp and was a little disappointed with the treble peak which somehow spoils the overall frequency balance. Don't get me wrong, I love my treble and especially frequency extension on both ends of the frequency spectrum but the treble peak on the ZS6 is a little too hot for comfort...Yes...even with the Comply T400 tips which pairs really well with my ZS5v1. In fact the ZS5v1 with Comply T400 tips already produce borderline treble peak but the ZS6 is really taking it a step too far. A real shame really because I really like the KZ ZST (Color Edition), ES3, ZS5v1 and was really looking forward to further improvement but I don't think that's the case. I'm back on my ZS5v1 which sounds much better to my ears than the ZS6. I hope KZ will fix this treble peak issue on their next model, if not on ZS6v2 then. Damn...I really like the ZS6's tight bass with good extension, decent mids and sexy black aluminium housing...It would've been my fav KZ IEM if not for that peaky treble...sigh. For now, I'll keep my ZS6 solely for albums that are recorded and mixed dark without too many cymbals splashing away



Are you one of these purists which are allergic to EQ? You can tilt down some dBs and it won't hurt and probably will fix your issue. But... maybe ok, EQ will change the artists' propose for the record. So, in this case, you can try damping the nozzle. Just cut out a small piece of damping material (tea bag, alcohol swab, etc...) and place it over the nozzle before you mount the tip.

Example:


Spoiler












Btw, I've been seeing a lot of people blocking the vents in some forums. Could someone please take a measurement with vents blocked? I'll really appreciate!


----------



## hakuzen

Superluc said:


> The Zishan model you are using have 100Ω of output impedance ? I was thinking about buy the Z2 and coupling it with a Topping on the LO, but if it's higher impedance output work well on balancing the highs on the ZS6, it could be better to using it's opamp. Can you try it on the ZS6 ?


i own 2 Zishan DSD (DAC:AK4495SEQ). measured its output impedance time ago.
-stock unit: 0.22Ω@1kHz ("nominal"), 0.47Ω@120Hz, 0.91Ω@60Hz. it uses output coupling caps; although they have respectable capacity, it's not suitable for ZS5 when standalone. used this one for showing the effect of coupling caps on low impedance phones.
-upgraded unit: 10.25Ω@1kHz (i plan to mod it to achieve <1Ω output impedance). no coupling caps.

i don't own zishan Z2, but it looks like more in the line of walnut v2, rather than zishan dsd line. measured walnut output impedance: 100Ω!. this would be suitable to tame ZS6 highs, but i wasn't impressed at all with walnut's frequency responses, noise, disto, stc. hope Z2 sounds better.


----------



## Francisk (Oct 12, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Are you one of these purists which are allergic to EQ? You can tilt down some dBs and it won't hurt and probably will fix your issue. But... maybe ok, EQ will change the artists' propose for the record. So, in this case, you can try damping the nozzle. Just cut out a small piece of damping material (tea bag, alcohol swab, etc...) and place it over the nozzle before you mount the tip.


I use EQ for my work on a daily basis and the last thing I want to do is to EQ every device that I plug my ZS6 into. Another quick solution is to just plug in my ZS5v1 and problem solved...way better solution in my honest opinion.


----------



## mrmoto050

Fox2twenty said:


> Looks like a high powered outdoor stove /burner.


----------



## Superluc

hakuzen said:


> i own 2 Zishan DSD (DAC:AK4495SEQ). measured its output impedance time ago.
> -stock unit: 0.22Ω@1kHz ("nominal"), 0.47Ω@120Hz, 0.91Ω@60Hz. it uses output coupling caps; although they have respectable capacity, it's not suitable for ZS5 when standalone. used this one for showing the effect of coupling caps on low impedance phones.
> -upgraded unit: 10.25Ω@1kHz (i plan to mod it to achieve <1Ω output impedance). no coupling caps.
> 
> i don't own zishan Z2, but it looks like more in the line of walnut v2, rather than zishan dsd line. measured walnut output impedance: 100Ω!. this would be suitable to tame ZS6 highs, but i wasn't impressed at all with walnut's frequency responses, noise, disto, stc. hope Z2 sounds better.


Thanks


----------



## Makahl

Francisk said:


> I use EQ for my work on a daily basis and the last thing I want to do is to EQ every device that I plug my ZS6 into. Another quick solution is to just plug in my ZS5v1 and problem solved...way better solution in my honest opinion.



Fine... But the damping thing is really helpful and can bring an excellent result then you don't need to bother about EQ. Although, since the KZ ZS6 hasn't a flat impedance you'll get different results from different output impedances/sources anyway.


----------



## Francisk

Makahl said:


> Fine... But the damping thing is really helpful and can bring an excellent result then you don't need to bother about EQ. Although, since the KZ ZS6 hasn't a flat impedance you'll get different results from different output impedances/sources anyway.


I have a 75ohm impedance adapter from my Etymotic ER4PT lying around somewhere and I’ll give it a shot once I find that adapter. I’ll let you know the result once I try it.


----------



## Viber

Francisk said:


> I just received my ZS6 (black) today. Plugged in my silver cable with the correct polarity and inserted the Comply T400 tips then plugged them into my Audio GD NFB11.32 preamp and was a little disappointed with the treble peak which somehow spoils the overall frequency balance. Don't get me wrong, I love my treble and especially frequency extension on both ends of the frequency spectrum but the treble peak on the ZS6 is a little too hot for comfort...Yes...even with the Comply T400 tips which pairs really well with my ZS5v1. In fact the ZS5v1 with Comply T400 tips already produce borderline treble peak but the ZS6 is really taking it a step too far. A real shame really because I really like the KZ ZST (Color Edition), ES3, ZS5v1 and was really looking forward to further improvement but I don't think that's the case. I'm back on my ZS5v1 which sounds much better to my ears than the ZS6. I hope KZ will fix this treble peak issue on their next model, if not on ZS6v2 then. Damn...I really like the ZS6's tight bass with good extension, decent mids and sexy black aluminium housing...It would've been my fav KZ IEM if not for that peaky treble...sigh. For now, I'll keep my ZS6 solely for albums that are recorded and mixed dark without too many cymbals splashing away



Wow, i wonder why your opinion is always the exact opposite from mine.
Saying stock ZS5 v1 sounds better than ZS6 is really strange to me.

Keep posting your impressions on future models, i want to see why our opinions are so different.


----------



## Slater

TimeSnow said:


> Deffo gonna try that on my ZS3s....
> 
> Boy, I finally got my ATEs.... not very good. Or maybe I just need to spend more time with them... very very very dark and muddy... ?
> 
> On the positive side, the new ZS5 cable and foams was a big treat on the commute today! Deffo a big upgrade to the stock vers.



ATE needs mods to sound the best.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Viber said:


> Wow, i wonder why your opinion is always the exact opposite from mine.
> Saying stock ZS5 v1 sounds better than ZS6 is really strange to me.
> 
> Keep posting your impressions on future models, i want to see why our opinions are so different.



If you're really sensitive to sibilance I can see how that would happen.


----------



## Francisk

Viber said:


> Wow, i wonder why your opinion is always the exact opposite from mine.
> Saying stock ZS5 v1 sounds better than ZS6 is really strange to me.
> 
> Keep posting your impressions on future models, i want to see why our opinions are so different.


Well, a good logical answer will be that we both have different ears and different taste in sound.


----------



## Wiljen

The odd thing to me is that the Zs5 and 6 have similar frequency response and yet I find the Zs6 with foams to be fairly consistent when I put my DAP on random and just let it play.  The 6 doesnt seem to care what you throw at it, it stays pretty much consistent and reasonably enjoyable (if a bit sibilant at times).   The Zs5v1 on the other hand, I simply cannot play 5 random songs in a row without finding at least one that just sounds bad. More often than not, it is 2 of 5 or better that don't hold up.   My Zs5s were quickly relegated to the drawer and aren't likely to be coming out soon or often.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 12, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> The odd thing to me is that the Zs5 and 6 have similar frequency response and yet I find the Zs6 with foams to be fairly consistent when I put my DAP on random and just let it play.  The 6 doesnt seem to care what you throw at it, it stays pretty much consistent and reasonably enjoyable (if a bit sibilant at times).   The Zs5v1 on the other hand, I simply cannot play 5 random songs in a row without finding at least one that just sounds bad. More often than not, it is 2 of 5 or better that don't hold up.   My Zs5s were quickly relegated to the drawer and aren't likely to be coming out soon or often.


Since they're relegated to the drawer anyway... have you checked under the screens at all?  Not saying there's anything wrong with them ... this just strikes me as pretty similar to my long standing impressions of the ZS5 - an impression that went away when I tore out the screens and found them to be in direct contact with (and glued to) the BAs.

And if you do decide to do some tampering, while you're in there, @Viber reported a very similar experience for very different reasons and a very different solution (Viber mod) 


PS: Remember the screens of the ZS5 are glued on and this is a mildly destructive procedure


----------



## HiFiChris

Wiljen said:


> The odd thing to me is that the Zs5 and 6 have similar frequency response and yet I find the Zs6 with foams to be fairly consistent when I put my DAP on random and just let it play.  The 6 doesnt seem to care what you throw at it, it stays pretty much consistent and reasonably enjoyable (if a bit sibilant at times).   The Zs5v1 on the other hand, I simply cannot play 5 random songs in a row without finding at least one that just sounds bad. More often than not, it is 2 of 5 or better that don't hold up.   My Zs5s were quickly relegated to the drawer and aren't likely to be coming out soon or often.



Apart from the stronger treble spike on the ZS6, their FR isn't even identical. The difference is in the upper mids that are less elevated on the ZS6, giving them a less distant and less hollow-ish appearance whereas the ZS5 v1 could sound a tad too artificial from time to time with more vocal-oriented tracks. That's why a mixture of the ZS6's lows and mids along with the ZS5 v1's highs would be an awesome combination. Dear Knowledge Zenith representatives, if you read along these lines, please make exactly that happen, but not by silently releasing a ZS6 v2 but a ZS7.


----------



## VinceHill24

So apparently KZ will drop the green and bring a new grey colour for their zs6. I'm not sure why they drop the green. Copyright issue ?? Lol


----------



## djmakemynight

VinceHill24 said:


> So apparently KZ will drop the green and bring a new grey colour for their zs6. I'm not sure why they drop the green. Copyright issue ?? Lol



Wow, meaning those who bought green would actually be holding on to limited editions?


----------



## HiFiChris

VinceHill24 said:


>



And they still haven't changed the spelling on the shells...


----------



## SiggyFraud

Anyone here tried ordering from fasttech.com? They sell the ZS6 for $34.02 with a 12 day delivery for only $2.00. Sounds good, right?


----------



## bsoplinger

SiggyFraud said:


> Anyone here tried ordering from fasttech.com? They sell the ZS6 for $34.02 with a 12 day delivery for only $2.00. Sounds good, right?


Never audio but lots of vaping gear. I've had the same experience as many other vapers. How that translates to audio purchases is unknown. Shipping is quick and cheap as long as you upgrade from the free slow boat method. E-packet if offered is the best consistently quick inexpensive shipping method. The biggest problem with FastTech is getting them to actually ship the product! There is a tendency to list an item as available in 2 days, for example, but it ends up not shipping until 2 weeks have passed. Myself and others have learned that unless it says in stock ready to ship you may end up waiting (and waiting) regardless of shipping method chosen.

My experience with Gearbest and ali (and Banggood) are that they all are pretty good with the indicated shipping date.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

deleted


----------



## vector84

What kind of *drives* are in your IEMs?


----------



## Mallo

Zs3 are still a good choice with the launch of es3 for few dollars more? What about comfort of zs3, zst, es3?


----------



## bsoplinger

Not sure if I should be asking here or the ChiFi thread... 

I rather like the sound I'm getting from the KZ ZS5 I own but find comfort for extended listening not very good. I purchased the TFZ Exclusive 5 via Massdrop because I've seen reviews which led me to believe that they'd have a similar bass response but I'm not getting that. Additionally I have a personal issue with comfort from the standard style silicone ear tip. I'm guessing that its because the material does not allow my skin to breathe properly, as compared to Comply or even Chinese foam, so I end up with an itchy feeling if I wear the earphone over 45 minutes to an hour. I actually prefer them in general over the NuForce Primo 8 I got from Massdrop even though overall the Primo 8 has a flatter extended frequency response. 

So a number of questions... 
1) is there another good choice in IEM to get with a similar bass and sub bass sound signature? (I am awaiting delivery of a pair of ZS6 but I think I want something "more") I'm perfectly happy with something that isn't in the ChiFi category but about $200 is my upper limit. 
2) ear tip or wear suggestions as to why the TFZ don't have much bass for me? I've been using in ear products for years, since the etymotic er 6 and before so I'm used to fiddling for the correct fit.
2a) ear tip suggestions above and beyond silicone, comply, Chinese foam, and KZ silicone (which I do find a bit more 'wearable' for me than other silicone tips.)


----------



## Lorspeaker (Oct 19, 2017)

This KZsilverplatedcable aint good for the zs6..burned by ears 




These KZ foamies aint good for ZS6...
kept slipping 
[edit...one foamie just tore today...split into 2???? crazy..i tot foamies melt??? ]

So its back to the stockcable...perfect




Chose 2 youtubes ..on my samsungfone;
went back n forth afew rounds..
ZS6 is my fav...
filled up the sound spectrum...
picked up details the others couldnt decode.

Utubers owe it to yourselves to get a ZS6.


----------



## eaglesgift

bsoplinger said:


> Not sure if I should be asking here or the ChiFi thread...
> 
> I rather like the sound I'm getting from the KZ ZS5 I own but find comfort for extended listening not very good. I purchased the TFZ Exclusive 5 via Massdrop because I've seen reviews which led me to believe that they'd have a similar bass response but I'm not getting that. Additionally I have a personal issue with comfort from the standard style silicone ear tip. I'm guessing that its because the material does not allow my skin to breathe properly, as compared to Comply or even Chinese foam, so I end up with an itchy feeling if I wear the earphone over 45 minutes to an hour. I actually prefer them in general over the NuForce Primo 8 I got from Massdrop even though overall the Primo 8 has a flatter extended frequency response.
> 
> ...


Iv'e got the Exclusive 5 and I was surprised by how much bass they have. I've used the shallow tips and the double flange tips that come with them and they sound great with both as far as bass is concerned. I think I'm getting a very close fit though, because I can hear some driver flex in the left side when inserting (my right ear canal just a little bigger I think). Did you try all the supplied tips?


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> 2a) ear tip suggestions above and beyond silicone, comply, Chinese foam, and KZ silicone (which I do find a bit more 'wearable' for me than other silicone tips.)


I saw these a while back and thought to myself "but why?" but your commentary made me think of them again.  *I have never tried them!* but seems like it's something out there enough that you might find it interesting for your situation.

plush tips - I feel like I found a better description and more sizes before and it had some rambling commentary about a special process to bond fleece to silicone - but this is all I could find this time:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...eeve-Ear-Tip-Earbuds/1825606_32763218632.html


----------



## snip3r77

djmakemynight said:


> Wow, meaning those who bought green would actually be holding on to limited editions?


And can sell slightly cheaper than andromeda


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> ATE needs mods to sound the best.


True! They become single dynamic "beasts" when modded 


SomeGuyDude said:


> If you're really sensitive to sibilance I can see how that would happen.


Though, I don`t own ZS6 (yet) I second that. I have pretty similar taste and hearing with SomeGuyDude in many related IEMs and I can see (hear) myself also outputting same opinion. And poor thing is - I hate using foamies - so, that`s not option for me. Probably would have to mod BA nozzle.


HiFiChris said:


> Apart from the stronger treble spike on the ZS6, their FR isn't even identical. The difference is in the upper mids that are less elevated on the ZS6, giving them a less distant and less hollow-ish appearance whereas the ZS5 v1 could sound a tad too artificial from time to time with more vocal-oriented tracks. *That's why a mixture of the ZS6's lows and mids along with the ZS5 v1's highs would be an awesome combination. *Dear Knowledge Zenith representatives, if you read along these lines, please make exactly that happen, but not by silently releasing a ZS6 v2 but a ZS7.



I hope they do it - otherwise I will do my own wooden mod ;D

Will stay on hold with buying ZS6.


----------



## graphidz

I just got my ZS5 a few days ago. I really like it, especially for the price. Too bad(maybe?) that I got the v1 of it. now i'm very tempted to open it up and try some mod (like maybe clear some of the glue, put in foam or even try and replace the BA driver to the nozzle or something lol. Too bad if I had some extra money, I could get a few pairs and mod the heck out of those. Being a starving student is hard.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Treasure the ZS5 v1.  From the plethora of reports the v1 seems much better than v2...


----------



## graphidz

SomeTechNoob said:


> Treasure the ZS5 v1.  From the plethora of reports the v1 seems much better than v2...



I see. Guess I'll order the v2 in the future and mod the heck out of that. On another note, I wonder if this is a cheap way for DIY to get IEM drivers? That would be a neat idea tbh.


----------



## CoiL

graphidz said:


> I see. Guess I'll order the v2 in the future and mod the heck out of that. On another note, I wonder if this is a cheap way for DIY to get IEM drivers? That would be a neat idea tbh.


Getting drivers out of ZS5v1/v2 or ZS6 is PITA!!! You need some serious patience and proper tools to do that - they are full of dirty sticky blue glue!


----------



## graphidz

CoiL said:


> Getting drivers out of ZS5v1/v2 or ZS6 is PITA!!! You need some serious patience and proper tools to do that - they are full of dirty sticky blue glue!



Does reheating them so that the glue melt to remove them not very effective? I was thinking of wanting to clear some unnecessary glue (assuming it helps to make SQ better). But hey, I'm coming from a headphone modder, so most of my knowledge wouldn't apply probably lol/


----------



## eaglesgift

SomeTechNoob said:


> Treasure the ZS5 v1.  From the plethora of reports the v1 seems much better than v2...


I like the v2, I thought it was an improvement on the v1.


----------



## CoiL

eaglesgift said:


> I like the v2, I thought it was an improvement on the v1.


To me and by many other reports it is opposite - v2 is actually downgrade regarding highs.


----------



## High on Ketamine

Mallo said:


> Zs3 are still a good choice with the launch of es3 for few dollars more? What about comfort of zs3, zst, es3?



I call the zs3 a nice cheap iem but if you want something better go with ES3. ZS3 sounds low-res in comparison and the bass can be so satisfying on ES3 . Highs are also a bit more grown up. Zs3 is lowfi and es3 is more highfi. ES3 is slightly more comfortable but both are still a bit bulky for me


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 13, 2017)

CoiL said:


> To me and by many other reports it is opposite - v2 is actually downgrade regarding highs.


Yes I know. I'm just saying I don't agree. Or, to put other it another way, that's not been my experience.

What don't you like about the highs on the v2?


----------



## zozito

eaglesgift said:


> Yes I know. I'm just saying I don't agree. Or, to put other it another way, that's not been my experience.
> 
> What don't you like about the highs on the v2?


 I also like the way v.2 sounds.


----------



## CoiL

Yes, of course, it`s subjective. If You are very sensitive to highs (Your hearing is not damaged by loud music etc.) then v1 seems better. Just many have found v2 highs due to 2BAs in nozzle way too much.
I`m just generalizing overall opinions on v1 vs v2.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 13, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Yes, of course, it`s subjective. If You are very sensitive to highs (Your hearing is not damaged by loud music etc.) then v1 seems better. Just many have found v2 highs due to 2BAs in nozzle way too much.
> I`m just generalizing overall opinions on v1 vs v2.


Can you tell me a couple of the songs/tunes you find better with the v1 than the v2 with regard to treble? I'd be interested to try and see if I can hear what you and others don't like about the v2. It is quite possible that I'm less treble sensitive due to listening to loud music as I played in a band in my earlier years and never used ear plugs. I also used to ride motorbikes long distances and I've read the decibel level of the wind when riding a bike is high enough to cause hearing loss with prolonged exposure (even when wearing a good quality helmet).

(I can hear the frequencies up to 18k on some tests I've tried online but I'm not sure how reliable they are)


----------



## High on Ketamine

Im enjoying my foam-modded, silvercabled ZS5 v1 with foamtips right now XD


----------



## Paulo099

Can anyone give an impression or review of the KZ LP5? I've been looking for a bluetooth headphone under $50 and I can't find any review or impression in the internet.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 13, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Getting drivers out of ZS5v1/v2 or ZS6 is PITA!!! You need some serious patience and proper tools to do that - they are full of dirty sticky blue glue!


That's because so far as I've seen they have crappy insides that don't match the nice outside. Hence, why there is so much inconsistancies in the products. Seems like everyone has to mod this or mod that to get them to sound right. Poor workmanship, jmo


----------



## jaydm99

Guys I'm using KZ starlines medium on both ZS3 and ZS5. When I push them all the way in, the ZS5 doesn't give that much resistance when I pull it out. Unlike the ZS3 that "burries" itself inside. So I think this might be the reason that I'm hearing a severe lack of bass from the ZS5. When listening to them A/B, the ZS5 sounds like it doesn't have any bass. The ZS5 just feels loose. I really feel that I don't get a proper seal. The bigger or smaller tips didnt help either. Should I go for foam with the ZS5? Trouble is I have to wait for 2-3 weeks for foams to arrive from ebay/AliExpress.

Sorry for the crappy description. I'm quite new to this.


----------



## filltos

eaglesgift said:


> Iv'e got the Exclusive 5 and I was surprised by how much bass they have. I've used the shallow tips and the double flange tips that come with them and they sound great with both as far as bass is concerned. I think I'm getting a very close fit though, because I can hear some driver flex in the left side when inserting (my right ear canal just a little bigger I think). Did you try all the supplied tips?



How is the ZS5 compare with TFZ Exclusive 5? Is there audible improvement? TFZ are in my sight. Is it worth upgrade?


----------



## filltos

Foam will definitely help with bass.


----------



## eaglesgift

filltos said:


> How is the ZS5 compare with TFZ Exclusive 5? Is there audible improvement? TFZ are in my sight. Is it worth upgrade?


Yes, absolutely. I still like the ZS5s but the TFZ Exclusive 5 is in a different class as far as I'm concerned. The main difference is in the texture, for want of a better word, of the mids...I'm not sure what kind of music you like but I used the first track off Dream Theater's 2013 album to test the two back to back and the crunchy sound of the guitar is far more present and detailed with the Exclusive 5s. Apart from that, I'd say they were a level up all round (detail, bass etcetera) but I'm not very good at describing sound quality. The easiest way I can sum up is to say that the TFZ Exclusive 5s cost me three times more than the ZS5s and I was really pleased I bought them when I first plugged them in. I was impressed, not disappointed. Only small negative I can think of is that the cables don't seem to fit very tightly into the sockets so I actually put a tiny dab of glue in mine. I don't think they'd actually drop out but I could see a couple of mm of the metal prongs after wearing them for a while and then taking them out, and it used to annoy me.


----------



## mrmoto050

eaglesgift said:


> Yes, absolutely. I still like the ZS5s but the TFZ Exclusive 5 is in a different class as far as I'm concerned. The main difference is in the texture, for want of a better word, of the mids...I'm not sure what kind of music you like but I used the first track off Dream Theater's 2013 album to test the two back to back and the crunchy sound of the guitar is far more present and detailed with the Exclusive 5s. Apart from that, I'd say they were a level up all round (detail, bass etcetera) but I'm not very good at describing sound quality. The easiest way I can sum up is to say that the TFZ Exclusive 5s cost me three times more than the ZS5s and I was really pleased I bought them when I first plugged them in. I was impressed, not disappointed. Only small negative I can think of is that the cables don't seem to fit very tightly into the sockets so I actually put a tiny dab of glue in mine. I don't think they'd actually drop out but I could see a couple of mm of the metal prongs after wearing them for a while and then taking them out, and it used to annoy me.


Those TFZ's look like RHA Clones with the exception of no filters.


----------



## Slater (Oct 13, 2017)

mrmoto050 said:


> That's because so far as I've seen they have crappy insides that don't match the nice outside. Hence, why there is so much inconsistancies in the products. Seems like everyone has to mod this or mod that to get them to sound right. Poor workmanship, jmo



I don't think tip rolling to get improved sound is a negative thing, nor is it an indicator or poor workmanship and/or inconsistencies. Most of us tip and earpad roll just about everything we own at one point or another. Tip rolling is a valid and encouraged way to tweak the properties of an earphone for more individuality - helping with comfort, sound tuning, fitment issues, etc.

Do you actually own the ZS5, or is this opinion you have solely based on what you've read/heard/watched on youtube?

When you say "crappy insides", are you talking about the 'blue advesive', which is in reality silicone sealant used to actually IMPROVE IEMs by helping to dampen harmonics and reflected waves in multi-driver and especially BA-based IEMs? 90% of IEMs don't even have this additional feature, and KZ could have saved money by omitting it like most manufacturers.

It's a $20 IEM, mass produced in China. That's TWENTY DOLLARS - the same as a couple of Chipolte burritos, a few gallons of gasoline, or a few cups of Starbucks. For the price they are an incredible value. Go compare them to a pair of $20 earbuds from Best Buy, and see which one is "crappy".

Sure, there are a few QC issues here and there with KZ, but that's the case with every product no matter who the manufacturer is.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 13, 2017)

Slater said:


> I don't think tip rolling to get improved sound is a negative thing, nor is it an indicator or poor workmanship and/or inconsistencies. Most of us tip and earpad roll just about everything we own at one point or another. Tip rolling is a valid and encouraged way to tweak the properties of an earphone for more individuality - helping with comfort, sound tuning, fitment issues, etc.
> 
> Do you actually own the ZS5, or is this opinion you have solely based on what you've read/heard/watched on youtube?
> 
> ...


I own the KZS5, KZS6, ED9 , ATE and some others, I still think the "inside" workmanship is to coin a phrase "Crappy" and I do tip roll, that is usually a given with most IEM's. Sorry to ruffle your feathers.


----------



## Slater (Oct 13, 2017)

mrmoto050 said:


> I own the KZS5, KZS6, ED9 , ATE and some others, I still think the "inside" workmanship is to coin a phrase "Crappy" and I do tip roll, that is usually a given with most IEM's. Sorry to ruffle your feathers.



Don't worry, you didn't ruffle my feathers, and I wasn't assumimg anything other than the words that came out of your own post.

I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from that's all. You came across as bent out of shape over a $20 Chinese IEM not being the pinnacle of quality and worksmanship. And there seems to be quite a few armchair types that don't even own an IEM, yet have a strong opinion after watching a few biased YouTube videos.

We all hear things differently, and not every headphone is everyone's cup of tea. If you don't like the ZS5, move onto to something else that you do like - there's certainly plenty to pick from in the same price category. Life's too short to not enjoy your music on something you feel good about.

That's great that you tip roll, it it looks like you have a nice little collection of IEMs. I hope you find something that you like better, as we are all on that journey


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 13, 2017)

Slater said:


> Don't worry, you didn't ruffle my feathers, and I wasn't assumimg anything other than the words that came out of your own post.
> 
> I was simply trying to understand where you were coming from that's all. You came across as bent out of shape over a $20 Chinese IEM not being the pinnacle of quality and worksmanship. And there seems to be quite a few armchair types that don't even own an IEM, yet have a strong opinion after watching a few biased YouTube videos.
> 
> ...


Agree on the journey section and everyone has different preference depending on hearing, btw, I never said that I didn't like the ZS5, however I prefer the ZS6 over it. Also never watch youtube reviews, prefer to read (it takes more thought to write an article imo) I have a lot of audio equipment as I am sure you also. Cheers


----------



## groucho69

eaglesgift said:


> Yes, absolutely. I still like the ZS5s but the TFZ Exclusive 5 is in a different class as far as I'm concerned. The main difference is in the texture, for want of a better word, of the mids...I'm not sure what kind of music you like but I used the first track off Dream Theater's 2013 album to test the two back to back and the crunchy sound of the guitar is far more present and detailed with the Exclusive 5s. Apart from that, I'd say they were a level up all round (detail, bass etcetera) but I'm not very good at describing sound quality. The easiest way I can sum up is to say that the TFZ Exclusive 5s cost me three times more than the ZS5s and I was really pleased I bought them when I first plugged them in. I was impressed, not disappointed. Only small negative I can think of is that the cables don't seem to fit very tightly into the sockets so I actually put a tiny dab of glue in mine. I don't think they'd actually drop out but I could see a couple of mm of the metal prongs after wearing them for a while and then taking them out, and it used to annoy me.



.I concur entirely except that I have no issue at all with cable fit. Nice and tight.


----------



## TimeSnow

Used the ZS5 on two long bus journeys today... In fact am still sitting on a bus right now listening to them....for the money they're brilliant. Better than the other KZs I've heard... Haven't heard the ZS6s though... 

Big fan of the brand, and particularly the price to performance ratio. 

It's just an easy, cheap way to make your life nicer. What's not to like?

I can't wait for my LZ A4s, but for so so so so many people the ZS5s are all they'd ever need IMO.


----------



## eaglesgift

groucho69 said:


> .I concur entirely except that I have no issue at all with cable fit. Nice and tight.


I must have been unlucky but it was only a very small issue that was easily "fixed".


----------



## eaglesgift

mrmoto050 said:


> Those TFZ's look like RHA Clones with the exception of no filters.


I suppose they look a little like the t20i but they're a different shape.


----------



## groucho69

eaglesgift said:


> I suppose they look a little like the t20i but they're a different shape.



My zither has been fragranted and I am pleased


----------



## Rilke

So I just jumped into the zs6 boat . Can anyone tell me their foam size ?


----------



## vector84

Rilke said:


> So I just jumped into the zs6 boat . Can anyone tell me their foam size ?


Comply recommends T500s, ali sellers frequently don't differentiate between T400/T500 (4.9-5mm) and that size works.


----------



## High on Ketamine

Jay Magaling said:


> Guys I'm using KZ starlines medium on both ZS3 and ZS5. When I push them all the way in, the ZS5 doesn't give that much resistance when I pull it out. Unlike the ZS3 that "burries" itself inside. So I think this might be the reason that I'm hearing a severe lack of bass from the ZS5. When listening to them A/B, the ZS5 sounds like it doesn't have any bass. The ZS5 just feels loose. I really feel that I don't get a proper seal. The bigger or smaller tips didnt help either. Should I go for foam with the ZS5? Trouble is I have to wait for 2-3 weeks for foams to arrive from ebay/AliExpress.
> 
> Sorry for the crappy description. I'm quite new to this.



My foam tips arrived just yesterday and the seal much more secure and deep so the bass is clearer and deeper with some more warmht. A good seal is important. I agree that the zs3 sucks a kind of vacuum in your ear while zs5 just wont get deep enough. So fomies are much better and are very cheap on aliexpress


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 15, 2017)

Had the chance to audition the BGVP DM5 side by side with the Zs6 today as one of my co-workers picked up the DM5.  Much as I like the Zs6, for $15 more the DM5 was a better buy.    The sound signature on the DM5 is more refined with a mid-forward sound and well mannered treble.  It loses a little sub-bass extension to the Zs6 so bassheads may prefer the Zs6 but those who want a little bit more balanced and less V shaped signature will like the DM5.  I also think the build on the DM5 was on par or a little better than the zs6.  I like the cable attachments better on the DM5 as the mmcx isnt mostly plastic like the socket on the Zs6.    I'm getting to the point where I think that to get much better than what Kz has already done, they are either going to have to really step up their game or you are better to save up what you would have spent on 2 or 3 Kz items and grab a BGVP DM5, a Magaosi K3, a Fiio F9, or a TFZ series 2.   We put all of those side by side with the Zs6 today and all of them bettered the Zs6 with the possible exception of the Series 2 which is way more balanced but really loses out on the bass extension and quantity.


----------



## snip3r77

Wiljen said:


> Had the chance to audition the BGVP DM5 side by side with the Zs6 today as one of my co-workers picked up the DM5.  Much as I like the Zs6, for $15 more the DM5 was a better buy.    The sound signature on the DM5 is more refined with a mid-forward sound and well mannered treble.  It loses a little sub-base extension to the Zs6 so bassheads may prefer the Zs6 but those who want a little bit more balanced and less V shaped signature will like the DM5.  I also think the build on the DM5 was on par or a little better than the zs6.  I like the cable attachments better on the DM5 as the mmcx isnt mostly plastic like the socket on the Zs6.    I'm getting to the point where I think that to get much better than what Kz has already done, they are either going to have to really step up their game or you are better to save up what you would have spent on 2 or 3 Kz items and grab a BGVP DM5, a Magaosi K3, a Fiio F9, or a TFZ series 2.   We put all of those side by side with the Zs6 today and all of them bettered the Zs6 with the possible exception of the Series 2 which is way more balanced but really loses out on the bass extension and quantity.




Very good insight.

So at the end if you have a choice which should one pick if one likes abit more bass and forward mids.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Rilke said:


> So I just jumped into the zs6 boat . Can anyone tell me their foam size ?



Aim for about a 5-6mm bore. The Bee tips that are like $5 for a six pack are perfect.


----------



## ReBreaker

HiFiChris said:


> And they still haven't changed the spelling on the shells...


Certainly not, but maybe it's a new grey hero made of steel who will silencely assassinate the sibilant highs and who proclaims himself as Mr. Rev. 2... Or... It's just another fully loaded treble cannon


----------



## HiFiChris (Oct 14, 2017)

As announced, my full review of the ZS6 (that can, as always, be translated to pretty much any language using the translator widget below the navigation bar, well, except for maybe Klingon, however Klingon is no real existing language anyway, so...) went live today: http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2017/10/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs6-review-german-deutsch.html




Be warned, it (<- my review) is rather edgy.


----------



## JayceOoi

Great deal alert... 

KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - USAUDIO2
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html

KZ ZS6 @ $29.32 with this code - 4ALL5
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## NeonHD (Oct 14, 2017)

My KZ ED2 just came in the mail today 

The SQ is definitely on par with what everybody says about them, they're overall a good sounding IEM and they do everything just right. Not perfect, but just right. Bass has just the right amount of tightness (more sub-bass than mid-bass), mids are detailed and clear, and the treble is bright and crisp without sounding too splashy or overdone like the KZ ED9. They also sound quite loud on my phone compared to my ATE-S and HDS3, which is a good indication that they don't need much power to drive them. Overall the sound is tamed and balanced but still forward sounding; it's a V-shaped sound signature done right at a low price point.  

P.S. The packaging says it's the EDR1, is that just another name for the ED2?


----------



## NeonHD (Oct 14, 2017)

Posted this by accident


----------



## young59

So guys I need  your help in two matters

1. I bought the xiaomi mi A1 since it had a dedicated amp thought it might pair up nicely with my ZS5 v2 but turns out they are too damn sensitive for my phone amp and I head a constant hissing which is loud enough to be noticeable during songs so I am as many people suggesting using an impedance adapter but since I can't bear buying a adapter which will cost me more than a new pair of IEM I am just making my own impedance adapter I have already received the parts just waiting on the resistances I want to know the ideal resistance to use.I couldn't find the spec sheet of the amp used in the mi A1 just know what they advertised that it support headphone upto 600 ohm and a voltage of 10V.



2. I am a student can't afford to buy a DAC+AMP so I thought of making my own using PCM5120A DAC which is used in the Fiio E10k and TPA6120 Amp which is used in the SMSL SAP-9 but the problem is I can't seem to find a usb to I2S board(not a chip) can anyone help me in finding a way to used this DAC+AMP with a computer using usb. Also if I could program an arduino to function as a usb to I2S bridge/boards.I know this is not the right thread but I did make a thread about this in the DIY section but no replies.


Chips I am referring to
TPA6120
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CJM...ower-audio-amplifier-TPA6120/32767803829.html

PCM5102a
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ras...-bit-Audio-Board-With-Stereo/32744871341.html


----------



## Viber

JayceOoi said:


> Great deal alert...
> 
> KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - USAUDIO2
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html
> ...



Holy smokes! 
That's a great deal for both of these.


----------



## BrunoC

Just bought the ZS6 for €24,94!

Cool or what ?


----------



## bsoplinger

Viber said:


> Holy smokes!
> That's a great deal for both of these.


I keep getting a 'system is busy try again later' message when I try to order the ZS5


----------



## M1cro

Hello,I'm thinking about KZ earphones, but I don't know ES3 or ZS5? What would you suggest? Or even another model? I would use them for listening to jazz/pop/soul/rock, but also wondering to buy the bluetooth wire to use them in the gym.


----------



## Superluc

young59 said:


> I am a student can't afford to buy a DAC+AMP


You can always buy a Zishan Z1 for around 25$


----------



## vector84 (Oct 14, 2017)

young59 said:


> 1. I bought the xiaomi mi A1 since it had a dedicated amp thought it might pair up nicely with my ZS5 v2 but turns out they are too damn sensitive for my phone amp and I head a constant hissing which is loud enough to be noticeable during songs so I am as many people suggesting using an impedance adapter but since I can't bear buying a adapter which will cost me more than a new pair of IEM I am just making my own impedance adapter I have already received the parts just waiting on the resistances I want to know the ideal resistance to use.I couldn't find the spec sheet of the amp used in the mi A1 just know what they advertised that it support headphone upto 600 ohm and a voltage of 10V.


Not sure if the ZS5 v2 impedance has been measured, but I don't think so?  Still, it probably looks more like the ZS5 v1 than thew ZS6, so you'd want a voltage divider... something like 16 ohms + 1.5 ohms (or 16+1 for even more attenuation), you should check some of the voltage divider threads around here for the exact math, but iirc around 0.5W should be pretty safe at sane listening volumes.

PS: Here's one with the math for safe power values:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed.601669/
[the (Faux) Impedance Decreasing Adapters section]


----------



## young59

Superluc said:


> You can always buy a Zishan Z1 for around 25$


I am looking for DAC+Amp to connect to my laptop not a DAP.


----------



## maxxevv

young59 said:


> I am looking for DAC+Amp to connect to my laptop not a DAP.



You can check out the Sabaj DA2. Its supposedly the same thing as the SMSL Idea and reviews for the SMSL are pretty good it seems.


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> Not sure if the ZS5 v2 impedance has been measured, but I don't think so?  Still, it probably looks more like the ZS5 v1 than thew ZS6, so you'd want a voltage divider... something like 16 ohms + 1.5 ohms (or 16+1 for even more attenuation), you should check some of the voltage divider threads around here for the exact math, but iirc around 0.5W should be pretty safe at sane listening volumes.
> 
> PS: Here's one with the math for safe power values:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed.601669/


Yeah the ZS6 is just the ZS5 v2 with a metal shell so the impedance would be same imo.I just want to decrease its sensitivity I don't mind increasing the impedance high since it is supposed to handle upto 600 ohm I just want to remove the hissing.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Yeah the ZS6 is just the ZS5 v2 with a metal shell so the impedance would be same imo.I just want to decrease its sensitivity I don't mind increasing the impedance high since it is supposed to handle upto 600 ohm I just want to remove the hissing.


Nope ZS6 has a crossover @16 ohms impedance, adding resistance damps the highs.

ZS5 no crossover @4.8 ohms, adding resistance damps the bass/mids, ups the highs.

*WAAAAAY* different.


----------



## young59

maxxevv said:


> You can check out the Sabaj DA2. Its supposedly the same thing as the SMSL Idea and reviews for the SMSL are pretty good it seems.


That costs 62$ on aliexpress.


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> Nope ZS6 has a crossover @16 ohms impedance, adding resistance damps the highs.
> 
> ZS5 no crossover @4.8 ohms, adding resistance damps the bass/mids, ups the highs.
> 
> *WAAAAAY* different.


Oh sorry my bad I thought they were the same in terms of specs.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 14, 2017)

young59 said:


> Oh sorry my bad I thought they were the same in terms of specs.


For the ZS6 around 75 ohms serial is ideal.

For the ZS5 you would want a voltage divider though, 16+1.5 (Ear Buddy) is what I use.

And if those diagrams are confusing to you, the construction is dead simple... resistors in series connected input-16-1.5-ground, pull your output signal line from inbetween the 16 and the 1.5, ground just goes to ground.  Just make sure to try to cut everything to exactly the same size, those lead lengths matter.

Oh, and connect everything directly to the input jack if you can, don't use extra wire between the input jack and the resistors, it will help give you better channel matching and the right amount of attenuation.  You can add more wire on the output signal leads if you need space/length.


----------



## snip3r77

I think for such sound quality , probably zs5 v1 would be the safest to choose


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> For the ZS6 around 75 ohms serial is ideal.
> 
> For the ZS5 you would want a voltage divider though, 16+1.5 (Ear Buddy) is what I use.
> 
> ...


Sorry I still can't under how to make it do you mean something like this?


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Sorry I still can't under how to make it do you mean something like this?


Yup exactly like that.


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> Yup exactly like that.


And the values of resistors same?


----------



## young59

Damm the resistors I will be getting have these values



Guess I am gonna have to use weird combination of these.


----------



## Wiljen

snip3r77 said:


> Very good insight.
> 
> So at the end if you have a choice which should one pick if one likes abit more bass and forward mids.



I'm not sure that particular combination is represented in this group of earphones.
My feelings on each as succinctly as I could put them are:


BGVP DM5, - quite mid forward (particularly upper mids in the vocal registers).  These lack a bit of the bass extension of others here but do have a nice low rumble when called upon, but the mid-bass is way less spectacular than the K3 or the F9.  Very comfortable and a very pleasant signature without adjustment.
Plus - great sound signature out of the box without some stray peak in an odd location.
Minus - Mid bass is less refined than others on this list.

Magaosi K3 - A full step above everything else on the list. These have a coherency to their sound that just isnt normally found at this price point and a really balanced signature.  They are mid forward but are just shy of having the bass punch you are looking for.  Not that they are bass light, just that they are well in proportion to the rest of the signature and couldnt be considered bass heavy.
Plus - Best signature I've heard in a sub-$200 in ear.   Draws comparisons to the LZ-A4 and the SWIII.
Minus - cable could be a bit better but at $100 - this is nitpicking

Fiio F9,  - Similar to the Zs6 in sound with a prominent treble spike (albeit at a bit lower frequency so even more annoying at times).  Reacts well to EQ and has a very listenable shallow V shaped signature.   Not as mid centric as the K3 or DM5 but a comfortable long session user once tuned a bit.
Plus - Well composed sound signature with good balance of mid to bass without a pronounced mid-bass hump.
Minus - 7kHz spike really cannot easily be ignored and must be adjusted for.

TFZ series 2 - similar to the DM5 in that the sub-bass is not super extended, but it does have a bit of rumble to balance the profile out.  Mids are the highlight and it does vocals with an ease that isnt present in the Zs6.  Treble is well behaved but again not super extended and it loses a bit of crispness on cymbals due to the roll-off at the top end.  
Plus - Vocals oriented sound signature good for long listening sessions
Minus - could use a bit more bass and a bit more extension on both ends

For sake of fair comparison;

Zs6 - Very good bass extension but well proportioned to the rest of the signature, a slight mid-bass hump that bleeds into the lower mids although not nearly as pronounced as a lot of other budget earphones.  Upper mids take a back seat to treble which is over-stated and can become sibilant without some tuning efforts. 
Plus - Extension on both ends 
Minus - control at the upper end

For me the order would be K3, DM5, F9, TFZs2, Zs6 if I were purchasing them today.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Damm the resistors I will be getting have these values
> 
> 
> Guess I am gonna have to use weird combination of these.


The low value resistor sets the output impedance, you want something around 2 or less for low coloration.
Ratio between resistors sets the attenuation factor, so you could use 22+2 for example.


And if anyone else is playing along here and wondering why you should buy the iFi product if you can afford it: build quality and manufacturing tolerances are on another level compared to DIY stuff


----------



## Superluc

young59 said:


> I am looking for DAC+Amp to connect to my laptop not a DAP.


I don't know if what you can build may be better, but it's a DAP that can be used also as a USB DAC or standalone AMP.
You can also eventually do a mod to it, but at least you can start with something ready-made and portable, for a fair price.


----------



## vector84

Superluc said:


> I don't know if what you can build may be better, but it's a DAP that can be used also as a USB DAC or standalone AMP.
> You can also eventually do a mod to it, but at least you can start with something ready-made and portable, for a fair price.


Doesn't the Zishan Z1 have like 100 ohms output impedance?  Great for pairing with a ZS6, really not great for a ZS5?


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> Doesn't the Zishan Z1 have like 100 ohms output impedance?  Great for pairing with a ZS6, really not great for a ZS5?


Yes, but my point is that, before try to create something all by himself, it can be better to buy a thing like that, more easy to mod.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 14, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Yes, but my point is that, before try to create something all by himself, it can be better to buy a thing like that, more easy to mod.


Oh, I see where you're coming from now. Yeah, DIY DAC+AMP builds are pretty far out of the scope of this thread.
(@young59 you might need to find some more DIY focused forums for that)

I just meant that he's probably going to want the voltage divider anyway so probably best to start there especially with most of the parts in hand already.


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> I just meant that he's probably going to want the voltage divider anyway


Of course, i was wrong to omit it in the first place ( i wasn't thinking specifically about the ZS5 ), but the earphone used can also not be for forever.
We don't know the budget, but a cheap Zishan plus an iFi Ear Buddy just seem an easier choice. Then the Ear Buddy can be used for other IEMs, or the Zishan eventually upgraded with better components. 
Overestimate their own capability may compromise the results.


----------



## young59

Thanks @Superluc  and @vector84 
Yeah I know I cannot match the quality of a actual machine production product with my diy hand soldered creations.But I really want to get into the audiophile realm but right now diying is my only way.And if Zishan Z1 can be used as a DAC with a pc will definitely look into it.


----------



## Wiljen

JayceOoi said:


> Great deal alert...
> 
> KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - USAUDIO2
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html
> ...



says promotion code is not valid on ZS6.  Tried all 3 colors - no go.


----------



## vector84

Wiljen said:


> says promotion code is not valid on ZS6.  Tried all 3 colors - no go.


Try asking in the Gearbest thread, George is usually quite responsive and there's some very recent posts about the ZS6 code having problems.

The ZS5 is country limited though, that info is also in the Gearbest thread.


----------



## Kerkyboi

JayceOoi said:


> Great deal alert...
> 
> KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - USAUDIO2
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html
> ...



This just added fuel to the fire. codes checked out for me. Zs5 doesn't work though. says it doesn't work for your country. (thailand)


----------



## tworule

Kerkyboi said:


> This just added fuel to the fire. codes checked out for me. Zs5 doesn't work though. says it doesn't work for your country. (thailand)


Got blck zs6.


----------



## -sandro-

what's more balanced the zse or the es3?


----------



## Superluc

-sandro- said:


> what's more balanced the zse or the es3?


ZSE


----------



## Fox2twenty

M1cro said:


> Hello,I'm thinking about KZ earphones, but I don't know ES3 or ZS5? What would you suggest? Or even another model? I would use them for listening to jazz/pop/soul/rock, but also wondering to buy the bluetooth wire to use them in the gym.


I have and like both. ES3 has more bass and less Soundstage. Otoh, ZS5 has a little less bass but a larger Soundstage and more treble.

I listen to both with foam.. Here is a pic with ES3 and New Bees foams..


----------



## chathurai

hello friends currently im have pair of original IE80, im looking for more detailed(budget) iem,
wich one is the best baldoor e100 , KZ ZST PRO, KZ ZS6


----------



## kokakolia

chathurai said:


> hello friends currently im have pair of original IE80, im looking for more detailed(budget) iem,
> wich one is the best baldoor e100 , KZ ZST PRO, KZ ZS6



What's wrong with the IE80!? It's not exactly a budget IEM! Do you really expect a $20 KZ to sound better?

Well, it looks like the ZS6 is the most detailed out of the bunch (from reading these forums). So that could be the answer you're looking for.

Me personally, I wouldn't want to touch the ZS6 with a 10-foot pole. I read that the treble is way too sharp, almost sibilant.

I bought the ZSE for that matter, but it doesn't have the reputation for being detailed.

So don't listen to me!

...But the ZS6 is your best bet.


----------



## TJK81

Hello guys,
i noticed, that on the GB and AE appears two different packaging of the ZS5's.
One with "ZS5" title on left upper corner (red one).
Second with paper under the transparent plastic cover (without the letter in upper left corner).
I have the second one. Actually revision 2.
Is the first package rev.1 and second package rev.2.
Can you guys, owning the ZS5, confirm it?


----------



## zentro

JayceOoi said:


> Great deal alert...
> 
> KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - USAUDIO2
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html
> ...


damn you,i was perfectly fine with my zst but i couldnt resist,so a black zs6 pair is on the way


----------



## vector84

TJK81 said:


> Hello guys,
> i noticed, that on the GB and AE appears two different packaging of the ZS5's.
> One with "ZS5" title on left upper corner (red one).
> Second with paper under the transparent plastic cover (without the letter in upper left corner).
> ...


Sadly no.

I have two pairs of grey v1s, both came with the paper cover.
I have one pair of blue v1s, it came with the plastic only cover.

No idea if it relates to color, or anything else, that's just what I've got on hand, but based on that I would tend to think it's not v1 vs v2.


----------



## TheVortex

What are the ZS5 and ZS6 like for gaming? As in imaging and sound stage? Also is there proof that the ZS6 has a crossover inside of it?


----------



## TJK81

vector84 said:


> Sadly no.



Bad news. I'm thinking about purchasing another pair of the ZS5's hoping to get rev.1 to compare with my rev.2.
Guess no chance to recieve the particulair pair.


----------



## Adide

I bought the blue ZS5 without mic from NiceHCK on Sep 1st sales and got v1. Maybe one can ask the seller what batch they are currently selling.
I was also thinking that maybe no mic versions are in lower demand and perhaps that's why it's still old stock but I'm speculating.

Regarding the IEM itself it's a step up all around compared to ZS3 but as I feared it doesn't block noise as well and since I'm using IEMs only while commuting with noisy subway  (only full size when indoors) it kind of lost purpose a bit. I will play with various tips maybe I can get decent isolation after all.
For me treble presentation is very good with ZS5 and borderline hot but without crossing (I see myself as rather treble resilient) so I can see why ZS6 which has even more emphasis in the 8-10 khz region might annoy a good deal of people.

Btw I don't think I've seen that answered - is ZS6 leaking sound and how is isolation in noisy environments? Same as ZS5 or worse due to the opened back?


----------



## kramercosmo

So i have ZS3 and ZS5, i love the ZS3 but they don't fit me at all(in the ear). ZS5 is very good(in the ear) but too much treble.

How is ES3, Less treble than ZS5? Is it more like ZS3 or ZS5 in the ear?


----------



## Keller2

kramercosmo said:


> So i have ZS3 and ZS5, i love the ZS3 but they don't fit me at all(in the ear). ZS5 is very good(in the ear) but too much treble.
> 
> How is ES3, Less treble than ZS5? Is it more like ZS3 or ZS5 in the ear?



It's more like the ZS5 in the ear. it sounds more like the ZS5, except it has the ZS3 bass and less energetic treble.


----------



## Viber (Oct 14, 2017)

TheVortex said:


> What are the ZS5 and ZS6 like for gaming? As in imaging and sound stage? Also is there proof that the ZS6 has a crossover inside of it?



If it's 100% gaming and 0% music then i would buy the KZ ATR, their imaging abilities are leagues beyond their price.
If it's a 50-50 (like playing GTA, where there's radio stations are involved) then i would take the ZS3 if i want a bassier-smoother sound or the ZS5 if i want a brighter,more detailed sound (and they are more versatile because you can mod them).

ZSE will give you a more open sound because of their design. Their sound is more sparkly and exciting than the ATR and ZS3.  I enjoy them quite a bit when i watch movies.

ZS6 is the best product and has the best sound reproduction overall.

 Don't expect a big soundstage out of any of them.


----------



## kramercosmo

Keller2 said:


> It's more like the ZS5 in the ear. it sounds more like the ZS5, except it has the ZS3 bass and less energetic treble.



Thank you, need to order one. Could be something for me.


----------



## Superluc

Viber said:


> If it's 100% gaming and 0% music then i would buy the KZ ATR, their imaging abilities are leagues beyond their price.
> If it's a 50-50 (like playing GTA, where there's radio stations are involved) then i would take the ZS3 if i want a bassier-smoother sound or the ZS5 if i want a brighter,more detailed sound (and they are more versatile because you can mod them).
> ZSE will give you a more open sound because of their design. Their sound is more sparkly and exciting than the ATR and ZS3.  I enjoy them quite a bit when i watch movies.


I could add that, to me, microphonics and isolation are also something to take into account. The ZS3 can be used with an upgrade cable and is more isolating than the ZS5.


----------



## wastan

young59 said:


> I am looking for DAC+Amp to connect to my laptop not a DAP.



Zishan Z1 does function as dac/amp for computers as well as dap


----------



## young59

wastan said:


> Zishan Z1 does function as dac/amp for computers as well as dap


Ok thanks and what about the Z2?


----------



## eaglesgift

wastan said:


> Zishan Z1 does function as dac/amp for computers as well as dap


But can it do both together or just one or the other? I mean can it be a DAC and an amp at the same time?


----------



## TJK81

Adide said:


> Maybe one can ask the seller what batch they are currently selling.



I wrote same seller maybe 1,5month ago. They respond me, they have both batches and will dispatch it randomly.


----------



## filltos

TJK81 said:


> Hello guys,
> i noticed, that on the GB and AE appears two different packaging of the ZS5's.
> One with "ZS5" title on left upper corner (red one).
> Second with paper under the transparent plastic cover (without the letter in upper left corner).
> ...


V1 on the left, V2 on the right.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 15, 2017)

TJK81 said:


> I wrote same seller maybe 1,5month ago. They respond me, they have both batches and will dispatch it randomly.


In all fairness, at least NiceHCK actually responds to such inquiries in such an honest fashion - there's just no way to tell them apart as far as we know.


filltos said:


> V1 on the left, V2 on the right.


As I noted previously, the front cover on my v1s came in both variants.

All of three my v1s did indeed come in the box depicting an ear not a sax though - no idea if this is a definitive sign though.


There's also some serial numbers on the bar codes that take the form of XXXX-8335 and A-C-XX-XX where C is a letter and X is a number.  If the boxes aren't a distinctive feature, maybe someone with contacts at KZ could ask if there's a way to identify them by serial number.


----------



## maxxevv

filltos said:


> V1 on the left, V2 on the right.



I have the V2, the packaging is the same as indicated here, the one on the right.


----------



## zozito

filltos said:


> V1 on the left, V2 on the right.



I have v1 and v2, v1 like the one on the left, v2 like that of the right.


----------



## vector84

While it sure would be nice if you could identify them by the box, I wouldn't entirely count on it without significant numbers of people weighing in on it... that sax box has been used by KZ for quite a while now for a variety of IEMs.


----------



## Adide

My ZS5 v1 came in the package on the right (sax on the back). As already stated it seems there's no correlation with the packaging.


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 15, 2017)

Thanks for responce, guys.
I wrote to the boys from Gearbest whether they are able to influence the dispatch of the particular box.
We shall see...


----------



## jaydm99 (Oct 15, 2017)

filltos said:


> V1 on the left, V2 on the right.


But I thought peeking at the nozzle is the right indicator? I can only see 1 BA (1 circular thing) on mine but I have the box on the right.


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 15, 2017)

Yep, Vector84 mentioned that. But IMO if there is any chance to recieve box with red ZS5 title (the left one) in the front side of the box, I'll probably recieve v1.
It's really luxury to have two pairs of the v2.


----------



## Viber

Superluc said:


> I could add that, to me, microphonics and isolation are also something to take into account. The ZS3 can be used with an upgrade cable and is more isolating than the ZS5.



ZS3 are more isolating than anything to be honest. You can even disconnect them from their wires and use them as pretty effective ear plugs.
I bought an extra pair just so i would always have something that i can use in noisy environments.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 15, 2017)

Viber said:


> ZS3 are more isolating than anything to be honest. You can even disconnect them from their wires and use them as pretty effective ear plugs.
> I bought an extra pair just so i would always have something that i can use in noisy environments.


I could attest to that. They're really effective as ear plugs, too, due to its almost custom IEM-like fit. The ZS3 makes my neighbor's dog (goodness, their dog has a loud, annoyingly startling bark) less annoying. 

Anyway, regarding KZ's aftermarket cables, I recently bought their latest SPC cable (the smoke-colored one; the one they call "High Purity OFC cable"). Does this new cable less prone to turning green/oxidation unlike the earlier white v1 SPC cable? My v1 SPC recently started to turn green, maybe because it's rainy season here and hence the air became more humid.


----------



## High on Ketamine

M1cro said:


> Hello,I'm thinking about KZ earphones, but I don't know ES3 or ZS5? What would you suggest? Or even another model? I would use them for listening to jazz/pop/soul/rock, but also wondering to buy the bluetooth wire to use them in the gym.


 Both are the best KZs i tried. I slightly prefer the zs5. Its just more natural and while the bass is slightly less full than ES3 i think its overall more satisfying because the mids are more prominent and the bass really shines when its needed to. 
Besides sound I find overall the zs5 more confortable. Yes they fit slightly less deep and secure but the ES3 has a kina weird shape which is too big for me for longer periods of wearing them. They need to go deep into your ear and because of that the shell hit my ear unconfortably. But luckily you can buy comply tips and now I prefer ES3's comfort . In short you cant go wrong with either one


----------



## monocats

Guys, any advice on how to disassemble the KZ ZS5? 

My toddler did something to the left piece, probably sucked on it. Now the sound from the left is distorted. I would like to open it up and have a look if it could be repaired.

Any tips?


----------



## Sylmar

monocats said:


> Guys, any advice on how to disassemble the KZ ZS5?
> 
> My toddler did something to the left piece, probably sucked on it. Now the sound from the left is distorted. I would like to open it up and have a look if it could be repaired.
> 
> Any tips?


Put it in some rice and let it rest for a few days to get rid of the moisture. Might work.


----------



## Keller2

Sylmar said:


> Put it in some rice and let it rest for a few days to get rid of the moisture. Might work.


Putting stuff in rice and hoping for the best is something you do when you don't want to put in any real effort in fixing it.


Here's some tips :
Open the ZS5. You can do that by applying heat to the face plate and then pulling it off. Careful not to break the joint studs.
Check if everything looks to be in place. Any corroded wire / etc. If nothing looks broken you can soak the part with the driver in 99% alcohol. 
That would displace any other liquid and dry faster.
Let it sit for a bit then dry it off with a hairdryer or hot plate for 5 to 10 mins.

If it still doesn't work you've likely got driver damage.


----------



## Sylmar

Keller2 said:


> Putting stuff in rice and hoping for the best is something you do when you don't want to put in any real effort in fixing it.




To me it would be preferable BEFORE having to open an IEM.


----------



## Keller2

Sylmar said:


> To me it would be preferable BEFORE having to open an IEM.


Of course it would. But that doesn't mean you'll get any results. 
Putting stuff in rice only makes sense when you know that the item you want to fix isn't damaged and you havent run electricity thorugh it.

Once you've confirmed that it's damaged putting stuff near rice or silica gel or what have you is an exercise in futility. 
It's easier and requires little to no effort. That's why people like it as a solution.

It would also be much more effective to just put it in a hot place.


----------



## Mallo

About foam tips did you recommend the cheap aliexpress products (maybe fragile?) or better to go with more expensive ones?


----------



## Sylmar

Keller2 said:


> Of course it would. But that doesn't mean you'll get any results.
> Putting stuff in rice only makes sense when you know that the item you want to fix isn't damaged and you havent run electricity thorugh it.
> 
> Once you've confirmed that it's damaged putting stuff near rice or silica gel or what have you is an exercise in futility.
> ...


Point is there are a few possibilities without having to open it which can also lead to further damage, especially since KZ uses loads of glue. I don't get why the easier option would be worse, you can always decide in opening the IEM after when you really need to repair. 

Anyway, there are options.


----------



## filltos

Mallo said:


> About foam tips did you recommend the cheap aliexpress products (maybe fragile?) or better to go with more expensive ones?


Just try foams from Ali, T400 likes and you will be satisfied.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Wiljen said:


> Both the F9 and the Zs6 share a hotter than normal treble and both need a bit of EQ or foams to help cut that.  Once that is done the Fiio has a bit better upper mids and a better soundstage than the Zs6.  Bass is probably a wash between the two as both are very good.  Without tuning, both can be a bit sibilant with female vocals.  The other big win for the F9 is the fit.  Fiio nailed the ergonomics where as the Zs6 will be too big for some and not comfortable for others.


Hey,
Gearbest just refunded me the money for the  zs6 I purchased at a discount without any explanation. I am on a tight budget and will only spend as low as possible for getting great sound quality. I will only purchase the f9 if they are substantial improvement over the zs6 in terms of sound quality. What is your opinion on the matter? Accessories and comfort doesn't matter much to me.


----------



## Fahim Foysal

dbaker1981 said:


> I wouldn’t say fatiguing but they are bright. Very clear and detailed. I must say they are probably my favorite iem I own right now. I enjoy them more than my IT03 by a wide margin. The F9’s I’m talking about.


How much of a improvement are they in terms of sound quality over the zs6?


----------



## Fahim Foysal

Wiljen said:


> I'm not sure that particular combination is represented in this group of earphones.
> My feelings on each as succinctly as I could put them are:
> 
> 
> ...


Are you talking about the k3 hd or pro? I read here in headfi that the f9 has better imaging and instrument separation


----------



## themindfreak

Seems like KZ secretly released a blue version of the ZSE. (Randomly found this on the KZ Official Store)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...id=b000a5fb-d699-4ed4-a2ed-f04575307d83&tpp=1


----------



## Art385

Jay Magaling said:


> But I thought peeking at the nozzle is the right indicator? I can only see 1 BA (1 circular thing) on mine but I have the box on the right.



The box on the right is ZS5 v2. I for quite some time thought that I have v1 becouse I could not see second BA. But when I used really strong light source and after many minutes of adjusting I could see that there is indeed 2 circles inside though they are quite deeper in the nozzle then I saw on pics that are posted in this thread. I think that QC is to blame becouse my ZS5 are nowhere near trebles cannons :E Yes they are sharp on silicon tips, but on KZ black sponges + rubber ring on nozzle to secure them tightly ZS5 are just amazing for the price. I have version without the mic and source i connect them to AIM SC808 (4xAD797&AD827) through extender. Though they play really nice and smooth form hp-out of redmi note 4x


----------



## jaydm99 (Oct 15, 2017)

Art385 said:


> The box on the right is ZS5 v2. I for quite some time thought that I have v1 becouse I could not see second BA. But when I used really strong light source and after many minutes of adjusting I could see that there is indeed 2 circles inside though they are quite deeper in the nozzle then I saw on pics that are posted in this thread. I think that QC is to blame becouse my ZS5 are nowhere near trebles cannons :E Yes they are sharp on silicon tips, but on KZ black sponges + rubber ring on nozzle to secure them tightly ZS5 are just amazing for the price. I have version without the mic and source i connect them to AIM SC808 (4xAD797&AD827) through extender. Though they play really nice and smooth form hp-out of redmi note 4x


Same here. I dont have any issue, treble is not ear-piercing to me even though I could be a basshead sometime. But I do miss the bass from the ZS3, I was having issue with seal on the ZS5 with medium tips, turns out that I need big tips for the ZS5 (M for ZS3). I'm using a Redmi Note 3 as a "dap". The ZS5 made me ditched Viper4Android, or at least depend a lot less on it. I now only use Spectrum Extension (1.0), Dynamic System (Extreme Headphones, 0% bass), AnalogX (Extreme) on V4A.


----------



## TimeSnow

ZS5 V2 owner... no issues with the treble... like all IEMS, headphones, etc., it comes down to the recording... some are super bright, others are dark... that's why God (I assume) evented EQ.


----------



## peskypesky

themindfreak said:


> Seems like KZ secretly released a blue version of the ZSE. (Randomly found this on the KZ Official Store)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...id=b000a5fb-d699-4ed4-a2ed-f04575307d83&tpp=1


ooh! MUCH nicer looking!


----------



## vector84

Not that I'm trying to encourage people to destroy things...

But I noticed elsewhere there's a bunch of chatter about "fixing" the ZS5 v2 by cutting out one of the BAs - advanced version involves desoldering one and ripping it out physically, but almost as effective to just cut the leads to one of them.

Doubt this would work right on the ZS6 due to the crossover, but thanks to some dedicated folks around here, we know that the ZS5 ought to at least continue to function on a basic level even after such things have been done to it 


So if you have a v2 and *really* can't stand that treble spike ...


----------



## Art385

vector84 said:


> Not that I'm trying to encourage people to destroy things...
> 
> But I noticed elsewhere there's a bunch of chatter about "fixing" the ZS5 v2 by cutting out one of the BAs - advanced version involves desoldering one and ripping it out physically, but almost as effective to just cut the leads to one of them.
> 
> ...


Did someone measured the ZS5 v2 and confirmed that they are indeed 4 ohm like ZS5 v1 and not 16 ohm like ZS6 or it is just pure speculation? Because if nobody checked it you could encourage someone to actually destroying their set  I've read the last 200 pages of this thread and searched on the internet and found nothing on ZS5 v2 beside pure speculation of peoples that have ZS5 v1 and never heard V2 or ZS6 and I take this kind of opinions with huge grain of salt.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 15, 2017)

Art385 said:


> Did someone measured the ZS5 v2 and confirmed that they are indeed 4 ohm like ZS5 v1 and not 16 ohm like ZS6 or it is just pure speculation? Because if nobody checked it you could encourage someone to actually destroying their set  I've read the last 200 pages of this thread and searched on the internet and found nothing on ZS5 v2 beside pure speculation of peoples that have ZS5 v1 and never heard V2 or ZS6 and I take this kind of opinions with huge grain of salt.


I don't own a v2 to confirm, I'm just relaying something rather interesting that I was reading elsewhere...

I haven't found anyone that's posted pictures or a detailed writeup though... just stuff like "my friend ripped out a BA from his, now it sounds as good as my v1"  which I agree strongly should be taken with a *huge* grain of salt.


PS: You should be able to check for the presence of a crossover with just a multimeter - a reading close to 4 ohms DC would strongly suggest the lack of a crossover, while a reading closer to 14 would suggest the presence of one.


----------



## Wiljen

Fahim Foysal said:


> Are you talking about the k3 hd or pro? I read here in headfi that the f9 has better imaging and instrument separation



I have the HD and a co-worker has the Pro so some of both.  I like the HD a bit better than the pro but it is splitting hairs.  I wouldn't rank the F9 above either of them.


----------



## Superluc

peskypesky said:


> ooh! MUCH nicer looking!


Not with that red and noisy cable... 

It's a shame that they dint build this Special version with upgradable cable. It would be instant buy to me, even if i'm waiting for the ZS6.


----------



## Art385

vector84 said:


> I don't own a v2 to confirm, I'm just relaying something rather interesting that I was reading elsewhere...
> 
> I haven't found anyone that's posted pictures or a detailed writeup though... just stuff like "my friend ripped out a BA from his, now it sounds as good as my v1"  which I agree strongly should be taken with a *huge* grain of salt.
> 
> ...


I have multimeter somewhere in the garage. If I found it I will check the impedance of ZS5 v2


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Art385 said:


> The box on the right is ZS5 v2. I for quite some time thought that I have v1 becouse I could not see second BA. But when I used really strong light source and after many minutes of adjusting I could see that there is indeed 2 circles inside though they are quite deeper in the nozzle then I saw on pics that are posted in this thread. I think that QC is to blame becouse my ZS5 are nowhere near trebles cannons :E Yes they are sharp on silicon tips, but on KZ black sponges + rubber ring on nozzle to secure them tightly ZS5 are just amazing for the price. I have version without the mic and source i connect them to AIM SC808 (4xAD797&AD827) through extender. Though they play really nice and smooth form hp-out of redmi note 4x



If you only see one circle but it's not centered you definitely have a v2. The v1 BA is obviously only one. I ran into the same issue and someone explained it to me.


----------



## wastan

Keller2 said:


> Of course it would. But that doesn't mean you'll get any results.
> Putting stuff in rice only makes sense when you know that the item you want to fix isn't damaged and you havent run electricity thorugh it.
> 
> Once you've confirmed that it's damaged putting stuff near rice or silica gel or what have you is an exercise in futility.
> ...




Rice is incredibly inefficient as a dessicant. It's effectiveness in drying out electronics is mostly urban legend.


----------



## filltos

Art385 said:


> Did someone measured the ZS5 v2 and confirmed that they are indeed 4 ohm like ZS5 v1 and not 16 ohm like ZS6 or it is just pure speculation? Because if nobody checked it you could encourage someone to actually destroying their set  I've read the last 200 pages of this thread and searched on the internet and found nothing on ZS5 v2 beside pure speculation of peoples that have ZS5 v1 and never heard V2 or ZS6 and I take this kind of opinions with huge grain of salt.


I did not any measurements, but when i plug V2 version after V1 version, i need to decrease volume almost twice.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 15, 2017)

themindfreak said:


> Seems like KZ secretly released a blue version of the ZSE. (Randomly found this on the KZ Official Store)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...id=b000a5fb-d699-4ed4-a2ed-f04575307d83&tpp=1


Nice. It looks cooler with that blue shell (not that the original ZSE isn't cool enough; in fact it's one of KZ's cooler designs IMO). Would definitely get this once it becomes available on my local stores.

Anyway, I already asked this before, but my queries seemed to be ignored.  Regarding KZ's aftermarket cables, I recently bought their latest SPC cable last week (the smoke-colored one; the one they call "High Purity OFC cable"). Does this new cable less prone to turning green/oxidation unlike the earlier white v1 SPC cable (or probably the v2 too? Haven't tried the v2 much yet)? My v1 SPC recently started to turn green, maybe because it's rainy season here and hence the air became more humid.


----------



## Superluc

mono-type said:


> I recently bought their latest SPC cable last week (the smoke-colored one; the one they call "High Purity OFC cable"). Does this new cable less prone to turning green/oxidation unlike the earlier white v1 SPC cable?


They said that is "oxigen free". At now mine is still on stock condition, need to wait more for be sure.


----------



## vector84

mono-type said:


> Nice. It looks cooler with that blue shell. Would definitely get this once it becomes available on my local stores.
> 
> Anyway, I already asked this before, but my queries seemed to be ignored.  Regarding KZ's aftermarket cables, I recently bought their latest SPC cable last week (the smoke-colored one; the one they call "High Purity OFC cable"). Does this new cable less prone to turning green/oxidation unlike the earlier white v1 SPC cable (or probably the v2 too? Haven't tried the v2 much yet)? My v1 SPC recently started to turn green, maybe because it's rainy season here and hence the air became more humid.


Pretty sure most of the greening was taking place over the course of a few months at least...

I'm inclined to think mostly they haven't been around long enough for anyone to tell one way or the other.  I ordered one pretty soon after they popped up and I've only had it for about a week .  As a few people have already mentioned, if it does happen, it will likely be far less noticeable beneath the much darker sheath.


----------



## High on Ketamine

mono-type said:


> I could attest to that. They're really effective as ear plugs, too, due to its almost custom IEM-like fit. The ZS3 makes my neighbor's dog (goodness, their dog has a loud, annoyingly startling bark) less annoying.
> 
> Anyway, regarding KZ's aftermarket cables, I recently bought their latest SPC cable (the smoke-colored one; the one they call "High Purity OFC cable"). Does this new cable less prone to turning green/oxidation unlike the earlier white v1 SPC cable? My v1 SPC recently started to turn green, maybe because it's rainy season here and hence the air became more humid.



What impact has this new cable on the sound? Im currently using the silver cable from KZ but im still looking for a better one because the cable quality really has an effect on the sound. Im looking for something more full and balanced than the stock ones, and with a better connector...


----------



## High on Ketamine

Jay Magaling said:


> Same here. I dont have any issue, treble is not ear-piercing to me even though I could be a basshead sometime. But I do miss the bass from the ZS3, I was having issue with seal on the ZS5 with medium tips, turns out that I need big tips for the ZS5 (M for ZS3). I'm using a Redmi Note 3 as a "dap". The ZS5 made me ditched Viper4Android, or at least depend a lot less on it. I now only use Spectrum Extension (1.0), Dynamic System (Extreme Headphones, 0% bass), AnalogX (Extreme) on V4A.



V4A FTW . I use it with all my iems including zs5.


----------



## Wiljen

wastan said:


> Rice is incredibly inefficient as a dessicant. It's effectiveness in drying out electronics is mostly urban legend.



Talk to your pharmacist.  Every box of pills that comes in when they restock has a big dessicant pack in it and they will usually gladly give you a handful of them if you ask them to save them for you.  Once you have a few, you can put them on a cookie sheet and set your oven at 150 and put them in it for an hour and it will pull the moisture out and you can reuse them.


----------



## jaydm99

filltos said:


> I did not any measurements, but when i plug V2 version after V1 version, i need to decrease volume almost twice.


I listen to almost the same volume level on the zs5 v2 and zs3(18 ohms)


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 16, 2017)

Regarding output volume of the earphones. I have V2 (not the german missile from WW2) ZS3, ES3, ZST. They are aprox. on the same output sound pressure.
Only ES3 is let's say about 2-3dB louder then the rest (in my foobar player), because of the slight bump in the subbass and than something around 3-5 or 6 kHz.
But non of these are twice louder than the other.


----------



## tworule

There was an instruction how to insert kz cables. Could someone point me that? My right zs3 does not work any more . Could be cable related. I have silver and stock cables.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 16, 2017)

tworule said:


> There was an instruction how to insert kz cables. Could someone point me that? My right zs3 does not work any more . Could be cable related. I have silver and stock cables.


It's on @Slater's sig: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067



High on Ketamine said:


> What impact has this new cable on the sound? Im currently using the silver cable from KZ but im still looking for a better one because the cable quality really has an effect on the sound. Im looking for something more full and balanced than the stock ones, and with a better connector...


If you want a better connector then you should get this instead. Regarding the sound on the new cable, to be honest I can't say much ATM, maybe because hearing is a subjective thing. I just bought them so I could see if these cables wouldn't turn green/less prone to oxidation unlike the earlier white SPC cable which is starting to turn green on mine. I dunno if the SPC v2 cable (the one I linked here) could turn green over time, since I also recently got that cable along with the new smoke-colored cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

As I have the older ZS3, it may be different for the shiny version, but the L/R markings face the Left/Right written on the IEM shell.  Just listened to them while posting to verify.  These IEMs really don't get enough use from me, and I really do hope the ZS3 hybrid talk is true as I love the comfort.


----------



## tworule

mono-type said:


> It's on @Slater's sig: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067
> 
> If you want a better connector then you should get this instead. Regarding the sound on the new cable, to be honest I can't say much ATM, maybe because hearing is a subjective thing. I just bought them so I could see if these cables wouldn't turn green/less prone to oxidation unlike the earlier white SPC cable which is starting to turn green on mine. I dunno if the SPC v2 cable (the one I linked here) could turn green over time, since I also recently got that cable along with the new smoke-colored cable.



changed cables and check the l-r signs. but no, the right iem does not produce any sound. I hope gearbest deals with it nicely. it has been only 2 weeks.


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 16, 2017)

Gearbest offer is up again !

KZ ZS6 Custom-built Hybrid HiFi In-ear Earphones

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html?lkid=10690141

29.32 $ with the code:4ALL5

50 pcs for promo

(As at 12:45 GMT time. )

Edit: Just tried, somehow it says "Code does not exist".


----------



## snip3r77

maxxevv said:


> Gearbest offer is up again !
> 
> KZ ZS6 Custom-built Hybrid HiFi In-ear Earphones
> 
> ...



With the hot treble, I'd wait for ZS7 or Zs6v2


----------



## Carrow

That code apparently 'does not exist', let me know if it starts working again!


----------



## youngarthur

Just got my KZ ZS6, plugged into the iPhone,and,amazing for the price. I do stop and wonder why I bought the iSINE20/M300, when I can get 75% there for a fraction of the price.Will I sell the more expensive ones?. No, but I will think very, very carefully before spending more than $100!!.


----------



## Carrow

youngarthur said:


> Just got my KZ ZS6, plugged into the iPhone,and,amazing for the price. I do stop and wonder why I bought the iSINE20/M300, when I can get 75% there for a fraction of the price.Will I sell the more expensive ones?. No, but I will think very, very carefully before spending more than $100!!.



Hella nice time to be part of the budget audiophile scene, right?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> I'm not sure that particular combination is represented in this group of earphones.
> My feelings on each as succinctly as I could put them are:
> 
> 
> ...


Nice review.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Carrow said:


> Hella nice time to be part of the budget audiophile scene, right?


Super nice.


----------



## AxelCloris

Cleaned up several posts. Please keep the conversation within the posting guidelines.


----------



## tworule

tworule said:


> changed cables and check the l-r signs. but no, the right iem does not produce any sound. I hope gearbest deals with it nicely. it has been only 2 weeks.


Anybody knows how i Can make the right ear piece work again? There is no sound ....


----------



## Khanmein

Recently, I purchased KZ ZST PRO without the microphone, can I grab the replacement cable that came with microphone & will it work? Any alternative suggestion? Thanks.


----------



## vector84

tworule said:


> Anybody knows how i Can make the right ear piece work again? There is no sound ....


Unfortunately if you've tried multiple cables, chances are decent that the problem is internal.

There are a few posts floating around about similar issues - the most frequent cause that I've seen has been a solder joint coming apart on the inside of the connector.  If that's the case, it isn't a terribly difficult fix if you're comfortable with the use of a heat gun and a soldering iron, but if not... yeah, not much else you can do.

You said it's only been two weeks right?  I would think your best bet would be to try to work it out with the seller - that short a time period with no obvious user inflicted damage would make me think QC problem or damage during shipping.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 16, 2017)

KZ ZS6's arrived today, tip rolled till I was happy. First impressions were these are crispy up top but I find it gives them great air, bass is very good not bloated in any way lower mids a bit recessed, upper mids are there in spades. Will burn them in but these are a very energetic pair of iems. Probably my favourite KZ earphone so far and needless to say they look great in green


----------



## tworule

vector84 said:


> Unfortunately if you've tried multiple cables, chances are decent that the problem is internal.
> 
> There are a few posts floating around about similar issues - the most frequent cause that I've seen has been a solder joint coming apart on the inside of the connector.  If that's the case, it isn't a terribly difficult fix if you're comfortable with the use of a heat gun and a soldering iron, but if not... yeah, not much else you can do.
> 
> You said it's only been two weeks right?  I would think your best bet would be to try to work it out with the seller - that short a time period with no obvious user inflicted damage would make me think QC problem or damage during shipping.


Thanks. I already contacted gearbest . I have no soldering skills


----------



## vector84

tworule said:


> Thanks. I already contacted gearbest . I have no soldering skills


Well, a hairdryer and some wire glue might manage to work in a pinch, but I would still strongly suggest not doing anything like that.  Or at least not until you've worked out the situation with gearbest.

Now if they tell you to trash them (which has been my experience a few times now with GB and BG on damaged items) then I suppose there would be far less harm in trying to crack it open, even if you don't expect to be successful at doing anything other than breaking it further.


----------



## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> My KZ ED2 just came in the mail today
> 
> The SQ is definitely on par with what everybody says about them, they're overall a good sounding IEM and they do everything just right. Not perfect, but just right. Bass has just the right amount of tightness (more sub-bass than mid-bass), mids are detailed and clear, and the treble is bright and crisp without sounding too splashy or overdone like the KZ ED9. They also sound quite loud on my phone compared to my ATE-S and HDS3, which is a good indication that they don't need much power to drive them. Overall the sound is tamed and balanced but still forward sounding; it's a V-shaped sound signature done right at a low price point.
> 
> P.S. The packaging says it's the EDR1, is that just another name for the ED2?



Nice!

They are different than the ED2. Yours are the EDR1 (which are preferable to the ED2). The EDR2 (which are aluminum) are good too. I just prefer the EDR1 more (heavier, nicer looking, a little more v-shaped/punchier bass vs EDR2.

As you mentioned, they are a great all-arounder. Built like a tank (especially when bought without mic like you did), are dirt cheap, comfortable, and sound great for the price. Great as cheap gifts to introduce people to the world of ChiFi, great for kids/teens that are rough on electronics, etc. My only complaint is the gummy cable knots/tangles easily, but that's an issue with 95% of all KZs (and is really more of an issue with impatient kids/teens who use the Incredible Hulk method of untangling cables).


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> For the ZS6 around 75 ohms serial is ideal.
> 
> For the ZS5 you would want a voltage divider though, 16+1.5 (Ear Buddy) is what I use.
> 
> ...



Easiest would be to do it all inside of the shell, connected to the 2-pin connector inside of the shell.


----------



## ldo77

The more I listen the ZS5 with my Meizu Pro5, the more I think they pair very well : nice bass and almost no sibilance


----------



## vector84 (Oct 16, 2017)

Slater said:


> Easiest would be to do it all inside of the shell, connected to the 2-pin connector inside of the shell.


For a serial resistor that would certainly be very tidy, though soldering around plastic parts might scare some people off 


For a voltage divider though?  I thought it was generally preferable to not put a voltage divider involving such low resistance values at the end of a cable run as the cable run risks becoming a significant part of the divider circuit itself (potentially leading to channel mismatches, etc)?

Actually I'm not sure how true what I wrote above might or might not be... seems to me that the ZS5 (V1 at least) already comprises a pretty complex voltage division circuit on its own.  I'm certainly not confident enough in my ability to off the cuff predict the functioning of such a setup that I should be making such blanket claims.


----------



## Rilke

Is there anyone who bought the kz zs6 from Gearbest this weekend ? Did they shipped your orders ?

Anyway thanks to the dude who posted GB promo codes   it worked for me. Got the green ones for 26e shipping included.

These are going to be the endgame for me, at least till the end of next year ....


----------



## zentro

Rilke said:


> Is there anyone who bought the kz zs6 from Gearbest this weekend ? Did they shipped your orders ?
> 
> Anyway thanks to the dude who posted GB promo codes   it worked for me. Got the green ones for 26e shipping included.
> 
> These are going to be the endgame for me, at least till the end of next year ....



i ordered them two days ago,i have a tracking number but doesnt show up yet,you should wait a couple days and then check again

 btw the guy was JayceOoi


----------



## Slater

Rilke said:


> Is there anyone who bought the kz zs6 from Gearbest this weekend ? Did they shipped your orders ?
> 
> Anyway thanks to the dude who posted GB promo codes   it worked for me. Got the green ones for 26e shipping included.
> 
> These are going to be the endgame for me, at least till the end of next year ....



How did you get the 4ALL5 code to work? I can't get it to work at all. Keeps saying "_This Code does not exist. Please check again._"  :0(


----------



## bsoplinger

HungryPanda said:


> KZ ZS6's arrived today, tip rolled till I was happy.


Would you please list what tips you've decided on? I'm always curious about what other people found to be a good tip for any given IEM.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> How did you get the 4ALL5 code to work? I can't get it to work at all. Keeps saying "_This Code does not exist. Please check again._"  :0(


I just entered it on the shopping cart summary page. The one right before where you pick shipping method and payment method.

It could be a promo code of the 'first xxx today' style where once xxx quantity are ordered its dead until the next day? Otherwise I don't have a useful suggestion.


----------



## Rilke

zentro said:


> i ordered them two days ago,i have a tracking number but doesnt show up yet,you should wait a couple days and then check again
> 
> btw the guy was JayceOoi



Big up to JayceOoi ! You da real MVP 



Slater said:


> How did you get the 4ALL5 code to work? I can't get it to work at all. Keeps saying "_This Code does not exist. Please check again._"  :0(



When I first logged in the french Gearbest. The code didn't work as well . Then I logged in the english version of the website and the code did work ( yesterday ) And don't know if it will work for you, but you can give it a try


----------



## Spelaeus

Received my KZ zs6 from gearbest this past Saturday. It was a bit of a surprise, because my tracking information never actually updated and I was about ready to contact gearbest about it.


----------



## Fox2twenty

HungryPanda said:


> KZ ZS6's arrived today, tip rolled till I was happy. First impressions were these are crispy up top but I find it gives them great air, bass is very good not bloated in any way lower mids a bit recessed, upper mids are there in spades. Will burn them in but these are a very energetic pair of iems. Probably my favourite KZ earphone so far and needless to say they look great in green


Awesome impressions. Wish now I'd already gotten green.


----------



## groucho69

Rilke said:


> Is there anyone who bought the kz zs6 from Gearbest this weekend ? Did they shipped your orders ?
> 
> Anyway thanks to the dude who posted GB promo codes   it worked for me. Got the green ones for 26e shipping included.
> 
> These are going to be the endgame for me, at least till the end of next year ....



You're saying 11/11 will not temp you?


----------



## Rilke

groucho69 said:


> You're saying 11/11 will not temp you?


 
It will but not for audio gear ... I have to much passions going on ...  

I usually keep 1 product for 1 purpose . I already have a Philips Fidelio L2 for headphones.
Vido for earbuds ( I am mostly an earbuds guy ) . And Zs6 paired with fiio x1 ii  will complete the trinity. 
It's time to stop


----------



## Rilke (Oct 16, 2017)

edit : please help me erase this post


----------



## Fox2twenty

Rilke said:


> It will but not for audio gear ... I have to much passions going on ...
> 
> I usually keep 1 product for 1 purpose . I already have a Philips Fidelio L2 for headphones.
> Vido for earbuds ( I am mostly an earbuds guy ) . And Zs6 paired with fiio x1 ii  will complete the trinity.
> It's time to stop


Good choice


----------



## groucho69

Rilke said:


> It will but not for audio gear ... I have to much passions going on ...
> 
> I usually keep 1 product for 1 purpose . I already have a Philips Fidelio L2 for headphones.
> Vido for earbuds ( I am mostly an earbuds guy ) . And Zs6 paired with fiio x1 ii  will complete the trinity.
> It's time to stop



What is this strange word you speak? This stop? I do not know of its meaning.


----------



## HungryPanda

we cannot stop or Head-Fi would wither and die...................


----------



## Fox2twenty

HungryPanda said:


> we cannot stop or Head-Fi would wither and die...................


Hm. Touché


----------



## groucho69

Fox2twenty said:


> Hm. Touché



I am not touchy. Now stop saying that.


----------



## khighly

I just got a proper DAC and actual power into my ZS5v1's and HOLY MOLY where did those great mids come from?


----------



## Fox2twenty

khighly said:


> I just got a proper DAC and actual power into my ZS5v1's and HOLY MOLY where did those great mids come from?


Well then, I need to get back into portable amps.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

khighly said:


> I just got a proper DAC and actual power into my ZS5v1's and HOLY MOLY where did those great mids come from?



Yup these are highly source dependent!  My HTC One M9 gets me by but I plug it into my Schiit when I get home and they just absolutely sing.

I'd like to pick up another spare v1, but we all know how hard that's going to be.


----------



## snip3r77

After needing to have foams , “proper” source , hot treble , changing stock cables.

I think I’d be skipping this unless gearbest provide an epic price lol


----------



## Aevum

any alternative to the KZ Bluetooth module ?  it is a standard two pin connector


----------



## bsoplinger (Oct 16, 2017)

Aevum said:


> any alternative to the KZ Bluetooth module ?  it is a standard two pin connector


I've seen Bluetooth 'adapters' on Alibaba with both 2 pin and MMCX connectors. No idea on quality nor pin spacing (.75 and .77 aren't those the usual ones). No idea on quality. I do know nothing was as inexpensive as the KZ ones. I do remember coming across an article mentioning that the reason that the KZ one didn't work well was that the trace on the PC board was told short and that simply soldering on a short (I seen to remember 7mm) of wire to the part of the trace that represents the antenna made a big improvement.

Edit: after I hit return I thought I might have bookmarked the article and I did. Here's the link to the fix for the KZ Bluetooth cable.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1284#post-13623298


----------



## khighly

SomeTechNoob said:


> Yup these are highly source dependent!  My HTC One M9 gets me by but I plug it into my Schiit when I get home and they just absolutely sing.
> 
> I'd like to pick up another spare v1, but we all know how hard that's going to be.



It's like listening to a whole new pair of IEM's! Textured mids and full bass. Whoa! If you haven't listened to the ZS5v1's amped, do yourself a favor and amp these IEM's up.


----------



## Fox2twenty

khighly said:


> It's like listening to a whole new pair of IEM's! Textured mids and full bass. Whoa! If you haven't listened to the ZS5v1's amped, do yourself a favor and amp these IEM's up.


Dang. Okay then!


----------



## CoiL

khighly said:


> It's like listening to a whole new pair of IEM's! Textured mids and full bass. Whoa! If you haven't listened to the ZS5v1's amped, do yourself a favor and amp these IEM's up.



ZS5v1 doesn`t really need amping... just a  good DAC with enough output juice from HO. Though, depends on opamp chips and signature too, if it will pair well.
My DX5X with upgraded OPAMPs also sounds very good with v1. Would get another pair but not going to gamble getting v1 or v2.


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 17, 2017)

khighly said:


> I just got a proper DAC and actual power into my ZS5v1's and HOLY MOLY where did those great mids come from?





CoiL said:


> ZS5v1 doesn`t really need amping... just a  good DAC with enough output juice from HO. Though, depends on opamp chips and signature too, if it will pair well.
> My DX5X with upgraded OPAMPs also sounds very good with v1. Would get another pair but not going to gamble getting v1 or v2.



I have to agree with Coil there. Its more about the quality of the DAC output rather than the amping part.  The ZS5v2 sounds somewhat different between my laptop jack and my LG G6 (Quad DAC).  It sounds fair bit "airier" and tighter in the bass comparatively on the G6.  Similarly thing to the ZSE which I have reiterated quite a few times on this thread.

Its a fairly efficient earphone too. I don't have to play it any louder than my other earphones. In fact I do need to tune it down a few points for some tracks.


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 17, 2017)

I tried to plug my ZS5v2 into my power amp Denon PMA-655r... Completely new earphone... So energic (through Dragonfly they sound bit tiny), perfect mids and bass (not so deep than with Dragonfly but very very accurate)... But the most important... No sibilance... and with spiral dots they were as much bright as my K702. Donno why, but IMO they need big power to vanish or damp sibilance. Huge difference between amping through Dranonfly and Denon.


----------



## vector84

Well, given that the ZS5 (v1 at least) is around 4.8 ohms impedance, it's way outside of defined specs for most stuff intended for use with headphones.  And when working in undefined territory, unexpected results abound. 

It may not be demanding a great deal of power overall (hence not technically needing amping), but the amount of current drawn compared to the voltage applied is *very *high.  Different output stages can handle such demands dramatically differently - fun with undefined performance!


----------



## TJK81

I have listened ZS5's so loud (a felt like my eardrums was pumping - extremely uncomfortable surprisingly) for a while. I was enjoying this kind of listening through big amp. Like i enjoyed it when i brought my K702 and powered them thought Denon..


----------



## Adide

TJK81 said:


> I tried to plug my ZS5v2 into my power amp Denon PMA-655r... So energic (through Dragonfly they sound bit tiny), perfect mids and bass (not so deep than with Dragonfly but very very accurate)... Huge difference between amping through Dranonfly and Denon.



To share my experience, the ZS5v1 plays very well through my AQDragonflyBlack, I find none of the tonal areas lacking. I've unexpectedly found best fit with L Starlines - good enough isolation for commuting.
Pleased about the upgrade in regards with my previous daily ZS3 pretty much in all areas besides lesser isolation but that has been overcome with tip rolling.


----------



## CoiL

TJK81 said:


> I tried to plug my *ZS5v2 into my power amp Denon PMA-655r... Completely new earphone*... So energic (through Dragonfly they sound bit tiny), perfect mids and bass (not so deep than with Dragonfly but very very accurate)... But the most important... No sibilance... and with spiral dots they were as much bright as my K702. Donno why, but IMO they need big power to vanish or damp sibilance. Huge difference between amping through Dranonfly and Denon.



That`s propably because of Your power amp output impedance, which is usually pretty high. Result will be "damped" highs, more vol needed and no sibilance.


----------



## Trisse

I noticed right away when I got my kz zs5 that they where so much better when i used them in my desktop computer with Asus sonar stx sound card. I was kinda disappointed when I plugged them into my Galaxy s6

I actually enjoy them more than my beyerdynamics dt880 pro 300ohm headphones. 

So I bought sabaj da2 dac and now they work wonderfull with my Androids

The Galaxy s6 have so low output volume. I recently switched my Galaxy to a Nokia 8 witch have a bit better output volume and with my Nokia I can use the zs5 without amp. Though they sound alot better with my da2 dac


----------



## CYoung234

tworule said:


> changed cables and check the l-r signs. but no, the right iem does not produce any sound. I hope gearbest deals with it nicely. it has been only 2 weeks.



Try tapping or hitting it a few times. A couple of people reported that one side of their ZS5 was not fully working, but a tap restored it. Obviously, do not hit it hard enough to damage them...


----------



## PantsUK

Just wondering how many people (especially with issues of harsh treble has truly burned the ZS6 in.  I had the same issue with the ZS5 (no sure of the version) and they turned out to be preferable to me to my Shure SE535s yes really that good IMO.  Now I have the ZS6 and my immediate impressions straight out of the box was the same if not worse than the ZS5, the treble peaks were so sharp and harsh it was almost unlistenable fast forward 2-3 days of constant loud playback running through a random playlist and they sound bloody fantastic, not in a position to compare to the ZS5 or SE535s or any other of my collection but so far so great.  Anyway the "myth" of burn in with these are real.  I'm using the standard cable but some low cost Red sort of Memoryfoam tips from gearbest as the standard tips hurt my ears for some reason did on the ZS5 as well but prefer the silicone tips on them again from Gearbest.

These are the tips
*New Bee Memory Foam and Silicone Ear Tips*
  -  RED WITH BLACK 207706601

and a quick pic


----------



## Rilke

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770870.html?wid=21 

For the dude who couldn't buy yet from Gearbest the greens are discounted  directly to 24e without code


----------



## graphidz

So managed to try the ZS5v1 with a fiio q1mk2 and holy moly did it got so much better. I could even say it got to its max potential (or it may just be that it sounded so good for me and it can go further lol). I can't really explain well, but one thing that really bugged me about using through my iPhone 6s+ was how the instrument separation and clarity could be so much better what with the multi driver setup, and the fiio actually fixed it a lot.


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 17, 2017)

Just purchased ZS6 / green for 29 dollars from GB. Looking forward...
Will make comparison with ZS5v2 and give suggestion.


----------



## tworule

CYoung234 said:


> Try tapping or hitting it a few times. A couple of people reported that one side of their ZS5 was not fully working, but a tap restored it. Obviously, do not hit it hard enough to damage them...


I hit a few times. no sound. thanks for the tip though


----------



## CoiL

graphidz said:


> So managed to try the ZS5v1 with a fiio q1mk2 and holy moly did it got so much better. I could even say it got to its max potential (or it may just be that it sounded so good for me and it can go further lol). I can't really explain well, but one thing that really bugged me about using through my iPhone 6s+ was how the instrument separation and clarity could be so much better what with the multi driver setup, and the fiio actually fixed it a lot.



LOL, another ZS5 user got "orgasm" ;D 

ZS5 are source dependent and need enough juice (only little) to sound great.

Ppl complaining about ZS5 should start upgrading source/amp before bashing them down.
.


----------



## Viber

*I finally finished my review for the ZS6!! 
Here is the link:*
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews#review-19321

Hope you enjoy the review.


----------



## jaydm99

Adide said:


> To share my experience, the ZS5v1 plays very well through my AQDragonflyBlack, I find none of the tonal areas lacking. I've unexpectedly found best fit with L Starlines - good enough isolation for commuting.
> Pleased about the upgrade in regards with my previous daily ZS3 pretty much in all areas besides lesser isolation but that has been overcome with tip rolling.


We pretty much have the same experience. I came from my only other IEM, the ZS3. When I listened to them A/B, there was almost no bass on the ZS5, because of bad seal with the medium Starlines. Considered ordering generic comply foam from Ali until I tried out large starlines again. Seal improved a lot. M starlines for ZS3, L starlines for ZS5.


----------



## Fox2twenty

TJK81 said:


> Just purchased ZS6 / green for 29 dollars from GB. Looking forward...
> Will make comparison with ZS5v2 and give suggestion.


Holy moly.. I feel like I need to jump on the bandwagon...


----------



## mrmoto050

bsoplinger said:


> I've seen Bluetooth 'adapters' on Alibaba with both 2 pin and MMCX connectors. No idea on quality nor pin spacing (.75 and .77 aren't those the usual ones). No idea on quality. I do know nothing was as inexpensive as the KZ ones. I do remember coming across an article mentioning that the reason that the KZ one didn't work well was that the trace on the PC board was told short and that simply soldering on a short (I seen to remember 7mm) of wire to the part of the trace that represents the antenna made a big improvement.
> 
> Edit: after I hit return I thought I might have bookmarked the article and I did. Here's the link to the fix for the KZ Bluetooth cable.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1284#post-13623298


Once again Quality Control issues.


----------



## djmakemynight

Fox2twenty said:


> Holy moly.. I feel like I need to jump on the bandwagon...



You know you want to. Green is the new limited edition.


----------



## TJK81

djmakemynight said:


> You know you want to. Green is the new limited edition.


That's the reason why i purchased them


----------



## Carrow

ZS6 on Massdrop!

Just copped mine from Gearbest for €25 with untracked shipping - their tracking numbers never bloody work so I figured I'd save them the hassle this time.


----------



## HiFiChris

Carrow said:


> [...] their tracking numbers never bloody work [...]




Try https://track.aftership.com


----------



## sghound

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kz-zs6...ontent=1508224038238.059350588181441946806916


----------



## chathurai

kokakolia said:


> What's wrong with the IE80!? It's not exactly a budget IEM! Do you really expect a $20 KZ to sound better?
> 
> Well, it looks like the ZS6 is the most detailed out of the bunch (from reading these forums). So that could be the answer you're looking for.
> 
> ...





..... "Do you really expect a $20 KZ to sound better? "  YES that was what i expect


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 17, 2017)

Some pics of my ZS5


----------



## groucho69

CYoung234 said:


> Try tapping or hitting it a few times. A couple of people reported that one side of their ZS5 was not fully working, but a tap restored it. Obviously, do not hit it hard enough to damage them...


----------



## beowulf

The ZS5 I had ordered from Gearbest is lost in transit, waiting for my money back.
It was mostly for the LOLs with a 1:1 with the Andromeda, so I guess I won't reorder.

Weird it got lost tho, I've bought tons of stuff from AliExpress without issues, but the first Gearbest order flopped.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 17, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Yes, of course, it`s subjective. If You are very sensitive to highs (Your hearing is not damaged by loud music etc.) then v1 seems better. Just many have found v2 highs due to 2BAs in nozzle way too much.
> I`m just generalizing overall opinions on v1 vs v2.


I take it you didn't want to share any of the songs you find have harsh treble with the ZS5 v2? It's a pity, I would have liked to find out if my hearing experiences are in any way similar to other people's on here. You do have the v2 and v1 right?


----------



## mrmoto050

groucho69 said:


>


Cold solder joints, another failed Quality control


----------



## jaydm99

beowulf said:


> The ZS5 I had ordered from Gearbest is lost in transit, waiting for my money back.
> It was mostly for the LOLs with a 1:1 with the Andromeda, so I guess I won't reorder.
> 
> Weird it got lost tho, I've bought tons of stuff from AliExpress without issues, but the first Gearbest order flopped.


Hope this doesn't happen to me. It's my first GB order too for my extra ZS3 pair.


----------



## Slater

TJK81 said:


> Some pics of my ZS5



Love the ZST cable, as it always results in a better fit around the ear. Nice job bud.

I wish KZ would just standardize on that cable for all of the detachable IEMs.


----------



## Slater (Oct 17, 2017)

mrmoto050 said:


> Cold solder joints, another failed Quality control



Cold solder joints happen to all manufacturers, even Apple (more than you know). Apple surely has better QC than KZ right?

Even a pair of my Sennheisers had a cold joint I ended up redoing. So what?


----------



## HungryPanda

My first Beyerdynamic T1.2's arrived with no left channel


----------



## williamclarkonet

I have the KZ ATR, ATE S, and EDR2 and want to burn them in is this a waste of time or is there a benefit to burn in


----------



## khighly

williamclarkonet said:


> I have the KZ ATR, ATE S, and EDR2 and want to burn them in is this a waste of time or is there a benefit to burn in



Total waste of time that hasn't been proven to have any effect. Snake oil. The most important part will be listening to them and letting your brain/ears adjust.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> My first Beyerdynamic T1.2's arrived with no left channel



Wow, that's shocking on a can like that.

Are you going to open them up and diagnose/repair yourself?


----------



## Slater (Oct 17, 2017)

williamclarkonet said:


> I have the KZ ATR, ATE S, and EDR2 and want to burn them in is this a waste of time or is there a benefit to burn in



Some say yes, some say no.

My take on it is what can it hurt, so why not? I mean, you have 3 IEMs and only 2 ears. So burn in the others while you listen to 1 pair.

The unused pairs are either going to sit in a drawer or connected to an old ipod. So just go for the ipod and if it makes any difference to you then great.


----------



## djmakemynight

williamclarkonet said:


> I have the KZ ATR, ATE S, and EDR2 and want to burn them in is this a waste of time or is there a benefit to burn in



Listening to songs also burn them in naturally. No right or wrong answer, totally subjective like any individual's choice of music.


----------



## HungryPanda

I sent it back and received a new pair


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 17, 2017)

Slater said:


> Love the ZST cable, as it always results in a better fit around the ear. Nice job bud.
> 
> I wish KZ would just standardize on that cable for all of the detachable IEMs.


You are right. That straight cable sticks out of my ear/head let's say unnaturaly. That 45deg. connector nicely turns around on my ear. Much better after a little modification.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Oct 17, 2017)

Slater said:


> Cold solder joints happen to all manufacturers, even Apple (more than you know). Apple surely has better QC than KZ right?
> 
> Even a pair of my Sennheisers had a cold joint I ended up redoing. So what?


Nothing really, just the facts in all electronics, but pretty consistent wih ChFi it seems. As far as Apple- Never had anything Apple, never will. jmo nothing more.


----------



## williamclarkonet

I'm trying to decide between the ED7 and ED4 for my next KZ purchase witch one has better bass?


----------



## Ynot1

By the way zse is a lateral move from es3. Just dynamic vs ba difference in treble tuning. Big bass sound reminds me of headphones.

But I was wondering 4 wires come down from the y split to the 3.5 plug. Does this mean single ended wiring is done only at the plug?
Or is the minus left and minus right connectd at the y split?

Could smeone find out from one of your spare unused kz headphone cable?


----------



## gazzington

Which kz earphones would you recommend for a black/death metal fan?


----------



## Slater (Oct 17, 2017)

williamclarkonet said:


> I'm trying to decide between the ED7 and ED4 for my next KZ purchase witch one has better bass?



Run, don't walk, from the ED4.

They are only useful as cat toys, or to possibly throw at someone you don't like.


----------



## twibmassa

Looks like the KZ ZS6 is on massdrop right now. $37.99 and shipping November 21st.


----------



## khighly

Sometimes I feel like the ZS5v1's has too much sub bass, but I think it's just perfect. They can be absolute bass cannons if the song is mastered like that. I feel like the sub bass can nicely tuck itself away if not needed.

ZS5v1's impress me every day. I probably have 200-300 hours on these already.


----------



## Saulo Jonas

Hi, Guys!

I've been reading this and a lot of Head-Fi threads but never showed up, hiding in the shadows. Is actually a pleasure to have such a great place to discuss audio things and get into detailed, technical information. ''Claps'' to Phonograph, AproEar too. 

My audio gear are quite common: AKG 404/414 (a 7, 8 years veteran with some ridiculous mods mixing them), and old Porta Pro, 15$ Sony earbuds, Philips 3060, Senn HD 238i, Motorola Pulse, QKZ, iLuv, Mercury, ZST Color, ED4, ATR, ATE-S, ED2, ES3.   Most products in BR are quite expensive - due to taxes, old tributary system plus ten thousand problems not exactly related to carnaval, samba or football. Really. Including college and not born myself as a rich sir. China helps me a lot so to say.

I'm considering buying the ZS3 this week to use in Bus rides situations. People said they block outside sounds like no other cheap in-ear solution. And a 70$, 60U$ DAC/AMP for my little, still capable these days, Z3 Compact. Probabily S.M.S.L M2, Topping NX1/NX2, Auglamour or even FiiO A3.

 What y'll think? Would be smart wait for the ''ZS4/ZSR/ZS?'' release?

           Tks for now!


----------



## kokakolia

williamclarkonet said:


> I'm trying to decide between the ED7 and ED4 for my next KZ purchase witch one has better bass?



I had the KZ ED7. I liked them a lot. But I wouldn't say that they had much bass. It was sort of "there".


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> Run, don't walk, from the ED4.
> 
> They are only useful as cat toys, or to possibly throw at someone you don't like.


lol! good to know. im curious what makes them so bad?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Run, don't walk, from the ED4.
> 
> They are only useful as cat toys, or to possibly throw at someone you don't like.



The ED4 is good, it's just hyper aggressive. Not for the feint of heart.


----------



## Slater

twibmassa said:


> Looks like the KZ ZS6 is on massdrop right now. $37.99 and shipping November 21st.



It's on Gearbest for $28 free shipping, and in stock now vs waiting a month.

I have never been impressed at Massdrop's prices. Maybe I just haven't found that "deal of the century" there yet. Just like Woot, it seems they give you a few dollars off Amazon, making the average Joe feel like they're getting a "deal". Usually you can get almost everything on other sites for much cheaper.


----------



## williamclarkonet

I wanted to get peoples opinion on witch of KZs ED line has the most bass response it does not matter to me if it drowns out the mids and highs a little


----------



## Slater

williamclarkonet said:


> lol! good to know. im curious what makes them so bad?



They have a wide body and a short nozzle, so they don't allow a deep insertion (which reduces bass). Then they have a very odd tuning, unlike any other KZ. It's been described as W shaped tuning. But the sound comes across as tiny, thin, and hollow - like a cheap handheld AM transistor radio from the 70s.

For literally the same price you can get the KZ EDR1 or EDR2 which has an excellent all-around consumer tuning (in other words, sounds good with most genres except maybe classical and orchestral). It's easy to drive with any source, sounds great with low-fi MP3 files and sources like cell phones, has nice tight responsive bass, juicy midrange, nice sparkly treble, good isolation, is built like a tank, and fits great (worn cable down). It's light years better than the ED4.


----------



## Slater (Oct 17, 2017)

williamclarkonet said:


> I wanted to get peoples opinion on witch of KZs ED line has the most bass response it does not matter to me if it drowns out the mids and highs a little



So I have the ED3, ED4, ED9, EDSE, EDR1, and EDR2.

The only (readily available) one out of the ED line I don't have is the ED7.

I have heard that the ED7 is nice, but out of all of them I like the ED9 and EDR1/EDR2 the best. The ED9 is kind of polarizing though, so it's not for everyone. A lot of people love it, a lot don't. It does have 2 tuning filters, and is easy to mod to make it sound even better. Sue to it's open vents, it has a great soundstage at the expense of isolation and bass. To get monster bass you have to do some mods (close the rear vents, use the gold filter, and replace the foam in the gold filter with fiber fill).

The EDSE has fat juicy bass out of the box, and a nice v shaped tune. But once I heard the EDR1 and EDR2 (which use the exact same housing as the EDSE just a different driver and different vent hole configuration), the EDR1 and EDR2 is much better than the EDSE.

The whole ED line isn't highly resolving or highly detailed either. I classify the ED line as "low-fi heroes". The ZS3 with Slater mod is another option to consider as well. It sounds similar to the EDR1/EDR2, and is sexier looking, and has removable/upgradeable cables.

So rating them in order, for bass/comfort/general performance, I would rate them like this:

1. ZS3 (with Slater mod)
2. EDR1/EDR2
3. ED9 with mods (gold filter)
4. ZS3 (stock ie without Slater mod)
5. EDSE
6. ED9 (stock without mods but using gold filter)
7. ED3
...
100 (ie dead last). ED4

Also, I'm not sure if you have your heart set on the "ED" line, but the ZSE should certainly be another contender on your list. It has excellent bass and a very nice overall balanced tune (good mids, bright and sparkly highs, looks great, dual dynamic drivers, etc).

Hope that helps.

P.S. - It sounds like you are looking for a basshead IEM. In other words, you want skull crushing bass, and you don't mind if it's at the expense of midrange or treble (but obviously you want something that sounds good too). Is that an accurate statement? What's your budget ($5, $10, $20)?


----------



## PantsUK

khighly said:


> Total waste of time that hasn't been proven to have any effect. Snake oil. The most important part will be listening to them and letting your brain/ears adjust.



Im the first to say there is loads of snake oil in the audio world but I myself have found burning in of IEMs def do make a difference.  If I'd have been using them then yes I'd agree it would be my ears adjusting but I wasn't.  I plugged them in on Friday and found the treble so harsh it was unbearable, so with the exact same setup Denon DAC/Little Dot 1+ AMP left them playing up loud all weekend and used another pair of IEMs and a pair of headphones.  Went back to them yesterday and the harshness was gone, if it wasn't due to the burn in one of the treble drivers in each ear has stopped working that's my only other thought ..... burn in seems more likely to me, as I said I found the same with the ZS5 although the ZS5 was no where near as bad.  Ear tips do make a difference as does making sure you get a good fit deep into the ear but I find that's more to control the bass in this case I didn't change a thing over the 3 days.  Even went back and listened to my same tracks.  If it is snake oil I've drunk the bottle and truly enjoyed it!  Essentially I put 72 hours of listening at a volume above what I would comfortably listen to over the 3 days otherwise it would have taken me probably 3-4 weeks to get to that point and yes then you could say it's likely ears are just adjusting.

Burning in (if that is in fact what's happening rather than just the flexing of the drivers) costs nothing and takes naff all time in this case so snake oil or not it's no harm!


----------



## Slater

PantsUK said:


> Im the first to say there is loads of snake oil in the audio world but I myself have found burning in of IEMs def do make a difference.  If I'd have been using them then yes I'd agree it would be my ears adjusting but I wasn't.  I plugged them in on Friday and found the treble so harsh it was unbearable, so with the exact same setup Denon DAC/Little Dot 1+ AMP left them playing up loud all weekend and used another pair of IEMs and a pair of headphones.  Went back to them yesterday and the harshness was gone, if it wasn't due to the burn in one of the treble drivers in each ear has stopped working that's my only other thought ..... burn in seems more likely to me, as I said I found the same with the ZS5 although the ZS5 was no where near as bad.  Ear tips do make a difference as does making sure you get a good fit deep into the ear but I find that's more to control the bass in this case I didn't change a thing over the 3 days.  Even went back and listened to my same tracks.  If it is snake oil I've drunk the bottle and truly enjoyed it!  Essentially I put 72 hours of listening at a volume above what I would comfortably listen to over the 3 days otherwise it would have taken me probably 3-4 weeks to get to that point and yes then you could say it's likely ears are just adjusting.
> 
> Burning in (if that is in fact what's happening rather than just the flexing of the drivers) costs nothing and takes naff all time in this case so snake oil or not it's no harm!



Speaking of snake oil, I think they should make cable risers/lifters for IEMs. Because when the cable lays against your body, it can absorb subatomic life force wave energy ions and dark matter magnetic chakra particles that your body gives off, making IEMs sound distorted. By sticking cable risers all over our body (or maybe wear one of those puffy jackets or Michelin Man suits), then it HAS to help improve the sound, right?


----------



## PantsUK

Slater said:


> Speaking of snake oil, I think they should make cable risers/lifters for IEMs. Because when the cable lays against your body, it can absorb subatomic life force wave energy ions and dark matter magnetic chakra particles that your body gives off, making IEMs sound distorted. By sticking cable risers all over our body (or maybe wear one of those puffy jackets or Michelin Man suits), then it HAS to help improve the sound, right?



I always wear a puffa jacket when listening to IEMs maybe that's why the magical snake oil works for me ?


----------



## williamclarkonet (Oct 17, 2017)

Slater said:


> They have a wide body and a short nozzle, so they don't allow a deep insertion (which reduces bass). Then they have a very odd tuning, unlike any other KZ. It's been described as W shaped tuning. But the sound comes across as tiny, thin, and hollow - like a cheap handheld AM transistor radio from the 70s.
> 
> For literally the same price you can get the KZ EDR1 or EDR2 which has an excellent all-around consumer tuning (in other words, sounds good with most genres except maybe classical and orchestral). It's easy to drive with any source, sounds great with low-fi MP3 files and sources like cell phones, has nice tight responsive bass, juicy midrange, nice sparkly treble, good isolation, is built like a tank, and fits great (worn cable down). It's light years better than the ED4.





Slater said:


> So I have the ED3, ED4, ED9, EDSE, EDR1, and EDR2.
> 
> The only (readily available) one out of the ED line I don't have is the ED7.
> 
> ...



Great info this really helps alot!


----------



## Superluc (Oct 17, 2017)

Saulo Jonas said:


> I'm considering buying the ZS3 this week to use in Bus rides situations. People said they block outside sounds like no other cheap in-ear solution. And a 70$, 60U$ DAC/AMP for my little, still capable these days, Z3 Compact. Probabily S.M.S.L M2, Topping NX1/NX2, Auglamour or even FiiO A3.
> 
> What y'll think? Would be smart wait for the ''ZS4/ZSR/ZS?'' release?
> 
> Tks for now!


The ZS3 is a very good fellow for noisier situations. An hybrid version with the same case is coming ( ZS4, probably ), but we still have not see it. Waiting months for save 7-8$ on something like this is not smart at all.
As for the DAC/AMP, between these i have the Topping NX2 and i like it. Sounds almost neutral as a DAC. The AMP section dint have the power for headphones with bigger impedance, but is good for IEMs. Using only as a AMP, the battery last almost forever.


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> P.S. - It sounds like you are looking for a basshead IEM. In other words, you want skull crushing bass, and you don't mind if it's at the expense of midrange or treble (but obviously you want something that sounds good too). Is that an accurate statement? What's your budget ($5, $10, $20)?


This is very accurate i want to stay with the KZ brand my budget is any as long as I stay with KZ


----------



## vector84

PantsUK said:


> Im the first to say there is loads of snake oil in the audio world but I myself have found burning in of IEMs def do make a difference.  If I'd have been using them then yes I'd agree it would be my ears adjusting but I wasn't.  I plugged them in on Friday and found the treble so harsh it was unbearable, so with the exact same setup Denon DAC/Little Dot 1+ AMP left them playing up loud all weekend and used another pair of IEMs and a pair of headphones.  Went back to them yesterday and the harshness was gone, if it wasn't due to the burn in one of the treble drivers in each ear has stopped working that's my only other thought ..... burn in seems more likely to me, as I said I found the same with the ZS5 although the ZS5 was no where near as bad.  Ear tips do make a difference as does making sure you get a good fit deep into the ear but I find that's more to control the bass in this case I didn't change a thing over the 3 days.  Even went back and listened to my same tracks.  If it is snake oil I've drunk the bottle and truly enjoyed it!  Essentially I put 72 hours of listening at a volume above what I would comfortably listen to over the 3 days otherwise it would have taken me probably 3-4 weeks to get to that point and yes then you could say it's likely ears are just adjusting.
> 
> Burning in (if that is in fact what's happening rather than just the flexing of the drivers) costs nothing and takes naff all time in this case so snake oil or not it's no harm!


Brain burn in is an amazing thing - and sorely underestimated and misunderstood.  The biggest example... people think stuff needs to be in your ears for it to happen - this is not only wrong, it's almost completely the opposite of how the actual process takes place when subjected to study.

I also am not a huge believer in burn in in general... I tell myself I do it to check for basic electrical issues (and I've had more than a few pieces of gear die during those early hours over the years that makes me feel like it's a worthwhile endeavor) and that makes me feel better about it. 


Having said that... I wrote about this a while back, and I'm not exactly sure why, but I had a rather fascinating experience with an OOB ZSE - something to do with glue getting in the wrong place would be my guess, but they shook themselves into shape after a few minutes if playback.

So there's my "I don't believe in burn in... but I do it anyway" story


----------



## SomeGuyDude

snip3r77 said:


> After needing to have foams , “proper” source , hot treble , changing stock cables.
> 
> I think I’d be skipping this unless gearbest provide an epic price lol



Goodbye then. I can promise we won't miss your presence.


----------



## Slater (Oct 17, 2017)

williamclarkonet said:


> This is very accurate i want to stay with the KZ brand my budget is any as long as I stay with KZ



OK, since you want to stay with KZ (vs something like the Boarseman KR49), for basshead I would say:

1. ZS1 v1 (no longer available and very rare)
2. ZS3 with Slater mod
3. EDR2/EDR1

You could also consider the:

- KZ GR (with black filter). I've never heard it myself, but it's reported to be an extremely bass-dominated model. You can read more about it here: http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-gr/
- ZN1 Mini, which also has some really hard hitting bass. It uses the same case and dual driver setup as the ZS1 v1 (although I don't know if it actually uses the same drivers). I much prefer the ZN1 v1 to the ZN1 Mini, but unfortunately the ZN1 v1 is basically impossible to find anymore (luckily I have 2 pairs).

The ZS1, ZS3, and ZN1 Mini are worn behind-the-ear, the GR, EDR1, and EDR2 are worn cable down.

I have also never heard the ES3, but most people seem to like it and it's supposed to be bassy (I've heard it compared to a slightly better ZS3).

Maybe Vidal and Loomis can chime in with their basshead KZ recommendations, because they've also heard most everything I've listed including things I haven't heard (like the GR and maybe ES3).

Hope that helps.


----------



## Keller2

I've gained some respect for the ZS5v1 - initially hated their guts because they were extremely bassy and got congested on busy tracks. 

The ZST was my daily driver at that point. 
After using the ES3 for a while as a daily driver the ZS5v1 is a bit more tolerable. 

Both the ZST and ES3 remain the better headphones though. 

ES3 is the right amount of bassy. ZS5v1 is just too much.


----------



## vector84

Saulo Jonas said:


> I'm considering buying the ZS3 this week to use in Bus rides situations. People said they block outside sounds like no other cheap in-ear solution. And a 70$, 60U$ DAC/AMP for my little, still capable these days, Z3 Compact. Probabily S.M.S.L M2, Topping NX1/NX2, Auglamour or even FiiO A3.





Superluc said:


> The ZS3 is a very good fellow for noisier situations. An hybrid version with the same case is coming ( ZS4, probably ), but we still have not see it. Waiting months for save 7-8$ on something like this is not smart at all.
> As for the DAC/AMP, between these i have the Topping NX2 and i like it. Sounds almost neutral as a DAC. The AMP section dint have the power for headphones with bigger impedance, but is good for IEMs. Using only as a AMP, the battery last almost forever.


Fair warning, those Toppings are absurdly sensitive to EMI.  Like... people say airplane mode works for them, and maybe I just got a really bad one... but yeah... nope.  I was using it with a pair of ZS5 v1s and the heck with radio transmitters (which are just a big fat NOPE) - touching a touchscreen device that was within a few feet of the NX2 would send it cracking and popping, and I once made the mistake of setting it down on top of my desktop PC... which prompted a near hearing damage level of static to be produced.

That thing scared me.  I replaced it with a Fiio Q1 and I'm pretty content so far.


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> OK, since you want to stay with KZ (vs something like the Boarseman KR49), for basshead I would say:
> 
> 1. ZS1 v1 (no longer available and very rare)
> 2. ZS3 with Slater mod
> ...


Can you tell if this is ZS1 v1
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10027763/6204100-kz-zs1-hifi-heavy-bass-in-ear-earphones


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> OK, since you want to stay with KZ (vs something like the Boarseman KR49), for basshead I would say:
> 
> 1. ZS1 v1 (no longer available and very rare)
> 2. ZS3 with Slater mod
> ...


Thanks I will get the ZS3


----------



## Keller2

williamclarkonet said:


> Can you tell if this is ZS1 v1
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10027763/6204100-kz-zs1-hifi-heavy-bass-in-ear-earphones


There's very little hope of getting a ZS1v1 nowadays.


----------



## W.Peter

Another day I just received my KZ Zs5 from banggood.com. 
The first time I listened to this I didn't like it, the treble was too harsh and especially the sibilant sound like S. 
After two days of burn in with music I would listen normally, it's better but the problem is still there. I use my Macbookpro and imac to listen to lossless music file. 
Im quite new, I think I'm treble sensitive or is it from the iem. I found that there are two Versions of this, I only see one circle in mine Zs5 and it comes with earlike graphic package.
And would Zs6 has the same characteristic of supper strong treble like these Zs5?


----------



## bsoplinger

vector84 said:


> Fair warning, those Toppings are absurdly sensitive to EMI.


The NX1 and NX2 have been reported to be very sensitive. However the newer versions, NX1s and NX2s, aren't. Rather nice inexpensive amp and amp/DAC combo respectively.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 17, 2017)

W.Peter said:


> Another day I just received my KZ Zs5 from banggood.com.
> The first time I listened to this I didn't like it, the treble was too harsh and especially the sibilant sound like S.
> After two days of burn in with music I would listen normally, it's better but the problem is still there. I use my Macbookpro and imac to listen to lossless music file.
> Im quite new, I think I'm treble sensitive or is it from the iem. I found that there are two Versions of this, I only see one circle in mine Zs5 and it comes with earlike graphic package.
> And would Zs6 has the same characteristic of supper strong treble like these Zs5?


Impedance mismatch, I think?  A quick google search suggests ~24 ohms output impedance.

As can be seen from the data in this thread, ZS6 has even more treble than the ZS5 v1, but it also has an opposite reaction to increasing output impedance and so would probably produce very different results on those sources (less treble)


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> The NX1 and NX2 have been reported to be very sensitive. However the newer versions, NX1s and NX2s, aren't. Rather nice inexpensive amp and amp/DAC combo respectively.


The new S versions have around 3.5 ohms output impedance though - not terrible, but not great either unless that's a desirable trait for a specific pairing -  and it is right in the sweet spot for some IEMs that like non-zero output impedance, but I can't comment on how it effects KZ stuff.


----------



## Wiljen

williamclarkonet said:


> I wanted to get peoples opinion on witch of KZs ED line has the most bass response it does not matter to me if it drowns out the mids and highs a little



I'd vote ES3 for largest bass response and Zs6 for best followed closely by Zs5v1.


----------



## williamclarkonet

Wiljen said:


> I'd vote ES3 for largest bass response and Zs6 for best followed closely by Zs5v1.


Can KZ multi-driver headphones really beat out there single driver headphones? Is the difference just minor?


----------



## Mellowship

vector84 said:


> Fair warning, those Toppings are absurdly sensitive to EMI.  Like... people say airplane mode works for them, and maybe I just got a really bad one... but yeah... nope.  I was using it with a pair of ZS5 v1s and the heck with radio transmitters (which are just a big fat NOPE) - touching a touchscreen device that was within a few feet of the NX2 would send it cracking and popping, and I once made the mistake of setting it down on top of my desktop PC... which prompted a near hearing damage level of static to be produced.
> 
> That thing scared me.  I replaced it with a Fiio Q1 and I'm pretty content so far.



Never had that magnitude of interference you described with my NX2. Well, when connected via DAC to my smartphone, sometimes there is a little interference. I guess it depends on the things you pair it to. I use it mostly with a FiiO x3II and it's a great combination for all KZ earphones. Another great amp to pair with the X3II is the classic Cmoy, but not for IEMs - only for something with more than 24 ohm.


----------



## Wiljen

williamclarkonet said:


> Can KZ multi-driver headphones really beat out there single driver headphones? Is the difference just minor?



I think the ED3 is only marginally better than the Zs3 or Zst for quantity of bass output.  So, I guess in answer to your question I do think there is a difference, but I don't think 2 drivers means double the bass quantity because it just isnt the case.  I do think some of the dual dynamics from other brands really do lots for bass quantity and quality.  One of my favorite all time basshead in ears is the Denon Urban Raver that was dual 11mm dynamics.


----------



## Wiljen

Mellowship said:


> Never had that magnitude of interference you described with my NX2. Well, when connected via DAC to my smartphone, sometimes there is a little interference. I guess it depends on the things you pair it to. I use it mostly with a FiiO x3II and it's a great combination for all KZ earphones. Another great amp to pair with the X3II is the classic Cmoy, but not for IEMs - only for something with more than 24 ohm.



I think the NX1 was the one that was really susceptible and they did get better with later models.  I have the original Nx1 and it did occasionally have some interference but I never found it to be as bad as some others did.


----------



## Fox2twenty

djmakemynight said:


> You know you want to. Green is the new limited edition.


I really do.....


----------



## vector84

Mellowship said:


> Never had that magnitude of interference you described with my NX2. Well, when connected via DAC to my smartphone, sometimes there is a little interference. I guess it depends on the things you pair it to. I use it mostly with a FiiO x3II and it's a great combination for all KZ earphones. Another great amp to pair with the X3II is the classic Cmoy, but not for IEMs - only for something with more than 24 ohm.





Wiljen said:


> I think the NX1 was the one that was really susceptible and they did get better with later models.  I have the original Nx1 and it did occasionally have some interference but I never found it to be as bad as some others did.


Yeah, I wouldn't have felt the need to point it out if it was a "normal" level of EMI, as I'd read plenty about that before ordering one, but pairing the NX2 with the ZS5 v1 (no other IEMs I own produced nearly this dramatic a result btw) and setting it on top of my desktop PC was a genuinely terrifying experience.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> I'd vote ES3 for largest bass response and Zs6 for best followed closely by Zs5v1.


I also experience the ES3 as having more bass than ZS5.


----------



## groucho69 (Oct 17, 2017)

Slater said:


> Speaking of snake oil, I think they should make cable risers/lifters for IEMs. Because when the cable lays against your body, it can absorb subatomic life force wave energy ions and dark matter magnetic chakra particles that your body gives off, making IEMs sound distorted. By sticking cable risers all over our body (or maybe wear one of those puffy jackets or Michelin Man suits), then it HAS to help improve the sound, right?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Gameboy guitar


----------



## Wiljen

You should probably not put them in your ears either if you want them to sound their best.  After all, ear sweat would be trapped and then when it heats up and evaporates it could condense on the metal inside the IEM and corrode the surface.  That cant be good for them.  You probably need special in-ear anti-perspiratant just to be safe.   Of course, this having been my personal specialty, I have the applicators (Cough - Qtip - Cough) and magic dust (Cough - Gold bond) all for the low low price of $49.95.  Or you can sign up for our subscription service and get a new kit every month for only $19.95 a month (Billed a decade in advance of course).


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> You should probably not put them in your ears either if you want them to sound their best.  After all, ear sweat would be trapped and then when it heats up and evaporates it could condense on the metal inside the IEM and corrode the surface.  That cant be good for them.  You probably need special in-ear anti-perspiratant just to be safe.   Of course, this having been my personal specialty, I have the applicators (Cough - Qtip - Cough) and magic dust (Cough - Gold bond) all for the low low price of $49.95.  Or you can sign up for our subscription service and get a new kit every month for only $19.95 a month (Billed a decade in advance of course).


Sounds like you are a great business man.


----------



## kernel8888

anyone know where I can purchase the silicone tips that come stock with the kz5s? thanks!!


----------



## groucho69

Wiljen said:


> You should probably not put them in your ears either if you want them to sound their best.  After all, ear sweat would be trapped and then when it heats up and evaporates it could condense on the metal inside the IEM and corrode the surface.  That cant be good for them.  You probably need special in-ear anti-perspiratant just to be safe.   Of course, this having been my personal specialty, I have the applicators (Cough - Qtip - Cough) and magic dust (Cough - Gold bond) all for the low low price of $49.95.  Or you can sign up for our subscription service and get a new kit every month for only $19.95 a month (Billed a decade in advance of course).



Where can I sign up?


----------



## Wiljen

kernel8888 said:


> anyone know where I can purchase the silicone tips that come stock with the kz5s? thanks!!



The Kz official store has them on ali express if you can do that.


----------



## vector84

kernel8888 said:


> anyone know where I can purchase the silicone tips that come stock with the kz5s? thanks!!


A wide variety of aliexpress stores carry them and you can find a bunch with a search like "kz ear tips", but most don't seem to differentiate between the old (grey/translucent) ones that came with previous KZ IEMs and the new (black/opaque) ones that come with the ZS5.

You could try to message the seller and find out which they have or if they even know.  Could also try checking reviews for recent pictures or some such.


Wiljen said:


> The Kz official store has them on ali express if you can do that.


Usually they do - and I would tend to think you'd be more likely to get the black ones there?  But unless I'm missing something they seem to have unlisted them at the moment.


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> Fair warning, those Toppings are absurdly sensitive to EMI.  Like... people say airplane mode works for them, and maybe I just got a really bad one... but yeah... nope.  I was using it with a pair of ZS5 v1s and the heck with radio transmitters (which are just a big fat NOPE) - touching a touchscreen device that was within a few feet of the NX2 would send it cracking and popping, and I once made the mistake of setting it down on top of my desktop PC... which prompted a near hearing damage level of static to be produced.
> 
> That thing scared me.  I replaced it with a Fiio Q1 and I'm pretty content so far.


On mine it's never happened to me at this kind of scaring level ( even putting it on the case of my PC ), but yeah, i can confirm that it's not shielded enough. Good to know that the newer version isn't as sensitive to them.


----------



## Wiljen

It would be cool to put together what people think is the best rig they can build for $100.   Would have to include DAP and a KZ headphone to stay with forum topic, but you could do a low end dap and an amp etc. as long as one could realistically expect to be able to duplicate it for $100.
(No my buddy sold me his AK380 for $30 bs)  My starting point:

Benjie K9  $20
Fiio E07k $40 (sales thread here)
KZ Zs6  $29 Gearbest
Foam tips $2 AliExpress
8gb Micro SD card - $8 biglots


Tell me your best $100 KZ rig.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Wiljen said:


> It would be cool to put together what people think is the best rig they can build for $100.   Would have to include DAP and a KZ headphone to stay with forum topic, but you could do a low end dap and an amp etc. as long as one could realistically expect to be able to duplicate it for $100.
> (No my buddy sold me his AK380 for $30 bs)  My starting point:
> 
> Benjie K9  $20
> ...


I need to put this rig together. Lol.


----------



## Slater (Oct 17, 2017)

williamclarkonet said:


> Can you tell if this is ZS1 v1
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10027763/6204100-kz-zs1-hifi-heavy-bass-in-ear-earphones



There's no way to know from a listing or listing photos.

Even when photos show the v1 model, it's still possible the seller just didn't update the photos and/or are just using generic stock KZ photos.

The ONLY way to know 100% is to ask an individual seller to open it up and physically inspect the IEM. You need to pop off 1 of the silicone tips, and if you see a brass/gold ring with NO mesh screen in the nozzle, you have the v1 model. If it's a stainless steel mesh screen, it's the ZS1 v2 (which is junk in comparison).

We're currently experiencing a similar issue with the ZS5 v1 vs v2. The ONLY way to reliably tell is to shine a light through the mesh and look for 1 vs 2 BA drivers. And everyone is looking for the ZS5 v1, which is like searching for gold.

Here's a photo of the difference in the ZS1. It's the same photo I sent to 50 or so Aliexpress sellers, until I got ONE to reply and verify if they indeed had the correct brass ring version. Others may have had it, but either there was some sort of language barrier problem with what I was asking (ie non-English sellers) or some sellers were just too lazy to physically check the IEM and didn't care. The photo shown below (which I sent to sellers) had simplified language, to try and eliminate confusion (using words like golden instead of brass, etc).



I'm sure there are a quite a number of ZS1 v1s still out there on a few seller's shelves. But you'd probably have an easier time finding the lost city of El Dorado or Atlantis haha

If you do go looking, I would recommend trying the smaller more obscure sellers on Aliexpress and also ebay. Any larger seller would have moved more inventory and would have received the v2 upon KZ reorders. But if you had a little mom and pop Chinese shop that is ultra low volume, they might still have 1 still sitting in inventory out of the original 5 they originally ordered.

Heck, it's possible that the Fasttech link you found are the v1 model.

They are worth the time spent searching though. It's like a basshead's dream IEM.

I got lucky and found a seller with 1 - perhaps you will too. It doesn't hurt anything to send out the messages and ask (I just copied and pasted the same message over and over).

I wish KZ would make another batch of the original ZS1 v1 - call it ZS Special Edition or something. They used the same shell ZN1, ZN1 Mini, and the ZS2 (the ZS2 also sucked in comparison). But the ZS1 v1 had a crossover and a brass bass ring in the nozzle. So even if you got a ZS1 v2 or ZS2, removed the stainless mesh screen and somehow rigged up an identical brass ring, you'd still be missing the crossover.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Fair warning, those Toppings are absurdly sensitive to EMI.  Like... people say airplane mode works for them, and maybe I just got a really bad one... but yeah... nope.  I was using it with a pair of ZS5 v1s and the heck with radio transmitters (which are just a big fat NOPE) - touching a touchscreen device that was within a few feet of the NX2 would send it cracking and popping, and I once made the mistake of setting it down on top of my desktop PC... which prompted a near hearing damage level of static to be produced.
> 
> That thing scared me.  I replaced it with a Fiio Q1 and I'm pretty content so far.



That's pretty sad. Shielding should have been one of the easiest things to engineer in that amp.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> That's pretty sad. Shielding should have been one of the easiest things to engineer in that amp.



You'd think, but even the damn Mojo is bad with it.


----------



## Wiljen

SomeGuyDude said:


> You'd think, but even the damn Mojo is bad with it.



I can forgive a $35 Topping a lot easier than a $500 Chord.


----------



## Slater

Fox2twenty said:


> Gameboy guitar



Is the screen functional? Can you play games on it?


----------



## Slater (Oct 17, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> I think the ED3 is only marginally better than the Zs3 or Zst for quantity of bass output.  So, I guess in answer to your question I do think there is a difference, but I don't think 2 drivers means double the bass quantity because it just isnt the case.  I do think some of the dual dynamics from other brands really do lots for bass quantity and quality.  One of my favorite all time basshead in ears is the Denon Urban Raver that was dual 11mm dynamics.



ED3? Do you mean ES3? Because my ED3 has less bass than both the ZS3 and ZST.

Although speaking of the ZST I have yet to try out the bass port mod on the ZST. I wouldn't mind having the ZST be a little harder hitting ZST. I use them while bicycling, and the wind noise causes me to have to bump up the volume. I would rather have lower volume and more bass (similar to the 'loudness' feature found on some [older] audio equipment).

There's also the port mod on the ZS5. Perhaps that is the holy grail for KZ bassheads? I think I need to try those mods out this weekend and do a little head-to-head comparison with the trusty ZS1 v1.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> ED3? Do you mean ES3? Because my ED3 has less bass than both the ZS3 and ZST.
> 
> Although speaking of the ZST I have yet to try out the bass port mod on the ZST. I wouldn't mind having the ZST be a little harder hitting ZST. I use them while bicycling, and the wind noise causes me to have to bump up the volume. I would rather have lower volume and more bass (similar to the 'loudness' feature found on some [older] audio equipment).
> 
> There's also the port mod on the ZS5. Perhaps that is the holy grail for KZ bassheads? I think I need to try those mods out this weekend and do a little head-to-head comparison with the trusty ZS1 v1.




Good Catch, Yes I meant  E S 3.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> It would be cool to put together what people think is the best rig they can build for $100.   Would have to include DAP and a KZ headphone to stay with forum topic, but you could do a low end dap and an amp etc. as long as one could realistically expect to be able to duplicate it for $100.
> (No my buddy sold me his AK380 for $30 bs)  My starting point:
> 
> Benjie K9  $20
> ...



This is a great idea for a dedicated thread.

Best total package for $100 total
Best total package for $200 total
Best total package for $300 total


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> Good Catch, Yes I meant  E S 3.



Figures. One of the few KZs I don't have lol.

Maybe I'll pick one up during 11.11 sale. Or I think I saw them stupid cheap on flash sale at gearbest.


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> There's no way to know from a listing or listing photos.
> 
> Even when photos show the v1 model, it's still possible the seller just didn't update the photos and/or are just using generic stock KZ photos.
> 
> ...


Yeah its too bad Im just getting into KZs now because apparently im missed alot of good IEMs they made through the years lol.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> This is a great idea for a dedicated thread.
> 
> Best total package for $100 total
> Best total package for $200 total
> Best total package for $300 total



Feel free to steal the idea, I have no copyright on any of it


----------



## vector84

Slater said:


> Figures. One of the few KZs I don't have lol.
> 
> Maybe I'll pick one up during 11.11 sale. Or I think I saw them stupid cheap on flash sale at gearbest.


Personally I perceived a taped ES3 as having quite a bit more bass than a similarly taped ZS5.  A taped ZS5 v1 sounds a bit muddy to me, but the overall amount of bass is around the upper edge of my comfort zone.  A taped ES3 gave me a very different impression - very well defined bass comparatively, but far too much of it for me to handle for very long.

My crude measurement tools tell me I'm likely deluded though as they measure very very similarly. 
I'm also definitely not a basshead and have nothing else in that arena to compare them with so... y'know grain of salt


----------



## jaydm99

kernel8888 said:


> anyone know where I can purchase the silicone tips that come stock with the kz5s? thanks!!


You can get 20 pairs of them on ebay for less than $1


----------



## Slater

williamclarkonet said:


> Yeah its too bad Im just getting into KZs now because apparently im missed alot of good IEMs they made through the years lol.



Don't sweat it. Like any company, they keep making improvements. The KZs of 2 years ago are much better (on average) than the ones from 4 years ago. The ones you can get now are much better (on average) than the ones from 2 years ago. I can't imagine what they'll be like 2 years from now.


----------



## stryed (Oct 17, 2017)

I just received a few zs5 and Zse for friends and fam and myself , and I'm surprisingly pretty fond of the zse.  QC is ok, all around.


Coming from cheapos lke brainwaz M1,M2, M4, Pistons 3 and HD, Vivo xe800 (I like jazz sometimes), I started to try out Kz.
Fun was zs3 like anything I had ever listened to, and the slater mod made it even better, but still not the level of detail I was hoping for. Xe800 was analytic and enjoyable but definitely lacked bass and I decided to pass on the UrbanHifis.

Kze, although lacking in detail after listening closely, is confortable and simply a tiny slatered-zs3 without the hussle of having to put them over-ear.
kz5 is painfully sitting in my ears and I'm not too sure if it's due to the hard tips. Will see if they get softer. They should be v2s and the treble does not botther me ( i slighty EQed) but I'm not sure the clarity and soundstage is worth the pain.

Since both the kze and kz5 use the same tips, I'm wondering if its positioning and maybe spinfits or something similar would be better.
I've ordered foams, but the best I've ever had were soft triple flange from a brainwazs...can't seem to find any triple flanges that I got with my M4s  on the market....

Oh well...Pretty happy, slightly disapointed as Kz could have kept a more confortable design. Anyway recommendations to make these wearable?

Awaiting for swing IE800, another blatant design copy but probably comfy and with a wide soundstage.


----------



## maxxevv

khighly said:


> Total waste of time that hasn't been proven to have any effect. Snake oil. The most important part will be listening to them and letting your brain/ears adjust.



I used to think that way a long time ago but have since given it a fair chance and have been proven otherwise. 

In the old days before digital files and players, burn-in might be somewhat a chore and also it took a toll on the moving components such as the vinyl or tape or CD player or even the media in the case of tapes and vinyl records. One of course could use radio too but the quality of using that was highly subjective.  

But its more or less moot now with digital formats.  You can play a pink noise file on infinite loop for as many hours as you please while being completely free to do your other stuff. 

As for why 'burn-in' is a phenomena ( for certain aspects only that is),  is that your dynamic diaphragm or your planar/ electrostatic film are moving parts. And they need to stretch and anneal into their optimum state. Similarly for the voice coils.  

Its kind of hard to imagine for tiny stuff like that but its easier if you ever had the chance to play with quality, ground gears.  No matter how well made these gears are, when assembled, they need a little run-in so that their operational mating surfaces exactly match each other. Then can they run at their optimum.  Its why cars used to require a run-in of a few hundred kilometers before the owner is advised to push it to its limits. 

Even KZ and Urbanfun recommends it in their user instructions. Its in their instruction sheets.  

But so far for IEMS, the typical burn-in seems pretty short compared the absurd 100s of hours for some headphones and full stereos.  
I just put mine on pink noise loop,  set at about 75% of my listening volume and let them burn either overnight or the whole day while I'm at work.  It has so far proven to be enough to alter the sound to its final stable signature.  

There really is no harm to doing it so why not try ? 

Then there is the story about cables needing conditioning ..... that's on another plane of ludicrousness altogether.  For the kind of power we put through cables be it headphones, earphones or even full sized speakers, it would take literally tens of thousands of hours to register a magnetic signature onto them that actually affect their signals.  And even when it does happen, unless you play at ridiculous output levels, the human ears cannot perceive them. It would be in the 0.01 dB range of differences.   That then would be a total waste of time for so called 'burn-in'.


----------



## snip3r77

SomeGuyDude said:


> Goodbye then. I can promise we won't miss your presence.



I’m awaiting for some good deals to purchase them for my friends that loves extreme hot treble . So update me thanks


----------



## snip3r77

stryed said:


> I just received a few zs5 and Zse for friends and fam and myself , and I'm surprisingly pretty fond of the zse.  QC is ok, all around.
> 
> 
> Coming from cheapos lke brainwaz M1,M2, M4, Pistons 3 and HD, Vivo xe800 (I like jazz sometimes), I started to try out Kz.
> ...


You forgot es3


----------



## stryed (Oct 17, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> You forgot es3


From my understanding it's a better ZST mixed with a ZS3, and below the sound quality of the ZS5, but the most comfortable kz ever even though since zs3. Thought about it, but zse seemed like the better bet for the price, and it paid off. I find them under-appreciated.

Of course, playing orchestra or congested tracks like Charles mingus's will bring forth the quality of the zs5 compared to the congested zse but the pain seems unbearable on the long term !!!!!! =(

Might have to invest into spinfits to enjoy the Zs5?


----------



## maxxevv

Wiljen said:


> It would be cool to put together what people think is the best rig they can build for $100.   Would have to include DAP and a KZ headphone to stay with forum topic, but you could do a low end dap and an amp etc. as long as one could realistically expect to be able to duplicate it for $100.
> (No my buddy sold me his AK380 for $30 bs)  My starting point:
> 
> Benjie K9  $20
> ...



Benjie K9s / K10 or S5 ( they have dedicated volume buttons, the K9 doesn't ):  all are sub-US$25/- on Gearbest or Aliexpress
KZ Zs5                                                                                                                :  US$20/- on Gearbest 
Foam Tips T400/500                                                                                           :  US$2 / 2 pairs on Aliexpress
64GB Micro SD Card  Samsung Evo PLus UHS-3                                             :  US$22/-   on Gearbest
Zipper earphone case for earphone + DAP                                                         :  US$2.50/-  Aliexpress


----------



## Abe Fallorina

received my zs6, no treble cannons here.


----------



## jaydm99

Abe Fallorina said:


> received my zs6, no treble cannons here.


Where did you get yours? From local sellers?


----------



## snip3r77

stryed said:


> From my understanding it's a better ZST mixed with a ZS3, and below the sound quality of the ZS5, but the most comfortable kz ever even though since zs3. Thought about it, but zse seemed like the better bet for the price, and it paid off. I find them under-appreciated.
> 
> Of course, playing orchestra or congested tracks like Charles mingus's will bring forth the quality of the zs5 compared to the congested zse but the pain seems unbearable on the long term !!!!!! =(
> 
> Might have to invest into spinfits to enjoy the Zs5?


Upgrade cable and jvc spinfits for me


----------



## F4yze

Finally... After 1 month of waiting due to a lost package and having to repurchase the zs6 from another seller, it's finally here. And boy am I surprised! It isn't a treble cannon at all! I was expecting something like the sibilance of the gr07 BE but it didn't have that at all. I also used it with the kz upgrade cable, but not the silver version. The cable is great but I removed the memory wire because it's just annoying, and made a makeshift chin strap because it didn't have one. It didn't even need the memory wire because the cables are very light so you barely feel it on your ears. The previous IEMs I owned were the gr07 BE, carbo basso, alpha and delta ad01 and the tennmak pros, so you can consider me a basshead. The bass on the zs6 is very satisfying. Not boomy at all, and very punchy. It's a good complement to the overall sound. I love listening to female vocals like AURORA with this. I think this IEM met the hype. Really satisfied with it.


----------



## F4yze

I wish KZ sells the front part of the metal shell of the zs6 on its own. I think a green front on a black shell will look great.


----------



## CoiL

eaglesgift said:


> I take it you didn't want to share any of the songs you find have harsh treble with the ZS5 v2? It's a pity, I would have liked to find out if my hearing experiences are in any way similar to other people's on here. You do have the v2 and v1 right?


Sorry for not answering. Been at work and hard to do any song examples when I don`t have music with me. But if I recall properly, one that reminds me is Monuments - The Amanuensis guitars and vocals of The Mars Volta. And I think Tesseract - Calabi You hi-sax at the end. With some IEMs with overboosted highs those should be intolerable.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 18, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Sorry for not answering. Been at work and hard to do any song examples when I don`t have music with me. But if I recall properly, one that reminds me is Monuments - The Amanuensis guitars and vocals of The Mars Volta. And I think Tesseract - Calabi You hi-sax at the end. With some IEMs with overboosted highs those should be intolerable.


Cool, thanks, I'll have a listen later.

EDIT: I listened to some stuff from The Mars Volta and to Tesseract - Calabai Yau. Not too harsh for me on the ZS5 v2. I couldn't listen to Monuments because I really hate vocalists that shout rather than sing....in that black/death metal style or whatever you call it, but that's just a personal preference (there are quite a few bands I wish I could listen to because I like the heavy riffs they use but as soon as the singer starts up I have to switch off).

I guess either my hearing is not as sensitive as yours or my ZS5s are not quite the same. I'd need to listen for longer to see if it got tiring but the treble certainly doesn't sound harsh, shrill or piercing to me for the few minutes I did listen.


----------



## gwompki

All this chatter about the ES3 I wanted to share my impressions after a month.  I got mine for 9 bucks and if I had it to do over again, I would pass on these.  I much prefer the ZST and zs5. The bass quantity on ES3 is certainly more than the ZS5 but the quality is pretty meh.  The bass is boomy and bleeds into the mids.  I still prefer the ZST over the ES3 by a wide margin when I need something with more bass.  To top it off there is a bad solder joint on the left unit of the ES3.  Sound was going in and out when the cable moved.  I have opened it up and haven't had much luck fixing unfortunately.  Oh and for reference I use comply foam tips for ZS5, ES3, and ZST.


----------



## gazzington

So what is considered the best kz earphone for all types of listening?


----------



## snip3r77

gazzington said:


> So what is considered the best kz earphone for all types of listening?


zs5 v1 I feel


----------



## HiFiChris

F4yze said:


> I wish KZ sells the front part of the metal shell of the zs6 on its own. I think a green front on a black shell will look great.




... Or blue shells with black faceplates.


----------



## Mellowship

gazzington said:


> So what is considered the best kz earphone for all types of listening?





snip3r77 said:


> zs5 v1 I feel



I vote for the ZS5 v1 too. Been using them more than any other KZ...


----------



## VinceHill24

After reading through most but not all of the impressions on ZS6, there's 2 opposing camp where 1 side hears the hot and harsh treble and the other hears none of the treble spike or harshness. I don't think it's a result of poor QC since someone had 2 ZS6 and reported the same findings with measurements to back it up. 

I think now we can only pinpoint it down to individual hearing sensitivity as well as individual source variation. The former seems more convincing to me as everything from fitment; ear canal shape and sizes; level of sensitivity in picking up high frequency stimulus; to our brain's perception to such stimulus are different between individuals.

Anyway, the mods still works great at taming the treble peak so i guess the price is still considered well justified. The built itself is already premium enough to forgive its imperfect sound.


----------



## uncola

I just got my ZS6, I'm not an iem guy but I can agree they are treble hot.  But I'm pretty happy with them, they are high resolving of detail and have good bass.  Like people said, the sharp edges of the cnc'ed case make them slightly uncomfortable..  the looks of the metal are great though, I got the red ones with silver upgrade cable


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wiljen said:


> I can forgive a $35 Topping a lot easier than a $500 Chord.



Mmhm. That's kinda my point. When that crap's happening on a Mojo, hearing about it on a little cheapie device doesn't really surprise me.


----------



## snip3r77

SomeGuyDude said:


> Mmhm. That's kinda my point. When that ****'s happening on a Mojo, hearing about it on a little cheapie device doesn't really surprise me.


14 toppings will equal a mojo.


----------



## F4yze

After using the kz upgrade cable with the memory wire removed for a while more (the copper colored version), I did find it to irritate my ears. Although it is very light, the cable is thin so even a tiny bit of pressure over prolonged periods of time will result in the skin hurting. I'll try to either get used to it or find a solution. I still think it's better than with the memory wire intact, however.


----------



## mrmoto050

Wiljen said:


> It would be cool to put together what people think is the best rig they can build for $100.   Would have to include DAP and a KZ headphone to stay with forum topic, but you could do a low end dap and an amp etc. as long as one could realistically expect to be able to duplicate it for $100.
> (No my buddy sold me his AK380 for $30 bs)  My starting point:
> 
> Benjie K9  $20
> ...


The E07K is an amp, what are u using for DAP as suggested ?


----------



## Viber

gazzington said:


> So what is considered the best kz earphone for all types of listening?



ZS6 all the way.


----------



## Carrow

My KZ ZS5v1 set has mysteriously disappeared. monkaS 

(I paid €20 for them so can't be too disappointed, maybe I can get a V2 for a similar price if anyone finds a link? )


----------



## CoiL (Oct 18, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> Cool, thanks, I'll have a listen later.
> I guess either my hearing is not as sensitive as yours or my ZS5s are not quite the same.


Probably that`s the case. Those examples I gave are right away too much for my hearing sensitivity with boosted treble or treble spike issues IEMs.
When I get time to go through treble-rich songs, will post some more examples.

Atm I think I will jump off KZ train for a while and try DM5 as my next IEM... atm ZS6 impressions are just too contraverse and price compared to other positive feedback IEMs too high. I`m happy with my ZS5v1, though wish it had graphene bass driver for more tight&punchy&detailed lows.


----------



## Wiljen

mrmoto050 said:


> The E07K is an amp, what are u using for DAP as suggested ?


Benjie K9  (As pointed out it doesn't have separate volume controls but I use the E07 to control volume anyway).


----------



## Carrow

Anyone got an accurate measure of the ZS6 nozzle diameter? Want to order a big ol' bag of foamies from Penon but I need to make sure they have the size right!


----------



## Wiljen

snip3r77 said:


> 14 toppings will equal a mojo.



wow, just imagine the distortion created by stringing 14 of anything together.   Only thing good about that idea might be if you just love the smell of burning electronics.


----------



## BubbleWrap86 (Oct 18, 2017)

Carrow said:


> Anyone got an accurate measure of the ZS6 nozzle diameter? Want to order a big ol' bag of foamies from Penon but I need to make sure they have the size right!



5.4-5.7 mm. You need the t400/t500 size.


----------



## wastan

F4yze said:


> I wish KZ sells the front part of the metal shell of the zs6 on its own. I think a green front on a black shell will look great.


Buy a green pair and a black one, switch the fronts, sell the one you like least.


----------



## vector84

F4yze said:


> After using the kz upgrade cable with the memory wire removed for a while more (the copper colored version), I did find it to irritate my ears. Although it is very light, the cable is thin so even a tiny bit of pressure over prolonged periods of time will result in the skin hurting. I'll try to either get used to it or find a solution. I still think it's better than with the memory wire intact, however.


I don't get severe irritation from the upgrade cable, but it does rub occasionally and I've been pondering throwing a piece of shrink wrap without a memory wire over the same area where the memory wire used to be.

Haven't done anything about it just yet though, so it's still just an idea in my head thus far


----------



## vector84 (Oct 18, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Mmhm. That's kinda my point. When that ****'s happening on a Mojo, hearing about it on a little cheapie device doesn't really surprise me.


See what really bugs me about it is that Fiio apparently fixed it in the Q1 with a thin sheet of conductive plastic and better grounded shell... why is this so much to ask? 

Heck, people say it's the MAX9722 chip, but my little BT receiver uses the same chip *completely* unshielded and is impervious to EMI... guess they're running it in differential input mode or something?


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> Is the screen functional? Can you play games on it?


Man I wish I knew! Unfortunately I found this as a gif only.


----------



## Fox2twenty

Slater said:


> This is a great idea for a dedicated thread.
> 
> Best total package for $100 total
> Best total package for $200 total
> Best total package for $300 total


Please link if this happens. It's like fantasy sports!


----------



## Fox2twenty

Abe Fallorina said:


> received my zs6, no treble cannons here.


Good news.


----------



## HungryPanda

I was just about to create an inane post but didn't have the heart to do it (already beaten to it I suppose)


----------



## youngarthur

vector84 said:


> I don't get severe irritation from the upgrade cable, but it does rub occasionally and I've been pondering throwing a piece of shrink wrap without a memory wire over the same area where the memory wire used to be.
> 
> Haven't done anything about it just yet though, so it's still just an idea in my head thus far


 Maybe try some neoprene tubing, it is a bit softer. Thats what we use to make ear clips for the iSINE10/20/Monolith M300.


----------



## Spelaeus

I'm digging the new upgrade cable.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 18, 2017)

youngarthur said:


> Maybe try some neoprene tubing, it is a bit softer. Thats what we use to make ear clips for the iSINE10/20/Monolith M300.


Don't happen to have a supplier in mind for that stuff, do you?

On a quick search I can't seem to find quantities less than 100 feet or so.

I did a lousy job of searching eBay apparently...


----------



## TheVortex

Spelaeus said:


> I'm digging the new upgrade cable.



Is that the ZST upgrade cable?


----------



## Spelaeus

TheVortex said:


> Is that the ZST upgrade cable?


Yep.


----------



## bsoplinger

Spelaeus said:


> I'm digging the new upgrade cable.


What cable is that? I thought the KZ upgrade cable was the whitish 'silver' cable? Is there other options or is that a 3rd party cable?


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> What cable is that? I thought the KZ upgrade cable was the whitish 'silver' cable? Is there other options or is that a 3rd party cable?


It's the newer/alternate silver cable for the ZST - early reports suggested it was an official cable.  It was available on Amazon for a while but no longer it seems.  Can still find them on a variety of aliexpress stores, but they don't appear to be on the official KZ store.  Apparently there's actually larger variety of KZ cables that never go up for international sale.


----------



## Fox2twenty

vector84 said:


> It's the newer/alternate silver cable for the ZST - early reports suggested it was an official cable.  It was available on Amazon for a while but no longer it seems.  Can still find them on a variety of aliexpress stores, but they don't appear to be on the official KZ store.  Apparently there's actually larger variety of KZ cables that never go up for international sale.


Well it certainly looks awesome.


----------



## kokakolia (Oct 18, 2017)

I just received the KZ ATE. They're pretty impressive. They also fit my ears perfectly. They're definitely more fun sounding than the KZ ED7. I love the punchy bass. But...BUT...listening to Alex Cameron, I hear a lot of sSSSsss sounds. The earbuds just have this tendency to accentuate the SssssSSSsss. It's particularly annoying with Alex Cameron. Here's an example:


----------



## ephrank

Slater said:


> Love the ZST cable, as it always results in a better fit around the ear. Nice job bud.
> 
> I wish KZ would just standardize on that cable for all of the detachable IEMs.



Personally I much prefer the straight plugs on the ZS3 cable. Angled plugs rub agsinst my ear and become too painful after 10 minutes.


----------



## HiFiChris

Spelaeus said:


> I'm digging the new upgrade cable.



How much was the cable and how is its flexibility?


----------



## ephrank

Spelaeus said:


> I'm digging the new upgrade cable.



Great looking cable! Are they 0.75mm or 0.78mm plugs?


----------



## Lorspeaker

KZ 1week old foamies...


----------



## djmakemynight

Lorspeaker said:


> KZ 1week old foamies...



You are too hard for them, it seems.


----------



## Viber

Lorspeaker said:


> KZ 1week old foamies...



Happened to me a few times as well, you probably need foams with larger holes.


----------



## Trisse (Oct 19, 2017)

Picked up my KZ zs6 today. I have no trubble what so ever with treble. First impression is that they are a bit better then my zs5. Like a previous review, i would say the sound stage is "closer" like sitting on the front row vs sitting on the back row (zs5) 

Using it with Sabaj Da2 and nokia 8 playing flacs with UAPP.


----------



## Slater (Oct 19, 2017)

Lorspeaker said:


> KZ 1week old foamies...



Those are the gel foamies, which have no internal rubber nozzle tube to add strength and structure (and thus preventing them from doing just that). I never really liked them, but I have a bunch from the various ATx models I've bought over the years.

I do know that if you tip swap them onto something else, you must pay careful attention to the nozzle size. They are weak because they're 100% foam (with no internal tube).


----------



## Mellowship

Lorspeaker said:


> KZ 1week old foamies...


They're rubbish! I also used those foams once, in the only IEM they fitted properly, the MEE M9. Never had good results with any other IEM. 
The faux-complys from Aliexpress are much better, and have that silicone core that keeps them tight. For the ZS3, a t400 will fit perfectly.


----------



## Lorspeaker

I dont use foamies much in the past..
didnt know there are gelfoamies.. fakefoamies with bones..
yes..n the real complys 
U guys are EXPERTs..thanks!!

Was quite happy w spiral dots in the past... couldnt find a pair in my dusty candy cans.


----------



## F4yze

vector84 said:


> I don't get severe irritation from the upgrade cable, but it does rub occasionally and I've been pondering throwing a piece of shrink wrap without a memory wire over the same area where the memory wire used to be.
> 
> Haven't done anything about it just yet though, so it's still just an idea in my head thus far



Good suggestion. Annoyingly, the pain only occurs on my left ear. My right one feels totally fine. I bought a pair of ear guides from aliexpress. I'll see how well that works.


----------



## youngarthur (Oct 19, 2017)

I have been using the KZ ZS6 for a few days now, and am starting to wonder why I buy very expensive ear/headphones. These for me, need a bit of EQ, but whats not to like.If they can do these for this price, I wonder what they could do for £250!. One thing amazes me with the Chinese phones, you take them out the box, and they generally fit, without any other mods, whilst with other well known makes I have spent weeks trial and error, ah well.


----------



## F4yze

wastan said:


> Buy a green pair and a black one, switch the fronts, sell the one you like least.



I thought of that. Maybe one day when I have the spare cash


vector84 said:


> Don't happen to have a supplier in mind for that stuff, do you?
> 
> On a quick search I can't seem to find quantities less than 100 feet or so.
> 
> I did a lousy job of searching eBay apparently...



Can you help me out? I tried on aliexpress but didn't get anything good.


----------



## maxxevv

youngarthur said:


> One thing amazes me with the Chinese phones, you take them out the box, and they generally fit, without any other mods, whilst with other well known makes I have spent weeks trial and error, ah well.



Possibly because they design it primarily for the chinese / asian market, who anatomically might have smaller ear cavities, hence when exported to other markets, they have less fit issues, as generally, they are smaller in size ? 

But have to agree, if absolute quality is not a priority,  they represent tremendous value.


----------



## Slater (Oct 19, 2017)

Lorspeaker said:


> I dont use foamies much in the past..
> didnt know there are gelfoamies.. fakefoamies with bones..
> yes..n the real complys
> U guys are EXPERTs..thanks!!
> ...



I recently ran across silicones with velour type ‘fuzz’ on the outside!

I didn’t order them because 1) it makes no logical sense, 2) I’m sure they itch like heck, and 3) I’m sure the fuzz will wear off the second you insert them (falling into your ear).

Still, interesting nonetheless.

I’ll try and find a pic of them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Put the Spinfit Blades on again. I really can't decide if I prefer those or the foams.


----------



## eaglesgift

maxxevv said:


> Possibly because they design it primarily for the chinese / asian market, who anatomically might have smaller ear cavities, hence when exported to other markets, they have less fit issues, as generally, they are smaller in size ?


That doesn't make any sense?


----------



## thebigredpolos

HiFiChris said:


> How much was the cable and how is its flexibility?


I'm guessing it's the other KZ upgrade cable that's been out for a while now based on the same overall braid and terminations, and that the lighting is causing it to look a little different, but I could be wrong.  Available on Amazon here (which might not do you any good, but maybe for others?) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074H8Y76X/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3TBALX3LF68RC&colid=1KLURIQMSZMYE or AE here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-for/32819485018.html.  I have this cable as well, but didn't have the greatest fit on ZS5/ZS6 (obviously others have had better luck), so I only use it on the ZST/ES3.  Flexibility is very good, it came with memory wire which I removed.  So far it hasn't started to turn green yet, but we shall see.  Despite the titles saying 0.75mm pins, the cable I received was 0.78mm pins, which makes sense since they are advertised for the ZST (purchased from the second link).  I mainly purchased for aesthics, and don't personally notice too much different in SQ (if at all).


----------



## Lord Rexter

My two week old KZ ZS6 Red, perfect match with FiiO X5 3rd Gen DAP:


----------



## Adide (Oct 19, 2017)

Consider using a cutter knife to trim the plastic part surrounding the pins, right before it meets and extends underneath the metal housing - you'll get a more secure fit a and a slicker look.

Edit: ...that's assuming the female connector is as deep as the ZS5 one which I'm using and on which this mod is based on (not my mod, stumbled upon it same pages back in this thread).


----------



## Lord Rexter

Adide said:


> Consider using a cutter knife to trim the plastic part surrounding the pins, right before it meets and extends underneath the metal housing - you'll get a more secure fit a and a slicker look.


Sounds cool will try it out in the weekend. Thank you


----------



## Adide

See my edit for disclaimer though.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Adide said:


> See my edit for disclaimer though.


Your disclaimer was interesting so went ahead and did the mod, well someone had to try I thought better be me  it's working good and looks slicker too. Thanks again.


----------



## CoiL

What cable are u using?


----------



## Lord Rexter

CoiL said:


> What cable are u using?


That would be this: https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32819485018.html?spm=a2g0n.search-cache.0.0.419163a5C0sOXQ


----------



## CoiL

Lord Rexter said:


> That would be this: https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32819485018.html?spm=a2g0n.search-cache.0.0.419163a5C0sOXQ


Thanks! Will it fit with ZS5v1 ? Though, I anyway wish better cable for my ZSTc.


----------



## TJK81 (Oct 19, 2017)

Adide said:


> Consider using a cutter knife to trim the plastic part surrounding the pins, right before it meets and extends underneath the metal housing - you'll get a more secure fit a and a slicker look.
> 
> Edit: ...that's assuming the female connector is as deep as the ZS5 one which I'm using and on which this mod is based on (not my mod, stumbled upon it same pages back in this thread).


Recommend not to do it this way. I will make a photo to my silver plated 45deg. cable for ZS5. I patientely modify the connector to not to cut it completely off. But only to adjust the connertor to fit it directely to my ZS5. I will do the same to cable for my upcoming ZS6.
EDIT: Photo attached


----------



## oyobass

Spelaeus said:


> I'm digging the new upgrade cable.



That cable looks amazing with the metallic green.


----------



## Slater

TJK81 said:


> Recommend not to do it this way. I will make a photo to my silver plated 45deg. cable for ZS5. I patientely modify the connector to not to cut it completely off. But only to adjust the connertor to fit it directely to my ZS5. I will do the same to cable for my upcoming ZS6.



Looking forward to see what you modified.


----------



## Spelaeus

Adide said:


> Consider using a cutter knife to trim the plastic part surrounding the pins, right before it meets and extends underneath the metal housing - you'll get a more secure fit a and a slicker look.
> 
> Edit: ...that's assuming the female connector is as deep as the ZS5 one which I'm using and on which this mod is based on (not my mod, stumbled upon it same pages back in this thread).


Just did this to mine late last night. I can confirm that the housing is deep enough for the pins, and connection isn't any less secure. The only problem now is that it's much harder to verify proper polarity when plugging in the cable since you can't match the curved edges anymore. I may have to find some way to mark orientation.


----------



## Lord Rexter

CoiL said:


> Thanks! Will it fit with ZS5v1 ? Though, I anyway wish better cable for my ZSTc.


I tried the cable on ZS5 v1.0, ES3, ZST and ZS3 all work good and look great see pics


----------



## thejoker13

Well, my zs6's finally arrived after a 2 month long wait and......they're not for me. Would anyone be interested in buying a kz zs5 (version1, gray) and a black zs6? I would include a non mic cable, a mic cable and 1 silver upgrade cable along with the 2 iems. I was thinking somewhere in the 50.00 ballpark for everything. Pm me if anyone is interested.


----------



## Gianluigib

Hello guys,  i bought the bgvp dm5,  is it a step above the zs5??  Thanks


----------



## bsoplinger

Lord Rexter said:


> I tried the cable on ZS5 v1.0, ES3, ZST and ZS3 all work good and look great see pics


Interesting to see you're using foamies on all your KZ earphones. I only have the ZS5 and couldn't find a foam tip that felt comfortable. So I'd like to know what you're using. I just,  as in I've just sat down after getting the mail, gotten my gearbest package with a pair of ZS6 and the KZ foam tips along with the now older white colored silver upgrade cable since I didn't know that there were other cable choices when I ordered a few weeks ago.


----------



## Mellowship

The new kz copper cable is nice. Just got mine. Already took off the useless wire.


----------



## Adide

Slater said:


> Looking forward to see what you modified.



It's about the pic he posted already, zoom in and you'll see the protruding part thinly sculpted to fit the hole in the shell.
Bravo for the handy work and patience, it's a better mod but imo not entirely required unless you tend to get rough with the phones and put big pressure on that joint.


----------



## Slater

Adide said:


> It's about the pic he posted already, zoom in and you'll see the protruding part thinly sculpted to fit the hole in the shell.
> Bravo for the handy work and patience, it's a better mod but imo not entirely required unless you tend to get rough with the phones and put big pressure on that joint.



FYI, the pic wasn’t originally there when I left my message. He edited his post some time afterwards and added the pic.


----------



## Adide

My bad then sry nevermind, time mismatch, I thought you missed that.
I wasn't sure about it and thought additional post will follow, until I zoomed in and got what he meant.


----------



## Toastybob

VinceHill24 said:


> So apparently KZ will drop the green and bring a new grey colour for their zs6. I'm not sure why they drop the green. Copyright issue ?? Lol


How did you find out about this? I can't find any other results for that image.


----------



## ephrank

Has anyone tried this cable with ZS5?

https://www.amazon.com/****-KZ-ZS5-Replacement-Headphones/dp/B0756TQQPZ/

Nice new design - Cable might turn green inside but users won't be able to see it


----------



## vector84

F4yze said:


> I thought of that. Maybe one day when I have the spare cash
> 
> 
> Can you help me out? I tried on aliexpress but didn't get anything good.


I turned up a variety of sizes on eBay with a search for "neoprene shrink tubing". 

Here's the one I was looking at, but it might be a tight fit to slip it over the connectors.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEOPRENE-4-FEET-1-4-ID-BLACK-HEAT-SHRINK-TUBING-/350258204922

If you're willing to take the cable apart (like at the Y or something) you could probably use something smaller diameter though.
Also I did find one on ali in red btw, if ali is your thing... but it's even smaller, not sure it would easily fit over, same search though


----------



## Fox2twenty

Trisse said:


> Picked up my KZ zs6 today. I have no trubble what so ever with treble. First impression is that they are a bit better then my zs5. Like a previous review, i would say the sound stage is "closer" like sitting on the front row vs sitting on the back row (zs5)
> 
> Using it with Sabaj Da2 and nokia 8 playing flacs with UAPP.


Nice impressions. I love the soundstage on the ZS5s.


----------



## kokakolia

So I listened to the ATE some more today. I gotta say that I like them less now. The vocals sound veiled and the sibilance is distracting. It's a shame because I like the fun, punchy bass and warm tonality. I would rate them 2.5/5.

I can't wait to receive my ZSE and ZS5 later.


----------



## VinceHill24

Toastybob said:


> How did you find out about this? I can't find any other results for that image.


I'm blessed to know Chinese so it makes communication with them easier. They said it would be available soon but no idea how soon is their soon.


----------



## Fox2twenty

VinceHill24 said:


> I'm blessed to know Chinese so it makes communication with them easier. They said it would be available soon but no idea how soon is their soon.


I hope they are ready for 11 11.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 20, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> So I listened to the ATE some more today. I gotta say that I like them less now. *The vocals sound veiled and the sibilance is distracting.* It's a shame because I like the fun, punchy bass and warm tonality. I would rate them 2.5/5.



Something must be wrong with Your ATE or they have new drivers again. There can be little veil in vocals sometimes (in a good way imo, like Senn HD600/HD650) but no sibilance.
I ordered another ATE (5th gen hopefully) and ATR week ago, will post impressions vs. older versions and information about inside components when I receive them.

Btw, what tips are You using with them and what source?


----------



## Lord Rexter

bsoplinger said:


> Interesting to see you're using foamies on all your KZ earphones. I only have the ZS5 and couldn't find a foam tip that felt comfortable. So I'd like to know what you're using. I just,  as in I've just sat down after getting the mail, gotten my gearbest package with a pair of ZS6 and the KZ foam tips along with the now older white colored silver upgrade cable since I didn't know that there were other cable choices when I ordered a few weeks ago.


Yes I have foam tips on my ZS6, ZS5, ES3 and ZST.  Here's the link to the foam tips on GB: https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_631662.html


----------



## tworule (Oct 20, 2017)

Fox2twenty said:


> Yes. I purchased blue with Mic and from what I can tell there is only one BA in the nozzle.


ok my zs5 has come. I can confirm it is zs5 v1. there is only one ba visible through the grills.  I can post pics if anyone wants. it is the blue one with mic. it came with new packaging (saxophone)

I use it with fake ali comply t400s. and silver upgrade cable.I am new  so I cant describe it but as a bass-head, I like it over es3. the bass quantity and punchiness is there. only issue is when I use it with my ak10 amp, I hear crackling sounds especially at around 50 hz. (checking the foobar spectrum). I dont hear those crackling voices without the amp. I tried it with my notebook. anyone can tell why?


----------



## TJK81

Slater said:


> FYI, the pic wasn’t originally there when I left my message. He edited his post some time afterwards and added the pic.


@Slater, @Adide: Sorry guys. Slater's right. I posted the reply, made a quick shot and edited it to add the photo. Sorry for incovenience.
Regarding to Adide's post about not being necessary to cut the end how i did it.
I has two reasons.
First: Esthetics
Second: More secured fit.


----------



## vector84

tworule said:


> only issue is when I use it with my ak10 amp, I hear crackling sounds especially at around 50 hz. (checking the foobar spectrum). I dont hear those crackling voices without the amp. I tried it with my notebook. anyone can tell why?


Hard to say for sure, but first guess might be something impedance related.  If possible, try adding an attenuator of some sort to provide a more reasonable load to the amp - either series resistor (coloring) or voltage divider (non-coloring) attenuators should work to resolve the problem if it's impedance related, though obviously with differing impacts on the sound (series resistance will boost the highs).


----------



## NeonHD

Today is my lucky day guys! I somehow managed to receive both my KZ ED3 and ZSE on the same day, despite ordering them on significantly different time periods 














Both sound amazing for the price, but you know what guys? I don't think I enjoyed the earphones as much as I enjoyed receiving the new KZ starline eartips bundled with the KZ ZSE. That's right, call me crazy but the starline tips were the main highlight of my purchase 

These starline tips are MAGIC!!!!! They literally make every single one of my IEMs sound sooooo fricking good!!!! It turned my lifeless KZ HDS3 into something more energetic, and it greatly reduced sibilance in many of my IEMs. 

Based off the differences that I am hearing between these starline tips vs regular KZ tips, I can roughly tell that they do a great job at reducing high-mid to lower-treble frequencies (where harshness happens most of the time), while surprisingly enhancing the upper high frequencies.at the same time.

When I used the starline tips on my ED9 (brass-filters), the results were absolutely outstanding. Matched with the foam filter mod I did, it completely remedied the ED9's lower treble problems while further adding more detail into the upper highs, making the overall sound of the ED9 to be less *upfront*, and more *backstage*. For once, it actually genuinely felt as if sound was coming from outside/the environment rather than from the earphones. Everything was so detailed and spacious. Overall it made my ED9 sound more natural and realistic. Anyone who has the ED9 and has the starline tips surely needs to try this out. 

Don't ever use the starline tips on the ATE though, as the ATE shines through its mids and enhancing its treble and upper treble just makes it sound harsh.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Quick Summary of ZSE: Nice tight punchy bass, full detailed mids (especially regarding lower mids), and a very well peaked treble (sounds like it's peaked around 8khz, just my best guess). The open back makes for a spacious soundstage but as a result subdues the sub-bass.

Quick Summary of ED3: Nice boomy sub-bass and mid-bass, good mids but are slightly recessed, and a very bright yet inoffensive treble. The inoffensiveness is probably because there is no significant sharp peaks in the high-mids to low-treble whatsoever. I would actually prefer the ED3 over the ZSE if I'm listening to EDM. This sound signature is best suited for the focus on low-level detail and further emphasizing them for you to directly engage. Definitely the oppose of realistic sound production, with less emphasis on *background *and more emphasis on *foreground*.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Something must be wrong with Your ATE or they have new drivers again. There can be little veil in vocals sometimes (in a good way imo, like Senn HD600/HD650) but no sibilance.
> I ordered another ATE (5th gen hopefully) and ATR week ago, will post impressions vs. older versions and information about inside components when I receive them.
> 
> Btw, what tips are You using with them and what source?



Agreed on this.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Today is my lucky day guys! I somehow managed to receive both my KZ ED3 and ZSE on the same day, despite ordering them on significantly different time periods
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Glad to see someone kicking it old school with the ED3. It's a shame no one even talks about it anymore, because it's a very capable and affordable IEM.

Kudos on the HDS3 as well. I still love mine (with Starlines as well). It's my favorite micro-driver for sure, and so small and comfy.


----------



## kokakolia

CoiL said:


> Something must be wrong with Your ATE or they have new drivers again. There can be little veil in vocals sometimes (in a good way imo, like Senn HD600/HD650) but no sibilance.
> I ordered another ATE (5th gen hopefully) and ATR week ago, will post impressions vs. older versions and information about inside components when I receive them.
> 
> Btw, what tips are You using with them and what source?



In used the KZ foam tips until one fell out and got lost. The source, well, I plug them in directly into my Bose Companion 2 desktop speakers and my Zuk Z2 phone. 

I am curious about the ATR. It could be better than the disappointing ATE.


----------



## Mellowship

kokakolia said:


> In used the KZ foam tips until one fell out and got lost. The source, well, I plug them in directly into my Bose Companion 2 desktop speakers and my Zuk Z2 phone.
> 
> I am curious about the ATR. It could be better than the disappointing ATE.



The ATE used to be great. First versions were very detailed and the sound was pure honey. From the impressions I've been having, the newer ATEs are not as good. I guess KZ has ran out of the original drivers and is using other thing. Maybe the ATE is using ATR drivers now...  

The ATR, on the other hand, is a dull and unimpressive IEM, sometimes wrongly described as "neutral", because it's so boring. If neutrality is reproducing music as it was mixed with little to no coloration, the ATR is not doing it, but otherwise taking something out... like timbric accuracy in midbass...

But regarding KZ's lack of stability with their long-running line of IEMs, I really don't know if a new ATR might sound better than a new ATE or an old ATR. I guess there's only one way to know...

Regarding the tips, ATE/ATR are quite tip-dependent. They need large bores to do their magic. And usually they require foam tips a size smaller than those you usually fit in other IEMs to sound pleasing.


----------



## Wiljen

You have to wonder if KZ is at the mercy of the batch of drivers they have available as it seems that the line changes with each new batch of drivers.  I know they supposedly make their own drivers but either their QC on the driver production line is super lacking or they are sourcing them from different vendors and sometimes they get better than others.  I would think the 2nd possibility is more likely as it seems once a production line was setup it wouldn't be likely to regress or change characteristics all that spectacularly.


----------



## grahamnp

I've got a ZS5 (original version) and am super impressed with the sound but I'm having problems with the tips coming off.

Has anyone got any suggestions on how to keep them on in a non-permanent manner?  I've got a huge collection of tips at the moment and am not looking to buy a new set.


----------



## kar-re

Hey guys.
 I was planning on buying a ZS5 but now I feel lost after reading all reviews about the ZS5 v2 lol.
I was considering either these or e-mi CI880 after reading aproears reviews, but after noticing that there wasn't any other reviews of the CI880 I strongly considered the ZS5s. 

Now I'm thinking about maybe ordering a pair of ED9's and a pair of ZST? But to be honest I feel completely lost. 
I mostly listen to EDM and electronic music, but also a great deal of jazz. My last pair of iems were the yamaha EPH-100 but I unfortunately misplaced them. That's why I consider the ED9s.

Do you guys have any input? I'm happy for all help I can get.


----------



## Mellowship

grahamnp said:


> I've got a ZS5 (original version) and am super impressed with the sound but I'm having problems with the tips coming off.
> 
> Has anyone got any suggestions on how to keep them on in a non-permanent manner?  I've got a huge collection of tips at the moment and am not looking to buy a new set.



The ZS5 will use t400-t500 inner diameter tips. And they tend to stay in place. Maybe your nozzle is dirty with oil from your skin, and the inner section of the tips is oily too, and that will not help the tips stay in place. I suggest you clean the nozzles with a damp cloth and wash the tips in water with some neutral soap. Let everything dry and attach again.


----------



## maxxevv

kar-re said:


> Hey guys.
> I was planning on buying a ZS5 but now I feel lost after reading all reviews about the ZS5 v2 lol.
> I was considering either these or e-mi CI880 after reading aproears reviews, but after noticing that there wasn't any other reviews of the CI880 I strongly considered the ZS5s.
> 
> ...



Have no experience with the ED9 and ZST but if you have good source files, both the CI880 and ZS5v2 do well with Jazz such Diana Krall. ZS5 does better for House / Dance stuff such as Deep Dish and Ministry of Sound ( albums from way back in '05 and '06).  

But if you like delicate vocals accompanied by light acoustic instrumentation, or just acoustic instruments alone then CI880 will probably sound better ( to my ears at least ) as there is less of the bass 'filler' and greater emphasis on the treble details on these.  Outside of these and most classical music where details are important to me, the ZS5 does better. They are very good for energetic music with plenty of bass punch and details.  Some people complain that they are bright but I have no issues with listening to them both for hours, though there are earphones like the XE800 and the Swing IE800 that I can't do for more than an hour.  So in that aspect, I don't consider them 'bright' at all. And I listen to both of them on their stock silicone tips.


----------



## wastan

kar-re said:


> Hey guys.
> I was planning on buying a ZS5 but now I feel lost after reading all reviews about the ZS5 v2 lol.
> I was considering either these or e-mi CI880 after reading aproears reviews, but after noticing that there wasn't any other reviews of the CI880 I strongly considered the ZS5s.
> 
> ...



My first impression of the CI 880

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-826#post-13792059


----------



## kar-re

maxxevv said:


> Have no experience with the ED9 and ZST but if you have good source files, both the CI880 and ZS5v2 do well with Jazz such Diana Krall. ZS5 does better for House / Dance stuff such as Deep Dish and Ministry of Sound ( albums from way back in '05 and '06).
> 
> But if you like delicate vocals accompanied by light acoustic instrumentation, or just acoustic instruments alone then CI880 will probably sound better ( to my ears at least ) as there is less of the bass 'filler' and greater emphasis on the treble details on these.  Outside of these and most classical music where details are important to me, the ZS5 does better. They are very good for energetic music with plenty of bass punch and details.  Some people complain that they are bright but I have no issues with listening to them both for hours, though there are earphones like the XE800 and the Swing IE800 that I can't do for more than an hour.  So in that aspect, I don't consider them 'bright' at all. And I listen to both of them on their stock silicone tips.





wastan said:


> My first impression of the CI 880
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-826#post-13792059



Thank you both for your help. I've decided to bite the bullet and order the ZS5 even tho it was v2. I also ordered the ZS3 as a backup lol. 
I hope they're going to be good nonetheless!


----------



## kokakolia

Mellowship said:


> The ATE used to be great. First versions were very detailed and the sound was pure honey. From the impressions I've been having, the newer ATEs are not as good. I guess KZ has ran out of the original drivers and is using other thing. Maybe the ATE is using ATR drivers now...
> 
> The ATR, on the other hand, is a dull and unimpressive IEM, sometimes wrongly described as "neutral", because it's so boring. If neutrality is reproducing music as it was mixed with little to no coloration, the ATR is not doing it, but otherwise taking something out... like timbric accuracy in midbass...
> 
> ...



Perhaps it's time to retire the ATE/ATR. They're older models and around the same price as the newer models. Heck, the ZSE is dirt cheap. And the ZS5 is only $20 now, so why not?


----------



## kokakolia

I just realized that the Marshall Mode is only $25 on amazon now. That's peanuts! Especially for something that used to be $100 several years ago. It's an amazing deal if you're into a dark sounding sound signature with smooth treble and fun bass. The build quality is also way better. The Mic rocks too. Chi-Fi isn't the bargain it used be! 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00O...shall+mode&dpPl=1&dpID=51RbTNwKiFL&ref=plSrch


----------



## Mellowship

kokakolia said:


> Perhaps it's time to retire the ATE/ATR. They're older models and around the same price as the newer models. Heck, the ZSE is dirt cheap. And the ZS5 is only $20 now, so why not?


Maybe you're right. The ATE, if KZ kept the same driver and, thus, the same sound signature, would be an all-time classic. An old ATE with a better (maybe changeable) cable would always be a great option in prices up to 10 $. 
But the way they are now, when you can't tell if you're going to get a good sounding or an odd sample, thet should be discontinued..,


----------



## tworule

kar-re said:


> Thank you both for your help. I've decided to bite the bullet and order the ZS5 even tho it was v2. I also ordered the ZS3 as a backup lol.
> I hope they're going to be good nonetheless!


I have received zs5 v1 from gearbest . The blue -with mic version. If you are interested... I i


----------



## Gabbaking

Hey guys, heard great things about KZ earphones and looking into buying one which I use under full face motorcycle helmet. I have QCY bluetooth earphones which are painful and come off as I am sliding on the helmet.  Any suggestions for a flush fit


----------



## HungryPanda

The ZhiYin Z3000 are the flushest earphones I ever bought, I can sleep with them on


----------



## kokakolia

Gabbaking said:


> Hey guys, heard great things about KZ earphones and looking into buying one which I use under full face motorcycle helmet. I have QCY bluetooth earphones which are painful and come off as I am sliding on the helmet.  Any suggestions for a flush fit



The $25 Marshall Mode earphones on Amazon. Seriously.


----------



## Saoshyant

I've only owned one Marshall, and it was incredibly disappointing.  Really made me not want to try another.


----------



## mul1d

Could someone point out to me how to put brainwavz hm5 pads on the lps... thanks


----------



## kokakolia (Oct 20, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> I've only owned one Marshall, and it was incredibly disappointing.  Really made me not want to try another.



Yeah, well Marshall had a really rough start with their headphones. Similar to how Skullcandy headphones used to suck when the brand just launched.

The Marshall Mode is somewhat of an odd exception to the Marshall lineup. It's shocking to me that this earphone gets 0 attention. Because it's fantastic. And for $25 right now, it's simply unbeatable.

I suppose that the darker sound signature (it's oddly similar to the Sennheiser 558) won't appeal to the head-fi masses who prefer a V-shape sound with treble sparkle.

Yeah, I compared these to the Sennheiser 558. They're that good. I swear, if these had a Sennheiser logo they would easily sell like hotcakes for $99.99. They're only a measly $25. And nobody cares.

Sadly they're $50 in Canada. Grrrr...So I'm gonna give the KZ ZS5 a try.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, I do prefer 558 to 598


----------



## Skullophile

I have an idea for a ZS6 mod. Take the dampener out of the Ostry tuning tips and shove it into the nozzle of the ZS6.
Anyone tried that?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mul1d said:


> Could someone point out to me how to put brainwavz hm5 pads on the lps... thanks



Need to stretch them around the outside of the cups. It's not an elegant fit but it works.


----------



## SHAMuuu

Got the $5 KZE earbud. Not sure model name but its general iem shape, and metal. It took like 6 months to arrive. But it is really warm, iem. SO warm, i probably can wear this without a coat in Canadian winter. I guess its ok for 5 bones 





Pretty horrible stock tips. Threw some sony hybrids on em, and all is Gold.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

For five bucks y'all should be happy it didn't disintegrate and give your dog parvo. 

I know ChiFi has gotten really affordable and the cost/performance ratio is impressive, but for under ten bucks if it's making sound you're already doing pretty well.


----------



## mul1d

B9Scrambler said:


> Need to stretch them around the outside of the cups. It's not an elegant fit but it works.


Thanks,got one on will do other tomorrow. Got the standard memory foam pads, which ones are best?? Thanks


----------



## kokakolia

SomeGuyDude said:


> For five bucks y'all should be happy it didn't disintegrate and give your dog parvo.
> 
> I know ChiFi has gotten really affordable and the cost/performance ratio is impressive, but for under ten bucks if it's making sound you're already doing pretty well.



Well...Before the Beats headphone craze, most people used $10 earbuds anyway. Remember the JVC gummies? 

Also, the Koss KSC 75 are usually under $15 and they've been around for a really, really long time.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mul1d said:


> Thanks,got one on will do other tomorrow. Got the standard memory foam pads, which ones are best?? Thanks



Ive only got the hybrid pads. They seem to improve soundstage, increase treble, and reduce the mid-bass hump. Hard to go back to the original pads. Not sure what their other pads would sound like.


----------



## Aevum

so my KZ-ZS6 arrived...

First of all i ordered the wrong cable, got the ES3 silver cable instead of the of the ZS5/6,

The bee tips are meh at best, they isolate less then the complys, but then again i have a cold and my ears hurt, i have to try them again when i recover. 

the iem´s..

Im slightly disapointed with the build quality, the connector rattles a bit inside the headphone, 

sound signature wise, the KZ-ZS5 is darker and boomier, but the ZS6 is much brighter and more airey and spacious, but sometimes it feels like it falls apart or trips over itself, the sound just loses coherance, it has slightly more detail but at the cost of sounding a bit offensive. 

I have to listen more as my cold passes. but right now the KZ5 v1 is a more coherant and better sounding IEM in my opinion


----------



## bsoplinger

On the subject of KZ6, mine arrived yesterday. I've had a pair of KZ5 for about 6 weeks that I rather like. I'm using the stock KZ star silicone tips with them because I couldn't find a foamie that fit well with them. Couldn't get a decent seal so had no bass. I went through my compliment of foam tips, cee bee, noname from Gearbest (which someone linked to a few pages back), the official KZ brand and even Comply T100. Nothing gives me a decent fit and a seal that produces bass. They either seem too large so that even with pinching before insertion they just seem too large for every size other than the smallest which doesn't even seal enough to keep the IEM in my ear. 

So I ended up with the provided KZ star silicone. Trouble is that if I seat them deep enough in my ear to get bass I leave the tip behind in at least one ear *every* time I wear them. I never had that issue with the KZ5. I even went so far as to try the tips from the KZ5 on the KZ6 (although I'm positive they're identical) just to make sure. Nope, left a tip behind in my left ear . 

Granted that there haven't been tons of KZ6 reviews yet but I only saw one mention of the smooth nozzle and difficulty keeping tips on it. Am I just that odd?

Soundwise, they're very similar sounding to the rev 2 KZ5. Perhaps a touch more control on the bass and a bit brighter, perhaps. I really need some burn in time and more listening before I can offer a decent opinion. 

A pair of ZSE (that's the odd one with 2 speakers, 1 aimed into the nozzle and the other in the elongated body?) arrived because I got them on a $5 deal at Gearbest when I was ordering the KZ6. Just listened for like 5 minutes to be sure they worked and I was excited to try the KZ6. But from the little I heard they seemed very musical, nice sounding. No way can I honestly say more about bass or treble or mids on a quick listen.


----------



## vector84

Tips slipping off isn't the most common problem, but it's come up a number of times in relation to the ZS5:

If you don't want to glue the tips on (use something not too aggressive and you can remove it later, like good ol' white glue)...

The other option that came up in a few discussions about such problems was using a tip adapter type solution - clip a small rubber ring off the stem of another tip and fit it first, and then if you can work the actual tip over top of that tip adapter, it should hold quite a bit tighter.


----------



## NeonHD (Oct 21, 2017)

Slater said:


> Glad to see someone kicking it old school with the ED3. It's a shame no one even talks about it anymore.



Well I'm a bit late to the KZ party so I guess everybody already had their experiences with it and then eventually moved on to higher-end Chi-fi IEMs. This is definitely going to be the same story for me, but for now they are definitely keepers. The ZSE too.

The HDS3 is gonna stay with me all the time though. Because they're so small I've stuffed them in one of my small jean pockets for backup scenarios.


----------



## maxxevv

bsoplinger said:


> A pair of ZSE (that's the odd one with 2 speakers, 1 aimed into the nozzle and the other in the elongated body?) arrived because I got them on a $5 deal at Gearbest when I was ordering the KZ6. Just listened for like 5 minutes to be sure they worked and I was excited to try the KZ6. But from the little I heard they seemed very musical, nice sounding. No way can I honestly say more about bass or treble or mids on a quick listen.



They are very good value for the money indeed.  

Very enjoyable on energetic tracks.  They are slightly warm in signature but shine with a neutral to slightly bright playback source.   They also need a slight burn-in to sound their best. My personal set was just a simple overnight burn-in on pink noise. About 6~7 hours only. 

But there are complaints of it sounding artificial in certain aspects, but its individual I guess.  They do however don't cope very well when there's a whole load of instrumentations played at the same time. But that's not often for most people's listening habits. 

I'm waiting for my Zs6 to arrive too so as to do a comparison with the ZS5v2 I have.


----------



## NeonHD

SHAMuuu said:


> Pretty horrible stock tips. Threw some sony hybrids on em, and all is Gold.



I got a bunch of Sony hybrids from the passing away of my two MH1Cs, but recently I just realized how much mids they take out from the songs I listen to. Made it sound really thin compared to the stock KZ tips which presents sound neutrally. However in the case of the ED2 (the pair that you bought), they actually sounded quite good with them.


----------



## F4yze

I took the plunge and bought another set in green just so that I can switch the front plate . Hopefully I can sell it off and make my money back.


----------



## grahamnp

Mellowship said:


> The ZS5 will use t400-t500 inner diameter tips. And they tend to stay in place. Maybe your nozzle is dirty with oil from your skin, and the inner section of the tips is oily too, and that will not help the tips stay in place. I suggest you clean the nozzles with a damp cloth and wash the tips in water with some neutral soap. Let everything dry and attach again.



Thanks but there were like this out of the box.  Anyway, I tried cleaning them like you said and it didn't help with the stock tips, Sony Hybrids or any of the other tips (of forgotten origin) that I have.  I've never had eartips get stuck in my ears before.

I have a T400 which does seem to fit better but I've never liked Comply as the nozzle tends to fold in on itself when in my ears.  I'll give it a shot and see how it goes.


----------



## NeonHD (Oct 21, 2017)

Don't mean to rant, but I just want to say that after owning several pairs of KZ earphones, it's quite clear to me that KZ makes some of the *best *IEMs ever for dirt cheap, and it's such a pity that they are so unknown to general western consumers. I can compare any KZ model to the overpriced mainstream garbage that is Beats, and they probably all sound much better.

It's also quite sad that people generally assume that the best bang for your buck IEM are the Panasonic Ergofits. They cost like what, $7-9 USD? Yeah well at that price point you can get your hands on the KZ ED2, ED3, and ZSE and they all easily outperform the ergofits in almost every way, especially in the treble department.

These people just don't know what they're missing out on _*sigh*_. As active as this thread is, the KZ brand is pretty much super underrated and unknown out in the western world and I just hate that!

For example I just took a look at the headphones section on my local Kijiji classifieds (Canada), and all I see there are people selling super mainstream earphone brands like Beats, Bose, Monster for more than $40. I mean, if I do plan to sell my KZ earphones on Kijiji, people probably don't even know what the hell "KZ" even is, and they'll probably just skip my ad and instead buy some other dude's used Skull Candy earphones cause it's a more "trusted brand". This really infuriates me to be honest.

One day I aspire to see KZ reaching out to bricks and mortar retailers in the US and Canada, and hopefully see some KZ IEMs selling at BestBuy or Walmart. Okay maybe not BestBuy and Walmart, but some smaller tech supply chains like FactoryDirect. It doesn't even have to be a tech store. Winners is a clothing store and I've seen so many unknown earphone brands selling there, I even saw some Chi-fi IEMs there from brands such as Langsdom.


----------



## chi-fi mel

NeonHD said:


> Today is my lucky day guys! I somehow managed to receive both my KZ ED3 and ZSE on the same day, despite ordering them on significantly different time periods
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Different ears different results, which makes sense. I have tried the Starline tips on most of my collection with consistently mediocre results. I use foam tips with the ZS5, ZSE and ZS3 with very good results. Silicone tips that make a difference are hard to find. I've tried RHA and Spinfits with marginal results. There was one silicone tip that gave me close to optimum results on most earphones, and that was the Iluv 322, but I don't know if it's possible to get them anymore. They were a fairly thick silicone and that set them apart from the competition. If you know how to get those please let me know!


----------



## eaglesgift

NeonHD said:


> Well I'm a bit late to the KZ party so I guess everybody already had their experiences with it and then eventually moved on to higher-end Chi-fi IEMs. This is definitely going to be the same story for me, but for now they are definitely keepers. The ZSE too.
> 
> The HDS3 is gonna stay with me all the time though. Because they're so small I've stuffed them in one of my small jean pockets for backup scenarios.


I received my replacement ZSE phones from Gearbest yesterday (first set were faulty - hardly any sound from left hand side) and I really like them. Definitely better mids than the ZS5s (mids in a guitar amp sense not a hi-fi sense) and they seem to have good separation and soundstage too from my brief listen. I really like them. I didn't expect much for the price but I was pleasantly surprised. Gearbest replaced them promptly too, with no questions, which I was pleased about. I know they seem to have an ongoing issue with the Xiaomi Pro HDs but I will definitely buy from them in the future.

I have the HDS3s too but I thought they were really bassy when I listened to them. Maybe I should give them another listen though as I didn't spend that long with them when I got them a couple of months ago.


----------



## kokakolia

NeonHD said:


> Don't mean to rant, but I just want to say that after owning several pairs of KZ earphones, it's quite clear to me that KZ makes some of the *best *IEMs ever for dirt cheap, and it's such a pity that they are so unknown to general western consumers. I can compare any KZ model to the overpriced mainstream garbage that is Beats, and they probably all sound much better.
> 
> It's also quite sad that people generally assume that the best bang for your buck IEM are the Panasonic Ergofits. They cost like what, $7-9 USD? Yeah well at that price point you can get your hands on the KZ ED2, ED3, and ZSE and they all easily outperform the ergofits in almost every way, especially in the treble department.
> 
> ...



Well, the ergofits were the defacto cheap earbuds until KZ existed. So a lot of sites haven't bothered to update their recommendations. So the ergofits are still recommended a lot. 

Also, you criticize Beats etc...for selling " overpriced" iems at $40? Really? That's super affordable if you ask me. Consider the packaging, build quality and better than generic mic (the KZ mic is kinda quiet and sucks) and it all makes sense. And the KZ ZS6 is over $40! 

I'll sound like a broken record here but the Marshall Mode is only $25 and you get way more bang for your buck than any KZ earphone. Except maybe a KZ ZSE for under $7. That's too cheap LOL.


----------



## Spelaeus

kokakolia said:


> I'll sound like a broken record here but the Marshall Mode is only $25 and you get way more bang for your buck than any KZ earphone. Except maybe a KZ ZSE for under $7. That's too cheap LOL.


Okay, but how do you feel about the Marshall Mode?


----------



## zozito

Spelaeus said:


> Okay, but how do you feel about the Marshall Mode?





kokakolia said:


> Well, the ergofits were the defacto cheap earbuds until KZ existed. So a lot of sites haven't bothered to update their recommendations. So the ergofits are still recommended a lot.
> 
> Also, you criticize Beats etc...for selling " overpriced" iems at $40? Really? That's super affordable if you ask me. Consider the packaging, build quality and better than generic mic (the KZ mic is kinda quiet and sucks) and it all makes sense. And the KZ ZS6 is over $40!
> 
> I'll sound like a broken record here but the Marshall Mode is only $25 and you get way more bang for your buck than any KZ earphone. Except maybe a KZ ZSE for under $7. That's too cheap LOL.



Where can be found the Marshall at 25$?


----------



## eaglesgift

kokakolia said:


> Well, the ergofits were the defacto cheap earbuds until KZ existed. So a lot of sites haven't bothered to update their recommendations. So the ergofits are still recommended a lot.
> 
> Also, you criticize Beats etc...for selling " overpriced" iems at $40? Really? That's super affordable if you ask me. Consider the packaging, build quality and better than generic mic (the KZ mic is kinda quiet and sucks) and it all makes sense. And the KZ ZS6 is over $40!
> 
> I'll sound like a broken record here but the Marshall Mode is only $25 and you get way more bang for your buck than any KZ earphone. Except maybe a KZ ZSE for under $7. That's too cheap LOL.


Are Marshall sponsoring you? You've been recommending the Marshall Mode earbuds *in the KZ thread* for at least the last 9 months!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kokakolia said:


> Well...Before the Beats headphone craze, most people used $10 earbuds anyway. Remember the JVC gummies?
> 
> Also, the Koss KSC 75 are usually under $15 and they've been around for a really, really long time.



I sure do, I'm in my 30s and I've always loved headphones. You know what the funny thing was about those $10 earbuds? They sounded like complete and utter ass.


----------



## thekenta

Been out of the loop for a while.
Is there still a way to get the ZS5 v1?


----------



## xxxreyxxx

i'm interested to buy kz zs5 but i hear some issue that it has 2 variant (v1 and v2) so what should i get ?
and it's okay to buy without mic version on gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## kokakolia

SomeGuyDude said:


> I sure do, I'm in my 30s and I've always loved headphones. You know what the funny thing was about those $10 earbuds? They sounded like complete and utter ass.



Yeah! And they still sell them airports and drug stores. For around $20 (and <$10 online). These SONY earbuds have the most horrible shrieking treble.


----------



## F4yze

VinceHill24 said:


> So apparently KZ will drop the green and bring a new grey colour for their zs6. I'm not sure why they drop the green. Copyright issue ?? Lol



The green version from this massdrop looks a lot like the one in your pic. Or maybe I'm just colourblind. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kz-zs6-iems


----------



## HungryPanda

Massdrop probably hoovered up all the greens


----------



## VinceHill24

F4yze said:


> The green version from this massdrop looks a lot like the one in your pic. Or maybe I'm just colourblind. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kz-zs6-iems


Lol i couldn't believe myself that massdrop have it. There's still green from most sellers anyway, just like the case when ZS5 V2 is out and yet many sellers still ship ZS5 V1 + i believe green wasn't popular so even if it's discontinued, there'll still be plentiful available.

Anyway, just checked some of those Taobao store and apparently Grey is already available for purchased. If anyone's interested to buy from Taobao there you can get grey.


----------



## acia

thekenta said:


> Been out of the loop for a while.
> Is there still a way to get the ZS5 v1?


why zs5 v1?  still have 2 pairs collecting dust now.


----------



## tworule

thekenta said:


> Been out of the loop for a while.
> Is there still a way to get the ZS5 v1?





xxxreyxxx said:


> i'm interested to buy kz zs5 but i hear some issue that it has 2 variant (v1 and v2) so what should i get ?
> and it's okay to buy without mic version on gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


I received zs5 v1 from gearbest : the blue with mic from gearbest . I ordered at the beginning of October


----------



## SomeGuyDude

acia said:


> why zs5 v1?  still have 2 pairs collecting dust now.



The v2 thing with 2 BAs in the nozzle has everyone clamoring for the v1 as the best KZ offering.


----------



## kokakolia

So I listened to the KZ ATE for hours today using the small silicone tips that came in the box and my Zuk Z2 phone. 

Well, the treble is just as grainy and sibilant as upon the first listen. But my brain got used to the recessed vocals. So it's improving for me, I guess. 

It's especially unbearable listening to the Oasis song titled "Roll with it". 

FYI, I ordered the ATE from Banggood.com last month. So I'm assuming it's a recent production run. 

I can't wait for the ZSE and ZS5 to arrive! 

Meanwhile, I have to work all day outside with my ATE


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> Meanwhile, I have to work all day outside with my ATE


Well... try to tame them a bit. If you can't do some EQ, try foams or put a round of highs-taming material ( like coffee filters or toilet paper's ply ) out of the nozzle. Don't be afraid of do some experiments, especially on things that can't harm the IEM itself.


----------



## NeonHD

Superluc said:


> Well... try to tame them a bit. If you can't do some EQ, try foams or put a round of highs-taming material ( like coffee filters or toilet paper's ply ) out of the nozzle. Don't be afraid of do some experiments, especially on things that can't harm the IEM itself.



LOL don't remember if it was B9scrambler but someone in this thread cut a big hole into the ATE housings and put a metal mesh on it. Probably must've made it sound so good.


----------



## kokakolia

NeonHD said:


> LOL don't remember if it was B9scrambler but someone in this thread cut a big hole into the ATE housings and put a metal mesh on it. Probably must've made it sound so good.



I don't even have the tools. I may as well buy better earphones haha


----------



## B9Scrambler

NeonHD said:


> LOL don't remember if it was B9scrambler but someone in this thread cut a big hole into the ATE housings and put a metal mesh on it. Probably must've made it sound so good.



That was our resident modder and KZ baller @CoiL


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> I don't even have the tools.


Really ? you like mod-e so much 

Be constructive and open-minded. There is nothing to gain from grumbling.


----------



## charlescc2

I'm new to the KZ world (IEMs period really), just learning about it a couple weeks ago, but reading through this thread has convinced me to give the ZS5s a try.  A couple questions for you guys

1) What is the reason for people preferring v1 vs v2?



SomeGuyDude said:


> The v2 thing with 2 BAs in the nozzle has everyone clamoring for the v1 as the best KZ offering.



What are BAs?  I got the ZS5s yesterday and would like to try to figure out which I received.

2) Do you think it is necessary to buy the silver plated replacement cable?  I got one from Amazon for $11.99 and haven't gotten to test for differences yet, but I've read some saying it is a good idea.

3) What can I expect in the way of customer service from GearBest?  My left ZS5 earbud crapped out this morning randomly and now the volume sounds very low.  I'm definitely going to need a replacement and am a little concerned for how this is supposed to work since the company is based in China and it would take forever if I have to ship these back and then wait for a replacement once they receive the original.

4) Do you think it is a bad idea to switch cables constantly (maybe once a week)?  I got the Bluetooth adapter and will probably put the ZS5s on it for the gym and yard work, but otherwise will prefer using a direct cable.


----------



## Superluc (Oct 21, 2017)

charlescc2 said:


> 1) What is the reason for people preferring v1 vs v2?
> 
> What are BAs?  I got the ZS5s yesterday and would like to try to figure out which I received.
> 
> ...


1) KZ have changed the arrangement of the drivers inside the newer pairs of ZS5, making a second version of it but without change it's name. At now it seem that V2 have more unbalanced highs.
BA are Balanced Armature. Between the four drivers, two are dynamic type and two are BA. If making a flashing photo of the nozzle you see two circle instead of one, it's V2.

2) Not for sound per se, but for minimize microphonics, the noise that you can feel, especially when using an IEM, touching and rubbing the cable.

3) They normally send another pair free of change, on cheaper things. Before try to contact it's customer service, make sure that the cable is plugged correctly. See Slater sign for that.

4) To me it seem a bad idea. The female plug inside them dint feel as solid to keep changing the cable. It better to just buy another pair of them, when it is on sale.


----------



## charlescc2

Superluc said:


> *snip*



Thanks for the response.  Yeah the left earbud is secure in the cable every time.  The issue is reproduced with the original cable, silver plated cable, and wireless adapter.  I've also tried multiple sound sources to make sure I didn't do something weird to pan the audio right in my phone's music player.  Thanks for your suggestion with buying another pair to have separate wireless and wired IEMs, I think that is probably a better idea than switching repeatedly, like you said.  And I guess I'll go ahead and contact GearBest to see how the RMA process will work out.

(It seems I have v2, meh)


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 21, 2017)

I keep seeing this complaint about the ZS5v2 being too hot in the treble. But I have them and they certainly are not that to my ears.  If you want hot/bright treble, try the XE800 even if burned for 200 hours and used for another at least 100. I can't keep it on for more than an hour but I'm perfectly fine with the ZS5v2 for multi-hour sessions.

I may have missed it but has anyone who has both the V1 and V2 compared them directly yet ?  If not its just a lot of hoo-ha over nothing. Because if the ears are treble sensitive, they are treble sensitive no matter how mildly bright the earphones are.


----------



## NeonHD

B9Scrambler said:


> That was our resident modder and KZ baller @CoiL



Ah yes that's the dude I was thinking about


----------



## xxxreyxxx

tworule said:


> I received zs5 v1 from gearbest : the blue with mic from gearbest . I ordered at the beginning of October


Can you give me link that yoy ordered from gearbest?


----------



## bsoplinger

I've mentioned that I have problems with the standard silicone ear tips many of these are packaged with. I was playing around tip rolling when I thought of a few I have that came with a more expensive IEM that are different from the standard tips. They're designed to take the same about 5mm nozzle but instead of having an opening that's smaller in diameter the opening on these is larger than the nozzle sleeve diameter. I'm thinking perhaps these might help me with my wear issues because of the larger opening I won't need to push the nozzle so deep in my ear to make sure I get mids and highs along with bass from a good seal. Otherwise if I don't push the nozzle deep enough into my but stop at the point where the seal is good enough for bass I don't get much other than bass. I'm guessing that the tip is shielding the nozzle opening from my ear and only when I push it deeper into my ear is the nozzle revealed. And the deep fit is very uncomfortable for me after just a few minutes. And in most cases foam tips fail to give a good enough seal for bass.

I only listened to my new KZ6 for about a half hour or so with a pair of these wide bore nozzles but it was less uncomfortable than any other tip I've tried with them. They're starting to grow on me a bit as the highs seem to be taming down. 

I tried looking at AliExpress for 'wide bore silicone ear tip' and didn't find any that seemed to be what I'm looking for just the standard style and the pseudo spin-fit ones (the ones with the nozzle sleeve one color and the rest of the tip a different color but without the nozzle sleeve being able to rotate independently) so that didn't help. I'm hoping someone here can help with either a link to the style or the magic search phrase or other online source.


----------



## hoerlurar

Have you looked at kz whirlwinds?


----------



## tworule

xxxreyxxx said:


> Can you give me link that yoy ordered from gearbest?


https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_668330.html?wid=21
Blue with mic


----------



## tworule (Oct 22, 2017)

charlescc2 said:


> Thanks for the response.  Yeah the left earbud is secure in the cable every time.  The issue is reproduced with the original cable, silver plated cable, and wireless adapter.  I've also tried multiple sound sources to make sure I didn't do something weird to pan the audio right in my phone's music player.  Thanks for your suggestion with buying another pair to have separate wireless and wired IEMs, I think that is probably a better idea than switching repeatedly, like you said.  And I guess I'll go ahead and contact GearBest to see how the RMA process will work out.
> 
> (It seems I have v2, meh)


I had a faulty zs3 and they asked me the video of the problem. Then they accepted to refund.they did not ask me to ship back the faulty zs3


----------



## xxxreyxxx

tworule said:


> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_668330.html?wid=21
> Blue with mic


Okay thanks, but i still confuse, what is the different between v1 and v2. What is characteristic about v1 and v2


----------



## tworule

xxxreyxxx said:


> Okay thanks, but i still confuse, what is the different between v1 and v2. What is characteristic about v1 and v2


I don’t have v2 . So I cannot say. The BA s at the nozzle of v2 seems to make it treble canon. But some says not...


----------



## Aevum

Im sorry to say but after testing both ZS5 v1 and ZS6...

The ZS5 v1 by a mile.


----------



## xxxreyxxx

tworule said:


> I don’t have v2 . So I cannot say. The BA s at the nozzle of v2 seems to make it treble canon. But some says not...


Thanks for the response


----------



## eaglesgift

tworule said:


> I had a faulty zs3 and they asked me the video of the problem. Then they accepted to refund.they did not ask me to ship back the faulty zs3


How can you video a problem with IEMs? Was the video just you explaining what the problem was while holding the earphones?


----------



## xxxreyxxx

tworule said:


> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_668330.html?wid=21
> Blue with mic


Sorry i forgot something, can you give me link to silver cable? 
Thanks again


----------



## Viber

Aevum said:


> Im sorry to say but after testing both ZS5 v1 and ZS6...
> 
> The ZS5 v1 by a mile.



That's a very strange thing to say imo.

Did you try switching the cables?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Aevum said:


> Im sorry to say but after testing both ZS5 v1 and ZS6...
> 
> The ZS5 v1 by a mile.



Again, what tips? I have the v1 and the ZS6 and when I first got the 6 I was legit ready to throw them in the trash, now the 5 collects dust. I am telling you, give them time to settle and pick up some foam tips.


----------



## bsoplinger

eaglesgift said:


> How can you video a problem with IEMs? Was the video just you explaining what the problem was while holding the earphones?


They asked me to make a video of a stylus for a tablet that wasn't working. How was I supposed to show it not working? Just move it around on the tablet and say "see the cursor isn't following?"

I think its their default response to any claim of a problem with a product.


----------



## eaglesgift

bsoplinger said:


> They asked me to make a video of a stylus for a tablet that wasn't working. How was I supposed to show it not working? Just move it around on the tablet and say "see the cursor isn't following?"
> 
> I think its their default response to any claim of a problem with a product.


That sounds reasonable in your case but I was asked by a local supplier to make a video of a problem concerning a DAP with a battery that was draining to 0% over a period of about 5 days (as I mentioned in this thread or another previously). I couldn't see the point so I didn't do it. It seemed to me like they were simply trying to make customers jump through hoops in order to discourage them from returning defective products. Just to be clear, this was not Gearbest but a local company in Thailand.


----------



## charlescc2

eaglesgift said:


> How can you video a problem with IEMs? Was the video just you explaining what the problem was while holding the earphones?



Seriously sitting here wondering the same thing.  The volume difference between the crap left IEM and right one is very noticeable when listening, but whether I can make that clear in a video?  Ehh.



SomeGuyDude said:


> Again, what tips? I have the v1 and the ZS6 and when I first got the 6 I was legit ready to throw them in the trash, now the 5 collects dust. *I am telling you, give them time to settle and pick up some foam tips.*



Does burning in make a big difference with KZs, or I guess IEMs in general?  How long are we talking if so?

Also I've seen many people saying to get tips separately, could you explain why we should get foam tips?  What difference do they make, and is it a preference thing or an objective quality difference thing?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

charlescc2 said:


> Does burning in make a big difference with KZs, or I guess IEMs in general?  How long are we talking if so?
> 
> Also I've seen many people saying to get tips separately, could you explain why we should get foam tips?  What difference do they make, and is it a preference thing or an objective quality difference thing?



I'm not talking some insane thing. Just give them a bit. Plenty of time within the return window.

Tips 100% make a difference in sound. Whether it's better or worse comes down to preference, but if the treble is too peaky, the foams will iron that out nicely.


----------



## Aevum

I´ve tried Bee tips and comply.


----------



## Lord Rexter

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm not talking some insane thing. Just give them a bit. Plenty of time within the return window.
> 
> Tips 100% make a difference in sound. Whether it's better or worse comes down to preference, but if the treble is too peaky, the foams will iron that out nicely.


Yes I agree just listen to the music you like for a week on ZS6 they'll grow on you, they certainly did for me. I'm using ZS6 as a daily driver now.

I have the biggest New Bee foam tips on them: https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_609044.html


----------



## Trisse

So I have a KZ bluetooth cable Im pretty happy with. When I got it it was speaking english but somehow i managed to change the settings so now the girl is speaking Chinese. Does anybody now how to change back to english?


----------



## tworule (Oct 22, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> How can you video a problem with IEMs? Was the video just you explaining what the problem was while holding the earphones?


Well right ear piece had no sound so, I closed the nozzle of both iems with my finger while playing music and then take out my finger one by one. It was obvious rthat one of the iems was not producing any sound. Sorry about my English  here is the video: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8vkricat...Aa?dl=0&preview=Video+17.10.2017+21+02+27.mov


----------



## tworule

xxxreyxxx said:


> Sorry i forgot something, can you give me link to silver cable?
> Thanks again


https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html

But there seems to be better alternatives on aliexpress


----------



## eaglesgift

tworule said:


> Well right ear piece had no sound so, I closed the nozzle of both iems with my finger while playing music and then take out my finger one by one. It was obvious rthat one of the iems was not producing any sound. Sorry about my English  here is the video: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8vkricat...Aa?dl=0&preview=Video+17.10.2017+21+02+27.mov


Thanks! The problem seems very clear on the video you made.


----------



## Rilke

Did somebody bought their Zs6 from Gearbest last weekend ? Mine isn't shipped yet. After reporting  that my adress got somehow messed up. They told me that they are going to intercept my parcel and send it to right adress. But since then the customer service answered random stuff to all my inquiries with no precise information.


----------



## BubbleWrap86

Rilke said:


> Did somebody bought their Zs6 from Gearbest last weekend ? Mine isn't shipped yet. After reporting  that my adress got somehow messed up. They told me that they are going to intercept my parcel and send it to right adress. But since then the customer service answered random stuff to all my inquiries with no precise information.




I placed my order on the third of October. At the time that I placed the order, the site showed that it would ship the next day from their warehouse. The order displayed "processing" for six days, then "packed" for another two or three days, before finally showing that it had been shipped. I even paid for expedited shipping, yet the tracking info is only showing that a label has been printed. I've sent four messages to them on facebook and keep getting the same generic responses, no less than two days later. This is my first order with gearbest and will be my last.

Regarding your issue, they shouldn't have to intercept your package at all, since it hasn't even been shipped yet. They only have to modify your address for the shipping label. Best of luck to you!


----------



## Saoshyant

Mine was supposedly shipped out the 28th, but nothing since.  Gearbest's tracking is always awful


----------



## HungryPanda

They are pretty slow but it always arrives eventually


----------



## Superluc

Saoshyant said:


> Mine was supposedly shipped out the 28th, but nothing since.  Gearbest's tracking is always awful


When you have the code, don't look on "View Tracking Message", that is worthless, but copy that code on some tracking site. They normally link one of them, depends of what shipping you have choose.

Example:
Azerbaijan Air Mail: Oct 20, 2017 2:00:00 AM PST
*Tracking Number: WHENITCOMESITCOMES111111*


----------



## Mariusik (Oct 22, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> They are pretty slow but it always arrives eventually


Hello, i saw that you are the only one who wrote some impressions about the Svara red, thanks to Vidal's review and help i bought the CI880  and really like them very much, but i was thinking about the BossHiFi B3 and UrbanFun Berylium based on the reviews, i'd like a tad more bass and a little warmer IEM, i found the Svara red on Ali at 32 dollars without the cable,i was wondering if you had any experince with the BossHIFi (hybrid) or the UrbanFun Berylium(i read that the HiFi model is pretty similar with the E-MI CI880). Also, i have small ears and the E-mi with the medium stock tips fit well, but if i move a little,they tend to slip out of my ears, i already ordered some foam tips. Thanks.

Edit: Sorry for the offtopic, i thought i was posting in the Chinese / Asian thread.


----------



## RomStar

Hey guys, I'm mostly a lurker and it seems the Comply T400 are the best option for my Zs5. I've seen a few other links to cheaper alternatives like the bees and what not, can anyone please confirm if i have to shell out the extra for comply? Or are the bees good enough? I would also appreciate if anyone can just give me general advice and direct me to a cheap alternative otherwise I'll just get the comply ones ^^




Lord Rexter said:


> Yes I agree just listen to the music you like for a week on ZS6 they'll grow on you, they certainly did for me. I'm using ZS6 as a daily driver now.
> 
> I have the biggest New Bee foam tips on them: https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_609044.html



Yo man, nice setup, so what u thinking of the zs6 so far? I like the all red look ^^, and for u is the bee tips good enough? Dunno if I wanna get zs6 or just wait for the zs7s, I don't really want a small incremental upgrade


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Hey guys, I'm mostly a lurker and it seems the Comply T400 are the best option for my Zs5. I've seen a few other links to cheaper alternatives like the bees and what not, can anyone please confirm if i have to shell out the extra for comply? Or are the bees good enough? I would also appreciate if anyone can just give me general advice and direct me to a cheap alternative otherwise I'll just get the comply ones ^^


Depends what you need... nothing else isolates like real Comply, but the cheap knock offs are a lot more comfortable imo.  Both should do a decent job of taming highs, but I can't say more beyond that... I stopped buying real Comply because it was like paying an exorbitant fee to torture myself 

As for a link, this seller has popped up several times, hard to beat for value and customizable orders too. Can't say I've ordered any from there myself yet, but plenty of others around here have, I believe.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30p...-memory-foam-eartips-for-ear/32749249112.html


----------



## charlescc2

RomStar said:


> Hey guys, I'm mostly a lurker *and it seems the Comply T400 are the best option for my Zs5*. I've seen a few other links to cheaper alternatives like the bees and what not, can anyone please confirm if i have to shell out the extra for comply? Or are the bees good enough? I would also appreciate if anyone can just give me general advice and direct me to a cheap alternative otherwise I'll just get the comply ones ^^



You'll need the T500s if you go the Comply route for the ZS5s.  The T400s are for the ZS3, the T500s are for the ATE, ZS5 and ZST.

http://www.complyfoam.com/Compatibility


----------



## wastan

Mariusik said:


> Hello, i saw that you are the only one who wrote some impressions about the Svara red, thanks to Vidal's review and help i bought the CI880  and really like them very much, but i was thinking about the BossHiFi B3 and UrbanFun Berylium based on the reviews, i'd like a tad more bass and a little warmer IEM, i found the Svara red on Ali at 32 dollars without the cable,i was wondering if you had any experince with the BossHIFi (hybrid) or the UrbanFun Berylium(i read that the HiFi model is pretty similar with the E-MI CI880). Also, i have small ears and the E-mi with the medium stock tips fit well, but if i move a little,they tend to slip out of my ears, i already ordered some foam tips. Thanks.
> 
> Edit: Sorry for the offtopic, i thought i was posting in the Chinese / Asian thread.


The urbanfun hybrid is more neutral sounding than the E MI Cl880. If you want more bass you're probably right to look elsewhere.


----------



## RomStar

vector84 said:


> Depends what you need... nothing else isolates like real Comply, but the cheap knock offs are a lot more comfortable imo.  Both should do a decent job of taming highs, but I can't say more beyond that... I stopped buying real Comply because it was like paying an exorbitant fee to torture myself
> 
> As for a link, this seller has popped up several times, hard to beat for value and customizable orders too. Can't say I've ordered any from there myself yet, but plenty of others around here have, I believe.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30p...-memory-foam-eartips-for-ear/32749249112.html



Thanks a lot mate, u saved me $9 ^^

That's basically another cheap IEM for me lol, I'll just go with them. As someone mentioned do these have the T500? Apparently that's for the ZS5s, I'm mostly looking to tame the highs ^^

Thanks again and have a good day!


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Thanks a lot mate, u saved me $9 ^^
> 
> That's basically another cheap IEM for me lol, I'll just go with them. As someone mentioned do these have the T500? Apparently that's for the ZS5s, I'm mostly looking to tame the highs ^^
> 
> Thanks again and have a good day!


Mostly the cheap chi-foams don't differentiate between T400 and T500 sizes - and the 4.9mm size works just fine for the ZS5.


----------



## RomStar (Oct 23, 2017)

Also guys quick question, was I lucky enough to get rivision 1? Looks like I have the single BA nozzle one, lucky cuz I ordered this around September ^^


----------



## acia

RomStar said:


> Also guys quick question, was I lucky enough to get rivision 1? Looks like I have the single BA nozzle one, lucky cuz I ordered this around September ^^


 
what makes version 1 more desirable than version 2?

since having zs6, all the zs5 v1 have been retired.


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 23, 2017)

Nope, that's a V2, simply because the BA isn't dead center on the nozzle.

If you look carefully again by , tilting the earpiece in multiple angles,  you should be able to make out 2 round circles behind the mesh not just 1.  Its pretty hard to spot in most cases and practically impossible if you try to photograph it without some luck.

Edit :  Added a pict of my ZS5v2.


----------



## xxxreyxxx

tworule said:


> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html
> 
> But there seems to be better alternatives on aliexpress


Okay Thanks


----------



## Lord Rexter

RomStar said:


> Hey guys, I'm mostly a lurker and it seems the Comply T400 are the best option for my Zs5. I've seen a few other links to cheaper alternatives like the bees and what not, can anyone please confirm if i have to shell out the extra for comply? Or are the bees good enough? I would also appreciate if anyone can just give me general advice and direct me to a cheap alternative otherwise I'll just get the comply ones ^^
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you, to my ears the ZS6 is a little clearer, has better detail retrieval and bass is fast/punchy not boomy. The new bee foam tips are better than the original Comply tips, they do a great job at mellowing down the treble of ZS6.
in my opinion ZS6 are a clear improvement on ZS5 in terms of build and sound. So you might want to wait for a great GearBest deal and order them.  Hope this helps.


----------



## eaglesgift

maxxevv said:


> Nope, that's a V2, simply because the BA isn't dead center on the nozzle.
> 
> If you look carefully again by , tilting the earpiece in multiple angles,  you should be able to make out 2 round circles behind the mesh not just 1.  Its pretty hard to spot in most cases and practically impossible if you try to photograph it without some luck.
> 
> Edit :  Added a pict of my ZS5v2.


Do we know when the v2 first appeared? I thought I ordered my first set quite early on (May 26th) but looking at them now, I am almost certain they have 2 BAs in the nozzles.


----------



## eaglesgift

eaglesgift said:


> Do we know when the v2 first appeared? I thought I ordered my first set quite early on (May 26th) but looking at them now, I am almost certain they have 2 BAs in the nozzles.


Thinking about it, it can't be possible but if there's only one BA, it isn't centred.


----------



## maxxevv

According to this diagram, the the ZS5v1 BA is located co-axially with the earpiece nozzle.  

Note the centreline of the BA nozzle versus the earphone nozzle centreline.


----------



## vector84

maxxevv said:


> Nope, that's a V2, simply because the BA isn't dead center on the nozzle.


V1 isn't centered, it's against the wall of the nozzle near the front of the IEM:


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> Do we know when the v2 first appeared? I thought I ordered my first set quite early on (May 26th) but looking at them now, I am almost certain they have 2 BAs in the nozzles.


I believe it was VinceHill24 that first reported the existence of the v2 long before anyone had one in hand.  Again going off memory, I believe he said KZ told him that they began shipping out v2s in early August.


----------



## Rilke

BubbleWrap86 said:


> I placed my order on the third of October. At the time that I placed the order, the site showed that it would ship the next day from their warehouse. The order displayed "processing" for six days, then "packed" for another two or three days, before finally showing that it had been shipped. I even paid for expedited shipping, yet the tracking info is only showing that a label has been printed. I've sent four messages to them on facebook and keep getting the same generic responses, no less than two days later. This is my first order with gearbest and will be my last.
> 
> Regarding your issue, they shouldn't have to intercept your package at all, since it hasn't even been shipped yet. They only have to modify your address for the shipping label. Best of luck to you!


Finally it has been shipped  .  In a message they said it can tracked after 7 days. So let's see.


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Also guys quick question, was I lucky enough to get rivision 1? Looks like I have the single BA nozzle one, lucky cuz I ordered this around September ^^


BA near the front wall - my guess would be a v1, but check different lighting / angles / move your head and the light around and you should be able to see better if there is indeed a second circle.


----------



## acia

maxxevv said:


> Nope, that's a V2, simply because the BA isn't dead center on the nozzle.
> 
> If you look carefully again by , tilting the earpiece in multiple angles,  you should be able to make out 2 round circles behind the mesh not just 1.  Its pretty hard to spot in most cases and practically impossible if you try to photograph it without some luck.
> 
> Edit :  Added a pict of my ZS5v2.


anyone cares to explain why v1 is better than v2?


----------



## maxxevv

It isn't. Its just some people who claim that it has hotter treble for the V2.  But that's not the impression my ears have for them. In fact, I find the bass and treble separation on the V2s to be nicer compared to the V1s which a friend has. As in the bass doesn't muffle out the treble details as much on the V2s comparatively.  

Caveat :  That's what my ears hear, so its highly subjective. And to me, they are not 'hot' in terms of treble either.


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 23, 2017)

acia said:


> anyone cares to explain why v1 is better than v2?


Assuming my blue ones from May are v1 and my grey ones from a few weeks ago, which 100% have two BAs, are v2, v1 is not better than v2 in my opinion.


----------



## eaglesgift

maxxevv said:


> It isn't. Its just some people who claim that it has hotter treble for the V2.  But that's not the impression my ears have for them. In fact, I find the bass and treble separation on the V2s to be nicer compared to the V1s which a friend has. As in the bass doesn't muffle out the treble details as much on the V2s comparatively.
> 
> Caveat :  That's what my ears hear, so its highly subjective. And to me, they are not 'hot' in terms of treble either.


I just spent a few minutes going back and forth between the two versions as fast as I could, just listening to the guitar chords on the intro to Back in Black, and they sounded brighter on the v1s. On the v2s they sounded a little more detailed and had slightly more weight/impact if that makes any sense. Pretty much the opposite of what I was expecting.


----------



## vector84

acia said:


> anyone cares to explain why v1 is better than v2?


Better is subjective.

In measurable terms, there's a big spike in treble energy around 7-10kHz on the v2 as compared to the v1.  There's also changes to the DD configuration that are less well categorized.

As for the treble spike - people seem to expect it to translate simply based on what a 10kHz sine wave sounds like... but that's not how our hearing works.  Mostly the perceptions of such a spike will fall into one of two camps: a) very detailed treble, or b) sharp/hot treble


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> Better is subjective.
> 
> In measurable terms, there's a big spike in treble energy around 7-10kHz on the v2 as compared to the v1.  There's also changes to the DD configuration that are less well categorized.
> 
> As for the treble spike - people seem to expect it to translate simply based on what a 10kHz sine wave sounds like... but that's not how our hearing works.  Mostly the perceptions of such a spike will fall into one of two camps: a) very detailed treble, or b) sharp/hot treble


What instruments are going to be making noises at 7-10kHz? I can't think of any offhand. Would it only be percussion?


----------



## vector84

eaglesgift said:


> What instruments are going to be making noises at 7-10kHz? I can't think of any offhand. Would it only be percussion?


Percussion and vocals can contain larger amounts of energy there, but it's mostly harmonics and overtones that it's influencing, hence translating poorly versus a pure tone.


----------



## Saoshyant

Superluc said:


> When you have the code, don't look on "View Tracking Message", that is worthless, but copy that code on some tracking site. They normally link one of them, depends of what shipping you have choose.
> 
> Example:
> Azerbaijan Air Mail: Oct 20, 2017 2:00:00 AM PST
> *Tracking Number: WHENITCOMESITCOMES111111*



Oh I did try using the tracking number on different sites and it comes up as a non-existent number.  Hopefully they actually sent it out.


----------



## Trisse

Someone got a clue how to change language settings on my Bluetooth module? Somehow I managed to change the settings so when I start/ shutdown the headset it's on Chinese.


----------



## eaglesgift

vector84 said:


> Percussion and vocals can contain larger amounts of energy there, but it's mostly harmonics and overtones that it's influencing, hence translating poorly versus a pure tone.


Thanks. I'm not hearing any treble spikes from the v2s - not really sure why. My hearing may have deteriorated somewhat but I can hear test frequencies up to 18 kHz so I'd have thought I'd be able to hear them. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise; my eyesight is 20/40 or perhaps a little worse but I rarely wear glasses because the world looks so messy when it's completely in focus. I'm thinking I might have a hearing deficiency that means treble spikes don't bother me either


----------



## vector84

Trisse said:


> Someone got a clue how to change language settings on my Bluetooth module? Somehow I managed to change the settings so when I start/ shutdown the headset it's on Chinese.


Don't have one, but here's some stuff to try:
https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-cha...ooth-headset-language-from-Chinese-to-English


----------



## bsoplinger

Saoshyant said:


> Oh I did try using the tracking number on different sites and it comes up as a non-existent number.  Hopefully they actually sent it out.


I've always used 17track.net for tracking shipping from Chinese stores. I use Deliveries Package Tracker by oRRs on my Android devices. The author is great about adding or correcting the various shippers. As soon as the gearbest web site shows any tracking information (its usually tracking information sent to shipper) I add it to the app and it tracks it well.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> LOL don't remember if it was B9scrambler but someone in this thread cut a big hole into the ATE housings and put a metal mesh on it. Probably must've made it sound so good.



Coil came up with the idea a few years ago, and he even made wood cover plates.

I used the stock cover plates and metal mesh from some old Apple earbuds.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1106#post-13350513

You also have to close off a vent on the nozzle with tape or glue.

The mod makes a big difference with the ATE. It's not even the same IEM with the mods; no comparison with stock.


----------



## vegetaleb

11.11 of Aliexpress is not far and like every year I intend to get a new pair of KZ 
I think I am gonna get the ZS5, the ZS6 got not so good reviews specially for the price/SQ
The ZS5 instead would be a great upgrade over my ZS3, If it's about 25-28$ today it should be in the 15$ at the 11.11 no?


----------



## youngarthur

vegetaleb said:


> 11.11 of Aliexpress is not far and like every year I intend to get a new pair of KZ
> I think I am gonna get the ZS5, the ZS6 got not so good reviews specially for the price/SQ
> The ZS5 instead would be a great upgrade over my ZS3, If it's about 25-28$ today it should be in the 15$ at the 11.11 no?


I have the ZS3/5/6, and quite a few others, and in this group, my go to is the ZS6. The 3, seems to lack instrument separation to a degree, the 5 is better at it, but for me, the 6 has it, good separation,depth, width etc. I won't get into bass/ mid/ treble, that for you to decide.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 23, 2017)

I'm planning on getting a pair or two of SpinFit CP100-M's. Would they work well on KZ's IEMs like the ZS3 or the ZS6?


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> 11.11 of Aliexpress is not far and like every year I intend to get a new pair of KZ
> I think I am gonna get the ZS5, the ZS6 got not so good reviews specially for the price/SQ
> The ZS5 instead would be a great upgrade over my ZS3, If it's about 25-28$ today it should be in the 15$ at the 11.11 no?



Be aware that it’s very possible that you’ll receive the ZS5 v2, which has tuning very similar to the ZS6. The ZS5 v1 is harder to find nowadays, and there’s no easy way to tell which version it is without inspecting down inside of the nozzle under the mesh screen.

Most sellers have no clue that there’s even a difference, much less what to look for (and how to do it). And that’s assuming they’re even willing to check by visual inspection (the same issue I had when trying to track down a ZS1 v1).

So if your plan is to get the ZS5 to somehow avoid the sound changes reported with the ZS6, you may be in for a surprise.

It might be easier to just get a ZS6 for the better build (metal housing). The treble isn’t as bad as many make it out to be. I actually like the ZS6; it’s different than the ZS5 v1, but I think it’s better overall (especially if you use foam tips).


----------



## xrk971 (Oct 23, 2017)

Interesting to hear that there is a V2 with dual BA nozzles aimed into the ear canal.

I can confirm that these T400 clone tips from eBay or Aliexpress work very well. Super fit and comfortable. Boosts the bass too with better seal.

http://s.aliexpress.com/IRjiEf2Y

So looking at exploded diagram of ZS-6 now. I like the metal shell. I see a vented cover with mesh grill. This concerns me because one thing I like about the ZS-5 is that they are sealed (relatively except for tiny bass reflex port) and are quite good at isolating outside noise.  A absolute requirement for me as a commuter on a noisy bus/train. Can anyone comment on the isolation if they have received theirs yet?


----------



## mono-type

mono-type said:


> I'm planning on getting a pair or two of SpinFit CP100-M's. Would they work well on KZ's IEMs like the ZS3 or the ZS6?


Addendum on my own question: Should I get SpinFit CP100-M's or should I get foams instead (like Comply T-400's)? I plan on primarily using the aforementioned tips on my ZS6, as I'm looking on how could I tame the treble a bit; it's quite sibilant to my tastes.


----------



## Slater

xrk971 said:


> Interesting to hear that there is a V2 with dual BA nozzles aimed into the ear canal.
> 
> I can confirm that these T400 clone tips from eBay or Aliexpress work very well. Super fit and comfortable. Boosts the bass too with better seal.
> 
> ...



Actually, the ZS5 has a number of vents, all along the “seam” where the back cover attaches to the shell. It looks like there’s a ‘gap’ in the seam, but if you look carefully you’ll notice all of the vents.

The ZS6 seals the cover at the shell, and moves all of the vents to the rear cover (in addition to increasing the overall area of the vents).

As far as the effect of the vent configuration on the ZS5 vs the ZS6, I have only noticed a slight difference in soundstage between the 2 (ZS6>ZS5), but as far as isolation ZS5>ZS6.


----------



## xrk971

Hi Slater,
Thanks for the clarification on isolation of ZS5 vs ZS6.  Dang, never would have seen those micro vents on the "seam" unless you told me about them. Good to hear from you again... hope you are enjoying your amp still. 
Cheers,
X


----------



## Mellowship

xrk971 said:


> Interesting to hear that there is a V2 with dual BA nozzles aimed into the ear canal.
> 
> I can confirm that these T400 clone tips from eBay or Aliexpress work very well. Super fit and comfortable. Boosts the bass too with better seal.
> 
> ...


Yes those tips work wonders! I use them in most IEMs with excellent results. Only in those that are hard to fit I use silicone ones. The ZS3 is great with foams but I always get a hard time twisting them around my ears to get a comfy fitting.


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2017)

Mellowship said:


> Yes those tips work wonders! I use them in most IEMs with excellent results. Only in those that are hard to fit I use silicone ones. The ZS3 is great with foams but I always get a hard time twisting them around my ears to get a comfy fitting.



FYI, if you look for foam tips that are listed as “slow rebound”, it helps because after you squish it with your fingers it takes longer to expand back into shape. This gives you extra time so that you can get the IEM inserted (pulling back on the top of the ear), twisted around, and situated in place etc before the foam expands and locks everything into place

Some foam tips rebound faster, and really don’t give you enough time. The KZ gel foam tips are like this as well, which is yet another reason why I’m not fond of them.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> FYI, if you look for foam tips that are listed as “slow rebound”, it helps because after you squish it with your fingers it takes longer to expand to shape. This gives you extra time so that you can get the IEM inserted (pulling back on the top of the ear), twisted around, and situated in place etc before the foam expands and locks everything into place
> 
> Some foam tips rebound faster, and really don’t give you enough time. The gel foam tips are like this as well, which is yet another reason why I’m not fond of them.


Yes, and even in this Comply imitation tips, they tend to rebound at different rates depending on colour. I have the impression the darker the tips, the fastest the rebound. Black ones also seem slightly harder than the light greys or the red/blue ones. Go figure that out...


----------



## xrk971

I like using red for Right and blue for Left channels. Makes it so very easy to identify correct earpiece. I just did a quick unscientific test and indeed red one rebounds slower by about 2 seconds vs blue.  Both are slow enough (ca. 5 sec) to allow fitting into ear.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 23, 2017)

Since we're talking foam tips here (I already asked a page ago, but I seemed to be ignored lol T.T), what works best with the ZS6? Should I get foam tips like the Comply T400 or should I settle for SpinFit CP100-M (in which I'm kinda leaning to buy)? I am aiming for taming the treble, as I said earlier, the ZS6 is a bit sibiliant to my tastes.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If you're looking to tame the treble, go foams. I grabbed the Bees off Amazon and they're perfect (5-7mm).

Spinfits are awesome, but the regular spinfits don't really work for the ZS series because they're not a deep insertion IEM. The Blades, the cp240-m, do work a lot better, but I still prefer the foams for these.


----------



## RomStar

Firstly thanks all for answering my questions, ultimately I went for the Bee tips cuz of 2 reason. One: It was 20$ cheaper than comply lol. Two: I paid 8$ to get it shipped within a week, not bad I guess. 

Secondly, thanks a lot for clarifying the difference between Revision 1 and 2. As far as I understand Rev 2 is more zs6 esque with the dual BA at the nozzle. I know sound is *subjective* but I watched *DSM3 TV* retract his statement very recently. He says he no longer recommends Rev 2 of Zs5 due to the treble spike. Now I didn't blindly take his words, but I trust him and I'm a bit confused. And if the V2 sounds anything like the ZS6, apparently the treble is over whelming. That's what I saw in all the ZS6 reviews 

Kinda wish I had a V2 to compare against, but alas I can't. However I am getting the Swing Ie800, which is apparently treble centric but amazing supposedly, guess we will see ^^





vector84 said:


> BA near the front wall - my guess would be a v1, but check different lighting / angles / move your head and the light around and you should be able to see better if there is indeed a second circle.



Thanks for letting me know, after looking back I could not see any 2nd BA. Just a question tho, what do some mean by this Revision 1 utilizes only 3 drivers? That confuses me :0


----------



## xrk971

mono-type said:


> Since we're talking foam tips here (I already asked a page ago, but I seemed to be ignored lol T.T), what works best with the ZS6? Should I get foam tips like the Comply T400 or should I settle for SpinFit CP100-M (in which I'm kinda leaning to buy)? I am aiming for taming the treble, as I said earlier, the ZS6 is a bit sibiliant to my tastes.



I recommend the mucho inexpensive T400 clones. I can't justify $20/set for comply's.


----------



## Wiljen

RomStar said:


> Thanks for letting me know, after looking back I could not see any 2nd BA. Just a question tho, what do some mean by this Revision 1 utilizes only 3 drivers? That confuses me :0



No, both versions have 2 BA per side.  In version 1 a single BA is in the nozzle and the 2nd is in the main body of the IEM.  In Version 2 both BAs are in the nozzle.


----------



## Viber

So... Can we finally assume that the rumor about a Double Driver ZS3 was just a rumor?

I really love the ZS3's shell, i'm disappointed that i dont hear anything about "the new model" anymore.


----------



## TJK81

vector84 said:


> Better is subjective.
> 
> In measurable terms, there's a big spike in treble energy around 7-10kHz on the v2 as compared to the v1.  There's also changes to the DD configuration that are less well categorized.
> 
> As for the treble spike - people seem to expect it to translate simply based on what a 10kHz sine wave sounds like... but that's not how our hearing works.  Mostly the perceptions of such a spike will fall into one of two camps: a) very detailed treble, or b) sharp/hot treble



Can you post some measurement of the ZS5 v2? i don't wanna to offend you. But i saw measurments/graphs of the v1 and ZS6 only. Expecting the v2 have similar spike to ZS6 at aprox 11-14kHz.


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> Actually, the ZS5 has a number of vents, all along the “seam” where the back cover attaches to the shell. It looks like there’s a ‘gap’ in the seam, but if you look carefully you’ll notice all of the vents.
> 
> The ZS6 seals the cover at the shell, and moves all of the vents to the rear cover (in addition to increasing the overall area of the vents).
> 
> As far as the effect of the vent configuration on the ZS5 vs the ZS6, I have only noticed a slight difference in soundstage between the 2 (ZS6>ZS5), but as far as isolation ZS5>ZS6.



And if at the 11.11 the ZS5 is in the 15ish $ and the ZS6 above 35$, is the SQ difference enough to justify such a gap in price?


----------



## Wiljen

TJK81 said:


> Can you post some measurement of the ZS5 v2? i don't wanna to offend you. But i saw measurments/graphs of the v1 and ZS6 only. Expecting the v2 have similar spike to ZS6 at aprox 11-14kHz.



Hi-FIChris posted a graph of all three  - go back a few pages and it is there.   It was very shortly after the release of the Zs6 when He and I were the only ones that had them.


----------



## Wiljen

I'm really hoping to find an LZ-A4 at a good discount on 11.11.   Probably will grab a couple more Magaosi K3s for the wife and daughter if they come down at least $25 or so.  Would love to see them on sale at $50 but doubt we will see a price quite that good.


----------



## Superluc

Viber said:


> So... Can we finally assume that the rumor about a Double Driver ZS3 was just a rumor?
> 
> I really love the ZS3's shell, i'm disappointed that i dont hear anything about "the new model" anymore.


It's not a rumor. 

Hillsonicaudio as proved to be a trustfully report for what KZ tell at the retailer shops. If KZ have delayed that model a bit there is no need, as for now, to thinking that the production of that model was canceled or the info may be just a baseless rumor.

See here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BZ01BrBFvjc/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio


> Waiting for new KZ launches? Probably gotta be more patient for it then ... ZS4 and ZSR will probably be long still, month end or early November will likely be the new expected launch date.


----------



## Saoshyant

bsoplinger said:


> I've always used 17track.net for tracking shipping from Chinese stores. I use Deliveries Package Tracker by oRRs on my Android devices. The author is great about adding or correcting the various shippers. As soon as the gearbest web site shows any tracking information (its usually tracking information sent to shipper) I add it to the app and it tracks it well.



17track can't find the number either, and about a month since ordering.


----------



## TJK81

Wiljen said:


> Hi-FIChris posted a graph of all three  - go back a few pages and it is there.   It was very shortly after the release of the Zs6 when He and I were the only ones that had them.


Just checked HifiChris web site. No mention about measurments of the V2. Just v1 and ZS6... and comparison of both. Maybe i searched wrongly.


----------



## Superluc

Saoshyant said:


> 17track can't find the number either, and about a month since ordering.


It may depends also on the shipment type you have choose. Try something different next time.


----------



## Wiljen

TJK81 said:


> Just checked HifiChris web site. No mention about measurments of the V2. Just v1 and ZS6... and comparison of both. Maybe i searched wrongly.



I misspoke it was Hakuzen that posted them.  Start on page 1525 in this thread and he has FR charts for the Zs5 and Zs6 over about the next 4 or 5 pages of the thread.


----------



## HiFiChris (Oct 23, 2017)

TJK81 said:


> Just checked HifiChris web site. No mention about measurments of the V2. Just v1 and ZS6... and comparison of both. Maybe i searched wrongly.



Nope, you're correct, I've only heard and measured the ZS5 v1 (one unit) and ZS6 (two units), and have never heard or measured the ZS5 v2.

PS: For anyone mentioning me or any other user, it is advised to use "@" (such as "@HiFiChris") so that the user gets a notification that he was mentioned and can reply, since not everybody is always on every thread wherefore an important question or remark could be overlooked.


----------



## Viber

Superluc said:


> It's not a rumor.
> 
> Hillsonicaudio as proved to be a trustfully report for what KZ tell at the retailer shops. If KZ have delayed that model a bit there is no need, as for now, to thinking that the production of that model was canceled or the info may be just a baseless rumor.
> 
> See here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BZ01BrBFvjc/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio



Ok, thats something to hold on to.
Thanks!


----------



## AudioObsession

eaglesgift said:


> I just spent a few minutes going back and forth between the two versions as fast as I could, just listening to the guitar chords on the intro to Back in Black, and they sounded brighter on the v1s. On the v2s they sounded a little more detailed and had slightly more weight/impact if that makes any sense. Pretty much the opposite of what I was expecting.



I think I'm one of the few people that is actually HOPING I end up getting a ZS5 **V.2**
I ordered mine (Gray, ,WITHOUT Mic) on September 26 (my first order on GearBest) and yeah, their tracking information is definitely awful.. It's rather nerve wrecking not knowing if it will even arrive, I ordered a ES3 (that I LOVE!) only 1/2 hour or so before I ordered my ZS5 yet the ES3 arrived over a week ago.. Why??? :-/ ... 

But again I secretly hope the ZS5 a V.2.

The main reason I'm hoping this is, it seems like the V.2 is the best way to get a very close taste of what the ZS6 sounds like.. 
Am I correct in assuming this??
Thanks!


----------



## TJK81

Wiljen said:


> I misspoke it was Hakuzen that posted them.  Start on page 1525 in this thread and he has FR charts for the Zs5 and Zs6 over about the next 4 or 5 pages of the thread.


I'm familiar with @hakuzen measurments. Maybe i'm dumb but IMO he never provided measurement of the v2. He has ZST's, ES3's, ZS5v1 and ZS6's and provided measurments with different kind of tips and cables.


----------



## eaglesgift

AudioObsession said:


> I think I'm one of the few people that is actually HOPING I end up getting a ZS5 **V.2**
> I ordered mine (Gray, ,WITHOUT Mic) on September 26 (my first order on GearBest) and yeah, their tracking information is definitely awful.. It's rather nerve wrecking not knowing if it will even arrive, I ordered a ES3 (that I LOVE!) only 1/2 hour or so before I ordered my ZS5 yet the ES3 arrived over a week ago.. Why??? :-/ ...
> 
> But again I secretly hope the ZS5 a V.2.
> ...


I haven't heard the ZS6 so I'm afraid I can't answer your question but they do at least have the BA drivers in the same position so you could be right. I ordered the ZS5 Grey without mic from Gearbest too, as I'd read posts by one or two others on this thread who got the v2 that way, so I think you have a very good chance of getting the v2 as well.

I definitely prefer it to the v1.


----------



## hakuzen

TJK81 said:


> I'm familiar with @hakuzen measurments. Maybe i'm dumb but IMO he never provided measurement of the v2. He has ZST's, ES3's, ZS5v1 and ZS6's and provided measurments with different kind of tips and cables.


yep, i never measured a ZS5 v2 either, because didn't get success in getting a pair after 2 tries at gearbest (second pair was defective, btw; had to make a video of the inverted plug in one driver to get a refund, although photos were self-explicative); shipping methods have changed at gearbest to worse, so don't know if i'll try again.


----------



## vector84

TJK81 said:


> Can you post some measurement of the ZS5 v2? i don't wanna to offend you. But i saw measurments/graphs of the v1 and ZS6 only. Expecting the v2 have similar spike to ZS6 at aprox 11-14kHz.





AudioObsession said:


> The main reason I'm hoping this is, it seems like the V.2 is the best way to get a very close taste of what the ZS6 sounds like..
> Am I correct in assuming this??
> Thanks!


I want to say there were a couple crude ones posted elsewhere, but I'm not sure if they ever made it to this thread (and sadly I didn't bookmark any of them or anything).  If they're out there though, chances are decent they weren't taken with anywhere near the same level of standards compliant equipment that @hakuzen brings to the table though, so comparing them would be... questionable at best.  Remember how you're not supposed to do that for data past 7kHz on different measurement rigs? 

And as far as I know, the v2 has never had an impedance curve posted, so information about how it reacts to sources rather limited.
My *guess* would be the v2 has a FR shaped like the ZS6, but impedance shaped like the v1, *but that's just a guess.*


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TJK81 said:


> Can you post some measurement of the ZS5 v2? i don't wanna to offend you. But i saw measurments/graphs of the v1 and ZS6 only. Expecting the v2 have similar spike to ZS6 at aprox 11-14kHz.



IEM measurements need a shitload of qualifications dude.

I have the v1 and ZS6 and that gnarly treble spike really did go away after I put the foams on and just let them "settle" a bit.


----------



## kiler

Soooo I am a bit late to the party, but I've left my thoughts on the KZ ZS5 here :https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/reviews#review-19353

Video coming soon as well


----------



## hakuzen

well, i'll try to get a zs5 v2 again for the team. blue one this time, all gray ones i got were v1. fine tuning my rig meanwhile..


----------



## hakuzen

any good coupon for blue zs5 (mic/no mic) at gb now?


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> any good coupon for blue zs5 (mic/no mic) at gb now?


The generic KZ coupon for -16% still works "GBKZ"

But there have been some way better short-term coupons popping up for them recently over in the GB thread.


----------



## Viber

hakuzen said:


> any good coupon for blue zs5 (mic/no mic) at gb now?



Gray no mic ZS5 is  15.99$  with code: GBGGK40


----------



## hakuzen

Viber said:


> Gray no mic ZS5 is  15.99$  with code: GBGGK40


thanks. tried gray (no mic) twice: v1 both. i'll aim to blue ones this time


----------



## Viber

hakuzen said:


> thanks. tried gray (no mic) twice: v1 both. i'll aim to blue ones this time



Well, i think it's logical that the Blues are more likely to be V1 while the Grays are more likely to be V2.
The reason?  the Gray version was cheaper at launch and thus sold more in it's early days.

I would just buy the ZS6 instead of trying to buy "the right" ZS5 again and again (and again  )


----------



## DeltaRay

Viber said:


> Well, i think it's logical that the Blues are more likely to be V1 while the Grays are more likely to be V2.
> The reason?  the Gray version was cheaper at launch and thus sold more in it's early days.
> 
> I would just buy the ZS6 instead of trying to buy "the right" ZS5 again and again (and again  )


Second this. On the other hand if you want to get a v1, there’s a higher likelihood of you go for the blue. Even higher if you opt for the mic.

I placed an order for the blue mic end of sept (29) and got a v1.


----------



## mrmoto050

bsoplinger said:


> On the subject of KZ6, mine arrived yesterday. I've had a pair of KZ5 for about 6 weeks that I rather like. I'm using the stock KZ star silicone tips with them because I couldn't find a foamie that fit well with them. Couldn't get a decent seal so had no bass. I went through my compliment of foam tips, cee bee, noname from Gearbest (which someone linked to a few pages back), the official KZ brand and even Comply T100. Nothing gives me a decent fit and a seal that produces bass. They either seem too large so that even with pinching before insertion they just seem too large for every size other than the smallest which doesn't even seal enough to keep the IEM in my ear.
> 
> So I ended up with the provided KZ star silicone. Trouble is that if I seat them deep enough in my ear to get bass I leave the tip behind in at least one ear *every* time I wear them. I never had that issue with the KZ5. I even went so far as to try the tips from the KZ5 on the KZ6 (although I'm positive they're identical) just to make sure. Nope, left a tip behind in my left ear .
> 
> ...


I'm using t500 Comply tips and they fit great, they stay in my ears with a good seal and stay on the tip.


----------



## hakuzen

Viber said:


> Well, i think it's logical that the Blues are more likely to be V1 while the Grays are more likely to be V2.
> The reason?  the Gray version was cheaper at launch and thus sold more in it's early days.
> 
> I would just buy the ZS6 instead of trying to buy "the right" ZS5 again and again (and again  )


i repeat: tried gray ones twice, one of them recently. both v1. i'm even doubting there is a v2, lol..
got zs6 already (btw, enjoying them with foams + a little eq). the only reason to seek for a v2 is to be able to measure them (fr, impedance..) and dissipate doubts for the team.


----------



## mrmoto050

HungryPanda said:


> Massdrop probably hoovered up all the greens


There are plenty greens available on Amazon.


----------



## hakuzen

of course, it would be easier if someone likes to send me their true and verified v2 to measure them..


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> I'm really hoping to find an LZ-A4 at a good discount on 11.11.   Probably will grab a couple more Magaosi K3s for the wife and daughter if they come down at least $25 or so.  Would love to see them on sale at $50 but doubt we will see a price quite that good.



Hmmm, I'd be shocked if you're going to see K3 at $50 unless they are one of the counterfeits. 1 member in the K3 thread bought some directly from the Magaosi CEO at an Asian electronics/audio show (I think it was 1clearhead but don't quote me on that) and pretty sure he paid COST (around $50 if I recall). The exact price is in the K3 thread if you want to search for it. But the bottom line is $50 is probably a pipe dream :0)

If they are selling for that, I'll pick up a spare set. Because I got bent over a barrel when I bought my original set for $130ish. So I won't feel so bad if I score a set for dirt cheap, because it will offset the 1st pair.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> There's no way in heck you're going to see K3 at $25 unless they are one of the counterfeits. 1 member in the K3 thread bought some directly from the Magaosi CEO at an Asian electronics/audio show (I think it was 1clearhead but don't quote me on that) and he supposedly paid COST which was around $45-$50 if I remember correctly. The exact price is in the K3 thread if you want to search for it. But the bottom line is $25 is a pipe dream :0)



He said if they come down $25 not if they come down _to _$25 LMAO.


----------



## Slater

mrmoto050 said:


> There are plenty greens available on Amazon.



Gearbest has plenty of greens. I just ordered a pair tonight since they are on sale again (stupid cheap ie $30).


----------



## Slater

SomeGuyDude said:


> He said if they come down $25 not if they come down _to _$25 LMAO.



haha, I saw that and revised my post. Still think $50 is a pipe dream (and $25 would be considered robbery LOL) ;0)


----------



## maxxevv

If you guys are looking forward to 11:11,  then do go visit the Ali site in the 2 weeks or so run-up to the day. If its as per last year, there will be pre-sales and games and even discount coupons to be won/bought during this period.  Remember last year there were some coupons for like US$50/- that could be bought for US$20 if you had played some games and accumulated some tokens. I missed those.  I snagged a stackable 10% discount coupon on any single purchase / merchant purchase in the run-up though.  

Worth the time if you plan on some heavy purchases.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> The generic KZ coupon for -16% still works "GBKZ"
> 
> But there have been some way better short-term coupons popping up for them recently over in the GB thread.



Yeah, I just ordered a pair a few days ago for $12.99

That's ridiculous.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> haha, I saw that and revised my post. Still think $50 is a pipe dream (and $25 would be considered robbery LOL) ;0)



My hope was to see them drop by $25 to $75 or so.  I would be happy with anything below the $75 mark.   I agree, below $50 and I'd start wondering if I was getting a fake.   My short-list for 11.11 is the LZ-A4, the SW3, and the 1More Quad if any is available at a substantial savings.


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> My hope was to see them drop by $25 to $75 or so.  I would be happy with anything below the $75 mark.   I agree, below $50 and I'd start wondering if I was getting a fake.   My short-list for 11.11 is the LZ-A4, the SW3, and the 1More Quad if any is available at a substantial savings.



You should be fine them.

Last year at 11.11 they were $70ish.

The problem is that Magaosi has MAP pricing. So once a few sellers dropped to $70 in the few days leading up to 11.11, other sellers complained and the whole plug got pulled for ALL sellers offering the K3. At the time you could only message sellers for secret unadvertised discounts. It caused quite the ruckus last year.


----------



## briank996

Lord Rexter said:


> Yes I agree just listen to the music you like for a week on ZS6 they'll grow on you, they certainly did for me. I'm using ZS6 as a daily driver now.
> 
> I have the biggest New Bee foam tips on them: https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_609044.html


Would you be able to share a bit about how you got that cable to fit?

Thanks!


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Hmmm, I'd be shocked if you're going to see K3 at $50 unless they are one of the counterfeits. 1 member in the K3 thread bought some directly from the Magaosi CEO at an Asian electronics/audio show (I think it was 1clearhead but don't quote me on that) and pretty sure he paid COST (around $50 if I recall). The exact price is in the K3 thread if you want to search for it. But the bottom line is $50 is probably a pipe dream :0)
> 
> If they are selling for that, I'll pick up a spare set. Because I got bent over a barrel when I bought my original set for $130ish. So I won't feel so bad if I score a set for dirt cheap, because it will offset the 1st pair.



How many ears do you have?


----------



## bsoplinger

*sigh* I just realized that I've ordered 3 pairs of ZS6. I had completely forgotten about ordering one from ali when I was ordering a bunch of foam ear tips. So when I got the notification that the gearbest order, from having used the discount code posted here for both a set of ZS5 and ZS6, was shipping I realized my mistake.

Maybe my cat needs a pair for when she watches TV when I'm gone


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> How many ears do you have?



Not enough apparently haha


----------



## briank996 (Oct 23, 2017)

briank996 said:


> Would you be able to share a bit about how you got that cable to fit?
> 
> Thanks!


NM I figured it out, just cut the plastic shroud completely off.


----------



## hakuzen

Lorspeaker said:


> KZ 1week old foamies...





Lorspeaker said:


> I dont use foamies much in the past..
> didnt know there are gelfoamies.. fakefoamies with bones..
> yes..n the real complys
> U guys are EXPERTs..thanks!!
> ...


measured ZS6 with these gel foamies.. they didn't have same effect than comply or regular foamies (silicon tube inside). they tamed the 8kHz peak, but not the 10-11kHz peak.
got tons of them, though, because they are useful to make your own DIY symbios: just cut the bottom part of the foam and insert it into a silicone tip, around the inner tube. you get better isolation if needed, without taming highs like regular foamies. used with spiral dots ("spisymbs"?), kz starline ("symbstars"?), and many others.
btw, ordered regular foams, together with some complys, for the zs6. found this place in ali which provides every size and color: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...-earphones-enhanced-bass-Ear/32741636522.html


----------



## EISENbricher

Hello guys, long time no see. Literally posting on head-fi after almost an year.
My trusted ED9 is facing wear and tear issues after using it for almost 1.5+ years. Now looking for a new KZ..

Which is a best choice below $20 currently? Will order ED9 again if it's still the best choice. Thx in advance : )


----------



## Lord Rexter

briank996 said:


> Would you be able to share a bit about how you got that cable to fit?
> 
> Thanks!


I took a knife to cut the white plastic portion, pretty simple


----------



## young59

Can someone give the link to the gb thread I can't seem to find it.I didn't even knew about the "GBKZ" coupon would like to keep a track on coupons.


----------



## Lord Rexter

briank996 said:


> NM I figured it out, just cut the plastic shroud completely off.


Black and Green combo is AWESOME. I'll get Black ZS6 delivered to me this week or early next week, will do a Red and Black combo and post the pics here


----------



## Lord Rexter

young59 said:


> Can someone give the link to the gb thread I can't seem to find it.I didn't even knew about the "GBKZ" coupon would like to keep a track on coupons.


Here you go: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/10-...-color-options-30-99-meizu-ep52-33-99.832367/


----------



## eaglesgift

hakuzen said:


> i repeat: tried gray ones twice, one of them recently. both v1. i'm even doubting there is a v2, lol..
> got zs6 already (btw, enjoying them with foams + a little eq). the only reason to seek for a v2 is to be able to measure them (fr, impedance..) and dissipate doubts for the team.


How recently did you get a v1 Grey from Gearbest? I only ask because I got a v2 a few weeks ago and I've seen a couple of other posts from people who also got v2 when ordering Grey no mic ZS5 from Gearbest.


----------



## hakuzen

eaglesgift said:


> How recently did you get a v1 Grey from Gearbest? I only ask because I got a v2 a few weeks ago and I've seen a couple of other posts from people who also got v2 when ordering Grey no mic ZS5 from Gearbest.


first one: ordered 7 sep , shipped 10 sep, received 26 sep.
second one: ord 22 sep, shipped 29 sep, received 10 oct.
both gray no mic, both v1, 2nd one defective, got a refund without having to return them.

i've been listening to v1 for some hours, using the new ofc gray cable and stock starline tips and an ultra low output impedance source (no coupling caps).
maybe these zs5 and the cable needed some more burn-in (?), they sound good with same songs, but not so good with others.
after some hours, had to change to zs6 (foams + some minor eq).
zs5 v1 is very finicky about sources, and i could say even about cables, due to its extreme low impedance (i was listening to them using lower resistance cables -the 6 cores with metallic straight jack- days ago, and got the impression of more songs sounding better; maybe my mood was responsible). btw, they need quiet more power than zs6 to reach same volume; i suspect they have lower sensitivity than zs6 (shall measure sensitivity soon), together with higher phase, more current needed.. batteries run out faster.

resuming, i've decided to follow your suggestions, not trying to get a v2, which would be probably worse than zs6 (no "crossover", harsher upper mids and highs, and more finicky overall -output impedance tricks won't be effective to tame the highs-). got a black zs6 instead, using the v1 refund plus the new coupon, to combine with my green ones (liked the look of @briank996 's ).
if someone wants v2 to get measured, just send me them for a few days..


----------



## mono-type

SomeGuyDude said:


> If you're looking to tame the treble, go foams. I grabbed the Bees off Amazon and they're perfect (5-7mm).
> 
> Spinfits are awesome, but the regular spinfits don't really work for the ZS series because they're not a deep insertion IEM. The Blades, the cp240-m, do work a lot better, but I still prefer the foams for these.


Thanks for the heads-up regarding the SpinFits, as I'm really considering buying the CP-100M's. Good thing I've read your reply so I could save my money on something else! I don't see any CP-240M's yet locally; it looks like I could only get it through AliExpress etc. in the mean time. Regarding the "Bees", are you referring to the New Bee foam tips? Just want to make sure.



xrk971 said:


> I recommend the mucho inexpensive T400 clones. I can't justify $20/set for comply's.


Same thing here regarding Comply tips. Let's see if I could find those T400 knockoffs locally. And also, how about KZ's own foam tips? I heard they get torn easily, based on what I've read on this thread.


----------



## eaglesgift

hakuzen said:


> first one: ordered 7 sep , shipped 10 sep, received 26 sep.
> second one: ord 22 sep, shipped 29 sep, received 10 oct.
> both gray no mic, both v1, 2nd one defective, got a refund without having to return them.
> 
> ...


Ordered mine on Sept. 14th. Must just be luck of the draw then.


----------



## Wiljen

I threw a set of the Kinden tips off Amazon in with some other stuff I needed (non-audio) and they seem to be the same foamie as the Ali version and arrive in 2 days with Prime.  I think they were $6 for 5 pairs so a bit more than Ali but I was out of mid sized foams that the wife and daughter use.


----------



## Tweeters

Just got my ZS5 from Gearbest I ordered on Sept. 30th, it's a v1. Grey no mic


----------



## kar-re

I've been negotiating with the gearbest support team for a couple of days now and I'm pretty mad at the response-rate of the customer service dude I'm talking with. I guess that's to be expected tho, LOL.

First I ordered a pair of zss5 and one pair of zs3s, and I chose expedited shipping, and after a while they sent out a support ticket asking if I would pay more because I live in an remote area. I replied OK and they sent out an invoice. 
But after I read that the blue ones with mic might be v1 I thought this was the perfect opportunity to switch the headphones, so I asked in the same support ticket if they could change it. The support replied OK but that I would have to pay 42,74 USD extra. 

I was like what? The difference is less than a dollar for me. I kind of panicked, thought to my self that I'll order another pair of blue zs5s without the expedited shipping, and after that i canceled the 42,74 USD invoice they sent.
I summarized all this in a message to them, but they've yet to reply back, and my second order is already shipping LOL, with my expedited shipping still being "processed" after not getting a reply.
It's the journey that counts, not the destination, right guys?


----------



## maxxevv

That is so random. I ordered mine September 22, received them 2nd October. They were the Ver2.


----------



## BubbleWrap86

kar-re said:


> I've been negotiating with the gearbest support team for a couple of days now and I'm pretty mad at the response-rate of the customer service dude I'm talking with. I guess that's to be expected tho, LOL.
> 
> First I ordered a pair of zss5 and one pair of zs3s, and I chose expedited shipping, and after a while they sent out a support ticket asking if I would pay more because I live in an remote area. I replied OK and they sent out an invoice.
> But after I read that the blue ones with mic might be v1 I thought this was the perfect opportunity to switch the headphones, so I asked in the same support ticket if they could change it. The support replied OK but that I would have to pay 42,74 USD extra.
> ...



I'm on day 6 waiting for a response... I feel your pain.


----------



## Rilke

I have some silly questions :

Does the Zs6 sound more open than usual  cheap Ch-IEM's ? How would you compare them with some earbuds like monk + or vido ?

Does they hurt your ears ? I personnalu have medium small ears. Some people reported that they hurt.


----------



## AndrewPL

my KZ ZS6 with switched panels, which one looks better, left or right?


----------



## Viber

wow, ZS6 is 26$ now on GB with code "EPHIFI1 " for green, "EPHIFI2" for red.

That's a great price for the sound.

Only for:
HK,US,CA,SG,MY,TW,GB,IE,AU,NZ,IN,ZA,MK,SK,RO,CZ,HR,BG,SI,RS,SK,CZ


----------



## groucho69

AndrewPL said:


> my KZ ZS6 with switched panels, which one looks better, left or right?



Keep it as it is. Love it.


----------



## HiFiChris (Oct 24, 2017)

AndrewPL said:


> my KZ ZS6 with switched panels, which one looks better, left or right?



Looks great!

I personally slightly prefer the left combination.

/edit: Nah, looking at it for longer, I don't. Both look great and I cannot decide.


----------



## sman789

AndrewPL said:


> my KZ ZS6 with switched panels, which one looks better, left or right?


Left. Black with red accent is nice!.


----------



## TJK81

Both looks great. What about to wear them as they are. One ear red/black combination, other ear black/red combination.


----------



## sman789

If I have the ZS5s (not sure if they're v1 or v2, treble isn't an issue, and I think they sound great) should I even think about getting the ZS6s? They're only $26 right now but I have so many headphones and iems lol.


----------



## TJK81

maxxevv said:


> That is so random. I ordered mine September 22, received them 2nd October. They were the Ver2.


Mine was purchased Sept.7th, dispatched Sept.9th, recieved Sept.25th
Version 2, Grey w/o mic.


----------



## Jed1998

sman789 said:


> If I have the ZS5s (not sure if they're v1 or v2, treble isn't an issue, and I think they sound great) should I even think about getting the ZS6s? They're only $26 right now but I have so many headphones and iems lol.





AndrewPL said:


> my KZ ZS6 with switched panels, which one looks better, left or right?



Hi there. Since you're much much more experienced can you please let me know is the ZS6 a good buy for 32$?


----------



## groucho69

sman789 said:


> If I have the ZS5s (not sure if they're v1 or v2, treble isn't an issue, and I think they sound great) should I even think about getting the ZS6s? They're only $26 right now but I have so many headphones and iems lol.



You can have too many?


----------



## djmakemynight

groucho69 said:


> You can have too many?



This never get old. You can never have too many.


----------



## BrunoC

Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?


----------



## groucho69

BrunoC said:


> Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?



Not for long.


----------



## loomisjohnson

BrunoC said:


> Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?


not a real one


----------



## djmakemynight

BrunoC said:


> Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?



Your post reminded me to update my list. Now I am a real head fier.


----------



## Mellowship

BrunoC said:


> Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?


Go for 40 instead of 10 and you'll get a couple of them noob members with just two handfuls of iems. Thank you China...


----------



## JimJames

Just saw the video from DMS3 TV in which he says that some of the drivers from the kz zs5 didn't do anything and that now they do, but it produces a big spike in treble. Do people who have got the v2 think alike and if so, how annoying is it? I guess they must've done the same thing with the zs6?


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Yeah, I just ordered a pair a few days ago for $12.99
> That's ridiculous.



Will it work with ATE&ATR ? Maaaan... I ordered them both little time ago with no coupon... -.-



JimJames said:


> Just saw the video from DMS3 TV in which he says that some of the drivers from the kz zs5 didn't do anything and that now they do, but it produces a big spike in treble. Do people who have got the v2 think alike and if so, how annoying is it? I guess they must've done the same thing with the zs6?



Don`t follow only one channel. If I`m not wrong, someone here already tested ZS5 and proved that all BA`s work.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Will it work with ATE&ATR ? Maaaan... I ordered them both little time ago with no coupon...



Unfortunately the $12.99 code was just on the ZS5.

I’lol bet if you PM George and ask, he’ll consider creating a code for the ATE/ATR (or putting them on flash sale). They’d probably love to clear out some of the older inventory.


----------



## Slater

JimJames said:


> Just saw the video from DMS3 TV in which he says that some of the drivers from the kz zs5 didn't do anything and that now they do, but it produces a big spike in treble. Do people who have got the v2 think alike and if so, how annoying is it? I guess they must've done the same thing with the zs6?



I don’t know anything about the channel you mentioned. But in general don’t believe everything you see on YouTube.

Anyone with a camera can post a video, whether they know what they’re talking about or not.


----------



## Wiljen

BrunoC said:


> Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?



Look immediately beneath their name, when you see 100+ head-fier or 500+ head-fier that is what they are talking about.


----------



## kiler

BrunoC said:


> Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?



This is so true and the best part about china IEM's is that you can have one pair just about everywhere! One in your coat, car, work, gym bag... the list goes on and on, making you always have some music haha


----------



## Viber

kiler said:


> This is so true and the best part about china IEM's is that you can have one pair just about everywhere! One in your coat, car, work, gym bag... the list goes on and on, making you always have some music haha



I have one for when i got to the beach lol


----------



## Mellowship

kiler said:


> This is so true and the best part about china IEM's is that you can have one pair just about everywhere! One in your coat, car, work, gym bag... the list goes on and on, making you always have some music haha


Not just the iem but the DAP too. Just buy a dozen Benjie S5 , they pair well with just every kz.


----------



## Spelaeus

BrunoC said:


> Is there any Head-Fi member with less than 10 IEMs ?


I'm ashamed. I've only got three...  and five headphones. And two sets of speakers.


----------



## groucho69

Behold the emerald beauty....too bad I cut one of the wires on the upgrade cable while removing those horrible wires.


----------



## kiler

The ZS6 look so much neater than the ZS5 tho, that finish is lush.


----------



## Keller2

ZS6 @ gearbest for 25.99 /w EPHIFI1 coupon.


----------



## F4yze (Oct 24, 2017)

briank996 said:


> NM I figured it out, just cut the plastic shroud completely off.



Is that the new green version? It doesn't look as vibrant as the green in GB photos. Also, can you show a picture of the black body with a green front plate?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mono-type said:


> Thanks for the heads-up regarding the SpinFits, as I'm really considering buying the CP-100M's. Good thing I've read your reply so I could save my money on something else! I don't see any CP-240M's yet locally; it looks like I could only get it through AliExpress etc. in the mean time. Regarding the "Bees", are you referring to the New Bee foam tips? Just want to make sure.



Yeah, the New Bees. I also really like the regular spinfits on the P1, but yeah, the housing of the ZS6 is such that they don't go nearly deep enough for the regulars to do their thing. The double flanges do, though.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

Keller2 said:


> ZS6 @ gearbest for 25.99 /w EPHIFI1 coupon.



Hello friend, is this discount code correct? I tried to use it and it did not work.


----------



## Keller2

HUGO SILVA said:


> Hello friend, is this discount code correct? I tried to use it and it did not work.


Worked for the green and not for red for me.


----------



## rendyG

HUGO SILVA said:


> Hello friend, is this discount code correct? I tried to use it and it did not work.


It is limited only for some countries, someone already posted it here


----------



## Adide

SomeGuyDude said:


> I also really like the regular spinfits on the P1, but yeah, the housing of the ZS6 is such that they don't go nearly deep enough for the regulars to do their thing.



I can confirm this as well. Due to ZS5's form (more or less same as ZS6's) I get only shalow insertion with spinfits and slide off easily when moving around.
On the other hand with ZS3 spinfits play very well.


----------



## RomStar

Quick question guys, what's a good way to upgrade my listening experience? I'm pretty new and so far I hear getting a Benjie S5 is a good option for beginners. Is there anything better in that range? Or should I just get something a bit more expensive?

I mainly use my phone (Note 5) for music and use my Zs5 or Sph9500. No idea if I should invest in a Dac or amp. My pc doesn't have a dedicated sound card so rip. I have a lot of chi-fi iems like swings, senfers, remax and Zircons and what not but dunno what a next logical upgrade path is


Budget is around 50-80$ USD and appreciate any help ^^. I'm literally just starting to open up and invest in music, in the past I was a moron that thought Beats Solo 2 were good, thank good I threw them away....once again any advice is appreciated


----------



## Saoshyant (Oct 24, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Quick question guys, what's a good way to upgrade my listening experience? I'm pretty new and so far I hear getting a Benjie S5 is a good option for beginners. Is there anything better in that range? Or should I just get something a bit more expensive?
> 
> I mainly use my phone (Note 5) for music and use my Zs5 or Sph9500. No idea if I should invest in a Dac or amp. My pc doesn't have a dedicated sound card so rip. I have a lot of chi-fi iems like swings, senfers, remax and Zircons and what not but dunno what a next logical upgrade path is
> 
> ...



https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/time-rethink-beats-solo2-excellent

I know the S5 is well respected, so I'd venture a guess that at the stated price range improvements may not be huge, plus I don't know how availability of gear is in Australia.  Many people like the Fiio M3 at that range, but I ended up running into some issues with file type support, but that may not be the case for you.  My preference was the xDuoo X2, but not having heard the S5 I cannot say anything about whether it's an improvement.  The xDuoo X3 has dropped a bit lately and is currently in your range, and it's one I personally loved quite a bit for the price.

As far as a Dac/Amp setup for that price, I'm having a hard time thinking of options.  For a little more there's the new Fiio Q1 mk ii which seems promising, and early reports seem quite pleased with it.


----------



## RomStar

Lmao even when some one is convincingly sarcastic, i can't help but burst into laughter when I read "it's going to the wall of fame" or "it's a reference quality headphones" ahahaha

It's honestly wasted money for me, the bass bleeds into the mids and its very boomy. Not deep. Idk why I ever thought they were a good buy in the past lol


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I still like the Solo2.


----------



## Saoshyant

I became a little curious about them after Tyll had some surprisingly nice things to say about them, but I never got around to giving them a try.  Updated my post with some possible suggestions, but not many I'm afraid.


----------



## wastan

RomStar said:


> Quick question guys, what's a good way to upgrade my listening experience? I'm pretty new and so far I hear getting a Benjie S5 is a good option for beginners. Is there anything better in that range? Or should I just get something a bit more expensive?
> 
> I mainly use my phone (Note 5) for music and use my Zs5 or Sph9500. No idea if I should invest in a Dac or amp. My pc doesn't have a dedicated sound card so rip. I have a lot of chi-fi iems like swings, senfers, remax and Zircons and what not but dunno what a next logical upgrade path is
> 
> ...



I'd get one of the Benjie players and a Zishan Z1 you may not like the no screen of the Zishan interface but the sound quality is a clear step up from Benjie and you can always use it as a DAC or portable amp. You can probably get both for about $50 which leaves room for another interesting pair of earphones (do you have a Monk+ yet?)


----------



## vector84 (Oct 24, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Quick question guys, what's a good way to upgrade my listening experience? I'm pretty new and so far I hear getting a Benjie S5 is a good option for beginners. Is there anything better in that range? Or should I just get something a bit more expensive?
> 
> I mainly use my phone (Note 5) for music and use my Zs5 or Sph9500. No idea if I should invest in a Dac or amp. My pc doesn't have a dedicated sound card so rip. I have a lot of chi-fi iems like swings, senfers, remax and Zircons and what not but dunno what a next logical upgrade path is
> 
> ...


I would tend to think that finding a way to accomplish a stable output impedance would be a solid first step, especially for things with wild impedance variances (ZS5v1 as an example).  Coupling capacitors also have a serious risk of messing with the ZS5v1's bass response, as per data from @hakuzen:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918

As to how to attack that problem... depends what you really want out of your setups, I suppose.

If a DAP suits your purposes, obviously a purpose built device is great for its purpose, but output impedance (and caps) can be a concern on some
Voltage divider based attenuators - require plenty of volume headroom, but nothing to charge, some battery drain - iFi Ear Buddy / IEMatch or DIY
DAC - potential compatibility issues with Android, battery drain can vary quite a bit, most can't be used while charging typically
Amp - double amping concerns - clipping, noise floor, crosstalk, etc, but typically relatively manageable, also another battery to charge
DAC/Amp - benefits of both, fewer restrictions in how it's used, but usually more to carry around and another battery to charge
And unless carefully picked for the task, many of those options will also prevent the use of an in-line mic and controls.  Or at least I've not seen much in the budget sector with support for such things?

Personally I've picked up an iFi Ear Buddy and a Fiio Q1 on that front and I'm quite happy with both, but honestly going from random impedance sources to the Ear Buddy had a much bigger impact for me than going from the Ear Buddy to the Fiio Q1 when I feel like carrying it around.  But that's just my picks based on my personal use cases and preferences.


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 25, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Quick question guys, what's a good way to upgrade my listening experience? I'm pretty new and so far I hear getting a Benjie S5 is a good option for beginners. Is there anything better in that range? Or should I just get something a bit more expensive?
> 
> I mainly use my phone (Note 5) for music and use my Zs5 or Sph9500. No idea if I should invest in a Dac or amp. My pc doesn't have a dedicated sound card so rip. I have a lot of chi-fi iems like swings, senfers, remax and Zircons and what not but dunno what a next logical upgrade path is
> 
> ...



My advise would be to first invest in an amp.   The DAC in a tablet or a phone is usually pretty good as in they did blind tests and nobody could pick out a realtek chipset DAC vs a much higher priced model when passed to the same amp and headphones.  To make it even better all the test subjects were musicians or audio engineers so they knew what they were looking for and still couldnt reliably find it.

What sux in pretty much every phone and tablet is the amp.  they are not designed to do more than minimally power the headphones since they are first and foremost concerned with prolonging battery life.   A true headphone amp will really help power headphones to their full potential and will help you hear more details and a fuller sound.   I too have the Sph9500 and they do scale well with a good amp so I can tell you that you will notice the difference here.   The little Topping NX series is probably your best bet for new under $50 but I would watch for a good used one here in the classifieds as you'll get more for your dollar.

The S5 is $20 and will likely be $15 on sale on 11/11/2017 from one of the Chinese sellers, So no - nothing else exists in the sub $20 range that will touch the S5 except maybe the K9s also made by Benjie if it just happens to be on a better sale.  (Same sound, different body).
I have the S5 and a K9 and I think both are great for starters.

oh, welcome to head-fi.   Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## vector84

Wiljen said:


> The little Topping NX series is probably your best bet for new under $50 but I would watch for a good used one here in the classifieds as you'll get more for your dollar.


FWIW, the lower end Toppings have some serious caveats:
NX1/NX2 have vanishingly low output impedance and no coupling caps (iirc), but are *highly* susceptible to EMI.
NX1s/NX2s have ~4 ohms output impedance and undersized coupling capacitors (supposedly bypassable).

Plenty of people around here own them and are perfectly pleased with them... but my own experience with one was downright scary:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1576#post-13790426


----------



## Slater

Keller2 said:


> Worked for the green and not for red for me.



Red have 1 code. Green have a different code. Black is not on sale.

Red and Green codes are country limited.

Also, ZST and ZS3 are on sale stupid cheap for anyone interested.

Details in the Gearbest thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/10-...-99-kz-zs6-25-99.832367/page-27#post-13804842


----------



## RomStar (Oct 24, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> My advise would be to first invest in an amp.   The DAC in a tablet or a phone is usually pretty good as in they did blind tests and nobody could pick out a realtek chipset DAC vs a much higher priced model when passed to the same amp and headphones.  To make it even better all the test subjects were musicians or audio engineers so they knew what they were looking for and still couldnt reliably find it.
> 
> What sux is pretty much every phone and tablet is the amp.  they are not designed to do more than minimally power the headphones since they are first and foremost concerned with prolonging battery life.   A true headphone amp will really help power headphones to their full potential and will help you hear more details and a fuller sound.   I too have the Sph9500 and they do scale well with a good amp so I can tell you that you will notice the difference here.   The little Topping NX series is probably your best bet for new under $50 but I would watch for a good used one here in the classifieds as you'll get more for your dollar.
> 
> ...



Thank You So Much!

I was really worried I needed to dish out around $100+ for a DAC. I thought a good DAC helped more than Amp, I've even lurked in DAC Vs Amp threads as well.

Now basically I'm thinking I should just get the S5 during 11/11. But do u think I should start with the Topping NX? I'm a complete beginner so thanks a lot for the great informative comment ^^

Also do u like you're Sph9500? My personal opinion so far is, it's very good, but needs a slight bass kick for the music I listen to normally (Edms, rap and pop). They are slightly on the bright side as well, and I don't even know how much I believe in burn in. People say they become tame after use.... I've seen a lot of mods going around, do u think they are worth the risk tho? Tbh I love my pair and I thought they were gonna be over hyped 

PS: lol I realized I'll spend a lot now, but at least I'm not wasting money on brand name like I did with beats haha



wastan said:


> I'd get one of the Benjie players and a Zishan Z1 you may not like the no screen of the Zishan interface but the sound quality is a clear step up from Benjie and you can always use it as a DAC or portable amp. You can probably get both for about $50 which leaves room for another interesting pair of earphones (do you have a Monk+ yet?)



Thank you for helping a beginner out ^^

Tbh I don't care about screens. The audio quality matters the most at this stage for me. So the Z1 > S5 in terms of sound? I'll deff get a pair then. Should I wait till 11/11 like the S5 for sale?

Also nope, I don't have the monks  I couldn't find the original ones and apparently the Monk + are considerably worse... Do u recommend the new Monk +? Or should I just search and get the older monks for now? Thanks again 



Saoshyant said:


> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/time-rethink-beats-solo2-excellent
> 
> I know the S5 is well respected, so I'd venture a guess that at the stated price range improvements may not be huge, plus I don't know how availability of gear is in Australia.  Many people like the Fiio M3 at that range, but I ended up running into some issues with file type support, but that may not be the case for you.  My preference was the xDuoo X2, but not having heard the S5 I cannot say anything about whether it's an improvement.  The xDuoo X3 has dropped a bit lately and is currently in your range, and it's one I personally loved quite a bit for the price.
> 
> As far as a Dac/Amp setup for that price, I'm having a hard time thinking of options.  For a little more there's the new Fiio Q1 mk ii which seems promising, and early reports seem quite pleased with it.


Thanks for the informative reply ^^

I hear Fiio is good, and was eyeing them for some time. I figured I'd start with something basic and move up tbh. I can get a Fiio Killmanjaro, but I'm thinking of buying a S5 or Z1 instead. That way I can put the money saved on better pair of ear buds. Now I'll look into m3 prices and see how that goes, thanks 



vector84 said:


> I would tend to think that finding a way to accomplish a stable output impedance would be a solid first step, especially for things with wild impedance variances (ZS5v1 as an example).  Coupling capacitors also have a serious risk of messing with the ZS5v1's bass response, as per data from @hakuzen:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918
> 
> As to how to attack that problem... depends what you really want out of your setups, I suppose.
> ...



Wow thanks for bringing up stuff I never considered 0.0

I don't even know how much  I fully understood your amazing response but what I get is:

1: Some might not be compatible with Android

2: Might disable in line mic

3: more stuff to charge

Now I have no problem no2 and 3, but non compatible DAC sounds scary. I'll make sure I do my research then ^^

I'm not also exactly sure what output impedance is, but what I'm taking away here is: What I need depends on what I want. I basically want a better audio experience and I'm not sure if DAC or amp helps me more. Others mentioned amps are gonna help more so I guess I'll focus on that. And I'll primarily use my phone, cuz I can stream my music via Spotify premium and etc, I don't have too many flac files on me tho

Thanks for the reply


----------



## vector84 (Oct 24, 2017)

RomStar said:


> And I'll primarily use my phone, cuz I can stream my music via Spotify premium and etc, I don't have too many flac files on me tho


For this use case, avoid Toppings imo (as I noted above).  If you make the transition to a DAP it's far less of a problem, but for streaming music, EMI performance ought to be a serious concern.  Many (*but not all!*) Fiio products tend to do better in that regard.

Zishan Z1 will color the sound quite a bit when paired with ZS5v1 without an addition output stage (bass rolloff + boosted highs).

Oh, and I agree with @Wiljen, the amp stage is usually the weak point, but I would add that a DAC lets you bypass it entirely, whereas an amp will use it as a preamp stage (which is usually fine, but double amping concerns).  A DAC/Amp combo will let you try both setups yourself.


----------



## charlescc2

AndrewPL said:


> my KZ ZS6 with switched panels, which one looks better, left or right?



Yeah the left one is insanely slick looking.

On another note, GearBest support has been absolutely money on the issue of my ZS5 left earbud crapping out (still produces sound but significantly less than before).  First response was within 48 hours, the follow up response was within 24 hours, and they've offered 1) store credit, 2) payment method refund, or 3) sending of another pair.  Decided to take store credit as I'm thinking about just trying the ZS6s now.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 25, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Quick question guys, what's a good way to upgrade my listening experience? I'm pretty new and so far I hear getting a Benjie S5 is a good option for beginners. Is there anything better in that range? Or should I just get something a bit more expensive?
> 
> I mainly use my phone (Note 5) for music and use my Zs5 or Sph9500. No idea if I should invest in a Dac or amp. My pc doesn't have a dedicated sound card so rip. I have a lot of chi-fi iems like swings, senfers, remax and Zircons and what not but dunno what a next logical upgrade path is
> 
> ...


like others have stated, very low output impedance (<0.6ohms) and no coupling caps are a must for zs5. either DAP, amp, or DAC/Amp.

DAP (alternative to draining your smartphone battery):
Benjie S5 is so cheap and decent that having it as an alternative to using your note 5 doesn't hurt. transparent: no sound coloration. although its power is limited, is enough to drive sph9500 (>105dB SPL). but for zs5.. S5's output impedance is slightly over 1ohm, and i have to check its ability to manage so low impedance (limit of current before clipping or distorting): let me check it in some minutes. EDIT: checked, benjie+zs5 maximum volume no distortion: 10/31 (a bit low to my ears)..
xDuoo X3 (+rockbox) has got very low output impedance (0.1ohms), and is plenty of power even for driving harder phones than yours (looking at the future). DAC: cirrus logic CS4398. transparent: no sound coloration. but installing rockbox in it is a must (btw, i love rockbox, so this becomes a true advantage). battery duration is decent, but no spectacular, it gets a bit warm, has noticeable hiss, and QC is not brilliant at all, but still a good candidate. i guess you could get one for about $60-70 in 11.11.

DAC+Amp:
SMSL iDEA / Sabaj Da2: tiny powerful low noise and distortion device. android issues can be addressed. DAC: sabre ES9018Q2C. transparent: no sound coloration. check these measurements (https://archimago.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html). dunno about mic compatibility. he uses it with a note 5 as well. it needs some current from the phone, but bearable (and you avoid another battery to charge). output impedance: 0.5ohms. Sabaj Da2 seems to be identical device to iDEA, and is about $60, maybe cheaper in 11.11. you can use it with your pc as well (no soundcard required, it's an USB DAC).

I can't recommend an specific HP pure amplifier now (remember: no coupling caps, output impedance <1ohm or even <0.5ohms, low noise/disto/hiss desirable), but it could be a good option if the DAC of your smartphone is decent enough (which surely is). you avoid android and mic issues, and you can use same apps you are used to. a good amplifier is always useful, although you couldn't use it with your no-soundcard pc.


----------



## vector84

Obviously this is just a preference thing (and not particularly surprising as I tend to favor things a bit on the brighter side) - but for pairing with the ZS5v1, I actually find myself preferring to use 1.5-2 ohms of total output resistance personally - Q1 + stock cable (~1.5) or EarBuddy + upgrade cable (~2.0) both tick my boxes better than Q1 + upgrade (~1.0) or EarBuddy + stock (~2.5).


----------



## charlescc2 (Oct 25, 2017)

A couple questions guys.

1) I got the KZ Bluetooth adapter to use with my Galaxy S6 at the gym - I originally had the ZS5 to go with it but had to get a refund.  I figure I'm already not going to be getting the best audio quality going with the Bluetooth adapter, so would I be losing out much by just getting something cheaper like the ZST or ZS3?

2) What particular cable should I be buying to use with the ZS6?

Edit: I see listings for them all over Amazon, one on GearBest, but I'd appreciate if anybody has a link to one that they can confirm will work, and is of hopefully decent quality.  I have one that I bought on Amazon for my ZS5s but it feels like it would rip apart with one good yank and I'm considering returning it.


----------



## maxxevv

I have the ZS5v2 with the BT module.  In a noisy environment, it sounds surprisingly good actually.  On the commute for example, I can't really tell what's a big difference from the cable if I listen at my normal, somewhat low volumes.  Its only obvious if I listen to it at a higher volume, where the tiny details come out on cable and its not so well developed with the BT module.  Usually a fair bit of details are 'drowned' out by background noise if the volume is not high.

I don't have the ZST nor ZS3 to compare, so can't comment on their relative strengths.  

For reference, I use the LG G6 with Quad DAC and it supports the AptX specification that's available on the BT 4.2 module. 

Cables are purely individual preferences.  I'm perfectly alright with the stock cables though I have a cheap braided one on the way just for the heck of it as it was like US$7.50/- (or something of the range). But the KZ originals are microphobic, so an aftermarket cable might be preferred for some people.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Just received my ZS5 v2 Grey without mic (booked on Oct 14th from GB) I got them in new white packing. 

See pictures of the packages 1st two are ZS5 v1 and white one is ZS5 v2:


----------



## Viber

SomeGuyDude said:


> I still like the Solo2.



It's a cool set, doesn't worth the price tag of 200$, but it's pretty good for the 120$ it was sold for on Amazon sales.


----------



## hakuzen

roughly measured real KZ ZS5 v1 sensitivity: it's not 106dB/mW SPL, as advertised. it's 99dB/mW (122dB/V) SPL, considerably lower, as suspected.
(all measures were done with a @1kHz tone; used a cheap SPL meter, so consider +/-2dB error).

made some measurements on Benjie S5 + SPC cable (6 cores, metallic straight jack) + KZ ZS5 v1.

as suspected, maximum volume with no distortion is 10/31 (25mVrms/5.20mA); you get about 90.2dB SPL. when listening at that volume, found it too low for my taste (maybe because i'm used to louder-painful volume). from volume 11/31 to 14/31, distortion grows up. maybe you can accept distortion at 12/31 (39mVrms/8.12mA/93.9dBSPL), but at 14/31 (57mVrms/11.87mA/95dBSPL) you can notice it clearly. at 15/31 (68mVrms/14.17mA/98.6dBSPL), clipping occurs and distortion is extreme. highs become unbearable.
that's what happens due to limitation of current in cheap DAPs and many smartphones. with such low impedance, zs5 are more current demanding.
so you can listen to zs5 at benjie s5, but don't raise the volume too much (10/31 should be the limit, if you like clear sound).


----------



## young59

hakuzen said:


> roughly measured real KZ ZS5 v1 sensitivity: it's not 106dB/mW SPL, as advertised. it's 99dB/mW (122dB/V) SPL, considerably lower, as suspected.
> (all measures were done with a @1kHz tone; used a cheap SPL meter, so consider +/-2dB error).
> 
> made some measurements on Benjie S5 + SPC cable (6 cores, metallic straight jack) + KZ ZS5 v1.
> ...


Would this apply to the Zs5 v2? And how would it differ between the Stock cable and the Metal cable you used I assume there would a difference since the Stock cable will have higher impedance.


----------



## Trisse

hakuzen said:


> like others have stated, very low output impedance (<0.6ohms) and no coupling caps are a must for zs5. either DAP, amp, or DAC/Amp.
> 
> DAP (alternative to draining your smartphone battery):
> Benjie S5 is so cheap and decent that having it as an alternative to using your note 5 doesn't hurt. transparent: no sound coloration. although its power is limited, is enough to drive sph9500 (>105dB SPL). but for zs5.. S5's output impedance is slightly over 1ohm, and i have to check its ability to manage so low impedance (limit of current before clipping or distorting): let me check it in some minutes.
> ...




I got the Sabaj Da2 and its awesome for kz zs5 and zs6. And for my other headphones aswell. It works with android but you  need to plug in the usb cable open up your music app and start the music and then instert the dac to the usb cable. It drives my alessandro headphones perfectly and i can i even listen to my beyerdynamics dt880 pro 250 ohm with it. But its pushing it a little bit i think


----------



## jaydm99

Lord Rexter said:


> See pictures of the packages 1st two are ZS5 v1 and white one is ZS5 v2:


I got V1 with the box on the top. Contrary to earlier posts here that says V1 is the box on the middle, and V2 is the top. The only accurate indicator if we'll use the box method is V2 = white box.


----------



## loomisjohnson

RomStar said:


> Quick question guys, what's a good way to upgrade my listening experience? I'm pretty new and so far I hear getting a Benjie S5 is a good option for beginners. Is there anything better in that range? Or should I just get something a bit more expensive?
> 
> I mainly use my phone (Note 5) for music and use my Zs5 or Sph9500. No idea if I should invest in a Dac or amp. My pc doesn't have a dedicated sound card so rip. I have a lot of chi-fi iems like swings, senfers, remax and Zircons and what not but dunno what a next logical upgrade path is
> 
> ...


i use a topping nx1s with the zs5--it's nicely designed and vg sounding for $<40. you'll get alot of recommendations here, but most agree that the zs5 definitely, positively needs an amp to shine.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 25, 2017)

young59 said:


> Would this apply to the Zs5 v2? And how would it differ between the Stock cable and the Metal cable you used I assume there would a difference since the Stock cable will have higher impedance.


there is minimal difference.
if you'd use stock cable, which has more DC resistance than the cable i used (search in the thread about my measurements of cables DC resistance), maybe you could go +1/31 (i.e. 11/31 instead of 10/31) with no distortion, but the higher voltage drop due to the higher resistance of the cable, would make you hear same (or slighty higher) sound level than the spc combo at 10/31. so, roughly, no difference about this matter.

about zs5 v2, it depends. if kz hasn't added a crossover like in zs6, impedance will be similar or identical to v1, and then everything we talk about v1 would apply to v2 as well, together with new extra issue: highs harshness.
if they have changed something, it would be necessary to measure their impedance to know.

EDIT:
any of the owners of v2, who also owns a multi-meter, could check their dc resistance. one lead at the top part of the cable jack, the other to ground (bottom part of the jack). this will provide dc resistance of v2 + cable, and we all would get an idea if kz has changed something more than moving a BA..


----------



## Mellowship

loomisjohnson said:


> i use a topping nx1s with the zs5--it's nicely designed and vg sounding for $<40. you'll get alot of recommendations here, but most agree that the zs5 definitely, positively needs an amp to shine.


Yes, the ZS5 likes amplification. But, in my case, the effect of the difference of my ZS5 connected directly to the FiiO X3II and amped through a Topping NX2 from the FiiO's output, is marginal, and might be attributed to qualitative aspects more than quantitative ones. With the NX2 the music has a slightly more audible bass response and better attack, whereas with the FiiO only, there is apparently more resolution and decay. It might also be due to the slightly different frequency distribution, with a more authoritative bass from the NX2 putting some stress in the higher frequencies. Also, the notion of rhythm, pace and time seem more present with the amp. Once again, the attack might play a role there. It's all about a preference on microdynamics or macrodinamics, and I'm glad I can have them both (but not at the same time... there's no such perfect system).
I think that there are very good DAPs from FiiO X3II generation (like ibasso, etc..) that are getting to a price point most of us can afford (120, 130 $ ... ), and have great hardware, great DACs, great amplification and lots of functions. The X3II has DSD decoding, and does a great job - really! - as a USB dac! 
I also love the small Benjie S5, but only use it when travelling or at the beach or when I need to pick some FM radio. And it really scales well with almost every <= 32 Ohms ear/headphone out there.


----------



## xrk971 (Oct 25, 2017)

I can confirm that it likes (needs, really) amplification if you don't want distorted output. I have tried several amps including push-pull Class AB, Class A SE Push-Pull (SEPP), Class AB Quasi complimentary (pull-pull), and classic SE Class A.  Sounds quite lovely with SE Class A.  Nice detail separation with Class A.

@hakuzen:  can you describe how you coupled the SPL meter to the IEM port?  Leaks there can drastically alter SPL.  Also, how did you measure rms power or volts?


----------



## hakuzen

xrk971 said:


> I can confirm that it likes (needs, really) amplification if you don't want distorted output. I have tried several amps including push-pull Class AB, Class A SE Push-Pull (SEPP), Class AB Quasi complimentary (pull-pull), and classic SE Class A.  Sounds quite lovely with SE Class A.  Nice detail separation with Class A.
> 
> @hakuzen:  can you describe how you coupled the SPL meter to the IEM port?  Leaks there can drastically alter SPL.  Also, how did you measure rms power or volts?


for Vrms, a cheap decent accurate digital multi meter (verified it).
to couple the SPL meter to the iem, got one of the couplers iec-711 i use for iem measuring. the coupler are 1/2" threaded and, unfortunately, the cheap meter hasn't got that thread size.
unscrewed the cap/"grid" of the spl meter and wrapped two silicone tubes (got some tips used for vaping tests) around the metallic tube of the meter.
it's the same method i use to attach unthreaded mics to the coupler. the silicone protects both the mic/meter tube and the coupler's thread from scratchs, and seals conveniently. got stable readings. and the meter is located at identical position than the mic used for measuring; can't figure a better way to do it.
however, the spl meter is cheap (+/-1.5dB) and not calibrated yet. that's why i say +/-2dB error (roughly).
pics:


----------



## c4rb0n

Has anyone tried sir @Slater ZST foam mod on the BA's of the ZS6?


----------



## BubbleWrap86

c4rb0n said:


> Has anyone tried sir @Slater ZST foam mod on the BA's of the ZS6?


Someone did quite a few pages back. They seemed to be pleased with the outcome.


----------



## hakuzen

xrk971 said:


> I can confirm that it likes (needs, really) amplification if you don't want distorted output. I have tried several amps including push-pull Class AB, Class A SE Push-Pull (SEPP), Class AB Quasi complimentary (pull-pull), and classic SE Class A.  Sounds quite lovely with SE Class A.  Nice detail separation with Class A.
> 
> @hakuzen:  can you describe how you coupled the SPL meter to the IEM port?  Leaks there can drastically alter SPL.  Also, how did you measure rms power or volts?


oops, forgot to mention more details about my Vrms measurements.
measured output ac voltage with the DMM while playing a 0dBFS 1kHz sine tone in the benjie, loaded with zs5. then, i plugged the output to my adc (zs5 plugged in the other branch of the split), to check distortion.


----------



## Wiljen

c4rb0n said:


> Has anyone tried sir @Slater ZST foam mod on the BA's of the ZS6?



I did and it does help.  I did destroy the screen in the process and had to make new ones as they did not come off as cleanly as I would have liked (one of them and they looked odd mismatched).  It takes very very little foam to do it and I ended up using a balance as no scale I had would weigh that small a piece of foam and I wanted to be as close to equal in both ears as possible.  the balance at least proves they are within the margin of error on my fulcrum placement.   the combination of the foam mod and foam tips really tames the treble and if you are treble sensitive you may want to do both.  I would say get foam tips first and see if that does enough to make you happy as it is way easier than trying to stuff foam down a ba nozzle.


----------



## RomStar

Thanks a lot guys for so many great suggestions! 

Guess I'll grab a cheap pair of amp or maybe  a Dap if I find a good deal. I'm gonna hold off on getting the zs6 cuz I don't think that upgrade Is a must need from the Zs5. Instead I will get a diff pair of iems I guess. Mostly just gonna try and hold off zs7 comes out... Maybe I'll end up buying zs6... Who knows. So far the magaosi k3 looks amazing,  let's see how far they go down on 11/11 or If there are similarly performing Chi-fi iems  



hakuzen said:


> like others have stated, very low output impedance (<0.6ohms) and no coupling caps are a must for zs5. either DAP, amp, or DAC/Amp.
> 
> DAP (alternative to draining your smartphone battery):
> Benjie S5 is so cheap and decent that having it as an alternative to using your note 5 doesn't hurt. transparent: no sound coloration. although its power is limited, is enough to drive sph9500 (>105dB SPL). but for zs5.. S5's output impedance is slightly over 1ohm, and i have to check its ability to manage so low impedance (limit of current before clipping or distorting): let me check it in some minutes. EDIT: checked, benjie+zs5 maximum volume no distortion: 10/31 (a bit low to my ears)..
> ...



You're message was very thorough and detailed. Thank you so much for that, I learnt a lot ^^

Now a prospect of a Dap with good amping looks very tempting to me. But since I don't have many Flac or decent files, I rely on Spotify Premium. I guess I was being wishful looking for a $100 Dap with streaming capabilities. So far I'm looking into Fiio X1s, and a few used ones were within my budget. I am still confused by some terminologies and I don't think I fully grasped ur post...im such a noob lol. But the burden of research is on me, thanks for the help ^^

Also, what's the cheapest Streaming capable dap? As long as they offer a decent upgrade over my phone with Wolfson dac, I'm gonna dive in. 

Lastly any other Dac+Amp combo except the Sabaj Da2? It's good but I'm just thinking what other options I have 



loomisjohnson said:


> i use a topping nx1s with the zs5--it's nicely designed and vg sounding for $<40. you'll get alot of recommendations here, but most agree that the zs5 definitely, positively needs an amp to shine.



Thanks for further validation ^^

Other memebers have also confirmed this and I can buy an amp with peace of mind now haha. I'll look into the topping nx1s now, maybe squeeze it into my budget. Are the nx2s better tho? Thanks for the reply


----------



## Wiljen

has anyone thought about reshelling the drivers from the Zs5 or 6?   I know it doesn't make economic sense to reshell a $25 earphone but it would be an interesting exercise to see how much difference it would make in the signature.  Especially if you could reposition one of the BA to the main body from the nozzle.


----------



## c4rb0n

Wiljen said:


> I did and it does help.  I did destroy the screen in the process and had to make new ones as they did not come off as cleanly as I would have liked (one of them and they looked odd mismatched).  It takes very very little foam to do it and I ended up using a balance as no scale I had would weigh that small a piece of foam and I wanted to be as close to equal in both ears as possible.  the balance at least proves they are within the margin of error on my fulcrum placement.   the combination of the foam mod and foam tips really tames the treble and if you are treble sensitive you may want to do both.  I would say get foam tips first and see if that does enough to make you happy as it is way easier than trying to stuff foam down a ba nozzle.


Im going to try it later. Thanks for the info bro. For now im just sticking with my EQ settings -4dB on 8 Khz. Seems to tame the trebble for me haha. Oh i also tried it on my Benjie S5 and i find the DBB EQ setting matches well with the ZS6, at 11 volume anything above that its too treble hot for me.


----------



## young59

Can you guys listen to this song for sibilance I am using the ZS5 v2 and I can't listen to this sing without having lower the volume by a considerable amount.Is it just because of the iem being bright or case of bad recording?To me the vocal just sound too harsh.


----------



## Wiljen

c4rb0n said:


> Im going to try it later. Thanks for the info bro. For now im just sticking with my EQ settings -4dB on 8 Khz. Seems to tame the trebble for me haha. Oh i also tried it on my Benjie S5 and i find the DBB EQ setting matches well with the ZS6, at 11 volume anything above that its too treble hot for me.



Try dropping the 10kHz by -6db too.  The Zs6 has a spike at 8 and another at 10 so cutting both may remove that harshness you are still getting.


----------



## Wiljen

young59 said:


> Can you guys listen to this song for sibilance I am using the ZS5 v2 and I can't listen to this sing without having lower the volume by a considerable amount.Is it just because of the iem being bright or case of bad recording?To me the vocal just sound too harsh.




It is pretty bright at spots but what you are getting is partially Zs5.  I just ran it through my Icarus III for comparison and while I did pick up an occasional harsh note it wasn't unlistenable.  The video however is about as amateur a production as I have been subjected to recently.


----------



## Chaosy

Hello guys, I'm new to here(and also new to the sound industry). Just ordered my ZS6s and am really excited to give them a listen. Even though I have treble sensitive ears, I'm still willing to try them. 

Some people suggested me to get the Dunu 75 ohm impedance adapter to dampen the sibilance and looks like their suggestion originated from here( thank you @hakuzen ). I'm going to use my galaxy s8 as the source and I don't know If my s8 will have enough power to drive them. So I did some research on budget portable amps, I could only find 2 for the budget of $70, and they're Fiio A3 and Fiio Q1. But I can't decide on which one to get. A3 is more powerful but the Q1 has a DAC. Do I really need an ex-DAC or is the S8's DAC good enough? (ZS6+Silver Plated Cable+75 Ohm adapter+Comply foam tips. This will be my setup)

Sorry for the long post, I'm just really excited because this will be my first setup and I don't want to mess it up.


----------



## young59

Wiljen said:


> It is pretty bright at spots but what you are getting is partially Zs5.  I just ran it through my Icarus III for comparison and while I did pick up an occasional harsh note it wasn't unlistenable.  The video however is about as amateur a production as I have been subjected to recently.


Sorry about the video I had only listened to audio on spotify and couldn't find a audio only version.So it a little harsh which is boosted or amped by the ZS5 right?


----------



## hakuzen

RomStar said:


> Thanks a lot guys for so many great suggestions!
> 
> Guess I'll grab a cheap pair of amp or maybe  a Dap if I find a good deal. I'm gonna hold off on getting the zs6 cuz I don't think that upgrade Is a must need from the Zs5. Instead I will get a diff pair of iems I guess. Mostly just gonna try and hold off zs7 comes out... Maybe I'll end up buying zs6... Who knows. So far the magaosi k3 looks amazing,  let's see how far they go down on 11/11 or If there are similarly performing Chi-fi iems
> 
> ...


sorry for my english and for the terminology..

sabaj da2 dac/amp is very portable, powerful enough, good quality sound. it's difficult to find a better deal at its price range. you could use it with your pc as well.

but if you need to keep using your usual smartphone apps for streaming, a single headphones amplifier is the easiest solution. just watch out ampifier's output impedance, and the absence of output coupling caps in it, if you plan to use ZS5 on it https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918.
so i wouldn't suggest topping nx2 for ZS5 at all (it's >3.3ohms, and uses coupling caps), nor nx1s (same output impedance), old nx1 was <1ohm output impedance and no coupling caps, so better suitable for zs5, but had noticeable hiss, high gain mode had bass roll-off (design issue), and was not very powerful.


----------



## kokakolia

young59 said:


> Can you guys listen to this song for sibilance I am using the ZS5 v2 and I can't listen to this sing without having lower the volume by a considerable amount.Is it just because of the iem being bright or case of bad recording?To me the vocal just sound too harsh.




It's not just the ZS5, but the ATE too! I got used to it eventually. It's not the end of the world, but I expect something better! Earphones are cheaper than ever these days. And you can get something really, really good for $25 or less. (Marshall Mode...yeah, I'll shut up).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 25, 2017)

Chaosy said:


> Hello guys, I'm new to here(and also new to the sound industry). Just ordered my ZS6s and am really excited to give them a listen. Even though I have treble sensitive ears, I'm still willing to try them.



I hope you love them!  I do.

I have always considered myself to be treble sensitive but I was very pleasantly surprised last night when I listened to my ZS6 which arrived yesterday.  After all of the things that people were saying here, I expected to hate them.  Well, I plugged them into my Cayin N3 at 10PM and the next thing I knew it was 3AM!  I do not have any expensive IEMs but I will say that these might be the best ones I have (need to listen to my Uiisii CM5 again).

Plenty of bass but not headache inducing.  Sub bass where present... I use the title track of Bela Fleck - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo for that.  Around 2:24 it goes as low as I have ever heard.  Great vocals... male and female. Singer songwriters that I have seen live in small venues sounded as they should. Certain female vocals that can sometimes annoy me were fine.  Strings were beautiful. Drums had authority.  Cymbals shimmered. Great clarity.  I had just planned on listening to certain tracks but ended up listening to entire albums. Love everything about them (I have the green ones) except for the over ear cable.  I have long hair and it just gets all tangled up in the hair which is particularly annoying when I try to remove them. I know the memory wire can be removed.  I did that with the ZS3 and just made it worse.  Hard to even find the cable behind my ear mixed in with my hair.  A new cable is coming from ali... not quite the same as stock.  Hoping it will be nice.

I feel bad for those who are experiencing too much treble because I would hate that too.  But it did not happen for me.  I do only use Daps (sometimes with an amp for higher impedance headphones)... have never listened out of a phone.  As much tech as I have here, I do not even own a smartphone... haha.  I am happy that way.  I know that makes me a freak!  Computers, laptops, tablets, e-readers... and daps give me all I need..,oh, and a landline

Everyone has different ears, different music, different sources, different expectations... so I am not surprised that people are reporting varying impressions.  At least this does not cost the hundreds of dollars that some do!

Tonight I will use them with my Opus #1 which is what I meant to do last night but it was out of charge.

had to edit... I listened from 10PM until 3AM (5 hours).  I did not listen from 10AM until 3 AM LOL. I would have starved if I had done that -17 hours!    Hard to eat with IEMs in... it sounds weird.  I can drink tea   Maybe that could be a new diet... just run all day long with iems in.


----------



## eaglesgift

kokakolia said:


> It's not just the ZS5, but the ATE too! I got used to it eventually. It's not the end of the world, but I expect something better! Earphones are cheaper than ever these days. And you can get something really, really good for $25 or less. (Marshall Mode...yeah, I'll shut up).


Can't you stop? If you seriously think they are so much better than KZ IEMs that's great but please take it to another, more appropriate, thread. They seem to be $40 generally anyway, not $25. The only ones I've seen at that price are on eBay, being sold 'without retail packaging' by a Chinese vendor with negative feedback for selling fake Sennheisers. 'Nuff said


----------



## Slater

c4rb0n said:


> Has anyone tried sir @Slater ZST foam mod on the BA's of the ZS6?





BubbleWrap86 said:


> Someone did quite a few pages back. They seemed to be pleased with the outcome.



I was planning on doing the foam mod to 1 or both BAs. But after my ZS6 arrived and I finished BI, I found them perfectly fine. No treble cannons, no sibilance, and no fatigue. And I'm treble sensitive - the stock ZST was like a knife in my eardrums.

Even with the stock Starline tips they sound great. Foams sound even better (at the expense of some sub-bass). I tried to tape the bass port and didn't like them that way (plus couldn't take the driver flex). They are the best KZ IEM by a wide margin, even when compared to the ZS5 v1.

@BubbleWrap86 is right though - someone did it and said it worked great. Just follow the ZST foam mod procedure to a T. If it was me, I would start with just doing 1 of the 2 BAs. If it's still too much, then do the 2nd BA.

Let us know how it turns out if you decide to do it.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Even with the stock Starline tips they sound great.



I was surprised that I got a seal with the stock starlines.  Plan to leave them on.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> I did and it does help.  I did destroy the screen in the process and had to make new ones as they did not come off as cleanly as I would have liked (one of them and they looked odd mismatched).  It takes very very little foam to do it and I ended up using a balance as no scale I had would weigh that small a piece of foam and I wanted to be as close to equal in both ears as possible.  the balance at least proves they are within the margin of error on my fulcrum placement.   the combination of the foam mod and foam tips really tames the treble and if you are treble sensitive you may want to do both.  I would say get foam tips first and see if that does enough to make you happy as it is way easier than trying to stuff foam down a ba nozzle.



Nice job.

You could also use a diamond scale if you have access to one (ie a digital scale used to measure the weight of diamonds). They are incredibly accurate. So are the digital scales used by compound pharmacies and pharma scientists to measure milligrams and even micrograms of raw material


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 25, 2017)

Chaosy said:


> Hello guys, I'm new to here(and also new to the sound industry). Just ordered my ZS6s and am really excited to give them a listen. Even though I have treble sensitive ears, I'm still willing to try them.
> 
> Some people suggested me to get the Dunu 75 ohm impedance adapter to dampen the sibilance and looks like their suggestion originated from here( thank you @hakuzen ). I'm going to use my galaxy s8 as the source and I don't know If my s8 will have enough power to drive them. So I did some research on budget portable amps, I could only find 2 for the budget of $70, and they're Fiio A3 and Fiio Q1. But I can't decide on which one to get. A3 is more powerful but the Q1 has a DAC. Do I really need an ex-DAC or is the S8's DAC good enough? (ZS6+Silver Plated Cable+75 Ohm adapter+Comply foam tips. This will be my setup)
> 
> Sorry for the long post, I'm just really excited because this will be my first setup and I don't want to mess it up.


thanks, but it was @HiFiChris who suggested the impedance adapter, after trying and measuring zs6 with high output impedance sources. i only measured it.

anyway, i listened to that combo (source+ impedance adapter + zs6) for a few minutes, and didn't like it. i prefer the foams + minor equalization to tame the highs.
if you could get a decent equalizer app which could be used together with your usual playing apps, it should be a better solution than the impedance adapter, IMO.

don't know the specs of the audio of the galaxy s8, but the zs6 are not hard to drive. i've tried them with benjie s5 just now, and found you can reach about 104dB SPL peak with low distortion. most smartphones are more powerful than benjie s5 (at least, those which i was able to find audio specs of, like iphones or xiaomis).
i'll post the results and comparison with zs5 in a while.


----------



## Chaosy

hakuzen said:


> anyway, i listened to that combo (source+ impedance adapter + zs6) for a few minutes, and didn't like it. i prefer the foams + minor equalization to tame the highs.
> if you could get a decent equalizer app which could be used together with your usual playing apps, it should be a better solution than the impedance adapter, IMO.



Thank you. What exactly did you change on EQ, I know that it depends on the device but I want to try it once I get my hands on my zs6s.


----------



## kokakolia

SomeGuyDude said:


> I still like the Solo2.



The Solo 2 is genuinely good! How else would Beats still be relevant? I just wish they weren't so pricey...

Something like a discontinued JBL S300 is only about $30 and it's "just as good". 

That's another shockingly amazing deal.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> I was planning on doing the foam mod to 1 or both BAs. But after my ZS6 arrived and I finished BI, I found them perfectly fine. No treble cannons, no sibilance, and no fatigue. And I'm treble sensitive - the stock ZST was like a knife in my eardrums.
> 
> Even with the stock Starline tips they sound great. Foams sound even better (at the expense of some sub-bass). I tried to tape the bass port and didn't like them that way (plus couldn't take the driver flex). They are the best KZ IEM by a wide margin, even when compared to the ZS5 v1..



haha, that's great. So we agree on ZS3,ZS6 and ZS6 vs ZS5 v1.


----------



## kokakolia

eaglesgift said:


> Can't you stop? If you seriously think they are so much better than KZ IEMs that's great but please take it to another, more appropriate, thread. They seem to be $40 generally anyway, not $25. The only ones I've seen at that price are on eBay, being sold 'without retail packaging' by a Chinese vendor with negative feedback for selling fake Sennheisers. 'Nuff said



The sale is gone! Yeah they're $40 on Amazon now. It's not a huge bargain now.


----------



## bjaardker

young59 said:


> Can you guys listen to this song for sibilance I am using the ZS5 v2 and I can't listen to this sing without having lower the volume by a considerable amount.Is it just because of the iem being bright or case of bad recording?To me the vocal just sound too harsh.




The synth horns that come in right around 1:08 are exceptionally bright. My Icarus III do ok with them, but I can see where on the ZS5 they would distort into some pretty nasty sibilance.


----------



## Superluc

hakuzen said:


> anyway, i listened to that combo (source+ impedance adapter + zs6) for a few minutes, and didn't like it. i prefer the foams + minor equalization to tame the highs.


Why ? It takes away too much after those peaks ?
How about foams plus the adapter ?

I want too to try that combo.


----------



## TJK81

hakuzen said:


> thanks, but it was @HiFiChris who suggested the impedance adapter, after trying and measuring zs6 with high output impedance sources. i only measured it.
> 
> anyway, i listened to that combo (source+ impedance adapter + zs6) for a few minutes, and didn't like it. i prefer the foams + minor equalization to tame the highs.
> if you could get a decent equalizer app which could be used together with your usual playing apps, it should be a better solution than the impedance adapter, IMO.
> ...



Hey man... Don't say that. Three days ago i purchased 75ohm impedance adapter from Penon. ***


----------



## Superluc (Oct 25, 2017)

Viber said:


> haha, that's great. So we agree on ZS3,ZS6 and ZS6 vs ZS5 v1.


There must be some difference between batches... there's no other possibilities 

Still waiting and hoping for mine pair...


----------



## Superluc

TJK81 said:


> Hey man... Don't say that. Three days ago i purchased 75ohm impedance adapter from Penon. ***


You are poor now ? 

I have buy one of them too, but it can always be used for else.


----------



## xrk971 (Oct 25, 2017)

I'm really happy with my V1's (have two pairs) so really curious what all the hub bub is about this harsh treble in V2 or ZS6?

@hakuzen,
Thanks for showing details of your setup.  That adapter would fit the tip of my calibrated measurement mic perfectly.  A sweep with REW software will show the differences in this treble peak. Once I get my hands in a V2 or ZS6, I will measure.

Siegfried Linkwitz shows how you can connect an IEM to a mic to measure frequency response.  It's important to find a soft pliable tube that mimics the diameter, length, and softness of our ear canal.  The length is important as that will cause resonance peaks and dips due to reflections off the ear drum and back into the IEM. This is why foam tips helps, they attenuate that hard impedance mismatch and soften the resonance peak.  Usually it is at about 2.5kHz and 7kHz. Linkwitz even developed a passive notch filter for his Entymotic ER4's.  He said it just won't sound right once you hear what it is supposed to sound like with that 2.5kHz and 7kHz peaks removed.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/reference_earphones.htm







Passive notch filter circuit:





So here is my hypothesis: adding that second BA driver right at the tip increases (by 2x) the hard material cross sectional area (the BA capsule) of stuff that can reflect sound and cause a resonance. This resonance has nothing to do with a different BA driver or even the crossover, it's where it is located, so it's purely an acoustic transmission line theory for modes of resonance.  That's why adding foam earplug tips help.  It's also why a small wad of foam or acoustic damping fluff helps. If this is true, it is kind of a design flaw for something that's supposed to be "an upgrade". If I am right, the V1 will always sound better. 

Start hoarding those V1's until they come out with V3's.


----------



## Viber

Superluc said:


> There must be some difference between batches... there's no other possibilities
> 
> Still waiting and hoping for mine pair...



Batches of ears?


----------



## TJK81

Superluc said:


> You are poor now ?
> 
> I have buy one of them too, but it can always be used for else.


Yep, i'm lighter for 8bucks
I don't see any usage with this adapter. Just only to increase output impedance to damp treble for ZS5, ZS6 respectively.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 25, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> I'm really happy with my V1's (have two pairs) so really curious what all the hub bub is about this harsh treble in V2 or ZS6?
> 
> @hakuzen,
> Thanks for showing details of your setup.  That adapter would fit the tip of my calibrated measurement mic perfectly.  A sweep with REW software will show the differences in this treble peak. One I get my hands in a V2 or ZS6, I will measure.


i measured them, zs5 v1 and zs6. first one who did it and found the high peaks of zs6 was @HiFiChris .
also measured their impedance curve, and compared their FR when using different tips and cables, sources and even impedance adapter.
just search for our posts in this thread, and you will find the graphs, the link to HiFiChris' review and comparison, and will get the reason of the hub bub probably.
the second BA in ZS5 v1 was connected, but buried into the shell. in v2 and ZS6, it is located in the nozzle, together with the other one. the treble big differences (about amplitude, at least) are evident.
i also like ZS5 v1s, but i'm enjoying even more the ZS6 (after some minor eq to tame those peaks at 8.5kHz and 11kHz, which are from +5 to +9dB compared to ZS5 v1).
but after seeing how different are maker specs compared to measured specs, my suspects of fast kz decisions and changes respond to marketing purposes way over engineering, are growing up.
anyway, they can't be so lucky of getting so budget respectable iems continuously, so audio engineers must be doing well their job.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 25, 2017)

[QUOTE="xrk971, post: 13807650, member: 470639"
Siegfried Linkwitz shows how you can connect an IEM to a mic to measure frequency response.  It's important to find a soft pliable tube that mimics the diameter, length, and softness of our ear canal.  The length is important as that will cause resonance peaks and dips due to reflections off the ear drum and back into the IEM. This is why foam tips helps, they attenuate that hard impedance mismatch and soften the resonance peak.  Usually it is at about 2.5kHz and 7kHz. Linkwitz even developed a passive notch filter for his Entymotic ER4's.  He said it just won't sound right once you hear what it is supposed to sound like with that 2.5kHz and 7kHz peaks removed.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/reference_earphones.htm






Passive notch filter circuit:





So here is my hypothesis: adding that second BA driver right at the tip increases (by 2x) the hard material cross sectional area (the BA capsule) of stuff that can reflect sound and cause a resonance. This resonance has nothing to do with a different BA driver or even the crossover, it's where it is located, so it's purely an acoustic transmission line theory for modes of resonance.  That's why adding foam earplug tips help.  It's also why a small wad of foam or acoustic damping fluff helps. If this is true, it is kind of a design flaw for something that's supposed to be "an upgrade". If I am right, the V1 will always sound better.

Start hoarding those V1's until they come out with V3's. 
[/QUOTE]

thanks! interesting hypothesis. my actual knowledge doesn't reach those concepts yet. stimulant.

about the system to better measure an iem's fr with a mic, it seems that the iec711 couplers mimics the right distance but also ear resonances better than a tube. found some threads in this forum where discussing iem measuring rigs. i started with a tube, adjusting distances, but ending with artificial ears. it seems to get more accurate raw responses, but who knows, everything likes to be relative.


----------



## xrk971 (Oct 25, 2017)

@hakuzen, I need to find your measurement protocol, but back-of-the-envelope calculation says 8.5kHz corresponds to a 2cm (1/2-wave reflection peak) distance from microphone diaphragm to location of front of the BA shells in the nozzle.  Is that about right?  I think the "standard" human ear canal has eardrum (biological mic diaphragm) is on average about 2.55cm or a 6700Hz peak.  An 11kHz peak would imply something at 1.55cm deep - which may be the hard leading edge of the silicone earplug tip.  So changing to foam tips may remove the 11kHz peak.


----------



## Wiljen

RomStar said:


> I was really worried I needed to dish out around $100+ for a DAC. I thought a good DAC helped more than Amp, I've even lurked in DAC Vs Amp threads as well.
> 
> Now basically I'm thinking I should just get the S5 during 11/11. But do u think I should start with the Topping NX? I'm a complete beginner so thanks a lot for the great informative comment ^^
> 
> ...



Differences in DACs are likely to be masked by other components until you get well above the price point we are working in.
I think you have gotten good advice on the amp from some others.  I think with a little patience you can probably get a lot more amp for your dollar by purchasing from the classifieds here.

I do like the 9500 but to say they need a slight lift in the bass is an understatement.  They have pretty severe roll off below about 100hz and sub-bass is just outright non-existent.   On the other end of the spectrum, I don't find them exceedingly bright but they do have good treble extension.   I would be very hesitant to try any non-reversible mod as I think the weaknesses in the 9500 are inherent to the driver and not likely to be "fixed" by external changes.  I think I paid roughly $40 for mine on a black Friday sale so for the price, I have no complaints.  I don't think they measure up to the Senn 598SE, but then I've never seen the 598 below $50 either.

Don't consider it wasted money, call it the cost of an education in audio.   Even poor purchases teach us something.


----------



## Slater

TJK81 said:


> Hey man... Don't say that. Three days ago i purchased 75ohm impedance adapter from Penon. ***





Superluc said:


> I have buy one of them too,* but it can always be used for else*.



Yeah, don't sweat it. The 75ohm adapters are useful for a lot of stuff. I liked it with my KSC75 so much, I permanently soldered in a resistor right at the drivers.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I hope you love them!  I do.
> 
> I have always considered myself to be treble sensitive but I was very pleasantly surprised last night when I listened to my ZS6 which arrived yesterday.  After all of the things that people were saying here, I expected to hate them.  Well, I plugged them into my Cayin N3 at 10PM and the next thing I knew it was 3AM!  I do not have any expensive IEMs but I will say that these might be the best ones I have (need to listen to my Uiisii CM5 again).
> 
> ...



The only logical solution is to shave your head.


----------



## xrk971

Slater said:


> I permanently soldered in a resistor right at the drivers.



I love it, a $0.02 solution for what could be a pricey adapter.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 25, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> @hakuzen, I need to find your measurement protocol, but back-of-the-envelope calculation says 8.5kHz corresponds to a 2cm (1/2-wave reflection peak) distance from microphone diaphragm to location of front of the BA shells in the nozzle.  Is that about right?  I think the "standard" human ear canal has eardrum (biological mic diaphragm) is on average about 2.55cm or a 6700Hz peak.  An 11kHz peak would imply something at 1.55cm deep - which may be the hard leading edge of the silicone earplug tip.  So changing to foam tips may remove the 11kHz peak.



very interesting info, thanks. will search and read about it.
i'm still learning, calibrating and defining a measurement protocol. not easy. trying to be regular with depth insertion, and using same tips. but who knows if they are the right tips, and exactly the right insertion; and when measuring different tips effect, insertion depth is not so consistent. will try a shallower insertion and see.

this is what i got:

 

looking forward your measurements, which sure will help to improve mines.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> The only logical solution is to shave your head.



Well then people could see my pretty green ZS6s...ok I will do it before my husband gets home from work tomorrow and surprise him.


----------



## peskypesky

Just received my second set of KZ ZS5's. My first set are gray, these new ones are blue. They look great...And man do they sound AWESOME!  I may be wrong, but they seem to sound better than my first pair. Or maybe it's just that I've been using my KZ ED9s the past couple of weeks and have forgotten how great the ZS5s sound.

I will obviously do a comparison when I get a chance to see whether they actually do sound different.

Anyway, all I can say is....what an INCREDIBLE deal for the $18 I spent.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> @hakuzen, I need to find your measurement protocol, but back-of-the-envelope calculation says 8.5kHz corresponds to a 2cm (1/2-wave reflection peak) distance from microphone diaphragm to location of front of the BA shells in the nozzle.  Is that about right?  I think the "standard" human ear canal has eardrum (biological mic diaphragm) is on average about 2.55cm or a 6700Hz peak.  An 11kHz peak would imply something at 1.55cm deep - which may be the hard leading edge of the silicone earplug tip.  So changing to foam tips may remove the 11kHz peak.



Has anyone considered the effect the "cheese grater" aluminum nozzle screens are having on the FR of the ZS6? Perhaps this is having an influence on the 10k spike we're seeing?

Besides it being a hard surface (reflecting waves in both directions), I already know from experience the effect swapping screens and/or removing them altogether has on an IEMs sound.

This is the 1st time KZ has used this type of screen. And while this style is used on other manufacturer's IEMs, it's not used very often. Why it's not used very often, and why KZ specifically used it on the ZS6 and not the ZS5 v1 or v2 (or any previous models) is unknown to me.

But as soon as my 2nd pair of ZS6 arrives, I'll be able to better A/B test mods. And nozzle screen rolling is 1 I definitely plan on testing out.

It would be nice to see the effect on the FR curve though, so maybe @hakuzen could take a few more ZS6 measurements:

no screen at all
nylon screen (ie stock screen removed and nylon screen stretched under the eartip).
stainless mesh screen (available on Aliexpress for less than $0.10 each)


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

peskypesky said:


> Just received my second set of KZ ZS5's. My first set are gray, these new ones are blue. They look great...And man do they sound AWESOME!  I may be wrong, but they seem to sound better than my first pair. Or maybe it's just that I've been using my KZ ED9s the past couple of weeks and have forgotten how great the ZS5s sound.
> 
> I will obviously do a comparison when I get a chance to see whether they actually do sound different.
> 
> Anyway, all I can say is....what an INCREDIBLE deal for the $18 I spent.



I agree. Even though I only have 2 ears, I couldn't pass up snagging a backup pair of these KZ classics for $12.99 last week.

I don't even care whether they're v1 or v2 when they arrive.

I love my v1, but I like the ZS6 even more. So when the ZS5s arrive, if they're v2 that's perfectly OK with me!

I also wanted a 2nd pair to mod with (venting the back cover, replacing the cover with carbon fiber or wood, etc).


----------



## kiler

peskypesky said:


> Just received my second set of KZ ZS5's. My first set are gray, these new ones are blue. They look great...And man do they sound AWESOME!  I may be wrong, but they seem to sound better than my first pair. Or maybe it's just that I've been using my KZ ED9s the past couple of weeks and have forgotten how great the ZS5s sound.
> 
> I will obviously do a comparison when I get a chance to see whether they actually do sound different.
> 
> Anyway, all I can say is....what an INCREDIBLE deal for the $18 I spent.



Maybe the blue ones are v1 and your old ones are v2? Since they said Blue ones are mostly old stock and that's why you like em so much... nothing like A/B testing tho :b


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 25, 2017)

Chaosy said:


> Thank you. What exactly did you change on EQ, I know that it depends on the device but I want to try it once I get my hands on my zs6s.


i'm still trying. as @xrk971 has told, the exact location of the peaks depends of distances, so i'll measure again, using shallower insertion, to better locate the peaks, and shall try/error with eq to find if my individual ear channel lengths match them. only touching the high peaks, the rest is ok, so it should be easy after getting more accuracy about the frequencies.



Superluc said:


> Why ? It takes away too much after those peaks ?
> How about foams plus the adapter ?
> 
> I want too to try that combo.





TJK81 said:


> Hey man... Don't say that. Three days ago i purchased 75ohm impedance adapter from Penon. ***



that's the combo i measured and tried. i forgot to say "..with foamies".
only tried some minutes, so don't take my ear impressions so seriously. the highs peaks were tamed, no doubt, to a zs5 v1 level.
i'd have to try it longer to find the disadvantages (others than having a longer jack/stick and having to raise volume..), if any.
when you get yours, try and review.
the foams and adapter are ways to tame the highs, but also is equalizing. i just prefer the latter (besides of foam), because use rockbox in most of my usual sources, and parametric eq is easy accessible.


----------



## wastan

RomStar said:


> Also nope, I don't have the monks  I couldn't find the original ones and apparently the Monk + are considerably worse... Do u recommend the new Monk +? Or should I just search and get the older monks for now? Thanks again



I have both the Monk and Monk+, both are great, the differences aren't that pronounced, so I'd recommend the + without hesitation. The originals are no longer made.


----------



## hakuzen

my rough (approximated) measurements of ZS5 v1 and ZS6 sensitivity, and example of how are they driven in Benjie S5.
(note: voltage and current are RMS, dB are SPL.)

ZS5 v1. (4.8Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: 122 dB/V (99 dB/mW).
ZS6     (14.5Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: 127 dB/V (109 dB/mW).

Benjie S5 (volume steps: 0-31):
+ ZS5 v1
maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 10 / 25mV / 5.20mA / 90dB peak.
+ZS6
maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 15 / 78mV / 5.38mA / 105dB peak.


----------



## skajohyros

loomisjohnson said:


> i use a topping nx1s with the zs5--it's nicely designed and vg sounding for $<40. you'll get alot of recommendations here, but most agree that the zs5 definitely, positively needs an amp to shine.



Agreed. I'm using xduoo X3, nx1s(bass mod), and zs5 v1. Nice combo.


----------



## xrk971

hakuzen said:


> ZS5 v1. (4.8Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: 122 dB/V (99 dB/mW).
> ZS6     (14.5Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: 127 dB/V (109 dB/mW).



You measured 5ohm impedance with the ZS-5?  They are rated 16ohms I think. I don't think too many headphone amps, let alone smartphones can drive 5ohm headphones well. Was this simply measured with a DMM?  I have a Dayton Audio DATS-2 impedance tester that can do a sweep. I should try it.


----------



## hakuzen

xrk971 said:


> You measured 5ohm impedance with the ZS-5?  They are rated 16ohms I think. I don't think too many headphone amps, let alone smartphones can drive 5ohm headphones well. Was this simply measured with a DMM?  I have a Dayton Audio DATS-2 impedance tester that can do a sweep. I should try it.


used REW to get the impedance/phase curves. the graphs are somewhere in this thread..


----------



## c4rb0n (Oct 25, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> Try dropping the 10kHz by -6db too.  The Zs6 has a spike at 8 and another at 10 so cutting both may remove that harshness you are still getting.


Will sure do bro  Thanks for the Suggestions brother. My Zs3's just arrived yesterday and man these have a very punchy bass haha. I also tried sir @Slater ZS3 Mod too and im quite happy with these, it brought up the highs quite a bit, and sometimes it gets sibilant, i only use them when watching movies, and my Zs6 for listening music.


----------



## Superluc

Viber said:


> Batches of ears?




Who knows...

I just find strange that, for Slater, the ZST is damn sibilant but not the ZS6.

See this graph:







Ok that is better to do comparison between graphs taken with the same stuff, but seeing this the highs seem even more pronounced on ZS6, at 8khz, and just the same after...

Oh well... 



hakuzen said:


> the highs peaks were tamed, no doubt, to a zs5 v1 level.



...this is what is important. Than anyone can find it's personal better balance between foam, EQ and/or adapters


----------



## Viber

Superluc said:


> Who knows...
> 
> I just find strange that, for Slater, the ZST is damn sibilant but not the ZS6.
> 
> ...



I started to completely ignore graphs about 2 years ago. 
They show quantity, but not quality. I just don't see them as a useful tool anymore.


----------



## RomStar

You know, it might seem cheesy and all, but this is why I f**king love this place. I never really cared about audio before, untill I heard a pair of athm-50s. I realized how much of a difference a good pair made compared to my stock apple buds

Slowly after venturing further, I stumbled upon these super cheap pairs of Buds called ATE's from a brand called Kz. Soon I found Zircons and then bigger boys like Magaosi... Since then I have never looked back 

These days I actually save money for audio, and have spent a humble $400 in total. I love how much you can actually get for you're money and all the amazing analysis that goes on here. Cheers everyone for being amazing and making this a hobby of mine for the past year or so ^^


----------



## Spelaeus

I feel almost nauseous saying it, but having tried several of the cable options for the ZS6, my favorite one so far may be the gray/brown ofc cable. And it's largely because of... the memory wire. It's much better implemented in this cable. Much easier to mould and actually helps with fit. I ripped it out of every other KZ cable I've had. This isn't natural.

http://s.aliexpress.com/yAJn2EbQ


----------



## RomStar (Oct 25, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> sorry for my english and for the terminology..
> 
> sabaj da2 dac/amp is very portable, powerful enough, good quality sound. it's difficult to find a better deal at its price range. you could use it with your pc as well.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot. Tbh an amp looks optimal, I was looking into prices as well. I'm honestly just gonna get a nx1 cuz it's very cheap and another sets of buds. But since u mentioned it hisses a lot, are there any better alternatives? I won't mind a slight bump in price, thanks as usual ^^. Also learning a lot from these graphs u and others are posting, man I just realized i got a lot to learn



xrk971 said:


> I'm really happy with my V1's (have two pairs) so really curious what all the hub bub is about this harsh treble in V2 or ZS6?
> 
> @hakuzen,
> Thanks for showing details of your setup.  That adapter would fit the tip of my calibrated measurement mic perfectly.  A sweep with REW software will show the differences in this treble peak. Once I get my hands in a V2 or ZS6, I will measure.
> ...



Wow very informative and I see you're point. I feel like you're hypothesis is on point man, but now I wanna try the v2s myself.  Maybe it's cuz of the praise here or ppl reporting them to not being too harsh. Is there any guaranteed way of snagging v2s? I might actually get the zs6 as well at this rate 



Wiljen said:


> Differences in DACs are likely to be masked by other components until you get well above the price point we are working in.
> I think you have gotten good advice on the amp from some others.  I think with a little patience you can probably get a lot more amp for your dollar by purchasing from the classifieds here.
> 
> I do like the 9500 but to say they need a slight lift in the bass is an understatement.  They have pretty severe roll off below about 100hz and sub-bass is just outright non-existent.   On the other end of the spectrum, I don't find them exceedingly bright but they do have good treble extension.   I would be very hesitant to try any non-reversible mod as I think the weaknesses in the 9500 are inherent to the driver and not likely to be "fixed" by external changes.  I think I paid roughly $40 for mine on a black Friday sale so for the price, I have no complaints.  I don't think they measure up to the Senn 598SE, but then I've never seen the 598 below $50 either.
> ...


Wise words as usual ^^

I don't consider the shp to be wasted money, love them actually. But I was stupid and paid $90 for them lol, they had no other stock available in Au, so i imported them with shipping fee :v

Now I'll focus on Closed Back sets. Actually you got any recommendations? preferably around the 100-150 range. I can snag used pairs, that doesn't bother me, just looking for value  



wastan said:


> I have both the Monk and Monk+, both are great, the differences aren't that pronounced, so I'd recommend the + without hesitation. The originals are no longer made.



Ah thanks, I've just seen too many people hating on the New revision. I'll still get them since they are dirt cheap, but are there any of the older stocks left tho? Would love a link to it


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Who knows...
> 
> I just find strange that, for Slater, the ZST is damn sibilant but not the ZS6.
> 
> ...



I agree, it is odd.

And to clarify the ZST sounded too sharp, not sibilant.

I know you’d think from the graphs that the ZS6 would bother me even more, but that just isn’t the case.

Besides the FR graph, there’s other factors at play - the metal vs plastic shell material, the 2 different types of nozzle screens, the shape of the ear canal, reflections, insertion depth, nozzle width difference between the 2 models, impedance difference, etc. Not to mention QC variations from batch to batch.

I can guarantee that the source, amp, and music is the same etween my ZST and ZS6. As far as the tips, I’m using Starlines on both, but I don’t remember if the ZST has grey or black ones. On the ZS6 I’m using the black ones it came with (same M size on both as well).

One other difference is the cable. I have always used the original thin twisted SPC on the ZST, and on the ZS6 I’ve only used the fancier multi-wire braided silver cable. Maybe that has something to do with it.


----------



## Wiljen

RomStar said:


> Now I'll focus on Closed Back sets. Actually you got any recommendations? preferably around the 100-150 range. I can snag used pairs, that doesn't bother me, just looking for value



For me that is an easy one, at $150 I'd buy the AKG 550.


----------



## Superluc (Oct 25, 2017)

Viber said:


> They show quantity, but not quality.


It may be true, but we can't not consider also the quantity of highs, when we are talking about personal sensitivity to them. The fact that for someone it's pair of ZS6 is more harsh and sibilant than it's pair of ZS5 v1 is also strange, thinking about yours ad Slater's opinion. Do you think that is only a matter of ears ? Something is odd...

I let you know my point of view when i have both the ZS6 and the adapter.


Slater said:


> I’ve only used the fancier multi-wire braided silver cable. Maybe that has something to do with it.


The one for ZST or the OFC for ZS5-6 line ?


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

Superluc said:


> It may be true, but we can't not consider also the quantity of highs, when we are talking about personal sensitivity to them. The fact that for someone it's pair of ZS6 is more harsh and sibilant than it's pair of ZS5 v1 is also strange, thinking about yours ad Slater's opinion.
> 
> The one for ZST or the OFC for ZS5-6 line ?



They are both cables advertised for the ZST (ie with the bent 90-degree ZST plugs at the 2-pin ends).

The one I’m using on the ZS5 and ZS6 is the one with the silver aluminum 2-pin plugs where people chop off the translucent plastic tips to get them to fit flush on the ZS5 and ZS6. It also has a straight silver aluminum 3.5mm plug, not the molded 90-degree rubbery plug you usually see on all of the other KZ cables. And yes it’s braided with 6 individual wires, with what appears to be braided shielding on each individual wire. An absolutely beautiful cable and cheap price for what you get.

Here's a photo:

 

The one I’m using on the ZST is the original SPC KZ released. It’s got clear plastic plugs, clear rubbery 90-degree 3.5mm plug, and is only 2 wires twisted together. It has clear insulation, and the wire turns green after a few months.

Here's a photo:



BTW, I also have this cable (photo below) but have not tried it on anything yet. Maybe when my backup set of ZS6 comes I'll use it on that. The 6-wire braided cable is bulkier, but it's just so dang sexy that I don't want to use any other cable lol


----------



## HerrWallen

Hey everyone, received my red ZS6s a few days ago.
Count me to the "not that harsh" crowd, but they are kind of "s-y" which distracted away from the other qualities of these IEMs.
Tried Complys which didn't really help, found the Ostrys to muddle up the treble and still dont quite dampen the "s-ing".

Two hours ago I had a mental fit and decided to go with Slaters foam-mod as a last resort. 
Instead of fitting it down the BAs I folded it over both (giving me 2 layers of foam covering the inside of the nozzle). 

HUUUGE improvement to my ears, with the spinfits everything just shines! 
These IEMs actually have a great mid-range, it doesn't nearly get the praise it deserves! 

The end result was a more cohesive sound from bottom up, really showing what a gem these truly are. 

So, I guess I should thank Slater for the lovely mod, I can't recommend it enough.


----------



## vector84

Superluc said:


> It may be true, but we can't not consider also the quantity of highs, when we are talking about personal sensitivity to them. The fact that for someone it's pair of ZS6 is more harsh and sibilant than it's pair of ZS5 v1 is also strange, thinking about yours ad Slater's opinion. Do you think that is only a matter of ears ? Something is odd...


Not that strange, different shell, different insertion depth, different resonance peaks.

So yeah, ears really are different


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

HerrWallen said:


> Hey everyone, received my red ZS6s a few days ago.
> Count me to the "not that harsh" crowd, but they are kind of "s-y" which distracted away from the other qualities of these IEMs.
> Tried Complys which didn't really help, found the Ostrys to muddle up the treble and still dont quite dampen the "s-ing".
> 
> ...



That’s a really good idea - folding it over both nozzles. Genius!

Nice job.

Glad to hear you're in the "not too harsh" crowd. I think the initial harsh reactions really scared a lot of people away from the ZS6. The reality is it's bright but really not harsh at all IMO. And I'm certainly not alone in that impression. So anyone reading this that is on the fence regarding the ZS6, don't hesitate any longer. The treble might be perfectly fine for you, and if not you can use foam tips. And if it's still too bright, you can either use EQ to knock the 10k down a few dbs or do the foam mod to permanently correct the issue (allowing you to use whatever tips you want).

BTW, the “s-ing” you’re talking about is sibilance. When you get a sibilant headphone/IEM, it can be really distracting. It’s usually not there on every track, but once you notice it you can’t STOP noticing it. For me, it seems more noticeable with female vs male vocals. Also, cymbals can get little more sizzling than they are supposed to sound, which is harder to notice unless you're very familiar with the song and how they are supposed to sound.

I hear commercials on TV and radio sometimes where they recorded the voices with a sibilant microphone. In that case, the sibilance is captured in the source, so it comes through on everything it's played on (regardless if the headphone/speaker has sibilance itself).

Kroger’s (a grocery store chain) is a big offender, and it’s really distracting. It sounds like they hired reptilian people to do 75% of their commercialsssssss haha. I always want to call their media/marketing department and tell them to junk whatever mic they’re using for voice work and get something different/better lol


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> I agree, it is odd.
> 
> And to clarify the ZST sounded too sharp, not sibilant.
> 
> ...



It's a big reason I take IEM measurements with enough salt to fill a canyon. There are so many damn variables.


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> Not that strange, different shell, different insertion depth, different resonance peaks.
> 
> So yeah, ears really are different


They are, but we are talking about two models with same insertion depth and tips but reversed opinions on highs response between some users... 
The only abnormality someone have pointed out is the different impact of impedance output between different source, but we can say for sure that is only that ?

If is that is better... no one want to toss a coin hoping to receive the corrected one. We can say the same between ZS5 v1 vs v2 discussion, that is very confusing.



HerrWallen said:


> Two hours ago I had a mental fit and decided to go with Slaters foam-mod as a last resort.
> Instead of fitting it down the BAs I folded it over both (giving me 2 layers of foam covering the inside of the nozzle).
> 
> HUUUGE improvement to my ears, with the spinfits everything just shines!


Can you make a photo of this ? 

I'm not sure to have understand how you have folded the foam on them


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 26, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Thanks a lot. Tbh an amp looks optimal, I was looking into prices as well. I'm honestly just gonna get a nx1 cuz it's very cheap and another sets of buds. But since u mentioned it hisses a lot, are there any better alternatives? I won't mind a slight bump in price, thanks as usual ^^. Also learning a lot from these graphs u and others are posting, man I just realized i got a lot to learn


i've been checking my notes about nx1 hiss.
check them at https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...utorial-in-post-2.800208/page-6#post-12994430
"In low gain, the hiss is maximum (and clearly noticeable) at minimum volume, and goes lower when raising the volume (it is low at 3/4 volume, and it disappears at maximum volume).
In high gain, you get maximum hiss at minimum and maximum volume, less hiss at medium (12h) volume."
after measuring it, decided to only use low gain mode. in that mode, you'll probably set high volume, and hiss is minimum there.
i got the nx1a for longer battery autonomy. it's very affordable, and i think it would be suitable for zs5 and other low impedance.
i dunno about its power (limits of current regards of load) and distortion. i should measure it with zs5. will do it.

EDIT: nah, forget it. low current capable. higher distortion than desirable. not suitable for ZS5.


----------



## HerrWallen

Slater said:


> And the “s-ing” you’re talking about is sibilance.



Ofcourse, why didn't I think of that?! I'm so used to it being more of distorted kind of whistle. 
I have mostly been dealing with head-phones, these are the second pair of IEMs that I actually liked and the first one with armature drivers so I'm new to the specific sound it produces (was thinking electriostatics before I got them). 



Superluc said:


> Can you make a photo of this ?


Sure, but it'll have to wait until the weekend. I'm absolutely swamped atm, it is 2AM here in Sweden and I should be sleeping.. hours ago


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

Superluc said:


> They are, but we are talking about two models with same insertion depth and tips but reversed opinions on highs response between some users...
> The only abnormality someone have pointed out is the different impact of impedance output between different source, but we can say for sure that is only that ?
> 
> If is that is better... no one want to toss a coin hoping to receive the corrected one. We can say the same between ZS5 v1 vs v2 discussion, that is very confusing.
> ...



I'm not convinced that the ZST and ZS6 have identical insertion depths. I'll measure it with calipers to verify, and update this post. But I'm fairly certain that I get a deeper insertion with the ZST (before the shell bottoms out against my ear).

Also, I forgot to list age as an important factor in my previous post a few posts ago. I'm over 40, and high frequencies are the 1st to go as we age. So maybe it would be helpful to list approximate ages when we post impressions (or if it's uncomfortable, maybe list "under 20", "20-30", "over 40", "in my 60s", etc).

I'm in my early 40s, and in sweep tests my maximum audible frequency is 16-17k.

Of course that's well above the treble spike of 10k seen on the ZS6 FR graphs. But since I'm not an audiologist, I don't know if:

1. as we age we ONLY lose high frequency (like a sharp cutoff filter),
or
2. as we age we lose high frequency (like a sharp cutoff filter) AND at the same time we ALSO lose a few dbs of lower high frequency ranges (like a smooth decline, followed by a sharp cutoff).

If it's #2, that could explain some of the differences in what is being reported.

Does anyone know? Maybe next time I run into an audiologist I'll ask for clarification.

Here's a generic guide of age-based high frequency hearing loss:


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> I'm not convinced that the ZST and ZS6 have identical insertion depths.
> 
> I guess I need to go measure it with calipers to verify, but I'm certain that I get a deeper insertion with the ZST (before the shell bottoms out against my ear).



I'll second that.  The ZST fits way more flush on my ear than the Zs6.


----------



## Superluc

Slater said:


> I'm not convinced that the ZST and ZS6 have identical insertion depths.


I was talking about the reversed opinions on ZS5v1 vs ZS6


----------



## mbwilson111

HerrWallen said:


> These IEMs actually have a great mid-range, it doesn't nearly get the praise it deserves!



Yes the ZS6 has a beautiful midrange.  Listening again now...I hope I have the sense to go to sleep sooner than I did last night!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 25, 2017)

Slater said:


> Here's a generic guide of age-based high frequency hearing loss:



Eek!  I am not saying anything...


----------



## Francisk (Oct 25, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Who knows...
> 
> I just find strange that, for Slater, the ZST is damn sibilant but not the ZS6.
> 
> ...


Not to worry Superluc, there are many people in this world who refuse to accept the truth. To me, the ZS6 is definitely peakier in the high frequencies region than the ZST and I'm glad that you have the graph to prove it.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

Superluc said:


> I was talking about the reversed opinions on ZS5v1 vs ZS6



Oh, I gotcha.

I think at least 50% of the complaints with the ZS5 (v1 anyways) is some issue with source matching - something with impedance (and how it pertains to voltage/current), amping vs non-amping, and possibly the cable used (stock vs upgrade; or in other words cable impedance's effect on the sound).

I know the ZS5 (v1) sounds poor when I use my iPhone vs xduoo X3+amp. And it also sounds poor when I use the KZ bluetooth cable.

I don't have ZS5 v2 (yet), so I can't comment on v1 vs v2.

The ZST sounds great no matter what cable or source I use.

I've only used the ZS6 with xduoo X3+amp and the 6-braided SP cable.

There has been a lot of discussion about the ZS5 lately as it pertains to impedance, and I think this is the key to unlocking it's best sound.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

Francisk said:


> Not to worry Superluc, there are many people in this world who lives in denial and refuse to accept the truth. To me, the ZS6 is definitely peakier in the high frequencies region than the ZST and I'm glad that you have the graph to prove it.



Just to clarify - you're saying that you know what I hear better than I do, correct?

Because I just want to make sure I'm understanding you properly.

And it's good to know that FR graphs show sibilance too. I'm learning a lot of new things today!


----------



## Francisk

Slater said:


> I'm not convinced that the ZST and ZS6 have identical insertion depths. I'll measure it with calipers to verify, and update this post. But I'm fairly certain that I get a deeper insertion with the ZST (before the shell bottoms out against my ear).
> 
> Also, I forgot to list age as an important factor in my previous post a few posts ago. I'm over 40, and high frequencies are the 1st to go as we age. So maybe it would be helpful to list approximate ages when we post impressions (or if it's uncomfortable, maybe list "under 20", "20-30", "over 40", "in my 60s", etc).
> 
> ...


I'm over 50 and I definitely can hear way past 12kHz....I'll consider that a bonus gift from God...LOL.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Age matters, but it's also not a one-size-fits-all situation. If you blow your ears out at concerts you can have shot treble sensitivity in your 20s and it's possible to have sharp hearing well into middle age and past.


----------



## Francisk

Slater said:


> Just to clarify - you're saying that you know what I hear better than I do, correct?
> 
> Because I just want to make sure I'm understanding you properly.
> 
> And that's good to know that FR graphs show sibilance too. I'm just learning a lot of new things today!


What I'm saying is that graphs don't lie as long as comparative measurement of 2 IEMs are done by the same equipment and environment by the same person.


----------



## mbwilson111

Francisk said:


> there are many people in this world who refuse to accept the truth



OK, I am apparently in denial or deaf.  Oh well... enjoying my music anyway through these SZ6s connected to my Opus#1 right now,  Happy to have them.

They sounded good out of the box but I have been burning them in for around 30 hours now...whether they need it or not.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Age matters, but it's also not a one-size-fits-all situation. If you blow your ears out at concerts you can have shot treble sensitivity in your 20s and it's possible to have sharp hearing well into middle age and past.



Well, in addition to normal aging, I definitely have some hearing loss and tinitus.

DJing in a night club in the 90s
Running my own DJ remix subscription service (headphones blasting every free minute of my spare time producing remixes)
Attending hundreds of clubs and concerts for years with zero hearing protection (ears would ring for days sometimes)
Had a ~10 year job where I used a giant industrial rotary tool for 8 hours/day similar to what dentist's use when they drill (called a Foredom Flexshaft).
It's a wonder I have any hearing left at all LOL.

Young and dumb, young and dumb. I'm definitely ultra careful now - hearing protection when using any power tool, when mowing the lawn, at every concert, loud bars, headphones/IEMs at low volumes, etc. I have to protect what I have left (especially the tinnitus which is really annoying and I'd pay just about anything to get rid of it).


----------



## mbwilson111

Francisk said:


> What I'm saying is that graphs don't lie as long as comparative measurement of 2 IEMs are done by the same equipment and environment by the same person.



But that graph still does not tell us how our individual ears will interpret the sound.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

Francisk said:


> What I'm saying is that graphs don't lie as long as comparative measurement of 2 IEMs are done by the same equipment and environment by the same person.



Here's a test.

Using the exact same IEM, glue a 1" long hard plastic or copper tube to the nozzle of an IEM, and attach the eartip on the end of the extended nozzle. Take a listen, and compare it to the stock IEM without the extension tube.

Does it sound the same? No you say? But how is that possible? They both have identical frequency graphs - it's the same identical IEM!

There's more to what we hear than a FR graph.

Maybe it's 1 specific frequency or reflected wave that is different between the ZST and ZS6 that I was interpreting as sharp? Like 9.8kHz? Maybe it's a difference with impedance/voltage/current matching between the ZST and ZS6. None of those things show up on a FR graph either.


----------



## young59

Well I am 19 and have definitely not destroyed by hearing by going to any music concerts and I found the ZS5 v2 harsh at first but having them for almost 1 month I have gotten used to them. I still find some track harsh but I just avoid them because they were just recorded that way.My previous iem were the ZS3 which were way more bassay and much darker that may be also a reason why I interpreted the ZS5 to be too bright and took a while to appreciate their bass.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> OK, I am apparently in denial or deaf.  Oh well... enjoying my music anyway through these SZ6s connected to my Opus#1 right now,  Happy to have them.
> 
> They sounded good out of the box but I have been burning them in for around 30 hours now...whether they need it or not.



Admit it - you're in denial with what you hear! ;0)


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Well, in addition to normal aging, I definitely have some hearing loss and tinitus.
> 
> DJing in a night club in the 90s
> Running my own DJ remix subscription service (headphones blasting every free minute of my spare time producing remixes)
> ...



Wow that is a lot of abuse for your poor ears.  I have taken pretty good care of mine.  I have always liked to have some quiet time and have never listened at very high volumes.  I did go to a few arena concerts in the 80s that were too loud but most of my live music has been in smaller more intimate venues.  I do remember one night when the guitars were too loud for the room.   Quite a few people actually walked out.  

I am not sure if iems themselves could be worse for the the ears than headphones or speakers.  I actually have listened with speakers for many more years than headphones.  I have only been using iems for a few months.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 25, 2017)

Slater said:


> Admit it - you're in denial with what you hear! ;0)



Sure... why not... it is late and I am tired so I will just admit I am in denial.  Back to the music now...

oops... Opus is at 12%,,,, and I just tried to insert a C connector into the micro usb port


----------



## Superluc

Slater said:


> I think at least 50% of the complaints with the ZS5 (v1 anyways) is some issue with source matching - something with impedance (and how it pertains to voltage/current), amping vs non-amping, and possibly the cable used (stock vs upgrade; or in other words cable impedance's effect on the sound).
> 
> I know the ZS5 (v1) sounds poor when I use my iPhone vs xduoo X3+amp. And it also sounds poor when I use the KZ bluetooth cable.
> 
> I've only used the ZS6 with xduoo X3+amp and the 6-braided SP cable.



Thanks. When and if you want, let us know how the ZS6 perform also on your phone and, eventually, if you feel some difference with your sources using the stock cable.

Bye...


----------



## xrk971

Superluc said:


> Who knows...
> 
> I just find strange that, for Slater, the ZST is damn sibilant but not the ZS6.
> 
> ...



For sibillance, you want to look at both the frequency response and the impulse response.  More specifically, does the impulse show a ringing nature?  The ringing indicates that percussive of sharp high notes continue to have energy released after the note or sound is supposed to end. That's the sound we hear and denote as sibillance.


----------



## Slater

xrk971 said:


> For sibillance, you want to look at both the frequency response and the impulse response.  More specifically, does the impulse show a ringing nature?  The ringing indicates that percussive of sharp high notes continue to have energy released after the note or sound is supposed to end. That's the sound we hear and denote as sibillance.



How do you (or can you even) measure/verify impulse response? Do you need an oscilloscope, or do you use use specific waveforms or something?


----------



## Superluc

xrk971 said:


> For sibillance, you want to look at both the frequency response and the impulse response.  More specifically, does the impulse show a ringing nature?  The ringing indicates that percussive of sharp high notes continue to have energy released after the note or sound is supposed to end. That's the sound we hear and denote as sibillance.


Is not also true that a sibilance presence on a recording can be more noticeable and unpleasant on brighter headphones with peaky highs ?


----------



## xrk971 (Oct 25, 2017)

No, it's measured by the same methods that are used to measure the frequency response. There are several ways to do it - one way is to generate a sharp sound and measure the decay trace with an oscilloscope. The common way is to mathematically derive it from spectral Fast Fourier Transform methods like how REW does it. So all the guys who have done measurements in REW already, just click on the impulse response tab. Display the % scale and click step response.  This shows both an impulse response and a step finxduon response.

@Superluc:  yes, the sibillance in a recording can be made worse by a headphone (or speaker) that has a ringing response.  The ringing response is more common on speakers with aluminum cone drivers. Not always true as certain manufacturers have solved it by adding a rubber dampening coating at strategic points.  It can also be fixed by mechanical geometry. Adding pentagonal symmetry seems to help as that doesn't support drum head modes of resonance on the diaphragm.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> No, it's measured by the same methods that are used to measure the frequency response. There are several ways to do it - one way is to generate a sharp sound and measure the decay trace with an oscilloscope. The common way is to mathematically derive it from spectral Fast Fourier Transform methods like how REW does it. So all the guys who have done meaidements in REW already, just click on the impulse response tab. Display the % scale and click step response.  This shows both an impulse response and a step finxduon response.



Hmmm, a lot of what you're saying sounds like when the adults speak in Charlie Brown shows haha ;0)

Do either of these ZST graphs show what you're referring to?


----------



## mbwilson111

definition of sibilance:

*Sibilance* is a manner of articulation of fricative and affricate consonants, made by directing a stream of air with the tongue towards the sharp edge of the teeth, which are held close together; a consonant that uses *sibilance* may be called a *sibilant*, or a strident.


----------



## mbwilson111

Speaking of sources.... last night I used my Cayin N3 with the ZS6 and everything sounded great.  Tonight I was using the Opus#1...also great... maybe even better but I don't know if it was a bit of burn in on the ZS6s or the Dap itself or just me.  Now the Opus is back on the charger and the lowly Ruizu A50 has taken over.... ZS6 still sounding great.  I cannot test with a phone because I don't have one.  My mobile phone is just a plain emergency only thing.  I could try it out of my iPad or android tablet with some youtube videos but  I expect it would sound horrible.  I have not bothered to try them with my desktop setup.  I don't want to be tethered by an iem.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> They are both cables advertised for the ZST (ie with the bent 90-degree ZST plugs at the 2-pin ends).
> 
> The one I’m using on the ZS5 and ZS6 is the one with the silver aluminum 2-pin plugs where people chop off the translucent plastic tips to get them to fit flush on the ZS5 and ZS6. It also has a straight silver aluminum 3.5mm plug, not the molded 90-degree rubbery plug you usually see on all of the other KZ cables. And yes it’s braided with 6 individual wires, with what appears to be braided shielding on each individual wire. An absolutely beautiful cable and cheap price for what you get.


Can you post a link to the one you bought? I've seen it on the thread a few times now and I like the look of it more each time. 

Related but different question for anyone's opinion... 
Does having a 90° or 45° bend in the jack end of the cable make an actual difference in terms of cable survival? Or is it just marketing and a appearance?


----------



## c4rb0n (Oct 25, 2017)

I have done sir @HerrWallen 's variation on sir @Slater 's foam mod for the Zs6 and it really does tame the sibilance, it doesn't muffle the highs at all and overall it just looks neat inside. I've attached an image on how it looks like, Btw i used the foam on the KZ hard case


----------



## bsoplinger

c4rb0n said:


> I have done sir @HerrWallen 's variation on sir @Slater 's foam mod for the Zs6... . I've attached an image on how it looks like, Btw i used the foam on the KZ hard case


Ummm. Uh, I don't see an image. Am I supposed to be looking for it in another post or ?


----------



## c4rb0n

bsoplinger said:


> Ummm. Uh, I don't see an image. Am I supposed to be looking for it in another post or ?


My Bad brother its the damn internet. I though it completed the upload, ill upload it again.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> Can you post a link to the one you bought? I've seen it on the thread a few times now and I like the look of it more each time.
> 
> Related but different question for anyone's opinion...
> Does having a 90° or 45° bend in the jack end of the cable make an actual difference in terms of cable survival? Or is it just marketing and a appearance?



Here's a link to the sellers I used for both 6-line braided and the new dark grey ones:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-for/32820250786.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ne-Upgrade-Cable-for-kz-ED12/32833103008.html

There are many sellers though, including some with better prices and/or more reliable reputations.

You'll find all of them if you search on Aliexpress for "KZ upgrade cable", and then browse through the listings. You'll find all of the upgrade cables KZ has offered, including the ZS3 and ZST style (and I even found some listings for MMCX upgrade cables using that same search term, but I was not aware that KZ makes any MMCX cables so it could be an error in the way the seller has the title listed).

Anyways, just be aware of the cables you buy and which ends they have. The 2 main styles are "straight" and "angled". The straight is designed for ZS3, ZS5, and ZS6. The angled is designed for ZST, ES3, ZSR, and ED12. Some of the cables can be trimmed/modified to fit the opposite models (specifically the 6-wire braided cable can be trimmed to fit the ZS3, ZS5, and ZS6). Lots of us have done that with zero issues, but you'd have to decide if you want to take the risk of messing something up.



And as far as the angled vs straight at the 3.5mm plug, I've personally had better luck with angled vs straight 3.5mm plugs. But that's generically speaking, not specific to the KZ cables.

However, when I stack my amp and DAP, there's no room for a 90 degree cable without doing weird stuff with the way I stack them together. So for that configuration I prefer straight cables. But when using just my DAP (no amp), a laptop, phone, etc I much prefer angled cables and I do think they last longer because they seem to put less stress on the cable. In cars when using AUX cables, I prefer straight though. It just depends on the specific situation and space setup.

Hope that helps.


----------



## c4rb0n

bsoplinger said:


> Ummm. Uh, I don't see an image. Am I supposed to be looking for it in another post or ?


Ive fixed the image bro. Check it again


----------



## c4rb0n

bsoplinger said:


> Can you post a link to the one you bought? I've seen it on the thread a few times now and I like the look of it more each time.


Here's how the Straight one actually looks like brother. I have removed the memory wires on these, it really bothers me haha


----------



## hakuzen

Superluc said:


> Who knows...
> 
> I just find strange that, for Slater, the ZST is damn sibilant but not the ZS6.
> 
> ...



posted a comparison graph of zst, zs5v1, and zs6 on october the 9th..  i'm afraid you missed it..  all graphs measured using same gear, same tips, same person.. the highs peak difference was obvious.. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1540#post-13771730


----------



## xrk971

bsoplinger said:


> Can you post a link to the one you bought? I've seen it on the thread a few times now and I like the look of it more each time.
> 
> Related but different question for anyone's opinion...
> Does having a 90° or 45° bend in the jack end of the cable make an actual difference in terms of cable survival? Or is it just marketing and a appearance?


\

Is this it?

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Banlance-Armature-Dynamic-Earphone/dp/B074H8Y76X?th=1


----------



## RomStar

Wait how exactly do I remove the plastic tabs from the zst spc cable? I wanna use it with my Zs5 and maybe the zs6 I might but. Just ordered one cuz they look amazing Imo, I have the other upgrade cable that is double stranded but wasn't the best looking tbh. Also for those who did it, are there any precautions I should take or any tricky bits?   Ty in advance


----------



## Jed1998

c4rb0n said:


> I have done sir @HerrWallen 's variation on sir @Slater 's foam mod for the Zs6 and it really does tame the sibilance, it doesn't muffle the highs at all and overall it just looks neat inside. I've attached an image on how it looks like, Btw i used the foam on the KZ hard case



Can I ask a favor of you? I've never modded an IEM. Can you post a step by step guide on how to do it? Also did you put the grill back on? How did you do that?


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 26, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> You measured 5ohm impedance with the ZS-5?  They are rated 16ohms I think. I don't think too many headphone amps, let alone smartphones can drive 5ohm headphones well. Was this simply measured with a DMM?  I have a Dayton Audio DATS-2 impedance tester that can do a sweep. I should try it.


didn't answer you properly.
basically, used a sense resistor. to minimize leads resistance (although they could be measured as well), got a box with three  3.5mm female sockets, a switch to toggle between channels, and the sense resistor soldered at the proper sockets. it makes impedance measuring more comfortable. resistor used was 100ohms, although lower resistance would be desirable to get even better accuracy, due i used a low impedance output amplifier at the end of the source stage.
then, in REW, calibrated the difference between impedance of both input channels of my ADC, and measured the phones impedance/phase curves at last.
so i guess the results are pretty accurate, if i didn't make an unadvertised mistake..
hope that if you notice any fault, thanks to your audio electronics knowledge, you'll help me to fix it.



xrk971 said:


> No, it's measured by the same methods that are used to measure the frequency response. There are several ways to do it - one way is to generate a sharp sound and measure the decay trace with an oscilloscope. The common way is to mathematically derive it from spectral Fast Fourier Transform methods like how REW does it. So all the guys who have done measurements in REW already, just click on the impulse response tab. Display the % scale and click step response.  This shows both an impulse response and a step finxduon response.


yep, i've got all measurements made with REW properly stored, so if someone needs the impulse response graphs, just ask me.


----------



## hakuzen

btw, i didn't like at all to find such huge differences between maker specifications of zs5 and the real ones. no need to do that, it leads to confussion


----------



## c4rb0n

Jed1998 said:


> Can I ask a favor of you? I've never modded an IEM. Can you post a step by step guide on how to do it? Also did you put the grill back on? How did you do that?


Sure bro  ill try to make one, ill post it later


----------



## c4rb0n

This is the simple tutorial for the Kz Zs6 Slater/HerrWallen Variation

Materials Needed:

Ruler
Scisors
Toothpick
Acoustic Foam (i have used the foam from the KZ Hard Case BTW)
Steps:

Cut out 2 rectangular acoustic foam pieces. One for each ear piece haha (Measurements: 4 mm = width X 10 mm Length) The thickness of the acoustic foam is also 4 mm from the KZ hard case
This is how it looks like 


 

 

I Have removed the Metal Grill that protects the BA's on the Zs6, the foam we cut will replace that since we will wrap them around the BAs and it will dampen the sibilance at an optimal level (for me at least haha)
Place the center of the foam just on the center of the BAs


 

Tuck one end with the toothpick, do the same with the other end, making a wrap along the Nozzle of the BAs 


 

 
Thats it folks, i would like to thank sir @Slater for the mod and sir @HerrWallen for the variation. This mod, for me, at least tamed the sibilance down and i dont know if its psychological but it widened the soundstage a bit haha but thats just me. Hope this helps everyone


----------



## bsoplinger

c4rb0n said:


> This is the simple tutorial for the Kz Zs6 Slater/HerrWallen Variation
> ...
> 4.Acoustic Foam (i have used the foam from the KZ Hard Case BTW)
> ...


Thanks. I didn't quite understand what you were describing before, which is why I was looking for the missing single picture hoping I could understand from that but this is way better.
By 'acoustic foam' and then mentioning the KZ hard case I've managed to get confused again. I have that case, if its the one I'm assuming you mean, and I don't find acoustic foam but what I think of as standard foam for padding. What am I not understanding? 

Here's the box I have... 
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605419.html


----------



## eaglesgift

hakuzen said:


> posted a comparison graph of zst, zs5v1, and zs6 on october the 9th..  i'm afraid you missed it..  all graphs measured using same gear, same tips, same person.. the highs peak difference was obvious..
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1540#post-13771730


I don't see the ZS5 on there, just the ZST, ZS6 and ES3?


----------



## hakuzen

eaglesgift said:


> I don't see the ZS5 on there, just the ZST, ZS6 and ES3?


click on the pic to watch it bigger size. zst is purple line, green is zs6, gray is zs5 (only these three are marked as visible)


----------



## eaglesgift (Oct 26, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> click on the pic to watch it bigger size. zst is purple line, green is zs6, gray is zs5 (only these three are marked as visible)


I can only see magenta, blue and green lines...

EDIT - Sorry, I can see it now, the blue/grey line. Had to scroll over to see the key properly.


----------



## c4rb0n

bsoplinger said:


> Here's the box I have...
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605419.html


That is the hard case bro. The padding is the acoustic foam haha. If youll measure its thickness its 4 mm


----------



## RomStar (Oct 26, 2017)

Wow ok, it's time I put my opinion out. I never believed it but, I think the Zs5 v1s are piercing. I was listening to Fob - The Last of the real ones. Suddenly I kept hearing sibilance and a lot of pierce. Since then I simply can not unhear that, and it's also affecting how I perceive my other tracks now.

Now I ordered foam tips, the new bee ones a few days ago, and I guess I agree when ppl said that foams were a must. Currently using the large tips from the Zircons as I don't like the spirals that come included.

In my opinion, and from my half trained ears, there is deff a heft of treble present and maybe piercing as well (not nearly as much In other tracks) . Wish I had V2s to compare with, but now I'm convinced that I would prefer V1s over the V2s if the treble spike is increased in new revision. Overall, I love the Zs5 and let's see how the foams work out. It's true I could have went for comply, but it just feels criminal to spend 32$ Aud for them, I could instead get a pair of Zs6 for 25$.

Do keep in mind my set-up is literally bare bones with my Note 5 Wolfson Dac and Spotify premium. This might not apply to others at all. But just posting my two cents here


----------



## Viber

Superluc said:


> Do you think that is only a matter of ears ? Something is odd...



I equate more importance to graphs when full sized cans are in discussion.
 IEM sound\impressions are so influenced by tips,insertion,different ear canals,physical seal etc...all those things make it really hard to measure a perceived frequency response.


----------



## Viber

RomStar said:


> Wow ok, it's time I put my opinion out. I never believed it but, I think the Zs5 v1s are piercing. I was listening to Fob - The Last of the real ones. Suddenly I kept hearing sibilance and a lot of pierce. Since then I simply can not unhear that, and it's also affecting how I perceive my other tracks now.
> 
> Now I ordered foam tips, the new bee ones a few days ago, and I guess I agree when ppl said that foams were a must. Currently using the large tips from the Zircons as I don't like the spirals that come included.
> 
> ...




You can try doing my mod, it will smooth out those highs for sure.


----------



## RomStar

Viber said:


> You can try doing my mod, it will smooth out those highs for sure.



Is it the slater mod with acoustic foam insertion? If not, can you kindly link me you're one with step by step instructions? I've never done any sorts of mods, but if you're one helps, I'll try it out (and If it's not too tough for me to do)


----------



## Viber

RomStar said:


> Is it the slater mod with acoustic foam insertion? If not, can you kindly link me you're one with step by step instructions? I've never done any sorts of mods, but if you're one helps, I'll try it out (and If it's not too tough for me to do)



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1411#post-13715111

My theory is that the highs from both the BAs and dynamic drivers sorta "clash" and thus make for an overwhelming treble response for some users on some songs.

This was my solution because i think i rather block the highs from the dynamic drivers and not the BA, i think Slater's solution was to put foam inside the BA's themselves.


----------



## Superluc

c4rb0n said:


> This mod, for me, at least tamed the sibilance down and i dont know if its psychological but it widened the soundstage a bit haha but thats just me. Hope this helps everyone


And this don't mud the sound ? It's definitely easier to do than put the foam inside the BAs, but like this it affect also the sound coming from the two dynamics.

I was thinking of try something like this but out of the nozzle, making a larger circle of material ( like the foams from the KZ case and toilet paper ) and blocking it with the tips, like when someone put a material between the driver and the pads on full cans, but the effects on other frequency need to be listened carefully.

At now we know that the impedance adapter can also be used without affecting the mids.

When it comes i sure try some different combo.


----------



## Superluc

hakuzen said:


> posted a comparison graph of zst, zs5v1, and zs6 on october the 9th..  i'm afraid you missed it..  all graphs measured using same gear, same tips, same person.. the highs peak difference was obvious..
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1540#post-13771730


Oh, sorry. Thanks for pointed that out.

So, the ZST is more pronounced between 4k to 7k, but less after. Interesting...


----------



## c4rb0n

Superluc said:


> And this don't mud the sound ? It's definitely easier to do than put the foam inside the BAs, but like this it affect also the sound coming from the two dynamics.
> 
> I was thinking of try something like this but out of the nozzle, making a larger circle of material ( like the foams from the KZ case and toilet paper ) and blocking it with the tips, like when someone put a material between the driver and the pads on full cans, but the effects on other frequency need to be listened carefully.
> 
> ...


It doesnt mud the sound at all. The highs are crisp and clear still but not that piercing and it was more fun to listen to


----------



## c4rb0n

DOes anyone own the Zst Candy version aka PRO version of the ZST here? Here in our country, One local seller sells it for 15 $ and im planning on buying one. Any thoughts on these compared to the Carbon ZSTs?


----------



## Superluc

c4rb0n said:


> It doesnt mud the sound at all. The highs are crisp and clear still but not that piercing and it was more fun to listen to


Ok. I still think that it may be better to try less invasive options before venturing inside the nozzle, but it's an interesting one


----------



## c4rb0n

Superluc said:


> Ok. I still think that it may be better to try less invasive options before venturing inside the nozzle, but it's an interesting one


No worries brother. YOu can start by switching to foam tips, the t400's comply foam. Since comply tips are not readily available here in my country i could not tell anything about it. Im planning to buy on aliexpress, the New Bee complys, i hope i can find a local seller who sells comply's here.


----------



## Superluc

c4rb0n said:


> YOu can start by switching to foam tips, the t400's comply foam.


I want to use the new OFC cable on it, try foam tips for start, than custom EQ, some damping materials but out of the nozzle and an impedance adapter from Penon, when it comes. I think of try to find my balance without do something inside it.


----------



## c4rb0n

Superluc said:


> I want to use the new OFC cable on it, try foam tips for start, than custom EQ, some damping materials but out of the nozzle and an impedance adapter from Penon, when it comes. I think of try to find my balance without do something inside it.


It sounds better with the OFC cable for me, i have the smoky colored one haha, it gives more detail to the sound compared with the stock cable IMHO.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 26, 2017)

Just ordered some imitation T400 foam tips from a local online store, to be used on a ZS6. I ordered the black ones. They look like this. I presume these are the same T400 knockoffs that could be bought on AliExpress. Are these any good? On what I've backread on this thread, someone said that the darker the color of those knockoff T400's, the faster the rebound time. I already ordered the black ones...

@Slater and @xrk971 : Sorry to bother, but I see you guys talking about foam tips on page 1595, so might as well I may ask. Are those black tips any good, or should've went on to the red/blue ones? Thanks in advance!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Francisk said:


> What I'm saying is that graphs don't lie as long as comparative measurement of 2 IEMs are done by the same equipment and environment by the same person.



And those measurements don't mean **** all compared to the inner workings of that person's ears.


----------



## mbwilson111

SomeGuyDude said:


> And those measurements don't mean **** all compared to the inner workings of that person's ears.



I might have tried to put it more diplomatically but... yeah...


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow that is a lot of abuse for your poor ears.  I have taken pretty good care of mine.  I have always liked to have some quiet time and have never listened at very high volumes.  I did go to a few arena concerts in the 80s that were too loud but most of my live music has been in smaller more intimate venues.  I do remember one night when the guitars were too loud for the room.   Quite a few people actually walked out.
> 
> I am not sure if iems themselves could be worse for the the ears than headphones or speakers.  I actually have listened with speakers for many more years than headphones.  I have only been using iems for a few months.



Johnny Winter at a 200 seat theater made say "what" for almost a week. I swear he had his stadium gear in use. Only time I've seen the walls vibrate enough to be visible.


----------



## Francisk

Slater said:


> Here's a test.
> 
> Using the exact same IEM, glue a 1" long hard plastic or copper tube to the nozzle of an IEM, and attach the eartip on the end of the extended nozzle. Take a listen, and compare it to the stock IEM without the extension tube.
> 
> ...


I think doing some research about the basics of audio measurement benefits will definitely help you understand audio much better. I'm not here to argue nor debate with anyone but I do understand that sometimes the truth is hard to swallow for some.


----------



## xrk971

For the folks questioning measurements and are they valid etc.  Sure, our ears are all different.  But not that different. It's mostly the length of the ear canal from driver tip to eardrum distance that determines the resonant peaks/dips according to TL theory (1/2-wave resonator).  The average adult ear canal distance is 2.55cm+/-0.3cm.  That will tell you the variations possible and it does vary with how deep you stuff the IEM in your ear.  But the data showing peaks and dips is relevant, only slight shift up or down in frequency occurs for different ears, Adding foam tips will change acoustic impedance at IEM nozzle to ear canal interface and that helps smooth things. But adding a 1in long tube to the IEM is not something very reasonable as no adult human has 5cm deep ear canals, and if they do - they are used to the sound it produces and the characteristically lower frequency peaks/dips it produces.


----------



## djmakemynight

While I really enjoy looking at the graphs (appreciate the hard work from the graph guys) and see what are treble canons/nukes, I also find fun and joy in hearing it for myself.

Afterall, we are here to hear what others share about a particular gear and decide if that is something we want to try to hear what others hear.


----------



## xrk971 (Oct 26, 2017)

mono-type said:


> Just ordered some imitation T400 foam tips from a local online store, to be used on a ZS6. I ordered the black ones. They look like this. I presume these are the same T400 knockoffs that could be bought on AliExpress. Are these any good? On what I've backread on this thread, someone said that the darker the color of those knockoff T400's, the faster the rebound time. I already ordered the black ones...
> 
> @Slater and @xrk971 : Sorry to bother, but I see you guys talking about foam tips on page 1595, so might as well I may ask. Are those black tips any good, or should've went on to the red/blue ones? Thanks in advance!



I have the black ones too and they work fine. There's is a good fit with the T400 Ali clones no matter what color. I prefer the red and blue combo as it lets me find right and left quickly, plus looks cool asymmetric.  I like how they look with the silver cables, here they are connected to my Class A amp.  These little velvet drawstring bags from Ali make a nice case for the ZS5's.






Here is a look at the silver vs gold cable side by side:


----------



## mono-type (Oct 26, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> I have the black ones too and they work fine. There's is a good fit with the T400 Ali clones no matter what color. I prefer the red and blue combo as it lets me find right and left quickly, plus looks cool asymmetric.  I like how they look with the silver cables, here they are connected to my Class A amp.  These little velvet drawstring bags from Ali make a nice case for the ZS5's.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a look at the silver vs gold cable side by side:


Nice to see the actual gold cable there, in which isn't available on my local stores. I only have the SPC v1 (that recently oxidized and turned green ), SPC v2, and the recent smoke-colored OFC cable. It's also nice to see your silver cables are still silver, unlike mine. And yeah, it looks cool when it's asymmetrical. Regarding the foams, how is the rebound time? Do they go back very quickly to its original shape after rolling?


----------



## Mellowship

mono-type said:


> Nice to see the actual gold cable there, in which isn't available on my local stores. I only have the SPC v1 (that recently oxidized and turned green ), SPC v2, and the recent smoke-colored OFC cable. It's also nice to see your silver cables are still silver, unlike mine. And yeah, it looks cool when it's asymmetrical. Regarding the foams, how is the rebound time? Do they go back very quickly to its original shape after rolling?


Concerning the rebound time, it's marginally different. We're talking about less than 2 seconds difference between the black and other colours. Don't worry about it. You'll have enough time to fit them in your ears.


----------



## xrk971

Mellowship said:


> Concerning the rebound time, it's marginally different. We're talking about less than 2 seconds difference between the black and other colours. Don't worry about it. You'll have enough time to fit them in your ears.



The rebound time is of order 5 seconds, so plenty of time to put in ear after rolling.


----------



## mono-type

Mellowship said:


> Concerning the rebound time, it's marginally different. We're talking about less than 2 seconds difference between the black and other colours. Don't worry about it. You'll have enough time to fit them in your ears.





xrk971 said:


> The rebound time is of order 5 seconds, so plenty of time to put in ear after rolling.


Thank you for clearing up, guys. The rebound time is my main concern on those black AliEx T400 knockoffs. Now, to wait for a week or two on the T400 knockoffs that I ordered to be delivered...


----------



## bsoplinger

mono-type said:


> Thank you for clearing up, guys. The rebound time is my main concern on those black AliEx T400 knockoffs. Now, to wait for a week or two on the T400 knockoffs that I ordered to be delivered...


Just for reference... The rebound time does change between 'brands' with the actual Comply taking the longest to return to shape. The New Bee brand (which you can get via Amazon for USA types and some from Gearbest for anyone although I've not seen all sizes and colors) have the next longest working time. The time for the Comply is long enough that I find myself having to wait for a noticeable amount before I can let it go without having to worry the IEM will fall out. I find the time to return to shape for the no name Chinese ones almost too short to get a good fit. I'd guess about every other time I put them in I'll have to redo one (so that'd be 25% failure rate.) There is a trade-off for that very slow rebound time in exchange for longevity. I don't think I've gotten 20 uses out of Comply tips before one of them is torn or tearing or slipping from the nozzle. At least for me the Comply are also most likely to not seal well enough that I don't have a noticeable loss of bass. But they are the most comfortable.


----------



## jisc (Oct 26, 2017)

If anyone is interested. This is the eartips I used to lessen the sharpness of treble of kz zs6. A triple flange from my old earphones, the sharpness has lessen but still sparkling. Didn't know why the eartips did that. The only thing I noticed is the triple flange is longer than stock eartips and it has a small opening.


----------



## Trisse (Oct 26, 2017)

**** 4 Core 7N Copper and Silver Plated Cable 2.5/3.5mm Balanced Cable With MMCX and 2pin Connector For LZ A3 A4 DQSM KZ ZS5
http://s.aliexpress.com/iInuQvEB
(from AliExpress Android) what do you guys think of this cable I'm not completely happy with the fit of kz silver cable with metallic Jack's on my kz6. Mainly because the 2 pin female is a bit loose on my left zs5 but what I can tell it does not affect the sound.

Any benefits of buying a balanced cable when I got no balanced outputs. Time to upgrade my da2 to da3?


----------



## vector84 (Oct 26, 2017)

Trisse said:


> Any benefits of buying a balanced cable when I got no balanced outputs.


Umm... Is not being able to use it without an adapter a benefit? 

only one side would work on TRRS jacks with a mic input (like a phone) - both sides might work on some TRS jacks, but I wouldn't count on it... and there is no benefit to doing such things.

PS: that's if you even manage to find a 3.5mm balanced plug... usually they're 2.5mm which obviously just doesn't fit


----------



## HerrWallen

c4rb0n said:


> I have done sir @HerrWallen 's variation on sir @Slater 's foam mod for the Zs6 and it really does tame the sibilance, it doesn't muffle the highs at all and overall it just looks neat inside. I've attached an image on how it looks like, Btw i used the foam on the KZ hard case


I'd just like give proper credit to @Slater , I was just to lazy to do the precision cutting/fitting  
Perhaps I should by a second pair and do a proper Slater ... hmmm, decisions ..



c4rb0n said:


> This is the simple tutorial for the Kz Zs6 Slater/HerrWallen Variation


Perfectly summed up, couldn't have made it better myself. The only difference is that I used foam from a pair of old earbuds that was laying around, it was not as thick as yours and I had to "fold" it over to properly seat in the nozzle  



c4rb0n said:


> i dont know if its psychological but it widened the soundstage a bit


Perhaps your foam is also acting as a sort of wave-grill, that did wonders for stage and imaging on my super-modded Fostex T50RPs.


----------



## c4rb0n (Oct 26, 2017)

HerrWallen said:


> Perhaps your foam is also acting as a sort of wave-grill, that did wonders for stage and imaging on my super-modded Fostex T50RPs.


Thanks for the idea sir haha its completely reversible too haha. I think so it really does help widen the soundstage i think the thickness of the foam did the trick


----------



## kokakolia

Just got the ZSEs right now.

First impressions are "yeahhhh! Meh! Yeahhhh! Huh? These are pretty good? Wait a second, no! Eh? Yeah!?" 

I am so divided. 

First off, the fit is fantastic. And they stay in my ear unlike typical earphones that eventually fall out. I don't have to mess around with this complicated over-ear design (like on the ATE). 

The positives: 
- I like how the vocals are forward. It's like the singer is whispering in my ear. 
- The bass is delightfully boomy with a fun "kick". 
- It's pretty warm sounding, like an old set of speakers from the 1980s. That's the kind of sound signature I like. 

The negatives:
- Similar to the ATE, the treble is kinda splashy, kinda sibilant at times but not pain inducing like the ED9s (IMO, the worst treble I ever witnessed on an earphone is the ED9). That's the dead give away of cheap earphones: wishy washy treble that sounds kinda weird. 
- The sound overall is kinda weird. Some sounds like bass guitar, vocals and cymbals are completely in your face. Other sounds are kinda muffled. 
- The boosted mid-bass kinda bleeds into the music. 
- I don't really feel like there's any soundstage. Everything kinda mashes up together.  

Am I expecting too much from $7 earphones!? 

I dunno...I couldn't find anything wrong with the KZ ED7. And they're also around $7. Compared to the ATE and the ZSE, the ED7 is a glorious earphone if I do say so myself. The ED7 doesn't have any of the kinks that these two earphones have.


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> Am I expecting too much from $7 earphones!?


Yup, but it's true that the ZSE may sound too much congested and i think that they work much better lowering the mid-bass with the EQ. Just try it and you can see for yourself, and with minor adjustment on highs, or foams, you are done.


----------



## Sebilion

I got my kz zs6 few days ago and I am quite impressed with them! Much better than the kz zs5! I bought a replacement cable as well but didn't hear much of a difference... I am waiting for the ostry 300 to see if they can fix the treble a bit. What cables and tips are you using for your kz zs6? These will be my daily drivers for few months so I want to get the most out of them


----------



## kokakolia (Oct 26, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Yup, but it's true that the ZSE may sound too much congested and i think that they work much better lowering the mid-bass with the EQ. Just try it and you can see for yourself, and with minor adjustment on highs, or foams, you are done.



Yeah, I might give it a shot. The thing is the KZ ED7 was "perfect" out of the box. PERFECT. No fumbling with tips or EQ required. I might just order another pair and patiently wait 2 months...Just like I did with the ZSE. It's frustrating.

In the meantime, I could just fumble around with the ZSE. I ordered New Bee eartips with it. It's...worth a shot!

Also, I really don't see the benefit of having two drivers. Other cheap earphones (also from KZ...go figure!) like the ED7 or ATE perform slightly better or better with just the one. You just need one good driver!

EDIT: The New Bee foam tips did improve the treble over the KZ startips! I was skeptical. But not anymore! Yeah, it's so much better now.

EDIT 2: So KZ ZSE ($7) + New Bee Foam tips ($4) is a pretty awesome combo for $11. I approve. It's not mind blowing in any way. In retrospect I should have simply bought a great $40 earphone (there are hundreds) over several cheap ones like the ZSE or ATE that kinda disappoint one way or another. But I lose my earphones frequently...So I may be wrong. The bottom line is that the ZSE is good for the money.

EDIT 3: I'm still not very happy with how the ZSE deals with drums, specifically cymbals. Or anything that's not a kick drum. It's just not very well defined.


----------



## Superluc (Oct 26, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Yeah, I might give it a shot. The thing is the KZ ED7 was "perfect" out of the box. PERFECT. No fumbling with tips or EQ required. I might just order another pair and patiently wait 2 months...Just like I did with the ZSE. It's frustrating.
> 
> In the meantime, I could just fumble around with the ZSE. I ordered New Bee eartips with it. It's...worth a shot!
> 
> Also, I really don't see the benefit of having two drivers. Other cheap earphones (also from KZ...go figure!) like the ED7 or ATE perform slightly better or better with just the one. You just need one good driver!


If they are that perfect for what you want, why you haven't brought a spare pair of them before ? There's no need to listen to reviews when you have find your buddy


----------



## kokakolia (Oct 26, 2017)

Superluc said:


> If they are that perfect for what you want, why you haven't brought a spare pair of them before ? There's no need to listen to reviews when you have find your buddy



In between KZ released a dozen earphones and the curiosity was killing me. I didn't help that very few people actually heard the ED7. So there aren't any comparisons online between the ED7 and, well...anything else in the KZ catalog. I had to form my own opinion. Recently it started with the ATE, which leaved me underwhelmed to be frank! The ZSE is kinda similar in that regard. I am still waiting for the ZS5s. I dunno if some people would be interested in my opinion. I am very opinionated, biased and I have an unusual sonic preference towards warm/dark/smooth sounding headphones over bright, "V-shaped" ones which most people prefer.


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> I dunno if some people would be interested in my opinion.


Don't say that. As long as anyone say it's opinion specifying what they search and like, without being a dick on doing so, any opinion may be interesting. 


kokakolia said:


> So KZ ZSE ($7) + New Bee Foam tips ($4) is a pretty awesome combo for $11. I approve. It's not mind blowing in any way. In retrospect I should have simply bought a great $40 earphone (there are hundreds) over several cheap ones like the ZSE or ATE that kinda disappoint one way or another. But I lose my earphones frequently...So I may be wrong. The bottom line is that the ZSE is good for the money.
> 
> EDIT 3: I'm still not very happy with how the ZSE deals with drums, specifically cymbals. Or anything that's not a kick drum. It's just not very well defined.


As i tell you. Now try some EQ, than go order another pair of ED7 and don't care about it


----------



## Slater

c4rb0n said:


> DOes anyone own the Zst Candy version aka PRO version of the ZST here? Here in our country, One local seller sells it for 15 $ and im planning on buying one. Any thoughts on these compared to the Carbon ZSTs?



Vidal has both and has said on more than 1 occasion that they are 100% the same with zero difference in sound. Just depends on which look you like better.


----------



## Slater (Oct 26, 2017)

mono-type said:


> Just ordered some imitation T400 foam tips from a local online store, to be used on a ZS6. I ordered the black ones. They look like this. I presume these are the same T400 knockoffs that could be bought on AliExpress. Are these any good? On what I've backread on this thread, someone said that the darker the color of those knockoff T400's, the faster the rebound time. I already ordered the black ones...
> 
> @Slater and @xrk971 : Sorry to bother, but I see you guys talking about foam tips on page 1595, so might as well I may ask. Are those black tips any good, or should've went on to the red/blue ones? Thanks in advance!



Do you have a photo of the bottom side of the tips? I can't tell if those are the kind used on the ATE that are coreless, and are made of gel foam. That type splits easily (because there's no rubber sleeve/core), are hard as a rock, and just flat out suck in general.

Anyways, as far as genuine vs generics (ball type and tapered type), I have both as well as all colors of the generics (white, grey, black, blue, red, yellow). Just get what color you like best. There is a very slight difference in the rebound of some colors of the foam, but not enough to make any real difference. If the seller specifically lists slow rebound as an option, opt for that. Otherwise, don't worry about it too much.

I personally like using red & blue combo, so it's easy to tell which side is R and L. But I've also done plenty of black. The white seems to show dirt the most. I also like the ball type a little better, but I use both the balls and the tapered type

I much prefer the generic foams over the genuine complys, strictly from a long-term cost standpoint. Foams need to be changed out regularly, and if I was using only genuine complys it would be like this:


----------



## Slater (Oct 26, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Just got the ZSEs right now.
> 
> First impressions are "yeahhhh! Meh! Yeahhhh! Huh? These are pretty good? Wait a second, no! Eh? Yeah!?"
> 
> ...



If you're interested, you can easily mod the ED9 to improve the sound 100%.


----------



## c4rb0n

Slater said:


> Vidal has both and has said on more than 1 occasion that they are 100% the same with zero difference in sound. Just depends on which look you like better.


Thanks sir Slater. Im planing to buy the ZSTs but i saw the ES3s, both have 1DD+1BA, would love to hear your thoughts sir on which is better between the two


----------



## maxxevv

kokakolia said:


> Just got the ZSEs right now.
> 
> First impressions are "yeahhhh! Meh! Yeahhhh! Huh? These are pretty good? Wait a second, no! Eh? Yeah!?"
> 
> ...



1st thing, did you give the earphones a little burn-in time ? The ZSE's need little a slight burn-in to sound their best.  Maybe in the order of 2~5 hours in my experience with them.  The bass does sound a little 'muddied' OOTB but will tighten up after a suitable burn-in.  As with almost all my earphones, I give them a 10~15 minute listen then leave them to burn-in either overnight or for the day while I'm working.  And listen to them proper after that. 

2nd thing, they are source sensitive.  They sound pretty crappy on my laptop jack, a fair bit like your other descriptions here but are really as I have described them a few times on this thread on my LG G6 Quad DAC.  

3rd thing, the overall sound despite being (on a neutral, slightly bright DAC of my G6 Quad, is) warmish.  Very comfortable for long sessions. 

Give it a few hours of proper burn-in and listen to them again. Your opinion might change.


----------



## chinmie

c4rb0n said:


> This is the simple tutorial for the Kz Zs6 Slater/HerrWallen Variation
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Superluc said:


> Ok. I still think that it may be better to try less invasive options before venturing inside the nozzle, but it's an interesting one



for a more non-intrusive option, you might be able to try this mod that tried using earbud foams, and shoving it down the tips or pinching it between the nozzle and the tube


----------



## mono-type (Oct 27, 2017)

Slater said:


> Do you have a photo of the bottom side of the tips? I can't tell if those are the kind used on the ATE that are coreless, and are made of gel foam. That type splits easily (because there's no rubber sleeve/core), are hard as a rock, and just flat out suck in general.
> 
> Anyways, as far as genuine vs generics (ball type and tapered type), I have both as well as all colors of the generics (white, grey, black, blue, red, yellow). Just get what color you like best. There is a very slight difference in the rebound of some colors of the foam, but not enough to make any real difference. If the seller specifically lists slow rebound as an option, opt for that. Otherwise, don't worry about it too much.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the insightful reply as always, @Slater! I don't have a photo from my own tips, since they are yet to arrive at my doorstep, although the seller do have a photo that shows it has a plastic/rubber sleeve:





 I'm hoping that the seller would send me the foam tips as they are advertised. And yeah, I have to agree that using the knockoffs over the genuine Complys is the more practical choice. The knockoff T400s are  almost 2-3x cheaper than the Complys (at least here in my country). I bought 5 pairs of those generic foamies for around 9 USD, while 3 pairs of Complys here cost around 24 USD.



bsoplinger said:


> Just for reference... The rebound time does change between 'brands' with the actual Comply taking the longest to return to shape. The New Bee brand (which you can get via Amazon for USA types and some from Gearbest for anyone although I've not seen all sizes and colors) have the next longest working time. The time for the Comply is long enough that I find myself having to wait for a noticeable amount before I can let it go without having to worry the IEM will fall out. I find the time to return to shape for the no name Chinese ones almost too short to get a good fit. I'd guess about every other time I put them in I'll have to redo one (so that'd be 25% failure rate.) There is a trade-off for that very slow rebound time in exchange for longevity. I don't think I've gotten 20 uses out of Comply tips before one of them is torn or tearing or slipping from the nozzle. At least for me the Comply are also most likely to not seal well enough that I don't have a noticeable loss of bass. But they are the most comfortable.


Thank you for the insights! I could also get those New Bee tips at my local online store, but ended up choosing those generic black T400 knockoffs instead, since all pairs could be bought at my preferred size, which is medium. The New Bee tips sold on the store I mentioned only sells 1 pair for each of the 3 sizes,


----------



## maxxevv

Bought this case on a whim on Aliexpress as they were like US$1/each.


----------



## c4rb0n

maxxevv said:


> Bought this case on a whim on Aliexpress as they were like US$1/each.


That case is good. Also the KZ Hard Case, as it contains the acoustic foam/padding too bro.


----------



## tvou88

Hi!

This was ''tested'' on KZ ZS5, ES3, ZSE, Moxpad X3, old Creative EP630, Memt X5.. Same ''efect'' on all of these inears.


----------



## young59

maxxevv said:


> Bought this case on a whim on Aliexpress as they were like US$1/each.


Would mind providing the link to those the only one I found at that price were the carbon fiber one and I don't want that one.


----------



## gazzington

Would the kz z6 be good for all types of metal?


----------



## Sebilion

gazzington said:


> Would the kz z6 be good for all types of metal?


I have the kz zs6 and I am very happy with them, they have great bass but, you will need to have Equalizer to change the sound signature a bit, because the treble is too much. After playing with the equalizer I love them!


----------



## Superluc

chinmie said:


> for a more non-intrusive option, you might be able to try this mod that tried using earbud foams, and shoving it down the tips or pinching it between the nozzle and the tube


I was thinking about cover the nozzle, blocking the material with the tips, like it seem on your second photo. Shoving something down on the tips is not a secure solution 

It all depends on how that affect sound, but the benefit of a non-intrusive mod is the easier change of material you can do.
Slater's mod on the BAs might be the ideal solution for the ZS6, anyway, but it seem more difficult to accomplish balancing the material thickness on all the 4 BAs and i don't want to risk damaging the mesh 

We'll see. I think i need to wait another week or so


----------



## chinmie

Superluc said:


> I was thinking about cover the nozzle, blocking the material with the tips, like it seem on your second photo. Shoving something down on the tips is not a secure solution
> 
> It all depends on how that affect sound, but the benefit of a non-intrusive mod is the easier change of material you can do.
> Slater's mod on the BAs might be the ideal solution for the ZS6, anyway, but it seem more difficult to accomplish balancing the material thickness on all the 4 BAs and i don't want to risk damaging the mesh
> ...



yes, the benefit of this mod is it is reversible and non intrusive, as we don't have to open the grill at all. 

what you see in the first photo is not shoving it through the grill, but the foams are just resting inside the rubber tips (right above the grill). it works on smaller bore eartips (like the spinfits on my first photo), they won't move around.  but doing it on a large bore, we have to pinch them in between rubber tips and nozzle to get them secure in place


----------



## Slater

c4rb0n said:


> Thanks sir Slater. Im planing to buy the ZSTs but i saw the ES3s, both have 1DD+1BA, would love to hear your thoughts sir on which is better between the two



I don't have the ES3 unfortunately.

You could search in this thread, as many others do own the ES3. The overwhelming majority of ES3 comments I've read in this thread have been positive.


----------



## mono-type (Oct 27, 2017)

chinmie said:


> for a more non-intrusive option, you might be able to try this mod that tried using earbud foams, and shoving it down the tips or pinching it between the nozzle and the tube


Just tried this mod right now, and I definitely hear improvements; the sibilance and the shrill treble are tamed, and the bass is enhanced, just what I wanted for the ZS6. As I prefer silicone tips over foams (foams are kinda a hassle for me, with all those pinching and rolling before you insert them into your ear), this is a big help, and it's also non-intrusive (I don't have enough guts to try Slater's mod, and also I'm kinda OC, as I don't want to ruin the mesh of my ZS6 ).



Superluc said:


> I was thinking about cover the nozzle, blocking the material with the tips, like it seem on your second photo. Shoving something down on the tips is not a secure solution


That's also my concern, too. I'm worrying that the foam might fall off on my ear canal. XD Is there any way for the foams to be stuck above the mesh of the ZS6?


----------



## Superluc

mono-type said:


> Is there any way for the foams to be stuck above the mesh of the ZS6?


 Just do a bigger circle of material. If the tips grip tight the nozzle, the material don't move.


----------



## mono-type

Superluc said:


> Just do a bigger circle of material. If the tips grip tight the nozzle, the material don't move.


Already tried that, and the small piece of foam slips around when I try to insert the tips.  Ended up just shoving down the foam instead, just like @chinmie did. Oh well, I think that will do for now.


----------



## Superluc

mono-type said:


> Already tried that, and the small piece of foam slips around when I try to insert the tips.




Do it bigger, envelop the nozzle, keep it with the fingers, put the tips over it.


----------



## chinmie

mono-type said:


> Already tried that, and the small piece of foam slips around when I try to insert the tips.  Ended up just shoving down the foam instead, just like @chinmie did. Oh well, I think that will do for now.



try making rectangular strip, as wide as the nozzle 's diameter (or a little bit bigger is okay), but give enough length so that you can hold it with your fingers before inserting the tips. it might be tricky in the beginning, but it's doable


----------



## Sebilion

Does anyone know a good cable for the ZS6? One that is better than the original one?


----------



## Superluc

Sebilion said:


> Does anyone know a good cable for the ZS6? One that is better than the original one?


If you want to know if an upgrade cable change something, you better know that they are mostly needed for take away the microphonics, those strange noises that you can feel on sound when you hurting the cable. Sound-wise the upgrade will be marginal, there is a lot of other things that can change more the sound.


----------



## Superluc

I have this one.
Others use this, cutting the plastic at the end for better fit.


----------



## maxxevv

young59 said:


> Would mind providing the link to those the only one I found at that price were the carbon fiber one and I don't want that one.



I got them from here: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32703512553.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ROxuSy

But they seemed to have increased the prices in anticipation of 11.11.  I paid about US$2/ 2 pieces.


----------



## bsoplinger

maxxevv said:


> I got them from here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32703512553.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ROxuSy
> 
> But they seemed to have increased the prices in anticipation of 11.11.  I paid about US$2/ 2 pieces.


They're 2 for $2.21 so that's still close to $1 apiece.


----------



## ReBreaker

Anyone hesitate about to grab the ZS6 red for 26 bucks from GB now or wait what will show up 11.11? That's the question. The lower the price the better for me at the moment coz I'm still firing up my modded ZS5...


----------



## oyobass

ReBreaker said:


> Anyone hesitate about to grab the ZS6 red for 26 bucks from GB now or wait what will show up 11.11? That's the question. The lower the price the better for me at the moment coz I'm still firing up my modded ZS5...


I ordered a green one Wednesday, along with a carbon ZST. I guess the price was 'good enough' for me at 26.00 and 9.00 respectively. I tend to agonize over saving a few pesos here and there, so just buying them now at a significant discount was a freeing experience, lol.
Add to that the likelihood of order processing and shipping may be slowed to a crawl on and after 11.11 and I figure I have a win-win situation...


----------



## lowendtheory77

Has anyone done a comparison between the ZSE and the ZS6? I’m curious about the ZS6 but the ZSE has taken my heart. To my ears, they sound like the iem equivalent of my grado SR80’s and only for $6!!!


----------



## xrk971

Where are you guys getting the ZS6 for $26? Oblivious here.


----------



## TheVortex

xrk971 said:


> Where are you guys getting the ZS6 for $26? Oblivious here.



Gearbest with discount codes but they are only a short term code. Gerorge from gearbest puts the codes in another thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/201...uedio-f2-62-99-bluedio-te-8-99.832367/page-30


----------



## kokakolia

lowendtheory77 said:


> Has anyone done a comparison between the ZSE and the ZS6? I’m curious about the ZS6 but the ZSE has taken my heart. To my ears, they sound like the iem equivalent of my grado SR80’s and only for $6!!!



Uh.... okay! Glad you like em!


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> Uh.... okay!


They are source sensitive, as to me they are more precise with my Fulla than my portable rig, but maybe @lowendtheory77 say it just thinking about the signature.

Anyway... have you try to EQ them a bit ?


----------



## kokakolia

Superluc said:


> They are source sensitive, as to me they are more precise with my Fulla than my portable rig, but maybe @lowendtheory77 say it just thinking about the signature.
> 
> Anyway... have you try to EQ them a bit ?



Nah! No EQ. I just plug them into my Bose desktop speakers. I gotta say that they sound a bit better with New Bee foam tips over stock ones. It kinda fixes the splashy treble. I just not blown away. It sounds about congested. But I could see the argument for fixing the bloated mid-bass with EQ. 

Also, I really believe that that KZ ED7 is straight up better. And it'a around the same a price at ~$7.


----------



## fuzun

Superluc said:


> I have this one.
> Others use this, cutting the plastic at the end for better fit.


How does the second one fit even after cutting plastic? It is 0.75mm. Does not ZS5 or ZS6 require 0.78mm cable?

Will I be able to use another cable if I use that one with zs6 ?


----------



## Superluc

fuzun said:


> Does not ZS5 or ZS6 require 0.78mm cable?


Nope. The standard plug used by KZ is for 0.75mm cable


----------



## bsoplinger

TheVortex said:


> Gearbest with discount codes but they are only a short term code. Gerorge from gearbest puts the codes in another thread.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/201...uedio-f2-62-99-bluedio-te-8-99.832367/page-30


Occasionally he mistypes a code or there's a communication problem and the code doesn't work. But he seems to at least try to fix the problem if you post in the thread that there's a problem. Just remember the time zone difference between China and wherever you are when waiting for a fix.


----------



## bsoplinger

fuzun said:


> How does the second one fit even after cutting plastic? It is 0.75mm. Does not ZS5 or ZS6 require 0.78mm cable?
> 
> Will I be able to use another cable if I use that one with zs6 ?


I've seen enough posts that it works that I'd guess either the description is wrong or the pins have enough give that they fit. As far as using any cable goes you'll still be able to use a different one after using the first. They're just press fit so just pull one off and push another one on.


----------



## ReBreaker

oyobass said:


> I ordered a green one Wednesday, along with a carbon ZST. I guess the price was 'good enough' for me at 26.00 and 9.00 respectively. I tend to agonize over saving a few pesos here and there, so just buying them now at a significant discount was a freeing experience, lol.
> Add to that the likelihood of order processing and shipping may be slowed to a crawl on and after 11.11 and I figure I have a win-win situation...


You convinced me sir, ordered along with the flash sale KZ BT v4.2  God help my wallet...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

For everyone talking about foam mods, just grab the foam tips that come with a wax guard. Bam. Done.


----------



## RomStar

Man, after so much research, I feel like it's not worth going for a portable amp/dac for & 100 or under. Got a lot of great suggestions but I'll just get a cheap,  beginner friendly non-potable amp/dac I guess. Anyone have any suggestions? I think the sabaj D3 looks pretty good in this range. I mainly wanna run my Zs5 and Philips shp9500. Apparently some have a bass boost button, that would be preferable since I suck at EQs (I'll also use  zs3, and the plethora of chifi iems with them)

Also, does anyone have any experience with the Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057? 

@hakuzen loved all you're suggestions, but I guess I had to sacrifice portability for maximum sound quality. So is the sabaj D3 a good choice? I mainly wanna run my Philips Sph9500 with bass boost and my Zs5 with extra oomph. I also looked at the Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057, it's got those bass/treble/mids switch. Dunno if it's good tho, but it's only around 40$.

Lastly, would a fiio k1 be a viable option? I hear it's not that good, but thought maybe, if I get a good deal, I'll go for the k1+sabaj d3


----------



## young59

RomStar said:


> Man, after so much research, I feel like it's not worth going for a portable amp/dac for & 100 or under. Got a lot of great suggestions but I'll just get a cheap,  beginner friendly non-potable amp/dac I guess. Anyone have any suggestions? I think the sabaj D3 looks pretty good in this range. I mainly wanna run my Zs5 and Philips shp9500. Apparently some have a bass boost button, that would be preferable since I suck at EQs (I'll also use  zs3, and the plethora of chifi iems with them)
> 
> Also, does anyone have any experience with the Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057?
> 
> ...


Hey I am in the same boat as you.Why not get Fiio Q1 ( they also released a newer Mark II ) and if you need desktop solution the FX Audio Dac X-6 I don't own it personally but plan to and its also in /r/headphones recommended list.


----------



## RomStar

young59 said:


> Hey I am in the same boat as you.Why not get Fiio Q1 ( they also released a newer Mark II ) and if you need desktop solution the FX Audio Dac X-6 I don't own it personally but plan to and its also in /r/headphones recommended list.



Yea i feel you, 
I'm equally confused, supposedly the sabaj d3 is better and the x-6 are about the same price. If anyone can confirm if it's true or not, that would be appreciated. I might get the x-6 as well if it's a solid option that's better than the sabaj d3...Or maybe someone knows a better option... I can be wishful right?


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## vector84 (Oct 28, 2017)

@RomStar, @young59:
FX Audio Dac X-6: 10 ohms output impedance, unknown on coupling caps.
Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057: unknown output impedance (possibly low, but unknown), likely has coupling caps (output stage has a dc bias).
Sabaj D3: unknown output impedance (possibly low, but unknown), likely has coupling caps (output stage has a dc bias).

None of those are really ideal for use with the ZS5.

As for the ones that don't have obvious issues that make them unsuitable:
Fiio K1 is reportedly a bit noisy for use with sensitive IEMs. (limited formats)
Sabaj D2 has limited power output (35mW). (some driver issues?)
Fiio Q1 has more features, but more limited formats.
Fiio Q1 MkII costs more for less power, many more features though


----------



## RomStar (Oct 28, 2017)

vector84 said:


> @RomStar, @young59:
> FX Audio Dac X-6: 10 ohms output impedance, unknown on coupling caps.
> Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057: unknown output impedance (possibly low, but unknown), likely has coupling caps (output stage has a dc bias).
> Sabaj D3: unknown output impedance (possibly low, but unknown), likely has coupling caps (output stage has a dc bias).
> ...



Man it feels bad,
Now I'm back to square 1..... So what's a viable option? Is there anything under 100, that would work with the zs5 and she shp9500? Preferably with the bass switches?

I had high hopes for the dx-6 and sabaj d3, oh well 

Edit: would you or anyone else happen to know any obscure Chinese dac+amp that would satisfy the needs for under  $100?


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 28, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Man, after so much research, I feel like it's not worth going for a portable amp/dac for & 100 or under. Got a lot of great suggestions but I'll just get a cheap,  beginner friendly non-potable amp/dac I guess. Anyone have any suggestions? I think the sabaj D3 looks pretty good in this range. I mainly wanna run my Zs5 and Philips shp9500. Apparently some have a bass boost button, that would be preferable since I suck at EQs (I'll also use  zs3, and the plethora of chifi iems with them)
> 
> Also, does anyone have any experience with the Syba Sonic SD-DAC63057?
> 
> ...


sabaj da3 is also a portable dac, like da2 and fiio k1. they all get digital via USB (input) and convert (DAC) to analog sound which is amplified and goes out through a 3.5mm stereo jack socket, where you plug your head/earphones.
that's way thy are known like "DAC/Amp", because they convert music from digital to analog and then, gets amplified.
but none of them have an analog input to amplify an analog signal. unique input is usb.
so k1+da3 has not sense: they are the same thing.
the difference between them is that da2 and da3 have quite better specifications (noise, distortion, etc.) than k1. difference between da3 and da2, is da3 has an alternative balanced output.
despite of their size, all of them can drive your phones perfectly by their own.

which use can you do of these DAC+Amps? you can connect them to the USB of your PC or of your smartphone (USB OTG cable in this case).

a pure and single headphones amplifier has got an analog input (3.5mm stereo, for example, where you plug in a cable from the stereo output of your pc/smartphone/DAP) and an analog output (to plug your head/earphones), basically. it doesn't convert digital to analog audio (that must be done in your pc/smartphone/DAP).

if the DAC of your pc/smartphone is crap, a DAC+Amp like da2, da3, k1 is a solution.
if the output impedance of your PC/smartphone is high (>1ohm) and/or is using coupling caps, a DAC+Amp but also a single headphones amplifier solves this.
if your smartphone doesn't provide enough audio power to drive your phones, a headphones amplifier but also a DAC+Amp(if enough powerful) solves this.
if your player (DAP) doesn't provide enough audio power to drive your phones, or have high output impedance, or coupling caps, a headphones amplifier solves this.

the fantastic thing of da2 and da3, is they have better specifications than many pc soundcards, and than most smartphones audio's.
the downside of using a dac to replace the dac of your smartphone, is that you have to install drivers (not a problem), and that many smartphone apps are not able to send the output to the usb (using these drivers). so you end using audio dedicated apps (not a problem either).
the problem with single headphones amplifier is that we are looking for enough powerful, output impedance <1ohm, no coupling caps, low noise and distortion. and there are no so many. btw, have you checked fiio's pure headphones amplifiers?


----------



## hakuzen

oops, @vector84 has already provided more info about those dac+amps. da2 low powered, da3 coupling caps. argh.


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Man it feels bad,
> Now I'm back to square 1..... So what's a viable option? Is there anything under 100, that would work with the zs5 and she shp9500? Preferably with the bass switches?
> 
> I had high hopes for the dx-6 and sabaj d3, oh well


Fiio Q1 still has my vote for a do-it-all type solution - a bit noisy for my tastes at ~7uV but hard to find much better for overall feature set.
Sabaj D2 has a slightly lower noise floor (I think?), but quite limited power by comparison.
Fiio Q1 MkII is reportedly a solid choice too, less power in SE, but more formats, balanced output, etc


----------



## young59 (Oct 28, 2017)

Can someone list the things we need to look for from highest to lowest priority for a sub 100$ Dac+Amp/Amp.From what was posted by vector
1.Low output impedance
2.Coupling caps
Please quote this message and I will add or make a list of your own.


----------



## RomStar (Oct 28, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> sabaj da3 is also a portable dac, like da2 and fiio k1. they all get digital via USB (input) and convert (DAC) to analog sound which is amplified and goes out through a 3.5mm stereo jack socket, where you plug your head/earphones.
> that's way thy are known like "DAC/Amp", because they convert music from digital to analog and then, gets amplified.
> but none of them have an analog input to amplify an analog signal. unique input is usb.
> so k1+da3 has not sense: they are the same thing.
> ...



Wow that's explains so much now. Ok let me clear things up for you then. What I really wanted was a better audio experience with portability.  And from what other said , I thought I should use an amp since I was low on budget.

Now I realized I don't really need portability at all, so I was thinking just get the best bang for my buck. My pc is a cheap notebook for university and work, so it's got a close to trash dac. Now I'm thinking a good dac isn't a bad idea as well.

My phone on the other hand has a much better Dac. It's not powerful enough to drive my kz I think and Philips sound dull even at max volume. I was lucky to get the wolfson Dac on my note 5, it is a non-us variant with warm sound. For comparison it's equal or better than iPhone 6s dac. I don't own iPhone 7 so I can't comment (had iPhone 6)

Now I honestly don't know if the items mentioned above are better than my phone dac or not, but I was mostly looking to amp stuff. (I guess it's better than my phone dac?)

Also I did look at Fiio amps, like mont blac e12 and others. Sadly most are above $100 

Now what would you suggest I do? Increase budget or stay in this range? I think maybe amp+dac would be good because then I can use headphones with my computer and at home. I would appreciate a name, I just want to buy one at this point, I also have no idea what coupling capacitors are, and looked for them in specifications as well... Still can't find them 

Edit:@vector84 the q1 mk2 are around 150$, and getting them from USA is more expensive. Do you have any recommendations below 100? Just as @young59 said, I would like an amp+dac I guess now. Let's see if I can find something at this range


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Can someone list the things we need to look for from highest to lowest priority for a sub 100$ Dac+Amp/Amp.From what was posted by vector
> 1.Low output impedance
> 2.Coupling caps


It depends largely on what you need, these are very much needed with regards to the ZS5(v1):
Coupling caps have a calculable roll-off effect, the lower the headphone impedance, the more problematic it is - ZS5(v1) at 4.8 ohms is a big problem.
Low output impedance is necessary when input impedance varies wildly (to prevent coloration) - ZS5(v1) varies from 4.8 to... something very much larger, again a problem.

In general, for IEMs you want very low output impedance, though some specific IEMs don't like it, those are the exception, not the norm.  Coupling caps can be sized to be workable for in-specs applications, but the ZS5(v1) will never be an in-spec application until you get into amps in the $200+ range, so you would do better to avoid them on budget gear.


As a comparison, if you wanted to drive a set of 600 ohm cans, you could abide by up to around 60 ohms of output impedance comfortably, and coupling caps would be the last of your worries.  But you'd need way more actual power output from your output in that case - far more than any of the things that are suitable for driving the ZS5 can provide.


----------



## hakuzen (Dec 28, 2018)

measured again zs6 with different tips, trying to match same distance between BAs and mic (~2.55cm). used 192kHz 24 bits this time.

noticed differences between a narrow foamie and a bigger one; the narrow cuts off less 11kHz peak than the wider.
following @xrk971 hypothesis ("An 11kHz peak would imply something at 1.55cm deep - which may be the hard leading edge of the silicone earplug tip. So changing to foam tips may remove the 11kHz peak") which seems to explain the foamies effect, maybe more surface or more compacted foam in the wider ones help.

anyway, based on last measurements i got,  have tried some simple EQ settings for silicone, small and big foamies. and i'm enjoying the zs6 very very much.

silicone
-2.5 dB       8000Hz       q=6.0
-9.0 dB       11000Hz     q=4.0

foam S
-6.0dB       11000Hz       q=4.0

foam M/L
-4.0dB       11000Hz       q=4.0

if you don't have a parametric equalizer, you'll get similar eq by using a band equalizer, if you can access to 11kHz band (and to 8kHz for silicones).

you can play with your desired gain (the above gains provide a bit more treble than zs5, but that's my preference), and with the frequency offset.

EDIT: due to different insertion and singular characteristic of each ear, the peaks can be located at different frequencies. in order to extend the tolerances, it's better to use lower Q than 4.0; this way you'll catch the peaks better wherever they are.
This is the last eq i've tried with foam tips (L size), which includes lows taming (bass bump is huge for my taste), and forwarded mids:
low shelf filter: 400Hz, Q:0.2, -8.0dB (bass taming)
peak filter 4: 800Hz, Q:0.4, +1.5dB (mids forwarding)
peak filter 6: 8200Hz, Q:4.0, -2.0dB (highs taming)
peak filter 7: 11300Hz, Q:2.0, -4.0dB (highs taming)



Spoiler: New graphs of ZS6 with different tips + EQ filters



(click to enlarge)




EQ filters action:

Silicone:


foam S:


foam M/L:


----------



## RomStar

vector84 said:


> It depends largely on what you need, these are very much needed with regards to the ZS5(v1):
> Coupling caps have a calculable roll-off effect, the lower the headphone impedance, the more problematic it is - ZS5(v1) at 4.8 ohms is a big problem.
> Low output impedance is necessary when input impedance varies wildly (to prevent coloration) - ZS5(v1) varies from 4.8 to... something very much larger, again a problem.
> 
> ...


I think I understand what you mean, I need something with very low impedance and no coupling caps at all. So i know this may be very silly to ask at this stage, what do you recommend to be used with the Zs5 V1? Can you name the amp/dac? I'll try and buy them used. So for the record cheap gear won't be able to drive the zs5?

Does this also apply to the shp9500?


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## vector84 (Oct 28, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Edit:@vector84 the q1 mk2 are around 150$, and getting them from USA is more expensive. Do you have any recommendations below 100? Just as @young59 said, I would like an amp+dac I guess now. Let's see if I can find something at this range


Q1 MkII just showed up on (US) Amazon at $77 fulfilled by Amazon actually...


RomStar said:


> I think I understand what you mean, I need something with very low impedance and no coupling caps at all. So i know this may be very silly to ask at this stage, what do you recommend to be used with the Zs5 V1? Can you name the amp/dac? I'll try and buy them used. So for the record cheap gear won't be able to drive the zs5?


But I went with an original Q1 personally - I picked one up a few weeks ago for $60.  Might be able to get one even cheaper with 11/11 just around the corner.  It's a known and well regarded product, the MkII is brand new, and while most reviews are glowing, a few have noted EMI problems, which is not what I want to hear about an amp for use with streaming music, personally. 

And cheap gear won't drive the ZS5 within specs - but this whole discussion is about how to drive them well enough without staying in specs 



RomStar said:


> Does this also apply to the shp9500?


I don't own them, but based on specs, I think they would suffer more from power/current concerns?  Sabaj D2 / Fiio K1 might suffer considerably on that front.  Original Q1 would probably be better than Q1 MkII for them? but again not a personal experience, just from specs.


----------



## hakuzen

RomStar said:


> Wow that's explains so much now. Ok let me clear things up for you then. What I really wanted was a better audio experience with portability.  And from what other said , I thought I should use an amp since I was low on budget.
> 
> Now I realized I don't really need portability at all, so I was thinking just get the best bang for my buck. My pc is a cheap notebook for university and work, so it's got a close to trash dac. Now I'm thinking a good dac isn't a bad idea as well.
> 
> ...



from what i know (the stuff i own), two samples of very versatile amplifiers + DAC/amp with very good quality, which you can use as pure headphones amplifiers when needed (no DAC), or as DAC+Amp when needed are:
iBasso D14 (198€ now at https://headphoniaks.com/tienda/ibasso-d14-bushmaster/, for example.)
JDS Labs C5D (189€ now at https://headphoniaks.com/tienda/jds-c5d/, for example).
none of them uses coupling caps. C5D output impedance is 0.62ohm (i'd wish even lower for zs5, but it is ok). D14 output impedance is near zero, and also has got optical inputs (and line out).
i have to test them with zs5 (will do it now), but probably they are more than capable to drive them and your phones.
yep, i know, they are 2 x $100 each, but consider to aim to these kind of amplifier / dac / dac+amp (all in one). maybe only one item is able to satisfy all your needs (pc, smartphone, DAP) and you are saving money at last..


----------



## RomStar

vector84 said:


> Q1 MkII just showed up on (US) Amazon at $77 fulfilled by Amazon actually...
> 
> But I went with an original Q1 personally - I picked one up a few weeks ago for $60.  Might be able to get one even cheaper with 11/11 just around the corner.  It's a known and well regarded product, the MkII is brand new, and while most reviews are glowing, a few have noted EMI problems, which is not what I want to hear about an amp for use with streaming music, personally.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great feed back. So let me see if I understand

I can use the fiio q1 mk1 with the zs5 to gain improvements right? But it also depends on how well it's used right?

And thanks for also commenting on the Phillips, so the q1 should also do a decent job of powering it? If it's a yes, then I'm getting the Q1 for sure 



vector84 said:


> Q1 MkII just showed up on (US) Amazon at $77



Here is the issue, most products from Amazon us don't ship to Australia. And Google search and top results are all from eBay and have a price tag of 150$ :/


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## RomStar

hakuzen said:


> from what i know (the stuff i own), two samples of very versatile amplifiers + DAC/amp with very good quality, which you can use as pure headphones amplifiers when needed (no DAC), or as DAC+Amp when needed are:
> iBasso D14 (198€ now at https://headphoniaks.com/tienda/ibasso-d14-bushmaster/, for example.)
> JDS Labs C5D (189€ now at https://headphoniaks.com/tienda/jds-c5d/, for example).
> none of them uses coupling caps. C5D output impedance is 0.62ohm (i'd wish even lower for zs5, but it is ok). D14 output impedance is near zero, and also has got optical inputs (and line out).
> ...


Ah thanks for the reply, 

That's a better option than wasting $100, let's see if I can grab a pair of them used or around 130$ during 11.11

Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but if I see a good deal I'll jump on those


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## hakuzen (Oct 28, 2017)

wow, the fiio Q1 mkII seems to fit your needs, @RomStar, and it is not expensive at all. now you have some items to stalk for..


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## RomStar (Oct 28, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> wow, the fiio Q1 mkII seems to fit your needs, @RomStar and it is not expensive at all


Yayay, u dunno how happy I am lol

I was looking at jd labs c5d prices, it's a minimum of $320, and can't find them used. Only one is from eBay and are priced USA 220+190tax.

So as @vector84 said, is the Q1 older good enough? Or do I need the Q1 Mark 2?

Still happy I don't have to break my bank with those $400 amp+dac yet. Still too new to venture that far haha


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## vector84 (Oct 28, 2017)

RomStar said:


> So as vector said, is the Q1 older one enough? Or do I need the Q1 Mark 2?


They're really just pretty different despite both being called Q1.

MkII has half the battery life and less than half the power output in SE mode, but offers more input formats including native DSD, balanced outputs, an iOS certification, and I think a slightly lower noise floor?

EDIT: Oops, also digital volume on the MkII = better channel matching at the lowest volumes.


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## hakuzen

be patient, you've found there might be some options, q1, q1 mkii, d14, c5d, but also xduoo xd-05, and many others.. time to stalk for after-market units, discounts everywhere..
the problem was that there are not specs about driving 4.8ohms multi-BA phones, from makers, but neither from people analysis.
@xrk971 confirmed a class A amplifier is needed, i tested some cheap daps to find they weren't suitable. when i get some time, i'll test zs5 with these amp+dac+amp units (C5D and D14, for example), but surely they'll be more than enough.


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> q1, q1 mkii, d14, c5d, but also xduoo xd-05, and many others.. time to stalk for after-market units, discounts everywhere..


That list there covers pretty much everything I was looking out for deals on besides: Oppo HA-2SE and Fiio E17K.


----------



## young59

Would using an impedance adaptor the ZS5 widen our potential options?


----------



## maxxevv

There are a few "Class A" portable headphone amps to be found on Aliexpress. But whether they are any good is unknown unfortunately.  Saw one sometime back that lists it suitable for 8~600 Ohms.  Not sure if I'm able to find it anymore though. 

But most of these are pretty battery hungry, as such a huge 4000mAh battery may not last 8 hours. Versus a tiny Fiio that maybe half or 1/3 capacity and good for double that !


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Would using an impedance adaptor the ZS5 widen our potential options?


A voltage divider based one like the iFi IEMatch or EarBuddy would widen your potential options *enormously* though they require significant volume headroom.  They allow you to ignore output impedance (as it will be the 1 or 1.5 of the voltage divider) and raise input impedance to a flat 16 ohms, making coupling capacitors much less of an issue as long as they are sized properly (undersized ones will still produce predictable sub-bass roll-off based off 16 ohms input impedance).

Honestly it's shocking to me that iFi doesn't market them for such purposes...


Series resistor based ones would color the sound heavily as it's the same as having elevated output impedance, but should largely avoid coupling capacitor issues, I believe?


----------



## young59

Yeah I planned to make one but got the wrong resistors I will order the right one and will make an impedance adaptor


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## vector84

young59 said:


> Yeah I planned to make one but got the wrong resistors I will order the right one and will make an impedance adaptor


Maybe someone with more knowledge of things could say for sure, but I think with a voltage divider based attenuator setup, you'd be more concerned with clean driving power - able to put out something like 10x (depending on attenuation factor) your desired power value into 16 ohms (or whatever input impedance your adapter has) without significant distortion, something that small portable players and phones might struggle with depending on implementation, but a real amp should do better.


----------



## young59

I intend on making an impedance adaptor as stated here .
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/headphone-attenuation-adapter/

But I plan to use lower values 15 ohm& 1.5  ohm instead of 33 ohm & 3.3 ohm.


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Q1 MkII just showed up on (US) Amazon at $77 fulfilled by Amazon actually...
> 
> _*And cheap gear won't drive the ZS5 within specs...*_



Are you saying the FiiO won't drive the ZS5 within specs?


----------



## vector84

Slater said:


> Are you saying the FiiO won't drive the ZS5 within specs?


FiiO cites recommended headphone impedance as 16-100 ohms SE and 16-150 ohms balanced so 4.8 ohms isn't really within specs right?

I'm pretty sure it will work just fine though


----------



## xrk971

Guys, really there's no need to avoid coupling caps.  When implemented well, many of the top world class amps (like many SE Class A) use coupling caps and well, sound world class.  Your DAC probably has a cap in the signal path.  And you know what, in the studio where all the music is recorded using balanced line mics, preamps, mixers, all that XLR cabling with balanced lines to reduce noise pickup that pros use... well they have coupling caps (one ea) for the 600ohm line drivers.  Anyhow, if you fear them for the sake of fearing them, you are reallly limiting yourself without good cause.


----------



## xrk971

hakuzen said:


> measured again zs6 with different tips, trying to match same distance between BAs and mic (~2.55cm). used 192kHz 24 bits this time.
> 
> noticed differences between a narrow foamie and a bigger one; the narrow cuts off less 11kHz peak than the wider.
> following @xrk971 hypothesis ("An 11kHz peak would imply something at 1.55cm deep - which may be the hard leading edge of the silicone earplug tip. So changing to foam tips may remove the 11kHz peak") which seems to explain the foamies effect, maybe more surface or more compacted foam in the wider ones help.
> ...



Super work Hakuzen!


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 28, 2017)

young59 said:


> Would using an impedance adaptor the ZS5 widen our potential options?


the impedance adapter was one of the solutions to tame the highs of zs6, due to its special impedance curve. but this is an exception: impedance adapter usually alters frequency response when applied to iems with BAs, which isn't desirable. this alteration, when applied to zs6 specifically, was a benefit casually.
in the case of zs5, you'll notice harsher upper mids and treble, and we don't want more sibilance in zs5. higher the impedance, harsher the effect. check the effect in one of my graphs, when applying a source output impedance of 15 ohms or something similar. i wouldn't consider it a solution.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918


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## hakuzen

xrk971 said:


> Super work Hakuzen!


thanks! you stimulated me to redo the measurements.


xrk971 said:


> Guys, really there's no need to avoid coupling caps.  When implemented well, many of the top world class amps (like many SE Class A) use coupling caps and well, sound world class.  Your DAC probably has a cap in the signal path.  And you know what, in the studio where all the music is recorded using balanced line mics, preamps, mixers, all that XLR cabling with balanced lines to reduce noise pickup that pros use... well they have coupling caps (one ea) for the 600ohm line drivers.  Anyhow, if you fear them for the sake of fearing them, you are reallly limiting yourself without good cause.


there is no problem with output coupling caps, when you plug a high load, 600ohm phones, or let's say 60ohms, or an amplifier, to the output, or when the capacity of the caps is big enough.
but check what happened to bass when connecting zs5 (4.8ohms) to a source with output caps of 470uF (value you find in many daps or amplifiers):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918


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## xrk971 (Oct 28, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> thanks! you stimulated me to redo the measurements.
> 
> there is no problem with output coupling caps, when you plug a high load, 600ohm phones, or let's say 60ohms, or an amplifier, to the output, or when the capacity of the caps is big enough.
> but check what happened to bass when connecting zs5 (4.8ohms) to a source with output caps of 470uF (value you find in many daps or amplifiers):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918



I agree that 470uF cap is not good. It's too small. That's why I said, when well implemented.

The cap needs to be sized so that the f3 cutoff frequency is about 2 octaves below what the actual cutoff will be. So, for a 16ohm headphone, the equation for first order RC filter cutoff frequency is: f3=1/(2 pi R C)

Set f3 at say 5Hz (2 octaves below 20Hz), solve for C with R set to 16ohms and we get 2000uF.  So in his case, a 2200uF cap (or two 1000uF Panasonic OSCONs in parallel) would give very deep bass extension down to 20Hz with almost zero attenuation and down to 5Hz with -3dB. The OSCONs have advantage of ultra low ESR and are what I use in my amps. Sometimes I add 10uF Silmic II bypass cap for folks who like a smoother sound.


----------



## hakuzen

xrk971 said:


> I agree that 470uF cap is not good. It's too small. That's why I said, when well implemented.
> 
> The cap needs to be sized so that the f3 cutoff frequency is about 2 octaves below what the actual cutoff will be. So, for a 16ohm headphone, the equation for first order RC filter cutoff frequency is: f3=1/(2 pi R C)
> 
> Set f3 at say 5Hz (2 octaves below 20Hz), solve for C with R set to 16ohms and we get 2000uF.  So in his case, a 2200uF cap (or two 1000uF Panasonic OSCONs in parallel) would give very deep bass extension down to 20Hz with almost zero attenuation and down to 5Hz with -3dB. The OSCONs have advantage of ultra low ESR and are what I use in my amps. Sometimes I add 10uF Silmic II bypass cap for folks who like a smoother sound.


love to know the maths/physics behind any thing, thanks!


----------



## groucho69

My ZuperDAC worked wonders on my laptop and drives the ZS5 easily. Even drives my HE-400i.


----------



## skajohyros

vector84 said:


> FiiO cites recommended headphone impedance as 16-100 ohms SE and 16-150 ohms balanced so 4.8 ohms isn't really within specs right?
> 
> I'm pretty sure it will work just fine though



My nx1s, which is supposed to be 16-300 ohms, works fine with the zs5 to my untrained ears. And even better with the cap bypass mod. I think these entry level amps are fine for us beginners.


----------



## vegetaleb

I asked Easy Earphones about 11.11 and if the deals will only be coupons based, he said that like previous years they will use real promotions.
If that's true it will mean the ZS5 will be under 20$ 
I bought the ZS3 at 10$ last year instead of 19$ from them


----------



## xrk971 (Oct 28, 2017)

I have heard great things about the Cayin N3.  Very nice DAC chip and very good reviews.

I may get this myself as my iPhone 6s is about to get upgraded to iPhone 8 which has no analog out for my SE Class A amps. This is a forced upgrade with company phone.


----------



## groucho69

xrk971 said:


> I have heard great things about the Cayin N3.  Very nice DAC chip and very good reviews.
> 
> I may get this myself as my iPhone 6s is about to get upgraded to iPhone 8 which has no analog out for my SE Class A amps. This is a forced upgrade with company phone.



I love mine.


----------



## trumpethead

c4rb0n said:


> I have done sir @HerrWallen 's variation on sir @Slater 's foam mod for the Zs6 and it really does tame the sibilance, it doesn't muffle the highs at all and overall it just looks neat inside. I've attached an image on how it looks like, Btw i used the foam on the KZ hard case


I'm curious, do you think you would get the same results if you stuff a timy bit of foam into the eartip before putting it on the nozzle or would that change the sound signature too much..seems like it would be easier than removing the screen....


----------



## Happy Hacking

Hi all, I'm pretty new to chi-fi and after some reading up, I've went ahead and ordered the zs6($30) + ofc cable($7), and hoping to pair them with my knockoff t400 comply foam tips once they arrive. 

My question is, is an amp really necessary to power these? How much of an improvement will I get if I drop an extra $30 on an nx1s? I find it really hard to justify a 1:1 headphone:amp spending ratio...or is that just my old fashioned way of thinking?


----------



## HungryPanda

I just plug my ZS6 into my daps or phone, that is all they need


----------



## Superluc

Happy Hacking said:


> Hi all, I'm pretty new to chi-fi and after some reading up, I've went ahead and ordered the zs6($30) + ofc cable($7), and hoping to pair them with my knockoff t400 comply foam tips once they arrive.
> 
> My question is, is an amp really necessary to power these? How much of an improvement will I get if I drop an extra $30 on an nx1s? I find it really hard to justify a 1:1 headphone:amp spending ratio...or is that just my old fashioned way of thinking?


But it may depends also on what source you want to use them. What's your DAP ?


----------



## Happy Hacking

Superluc said:


> But it may depends also on what source you want to use them. What's your DAP ?


My phone. A OnePlus 3T. 
Would there be a noticable difference for my untrained ears, if i get a nx1s amp to pair with it?


----------



## xrk971

They will work with a phone. But they sound much better with an amp. You won't know what you are missing until you try it. 16ohm impedance needs a lot of current and phones or DAPs without a true power amp stage will not sound as good as a real power amp


----------



## RomStar

I basically know what i have to get to drive my zs5s, zs3s, and shp 9500. Its mainly cuz of a lot of amazing reply's i got here.

But i just came across a used Fiio e12 for 100$. Normally it retails here for around 200$ here and it seems to be in great condition. So should i just buy that?

@vector84 @hakuzen ?


----------



## vector84 (Oct 29, 2017)

RomStar said:


> I basically know what i have to get to drive my zs5s, zs3s, and shp 9500. Its mainly cuz of a lot of amazing reply's i got here.
> 
> But i just came across a used Fiio e12 for 100$. Normally it retails here for around 200$ here and it seems to be in great condition. So should i just buy that?
> 
> @vector84 @hakuzen ?


FiiO E12 is a serious powerhouse of an amp as compared to the kiddy toys we've been talking about (880mW), but it uses 2200uF caps by the looks of it, which with the ZS5 gives a 15 Hz F3 - so there will still be some potentially noticeable sub-bass roll-off with that pairing, but a lot less than undersized caps (those are plenty big enough for specs, but you need something like 6600uF caps to completely avoid roll-off with the ZS5, which is unrealistically big).  As you might expect with that much power, it's a prone to being somewhat noisy for high sensitivity IEMs (hence having a dedicated IEM version) the original has a ~45uV absolute noise floor (The Q1 is ~7uV for comparison - and budget king for noise floor is probably the Topping NX1s despite its other faults, ~3uV).

Great all-around amp, but it might be a bit noisy without an attenuator or similar, and it will have a bit of sub-bass roll-off with the ZS5. (you can fix both of these with an attenuator though)

EDIT: Don't think my sub-bass roll-off math or cap reading skills are adequate.


----------



## RomStar

vector84 said:


> FiiO E12 is a serious powerhouse of an amp as compared to the kiddy toys we've been talking about (880mW), but it uses 2200uF caps by the looks of it, which with the ZS5 gives a 15 Hz F3 - so there will still be some potentially noticeable sub-bass roll-off with that pairing, but a lot less than undersized caps (those are plenty big enough for specs, but you need something like 6600uF caps to completely avoid roll-off with the ZS5, which is unrealistically big).  As you might expect with that much power, it's a prone to being somewhat noisy for high sensitivity IEMs (hence having a dedicated IEM version) the original has a ~45uV absolute noise floor (The Q1 is ~7uV for comparison - and budget king for noise floor is probably the Topping NX1s despite its other faults, ~3uV).
> 
> Great all-around amp, but it might be a bit noisy without an attenuator or similar, and it will have a bit of sub-bass roll-off with the ZS5. (you can fix both of these with an attenuator though)



Wait Is the mont blac the IEM version? The Seller is selling the mont blac e12k. idk if the e12k and e12 are the same thing or not. when I Google it shows me results for e12 :0

So should I get it for 100? or is the q1 a better option?


----------



## c4rb0n

trumpethead said:


> I'm curious, do you think you would get the same results if you stuff a timy bit of foam into the eartip before putting it on the nozzle or would that change the sound signature too much..seems like it would be easier than removing the screen....


I think so bro. And its less invasive too  you can try putting some foam on the tips first before opting to do sir Slater's mod, i think the effect would be similar just make a foam that fits securely on the tips and be 
careful not to drop the foam inside your ear canal


----------



## vector84 (Oct 29, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Wait Is the mont blac the IEM version? The Seller is selling the mont blac e12k. idk if the e12k and e12 are the same thing or not. when I Google it shows me results for e12 :0


This is confusing, there's no official E12K, though a quick Google search suggests that might be another name for the A5 - which confuses me a bit, FiiO's features page cites a lack of coupling caps, but then shows a picture right below that with some 2.2uF WIMA caps. 

And those are 2.2uF caps, not 2200 - so I'm totally wrong about the roll-off effect there! I think... this is what happens when you ask an amateur to try to do complicated things 
FiiO's own FR plot on the A5 shows a 3dB roll-off at around 5.5Hz @32ohms though, so again no idea what's actually going on there.


Or it could be E12 (Mont Blanc), E12A (Mont Blanc IEM Special Edition), E12 DIY (DIY Limited Edition, swappable opamps), E11K (A3), E17K (Alpen 2) ?

If it's an A5 that seems like a pretty good price for one, though obviously no DAC, just an amp and it might have some sub-bass rolloff without additional attenuation.  The A5 has somewhat limited battery life too (~13 hours).  But again, it's a serious powerhouse that should be able to power all but the hardest to drive cans.


----------



## c4rb0n

Happy Hacking said:


> My question is, is an amp really necessary to power these? How much of an improvement will I get if I drop an extra $30 on an nx1s? I find it really hard to justify a 1:1 headphone:amp spending ratio...or is that just my old fashioned way of thinking?


I bought a Benjie S5 just out of curiosity too and for me it was worth it, But its just a DAP though and has no DAC and its pretty damn cheap. Im really tight on my budget this month too and im planning on buying an AMP next month haha. But those entry level DAPs is enough for me. On my android phone im using Viper4Android and it handles all of my 3 Kz's pretty well too, i really like the spectrum extension and EQ on that app haha


----------



## vector84

Happy Hacking said:


> Hi all, I'm pretty new to chi-fi and after some reading up, I've went ahead and ordered the zs6($30) + ofc cable($7), and hoping to pair them with my knockoff t400 comply foam tips once they arrive.
> 
> My question is, is an amp really necessary to power these? How much of an improvement will I get if I drop an extra $30 on an nx1s? I find it really hard to justify a 1:1 headphone:amp spending ratio...or is that just my old fashioned way of thinking?





Happy Hacking said:


> My phone. A OnePlus 3T.
> Would there be a noticable difference for my untrained ears, if i get a nx1s amp to pair with it?


*I don't own a ZS6 or an NX1s *but I'd remind you that this lengthy discussion regarding amps is as it regards the ZS5 (v1) and it's absurdly picky source dependence.  Going off the numbers, the ZS6 should be *far* more source tolerant.  Since I don't have the items in question though I can't say much more than that.


----------



## hakuzen

RomStar said:


> Wait Is the mont blac the IEM version? The Seller is selling the mont blac e12k. idk if the e12k and e12 are the same thing or not. when I Google it shows me results for e12 :0
> 
> So should I get it for 100? or is the q1 a better option?


fiio e12 uses symmetric voltage, -11 to 11V (total 22V), so no coupling caps. but i don't think you need the power it is able to deliver, to drive zs5.
fiio q1 doesn't reach that power, but it's also a DAC (amp & DAC+amp), and i think it can drive zs5 well enough.
so q1 is more versatile, battery drain will be huge in e12. unless you plan to drive high impedance low sensitivity phones in the future, q1 would be better solution for the money.
let me check jds labs c5d (less powerful than q1, i think) and other gear, too see if they are able to drive zs5 at reasonable volume, when i get a moment.
i only checked a cheap dap, which wasn't capable, obviously. let's see how other gear work. so wait a bit, please


----------



## Deveraux

After a few weeks of use I'm really liking the ZS5 with my personal EQ settings on V4A. But there's only one severe problem I'm having. I like high bass on every music I listen to and hence I pump up the bass to a reasonable extent (still less than what a 10$ Panasonic can easily produce). The problem is, there is some crackling noise in the background whenever the sub bass kicks in. Some kind of rattling sound, not distortion though. The rattel/crackle is more with the silver cable than the black one (surprised).

Any idea what it is? Anybody experiencing the same?


----------



## RomStar

vector84 said:


> FiiO E12 is a serious powerhouse of an amp as compared to the kiddy toys we've been talking about (880mW), but it uses 2200uF caps by the looks of it, which with the ZS5 gives a 15 Hz F3 - so there will still be some potentially noticeable sub-bass roll-off with that pairing, but a lot less than undersized caps (those are plenty big enough for specs, but you need something like 6600uF caps to completely avoid roll-off with the ZS5, which is unrealistically big).  As you might expect with that much power, it's a prone to being somewhat noisy for high sensitivity IEMs (hence having a dedicated IEM version) the original has a ~45uV absolute noise floor (The Q1 is ~7uV for comparison - and budget king for noise floor is probably the Topping NX1s despite its other faults, ~3uV).
> 
> Great all-around amp, but it might be a bit noisy without an attenuator or similar, and it will have a bit of sub-bass roll-off with the ZS5. (you can fix both of these with an attenuator though)
> 
> EDIT: Don't think my sub-bass roll-off math or cap reading skills are adequate.



Tbh, i wouldn't label you as an amateur tho. Ive seen you add to discussions and helped me out alongside hakuzen to narrow my options a lot, so thanks ^^

And the fiio e12 and e12k thing is super damn confusing, meh doesnt matter i guess. Q1 looks very attractive now 



hakuzen said:


> fiio e12 uses symmetric voltage, -11 to 11V (total 22V), so no coupling caps. but i don't think you need the power it is able to deliver, to drive zs5.
> fiio q1 doesn't reach that power, but it's also a DAC (amp & DAC+amp), and i think it can drive zs5 well enough.
> so q1 is more versatile, battery drain will be huge in e12. unless you plan to drive high impedance low sensitivity phones in the future, q1 would be better solution for the money.
> let me check jds labs c5d (less powerful than q1, i think) and other gear, too see if they are able to drive zs5 at reasonable volume, when i get a moment.
> i only checked a cheap dap, which wasn't capable, obviously. let's see how other gear work. so wait a bit, please



Thanks for all the help so far  ^^

Yea i wanted to wait, but these used listing dont usually last too long. I was thinking maybe get them while i can 

And ur graphs and info are very helpful, ill be patient till 11.11 and see what pops up


----------



## vector84 (Oct 29, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> After a few weeks of use I'm really liking the ZS5 with my personal EQ settings on V4A. But there's only one severe problem I'm having. I like high bass on every music I listen to and hence I pump up the bass to a reasonable extent (still less than what a 10$ Panasonic can easily produce). The problem is, there is some crackling noise in the background whenever the sub bass kicks in. Some kind of rattling sound, not distortion though. The rattel/crackle is more with the silver cable than the black one (surprised).
> 
> Any idea what it is? Anybody experiencing the same?


A couple guesses would be hard clipping or opamp instability - the former is just annoying (and probably far more likely?), the later could potentially present a slight safety hazard to your gear, I think?

Have you tried taping the inner vents to soothe your bass craving?  Might let you dial back the EQ a bit and still get comfortable results.

EDIT: Sounds like a source issue to me, but a driver stuck in a flexed state might also be a possibility, a few people reported issues like that several hundred pages back that were resolved by blowing down the nozzle of the IEM to un-flex the driver (with some compressed air to avoid introducing moisture maybe? they cited just blowing though ).


----------



## Deveraux

vector84 said:


> A couple guesses would be hard clipping or opamp instability - the former is just annoying (and probably far more likely?), the later could potentially present a slight safety hazard to your gear, I think?
> 
> Have you tried taping the inner vents to soothe your bass craving?  Might let you dial back the EQ a bit and still get comfortable results.
> 
> EDIT: Sounds like a source issue to me, but a driver stuck in a flexed state might also be a possibility, a few people reported issues like that several hundred pages back that were resolved by blowing down the nozzle of the IEM to un-flex the driver (with some compressed air to avoid introducing moisture maybe? they cited just blowing though ).



Wouldn't taping the vents affect the airiness or 3Diness of the sound? I don't want to lose that characteristic of this ZS5. 

The sound is only lightly hearable. But once you hear it you can't get them off. It's like the sound which comes when we plug certain earphones/headphones to the jack. Static sound or whatever it is called? Sorry I'm not able to elaborate properly but I hope you get what I'm talking about. :| 

And btw it happens with every phone which has V4A and my EQ settings on it. On my MBP it's not really noticeable but that's cos it doesn't output sub bass like the phones.


----------



## vector84

Deveraux said:


> Wouldn't taping the vents affect the airiness or 3Diness of the sound? I don't want to lose that characteristic of this ZS5.


Taping the inside vents mostly it just induces a significant bass boost if your ear anatomy doesn't seal the vents when they're in your ears (if they do then taping will pretty much do nothing).


Deveraux said:


> The sound is only lightly hearable. But once you hear it you can't get them off. It's like the sound which comes when we plug certain earphones/headphones to the jack. Static sound or whatever it is called? Sorry I'm not able to elaborate properly but I hope you get what I'm talking about. :|
> 
> And btw it happens with every phone which has V4A and my EQ settings on it. On my MBP it's not really noticeable but that's cos it doesn't output sub bass like the phones.


I would tend to think clipping is the most likely culprit, the ZS5 can demand rather extraordinary amounts of current.  Try taping the vents and dialing back your EQ. If taping gives you too much driver flex you can poke a *tiny* hole in the tape (and not in the mesh on the inside of the vent! *be sure not to damage that!*) to relieve it.  If you can't get favorable results from taping, then you'd probably want to try a sufficiently powerful source to rule out some defect in the IEM itself - if they aren't defective then you might just need more power to drive them.  We've gotten into some pretty lengthy discussions on that topic in the last handful of pages.


----------



## Keller2

Is KZ working on the oxidation issue? 

Upper cable has been in use for maybe two months. They both came with the same order from the same vendor.

The more off axis you view the cable from, the bluer it gets.


----------



## Deveraux

vector84 said:


> Taping the inside vents mostly it just induces a significant bass boost if your ear anatomy doesn't seal the vents when they're in your ears (if they do then taping will pretty much do nothing).
> 
> I would tend to think clipping is the most likely culprit, the ZS5 can demand rather extraordinary amounts of current.  Try taping the vents and dialing back your EQ. If taping gives you too much driver flex you can poke a *tiny* hole in the tape (and not in the mesh on the inside of the vent! *be sure not to damage that!*) to relieve it.  If you can't get favorable results from taping, then you'd probably want to try a sufficiently powerful source to rule out some defect in the IEM itself - if they aren't defective then you might just need more power to drive them.  We've gotten into some pretty lengthy discussions on that topic in the last handful of pages.



I've read posts here saying taping up reduces bass (??) and some other saying after he taped up it sounds a little muddier.

I'm a student and don't have much money to shell out.  Would a Fiio A1 amplifier show some improvement? I'm using an S7 Edge Exynos btw.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 29, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> Wouldn't taping the vents affect the airiness or 3Diness of the sound? I don't want to lose that characteristic of this ZS5.
> The sound is only lightly hearable. But once you hear it you can't get them off. *It's like the sound which comes when we plug certain earphones/headphones to the jack. Static sound or whatever it is called?* Sorry I'm not able to elaborate properly but I hope you get what I'm talking about. :|
> And btw* it happens with every phone which has V4A and my EQ settings on it.* On my MBP it's not really noticeable but that's cos it doesn't output sub bass like the phones.


Seems like 2 options:
1) You are having grounding issue (cable soldering problem)
2) Your EQ settings mess up FR between two dynamic units and cause "overlapping" frequencies.

If You want slightly boosted and punchier bass presence and response, I would rather add another small piece of breathing port cover material than poke a hole in existing one - I`m talking about breathing hole near nozzle joining to IEM body, on the shell inner side.

Usually taping up or adding material to breathing ports raises bass quantity and punchyness due to increased pressure on eardrum. Negative side - closing ports totally can cause driver flex. 
There are some IEM though that react opposite but their inner structure and venting is usually differently routed also.


----------



## vector84

Deveraux said:


> I've read posts here saying taping up reduces bass (??) and some other saying after he taped up it sounds a little muddier.
> 
> I'm a student and don't have much money to shell out.  Would a Fiio A1 amplifier show some improvement? I'm using an S7 Edge Exynos btw.


Unsure on the A1 - components seem compatible with ZS5, but FR shows enough roll-off @33 ohms to confuse me.  Reviews suggest a somewhat high noise floor but I can't find an exact value (>9uV though).  I don't think an Enyxos based phone should struggle *that* badly though, so I'm probably just wrong and you should listen to @CoiL


----------



## RomStar

Deveraux said:


> Wouldn't taping the vents affect the airiness or 3Diness of the sound? I don't want to lose that characteristic of this ZS5.
> 
> The sound is only lightly hearable. But once you hear it you can't get them off. It's like the sound which comes when we plug certain earphones/headphones to the jack. Static sound or whatever it is called? Sorry I'm not able to elaborate properly but I hope you get what I'm talking about. :|
> 
> And btw it happens with every phone which has V4A and my EQ settings on it. On my MBP it's not really noticeable but that's cos it doesn't output sub bass like the phones.



Actually know exactly what you mean. My phones not rooted since i use Samsung pay, but ive used Viper before and its amazing.

Now here is what happened, i used an non-root viper alternative called :"noozxoide pro", after using that i started to get similar issues. Its a hissing sound around the bass or lower frequencies and also persisted when i was switching tracks. After hearing once you cant unhear it, just like treble bumps.

It turns out, it interfered with my samsungs "sound alive" and i dont fully know what causes it. In 90% of cases the Rom sound software interferes with Viper, hence i would first post on XDA for a solution. Hope this help, they can usually solve this by disabling or removing stock oem music software   (To test, simply disable Viper Fx and listen to youre track)



Keller2 said:


> Is KZ working on the oxidation issue?
> 
> Upper cable has been in use for maybe two months. They both came with the same order from the same vendor.
> 
> The more off axis you view the cable from, the bluer it gets.



I feel you, i have only used mine for around 1 month, im starting to get it as well. My one is no where near as bad as yours but i feel like its gonna spread rapidly :/

Apparently its only cosmetic and wont affect sound, but it still looks weird. Ill get the zst spc cable, and test if that has the same issues


----------



## vector84 (Oct 29, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Actually know exactly what you mean. My phones not rooted since i use Samsung pay, but ive used Viper before and its amazing.
> 
> Now here is what happened, i used an non-root viper alternative called :"noozxoide pro", after using that i started to get similar issues. Its a hissing sound around the bass or lower frequencies and also persisted when i was switching tracks. After hearing once you cant unhear it, just like treble bumps.
> 
> It turns out, it interfered with my samsungs "sound alive" and i dont fully know what causes it. In 90% of cases the Rom sound software interferes with Viper, hence i would first post on XDA for a solution. Hope this help, they can usually solve this by disabling or removing stock oem music software   (To test, simply disable Viper Fx and listen to youre track)


Wow, I've actually experienced this issue with my tablet, can't believe I didn't think of that...

On my tablet it happens if I enable bass boost but not general EQ in any 3rd party EQ app (because as @RomStar noted, it interferes with Samsung's EQ), but it's so incredibly loud that I didn't connect it with your problem @Deveraux.  If you have EQ turned off, try turning it on even if you don't adjust anything.


----------



## Deveraux

CoiL said:


> Seems like 2 options:
> 1) You are having grounding issue (cable soldering problem)
> 2) Your EQ settings mess up FR between two dynamic units and cause "overlapping" frequencies.
> 
> ...



Both the cables are having the same problem although the stock cable exhibits it a little less.

To be honest, I don't know a thing about modding any earphone/headphone. It'd be helpful if you could provide me a link/pictures to the procedure.



vector84 said:


> Unsure on the A1 - components seem compatible with ZS5, but FR shows enough roll-off @33 ohms to confuse me.  Reviews suggest a somewhat high noise floor but I can't find an exact value (>9uV though).  I don't think an Enyxos based phone should struggle *that* badly though, so I'm probably just wrong and you should listen to @CoiL



Again, I don't understand a single thing what you said just.  In layman's terms, get it or not? I like warm sound btw.



RomStar said:


> Actually know exactly what you mean. My phones not rooted since i use Samsung pay, but ive used Viper before and its amazing.
> 
> Now here is what happened, i used an non-root viper alternative called :"noozxoide pro", after using that i started to get similar issues. Its a hissing sound around the bass or lower frequencies and also persisted when i was switching tracks. After hearing once you cant unhear it, just like treble bumps.
> 
> ...



Yes exactly! Man, you're a saver. But the thing is, the exact same problem happens with a Nexus 6P with V4A too.. It's not just a Samsung thing.

When this thing happens is when I enable the dynamic system option with 'common earphones v2' sound. What it does is, it increases the lower sub bass (the vibrations) frequencies, which is exactly what I want (in right amounts, not overpowering for my tastes).

No other EQ or app or setting can increase the lower sub bass frequencies and hence the issue is not present if I don't use viper.



vector84 said:


> Wow, I've actually experienced this issue with my tablet, can't believe I didn't think of that...
> 
> On my tablet it happens if I enable bass boost but not general EQ in any 3rd party EQ app (because as @RomStar noted, it interferes with Samsung's EQ), but it's so incredibly loud that I didn't connect it with your problem @Deveraux.  If you have EQ turned off, try turning it on even if you don't adjust anything.



Haha.. btw the EQ on the latest software has no On/off toggle..




It is audible specially in tracks like Rockstar by Post Malone (you get the idea I suppose). Some plastic rubbing sound.

I can't for a reason think it's a limitation of the earphone, cos it doesn't sound that way. Is it cos it isn't getting enough power?


----------



## RomStar (Oct 29, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> Yes exactly! Man, you're a saver. But the thing is, the exact same problem happens with a Nexus 6P with V4A too.. It's not just a Samsung thing.
> 
> When this thing happens is when I enable the dynamic system option with 'common earphones v2' sound. What it does is, it increases the lower sub bass (the vibrations) frequencies, which is exactly what I want (in right amounts, not overpowering for my tastes).
> 
> No other EQ or app or setting can increase the lower sub bass frequencies and hence the issue is not present if I don't use viper.



Ah im glad i was able to help, i had the same problem on older phone with Viper.

My point was, it interferes with stock software the oem puts on phone, i was and i guess am heavily involved with android mods and the dev scene (not myself). Basically i fixed it on my tablet by just going to the Viper forum and asking the guys how to delete or properly disable the stock software.

Since you confirmed this is the likely case, just head over to xda.com and post in the viper thread, they are super helpful, gl 




CoiL said:


> Seems like 2 options:
> 1) You are having grounding issue (cable soldering problem)
> 2) Your EQ settings mess up FR between two dynamic units and cause "overlapping" frequencies.
> 
> ...



Ah, actually that very interesting and helps me better understand the dynamics of vent and the breathing room affecting bass. Tbh im super happy with how the zs5 sounds, kinda amazing what 20$ can get you these days.

Also, i dont think the op has any of those issues. Its basically Viper conflicting with oem software, its a very common issue. But id like to learn more about seal and pressure that relate to bass response in iems, sounds like these are beginner friendly mods i can try


----------



## vector84 (Oct 29, 2017)

Deveraux said:


> Haha.. btw the EQ on the latest software has no On/off toggle..


Did you mean android system EQ? Or does latest version of Viper4Android has no toggle to enable EQ? I haven't used it in a while.  I meant enable EQ in V4A (which should disable the stock EQ and fix the problem, or at least it does on my tablet).

And if it's an Android EQ issue, I don't think more power will really help - though it might help you reach your desired volume without distortion, I don't think that's really the issue.

As for the tape mod: (ignore the removed screen, just too lazy to get a better model)


----------



## RomStar (Oct 29, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Did you mean android system EQ? Or does latest version of Viper4Android has no toggle to enable EQ? I haven't used it in a while.  I meant enable EQ in V4A (which should disable the stock EQ and fix the problem, or at least it does on my tablet).
> 
> And if it's an Android EQ issue, I don't think more power will really help - though it might help you reach your desired volume without distortion, I don't think that's really the issue.
> 
> As for the tape mod:


 I actually havnt used Viper myself in some time, no idea how these newer Viper's work. As far as i know, your'e right, @Deveraux should be able to disable stock eq. However i couldn't do that, some eq are system apps, like sound alive for samsung. They require multiple apps to be disabled if memory serves right. Hence in XDA they honestly just link a flashable file, that you dirty flash. Pretty easy, just use Twrp to flash it

Also nice mod, what exactly does that do? I also have the v1s, might try it after you give me some info on it 

Edit: How did you remove that mesh on youre zs5? I tried removing mine, but its not glued like the zs6


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Also nice mod, what exactly does that do? I also have the v1s, might try it after you give me some info on it


@HiFiChris provided a nice visual: http://frequency-response.blogspot.com/2017/06/KZ-ZS5-Frequency-Response.html
It provides a hefty bass boost if you aren't getting a good seal against the inside of your ear over that vent.

You can poke a *tiny* hole in the *tape* if it causes too much driver flex, but make sure to just poke through the tape, *be sure not to puncture the mesh on the far side of that vent!*
(poking through the mesh would reduce bass response considerably)


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Edit: How did you remove that mesh on youre zs5? I tried removing mine, but its not glued like the zs6


The screens are held on by a thin layer of hot glue like substance, I gently separated some of this glue and the edge of the screen from the IEM nozzle with a pin, then pried it out, then used a fine pointed set of tweezers to carefully remove the remaining glue.  *This is a destructive procedure* - even if you get the screen out with minimal damage, you'll need to glue it in place again, or leave the glue and try to press it into the glue (which is a less secure fit) and in the process you'll likely change the shape of the screen significantly, which could be a problem depending on the tolerances of your ZS5.  That pair has no screens because the BAs are mounted too far forward and putting a screen on them causes the BAs to be in direct contact with the screen.  On ones where the BAs are mounted a bit further back I've had success replacing them with 4.7mm screens, but the stock screen is around 5mm with rolled edges to produce a slight rise which helps keep it out of contact with the BAs (most of the time).


----------



## RomStar (Oct 29, 2017)

wow im very surprised, does anyone own Brainwavz b100 (single BA drivers) here? Someone in an audio forum said the b100s are simply superior to the Zs6/Zs5's. Apparently its more natural and not as bloated (Whatever bloated means).

They link to what i presume is @HiFiChris's website (german site i think), and the b100 is supposedly the better under $50 iem. I actually own the Sennheiser Momentum in-ear and i think the Zs5's and Zs6's are simply better. They have simply better instrumental separation and the bass is deeper. The senns are not bad and easily takes build quality imo, but in terms of sound reproduction and mids, the Kzs are a clear winner for me

Can anyone actually comment on this? Apparently the Kzs sound artificial in comparison to b100 and have too much pierce. Since i dont own the b100 i cant comment on this, and i will treat that persons opinion with respect




vector84 said:


> The screens are held on by a thin layer of hot glue like substance, I gently separated some of this glue and the edge of the screen from the IEM nozzle with a pin, then pried it out, then used a fine pointed set of tweezers to carefully remove the remaining glue.  *This is a destructive procedure* - even if you get the screen out with minimal damage, you'll need to glue it in place again, or leave the glue and try to press it into the glue (which is a less secure fit) and in the process you'll likely change the shape of the screen significantly, which could be a problem depending on the tolerances of your ZS5.  That pair has no screens because the BAs are mounted too far forward and putting a screen on them causes the BAs to be in direct contact with the screen.  On ones where the BAs are mounted a bit further back I've had success replacing them with 4.7mm screens, but the stock screen is around 5mm with rolled edges to produce a slight rise which helps keep it out of contact with the BAs (most of the time).



Actually i wanted to try @Slater mod, but i am afraid i will poke the BA and ruin the iems when i try removing the screens...should i get a 2nd pair for this? I love the V1s and dont wanna mess them up. Maybe ill get lucky and receive V2 to test and then i can mod them later

And Jesus christ, i didnt believe in burn-in before but god is it real. I honestly didn't enjoy my zs5 too much at the start, very bright and bass was ok ( i switched from a month of zircon use on commute). Idk if im just drunk but, i plugged my zs5 and played spotify on max volume for hours. The next time i put them on, the bass was much much more deep, the highs were just about perfect, not too bright not too shallow. Idk if these are the affects of burn-in or not, but i can guarantee its not placebo (Simply the best iem i own now)


----------



## bsoplinger

I've been going back through the thread looking at different topics and I'm a bit confused about one of the mods proposed. The KZ5 mode where you put a small piece of tape on the vent on the facing your ear side of the earphone. Now on a standard loudspeaker with an enclosure adding a hole or port allows soundwaves from the back of the speaker to escape the box and increase the volume of sound produced. The size of the hole and possible accompanying tube length changes which frequency is increased, hence the phrase used with speakers that utilize this design of tuned port or tuned bass. This is straightforward physics and I understand that. What confuses me is the tape mod is supposed to do the opposite of what I expect. That is increase bass. What am I missing here? Obviously if folks say more bass and even measure it then it is happening. But I'd have guessed that closing off a port would decrease the level.


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Actually i wanted to try @Slater mod, but i am afraid i will poke the BA and ruin the iems when i try removing the screens...should i get a 2nd pair for this? I love the V1s and dont wanna mess them up. Maybe ill get lucky and receive V2 to test and then i can mod them later


You *should *definitely try to avoid touching the BA at all if you can help it, but in all honestly I had to scrape away at the BAs of the pair in that picture quite a bit as there was glue all over the BA nozzle from having the screens glued to them.  They still work fine.   As long as you don't punch through the shell, knock off the nozzle, or shove a pin down the nozzle (which would certainly damage them) they're reasonably durable.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Oct 29, 2017)

@RomStar The B100 is an excellent single BA. Bloat refers to bass quality. It's faster and more accurate on the B100, you just lose out on the weight and extension the ZS5 has due to its DD drivers. B100 is more natural, particularly in the mid-range. Also more forgiving in the treble, though still bright. B150 would be better for treble sensitive chums. The B100 cost around 69-79 when it first came out and that was fair for the performance. It's current 49 usd price is crazy for the performance.


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> I've been going back through the thread looking at different topics and I'm a bit confused about one of the mods proposed. The KZ5 mode where you put a small piece of tape on the vent on the facing your ear side of the earphone. Now on a standard loudspeaker with an enclosure adding a hole or port allows soundwaves from the back of the speaker to escape the box and increase the volume of sound produced. The size of the hole and possible accompanying tube length changes which frequency is increased, hence the phrase used with speakers that utilize this design of tuned port or tuned bass. This is straightforward physics and I understand that. What confuses me is the tape mod is supposed to do the opposite of what I expect. That is increase bass. What am I missing here? Obviously if folks say more bass and even measure it then it is happening. But I'd have guessed that closing off a port would decrease the level.


I can tell you precisely nothing about the acoustics involved, but I've often seen it repeated that sealing the back volume of an IEM DD does as you described (the side vents in the ZS5), while sealing the front volume (the inner vent) does the opposite.


----------



## VinceHill24

bsoplinger said:


> I've been going back through the thread looking at different topics and I'm a bit confused about one of the mods proposed. The KZ5 mode where you put a small piece of tape on the vent on the facing your ear side of the earphone. Now on a standard loudspeaker with an enclosure adding a hole or port allows soundwaves from the back of the speaker to escape the box and increase the volume of sound produced. The size of the hole and possible accompanying tube length changes which frequency is increased, hence the phrase used with speakers that utilize this design of tuned port or tuned bass. This is straightforward physics and I understand that. What confuses me is the tape mod is supposed to do the opposite of what I expect. That is increase bass. What am I missing here? Obviously if folks say more bass and even measure it then it is happening. But I'd have guessed that closing off a port would decrease the level.


A full sized speaker works differently to an IEM. The hole or port in the speaker enclosure can be compared to the back vent / port in an IEM. The front vent of an IEM has a totally opposite function instead. As mentioned by @vector84 sealing the front vent that facing the ear canal will increase the bass quantity of the iem whilst also increase the pressure in the region between the driver's diaphragm to our ear canal. That leads to a common side effects where driver is more likely to be flexed. This applies to other IEMs such as the Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD as well with front facing vent.


----------



## Jed1998

How does the kz zs6 compare to something like audio technica ath ls 50?


----------



## HiFiChris

RomStar said:


> wow im very surprised, does anyone own Brainwavz b100 (single BA drivers) here? Someone in an audio forum said the b100s are simply superior to the Zs6/Zs5's. Apparently its more natural and not as bloated (Whatever bloated means).
> 
> They link to what i presume is @HiFiChris's website (german site i think), and the b100 is supposedly the better under $50 iem. I actually own the Sennheiser Momentum in-ear and i think the Zs5's and Zs6's are simply better. They have simply better instrumental separation and the bass is deeper. The senns are not bad and easily takes build quality imo, but in terms of sound reproduction and mids, the Kzs are a clear winner for me
> 
> ...



My site is actually bilingual. Well, at least the reviews are - some are in English, some in German and some are written in both languages. Before merging some of the posts and publishing them on the Kopfhoerer-Lounge, my English reviews were published here: TheAudioExpert.blogspot.com

Yes, I've got the B100 along with the ZS5 v1 and ZS6. It's tuned quite a bit differently to be seriously compared to the KZ IEMs. Overall I'd see the Brainwavz somewhat ahead in terms of technical performance while the KZ IEMs might have the larger soundstage.
But in the end it's the personal sound and sound signature preference that matters most.


----------



## RomStar (Oct 29, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> My site is actually bilingual. Well, at least the reviews are - some are in English, some in German and some are written in both languages. Before merging some of the posts and publishing them on the Kopfhoerer-Lounge, my English reviews were published here: TheAudioExpert.blogspot.com
> 
> Yes, I've got the B100 along with the ZS5 v1 and ZS6. It's tuned quite a bit differently to be seriously compared to the KZ IEMs. Overall I'd see the Brainwavz somewhat ahead in terms of technical performance while the KZ IEMs might have the larger soundstage.
> But in the end it's the personal sound and sound signature preference that matters most.


Actually i have been to youre site a lot of times. I never truly knew that youre the same chris haha. I use the google translate tab and id say about 80% of the translation is pretty good. Finally, nice meeting you ^^

Now, since i have not personally heard the b100 myself i dont know how it sounds. But since ive read youre reviews i fully trust you tho. I know sound is very subjective, so i dont ask silly questions like is A>B? Unless that can be applied to very similar ear buds and their components. Now in your'e opinion, if you had to, how would you describe and compare the two? And is it worth buying the b100s if i own the kz's? For reference i listen to a lot of Edm, rap and pop (usually fast beats in tracks, but i appreciate all genre)

Cheers meeting you tho, have a good day/night



B9Scrambler said:


> @RomStar The B100 is an excellent single BA. Bloat refers to bass quality. It's faster and more accurate on the B100, you just lose out on the weight and extension the ZS5 has due to its DD drivers. B100 is more natural, particularly in the mid-range. Also more forgiving in the treble, though still bright. B150 would be better for treble sensitive chums. The B100 cost around 69-79 when it first came out and that was fair for the performance. It's current 49 usd price is crazy for the performance.


 
Thanks again for clearing that up!
Thats why i love head-fi, you always end up learning so much and people are very helpful here.

Now i am not particularly treble sensitive, infact i was actually fine with day1 zs5 but i deff noticed the treble spike compared to my other iems. After some burn-in, i must say the treble does tame and i think i hear more pronounced bass. Im still using silicone tips and for my ear its perfect now (after burn in). I did order some New bee foam tips tho, cuz for the love of god i cant spend $33 on comply...id rather get more iems with that money 

Now i trust youre assessment a lot, i read youre other posts, what iem do you think is exceptionally good for around $50 or under (maybe a bit more?). Im just listing all my options for the upcoming 11.11 sale 



vector84 said:


> You *should *definitely try to avoid touching the BA at all if you can help it, but in all honestly I had to scrape away at the BAs of the pair in that picture quite a bit as there was glue all over the BA nozzle from having the screens glued to them. They still work fine.  As long as you don't punch through the shell, knock off the nozzle, or shove a pin down the nozzle (which would certainly damage them) they're reasonably durable.



Note taken for sure, i decided i will experiment on the zs6 or zs5 i order during 11.11

Also, i tried the tape mod, and holy crap it works. Im not fully sure what driver flex is, but i dont think i experienced it in my 1 hour listening period. I noticed the sub bass becoming more present and it sounds more full now. Idk if im gonna keep that mod, because the bass was enough for me without them, but deff a good mod for people who struggle to get a proper seal on their kz zs5/zs6


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## MD Alimur Rahman

Hi guys, I really want to improve the bass for my Zs5 V1..please share the tape mod with pic and procedure..
I'll be glad if you suggest other easiest mod to improve zs5 bass response with pic..
thanks in advance


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## HungryPanda (Oct 29, 2017)

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> Hi guys, I really want to improve the bass for my Zs5 V1..please share the tape mod with pic and procedure..
> I'll be glad if you suggest other easiest mod to improve zs5 bass response with pic..
> thanks in advance



Look at the top of this page.......... https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1621#post-13815250


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## maxxevv

vector84 said:


> Did you mean android system EQ? Or does latest version of Viper4Android has no toggle to enable EQ? I haven't used it in a while.  I meant enable EQ in V4A (which should disable the stock EQ and fix the problem, or at least it does on my tablet).
> 
> And if it's an Android EQ issue, I don't think more power will really help - though it might help you reach your desired volume without distortion, I don't think that's really the issue.
> 
> As for the tape mod: (ignore the removed screen, just too lazy to get a better model)



The answer is already posted above by vector84.


----------



## B9Scrambler

RomStar said:


> Thanks again for clearing that up!
> Thats why i love head-fi, you always end up learning so much and people are very helpful here.
> 
> Now i am not particularly treble sensitive, infact i was actually fine with day1 zs5 but i deff noticed the treble spike compared to my other iems. After some burn-in, i must say the treble does tame and i think i hear more pronounced bass. Im still using silicone tips and for my ear its perfect now (after burn in). I did order some New bee foam tips tho, cuz for the love of god i cant spend $33 on comply...id rather get more iems with that money
> ...



Yeah, this can be a pretty awesome place with a very supportive community. How else would we drain our wallets so quickly?  Some of my other favs under 50 are the TinAudio T2, AK Audio Light T2, JVC HA-FXH30, and the SOMiC V4. There are reviews of all four on my site.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

maxxevv said:


> The answer is already posted above by vector84.


just covering the small hole with a tape will do the work right??
will give a try now..thanks


----------



## HiFiChris

RomStar said:


> Actually i have been to youre site a lot of times. I never truly knew that youre the same chris haha. I use the google translate tab and id say about 80% of the translation is pretty good. Finally, nice meeting you ^^



 



> Now, since i have not personally heard the b100 myself i dont know how it sounds. But since ive read youre reviews i fully trust you tho. I know sound is very subjective, so i dont ask silly questions like is A>B? Unless that can be applied to very similar ear buds and their components. Now in your'e opinion, if you had to, how would you describe and compare the two? And is it worth buying the b100s if i own the kz's? For reference i listen to a lot of Edm, rap and pop (usually fast beats in tracks, but i appreciate all genre)



All impressions based on listening to the IEMs driven by low impedance (< 1 Ohm ZOut) sources.

B100 = some midbass and fundamental range/lower mids elevation (moderate warmth), smooth lower and middle treble, quite neutral upper treble, some sub-bass roll-off (not that critical but the midbass is stronger than the sub-bass).

The ZS5 v1 and ZS6 are more sub-bass focused and have got less warmth in the lower midrange. Generally speaking of the bass, the two are definitely bassier than the more smoothness and balance-oriented Brainwavz, especially in the sub-bass (in the lows, they're mainly sub-bass-driven IEMs). Both KZ IEMs are a good bit brighter and more vibrant in the upper mids - the ZS5 v1 to the extent of being somewhat unnatural, hollow and recessed, whereas the ZS6 has got a better balanced (albeit still clarity-oriented) upper midrange. The ZS5 v1 is brighter and more sparkling in the upper highs compared to the B100 while the ZS6... well, I guess the last couple dozen pages should give you a good impression about its elevation that is definitely controversial but can be fixed rather easily by either adding impedance, using an EQ, dampening the sound output, using foam tips etc.

The B100 has got the quicker, tighter and better controlled bass response while the KZs' lows are undeniably softer and slower in comparison, which is definitely not untypical for the dynamic woofer and bass quantity. Due to their tuning and likely also because of their vented design, the KZ IEMs appear a bit more open and spacious sounding - while the B100 is definitely no slouch in this category for a single-BA IEM, its spatial presentation feels smaller while scoring when it comes to spatial precision (separation and stuff). Coherency appears to be better with the B100.
Midrange and treble resolution - not really that much of a big difference in absolute quantity, comes more down to the different tuning. Long story short, I see the B100 as the superior IEM in the mids when it comes to detail retrieval whereas the KZ IEMs, even when EQ'd down, have probably got a slight advantage when it comes to separation in the highs.


Imo as long as vocals aren't the #1 priority, the ZS5 vs is more fun for casually listening to "modern" and electronic stuff, whereas the ZS6 has got the better-made midrange tuning that is better suitable for stuff with more serious vocal focus and a fun companion when the somewhat overdone treble spike is reduced.


My very personal sonic preference? B100 - more coherency, higher bass speed and control, more mature and natural tuning. The KZ IEMs look cooler though, and their silver upgrade cable is nicely flexible and premium (polarity (phase) and sides might be swapped though - cable QC doesn't seem to have a high priority at all), which however doesn't change the fact that I personally definitely prefer the tuning and sound of the B100.

Imo the ZS5 v1 or modified ZS6 might be better suitable for pop, EDM and rap, but this clearly comes down to personal preference as well (just for the record, I absolutely love listening to EDM and rap with the really flat and mostly diffuse-field neutral Etymotic ER-4S/SR), so this is definitely nothing that could be generalised. What other headphones/IEMs have you owned/auditioned so far and what did you/didn't you like about them?


----------



## kokakolia

I think that the ZSE are growing on me. They sound great with most genres of music except for rock. I think that they're tuned for ambient and pop genres. The extra warmth is yummy. They just can't handle drums very well, bass guitar is obnoxiously loud too. God forbid you listen to rock with ZSEs...

Provided your music isn't overly complex and is mixed well, the ZSEs will shine. 

I suppose I was too harsh. My bad for only testing them with one genre of music. 

Yeah, they're well worth the $11 (including the New Bee foam tips). It still boggles my mind why the ZSEs have two drivers? One is enough. Seriously. What is KZ trying to do?


----------



## wastan

Here's something odd. I have a ZS5 v1 and just got my hands on a ZS6 and a second ZS5. I plugged on the ZS6 and, as expected, there was that little spike of brightness everyone is trying to tone down. Then I plug in the New ZS5 and the same spike is there. OK I think, this is a v2. I do an A/B comparison for both the new IEMs with my v1. Same source, same tips, same cable. Confirms that both the new ones have the spike that my v1 does not. Finally I pull the screen off the new ZS5 and there's only one BA in the barrel. It's also a v1! Is something besides BA placement going on or is my hearing just that idiosyncratic?


----------



## vector84 (Oct 29, 2017)

wastan said:


> Here's something odd. I have a ZS5 v1 and just got my hands on a ZS6 and a second ZS5. I plugged on the ZS6 and, as expected, there was that little spike of brightness everyone is trying to tone down. Then I plug in the New ZS5 and the same spike is there. OK I think, this is a v2. I do an A/B comparison for both the new IEMs with my v1. Same source, same tips, same cable. Confirms that both the new ones have the spike that my v1 does not. Finally I pull the screen off the new ZS5 and there's only one BA in the barrel. It's also a v1! Is something besides BA placement going on or is my hearing just that idiosyncratic?


I've been reticent to comment about this much, because I haven't nailed it down precisely and I don't want to incite baseless speculation, but I mentioned a while back that I was seeing some weird variances in KZ BAs, almost like there's two different batches or something.

I never got around to testing it in depth, but things I noticed when I was messing with it was the differences seemed to be made more apparent by Viber mod and screen contact, but I didn't document how exactly, nor did I finish ruling out possible sources of error.


----------



## Keller2

Any news of the ZSR / IEM-That's-Out-In-November?


----------



## kokakolia

Does anyone else have the problem with foam tips constantly falling out of the ear? They don't seem to fit easily. And when they're "in" they're not really "in". I roll them and everything. I am using New Bees. Currently, I'm switching to silicone tips and I find them so much more comfortable and convenient. The sound doesn't seem to change much between silicone New Bees and foam New Bees. 

Update on the ZSE: Well, I'm slowly growing out of them. I just listened to some STRFKR and the bass line just bleeds into the mix and the higher notes have a bit of an abrasive "zing!". It's hard to describe. Yeah, it's kind of a rock album. But it's hard for me to listen to anything else. 



How am I supposed to enjoy an earphone that makes most of my music sound...bad (for lack of a better word)!? 

I am just gonna rant on the ZSE until my ZS5 (V2?) arrives. Since I'm anticipating disappointment (I read that people are complaining about sharp treble), I pulled the trigger on some KEF M100 earbuds (for $80, probably the equivalent of all of my KZ purchases combined). I just didn't want to buy another Marshall Mode to replace the lost ones, because although they sounded perfect, they kinda hurt my ears because of their awkward shape. 

I might get some flak for this, but being on this "KZ impressions" thread is kinda like putting horse blinders on my face. There are so many great earbuds out there under $100, many of which are older models that used to sell over $100 from KEF, Marshall, Paradigm... And yet, there seems to be so much hype surrounding these budget "Chi-Fi" IEMs. To me, there's little difference between a $20 earbud and a $100 one when it comes to price. If I like them, I'll use them every day over the course of a year...or several if I don't lose them. So the cost in the long run is relatively low. Especially, if you work really long hours like me. I feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot to save a few extra dollars when buying a $20 earbud over a $50~$100 one. 

I have a product in mind and I inevitably compromise, get disappointed and buy another model (hoping this time it will be "just right"). And the cycle continues. And I end up spending close to $60 that way. 

I don't feel like I'm asking for too much. I just want a slightly warm, relaxed sound signature with some soundstage...and good fit! That's really important too. The ZSE ticked a lot of boxes. But it sounds kinda muddy and weird. If KZ made a ZSE that didn't sound muddy and had an integrated shirt clip in the mic (like the Marshall Mode), I'd easily fork out $50 for it. I just can't imagine the sheer amount of corners that had to be cut to make it $7. I don't understand why KZ's doing that?  

I also see that folks here are modding their KZs with aftermarket tips and cables. This stuff adds up! Eventually, your $25 KZ costs closer to $40. And $50 buys you something awesome. There's nothing wrong with that though. You're taking something good and improving it. It's just that it feels like work. As a consumer, I expect to buy a product that just works straight out of the box. No fumbling required. Buying a KZ earphone is a bit like buying a cupcake at a discount price because there's a fingernail on it. If you take some time to scrape the fingernail off the icing, you got yourself a delicious treat at a bargain price!


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## Superluc (Oct 29, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> If KZ made a ZSE that didn't sound muddy and had an integrated shirt clip in the mic (like the Marshall Mode), I'd easily fork out $50 for it.


If i remind correctly, the IEM from they copy the design for the ZSE cost around 100$, but i don't recall the name... anyone remember them ?


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## Superluc (Oct 29, 2017)

Found them: Phiaton MS 300 BA, dual driver, hybrid. Cost less at the moment, around 60$

https://www.amazon.com/Phiaton-MS300BABLACK-PHIATON-Headphone/dp/B01AIRFORI


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## wastan (Oct 29, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> I might get some flak for this, but being on this "KZ impressions" thread is kinda like putting horse blinders on my face. There are so many great earbuds out there under $100, many of which are older models that used to sell over $100 from KEF, Marshall, Paradigm... And yet, there seems to be so much hype surrounding these budget "Chi-Fi"



Have you seen this thread?: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/


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## kokakolia (Oct 29, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Found them: Phiaton MS 300 BA, dual driver, hybrid. Cost less at the moment, around 60$
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Phiaton-MS300BABLACK-PHIATON-Headphone/dp/B01AIRFORI



Excellent!

ARG! They're $180 in Canada!


----------



## groucho69

kokakolia said:


> Does anyone else have the problem with foam tips constantly falling out of the ear? They don't seem to fit easily. And when they're "in" they're not really "in". I roll them and everything. I am using New Bees. Currently, I'm switching to silicone tips and I find them so much more comfortable and convenient. The sound doesn't seem to change much between silicone New Bees and foam New Bees.
> 
> Update on the ZSE: Well, I'm slowly growing out of them. I just listened to some STRFKR and the bass line just bleeds into the mix and the higher notes have a bit of an abrasive "zing!". It's hard to describe. Yeah, it's kind of a rock album. But it's hard for me to listen to anything else.
> 
> ...




Don't be hating on finger nails.


----------



## Keller2

Superluc said:


> Found them: Phiaton MS 300 BA, dual driver, hybrid. Cost less at the moment, around 60$
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Phiaton-MS300BABLACK-PHIATON-Headphone/dp/B01AIRFORI


Isn't that a ZSE with a noodly cable and 10x markup?


----------



## Superluc

Keller2 said:


> Isn't that a ZSE with a noodly cable and 10x markup?


It's an IEM awarded by Red Dot in the 2016. http://phiaton.com/product/ms-300-ba/


----------



## Keller2

Superluc said:


> It's an IEM awarded by Red Dot in the 2016. http://phiaton.com/product/ms-300-ba/


Haha wow I sure as heck shouldn't be surprised at the ZSE deisgn being lifted aswell.
I got bamboozled.


----------



## RomStar

HiFiChris said:


> All impressions based on listening to the IEMs driven by low impedance (< 1 Ohm ZOut) sources.
> 
> B100 = some midbass and fundamental range/lower mids elevation (moderate warmth), smooth lower and middle treble, quite neutral upper treble, some sub-bass roll-off (not that critical but the midbass is stronger than the sub-bass).
> 
> ...



Once again, amazing reply and spot on. After hearing this, I might get a pair of B 100 myself, but from you're reviews I think b200 is where the games at (even though that's 150$)

I agree that sound can be very subjective and I'm quite happy with the zs5 and their performance on quick tracks like edm and pop. I think I would love the brainwavz b - series lineup as well, due to their natural tonality (for Jaz of some mellow music I listen to often)

I also find it very interesting how you evaluate the apple ear pods. Tbh almost everyone just hate them because they are made by Apple. Me personally tho, I hold no opinion. I don't use earbuds at all, and the shape of the apple pods make my ears hurt, but they aren't bad at all. I just prefer iems over earbuds in general

I was reading you're yin yooo zw and pennon bs1 review, and I was surprised you didn't compare them much with the monks. Maybe I was thinking I should give the monks a try since they are dirt cheap, but dunno if the new monks+ are worth it over the older ones. 

Cheers meeting you again, I'm trying to make a list of good iems under 50 and maybe 1 over 100. Wanna see what I can buy during the 11.11 sales, any recommendations you have? Any iems you think are amazing at the 50 range you would recommend?  


B9Scrambler said:


> Yeah, this can be a pretty awesome place with a very supportive community. How else would we drain our wallets so quickly?  Some of my other favs under 50 are the TinAudio T2, AK Audio Light T2, JVC HA-FXH30, and the SOMiC V4. There are reviews of all four on my site.


 Actually I can't agree more haha, my wallets groaning already damn

Thanks for the suggestion honestly, love that you have the tin2 on that list. I've heard some amazing things about them, and maybe I'll bite the bullet and just get it. Somics look very cool as well, but I have no idea what the Light T2s are, lemme look them up  (what's you're favorite of the bunch tho?)


----------



## Taters00

Cracked open my ZS3 today to see what was inside... kind of successful but wrecked the tubing in the process. Does anyone know where I can get some replacement tubing (tbh it looks a lot like heat shrink tubing). Anyways, just wanted to post some pics in case anyone else was interested in what ZS3 guts look like. Also some shots of the driver and ruler for comparison.


----------



## c4rb0n

Just recently ordered my KZ complys on aliexpress on AK Audio store. Im hoping they're good haha. Its pretty darn cheap 4 pairs for 2.73$ So i bought 8 pairs. They sell pretty much less than NiceHCK's prices and im hoping my order will arrive after 2 to 3 weeks. Is this store on ali legit btw?


----------



## vector84

Taters00 said:


> Cracked open my ZS3 today to see what was inside... kind of successful but wrecked the tubing in the process. Does anyone know where I can get some replacement tubing (tbh it looks a lot like heat shrink tubing). Anyways, just wanted to post some pics in case anyone else was interested in what ZS3 guts look like. Also some shots of the driver and ruler for comparison.


I believe it was @Slater who pointed out that it is indeed just some heat shrink tubing.  Best of luck with the repair.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 29, 2017)

So my ZS5 V2 arrived from Gearbest about a week ago.
I was actually hoping I'd get a V.2 and sadly I was rather disappointed by the insane amount of sibilance they had.

I tried a variety of non destructive foam mods based on a few mods I've seen on here ( @Slater ), including even making my own brass round foam punch tube that allows me to create a variety of foam filters (see attached pics).
However, no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't get rid of it regardless of burn-in time, source, EQ, Foam tips, or Foam Mods...

So in the end; I ended up removing one of the balanced armatures from EACH earphone..





I then replaced the metal screens with my own little custom foam discs.





The verdict:
It sounds AMAZING!
The high treble (to my ears) is just right now.
No more sibilance..
I can now hear the "brass" in the cymbals and Hi-Hats verses that horrible SSsSsSsCCccHhHhtTttT!!! that was making me insane after about a 1/2 hour (depending on the song of course) of listening.

Another benefit of removing 1 BA from each earphone is, I opened up the nozzle space, so they seem to have improved in other ways.. More bass, better soundstage, less congested?
Could just be psychological effects because I spent a few hours working on them, so I'll eventually need to get another ZS5 V.2 to compare.
But, so far I'm loving my 1 Ba + 2 DD ZS5 mutants! 

I also have the ZS6 on order from Gearbest, but I might not be so destructive with my modding on the ZS6..
I made myself a little bag full of these foam filters so I can use them on other earphones that are a bit too sibilant so perhaps I'll just use them on the ZS6 along with foam tips.

This mod was not easy, so please do not attempt it, unless you are -really comfortable- with these types of things...
The BAs are about the size of a grain of rice!





Anyway, if anyone has any questions about how I did this, I'll be glad to answer as best as I can.


----------



## vector84

AudioObsession said:


> So in the end; I ended up removing one of the balanced armatures from EACH earphone..


Awesome!  Not just a mysterious rumor anymore 

Not sure I'll ever find the motivation to try this personally but I'd bet a few people around here would be quite interested to know a bit more about how you managed this.


----------



## AudioObsession

vector84 said:


> Not sure I'll ever find the motivation to try this personally but I'd bet a few people around here would be quite interested to know a bit more about how you managed this.



It was a pretty terrifying surgery to be perfectly honest, but I'm glad I did it.. 
I don't know if I'll do the same to my ZS6 when it arrives though.. So I'm hoping that my foam discs under the metal screens, along with some foam tips, and maybe a little EQ will do the trick.. We shall see.


----------



## vector84

AudioObsession said:


> It was a pretty terrifying surgery to be perfectly honest, but I'm glad I did it..
> I don't know if I'll do the same to my ZS6 when it arrives though.. So I'm hoping that my foam discs under the metal screens, along with some foam tips, and maybe a little EQ will do the trick.. We shall see.


Might want to consider adding a series resistance based attenuator to your bag of tricks for the ZS6 too 

Also if you don't mind checking at some point, I'm curious how much did removing a BA change their resistance?
(would love to know impedance too but that's asking a bit much)


----------



## hakuzen

AudioObsession said:


> So my ZS5 V2 arrived from Gearbest about a week ago.
> I was actually hoping I'd get a V.2 and sadly I was rather disappointed by the insane amount of sibilance they had.
> 
> I tried a variety of non destructive foam mods based on a few mods I've seen on here ( @Slater ), including even making my own brass round foam punch tube that allows me to create a variety of foam filters (see attached pics).
> ...


wow, terrific surgery, great job!
i've ordered a new zs5 at last, to measure a v2 (frequency response + impedance), i hope.
thanks to impedance measurement, we'll know if a crossover is added to ZS5 v2.
but if you have a multimeter around, would you please try to measure ZS5 v2 DC resistance? (one lead to left -top part- or right -center part-, one lead to ground -bottom part- of the 3.5mm jack). this also would confirm if it has a crossover.
v1 measured 4.5ohm this way. if it had a crossover, measurement should be around 14.2ohm (like ZS6).

if we find v2 has not a crossover, v2 would be a lemon compared to v1 or ZS6: ZS6's harsh treble + extreme low impedance issues of zs5 v1.



AudioObsession said:


> It was a pretty terrifying surgery to be perfectly honest, but I'm glad I did it..
> I don't know if I'll do the same to my ZS6 when it arrives though.. So I'm hoping that my foam discs under the metal screens, along with some foam tips, and maybe a little EQ will do the trick.. We shall see.


a little EQ will do the trick. for example, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1617#post-13813287


----------



## hakuzen

vector84 said:


> Also if you don't mind checking at some point, I'm curious how much did removing a BA change their resistance?
> (would love to know impedance too but that's asking a bit much)


+1.
and DC resistance of the removed BA, by using a multimeter, would also be interesting (we could know rough dynamic drivers resistance with that info).
i guess the 4 drivers in ZS5 are in parallel, no crossover. for instance, if dynamic drivers were 30ohm, and BAs are 14 ohm (which are realistic values), total DC Resistance would be 4.77ohm (close to 4.5ohm).


----------



## AudioObsession

vector84 said:


> Might want to consider adding a series resistance based attenuator to your bag of tricks for the ZS6 too
> 
> Also if you don't mind checking at some point, I'm curious how much did removing a BA change their resistance?
> (would love to know impedance too but that's asking a bit much)



I've been reading about the resistance attenuators on here and I am interested for sure...

As far as the readings I get with my Ohm Meter:
Set @ 200 Ohms, I get: 14.7 between the tip & Sleeve  and  14.6 between the Ring and Sleeve..
Not that this matters; but I also get 28.5 between the tip and ring..


----------



## djmakemynight

AudioObsession said:


> It was a pretty terrifying surgery to be perfectly honest, but I'm glad I did it..
> I don't know if I'll do the same to my ZS6 when it arrives though.. So I'm hoping that my foam discs under the metal screens, along with some foam tips, and maybe a little EQ will do the trick.. We shall see.



Great job! Nice to actually know that KZ got their own BA drivers. Can't wait to see what more new stuff they have for us.


----------



## AudioObsession

hakuzen said:


> measurement should be around 14.2ohm (like ZS6).


Thanks! I have really been enjoying all your measurements on the ZS6, ZS5 V.1 and am looking VERY forward to your findings on the V.2!
Thank you so much for all that information.. Very interesting and helpful... 

So, I measured my modded ZS5 and it is very close to what you mentioned: 14.7 on one and 14.6 on the other.. I would imagine since I removed one BA from each that it would change resistance a bit?

On a side note: these sound great on 3 different sources.. My Ibasso DX50 (my main DAP) my Computer, and a generic old  $25 no name mini DAP that I have laying around.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 30, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> +1.
> and DC resistance of the removed BA, by using a multimeter, would also be interesting (we could know rough dynamic drivers resistance with that info).
> i guess the 4 drivers in ZS5 are in parallel, no crossover. for instance, if dynamic drivers were 30ohm, and BAs are 14 ohm (which are realistic values), total DC Resistance would be 4.77ohm (close to 4.5ohm).



That was a bit harder to do because they are about the size of a grain of rice, but I was able to do it on one of the BAs and it read @
12.8 Ohms.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 30, 2017)

djmakemynight said:


> Great job! Nice to actually know that KZ got their own BA drivers. Can't wait to see what more new stuff they have for us.



It's funny, but I can't even see the writing on those BAs because they are so darn small!
I mean, even under a fairly powerful magnifying glass I still cant see anything.. But in the super-macro view on my camera, I clearly read the KZ logo and the numbers:30095.. So I guess it is true that they make their own BA's...


----------



## vector84

@AudioObsession, @hakuzen,

Those numbers strongly suggest the v2 does indeed have a crossover, unless I'm missing something?

If they were just in parallel like the v1, ripping out that BA would've taken it to around 7.5, I think?


----------



## djmakemynight (Oct 30, 2017)

vector84 said:


> @AudioObsession, @hakuzen,
> 
> Those numbers strongly suggest the v2 does indeed have a crossover, unless I'm missing something?
> 
> If they were just in parallel like the v1, ripping out that BA would've taken it to around 7.5, I think?



I believe there was a picture somewhere earlier in this thread that showed the guts of the ZS6 and it was agreed there was a crossover which the drivers were wired to.

I might have remembered wrongly so please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I will try to see if I can dig up the picture.

Edit: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1433#post-13721898


----------



## djmakemynight

AudioObsession said:


> It's funny, but I can't even see that writing on those BAs because that are so darn small!
> I mean, even under a fairly powerful magnifying glass I still cant see anything.. But in the super-macro view on my camera, I clearly read the KZ logo and the numbers:30095.. So I guess it is true that they make their own BA's...



Yeah, that is an awesome camera you got there! Thanks for sharing the mod. It is always fun to see people mod stuff even though my heart is too weak to do it myself.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 30, 2017)

vector84 said:


> @AudioObsession, @hakuzen,
> 
> Those numbers strongly suggest the v2 does indeed have a crossover, unless I'm missing something?
> 
> If they were just in parallel like the v1, ripping out that BA would've taken it to around 7.5, I think?



I would think so.. But that said; I forgot to measure them before I removed the BAs so I have no idea what they were before I violated them.. 

In all honesty, I never wanted to remove the BA's I just couldn't get them to sound good no matter what mod I tried..
I even tried pushing the BA's way down into the nozzle and that's when I discovered they were glued with rubber cement to the sides of the nozzles..
After I pushed one of the BAs too far inside the nozzle, I panicked because it was just rattling around in there.. 
So I decided to firmly (but carefully!!) remove the nozzle, unfortunately one of the BA's remained glued to the sides of the nozzle and so the wires broke on the BA when I removed the nozzle..
I thought I had ended them!
So, I figured I'd just cut the remaining wires from the removed BA so they wouldn't short on anything...
And when I put it together and plugged it in; it worked beautifully!

So I decided to do it to the other one (the right side)..

I decided to seat the remaining BAs back against the edge of the nozzles using 3M contact cement...  I also put them back in a little  deeper then factory spec, so I could get one or 2 of my micro foam discs on top of the BA in case I needed added sibilance filtering..
It was perfect!
I rarely find myself even using my EQ now.

Anyway sorry for the looong reply, I just wanted to give a few more details...


----------



## AudioObsession

djmakemynight said:


> I will try to see if I can dig up the picture.
> 
> Edit: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1433#post-13721898


 You know, I did remove the back plate on the left-side of my ZS5 V.2 but I cant remember if I could see the SMT style crossover in there or not..
Looking at that green ZS6 it does look very similar to the guts of my ZS5 V.2..
What if they both have the same guts with only different shells??? 

Unfortunately I super-glued the plate back on so I don't want to open it up again but maybe @hakuzen will be willing to do some "exploratory surgery" when he get's his ZS5 v.2??


----------



## HiFiChris

RomStar said:


> Once again, amazing reply and spot on. After hearing this, I might get a pair of B 100 myself, but from you're reviews I think b200 is where the games at (even though that's 150$)
> 
> I agree that sound can be very subjective and I'm quite happy with the zs5 and their performance on quick tracks like edm and pop. I think I would love the brainwavz b - series lineup as well, due to their natural tonality (for Jaz of some mellow music I listen to often)
> 
> ...



Yeah, the B200 is kind of the logical step up from the B100 - and still cheap given its technical abilities. Don't know if the updated version with removable cables differs from the older one in terms of sound (maybe due to a slightly different acoustic enclosure), but definitely and easily worth the money.

- - -

If you get the ZS5 or ZS6 (whose metal shells are by the way excellent when it comes to build and finish), definitely think about investing in one of the cheap KZ upgrade cables since the stock mic cable is more or less garbage (not really flexible and stuff).

- - -

Yep, I don't hate the EarPods at all. And I'm neither an Apple fanboy nor hater. For their price and with that excellent remote control unit, the EarPods are definitely not a bad choice at $30. Certainly not perfect though with their lower treble/upper midrange spike and there are better Chi-Fi options when it comes to earbuds solely for listening to music, but for casual commuting or sports, the EarPods are not a bad deal. And they fit comfortably, too.

The reason why I don't really compare most earbuds with the Monk + earbuds is because they are honestly not all that great. Good deal for $5 and with a quite tight bass and really nice build quality, however their sound is nothing special. Tuning is not that dissimilar from the EarPods, however the Monk + earbuds are on a lower level when it comes to technical performance. By the way, some time after purchasing the Monk + earbuds, I gave them a full review (written in German but with a Google Translate widget option below the status bar). You can check it out here [http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2016/05/VE-MonkPlus.html] if you want.

- - -

The Earmax ER580 are a cheap single-BA option for a fairly neutral, UE600-like sound with good performance (however with a roll-off towards the sub-bass that is however more than acceptable given the low price), the Fostex TE-02 and its Pioneer twin are great budget options for neutral and technically very capable dynamic driver IEMs, and last but not least the Fidue A65 is a nicely balanced (but can also be bassy, depending on how much its vent is covered by your ears) in-ear that is heading into the darker direction, with a small but precise soundstage.


----------



## young59

I do have the ZS5 v2 and a cheap multimeter I can try to provide the dc resistance but somebody has to tell me what to measure.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> I do have the ZS5 v2 and a cheap multimeter I can try to provide the dc resistance but somebody has to tell me what to measure.





hakuzen said:


> (one lead to left -top part- or right -center part-, one lead to ground -bottom part- of the 3.5mm jack). this also would confirm if it has a crossover.
> v1 measured 4.5ohm this way. if it had a crossover, measurement should be around 14.2ohm (like ZS6).


Unless something really strange is going on, it will probably be around 14.
Left or Right to Ground: (mic'd cables should be CTIA)







And unless the ZS5v2's impedance differs significantly from the ZS6, adding resistance might be an option as per the ZS6 ??


----------



## djmakemynight

AudioObsession said:


> You know, I did remove the back plate on the left-side of my ZS5 V.2 but I cant remember if I could see the SMT style crossover in there or not..
> Looking at that green ZS6 it does look very similar to the guts of my ZS5 V.2..
> What if they both have the same guts with only different shells???
> 
> Unfortunately I super-glued the plate back on so I don't want to open it up again but maybe @hakuzen will be willing to do some "exploratory surgery" when he get's his ZS5 v.2??



AFAIK, the conclusion was that there is no crossover in the ZS5, at least for the version 1 with only 1 BA in the nozzle. Only the ZS6 is known to have it at this point.


----------



## young59

Well I got interesting results my multimeter wires have a resistance of 1 ohm so subtract those from the calculation.But the interesting part is *Left and right channel showing diffrent resistance.* Probably means something wrong with my pair.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Well I got interesting results my multimeter wires have a resistance of 1 ohm so subtract those from the calculation.But the interesting part is *Left and right channel showing diffrent resistance.* Probably means something wrong with my pair.


If you hear a significant channel imbalance, there might be something wrong, otherwise they might just be on either end of tolerances.

Sure looks like there's a good chance the ZS5v2 and ZS6 are pretty much the same internals in different shells ?


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> If you hear a significant channel imbalance, there might be something wrong, otherwise they might just be on either end of tolerances.
> 
> Sure looks like there's a good chance the ZS5v2 and ZS6 are pretty much the same internals in different shells ?


So does that mean I don't have to spend an entire day researching before buying a dac+amp/amp?

And Can I just add resistance in series instead of making a voltage divider?


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> So does that mean I don't have to spend an entire day researching before buying a dac+amp/amp?
> 
> And Can I just add resistance in series instead of making a voltage divider?


Yup, that's what it should mean unless something very strange is going on that I'm missing.


----------



## young59

vector84 said:


> Yup, that's what it should mean unless something very strange is going on that I'm missing.


Is that a yes for both or just the first question?


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Is that a yes for both or just the first question?


Both (assuming it's the same as the ZS6 implementation), the crossover should present a sane impedance that will still be somewhat current limited, but should generally be fine at sane listening volumes, and it also yields an impedance curve that responds to added resistance with reduced treble.


----------



## young59

Can you recommend a value of resistance to raise the noise floor I don't mind making 2 different adaptor one with high for my phone and one with low for my laptop since my phone is Mi A1 which is supposed to have a dedicated amp capable to drive upto  600 ohm headphones.


----------



## hakuzen

AudioObsession said:


> Thanks! I have really been enjoying all your measurements on the ZS6, ZS5 V.1 and am looking VERY forward to your findings on the V.2!
> Thank you so much for all that information.. Very interesting and helpful...
> 
> So, I measured my modded ZS5 and it is very close to what you mentioned: 14.7 on one and 14.6 on the other.. I would imagine since I removed one BA from each that it would change resistance a bit?
> ...





AudioObsession said:


> That was a bit harder to do because they are about the size of a grain of rice, but I was able to do it on one of the BAs and it read @
> 12.8 Ohms.


thank you very much!! your measurements clarifies a lot about zs5 v2 =))



vector84 said:


> @AudioObsession, @hakuzen,
> 
> Those numbers strongly suggest the v2 does indeed have a crossover, unless I'm missing something?
> 
> If they were just in parallel like the v1, ripping out that BA would've taken it to around 7.5, I think?


yep. if the 2 dynamic drivers were identical, they'd be about 30.3Ω DC resistance each.
BAs are identical, so 12.8Ω each.
not far from my hypothesis.
if they were in parallel like in v1, it should have taken it to 6.9Ω from 4.5Ω, like you say.
so yes, ZS5 v2 HAS GOT a CROSSOVER.
the extreme low impedance of zs5 v1 issue is fixed in v2.



vector84 said:


> Unless something really strange is going on, it will probably be around 14.
> And unless the ZS5v2's impedance differs significantly from the ZS6, adding resistance might be an option as per the ZS6 ??


looking forward to receive and measure the v2 to compare with zs6.
if drivers and crossover are identical, and the tube connecting the DD chambers is the same, only difference would be the shell.
so adding resistance plus the other tweaks we've mentioned would work to tame the highs.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Can you recommend a value of resistance to raise the noise floor I don't mind making 2 different adaptor one with high for my phone and one with low for my laptop since my phone is Mi A1 which is supposed to have a dedicated amp capable to drive upto  600 ohm headphones.


Unless I've just completely failed at the math here, 50 ohms of resistance and 16 ohms of headphone impedance should be generally in the neighborhood of -15dB attenuation, which should quiet all but the noisiest sources, but you might want more resistance than that depending how much you want to reign in the highs.  If your laptop has a high output impedance you might want a smaller value one to keep impedances matched for your sources to maintain the same sound profile.


----------



## hakuzen

in the case of ZS5 v2 sounding very similar to ZS6, the price of ZS5 v2 is fantastic. you only have to eq them a bit, or the other tweaks.
if someone receives a BLUE ZS5 v2 from gearbest, please shout it, indicating if it was mic or non-mic version (thanks! )


----------



## vector84

@hakuzen A few people have reported new white boxes for the ZS5 - since they were never a thing for the v1 that I ever heard of, that might be your best bet for securing a v2?


----------



## hakuzen

vector84 said:


> @hakuzen A few people have reported new white boxes for the ZS5 - since they were never a thing for the v1 that I ever heard of, that might be your best bet for securing a v2?


yup, but did any get white box with blue zs5? i have to re-read the posts..


----------



## vector84

hakuzen said:


> yup, but did any get white box with blue zs5? i have to re-read the posts..


Nope, I think you're right, reports on the white boxes have been for grey thus far.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 30, 2017)

vector84 said:


> If you hear a significant channel imbalance, there might be something wrong, otherwise they might just be on either end of tolerances.
> 
> Sure looks like there's a good chance the ZS5v2 and ZS6 are pretty much the same internals in different shells ?


Yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing.
So we pay $15 to $20 extra for the cool metal shell? Well, I guess I'm glad I got my ZS6 for only $26 then.
If the ZS6 sounds exactly like my pre-modded ZS5V.2, I'm ripping out the extra BA.

All of this makes me really wish I could have heard a ZS5 V.1


----------



## acia

AudioObsession said:


> Yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing.
> So we pay $15 to $20 extra for the cool metal shell? Well, I guess I'm glad I got my ZS6 for only $26 then.
> If the ZS6 sounds exactly like my pre-modded ZS5V.2, I'm ripping out the extra BA.
> 
> All of this makes me really wish I could have heard a ZS5 V.1 now.


where do you grab zs6 for 26 usd??


----------



## vector84

AudioObsession said:


> Yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing.
> So we pay $15 to $20 extra for the cool metal shell? Well, I guess I'm glad I got my ZS6 for only $26 then.
> If the ZS6 sounds exactly like my pre-modded ZS5V.2, I'm ripping out the extra BA.
> 
> All of this makes me really wish I could have heard a ZS5 V.1 now.


Well there was a post elsewhere a couple weeks back claiming to have compared them (a v2 with a BA removed and a v1 - this is what I meant when I mentioned rumors) that claimed they sounded very similar.

Extrapolating from @hakuzen's data, I'm *guessing *it would be reasonable to expect they'd probably sound fairly similar on a low impedance source but with some differences in sound stage.  If that's true, seems like you've managed to get the best of both worlds - reasonable source matching profile with a very similar sound to the v1, though I've not seen any information that would suggest any way to predict how the sound stage might change.


----------



## acia

hakuzen said:


> thank you very much!! your measurements clarifies a lot about zs5 v2 =))
> 
> 
> yep. if the 2 dynamic drivers were identical, they'd be about 30.3Ω DC resistance each.
> ...


ZS5 v2 HAS GOT a CROSSOVER

any picture please?


----------



## AudioObsession

vector84 said:


> Well there was a post elsewhere a couple weeks back claiming to have compared them (a v2 with a BA removed and a v1 - this is what I meant when I mentioned rumors) that claimed they sounded very similar.


So I'm not the only one who has done the removal of one BA per unit mod then?

If you can link me to that post I would LOVE to read it.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 30, 2017)

Extrapolating from @hakuzen's data, I'm *guessing *it would be reasonable to expect they'd probably sound fairly similar on a low impedance source but with some differences in sound stage.  If that's true, seems like you've managed to get the best of both worlds - reasonable source matching profile with a very similar sound to the v1, though I've not seen any information that would suggest any way to predict how the sound stage might change.[/QUOTE]


Something else that I just thought of that would probably be difficult or not even possible to do, would be to take one of the BAs and point it inwards towards the body.. The problem with this mod would be that the length of the wires on the BAs are not long enough.. So perhaps on my ZS6 (when it arrives) I will just make a mini cap out of shrink tubing to place over one BA in hopes that it will completely mute it.. I just don't have the heart to butcher my ZS6 like I did to my ZS5.
Then again, I wonder if adding more space in the nozzle improved the tuning on my ZS5?? It just sounds so excellent now...
I guess I just need to order another ZS5V.2 and do some experimental comparisons and tests.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 30, 2017)

acia said:


> where do you grab zs6 for 26 usd??



I'm not sure if this is any good anymore because it is a few days old.. but I grabbed a red one ...

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770867.html?lkid=10690141

25.99$ with the code: EPHIFI2

EDIT: Just checked and it said: "The Code you entered has expired" 
Sorry...


----------



## hakuzen

acia said:


> ZS5 v2 HAS GOT a CROSSOVER
> 
> any picture please?


dunno if it's a crossover, a resistor or what, but it looks like the same tweak kz has implemented in zs6. at least, resistance is different to v1, where all drivers were in parallel, no crossover.
i'll confirm it when receive and measure a v2.


----------



## young59

Thanks @vector84 for the help finally made my impedance adaptor using 2 x 22 ohm 0.25 Watt resistance in series on each channel and it indeed removed the annoying hissing sound.


----------



## RomStar (Oct 30, 2017)

Don't wanna ruin the flow of things, but if as stated the Zs5 v2s have the same internal as the Zs6.... Then doesn't that mean most people reviewing the Zs6s are undergoing placebo? Cuz I've seen repeated reports of increased bass, better mids and so on.... Would be ironic if it's simply a Zs5 v2 in a metal shell 

Edit: I forgot to take the zs6 vents into account. Should have a larger soundstage but lowered sub bass? (since vent decreases pressure and seal? Or does that depend on how it's tuned?)


----------



## kokakolia

The vents would make a difference. And the harder aluminum shell could provide dampening. 

It would be interesting to see if someone could reverse engineer a ZS6 from a ZS5. 

How would you accomplish dampening though?


----------



## Cya|\|

I want to try to mod my iems. Since somebody's already done it with the kz zs5, I would like to ask here for how to do it.
Does covering the inner vent (the one near the ear muzzle) decrese the bass, and covering the outer vent decrese clarity?


----------



## HiFiChris (Oct 30, 2017)

Cya|\| said:


> I want to try to mod my iems. Since somebody's already done it with the kz zs5, I would like to ask here for how to do it.
> Does covering the inner vent (the one near the ear muzzle) decrese the bass, and covering the outer vent decrese clarity?



The opposite is the case. Covering le inner vent = moar (sub-) bass, whereas covering le outer vent = less (mid-) bass.


----------



## Cya|\|

HiFiChris said:


> The opposite is the case. Covering le inner vent = moar (sub-) bass, whereas covering le outer vent = less (mid-) bass.



I don't understand. Didn't you cover the inner vents here http://frequency-response.blogspot.it/2017/06/KZ-ZS5-Frequency-Response.html and reduced the bass?


----------



## HiFiChris (Oct 30, 2017)

Cya|\| said:


> I don't understand. Didn't you cover the inner vents here http://frequency-response.blogspot.it/2017/06/KZ-ZS5-Frequency-Response.html and reduced the bass?



No.

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----------



## Cya|\|




----------



## CoiL

wastan said:


> Here's something odd. I have a ZS5 v1 and just got my hands on a ZS6 and a second ZS5. I plugged on the ZS6 and, as expected, there was that little spike of brightness everyone is trying to tone down. Then I plug in the New ZS5 and the same spike is there. OK I think, this is a v2. I do an A/B comparison for both the new IEMs with my v1. Same source, same tips, same cable. Confirms that both the new ones have the spike that my v1 does not. Finally I pull the screen off the new ZS5 and there's only one BA in the barrel. It's also a v1! Is something besides BA placement going on or is my hearing just that idiosyncratic?


Thanks for interesting observation and info! Something is going with ZS5 revisions/batches definitelt. Luckily I got the "true" first batch v1 and wont be getting ZS6 - I don`t believe it is very noticeable upgrade.


----------



## trumpethead

While I'm awaiting my ZS6 delivery from GB I have been listening to my ZS5 both Grey and Blue and I believe version one on both. While they are both on the bright side I detect no sibilance. However when I amp them both the brightness mellows a bit, the bass becomes fuller and the overall sound quality increases exponentially... Maybe these KZ drivers require a bit more power to reach full potential and to even out the different frequencies....just using a lowly fiio E6 to amp but boy what a difference....


----------



## xrk971

The ZS5 is 8ohms impedance and most smartphones or DAPs don't have the power (current) to fully drive an 8ohm load. 8ohms is the same impedance as normal open air stereo speakers btw. Although the ZS5's are much more sensitive than room speakers, you would not expect your phone or DAP to power your room speakers that well, likewise, don't expect the same performance when powering 8ohm IEMs. Using an amp, and I have tried many now - always makes a big noticeable difference.  Most noticeable is the profound bass the ZS5 is capable of - I mean subwoofer infrasonic stuff if the content is there.  It's the body shaking type stuff in movie flicks. The mids and highs will all be more clear and engaging - although using a good SE Class A amp helps in that department immensely. I recently tried the ZS5 (V1's) with a Magni 3 and it did a nice job pulling out the deep infrasonic bass. Although I think for overall presentation I prefer Class A amps.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Thanks @vector84 for the help finally made my impedance adaptor using 2 x 22 ohm 0.25 Watt resistance in series on each channel and it indeed removed the annoying hissing sound.


How's the sound signature change?  I'm guessing you would've already mentioned it if that adaptor had caused them to turn into shrieky treble canons rather than mellowing out the treble a bit 

If adding resistance to the v2 mellows out the treble spike, that would be a really strong indicator that they're likely using the same crossover as the ZS6.


----------



## oyobass

vector84 said:


> @hakuzen A few people have reported new white boxes for the ZS5 - since they were never a thing for the v1 that I ever heard of, that might be your best bet for securing a v2?



Just an interesting note: We ordered 5 sets of KZ ZST to use with some Sennheiser wireless in ear monitor systems. Due to an ordering mix up, one set arrived last week in a black box. A later order with the same Amazon vendor arrived Saturday- all four had the white boxes.

By the way, I put together a burn-in rig to break in all 5 IEMs at the same time from the same source. A Monoprice amplified headphone 4-way splitter (not recommended, the more earphones you plug in, the worse it sounds) and a further 2-way passive splitter plugged into one of the outputs. It should provide a good signal for burn-in, although I don't think it will be very listenable...


----------



## TheVortex

Received my black ZS6 with mic from Gearbest which I ordered 2 weeks ago. Arrived in the white box and my ZS3/ZS5 silver cable doesn't fit them but the silver cable fits my ZS5 V1's fine?


----------



## vector84 (Oct 30, 2017)

TheVortex said:


> Received my black ZS6 with mic from Gearbest which I ordered 2 weeks ago. Arrived in the white box and my ZS3/ZS5 silver cable doesn't fit them but the silver cable fits my ZS5 V1's fine?


Slight manufacturing variances can make the fit of cables a bit different between samples - some may be considerably tighter fits than others, especially when first inserting cables.  The plastic on most of the KZ official cables is actually pretty soft, and when people say they can require immense amounts of force to insert the first time, you're actually typically deforming the plastic slightly when doing this to get a secure fit.
(in an extreme case, I managed to completely seat a plug in a reversed polarity orientation without any other modifications this way...)

Is it a problem like that? Or polarity of the plug possibly (they are keyed) ? Or are we talking straight up just does not fit?


----------



## HiFiChris

Cya|\| said:


>


----------



## HiFiChris

Cya|\| said:


> I don't understand. Didn't you cover the inner vents here http://frequency-response.blogspot.it/2017/06/KZ-ZS5-Frequency-Response.html and reduced the bass?



Yes, yes I did. No, this increases the bass.


----------



## tworule (Oct 30, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> The ZS5 is 8ohms impedance and most smartphones or DAPs don't have the power (current) to fully drive an 8ohm load. 8ohms is the same impedance as normal open air stereo speakers btw. Although the ZS5's are much more sensitive than room speakers, you would not expect your phone or DAP to power your room speakers that well, likewise, don't expect the same performance when powering 8ohm IEMs. Using an amp, and I have tried many now - always makes a big noticeable difference.  Most noticeable is the profound bass the ZS5 is capable of - I mean subwoofer infrasonic stuff if the content is there.  It's the body shaking type stuff in movie flicks. The mids and highs will all be more clear and engaging - although using a good SE Class A amp helps in that department immensely. I recently tried the ZS5 (V1's) with a Magni 3 and it did a nice job pulling out the deep infrasonic bass. Although I think for overall presentation I prefer Class A amps.


 which portable amp can you recommend? I want to use it with my iPhone 5s. But my ipgone’s lightning connection does not work with data.it just charges, data connection does not work. So I need a portable amp to use with my iphone audio jack. Thanks. Thinking fiio q1 but I will not be able to use its dac. So an amp better. I have zs5 v1 and zs6 on the way. I read people recommended a few but the OP decided to go with fiioq1. But I need just an amp


----------



## TheVortex

vector84 said:


> Slight manufacturing variances can make the fit of cables a bit different between samples - some may be considerably tighter fits than others, especially when first inserting cables.  The plastic on most of the KZ official cables is actually pretty soft, and when people say they can require immense amounts of force to insert the first time, you're actually typically deforming the plastic slightly when doing this to get a secure fit.
> (in an extreme case, I managed to completely seat a plug in a reversed polarity orientation without any other modifications this way...)
> 
> Is it a problem like that? Or polarity of the plug possibly (they are keyed) ? Or are we talking straight up just does not fit?



Just had a bit of time to look at it. My right iem is fine it's just the left one, seems like the holes for the 2 pin connector are too small. I have tried a sim tool ejector to enlarge the holes but no luck yet. I have tried it with the original mic cable, my ZS3/ZS5 silver cable and a ZST silver cable.

Also I am attempting to plug it in correctly as one side circular edge.


----------



## vector84 (Oct 30, 2017)

TheVortex said:


> Just had a bit of time to look at it. My right iem is fine it's just the left one, seems like the holes for the 2 pin connector are too small. I have tried a sim tool ejector to enlarge the holes but no luck yet. I have tried it with the original mic cable, my ZS3/ZS5 silver cable and a ZST silver cable.
> 
> Also I am attempting to plug it in correctly as one side circular edge.


Well, to me this sounds like the difference between 0.75mm and 0.78mm pins (and I'm inclined to think there's some significant tolerance differences in KZ's 0.75mm pins too).

The first run of ZS3s came with 0.78mm pins, most of the rest and the ZS5/6 are supposed to be 0.75mm.  However my darkly colored upgrade cable clearly has larger pins than the stock ZS5 cable I use - though not quite as large as the 0.78mm pins on the original run ZS3 cable I received.


What's more surprising to me though is that you can't get it to fit by enlarging the hole.  Most people have reported fitting 0.78mm pins just fine with that technique, though it will permanently expand the connector and prevent 0.75mm pins from fitting securely (my darkly colored upgrade cable has caused a lesser version of the same symptoms - stock cable fits securely, but only just barely where it was very firm before using the upgrade cable).  I would tend to think force and persistence would win out, but I don't want to suggest something that might incur damage... proceed with caution.


----------



## Rilke

Recieved my ZS6 from Gearbest ordered two weeks ago. I messed up the order and ordered black instead of Green . I asked them to kindly change it and they agreed. But still , I recieved the black one 

Anyway from a noob perspective :

Treble canon ear knives ?  
Sibilant ?  
Bright sound ? 

Does it need an amp ( with Fiio x1 II, Ipod classic 5th ) ? 

Isolation  ( with foam tips  ) 80% 
Good value for the money ? 

End game for me


----------



## youngarthur

I have had to use a large safety pin, to enlarge the earphone holes, on the ZS. 3/5/6, by almost levering the holes open, and even then, considerable pressure was exerted to get a fit.It was a success, but don't try this at home children!.


----------



## xrk971

tworule said:


> which portable amp can you recommend? I want to use it with my iPhone 5s. But my ipgone’s lightning connection does not work with data.it just charges, data connection does not work. So I need a portable amp to use with my iphone audio jack. Thanks. Thinking fiio q1 but I will not be able to use its dac. So an amp better. I have zs5 v1 and zs6 on the way. I read people recommended a few but the OP decided to go with fiioq1. But I need just an amp



Many amps will fit the bill here, almost any amp will be better than no amp.  All I can say is that I prefer the sound of a pocket sized single ended Class A headphone amp.  A search will tell you more.


----------



## Superluc

Rilke said:


> End game _*(until 11.11)*_ for me


Fix'd


----------



## Cya|\|

HiFiChris said:


>



That made me lol.
Thx for your hint anyway. In the end, covering either vent didn't improve the sound of my iems. Covering the inner would make the sound too bassy and boomy (I didn't notice the increase in the highs, probably because it was masquerated by the bass). Covering the outer vent would make the sound too shrill.


----------



## Wiljen (Oct 30, 2017)

Anybody else got a nintaus X10 or Crazier R3 player?  George sent me their version to review (Crazier R3) so I was comparing it to the Nintaus branded along with the Cayin N3, Benjie K9, and the Ruizu A50 and I may have stumbled on something.   The Crazier and Nintaus are both slightly warm and slightly dark daps and they pair very well with the Zs5(v1) and Zs6.     Considering you could get the Zs6, a Crazier player, an upgrade cable and some foams and you are still just barely over the $100 mark, this may well be Christmas combo for a few folks I have on my list.  For the record, firmware between the Nintaus and Crazier branded versions seems pretty dead even across the board - cant find any tweaks on one side or the other.


----------



## AudioObsession (Oct 30, 2017)

Hey guys, here's some KZ ZS5/6 and ZST/ES3 Cable Measurements...
First of all, there doesn't seem to be a .078MM pin on EITHER cable..
They actually both measured at .072MM..





I also measured the pins on my fancy upgrade silver cable and they were .075MM





Here's a comparison of the two STANDARD cables end to end:




Here's the spacing between the pins (.042" or 1.07MM) on BOTH ZS5/6 & ZST/ES3 cables:




And here's a few other measurements (the following are All in INCHES)


 

 

 



Anyway, the conclusion is; the pins are very close to the same on -all-  of them (+/- a few .001mm), but the outer plastic casings around the pins vary quite a bit (as seen directly above ^^)..

In some cases you can cut the plastic in order to make a cable fit the "incorrect model"..
For example: the above SILVER upgrade cable for the ES3/ZST can be trimmed to fit a ZS6/6...
Untrimmed it will still plug in to (and work just fine) the ZS5/6...
However, it wont go in as deep without the plastic trimming.

Hope this helps!


----------



## kokakolia

Flame me! Just burn me alive!

Since I was disappointed with the ATE and ZSE, I bought myself a pair of KEF M100s on sale for $100 (Canadian) at the headphonebar.com. They usually sell for $150 in the U.S.A. or  £100 in the UK, and that's a questionable deal. But at $100 Canadian (that's $80 US), I simply couldn't pass the deal! 

Anyway, I couldn't be happier and I wish I had bought them sooner. It's basically a no-frills earphone without annoying shenanigans with bloated bass or boosted fatiguing treble. It just sounds FLAT. The comfort is simply excellent. They just have that ergonomic shape and you just have to pop them in your ears. No fumbling around with foam tips and over-the-ear cables. It's so refreshing after using the ATEs as my daily drivers. Better, there's plenty of extension in the treble and the sub-bass sounds delightful. It will play anything you throw at it well. I don't think that $100 is too much to ask for something that I honestly can't criticize in any way. Maybe it's on the brighter side? It doesn't bother me at all. I can wear these babies all day long. Oh yeah, and they achieve all of this with one single 10mm driver. Not 4. 

Secretly, I'm worried that I'll like the ZS5 (V2) when they arrive. We'll see...


----------



## Wiljen

kokakolia said:


> Flame me! Just burn me alive!
> .



I see no need to flame you, I'm happy for you.  We are all seeking that perfect fit for our listening preferences and if yours was <$100 then more power to you.  I've tried a ton of things and haven't found my utopia yet in a price range I can afford.  Maybe one day....


----------



## nxnje

Just ordered my pair of kz zs3 instead of the zst.. many people said zst had a bit lack of bass and a little emphasis on the high ones.
Hope it won't disappoint me.. i'll post my impressions here too.


----------



## Wiljen

Never heard of a Zst being bass light.


----------



## jmwreck (Oct 30, 2017)

Superluc said:


> I have this one.
> Others use this, cutting the plastic at the end for better fit.



Hi Superluc, with regards to your 2nd link, can I use it with the ZS6 even if it is for ZST? If not, for the rest of the guys here, can I use this cable?

edited post------------

I have seen this post about cutting the plastic.



AudioObsession said:


> Hey guys, here's some KZ ZS5/6 and ZST/ES3 Cable Measurements...
> First of all, there doesn't seem to be a .078MM pin on EITHER cable..
> They actually both measured at .072MM..
> 
> ...


----------



## Superluc

jmwreck said:


> Hi Superluc, with regards to your 2nd link, can I use it with the ZS6 even if it is for ZST?


Can be adapted, for it. 

Anyway, hillsonicaudio posted this today, but i can't find it on Aliexpress. 
If that is true, now exist also another version of that cable, for better fit with ZS3/ZS5/ZS6. 

If someone buy it and have already the older one, let us know and see the difference.


----------



## kokakolia

Wiljen said:


> I see no need to flame you, I'm happy for you.  We are all seeking that perfect fit for our listening preferences and if yours was <$100 then more power to you.  I've tried a ton of things and haven't found my utopia yet in a price range I can afford.  Maybe one day....



Thanks! I'm really determined to stay under $100. If you look around, there are so many options.


----------



## zozito

Do you think, boys, an Xduoo X3 being a good source for ZS5 v.1?
I don't know, but using it and my ipod classic, I like much more v.2's.


----------



## vector84

zozito said:


> Do you think, boys, an Xduoo X3 being a good source for ZS5 v.1?
> I don't know, but using it and my ipod classic, I like much more v.2's.


I can't figure out much about its output stage, but it has measurements available: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/xduoo-x3.php
From specs and measurements, looks like it has: plenty of current at low impedance  incredibly low output impedance and no sub-bass roll-off @16 ohms 

These discussions on powering the ZS5v1 without distortion are already pushing the limits of my knowledge relating to amps though - I have no ability to tell you how it might compare in relative quality to a SE class A, which according to someone who actually works with such things professionally (@xrk971), is a superior choice to his ear.


----------



## zozito

vector84 said:


> I can't figure out much about its output stage, but it has measurements available: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/xduoo-x3.php
> From specs and measurements, looks like it has: plenty of current at low impedance  incredibly low output impedance and no sub-bass roll-off @16 ohms
> 
> These discussions on powering the ZS5v1 without distortion are already pushing the limits of my knowledge relating to amps though - I have no ability to tell you how it might compare in relative quality to a SE class A, which according to someone who actually works with such things professionally (@xrk971), is a superior choice to his ear.


Thank you very much, mate. I'm using rockbox on X3...is it possible that it can altere those measurements in any way?


----------



## Taters00

vector84 said:


> I believe it was @Slater who pointed out that it is indeed just some heat shrink tubing.  Best of luck with the repair.


Haha thanks for the heads up will be trying the repair soon...


----------



## vector84

zozito said:


> Thank you very much, mate. I'm using rockbox on X3...is it possible that it can altere those measurements in any way?


Possible? Maybe, but I would tend to think not likely.


----------



## xrk971

vector84 said:


> I can't figure out much about its output stage, but it has measurements available: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/xduoo-x3.php
> From specs and measurements, looks like it has: plenty of current at low impedance  incredibly low output impedance and no sub-bass roll-off @16 ohms
> 
> These discussions on powering the ZS5v1 without distortion are already pushing the limits of my knowledge relating to amps though - I have no ability to tell you how it might compare in relative quality to a SE class A, which according to someone who actually works with such things professionally (@xrk971), is a superior choice to his ear.



You don't have to take my word that SE Class Aamps sound better. Here is a brief tutorial by Nelson Pass, a legendary amp designer. 

https://www.passlabs.com/press/single-ended-class

Basically you want an amp with as few components in the signal path as possible. You want high bias current through the transistors even when music is not playing. You want the amp to behave in a single ended mode - that is, it pushes differently than it pulls. That's because natural sound is single ended in nature. Because air transmits sound through compression and rarefaction. They are asymmetric. You can't pull on air but you push on it.  So the harmonic nature of sound transmitted through air is SE. A SE Class A amp naturally sounds similar to how sound travels through air. Other amp topologies may sound unnatural because they don't have the second order harmonic distortion nature of air. Odd order harmonic distortion is an unnatural sound. It sounds mechanical.


----------



## zozito

vector84 said:


> Possible? Maybe, but I would tend to think not likely.


Thak you again.


----------



## hakuzen

zozito said:


> Do you think, boys, an Xduoo X3 being a good source for ZS5 v.1?
> I don't know, but using it and my ipod classic, I like much more v.2's.





vector84 said:


> I can't figure out much about its output stage, but it has measurements available: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/xduoo-x3.php
> From specs and measurements, looks like it has: plenty of current at low impedance  incredibly low output impedance and no sub-bass roll-off @16 ohms
> 
> These discussions on powering the ZS5v1 without distortion are already pushing the limits of my knowledge relating to amps though - I have no ability to tell you how it might compare in relative quality to a SE class A, which according to someone who actually works with such things professionally (@xrk971), is a superior choice to his ear.





zozito said:


> Thank you very much, mate. I'm using rockbox on X3...is it possible that it can altere those measurements in any way?



in next hours, i'll measure maximum volume (and maximum dB SPL) you can get with acceptable low distortion, when pairing ZS5 v1 (and ZS6, although there aren't power issues with ZS6) with xDuoo X3, SMS iDEA (Sabaj Da2) and maybe some other DAPs and amps i've got around. anyway, i'm sure xDuoo X3 is a very good pairing, like @vector84 has told you: the check marks ensure you'll hear ZS5 v1 without any alteration.
but let me measure to confirm it 100%.


----------



## arammco

Hi guys i'm thinking to get the Kz kz5 for remplace the faulty xiaomi hybrid i get yesterday. 
I read good things about the ks5 but i read even read the bad things, like some problem with the silicon things not really comfy or with some problems with the sound. 
Is worth the try? Now they cost €16.23 and i'm really interest to try them (like with xiaomi hybrid but i don't really like them) i just don't want to waste time and money, suggestions?


----------



## drag0nslayer

How does DM5 Compares to Veedix nc 50?


----------



## GhettoBlaster

Hey guys, been out of the kz game for a while wanted to get something for 11.11. any recommendations. ZS6, ZS5.... what everyone looking at? (Include any non-kz Budget iems if you want)


----------



## zozito

hakuzen said:


> in next hours, i'll measure maximum volume (and maximum dB SPL) you can get with acceptable low distortion, when pairing ZS5 v1 (and ZS6, although there aren't power issues with ZS6) with xDuoo X3, SMS iDEA (Sabaj Da2) and maybe some other DAPs and amps i've got around. anyway, i'm sure xDuoo X3 is a very good pairing, like @vector84 has told you: the check marks ensure you'll hear ZS5 v1 without any alteration.
> but let me measure to confirm it 100%.


Thank you very much, mate!


----------



## vector84

xrk971 said:


> You don't have to take my word that SE Class Aamps sound better. Here is a brief tutorial by Nelson Pass, a legendary amp designer.
> 
> https://www.passlabs.com/press/single-ended-class
> 
> Basically you want an amp with as few components in the signal path as possible. You want high bias current through the transistors even when music is not playing. You want the amp to behave in a single ended mode - that is, it pushes differently than it pulls. That's because natural sound is single ended in nature. Because air transmits sound through compression and rarefaction. They are asymmetric. You can't pull on air but you push on it.  So the harmonic nature of sound transmitted through air is SE. A SE Class A amp naturally sounds similar to how sound travels through air. Other amp topologies may sound unnatural because they don't have the second order harmonic distortion nature of air. Odd order harmonic distortion is an unnatural sound. It sounds mechanical.


Thanks, that's going to take some time to digest, but I think I understand a little better your critique of our critical commentary in regards to coupling caps.

Seems like it might be tough to find anything in that topology in the budget sector (say under $100 or so?) that could comfortably drive a 4 ohm load without some modifications though?


----------



## Mellowship

About the ZS5 (v1) and the differences between music types/recordings.
Yesterday I was listening to the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. Amazing studio work, great mastering, with the ZS5 you can really listen to all the technical work that went on the making of that album, and still appreciate the music.
After that, I was lusting for some Red Hot Chili Peppers and started listening to 1999's Californication. Well... This album is musically grand! But it is also well known for the extreme dynamic range compression. And with the ZS5, you can actually hear the compression. The result is a total mess. There is no texture, no instrument separation. From time to time, you can listen to the way compression was jiggled, for instances in some of the Chad Smith's drum passages, when the drum work comes up front and is distributed between channels, to return again to the same old messy sound. 
Resuming, I think the ZS5 is great, but not recommended for those who mainly listen to ill-mastered records that suffer from the "loudness wars" dynamic range compression extremes. The ZS5 loves jazz ensembles, old pop and classic rock, prog and classical music. But when it comes to modern rock and pop music with too much compression, it's a no-no! I think this might explain why some people find the ZS5 to be so different between some musical genres... it's not the genres, it's the loudness! They are too good for crappy masterings!


----------



## CoiL

Mellowship said:


> About the ZS5 (v1) and the differences between music types/recordings.
> Yesterday I was listening to the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. Amazing studio work, great mastering, with the ZS5 you can really listen to all the technical work that went on the making of that album, and still appreciate the music.
> After that, I was lusting for some Red Hot Chili Peppers and started listening to 1999's Californication. Well... This album is musically grand! But it is also well known for the extreme dynamic range compression. And with the ZS5, you can actually hear the compression. The result is a total mess. There is no texture, no instrument separation. From time to time, you can listen to the way compression was jiggled, for instances in some of the Chad Smith's drum passages, when the drum work comes up front and is distributed between channels, to return again to the same old messy sound.
> Resuming, I think the ZS5 is great, but not recommended for those who mainly listen to ill-mastered records that suffer from the "loudness wars" dynamic range compression extremes. The ZS5 loves jazz ensembles, old pop and classic rock, prog and classical music. But when it comes to modern rock and pop music with too much compression, it's a no-no! I think this might explain why some people find the ZS5 to be so different between some musical genres... it's not the genres, it's the loudness! They are too good for ****ty masterings!


+1 

I luv how my ZS5v1 sounds with progressive rock. For example, my latest find - _Seven Impale - Contrapasso_ sounds great with it but take something else from pop-music, it sounds quite mediocre. 

ZS5v1 wants only littlebit extra juice and it is not suitable for smartphones and such.

I still haven`t had time to try some tweaks with ZS5v1 but I still find it having tiny fault in bass area - it is sometimes too "mellow" and misses some punch & crunch some recordings should have.


----------



## kokakolia

GhettoBlaster said:


> Hey guys, been out of the kz game for a while wanted to get something for 11.11. any recommendations. ZS6, ZS5.... what everyone looking at? (Include any non-kz Budget iems if you want)



I would look at the following:

- Final Audio E2000/E3000
- Brainwavz B100

That's just some food for thought. They're around $50 or less. The KZ cost about half. What do you consider budget? 

I'll give you my impressions on the ZS5 (V2?) when I get them. I'm just worried that they're gonna be too sharp for my liking. So I listed the earphones above. Based on the reviews, they seem right up my alley. But you may have different preferences. 

Also, are the Xiaomi Hybrids any good? They look decent for  < $25.


----------



## Majorfifth

is anyone have try qkz w1 pro, qkz w6, or kz zst pro ? 
any recomendation between them?


----------



## crabdog

For the love of sanity thumbnails please!


----------



## Majorfifth

kokakolia said:


> I would look at the following:
> 
> - Final Audio E2000/E3000
> - Brainwavz B100
> ...



have you try FiiO F3 ? it cost around 25 bucks


----------



## Wiljen

Majorfifth said:


> have you try FiiO F3 ? it cost around 25 bucks



The Mixcder X5 was also a really nice dynamic driver in ear in the <$20 category.


----------



## kokakolia

Majorfifth said:


> have you try FiiO F3 ? it cost around 25 bucks



Nope! There are too many earphones! I'd love to try them though. It's as if my drawer won't shut because it's loaded with earphones. 

Well at least I'm happy with my KEF m100...for now


----------



## TJK81

Mellowship said:


> I was lusting for some Red Hot Chili Peppers and started listening to 1999's Californication. Well... This album is musically grand! But it is also well known for the extreme dynamic range compression


Recommend to get Califonication in the rough mix. This is how the album should sound... Actually, not only this album.


----------



## nxnje

Heard opinions online and a friend bought it before me saying the same thing.
After burn-in, he could still listen a little boost on treble and a minor lack on sub bass.

@Don't know why i can't quote the guy who said me he had never heard about zst being bass light.


----------



## bsoplinger (Oct 31, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Also, are the Xiaomi Hybrids any good? They look decent for  < $25.


About the Xiaomi Hybrid Pro which I own vs just the hybrid which I don't own... I find that I like the fit when wearing them over ear but in the correct ear. They're designed to be worn cable down and people typically swap left for right when wearing a cable down style as over ear but I didn't like the fit that way. There are comfort complaints in the Xiaomi hybrid pro thread. Like the ZS5 (and ZS6) there is a port on the facing the ear side that can be blocked or partially blocked to add more bass. Either have plenty of decent that goes pretty low but isn't flabby and loose bass, especially depending on modifying the small port hole. In comparison I find the mids and highs to feel smoother and less piercing but less detail, less differentiation between instruments compared to the KZ products. So comparable but different IMHO.


----------



## Wiljen

Lack of sub-bass extension I can see on the Zst but lack of bass as a whole I don't unless he just got a faulty pair.  Usually mid-bass is very pronounced and the Zst is a pretty deep V shape sound signature.


----------



## kokakolia

bsoplinger said:


> About the Xiaomi Hybrid Pro which I own vs just the hybrid which I don't own... I find that I like the fit when wearing them over ear but in the correct ear. They're designed to be worn cable down and people typically swap left for right when wearing a cable down style as over ear but I didn't like the fit that way. There are comfort complaints in the Xiaomi hybrid pro thread. Like the ZS5 (and ZS6) there is a port on the facing the ear side that can be blocked or partially blocked to add more bass. Either have plenty of decent that goes pretty low but isn't flabby and loose bass, especially depending on modifying the small port hole. In comparison I find the mids and highs to feel smoother and less piercing but less detail, less differentiation between instruments compared to the KZ products. So comparable but different IMHO.



That sounds right up my alley. I should have ordered that instead of the ZSE. Seems like it would be easy to recommend.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 31, 2017)

*Some samples of sources (no coupling caps, low output impedance) power pairing with KZ ZS5 v1*

(note: voltage and current are RMS; dB are SPL, except in graphs)
reminding ZS5 v1 and ZS6 impedance and sensitivity..
ZS5 v1 (4.8Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: ~122 dB/V (99 dB/mW).
ZS6 (14.3Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: ~127 dB/V (109 dB/mW).

*
Benjie S5* (DAP)
Volume steps: 30
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 10 / 25mV / 5.20mA / 90dB peak  
ZS6: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 15 / 78mV / 5.38mA / 105dB peak . 


*JDS Labs C5D* (USB DAC+amp / amp)
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 117mV / 24.4mA / 103dB peak  
ZS6:  

*
SMSL iDEA* (USB DAC+amp)
Volume steps: ~20 (2.5dB/step, except first steps) .
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: ~14 / 257mV / 53.6mA / 110dB peak 
ZS6: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: ~17 / 618mV / 43.2mA / 123dB peak 

*
xDuoo X3* (DAP, rockbox)
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: ~75% / 310mV / 64.6mA / 112dB peak 
ZS6: 


Considering this info, many sources provide enough power with low distortion to drive ZS5 v1.
The only ones which can't drive them properly are cheap DAPs like Benjie, or many smartphones, or weak amplifiers (and they are just fair with ZS6).
JDS Labs C5D can reach acceptable sound level (~103dB peak, let's say 90dB), but not enough if you like very loud volume.
SMSL iDEA / Sabaj Da2, and XDuoo X3, don't have any problem to drive ZS5 v1.


----------



## zozito

hakuzen said:


> *Some samples of sources (no coupling caps, low output impedance) power pairing with KZ ZS5 v1*
> 
> (note: voltage and current are RMS; dB are SPL, except in graphs)
> reminding ZS5 v1 and ZS6 impedance and sensitivity..
> ...


Thank you very much, mate!


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> About the Xiaomi Hybrid Pro which I own vs just the hybrid which I don't own... I find that I like the fit when wearing them over ear but in the correct ear. They're designed to be worn cable down and people typically swap left for right when wearing a cable down style as over ear but I didn't like the fit that way. There are comfort complaints in the Xiaomi hybrid pro thread. Like the ZS5 (and ZS6) there is a port on the facing the ear side that can be blocked or partially blocked to add more bass. Either have plenty of decent that goes pretty low but isn't flabby and loose bass, especially depending on modifying the small port hole. In comparison I find the mids and highs to feel smoother and less piercing but less detail, less differentiation between instruments compared to the KZ products. So comparable but different IMHO.



The problem I found when wearing up an NOT swapping the channels is that it muffles the sound in a weird manner). The reason for this is that the nozzles are angled, so when you wear them up AND swap the channels, the nozzles still point in the correct direction (ie towards your ear drum). If you wear them up and do NOT swap the channels, the nozzles angle the wrong way (away from the ear drum).

Sure, I could still hear it, but it was so much clearer when they were angled the proper way. I guess it was reflecting off my ear canal on the way to my ear drum, which is what was causing the muffled sound. Maybe your ear canals are angled/shaped differently, which is why it sounds OK when you don't swap the channels? 

If the 3.5mm jack ever goes bad, I was planning on reterminating them with the channels swapped in the plug. That way, I can wear them up and swapped (for fit), but the L/R channels will actually be correct.


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> *Some samples of sources (no coupling caps, low output impedance) power pairing with KZ ZS5 v1*
> 
> (note: voltage and current are RMS; dB are SPL, except in graphs)
> reminding ZS5 v1 and ZS6 impedance and sensitivity..
> ...



I can verify that the ZS5 v1 sounds great with the xduoo X3. It sounds significantly better when the FiiO E12A Mont Blanc is added into the mix. But I often roll without the amp, and in those cases I am more than happy with the sound of just the X3.

On that same note, I despise how it sounds straight out of my iPods (Classic 5.5, Nano 6G, & Touch 5G), as well as my iPhone SE. Very harsh and thin, with a lot less bass.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> Sure, I could still hear it, but it was so much clearer when they were angled the proper way. I guess it was reflecting off my ear canal on the way to my ear drum, which is what was causing the muffled sound. Maybe your ear canals are angled/shaped differently, which is why it sounds OK when you don't swap the channels?


You've perhaps seen me commenting in different threads about my troubles finding tips that fit whatever IEM comfortably and gave decent sound so I wouldn't be surprised in the least that something about my ear canals are different from typical. When I get a good fit and seal the Xiaomi stick out my ear in a very odd way so I understand what you mean about not getting them to fire down your ear canal but into the side. That's why I made sure to mention that at least some other people had fit issues so as not to give the impression that upside down and not swapped was a solution for everyone. Both brands suffer from a fit and comfort issues in their choice of an atypical design or shape.

I just started some serious listening to the SoundMAGIC E10M I got from Massdrop for $21. I don't know typical retail but they're surprisingly full bodied sound. Standard dynamic driver instead of a balanced armature hybrid so a different sound signature but its a possible substitute @kokakolia


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> You've perhaps seen me commenting in different threads about my troubles finding tips that fit whatever IEM comfortably and gave decent sound so I wouldn't be surprised in the least that something about my ear canals are different from typical. When I get a good fit and seal the Xiaomi stick out my ear in a very odd way so I understand what you mean about not getting them to fire down your ear canal but into the side. That's why I made sure to mention that at least some other people had fit issues so as not to give the impression that upside down and not swapped was a solution for everyone. Both brands suffer from a fit and comfort issues in their choice of an atypical design or shape.
> 
> I just started some serious listening to the SoundMAGIC E10M I got from Massdrop for $21. I don't know typical retail but they're surprisingly full bodied sound. Standard dynamic driver instead of a balanced armature hybrid so a different sound signature but its a possible substitute @kokakolia



Yeah, pretty sure I remember reading you having issues with tips (foam tips getting squished I believe).

Anyways, I'm glad they work for you as-is. I wish I didn't have to swap channels to get mine to fit and sound good. Just shows you how different everyone's ears are.

BTW, I used to have the SoundMAGIC E10. I agree they are really good for an older IEM. The cable is very fragile though, and mine didn't last long. Hopefully they revised it or yours lasts longer.


----------



## oyobass

Mellowship said:


> About the ZS5 (v1) and the differences between music types/recordings.
> Yesterday I was listening to the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. Amazing studio work, great mastering, with the ZS5 you can really listen to all the technical work that went on the making of that album, and still appreciate the music.
> After that, I was lusting for some Red Hot Chili Peppers and started listening to 1999's Californication. Well... This album is musically grand! But it is also well known for the extreme dynamic range compression. And with the ZS5, you can actually hear the compression. The result is a total mess. There is no texture, no instrument separation. From time to time, you can listen to the way compression was jiggled, for instances in some of the Chad Smith's drum passages, when the drum work comes up front and is distributed between channels, to return again to the same old messy sound.
> Resuming, I think the ZS5 is great, but not recommended for those who mainly listen to ill-mastered records that suffer from the "loudness wars" dynamic range compression extremes. The ZS5 loves jazz ensembles, old pop and classic rock, prog and classical music. But when it comes to modern rock and pop music with too much compression, it's a no-no! I think this might explain why some people find the ZS5 to be so different between some musical genres... it's not the genres, it's the loudness! They are too good for ****ty masterings!


If you can find it, there is a version of Stadium Arcadium around that was mastered for vinyl. Night and day difference, although there is still a bit of audible distortion on bass drum hits in places. That version removes most of the torture of listening to the great music on the album. The hack job mastering the album for CD should be a criminal offense.


----------



## TheVortex

Finally managed to get my ZS6 to accept the 2 pin. I prefer the sound signature of my ZST's and ZS5 V1's over the ZS6, the treble is too much and sounds un-natural.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 31, 2017)

I don`t remember who here had "issue" with ATR and ATE sounding bad but I got my latest pair of ATR + ATE and I absolutely love them.
ATE seems to be same as my last 5th gen ATE with red drivers inside, golden "grills" inside shells, gold/black metal cable reliefs, golden cable weights, code of shell is RQ:018NBM.
Didn`t do A-Bing with ATR atm but with short listen I can tell they are almost same sounding as ATE but with less bass and slightly more clarity/highs details and slight soundstage difference.

But I absolutely love the sound coming from ATE 5th gen (red nozzle grills removed + wide bore silicone tips (tips edge on level with nozzle) ).
Still my #1 dynamic IEM from KZ, especially with FF-modification. Atm, listening _Lucid Planet - EP & Seven Impale - Contrapasso 16/44 FLAC,_ just great SQ - hard hitting tight detailed bass, liquid detailed mids with weigth/warmth/naturalness in vocals and smooth but detailed highs, great soundstage with good frontal depth and stereo separation and layering. Just great.

I think some ppl here hating ATE & ATR have issue with proper quality source, amping and file quality or just have very different SQ preference. 

For information, I use HW&FW modified DX50 for those impressions.

Littlebit amping, removed red nozzle grills, custom cable, open back grill-mod, breathing hole adjustment and nozzle change these turn into "mindblowing" DD that slap ass of many cheap hybrids out there imho belive it or not ;P


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2017)

Mellowship said:


> About the ZS5 (v1) and the differences between music types/recordings.
> Yesterday I was listening to the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds. Amazing studio work, great mastering, with the ZS5 you can really listen to all the technical work that went on the making of that album, and still appreciate the music.
> After that, I was lusting for some Red Hot Chili Peppers and started listening to 1999's Californication. Well... This album is musically grand! But it is also well known for the extreme dynamic range compression. And with the ZS5, you can actually hear the compression. The result is a total mess. There is no texture, no instrument separation. From time to time, you can listen to the way compression was jiggled, for instances in some of the Chad Smith's drum passages, when the drum work comes up front and is distributed between channels, to return again to the same old messy sound.
> Resuming, I think the ZS5 is great, but not recommended for those who mainly listen to ill-mastered records that suffer from the "loudness wars" dynamic range compression extremes. The ZS5 loves jazz ensembles, old pop and classic rock, prog and classical music. But when it comes to modern rock and pop music with too much compression, it's a no-no! I think this might explain why some people find the ZS5 to be so different between some musical genres... it's not the genres, it's the loudness! They are too good for ****ty masterings!



Listening to Californication right now. You're right, it is a compressed mess - it sounds like a 128k MP3 rip. I always thought it was the lossless rip I did (sometimes settings can cause wonky results), but I listened to the CD source and it sounds the same.

Man, what a tragedy. I hope someday they release a remastered version (and I mean a PROPER remaster, not some of the junk remasters that are simply money grabs).


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2017)

CoiL said:


> I don`t remember who here had "issue" with ATR and ATE sounding bad but I got my latest pair of ATR + ATE and I absolutely love them.
> ATE seems to be same as my last 5th gen ATE with red drivers inside, golden "grills" inside shells, gold/black metal cable reliefs, golden cable weights, code of shell is RQ:018NBM.
> Didn`t do A-Bing with ATR atm but with short listen I can tell they are almost same sounding as ATE but with less bass and slightly more clarity/highs details and slight soundstage difference.
> 
> ...



Totally.

My modded ATE (same mods as yours minus the nozzle tube change you did) is one of my top single-DDs in my collection. It was only recently bested by the UiiSii CM5 in overall single dynamic performance, but I still think the modded ATE sounds more natural. It's the next best thing to being live in concert.

Simply amazing for an $8 IEM and 15 minutes worth of mods.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 31, 2017)

Slater said:


> Totally.
> My modded ATE (same mods as yours minus the nozzle tube change you did) is one of my top single-DDs in my collection. It was only recently bested by the UiiSii CM5 in overall single dynamic performance, but I still think the *modded ATE sounds* more *natural. It's the next best thing to being live in concert*.


True. Only other thing I have same way close to "live" natural sound is my desk setup (modified Aune T1 with Siemens E88CC goldpin) + Fidelio X1 (custom cable).
While I enjoy KZ ZS5v1 very much, putting modified ATE into my ears makes me always smile and drown into music without thinking/nitpicking on SQ 

But I should try UiiSii CM5 then too, if You say it is so good


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2017)

CoiL said:


> True. Only other thing I have same way close to "live" natural sound is my desk setup (modified Aune T1 with Siemens E88CC goldpin) + Fidelio X1 (custom cable).
> While I enjoy KZ ZS5v1 very much, putting modified ATE into my ears makes me always smile and drown into music without thinking/nitpicking on SQ
> 
> But I should try UiiSii CM5 then too, if You say it is so good



What wide bore silicone tips are you using BTW? The KZ turbo/whirlwinds? Or something else?

I think the 2 biggest problems with the ATE that are likely the source of people's dislikes are 1. the terrible stiff gel foam tips and 2. the nozzle screens.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> True. Only other thing I have same way close to "live" natural sound is my desk setup (modified Aune T1 with Siemens E88CC goldpin) + Fidelio X1 (custom cable).
> While I enjoy KZ ZS5v1 very much, putting modified ATE into my ears makes me always smile and drown into music without thinking/nitpicking on SQ
> 
> But I should try UiiSii CM5 then too, if You say it is so good



I think for $20usd it is worth every penny. If you see it cheaper during the 11.11 sales I would scoop it up.

You can read my CM5 impressions here to make sure it's your preferred sound: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-244#post-13737087

It's not as natural sounding as the ATE, but it's great otherwise. Expect to tip roll to get best sound. I've never had an IEM so sensitive to tip changes!


----------



## CoiL (Oct 31, 2017)

Slater said:


> What wide bore silicone tips are you using BTW? The KZ turbo/whirlwinds? Or something else?


No whirlwinds, ditched them long ago with ATE. Been mostly using these 2 with ATE:
1) very soft silicone white S-size. I think they are those (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAMSUNG-S...305646&hash=item232b7780b3:g:Q-MAAOxyXp5SRqH5), don`t remember anymore where I bought them.
2) "cone" shaped longer ones from this IEM (its bad IEM, bought only for tips): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html

Both are great for ATE/ATR imo, but I use only S-size tips, so other sizes and different ear shape may give different result.

Most important though, is pushing tips back down the nozzle stem so that tip edge is on level with nozzle edge.


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2017)

CoiL said:


> No whirlwinds, ditched them long ago with ATE. Been mostly using these 2 with ATE:
> 1) very soft silicone white S-size. I think they are those (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAMSUNG-S...305646&hash=item232b7780b3:g:Q-MAAOxyXp5SRqH5), don`t remember anymore where I bought them.
> 2) "cone" shaped longer ones from this IEM (its bad IEM, bought only for tips): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html
> 
> ...



Great, thanks for the links Coil.

I have been using KZ Whirlwinds, but I ordered some of the Samsung S4 ones you posted.

Also, I A/B the modded ATE and UiiSii CM5 tonight. The ATE has a more neutral/mid-forward sound than the CM5 (CM5 is v-shaped). CM5 is a bit brighter, and more resolving. But the ATE are sooo natural and smooth sounding. Very easy to listen to. Vocals and especially percussion sounds like it's right in front of you. The reverberation and decay of percussion such as snare, tom toms, and bongos is amazing.

I am in awe at how good the modded ATE are. Like darn good. I may order another pair just to mod and use at work. Either that, or I may try to do the open mod on the ATR, as I have 2 pairs of ATR that I never use. I remember reading that the housing of the ATR was better plastic (polycarbonate if I remember correctly). Not sure if they use the same drivers as the ATE 5th gen.

2 more questions regarding your replacement nozzle:

Did you use copper tubing, or some other material such as stainless steel?
Did you keep the length and internal diameter the same as the stock nozzle?


----------



## kokakolia

CoiL said:


> I don`t remember who here had "issue" with ATR and ATE sounding bad but I got my latest pair of ATR + ATE and I absolutely love them.
> ATE seems to be same as my last 5th gen ATE with red drivers inside, golden "grills" inside shells, gold/black metal cable reliefs, golden cable weights, code of shell is RQ:018NBM.
> Didn`t do A-Bing with ATR atm but with short listen I can tell they are almost same sounding as ATE but with less bass and slightly more clarity/highs details and slight soundstage difference.
> 
> ...



You called me? I recently got the ATE and wasn't impressed with the sibilant treble and recessed vocals. They're the reason (well, the ZSE too) I dropped $100 on some KEF M100 earphones. I couldn't be happier with my KEFs. 

This source issue sounds like snake oil to me. I'd rather have earphones that sound great on everything I use them on. The KEFs seem to do that just fine.


----------



## djmakemynight

CoiL said:


> True. Only other thing I have same way close to "live" natural sound is my desk setup (modified Aune T1 with Siemens E88CC goldpin) + Fidelio X1 (custom cable).
> While I enjoy KZ ZS5v1 very much, putting modified ATE into my ears makes me always smile and drown into music without thinking/nitpicking on SQ
> 
> But I should try UiiSii CM5 then too, if You say it is so good



Please do. My CM5 is keeping my ZS5 and ZS6 nicely wrapped in their boxes.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 1, 2017)

Slater said:


> 2 more questions regarding your replacement nozzle:
> 
> Did you use copper tubing, or some other material such as stainless steel?
> Did you keep the length and internal diameter the same as the stock nozzle?


1) I used brass nozzle from ED9 and did drill-phase nozzle edge into "trompet"-like.
2) nozzle length should be slightly shorter with new nozzle and inner diameter should be larger than stock plastic nozzle. Nozzle material plays quite big role @ highs sparklyness.
Bigger nozzle inner diameter "lets" details through better and evens up FR (bass "pulled back" little) but breathing ports "enforcement" helps to "raise" bass punch/slam littlebit.

ATR has different driver inside for sure (I have opened many) and so far there seems to be only 1 revision of ATR. ATE 5th gen has red shelled driver with tiny "tube" at shell in front of driver, ATR is blue without any "tube" but same size hole.


kokakolia said:


> You called me? I recently got the ATE and wasn't impressed with the sibilant treble and recessed vocals. They're the reason (well, the ZSE too) I dropped $100 on some KEF M100 earphones. I couldn't be happier with my KEFs.
> 
> *This source issue sounds like snake oil to me.* I'd rather have earphones* that sound great on everything I use them on.* The KEFs seem to do that just fine.


If source is snake oil to You, then You miss quite a lot. The better the HP, the better effect source actually has (because HP is able to deliver all that`s been fed).
What source and files are You usually using? What tips did You use with ATE?
But regarding ATE - You must have had faulty unit. ATE sounds nothing like You described.


djmakemynight said:


> Please do. My CM5 is keeping my ZS5 and ZS6 nicely wrapped in their boxes.


Thanks! Will try to get one.


----------



## Tim Le

Hey guys, I recently bought an IEM bundle which I gifted to my little brother (they mostly had IEMs ranging from $10-$50). I only briefly listened to them before giving it to him. Long story short, he got me to try the KZ ED10 in the gym today, and I was surprised by just how incredible they sound. I know the KZ range is huge, but what would be a solid upgrade to the KZ ED10. Just for comparison, I think I prefer them over the Sony XB-90ex that I've been using, which sells for around $100.


----------



## eaglesgift

CoiL said:


> 1) I used brass nozzle from ED9 and did drill-phase nozzle edge into "trompet"-like.
> 2) nozzle length should be slightly shorter with new nozzle and inner diameter should be larger than stock plastic nozzle. Nozzle material plays quite big role @ highs sparklyness.
> Bigger nozzle inner diameter "lets" details through better and evens up FR (bass "pulled back" little) but breathing ports "enforcement" helps to "raise" bass punch/slam littlebit.
> 
> ...


I quite like my unmodified ATE phones (they have the same number on the shell as yours). The sound signature reminds me of a mid-range pair of Panasonic closed-back headphones my father used to have when I was younger. Now, my memory could be way off and I certainly can't claim to have made a valid comparison because I haven't heard those Panasonic phones for 15 or 20 years but that's the first thing that came to my mind when I tried the ATEs out for the very first time. They certainly aren't sibilant and vocals don't sound recessed to me - no more than any other phones I have at least.


----------



## filltos

I have measured my ZS5 V2 with multimeter and my have 15 Ohms impedance.

If is your ZS5s or ZS6s highs still too harsh, just try these foams - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...id=487d8651-ae2a-498e-9d39-823b29e1de77&tpp=1
They will tame harsh highs more than T400 like foams.
They don´t hold on the nozzle as well as T400 foams, because they don´t have hard neck inside, but still acceptable.


----------



## CoiL

I should make another FF-mod and send it to HiFiChris, crabdog or B9Scrambler for reviewing and measurments ;P


----------



## hakuzen

filltos said:


> I have measured my ZS5 V2 with multimeter and my have 15 Ohms impedance.
> 
> If is your ZS5s or ZS6s highs still too harsh, just try these foams - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...id=487d8651-ae2a-498e-9d39-823b29e1de77&tpp=1
> They will tame harsh highs more than T400 like foams.
> They don´t hold on the nozzle as well as T400 foams, because they don´t have hard neck inside, but still acceptable.


thanks for measuring.
these foams don't tame the highs same way than regular foams, check my last graphs.


----------



## kar-re (Nov 1, 2017)

I got the ZS5 and ZS3, and all in all I'm very pleased. The ZS5 I ordered came as v2 tho.
One thing that irritates me a bit is that the right monitor of my pair of ZS5s are less sibliant compared to the left one. It's as if I got the right one v1 and the left one v2 LOL!
It's not really a big problem but after comparing the two ones by muting one and comparing the two ones it's loud and clear. The mid and bass sections sound perfectly normal tho.
I really enjoy the ZS3s sound signature as well.

Edit: Enjoying the ZS3s way more than the ZS5s. I'm thinking about ordering the ZS6s with the coupon but I'm not sure. I've cleaned the ZS5s with alcohol now, hoping it'll clear the sound up a bit.


----------



## young59

Can someone clarify this for me after seeing this much praise for the ATE I thought about getting one myself but on gearbest there seem to be 2 KZ ATE and 1 KZ ATE-S which one are you guys referring to?


----------



## themindfreak

Btw guys news of the KZ ZSR just came out. Its a ZST shaped housing in dark green, 1 dd + 2 ba configuration, news and pictures of it are all over twitter from NiceHCK.


----------



## young59 (Nov 1, 2017)

themindfreak said:


> Btw guys news of the KZ ZSR just came out. Its a ZST shaped housing in dark green, 1 dd + 2 ba configuration, news and pictures of it are all over twitter from NiceHCK.


Can you give the link or post the picture here. I cannot find them on twitter.

Edit: Found them


----------



## CoiL

young59 said:


> Can you give the link or post the picture here. I cannot find them on twitter.
> 
> Edit: Found them



screwCK ZS6 - I WANT THOSE!!! ;P O_o


----------



## Keller2

This isn't the zsr that was promised.

Although i guess it looks decent enough.

So is this kzs first triple?


----------



## young59

What I already liking about the design already is that the DD is on the front and the BAs are in the back.So if the BA in the recent ZS5 v2 and ZS6 were causing the treble spike due to being too close and blocking the nozzle this design would help with that issue and if this turns out to be true I am definitely gonna get those.


----------



## Holypal

young59 said:


> Can you give the link or post the picture here. I cannot find them on twitter.
> 
> Edit: Found them



It looks good and probably very comfortable. I guess it will be the cheapest 1DD+2BA earphone.


----------



## B9Scrambler

young59 said:


> Can you give the link or post the picture here. I cannot find them on twitter.
> 
> Edit: Found them



Those look great. That little nub at the back makes me think they're going to be shaped more similar to the Kinera H3 than ZST though.


----------



## kokakolia

CoiL said:


> 1) I used brass nozzle from ED9 and did drill-phase nozzle edge into "trompet"-like.
> 2) nozzle length should be slightly shorter with new nozzle and inner diameter should be larger than stock plastic nozzle. Nozzle material plays quite big role @ highs sparklyness.
> Bigger nozzle inner diameter "lets" details through better and evens up FR (bass "pulled back" little) but breathing ports "enforcement" helps to "raise" bass punch/slam littlebit.
> 
> ...



I use my phone (Zuk Z2) or I plug them into my Bose Companion 2 speakers. I might dig up my Nuforce UDAC 2 to see if it actually makes a difference. I have no clue where it is xD. Somewhere in the house? 

I also use New Bee silicone tips. I can't stand foam tips anymore. They just take forever to put in my ear and then they always fall out. 

I will agree that the sound quality on some laptops really sucks. Especially the Dell Inspiron 3000 which I used to own. I only use a desktop now. Something with a B150m Bazooka motherboard from MSI.


----------



## maxxevv

It comes in 4 colours.


----------



## young59

maxxevv said:


> It comes in 4 colours.



Damm after looking at them in black these are using the ZS3 shell or am I the only one seeing the this?


----------



## HiFiChris

Looks more like they decided to copy the iBasso IT03 in terms of design this time.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Seems no matter what design they choose someone is going to $%^& about how it looks like X or Y from another brand.


----------



## HiFiChris

B9Scrambler said:


> Seems no matter what design they choose someone is going to $%^& about how it looks like X or Y from another brand.



Thomas, are you referring to me? 

I am not b!tching about it at all - it's actually quite the opposite, as I also noted in my (German) ZS6 review in the paragraph where I write about the design. What if I told you that I don't even mind that companies such as Superlux and Knowledge Zenith are using designs that are very similar to (more expensive) existing products from other brands, and that I even like that, subjectively, and see it as some sort of "satire" even though I own some of the products that the design is based on?


----------



## Francisk

I'm looking forward to the ZSR after being quite disappointed with the ZS6  KZ...no more ear piercing highs please.


----------



## B9Scrambler

No, it's just this thread in general actually. People ragged on them for taking Ostry's KC06 design with the ED10. They have a passing resemblance at best. If they are using the ZS3 shell or ibasso design, here comes another 10+ pages of moaning about how unoriginal KZ is. Yeah. That's kinda how they roll.


----------



## kokakolia

Francisk said:


> I'm looking forward to the ZSR after being quite disappointed with the ZS6  KZ...no more ear piercing highs please.



It's the KZ house sound


----------



## Francisk

kokakolia said:


> It's the KZ house sound


Well, at least I could enjoy the ZST and ZS5v1 with foam tips...but not the ZS6, even with foam tips. I really was trying very hard to like it but I gave up after modding it with some foam filter stuffed into the foam tips...still no go. I also tried the 75ohms adapter but it sucked the life out of the ZS6...sigh.


----------



## Slater (Nov 1, 2017)

young59 said:


> What I already liking about the design already is that the DD is on the front and the BAs are in the back.So if the BA in the recent ZS5 v2 and ZS6 were causing the treble spike due to being too close and blocking the nozzle this design would help with that issue and if this turns out to be true I am definitely gonna get those.



Where do you see the BAs in the back? Are there other photos that show this better (like the exploded diagrams they like using)?

Also, I'm probably going to pass on this. The ZST was too sharp OOTB for me, and if all they did was add an additional BA then it sounds like it will be unbearable.

I mean, we have at least 2 people completely removing 1 of the BAs from the ZS5 v2 to improve the sound. I think it would have been better to have (2xDD + 1xBA) then (1xDD + 2xBA).

I do like the transparent green shells though.

Hopefully the new ZS3 hybrid reveal will be coming soon :0)


----------



## young59

Slater said:


> Where do you see the BAs in the back?
> 
> Also, I'm probably going to pass on this. The ZST was too sharp OOTB for me, and if all they did was add an additional BA then it sounds like it will be unbearable.
> 
> ...


I don't see them I was saying based on the information that the person posted before me since I could see that the DD was in front I assumed there were BA in the back and there looks to me that there could be space in the back for one or two BA.


----------



## Slater

young59 said:


> I don't see them I was saying based on the information that the person posted before me since I could see that the DD was in front I assumed there were BA in the back and there looks to me that there could be space in the back for one or two BA.



Gotcha.


----------



## Superluc

young59 said:


> Can you give the link or post the picture here. I cannot find them on twitter.
> 
> Edit: Found them


Price ?


----------



## young59

Superluc said:


> Price ?


No idea I got this picture from NICEHCK's twitter and it only had this picture and the description was "ZSR?"


----------



## Superluc

Francisk said:


> Well, at least I could enjoy the ZST and ZS5v1 with foam tips...but not the ZS6, even with foam tips. I really was trying very hard to like it but I gave up after modding it with some foam filter stuffed into the foam tips...still no go. I also tried the 75ohms adapter but it sucked the life out of the ZS6...sigh.


It's a shame. You have try the adapter with or without foam tips ?


----------



## Francisk (Nov 1, 2017)

Superluc said:


> It's a shame. You have try the adapter with or without foam tips ?


With 75ohms adapter on both stock starline and foam tips...sounds much worse than without the 75ohms adapter...lifeless.

Well of course YMMV


----------



## Superluc

Francisk said:


> With 75ohms adapter on both stock starline and foam tips...sounds much worse than without the 75ohms adapter...lifeless.
> 
> Well of course YMMV


On what source ? AMP ?


----------



## CoiL

HiFiChris said:


> Looks more like they decided to copy the iBasso IT03 in terms of design this time.


I hope they are something inbetween actually. They look gorgeous in green! If price is good, I`ll be getting them just for shells, even if they sound crap.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 1, 2017)

kar-re said:


> I got the ZS5 and ZS3, and all in all I'm very pleased. The ZS5 I ordered came as v2 tho.
> One thing that irritates me a bit is that the right monitor of my pair of ZS5s are less sibliant compared to the left one. It's as if I got the right one v1 and the left one v2 LOL!
> It's not really a big problem but after comparing the two ones by muting one and comparing the two ones it's loud and clear. The mid and bass sections sound perfectly normal tho.
> I really enjoy the ZS3s sound signature as well.
> ...


Wildly audible channel imbalance would be a huge red flag to me of a manufacturing defect or damage during shipping.

Start a return, refund, or replacement claim asap imo 

PS: Though you should check if it's a faulty cable, I suppose? Since the ZS3 cable should be compatible too


----------



## Francisk

Superluc said:


> On what source ? AMP ?


DX90 into Chord Mojo and PC into Audio GD NFB11


----------



## Slater

Francisk said:


> Well, at least I could enjoy the ZST and ZS5v1 with foam tips...but not the ZS6, even with foam tips. I really was trying very hard to like it but I gave up after modding it with some foam filter stuffed into the foam tips...still no go. I also tried the 75ohms adapter but it sucked the life out of the ZS6...sigh.



I think the adapter would only benefit lower impedance gear, like the ZS1 v1.

Impedance of ZS5 v2 and ZS6 is already higher due to the built-in crossover.


----------



## vector84

Slater said:


> I think the adapter would only benefit lower impedance gear, like the ZS1 v1.
> 
> Impedance of ZS5 v2 and ZS6 is already higher due to the built-in crossover.


Added resistance EQs the ZS6 in the "right" direction (and the ZS5v1 in the "wrong" direction)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787

Sounds like it might be having an effect on sound texturing that those measurements don't cover though.


----------



## Viber

young59 said:


> Damm after looking at them in black these are using the ZS3 shell or am I the only one seeing the this?



ahhh, well yea i tried to do a comparison:

 

I think the front part (the nozzle side) might be similar, but the back looks like a more orthodox shape.


----------



## kar-re

vector84 said:


> Wildly audible channel imbalance would be a huge red flag to me of a manufacturing defect or damage during shipping.
> 
> Start a return, refund, or replacement claim asap imo
> 
> PS: Though you should check if it's a faulty cable, I suppose? Since the ZS3 cable should be compatible too



Yeah, thanks for the response. I started an support ticket shortly after. I checked with both the silver-plated cable and the SZ3 cable, but none changed the fact that the right one was a bit dampened. And I tried to troubleshoot it plugged into my computer, but to no avail other than to confirm my suspicion that it's something wrong with the driver. Now it's up to GearBest!
The ZS3s soundscape fits me perfectly tho! I had an pair of EPH-100 and they were the bomb. A great replacement!


----------



## Superluc

Francisk said:


> DX90 into Chord Mojo and PC into Audio GD NFB11


https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/mojo/



> Output Impedance: 75m Ohms



Maybe the problem it's here, as hakuzen said to have tested the ZS6 with the adapter on a source with <1 ohm of output impedance.

Have you try it the ZS6, plus the adapter, with the DX90 alone ?


----------



## kokakolia

Francisk said:


> Well, at least I could enjoy the ZST and ZS5v1 with foam tips...but not the ZS6, even with foam tips. I really was trying very hard to like it but I gave up after modding it with some foam filter stuffed into the foam tips...still no go. I also tried the 75ohms adapter but it sucked the life out of the ZS6...sigh.



I just bought myself different earphones from another brand. I originally caught the KZ flu with the ED7.


----------



## fuzun

Is ZS6 that bad?


----------



## vector84

Superluc said:


> https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/mojo/
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Output Impedance: 75mOhms


That's 0.075 Ohms.  Though one source on a quick Google search claims it rises to around 1 ohm at the top of the audio band.


----------



## HungryPanda

The KZ ZS6 is the best KZ iem to date in my opinion


----------



## Slater (Nov 1, 2017)

fuzun said:


> Is ZS6 that bad?



No, it's not that bad as many people make it out to be.

It seems to be about half and half - 50% of people like it, and 50% of people don't like it.

The sticking point is the treble (specifically a peak at 10k). They are quite bright (too bright for some people). In either situation, Comply (genuine or generics) foam tips are pretty much a given.

Even if you are in the camp that *don't* like it, you can easily mod it to your liking in the following different ways:

Folding over a small piece of foam in each nozzle (under the screen but on top of the BA drivers)
Inserting a small piece of foam inside of each ear tip (above the screen)
Doing the Slater foam mod to the BA nozzles
Removing 1 of the BA drivers from the nozzle (done on a ZS5 v2 so far, but no reports yet of it being done on the ZS6 even enough they are very similar IEMs)
Use EQ and cut 10k frequency to your liking (ie 5+dB)
#1 is completely reversible, and is very easy with the only tools needed a safety pin or sewing needle and a pair of tweezers. #1 is a 2/10 on a difficulty scale of 10.
#2 is completely reversible, requires zero tools or opening anything up at al. #2 is a 0/10 on a difficulty scale of 10.
#3 is completely reversible, and is very easy with the only tools needed a safety pin or sewing needle and a pair of tweezers. #3 is a 3/10 on a difficulty scale of 10.
#4 is permanent, and carries the largest risk of screwing something up. #4 is a 7/10 on a difficulty scale of 10.
#5 depends on the ability to adjust EQ with your source, and is a 0/10 on a difficulty scale of 10.

I personally love mine 100% as-is (using foam tips). I agree with HungryPanda - it's easily the best KZ IEM to date, factoring in build quality, sound, driveability, and looks.


----------



## Viber

fuzun said:


> Is ZS6 that bad?



If by "bad" you mean "amazing" then yes.


----------



## Toastybob

I don't know Japanese, but from Google translate this seems to be a report of a ZS6 with "more natural" highs, from someone who has bought multiple units: 
https://mobile.twitter.com/bisonicr/status/925361507042332672

Something about the two pin connector is also different apparently?


----------



## Superluc

vector84 said:


> That's 0.075 Ohms.  Though one source on a quick Google search claims it rises to around 1 ohm at the top of the audio band.


My bad, i have miss read the "m".


----------



## Superluc

Toastybob said:


> this seems to be a report of a ZS6 with "more natural" highs?


The first one to say something about it, in this thread, also say that. Who knows...


----------



## HungryPanda

Well I must be mad as I have the green ZS6 and just had the red delivered. It's all about the look


----------



## Slater

Toastybob said:


> I don't know Japanese, but from Google translate this seems to be a report of a ZS6 with "more natural" highs, from someone who has bought multiple units:
> https://mobile.twitter.com/bisonicr/status/925361507042332672
> 
> Something about the two pin connector is also different apparently?



Hmmm, my Google translate was a bunch of gibberish mumbo jumbo.

I think it did say "2-pin" and "Natural", but the rest was useless junk.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> Well I must be mad as I have the green ZS6 and just had he red delivered. It's all about the look



Swap the backs between the red and green pairs, and you'll have 2 sets of Christmas-themed ZS6!


----------



## HungryPanda

_I am working on Christmas night, you may be on to something_


----------



## Saoshyant

Well finally put a little more effort into getting tracking info for my ZS6, which made it to the US on the 9th, but details are minimal so couldn't even tell you which states it's been in.  I don't know if Gearbest is easy to deal with or not in this respect, but I may be out of luck.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have always had good service from gearbest I'm in the UK


----------



## Toastybob

Slater said:


> Hmmm, my Google translate was a bunch of gibberish mumbo jumbo.
> 
> I think it did say "2-pin" and "Natural", but the rest was useless junk.


Here's what I get:



 

I read their review on their website which included descriptions of 4 different ZS6 units, but didn't really understand the Google translate results there. The one described in the tweet should be newer than the four in the review, if "fifth" is the correct translation.


----------



## Superluc

Toastybob said:


> I read their review on their website which included descriptions of 4 different ZS6 units, but didn't really understand the Google translate results there. The one described in the tweet should be newer than the four in the review, if "fifth" is the correct translation.


It's the first we have heard say that. Others in this thread have tried models with different colours without find any difference between them. 
It bugs me that they add where to buy them...


----------



## Francisk (Nov 1, 2017)

Superluc said:


> https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/mojo/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trust me....no <1 ohm output impedance from any AMP or DAP is going to tame the ZS6's high frequency peaks to an acceptable level for me. I've also tried it with my DX90 and Cayin N3 without going through any external DAC/AMP but still no go. I love my treble but ZS6 treble peak is taking it a little too far for me. I'm sure many here who are immune to treble peaks might love the ZS6 because honestly, other than the the treble peaks, I actually like the rest of the frequencies that's coming out of the ZS6 and the build is surprisingly good too. But damn...I just can't handle those treble peaks from the ZS6.


----------



## AudioObsession

Francisk said:


> Well, at least I could enjoy the ZST and ZS5v1 with foam tips...but not the ZS6, even with foam tips. I really was trying very hard to like it but I gave up after modding it with some foam filter stuffed into the foam tips...still no go. I also tried the 75ohms adapter but it sucked the life out of the ZS6...sigh.



This is why I plan on removing 1 BA from each earphone when my ZS6 arrives..
. 
I couldn't handle the double barrel treble cannons on  my ZS5 V2, so removed 1 BA from each, and I also placed a little foam disc over the nozzles in order to further dampen the remaining treble cannon, and replace the destroyed metal screens..
  
They are one of my favorite sets of earphones now! 

But, I imagine when my ZS6 arrives it will be the same issue.. 
Perhaps you might be able to kill the Z6's BAs by stuffing them with a more dense foam such as Neoprene? 
Or perhaps even stuffing a BA with a small slice of rubber band would kill at least 90% of the awful screaming SsssSCcCchHhhttTttT!!

When I get mine in a few weeks, I'll post the results of some of my experiments.


----------



## Superluc

Francisk said:


> Trust me....no <1 ohm output impedance from any AMP or DAP is going to tame the ZS6's high frequency peaks to an acceptable level for me. I've also tried it with my DX90 and Cayin N3 without going through any external DAC/AMP but still no go. I love my treble but ZS6 treble peak is taking it a little too far for me. I'm sure many here who are immune to treble peaks might love the ZS6 because honestly, other than the the treble peaks, I actually like the rest of the frequencies that's coming out of the ZS6 and the build is surprisingly good too. But damn...I just can't handle those treble peaks from the ZS6.


I was thinking more about the lifeless response with the adapter you have talked about, but i have miss read, so i was thinking about a 75+75 effect, and it's not the case here 

You still haven't try doing some EQ ?


----------



## stryed

The KZ ZS5 nozzles is irritating me because the tips keep getting stuck in my ear. I wonder if it's because they lack the small lip around the end of the nozzle.
Am using KZ blue spirals and a few others....the easiest to come off are the new bee foamies.

Will be carrying a small pin nowadays to fetch them out from now on! Hopefully something that doesn't look like a cotton bud as that would be embarassing in the tube...


----------



## Slater (Nov 2, 2017)

AudioObsession said:


> This is why I plan on removing 1 BA from each earphone when my ZS6 arrives..
> .
> I couldn't handle the double barrel treble cannons on  my ZS5 V2, so removed 1 BA from each, and I also placed a little foam disc over the nozzles in order to further dampen the remaining treble cannon, and replace the destroyed metal screens..
> 
> ...



Instead of removing a BA and risk damaging something, what about sealing 1 of the BA nozzles with a drop of Elmer's or hot glue? That way, the impedance remains the same since the driver is still technically wired up. If it eventually burns itself out due to a pressure buildup, it won't matter.

It would do the same basic thing as removing the BA, without having to disassemble the nozzle and risk messing up the other BA driver. Heck, it's completely reversible by just popping off the glue 'plug'.


----------



## khighly

ZS6 finally fixed? I still haven't picked up a pair. ZS5v1's, no reason to stop using them. They're a good everyday headphone with monster quality, but I'd like something more rugged.


----------



## khighly

AudioObsession said:


> This is why I plan on removing 1 BA from each earphone when my ZS6 arrives..
> .
> I couldn't handle the double barrel treble cannons on  my ZS5 V2, so removed 1 BA from each, and I also placed a little foam disc over the nozzles in order to further dampen the remaining treble cannon, and replace the destroyed metal screens..
> 
> ...




If you desoldered those, why didn't you just add a like a low value 0603 SMD resistor in line to cut it down a bit?


----------



## nappiguan

AudioObsession said:


> This is why I plan on removing 1 BA from each earphone when my ZS6 arrives..
> .
> I couldn't handle the double barrel treble cannons on  my ZS5 V2, so removed 1 BA from each, and I also placed a little foam disc over the nozzles in order to further dampen the remaining treble cannon, and replace the destroyed metal screens..
> 
> ...



Try Mr Clean Magic Eraser.  Works great for vintage orthodynamic damping.


----------



## maxxevv (Nov 1, 2017)

Read the whole review. Its really not hard to read with Google Translate.

The reviewer was merely implying that KZ quality hasn't always completely homogeneous (stemming from experience tracing back to the ZST), hence the decision to get multiple copies from different batches so that he/she can suss out any quality issues from the true nature of the IEM's sound quality.

It was pointed that the treble highs from the balanced armatures were a little 'stinging' out of the box. And that they seemed to settle down after about 100 hours of "ageing" (listening / burning-in).   (Perhaps something people here should try instead of jumping into irreversible mods directly.)

He pointed out some issues with the left/right balance after some 'ageing'. Opened up the cover and realized that there was additional glue on one of them that was clumping the wires together. Did some clean-up and things were good again.



Toastybob said:


> Here's what I get:
> 
> 
> I read their review on their website which included descriptions of 4 different ZS6 units, but didn't really understand the Google translate results there. The one described in the tweet should be newer than the four in the review, if "fifth" is the correct translation.




And for those who want to compare the ZS5v1 versus the ZS5v2, the reviewer has done precisely that in his pages too.

http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55647124.html


----------



## AudioObsession

nappiguan said:


> Try Mr Clean Magic Eraser.  Works great for vintage orthodynamic damping.



Excellent idea!


----------



## AudioObsession

khighly said:


> If you desoldered those, why didn't you just add a like a low value 0603 SMD resistor in line to cut it down a bit?


I didn't desolder them, I just cut the wires.
It was actually a happy accident on the first BA...I broke the wires on accident while removing the nozzle, because I had knocked one of the BAs lose and it fell into the nozzle and was rattling around, so I had to remove the nozzle..
The nozzles are glued down rather tightly, so when it broke loose, one of the BA's was still partly glued to the side of the nozzle.
 At first I thought it wouldn't work anymore, but when I tested it, I liked it and so I did the other one as well.. 
Happy accident. 
They still needed a slight bit of dampening after that so I added the thin foam disk on top.


----------



## Jed1998

Is there actually more than one version of ZS6 or is it just placebo? If I ordered one from the **** store on Ali which version can I hope to get?


----------



## AudioObsession

Slater said:


> Instead of removing a BA and risk damaging something, what about sealing 1 of the BA nozzles with a drop of Elmer's or hot glue? That way, the impedance remains the same since the driver is still technically wired up. If it eventually burns itself out due to a pressure buildup, it won't matter.
> 
> It would do the same basic thing as removing the BA, without having to disassemble the nozzle and risk messing up the other BA driver. Heck, it's completely reversible by just popping off the glue 'plug'.



I like the hot glue idea, although that stuff is a bit difficult to control in such a precision manner. I
plan to do some "less destructive" experiments on my ZS6 when it arrives.. I bought the ZS5 V2 knowing that it was very similar to the ZS6, so I figured why not do the more radical mods to the ZS5 V.2.. But yeah, the ZS6 will be handled in a less destructive manner (at first).. 
But if my experiments don't work as well as I'd like them to, then it's going to be slaughter time!! 
It's either the ZS6 or the 10Khz hair cells inside my cochlea! lol!


----------



## vector84

@AudioObsession would you mind measuring the nozzles of those BAs?

I tossed this out a while back but if the size of the BA nozzle is close enough, might be able to fit some Knowles dampers over them (idea blatantly stolen from Dunu's hatting of their BAs with the fabric core of a Knowles damper )


----------



## AudioObsession

vector84 said:


> @AudioObsession would you mind measuring the nozzles of those BAs?
> 
> I tossed this out a while back but if the size of the BA nozzle is close enough, might be able to fit some Knowles dampers over them (idea blatantly stolen from Dunu's hatting of their BAs with the fabric core of a Knowles damper )



Sure! So you want me to just pinch my calipers onto the outside edges of the BA's nozzle then?


----------



## vector84

AudioObsession said:


> Sure! So you want me to just pinch my calipers onto the outside edges of the BA's nozzle then?


Yup.

Knowles has fabric dampers ("screen" style) with ODs of 1.12mm, 1.37mm and 1.78mm, and then I believe I read that the Dunu technique was the fabric core from a 2.08mm metal shelled damper ("plug" style).  Still going to be a bit of guess work as to what might or might not fit on the KZ nozzle since those are OD dimensions as they're intended to be inserted into a tube, not put around something... but apparently it works


----------



## AudioObsession

vector84 said:


> @AudioObsession would you mind measuring the nozzles of those BAs?
> 
> I tossed this out a while back but if the size of the BA nozzle is close enough, might be able to fit some Knowles dampers over them (idea blatantly stolen from Dunu's hatting of their BAs with the fabric core of a Knowles damper )



Okay, so as I rotate the BA in my caliper's jaws; it changes from 1.39mm to 1.41mm, so I'd say it's okay to estimate it @1.40mm...
Inches are: .054" - .055" We are talking a difference of 1/2 of a thin blond human hair here, so I'm sure if those Knowles dampeners are even close to these measurements they will work just fine.


----------



## Saulo Jonas

Damn! These green ZSR are just beautiful. Like the recent AuGlamour: -even if sound may not match- they got me by the eyes. KZ really knows how to gently open our pockets. There was a picture at Taobao too.

Ah, tks guys who replied a few things about ZS3 and Amps some pages before. The mentioned + silver cable, EDR2 and ATE-S are coming by ''slow boat'' modality.

My purple ES3 (used to be) came last week and they really pleased my ears; Sound appears to be mostly an evolution of ZST (controled punchy bass, clean audible voices, improved instruments separation, same or closer clarity, still confortable after hours). They are good cheap stuff. Tested with Pink Floyd, Airbourne, N.W.A, Bach, Strauss, Vivaldi, Metal. Various genres/artists. 320kbps mp3 or Flac 44/16. Acer Notebook, Xperia Z3 and some Nokia phones.

Well, so much that yesterday a church drummer saw them and asked me about. Words coming and going about headphones, music then he said that never saw the brand before, cuz the IEMs had a good look (ZST, ES3 + W1 Pro at the moment) and he was carrying a white SE215 and a K414P. So I told him to do a uncumpromissed test. Why not? He got an iDevice and twenty minutes later you guess what... the guy simply bought'em. His singer woman stayed with Shure and he enjoying the new ones.

So, for real and kicking hype crap, considering a 40 year old musician opinion (yeah, nah the best argument) our chinese small fellas really reached big brands level? Hehehe
I don't know, but everyday simple things like this always makes me more confident to trust and support their new projects. I may want too much, but my wish now is for the brand realize that they need to stop borrowing game, by some magic fairy, holy bird, God or whatever you could pray for, and think a (different, inovative) proprietary own design, to create identity and impact audio-enthusiasts even more (not only budget-fi market).


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 2, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Knowles has fabric dampers ("screen" style) with ODs of 1.12mm, *1.37mm*


 Boom! 1.37mm sounds perfect.. if anything it will be a slightly tight fit.. Also, as nice as my caliper is they are not as accurate as a micrometer, so you can easily toss out a few .01mm


----------



## vector84 (Nov 2, 2017)

AudioObsession said:


> Boom! 1.37mm sounds perfect.. if anything it will be a slightly tight fit.. Also, as nice as my caliper is they are not as accurate as a micrometer, so you can easily toss out a few .001mm


Well you might be able to fit a 1.37 into _onto_ the nozzle... but...

Actually the Dunu DN-2000J uses a Knowles TWFK with a nozzle diameter of 1.41mm and I would need to go skim through the Dunu thread again to be sure, but I'm pretty sure a few people mentioned success popping the fabric core out of a 2.08mm and that it was the same size as the damper fitted over the TWFK in the Dunu.


Sounds like a recipe for success, but if anyone's going to pull the trigger, should probably double check my memory in the Dunu thread first 


EDIT: When you fail to proofread things...


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 2, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Well you might be able to fit a 1.37 into the nozzle... but...
> 
> Actually the Dunu DN-2000J uses a Knowles TWFK with a nozzle diameter of 1.41mm and I would need to go skim through the Dunu thread again to be sure, but I'm pretty sure a few people mentioned success popping the fabric core out of a 2.08mm and that it was the same size as the damper fitted over the TWFK in the Dunu.
> 
> ...



Hmmm.... Could you post a link to these dampers? I'd like to see what one looks like.. I pictured that they were little caps that fit OVER the BA's nozzle, not something that fit inside.. I wish I could measure the inside diameter of the KZ's BA but it's too small to get anything inside there.. If I had to guess I'd say it's between 1.00mm to 1.15mm ID.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 2, 2017)

AudioObsession said:


> Hmmm.... Could you post a link to these dampers? I'd like to see what one looks like.. I pictured that they were little caps that fit OVER the BA's nozzle, not something that fit inside.. I wish I could measure the inside diameter of the KZ's BA but it's too small to get anything inside there.. If I had to guess I'd say it's between 1.00mm to 1.15mm ID.


http://www.knowles.com/eng/Products/Accessories/Dampers

And looking down the barrel of a Dunu DN-2000J:





https://cymbacavum.com/2015/06/13/gojira-or-how-the-dunu-dn-2000j-changed-my-mind-about-hybrid-iems/

Supposedly that green hat is the inner fabric core of a metal shelled Knowles damper (you can push them out with a toothpick or similar)
(or my memory is awful, I haven't been back to the Dunu thread to double check any of this)


And here's some pics of the other sizes I pulled off Digikey a while back:


vector84 said:


> So I did a bit of digging around and the smaller sized Knowles dampers kinda look like they might be useful, if they happen to be the right size:


----------



## AudioObsession

vector84 said:


> http://www.knowles.com/eng/Products/Accessories/Dampers
> 
> And looking down the barrel of a Dunu DN-2000J:
> 
> ...



Okay, that makes sense seeing it now...
Man, I bet those are SOOOOOOO small! 
I'd be terrified to lose one.
I don't mind doing hack type work on my ZS5V.2 but when my ZS6 get's here I want to find a more elegant way then cut and rip! lol!
Then again, my ZS5 V.2 mutants sound REALLY good now...So it's still very tempting to just rip out the 2 BAs on my 6 when it arrives..


----------



## c4rb0n

AudioObsession said:


> I like the hot glue idea, although that stuff is a bit difficult to control in such a precision manner.



I want to try this mod too haha. Ive got an idea brother, why not use a tuberculin syringe to put some elmers glue inside the BA? I dont have the guts to try this mod yet though haha im quite happy with sir @Slater 's foam mod for now


----------



## vegetaleb

I think KZ should stop increasing its price, I mean all the success of KZ was for iems like ATE which were priced at 10$
Now ZS6 costs like a pair of Sony and is not significantly better.
I am waiting for 11.11 offers to see if the ZS5 will be under 20$ or else I won't buy it.
The build quality is not even fantastic, I saw many reports of broken ZS5 and ZS6 on aliexpress


----------



## HiFiChris

vegetaleb said:


> I think KZ should stop increasing its price, I mean all the success of KZ was for iems like ATE which were priced at 10$



ATE = fixed cables, plastic shells, one dynamic driver per side.
ZS6 = detachable cables, metal shells, two dynamic drivers plus two Balanced Armature drivers per side.

You just cannot expect models like the ZS5 or ZS6 to be priced just as low as their simpler and cheaper to make single-driver IEMs that already are crazy cheap.


----------



## vegetaleb

HiFiChris said:


> ATE = fixed cables, plastic shells, one dynamic driver per side.
> ZS6 = detachable cables, metal shells, two dynamic drivers plus two Balanced Armature drivers per side.
> 
> You just cannot expect models like the ZS5 or ZS6 to be priced just as low as their simpler and cheaper to make single-driver IEMs that already are crazy cheap.



Well they can keep a budget friendly line a la ZS3, no need to build expensive only iems that not everyone want to buy.
They can do both premium ZS5/ZS6 and normal iems priced under 20$


----------



## vector84 (Nov 2, 2017)

vegetaleb said:


> Well they can keep a budget friendly line a la ZS3, no need to build expensive only iems that not everyone want to buy.
> They can do both premium ZS5/ZS6 and normal iems priced under 20$


ZSE, ES3?  Seems to me that's exactly what they're doing... ?

EDIT: Also ZS5s can be had for like $12 if you keep tabs on the Gearbest thread 
And Viber beat me to it


----------



## djmakemynight

vegetaleb said:


> Well they can keep a budget friendly line a la ZS3, no need to build expensive only iems that not everyone want to buy.
> They can do both premium ZS5/ZS6 and normal iems priced under 20$



Fret not. There is always the ZSE and ES3.


----------



## Viber

ZS5 were up for like 13$ not too long ago...that's still cheapo territory


----------



## kiler

Talking about the ZSE, I've done a review on them: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zse.22628/reviews#review-19391

They are nice but in budget terms, I still prefer the ATE sweeter sound more


----------



## vector84 (Nov 2, 2017)

Speaking of the ZSE... inspired by how similarly it measures to my new babies (Veedix NC50) I decided to do a bit of tampering.

Went to slap some tape over the open back, and as I was adjusting said tape, the screens popped right off with the tape. The back vent is actually a tiny little rectangle underneath - roughly 1.5 x 3 mm.
My first thought was to cover about 2/3rds of it with tape - so far so good, but I haven't really put enough time in to form a stronger opinion yet. 

*Fair warning: *After accidentally removing the metal screens off the back of my ZSEs with a little tape, I had to use some adhesive to stick them back on!


Also a quick look back at some of my older tests with them would suggest that replacing the red nylon nozzle screen should also be a move in the "right" direction (for me).
Guess I'll have to spend some time tinkering with them later.


----------



## kokakolia

vegetaleb said:


> I think KZ should stop increasing its price, I mean all the success of KZ was for iems like ATE which were priced at 10$
> Now ZS6 costs like a pair of Sony and is not significantly better.
> I am waiting for 11.11 offers to see if the ZS5 will be under 20$ or else I won't buy it.
> The build quality is not even fantastic, I saw many reports of broken ZS5 and ZS6 on aliexpress



Ehhh...you sort of have a point. There are so many great options for $50 or less. So if you're contemplating a KZ at $30~$40 you're not far from $50. 

The thing is, the ZS3 is looking pretty good at around $12. The reviews seem to say that they don't have the sharp treble that that ZS5 and ZS6 have. 

The ZSE/ATE are also around $10. But they didn't impress me at all. 

Grrr...now I'm curious about the ZS3.


----------



## Viber

kokakolia said:


> Ehhh...you sort of have a point. There are so many great options for $50 or less. So if you're contemplating a KZ at $30~$40 you're not far from $50.
> 
> The thing is, the ZS3 is looking pretty good at around $12. The reviews seem to say that they don't have the sharp treble that that ZS5 and ZS6 have.
> 
> ...




ZS3 are often sold for only 6$ at GB.  They are a different animal than ZS5/ZS6.  
ZS3's strong points are: price, phenomenal isolation,good imaging. I find the ZS5/ZS6 to be a better option overall because of their sound potential with modding\eq.


----------



## kiler

Yeah it is nice to have cheaper options, but when for most of the time you can get something better for just 10$ more, it is worth the added expense


----------



## xrk971

vector84 said:


> Thanks, that's going to take some time to digest, but I think I understand a little better your critique of our critical commentary in regards to coupling caps.
> 
> Seems like it might be tough to find anything in that topology in the budget sector (say under $100 or so?) that could comfortably drive a 4 ohm load without some modifications though?



To drive a 4ohm load is tough in general, but if the load is a high sensitivity IEM, then current (power) requirements are manageable,  The ZS5 is rated at 8ohms I think, and is quite sensitive.  It is driven just fine with a pocket SE Class A amp like the ones I use when properly configured to drive low impedance loads.  To get the $100 price  point, you will have to go the DIY route and assemble it yourself from a kit.


----------



## vector84

xrk971 said:


> To drive a 4ohm load is tough in general, but if the load is a high sensitivity IEM, then current (power) requirements are manageable,  The ZS5 is rated at 8ohms I think, and is quite sensitive.  It is driven just fine with a pocket SE Class A amp like the ones I use when properly configured to drive low impedance loads.  To get the $100 price  point, you will have to go the DIY route and assemble it yourself from a kit.


KZ's specs are pretty dodgy, @hakuzen was coming up with ~4.8 ohms and 99 dB/mW:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1606#post-13808066


----------



## themindfreak

Superluc said:


> Price ?


Based on twitter's post and stuff, its supposed to be 168 chinese yuan.


----------



## Wiljen

Unfortunately, those prices usually about double or triple when it comes to buying from aliexpress and adding shipping


----------



## Ynot1

Speaking of amps supporting kz stuff, how about kz .75cm 2 pin supporting balance?
Several reputable headfi sources are hyping balance amping.


----------



## maxxevv

Wiljen said:


> Unfortunately, those prices usually about double or triple when it comes to buying from aliexpress and adding shipping



Believe you mean buying from TaoBao and shipping separately. From what I've compared, usually for competitive stuff such as electronics in general, its actually cheaper to get from Aliexpress or Gearbest most of the time.  
Its seldom significantly cheaper buying from Taobao directly if you do not have a local China delivery address.


----------



## Superluc

Wiljen said:


> Unfortunately, those prices usually about double or triple when it comes to buying from aliexpress and adding shipping


??

Most items, with a minimal decent price, are sold with free AliExpress Standard Shipping... you normally order it with courier service ?


----------



## Wiljen (Nov 2, 2017)

oh agreed, but what I was referring to was the MSRP in Yuan is rarely what the asking price on Ali ends up being and when shipping is added you can usually bet on double if not a bit more. And, yes depending on price, I do have a tendency to prefer insured shipping.


----------



## DeltaRay (Nov 2, 2017)

Wanted to try my luck and order 2 blue wo mic at gearbest. Guess I lucked out.. so they ran out of v1 stock already. 

Got these in the mail today. My goodness I thought the treble on the v1 was piercing.
These v2 take hi-hats and make them higher-hats. Even on zero volume there’s noisy sound floor. Now I’m considering whether this is a suitable gift for my friends..


----------



## xrk971

Wiljen said:


> Unfortunately, those prices usually about double or triple when it comes to buying from aliexpress and adding shipping



Not sure what you are talking about. Most smaller items on Aliexpress ship for free from China/Singapore.  Only heavy items (like metal amp enclosures) cost a lot and it is still less than you would traditionally pay for DHL express courier of a 10lb box ($35).  This is possible due to asymmetric shipping from East to West made possible by courier airplanes (like DHL) fully loaded with sought-after Western-perishables (gourmet food) for consumption by growing upper-middle class in China.  Once in China, planes are empty and they give sweetheart deals to Ali for flying the stuff back to the West.  If you have ever tried returning an item to China you will know.  Don't bother - it's outrageous.


----------



## kokakolia

DeltaRay said:


> Wanted to try my luck and order 2 blue wo mic at gearbest. Guess they ran out of v1 stock already.
> 
> Got these in the mail today. My goodness I thought the treble on the v1 was piercing.
> These take hi-hats and make them higher hats. Even on zero volume there’s noisy sound floor.


 
Grrrreat...I am waiting for my ZS5 with much anticipation 

I'll definitely destroy one of the BAs if that's the case. There's no point in hurting yourself with piercing highs.


----------



## maxxevv (Nov 2, 2017)

DeltaRay said:


> Wanted to try my luck and order 2 blue wo mic at gearbest. Guess I lucked out.. so they ran out of v1 stock already.
> 
> Got these in the mail today. My goodness I thought the treble on the v1 was piercing.
> These v2 take hi-hats and make them higher-hats. Even on zero volume there’s noisy sound floor. Now I’m considering whether this is a suitable gift for my friends..



Sounds like you do not have a suitable source for the ZS5, as extensively discussed in the pages prior to this.  I have the v2 version too and they are really very good earphones. Personally, I like them better than the v1 which a friend has.  For basis of comparison, I'm using a LG G6 Quad DAC version.


----------



## Wiljen

DeltaRay said:


> Wanted to try my luck and order 2 blue wo mic at gearbest. Guess I lucked out.. so they ran out of v1 stock already.
> 
> Got these in the mail today. My goodness I thought the treble on the v1 was piercing.
> These v2 take hi-hats and make them higher-hats. Even on zero volume there’s noisy sound floor. Now I’m considering whether this is a suitable gift for my friends..



Foams are your friends - try them with a set of Comply tips before you write them off.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 2, 2017)

Taped ZSE: surprisingly balanced for $5 and a couple pieces of tape? or am I just hearing things?

Hopefully someone else feels like taking a *mildly destructive* plunge with a pair to find out


----------



## maxxevv

Wiljen said:


> Foams are your friends - try them with a set of Comply tips before you write them off.



Or let them burn-in for a day or two on Pink Noise at least. The japanese review link I was referring to in the last 2 pages suggests at least 100 hours (for the ZS6), the treble tamed down after that according to the reviewer. 

It was good enough for me after a 12 hour burn-in.


----------



## DeltaRay

Wiljen said:


> Foams are your friends - try them with a set of Comply tips before you write them off.



Yep giving them a go with T400 complys. Doing a left ear v2 right ear v1 now


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> Speaking of the ZSE...
> 
> *Also a quick look back at some of my older tests with them would suggest that replacing the red nylon nozzle screen should also be a move in the "right" direction (for me).*



I always replace those red nylon screens the second I get a KZ IEM with them. I have yet to run across a red-screened IEM where they didn't veil the sound and bloat the bass


----------



## Slater (Nov 2, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> Speaking of amps supporting kz stuff, how about kz .75cm 2 pin supporting balance?
> Several reputable headfi sources are hyping balance amping.



Here's an interesting read from Brooko on balanced amping from the FiiO Q1 v2 thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...-ak4452-20-hours.855282/page-18#post-13823249

It's a debated topic...


----------



## Podster (Nov 2, 2017)

DeltaRay said:


> Wanted to try my luck and order 2 blue wo mic at gearbest. Guess I lucked out.. so they ran out of v1 stock already.
> 
> Got these in the mail today. My goodness I thought the treble on the v1 was piercing.
> These v2 take hi-hats and make them higher-hats. Even on zero volume there’s noisy sound floor. Now I’m considering whether this is a suitable gift for my friends..



If you just put them out on the table the dog would probably like them LOL

OK, I can't tell you how sweet this sub $100 rig sounds but has caused me to reflect on why I buy $200 iem's and $400 DAP's for sure





Delta, is that VE's balanced cable you have on those ZS5's?


----------



## kokakolia

Slater said:


> I always replace those red nylon screens the second I get a KZ IEM with them. I have yet to run across a red-screened IEM where they didn't veil the sound and bloat the bass


 
The red nylon screens just fall off if you sneeze at them LOL.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> I always replace those red nylon screens the second I get a KZ IEM with them. I have yet to run across a red-screened IEM where they didn't veil the sound and bloat the bass


Remove as in completely gone, nothing there now, nothing replacing it? Just to make sure I understand. A pair arrived yesterday with my order of a pair of each of the super bargain ZS5 and ZS6 from the gearbest thread.

PS: did the pricing of the Bluetooth earphones you wanted from that thread ever get straightened out so you could actually get a pair at the bargain price?


----------



## Slater (Nov 2, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> The red nylon screens just fall off if you sneeze at them LOL.





bsoplinger said:


> Remove as in completely gone, nothing there now, nothing replacing it? Just to make sure I understand. A pair arrived yesterday with my order of a pair of each of the super bargain ZS5 and ZS6 from the gearbest thread.



Yeah, they fall off easily for sure. I've had them fall out in my ears before, which is not fun.

As far as replacing them vs removing them completely, it depends. On some IEMs (like the ATE), I go with no screen at all (I clean my ears before every IEM session so wax buildup isn't an issue). On most though, I replace the red nylon screens with the stainless mesh screens (that cost about $0.08 each). The stainless screens are pretty close to transparent from what I can tell.

I still don't know what to think about the screen on the ZS6 (vs replacing with a standard stainless screen).



bsoplinger said:


> PS: did the pricing of the Bluetooth earphones you wanted from that thread ever get straightened out so you could actually get a pair at the bargain price?



The Meizu EP52? Yes, George finally provided a code that worked. But it was at $26 not $19. The EP52 have a much higher wholesale cost than the EP51, so I doubt you'll ever see the EP52 under $20. Still, $26 is a great price for the EP52 though, so I didn't mind.


----------



## Wiljen

Podster said:


> If you just put them out on the table the dog would probably like them LOL
> 
> OK, I can't tell you how sweet this sub $100 rig sounds but has caused me to reflect on why I buy $200 iem's and $400 DAP's for sure



Walnut V2, JDS Labs ultra-short Interconnect
AMP
Aftermarket Zst/Zs5 cable (I bought mine on amazon)
Zs6

Ok - which amp is it?


----------



## Podster (Nov 2, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> Walnut V2, JDS Labs ultra-short Interconnect
> AMP
> Aftermarket Zst/Zs5 cable (I bought mine on amazon)
> Zs6
> ...



Walnut's matching F1 The F1 also has a balanced output too


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> Walnut's matching F1



The F1 is an absolute powerhouse.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> The F1 is an absolute powerhouse.



I concur @B9Scrambler , forgot to update the Bumpers that I got this thing and man do I love it. I'm still mesmerized by all the Treble rousers in here because I have zero treble issues with my ZS5V1's or my ZS6's. What I can't get over is the bass coming off the F1, have been listening to Depeche Modes new Spirit album and bass is tighter than fat aunt Nellies bustier


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> I concur @B9Scrambler , forgot to update the Bumpers that I got this thing and man do I love it. I'm still mesmerized by all the Treble rousers in here because I have zero treble issues with my ZS5V1's or my ZS6's. What I can't get over is the bass coming off the F1, have been listening to Depeche Modes new Spirit album and bass is tighter than fat aunt Nellies bustier



Yeah, it's stupidly good for the price. I need to get my review out soon. Been sitting on it for wayyyy too long, haha.


----------



## Wiljen

That's a new one on me, I hadn't seen anything on it.  For balanced outs at $27 though, not sure how far wrong you can go.


----------



## Wiljen

am I right that the power out is a 3.5mm TRS single ended and the 2.5 is a trrs balanced?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Nov 2, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> am I right that the power out is a 3.5mm TRS single ended and the 2.5 is a trrs balanced?



Yes indeed 

https://penonaudio.com/Walnut-F1

All sorts of specs and whatnot are listed. Beyond my knowledge, haha.


----------



## Wiljen

Yall are killing my wallet - another Penon order and my last two haven't even arrived yet.


----------



## bsoplinger

Wiljen said:


> Yall are killing my wallet - another Penon order and my last two haven't even arrived yet.


Even worse, when I went to Penon they suggested the Ruizu A50, so now I'm thinking perhaps getting both. I've got to stop reading this thread!


----------



## Wiljen

Worse yet, already had the Ruizu A50 from another round of Penon Purchases - Daughter broke it and now replaced with Cayin N3 and protection plan from Amazon so I'm not out another one.


----------



## Wiljen

I really liked the little A50 although it had a lot of the typical Chinese dap firmware gotchas and really would benefit by a bit more horsepower under the hood.  It tended to stall and stutter a bit when you started putting anything bigger than a 32gb card in it.  I still think on the value for dollar basis, the Cayin N3 is pretty hard to top.  Yes, it is a bit more than the Ruizu, nintaus, benjie, agptek players but the feature set is much more complete, the firmware is better, and the company is responsive to fixing bugs in the firmware (Hello Xduoo - hear that?) .   The only players I would put in the same class are the Shanling M2s, the Cowin Plenue D, or the Sony A35 and all of those are $50 more unless you find a good deal.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Yes indeed
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/Walnut-F1
> 
> Also sorts of specs and whatnot are listed. Beyond my knowledge, haha.



Dang B9, wonder if Penon will sell me a set of the Blue Bands. I really like the way the blue looks with the black as opposed to the red ones! So Penon's $.10 cheaper than my AliEx seller and you get blue bands


----------



## AudioObsession

c4rb0n said:


> I want to try this mod too haha. Ive got an idea brother, why not use a tuberculin syringe to put some elmers glue inside the BA? I dont have the guts to try this mod yet though haha im quite happy with sir @Slater 's foam mod for now



I wish I could just precisely mute about 55% of the output of all 4 BAs in the ZS6, but I can't find a way to do that consistently.

So the next best idea is a 100% MUTE (or removal) of 1 BA in each earphone, via glue, hot glue, rubber, neoprene, surgery etc, and then add one of my foam screens to slightly dampen the other BA.


----------



## jpgr

Has anyone tried this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KZ-High-...hash=item3af4a4a263:m:mkiA1W5mvKUWTE91yNvVteQ KZ high Purity Copper cable on a Zs6?
Can a Zs6 be used balanced?


----------



## TheVortex

jpgr said:


> Has anyone tried this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KZ-High-...hash=item3af4a4a263:m:mkiA1W5mvKUWTE91yNvVteQ KZ high Purity Copper cable on a Zs6?
> Can a Zs6 be used balanced?



That is just the newer upgrade cable, that is not a balanced cable


----------



## Wiljen (Nov 2, 2017)

No reason to believe you couldn't use the Zs6 on a balanced cable if you so choose.  @TheVortex is correct though that  the cable displayed is not a balanced cable.  Look at the plug.  All balanced cables with a single 2.5 or 3.5mm male connector are TRRS rather than the TRS type shown.


----------



## TheVortex

There are some balanced cables on Aliexpress if you use that site but for the cost, they are not worth it. 

Sure you could use the ZS6 balanced if you wanted to.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Balanced really isn't the holy grail some people make it out to be. That's the kind of thing you should give a crap about when you've wrung out as much as possible from high-end gear.


----------



## Spelaeus

SomeGuyDude said:


> Balanced really isn't the holy grail some people make it out to be. That's the kind of thing you should give a **** about when you've wrung out as much as possible from high-end gear.


Yeah, I was wondering when running headphones and IEMs balanced became so popular. A few years back I remember mostly just hearing about it from the dudes with the $1,000+ cryo-treated unobtanium custom cables.


----------



## vector84

Slater said:


> I always replace those red nylon screens the second I get a KZ IEM with them. I have yet to run across a red-screened IEM where they didn't veil the sound and bloat the bass


Yeah, I had them off for a bit (those screens actually sound nice on my AWK-009s imo but anyway) but slapped them back on before I put the ZSE away for a while.


Anyhow tinkering with the ZSEs a bit more: nylon screens removed, adjusted back vent tape to about 1/2 covered:


----------



## Wiljen

I think most of the folks going to balanced are doing so as a way to push more power to the earphones, not as a way to improve sound quality.   While true that balanced can sound better than single ended, every last component has to be designed for it for that to happen and it introduces a whole new set of issues if they are not perfect.


----------



## jpgr

jpgr said:


> Has anyone tried this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KZ-High-...hash=item3af4a4a263mkiA1W5mvKUWTE91yNvVteQ KZ high Purity Copper cable on a Zs6?
> Can a Zs6 be used balanced?



Thanks for the replies, I realise I should have written the two questions more clearly.

1. has anyone tried the copper cable in the above ebay listing? 
2. can the Zs6 be used with a balanced cable? (i.e. not the one in the listing)


----------



## HiFiChris

jpgr said:


> 2. can the Zs6 be used with a balanced cable? (i.e. not the one in the listing)



Sure.


----------



## Selenium (Nov 3, 2017)

Finally got my ZS6. So far I like them better than the Dunu Titan 3 I also just got which is considerably more expensive. But maybe it's more that I prefer the sig of the ZS6. And need more brain-in with the Titan.

Edit - They really aren't terribly comfortable though.


----------



## tworule

received my zs6 black... I had to turn down the volume a lot  the bass is there and I cannot hear any treble canon  best kz for me.. I have es3, zs5 v1 and had zs3 briefly before right ear piece stopped working


----------



## Wiljen

This thread has become a great example of what we have all known from the start.  We don't all hear the same things.  I find it interesting that the debate about whether more than one lot of Zs6 ended quite awhile back but yet the debate about piercing highs shows no sign of letting up.   To me, I interpret that as:
1.) We have conclusive evidence that shows 8 and 10k spikes in the Zs6.   These have been confirmed by 2 different testers on multiple samples so we have reason to believe that same pair of spikes exists in every Zs6.
2.) We have plenty of people who find them piercing and not to their liking
3.) We have plenty of people who find them crisp and clear but not piercing.

based on the above, I have to think that while we all hear sounds in the 8-10kHz range unless our hearing is pretty severely damaged, we don't all process them the same way.   I'm reasonably certain this isnt an ear difference, it is a brain difference in that both groups of people hear the same sound, we just interpret it differently.    For all the technical jargon thrown back and forth regarding how hearing works, I think we can all admit that when it comes to understanding how the brain processes the data the ear sends to it, we are woefully under educated.


----------



## maxxevv

Wiljen said:


> This thread has become a great example of what we have all known from the start.  We don't all hear the same things.  I find it interesting that the debate about whether more than one lot of Zs6 ended quite awhile back but yet the debate about piercing highs shows no sign of letting up.   To me, I interpret that as:
> 1.) We have conclusive evidence that shows 8 and 10k spikes in the Zs6.   These have been confirmed by 2 different testers on multiple samples so we have reason to believe that same pair of spikes exists in every Zs6.
> 2.) We have plenty of people who find them piercing and not to their liking
> 3.) We have plenty of people who find them crisp and clear but not piercing.
> ...




You haven't considered the playback source of the different people reporting different things. 

The ZSE and ZS5v2 sound different using different sources based on my own tests. Its not a stretch to say that different people report different things may also be attributed to different playback sources have different characteristics. Thus contributing to the differences in opinion on the ZS6 either. 

And a lot of people seem to jump to conclusions on the sound characteristics without giving their earphones ( whichever phone and model that may be, not just KZ) sufficient time to bed-in. 
I would highly recommend downloading a pink noise track and let it do the burn-in on infinite loop playback for at least overnight before making up your minds on whether the sound signature is to your liking. Its just setting it to a listening volume and let it play be it a cheap MP3 player or the laptop jack, while you sleep or do your other stuff.  

There's no "brain-burn" so to speak when you do it that way.  

Listen to them again after the overnight session and see if you like them or not and them decide.  The bass came a little 'wooly / loose' for both the ZSE and ZS5v5 OOTB, they both tightened up after a few short hours of burn-in.  

Patience is often gold in this.


----------



## Wiljen

maxxevv said:


> You haven't considered the playback source of the different people reporting different things.
> 
> The ZSE and ZS5v2 sound different using different sources based on my own tests. Its not a stretch to say that different people report different things may also be attributed to different playback sources have different characteristics. Thus contributing to the differences in opinion on the ZS6 either.
> 
> ...



Good Point, some of the differences may be in style of music being listened to and in source used.  Not sure that accounts for 100% of it, but you are right that it certainly does account for some percentage.


----------



## tvou88

ZS5, black box, ZS5 white box. Both came with pronounced highs out of the box. Both are V.2. ZS6 green, same thing. BUT.. with 40-50 hours playing in high volume, treble satle down in a big way. Only diference between 5 and 6 is that 6 has more definition in bass. For my ears I found mids beter on 5s. Everithing other is the same. 

Tested on:
Denon high end receiver, SACD Player, ProJect turntable, ortofon, stanton, shure.
SMSL SAP VI, laptop, Oppo player
Native instruments traktor dj 2, laptop
flacs (pop, rock, house, chill, jazz), blue note and chesky cds, and records

Just give them time! Treble will come down for shure.


----------



## tworule (Nov 3, 2017)

I have ak10. can sabaj da2 or fiio q1 mk2 be an improvement on sound quality on my iphone 5s? I want a portable DAC/amp or just amp with my iphone. I am so noob  I have es3, zs5 v1 and zs6. zs5 makes crackling noises and distortion when I use it iwth my ak10 dac/amp. so any input is appreciated .my budget is max 100 usd. Thanks a lot  I listen to rock, indie and metal music occasionally and I like bass  . I listen to streaming music mostly... spotify-deezeer.. I dont have much flac files..


----------



## vector84 (Nov 3, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> You haven't considered the playback source of the different people reporting different things.
> 
> The ZSE and ZS5v2 sound different using different sources based on my own tests. Its not a stretch to say that different people report different things may also be attributed to different playback sources have different characteristics. Thus contributing to the differences in opinion on the ZS6 either.
> 
> ...


I don't think you understand how brain burn-in works.

The biggest changes from "brain burn-in" take place while you sleep.  So you are in fact doing the complete opposite of what you think.


FWIW, if you really wanted to mitigate brain burn-in, you'd need to spend several weeks not listening to the IEMs you're burning in *at all, completely untouched.
*
And mind you I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the process, just the conclusion that you're mitigating brain burn-in.


----------



## Podster (Nov 3, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> I think most of the folks going to balanced are doing so as a way to push more power to the earphones, not as a way to improve sound quality.   While true that balanced can sound better than single ended, every last component has to be designed for it for that to happen and it introduces a whole new set of issues if they are not perfect.



Yes and no, balanced actually allows you to run at lower volumes because energy/power transfer is easier over balanced cables. I'm not even sure if most could tell a difference with easy to drive iem's but as you say in the end some want to test that and get the last little bit out of their rigs.

@TheVortex is correct, you can find balanced cables for the ZS6 on AliEx and I think I saw one as low as $22 but that is half the price of the ZS6 in the first place and once again not sure if that is a good spend or not. Up to the individual I guess.

@jpgr , I have that cable coming any minute, AliEx seller says it's at my local USPS. Want to see how it performs in comparison to the braided one I have on them now

@Wiljen , all freq. ranges aside it's a know fact as we age many become almost intolerant to high pitch freq's and can really just find music in the bass rejoin. Fortunately for me I still love my Mids and Highs and as I've mentioned probably hundreds of times out here the music lives in the midrange for my ears


----------



## kokakolia (Nov 3, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> You haven't considered the playback source of the different people reporting different things.
> 
> The ZSE and ZS5v2 sound different using different sources based on my own tests. Its not a stretch to say that different people report different things may also be attributed to different playback sources have different characteristics. Thus contributing to the differences in opinion on the ZS6 either.
> 
> ...



IMO, a good (portable) earphone should sound good on whatever you use it on. Well, with the exception of a Dell laptop. These things sound like garbage but that's besides the point.

With this post, it sounds like you are stubborn in trying to get the most out of your KZs and (hopefully) appreciate them.

I suppose that modding is an aspect of that and that can be very fun.

But for an average consumer like me, I just want good earphones. And it's getting frustrating to hear other people say "you're doing it wrong, you need to do this, you need to get that". I mean, getting a good audio source is an expensive journey. And I know very well that other earphones I own sound good on my phone, so why shouldn't the KZ? If anything, that's a huge negative to have that "source dependancy". You totally need a $100 DAC to make your $7 earphones shine.


----------



## eaglesgift

Wiljen said:


> This thread has become a great example of what we have all known from the start.  We don't all hear the same things.  I find it interesting that the debate about whether more than one lot of Zs6 ended quite awhile back but yet the debate about piercing highs shows no sign of letting up.   To me, I interpret that as:
> 1.) We have conclusive evidence that shows 8 and 10k spikes in the Zs6.   These have been confirmed by 2 different testers on multiple samples so we have reason to believe that same pair of spikes exists in every Zs6.
> 2.) We have plenty of people who find them piercing and not to their liking
> 3.) We have plenty of people who find them crisp and clear but not piercing.
> ...


Who's tested multiple samples and how many did they test? I only ask because I'm doubtful that anybody has bought dozens of the same earphone and 2 or 3 is statistically insignificant.


----------



## Mellowship

SomeGuyDude said:


> Balanced really isn't the holy grail some people make it out to be. That's the kind of thing you should give a **** about when you've wrung out as much as possible from high-end gear.


Yes... considering most balanced options in the portable market are not truly balanced, hence snakeoil with the "balanced" word on it. A truly balanced system starts in the DAC circuitry and ends in each transducer. And even when well implemented, it doesn't mean the sound will be of a better "quality", as it only resolves issues around quantity and noise.


----------



## maxxevv

kokakolia said:


> IMO, a good (portable) earphone should sound good on whatever you use it on. Well, with the exception of a Dell laptop. These things sound like garbage but that's besides the point.
> 
> With this post, it sounds like you are stubborn in trying to get the most out of your KZs and (hopefully) appreciate them.
> 
> ...



If the earphones you're listening to sound the same on every source your use, then that earphone obviously does not have the resolution to resolve the detail differences. Unless of course you're listening to 48kbps MP3, perhaps you won't the differences then. 

Point is, this is a hobby, do what you must to get the best out of your money and understand what you have at hand. There is no such thing as a good quality earphone that sounds good and the same regardless of source. Try paying US$2000/- for whatever you can get out of IEMS and say the same thing, if you can, truthfully. 

Some DAC sources are "warmer" and some are "brighter". They each will have their leanings towards what matches up best. Go spend some time on the headphone threads on Head-fi and other forum boards and see why amplifier matching is such an obsession. 

If you READ AGAIN what I wrote, you will see that I refer to any (ear)phone of any brand.  Its nothing to do with KZ. So get that out of your head for once. 

If you're ears are not happy with that after trying burn-in,  so be it, it just means that your ears are not happy buddies with the earphones.  But if you never even bother to try, then you shouldn't even be bothered to try new earphones, just buy 100 copies of what you're happy with now and use them till infinity.


----------



## maxxevv

vector84 said:


> I don't think you understand how brain burn-in works.
> 
> The biggest changes from "brain burn-in" take place while you sleep.  So you are in fact doing the complete opposite of what you think.
> 
> ...



Please define your definition of "brain- burn" for starters.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 3, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> Please define your definition of "brain- burn" for starters.


Without using naughty words that will cause trouble around here?  Something like changes you alone perceive unrelated to contrast effects.


Or to be a bit less nebulous about it, burn-in has a basis in physics, brain burn-in has a basis in psychoacoustics.  Separating them is pretty much impossible without rigorous testing imo.


----------



## salamero

tworule said:


> I have ak10. can sabaj da2 or fiio q1 mk2 be an improvement on sound quality on my iphone 5s? I want a portable DAC/amp or just amp with my iphone. I am so noob  I have es3, zs5 v1 and zs6. zs5 makes crackling noises and distortion when I use it iwth my ak10 dac/amp. so any input is appreciated .my budget is max 100 usd. Thanks a lot  I listen to rock, indie and metal music occasionally and I like bass  . I listen to streaming music mostly... spotify-deezeer.. I dont have much flac files..


+1


----------



## Wiljen

eaglesgift said:


> Who's tested multiple samples and how many did they test? I only ask because I'm doubtful that anybody has bought dozens of the same earphone and 2 or 3 is statistically insignificant.



@hakuzen and @HiFiChris both tested more than one sample from different lots, colors, and distribution points purchased over the span of several weeks.  While not statistically a valid sample size, if you make some assumptions about the number of production lots, it is enough to draw some conclusions.


----------



## kokakolia

maxxevv said:


> If the earphones you're listening to sound the same on every source your use, then that earphone obviously does not have the resolution to resolve the detail differences. Unless of course you're listening to 48kbps MP3, perhaps you won't the differences then.
> 
> Point is, this is a hobby, do what you must to get the best out of your money and understand what you have at hand. There is no such thing as a good quality earphone that sounds good and the same regardless of source. Try paying US$2000/- for whatever you can get out of IEMS and say the same thing, if you can, truthfully.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm not happy at all with the ZSE and ATE. I'm slightly upset that I spent money on those. I finally got something good after spending $100. I could have probably been just as happy with Xiaomi Hybrids for less $. But I just wanted to be sure that I got something good. 

I just notice that people start blaming the source when their headphones don't sound good.


----------



## vector84

kokakolia said:


> Yeah, I'm not happy at all with the ZSE and ATE. I'm slightly upset that I spent money on those. I finally got something good after spending $100. I could have probably been just as happy with Xiaomi Hybrids for less $. But I just wanted to be sure that I got something good.


Are you unhappy enough with those ZSEs to try a little taping? 


> I just notice that people start blaming the source when their headphones don't sound good.


In fairness... sometimes source matching is a serious issue... even if it does get tossed around far too much at times.


----------



## vector84

maxxevv said:


> You haven't considered the playback source of the different people reporting different things.
> 
> The ZSE and ZS5v2 sound different using different sources based on my own tests. Its not a stretch to say that different people report different things may also be attributed to different playback sources have different characteristics. Thus contributing to the differences in opinion on the ZS6 either.
> 
> ...


To be clear, I think this is great advice on the basis of listening enjoyment.

I just take issue with the idea that you're mitigating brain burn-in.  Doing "something" to them while you sleep between listening sessions is certainly not going to mitigate brain burn-in, rather it should accelerate the process, hence being a great tool for enjoyment.


----------



## Wiljen

kokakolia said:


> IMO, a good (portable) earphone should sound good on whatever you use it on. Well, with the exception of a Dell laptop. These things sound like garbage but that's besides the point.



I am sure by now you have caught enough crap about the fact that source matching is part of picking gear and how some sources are more revealing than others etc....    I do think your original point is worth defending.  I would point out that the original post said " a good headphone should sound good".  It didn't say should sound exactly the same.    He also states "For the Average Consumer like Me".  I think within the realm of average consumer gear, we can safely say that most headphones are going to be somewhere at or below 32Ohm for in-ears and 50 Ohm for on-ear designs.  When I have wanted a higher-impedance can, I had to go looking for it and it wasn't something I could grab off the shelf at Best Buy or the like.     With that in mind, it would make sense that DAPs in the same category of consumer products would be modeled based on headphones in that same 16-50 Ohm range which all but removes source matching from the discussion as we have now narrowed the playing field considerably.

I am sure there are exceptions to this, but the vast majority of products fall into this category and certainly with the KZ line.  The reason the Zs5v1 made such a big splash with its very low impedance was that it was so different than what everyone's expectation was based on everything we have seen to date.   With the exception of the Zs5, I haven't seen any Kz product that wasn't between 16 and 32 Ohm and thus source matching for all the Kz products should be pretty straight forward.


----------



## djmakemynight

I came to head-fi looking for cheaper alternatives. When I found this thread, it felt like I struck gold. 

Started out with the ATR and before I knew it, I have half a dozen KZ IEMs. Telling myself I need to stop on this KZ addiction, I decided to read other threads. Ended up with more IEMs..

I guess such is the life of a head-fier.. 

To be continued...

p.s. I forgot to put on my IEMs when writing this.


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> You haven't considered the playback source of the different people reporting different things.
> 
> The ZSE and ZS5v2 sound different using different sources based on my own tests. Its not a stretch to say that different people report different things may also be attributed to different playback sources have different characteristics. Thus contributing to the differences in opinion on the ZS6 either.
> 
> ...



Good point about the source.

We already know that impedance has an impact on frequencies, but here’s an example of odd quirks with 1 dac/source vs others doing weird things with certain frequencies (in @waveriderhawaii case, a dropout at 16k using his phone).

Edit: Sorry, I forgot the link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-860#post-13825759


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2017)

tvou88 said:


> ZS5, black box, ZS5 white box. Both came with pronounced highs out of the box. Both are V.2. ZS6 green, same thing. BUT.. with 40-50 hours playing in high volume, treble satle down in a big way. Only diference between 5 and 6 is that 6 has more definition in bass. For my ears I found mids beter on 5s. Everithing other is the same.
> 
> Tested on:
> Denon high end receiver, SACD Player, ProJect turntable, ortofon, stanton, shure.
> ...



Funny you should mention the bass definition on the ZS6 vs ZS5. I was just thinking about that yesterday (because my ZS5 v2 arrived). I was expecting the ZS5 v2 to sound nearly identical to the ZS6, so I was surprised that the ZS6 had a noticeable difference in bass.

Well, I ran across this photo a few days ago that has the ZS5 v1, ZS5 v2, and ZS6 all lined up. And low and behold you can see that the inside vent (ie the 'bass vent') is about 50% smaller on the ZS6 than on both the ZS5 v1 and ZS5 v2. (Click photo for larger view)



I had already tested sealing my ZS5 v1's vent hole with tape in the past, and didn't like the change at all (the bass became bloated and introduced driver flex). I went back today and redid the tape mod, this time only covering 1/2 of the hole with tape. Low and behold, there was the bass improvement I was hoping for! The bass sounds exactly like the ZS6 now. I liked it so much, I did it to both of my ZS5s (v1 and v2).

I assume micropore tape could also be used, but I wanted more control over the exact size of the vent hole (to exactly match the ZS6 hole). Micropore tape is porous, but it's anyone's guess what the surface area of the hole ends up being in the end.


----------



## vector84

Wiljen said:


> With the exception of the Zs5, I haven't seen any Kz product that wasn't between 16 and 32 Ohm and thus source matching for all the Kz products should be pretty straight forward.


ZSE, ES3: 8 ohms

Also 3dB of roll-off is the industry standard for entirely inaudible to the average listener.  But the average head-fi'er is not the average listener.


----------



## Wiljen

vector84 said:


> ZSE, ES3: 8 ohms
> 
> Also 3dB of roll-off is the industry standard for entirely inaudible to the average listener.  But the average head-fi'er is not the average listener.




Learn something new every day, I thought the ES3 was 16 Ohm.  Don't have the ZSE so cant speak to that one.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Funny you should mention the bass definition on the ZS6 vs ZS5. I was just thinking about that yesterday (because my ZS5 v2 arrived). I was expecting the ZS5 v2 to sound nearly identical to the ZS6, so I was surprised that the ZS6 had a noticeable difference in bass.
> 
> Well, I ran across this photo a few days ago that has the ZS5 v1, ZS5 v2, and ZS6 all lined up. And low and behold you can see that the inside vent (ie the 'bass vent') is about 50% smaller on the ZS6 than on both the ZS5 v1 and ZS5 v2. (Click photo for larger view)
> 
> ...



Good call @Slater , I've never thought once to compare those bass ports! Might solve the highs for some people because if your bass is not crisp and precise it adds to any peakiness IMO Going to try it as I've not put my ZS5's back in since getting my ZS6's


----------



## Wiljen

interesting to me that the Zs6 in that picture has molded in pillars for the BAs to center on, while the ZS5 has nothing positioning the ba in the nozzle.   That certainly suggests that there never was a Zs6v1 in the plan with the same drivers as the early Zs5 as those pillars would make it impossible to position the single ba against the wall as shown.


----------



## vector84

Wiljen said:


> interesting to me that the Zs6 in that picture has molded in pillars for the BAs to center on, while the ZS5 has nothing positioning the ba in the nozzle.   That certainly suggests that there never was a Zs6v1 in the plan with the same drivers as the early Zs5 as those pillars would make it impossible to position the single ba against the wall as shown.


It's difficult to make out in that picture because they left all the gluey mess, but the ZS5v1 also has a flattened ledge that the BA is adhered to in the same position as the molded pillar of the ZS6.

But the idea that the ZS6 was going to be configured differently comes from the internals which still have a cutout for a missing buried BA.


----------



## HungryPanda

@Slater I'll give this a try for sure


----------



## wastan

Has anyone verified that KZ has been using the same BAs through the entire run of ZS5 versions?


----------



## Slater

eaglesgift said:


> Who's tested multiple samples and how many did they test? I only ask because I'm doubtful that anybody has bought dozens of the same earphone and 2 or 3 is statistically insignificant.





Wiljen said:


> @hakuzen and @HiFiChris both tested more than one sample from different lots, colors, and distribution points purchased over the span of several weeks.  While not statistically a valid sample size, if you make some assumptions about the number of production lots, it is enough to draw some conclusions.



The Japanese guy linked in this @Toastybob post bought (4) ZS6 alone, just to make sure there were no sonic differences between them. Who knows how many ZS5v1 and ZS5 v2 he bought:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1634#post-13822380

Translated version summaries and interpretations here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1635#post-13822920
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1635#post-13822477


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## vector84 (Nov 3, 2017)

wastan said:


> Has anyone verified that KZ has been using the same BAs through the entire run of ZS5 versions?


I'm pretty sure the early disassemblies done on ZS5v1 confirmed KZ's internal specs: a BA marked 1205 (don't know if it was marked KZ) in the nozzle, and a KZ 30095 in the body.
The ZS5v2 / ZS6 contain two KZ 30095s

Annoyingly most of the original teardown videos have been taken down though.


----------



## Podster

[QUOTE="vector84, post: But the idea that the ZS6 was going to be configured differently comes from the internals which still have a cutout for a missing buried BA.[/QUOTE]

What, there's a missing or buried BA jkjk LOL


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2017)

Podster said:


> Good call @Slater , I've never thought once to compare those bass ports! Might solve the highs for some people because if your bass is not crisp and precise it adds to any peakiness IMO Going to try it as I've not put my ZS5's back in since getting my ZS6's





HungryPanda said:


> @Slater I'll give this a try for sure



1 other mod which I haven't done yet but plan to is removing the tape inside the ZS5 (both versions). They omitted the tape in the ZS6, and I remember at least 1 HF user (@ReBreaker) had removed this tape and commented about how it made improvements (specifically, improving the recessed mids and making vocals more natural).

*Update:* _Here's @ReBreaker's post (a 1st time member too - dude has some nice skills I'd like to see more of his mod work/ideas around here): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1457#post-13734048_

I always thought the tape was there to prevent the wires from shorting out against the internal pins (solder joints) of the 2-pin connector. But the ZS6 has no such tape, and the internal wiring and spacing between components is basically the same.

Therefore, the tape is specifically placed over the driver/magnet vent of the smaller 6.8mm (midrange) driver to seal it off (recessing the mids to a more v-shaped tune).

Here's you can see the tape between all 3 versions (click for larger view):

_*Note:*_ He also vented the rear cover, but the ZS5 already has numerous vents along the shell seam (absent in the ZS6). So while this change certainly contributed to some of the changes he heard, I think the tape removal allowing that midrange driver to breathe contributed the lion's share of the midrange differences.


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2017)

Podster said:


> What, there's a missing or buried BA jkjk LOL



haha, don't feed the bears man LOL


----------



## vector84

Slater said:


> 1 other mod which I haven't done yet but plan to is removing the tape inside the ZS5 (both versions). They omitted the tape in the ZS6, and I remember at least 1 HF user had removed this tape and commented about how it made improvements.
> 
> I always thought the tape was there to prevent shorting out against the (2) pin connector. But the ZS6 has no such tape, and the internal wiring and spacing between components is basically the same.
> 
> ...


That tape was there in some of the earliest shots of the ZS6 internals too (from pre-production possibly?):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1401#post-13711603


----------



## Podster (Nov 3, 2017)

True, I might start a cake run

Here, let me be the first! "I like cake" or "You got cake man"

In the mean time I can't say just yet if the balanced is better but these Mee MDX's sure sound sweet on the Walnut stack






Or the "Icy Nutter Butters"



 

Or maybe even the "A4 WalNutz"


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> That tape was there in some of the earliest shots of the ZS6 internals too (from pre-production possibly?):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1401#post-13711603



Nice catch! I forgot all about those early photos! They were like the 1st photos we saw.


----------



## randomnin

I have another potentially controversial skeptic's question - what's up with Chinese IEMs and vents? It's always a disadvantage (isolation) and the big Western names in audio usually don't have unnecessary holes in the casings of their IEMs, even old models. A lack in technological capabilities remedied by holes? Or am I missing something important?


----------



## vector84 (Nov 3, 2017)

randomnin said:


> I have another potentially controversial skeptic's question - what's up with Chinese IEMs and vents? It's always a disadvantage (isolation) and the big Western names in audio usually don't have unnecessary holes in the casings of their IEMs, even old models. A lack in technological capabilities remedied by holes? Or am I missing something important?


I'm genuinely a bit confused by this - ventless setups for some pure BA setups (ones that don't require venting) are a thing certainly, but vents are used extensively to tune DDs and highly specialized venting setups seem to be one of the big things going on in the top end of the market right now... ?

And besides their necessity for tuning, mitigating driver flex in a DD without any vents is pretty difficult, even for the "big boys".


Also what do you mean by "unneccessary" - and how can something tuning related possibly be "unnecessary" ?

I mean, it's like asking "why are open backed headphones a thing" ... just ... what?


----------



## randomnin

vector84 said:


> I'm genuinely a bit confused by this - ventless setups for some pure BA setups (ones that don't require venting) are a thing certainly, but vents are used extensively to tune DDs and highly specialized venting setups seem to be one of the big things going on in the top end of the market right now... ?
> 
> And besides their necessity for tuning, mitigating driver flex in a DD without any vents is pretty difficult, even for the "big boys".
> 
> ...


Shure's SE215 and SE102 are dynamic and don't have vents, if I'm not mistaking. And they are unnecessary, because I've heard dynamics with no vents that sound excellent and while vented ones are also great, they still tend to have worse isolation. Therefore I find vents to be an unnecessary con.


----------



## vector84

randomnin said:


> Shure's SE215 and SE102 are dynamic and don't have vents, if I'm not mistaking. And they are unnecessary, because I've heard dynamics with no vents that sound excellent and while vented ones are also great, they still tend to have worse isolation. Therefore I find vents to be an unnecessary con.


This is exactly where my confusion lies: those two products are explicitly designed with this as a distinguishing feature.  They wouldn't make very good stage monitors if they let in a ton of external noise, now would they?  How then is that representative of the market as a whole?

Isolation is even a con for some use cases - so while it may be a con for you, generalizing that as a requirement for all IEMs is just confusing.


----------



## randomnin (Nov 3, 2017)

Hmm, yes, there are rare cases where isolation is a problem, but the KZ's lineup or the Chinese IEM market in general doesn't provide very many acceptably sounding, un-vented models. If any at all. That begs the question - why? And the immediate answer I had was - because they don't know how. And that's what the unpleasant discussion I wished to spark is all about


----------



## vector84 (Nov 3, 2017)

randomnin said:


> Hmm, yes, there are rare cases where isolation is a problem


Some people actually want to hear their crying babies,  or not get hit by a bus. 


> but the KZ's lineup or the Chinese IEM market in general doesn't provide very many acceptably sounding, un-vented models. If any at all. That begs the question - why? And the immediate answer I had was - because they don't know how. And that's what the unpleasant discussion I wished to spark is all about


You are likely correct that they don't know how to do it - but then again, I still don't understand who else does outside of a few specific configurations that are, at least by appearances, fairly limiting in nature, or inclusive of highly specialized patented technology.

I remain utterly confused.


----------



## randomnin

vector84 said:


> Some people actually want to hear their crying babies,  or not get hit by a bus.
> 
> You are likely correct that they don't know how to do it - but then again, I still don't understand who else does outside of a few specific configurations that are, at least by appearances, fairly limiting in nature, or inclusive of highly specialized patented technology.
> 
> I remain utterly confused.


The isolation is still no better than 20-30dB - it blocks a PC of average loudness and a ticking clock right over the user's head, with no music on, of course, but that's about it. If you're being addressed to, you'll hear it. Even with music on at average volume you'll hear people. And you shouldn't listen to music when on the street at all. I never do that, because it's both unsafe and less enjoyable. The biggest plus with good isolation is that you can listen at lower volumes, extending listening times and reducing hearing damage risks. From where I stand there are almost no negatives and a lot of pluses to having good isolation.

On a more general note and to further clear your confusion as to my motives and opinions, I'd like to say that I can't agree with the idea that Chi-Fi is or has been rapidly developing, which is a prevalent thought among Chi-Fi adherents. That's an opinion I've formed after owning about a dozen well-rated Chinese IEMs and few old (models released 10 years ago on average) IEMs of Western make. As for proof, well, firstly, Chi-Fi is unreliable, it usually develops technical problems in a few months or a year. Secondly, the isolation issue, that I already elaborated on earlier in my rant. Thirdly, Chi-Fi makers pay no attention to making their frequency response graphs decent (KZ ZST vs. SE 102).
Rounding it all up, I think that there's a lot of marketing and an echo chamber feel in the Chi-Fi threads here. My experience is that cheap Chi-Fi sounds no better or worse than decade old products from acclaimed makers, not to mention that it's less reliable and refined. So as an alternative to buying Chi-Fi, I'd like to suggest buying old and/or used Western products. The price is similar, but I've found the quality to be better on all measures (bought SE 102 for 10 bucks - isolation as good as ZS3, comfort better than ZS3, sounds better than Urbanfun Hybrid and **** 4in1. Now waiting for Westone 1 to arrive).


----------



## eaglesgift (Nov 3, 2017)

"You shouldn't listen to music when on the street at all"? You live a very rigid life....

And aren't Shure earphones made in China (or Mexico)?


----------



## vector84

randomnin said:


> Thirdly, Chi-Fi makers pay no attention to making their frequency response graphs decent (KZ ZST vs. SE 102).


Umm... that's an interesting example you picked, since the ZST hits way closer to a Harman target than the SE102...


----------



## Tinesife

Hello, is ZS5 bad? Some say it has a lot of sibilance, but is it good for mid-high lover? I resell KZ for fun and I have a ZS6 (to replace my dead Co-donguri Shizuku) and I think ZS6 isn't bad at all.  My friend bought one ZS5 from me but I haven't tested them and I haven't checked if it was v1 or v2.


----------



## djmakemynight

randomnin said:


> The isolation is still no better than 20-30dB - it blocks a PC of average loudness and a ticking clock right over the user's head, with no music on, of course, but that's about it. If you're being addressed to, you'll hear it. Even with music on at average volume you'll hear people. And you shouldn't listen to music when on the street at all. I never do that, because it's both unsafe and less enjoyable. The biggest plus with good isolation is that you can listen at lower volumes, extending listening times and reducing hearing damage risks. From where I stand there are almost no negatives and a lot of pluses to having good isolation.
> 
> On a more general note and to further clear your confusion as to my motives and opinions, I'd like to say that I can't agree with the idea that Chi-Fi is or has been rapidly developing, which is a prevalent thought among Chi-Fi adherents. That's an opinion I've formed after owning about a dozen well-rated Chinese IEMs and few old (models released 10 years ago on average) IEMs of Western make. As for proof, well, firstly, Chi-Fi is unreliable, it usually develops technical problems in a few months or a year. Secondly, the isolation issue, that I already elaborated on earlier in my rant. Thirdly, Chi-Fi makers pay no attention to making their frequency response graphs decent (KZ ZST vs. SE 102).
> Rounding it all up, I think that there's a lot of marketing and an echo chamber feel in the Chi-Fi threads here. My experience is that cheap Chi-Fi sounds no better or worse than decade old products from acclaimed makers, not to mention that it's less reliable and refined. So as an alternative to buying Chi-Fi, I'd like to suggest buying old and/or used Western products. The price is similar, but I've found the quality to be better on all measures (bought SE 102 for 10 bucks - isolation as good as ZS3, comfort better than ZS3, sounds better than Urbanfun Hybrid and **** 4in1. Now waiting for Westone 1 to arrive).



Spot on, I totally agree on your complaints. Chinese IEMs are unreliable in QC, they are outclassed by Shure and many a times, the marketing data is also inaccurate. They are totally valid observations.

However, at those prices, I don't know what more to expect really. If any Chinese IEM is advertised as giants killer, it had better be named Jack.

Yeah, we can buy used/old but how many used SE102 are there, much less 10 bucks? Let's not even talk about the condition of the item, worldwide shipping or payment protection.Personally, I am not a fan of used IEMs due to hygiene concerns but this is just me.

Nonetheless, you got yourself a fantastic deal and I am glad that you found your piece of audio haven.

Afterall, we are here to seek audio bliss, no?


----------



## RomStar (Nov 4, 2017)

randomnin said:


> As for proof, well, firstly, Chi-Fi is unreliable, it usually develops technical problems in a few months or a year. Secondly, the isolation issue, that I already elaborated on earlier in my rant


Yep I completely agree. My first pair of Ate had channel imbalance and my swing today that came had a crack on the shell. QC is ugly in my opinion. In fact that's why I hated the ATE and for the longest time felt like it was over hyped and any sensible person should know it. But however.... After more time this is when my opinion will change dramatically



randomnin said:


> Rounding it all up, I think that there's a lot of marketing and an echo chamber feel in the Chi-Fi threads here. My experience is that cheap Chi-Fi sounds no better or worse than decade old products from acclaimed makers, not to mention that it's less reliable and refined. So as an alternative to buying Chi-Fi, I'd like to suggest buying old and/or used Western products. The price is similar, but I've found the quality to be better on all measures (bought SE 102 for 10 bucks - isolation as good as ZS3, comfort better than ZS3, sounds better than Urbanfun Hybrid and **** 4in1. Now waiting for Westone 1 to arrive).



OK, now I will completely disagree here. I myself own Sennheiser Momentum In ear. Had a pair of Beats solo 2 (not IEM, but yea i spent money on brand name before) and tested my friends Westone W1 (220$). For me, these chifi iems sound better. Yes you heard me right, my Zs5 V1 totally takes the cake over the momentums and W1s. If I never owned the sennheiser, I might have agreed with you, since i wouldn't know how they sound.

This is interesting, because I would not agree because I know the expensive ones better, because it's more recognizable and logically my brain would have said cheap=worse. Now I'm sure you will agree sennheiser is a reputable brand and me paying 120$ is a proof of that. I myself would have loved to like the senns more since I paid more, but my ears deny that.

Tbh I hated the Zs5 at the start and cursed at Audiobudget.com + HeadFi for my money. But I now realize I needed some time to adjust to the iems and its sound. Burn In may be snake oil to some, but for me personally, after burning in my kz5 overnight (once), the bass for sure was tighter and more defined. And now I believe in burn in. However, build quality wise? Yes completely different ball park. The chifi iems imo have no space to compare, specially durability.

But the fact remains, I buy these chifi iems for sound quality. In fact, I'm happy I overcame the early QC issues, I've tested Shure Se215(sound isolating $149) , and to my semi-trained ears, the Zs5 aren't behind. The shure sounded less sparkly and the highs were more dull than zs5, however the mids were better and had more fullness. I still prefer the sennheiser over the shure, and the Zs5 over the sennheiser. Sure I'm not an audiophile like others here, but I know what I'm hearing and I can pick up details.

 Half my friends with these gears couldn't differentiate the Zs5 between Shure, shure in terms of sound. That in itself is an achievement for these chifi  iems Imo. In fact they don't know what Kz is, but they think after hearing the Zs5 that it must cost around 100 due to its sound.

Now am I saying you're wrong? Not necessarily. Am I saying western stuff is superior? Hell no. I've owned chifi IEM, and western ones. Western ones aren't miles better, in fact some chifi iems like Tin audio T2 and the Zs5 for me, offer better value and comparable if not better audio quality. Zs5 > Momentums or Se215. And yes, I did spend on the silver upgrade cable (microphonics)  and foam tips, but that was $8 combined. $40 Vs $120 and the cheaper option is still so damn good if not better for me.

Edit: I'm not gonna contradict myself, as stated getting used to the sound signature does affect preferences. Some could say, I never got used to shure (2 days)  and I'd agree. However I own the senns and the tested westones for a week. The westones were plain bad (I couldn't hear a few instruments at all) compared to my Zs5. Also, try listening to Donald Fagens : I.G.Y with the Zs5... It's bloody marvelous. The separation, the clearness of instruments. The width of the Soundstage.... It's just beautiful. That is a good example of what the Zs5 truly offers.

Update : Incase anyone is wondering, no the Zs5 aren't too sharp or siblilance to my ears. I have V1 with one BA on nozzle and the burn in does help a looooot. To some this could be snake oil, but it worked for me and that's all that matters to me.


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> This is interesting, because I would not agree because I know the expensive ones better, *because it's more recognizable and logically my brain would have said cheap=worse.*


I feel the need to point out that that bias can just as easily swing the other way. (ie better value = better overall)

Not saying you're wrong or anything, just that it's healthy to continually question our own biases imo. 
Believing one can inextricably rule out one's own biases is a sure path to the dark side of audiophiledom.


----------



## RomStar (Nov 4, 2017)

vector84 said:


> I feel the need to point out that that bias can just as easily swing the other way. (ie better value = better overall)
> 
> Not saying you're wrong or anything, just that it's healthy to continually question our own biases imo.
> Believing one can inextricably rule out one's own biases is a sure path to the dark side of audiophiledom.



Can't agree more with you ^^

I must admit, I did give into Zircon hype in the past, but now I realize I'm not even close to a bass head or ever truly believed myself. I remember thinking Zircons are comparable to $300 iems... Which is laughable to  me now. God knows where my Zircons are, but may they be in a better place

Likewise, I bashed the Zs5 hard, because my expectations were sky high. I easily touted my momentums to be better in every single category (after 10 minutes of zs5 listening lol)... Now look at me. Been a while since I even used my Sennheisers during a commute (not saying they are bad)

That's why this forum is amazing, it's a consortium of rational conversations. I remember other forums just praising chifi iems and comparing them to $500 pairs... Just laughable at times


----------



## VinceHill24

RomStar said:


> That's why this forum is amazing, it's a consortium of rational conversations. I remember other forums just praising chifi iems and comparing them to $500 pairs... Just laughable at times


A reason why i still lurk in head-fi thread. I think over here we learn to appreciate differences and contributed to the overall community with insightful and informative inputs. From reading those seemingly sponsored budget audio sites (you know what i'm referring to) during my early audiophile days, i'm glad i ended up on head-fi eventually.


----------



## kokakolia

I personally believe that brands like Shure, Sennheiser, Koss and even Westone are hyped up to the high heavens. They built their reputation on older, top-performing (at the time, this was forever ago) and reliable models. There's nothing wrong with that. They sell something people want. But it's a recipe for stagnant prices and stagnant innovation. I personally think that the Shure SE215 is poor value. It's well built, but the fit is annoying and they sound pretty boring. And this is why KZ looks so good in comparison. 

And then you have another problem where KZ is overhyped because it "does better than the popular brand Shure for less $". 

Meanwhile, the consumer that I am suffers from buying Shure and KZ products alike and being disappointed. Because the hype is inflated between the well-known brands like Shure and the budget "giant killers" like KZ. 

I'm so happy that I found out about the Marshall Mode and later about the KEF M100. These earphones are definitely under appreciated and can be a bought at a bargain as a result.


----------



## RomStar

kokakolia said:


> Meanwhile, the consumer that I am suffers from buying Shure and KZ products alike and being disappointed. Because the hype is inflated between the well-known brands like Shure and the budget "giant killers" like KZ.


 That's a very strong point and I actually agree. As mentioned before, I never till this day liked the ATE. It was a hype magnet and I first saw this on YouTube. One of the Pocket Now reviewers  named Juan Bagnell (I think) even made a video on it.

Now having owned chifi iems like Zircons, Remax D610 (way too boring with no sub bass), Swings, older kz I totally see you're point. To me, they are good but not comparable to say Momentums which I used as a benchmark (cuz that's how ppl hype these buds). I honestly almost just gave up and the Zs5 was going to be my last purchase... And then it all changed. And that's how I made this HeadFi account (I lost trust on Budget Audio sites at this point)

Not sure if you own the Zs5 or not, but they are the best chifi iem I have alongside soon to be Tin2. Tbh I wasn't a fan out of the box but just trust me and let it burn in on pink noise for 20 hrs and put them back on. Now I don't think burn in helps all headphones, but for me I think it was very noticeable with the Zs5. I'm now very happy with chifi but I try and avoid hype.

Basically I trust @HiFiChris and @B9Scrambler. Their reviews are amazing work and I enjoy reading them. Their sites are top notch as well (content wise) and I visit both of these quite frequently now 

Also, @B9Scrambler, I didn't forget that tin2 recommendation you have me like 40 pages back lol. Ordered them, and I was lucky enough to listen to them via friend. It's actually very good and suites me (sub bass is kinda meh, but amazing over all)

And @HiFiChris I think I might just snag a pair of brainwavz b100 and not b200. I think I'd rather get 2 iems than 1, gonna split money between Tin2 and brainwavz (unless u have a better option for me ). Also you single handedly changed me from mindlessly hating apple earpods so that's that lol


----------



## kokakolia

I strongly agree that there are some really well written reviews out there. The problem I have is that they all seem to review the same products! And they all seem to agree as well. I find this troubling because my tastes are different than others. 

I gotta say I was really nervous buying the KEF M100. There are no detailed reviews out there. And the few reviews from Tech Advisor, Alphr and Digital Trends are completely off saying that there's a lack of bass and highs. It's like they spent 10 minutes with the headphones and wrote a review on the toilet before going to work. 

It's so ironic that an earphone from an iconic brand like KEF, and now Paradigm and Focal get way fewer reviews than some of these "generic" Chi-Fi IEMs.


----------



## nxnje

kokakolia said:


> I strongly agree that there are some really well written reviews out there. The problem I have is that they all seem to review the same products! And they all seem to agree as well. I find this troubling because my tastes are different than others.
> 
> I gotta say I was really nervous buying the KEF M100. There are no detailed reviews out there. And the few reviews from Tech Advisor, Alphr and Digital Trends are completely off saying that there's a lack of bass and highs. It's like they spent 10 minutes with the headphones and wrote a review on the toilet before going to work.
> 
> It's so ironic that an earphone from an iconic brand like KEF, and now Paradigm and Focal get way fewer reviews than some of these "generic" Chi-Fi IEMs.



I just wanted to let u think about which kind of headphones u're talkin about.
There are more reviews about KZ just because their cost is freakin' low.
Not everyone has like €100+ for IEMs and no one spends so much unless it is his passion.
I understand what you say, i even have other sennheiser On ear & over ear headphones and i always hear people talking about cheap and low cost headphones.
World is not just formed by people like us that always search for the best quality products, so we have to fight on the web to find good reviews for good products.


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## kokakolia

nxnje said:


> World is not just formed by people like us that always search for the best quality products, so we have to fight on the web to find good reviews for good products.



That's an overstatement! I just don't like sharp squeaky treble, muddy bass and recessed vocals...Apparently that's asking a lot.


----------



## Daniel Gur

hey, not something serious, just wanted to drop a photo I did with my ZST earbuds.


----------



## randomnin

Another point I'd like to make is that with the atmosphere here and the reliability problems, your Chi-Fi bargains are likely to accumulate quickly and might be more expensive than used or cheapest options Western makers provide. I mean, most people come here to get good sound on the cheap, not develop a passion and a collection, nevertheless the unwilled latter is what seems to happen often. And, again, if the measurements here are correct, then I'm inclined to think that very few to none cheap Chi-Fi makers employ engineers that understand audiology and how to actually make drivers. Meaning that they get drivers that sound somewhat okay from who knows where and put them in various casings, play with vents, tuning foam, maybe with how much power the drivers get. While acclaimed makers know every piece and detail of even the oldest or cheapest thing they make.
I still plan to get ZST and maybe even ZS5 (and extra cables if they're cheap), but cheapest Western IEMs vs Chi-Fi is still a fair fight. And the former might still be winning, I think - contrary to the general consensus here.


----------



## Selenium

kokakolia said:


> I strongly agree that there are some really well written reviews out there. The problem I have is that they all seem to review the same products! And they all seem to agree as well. I find this troubling because my tastes are different than others.
> 
> I gotta say I was really nervous buying the KEF M100. There are no detailed reviews out there. And the few reviews from Tech Advisor, Alphr and Digital Trends are completely off saying that there's a lack of bass and highs. It's like they spent 10 minutes with the headphones and wrote a review on the toilet before going to work.
> 
> It's so ironic that an earphone from an iconic brand like KEF, and now Paradigm and Focal get way fewer reviews than some of these "generic" Chi-Fi IEMs.



If they sound anything like the M200 then they must sound pretty rad! Unfortunately KEF seems to come up with their ergonomics by looking into the toilet at product of their latest bowel movement.


----------



## eaglesgift (Nov 4, 2017)

randomnin said:


> Another point I'd like to make is that with the atmosphere here and the reliability problems, your Chi-Fi bargains are likely to accumulate quickly and might be more expensive than used or cheapest options Western makers provide. I mean, most people come here to get good sound on the cheap, not develop a passion and a collection, nevertheless the unwilled latter is what seems to happen often. And, again, if the measurements here are correct, then I'm inclined to think that very few to none cheap Chi-Fi makers employ engineers that understand audiology and how to actually make drivers. Meaning that they get drivers that sound somewhat okay from who knows where and put them in various casings, play with vents, tuning foam, maybe with how much power the drivers get. While acclaimed makers know every piece and detail of even the oldest or cheapest thing they make.
> I still plan to get ZST and maybe even ZS5 (and extra cables if they're cheap), but cheapest Western IEMs vs Chi-Fi is still a fair fight. And the former might still be winning, I think - contrary to the general consensus here.


I don't own any 'Western' IEMs but I do have some cheap JVC IEMs that are clearly outclassed by most of the $10-30 Chi-Fi IEMs I've bought. I don't think anybody honestly believes that their next $5-$50 KZ IEm will be a world beater but it's fun to imagine they might be and, in my experience, most of them have some good qualities. The fun is in finding value for money; I'm under no illusion that I'm actually saving money by buying dozens of Chi-Fi IEMs but if I spent $300 on a single pair from a well-known, established brand from Japan or the West I would expect them to be excellent - I wouldn't be excited if they were but I would be disappointed if they had even the tiniest of flaws.


----------



## Selenium

Most of these "Western" IEMs are made in China just like Chi-fi stuff anyway so...


----------



## Superluc (Nov 4, 2017)




----------



## khighly

I'm going to pick up a ZS6 this coming week. What's the best place to pick up potentially the newest version (i.e stock moves quickly)?


----------



## Selenium

khighly said:


> I'm going to pick up a ZS6 this coming week. What's the best place to pick up potentially the newest version (i.e stock moves quickly)?



There are already new ones?


----------



## SHAMuuu

Anyone have corrected numbers using APO EQ with the ATEs? If possible, to share the figures would be nice


----------



## Superluc (Nov 4, 2017)

Selenium said:


> There are already new ones?


It's not sure, just supposed to be because a guy, in a review, buy some different pair and the last one is said to have more balanced highs.

I think that, if one want to buy a newer pair of them, it may be better to wait the release of the gray model, for be sure of it.

EDIT: oh, there is already on Aliexpress.


----------



## young59

Superluc said:


> It's not sure, just supposed to be because a guy, in a review, buy some different pair and the last one is said to have more balanced highs.
> 
> I think that, if one want to buy a newer pair of them, it may be better to wait the release of the gray model, for be sure of it.
> 
> EDIT: oh, there is already on Aliexpress.


link please.


----------



## randomnin

Superluc said:


>


Respectfully, I'm compelled to disagree with such a classification. Devil's advocate? Maybe. Blasphemer and provocateur? Also possible. But in no way I'm doing this just to annoy people. I actually believe that there's a fair possibility of my point of view being of high veracity.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> I have another potentially controversial skeptic's question - what's up with Chinese IEMs and vents? It's always a disadvantage (isolation) and the big Western names in audio usually don't have unnecessary holes in the casings of their IEMs, even old models. A lack in technological capabilities remedied by holes? Or am I missing something important?



Are you talking about vents or open grilles? Vents are usually very small, like 1-2mm. Open vents can carry in size.

Just like with headphones - closed, semi-open, fully open.

It's not really a Chinese thing. Most HP/EPs use various vents and grilles for tuning. Even vents on the driver itself are used for tuning.


----------



## Superluc

young59 said:


> link please.


Of the gray one ? 

I have found these:
https://aliexpress.com/store/produc...HIFI-Noise-Isolating/2894006_32828536668.html
https://aliexpress.com/store/produc...ne-for-Iphone-Mobile/1922340_32828061649.html


----------



## paulindss

Anyone here antecipating Kz Zsr just because of the amazing shells of Zs3 ? I mean, the drivers of zs3 was quite mediocre, but they turned to be awesome to wear and hear on the street, bus, etc. Since i've heard the rumours of zsr i have been waiting, even more beacuse i lost my zs3. I expect them to be in the middle of the road of Zst and zs5 in terms of price, optimistic, or the exact price of zs5. 2 bas, and 1 dynamic drivers, what are the earphones around there that uses the same configuration ? The zs3 was quite warm and bassy, 2 ba and one dynamic leaves the impression of a more bright signature. But please Kz, do not leave us with another huge spike in highs. Something like a Es3 - a more warm approach with more sub-bass zst - in the shell of zs3 and i would be already super happy.


----------



## Superluc

paulindss said:


> Anyone here antecipating Kz Zsr just because of the amazing shells of Zs3 ?


The ZSR's shell is not the same as the one used for the ZS3. 

The newer ZS3 will be probably the ZS4.


----------



## trafo11 (Nov 4, 2017)

ahoj nové tu, ospravedlňujem sa za anglicky, ale posledné dni hrám so svojím kz zs6 a mám merania a porovnania s vsonic gr07bass, 1more Triple, kz zs5 a urbanfun hifi. moja modifikácia spočívala v tom, že som do dýzy vložil trochu akustickej peny a odpojil som jednu balakovanú armatúru. Moje merania a porovnania sú zverejnené v albume tu na fead fi.I just tried uploading photos and measurements and I can not upload, do not you know why?


----------



## paulindss (Nov 4, 2017)

Superluc said:


> The ZSR's shell is not the same as the one used for the ZS3.
> 
> The newer ZS3 will be probably the ZS4.



Someone posted a pic here, with the shells of zs3 in the same angle of the picture of disclorsure zsr. They looked pretty much the same, i've assumed that they are, the same. I also have my doubts that kz will launch a eaphone with the name of zs4, 4 is a "cursed" number in chinese culture. Tha'ts the main reason why they jumped from Kz zs3 to zs5, or zst.


----------



## paulindss

Viber said:


> ahhh, well yea i tried to do a comparison:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the front part (the nozzle side) might be similar, but the back looks like a more orthodox shape.



Here @Superluc


----------



## Superluc

Seeing this:






The ZSR seem to me similar but more rounded and large near the nozzle. Perspective ? Maybe...

Regarding the ZS4, some KZ cables seller have add it's name on some cables support. Hillsonicaudio also have talked about it 





> ZS4 and ZSR will probably be long still, month end or early November will likely be the new expected launch date.



It's a proof. There's no need to think that they can't release an IEM with a damn 4 on it 

The LZ A4 isn't chinese ?


----------



## Selenium (Nov 4, 2017)

Superluc said:


> It's not sure, just supposed to be because a guy, in a review, buy some different pair and the last one is said to have more balanced highs.
> 
> I think that, if one want to buy a newer pair of them, it may be better to wait the release of the gray model, for be sure of it.
> 
> EDIT: oh, there is already on Aliexpress.



The difference he heard could be because of burn-in, it could be psychological, could be unfortunate product variation at a manufacturing level, etc.

Saying it's a "ZS6 v2" seems like a knee-jerk reaction to me.


----------



## paulindss

Superluc said:


> Seeing this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



By that time, the rumour on the zsr where as they being a 10 driver iem, with a whole new shell, and zs4 as the hybrid zs3. It was just rumours; It turns out that we probably have the "hybrid zs3" wich would be zs4, as, in reallity, Zsr. I tend to think that there are no zs4, just zsr, as the 10 driver did'nt came, and the hybrid zs3 is probably, in front of us. 

Sure, they can release a iem with a 4 on it, but because of what i explained, i think that zs4 is, in reality, the zsr.


----------



## vector84

paulindss said:


> By that time, the rumour on the zsr where as they being a 10 driver iem, with a whole new shell, and zs4 as the hybrid zs3. It was just rumours; It turns out that we probably have the "hybrid zs3" wich would be zs4, as, in reallity, Zsr. I tend to think that there are no zs4, just zsr, as the 10 driver did'nt came, and the hybrid zs3 is probably, in front of us.
> 
> Sure, they can release a iem with a 4 on it, but because of what i explained,* i think that zs4 is, in reality, the zsr.*


Maybe, but considering the ZSR and ZS4 will fall into groups A(angled) and B(straight) for cables, as is already plastered all over ali and has been for months... really?


----------



## vector84

randomnin said:


> And, again, if the measurements here are correct, then I'm inclined to think that very few to none cheap Chi-Fi makers employ engineers that understand audiology and how to actually make drivers.





randomnin said:


> Respectfully, I'm compelled to disagree with such a classification. Devil's advocate? Maybe. Blasphemer and provocateur? Also possible. But in no way I'm doing this just to annoy people. I actually believe that there's a fair possibility of my point of view being of high veracity.


If you're really not trolling and are just genuinely seeking information, I would strongly suggest you go take a look at some of the Harman research on what neutral sounds like in headphones before you try to read any more FR plots.


----------



## khighly

Selenium said:


> There are already new ones?



Reading through the past few pages, it seems like they're all over the place. So, I don't know?

I never trust anyone here. Someone whines about high sibilance and then I get it and I'm like "where are the highs you're complaining about, they're detailed and amazing"? Then someone just removes to BA's like an idiot and only has two DD's with one giving you 15Hz - 400Hz and one giving you 500Hz to 5Khz now and nothing above. Just buy Tennmak Pro's with upgraded mcx cables at that point.

My favorite thing was when they released the ZS5v1's and everyone was like "Wow these are so much better and the highs are so much more controlled than the ZST". No. Wrong. The ZS5v1 has the same, if not more piercing highs and I love it. It may be because there's more filling in the middle frequencies below those highs, but they're not any less sibilant than the ZST's.

Unless a large group of people in here are complaining about a specific issue, I don't care about personal reviews.


----------



## paulindss

vector84 said:


> Maybe, but considering the ZSR and ZS4 will fall into groups A(angled) and B(straight) for cables, as is already plastered all over ali and has been for months... really?



I did'nt payed attention to that, it can be, maybe there's a zs4, coming in the way, its a valid point.
I keep on believing that we will not see a zs4 tought, the rumour of kz zs10(5 driver per side)makes more sense to me... Chinese disclosure is a mess, so it can be that those announcement of zs4 cables was just a mistake to. We will see, anyway


----------



## randomnin

vector84 said:


> If you're really not trolling and are just genuinely seeking information, I would strongly suggest you go take a look at some of the Harman research on what neutral sounds like in headphones before you try to read any more FR plots.


Does it apply to IEMs? And is it not already accounted for in the IEC 60268-7 (which is paywalled and nowhere to be found) standard in accord with which the measurements are made? My guess is that it's supposed to be flat, but there's no way of checking without reading the IEC 60268-7.


----------



## Majorfifth

I want to make a decision, but now i just get confusions because too much read a review in weeks.
you know, it's kinda like looking for a Download Button nowdays lol!
Here's my IEMs signature what i looking for:
1.clarity.
2.tight bass.
3.not to warm, just enough for fast kick.
4. and not too much low-bass just balanced.
5.the most important is, have a good response to EQ.

and i think bit harsh or sibilance is normal for cheap IEMs anyway, and we have EQ to solve it.

M6 Pro, zs3, zst colorful, or any that have similarities price range
which one's that work for me ?
thanks.


----------



## Superluc

paulindss said:


> I did'nt payed attention to that, it can be, maybe there's a zs4, coming in the way, its a valid point.
> I keep on believing that we will not see a zs4 tought, the rumour of kz zs10(5 driver per side)makes more sense to me... Chinese disclosure is a mess, so it can be that those announcement of zs4 cables was just a mistake to. We will see, anyway


We can assuming all we can think and hope, and you may be right that the ZSR can be the supposed ZS3 hybrid, even if they didn't seem exactly the same, because at now no official source have stated otherwise. Anyway, we both don't have solid information from KZ.

Probability change from different point of view, but it's better to trust info's from the sellers than our thinking. 
What was said is that there is a ZS4 incoming with ZS3/5/6 plug. "At that time" was only one month ago, and November seem to respect the incoming release of the ZSR. The change from ZSR to ZS10, on the 5 drivers project, was also said by that same source. Why don't trust it ?


----------



## Superluc

Majorfifth said:


> 1.clarity.
> 2.tight bass.
> 3.not to warm, just enough for fast kick.
> 4. and not too much low-bass just balanced.
> ...


ZS3 are more boomy and lack the clarity you may searching. 

On KZ i think you can try ZS5 or ZS6, otherwise maybe the Emi can suit you.


----------



## kokakolia

Selenium said:


> If they sound anything like the M200 then they must sound pretty rad! Unfortunately KEF seems to come up with their ergonomics by looking into the toilet at product of their latest bowel movement.



The M100s don't have that problem at all. The ergonomics are great actually. The only gripe I have is that they stick out of the ear a little so they can fall out of the ear more easily that way.


----------



## TheVortex

Has anyone here tried these kZ foam tips with the ZS6 as I want to order them on the 11.11 sale among with some other things?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...547.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.55a2d3f895SQaG


----------



## Wiljen

Majorfifth said:


> I want to make a decision, but now i just get confusions because too much read a review in weeks.
> you know, it's kinda like looking for a Download Button nowdays lol!
> Here's my IEMs signature what i looking for:
> 1.clarity.
> ...



The M6 Pro is the most balanced of the group listed by a considerable distance.  Both the Zs3 and Zst are V shaped and bass heavy.   Having said that, the M6 pro I have sits in my drawer untouched and unused as it is quite possibly the most clinical, analytical, and outright boring headphone I own.


----------



## kokakolia

khighly said:


> Reading through the past few pages, it seems like they're all over the place. So, I don't know?
> 
> I never trust anyone here. Someone whines about high sibilance and then I get it and I'm like "where are the highs you're complaining about, they're detailed and amazing"? Then someone just removes to BA's like an idiot and only has two DD's with one giving you 15Hz - 400Hz and one giving you 500Hz to 5Khz now and nothing above. Just buy Tennmak Pro's with upgraded mcx cables at that point.
> 
> ...



I certainly don't trust you! You love piercing highs...eewwwwwww!


----------



## Superluc

TheVortex said:


> Has anyone here tried these kZ foam tips with the ZS6 as I want to order them on the 11.11 sale among with some other things?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...547.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.55a2d3f895SQaG


Hakuzen test them and they don't seem to have the same effect on higher frequency than normal foams. Another user post an image with one of them cracked, as they miss an internal tube, so a bigger nozzle, like the one of ZS5/6, may create too much pressure inside them.

Anyone have tried to cut and use them to fill a silicon tips, for do a diy hybrid ? I don't remember who have say it, but i want to try it, as they are crap


----------



## Wiljen

The Gel foams don't hold up near as well as the regular foams in my experience.


----------



## RomStar

@Slater I tried you're half tape mod and it works. The mid bass has a very slight boost but the sub bass has seen the biggest improvement. I also think the bass is deeper but not quicker tho. 

I think I didn't tape it as well as I could. Is this what you meant by covering half the hole?


----------



## eaglesgift

randomnin said:


> I'm inclined to think that very few to none cheap Chi-Fi makers employ engineers that understand audiology and how to actually make drivers.


I think you're a little confused. Audiologists study hearing disorders, not audio product design. I doubt any Western audio firms employ engineers that understand audiology either.


----------



## harriss

it seems like zsr is using 2 dynamic driver


----------



## maxxevv

Where did you get that idea from ? Nothing in the picture suggests that. 

The poster there clearly states "1 coil , 2 iron" if literally translated. In transposed nomenclature, that's 1 dynamic driver, 2 balanced armature.


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 5, 2017)

So my ZS6 arrived from Gearbest the other day...
As you can see they are rather beautiful.




I decided (for now) not to cut out 1 BA from each.. but Instead I thought I'd first try to burn-in the BAs with insanely loud high-frequancy white-noise.
Here's a shot of foobar that I took of the burn in (note the EQ and volume??)

It was so loud that I had to wrap them in foam and I could still hear them 4 feet away.
You wouldn't believe the power those BAs can handle...
I did this for several hours then did a standard burn for more hours at full range.

This did nothing to calm the sibilance, it almost seemed worse after the burn-in.

So, I decided rather then rip out a BA like I did to my ZS5v2, I would just take a very small amount of bees wax and plug one BA from each earphone..



This worked quite well for muting the BAs without having to remove them..
I _may_ even be able to undo it by pointing the earpiece BA nozzle downward, and then quickly heating the BA with a very low watt soldering-iron, then absorb the beeswax with a Q-Tip.
Although I don't ever see myself doing this, unless I start going deaf in the 10Khz region.

Early impressions:
The highs are tamed rather well now, and they sound good even on highly sibilant tracks (like every single song Animals As Leaders ever recorded).

The bass is definitely more intense then my ZS5v2 (modded with 1 BA removal & micro pore tape over the ear facing vents).
I can almost feel the bass punching me in the chest! 
At times the lower midbass (100Hz to 160Hz) is slightly louder then I like but, it's nothing I'd be too bothered by really...

If I had one wish; I would like to add a bit of the mid-treble clarity of the KZ-ZST..
I wouldn't mind a wider soundstage (again like the ZST), as well..
I think I still have a bit of a crush on the ZST, even though it's mid treble is just evil at times, there's something about the ZST's sound stage & clarity that I just love.

Also, even though I tamed the sibilance by wax-muting a BA in each earpiece, I still feel like the highs are slightly on the artificial side of things..
It's rather slight now, but it could definitely be improved.
It would be nice if I could hear more of an -even- range in the treble, like a flat response between 4Khz to 16Khz would be nice.

Oh, and one last important thing:
For some reason the ZS6 doesn't hurt my ears.. I can only take the ZS5 for 1-1/2 hours maybe 2, but the ZS*6* is surprisingly comfortable...


----------



## Tinesife (Nov 5, 2017)

Hello, is ZS5 v2 bad? Some say it has a lot of sibilance, but is it good for mid-high lover? I resell KZ for fun and I have a ZS6 (to replace my dead Co-donguri Shizuku, some say it's too bright but personally I like it) and I think ZS6 isn't bad at all. My friend bought one ZS5 from me but I haven't tested them and I haven't checked if it was v1 or v2.


----------



## bjaardker

Has anyone seen the ZS6 coming up anywhere for a 11.11 deal? I'm intrigued, but not enough to drop $35-40 on it.


----------



## maxxevv

AudioObsession said:


> So my ZS6 arrived from Gearbest the other day...
> As you can see they are rather beautiful.
> 
> 
> ...



You should have at least read the instruction sheet in the box. KZ does have its recommendations for burn-in method and duration.  

*hint* : It doesn't involve high volumes. 




bjaardker said:


> Has anyone seen the ZS6 coming up anywhere for a 11.11 deal? I'm intrigued, but not enough to drop $35-40 on it.



A quick search suggests at least 2 deals in the US$31~32  range on Aliexpress. One of them is current and doesn't even need to wait till 11.11.


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 5, 2017)

khighly said:


> Then someone just removes to BA's like an *idiot* and only has two DD's with one giving you 15Hz - 400Hz and one giving you 500Hz to 5Khz now and nothing above.



"*Idiot*"??
Wow, that was rather harsh, don't you think?
Did I somehow offend you by deciding to modify my ZS5 earphones that *I own?*
Well, this "idiot" thinks his ZS5 v2 mod sounds fantastic..
Definitely much better then it did before.

And where did you even get the idea that my ZS5 v.2 are now only able to produce a frequency range of  "_[15Hz - 400Hz and 500Hz to 5Khz and nothing above]_"
Seriously?
All I did was remove 1 BA (*out of 2*) per earpiece.

Were you even paying attention?
It was not a ZS5 _*v.1*_ that I modded....

It was a ZS5 *V2*
The ZS5 *-V.2-*  have _*TWO*_ BALANCED ARMATURES _IN THE NOZZLE_ (Not ONE)...

Also, I know my frequencies rather well, and I can tell you with *absolute certainty*, my _*1BA*_ + 2DD ZS5 *V.2* produces far _*above*_ the "5Khz" range.
Why? Because there's still 1 BA left in EACH earphone...


----------



## vector84

AudioObsession said:


> So my ZS6 arrived from Gearbest the other day...
> As you can see they are rather beautiful.
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty clever, though with your planned removal method I'd worry a bit that the wax might still wick into somewhere it shouldn't be... then again you don't seem particularly inclined to reverse the process 


Not sure why people's feathers are getting so ruffled over a little modding in the KZ thread though... isn't that half the fun of budget stuff?
But whether you agree with the practice or not, we should try to remember to be excellent to each other, especially in our disagreements.


----------



## AudioObsession

,





vector84 said:


> Pretty clever, though with your planned removal method I'd worry a bit that the wax might still wick into somewhere it shouldn't be... then again you don't seem particularly inclined to reverse the process
> 
> 
> Not sure why people's feathers are getting so ruffled over a little modding in the KZ thread though... isn't that half the fun of budget stuff?
> But whether you agree with the practice or not, we should try to remember to be excellent to each other, especially in our disagreements.



Thanks Man! 

Yeah I agree, I don't believe it will be 100% reversible....I mean it _might, _but as you said; the wax will probably wick up in there some how. 
And yeah, I have no intentions of reversing this ever.
However, if I'm ever _really desperate_; I still have 2 perfectly good BAs left over from my ZS5 mod!!  

But yeah, it is annoying being called an "idiot"...Especially when they don't seem to understand what I did...
I think he thought I pulled the BAs out of a ZS5 V.1's nozzle.

Either way, the name calling is pretty sad for sure.. 


And now I got another one slamming me for my hardcore burn-in experiment on my ZS6..
Ugh..  
I mean, of course I know you shouldn't do burn-ins like that! Duh! 
The whole point was; I wanted to _****experiment*** *_on the ZS6, and hopefully do as minimal of a physical mod, as possible.. 
That way I could pass the results on to others, so they too could benefit from my results and enjoy their earphones a lot more.
Is that such an "idiot" thing to do?

Also, I paid for these earphones, that means *I own them*...
So is it some how -illegal- for me to have some fun trying to improve my sets of earphones?? 

I'm well aware of the risks that they might get damaged or destroyed.. 
So what!  That's half the fun! 

And it was worth it, because now I love both my ZS5 v.2 and my ZS6.
So who's the idiot?? 

Anyway, I guess that's what the "ignore feature" is for...


----------



## RomStar

AudioObsession said:


> ,
> 
> Thanks Man!
> 
> ...



Actually I can't agree more.... I know some might say: Isn't he over reacting?

My opinion: No. Not slightly

I myself would be very annoyed if someone just bashed me due to what I did to my objects. Firstly, you're not promoting this and saying : guys you must do this mod and if It breaks then boohoo tough luck

Secondly: It's you're choice and you're only posting results.

Regarding the argument: "I wasn't trying to be negative" or "I'm only pointing things out".

That's not how it works. If you're bothered enough to explain how someone should burn in their IEM or "I'm not interested in personal reviews". Then why bother replying? Some are literally implying we should be able to read the broken ugly kz English text/we cant burn in iems  or you assumed someone gave a personal review. Guess what, it's neither. How is someone's opinion a personal review?

I'm not really bashing anyone, but it did slightly get to me. @AudioObsession thanks for actually doing these. To me these are informative and we get to learn more about these iems. As you stated, it's your iems and it's honestly half the fun. It's a shame I'm a total noob at this, but I myself wanna try some of these mods quite badly


Just don't let some silly things get to you


----------



## hakuzen

TheVortex said:


> Has anyone here tried these kZ foam tips with the ZS6 as I want to order them on the 11.11 sale among with some other things?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...547.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.55a2d3f895SQaG


tried, but they are a no-no for zs6. they don't cut 11kHz peak, are continuously sliding out, and get broken easily.
better try these (or similar) instead (T400/500 for ZS6):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40-...-earphones-enhanced-bass-Ear/32741636522.html



Superluc said:


> Hakuzen test them and they don't seem to have the same effect on higher frequency than normal foams. Another user post an image with one of them cracked, as they miss an internal tube, so a bigger nozzle, like the one of ZS5/6, may create too much pressure inside them.
> 
> Anyone have tried to cut and use them to fill a silicon tips, for do a diy hybrid ? I don't remember who have say it, but i want to try it, as they are crap


yep, i made hybrids from almost every silicone tip i own, to achieve better isolation, without cutting 8-12kHz off.
first i used sleep foams (no hole).
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flc...ressions-thread.777158/page-325#post-12792664
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flc...ressions-thread.777158/page-319#post-12778579







 













but then i found that already holed no-tube gel foams were a lot easier to make: just cut the bottom part, to get desired length (according to silicone tip length), and insert it.
didn't buy kz gel foamies, though, found cheaper and various colors ones in ali.



AudioObsession said:


> So my ZS6 arrived from Gearbest the other day...
> As you can see they are rather beautiful.
> 
> 
> ...


awesome work!
i can't find any reason to mount 2 identical BAs in a shell, at same location, but maybe my knowledge is very limited.
instead of wax, you might try the knowles dampers, like someone suggested a few days ago.
grey or white ones from these might work, dunno, haven't checked for more specs.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bal...ics-Acoustic-2-pcs-in-1-pack/32580267018.html
(but beware, after getting the dampers, you might end building your own diy iems with knowles' BAs!)


----------



## AudioObsession

maxxevv said:


> You should have at least read the instruction sheet in the box. KZ does have its recommendations for burn-in method and duration.
> 
> *hint* : It doesn't involve high volumes.



This most definitely isn't my first burn-in. Okay?? lol! 

The ZS6 (and ZS5) was just a fun project/experiment for me.
_From the moment I ordered them, I had intentions to try several ***experiments*** to try to tame the highs_.
So obviously I wasn't interested in reading (or following) any instructions from KZ.
Okay?
Nor do I need any instructions (from anyone) on how to burn-in. 
Trust me; I would _*never *_do this type of burn-in on a premium set of earphones or headphones.

The ZS6 were cheap (I only paid $26) enough that I don't really care if I damage/destroy them...
I *don't like the highs* on them and since I *own* these earphones, I'll continue to do _what ever I feel like doing to them_.


----------



## young59

Guys the 10 driver kz iem whose box was leaked was the ZSR *Pro* not the Zsr there is still hope for 10 driver kz iem.


----------



## AudioObsession

RomStar said:


> Actually I can't agree more.... I know some might say: Isn't he over reacting?
> 
> My opinion: No. Not slightly
> 
> ...



Awe, thanks @RomStar for completely understanding where I am coming from here.  

And yeah, your right, I shouldn't let it bother me.. 
I decided to edit some of my more negative comments in my rant towards the person that called me an idiot...
I mean what's the point in exchanging negativity for negativity, it just creates more "negativity"..

I have been a long time lurker on Head-Fi, but I finally decided to join because I've learned so much from others on this wonderful site that I wanted to give something back.
It's just a bummer that others can't see it like that, and that they feel the need to troll you for no healthy benefit to themselves or others.


----------



## RomStar (Nov 5, 2017)

AudioObsession said:


> Awe, thanks @RomStar for completely understanding where I am coming from here.
> 
> And yeah, your right, I shouldn't let it bother me..
> I decided to edit some of my more negative comments in my rant towards the person that called me an idiot...
> ...


Thanks for joining head-fi, I am certainly learning a lot from you (only successful BA removal I've seen, cheers man) @hakuzen, @Slater, @vector84 and everyone else (can't name them all, too many names )

I might try you're mods on my Zs5 after I'm brave enough, I might just get a pair of v2 for comparison and modding purposes. Even though im sure I will prolly just break them but more data should help us draw better conclusions ^^

On a more positive note: what are some of you're favorite iems? I'm making a 11.11 list, and I could use some input for good iems under$100 

Also, I know it might silly but would it be possible to solder and use another Dynamic driver or anything else on the Zs6/Zs5 instead of the BA now?

 I don't really know how this works and would love a bit of input. Maybe it's a stupid question and you have to take size, price, compatability and so many things into account, but just a thought I had (since removing BA opens up extra space)


----------



## AudioObsession

hakuzen said:


> awesome work!
> i can't find any reason to mount 2 identical BAs in a shell, at same location, but maybe my knowledge is very limited.
> instead of wax, you might try the knowles dampers, like someone suggested a few days ago.
> grey or white ones from these might work, dunno, haven't checked for more specs.
> ...



Thank you @hakuzen!  
I don't understand it either... If KZ just designed one of the BAs  for mid-treble then the ZS6 & ZS5 v.2's would be perfect!
You know, I just may remove another BA from my ZS6 and then install a Knowles mid-treble tuned BA in it's place...
I've talked with @vector84 about the Knowles filters and I considered trying them, but in the end, I wanted to remove at least 50% of the -level- of the  high treble without actually changing the actual frequency of the BAs them selves..So it just made the most sense to mute or remove one of the BAs from each earpiece..
The results are really good, but that said; I would really like to attempt to add a mid treble BA so, perhaps I will do that eventually.


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 5, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Thanks for joining head-fi, I am certainly learning a lot from you (only successful BA removal I've seen, cheers man) @hakuzen, @Slater, @vector84 and everyone else (can't name them all, too many names )
> 
> I might try you're mods on my Zs5 after I'm brave enough, I might just get a pair of v2 for comparison and modding purposes. Even though im sure I will prolly just break them but more data should help us draw better conclusions ^^
> 
> ...



Thanks man, I am happy to be here. 
I am really an amateur at the IEM mods, but I have been involved with music/sound production based electronics most of my life, so I am not uncomfortable with taking things apart and re-designing them.

I was just mentioning to @hakuzen about installing another BA into the ZS5&6 that is more mid-treble tuned..
The KZ BAs are 12ohms so it would need to be the same (or close to the same), but I am curious to try it..

I am new to the whole IEM thing (I own less then a dozen earphones).. I used to just use an older (no mic) Brainwavz S0 while working at my shop, but I was always a serious headphones guy because I've been involved in studio/music production most of my life.

So because I still use the IEMs mostly in my dusty shop, I'm not sure I want to invest more then $70 maximum on anything that will probably eventually get destroyed.

That said, I am finding myself getting really addicted to this hobby, so I might eventually purchase the (hopefully glorious) LZ-A5 when it comes out...
I think my ideal sound signature is a mild W shape to a medium V shape..
Or flat with a good sub-bass (without losing out on mids) and clear treble, huge soundstage and excellent cohesion.
So before I spend a ton of $$, I need to learn a bit more about what I really want in an IEM..
That's probably why I plan on really altering the ZS6, to get it as close to what I want as I possibly  can..
I also have a BVGP DM5 coming that I'm hoping delivers what the ZS6 can't.


----------



## bartzky

hakuzen said:


> i can't find any reason to mount 2 identical BAs in a shell, at same location, but maybe my knowledge is very limited.


Actually there are two more or less good reasons. For one thing each unit of two identical drivers could still be in charge of different frequency ranges due to the crossover.
Apart from that there's even a sense in just taking two drivers instead on one for the same frequency range. That will give you 3 dB more SPL while keeping non-linear distortions the same. An example may make it a bit clearer:
Let's say we take one BA and listen at 80 dB SPL. We assume it produces 1% THD at a certain frequency for that particular level. If we now add another unit of the same BA and feed it the same signal, we will automatically listen to 83 dB SPL. The absolut values for the THD will also become 3 dB bigger, but as THD is a relative figure we'll still have got 1% THD. That's good as we gained a volume of 3 dB without increasing THD. Though, if we like to listen to 83 dB SPL with one driver only, we will increase non-linear distortions and will get more than 1% THD.


----------



## hakuzen

bartzky said:


> Actually there are two more or less good reasons. For one thing each unit of two identical drivers could still be in charge of different frequency ranges due to the crossover.
> Apart from that there's even a sense in just taking two drivers instead on one for the same frequency range. That will give you 3 dB more SPL while keeping non-linear distortions the same. An example may make it a bit clearer:
> Let's say we take one BA and listen at 80 dB SPL. We assume it produces 1% THD at a certain frequency for that particular level. If we now add another unit of the same BA and feed it the same signal, we will automatically listen to 83 dB SPL. The absolut values for the THD will also become 3 dB bigger, but as THD is a relative figure we'll still have got 1% THD. That's good as we gained a volume of 3 dB without increasing THD. Though, if we like to listen to 83 dB SPL with one driver only, we will increase non-linear distortions and will get more than 1% THD.


thanks!!


----------



## RomStar

AudioObsession said:


> Thanks man, I am happy to be here.
> I am really an amateur at the IEM mods, but I have been involved with music/sound production based electronics most of my life, so I am not uncomfortable with taking things apart and re-designing them.
> 
> I was just mentioning to @hakuzen about installing another BA into the ZS5&6 that is more mid-treble tuned..
> ...


The more I get to know you guys, the more I realize how little I know. Apparently some you are amateurs...that then puts me far below beginner 

Also please let me know how the BVGP DM5 sounds, I've seen them on sale for $80 before, not sure if I would get them unless they are a deff step up from my current gear

In terms of sound I also like mostly neutral signatures. I know it can be boring but hey I can survive. But I must say, I prefer more W - Shaped signatures tho. I'm also not too sensitive to highs so that helps as well I guess.

Now recently I got a pair of Swing Ie800 and my God was it good. It's sadly very bright like the kzs, but for $9 USD? It's an absolute Steal. It also comes with a cheap hard case, but I ain't complainin. Don't let its price fool you tho, other than say sub bass and instrument separation (which isn't bad but not amazing), it far out classes Zircons and classic budget picks for me (better than the ATEs I own, which isn't modified)


Lastly, does anyone know a thread dedicated to say sales or  the upcoming 11.11 deals? I tried the gear best stuff but it's hard to keep up, they have separate thread for everything


----------



## DeltaRay

Coming back after letting my zs5v2s burn in through a split cable while i use my other buds. I have to say that the difference compared to it out of box is rather drastic.Highs are much tamer and the imaging now is as coherent as the v1s. Was quite surprised as my experience with some v1s i bought for my friends was that it was more or less ready to go out of box. Overall glad its not a lemon


----------



## Wiljen

RomStar said:


> Also please let me know how the BVGP DM5 sounds, I've seen them on sale for $80 before, not sure if I would get them unless they are a deff step up from my current gear



dm5 is $65 at PenonAudio.  I wouldn't be inclined to pay $80 for them.


----------



## kokakolia

The ZSRs made me think. What if KZ listened to all the ZS5/ZS6 feedback and thought: "Perhaps we can dial the murder treble a notch, many people seem to hate that"? It makes me kinda optimistic that way. 

Or perhaps KZ just has a "signature sound" that involves lots of sharp treble. Because more treble = better clarity obviously. 

Does KZ have a "signature sound"?


----------



## kazuma2017

No zs4  
4(四) >>homophonic =die(死)


----------



## Slater (Nov 5, 2017)

RomStar said:


> @Slater I tried you're half tape mod and it works. The mid bass has a very slight boost but the sub bass has seen the biggest improvement. I also think the bass is deeper but not quicker tho.
> 
> I think I didn't tape it as well as I could. Is this what you meant by covering half the hole?



Yeah, you covered it just fine (covering it at the centerline/equator of the vent hole).

You can even play with the tape cutoff - covering a little more or a little less of the vent to get it tuned to your liking.


----------



## vladstef

kokakolia said:


> The ZSRs made me think. What if KZ listened to all the ZS5/ZS6 feedback and thought: "Perhaps we can dial the murder treble a notch, many people seem to hate that"? It makes me kinda optimistic that way.
> 
> Or perhaps KZ just has a "signature sound" that involves lots of sharp treble. Because more treble = better clarity obviously.
> 
> Does KZ have a "signature sound"?



I wouldn't say that they do, although you could kinda say that they are moving towards a more or less treble-heavy sound with ZST, ES3, ZS5 and ZS6. Imho, they overshoot the marks with ZS5 v1, can't even imagine the v2 nor ZS6. I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I suspect that they will move towards a more balanced sound if they decide to push the asking price of their flagships, at a certain point you have to, and that point is going down by the minute by the likes of Tin Audio T2 for example.


----------



## Slater

AudioObsession said:


> Oh, and one last important thing:
> For some reason the ZS6 doesn't hurt my ears.. I can only take the ZS5 for 1-1/2 hours maybe 2, but the ZS*6* is surprisingly comfortable...



The ZS6 shell has a few minor revisions to it to increase comfort. On the bottom by the nozzle there is an extra “shelf”, and on the side by the nozzle it is smoother than the ZS5 (the ZS5 has sharper angled “edges”; the ZS6 is smoother and less contains less sharp angles).


----------



## Viber

"The rumoured 5 drivers (4BA + 1DD) is still under development and may not be available so soon. They'll rename it ZS10 instead of ZSR. It's still a work in progress."

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYH964DlFNY/


----------



## Keller2

There's something off about the ZS6 soundsig. It's not the piercing highs that're giving me troubles, but there's a very annoying sharp spike in the upper mids at around ~3k. 

Anyone experience anything simillar? This is the same reason i hate the SR325is with a passion.


----------



## Superluc (Nov 5, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Or perhaps KZ just has a "signature sound" that involves lots of sharp treble. Because more treble = better clarity obviously.


I think that the v-shaped tuning they do, especially on multidrivers with BAs, it's not random at all, as it may be something that can confirm to the user, with clarity and elevated treble, the presence of the BA itself.

If you want something flat or dark-warm, it may be better for you to avoid their multidriver line. At least, until they release one pair with a lot different tuning in mind and clarify that neutral sign objective.

ZSR is said to be with one dynamic and two BAs, i doubt it a lot that it may be a dark warm model.

Just don't think that your ideal tuning can be the same for others.
Think about Grado's, different quality and price, but a lot of their products is tuned with very elevated treble.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 5, 2017)

Keller2 said:


> There's something off about the ZS6 soundsig. It's not the piercing highs that're giving me troubles, but there's a very annoying sharp spike in the upper mids at around ~3k.
> 
> Anyone experience anything simillar? This is the same reason i hate the SR325is with a passion.


So... there's definitely a rise into the 3kHz region, but that rise is what defines a midrange as neutral or balanced, rather than warm, dark, bright, cold, recessed, pushed back, smoothed over, V-shaped, etc.

Of course the ZS6 is still somewhat U/V-shaped despite the flattish mid-range


----------



## kokakolia

Superluc said:


> I think that the v-shaped tuning they do, especially on multidrivers with BAs, it's not random at all, as it may be something that can confirm to the user, with clarity and elevated treble, the presence of the BA itself.
> 
> If you want something flat or dark-warm, it may be better for you to avoid their multidriver line. At least, until they release one pair with a lot different tuning in mind and clarify that neutral sign objective.
> 
> ...



Grado? Ha! I used to have some SR60s. And there's something so weird about the sound: it's definitely sharp. But the treble is actually rolled off. The upper mid-range is boosted to the high heavens. Only a clueless person tuning by ear could achieve a sound like that. The quality is pretty bad actually. The price is high.

In my opinion, Grado is overhyped garbage. Buy a Koss KSC75 instead and save your money.


----------



## randomnin

vector84 said:


> So... there's definitely a rise into the 3kHz region, but that rise is what defines a midrange as neutral or balanced, rather than warm, dark, bright, cold, recessed, pushed back, smoothed over, V-shaped, etc.
> 
> Of course the ZS6 is still somewhat U/V-shaped despite the flattish mid-range


Off-topic, but I've always been meaning to ask this question - how is 3kHz mids? I mean 4kHz is the highest note on an average piano. It's no high hats, but on a frequency generator stuff above 2,5kHz already seem like a very high sound.


----------



## vladstef

randomnin said:


> Off-topic, but I've always been meaning to ask this question - how is 3kHz mids? I mean 4kHz is the highest note on an average piano. It's no high hats, but on a frequency generator stuff above 2,5kHz already seem like a very high sound.



Well, every sound in real life is complex, meaning that it's never a pure fixed frequency but there are many secondary harmonics which colorize the sound and are used to differentiate between different sounds which have same main frequency. That's why frequencies around 7KHz are the sibilant area, this is where S, T, Z and other "harsh" sounds have a lot of these secondary harmonics and if a headphone has a peak in that area, it's considered sibilant. Mids are usually where you expect the primary (strongest) harmonic of the sound to be and it can go up to 4-5KHz but also goes higher for some digital sounds and even some instruments, obviously human voice has main frequencies somewhere lower and obviously secondary harmonics go even above 20KHz easily. This is not exactly scientific, it's how I can explain it just using my high school knowledge...

So, most of the music ends up to 5KHz lets say, but everything above it is important as these frequencies additionally color the sound and are necessary for the sound stage, something that people call airy sound, or simply put, this is treble.
Feel free to correct me if something is very wrong here and I'll edit my answer.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 5, 2017)

vladstef said:


> That's why frequencies around 7KHz are the sibilant area, this is where S, T, Z and other "harsh" sounds have a lot of these secondary harmonics and if a headphone has a peak in that area, it's considered sibilant.


Sibilance in vocals is actually a narrow band noise profile typically peaking in that area, but that's where sibilance from things other than vocals (or other noise like percussion) can come into play for sure.


randomnin said:


> Off-topic, but I've always been meaning to ask this question - how is 3kHz mids? I mean 4kHz is the highest note on an average piano. It's no high hats, but on a frequency generator stuff above 2,5kHz already seem like a very high sound.


To add to vladstef's definition, "lows", "mids", "highs" in terms of fundamental tones all fall into the bass to mids range in terms of frequencies, the fundamentals of the highest notes on a piano only reach into the upper mids in terms of frequency and little else reaches beyond lower mids, beyond that lies noise and overtones.


----------



## Francisk

I've done my fair share of de-essing of recorded vocals in the studio and sibilance is not a fixed frequency for every vocals recorded. The sibilant frequency band changes from each person recorded, even different genders (male or female) or different condenser microphone used will result in different sibilant frequency band. In order to do effective de-essing, you'll need to tune into the sibilant frequency on a case by case basis.


----------



## vector84

Francisk said:


> I've done my fair share of de-essing of recorded vocals in the studio and sibilance is not a fixed frequency for every vocals recorded. The sibilant frequency band changes from each person recorded, even different genders (male or female) or different condenser microphone used will result in different sibilant frequency band. In order to do effective de-essing, you'll need to tune into the sibilant frequency on a case by case basis.


Yup, those are just simplistic examples.  This came up earlier but what actually tends to bring out sibilance is where ringing is occurring, which only partially relates to a specific frequency peak, that's just an average peak for sibilant speach, which while defined as narrow band noise, actually covers a comically wide band with a decent amount of energy - like 500Hz-120kHz or some such.


----------



## Superluc

kokakolia said:


> Only a clueless person tuning by ear could achieve a sound like that.


On an entire range of products ? Nope. It's just that scratching-head exist on nature


----------



## stryed

RomStar said:


> Now recently I got a pair of Swing Ie800 and my God was it good. It's sadly very bright like the kzs, but for $9 USD? It's an absolute Steal. It also comes with a cheap hard case, but I ain't complainin. Don't let its price fool you tho, other than say sub bass and instrument separation (which isn't bad but not amazing), it far out classes Zircons and classic budget picks for me (better than the ATEs I own, which isn't modified)



Bought 2 Swing IE800 as gifts to replace the KZ ZS5s, as they weren't fans of over ears or had tiny ears. IE800 is tiny!!!!

I took advantage of giving the Swings a whirl and I didn't want to give them away hhaha. Much smoother and natural sounding without hard treble spike of the ZS5, but perhaps slightly less soundstage and detail (slightly! Did not have more than 10hours burn-in , if that even is a thing). 
I'll definitely order a new Swing for myself as they're fun to listen to without harshness as some others have reported.

Swings got blacklisted as blatant copies but the KZ are doing the exact same thing...Not saying that that is ok, but they shouldn't be snubbed.


----------



## RomStar (Nov 6, 2017)

stryed said:


> Bought 2 Swing IE800 as gifts to replace the KZ ZS5s, as they weren't fans of over ears or had tiny ears. IE800 is tiny!!!!
> 
> I took advantage of giving the Swings a whirl and I didn't want to give them away hhaha. Much smoother and natural sounding without hard treble spike of the ZS5, but perhaps slightly less soundstage and detail (slightly! Did not have more than 10hours burn-in , if that even is a thing).
> I'll definitely order a new Swing for myself as they're fun to listen to without harshness as some others have reported.
> ...


Actually be careful with swing, as posted before my pair had a cracked shell and the left bud had a tendency to cut off (apparently this was only my pair and others havnt reported this, but I fixed mine and it's explained later) 

Now this is interesting,  I still love my swings. It has a faster bass response than the zs5 and are an absolute steal. The fact they sound so good for $15 Aud (10 USD) is pretty crazy. Hence I kept my pair. Thankfully the left ear piece has fixed itself somehow and I hope it doesn't die on me. So far they are fully functional and I can live with cosmetic damage

This is funny, because I was gonna suggest @kokakolia give them a try. Not saying you must buy them, since you're not the biggest fan of bright sounding iems. However the swings aren't extremely bright and it's more tame than the Zs5 for sure. Now here is a quick zs5 comparison

Swings have bright highs, but they are not nearly as bright as the Zs5. And not siblilant at all (compared to zs5). The mids sound a bit more recessed to me but deff have a lot of detail. The low end is actually very good as well, with very quick bass response. You can enjoy listening of pop and jazz sound subliminal. My only gripe is however the sub bass, which rolls off and isn't really prevalent. Overall, these are a steal, and me liking them after defects is very surprising indeed

However, with the Zs5 being $20, I must say, I think it's a better option if someone isn't too bothered about bright highs (foam tips do wonder). But the swings literally hold their ground and shouldn't be judged on price alone

Note: The mic looks very very cheap and I wish there was a non Mike version. The cable is very meh but at least it's tangle resistant (and thank God not flat). There is microphonics due to the thick plasticy cable, but unless you run with it, there should be 0 issues.

I can post pics or do a more detailed analysis if anyone wants a comparison, but the swings are a very special pair of iems indeed. It's a pair that should be enjoyed irrespective of its price (Zircons and other budget hype can't really compare to it under the sub 20$ category Imo)


----------



## CoiL (Nov 6, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> I haven't seen any Kz product that wasn't between 16 and 32 Ohm and thus source matching for all the Kz products should be pretty straight forward.


 KZ ANV 2nd edition I measured was over 36 Ohms.



Slater said:


> Funny you should mention the bass definition on the ZS6 vs ZS5. I was just thinking about that yesterday (because my ZS5 v2 arrived). I was expecting the ZS5 v2 to sound nearly identical to the ZS6, so I was surprised that the ZS6 had a noticeable difference in bass.
> 
> Well, I ran across this photo a few days ago that has the ZS5 v1, ZS5 v2, and ZS6 all lined up. And low and behold you can see that the inside vent (ie the 'bass vent') is about 50% smaller on the ZS6 than on both the ZS5 v1 and ZS5 v2. (Click photo for larger view)
> 
> ...


Seems like same case with ATE FF-mod. Will certainly try out (intended to do that long ago when I got my ZS5 but haven`t had time for testing).



khighly said:


> *(1)I never trust anyone here. *Someone whines about high sibilance and then I get it and I'm like "where are the highs you're complaining about, they're detailed and amazing"? Then someone just removes to BA's *(2)* *like an idiot* and only has two DD's with one giving you 15Hz - 400Hz and one giving you 500Hz to 5Khz now and nothing above. Just buy Tennmak Pro's with upgraded mcx cables at that point.
> 
> My favorite thing was when they released the ZS5v1's and everyone was like *(3)"Wow these are so much better and the highs are so much more controlled than the ZST". No. Wrong. The ZS5v1 has the same, if not more piercing highs *and I love it. It may be because there's more filling in the middle frequencies below those highs, but they're not any less sibilant than the ZST's.
> 
> Unless a large group of people in here are complaining about a specific issue,* (4)I don't care about personal reviews.*


1) If You don`t trust anyone here - why should anyone trust You either?
2) Calling ppl names is not nice and I bet he knows more about what he is doing than You.
3) ZS5v1 vs. ZST highs are different for sure. If You don`t hear difference, something must be "wrong" in Your audio chain or hearing. No pun intended.
4) Personal reviews make up gereral opinion and share valuable specific information. Why would we care about Your uninformative subjective bashing opinions?

Stop derailing and bashing in this thread, please.


----------



## mono-type

Just received my ES3. Bought it along with the OFC cable for ZST/ED12.

 

Bought this out of hype I've read on this thread. These are definitely comfortable IEMs, almost at par with the ZS3, and it looks cool, too. Regarding the sound, is it just me, or the highs and mids are a bit recessed? Someone here said that sound-wise, these are on par with the Slater-modded ZS3's (in which I have, except I retained the red mesh; only the black foam inside was removed), but I'm hearing otherwise.


----------



## drag0nslayer

mono-type said:


> Just received my ES3. Bought it along with the OFC cable for ZST/ED12.
> 
> 
> 
> Bought this out of hype I've read on this thread. These are definitely comfortable IEMs, almost at par with the ZS3, and it looks cool, too. Regarding the sound, is it just me, or the highs and mids are a bit recessed? Someone here said that sound-wise, these are on par with the Slater-modded ZS3's (in which I have, except I retained the red mesh; only the black foam inside was removed), but I'm hearing otherwise.


Never trust hype, you'll always regret buying on.the basis of hype


----------



## mono-type (Nov 6, 2017)

drag0nslayer said:


> Never trust hype, you'll always regret buying on.the basis of hype


Haha, true that on some cases.  I don't regret buying them, though. I'm just sharing what I thought about the sound of the ES3.

Another observation on the sound: I'm hearing some sibilance. Are IEMs with BAs expected to have some sibilance?


----------



## drag0nslayer

mono-type said:


> Haha, true that on some cases.  I don't regret buying them, though. I'm just sharing what I thought about the sound of the ES3.
> 
> Another observation on the sound: I'm hearing some sibilance. Are IEMs with BAs expected to have some sibilance?


Yes usually they have, but it depends on listener's signature also.


----------



## vladstef

drag0nslayer said:


> Yes usually they have, but it depends on listener's signature also.



You can't really say something like this. Good BA like any other good driver doesn't have sibilance. Cheap BA drivers that KZ makes are a different story however and shouldn't be used to make such generalizations.
The question of sibilance goes beyond just the driver though, resonant peaks always form in the nozzle of an IEM as well as our ear canals and both DDs and BAs should be tuned in regards to the exact casing/insertion dept being implemented. (This is where things get very tricky...)


----------



## drag0nslayer

vladstef said:


> You can't really say something like this. Good BA like any other good driver doesn't have sibilance. Cheap BA drivers that KZ makes are a different story however and shouldn't be used to make such generalizations.
> The question of sibilance goes beyond just the driver though, resonant peaks always form in the nozzle of an IEM as well as our ear canals and both DDs and BAs should be tuned in regards to the exact casing/insertion dept being implemented. (This is where things get very tricky...)


Its obvious, this is KZs thread and what i referred to is about KZs.


----------



## mono-type (Nov 6, 2017)

On the other hand, right now I just received the black T400 knockoffs I ordered from a local online store last week. Bought 5 pairs of those foam tips for around US$ 9.50. These definitely improved the sound of my ZS6, and thus more enjoyable to listen to. These foam tips brought out more bass, and the ear-piercing treble and sibilance tamed. I'm finally satisfied with my ZS6 with these tips!






@Slater: Since you asked for a photo of the tips last time and I just received them today, here it is. Here's how they look like.


----------



## HerrWallen

mono-type said:


> Just received my ES3





mono-type said:


> These are definitely comfortable IEMs



I received a pair of ES3s as well and have really enjoyed them during the weekend, straight out of the box I'd say I like them more than the ZS6s (talking pure sound-sig here). 
The only issue I'm having is what I can only assume is a horrible driver-flex on the left piece, at worst cutting out the DD completely. If I re position the ear-piece it comes back and sounds great. 
Does anyone have any ideas what to do about it?


----------



## mono-type (Nov 6, 2017)

HerrWallen said:


> I received a pair of ES3s as well and have really enjoyed them during the weekend, straight out of the box I'd say I like them more than the ZS6s (talking pure sound-sig here).
> The only issue I'm having is what I can only assume is a horrible driver-flex on the left piece, at worst cutting out the DD completely. If I re position the ear-piece it comes back and sounds great.
> Does anyone have any ideas what to do about it?


Strange. In my case, I enjoy the ZS6 more than the ES3, especially if I use the knockoff T400 foam tips with it. At the moment, I find the ES3's highs and mids to be a bit recessed. Maybe the ES3's sound sig would improve with further use/burn-in?


----------



## HerrWallen

mono-type said:


> I find the ES3's highs and mids to be a bit recessed


Compared to the ZS6, absolutely! I absolutely love the mid-range presentation on the ZS6 but I find them to be a bit too treble-heavy, throws the balance IMHO.

I'm not sure if this is to be expected from BA-based IEMs but I find them slightly incoherent at times (or maybe it is just the cheab/budget ones), like the bass/lower mid-range doesn't really "connect" with the upper mid-range/treble in a natural way. 
The ES3 sound more .. hmm .. organic to my ears, despite the BA..


----------



## mono-type

HerrWallen said:


> Compared to the ZS6, absolutely! I absolutely love the mid-range presentation on the ZS6 but I find them to be a bit too treble-heavy, throws the balance IMHO


To my ears, the ZS6, especially when with foam tips, it has everything, from lows to highs. XD Detailed despite the bass. 

Just tried using the same foam tips on my ES3, and it still has the recessed highs and mids; not as detailed as I'm expecting. TBH, I'm quite underwhelmed with it, as I'm expecting a sound signature akin to Slater-modded ZS3s. Maybe a burn-in (whether it's a fact or a myth) would improve this, I hope.


----------



## Superluc

mono-type said:


> I'm quite underwhelmed with it, as I'm expecting a sound signature akin to Slater-modded ZS3s.


Are you sure that it was the ES3 ? Vidal find the ZS3 modded to be similar to the ZSE.


----------



## kokakolia

drag0nslayer said:


> Never trust hype, you'll always regret buying on.the basis of hype



Amen! Brother! 

Thankfully, KZs are cheap. So I'm glad that I got to form my own opinion on the "Legendary" ATEs and ZSEs for the price of a lunch for two. The ZS5s are still on the way.


----------



## Viber

kokakolia said:


> Amen! Brother!
> 
> Thankfully, KZs are cheap. So I'm glad that I got to form my own opinion on the "Legendary" ATEs and ZSEs for the price of a lunch for two. The ZS5s are still on the way.




Don't forget about modding and EQ as well.  There's usually a way to make chi-fi work for your taste.


----------



## young59

Damm I just realized the true value of amplification even for tiny iem like the KZ ZS3 I listening to Post Malone- I Fall Apart on my Mi A1 which has a dedicated amp(don't know the specifications) and around 1 min the bass kicks in and it felt so good.Then I tried playing it off my laptop but this time the bass was non existent.So guys are there and cheap amps that I can invest because I am wondering how much I must be missing with my ZS5(V2) if they are not being properly powered.


----------



## Slater

HerrWallen said:


> I received a pair of ES3s as well and have really enjoyed them during the weekend, straight out of the box I'd say I like them more than the ZS6s (talking pure sound-sig here).
> The only issue I'm having is what I can only assume is a horrible driver-flex on the left piece, at worst cutting out the DD completely. If I re position the ear-piece it comes back and sounds great.
> *Does anyone have any ideas what to do about it?*



I don't have the ES3, so I don't know if/where it's driver vents are located. But on other similar models, it's located in front of the DD driver. In any case, sometimes they get clogged with glue from the factory, and you can use a sewing needle, thumb tack, or safety pin to check the vent hole (and clear it if necessary). Just be careful not to enlarge the hole over what it is now, or you'll cause a sound difference from side to side.

Here's what it looks like on the *ZST* (click photo for larger view):


----------



## Viber

young59 said:


> Damm I just realized the true value of amplification even for tiny iem like the KZ ZS3 I listening to Post Malone- I Fall Apart on my Mi A1 which has a dedicated amp(don't know the specifications) and around 1 min the bass kicks in and it felt so good.Then I tried playing it off my laptop but this time the bass was non existent.So guys are there and cheap amps that I can invest because I am wondering how much I must be missing with my ZS5(V2) if they are not being properly powered.



That's what me and Slater been saying about 200 pages ago, the ZS3 are very source dependent !  Same thing with HAVI B3...bad source and people complain about how crappy they are, good source and they rave about their abilities.

I just received GGMM A1 portable amp, i will publish my review this week or next week.  So far this thing is very powerful for it's size and price   Will try them with ZS3 later on...


----------



## Trisse

Hi think this cable looks really nice 
New 2.5mm KZ ZS3 ZS5 Cable 2pin Silver Plated and copper Cable Earphone Upgrade Cable for KZ earphone KZ ZS3 ZS5
http://s.aliexpress.com/vU36R7Fz 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## young59

Viber said:


> That's what me and Slater been saying about 200 pages ago, the ZS3 are very source dependent !  Same thing with HAVI B3...bad source and people complain about how crappy they are, good source and they rave about their abilities.
> 
> I just received GGMM A1 portable amp, i will publish my review this week or next week.  So far this thing is very powerful for it's size and price   Will try them with ZS3 later on...


Yeah please do post the link once its done. Right now I am looking at the fiio Q1(mark 1) it has the best power output and it can function as both amp and Dac+Amp and will probably will be enough for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Ynot1

Trisse said:


> Hi think this cable looks really nice
> New 2.5mm KZ ZS3 ZS5 Cable 2pin Silver Plated and copper Cable Earphone Upgrade Cable for KZ earphone KZ ZS3 ZS5
> http://s.aliexpress.com/vU36R7Fz
> (from AliExpress Android)



Seems pricey just for a 2.5mm jack. Granted diy route could be more expensive if you know what I mean.


----------



## loomisjohnson

stryed said:


> Bought 2 Swing IE800 as gifts to replace the KZ ZS5s, as they weren't fans of over ears or had tiny ears. IE800 is tiny!!!!
> 
> I took advantage of giving the Swings a whirl and I didn't want to give them away hhaha. Much smoother and natural sounding without hard treble spike of the ZS5, but perhaps slightly less soundstage and detail (slightly! Did not have more than 10hours burn-in , if that even is a thing).
> I'll definitely order a new Swing for myself as they're fun to listen to without harshness as some others have reported.
> ...


+1. the swing is an unsung gem--everyone who's gotten one seems to love it. i wouldn't think to compare it to the zs5, which is much bigger sounding, but it's nice to see them getting some recognition


----------



## Ynot1 (Nov 6, 2017)

young59 said:


> Yeah please do post the link once its done. Right now I am looking at the fiio Q1(mark 1) it has the best power output and it can function as both amp and Dac+Amp and will probably will be enough for the foreseeable future.



Opting to skip Q1 MK II is leaving something left on the table. Going balance means getting on the train. But which train depends on the person.


----------



## Podster

Trisse said:


> Hi think this cable looks really nice
> New 2.5mm KZ ZS3 ZS5 Cable 2pin Silver Plated and copper Cable Earphone Upgrade Cable for KZ earphone KZ ZS3 ZS5
> http://s.aliexpress.com/vU36R7Fz
> (from AliExpress Android)



What cracks me up about Woo's ad is he is offering a 2.5 Balanced tip cable and no where in this ad does it say this cable is balanced!


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> What cracks me up about Woo's ad is he is offering a 2.5 Balanced tip cable and no where in this ad does it say this cable is balanced!



Also in same ad he has a nice SPC cable for $19 11.11, but when you click the link to go to the product page, the 11.11 price is not $19, but ~25% higher.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Also in same ad he has a nice SPC cable for $19 11.11, but when you click the link to go to the product page, the 11.11 price is not $19, but ~25% higher.



Hmm, bait and switch?


----------



## maxxevv

Ynot1 said:


> Seems pricey just for a 2.5mm jack. Granted diy route could be more expensive if you know what I mean.



Yes but if one isn't DIY inclined thats just how costs go with things. 

A KZ original upgrade cable + 2.5mm TRRS plug would be less than US$10/- DIY'ed if one has the tools and ability to do it.


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## vector84 (Nov 6, 2017)

HerrWallen said:


> I received a pair of ES3s as well and have really enjoyed them during the weekend, straight out of the box I'd say I like them more than the ZS6s (talking pure sound-sig here).
> The only issue I'm having is what I can only assume is a horrible driver-flex on the left piece, at worst cutting out the DD completely. If I re position the ear-piece it comes back and sounds great.
> Does anyone have any ideas what to do about it?





Slater said:


> I don't have the ES3, so I don't know if/where it's driver vents are located. But on other similar models, it's located in front of the DD driver. In any case, sometimes they get clogged with glue from the factory, and you can use a sewing needle, thumb tack, or safety pin to check the vent hole (and clear it if necessary). Just be careful not to enlarge the hole over what it is now, or you'll cause a sound difference from side to side.
> 
> Here's what it looks like on the *ZST* (click photo for larger view):


Slater is spot on about what's wrong with them, but I feel the need to point out (and you can see something similar in those pics) that the ES3 has a fabric mesh covering the hole - this mesh is likely clogged with glue, causing flex (and elevated bass response), but you can't just punch it out to the size of the hole it covers - you will lose all bass if you do that (no, seriously, *all* bass on the ES3...).

I had a crude test setup to retune mine, but I can at least share what generally worked based off one (and only one) side being clogged this way for me:

Punching through the fabric and glue clog with a relatively thin sewing needle (much smaller than the actual hole in the plastic) came quite close to proper tuning.   However I ended up punching it out too much, and having to cover the vent in some tape and punch a hole in the tape to get them tuned right.


Punching through a working unclogged mesh likewise dropped bass by an enormous amount btw... I did some tinkering with my ES3s


----------



## Podster

You know it's been over a year since the Head-Fi Mods banned this AliEx seller and I'm surprised no one has caught on that he just added the Woo in front of his old name! I'm pretty sure it was something like this that got him banned originally, iirc it was another AliEx seller that got mad and exposed some  shenanigans like this I may not be 100% right on this but it was for shady dealings for sure. I know for a while the minute his name was mentioned you were cautioned by a Mod


----------



## CoiL

Guys, what is the consensus @ KZ HD9 ? I still haven`t tried it but it is tempting me with its price 5.2$ @ 11.11
Maybe going to try out HD9 with white shells and see if they are "improvement" to ATx line, if not, will open the guts.


----------



## HerrWallen

Slater said:


> I don't have the ES3, so I don't know if/where it's driver vents are located



Yeah, the vent on the ES3 is pretty much in the same location, good to know that there is some remedy here.. I'll give them some surgery and hope that fixes it! Thank you for your detailed explanation!



vector84 said:


> the ES3 has a fabric mesh covering the hole



Are you talking about the vent or the nozzle? I can't see a mesh inside the housing at the vent atm, need better lighting for that.


----------



## HerrWallen

HerrWallen said:


> I can't see a mesh inside the housing at the vent atm, need better lighting for that.



@vector84 duh, ok I can see now exactly what you mean .. I'll go slow with a tiny needle  Thank you!


----------



## vector84

HerrWallen said:


> @vector84 duh, ok I can see now exactly what you mean .. I'll go slow with a tiny needle  Thank you!


If there's just glue in the hole itself you might just be able to clear it too, without punching through, but mine had a glue clog on the back side of the fabric.


----------



## oyobass

Wiljen said:


> The M6 Pro is the most balanced of the group listed by a considerable distance.  Both the Zs3 and Zst are V shaped and bass heavy.   Having said that, the M6 pro I have sits in my drawer untouched and unused as it is quite possibly the most clinical, analytical, and outright boring headphone I own.


I own the M6 Pro, ZST and ZS5. In order of time spent using them, it is:

1) ZST- by a large margin (most fun sound signature, better isolation, better fit, stays in my ears better. Best for casual listening and monitoring in a live band situation.
2) ZS5- More detail, less bass. More recessed upper mids. Best (to me) for classical, ambient and acoustic music, anything that benefits from airy detail and enhanced soundstage
3) M6 Pro- Sits in the junk basket in the bathroom, with spare change, beard trimmer, fingernail clippers and extra speaker cable pin connectors. Used to be my go-to stage monitors but I was always disappointed by the sound and the way they fit my ears. Tried every tip they came with... the best fit I could get was with large New Bee foams turned backwards, but the seal and the fact that I always had to reseat them between/durring songs really killed any trust or enjoyment of them. On the bright side, I still use the nice case and shirt clip daily with my ZSTs. Soundwise, with a good (temporary) seal, they sounded okay, but with a lack of low bass and an upper mid/low treble spike that irritated me like fingernails on a blackboard. I really tried to like them and used them often before the KZs, but I'm glad they're on backup-to-the-backup status now.
As with anything, YMMV,etc.. We all hear things differently and form our own opinions. That is what makes this hobby so interesting...


----------



## oyobass

AudioObsession said:


> Oh, and one last important thing:
> For some reason the ZS6 doesn't hurt my ears.. I can only take the ZS5 for 1-1/2 hours maybe 2, but the ZS*6* is surprisingly comfortable...



That is good news! My ZS6 just hit the US today. After hanging out in Customs, they should be at my door (relatively) soon.

I had to slightly round off the corners on the inner side of my ZS5 with a bit of sandpaper on order to make them bearable comfort-wise.


----------



## AudioObsession

oyobass said:


> That is good news! My ZS6 just hit the US today. After hanging out in Customs, they should be at my door (relatively) soon.
> 
> I had to slightly round off the corners on the inner side of my ZS5 with a bit of sandpaper on order to make them bearable comfort-wise.


I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.. I wore them for 3+ hours the other day and they felt just fine.. My ZS5 I could take maybe an hour... To me none of the In-Ear style KZs are as comfortable as the ES3 (so far) but the ZS6 are definitely tolerable for fairly long listens.. as always, YMMV.


----------



## AudioObsession

oyobass said:


> 1) ZST- by a large margin (most fun sound signature, better isolation, better fit, stays in my ears better. Best for casual listening and monitoring in a live band situation.



Same here! 
I haven't used the ZST on stage yet, because I rarely play out live, but I had them plugged into my AxeFx II (Guitar modeling processor) and found that they sound amazing!
I find the ZST a bit painful for extended periods, but some days they don't bother me at all.. 
I'm thinking on adding some thin sticky backed neoprene hobby foam to the ear facing side of them so they rest in my ears a little better, but all in all I love the ZST...Even though at times they can be a bit bright; but once you get used to them, they are pretty amazing. 

Also, is your ZS5 the version 1 (one BA in the nozzle) or a Version 2? (2 BAs in the nozzle)?

The reason I ask is, I have the v.2 and I couldn't take the added 2nd BA in the nozzles, but once I removed it, I am in love with them (even though they hurt my ears after a while).


----------



## Podster

oyobass said:


> That is good news! My ZS6 just hit the US today. After hanging out in Customs, they should be at my door (relatively) soon.
> 
> I had to slightly round off the corners on the inner side of my ZS5 with a bit of sandpaper on order to make them bearable comfort-wise.



I'd take my ZS6 and ZST's over the ZS5V1's every time now that I've spent a week or two with each


----------



## CoiL

Want to try out ZS3 on 11.11... just to use shells for modifications ...is there SQ or build quality difference between glossy vs. matte version?


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Want to try out ZS3 on 11.11... just to use shells for modifications ...is there SQ or build quality difference between glossy vs. matte version?



Never got the glossies so I can't say but they sure look sweet So Coil I've been searching KZ on AliEx and cannot seem to find this HD9, can you send me a link? THX


----------



## oyobass

AudioObsession said:


> I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.. I wore them for 3+ hours the other day and they felt just fine.. My ZS5 I could take maybe an hour... To me none of the In-Ear style KZs are as comfortable as the ES3 (so far) but the ZS6 are definitely tolerable for fairly long listens.. as always, YMMV.


I don't have the ES3s, but I find the ZSTs quite comfy.


AudioObsession said:


> Same here!
> I haven't used the ZST on stage yet, because I rarely play out live, but I had them plugged into my AxeFx II (Guitar modeling processor) and found that they sound amazing!
> I find the ZST a bit painful for extended periods, but some days they don't bother me at all..
> I'm thinking on adding some thin sticky backed neoprene hobby foam to the ear facing side of them so they rest in my ears a little better, but all in all I love the ZST...Even though at times they can be a bit bright; but once you get used to them, they are pretty amazing.
> ...



I have the v.1. I admire you for getting up close and personal with the inner workings of your ZS5, I haven't gotten frustrated enough with the sound of mine yet to tear it open and mess around. 

BTW, that is the same yardstick I use for upgrading/modifying guitars. I wait 'til I'm so upset with the sound or playability that I'm willing to risk total destruction to make it work for me in the way I think it should, (or I just get rid of it or ignore it, LOL)


----------



## oyobass

Podster said:


> I'd take my ZS6 and ZST's over the ZS5V1's every time now that I've spent a week or two with each


Nice collection!

I'm feeling a little less apprehensive about the ZS6 purchase now, thanks!


----------



## nicolaspiazza

Hi, guys. I'd like some help making up my mind about the KZs or chinese IEM. My wife is on a trip to Shangai till november 15 and she'll buy some stuff at gearbest to be delivered at the hotel. I was reading a lot about the ZS5 and was going to ask her to buy this one, till I found the v1 and v2 stuff, then I went back some pages here and I still can't decide.

I like to listen to jazz, hip-hop like Nujabes, chillhop and old school heavy metal, like King Diamond. Is there any better options in this price range now that ZS5 isn't as great as it was?

Thanks!


----------



## paulindss

nicolaspiazza said:


> Hi, guys. I'd like some help making up my mind about the KZs or chinese IEM. My wife is on a trip to Shangai till november 15 and she'll buy some stuff at gearbest to be delivered at the hotel. I was reading a lot about the ZS5 and was going to ask her to buy this one, till I found the v1 and v2 stuff, then I went back some pages here and I still can't decide.
> 
> I like to listen to jazz, hip-hop like Nujabes, chillhop and old school heavy metal, like King Diamond. Is there any better options in this price range now that ZS5 isn't as great as it was?
> 
> Thanks!



To be buyed in gearbest, and to stay in the Kz Line, the Kz ES3 looks promissing to listen to bass oriented music like Chillhop, hip hop. Plus, you said that you like Jazz, and, besides the "problem" - Its a problem just to SOME people aparently, some really likes the treble response. One of the major characteristics of Zs5 v1, v2 and Zs6 are the details, and the airy, huge soundstage, what suits amazingly well jazz. So, if you can have the 2 of them, it would be interesting. Or you can opto to have just one of them, but keep in mind that zs5, and zs6 continue to be a hell of a IEM, so don't be afraid. The Zst are similar to zs5 in terms of signature, i would go for a es3 and a zs, those are different, zs's aren't bad, and with the 2, you have a contrast in signature. Different case if you get a zst and a zs', beacuse they are more close to zs5, zs6 in terms of signature. 

These are opinions based on what i have read here and other places, i only have zst, so, don't take it for granted.


----------



## Saoshyant

Gearbest finally got back to me, and the shipping company has lost my package, so no ZS6 for me for now at least.  They offered to either resend or issue me a credit so I could re-order, and with the 11.11 sale coming up, I'd rather get the credit and see if I can save a few dollars on the re-order.  Might find something else with the little bit of extra money that'll make for a nice consolation for the lost package.  I'm sure I'll find something else interesting to order, perhaps a pen.


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 6, 2017)

oyobass said:


> I have the v.1. I admire you for getting up close and personal with the inner workings of your ZS5, I haven't gotten frustrated enough with the sound of mine yet to tear it open and mess around.
> 
> BTW, that is the same yardstick I use for upgrading/modifying guitars. I wait 'til I'm so upset with the sound or playability that I'm willing to risk total destruction to make it work for me in the way I think it should, (or I just get rid of it or ignore it, LOL)




Thanks! 
I was at the end of my rope on both the ZS5v.2 and my ZS6..
It was mainly the sounds of cymbals that drove me crazy.. Especially Hi-Hats (on many recordings) sounding like "CCcCccHhHhHhtTtTtTSSssSSsT!!!!" lol!
They still are a bit harsh but at least it's not as loud as before.

Anyway, from what I've heard; the v.1 doesn't seem to have the sibilance that the v.2 (and ZS6) seem to have.

But it all depends on the music you listen too, how your ears work, etc etc.

However, -If- you are really frustrated with your ZS6's10k highs, then you might want to try a simple mod that is easily undoable.

Just get some thin foam (the thicker the foam, the more highs it will cut, too thick will cut mid treble and volume) cut it into a little disc that is just slightly over the size of the nozzle on your foam ear tips..
{The disc doesn't have to be perfectly round}
Then just stuff it all the way down into the ear tip until it sits on the metal screens of the ZS6's nozzles.
Just make sure it's slightly over sized so it doesn't fall out into your ears!  lol!
I check mine every once in a while as well to make sure they are still seated well in there.. 
[_***EDIT: ONLY do this if you use memory foam tips... The memory foam seems to grip the little foam discs so they don't fall out in your ears..Silicone & rubber tips are probably not safe for this kind of mod._]

I have actually been a professional stringed instrument (guitar, bass, cello, violin, etc) builder for more then 35 years, so I'm pretty comfortable with this kind of stuff.. (If you want to see one of my creations, just look at my profile/avatar pic)


----------



## young59

Ynot1 said:


> Opting to skip Q1 MK II is leaving something left on the table. Going balance means getting on the train. But which train depends on the person.


Yeah I get that the Q1 mark II has better output when balanced but then buying balanced cable that cost more than my iem itself I just can't justify that. Even if I end up going balanced it future I would probably just end up diying the cable I just don't get why are they so expensive they just have their ground cable separated right?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

People have been talking about the ZSR for over a year. I wouldn't get too excited for it.


----------



## young59

SomeGuyDude said:


> People have been talking about the ZSR for over a year. I wouldn't get too excited for it.


Those were the ZSR Pro not the ZSR.
The ZSR Pro's box was leaked that said 10 drivers.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

young59 said:


> Those were the ZSR Pro not the ZSR.
> The ZSR Pro's box was leaked that said 10 drivers.



I didn't say anything about drivers.

I said that the ZSR has been a rumored product for ages now.


----------



## vector84

young59 said:


> Yeah I get that the Q1 mark II has better output when balanced but then buying balanced cable that cost more than my iem itself I just can't justify that. Even if I end up going balanced it future I would probably just end up diying the cable I just don't get why are they so expensive they just have their ground cable separated right?


Technically it's not a ground in a balanced setup unless you're using even more points of connection than a 2.5mm TRRS - in 4 wire balanced both lines are hot and driven in opposition. 

Don't see why you couldn't re-terminate a KZ upgrade cable as it appears to be a 4 wire run, though I admit *I've not tried*.


----------



## oyobass

AudioObsession said:


> Thanks!
> I was at the end of my rope on both the ZS5v.2 and my ZS6..
> It was mainly the sounds of cymbals that drove me crazy.. Especially Hi-Hats (on many recordings) sounding like "CCcCccHhHhHhtTtTtTSSssSSsT!!!!" lol!
> They still are a bit harsh but at least it's not as loud as before.
> ...


That is one gorgeous looking guitar build. Jaw dropping, really. 
I don't mind the treble spike, I kind of require it due to years of standing next to rock and metal drummers, as well as running sound for loud bands for years. I wish we had IEMs back in the day...


----------



## CoiL

Podster said:


> Never got the glossies so I can't say but they sure look sweet So Coil I've been searching KZ on AliEx and cannot seem to find this HD9, can you send me a link? THX


One GB seller has glossy ones according to buyer comments and pics. Don`t know which one should I take?

HD9 is available here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...phones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html

....but sellers description is weird, if not 100% wrong and just for advertising (ATR driver is certainly different driver than ATE - not just looks difference according to seller).
Seller describes HD9 as "Entry level" IEM and ATE as "higher tier" hi-fi IEM.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> They are both cables advertised for the ZST (ie with the bent 90-degree ZST plugs at the 2-pin ends).
> 
> The one I’m using on the ZS5 and ZS6 is the one with the silver aluminum 2-pin plugs where people chop off the translucent plastic tips to get them to fit flush on the ZS5 and ZS6. It also has a straight silver aluminum 3.5mm plug, not the molded 90-degree rubbery plug you usually see on all of the other KZ cables. And yes it’s braided with 6 individual wires, with what appears to be braided shielding on each individual wire. An absolutely beautiful cable and cheap price for what you get.
> 
> ...


I just got my silver braided cable today. Before I was using the standard KZ silver upgrade cable. Both the original cable and the KZ upgrade cable tangled for me. Not as badly as another set of IEMs that I swear has a cable that's been formed to immediately tangle into knots as soon as either end is disconnected. 

The braided cable is very nice. Sits well. I used it for a half hour in cable down style just to see what sort of microphonics it had. The answer: hardly any. I've since been using it over ear and I'm liking it, lots. 

I just got the Fiio Q1 mk II which has balanced output and I thought I'd see what all the hype was using the ZS6 since I'm pretty happy with their sound. But the price of balanced cables is crazy. So I was thinking. I can get a 4 pole 2.5mm plug for just a few bucks and another one of these cables for 10 bucks. Seems like just a few minutes and I'll have a balanced cable for under 15 bucks. I've checked this cable and it is indeed just a pair of braided individual pair cables that split into their separate singly braided cables to each ear. So its just a few seconds with a multimeter to determine left ground from right ground and I'm in business. No? Or am I missing some magic about balanced cables?


----------



## AudioObsession

oyobass said:


> That is one gorgeous looking guitar build. Jaw dropping, really.
> I don't mind the treble spike, I kind of require it due to years of standing next to rock and metal drummers, as well as running sound for loud bands for years. I wish we had IEMs back in the day...



Thanks man! 
I have chopped a LOT of wood in my day I guess.

Ugh! Yeah, I hear you man... Metal/Rock drummers can be brutal that way..


----------



## eaglesgift

AudioObsession said:


> Thanks man!
> I have chopped a LOT of wood in my day I guess.
> 
> Ugh! Yeah, I hear you man... Metal/Rock drummers can be brutal that way..


Would you mind if I sent you a PM asking for some advice about repairing a guitar?


----------



## HerrWallen

Slater said:


> you can use a sewing needle, thumb tack, or safety pin to check the vent hole





vector84 said:


> Punching through the fabric and glue clog with a relatively thin sewing needle



I just wanted to thank you for the help, it worked wonders. I used a really thin beading needle and had to punch a few holes in the mesh. 
Funny thing is that it didn't really seem to affect sound (not to an extent that I could notice anyway), the flex on the other hand is completely gone now.

The more I listen to them, the more I like the ES3s! Very pleasing signature, despite it's flaws (I notice a slight grain in the mid-range and the general refinement could be better), for the price it's an excellent pair of earphones.


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 7, 2017)

eaglesgift said:


> Would you mind if I sent you a PM asking for some advice about repairing a guitar?


Sure! I'll do my best to help. 

EDIT: It's almost 3am here in the USA though, so I'll probably have to get back to you tomorrow..


----------



## HerrWallen

mono-type said:


> Just tried using the same foam tips on my ES3, and it still has the recessed highs and mids



Yeah, I tried my Complys on them and didn't like the sound. They affected the treble response the most, stick with the silicone for these (I found that the best for me are either diy-hybrids or regular but stiffer than average).
I'd guess that the mid-range technically is recessed but I don't really find it distant or muted, the ZS6 in comparison feels more forward and energetic. Like I said, I love them for it but at times it comes off a tad bit unnatural to me.


----------



## eaglesgift

AudioObsession said:


> Sure! I'll do my best to help.
> 
> EDIT: It's almost 3am here in the USA though, so I'll probably have to get back to you tomorrow..


No worries - thanks very much!


----------



## MAntunes

From NiceHCK's twitter:







He says that they are 1DD+2BA.


----------



## CoiL

I WANT`EM!!!


----------



## Saoshyant

Yet again, Green is my color of choice.


----------



## mono-type (Nov 7, 2017)

HerrWallen said:


> Yeah, I tried my Complys on them and didn't like the sound. They affected the treble response the most, stick with the silicone for these (I found that the best for me are either diy-hybrids or regular but stiffer than average).


Yep. The stock KZ star tips are still best suited for the ES3. BTW, seems like burning-in the ES3 for a few hours was worth it. Dunno if it's just placebo effect, but the bass is now more pronounced, compared to the anemic bass I heard when I used it for the first time.


MAntunes said:


> From NiceHCK's twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm digging the red one. I like everything in red. Nice to see KZ having red in their color options, just like they did with the ZS6. Would like to see more KZ IEMs that have red as an option. The only thing I don't like is their choice of font for Left/Right. The one on ZS3 is tolerable IMO, but this one on ZSR....ugh. It looks sooooooo tacky and gaudy.

Also, judging from that pic, is the shell design for ZSR similar to ZS3? If so, then I might take a stab at this one when it's out. XD


----------



## Superluc

Well... my ZS6 it's finally here 

Feel damn solid and look soooo good ( sorry Campfire )

Better do some burn-in, for now


----------



## HerrWallen

mono-type said:


> BTW, seems like burning-in the ES3 for a few hours was worth it



Well, mine has been running trough most of the weekend with me just having the occasional listening here and there, I can't speak for burn-in but I do it with every set I get none the less.
One thing though (and this has been iterated numerous times in this thread), I'm running these trough my Dragonfly Red. 
A good source goes a long way to bring out the best in these and the DFR with its firm bass and bright-ish nature cleans up the bottom and puts sparkle to the top.


----------



## mono-type (Nov 7, 2017)

HerrWallen said:


> I can't speak for burn-in but I do it with every set I get none the less.


Same here. Whether it's a fact or a myth, placebo or not.

On a side note, it seems like the ES3's really needed to be burned-in (again, whether it's a fact or a myth), as I seem to genuinely enjoy these now. Aside from the bass boost, the mids and highs are now less recessed compared to when I'm using it yesterday. Now I could really say that I didn't regret buying these!


----------



## Superluc

Wiljen said:


> Anybody else got a nintaus X10 or Crazier R3 player?  George sent me their version to review (Crazier R3) so I was comparing it to the Nintaus branded along with the Cayin N3, Benjie K9, and the Ruizu A50 and I may have stumbled on something.   The Crazier and Nintaus are both slightly warm and slightly dark daps and they pair very well with the Zs5(v1) and Zs6.


If wasn't for the lacking of custom EQ...


----------



## ExabytE (Nov 7, 2017)

I wanted to upgrade the cable on my matte KZ ZS3 so i bought a silver kz cable on, let's call the shop gearbetter. But it seems that the pins are too thin for my headphones. On gearbetter they're selling the ZS3's but in glossy version and no one seems to complain about the silver cable. Is there something wrong with my headphones or the cable itself?
I made a short video to show that the silver cable is clearly too easy to pull out. 
Anyone had the same problem as me?


----------



## Superluc (Nov 7, 2017)

Older ZS3 mount a plug for 0.78 cables, but silver KZ cable are 0.75. The problem may be this.


----------



## Podster

ExabytE said:


> I wanted to upgrade the cable on my matte KZ ZS3 so i bought a silver kz cable on, let's call the shop gearbetter. But it seems that the pins are too thin for my headphones. On gearbetter they're selling the ZS3's but in glossy version and no one seems to complain about the silver cable. Is there something wrong with my headphones or the cable itself?
> I made a short video to show that the silver cable is clearly too easy to pull out.
> Anyone had the same problem as me?




Probably got .78 instead of .75 pins Larger the number thinner the pin like wire gauge.

THX @CoiL , looks like this is what they are calling the HD9. Seems like when I first saw this one it was called something else but can't dig it up!


----------



## Mariusik

ExabytE said:


> I wanted to upgrade the cable on my matte KZ ZS3 so i bought a silver kz cable on, let's call the shop gearbetter. But it seems that the pins are too thin for my headphones. On gearbetter they're selling the ZS3's but in glossy version and no one seems to complain about the silver cable. Is there something wrong with my headphones or the cable itself?
> I made a short video to show that the silver cable is clearly too easy to pull out.
> Anyone had the same problem as me?



Sorry for the mismatching cable but LOL, the music you put in the background


----------



## ExabytE (Nov 7, 2017)

"Larger the number thinner the pin"  that seems a little strange to me. Isn't the number the diameter of the pin itself?
@Mariusik the funeral theme fits nicely and it was already on the mobile youtube app when i was uploading it.


----------



## Mariusik

I think the phone realised what were you going to upload and the artificial intelligence kicked in


----------



## Podster

ExabytE said:


> "Larger the number thinner the pin"  that seems a little strange to me. Isn't the number the diameter of the pin itself?
> @Mariusik the funeral theme fits nicely and it was already on the mobile youtube app when i was uploading it.



Only two sizes I'm aware of are the .75 (Most all KZ's) and .78, you may be right and maybe the .78 is a thicker pin


----------



## Superluc

First try with ZS6 + new bee foams + OFC cable, with my Schiit Fulla 2. Can't resist.

Even with foams, i find the highs too splashy on cymbals and some voices prone to sibilance, but not enormously. With a source with custom EQ, to put down a bit the response on 8k and 10k, it's easy doable. Comfort it's very good on my ears.

Ok... let's putting them back to noise burning...


----------



## ExabytE

Podster said:


> Only two sizes I'm aware of are the .75 (Most all KZ's) and .78, you may be right and maybe the .78 is a thicker pin


This would mean my older KZ had the .78 and I bought the right cable .75 as advertised on gearbetter. So I'll just go and buy a new KZ . I don't really like the shape of ZS5. Do you think the ZST would work even with the straight cable or should I just buy the ZS3 again? Or is the ZS5 so much better that I shouldn't care about the looks?


----------



## Podster

ExabytE said:


> This would mean my older KZ had the .78 and I bought the right cable .75 as advertised on gearbetter. So I'll just go and buy a new KZ . I don't really like the shape of ZS5. Do you think the ZST would work even with the straight cable or should I just buy the ZS3 again? Or is the ZS5 so much better that I shouldn't care about the looks?



iirc Z did have a few iem's with .78 somewhere along the line but I think most have been standardized on the .75 now straight and curved plugs. I know I run this cable on both my ZST and it is stellar(Some of these KZ fellows have way more cable knowledge than I though)!


----------



## oyobass

ExabytE said:


> This would mean my older KZ had the .78 and I bought the right cable .75 as advertised on gearbetter. So I'll just go and buy a new KZ . I don't really like the shape of ZS5. Do you think the ZST would work even with the straight cable or should I just buy the ZS3 again? Or is the ZS5 so much better that I shouldn't care about the looks?


Im listening to my ZSTs with the stock straight cable off of my ZS5 right now. One side slid right in, the other required a bit more force to be seated firmly. I find the straight cable a little more comfortable gives the cable a bit more clearance on its way around the top of my ear.


----------



## Carrow

ZS6s arrived today, right on schedule - Gearbest's shipping service takes three weeks to get these to Ireland regardless of whether you ask for tracked or untracked shipping. They're super comfortable; I'm using the largest Starline tips with them at the moment. Maybe a little sibilant but I'm only using my laptop at the moment; something tells me a player with good output and maybe an amp will smooth them out. 

Feels like more care was taken with packaging and presentation this time around - would have loved some foams but can't really complain for the price!


----------



## wastan

Podster said:


> You know it's been over a year since the Head-Fi Mods banned this AliEx seller and I'm surprised no one has caught on that he just added the Woo in front of his old name! I'm pretty sure it was something like this that got him banned originally, iirc it was another AliEx seller that got mad and exposed some  shenanigans like this I may not be 100% right on this but it was for shady dealings for sure. I know for a while the minute his name was mentioned you were cautioned by a Mod





CoiL said:


> Want to try out ZS3 on 11.11... just to use shells for modifications ...is there SQ or build quality difference between glossy vs. matte version?


Only difference is some of the early matte ones had different size 2 pin connectors.


Superluc said:


> Older ZS3 mount a plug for 0.78 cables, but silver KZ cable are 0.75. The problem may be this.



This is correct. Early matte zs3 do not fit .75 cable.


----------



## oyobass

According to parcelmonitor.com, my green ZS6 is in my town for delivery today! 

Not too bad, ordered on Oct 26 for $25.99 and paid an extra $1.69 for registered trackable airmail.

I'm hoping they arrive before I head to band practice tonight, although using them for stage monitoring before burn-in may prove to be brutal... I'll have my ZSTs along too, just in case...

Can't wait to see and hear these gorgeous IEMs in person!


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Never got the glossies so I can't say but they sure look sweet So Coil I've been searching KZ on AliEx and cannot seem to find this HD9, can you send me a link? THX



Search for QKZ DM200. Easier to find them that way.


----------



## TJK81

oyobass said:


> According to parcelmonitor.com, my green ZS6 is in my town for delivery today!
> 
> Not too bad, ordered on Oct 26 for $25.99 and paid an extra $1.69 for registered trackable airmail.
> 
> ...



Lucky guy... I purchased mine on October 17th. Dispatched on October 19th. No tracking info via GB page (paid extra 2USD for tracking infos via LURAM) till now. But on Monday last week i recieved info directely from GB support, that the parcel was delivered to the destination country (Czech republic). If it's true Czech post is piece of .... In fact... yes they are. I refuse to believe that custums take so long in Czech (i never purchased item for more than 22USD incl.postage) yet.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Search for QKZ DM200. Easier to find them that way.



I thought that shell was originally offered as a QKZ model as several sellers tried to get me on board! THX Slater, wastan and Coil


----------



## mochill

Zsr coming soon, it is a 3 way hybrid again


----------



## mochill




----------



## Slater (Nov 7, 2017)

ExabytE said:


> I wanted to upgrade the cable on my matte KZ ZS3 so i bought a silver kz cable on, let's call the shop gearbetter. But it seems that the pins are too thin for my headphones. On gearbetter they're selling the ZS3's but in glossy version and no one seems to complain about the silver cable. Is there something wrong with my headphones or the cable itself?
> I made a short video to show that the silver cable is clearly too easy to pull out.
> Anyone had the same problem as me?



None of the KZ upgrade cables fits on the old matte ZS3. The pins on the silver upgrade cables are all too SMALL to fit the LARGER 0.78mm plug on the matte ZS3.

If you look around on Aliexpress however, you CAN buy 0.78mm 2-pin cables. They are not made by or for KZ though - they are advertised for other brands that use 2-pin cables (I think Shure or something).

I remember reading a while ago that 0.78mm 2-pin is kind of the standard that everyone uses. It's KZ that decided to be the black sheep, choosing to instead go with 0.75mm pins. I think the reason was that they always knew they were going to produce a line of upgrade cables. So by using oddball 0.75mm pins, users would be locked into a proprietary cable size (and thus forced to buy KZ cables). The strategy obviously paid off for them, because so many of us have numerous KZ upgrade and bluetooth cables as a result. More revenue = more profit.

It's no different than disposable shaver manufacturers making their handle only fit their model refill cartridges, Apple's 30-pin and lightning connectors, or printer manufacturers making their ink/toner cartridges only fit their models. If those things were completely standardized in dimensions, there would be more competition because you could technically buy your stuff from anyone.



Podster said:


> Probably got .78 instead of .75 pins Larger the number thinner the pin like wire gauge.





ExabytE said:


> "Larger the number thinner the pin"  that seems a little strange to me. Isn't the number the diameter of the pin itself?





Podster said:


> Only two sizes I'm aware of are the .75 (Most all KZ's) and .78, you may be right and maybe the .78 is a thicker pin



The size is referring to diameter in mm, not wire gauge size. So all KZs except the matte ZS3 uses 0.75mm pins (including all of the KZ upgrade cables). The matte ZS3 uses slightly larger 0.78mm pins.

Granted, the 0.03mm difference is ridiculously small, but it's just enough such that the 0.75mm cables fall out of the matte plugs. You CAN however, go the other direction - ie buying GENERIC 0.78mm 2-pin cables, and cramming them into 0.75mm pinned KZ models. It just forces open the stock 0.75mm plug a bit. I don't recommend this however, as the 0.75mm pins become permanently deformed/enlarged (to 0.78mm), and you'll only be able to use 0.78mm cables from that point on.



ExabytE said:


> This would mean my older KZ had the .78 and I bought the right cable .75 as advertised on gearbetter. So I'll just go and buy a new KZ . I don't really like the shape of ZS5. Do you think the ZST would work even with the straight cable or should I just buy the ZS3 again? Or is the ZS5 so much better that I shouldn't care about the looks?



There's an easy fix if you're interested. All you do is take your 0.75mm cable and tin the 2-pins with solder. You only need a very thin coating of solder. You're just thickening up the pins. The nice thing about this method is that you can tweak it until you get a perfect fit - tin the pins with a little more solder to get a tighter fit; wick away a bit of solder to get a looser fit.

As far as using the ZS3 cable on ZST, I personally would not. The plastic doesn't fit all that tightly, and besides the straight cable goes around the ear at an awkward angle (it creates extra slack and unnecessary strain on the cable). The ZST style 2-pin end is so much better for around the ear, due to it's 90-degree bend. YMMV though, so if you already own the straight cable, by all means try it out on the IEMs that require the ZST-style plug. Maybe you'll like it just fine.


----------



## TJK81

mochill said:


>


The green one looks so biting. Really looking forward. Definitely my another purchase. Hope GB will have exclusivity for them as well as they had on ES3's... Of course with same nice price


----------



## oyobass

TJK81 said:


> Lucky guy... I purchased mine on October 17th. Dispatched on October 19th. No tracking info via GB page (paid extra 2USD for tracking infos via LURAM) till now. But on Monday last week i recieved info directely from GB support, that the parcel was delivered to the destination country (Czech republic). If it's true Czech post is piece of .... In fact... yes they are. I refuse to believe that custums take so long in Czech (i never purchased item for more than 22USD incl.postage) yet.


Well, here's hoping it gets to you soon!


----------



## ExabytE

Slater said:


> None of the KZ upgrade cables fits on the old matte ZS3. The pins on the silver upgrade cables are all too SMALL to fit the LARGER 0.78mm plug on the matte ZS3.
> 
> If you look around on Aliexpress however, you CAN buy 0.78mm 2-pin cables. They are not made by or for KZ though - they are advertised for other brands that use 2-pin cables (I think Shure or something).
> 
> ...


Thanks alot for the wonderful info. Not just you, but everyone that helped.
As for the tinning and fitting it ZST's: I just ordered the glossy ZS3's and also the ZST's (the colorful ones are beautiful), so I'm gonna use the silver wire with the new ones and decide if I need another silver one for the ZST's.


----------



## Carrow

TJK81 said:


> Lucky guy... I purchased mine on October 17th. Dispatched on October 19th. No tracking info via GB page (paid extra 2USD for tracking infos via LURAM) till now. But on Monday last week i recieved info directely from GB support, that the parcel was delivered to the destination country (Czech republic). If it's true Czech post is piece of .... In fact... yes they are. I refuse to believe that custums take so long in Czech (i never purchased item for more than 22USD incl.postage) yet.



Hopefully you get those soon as I ordered the day before (16th October) and they just arrived today, postage to Ireland. Can't imagine they'll take much longer for you...??


----------



## paulindss

Anyone knows a good quality Foam in Aliexpress to recommend ? I buyed a bunch from the banned seller and they lasted almost nothing, poor quality. Or, are foams supposed to be so fragile ?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I'm still on my first pair of foamies from the seller that slater posted awhile back.  They've lost their shine but are still in decent condition.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Just wanted to post a pic of my KZ ZS6 (Green, Black and Red) along with my AMPs - iFi iDSD Micro Black Label, STAX SRM 353X. Can't wait to add KZ ZS6 Grey color to my collection.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 7, 2017)

wastan said:


> This is correct. Early matte zs3 do not fit .75 cable.





Slater said:


> The matte ZS3 uses slightly larger 0.78mm pins.


FYI there's glossies out there that have the same deal as the oldest mattes (my ZS3 is glossy, crushed sound tube and 0.78 pins that won't take any of my KZ upgrade cables) 

I don't think it's particularly common to find them, but just in case


----------



## tworule

paulindss said:


> Anyone knows a good quality Foam in Aliexpress to recommend ? I buyed a bunch from the banned seller and they lasted almost nothing, poor quality. Or, are foams supposed to be so fragile ?


This : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...32732040972.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.4RLQgG


----------



## TJK81

Carrow said:


> Hopefully you get those soon as I ordered the day before (16th October) and they just arrived today, postage to Ireland. Can't imagine they'll take much longer for you...??


I hope so. I really can't wait for them. Especialy, when i see you guys here, enjoying them


----------



## Podster

vector84 said:


> FYI there's glossies out there that have the same deal as the oldest mattes (my ZS3 is glossy, crushed sound tube and 0.78 pins that won't take any of my KZ upgrade cables)
> 
> I don't think it's particularly common to find them, but just in case



I never bought the glossies however I do love the way they look, my factory cables that came with the ZS3's never fit snug from the get go. I had to physically spread the pins just to keep them in so I'm sure none of the .75 aftermarkets would have ever worked. I have so many iem's now it's not even worth it at this point to shop out a .78 pair for them.


----------



## oyobass

paulindss said:


> Anyone knows a good quality Foam in Aliexpress to recommend ? I buyed a bunch from the banned seller and they lasted almost nothing, poor quality. Or, are foams supposed to be so fragile ?


I really like the New Bee foam tips. They have been really durable (for foams). I'm still on my first set after a month and a half (2 months on the 14th), although I don't use them 24/7 like some do, and I keep the earphones in a case when not using them. Totally happy with them.


----------



## Slater

paulindss said:


> Anyone knows a good quality Foam in Aliexpress to recommend ? I buyed a bunch from the banned seller and they lasted almost nothing, poor quality. Or, are foams supposed to be so fragile ?





SomeTechNoob said:


> I'm still on my first pair of foamies from the seller that slater posted awhile back.  They've lost their shine but are still in decent condition.



Yup, me too (I'm going on 2 months of use with my 1st pair). I liked them so much that I bought another batch from the same seller.

I now have enough foam to literally last for years, all for under $20usd.

It also really helps extend the life of the foam tips if you:

clean your ears before each use
store your IEMs in a carry case between uses
don't remove the tips from the IEM unnecessarily


----------



## Slater (Nov 7, 2017)

Folks, this was posted in the Chinese IEM thread, and I wanted to post it here as well.

I know many of us are considering 11.11 items.

User @Mariusik posted a very helpful free Chrome extension (as well as other browsers) that is similar to camelcamelcamel, except for Aliexpress. I like the Chrome extension because it's all automatic on any Aliexpress link you visit. You can also set price drop notifications, and a few other nice features.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-868#post-13834537

I already used it to go through my list of planned 11.11 purchases, and found out that I was going to be ripped off on at least 1/2 of my list due to artificial price increases (some 11.11 SALE prices TWICE as high as regular prices barely a month ago ie end of September/early October). I knew some sellers raised the prices slightly before 11.11 so they could have bigger "deals" for 11.11, but I didn't expect to see some of the price increases as high as I was seeing (and in so many cases).

With that in mind, I am planning on getting future items around the end of September instead of 11.11.

This way:

I don't have to play all of the BS coupon games in hopes of getting a decent price
I don't have to wait for 11.11 and race with people before stuff sells out
I won't have to wait for the ridiculously longer shipping time after the flood of 11.11 sales
I don't risk stressing out by cutting it to close to xmas due to the longer shipping times

Obviously, that doesn't mean that there's no deals to be found for 11.11, but I'm definitely going to be smarter about it.

Also, Gearbest has a lot of 11.11 deals (with special coupon codes posted in the Gearbest thread on HF) that are cheaper that the best 11.11 Aliexpress deals I could find for the same items.

Huge kudos to @Mariusik for posting the extension.


----------



## Superluc

Slater said:


> I already used it to go through my list of planned 11.11 purchases, and found out that I was going to be ripped off on at least 1/2 of my list due to artificial price increases (some 11.11 SALE prices TWICE as high as regular prices barely a month ago ie end of September/early October). I knew sellers raised the prices slightly before 11.11 so they could have bigger "deals" for 11.11, but I didn't expect some of the price increases to be this high (and in so many cases).


Some items are expected to be, on 11.11, even pricier than before all the talking about it...


----------



## Slater

tworule said:


> This : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...32732040972.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.4RLQgG



This is the link to the ones I've been buying (same seller, same tips, better price): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40p...Caliber-Ear-Pads-cap-for-ear/32749908913.html

I also like this seller because the tips come in a nice protective plastic case.


----------



## oyobass

Just found a handy site to use for roughly comparing headphones/earphones: 
http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html
You can use it for quick comparisons of different sets of phones at several preset frequencies and check what *you* hear and how the response curve changes with each set. Instructions (for "hearing test") are on the page. 
Please heed all warnings so as not to damage your hearing!
Remember, this is not very scientific, but will give you a relative idea of one set versus another...


----------



## Superluc

Superluc said:


> First try with ZS6 + new bee foams + OFC cable, with my Schiit Fulla 2. Can't resist.
> 
> Even with foams, i find the highs too splashy on cymbals and some voices prone to sibilance, but not enormously. With a source with custom EQ, to put down a bit the response on 8k and 10k, it's easy doable. Comfort it's very good on my ears.
> 
> Ok... let's putting them back to noise burning...


mmm... it seem to me that, after some hours, the lows are now much more present and defined. They lacking at first, make me listen more the highs.
I think that the burn-in is affecting mainly the two dynamics, balancing the sound.

I'm starting to understand why some users use them only with foams, without mods, even if i still find some tracks to be a bit harsher than wanted, but mastering and source come also into this, and mine is not considered to be delicate sounding. 

So yeah... i can concur with Slater that the quality of the highs is good, but they are elevated that bit that sometimes desire some adjustments, on EQ or volume.


----------



## Superluc

I can also add that the starline's bore is a bit too small for the ZS6. To me it sounds better with something wider, like the silicon tips of new bee, the ones in the package with both them and foams.

Another problem i've notice, but a lot more personal, is that foams are longer than silicon tips, and that push the rear of the ZS6 more to the back on my ear, hurting me a bit on prolonged usage. 

I think of try to create an hybrid tips with the new bee's silicon, follow Hakuzen advice on gel foams, but i'm not sure about the size. I use the medium of silicon tips, but i find more easy to put inside the smaller size of foams. For now i need to pick some of those gel, of different size, and try different combo.


----------



## bsoplinger

I've seen mention of using foam tips for the ZS5 and ZS6 so often that I just can't help but wonder why my ears are so different from everyone else. Or am I just wearing them very differently than everyone else? I've tried the pseudo foam KZ ones, the New Bee ones, generic ones that are both softer (meaning they stay compressed longer making it easier to insert into my ears) and stiffer (which return to shape quickly enough that insertion is difficult). In all cases I can't get a seal so I have no bass. I bought M, L and S when available and have tried them all. I got a few pairs of actual Comply brand with other IEMs that I tried also.

I tried the KZ hard silicone ones with the slots that radiate out from the opening. Good seal but reduced, too much, mids and highs. I have a bunch of generic wide bore silicone ones and these give me a more comfortable seal with clearer sound than the included silicone tips. But even the wide bore,  which are very thin which is why I think they're more comfortable, aren't comfortable enough to wear for more than about an hour. If I just place the earphone without a tip against my ear and press I don't feel any discomfort such as if there was a bump or sharp angle that would indicate that the shape was intrinsically wrong for my ears. So despite the odd angular look it seems like they should be comfortable.

Its not just the KZs that are problematic comfort wise. Others include TFZ Exclusive 5, Mee Audio Pinnacle PX, Mee Audio M6 Pro, Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD. I can wear the Thinksound rain3, SoundMAGIC E10 and PL50, Brainwavz B150, Marshall Mode and Senzer.

Short of getting new ears suggestions anyone?


----------



## Slater (Nov 7, 2017)

Superluc said:


> I can also add that the starline's bore is a bit too small for the ZS6. To me it sounds better with something wider, like the silicon tips of new bee, the ones in the package with both them and foams.
> 
> Another problem i've notice, but a lot more personal, is that foams are longer than silicon tips, and that push the rear of the ZS6 more to the back on my ear, hurting me a bit on prolonged usage.
> 
> I think of try to create an hybrid tips with the new bee's silicon, follow Hakuzen advice on gel foams, but i'm not sure about the size. I use the medium of silicon tips, but i find more easy to put inside the smaller size of foams. For now i need to pick some of those gel, of different size, and try different combo.



You can take scissors and just trim a bit off the back of foam tips (making them shorter). That's what I do when the insertion depth gets interfered with due to the length of foam tips.

Another option is to get the "ball" style foam tips. They are a bit more ergonomic, and are shorter than the wedge style tips.



As far as your comment about gel foam tips, I made a set of hybrid type tips by dipping standard foam tips into plastidip. I first thinned the plastidip until fairly thin (according to the instructions), held the foam tips with a sewing needle, dipped the outside with the plastidip (1 coat), and tapped them to remove all excess plastidip. The result is a very thin and even coating of plastidip on the foam. I then propped them up to dry by poking the other end of the sewing needle into a piece of cardboard. Once dry (overnight), I just removed the sewing needle and I was ready to go. They last indefinitely, because the foam is coated on the outside with a coating of silicone-like rubber. The isolation and comfort benefits of foam tips, easy to keep clean, and stronger bass (like silicone a silicone tip provides).


----------



## Tim Le

bsoplinger said:


> I've seen mention of using foam tips for the ZS5 and ZS6 so often that I just can't help but wonder why my ears are so different from everyone else. Or am I just wearing them very differently than everyone else? I've tried the pseudo foam KZ ones, the New Bee ones, generic ones that are both softer (meaning they stay compressed longer making it easier to insert into my ears) and stiffer (which return to shape quickly enough that insertion is difficult). In all cases I can't get a seal so I have no bass. I bought M, L and S when available and have tried them all. I got a few pairs of actual Comply brand with other IEMs that I tried also.
> 
> I tried the KZ hard silicone ones with the slots that radiate out from the opening. Good seal but reduced, too much, mids and highs. I have a bunch of generic wide bore silicone ones and these give me a more comfortable seal with clearer sound than the included silicone tips. But even the wide bore,  which are very thin which is why I think they're more comfortable, aren't comfortable enough to wear for more than about an hour. If I just place the earphone without a tip against my ear and press I don't feel any discomfort such as if there was a bump or sharp angle that would indicate that the shape was intrinsically wrong for my ears. So despite the odd angular look it seems like they should be comfortable.
> 
> ...



Have you tried Symbio Mandarin tips? They're foam on the inside and silicon on the outside.


----------



## Slater (Nov 7, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> I've seen mention of using foam tips for the ZS5 and ZS6 so often that I just can't help but wonder why my ears are so different from everyone else. Or am I just wearing them very differently than everyone else? I've tried the pseudo foam KZ ones, the New Bee ones, generic ones that are both softer (meaning they stay compressed longer making it easier to insert into my ears) and stiffer (which return to shape quickly enough that insertion is difficult). In all cases I can't get a seal so I have no bass. I bought M, L and S when available and have tried them all. I got a few pairs of actual Comply brand with other IEMs that I tried also.
> 
> I tried the KZ hard silicone ones with the slots that radiate out from the opening. Good seal but reduced, too much, mids and highs. I have a bunch of generic wide bore silicone ones and these give me a more comfortable seal with clearer sound than the included silicone tips. But even the wide bore,  which are very thin which is why I think they're more comfortable, aren't comfortable enough to wear for more than about an hour. If I just place the earphone without a tip against my ear and press I don't feel any discomfort such as if there was a bump or sharp angle that would indicate that the shape was intrinsically wrong for my ears. So despite the odd angular look it seems like they should be comfortable.
> 
> ...



Do foam earplugs fit your ears and seal well enough to isolate properly? It sounds like you just have really large ear canals (if you've even tried L size foams with the same problem).

What size silicone tips do you wear? If you require the large ones, then you may want to even look for XL size tips. I am pretty sure JVC Spiral Dots are available in XL.

Another option is to make your own hybrid silicone/foam tips using disposable foam earplugs. This is an excellent example of this method: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1647#post-13829756

I've made a few pairs like this over the years, and they work out great. They're easy to make as well - only take a few minutes.


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> I've seen mention of using foam tips for the ZS5 and ZS6 so often that I just can't help but wonder why my ears are so different from everyone else. Or am I just wearing them very differently than everyone else? I've tried the pseudo foam KZ ones, the New Bee ones, generic ones that are both softer (meaning they stay compressed longer making it easier to insert into my ears) and stiffer (which return to shape quickly enough that insertion is difficult). In all cases I can't get a seal so I have no bass. I bought M, L and S when available and have tried them all. I got a few pairs of actual Comply brand with other IEMs that I tried also.
> 
> I tried the KZ hard silicone ones with the slots that radiate out from the opening. Good seal but reduced, too much, mids and highs. I have a bunch of generic wide bore silicone ones and these give me a more comfortable seal with clearer sound than the included silicone tips.


I'm not a huge fan of SpinFits personally, but curious if you've tried them?  They have fairly small bores, so they can have some effect on the sound related to that, but what you're describing sort of sounds like some of the tip bores might be partially obscured by your ear anatomy, which will have a quite considerable effect. They're also made from extremely thin material that's pretty comfortable.


> But even the wide bore,  which are very thin which is why I think they're more comfortable, aren't comfortable enough to wear for more than about an hour. If I just place the earphone without a tip against my ear and press I don't feel any discomfort such as if there was a bump or sharp angle that would indicate that the shape was intrinsically wrong for my ears. So despite the odd angular look it seems like they should be comfortable.
> 
> Its not just the KZs that are problematic comfort wise. Others include TFZ Exclusive 5, Mee Audio Pinnacle PX, Mee Audio M6 Pro, Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD. I can wear the Thinksound rain3, SoundMAGIC E10 and PL50, Brainwavz B150, Marshall Mode and Senzer.
> 
> Short of getting new ears suggestions anyone?


A bit more detail about why they aren't comfortable might be useful - bigger tips have already been tossed out, but I'd also toss out longer/shorter tips (versus wider) can change how your ear accommodates an IEM.


----------



## jmwreck (Nov 8, 2017)

Podster said:


> I'd take my ZS6 and ZST's over the ZS5V1's every time now that I've spent a week or two with each




We have the same cable on the ZST, what can you say about the (brown) ZS6 and (gold) ZS5 cable in terms of comfort because I think they are the same as the 1st silver cable upgrade and they work fine for me, except maybe the brown and gold won't turn green.


----------



## HiFiChris

I would love to see a yellow ZS6.


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## JayceOoi (Nov 8, 2017)

Promotion is back again... 

KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - KZHK or KZGB
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## Selenium

JayceOoi said:


> Promotion is back again...
> 
> KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - KZHK
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html



That's a hell of a deal if the ZS5 sounds anything LIKE the ZS6.


----------



## Jed1998

Is the grey a new version of ZS6 or just a new color?


----------



## Podster

jmwreck said:


> We have the same cable on the ZST, what can you say about the (brown) ZS6 and (gold) ZS5 cable in terms of comfort because I think they are the same as the 1st silver cable upgrade and they work fine for me, except maybe the brown and gold won't turn green.



I have the original KZ SP Silver cables and I'm adraid just like my TFZ 1s's silver cable the Green Goblin lirks within, they sound good but are tarning badly. Love the gold SP cable on my ZS51(looks and SQ).
So far I'm not impressed with the brown cable on the ZS6, sounds vailed and I've ordered two more of the braided Silver ZST cable. This is the most open and airy cable on ZST, ZS5 and ZS6 so far so I'll have it on all 6 pairs(gotta have thise red ZS6 now and I'm with Chris would love a ZS6 in Yellow) Hooe to find good deals on both cables and red ZS6 on 11/11


----------



## bsoplinger

@vector84 @Slater @Tim Le thanks for the suggestions. I'd already seen the make your own from the 3M ear plug solution before but the Symbio Mandarin suggestion made me decide to get a box of them and give it a try. Figure $20 with the plugs in hand in 2 days beats paying for someone in Hungary to do the cutting and boring then waiting for them to ship here.

They also address, partly, the size issue. I've mostly tried small and medium sized foam since I tend to use medium silicone tips. I believe I use small for the thinkSOUND rain3 and large for the Marshall Mode but medium for the others. I also ordered, with Amazon 2 day delivery, large sized New Bee tips. Mostly the generic Chinese ones I've gotten are medium sized. I saw the link that @Slater posted for $20 pairs and I plan to get a few nozzle diameters in large sizes. So within a few days I'll have some more larger foam tips to try and then a bit later even more. 

Comfort issue. Trying to describe why I feel uncomfortable is a bit difficult. Partly it is that I believe I have an issue with the silicone not allowing my skin to breathe. When I remove any brand IEM with silicone tips my ears feel itchy and if I use a Q-tip inside my ear, and yes I know you're not supposed to, I have moisture on the cotton. That is noticeable wetness although no discoloration like I'd get with ear wax. Its as if my skin in my ears are soaked in sweat although I don't believe that one has sweat glands inside the ear. That's a big part of why I keep trying foam tips because it seems to me that they're more breathable than silicone. I also feel discomfort that's pressure related when I exceed an hour. Pretty much just what I'd feel if I just inserted a too large tip initially. Again another reason I keep trying foam figuring it'd be less rigid and therefore less likely to develop the stuffed too full feeling.


----------



## Wiljen (Nov 8, 2017)

Superluc said:


> If wasn't for the lacking of custom EQ...



You didn't read my review   The Crazier has a custom EQ and different firmware than the x10.   George is looking into putting it on sale at GB so keep an eye out .  I might have suggested the x10 was cheaper and that dropping the price would help.


----------



## Superluc

Wiljen said:


> You didn't read my review   The Crazier has a custom EQ and different firmware than the x10.   George is looking into putting in on sale at GB so keep an eye out .  I might have suggested the x10 was cheaper and that dropping the price would help.


Thanks. I had see only reviews of the Nintaus, so i was thinking that they be the same product.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 8, 2017)

JayceOoi said:


> Promotion is back again...
> 
> KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - KZHK or KZGB
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


I think I will take one ZS5 (don`t care if it is v1 or v2) and put it inside ZS3 shells (without 1 BA if 2 is present) ;P 
Actually would like to try ZST DD + ZS5 mid-DD+BA.


----------



## Superluc

Superluc said:


> I think of try to create an hybrid tips with the new bee's silicon, follow Hakuzen advice on gel foams, but i'm not sure about the size. I use the medium of silicon tips, but i find more easy to put inside the smaller size of foams. For now i need to pick some of those gel, of different size, and try different combo.


Tried with a spare pair of KZ's gel, but the inner bore is so small on them, it's not an easy task.


----------



## Bosk

Slater said:


> This is the link to the ones I've been buying (same seller, same tips, better price): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/40p...Caliber-Ear-Pads-cap-for-ear/32749908913.html
> 
> I also like this seller because the tips come in a nice protective plastic case.


Many thanks for the link!

Just one question please, do the T400 4.9mm bore versions fit the KZ ZS5/ZS6 best? Sorry if this has been answered already.


----------



## Superluc

Superluc said:


> Tried with a spare pair of KZ's gel, but the inner bore is so small on them, it's not an easy task.


Small size of KZ's gel fit exactly the medium Starline, without cutting nothing.


----------



## Superluc

It's a shame that they are too big for my ears... but may be useful for who normally use larger tips. Just try it


----------



## oyobass

bsoplinger said:


> I've seen mention of using foam tips for the ZS5 and ZS6 so often that I just can't help but wonder why my ears are so different from everyone else. Or am I just wearing them very differently than everyone else? I've tried the pseudo foam KZ ones, the New Bee ones, generic ones that are both softer (meaning they stay compressed longer making it easier to insert into my ears) and stiffer (which return to shape quickly enough that insertion is difficult). In all cases I can't get a seal so I have no bass. I bought M, L and S when available and have tried them all. I got a few pairs of actual Comply brand with other IEMs that I tried also.
> 
> I tried the KZ hard silicone ones with the slots that radiate out from the opening. Good seal but reduced, too much, mids and highs. I have a bunch of generic wide bore silicone ones and these give me a more comfortable seal with clearer sound than the included silicone tips. But even the wide bore,  which are very thin which is why I think they're more comfortable, aren't comfortable enough to wear for more than about an hour. If I just place the earphone without a tip against my ear and press I don't feel any discomfort such as if there was a bump or sharp angle that would indicate that the shape was intrinsically wrong for my ears. So despite the odd angular look it seems like they should be comfortable.
> 
> ...


On the New Bee and Comply foams, I have to put the darn thing on the nozzle backwards (with the widest end facing my ear) in order to get a good seal. On the M6 Pro, it is mandatory to do so for me, on the ZS5 and ZS6, it helps a lot too. Might be worth a try.


----------



## Slater

Bosk said:


> Many thanks for the link!
> 
> Just one question please, do the T400 4.9mm bore versions fit the KZ ZS5/ZS6 best? Sorry if this has been answered already.



Yes.


----------



## Trisse

Superluc said:


> I can also add that the starline's bore is a bit too small for the ZS6. To me it sounds better with something wider, like the silicon tips of new bee, the ones in the package with both them and foams.
> 
> Another problem i've notice, but a lot more personal, is that foams are longer than silicon tips, and that push the rear of the ZS6 more to the back on my ear, hurting me a bit on prolonged usage.
> 
> I think of try to create an hybrid tips with the new bee's silicon, follow Hakuzen advice on gel foams, but i'm not sure about the size. I use the medium of silicon tips, but i find more easy to put inside the smaller size of foams. For now i need to pick some of those gel, of different size, and try different combo.



I have the same problem with foam tips being to long! I I have yet to find a solution.

Ordered a set of round foams after the tips some here gave. Will report back how they work


----------



## Slater

Trisse said:


> I have the same problem with foam tips being to long! I I have yet to find a solution.
> 
> Ordered a set of round foams after the tips some here gave. Will report back how they work



The easy solution for foam tips that are too long (cut the bottom portion of the ear tip):


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> The easy solution for foam tips that are too long (cut the bottom portion of the ear tip):



LOL, nice Fiskars


----------



## Trisse

Slater said:


> The easy solution for foam tips that are too long (cut the bottom portion of the ear tip):



Haha ask me if I feel supid now.


What a difference! 

I could get seal before but they always fell out a little bit so I get semi seal. 

I was actually about to ask if I was alone thinking the zs5 had less bass then zs5


----------



## Podster

Trisse said:


> Haha ask me if I feel supid now.
> 
> 
> What a difference!
> ...



Tip dependent

I think I'm in the right thread

My 5, 6, 10 Rig





KZ ZS5V1, Benjie T6, Xduoo XQ-10 (another sweet sounding rig under a Benjamin)


----------



## Slater (Nov 8, 2017)

Podster said:


> LOL, nice Fiskars



The audiophile equivalent of scissors ;0)



Trisse said:


> Haha ask me if I feel supid now.
> 
> What a difference!
> 
> ...



Glad you got it all sorted out. Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best solutions.

Still try out the ball style foams when they arrive. You might like them even more (I do). Don't forget that you can trim the ball style foams as well in case you want them a little shorter.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 8, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> @vector84 @Slater @Tim Le thanks for the suggestions. I'd already seen the make your own from the 3M ear plug solution before but the Symbio Mandarin suggestion made me decide to get a box of them and give it a try. Figure $20 with the plugs in hand in 2 days beats paying for someone in Hungary to do the cutting and boring then waiting for them to ship here.
> 
> They also address, partly, the size issue. I've mostly tried small and medium sized foam since I tend to use medium silicone tips. I believe I use small for the thinkSOUND rain3 and large for the Marshall Mode but medium for the others. I also ordered, with Amazon 2 day delivery, large sized New Bee tips. Mostly the generic Chinese ones I've gotten are medium sized. I saw the link that @Slater posted for $20 pairs and I plan to get a few nozzle diameters in large sizes. So within a few days I'll have some more larger foam tips to try and then a bit later even more.
> 
> Comfort issue. Trying to describe why I feel uncomfortable is a bit difficult. Partly it is that I believe I have an issue with the silicone not allowing my skin to breathe. When I remove any brand IEM with silicone tips my ears feel itchy and if I use a Q-tip inside my ear, and yes I know you're not supposed to, I have moisture on the cotton. That is noticeable wetness although no discoloration like I'd get with ear wax. Its as if my skin in my ears are soaked in sweat although I don't believe that one has sweat glands inside the ear. That's a big part of why I keep trying foam tips because it seems to me that they're more breathable than silicone. I also feel discomfort that's pressure related when I exceed an hour. Pretty much just what I'd feel if I just inserted a too large tip initially. Again another reason I keep trying foam figuring it'd be less rigid and therefore less likely to develop the stuffed too full feeling.


Ear wax is produced by sweat glands, so there's definitely sweat glands in there 

If it's an option, you may want to ask an ENT or Audiologist about it - 20 years ago or so I got instructions from an ENT on dealing with similar problems - basically keep your ears clean and never insert a Q-Tip into your ear, but I was told you can use them to gently swab around the very outer edge (*less deep than where tips make contact*) and mop away the sweat, as most of those glands are very close to the exterior and the sweat should tend to run out of your ear, not into it unless you have particularly unusual anatomy - but that was still 20 years ago 

Personally I have some trouble with long duration wear on foams actually - that sweat drying into a thick waxy build-up is no fun at all, whereas with silicone tips I can just wipe it away.

YMMV, *I took my instructions directly from an ENT on the subject many years ago and I would strongly recommend you consider doing the same if at all possible*.  I know it might sound a bit silly to go asking your doctor about sweaty ears, but ear damage is no joke, and taking such suggestions seriously outside of the direction of a trained medical professional is dangerous territory.


----------



## Superluc (Nov 8, 2017)

Superluc said:


> I can also add that the starline's bore is a bit too small for the ZS6. To me it sounds better with something wider, like the silicon tips of new bee, the ones in the package with both them and foams.


Tried some more time... i like much more how it sounds with this wider bore silicon tips, soundstage and imaging is improved a lot. Mine perception, over foams and on this comparison, could be also affected from the distance to the bore, as it's difficult to me to have a deeper insertion with them and their normal length.  

Highs are obviously even more a problem, but more EQ do the trick to me. Now i wait for the adapter.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

JayceOoi said:


> Promotion is back again...
> 
> KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - KZHK or KZGB
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


I haven't ordered from Gearbest before, so I don't know the best way to use these...I tried to use the code and it is expired already. I have been reading up on KZ and I am interested in getting an ES3, a ZS5 and a few others, plus a silver cable and a bluetooth....is my best bet just waiting until 11/11? 
That's a great price for the Zs5, I'd be psyched to get it at that price. I saw the Es3 for like $8 the other day and somehow it was too late for that price...


----------



## Superluc

Another thing to say on ZS6: on tracks where there is no clear presence of sibilance or cymbals on the front, i'm heavenly in love with how they perform with my Fulla. They are bright on top, but full sounding, and i don't want to do permanent mod to them... one bit. 

I really hope that a swappable mod, like an impedance adapter, could easily do the trick, but maybe the firstly suggested 75 ohm is too much. I let you know, when i can.


----------



## JayceOoi

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I haven't ordered from Gearbest before, so I don't know the best way to use these...I tried to use the code and it is expired already. I have been reading up on KZ and I am interested in getting an ES3, a ZS5 and a few others, plus a silver cable and a bluetooth....is my best bet just waiting until 11/11?
> That's a great price for the Zs5, I'd be psyched to get it at that price. I saw the Es3 for like $8 the other day and somehow it was too late for that price...


Yes, 11.11 that day is the best choice. But need to be fast as well before all discount codes were used.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

JayceOoi said:


> Yes, 11.11 that day is the best choice. But need to be fast as well before all discount codes were used.


that's what i was afraid of...I'm in California, so by the time I get up on the morning of 11/11 it's all over with? Do I have to stay up until 3 am on the 10th?


----------



## JayceOoi

Cruelhand Luke said:


> that's what i was afraid of...I'm in California, so by the time I get up on the morning of 11/11 it's all over with? Do I have to stay up until 3 am on the 10th?


I believe some of the deals are already started before 11.11 actual day. Just try your luck.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

JayceOoi said:


> I believe some of the deals are already started before 11.11 actual day. Just try your luck.


cool...seems like a pretty reliable marketing scheme..."Hey check out this great price on some gear, PSYCHE! it's not anymore....but keep checking, maybe you'll get a good deal, give it a shot!"


----------



## vector84

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I haven't ordered from Gearbest before, so I don't know the best way to use these...I tried to use the code and it is expired already. I have been reading up on KZ and I am interested in getting an ES3, a ZS5 and a few others, plus a silver cable and a bluetooth....is my best bet just waiting until 11/11?
> That's a great price for the Zs5, I'd be psyched to get it at that price. I saw the Es3 for like $8 the other day and somehow it was too late for that price...


A lot of the Gearbest coupons come from the GB thread on here, and they're typically quantity and time restricted, sometimes region restricted as well, but if you check up on the GB thread they're usually not too difficult to get, and if they're not working, George from GB can often help.  GB also have done stuff with much further discounted pricing for the first few (like 10) buyers in a day, those deals tend to be much harder to catch, with much cart watching around the time they roll over required typically.

No idea about 11/11 stuff


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 8, 2017)

vector84 said:


> By most accounts the ZS6 tends towards a somewhat V shaped tuning? So definitely not reference.
> 
> 
> As for the deep cut, that's right around the sibilance zone, but at 4kHz you're already past most instrument fundamentals, I believe?
> ...


The graph makes good sense why ZS5 or 6 sounds smoothed out of details, or less resolving.  It's the cut in the 3.5-8k(that is a really big cut).  That area is important for detail retreival, and all the treble energy people are hearing are the very low treble region(the hump centered at 3k), and that is why tonal depth is off(due to the treble cut).


----------



## vector84 (Nov 9, 2017)

SilverEars said:


> and all the treble energy people are hearing are the very low treble region(the hump centered at 3k)


Respectfully, I would disagree with that - compensate against a Harman target @1kHz = 0dB and the 3kHz region is only elevated by around 0-3dB, while the 9kHz region (piercing) on the other hand is elevated by around 8-13dB.


And if it were a problem in the 3kHz region, rather than the 9kHz region, as shown in that graph you linked, people should be raving about Ostry tips, not foams.


----------



## charlescc2

Anybody else using the Bluetooth cable with any of the KZ models?  My ZSTs came in, which I have solely for the purpose of wireless, and using them with the Bluetooth cable they are way, way too quiet with my Samsung Galaxy S6 at max volume with any music app.  I can't even get an idea of whether the ZSTs are any good or not because of how quiet they are.


----------



## JayceOoi

FYI. KZ ZS3 @ $4.99 with this coupon - KZZS311
https://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


----------



## tvou88

JayceOoi said:


> FYI. KZ ZS3 @ $4.99 with this coupon - KZZS311
> https://www.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html


Expired


----------



## ivo001

-


----------



## Slater

charlescc2 said:


> Anybody else using the Bluetooth cable with any of the KZ models?  My ZSTs came in, which I have solely for the purpose of wireless, and using them with the Bluetooth cable they are way, way too quiet with my Samsung Galaxy S6 at max volume with any music app.  I can't even get an idea of whether the ZSTs are any good or not because of how quiet they are.



I use ZST with the bluetooth cable, and I can easily go loud enough to blow my eardrums.

You do know that the bluetooth module has a separate volume control, right? What I do is turn the volume on my phone all the way, and then use the bluetooth module to actually adjust the volume during use. To do so, *hold down* the up/forward or down/back button on the bluetooth module until you get the volume where you want it. It takes a few seconds before the volume starts changing.


----------



## EISENbricher

Received my ZS5 yesterday, love them. Changed tips right away to Sony Hybrid Tips. These help much in reducing the sibilance.
Also if required one may stuff small quantity of cotton into the tips. 

While I'm not floored with ZS5, they are definitely good. This is my first time trying an earbud having BA driver as well. Soundstage is okay, not exceptional. 

I'll give these more burn-in time.


----------



## skajohyros

EISENbricher said:


> Received my ZS5 yesterday, love them. Changed tips right away to Sony Hybrid Tips. These help much in reducing the sibilance.
> Also if required one may stuff small quantity of cotton into the tips.
> 
> While I'm not floored with ZS5, they are definitely good. This is my first time trying an earbud having BA driver as well. Soundstage is okay, not exceptional.
> ...



1 or 2 ba in the nozzle?


----------



## vegetaleb

EISENbricher said:


> Received my ZS5 yesterday, love them. Changed tips right away to Sony Hybrid Tips. These help much in reducing the sibilance.
> Also if required one may stuff small quantity of cotton into the tips.
> 
> While I'm not floored with ZS5, they are definitely good. This is my first time trying an earbud having BA driver as well. Soundstage is okay, not exceptional.
> ...



Can you compare them to the ZS3? 
At 26$ even with 11.11 it's relatively expensive f they are not that great.
Any other new KZ with memory wires since the ZS3?


----------



## ivo001

Is it worth it getting the upgrade cable for ZS5? Think it is about $6. Also the bluetooth upgrade cable is about $7, but i've read that the soud quality is crap with it.


----------



## BrunoC

EISENbricher said:


> Received my ZS5 yesterday, love them. Changed tips right away to Sony Hybrid Tips. These help much in reducing the sibilance.
> Also if required one may stuff small quantity of cotton into the tips.
> 
> While I'm not floored with ZS5, they are definitely good. This is my first time trying an earbud having BA driver as well. Soundstage is okay, not exceptional.
> ...



If you think the ZS5's soundstage is okay, I don't know what do you mean by a good soundstage!

The ZS5's soundstage IMO is the best I heard in chifi (20+) I already have. I mean, it's simply brilliant giving a tremendous sense of space and clarity. 
Also the ZS6's soundstage is norrower than the ZS5's.

With all the deals on gearbest frequently going on, you can catch the ZS5 for 15€. A steal.


----------



## Griffith

BrunoC said:


> If you think the ZS5's soundstage is okay, I don't know what do you mean by a good soundstage!
> 
> The ZS5's soundstage IMO is the best I heard in chifi (20+) I already have. I mean, it's simply brilliant giving a tremendous sense of space and clarity.
> Also the ZS6's soundstage is norrower than the ZS5's.
> ...



I'm sorry but the ZS5 doesn't have the best soundstage even within KZ's lineup. The ED9, the ATE and the ZS1 and beat it handily in that specific characteristic.


----------



## Superluc (Nov 9, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Respectfully, I would disagree with that - compensate against a Harman target @1kHz = 0dB and the 3kHz region is only elevated by around 0-3dB, while the 9kHz region (piercing) on the other hand is elevated by around 8-13dB.


Agree. There's no point to argue about the 2-4K region, it's fine as it is. The problem is in the higher peek, witch work very good on make the sound "alive", but that emphasize some sibilance sound on vocals. As sibilance's peek isn't always on a specific frequency, the drop between 4k and 7K work also good to masked some of them. So, it's understandable that some users don't need anything else than a pair foams, as i even use them with silicons, on tracks without vocals or on voices/recording that not trigger any sibilance.
The instruments more affected are cymbals, that sound more splashy than normal. Is something good when they are on the back, make them more present, but on the front is just too much.


----------



## CrazyDelta

Hi Guys,

Just started following this thread recently. I've been meaning to try a new pair or earphone and KZ caught my eye. I'm hoping to get a pair during the 11/11 sale.
I'm stuck between ZS5 and ZS6. I listen to a variety of music, with preference to rock and alternative as well as acoustic.

I'm leaning toward KS6 because of the metal body. Also would like to get a better cable and better eartips. Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## Superluc

There is already a lot of posts about cables, you just need to search on Aliexpress about "KZ upgrade cable" and buy what you like the most.

Talking about eartips, the nozzle is about 5.5 or more of diameter, so you need foams at least of T400 size. I also think that, using silicons, the ZS6 require something with a wider bore that the stock starline. If you have it, just buy some cheap foams, otherwise i think that buy the new bee pack of both silicons and foams set is a good start.


----------



## HiFiChris

ivo001 said:


> Is it worth it getting the upgrade cable for ZS5? Think it is about $6.



Absolutely. It is much more flexible, softer and kills cable noise (microphonics).


----------



## ivo001

HiFiChris said:


> Absolutely. It is much more flexible, softer and kills cable noise (microphonics).


Is this the correct one?
Link


----------



## Superluc

ivo001 said:


> Is this the correct one?
> Link


yes, it's the newer one.


----------



## HiFiChris

ivo001 said:


> Is this the correct one?
> Link



Yeah, that should be the correct cable.
I have this one (fourth option - blue, silver cable, no mic): https://de.aliexpress.com/item/2017...nito-Running-Sport-Earphones/32809849454.html

Here are a few photos of the ZS5 with the silver cable I have: http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2017/06/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs5-review.html

The one from your link is obviously darker in terms of colour and has got a black plug and y-splitter. Nonetheless it should be about identically flexible etc. There's only one thing to notice - quality control doesn't really seem to be a thing with those upgrade cables (that really are increadibly cheap in terms of pricing for how nicely made and flexible they are), and the sides and polarity might be inverted. Not an issue though since you can easily check this with a test tone video such as this one:  and switch sides and/or polarity of one side if needed.


----------



## ivo001

Picked up the grey zs5 on gearbest with coupon for just $12,99, now just need to buy a nice cable, and should be a very good combo for about $20 total.


----------



## oyobass

SilverEars said:


> The graph makes good sense why ZS5 or 6 sounds smoothed out of details, or less resolving.  It's the cut in the 3.5-8k(that is a really big cut).  That area is important for detail retreival, and all the treble energy people are hearing are the very low treble region(the hump centered at 3k), and that is why tonal depth is off(due to the treble cut).


Your chart explains why I like the Chi-foams best. They appear to pass more sound at 4k and 6.5k, where I have a bit of a dip in my hearing.

If this is from your testing, could you run another test with the foams put on the nozzles backwards (if you have the time)? 

This is the only way I can get a consistent seal using Large New Bee foams, since my ear holes are so large. It seems to me to change the sound signature a bit (more lively sounding), I'm guessing because the nozzle is closer to the ear, and the foam is covered by the rubber lining all the way to the back end. TIA!


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> I use ZST with the bluetooth cable, and I can easily go loud enough to blow my eardrums.
> 
> You do know that the bluetooth module has a separate volume control, right? What I do is turn the volume on my phone all the way, and then use the bluetooth module to actually adjust the volume during use. To do so, *hold down* the up/forward or down/back button on the bluetooth module until you get the volume where you want it. It takes a few seconds before the volume starts changing.



I agree 100%, plus cranking the phone/DAP volume usually gives you more time on the Bluetooth since you don't have to run it wide open KZ Cable upgrade, for me the best performance to date (remember this is just based on my old ears and YMMV) has been the silver ZST braided cable like I have on these two ZST's:




As you can see I have that new ZS6 platinum colored cable on my ZS6 in this picture however it's sounds veiled to my in comparison, same goes for the silver and gold ZS5 upgrade cables. Fortunately the ZST braided cable works with not only ZST's but ZS6 and ZS5 even though on the five the pin housing will not drop all the way into the slot it catches enough pin to hold and sound great.


----------



## TJK81

@Podster: You have both of versions of the ZST's. Is there any significant diference in the sound compared each other. I heard that the early version of the carbon one had some issue in the sound.


----------



## Podster

TJK81 said:


> @Podster: You have both of versions of the ZST's. Is there any significant diference in the sound compared each other. I heard that the early version of the carbon one had some issue in the sound.



Now remember we are talking my old ears here but the Carbons are my most worn pair as they IMO look more professional that the Candy colored one but that's just personal preference. I've heard and saw the arguments that the Colorful back when they came out were clearer than the Carbons but I have never heard a difference in the two. Now the original cable at least to me does not sound as sweet and full as the triple braided cable I use, with that said yes either pair could sound better than the other if one is on stock cable or even the Gold and Silver first upgrade cable KZ was offering. Not sure if that cable is any better than stock other than they do look better than that blue/grayish stock cable! I'm pretty sure @B9Scrambler could tell no difference in the first upgrade silver cable from the stock either iirc he preferred the stock cable. Not sure if I have answered or helped you at all with my answer but it's all I got


----------



## TJK81 (Nov 9, 2017)

To be honest, it is not the answer i was expecting.
I gave the colorful one to my wife as she is safisfied with 'em. I'm thinking about purchasing the carbon version on 11.11. I'm waiting for silver heavy braided KZ cable as a potentionaly decent pairing with them. The heavy braided upgrade cable sounds very good with my ZS5's.
Well... or i just wait for releasing the new ZSR... Really hard times for the chi-fi "maniacs"


----------



## charlescc2

Slater said:


> I use ZST with the bluetooth cable, and I can easily go loud enough to blow my eardrums.
> 
> You do know that the bluetooth module has a separate volume control, right? What I do is turn the volume on my phone all the way, and then use the bluetooth module to actually adjust the volume during use. To do so, *hold down* the up/forward or down/back button on the bluetooth module until you get the volume where you want it. It takes a few seconds before the volume starts changing.



I actually tried that but must not have been holding long enough as it wasn't working, but yeah that does it, thanks.  The volume seems to be equal to when I have them plugged up with a wired cable, so that works.


----------



## charlescc2

Podster said:


> As you can see I have that new ZS6 platinum colored cable on my ZS6 in this picture however it's sounds veiled to my in comparison, same goes for the silver and gold ZS5 upgrade cables. Fortunately the ZST braided cable works with not only ZST's but ZS6 and ZS5 even though on the five the pin housing will not drop all the way into the slot it catches enough pin to hold and sound great.



What is that DAP setup you have?  Is that an AMP clipped onto it (and which one)?  Really slick looking setup . I think I'm going to try to get a better portable solution for listening to music than using my Galaxy S6, which already has crap battery life at this point even when not putting it to work.  I'm also hoping to be able to get the most out of the ZS6s that I have coming in, and I'm pretty sure my phone isn't going to get enough juice to them.

Also, you mentioned the braided cable didn't fit properly on the ZS5, but is that also the case with the ZS6?  I feel like I read people saying that it didn't fit snugly onto the ZS6 either and that the plastic end needed to be snipped off to get a snug fit.  I have the cable now and I guess I'll find out any day with the ZS6s coming in, but if I have to cut something I'm afraid I'm going to screw up and ruin the IEMs


----------



## Podster

TJK81 said:


> To be honest, it is not the answer i was expecting.
> I gave the colorful one to my wife as she is safisfied with 'em. I'm thinking about purchasing the carbon version on 11.11. I'm waiting for silver heavy braided KZ cable as a potentionaly decent pairing with them. The heavy braided upgrade cable sounds very good with my ZS5's.
> Well... or i just wait for releasing the new ZSR... Really hard times for the chi-fi "maniacs"



Assuming you wanted an honest answer! Like I said to your main question, I've never heard any audible difference in the Carbon's and Colorful's, I also said I like the ZST braided cables on ZS5/6 as well even though they are not made for them or have full insertion like on the ZST's. I apologize if my answer did not meet your expectations 

@charlescc2 , that stack is the FiiO X3ii with FiiO stacking kit holding the Topping NX2 DAC/Amp (DAC is not too impressive but amp rocks and forever)  I think overall it is best to stay with specific cables on the KZ line really, I guess if you are good with tiny DYI projects the cutting down of the braided cable plug would work however my hands are like the Hulk's with tiny stuff


----------



## vector84 (Nov 9, 2017)

oyobass said:


> Your chart explains why I like the Chi-foams best. They appear to pass more sound at 4k and 6.5k, where I have a bit of a dip in my hearing.
> 
> If this is from your testing, could you run another test with the foams put on the nozzles backwards (if you have the time)?
> 
> This is the only way I can get a consistent seal using Large New Bee foams, since my ear holes are so large. It seems to me to change the sound signature a bit (more lively sounding), I'm guessing because the nozzle is closer to the ear, and the foam is covered by the rubber lining all the way to the back end. TIA!


That data comes from @hakuzen, the original is here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787

EDIT: oops, that's the first round of tip rolling, here's the one with Ostry tips too:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1527#post-13766425


----------



## vector84 (Nov 9, 2017)

charlescc2 said:


> Also, you mentioned the braided cable didn't fit properly on the ZS5, but is that also the case with the ZS6?


It doesn't fit snuggly because it's a different connector housing.

Didn't the B *A* type housing for ZS5/6 just come out a few days ago in that braided style?  Should be able to find them somewhere on aliexpress.


----------



## Podster

vector84 said:


> It doesn't fit snuggly because it's a different connector housing.
> 
> Didn't the B type housing for ZS5/6 just come out a few days ago in that braided style?  Should be able to find them somewhere on aliexpress.



Would be nice if they did make this triple braided ZST cable for those two models as well, I'll be watching for them. In the meantime I have the bronze SP cable for my ZS6's, a couple of these :







https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...5.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.273.fO4cLZ

in the gray and yellow for my ZS5V1's


----------



## vector84

Podster said:


> Would be nice if they did make this triple braided ZST cable for those two models as well, I'll be watching for them. In the meantime I have the bronze SP cable for my ZS6's, a couple of these :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I could have sworn I saw a post linking a source for the new braided A-type cables on aliexpress, but I can't seem to find it right now.

Here's the original info post from @Superluc quoting hillsonicaudio:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1628#post-13818602


----------



## Podster

vector84 said:


> I could have sworn I saw a post linking a source for the new braided A-type cables on aliexpress, but I can't seem to find it right now.
> 
> Here's the original info post from @Superluc quoting hillsonicaudio:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1628#post-13818602



I can attest the triple braid is the best sounding cable I've found for the KZ even with a shallow insertion on the ZS5/6 they still sound better than the other upgrade cables I've tried on them but like you I've not found the triple braids advertised specifically for ZS5/6 on AliEx or they would be in my 11/11 basket. I looked at Hill and have no clue how much RM39.00 is! Can't seem to sign up with them and it also looked like the only have two of the A-Type left


----------



## vector84

Podster said:


> I can attest the triple braid is the best sounding cable I've found for the KZ even with a shallow insertion on the ZS5/6 they still sound better than the other upgrade cables I've tried on them but like you I've not found the triple braids advertised specifically for ZS5/6 on AliEx or they would be in my 11/11 basket. I looked at Hill and have no clue how much RM39.00 is! Can't seem to sign up with them and it also looked like the only have two of the A-Type left


I think that's Malaysian Ringgits, so it should be around $9.30 USD?

But I think you'd need to contact them directly about an international order.  If memory serves, they posted on their Twitter that they would be happy to do international orders, but as they typically do not do so, there would be additional shipping fees.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Does anyone else have movement (loose) with their input port on their ZS6?


----------



## bsoplinger (Nov 9, 2017)

Here's the AliExpress link for the version of the braided cable that I purchased in case anyone can't find it. This is from a previous post, perhaps @Slater although I really don't remember who posted it. I personally don't hear anything different but its just a much nicer cable all around vs the stock or white / silver replacement cable. Like the silver replacement there's no microphone.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32821872852.html

Edit: I should add that to use this on the ZS6 or ZS5 it looks nicer and you get deeper insertion of the pins if you cut back the clear plastic guide which is too big to fit into the plug area. Just note the rounded vs square end in the material before you cut it off so you can keep the polarity correct.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Dark Helmet said:


> Does anyone else have movement (loose) with their input port on their ZS6?


Yes,  I do unfortunately.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 9, 2017)

Dark Helmet said:


> Does anyone else have movement (loose) with their input port on their ZS6?


Stock cable where it fits into the ZS6?

If so, some useful posts from @Slater and @AudioObsession :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1655#post-13834750
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1627#post-13818205

TLDR: KZ stock cables are now 0.72mm pins, KZ upgrade cables are 0.75mm pins, so to fix the issue you can either tin the pins of your cable or get an upgrade cable.  I suppose you could also just glue it in place if you don't need to remove cables frequently.

Make sure you've seated the cable completely before going too far though - they can take some heavy force to insert the first time, but stock cables should seat down to where the plastic molding has a stop ledge.


----------



## Dark Helmet

vector84 said:


> Stock cable where it fits into the ZS6?
> 
> If so, some useful posts from @Slater and @AudioObsession :
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1655#post-13834750
> ...


It's actually the plastic housing that the pins are in that moves.


----------



## charlescc2

Podster said:


> I can attest the triple braid is the best sounding cable I've found for the KZ even with a shallow insertion on the ZS5/6 they still sound better than the other upgrade cables I've tried on them but like you I've not found the triple braids advertised specifically for ZS5/6 on AliEx or they would be in my 11/11 basket. I looked at Hill and have no clue how much RM39.00 is! Can't seem to sign up with them and it also looked like the only have two of the A-Type left


Despite the triple braid not fitting the ZS6 perfectly, do you find it to be connected adequately enough to not be bothered by it?


----------



## Dark Helmet (Nov 9, 2017)

Lord Rexter said:


> Yes,  I do unfortunately.


I actuall took and put some blu tac in there to steady it and it worked well. I initially put some super glue in there as well.


----------



## Dark Helmet

charlescc2 said:


> Despite the triple braid not fitting the ZS6 perfectly, do you find it to be connected adequately enough to not be bothered by it?


Yes. Listening to them as I type. They fit snug.


----------



## vector84

Dark Helmet said:


> It's actually the plastic housing that the pins are in that moves.


Oh, the female side?  That sounds like a QC issue, but it should be pretty easy to open them up and steady it.


Dark Helmet said:


> I actuall took and put some blu tac and put some in there to steady it and it worked well. I initially put some super glue in there as well.


Seems like you already figured that out.


----------



## oyobass

vector84 said:


> That data comes from @hakuzen, the original is here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787
> 
> EDIT: oops, that's the first round of tip rolling, here's the one with Ostry tips too:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1527#post-13766425


Thank you for the links.

Data is nice for understanding why I like something. I guess the important thing is that I like it, at least until I try to duplicate what I like. Then data becomes essential again.


----------



## Podster

charlescc2 said:


> Despite the triple braid not fitting the ZS6 perfectly, do you find it to be connected adequately enough to not be bothered by it?



What Dark Helmet said, they do hold on very well even for shallow insertion. I'm just going to bide my time as I think with the popularity of the ZS5/6's these triple braids will eventually make it into the hands of the AliEx sellers.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Podster said:


> What Dark Helmet said, they do hold on very well even for shallow insertion. I'm just going to bide my time as I think with the popularity of the ZS5/6's these triple braids will eventually make it into the hands of the AliEx sellers.


I think they are already on Ali. I got mine from Amazon for $13.99. I think on Ali I saw them for $8 or $9.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Dark Helmet said:


> I actuall took and put some blu tac and put some in there to steady it and it worked well. I initially put some super glue in there as well.


Nice tip, will try that out and fix my loose cable inserts.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Lord Rexter said:


> Nice tip, will try that out and fix my loose cable inserts.


A little blu tac goes a long way.


----------



## Podster

Dark Helmet said:


> I think they are already on Ali. I got mine from Amazon for $13.99. I think on Ali I saw them for $8 or $9.



Specifically the Type A for ZS5/6? Need that link


----------



## wastan

vegetaleb said:


> Can you compare them to the ZS3?
> At 26$ even with 11.11 it's relatively expensive f they are not that great.
> Any other new KZ with memory wires since the ZS3?



Have the zs3, zs5 and zs6. The only way the zs3 clearly out performs the other two is in comfort. The zs3 are fun and I still use them occasionally but there's no question the others are worth the additional cost and then some.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Podster said:


> Specifically the Type A for ZS5/6? Need that link


Not specifically, but they do say it will work on the ZS6, and that's what I'm using.


----------



## oyobass

I'm glad I got my green ZS6 before they went out of stock at Gearbest. They go well with my bright green bass:




 

 

At first I thought they were boring sounding compared to the ZS5 and ZST. After a few days of hardware and brain burn-in, they sound flippin' gorgeous!

The honeymoon period isn't over yet, but I may have found a new daily driver to replace the ZSTs. They sound better, don't rub on my ears like the ZS5 and ZST, and seem do be driven well by my phones.
I'll still use the ZSTs for stage monitoring due to their much better isolation, (unless the drummer miraculously starts playing quieter), but for nearly everything else, it'll be the ZS6.


----------



## Wiljen

robervaul said:


> This is probably the design of the ZSR PRO.



Just ran across this post again.  Robervaul should really have bought a lotto ticket that day as he sure called it on the Zs6


----------



## Slater (Nov 9, 2017)

Podster said:


> As you can see I have that new ZS6 platinum colored cable on my ZS6 in this picture however it's sounds veiled to my in comparison, same goes for the silver and gold ZS5 upgrade cables. Fortunately the ZST braided cable works with not only ZST's but ZS6 and ZS5 even though on the five the pin housing will not drop all the way into the slot it catches enough pin to hold and sound great.



Wait, you lost me on which cable sounds the best to you?

The "original" SPC cable? Ie the 1st one KZ released (that is not attached to any IEM and sitting coiled up in the mesh pouch in your photo above)?

This one:



Or this one:


----------



## Happy Hacking

Hi all, I've received my ZS6 and am kind of disappointed by the piercing 'tschh' in the highs. I've read that these could be solved by foam tips? I already have a black OFC kz cable and a kz foam tip on the way to me, but meanwhile is there anything i can do to fix the issue without tearing the thing apart? It is really hurting my ears!


----------



## vector84 (Nov 9, 2017)

Happy Hacking said:


> Hi all, I've received my ZS6 and am kind of disappointed by the piercing 'tschh' in the highs. I've read that these could be solved by foam tips? I already have a black OFC kz cable and a kz foam tip on the way to me, but meanwhile is there anything i can do to fix the issue without tearing the thing apart? It is really hurting my ears!


KZ foams without the rubber core don't seem to attenuate the highs in the same way as the Comply/chifoam tips.

Besides destructive modifications (or semi-destructive ones that involve removing the screen) you could also try just damping the nozzle somehow - stretch some foam, batting, fabric, paper towel, coffee filter, etc over the nozzle and fit the tip over it.  You could also pack the tip with something, but options might be somewhat limited as you wouldn't want it to fall out in your ear, so I tend to think seating a damper held in place by the tip is a much safer option - even if the tip comes off in your ear, the damper isn't likely to end up in your ear canal.

Also high output impedance sources (or a series resistance adapter) reduce the treble spike, or EQ around 7-10kHz ?


----------



## Podster

The triple braided one


----------



## Happy Hacking

vector84 said:


> KZ foams without the rubber core don't seem to attenuate the highs in the same way as the Comply/chifoam tips.
> 
> Besides destructive modifications (or semi-destructive ones that involve removing the screen) you could also try just damping the nozzle somehow - stretch some foam, batting, fabric, paper towel, coffee filter, etc over the nozzle and fit the tip over it.  You could also pack the tip with something, but options might be somewhat limited as you wouldn't want it to fall out in your ear, so I tend to think seating a damper held in place by the tip is a much safer option - even if the tip comes off in your ear, the damper isn't likely to end up in your ear canal.
> 
> Also high output impedance sources (or a series resistance adapter) reduce the treble spike, or EQ around 7-10kHz ?



Thanks for the advice. Which tips from aliexpress would you recommend i buy? There are so many to choose from. I unfortunately ordered the kz tips. 

I will try putting some foam between the tips and mesh and get back in the next few days. Unfortunately, my only source is my Oneplus3T phone, and i dislike carrying extra dac/player/amps whilst commuting.

It's just a wonder to me how popular and well received these earphones are when they are almost completely unlistenable to me. Anyhow thank you for the advice!


----------



## oyobass

Happy Hacking said:


> Hi all, I've received my ZS6 and am kind of disappointed by the piercing 'tschh' in the highs. I've read that these could be solved by foam tips? I already have a black OFC kz cable and a kz foam tip on the way to me, but meanwhile is there anything i can do to fix the issue without tearing the thing apart? It is really hurting my ears!


Mine seemed to respond to some burn-in and New Bee foam tips very well. Mine have gone from boring and whimpy sounding to truly amazing. Maybe I have just gotten used to the sound signature, but nothing else I have sounds as good.


----------



## Happy Hacking (Nov 9, 2017)

oyobass said:


> Mine seemed to respond to some burn-in and New Bee foam tips very well. Mine have gone from boring and whimpy sounding to truly amazing. Maybe I have just gotten used to the sound signature, but nothing else I have sounds as good.


I do not believe in burn-in, but i guess i will give it a go for the first time. Desperation calls. What should I be playing and at what volume to burn them in to?

I'll see to order some newbee foam tips aswell. Problem is most sellers sell them in sets of multiple sizes without the option of choosing specific sizes/colors only.


----------



## maxxevv

Happy Hacking said:


> I do not believe in burn-in, but i guess i will give it a go for the first time. Desperation calls. What should I be playing and at what volume to burn them in to?
> 
> I'll see to order some newbee foam tips aswell. Problem is most sellers sell them in sets of multiple sizes without the option of choosing specific sizes/colors only.



Download some  "Pink Noise".  And play them back at about your listening volume on infinite loop for an overnight session. Works well for almost all my IEMs to date. 

Just look for T400 / T500 foam tips. Most of the vendors will allow you to specific colour and size.  

I have bought multiple times from the same vendor:
You can specify size and colour with these 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...897.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.678ce1eeQPGBIh


There's only the option of colour for these :

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...008.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.678ce1eeQPGBIh


----------



## vector84 (Nov 9, 2017)

Happy Hacking said:


> Thanks for the advice. Which tips from aliexpress would you recommend i buy? There are so many to choose from. I unfortunately ordered the kz tips.


This seller has been posted many times here as one of the cheapest sources of chifoam tips - they recently changed up their listings some and some of my saved links died, but they still have them at 40pc @$0.25 each, 30pc @ $0.29 each (look under the headphone accessories major category, the sorting beneath that is just weird) etc and you can customize your order for various nozzle sizes / tip sizes / colors by messaging them.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1853692

$0.25 / 2pc for T500 larges too (plus $0.79 shipping  )



> I will try putting some foam between the tips and mesh and get back in the next few days. Unfortunately, my only source is my Oneplus3T phone, and i dislike carrying extra dac/player/amps whilst commuting.
> 
> It's just a wonder to me how popular and well received these earphones are when they are almost completely unlistenable to me. Anyhow thank you for the advice!





Happy Hacking said:


> I do not believe in burn-in, but i guess i will give it a go for the first time. Desperation calls. What should I be playing and at what volume to burn them in to?


The way I look at it, even if they don't benefit from burn-in, the process of doing so helps accelerate brain burn-in via some subconscious trickery.  So you should definitely give it a chance, believer or not (and I'm a non-believer, as it were ).

Also if something dies in the first couple days of continuous play, you can get around to replacing/refunding it that much sooner... this is the reason I like to tell myself that I burn stuff in for. 


As for what to use to burn in - white noise isn't recommended for elevated volume burn-in as it can push too much energy in the highs (though reportedly the ZS6 BAs can probably handle it, if you really want to go that route).  Pink noise or music at normal volumes would probably be a more reasonable suggestion imo.


----------



## oyobass

Happy Hacking said:


> I do not believe in burn-in, but i guess i will give it a go for the first time. Desperation calls. What should I be playing and at what volume to burn them in to?


I have an Android phone app called Relax and Sleep with brown noise, Summer rain, etc. I ran that overnight at high volume, ran EDM through it, and loud classical piano at different times, mainly overnight. Brain burn-in could be a factor, too, in that I'm just used to the sound now.


----------



## tworule

Happy Hacking said:


> I do not believe in burn-in, but i guess i will give it a go for the first time. Desperation calls. What should I be playing and at what volume to burn them in to?
> 
> I'll see to order some newbee foam tips aswell. Problem is most sellers sell them in sets of multiple sizes without the option of choosing specific sizes/colors only.


These are all m size I believe . Check this :
http://s.aliexpress.com/IFvYN7V3


----------



## oyobass

Happy Hacking said:


> I do not believe in burn-in, but i guess i will give it a go for the first time. Desperation calls. What should I be playing and at what volume to burn them in to?
> 
> I'll see to order some newbee foam tips aswell. Problem is most sellers sell them in sets of multiple sizes without the option of choosing specific sizes/colors only.


I got my New Bees on Amazon. I ordered the multi-size pack to see what fit. They also had single size packs. I will be ordering large eartips from now on...


----------



## JayceOoi

Don't miss it this round...

KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - KZHM
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## Trisse

After reading the suggestion of high independence source i change the settings of of Asus Sonar STX to 250-300 ohm setting.  Could my ZS6 be damaged if i use this setting?

My i intial impression is that the sound got a little better but it most likely placebo. at least the sound did not get worse. I would be nice to just leave it at this setting then I don´t need to change anything when switching to my other headphones.


----------



## CoiL

Griffith said:


> I'm sorry but the ZS5 doesn't have the best soundstage even within KZ's lineup. The ED9, the ATE and the ZS1 and beat it handily in that specific characteristic.



That depends quite a lot on setup, tips, hearing, music etc. 

ED9 has narrower soundtage for sure and has elevated highs that make soundstage "seem larger/airier" but it isn`t.
ATE has little more soundstage depth and presentation/imaging distance but sense of larger space comes mostly from more lasting decays and reverbs, though being less detailed than ZS5.
ZS1 - I don`t have to comment.

Overall I would say that ZS5v1 has very good large soundstage and is among one of the best @ KZ family. Though, it doesn`t quite reach my desk setup: HW modified Aune T1 Siemens E88CC goldpin tube + Fidelio X1 (custom cable). 

Among KZ family, one of the best to my ears (maybe the best) soundstage is ANV 2nd gen but unfortunately its bass lacks little for my taste.


----------



## AudioObsession

Dark Helmet said:


> It's actually the plastic housing that the pins are in that moves.


This is true.. I opened my ZS6 up tonight and put a very small amount of hot glue on the underside of the little red piece with the female pin holes, then quickly pressed it in place before it hardened.. Problem solved.


----------



## ivo001

Is this the new cable on Aliexpress?
I'm only judging by the nice metal connectors that look the same as the ones on that triple braided cable indian website.
Only downside is that they only come in balanced version, which I think I cannot run from my phone/laptop right?


----------



## Abe Fallorina

Happy Hacking said:


> Hi all, I've received my ZS6 and am kind of disappointed by the piercing 'tschh' in the highs. I've read that these could be solved by foam tips? I already have a black OFC kz cable and a kz foam tip on the way to me, but meanwhile is there anything i can do to fix the issue without tearing the thing apart? It is really hurting my ears!



you could put some small cotton in both or just one armature.


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> Is this the new cable on Aliexpress?
> I'm only judging by the nice metal connectors that look the same as the ones on that triple braided cable indian website.
> Only downside is that they only come in balanced version, which I think I cannot run from my phone/laptop right?



That's the KZ braided cable, but that price is double what you can find it for elsewhere.

That 'balanced' reference is just listed in the description. I doubt the seller re-terminated the end to make it balanced, because it still has the stock 3.5mm end. The stock KZ cable isn't balanced, so I would just ignore that.

The seller also quotes the pins as 0.78mm, which isn't correct either. It's 0.75mm.

Basically the cable is great, but that listing is overpriced and has numerous errors lol


----------



## vegetaleb

So anyone found a ZS5 under 20$ on aliexpress,bangood or Gearbest?


----------



## nxnje

Just wanted to advise people who don't know about this : the new zs5 is crap compared to the old one. I mean the zs5 u find now on the stores is the zs5 v2 while before august sellers were selling zs5v1.
Better buying a zs6 as zs5 v2 sounds worse than the old zs5.


----------



## mbwilson111

wastan said:


> Have the zs3, zs5 and zs6. The only way the zs3 clearly out performs the other two is in comfort.



Interesting...I find the ZS6 so much more comfortable than the ZS3 that I gave the ZS3 to my husband in exchange for something of his that I wanted.

The shell hurt one of my ears and the cable is at a weird angle making it difficult for me to wear it comfortably over ear.  I like what I got in exchange.


----------



## mbwilson111

vector84 said:


> Also if something dies in the first couple days of continuous play, you can get around to replacing/refunding it that much sooner... this is the reason I like to tell myself that I burn stuff in for.



That is actually an excellent reason to burn in.  Often if something is going to fail it would do so during that time frame.  I try to give mine a few days of continuous play...just my normal listening volume with occasional rest periods.  Sometimes I put the volume up a bit because my normal listening levels are lower than those of most people.


----------



## wastan

mbwilson111 said:


> Interesting...I find the ZS6 so much more comfortable than the ZS3 that I gave the ZS3 to my husband in exchange for something of his that I wanted.
> 
> The shell hurt one of my ears and the cable is at a weird angle making it difficult for me to wear it comfortably over ear.  I like what I got in exchange.


On the zs3 you have to seat it just one way otherwise you get the fit you experienced. Twist it around a bit until it's in place and it's incredibly comfortable


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> So anyone found a ZS5 under 20$ on aliexpress,bangood or Gearbest?



Gearbest has been selling ZS5 for $12.99 shipped multiple times in the last week now. Most recent sale was today. You're not going to find a better price anywhere else.


----------



## Slater (Nov 10, 2017)

nxnje said:


> Just wanted to advise people who don't know about this : the new zs5 is crap compared to the old one. I mean the zs5 u find now on the stores is the zs5 v2 while before august sellers were selling zs5v1.
> Better buying a zs6 as zs5 v2 sounds worse than the old zs5.



You do realize that the ZS5 v2 is almost identical in sound to the ZS6? I own more than 1 of all 3 - ZS5 v1, ZS5 v2, and ZS6.

If you're saying the "ZS5 v2 sounds like crap", then how are you "better off buying a ZS6"?

BTW, did you try Comply style foam tips and a source other than a cell phone? They sound infinitely better with at least foam tips.

You can also install a small piece of foam inside of the nozzle or even stuff a piece of foam inside of the eartip.

Some users have disabled 1 of the BA drivers in the nozzle by filling 1 of the BA nozzles with glue, BlueTac, or wax, or even tearing out 1 of the BA drivers altogether.

The last thing is to make sure they aren't plugged in out of phase, which will make any IEM sound like crap. You can test the phase here:

Use the "wiring test" here: http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

Or this test here:


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> Gearbest has been selling ZS5 for $12.99 shipped multiple times in the last week now. Most recent sale was today. You're not going to find a better price anywhere else.



Do they change the offers depending on the buyer's country? I checked all day long and the best  I can find is 23$ including mic and delivery on Gearbest.
Anyway I love my ZS3 on S8 Exynos but I found them slightly too dirty with the trebles, I used the filter mod to reduce bass but the treble is a bit too high, the ZS5 v2 are better for that? What about soundstage?


----------



## rendyG

zs5 for $12.99 seems like a good deal, worth getting it when i have es3?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 10, 2017)

wastan said:


> On the zs3 you have to seat it just one way otherwise you get the fit you experienced. Twist it around a bit until it's in place and it's incredibly comfortable



I know.  I kept trying.  After having it for a few months I just was happy to trade it.  I knew my husband wanted it anyway and I like what I got in return.

Meanwhile, I have been listening with the ZS6 for about 4 hours straight now. No problems .I have had them for a couple of weeks now.  Love the sound. BTW I have them plugged into my Cayin N3 dap.

Editing to add..Seems they isolate a bit too well...I see that I missed two phone calls on the home phone.


----------



## Slater (Nov 10, 2017)

vegetaleb said:


> Do they change the offers depending on the buyer's country? I checked all day long and the best  I can find is 23$ including mic and delivery on Gearbest.
> Anyway I love my ZS3 on S8 Exynos but I found them slightly too dirty with the trebles, I used the filter mod to reduce bass but the treble is a bit too high, the ZS5 v2 are better for that? What about soundstage?



Sometimes it's country specific, and others times it's valid everywhere.

I've even seen users request codes for specific countries, and George makes a code for them. If that's not customer service, I don't know what is.

What country are you located?

Also, if the ZS*3* has too much treble for you, you *definitely* don't want the ZS5 v2 or ZS6! You must be awfully treble sensitive. You can use foam tips to reduce the treble a bit, or find another IEM with less treble than the ZS3. Try the KZ EDR1, EDR2, or EDSE, as they sound similar to the ZS3 but with a bit less treble. They are all built well, and cheap to boot ($5). I'd also steer clear of any hybrid KZ offerings - ES3, ZST, ZS5, ZS6 etc as those are all brighter than the ZS3.

You may also want to check Vidal's site for help (http://www.aproear.co.uk/review-list/), or maybe he'll chime in with a recommendation.


----------



## vegetaleb (Nov 10, 2017)

Slater said:


> Sometimes it's country specific, and others times it's everywhere.
> 
> I've even seen users request codes for specific countries, and George makes a code for them. If that's not customer service, I don't know what is.
> 
> What country are you located?



In Lebanon
Do you think it will have an 11.11 offer?


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> In Lebanon
> Do you think it will have an 11.11 offer?



No clue friend.

But this is the place to ask for Gearbest code to Lebanon (it's helpful if you provide the 2-digit country code): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-...c-8-xiaomi-wireless-4-1-earbuds-15-11.832367/


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> No clue friend.
> 
> But this is the place to ask for Gearbest code to Lebanon (it's helpful if you provide the 2-digit country code): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-...c-8-xiaomi-wireless-4-1-earbuds-15-11.832367/



Thanks
I tried the coupon code but it doesn't work with the Mic version, let's wait and see what George will say


----------



## TheVortex

The KZHM code seems to have expired, I used the link that George provided on the other thread.


----------



## maxxevv (Nov 10, 2017)

Slater said:


> You do realize that the ZS5 v2 is almost identical in sound to the ZS6? I own more than 1 of all 3 - ZS5 v1, ZS5 v2, and ZS6.



I have the ZS5v2 and the ZS6 and I have auditioned the ZS5v1 as well. 

After talking to a few people who have actually tried the ZS5v1 and then from my own comparisons, its usually the case of people who are coming from bass boosted earphones who make such conclusions.

They love the bass of the ZS5v1 and that the earphones if not sufficiently burned-in tend to have some bass bloat that muffles some of the treble and mid peaks.  It gives that sort of " bassy but loads of details with wide soundstage"  impression if you come from earphones with predominantly bass boosted signature. 
I came from earphones with a more balanced signature, where details and soundstage are more important than bass. ( as long as there was sufficient not to unbalance a sound, its alright). My first impression of a somewhat fresh ( less than 2 days of on-off listening without any burn-in) ZS5v1 was that the bass was somewhat bloated. And that details sound kind of muffled.  That was my impression. 
I have not revisited an audition of the ZS5v1 since, so can't conclude how the sound has evolved with usage.

Fast forward to the ZS5v2 ,  which I bought a few months later,  I let it burn-in a full 24 hours and it was a different preposition.  Bass was tight, with good mids and treble that don't sound muffled by the bass and in some tracks can sound 'peaky'. But foam tips make a big difference overall. Detail retrieval was surprisingly good with good source files and a decent DAC output.

Its definitely not for some forms of music such as some branches of electronic music as the treble can be too bright for such.  But they are very good for general pop music and most forms of Classical music.

I just got the ZS6 less than 2 days ago. And it does share most of the signature of the ZS5v2. There seem to be some subtle difference in the way sound details resonate and soundstage perception.  And they are subtle, only discernible when in a fairly quiet environment or when you're listening to the music loud. There's some extra tingle to delicate details for such things as "extreme corner " string pings and stuff of the sort. Also, there seems to be a better perception of width in the music.  I can't quite say that's exactly the difference yet as I haven't done a direct back-to-back A/B between the ZS5v2 and the ZS6 yet.  But that seems to be the minute differences I get. Will need to give them some further burn-in to see if things completely settle down after that.  But if you're listening to them while on the move, or in a fairly noisy environment, the differences can't really be heard without blasting the volume.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 10, 2017)

I've been active in the Over Ear chi-fi thread, so naturally when my hoard of IEMs that I got 12-18 months ago all started dying I began looking for replacements...I wanted to get IEMs to kind of match my over ear headphones because, I have the same musical tastes on the go, naturally I need IEMs to meet those needs.
so I got a:
ZS5  ($12.99) for the soundstage and treble. This will be my 'audiophile' iem...it's for the music I love to sit back and listen to at home with my Philips 9500s. It's my portable that I run through my Fiio A3....it's for The Black Keys, Mike Doughty, Spoon....but
...I don't think I could listen to it with all my music/all the time though, because I can only take bright 'phones for so long....
So I got an ES3 ($10.99)... from my reading it has most of the soundstage/clarity of the ZS5, but with more bass? Seems like a 'fun' sound, should work with a lot of my music...these will be for when I am more active and not focused on the music and am listening for longer periods. I have been using my Fidelio L2s for this but, they are kind of too good for that job, they deserve to be amped and paid attention to properly.......
but, I also love hip hop and it's probably 25% - 30% of my music listening... I need more bass, clearly....I have the Akai Fiddy-X for this...but I live in a beach town and I'm outside all the time and 50X are kinda big and sweaty...
So I got a ZS3($7.99) ...I will probably do some version of a Slater-mod on these because I do like a higher level of detail, even when listening to Petey Pablo, Mystikal or E-40...but man I love BASS when I am listening to hip hop and I think the ZS3 will fit the bill....
I also got a selection of foam tips to try ...( I meant to get a bluetooth cable but because I was ordering at 5 am to take advantage of a coupon! I failed to check the box for that cable)
how do y'all think I did?


----------



## AudioObsession

KZ ZS6 Custom-built Hybrid HiFi In-ear Earphones (RED and BLACK)

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770867.html?lkid=10690141

Flash Sale Price $28.99

Discount : 36% OFF


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

AudioObsession said:


> KZ ZS6 Custom-built Hybrid HiFi In-ear Earphones (RED and BLACK)
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770867.html?lkid=10690141
> 
> ...


Seems like a decent price....I would like to encourage people to figure out where they are in space and time in relation to Bejing...because these codes are time sensitive based on china...so if you are in...lets say North America? you need to decode when this is actually an active code...I used a ZS5 code, it worked, but it was 'live' at my time 1 am...
It can be frustrating if you aren't aware that it might be happening ...well, "in the past". I mean, I saw a code posted I tried it and it was expired....and did the time-math equation and it turned out I needed a time machine to get the code to work...according to the post it was shortly in the future, but it had already happened in the past in my universe....


----------



## c4rb0n

I recently bought my second pair of ZS6s and comparing them to my first pair of ZS6 with almost 2 weeks of usage which i decided to remove the foams from the mod i have posted, i can hear a huge difference in their treble spike, my new pairs highs sounds really harsh and bright, i think the "burn in" really does make a difference on the ZS6, as of now im using Taralabs Cascade Noise Burn in track on my new pair  or else i have to do the foam mod again


----------



## HungryPanda

We have smart phones that have clocks that can add any city so no problem


----------



## AudioObsession (Nov 11, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Seems like a decent price....I would like to encourage people to figure out where they are in space and time in relation to Bejing...because these codes are time sensitive based on china...so if you are in...lets say North America? you need to decode when this is actually an active code...I used a ZS5 code, it worked, but it was 'live' at my time 1 am...
> It can be frustrating if you aren't aware that it might be happening ...well, "in the past". I mean, I saw a code posted I tried it and it was expired....and did the time-math equation and it turned out I needed a time machine to get the code to work...according to the post it was shortly in the future, but it had already happened in the past in my universe....


That sale on the ZS6 doesn't seem to need any codes.. That's just the price that they are listed on sale on GearBest's site.. Better grab them quick, not sure how long they'll last at that cheap.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

AudioObsession said:


> That sale on the ZS6 doesn't seem to need any codes.. That's just the price that they are listed on sale on GearBest's site.. Better grab them quick, not sure how long they'll last at that cheap.


cool. I have been having a heck of a time trying to just get the $12.99 ZS5...most of these deals you have to jump through silly hoops and it's a frustrating process.


----------



## JayceOoi

FYI... KZ ZS6 @ $24.99 with the code: KZZS611 (start from 2017/11/11 20:00pm UTC+8)
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## nkramer

joining the club.... just picked up the KZ ZST from amazon for $14 & change....
figured, worst case, i'd have a cable & sockets i could cannibalize. definitely not my preferred sound signature, but definitely impressive for the price. highs are really high & lows are really low but seems lacking in the middle.... could be from the emphasis on either end of the spectrum though.....


----------



## vegetaleb (Nov 11, 2017)

This 11.11 is bs for now, I couldn't find a ZS5 Mic under 21$ on any website (AE, Gearbest, Bangood...)
This is the 1st time I won't buy at a 11.11
OMG the ZS3 with Mic that I bought 10.5$ last year is at 14.5$ today in the same shop!
Dunno who is pricing KZ earphones this year (KZ or sellers) but it's plain stupid


----------



## nkramer

i checked fasttech as well, they carry a handful of KZ but not the one your looking for


----------



## vegetaleb

nkramer said:


> i checked fasttech as well, they carry a handful of KZ but not the one your looking for



I think I am gonna get a QKZ W1 Pro, it was on my list last year and they are dirty cheap now under 6$
Do they all come with memory wire? because in some shops the cable is black and in others it's black and white, unless there are fake ones


----------



## c4rb0n

I thought i have ended one my ZS6's  i accidentaly removed the Nozzle from one of the BA's, i tried them out and sounded unequal, removed the other BA's nozzle and thankfully balanced out, i just noticed it lowered the volume output  that was a really close one  the clarity is still there thankfully


----------



## nkramer

don't know anything about them. 
unless you don't mind waiting for the shipping form china, amazon has the W1 Pro (AGPtEK W1 Pro) and it's fulfilled by amazon. it's a little more $ but being that cheap & only one item, i'd try to get it from some place closer. (if i was going to place an order with one of the china sites, i'd get a couple items to make it worth it)


----------



## HungryPanda

Oh my I did not intend to ruffle any feathers but rudeness does not impress me at all


----------



## CoiL (Nov 11, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> They love the bass of the ZS5v1 and that the earphones if not sufficiently burned-in tend to have some bass bloat that muffles some of the treble and mid peaks.  It gives that sort of " bassy but loads of details with wide soundstage"  impression if you come from earphones with predominantly bass boosted signature.
> I came from earphones with a more balanced signature, where details and soundstage are more important than bass. ( as long as there was sufficient not to unbalance a sound, its alright). My first impression of a somewhat fresh ( less than 2 days of on-off listening without any burn-in) ZS5v1 was that the bass was somewhat bloated. And that details sound kind of muffled.  That was my impression.
> I have not revisited an audition of the ZS5v1 since, so can't conclude how the sound has evolved with usage.


I don`t come from bass-boosted IEMs but I do like slight L-shaped signature sometimes.
There has been lot of talk about v1 impedance and source gear matching - it requires low output impedance and little amping to sound great.
I do agree that v1 bass could be slightly tighter/punchier but it doesn`t bleed into other FR nor muffle any sounds to my ears.
v1 highs are quite perfect to my ears (I`m treble sensitive around 6.2-7.5kHz) and doesn`t sound muffled or too "refined", sometimes they even border at being harsh (but only with compressed bad masters).
v1 also need proper tip - wide bore, no foams, deep fit to sound best imho.

Reading about ppl impressions ZS6 being sibilant, needing foams and looking at measurements is certainly no-go for me.
But this is just me with my gear and ears... just wish to leave different input.

Edit:

Btw, I got only ZS3 + ZST silver upgrade cable + 2x Fonge T01(for modding) @ 11.11 flash sales, wont be getting more. Just wanted to try out ZS3 fit.


----------



## vegetaleb

ZS3 are comfy the first 20-30mn but then the hard plastic begin to be irritating, for a single dynamic iem they should have made a slightly smaller shell


----------



## joe

I've cleaned up some posts guys. Let's move on.


----------



## vegetaleb

So the QKZ W1 Pro + holes mod has a better soundstage and mids than ZS3?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 11, 2017)

joe said:


> I've cleaned up some posts guys. Let's move on.


 you took out the funny parts, so it looks like Panda is muttering to himself like Eeyore...I'm cool with that.....

so, is the ZS3 not a comfortable fit? I got one thinking it would work for me when I am putting on iems and then forgetting they are there while doing errands, but then I read a comment or two about the plastic hurts some peoples ears...are there 'comfort' mods on these that people* have worked out?

* by people I think we all know I am talking about @Slater


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Seems like a decent price....I would like to encourage people to figure out where they are in space and time in relation to Bejing...because these codes are time sensitive based on china...so if you are in...lets say North America? you need to decode when this is actually an active code...I used a ZS5 code, it worked, but it was 'live' at my time 1 am...
> It can be frustrating if you aren't aware that it might be happening ...well, "in the past". I mean, I saw a code posted I tried it and it was expired....and did the time-math equation and it turned out I needed a time machine to get the code to work...according to the post it was shortly in the future, but it had already happened in the past in my universe....



Don't fret buddy, I wrote you this easy to follow guide in the Gearbest thread. Don't know if you saw it or not.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hal...1-xiaomi-mini-25.832367/page-36#post-13840810

I know you feel like you gotta jump through a lot of hoops, but really there's only 4 things you need for Gearbest:

1. The code is on the specific item posted. For example, if there's a code for grey ZS5 with no mic, you can't pick blue with mic.
2. Some of the codes are for locked to specific countries (for shipping cost purposes). Some codes will say "these countries only", and others will say "no country restrictions" or will not say ANYTHING about countries (which, in that case is also no country restrictions).
3. There is specific times on the codes. For example, if it says it starts at xxyy time and date Beijing time, you have to abide by those parameters. I explain in more detail in the link I posted above.
4. There is inventory limits on the item. It is says "50 pcs only", then once 50 are sold the code is gone. I've herd that Aliexpress and other DEALERS often buy in bulk FROM Gearbest, because the GB price is often lower than THEY can buy the stuff from their wholesale suppliers from. Also you figure there are 7 billion people in the world, so 50 pcs only won't last too long.

Contrast this to Aliexpress 11.11, where you DO have to jump through hoops, playing games to win coins, trading coins for coupons, stacking this or that coupon, screaming into microphones, mobile games are different than PC games, etc. What a PITA.

Anyways, if you are still having trouble, lemme know and I'll do my best to help.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Don't fret buddy, I wrote you this easy to follow guide in the Gearbest thread. Don't know if you saw it or not.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hal...1-xiaomi-mini-25.832367/page-36#post-13840810
> 
> ...


ugh TLDR!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 11, 2017)

[/QUOTE]


Slater said:


> Don't fret buddy, I wrote you this easy to follow guide in the Gearbest thread. Don't know if you saw it or not.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hal...1-xiaomi-mini-25.832367/page-36#post-13840810
> 
> ...



I KID! I KID! ....I saw your post, I actually wrote that other post _after _I had figured it out and ordered a few things successfully...I wrote a post somewhat directed towards you about my choices, but I guess I forgot to tag you. Your post was informative and helpful, unlike some other peoples *ahem*....
I think this comes down to a kind of basic cultural difference: I find the marketing techniques they use more than a little frustrating, and I think others do as well.
I was actually responding to someone else bumping up against the same problems I had and trying to give them a little bit of a warning/reassurance


----------



## groucho69

page 1-666...be afraid


----------



## JayceOoi

More discount at 11.12 17:00 (GMT +8), KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - KZHM 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## SomeTechNoob

JayceOoi said:


> More discount at 11.12 17:00 (GMT +8), KZ ZS5 @ $12.99 with this code - KZHM
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html



Expired :c


----------



## JayceOoi

SomeTechNoob said:


> Expired :c


Not yet started. Wait for another 1 hour and 48 minutes.


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Nov 12, 2017)

JayceOoi said:


> Not yet started. Wait for another 1 hour and 48 minutes.



Whoops, totally glossed over the starting time.

Edit: bought one for $12.99.  Guess it's all v2's now so it'll be interesting to compare to my v1s.  Judging from last year's 11/11 though, it'll probably be at least 2.5 months before they arrive though... :c


----------



## CoiL

Damn hard to resist buying ZS5v2 for 11.90€ ....but ...want to save up for TNT or something bigger upgrade. This time I will resist! And I already have ZS5v1 which I really like.


----------



## skajohyros (Nov 12, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Damn hard to resist buying ZS5v2 for 11.90€ ....but ...want to save up for TNT or something bigger upgrade. This time I will resist! And I already have ZS5v1 which I really like.


Know the feeling. They have been in and out of the cart all week.


----------



## c4rb0n

Just ordered my TinAudio T2s for 33$ on the last 2 hours of the 11.11 sale at NiceHCK, I really love my ZS6s, but i think the ZS6 would have the edge on the T2 in terms of staging, well lets see though haha, an early christmas present for me LOL


----------



## Viber (Nov 12, 2017)

.


----------



## groucho69

Viber said:


> .



I agree! I think.


----------



## Superluc (Nov 12, 2017)

About the ideal tips for ZS6: as i said i think they need a tips with larger bore. Lurking around i have find this:







Someone use the tips from KZ ED10, on them. I don't have those, but i think they may be worth a try.


----------



## TJK81

My Spiral Dots (which has large hole) are extremely bright on my ZS5v2's. I highly recommend a foams on the ZS5. As i still do not have ZS6 i can not confirm this. But i expecting the same in the ZS6.


----------



## Slater (Nov 12, 2017)

Superluc said:


> About the ideal tips for ZS6: as i said i think they need a tips with larger bore. Lurking around i have find this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds. Nice tips, but they do tear easily when *removing* them. They separate right where the top edge and the center core meet (even brand new sets, right out of the package). You'll see if you ever go to remove them (no matter now carefully). I own a few dozen sets of the KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds, and 1 or both sides tears about 75% of the time (rendering them useless).

Other than that, they are nice tips and I like them a lot.

Never tried them on the ZS5 (v1/v2) or the ZS6. Just talking about the tips in general (which are usually in my tip rolling rotation for IEMs they fit on).

The Turbos do work excellent on the ATE.


----------



## Superluc

TJK81 said:


> My Spiral Dots (which has large hole) are extremely bright on my ZS5v2's. I highly recommend a foams on the ZS5. As i still do not have ZS6 i can not confirm this. But i expecting the same in the ZS6.


Spiral Dots are know to be treble enhancing, but i was say that soundstage/imaging-wise. For tonality and treble-taming, foams work better, without EQ.



Slater said:


> Ah, KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds. Nice tips, but they do tear easily when *removing* them. They separate right where the top edge and the center core meet (even brand new sets, right out of the package). You'll see if you ever go to remove them (no matter now carefully). I own a few dozen sets of the KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds, and 1 or both sides tears about 75% of the time (rendering them useless).
> 
> Other than that, they are nice tips and I like them a lot.


Can you carefully try them on your ZS6 ?


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> Spiral Dots are know to be treble enhancing, but i was say that soundstage/imaging-wise. For tonality and treble-taming, foams work better, without EQ.
> 
> Can you carefully try them on your ZS6 ?



Sure, I'll see if I have an already-torn pair I can try. I don't have many untorn ones left, so I don't want to waste a pair if I don't have to.

Am I just testing for fit? Or sound too?

Because as you said, wide bores enhance treble (something the ZS6 most certainly does NOT need).


----------



## Superluc

Call me a treble head, but i like more how it sound with a larger bore tips than starline ones. I'd prefer to EQ them than use a small bore tips.

If you have a broken one, let me know if they fit. I eventually buy them, anyway.


----------



## Superluc

Mmm... why not try some unusual combo... 



Francisk said:


> With 75ohms adapter on both stock starline and foam tips...sounds much worse than without the 75ohms adapter...lifeless.


Have you a pair of Spiral Dots, to use them on ZS6, along the adapter ? 

I know, it's strange, but try that can be interesting. At worst you gain a huge soundstage


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually don't like those tips but am using some silicone ones with a yellow stem, really like them but forget which iem they came with


----------



## Superluc

HungryPanda said:


> I actually don't like those tips but am using some silicone ones with a yellow stem, really like them but forget which iem they came with


https://audiobudget.com/product/LaoZhong/LZ-Z03A ?

Or this ?


----------



## trumpethead

HungryPanda said:


> I actually don't like those tips but am using some silicone ones with a yellow stem, really like them but forget which iem they came with



I think you are referring to the tips that come with LZ earphones. I like them too...


----------



## bsoplinger

HungryPanda said:


> I actually don't like those tips but am using some silicone ones with a yellow stem, really like them but forget which iem they came with


In ordering large soft foam tips to try with my fit issues I ordered the New Bee size and style pack, for lack of a better name. Mostly New Bee packages seem to be all foam tips (6 pairs total) either with all tips the same size and color or multiple pairs of S, M, L. But they do have a silicone and foam package, 2 pairs S, M and L in both foam and silicone, 6 pairs total. The silicone ones are thin black for the outer rounded part and yellow for the part that fits over the nozzle. Perhaps these?


----------



## HungryPanda

I don't like foam tips, silicone all the way for me, thanks for the ideas guys. 

The time in Bejing is now 09.56


----------



## rehbstar

recently on the 11:11 sale i bought few earphones which includes multi brands but most of them are from QKZ but when i was searching for QKZ i found 2 earphones with the same specifications from ohm's to build and looks everthing was similar except the model no ONE IS QKZ DM7 other is QKZ  X10, and speaking about about KZ & QKZ When it comes to pricing QKZ Offers low price compared to KZ but KZ offers higher Speaker Frequency Response and sounds much better than QKZ i guess that the parent company of these 2 are the same but they have just divided into different segment eg; Audi, SEAT, ŠKODA, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, Ducati, Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles, Scania and MAN.all these brands are owned by Volkswagen Group (Parent Company) but are divided into different segments to attract the customers.


----------



## young59

Hey guys I opened up my ZS5 V2 thought you might like pictures.


----------



## EISENbricher

BrunoC said:


> If you think the ZS5's soundstage is okay, I don't know what do you mean by a good soundstage!
> 
> The ZS5's soundstage IMO is the best I heard in chifi (20+) I already have. I mean, it's simply brilliant giving a tremendous sense of space and clarity.
> Also the ZS6's soundstage is norrower than the ZS5's.
> ...


Well I'd upgrade my rating on soundstage front. I experimented with different sources, found that ZS5 is very source dependent. It sounds okay-ish on my phone (Xiaomi Mi5), sounds better when paired with Amp (Topping NX1). Even better with Xduoo X2 and best, surprisingly with my laptop. Yes it does have good soundstage. I'd definitely not call it best as I have some pairs which have much wider soundstage (KZ ED8 and Havi B3 comes to mind). 

Yes, price wise it's a steal deal on gearbest. Last time I saw was available at $12.99.


----------



## CoiL

Superluc said:


> Spiral Dots are know to be treble enhancing, but i was say that soundstage/imaging-wise.


Depends on IEM actually. For example with **** 4in1 spiral dots help to tame harsh highs.



young59 said:


> Hey guys I opened up my ZS5 V2 thought you might like pictures.


What? There`s SMD resistor? Don`t remember having it on my v1. Will check right away and repot back.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Depends on IEM actually. For example with **** 4in1 spiral dots help to tame harsh highs.



Wow, good to know!



CoiL said:


> What? There`s SMD resistor? Don`t remember having it on my v1. Will check right away and repot back.



No resistor in v1.


----------



## JayceOoi

Yeah... More discount for KZ ZS6 @ $24.99 with the code KZZS611 (active on in an hour at 11.13 20:00)
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

JayceOoi said:


> Yeah... More discount for KZ ZS6 @ $24.99 with the code KZZS611 (active on in an hour at 11.13 20:00)
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html



Best price I’ve seen to date (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Scooped up a pair for Xmas gift.

$13 for ZS5 and $25 for ZS6...it's a good time for ChiFi indeed.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Wow, good to know!


Yeah, I use my spirals along with high impedance cable @ 4in1 - result is almost no harsh highs anymore and that way my 4in1 is quite neutral sounding (though mids are too neutral imo).
But it sounds little "dry" and with too short decays/reverbs which makes them little "unnatural" for my taste.


----------



## young59

CoiL said:


> Depends on IEM actually. For example with **** 4in1 spiral dots help to tame harsh highs.
> 
> 
> What? There`s SMD resistor? Don`t remember having it on my v1. Will check right away and repot back.


Yeah I found the resistor interesting that's why I posted.


----------



## stryed

Superluc said:


> About the ideal tips for ZS6: as i said i think they need a tips with larger bore. Lurking around i have find this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I use those exact tips. I bought them on Ali express under the name Kz spiral. It really tames the highs as well as improves mids. 
KZ ZS5 is very source dependant, on my laptop (surface pro 4), the highs are really tamed even with the harshest recordings.

Really enjoy my zs5, and am wondering if zs6 would be a nice addition as replacement one day, but am worried about the casing being cold during winter.


----------



## Superluc

CoiL said:


> Depends on IEM actually. For example with **** 4in1 spiral dots help to tame harsh highs.


I don't have spirals, but to me bigger bore tips make sound more bright but sibilance less perceivable, and soundstage bigger.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 13, 2017)

Superluc said:


> I don't have spirals, but to me bigger bore tips make sound more bright but sibilance less perceivable, and soundstage bigger.


Spirals are designed to remove unwanted resonances in "nozzle channel" with dots inside tip barrel. It depends on nozzle type and tip positioning distance along nozzle.
Bigger bore doesn`t always make sound bright because it depends on DD & BA positioning. If BA is front&inside nozzle and sound coming from DD is further distracted by small tip bore, then You`ll hear more (brighter) sound coming from BA. If You increase tip bore size - DD sound gets through.
Different story when BA is positioned deep in shell and away from DD canal - then increasing tip bore size may actually make sound brighter as BA highs and DD highs both get through without obstacle. Then moving to smaller bore size may be good but usually will also raise bass quantity due to shorter and "tighter" canal, making air pressure on membrane and ear-drum higher.


----------



## c4rb0n (Nov 13, 2017)

my current rankings and comparison/impressions as of now from the KZ line (which i own LOL)

1ST. ZS6 (with 3 weeks of burn in time, 4-6 hours of casual usage/day, with breaks of 30 mins to 1 hour)
--Sound Signature: Neutral *unlike when it was out from the box, the nasty treble spike got me LOL* *I have removed the foam mod now*
--Detail/Clarity: Good Separation, Sparkling smooth now after the burn in (3 weeks)
--Sound Stage: Its weird though but i find the ZST's to have a wider stage than the ZS6 LOL, I dont have the ZS5 v1's which i think have a wider sound stage than the ZS6's and ZST from what i have read from the earlier impressions here on this thread
--Comfort and Isolation: I'm still waiting for my knock off T400's to arrive and currently, i am using the stock starline tips that came with these and outside noise (engine noises when commuting via bus) does bleed inside at low volumes with these tips, the fit on these on my ears is OK though, but the ZS3 is by far the best in terms of Comfort and Isolation

2ND. ZST
--Sound Signature:




 
--Detail/Clarity: Can be REALLY HARSH, WITHOUT any mods and EQing, try listening to Marshmello - Silence (Illenium Remix) with these out of the box LOL, really harsh, but with sir @Slater 's mod, the highs are still there but in a good way, but the detail and separation from the ZS6's for me is better, if not, the best,among the 3 IMHO.
--Sound Stage: For me this has the widest stage among the three, i really enjoy using this when listening to jazz and blues though LOL
--Comfort and Isolation: Average, almost on par with the ZS6's in terms of comfort and fit and isolation IMHO

3RD: ZS3
--Sound Signature:


 

--Detail/Clarity: WARMEST/DARKEST sounding among the three, but with sir @Slater 's ZS3 mod, it could shed a light on the highs and clarity, but in terms of separation and detail, this is the last on my list
--Sound Stage: Average for me at least, i really enjoy using this when watching movies, and playing games LOL
--Comfort and Isolation: This is where the ZS3 shines, the best fit and isolation for my ears among the three, given that i have only used the stock tips that came with it, well, all stock tips on all of my KZ's as of the moment LOL

I Hope you find this Helpful brothers  greetings from the Philippines (GMT+8)


----------



## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Bigger bore doesn`t always make sound bright because it depends on DD & BA positioning. If BA is front&inside nozzle and sound coming from DD is further distracted by small tip bore, then You`ll hear more (brighter) sound coming from BA. If You increase tip bore size - DD sound gets through.
> Different story when BA is positioned deep in shell and away from DD canal - then increasing tip bore size may actually make sound brighter as BA highs and DD highs both get through without obstacle. Then moving to smaller bore size may be good but usually will also raise bass quantity due to shorter and "tighter" canal, making air pressure on membrane and ear-drum higher.



I think this is why the guy who *removed* 1xBA from the ZS6 saw such a dramatic improvement. He effectively made the nozzle larger (giving more room for the DDs), while at the same time cut the amplitude of the treble spike by the removal of 1/2 of the source drivers.

I know ATE isn't a hybrid, but I think the increase in bore size contributed significantly to your modified ATE's results. Opening up the bore and grafting on the larger ED9 nozzle onto your ATE resulted in more sound from DD getting through, and other changes in sound characteristics. Unfortunately, my attempt in the ED9 nozzle mod resulted in epic fail and ruining a pair of ATE. I haven't figured out how to do it successfully yet, short of removing the driver 1st (but there's sooo much glue).


----------



## Slater

c4rb0n said:


> my current rankings and comparison/impressions as of now from the KZ line (which i own LOL)
> 
> 1ST. ZS6 (with 3 weeks of burn in time, 4-6 hours of casual usage/day, with breaks of 30 mins to 1 hour)
> --Sound Signature: Neutral *unlike when it was out from the box, the nasty treble spike got me LOL* *I have removed the foam mod now*
> ...



Wow, that is an extremely helpful way to show the changes, and sums it up perfectly. Bookmarked for future reference - great job!


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> I think this is why the guy who *removed* 1xBA from the ZS6 saw such a dramatic improvement. He effectively made the nozzle larger (giving more room for the DDs), while at the same time cut the amplitude of the treble spike by the removal of 1/2 of the source drivers.
> 
> I know ATE isn't a hybrid, but I think the increase in bore size contributed significantly to your modified ATE's results. Opening up the bore and grafting on the larger ED9 nozzle onto your ATE resulted in more sound from DD getting through, and other changes in sound characteristics. *Unfortunately, my attempt in the ED9 nozzle mod resulted in epic fail and ruining a pair of ATE.* I haven't figured out how to do it successfully yet, short of removing the driver 1st (but there's sooo much glue).



Oh my, sorry for Your loss ;(
You do it like this:
1) You do not remove driver
2) cut down nozzle to part it makes junction
3) remove faceplates from shells
4) build holding bracket exactly in size of shells edges (needs very tight fit) in two layers - 1st is solid layer to where You place shells with drivers facing downwards, 2nd is shell edge shaped cut-out layer which holds shells in place when drilling in angular drilling bench. 1st and 2nd layer must be fixed together with glue, screws or whatever.
5) Use low rpm and metal drill when drilling, so, You`ll wind out all plastic pieces and will leave phased edge above driver at the lower part of inner nozzle. You only need drill as much ed9 nozzle winding is.
6) use gel-super-glue if You didn`t drill or have drill in exact measure of inner winding of nozzle. It works same if not better than winding it into plastic (which is harder as You may damage nozzle shape and looks).

Hope You have patience to finish that mod one day ;P


----------



## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Oh my, sorry for Your loss ;(
> You do it like this:
> 1) You do not remove driver
> 2) cut down nozzle to part it makes junction
> ...



I did 1, 2, and 3 OK.

4. I used carbide burr on Dremel to bore out inner nozzle.
5. Tried to remove all shavings, but there is also factory glue dripped in front of driver. Glue is stringy, like chewy/sticky candy or tar, and difficult to remove. Plastic shavings stuck to some stringy glue. Hard to remove every single 'glue stuck' shavings with tweezers.
6. I tried winding nozzle into the plastic to get tight fit without glue needed. Nozzle winded in crooked (different angle), and damaged nozzle shape.
7. Epic fail.

I will go back and do it your method someday. But I need a new pair of ATE 1st :0)

_Perhaps it will be easier 2nd time because I can use parts from 2 pairs of ATE to build 1 good pair of modified ATE? For example, I can cut apart shell from failed ATE to perfectly extract drivers. Then order new ATE and remove drivers with force (destroy drivers but new shells will be perfect). Then it will be easy to modify the shells of new ATE because it has no drivers or glue. Once new ATE shells are successfully modified with ED9 nozzles, final step will be to glue in the drivers from original ATE which I carefully removed.

In fact, I could even use ATR shell, because I already own (2) unused ATR. And only difference with ATR is shell plastic material and different driver. I do not like sound of ATR, so I may as well rip out the ATR driver and reuse the shell for a better purpose!_


----------



## Happy Hacking (Nov 13, 2017)

Happy Hacking said:


> Hi all, I've received my ZS6 and am kind of disappointed by the piercing 'tschh' in the highs. I've read that these could be solved by foam tips? I already have a black OFC kz cable and a kz foam tip on the way to me, but meanwhile is there anything i can do to fix the issue without tearing the thing apart? It is really hurting my ears!



Previously received my ZS6 with unbearable treble and posted the following above for advice. They have toned down and are much more bearable to listen now after roughly 20 hours of burn-in with pink noise.

I do not believe in burn in, but it seems to really work?? I'm pretty sure it's not placebo because I've put the zs6 on my ears on and off multiple times pre-burn-in and they've been unlistenable for more than a minute(hurts!!).
After burn-in period, the highs are MUCH less painful, but still uncomfortable treble peaks. I was able to commute an entire 1-hour journey without taking them off.

My cable and foam tips will arrive tomorrow and I will continue to burn in through the week. I hope the foam tips will miraculously solve my problem somehow.
Thank you all for advising and convincing me on burning them in with pink noise.


----------



## TJK81

My 75ohm impedance adapter form Penon audio just arrived. I immediately tried it with my ZS5v2's. Definitely tame that treble spike. But in hand in hand with treble spike it seems that slightly disappear a sub-bass response (IMO around 5dB). It's pretty noticable in complete sound. Same happened with a sound of the ES3's. I'm a little bit surpised. Did you guys notice the same (let's say) issue???


----------



## CoiL (Nov 13, 2017)

Slater said:


> _Perhaps it will be easier 2nd time because I can use parts from 2 pairs of ATE to build 1 good pair of modified ATE? For example, I can cut apart shell from failed ATE to perfectly extract drivers. Then order new ATE and remove drivers with force (destroy drivers but new shells will be perfect). Then it will be easy to modify the shells of new ATE because it has no drivers or glue. Once new ATE shells are successfully modified with ED9 nozzles, final step will be to glue in the drivers from original ATE which I carefully removed.
> 
> In fact, I could even use ATR shell, because I already own (2) unused ATR. And only difference with ATR is shell plastic material and different driver. I do not like sound of ATR, so I may as well rip out the ATR driver and reuse the shell for a better purpose!_



Please do not destroy ATR drivers, they are very good actually in certain implementation imho. Just send them to me letter-packet ;D
But yeah, You can use ATR shells easily. I haven`t had any problem with drilling and plastic/glue pieces, no sticky glue in front of driver with units I`ve had so far.
Btw, I ordered some Fonge T01 DD IEMs that are dirt cheap, 2-3€ pair with 2-pin cable and will try to implement ATE drivers with additional BA in them 
I will provide guide and impressions when I finish them (atm I`m still busy with wooden IEM development for another small launching audio "company").

Btw, I recommend to use ED9 golden nozzles BUT You need to remove/overdrill inner "lip" of golden nozzle - otherwise You get too much bass "boost", imo. ATE requires as free as possible nozzle channel imo (metal nozzle preferred), and "trompet"-like nozzle edge (similar like ED9 gold nozzle).


----------



## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

Superluc said:


> About the ideal tips for ZS6: as i said i think they need a tips with larger bore. Lurking around i have find this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> Ah, KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds. Nice tips, but they do tear easily when *removing* them. They separate right where the top edge and the center core meet (even brand new sets, right out of the package). You'll see if you ever go to remove them (no matter now carefully). I own a few dozen sets of the KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds, and 1 or both sides tears about 75% of the time (rendering them useless).
> 
> Other than that, they are nice tips and I like them a lot.
> 
> ...





Superluc said:


> *Can you carefully try them on your ZS6 ?*



OK I had a chance to try the KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds on my ZS6 today, as well as some other tips.

I am amazed at how completely different the ZS6 sounds with different tips. It turns into a totally different IEM with one type of tip vs another (for better or worse).

All tip rolling was done with both an iPhone SE (by itself) and also with my xduoo X3/Fiio E12A Mont Blanc combination. ZS6 is totally stock (no mods) other than burn-in and KZ 6-braid silver cable.

Test tracks (flac rips from "Funplex" CD):

B-52s - Juliet of the Spirits
B-52s - Pump
Both tracks are quite bright (recorded with hot mics it sounds like), with female vocals, and very splashy and bright cymbals and other sounds. Pump also has a high frequency 'buzzing' sounds in the beginning and also in the chorus, that on overly bright and/or sibilant headphones will sound like a swarm of locusts or mechanical hornets in a metal trash can. Cymbals will sound too sizzly and almost hurt your ears. You'll understand what I'm talking about when you hear both tracks. *If you can successfully make it through both of the above tracks 100% without feeling like poking your ear drums out with hot pokers, then you have a winner. *The smoother sounding the better - you'll notice the sound differences right away in those 2 tracks when tip/pad rolling.

*KZ Starlines (black; stock ZS6 tips):*

Ear fit 10/10 (M size)
Nozzle fit 10/10 (very tight)
Great insertion depth
Boosted sub-bass to muddy/tubby levels
Bass bleeding into midrange
Sounds like artificially boosted bass/"loudness"
_Final verdict - Excellent fit on nozzle, perfect insertion depth, and best seal of all. You could skydive with these tips and they wouldn't budge an inch. However, the tight seal and tiny tip outlet causes artificially boosted bass. You may as well buy Beats. Not well suited to ZS6 because the boosted bass ruins the experience IMO. Very sad, because they are awesome tips on a lot of other IEMs._


*DIY Sony Hybrids/Symbios (ie hybrid foam/silicone):*

Ear fit 8/10 (M size)
Nozzle fit 7/10 (tight but not fall off loose)
Great insertion depth
Boosted sub-bass
Bass bleeding into midrange
Sounds like artificially boosted bass/"loudness"
_Final verdict - Just like the stock Starlines, the tight seal and tiny tip outlet causes artificially boosted bass. You may as well buy Beats. Not well suited to ZS6 because the boosted bass ruins the experience IMO._


*KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds:*

Ear fit 7/10 (tried M and L sizes)
Nozzle fit 8/10 (not as tight on the nozzle as the Starlines, but not so loose that they fall off).
The only tip that caused fatigue after a while.
Reduced sub-bass (which is why I also tried L tips). L tips slightly better, but still not enough bass for my tastes.
Increased midrange slightly
Increased treble (or at least let the full amount of treble the ZS6 is capable of directly through to your eardrums)
Some tracks sibilant
Increased the illusion of clarity (due to the increase in treble)
Increased airyness, and bigger soundstage
_Final Verdict - If you are one of the people who ISN'T bothered by the ZS6 treble, give them a try. They'll likely be too bright if you have NOT done any mods to your ZS6. If you HAVE done non-tip mods to reduce treble (such as adding foam, gluing 1xBA shut, removing 1xBA), then these would be a nice tip option for sure._


*Generic/Unknown "wide bore" tips (ie 6 different ones):*

Ear fit varied 3/10 to 6/10 (tried M and L sizes)
Nozzle fit 4/10 to 6/10 (tight enough to stay on, but could possibly fall off upon ear removal).
Had insertion depth issues with all tips. The KZ Whirlwinds sit taller on the nozzle, allowing a good insertion. 4 of the 6 generic/unknown tips were a little shallower in design, and when fully seated on the nozzle had less distance between the top edge of the nozzle and the top edge of the tip. This caused shallow insertion and sound degraded as a result. Perhaps if I stuck a keyboard oring on the bottom of the nozzle before I put on the tip, it would have helped by raising the tip up.
Reduced sub-bass (which is why I also tried L tips). L tips slightly better, but still not enough bass for my tastes.
Increased treble (or at least let the full amount of treble the ZS6 is capable of through to your eardrums). Some added sibilance.
Most improved soundstage
_Final Verdict - Meh, no thanks. If you want a wide bore tip I recommend the KZ Turbo/Whirlwind, as they fit the nozzle best and have far superior insertion due to dimensions. Obviously I didn't try every wide bore tip out there, so YMMV._


*"Wedge" style foams (ie generic Complys, fast rebound):*

Ear fit 6/10 (M ear size, T400/T500 nozzle size)
Nozzle fit 9/10 (not as tight on the nozzle as the Starlines, but no danger of falling off).
Smooth bass, great midrange. Just the right balance of both.
Decreased treble (I guesstimate 5dB)
Slight improvement in sound stage
Uncomfortable fit, awkward insertion depth. The tips are too long as-is, *but cutting them down with scissors corrected all fitment and insertion issues, upping the 'ear fit' from a 6/10 to a 9/10.*
_Final Verdict - If you are one of the people who IS bothered by the ZS6 treble, give them a try for. If you have done any non-tip mods to your ZS6 (such as adding foam, gluing 1xBA shut, removing 1xBA), then these would be a nice tip option for sure. If you have insertion depth issues, trim with scissors or try ordering 1 size SMALLER from the seller (ie still T400/T500 nozzle size; but go 1 outside ear size smaller which in my case would be from M-->S)._


*"Ball" style foams (slow rebound):*

Bought from here (reliable seller, excellent quality): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8pa...w-Rebound-Eartips-For-In-Ear/32605250267.html
Ear fit 9/10 (T400/T500 nozzle size)
Nozzle fit 9/10 (not as tight on the nozzle as the Starlines, but no danger of falling off).
Smooth bass, great midrange. Just the right balance of both.
SIGNIFICANTLY decreased treble compared to the wedge foams (I guesstimate at LEAST 10-13dB, possibly higher). Did I mention significantly decreased treble?
Slight improvement in sound stage
Great fit, great insertion depth.
_Final Verdict - If you are one of the people who IS bothered by the ZS6 treble, THESE are 100% your tips; no doubt about it. No need to do any non-tip mods to your ZS6 (such as adding foam, gluing 1xBA shut, removing 1xBA). If you are one of the who is NOT bothered by the ZS6 treble, these will cut the treble way too much, sucking much of the life out of the ZS6 and reducing the enjoyment factor considerably. I LOVED the comfort and fit, but unfortunately it just cut the treble too much for me._


*Dual Flange Silicone tips:*

Bought from here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Pa...eadset-Earplug-Ear-Tips-pads/32552830443.html
Ear fit 8/10 (M size)
Nozzle fit 7/10. Fit nozzle OK, but can sometimes pop off when removing IEM and stay in ear
Great insertion depth
Great seal
Slightly elevated subbass, nice and punchy with no muddiness or bleeding into midrange at all.
Improvement in sound stage
No real change in treble. No increase, no decrease.
Long sessions are impossible however, as multi-flange tips always cause my ears to itch
_Final verdict - If it wasn't for the itchyness, these would be the ideal silicone tips. I may use them for shorter listening periods, and just remove when my ears start to itch. The sub bass is the perfect amount of sub bass for EDM genres, and definitely not as boosted as the Starlines. If you ARE bothered by the ZS6 treble, skip these. *If you are NOT bothered by the ZS6 treble, or if you HAVE done non-tip mods to the ZS6 (such as adding foam, gluing 1xBA shut, removing 1xBA), then these should definitely be at the TOP of your list of tips to try.*_


*10+ Misc silicone tips (KZ ED9, MEMT X5, Rock Zircon, Gray KZ Starlines, generic small bore):*

Ear fit varied.
Nozzle fit varied. Some fit better than others.
Insertion depth varied. Most had insertion depth problems (seems to be a common problem with ZS6).
Anything with a small bore boosted sub-bass
_Final verdict - All of these misc tips had really small outlets, like the Starlines, which causes the boosted sub-bass. All of them I tried just weren't well suited to ZS6 because the boosted bass ruined the experience IMO.
_

*Tips/Combinations I did NOT try but plan to at some point:*

KZ Turbo/Whirlwind in combination WITH ZS6 mods (adding foam, gluing 1xBA shut, removing 1xBA)
JVC Spiral Dots (don't have any at the moment, unknown if fit nozzle)
Spin Fits (don't have any, unknown if fit nozzle)
*(** See update below **) *Magaosi K3 Pro stock tips (unknown if fit nozzle)
*(** See update below **) *JVC CH9T stock tips (unknown if fit nozzle)
*(** See update below **)* KZ gel foams from ATE (yeah I know they split due to the lack of a tube bonded in the middle, but I wanted to try anyways)
*(** See update below **) *Double flange tips from KZ HDS2 (if they fit)

**********************************************************************************************************************************

*** Update: I tried a few more tips from that "to do" list above, and here are the results.*

*KZ ATE stock 'gel foam' tips:*

Technically fit nozzle
Uncomfortable (may as well be made of hard plastic)
Sound like crap
Fall off nozzle when you remove IEM from ears (tips stay in ears)
_Final Verdict: Don't bother._


*JVC CH9T stock tips:*
_Final Verdict: Don't fit due to comically large nozzle on CH9T. Don't bother._


*KZ HDS2 double flange tips (M size):*

Nozzle fit 7/10 (fit nozzle decent, and stay on nozzle when removing from ears
Ear Fit 6/10. These are oddball tips. Dual flange, but both flanges are the same size. I was lucky enough to have the M tip fit my ears perfectly. The strange thing is that when used on the HDS2 the tips don't fit that great because the HDS2 nozzle is bigger and deforms the tips.
Looks really cool on the ZS6
Bigger soundstage
Good enough insertion and seal (not as good of a seal as the "xmas tree" style dual flange, since both flanges of the HDS2 tip are the same size)
A tad less bass than foam tips. Still plenty of bass to be balanced.
Makes the ZS6 more U or even a bit W shaped by pushing the midrange forward slightly.
Same amount of treble as the KZ Turbos/Whirlwinds (tip opening is the same ie large @ 5mm).
_Final verdict: I actually like these tips, but like the more traditional double flange tips better. The medium sized tip bore seems to be the magic sauce._


*Magaosi K3 Pro stock clear silicone tips (M size):*

Ear fit 9/10
Nozzle fit 9/10 (not as tight as the KZ Starline, but almost as tight. Certainly won't fall off.)
Bass is punchy and juicy
Treble is tamed quite a bit. I can't explain how this is possible on a silicone tip, but it seems to be lowered by 3-4dB. No sibilance, and treble is smooth.
Took away some of the 'airyness' and 'openness' of the ZS6 though. Like they're a little more closed in, like going from an open headphone to a closed headphone. It's a good thing though - certainly not as bad as it sounds.
Improved isolation 100%.
Made the whole sound more "smooth" overall. Not veiled, but it just removed any hint of sharpness.
I think this is caused by the thickness of these tips. They are the thickest silicone tips I've ever seen; like 2-3xs thicker silicone than any other tip I own. You know how the KZ Starlines are "thicker" than most tips? These are easily twice as thick/stiff as that, except high quality silicone so they are still soft like silicone. Hard to explain, easy to experience in person.
_Final Verdict: Wow, I am floored. These are like cream in your coffee - smooth, creamy, and easy like a Sunday morning. These are the ideal silicone tips for the ZS6. Too bad you can't buy them separately. If I can find them in generic form from an Aliexpress seller, I'm gonna buy a suitcase full. Because these tips kick arse on every IEM I've tried them on. Unfortunately, I also like them on the Magaosi K3 Pro, so back onto them they go :0(


_
*NEW Overall rating of ALL TESTED tips (in order of preference):

If you ARE ZS6 Treble sensitive and have NO foam mods:*

"Ball" style foams - massive treble cut, instant cure for treble sensitivity

"Wedge" style foams (ie generic Complys) - "Goldilocks" tip, depending on ear fit/length and if they need to be cut down
Magaosi K3 Pro tips (good luck getting)
*Not recommended* Dual Flange Silicone tips
*Not recommended* KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds
*Not recommended* Everything else tested (KZ Starlines, misc silicone tips, DIY Symbios, generic wide bores)
*If you ARE NOT ZS6 Treble sensitive and have NO foam mods:*

Magaosi K3 Pro tips (good luck getting)
Shortened "Wedge" style foams (ie generic Complys)- "Goldilocks" tip, depending on ear fit/length and if they need to be cut down
Dual Flange Silicone tips
KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds
*Not recommended* "Ball" style foams - cuts too much treble
*Not recommended* Everything else tested (KZ Starlines, misc silicone tips, DIY Symbios, generic wide bores)
The above list should change if I had done any EQing. It will also change with ZS6 mods. _Based on my gut feeling and testing so far, I suspect that *with BA and/or foam mods*, one of the most ideal tips will be something wide bore that allows proper fit and insertion - KZ Turbo/Whirlwind, possibly JVC Spiral Dots, etc_. I plan on starting some mods in the next few weeks, at which point I'll also retest this tip rolling list. So continue to stay tuned.


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## stryed (Nov 13, 2017)

Slater said:


> OK I had a chance to try the KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds on my *100% stock* ZS6 today, as well as some other tips.
> 
> I am amazed at how completely different the ZS6 sounds with different tips. It sounds like a totally different IEM with one type of tip vs another.
> 
> ...



Strangely, I don't hear the same thing after A/Bing them on my KZ5 thoroughly a week ago. A bit lazy to redo it, but I definitely found the treble peak to sound diluted. Perhaps that with the increased midrange, I end up lowering volume. (sub)bass isn't altered that much although there is less reverb. 
I do find the Turbos more comfortable than the black stock ones as the stocks are painful for me.

Thanks for the effort.


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## Superluc

Slater said:


> *Tips/Combinations I did NOT try but plan to at some point:*
> 
> KZ Turbo/Whirlwind in combination WITH ZS6 mods (adding foam, gluing 1xBA shut, removing 1xBA)
> JVC Spiral Dots (don't have any at the moment)


Have you also consider the combo with an impedance adapter ?

Anyway, thanks for the comparison. I think of try at least the KZ Turbo and some of the double flanges that comes with the Memt X5, when i can use the ZS6 with the adapter. 

Someone can try the Spiral and see if they fit ?


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## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Have you also consider the combo with an impedance adapter ?
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the comparison. I think of try at least the KZ Turbo and some of the double flanges that comes with the Memt X5, when i can use the ZS6 with the adapter.
> 
> Someone can try the Spiral and see if they fit ?



I don't have any impedance adapters at the moment. I guess I could make one, but I have had zero impedance matching issues with my sources and the ZS6, so never had a need to try one on the ZS6.

If anyone is interested, I can post the link to the double flange tips I tested with (bought from Aliexpress very cheaply).


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## Superluc

Slater said:


> If anyone is interested, I can post the link to the double flange tips I tested with (bought from Aliexpress very cheaply).


Sure


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## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Sure



Here you go:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Pa...eadset-Earplug-Ear-Tips-pads/32552830443.html

Their opening is kind of between most silicone tips (small) and a wide bore tip. I'd call it a medium bore tip. I am assuming this is the main reason why it sounds so good. If it wasn't for itching my ears, these would be the ideal ZS6 silicone tip for non-treble sensitive people IMO.

So if multi-flange tips don't bother your ears folks, by all means throw down a measly dollar and try some of these tips out!

Note that Medium is the only OD ear size offered. So if you normally wear M size silicone tips, these will fit your ears just fine.

Update: I found some double-flange in SML sizes. They look like wide bore, so YMMV as to how they fit or what they sound like. They are dirt cheap though, so no harm in trying:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6-p...-Headset-Eartips-Earplug-Ear/32700128989.html


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## Superluc

Slater said:


> Their opening is kind of between most silicone tips (small) and a wide bore tip. I'd call it a medium bore tip. I am assuming this is the main reason why it sounds so good. If it wasn't for itching my ears, these would be the ideal ZS6 silicone tip for non-treble sensitive people IMO.


It may be. The bore look in-between the two set of duals i have for the Memt, like the new bee silicon i'm using on it and the ones from the Rock Zircon.
But... are you sure that the problem of your itchiness is the structure and not the material ? Seem something like hard plastic from the photos


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## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

Superluc said:


> It may be. The bore look in-between the two set of duals i have for the Memt, like the new bee silicon i'm using on it and the ones from the Rock Zircon.
> But... are you sure that the problem of your itchiness is the structure and not the material ? Seem something like hard plastic from the photos



No, the 1st ones I linked in my post are made of nice soft silicone - certainly not hard plastic.

Every 2 and 3 flange eartip I've ever tried has always bothered my ears. If I had to guess, I think it's the edge of the top "flange" tickling my ear canal (or hairs in my ear canal). No way to really know for sure though.

See the part indicated by the arrow in this photo of a generic double-flange tip?


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## Superluc (Nov 13, 2017)

Ok. The ones from the second link seem like the wider bore set for the Memt, but the X5 have a joint for fit them, the ZS6 lack that and the fit is not tight enough.

EDIT: considering my problem with longer foams that push the rear of the ZS6 against my ears, the dual flange are also not an ideal option for me. Oh well... could be useful for others.


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## Happy Hacking

Slater said:


> OK I had a chance to try the KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds on my ZS6 today, as well as some other tips.
> 
> I am amazed at how completely different the ZS6 sounds with different tips. It turns into a totally different IEM with one type of tip vs another (for better or worse).
> 
> ...



Fantastic writeup, Slater. 
You have me narrowed down on the round foam tips. However, as mentioned by other users before, foam tips by KZ are not recommended and the general t400 knockoffs are better for the zs6. However, i cant tell them apart on aliexpress, and most of them carry only the kz version. Do you have a link for the rounded foam tips that you currently own? Preferably a link to aliexpress as it is easier to buy them from asia.

Thank you!


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## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

FYI, I just updated my ear tip post with new tips tested, test tracks used (listed at the beginning), revised a few previously tested tips due to additional testing, and final updated score lists at the bottom of the post.

Also, I don't see any reason why the same information won't apply to the ZS5 v2, since it's basically an identical twin to the ZS6 (in construction and sound). I know a lot of people are unhappy with the ZS5 v2, so perhaps this information can allow those people to enjoy them once they have more enjoyable tips on.

Enjoy.


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## Slater

Happy Hacking said:


> Fantastic writeup, Slater.
> You have me narrowed down on the round foam tips. However, as mentioned by other users before, foam tips by KZ are not recommended and the general t400 knockoffs are better for the zs6. However, i cant tell them apart on aliexpress, and most of them carry only the kz version. Do you have a link for the rounded foam tips that you currently own? Preferably a link to aliexpress as it is easier to buy them from asia.
> 
> Thank you!



These are the ones I buy (slow rebound, high quality, reliable seller, perfect fit for ZS5/ZS6).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8pa...w-Rebound-Eartips-For-In-Ear/32605250267.html


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## Happy Hacking (Nov 13, 2017)

Slater said:


> These are the ones I buy (slow rebound, high quality, reliable seller, perfect fit for ZS5/ZS6).
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8pa...w-Rebound-Eartips-For-In-Ear/32605250267.html



How did i miss these from nicehck!!
Thank you slater! You are amazing 

Btw, your signature has got me flippin the pins on the zs6 for a better lock. Cant thank you enough for the wealth of knowledge and resource you provide in headfi!


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## Slater (Nov 13, 2017)

Happy Hacking said:


> How did i miss these from nicehck!!
> Thank you slater! You are amazing
> 
> Btw, your signature has got me flippin the pins on the zs6 for a better lock. Cant thank you enough for the wealth of knowledge and resource you provide in headfi!



Glad to help out.

Yeah, you want those pins the correct way. In addition to locking in properly, having them backwards could cause them to be out of phase and sound really odd (especially bass).

Here's a recent post that includes 2 different polarity tests that will get you all squared away (if they weren't already in my signature link):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1664#post-13842108


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## Cruelhand Luke

[QUOTE="Slater, post: 13849052, member: 427234"
Also, I don't see any reason why the same information won't apply to the ZS5 v2, since it's basically an identical twin to the ZS6 (in construction and sound).
[/QUOTE]
This is why I got a ZS5 for $13.00 but laid off getting a ZS6 for $25.00. 
The ZS6 seems a little better in materials/design...arguably?....but in terms of SQ it seems like it is a push...so for me, for half the money but basically the same quality of sound, I went with ZS5


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## Slater (Nov 14, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> This is why I got a ZS5 for $13.00 but laid off getting a ZS6 for $25.00.
> The ZS6 seems a little better in materials/design...arguably?....but in terms of SQ it seems like it is a push...so for me, for half the money but basically the same quality of sound, I went with ZS5



Sure, I can see how that argument can be made.

I think you made the right choice - the ZS5 v2 for half the cost is a no brainer. When you boil it down, the extra cost is just the aluminum housing and a few cool colors that are only available on the ZS6. That's worth the extra dough for some, and not worth it for others.

I will say that the ZS6 is a tad more comfortable, due to the revised angles on 1 side of the shell, and an extra 'shelf' on the rear of the housing. Even though the comfort of the ZS5 doesn't bother everyone's ears, more than 1 owner has sanded down some of the sharp edges on their ZS5 housing to improve comfort.

The ZS6 will likely keep dropping. It's well on it's way to sub $20. I think that will happen when it's no longer KZ's TOTL model. It's happened to all of their models - I remember the prices when the ZS5 1st came out. Now you can get it for under $13!


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## Happy Hacking

Slater said:


> Glad to help out.
> 
> Yeah, you want those pins the correct way. In addition to locking in properly, having them backwards will cause them to be out of phase and sound really odd (especially bass).
> 
> ...



I've read about that but didnt really hear anything wrong with the earphones before flipping the pins correctly - because i couldn't put them in my ears for longer than a minute thanks to the screeching treble 

Happier with zs6 now after burning in with pink noise and using foam tips(long). I've trimmed them a little but hope to try the rounded ones for a better fit.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Sure, I can see how that argument can be made.
> 
> I think you made the right choice - the ZS5 v2 for half the cost is a no brainer. When you boil it down, the extra cost is just the aluminum housing and a few cool colors that are only available on the ZS6. That's worth the extra dough for some, and not worth it for others.
> 
> ...



I agree with your price predictions...I've been following this thread for a while, and it seems logical that the ZS6 could be had for $15.00 this time next year, the same way the ZS5 was $13.00 this year...hopefully my ZS5 will still be going strong and I can compare the two while the rest of you argue about how much better the ZS7 is, and if it's really worth the price increase.


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I agree with your price predictions...I've been following this thread for a while, and it seems logical that the ZS6 could be had for $15.00 this time next year, the same way the ZS5 was $13.00 this year...*hopefully my ZS5 will still be going strong and I can compare the two while the rest of you argue about how much better the ZS7 is, and if it's really worth the price increase.*



haha, so true


----------



## CoiL

Slater, I hope You don`t have ~40 tips like I do ...tip-rolling all those would be pita, I would give You a medal! ;D


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> OK I had a chance to try the KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds on my ZS6 today, as well as some other tips.
> 
> I am amazed at how completely different the ZS6 sounds with different tips. It turns into a totally different IEM with one type of tip vs another (for better or worse).
> 
> ...




It is interesting and perhaps serendipity ... I never had any (serious) treble issues with the ZS5v2 nor the ZS6.  Out of the box, I used the stock KZ silicone tips, found the 2 earphones a little bright (but not unbearable) but toned down a fair bit after about 24 hours worth of burn-in.  And I switched over to the the ball type foams (during the remote burn-in time frame) purely because I found them to be far more comfortable to my ears compared to the standard wedges to my ears from previous experience with other earphones. 

Turns out they were the  'best' choice for these earphones !   

For people who don't like the deep insertion feel of wedge foams, the ball types are really a good option for seal and comfort.  They cost a little bit more but not by much.  Well worth the comfort and seal enhancement without necessitating a deep insertion depth.  

Thanks for great testing and comparison ! (y)


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## ivo001

Can anybody explain me what "tip-rolling" actually means?
For some reason it makes me think about joints, even though I never smoked.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Slater, I hope You don`t have ~40 tips like I do ...tip-rolling all those would be pita, I would give You a medal! ;D



I'm getting there - probably have ~25 right now.

I have 2 big plastic storage boxes just for tips (1 for foam and 1 for silicone). They are both full to the very top - I can't fit any more inside!


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## HiFiChris

ivo001 said:


> Can anybody explain me what "tip-rolling" actually means?
> For some reason it makes me think about joints, even though I never smoked.



It means that you're trying different tips than those that came with the in-ear, either to slightly adjust the sound signature (due to different bore length and diameter or tip material) or in order to get improve comfort.


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## Slater (Nov 14, 2017)

ivo001 said:


> Can anybody explain me what "tip-rolling" actually means?
> For some reason it makes me think about joints, even though I never smoked.



You can change the characteristics of earphones and headphones by trying different eartips (earphones) and earpads (headphones). Different types can change the sound, change the comfort, change the fit, change the looks, etc.

The manufacturer often makes a poor choice in the selection of what they provide with the gear, usually dictated by cost. For example, with headphones you can use velour pads, leather pads, pleather pads, fabric pads, hybrid pads, angled pads, thicker or thinner pads, pads with different ID (for more room for your ears), vented pads, different colors (for style), and even different shapes (such as round pads on an oval earcup or the other way around).

The same is true for earphones (IEM). There are many different types, sizes, and shapes of ear tips.

So when talking about changing multiple tips for IEMs to try and find the best combination (for fit, sound, comfort, etc), we call this "tip rolling". For headphones, we call this "pad rolling". No clue who coined the phrase (maybe Nathaniel Baldwin lol).


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## ivo001

Thanks for the explanations Slater and Chris. "Tip fitting" would make more sense to me. I was thinking this rolling was to slightly alter diameter or something by compressing the tips bij rolling them in between surfaces haha.
I hate putting these tips on earphones a lot. Took me almost 10 mins to switch the medium tips on my new Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD to the large ones, only to realise that the medium were better for me and had to switch it back.


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## skajohyros

ivo001 said:


> Thanks for the explanations Slater and Chris. "Tip fitting" would make more sense to me. I was thinking this rolling was to slightly alter diameter or something by compressing the tips bij rolling them in between surfaces haha.
> I hate putting these tips on earphones a lot. Took me almost 10 mins to switch the medium tips on my new Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD to the large ones, only to realise that the medium were better for me and had to switch it back.



The tips that come with the pro hd are rubbish. Try something else.


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## ivo001

skajohyros said:


> The tips that come with the pro hd are rubbish. Try something else.


Looking through my Aliexpress history I see that I have ordered some KZ foam tips before that I should have laying around.
https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...&orderId=77436628723596&productId=32419364287

And past 11.11 I have ordered these as well:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...32548926787.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.QMI3C7


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## Slater

Well folks, it happened sooner than we thought.

ZS6 has now hit sub-$20usd shipped.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/spe...-earphones-16-99.832367/page-39#post-13849702

Act quick. Red and black only. Code is only good to some countries (US is included).


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## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> Well folks, it happened sooner than we thought.
> 
> ZS6 has now hit sub-$20usd shipped.
> …
> Act quick. Red and black only. Code is only good to some countries (US is included).


The code isn't working for me. Only been 40 minutes since George posted it. A few other people have said that it doesn't work for them either.


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## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> The code isn't working for me. Only been 40 minutes since George posted it. A few other people have said that it doesn't work for them either.


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## bsoplinger

Slater said:


>


Looks like its your Bluetooth headset problem all over again. That's what you were trying to get that took a number of tries until you got a working code wasn't it? And like that time I'm sure @George-gearbest will fix the code not working problem for the ZS6. He's rather good about being helpful.


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## oyobass (Nov 14, 2017)

Slater said:


> Sure, I can see how that argument can be made.
> 
> I think you made the right choice - the ZS5 v2 for half the cost is a no brainer. When you boil it down, the extra cost is just the aluminum housing and a few cool colors that are only available on the ZS6. That's worth the extra dough for some, and not worth it for others.
> 
> ...


I am the owner that sanded down the edges on my ZS5 v1. The ZS6 is still light years ahead in comfort, at least for my ears.

I'm very tempted to buy a ZS5 v.2 for comparison to both the v.1 and the ZS6 for sound quality, but that means I'll have to stop listening to the ZS6 for a few moments. I find it very hard to listen to other IEMs after having heard KZ's latest and greatest.


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## Slater

oyobass said:


> I am the owner that sanded down the edges on my ZS5 v1. The ZS6 is still light years ahead in comfort, at least for my ears.
> 
> I'm very tempted to buy a ZS5 v.2 for comparison to both the v.2 and the ZS6 for sound quality, but that means I'll have to stop listening to the ZS6 for a few moments. I find it very hard to listen to other IEMs after having heard KZ's latest and greatest.



This is your handiwork? Kudos to you sir; very impressive work!


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## TJK81

Finaly My ZS6's arrived.
Put braided silver plated cable and foams. 
First impressions... No treble canon or nuke. Bass heavy (more than ZS5v2's) better mids, and less soundstage (compared to ZS5v2's) - IMO because of the little bit tamed treble compared to v2's. Similar imaging and layering... But honeymoon it is in the beginning yet. I noticed the 2pin connector is loosen (not tightly fitted as in the v2). Do you have same experience?


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## Slater

TJK81 said:


> Finaly My ZS6's arrived.
> Put braided silver plated cable and foams.
> First impressions... No treble canon or nuke. Bass heavy (more than ZS5v2's) better mids, and less soundstage (compared to ZS5v2's) - IMO because of the little bit tamed treble compared to v2's. Similar imaging and layering... But honeymoon it is in the beginning yet. I noticed the 2pin connector is loosen (not tightly fitted as in the v2). Do you have same experience?



I remember someone recently (in last 2 weeks) said their ZS6 connector was loose, and they corrected it by opening it up and putting a small bit of epoxy (or maybe it was hot glue) on the connector and then closing the case up. You could do a search (select the 'in this thread only' search option) to be sure.

Some of the sound differences are the aluminum housing and open grille. But the extra bass is due to the bass vent hole, which is 50% smaller on the ZS6. The better mids on the ZS6 is due to the tape being removed from the midrange driver's vent.

If you are interested, you could make your ZS5 v2 sound more like your ZS6 by:

Removing the back cover and removing the tape over the midrange vent
Putting a small piece of tape over 1/2 of the bass vent hole by the nozzle

Here are photos where you can see the tape and the bass vent hole by the nozzle (click for larger view):


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## oyobass

Slater said:


> This is your handiwork? Kudos to you sir; very impressive work!


That is not mine, unfortunately. My hat is off to that modder, it is beautiful work.

I took off the minimum amount of material from the part facing the ear in order to take off the sharp edges, much more crudely done than your photo. Mine look stock when worn, the only mods are facing in towards my head.


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## HiFiChris

TJK81 said:


> Finaly My ZS6's arrived.
> Put braided silver plated cable and foams.
> First impressions... No treble canon or nuke. Bass heavy (more than ZS5v2's) better mids, and less soundstage (compared to ZS5v2's) - IMO because of the little bit tamed treble compared to v2's. Similar imaging and layering... But honeymoon it is in the beginning yet. I noticed the 2pin connector is loosen (not tightly fitted as in the v2). Do you have same experience?



What's your used source device? The ZS6's over-emphasised upper treble gets quite drastically reduces the higher the output impedance of the used source device is.


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## TJK81

HiFiChris said:


> What's your used source device? The ZS6's over-emphasised upper treble gets quite drastically reduces the higher the output impedance of the used source device is.


I'm using Dragonfly v1.2 as my main source device. I'm guessing it has something around 12ohm output impedance.


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## Slater (Nov 14, 2017)

oyobass said:


> That is not mine, unfortunately. My hat is off to that modder, it is beautiful work.
> 
> I took off the minimum amount of material from the part facing the ear in order to take off the sharp edges, much more crudely done than your photo. Mine look stock when worn, the only mods are facing in towards my head.



Did it help, or do you still have comfort issues?

Because for my ears, this spot on the ZS5 is the source of my comfort issues. You can see how sharp it is on the ZS5, and how it was made much smoother on the ZS6 (where the arrows are pointing).


 

I have not sanded down mine yet, because I enjoy listening to my ZS6 much more so the ZS5 doesn't get much play time any more.


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## TJK81

Slater said:


> I remember someone recently (in last 2 weeks) said their ZS6 connector was loose, and they corrected it by opening it up and putting a small bit of epoxy (or maybe it was hot glue) on the connector and then closing the case up. You could do a search (select the 'in this thread only' search option) to be sure.
> 
> Some of the sound differences are the aluminum housing and open grille. But the extra bass is due to the bass vent hole, which is 50% smaller on the ZS6. The better mids on the ZS6 is due to the tape being removed from the midrange driver's vent.
> 
> ...



Thanks mate for the suggestions. With my custom moded connector, cable fitting into earphones connector is better now. Maybe i will try to glue it with a little bit of epoxy.
BTW: Your post with tips comparison on your ZS6's is fabulous. One of the best post here. Really appreciate that.


----------



## HiFiChris

TJK81 said:


> I'm using Dragonfly v1.2 as my main source device. I'm guessing it has something around 12ohm output impedance.



Well, that of course explains why the treble isn't overly present or harsh.


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## oyobass

Slater said:


> Did it help, or do you still have comfort issues?
> 
> Because for my ears, this spot on the ZS5 is the source of my comfort issues. You can see how sharp it is on the ZS5, and how it was made much smoother on the ZS6 (where the arrows are pointing).
> 
> ...


the opposite end was what caused problems for me. There is a picture in this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1460#post-13736975 , although I ended up smoothing the quick file job with some sandpaper to make it look and feel better.

I know what you mean. My ZS5 now sits lonely in the ZS6 box. I just pulled it out today to check its fit before responding to you...and back in the box it goes.


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## Slater

oyobass said:


> the opposite end was what caused problems for me. There is a picture in this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1460#post-13736975 , although I ended up smoothing the quick file job with some sandpaper to make it look and feel better.
> 
> I know what you mean. My ZS5 now sits lonely in the ZS6 box. I just pulled it out today to check its fit before responding to you...and back in the box it goes.



Ah, I remember seeing that photo now. Thanks for sharing.


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## Slater (Nov 14, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> Well, that of course explains why the treble isn't overly present or harsh.



What’s the best method to test for output impedance?

Take an old cable, cut the wires near the 3.5mm plug, insert into source, and measure resistance between ground and one of the channels?


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## HiFiChris

Slater said:


> What’s the best method to test for output impedance?
> 
> Take an old cable, cut the wires near the 3.5mm plug, insert into source, and measure resistance between ground and one of the channels?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...urements-in-post-3-tutorial-in-post-2.800208/

Or with a multimeter, fixed sine test tone, two different resistors and some calculation (e.g. http://homediyelectronics.com/tutorials/howtomeasureoutputimpedance/).


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## Slater (Nov 14, 2017)

oyobass said:


> the opposite end was what caused problems for me. There is a picture in this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1460#post-13736975 , although I ended up smoothing the quick file job with some sandpaper to make it look and feel better.
> 
> I know what you mean. My ZS5 now sits lonely in the ZS6 box. I just pulled it out today to check its fit before responding to you...and back in the box it goes.



BTW, I took a closer look at the comparison photo, and I saw this subtle change that I missed before. It's exactly where your problem area was.

Here you can see on the ZS6 where KZ smoothed the ZS5's sharp angle in that area (indicated by the arrows in this photo - click for larger view):


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## oyobass

Slater said:


> BTW, I took a closer look at the comparison photo, and I saw this subtle change that I missed before. It's exactly where your problem area was.
> 
> So you can see on the ZS6 where KZ smoothed the ZS5's sharp angle in that area (indicated by the arrows in this photo - click for larger view):


Nice to see a company dedicated to continual improvement of its products that is also dedicated to providing a low-cost alternative to much more expensive items.

Now I'm waiting to see what the ZS7 will offer for improvement over the 6...


----------



## trumpethead

Got my ZS6 from GB in yesterday and upon first listen I thought Oh boy big mistake! Piercing Treble slicing up the eardrums really bad but could hear the potential. Put them on the burner overnight..Bam!! Treble is tamed crystal clear details and resolution. Just enough bass, smooth midrange, fairly well balanced. Really a pleasure now. Can't take them out of my ears. Didn't think the ZS5V1 could be bested at this price but here it is...using generic Alifoams, no other mods..gonna order another pair in Black when the price dips under 20 bucks!!


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## TheVortex

trumpethead said:


> Got my ZS6 from GB in yesterday and upon first listen I thought Oh boy big mistake! Piercing Treble slicing up the eardrums really bad but could hear the potential. Put them on the burner overnight..Bam!! Treble is tamed crystal clear details and resolution. Just enough bass, smooth midrange, fairly well balanced. Really a pleasure now. Can't take them out of my ears. Didn't think the ZS5V1 could be bested at this price but here it is...using generic Alifoams, no other mods..gonna order another pair in Black when the price dips under 20 bucks!!



Your in luck as they are now $19.99. Code is in the link.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/spe...-in-ear-hybrid-earphones-16-99.832367/page-39


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## oyobass

TheVortex said:


> Your in luck as they are now $19.99. Code is in the link.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/spe...-in-ear-hybrid-earphones-16-99.832367/page-39


Code is not currently working. I'm sure George will get it fixed soon...


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## trumpethead

TheVortex said:


> Your in luck as they are now $19.99. Code is in the link.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/spe...-in-ear-hybrid-earphones-16-99.832367/page-39



Yes I've been trying the code all day. Not working but I'm sure they will fix it soon.. Jus gotta keep an eye out...


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## Superluc

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbeC0QGFOdY/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio



> the wait for ZSR is still long ... 2 more weeks hopefully


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## JayceOoi

Too bad that discount code - gogirana8 for KZ ZS6 @ $19.99 can't be used for my country. Super great deal...
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


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## Slater (Nov 14, 2017)

OK, so I've spent some serious time working on ZS6 mods.

_Note that for all of these mods, you 1st use a sewing needle and gently pop off the stainless 'cheese grater' nozzle screen by poking the needle in 1 of the 'cheese grater' holes and lifting it right off. Carefully set them somewhere out of the way where you won't lose it. I recommend setting them on wax paper (sticky side down). It will keep the adhesive portion sticky, and won't let the adhesive get contaminated by dust or dirt while you are working. When you are done with your mods, just use tweeers to put the screen back in the center of the nozzle, and very gently push the screen down with your finger to make the adhesive stick._

Here's the mods I performed or attempted to perform:

*1. "Folding foam" in the nozzle method*

While this did cut the treble, I didn't really like how it affected the rest of the sound. *It veiled the mids and boosted bass too much. There are better mod options available (read on)*. It did knock down the treble around ~3dB**, which is why this is a valid modification option. The advantages are that this is a quick fix, super easy to perform, and 100% reversible. I didn't test the "foam stuffed in eartip" variation of this mod, but I suspect the results will be extremely similar.


*2. ZST foam mod to BOTH BA drivers in each shell (ie 2xBA). Let's call this mod "Double BA Foam Mod"*

This is the mod outlined here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650
I followed those instructions to a T, including the size of the foam piece. As an alternative, you could use the foam plug from the ZS3 nozzle (don't cut the foam; use exactly as removed from the ZS3). The result was about approximately ~4-5dB** cut in treble. I liked this mod much better than the "foam in nozzle" mod (ie #1), as the mids and bass were not affected, and all other characteristics of the ZS6 remained the same (soundstage, etc). However, the treble lost some airyness and sparkle quality. That tells me that there are other treble frequencies that the foam is affecting. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a bad mod. It's very easy to perform, and like the "foam in nozzle" mod it's 100% reversible. So I urge you to try this mod before you try the next mod (which is NOT reversible).

I also could have done additional testing with the SIZE of the foam (ie smaller foam), as well as the TYPE of foam (or even a piece of paper towel). I may still do so (just not today as I've been working on this for hours and need a break).


*3. Lazer Bond fill of ONE BA drivers in each shell (ie 1xBA). Let's call this mod "Single BA Fill Mod".*

What is Lazer Bond? It's one of those cheesy as seen on TV products, but this one actually works. I use the crap out of Lazer Bond, and hardly ever use super glue anymore. It dries in a few seconds using UV light, is perfectly clear, and it is somewhat removable if need be.

I especially use it for headphone mods. It's perfect for filling vent holes (partially or completely), and for gluing shells back together (use along the outside at the shell seam, such as after taking apart an IEM shell like the ZS3, ATE, etc). The result is you can't even see where it was glued if you do it right. It needs UV light to cure, so you couldn't use it inside of an opaque material and expect it to dry. But for transparent or translucent IEM shells, or bass vent holes, etc it's perfect. It's dirt cheap, lasts forever, doesn't dry out, and has a very precise "needle-like" applicator that allows the perfect amount to go where you want it to go.

See the applicator? This is what makes it so easy and effective for mods:




It also doesn't give off fumes or a 'craze' film (ie whitish film) like super glue, which is important because this film not only looks bad but craze vapors can deposit on speaker drivers and possibly cause unwanted/unpredictable effects.

Here's a photo of Lazer Bond (you can get it anywhere - drug stores, as seen on TV places, Amazon, ebay, etc).



I wanted to use this because the Lazer Bond applicator is exactly the size of the BA nozzle, so it is basically idiot proof. You barely need a drop - just enough to "fill" the nozzle on 1 of the BA drivers (doesn't matter which one). Just squeeze a drop in the BA nozzle to fill/seal it up, then use the UV light to dry it for 10 seconds. Done.

You could also use quick drying 2-part epoxy and a toothpick, or even something like Elmer's white "school glue" and a toothpick. You just need to fill 1 of the BA nozzles so it is totally sealed, but not so much that it drips out and makes a mess in the nozzle. Literally 1 drop is plenty.

Anyways, what about the sound? The result was about approximately ~4dB** cut in treble. I liked this mod much better, as the mids and bass were not affected, and all other characteristics of the ZS6 remained the same (soundstage, etc). The remaining treble had sparkle and airyness, just like in the totally stock ZS6, it's just that the total LEVEL (or amplitude) of treble was lowered some. However, this mod really made me appreciate how powerful even ONE of these high-frequency BA drivers KZ used are. If you were REALLY treble sensitive with the stock ZS6, this may still be too much for you. Even though it has a LESSER AMOUNT of treble, it's the TYPE of treble that is still there - still very bright, high frequency, and some could still call it sharp (not OVERLY sharp, as with the ZST, but definitely has an edge to it).

The only real disadvantage to this mod is that it is NOT reversible. If you are worried about the reversibility of this mod, stuff the nozzle with small blob of bluetac instead (which will accomplish the same thing, but WOULD be reversible).


*4. Removal of 1xBA in each shell*

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. I tried this multiple ways, and there just isn't enough room to work with. The BA drivers are located way down in the nozzle. They're stuck to one another pretty darn good. The ZS6 nozzle does not come apart as easily as the ZS5 nozzle (I think the nozzle is press-fit into the shell, not glued in like the ZS5). And if you try to remove the nozzle with force, or try ripping out a BA with pliers etc, you seriously risk really ruining your ZS6. Even if you can remove 1 of the BAs, you still have to deal with the wires. Don't waste your time with this mod. The "Single BA Fill" mod will accomplish the same thing, carries almost no risk, and won't affect the total impedance like removing a BA driver will.


*5. Lazer Bond fill of ONE BA driver in each shell (ie 1xBA) PLUS the ZST foam mod to ONE BA driver in each shell. Let's call this mod "Single BA Fill + Single BA Foam" Mod*

This is literally just a combination of #2 and #3 above. The only difference is that you follow #3 (the "Single BA Fill" mod). And if the treble is still "too much" for you to handle, you do the "BA Foam" mod from #2 to the ONE BA. It is still a very easy mod to perform.

As expected, this provided the most reduction in treble. I estimate ~8+dB cut in treble. The mids and bass were not affected, and all other characteristics of the ZS6 remained the same (soundstage, etc). The foam in the 1 BA does cause the treble to lose some airyness and sparkle quality (the foam must be affecting other treble frequencies).

*This is the best mod if you are looking for the maximum treble cut.*

If you do this mod and for some reason you don't like it, the *foam* can be removed, reverting this mod to #3 above (ie the "Single BA Fill" mod). Another option to get some sparkle back, is to leave the foam in place, and just use EQ to boost the treble range by a couple of dB.

I also could have done additional testing with the SIZE of the foam (ie smaller foam), as well as the TYPE of foam (or even a piece of paper towel). I may still do so (just not today as I've been working on this for hours and need a break).


******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

** Note about the treble cut figures - They were approximated by A/B comparing to an unmodified ZS6, which was then cut using Rockbox's EQ at 10k until the unmodified and modified ZS6 both sounded the same. So for example, if I had to cut the unmodified ZS6 by 5dB at 10k for it to sound the same as the modded ZS6 (with mod X applied), then mod X reduced treble by 5dB. Make sense? Obviously, this isn't scientific, and using the EQ allows the manipulation of very specific frequencies, whereas mods such as foam can affect a wider range of frequencies. Please keep that in mind if down the road someone with proper measuring equipment performs these same mods and publishes the results (in other words, all ears are different, YMMV, I'm only human, etc).


*Final Verdict of all of the mods:*

The bottom line is that tips are easy to play with. I would mod the ZS6 if you are really treble sensitive and unhappy with it's sound. If you LOVE the ZS6 as-is, consider leaving it alone and just play with tips. I would encourage you to burn-in for 10-20 hours and see if it helps. Also, try a few different sources to see if you notice any differences (laptop, phone, DAP, iPod, whatever). Maybe you'll be happier with 1 source vs another.

*The mod I settled on was #3. I think it's the best compromise between knocking the sharpness of the treble down a few notches, but still leaving intact the very personality that makes the ZS6 special. However, you could also forgo the #3 mod, and just use foam tips (wedge or ball) on the bone stock (unmodified) ZS6. It's kind of up to you.

Now, if you are one of the folks that is REALLY bothered by the ZS6, your best option IMO is #5 in combination with foam tips (wedge or ball).*

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Read on for more information about tips plus the modifications...

We know that tips can also be used to effectively tinker with the ZS6 sound. If you missed the *unmodified* ZS6 tip rolling post, its worth a read because I talk about how each tip affects the sound.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1669#post-13848607

WITH the mods, the sound is still affected basically the same way, there's just LESS treble to try and force the tips to "deal" with.

I went back and re-tested a few of my favorite tips *after modification of the ZS6 using #3 and the #5 method*. The #3 method gave me the sparkle and airyness I like with the ZS6, so I could use the tips to really fine tune the sound with the tips. With the #5 method, I used tips to try and get back some of the 'extra' lost treble.

So with that said, here is where I rate the 'best' tips in combination with the modifications:

*Modification using the #3 method only (ie "Single BA Fill" mod):*
*
Treble sensitive:*

"Ball" style foams - cuts the most treble cut. These are your the droids, er, I mean tips you're looking for. Overall smooth sound. Very "quiet" environment in your head, like you're in the recording room with the band (call it 'extreme isolation', which really allows you to concentrate on the music).

"Wedge" style foams (ie generic Complys) - "Goldilocks" tip, depending on ear fit/length _they may need to be cut down shorter for deepest insertion_. Sight cut in treble (a good thing if you're in this category). Overall really laid back smooth sound. Treble sounds REALLY good. Just right IMO. I REALLY like this combination.
*NOT Treble sensitive:*

"Wedge" style foams (ie generic Complys) - "Goldilocks" tip, depending on ear fit/length _they may need to be cut down shorter for deepest insertion_. Sight cut in treble (may or may not be your thing, but worth a try even if you don't mind the ZS6 treble). Overall really laid back smooth sound. Treble sounds REALLY good. Just right IMO. I REALLY like this combination.
Dual-Flange Silicones - Adds a tad bit of soundstage, more sub bass. No change in treble/brightness.

KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds - Adds bigger soundstage, bumps midrange, a tad brighter but adds a hint of graininess to the sound.

*Modification using the #5 method only (ie "Single BA Fill + Single BA Foam" mod):
*
*Treble sensitive:*

"Wedge" style foams (ie generic Complys) - "Goldilocks" tip, depending on ear fit/length _they may need to be cut down shorter for deepest insertion_. Sight cut in treble (a good thing if you're in this category). Overall really laid back smooth sound. Treble sounds REALLY good. Just right IMO.
"Ball" style foams - cuts the most treble (too much when used with the "Single BA Fill + Single BA Foam" modification combination IMO). *If you need this much treble cut you may want to consider finding another IEM; seriously.* Overall smooth sound. Very "quiet" noise floor, like you're in the recording room with the band (call it 'extreme isolation', which really allows you to concentrate on the music).
*NOT Treble sensitive:*

KZ Turbo/Whirlwinds - Bigger soundstage, bumps midrange, a tad brighter but adds a hint of graininess to the sound. The only valid way to "add" some treble back with using this modification method (ie "Single BA Fill + Single Foam method). *A better option is really to consider the "Single BA Fill" mod instead;  trust me.*
Dual-Flange Silicones - Adds a tad bit of soundstage, more sub bass. No change in treble/brightness.
"Wedge" style foams (ie generic Complys) - "Goldilocks" tip, depending on ear fit/length _they may need to be cut down shorter for deepest insertion_. Sight cut in treble (may not be your thing since the mods already cut a lot of treble). But still worth a try even if you don't mind the ZS6 treble, because the overall sound is really laid back and smooth sound. A really good tip option.


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## Sebilion

I just want to share my experience with the ostry os300. I bought it for my kz zs6 to calm the treble a bit. I think it changes the sound signature a lot. It adds bass and takes a lot of the treble out. I think I should have gotten thw os200 instead because these are too harsh even for me. I would recommend the ostry but better try the os200 and not the os300. Hope this helps anyone who is thinking about getting the ostry tips for kz zs6.


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## Slater

Sebilion said:


> I just want to share my experience with the ostry os300. I bought it for my kz zs6 to calm the treble a bit. I think it changes the sound signature a lot. It adds bass and takes a lot of the treble out. I think I should have gotten thw os200 instead because these are too harsh even for me. I would recommend the ostry but better try the os200 and not the os300. Hope this helps anyone who is thinking about getting the ostry tips for kz zs6.



Thanks a lot for trying these tips. The community appreciates it!

How do they fit ZS6 nozzle in general? Do they sometimes come off in your ears when you remove the ZS6? Some tips can do this if they don't fit super tight on the ZS6 nozzle.


----------



## Superluc

Slater said:


> Also, try another source, because the output impedance of your source will affect the level of treble you hear. If you listened on your phone or laptop and hated it for example, then did mods, then later used a DAP as a source you may be unhappy with the results (*too little treble*).


Well...on the ZS5, but the ZS6 are affected by impedance output in reverse, as said by @hakuzen. If the DAP is good, with low impedance than the phone or laptop used, it may happen the contrary, as the treble may be more present on the DAP because of that. 
The all impedance talking was because an adapter can theoretically lower the highs of them without touching mids and bass, but no one have still try to determine around how much ohm could be the best option. Anyway, even with that and mods the real problem is the usual one: different sensitivity on those peaks, source and comfort with tips between all of us. 
I hope to try soon the 75 ohm adapter myself and add a little contribution, but i'm now incline to think that lowering EQ may still be the more personal and not risky option, without take away nothing after those peaks. Not every source have that and with a lot o bars, unfortunately, but every source sound different... damn you, audio's god ( could it be _Orpheus _? ) 

Anyway, even if I'm now not inclined to try those mods, thanks a lot


----------



## Slater (Nov 14, 2017)

Superluc said:


> Well...on the ZS5, but the ZS6 are affected by impedance output in reverse, as said by @hakuzen. If the DAP is good, with low impedance than the phone or laptop used, it may happen the contrary, as the treble may be more present on the DAP because of that.
> The all impedance talking was because an adapter can theoretically lower the highs of them without touching mids and bass, but no one have still try to determine around how much ohm could be the best option. Anyway, even with that and mods the real problem is the usual one: different sensitivity on those peaks, source and comfort with tips between all of us.
> I hope to try soon the 75 ohm adapter myself and add a little contribution, but i'm now incline to think that lowering EQ may still be the more personal and not risky option, without take away nothing after those peaks. Not every source have that and with a lot o bars, unfortunately, but every source sound different... damn you, audio's god ( could it be _Orpheus _? )
> 
> Anyway, even if I'm now not inclined to try those mods, thanks a lot



I see, that makes sense.

I'm just happy that I found a way to easily "remove" one of the BA drivers (by filling with glue), without risking damage to the IEM. This has kind of been reported as the holy grail of ZS6 mods to correct all of the treble issues by the few that have done it.

Now there are numerous options for addressing any complaints with the ZS5 v2 and ZS6 and getting the most enjoyment out of them - tip rolling options, different BA driver mods, foam mods, impedance adapters, EQ, etc.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 15, 2017)

well...here it is people, we all wondered, how could @Slater be SO HELPFUL...what's his real game?
He's selling lazer glue! Or maybe it's glue lazers?! I knew it was all a scam! Or possibly scamola!


----------



## young59

Hey @Slater could you tell me if this would work as a mod.

So we block/remove the two BA and convert one of the DD into a full range driver by removing its resistor which I assume is used to create the crossover.


----------



## Sebilion

Slater said:


> Thanks a lot for trying these tips. The community appreciates it!
> 
> How do they fit ZS6 nozzle in general? Do they sometimes come off in your ears when you remove the ZS6? Some tips can do this if they don't fit super tight on the ZS6 nozzle.


No, actually they are a perfect fit, just if they were made for the zs6!


----------



## Sebilion

I also tried 2 different types of foam tips, but they were not as secure and didn't like them at all. They've didn't stay put long enough for me to put them in my ears like a earplug would. And they would get so dirty so quickly! Also, both of the pairs I tried were slightly too big for the zs6 and I didn't feel security while using them, the noise isolation was good but I was always afraid that they may come off and get stuck in my ears lol! So, I wouldn't recommend any foam tips, except of course if there are any expensive good ones that I haven't heard of yet.


----------



## Trisse (Nov 15, 2017)

Could I damage my KZ ZS6 while using them with my asus Xonar STX on the 300 ohm setting?

Edit: Except for the oblivious of having to high volym


----------



## Slater (Nov 15, 2017)

young59 said:


> Hey @Slater could you tell me if this would work as a mod.
> 
> So we block/remove the two BA and convert one of the DD into a full range driver by removing its resistor which I assume is used to create the crossover.



No clue buddy.

Why not just buy a dual DD IEM like the ZSE? It’s basically the same thing you’re describing and a whole lot cheaper (might even use the same 2 DD drivers). Also the ZS1, ZS2, and ZN1.


----------



## ivo001

Gearbest has a KZ bluetooth upgrade cable on sale for $4,99 with code KZEP.
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-hea...utm_medium=shareasale&utm_campaign=shareasale

But i'm kinda confused as if this one is suitable for the ZS5. It is listed on the 2nd picture, but denied in the FAQ multiple times. In the reviews I found on Page 8 somebody which says it works with ZS5, and on page 9 somebody says it sometimes unplugs with ZS5? Doesnt help that there is another variant available on the site which does not work with the code.


----------



## bsoplinger

ivo001 said:


> Gearbest has a KZ bluetooth upgrade cable on sale for $4,99 with code KZEP.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-hea...utm_medium=shareasale&utm_campaign=shareasale
> 
> But i'm kinda confused as if this one is suitable for the ZS5.…


Here's the one explicitly made for the ZS6 (and others) 

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712240.html

If you've not noticed that @Slater posts have a signature with a link and comment about making sure KZ cables fit. That's most likely why people had problems with the wire coming out.

If you stare at the 2 different styles of Bluetooth cables you'll see that the difference is the ends that plug into the earphone. The one you linked is curved and the one I linked is straight. However I'm sure I've seen at least one person post in this thread post that they were able to use a curved end cable (don't remember if it was a regular or Bluetooth one but it wouldn't matter) just fine with a ZS5. Perhaps if you look for that post you can decide if you want to try.

Lastly, the cable I linked to is on a general sale for $6.99 so it isn't very expensive now either. But I don't think people are too pleased with the Bluetooth cable from KZ regardless of end style so perhaps getting a more generic receiver might be a better option. Here's a link to what I mean. Don't own this, never heard it, know nothing about it. Just provided as an example

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_1081306.html


----------



## tworule

ivo001 said:


> Gearbest has a KZ bluetooth upgrade cable on sale for $4,99 with code KZEP.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-hea...utm_medium=shareasale&utm_campaign=shareasale
> 
> But i'm kinda confused as if this one is suitable for the ZS5. It is listed on the 2nd picture, but denied in the FAQ multiple times. In the reviews I found on Page 8 somebody which says it works with ZS5, and on page 9 somebody says it sometimes unplugs with ZS5? Doesnt help that there is another variant available on the site which does not work with the code.


I have both cables. the angled one fits zs6 -zs5 but it is not very secure. check images.they are a little bit blurry but I would not use this cable.


----------



## ivo001

Thanks @bsoplinger and @tworule


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## Slater

ivo001 said:


> Gearbest has a KZ bluetooth upgrade cable on sale for $4,99 with code KZEP.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-hea...utm_medium=shareasale&utm_campaign=shareasale
> 
> But i'm kinda confused as if this one is suitable for the ZS5. It is listed on the 2nd picture, but denied in the FAQ multiple times. In the reviews I found on Page 8 somebody which says it works with ZS5, and on page 9 somebody says it sometimes unplugs with ZS5? Doesnt help that there is another variant available on the site which does not work with the code.





bsoplinger said:


> ...But I don't think people are too pleased with the Bluetooth cable from KZ regardless of end style so perhaps getting a more generic receiver might be a better option. Here's a link to what I mean. Don't own this, never heard it, know nothing about it. Just provided as an example
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_1081306.html



This one works really well: https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html


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## ivo001

Slater said:


> This one works really well: https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html


So you plug your 3.5mm jack into that? And then you have bluetooth connectivity with a 1.2m lenght cord? Does not sound practical ha. The bluetooth cable specifically designed for the KZ ZS5 seemed like it would be a nice utility for using the IEM in the gym or something, or am I better off just sticking to my Meizu EP-51 for that? Because that thing is designed to be at least sweat proof I thought.


----------



## Superluc

Trisse said:


> Could I damage my KZ ZS6 while using them with my asus Xonar STX on the 300 ohm setting?
> 
> Edit: Except for the oblivious of having to high volym


http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/asus-stx.php

Yes, you may risk to damage them. The power output on a 16 ohm load is too much.


----------



## CoiL

trumpethead said:


> Got my ZS6 from GB in yesterday and upon first listen I thought Oh boy big mistake! Piercing Treble slicing up the eardrums really bad but could hear the potential. Put them on the burner overnight..Bam!! Treble is tamed crystal clear details and resolution. Just enough bass, smooth midrange, fairly well balanced. Really a pleasure now. Can't take them out of my ears. Didn't think the ZS5V1 could be bested at this price but here it is...using generic Alifoams, no other mods..gonna order another pair in Black when the price dips under 20 bucks!!


Good for You... BUT... what about ppl who do not use faoms at all and have low impedance source gear? ZS5 will probably fit them better


----------



## tworule

ivo001 said:


> So you plug your 3.5mm jack into that? And then you have bluetooth connectivity with a 1.2m lenght cord? Does not sound practical ha. The bluetooth cable specifically designed for the KZ ZS5 seemed like it would be a nice utility for using the IEM in the gym or something, or am I better off just sticking to my Meizu EP-51 for that? Because that thing is designed to be at least sweat proof I thought.


I use es3 with kz Bluetooth cable in gym. I am happy with that setup.


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## Ynot1 (Nov 15, 2017)

Slater said:


> This one works really well: https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html


I wonder if this support trrs balance or trrs mic, since it already has a mic.
Assuming headphone was balance. Prolly not. But should make one.
Simple circuit can detect trs plug and then do single ended,
otherwise if trrs do balance. I thought Xiaomi liked doing this type of stuff.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

Ynot1 said:


> I wonder if this support trrs balance or trrs mic, since it already has a mic.
> Assuming headphone was balance. Prolly not. But should make one.
> Simple circuit can detect trs plug and then do single ended,
> otherwise if trrs do balance. I thought Xiaomi liked doing this type of stuff.



Is there a discount coupon for this product?


----------



## stryed

Slater said:


> Did it help, or do you still have comfort issues?
> 
> Because for my ears, this spot on the ZS5 is the source of my comfort issues. You can see how sharp it is on the ZS5, and how it was made much smoother on the ZS6 (where the arrows are pointing).
> 
> ...



Your ears might get used to the shape. It bothered me so much I took a break from the ZS5s for a few days to listen toan older IEM. Now, after 3 weeks of daily use, I find the KZ5 pretty comfy.


----------



## MynnyD

Thanks a lot @Slater for your mod suggestions! #3 (blocking one of BAs with blu tack) is just perfect! Wow. Can´t stop listening to ZS6 now. Still trebble heavy, but in a good way


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## Slater (Nov 15, 2017)

ivo001 said:


> So you plug your 3.5mm jack into that? And then you have bluetooth connectivity with a 1.2m lenght cord? Does not sound practical ha. The bluetooth cable specifically designed for the KZ ZS5 seemed like it would be a nice utility for using the IEM in the gym or something, or am I better off just sticking to my Meizu EP-51 for that? Because that thing is designed to be at least sweat proof I thought.



Yes, the whole long cable with a box at the end is what you end up with haha

Personally, I’d stick with the EP51 if you already own one.

I do have 2 KZ Bluetooth cables though. I use 1 with ZST almost daily for bicycle rides. They have a 4 hour battery life, and in general are a decent product. I did have major EMI/RF interference issues though (a known problem, but the problem doesn’t seem to affect everyone for some reason).

I took the “control box” apart and discovered that the Bluetooth antenna wasn’t properly designed by the engineers. After lengthening the antenna to the optimal Bluetooth length, it works great now. Double the range and zero interference issues. The modded cable is also an excellent match with the ZST. I didn’t like it with the ZS3 or the ZS5 though - it just didn’t sound right (I always assumed it was an impedance thing). It may sound fine to others with the ZS3 or ZS5 though, but I’m perfectly happy with the modded cable and ZST combination for bike rides.

I don’t have the link to the Mod How2 handy, but if you’re interested in the mod, I can post it as soon as I get home in a few hours.

All you need is a soldering iron, a tiny piece of copper wire, and a way to accurately measure the wire in millimeters (calipers, quality metal ruler, micrometer, etc).


----------



## Slater

Ynot1 said:


> I wonder if this support trrs balance or trrs mic, since it already has a mic.
> Assuming headphone was balance. Prolly not. But should make one.
> Simple circuit can detect trs plug and then do single ended,
> otherwise if trrs do balance. I thought Xiaomi liked doing this type of stuff.



Hmmm, not sure. But that would be interesting to know!


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## Slater (Nov 15, 2017)

HUGO SILVA said:


> Is there a discount coupon for this product?



I haven’t seen one yet, but it is on flash sale on a regular basis.

If we ask George to create a code on the Gearbest deals thread, I’m sure he’ll make us a coupon for it.

_Edit: I asked George for a coupon code for the Xiaomi adapter. I’ll PM you if/when I see the code posted to the Gearbest thread?_

I just picked up a ZS3 for $2.99 with coupon code for modding (gonna either make it a hybrid or swap in a graphene driver if I can shoehorn it in). For $2.99 it is a great donor shell!

There’s also ATE for $3.99 with coupon. Since I just destroyed a pair in a failed ED9 nozzle Frankenstein attempt, I’m gonna try the mod again with a fresh pair (like the ‘little engine that could’ haha).

Gotta love Gearbest!


----------



## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> Good for You... BUT... what about ppl who do not use faoms at all and have low impedance source gear? ZS5 will probably fit them better


i wasn't using foams before, didn't like them, but am getting used to them now with zs6 (together with an easy eq on 11kHz).
a so easy EQ is enough to tame the highs when using silicone tips.
i much prefer zs6 rather than zs5v1. find them more suitable to almost every track i listen to. zs5v1 is good, but found issues with more tracks, dunno why, maybe the absence of crossover and extreme low impedance have something to do with that.
however, guess if you refuse to use foams and can't/don't-want to do a simple eq, better to look for other phones than zs6.


----------



## Holypal

hakuzen said:


> i wasn't using foams before, didn't like them, but am getting used to them now with zs6 (together with an easy eq on 11kHz).
> a so easy EQ is enough to tame the highs when using silicone tips.
> i much prefer zs6 rather than zs5v1. find them more suitable to almost every track i listen to. zs5v1 is good, but found issues with more tracks, dunno why, maybe the absence of crossover and extreme low impedance have something to do with that.
> however, guess if you refuse to use foams and can't/don't-want to do a simple eq, better to look for other phones than zs6.



Probably the distortion of zs5v1...


----------



## xrk971 (Nov 15, 2017)

My order of my third ZS5's just came.  This one from GearBest and... surprise it came in a white paper box. Different than the black box with clear lid that the first two came in.  A quick inspection of the nozzle reveals dual balanced armatures aimed right into the ear canal. So now I will be able to compare the two. What's interesting is that the box says that the impedance is 14ohms.  Not 8 as reported by someone else.  I will listen and report back. Or was 8ohms the "no crossover" impedance of V1's?


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## vector84 (Nov 15, 2017)

Trisse said:


> Could I damage my KZ ZS6 while using them with my asus Xonar STX on the 300 ohm setting?
> 
> *Edit: Except for the oblivious of having to high volym*





Superluc said:


> http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/asus-stx.php
> 
> Yes, you may risk to damage them. The power output on a 16 ohm load is too much.


Power = voltage * current, current = voltage / resistance, so if not current limited, power = voltage^2 / resistance.

IE barring current limitations, power is volume.... there is no *added* risk besides the volume level itself.

300 ohm mode is the middle gain value on that card (+12dB)?  As per the data that Superluc linked, low gain should have enough power to drive them to sufficient volume, so unless you're trying to listen to extremely high DR live recordings at full concert volumes, I'm not sure what you'd stand to gain besides added noise and distortion from turning up the gain...

But can it do damage *besides* too much volume?  I don't see how it would... though too much volume itself is obviously a very real risk.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 15, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> My order of my third ZS5's just came.  This one from GearBest and... surprise it came in a white paper box. Different than the black box with clear lid that the first two came in.  A quick inspection of the nozzle reveals dual balanced armatures aimed right into the ear canal. So now I will be able to compare the two. What's interesting is that the box says that the impedance is 14ohms.  Not 8 as reported by someone else.  I will listen and report back.


ZS5v2 should indeed be around 14 ohms nominal as it includes a similar (probably the same?) crossover as the ZS6.
(ZS5v1 is around 4 ohms, you might be thinking of ES3/ZSE @ 8 ohms)

At least they're getting closer to reality with their specs


----------



## Aevum

thats curious, 

On my Sony NW-A35 the Kz5 V1 sounds good at around 65/120 while the KZ6 was at 55/120, meaning lower impedanc.e


----------



## vector84 (Nov 15, 2017)

Aevum said:


> thats curious,
> 
> On my Sony NW-A35 the Kz5 V1 sounds good at around 65/120 while the KZ6 was at 55/120, meaning lower impedanc.e


You are confusing impedance with sensitivity.  Impedance and sensitivity tend to correlate because of the way sensitivity is typically specified (dB/mW), but they are not directly related quantities.

Impedance is just an electrical property (the AC equivalent of resistance).  The only reason it comes to play in sensitivity is because we typically specify sensitivity in dB/mW, but output sources typically attempt to reach a given voltage at a specific output setting, so the amount of power they supply will then depend on the impedance they are driving (Ohm's law).  This then is where the confusion comes into play - lower impedance means "easier to drive" as in requiring less power to reach a given voltage (but more current), this is *not* a measure of sensitivity however, this is purely an electrical property.  Then given a certain power value, sensitivity is the measure of how much sound pressure (dB SPL) is produced.  Sensitivity can also be specified in dB/V to avoid this confusion, but those are less common than dB/mW measurements because they are typically lower numbers (and bigger = better, right?!) 

And yes, the ZS6 has a higher sensitivity than the ZS5v1, you can search this thread for posts by @hakuzen with the relevant data.


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 16, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> Impedance (and phase) curves of ZS5 v1 and ZS6.
> 
> Note that ZS5 v1 impedance at 1kHz is *4.8Ω*! (ZS6 is ~14.5Ω).
> 
> ...





xrk971 said:


> My order of my third ZS5's just came.  This one from GearBest and... surprise it came in a white paper box. Different than the black box with clear lid that the first two came in.  A quick inspection of the nozzle reveals dual balanced armatures aimed right into the ear canal. So now I will be able to compare the two. What's interesting is that the box says that the impedance is 14ohms.  Not 8 as reported by someone else.  I will listen and report back. Or was 8ohms the "no crossover" impedance of V1's?





vector84 said:


> ZS5v2 should indeed be around 14 ohms nominal as it includes a similar (probably the same?) crossover as the ZS6.
> (ZS5v1 is around 4 ohms, you might be thinking of ES3/ZSE @ 8 ohms)
> 
> At least they're getting closer to reality with their specs


@xrk971 : you asked me how i measured impedance & phase curve time ago, and answered you. repeated same measurements twice more times: you can trust them, or measure them by your own.
like @vector84 says, ZS5v1 is 4.8ohms at 1kHz, and about 4.5ohms at 60Hz. ZS6 is ~14.5ohms at 1kHz. error is less than 0.2ohms, aprox.
i'll measure impedance of ES3 and ZSE (and ZST, ZS3, ATE, ATR, ED9...) and shall post their curves.
added again the curves here, to save you searching in the thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060

Edit: ZS5v2 are near to arrive here. shall measure them, but expect a very similar curve (if not identical) than ZS6, like @vector84 says. kz fooled us with ZS5v1 specs and overall info. nice to see v2 is fixing that.


----------



## jpgr

My Zs6 arrived yesterday and are currently in the process of being burnt in. I listened for an hour, with the large silicon tips, and didn't notice any treble spike. The supplied headphone lead is springy, tacky to touch and just weird.
Upgrade cable on order but they don't sound bad for a budget pair of iems.


----------



## JayceOoi

Yeah... KZ ZS6 @ $24.99 is back again with this code - KZZS611
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## ivo001

Looks like the cable with the nice plugs for KZ is avaiable now  And just $7.31! 
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...604.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.4d2dfae6tWuE1c





Bit dissapointed I could not find that during the 11.11 sales when i bought another cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32831364422.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CNr6wR)


----------



## Holypal

ivo001 said:


> Looks like the cable with the nice plugs for KZ is avaiable now  And just $7.31!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...604.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.4d2dfae6tWuE1c
> 
> 
> Bit dissapointed I could not find that during the 11.11 sales when i bought another cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32831364422.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CNr6wR)



Don't be disappointed. I actually prefer the one you bought than the first one.


----------



## trumpethead

CoiL said:


> Good for You... BUT... what about ppl who do not use faoms at all and have low impedance source gear? ZS5 will probably fit them better



Very true, it is a Beautiful thing to have these options so we can personalize our preferences and get the best out of our purchases. I have both and love then both bit differently... I guess it's sorta like having kids...lol


----------



## ivo001

Holypal said:


> Don't be disappointed. I actually prefer the one you bought than the first one.


Why is that? Do the metal plugs make them too heavy? Quality looks very nice.


----------



## kiler

ivo001 said:


> Why is that? Do the metal plugs make them too heavy? Quality looks very nice.


Decisions have to be made now... I need a new cable for my ZS5 but don't know which one of the two silver cables to pick


----------



## Slater (Nov 16, 2017)

kiler said:


> Decisions have to be made now... I need a new cable for my ZS5 but don't know which one of the two silver cables to pick



Get the 6-wire braided one chief. I have all of the different KZ cables. There is no question.

Even my 13 year old daughter said the other night “cool wire dad, where did you get that?” Do you have any idea what it takes to impress a teenager in this day and age haha?

Just plan on trimming the end off with a razor blade or xacto. It takes 2 seconds. Be sure to mark the orientation of the cable beforehand, so you don’t mix up which direction is which and end up plugging them in out-of-phase. I use a sewing needle and scratch a small “U” on the metal for the side of the pins that has the rounded “U” part. Because once you trim off the plastic, you can no longer tell which is which.

If you have no clue what I’m talking about, check the link in my signature and it will become clear.


----------



## ivo001

kiler said:


> Decisions have to be made now... I need a new cable for my ZS5 but don't know which one of the two silver cables to pick


Good luck.


----------



## kiler

Will do man, you mean the thicker one that was posted right Slater?


----------



## Podster

ivo001 said:


> Looks like the cable with the nice plugs for KZ is avaiable now  And just $7.31!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...604.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.4d2dfae6tWuE1c
> 
> 
> Bit dissapointed I could not find that during the 11.11 sales when i bought another cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32831364422.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CNr6wR)



I bought 3 of these from NiceHCK (Two ZS5's and Rad ZS6's) but what scares me is his ad says .78 and I could have sworn these were .75 for these iem's? Did I mention this thread moves faster than a bullet train!!!!


----------



## Slater

kiler said:


> Will do man, you mean the thicker one that was posted right Slater?



Correct


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I bought 3 of these from NiceHCK (Two ZS5's and Rad ZS6's) but what scares me is his ad says .78 and I could have sworn these were .75 for these iem's? Did I mention this thread moves faster than a bullet train!!!!



Just ignore that. I got one and it’s 0.75mm. Fits just fine.

That seller also said the cable is balanced lol


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Just ignore that. I got one and it’s 0.75mm. Fits just fine.
> 
> That seller also said the cable is balanced lol



LOL, I'm taking it there was no 2.5 at the DAP end Even with the ZST model shallow in my ZS5/6's this is the best sounding cable I've had on these models


----------



## Holypal

Slater said:


> Get the 6-wire braided one chief. I have all of the different KZ cables. There is no question.
> 
> Even my 13 year old daughter said the other night “cool wire dad, where did you get that?” Do you have any idea what it takes to impress a teenager in this day and age haha?
> 
> ...



The same reason I don't like it. It draw too much attention on the road.


----------



## desai_amogh

Is there a decent Bluetooth cable for the KZ ATE (mmcx) other than the KZ bluetooth cable ??  May be with better battery backup (and aptx, etc) ??


----------



## Podster (Nov 16, 2017)

desai_amogh said:


> Is there a decent Bluetooth cable for the KZ ATE (mmcx) other than the KZ bluetooth cable ??  May be with better battery backup (and aptx, etc) ??



You have an ATE with MMCX cable?

@Slater , not sure if I mentioned it but my 14 year old son really digs his new triple braid cable on his (don't tell him I said this, less than stellar ED12's) but he loves them and I just don't have the heart to tell him they are one of my worst KZ's eva


----------



## B9Scrambler

Spent a bit of time with the ZS6 last night. Bought one today. Treble cannon my buttocks...


----------



## HungryPanda

B9Scrambler said:


> Spent a bit of time with the ZS6 last night. Bought one today. Treble cannon my buttocks...



Your buttocks are quite right


----------



## desai_amogh

desai_amogh said:


> Is there a decent Bluetooth cable for the KZ ATE (mmcx) other than the KZ bluetooth cable ?? May be with better battery backup (and aptx, etc) ??





Podster said:


> You have an ATE with MMCX cable?



I have just ordered the KZ ATE. I am not really sure what connectors they are, but it looks like they are not the two pin ones, so I assumed they are mmcx as I dint see any other option.

Could you advise what connectors they are?? and what bluetooth cable options I have ???


----------



## HungryPanda

The KZ ATE do not have removable cables


----------



## desai_amogh

oh eff. I saw an offer. anyways it was 4$ so i should be fine


----------



## Strat Rider

B9Scrambler said:


> Spent a bit of time with the ZS6 last night. Bought one today. Treble cannon my buttocks...


I ordered a ZS6 yesterday, but the coupon code had been used up. 

I only hope the nozzles hold tips better than my zs5. Seems if tips aren't stuck in my ears, they are flying across the room. Even after cleaning tips and nozzels with alcohol, tips seem to still be loose.


----------



## HungryPanda

My tips have never accidentally came off my ZS6


----------



## Wiljen

desai_amogh said:


> I have just ordered the KZ ATE. I am not really sure what connectors they are, but it looks like they are not the two pin ones, so I assumed they are mmcx as I dint see any other option.
> 
> Could you advise what connectors they are?? and what bluetooth cable options I have ???



The ATE cable is non-removable, it looks like it should be but no pair I have had was.


----------



## Podster

desai_amogh said:


> oh eff. I saw an offer. anyways it was 4$ so i should be fine



I'd say for $4 you are OK, most of the oldskool KZ's had non-removable cables but ask next time before you pull that trigger


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Spent a bit of time with the ZS6 last night. Bought one today. Treble cannon my buttocks...



Sure want to know your take @B9Scrambler , Pods honest opinion is best KZ to date Got the Red pair for $24 to go with my black ones. I personally think they give a lot of <$100 iem's a serious run for the money! Enjoy buddy


----------



## Strat Rider

HungryPanda said:


> My tips have never accidentally came off my ZS6


Thanks H.P> good to know!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> Sure want to know your take @B9Scrambler , Pods honest opinion is best KZ to date Got the Red pair for $24 to go with my black ones. I personally think they give a lot of <$100 iem's a serious run for the money! Enjoy buddy



Thanks Pod! I only flipped through a few specific sections on some of my test songs so I'm not going to say anything definitive about them right now. It was enough to get me on board though. Felt like a notable step up from the ZS5 v1 which I think competes just fine with ~100 USD stuff. Also listened to the Auglamor RT-1 (way too mid-bassy for me), Audiofly Clublife Adagio CL7 (not the bass cannon I was expecting...really quite nice), and a budget dual driver (forget the brand, but it was decent for 10 bucks) the same night. ZS6 was easily my favorite of the bunch, hence being the only one I bought.


----------



## Podster (Nov 16, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks Pod! I only flipped through a few specific sections on some of my test songs so I'm not going to say anything definitive about them right now. It was enough to get me on board though. Felt like a notable step up from the ZS5 v1 which I think competes just fine with ~100 USD stuff. Also listened to the Auglamor RT-1 (way too mid-bassy for me), Audiofly Clublife Adagio CL7 (not the bass cannon I was expecting...really quite nice), and a budget dual driver (forget the brand, but it was decent for 10 bucks) the same night. ZS6 was easily my favorite of the bunch, hence being the only one I bought.



Sure many in this thread don't feel the same (nothing personal to you guys especially you DIY'ers) but from my early days with all the ED models the Z models are a giant step for KZ and for sure the ZS lineup. IMHO the ZS6 is even a leap from the other ZS models but as I always say we for sure hear them differently as well as having preferred signatures. Moving into the Aluminum shell has really moved KZ into the next echelon, just the Pods thoughts so take them with a grain of salt






Total Package


----------



## oyobass

Podster said:


> Sure many in this thread don't feel the same (nothing personal to you guys especially you DIY'ers) but from my early days with all the ED models the Z models are a giant step for KZ and for sure the ZS lineup. IMHO the ZS6 is even a leap from the other ZS models but as I always say we for sure hear them differently as well as having preferred signatures. Moving into the Aluminum shell has really moved KZ into the next echelon, just the Pods thoughts so take them with a grain of salt
> 
> 
> 
> Total Package


Black and gold makes for a very classy looking IEM. Nicely thought out combo.


----------



## Podster

oyobass said:


> Black and gold makes for a very classy looking IEM. Nicely thought out combo.



THX @oyobass , think this cable was in the second run of KZ upgrade cable for it but if I'm wrong I'll be called out Just waiting on the silver tri-braid to get here, ZS6 really looks sweet with that one and even more substantial with it's size (bonus is how good that cable sounds)


----------



## stryed

Any new thoughts on the ZS6 vs ZS5 v2? The metal body is sexy, but according to some soundstage is diminished on the zs6 ?


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> LOL, I'm taking it there was no 2.5 at the DAP end Even with the ZST model shallow in my ZS5/6's this is the best sounding cable I've had on these models



If you trim off the translucent white plastic plastic with an xacto knife, it plugs securely into the ZS5/6 and looks flush.

You just have to mark the 2-pin metal ends so you remember the proper orientation. I scratch a "U" in the side where the rounded end of the 2-pin connector was located (using a sewing needle). That way, I know the proper orientation.


----------



## Skyyyeman

Podster said:


> THX @oyobass , think this cable was in the second run of KZ upgrade cable for it but if I'm wrong I'll be called out Just waiting on the silver tri-braid to get here, ZS6 really looks sweet with that one and even more substantial with it's size (bonus is how good that cable sounds)



Silver tri-braid cable?

Pardon my ignorance but it would be a great help if someone could enlighten on the best cables for the ZS5 and ZS6.  It's pretty confusing if you haven't read all the posts in this long thread.

FWIW, I've got the ZS5 and am using the KZ $7-10 silver plated upgrade cable. It seems pretty good. But I've got the ZS6 on order but want to get the best cable. So are there two silver upgrade cables?  And which one is the gold upgrade? I see one that seems to be the silver with a gold color. And now the silver tri-braid cable??

Thanks so much.


----------



## bsoplinger

desai_amogh said:


> I have just ordered the KZ ATE. I am not really sure what connectors they are, but it looks like they are not the two pin ones, so I assumed they are mmcx as I dint see any other option.
> 
> Could you advise what connectors they are?? and what bluetooth cable options I have ???





Wiljen said:


> The ATE cable is non-removable, it looks like it should be but no pair I have had was.



I purchased this cable, not for a KZ brand IEM but something else, and it isn't the first time I've seen this style (like the braided KZ cable we've been talking about but with MMCX connectors) with KZ as part of the description. Some were those crazy stupid $100+ cables. So perhaps there's some other reason that some of these Chinese vendors use KZ in the description? 

Here's the cable I purchased:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...-Shure-SE535-SE846-UE900-DZ7/32819357709.html


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> I purchased this cable, not for a KZ brand IEM but something else, and it isn't the first time I've seen this style (like the braided KZ cable we've been talking about but with MMCX connectors) with KZ as part of the description. Some were those crazy stupid $100+ cables. So perhaps there's some other reason that some of these Chinese vendors use KZ in the description?
> 
> Here's the cable I purchased:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...-Shure-SE535-SE846-UE900-DZ7/32819357709.html



Maybe KZ is making those MMCX cables? The cable and the 3.5mm end looks the same as the 6-braided cable.

They certainly seemed to have ramped up production of cables, and we know they already ODM IEMs for other companies (so why not cables too)?

It could also be a possibility that they are going to be coming out with a MMCX IEM at some point.


----------



## Slater (Nov 16, 2017)

So I've had a need for a small earphone for sleeping, and one of the smallest IEMs I already own is the KZ HDS2.

They aren't in my listening rotation that often, because I've never really liked how they sounded. They were just too neutral and lacked bass, which just made them boring and narrow sounding. The nozzles are odd-sized and shaped, and not many tips fit other than the stock tips (goofy dual flange tips that are uncomfortable and don't seal well at all). I always felt like the tips had to be the cause of the gutless bass.

Well, I decided to play around with them and see if there were any improvements lurking inside.

The 1st thing I did was swap the rubbish stock tips for some other options. Foams sounded worse, robbing them of even more bass. The story was the same with wide bore tips (shouty trebe and no bass at all). Then I struck pay dirt. Using a small screwdriver, I was able to gently stretch some KZ Starlines on the massive tip. WOW, what a difference! These things were completely transformed. There's now gobs of bass/sub-bass (when called upon - not overpowering). And thanks to the Starline tips, they're very comfy and stay in the ears with kung-fu grip. With the Starline tips, they sound like the u-shaped HDS3 (an excellent IEM).

Realize that the HDS2 are a TINY IEM. However, for sleeping they just barely stuck out of my ears just enough to rub when side sleeping. The trusty Dremel to the rescue - 5 minutes later and I had the rear section of the housing buzzed off. This made them short enough to completely disappear deep inside of the ear. They're sooo comfy when sleeping now.

After cutting the end off, the rear of the housing becomes "open" (exposing a small 1/8" hole in the rear of the housing). I used them like this for a few days, and I loved the much wider soundstage from the open back. But the open back also made the mids too forward, which just didn't sound right to me. So as a temporary measure, I took a hole punch, cut 2 pieces of vinyl graphics film I had laying around, and slapped them over the hole (in other words, fancy tape). The sound was back the way I liked it (ie the same as they were before I cut the housing down). I ordered some tiny 7mmx1mm neodymium magnets, which I'll epoxy onto the back in place of the vinyl as a permanent solution once they arrive. I'll be able to 'stick' them together when not in use (a popular feature now on IEMs, especially bluetooth IEMs).

Anyways, the bottom line is if you have this IEM and have never been happy with the sound, ditch the stock tips and get some KZ Starlines on there. You'll seriously love the way they sound. You'll have to be really patient to get them all of the way on the nozzles, but the results are well worth it. And if you're looking for some really nice sleeping IEMs (which is already a market with extremely limited choices), consider trying the HDS2 (regardless of whether you cut the end off like I did or not).

Here's some photos of the modded vs stock HDS2 (click for larger views):

Stock HDS2 - look at how tiny these are!


Modded HDS2 - even SMALLER now!


Stock vs modded HDS2 - Side by side



Closeup of the temporary vinyl piece on the back (to be permanently replaced by 7mmx1mm magnet). Sorry, I didn't take a photo of the open hole.


----------



## EISENbricher

Been following KZ since they had like 3-4 models at best. It's really wonderful to see how tall they have managed to rise.

I remember nagging Yue He (KZ Rep on AliExpress) may times to produce products having BA drivers and they did deliver : )    Love my ZS5, will grab ZS6's successor whenever that arrives. Skipping ZS6 for now as it might be a marginal upgrade to ZS5 (and I already have tons of KZ lying around).


----------



## Podster

EISENbricher said:


> Been following KZ since they had like 3-4 models at best. It's really wonderful to see how tall they have managed to rise.
> 
> I remember nagging Yue He (KZ Rep on AliExpress) may times to produce products having BA drivers and they did deliver : )    Love my ZS5, will grab ZS6's successor whenever that arrives. Skipping ZS6 for now as it might be a marginal upgrade to ZS5 (and I already have tons of KZ lying around).



Howdy Eisen, been a while. You know I love me some KZ. Nice Avatart, love my ZN1 Minis to death. I'm not trying to influence you but IMO ZS6 is total refinement of the ZS5V1's and I have the Blue and the Gray ones. They are good, ZS6 IMHO is better. Honestly think you would be impressed with them but understand waiting for the next one too.


----------



## EISENbricher (Nov 17, 2017)

Podster said:


> Howdy Eisen, been a while. You know I love me some KZ. Nice Avatart, love my ZN1 Minis to death. I'm not trying to influence you but IMO ZS6 is total refinement of the ZS5V1's and I have the Blue and the Gray ones. They are good, ZS6 IMHO is better. Honestly think you would be impressed with them but understand waiting for the next one too.


Nice to see you, Pod. Well, life changes after getting married. Been less active here on forums compared to last year because of that. But still hard into music.

Yes I absolutely remember your love for KZ. ZN1 mini are really good, one of the unique sounding offering from KZ. I kept rotating between ZN1mini and ED9 before I received ZS5.
Yeah, I've been tempted too many times already : )  Yesterday even saw a deal for ZS6 at $19, almost gave up to the urge but the coupon code was expired.

As far as I know ZS6 has same drivers as ZS5V1 right? Except for the rear vent and metal chamber that might make difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.
After experimenting ZS5 a bit, trying different eartips I settled for Sony Hybrids and bit of cotton stuffing inside eartips. Result is ideal signature for me. I think I can comfortably say that ZS5 are the best sounding earphones in my inventory. Only thing is that they are very source and tip dependent.


----------



## desai_amogh

Podster said:


> I'd say for $4 you are OK, most of the oldskool KZ's had non-removable cables but ask next time before you pull that trigger



Suggest a decent <$20 bluetooth IEM please.  I want it specifically to watch TV so people's voices and whatever those frequencies are, should be clear.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 17, 2017)

EISENbricher said:


> As far as I know ZS6 has same drivers as ZS5V1 right? Except for the rear vent and metal chamber that might make difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.


By appearances, ZS6 shares internals with the ZS5v2 - crossover dividing two DDs with separate sound channels, and a pair of KZ 30095 BAs in the nozzle. In addition to the altered back vent, ZS6 has a different front vent size (smaller), slightly different BA placement, and removes the piece of tuning tape that can be found covering the smaller DD in the ZS5 (v1 and v2).

ZS5v1 has no crossover, all full-range drivers wired in parallel with acoustic division (I believe no sound pipe for the smaller DD like in the ZS5v2/ZS6, just a resonance chamber, or some such), with a model 1205 BA in the nozzle and a KZ 30095 BA within the body.


The crossover cuts the worst of the source pickiness (4 ohms impedance on the ZS5v1 = absurdly current hungry), and inverts the impedance curve (opposite impedance properties: where the ZS5v1 gets more treble with added output impedance, ZS6 gets less) and also inverts the phase shift direction. 

Doubling up the BA power right next to your ear drum (obviously) increases the treble peak a bit more.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> So I've had a need for a small earphone for sleeping, and one of the smallest IEMs I already own is the KZ HDS2.
> 
> They aren't in my listening rotation that often, because I've never really liked how they sounded. They were just too neutral and lacked bass, which just made them boring and narrow sounding. The nozzles are odd-sized and shaped, and not many tips fit other than the stock tips (goofy dual flange tips that are uncomfortable and don't seal well at all). I always felt like the tips had to be the cause of the gutless bass.
> 
> ...


A sleepable KZ? Well done sir, well done.
What other IEMs do you know of that work for side sleepers? Seems to be an under served market...


----------



## chi-fi mel

oyobass said:


> A sleepable KZ? Well done sir, well done.
> What other IEMs do you know of that work for side sleepers? Seems to be an under served market...


I'm currently using a Sony microdriver that I bought around 5 years ago. It's actually a lot smaller than Slater's modded sleep phones. I don't recall the model number, but zilch chance they still make it. The SQ is very good with the bass boost on. I used to use the SoundMagic ES18 for sleeping - untouchable for SQ and comfort, but I noticed the ear that was against the pillow would sometimes lose volume. Changing the tips helped but didn't totally eliminate the problem so I switched to the Sony after trying many IEM's including the MEMT X5 which is small, but has uneven pressure distribution. I tried the Uiisii HM7, which are small and sound good, but not quite as comfortable as the Sony or SoundMagic.


----------



## Slater (Nov 17, 2017)

EISENbricher said:


> As far as I know ZS6 has same drivers as ZS5V1 right? Except for the rear vent and metal chamber that might make difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.





vector84 said:


> By appearances, ZS6 shares internals with the ZS5v2 - crossover dividing two DDs with separate sound channels, and a pair of KZ 30095 BAs in the nozzle. In addition to the altered back vent, ZS6 has a different front vent size (smaller), slightly different BA placement, and removes the piece of tuning tape that can be found covering the smaller DD in the ZS5 (v1 and v2).
> 
> ZS5v1 has no crossover, all full-range drivers wired in parallel with acoustic division (I believe no sound pipe for the smaller DD like in the ZS5v2/ZS6, just a resonance chamber, or some such), with a model 1205 BA in the nozzle and a KZ 30095 BA within the body.
> 
> ...



Nice summary @vector84.

I would add:

DD bass vent is double the size on the ZS5 v1 and v2 (ie half the size on the ZS6). So ZS6 has a lil more/better bass compared to the ZS5 (a nice match for the ZS6's increased treble and also sweeter midrange from the tape removal). Photo here:





ZS6 housing was revised in a number of spots, which resolved ZS5 comfort/hotspot complaints. Photos here:


----------



## skajohyros

vector84 said:


> By appearances, ZS6 shares internals with the ZS5v2 - crossover dividing two DDs with separate sound channels, and a pair of KZ 30095 BAs in the nozzle. In addition to the altered back vent, ZS6 has a different front vent size (smaller), slightly different BA placement, and removes the piece of tuning tape that can be found covering the smaller DD in the ZS5 (v1 and v2).
> 
> ZS5v1 has no crossover, all full-range drivers wired in parallel with acoustic division (I believe no sound pipe for the smaller DD like in the ZS5v2/ZS6, just a resonance chamber, or some such), with a model 1205 BA in the nozzle and a KZ 30095 BA within the body.
> 
> ...



Excellent verbal tear down.


----------



## EISENbricher

Wow @vector84 and @Slater, that was a very elaborate explanation.
Thanks a ton for posting the differences.


----------



## Slater (Nov 17, 2017)

oyobass said:


> A sleepable KZ? Well done sir, well done.
> What other IEMs do you know of that work for side sleepers? Seems to be an under served market...



The only one I own that I have used for side sleep is the MEMT X5 and the QKZ W1 Pro.

The modified KZ HDS2 will replace both of them, because it's smaller and more comfortable (with the best sound). The W1 Pro is the most secure though, being a behind-the-ear design. I never once woke up without them still securely in my ears. I found it does help to run the cable of any of the sleeping IEMs down my shirt and to the DAP clipped to my clothes (I use an iPod Nano 6G). That cuts down on 90% of the tangles and things that would cause IEMs to get pulled out of my ears during the night (especially IEMs worn 'down' like the MEMT X5, KZ HDS2, etc).

As far as other alternatives, I see this one recommended a lot (but I don't personally own it): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-531#post-13400794

And a search also yielded these possibilities (again I don't own any of them so maybe PM the owners and ask about side sleeping etc):

Hopefully @HungryPanda will chime in about this https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-728#post-13683369
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-171#post-13470576
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-473#post-13363038
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-290#post-13834869
Like you mentioned, side sleep is the key. A lot of people use different IEMs and even earbuds anf full size headphones for "sleeping". But if you sleep on your back and don't roll around at night, you could pretty much get away with anything. Side sleeping is a whole other story.

Be sure to let us know if you find something that works out for you and that you really like!


----------



## Slater (Nov 17, 2017)

EISENbricher said:


> Wow @vector84 and @Slater, that was a very elaborate explanation.
> Thanks a ton for posting the differences.



No problem.

BTW, the 'guide tube' @vector84 mentioned is for the midrange driver.

KZ added it to the ZS6, but no one has done a teardown of the ZS5 v2 yet to determine if it's in there as well. It's definitely not there in the ZS5 v1.

Here's photos in case you're curious about what it looks like (the little metal tube):




And the 'tuning tape' on the midrange driver (aka masking tape haha) can be seen here (on the ZS5 v1 and v2, removed on the ZS6):

You can see the effect of the midrange tape and guide tube on the following FR graph (1.5k to 4k) - click for larger view:


Even though there's technically 'less midrange' on the ZS6 according to the FR graph, the mids sound better on the ZS6 IMO.


----------



## bsoplinger

Someone had asked about earphones for sleeping. I posted this in a different thread but it fits here. Useful for side sleepers



bsoplinger said:


> I'm sorry but my answer probably won't be any help for you.
> 
> tl;dr  I was diagnosed with sleep apnea a number of years ago and got a CPAP machine. I stopped using it after about 8 months but... Since I sleep on my side I had issues with my head slowly settling down into the pillow as I slept and causing my mask to gap because of the pressure from the pillow on the side of the mask. So I found something that worked for me. I used one of those U-shaped travel pillows. I'd set it on top of a single regular pillow, oriented upside down or backwards, so that the bottom part of the U was under my neck and one arm of the U supported my face from under ear on my jaw along the side of my face in front of my ear and my temple. The other arm of the U supported the back of my head. The end result was no way was there any pressure on my CPAP mask. Very long story short, although I don't use the machine anymore, I still use the travel pillow. So I can use any earphone, even ones that would stick out up to about an inch and I'd never have problems because the area under my ear isn't touching my pillow.
> 
> Having said that, I'd suggest something small like the SoundMAGIC PL50 or similar style designs, KZ ZST (under $20), TFZ (the Fragrant Zither) either Exclusive or Series lines (although I'd suggest the plastic shelled ones as lighter and less likely to fall out or need to be removed. The metal shelled (in the $100 range for these) King, Exclusive 5 and Series 4 all get good reviews here. The plastic shelled ones are less expensive and still get decent reviews). I've used the following personally, although remember my caveat above, SoundMAGIC PL50, KZ ZS5 and ZS6, TFZ Exclusive 5, Brainwavz B150, Senzer High Resolution, Marshall Mode, Mee Pinnacle PX, A151 and M6 just to list some of the IEMs I've been experimenting with the last few months.


----------



## oyobass

desai_amogh said:


> Suggest a decent <$20 bluetooth IEM please.  I want it specifically to watch TV so people's voices and whatever those frequencies are, should be clear.


Just wanted to say that Bluetooth is not a great method to use for watching TV/video due to the delay. 

You will hear the voices a second or so after seeing the actor's lips move, kind of like watching a poorly translated and dubbed foreign language film.


----------



## desai_amogh

oyobass said:


> Just wanted to say that Bluetooth is not a great method to use for watching TV/video due to the delay.
> 
> You will hear the voices a second or so after seeing the actor's lips move, kind of like watching a poorly translated and dubbed foreign language film.



I have tested below headphone with my tv, both tv and videos work equally fine. no delay at all.

http://www.boat-lifestyle.com/rockerz600/index.html


----------



## Podster

EISENbricher said:


> Wow @vector84 and @Slater, that was a very elaborate explanation.
> Thanks a ton for posting the differences.



Indeed, Team SlaterVect can surely break them down from a technical standpoint, mine is always SQ and build based. I'm 100% with B9 on the point the ZS6 is no Treble cannon (for me IMO 99% of those who find the ZS5's or 6 treble cannons have not found the right tips for them) easy fella's as you know I love my highs and mids or what else could explain my blue backs on my A4's Still think for the most part it's a tip issue, OK proceed with the stone toss I had the grocery run after Racquetball last night and work my ZS6's w/upgrade Bronze cable with my iPhone 6 and the first thing I noticed before even getting into the store was the crisp detail with gobs of bass layered throughout, IMHO the ZS6 is the Fashizzle Dizzle (Pod drops his Fan Boy mic)

Then again the Pod still has massive love for the venerable ZST's


----------



## Slater (Nov 17, 2017)

desai_amogh said:


> Suggest a decent <$20 bluetooth IEM please.  I want it specifically to watch TV so people's voices and whatever those frequencies are, should be clear.





oyobass said:


> Just wanted to say that Bluetooth is not a great method to use for watching TV/video due to the delay.
> 
> You will hear the voices a second or so after seeing the actor's lips move, kind of like watching a poorly translated and dubbed foreign language film.



aptX has a low latency implementation for videos and TV: https://www.aptx.com/aptx-low-latency

The list of products that use it: https://www.aptx.com/products?field_aptx_type_tid=484

If you get one of the receivers to plug into the TV audio, and pair it with one of the following you're golden:

A compatible bluetooth headphone (such as the B&O Beoplay H8, H9, or Plantronics BackBeat Pro)
An appropriate transmitter (which then you can then use with any IEM or headphone)
I know it's not a <$20 IEM, but my point is to look for an IEM with aptX, because there are way more products that use aptX that never appear on the aptX website list.


----------



## HiFiChris

I don't know, but I somehow find the ZS5's shape to be more comfortable - I don't feel any edges on the ZS5 when it's in my ears, however I do with the ZS6.


----------



## Podster (Nov 17, 2017)

HiFiChris said:


> I don't know, but I somehow find the ZS5's shape to be more comfortable - I don't feel any edges on the ZS5 when it's in my ears, however I do with the ZS6.



I think like our own personal desired sound signatures we all have differently shaped ears as well Chris, I'm just the opposite on these two models and the ZST even fits me better than my ZS6. On the bright side it's great to have so many choices from KZ Appreciate the like on my gold cable pair but my iPhone 6 is no match for the awesome shots you put up on here

@bsoplinger  , you are correct there is a iem's for sleeping thread which has some great post in it but always good to bring these up even if not directed there. These are my two sleepers



Trinity Hyperions and Klipsch X7's


----------



## nxnje

desai_amogh said:


> Suggest a decent <$20 bluetooth IEM please.  I want it specifically to watch TV so people's voices and whatever those frequencies are, should be clear.



I wouls suggest u buying KZ Zst with Bluetooth replacement cable.. u won't regret it. ZST colorful/pro even have good bass (not so much sub-bass) but the good thing is they have a very decent soundstage and crispy highs, so u'll get a real good pair of headphones for what u've been lookin for


----------



## desai_amogh

nxnje said:


> I wouls suggest u buying KZ Zst with Bluetooth replacement cable.. u won't regret it. ZST colorful/pro even have good bass (not so much sub-bass) but the good thing is they have a very decent soundstage and crispy highs, so u'll get a real good pair of headphones for what u've been lookin for


Thanks. I bought a KZ ATE yesterday and somebody here made me understand its fixed cable iem. Today i saw an offer on Meizu EP51 for $24 total so ordered that.

Will see if KZ ZST has any offers.. ATE was just $4 so if I get such offer on ZST id just order it. Even the BT cables are selling $6 in offers i think.

Anyways, Thanks again for the help guys!


----------



## Rilke

What is your solution to protect the zs6 from scratches in the pocket ?


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> @bsoplinger  , you are correct there is a iem's for sleeping thread which has some great post in it but always good to bring these up even if not directed there. These are my two sleepers
> 
> Trinity Hyperions and Klipsch X7's


Yeah, that's why I posted it as a quote instead of just copying all the text. Figured folks who just are reading here might be curious about my solution but anyone else could just ignore it Since I don't always take my travel pillow with me when I travel, and doesn't that feel odd to write , I do keep an eye out for tiny phones. I currently use the Senzer H1 for sleeping without my travel pillow. The cable makes me afraid it'll break but hasn't yet. And for <$15 from Amazon with 2 day delivery I can always get another.


----------



## Superluc

Rilke said:


> What is your solution to protect the zs6 from scratches in the pocket ?


I don't like to use case with zip, so for IEMs i often use a soft pouch or a case with magnetic closure.

Some example:
https://aliexpress.com/item/2016-Ne...108.1000016.1.737a9d34ydN5gO&isOrigTitle=true
https://aliexpress.com/item/New-Ori...108.1000016.1.13a5a7d8ccy3Z8&isOrigTitle=true


----------



## Saoshyant

@oyobass As I'm not a big IEM user when sleeping, the one I do use the few times I do it is Hifiman RE-300.  It's tiny, has an enjoyable sound for me, and is inexpensive if I accidentally destroy it in my sleep.  It's not AK Light small, but it's not much bigger either.  I am a side sleeper, and can't really feel the IEM when lying down.  The AK Light linked earlier also has a fun sound, and really is one of the smallest IEMs made.  Both of them are tuned for a fun sound.


----------



## Podster

Superluc said:


> I don't like to use case with zip, so for IEMs i often use a soft pouch or a case with magnetic closure.
> 
> Some example:
> https://aliexpress.com/item/2016-Ne...108.1000016.1.737a9d34ydN5gO&isOrigTitle=true
> https://aliexpress.com/item/New-Ori...108.1000016.1.13a5a7d8ccy3Z8&isOrigTitle=true



I like that first pouch @Superluc , actually use it as a coin purse in my console!! LOL


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I like that first pouch @Superluc , actually use it as a coin purse in my console!! LOL



A true HeadFier - center console is jam packed with IEMs


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> A true HeadFier - center console is jam packed with IEMs



Right, over flow must go somewhere

I've figured out the wife just chooses to ignore mine since her shoes and clothes areas seem to get more crowded Went from a old leather Dell laptop bag in the beginning to this! When I say I'm a sick puppy I mean I'm a SICK puppy





Guess my next step is to go to some kind of trunk or maybe I should pre purchase my coffin and just have them throw away all this stuff when they have to put me in it


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Podster said:


> Right, over flow must go somewhere
> 
> I've figured out the wife just chooses to ignore mine since her shoes and clothes areas seem to get more crowded Went from a old leather Dell laptop bag in the beginning to this! When I say I'm a sick puppy I mean I'm a SICK puppy
> 
> ...


Can you send me a few of those  triangle shaped cases, I could really use them? Cool, thanks man.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I can't find it, but I recall someone mentioned that a Headfier had sanded down some edges on their ZS5 to make them more comfortable...is there a write up on it? How sandable are the ZS5?


----------



## vector84 (Nov 17, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Can you send me a few of those  triangle shaped cases, I could really use them? Cool, thanks man.


https://www.aliexpress.com/af/trian...e_asc&g=y&SearchText=triangle+headphones+case


Cruelhand Luke said:


> I can't find it, but I recall someone mentioned that a Headfier had sanded down some edges on their ZS5 to make them more comfortable...is there a write up on it? How sandable are the ZS5?


@oyobass is the head-fi'er with first-hand experience of sanding the ZS5s down, but the more aggressive sanding jobs came from posts on HEEP iirc.

And they're not super hard plastic either, I polished off the sharpest edges with just a fingernail.


----------



## Skyyyeman

Use .78mm 2 pin cable with KZ .75mm?

Has anyone tried this, which would entail forcing the .78mm into the .75mm slots? Can the KS slots take the forcing OK? 

If this is possible this opens up a whole world of other cables to use with the KS IEM.


----------



## vector84

Skyyyeman said:


> Use .78mm 2 pin cable with KZ .75mm?
> 
> Has anyone tried this, which would entail forcing the .78mm into the .75mm slots? Can the KS slots take the forcing OK?
> 
> If this is possible this opens up a whole world of other cables to use with the KS IEM.


Yes, it works, but the connector will stretch out (and you might have to work to make that happen, possibly even requiring additional careful work with a small pin or similar) - usually stretching enough that the stock 0.72mm and 0.75mm pin KZ cables won't fit securely after using a 0.78mm pin cable.


----------



## Skyyyeman

vector84 said:


> Yes, it works, but the connector will stretch out (and you might have to work to make that happen, possibly even requiring additional careful work with a small pin or similar) - usually stretching enough that the stock 0.72mm and 0.75mm pin KZ cables won't fit securely after using a 0.78mm pin cable.



Thanks!  Very helpful! I'll probably try soon on my ZS5 -- before the ZS6.

I'll post something after I do it to share the results.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

vector84 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/af/triangle-headphones-case.html?site=glo&groupsort=ow of claifor1&SortType=price_asc&g=y&SearchText=triangle+headphones+case
> 
> @oyobass is the head-fi'er with first-hand experience of sanding the ZS5s down, but the more aggressive sanding jobs came from posts on HEEP iirc.
> 
> And they're not super hard plastic either, I polished off the sharpest edges with just a fingernail.


good info, thanks. I have some ZS5 inbound (I'm curious to see how long it takes to get from China to my little weird elbow of California) I have concerns about fit ...but if they are a softer plastic, I am good with materials..


----------



## vector84

Cruelhand Luke said:


> good info, thanks. I have some ZS5 inbound (I'm curious to see how long it takes to get from China to my little weird elbow of California) I have concerns about fit ...but if they are a softer plastic, I am good with materials..


A few other things that have been shared in relation to sanding them: they're not particularly thick plastic, so you'll want to go slowly and possibly even consider a build up & remove process if you want to make larger changes.  Also be sure to cover the hidden side vents lest they get mucked up with plastic dust.


----------



## eaglearrow (Nov 18, 2017)

Bought the zs6 for 19.99 + 1.4 shipping from gearbest on 16th Nov.. I couldn't just let go of that deal. 

Also bought the second pair of  Zs3 for $2.99 + $1.4 shipping yesterday.. 

Both using GB coupons


----------



## jaydm99

I recently painted my ZS5 to matte black, I used a $2 spray paint (Bosny). I didn't sand it down. I used acetone to remove the original paint. Still sounds the same to me, if not better


----------



## hakuzen

received zs5 from gearbest. ordered on nov 4th. blue without mic. v1 again..


----------



## HiFiChris

Jay Magaling said:


> I recently painted my ZS5 to matte black, I used a $2 spray paint (Bosny). I didn't sand it down. I used acetone to remove the original paint. Still sounds the same to me, if not better



Now get another one and paint it green metallic.


----------



## Earphone KIng

The new KZ ZS6 are absolutely great! I wrote a review about them. Can guys let me know what you think of it?

http://earphoneking.com/kz-zs6-review-quad-drivers-blow-away/


----------



## mbwilson111

Earphone KIng said:


> The new KZ ZS6 are absolutely great! I wrote a review about them. Can guys let me know what you think of it?
> 
> http://earphoneking.com/kz-zs6-review-quad-drivers-blow-away/



Nicely written review... and I agree... the zs6 are great!  I am a bit annoyed though because now I wonder why I have so many others...although it is nice to have ones that I can just put straight in.  I do  have to take some time with over ear wires and when I take them out I have to untangle them from my hair.  So, once I have them in, I hate to be interrupted!  One night I  listened with them for 5 hours without stopping.  I was enjoying my music too much to stop.  The plug thing is very personal... I actually prefer straight plug ends.  Maybe I am the only one.  I wish that when ordering replacement cables there would be a choice of straight vs 90 degree.


----------



## JimJames

Second hand Hifiman RE 400 for 25€ or brand new KZ ZS6 (with upgraded cable) for 30-35€?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ZS6 without question. I found the RE400 to be competent but intensely boring.


----------



## stryed

Earphone KIng said:


> The new KZ ZS6 are absolutely great! I wrote a review about them. Can guys let me know what you think of it?
> 
> http://earphoneking.com/kz-zs6-review-quad-drivers-blow-away/



Would you say that the ZS6 is a sound upgrade coming from the ZS5?


----------



## HungryPanda

I would say the ZS6 is way better than ZS5


----------



## mono-type

Yes, ZS6 > ZS5, especially if used with foam tips. Good thing I waited for the ZS6 to be released after it was announced, as I'm really eyeing into buying the ZS5 around the time ZS6 was announced. ZS6 beats ZS5 on almost everything, especially on build quality and color choices (I think that already goes without saying, as the ZS6 has a metal shell compared to ZS5's plastic). Good things come to those who wait, indeed.


----------



## TJK81

So guys... I spent some time with my 'precious' Andromeda look like ZS6.
So... where do i have to start...
Donno... lets start at the *Eivind Aarset* and his '1998' *Électronique Noire*. First tones of the Dark Moisture and... I have never heard so bassy ear/head phones ever in my life... (i know... you have to say... you are living very limited life dude). After about a minute of the intense bass pumpin' everything else appears... beautiful mids and crystal clear highs. And them Entrance / U-Bahn and beloved Lost and Found... So enjoyable and fun to listen to. Maybe I let myself be carried away... in the beginning... I just love the album.
Next *John Coltrane - Blue trane*... Another beloved album... And *Miles Davis - Sketches of Spain*... Fabolous separation of the each instrument. Every instrument had perfect contour and very accurate tonality. When KZ's producing and manifacturing their ZS6's they tune them listening these jazz albums... Absolutely perfect.
ZS6's are just perfect to listen to any kind of jazz.
Another step... Pop...*Madonna - Immaculate collection*... I wanna highlight especially Vogue... Great impact, great flow of the music and... what next... nothing... it's just POP. In the good way
After that Lionel Richie - Best of... Back to front (K2HD Mastring)... Do it to me... great. My destiny, All night long long ... bla bla bla... and then Dancing on the Ceiling... jeeez Treble canon... (Yes... on some track ZS6's are a little bit harsh and sibilant) only for 4 minutes. And then it came... *Hello*... I was like butter on the hot toast... No i'm not gay... Perfect in every way... (especially Lionel's voice).
Another one *Adele - 25. *And another Hello... Perfectness... Her voice is like a bucket full of honey. Send my love... Another great one. Good album... Again just a POP .
I listened some other pop/dance albums *Coldplay, Elvis Prestley, Justin Timberlake, The KLF, Royksopp, George Michael*... and... Some artist was a little bit... difficult to listen to... You know what i mean George M... (Your piercing T and Ssssssss).
Hip-Hop/Rap/Black music... *A tribe called quest, Arrested development, De la soul, Bill Withers, D'Angelo (great voice he have), Maxwell (another great male voice), Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Marvin Gaye, Jurrasic 5,* etc...
For the bass heads... *yes they are for you*... as a bonus you will get great clarity... What for in the Hip-Hop... Hmm...
Classical... *Puccini, Vivaldi* (His 4 seasons... Oh my...), *Smetata* (My country), *Dvořák *(Symphony Nr.9), even Recomposed Vivaldis 4 seasons from *Max Richter*... Awesomeness. Superb soundstage, imaging, layering, instrument separation... Perfect... Talking about 30dollar multi driver IEM.

I could continue with rock, (AC/DC, Rolling Stones, Beatles, CCR, DMB, CSNY, DM, Pink Floyd, Van Der Graaf) depending on quality of the mastering... As better the mastering quality as better ZS6's sounds.

They are superb allrounder (but they can play absolutely the best jazz and classical music) and for me THE BEST KZ'S TO THE DATE.

My new daily driver... My new 'precious'... And finally... In green they looks hell of a great.


----------



## khighly

Just ordered the ZS6 + the high quality upgrade cable just for some extra rugged feeling, and the fluffin memory wire in the KZ silver cable bothers me to no end even after it's been removed and trimmed at the two pin connector side. 

Will behere later today. I'll probably write an initial review tomorrow. Curious to see if these are really piercing high flamethrowers, or if it's just another one of those "Reeee ZST bad because it's bright and detailed". Hopefully it's the ZS5 and more.

If not, hey, it's Amazon I'll get my money back if they're as bad as a lot make them out to be. ZS5v1's continue to impess.


----------



## stryed

mono-type said:


> Yes, ZS6 > ZS5, especially if used with foam tips. Good thing I waited for the ZS6 to be released after it was announced, as I'm really eyeing into buying the ZS5 around the time ZS6 was announced. ZS6 beats ZS5 on almost everything, especially on build quality and color choices (I think that already goes without saying, as the ZS6 has a metal shell compared to ZS5's plastic). Good things come to those who wait, indeed.



God dammnit...Now I have to get one ='(


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I can't find it, but I recall someone mentioned that a Headfier had sanded down some edges on their ZS5 to make them more comfortable...is there a write up on it? How sandable are the ZS5?



Don't know who it was, but it's an admirable job for sure.


----------



## skajohyros (Nov 18, 2017)

TJK81 said:


> So guys... I spent some time with my 'precious' Andromeda look like ZS6.
> So... where do i have to start...
> Donno... lets start at the *Eivind Aarset* and his '1998' *Électronique Noire*. First tones of the Dark Moisture and... I have never heard so bassy ear/head phones ever in my life... (i know... you have to say... you are living very limited life dude). After about a minute of the intense bass pumpin' everything else appears... beautiful mids and crystal clear highs. And them Entrance / U-Bahn and beloved Lost and Found... So enjoyable and fun to listen to. Maybe I let myself be carried away... in the beginning... I just love the album.
> Next *John Coltrane - Blue trane*... Another beloved album... And *Miles Davis - Sketches of Spain*... Fabolous separation of the each instrument. Every instrument had perfect contour and very accurate tonality. When KZ's producing and manifacturing their ZS6's they tune them listening these jazz albums... Absolutely perfect.
> ...


Love your enthusiasm. I'm going to get a pair.


----------



## Slater

I can't remember if this was posted here already, but KZ has discontinued the green ZS6 (likely due to pressure from 'a 3rd party').

So if you have been on the fence about them, pick a set up while there's still time.


----------



## TheGame21x

Well, I'm glad I got my green set when I did.


----------



## HungryPanda

I ended up with two green ones as one came in a gearbest lucky bag. The second ones went to my wife


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I can't remember if this was posted here already, but KZ has discontinued the green ZS6 (likely due to pressure from 'a 3rd party').
> 
> So if you have been on the fence about them, pick a set up while there's still time.



Yeah I think we saw that coming.  Maybe they will introduce a new color...how about deep purple?

I love the shade of green they used.  Happy to have mine.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I ended up with two green ones as one came in a gearbest lucky bag. The second ones went to my wife



Lucky wife


----------



## TJK81 (Nov 18, 2017)

Slater said:


> I can't remember if this was posted here already, but KZ has discontinued the green ZS6 (likely due to pressure from 'a 3rd party').
> 
> So if you have been on the fence about them, pick a set up while there's still time.


Yep, truth... I was trying to get antoher pair from Jim's NiceHCK on the 11.11. He PM me later that those green are not available and they not will be anymore since KZ's stop to manufacturing them... He offered me a grey one instead. I was refuse it to wrote him that i have a nice pair of a ZS5's.
EDIT: He really offered the green one on 11.11.
EDIT 2: It's really, really hard to find green one it these days


----------



## xrk971 (Nov 18, 2017)

I just measured the impedance vs frequency on my ZS5v1 and v2's.  As far as I am concerned, it is a totally different earphone.  The base impedance as mentioned earlier is about 5ohms on v1 and 15ohms on the v2.  There appears to be different phase response and peaks where there used to be a dip in the impedance.  One easy explantion of the low 5ohm impedance is consistent with statement that all four drivers are wired in parallel.  For nominal 16ohm drivers four in parallel is about 4ohms.  If the v2 has a crossover, each driver is now part of an overall crossover circuit so the overall impedance can be tuned for a nominal 14-16ohm value. This should be easier to drive with some amps that cannot handle 4ohm loads.

Typo on labels below green is v1, blue is V2 (lower set of curves). Upper set is phase. 




I am finally starting to listen to them now.  Driving with my XRKaudio NHB amp. I immediately feel that they are a totally different sounding phone.  There seems to immediately apparent reduction in coherence.  This is sometimes an issue on speakers with crossovers where the phase relationaships are not well aligned.  Sometimes called "phasiness" - I will listen more but my first 10min with them is already problematic. Reminiscent of when cable polarity is backwards on one of the phones.  But I checked cable connectors and the rounded end is correctly oriented.

But maybe really should reserve any judgements until I listen for a few days. It could just be the very bright presentation. Definitely more highs.


----------



## JimJames

TJK81 said:


> So guys... I spent some time with my 'precious' Andromeda look like ZS6.
> So... where do i have to start...
> Donno... lets start at the *Eivind Aarset* and his '1998' *Électronique Noire*. First tones of the Dark Moisture and... I have never heard so bassy ear/head phones ever in my life... (i know... you have to say... you are living very limited life dude). After about a minute of the intense bass pumpin' everything else appears... beautiful mids and crystal clear highs. And them Entrance / U-Bahn and beloved Lost and Found... So enjoyable and fun to listen to. Maybe I let myself be carried away... in the beginning... I just love the album.
> Next *John Coltrane - Blue trane*... Another beloved album... And *Miles Davis - Sketches of Spain*... Fabolous separation of the each instrument. Every instrument had perfect contour and very accurate tonality. When KZ's producing and manifacturing their ZS6's they tune them listening these jazz albums... Absolutely perfect.
> ...


Given the famous treble harshness of the ZS6, didn't Miles Davis' trumpet sound too shrilling at times?


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> Yeah I think we saw that coming.  Maybe they will introduce a new color...how about deep purple?
> 
> I love the shade of green they used.  Happy to have mine.



I would buy these in a metallic deep purple/galaxy for $50 in a second even if they sounded worse than the ZS5v1's.


----------



## HiFiChris

JimJames said:


> Second hand Hifiman RE 400 for 25€ or brand new KZ ZS6 (with upgraded cable) for 30-35€?



You do know that both IEMs have got totally different sound signatures, don't you?


----------



## khighly

Greens are available on amazon prime by the way. I just picked up a pair of black ones.


----------



## TJK81

JimJames said:


> Given the famous treble harshness of the ZS6, didn't Miles Davis' trumpet sound too shrilling at times?


As far as i remember... at the moderate non painful sound pressure NO (with foamies). Just very bright. Much more problematic for me is definitely humans voice and the letter T and S in words and sentencies.


----------



## jaydm99 (Nov 18, 2017)

Slater said:


> Don't know who it was, but it's an admirable job for sure.


I'm the one who posted that pic here. It's not my work neither. 

But the owner mentioned that he sanded it down starting at 360 grit then worked his way up to 2000 to give it a smooth finish.


----------



## wastan

bsoplinger said:


> Yeah, that's why I posted it as a quote instead of just copying all the text. Figured folks who just are reading here might be curious about my solution but anyone else could just ignore it Since I don't always take my travel pillow with me when I travel, and doesn't that feel odd to write , I do keep an eye out for tiny phones. I currently use the Senzer H1 for sleeping without my travel pillow. The cable makes me afraid it'll break but hasn't yet. And for <$15 from Amazon with 2 day delivery I can always get another.



Is the Senzer any good? The reviews aren't great but the form factor is perfect for sleeping


----------



## HungryPanda

HiFiChris said:


> You do know that both IEMs have got totally different sound signatures, don't you?


Funny thing is that after I received a pair of red ones (having listened to the green ZS6's for weeks) I honestly believe the red ones sound better. I don't know if it is just a different batch or what


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I ended up with two green ones as one came in a gearbest lucky bag. The second ones went to my wife



Wow, your wife sounds pretty cool. I'm sure she appreciated that


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Wow, your wife sounds pretty cool. I'm sure she appreciated that



Lol...I am sure she continues to appreciate that.


----------



## Happy Hacking

Loving my ZS6 after burn-in + foam tips + better cables. Tamed the treble and it sounds amazing now.


----------



## mbwilson111

wastan said:


> Is the Senzer any good? The reviews aren't great but the form factor is perfect for sleeping



I actually got the Senzer H1 because of Vidal's positive review.  I had not thought about it for sleeping.  Just checked the fit...sticks out too far for side sleeping.


----------



## vladstef

HungryPanda said:


> Funny thing is that after I received a pair of red ones (having listened to the green ZS6's for weeks) I honestly believe the red ones sound better. I don't know if it is just a different batch or what



I believe that this could be the case. At first, people were seriously bashing the ZS6 as it had too much of a treble spike but impressions have changed drastically. Yes, people still find them harsh and that is why there are lots of foam tips posts, but nothing like when they first came out. KZ has done this in the past, ZS5v1 and v2 being the example, but this time they might have changed stuff in terms of crossover and how loud the BAs are - very hard to detect on a massive scale obviously. This is speculation on my part. I guess the proof would be to get gray version and compare it to earliest of green ones.


----------



## bsoplinger

wastan said:


> Is the Senzer any good? The reviews aren't great but the form factor is perfect for sleeping


It does not sound like either version of the ZS5 nor ZS6. But I think they sound surprisingly good considering I could get them in 2 days for $12 from Amazon. As far as for sleeping you have to remember my somewhat unique pillow arrangement. Honestly I could side sleep with something that stuck out from my ear by an inch with my pillow. I will say I've used them while napping or sleeping without my pillow arrangement just fine. Your fit and comfort may be different. I wear them inserted into my ear practically to the cord which I think isn't the norm. If you've read this thread in the last 6 weeks you'll have seen me trying all sorts of tips for comfort because I most definitely either have odd ear pathways or wear them atypically or both.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Happy Hacking said:


> Loving my ZS6 after burn-in + foam tips + better cables. Tamed the treble and it sounds amazing now.



What cable is that?


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> I can't remember if this was posted here already, but KZ has discontinued the green ZS6 (likely due to pressure from 'a 3rd party').
> 
> So if you have been on the fence about them, pick a set up while there's still time.


If any folks could post a pointer to where to get a pair of these for under $30 it'd be nice. Xmas is coming up and I already have a red set. Figure I'll make holiday 'phones.


----------



## TheVortex

SomeGuyDude said:


> What cable is that?



It's the official KZ upgrade cable. It's available from many of the sellers on AliExpress.


----------



## Holypal

SomeGuyDude said:


> What cable is that?



I think that's the cable I prefer more than the silver color one. Here is a link to the KZ store, you can find cheaper ones elsewhere.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...r-Headset-Silver-Plated-Wire/32833176861.html


----------



## Happy Hacking

Holypal said:


> I think that's the cable I prefer more than the silver color one. Here is a link to the KZ store, you can find cheaper ones elsewhere.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...r-Headset-Silver-Plated-Wire/32833176861.html



Yup this cable. Its soft and looks amazing, sounds amazing. Many of the popular sellers have it. AK and NiceHCK has them too.


----------



## Podster

Happy Hacking said:


> Loving my ZS6 after burn-in + foam tips + better cables. Tamed the treble and it sounds amazing now.



Nice shot @Happy Hacking , puts mine to shame! As you can see I have zero treble issues with Starlines and I'm too Chicken to remove the annoying ear wire! Of course I have the triple braid coming for mine anyway


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Thanks everyone! Ordered.


----------



## Happy Hacking

Podster said:


> Nice shot @Happy Hacking , puts mine to shame! As you can see I have zero treble issues with Starlines and I'm too Chicken to remove the annoying ear wire! Of course I have the triple braid coming for mine anyway



Haha yeah I cut the memory wire and rubber out. They're now soo much easier to put on, and also easier to keep in my pockets now.

If you're afraid of cutting the wires, may i suggest just making a small snip at the ends of the rubber wrap, then slowly peel them down until you reach the wire. Once you do, hold the wire with one hand, and everything else on the other, and tearing that rubber apart is like a breeze. Snip off the wire at the end if you cant get them out, and peel/cut the rubber whichever works for you.


----------



## Podster

THX, if I can build up the courage!


----------



## maxxevv

In X'mas livery ....


----------



## orlando2989

Has anyone tried to insert a SMD resistor in series with the BA inside the ZS6 or ZS5v2?




HungryPanda said:


> Funny thing is that after I received a pair of red ones (having listened to the green ZS6's for weeks) I honestly believe the red ones sound better. I don't know if it is just a different batch or what





vladstef said:


> I believe that this could be the case. At first, people were seriously bashing the ZS6 as it had too much of a treble spike but impressions have changed drastically. Yes, people still find them harsh and that is why there are lots of foam tips posts, but nothing like when they first came out. KZ has done this in the past, ZS5v1 and v2 being the example, but this time they might have changed stuff in terms of crossover and how loud the BAs are - very hard to detect on a massive scale obviously. This is speculation on my part. I guess the proof would be to get gray version and compare it to earliest of green ones.


it would be interesting a zs6v2


----------



## young59 (Nov 19, 2017)

orlando2989 said:


> Has anyone tried to insert a SMD resistor in series with the BA inside the ZS6 or ZS5v2?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is probably a SMD resistor already I opened up my ZS5v2 and there was a Resistor on the DD I think that is how they are achieving the crossover.


----------



## khighly

First Impressions of ZS6:

Sounds like *hot garbage*. Built very well. Will update at the 7 day mark.


----------



## charlescc2

Holypal said:


> I think that's the cable I prefer more than the silver color one. Here is a link to the KZ store, you can find cheaper ones elsewhere.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...r-Headset-Silver-Plated-Wire/32833176861.html



For some reason I get a link to the German version of product listings when I click an AliExpress link on here.  Anybody have any idea why?

Also I'm now getting some weird auto correct issue when typing the first word of a new paragraph.



Happy Hacking said:


> Haha yeah I cut the memory wire and rubber out. They're now soo much easier to put on, and also easier to keep in my pockets now.
> 
> If you're afraid of cutting the wires, may i suggest just making a small snip at the ends of the rubber wrap, then slowly peel them down until you reach the wire. Once you do, hold the wire with one hand, and everything else on the other, and tearing that rubber apart is like a breeze. Snip off the wire at the end if you cant get them out, and peel/cut the rubber whichever works for you.



Is it preferable to get rid of the memory wire?  It does annoy me at times, but I'm wondering what the opinions of others are, of whether it is a better experience to not have them.  Also I'm assuming that upgrade cable fits cleanly into the ZS6s with no issues?  I'm not sure how much I'm liking the silver triple braid not going all the way on properly and don't know if I feel like cutting away the plastic.


----------



## xrk971

After more listening tests between ZS5 V1's vs V2's, I can definitely say that they are totally different earphones. I mean totally different sounding. The main difference as most have noted is that the V2 has a lot of upper end, and for me, too much of a good thing can be bad.  It seriously needs EQ, padding, etc. although it has so much etch to it, you can use it to analyze sounds. But be prepared for sibillance.  Sibillance usually rears it head for drivers with peaks in the 10kHz to 12kHz range. VS2 is sibilant.  V1's sound more muted but closer well balanced.


----------



## Happy Hacking (Nov 19, 2017)

charlescc2 said:


> For some reason I get a link to the German version of product listings when I click an AliExpress link on here.  Anybody have any idea why?
> 
> Also I'm now getting some weird auto correct issue when typing the first word of a new paragraph.
> 
> ...



I cant say for everyone but personally, the cable is very light and feels much more natural without the memory wire wearing over-ear. Also, looks better.

It has also saved me so much effort and time constantly adjusting the memory wire every  listening session to get it to hook down properly.

And you dont ever have to worry bending them out of place when keeping them in pockets and then having to bend them back afterwards. I would not buy another cable if it has a memory wire that i cannot remove.

That being said, plenty of people are rocking on memory wires, so I'm sure theres something good going on for them in it! If you feel like the memory wire is causing you nuisance or hate fiddling and adjusting before every listening session, consider going wireless (no pun intended)! It is really simple to do. I have clumsy fingers and have never modded any IEMs or headphones but the moment i received the cable, i went straight to town on it with just a pair of small full- metal scissors. Easy as pie. Just make sure your scissors are small!

A trimmer like this will do the job (i did it with something even bigger, but as long as the very ends are slim, you're good to go):


----------



## JimJames

HiFiChris said:


> You do know that both IEMs have got totally different sound signatures, don't you?


To be honest I don't. I'm looking into my first hifi system so I didn't want to spend much time looking into some cheap iems. I just saw that both have great imaging and clarity but that the RE 400 might re thinner sounding... If you could give me some better info about it I'd appreciate it!


----------



## mono-type

charlescc2 said:


> Is it preferable to get rid of the memory wire?  It does annoy me at times, but I'm wondering what the opinions of others are, of whether it is a better experience to not have them.


Personally, I don't have any issues with the memory wire. In fact, I find it a welcome addition to IEMs, as I don't have to buy separate ear hooks, at least for me. I do kinda agree that it's a bit annoying at times, but I definitely got used to them.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> So I've had a need for a small earphone for sleeping, and one of the smallest IEMs I already own is the KZ HDS2.
> 
> They aren't in my listening rotation that often, because I've never really liked how they sounded. They were just too neutral and lacked bass, which just made them boring and narrow sounding. The nozzles are odd-sized and shaped, and not many tips fit other than the stock tips (goofy dual flange tips that are uncomfortable and don't seal well at all). I always felt like the tips had to be the cause of the gutless bass.
> 
> ...


Great work! Reminds me my KZ R35 grind-mod. Would get HDS2 but unfortunately - they are hard to find?!



hakuzen said:


> received zs5 from gearbest. ordered on nov 4th. blue without mic. v1 again..


Thanks, nice to know there is still possibility to get v1 - which I really like.


mono-type said:


> Yes, ZS6 > ZS5, especially if used with foam tips. Good thing I waited for the ZS6 to be released after it was announced, as I'm really eyeing into buying the ZS5 around the time ZS6 was announced. ZS6 beats ZS5 on almost everything, especially on build quality and color choices (I think that already goes without saying, as the ZS6 has a metal shell compared to ZS5's plastic). Good things come to those who wait, indeed.


BUT... once again - what about those *who do not like and never use foams*? I`m really interested about some opinions @ ZS6 with starline or other popular tips, so, ppl who use silicones could have better insight what they will get.



xrk971 said:


> I just measured the impedance vs frequency on my ZS5v1 and v2's.  As far as I am concerned, it is a totally different earphone.  The base impedance as mentioned earlier is about 5ohms on v1 and 15ohms on the v2.  There appears to be different phase response and peaks where there used to be a dip in the impedance.  One easy explantion of the low 5ohm impedance is consistent with statement that all four drivers are wired in parallel.  For nominal 16ohm drivers four in parallel is about 4ohms.  If the v2 has a crossover, each driver is now part of an overall crossover circuit so the overall impedance can be tuned for a nominal 14-16ohm value. This should be easier to drive with some amps that cannot handle 4ohm loads.
> 
> Typo on labels below green is v1, blue is V2 (lower set of curves). Upper set is phase.
> 
> ...


Thanks for very in-depth information about v1 vs. v2 impedance&highs.


orlando2989 said:


> Has anyone tried to insert a SMD resistor in series with the BA inside the ZS6 or ZS5v2?
> it would be interesting a zs6v2


If I will finally get ZS6 and don`t like highs - will certainly do SMD resistor tweak! 


xrk971 said:


> After more listening tests between ZS5 V1's vs V2's, I can definitely say that they are totally different earphones. I mean totally different sounding. The main difference as most have noted is that the V2 has a lot of upper end, and for me, too much of a good thing can be bad.  It seriously needs EQ, padding, etc. although it has so much etch to it, you can use it to analyze sounds. But be prepared for sibillance.  Sibillance usually rears it head for drivers with peaks in the 10kHz to 12kHz range. VS2 is sibilant.  V1's sound more muted but closer well balanced.


Thanks again for information. I run my ZS5v1 with HW modded DX50 (with more powerful opamps and other stuff) and having low output impedance... now I know why my ZS5v1 sounds so great while many others don`t like them - they are very source&amping dependent.


After reading latest pages with all the rant about ZS6 - I think I`m obligated to get one pair, next month maybe.
I don`t care about colour (I can paint them whenever I want) and will probably do wooden faceplates anyway if I like them.
Now, If someone knows ZS6 deal with ~20$, let me know, I will hit it.


----------



## mono-type (Nov 19, 2017)

CoiL said:


> BUT... once again - what about those *who do not like and never use foams*? I`m really interested about some opinions @ ZS6 with starline or other popular tips, so, ppl who use silicones could have better insight what they will get..


I myself used to dislike foam tips, as they are a bit of a hassle to put into your ears, with all those pinching before use. But out of necessity for IEMs like the ZS6 (since foam tips drastically tones down the shrill treble of ZS6), I got used to them. If one ZS6 user doesn't like or use foam tips, they could try putting a dampening material on the nozzle (like a tiny piece of foam filter cut from earbud foams, or similar material) before inserting the silicone tips (I think this was discussed many, many pages ago). That's what I did while I'm waiting for the foam tips I bought online to arrive, and that mod is pretty effective on reducing treble and giving punchier bass.

Also, AFAIK, most people in this thread recommend using ZS6 with the foam tips, that's why I followed their suggestions and decided to buy some imitation T400 tips.


----------



## kokakolia

JimJames said:


> To be honest I don't. I'm looking into my first hifi system so I didn't want to spend much time looking into some cheap iems. I just saw that both have great imaging and clarity but that the RE 400 might re thinner sounding... If you could give me some better info about it I'd appreciate it!





JimJames said:


> To be honest I don't. I'm looking into my first hifi system so I didn't want to spend much time looking into some cheap iems. I just saw that both have great imaging and clarity but that the RE 400 might re thinner sounding... If you could give me some better info about it I'd appreciate it!



If it were, I'd never ever buy a KZ earphone again unless it's the ED7. I just hate, really hate the sibilance, boosted treble and recessed mids of some of the KZs I tried. Great imagining and clarity is often an illusion caused by having really sharp treble. I have definitely become a "KZ hater" after trying the ATE, ED9, ZSE and I'm not looking forward to getting my ZS5 shipped. Actually, I just can't wait to see how bad the ZS5s are and post a really negative review on this forum. 

The Marshall Mode is $23 on Amazon right now. It sounds warm and smooth with great imagining and little extra bass for fun. That's my go-to recommendation for a cheap earbud that doesn't sound like hot garbage. 

I don't have any experience with the Hi-Fi man RE 400. It might be worth a shot. The reviews seem really positive. If they do sound "thin", then well, I ain't touching that. 

I am also eyeballing the Final Audio E3000. But it's $55. 

Life is too short for buying lots of cheap earphones that sound too sharp with muffled vocals. So I bought a pair of KEF M100s for $100 Canadian and I couldn't be happier. It's the real deal. But the Marshalls aren't too far behind.


----------



## HiFiChris

JimJames said:


> To be honest I don't. I'm looking into my first hifi system so I didn't want to spend much time looking into some cheap iems. I just saw that both have great imaging and clarity but that the RE 400 might re thinner sounding... If you could give me some better info about it I'd appreciate it!



The RE400 has got a much flatter, more neutral tuning whereas the ZS6's lows are more pronounced. So the ZS6 is bassier. The ZS6 however has also got the (much) more pronounced ~10 kHz range, making it sound more sibilant, thin, metallic and unpleasant most of the time in the upper highs. This can fixed rather easily though, either by applying some EQ or using an impedance adapter (thanks to the ZS6's impedance response), or if your source device isn't super close to a 0 Ohm output by default.

The ZS6 has got the larger, more open soundstage.

Cable-wise, the RE400 sucks. The one that comes with the ZS6 isn't good either, but there are several sub $10 KZ replacement cables with much higher flexibility available for it.


What IEMs are you coming from? Do you already have any experience at all? Chances are that you might find the RE400 perhaps too flat and boring sounding.

Either way, if you want to start with something that is quite neutral, the RE400 wouldn't be a bad choice, while the Brainwavz B100 would be a nice IEM for a fairly balanced IEM with a bit of warmth, whereas the ZS6 would be a a rather v-shaped IEM (elevated bass and highs) with a clarity emphasis in the upper midrange (voices are a bit on the brighter side).


----------



## CoiL

kokakolia said:


> If it were, I'd never ever buy a KZ earphone again unless it's the ED7. I just hate, really hate the sibilance, boosted treble and recessed mids of some of the KZs I tried. Great imagining and clarity is often an illusion caused by having really sharp treble. I have definitely become a "KZ hater" after trying the ATE, ED9, ZSE and I'm not looking forward to getting my ZS5 shipped. Actually, I just can't wait to see how bad the ZS5s are and post a really negative review on this forum.
> 
> The Marshall Mode is $23 on Amazon right now. It sounds warm and smooth with great imagining and little extra bass for fun. That's my go-to recommendation for a cheap earbud that doesn't sound like hot garbage.
> 
> ...



Good to see negative posts. Constructive-criticism is always welcome.
But...
I can not agree with ATE having recessed mids or boosted/sibilant treble - they just aren`t like that! Period. 
We all have different hearing, gear, taste, music(quality) etc. - just be sure when You post negative comments, it is informative (what gear, what music, Your hearing sensitivity etc.).


----------



## xrk971

I am looking for a suitable length of vinyl tuning of similar diameter as the human ear canal to put my calibrated measurement mic in one end and the ZS5v1/2 in the other end.  I have software and amp ready to go. Standard average human ear canal length and diameter affect the resonance dips and peaks so I want to get as close as possible.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Discovered a rather significant flaw of the cheap foams vs the Comply: compression.

The Comply is capable of compressing to an incredibly small size, holding it for a few seconds so you can insert it way deep into the ear prior to it poofing back up. The Bees and another set I have are certainly soft and seal well, but there's no way to insert them so deeply because they won't squash down like the Comply will.


----------



## zozito

Dummy question...those who use complys or comply alike...how much time do you use it before changing for another pair?


----------



## JimJames

HiFiChris said:


> The RE400 has got a much flatter, more neutral tuning whereas the ZS6's lows are more pronounced. So the ZS6 is bassier. The ZS6 however has also got the (much) more pronounced ~10 kHz range, making it sound more sibilant, thin, metallic and unpleasant most of the time in the upper highs. This can fixed rather easily though, either by applying some EQ or using an impedance adapter (thanks to the ZS6's impedance response), or if your source device isn't super close to a 0 Ohm output by default.
> 
> The ZS6 has got the larger, more open soundstage.
> 
> ...


Basically I'm completely new to the whole hifi thing, I come from some sony iems that cost me like 12-20€ and got the ve monks which have  a much better imaging and transparency. I listen to many genres but no metal or electronic (save squarepusher or flying lotus), so maybe I shouldn't worry that much about treble spikes? Or maybe just on some electrical guitars or avantgarde classical music... I'm just looking for some iems that don't leak sound (I'm worried about the seemingly semi open design of the KZ ZS6) cause I'll use them a lot in libraries, comfortable for long periods of time and mostly to sound clear (ideally with a slight touch of warmth) great imaging and I wouldn't expect great things in terms of soundstage from an iem but hey, if it has some I'm all for it. Bass is normally the least thing I need.


----------



## vladstef

JimJames said:


> Basically I'm completely new to the whole hifi thing, I come from some sony iems that cost me like 12-20€ and got the ve monks which have  a much better imaging and transparency. I listen to many genres but no metal or electronic (save squarepusher or flying lotus), so maybe I shouldn't worry that much about treble spikes? Or maybe just on some electrical guitars or avantgarde classical music... I'm just looking for some iems that don't leak sound (I'm worried about the seemingly semi open design of the KZ ZS6) cause I'll use them a lot in libraries, comfortable for long periods of time and mostly to sound clear (ideally with a slight touch of warmth) great imaging and I wouldn't expect great things in terms of soundstage from an iem but hey, if it has some I'm all for it. Bass is normally the least thing I need.



You are essentially describing a single balanced armature IEM, they have no vents to leak sound, below average sound stage but image well enough. I'd say that Hifiman Re400 is quite close to this given that its tuning is more akin to balanced armature than dynamic drivers. ZS5 leaks sound more than average I'd say, ZS6 can only be worse.


----------



## JimJames

Do foam tips help with leakage?


----------



## vladstef

JimJames said:


> Do foam tips help with leakage?



Not really, it happens mostly from the back of the IEM, at least that was my experience. Shells themselves transfer some of the sound, and it only goes up by vents holes.


----------



## kokakolia

JimJames said:


> Basically I'm completely new to the whole hifi thing, I come from some sony iems that cost me like 12-20€ and got the ve monks which have  a much better imaging and transparency. I listen to many genres but no metal or electronic (save squarepusher or flying lotus), so maybe I shouldn't worry that much about treble spikes? Or maybe just on some electrical guitars or avantgarde classical music... I'm just looking for some iems that don't leak sound (I'm worried about the seemingly semi open design of the KZ ZS6) cause I'll use them a lot in libraries, comfortable for long periods of time and mostly to sound clear (ideally with a slight touch of warmth) great imaging and I wouldn't expect great things in terms of soundstage from an iem but hey, if it has some I'm all for it. Bass is normally the least thing I need.



Treble spikes!? You shouldn't be worried at all coming from 20 euro SONY earbuds that sound like a thousand baby orphans being murdered. The treble on these things is so bad it should be illegal. It's no surprise that the VE monk sound wayyyy better. 

I have done some research on the French Amazon and I can recommend the following pairs for 25 euro or less:

- RHA MA 390 (seems promising)
- AKG Y20U (Probably not the biggest bang for your buck)
- Sony MDR EX450 (these ones look promising, they're normally 40 euro and they have positive reviews)


----------



## bsoplinger

mono-type said:


> I myself used to dislike foam tips, as they are a bit of a hassle to put into your ears…
> Also, AFAIK, most people in this thread recommend using ZS6 with the foam tips, that's why I followed their suggestions and decided to buy some imitation T400 tips.


In general I prefer how foam tips feel in my ears but I often can't get a good enough seal to get bass from whatever IEM I'm trying. My issue with foamies with the ZS6 in particular is that they *always* stay behind in my ear canals. Both sides, every time I've tried them. I can't believe that I don't see more people having the same problem. I think I saw 1 mention from somebody. I really think that they need foamies so I'm tempted to try gluing a set onto the nozzles with white (acrylic / Elmer's) glue. 

Am I just the odd man out in regards to this problem?


----------



## chickenmoon

kokakolia said:


> I have done some research on the French Amazon and I can recommend the following pairs for 25 euro or less:
> 
> - RHA MA 390 (seems promising)
> - AKG Y20U (Probably not the biggest bang for your buck)
> - Sony MDR EX450 (these ones look promising, they're normally 40 euro and they have positive reviews)



By research do you mean listening to or just reading about?


----------



## kokakolia

chickenmoon said:


> By research do you mean listening to or just reading about?



Reading. I usually go for forum posts and user reviews. I like subjective detailed reviews.


----------



## chickenmoon

kokakolia said:


> Reading. I usually go for forum posts and user reviews. I like subjective detailed reviews.



Perhaps you shouldn't make recommendations of what you don't actually know how it sounds then.


----------



## khighly

ZS6 worse isolation than ZS5 with the same spin-fits. Having trouble finding positives about these. Better soundstage? I don't know. They just aren't great. They're hurting my ears unlike the ZS5's.

ZS5v1 > ZS6


----------



## mbwilson111

chickenmoon said:


> Perhaps you shouldn't make recommendations of what you don't actually know how it sounds then.



I believe this is mentioned in the posting guidelines.  Maybe it is harder to find that now.?  I managed to find it and read it recently.


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> I believe this is mentioned in the posting guidelines.  Maybe it is harder to find that now.?  I managed to find it and read it recently.





kokakolia said:


> Reading. I usually go for forum posts and user reviews. I like subjective detailed reviews.





chickenmoon said:


> Perhaps you shouldn't make recommendations of what you don't actually know how it sounds then.



It is against posting guidelines, and I can think of one mod in particular that is really not a fan of the behavior.  I'd really write it however as an honest mistake.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 19, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> If it were, I'd never ever buy a KZ earphone again unless it's the ED7. I just hate, really hate the sibilance, boosted treble and recessed mids of some of the KZs I tried. Great imagining and clarity is often an illusion caused by having really sharp treble. I have definitely become a "KZ hater" after trying the ATE, ED9, ZSE and I'm not looking forward to getting my ZS5 shipped. Actually, I just can't wait to see how bad the ZS5s are and post a really negative review on this forum.
> 
> The Marshall Mode is $23 on Amazon right now. It sounds warm and smooth with great imagining and little extra bass for fun. That's my go-to recommendation for a cheap earbud that doesn't sound like hot garbage.
> 
> ...


Y'know, no one else seems to want to say it, so I will...  As you have admitted yourself in the past, you seem to have almost zero respect for the idea of a value proposition, which is a huge part what the KZ thread is all about.  Comparing $6 IEMs to $100 IEMs and if you're *not *wowed by the $100 product there's something seriously wrong with it imo, not the other way around...

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, bring on the bad reviews!  They tend to bring more to the table than flowery schill reviews, at least in my book. 

Also an aside, given your examples, I'm curious if you feel like you're particularly sensitive to ~10kHz?  As the current article on the front page of head-fi points out, people with resonance in that range are fairly uncommon, but certainly not unheard of (but measurement tools frequently tend to have a primary resonance in that area).


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Great work! Reminds me my KZ R35 grind-mod. Would get HDS2 but unfortunately - they are hard to find?!



Wow, you're right. I checked ebay, amazon, Aliexpress, Gearbest...nothing!

Too bad - they aren't nearly as bad as everyone made them out to be when they 1st came out.


----------



## Slater

xrk971 said:


> I am looking for a suitable length of vinyl tuning of similar diameter as the human ear canal to put my calibrated measurement mic in one end and the ZS5v1/2 in the other end.  I have software and amp ready to go. Standard average human ear canal length and diameter affect the resonance dips and peaks so I want to get as close as possible.



Would silicone tubing be better?


----------



## Podster

Well I'm sure Coil will laugh but I've completed my very first surgical procedure May be a butcher job for some on here


----------



## SomeGuyDude

khighly said:


> ZS6 worse isolation than ZS5 with the same spin-fits. Having trouble finding positives about these. Better soundstage? I don't know. They just aren't great. They're hurting my ears unlike the ZS5's.
> 
> ZS5v1 > ZS6



It's sounding to me like you're just really struggling to get them to sit in your ears right. If the isolation is worse, that's almost certainly the culprit. I've got the v1 as well and I ain't going back.


----------



## Slater (Nov 19, 2017)

Podster said:


> Well I'm sure Coil will laugh but I've completed my very first surgical procedure May be a butcher job for some on here



Looks like a fine job to me, CPD.

You like it better sans memory wire?


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> ZS6 worse isolation than ZS5 with the same spin-fits. Having trouble finding positives about these. Better soundstage? I don't know. They just aren't great. They're hurting my ears unlike the ZS5's.
> 
> ZS5v1 > ZS6



Maybe try another tip besides spin fits?

Got any foams you can try just as a test?

Also, did you burn them in?

How about a couple of different sources?

And are you sure they're not out of phase? Did you do the phase tests to make sure, because there have been some KZ *cables* that were wired out of phase themselves, so plugging in the 2-pin connectors the "right way" causes them to go out of phase because the cable is mis-wired?

I'm sure you tried all of the above, but just giving a few helpful suggestions just in case.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Looks like a fine job to me, CPD.
> 
> You like it better sans memory wire?



I do, actually have some more expensive cables I'd like to remove them on but I'd also have to kick my azz if I ruimed on of those!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan (Nov 19, 2017)

I felt like the ZS6 smooth out after 40-50 hours.

Also a great deal for red and black ZS6 at $28.99
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770867.html?wid=21


----------



## Happy Hacking

Podster said:


> Well I'm sure Coil will laugh but I've completed my very first surgical procedure May be a butcher job for some on here



They look fine! Just need some pulling of the TPU plastic for a nicer finish. Good job on the wires though! They are pretty tough to get out (or cut, if you couldnt pull them out).

How do you like them without the memorywire now?


----------



## acia

nozzle cover of the zs5 is gone, do you know anywhere to get it cheap on ebay or taobao please?  and the correct size please?


----------



## vector84 (Nov 20, 2017)

acia said:


> nozzle cover of the zs5 is gone, do you know anywhere to get it cheap on ebay or taobao please?  and the correct size please?


How about aliexpress?
Lot of 10 @ $1.99: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...sh-3-8mm-4mm-4-2mm-4-7mm-5mm/32800734441.html
Lot of 100 @ $6.50: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ones-shell-steel-mesh/923848_32288422871.html
(send a message to the seller along with your order to specify sizes)

As for size, 4.7mm is a perfect fit (I've replaced a few with that size) - but you should check the BA placement in your ZS5 - if the nozzles stick up above the screen lip, you might need to get tricky, as the stock screens are approx 5mm (maybe a touch larger even?) and then edge rolled to fit and get a slight stand off height above the lip.


----------



## RomStar

Hi guys, 
Not to detract from current topics but, just ordered a Toppings NX3 to pair with my iems. Just wondering how well the Zs5 and 6 would pair with them

Also, how goods the DAC on them? I was hoping it'd be a good Dac+Amp solution


----------



## Mellowship

RomStar said:


> Hi guys,
> Not to detract from current topics but, just ordered a Toppings NX3 to pair with my iems. Just wondering how well the Zs5 and 6 would pair with them
> 
> Also, how goods the DAC on them? I was hoping it'd be a good Dac+Amp solution



I hate to break it for you, but the Topping NX3 is only an amplifier, not an integrated DAC-amp. 
http://www.tpdz.net/en/products/nx3/index.htm


----------



## RomStar

Mellowship said:


> I hate to break it for you, but the Topping NX3 is only an amplifier, not an integrated DAC-amp.
> http://www.tpdz.net/en/products/nx3/index.htm


Wow... I specifically asked before purchasing if it had a dac, @Wiljen confirmed it has a DAC (also states as Dac+Amp on selling page)

I also knew it was only an amp and hence wanted a re-confirmation. Is there any easy way of canceling order? Unless is does have a DAC


----------



## Wiljen

Sorry, I read it too and thought it was, guess I should have dug further on it.  Looks like the site has the description for the 4 with the model 3 listed as it shows it as a dac.


----------



## Mellowship

RomStar said:


> Wow... I specifically asked before purchasing if it had a dac, @Wiljen confirmed it has a DAC (also states as Dac+Amp on selling page)
> 
> I also knew it was only an amp and hence wanted a re-confirmation. Is there any easy way of canceling order? Unless is does have a DAC



If it is really the NX3, it doesn't have a DAC. It seems like a good competent amp for the price (around 50-65 USD), though. 

Talk with the seller. If the item has been already sent, you can negotiate some scenarios: 1) you take the NX3 and ask for a partial refund based on the premises you were misinformed on the seller's site; 2) a full refund and you leave the package unclaimed until the post sends it back to the seller. But always talk with the seller out of this situation, in a kind and civilized manner. They will, more frequently then not, abide with your reasoning!


----------



## RomStar (Nov 20, 2017)

Wiljen said:


> Sorry, I read it too and thought it was, guess I should have dug further on it.  Looks like the site has the description for the 4 with the model 3 listed as it shows it as a dac.


Welp, any easy way to cancel order or do I just have to live with it?

I mean, Im planning on using my phone... Unless a dac would benefit me I wouldn't mind using this as a solo amp

Now my phones a note 5 with Wolfson dac, but no clue which model

Edit: @Mellowship nope just ordered now, I'll open negotiations now. But I got it for 67 aud, should I just roll with it or is a dac+Amp optimal in my case? I'll be using my phone since I stream audio, Ty for reply tho


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Hi guys,
> Not to detract from current topics but, just ordered a Toppings NX3 to pair with my iems. Just wondering how well the Zs5 and 6 would pair with them


A quick Google search turns up pretty much nothing useful on this amp.

Output impedance: unknown - can't find anything about this amp, though I would point out that in the past with their other amplifiers, Topping has been both willing and able to provide this value accurately if contacted directly.
Sub-bass roll-off: unknown - FR plot @32 ohms would suggest this *might* be a concern for ZS5v1, but it might not too.

TPA6120 is a concern though (not a deal-breaker necessarily, but a concern) - spec sheet repeatedly states that an under 8 ohm load may cause damage or undesirable effects, so it's often found with a 10 ohm series resistor on the output (though without that resistor, it can get as low as 0.08 or some such)... this seems like it might be a concern for pairing with ZS5v1, *but this is purely spec sheet hunting, zero first hand experience.*


----------



## RomStar

vector84 said:


> A quick Google search turns up pretty much nothing useful on this amp.
> 
> Output impedance: unknown - can't find anything about this amp, though I would point out that in the past with their other amplifiers, Topping has been both willing and able to provide this value accurately if contacted directly.
> Sub-bass roll-off: unknown - FR plot @32 ohms would suggest this *might* be a concern for ZS5v1, but it might not too.
> ...


Ouch...and here I thought it was gonna be a bargain 

Firstly the DAC seems to have been a completely false call and now this :/

I'll just contact them and try and get a refund I guess. I thought it'd be a steal as an dac+Amp and what I gathered from reviews. Too bad the dacs a false alarm 

Cheers for the informative reply as usual ^^


----------



## vector84 (Nov 20, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Ouch...and here I thought it was gonna be a bargain
> 
> Firstly the DAC seems to have been a completely false call and now this :/
> 
> ...


I feel like I should expand a bit on that - usually when a spec sheet says "dangerous or undesirable results" they mean heat... the ZS5v1 isn't going to be pulling enough power to overheat it... so yeah 

Also a quick check on roll-off, guesstimating here, I think it would be around f3(-3dB) = 20 Hz @ 4.8 Ohms (acceptable, but some phase shift occurs? something like that)

The bigger concern imo would be the output impedance, which may or may not be acceptable, depending entirely on the design.
For anything besides the ZS5v1's rather obnoxious 4 ohm load, it looks like it has the potential to be a solid amp, but that would depend on the output impedance configuration.


I wouldn't necessarily write it off due to "possible" problems - seems worth firing off an e-mail to Topping to get the output impedance, at the very least.
(since they actually know what the words "output impedance" mean... which is a rarity among chifi amp makers...)


----------



## HungryPanda

I have NX1 (amp), NX2 (Dac-Amp) and NX5 (Amp) all are decent


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> I have NX1 (amp), NX2 (Dac-Amp) and NX5 (Amp) all are decent



I agree with you that all three have great amp sections but my NX2 is rather weak in the DAC department Much better DAC's in the market especially is he's using it with a phone.


----------



## bsoplinger (Nov 20, 2017)

HungryPanda said:


> I have NX1 (amp), NX2 (Dac-Amp) and NX5 (Amp) all are decent


The newer models NX1s and NX2s are better shielded and don't have the EMF issues. The NX1S has an entire long thread here including a simple fix to extend the flat bass response of the amp down to 20Hz.

Edit: should have added that I have the NX1S and with the fix its a great tiny, cheap amp. Gearbest has the silver one on flash sale for about a week for $30


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> The newer models NX1s and NX2s are better shielded and don't have the EMF issues. The NX1S has an entire long thread here including a simple fix to extend the flat bass response of the amp down to 20Hz.


They have some *amazingly* low noise floors too (3uV) but around 3.5 ohms output impedance. Trade-offs...


----------



## Rilke

So I digged up Aliexpress for the protection case. I finally bought this lady purse for my green zs6







If someone is interested  https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Xini...se-Zipper-Sac-monederos-para/32840820267.html


----------



## kokakolia

vector84 said:


> Y'know, no one else seems to want to say it, so I will...  As you have admitted yourself in the past, you seem to have almost zero respect for the idea of a value proposition, which is a huge part what the KZ thread is all about.  Comparing $6 IEMs to $100 IEMs and if you're *not *wowed by the $100 product there's something seriously wrong with it imo, not the other way around...
> 
> Now that I've gotten that off my chest, bring on the bad reviews!  They tend to bring more to the table than flowery schill reviews, at least in my book.
> 
> Also an aside, given your examples, I'm curious if you feel like you're particularly sensitive to ~10kHz?  As the current article on the front page of head-fi points out, people with resonance in that range are fairly uncommon, but certainly not unheard of (but measurement tools frequently tend to have a primary resonance in that area).



A. If you're flat out broke, or lose your earphones all the time then consider the KZ ED7. It's the only KZ I tried that didn't offend me with shrill treble. Better, it actually impressed me with pretty good soundstage and a relatively balanced sound. It's definitely an earphone I could live with, and that's high praise for $6. Interestingly, I find the more expensive ED9 and ATE much, much worse. And the $6 ZSE just sounds weird in a bad way. 

In my world, a product that doesn't satisfy me is a pure waste of money. It's money I'll never get back. I'll never use these earphones ever if they sound like garbage. Also, the difference between $6 and $100 is mitigated in the long run if you consider the better experience of using the product in terms of sound and comfort, the durability, the accessories (your $6 earphones cost closer to $20 if you buy separate tips, cables and a pouch)...

Also consider the philosophy of buying fewer quality products over many low-quality products. Just buy less stuff! It's better for the environment too. Some people on this forum said that they would rather have a dozen KZ earphones over a $100 pair of earphones. You can't "just own one KZ". 

I also have a steady job so I'm not disgusted to the idea of buying a $100 pair of earphones. Some people may not have that luxury, so KZ earphones might suit them better? In that case, the ED7 would be my recommendation. 

And yet... if they spend just a little more they can get a Marshall Mode on sale around $20. But they're usually $40. And they used to be $100 MSRP at launch. And that's another point that needs to be made: a lot of older earphones that used to sell for $100 now sell for $40 sometimes $20. Earphones are getting so much cheaper these days. And I don't think that $20, heck $40 is a huge expense if you get something truly excellent, with only just a few minor flaws. With KZ it's almost a challenge to see how low the price can be. And they cut a lot of corners that way. You get these annoying rubbery cables, mesh covers that fall off, and the cheapest ear tips available for example.

Overall, I'm just saying that you should purchase the best product for the price you're willing to pay. For me it's $100, because I don't see the point of spending more. They're earbuds for crying out loud! Get speakers if you want to truly experience music. I mean seriously, for about $100 a set of Micca MB42 speakers combined with a Lepa LP-2020A amp will do a far better job at reproducing music than most headphones/earphones under $200.


----------



## HiFiChris

Rilke said:


> So I digged up Aliexpress for the protection case. I finally bought this lady purse for my green zs6
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How's the quality? Judging from the pics, the leather looks rather stiff and brittle, but I might be wrong of course. With the code "AFFLG02", this typical, round, zipped storage bag https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_317791.html with a price of only $0.2 (if the code still works) would be even cheaper though.


----------



## Slater

HiFiChris said:


> How's the quality? Judging from the pics, the leather looks rather stiff and brittle, but I might be wrong of course. With the code "AFFLG02", this typical, round, zipped storage bag https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_317791.html with a price of only $0.2 (if the code still works) would be even cheaper though.



Just a heads up - that code is expired.


----------



## Strat Rider (Nov 20, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> In general I prefer how foam tips feel in my ears but I often can't get a good enough seal to get bass from whatever IEM I'm trying. My issue with foamies with the ZS6 in particular is that they *always* stay behind in my ear canals. Both sides, every time I've tried them. I can't believe that I don't see more people having the same problem. I think I saw 1 mention from somebody. I really think that they need foamies so I'm tempted to try gluing a set onto the nozzles with white (acrylic / Elmer's) glue.
> 
> Am I just the odd man out in regards to this problem?



@bsoplinger,
I tend to have the same problem with the ZS5 leaving tips behind in my ears or on the floor in my office, never to be seen again, .
I find this with foam, and silicon tips even, with those supplied with the iem.
The way I have been able to retain them a bit better to the nozzles is frequent cleaning with a cotton swab, and alcohol.

I haven't tried an adhesive, but a narrow strip of masking tape on a clean nozzle (for texture to hold on to) made a real difference with out adding noticable thickness to the nozzle.

I was hoping this wasn't going to be an issue with the ZS6, since I have some on the way.


----------



## Strat Rider

kokakolia said:


> A. If you're flat out broke, or lose your earphones all the time then consider the KZ ED7. It's the only KZ I tried that didn't offend me with shrill treble. Better, it actually impressed me with pretty good soundstage and a relatively balanced sound. It's definitely an earphone I could live with, and that's high praise for $6. Interestingly, I find the more expensive ED9 and ATE much, much worse. And the $6 ZSE just sounds weird in a bad way.
> 
> In my world, a product that doesn't satisfy me is a pure waste of money. It's money I'll never get back. I'll never use these earphones ever if they sound like garbage. Also, the difference between $6 and $100 is mitigated in the long run if you consider the better experience of using the product in terms of sound and comfort, the durability, the accessories (your $6 earphones cost closer to $20 if you buy separate tips, cables and a pouch)...
> 
> ...



For some, it's about having different sound signatures for different genres, mood, etc. and not putting everything in one pair of listening devices.


----------



## stmiller

TJK81 said:


> Finaly My ZS6's arrived.
> Put braided silver plated cable and foams.
> First impressions... No treble canon or nuke. Bass heavy (more than ZS5v2's) better mids, and less soundstage (compared to ZS5v2's) - IMO because of the little bit tamed treble compared to v2's. Similar imaging and layering... But honeymoon it is in the beginning yet. I noticed the 2pin connector is loosen (not tightly fitted as in the v2). Do you have same experience?





TJK81 said:


> Finaly My ZS6's arrived.
> Put braided silver plated cable and foams.
> First impressions... No treble canon or nuke. Bass heavy (more than ZS5v2's) better mids, and less soundstage (compared to ZS5v2's) - IMO because of the little bit tamed treble compared to v2's. Similar imaging and layering... But honeymoon it is in the beginning yet. I noticed the 2pin connector is loosen (not tightly fitted as in the v2). Do you have same experience?



Hi, that's a nice looking combo. Been looking to get the green ZS6.. While still waiting on my red ordered during 11.11 sale. 
Where did you order yours?


----------



## stmiller

trumpethead said:


> Got my ZS6 from GB in yesterday and upon first listen I thought Oh boy big mistake! Piercing Treble slicing up the eardrums really bad but could hear the potential. Put them on the burner overnight..Bam!! Treble is tamed crystal clear details and resolution. Just enough bass, smooth midrange, fairly well balanced. Really a pleasure now. Can't take them out of my ears. Didn't think the ZS5V1 could be bested at this price but here it is...using generic Alifoams, no other mods..gonna order another pair in Black when the price dips under 20 bucks!!


So burn-in is a must.. 
How long did u burn-in for?


----------



## bsoplinger

Strat Rider said:


> @bsoplinger,
> I tend to have the same problem with the ZS5 leaving tips behind in my ears or on the floor in my office, never to be seen again…


Unfortunately the ZS6 nozzle doesn't even have the abbreviated lip that the ZS5 does. Which is why I keep losing the tips. The little lip on the ZS5 was enough that I didn't lose those. Just a warning. 

The single strip of masking tape idea sounds like a less extreme idea than my glue one so I'll have to try that.


----------



## stmiller

EISENbricher said:


> Been following KZ since they had like 3-4 models at best. It's really wonderful to see how tall they have managed to rise.
> 
> I remember nagging Yue He (KZ Rep on AliExpress) may times to produce products having BA drivers and they did deliver : )    Love my ZS5, will grab ZS6's successor whenever that arrives. Skipping ZS6 for now as it might be a marginal upgrade to ZS5 (and I already have tons of KZ lying around).


Why not sell off the much earlier models to get the newest


----------



## stmiller

Earphone KIng said:


> The new KZ ZS6 are absolutely great! I wrote a review about them. Can guys let me know what you think of it?
> 
> http://earphoneking.com/kz-zs6-review-quad-drivers-blow-away/


With stock cables and tips.


----------



## stmiller

TJK81 said:


> So guys... I spent some time with my 'precious' Andromeda look like ZS6.
> So... where do i have to start...
> Donno... lets start at the *Eivind Aarset* and his '1998' *Électronique Noire*. First tones of the Dark Moisture and... I have never heard so bassy ear/head phones ever in my life... (i know... you have to say... you are living very limited life dude). After about a minute of the intense bass pumpin' everything else appears... beautiful mids and crystal clear highs. And them Entrance / U-Bahn and beloved Lost and Found... So enjoyable and fun to listen to. Maybe I let myself be carried away... in the beginning... I just love the album.
> Next *John Coltrane - Blue trane*... Another beloved album... And *Miles Davis - Sketches of Spain*... Fabolous separation of the each instrument. Every instrument had perfect contour and very accurate tonality. When KZ's producing and manifacturing their ZS6's they tune them listening these jazz albums... Absolutely perfect.
> ...


Wow.. Can't wait for mine (red). 
Pls where did you order the green?


----------



## TheVortex

Only 1 week to arrive from China to the UK?

Let's see how good all of these and that damned memory wire with bluetooth adapter


----------



## stmiller

maxxevv said:


> In X'mas livery ....


Wow, colours really pop


----------



## stmiller

SomeGuyDude said:


> Discovered a rather significant flaw of the cheap foams vs the Comply: compression.
> 
> The Comply is capable of compressing to an incredibly small size, holding it for a few seconds so you can insert it way deep into the ear prior to it poofing back up. The Bees and another set I have are certainly soft and seal well, but there's no way to insert them so deeply because they won't squash down like the Comply will.


Hence their 'affordability'


----------



## TJK81

stmiller said:


> Hi, that's a nice looking combo. Been looking to get the green ZS6.. While still waiting on my red ordered during 11.11 sale.
> Where did you order yours?


Thanks... I purchased the green ZS6 from GB circa one month ago. They are still available on Amazon. Unfortunately only for 50dollars.


----------



## stmiller

TJK81 said:


> Thanks... I purchased the green ZS6 from GB circa one month ago. They are still available on Amazon. Unfortunately only for 50dollars.


Whew $50 is pretty steep.. Guess I'll look to get a black then.


----------



## nkramer

stmiller said:


> Hence their 'affordability'



i'm due to order some more comlpy foams, anybody have any recommendations for a less expensive option? i get T-100 & T-200 in the medium size (the initial compression hold does not matter) as i usually use them till they're falling apart and no longer stay compressed like they did when new.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> Only 1 week to arrive from China to the UK?
> 
> Let's see how good all of these and that damned memory wire with bluetooth adapter



Are those KZ tips the gel foam ones that come with the ATE?


----------



## Slater

TJK81 said:


> Thanks... I purchased the green ZS6 from GB circa one month ago. They are still available on Amazon. Unfortunately only for 50dollars.



Whoa, I snapped up 2 greens when they were at Gearbest for $19.99.

Maybe I should sell them on eBay as soon as they arrive from GB and make a tidy profit?


----------



## xrk971

Slater said:


> Would silicone tubing be better?



Yes, silicone is softer and probably more like a fleshy ear canal and that might affect the impedance peaks!  Maybe a bore hole cut into a piece of steak would be closer to the truth   Actually, they make viscoelastic polymer gel blocks to simulate flesh for gun shot ballistic tests.  That might be a bit cleaner than a chunk of steak! Lol.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Are those KZ tips the gel foam ones that come with the ATE?



I have no idea. I have only tested the bluetooth adapter so far and I am impressed with the sound quality for such little money. I have tried it with all of my KZ's ( ZST, ZS5 V1 and ZS6 ) and only need low volumes to power them on a iphone 5s and Sony Xperia Z5.

I bought them all from gearbest.

I bought the foam for my KZ ZS6 which I will test tomorrow to see if they can tame a bit of the treble but the treble doesn't seem to be as strong as OOTB. The KZ's I own are the ZST, ZS5 V1 and ZS6.


----------



## oyobass

xrk971 said:


> Yes, silicone is softer and probably more like a fleshy ear canal and that might affect the impedance peaks!  Maybe a bore hole cut into a piece of steak would be closer to the truth   Actually, they make viscoelastic polymer gel blocks to simulate flesh for gun shot ballistic tests.  That might be a bit cleaner than a chunk of steak! Lol.


I have seen giant gummy bears used as a substitute for ballistics gel. That might make audio testing a sticky subject, though...


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> Maybe try another tip besides spin fits?
> 
> Got any foams you can try just as a test?
> 
> ...



Yes, I've tried foams, spin fits, starlines, along with a few other unbranded pairs. I do not believe in burn-in. Sources, three. Phase is perfect.

They've gotten better with brain burn in, but still the ZS5v1's are miles ahead.


----------



## khighly

Why does KZ actually put the memory wires in the cables? What KZ? Only a *SMALL MINORITY *seem to like them.

I just got my new upgraded cable and now I have to cut them all up. What a shame. KZ has been annoying me lately.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So here's a question.

If you love the ZS6... where do we go from here? What's the "upgrade" from it? What gives the same experience overall but higher end? The P1 is more neutral, the 1MORE Quad rolls off the high end.


----------



## khighly

SomeGuyDude said:


> So here's a question.
> 
> If you love the ZS6... where do we go from here? What's the "upgrade" from it? What gives the same experience overall but higher end? The P1 is more neutral, the 1MORE Quad rolls off the high end.



Back to ZS5v1 with a little more mids and soundstage, thanks.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

khighly said:


> Back to ZS5v1 with a little more mids and soundstage, thanks.



You mean the ZS5v1 that's been collecting dust on my desk? No thanks.


----------



## bsoplinger

nkramer said:


> i'm due to order some more comlpy foams, anybody have any recommendations for a less expensive option? i get T-100 & T-200 in the medium size (the initial compression hold does not matter) as i usually use them till they're falling apart and no longer stay compressed like they did when new.


I ordered some of those that @Slater suggested but haven't received them yet. I currently prefer the New Bee brand for T500 (5mm) which I buy through Amazon. They're cheaper there than at Gearbest which isn't the first time I've seen that happen (Amazon cheaper or the same price as Gearbest or Aliexpress). I also have generic unbranded foamies from Gearbest that I don't like as much as well as the KZ brand pseudo foamies which once I received them I could understand why nobody likes them. They're not really foam just very squishy very soft plastic. 

Not that it applies to any KZ 'phones that I know of but I like the Rebound brand via Amazon for T100 (3mm nozzle) size. Which has me a bit confused because you mention T100 & T200 (4mm) size tips in the KZ thread but I thought all the KZ products had larger nozzles and use the T500 (5mm) size.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Yes, I've tried foams, spin fits, starlines, along with a few other unbranded pairs. I do not believe in burn-in. Sources, three. Phase is perfect.
> 
> They've gotten better with brain burn in, but still the ZS5v1's are miles ahead.



Looks like you've covered all of your bases!


----------



## Slater

nkramer said:


> i'm due to order some more comlpy foams, anybody have any recommendations for a less expensive option? i get T-100 & T-200 in the medium size (the initial compression hold does not matter) as i usually use them till they're falling apart and no longer stay compressed like they did when new.





bsoplinger said:


> I ordered some of those that @Slater suggested but haven't received them yet. I currently prefer the New Bee brand for T500 (5mm) which I buy through Amazon. They're cheaper there than at Gearbest which isn't the first time I've seen that happen (Amazon cheaper or the same price as Gearbest or Aliexpress). I also have generic unbranded foamies from Gearbest that I don't like as much as well as the KZ brand pseudo foamies which once I received them I could understand why nobody likes them. They're not really foam just very squishy very soft plastic.
> 
> Not that it applies to any KZ 'phones that I know of but I like the Rebound brand via Amazon for T100 (3mm nozzle) size. Which has me a bit confused because you mention T100 & T200 (4mm) size tips in the KZ thread but I thought all the KZ products had larger nozzles and use the T500 (5mm) size.



Yup, those ones I've posted before are an incredible value (20 pairs for ~$7-$8). You won't find a better deal. They have all of the sizes - T100, 200, 300, and 400/500. In multiple colors, and multiple OD sizes (plus included plastic hard case to keep them safe and clean). And you can mix and match for no extra charge. For example, I got some T300 in small (red), some T300 in medium (blue), plenty of T500 in black, white, red, blue (all mediums), etc.

They are the 'same' quality as all of the other wedge tips I've bought from Aliexpress (all fast rebound). My guess is that there's one giant factory in China making all of the foam tips we see on Aliexpress. Sure, they're not identical to Comply, but the value is too big to pass up.

The guy ships pretty fast, and I've ordered multiple times with zero issues.

The only ones that are different (ie slow rebound foam) are the 'ball style' foam tips. But I've only ever seen them in medium and in T500 nozzle size.


----------



## kokakolia

So I just got my KZ ZS5 (V2)...and I don't absolutely hate em'. But they're definitely too sharp in the treble. They have some sibilance. But compared to the ATE or ZSE, you can actually make out what's going on in the music. They remind me most of the Grado SR60i I used to own. It's a weird "W" sound signature, with loads of treble. And it sounds quite thin.


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> So I just got my KZ ZS5 (V2)...and I don't absolutely hate em'. But they're definitely too sharp in the treble. They have some sibilance. But compared to the ATE or ZSE, you can actually make out what's going on in the music. They remind me most of the Grado SR60i I used to own. It's a weird "W" sound signature, with loads of treble. And it sounds quite thin.



Say whaaaat? A KZ you don't absolutely hate?




haha, j/k with you man we love ya


----------



## nkramer

thanks slater.


----------



## acia

where to get the nozzle mesh for the zs5 please??  ebay, taobao also fine!  and what's the correct size of it please?  thank you.


----------



## stmiller

Slater said:


> Whoa, I snapped up 2 greens when they were at Gearbest for $19.99.
> 
> Maybe I should sell them on eBay as soon as they arrive from GB and make a tidy profit?


19.99 for greens?
You're the lucky one, those don't go for less than 40+ on Ali.


----------



## stmiller

khighly said:


> Why does KZ actually put the memory wires in the cables? What KZ? Only a *SMALL MINORITY *seem to like them.
> 
> I just got my new upgraded cable and now I have to cut them all up. What a shame. KZ has been annoying me lately.


I guess because its easier to cut them out than insert into a wire without one ☺️


----------



## stmiller

SomeGuyDude said:


> So here's a question.
> 
> If you love the ZS6... where do we go from here? What's the "upgrade" from it? What gives the same experience overall but higher end? The P1 is more neutral, the 1MORE Quad rolls off the high end.


My guess.. They're gonna keep adding drivers. 
ZS7 (3ba+2dd), reviews will handle the rest


----------



## Selenium

Has anyone heard the Macaw GT600s? The ZS6 sounds similar to the older GT100s so maybe the GT600s or Pro will be an upgrade. Might be more of a sidegrade though...


----------



## RvTrav

I have both the ZS6 and Macaw GT600s.  I really like the ZS6 including the treble.  In  my opinion the GT600s is definitely an upgrade.  The GT600s has a much wider sound stage and instrument separation is better.  The bass on the GT600s is very good but the ZS6 has more but it is not necessarily better quality.  The treble on the GT600s is close to or equal in brightness to the ZS6, again I like the treble on both.  I've found a bright treble is something I have gotten used to and learned to enjoy.  The GT600s is more balanced than the ZS6.  Build quality and accessories are also better with the GT600s.  In my opinion the ZS6 at under $30 is really hard to beat but yes I believe the GT600s to be a definite upgrade.


----------



## stmiller

I'm really suprised no other Chinese iem manufacturers have tried to beat KZ at their own game. 

We could really do with others getting in on the budget multi-driver iem niche.


----------



## Selenium

RvTrav said:


> I have both the ZS6 and Macaw GT600s.  I really like the ZS6 including the treble.  In  my opinion the GT600s is definitely an upgrade.  The GT600s has a much wider sound stage and instrument separation is better.  The bass on the GT600s is very good but the ZS6 has more but it is not necessarily better quality.  The treble on the GT600s is close to or equal in brightness to the ZS6, again I like the treble on both.  I've found a bright treble is something I have gotten used to and learned to enjoy.  The GT600s is more balanced than the ZS6.  Build quality and accessories are also better with the GT600s.  In my opinion the ZS6 at under $30 is really hard to beat but yes I believe the GT600s to be a definite upgrade.



Wow awesome, didn't expect for anyone to be able to chime in on that one so soon. So the GT600s has a much wider soundstage huh? The ZS6 already has a really wide stage...wider than almost all my more expensive stuff. So that would be impressive indeed.

Do you have the regular GT600s or the Pro?


----------



## RvTrav

I just have the regular GT600s.


----------



## Adide

How is Pro different?


----------



## Selenium (Nov 21, 2017)

Adide said:


> How is Pro different?



I dunno, but it sure is purty.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

On these things, the "pro" version usually has upgraded components.


----------



## loomisjohnson

mbwilson111 said:


> I actually got the Senzer H1 because of Vidal's positive review.  I had not thought about it for sleeping.  Just checked the fit...sticks out too far for side sleeping.


+1. at less than $15 the senzer is exceptionally good value unless you're treble-sensitive


----------



## bartzky

Who wore it better? 










Also did a German review including some measurements if anyone's interested: headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs6/


----------



## Willber

Hi all, I am back into the IEM fold after an excursion through earbuds, portables and over-ears.

I have just ordered a ZS6 and want to buy some foam tips following recommendations on here. Could someone please tell me what bore size is needed, please.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Willber said:


> Hi all, I am back into the IEM fold after an excursion through earbuds, portables and over-ears.
> 
> I have just ordered a ZS6 and want to buy some foam tips following recommendations on here. Could someone please tell me what bore size is needed, please.



T500 size, so look for roughly a 5mm. The New Bees 5-7mm fits perfectly.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I have just ordered a ZS6 and want to buy some foam tips following recommendations on here. Could someone please tell me what bore size is needed, please.



Am I the only one who is happy with the Starlines that came with the ZS6?


----------



## Willber (Nov 21, 2017)

@*SomeGuyDude* 

Great, thanks.


----------



## Happy Hacking

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I the only one who is happy with the Starlines that came with the ZS6?



They're really comfortable and easy to put on compared to foams for me. But the shrieking trebles forced foams on mine. Maybe after more use and burn-in I will put the starlines back to see how it fares.


----------



## Willber

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I the only one who is happy with the Starlines that came with the ZS6?


I haven't received them yet but I'm covering all bases.


----------



## mbwilson111

Happy Hacking said:


> They're really comfortable and easy to put on compared to foams for me. But the shrieking trebles forced foams on mine. Maybe after more use and burn-in I will put the starlines back to see how it fares.



I don't hear shrieking treble.  More extended treble for sure than on some of my gear but beautifully done for me.  I don't know how to describe it but it puts me into an "otherworldly " zone that gives me moments that kind of knock the wind out of me for a moment.  One night I could not stop listening for 5 hours as album after album played. I don't dare put them in for a "quick" listen.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't hear shrieking treble.  More extended treble for sure than on some of my gear but beautifully done for me.  I don't know how to describe it but it puts me into an "otherworldly " zone that gives me moments that kind of knock the wind out of me for a moment.  One night I could not stop listening for 5 hours as album after album played. I don't dare put them in for a "quick" listen.



+1


----------



## Selenium

bartzky said:


> Who wore it better?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lots of talk of "concentration camps" in your review...is  that how KZ makes these so cheap?


----------



## Capmad03

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I the only one who is happy with the Starlines that came with the ZS6?


I actually quite enjoy the stock starlines and use them when I'm at home listening. At work, in the loud environment, I do prefer foams to block out some of the external noise


----------



## Willber

I use EQ so it's more of a comfort and sealing issue for me when I choose tips.


----------



## oyobass

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I the only one who is happy with the Starlines that came with the ZS6?


I can't get a decent seal with the starlines. If I do, it is only for a moment. If I move, swallow or chew, the seal is instantly broken. In order for me to get a solid seal, I need to use large New Bee foams or similar, turned around backwards.

I can get a seal with a few silicone tips. The best so far are from a set of single BA Ultimate Ears from ten or more years ago, but they are not very consistent, and turn the ZS6 into treble cannons.


----------



## jaydm99

I use and love Starlines too, on both my ZS3 and ZS5 v1. Though on the ZS5, I can only get a good seal with the largest pair and I have to insert it pointing slightly upwards.


----------



## mbwilson111

oyobass said:


> I can't get a decent seal with the starlines. If I do, it is only for a moment. If I move, swallow or chew, the seal is instantly broken



I am lucky that I usually can get a seal with Starlines...I have used them on a few that came with the commonly used generic tips.  However the other night I tried Starlines on my Memt X5 and the tips came off in my ear. That was weird.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

For me it's less seal and more sound. I listen to metal and hip hop, plus fairly loudly, and the starlines just end up with a gnarly treble spike.


----------



## ivo001

Well damn, my KZ upgrade cable from 11.11 AE order has arrived, but i'm still waiting on the KZ5 i bought at Gearbest on 8.11


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> I can't get a decent seal with the starlines. If I do, it is only for a moment. If I move, swallow or chew, the seal is instantly broken. In order for me to get a solid seal, I need to use large New Bee foams or similar, turned around backwards.
> 
> I can get a seal with a few silicone tips. The best so far are from a set of single BA Ultimate Ears from ten or more years ago, but they are not very consistent, and turn the ZS6 into treble cannons.



Sounds like you gave some enormous ear canals!

You ever try triple flange Xmas trees? Also, I think JVC makes the Spiral Dots in XL.


----------



## oyobass

ivo001 said:


> Well damn, my KZ upgrade cable from 11.11 AE order has arrived, but i'm still waiting on the KZ5 i bought at Gearbest on 8.11


Free shipping on Gearbest is worth exactly what you pay for it. 

I tried free shipping as an experiment. Ordered a set of ZSTs for my daughter Oct 25th (free shipping). Wife got wind of it and wanted some, ordered hers Oct 30, (cheapest tracked airmail). My wife has been enjoying hers for weeks, Daughter thinks I'm a liar and didn't order hers. Hopefully they'll arrive soon...


----------



## bsoplinger

oyobass said:


> I can't get a decent seal with the starlines. If I do, it is only for a moment. If I move, swallow or chew, the seal is instantly broken. In order for me to get a solid seal, I need to use large New Bee foams or similar, turned around backwards.
> 
> I can get a seal with a few silicone tips. The best so far are from a set of single BA Ultimate Ears from ten or more years ago, but they are not very consistent, and turn the ZS6 into treble cannons.


So you put the foamies on with the rounded end towards the IEM and the wide base goes in your ear?

Sounds a bit odd but since I have fit issues with any type of tip I'll have to give this a try. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Sounds like you gave some enormous ear canals!
> 
> You ever try triple flange Xmas trees? Also, I think JVC makes the Spiral Dots in XL.


Triple flange were my go-to before I discovered Comply-type tips. Used on the UE, (before a drummer busted the socket on the removable cable fitting). Used on M6 and M6 Pro, (the Comply tips included with the M6 Pro made a convert out of me though.)

On the KZs, the triple flanges sound congested, I think because the center tube inside diameter is smaller than the end of the nozzle.


----------



## stmiller

ivo001 said:


> Well damn, my KZ upgrade cable from 11.11 AE order has arrived, but i'm still waiting on the KZ5 i bought at Gearbest on 8.11


Free shipping takes for ever


----------



## oyobass

bsoplinger said:


> So you put the foamies on with the rounded end towards the IEM and the wide base goes in your ear?
> 
> Sounds a bit odd but since I have fit issues with any type of tip I'll have to give this a try. Thanks for the suggestion.


You can see how it looks on my avatar pic.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

hi friends, have any coupom discount to this products:?

KZ ZST - Black and colormix
ZS ES3 Purple/black
KZ 3 Pair Sponge In-ear Earbud for Earphones - BLACK 2
KZ EVA Earphones Accessory Zipper Box

thank you


----------



## oyobass

oyobass said:


> You can see how it looks on my avatar pic.


Changes the sound signature slightly, a bit brighter than the right way around, but not nearly as bright as silicones. I like the way they sound backwards.

Hmmm... If I listen to the Beatles Revolution #9 with the foams in backwards, do I hear "Paul is dead, miss him, miss him" and "Turn me on, dead man" instead of what it says with them forwards????


----------



## bartzky

Selenium said:


> Lots of talk of "concentration camps" in your review...is  that how KZ makes these so cheap?


KZ really is an unfortunate abbreviation, especially in Germany. I can tell you a lot of people in German forums felt a bit uncomfortable to use this abbreviation when KZ's IEMs started to gain attention. I bet if they were named differently they would be more popular in Germany.


----------



## CoiL

Looking @ headflux graphs ZST vs. ZS6 ...ZS6 still seems no-go for me. ZST without mods is already over highs tolerance border for me (though I like ZST imaging, soundstage and overall signature), can`take even more boosted highs around 7kHz with ZS6. And my "philosophy" with IEM is less stuff on the way of DD/BA, the better it is. Been steering away from all those "foam mods and tips" for long time now. Actually I`m wondering if I should try soundmagic E50C because graphs compared to ZST and ZS6 are much more promising.


----------



## Strat Rider

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I the only one who is happy with the Starlines that came with the ZS6?


I actually like the starlings, not hard for me to get a good deal, isolation is good for my office work. ...Not too much.
Oh yeah one other thing, they vent well enough, I don't feel like I'm removing a toilet plunger when I remove them from my ears.


----------



## bartzky

@CoiL you can find my other measurements here including some more KZs. Let me know if you like other overlays.


----------



## nkramer

Strat Rider said:


> I actually like the starlings, not hard for me to get a good deal, isolation is good for my office work. ...Not too much.
> Oh yeah one other thing, they vent well enough, I don't feel like I'm removing a toilet plunger when I remove them from my ears.



LOL. no kidding. unfortunately i know the feeling....


----------



## mbwilson111

Strat Rider said:


> Oh yeah one other thing, they vent well enough, I don't feel like I'm removing a toilet plunger when I remove them from my ears.



You have perfectly described that feeling!  LOL


----------



## TheVortex

Just after a brief testing with the new bee foams with the ZS6 and I am quite happy with them also seems like burn-in is indeed real?

I don't hear any sibilance with them and have had over 20 hours worth of use so far. 

The new bee foams grip the shaft better as it is 2 parts where as the official KZ do not.


----------



## oyobass

TheVortex said:


> Just after a brief testing with the new bee foams with the ZS6 and I am quite happy with them also seems like burn-in is indeed real?
> 
> I don't hear any sibilance with them and have had over 20 hours worth of use so far.
> 
> The new bee foams grip the shaft better as it is 2 parts where as the official KZ do not.


I found the same effect, both with burn-in and New Bee foams.


----------



## oyobass

I just tried the decade old UE silicone tips on my ZSTs, switching from the New Bee foams. Bass is both stronger and more defined. The treble is stronger, (not necessarily a good thing, but not bad at all...).
Soundstage has improved as well. They now sound more exciting. With the ZSTs they seem to stay put in my ears much better, due to the shape of them compared to the ZS6/ZS5
These differ from the starlines in that they are wider, thicker and softer. The thickness holds the softer material against my ear canal better, I'm guessing.

... so what I'm saying is that they are both softer and more firm?  I guess there is a magic paradox going on here, and I likes it.


----------



## Tapyok

Can you guys recomend the best kz product for movie watching on mobile phone or tablets.. for daily comute...thanks!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I don't actually have mine in hand yet, so take this with a grain of salt, but based off of what I have read the ZS6 has the most soundstage and for me, that's the deciding factor in a movie headphone.


----------



## Tapyok

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I don't actually have mine in hand yet, so take this with a grain of salt, but based off of what I have read the ZS6 has the most soundstage and for me, that's the deciding factor in a movie headphone.



Thanks for the insight!... thats where i'm leaning at aswell... but i was getting confused since, i read, that the zs3 is good aswell because of the deeper bass and very bright signature...


----------



## vector84

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I don't actually have mine in hand yet, so take this with a grain of salt, but based off of what I have read the ZS6 has the most soundstage and for me, that's the deciding factor in a movie headphone.


Mmm, my takeaway from reading this thread would be that impressions seem pretty split, sort of along these lines:
a) hear the ZS5(v1) as having a huge sound stage, and the ZS6 as being considerably smaller, or
b) hear the ZS5(v1) as having an average sized sound stage, and the ZS6 as being much larger


----------



## ipcress

Hello guys,

New to audio, well anything other than listening to MP3s on my mobile.

Hopefully I’ve posted in the right thread….?

I found this site whilst searching for upgrade cables for KZ-ZS5s. I then got side tracked onto lossless formats and DAPs. I started looking at Fiios but there seem to lots of bugs with the UI. I’ve now moved onto the apparently very good Sony NW-ZX300 (hence my wrong thread query). 

Anyway this all leads to my 2 questions?

1.      Will the S5s run ok on the Sony or would I need to get a more “Premium” set of IEM even to appreciate listening to FLAC files?

2.      If I got a 4.4 Balanced cable for the ZS5s would they work ok on the NW-ZX300 Balanced output, do you think there would be any noticeable difference SQ with ZS5s?

As I said I’m just starting out in audio, I really like the idea of trying lossless and I’m happy to spend on a decent player, but would like to have a play without committing to high end IEMs too.

Any advice gratefully received.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

vector84 said:


> Mmm, my takeaway from reading this thread would be that impressions seem pretty split, sort of along these lines:
> a) hear the ZS5(v1) as having a huge sound stage, and the ZS6 as being considerably smaller, or
> b) hear the ZS5(v1) as having an average sized sound stage, and the ZS6 as being much larger


Is it clear that there is a way to order a ZS5 V1? I don't see "V1" or "V2" listed on any of the ads for the ZS5....that's why I said the ZS6, they just want to know  whats a good KZ for movies, not go down a ChiFi rabbit hole trying to find the optimal sub category for themselves...in my opinion


----------



## vector84

ipcress said:


> 1.      Will the S5s run ok on the Sony or would I need to get a more “Premium” set of IEM even to appreciate listening to FLAC files?


Ehm... how "premium" a set of cans needs to be is... something you would have to decide for yourself... can the Sony drive a set of ZS5s?  A quick glance at what little specs are available for the Sony - pairing with a ZS5v1 might have limited volume before clipping in SE mode (but might not too, hard to say without more information), plenty of power in balanced output most likely.


> 2.      If I got a 4.4 Balanced cable for the ZS5s would they work ok on the NW-ZX300 Balanced output, do you think there would be any noticeable difference SQ with ZS5s?


If it is power limited in SE mode to the point of clipping, going balanced should likely be a very significant improvement.  If not... well balanced has some very clear advantages from a technical standpoint, but how much (or if even) most people can actually hear them in a real world setting is a much more hotly debated topic. 


> As I said I’m just starting out in audio, I really like the idea of trying lossless and I’m happy to spend on a decent player, but would like to have a play without committing to high end IEMs too.


Well... I think a lot of people would tell you that that's a bit of a backwards way to think about it, and that $600 cans + $20 source would be a better experience than $20 cans and a $600 source.  But again, that's really something you'd have to decide for yourself...


----------



## vector84 (Nov 21, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Is it clear that there is a way to order a ZS5 V1? I don't see "V1" or "V2" listed on any of the ads for the ZS5....that's why I said the ZS6, they just want to know  whats a good KZ for movies, not go down a ChiFi rabbit hole trying to find the optimal sub category for themselves...in my opinion


That's a very fair point, but I would counter with the ZS5v2 having the same internals as the ZS6 
(because no, white boxes will be v2, but black boxes could still be either, as evidenced by poor @hakuzen trying to get a v2 so many times now)


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Tapyok said:


> Thanks for the insight!... thats where i'm leaning at aswell... but i was getting confused since, i read, that the zs3 is good aswell because of the deeper bass and very bright signature...


I know for my over ear headphones the ones I far prefer for movies are the ones with the widest soundstage treble extension and bass are less important to me. 
as an example I always use my SHP9500s for movies and live music...but my Akai 50X(which have a similar sound signature to the ZX3) are for hip hop.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 21, 2017)

.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 21, 2017)

Tapyok said:


> Can you guys recomend the best kz product for movie watching on mobile phone or tablets.. for daily comute...thanks!





Cruelhand Luke said:


> I don't actually have mine in hand yet, so take this with a grain of salt, but based off of what I have read the ZS6 has the most soundstage and for me, that's the deciding factor in a movie headphone.


On a less technical and more relevant note to the question:  Personally I could care a lot less about sound stage than vocal clarity for movies and TV - and that's an area where I feel like the ZS5 does... pretty poorly.  Despite the utterly expansive soundstage, they're certainly never my choice for movie watching due to the huge 5kHz presence cut that degrades vocal clarity sigificantly for me.
(I would quite literally pick *anything* else I own over the ZS5v1 for movies and TV).


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

vector84 said:


> That's a very fair point, but I would counter with the ZS5v2 having the same internals as the ZS6
> (because no, white boxes will be v2, but black boxes could still be either, as evidenced by poor @hakuzen trying to get a v2 so many times now)


I would have said the ZS5, except they didn't say "best, at the best price"...they jsut said "what's the best" and since you can be assured of the internals of the ZS6, and it is supposed to be a little more comfortable....I guess I stand by my first suggestion.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

vector84 said:


> On a less technical and more relevant note to the question:  Personally I could care a lot less about sound stage than vocal clarity for movies and TV - and that's an area where I feel like the ZS5 does... pretty poorly.  Despite the utterly expansive soundstage, they're certainly never my choice for movie watching due to the huge 5kHz presence cut that degrades vocal clarity sigificantly for me.
> (I would quite literally pick *anything* else I own over the ZS5v1 for movies and TV).


so, ZS6 like I said?


----------



## vector84 (Nov 22, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> so, ZS6 like I said?


As far as I can tell the ZS6 has an even bigger presence/clarity cut?  But I don't have them to compare. 

Mind you I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your suggestion - if sound stage for movies/TV is your thing, then your suggestion seems spot on. 
My priorities are just quite different, so I figured I'd toss out an alternative point of view (I'd take a ZS3 over a ZS5 for movies/TV any day).


----------



## xrk971 (Nov 22, 2017)

I have spent several days commuting with the new ZS5v2's and have come to the conclusion that I do not like the sound.  Sibilant and too forward and worst of all, "phasey" sounding.  This has to do with the lack of temporal alignment of the different frequencies. It is subtle, but if you are sensitive to it, very annoying.  By contrast, I put the ZS5v1's back on and it's like a heaven compared to the v2.  Sad really, a product upgrade that ruined the product.

Anyhow, I am back on to ZS5v1's (good thing I bought 2 pairs to have a backup handy).

I just got a Cayin N3 and using that and my NHB Pocket Class A amp to drive the ZS5v1's - superb sounding combo.  This SE Class A amp apparently drives a 5ohm load just fine.  Yep, ZS5v1's measured 5ohms average impedance with my DATS impedance tester.  I really like the form factor of the N3 - goes well with the Pocket Amp.


----------



## CoiL

bartzky said:


> @CoiL you can find my other measurements here including some more KZs. Let me know if you like other overlays.


Thanks! Wonder if You bother to take another measurement of ZS6 after some "burn-in" time to see if there are differences?


vector84 said:


> Mmm, my takeaway from reading this thread would be that impressions seem pretty split, sort of along these lines:
> a) *hear the ZS5(v1) as having a huge sound stage*, and the ZS6 as being considerably smaller, or
> b) hear the ZS5(v1) as having an average sized sound stage, and the ZS6 as being much larger


I`m in the camp with bold text. But! - You need to have low output impedance source and little amping to achieve this  ZS5v1 is very picky about source and needs some amping to sound best.


vector84 said:


> On a less technical and more relevant note to the question:  Personally I could care a lot less about sound stage than vocal clarity for movies and TV - and that's an area where I feel like the ZS5 does... pretty poorly.  Despite the utterly expansive soundstage, they're certainly never my choice for movie watching *due to the huge 5kHz presence cut that degrades vocal clarity sigificantly* for me.
> (I would quite literally pick *anything* else I own over the ZS5v1 for movies and TV).


Interesting, haven`t had problem in that area with my pair of ZS5v1.


xrk971 said:


> I have spent several days commuting with the new ZS5v2's and have come to the conclusion that I do not like the sound.  Sibilant and too forward and worst of all, "phasey" sounding.  This has to do with the lack of temporal alignment of the different frequencies. It is subtle, but if you are sensitive to it, very annoying.  By contrast, I put the ZS5v1's back on and it's like a heaven compared to the v2.  Sad really, a product upgrade that ruined the product.
> 
> Anyhow, I am back on to ZS5v1's (good thing I bought 2 pairs to have a backup handy).
> 
> I just got a Cayin N3 and using that and my NHB Pocket Class A amp to drive the ZS5v1's - superb sounding combo.  This SE Class A amp apparently drives a 5ohm load just fine.  Yep, ZS5v1's measured 5ohms average impedance with my DATS impedance tester.  I really like the form factor of the N3 - goes well with the Pocket Amp.


Great to hear someone else having such positive experience with ZS5v1 when properly amped and fed


----------



## ipcress

vector84 said:


> Ehm... how "premium" a set of cans needs to be is... something you would have to decide for yourself... can the Sony drive a set of ZS5s?  A quick glance at what little specs are available for the Sony - pairing with a ZS5v1 might have limited volume before clipping in SE mode (but might not too, hard to say without more information), plenty of power in balanced output most likely.
> 
> 
> If it is power limited in SE mode to the point of clipping, going balanced should likely be a very significant improvement.  If not... well balanced has some very clear advantages from a technical standpoint, but how much (or if even) most people can actually hear them in a real world setting is a much more hotly debated topic.
> ...



Thanks @vector84 The fact that they will work in SE and balanced is the answer I was hoping for.  I appreciate that my source/cans spent is backwards, maybe I'll have to do a rethink. It's just on planet ipcress spending more on the source seems like the right for me to go. 

I can't seem locate a 4.4mm balanced cable at the moment anyway, so it may be a moot point . My search for a 10 dollar KZ upgrade cable, may turn out to be a whole lot more expensive than I thought!

Thanks again


----------



## vector84

ipcress said:


> I can't seem locate a 4.4mm balanced cable at the moment anyway, so it may be a moot point . My search for a 10 dollar KZ upgrade cable, may turn out to be a whole lot more expensive than I thought!


You can use standard 0.78mm 2pin cables on most KZs, but once you do, the pin sockets stretch out too far to use stock cables anymore.  Lots of 0.78mm 2pin cables out there though.
You can also reterminate a KZ upgrade cable as they're full 4 wire runs.


----------



## vector84

CoiL said:


> Interesting, haven`t had problem in that area with my pair of ZS5v1.


Mind you that was in the context of movies/TV (and when dealing with vocal clarity issues in low quality recordings in general, I find a ~5kHz presence boost to be very helpful for me )

In the context of music I have a very different experience - I find the lack of a presence boost to push out the sound stage in a rather fun way (I'm also in the ZS5v1 has an almost comically large sound stage camp. )


----------



## ipcress

Yes I've seen that earlier in the thread. 

It's the jack which is the issue they all seem to be 2.5mm not the 4.4mm required for the NW-zx300 balanced output.

As you say reterm an upgrade cable with  a 4.4 jack is another option


----------



## JayceOoi

Yeah... ZS6 @ $24.99 with code - KZZS611 is back again. 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## stmiller

bartzky said:


> KZ really is an unfortunate abbreviation, especially in Germany. I can tell you a lot of people in German forums felt a bit uncomfortable to use this abbreviation when KZ's IEMs started to gain attention. I bet if they were named differently they would be more popular in Germany.


Please explain this to us non germans.


----------



## vector84

stmiller said:


> Please explain this to us non germans.


Konzentrationslager, abbreviated KZ (or KL) ... literally means "concentration camp".


----------



## fuzun

stmiller said:


> Please explain this to us non germans.


Konzentrationslager . It is used for concentration camp I assume.

These newcome liberal Germans really make me cringe.


----------



## Viber

Tapyok said:


> Can you guys recomend the best kz product for movie watching on mobile phone or tablets.. for daily comute...thanks!



That would be the ZS3. It has the best isolation so you'll have your privacy even in quiet scenes. Imaging is good and soundstage is decent on that set.

ATR has superior imaging and more universal fit, but a bit inferior bass,loudness and isolation.


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 22, 2017)

fuzun said:


> Konzentrationslager . It is used for concentration camp I assume.
> 
> These newcome liberal Germans really make me cringe.



I always prefer a liberal to a apologist


----------



## stmiller

vector84 said:


> Konzentrationslager, abbreviated KZ (or KL) ... literally means "concentration camp".


I see.. an unfortunate coincidence.


----------



## HerrWallen

*Off-topic alert:*



fuzun said:


> These newcome liberal Germans really make me cringe.



Keep in mind that Germany also have some pretty specific laws in place to prohibit the use of symbols (or propaganda) of unconstitutional organizations, I presume as a result of the nazi-era. 
I can only assume that any reference to the holocaust probably bear a very special (and sad) meaning in a country historically associated with it and I fail to see whats cringeworthy or new about that.

That kind of sentiment only helps to dehumanize that terrible part of our history.


----------



## bartzky

CoiL said:


> Thanks! Wonder if You bother to take another measurement of ZS6 after some "burn-in" time to see if there are differences?


I'll do so. The measurements you see on headflux were done pretty much out of the box, less than one hour playtime at least. I guess there won't be any changes at all, but how many hours are the  recommended burn-time?


----------



## Podster

stmiller said:


> I see.. an unfortunate coincidence.



In deed and IMO the Germans still build some of the finest products in the world, there are a Nation full of pride and I'm sure most would have chosen not to be associated with the few followers of the nut job! Hmm, now what does this remind me of 

Well dug in to an old retired box last night and pulled out the tiny HDS1 and I believe it was Slater stating it was a good sleeper and he was correct, not the highest in resolution or bass thump but what does the sleeping mind know anyway


----------



## paulindss

Everyday i come back here antecipating any news or release date of zsr


----------



## Podster

paulindss said:


> Everyday i come back here antecipating any news or release date of zsr



Like Paul Masson, KZ will offer no iem before it's time jkjk


----------



## loomisjohnson

Tapyok said:


> Can you guys recomend the best kz product for movie watching on mobile phone or tablets.. for daily comute...thanks!


the zs3 aren't the best sounding kz, but they definitely isolate the best and would be good for movies--lots of bass


----------



## Slater (Nov 22, 2017)

vector84 said:


> On a less technical and more relevant note to the question:  Personally I could care a lot less about sound stage than vocal clarity for movies and TV - and that's an area where I feel like the ZS5 does... pretty poorly.  Despite the utterly expansive soundstage, they're certainly never my choice for movie watching due to the huge 5kHz presence cut that degrades vocal clarity sigificantly for me.
> (I would quite literally pick *anything* else I own over the ZS5v1 for movies and TV).



I agree. Instead of focusing on soundstage, I try to find neutralish or mid centric/mid forward for movies. Deep v shaped are too scooped out in the midrange/vocals, which forces me to turn up the volume so I can hear the low volume/whispering/silent parts. The problem is then during explosions, car crashes, pew pew shooting, or musical scores, the sub-bass practically blows my eardrums out.

The double edged sword of sound stage is that they almost always have poor isolation (generally due to open or semi-open design), which when commuting or in a noisy place is detrimental.

The other thing is for movies I prefer cable down designs, because they are less bulky (easier to pack and carry, generally more comfortable, and if there’s an interruption like the phone, someone speaking to you, etc you can pop them in/out easier/faster.

So if it was me, I would go for something neutral or possibly w shaped. KZ doesn’t offer much by way of that, but something like Bosshifi B3 or Urbanfun HiFi would be my pick.


----------



## kokakolia

Tapyok said:


> Can you guys recomend the best kz product for movie watching on mobile phone or tablets.. for daily comute...thanks!



Just buy anything really. 

Keep in mind that over-ear earphones like the ZS5 are kinda annoying to take on and off. The foam tips make it even worse. The ZS5 is no doubt a good earphone. But the treble is too much. It makes me tired. 

Also, I think that the ZSE, ATE and ED9 sound like garbage even if they cost less than $10. 

However, the ED7 is quite amazing considering the price of about $7. 

Also, I'm wondering about the Xiaomi earphones. But I have no experience with them.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> In deed and IMO the Germans still build some of the finest products in the world, there are a Nation full of pride and I'm sure most would have chosen not to be associated with the few followers of the nut job! Hmm, now what does this remind me of
> 
> Well dug in to an old retired box last night and pulled out the tiny HDS1 and I believe it was Slater stating it was a good sleeper and he was correct, not the highest in resolution or bass thump but what does the sleeping mind know anyway



The mod I recently did was the HDS2, but I also tried the HDS3 and found it suitable for (most) sleepers as well (depending on ear size).

Unfortunately, my HDS1 are long gone, and I never used them for sleep.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Podster said:


> Like Paul Masson, KZ will offer no iem before it's time jkjk


holy smokes you gotta be old to make that reference. ( I'M not old, I get it because I'm an Orson Welles fan.  )


----------



## Podster (Nov 22, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> holy smokes you gotta be old to make that reference. ( I'M not old, I get it because I'm an Orson Welles fan.  )



As evidenced in @Slater 's reply above I knew it was an HDS model but since I have the 1 I was thinking 1 and lack of total recall missed the HDS2 (Slater the HDS2 was the most disappointing KZ for me to date or course we know everyone's mileage is different), thought your shortening mod was neat but I would not have wasted my time on that thing @Cruelhand Luke , guess I am old as my oldest son will be 39 in Feb. "Ain't Life Grand" Nice to see a young man appreciating Mr. Wells. One of the most recognizable voices in cinema for me

@loomisjohnson It is my opinion that KZ's attention to bass period is why they have such a strong following of course price also is in that equation


----------



## Aevum

The biggest surprise i got out of KZ so far ? plugged the BT adaptor in to my Trinity Audio phantom masters 4, sounds good, actually sounds brilliant. 

Only issue is that the BT adaptor lags like hell, sound is almost a second after the video. but for simple listening is great.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Podster said:


> As evidenced in @Slater 's reply above I knew it was an HDS model but since I have the 1 I was thinking 1 and lack of total recall missed the HDS2 (Slater the HDS2 was the most disappointing KZ for me to date or course we know everyone's mileage is different), thought your shortening mod was neat but I would not have wasted my time on that thing @Cruelhand Luke , guess I am old as my oldest son will be 39 in Feb. "Ain't Life Grand" Nice to see a young man appreciating Mr. Wells. One of the most recognizable voices in cinema for me
> 
> @loomisjohnson It is my opinion that KZ's attention to bass period is why they have such a strong following of course price also is in that equation


I was just giving you a hard time, I'm not THAT young myself...I remember seeing those commercials as a kid  and wondering who that tubby old wino was....I later came to appreciate his work and actually felt sorry for him that his career ended like that.


----------



## Podster

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I was just giving you a hard time, I'm not THAT young myself...I remember seeing those commercials as a kid  and wondering who that tubby old wino was....I later came to appreciate his work and actually felt sorry for him that his career ended like that.



Heck I knew you were @Cruelhand Luke and it's true but Orson had so many great quotes as well. One of my favorites to this day is "_We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone." 
By the way I'm also a Paul Newman fan and meant to tell you before I dig your handle there, Capt. and Boss could not break Luke which made him my kind of rebel! Such a great movie and of course Paul was in so many good ones, then George Kennedy and Lou Antonio, Harry Dean Stanton and Ralph Waite before the Walton's Rosenburg knocked it out of the park with Coolhand_ a it's star studded cast


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 22, 2017)

Podster said:


> Heck I knew you were @Cruelhand Luke and it's true but Orson had so many great quotes as well. One of my favorites to this day is "_We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone."
> By the way I'm also a Paul Newman fan and meant to tell you before I dig your handle there, Capt. and Boss could not break Luke which made him my kind of rebel! Such a great movie and of course Paul was in so many good ones, then George Kennedy and Lou Antonio, Harry Dean Stanton and Ralph Waite before the Walton's Rosenburg knocked it out of the park with Coolhand_ a it's star studded cast


I assume that my handle gives away my age somewhat...the first time I saw it I was home sick from school when I was like 9 or 10....clearly it made an impression on me. I've been a fan of Newman's life (not just his movies) ever since.


----------



## Strat Rider

Cruelhand Luke said:


> holy smokes you gotta be old to make that reference. ( I'M not old, I get it because I'm an Orson Welles fan.  )



I get it because I am fortunate enough to live in Northern California, .........and oh yeah, I'm old!


----------



## Slater (Nov 22, 2017)

Podster said:


> As evidenced in @Slater 's reply above I knew it was an HDS model but since I have the 1 I was thinking 1 and lack of total recall missed the HDS2 (Slater the HDS2 was the most disappointing KZ for me to date or course we know everyone's mileage is different), thought your shortening mod was neat but I would not have wasted my time on that thing
> 
> @loomisjohnson It is my opinion that KZ's attention to bass period is why they have such a strong following of course price also is in that equation



In stock form the HDS2 were a big let down (primarily due to the tips). But with tip rolling I found they become quite respectable, especially given the fact that they could at one point be had for $3-$4.

Which, as you pointed out, the ridiculous prices become a big factor in explaining KZ's overall perceived value. It's easy to forgive shortcomings in something that costs the same as a decent cup of coffee. I think this is one of the driving factors in converting hordes of people to become KZ fans. If I had paid $60 for the HDS2, I would have been quite upset.

The HDS3 is definitely the best of the bunch though, although it's not perfect sompared to many other offerings. I'd personally love to see what can be done with an HDS4.


----------



## Slater (Nov 22, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I assume that my handle gives away my age somewhat...the first time I saw it I was home sick from school when I was like 9 or 10....clearly it made an impression on me. I've been a fan of Newman's life (not just his movies) ever since.





Strat Rider said:


> I get it because I am fortunate enough to live in Northern California, .........and oh yeah, I'm old!



Ah, the ads of yesteryear.

Who remembers "What's the word? _Thunderbird! _What's the price? _A dollar twice!"_

Or this gem:



And to keep this on topic, anyone else heard any more news on the ZSR or ZSR Pro? Last I heard, the dealer (Hill Audio) said on their Facebook (or was it Instagram) that there was a delay with the ZSR:

_"Waiting for new KZ launches? Probably gotta be more patient for it then ... ZS4 and ZSR will probably be long still, month end or early November will likely be the new expected launch date."_


----------



## Keller2

Slater said:


> Ah, the ads of yesteryear.
> 
> Who remembers "What's the word? _Thunderbird! _What's the price? _A dollar twice!"_
> 
> ...




ZSR was supposed to be out last febuary.


----------



## Slater (Nov 22, 2017)

Keller2 said:


> ZSR was supposed to be out last febuary.



I think that's just when the original "ZSR Pro" packaging photo was leaked. I don't ever remember seeing a definitive release date back then (unless I missed that).

KZ has always impressed me about how tight-lipped they remain with pretty much everything they have in development. We usually only hear about them right before they are ready to ship (ie just before the pre-order stage).


----------



## Strat Rider

OMG Slater, you are killin me Great references! But just to stay on topic, you know folks, KZ' s actually do pair very well with an inexpensive Chardonnay and oven roasted turkey.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Strat Rider said:


> OMG Slater, you are killin me Great references! But just to stay on topic, you know folks, KZ' s actually do pair very well with an inexpensive Chardonnay and oven roasted turkey.


KZs are versatile indeed, I'm pairing mine with some Long Hammer IPA and things are getting along great!


----------



## Strat Rider (Nov 22, 2017)

On a serious note, after the posts a day ago with @bsoplinger regarding zs5 and zs6, tip fitment, i got home last night, reached into my shirt pocket, and pulled out a cable not with (2)  ZS5 v1 ear pieces, but only 1. I am crushed, but hopeful i will find the missing 1/2 of my iem.

Just to add a little bit of pain on top of that, my order came in today with my Sony Hybrid tips i was ready to roll.

Such is life

My takeaway from this, next time I check to make sure the tips are secure... I'll l be sure to check the cable too!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

paulindss said:


> Everyday i come back here antecipating any news or release date of zsr



Like I said before, considering they've been talking about the ZSR on here for over a year, I'm not in a huge hurry.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke




----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Strat Rider said:


> On a serious note, after the posts a day ago with @bsoplinger regarding zs5 and zs6, tip fitment, i got home last night, reached into my shirt pocket, and pulled out a cable not with (2)  ZS5 v1 ear pieces, but only 1. I am crushed, but hopeful i will find the missing 1/2 of my iem.
> 
> Just to add a little bit of pain on top of that, my order came in today with my Sony Hybrid tips i was ready to roll.
> 
> ...


Dang! that sucks, but your attitude is the only right one to have. Hopefully you find it...if not, that's ok too.


----------



## bsoplinger

Strat Rider said:


> On a serious note, after the posts a day ago with @bsoplinger regarding zs5 and zs6, tip fitment, i got home last night, reached into my shirt pocket, and pulled out a cable not with (2)  ZS5 v1 ear pieces, but only 1. I am crushed, but hopeful i will find the missing 1/2 of my iem.
> … My takeaway from this, next time I check to make sure the tips are secure... I'll l be sure to check the cable too!


Sorry to hear about that. Worse than my 'losing' ear tips since at least I knew to look in my ear canal


----------



## Cruelhand Luke




----------



## young59

Cruelhand Luke said:


>


Yeah same setup ZS3 + newbee silicon.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Tapyok said:


> Can you guys recomend the best kz product for movie watching on mobile phone or tablets.. for daily comute...thanks!


I finally got some of my stuff...I have a ZS5 and a ZS3 (so far) I didn't like the ZS3 for movies. (lacking detail, mids...soundstage felt kinda closed in and wrong ...for movies) 
the ZS5 reminds me of a semi open headphone...I would recommend it for watching movies. In fact, I usually don't like movies on IEMs, but I watched a little bit of Star Wars with these on...and then some Baby Driver...then a little bit of Guardians Of the Galaxy 2....I really liked it, I could totally see myself using these as my movie headphones sometimes! I can lay down and get more comfortable than is possible with my Phillips SHP 9500s and I don't feel like I sacrifice much sound quality.


----------



## JayceOoi

Yeah... KZ ZS6 at even lower price @ $22.99 with GBZS6 code. 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## oyobass

Cruelhand Luke said:


>


Thems purty!
I was looking at your ZS3s with envy for a moment and then it hit me... I have a pair on its way from GearBest. Still looking in envy because, well, they're coming from GearBest on the proverbial slow boat from China.


----------



## Bina

Any tip where to get them cheapest with delivery to China? Taobao seems to be all set on price around 40USD and seems English sites with decent prices doesn't ship to China.


----------



## Arkady Duntov

Strat Rider said:


> OMG Slater, you are killin me Great references! But just to stay on topic, you know folks, KZ' s actually do pair very well with an inexpensive Chardonnay and oven roasted turkey.



I tried it this morning but I was disappointed. The KZs ended up as melted mess.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Arkady Duntov said:


> I tried it this morning but I was disappointed. The KZs ended up as melted mess.


hmmm, did you make sure the cables weren't plugged in wrong?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 23, 2017)

oyobass said:


> Thems purty!
> I was looking at your ZS3s with envy for a moment and then it hit me... I have a pair on its way from GearBest. Still looking in envy because, well, they're coming from GearBest on the proverbial slow boat from China.


The wait is worth it. The only thing wrong with the ZS3s is that I have the ZS5 sitting there on my desk and they do everything the ZS3s do, but better and MORE....don't get me wrong, I love the ZS3, they are really comfortable, look cool, they sound good and they were only $8.00!
oh, and they didn't last a whole day without me modding them...I did that Slater mod where you stab it a bunch with a sewing needle until some foam pops out, seemed to brighten things up a little, so that was good


----------



## Podster

[QUOTE="Arkady Duntov said:


> I tried it this morning but I was disappointed. The KZs ended up as melted mess.



Think the ZS6 is the only one that can stand up to Roasting!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Podster said:


> Think the ZS6 is the only one that can stand up to Roasting!


especially if you are putting it in with the turkey, I mean, a metal IEM shouldn't melt at 350 degrees, right?


----------



## CoiL

Cruelhand Luke said:


>


Beauty.... waiting for mine for modding. 
Where to get those tips? Link please?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

CoiL said:


> Beauty.... waiting for mine for modding.
> Where to get those tips? Link please?


ask and ye shall receive:
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_609044.html
I like these a lot actually. I am using the Silicone (M) on my ZS3 and the Foam (M) on my ZS5. and they come in this cool case so all my "favorite tips" aka most likely to work on various IEMs can be in one place, instead of in the little tin I keep all my tips in. I like organization and order...which this hobby does not lend itself to, so I like having various boxes/tins to keep stuff organized in and the New Bees actually came with a really useful little case.


----------



## iQuest

which KZ model(s) would you recommend to a basshead, i'd like to own such iem, atm i use ATR's since not so long ago my ATE's broke the 2nd batch ones, those were actually much bassier than ATR's


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Did you ever get "into" something before you even were aware it IS a thing?
Turns out I am HARDCORE ChiFi!
I got the ZTE Axon 18 months ago because of it's excellent dac/amp/ Dolby software....then I got a Fiio A3 6 months ago to take it to the next level...and now here I am with my KZ ZS5s and ...I'm all in, I'm straight up ChiFi all day, ERRY DAY!
(I even use a weird little Akai sproingy cable to connect the phone and amp...it's USELESS in every other regard, but it's PERFECT for when you are walking around the house with your phone in one pocket and your amnp in the other...you know, 'normal stuff', like regular people do)
The point is, I should probably go get my "ChiFi 'Till I Die" tattoo once this Thanksgiving Day-day drinking REALLY kicks in...


----------



## wastan

iQuest said:


> which KZ model(s) would you recommend to a basshead, i'd like to own such iem, atm i use ATR's since not so long ago my ATE's broke the 2nd batch ones, those were actually much bassier than ATR's



ZS3


----------



## kokakolia

iQuest said:


> which KZ model(s) would you recommend to a basshead, i'd like to own such iem, atm i use ATR's since not so long ago my ATE's broke the 2nd batch ones, those were actually much bassier than ATR's



The ZS5s have really fun punchy bass but beware of the treble! It's so...excessive! (for lack of a better word).


----------



## kokakolia

I wanna go on a bit of a rant on the KZ ZS5 (V2):

The more I listen to them, the more I'm annoyed. You see, the ZS5 has tonnes of "raw detail" and "raw potential" but it's executed so poorly. The bass is quick and really fun, the mids are just "adequate" if not just moderately recessed and then you have that stupid treble of "DOOM!". The treble is just so loud, abrasive and sibilant. Listening to French rock music is torture, only because the "S" sound is so present in the French language. 

Further, the ZS5 is the most unflattering earphone ever! It has a very bright metallic tonality that just sucks the warmth from the kick drums, string instruments and vocals out. It's like the musical equivalent of an overexposed HD passport photo that accentuates the wrinkles and makes the skin look so pale. The ZS5s are just really good at accentuating the flaws and reproducing tiny details in the music, but they absolutely suck for enjoying the music. The Marshall Mode is actually the polar opposite of the ZS5. It's a delightfully warm and balanced earphone that makes bad recordings sound good. It doesn't sound the most detailed but it sounds so good overall. 

It's as if KZ bought some really good earphone drivers in bulk from an OEM and just slapped them together. Nobody cared to fine tune the ZS5s to make them sound somewhat balanced and enjoyable. I just can't bring myself to believe that the founders of KZ are an ex Audio Technica Engineer and a Classical Musician. Any Classically trained musician would immediately say "Wow! That treble is too much!". It only takes a violin, flute or brass instrument extract to realize that. 

Further, it doesn't make me very optimistic about the KZ brand as a whole. Will their house sound always be this unflattering, bright and sibilant? The ZSE somewhat contradicts this trend. But it just sounds muffled, claustrophobic and congested. 

Presently, I see the KZ ZS5 (V2) as an unfinished product. Perhaps someone can transform these earphones into something truly amazing by modding the max out of them. I'm thinking custom 3d printed shells, dampening materials etc...


----------



## Strat Rider

Cruelhand Luke said:


> especially if you are putting it in with the turkey, I mean, a metal IEM shouldn't melt at 350 degrees, right?


Thats the plus of zs5..... All plastic!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

kokakolia said:


> I wanna go on a bit of a rant on the KZ ZS5 (V2):
> 
> The more I listen to them, the more I'm annoyed. You see, the ZS5 has tonnes of "raw detail" and "raw potential" but it's executed so poorly. The bass is quick and really fun, the mids are just "adequate" if not just moderately recessed and then you have that stupid treble of "DOOM!". The treble is just so loud, abrasive and sibilant.* Listening to French rock music is torture*, only because the "S" sound is so present in the French language.
> 
> ...


You had me at Bon Jour....
I';m not sure what all the rest of that said because...not to be mean, but anyone that listens to French Rock, clearly doesn't share the same interests, values or possibly even a universe as myself. 
I mean...can you even say those two things together and NOT sound sarcastic? 
Listen to it, "French Rock...." sounds like I am being really derisive and snippy, just putting those two words together.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

"hey man, have you heard the new Spoon album?" 
"no, how is it?"
"It's cool, if you like French Rock." 
see what I mean?


----------



## kokakolia

Cruelhand Luke said:


> "hey man, have you heard the new Spoon album?"
> "no, how is it?"
> "It's cool, if you like French Rock."
> see what I mean?




LOL yeah! It's for French speaking people only. But if you're interested, Indochine and Noir Desir are awesome bands.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

When it comes to my French music, I'll take Deathspell Omega, Les Discrets, Blut Aus Nord...


----------



## Adide

Gojira, Johnny Hallyday and so on.
Now maybe let's get back to being excelent to each other as the mods suggest.


----------



## Saoshyant

Cruelhand Luke said:


> "hey man, have you heard the new Spoon album?"
> "no, how is it?"
> "It's cool, if you like French Rock."
> see what I mean?



Did you grab a random band name, as Spoon is Austin based with at least one ex-IBM employee.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Saoshyant said:


> Did you grab a random band name, as Spoon is Austin based with at least one ex-IBM employee.


you think they let me have a name like Cruelhand Luke and I don't know Spoon is an Austin band?


----------



## Podster

Well I'm from Austin, moved to Little Rock in '97 and both my sons are Hogs! What's a Longhorn to do:-0 Brother-In-Law graduated LSU, family is all messed up


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Adide said:


> Gojira, Johnny Hallyday and so on.
> Now maybe let's get back to being excelent to each other as the mods suggest.



Gojira is the tits. Ever seen 'em live?

I wasn't trying to talk smack, either. Just throwing some bands out there that I jam loudly with the ZS6!


----------



## nadezhda 6004

kokakolia said:


> The ZS5s have really fun punchy bass but beware of the treble! It's so...excessive! (for lack of a better word).


Is it possible to equalize the issue?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Is it possible to equalize the issue?



Hell a pair of foam tips tamp it down plenty in my opinion. At least it works on the ZS6, which is apparently really similar to the ZS5v2.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

SomeGuyDude said:


> They might not be for everyone, but I really do think a set of foams puts the ZS6 right where it needs to be. I'm faaaaaar from a treble head.


Hello everyone,
Please share the links from aliexpress.com where you bought foam pads from and they worked well for you.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Hello everyone,
> Please share the links from aliexpress.com where you bought foam pads from and they worked well for you.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...et-Pads-Earpiece-Earbuds-for/32826238044.html

Work like a charm.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 23, 2017)

Podster said:


> Well I'm from Austin, moved to Little Rock in '97 and both my sons are Hogs! What's a Longhorn to do:-0 Brother-In-Law graduated LSU, family is all messed up


Well, I hope you at least didn't wind up with an Aggie in the family.
I went to an Aggie wedding once...did you even know they make Solo cups in maroon and silver?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 23, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Hell a pair of foam tips tamp it down plenty in my opinion. At least it works on the ZS6, which is apparently really similar to the ZS5v2.


I have been listening to my ZS5s (I have V2 I assume...they came in a white box, and no VooDoo seems to be coming out of them, which if you believe the talk around here the V1 has the Voodoo coming out?)
 a LOT the last two days...I have tried several tips and I keep coming back to the foam ones....having said that, I have been wondering where these treble nightmares I keep hearing about are. They are a little sibilant at times and I haven't quite gotten my eq settings where I want them...but overall I don't find them to be super sharp. I have to assume it's because I have been listening with foam tips. The bass is actually pretty satisfying for my tastes, which I'm surprised by. I really enjoy them for hip hop. In fact so far I prefer them to the ZS3 for hip hop.


----------



## vector84

Cruelhand Luke said:


> having said that, I have been wondering where these treble nightmares I keep hearing about are.


To be found in a differently sized ear canal than yours, apparently


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 23, 2017)

I'll be honest, I was worried about adding a bunch of new IEMs and cables and eartips to my desk. I do not like clutter...fortunately I have this hand crafted box that I got at a "thrift" store.
I can't tell you its street value, but I will tell you that when I got it a "One" didn't cover the tab, ok?
I still have a bluetooth cable, some blue foam tips and an ES3 on the way...the Fiio will have to move next door into that green Professional Utility box that holds headphone cables, professionally.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I have been listening to my ZS5s (I have V2 I assume...they came in a white box, and no VooDoo seems to be coming out of them, which if you believe the talk around here the V1 has the Voodoo coming out?)
> a LOT the last two days...I have tried several tips and I keep coming back to the foam ones....having said that, I have been wondering where these treble nightmares I keep hearing about are. They are a little sibilant at times and I haven't quite gotten my eq settings where I want them...but overall I don't find them to be super sharp. I have to assume it's because I have been listening with foam tips. The bass is actually pretty satisfying for my tastes, which I'm surprised by. I really enjoy them for hip hop. In fact so far I prefer them to the ZS3 for hip hop.



I have the V1 as well as the ZS6. I reeeeeeeally prefer the 6.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

vector84 said:


> To be found in a differently sized ear canal than yours, apparently


Probably very true. I'll be honest, the ZS5 with foam tips have actually educated me on the fact that my ear holes are different sizes and angles. My left one is a dream, it takes any tip I throw at it and I get to just hear how the tip itself affects the music...the right ear? So PICKY. Some tips just don't go...it's weird. 
But I am 100% convinced the diameter of your ear canal could be the deciding factor in how you hear particular sound frequencies....one could be physically barred from enjoying a particular IEM. 
As an analogy, I have driven a thousand different cars, literally. I sold them for 10 years and I drove them all...my all time favorite car is the Miata. For a number of reasons, but one of the really big factors, at my height/weight the Miata fits me as if it was made for me, and it has perfect 50/50 weight distribution so I have never felt more in touch with or connected to a car. 
I imagine an IEM that you jab in your ear is subject to the same unintended consequences of ergonomics


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

SomeGuyDude said:


> I have the V1 as well as the ZS6. I reeeeeeeally prefer the 6.


See, that's the thing about Voodoo, to release it, you need the proper matching amp and silvergolden braided cables (Alienexpress has em i think)


----------



## vector84 (Nov 23, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I imagine an IEM that you jab in your ear is subject to the same unintended consequences of ergonomics


Resident guy whose knowledge base of such things goes way over most of our heads @xrk971 commented on some of the technicalities he suspects are involved about a month ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807650
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807779
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1612#post-13809558


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

vector84 said:


> Resident guy whose knowledge base of such things goes way over most of our heads @xrk971 commented on some of the technicalities he suspects are involved about a month ago:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807650
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807779
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1612#post-13809558


I appreciate others doing the heavy philosophical lifting, while I benefit by skimming skimming skimming threads until the group reaches conclusions like: foam tips tame treble...
and then I do that.


----------



## stmiller

How does the z6 respond to amping? Does it exaggerate that ..ssssSS?


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## CoiL (Nov 24, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> ask and ye shall receive:
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_609044.html
> I like these a lot actually. I am using the Silicone (M) on my ZS3 and the Foam (M) on my ZS5. and they come in this cool case so all my "favorite tips" aka most likely to work on various IEMs can be in one place, instead of in the little tin I keep all my tips in. I like organization and order...which this hobby does not lend itself to, so I like having various boxes/tins to keep stuff organized in and the New Bees actually came with a really useful little case.


Thanks. Actually I thought those silicones had foam inside but no. Otherwise I already have this kind silicone tips, so, no need for them.
Btw, is there some cheap silicone S size tips that use foam under skirt by stock without modding?



vector84 said:


> Resident guy whose knowledge base of such things goes way over most of our heads @xrk971 commented on some of the technicalities he suspects are involved about a month ago:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807650
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807779
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1612#post-13809558


Very useful posts by @xrk971 . Thanks for collecting such posts.
Kinda confirms my own practical test results and philosophy of having less as possible obstacles in way of eardrum-membrane distance.


----------



## vector84

stmiller said:


> How does the z6 respond to amping? Does it exaggerate that ..ssssSS?


Exaggerate sibilance?  Doubtful? but going from a higher output impedance source to a lower one might? or something like that?


----------



## Adide

SomeGuyDude said:


> Gojira is the tits. Ever seen 'em live?



Yes I did, this past summer.



SomeGuyDude said:


> I wasn't trying to talk smack, either. Just throwing some bands out there that I jam loudly with the ZS6!



I know dude.


----------



## oyobass

Cruelhand Luke said:


> The wait is worth it. The only thing wrong with the ZS3s is that I have the ZS5 sitting there on my desk and they do everything the ZS3s do, but better and MORE....don't get me wrong, I love the ZS3, they are really comfortable, look cool, they sound good and they were only $8.00!
> oh, and they didn't last a whole day without me modding them...I did that Slater mod where you stab it a bunch with a sewing needle until some foam pops out, seemed to brighten things up a little, so that was good


Thanks, I came to this thread a bit after that. Googled ES3 Slater mod and got right to the correct place.
I'll give this a try after a good burn in period. I bought one because, well it was 8 bucks and supposedly has superior isolation. The looks certainly don't hurt either...
If I can get them sounding decent, I intend to use them as stage monitors. The ZS6 has great sound quality, but the isolation is a little too little to defend myself against loud drummers and guitar amps. It also leaks sound enough to let the click track we play to in one band be heard by the audience in the front rows.


----------



## ivo001

kokakolia said:


> LOL yeah! It's for French speaking people only. But if you're interested, Indochine and Noir Desir are awesome bands.



Lazuli and Alcest


----------



## CoiL

vector84 said:


> Resident guy whose knowledge base of such things goes way over most of our heads @xrk971 commented on some of the technicalities he suspects are involved about a month ago:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807650
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1605#post-13807779
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1612#post-13809558





ivo001 said:


> Lazuli and Alcest


Alcest has one song I really like to use one of my many sound test songs. Don`t remember song name atm.


----------



## ivo001

Why is AE free shipping so much better than Gearbest free shipping? Got 3 out of my 4 AE 11.11 orders, and my 08.11 Gearbest order is still not showing up :/



CoiL said:


> Alcest has one song I really like to use one of my many sound test songs. Don`t remember song name atm.


Autre Temps?


----------



## nxnje

Can someone (who owns kz zs3) help me with my problem?
It really hurts my ears but that's not the worst of the problems.
The real problem is that the right in ead perfectly fits while the left one doesn't, creating me a VACUUM feeling that ruins my sounds, moreover when i turn my head.
I can't really find a good position for the left in ear while i can push and move freely the right one without problems.
Can someone tell me how to calm the ear hurting from them and to find my comfortable position? Maybe you tried some solutions that worked.


----------



## fuzun

A question to who has both SHP9500(s) and ZS5v2 or ZS6.

SHP9500 defines my treble limit. How is the treble of ZS5v2 or ZS6 compared to shp9500?


----------



## kokakolia (Nov 24, 2017)

fuzun said:


> A question to who has both SHP9500(s) and ZS5v2 or ZS6.
> 
> SHP9500 defines my treble limit. How is the treble of ZS5v2 or ZS6 compared to shp9500?



If the treble on the SHP 9500 is an 8, then the treble on the ZS5 V2 is a 15. Yeah, the treble on the ZS5 V2 is STOOPID!

I too have the SHP 9500. I don't mind it too much. But I haven't used them as much since I got my KEF M100.


----------



## RvTrav

nxnje said:


> Can someone (who owns kz zs3) help me with my problem?
> It really hurts my ears but that's not the worst of the problems.
> The real problem is that the right in ead perfectly fits while the left one doesn't, creating me a VACUUM feeling that ruins my sounds, moreover when i turn my head.
> I can't really find a good position for the left in ear while i can push and move freely the right one without problems.
> Can someone tell me how to calm the ear hurting from them and to find my comfortable position? Maybe you tried some solutions that worked.



I had the same problem and what I found worked for me was to place a spacer on before the tip.  This makes the tip sit out a little more and I was able to use a size smaller ear tip. I use small washers I purchased at a hardware store but you can make your own spacers by cutting a thin slice off a tip that you won't be using.  I have added some pictures.  You can see in the last picture the earphone on the left has a spacer and the one on the right doesn't.  Hope this works for you.


----------



## kokakolia

ivo001 said:


> Lazuli and Alcest



That's more metal! 

I'm listening to more lyrical stuff like Rita Mitsuko and Superbus.


----------



## young59

nxnje said:


> Can someone (who owns kz zs3) help me with my problem?
> It really hurts my ears but that's not the worst of the problems.
> The real problem is that the right in ead perfectly fits while the left one doesn't, creating me a VACUUM feeling that ruins my sounds, moreover when i turn my head.
> I can't really find a good position for the left in ear while i can push and move freely the right one without problems.
> Can someone tell me how to calm the ear hurting from them and to find my comfortable position? Maybe you tried some solutions that worked.


Try different sizes and different tips I was having the same problem I had to set the ZS3 just right or it would just sound wrong.


----------



## fuzun

kokakolia said:


> If the treble on the SHP 9500 is an 8, then the treble on the ZS5 V2 is a 15. Yeah, the treble on the ZS5 V2 is STOOPID!
> 
> I too have the SHP 9500. I don't mind it too much. But I haven't used them as much since I got my KEF M100.


Hmm but did you use foam tips with ZS5v2?


----------



## nxnje

RvTrav said:


> I had the same problem and what I found worked for me was to place a spacer on before the tip.  This makes the tip sit out a little more and I was able to use a size smaller ear tip. I use small washers I purchased at a hardware store but you can make your own spacers by cutting a thin slice off a tip that you won't be using.  I have added some pictures.  You can see in the last picture the earphone on the left has a spacer and the one on the right doesn't.  Hope this works for you.




Could you please tell me the name of those washers or how to find em? 
The zs3 are really hurting my ears atm.. i can't enjoy listening for the moment


----------



## kokakolia

fuzun said:


> Hmm but did you use foam tips with ZS5v2?



I used the default tips only. Because I find foam tips super annoying. But a foam tip can only do so much! I have been using foam tips on the ATE for similar reasons.


----------



## nkramer

nxnje said:


> Can someone (who owns kz zs3) help me with my problem?
> It really hurts my ears but that's not the worst of the problems.
> The real problem is that the right in ead perfectly fits while the left one doesn't, creating me a VACUUM feeling that ruins my sounds, moreover when i turn my head.
> I can't really find a good position for the left in ear while i can push and move freely the right one without problems.
> Can someone tell me how to calm the ear hurting from them and to find my comfortable position? Maybe you tried some solutions that worked.



One word.... foam.
Same or better isolation, more comfort, less sweat, and when you remove the earpiece it doesn't feel like removing your brain with a toilet plunger through your ear (that was so perfectly mentioned earlier in this thread)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

stmiller said:


> How does the z6 respond to amping? Does it exaggerate that ..ssssSS?



Opposite, IMO. At least depending on amp. ZS6 with a Mojo is just godly.


----------



## nxnje

nkramer said:


> One word.... foam.
> Same or better isolation, more comfort, less sweat, and when you remove the earpiece it doesn't feel like removing your brain with a toilet plunger through your ear (that was so perfectly mentioned earlier in this thread)



Do they even solve the ear hurting? I mean.. the sick feeling wearing them


----------



## nkramer (Nov 24, 2017)

You mean the pressure in the ear canal. Yes. The foam is not as "solid" as the silicone or rubber. But if you have small ear canals any phones with this size nozzles may be troublesome, especially if you are trying to insert them deeply into the canal.

I've found that because of the shape of the shells (zs3, zst, only ones I have), length & width of nozzles these phones sit a lot shallower than something with a smaller diameter nozzle. (Others I have: etymotic er6i, westone 1)

So, if you try foams & you're still finding them uncomfortable, look for something with a smaller diameter nozzle.


----------



## RvTrav

nxnje said:


> Could you please tell me the name of those washers or how to find em?
> The zs3 are really hurting my ears atm.. i can't enjoy listening for the moment



You can try foams as suggested.  I personally don't like them.  The rubber washers are also called "O" rings.  I am from Canada and purchased them at Rona which is a big box hardware/lumber store like Home Depot.  I have included some photos on how to make your own.  Use an ear tip that you won't be needing slide in onto something round.  I use a screw driver.  Fold the tip edges back then use a sharp knife to cut a thin ring  You should be able to get 3 rings out of 1 ear tip.  This is something you can try at no cost and you are not going to have go out and purchase foam tips.  If this doesn't work for you then you can try the foams.

.


----------



## Podster

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Well, I hope you at least didn't wind up with an Aggie in the family.
> I went to an Aggie wedding once...did you even know they make Solo cups in maroon and silver?



LOL, one of my best friends from High School is an Aggie as a matter a fact his whole family is. His kids are almost done as well. Even with them in the SEC now they still annoy me, he sent me pictures last week as they took a picture with Jackie Sherrill (that was pretty cool for them)


----------



## Slater (Nov 24, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> I wanna go on a bit of a rant on the KZ ZS5 (V2):
> 
> The more I listen to them, the more I'm annoyed. You see, the ZS5 has tonnes of "raw detail" and "raw potential" but it's executed so poorly. The bass is quick and really fun, the mids are just "adequate" if not just moderately recessed and then you have that stupid treble of "DOOM!". The treble is just so loud, abrasive and sibilant. Listening to French rock music is torture, only because the "S" sound is so present in the French language.
> 
> ...





nadezhda 6004 said:


> Is it possible to equalize the issue?



Here you go: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Thanks. Actually I thought those silicones had foam inside but no. Otherwise I already have this kind silicone tips, so, no need for them.
> Btw, is there some cheap silicone S size tips that use foam under skirt by stock without modding?



DIY:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1647#post-13829756
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/foam-stuffed-hybrid-tips.623949/

Pre-made:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mandarines-foam-ear-tips-perfection.807565/


----------



## Slater (Nov 24, 2017)

nxnje said:


> Can someone (who owns kz zs3) help me with my problem?
> It really hurts my ears but that's not the worst of the problems.
> The real problem is that the right in ead perfectly fits while the left one doesn't, creating me a VACUUM feeling that ruins my sounds, moreover when i turn my head.
> I can't really find a good position for the left in ear while i can push and move freely the right one without problems.
> Can someone tell me how to calm the ear hurting from them and to find my comfortable position? Maybe you tried some solutions that worked.



If playing around with tips doesn't help solve the problem, it's possible that 1 of the vents is clogged with glue. This happens from time to time on some KZs. It's easy to push a small sewing pin into the vent hole to clear past the glue.


----------



## Willber

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Is it possible to equalize the issue?


Works for me. I use EQ for all my phones (IEMs, earbuds, portables, over-ears).


----------



## wastan

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I went to an Aggie wedding once...did you even know they make Solo cups in maroon and silver?


 
Was the bride holstein or gurnsey?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> If playing around with tips doesn't help solve the problem, it's possible that 1 of the vents is clogged with glue. This happens from time to time on some KZs. It's easy to push a small sewing pin into the vent hole to clear past the glue.



I can't understand what you mean
Could you please show me with a pic or a photo what should i do? 
Thanks a lot for the help


----------



## wastan

nxnje said:


> Can someone (who owns kz zs3) help me with my problem?
> It really hurts my ears but that's not the worst of the problems.
> The real problem is that the right in ead perfectly fits while the left one doesn't, creating me a VACUUM feeling that ruins my sounds, moreover when i turn my head.
> I can't really find a good position for the left in ear while i can push and move freely the right one without problems.
> Can someone tell me how to calm the ear hurting from them and to find my comfortable position? Maybe you tried some solutions that worked.



Have you tried rotating them slightly one you think you have them in? They seem to fit only a precise way and if you try to force it any other way it's very uncomfortable.


----------



## nxnje

wastan said:


> Have you tried rotating them slightly one you think you have them in? They seem to fit only a precise way and if you try to force it any other way it's very uncomfortable.



Yes i have tried many positions and every position misses something
If i push them a lil bit out, i can hear well but less bass and less isolation
If i push them in isolation is nice, bass is really strange, quite horrible and it seems like i'm in a vacuum tube.
If i rotate them i don't even hear basses in certain ways, and it seems like i will never find a good position for them.
I really dunno what to do as i really love how they sound.. their low frequencies are absolutely crazy


----------



## Vytautas (Nov 24, 2017)

Hi,

could you please help me to make a set of nice sounding budget headphones with a smallest possible budget? I am new to this hobby. Headphones will be mainly used with *Dragonfly v1.0c* DAC feed from PC (Linux OS).

Now I am testing KZ ZS5 v1 on my system. It seems that KZ5 v1 are too sensitive despite they have 30% lower sound output than other KZ models. I usually keep volume just at 10-20%. So, which ZS5 version - higher impedance (v2) or lower impedance (v1) is *better to use with Dragonfly*?

*A set of headphones* - have spend some time to made as narrow list as possible tried to group into some categories:

1. Earbuds: EMX500 - 8.5 eur
2. Large stage, classical and acoustic music: KZ ZS 5 (with bass and treble fixes suggested by Slater) - 15 eur + 10 eur for braided cable and New Bee ear tips.
3. Casual listening, warm, more bass, street (with player) - KS ZS3 with Slater mod - 6.8 eur or KZ ES3 - 8.5 eur or Swing IE800 - 10.5 eur.
4. Movies, balanced - not too often: Sound Intone E6+ (lower sensitivity, any good and just enough?) - 5.5 eur or Urbanfun Hi-Fi MARK II (Beryllium) - 18.5 eur.

Which options makes most sense? What should be fixed on the list?

I don't listen to electronic, bass heavy music too often (< 20% of time).

Thank you!


----------



## nkramer

are you planning on getting a pair for each of your 4 categories?
why get 4 pair of mediocre headphones, when you could spend the same (or less) on a really decent pair and use them for everything?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Vytautas said:


> Hi,
> 
> could you please help me to make a set of nice sounding budget headphones with a smallest possible budget? I am new to this hobby. Headphones will be mainly used with *Dragonfly v1.0c* DAC feed from PC (Linux OS).
> 
> ...



ZS5v2 by far with your tastes. The Bees will tamp down the extra treble but they'll have better high end and soundstage compared to the sloped-off v1 and they'll just sound great.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

fuzun said:


> A question to who has both SHP9500(s) and ZS5v2 or ZS6.
> 
> SHP9500 defines my treble limit. How is the treble of ZS5v2 or ZS6 compared to shp9500?


I have both and I don't find the ZS5 to have TWICE as much treble as the 9500s as some have suggested. I have NVX flats (with foam attenuators) on my 9500s and foams on my ZS5 so keep in mind, I have already done treble taming measures on both...without direct a/b yet, it seems like the ZS5 are definitely more sibilant (I only have about 20 hours of break in on the ZS5) but I don't find them to have insane piercing treble...they are on par with the 9500s....a little brighter by like 25% but in the same basic category in terms of sharpness. 
I will A/B the ZS5s with some of my favoriite over ears this weekend if you want more detailed info


----------



## fuzun

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I have both and I don't find the ZS5 to have TWICE as much treble as the 9500s as some have suggested. I have NVX flats (with foam attenuators) on my 9500s and foams on my ZS5 so keep in mind, I have already done treble taming measures on both...without direct a/b yet, it seems like the ZS5 are definitely more sibilant (I only have about 20 hours of break in on the ZS5) but I don't find them to have insane piercing treble...they are on par with the 9500s....a little brighter by like 25% but in the same basic category in terms of sharpness.
> I will A/B the ZS5s with some of my favoriite over ears this weekend if you want more detailed info


Considering ZS5s have much more bass than shp9500s, treble should not be much of a problem. In worst case, it should bother as much as shp9500s.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 24, 2017)

fuzun said:


> Considering ZS5s have much more bass than shp9500s, treble should not be much of a problem. In worst case, it should bother as much as shp9500s.


listening to the ZS5s right now. I really enjoy the bass...it's pretty well defined and accurate...I listen to a lot of stuff with stand up bass where it's enjoyable to 'hear' the movement of those long strings..(Soul Coughing/Mike Doughty....as one really obvious example, the bassline in Lou Reeds Walk on the Wild Side, or anything off of the Violent Femmes first album) and the Zs5s reproduce those sounds pretty well...not as good as my Fidelio L2s for example, but....I have NO complaints about the bass on the ZS5...I'm trying to figure out how to deal with the sibilance, but the bass is pretty satisfying.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

fuzun said:


> Considering ZS5s have much more bass than shp9500s, treble should not be much of a problem. In worst case, it should bother as much as shp9500s.


to clarify, are you talking about 9500s with stock pads or some version of HM5 pads? Those are two different headphones. I can't compare either in stock form...in modified form ZS5 (foam tips) has more bass, but not a _lot_ more than a 9500s with HM5 pads.
There is some weird difference in the sound signature that I want to track down this weekend...yesterday I had on the ZS5, I took them off and put on the 9500s and it seemed like there was something kind of missing from the sound ...almost like the 9500s took the sound and tried to stretch it over too much soundstage...but I wasn't sitting and critically listening, it was a transitory observation...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 24, 2017)

The ZS5 are a REALLY engaging headphone. I haven't seen this mentioned a lot but there is something about the way that the ZS5 presents sound that really hooks me. I have only had them a few days, but every time I have a chance to put them on and give them a listen I wind up spending hours with them on.
I'll be frank, I have ADD, I bounce around a lot, I'm lucky in life, I am not tied to doing a lot of things I don't want to, so it takes something pretty compelling to hold my interest for any length of time....I
For example? I was recently given a Gibson SG ( replica  ) and a Peavey amp and am I'm learning to play an instrument for the first time at 48 years old...that's SUPER INTERESTING and I can spend four hours playing a D chord.....the ZS5s are about as engaging and as much as a time machine (as in: I jump ahead 4 hours) and as fun as that guitar.
they are the kind of headphones that lend themselves to going down rabbit holes...


----------



## bsoplinger

In my quest for tip that work for me I once again stumbled upon a remark about foam filled silicone tips. But this time some was helpful enough to provide links to some of the original discussions. The one suggestion of buying some of the ultra cheap Chinese foamies without the inner more rigid plastic tube that goes over the nozzle. Then cutting them short and placing them inside the silicone tip sounds great. Way easier than buying ear plugs and boring a large enough hole by hand, etc. 

But I'm having a hard time finding those ultra cheap foamies in less than a 100 pair quantity. I really don't need $35 worth of cheap foamies. Can anyone help me out here? A half dozen pairs or just a single S, M and L assortment would be good enough for proof of concept. Perhaps @Slater can help me out? He seems to have links to everything!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

bsoplinger said:


> In my quest for tip that work for me I once again stumbled upon a remark about foam filled silicone tips. But this time some was helpful enough to provide links to some of the original discussions. The one suggestion of buying some of the ultra cheap Chinese foamies without the inner more rigid plastic tube that goes over the nozzle. Then cutting them short and placing them inside the silicone tip sounds great. Way easier than buying ear plugs and boring a large enough hole by hand, etc.
> 
> But I'm having a hard time finding those ultra cheap foamies in less than a 100 pair quantity. I really don't need $35 worth of cheap foamies. Can anyone help me out here? A half dozen pairs or just a single S, M and L assortment would be good enough for proof of concept. Perhaps @Slater can help me out? He seems to have links to everything!


Just do the right thing.....,. and buy $35.00 of weird chinese foam, then send some of it to whoever asks you to, for the next however many years until you run out of foam...like Tyler Durden would do.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Cruelhand Luke said:


> The ZS5 are a REALLY engaging headphone. I haven't seen this mentioned a lot but there is something about the way that the ZS5 presents sound that really hooks me. I have only had them a few days, but every time I have a chance to put them on and give them a listen I wind up spending hours with them on.
> I'll be frank, I have ADD, I bounce around a lot, I'm lucky in life, I am not tied to doing a lot of things I don't want to, so it takes something pretty compelling to hold my interest for any length of time....I
> For example? I was recently given a Gibson SG ( replica  ) and a Peavey amp and am I'm learning to play an instrument for the first time at 48 years old...that's SUPER INTERESTING and I can spend four hours playing a D chord.....the ZS5s are about as engaging and as much as a time machine (as in: I jump ahead 4 hours) and as fun as that guitar.
> they are the kind of headphones that lend themselves to going down rabbit holes...


and hip hop is crazy fun on them, since nobody asked.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 24, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> In my quest for tip that work for me I once again stumbled upon a remark about foam filled silicone tips. But this time some was helpful enough to provide links to some of the original discussions. The one suggestion of buying some of the ultra cheap Chinese foamies without the inner more rigid plastic tube that goes over the nozzle. Then cutting them short and placing them inside the silicone tip sounds great. Way easier than buying ear plugs and boring a large enough hole by hand, etc.
> 
> But I'm having a hard time finding those ultra cheap foamies in less than a 100 pair quantity. I really don't need $35 worth of cheap foamies. Can anyone help me out here? A half dozen pairs or just a single S, M and L assortment would be good enough for proof of concept. Perhaps @Slater can help me out? He seems to have links to everything!


KZ Gel Foams fit that description and GearBest has been throwing up $0.99 deals on them left and right recently.

Can probably find them on ali too of course.



George-gearbest said:


> KZ 3 Pair Sponge In-ear Earbud for Earphones
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605421.html?lkid=10690141
> 
> ...


This is still active btw.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> I can't understand what you mean
> Could you please show me with a pic or a photo what should i do?
> Thanks a lot for the help



Please excuse the low quality photo.

Do you see where the needle is pointing in this photo? There is a very small round hole. It helps vent pressure when you put the IEM in your ear. If this hole is clogged it can cause problems such as driver flex and "positive pressure" when you insert the IEM in your ear.

Push the tip of a small needle down into that hole to make sure it is clear.

Let me know if you have any additional questions, and please let us know if that solves your problem!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Please excuse the low quality photo.
> 
> Do you see where the needle is pointing in this photo? There is a very small round hole. It helps vent pressure when you put the IEM in your ear. If this hole is clogged it can cause problems such as driver flex and "positive pressure" when you insert the IEM in your ear.
> 
> ...


it helps to read Slaters posts in a German Scientist voice.
"Do you see ver the needle is POINTING!?" try reading them that way, and see if that helps...


----------



## c4rb0n

Sir @Slater are the Slow Rebound Tips from NICEHCK good? I just ordered a lot a while ago lol


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> In my quest for tip that work for me I once again stumbled upon a remark about foam filled silicone tips. But this time some was helpful enough to provide links to some of the original discussions. The one suggestion of buying some of the ultra cheap Chinese foamies without the inner more rigid plastic tube that goes over the nozzle. Then cutting them short and placing them inside the silicone tip sounds great. Way easier than buying ear plugs and boring a large enough hole by hand, etc.
> 
> But I'm having a hard time finding those ultra cheap foamies in less than a 100 pair quantity. I really don't need $35 worth of cheap foamies. Can anyone help me out here? A half dozen pairs or just a single S, M and L assortment would be good enough for proof of concept. Perhaps @Slater can help me out? He seems to have links to everything!



Here you go chief: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...m-memory-foam-eartips-for-in/32732040972.html

You pick the color, the model (T500 for ZS5/ZS6, or Txxx for blah blah), and the OD size (S,M,L). You can also do any combination as well. All come in a plastic case.

Ordered numerous times from that seller; never had a problem.


----------



## Slater (Nov 24, 2017)

c4rb0n said:


> Sir @Slater are the Slow Rebound Tips from NICEHCK good? I just ordered a lot a while ago lol



Are you talking about the "ball" shaped foam tips? Like these:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8pa...w-Rebound-Eartips-For-In-Ear/32605250267.html

If so, they are awesome tips. Every bit as good of quality as Comply, and they are very soft and comfortable to boot.


----------



## c4rb0n

Slater said:


> Are you talking about the "ball" shaped foam tips?
> 
> If so, they are awesome tips. Every bit as good quality as Comply, and they are very soft and comfortable to boot.


Yes sir the Oval one, i got it for 7.99 usd i think, glad to hear that sir and thanks for the info on these first hand


----------



## vector84

Slater said:


> Here you go chief: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...m-memory-foam-eartips-for-in/32732040972.html
> 
> You pick the color, the model (T500 for ZS5/ZS6, or Txxx for blah blah), and the OD size (S,M,L). You can also do any combination as well. All come in a plastic case.
> 
> Ordered numerous times from that seller; never had a problem.


Those have cores, didn't @bsoplinger want the core-less ones? 
(but you can carefully tear out the core and when you do, they fit easier over wider silicone tips, rather than having to stretch a KZ foamie over them)


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Here you go chief: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...m-memory-foam-eartips-for-in/32732040972.html
> 
> You pick the color, the model (T500 for ZS5/ZS6, or Txxx for blah blah), and the OD size (S,M,L). You can also do any combination as well. All come in a plastic case.
> 
> Ordered numerous times from that seller; never had a problem.


this is my next order man. thanks...I am just getting used to my IEMs and figuring out which tips I need before I order....but I have had the link saved for a while.


----------



## Slater (Nov 25, 2017)

vector84 said:


> Those have cores, didn't @bsoplinger want the core-less ones?
> (but you can carefully tear out the core and when you do, they fit easier over wider silicone tips, rather than having to stretch a KZ foamie over them)



Oh, @bsoplinger wanted coreless? Sorry I missed that part (it's late LOL).

Coreless are here, but I have no personal experience with them. A couple mention slow rebound foam, which are preferable IMO.

(S eartip size) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...ips-Slow-Rebounding-Silicone/32732801818.html
(Title says L eartip size) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...Earbuds-Eartips-for-Sony-Mdr/32761611025.html
(M eartip size) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...rbud-Bud-Tips-Earbuds-eartips/1052204391.html
(UNKNOWN eartip size, but appears to be M) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Noi...r-Earphone-High-Quality-Q1FC/32820556143.html
(M eartip size) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-P...one-Covers-Tips-For-Earphone/32477581172.html
The KZs gel tips that come with the ATE are hard as a rock. Definitely NOT slow rebound. I don't know how any of the above compare. The first set I linked claim to be KZ.

If it was me I would try the 3rd link down, as there is the most reviews (and cool color choices LOL). The 5th link down looks good too.
_
Update: I just ordered the 3rd link down. I'm tired of punching lopsided holes in foam earplugs, and I figure I need to try out what I'm recommending LOL_


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> this is my next order man. thanks...I am just getting used to my IEMs and figuring out which tips I need before I order....but I have had the link saved for a while.



Which IEMs are you considering those tips for buddy?


----------



## Vytautas (Nov 25, 2017)

empty


----------



## Vytautas

Could you please suggest if lower sensitivity / volume headphones could be better with Dragonfly v1.0c? It seems that ZS5 v2 could be the best. ANY other good chooses for Dragonfly v1.0c DAC?



SomeGuyDude said:


> ZS5v2 by far with your tastes. The Bees will tamp down the extra treble but they'll have better high end and soundstage compared to the sloped-off v1 and they'll just sound great.



Thank you!



nkramer said:


> are you planning on getting a pair for each of your 4 categories?
> why get 4 pair of mediocre headphones, when you could spend the same (or less) on a really decent pair and use them for everything?



The only ONE is OK.


----------



## Slater

Vytautas said:


> Could you please suggest if lower sensitivity / volume headphones could be better with Dragonfly v1.0c? It seems that ZS5 v2 could be the best. ANY other good chooses for Dragonfly v1.0c DAC?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> The only ONE is OK.



I concur with the recommendation on the ZS5. I think you'd be really happy with it. Just plan on doing at least a set of foam tips. If it's still too much for you, try the mods as the mods are very easy and effective.

Is the ZS5 perfect? No, but nothing is perfect.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 25, 2017)

Vytautas said:


> Now I am testing KZ ZS5 v1 on my system. It seems that KZ5 v1 are too sensitive despite they have 30% lower sound output than other KZ models. I usually keep volume just at 10-20%. So, which ZS5 version - higher impedance (v2) or lower impedance (v1) is *better to use with Dragonfly*?


ZS6 (109 dB/mW / 127 dB/V) (and as such probably ZS5v2, but no actual figures on that) should be quite a bit *more *sensitive than ZS5v1 (99 dB/mW / 122 dB/V):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1606#post-13808066
(and less current hungry ZS6/ZS5v2 = easier to drive).

So what exactly do you mean by "*too sensitive*" - noise floor / hissing ?  Or do you just want more room to play on your volume control?


----------



## nkramer

Cruelhand Luke said:


> it helps to read Slaters posts in a German Scientist voice.
> "Do you see ver the needle is POINTING!?" try reading them that way, and see if that helps...



Lol. Too funny.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> Oh, @bsoplinger wanted coreless? Sorry I missed that part (it's late LOL).…
> _Update: I just ordered the 3rd link down. I'm tired of punching lopsided holes in foam earplugs, and I figure I need to try out what I'm recommending LOL_


Too funny. But yeah, I liked the suggestion to try the coreless (couldn't think of the appropriate term when I posted before) since its a PITA using the leather working single punches with ear plugs; my current method. If I had a decent expensive hole punch it might be good enough but I don't. Didn't have much need to be making holes in things so the simple leather punches were enough. Thanks for finding a smaller quantity than the 100 I had.


----------



## acia

Slater said:


> Here you go chief: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...m-memory-foam-eartips-for-in/32732040972.html
> 
> You pick the color, the model (T500 for ZS5/ZS6, or Txxx for blah blah), and the OD size (S,M,L). You can also do any combination as well. All come in a plastic case.
> 
> Ordered numerous times from that seller; never had a problem.



any idea where to get the metal mesh grille for the zs5 please?  what's the correct size please?


----------



## vector84

acia said:


> any idea where to get the metal mesh grille for the zs5 please?  what's the correct size please?





vector84 said:


> How about aliexpress?
> Lot of 10 @ $1.99: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Dus...sh-3-8mm-4mm-4-2mm-4-7mm-5mm/32800734441.html
> Lot of 100 @ $6.50: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ones-shell-steel-mesh/923848_32288422871.html
> (send a message to the seller along with your order to specify sizes)
> ...


----------



## Vytautas (Nov 25, 2017)

Could you please recommend *second *(and third) best headphones (I have more that 3 year old muddy Panasonic TCM125 only):
1. Which complements ZS5 best. Different sound signature, cheap but not bad, for wife. A bit hard for me to describe and decide now: more warm or flat. Casual. Street ones. With Bluetooth cable. For electronic music.
2. Are suitable best for Dragonfly v1.0c (1,8V) DAC (< 100 dB/mV)?
3. I have wrote a bit about my tastes and options I am thinking about in my first head-fi.org message (in the bottom of this post).

Can I expect something nice from 5,5 eur Sound Intone E6+ (should be relatively balanced, flat)? Or should I better go with KZ ZS3? ES3? Swing IE800?

EMX500? Are there any less sensitive but great sounding budget earbuds?

Is it worth to have a bit more expensive ones: Urbanfun Hi-Fi MARK II (Beryllium)?




Slater said:


> I concur with the recommendation on the ZS5. I think you'd be really happy with it. Just plan on doing at least a set of foam tips. If it's still too much for you, try the mods as the mods are very easy and effective.
> 
> Is the ZS5 perfect? No, but nothing is perfect.



So I need complementary headphones?




vector84 said:


> ZS6 (109 dB/mW / 127 dB/V) (and as such probably ZS5v2, but no actual figures on that) should be quite a bit *more *sensitive than ZS5v1 (99 dB/mW / 122 dB/V):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1606#post-13808066
> (and less current hungry ZS6/ZS5v2 = easier to drive).
> 
> So what exactly do you mean by "*too sensitive*" - noise floor / hissing ?  Or do you just want more room to play on your volume control?



Exactly, noise floor / hissing. When I am listening to dynamic classical music records I have to keep the sound level of Dragonfly v1.0c very low even on ZS5v1 already. I think that buying higher sensitivity headphones would be nonse.





Vytautas said:


> Hi,
> 
> could you please help me to make a set of nice sounding budget headphones with a smallest possible budget? I am new to this hobby. Headphones will be mainly used with *Dragonfly v1.0c* DAC feed from PC (Linux OS).
> 
> ...


----------



## vector84 (Nov 25, 2017)

Vytautas said:


> Could you please recommend *second* best headphones (I have more that 3 year old muddy Panasonic TCM125 only):
> 1. Which complements ZS5 best. Different sound signature, cheap but not bad, for wife. A bit hard for me to describe and decide now: more warm or flat. Casual. Street ones.
> 2. Are suitable best for Dragonfly v1.0c (1,8V) DAC (< 100 dB/mV)?
> 3. I have wrote a bit about my tastes and options I am thinking about in my first head-fi.org message (in the bottom of this post).
> ...


Personally I found the Urbanfun Hi-Fi v2 hybrid to be a wonderful compliment to a ZS5v1, and it was quite frequently my choice when I wasn't happy with the ZS5 for some reason (usually when I want to crank the volume a bit more and a touch of harshness starts showing on the ZS5, also movies/tv).
(I have the hybrid BA+Beryllium DD one, not one of the single DD Beryllium Urbanfuns)

ZS3/ES3 are a bit more bass tilted, very fun sounding generally, but they rarely get much ear time from me... 

You might want to try asking over in the ChiFi threads though. 


> Exactly, noise floor / hissing. When I am listening to dynamic classical music records I have to keep the sound level of Dragonfly v1.0c very low even on ZS5v1 already. I think that buying higher sensitivity headphones would be nonse.


So something less sensitive would reduce / eliminate the hissing, but that's going to limit your choices quite significantly... I have little experience on the subject of low sensitivity IEMs personally...

But as a fellow someone who also hears an noise floor on almost everything, how about a completely different option?  If you can live with a 1-1.5 ohm output impedance, a voltage divider will solve all your woes and let you use most phones without an annoying noise floor - iFi IEMatch / Ear Buddy, or you can make your own voltage divider too (they're quite simple and cheap to make, but iFi's use very high quality and well matched components).


----------



## Vytautas

Hybrid Urban Hi-Fi seems to be a good fit because of the lower sensitivity too. 

Are there any mods to make ES3 less bass'y?  



vector84 said:


> Personally I found the Urbanfun Hi-Fi v2 hybrid to be a wonderful compliment to a ZS5v1, and it was quite frequently my choice when I wasn't happy with the ZS5 for some reason (usually when I want to crank the volume a bit more and a touch of harshness starts showing on the ZS5, also movies/tv).
> (I have the hybrid BA+Beryllium DD one, not one of the single DD Beryllium Urbanfuns)
> 
> ZS3/ES3 are a bit more bass tilted, very fun sounding generally, but they rarely get much ear time from me...
> ...


----------



## Ynot1

Why not get the best? There are plenty of second best in life we don't know about, because we tend to only remember the best.
And I'm thinking eq can help solve some noise problems.


----------



## iQuest

it seems my ate's aren't entirely broken, actually there's sound coming from the right earpiece when i move cable near the housing
is this recoverable, any method to safely disassemble kz ate's housing


----------



## RomStar (Nov 25, 2017)

I feel like, this is a good time to compare the swing800s and Zs5's, (Note: I only own Zs5 v1)

Even though im not as good as @vector84 and his indepth analysis or as knowledgeable as @Slater in terms of mods and hardware, i will try my best and objectively define the two

I will also post my preferences and songs used at the bottom for reference

*Build*

*Swings: *For starters, the swings are a bit cheaper or around the same price as the Zs5s. I bought the Swings for $18 AUD and the Kzs for $30 respectively. Now before we get into the sound, i must admit, the build on the Swings were a complete mixed bag. Its got an *amazing aluminium shell*, and a good looking cable, however here is where the praise ends. Arguably the most important aspect is how well the cables perform. The swings have a very thick rubbery coating which introduces a lot of microphonics when moving around. Its also very very sticky, even stickier than the stock KZ cable. And normally that would not be an issue, except it sticks to literally everything. Even when im listening whilst in bed (and reading), i often find myself getting annoyed by the fact i have a to fiddle with a *cable sticking *and pulling the headphones out of my ear. Another thing to note is the insanely *cheap looking microphone*, which breaks the illusion of an expensive iem. These are the achilles heel of the Swings. Now, Forget running, let alone having a smooth walk with these, these are for stationary listening. However, one advantage is, how amazing its *anti-tangle properties* are. It almost never tangles up.

 


*KZ: *The Zs5's on the other hand, have a plastic housing and decent build quality. The *plastic does feel cheap*, and the Zs6 is a huge improvement over this with its aluminium body. However, thats not really an issue, and it looks very good and clean in person. I dont care about the plastic build too much, and its major advantage are the removable cables. This extends its life by quite a bit, and the upgraded silver plated cable is actually very nice. It does tangle a fair bit in my pocket, however, there is* 0 cable noise *which is huge improvement over the stock cable. I can ever run with them and their over-ear designs lead them to not falling out of my ears. Now to be clear, they don't feel like they will break on me, but the build does require a lot to be *desired. *However, the Zs6 does address and fix all these issues.

 

*Sound

Swings:* In terms of sound, the swings are absolutely phenomenal. I would describe the sound to be V-shaped and with vibrant highs. I think these house a single dynamic drivers (not sure) and they do pack a punch. The highs are a bit bright, but not piercing or sibilant at all. The mids do lack an extra oomph and the vocals sound recessed. However, the bass is very quick and deep, which makes it super fun to listen to. Infact, ill say it here: These sound like *closed back SHP9500s* to some extent (not in soundstage per say, but soundwise to me, they do resemble my Shp9500s vaguely). They sound identical to my senheisser momentums and provide around the same sound stage, which in short is excellent. However, it does slightly lack bass extension, and sub-bass is minimal. The overall sound is superb and Jazz sounds amazing with these.


*KZ:* These also sound stellar, and pack a punch far above their weight. The Treble is very bright and sparkly, and on some tracks even sound sibilant to me (Like Fallout Boys: Last Of The Real Ones). I actually needed foam tips to tame that, and now i must say, its not just bearable, but rather very fun to listen to and an absolute pleasure if appreciate good highs. It has 4 drivers, 2BA and 2DD. The mids are very neutral and to my ears sound very good. The bass and sub-bass is where it dominated the swings. The sub-bass is phenomenal, and extends very deep (Upto the 30-50khz). Infact, i can feel my *ears shaking* and rumbling when i test 20khz samples on it, which is mighty impressive. Bass is also very well defined and works really well on genres such as pop and rap, however, the bass is a bit *slower* (compared to Swings), which could have helped with EDMs (Halsey Colors: Audizen Remix). The soundstage is also very very wide. When listening to tracks such as Donald Fagens: I.G.Y. You can trace all the elements in play and there is fantastic* instrumental separation*, more so than the sennheiser and swings. Overall, it is possibly the best iem i own, and it gets very loud on weak sources as a bonus (Neutron+Phone).


*Overall*

It is a very amusing predicament where i can not simply recommend one over the other. The swings should honestly be enjoyed irrespective of its price. Its an actual gem and i could have not been any more impressed with it. The KZ's are also solid. It sounds great with almost anything i throw at it and it continually amazes me with how well it performs, specially considering it can now be bought for $19 AUD on deals.

If i had to recommend anyone of them, id say:


*Get the KZ,* if your'e not treble sensitive or dont mind using foam tips or eq (Highly recommended). However, i can *not* *guarantee you will get the v1* hence everything stated here would not apply to them. Also i did go through 8 pairs of tips before i settled on foam, hence be ready for tip rolling.

*Get the swings, *If your'e afraid of getting the V2 or dont like too much treble. In all honesty, the Swings are insanely amazing and It should be enjoyed *irrespective of price*.

However, if you can, i would get both of them at such cheap prices.



*Songs Used/My Preferences 
*
I listen to a lot of Rap, Rock and most Pop songs. I also listen to EDMs from time to time and appreciate my drumstep, those are my preferences and they influence how i perceive these headphones

*Songs used:*

1: Post Malone Rockstar, other releases
2: XXXTentacion- Roll In Peace
3: A$AP Ferg- Plain Jane, Yammy Gang etc
4: Fallout Boys - Almost all their releases
5: Linkin Park- All releases
6: Aesop Rock-None Shall Pass and other releases
7: Jazz - numerous songs
8: Donal Fagens:I.G.Y
9: Numerous EDMS - Including Tristam, Braken, Teminite, Panda Eyes
10: Vivaldi - Four Seasons


*Source:
*
- Spotify Premium with highest preset
-Galaxy Note 5 International With Wolfson Dac
-My Amp is on its way, and i will re-edit this to include any improvements/changes that it brings


----------



## kokakolia

Slater said:


> I concur with the recommendation on the ZS5. I think you'd be really happy with it. Just plan on doing at least a set of foam tips. If it's still too much for you, try the mods as the mods are very easy and effective.
> 
> Is the ZS5 perfect? No, but nothing is perfect.



My KEF M100s are


----------



## CYoung234

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I the only one who is happy with the Starlines that came with the ZS6?



No, I like them extremely well for the ZS5 and a lot on my ZS6, so far. I am currently trying foams on the ZS6, but it is settling down pretty well after some burn in. The stock tips sound quite good on it. It was a little sizzly out of the box, but now, WOW! Just a touch too much extremely high end on some recordings...


----------



## chickenmoon (Nov 25, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> My KEF M100s are



I just bought a pair of those for £30 on Amazon. I'll ask you for my money back if they don't meet your assessment of perfection, easy money...


----------



## kokakolia

chickenmoon said:


> I just bought a pair of those for £30 on Amazon. I'll ask you for my money back if they don't meet your assessment of perfection.



Whaaaaat!? They sell for $150 in the US and $100 (CAD) in Canada. I thought I had the bargain of the century for $100 CAD but you beat me by a huge margin. 

At this price Chi-Fi is utterly pointless. 

Congratulations! You won't ever find a better pair of earphones at that price.


----------



## chickenmoon (Nov 25, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Whaaaaat!? They sell for $150 in the US and $100 (CAD) in Canada. I thought I had the bargain of the century for $100 CAD but you beat me by a huge margin.
> 
> At this price Chi-Fi is utterly pointless.
> 
> Congratulations! You won't ever find a better pair of earphones at that price.



Warehouse deal with 20% BF rebate, that's why price was so low. I wouldn't have paid more for them though, £30 was my threshold for buying those. I have the M200s already, and well, guess what, they aren't perfect, even for the £50 I spent on them, so I strongly doubt the M100s will be, I hope they will be decent though.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 25, 2017)

> nothing is perfect





kokakolia said:


> My KEF M100s are


Anyone that says this about *anything* is still in their honeymoon period


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Which IEMs are you considering those tips for buddy?


ZS5, ZS3 and ES3...plus all manner of random iems I already have laying around


----------



## zabunny94

vector84 said:


> Anyone that says this about *anything* is still in their honeymoon period



then any review of 2017 releases of KZ shouldn't taken seriously since it's still in honeymoon period 

though i do really want to see a follow up review of last year release and see how they're holding up against the newer ones.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> DIY:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1647#post-13829756
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/foam-stuffed-hybrid-tips.623949/
> 
> ...



Slater, c`mon! I already know long time ago DIY versions (did that when ATE first launched). Just wondered if there is on sale something as silicone+foam(between barrel and silicone skirt).
Symbio`s I know also but haven`t bought them bc their bore is rather small size, wish for something similar but larger bore (at least opening of bore).


----------



## young59

Does anyone know the output power of the Zishan Z2? I just found out it can function as a DAC+Amp for PC and Android and was thinking of getting it because everything I one has very high noise floor hissing everywhere.And If anyone know any other alternatives at this range do tell.Thanks


----------



## SomeGuyDude

zabunny94 said:


> then any review of 2017 releases of KZ shouldn't taken seriously since it's still in honeymoon period
> 
> though i do really want to see a follow up review of last year release and see how they're holding up against the newer ones.



Anyone who claims any headphone is perfect is in a honeymoon period. That's what the other poster was saying.


----------



## Slater (Nov 25, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Slater, c`mon! I already know long time ago DIY versions (did that when ATE first launched). Just wondered if there is on sale something as silicone+foam(between barrel and silicone skirt).
> Symbio`s I know also but haven`t bought them bc their bore is rather small size, wish for something similar but larger bore (at least opening of bore).



OK, I figured as much.

Yeah, the only non-DIY versions I know of is the Symbios (and of course the Sony Hybrids which you can't get anymore).

BTW, they DO have a large bore Symbio version! They offer both small and large bore.


----------



## Dariusdd

Hello! I just received my KZ ZS6s, it took a while. I previously had a pair of ZS5s, but I think one of the drivers suddenly died on them, as mids started to be barely audible in the right monitor.
After listening to quite a few things with the ZS6s, I find them a mixed bag, mostly because each of the monitors sounds different. Voices are much crisper and louder in the left monitor when compared to the right one. As such, they are really annoying to listen to. They both fit snuggly in my ears, and I tried using various tips, the difference is still there no matter what I try. I feel cursed with bad luck when getting/using IEMs. My ROCK Zircons started having issues with the right monitor, the ZS5s suddenly went poof on me and now this.
What else can I try to do to find the issue?


----------



## HUGO SILVA

hello friends, how about you?

Would you like to write a review about KZ Bluetooth adapter? Is it a good product?


----------



## TheVortex

Dariusdd said:


> Hello! I just received my KZ ZS6s, it took a while. I previously had a pair of ZS5s, but I think one of the drivers suddenly died on them, as mids started to be barely audible in the right monitor.
> After listening to quite a few things with the ZS6s, I find them a mixed bag, mostly because each of the monitors sounds different. Voices are much crisper and louder in the left monitor when compared to the right one. As such, they are really annoying to listen to. They both fit snuggly in my ears, and I tried using various tips, the difference is still there no matter what I try. I feel cursed with bad luck when getting/using IEMs. My ROCK Zircons started having issues with the right monitor, the ZS5s suddenly went poof on me and now this.
> What else can I try to do to find the issue?



Hi, sounds strange but have you got them plugged in the correct way around?


----------



## TheVortex

HUGO SILVA said:


> hello friends, how about you?
> 
> Would you like to write a review about KZ Bluetooth adapter? Is it a good product?



The newer 4.2 version is a great product sound quality wise and the battery lasts around 3.5 - 4 hours.


----------



## Dariusdd

TheVortex said:


> Hi, sounds strange but have you got them plugged in the correct way around?


Yes, I double checked that.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

TheVortex said:


> The newer 4.2 version is a great product sound quality wise and the battery lasts around 3.5 - 4 hours.


this https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html works fine on KZ ZS5 and KZ ZS6?


----------



## Slater (Nov 25, 2017)

Dariusdd said:


> Yes, I double checked that.



When the ZS5 first came out, there were reports of some acting funny - cutting in and out, suddenly not working, missing frequencies, etc. The solution was to tap them against a table. The thought was something was sticking (voice coil, armature, etc).

Worth a try.


----------



## TheVortex

HUGO SILVA said:


> this https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html works fine on KZ ZS5 and KZ ZS6?



Yes, I have tested it with the ZS5 V1 and ZS6 and sounds great.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> The newer 4.2 version is a great product sound quality wise and the battery lasts around 3.5 - 4 hours.



Even the new 4.2 version can be subject to RF/EMI interference and skipping when moved more than 3 feet from the source. I have (3) Bluetooth adapters, and the issue was on 2.

I did the antenna fix on both and have not had a problem since.


----------



## young59

HUGO SILVA said:


> this https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html works fine on KZ ZS5 and KZ ZS6?


But that is type B socket you should get the type A one if you want to use with ZS5 and ZS6.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

TheVortex said:


> Yes, I have tested it with the ZS5 V1 and ZS6 and sounds great.


I was in doubt because in the ad it says it's only for ES3 / ZST / ED12.


----------



## Slater

Dariusdd said:


> My ROCK Zircons started having issues with the right monitor, the ZS5s suddenly went poof on me and now this.
> What else can I try to do to find the issue?



The issue with the Zircon is the cable. An extremely common failure with the right side.

If you’re handy, you can resolder the connections at the microphone board, or even replace the whole cable.


----------



## Dariusdd (Nov 25, 2017)

After fiddling with a needle, the problem stopped being as noticeable as it was before. It's definitely still there. I also noticed that the bass is ever so slightly more powerful on the right side compared with the left one.
Yesterday, to test if it was glue blocking off the vent, I blocked the left vent (and after that the right one for good measure) with some tape. There was no difference, so I'm not sure what to say.
Is there anything I can break by poking with a needle? I looked at the exploded view of the IEMs I found when searching around, and I can't really tell if any driver is in direct proximity to the hole or not.

EDIT: About the Zircons: I know it's the cable, and the loose connection is in the right monitor part from what I found while fiddling with the cable. The other issue is that I don't have the necessary tools to attempt fixing them.

EDIT2: I think I should rest, now it feels as if the right headphone also has subdued bass and the difference is even more pronounced. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I might have poked something that I shouldn't have.


----------



## Slater

Dariusdd said:


> After fiddling with a needle, the problem stopped being as noticeable as it was before. It's definitely still there. I also noticed that the bass is ever so slightly more powerful on the right side compared with the left one.
> Yesterday, to test if it was glue blocking off the vent, I blocked the left vent (and after that the right one for good measure) with some tape. There was no difference, so I'm not sure what to say.
> Is there anything I can break by poking with a needle? I looked at the exploded view of the IEMs I found when searching around, and I can't really tell if any driver is in direct proximity to the hole or not.
> 
> EDIT: About the Zircons: I know it's the cable, and the loose connection is in the right monitor part from what I found while fiddling with the cable. The other issue is that I don't have the necessary tools to attempt fixing them.



If you do poke it with a needle, just don’t poke it too deep. Once the tip of the needle pokes throughout the hole, it’s plenty. In other words, 1-2mm at the most.

Btw, if you completely blocked both vents with tape, you should definitely hear a lot more sub-bass.

Sounds like the Zircons are ready for the trash bin, since you don’t have the tools to fix them. If they aren’t too old, you could contact the seller because to see about a replacement for the defective pair.


----------



## Skyyyeman

Dariusdd said:


> Hello! I just received my KZ ZS6s, it took a while. I previously had a pair of ZS5s, but I think one of the drivers suddenly died on them, as mids started to be barely audible in the right monitor.
> After listening to quite a few things with the ZS6s, I find them a mixed bag, mostly because each of the monitors sounds different. Voices are much crisper and louder in the left monitor when compared to the right one. As such, they are really annoying to listen to. They both fit snuggly in my ears, and I tried using various tips, the difference is still there no matter what I try. I feel cursed with bad luck when getting/using IEMs. My ROCK Zircons started having issues with the right monitor, the ZS5s suddenly went poof on me and now this.
> What else can I try to do to find the issue?



It seems that you are describing essentially the same issue with both the ZS5 and ZS6 -- that the right side has less volume. That's highly unlikely and would imply that it's something else -- such as a source issue, or amp issue, or cable, or the way you have the cable plugged in, or...


----------



## Dariusdd

Mmm I did check the cable several times. I also thought that maybe something is wrong with the right side of the cable, so I switched them. Other than the channels being inverted, the problem was exactly the same.
It's not about lower volume on the ZS5s though, it's about one of the drivers just not working anymore, as the highs are as piercing as they were initially. Later this following week I'll try fiddling with them again like Slater suggested.
On the ZS6s the difference isn't as shocking, but the problem is certainly similar. But it's definitely unpleasant and I noticed something was strange from the beginning.
I tried the ZS6s on different sound sources (laptop, phone, tablet) without any dedicated amplifiers (don't have or know anybody with any) but I doubt that none of the 3 different devices would have trouble driving these.
At this point I'm just tempted to issue a refund, and hope for more luck next time.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just received my red ZS6 today and listened to it for a couple hours.  Took quite a bit of force to insert the pins but they're quite securely placed.  The ZS5 always felt a little loose.

Comfort is slightly worse for me than ZS5, but not bad by any means.  I haven't heard any piercing treble but I'm not sensitive in the least.  The bass was quite lovely too.  I'm glad there's no issues with veiled vocals, so I have no complaints and am quite happy with it's value.  Lovely shade of red too, but I do wish my green didn't get lost in the mail.


----------



## vladstef

Dariusdd said:


> Mmm I did check the cable several times. I also thought that maybe something is wrong with the right side of the cable, so I switched them. Other than the channels being inverted, the problem was exactly the same.
> It's not about lower volume on the ZS5s though, it's about one of the drivers just not working anymore, as the highs are as piercing as they were initially. Later this following week I'll try fiddling with them again like Slater suggested.
> On the ZS6s the difference isn't as shocking, but the problem is certainly similar. But it's definitely unpleasant and I noticed something was strange from the beginning.
> I tried the ZS6s on different sound sources (laptop, phone, tablet) without any dedicated amplifiers (don't have or know anybody with any) but I doubt that none of the 3 different devices would have trouble driving these.
> At this point I'm just tempted to issue a refund, and hope for more luck next time.



It could be that you were just very unlucky. Also, keep in mind that L/R imbalance could be within their QC standards and that the slight imbalance isn't regarded as a flaw. I am also very sensitive to missplaced centre of imaging but my ZS5v1 unit was very good in this area.


----------



## Willber

iQuest said:


> it seems my ate's aren't entirely broken, actually there's sound coming from the right earpiece when i move cable near the housing
> is this recoverable, any method to safely disassemble kz ate's housing


Have a look at this old post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-273#post-11641215


----------



## vector84

Vytautas said:


> Are there any mods to make ES3 less bass'y?


You can mess with the front volume vent on the ES3 to lower the bass - there's a bit of fabric/mesh that covers the front volume vent from the inside, if you puncture it bass will be reduced.
*I wouldn't recommend trying this unless you're fine with the very real possibility of significant damage / destroying them - *Small holes poked through a blocked vent won't change the sound much, but punching a hole in a working vent cover will reduce the bass by a *ton* - so much that I feel like channel matching them without a measurement rig would've been... a huge challenge at best.


----------



## vector84

vladstef said:


> It could be that you were just very unlucky. Also, keep in mind that L/R imbalance could be within their QC standards and that the slight imbalance isn't regarded as a flaw. I am also very sensitive to missplaced centre of imaging but my ZS5v1 unit was very good in this area.





Dariusdd said:


> At this point I'm just tempted to issue a refund, and hope for more luck next time.


A wide channel imbalance is how I've identified most of my broken / partly broken KZs... they definitely drop the ball occasionally on the QC front there, but I've been successful in getting a refund/replacement for such issues personally 

Obviously you should make sure it's not just your ear swelling or something but yeah, it does happen.


----------



## oyobass

vector84 said:


> You can mess with the front volume vent on the ES3 to lower the bass - there's a bit of fabric/mesh that covers the front volume vent from the inside, if you puncture it bass will be reduced.
> *I wouldn't recommend trying this unless you're fine with the very real possibility of significant damage / destroying them - *Small holes poked through a blocked vent won't change the sound much, but punching a hole in a working vent cover will reduce the bass by a *ton* - so much that I feel like channel matching them without a measurement rig would've been... a huge challenge at best.


You could wrap a good bit of tape around the needle, so that it can only go to a small depth into the vent. That would also keep the diameter of the hole more consistent between left and right sides.


----------



## vector84

oyobass said:


> You could wrap a good bit of tape around the needle, so that it can only go to a small depth into the vent. That would also keep the diameter of the hole more consistent between left and right sides.


That's a really clever idea that ought to be very helpful in most cases.

If memory serves though, the difference between a blocked vent and a fully punctured vent on my ES3 was like -35dB though... yeah, that's what makes it difficult on them


----------



## Slater

Willber said:


> Have a look at this old post:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-273#post-11641215



If you don't have vice grip pliers available, it's even easier and faster to bite down on the seam with your front teeth. Basically exactly the same instructions as that post, only your teeth become the vice grips. I've opened a number of ATE, ATE-S, and ATR housings using the "vice teeth" method. It literally takes 2 seconds. I can't even go to the garage and dig out my vice grip pliers that fast haha


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 25, 2017)

He literally BITES OPEN his IEMs people! The man doesn't have time to go to the garage, he just bites them open, like a MAN does. He stabs them with sewing needles, shoots them with glue lasers and bites them open, all to help you people!
(and don't even get me STARTED on what he can do with full sized cans and a dremel.)
I just implore you, do not @Slater more than three posts in a row, or he will appear in your house and begin dismantling all your headphones with tiny screwdrivers and needle nosed tweezers.


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> He literally BITES OPEN his IEMs people! The man doesn't have time to go to the garage, he just bites them open, like a MAN does. He stabs them with sewing needles, shoots them with glue lasers and bites them open, all to help you people!



I literally spit beer out of my nose when I read that LOL


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> I literally spit beer out of my nose when I read that LOL


High five.


----------



## thejoker13

Dariusdd said:


> Hello! I just received my KZ ZS6s, it took a while. I previously had a pair of ZS5s, but I think one of the drivers suddenly died on them, as mids started to be barely audible in the right monitor.
> After listening to quite a few things with the ZS6s, I find them a mixed bag, mostly because each of the monitors sounds different. Voices are much crisper and louder in the left monitor when compared to the right one. As such, they are really annoying to listen to. They both fit snuggly in my ears, and I tried using various tips, the difference is still there no matter what I try. I feel cursed with bad luck when getting/using IEMs. My ROCK Zircons started having issues with the right monitor, the ZS5s suddenly went poof on me and now this.
> What else can I try to do to find the issue?


Quit buying garbage iem's, and spend a little bit more money for a quality pair. You'll be surprised at how well that works for you, lol. I'm only messing with you and not intending on sounding mean. In all honesty though, I did the same as you for a long time and now am finding much more enjoyment and satisfaction with this hobby, by getting more quality products. You will find the build quality will be much better, even jumping to the 40.00-60.00 price tier. Good luck going forward, and I'm genuinely sorry for your unfortunate situation that you are in at the moment.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Slater said:


> it's even easier and faster to bite down on the seam with your front teeth



As hilarious as this is - as someone with short roots and many teeth problems PLEASE baby your teeth like how you baby your ears.  If you mess up your teeth once, they'll never be the same again!  Just like your ears.  They've gotta last a lifetime.  I no longer have the privilege of eating a whole apple or anything hard like corn nuts.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

SomeTechNoob said:


> As hilarious as this is - as someone with short roots and many teeth problems PLEASE baby your teeth like how you baby your ears.  If you mess up your teeth once, they'll never be the same again!  Just like your ears.  They've gotta last a lifetime.  I no longer have the privilege of eating a whole apple or anything hard like corn nuts.


So since I never have corn nuts, I can probably bite IEMs a few times a year and be fine....
actually I agree with you, I don't think I would bite anything harder than food with my teeth at this point in my life. I mean, at some point teeth just start breaking if you aren't careful!... then you are left having to be satisfied with smelling the breath of people who just ate some corn nuts...


----------



## youngarthur

Even though Slater is in Ohio, and I am in Scotland, I am locking the front door. He is not attacking my earphones!.


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> If you don't have vice grip pliers available, it's even easier and faster to bite down on the seam with your front teeth. Basically exactly the same instructions as that post, only your teeth become the vice grips. I've opened a number of ATE, ATE-S, and ATR housings using the "vice teeth" method. It literally takes 2 seconds. I can't even go to the garage and dig out my vice grip pliers that fast haha


If you do that with your ZS6 don't forget to undo the screws first...


----------



## Vytautas (Nov 26, 2017)

I have no any decent earphones yet and based on the statement: "The best earphone is many earphones. Experts recommend rather three $100 headphones than one $300 headphone." I am looking for three or maybe 4 <15 eur chi-fi headphones. My taste is: live concerts, jazz, classical music. Audiophile listening. Some rock, electronic. Rare - dance music. I am listening the music mainly from Dragonfly v1.0c DAC.

I have been searching and reading for a few days and have made a list (based on what is written on audiobudget.com and there) with 7 most interesting options and can not narrow it down anymore on my own:
1. Details, V-shaped - *ZS5 v2* with high frequency cut and bass improvement mods 15 eur
2. Best stage - *Swing ie800* 10.5 eur
3. Neutral - *Einsear T2* 9 eur or *Intone 6e* 5.5 eur. Could Intone be a better choose than T2? This review seems to be positive: http://www.thephonograph.net/sound-intone-e6-review/
4. V-shaped - *Boarsemen KR25D* 9 eur. Some good sound similarities with *Urbanfun Hi-fi* 15 eur.
5. Earbuds. *MXM500 *8 eur

Which 4 phones you would like to drop / replace in the list first?

Is it nice to have Swing and ZS5 at the same time? Should I just buy Urbanfun Hi-fi in place of some other phones? What sound characteristics MXM500 earbuds have in comparison to other phones? To which they are the most similar?


----------



## Slater (Nov 26, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> As hilarious as this is - as someone with short roots and many teeth problems PLEASE baby your teeth like how you baby your ears.  If you mess up your teeth once, they'll never be the same again!  Just like your ears.  They've gotta last a lifetime.  I no longer have the privilege of eating a whole apple or anything hard like corn nuts.



Very good advice. I am fortunate enough to have fairly decent teeth.

OK HFers, so Slater D.D.S. recommends not biting anything that's "not food". I HAVE chipped my teeth doing stupid stuff in the past (but have also done so eating FOOD as well).

The ATE is very soft plastic, however, and all you're doing is "popping" the very weak glue seal. The amount of force you bite down with is about equal to biting an already-shelled almond kernel in half. So if your teeth are strong enough to eat shelled almonds, they are strong enough to pop the glue seal on the ATE. If not (such as teeth that are extremely weak, already cracked/broken, have veneers or temporary crowns, etc), use the vice grip method.


----------



## xrk971

I guess I am pretty out of it. What’s an ATE? And you bite it? Maybe once bitten it’s EATEN lol. 

I just saw the ZS3s and they look real cool and can’t pass them up for the price. Might be great low mass commuter phones that I won’t worry about losing.


----------



## Slater (Nov 26, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> I guess I am pretty out of it. What’s an ATE? And you bite it? Maybe once bitten it’s EATEN lol.
> 
> I just saw the ZS3s and they look real cool and can’t pass them up for the price. Might be great low mass commuter phones that I won’t worry about losing.



Like this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-273#post-11641215

ATE are really nice with a few mods (sealing the bass vent on the nozzle, modding the back cover with holes/grille to make them open, removing the nozzle mesh screen, and installing wide bore tips).


----------



## xrk971

Thanks Slater. 



CoiL said:


> They will close/open nicely without any glue needed and I also don`t recommend filling empty space with silicone etc. - soundstage will be lost.
> Last night listening to ATE in my bed I decided to pull off backplates while listening and I succeeded. Definitely without backplates or with fully open design ATE sounds better. And LOL, I fell asleep like that enjoying music
> I`m so itching to mod them already with wooden backplates (open with metal grills) but can`t do it till I receive my mmcx connectors and replacement cables.



Once back is popped of, a precision micro drill press like Dremel could be used to perforate the back panel with say a two dozen or more 0.7mm holes and it would be like an open back.


----------



## skajohyros

Vytautas said:


> I have no any decent earphones yet and based on the statement: "The best earphone is many earphones. Experts recommend rather three $100 headphones than one $300 headphone." I am looking for three or maybe 4 <15 eur chi-fi headphones. My taste is: live concerts, jazz, classical music. Audiophile listening. Some rock, electronic. Rare - dance music. I am listening the music mainly from Dragonfly v1.0c DAC.
> 
> I have been searching and reading for a few days and have made a list (based on what is written on audiobudget.com and there) with 7 most interesting options and can not narrow it down anymore on my own:
> 1. Details, V-shaped - *ZS5 v2* with high frequency cut and bass improvement mods 15 eur
> ...


Also check out this site.
http://www.aproear.co.uk/my-top-5-and-recommendations/


----------



## HUGO SILVA

skajohyros said:


> Also check out this site.
> http://www.aproear.co.uk/my-top-5-and-recommendations/


personal, someone knows the in ear LKER i8? Is it a good product? Worth it?


----------



## stryed

Vytautas said:


> I have no any decent earphones yet and based on the statement: "The best earphone is many earphones. Experts recommend rather three $100 headphones than one $300 headphone." I am looking for three or maybe 4 <15 eur chi-fi headphones. My taste is: live concerts, jazz, classical music. Audiophile listening. Some rock, electronic. Rare - dance music. I am listening the music mainly from Dragonfly v1.0c DAC.
> 
> I have been searching and reading for a few days and have made a list (based on what is written on audiobudget.com and there) with 7 most interesting options and can not narrow it down anymore on my own:
> 1. Details, V-shaped - *ZS5 v2* with high frequency cut and bass improvement mods 15 eur
> ...



I like the Swing for its comfort and easy listening, and zs5 for soundstage. I'd suggest looking for real pair of Vivo XE800 (could be difficult) as they're cheap and will give you another sound entirely which focuses on the mids/treble detail. There's also the urban hifi (which version?) which could be interesting.


----------



## wastan

Vytautas said:


> I have no any decent earphones yet and based on the statement: "The best earphone is many earphones. Experts recommend rather three $100 headphones than one $300 headphone." I am looking for three or maybe 4 <15 eur chi-fi headphones. My taste is: live concerts, jazz, classical music. Audiophile listening. Some rock, electronic. Rare - dance music. I am listening the music mainly from Dragonfly v1.0c DAC.
> 
> I have been searching and reading for a few days and have made a list (based on what is written on audiobudget.com and there) with 7 most interesting options and can not narrow it down anymore on my own:
> 1. Details, V-shaped - *ZS5 v2* with high frequency cut and bass improvement mods 15 eur
> ...



With those preferences I'd put the UrbanFun hybrid near the top of the list. 
Also consider the EMI CI880


----------



## bsoplinger (Nov 26, 2017)

wastan said:


> With those preferences I'd put the UrbanFun hybrid near the top of the list.
> Also consider the EMI CI880


Do you have a link for the hybrid? I've seen this one mentioned a few times and went looking for for it but the listings all seemed to have the single beryllium driver mixed in with the hybrid and when I go to choose the hybrid it isn't available. Similarly I've had troubles finding the Ci880. Looks like the lifespan of these inexpensive Chi-Fi IEMs is about 2 months.

When I first looked at this thread just a couple of months ago it was ZS5 now its ZS6 and people are salivating about the new/improved xxx that was supposed to be released 'any day now.'


----------



## SomeGuyDude

bsoplinger said:


> Do you have a link for the hybrid? I've seen this one mentioned a few times and went looking for for it but the listings all seemed to have the single beryllium driver mixed in with the hybrid and when I go to choose the hybrid it isn't available. Similarly I've had troubles finding the Ci880. Looks like the lifespan of these inexpensive Chi-Fi IEMs is about 2 months.
> 
> When I first looked at this thread just a couple of months ago it was ZS5 now its ZS6 and people are salivating about the new/improved xxx that was supposed to be released 'any day now.'



That's the "fun" of the thread. There's a new hot thing every few months or less. I remember when the TFZ Series was considered el numero uno flagship killer. 

I think it's just because every once in a while a damn good one pops up, everyone goes bananas over it, but then the hype cools down and people start to realize that a sub-$50 product really is just a sub-$50 product, then there's something new and "omg this one is the one that's so good it'll unseat the Andromeda!!!"


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 26, 2017)

.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

[/QUOTE] When I first looked at this thread just a couple of months ago it was ZS5 now its ZS6 and people are salivating about the new/improved xxx that was supposed to be released 'any day now.'[/QUOTE]
As it always was, so shall it always be, make way for the new boos, same as the old boss!
Electronics in general are on a linear path of constant change and improvement, and KZ in particular seems to maintain a fairly frenetic pace. I mean, between the  time I decided a few months ago that this years christmas present to myself was going to be some IEMs and when 11/11 finally rolled around the ZS6 went from being more than I wanted to spend, to a toss up between the ZS5 and ZS6 because it had a $20.00 coupon.


----------



## Slater (Nov 26, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> Thanks Slater.
> 
> Once back is popped of, a precision micro drill press like Dremel could be used to perforate the back panel with say a two dozen or more 0.7mm holes and it would be like an open back.



Yes, that would work fine, and requires no extra materials. I used the same method on my QKZ W1 Pro.

On my ATE, I used the dremel to grind out a large hole, and then glued in the stainless mesh screens f/broken v1 Apple earbuds to the inside of the ATE cover.

I bought it looked a little bit cooler than just drilling a bunch of holes in the cover (but achieved the same basic thing).

I REALLY wanted to do what @CoiL did though - use the gold mesh covers from the inside of the ATE. I was just too lazy to do all of the soldering work (and honestly I try to only de/resolder IEM drivers when absolutely necessary because it takes so little heat to screw them up).

Here's info/pics of what CoiL did to his (ie FF-mod): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2150#post-12763658

Here’s a photo of mine (can't hold a candle to CoiL's "FF-mod" version, but I basically did everything he did minus the Frankenstien ED9 nozzle retrofit): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1106#post-13350513


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Look forward to giving a companion to my newly bought Fiio F3 earphones after my beloved Piston 2 went kaput few weeks back. After liking F3 for the first two days to absolutely hating them afterward (the sibilance/brightness caused ringing in my Piston accustomed ears) for like 5-6 days, they did show their true potential finally and are really amazing now. 
Did they become better due to burn in (just played normal music) or was it brain/ears burn in? Definitely a step above my Xiaomi Piston 2.

Back to the original question, the budget is around $50. My mind more or less is set on KZ ZS6. But I'm worried about the reliability, sibilance and the overall mixed opinions of them. Are there any other iems which have got a unanimous stamp of approval as regards overall quality as Xiaomi Piston 2 enjoyed back in those days?


----------



## j0p3Y

Hi, 
I am looking for a KZ upgrade cable for my ZS6. I have a few other KZ as well, as many of you probably too 
I found at least four different upgrade cables, of which the first three are in my price range. I like to hear your advice on which one of them I should choose, since there's not much info on the differences, at least not as far as I can find. 
I'll describe the cables by their appearance :
1) silver cable, white straight plastic plugs to earpiece, white angled plastic plug to source.
2) silver cable, black angled plastic plugs to earpiece, black angled plastic plug to source.
3) silver cable, silver metal straight plugs to earpiece, silver metal straight plug to source. <-- my favorite.
4) gold cable, white straight plastic plugs to earpiece, white angled plastic plug to source. <-- above my budget.

I read about not exactly fit of plug 3 to the kz6, but I'm quite handy and have no problem cutting things to a perfect fit, at least if sound quality is on or over par with the others.


----------



## Vytautas

Thank you for all nice recommendations! After more reading I am thinking how much I will miss (if anything) without hybrid *Urbanfun Hi-Fi* and *KZ ZS5 v2*.

It seems that *Einsear T2 *(balanced), *Boarsemen KR25D *(audiophile) and *Swing ie800* (complex music) are some really nice options on a budget. On www.aproear.co.uk they are rated respectably higher in mids quality, bass and sound stage and fun categories than their hybrid siblings.

Could you say that Urbanfun Hi-Fi and KZ ZS5 v2 (both or one of them) are head above, more natural and lively, than those 3 different most tuned dynamic driver headphones and I should go with these in place of 3 more "specialized" ones? 



skajohyros said:


> Also check out this site.
> http://www.aproear.co.uk/my-top-5-and-recommendations/





stryed said:


> I like the Swing for its comfort and easy listening, and zs5 for soundstage. I'd suggest looking for real pair of Vivo XE800 (could be difficult) as they're cheap and will give you another sound entirely which focuses on the mids/treble detail. There's also the urban hifi (which version?) which could be interesting.





wastan said:


> With those preferences I'd put the UrbanFun hybrid near the top of the list.
> Also consider the EMI CI880


----------



## vector84 (Nov 26, 2017)

This just showed up on AK Audio, appears to be the anticipated Type A tri-braid cable?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32842791429.html
(oops, these have been up on NiceHCK for a couple weeks now and I missed it? but AK is cheaper )



j0p3Y said:


> Hi,
> I am looking for a KZ upgrade cable for my ZS6. I have a few other KZ as well, as many of you probably too
> I found at least four different upgrade cables, of which the first three are in my price range. I like to hear your advice on which one of them I should choose, since there's not much info on the differences, at least not as far as I can find.
> I'll describe the cables by their appearance :
> ...


There are two plug to the earpiece types, type A (ZS3/ZS5/ZS6) and type B (ZST/ES3/ED12). Type B connectors need to be trimmed down slightly to fit into type A housings.

There are a few different cable types:
silver (SPC) 4-wire with white plastic connectors, angled plug
also available covered in gold colored foil with black connectors, angled plug
grey OFC SPC 4-wire with black connectors, angled plug
silver SPC tri-braid with metallic looking connectors and larger metal straight plug

Most type A connectors are straight, most type B are angled, but the tri-braid cables have short straight connectors and have only been available in type B until just recently.

For the most part the tri-braids tend towards the lowest resistance (expected given additional material).  The other upgrade cables are mostly relatively similar (with some old outliers). All the upgrade cables appear to have separated ground runs. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1525#post-13765885


----------



## nappiguan

My green Kz6 has had 40+ hours.  With the tri-braid cable and foam tips they are sounding better than my Westone 3.  I highly recommend a slight eq to soften the highs and bring up the lows.


----------



## skajohyros

Vytautas said:


> Thank you for all nice recommendations! After more reading I am thinking how much I will miss (if anything) without hybrid *Urbanfun Hi-Fi* and *KZ ZS5 v2*.
> 
> It seems that *Einsear T2 *(balanced), *Boarsemen KR25D *(audiophile) and *Swing ie800* (complex music) are some really nice options on a budget. On www.aproear.co.uk they are rated respectably higher in mids quality, bass and sound stage and fun categories than their hybrid siblings.
> 
> Could you say that Urbanfun Hi-Fi and KZ ZS5 v2 (both or one of them) are head above, more natural and lively, than those 3 different most tuned dynamic driver headphones and I should go with these in place of 3 more "specialized" ones?


They are all decent. It comes down to personal taste. Just pick one and then another. It'll be fun to get a new toy each month.


----------



## Superluc

nappiguan said:


> My green Kz6 has had 40+ hours.  With the tri-braid cable and foam tips they are sounding better than my Westone 3.  *I highly recommend a slight eq to soften the highs and bring up the lows.*


I agree


----------



## wastan

bsoplinger said:


> Do you have a link for the hybrid? I've seen this one mentioned a few times and went looking for for it but the listings all seemed to have the single beryllium driver mixed in with the hybrid and when I go to choose the hybrid it isn't available. Similarly I've had troubles finding the Ci880. Looks like the lifespan of these inexpensive Chi-Fi IEMs is about 2 months.
> 
> When I first looked at this thread just a couple of months ago it was ZS5 now its ZS6 and people are salivating about the new/improved xxx that was supposed to be released 'any day now.'




Sorry, I got both of them from US Amazon. The UrbanFun was some time ago. The EMI was sold under the Blumuze name.


----------



## kokakolia

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Look forward to giving a companion to my newly bought Fiio F3 earphones after my beloved Piston 2 went kaput few weeks back. After liking F3 for the first two days to absolutely hating them afterward (the sibilance/brightness caused ringing in my Piston accustomed ears) for like 5-6 days, they did show their true potential finally and are really amazing now.
> Did they become better due to burn in (just played normal music) or was it brain/ears burn in? Definitely a step above my Xiaomi Piston 2.
> 
> Back to the original question, the budget is around $50. My mind more or less is set on KZ ZS6. But I'm worried about the reliability, sibilance and the overall mixed opinions of them. Are there any other iems which have got a unanimous stamp of approval as regards overall quality as Xiaomi Piston 2 enjoyed back in those days?



Ehhhh...Do you like having loads of treble and bass? Do you mind having muffled vocals? Because that's what the KZ sound seems to be all about. 

You could certainly find a more balanced earphone, like the Marshall Mode. But you won't get the "raw detail" that KZs with loads of sharp treble have. 

Personally, I like having a somewhat mellow immersive sound without aggressive treble that immediately reminds me that I have earphones jammed into my ear holes. I don't care if I can't hear the most minute details in my music. I just want to relax and enjoy the music. 

But if you want to hear sounds you never heard before and don't mind the occasional "zing!" then go for the ZS6!


----------



## vector84 (Nov 27, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Ehhhh...Do you like having loads of treble and bass? Do you mind having muffled vocals? Because that's what the KZ sound seems to be all about.
> 
> You could certainly find a more balanced earphone, like the Marshall Mode. But you won't get the "raw detail" that KZs with loads of sharp treble have.
> 
> ...


Marshall Modes ... balanced?   I dunno about that chief, that doesn't seem to be what anyone else says about them, and it's certainly not what measurements show on them. 

Similar to Piston 2s though?  Sure, that seems more accurate and reasonable. (somewhat V-shaped tending towards L-shaped?)

Not trying to be a jerk or start anything... and that actually looks like a pretty nice sound sig, but let's call a duck a duck, not a swan.


----------



## Vytautas

bsoplinger said:


> Do you have a link for the hybrid? I've seen this one mentioned a few times and went looking for for it but the listings all seemed to have the single beryllium driver mixed in with the hybrid and when I go to choose the hybrid it isn't available. Similarly I've had troubles finding the Ci880. Looks like the lifespan of these inexpensive Chi-Fi IEMs is about 2 months.
> 
> When I first looked at this thread just a couple of months ago it was ZS5 now its ZS6 and people are salivating about the new/improved xxx that was supposed to be released 'any day now.'



There are at least two versions of Urbanfun Hi-fi on the ALi now:
dynamic drive (Berylium) 
new hybrid (Berylium DD + BA)

If there are no original hybrids (DD + BA) for sale anymore it is interesting whenever Urban fun *new Hydrid* version is even better than the 1st was.


----------



## EISENbricher

Burning in my ZS5 with 1More Assistant and it's almost end of 2nd phase in it. Pretty sure there is a very noticeable change. ZS5 is sounding much better than before to me. 
Experiencing the feeling that makes you go back and listen to songs in collection again, just to listen to small bits you couldn't listen to before. This didn't happen in initial hours of ZS5 but now I worship these pretty much : )


----------



## vector84

Vytautas said:


> There are at least two versions of Urbanfun Hi-fi on the ALi now:
> dynamic drive (Berylium)
> new hybrid (Berylium DD + BA)
> 
> If there are no original hybrids (DD + BA) for sale anymore it is interesting whenever Urban fun *new Hydrid* version is even better than the 1st was.


FWIW according to Urbanfun's website the Urbanfun Colorfun (red, orange, yellow, white) are a different model than the Urbanfun HiFi (black cable = beryllium, grey = hybrid v2, braided = original).
Like the HiFi, the Colorfun comes in both single Beryllium DD and hybrid models: http://www.urbanfunlife.com/

There's more info on Urbanfun stuff over in the other ChiFi threads (but still limited).


----------



## JayceOoi

FYI. KZ ZS6 is selling at $22.99 again with this code - GBZS6
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## ivo001

What is the easiest way to burn in headphones? A specific youtube track on loop? A special app (android)?


----------



## vector84

ivo001 said:


> What is the easiest way to burn in headphones? A specific youtube track on loop? A special app (android)?


Pink noise or music are considered safer choices than something like white noise (which can potentially damage tweeters and the like).  Seems like YouTube or a signal generator app / website would all be equally easy?


----------



## ivo001

vector84 said:


> Pink noise or music are considered safer choices than something like white noise (which can potentially damage tweeters and the like).  Seems like YouTube or a signal generator app / website would all be equally easy?


Thanks, found a 10h pink noise on youtube.
Just play it on regular volume?


----------



## vector84 (Nov 27, 2017)

ivo001 said:


> Thanks, found a 10h pink noise on youtube.
> Just play it on regular volume?


Opinions vary, but generally yes, regular to slightly elevated (or reduced) volumes.  Pink noise is a lot safer than something like white noise, but at beyond a certain volume level (generally well above what you'd ever want to stick in your ears) you can incinerate internal parts with any signal, even without DC or DC-like crud making it into the signal (DC takes much less power to incinerate stuff in the context of headphones).


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> Ehhhh...Do you like having loads of treble and bass? Do you mind having muffled vocals? Because that's what the KZ sound seems to be all about.
> 
> You could certainly find a more balanced earphone, like the Marshall Mode. But you won't get the "raw detail" that KZs with loads of sharp treble have.
> 
> ...



We get it. You love the Mode. Spread the Mode love in an appropriate thread instead of every post you make in the KZ thread. That's why it's there; https://head-fi.org/threads/marshall-mode-eq-a-very-underrated-set.755034/


----------



## j0p3Y (Nov 27, 2017)

vector84 said:


> ...
> There are two plug to the earpiece types, type A (ZS3/ZS5/ZS6) and type B (ZST/ES3/ED12). Type B connectors need to be trimmed down slightly to fit into type A housings.
> 
> There are a few different cable types:
> ...


This is the one I found that interested me: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...32842771094.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.tg5IOc
Is this one a good upgrade for the standard cable or do you have a better alternative in this price-range?

Less good-looking alternatives I found are these:
- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...32831882268.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.tg5IOc
- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...32812065485.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.tg5IOc


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kokakolia said:


> Ehhhh...Do you like having loads of treble and bass? Do you mind having muffled vocals? Because that's what the KZ sound seems to be all about.
> 
> You could certainly find a more balanced earphone, like the Marshall Mode. But you won't get the "raw detail" that KZs with loads of sharp treble have.
> 
> ...



Aren't you the guy that keeps babbling about the Mode in this thread? Why are you here? Does Marshall sponsor you?


----------



## vector84

j0p3Y said:


> This is the one I found that interested me: *[REDACTED]*
> Is this one a good upgrade for the standard cable or do you have a better alternative in this price-range?


That's the tri-braid - lowest resistance on average, slick looking, not much to complain about there now that they're available with type A connectors too. Not supposed to link that store on here though. 


> - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...32831882268.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.tg5IOc


grey OFC SPC


> - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...32812065485.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.tg5IOc


silver SPC


----------



## c4rb0n

Could someone share his/her experience on the GB shipping times? Does the shipping with registered mail compared to the unregistered mail in gearbest faster brothers? the next shipping cost next to the registered mail is 11 USD going to my country, is it worth the 11 USD to pay for the shipping fee?


----------



## kokakolia

B9Scrambler said:


> We get it. You love the Mode. Spread the Mode love in an appropriate thread instead of every post you make in the KZ thread. That's why it's there; https://head-fi.org/threads/marshall-mode-eq-a-very-underrated-set.755034/



The thread died 2 years ago...I am just so bitter that a new cheaply made earphone from China with a disgusting "V-shaped" tuning that makes folk and alternative rock music sound awful (drowning out the vocals and turning the cymbals to 11) gets wayy more praise than a well-tuned earphone with a great looking frequency curve...under $50 sometimes $20 on sale. 

Whoever said that the Marshall Mode has a V-shaped frequency response is calling a duck a swan. It's definitely pretty well balanced with the exception of a noticeable bass boost. They're definitely warm too. 

The Marshall Mode has just raised the bar so high for me. They are my benchmark for affordable earphones. So I compared the ZS5 V2, ATE and ZSE to them and they sound so poor in comparison. Only the ED7 was somewhat decent considering the price. 

Granted, it has more to do with my deep hatred of V-shaped earphones with hot treble that make my music sound awful than "raw sound definition" metrics.


----------



## Superluc

Anyway... 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb_scm6FOCb/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio

For the ZSR


> the expected launch date is set on 10th December. More detailed infos will be available soon.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

kokakolia said:


> The thread died 2 years ago...I am just so bitter that a new cheaply made earphone from China with a disgusting "V-shaped" tuning that makes folk and alternative rock music sound awful (drowning out the vocals and turning the cymbals to 11) gets wayy more praise than a well-tuned earphone with a great looking frequency curve...under $50 sometimes $20 on sale.
> 
> Whoever said that the Marshall Mode has a V-shaped frequency response is calling a duck a swan. It's definitely pretty well balanced with the exception of a noticeable bass boost. They're definitely warm too.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your replies. I don't think I'm gonna go with the Marshalls as the reviews on these are mixed. Also, I would like to buy one with detachable cables this time around.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Superluc said:


> Anyway...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb_scm6FOCb/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio
> 
> For the ZSR



Will they be a definite step above the KZ ZS6?


----------



## vector84 (Nov 27, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> The thread died 2 years ago...I am just so bitter that a new cheaply made earphone from China with a disgusting "V-shaped" tuning that makes folk and alternative rock music sound awful (drowning out the vocals and turning the cymbals to 11) gets wayy more praise than a well-tuned earphone with a great looking frequency curve...under $50 sometimes $20 on sale.
> 
> Whoever said that the Marshall Mode has a V-shaped frequency response is calling a duck a swan. It's definitely pretty well balanced with the exception of a noticeable bass boost. They're definitely warm too.
> 
> ...


As long as you refuse the idea that impedance matching is of importance, you're going to have pretty mixed results if you try to play with anything people label as "source dependent" (ie non-linear impedance, especially with multi-driver setups)... 

Doesn't take much to build a voltage divider...


----------



## BrunoC

I've got to agree with kokakolia in respect to the Marshall Modes. They're incredible and a notoriuous step-up from the usual budget IEMs. 

I've been somewhat absorved in the last 8 months to the Chifi world and after all the usually hyped IEMs train, I've bought some (actually too much of them). 
When I return to some Marshall's listening session, I'm amazed by the balanced sound. The mids are pure class and usually only in reach by expensive stuff. The bass is tight. Not boomy, but natural. The highs are detailed and the confort is maybe the best in a IEM I ever experienced.

My favourites: ZS5 v1, Swing I800, EMI-880, Sony MH1C.  The Marshall Mode is maybe my favourite.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I think the Marshall Mode totally deserves the praise.


----------



## EISENbricher

ivo001 said:


> What is the easiest way to burn in headphones? A specific youtube track on loop? A special app (android)?


You may use 1More Assistant app on play store. My experience has been pretty good. It also keeps track of burn in of multiple pairs of earphones.


----------



## bsoplinger

Superluc said:


> … https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb_scm6FOCb/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio
> 
> For the ZSR


Ooh, get both a red set and a green set then wear one of each for the holidays!


----------



## ivo001

EISENbricher said:


> You may use 1More Assistant app on play store. My experience has been pretty good. It also keeps track of burn in of multiple pairs of earphones.


When I search it in the play store it looks like its only in chinese?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Please excuse the low quality photo.
> 
> Do you see where the needle is pointing in this photo? There is a very small round hole. It helps vent pressure when you put the IEM in your ear. If this hole is clogged it can cause problems such as driver flex and "positive pressure" when you insert the IEM in your ear.
> 
> ...



I can't understand how should that little hole be..
Could you please explain in a better way? Sorry and thanks for the patience


----------



## maxxevv

These are what I use for burn-in. They both do a decent job in bedding-in / burning-in of my earphones / headphones so far. 

http://www.taralabs.com/images/stories/cascade/CASCADE NOISE BURN-IN.mp3.zip

http://www.audiocheck.net/download.php?filename=Audio/audiocheck.net_PinkNoise_15min.mp3


----------



## bsoplinger

I thought it was on this thread but since nobody commented on it I'm guessing it was elsewhere. I'll look for the link. It was a collection of 4 "burn-in" sound files: pink noise, white noise, logarithmic sweep and exponential (I think) sweep. I just plug whatever into a Benjie K9 put in on single track repeat and let it run for a day or so until the K9 needs to be recharged. I start with pink noise then a sweep.


----------



## nxnje

bsoplinger said:


> Ooh, get both a red set and a green set then wear one of each for the holidays!



The white ones are just so.... awwwwwwww 
Gonna buy i think, but sure after some reviews.


----------



## Mellowship

nxnje said:


> The white ones are just so.... awwwwwwww
> Gonna buy i think, but sure after some reviews.


I skipped the ZS6 and now I'm starting to read some good impressions about them. Now the ZSR... Gonna wait for them to be thoroughly reviewed... but the shells look like the ZS3's... Which make my ears hurt... I'm inclined to cease my kz adventure here... Until I get curious (or drunk) and start to browse AE... And pull a trigger on a couple of new KZs... Damn... I wish I could save some money to buy me a nice pair of beyerdynamics... I hate you guys... Ups... There goes my credit card again... Damn...


----------



## j0p3Y

vector84 said:


> .... Not supposed to link that store on here though.
> ...


mmkay, what's wrong with that store then?


----------



## j0p3Y

Mellowship said:


> ... I'm inclined to cease my kz adventure here... Until I get curious (*or drunk*) and start to browse AE... And pull a trigger on a couple of new KZs......


Hehheh, same here... these low-priced orders are sometimes made when we're curiously drunk


----------



## vector84

j0p3Y said:


> mmkay, what's wrong with that store then?


Banned from head-fi for TOS violations: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post_12676708


----------



## Nolaughingzone

RomStar said:


> I feel like, this is a good time to compare the swing800s and Zs5's, (Note: I only own Zs5 v1)
> 
> Even though im not as good as @vector84 and his indepth analysis or as knowledgeable as @Slater in terms of mods and hardware, i will try my best and objectively define the two
> 
> ...


A good comprehensive review. Thanks for sharing. Cheers!


----------



## mono-type

Superluc said:


> Anyway...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb_scm6FOCb/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio
> 
> For the ZSR


Looks like the shell design is indeed the same as the ZS3, judging on that recent pic (the previous pic I saw in this thread isn't close enough to see). This is definitely the rumored hybrid version of the ZS3 I've been reading on this thread. I definitely might get this as soon as it comes out, as I really like how the ZS3 fits on my ear. Also, like the ZS6, it's available in red. I like everything in red.


----------



## jaydm99

mono-type said:


> Looks like the shell design is indeed the same as the ZS3, judging on that recent pic (the previous pic I saw in this thread isn't close enough to see). This is definitely the rumored hybrid version of the ZS3 I've been reading on this thread. I definitely might get this as soon as it comes out, as I really like how the ZS3 fits on my ear. Also, like the ZS6, it's available in red. I like everything in red.


We're having the same thoughts


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Grabbed ZS6 for $20. It'll be my first KZ. Let's see whether the hype was worth it.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> OK, I figured as much.
> Yeah, the only non-DIY versions I know of is the Symbios (and of course the Sony Hybrids which you can't get anymore).
> *BTW, they DO have a large bore Symbio version!* They offer both small and large bore.


Woah, didn`t know that! Will look them up! Thanks 



Slater said:


> Yes, that would work fine, and requires no extra materials. I used the same method on my QKZ W1 Pro.
> On my ATE, I used the dremel to grind out a large hole, and then glued in the stainless mesh screens f/broken v1 Apple earbuds to the inside of the ATE cover.
> I bought it looked a little bit cooler than just drilling a bunch of holes in the cover (but achieved the same basic thing).
> I REALLY wanted to do what @CoiL did though - use the gold mesh covers from the inside of the ATE. I was just too lazy to do all of the soldering work (and honestly I try to only de/resolder IEM drivers when absolutely necessary because it takes so little heat to screw them up).
> ...


Heh, blast from the past! ;P Yeah, You can easily do FF-mod differently - with drilling holes, new cover or just open hole at back.
I did fast version with mmcx connector to my ATR: 


CoiL said:


>





CoiL said:


>





EISENbricher said:


> Burning in my ZS5 with 1More Assistant and it's almost end of 2nd phase in it. Pretty sure there is a very noticeable change. ZS5 is sounding much better than before to me.
> Experiencing the feeling that makes you go back and listen to songs in collection again, just to listen to small bits you couldn't listen to before. This didn't happen in initial hours of ZS5 but now I worship these pretty much : )


Glad You like Your ZS5! Did You get v1 or v2? 
Anyway, only KZ IEM that has surpassed my ATE FF-mod (to me, with my gear, music, hearing etc.) and so far best overall KZ IEM to me (haven`t tried ZSE, ZS6 and some oldies).
It has its slight fault but it is so small that doesn`t really bother (bass kick and tightness).



kokakolia said:


> The thread died 2 years ago...I am just so bitter that a new cheaply made earphone from China with a disgusting "V-shaped" tuning that makes folk and alternative rock music sound awful (drowning out the vocals and turning the cymbals to 11) gets wayy more praise than a well-tuned earphone with a great looking frequency curve...under $50 sometimes $20 on sale.
> Whoever said that the Marshall Mode has a V-shaped frequency response is calling a duck a swan. It's definitely pretty well balanced with the exception of a noticeable bass boost. They're definitely warm too.
> The Marshall Mode has just raised the bar so high for me. They are my benchmark for affordable earphones. So I compared the ZS5 V2, ATE and ZSE to them and they sound so poor in comparison. Only the ED7 was somewhat decent considering the price.
> Granted, it has more to do with my deep hatred of V-shaped earphones with hot treble that make my music sound awful than "raw sound definition" metrics.


This is KZ thread. I get You don`t like KZ IEMs (did You even try them all to generalize such way) but hyping other IEM several times in other thread makes me wonder why You spend Your time here? 
Not trying to attack or flame but stop it. You can share impressions much better without "hype" to other brand. This is dedicated thread.


Superluc said:


> Anyway...
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb_scm6FOCb/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio
> For the ZSR


Oh my... I WANT THAT GREENIE ZSR! Will certainly add wooden backplates to them ;P


----------



## oyobass

c4rb0n said:


> Could someone share his/her experience on the GB shipping times? Does the shipping with registered mail compared to the unregistered mail in gearbest faster brothers? the next shipping cost next to the registered mail is 11 USD going to my country, is it worth the 11 USD to pay for the shipping fee?


I would not recommend unregistered free shipping. I'm still waiting on a set of ZSTs ordered for my daughter on the 25th of October. I'll be happy if it ever arrives. Everything else ordered around that time, both before and after with registered airmail has arrived and been in use for weeks. 

That being said, $11.00 is a lot of money to ship a set of headphones, or other small, inexpensive items. I am lucky in that the least expensive registered cost to my house is averaging about $1.60

Gearbest notes a 40 day max shipping time on unregistered to my location (US west coast), so I don't have much to complain about if it arrives in the next eight days or so.

Registered airmail (I chose the cheapest cheapest option) always arrives within a couple of weeks or less.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kokakolia said:


> words



Yeah, no one cares. You hate KZ, you love the Mode, we're all proud of you. Move on with your life an stop spamming this thread with garbage.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Superluc said:


> Anyway...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb_scm6FOCb/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio
> 
> For the ZSR



Hm. That looks like the ZSR is gonna be a cheapie. Like below the 5/6.


----------



## sghound

Superluc said:


> Anyway...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb_scm6FOCb/?taken-by=hillsonicaudio
> 
> For the ZSR



omg the right left fonts look so tacky


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

nxnje said:


> I can't understand how should that little hole be..
> Could you please explain in a better way? Sorry and thanks for the patience



Sure friend, I will do my best to explain it better. I understand a language barrier can be frustrating some time.

1. Find a small sewing needle. It is the same thing used to sew clothes with a spool of thread.
2. In the photo, there is a very small hole. See where the arrows and circle point?




3. Sometimes, the KZ factory use too much glue for the ZS3 speaker inside. A small drop of glue covers the hole. This is a problem. The hole must be open.
4. To solve the problem, use the small needle and insert (push) the sharp end in the small hole. Be careful to only insert (push) the small needle 2mm down in the hole. If there is a drop of glue inside, the sharp needle will push through the glue. The hole will be open once again.

Did I explain the instructions OK?


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Hm. That looks like the ZSR is gonna be a cheapie. Like below the 5/6.



I sincerely hope so. But my prediction is about the same price as the ZST, since it is fundamentally similar - $12-$14 (the same price as the ZST when it first came out).

The ZSE wasn't even $5 when it first came out, and it has fixed cables.


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

sghound said:


> omg the right left fonts look so tacky



Yeah, I think KZ needs to chill out on the goofy cursive font. It looks stupid IMO on the ZS3, ZST, ES3, and now the ZSR.

That translucent green ZSR is sexy as hell, and it even has a classy looking (cosmetic) gold driver grille just like the ATE. Unfortunately, it's completely obstructed by the over-dominating cheeseball writing. A small R and L near the nozzle would be more than sufficient.

Luckily, you can remove that type of printing using a qtip and a solvent such as acetone, goof off, xylene, toluene, lighter fluid, gasoline, naphtha, or lacquer thinner. Then buff it with plastic polish. You can also wet sand it right off as a solvent alternative.

I easily removed the “ZS3” from my ZS3s, and the cheesy writing from my Fonge T01. They look sleek, stealth, and classy, especially the ZS3.


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> Looks like the shell design is indeed the same as the ZS3, judging on that recent pic (the previous pic I saw in this thread isn't close enough to see). This is definitely the rumored hybrid version of the ZS3 I've been reading on this thread. I definitely might get this as soon as it comes out, as I really like how the ZS3 fits on my ear. Also, like the ZS6, it's available in red. I like everything in red.



The photos posted side by side recently, show they are similar but not the same. Heck, the ZSR shell also shares similarities with the ZST and ES3 too.

Also, I don't think this is the hybrid ZS3. Hillsonic audio claims there is a "ZS4" coming soon (which is more likely to be the rumored ZS3 hybrid according to the model naming convention).

It's obviously all speculation at this point. KZ is always tight lipped with details. We'll find out soon enough


----------



## ivo001

sghound said:


> omg the right left fonts look so tacky



The fonts look a bit ridiculous, too much female fashion item look for me.
And it contrasts so much with the ZSR font.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 27, 2017)

Slater said:


> That translucent green ZSR is sexy as hell, and it even has a classy looking (cosmetic) gold driver grille just like the ATE.


Now... imagine... green ZSR with same coloured woodplates and golden grills as with my ATE FF-mod ? Droolin`? I AM LOL ;P
Don`t care about sound, want the shells ;P

Someone should make dark-geenish see-through PVC coated SPOFC cable too! PLEASE!



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNiNcmQXUAASGiQ.jpg





Btw, IMHO ZSR shape is NOT same as ZS3 but rather derived from iBasso IT03 than stagedrivers.


----------



## nkramer

ivo001 said:


> The fonts look a bit ridiculous, too much female fashion item look for me.
> And it contrasts so much with the ZSR font.



little scotchbrite & clear nail polish... done. fixed.


----------



## Viber

I like the ZSR, it looks sassy.


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Woah, didn`t know that! Will look them up! Thanks



No problem buddy. Let us know how you like them!



CoiL said:


> Heh, blast from the past! ;P Yeah, You can easily do FF-mod differently - with drilling holes, new cover or just open hole at back.
> I did fast version with mmcx connector to my ATR:



I didn't know you did an open-backed mod to the ATR. I thought you only modified the ATE.

How does the sound of the open-backed ATR compare to the stock ATR?

Did you add ED9 nozzles to the ATR also?

And how does the sound of the open-backed ATR compare to the modified ATE?



CoiL said:


> Oh my... I WANT THAT GREENIE ZSR! Will certainly add wooden backplates to them ;P



That would look very nice


----------



## vladstef

Given the ZS10 rumor with 5 drivers per side, do you think that KZ will eventually progress to better drivers and not just increase numbers like they have been doing lately?
With this ZSR and some of the previous releases they just keep making combinations of same drivers, feels kinda uninspiring. I though that ES3 was pretty redundant and now this


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> Given the ZS10 rumor with 5 drivers per side, do you think that KZ will eventually progress to better drivers and not just increase numbers like they have been doing lately?
> With this ZSR and some of the previous releases they just keep making combinations of same drivers, feels kinda uninspiring. I though that ES3 was pretty redundant and now this



That's honestly why I skipped the ES3. Seemed kind of redundant meh


----------



## CoiL (Nov 27, 2017)

Slater said:
			
		

> No problem buddy. Let us know how you like them!


Will do.


			
				Slater said:
			
		

> I didn't know you did an open-backed mod to the ATR. I thought you only modified the ATE.


Yeah, long time ago. I`ve done lot of mods lol, craziest of them Monk into IEM (NUN-mod).


			
				Slater said:
			
		

> How does the sound of the open-backed ATR compare to the stock ATR?


ATR with open back didn`t sound much different than stock closed but  lower impedance cable and removing nozzle mesh helped to improve it little.
ATR is rather refined ATE... BUT... I find ATE mids and soundstage(frontal depth) better with my gear&ear. ATR imaging is little closer in frontal depth and stereo-sides also closer.


			
				Slater said:
			
		

> Did you add ED9 nozzles to the ATR also?


No and I doubt it will bring improvement, rather degrade sound in highs department to being too harsh/sibilant.


			
				Slater said:
			
		

> And how does the sound of the open-backed ATR compare to the modified ATE?


Modified ATE still bests out ATR imho, more dynamic natural sound with better soundstage and imaging (for my gear&ear, again  )

Let me put it this way:
ATR is something like Monk+
ATE FF-mod is something like Asura 2.0
that`s just rough picture to paint a picture.


----------



## c4rb0n

oyobass said:


> Registered airmail (I chose the cheapest cheapest option) always arrives within a couple of weeks or less


Thanks sir, the registered airmail costs 2$ going to my country, im still planning on getting a another pair of ZS6 as a gift or Svara Red's on Aliexpress to add on my collection LOL, thanks for the insight sir


----------



## Superluc (Nov 27, 2017)

sghound said:


> omg the right left fonts look so tacky


Yeah, i think so too.

Older photos of them, like the ones posted by Coil, with that metal writing on green case, looks so damn better


----------



## paulindss

The guy bragged so much about the marshal mode, that it cought my attention, the majority of budget chi-fi iems are v-shaped. A mid, natural oriented sound can be more expensive. The tips the he give us on the mode on 20$ are valid, c'mon. The thing is that i have no income(student), and the money i separate to buy iem's can give me only one at time. Right now i have zsr, ask hybrid and marshall mode on my watch haha.


----------



## westsenkovec

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Grabbed ZS6 for $20. It'll be my first KZ. Let's see whether the hype was worth it.


Where?
Did you get the black version?


----------



## vector84

paulindss said:


> The guy bragged so much about the marshal mode, that it cought my attention, the majority of budget chi-fi iems are v-shaped. A mid, natural oriented sound can be more expensive. The tips the he give us on the mode on 20$ are valid, c'mon..


18dB north of neutral bass is a valid "balanced" earphone?  a'ight, good to know.


----------



## paulindss (Nov 27, 2017)

vector84 said:


> 18dB north of neutral bass is a valid "balanced" earphone?  a'ight, good to know.


It was he that stated those qualities on mode, i can"t say because i've never heard, but i said the tip he was gaving was valid, the mode seems different the the v-shape with huge spikes tha'ts so usual these days. The Fr graph that i see on Marshall mode indicates a l-shaped with no huge spike v on mid to high frequencies. Very different than latest kzs, that not only has a bass boost, but a recess in mids, and huge spikes in high frequencies


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

B9Scrambler said:


> We get it. You love the Mode. Spread the Mode love in an appropriate thread instead of every post you make in the KZ thread. That's why it's there; https://head-fi.org/threads/marshall-mode-eq-a-very-underrated-set.755034/


I'm with you on this one...I love my Fidelio L2, but you won't see me popping off in the Sennheiser Momentum thread about how much better they are. 
I will say this, the last time I heard all this Marshal Major jibber jabber I went and checked the price and it was like $30 or $40 which isn't bad, but not great when I got my ZS5 for $13.00....then I checked the price again just now and it's $23.00. 
AND, I just realized that the earpiece has an M on it...My initials...hunh, that would be pretty cool to have my own monogrammed IEMs...
tell me more about this 'balanced sound' you speak of....


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

kokakolia said:


> The thread died 2 years ago...I am just so bitter ....
> .....Granted, it has more to do with my deep hatred of V-shaped earphones with hot treble that make my music sound awful than "raw sound definition" metrics.


This is wonderful, you are really making progress! Unfortunately that's all the time we have today, ok? Go ahead and take that breakthrough home and ponder it and the next time you want to lash out at a KZ headphone, you reflect back on today, ok pal? 
I'm really proud of you.


----------



## Slater

paulindss said:


> The guy bragged so much about the marshal mode, that it cought my attention, the majority of budget chi-fi iems are v-shaped. A mid, natural oriented sound can be more expensive. The tips the he give us on the mode on 20$ are valid, c'mon. The thing is that i have no income(student), and the money i separate to buy iem's can give me only one at time. Right now i have zsr, ask hybrid and marshall mode on my watch haha.



There's neutral IEMs in that price range FYI


----------



## kokakolia

paulindss said:


> The guy bragged so much about the marshal mode, that it cought my attention, the majority of budget chi-fi iems are v-shaped. A mid, natural oriented sound can be more expensive. The tips the he give us on the mode on 20$ are valid, c'mon. The thing is that i have no income(student), and the money i separate to buy iem's can give me only one at time. Right now i have zsr, ask hybrid and marshall mode on my watch haha.



The majority of cheap IEMs from any brand are V-shaped with a huge chance of nasty treble spikes. Kz is no exception to that rule. I am flabbergasted by the amount of hype surrounding Kz for that matter. They just sound like cheap earphones.


----------



## paulindss

Slater said:


> There's neutral IEMs in that price range FYI



Do you mind telling me wich ones ? Not joking, i'm interested, i have little to no reference in more neutral signature. Not talking about earbuds


----------



## Saoshyant

Just because it's V shaped doesn't make it cheap.  It just means it's a sound sig you don't enjoy.  This doesn't make it inherently bad.  I personally find neutral to be a little boring, but that just means it doesn't suit me, that's all.


----------



## paulindss

kokakolia said:


> The majority of cheap IEMs from any brand are V-shaped with a huge chance of nasty treble spikes. Kz is no exception to that rule. I am flabbergasted by the amount of hype surrounding Kz for that matter. They just sound like cheap earphones.



Now i have to fully disagre with you, kz's are solid chi-fi performers, wich means that they already reach the quality of years ago iems that was 5x its price. Do you call senheiser momentuns cheap sounding ? Cause they are V-shaped, and i have Beats more than one comparision with chi-fi v shaped iems. Maybe V-shaped could be easily do tune, maybe not, but call KZ cheap sounding Just because you don't like V-shaped and the RAW details are wrong. There are Lot of pricey products with the same tune, that Just doesn't make sense.


----------



## jaydm99

Slater said:


> I sincerely hope so. But my prediction is about the same price as the ZST, since it is fundamentally similar - $12-$14 (the same price as the ZST when it first came out).
> 
> The ZSE wasn't even $5 when it first came out, and it has fixed cables.


Maybe it can be removed. I used acetone to remove the brandings/logo on the ZS5


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

paulindss said:


> Do you mind telling me wich ones ? Not joking, i'm interested, i have little to no reference in more neutral signature. Not talking about earbuds



Speaking strictly of IEMs I personally own of have heard, the BossHifi B3 is one that comes right to mind. It's beautiful, built well, and sounds great if neutral is your thing. The Vsonic GR07 is another.

@Vidal and @loomisjohnson are the ones that can rattle of a boat load of neutral IEMs, as they've literally owned/heard hundreds of ChiFi IEMs.


----------



## jaydm99

c4rb0n said:


> Thanks sir, the registered airmail costs 2$ going to my country, im still planning on getting a another pair of ZS6 as a gift or Svara Red's on Aliexpress to add on my collection LOL, thanks for the insight sir


My GB order (shipped to PH) arrived after 29 days, unregistered.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> I sincerely hope so. But my prediction is about the same price as the ZST, since it is fundamentally similar - $12-$14 (the same price as the ZST when it first came out).
> 
> The ZSE wasn't even $5 when it first came out, and it has fixed cables.



Not me man. I was hoping for $100+ 

I want KZ to make their Pinnacle P1, or their Quad. Leap up and really do something big.


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> The majority of cheap IEMs from any brand are V-shaped with a huge chance of nasty treble spikes. Kz is no exception to that rule. I am flabbergasted by the amount of hype surrounding Kz for that matter. They just sound like cheap earphones.



That's because v-shaped tuning is the most popular desired "consumer" sound signature by far. It has zero to do with being "cheap".

For example, the Sennheiser HD630vb (a full size headphone, but the same idea applies to IEMs and earbuds) costs $550 retail, and was specifically tuned by Sennheiser to be v-shaped. I don't know about you, but I don't consider $550 "cheap". So was the Philips Fidelio X2, Philip's $300 flagship (again, not exactly "cheap").

The amount of people that want perfectly neutral products fall into a very small minority (and are usually in the audiophile/HF camp). So are the number of people that want totally open headphones. Those are all niches, and it involves personal preference. V-shaped gear is the majority, not the minority, due to simple economics of supply and demand. KZ has nothing to do with it, as they are just 1 small fish in the sea of manufacturers.

Lemme ask you this - do you really think everything else Marshall makes other than the Mode is neutral? How much other Marshall gear have you heard? I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the majority of stuff they make is...drum roll please...v-shaped!

I'll also add that the number of people in a KZ thread that want Marshall Modes likely falls into an even smaller minority of the already small minority of people that want neutral IEMs. haha


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> That's because v-shaped tuning is the most popular desired "consumer" sound signature by far. It has zero to do with being "cheap".
> 
> For example, the Sennheiser HD630vb (a full size headphone, but the same idea applies to IEMs and earbuds) costs $550 retail, and was specifically tuned by Sennheiser to be v-shaped. I don't know about you, but I don't consider $550 "cheap".
> 
> The amount of people that want perfectly neutral products fall into a very small minority (and are usually in the audiophile/HF camp). So are the number of people that want totally open headphones. Those are niches. V-shaped gear is the majority, not the minority, due to simple economics of supply and demand. KZ has nothing to do with it, as they are just 1 small player in the sea of manufacturers.



Seriously, ignore this guy. All he does is piss and moan about KZ and talk about the Marshall Mode. I'm at a point where I'm like 75% convinced he bought a ton of them and is hoping to get everyone to buy them on Amazon from him.


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Not me man. I was hoping for $100+
> 
> I want KZ to make their Pinnacle P1, or their Quad. Leap up and really do something big.



It's all about baby steps. They'll get there eventually. You have to make changes in small increments. I mean, look at what they've done 5 years ago vs 3 years ago. And 3 years ago vs now.

3 years from now, I'm sure we'll be looking back saying "wow, I can't believe the ZS812. I remember when the ZS6 was the shizzle! Look how far they've come since way back in 2017."


----------



## oyobass (Nov 27, 2017)

Slater said:


> It's all about baby steps. They'll get there eventually. You have to make changes in small increments. I mean, look at what they've done 5 years ago vs 3 years ago. And 3 years ago vs now.
> 
> 3 from now, I'm sure we'll be looking back saying "wow, I can't believe the ZS53. I remember when the ZS6 was the shizzle! Look how far they've come since 2017."


Having nostalgia for the future?


----------



## Nathraichean

Just going to leave this out here - 

Code for the ZS6's @ Gearbest for *24.99$* - BlackFAFF05 

I am not sure if this is a good price for these IEM's but i found it on a cheeky website with a lot of blocked content requiring you to click a lot of stuff. I just opened the page code and found the code there with no clicking..  
I'll be following the next comment to know if its a good price. Also, did i do a bad decision buying them? Are there any better ones for this price range? I looked a bit at the forums and other places and i saw them compared to the Tin T2's, i liked the bulkiness of the KZ's and i got them for 25$.

Also.. what is this "sound signature"? I have a basic understanding of it, but thats about it. If anyone can explain it to me in a few words, that'd be great! Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

oyobass said:


> Having nostalgia for the future?



Hey man, I'm still waiting for my BTTF hoverboard, Jetsons flying car, robot maid, and personal jetpack. We were supposed to have all of that long before now, including all of us being able to take vacations at resorts on the moon. I'm getting sick and tired of waiting for all of this stuff!


----------



## oyobass

Nathraichean said:


> Just going to leave this out here -
> 
> Code for the ZS6's @ Gearbest for *24.99$* - BlackFAFF05
> 
> ...


That is a decent price. I paid $27 for mine and am happy with it.

Sound signature is the way an earphone or speaker colors the source sound. More bass and more treble than originally recorded is considered a "V shaped" sound, since it is hyped at both ends of the spectrum sound spectrum. 
Many people prefer a V shape sound, because they find it more fun to listen to.


----------



## kokakolia

Slater said:


> That's because v-shaped tuning is the most popular desired "consumer" sound signature by far. It has zero to do with being "cheap".
> 
> For example, the Sennheiser HD630vb (a full size headphone, but the same idea applies to IEMs and earbuds) costs $550 retail, and was specifically tuned by Sennheiser to be v-shaped. I don't know about you, but I don't consider $550 "cheap". So was the Philips FIdelio X2, a $300 flagship (again, not exactly "cheap").
> 
> ...



So many valid points here. The V-shaped tuning is most popular. If you want something different you'll have to really do your research. Most headphones I like have lukewarm reviews, only because any deviation from the V-shaped sound norm is a con. "Too boring", "Not enough sparkle in the treble". That's what I typically read. I am the tiniest minority for not liking boosted bass and treble. It really sucks. Because whenever I want to jump on the hype train I get very very disappointed. 

Coming back to KZ, I just don't see the point of owning multiple earphones like the ATE, ZS5, ZS6, ED9, ES3 etc...because they all have the same kind of tuning. I think it would be most advantageous to own several earphones with completely different tunings. Kz kinda did that with the ED7 and ZSE which are closer to my preferences. So that's that. I just wish there was a more "premium" option in that category. Oh yeah, there is. And it's anything but another KZ. It starts with an M...

Hearing the KZ ZS5 V2 and ATE was a revelation that KZ wasn't for me. I just hate how the treble and mids are handled. Just NOPE! This sounds bad... 

It also kinda feels bad buying lots of highly praised earphones, spending a decent chunk of change and waiting 2 months only to be super let down. I feel like I flushed $60 down the toilet. 

BTW, I never said that the Marshall was neutral.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Hey man, I'm still waiting for my BTTF hoverboard, Jetsons flying car, robot maid, and personal jetpack. We were supposed to have all of that long before now, including all of us being able to take vacations at resorts on the moon. I'm getting sick and tired of waiting for all of this stuff!


I'll take that self-sizing, self-drying jacket...


----------



## Makahl

Hey, I'm kinda new to KZ world and this question probably has been answered few times but too many pages to find it now and I'm not lucky with the new head-fi's search tool...

So, are there differences between the ZST black and the colored one? The only reply which I've found it's saying the colored has more treble extension but idk if it's true at all. And For i've been reading the ZST looks a good fit for me (realistic cymbals, hi-hats, and good punch) but if the dark one is "darker" should I go to the colored?


----------



## oyobass

kokakolia said:


> So many valid points here. The V-shaped tuning is most popular. If you want something different you'll have to really do your research. Most headphones I like have lukewarm reviews, only because any deviation from the V-shaped sound norm is a con. "Too boring", "Not enough sparkle in the treble". That's what I typically read. I am the tiniest minority for not liking boosted bass and treble. It really sucks. Because whenever I want to jump on the hype train I get very very disappointed.
> 
> Coming back to KZ, I just don't see the point of owning multiple earphones like the ATE, ZS5, ZS6, ED9, ES3 etc...because they all have the same kind of tuning. I think it would be most advantageous to own several earphones with completely different tunings. Kz kinda did that with the ED7 and ZSE which are closer to my preferences. So that's that. I just wish there was a more "premium" option in that category. Oh yeah, there is. And it's anything but another KZ. It starts with an M...
> 
> ...


Another point for me is that I tend to listen at much lower volumes due to concern over protecting my hearing. The V shape makes up for the lower sensitivity of human hearing to bass and treble at lower volume ( Google Fletcher-Munson). Viola! A more neutral sounding earphone for the way I actually use them.


----------



## CoiL

paulindss said:


> It was he that stated those qualities on mode, i can"t say because i've never heard, but i said the tip he was gaving was valid, the mode seems different the the v-shape with huge spikes tha'ts so usual these days. The Fr graph that i see on Marshall mode indicates a l-shaped with no huge spike v on mid to high frequencies. Very different than latest kzs, that not only has a bass boost, but a *recess in mids, and huge spikes in high frequencies*


Once again, ppl tend to generalize too much. Stock ATE and ZS5v1 neither have recessed mids or huge spikes in highs with my gear&ear. And let me remind all - I`m treble sensitive, especially around 6.2-7,5kHz.
The guy had probably some misfortune with faulty unit(s) or mismatching gear and now bashes ALL KZ`s - that`s not right. True, majority of KZ are V-shaped and near-neutral/recessed mids but not all. I will take deeper look into this Marshall Mode if I have time but fast search shows them nothing special.


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> So many valid points here. The V-shaped tuning is most popular. If you want something different you'll have to really do your research. Most headphones I like have lukewarm reviews, only because any deviation from the V-shaped sound norm is a con. "Too boring", "Not enough sparkle in the treble". That's what I typically read. I am the tiniest minority for not liking boosted bass and treble. It really sucks. Because whenever I want to jump on the hype train I get very very disappointed.
> 
> Coming back to KZ, I just don't see the point of owning multiple earphones like the ATE, ZS5, ZS6, ED9, ES3 etc...because they all have the same kind of tuning. I think it would be most advantageous to own several earphones with completely different tunings. Kz kinda did that with the ED7 and ZSE which are closer to my preferences. So that's that. I just wish there was a more "premium" option in that category. Oh yeah, there is. And it's anything but another KZ. It starts with an M...
> 
> ...



I totally see your points. It's kind of redundant when numerous IEMs sound "basically the same". I get that.

You gotta remember, some of it is collecting for the sake of collecting. Some of it is form factor (the HDS3 is different form factor/size/etc to the ATE which is different to the EDR1, even though all 3 sound "basically similar".

One of the big draws to KZ that makes people not mind buying more than 1 model is the ridiculous price. For example, when on sale one could get a ZS3, ATE, EDR1, and ZS5 all for about what (1) Marshall Mode costs. Are all of those KZ models perfect? Definitely not (no product from any manufacturer is). Do many of them sound similar? Sure, with minor nuances. Part of the fun is the journey,a nd discovering what you like and what you don't like. Think about if you had never stumbled upon and decided to try the Marshall Mode - you would never have known you liked it as much as you do. That's all a lot of us are doing, only with other ChiFi brands. It just so happens that this thread is dominated with KZ related talk because it's (no surprise) a dedicated KZ thread.

And my bad; you're right that wasn't you that mentioned the Marshall Mode being neutral. It's late and everything is all starting to run together like a pile of mush LOL.


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Hey, I'm kinda new to KZ world and this question probably has been answered few times but too many pages to find it now and I'm not lucky with the new head-fi's search tool...
> 
> So, are there differences between the ZST black and the colored one? The only reply which I've found it's saying the colored has more treble extension but idk if it's true at all. And For i've been reading the ZST looks a good fit for me (realistic cymbals, hi-hats, and good punch) but if the dark one is "darker" should I go to the colored?



Both sound 100% exactly the same. Just pick which one you like the look of better.

Assuming all 3 of these points:

1. the same tips on both
2. the same cables on both (ie both silver plated or both stock)
3. both either mic or non-mic cables

...then any differences heard are due to normal (and very minor) QC variations that you'll find between any 2 IEMs (ie 2 different ZS5, 2 different HDSE, etc). Other than that, it's a placebo effect.

BTW, sometimes you'll see the colorful version titled as "ZST Pro" on Aliexpress and elsewhere. Again, this can be ignored. All current selling ZST models and colors are the same sound. Pick the color that you fancy and enjoy.


----------



## kokakolia

oyobass said:


> Another point for me is that I tend to listen at much lower volumes due to concern over protecting my hearing. The V shape makes up for the lower sensitivity of human hearing to bass and treble at lower volume ( Google Fletcher-Munson). Viola! A more neutral sounding earphone for the way I actually use them.



Except that...some lower frequencies only show up at higher volumes. And that won't fix the recessed mids either. In the end you'll just get more treble that way.


CoiL said:


> Once again, ppl tend to generalize too much. Stock ATE and ZS5v1 neither have recessed mids or huge spikes in highs with my gear&ear. And let me remind all - I`m treble sensitive, especially around 6.2-7,5kHz.
> The guy had probably some misfortune with faulty unit(s) or mismatching gear and now bashes ALL KZ`s - that`s not right. True, majority of KZ are V-shaped and near-neutral/recessed mids but not all. I will take deeper look into this Marshall Mode if I have time but fast search shows them nothing special.





Slater said:


> I totally see your points. It's kind of redundant when numerous IEMs sound "basically the same". I get that.
> 
> You gotta remember, some of it is collecting for the sake of collecting. Some of it is form factor (the HDS3 is different form factor/size/etc to the ATE which is different to the EDR1, even though all 3 sound "basically similar".
> 
> ...



Yup! I'm kind of a mister poopy pants here. I'm not having it with KZ. I'm sorta glad that I got to try a chunk of the KZ lineup to form my own opinion. 

Personally, I don't think you can blindly recommend KZ to everybody. They're a bit harsh sounding compared to the usual fare from Sennheiser, Shure, Beats or AKG. But they're so cheap anyways. And that's how you end up with 3 or 5 different pairs.


----------



## Slater

kokakolia said:


> Personally, I don't think you can blindly recommend KZ to everybody.



That's why I don't.

No more than 30 minutes ago I just recommended BossHifi B3 to a member who was looking for specific things.

And when it's appropriate, I've recommended just about every non-KZ IEM I own at one point or another, including Rock Zircon, MEMT X5, Einsear T2, VSonic GR07, Vsonic vsd5s, Magaosi K3 Pro, Pioneer CH9T, UiiSii CM5, MoreBlue DM8, VJJB K4, SoundMAGIC E10c, Xiaomi Pro HD, Fonge T01, etc etc


----------



## jaydm99 (Nov 28, 2017)

So the ZSR will be a 22 ohm, triple driver (2BA + 1DD in a dedicated crossover network) IEM. Expected price is around the same as the ZS5 when it was launched.






And it's not the ZS3 hybrid, as @Slater already stated a few posts before.





And the ZS3 hybrid/ZS4 will use the same shell as the original ZS3


----------



## Dariusdd

Hi again, I'm the previous unlucky guy with the broken ZS6s, ZS5s and zircons. It seems like GearBest is willing to refund me, but compared to last time (when I refunded the ZS5s after they broke in 11 days) they added this new line to their message:
"Please note that these are all exceptional solutions and will be recorded in our system. Such solutions will not apply to future orders. "
Guess I won't make any more risky purchases off GB any time soon.


----------



## larry piencenaves

hey guys new to this thread, just bought the zs3 and i liked it, so i also bought the silver cable for it, the only problem is that i ordered the silver cable version for the zst (those angled one)..my question is that will this cable still works on my zs3? does it have the same pin connectors?


----------



## vector84

kokakolia said:


> Except that...some lower frequencies only show up at higher volumes. And that won't fix the recessed mids either. In the end you'll just get more treble that way.


That seems like it might be a quirk of your personal hearing... since yes, as per equal loudness research, lowering the volume will fix recessed mids for most of the population, and they end up with *less* treble, not more...


----------



## nkramer

larry piencenaves said:


> hey guys new to this thread, just bought the zs3 and i liked it, so i also bought the silver cable for it, the only problem is that i ordered the silver cable version for the zst (those angled one)..my question is that will this cable still works on my zs3? does it have the same pin connectors?



shouldn't be a problem. believe the only difference is the angle.

just make sure you have plugged in the right way. (see the link in slaters signature)
*Click to verify that your KZ 2-pin cable isn't plugged in backwards: *https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067​


----------



## larry piencenaves

nkramer said:


> shouldn't be a problem. believe the only difference is the angle.
> 
> just make sure you have plugged in the right way. (see the link in slaters signature)
> *Click to verify that your KZ 2-pin cable isn't plugged in backwards: *https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/k...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067​




phew, what a relief thanks man, cause ive been noticing the angled version are somewhat wider than the straight ones, im afraid it might not fit the zs3, waste of money if that happens


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

westsenkovec said:


> Where?
> Did you get the black version?



From Gearbest. I got the red version. Though black was also available at $20.
Keep a regular check on this thread by George from Gearbest. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/11-...eceiver-12-99-xiaomi-mi-lyej02lm-7-99.832367/
He posts good discount coupons on varied audio stuff on a daily basis.


----------



## RomStar

Nolaughingzone said:


> A good comprehensive review. Thanks for sharing. Cheers!


Thanks a lot for the kind words 

I initially had no expectations of the Swings, and got them after digging around another thread (Best sub $100 chinese earphones). I thought they looked nice, and i couldn't find any reviews of them online. I took the jump and it was very well worth it (Note: These are not the same as Tingo Ie800, no clue how they compare)

I tried being as objective and unbiased as i could and i must say, this truly is an amazing time to be a chifi/audio fan. So so many great things around and being announced, such as the ZSR to the rumored ZST Pro/Zs7 (10 driver). So far having a blast, learning and experimenting with new gear and the people here


----------



## CoiL (Nov 28, 2017)

Slater said:


> That's why I don't.
> 
> No more than 30 minutes ago I just recommended BossHifi B3 to a member who was looking for specific things.
> 
> And when it's appropriate, I've recommended just about every non-KZ IEM I own at one point or another, including Rock Zircon, MEMT X5, Einsear T2, VSonic GR07, Vsonic vsd5s, Magaosi K3 Pro, Pioneer CH9T, UiiSii CM5, MoreBlue DM8, VJJB K4, SoundMAGIC E10c, Xiaomi Pro HD, Fonge T01, etc etc



So, what would You recommend to me as upgrade to ZS5v1&ATE FF-mod with similar imaging/soundstage? I`ve been curious about 100-150$ price bracket IEMs long time now but many of them fall out after reading some impressions/reviews from trusted reviwers I follow. So far there has been only few left on my radar - TK 9tail, AAW Nebula 2 and maybe few other candidates that I still need to research more. AAW N2 seems very interesting but its price is little high compared to LZ A4, IT03 etc. and I don`t know if they justify itself. CH9T seems interesting too but I prefer over-ear wearing and rather overear-shells.


----------



## bsoplinger (Nov 28, 2017)

Call me confused...

_The ZS5 came out with 2BA + 1DD, no crossover and all speakers full range, ie V1
KZ then changed to using a crossover limiting all drivers, ie V2
KZ then made a metal shelled version ZS6.

Not surprisingly the ZS5 V2 and ZS6 sound very similar. 

Now they're going to release yet another 2BA + 1DD? Not to be a wise acre but why? What am I missing here? Different tuning? Different sized drivers?_

Edit: talk about confused. With all the talk about the pair of BAs in the ZS5 and ZS6 I never caught the fact that it had 2 dynamic drivers.


----------



## vladstef

bsoplinger said:


> Call me confused...
> 
> The ZS5 came out with 2BA + 1DD, no crossover and all speakers full range, ie V1
> KZ then changed to using a crossover limiting all drivers, ie V2
> ...



ZS5v1 has 2DD and 2BA drivers, but it uses 2 different types of BA drivers. With V2 and ZS6 they removed a BA from the body and added one more in the nozzle (so now it's 2 of the same BAs). There were talks about crossover and some graphs about impedance and similar stuff. Essentially, ZS6 is supposed to be technically more advanced, except that they messed up treble by not controlling BAs properly.
All of the other IEMs use same drivers as ZS5 and ZS6, except that they remove some and then combine. I think that ZSR is probably going to be using same treble canon BAs in the nozzle and probably just keep the big dynamic driver from ZS5 and ZS6. This is just a guess.


----------



## HiFiChris

bsoplinger said:


> [...] The ZS5 came out with 2BA + 1DD, [...]



Not right - the ZS5 and ZS6 have always been four driver hybrid IEMs (2x DD + 2x BA).


----------



## nkramer

larry piencenaves said:


> phew, what a relief thanks man, cause ive been noticing the angled version are somewhat wider than the straight ones, im afraid it might not fit the zs3, waste of money if that happens



was just now comparing the two. you are correct. the angled connector from ZST is a little larger (both width & length) than the straight connector from ZS3

- the ZST connector may not seat completely in the ZS3 but should be enough to make contact (my ZS3 is pulled apart so i can't confirm)
- other option would be to shave the ZST connector slightly so it seats properly. shouldn't be hard if you're handy with an exacto knife (just note polarity before cutting, ...note the placement of the "U" shape)

i'm sure others have done something similar and can lend some insight.


----------



## vector84

vladstef said:


> All of the other IEMs use same drivers as ZS5 and ZS6, except that they remove some and then combine.


Kind of true but more accurately... I think KZ has some other DDs besides the two they use in those, and there's at least two different models of BAs they use - model 1205 is the nozzle BA in the ZS5v1, and I think the ZST(?), model 30095 is the nozzle BAs in the ZS5v2/ZS6/ES3 and the buried BA in the ZS5v1.


----------



## larry piencenaves

nkramer said:


> was just now comparing the two. you are correct. the angled connector from ZST is a little larger (both width & length) than the straight connector from ZS3
> 
> - the ZST connector may not seat completely in the ZS3 but should be enough to make contact (my ZS3 is pulled apart so i can't confirm)
> - other option would be to shave the ZST connector slightly so it seats properly. shouldn't be hard if you're handy with an exacto knife (just note polarity before cutting, ...note the placement of the "U" shape)
> ...




i dont want to ruin the looks of the cable, so i think i might just order the zs3 silver cable version. ill just resell the angled one when it arrives.


----------



## nkramer

larry piencenaves said:


> i dont want to ruin the looks of the cable, so i think i might just order the zs3 silver cable version. ill just resell the angled one when it arrives.



it wouldn't change the looks. the part that you would need to trim is the piece that goes into the recess of the shell. so it wouldn't be seen anyway.


----------



## larry piencenaves

nkramer said:


> it wouldn't change the looks. the part that you would need to trim is the piece that goes into the recess of the shell. so it wouldn't be seen anyway.




my other problem is that i dont have an exacto knife right now, i only have some cutters, i dont think it will do the job, i hope someone here enlightens us and share some insight about this


----------



## bsoplinger

larry piencenaves said:


> my other problem is that i dont have an exacto knife right now, i only have some cutters, i dont think it will do the job, i hope someone here enlightens us and share some insight about this


It is a rather soft plastic. I'd bet that a decent paring knife would work just fine. Slow steady without too much pressure.


----------



## larry piencenaves

bsoplinger said:


> It is a rather soft plastic. I'd bet that a decent paring knife would work just fine. Slow steady without too much pressure.





oh i see, thanks man


----------



## bartzky (Nov 28, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Thanks! Wonder if You bother to take another measurement of ZS6 after some "burn-in" time to see if there are differences?


Some burn-in time later I can now present the the not so astonishing results 

The first measurement was done at approx. <1h playtime, the second one about 20-30h of burn-in later. Each channel was placed in the coupler and measured 4 individual times the reduce the effects of positioning. The final measurements are averages over all measurements and channels, so 8 individual measurements total.

"No burn-In" in green, "burn-in" in blue:






As can be seen the burn-in has changed nothing. Before commenting with something like "but there's less treble above 10 kHz!", take a look at this graph:





The above graph shows 4 individual measurements of the left earpiece after burn-in. As the earpiece was taken out and placed again before every measurement, small deviations in the FR occur because of a slightly different positioning. High frequencies are particularly sensitive to this effect. I can absolutely not ensure that the positioning before and after burn-in is the same, hence the small deviations are to be attributed to the positioning in the coupler rather than to burn-in. Mind that temperature and other environmental influences do affect measurements as well.

I gonna tag @Brooko, @castleofargh and @hakuzen here as I think you guys might enjoy some "burn-in" measurements 

PS: THD measurements didn't change either.


----------



## Slater (Nov 28, 2017)

CoiL said:


> So, what would You recommend to me as upgrade to ZS5v1&ATE FF-mod with similar imaging/soundstage? I`ve been curious about 100-150$ price bracket IEMs long time now but many of them fall out after reading some impressions/reviews from trusted reviwers I follow. So far there has been only few left on my radar - TK 9tail, AAW Nebula 2 and maybe few other candidates that I still need to research more. AAW N2 seems very interesting but its price is little high compared to LZ A4, IT03 etc. and I don`t know if they justify itself. CH9T seems interesting too but I prefer over-ear wearing and rather overear-shells.



Unfortunately, I can't help you with those questions - I have no IEM gear in that price range (yet), nor have I heard any of the gear you mentioned on your radar.

@crabdog or @peter123 would be good sources to check with - they play with mid-price ChiFi gear like you're talking.

I definitely love my Pioneer CH9T though! And I do have Magaosi K5 on the way (which WILL be my 1st IEM gear in that price range).


----------



## Slater

bartzky said:


> Some burn-in time later I can now present the the not so astonishing results
> 
> The first measurement was done at approx. <1h playtime, the second one about 20-30h of burn-in later. Each channel was placed in the coupler and measured 4 individual times the reduce the effects of positioning. The final measurements are averages over all measurements and channels, so 8 individual measurements total.
> 
> ...



Nice job!


----------



## ivo001

How much longer till my KZ ZS5 arrive? Anticipation is killing me! (ordered 8 nov)


----------



## HiFiChris

bartzky said:


> As can be seen the burn-in has changed nothing.



Not all that much surprising, is it?


----------



## hakuzen

bartzky said:


> Some burn-in time later I can now present the the not so astonishing results
> 
> The first measurement was done at approx. <1h playtime, the second one about 20-30h of burn-in later. Each channel was placed in the coupler and measured 4 individual times the reduce the effects of positioning. The final measurements are averages over all measurements and channels, so 8 individual measurements total.
> 
> ...



thanks! results are like expected 
in my record, i've only experienced slight differences with some iems for the first 10-20 minutes (but didn't measure them right out of the box and then, so even in these cases the cause could be fast brain burn-in) .


----------



## crabdog

CoiL said:


> So, what would You recommend to me as upgrade to ZS5v1&ATE FF-mod with similar imaging/soundstage? I`ve been curious about 100-150$ price bracket IEMs long time now but many of them fall out after reading some impressions/reviews from trusted reviwers I follow. So far there has been only few left on my radar - TK 9tail, AAW Nebula 2 and maybe few other candidates that I still need to research more. AAW N2 seems very interesting but its price is little high compared to LZ A4, IT03 etc. and I don`t know if they justify itself. CH9T seems interesting too but I prefer over-ear wearing and rather overear-shells.


Well, as you probably know I'm a big fan of the 9tail. That's a good option if you like a fairly smooth presentation. From what I've read about the ZS5 though I think it would sound vastly different (I don't have KZ models after ZST colorful).

The Alpha & Delta is pretty awesome. They're standard cylinder shape but can be worn over ear.

Other leaning towards bright with soundstage are the TFZ Exclusive King and Series 4.


----------



## Superluc

bartzky said:


> As the earpiece was taken out and placed again before every measurement, small deviations in the FR occur because of a slightly different positioning. High frequencies are particularly sensitive to this effect. I can absolutely not ensure that the positioning before and after burn-in is the same, hence the small deviations are to be attributed to the positioning in the coupler rather than to burn-in. Mind that temperature and other environmental influences do affect measurements as well.



A range of 5db on the 10khz peak just because of a slightly different positioning ? Damn... now we know why some, me included, have feel a difference and think mistakenly that it was the burn-in.

Oh well, thanks to have pointed that, it was very interesting.


----------



## oyobass

bartzky said:


> Some burn-in time later I can now present the the not so astonishing results
> 
> The first measurement was done at approx. <1h playtime, the second one about 20-30h of burn-in later. Each channel was placed in the coupler and measured 4 individual times the reduce the effects of positioning. The final measurements are averages over all measurements and channels, so 8 individual measurements total.
> 
> ...


Because... Science!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Well at least I know I can skip the ZSR now.


----------



## Slater (Nov 28, 2017)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Well at least I know I can skip the ZSR now.



1DD+2BA - It's gonna be the ZST on steroids!


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> It looks like it's gonna be the ZST on steroids!



Or a ZS5v2 with even more recessed mids , who knows..


----------



## Saoshyant

SomeGuyDude said:


> Well at least I know I can skip the ZSR now.



I'm buying green without any hesitation.


----------



## kokakolia

Saoshyant said:


> Just because it's V shaped doesn't make it cheap.  It just means it's a sound sig you don't enjoy.  This doesn't make it inherently bad.  I personally find neutral to be a little boring, but that just means it doesn't suit me, that's all.



It's inherently bad for me. My musical preferences are indie, folk and alternative. Having recessed mids makes my music sound bad.


----------



## paulindss

With the removal of the ba from the shell to the nozzle, as some people was complaining before that was no 4 functioning drivers, KZ seems to hear the feedback from us. That gives a chance that zsr will be different tuned than zs6. I'm only hoping, anyway.


----------



## Saoshyant

kokakolia said:


> It's inherently bad for me. My musical preferences are indie, folk and alternative. Having recessed mids makes my music sound bad.



Our musical tastes are pretty similar, and I have to disagree.  V shaped doesn't always mean bad mids, it just means they don't take front stage.  Some music I listen to like Portishead just doesn't sound right to me with more neutral sounding sigs.  Honestly, you might want to get into earbuds, as they've really improved the last couple years.  Due to their form factor, they tend to be more balanced overall.  They also have a few of incredible value/performance in the low cost range.  If you want a thread link, just let me know.


----------



## bartzky (Nov 28, 2017)

@HiFiChris and @hakuzen: Yes, really nothing one wouldn't expect 

On a slightly different topic: I've attached a file that can be used with EQ APO to gather the effect of a 64 Ohm impedance adapter with the ZS6. That might be handy to do quick comparisons or for everyone that hasn't the appropriate resistors on hand. Just load the file via the include-dialog of EQ APO.

The file will give your ZS6 the light green FR:







Edit: Attaching .txt doesn't seem to work, so I've uploaded the file here: KZ ZS6 64 Ohm EQ APO.txt


----------



## SomeGuyDude

kokakolia said:


> It's inherently bad for me. My musical preferences are indie, folk and alternative. Having recessed mids makes my music sound bad.



Have you tried the Marshall Mode? I heard the Marshall Mode is a Marshall Mode and it Marshall Modes really well.


----------



## Slater

SomeGuyDude said:


> Have you tried the Marshall Mode? I heard the Marshall Mode is a Marshall Mode and it Marshall Modes really well.



Curse you - you just made me spit coffee out of my nose


----------



## Superluc

SomeGuyDude said:


> Have you tried the Marshall Mode? I heard the Marshall Mode is a Marshall Mode and it Marshall Modes really well.


----------



## oyobass

SomeGuyDude said:


> Have you tried the Marshall Mode? I heard the Marshall Mode is a Marshall Mode and it Marshall Modes really well.


I haven't tried the Marshall Mode yet, but have you tried _Marshall à la Mode_? 

It is wonderful, but you have to eat it quickly. Lethal voltages can be present if you let the ice cream melt into the amplifier's tubes or power supply...


----------



## nkramer

oyobass said:


> I haven't tried the Marshall Mode yet, but have you tried _Marshall à la Mode_?
> 
> It is wonderful, but you have to eat it quickly. Lethal voltages can be present if you let the ice cream melt into the amplifier's tubes or power supply...


----------



## oyobass

nkramer said:


>


The famous _Marshall à la Mode _Mod... sounds pretty cool. A little smoother and sweeter than stock...


----------



## groucho69

I prefer Marshall Eriksen


----------



## bartzky

Marshal Montgomery commands to stop this bad puns.


----------



## oyobass

bartzky said:


> Marshal Montgomery commands to stop this bad puns.



I can't marshal the will to stop.

Ever try the Depeche Mode?



I Just Can't Get Enough.


----------



## Saoshyant

Getting way too off topic.  So, I know at least one person is turned off by the ZSR.  Is it due to driver configuration?


----------



## Mellowship

Saoshyant said:


> Getting way too off topic.  So, I know at least one person is turned off by the ZSR.  Is it due to driver configuration?


To me it's because it seems to add nothing new to the KZ portfolio... Same old same old.


----------



## Saoshyant

I am waiting for impressions first, but just because it's not an increase of drivers doesn't necessarily mean there will be no improvement either.


----------



## Mellowship

Saoshyant said:


> I am waiting for impressions first, but just because it's not an increase of drivers doesn't necessarily mean there will be no improvement either.


I also don't think more means better. Nonetheless, more sells better... I wish kz just implemented the single DD better.


----------



## Wiljen (Nov 28, 2017)

I was hoping for a nearly neutral take on the signature not another deep V.   I really like a bit of extra punch on the very low end (sub-bass), a bit light in the mid-bass, good solid mids, and a bit of extra energy and sparkle up top so the last few from KZ haven't checked the boxes for me.  I keep hoping for a chi-fi with a near reference signature but for now I'll keep listening to things like the AKG n40 when I am just listening for pleasure and not reviewing something.


----------



## hakuzen

bartzky said:


> @HiFiChris and @hakuzen: Yes, really nothing one wouldn't expect
> 
> On a slightly different topic: I've attached a file that can be used with EQ APO to gather the effect of a 64 Ohm impedance adapter with the ZS6. That might be handy to do quick comparisons or for everyone that hasn't the appropriate resistors on hand. Just load the file via the include-dialog of EQ APO.
> 
> ...



yes, it works! easier way to test different loads than playing with resistors.
it's similar to what i got when using a physical impedance adapter; it was a 75 ohm adapter, so got bigger highs cut. when using foam tips, the total cut left the highs very near to zs5v1 response.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787


----------



## vladstef

hakuzen said:


> yes, it works! easier way to test different loads than playing with resistors.
> it's similar to what i got when using a physical impedance adapter; it was a 75 ohm adapter, so got bigger highs cut. when using foam tips, the total cut left the highs very near to zs5v1 response.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787



That's crazy. For me, ZS5v1 was already overly ambitious with highs, to put it very lightly, and this is from a guy who enjoys slightly brighter headphones. This wasn't a deal breaker though, but I suspect that it would've been with ZS6.
For some reason I suspect that future KZ flagship products will maintain these treble nukes in the nozzles, looks like ZSR probably has them as well.

I've switched hyping and expectations from smartphones (which are very boring lately) to Chi-fi earphones. KZ failing to bring out proper flagship would be the equivalent to smartphones losing headphone jacks... as if 2016/17 can't get any worse.


----------



## hakuzen

vladstef said:


> That's crazy. For me, ZS5v1 was already overly ambitious with highs, to put it very lightly, and this is from a guy who enjoys slightly brighter headphones. This wasn't a deal breaker though, but I suspect that it would've been with ZS6.
> For some reason I suspect that future KZ flagship products will maintain these treble nukes in the nozzles, looks like ZSR probably has them as well.
> 
> I've switched hyping and expectations from smartphones (which are very boring lately) to Chi-fi earphones. KZ failing to bring out proper flagship would be the equivalent to smartphones losing headphone jacks... as if 2016/17 can't get any worse.


don't be so pessimistic, bro: imagine kz decided to put the 2 BAs in the nozzle, together with a crossover, when doing zs6 (a metallic version of zs5), after watching the reviews about zs5. now imagine kz is not aware of reviews about zs6 and their exaggerated highs. then you can bet ZSR won't have treble nukes; chosen BAs and crossover will be better tuned than zs6 to prevent it.
anyway, i got some pairs of zs6 (minimal eq and you get fun good resolution phones for cheap).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Saoshyant said:


> Getting way too off topic.  So, I know at least one person is turned off by the ZSR.  Is it due to driver configuration?



Mostly because I really want to see KZ moving upwards, not going back down in the lower cost tier. They have tons of products under $30, why not take a stab up in the $100 area? Make a new flagship, be adventurous.


----------



## thejoker13

SomeGuyDude said:


> Mostly because I really want to see KZ moving upwards, not going back down in the lower cost tier. They have tons of products under $30, why not take a stab up in the $100 area? Make a new flagship, be adventurous.


I agree with this 100%. KZ helped me out in this audio adventure, but I've been highly turned off with their recent offerings. I say bring on the budget flagship that's truly a midfi killer! For now though, I'm out and not ordering  anything else from them until they raise the stakes.


----------



## Spelaeus

I eagerly await the day that KZ finally gets sick of engineering advice from unqualified youtubers and releases the ZSTroll. Just jam five or six identical BAs in the nozzle. Stagger them behind each other if need be. Be sure to have one or two firing backwards into the housing which of course looks identical to the Marshall Mode.


----------



## maxxevv

SomeGuyDude said:


> Mostly because I really want to see KZ moving upwards, not going back down in the lower cost tier. They have tons of products under $30, why not take a stab up in the $100 area? Make a new flagship, be adventurous.



They are just being pragmatic. 

Typically, mass market items correctly priced will outsell "halo" products 100: 1.  And by percentage margin, have better margins due to the savings from marketing, and customer service as well as packaging. 

We all want out Ferrari's and Bugatti's for cars but hey ... the most profit car company is Toyota.  KZ wants to be Toyota. Their flagship at this point is still the Corona,  the Camry hasn't been born yet. Until then, we won't see them spawning a Lexus.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Got my MEMT X5 today.  Sound-wise, the KZ ZS5 v1 is probably my preference, being a bit more balanced across the spectrum.  X5 has more bass, while the ZS5 has more mids and treble sparkle.  The MEMT X5 are impressive for their size though.  The ZS5 is just huge and can look a bit ridiculous to onlookers.

Still waiting for my ZS5 (presumably v2) from GearBest from the 11/11 sale.


----------



## oyobass

My apologies for getting carried away with the bad puns earlier today. I have a problem with that, just ask my wife,lol.
Back on topic:
My ZS6 on duty as monitors for Tuesday night rehearsal, with the large New Bee foams turned backwards to get a decent fit.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

maxxevv said:


> They are just being pragmatic.
> 
> Typically, mass market items correctly priced will outsell "halo" products 100: 1.  And by percentage margin, have better margins due to the savings from marketing, and customer service as well as packaging.
> 
> We all want out Ferrari's and Bugatti's for cars but hey ... the most profit car company is Toyota.  KZ wants to be Toyota. Their flagship at this point is still the Corona,  the Camry hasn't been born yet. Until then, we won't see them spawning a Lexus.


I'll be honest, I was wanting to quibble with your premise until you dropped the Corona. 
That's a mad deep, old school JDM type metaphor and spot on...I'll go you a little bit deeper, the ZS5 is a corona, the ZS6 is a Corona Deluxe. Same car, better brightwork.


----------



## bsoplinger

oyobass said:


> … My ZS6 on duty as monitors for Tuesday night rehearsal, with the large New Bee foams turned backwards to get a decent fit.


Those green ones look really good. I wish I'd grabbed them while they were available.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> My apologies for getting carried away with the bad puns earlier today. I have a problem with that, just ask my wife,lol.
> Back on topic:
> My ZS6 on duty as monitors for Tuesday night rehearsal, with the large New Bee foams turned backwards to get a decent fit.


I've seen you mention this reversed foam tip nonsensical stuff before...so I tried it on my right ear, my difficult can't get a good fit ear hole....
so far so good.
But not on the other side...so I have one medium sized New Bee red foam in my left ear, and one large sized New Bee red foam backwards in my right.
I did NOT know it was going to be this complicated when I got into this chinese BA thing...


----------



## NeonHD

I think it's fair to say that the KZ ED8 and ED10 are dead, can't find them anywhere to buy. Damn wish I found out about KZ earlier so I could get that full experience


----------



## oyobass (Nov 29, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I've seen you mention this reversed foam tip nonsensical stuff before...so I tried it on my right ear, my difficult can't get a good fit ear hole....
> so far so good.
> But not on the other side...so I have one medium sized New Bee red foam in my left ear, and one large sized New Bee red foam backwards in my right.
> I did NOT know it was going to be this complicated when I got into this chinese BA thing...


I have mismatched ear openings as well. Makes it kind of hard to settle on just one size/brand of tips for both, eh?
Edit: On the bright side, you'll get more use out of the New Bee S/M/L pack than the average guy...


----------



## oyobass

bsoplinger said:


> Those green ones look really good. I wish I'd grabbed them while they were available.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075...dpPl=1&dpID=41b-JsOPBoL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1
6 left on Amazon, but you'll pay nearly$50 for the privilege of buying green...


----------



## HiFiChris

NeonHD said:


> I think it's fair to say that the KZ ED8 and ED10 are dead, can't find them anywhere to buy. Damn wish I found out about KZ earlier so I could get that full experience



Don't know about the ED8, but I think you aren't missing much by not owning the ED10. Imo one of their weaker IEMs.


----------



## EISENbricher

CoiL said:


> Glad You like Your ZS5! Did You get v1 or v2?
> Anyway, only KZ IEM that has surpassed my ATE FF-mod (to me, with my gear, music, hearing etc.) and so far best overall KZ IEM to me (haven`t tried ZSE, ZS6 and some oldies).
> It has its slight fault but it is so small that doesn`t really bother (bass kick and tightness).



I agree that it's the best KZ I've heard till date (don't have ZS6 so no comments on that one). 
The one I received is V2, has both the BAs placed in the nozzle. Earlier I was annoyed at the sibilance, but after some burn-in and some experiments (Sony hybrids + cotton stuffing) they are sounding much mellower, still keeping sharp, precise and tight sound.


----------



## EISENbricher

ivo001 said:


> When I search it in the play store it looks like its only in chinese?


Mine shows up in English. 
Posting the link : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onemore.app.smartheadset.android&hl=en


----------



## bsoplinger

EISENbricher said:


> Mine shows up in English.
> Posting the link : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onemore.app.smartheadset.android&hl=en


I downloaded this when I first saw it mentioned in this thread. Its a nice idea and seems a decent enough implementation but do they really expect you to not use your phone for 4 days or however long it takes for the cycle? Or since it has both a pause function and can keep track of multiple earphones that you'll plug in and let the program run overnight then pause it for your normal daily use then plug back in at night, etc? Because that'd extend the 4 day cycle to 12 assuming that you're without your phone for 8 hours a night.


----------



## EISENbricher

bsoplinger said:


> I downloaded this when I first saw it mentioned in this thread. Its a nice idea and seems a decent enough implementation but do they really expect you to not use your phone for 4 days or however long it takes for the cycle? Or since it has both a pause function and can keep track of multiple earphones that you'll plug in and let the program run overnight then pause it for your normal daily use then plug back in at night, etc? Because that'd extend the 4 day cycle to 12 assuming that you're without your phone for 8 hours a night.


You can pause and resume. Even if you terminate/exit the program without pause, it's not an issue. Next time when you plug in the earphone, it'll begin from the exact time, step and will show you the remaining time.

Like you mentioned I used to keep ZS5 on burn-in during night times as the phone would be in use at daytime.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Unfortunately, I can't help you with those questions - I have no IEM gear in that price range (yet), nor have I heard any of the gear you mentioned on your radar.
> @crabdog or @peter123 would be good sources to check with - they play with mid-price ChiFi gear like you're talking.
> I definitely love my Pioneer CH9T though! And I do have Magaosi K5 on the way (which WILL be my 1st IEM gear in that price range).



But how is CH9T compared to your modded ATE and ZS5v1? Does CH9T have similar imaging(out-of-headstage) and soundstage(large with good frontal depth).

I`m already following crab, b9s and peter long time and I know their own individual "quirks" about sound they like, so, I can "translate" their reviews&impressions into "my experience and taste".


bartzky said:


> Some burn-in time later I can now present the the not so astonishing results
> 
> The first measurement was done at approx. <1h playtime, the second one about 20-30h of burn-in later. Each channel was placed in the coupler and measured 4 individual times the reduce the effects of positioning. The final measurements are averages over all measurements and channels, so 8 individual measurements total.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Just what I was afraid - no real effects of burn-in - rather brain-burn-in and foamies (which both I don`t like).
Going to stick with my ZS5v1 and wait for green ZSR.


----------



## vladstef

I don't think it's a good practice to just look at the FR and determine that burn in is not effective. The bigger change might be happening when driver is playing complex sounds and not just sine wave, but it is still probably a minimal change in sound.
I've noticed a slight difference with ZS5v1 in the first 30 min of listening and it is probably similar to ZS6 given the same drivers - the bass got slightly tighter. Outside of that, I couldn't notice any sound changes, especially not treble which was the same 100h in as it was on first listen.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 29, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Got my MEMT X5 today.  Sound-wise, the KZ ZS5 v1 is probably my preference, being a bit more balanced across the spectrum.  X5 has more bass, while the ZS5 has more mids and treble sparkle.  The MEMT X5 are impressive for their size though.  The ZS5 is just huge and can look a bit ridiculous to onlookers.
> 
> Still waiting for my ZS5 (presumably v2) from GearBest from the 11/11 sale.



I bought the MEMT X5 for sleeping because of the small size.  I am able to do that... even on my side.  I was not too worried about the sound because as someone in here (or another thread) said "what does the sleeping brain know?"   Anyway, like you are, I was quite impressed with the sound quality.  But what does the tired brain know?  lol

Because this is actually the KZ thread, I will say that my KZ ZS6 (green)  are definitely superior but I could never sleep with them!

My companions when my husband is working nights:


----------



## Vytautas

Does using 64 Ohm adapter has negative affects on SQ? Is it a good way to make ZS6 less sharp? Which one to use?



bartzky said:


> @HiFiChris and @hakuzen: Yes, really nothing one wouldn't expect
> 
> On a slightly different topic: I've attached a file that can be used with EQ APO to gather the effect of a 64 Ohm impedance adapter with the ZS6. That might be handy to do quick comparisons or for everyone that hasn't the appropriate resistors on hand. Just load the file via the include-dialog of EQ APO.
> 
> ...


----------



## kokakolia

Spelaeus said:


> I eagerly await the day that KZ finally gets sick of engineering advice from unqualified youtubers and releases the ZSTroll. Just jam five or six identical BAs in the nozzle. Stagger them behind each other if need be. Be sure to have one or two firing backwards into the housing which of course looks identical to the Marshall Mode.



Are you plotting murder on me?


----------



## Spelaeus

kokakolia said:


> Are you plotting murder on me?


I can barely manage to plot breakfast.


----------



## bartzky

Vytautas said:


> Does using 64 Ohm adapter has negative affects on SQ? Is it a good way to make ZS6 less sharp? Which one to use?


If the ZS6's upper treble is a bit too bright for your taste, a 64 Ohm (or similar values) will have a positive effect. It is indeed a good way to make the ZS6 less sharp, though it might not be effective enough for treble sensitive people.
If you know how to solder, you can easily build an adapter yourself. Otherwise you might find some DIYers that will build an adapter for you or find already assembled ones on eBay or similar places. You can search for a P to S converter (the thing for Etymotics' IEMs) as well. It's 75 Ohm and has about the same effect as 64 Ohm.


----------



## jmwreck

I just got my zs6 and all I can say is that I'm impressed by the presentation and soundstage, it's big (huge) enough for me to be satisfied. The treble peaks are there but it's bearable. The bass is deep and engaging. OT : Have you guys tried the Mpow bluetooth receiver? I'm listening to it right now while typing, together with my Xperia Z2 and Poweramp (tone on, bass and treble at 12:00 position), volume at 3:00 and EQ off, perfect combo as of the moment.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

maxxevv said:


> They are just being pragmatic.
> 
> Typically, mass market items correctly priced will outsell "halo" products 100: 1.  And by percentage margin, have better margins due to the savings from marketing, and customer service as well as packaging.
> 
> We all want out Ferrari's and Bugatti's for cars but hey ... the most profit car company is Toyota.  KZ wants to be Toyota. Their flagship at this point is still the Corona,  the Camry hasn't been born yet. Until then, we won't see them spawning a Lexus.



Sure, but the thing is KZ already has a ton of products in that price range. If you've got $20 to spend KZ's got you covered in several directions. 

I'm not asking for a Lexus or Ferrari, that's the Campfires and 64s of the world. I'm asking for a simple Mustang or a Challenger.


----------



## mbwilson111

jmwreck said:


> I just got my zs6 and all I can say is that I'm impressed by the presentation and soundstage



that was my immediate reaction... and I have found the treble to be beautiful and I am definitely not a treblehead.  

...and that bass! deep and engaging like you said.


----------



## Slater (Nov 29, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> I think it's fair to say that the KZ ED8 and ED10 are dead, can't find them anywhere to buy. Damn wish I found out about KZ earlier so I could get that full experience





HiFiChris said:


> Don't know about the ED8, but I think you aren't missing much by not owning the ED10. Imo one of their weaker IEMs.



Agreed. You're not missing anything with the ED10.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 29, 2017)

Slater, I got my ZS3. What mods did You do to them? Sorry, haven`t kept eye on ZS3 posts  Link to Your mod post maybe, please?
Soundwise, they are OOTB nothing special but not rubbish also, kinda typical V-shaped IEM but soundstage and imaging are quite ok.
But the SHELLS.... oh man, most comfort IEM I have ever tried! Definitely will mod them and use other drivers ;P I got glossy black ones.

Now I`m definitely waiting to buy green ZSR.


----------



## bsoplinger

I finally found foamies that work for me. The dealer @Slater recommended:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...-earphones-enhanced-bass-Ear/32741636522.html

tl;dr I got some in T200 and T300 size. These have nozzle diameters of 4.0mm and 4.5mm instead of the more typical T400 / T500 4.9mm size. I figured if the standard size ended up slipping off the smooth nozzle of my ZS6 (and much more expensive LZ A4) perhaps one with a slightly smaller diameter would do the trick. The dealer did great. I ordered 2 sets to cover the different options and asked for S, M and L in both T200 and T300 sizes with mixed colors. Got 4 larger plastic boxes with S and M and 2 smaller ones with L. And they stay on!!!  I can finally spend some time listening to the ZS6 without being uncomfortable. They squish way down and rebound slowly enough that they're easy to insert. I like them more than the New Bee brand. I'll report back if they don't last long or there's some other issues but I think these will be a winner for me. 

Short version… If you have issues with foamies staying behind in your ear canals try this seller and get tips in the smaller nozzle diameter(s).


----------



## nkramer

CoiL said:


> Slater, I got my ZS3. What mods did You do to them? Sorry, haven`t kept eye on ZS3 posts  Link to Your mod post maybe, please?
> Soundwise, they are OOTB nothing special but not rubbish also, kinda typical V-shaped IEM but soundstage and imaging are quite ok.
> But the SHELLS.... oh man, most comfort IEM I have ever tried! Definitely will mod them and use other drivers ;P I got glossy black ones.
> 
> Now I`m definitely waiting to buy green ZSR.



i really like the shells as well. has anybody successfully opened the shells without really messing up the seam where the 2 halves go together?


----------



## khighly

khighly said:


> First Impressions of ZS6:
> 
> Sounds like *hot garbage*. Built very well. Will update at the 7 day mark.



Here's a lesson as to why you should never trust first impressions, and because these are so cheap, just buy them yourselves.

Over the past week (even though I had an ear injury unrelated to IEM's) ZS6's have greatly improved. They sound like the ZS5v1's with a bit of a harsh high end. Over time your brain/ears adjust to it and while it still stays very prevalent, it does tone itself down. I find that it's a very narrow frequency range that really pings the ears, and some songs you have to turn down. $40 for this is worth it for the shells alone. 

I'll give a more detailed review later, but my ear still hasn't fully recovered.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 29, 2017)

nvm, I already found what Slater did to his ZS3. Will do that tomorrow. Wonder why the heck they did put that foam in there?

Btw, I`m not sure but maybe ZS3 has been updated - I got it with nice white cardboard box not like older ones in black.


----------



## Slater (Nov 29, 2017)

NeonHD said:


> I think it's fair to say that the KZ ED8 and ED10 are dead, can't find them anywhere to buy. Damn wish I found out about KZ earlier so I could get that full experience





CoiL said:


> Slater, I got my ZS3. What mods did You do to them? Sorry, haven`t kept eye on ZS3 posts  Link to Your mod post maybe, please?
> Soundwise, they are OOTB nothing special but not rubbish also, kinda typical V-shaped IEM but soundstage and imaging are quite ok.
> But the SHELLS.... oh man, most comfort IEM I have ever tried! Definitely will mod them and use other drivers ;P I got glossy black ones.
> 
> Now I`m definitely waiting to buy green ZSR.



Here you go buddy: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1161#post-13476376

Here's something interesting that I just noticed when I re-read my ZS3 foam mod post. At the bottom of the post I wrote this:

_"P.S. - To the advanced IEM builders/modders out there, as you can see from the exploded diagram this would be an excellent host for turning into a hybrid DD + BA. The shell is easy to open, it's comfortable as heck, and there's plenty of room inside for a crossover in the shell & a BA driver inside the nozzle tube. Looking at the above photo,* it almost looks as if KZ was planning that all along, and it wouldn't surprise me if a "ZS4" comes out as a hybrid using this same shell as they already have the shell tooling*."_

Spooky prediction! WooOOoooOOoo spoooOOoky haha



Also @CoiL, if you have the shell apart note that I already measured the shell for a driver swap. The stock driver is 8mm (the "red" one ie I think the same red one used in the ATE). There's a driver "frame" that will perfectly fit up to a 9mm driver. If you grind out the driver "frame", there's room for a 10mm driver. That opens up a lot of possibilities...


----------



## Slater (Nov 29, 2017)

nkramer said:


> i really like the shells as well. has anybody successfully opened the shells without really messing up the seam where the 2 halves go together?



I've had the shells open. I can't remember what I used - I think it was a thin metal guitar pick or maybe a non-serrated butter knife. A metal spudger tool would work also. You just gotta be sure to go slow and carefully all around the seam to break the glue seal

Once I had a look see of the inside (poking around, taking measurements, checking for crushed sound tubes, etc), I sealed them back up with a thin bead of Lazer Bond along the entire seam (of course making sure to leave the vent hole intact.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> nvm, I already found what Slater did to his ZS3. Will do that tomorrow. Wonder why the heck they did put that foam in there?
> 
> Btw, I`m not sure but maybe ZS3 has been updated - I got it with nice white cardboard box not like older ones in black.



Who knows. They are so much better without the foam. Why they would intentionally ADD veil and bloat and REMOVE clarity and better mids is beyond me.

Pretty cool that they are updated with the white box. Probably in preparation for the upcoming ZS4.

I wonder if they tweaked the ZS3 (in the white box) any? KZ loves quietly doing revisions without telling anyone...


----------



## oyobass

M


Slater said:


> Who knows. They are so much better without the foam. Why they would intentionally ADD veil and bloat and REMOVE clarity and better mids is beyond me.
> 
> Pretty cool that they are updated with the white box. Probably in preparation for the upcoming ZS4.
> 
> I wonder if they tweaked the ZS3 (in the white box) any? KZ loves quietly doing revisions without telling anyone...



My ZSTs received recently from Gearbest and Amazon had white boxes. I think it is just a new standard. 

They didn't have a different sound signature from those I had purchased earlier, so at least they don't seem to have any factory updates... the ZS3 could be an entirely different situation, though.


----------



## Saoshyant

Maybe it's time for me to buy a second ZS3 as I still have the original, so I can remove the foam and give it a go.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> …  I sealed them back up with a thin bead of Lazer Bond along the entire seam (of course making sure to leave the vent hole intact.


How did this work? I thought that type of glue used UV light to cure. How would the light get inside the opaque plastic shell?


----------



## Slater (Nov 29, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> How did this work? I thought that type of glue used UV light to cure. How would the light get inside the opaque plastic shell?



You run a micro bead of Lazer Bond all along the seam from the outside of the shell. You do it in sections, maybe 5mm at a time, until you’ve gone all the way around (obviously skipping the vent hole and the 2-pin plug areas).

Imagine the seam is like the Grand Canyon, and the plateau on each side of the Grand Canyon is the 2 halves of the outside of the shell. You fill the Grand Canyon in with Lazer Bond, until it’s level with the plateaus.

If that doesn’t make sense, I can take photos and show better. The ZS3 doesn’t generally photograph well at all, since it’s glossy black.


----------



## Slater

Saoshyant said:


> Maybe it's time for me to buy a second ZS3 as I still have the original, so I can remove the foam and give it a go.



They were $2.99 a week or 2 ago using a coupon code in the gearbest thread. So yeah, that’s a no brainer. Even if you don’t love them, it’s $3 freaking dollars. The cable and shells are worth that.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> But how is CH9T compared to your modded ATE and ZS5v1? Does CH9T have similar imaging(out-of-headstage) and soundstage(large with good frontal depth).
> 
> I`m already following crab, b9s and peter long time and I know their own individual "quirks" about sound they like, so, I can "translate" their reviews&impressions into "my experience and taste".
> 
> ...



I’ll have to get back to you on this. I destroyed my ATE a few weeks ago trying to Frankenstein on the ED9 nozzles.

The replacements are en route from gearbest. Then I’ll have to redo the FF mod.


----------



## AudioJunki3

My review of the KZ ZST can be found here! Excellent product for the price!

https://www.protonbar.com/audio/2017/11/27/kz-zst


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

bsoplinger said:


> I finally found foamies that work for me. The dealer @Slater recommended:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...-earphones-enhanced-bass-Ear/32741636522.html
> 
> tl;dr I got some in T200 and T300 size. These have nozzle diameters of 4.0mm and 4.5mm instead of the more typical T400 / T500 4.9mm size. I figured if the standard size ended up slipping off the smooth nozzle of my ZS6 (and much more expensive LZ A4) perhaps one with a slightly smaller diameter would do the trick. The dealer did great. I ordered 2 sets to cover the different options and asked for S, M and L in both T200 and T300 sizes with mixed colors. Got 4 larger plastic boxes with S and M and 2 smaller ones with L. And they stay on!!!  I can finally spend some time listening to the ZS6 without being uncomfortable. They squish way down and rebound slowly enough that they're easy to insert. I like them more than the New Bee brand. I'll report back if they don't last long or there's some other issues but I think these will be a winner for me.
> ...


good news. thanks for the feedback. I am going to order some of these when I need more tips.


----------



## Francisk

AudioJunki3 said:


> My review of the KZ ZST can be found here! Excellent product for the price!
> 
> https://www.protonbar.com/audio/2017/11/27/kz-zst


Very nice review but have you tried Comply T400 foam tips on the ZST? This will tone down the highs and make it sound much smoother. For me, the Comply T400 tips pairs very well with the ZST and makes it shine above it's asking price and put some of the more expensive IEMs to shame. There are some 3rd party T400 foam tips that works just as well as Comply foam tips. They're available at Gearbest and it's much cheaper than Comply foam tips.


----------



## nkramer

i actually have comply T200's on my ZSTs.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> I have mismatched ear openings as well. Makes it kind of hard to settle on just one size/brand of tips for both, eh?
> Edit: On the bright side, you'll get more use out of the New Bee S/M/L pack than the average guy...


You're right about that...I was having a heck of a time trying to get something that felt right ...it was a small epiphany realizing I have to treat them differently. And, yeah, I have the New Bee smalls on my work IEMs, and then the M/L - left/ right thing going on for my ZS5 and ZS3 so all the parts of the buffalo are being used.
but 
it does not look cool :


----------



## HungryPanda

If it sounds good it doesn't matter how it looks


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

HungryPanda said:


> If it sounds good it doesn't matter how it looks


sounding good is primary....looking cool isn't even secondary or tertiary...but I _like _when things look cool.


----------



## mbwilson111

Cruelhand Luke said:


> but I _like _when things look cool



There has been a lot of talk in here about the looks and colors of various iems...and,in other threads about buds and headphones. For me it is part of it.  I always look in the mirror when I get a new thing.  LOL.

I bet I am not the only one

...listening to Radiohead right now...


----------



## Moys

Hello, so I'm looking for iems and I've settled on getting the KZ zs6. I'm looking for details, imaging and clarity, it seems to match with these points. At first I intended to get the hf5 from etymotic but they are too expensive. The KZ actually look better to me, and everything else interests me.

I'm thinking of getting the upgraded silver cable as well as the OSTRY OS100~300 tips to tame the treble. I'll be using the iems with a portable dac and amp ( nothing fancy but should perfom decently )

Could someone help me with that choice, right tips? right iem choice? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

mbwilson111 said:


> There has been a lot of talk in here about the looks and colors of various iems...and,in other threads about buds and headphones. For me it is part of it.  I always look in the mirror when I get a new thing.  LOL.
> 
> I bet I am not the only one
> 
> ...listening to Radiohead right now...


of course you're not the only...I'm a beard-faced tile setter and I still checked so see how cool I looked in my ZS3s. 
I have some vintage Pioneer SE305 that I love but I don't wear them out of the house because I look like I am in Katamari Damacy with them on.


----------



## oyobass

Moys said:


> Hello, so I'm looking for iems and I've settled on getting the KZ zs6. I'm looking for details, imaging and clarity, it seems to match with these points. At first I intended to get the hf5 from etymotic but they are too expensive. The KZ actually look better to me, and everything else interests me.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the upgraded silver cable as well as the OSTRY OS100~300 tips to tame the treble. I'll be using the iems with a portable dac and amp ( nothing fancy but should perfom decently )
> 
> Could someone help me with that choice, right tips? right iem choice? Thanks in advance.


It is hard to tell someone else what would work best for them, but the items you listed sound like a great package to me.

Downside: if you have smaller ears, the ZS6 might be uncomfortable. The exaggerated highs take a little time to get used to, although the foam tips you listed go a long way towards taming the treble cannon effect.

These are pretty amazing earphones for the price. I think you'll be happy with them.


----------



## JayceOoi

Yeah... KZ ZS6 @ $19.99 again with code - KZZS62. (start at 11am UTC sharp)
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Who knows. They are *so much better without the foam*. Why they would intentionally ADD veil and bloat and REMOVE clarity and better mids is beyond me.
> Pretty cool that they are updated with the white box. Probably in preparation for the upcoming ZS4.
> *I wonder if they tweaked the ZS3 (in the white box) any*? KZ loves quietly doing revisions without telling anyone...



Took out foams and meshes.... unfortunately, I can`t agree with ZS3 getting _so much better _. It is still V-shaped, warmish/soft and little muddy bass, boosted highs, littlebit recessed mids compared to highs&lows. They are not bad sounding though, but still pretty mediocre. 


Slater said:


> The stock driver is 8mm (*the "red" one ie I think the same red one used in the ATE*). There's a driver "frame" that will perfectly fit up to a 9mm driver. If you grind out the driver "frame", there's room for a 10mm driver. That opens up a lot of possibilities...


By the sound and looks - no, I don`t think they are same drivers at all.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Took out foams and meshes.... unfortunately, I can`t agree with ZS3 getting _so much better _. It is still V-shaped, warmish/soft and little muddy bass, boosted highs, littlebit recessed mids compared to highs&lows. They are not bad sounding though, but still pretty mediocre.
> 
> By the sound and looks - no, I don`t think they are same drivers at all.



So what's your plan with them?


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## Vytautas (Nov 30, 2017)

Does anybody has made a sound comparison of ZS5v1, ZS5v2 vs ZS6?

Frequency response graphs on www.thephonograph.net shows that ZS6 has a very similar profile to ZST. What does it means? Is it more V-shaped?

Does ZS5v2 still has the biggest soundstage, are bit cold or it is more similar to ZST too (like ZS6)?


----------



## paulindss

Vytautas said:


> Does anybody has made a sound comparison of ZS5v1, ZS5v2 vs ZS6?
> 
> Frequency response graphs on www.thephonograph.net shows that ZS6 has a very similar profile to ZST. What does it means? Is it more V-shaped?
> 
> Does ZS5v2 still has the biggest soundstage, are bit cold or it is more similar to ZST too (like ZS6)?



Interested in that question, i have curiosity in hear people compare Zs5, zs6 to Zst. Bacause at First time i skeeped Zs5, cause someone told me that he preferred Zst over Zs5, and in that thread, i almost see no one comparing them. So i have no Idea on the comparision between them. People Keep saying on the soundstage and imaging from Zs5, 6. Is It real different then Zst ?


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## CoiL

Slater said:


> So what's your plan with them?


Crazy mod plan as always  ZS3 driver goes to recycle bin.


----------



## ItsGallen

I am rocking the KZ Ate and i loved the stock tips that came on with them and provided me insane bass & sub bass (the silicone tips).
Problem is they fell off and i don't know where they are. So i got on Ali foam tips by KZ and they are giving nice sound sig but bass isn't going low enough as with the stock tips.

Where can i get these? i'm talking about the largest silicone tips size. (If anyone has to send me i'm willing to pay).


----------



## Vytautas

JayceOoi said:


> Yeah... KZ ZS6 @ $19.99 again with code - KZZS62. (start at 11am UTC sharp)
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html



Do you know discount code for KZ5?


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## RomStar (Nov 30, 2017)

Now for the last few pages I've seen a bit of disappointment or say, lack of hope. So far, there hasn't been any real advancement to those topics

1: I am not a slave to KZ, and nor do they owe me anything. I just want to make that clear before I start

Now I've seen a few post implying the KZs are the usual run of the mill chifi iems with a common V-shaped signature. To that I say: "what ?"

Merely being V-shaped doesn't mean something will sound similar to other products. It's has much more to do with drivers, housing and the shape of ears. To me the KZ sounds very distinct after the ZST line up. The Zs5 and ZST and even Zs6 are very different. They sound nothing like the older ones I have like zs3 or ATE. Also they themselves don't sound completely similar. (only talking about Zs5 v1 Vs ZST Vs Zs6, no clue about Zs5v2 since don't own them).

On top of that, I own Zircons, Remax D610, had a pair of Dzats and cheap ATE. They all have a distinct sound and can not be said they sound anything like the Zs5 merely due to a V-shaped graph.


Secondly, this really baffles me. The Zs5 is an iem that costs $14 at this point. I myself paid $40 Aud. Now here is a quick story :

I *didn't initially * like KZ. I had a defective ATE which I threw away (hence ordering again). I mainly got the Zs5 due to its myriad of drivers. I came from Zircons and Dzat which are very very bass heavy and warm sounding. I hated the Zs5 initially as it sounded "Colder"

Psychologically I also had that stigma of hate due to my prior ATE experience. And this is how my cognition changed, one day I forgot my pair of Zircons during a vacation. I was forced to use the Zs5 during the entire trip, and that was initially annoying to me. However, it turned out, I needed a bit of time to get used to the new signature of my new iem to judge it fairly.

Soon after, everytime I got back to my Zircons, I felt like the bass was overemphasized. Jazz didn't sound right at all, and on some tracks the bass was muddy. 3 months in, I found out about foam tips and how they enhance bass. And that made the Zs5 almost perfect for me, with tighter bass and a bit of trimmed treble.

Now I know this all comes down to preference, but my *point* is, any new item you use needs time, so you can adjust to them to judge them fairly.

Another point I wanted to bring up was: "KZ does not providing enough bang for the buck" or they all sound the same. This seems like a bad argument. I honestly don't know what tops the Zs5/6 that's under the sub 20 category. In fact, I don't know any that rivals it, except the Tin T2 at the *50$ mark*. Now I'm not trying to be biased, but I tried making a 11.11 list and an *upgrade to my Zs5* for under $50. I failed to find any clear upgrade, and overall these provide amazing value even with stock cable. I am also very *open* to any iem suggestions or picks that are equally good or surpass these under $50, so anyone can let me know

However, I do admit: To get the most out of them, I needed silver plated cable and foam tips. So there is that *$8 of extra* spend. However, that is still under $30 and gives a lot of iems at a much higher range a run for their money. In fact, I believe they totally outclass my Sennheiser momentums and these are the best iems I own.

Now this is not an absolute example, and only my experience with *what I own.* The momentums also have bright treble, but lack the sub bass and  overall satisfying overall bass. There is also less detail and more recessed mids in the senns. The Zs5 does sound colder in comparison and some find it treble heavy, but with foams they are perfect for me. Also they provide more detail and better instrumental separation with a larger sound stage.

Now my view is: If you spend $13 on these and say, "Hey this isn't something that suits me taste" after a period to adjust, then that's totally fine. By all means there are *other options*. But I can't see how someone would then later buy even more items from KZ (which are still even cheaper) and complain. At the very worse, you're only $20 off compared to before. And I don't see you spending money on more kz after you hate their top+medium picks,  so you shouldn't  be losing any substantial money at all.

*By no means am i bashing anyone in particular, I don't even have anyone in my mind when I say this, but these are some of the ideas or concerns I read back a couple of pages.. Which aren't real issue in my opinion. *

It's a great time to be alive and like audio, so unless you're *super stingy and absolutely can't afford to experiment or waste even 6$*, just go to physical retail stores and try out you're headphone before you buy them....


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## young59 (Nov 30, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Don't know if my wallet would be happy, since i have ordered Lza 3a, ATE, Zs3 again, Tin T2 and an Topping NX3 all on the way...with more orders on my mind. You guys sure know how to drain a poor man to his pennies


I know how you feel as a college student I now already own 5 iems ATE, 2 ZS3(1 with the Bluetooth module), ZS5v2 with the expensive branded cable,ZS6 and many purchases on the 11.11 sale barely managed this month and I am now already looking at the ZSR and a DAC+AMP solution for the coming month. So I simultaneously love and hate everyone here.


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## SomeTechNoob

young59 said:


> I know how you feel as a college student I now already own 5 iems ATE, 2 ZS3(1 with the Bluetooth module), ZS5v2 with the expensive branded cable,ZS6 and many purchases on the 11.11 sale barely managed this month and I am now already looking at the ZSR and a DAC+AMP solution for the coming month. So I simultaneously love and hate everyone here.



You think you have it bad?  Im a uni student too, and just look at my signature...

Literally a lifetime's worth of earbuds


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## young59

SomeTechNoob said:


> You think you have it bad?  Im a uni student too, and just look at my signature...
> 
> Literally a lifetime's worth of earbuds


So I guess you don't know solution to what I am thinking might be addiction.


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## HungryPanda

This is Head-Fi ladies and gentlemen our wallets will always be endangered


----------



## Slater

ItsGallen said:


> I am rocking the KZ Ate and i loved the stock tips that came on with them and provided me insane bass & sub bass (the silicone tips).
> Problem is they fell off and i don't know where they are. So i got on Ali foam tips by KZ and they are giving nice sound sig but bass isn't going low enough as with the stock tips.
> 
> Where can i get these? i'm talking about the largest silicone tips size. (If anyone has to send me i'm willing to pay).



Hmmm, ATE comes with terrible rock hard “gel foam” tips. Not quite silicone, not quite foam. It’s like a shiny slippery foam that doesn’t compress because it’s not squishy at all.

You say yours came with silicone tips?


----------



## khighly

They all have different sound signatures, and now that I own about 15 pairs of IEM's from different companies, I'm starting to believe that over time your ears and brain adjust to make nearly all sound the same.

ZS6 after a week sounds like ZS5v1 always did, but now the ZS5v1 sounds a little dark. ZST sounds hollow in the middle, but still sounds very similar to ZS5v1 and ZS6. They all use the same drivers. I'm guessing KZ has 2-3 sub/mid drivers and 2-3 BA's and they all get put in every IEM they make, just arranged & ported differently for slightly different sound signatures. KZ makes a lot of mistakes, and makes a lot of crap products, but for the price you'll have a hard time beating what KZ has to offer - they do make some good IEM's, and with a little research on this forum you can find what might be right for your tastes.


----------



## groucho69

SomeTechNoob said:


> You think you have it bad?  Im a uni student too, and just look at my signature...
> 
> Literally a lifetime's worth of earbuds



Lifetime? Looks more like a beginning to me.


----------



## AudioJunki3

Francisk said:


> Very nice review but have you tried Comply T400 foam tips on the ZST? This will tone down the highs and make it sound much smoother. For me, the Comply T400 tips pairs very well with the ZST and makes it shine above it's asking price and put some of the more expensive IEMs to shame. There are some 3rd party T400 foam tips that works just as well as Comply foam tips. They're available at Gearbest and it's much cheaper than Comply foam tips.


Cheers mate! I'll definitely give that a go!


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## vladstef

khighly said:


> They all have different sound signatures, and now that I own about 15 pairs of IEM's from different companies, I'm starting to believe that over time your ears and brain adjust to make nearly all sound the same.
> 
> ZS6 after a week sounds like ZS5v1 always did, but now the ZS5v1 sounds a little dark. ZST sounds hollow in the middle, but still sounds very similar to ZS5v1 and ZS6. They all use the same drivers. I'm guessing KZ has 2-3 sub/mid drivers and 2-3 BA's and they all get put in every IEM they make, just arranged & ported differently for slightly different sound signatures. KZ makes a lot of mistakes, and makes a lot of crap products, but for the price you'll have a hard time beating what KZ has to offer - they do make some good IEM's, and with a little research on this forum you can find what might be right for your tastes.



This looks like a brain burn-in case, you probably adjusted to ZS6's sound and now you perceive ZS5v1 as darker than it is.
I agree when it comes to drivers, KZ has some decent dynamic drivers but their BAs are lagging behind the rest, although they at least put like 4 BA drivers in a 20$ IEM, quantity over quality in this case.
I hope that KZ will find a way to improve their drivers, but until then, I can't see them releasing a new flagship (unless they accept the reality and use Knowles BAs or something equivalent).


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## HungryPanda

When I wake up I pick one earphone/earbud/headphone and that is normally it for the day. If I change anything the sound is not quite right for sometime so it is better to sleep and wake up to listen critically to something.


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## Podster

groucho69 said:


> Lifetime? Looks more like a beginning to me.



Guess I'm going to live forever with my collection At least 4 or 5 lifetimes


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## Wiljen

I find that I use a very few in-ears just purely for the pleasure of listening and none of those are KZ models.   The problem is, I have a lot of people at the office that want to listen to my gear and then want something better than what came with their phone.  This is where KZ fits for me.  I can easily recommend the Zst, Zs5, Zs6 models and not break the bank for people interested in trying something on that first step on the hi-fi ladder.    I think we can all agree that KZ represents great value and is easily better than any in-ear you are likely to pickup for the same money at any of the Walmart, Drug store, grocery, target, kind of stores. 

The KZs are also great for youth who tend to do absolutely nothing to take care of them and everything to try and destroy them.   My daughter should be used to test any headphone that the maker claims is indestructible.   If it can make it 24 hours with her, their claim is probably true.  72 hours guarantees it.


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## Cruelhand Luke

HungryPanda said:


> When I wake up I pick one earphone/earbud/headphone and that is normally it for the day. If I change anything the sound is not quite right for sometime so it is better to sleep and wake up to listen critically to something.


Do you generally listen to one type or similar types of music? I would be inclined to do the same as you and just pick my poison for the day and not look back, but when my very eclectic musical tastes combine with my ADHD I find myself switching at least a couple of times throughout the day...
And if I'm honest, most days I switch headphones MULTIPLE times.


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## HungryPanda

I listen to all genres of music, progressive rock, hard rock, folk, electronic, whatever I feel like listening to. I do have preferences of earphones for different moods I suppose


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## JayceOoi

Vytautas said:


> Do you know discount code for KZ5?


Don't have now. Will let you know when I found one.


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## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> When I wake up I pick one earphone/earbud/headphone and that is normally it for the day. If I change anything the sound is not quite right for sometime so it is better to sleep and wake up to listen critically to something.



that is actually a good discipline. I admit i tend to switch earphones a lot throughout the day depending on what i'm listening


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## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 30, 2017)

Earlier today I got the last of my 3 KZ iems that I ordered, the ES3. I have had the ZS3 and the ZS5 for about a week now.
My first thought is that out of the box the ES3 are my favorites so far. Almost no sibilance ...I'm looking at you ZS5.  
soundstage seems good for an IEM, it's 'accurate'?...it's not _impressing_ me like an open backed supra-aural headphone does. It feels like, listening to a track I know very well from having heard it hundreds of times, on dozens of different speakers/headphones, etc, the noises are all coming from the right places, if that makes sense....I "know" the piano in a particular song should be coming from a particular place and these seem to represent that image pretty faithfully.
Bass is good so far, not really ready to talk about it compared to the ZS5, I haven't gotten into bass heavy tracks yet...but my quick first impression is that the ZS5 kinda whomps the ES3...
I haven't had a chance to fine tune an EQ setting for them yet, and I have only tried them with a couple of different sets of tips (I'm using the t400 blue 'comply' tips from gearbest) but so far I am pretty happy and impressed with the ES3, in fact I am kind of surprised they don't get more love around here.
If you like the ZS5 but the treble kills you, the ES3 seems like a good lateral move? It's a more comfortable IEM than the ZS5, for me at least, out of the three the ES3 fits like it was made for me, down to the way they angled the cable coming out of the back, it just sits better on my head.
I should mention, I am at the tail end of a cold, so all of my impressions are tempered by the fact that my ears aren't well right now, so they could change in a week.


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## Cruelhand Luke

HungryPanda said:


> When I wake up I pick one earphone/earbud/headphone and that is normally it for the day. If I change anything the sound is not quite right for sometime so it is better to sleep and wake up to listen critically to something.


I will say, in regards to this, before I sit down and try to do critical listening, A/B-ing stuff, really getting a handle on what a headphone sounds like for example?, I don't do it at the end of a work day, I don't do it after I have been downtown, etc. I live in a quiet little beach town, at night all I hear is the waves and sea lions barking.My ears are sensitive to the difference between a calm Saturday on my balcony and after I have been into the city dealing with traffic and people and such.


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## Moys

oyobass said:


> It is hard to tell someone else what would work best for them, but the items you listed sound like a great package to me.
> 
> Downside: if you have smaller ears, the ZS6 might be uncomfortable. The exaggerated highs take a little time to get used to, although the foam tips you listed go a long way towards taming the treble cannon effect.
> 
> These are pretty amazing earphones for the price. I think you'll be happy with them.




Thanks for the answer, well I actually am pretty "hissing" sensitive, but if the upgraded tips and maybe eq'ing can fix that, it would be ok. Also I'm used to listen at low levels when facing that kind of issue, so If I need time to adapt to the sound I should be fine.

I hope that the ostry tips are the most effective, and that they don't downgrade other aspects of the sound.


----------



## fuzun (Dec 1, 2017)

Initial expressions regarding *ZS6*: (I have used foam tips)

Note that I am 19 years old and I can hear until almost 21000 Hz. And this is my first Kz iem.

Foams (New Bee), made it sound much better but less comfortable.
Mid quality is very good, but quantity of mids is lacking slightly in a V-Shape characteristic way.

Bass is tight and quality is good. There is some bloating though (It does not bother and not quite noticeable). It would definitely be better if there was a little less subbass. (2-3 dB less maybe?)

Highs are over exposed, there are a lot of energy in treble range and this makes the ZS6 a very detailed iem. Even though quantity of highs are more than I wanted, it does not bother me much because the peak is not in between 12-20 khz and also because of the bass quantity. It would be better for me if it had less high. 

Typical V-Shaped and cold sound signature, nothing special regarding the sound signature of ZS6. 

I do not see (or hear  the featured advantage of mid oriented driver (second DD).
It is sensitive. My S5 Neo is being able to give sufficient power to it while listening music which has high dynamic range. Same S5 Neo failed to power up the monk+ when it came to high dynamic range things.

Soundstage is not impressive. For some reason I think VE monks+ have better soundstage even though it has virtually no subbass and low bass overall. What is the purpose of the grill if ZS5 has better soundstage?

The most detailed and revealing headphone/iem I have ever used (I am not talking about only highs here) and this is not bad because I do not listen mp3 or badly produced albums . This IEM would be a good choice for studio usage.
By saying cold, I mean highs are "metallic". And my ears do not like that. It is probably something related to the peak location.

Decay of bass is little. And this is not bad because it already has a lot of bass (I think this is the reason of kinda narrow soundstage). But still, I think it would be better if there was more decay at midbass because it would make bass guitar sound much better.

Stereo separation is very good.
Build quality is good but not impressive, quality of metal case and finishing are not the best. All of the accessories came with it are typical Chinese garbage. (Cable and tips)
Isolation could be better considering the narrow soundstage.
Sound signature leads fatiguing early. This would not be a good everyday driver. It is oriented to professional work or home listening more. I do not think I can listen ZS6 more than 3 hours gapless.

I can not say that the ZS6 is sibilant with New Bee foams even though I can notice traces of sibilance time to time. But with the provided silicone tips, I could easily notice sibilance.
Higher range of vocals, like "s", sound weird time to time. It may be due to the peak location and amount.
For me, it is not uncomfortable like others say.
Handles full bodied sound pretty good.

I will listen ZS6 later with Xduoo XD-05 dac&amp and will post more impressions later.

So,

Is it worth the $27 I have spent on it? *Yes*.

Is it worth $50 ? *Yes*.

Is it worth $75 ? *Maybe*. Depending on the user.

Is it worth $100 ? *Absolutely not.*
Is it worth $400 (with the custom made $370 cable floating in Aliexpress) ? *I do not think so* 


Is ZS6 a good choice for metal music? Definitely *yes *if you are not treble sensitive.

Are foam tips and a proper cable a good investment for ZS6? *Yes!

*


----------



## jaydm99

RomStar said:


> I also did the @Slater bass mod, where you decrease the diameter of the bass vent by 50%. I used regular tape, and I can provide pics if you're interested.



I'm interested! Post it!


----------



## Superluc

Francisk said:


> With 75ohms adapter on both stock starline and foam tips...sounds much worse than without the 75ohms adapter...lifeless.
> 
> Well of course YMMV


Well... it indeed takes away some life. 
It's difficult to find the right balance, lowering all the highs together some tracks can become a bit lacking, while others still maintain sibilance, if there is any on the recording. Cymbals are still up front, even with the adapter, so...

I think that a more specific equalization can work better, if available, on try to find a personal balance with them, as we know where those peaks are. I also prefer to add a bit of bass to them, they probably perform better with DAPs a bit on the dark side. 

So an adapter it's not worth it on the ZS6 ? To me, not on balancing purpose alone, but the ZS6 is a bit sensitive to noise floor, and a similar adapter can solve that, on sources where that can be a problem, although demanding more power to play at the same volume. But if it's better to use an adapter with less or more impedance than that, it may depend on taste versus how it affect the sound and the amplification available. Obviously, one can buy a more pricier Ear Buddy for solve that kind of problem, without affecting the highs.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> The KZs are also great for youth who tend to do absolutely nothing to take care of them and everything to try and destroy them.   My daughter should be used to test any headphone that the maker claims is indestructible.   If it can make it 24 hours with her, their claim is probably true.  72 hours guarantees it.



Man, I thought I was the only one.

I literally buy bulk lighting cables TEN at a time for my 14-yo daughter. I swear she must be using them for swinging from the ceiling, because I've never seen things get so destroyed so quickly. I have literally been using the same cable that came with my phone daily for the last 2 years, and it looks and performs as new as the day I took it out of the box.

The same is true for headphones, IEMs, computer mice, and everything else electronic.


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## CoiL (Dec 1, 2017)

khighly said:


> They all have different sound signatures, and now that I own about 15 pairs of IEM's from different companies, I'm starting to believe that over time your ears and brain adjust to make nearly all sound the same.
> ZS6 after a week sounds like ZS5v1 always did, but now the ZS5v1 sounds a little dark. ZST sounds hollow in the middle, but still sounds very similar to ZS5v1 and ZS6.* They all use the same drivers. I'm guessing KZ has 2-3 sub/mid drivers and 2-3 BA's and they all get put in every IEM they make, just arranged & ported differently for slightly different sound signatures.* KZ makes a lot of mistakes, and makes a lot of crap products, but for the price you'll have a hard time beating what KZ has to offer - they do make some good IEM's, and with a little research on this forum you can find what might be right for your tastes.


Ported and filtered differently - yes, but they don`t have same drivers. Even ATR, ATE and ATE-S drivers sound different despite looking almost same. Is about coil winding and driver tuning also.
I have tested latter 3 in exactly same shells and nozzles.

BTW, I have opened my ZS3 and tossed away drivers. New nozzles done and soon will install new drivers (BA testing, crossover etc.). Last thing will be new wooden faceplates. New SPOFC cable still coming.
ZS3 looks promising for modding and I really like its ergonomic fit! They fit like a silk glove!


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed a number of off topic posts as well as the posts that lead to them. Please keep posts on-topic so we don't derail the thread again.

Thanks everyone.


----------



## Podster

I just hate KZ


----------



## nxnje

I surrend.. tried many tricks to make my zs3 fit properly but i still can't enjoy listening with them.
I love their sound signature a lot, their bass is incredibly strong, so i'm gonna send back them to the seller.
I have heard online the rock zircons have good bass too but i saw they're not well built and so not resistant.

I was going online to see if there's something like zs3 sound signature and i found memt x5 were so well shown.
Do u tip me to buy them? I have 15 dollars budget for the moment but i can go over for lioe 2-3 euros.
What do u think i can buy as substitute?
Thanks for the tips and sorry if this goes a bit off topic.


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## Happy Hacking (Dec 1, 2017)

Anyone here has suggestions for a cable for the ZS6 that isn't too long? Or at least a shorter length past the 2-way split? Or has a chin slider?
The cable I have is way too long. I take one side of my earphones off very often as people talk to me, and the ZS6 drops almost to my knees!

I understand i can easily mod a chin slider but I wouldn't mind paying a little more for a cable with a proper built in slider or a shorter cable!!

This is the cable I am currently using:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-43d4-4d3a-8d59-1bccf45e7959&rmStoreLevelAB=1


----------



## HUGO SILVA

Podster said:


> I just hate KZ


hello friend, which cable do you think has the best quality? thank you.


----------



## ivo001

I just got home and was happy to see a package delivered for me. This had to be the KZ ZS5 I ordered on 8 nov from Gearbest right? According to the tracking it got to the country of destination 2 days ago.
WRONG!

It was the santa claus wine bottle decoration I ordered on 17 nov from Gearbest...
https://gloimg.gbtcdn.com/gb/pdm-product-pic/Maiyang/2017/09/12/goods-img/1505416573935564784.jpg

How the hell does that package manage to overtake an order from 9 days earlier from the same vendor?


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## Podster (Dec 1, 2017)

HUGO SILVA said:


> hello friend, which cable do you think has the best quality? thank you.



My preferred is the silver triple braided one @HUGO SILVA like are on the two ZST's in the back and so much so I've order the same cables for both my ZS5's & 6's. I will say since removing the (Idiot, don't be playa hatin" on me ear wire guys) the Bronze cable @Happy Hacking  posted feels better Happy, let me look tonight but I'm thinking the triple braid is somewhat shorter than the stock and Bronze cable but can't swear to it!

@ivo001 , now I'm not saying this is your case but many times these AliEx sellers don't come out and tell you it's not quite in their stock just yet


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## ivo001

Podster said:


> My preferred is the silver triple braided one @HUGO SILVA like are on the two ZST's in the back and so much so I've order the same cables for both my ZS5's & 6's. I will say since removing the (Idiot, don't be playa hatin" on me ear wire guys) the Bronze cable @Happy Hacking  posted feels better Happy, let me look tonight but I'm thinking the triple braid is somewhat shorter than the stock and Bronze cable but can't swear to it!
> 
> @ivo001 , now I'm not saying this is your case but many times these AliEx sellers don't come out and tell you it's not quite in their stock just yet



Both Items are from Gearbest, not AliExpress


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## Podster

ivo001 said:


> Both Items are from Gearbest, not AliExpress



Gearbest/AliEx both Chinese and have the  same tactics IMO not to mention all shipments come via Chinese Junk to the States Been waiting on my Red ZS6's from Gearbest since Nov. 16th and I fully anticipate it taking another 2 weeks to arrive.


----------



## nkramer

while we're on cable length.... i'd love to find some longer ones.
most are 1.2-1.3m (or around 43.2-46.8 inches)
what i'd like to find is something closer to 1.67m (or 60 inches)

longer cords used to be standard issue, but the shift to mobile devices has shrunk that "old standard" dramatically.

almost to the point of making my own cable but not sure what's a good wire to use that's not insanely expensive.


----------



## TheVortex

i received a message today from a certain banned AliExpress seller which I can't name and I was told they won't be selling the ZSR. Maybe another gearbest timed exclusive?


----------



## oyobass

Happy Hacking said:


> Anyone here has suggestions for a cable for the ZS6 that isn't too long? Or at least a shorter length past the 2-way split? Or has a chin slider?
> The cable I have is way too long. I take one side of my earphones off very often as people talk to me, and the ZS6 drops almost to my knees!
> 
> I understand i can easily mod a chin slider but I wouldn't mind paying a little more for a cable with a proper built in slider or a shorter cable!!
> ...


I too would like to see a cable with a chin slider as well, although I usually run the cable down my back. It is a small, but important part of what makes an aftermarket cable an "upgrade".

I use a small piece of flexible, double-sided velcro cable tie as a chin slider. it definitely helps eliminate the small amount of microphonics the upgrade cables produce when you can keep the cables pressed against the sides of your face or back of your head.

I remember being a bit disappointed with my first KZ earphone when it didn't have this feature... Knowledge  Zenith, are you listening?


----------



## bsoplinger (Dec 1, 2017)

Podster said:


> I just hate KZ


Really? Perhaps you can try those muster brand? Or was it rally? Or was it mobilize? 

On topic, I'm really enjoying the ZS6 now that I've gotten those T200 foamies. Its so nice to listen to something and not be fishing foamies out my ear canals when I'm done. Now I'm just trying to decide if I want to sacrifice a bit of comfort for better controlled bass by using the large tips or go with the medium which don't quite seal so the bass isn't quite right but are more comfortable.

I just stuck in the pair of V2 ZS5 using the smaller nozzle foamies just to see if they got better with them too and they did.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> i received a message today from a certain banned AliExpress seller which I can't name and I was told they won't be selling the ZSR. Maybe another gearbest timed exclusive?



Could very well be.

But I wonder why HillSonic Audio (a dealer with an apparently very close relationship with KZ) is acting like they're going to be carrying it when it's available?


----------



## bsoplinger

Happy Hacking said:


> Anyone here has suggestions for a cable for the ZS6 that isn't too long?…
> The cable I have is way too long. I take one side of my earphones off very often as people talk to me, and the ZS6 drops almost to my knees!


The braided one mentioned in this thread a few times is much nicer than the official KZ brand cables IMHO. The link I have isn't the best price or I'd post it instead of telling you to look through the thread for it. 

Cheaper link in this thread but here is the one I have handy:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32821872852.html


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Could very well be.
> 
> But I wonder why HillSonic Audio (a dealer with an apparently very close relationship with KZ) is acting like they're going to be carrying it when it's available?



Let's find out as the supposed release date is the 10th December so not too far off. I am interested in this model as it's supposed to have a crossover and I like the custom shape design of the shell apart from the tacky looking writing which I would have to remove somehow.

But I remember that NiceHCK AliExpress seller tweeted about it so I am confused so only time will tell.


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> The braided one mentioned in this thread a few times is much nicer than the official KZ brand cables IMHO. The link I have isn't the best price or I'd post it instead of telling you to look through the thread for it.
> 
> Cheaper link in this thread but here is the one I have handy:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32821872852.html



Indeed and I believe it's the Type A that fits both ZS5/6 which I have on the slow boat right now

@bsoplinger , glad you got your TIP on


----------



## Happy Hacking

bsoplinger said:


> The braided one mentioned in this thread a few times is much nicer than the official KZ brand cables IMHO. The link I have isn't the best price or I'd post it instead of telling you to look through the thread for it.
> 
> Cheaper link in this thread but here is the one I have handy:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32821872852.html



Thanks but are they very long? Especially after they 2-way split.


----------



## khighly

CoiL said:


> Ported and filtered differently - yes, but they don`t have same drivers. Even ATR, ATE and ATE-S drivers sound different despite looking almost same. Is about coil winding and driver tuning also.
> I have tested latter 3 in exactly same shells and nozzles.
> 
> BTW, I have opened my ZS3 and tossed away drivers. New nozzles done and soon will install new drivers (BA testing, crossover etc.). Last thing will be new wooden faceplates. New SPOFC cable still coming.
> ZS3 looks promising for modding and I really like its ergonomic fit! They fit like a silk glove!



There's no way they're doing coil winding and driver tuning for $4-$10 IEM's. They're shoving the same drivers in every IEM and making shell design changes that effect the sound in small ways. What you're probably experiencing is lack of QC. 

This isn't Campfire Audio, this is KZ.


----------



## vector84

khighly said:


> There's no way they're doing coil winding and driver tuning for $4-$10 IEM's. They're shoving the same drivers in every IEM and making shell design changes that effect the sound in small ways. What you're probably experiencing is lack of QC.
> 
> This isn't Campfire Audio, this is KZ.


Where do you think a huge portion of those parts actually get made even for much higher end brands?  If they weren't winding coils, the drivers wouldn't work, so that statement just strikes me as pretty absurd...


----------



## oyobass

My ZS3s have finally made it to my town this afternoon. I should see them tonight or tomorrow, (probably tomorrow, since I didn't see the "out for delivery" text in the tracking).

I'll give them a good testing stock, then proceed to the _Slater Mod (TM) _to enhance the high end, if needed.
I'm excited to try last year's next big thing...


----------



## khighly

vector84 said:


> Where do you think a huge portion of those parts actually get made even for much higher end brands?  If they weren't winding coils, the drivers wouldn't work, so that statement just strikes me as pretty absurd...



Nobody is sitting there tuning 5-15 drivers and 5-10 BA's like this is a fender stratocaster type artform or something. It's cheap, quick, efficient, with a lack of QC. It's not worth the time. It's like you guys expect that they're sitting there with $230,000 worth of Tektronix and Keysight equipment doing years of sound & electronic research - and it's just not happening. People get IEM's straight from KZ that are wired backwards and you expect that they have it all figured out. Ha.

I think you guys believe in snake oil too much. Most KZ IEM's sound so very alike. ZST through ZS6 are nearly identical. I don't have any of the newer cheaper ones, but I wouldn't doubt they also sound pretty similar. The only KZ I've had that didn't sound almost exactly like the rest is the ED12.


----------



## Superluc

khighly said:


> ZST through ZS6 are nearly identical. I don't have any of the newer cheaper ones, but I wouldn't doubt they also sound pretty similar. The only KZ I've had that didn't sound almost exactly like the rest is the ED12.


ZS6 and ZSE are nothing alike, but the ZSE din't have BAs.


----------



## oyobass

Maybe I'm drinking snake oil by the gallon, but I find fairly significant differences between my ZST, ZS5 v1 and ZS6.

They have some family resemblance, especially in the high end, but each is fairly unique in the reproduction of the mids and definition in the bass and midbass.


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Dec 1, 2017)

nappiguan said:


> My green Kz6 has had 40+ hours.  With the tri-braid cable and foam tips they are sounding better than my Westone 3.  I highly recommend a slight eq to soften the highs and bring up the lows.


Could you post the link for tri-braid cable?
*To everybody* 
who bought the braided cables and feels that it's better sounding than stock cables (cable supplied with KZ) please share the links.


----------



## Slater (Dec 1, 2017)

khighly said:


> Nobody is sitting there tuning 5-15 drivers and 5-10 BA's like this is a fender stratocaster type artform or something. It's cheap, quick, efficient, with a lack of QC. It's not worth the time. It's like you guys expect that they're sitting there with $230,000 worth of Tektronix and Keysight equipment doing years of sound & electronic research - and it's just not happening. People get IEM's straight from KZ that are wired backwards and you expect that they have it all figured out. Ha.



bahahaha, wired backwards. That's classic LOL



khighly said:


> The only KZ I've had that didn't sound almost exactly like the rest is the ED12.



The ED12 is one of the few I skipped because the reviews were poor.

How do you like your ED12, and is it worth picking up (if not for any reason other than it being the one KZ that doesn't "sound almost exactly like the rest")?


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> The ED12 is one of the few I skipped because the reviews were poor.
> 
> How do you like your ED12, and is it worth picking up (if not for any reason other than it being the one KZ that doesn't "sound almost exactly like the rest")?



I wouldn't bother. It feels like they're missing half of the range of sound. If you can find them for like $2, maybe, just to try them or use their shells? Maybe use as a test shell if you just have a bunch of drivers and BA's sitting around?

They're very dark and the only thing I liked listening to on them was Soulection Radio. Kind of like a little more frequency extension than AM radio.


----------



## khighly

oyobass said:


> Maybe I'm drinking snake oil by the gallon, but I find fairly significant differences between my ZST, ZS5 v1 and ZS6.
> 
> They have some family resemblance, especially in the high end, but each is fairly unique in the reproduction of the mids and definition in the bass and midbass.



ZS6 and ZS5v1 sound nearly identical in mids & bass. The ZS6 sounds like they added a BA at around like 14Khz and needed a smd resistor to bring it down about 4dB. You get used to it, but it's still a bit too much in some songs.

I also notice the ZS6's are far easier to drive than the ZS5v1's, so that may also have been an initial problem as the ZS5v1's are a pain to drive and require higher volumes on all of my devices. I may have been pushing the ZS6's to ZS5v1 levels and then realized "wow, this is way too loud".


----------



## vector84

khighly said:


> I think you guys believe in snake oil too much.


So if inductors are snake oil... I'm honestly not sure where to go with this metaphor because... how do you even have a driver, dynamic or BA, without a functional inductor? 

There's plenty of standards compliant measurements in this thread of late though.


----------



## vector84

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Could you post the link for tri-braid cable?
> *To everybody*
> who bought the braided cables and feels that it's better sounding than stock cables (cable supplied with KZ) please share the links.


They're pretty easy to find on aliexpress if you search "zs5 cable" or "zs6 cable" or similar... here's a couple:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32842791429.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...icated-2-PIN-Upgrade/1825606_32838766604.html


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Dec 1, 2017)

Slater said:


> So now that I made improvements to the ZS3, I thought I'd tackle the ZST.
> 
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions.
> ...


Will it be beneficial for ZS 5 and 6?


----------



## kokakolia

Superluc said:


> ZS6 and ZSE are nothing alike, but the ZSE din't have BAs.



You can also add the ED7 to the list. The only KZ I ever liked. I feel like I should buy another pair for that matter... It's rather good! And dirt cheap. And it looks super cute in bamboo.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

khighly said:


> I think you guys believe in snake oil too much. Most KZ IEM's sound so very alike. ZST through ZS6 are nearly identical. I don't have any of the newer cheaper ones, but I wouldn't doubt they also sound pretty similar. The only KZ I've had that didn't sound almost exactly like the rest is the ED12.


Have you considered that perhaps there's something wrong with your hearing, or your source gear? 
I have only had my KZ IEMs for a week, so I'm not a KZ super-fan. I am not one that buys equipment because it's the flavor of the month or hyped...it's pretty clear to me that the ZST - ZS6 are not 'nearly identical'. It's not because someone on Headfi SAID they sound different, I can tell when one headset goes deeper in the bass, or has sibilance that another one doesn't. 
Seems like if the ZS6 sounds the same as the ES3 to you, perhaps the problem is you, not, you know, everyone else?


----------



## nxnje

nxnje said:


> I surrend.. tried many tricks to make my zs3 fit properly but i still can't enjoy listening with them.
> I love their sound signature a lot, their bass is incredibly strong, so i'm gonna send back them to the seller.
> I have heard online the rock zircons have good bass too but i saw they're not well built and so not resistant.
> 
> ...



Sorry if i up my message, but it's just because i need some help connected to my last zs3 experience. Thanks if someone wanna help


----------



## khighly

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Have you considered that perhaps there's something wrong with your hearing, or your source gear?
> I have only had my KZ IEMs for a week, so I'm not a KZ super-fan. I am not one that buys equipment because it's the flavor of the month or hyped...it's pretty clear to me that the ZST - ZS6 are not 'nearly identical'. It's not because someone on Headfi SAID they sound different, I can tell when one headset goes deeper in the bass, or has sibilance that another one doesn't.
> Seems like if the ZS6 sounds the same as the ES3 to you, perhaps the problem is you, not, you know, everyone else?



I have IEM's from other manufacturers that have entirely different complete 180 sound signatures on the same sources. ZST, ZS5, ZS6 sound nearly identical. My first pair of ZST's are a bit closer to ZS5v1 than I realized. ATR was a little darker without the high extension, but everything else was pretty similar.

I have Modi 2, Magni 2, Zune, Pixel XL, and my PC sound card which is an expensive Xonar card I use for IQ/DSP. There can't possibly be something wrong with all of my sources.

I think what you guys are missing is the part where I claim "nearly", not "exactly".


----------



## Cruelhand Luke




----------



## JayceOoi

Vytautas said:


> Do you know discount code for KZ5?


Hey buddy, KZ ZS5 will be selling at $12.99 with this code - ZS5GB (start sharp at 11am UTC 2nd Dec)
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## oyobass

khighly said:


> ZS6 and ZS5v1 sound nearly identical in mids & bass.


The world of Chi-fi is a wonderful thing. I hear something entirely different from what you do. 
*vive la différence!*


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> The world of Chi-fi is a wonderful thing. I hear something entirely different from what you do.
> *vive la différence!*


sucker! You hear different things, suuuure ya do. Enjoy your delicious snake oil!


----------



## RomStar (Dec 2, 2017)

@khighly do you own the Zs3 or ATE? Would you say they sound the same as the ZS line? If so I'm no longer a part of this discussion, I'll happily part my way

Also, to me the cables do change sound in a very minute way, I've got around 3 cables I tested. I'm not a super knowledgeable guy and can't post data, but I'm saying this now : the difference is there, bass to me was slightly quicker with the spc cable but that's very very minute. In fact, these have much less microphonics when moving or listening with the Spc cables on a bus or walk, that alone produces a much more different experience than the thick rubber hide stock cable. That's just my personal experience and observations

I would recommend an spc cable, they are around 4$ very often, and is a lot better than the stock ones. (Durability + microphonics + very slight audio changes)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Mmhm. Agreed all around. Reminds me of the people losing their minds about Grados supposedly using the same drivers in a given series (the SRs the PSs, etc). Even if KZ does take all their drivers out of a basket, we know for a fact that just moving one BA from body to nozzle had a _profound_ effect on the treble of the ZS5 and subsequently the ZS6. 

There is a wide difference, IMO, between QC issues and inherent design issues. It's entirely possible to have really good engineers working on low-cost designs that get handed off to low-wage workers who screw up the assembly frequently, and at the prices we're talking about it's amazing that they don't happen more often. If you're spending $20 on a quad-driver IEM it's a bonus if the thing doesn't fall into pieces as soon as it comes out of the box let alone sound good enough to be a daily driver over stuff in the $200 range.


----------



## rendyG (Dec 2, 2017)

After seeing a lot of guys searching for THE budget iem, I´d like to add one onto your list 
*Blitzwolf BW-ES1 *($10-15)
After a few mods the graphene driver in this thing will shine, literally. I like these even more than my RE400 which were like 10 times more expensive...
The snappiest bass I´ve ever heard, nice soundstage which is actually in front of you (in comparison to RE400 which can sound like behind your head I would say).
These can be tuned to have ruler flat bass or keep some more of it, whatever you like.. and the treble is nicely extended with one small peak around 5kHz which can be heard only in some tracks.





I wanted to buy ZS6 so much, they are beatiful, but I see they have similar tonality to ES3 with even more treble.. I just can´t, I have ES3 and Blitz absolutely destroys them imo.
For me the best kz is still ATE (old with golden weights), if I eq the bass down, they sound lovely.

I don´t want to start something similar to this marshall "discussion", just thought some of you may find it useful - especially you guys who like to mod 
There is a thread in other forums about blitzwolf with measurements and tutorial, you can google it or pm me..


----------



## B9Scrambler

Thread reset with some Micro Ring love


----------



## jaydm99

Grey ZS6 in the flesh. I found an unboxing video of it on Youtube.


----------



## Superluc

nxnje said:


> I surrend.. tried many tricks to make my zs3 fit properly but i still can't enjoy listening with them.
> I love their sound signature a lot, their bass is incredibly strong, so i'm gonna send back them to the seller.
> I have heard online the rock zircons have good bass too but i saw they're not well built and so not resistant.
> 
> ...


Go for it. I think that the Memt are better than both ZS3 and Zircons, and try them with the dual flange tips with the larger bore, between the tips in the case.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 2, 2017)

khighly said:


> There's no way they're doing coil winding and driver tuning for $4-$10 IEM's. *They're shoving the same drivers in every IEM and making shell design changes that effect the sound in small ways.* What you're probably experiencing is lack of QC.
> 
> This isn't Campfire Audio, this is KZ.


If you look at FR graphs users have made about KZ IEMs - then it is basically impossible that they all have same drivers and sound same - only shell, tips, nozzle, filtering can NOT affect FR graphs SO much.

I have TESTED two different ATE versions and different revisions of ATE in EXACTLY SAME custom driver testing shell and I say - they sound different! Some are quite similar though but differences are still noticeable. Unfortunately I have no gear to do FR graphs.

So, believe what You want!  Ignorance is bliss.

Yes KZ QC is bad often but main problems are with shell port holes, glue, grills, driver tubbing etc.


----------



## Makahl

Radek Jandl said:


> After seeing a lot of guys searching for THE budget iem, I´d like to add one onto your list
> *Blitzwolf BW-ES1 *($10-15)
> After a few mods the graphene driver in this thing will shine, literally. I like these even more than my RE400 which were like 10 times more expensive...
> The snappiest bass I´ve ever heard, nice soundstage which is actually in front of you (in comparison to RE400 which can sound like behind your head I would say).
> ...



I can say using hybrid tips and changing the front damper to 2 layers of 3M micropore + 2 small holes onto it with a toothpick did the trick to me. It's indeed a _really_ good IEM after some small mods.

I'm kinda happy and sad about your ES3 isn't that good compared to Blitzwolf. I've bought a KZ ZST and probably I'll get them on Monday so... I expect at least my experience will be good with ZST too, every single person which I trust said really positive things about them.


----------



## HiFiChris

Jay Magaling said:


> Grey ZS6 in the flesh. I found an unboxing video of it on Youtube.



Looks really nice! And it should be easy to paint it green now due to the easy to work with grey primer-like colour.


----------



## rendyG

Makahl said:


> I can say using hybrid tips and changing the front damper to 2 layers of 3M micropore + 2 small holes onto it with a toothpick did the trick to me. It's indeed a _really_ good IEM after some small mods.
> 
> I'm kinda happy and sad about your ES3 isn't that good compared to Blitzwolf. I've bought a KZ ZST and probably I'll get them on Monday so... I expect at least my experience will be good with ZST too, every single person which I trust said really positive things about them.



I may be too hard on my ES3, maybe they doesn´t suit me tonally (even after trying to reduce treble and bass).. anyway, I´m curious what you gonna say when zst arrives


----------



## Slater

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Will it be beneficial for ZS 5 and 6?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098


----------



## Slater

HiFiChris said:


> Looks really nice! And it should be easy to paint it green now due to the easy to work with grey primer-like colour.



Man I wouldn't paint it. I think the grey looks beautiful!

I would love to see the ZS6 in bronze or purple


----------



## CoiL

Radek Jandl said:


> _I remember the times when one could actually learn or read some interesting things in this thread.. now it´s like 1 in 50 posts is useful
> _
> After seeing a lot of guys searching for THE budget iem, I´d like to add one onto your list
> *Blitzwolf BW-ES1 *($10-15)
> ...



Thanks for graphene driver information - will probably get it and mod into ZS3 shells ;P


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Thread reset with some Micro Ring love



One of the few KZs I always wish I had the opportunity to demo


----------



## AxelCloris

Cleaned up the thread because some of the posts were getting too personal and off topic. Friendly reminder to please report posts that you feel go against the posting guidelines rather than replying to them.

Thanks everyone for your assistance.


----------



## RomStar

I think it's painfully clear now as to why the Green Zs6 is discontinued....at first i had a few ideas...but now im sure i have conclusive evidence 

 

Every time i see that after logging in...the more i am convinced of my hunch


----------



## RomStar

Jay Magaling said:


> I'm interested! Post it!


Sorry for the late reply, but here is the mod:

 

As you can see, you only cover half the vent or as much as you like. Its very simple and it stays there very securely. This did boost the sub-bass by quite a bit, and bass overall is tighter and more enjoyable. I am using this mod on the V1 variant of Zs5 and its very much worth it imo

 

That picture was provided by @Slater and it was his eagle eye's that spotted this, so all credit goes to him for the mod


----------



## nadezhda 6004

RomStar said:


> As you can see, you only cover half the vent or as much as you like.


Could you explain it in more detail?


----------



## Slater

RomStar said:


> I think it's painfully clear now as to why the Green Zs6 is discontinued....at first i had a few ideas...but now im sure i have conclusive evidence
> 
> 
> 
> Every time i see that after logging in...the more i am convinced of my hunch



Yeah, that's the kind of stuff IP lawyers dream about at night LOL


----------



## Slater (Dec 3, 2017)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Could you explain it in more detail?



As you can see from the photo of the bass vent (ie the little round hole by the nozzle), the vent hole on the left (the ZS5v1 and ZS5v2) is twice the size of the one on the right (the ZS6).

 

This is one of the primary reasons why the ZS6 has "better" bass than the ZS5 in most people's opinion (slightly more bass, tighter, punchier).

You can achieve this same tuning result on the ZS5 (v1 and v2) by covering 1/2 of the bass vent hole using a very small piece of tape. If you look closely in @RomStar's photo above, you can see the small piece of tape he used to cover half of the hole. Don't cover the ENTIRE hole - only cover about 1/2 of the hole.

The result is that the ZS5 will then have the same "better" bass as the ZS6 (ie slightly more bass, tighter, punchier).

Make sense?


----------



## vector84

@HiFiChris pointed out very early on in the ZS5 life cycle that the effect of that vent is pretty anatomy specific due to its placement, and that likely produces quite different bass quantities depending on fit - and that same effect will likely have the possibility of altering how taping that vent sounds somewhat on an individual basis (and there have been a slew of related posts corroborating this concept).

Or more simply if taping it doesn't sound like it makes a difference to you, there's a reason for that too, but changing tips might change your fit enough to make it very noticeable.


----------



## Slater (Dec 3, 2017)

vector84 said:


> @HiFiChris pointed out very early on in the ZS5 life cycle that the effect of that vent is pretty anatomy specific due to its placement, and that likely produces quite different bass quantities depending on fit - and that same effect will likely have the possibility of altering how taping that vent sounds somewhat on an individual basis (and there have been a slew of related posts corroborating this concept).
> 
> Or more simply if taping it doesn't sound like it makes a difference to you, there's a reason for that too, but changing tips might change your fit enough to make it very noticeable.



Here's an interesting photo of that same vent from the *inside*. Notice that it's directly in front of the "main" DD driver (ie the 10mm DD responsible for the overwhelming majority of the sub-bass and bass).


----------



## oyobass

Some quick thoughts on the ZS3 that arrived in my mailbox yesterday...
Build quality: Very nice. Lightweight but sturdy plastic with a unique custom mold look. Stock cord is, if anything, worse than the 5 and 6 of the serries.
Sound: Kind of an L shape- great bass, detailed present mids and clear but somewhat subdued treble, especially compared to the 5 and 6. I especially liked the way the vocals stood out vs. the later phones.
Comfort: I can only wear them for an hour without an ache in my ear from the way they press on them.
Bottom line: I like them alot. Are they the perfect earphones? No, but for the price, they are wonderful!
Note: I kept falling asleep during the typing of this mini review. At one point, ironically I was tapping out a series of Zzzz's, lol.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke




----------



## RomStar

Actually, the zs3 are the only other Kz's I own, and mainly because it is was 3. 99$ last month, which blows my mind (ATE coming soon)



The anesthetics of the Zs3 are possibly my favorite out of all the Kz's. Surprisingly they provide me with the best fit, and are super comfy.  I can wear them for hours on end without any discomfort.

Soundwise: They're pretty good, they sound darker and has much less treble presence than the Zs line up

Bass is the highlight, with good mids. The highs do sound unnatural on a few tracks. Overall, I wouldn't  mind if I paid $10 for them, they are an absolute steal for $3 (cheaper than a damn cup of coffee)

Also, the cable isn't inferior to the Zs lineup in terms of sound. It's just less sturdy and thinner. It's the same rubber hide that I dislike, but the Zs line of cables do feel like they will last slightly longer in terms of durability. Overall, pretty good, but I'd grab an upgrade cable if KZ provides them for the zs3

However, I am a sucker for how they look, and must admit, they do look very nice in person as well


----------



## RomStar (Dec 3, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


>


Damn, looks nice

You also posted nicer pic of you're Zs3's a while back  

On a more serious note, what's the benefit of putting on the Ear tips backwards? Is it just for looks or does it provide better seal/another benefit?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

RomStar said:


> Damn, looks nice
> 
> You also posted nicer pic of you're Zs3's a while back
> 
> On a more serious note, what's the benefit of putting on the Ear tips backwards? Is it just for looks or does it provide better seal/another benefit?


Definitely not for looks, it's a trick I picked up here in the thread from @oyobass.  I was having trouble getting a good fit on my right ear, no matter what type of tip I used, even when the same tip fit fine in my left ear. I tried reversing it and it works for me, I don't know if it's the shape or the angle, but something is kinda off about my right ear hole.


----------



## oyobass

RomStar said:


> Damn, looks nice
> 
> You also posted nicer pic of you're Zs3's a while back
> 
> On a more serious note, what's the benefit of putting on the Ear tips backwards? Is it just for looks or does it provide better seal/another benefit?


Purely practical. I think they look stupid with the tip on backwards...
I have pretty large ear holes, so turning the tip around gives a better seal. 
Whether it is because of the change in the volume of air inside my ears or the neoprene tube going all the way to the end of the back side of the tip, it gives me a little bit more treble as well.
It feels slightly itchy in my ear, but the alternative is having even large tips lose seal and eventually fall out without a lot of messing about and jamming them back in my ear.


----------



## CoiL

Before I comment latter posts about ZS3 sound, I would like to comment ZS3 INNER build quality - which is IMHO - quite rubbish!
Let me clear myself - sound tube is absolutely WORST "nozzle" tubbing I have ever seen! I mean, it is done with SHRINK TUBE, used for cables, connectors and such! How can KZ quarantee that all those tubes are shrunk in same size? Not to mention about crushed tubes ppl have been reporting and uneven placement between L/R shells? Add a lot of glue with uneven placement and result is meh?



oyobass said:


> Sound: Kind of an L shape- *great bass, detailed present mids and clear but somewhat subdued treble,* especially compared to the 5 and 6. I especially liked the way the vocals stood out vs. the later phones.


IMHO, bass is worst thing about ZS3 - it is boomy/soft, missing details and overpowered compared to other FR. Mids are clear-sided but rather recessed compared to whole FR. 
And treble is nowhere subdued imho, it is boosted on my unit, sounding unnatural on some traks, probably around 5-6kHz (not sure by ear).



RomStar said:


> *Bass is the highlight, with good mids*. The highs do sound unnatural on a few tracks.


Same opinion I just wrote above.

Now, this is all probably because of BQ differences and added foam pieces.

Only thing good about ZS3 for me personally is shells. Otherwise, quite mediocre chi-fi IEM.


----------



## RomStar (Dec 3, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Before I comment latter posts about ZS3 sound, I would like to comment ZS3 INNER build quality - which is IMHO - quite rubbish!
> Let me clear myself - sound tube is absolutely WORST "nozzle" tubbing I have ever seen! I mean, it is done with SHRINK TUBE, used for cables, connectors and such! How can KZ quarantee that all those tubes are shrunk in same size? Not to mention about crushed tubes ppl have been reporting and uneven placement between L/R shells? Add a lot of glue with uneven placement and result is meh?
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, very interesting

I did do the slater mods, where I poked the bass hole and got rid of the foam near the nozzles. Did you try the foam tips tho?

When I said the bass is the "highlight" I mean it's the main prowess or draw of the iem. I honestly wouldn't say the treble was boosted tho, I find it lacking (Halsey Colors-Audizen Remix). In fact, I would only agree with the recessed mids, but I think it's decent overall.

For $3. 99 I can't complain, hence I didn't make a direct comparison with my beloved Zs5. In fact, I have nothing to compare these with in that price range, hence you will see 0 reviews or mentions of the Zs3 from me, before this

All in all, it's dirt cheap and gets the job done I guess, I'll have to wait for my ATE if George is kind enough to provide a code soon. But yea, they're not great but not the worst I've heard as well (dark sounding and does feel congested at times, but more than good for $3)

Edit: At this rate I think it could be QC if you found the treble to be boosted. In no way am I doubting you're claims... But I still feel like they don't emphasize treble after listening again


----------



## TheVortex (Dec 3, 2017)

Looks like KZ are releasing a new storage pouch and the IE80 with a 5-way tuning dial !

https://shopee.com.my/KZ-Premium-PU-Leather-Storage-Pouch-i.6548893.726661081

https://shopee.com.my/KZ-IE80-Hifi-Sound-Tuning-Earphone-i.6548893.715173341


----------



## oyobass

CoiL said:


> Before I comment latter posts about ZS3 sound, I would like to comment ZS3 INNER build quality - which is IMHO - quite rubbish!
> Let me clear myself - sound tube is absolutely WORST "nozzle" tubbing I have ever seen! I mean, it is done with SHRINK TUBE, used for cables, connectors and such! How can KZ quarantee that all those tubes are shrunk in same size? Not to mention about crushed tubes ppl have been reporting and uneven placement between L/R shells? Add a lot of glue with uneven placement and result is meh?
> 
> 
> ...


Sometimes I wonder if we are listening to the same earphones in this thread. 
It must come down to ear shape and/or bad QC.
I must have got lucky in either case, since I'm really liking my set.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Slater said:


> As you can see from the photo of the bass vent (ie the little round hole by the nozzle), the vent hole on the left (the ZS5v1 and ZS5v2) is twice the size of the one on the right (the ZS6).
> Make sense?


Yes, it does. Thank you so much for the clarification.


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Yeah, that's the kind of stuff IP lawyers dream about at night LOL



I'm not sure that changes made after the fact are allowed as evidence.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> Sometimes I wonder if we are listening to the same earphones in this thread.
> It must come down to ear shape and/or bad QC.
> I must have got lucky in either case, since I'm really liking my set.


I think it's ear shape, QC issues, type of music people are using them for, their preferences/biases etc in sound signature, source equipment....
on and on, right? 
And a BIG one in this thread is, it seems like a lot of first impressions or quick impressions are being posted as definitive opinions. 
I know I have been on the fence with how I like my ZS5, so I haven't been on the board complaining about it, because I didn't know yet the cause of my issue with them. For example, my right ear couldn't get anything that felt right until I landed on:  a red New Bee medium foam installed backwards....and a totally different t400 blue foam on the left side. The sound going into either ear is the same that way, but with matching tips installed 'correctly' the sound was 'off' and my ears were hearing them differently and it was making the whole thing sound off....good thing I didn't come on here and rant and rave about how awful the sound is, right?


----------



## oyobass

I think that is what makes the line "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet" so funny and so accurate.
What is on man or woman's total sonic nirvana is another's total pile of steaming poo.
If you buy based on user reviews, you increase your chances of buying something that works for you, but there are no guarantees...


----------



## oyobass

oyobass said:


> I think that is what makes the line "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet" so funny and so accurate.
> What is on man or woman's total sonic nirvana is another's total pile of steaming poo.
> If you buy based on user reviews, you increase your chances of buying something that works for you, but there are no guarantees...


That is one thing that makes Chi-fi so appealing- our blunders into piles of poo don't end up costing hundreds a pop.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> I think that is what makes the line "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet" so funny and so accurate.
> What is on man or woman's total sonic nirvana is another's total pile of steaming poo.
> If you buy based on user reviews, you increase your chances of buying something that works for you, but there are no guarantees...


I get why people say that line "sorry about your wallet" but for me I have used Headfi to make MUCH better choices in headphones than I otherwise would have. 
I mean, several years ago, before I knew very much about headphones I got a set of Klipsch IEMs for like $60 and they were supposed really punch above their weight in terms of SQ...they did sound pretty damn good and I really liked them right up until their fragile wires broke, twice...now they sit in a box somewhere and every once in a while I give them dirty looks for only lasting 18 months or whatever it was. For _me _that was way too much money to not last at least 2-3 years.
Fast forward to today,I got a single driver IEM ZS3, dual driver ES3 and a quad driver ZS5, an extra bluetooth cable, and foam eartips for all of them.They fit better, sound better and if the cable breaks I throw it away and put on another one for $5. I paid less than $50.00 for the whole thing. I definitely got way more value for my money and the forum was essential to that


----------



## CoiL (Dec 3, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Actually, very interesting
> 
> I did do the slater mods, where I poked the bass hole and got rid of the foam near the nozzles. Did you try the foam tips tho?
> 
> ...


Yes, I did slater mod - removed foams, that`s why I said treble is boosted in sense of typical V-shaped sound (it is not harsh or sibilant, but sometimes unnatural). Sorry, forgot to mention it.
I left them play in loop for about 40h (without listening meanwhile) with pink noise and some music, nothing changed in very noticeable way, if anything.

That is my point I wanted to make with *bad tube material and construction* - ZS3 may have VERY different results from different ppl. Add source gear, music and personal hearing differences - You may get totally opposite opinions.


----------



## CoiL

TheVortex said:


> Looks like KZ are releasing a new storage pouch and the IE80 with a 5-way tuning dial !
> 
> https://shopee.com.my/KZ-Premium-PU-Leather-Storage-Pouch-i.6548893.726661081
> 
> https://shopee.com.my/KZ-IE80-Hifi-Sound-Tuning-Earphone-i.6548893.715173341


I think that Senny IE80 copy was done by KZ long time ago. I doubt this is new release, just some old stock left for some sellers probably.
And why would they do it if ZS4 and ZSR are coming? Doesn`t make sense.


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> I think that Senny IE80 copy was done by KZ long time ago. I doubt this is new release, just some old stock left for some sellers probably.
> And why would they do it if ZS4 and ZSR are coming? Doesn`t make sense.


I found reviews on Gearbest for these when the first post caught my attention. They were dated early 2015. So I figured pretty much the same thing. New old stock. Someone must have found boxes of these things in the corner of some warehouse


----------



## Mellowship

bsoplinger said:


> I found reviews on Gearbest for these when the first post caught my attention. They were dated early 2015. So I figured pretty much the same thing. New old stock. Someone must have found boxes of these things in the corner of some warehouse


I like them a lot. On my top 3 favourite kz IEMs.


----------



## TheVortex

Sorry guys, I thought they were a new IEM as I have only been following this thread for just under a year. What did people in general think of the KZ IE80?


----------



## bsoplinger

Mellowship said:


> I like them a lot. On my top 3 favourite kz IEMs.


Really? In today not 2015 terms? Are they worth considering for the low $20's price tag? I can keep an eye on George's Gearbest thread and spend about the same for the ZS6.


----------



## Wiljen

got my Zs6 Christmas gifts in yesterday.  What a great stocking stuffer for the friends and relatives that always look at you funny for your audio gear.   My guess is most of them will never be able to use the earphones that came with their cell phones again.   Who knows, maybe one of them turns out to be the next Pete Millett or NWAvguy, or Noble Wizard or...


----------



## Rilke (Dec 3, 2017)

On of the last green colored ZS6 of Aliexpress.After one wrong  color zs6 sended, two cancelled transactions,they became an obsession,couldn't sleep until recieving them.

They sound fantastic. Well built. Not just iem's they are a piece of jewelery  for ears. The color is very subtle, the shade of emerald changes with the ligthing. From my perspective the silver plated cable does'nt improve the sound but they look nice. I like the memory wire it helps keeping the ZS6 in place.



Some usefull infos :
Ollivan store & PZ Audio has the green ZS6 in store ( last time when I checked ) otherwise you'll have to buy them from taobao.


----------



## RomStar

CoiL said:


> I think that Senny IE80 copy was done by KZ long time ago. I doubt this is new release, just some old stock left for some sellers probably.
> And why would they do it if ZS4 and ZSR are coming? Doesn`t make sense.



Yep, mid 2015, so it's not new for sure, unless it has new guts which you would possibly love to tear apart 



bsoplinger said:


> I found reviews on Gearbest for these when the first post caught my attention. They were dated early 2015. So I figured pretty much the same thing. New old stock. Someone must have found boxes of these things in the corner of some warehouse



Actually makes a lot of sense haha, but I don't remember the dial at all tho

Maybe it's possible they made a slight revision with a tuning dial? 

But I do remember hearing they're good for the money when they released for $40, nothing amazing but mainly looked nice I guess


----------



## jlocano

Hello. I'm new to head-fi.

Can anyone tell the difference between V1 and V2 of KS5?

Thanks!


----------



## oyobass

jlocano said:


> Hello. I'm new to head-fi.
> 
> Can anyone tell the difference between V1 and V2 of KS5?
> 
> Thanks!


V1 has 4 drivers, no crossover. V2 has 4 drivers and a crossover. V1 has one of the BA drivers located in the body, one in the nozzle. V2 has both BA drivers in the nozzle, boosting the high end. V2 has a bit of port tuning tape on one of the dynamic drivers removed vs the V1, boosting the mids a bit.

I own the V1, not the V2. My info compiled from pages upon pages of discussion and not personal experience so take it with a grain of salt...


----------



## Smiped

Can someone suggest me better bluetooth modules for my KZ ZS6 than the standard KZ bluetooth cord? Thanks.


----------



## jlocano

oyobass said:


> V1 has 4 drivers, no crossover. V2 has 4 drivers and a crossover. V1 has one of the BA drivers located in the body, one in the nozzle. V2 has both BA drivers in the nozzle, boosting the high end. V2 has a bit of port tuning tape on one of the dynamic drivers removed vs the V1, boosting the mids a bit.
> 
> I own the V1, not the V2. My info compiled from pages upon pages of discussion and not personal experience so take it with a grain of salt...



Thanks a lot Oyobass. I thought perhaps the difference can also be seen on the product appearance.
Based on the info you gave and judging my unit by the sound it produces, probably they are the v2s.


----------



## vector84 (Dec 4, 2017)

Smiped said:


> Can someone suggest me better bluetooth modules for my KZ ZS6 than the standard KZ bluetooth cord? Thanks.


Might be helpful to specify a general budget and form factor preference if you have one...

For example on 3.5mm pluggable BT modules, the cheaper end Xiaomi BT module has gotten some talk lately... going up a few price categories, Fiio has the BTR1.
(or if you want aptX HD, you'll have to jump up a bit more in price?)


----------



## RomStar

Just received my NX3 and I must admit, the build quality does feel superb 

Very sturdy in the hand and smaller than my Note 5 except width 

Now I'll charge it a bit and test it out, let's hope I get some nice results


----------



## vector84

oyobass said:


> V2 has a bit of port tuning tape on one of the dynamic drivers removed vs the V1, boosting the mids a bit.


That's the ZS6 actually that has the tape removed, @Slater has put together some nice write-ups:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1678#post-13856223
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1671#post-13850238


jlocano said:


> Thanks a lot Oyobass. I thought perhaps the difference can also be seen on the product appearance.
> Based on the info you gave and judging my unit by the sound it produces, probably they are the v2s.


If you look at the second link I posted above, there's some nice pics of what sits underneath the nozzle screen - under the right lighting you can see through that screen and check for one (v1) or two (v2) little circles, which are the nozzles on the BAs.
Also if you got a white box, it's very likely it's a v2, black boxes could be either.


----------



## Smiped

vector84 said:


> Might be helpful to specify a general budget and form factor preference if you have one...
> 
> For example on 3.5mm pluggable BT modules, the cheaper end Xiaomi BT module has gotten some talk lately... going up a few price categories, Fiio has the BTR1.
> (or if you want aptX HD, you'll have to jump up a bit more in price?)



I don't want a 3.5 pluggable BT module. I just want a BT line that can be plugged into both earphones without it being wired to my phone other than the one KZ sells.


----------



## vector84

Smiped said:


> I don't want a 3.5 pluggable BT module. I just want a BT line that can be plugged into both earphones without it being wired to my phone other than the one KZ sells.


As far as I know, there are no other 0.72/0.75mm 2-pin BT modules.

But anything designed for 2pin 0.78mm plugs (Westone/UE compatible 2-pin BT cables, Auglamore has a nice neckband one, etc) will be able to connect with KZs, but have the same problems as any other 0.78mm pin cables with KZs (stretches them out too far to use stock cables).


----------



## Smiped

vector84 said:


> As far as I know, there are no other 0.72/0.75mm 2-pin BT modules.
> 
> But anything designed for 2pin 0.78mm plugs (Westone/UE compatible 2-pin BT cables, Auglamore has a nice neckband one, etc) will be able to connect with KZs, but have the same problems as any other 0.78mm pin cables with KZs (stretches them out too far to use stock cables).



Woah, those cables are pretty expensive compared to the stock KZ ones. 

So the 2 pin 0.78mm can connect, but what do you mean it stretches them out too far?


----------



## vector84

Smiped said:


> So the 2 pin 0.78mm can connect, but what do you mean it stretches them out too far?


KZ 2-pin sockets are made for 0.72/0.75mm pins (these are the sizes of KZ stock and KZ upgrade cables).  When you connect 0.78mm pins instead, you will widen the sockets slightly (you might even need to use a pin or something to help widen them the first time), and KZ cables will no longer fit securely because their pins are smaller, but you can continue to use 0.78mm like most other non-KZ 2-pin cables just fine.


----------



## jlocano

vector84 said:


> That's the ZS6 actually that has the tape removed, @Slater has put together some nice write-ups:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1678#post-13856223
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1671#post-13850238
> 
> ...



I did check and indistinctly see 2 circles behind the nozzle grills. Will it affect the sound in a good or bad way if I remove the grills?


----------



## vector84

jlocano said:


> I did check and indistinctly see 2 circles behind the nozzle grills. Will it affect the sound in a good or bad way if I remove the grills?


I don't think anyone has posted anything about how it sounds to remove them on the v2.

@CoiL noted a preference for removing them on the v1, and I'm inclined to agree, but a few other posters did not like the results.  Most people find the steel screens to be fairly transparent sounding though.


----------



## jlocano

vector84 said:


> I don't think anyone has posted anything about how it sounds to remove them on the v2.
> 
> @CoiL noted a preference for removing them on the v1, and I'm inclined to agree, but a few other posters did not like the results.  Most people find the steel screens to be fairly transparent sounding though.



Thanks @vector84


----------



## Mellowship

bsoplinger said:


> Really? In today not 2015 terms? Are they worth considering for the low $20's price tag? I can keep an eye on George's Gearbest thread and spend about the same for the ZS6.


On today's terms. Very different from the new kz, though. Less v-shaped. The quality is excellent, the rotating tuner really works, the cable could be better (got a third party from tingo which does the job). But the mids are really well defined on this Senn clone. The bass is sort of tamed, even in the max position, there's little sub bass just to spice things a bit, mid bass is lush and agile, treble is somewhat very close to the signature Senn house sound, good definition and extension but slightly veiled. It does not roll off, not at least up to 16khz (can't hear beyond that anyway), and it's not heavily veiled, just a little bit softened. 

Fit is tricky. Works well with large foams and wide bore shallow insertion silicones. Not so good with deep silicones, as it tends to move and lose the tight fit it needs to render good bass. 

For 17 USD, a great iem.


----------



## bsoplinger

On the topic of new releases, saw this in the QKZ store on Aliexpress.com 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010609.8148355.32.373f8a48Rjk85H

Could this be a hint about the new hybrid you've been talking about? Or just a copy of something they're OEM-ing for another company?


----------



## ivo001

bsoplinger said:


> On the topic of new releases, saw this in the QKZ store on Aliexpress.com
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010609.8148355.32.373f8a48Rjk85H
> 
> Could this be a hint about the new hybrid you've been talking about? Or just a copy of something they're OEM-ing for another company?



I think that belongs in the chinese brand topic and not the KZ topic.


----------



## oyobass

vector84 said:


> That's the ZS6 actually that has the tape removed, @Slater has put together some nice write-ups:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1678#post-13856223
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1671#post-13850238
> 
> ...


Thanks for the correction. I should have referenced Slater's post, rather than relying on my memory, lol.


----------



## Willber

ivo001 said:


> I think that belongs in the chinese brand topic and not the KZ topic.


KZ and QKZ are affiliated, I think:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-vs-qkz-confusion.816417/


----------



## Wiljen

RomStar said:


> Just received my NX3 and I must admit, the build quality does feel superb
> 
> Very sturdy in the hand and smaller than my Note 5 except width
> 
> Now I'll charge it a bit and test it out, let's hope I get some nice results



Wow, just wow!  Mine, ordered the same day, doesn't even show that it shipped yet.


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> On the topic of new releases, saw this in the QKZ store on Aliexpress.com
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010609.8148355.32.373f8a48Rjk85H
> 
> Could this be a hint about the new hybrid you've been talking about? Or just a copy of something they're OEM-ing for another company?



Might I add the model for those things is cute as a button I'm such a sucker for green eyes, sad part is she could be my granddaughter So is this what the ZSR is supposed to resemble? (Anyone)


----------



## kokakolia

Mellowship said:


> On today's terms. Very different from the new kz, though. Less v-shaped. The quality is excellent, the rotating tuner really works, the cable could be better (got a third party from tingo which does the job). But the mids are really well defined on this Senn clone. The bass is sort of tamed, even in the max position, there's little sub bass just to spice things a bit, mid bass is lush and agile, treble is somewhat very close to the signature Senn house sound, good definition and extension but slightly veiled. It does not roll off, not at least up to 16khz (can't hear beyond that anyway), and it's not heavily veiled, just a little bit softened.
> 
> Fit is tricky. Works well with large foams and wide bore shallow insertion silicones. Not so good with deep silicones, as it tends to move and lose the tight fit it needs to render good bass.
> 
> For 17 USD, a great iem.



Huh!? That sounds...good! Thank the high heavens! Finally a KZ IEM that doesn't sound hollow with harsh ear-stabbing treble blasting into your ear-holes. Because "CLARITY MORTAL!!!"

If I ever lose my KEF M100s, I'll give these try.


----------



## CoiL

bsoplinger said:


> On the topic of new releases, saw this in the QKZ store on Aliexpress.com
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010609.8148355.32.373f8a48Rjk85H
> 
> Could this be a hint about the new hybrid you've been talking about? Or just a copy of something they're OEM-ing for another company?


This is not KZ. If You look at logos on housings - it is rather AuGlamour brand. QKZ just puts its reseller name in front of "everything" they can sell. QKZ is not KZ.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

smy1 said:


> I ordered the KZ ed7 I hope they are good.


Can I get the link?


----------



## oyobass

Podster said:


> Might I add the model for those things is cute as a button I'm such a sucker for green eyes, sad part is she could be my granddaughter So is this what the ZSR is supposed to resemble? (Anyone)


Aggree. What, she was wearing earphones? Hard to pay attention to the earphones with those eyes in the photo.


----------



## Podster

oyobass said:


> Aggree. What, she was wearing earphones? Hard to pay attention to the earphones with those eyes in the photo.



LOL, that's why it's called Marketing Heck, I didn't even have her in any of these ads!!!!!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

CoiL said:


> This is not KZ. If You look at logos on housings - it is rather AuGlamour brand. QKZ just puts its reseller name in front of "everything" they can sell. QKZ is not KZ.



QKZ is also a notorious piece of garbage. Sometimes you get a good one, but odds are way higher it'll be crap.


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> This is not KZ. If You look at logos on housings - it is rather AuGlamour brand. QKZ just puts its reseller name in front of "everything" they can sell. QKZ is not KZ.


Hence the part of my post where I asked _Or just a copy of something they're OEM-ing for another company? _Since they regularly do just what you've said. But since I didn't recognize the model I posted the question.


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like the new KZ soft carry pouch is now available from aliexpress.


----------



## pringles147

Just a headsup about KZ ZSR in case you haven't heard. Apparently release date is Dec 12. Because of some Chinese sales-day. Price will be very reasonable also. 168 rmb or about 25 USD.
These pictures are taken from Taobao.
Did a rough translation of the picture (and I'm probably wrong) but it appeared to say 6 drivers. So a total of 12. Sounds to good to be true so maybe someone can check it out who reads chinese 
Sorry if I´m posting somethin obvious. First post ever and I´m really excited about these headphones


----------



## Mellowship

pringles147 said:


> Just a headsup about KZ ZSR in case you haven't heard. Apparently release date is Dec 12. Because of some Chinese sales-day. Price will be very reasonable also. 168 rmb or about 25 USD.
> These pictures are taken from Taobao.
> Did a rough translation of the picture (and I'm probably wrong) but it appeared to say 6 drivers. So a total of 12. Sounds to good to be true so maybe someone can check it out who reads chinese
> Sorry if I´m posting somethin obvious. First post ever and I´m really excited about these headphones


6 drivers as 3 in the left and 3 in the right. They usually add them up.


----------



## oyobass

pringles147 said:


> Just a headsup about KZ ZSR in case you haven't heard. Apparently release date is Dec 12. Because of some Chinese sales-day. Price will be very reasonable also. 168 rmb or about 25 USD.
> These pictures are taken from Taobao.
> Did a rough translation of the picture (and I'm probably wrong) but it appeared to say 6 drivers. So a total of 12. Sounds to good to be true so maybe someone can check it out who reads chinese
> Sorry if I´m posting somethin obvious. First post ever and I´m really excited about these headphones


The traditional greeting on these boards for new posters is: "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!", although Chi-Fi products tend to put a much smaller dent is said wallet. Enjoy the forums!


----------



## pringles147

Thanks for the
Welcome to Head-Fi, my wallet is fine since I enjoy the Knowledge Zenith headphones. I am now ready to enjoy the forum and all topic-related comments. (No need to comment about grammar mistakes either, I never learn )


----------



## nkramer

oyobass said:


> The traditional greeting on these boards for new posters is: "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!", although Chi-Fi products tend to put a much smaller dent is said wallet. Enjoy the forums!



but if you grab a handful of these "smaller dents" you still end up with a totaled.... wallet.

i know i've grabbed 2 different ones in less than a week. i've never done that before. usually every couple years i'll replace a pair that's starting to fall apart.

on another note, i was listening to an audience recoding of a live performance earlier today (on ZST) and was really impressed.


----------



## oyobass

nkramer said:


> but if you grab a handful of these "smaller dents" you still end up with a totaled.... wallet.
> 
> i know i've grabbed 2 different ones in less than a week. i've never done that before. usually every couple years i'll replace a pair that's starting to fall apart.
> 
> on another note, i was listening to an audience recoding of a live performance earlier today (on ZST) and was really impressed.


My favorite for live recordings is the ZS5 v1. Really amps up the live excitement and lets you feel a real sense of air in the room... at least to me and my ears.


----------



## pringles147

Mellowship said:


> 6 drivers as 3 in the left and 3 in the right. They usually add them up.


Did you read that from the text? I know that’s how they usually count them but when I translated I saw the number 6 as in 6 per headphone. So total would be 12 in that case.


----------



## nkramer

haven't tried those yet. only KZ i have (so far.... ) is ZST & ZS3. as well as ZST being the 1st hybrid/dual driver i've ever had as well.

actually bought the ZS3 to cannibalize the cord & connectors for a different pair that's in dire need of a new cord.
really like the ZS3 shells (probably more than the ZST shells)

i love balanced armatures, that's what initially pulled me in... a balanced armature.... at that price.... with detachable cord..... ?????    Really?


----------



## oyobass (Dec 5, 2017)

nkramer said:


> haven't tried those yet. only KZ i have (so far.... ) is ZST & ZS3. as well as ZST being the 1st hybrid/dual driver i've ever had as well.
> 
> actually bought the ZS3 to cannibalize the cord & connectors for a different pair that's in dire need of a new cord.
> really like the ZS3 shells (probably more than the ZST shells)
> ...


I remember back over ten years ago, I got an Ultimate Ears single BA set for $99 on sale, thought I was getting a steal of a deal. Now I have the ZST, ZS5 and ZS6 and still haven't spent that amount.
I may also cannibalize my ZS3- to repair the UE- it has the same type of 2-pin cable connections... then again, maybe not. I really like the mellower sound of the ZS3.


----------



## nkramer

oyobass said:


> I remember back over ten years ago, I got an Ultimate Ears single BA set for $99 on sale, thought I was getting a steal of a deal. Now I have the ZST, ZS5 and ZS6 and still haven't spent that amount.
> I may also cannibalize my ZS3- to repair the UE- it has the same type of 2-pin cable connections... then again, maybe not. I really like the mellower sound of the ZS3.



yep. i was looking at those, at that time as well.

my 1st jump into the audio pond was the etymotic er-6i. still have them, still love them paired with a cmoybb.


----------



## kokakolia

oyobass said:


> The traditional greeting on these boards for new posters is: "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!", although Chi-Fi products tend to put a much smaller dent is said wallet. Enjoy the forums!



I'd argue the opposite! I bought an ATE and it sounded like garbage. Then I bought a ZSE and it sounded kinda terrible. Then I bought the ZS5 and it was OK, but the sharp highs made me tired. And then I'm pissed off because I could have bought something so much better for $50 or less. But out of frustration, I went overboard and spent $100 on some KEF earphones and I couldn't be happier! 

You get what you pay for with KZ. You could simply get 1 good earphone, but you buy 5 garbage ones from KZ instead.


----------



## oyobass

kokakolia said:


> I'd argue the opposite! I bought an ATE and it sounded like garbage. Then I bought a ZSE and it sounded kinda terrible. Then I bought the ZS5 and it was OK, but the sharp highs made me tired. And then I'm pissed off because I could have bought something so much better for $50 or less. But out of frustration, I went overboard and spent $100 on some KEF earphones and I couldn't be happier!
> 
> You get what you pay for with KZ. You could simply get 1 good earphone, but you buy 5 garbage ones from KZ instead.


As the saying goes- one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I'm really enjoying my KZs. I'm glad I don't know any better...


----------



## vladstef

kokakolia said:


> I'd argue the opposite! I bought an ATE and it sounded like garbage. Then I bought a ZSE and it sounded kinda terrible. Then I bought the ZS5 and it was OK, but the sharp highs made me tired. And then I'm pissed off because I could have bought something so much better for $50 or less. But out of frustration, I went overboard and spent $100 on some KEF earphones and I couldn't be happier!
> 
> You get what you pay for with KZ. You could simply get 1 good earphone, but you buy 5 garbage ones from KZ instead.



This gets mentioned here from time to time. The thing is, this is their business model and unfortunately it's very easy to become a victim of it. It is even easier because we don't expect this from such a company, we don't expect them to have a business model at all. This way they get their profit with less potential to do serious damage to their income by releasing an under performing but more expensive product. I thought that ZS6 was a step in a different direction but it ended up being the same.


----------



## Slater

pringles147 said:


> Just a headsup about KZ ZSR in case you haven't heard. Apparently release date is Dec 12. Because of some Chinese sales-day. Price will be very reasonable also. 168 rmb or about 25 USD.
> These pictures are taken from Taobao.
> Did a rough translation of the picture (and I'm probably wrong) but it appeared to say 6 drivers. So a total of 12. Sounds to good to be true so maybe someone can check it out who reads chinese
> Sorry if I´m posting somethin obvious. First post ever and I´m really excited about these headphones



6 drivers is the total between the pair (so 3 drivers each side (ie 1xDD + 2xBA).

The ChiFi manufacturers seem to prefer stating their drivers this way in the marketing - I guess it sound more impressive that way. It just causes confusion IMO. Imagine if full size room speakers were marketed as "6-way speakers" instead of "3-way speakers"?


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'm perfectly happy with the 30 or so KZ's I've got


----------



## paulindss

pringles147 said:


> Just a headsup about KZ ZSR in case you haven't heard. Apparently release date is Dec 12. Because of some Chinese sales-day. Price will be very reasonable also. 168 rmb or about 25 USD.
> These pictures are taken from Taobao.
> Did a rough translation of the picture (and I'm probably wrong) but it appeared to say 6 drivers. So a total of 12. Sounds to good to be true so maybe someone can check it out who reads chinese
> Sorry if I´m posting somethin obvious. First post ever and I´m really excited about these headphones



At what price goes Zs6 or es3 in the same site ? How much "rmb" ? in that way we can have a better idea of the equivalent price that zsr can reach.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If it's seriously 6 per side for $20 I fear KZ is collapsing down the hole of "cram as many drivers in there for no reason."


----------



## vector84 (Dec 5, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> I'd argue the opposite! I bought an ATE and it sounded like garbage. Then I bought a ZSE and it sounded kinda terrible. Then I bought the ZS5 and it was OK, but the sharp highs made me tired. And then I'm pissed off because I could have bought something so much better for $50 or less. But out of frustration, I went overboard and spent $100 on some KEF earphones and I couldn't be happier!


What you still seem to be missing is that this is a brand specific impressions thread.

If you'd taken your crusade over to the budget chi-fi thread, it probably would've gone over better. 
(I don't think just made in China and then sold under a western brand counts for that thread, but I still feel like it would've gone over better)


----------



## vector84

So I got around to messing with my ZSE a bit... the red nozzle filter bothers me - it sounds muddy and veiled, but taking it off exposes way too much sharpness for me.

Took a piece of foam (I picked up a bunch of pre-cut foam disks made for this purpose a while back ), and crammed it into the nozzle under a steel screen - a little subdued in the treble now perhaps, but tastefully so imo:


----------



## AxelCloris

Friendly mod reminder that we recently cleaned up off topic discussion and we've had to do so again today. Please keep discussions on-topic in the thread. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Smiped

Does it bother anyone that the KZ ZS6 looks so similar to Campfire Audio's products? It makes me feel as if they ripped their design from them.


----------



## jlocano

vector84 said:


> If you look at the second link I posted above, there's some nice pics of what sits underneath the nozzle screen - under the right lighting you can see through that screen and check for one (v1) or two (v2) little circles, which are the nozzles on the BAs.
> Also if you got a white box, it's very likely it's a v2, black boxes could be either.



So I did remove the "grills" on ZS5 nozzles to see if mine is v1 or v2. I was hoping to see 2 BAs right at nozzles but I saw otherwise.

Would you guys say v1 still have advantages over v2?


----------



## vector84 (Dec 6, 2017)

jlocano said:


> Would you guys say v1 still have advantages over v2?


 That's going to be a somewhat weighted question.

The v1 is much more picky about sources, and a fair amount of work has been done in this thread to explain why.  People that like the v1 will typically tell you it's worth the effort (I love mine).  But there are plenty of happy campers with the v2 as well, and it is definitely far less demanding on sources - and brighter in the 7-10kHz region to the tune of some very wide spread recommendations on foam tips. 

There are some interesting technical differences between them too that seem to align with certain people's perceptions in interesting ways, but they don't strike me as correlating well enough to be highly relevant.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

V1 will scale up with sources pretty nicely, but even at the lower end it sounds crazy good to my ears.  I've used it on the crappy headphone out on my XPS 13 and my slightly better headphone out on my HTC One M9 daily and still enjoyed it more than all my other earbuds.


----------



## ivo001

I'm starting to grow impatient waiting for my ZS5 from Gearbest. Ordered it on the 8th of November, and according to the tracking it has arrived twice in country of destination? That was on the 29th and 30th. Still ahven't received them.
Meanwhile, I have received 2 other Gearbest orders that were placed on 17 november and 19 november. (9 and 11 days later). Also received all 4 my 11.11 AE Orders like 2 weeks ago already...


----------



## eaglesgift

Cruelhand Luke said:


> 1) didn't see that comment until after I posted mine 2) they don't seem to be DOING anything about this character, so perhaps peer pressure and gentle reminders that he is being a p.i.t.a. will induce some behavior modification? obviously "just ignore him and he'll go away" isn't working.


I couldn't agree more. I'm fed up to the back teeth of having to read his bitter rants. I recommend putting him on ignore Luke.


----------



## JayceOoi

Wow... GearBest keeps doing promotion on ZS6. $22.99 with this code - ZS6KG
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## oyobass

ivo001 said:


> I'm starting to grow impatient waiting for my ZS5 from Gearbest. Ordered it on the 8th of November, and according to the tracking it has arrived twice in country of destination? That was on the 29th and 30th. Still ahven't received them.
> Meanwhile, I have received 2 other Gearbest orders that were placed on 17 november and 19 november. (9 and 11 days later). Also received all 4 my 11.11 AE Orders like 2 weeks ago already...


I just received the ZST I ordered Oct 25 yesterday. Customer service told me there is a 3 month acceptable window on free shipping, so I guess I was lucky to get it in 40 days.


----------



## groucho69

Smiped said:


> Does it bother anyone that the KZ ZS6 looks so similar to Campfire Audio's products? It makes me feel as if they ripped their design from them.



In a word, no.


----------



## eaglesgift

oyobass said:


> I just received the ZST I ordered Oct 25 yesterday. Customer service told me there is a 3 month acceptable window on free shipping, so I guess I was lucky to get it in 40 days.


3 months might be 'acceptable' to them but I doubt any of their customers would agree.


----------



## alota

i received the kz6 today. despite the sound(i have no tried), the build is excellent for an headphone that costs only 24€.
i had the kz zst and now the kz zs5 that like so much with comply confort tips


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Smiped said:


> Does it bother anyone that the KZ ZS6 looks so similar to Campfire Audio's products? It makes me feel as if they ripped their design from them.



It... they did. That is exactly what they did.  I thought that was rather obvious.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

eaglesgift said:


> 3 months might be 'acceptable' to them but I doubt any of their customers would agree.



3 months shipping is unacceptable unless they're sending it by bicycle.


----------



## Podster

ivo001 said:


> I'm starting to grow impatient waiting for my ZS5 from Gearbest. Ordered it on the 8th of November, and according to the tracking it has arrived twice in country of destination? That was on the 29th and 30th. Still ahven't received them.
> Meanwhile, I have received 2 other Gearbest orders that were placed on 17 november and 19 november. (9 and 11 days later). Also received all 4 my 11.11 AE Orders like 2 weeks ago already...



Not sure where you are located but Gearbest got these to me in 16 Days The RED ones are fire


----------



## ivo001

Podster said:


> Not sure where you are located but Gearbest got these to me in 16 Days The RED ones are fire



I'm in the Netherlands. (Look at the top right corner of my message)
The odd thing is, that orders placed 9 and 11 days later in the same shop, to the same destination arrived earlier. And those were the orders I was least excited for.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

ivo001 said:


> I'm starting to grow impatient waiting for my ZS5 from Gearbest. Ordered it on the 8th of November


The same with me about ZS5 and 3. "Shipped" on November 16.


----------



## Podster

ivo001 said:


> I'm in the Netherlands. (Look at the top right corner of my message)
> The odd thing is, that orders placed 9 and 11 days later in the same shop, to the same destination arrived earlier. And those were the orders I was least excited for.



You know I often wonder if these sellers do just one mass shipment per month to save cost/trips. Could be one might order something the day after they ship and then wait for a full month to catch the next shipment train, I have no idea but have wondered as this has happened to me as well. Then their are the ones that sell you something and they are waiting for new stock to arrive but fail to let the buyer know this


----------



## eaglesgift

Podster said:


> Not sure where you are located but Gearbest got these to me in 16 Days The RED ones are fire


That right one looks damaged?


----------



## oyobass

SomeGuyDude said:


> 3 months shipping is unacceptable unless they're sending it by bicycle.


Son (whining): "But dad, I don't want to go to America with  a delivery!" Dad (growling): "Shut up and keep on swimming!"


----------



## oyobass

eaglesgift said:


> 3 months might be 'acceptable' to them but I doubt any of their customers would agree.


With free shipping, you get what you pay for.


----------



## eaglesgift

oyobass said:


> With free shipping, you get what you pay for.


Sorry I don't buy that excuse. Sellers offer free shipping as an enticement to order from them. Just because it's 'free', doesn't mean it should be unacceptably slow. 3 months is absolutely pathetic in the 21st century.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Not sure where you are located but Gearbest got these to me in 16 Days The RED ones are fire



What's all of the crud on the R earpiece?


----------



## kokakolia

eaglesgift said:


> Sorry I don't buy that excuse. Sellers offer free shipping as an enticement to order from them. Just because it's 'free', doesn't mean it should be unacceptably slow. 3 months is absolutely pathetic in the 21st century.



Hmm...not when it ships from a slow Cargo ship across the world. Also, the Cargo ship has to be filled up. It doesn't happen overnight. I think you gotta manage your expectations a little bit. 

Further, there are many great alternatives out there with 2 day shipping. You just have to pay a little more.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

oyobass said:


> With free shipping, you get what you pay for.



This is why I pony up the extra few bucks when it shows up on Amazon. Might cost a bit more but I'll get it in 2 days.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> What's all of the crud on the R earpiece?



Fingerprints on the box, not the earpiece.


----------



## Podster

eaglesgift said:


> That right one looks damaged?



Yikes, good catch as I've not really even done much with them since I'm waiting on my tri-braid! Seems it was some kind of glue debris or something took a soft cloth and water and it has come off or at least my old eyes don't see it anymore?






However I was disappointed my Gearbest pair did not come with Starline like my black pair from KZ


----------



## AxelCloris

oyobass said:


> With free shipping, you get what you pay for.


I wanted to see what all the hype was about, so I placed an order for a KZ IEM on July 14th. I chose free shipping expecting a 1-2 month wait and it never arrived. After contacting them, the store that sold it to me was unwilling to help locate the package or send a replacement. Sometimes you don't get anything at all.


----------



## Slater

AxelCloris said:


> I wanted to see what all the hype was about, so I placed an order for a KZ IEM on July 14th. I chose free shipping expecting a 1-2 month wait and it never arrived. After contacting them, the store that sold it to me was unwilling to help locate the package or send a replacement. Sometimes you don't get anything at all.



From Aliexpress? Gerbest? What IEM if you don't mind me asking.

I actually had all of my IEMs in my car at the Ohio CanJam - if I had known, I could have found the one you wanted and let you had a listen


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Yikes, good catch as I've not really even done much with them since I'm waiting on my tri-braid! Seems it was some kind of glue debris or something took a soft cloth and water and it has come off or at least my old eyes don't see it anymore?
> 
> However I was disappointed my Gearbest pair did not come with Starline like my black pair from KZ



Hmmm, crud on the earpiece and missing the eartips? Sounds fishy...as in used.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Hmmm, crud on the earpiece and missing the eartips? Sounds fishy...as in used.



@Slater , they had new tips on them and as far as they looked it was factory sealed

@AxelCloris , if you would not mind could you share that seller with this crowd?

Did I mention I 'Hate" KZ LOL


----------



## AxelCloris

Slater said:


> From Aliexpress? Gerbest? What IEM if you don't mind me asking.
> 
> I actually had all of my IEMs in my car at the Ohio CanJam - if I had known, I could have found the one you wanted and let you had a listen


It was one of KZ's cheaper models, so I wasn't out much. I took the whole situation as a learning experience.

Had I known there were some at the meet I may have given them a demo. Maybe that'll happen at a future meet.


----------



## oyobass

kokakolia said:


> Hmm...not when it ships from a slow Cargo ship across the world. Also, the Cargo ship has to be filled up. It doesn't happen overnight. I think you gotta manage your expectations a little bit.
> 
> Further, there are many great alternatives out there with 2 day shipping. You just have to pay a little more.


According to Gearbest, my order was shipped out via *Azerbaijan Air Mail*. Must have been via carrier pigeon air mail...


----------



## oyobass

AxelCloris said:


> I wanted to see what all the hype was about, so I placed an order for a KZ IEM on July 14th. I chose free shipping expecting a 1-2 month wait and it never arrived. After contacting them, the store that sold it to me was unwilling to help locate the package or send a replacement. Sometimes you don't get anything at all.


I tried the free shipping as an experiment for my third set of ZSTs. If they never came, I was out $8.99 and would have had to order another set for my daughter, who also has quite a few headphones/earphones and wouldn't really miss them.

The result of the experiment? $1 to $2 is a bargain for tracked, registered shipping from China. That is what I'll use from now on.


----------



## eaglesgift

oyobass said:


> According to Gearbest, my order was shipped out via *Azerbaijan Air Mail*. Must have been via carrier pigeon air mail...


Yes, I don't think anybody uses cargo ships to fill retail orders, that would be really ridiculous. It would take 5-6 weeks from Asia to the USA so there'd be no way to explain how some shipments got there in around 2-3 weeks.


----------



## Aevum

Anyone else expiriancing a 400ms lag with the KZ bluetooth adapter, have tested it with both my K1 Tablet and Zuk Z2, both are showing the same lag making it only good for music, usless for anything else.


----------



## TheVortex

Aevum said:


> Anyone else expiriancing a 400ms lag with the KZ bluetooth adapter, have tested it with both my K1 Tablet and Zuk Z2, both are showing the same lag making it only good for music, usless for anything else.



I get the same lag so I don't use it with anything with video.


----------



## Slater

Aevum said:


> Anyone else expiriancing a 400ms lag with the KZ bluetooth adapter, have tested it with both my K1 Tablet and Zuk Z2, both are showing the same lag making it only good for music, usless for anything else.





TheVortex said:


> I get the same lag so I don't use it with anything with video.



Yeah, I stopped using it for videos and movies because of the lag.

I have since switched to another non-KZ bluetooth/aptX IEM for movies and videos. It has literally zero detectable lag. Very happy with it.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Yeah, I stopped using it for videos and movies because of the lag.
> 
> I have since switched to another non-KZ bluetooth/aptX IEM for movies and videos. It has literally zero detectable lag. Very happy with it.



Hi Slater, what have you switched to?


----------



## Slater (Dec 6, 2017)

TheVortex said:


> Hi Slater, what have you switched to?



Meizu EP52. For best sound you need to switch out the stock nozzle screens for $0.07 worth of stainless mesh screens.

I still use KZ ZST with Bluetooth cable for music though - I like it for exercising.


----------



## alota

About shipping i bought kz5 and kz6 from gearbest, with flash sale and free shipping.
I have received in around one month trough post nl and without any custom fee


----------



## bsoplinger

I thought that pretty much the only way to get low latency Bluetooth audio was to have AptX (ie v4.1) on both sides of the transmission? Is I wrong?

Re: 3 months… The junk would have to sail all the way around cape horn to get to the Netherlands, wouldn't it?  Since the Russian northwest passage still isn't 100% yet, we need a few more years of global warming to make it readily available.


----------



## Slater (Dec 6, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> I thought that pretty much the only way to get low latency Bluetooth audio was to have AptX (ie v4.1) on both sides of the transmission? Is I wrong?
> 
> Re: 3 months… The junk would have to sail all the way around cape horn to get to the Netherlands, wouldn't it?  Since the Russian northwest passage still isn't 100% yet, we need a few more years of global warming to make it readily available.



Not 100% sure.

I’ve used the EP52 with my iPhone SE, iPod Tough 5G, and Acer Chromebook (so far), none of which have aptX.

You're right though - the EP52 is BT 4.1.

I’ll also clarify that when I say “zero” lag, I’m taking in a subjective real world perception, not a scientifically-measured one. Of course there’s some lag, I just can’t detect it via video speech vs lip movement. Whereas the KZ BT has annoyingly noticeable lip sync lag.

Scientifically, the EP52 is probably considered “low/ultra-low latency”.


----------



## ivo001

Podster said:


> @Slater , they had new tips on them and as far as they looked it was factory sealed
> 
> @AxelCloris , if you would not mind could you share that seller with this crowd?
> 
> Did I mention I 'Hate" KZ LOL



You keep them all in the same cases? How do you tell them apart? You put labels on em? Or just keep opening till you find the one you want? Haha.


----------



## Podster

Red Nail Polish on the bottom of the case Looks as though I'll be performing 5 surgeries tonight since my three new type "A" tri-braid's came in for my ZS5V1's and red ZS6's removing the idiot (Oh sorry) ear wires from all of them! I did it to the Bronze cable and not much of a difference in it and the tri-braid plus it really looks nice on the black ZS6 My order of preference are ZS6, ZST and then the ZS5V1's which compared to the other two sound dark and less detailed but of course YMMV


----------



## kokakolia

Aevum said:


> Anyone else expiriancing a 400ms lag with the KZ bluetooth adapter, have tested it with both my K1 Tablet and Zuk Z2, both are showing the same lag making it only good for music, usless for anything else.




Yeah, that's been mentioned by the (mediocre and shady) YouTube reviewer TechmanZ.


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> You keep them all in the same cases? How do you tell them apart? You put labels on em? Or just keep opening till you find the one you want? Haha.



Not sure what everyone else does, but I put a small square of that "blue" painters tape on the outside of each case, and write the IEM on the tape with sharpie (as well as any specific information, such as "FF Mod ATE" on 1, "Stock ATR" on another, "Modded ZS6" on another, etc).

The "blue" tape sticks well to all of the different cases I have (even the KZ "woven fabric" case), and it comes off cleanly if ever needed.


----------



## Superluc

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Can I get the link?


Official: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Bass-Stereo-Earbuds/1358152_32703905990.html


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> Not sure what everyone else does, but I put a small square of that "blue" painters tape on the outside of each case, and write the IEM on the tape with sharpie (as well as any specific information, such as "FF Mod ATE" on 1, "Stock ATR" on another, "Modded ZS6" on another, etc).
> 
> The "blue" tape sticks well to all of the different cases I have (even the KZ "woven fabric" case), and it comes off cleanly if ever needed.


I keep my IEMs, earbuds and portables (about 20 of them) hanging on tacks along a shelf. My three on/over-ears are just sort of lying around, but I live on my own so it's not a problem.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

It's roulette for me - all my IEMs are in generic round black zipper cases lol.

Actually though, I don't have many duplicates and will stack them in brand groups.  Least favorite on the bottom and favs on the top.  I also have a bag which generally always has my KZ ZS5 since I bring it around every day, as well as a cable-down IEM of my choice(currently the CX98).


----------



## B9Scrambler

Ew! Another one of those nasty "KZ" things appeared on my doorstep. What is wrong with you people who buy them?!


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> Yeah, that's been mentioned by the (mediocre and shady) YouTube reviewer TechmanZ.



What's so shady about TechmanZ, haha? He's better than a lot of others out there, buys mostly everything he reviews (for those that care) and is about as straightforward as it gets. Mind you he could spend more time with something before reviewing it, though we're not really his target audience so I doubt his main audience would care.


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> I thought that pretty much the only way to get low latency Bluetooth audio was to have AptX (ie v4.1) on both sides of the transmission? Is I wrong?





Slater said:


> Not 100% sure.
> 
> I’ve used the EP52 with my iPhone SE, iPod Tough 5G, and Acer Chromebook (so far), none of which have aptX.


To get the ~40ms latency that's advertised, both sides need aptX LL (Low Latency) actually, not just aptX.

SBC latency can be... all over the place


----------



## HungryPanda

My iems are in cases labeled and in one little flightcase my earbuds the same


----------



## Slater

vector84 said:


> To get the ~40ms latency that's advertised, both sides need aptX LL (Low Latency) actually, not just aptX.
> 
> SBC latency can be... all over the place



Well, like I said none of my sources are using aptX. And the EP52 has no detectable delay, where the KZ is ridiculously long.

KZ is fine for music. But EP52 works for music and movies/videos.

No clue what the non-aptX delay measures on the EP52. But I can't detect any with my eyes and ears watching a video. So that's good enough proof for me, regardless of what the scientific specifications say it is/should be.


----------



## kokakolia

B9Scrambler said:


> What's so shady about TechmanZ, haha? He's better than a lot of others out there, buys mostly everything he reviews (for those that care) and is about as straightforward as it gets. Mind you he could spend more time with something before reviewing it, though we're not really his target audience so I doubt his main audience would care.



He's a moocher. Every video he posts is an affiliated link.


----------



## B9Scrambler

"Gimme fuel! Gimme fire! Gimme that which I desire! Ooh! Yeah!"​


----------



## sklchan (Dec 6, 2017)

Hi all, keep reading the posts here make me wonder anyone really do hardware checking on the components used within the ZS6? I run through some checking within the online world and from what been found the ZS6 is really worth the money just from the components it used for the build.

1. Aluminium body case
2. 4 pcs of KZ 30095 BA
3. 2 pcs of NiceHCK 6mm DD
4. 2 pcs of NiceHCK 10mm DD
5. The original cable
For all these and the super crazy GB discount, I get mine for just USD19.99 with free shipping!!! 

And for me the hardware is good enough and what the important would be how serious the manufacturer do the tuning especially on those passive crossover hi/lo/band pass filter. Do read a lots ppls saying the treble gain too much, I really anxious wait for my ZS6 to arrive and do some "NORMAL" human ears testing on it... cheers 

Below the link for all those components that sales on Aliexpress:

Replacement Knowles BA - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...e-Speaker-Knowles-Earphone/1000001396804.html
6mm DD - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...DYI-Moving-Coil-Bass/1825606_32447148873.html
10mm DD - https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Speaker-Accessories/1825606_32437915048.html


----------



## vector84

sklchan said:


> 2. 4 pcs of WBFK-30095 BA by Knowles


Nope... they are clearly KZ branded BAs.  KZ certainly doesn't claim to be using any Knowles products, though some resellers might be less than honest about the situation.


----------



## sklchan

vector84 said:


> Nope... they are clearly KZ branded BAs.  KZ certainly doesn't claim to be using any Knowles products, though some resellers might be less than honest about the situation.


You sure, anyone who have an opened BA from the ZS5/ZS6? because from the ripped off snap shoot in the web clearly shown the Knowles logo on the BA and the part# 30095 which is confirmed valid part# from the supplier.


----------



## vector84

sklchan said:


> You sure, anyone who have an opened BA from the ZS5/ZS6? because from the ripped off snap shoot in the web clearly shown the Knowles logo on the BA and the part# 30095 which is confirmed valid part# from the supplier.


Most of the posts have been taken down unfortunately, but many people have opened them up and confirmed that they are KZ branded BAs.  There's probably still a few lingering pics back about 400 pages ago in this thread.

As I said, KZ does not claim to be using any Knowles products, though they do share a model number, which can be confusing - but check the KZ official store, there is no mention of Knowles anywhere, and the BAs shown are clearly KZ branded.  Chalk it up to confusion on model numbers or deceptive marketing by resellers


----------



## sklchan

vector84 said:


> Most of the posts have been taken down unfortunately, but many people have opened them up and confirmed that they are KZ branded BAs.  There's probably still a few lingering pics back about 400 pages ago in this thread.
> 
> As I said, KZ does not claim to be using any Knowles products, though they do share a model number, which can be confusing - but check the KZ official store, there is no mention of Knowles anywhere, and the BAs shown are clearly KZ branded.  Chalk it up to confusion on model numbers or deceptive marketing by resellers


I think you're correct, below the share out by someone here


----------



## Slater

sklchan said:


> I think you're correct, below the share out by someone here



Yup, KZ makes their own BAs (or has them made for them by 1 of the few mega Chinese BA manufacturers).

They aren't Knowles, nor does KZ claim them to be.

As was pointed out, most low end ChiFi IEMs that claim to use Knowles (by sellers and/or manufacturers) are lying, or else they are counterfeit Knowles which are very common. Same goes with most MUSES01 and MUSES02 op-amps - there's so many counterfeits that it's literally impossible for a seller to sell a complete amp board for $30 shipped when a genuine MUSES02 op-amp COSTS $30-$40 BY ITSELF.


----------



## Vytautas

Had seen ZS5 for 11 eur (13 usd) a week ago with a code ZS5GB

It stoped working very soon. Any more codes for ZS5 11 eur?



JayceOoi said:


> Wow... GearBest keeps doing promotion on ZS6. $22.99 with this code - ZS6KG
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## larry piencenaves

i just bought the silver cable for my zs3, and i dont hear any significant difference in sound, does this need a cable burn in or something?


----------



## FastAndClean

larry piencenaves said:


> i just bought the silver cable for my zs3, and i dont hear any significant difference in sound, does this need a cable burn in or something?


You need to talk to the cable gently every day for one hour before bed and it will open up the good stuff in the sound of your in ears


----------



## larry piencenaves

FastAndClean said:


> You need to talk to the cable gently every day for one hour before bed and it will open up the good stuff in the sound of your in ears




oh i see, so every headfiers here saying the the kz's iems benefits from silver cable is a lie? hmmm


----------



## JayceOoi

Vytautas said:


> Had seen ZS5 for 11 eur (13 usd) a week ago with a code ZS5GB
> 
> It stoped working very soon. Any more codes for ZS5 11 eur?


This code is still working for me now.
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_641227.html


----------



## nxnje

Yo guys!
I'm still here with a big doubt.
Found kz zs5 for 15$ but at the same price we have Memt x5.

I had zs3 and i found them really uncomfortable.
Do u think would the kz zs5 be unpleasant to my ear in the same way or not?
Should i go with normal fitting memt x5 or zs5 around the ear?
I don't have a portable ampli or dac, just my phone (galaxy s7 edge) so the source would be a simple smartphone.

The final question is : what should i pick?


----------



## CoiL

oyobass said:


> My favorite for live recordings is the ZS5 v1. Really amps up the live excitement and lets you feel a real sense of air in the room... at least to me and my ears.


+1

Especially enjoying Steven Wilson, Puscifer, Perfect Circle (Red Rocks) and NIN live performances which are greatly recorded and mastered. 
Aslo, greatly mastered records that have ambient sounds, sound very lifelike.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

MEMT X5 is far more comfortable simply because of how small it is.  ZS5 is a huge IEM with no rounded edges.

MEMT X5 does have a lot of cable noise though, so keep that in mind.


----------



## sklchan (Dec 7, 2017)

nxnje said:


> Yo guys!
> I'm still here with a big doubt.
> Found kz zs5 for 15$ but at the same price we have Memt x5.
> 
> ...


If you looking for comfortable fitting then never go for those big huge earphones like those KZ3/5/6 as those are meant for audio sound quality.
For me the memt x5 just a normal earbud build with metal case (can't imagine how good the single

5.5 mm Nano-type driver
will sound soo great at some reviewer site)


----------



## nxnje

SomeTechNoob said:


> MEMT X5 is far more comfortable simply because of how small it is.  ZS5 is a huge IEM with no rounded edges.
> 
> MEMT X5 does have a lot of cable noise though, so keep that in mind.



So, if u guys had to tip me a good iem in that price tag 15-18 what would u recommend me?
I love deep bass and rumbles, and the kz zs3 sounded lovely for what i listen to, but my ears get sick after one min.



sklchan said:


> If you looking for comfortable fitting then never go for those big huge earphones like those KZ3/5/6 as those are meant for audio sound quality.
> For me the memt x5 just a normal earbud build with metal case (can't imagine how good the single
> 
> 5.5 mm Nano-type driver
> will sound soo great at some reviewer site)


----------



## ivo001

Podster said:


> You know I often wonder if these sellers do just one mass shipment per month to save cost/trips. Could be one might order something the day after they ship and then wait for a full month to catch the next shipment train, I have no idea but have wondered as this has happened to me as well. Then their are the ones that sell you something and they are waiting for new stock to arrive but fail to let the buyer know this



My ZS5 is just doing a World Tour. It had reached country of destination last week, but apparently that is not my country, because somehow it has appeared in Poland now.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

sklchan said:


> If you looking for comfortable fitting then never go for those big huge earphones like those KZ3/5/6 as those are meant for audio sound quality.
> For me the memt x5 just a normal earbud build with metal case (can't imagine how good the single
> 
> 5.5 mm Nano-type driver
> will sound soo great at some reviewer site)





nxnje said:


> So, if u guys had to tip me a good iem in that price tag 15-18 what would u recommend me?
> I love deep bass and rumbles, and the kz zs3 sounded lovely for what i listen to, but my ears get sick after one min.



They actually are great in-ears.  The micro driver in the MEMT X5 packs a punch.  It's a V-shaped IEM with more emphasis bass than my ZS5 v1.  Mids are more present on the ZS5, so they are a different sound signature.  ZS5 also has that crazy instrument separation which most of you guys probably already know already.

If you love deep bass and rumbles, I would say the MEMT X5 is a good pick for you.  It rumbles even more than my ZS3 and has a bit more high end making music very fun to listen to.


----------



## nxnje

SomeTechNoob said:


> They actually are great in-ears.  The micro driver in the MEMT X5 packs a punch.  It's a V-shaped IEM with more emphasis bass than my ZS5 v1.  Mids are more present on the ZS5, so they are a different sound signature.  ZS5 also has that crazy instrument separation which most of you guys probably already know already.
> 
> If you love deep bass and rumbles, I would say the MEMT X5 is a good pick for you.  It rumbles even more than my ZS3 and has a bit more high end making music very fun to listen to.



Thank you very much for your patience!
Do u think the cable noise is so problematic or do u think it's something i can pass over in order to have a good iem as the memt x5?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

nxnje said:


> Thank you very much for your patience!
> Do u think the cable noise is so problematic or do u think it's something i can pass over in order to have a good iem as the memt x5?



Definitely don't run with these.  I was able to commute and walk just fine with the cable running underneath my jacket though, which stops the cable from flapping around in the wind.  It just depends how much you move around imo.  It's really well built, but out of all the IEMs and earbuds I think it's either the worst or second to worst when it comes to cable noise.  The cable is built really nice to a point where it likes to keep its shape a little bit too well, easily transferring up vibrations.

Generally though, I would still probably pick up the X5 since the sound quality is awesome.  I've had them in my ears for over 5 hours at a time with no hotspots.  I've done the same with the ZS5 but depending on the angle I've had uncomfortable spots on my outer ear.  The ZS3 does fit my ear like a glove though.  The MEMT X5 takes up so little space in your ear that it shouldn't bother anything though.


----------



## nxnje

I never run with earbuds, i just use them to walk while going to university and listening while studying.
At home i already have superlux hd681F so they're just something i would use when i'm out.
Think i'll probably pick it, and i'm sure gonna pick a pair of kz ate as soon as i can pick em for like 4 bucks and so on. 

Before trying the zs3 i was thinkin about wearing those kind of headphones (the type that has the cable going around the ear) would be more comfortable but i'm just reading about people having fitting issues.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Over-ear cables definitely have had less cable noise in my experience, and it makes sense.  I do still keep an eye out for some cable-down earbuds since they are much easier to put in and take out of your ears and are also much easier to store.  I carry one over-ear and one cable-down in my bag.  Long sessions get the over-ear ZS5.  Shorter sessions get the other one.  Currently bringing around the Boarseman CX98 for cable-down usage.  They are bass light, probably not what you're looking for.  But anyways, you get my point.


----------



## nxnje

SomeTechNoob said:


> Over-ear cables definitely have had less cable noise in my experience, and it makes sense.  I do still keep an eye out for some cable-down earbuds since they are much easier to put in and take out of your ears and are also much easier to store.  I carry one over-ear and one cable-down in my bag.  Long sessions get the over-ear ZS5.  Shorter sessions get the other one.  Currently bringing around the Boarseman CX98 for cable-down usage.  They are bass light, probably not what you're looking for.  But anyways, you get my point.



The problem is i listen for very long sessions, like 4-5 hours+ a day even in a row, but i still couldn't find a proper fit for zs3.

I've already tried the CX98 as i saw them on audiobudget (is it possible to mention this site?) And they sounded pretty light in the bass section, so definitely something i'm not searching for.
Anyway, i got what u said, i think i'm gonna buy a zs5 when it goes down, or maybe the new zsr to try around-ear cable.. 

Actually i'm using a pair of Xiaomi Piston fresh that i bought for like 1 euro with a coupon code and they still have a good respons in bass frequencies, but sounds a bit darker to me


----------



## vector84

larry piencenaves said:


> i just bought the silver cable for my zs3, and i dont hear any significant difference in sound, does this need a cable burn in or something?





larry piencenaves said:


> oh i see, so every headfiers here saying the the kz's iems benefits from silver cable is a lie? hmmm


I think they're more just poking fun at you for the way you asked your question. 

Anyway, how to put this delicately  ... it kind of sounds like you're expecting the cable to do too much heavy lifting. 


But my views on the matter seem to ruffle feathers on both sides of the cable fence, so maybe I should just leave it at that.


----------



## bsoplinger

ivo001 said:


> My ZS5 is just doing a World Tour…


Just think how much better it will sound with that worldy exposure to so many more types of music 

I ordered a set of Jay's from Sweden. I'm in the USA. My IEMs made a tour through Belgium, Germany and Denmark before arriving here. I'm still burning them in but I hope they haven't developed an accent?


----------



## zentro (Dec 7, 2017)

unpopular opinion:   So i recieved my kz zs6 i week ago,i like the metal build,they fit great in my ears like the zst i had(its like kz designed them for my ears lol)even though i have the silver cable i never used it,i liked the stock cable better,for tips i use spinfits or rha dual flange(the best dual imo)  as for the sound,wow. very nice soundstage,even more bassy than the zst wihout intefering with the mids,and somehow i never  experienced piercing highs whatever the song i played,they are my new daily iems and they probably be for a while,


----------



## nxnje

SomeTechNoob said:


> Over-ear cables definitely have had less cable noise in my experience, and it makes sense.  I do still keep an eye out for some cable-down earbuds since they are much easier to put in and take out of your ears and are also much easier to store.  I carry one over-ear and one cable-down in my bag.  Long sessions get the over-ear ZS5.  Shorter sessions get the other one.  Currently bringing around the Boarseman CX98 for cable-down usage.  They are bass light, probably not what you're looking for.  But anyways, you get my point.



Just one more little question

Do u think memt x5 are better than rock zircon? People said rock zircon are so good but i'm really amazed about how the memt x5 are reviewed online


----------



## bsoplinger

zentro said:


> unpopular opinion: …


I'm a bit confused. Basically you say you like them. I rather felt that on this KZ-centric thread that was the popular opinion, that they are good.


----------



## Slater

larry piencenaves said:


> oh i see, so every headfiers here saying the the kz's iems benefits from silver cable is a lie? hmmm



Compared to the stock cable, the silver upgrade cables are softer/more flexible, look better, is more comfortable, and has less microphonics. That is no lie sir.


----------



## Slater (Dec 7, 2017)

nxnje said:


> So, if u guys had to tip me a good iem in that price tag 15-18 what would u recommend me?
> I love deep bass and rumbles, and the kz zs3 sounded lovely for what i listen to, but my ears get sick after one min.



If you're willing to try a non-KZ IEM, try the UiiSii CM5. You can buy the black one for around $18 and it blows the MEMT X5, Rock Zircon, etc out of the water: https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY

Comfortable, built very well, plenty of bass, excellent sound, you can exercise with it, and it is worn behind the ear.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> Compared to the stock cable, the silver upgrade cables are softer/more flexible, look better, is more comfortable, and has less microphonics. That is no lie sir.


I think the problem is that the reason everyone (well the concensus) likes the braided silver upgrade cable has nothing to do with sound. I really like how it lies. That is its physical behavior compared to the factory cable. But perhaps the original poster was expecting a sonic upgrade?


----------



## zentro (Dec 7, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> I'm a bit confused. Basically you say you like them. I rather felt that on this KZ-centric thread that was the popular opinion, that they are good.



unpopular as that i like them as they are out of the box.most people dont like the stock cable very much,they find the shell a bit bulky ,and also find them very piercing as they do with the zs5 v2,i dont know if that issue was resolved or its was just a bad bunch that was delivered last month(s) to customers,at least that was my impression from reading the thread for the past month


----------



## Slater (Dec 7, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> I think the problem is that the reason everyone (well the concensus) likes the braided silver upgrade cable has nothing to do with sound. I really like how it lies. That is its physical behavior compared to the factory cable. But perhaps the original poster was expecting a sonic upgrade?



Yeah, that's how I read it.

No sound difference. I have seen some of the stock KZ cables having a high impedance (I think the stock ZS3 cable), and the silver upgrade cable is much lower. Impedance can affect the sound in avery very minor way (but even this is debatable by some). Perhaps this is what he is thinking of?

The bottom line is to buy the silver cable for the reasons I listed, not for a sound upgrade (because there really is none).

Perpahs a set of cable lifters would make a bigger sound difference LOL


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> If you're willing to try a non-KZ IEM, try the UiiSii CM5. You can buy the black one for around $18 and it blows the MEMT X5, Rock Zircon, etc out of the water: https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY
> 
> Comfortable, built very well, plenty of bass, excellent sound, you can exercise with it, and it is worn behind the ear.


The red ones come with a 20% discount from Amazon making them just $16


----------



## CYoung234

oyobass said:


> According to Gearbest, my order was shipped out via *Azerbaijan Air Mail*. Must have been via carrier pigeon air mail...


Mine were shipped AEL as well, on October 27, to Miami. They arrived yesterday, so I guess there is hope. The bad news for me is that my address in Miami is a freight forwarder who sends them to me in Paraguay, where I am currently living. So, I have another week to wait for them. The good news is that the freight forwarder is 100% reliable, so I will get them with no customs nonsense, pilfering, etc...


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> If you're willing to try a non-KZ IEM, try the UiiSii CM5. You can buy the black one for around $18 and it blows the MEMT X5, Rock Zircon, etc out of the water: https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY
> 
> Comfortable, built very well, plenty of bass, excellent sound, you can exercise with it, and it is worn behind the ear.



The problem is i shipped back my zs3 as they were uncomfy.. i seriously doubt that kind of form factor would be good to my ears.. that's why i wanted to pick something with down-cable..


----------



## EISENbricher

Just a heads up for Indian Head-Fiers.

Glad that I discovered about Gearbest recently. AliExpress shipping sucks for India (Main culprit is India Post). Opt for Priority line on Gearbest which costs almost nothing, add shipping insurance and get the parcels delivered super fast (usual time for me was 6-10 days) via Gati Courier. Also faced no custom charges via this route in my 11 orders experience on Gearbest. Used to get charged unpredictably with AliExpress standard shipping. Paid 45% duty on my Topping NX1 and >200% duty on a cheapo usb fan that I had ordered.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> The red ones come with a 20% discount from Amazon making them just $16



That's a steal for the price.


----------



## Slater (Dec 7, 2017)

nxnje said:


> The problem is i shipped back my zs3 as they were uncomfy.. i seriously doubt that kind of form factor would be good to my ears.. that's why i wanted to pick something with down-cable..



You don't know until you try.

I have 2 dozen behind-the-ear IEMs, and they all fit differently. The CM5 is one of the most comfortable and ergonomic fitting of my behind-the-ear collection.

ZS3 can be ill-fitting in some people. Don't judge the comfort and fit of all behind-the-ear IEMs on one single behind-the-ear IEM. That is like saying "The seats in the 2017 Honda Civic weren't comfortable, so I will purchase a motorcycle because the seats in every car must be uncomfortable like the seats in the Civic".


----------



## oyobass

larry piencenaves said:


> oh i see, so every headfiers here saying the the kz's iems benefits from silver cable is a lie? hmmm


The only benefit I have heard is that the silver cable is much less prone to the rumble physically caused by the stiff stock cables. 
That makes the small amount of money they cost totally worth it.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Compared to the stock cable, the silver upgrade cables are softer/more flexible, look better, is more comfortable, and has less microphonics. That is no lie sir.



And even more so when one removes that dang ear wire






You know if that CM5 came in bright yellow it would be like having a bunch of Bananas in you ears I doubt there is any difference in the braided cable and stock but if they look better they must sound better Ask anyone who puts a $500 cable on a $1500 ciem Oh no he deent


----------



## maxxevv

I have the KZ upgrade cable on both my ZS5v2 and ZS6, I haven't been able to hear any perceived sound signature differences. Granted they are very budget cables, so perhaps the differences are not observable. 

But they are a great upgrade in terms of microphonics and comfort. Not forgetting they are more pliable so generally feel more comfortable when worn and the bonus of being easier to coil nicely when put into the carrying pouch. Which can be a pain with the stock cables. 

For those alone, considering how little they cost, they are definitely worth that extra few dollars. ( Gearbest was doing a US$2.99 flash sale yesterday, grabbed one for a friend when I saw it.)


----------



## larry piencenaves

Slater said:


> Compared to the stock cable, the silver upgrade cables are softer/more flexible, look better, is more comfortable, and has less microphonics. That is no lie sir.




i know that is a physical upgrade, what i want or expected is a sound upgrade, reviews on the zs3 says they heard difference in sound quality thats why i tried them, and i didnt hear any difference at all, i even burned them for hrs. oh well,


----------



## FastAndClean

Try to burn them with fire, after that the sound will be warm


----------



## larry piencenaves

FastAndClean said:


> Try to burn them with fire, after that the sound will be warm





you're a funny guy kek


----------



## oyobass

larry piencenaves said:


> i know that is a physical upgrade, what i want or expected is a sound upgrade, reviews on the zs3 says they heard difference in sound quality thats why i tried them, and i didnt hear any difference at all, i even burned them for hrs. oh well,


KZ is willing to provide the upgrade cable snake oil for hundreds less than some companies. That should count for something...
The upgrade cable is a must-have in my book, just for the ergonomic and microphonics-reduction factors. The only way they would improve the sound is if the factory cable was defective.


----------



## alota

why snake oil? i bought two kz cables: one all white and the other brown. 5 and 7€. the price is honest


----------



## ivo001 (Dec 7, 2017)

alota said:


> why snake oil?


Because Marshall Mode


----------



## alota

ivo001 said:


> Be
> 
> Cause Marshall Mode


???


----------



## oyobass

nxnje said:


> The problem is i shipped back my zs3 as they were uncomfy.. i seriously doubt that kind of form factor would be good to my ears.. that's why i wanted to pick something with down-cable..


I have found the ZS3 to be uncomfortable to wear as well. I filed and polished the second protrusion, (the one that makes them look "custom"), as well as filing the mismatched levels of the shell even in between the nozzle and protrusion, where the sharp edge was causing discomfort.

I also have to turn the foams around the right way, even with the associated fit problems that causes me, in order to keep all of that extra structure from pressing against my ear.

The fit and finish is what you would expect from an $8 IEM. The sound is far above that price. 

I can still use them as stage monitors in extremely loud situations for short durations, since the isolation is so good.

Most likely they'll be cannibalized for parts to fix a broken pair of UEs...


----------



## B9Scrambler (Dec 7, 2017)

Was finding the ZS6 sibilant with female vocals on crappy recordings (most of my long dnb mixes unfortunately) and decided to toss some HiFiMan RE400 filters on top of the stock metal grills to see what happened. Helps a lot actually. Could be an easily reversed mod for those that want to try something simple and non-destructive. Doesn't make a massive difference, but does enough to smooth out the edges.

The HiFiMan filters are 15 bucks and come with a number of tips so I'm sure there are more affordable options out there.

*Edit: pretty sure Slater posted something similar a while back.*


----------



## Strat Rider

nxnje said:


> Yo guys!
> I'm still here with a big doubt.
> Found kz zs5 for 15$ but at the same price we have Memt x5.
> 
> ...


I rather like the memt x5, the sound from the small driver was surprising at first, especially the quanity and quality of the bass.

I have found for myself, i can wear these over ear , although with Left driver in right ear, Right in left, and eliminate the cable noise.

I use these with my note 5 and a enjoy them a bunch.


----------



## Strat Rider (Dec 7, 2017)

nxnje said:


> Just one more little question
> 
> Do u think memt x5 are better than rock zircon? People said rock zircon are so good but i'm really amazed about how the memt x5 are reviewed online


I have both, and enjoy the x5's a little more, i listen to blues, rock, southern rock, and the signature with the right tips falls right into my happy place.

But i always enjoy my KZ's the best!


----------



## Strat Rider

Podster said:


> And even more so when one removes that dang ear wire
> 
> 
> 
> You know if that CM5 came in bright yellow it would be like having a bunch of Bananas in you ears I doubt there is any difference in the braided cable and stock but if they look better they must sound better Ask anyone who puts a $500 cable on a $1500 ciem Oh no he deent


I use the silver cable, because it doesn't have a remote, and mic.


----------



## bsoplinger

B9Scrambler said:


> …decided to toss some HiFiMan RE400 filters on top of the stock metal grills…
> *Edit: pretty sure Slater posted something similar a while back.*


Using those filters would be a lot like using the thin foam from earbud covers that @Slater suggested. So it isn't too much of a surprise that you got similar results.

Its nice to see that there are simple cheap mods to try. I just picked up the HiFiMan RE-600 which come with similar (identical?) filters. Although I like the sound of my ZS5 V2 and ZS6 as they are now in stock condition, perhaps I'll give them a try using these filters just to see. I would have tried the earbud foam if I had earbud covers but didn't.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Not sure what everyone else does, but I put a small square of that "blue" painters tape on the outside of each case, and write the IEM on the tape with sharpie (as well as any specific information, such as "FF Mod ATE" on 1, "Stock ATR" on another, "Modded ZS6" on another, etc).
> 
> The "blue" tape sticks well to all of the different cases I have (even the KZ "woven fabric" case), and it comes off cleanly if ever needed.


I'm all about that blue tape and a sharpie.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 7, 2017)

Slater said:


> You don't know until you try.
> 
> I have 2 dozen behind-the-ear IEMs, and they all fit differently. The CM5 is one of the most comfortable and ergonomic fitting of my behind-the-ear collection.
> 
> ZS3 can be ill-fitting in some people. Don't judge the comfort and fit of all behind-the-ear IEMs on one single behind-the-ear IEM. That is like saying "The seats in the 2017 Honda Civic weren't comfortable, so I will purchase a motorcycle because the seats in every car must be uncomfortable like the seats in the Civic".


you're crazy the seats in the '17 civic are awesome! 
sorry...too much time on the boards has me feeling contrarian


----------



## HungryPanda

Mine have to be a bit neater:


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> I filed and polished the second protrusion, (the one that makes them look "custom"), as well as filing the mismatched levels of the shell even in between the nozzle and protrusion, where the sharp edge was causing discomfort.



Photos?


----------



## Strat Rider

I just received my ZS6 to replace my ZS5 v1, that is missing one side._(DOH !!  yes I lost one)_ burned them in slightly by letting my indoor cat  listen to nature sounds . 
After a 4 hour night of  listening to varied music types I decided to listen to some Steely Dan, and connected my CMOY BB amp, while I love the signature of the Zs6 with New Bee Foams, I am not in favor of carrying my Altoids amp everywhere.  Does anyone have experience, advice, reccomendations or (Ridicule for losing one earpiece) for a portable amp, worthy of driving these iem's?
I believe it was @B9Scrambler that reviewed the recent offering from Walnut which seems to be worth a listen.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I removed the memory wire from my ZS3 following @Slater instructions....but there was no string cheese inside! Do you think I got counterfeits, or is this just a newer version sans string cheese?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Strat Rider said:


> I just received my ZS6 to replace my ZS5 v1, that is missing one side._(DOH !!  yes I lost one)_ burned them in slightly by letting my indoor cat  listen to nature sounds .
> After a 4 hour night of  listening to varied music types I decided to listen to some Steely Dan, and connected my CMOY BB amp, while I love the signature of the Zs6 with New Bee Foams, I am not in favor of carrying my Altoids amp everywhere.  Does anyone have experience, advice, reccomendations or (Ridicule for losing one earpiece) for a portable amp, worthy of driving these iem's?
> I believe it was @B9Scrambler that reviewed the recent offering from Walnut which seems to be worth a listen.


I have a Fiio A3 and it powers my IEMs nicely. I have the ZS5 and it sounds great with it, but the one that really seems to like the pairing is my ES3...it really cleans up the sound. I haven't done enough a/b to determine exactly how it sounds better other than a general impression of being smoother, richer, darker background etc.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Strat Rider said:


> I just received my ZS6 to replace my ZS5 v1, that is missing one side._(DOH !!  yes I lost one)_ burned them in slightly by letting my indoor cat  listen to nature sounds .
> After a 4 hour night of  listening to varied music types I decided to listen to some Steely Dan, and connected my CMOY BB amp, while I love the signature of the Zs6 with New Bee Foams, I am not in favor of carrying my Altoids amp everywhere.  Does anyone have experience, advice, reccomendations or (Ridicule for losing one earpiece) for a portable amp, worthy of driving these iem's?
> I believe it was @B9Scrambler that reviewed the recent offering from Walnut which seems to be worth a listen.



The Walnut F1 has gobs of power, more than enough for anything KZ sells, and despite it's brighter signature actually seems to pair pretty well with the ZS6. It's a beefy device though so you wouldn't be saving much space at all moving from the Altoids can to it. Still for 25 bucks or whatever you can find it for it's a solid choice.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Photos?


Photos? Who do you think I am, some kind of @Slater or something? 

I'll see what I can do...


----------



## HungryPanda

I use a Topping NX5 when out and about


----------



## Mellowship

Strat Rider said:


> I just received my ZS6 to replace my ZS5 v1, that is missing one side._(DOH !!  yes I lost one)_ burned them in slightly by letting my indoor cat  listen to nature sounds .
> After a 4 hour night of  listening to varied music types I decided to listen to some Steely Dan, and connected my CMOY BB amp, while I love the signature of the Zs6 with New Bee Foams, I am not in favor of carrying my Altoids amp everywhere.  Does anyone have experience, advice, reccomendations or (Ridicule for losing one earpiece) for a portable amp, worthy of driving these iem's?
> I believe it was @B9Scrambler that reviewed the recent offering from Walnut which seems to be worth a listen.


Topping NX1, NX2... 
The Cmoy is a great amp, but a little bulky, and I guess the Walnut is not much smaller (but might be lighter!).


----------



## eaglesgift

B9Scrambler said:


> The Walnut F1 has gobs of power, more than enough for anything KZ sells, and despite it's brighter signature actually seems to pair pretty well with the ZS6. It's a beefy device though so you wouldn't be saving much space at all moving from the Altoids can to it. Still for 25 bucks or whatever you can find it for it's a solid choice.


Doesn't it have a high output impedance though?


----------



## Strat Rider

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I have a Fiio A3 and it powers my IEMs nicely. I have the ZS5 and it sounds great with it, but the one that really seems to like the pairing is my ES3...it really cleans up the sound. I haven't done enough a/b to determine exactly how it sounds better other than a general impression of being smoother, richer, darker background etc.


Thanks for that thought, i have a pair of ES3 on the way


----------



## B9Scrambler

eaglesgift said:


> Doesn't it have a high output impedance though?



It sure does; https://www.head-fi.org/threads/walnut-f1.858439/

That said, I haven't noticed any distortion with the ZS6 nor does it hiss when plugged in. Heck, even the ClarityOne EB110 which is notorious for hissing with a source mis-match was mostly silent though the F1.


----------



## Mellowship

Just giving another chance to the ZS3... Finally they are starting to sound right. But they need juice. Lots of...


----------



## Strat Rider

eaglesgift said:


> Doesn't it have a high output impedance though?


Good point, I'll have to look at that. The Cmoy is good,  i originally bought it for my philips x2 over ears, but it really brought out the mids of the zs6 without brightening the highs.
@Mellowship, I admit, I never really looked into the Toppings, I will now.
@B9Scrambler, i didn't realise the walnut was that size.
@Cruelhand Luke, the Fiio seems like a good match.


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Just giving another chance to the ZS3... Finally they are starting to sound right. But they need juice. Lots of...



So many people rush to judgments on all sorts of HPs/EPs without amping them. It can really transform some gear.


----------



## nkramer

Slater said:


> So many people rush to judgments on all sorts of HPs/EPs without amping them. It can really transform some gear.



absolutely, totally agree. even though most of them don't "require" an amp, but using one sure can change their characteristics.


----------



## Mellowship

Strat Rider said:


> Good point, I'll have to look at that. The Cmoy is good,  i originally bought it for my philips x2 over ears, but it really brought out the mids of the zs6 without brightening the highs.
> @Mellowship, I admit, I never really looked into the Toppings, I will now.
> @B9Scrambler, i didn't realise the walnut was that size.
> @Cruelhand Luke, the Fiio seems like a good match.


Toppings are a bang for the buck. Some users report EMI and RFI problems though. 
I myself have the NX2 (1st version), and the amp section is fabulous. The DAC is jst OK, it does the job. No problems with interference. And the battery lasts a lifetime.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> So many people rush to judgments on all sorts of HPs/EPs without amping them. It can really transform some gear.


In my case it went from "what a narrow soundstage" to "there's some width and depth here... hum...", and from "it's all about that bass" from "there are a couple more frequencies here, besides the rumble... hum...".


----------



## Strat Rider

I agree about the amping changing sound characteristics. 
I have to say, that Walnut F1 read was interesting.

OFF Topic, OMG, I just looked at my avatar and realized that i joined Head-Fi in 2014, and just started posting to any thread (this one) a week or so ago.
Thank you to the KZ community for showing me the way of the KZ!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Strat Rider said:


> OFF Topic, OMG, I just looked at my avatar and realized that i joined Head-Fi in 2014, and just started posting to any thread (this one) a week or so ago.
> Thank you to the KZ community for showing me the way of the KZ!


I did a similar thing, I had an account for like three years and only posted once or twice; I just read a TON...then for some reason when I finally did want to post I couldn't log into that account, so I started this new one. It's funny, once I opened my mouth I kind of expected there to be a little bit of "well what do YOU know you've only been on headfi a few months" type of pushback. No such thing...unless the mods were running out ahead of me and erasing the bad comments so I never saw the criticisms...
back on topic! 
I agree about amping helps, sometimes enormously, my issue is when something like my ZS3 which I had intended as my 'heavy errands' IEM. (As in put them in, forget about them and go get a bunch of stuff done - not 'critical listening'.) But, compared to my other stuff I am just not liking them nearly as much...it's great that they sound good out of a desktop amp, but that kinda defeats the purpose, right?


----------



## Mellowship

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I did a similar thing, I had an account for like three years and only posted once or twice; I just read a TON...then for some reason when I finally did want to post I couldn't log into that account, so I started this new one. It's funny, once I opened my mouth I kind of expected there to be a little bit of "well what do YOU know you've only been on headfi a few months" type of pushback. No such thing...unless the mods were running out ahead of me and erasing the bad comments so I never saw the criticisms...
> back on topic!
> I agree about amping helps, sometimes enormously, my issue is when something like my ZS3 which I had intended as my 'heavy errands' IEM. (As in put them in, forget about them and go get a bunch of stuff done - not 'critical listening'.) But, compared to my other stuff I am just not liking them nearly as much...it's great that they sound good out of a desktop amp, but that kinda defeats the purpose, right?


You're absolutely right! IEMs should sound their best on portable gear. And good ones do! 
My Shure SE215 pairs beautifully with the shittiest phone or the smallest DAP, but sounds thin and tiny with my desktop amp. They are intended to be personal stage monitors for live gigs. Same thing for other IEMs I own, Soundmagic, Sony, etc... which are more mass-market products.
But the KZs are neither designed for the masses or for the professional public, are they? KZ is a strange new world...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Mellowship said:


> You're absolutely right! IEMs should sound their best on portable gear. And good ones do!
> My Shure SE215 pairs beautifully with the ****tiest phone or the smallest DAP, but sounds thin and tiny with my desktop amp. They are intended to be personal stage monitors for live gigs. Same thing for other IEMs I own, Soundmagic, Sony, etc... which are more mass-market products.
> But the KZs are neither designed for the masses or for the professional public, are they? KZ is a strange new world...


I got into KZs because I like value and good SQ, but almost just as much a part of the allure is the fact that I can mess around with them - take them apart and modify them and learn about BA drivers. Where else am I going to get an IEM with 4 drivers per ear and not break the bank?


----------



## Mellowship

Here are circa 90 USD in kz stuff. 


They all sound differently, they're all good, I end up using them more than my expensive ones. If one dies, I just go grab another. No worries. Just fun.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Mellowship said:


> Here are circa 90 USD in kz stuff.
> 
> 
> They all sound differently, they're all good, I end up using them more than my expensive ones. If one dies, I just go grab another. No worries. Just fun.


You fool, you could have had 2 Marshal Modes for that amount! You sir, clearly have a problem...
I only have 4 KZs and am therefore perfectly fine.


----------



## Mellowship

Cruelhand Luke said:


> You fool, you could have had 2 Marshal Modes for that amount! You sir, clearly have a problem...
> I only have 4 KZs and am therefore perfectly fine.


Ahahahahah!
Shame on me! 
Maybe I can marshalmode my way out of the KZ disease!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Mellowship said:


> Ahahahahah!
> Shame on me!
> Maybe I can marshalmode my way out of the KZ disease!


You would just be trading bad habits...stick with the ones you have already, since you don't know that you aren't enjoying them.


----------



## Viber (Dec 7, 2017)

So i did a bit of testing in Gaming\TV actions scenes today with some KZ models and here are my results:




I did this for fun and i would love to hear other people's opinions on this.
I would say the imaging is "flavored" differently in each of them. ZS6 is more of a classic left-right while the ATR and the ZS3 are more "surround sound" oriented.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

larry piencenaves said:


> oh i see, so every headfiers here saying the the kz's iems benefits from silver cable is a lie? hmmm



People also claimed they could hear a difference using the Synergistic Research HOT.


----------



## Willber (Dec 7, 2017)

Viber said:


> So i did a bit of testing in Gaming\TV actions scenes today with some KZ models and here are my results:
> 
> 
> I did this for fun and i would love to hear other people's opinions on this.
> I would say the imaging is "flavored" differently in each of them. ZS6 is more of a classic left-right while the ATR and the ZS3 are more "surround sound" oriented.


Good to see your performance scale "goes up to 11"!


----------



## Mellowship

Viber said:


> So i did a bit of testing in Gaming\TV actions scenes today with some KZ models and here are my results:
> 
> 
> I did this for fun and i would love to hear other people's opinions on this.
> I would say the imaging is "flavored" differently in each of them. ZS6 is more of a classic left-right while the ATR and the ZS3 are more "surround sound" oriented.


Regarding the imaging, I can't dissociate the timbric dullness of the ATR from its overall sonic presentation. To me, they just sound unnatural and I can't ear the true nature of the instruments or human voices. This quality (or lack of) takes away any tridimensional presentation. The ZS3 has a somewhat better soundstage, but in my opinion, it clearly depends on the source. I believe they need lots of power to open up and become more "airy". Directly from the smartphone, computer or DAP, they don't sound very spacious. I don't own the ZS6, and I don't want to buy one (yet). But the ZS5 is similar, and it has lots of spacial definition, not only left/right or channel separation, but some interesting imaging that doesn't require lots of brainwork to translate. The ZSE has also a good imaging due to their upper-midrange being so energetic, but they get congested really bad with more complex music. ZSE are for jazz trios or acoustic folk. Rock kills them...


----------



## Viber

Willber said:


> Good to see your performance scale "goes up to 11"!



lol, couldn't change the range to 10 on the stupid thing.
The range is 1-10.


----------



## Willber

Good to see your performance scale "goes up to 11"! 


Viber said:


> So i did a bit of testing in Gaming\TV actions scenes today with some KZ models and here are my results:
> 
> 
> I did this for fun and i would love to hear other people's opinions on this.
> I would say the imaging is "flavored" differently in each of them. ZS6 is more of a classic left-right while the ATR and the ZS3 are more "surround sound" oriented.





Viber said:


> lol, couldn't change the range to 10 on the stupid thing.
> The range is 1-10.


I guessed that, but I hope you recognised the Spinal Tap quote, I don't get many chances to use it.


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Here are circa 90 USD in kz stuff.
> 
> 
> They all sound differently, they're all good, I end up using them more than my expensive ones. If one dies, I just go grab another. No worries. Just fun.





Cruelhand Luke said:


> You fool, you could have had 2 Marshal Modes for that amount! You sir, clearly have a problem...
> I only have 4 KZs and am therefore perfectly fine.



I don't even want to show my IEM collection...it's borderline embarrassing LOL


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I don't even want to show my IEM collection...it's borderline embarrassing LOL



Now you must show us!  Even the forgotten drawer!


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Now you must show us!  Even the forgotten drawer!



Well, the drawer of forgotten gear has been packed in a rubbermaid tub and moved to storage a few weeks ago.

So I'll have to wait until I go there in a week or 2 and get all of those IEMs out and snap a pic. Then take a another pic of the IEMs in regular rotation.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Well, the drawer of forgotten gear has been packed in a rubbermaid tub and moved to storage a few weeks ago.
> 
> So I'll have to wait until I go there in a week or 2 and get all of those IEMs out and snap a pic. Then take a another pic of the IEMs in regular rotation.



We will be waiting...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> I don't even want to show my IEM collection...it's borderline embarrassing LOL


We didn't want it to be like this...but, sigh we think you might have a problem with hoarding IEMs? This whole thread has just been a ruse, an online intervention, to talk to you about it buddy.


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> We didn't want it to be like this...but, sigh we think you might have a problem with hoarding IEMs? This whole thread has just been a ruse, an online intervention, to talk to you about it buddy.



Me? Hoarder? Nah, it's not like I didn't just stock up on (10) of the same IEM a few weeks ago because they were too good of a deal to pass up. That must have been some other guy LOL


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Me? Hoarder? Nah, it's not like I didn't just stock up on (10) of the same IEM a few weeks ago because they were too good of a deal to pass up. That must have been some other guy LOL



I know the answer to that one,lol.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

oyobass said:


> KZ is willing to provide the upgrade cable snake oil for hundreds less than some companies. That should count for something...
> The upgrade cable is a must-have in my book, just for the ergonomic and microphonics-reduction factors. The only way they would improve the sound is if the factory cable was defective.



TBH I bought it because it looks the tits. I don't even care about the sound difference. They look and feel like a high-end set now.


----------



## Slater

SomeGuyDude said:


> TBH I bought it because it looks the tits. I don't even care about the sound difference. They look and feel like a high-end set now.



Amen to that. Green ZS6 with silver tri-braid cable, black with gold cable, red with bronze cable...Mmmmm smooth like buttah


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> Amen to that. Green ZS6 with silver tri-braid cable, black with gold cable, red with bronze cable...Mmmmm smooth like buttah



I know aesthetics don't matter to a lot here, but they do to me. I was sold on the Z6 half because of the aluminum housing as opposed to the cheap plastic. They feel like "real" headphones. The upgrade cable is just a bit bucket of awwwwyeah. If someone wasn't familiar with headphone brands you could probably fool them into thinking you had a pair of seriously expensive monitors.


----------



## oyobass (Dec 7, 2017)

oyobass said:


> Photos? Who do you think I am, some kind of @Slater or something?
> 
> I'll see what I can do...


I'm definitely no Slater. Hack photos of a hack mod here.
Makes the phones a little more tolerable to wear. I might clean up my hacking later, or just tear into them for parts.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

SomeGuyDude said:


> I know aesthetics don't matter to a lot here, but they do to me. I was sold on the Z6 half because of the aluminum housing as opposed to the cheap plastic. They feel like "real" headphones. The upgrade cable is just a bit bucket of awwwwyeah. If someone wasn't familiar with headphone brands you could probably fool them into thinking you had a pair of seriously expensive monitors.


I think it's pretty obvious I am into the looks as well as the sound if you look at the glam shots of my gear I routinely post in various threads.


----------



## Willber

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I think it's pretty obvious I am into the looks as well as the sound if you look at the glam shots of my gear I routinely post in various threads.


Surely that's a Campfire promotional shot?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Willber said:


> Surely that's a Campfire promotional shot?


I'm still waiting for their call...


----------



## maxxevv

Will these do ... ??


----------



## themindfreak

larry piencenaves said:


> i know that is a physical upgrade, what i want or expected is a sound upgrade, reviews on the zs3 says they heard difference in sound quality thats why i tried them, and i didnt hear any difference at all, i even burned them for hrs. oh well,


Some people here claim to hear a difference. Personally I didnt hear a difference as well. I used to have 2 silver cables for ZS3 and ZS5 and now I miss them alot


----------



## Kerkyboi

So I just got a bluetooth upgrade cable for my KZ ZST....... sounds pretty good paired with my s8 using aptx!


----------



## Slater

themindfreak said:


> Some people here claim to hear a difference. Personally I didnt hear a difference as well. I used to have 2 silver cables for ZS3 and ZS5 and now I miss them alot



What happened to them?


----------



## Slater

Kerkyboi said:


> So I just got a bluetooth upgrade cable for my KZ ZST....... sounds pretty good paired with my s8 using aptx!



Yeah, the ZST is a good pairing with the bluetooth cable.

Does the KZ bluetooth cable do aptX?


----------



## CoiL

oyobass said:


> I'm definitely no Slater. Hack photos of a hack mod here.
> Makes the phones a little more tolerable to wear. I might clean up my hacking later, or just tear into them for parts.


You must have got poor QC unit, it seems so. No fit issues with my ZS3 - actually they are best fit IEM I have ever had, fits like CIEM molded for my ears.

Btw, fast crappy shot of my ZS3 mod progress:





Lot of fine tuning and testing still going on...


----------



## oyobass

CoiL said:


> You must have got poor QC unit, it seems so. No fit issues with my ZS3 - actually they are best fit IEM I have ever had, fits like CIEM molded for my ears.
> 
> Btw, fast crappy shot of my ZS3 mod progress:
> 
> ...


Mine sound really good, it's just that the general shape presses against my ears in several places hard enough to cause discomfort. Oh well.


----------



## Kerkyboi

Slater said:


> Yeah, the ZST is a good pairing with the bluetooth cable.
> 
> Does the KZ bluetooth cable do aptX?


Yeah glad I chose my ZST for the bluetooth upgrade rather than my ZS3. It's more well rounded for me.

if the paper aint lying it does aptX as long as your source does too.

But honestly, I felt a whole new life on my ZST after switching the cables. I feel like the sound becomes more full.


----------



## j0p3Y

j0p3Y said:


> mmkay, what's wrong with that store then?


Damn, I bought an upgraded cable, specifically for the ZS6, at this shop we don't mention the name of 
They did send me the cable that's not for the ZS6 but for the ZS3. Let's see what solution they provide...


----------



## TheVortex (Dec 8, 2017)

j0p3Y said:


> Damn, I bought an upgraded cable, specifically for the ZS6, at this shop we don't mention the name of
> They did send me the cable that's not for the ZS6 but for the ZS3. Let's see what solution they provide...



Isn't it the same? As you can use the same cable for the ZS3, ZS5 and ZS6.


----------



## mbwilson111

oyobass said:


> Mine sound really good, it's just that the general shape presses against my ears in several places hard enough to cause discomfort. Oh well.



That was how I felt about my ZS3 and is why I traded them to my husband for something else that fits me better.

However, I do find the ZS6 comfortable.  I have never tried a ZS5.  I normally don't like weariing the cable over the ear as it gets tangled in my hair, making it difficult to remove but i can deal with the ZS6 cable better than that of the ZS3 for some reason.  The one on the ZS3 sticks out weirdly where it connects.
I also am able to deal with the over ear cable of my UiiSii CM5 and the sound is worth the effort.  I had to put Starlines on those.  I also have  kept the stock Starlines on my ZS6.

In general though, I prefer the IEMs that go straight in and are worn cable down.


----------



## kokakolia

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I got into KZs because I like value and good SQ, but almost just as much a part of the allure is the fact that I can mess around with them - take them apart and modify them and learn about BA drivers. Where else am I going to get an IEM with 4 drivers per ear and not break the bank?



I spat my coffee reading this. Well, "sound quality" and "value" are subjective, right!?


----------



## B9Scrambler

kokakolia said:


> I spat my coffee reading this. *Well, "sound quality" and "value" are subjective, right!?*



They most definitely are.


----------



## oyobass

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I think it's pretty obvious I am into the looks as well as the sound if you look at the glam shots of my gear I routinely post in various threads.



Great minds think alike, (and mine too...)


----------



## groucho69

Willber said:


> Good to see your performance scale "goes up to 11"!


----------



## groucho69

Cruelhand Luke said:


> We didn't want it to be like this...but, sigh we think you might have a problem with hoarding IEMs? This whole thread has just been a ruse, an online intervention, to talk to you about it buddy.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


>



I think he probably has three or four times that  many...


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Well, the drawer of forgotten gear has been packed in a rubbermaid tub and moved to storage a few weeks ago.


 
I just now reallized what this means.  You have a drawer ready for lots and lots of new stuff.


----------



## oyobass

kokakolia said:


> I spat my coffee reading this. Well, "sound quality" and "value" are subjective, right!?


Hope you didn't spit your coffee on anything expensive.

<Soapbox mode: on>
Reminds me of a story my dad once told me...

Two guys were sitting in a bar, discussing who had the better watch. The guy with the Rolex says: "mine is accurate within a second a month."  Timex Guy says: "Mine too" Rolex Guy: "Mine is waterproof." Timex Guy, "This one too" This went on for a while, until Timex Guy says: "Bet you $500 I can do something with my watch you can't do with yours!" Rolex Guy: I'll take that bet!"

Timex Guy puts his watch on the bar, pulls out a hammer and smashes the watch to bits, then hands the hammer to Rolex Guy. Needless to say, Timex guy goes home with a broken watch and $500 in his pocket.

Is a Timex the same quality as a Rolex? No way. Will a Timex tell time well enough for daily use by people who can't see putting a sizeable chunk of cash into an accessory? You bet!
<Soapbox mode: off>


----------



## ivo001

Finally received my first KZ. Strangely my ZST arrived before my ZS5.
But I just cant get the pins in the earphones!
Have tried for 10 mins. But the supplied cable just wont go in. Is their a special way? I did align the circle side on the plug and socket.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

ivo001 said:


> Finally received my first KZ. Strangely my ZST arrived before my ZS5.
> But I just cant get the pins in the earphones!
> Have tried for 10 mins. But the supplied cable just wont go in. Is their a special way? I did align the circle side on the plug and socket.


I had the same experience with all of mine, you just have to keep trying gentle firm pressure, it will go in eventually.


----------



## oyobass

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I had the same experience with all of mine, you just have to keep trying gentle firm pressure, it will go in eventually.


Me too, Just when you think it is about to break or bend is when the thing finally works.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 8, 2017)

oyobass said:


> Hope you didn't spit your coffee on anything expensive.
> 
> <Soapbox mode: on>
> Reminds me of a story my dad once told me...
> ...


Cool analogy, of course the person it's directed at would tell you that the Timex is a horrible watch to begin with and it itches their wrist and the holes aren't spaced on the band the way they like it and you should get a Seiko and ....etc.
Did y'all know when you set someone to 'ignore' and another person quotes one of their asinine posts you don't see the quote, so it looks like the person responding to the troll is just saying weird non-sequiturs?


----------



## mbwilson111

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Cool analogy, of course the person it's directed it would tell you that the Timex is a horrible watch to begin with and it itches their wrist and the holes aren't spaced on the band the way they like it and you should get a Seiko and ....etc.
> Did y'all know when you set someone to 'ignore' and another person quotes one of their asinine posts you don't see the quote, so it looks like the person responding to the troll is just saying weird non-sequiturs?



I personally do not have anyone on ignore but I have wondered about that.  That would be strange to read.  I had assumed that the quote would be visible.


----------



## oyobass

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Cool analogy, of course the person it's directed it would tell you that the Timex is a horrible watch to begin with and it itches their wrist and the holes aren't spaced on the band the way they like it and you should get a Seiko and ....etc.
> Did y'all know when you set someone to 'ignore' and another person quotes one of their asinine posts you don't see the quote, so it looks like the person responding to the troll is just saying weird non-sequiturs?


I love weird non-sequiturs!

I didn't know that, since I don't block people. 

Troll lives matter.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

mbwilson111 said:


> I personally do not have anyone on ignore but I have wondered about that.  That would be strange to read.  I had assumed that the quote would be visible.


I had the same assumption based off of a forum I was on years ago that had a lot of really obnoxious trolls, you'd ignore them and then somebody would quote them so you saw their vomitus anyway...I don't usually ignore people, however I also am not good at NOT responding and mocking people that insist on being a nuisance. Another member pm'd me and basically said please ignore this person so that the thread doesn't get locked...and yet here I am...damn.


----------



## Willber

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I had the same assumption based off of a forum I was on years ago that had a lot of really obnoxious trolls, you'd ignore them and then somebody would quote them so you saw their vomitus anyway...I don't usually ignore people, however I also am not good at NOT responding and mocking people that insist on being a nuisance. Another member pm'd me and basically said please ignore this person so that the thread doesn't get locked...and yet here I am...damn.


It's a shame there aren't other threads on head-fi more suited to their preferences...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

groucho69 said:


>


My amp goes to 13 yo!


----------



## ivo001

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I had the same experience with all of mine, you just have to keep trying gentle firm pressure, it will go in eventually.


Im pushing as hard as I can, and it either ends up with the earphone shooting out of my hand, or my thumb hurting from the pressing.


----------



## kokakolia

oyobass said:


> Hope you didn't spit your coffee on anything expensive.
> 
> <Soapbox mode: on>
> Reminds me of a story my dad once told me...
> ...



That is such a bad analogy though! Mechanical watches make no sense! They're way more expensive than quartz watches and less accurate. You also have to spend hundreds of dollars to service them, and it only gets dumber and more expensive with "in house movements". I don't think much of watch enthusiasts. They spend more money for over-engineered and under-performing pieces of jewelry. 

I'd get the Timex watch and spend another $30 for a nice leather strap over a dumb Rolex that looks boring (they all look the same) and requires expensive servicing every ~6 years. 

This example just doesn't relate to KZ at all. Sure, they make the cheapest 4 driver earphones in the market. But that just sounds good on paper. The reality is a different story. 

Further, there are so many alternatives under $50 that offer way better sound quality and build quality. And I don't believe that it's a huge sum of money to spend on earphones. But yeah, go ahead and find out how cheap you can go with KZ. They cut so many corners and the earphones are badly EQed. Enjoy your nasty boosted treble and hollow mids. But please, for the love of good sound, stop praising these cheap earphones like they're the cat's pajamas! Because they're not


----------



## nkramer

nah, better than cat's pajamas....... DOG PAJAMAS!


----------



## Makahl

ivo001 said:


> Im pushing as hard as I can, and it either ends up with the earphone shooting out of my hand, or my thumb hurting from the pressing.




I got the ZST some days ago (it's my first KZ too!) and I was struggling to fit the cable for about 5 minutes. Patience is the key... You can also check if the pins aren't a bit crooked I needed to fix my right-side because of that.


----------



## ivo001 (Dec 8, 2017)

Makahl said:


> I got the ZST some days ago (it's my first KZ too!) and I was struggling to fit the cable for about 5 minutes. Patience is the key... You can also check if the pins aren't a bit crooked I needed to fix my right-side because of that.


After about 30 mins I managed to get 1 side in..
Think im giving up for tonight, my finger hurst like hell

Edit: Woohoo finally got it


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> After about 30 mins I managed to get 1 side in..
> Think im giving up for tonight, my finger hurst like hell
> 
> Edit: Woohoo finally got it



Glad you finally got it. At least it won't come loose anytime soon!


----------



## mbwilson111

ivo001 said:


> After about 30 mins I managed to get 1 side in..
> Think im giving up for tonight, my finger hurst like hell
> 
> Edit: Woohoo finally got it





Slater said:


> Glad you finally got it. At least it won't come loose anytime soon!



You might want to leave that cable in forever now... I would.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Dec 8, 2017)

Make the haters cringe (Sorry mobile users). And the most cringe-worthy part. I bought them all ('cept that gunmetal colored ED4 and the HD9 which was a loaner). What a "waste" of money. EW!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Oh, here are a couple more. 25 image limit and whatnot. There you go. 31 unique KZs (the Z1 is intermingled in with the ED4 in the above post).


----------



## Mellowship

B9Scrambler said:


> Oh, here are a couple more. 25 image limit and whatnot. There you go. 31 unique KZs (the Z1 is intermingled in with the ED4 in the above post).


Those old-school KZs are so cool! 
You're missing the IE80. Never got one?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mellowship said:


> Those old-school KZs are so cool!
> You're missing the IE80. Never got one?



Some of them are great. Many are horrible, haha. Nope, never found the IE80 at a good enough price so I passed. Maybe one day. At least I got a Micro Ring .


----------



## Mellowship

B9Scrambler said:


> Some of them are great. Many are horrible, haha. Nope, never found the IE80 at a good enough price so I passed. Maybe one day. At least I got a Micro Ring .



The Micro Ring is a legend! 
Wish I had one. And a DT5 also... 

Yeh, some KZs are horri... errr..., not for my taste. The ED12, the ATR and the EDS1... 
And then you have the bipolar ED7, sounds quite good out of a laptop or smartphone, awful with a proper DAP or amp.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

ivo001 said:


> After about 30 mins I managed to get 1 side in..
> Think im giving up for tonight, my finger hurst like hell
> 
> Edit: Woohoo finally got it


I always believed you could do it.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Mellowship said:


> The Micro Ring is a legend!
> Wish I had one. And a DT5 also...
> 
> Yeh, some KZs are horri... errr..., not for my taste. The ED12, the ATR and the EDS1...
> And then you have the bipolar ED7, sounds quite good out of a laptop or smartphone, awful with a proper DAP or amp.


oh, there are some KZs you don't care for...yet you don't repeatedly post complaints about it?Hunh... I mean, if you are unhappy with those models, by all means post ad nauseum about your distaste every time they are mentioned and yammer endlessly about how you can't understand why people would waste their money ....or you know just act like an _adult_ and move on when the discussion turns to IEMs you don't care for?


----------



## Mellowship

Cruelhand Luke said:


> oh, there are some KZs you don't care for...yet you don't repeatedly post complaints about it?Hunh... I mean, if you are unhappy with those models, by all means post ad nauseum about your distaste every time they are mentioned and yammer endlessly about how you can't understand why people would waste their money ....or you know just act like an _adult_ and move on when the discussion turns to IEMs you don't care for?


----------



## oyobass

B9Scrambler said:


> Make the haters cringe (Sorry mobile users). And the most cringe-worthy part. I bought them all ('cept that gunmetal colored ED4 and the HD9 which was a loaner). What a "waste" of money. EW!


Really like the look of the ED3. Looks like a tiny blow dryer.


----------



## Strat Rider

I have never had a bad iem. Even the ones that don't sound good......have been good enough to act as a decoy so my ex-wife didn't bother trying to talk to me!


----------



## Slater (Dec 8, 2017)

B9Scrambler said:


> Make the haters cringe (Sorry mobile users). And the most cringe-worthy part. I bought them all ('cept that gunmetal colored ED4 and the HD9 which was a loaner). What a "waste" of money. EW!



Sooo many old school classics there! That's a rare collection chief.

Hit me up if you ever want to sell a few of them (micro ring, ANV, DT5).


----------



## bsoplinger

B9Scrambler said:


> Make the haters cringe…


Couple of questions…
Which one is the micro ring? 
In the middle of the sequence, there are a pair, looks like a metal body, knurled around the middle, blue and red painted rings near the nozzle end, one pair silver-ish (aluminum?) the other pair golden in color. What are those?
KZ made a wooden body IEM? How was/is it? What model?


----------



## Slater (Dec 8, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> Couple of questions…
> Which one is the micro ring?
> In the middle of the sequence, there are a pair, looks like a metal body, knurled around the middle, blue and red painted rings near the nozzle end, one pair silver-ish (aluminum?) the other pair golden in color. What are those?
> KZ made a wooden body IEM? How was/is it? What model?



The micro ring is the one that looks like a vented machine gun barrel - really thin with lots of holes drilled in it.

Not sure about the wooden one - I must have missed that one. It looks like a cross between a VJJB K3 and a Magaosi BK50, except with a removable cable. I wish KZ would do more removable cables like that (ie "DC" style). They are reliable, and there's no chance of plugging them in backwards (out of phase) like the 2-pin nonsense. Like they used on that wooden one or the QKZ W1 Pro.


----------



## CYoung234

kokakolia said:


> That is such a bad analogy though! Mechanical watches make no sense! They're way more expensive than quartz watches and less accurate. You also have to spend hundreds of dollars to service them, and it only gets dumber and more expensive with "in house movements". I don't think much of watch enthusiasts. They spend more money for over-engineered and under-performing pieces of jewelry.
> 
> I'd get the Timex watch and spend another $30 for a nice leather strap over a dumb Rolex that looks boring (they all look the same) and requires expensive servicing every ~6 years.
> 
> ...



Three words for you to burn into your brain: IN MY OPINION.

Not sure why you spend so much time in a forum when you don't like the products? You are welcome to your opinions, but please don't parade them around as facts...


----------



## ivo001

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I always believed you could do it.



Thanks!

Trieing to figure out how to wear them now, and which side is actually the left and which is the right.
Are they supposed to be weared over the ear? Never done that before.
I might try to tiprol spinfit or foam tips tomorrow.


----------



## j0p3Y

TheVortex said:


> Isn't it the same? As you can use the same cable for the ZS3, ZS5 and ZS6.


Since it is 2 pin, yes that part fits, but the plastic bit that is right after the two pins, that part doesn't fit. I read here on headfi and in the advert, that because of that plastic part, there are two versions. The cable has silver colored metal plugs on all ends, not the black or white plastic plugs version. The parts with the two pins have a red or blue stripe on it.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

ivo001 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Trieing to figure out how to wear them now, and which side is actually the left and which is the right.
> Are they supposed to be weared over the ear? Never done that before.
> I might try to tiprol spinfit or foam tips tomorrow.


yeah, you sort of mold the wire over the back of your ear. Give it some time , play around with it a little. Some of us have to reverse the tips to make them fit right..on my right ear I use foam tips installed backwards, but the left ear is a foam tip installed the 'correct' way, go figure.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

CYoung234 said:


> Three words for you to burn into your brain: IN MY OPINION.
> 
> Not sure why you spend so much time in a forum when you don't like the products? You are welcome to your opinions, but please don't parade them around as facts...


if you set that troll to 'ignore' you won't have to go through this, you  don't see the vomitus they like to spill hither and yon...they aren't going to get your message through their dense cranium (they can't hear you over the sweet sounds of the Mode) and the mods clearly have no interest in doing anything about them.


----------



## TheVortex

j0p3Y said:


> Since it is 2 pin, yes that part fits, but the plastic bit that is right after the two pins, that part doesn't fit. I read here on headfi and in the advert, that because of that plastic part, there are two versions. The cable has silver colored metal plugs on all ends, not the black or white plastic plugs version. The parts with the two pins have a red or blue stripe on it.



I understand now you have this version below.




 

You will have to trim the housing and it will fit.


----------



## j0p3Y

TheVortex said:


> I understand now you have this version below.
> 
> 
> 
> You will have to trim the housing and it will fit.


here is another post of me with information about the cable (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1708#post-13876257). As someone mentioned there should be a pre-trimmed version of this cable. Since there is no indication on the two pin ends of which pin is ground, I am going to use my multimeter for that. Otherwise it would be strange just randomly plugging then in, especially because we are discussing very subjective quality difference between cables in the first place


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I think he probably has three or four times that  many...



These are just the discards.


----------



## groucho69

CYoung234 said:


> Three words for you to burn into your brain: IN MY OPINION.
> 
> Not sure why you spend so much time in a forum when you don't like the products? You are welcome to your opinions, but please don't parade them around as facts...



Life is good when you use the ignore function.


----------



## bsoplinger

j0p3Y said:


> …Since there is no indication on the two pin ends of which pin is ground, I am going to use my multimeter for that…


Nothing wrong with using your multimeter but the cable does have an indicator of orientation. Although it may look like the opening where you'll be trimming is rectangular it actually has one rounded end. This matches up with the rounded end of the key in the IEM shell. Just mark the rounded end of the cable before you trim it off and you'll be oriented correctly. @Slater has a link in his signature showing pictures of the orientation key.


----------



## themindfreak (Dec 9, 2017)

Slater said:


> What happened to them?


For ZS3 I sold it away because I really had too many iems at that time. For ZS5 even though it was the 2nd good unit I got, eventually led to channel imbalance (IDK how unlucky I am) and gave it to my father. Really unlucky with zs5 :/


----------



## RomStar (Dec 9, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> Further, there are so many alternatives under $50 that offer way better sound quality and build quality. And I don't believe that it's a huge sum of money to spend on earphones. But yeah, go ahead and find out how cheap you can go with KZ. They cut so many corners and the earphones are badly EQed. Enjoy your nasty boosted treble and hollow mids. But please, for the love of good sound, stop praising these cheap earphones like they're the cat's pajamas! Because they're not



Ok, i normally avoid being rude or inflammatory, but at this point, lets have a proper discussion. I will try eliminating all bias and objectively dissect any confusions i might have.

So you claim there are "so many alternatives that offer way better sound and build quality" for $50? I have been looking my hardest for the last 2 months to find more iems of the same caliber that compete or outshine the Zs5/6. As expected i found only a few, these include: Tin2 and brainwavz b100. However, there is a caveat,

1: I did listen to the T2's, they are damn good but at $40 USD, they dont blow the KZ out of the water at half the price $20/$12. Infact, the bass is lacking a bit for my taste and misses extension which is not a deal breaker, but i listen to a lot of rap (kendrick, drake, post malone and so on)

2: I havn't heard the brainwavz b-100 but they are tuned very differently. They are also $50 so i wont comment on them since i have no experience

At this point, you might bring up a "marshall modes" comparison, but i have completely dealt with that and debunked that it sounds close to Zircons, with less treble and more defined mids. They are deff bass boosted iems i would not at all be interested in, since i have a plethora of those. (I made a comprehensive and objective post which the mods deleted, go figures)

Now here is the dilemma, i can not trust you if you only say: "Marshall Modes are better" and come up with no other name. Yet, you constantly say this: "There are a lot of better iems under $50". As far as i know, i have only found 2 iems as stated above that are $50 and compete well. Now obviously there is sound preference in play here, for each of us, but we can still agree on some basics after owning so many iems. So i believe we can judge specific characteristics accurately and leave out bias (i.e mids, bass and highs)

At this point, i own Zircons, Remax D610s, Swingie80, LZA 3a, blitzwolf (coming soon) Boarsmen , Dzat and Sennheiser momentum's. As you notice, some are very bass heavy and differ from my only 2 kz iem (zs5 and 3). So i can assure you, its not me being biased and trying to "protect" my cognitive dissonance by forcing myself to believe since i spent $ on kz. ( It does outclass my $120 in-ear sennheisers). Clearly you noticed im trying to achieve variety with my gear but i used to have a distinct preference of heavy low end (Which is the opposite of zs5), but that has changed over time.

At this point, i want names of youre so called "better iems" under $50. Not close and ties with the zs5, rather what you said yourself. "*BETTER*".

I actually asked you this in the past i believe, but i just kept getting marshalls. If need be, i will rewrite my findings of the modes and explain exactly why i believe its nothing more than the plethora of bass boosted iems (youre run of the mill sub 20 chifi iem).  As far as the KZ goes, you dont own the Zs5 v1, which i believe is the best iem i own. So i wouldn't expect you to yell they are treble cannons, since they are not (only 1 BA near nozzle, and foams enhance bass even further). I have heard the zs6, and i will agree, there is deff more emphasis on the high end. Infact, its sibilant to my ears (Fall Out Boys: last of the real ones). However, i can get around that with foam tips...weird but it works for me. *Yet, i didnt buy the zs6 since i find the zs5 v1 to be more suited for me and very similar sound wise*. (As stated, i want variety in my gear)
*

Lastly: Its ok to have your'e opinion. I can totally see why you might think the Kz's have exaggerated highs (which it does at times). However, that does not mean youre absolutely correct and everyone might perceive it as such. Judging from youre fondness of warm sounding iems with boosted bass (yes modes have boosted bass, like my zircons) its pretty much expected.* Heck, i was a sucker for overwhelming bass, hence i have zircons and dzat. But for me, over time i realized, the Zs5's sounds mighty superior for Jazz and has much better instrumental separation, pleasing yet not overpowering punchy bass and excellent reproduction of live recordings (And unlike bass boosted iems, they dont muddy the mids or bleed into it) . *Do i listen to my zs5 all the time? No. Do i treat it like the bible of cheap iems? No. Do i think its absolutely amazing and punches far far above its weight? YES. The point is, opinions and preferences change over time, but i believe its no right to state opinion as facts. According to you, Sennheiser HD600 can be trash due to it being bright, but that wont be "Fact". Just what you think.
*
Now, i will be patiently awaiting your'e response, and see where i might have messed up or how i might have not found "Much better iems" under $50.


Edit: If i was a kz fanboy, i would get the zs6 and horde them. But im a poor university student that wants variety, hence i digress.


----------



## larry piencenaves

themindfreak said:


> Some people here claim to hear a difference. Personally I didnt hear a difference as well. I used to have 2 silver cables for ZS3 and ZS5 and now I miss them alot




did u break them?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I have some iBasso IT03's incoming, and I think it speaks volumes of the ZS6 that trying to find an upgrade was a serious struggle. The P1 and 1MORE Quad just weren't doing it right.


----------



## CoiL

SomeGuyDude said:


> I have some* iBasso IT03*'s incoming, and I think it speaks volumes of the ZS6 that trying to find an upgrade was a serious struggle. The P1 and 1MORE Quad just weren't doing it right.



Waiting for Your impressions! I wish You could compare them to ZS5v1, ZST and ZS6. Been eyeing IT03 long time but now there are so many options in that price range not to mention iBasso released cheaper IT01.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 9, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Ok, i normally avoid being rude or inflammatory, but at this point, lets have a proper discussion. I will try eliminating all bias and objectively dissect any confusions i might have.
> 
> So you claim there are "so many alternatives that offer way better sound and build quality" for $50? I have been looking my hardest for the last 2 months to find more iems of the same caliber that compete or outshine the Zs5/6. As expected i found only a few, these include: Tin2 and brainwavz b100. However, there is a caveat,
> 
> ...


well that was a well thought out post with specific examples and logical conclusions. I mean, if the other fella can explain why an IEM at 4x the price, with exaggerated bass and rolled off treble is better than my ES3 that I am really loving , I'm all ears....
....but I am sure it will be met with nonsense, fecal spraying, fever eyed nitwitedness.


----------



## maxxevv

SomeGuyDude said:


> I have some iBasso IT03's incoming, and I think it speaks volumes of the ZS6 that trying to find an upgrade was a serious struggle. The P1 and 1MORE Quad just weren't doing it right.



Indeed. The ZS6 does have something nice about them. A good friend uses the 1More Quad as his daily drivers. He had a listen of my ZS6's recently and asked if I could get a pair for him if I were to order anything too..... Says a lot!


----------



## RomStar

maxxevv said:


> Indeed. The ZS6 does have something nice about them. A good friend uses the 1More Quad as his daily drivers. He had a listen of my ZS6's recently and asked if I could get a pair for him if I were to order anything too..... Says a lot!



Actually, i have never heard the Quads myself, but i have also seen others compare the Quads to Zs6

In my honest opinion, that alone is a huge achievement for a $20 pair of iems. Now, in all honesty its not in my intention to stir controversy, but i have seen the Youtubers "DM3 TV" say he likes the Zs5 Over One-More Quads. Now that in itself (whether true or false) is mighty impressive i think ($300 vs $13)



Cruelhand Luke said:


> well that was a well thought out post with specific examples and logical conclusions.
> ....which I am sure will be met with nonsense, fecal spraying fever eyed nitwitedness.


Actually, i really hope he comes out with a proper response. I still think he might have a few points here and there, but he nevers states them. It always goes back to same dialogue of "There are better iems" or "i like marshalls". 

One again, im not going to hate or even undermine his views, but opinions shouldn't be stated as facts, unless he can prove them. Which he has not even tried doing so far


----------



## B9Scrambler

Well shucks. My first QC issue with a modern KZ.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

CoiL said:


> Waiting for Your impressions! I wish You could compare them to ZS5v1, ZST and ZS6. Been eyeing IT03 long time but now there are so many options in that price range not to mention iBasso released cheaper IT01.



I don't have the ZST, but I can compare to the other two for sure.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RomStar said:


> Actually, i have never heard the Quads myself, but i have also seen others compare the Quads to Zs6
> 
> In my honest opinion, that alone is a huge achievement for a $20 pair of iems. Now, in all honesty its not in my intention to stir controversy, but i have seen the Youtubers "DM3 TV" say he likes the Zs5 Over One-More Quads. Now that in itself (whether true or false) is mighty impressive i think ($300 vs $13)



The Quads are much more rolled off at the high end, I can see how someone would prefer the ZS5 for the extra treble energy. They're also $200, but that's still a heck of a price gap.

As for Professor Marshall, don't feed him. He barely has valid points. All he ever does is go "OMG KZ IS SUCH GARBAGE THEY'RE LIKE TURDS IN YOUR EARS MARSHALL MARSHALL MARSHALL MODEY MODE"


----------



## maxxevv

RomStar said:


> Actually, i have never heard the Quads myself, but i have also seen others compare the Quads to Zs6
> 
> In my honest opinion, that alone is a huge achievement for a $20 pair of iems. Now, in all honesty its not in my intention to stir controversy, but i have seen the Youtubers "DM3 TV" say he likes the Zs5 Over One-More Quads. Now that in itself (whether true or false) is mighty impressive i think ($300 vs $13)



To put things in proper perspective, he said that he liked the sound signature and the overall build quality versus price preposition of it. Not that he thinks the ZS6 were better than the Quads. He certainly didn't mention that. 
But still, for someone coming from earphones that cost almost 10x as much to ask for one immediately, its quite an endorsement.


----------



## paulindss (Dec 9, 2017)

The Guy are so inconvenient with that mode crap that he didn't realize hes doing a negative propaganda on the earphones. But i will ignore how annoiyng he is and pay attention on Other's impressions on the modes. So far It seems like a bassy earphone with good, not recessed mids, sound interesting to me. But i still love kz's, even if my Zst has more highs than i Would call ideal, cause i have common sense. And If you know i Will grab zsr even before read impressions. Because at that point, modern kzs are solid, trustworhty chi-fi references. What other budget chi-fi Brand has a historical with so much solid options ? "Flagships" from KZ, only from 2015: ATE, ED9, ATE S, ZS1, ZS3, ZST, ZS5, ZS6, ES3. Other's budget chi-fi brands hit the spot one time, and the release mediocre iems. KZ are not only good, but references.


----------



## RomStar (Dec 9, 2017)

maxxevv said:


> To put things in proper perspective, he said that he liked the sound signature and the overall build quality versus price preposition of it. Not that he thinks the ZS6 were better than the Quads. He certainly didn't mention that.
> But still, for someone coming from earphones that cost almost 10x as much to ask for one immediately, its quite an endorsement.


Actually, I'm blind

Link: 

Here's the link anyways, if anyone's interested. But I do apologize for misquoting @maxxevv 

Thanks again for the amazing input!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

maxxevv said:


> To put things in proper perspective, he said that he liked the sound signature and the overall build quality versus price preposition of it. Not that he thinks the ZS6 were better than the Quads. He certainly didn't mention that.
> But still, for someone coming from earphones that cost almost 10x as much to ask for one immediately, its quite an endorsement.



I can agree there. The Quads are, inarguably, the "better" headphone. The build is amazing, the sound is smooth and coherent, but the rolled off treble leaves me using the ZS6 more.

FWIW I have the Pinnacle P1, Quad, ZS5v1, and ZS6, and out of the 4 of them the ZS6 has been getting the most eartime by far. Part of that is the P1's impedance makes them sub-optimal with a phone (I listen loud), but it's still telling that I don't swap out to the P1 with my Mojo all that often. I rather like the LG v30 + ZS6 more. We'll see how the iBasso stacks up, reviews led me to think they're more in line with the ZS6 than the New Primacy, which people said were more mid-centric and had much softer treble (not qualities I'm looking for).


----------



## maxxevv (Dec 9, 2017)

↑


> Indeed. The ZS6 does have something nice about them. A good friend uses the 1More Quad as his daily drivers. He had a listen of my ZS6's recently and asked if I could get a pair for him if I were to order anything too..... Says a lot!
> Actually, i have never heard the Quads myself, but i have also seen others compare the Quads to Zs6



You quoted my comment. I was replying to yours.


----------



## RomStar

maxxevv said:


> ↑
> 
> You quoted my comment. I was replying to yours.


Actually, I would apologize here, as I misread the comment. It's 3:42 am and I read it as "Dm3 TV"comparing the zs6 (which he hasn't) 

And yep I'd agree with you and SomeGuyDude, since you have the gear and can test it. Honestly my bad, I'll edit my post to reflect that

Have a nice day!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RomStar said:


> Actually, I would apologize here, as I misread the comment. It's 3:42 am and I read it as "Dm3 TV"comparing the zs6 (which he hasn't)
> 
> And yep I'd agree with you and SomeGuyDude, since you have the gear and can test it. Honestly my bad, I'll edit my post to reflect that
> 
> Have a nice day!



LMAO get some sleep, brotha!

But yeah, it's largely about preference here, and finding tips that work. I'd never tell someone the ZS6 are better than the P1, for example, because they're pretty different and the P1 is a _stunningly_ good product, I just don't listen to it as much.


----------



## RomStar (Dec 9, 2017)

Actually @SomeGuyDude, I was meant to sleep at 2 am... But then I decided to read a few pages of this thread which I missed out

After seeing a certain someone, post a certain something (you know who ), I just had to post my findings before I went to bed... And now I'm half asleep




Still embarrassed I mis-read you're post @maxxevv. It happened when I was half asleep and saw this "he said he liked" lol

I'll be off to bed for sure now, have a good day/evening all


----------



## kokakolia

RomStar said:


> Ok, i normally avoid being rude or inflammatory, but at this point, lets have a proper discussion. I will try eliminating all bias and objectively dissect any confusions i might have.
> 
> So you claim there are "so many alternatives that offer way better sound and build quality" for $50? I have been looking my hardest for the last 2 months to find more iems of the same caliber that compete or outshine the Zs5/6. As expected i found only a few, these include: Tin2 and brainwavz b100. However, there is a caveat,
> 
> ...



I don't have the time or money to buy many $50 iems, especially after buying my babies, the KEF M100 that makes the KZ ZS5 sound so harsh, hollow and unnatural in comparison. 

But I'd consider the following earphones (other than the Mode) around $50 or less:

- Sony EX450/EX650
- Final Audio E2000/E3000
- Meze 11 Neo
- Zero Audio Carbo Tenore

You'd lump the Modes with another pair of IEMs you don't really like just like how I'd lump the ZS5s with cheap IEMs I don't like. So you're opinionated too! Admit it. 

Further, Jazz on ZS5s!? You must be mad! The brass instruments would sound so harsh!


----------



## groucho69

Cruelhand Luke said:


> well that was a well thought out post with specific examples and logical conclusions. I mean, if the other fella can explain why an IEM at 4x the price, with exaggerated bass and rolled off treble is better than my ES3 that I am really loving , I'm all ears....
> ....but I am sure it will be met with nonsense, fecal spraying, fever eyed nitwitedness.



I'd buy that album.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

groucho69 said:


> I'd buy that album.


It's the long awaited follow up to Ultra Fastly Magnetise


----------



## VShaft (Dec 9, 2017)

Almost the entirety of my IEM lineup consists of KZ models. Started with the ATE-S, and then tried ZS2, ATR, ZS3 & ZSE in this order.. The only one I didn't actually prefer in the end was the ZS2. Far from disliking them, I just didn't like their sound signature that much, and I gifted them. From the KZ line-up, I'm mainly rotating between ZS3 and ZSE depending on the mood. Between the ZS3 & ZSE I forked some more and bought a PMV A-01 Mk. II which can be attested by some reputed members here to be one highly regarded and very capable IEM. These are my personal flagships, so to speak.

Yet, I often come back to the ZS3 or ZSE, which were 10x cheaper.

Heck, I'd even say I sometime enjoy them more! The ZS3 with the Slater-mod is just so much fun. And recently tried the_ remove-red-mesh-and-stick-earbud-foam-in-the-nozzle_ mod on the ZSE as someone suggested (can't remember who it was). The result? Improved sound, for me, and another plus to an already pretty good IEM. The point being, as much as i love the sound of my PMV and I don't regret buying them, I am having trouble justifying how close the KZ come to it considering the price difference. If someone would say to me, "From now on, the only IEM you'll ever be allowed to use is a ZS3 (or ZSE)!" I'd say: "Well, okay. No problem!"

It seems that KZ offers insane value for the price. For any "normal" user out there who just wants a good piece of equipment without being infected with the audio bug, getting a ZSE or ZS3 can very well be considered TOTL. What more _do_ you actually need, for your day-to-day listening experience? Maybe I'm not that much of a critical listener, but I'm finding it hard to find a serious fault with any of the KZs I've tried...

Fun fact: I once took my modest collection for my sort-of-audiophile uncle who's an old school guy mostly into stereo equipment, and has been largely out of the loop regarding the IEM/earbud development. He was by far most impressed with the ZS3, followed by the TY HI-Z 32ohm. I didn't have the ZSE at the time, though I'm sure he'd have liked it. Sure, part of the reason is certainly that mainstream fun tuning of the KZs, but surely in part is also some genuine sound quality (despite the extremely cheap prices of these 'phones).


----------



## SomeGuyDude

You know what's a really important word in this thread? 

_*Fun.
*_
I feel like everyone gets so caught up in the technical proficiency of various products elsewhere on the site that they start trying to tune their ears to match the headphones instead of finding the headphones that puts the biggest smile on their face. People in here aren't even listening to the most expensive out of KZ's dirt cheap lineup, simply because they prefer other stuff.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

SomeGuyDude said:


> You know what's a really important word in this thread?
> 
> _*Fun.
> *_
> I feel like everyone gets so caught up in the technical proficiency of various products elsewhere on the site that they start trying to tune their ears to match the headphones instead of finding the headphones that puts the biggest smile on their face. People in here aren't even listening to the most expensive out of KZ's dirt cheap lineup, simply because they prefer other stuff.


true story.
I really like my ZS5 for how engaging they are, I start out with the intent to a/b with my other IEMs and just wind up listening to music on them, like the good lord intended.....but I actually prefer my ES3 (so far) and I don't for a second worry about if they sound 'right' I just love listening to music on them. Technically the ZS5 is superior, but it's the ES3 I keep picking up first. Ironically it's that fun factor that keeps me from liking the ZS3...for some reason it's just not doing it for me. Fortunately I have friends that aren't as picky as I am and someone will wind up with a nice little gift of them I am sure.


----------



## mbwilson111

Cruelhand Luke said:


> and I don't for a second worry about if they sound 'right' I just love listening to music on them.



I could say this about almost everything I have.  I am a music lover.


----------



## kokakolia

Cruelhand Luke said:


> true story.
> I really like my ZS5 for how engaging they are, I start out with the intent to a/b with my other IEMs and just wind up listening to music on them, like the good lord intended.....but I actually prefer my ES3 (so far) and I don't for a second worry about if they sound 'right' I just love listening to music on them. Technically the ZS5 is superior, but it's the ES3 I keep picking up first. Ironically it's that fun factor that keeps me from liking the ZS3...for some reason it's just not doing it for me. Fortunately I have friends that aren't as picky as I am and someone will wind up with a nice little gift of them I am sure.



How is it superior though!? On what ground? 

I am so perplexed by this because I don't find the ZS5 good for music listening at all. It's too hollow, harsh and unnatural sounding. It just breaks the immersion for me, as it just doesn't sound "right". But detail retrieval is superb. You can pick everything up in a song.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mbwilson111 said:


> I could say this about almost everything I have.  I am a music lover.



Same.

Don't get me wrong, I have expensive gear, my desktop rig for example, but what matters most is my connection to my music.  The ZS6 did that admirably. Stunningly well for a set that can be had for $30-ish.


----------



## B9Scrambler

SomeGuyDude said:


> Same.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, *I have expensive gear, my desktop rig for example, but what matters most is my connection to my musi*c.  The ZS6 did that admirably. Stunningly well for a set that can be had for $30-ish.



Spot on. I have a Susvara on hand yet I still mess around with these sub 10 USD earphones. Why? Because in the end they accomplish the same thing; they entertain. They still hit those emotional heart strings on the right tracks. And they do it well. 

There is a reason I say KZs are a near perfect place to begin in this hobby. Spend 30-40 bucks and buy 3 or 4 with different signatures. Once you know what you like, upgrade (if you even feel the need). Save the upgraded unit for your serious listening and use the KZ as a daily beater.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 9, 2017)

kokakolia said:


> How is it superior though!? On what ground?
> 
> I am so perplexed by this because I don't find the ZS5 good for music listening at all. It's too hollow, harsh and unnatural sounding. It just breaks the immersion for me, as it just doesn't sound "right". But detail retrieval is superb. You can pick everything up in a song.



To invoke The Dude, "That's like, your _opinion_ man" and MY OPINION is that every time I put them on, I FIND I get lost listening to different tracks. I enjoy detail retrieval...I like the sound signature of my ES3, they suit my ears well....so, come on,
Get real for a minute, what is the point of your existence in this thread? WHY ARE YOU HERE? I can claim them to be superior (which I didn't but, for arguments sake, I will) on the grounds that to my ears they are. The same way that you continue to vomit the detritus in your head out onto this board that they are not. You are an unwanted, annoying little gnat of a presence, a mosquito in a locked room buzzing our collective ears.
Your opinion has been duly noted, we all get that you don't like these headphones, now, why won't you  please, buzz off?  What do you possibly hope to achieve other than making this thread less enjoyable for others? Because that's all you're doing,_ you are taking away from the enjoyment of others. 
YOU _are the only headfi member that several _other members _have pm'd me to complain about.
and to get back on topic....
Has anyone done a mod on the ZS5 V2 similar to the one slater did to the ZST where he added foam to the BA to tame treble?
After burn in I noticed the sibilance mellowed out quite a bit on mine, but I'm wondering
if a little foam in the nozzle might help?
('foam in the nozzle' is a funny phrase. hehe)

EDIT I did say superior...compared to another KZ IEM...I thought you were asking how I can say they are superior to your beloved Modes. My bad.
and ..come on, the ZS5 is a technically superior headphone to the ES3...one is a simple 2 driver per ear setup and the other is 4 drivers and a crossover.
See what happened there? I realized I was mistaken, I corrected myself and now I am moving on...just like you might want to do? Admit these are all your opinions, it's wrong for you to question the tastes and experiences of others and MOVE ON...just a thought...


----------



## skajohyros

B9Scrambler said:


> Make the haters cringe (Sorry mobile users). And the most cringe-worthy part. I bought them all ('cept that gunmetal colored ED4 and the HD9 which was a loaner). What a "waste" of money. EW!



Love it. Go hard or go home.


----------



## Saoshyant

So, after seeing the KEF M100 for sale for 30 I decided to give them a try.  Interesting sound with good detail retrieval.  Ultimately, it might suit me better than ZS6 once I take the time to get used to both as I've only had the ZS6 like a week.  The very next day my 11/11 order arrives and I'm just now listening to the Auglamour RT-1.  All I can say is I feel bad for the upcoming neglect of the ZS6 & M100 as this just sounds "like home" with my initial listening if that makes sense to anyone.  Also might result ina neglected Toneking Nine Tails which arrived in the same delivery.

The ZS3 has the same feeling for me, and while the ZS5 & 6 are technically quite a bit better, the ZS3's sound suits me better.  Could just be a matter of a better fit with the ZS3.

I really do need to spend some time with the ZS6 soon however as it certainly hasn't gotten enough time to really make a decision.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 9, 2017)

Saoshyant said:


> this just sounds "like home" with my initial listening if that makes sense to anyone



of course this makes sense..perfect sense...enjoy


----------



## williamclarkonet

just pick up a pair of kz zs3 cant wait to see how much bass these have!


----------



## oyobass

williamclarkonet said:


> just pick up a pair of kz zs3 cant wait to see how much bass these have!


I think you'll like the sound. Good bass, more present mids than many/most of KZ's BA line. If they fit you, I understand that they'll be quite comfortable. 

I have ears that won't get along well with them fit-wise but I do like the smoother treble vs. the ZS5 and ZS6. Not necessarily better, but a nice break from the crispness of the two later ZS series on some music.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> I think you'll like the sound. Good bass, more present mids than many/most of KZ's BA line. If they fit you, I understand that they'll be quite comfortable.
> 
> I have ears that won't get along well with them fit-wise but I do like the smoother treble vs. the ZS5 and ZS6. Not necessarily better, but a nice break from the crispness of the two later ZS series on some music.


you and I are like weird ear-twins or something! I can't quite get the fit right on my ZS3s and I gotta do the stupid reverse foam tip thing too!
For me the best fit is the ES3, they feel made for me, go figure.


----------



## oyobass

Cruelhand Luke said:


> you and I are like weird ear-twins or something! I can't quite get the fit right on my ZS3s and I gotta do the stupid reverse foam tip thing too!
> For me the best fit is the ES3, they feel made for me, go figure.


I'll have to check out the ES3 then, my wierd ear-twin.
How would you compare it to the ZS3 and ZS6 sound- wise?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> I'll have to check out the ES3 then, my wierd ear-twin.
> How would you compare it to the ZS3 and ZS6 sound- wise?


I don't have a ZS6, I went with the 5 ...regardless, I can't give great impressions at this point, I got an ear infection a few days after I got all of them. I haven't been able to hear properly out of that ear for a few days now...
The ES3 seems almost neutral compared to the ZS5...I'm not prepared to say it's "neutral sounding" since I can't hear correctly right now, but compared to each other, the ES3 is less bright (in a good way) and the bass doesn't dip quite as low...so it's a little more smooth and of a piece if that makes sense?


----------



## AlexiusC

Not sure if it's me but I kinda like the ZST more than the ZS6. (Probably the ZS6 is new and at 50 hours burn-in). Although I have to say that the soundstage on the ZS6 is... wow!


----------



## oyobass

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I don't have a ZS6, I went with the 5 ...regardless, I can't give great impressions at this point, I got an ear infection a few days after I got all of them. I haven't been able to hear properly out of that ear for a few days now...
> The ES3 seems almost neutral compared to the ZS5...I'm not prepared to say it's "neutral sounding" since I can't hear correctly right now, but compared to each other, the ES3 is less bright (in a good way) and the bass doesn't dip quite as low...so it's a little more smooth and of a piece if that makes sense?


Thanks. That sounds interesting. I certainly like IEMs that give an 'of a piece' presentation. One reason I like the ZS6 over ZS5.


----------



## RomStar (Dec 10, 2017)

Does anyone have an actual proper review of the Es3? I didn't buy it initially, since there wasnt a huge splash but now im interested again after hearing youre thoughts @Cruelhand Luke

Can someone do or link one kindly?

My take away is: Less bright (yay) and slightly less bass extension, and sounds diff than the ZS lineup

Edit: Wait, did we have Es1 and Es2? Or is it just a new lineup that starts from Es3 for no reason


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Does anyone have an actual proper review of the Es3? I didn't buy it initially, since there wasnt a huge splash but now im interested again after hearing youre thoughts @Cruelhand Luke
> 
> Can someone do or link one kindly?
> 
> ...


I get the feeling a wealth of reports in this thread of QC issues with the ES3 early on probably has something to do with the lack of enthusiasm.  I feel like those QC problems contributed to some seriously wide swinging initial impressions that really just didn't paint a cohesive picture of why you would choose them over the ZS5 or ZST.
(front volume venting QC = bass all over the place, foam placement in the nozzle QC = mids all over the place too)

@Vidal did a quick review on it right after it came out (here)
@hakuzen has a bunch of measurements on it (here) and some tinkering with modding (here)

My take was pretty much in line with what Vidal posted about them - that's too much bass for me.
(bass on them is very moddable though, but tricky because they're so touchy about messing with their front volume venting)


----------



## RomStar

vector84 said:


> I get the feeling a wealth of reports in this thread of QC issues with the ES3 early on probably has something to do with the lack of enthusiasm.  I feel like those QC problems contributed to some seriously wide swinging initial impressions that really just didn't paint a cohesive picture of why you would choose them over the ZS5 or ZST.
> (front volume venting QC = bass all over the place, foam placement in the nozzle QC = mids all over the place too)
> 
> @Vidal did a quick review on it right after it came out (here)
> ...


Very very interesting, the over all picture i get is: Avoid the first batch of Kz's for 2 reason:

1: Wait it out for an amazing GB deal
2: Mods

I dont think i will be picking them up then, i moved on from iems with heavy low end, but i will deff consider it if there is a price drop/deal. 

I think i will start calling you Surgical Vector from now on, your'e like a surgeon, very precise and have a vast expanse of information at your'e disposal 

Lastly, whats with the naming scheme? I can't find any Es1/2, weird


----------



## vector84

RomStar said:


> Lastly, whats with the naming scheme? I can't find any Es1/2, weird


No idea, but maybe something to do with being a GearBest exclusive initially? 

I really want to love the ES3 - the amount it can be altered by some simple mods really makes me feel like there's a gem to be had there somewhere that I just haven't discovered yet... but it just didn't inspire me enough to find it, I suppose.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

vector84 said:


> _foam placement in the nozzle QC = mids all over the place too)_
> 
> that's too much bass for me.
> (bass on them is very moddable though, but tricky because they're so touchy about messing with their front volume venting)


RE the foam in the nozzle, can you be more specific with the issues there? Mine seem fine, I haven't really even looked that close at the ES3 yet, but looking just now both sides have a little foam in the nozzle _next to_ the BA driver, which seems to indicate it is there to adjust the frequencies of the dynamic driver, so I suppose mids and lower frequencies are affected by that? 
RE the bass, there are 2...or 3? vents. There are two obvious small holes, one or both could be covered or widened to affect sound. There's a third hole that seems to have a little white decal or tape on the inside, I imagine piercing that would have an effect as well...so, three possible changes right there without even opening them up.


----------



## stryed

oyobass said:


> Thanks. That sounds interesting. I certainly like IEMs that give an 'of a piece' presentation. One reason I like the ZS6 over ZS5.



What's better with the ZS6 (vs ZS5)? Besides build quality of course....


----------



## fede.97 (Dec 10, 2017)

Hi guys, late comer to the ZS train, started with the ZS6 


 (potato quality photo)
As said by others, ZS6's trebles are a bit annoying to me, so foam pads are on their way from china. Is there any other way to bring trebles down other than the 75ohm resistor?


----------



## nkramer

ok. so i tried the "on backwards" foam tip idea. i can't believe it. it actually works. (sealing a bit better) due to the tip not being rounded/tapered.

i've been using comply for years, and it wasn't until recently that i've purchased some iems that are more of a custom/higher-end shape like ZS3, ZST, Westone, Sure, style etc... and with the shape of these, the foam tips don't go in as far as they would with your standard cylinder style iem.

anyway, just wanted to say thanks.

....ingenuity at it's finest.


----------



## nkramer

fede.97 said:


> Hi guys, late comer to the ZS train, started with the ZS6
> 
> 
> (potato quality photo)
> As said by others, ZS6's trebles are a bit annoying to me, so foam pads are on their way from china. Is there any other way to bring trebles down other than the 75ohm resistor?



EQ, if available. doesn't take much either to rein them in.

also, look for slaters mod posts for ZS5/ZS6. bunch of options (i'll look for link)


----------



## nkramer

fede.97 here's one of them Post #25083
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098


----------



## fede.97

nkramer said:


> fede.97 here's one of them Post #25083
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098


Thanks A LOT mate, I totally missed this one. I'll read it thoroughly!


----------



## nkramer

fede.97 said:


> Thanks A LOT mate, I totally missed this one. I'll read it thoroughly!



your welcome, but make sure you give props where due.... to slater. (one of the gurus in this thread)


----------



## oyobass

nkramer said:


> ok. so i tried the "on backwards" foam tip idea. i can't believe it. it actually works. (sealing a bit better) due to the tip not being rounded/tapered.
> 
> i've been using comply for years, and it wasn't until recently that i've purchased some iems that are more of a custom/higher-end shape like ZS3, ZST, Westone, Sure, style etc... and with the shape of these, the foam tips don't go in as far as they would with your standard cylinder style iem.
> 
> ...


Necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention. Loud stage, insanely loud drummer, (think Animal from the Muppets on steroids) and me thinking that I have to block the racket out or go deaf. Just a desperation move, really.


----------



## hakuzen (Dec 10, 2017)

vector84 said:


> I get the feeling a wealth of reports in this thread of QC issues with the ES3 early on probably has something to do with the lack of enthusiasm.  I feel like those QC problems contributed to some seriously wide swinging initial impressions that really just didn't paint a cohesive picture of why you would choose them over the ZS5 or ZST.
> (front volume venting QC = bass all over the place, foam placement in the nozzle QC = mids all over the place too)
> 
> @Vidal did a quick review on it right after it came out (here)
> ...





vector84 said:


> No idea, but maybe something to do with being a GearBest exclusive initially?
> 
> I really want to love the ES3 - the amount it can be altered by some simple mods really makes me feel like there's a gem to be had there somewhere that I just haven't discovered yet... but it just didn't inspire me enough to find it, I suppose.



you were the first one who dealt with ES3 tinkering and found their QC issues, @vector84 . even after reading your experience, i walked through similar path: oversized the glued vent hole of one driver with a needle, and had to fix it by using your trick: tape + little hole punched with the needle.
agree with your appreciation, playing with the vent hole and with foam at the nozzle, you can tweak bass and 1.5-4kHz area many dBs. if we find them too bassy, just make the hole bigger (carefully); if we want to go back, tape + punch preferred hole size. if we find mids too forwarded or recessed, play with the foam in the nozzle (it tames the mids which come from the dynamic driver).
for the price they cost, i found them more competent (resolution, imaging, etc.) than many other hybrid iems which costed me 4x more, and i like their tonal signature. so they are a very good value, imo.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 10, 2017)

nkramer said:


> your welcome, but make sure you give props where due.... to slater. (one of the gurus in this thread)


Yes, BUT...please, for your own sefety, do not @Slater three times as this will cause him to appear in your house and start attacking all your IEMs with sewing needles and laser glue!


----------



## stryed

Before


fede.97 said:


> Hi guys, late comer to the ZS train, started with the ZS6
> 
> 
> (potato quality photo)
> As said by others, ZS6's trebles are a bit annoying to me, so foam pads are on their way from china. Is there any other way to bring trebles down other than the 75ohm resistor?



I'd wait a bit and use EQ. I ended up slowly reducing the EQ progressively and now, 2 months later, I don't even EQ them anymore. Brainburn or whatnot I'll have to cross check with my unused KZ ZS6....


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

oyobass said:


> I'll have to check out the ES3 then, my wierd ear-twin.
> How would you compare it to the ZS3 and ZS6 sound- wise?


Another quick ES3 observation, they like to be amped a little. 
My phone has a pretty good dac/amp, but straight from the phone it's not quite so smooth, but running through the Fiio A3 cleans the sound up and makes it a really pleasurable IEM.


----------



## oyobass (Dec 10, 2017)

stryed said:


> What's better with the ZS6 (vs ZS5)? Besides build quality of course....


Note that I have the ZS5 v.1 which I understand is quite different than v.2.

With the with the ZS5, it seems that the different frequency ranges are separately being piped into my ears via 3 different hoses, so to speak. The biggest hose carries the treble. They are ok on most music, and exceptional on Classical, acoustic, ambient and live music because they boost the sense of space and the feeling of being there.

The ZS6 feels more unified and whole in its presentation, with one big hose delivering the sound to my ears. It has the uncanny ability to morph to the music on the low end. Classic rock sounds like classic rock without bass bloat. Switch up to EDM and you would swear that you were in a room with a massive subwoofer. The bass extension goes way low, easily below 20 Hz. At those frequencies, I feel rather than hear my eardrums being driven.

The mids, while still recessed, are much stronger than my ZS5.

Treble is still overdone, but can be tamed with foam (Comply-style) eartips or other, more involved mods.

Soundstage is very good, but not as airy and spacious sounding an the ZS5.

Plus, the ZS6 is beautiful, thanks to its construction and color, (borrowed from Campfire Audio). I just like to look at them sometimes, lol.

Remember, this is only my experience with the two. Other people can and do hear things differently, so take this as my opinion, not "truth".

Edit: My impressions are from using pretty average source gear: Galaxy S4, Galaxy Sky, laptop and PC earphone outs. I have heard that the ZS5 sounds amazing with better sources that can handle its ultra low impedance.
The ZS6 seems to sound good on any somewhat adequate souce...


----------



## fede.97 (Dec 10, 2017)

stryed said:


> Before
> 
> 
> I'd wait a bit and use EQ. I ended up slowly reducing the EQ progressively and now, 2 months later, I don't even EQ them anymore. Brainburn or whatnot I'll have to cross check with my unused KZ ZS6....


I can stand the treble most of the times with classical music or EDM, but with some rock songs (Tom Petty's Free Fallin', Won't Back Down and similar...) they are really annoying: I had to turn down the volume in order to make the tambourine bearable.
I could actually EQ them, but I'd need to EQ every device I use and change EQ settings whenever I change IEM or use my Sennheiser. I prefer to have a flat equalization, if possible, and adjust accordingly the listening device... Thanks for your advice, though


----------



## vector84 (Dec 10, 2017)

hakuzen said:


> you were the first one who dealt with ES3 tinkering and found their QC issues, @vector84 . even after reading your experience, i walked through similar path: oversized the glued vent hole of one driver with a needle, and had to fix it by using your trick: tape + little hole punched with the needle.
> agree with your appreciation, playing with the vent hole and with foam at the nozzle, you can tweak bass and 1.5-4kHz area many dBs. if we find them too bassy, just make the hole bigger (carefully); if we want to go back, tape + punch preferred hole size. if we find mids too forwarded or recessed, play with the foam in the nozzle (it tames the mids which come from the dynamic driver).
> for the price they cost, i found them more competent (resolution, imaging, etc.) than many other hybrid iems which costed me 4x more, and i like their tonal signature. so they are a very good value, imo.


Yeah, there were a number of people reporting problems with the ES3 with driver flex and considerable channel imbalance around that time too 


Cruelhand Luke said:


> RE the foam in the nozzle, can you be more specific with the issues there? Mine seem fine, I haven't really even looked that close at the ES3 yet, but looking just now both sides have a little foam in the nozzle _next to_ the BA driver, which seems to indicate it is there to adjust the frequencies of the dynamic driver, so I suppose mids and lower frequencies are affected by that?


Yup, on my pair that piece of foam was around the nozzle of one BA, and along the side of the other... obviously that created a pretty weird mis-match   Placement and density of the foam can mess with the mids quite a bit.


> RE the bass, there are 2...or 3? vents. There are two obvious small holes, one or both could be covered or widened to affect sound. There's a third hole that seems to have a little white decal or tape on the inside, I imagine piercing that would have an effect as well...so, three possible changes right there without even opening them up.


The one with a white decal over it is the front volume vent, the other two are back volume vents (and as far as I can remember, tampering with them didn't have a huge effect, but I'd need to dig them out to be sure).

The front vent has seen similar problems to the ZST - it can show up clogged with glue, and you can punch it out to fix the issue.  But I went a step further and and started tampering with an un-clogged vent - and punching it out most of the way made bass drop off by a *huge* amount (-30dB roughly), and sizing the hole to get them tuned accurately is a bit of a daunting task, though I believe it was @oyobass that pointed out it can be done a bit easier with some tape wrapped around a needle as a stop-point marker to get a more exact sized hole.


Cruelhand Luke said:


> Another quick ES3 observation, they like to be amped a little.
> My phone has a pretty good dac/amp, but straight from the phone it's not quite so smooth, but running through the Fiio A3 cleans the sound up and makes it a really pleasurable IEM.


Yeah the ES3 is ~8 ohms nominal - pretty low / hefty current draw (but not as hard to drive as a ZS5v1 either).


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Has anyone done a mod on the ZS5 V2 similar to the one slater did to the ZST where he added foam to the BA to tame treble?



I just did the mods outlined here to my ZS5 v2 today. Works just as well on the ZS5 v2 as the ZS6.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Slater said:


> I just did the mods outlined here to my ZS5 v2 today. Works just as well on the ZS5 v2 as the ZS6.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098


Do you mean putting the foam inside?


----------



## MasterDomino

Hello everyone, as im new to this community please note that im a total newbie.
Im a user of KZ ED9 for quite some time and liked this headphones the most from all of headphones that i have(good to note that i never had any good ones to begin with) and im currently interrested buying more products from KZ, last listing i bought ED9 cuz i had 1 pair already that broke, i guess im really unlucky if it comes to cables(mobile user) and thinking about buying ZS3 or ATE/Pro also bought pair of Boarseman KR25D but im not sure how they will sound like, but so far im happy with those cheap chi-fi, only the channels like to unscrew easily i guess some piece of cloth or pipe sealant can help xD.
Greetings Master.


----------



## CoiL

fede.97 said:


> Hi guys, late comer to the ZS train, started with the ZS6
> 
> 
> (potato quality photo)
> As said by others, ZS6's trebles are a bit annoying to me, so foam pads are on their way from china. Is there any other way to bring trebles down other than the 75ohm resistor?



Actually I think it is pretty easy to modify ZS6/ZS5v2 treble by messing with the BA resistor(s).


----------



## Slater (Dec 11, 2017)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Do you mean putting the foam inside?



Yes. On the ZS5 v2 I tried it all of the ways as I tested on the ZS6 to see if there were any differences (or different recommendations for ZS5 v2 vs ZS6).

Nope, everything is still valid between the ZS5 v2 and ZS6.

Note I did not mess with the resistor though. I was only testing mods that the average person could easily perform.


----------



## JayceOoi

For those interested, ZS6 @ $21.99 with this code - ZS6KL 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html


----------



## ivo001

Was just trying to do some tiprolling with the ZST i got, but I found it rather difficult.
Tried to get the Spinfit CP100 on, but it does not really look secure.
Struggling to get it properly over the nozzle, it looks like its just angled. Is their some kind of magic trick to do this? I tried using a toothpick as an aid.


----------



## bsoplinger

ivo001 said:


> Was just trying to do some tiprolling with the ZST i got, but I found it rather difficult.
> Tried to get the Spinfit CP100 on, but it does not really look secure.
> Struggling to get it properly over the nozzle, it looks like its just angled. Is their some kind of magic trick to do this? I tried using a toothpick as an aid.


Umm does the spinfit numbering scheme match that of the Comply tips? Then I think you want 400/500 size for 4.9mm nozzle diameters instead of 100 size which is 3.0mm nozzles.


----------



## ivo001

bsoplinger said:


> Umm does the spinfit numbering scheme match that of the Comply tips? Then I think you want 400/500 size for 4.9mm nozzle diameters instead of 100 size which is 3.0mm nozzles.



I bought them from NiceHCK on Aliexpress. In the description it says it is suitable for nozzles from 4.5-5.5mm.
However Amazon says the nozzle size is only 3.8mm?
And on AE the seller DUNU has isted them as 3.8mm too. Link


----------



## Scaven

Slater said:


> I just did the mods outlined here to my ZS5 v2 today. Works just as well on the ZS5 v2 as the ZS6.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098



I did your mod to my ZS6 today using the same UV light activated glue, worked like a charm!! Now these headphones are nearly perfect!!!


----------



## fede.97

CoiL said:


> Actually I think it is pretty easy to modify ZS6/ZS5v2 treble by messing with the BA resistor(s).


Has anyone tried to do so?
I'd like not to destroy my brand new toys and my SMD soldering skills are quite terrible (never really worked on it)...


----------



## Slater (Dec 12, 2017)

Scaven said:


> I did your mod to my ZS6 today using the same UV light activated glue, worked like a charm!! Now these headphones are nearly perfect!!!



Nice!

Isn’t that UV glue awesome? Gone are the days of sticking your fingers together with super glue!

It’s great for a variety of IEM mods.

And it is removable from plastic if you need to. It scrapes off with a needle, spudger tool, metal guitar pick, etc.


----------



## Makahl (Dec 12, 2017)

Guys, has someone painted the faceplate of KZ ZST?

I already removed the "ZST Hifi-Armature" with isopropyl alcohol and tried to set a black matte car adhesive onto the faceplate. The first impression it's looks dope and much more expensive aesthetic-wise, but after some days the adhesive starts to lift off so I think painting will be the best solution but I have no clue how to do it. If there are any tips or some product recommendation I'll really appreciate!


----------



## nkramer

painting anything plastic that you will be continually touching is not a good idea. the oils in the skin eventually start to break down the paint/clear coat. (usually sooner than later)

but, if you want to try....
- scuff the plastic with a scotchbrite pad to give the paint something to stick to.
- use a paint that's meant for plastic. some even use automotive "vinyl dye" paint
- clearing might be an option to finish it off but i have no suggestions for you on that. just make sure you use one that is compatible with the paint you use.


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like the launch of the ZSR has been delayed slightly but should still be this month. What a shame as I am looking forward to getting a white one and removing the cheesy writing on the side. Hopefully soon we can get an update for the 5 driver model as well.


----------



## Slater (Dec 12, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Guys, has someone painted the faceplate of KZ ZST?
> 
> I already removed the "ZST Hifi-Armature" with isopropyl alcohol and tried to set a black matte car adhesive onto the faceplate. The first impression it's looks dope and much more expensive aesthetic-wise, but after some days the adhesive starts to lift off so I think painting will be the best solution but I have no clue how to do it. If there are any tips or some product recommendation I'll really appreciate!



You can use acrylic nail polish (available in many different colors). That's what a lot of the guys that build DIY CIEMs use.

You can also put a water slide decal on (print yourself, buy premade one, or have custom one made online), and put a topcoat of clear acrylic nail polish. The CIEM builders do that too, and it ends up looking as professional as multi-thousand dollar CIEMs.

Lots of ideas and examples in the DIY CIEM thread, many of which would apply to IEMs like the ZST.


----------



## Makahl

nkramer said:


> *painting anything plastic that you will be continually touching is not a good idea*. the oils in the skin eventually start to break down the paint/clear coat. (usually sooner than later)
> 
> but, if you want to try....
> - scuff the plastic with a scotchbrite pad to give the paint something to stick to.
> ...



I really appreciate your help! I agree with you. So I figured out maybe the adhesive still the best option but the one which I was using it's designed to car's application and a bit too thick for fixing around the edges. But now testing with a simple electrical tape the result is better! 







I know it's just aesthetic, but I really liked the result!


----------



## oyobass

Makahl said:


> I really appreciate your help! I agree with you. So I figured out maybe the adhesive still the best option but the one which I was using it's designed to car's application and a bit too thick for fixing around the edges. But now testing with a simple electrical tape the result is better!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the stealth mode look. Question- isn't the plastic under your tape black? Could you take the shine off with scotchbrite and call it good?


----------



## nkramer

if you just want to sticker them in a solid color, check your local sign shop & ask if they have any scraps laying around.... regular calendered vinyl that they use for vehicle lettering.


----------



## CoiL

Should I do some extra wooden backplates for ZS5 and ZST when I`m doing them for my units? I can make some for "sell" if someone is interested. But not much, maybe around 10. There shouldn`t be much fans of ZST and ZS5, me thinks.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Should I do some extra wooden backplates for ZS5 and ZST when I`m doing them for my units? I can make some for "sell" if someone is interested. But not much, maybe around 10. There shouldn`t be much fans of ZST and ZS5, me thinks.



Will they have side vents like on the stock ZS5, or are you doing an open back grille like on the FF ATE?

What kinda wood were you thinking?

I was actually planning on doing some carbon fiber backs to a spare pair of ZS5, but wood would be cool too.


----------



## KipNix

I've read the reviews for the KZ ZS6 and I'm hearing they have a lot of treble. That doesn't bother me since I love the wood DZAT DF-10, which may be similar and had a great balanced sound. 
It's time to buy. 
Which would you recommend?


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Should I do some extra wooden backplates for ZS5 and ZST when I`m doing them for my units? I can make some for "sell" if someone is interested. But not much, maybe around 10. There shouldn`t be much fans of ZST and ZS5, me thinks.



Way too much work Coil I say just put them in and enjoy them Unbelievable what one can get for less than Fitty Dolla these days


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> You can use acrylic nail polish (available in many different colors). That's what a lot of the guys that build DIY CIEMs use.
> 
> You can also put a water slide decal on (print yourself, buy premade one, or have custom one made online), and put a topcoat of clear acrylic nail polish. The CIEM builders do that too, and it ends up looking as professional as multi-thousand dollar CIEMs.
> 
> Lots of ideas and examples in the DIY CIEM thread, many of which would apply to IEMs like the ZST.



Hi Slater, do you have a link for the DIY CIEM thread as I am quite interested in that.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> Hi Slater, do you have a link for the DIY CIEM thread as I am quite interested in that.



Here you go buddy: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/home-made-iems.430688/

There's stuff on that would blow your mind. Some of the stuff people have made is incredible (starting with zero knowledge and just reading and learning and trying stuff out). The materials to make everything is readily available, and that thread is so packed with guides, photos, and info it will make your head explode.

Even if you don't ever plan on making your own CIEMs, there's so much useful stuff in there that one could use a lot of the same info for modding universal IEMs.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Slater said:


> Very possible. They do a lot of ODM work.
> 
> I never knew they were behind the Tennmak brand until recently.


Hi Slater,
Does it work for all these models (ZST, ZS 3,5 and) to put a piece of foam into the nozzle to kill sibilants? Or is it just for ZS 5 and6?


----------



## Slater (Dec 12, 2017)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Hi Slater,
> Does it work for all these models (ZST, ZS 3,5 and) to put a piece of foam into the nozzle to kill sibilants? Or is it just for ZS 5 and6?



ZS3 is a single driver not a hybrid. There is already foam in the nozzle of the ZS3 - in fact you want to REMOVE the foam in the ZS3!

But for the other models you listed - ZST, ZS5, and ZS6 yes it is a great method to kill the sibilance of the ultra-high frequency BA driver.

The same mod method should in theory work for future KZ hybrid models as well, such as the ZSR, ZS10, and ZS4. Unless KZ drastically changes something, such as installing proper BA filters from the factory.

Here is the original post I did for the ZST foam mod: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## Makahl

oyobass said:


> I like the stealth mode look. Question- isn't the plastic under your tape black? Could you take the shine off with scotchbrite and call it good?



Well, I removed the glow layer with sandpaper but I didn't like it either. This fake carbon fiber pattern looks ugly to me.

Tbh, seeing the first page now there's a CIEM with wooden backplate and it looks awesome too. If @CoiL makes a similar one I'd buy it! But I can see the shipping price kinda ruining it haha.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Well, I removed the glow layer with sandpaper but I didn't like it either. This fake carbon fiber pattern looks ugly to me.
> 
> Tbh, seeing the first page now there's a CIEM with wooden backplate and it looks awesome too. If @CoiL makes a similar one I'd buy it! But I can see the shipping price kinda ruining it haha.



Is that a ZST? I can't really tell, but the IEM plug looks like ZST ends...


----------



## CoiL (Dec 13, 2017)

Podster said:


> Way too much work Coil


Too much work? Naaah... I let the CNC do the work with faceplates, that`s why I offered this out loud. I make only 2D drawing and cut them out with CNC.
If someone wants I could send or publish drawings for ZST & ZS5 in .dxf 2007 format pre-set for Kozy (nccad75). Yes, I know that machine is oldie - but it does the work needed 
I will use mainly hardwoods like _Quercus robur_ L. & _Fraxinus excelsior _,which are easy to work with in thin layers, have nice contrast wood patterns (light & dark lines) and also good for staining.

Btw, I think I could send faceplates with usual letter also, they are thin and small.


----------



## Slater

Wow, Gearbest is crushing it lately.

In addition to the ES3, they're also going to be the exclusive distributor of the ZSR: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1212-promo-you-are-invited.832367/page-66#post-13910907


----------



## SomeTechNoob

wow, interesting.  If only gearbest shipping wasnt so slow lol.  Still waiting for my ZS5 from 11/11


----------



## Slater (Dec 13, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> wow, interesting.  If only gearbest shipping wasnt so slow lol.  Still waiting for my ZS5 from 11/11



Are you picking the free shipping? That's brought over by a guy swimming.

The Netherlands one is always the slowest by far (not sure what it's called - maybe NLPost or something ie NL=Netherlands). When I choose that one, it means I'm in no rush and I just assume it will take 30-45 days to the US. That way I don't worry about it and I'm not dissapointed.

Try the faster shipping options, which is usually only a few dollars.


----------



## Podster (Dec 13, 2017)

Well you know I was just teasing you Coil, I admire your work or re-working as it is and yet again another nice gesture for someone else to try their hand

Also nothing wrong with an oldie as I seem to fall into that catagory myself these days


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Are you picking the free shipping? That's brought over by a guy swimming.
> 
> The Netherlands one is always the slowest by far (not sure what it's called - maybe NLPost or something ie NL=Netherlands). When I choose that one, it means I'm in no rush and I just assume it will take 30-45 days to the US. That way I don't worry about it and I'm not dissapointed.
> 
> Try the faster shipping options, which is usually only a few dollars.


Good to know about NLpost. Explains a lot!


----------



## ivo001

Slater said:


> Are you picking the free shipping? That's brought over by a guy swimming.
> 
> The Netherlands one is always the slowest by far (not sure what it's called - maybe NLPost or something ie NL=Netherlands). When I choose that one, it means I'm in no rush and I just assume it will take 30-45 days to the US. That way I don't worry about it and I'm not dissapointed.
> 
> Try the faster shipping options, which is usually only a few dollars.



I'm also still waiting ony my ZS5 from Geabest. Ordered it on 8 november. I actually noticed I did not have free shipping, but payed $1,17 for the delivery.
According to the info page it is using 

Deliveries : Europe Railway Registered
Can't even see that option available anymore




Meanwhile I have received multiple orders placed later at Gearbest with free shipping already. Orders from 17, 19, 23 november.
Really don't understand why the more expensive shipping is taking sooooo long.


----------



## pringles147

Hi sorry if I'm off topic a bit. Just wanted to update a bit on the KZ ZSR.
Apparently on this thread Gearbest have received some samples and will start selling them soon 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1212-promo-you-are-invited.832367/page-66


----------



## ivo001

pringles147 said:


> Hi sorry if I'm off topic a bit. Just wanted to update a bit on the KZ ZSR.
> Apparently on this thread Gearbest have received some samples and will start selling them soon
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1212-promo-you-are-invited.832367/page-66



Look at Post #26279


----------



## pringles147

ivo001 said:


> Look at Post #26279


Ok awesome. Sorry I missed that post


----------



## jaydm99

Slater said:


> Are you picking the free shipping? That's brought over by a guy swimming.
> 
> The Netherlands one is always the slowest by far (not sure what it's called - maybe NLPost or something ie NL=Netherlands). When I choose that one, it means I'm in no rush and I just assume it will take 30-45 days to the US. That way I don't worry about it and I'm not dissapointed.
> 
> Try the faster shipping options, which is usually only a few dollars.


I think they ditched PostNL for unregistered shipping, my most recent order form Gearbest is now handled by China Post unregistered.


----------



## youngarthur

Slater said:


> Are you picking the free shipping? That's brought over by a guy swimming.
> 
> The Netherlands one is always the slowest by far (not sure what it's called - maybe NLPost or something ie NL=Netherlands). When I choose that one, it means I'm in no rush and I just assume it will take 30-45 days to the US. That way I don't worry about it and I'm not dissapointed.
> 
> Try the faster shipping options, which is usually only a few dollars.


First time for everything, so sorry,I have to disagree with you young Slater. The guy is NOT swimming, he is being carried along by the tide, and prevailing winds, so get your facts right young man.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Slater said:


> Are you picking the free shipping? That's brought over by a guy swimming.



No way, that's way too fast.  They put IEMs in a bottle and wait for it to drift across the pond right?

Yeah, free shipping.  I'm cheap, I save money wherever possible.  $1 is $1 lol.  I have had a ton of packages already arrive from late november though, so I find it bizarre how a package can still take so long from china.


----------



## Ynot1

Slater said:


> Wow, Gearbest is crushing it lately.
> 
> In addition to the ES3, they're also going to be the exclusive distributor of the ZSR: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1212-promo-you-are-invited.832367/page-66#post-13910907



I think I saw someone else selling ES3. But that someone else could be GearBest using a different name because the sales ad layout looked similar.
None the less exclusive.


----------



## TJK81

ivo001 said:


> I'm also still waiting ony my ZS5 from Geabest. Ordered it on 8 november. I actually noticed I did not have free shipping, but payed $1,17 for the delivery.
> According to the info page it is using
> 
> Deliveries : Europe Railway Registered
> ...



Hey @ivo001 ,
seem we are facing same issue. My tracking info for ZST's looks absolutely the same.
As @Slater mentoined, shipping via NLPost... Good to know which service i will avoid next time.


----------



## bsoplinger

On the subject of Gearbest shipping, how do folks feel about "America Line (SF)" which seems to be their defacto small package shipping method. I loved the USPS backed e-packet shipping service and use it with AliExpress purchases when possible. Used it when Gearbest offered it too. But lately its just been this America Line. Which I don't care for at all. Takes longer, never seems to have tracking info and even 3rd party tracking sites often only have inside China tracking with nothing after arriving on US soil. 

Are others having issues with this shipping method? What do you use instead? I've gotten to the point that although I like the service, in general, that I get from Gearbest I'm paying a few bucks more to order from AliExpress just so I can get e-packet shipping.


----------



## durwood

So what is the big deal about the KZ ZSR other than being mentioned as 10 drivers (5 per side I take it)? Was it shown to improve upon something, or are we all just speculating since it is new and unknown.


----------



## TheVortex (Dec 13, 2017)

durwood said:


> So what is the big deal about the KZ ZSR other than being mentioned as 10 drivers (5 per side I take it)? Was it shown to improve upon something, or are we all just speculating since it is new and unknown.



The ZSR is a triple driver ( 2 x dynamic drivers and 1 x balanced armature ) IEM with a custom like shell for under $25. Also supposed to have a crossover in there as well. The 10 drivers ( 5 a side ) has no official release date yet.


----------



## young59

TheVortex said:


> The ZSR is a triple driver ( 2 x dynamic drivers and 1 x balanced armature ) IEM with a custom like shell for under $25. Also supposed to have a crossover in there as well. The 10 drivers ( 5 a side ) has no official release date yet.


Iirc the Zsr are 1 x Dynamic driver and 2 x Balanced armature. Isn't it?


----------



## TheVortex

young59 said:


> Iirc the Zsr are 1 x Dynamic driver and 2 x Balanced armature. Isn't it?



My mistake, you are right.


----------



## Saoshyant

bsoplinger said:


> On the subject of Gearbest shipping, how do folks feel about "America Line (SF)" which seems to be their defacto small package shipping method. I loved the USPS backed e-packet shipping service and use it with AliExpress purchases when possible. Used it when Gearbest offered it too. But lately its just been this America Line. Which I don't care for at all. Takes longer, never seems to have tracking info and even 3rd party tracking sites often only have inside China tracking with nothing after arriving on US soil.
> 
> Are others having issues with this shipping method? What do you use instead? I've gotten to the point that although I like the service, in general, that I get from Gearbest I'm paying a few bucks more to order from AliExpress just so I can get e-packet shipping.



It's kind of an awful service.  I would have had a green ZS6, but they lost it to the point where GB offered me both a refund and a nice point credit.  Will most likely go another route for ZSR.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Here you go buddy: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/home-made-iems.430688/
> 
> There's stuff on that would blow your mind. Some of the stuff people have made is incredible (starting with zero knowledge and just reading and learning and trying stuff out). The materials to make everything is readily available, and that thread is so packed with guides, photos, and info it will make your head explode.
> 
> Even if you don't ever plan on making your own CIEMs, there's so much useful stuff in there that one could use a lot of the same info for modding universal IEMs.



Thanks for the link Slater. It's giving me ideas, hmmmmm.


----------



## groucho69

bsoplinger said:


> On the subject of Gearbest shipping, how do folks feel about "America Line (SF)" which seems to be their defacto small package shipping method. I loved the USPS backed e-packet shipping service and use it with AliExpress purchases when possible. Used it when Gearbest offered it too. But lately its just been this America Line. Which I don't care for at all. Takes longer, never seems to have tracking info and even 3rd party tracking sites often only have inside China tracking with nothing after arriving on US soil.
> 
> Are others having issues with this shipping method? What do you use instead? I've gotten to the point that although I like the service, in general, that I get from Gearbest I'm paying a few bucks more to order from AliExpress just so I can get e-packet shipping.



e-packet rules


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> On the subject of Gearbest shipping, how do folks feel about "America Line (SF)" which seems to be their defacto small package shipping method. I loved the USPS backed e-packet shipping service and use it with AliExpress purchases when possible. Used it when Gearbest offered it too. But lately its just been this America Line. Which I don't care for at all. Takes longer, never seems to have tracking info and even 3rd party tracking sites often only have inside China tracking with nothing after arriving on US soil.
> 
> Are others having issues with this shipping method? What do you use instead? I've gotten to the point that although I like the service, in general, that I get from Gearbest I'm paying a few bucks more to order from AliExpress just so I can get e-packet shipping.





Saoshyant said:


> It's kind of an awful service.  I would have had a green ZS6, but they lost it to the point where GB offered me both a refund and a nice point credit.  Will most likely go another route for ZSR.



Yeah, the few times I've tried the "America Line" there's been some sort of issue. If I want it faster, I use the other "fast" shipping method (don't remember the name, but it's the non-"America Line" one).


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Yeah, the few times I've tried the "America Line" there's been some sort of issue. If I want it faster, I use the other "fast" shipping method (don't remember the name, but it's the non-"America Line" one).


America Line seems to be whatever works at the moment. Tracking shows random  shipping methods, IIRC.


----------



## j0p3Y (Dec 13, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> Nothing wrong with using your multimeter but the cable does have an indicator of orientation. Although it may look like the opening where you'll be trimming is rectangular it actually has one rounded end. This matches up with the rounded end of the key in the IEM shell. Just mark the rounded end of the cable before you trim it off and you'll be oriented correctly. @Slater has a link in his signature showing pictures of the orientation key.


Damn for my worsening eyesight!  Thanks, seen slater's pics. Now to find out how to trim off that 1 extra millimeter without damaging the plugs.
Unfortunately they sent me the wrong cable, whould have been the ones with 5mm pluglength, this is 6mms.

#fixed, was easier than expected. just a sharp blade and a looking glass and we're happy!


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> America Line seems to be whatever works at the moment. Tracking shows random  shipping methods, IIRC.



Ah, so basically "America Line" is just a generic name for whoever they feel like using that day (a crapshoot in other words). Good to know!


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Ah, so basically "America Line" is just a generic name for whoever they feel like using that day (a crapshoot in other words). Good to know!


The operative phrase is IRRC. My memory isn't what it used to be, but then again, it never was...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I started a thread to collect all of the various tutorials for modifications...please contribute any IEM mods you may have done and posted in this thread or others, thanks
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-mod-collective-bring-all-your-iem-mods-here.867486/


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Slater said:


> Ah, so basically "America Line" is just a generic name for whoever they feel like using that day (a crapshoot in other words). Good to know!



fwiw I picked up a little quadcopter on GearBest w/ America Line and got a Fedex smartpost number.  Said label created for a good week and a half, but now it shows up in LA today with delivery on Friday.  Not bad for 99 cents.


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> fwiw I picked up a little quadcopter on GearBest w/ America Line and got a Fedex smartpost number.  Said label created for a good week and a half, but now it shows up in LA today with delivery on Friday.  Not bad for 99 cents.



Wow, never had any Gearbest stuff shipped via FedEx!

BTW, take a look at this:https://www.gearbest.com/store/store_235.html

Looks like Gearbest is going to start modeling themselves like Aliexpress and Amazon, where any 3rd party seller can sell on Gearbest. Not sure if I like that...

And to keep this on topic, the KZ EDR2 was just on sale for $2.99 with Gearbest coupon. That's a ridiculous price for a great IEM (one of my favorite daily driver IEMs).


----------



## bsoplinger

I've ordered a half dozen items in the last month from Gearbest, the most expensive being a pair of ZS6, and have used the America Line choice each time because it was only a choice between free, that or a true overnight style method like FedEx or DHL with a cost over $20. And as someone mentioned two of those resolved into FedEx once in the US but not a arrive in 3 days timing as if it was FedEx the whole way. Total time on the order of 10 days. Two others resolved into USPS priority / e-packet service, again with about 10 days for delivery. But the last 3 or 4 items, shipping limbo. The best I can get is inside China info and that's through 17track.net or the like. Worst part, supposedly the packages left China on a plane before 11/30 but not a trace of them in the US. Hence my question here about the shipping since I figured, especially with the great deals offered, that people were buying from Gearbest.


----------



## sklchan (Dec 13, 2017)

Just received my ZS6 from GB, so far so good, like it a lots. Do some simple freq sweep through and it able to generate sound even as low as 10Hz then uptill ~13kHz (my old ears can't hear a thing after) LOL. And yes the "S" effect do obviously heard but I do recommend whoever owned this unit please take note to *disable all your EQ setting when using this earbuds* as most of the EQ profile (that ppls normally selected for their previous headphone) mostly "V" format to boost those old headphone which don't have specific BA for the high pitch and good DD for bass as after I turn off the EQ the "S" effect seem not too obvious or I can said just sufficient to get all the sound clarity without the obvious "S" effect. ZS6 really perform very good in the bass region even with a flat EQ.

Overall I'm very satisfy with the ZS6 and bang for buck for just USD19.99 from GB...


----------



## SomeTechNoob

It's a scary thought, but I think I like the sound of my ZS5s more than my HD 6XX.  Sound signature is just so much more energetic, and the soundstage is a bit larger with imaging being just as good.  And then add in the crazy instrumental separation and it's over.  Midrange comes through nicely without giving up bass or treble, wheras my HD 6XX has good midrange and nothing else.

Anyone know open cans similar to the ZS5 v1s?


----------



## CYoung234 (Dec 14, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> It's a scary thought, but I think I like the sound of my ZS5s more than my HD 6XX.  Sound signature is just so much more energetic, and the soundstage is a bit larger with imaging being just as good.  And then add in the crazy instrumental separation and it's over.  Midrange comes through nicely without giving up bass or treble, wheras my HD 6XX has good midrange and nothing else.
> 
> Anyone know open cans similar to the ZS5 v1s?



Yes, my AKG K501's, but they do not have as good of low end extension as the ZS5. Soundstage, midrange, extension and sense of space and air are far better on the AKG's, although the ZS5 does well for an iem... Hard to beat a good pair of open cans for those attributes...


----------



## Mellowship

SomeTechNoob said:


> It's a scary thought, but I think I like the sound of my ZS5s more than my HD 6XX.  Sound signature is just so much more energetic, and the soundstage is a bit larger with imaging being just as good.  And then add in the crazy instrumental separation and it's over.  Midrange comes through nicely without giving up bass or treble, wheras my HD 6XX has good midrange and nothing else.
> 
> Anyone know open cans similar to the ZS5 v1s?



Not open, but the ATH-M50 has the energetic treble and a somewhat similar punch in the low end. Not as airy though, but good separation and resolution. I don't go as far as stating I like the ZS5's sound over the AT's, but both have been my main drivers the past few months and they complement each other nicely. At least I don't get the feeling of downgrading when I go from the full-sized-closed-classical-studio-cans-of-joy to the cheapo-chifi-glue-filled-three-drivers-kind-a-workin-and-the-other-serving-as-xmas-decoration.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

M50s have the mids sucked way out last time I tried them.  Didn't like the sound, and especially not the comfort.  I have my AKG K553s for closed cans anyway, which are just light on bass.

It's always difficult to compare IEMs and headphones.  Such similar use cases but totally different execution.


----------



## AudioObsession (Dec 14, 2017)

bsoplinger said:


> On the subject of Gearbest shipping, how do folks feel about "America Line (SF)" which seems to be their defacto small package shipping method. I loved the USPS backed e-packet shipping service and use it with AliExpress purchases when possible. Used it when Gearbest offered it too. But lately its just been this America Line. Which I don't care for at all. Takes longer, never seems to have tracking info and even 3rd party tracking sites often only have inside China tracking with nothing after arriving on US soil.
> 
> Are others having issues with this shipping method? What do you use instead? I've gotten to the point that although I like the service, in general, that I get from Gearbest I'm paying a few bucks more to order from AliExpress just so I can get e-packet shipping.



I find that with GearBest, Ebay (China purchases), Aliexpress and most tracking links offered by sellers is more then often screwed up.
So, I use "AfterShip" all you have to do is copy/paste or type in your tracking # and they'll search like 400+ couriers.
Anyway here's a link: https://www.aftership.com/couriers


----------



## Viber

I wish KZ would invest more time on the Bluetooth module... a BT wire for the ZS3\5\6 which can hold 8 hours of music + good connectivity and sound quality would be a dream come true! :-D


----------



## nkramer

i don't have ZS5s to compare, but i love my grado sr60 which are open back, and not terribly expensive either. only roll off around 35 & below.
they are not bass cans by any extent of the imagination (go get a pair of beats) but you'll be amazed at what they're actually capable of being fully open, and they do it well.


----------



## nkramer

Viber said:


> I wish KZ would invest more time on the Bluetooth module... a BT wire for the ZS3\5\6 which can hold 8 hours of music + good connectivity and sound quality would be a dream come true! :-D



if run time is the only issue, you could probably swap out the cell/battery for a higher capacity one. but from what i've read on it so far, there's a pretty noticeable lag (so really only good for calls & music)

someone posted a link to a different brand that worked with kz. probably a handful of pages back.


----------



## Mellowship

And now for another appreciation of KZ's greatness... 
 
I built myself an amp to use almost exclusively with my ATH-M50. 

But the other day I decided to test some IEMs. Boy, do they sound differently when properly amped...

Concerning the KZs amped via this modified RA1 clone with different caps, connected to my X3II (dock line out):
- ZS5 (v1): scales really well. The awesomeness just gets better;
- ZS3: wow! I really didn't care much about these until I started using different wide-bore XL silicone tips, silver cable and a better DAP/AMP. They opened their sound, lots of bass, good highs, good mids, good soundstage, great IEM! I love them now (that is, until I connect them to my smartphone again...). 
- ED9: For 15 minutes they are ok. From then on they start to get tiring with their piercing highs. But the bass gets really boosted with this amp.
- ATE: I love the ATE in every way. For me, the best KZ ever regarding quality/price/design/comfort. Amped, they get somewhat congested with more dynamic passages, but maintain the lush mids, the sweet sweet female voices, the good grip on the bass. Use with jazz, classical, etc.
- ZSE: crap when amped... they sound tinny and hollow... and I really like them otherwise. 
- ZST: very good. Sounds about the same when unamped, maybe a little bit bassier, but with the same resolution and wide soundstage. A great combo with this amp. 
- EDSE: not much diff.
- ED12: still the worst piece of %$#%$ KZ ever made. IMHO! 
- IE80: the treble gets really weird. Boosted in all the wrong places. (directly through my X3II or S5, or Topping NX2, they are one of the best KZs. They didn't get along with this amp)
- EDR2: the bass keeps falling short. These would be great IEMs if they had just a little bit of subbass... 
- HDS1: meh... 
- ATR: dullness amplified 

Notice that this appreciation is done exclusively with my DIY headphone amplifier.


----------



## Willber

SomeTechNoob said:


> It's a scary thought, but I think I like the sound of my ZS5s more than my HD 6XX.  Sound signature is just so much more energetic, and the soundstage is a bit larger with imaging being just as good.  And then add in the crazy instrumental separation and it's over.  Midrange comes through nicely without giving up bass or treble, wheras my HD 6XX has good midrange and nothing else.
> 
> Anyone know open cans similar to the ZS5 v1s?


Don't forget the venerable KSC75. Great sound, space and separation for about $15. They've been around forever, but there's good reason for that.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nkramer said:


> i don't have ZS5s to compare, but i love my grado sr60 which are open back, and not terribly expensive either. only roll off around 35 & below.
> they are not bass cans by any extent of the imagination (go get a pair of beats) but you'll be amazed at what they're actually capable of being fully open, and they do it well.



LMAO I love this garbage attitude. "Pffft if you like bass get BEATS."

Because, obviously, TRUE audiophiles like their music to sound like it's coming out of an answering machine. All us chumps who like a full frequency range are just peasants, right?

I'll take this for an open can, thanks.


----------



## razorpakk

Mellowship said:


> And now for another appreciation of KZ's greatness...
> 
> - ATE: I love the ATE in every way. For me, the best KZ ever regarding quality/price/design/comfort. Amped, they get somewhat congested with more dynamic passages, but maintain the lush mids, the sweet sweet female voices, the good grip on the bass. Use with jazz, classical, etc.
> keeps falling short. These would be great IEMs if they had just a little bit of subbass...
> - ATR: dullness amplified



I don't find much difference between ATR and ATE (love them both).


----------



## Pruikki (Dec 14, 2017)

Hello!

I need your advice Head Fi people!

-----Ordered Kz Zs3 on sale yeah, well for 2 minutes i was amazed and felt like everything else before i used was crap,(Kanen KM92)
Well 2 minutes i was happy and amazed by ZS3..then the broke, Left ear became dominant, review video where speech is was all on left side.

- ZS3 became unbalanced, i cant use them drives me nuts! Gearbest gave em partial refund.
ordered another one straight away...hoping they wont be defective as well, lets see

TL;DR My Zs3 became unbalanced, one side dominates, Did the foam removal thing, did not help.

oh, And the box was white,not like ATE or ATR
(i like ATR the most,just sounds balanced in terms of sound, its in the middle stereo, ATE is like 60/40 and Zs3 is like 80/20
i got defective KZs...

tips,advices? (yes, my third pair will buy insurance from Gb so they send replacement if its a dud next time)  
ANYONE ELSE HAD ISSUES? please share!


----------



## rae39852

acia said:


> Those poor souls has no access of Google translate


you got the point!


----------



## Mellowship

razorpakk said:


> I don't find much difference between ATR and ATE (love them both).


My ATE is the very 1st generation. Love them! To me they are soooo different from the ATR ... 
Well, the ATE has been known to change the sonic signature across the generations/iterations. I guess it became closer to the ATR sound more recently. Maybe your ATE is a recent iteration, or is it the ATEs?


----------



## razorpakk

Mellowship said:


> My ATE is the very 1st generation. Love them! To me they are soooo different from the ATR ...
> Well, the ATE has been known to change the sonic signature across the generations/iterations. I guess it became closer to the ATR sound more recently. Maybe your ATE is a recent iteration, or is it the ATEs?


 Bought them both less than two months ago from Aliexpress and Gearbest (I've actually gone through 3 different ATE and just bought 3 new pairs to gift them over christmas).

I hear the ATR as slightly more balanced and narrower, but it's a really small difference.


----------



## Mellowship (Dec 14, 2017)

razorpakk said:


> Bought them both less than two months ago from Aliexpress and Gearbest (I've actually gone through 3 different ATE and just bought 3 new pairs to gift them over christmas).
> 
> I hear the ATR as slightly more balanced and narrower, but it's a really small difference.


Yep, seems like the ATE has changed drivers, and perhaps the ATR too. Mine are both 1st gen, even got a spare ATE in a sealed shield-shaped plastic box. They couldn't sound more differently from each other.

I guess one shouldn't make assumptions on some KZs, as they change a lot. Just like ZS5 v1 and V2...


----------



## Slater (Dec 14, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Anyone know open cans similar to the ZS5 v1s?



My Fidelio X2 are very close - they remind me of a full size version of the ZS5 v1.

I haven't A/Bd them against the ZS5 v1 yet, but Koss KSC75 also comes to mind from memory (which is brighter than the PortaPro and KSC35).


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> And now for another appreciation of KZ's greatness...
> 
> I built myself an amp to use almost exclusively with my ATH-M50.
> 
> ...



Agree 100% with these.


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Yep, seems like the ATE has changed drivers, and perhaps the ATR too. Mine are both 1st gen, even got a spare ATE in a sealed shield-shaped plastic box. They couldn't sound more differently from each other.
> 
> I guess one shouldn't make assumptions on some KZs, as they change a lot. Just like ZS5 v1 and V2...



Yeah, ATE has at least 5 generations. Not all revisions have driver changes though. There's a nice post @CoiL did which details the change in each generation. If you search this thread you'll find it, or maybe he'll pop up and post the link to the post


----------



## razorpakk (Dec 14, 2017)

Slater said:


> Yeah, ATE has at least 5 generations. Not all revisions have driver changes though. There's a nice post @CoiL did which details the change in each generation. If you search this thread you'll find it, or maybe he'll pop up and post the link to the post


This should be it, looks like I've got the 5th gen, and it should be a good one (I'm a sucker for wide soundstage).
Getting some Fiio FH1 and Simgot En700Pro for Christmas, yet I'm sure the ATE will still be the most used Iem.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-929#post-13053179

It would be nice if they released a new version with removable MMCX. A decent cable is all they need (at least one that doesn't make me look like I'm wearing earrings).


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> mmm 80mAh battery vs 60mAh on the kz original... The result shouldnt be a doubled play time.
> Other stuff like audio quality and connectivity is also very important.
> 
> Looking forward for a review.



It would be easy to build a custom solution. I have a neckband-based Bluetooth setup that I bought specifically for this purpose. Has 8hr battery life if I remember. I just haven't had time to take it apart and switch out the stock (sucky) earpods for a KZ DETACHABLE cable. Then I can swap in any 2-pin removable model!


----------



## nkramer

SomeGuyDude said:


> LMAO I love this garbage attitude. "Pffft if you like bass get BEATS."
> 
> Because, obviously, TRUE audiophiles like their music to sound like it's coming out of an answering machine. All us chumps who like a full frequency range are just peasants, right?
> 
> I'll take this for an open can, thanks.



it's responses like this that are not helpful or wanted.

why so defensive?
i wasn't trying to put down beats, or anybody that likes them. they're just a well known bass headphone. 
i was trying to say that the grado's have good bass, but not near as bass heavy as the beats. (trying to give a reference point of sound.... via.. words)



> I'll take this for an open can, thanks.


LCD-X. yeah, me too. you buying? ($1,200/ea.)
i'm sure they're amazing and a hell of a lot better then the entry level grados i suggested.
going off of the cans SomeTechNoob was talking about (and being in a chi-fi thread) i wasn't going to suggest anything near that price range.



> Because, obviously, TRUE audiophiles like their music to sound like it's coming out of an answering machine.


lol. too funny!


----------



## pringles147 (Feb 6, 2018)

I bought these however by PIZEN.
http://s.aliexpress.com/yyyQfEJj


----------



## bsoplinger (Feb 6, 2018)

pringles147 said:


> I bought these however by PIZEN.
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yyyQfEJj


That looks pretty nice. I just don't quite understand the need / use for this sort of thing. It seems to me that the small C-cell battery size or 9 volt cell sized standalone style Bluetooth adapter would be more useful. It's got way more room for a battery. It is that much trouble to take the cord and wrap the unnecessary part up? Or is there something I'm missing here? I'm guessing I'm missing something because these style are so popular.


----------



## Slater (Feb 6, 2018)

That’s basically exactly what I’m building.

At the end of the day, by the time I had bought the neckband BT IEM + KZ silver cable + my time, I may as well have bought this!


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> That looks pretty nice. I just don't quite understand the need / use for this sort of thing. It seems to me that the small C-cell battery size or 9 volt cell sized standalone style Bluetooth adapter would be more useful. It's got way more room for a battery. It is that much trouble to take the cord and wrap the unnecessary part up? Or is there something I'm missing here? I'm guessing I'm missing something because these style are so popular.



You mean this style?

https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> You mean this style?
> 
> https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html


Yeah. Seems like something like that while still small could have way better battery life than a tiny pack designed to be a fashionable bump in a regular cable.


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> And now for another appreciation of KZ's greatness...
> 
> I built myself an amp to use almost exclusively with my ATH-M50.
> 
> ...



Tell us (well me anyway) about that amp!


----------



## oyobass

groucho69 said:


> For the love of dog do NOT trust Amazon reviews


Fakespot.com is a pretty good Amazon review BS detector.


----------



## Mellowship

groucho69 said:


> Tell us (well me anyway) about that amp!



 


groucho69 said:


> Tell us (well me anyway) about that amp!


 
 
Nothing too fancy. An old 4556 opamp, Alps 10k pot, 4.7uf admission caps. And a virtual ground circuit, connected to 2 9v batts or a 24v DC transf. Like the Grado RA1. Or a hyped Cmoy...


----------



## HungryPanda

Hey I love chi-fi kz or qkz or what but I own lcd-x and love them all. Peace to all


----------



## bsoplinger

oyobass said:


> Fakespot.com is a pretty good Amazon review BS detector.


That and camelcamelcamel ￼￼￼ are required for Amazon shopping nowadays, unfortunately ￼￼￼


----------



## rae39852 (Feb 6, 2018)

Bluetooth cable is a good option. If I got those earphones, I may consider replace the original cable.


----------



## rae39852

groucho69 said:


> For the love of dog do NOT trust Amazon reviews



no review is better than a review. You are true. I trust here more.


----------



## oyobass

rae39852 said:


> Bluetooth cable is a good option. If I got those earphones, I may consider replace the original cable.


I ordered the KZ Bluetooth cable, since it was $2.99 a few days ago. I don't know if I'll use it much, but for the price, I couldn't resist...


----------



## sklchan

Mellowship said:


> Nothing too fancy. An old 4556 opamp, Alps 10k pot, 4.7uf admission caps. And a virtual ground circuit, connected to 2 9v batts or a 24v DC transf. Like the Grado RA1. Or a hyped Cmoy...


Isn't the more the routing (more complex, more stages, more complicated) from the source to the speakers will causing more unwanted deviation toward the original sound??
Sorry as I'm an EE and believe in the more simple connection (prefer direct connection) from source to the end will have less deviation from the original as every single add on will contribute to artificial deviation from the source... just my 2 cents


----------



## rae39852

oyobass said:


> I ordered the KZ Bluetooth cable, since it was $2.99 a few days ago. I don't know if I'll use it much, but for the price, I couldn't resist...


2.99? are you sure? It's unbelievable. So cheap. I like KZ ZS6 earphones. They are quite good for the price


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

SomeGuyDude said:


> LMAO I love this garbage attitude. "Pffft if you like bass get BEATS."
> 
> Because, obviously, TRUE audiophiles like their music to sound like it's coming out of an answering machine. All us chumps who like a full frequency range are just peasants, right?
> 
> I'll take this for an open can, thanks.


Whats an "answering machine"??


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

[QUOTE="SomeTechNoob, post: 13913567, member: 462664"

It's always difficult to compare IEMs and headphones.  Such similar use cases but totally different execution.[/QUOTE]
True story. 
I was listening to my ES3 and then putting on various over ear headphones and the closest match was with my Fidelio L2...the L2 are clearly another level in sound quality...but the ES3 seems to be doing similar things in similar ways. It's hard to put your finger on it...


----------



## jaydm99

Pruikki said:


> Hello!
> 
> I need your advice Head Fi people!
> 
> ...


Yeah. I've seen at least 5 people in a local audiophile fb group whom had bought new stocks of ZS3 (white box) that are complaining about driver failure. Their right earpiece are completely shot. No sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Whats an "answering machine"??



Hey!  I still have one!


----------



## oyobass (Dec 15, 2017)

rae39852 said:


> 2.99? are you sure? It's unbelievable. So cheap. I like KZ ZS6 earphones. They are quite good for the price


Coupon code sale at GearBest. Quite unbelievable! It was the ZST version of the cable, so I will have to modify it to fit my ZS6.

Edit: I found the coupon code in this post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/121...6s-6s-7-7-x-9-99.832367/page-65#post-13910793

If you haven't already subscribed to the thread, do so. George is like the genie, granting discount wishes.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Yeah. Seems like something like that while still small could have way better battery life than a tiny pack designed to be a fashionable bump in a regular cable.



Yeah, the Xiaomi Bluetooth adapter works great. I use it with full sized headphones all of the time. I was I just using it with Fidelio X2 yesterday.


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> Yeah. I've seen at least 5 people in a local audiophile fb group whom had bought new stocks of ZS3 (white box) that are complaining about driver failure. Their right earpiece are completely shot. No sound.



Well that’s not a good sign at all.

So it’s always the right earpiece that’s died on all of them? How odd...


----------



## jaydm99

Slater said:


> Well that’s not a good sign at all.
> 
> So it’s always the right earpiece that’s died on all of them? How odd...


Yes. And they all got it from one seller. Seems like Gearbest has the same bad batch as well.


----------



## Mellowship

sklchan said:


> Isn't the more the routing (more complex, more stages, more complicated) from the source to the speakers will causing more unwanted deviation toward the original sound??
> Sorry as I'm an EE and believe in the more simple connection (prefer direct connection) from source to the end will have less deviation from the original as every single add on will contribute to artificial deviation from the source... just my 2 cents


It depends on the use. 
In my case, as I use the line out from the dap, or from any other source like a cd player, the amp acts as intended. If I where to use the headphone out, I would be adding layers of distortion to the signal, as I would be amping an amplified signal.


----------



## ivo001

bsoplinger said:


> Yeah. Seems like something like that while still small could have way better battery life than a tiny pack designed to be a fashionable bump in a regular cable.


But then you need to plug a 1.2m cable into that BLuetooth adapter and wind it around your neck or something?


----------



## ivo001

Something special has happened, my ZS5 have finally arrived!
Ordered on 8 november for $12,99 + $1,17 shipping, arrived on 14 december.
Also received my bluetooth module on the same day that was ordered on 27 nov.
But since the pins are pretty hard to plug in, I can't see myself switching a lot. Got the nice grey-ish upgrade cable on it now. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32831364422.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.eCPoyH)


----------



## OrenjiBageru

Anyone knows how to open up and fix KZ ZS3. I was using the brand new KZ ZS3 for about an hour and then suddenly the right earpiece becomes broken, I want to know how to fix it.


----------



## Mellowship

ivo001 said:


> Something special has happened, my ZS5 have finally arrived!
> Ordered on 8 november for $12,99 + $1,17 shipping, arrived on 14 december.
> Also received my bluetooth module on the same day that was ordered on 27 nov.
> But since the pins are pretty hard to plug in, I can't see myself switching a lot. Got the nice grey-ish upgrade cable on it now. (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32831364422.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.eCPoyH)


That cable is great, it never tangles and looks good. If the "memory" wire section becomes uncomfy, is very easy to remove with a exacto and pliers.


----------



## Mellowship

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Whats an "answering machine"??


Something from the 80's to early 90's.


----------



## djmakemynight

OrenjiBageru said:


> Anyone knows how to open up and fix KZ ZS3. I was using the brand new KZ ZS3 for about an hour and then suddenly the right earpiece becomes broken, I want to know how to fix it.



@Slater 3 times and he will come to your house and make then better than ever.


----------



## Pruikki (Dec 15, 2017)

OrenjiBageru said:


> Anyone knows how to open up and fix KZ ZS3. I was using the brand new KZ ZS3 for about an hour and then suddenly the right earpiece becomes broken, I want to know how to fix it.


Same here!

i hope the second one i ordered wont be bad.
it seems that it will be bad too, same batch that gearbest has..


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 15, 2017)

djmakemynight said:


> @Slater 3 times and he will come to your house and make then better than ever.


BE CAREFUL what you wish for!....you say his name three times, he pops up with tiny screwdrivers and needle nose tweezers and headphones start FLYING apart!


----------



## jaydm99

Pruikki said:


> Same here!
> 
> i hope the second one i ordered wont be bad.
> it seems that it will be bad too, same batch that gearbest has..


When did you ordered your ZS3 from GB? I ordered an extra pair on October 4 but I sold it sealed last month, (Nov 10). I kinda regret it seeling now after these issues popping out.


----------



## djmakemynight

Cruelhand Luke said:


> BE CAREFUL what you wish for!....you say his name three times, he pops up with tiny screwdrivers and needle nose tweezers and headphones start FLYING apart!



Haha. I am good. Another member needs help with repairing his ZS3 though.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

djmakemynight said:


> Haha. I am good. Another member needs help with repairing his ZS3 though.


Did you know there is an IEM mod thread? It's dedicated to any and all IEM mods and is a great place to ask questions like this, because  I ASSURE you @Slater residence will be in residence there.  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-all-your-iem-mods-here.867486/#post-13915765


----------



## Pruikki

Jay Magaling said:


> When did you ordered your ZS3 from GB? I ordered an extra pair on October 4 but I sold it sealed last month, (Nov 10). I kinda regret it seeling now after these issues popping out.



ordered Nov 17
i go them week ago now.
i ordered another ZS3 hopin it will be not defective on on Dec 13,few days ago.

lets hope batch from dec 13 will be better.
(The ZS3 is amazing! very good seal for me and sound just feels right, i did not want to take them of, so i ended up listening whole Dire straits album in one go...
too bad they got defective and broke the very first day. 

(GB refunded me 5 usd, ordered another one straight away,with no insurance,that was my only mistake this time (no refunds if this is broke too)
Cheers!


----------



## jaydm99

Pruikki said:


> ordered Nov 17
> i go them week ago now.
> i ordered another ZS3 hopin it will be not defective on on Dec 13,few days ago.
> 
> ...


I'll wait for your order to arrive If it's all good then maybe I'll get another pair.


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> Nothing too fancy. An old 4556 opamp, Alps 10k pot, 4.7uf admission caps. And a virtual ground circuit, connected to 2 9v batts or a 24v DC transf. Like the Grado RA1. Or a hyped Cmoy...



COOL!!!


----------



## groucho69

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Whats an "answering machine"??



Like Siri but with better implementation.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 15, 2017)

razorpakk said:


> Bought them both less than two months ago from Aliexpress and Gearbest (I've actually gone through 3 different ATE and just bought 3 new pairs to gift them over christmas).
> 
> *I hear the ATR as slightly more balanced and narrower, but it's a really small difference.*


You, Sir, are totally correct imo! The difference is slightly enhanced with lower impedance cable.
I got my most recent ATE about 1 month ago and it looks like 5th gen still (I have opened it up, modded and finally removed drivers for another mod (ZS3 shells being used).
Not so sure but it seems that latest 5th gen batch has slightly larger nozzle inner diameter than before. Can`t confirm 100% cuz I`ve thrown away all my ATE shells from previous mods.
But it seems it translates into more similar sound to ATR which has different drivers.
But I still prefer ATE 5th gen from all DD KZs over others (in modified configuration).


----------



## Slater

Pruikki said:


> Same here!
> 
> i hope the second one i ordered wont be bad.
> it seems that it will be bad too, same batch that gearbest has..





djmakemynight said:


> Haha. I am good. Another member needs help with repairing his ZS3 though.





Pruikki said:


> ordered Nov 17
> i go them week ago now.
> i ordered another ZS3 hopin it will be not defective on on Dec 13,few days ago.
> 
> ...



The ones I ordered when they were on sale for $2.99 haven't arrived yet. If they die after I receive them, I'll open them up and try and find out what the problem is (and how to fix it). Could be as simple as a bad solder joint or loose wire.


----------



## OrenjiBageru

Slater said:


> The ones I ordered when they were on sale for $2.99 haven't arrived yet. If they die after I receive them, I'll open them up and try and find out what the problem is (and how to fix it). Could be as simple as a bad solder joint or loose wire.



Cool! I know this may be too much to ask, but it would be perfect you also make a video about it showing the problem and how to fix it


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> The ones I ordered when they were on sale for $2.99 haven't arrived yet. If they die after I receive them, I'll open them up and try and find out what the problem is (and how to fix it). Could be as simple as a bad solder joint or loose wire.


I ordered a pair the middle of last month from GearBest, been using them for a few weeks. Luckily, both sides are still at 100%...


----------



## djmakemynight

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Did you know there is an IEM mod thread? It's dedicated to any and all IEM mods and is a great place to ask questions like this, because  I ASSURE you @Slater residence will be in residence there.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-all-your-iem-mods-here.867486/#post-13915765



Thanks for the share bro. I am quite sure many would find it useful. Good stuff.


----------



## CoiL

Btw, got my ZS5 SPOFC cable from NiceHCK. For such price - unbeliveable quality! 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...ed-Plated-Silver-Cable-2-PIN/32738979652.html

Angled 2-pin ends + braided jack side cable + angled 90' jack - all as I like! 
I just hope this cable doesn`t turn green over time like my Tennmak upgrade cable (actually not silver plated) which I use with 4in1.
But I think this cable is real silver plating like my MMCX SPOFC cable from HCK which hasn`t turned green and looks same silverish.


----------



## Strat Rider (Dec 15, 2017)

Slater said:


> Well that’s not a good sign at all.
> 
> So it’s always the right earpiece that’s died on all of them? How odd...


 I received my ES3, and ZST order from GB last night, and the left earpiece in the ZST is very faint, not sure what to expect when i open them up. I will scour the threads, I would imagine @Slater has had something similar to the ZST open. 
The ES3 was an impulse buy, i will check them out this weekend.

Let the modding begin!


----------



## mbwilson111

This is the cable I have for my Green KZ ZS6. I like it.  Mine is the grey option.  It also comes in orange or gold (looks yellow).

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32822699895.html


----------



## TheVortex

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the cable I have for my Green KZ ZS6. I like it.  Mine is the grey option.  It also comes in orange or gold (looks yellow).
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32822699895.html




I ordered the same one and I still haven't received it yet from the 11:11 sale.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheVortex said:


> I ordered the same one and I still haven't received it yet from the 11:11 sale.



Mine was ordered October 30.  Not sure when it came.  I am waiting still for a bud from that store but not sure what that order date was.


----------



## CYoung234

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the cable I have for my Green KZ ZS6. I like it.  Mine is the grey option.  It also comes in orange or gold (looks yellow).



That looks nice. I am using this on my green ZS6 right now, but will probably switch it to my Red ones, which just arrived, courtesy of Azerbaijan Email - SLOW, but it got here!






I also have one of these, but have not tried it yet:






I will probably use this for my Green ZS6. I also have two more of these on order, most likely destined for my two ZS5 v1's!:


----------



## mbwilson111

CYoung234 said:


> I will probably use this for my Green ZS6. I also have two more of these on order, most likely destined for my two ZS5 v1's!:



I like the look of that one.  It will look good with any of the ZS6 colors.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

CoiL said:


> Btw, got my ZS5 SPOFC cable from NiceHCK. For such price - unbeliveable quality!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...ed-Plated-Silver-Cable-2-PIN/32738979652.html
> 
> Angled 2-pin ends + braided jack side cable + angled 90' jack - all as I like!
> ...



Pretty sure these turn green.

Mine has a hint of green even though I haven't used it for a few months.


----------



## mbwilson111

SomeTechNoob said:


> Pretty sure these turn green.
> 
> Mine has a hint of green even though I haven't used it for a few months.



If any of mine ever turn green I will be very upset.  How does it even happen?  There should not be any air or water getting to the actual wire.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Received two KZ ZS3's (One is for my bro) yesterday from Gearbest. One was kaput from the get-go. No sound on the right side. 
The other one is just out of the world. Three words to describe their sound: Bass, Mids and Fun. 
Also, they're the most tip sensitive IEM's I've heard. Become different IEM's altogether with different tips.

Few posts back, I've read there's a bad batch of ZS3's currently going on in Gearbest where the right side is always the one which is defective. Keeping all that in mind, what would you guys suggest me to do? Should I go for a replacement or refund?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

mbwilson111 said:


> If any of mine ever turn green I will be very upset.  How does it even happen?  There should not be any air or water getting to the actual wire.



Take it from slater himself.



Slater said:


> I wanted to let everyone know that my KZ-made silver plated upgrade cables on both my ZS3 and ZST are starting to turn green.
> 
> The ZS3 cable is about 6 months old, and the ZST one about 4 months old. The older one is definitely greener than the younger one though.
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> Mine have all turned green under the pvc.





Envinite said:


> In my case, KZ silver cable turned green within 3 months of usage. Somebody in headfi forum stated that this was because the moisture build up on the cable, exposed to heat for longer duration, and the PVC have chemical reaction with the copper/coating, yadda yadda..... and thus turned it green.
> 
> Could have been the case tho, because I usually make it wet by using it when riding my bike while raining, and I live in tropical area. Still, take this info with a grain of salt.
> 
> ...


----------



## TheVortex

mbwilson111 said:


> If any of mine ever turn green I will be very upset.  How does it even happen?  There should not be any air or water getting to the actual wire.



Both of my silver cables have turned green. One is for my ZST and the other is for my ZS5 and ZS6. Sound quality is the same.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheVortex said:


> Both of my silver cables have turned green. One is for my ZST and the other is for my ZS5 and ZS6. Sound quality is the same.



I know sound quality is the same but the looks are important to me as well.  not "just a minor aesthetic issue" to me.  Aesthetics are part of the experience.  Maybe its a "girl" thing but I bet there are guys who also care.


----------



## Saoshyant

@mbwilson111 From my experience, at this cost range, the green shift comes with the territory.  Perhaps there are exceptions, but it happens quite often from what I've seen.


----------



## TheVortex

The one on the left is much darker green in real life.


----------



## nkramer

did a double take.... silver turning green? what?

coper will oxidize to dull/dark then to the green/turquoise (think lady liberty)
silver will oxidize to dull then gradually get darker & darker until it's black

must be a chemical reaction between the jacket & the "silver" copper wire


----------



## mbwilson111

nkramer said:


> did a double take.... silver turning green? what?
> 
> coper will oxidize to dull/dark then to the green/turquoise (think lady liberty)
> silver will oxidize to dull then gradually get darker & darker until it's black
> ...



...and yet no one seems to talk about their copper cables going green...


----------



## nkramer

in most normal headphone wires the individual strands of copper are enameled (for insulation & avoid oxidation)

probably a combination of what/how they are silver plating the copper wire & the chemical makeup of the jacket making the reaction.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> If any of mine ever turn green I will be very upset.  How does it even happen?  There should not be any air or water getting to the actual wire.



Only if it a sealed vacuum


----------



## mbwilson111

Well I am going to be very unhappy when the ones I do have that are silver/white turn green.  @Slater will have to come to my house strip and polish all the wires with his little mini polisher and then re-coat them with some new coating that he will invent.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Well I am going to be very unhappy when the ones I do have that are silver/white turn green.  @Slater will have to come to my house strip and polish all the wires with his little mini polisher and then re-coat them with some new coating that he will invent.



Consider it done...


----------



## oyobass

This is kind of a normal thing, unfortunately. The heavy duty cable on an older pair of Ultimate Ears started turning green after a few months. Now that they are well over 10 years old, they look pretty awful. Replacements are pretty expensive too, compared to the much nicer KZ cables.


----------



## mbwilson111

oyobass said:


> This is kind of a normal thing, unfortunately. The heavy duty cable on an older pair of Ultimate Ears started turning green after a few months. Now that they are well over 10 years old, they look pretty awful. Replacements are pretty expensive too, compared to the much nicer KZ cables.



Some of the things I have with cables that could eventually turn green are attached.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 15, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Pretty sure these turn green.
> 
> Mine has a hint of green even though I haven't used it for a few months.


You have exactly same cable I linked?



Mr. Rattlehead said:


> _Bass, *Mids* and Fun. _
> Also, they're the most tip sensitive IEM's I've heard. Become different IEM's altogether with different tips.


I got mine from GB little time ago. No issues with my pair except uneven placement and shrinking of sound tubes.
And no way they have mids... pretty recessed imho. Tried some tip rolling too but not much difference (I have almost 50 different tips).


TheVortex said:


> The one on the left is much darker green in real life.


Well, the one I linked has no straight connectors. And the one on the right - does Yours have earguide wires?

Anyway, I hope it wont turn green. It does look and feel very nicely done. I guess that`s the thing with soft coating and braiding - not so air-tight covering.

The other MMCX SPOFC cable I have bought from HCK by MPS (logo on jack) is very good quality and about 6-7 months old, no signs of oxidization. Well, it was also 20$ more expensive than this 7$ cable I linked.
Also considerably stiffer coating material used, but still feels soft enough.


----------



## ru9

The element copper undergoes the process of oxidation, if it is exposed to air. Copper metal reacts with oxygen, resulting in the formation of copper oxide which appears green in colour. Copper does not react with water, the outer green layer formed after the oxidation of copper is known as a patina 

Unlike other destructive oxidation, the patina acts as a protective layer. This is the reason as to why copper is considered as an important metal, as it is resistant to corrosion. The patina prevents further corrosion of the copper beneath the oxidized layer.  http://www.theheadphonecompany.co.uk/news-reviews/blog/why-do-clear-earphone-cables-turn-green.php


----------



## CoiL (Dec 15, 2017)

We all know that. Just that, we are talking about silver plated copper cables and possible insulation material reaction.

Btw, anyone has this cable? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...l?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.14.1c9ab87ftHYsBj

Looks much better insulated/thicker coating but price is also much more. Wonder if it is same good quality as the MMCX cable by MPS I mentioned in previous post?


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Dec 15, 2017)

CoiL said:


> You have exactly same cable I linked?



So I just took my ZST Colorfuls out of storage(since I've been using my ZS5s exclusively for a few months now.

Before(early May 2017):


Spoiler












After(as of 5 minutes ago):


Spoiler











Keep in mind that these have been in storage since September '17.

I got mine for $5, but the straight and the angled one versions are basically the same.  Some newer ones have come out recently.  These models were the first version to come out and are the most common ones.

edit: spoilered pics for better viewability


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Strat Rider said:


> I received my ES3, and ZST order from GB last night, and the left earpiece in the ZST is very faint, not sure what to expect when i open them up. I will scour the threads, I would imagine @Slater has had something similar to the ZST open.
> The ES3 was an impulse buy, i will check them out this weekend.
> 
> Let the modding begin!


So far I think I like my ES3 the best out of all the KZs I ordered...enjoy! (they need to be amped btw)


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine was ordered October 30.  Not sure when it came.  I am waiting still for a bud from that store but not sure what that order date was.


You and I seem to have a similar style when it comes to these things...I order stuff, put it out of my mind ....then I'm pleasantly surprised when it shows up.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

mbwilson111 said:


> If any of mine ever turn green I will be very upset.  How does it even happen?  There should not be any air or water getting to the actual wire.


I have a set of Harmon Kardon Soundsticks II...they look F'ing AMAZING......and the wires turned green. If KZ IEM cables not exposed to sweat or the elements turn green...imagine how NOT exposed to sweat or the elements my computer speakers were!
It was a little disappointing....fortunately most of the visual appeal isn't in the wires but in the sub woofer and the satellite speakers


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

mbwilson111 said:


> Well I am going to be very unhappy when the ones I do have that are silver/white turn green.  @Slater will have to come to my house strip and polish all the wires with his little mini polisher and then re-coat them with some new coating that he will invent.


sure just invoke his name thrice, and he pops up and starts doing the flying splits and fixing things...there's a video of it around here somewhere...


----------



## HungryPanda

Just click your heels not once or twice , maybe just four times for luck but say what!!!!


----------



## Slater (Dec 16, 2017)

Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.

I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out or is overly large are a no-go, including things like KZ ZSx series, UiiSii CM5, Magaosi K5, Tiandirenhe TD08, Tinaudio T2, Rose IEMs, any IEM with silicone "ear wings", etc.

Once everything is healed up, I should be able to wear barrel type IEMs (KZ EDR1/2, EDSE, HDS2/3, maybe Xiaomi Pro HD or Piston, etc. And course any headphone is OK (on-ear or over-ear), which I have been using exclusively since the piercing.

I thought long and hard about the decision, and in the end the trade off of having less or no migraines is well worth not being able to wear a huge % of IEMs.

I’ll still be around plenty, maybe just not participating in IEM threads as much unless it’s an IEM I can wear (ie I can’t evaluate an IEM that I can’t physically fit lol).


----------



## TheVortex

CoiL said:


> You have exactly same cable I linked?
> 
> 
> I got mine from GB little time ago. No issues with my pair except uneven placement and shrinking of sound tubes.
> ...



Both of mine did have the earguide wires but removed them due to comfort issues. I am not that bothered about the green as they are so cheap to buy and I prefer them to the standard crappy KZ cable.

I have the fancy silver cable coming ( the one with the chrome ends with red and blue markings ) but not arrived yet, I also have ordered the copper looking cable and the grey ZS5/ZS6 upgrade cable with the transparent ends.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out, including things like KZ ZS-series for example.
> 
> ...



I had to google that.  Wow that looks painful.  I hope it works. I guess buds would be out as well.  When your ears feel better you should treat yourself to some comfy new headphones.


----------



## Slater (Dec 16, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> I had to google that.  Wow that looks painful.  I hope it works. I guess buds would be out as well.  When your ears feel better you should treat yourself to some comfy new headphones.



I’ve never pierced or tattooed anything on my body, so I had no idea what to expect. It hurt pretty bad while they were doing it (because apparently cartilage piercings hurt more than say your earlobes), but 15 minutes later it felt fine except minor soreness.

I can say with certainty that it hurt a heck of a lot less than the pain from a migraine (30+ years of weekly migraines, each lasting 1-2 days of feeling like your head is being crushed in a vice while simultaneously your eyeballs are being stomped on by an elephant).

And I haven’t had a single migraine since the piercing (knock on wood)!


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> I’ve never pierced or tattooed anything on my body, so I had no idea what to expect. It hurt pretty bad while they were doing it (because apparently cartilage piercings hurt more than say your earlobes), but 15 minutes later it felt fine except minor soreness.
> 
> I can say with certainty that it hurt a heck of a lot less than the pain from a migraine (30+ years of 1-3 days of feeling like your head and eyeballs are being crushed in a vice and repeatedly stomped on by an elephant).
> 
> And I haven’t had a single migraine since the piercing (knock on wood)!



Sorry to hear about that hope you get well soon.

Don't worry Slater, when the ZSR is available I will get on that ASAP!


----------



## HungryPanda

Slater said:


> Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out, including things like KZ ZS-series for example.
> 
> ...


Hope you heal up soon


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out, including things like KZ ZS-series for example.
> 
> ...



100% the right choice.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out or is overly large are a no-go, including things like KZ ZSx series, UiiSii CM5, Magaosi K5, Tiandirenhe TD08, Tinaudio T2, Rose IEMs, any IEM with silicone "ear wings", etc.
> 
> ...


I used to get migraines and they are truely aweful ...any relief you can get I'm glad for you. 
So.....now you'll probably want to send along all those useless IEMs to me so I can carry on the mantle of taking things apart and whatnot...should I just PM you my physical address?


----------



## mbwilson111

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I used to get migraines and they are truely aweful ...any relief you can get I'm glad for you.
> So.....now you'll probably want to send along all those useless IEMs to me so I can carry on the mantle of taking things apart and whatnot...should I just PM you my physical address?



Not so fast.... I bet in 6 months he will be able to wear them.


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I used to get migraines and they are truely aweful ...any relief you can get I'm glad for you.
> So.....now you'll probably want to send along all those useless IEMs to me so I can carry on the mantle of taking things apart and whatnot...should I just PM you my physical address?





mbwilson111 said:


> Not so fast.... I bet in 6 months he will be able to wear them.



Haha, we'll see how things go.


----------



## Saoshyant

Never had a headache except for bruises and such so cannot relate.  Worst I've had is shingles which for me at least felt like repeated stabbing, so if it's roughly equivalent on a pain scale I can sympathize.

Here's hoping it's a permanent fix


----------



## oyobass (Dec 16, 2017)

Slater said:


> Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out or is overly large are a no-go, including things like KZ ZSx series, UiiSii CM5, Magaosi K5, Tiandirenhe TD08, Tinaudio T2, Rose IEMs, any IEM with silicone "ear wings", etc.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your trouble with migraines. Thank you for all your many contributions to the IEM community. You are a legendary figure around here and will be missed.
I am very happy you have found relief for the headaches. Some of the migraine sufferers I know have become virtual hermits since developing them, including my sister.
Thanks again for your help and information. I have learned a lot from you.


----------



## Strat Rider

Cruelhand Luke said:


> So far I think I like my ES3 the best out of all the KZs I ordered...enjoy! (they need to be amped btw)


Thanks for that, i will be charging up my fiio to take a listen tomorrow.
I kind of put the zst on the side for now, seems like GB is catching up my orders from November. My envelope yesterday brought my ZS6, and a couple non KZ, my ears are in heaven.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 17, 2017)

Slater said:


> Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out or is overly large are a no-go, including things like KZ ZSx series, UiiSii CM5, Magaosi K5, Tiandirenhe TD08, Tinaudio T2, Rose IEMs, any IEM with silicone "ear wings", etc.
> 
> ...



Oh my... that`s why You haven`t posted Your mods on IEM mods thread. But You still can post the ones You have done previously!
Hope You heal fast and be able to wear any shape IEM again.

Btw, I`m kinda "out" also for a while because I have left ear infection from being ill.


----------



## wokashraf

sklchan said:


> Just received my ZS6 from GB, so far so good, like it a lots. Do some simple freq sweep through and it able to generate sound even as low as 10Hz then uptill ~13kHz (my old ears can't hear a thing after) LOL. And yes the "S" effect do obviously heard but I do recommend whoever owned this unit please take note to *disable all your EQ setting when using this earbuds* as most of the EQ profile (that ppls normally selected for their previous headphone) mostly "V" format to boost those old headphone which don't have specific BA for the high pitch and good DD for bass as after I turn off the EQ the "S" effect seem not too obvious or I can said just sufficient to get all the sound clarity without the obvious "S" effect. ZS6 really perform very good in the bass region even with a flat EQ.
> 
> Overall I'm very satisfy with the ZS6 and bang for buck for just USD19.99 from GB...


sorry but couldnt resist to ask..how did you get it for 19.99?..


----------



## myliferockkss

wokashraf said:


> sorry but couldnt resist to ask..how did you get it for 19.99?..


You can follow this thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/121...als-for-qcy-q29-pro-somic-g941.832367/page-68 , George from GB posts some crazy deals entire week


----------



## wokashraf

would like to know..my kz zs6 sound not balance between left and right..not sure if this was due to my ear?..but i need to move the EQ 1 step to the right for it to sound in the middle..if not..it sound like the it more louder on the left..maybe replacing the wire will solve this?


----------



## wokashraf

myliferockkss said:


> You can follow this thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1215th-12-16th-17：00-utc-8-superlux-hd668b-12-17th-17：00-utc-8-bluedio-t4s-effective-deals-for-qcy-q29-pro-somic-g941.832367/page-68 , George from GB posts some crazy deals entire week


thanks..but i already follow the thread and searching for coupon code..but none working..maybe im late..haha..but at 28.99 usd..still good value..will be quicker to grab the code next time...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

CoiL said:


> Oh my... that`s why You haven`t posted Your mods on IEM mods thread. But You still can post the ones You have done previously!
> Hope You heal fast and be able to wear any shape IEM again.
> 
> *Btw, I`m kinda "out" also for a while because I have left ear infection from being il*l.


Sorry to hear that. I've been dealing with the same thing the last few weeks, I was sick, then that turned into an ear infection....all of this happened _right _as all my KZs and Superluxes started showing up. I still have ringing and maybe 30% decreased hearing on the left side. It's been frustrating to not be able to really listen to my gear...I _think_ I need to put some foam in at least one of my BA drivers in my ZS5...but I can't be sure yet.
I have had to keep all of my impressions here of my new IEMs very vague.


----------



## groucho69

All these maladies striking down our brethren...it's a CONSPIRACY!


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> All these maladies striking down our brethren...it's a CONSPIRACY!


----------



## chinmie

wokashraf said:


> would like to know..my kz zs6 sound not balance between left and right..not sure if this was due to my ear?..but i need to move the EQ 1 step to the right for it to sound in the middle..if not..it sound like the it more louder on the left..maybe replacing the wire will solve this?



Try wearing them reversed (left to right, right to left). If the louder on still on the left ear, then it's your ear. If it moves to the right, then the z6 has channel imbalance


----------



## Paulo099

Has anyone tried the KZ LP5? I'm interested in buying it but I've only seen one review of it. It would help if you could give some impressions or reviews of it.


----------



## wokashraf

chinmie said:


> Try wearing them reversed (left to right, right to left). If the louder on still on the left ear, then it's your ear. If it moves to the right, then the z6 has channel imbalance


thanks..already done it..the problem come from z6...


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> Folks, I wanted to let you know that I’m going to be a lot less active with regards to IEMs for the foreseeable future.
> 
> I got both ears pierced with Daith piercings last week ago to relieve regular migraine headaches I’ve had since childhood. Besides taking a while to heal up, the piercings severely limit the type of IEMs and earbuds I can wear. Anything “ergonomic” that fills the ear is out or is overly large are a no-go, including things like KZ ZSx series, UiiSii CM5, Magaosi K5, Tiandirenhe TD08, Tinaudio T2, Rose IEMs, any IEM with silicone "ear wings", etc.
> 
> ...


health first. time to enjoy a good pair of cans. hope you heal up soon.


----------



## MasterDomino

Soo i already received my ED9 and now waiting for KR25D, ZS3(waiting till they arrive) and i also bought ES3, currently thinking about buying ZST, also i dont have any amps/dacs soo i cant get everything out of those xD


----------



## Mellowship

KZ Silver cable turning green already... ☹️ Only 7 months...


----------



## skajohyros

ZS6 just arrived. Some sssssss and piercing highs. Guess it's mod time.


----------



## groucho69

skajohyros said:


> ZS6 just arrived. Some sssssss and piercing highs. Guess it's mod time.



Foam tips


----------



## Aevum

The KZ-ZS6 are unusable with silicon, the red bee tips from gearbest work decently to attenuate them.

As for them being uneven, when i got my KZ-ZS5 i immidiatly discarded them becuase the left side was significantly quieter then the right, good thing i tried other tips, it was the default silicons that came with them, they were defective, with complies they were more or less balanced.


----------



## ivo001

I tryed to put foam tips on my ZS5 yesterday, but they were falling off even when I tried to insert the earplugs. And when I managed to keep it on, it stayed behind in my ear after removing the ZS5.
I used these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...32548926787.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.PHrhXE
Are they not suitable for the ZS5?
I still got these on the way from Gearbest, but will probably take a month still before they arrive:
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_661820.html?wid=21


----------



## maxxevv

These in T400 bore size work really well : (you need to know what size S/M/L fits you best)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-p...32836885897.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5kdVxz

Though personally I like these better:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-P...32838430008.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5kdVxz


----------



## CoiL

I always find weird that ppl recommend foam tips for every user without asking if person even likes to use foams (in-out using habits, too much fitting trouble etc.). Not to bash foams but there are many who don`t use them and kinda "hate" foams.


----------



## pringles147

Take a look at this video. 
A little trick that will make your headphones sound better by opening them up in the back.
I tried with my KZ ZS3 and it really changed for the better.
Not 6x better like he said but maybe 1.6x better  
Definitely noticeable.


----------



## bsoplinger

ivo001 said:


> I tryed to put foam tips on my ZS5 yesterday, but they were falling off even when I tried to insert the earplugs. And when I managed to keep it on, it stayed behind in my ear after removing the ZS5…


I suggest this seller from AliExpress. I use the T300 size which has a nozzle diameter of 4.5mm instead of the more standard T400 / T500 4.9mm size. The seller also has T200 which has a 4.0mm nozzle size. The ZS6 are even worse in terms of foam tips because the nozzle has even less, as in none, of a lip to keep tips on. The seller offers smaller quantities at a higher per pair price and is really good about providing the mixture you want. So you could get the 10 pair listing and ask for 3 each S and L and 4 M and they'd do it. Or half black and half grey.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...-earphones-enhanced-bass-Ear/32741636522.html


----------



## ivo001

bsoplinger said:


> I suggest this seller from AliExpress. I use the T300 size which has a nozzle diameter of 4.5mm instead of the more standard T400 / T500 4.9mm size. The seller also has T200 which has a 4.0mm nozzle size. The ZS6 are even worse in terms of foam tips because the nozzle has even less, as in none, of a lip to keep tips on. The seller offers smaller quantities at a higher per pair price and is really good about providing the mixture you want. So you could get the 10 pair listing and ask for 3 each S and L and 4 M and they'd do it. Or half black and half grey.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20-...-earphones-enhanced-bass-Ear/32741636522.html



I found the same seller also sells them per pair for just $0,88.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...286.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.1fcf77f1D3xAAn
Ordered 1 T300 Gray M and 1 T400 Blue M.


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> I always find weird that ppl recommend foam tips for every user without asking if person even likes to use foams (in-out using habits, too much fitting trouble etc.). Not to bash foams but there are many who don`t use them and kinda "hate" foams.



Right, I personally can't stand foams. Out of the 3 dozen or so iem's I own not one has foams, have a bag full if anyone wants them

Little recent KZ Porn for everyone


----------



## mbwilson111

Aevum said:


> The KZ-ZS6 are unusable with silicon, the red bee tips from gearbest work decently to attenuate them.





CoiL said:


> I always find weird that ppl recommend foam tips for every user without asking if person even likes to use foams (in-out using habits, too much fitting trouble etc.). Not to bash foams but there are many who don`t use them and kinda "hate" foams.





Podster said:


> Right, I personally can't stand foams. Out of the 3 dozen or so iem's I own not one has foams



First, I personally find the ZS6 very enjoyable with the silicone starline tips that came with them.  I cannot stand the foam tips.  I can't even stand to touch them... hate the feeling of them.  Out of the 3 dozen or so IEMs that I own, none of mine have foams on them either.  Many have starlines.  I do change tips on different ones for various reasons...sometimes to get a better seal, sometimes for looks.  But they are all always silicone.


----------



## Podster (Dec 19, 2017)

mbwilson111 said:


> First, I personally find the ZS6 very enjoyable with the silicone starline tips that came with them.  I cannot stand the foam tips.  I can't even stand to touch them... hate the feeling of them.  Out of the 3 dozen or so IEMs that I own, none of mine have foams on them either.  Many have starlines.  I do change tips on different ones for various reasons...sometimes to get a better seal, sometimes for looks.  But they are all always silicone.



Well it's really a personal thing foamies and I don't have issue with those that like them they are just not my cup of tea. I do test out many silicon tips and although I prefer Auvio's they don't work with every iem. Some work best with starlines or red cores, just have to roll'em to you get the best results


----------



## antdroid

pringles147 said:


> Take a look at this video.
> A little trick that will make your headphones sound better by opening them up in the back.
> I tried with my KZ ZS3 and it really changed for the better.
> Not 6x better like he said but maybe 1.6x better
> Definitely noticeable.




I'd probably recommend wearing safety glasses and a clamp to hold the earphone while taking a dremel to it. I want to keep my eyes and fingers.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Podster said:


> Right, I personally can't stand foams. Out of the 3 dozen or so iem's I own not one has foams, have a bag full if anyone wants them
> 
> Little recent KZ Porn for everyone


I'll go ahead and take all those foam tips off your hands, because I'm nice like that...


----------



## bsoplinger

I really like foamies for comfort since there's something about silicone tips that bothers my skin / ear canals after a few hours of wear. My problem is that I can't get a decent seal with them. I've tried all sorts of sizes. The only thing that's worked is to use those long orange ear plugs, the disposable throw away ones, and punch a hole in the middle. Those give a seal that's good enough to get bass. Very frustrating. 

@Slater suggested a different seller that has the crazy cheap foamies that come without the nozzle tube. You combine the cheap foamie with a cheap silicone tip. I get a great comfortable fit with that combo and it doesn't bother me as much as the heavier, better quality silicone tips. After a bit of a problem figuring out how to get the nozzle of the silicone tip inside the nozzle hole of the cheap foamie the first time I've gotten very good at combining the pair. So its another option for folks like me that have fitment issues with 'normal' tips.


----------



## Ynot1

What the what?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xma...en-or-blue-20-99.832367/page-69#post-13925190


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I'd like some opinions...what genre of music are ZS5 V2 owners partial to for theirs? 
here's why I ask: I got ZS5 thinking they would be my IEM to fill the role of my Fidelios ....but, I like my ES3 for that and the ZS5s I am REALLY liking for hip hop. 
Dp y'all have a favorite genre for the ZS5? For me, ZS5+Fiio A3 bass boost, then EQ the treble down a bit and I like them for hip hop the same way I like the Akai 50X.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 19, 2017)

I think I am going to do a little tape on the bass port to see if they can dig a little deeper without needing the bass boost and then maybe jam some foam into one or both of the BAs to roll off the treble without needing to be so aggressive with the EQ....
now we're having fun....
EDIT....to not thank @Slater was downright rude of me. I just realized, I have read your threads so much that without having to do any kind of search, I already had plenty of good ideas as to what would remedy the few quibbles I have with them so far...also props to @oyobass, in addition to the @Slater mods, I have the reversed foam tip funkiness to thank you for...and....
 I WILL NOT SPEAK HIS NAME A THIRD TIME! nice try buddy, you aren't popping up in my house with your teeny tiny screwdrivers for fingers! I'll tear apart and fix my own headphones!


----------



## RomStar

Just got the Zst upgrade cable for my Zs5

And as most suggested, I did cut off the plastic tab to get a nice fit..... But here's the thing, now there's a gap which bothers me

I wish I didn't buy them, cuz a week or so after buying these, the Zs5 compatible ones came out (go figures)

Now here's the question: Do I keep it as it is? Are there risks of the thing just breaking due to the gap and me losing my precious precious Zs5 v1 (which can't be replaced). Or am I all good? I am all ears if I can somehow patch things up


----------



## skajohyros

groucho69 said:


> Foam tips


Foams do tame the sibilance and highs but they also slightly veil the rest of the sound.
ATM I still find that the zs5 v1 does everything a bit better.


----------



## Slater (Dec 20, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Just got the Zst upgrade cable for my Zs5
> 
> And as most suggested, I did cut off the plastic tab to get a nice fit..... But here's the thing, now there's a gap which bothers me
> 
> ...



Hmmm, I have a number of ZS5 and ZS6 with the braided cable, and they are all totally flush once you cut off the plastic.

Are you sure you got all of the plastic? It’s easy to miss some, especially in the middle between the two pins. Since the plastic is clear, it can be difficult to see. All it would take is a tiny “tit” of plastic around the edge of the pins or in between them to prevent it from sitting flush.

I’ve found that an xacto hobby knife does the best job, because it’s sharp enough to easily cut between the pins to make sure you got everything.

I can post photos if you’re unsure of what I’m talking about.

P.S. - To anyone attempting this, be sure to permanently mark the plug somehow before trimming off the plastic. Otherwise, it’s impossible to know which direction the pins go (and you could easily end up out of phase).


----------



## Slater (Dec 20, 2017)

skajohyros said:


> Foams do tame the sibilance and highs but they also slightly veil the rest of the sound.
> ATM I still find that the zs5 v1 does everything a bit better.



Agreed. The sheer number of people that were desperately trying to obtain the last few ZS5 v1 as the v2 was being rolled out should say it all.

I wish KZ would revise the ZS6 (ie ZS6 v2) and put the BA drivers exactly like they had it in the ZS5 v1. They could easily do this, as the plastic insert in the ZS6 has the spot for the ultra high-frequency BA driver.

And as the person/people who physically removed the 2nd BA driver from the ZS5 v2 nozzle has said, the nozzle space opened up by the removal of 1xBA also allows more sound from the dynamic drivers through.


----------



## RomStar

@Slater thanks for the reply, I was quite scared of using any means of force on the Zs5, since I couldn't purchase the V1 incase it broke

I did bite the bullet and just applied as much force as it needed. It was a bit scary, but it did end up sitting flush


Now over all, these cables are so so much nicer Imo. I love how it tangles a lot less than the older cable, and no ugly green spots 

 
Not sure if it's placebo or not, but I feel like it sounds a bit louder or clearer with these cables. I'll hold of any rash conclusions, and use this for a week or so before I make any comments. All in all, it's a steal for the price
 

(old cables are super green, it's more noticeable in real life)


----------



## skajohyros

Slater said:


> Agreed. The sheer number of people that were desperately trying to obtain the last few ZS5 v1 as the v2 was being rolled out should say it all.
> 
> I wish KZ would revise the ZS6 (ie ZS6 v2) and put the BA drivers exactly like they had it in the ZS5 v1. They could easily do this, as the plastic insert in the ZS6 has the spot for the ultra high-frequency BA driver.
> 
> ...


----------



## Slater

skajohyros said:


> I will try putting one of the BA out of its misery.



Good luck friend.

Perhaps this will help you: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1623#post-13816536

@AudioObsession offered to help if you have any questions.


----------



## Podster (Dec 20, 2017)

RomStar said:


> Just got the Zst upgrade cable for my Zs5
> 
> And as most suggested, I did cut off the plastic tab to get a nice fit..... But here's the thing, now there's a gap which bothers me
> 
> ...



I can understand saving a buck and doing this mod but you can/could have just bought the Type "A" of the Tri-Braid cable that fits the ZS5 and 6's just like the original Tri-Braid fits the ZST's. All those Tri-Braid cables on my photo (last page) of ZS series are specifically for those iem's, my fat fingers could destroy a $9 cable in a second so I just bought new type "A" for my ZS5/6's However all my surgeries went well as far as removing the ear wires

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...32838766604.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.RsoxsF

@Cruelhand Luke , drop me a pm and next week when I'm off I'll send you a foamy care package


----------



## RomStar

Podster said:


> I can understand saving a buck and doing this mod but you can/could have just bought the Type "A" of the Tri-Braid cable that fits the ZS5 and 6's just like the original Tri-Braid fits the ZST's. All those Tri-Braid cables on my photo (last page) of ZS series are specifically for those iem's, my fat fingers could destroy a $9 cable in a second so I just bought new type "A" for my ZS5/6's However all my surgeries went well as far as removing the ear wires
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...32838766604.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.RsoxsF
> 
> @Cruelhand Luke , drop me a pm and next week when I'm off I'll send you a foamy care package


Wow dude, I need foamies as well.... I'll pay for shipping!

But yea, I bought the cable like 1.5 months ago, there was no Type A back then as far as I know. I wasn't a fan of the original spc cable, and the Zst one looked much nicer, so when I found out ppl were using it, I jumped on it

Thankfully, it all worked out. But im still eyeing you're Foamies


----------



## Podster

Yeah, I missed that part in your first post (sorry). Long as you are still in phase and happy with the results stick with it, I was just thinking with how much you love your ZS5's I'd buy a type "A" cable. Not knowing the longevity of these cables yet and knowing cables do tend to be the first thing to crap out I might consider a backup cable

You might have a chat with Cruel and he may be willing to share in which case you would pm me too


----------



## B9Scrambler

I had pretty low expectations for the KZ bluetooth module going in, but it's pretty good! Connection is stable, it's got lots of driving power, and the battery life is acceptable. Detail takes a hit vs. wired use, but what you get is still more than acceptable. The delay when watching videos is weird, as they're in sync for the first minute or so, then it falls a second or so behind. Really odd.

But yeah, for music it's just fine.


----------



## ivo001

Shipping foamies from Middle Earth can't be cheap though, because the Hobbit Express takes a while.


----------



## ivo001

B9Scrambler said:


> I had pretty low expectations for the KZ bluetooth module going in, but it's pretty good! Connection is stable, it's got lots of driving power, and the battery life is acceptable. Detail takes a hit vs. wired use, but what you get is still more than acceptable. The delay when watching videos is weird, as they're in sync for the first minute or so, then it falls a second or so behind. Really odd.
> 
> But yeah, for music it's just fine.



I got the bluetooth module for my ZS5, but haven't used it yet, because I found it quite a struggle to get the 2 pin connectors attached, so kinda hesitant to unplug my upgrade cable atm ha.
Has anybody used these KZ Bluetooth cables during sport/gym? How do they cope with sweat?


----------



## Podster

ivo001 said:


> Shipping foamies from Middle Earth can't be cheap though, because the Hobbit Express takes a while.



We can use the invisible cloak method, the nice thing about foamies is you can send them via letter


----------



## ivo001 (Dec 20, 2017)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I'd like some opinions...what genre of music are ZS5 V2 owners partial to for theirs?
> here's why I ask: I got ZS5 thinking they would be my IEM to fill the role of my Fidelios ....but, I like my ES3 for that and the ZS5s I am REALLY liking for hip hop.
> Dp y'all have a favorite genre for the ZS5? For me, ZS5+Fiio A3 bass boost, then EQ the treble down a bit and I like them for hip hop the same way I like the Akai 50X.



I like listening to Progressive or Symphonic Metal:


----------



## oyobass

ivo001 said:


> I like listening to Progressive or Symphonic Metal:



I had never heard of Lunatica before. Thanks for the video! 
I prefer the DT track on my ZS3s followed by ZS6, then ZS5 v1 with tape mod.
Lunatica track- ZS6, ZS3 then ZS5 in order of preference.
Not quite the order I had expected, but it is what it is at this moment. Next week it may be different, due to the effects of brain burn-in and/or the bad cold I'm finally getting over.
Little discoveries are what make the pursuit of audio so much fun. Big discoveries too, but those don't happen as often...


----------



## oyobass (Dec 20, 2017)

Just got my new "silver" cable in from Gearbest:


https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html

This is the link I used, don't know if you'll get the old silver cable or the one I got, either is an okay deal at $5.99
Pleasantly surprised that I have the more deluxe grey/black cable with the heavier-duty braided main cable.

I added the collar clip and velcro chin slider...


----------



## Podster

oyobass said:


> Just got my new "silver" cable in from Gearbest:
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html
> 
> This is the link I used, don't know if you'll get the old silver cable or the one I got, either is an okay deal at $5.99
> ...



That's a good cable, I use it on my Black 6's. I can't really hear a difference in this or the Tri-Braid and they are both good looking, these are some of the longest cables I own for sure






However like the Tri-Braid's I did surgically remove that ear wire  Pesky little devils


----------



## oyobass

Podster said:


> That's a good cable, I use it on my Black 6's. I can't really hear a difference in this or the Tri-Braid and they are both good looking, these are some of the longest cables I own for sure
> 
> 
> 
> However like the Tri-Braid's I did surgically remove that ear wire  Pesky little devils


I really _like_ those ear wires. Keeps the earphone in the proper general area when the large foamie turned backwards isn't enough to keep it in place.
I have big ear apertures, I guess...


----------



## Pruikki

oyobass said:


> Just got my new "silver" cable in from Gearbest:
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html
> 
> This is the link I used, don't know if you'll get the old silver cable or the one I got, either is an okay deal at $5.99
> ...




I GOT THE "SILVER" cable too! was brown just like that, GB gave me few points when i bugged the about it.
í wonder why, and if its even the same?


----------



## Pruikki




----------



## williamclarkonet

just received a pair of KZ ZSE and am a little disappointed i thought with dual dynamic drivers i would get good bass but it seems to struggle i will play with the eq


----------



## oyobass (Dec 20, 2017)

Pruikki said:


>


Mine is far from being the stock cable, it is far more flexible and less microphonic. More like an upgrade from the basic silver replacement 'upgrade' cable.
Edit: It shouldn't show the inevitable and dreaded green corrosion nearly as much, either.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Podster said:


> I can understand saving a buck and doing this mod but you can/could have just bought the Type "A" of the Tri-Braid cable that fits the ZS5 and 6's just like the original Tri-Braid fits the ZST's. All those Tri-Braid cables on my photo (last page) of ZS series are specifically for those iem's, my fat fingers could destroy a $9 cable in a second so I just bought new type "A" for my ZS5/6's However all my surgeries went well as far as removing the ear wires
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...32838766604.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.RsoxsF
> 
> @Cruelhand Luke , drop me a pm and next week when I'm off I'll send you a foamy care package


Thanks! I was (half) joking, but I will gratefully accept...


----------



## Slater (Dec 20, 2017)

Pruikki said:


>



That's actually considered an upgrade cable. The "stock" replacement cable is not braided at all - it's 100% black, like this:



That upgrade cable they accidentally sent you is actually quite nice. It's silver plated OFC copper, braided, with a transparent brown/grey insulation.


----------



## Slater

williamclarkonet said:


> just received a pair of KZ ZSE and am a little disappointed i thought with dual dynamic drivers i would get good bass but it seems to struggle i will play with the eq



What source are you using?


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> What source are you using?


cowon iaudio 9+


----------



## Slater

williamclarkonet said:


> cowon iaudio 9+



I can't find any specs on that, but try the ZSE with another source (other than a PC/laptop), and try it with an amplifier as well.

It has quite a lot of bass, so the issue could be your iaudio. It's also easy to get a poor ear seal, which will severely reduce bass. So try it with some different styles of tips to see if you can get a better seal and better sound.


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> I can't find any specs on that, but try the ZSE with another source (other than a PC/laptop), and try it with an amplifier as well.
> 
> It has quite a lot of bass, so the issue could be your iaudio. It's also easy to get a poor ear seal, which will severely reduce bass. So try it with some different styles of tips to see if you can get a better seal and better sound.


ok i will try those tips


----------



## nkramer

been playing with a pair of ZST for a couple weeks now... pulled out the memory wire today.

i like them better, a lot less microphonics with the memory wire removed. it may just be me, but it was difficult to get the memory wires to really hug my ears, usually they just held the wire just off the back of my ears enough to act like a springboard.... 

with the memory wire pulled out, the cord lays tighter/closer to the top curve of the ears and really reduces the microphonics of the stock silicone-ish cable.


----------



## ivo001

I'm happy with my ZS5 
This sounds wondeful with them.


----------



## skajohyros

ivo001 said:


> I'm happy with my ZS5
> This sounds wondeful with them.



V1 or V2 ?


----------



## ivo001

skajohyros said:


> V1 or V2 ?



99% sure i got v2. ordered 8 nov at gearbest


----------



## TimOgawa

wanna ask a question, Is the ZS-6 worth buying? I'm a ZS5v1 and ZST user


----------



## HungryPanda

TimOgawa said:


> wanna ask a question, Is the ZS-6 worth buying? I'm a ZS5v1 and ZST user


In a word....... Yes


----------



## Podster

TimOgawa said:


> wanna ask a question, Is the ZS-6 worth buying? I'm a ZS5v1 and ZST user



Hey Tim, I back the Panda on this one My order of preference is ZS6, T & 5V1 but we all hear them a little differently

Tim


----------



## TheVortex (Dec 21, 2017)

Finally arrived from the 11:11 event




2 x KZT 2 pins ( chrome tip with the red and blue indicators ) as I will mod one of them to fit my ZS5 or ZS6, KZ MMCX connectors to try on my **** UEs, grey ZS5/ZS6 cable and in the box should be the copper looking upgrade cable for my ZST.


----------



## oyobass

TimOgawa said:


> wanna ask a question, Is the ZS-6 worth buying? I'm a ZS5v1 and ZST user


Third vote to add to Panda and Podster. 

ZS6 is now my go-to for most circumstances. Much easier to drive than my ZS5 v1 with the pedestrian source gear I own, with less recessed mids and better sub-bass.

2nd go-to is the ZS3, believe it or not. Less treble-centric sound signature is a nice change of pace from more recent KZs and better isolation makes it good for areas with high ambient noise.

ZS5 v1 is the go-to for music broadcasts on Periscope or Facebook Live. They give that uncanny "in the room with the performer" feel I can't get with any of my other earphones or headphones.


----------



## Wiljen

TheVortex said:


> Finally arrived from the 11:11 event
> 
> 
> 
> 2 x KZT 2 pins ( chrome tip with the red and blue indicators ) as I will mod one of them to fit my ZS5 or ZS6, KZ MMCX connectors to try on my **** UEs, grey ZS5/ZS6 cable and in the box should be the copper looking upgrade cable for my ZST.



Those look awfully familiar.    I bought several awhile back from the same vendor.  Be prepared for them to be solid green within 3 to 6 months if they are like mine.


----------



## TheVortex

Wiljen said:


> Those look awfully familiar.    I bought several awhile back from the same vendor.  Be prepared for them to be solid green within 3 to 6 months if they are like mine.



The normal silver upgrade cables I have for both the ZST and the ZS5/ZS6 have gone green, especially the ZS5/ZS6 one which is the one I have owned the least.


----------



## Saoshyant

Green you say?


----------



## bsoplinger

Saoshyant said:


> Green you say?


Yeah that cable turned really green


----------



## TheVortex

Looking good so far, I just had to trim off the useless memory wire and the clear film.

 

Got plenty more snipping to do for all the other cables. This cable looks the same as the normal silver upgrade cable so without a doubt it will be green soon.


----------



## vladstef

This thread has turned into green cable showroom. Even more expensive cables are prone to this, nothing much can be done really. I've posted these pics months ago but appears to be relevant again, here is a Shure transparent cable (around 30$ officially) after 1 year of regular usage, 1 - 2 hours a day on average.



Sad, it really ruined the otherwise clean look. The point is, if you want to avoid this, get non-transparent cables.


----------



## williamclarkonet

i want to get either the the ZST or the ES3 which one has better bass?


----------



## williamclarkonet

does the cable turning green effect the performance?


----------



## TheVortex

williamclarkonet said:


> i want to get either the the ZST or the ES3 which one has better bass?



The ES3 is the darker sounding twin of the ZST. The ES3 is not as bright sounding as the ZST.


----------



## TheVortex

williamclarkonet said:


> does the cable turning green effect the performance?



Makes no difference to the sound quality.


----------



## skajohyros

TimOgawa said:


> wanna ask a question, Is the ZS-6 worth buying? I'm a ZS5v1 and ZST user


Zs5 is more balanced, which I prefer. Zs6 has more bass but I find this unbalances the sound plus they can be quite sibilant.
I would like to transplant zs5 into zs6 shell. Love child with fantastic looks and sound.


----------



## oyobass

Saoshyant said:


> Green you say?


Wow, what a beautiful shade of green, especially with the light behind it.

I guess you have a beautiful photo of an ugly problem...


----------



## HungryPanda

oyobass said:


> Wow, what a beautiful shade of green, especially with the light behind it.
> 
> I guess you have a beautiful photo of an ugly problem...


I have always found beauty in the most ugliest of places


----------



## oyobass

HungryPanda said:


> I have always found beauty in the most ugliest of places


I do too- every time I look in the mirror...


----------



## Saoshyant

Never thought it was an ugly problem, thought it added character.  Plus, where would I find a perfect VE Zen 1 these days?


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> Never thought it was an ugly problem, thought it added character.  Plus, where would I find a perfect VE Zen 1 these days?



If any of mine turn green I won't be able to use them.  Aesthetics's affect the overall experience for me.  Yes, I know I am a weird person.  I like it like that...lol.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> If any of mine turn green I won't be able to use them.  Aesthetics's affect the overall experience for me.  Yes, I know I am a weird person.  I like it like that...lol.



Never accept the status quo...except for the band.


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> If any of mine turn green I won't be able to use them.  Aesthetics's affect the overall experience for me.  Yes, I know I am a weird person.  I like it like that...lol.



I guess I'd rather enjoy myself than let something like a little green be an issue.  And as you're also into earbuds, my CampFred 1 is turning green as well.  Worst comes to worst, maybe a cable sheath can solve the issue for you?


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> I guess I'd rather enjoy myself than let something like a little green be an issue.  And as you're also into earbuds, my CampFred 1 is turning green as well.  Worst comes to worst, maybe a cable sheath can solve the issue for you?



Tomorrow I will see how many cables I have that could turn green. Not any of my KZ one.  It might just be a couple of buds like my PK2.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

mbwilson111 said:


> If any of mine turn green I won't be able to use them.  Aesthetics's affect the overall experience for me.  Yes, I know I am a weird person.  I like it like that...lol.


In the event of your cables turning green I would like to offer my services to give a new home to your unwanted garbage cables...because as always, I'm nice like that.


----------



## mbwilson111

Cruelhand Luke said:


> In the event of your cables turning green I would like to offer my services to give a new home to your unwanted garbage cables...because as always, I'm nice like that.



Yes, I have noticed that you are nice like that.  The cables in question are not detachable so you would be stuck with whatever is attached to them.

Maybe I could paint them


----------



## bsoplinger

What I find interesting is that I'm close to positive that the green color is caused by copper. Which begs the question "pure silver cable?" From how much green there is I'm guessing at best its an extremely thin layer of silver over copper wire. Of course at the price it sure can't be pure silver either, but that's just getting too science-y


----------



## HiFiChris

Saoshyant said:


> Green you say?



Are you Lex Luthor?


----------



## ivo001

Think I got the Head-fi sickness now.
Just ordered the ZS3 for $5, even though I only have 2 ears and already received ZST and ZS5 last month.


----------



## Pruikki

ivo001 said:


> Think I got the Head-fi sickness now.
> Just ordered the ZS3 for $5, even though I only have 2 ears and already received ZST and ZS5 last month.



Same,ordered ZS3 just now for 5€ with shipping.(points used)

if i like earbuds i keep em,if i dont i sell em or Gift to someone. Thus no need for thinking if its a waste or not 
ATR i like, ATE is no problems too, ZS3 i liked the best, soon ill have the ES3 too.

*Q:Should i do a open back for ATR? like a small hole to have bigger vent?*
Cheers!


----------



## groucho69

ivo001 said:


> Think I got the Head-fi sickness now.
> Just ordered the ZS3 for $5, even though I only have 2 ears and already received ZST and ZS5 last month.



That is just a very MILD strain.


----------



## oyobass

Saoshyant said:


> Never thought it was an ugly problem, thought it added character.





ivo001 said:


> Think I got the Head-fi sickness now.
> Just ordered the ZS3 for $5, even though I only have 2 ears and already received ZST and ZS5 last month.


I'm very pleased with the sound of my ZS3s. They could be a little more comfortable (I must have a weird ear shape, most people seem to find them very comfy), but the sound is worth the discomfort!

Give them a good test, quite a few people lately report having one earphone lose volume or stop working after a short time. Mine are still going strong, even though they were purchased recently...


----------



## ivo001

oyobass said:


> I'm very pleased with the sound of my ZS3s. They could be a little more comfortable (I must have a weird ear shape, most people seem to find them very comfy), but the sound is worth the discomfort!
> 
> Give them a good test, quite a few people lately report having one earphone lose volume or stop working after a short time. Mine are still going strong, even though they were purchased recently...


You preferred the zs3 over your tape modded zs5v1 on both the Lunatica and Dream Theater track I posted, so I figured I had to give them a try.
However i'm not sure how a zs5v1 tape mod stacks up against my zs5v2.


----------



## oyobass

ivo001 said:


> You preferred the zs3 over your tape modded zs5v1 on both the Lunatica and Dream Theater track I posted, so I figured I had to give them a try.
> However i'm not sure how a zs5v1 tape mod stacks up against my zs5v2.


For $5, even if you find them to be utter trash, you won't lose much. You can pay more than that for a set of eartips...


----------



## Willber

Pruikki said:


> if i like earbuds i keep em,if i dont i sell em or Gift to someone.


Ahem, this is an IEM thread, budget earbuds are thissaway: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/


----------



## NeonHD

So unfortunately my KZ ED9 broke today....







Welp I knew that this day would come but didn't figure it would be so early 

Oh well, guess I gotta go buy a second pair then!!


----------



## B9Scrambler

NeonHD said:


> So unfortunately my KZ ED9 broke today....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you just superglue that back in place or is the cable damaged too? Either way, a bummer.


----------



## NeonHD

B9Scrambler said:


> Can you just superglue that back in place or is the cable damaged too? Either way, a bummer.



Yeah the cable inside the housing is damaged as there's no sound coming from this ear piece, probably due to all the pulling.


----------



## B9Scrambler

NeonHD said:


> Yeah the cable inside the housing is damaged as there's no sound coming from this ear piece, probably due to all the pulling.



Dang. I'm sorry for your loss


----------



## bsoplinger

NeonHD said:


> So unfortunately my KZ ED9 broke today....
> …
> Oh well, guess I gotta go buy a second pair then!!


Good news, flash sale @ Gearbest, $10


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> What I find interesting is that I'm close to positive that the green color is caused by copper. Which begs the question "pure silver cable?" From how much green there is I'm guessing at best its an extremely thin layer of silver over copper wire. Of course at the price it sure can't be pure silver either, but that's just getting too science-y


SPC = Silver plated copper


----------



## Pruikki

Willber said:


> Ahem, this is an IEM thread, budget earbuds are thissaway: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/


 Yes, i mean IEMs, i see i used wrong words. "i cant brain today, i has the dumb"


----------



## Willber

Pruikki said:


> Yes, i mean IEMs, i see i used wrong words. "i cant brain today, i has the dumb"


No problem, it's an easy mistake to make.
But if you are interested in earbuds there are some great bargains in the link I posted.


----------



## robervaul

ZS10 (1DD + 4BA) prototype


----------



## TheVortex

robervaul said:


> ZS10 (1DD + 4BA) prototype



Where did you find these images?


----------



## robervaul

TheVortex said:


> Where did you find these images?


Hill audio FB and KZ confirmed too


----------



## TheVortex

robervaul said:


> Hill audio FB and KZ confirmed too



Just saw it on the Hill Audio FB. Looks like the ZST shell with a 2 pin. Looks like a lot of components inside with a large circuit board or crossover.


----------



## Strat Rider

Reading about pesky ear wire removal. Anyone have experience who wear prescription glasses?


----------



## TheVortex

Strat Rider said:


> Reading about pesky ear wire removal. Anyone have experience who wear prescription glasses?



I wear glasses and I have removed the pesky ear wire from all of my KZ cables. The wire is thin so it may make no difference to you.


----------



## Strat Rider (Dec 23, 2017)

groucho69 said:


> Never accept the status quo...except for the band.


Ah yes I remember "pictures of matchstick men"  on the radio..... Dam I'm old


----------



## groucho69

Strat Rider said:


> Ah yes I remember "pictures of matchstick men"  on the radio..... Dam I'm old



Still on tour  https://www.facebook.com/StatusQuoOfficial


----------



## RomStar (Dec 24, 2017)

To all the head-fi.org memebers here,

I would like to wish you all a merry Christmas and a Happy new year

It's been my honor to be here and learn so much from the people I have interacted (and not interacted with). It's always a pleasure to wake up, read 5-6 odd pages worth of quirk, knowledge and a hint of drama at times

I do hope you all stay well, safe and healthy. After all, I can only thank you all so much, for getting me into this hobby. Where my wallet cries, and my heart screams in joy

To all here, let's end this year on a high note and brace the coming year and all the surprises it may hold,

Your's Sincerely
RomStar.


----------



## Pruikki

robervaul said:


> ZS10 (1DD + 4BA) prototype


Straight From ZS6 to 10... Kz did the apple/microsofts,lets skip some numbers  ,just kidding.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Pruikki said:


> Straight From ZS6 to 10... Kz did the apple/microsofts,lets skip some numbers  ,just kidding.


ZTE came out with the Axon, then the Axon Pro, then naturally the Axon 7... 
it was a _coincidence_ that the Iphone 7 and the Galaxy S7 were being released the same year...


----------



## Willber

Pruikki said:


> Straight From ZS6 to 10... Kz did the apple/microsofts,lets skip some numbers  ,just kidding.


I've never understood KZ's naming system.Then again, they are not the only ones. This is the washing machine I am thinking of buying:
*Bosch WAB24161GB*
What?


----------



## Superluc

Dunno if someone post it already but:

https://aliexpress.com/store/produc...108.1000016.1.2815fc77fNAvhE&isOrigTitle=true

KZ release three pair of ZST with different painting.


----------



## oyobass

Superluc said:


> Dunno if someone post it already but:
> 
> https://aliexpress.com/store/produc...108.1000016.1.2815fc77fNAvhE&isOrigTitle=true
> 
> KZ release three pair of ZST with different painting.


Too cool. Looks high-dollar custom.


----------



## DeltaRay

Merry Christmas!! Managed to snag a zs5v1 from a reseller for a friend's xmas gift. Truly boiled down to being able to distinguishing when it was bought to the type of packaging with the help of this thread! So thank you for the collective knowledge here!


----------



## myliferockkss (Dec 25, 2017)

Has any one tried to remove the memory steel wire from the ZS5 cable?

The wire can be completely snagged out or should I just cut it?

I don't like the way they fit... I have ZST and they are much more comfortable without the steel wire...

@TheVortex


----------



## vector84

myliferockkss said:


> Has any one tried to remove the memory steel wire from the ZS5 cable?
> 
> The wire can be completely snagged out or should I just cut it?[/USER]


The memory wire can be slipped out without cutting it on KZ's upgrade cables, but thus far I've had to just cut/break away the stock cable ones.
(though personally, I've taken to actually leaving about 1/4 inch of wire and shrink tubing to give some strain relief)


----------



## toddy0191

myliferockkss said:


> Has any one tried to remove the memory steel wire from the ZS5 cable?
> 
> The wire can be completely snagged out or should I just cut it?
> 
> ...


Move it around in a circular motion and it will just pop out


----------



## Selenium

I really love the ZS6. Pretty much everything about it. Has to be one of the best values in IEMs out there currently.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I got 4 KZs for Christmas! ....well, I bought them for myself, and they have been trickling in over the last few weeks, so...it's not quite as surprising as that first statement would lead you to believe....
But still it's fun. I did a simple cosmetic mod on my ES3 this morning. I am not a fan of branding in general, and the writing on the sides of the ES3 is kind of confusing and silly (does the thing in my ear look like it says SEX in a fancyfont?) |
So I took some 1,500 grit sand paper to them


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 25, 2017)

here's the final product...it doesn't show up well, but it has a satin finish, not mottled like the picture seems to show...it's the angle of the picture that makes it look uneven


----------



## Strat Rider

It is a fun way to make sure you get your Christmas wish granted.
I actually did the same thing, since my birthday is near the holiday, I combined my "self shopping".
I also just received ZST, and ES3, along with ZS6.
I am interested in your take on the ZST vs ES3 sound comparison. This is my first listen with either of these.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Strat Rider said:


> It is a fun way to make sure you get your Christmas wish granted.
> I actually did the same thing, since my birthday is near the holiday, I combined my "self shopping".
> I also just received ZST, and ES3, along with ZS6.
> I am interested in your take on the ZST vs ES3 sound comparison. This is my first listen with either of these.


I too am curious about that! I haven't received my ZST yet, it got hung up at Gearbest. I included a 'mystery bag' and the item in the mystery bag was out of stock...I don't know why they didn't just put a _different_ mystery item in there, but whatever...the system glitched and so my item got delayed...I made 6 orders, all with coupons,I sort of crossed my fingers and figured SOMETHING would get messed up... only one of them had an issue, and it was easily fixed. Gearbest and George were really responsive...the system needs a little work, but overall, I'm really pleased. I am looking forward to hearing ES3 vs ZST...my next order will have a splitter so I can a/b them and a hard case, that I forgot to get the first time around. I have some foam tips coming at some point from another user here and then I will be able to better compare all my new KZs.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke




----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I really like my ES3 out of the three I have so far... I think they look cool too. It has sort of a 'pro' look...compared to a lot of IEMs out there, ESPECIALLY when you consider the price point of these ($10-$12) they look like they are something a musician uses, you can't just pick a set of these up at Walmart or Bestbuy...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I found a new storage solution for my IEMs...I had some art supplies in the closet, including a couple of VERY nice sets of pastels that came in a sort of jewelry box with shallow drawers and a lot of foam padding. I took the unopened box and set aside the pastels and as you can see they fit 2 sets of IEM per drawer. As a bonus I got some more acoustic foam! The liners in the box I am going to try out as treble filters in the cups of some of my brighter headphones and possibly as BA nozzle filters.


----------



## Strat Rider

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I really like my ES3 out of the three I have so far... I think they look cool too. It has sort of a 'pro' look...compared to a lot of IEMs out there, ESPECIALLY when you consider the price point of these ($10-$12) they look like they are something a musician uses, you can't just pick a set of these up at Walmart or Bestbuy...


I have been giving my ES3 a good listen today, and so far pretty surprised at the sound per dollar performance. Much clearer highs and mids than I anticipated. Once these gems are "broken in" I think the bottom end will surprise me just as much. Been listening mainly to jazz.
My ZST are less impressive, but I found that the left ear has significantly less loudness. I was listening to Google play music on my Huawei tablet, and the sound was really annoying. When I changed my settings to mono, the issue appears to be a possible blockage. Volume is about 25% lower in the left ear. I'll pull the grill and see whats up, but I am going to order another ZST, impressions I have read are much better than even what I hear from my right ear.


----------



## myliferockkss

toddy0191 said:


> Move it around in a circular motion and it will just pop out



Thanks that helped


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Merry X-Mas. Has anybody tried spinfits for KZ6? Shall I get CP100 or 800?


----------



## CoiL

Just popping by... ZSR out already?

I`m still in trouble with my left ear infection ;(


----------



## thebigredpolos

CoiL said:


> Just popping by... ZSR out already?
> 
> I`m still in trouble with my left ear infection ;(


Looks like they're listed on GearBest now (only 2 of the 4 colors at the moment), but George mentioned in another thread that there was going to be a discount on 1/1, so it might be worth waiting a few days.  https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1512918.html


----------



## bsoplinger (Dec 26, 2017)

thebigredpolos said:


> Looks like they're listed on GearBest now (only 2 of the 4 colors at the moment), but George mentioned in another thread that there was going to be a discount on 1/1, so it might be worth waiting a few days.  https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1512918.html


Especially since the Gearbest listing has them shipping between Jan 1 and Jan 2. So you can order them now and wait for them to ship or wait until before they're supposed to ship and see if they're on sale.

Also to be fair George-gearbest only said 2 things about them. They would be exclusive to Gearbest from 1/1 to 1/15 and that of course they would have price promotions for them. He didn't actually say that there would be a promo code for them on 1/1


----------



## williamclarkonet

There is that booming bass i was looking for i finally received my KZ ZS3 from greabest and wow does it have good bass. I have bought alot of KZ headphones looking for that real punchy bass and i found it in the ZS3!!!!


----------



## williamclarkonet

Slater said:


> Hey, to those with the ZS3. I found a new mod tonight.
> 
> It has been previously posted by a few people that removing the red screen on the very end of the nozzle affects the sound. Removing it reduces the bass quantity slightly (while simultaneously removing the muddiness), and also improves the midrange.
> 
> ...


just applied the Slater mod i listenend to my ZS3 before and after the mod and love the bass even more after the mod thanks slater!


----------



## NeonHD

Dumb question, but is the shell of the ZS5 not made of aluminum metal? Always thought it looked like anodized aluminum until I read that the material was ABS on a spec sheet.


----------



## oyobass

ABS with a matte metallic paint. Looks pretty good though, eh?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

NeonHD said:


> Dumb question, but is the shell of the ZS5 not made of aluminum metal? Always thought it looked like anodized aluminum until I read that the material was ABS on a spec sheet.



Yup, plastic with a metallic paint job.  IMO it's obviously plastic IRL.

Still waiting on my pair from 11/11 lol


----------



## myliferockkss (Dec 27, 2017)

Highly impressed by the KZ Bluetooth cable... had ordered for my friends ZS5 but it pairs good with my ZST...

1s audio lag is present for vids...

I wish the controller could trigger google assistant.... any work around for that?

UPDATE: Power button + Vol up triggers Assistant


----------



## NeonHD (Dec 27, 2017)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Yup, plastic with a metallic paint job.  IMO it's obviously plastic IRL.
> 
> Still waiting on my pair from 11/11 lol



Damn, honestly wished it was metal lol, I think the ZS6 has a metal casing though which is nice.

Holy bleep speaking of the ZS6, I found one selling for super cheap on eBay ($21), which is pretty awesome cause the ZS5 costs just about that much.

Here's the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS6-Min...-Song-Switching-In-Ear-Earphones/282772233409

I was actually just about to buy the ZS5 but guess I gotta reconsider that again....


----------



## jaydm99

NeonHD said:


> Damn, honestly wished it was metal lol, I think the ZS6 has a metal casing though which is nice.
> 
> Holy bleep speaking of the ZS6, I found one selling for super cheap on eBay ($21), which is pretty awesome cause the ZS5 costs just about that much.
> 
> ...



Well, **** my life.


----------



## pringles147

Just wanted to give an update on my purchase. I bought this bluetooth adapter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/new...32839613373.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7yW0fV
Shipping took about two weeks from China to Thailand.
The sound is great, battery life better than the cheaper bluetooth adapter, used it for about 5 hours today youtubeing and netflixing.
Small case was included which is appreciated. No lag at all during videos which is great.
However when watching Netflix and youtube through the app on ios-devices there is always some audio-delay. Watching in Safari works great though. 
Really recommends them. Only downside is that the battery indicator on iPhone/iPad is misleading. 
It showed 90% for 3 hours straight. Then dropped to 50%. 30 min later it was 30% and then it died immediatly.
Heard a low-battery-warning about 30 sec before it died. So that part is just like the old adapter.


----------



## Mariusik

Jay Magaling said:


> Well, **** my life.


You can follow the discount codes Gearbest thread, they ship worlwide and saw some good deals on the ZS6 (19$ the last time as i recall) ,now they are 30$, but what intrigues me are the new ZSR, at 27$ discounted.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/122...-69-99-mi-bluetooth-4-0-speaker-29-99.832367/


----------



## Selenium

$30 for the ZS6 is still a really awesome deal IMO. So much bangs.


----------



## bsoplinger

Selenium said:


> $30 for the ZS6 is still a really awesome deal IMO. So much bangs.


It is a decent price but if you're willing to wait the Gearbest thread has deal prices on either the ZS5 or ZS6 every other week or more frequently. Usually under $25 for the ZS6.


----------



## Mellowship

ZS5 does sound warmer sometimes.


----------



## Jack-A (Dec 28, 2017)

Finally got my ZS6 that I ordered in November. Cost me about 22 dollars on Gearbest. I'm gonna compare it to the ZST since I've had them almost a year. The instrument separation is on a whole another level, highs are more crisp, mids and bass are not muddy like they are on ZST. I was afraid that the bulky design is gonna give me comfort issues but to my surprise they fit much better than the ZST. They don't fall off my ears and doesn't cause any pain. I think they fit better because the nozzle is much shorter.  And now to the negative part - they are horrible treble cannons straight outta box. The S's and cymbals are so harsh that I cannot listen to them. But I'm optimistic because my Xiaomi Hybrid PRO HD's(the more rounded, triple driver version) were pretty siblant too at the first. Couple of nights of pink noise cured that for me.

The manual says something about burn-in too but I really can't understand that horrible English :-D 5 minutes on medium volume? Any song? Really?


----------



## EISENbricher

Jack-A said:


> Finally got my ZS6 that I ordered in November. Cost me about 22 dollars on Gearbest. I'm gonna compare it to the ZST since I've had them almoust a year. The instrument separation is on a whole another level, highs are more crisp, mids and bass is not muddy like they are on ZST. I was afraid that the bulky design is gonna give me comfort issues but for my surprise they fit much better than the ZST. They don't fall off my ears and doesn't cause any pain. I think they fit so much better because the nozzle is much shorter than on the ZST. And now to the negative part - they are horrible treble cannons straight outta box. The S's and gimbals are so harsh that I cannot listen them. But I'm optimistic because my Xiaomi Hybrid PRO HD's(the more rounded, triple driver version) were pretty siblant too at the first. Couple of nights of pink noise cured that for me.
> 
> The manual says something about burn-in too but I really can't understand that horrible English :-D 5 minutes on medium volume? Any song? Really?


Same happened with my ZS5, treble cannon at start but I let it burn for 40Hrs with 1More Assistant app and now they sound totally different. I like them now.


----------



## Selenium

bsoplinger said:


> It is a decent price but if you're willing to wait the Gearbest thread has deal prices on either the ZS5 or ZS6 every other week or more frequently. Usually under $25 for the ZS6.



Even if there were never sales I would consider $30 to be a damn good price in relation to the SQ and build you get.

So, yeah.


----------



## stryed

EISENbricher said:


> Same happened with my ZS5, treble cannon at start but I let it burn for 40Hrs with 1More Assistant app and now they sound totally different. I like them now.



Same here. I started EQing less and less as time went on. They sound fine to me now without EQ after 1-2months of use.


----------



## oyobass (Dec 27, 2017)

Jack-A said:


> 5 minutes on medium volume? Any song? Really?


My thought is that the first 5 minutes of burn-in out of the box makes the most dramatic difference. The rest is your ears and brain getting used to the sound signature a little bit at a time.
Just my opinion, after seeing response graphs earlier on this thread of a ZS6 after an hour of use compared to quite a few hours later- no change in response.

I still burn in my new earphones anyway out of habit, because it won't hurt anything and may help in some unquantifiable way...


----------



## SiggyFraud

Can you guys tell me if it's possible to find new KZ ZS5 v1 with a single driver in the nozzle? I've been looking for a pair for a while now without much luck. The seller claims these to be v1, but how can I be sure?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Org...Earphones-FOUR-Dynamic-Noise/32813807055.html


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Speaking of burn in, my ES3 improved over time. I forgot to burn them in and so for the the first few times I tried them they sounded harsh and brittle just straight out of my phone, they really NEEDED to be amped more to sound good. So much so that I was a little worried I was only going to be happy using them with my Fiio A3, which isn't always my first choice...I mean, I use IEMs for their superior portability and convenience, which is negated somewhat if I have to use the amp with them. 
Fortunately as I have put more hours on them they have broken in and actually sound good straight out of my phone.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Dec 27, 2017)

I find it interesting to show my KZ ZS5 to people not into headphones and see what they think of them...I think my favorite response so far was a friend of mine at work, as I was putting them on I said check out my new headphones, and he said, "what are those for, robots? You ordering your crap from the future now?"
I took that as a compliment.


----------



## Jasyu

Got my kz zs6 for a month been running it for a while. However the treble is really too sharp for my liking compare to zs5. I had to use treble reducer on my iPhone to even use it. Anyone has any modification done to reduce the treble. Or do I have a faulty set.


----------



## Ab10

Did anyone get this product? - According to description 4 BA and 2 Dynamic !!

Is this a new product from KZ ?

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1512920.html


----------



## HungryPanda

One dynamic and two ba in each side not available yet


----------



## Jasyu (Dec 28, 2017)

Got my kz zs6 for a month been running it for a while. However the treble is really too sharp for my liking compare to zs5. Anyone got the same issue any tips to modify it.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Jasyu said:


> Got my kz zs6 for a month been running it for a while. However the treble is really too sharp for my liking compare to zs5. Anyone got the same issue any tips to modify it.



Foam T400 tips


----------



## Vin$ent

HungryPanda said:


> One dynamic and two ba in each side not available yet



Mic version seems to be?


----------



## Pruikki (Dec 28, 2017)

FOR ZS6 USERS and others

-*Sibilant and treble too much?*  Buy new Bee tips from ebay or so. The big silicone tips are good in my case.

-*Get better tips such as* https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Bee-Me...hash=item3f8b9f227b:m:m_VFisNJ9pxfecJLYC7d1Dg
and enjoy better sound. (Gives better seal,as KZ tips tend to be quite thin,but these fix that)

Poll: _What powers your IEMs?_
-In my case i use, ZTE Axon 7 with asahi kasei DAC in it,drives KZ IEMs very well!

Cheers!


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Pruikki said:


> FOR ZS6 USERS and others
> 
> -*Sibilant and treble too much?*  Buy new Bee tips from ebay or so. The big silicone tips are good in my case.


Yes, they help but not so much. I've ordered spinfits. When they come I'll inform you about the outcome.


----------



## Pruikki

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Yes, they help but not so much. I've ordered spinfits. When they come I'll inform you about the outcome.


yes please.


----------



## skajohyros

Jasyu said:


> Got my kz zs6 for a month been running it for a while. However the treble is really too sharp for my liking compare to zs5. Anyone got the same issue any tips to modify it.


Open the nozzle, put a tiny drop of glue or something similar to block one of the BA. This helped but it is still sibilant. It might be enough for you. I find foam tips veil the sound a bit. Still enjoy my zs5 v1 more though.


----------



## Slater

Jasyu said:


> Got my kz zs6 for a month been running it for a while. However the treble is really too sharp for my liking compare to zs5. Anyone got the same issue any tips to modify it.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1673#post-13851098
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## myliferockkss

Has any one tested if the bluetooth cable actually supports AptX?

performed some tests on my phone and I believe it doesn't support it... maybe that is the reason why there is some audio lag in vids


----------



## TheVortex

myliferockkss said:


> Has any one tested if the bluetooth cable actually supports AptX?
> 
> performed some tests on my phone and I believe it doesn't support it... maybe that is the reason why there is some audio lag in vids



The early versions of it are supposed to support it, it was dropped when they revised the circuitry.


----------



## bsoplinger

TheVortex said:


> The early versions of it are supposed to support it, it was dropped when they revised the circuitry.


So to make sure that I understand, they changed the circuitry to remove a feature? One that was pretty much specifically designed just for the purpose of their product? Reducing lag in wireless sound?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

My new cable still advertises aptx though


----------



## Toastybob

myliferockkss said:


> Has any one tested if the bluetooth cable actually supports AptX?
> 
> performed some tests on my phone and I believe it doesn't support it... maybe that is the reason why there is some audio lag in vids


Aptx isn't supposed to eliminate lag. That's Aptx-LL, which I've never seen the KZ Bluetooth cables advertised as having.


----------



## TheVortex

bsoplinger said:


> So to make sure that I understand, they changed the circuitry to remove a feature? One that was pretty much specifically designed just for the purpose of their product? Reducing lag in wireless sound?



From what I read is that the early versions had it and was bluetooth 4.1 but had atrocious battery life, so they re-designed it for better battery life but removed the AptX. No idea if the bluetooth 4.1 or 4.2 ( revised model ) have any lag differences.

I own the revised version but I don't own any AptX compatible devices but for the price I can't really fault it apart from the slight lag with youtube.


----------



## TheVortex

SomeTechNoob said:


> My new cable still advertises aptx though



In the earlier batches of the revised 4.2 version, they had the packaging and instructions of the 4.1 model. This may be the case with yours.


----------



## NeonHD

Just ordered the red ZS6 today. Is the treble really that unbearable compared to other "notorious" ear-piercing Chi-fi IEMs like the Seahf AWK-009? I also read on the aproear website that the soundstage isn't that spacious compared to the ZS5, and if it's true then I think I kinda regret buying them as I was hoping to get an even wider and deeper soundstage, similar to or better than my ED9.


----------



## HungryPanda

I prefer zs6 over zs5, it is a much better Earphone


----------



## skajohyros

NeonHD said:


> Just ordered the red ZS6 today. Is the treble really that unbearable compared to other "notorious" ear-piercing Chi-fi IEMs like the Seahf AWK-009? I also read on the aproear website that the soundstage isn't that spacious compared to the ZS5, and if it's true then I think I kinda regret buying them as I was hoping to get an even wider and deeper soundstage, similar to or better than my ED9.



Zs5 v1 has better soundstage than zs6.


----------



## HungryPanda

But the ZS6 are much more expressive


----------



## NeonHD

skajohyros said:


> Zs5 v1 has better soundstage than zs6.



Marginally better or there's a big difference?


----------



## NeonHD

HungryPanda said:


> But the ZS6 are much more expressive



It seems that the prices are running pretty low right now, I just bought them knowing that they were $1 cheaper than the cheapest KZ ZS5 listing on eBay.


----------



## NeonHD

P.S. If treble ever does become an issue on the ZS6, I'll just stick a tiny piece of foam (possibly from the ED9 or Sony MH1C foam filters) in each of the BA nozzles, just like what slater did to the ZST.


----------



## skajohyros

NeonHD said:


> Marginally better or there's a big difference?


To me there is a big difference and that is why I enjoy them more. Mind you the zs6 are not bad after the BA mod.


----------



## CoiL

ZSR will probably be my last KZ IEM if it gets on sale. Only getting it because of green shells, for modding.
I`m heading into "next league" with iBasso IT01 (blue&red) being first one. We`ll see how my departure from KZ will be... maybe returning back if I get disappointed in ~100$ IEMs, LOL 

Atm, still having problems with my left ear and will enjoy ZS5v1 until next leap.


----------



## Ynot1

Anyone see similarities between zs3 and it04. For the record zs3 came out first.


----------



## stryed

I really like my KZ ZS5 v2 and don't hear the harshness that some people have been complaining about anymore (it took 2 months). My go to when I'm out while my newly bought IT01 stays at home (my precious).
The ZS6 do loook gorgeous though but the reported diminished soundstage and the KZ, keep my impulse to buy in check!


----------



## Vin$ent

Am I missing something or why isn't anyone buying the ZSR? Too expensive? Like 3 black ones sold in the past 24h.


----------



## CoiL

stryed said:


> I really like my KZ ZS5 v2 and don't hear the harshness that some people have been complaining about anymore (it took 2 months). My go to when I'm out while my newly bought IT01 stays at home (my precious).
> The ZS6 do loook gorgeous though but the reported diminished soundstage and the KZ, keep my impulse to buy in check!



Just curious - how is the ZS5v2 soundstage size (especially frontal depth) compared to IT01 ?


----------



## stryed

CoiL said:


> ZSR will probably be my last KZ IEM if it gets on sale. Only getting it because of green shells, for modding.
> I`m heading into "next league" with iBasso IT01 (blue&red) being first one. We`ll see how my departure from KZ will be... maybe returning back if I get disappointed in ~100$ IEMs, LOL
> 
> Atm, still having problems with my left ear and will enjoy ZS5v1 until next leap.


I ust did that  Worth it! But not a huge jump...more resolution, seperation and sub bass but in terms of value the KZ5 hits hard (and so does the IT01).


----------



## jaydm99 (Dec 29, 2017)

Vin$ent said:


> Am I missing something or why isn't anyone buying the ZSR? Too expensive? Like 3 black ones sold in the past 24h.


Maybe because of the promo starting on Jan15


----------



## stryed (Dec 29, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Just curious - how is the ZS5v2 soundstage size (especially frontal depth) compared to IT01 ?



Similar. I haven't A/B them for that particular spec yet but so far nothing noticeable in that area. Soundstage is one of KZ ZS5's strong suits. Resolution/timbre and subass and seperation are better on the IT01 but I wouldn't know how to quantify that.

I'm still in between 50-100hrs burn in, but I doubt it will affect soundstage (tighten bass and decrease treble peak perhaps).


----------



## CoiL

Thanks for answering! 

Btw, what source gear and (if any) amping do You use? 

I really love my ZS5v1 soundstage and mids when paired with low output impedance and slightly warmish source + little amping.

Btw, looks like ZSR is available now!


----------



## stryed (Dec 29, 2017)

CoiL said:


> Thanks for answering!
> 
> Btw, what source gear and (if any) amping do You use?
> 
> ...



No amp. Just a surface pro 4 and a Lumia 1020. Seems enough but eyeing the fiio Q1, although I'm not sure there will be a worth while difference. I bought these because they were easy to drive.

I'm not sure what you meant by "frontal depth" by the way, but it definitely has finer layering (vertical depth?). The seperation/imaging makes describing soundstage difficult for me. In terms of width, I'd say there isn't a immediate difference...

The major difference would be the sub bass, and the lack of simbilance. Even though you hear the SsssS of a vocalist or cymbal, they won't sound wrong. KZ5 can be annoying for that on some tracks or version of tracks, but in general I'm not that treble sensitive (although simbilance was there during the first month)

If hesitating, go for the IT01 or the CH9T from pioneer. I had several on my list and narrowed it down to these two for "musicality".


----------



## snip3r77

CoiL said:


> Thanks for answering!
> 
> Btw, what source gear and (if any) amping do You use?
> 
> ...


Does zxr follow the zs5 sq? Hot treble ?


----------



## Selenium

snip3r77 said:


> Does zxr follow the zs5 sq? Hot treble ?



I don't think anyone knows yet.


----------



## Superluc

It may be interesting to see how the ZSR perform on mids. 

The ZS6 is tuned for use the BAs only on higher frequency, instead the ZSR, if what is inscribed on the gearbest's page of them is true, use the dynamic for the bass, leaving mids and highs to the two BAs.


----------



## Ynot1

I'm getting mixed signals.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/122...smz658-bluedio-h.832367/page-71#post-13939180


----------



## Superluc

Ynot1 said:


> I'm getting mixed signals.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/122...smz658-bluedio-h.832367/page-71#post-13939180


It's an error, just see the promotional images.


----------



## Ynot1

Conventionally promo material has more words. But we're talking George here. And all things considered it's a tough call. Do you believe more words versus George's word? It's like popularity is made fact. But, graphic arts can be produced pretty fast. And while George has been known to make frequent typo graphical errors on headfi, I'm pretty sure George knows the difference between ba iron drivers and dd moving coil drivers. But at the end of the day I can wait. I can not deny the picture is shaking my confidence in George.


----------



## Superluc

Ynot1 said:


> Conventionally promo material has more words. But we're talking George here. And all things considered it's a tough call. Do you believe more words versus George's word? It's like popularity is made fact. But, graphic arts can be produced pretty fast. And while George has been known to make frequent typo graphical errors on headfi, I'm pretty sure George knows the difference between ba iron drivers and dd moving coil drivers. But at the end of the day I can wait. I can not deny the picture is shaking my confidence in George.


We are not talking about "words" only here. You can see the second BA yourself, in that image and a lot more.

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1512917.html?wid=21 just scroll and see.


----------



## hakuzen

Beware.
When calculating total cost of Gearbest prices to compare with other shops' cost, don't forget to add shipping insurance costs.
Gearbest DOESN'T guarantee full refund for both unregistered/registered packages if you don't pay insurance costs.
They offer me $80 refund for a lost registered package of $250+.
So be warned.


----------



## Ynot1

Sorry to hear about that. I'll keep that in mind, thank you for sharing.


----------



## oyobass

hakuzen said:


> Beware.
> When calculating total cost of Gearbest prices to compare with other shops' cost, don't forget to add shipping insurance costs.
> Gearbest DOESN'T guarantee full refund for both unregistered/registered packages if you don't pay insurance costs.
> They offer me $80 refund for a lost registered package of $250+.
> So be warned.


I figure I can take a loss on single small items. When the total gets higher, I buy the insurance and tracked shipping. Even with the fees involved, most of the time it''s still a bargain price.


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> I figure I can take a loss on single small items. When the total gets higher, I buy the insurance and tracked shipping. Even with the fees involved, most of the time it''s still a bargain price.



Same here.

$3.99 KZ IEM? Who cares.
$399 quadcopter? Uhh, yeah definitely.


----------



## hoerlurar

hakuzen said:


> Beware.
> When calculating total cost of Gearbest prices to compare with other shops' cost, don't forget to add shipping insurance costs.
> Gearbest DOESN'T guarantee full refund for both unregistered/registered packages if you don't pay insurance costs.
> They offer me $80 refund for a lost registered package of $250+.
> So be warned.



Paypal protection?


----------



## groucho69

hoerlurar said:


> Paypal protection?



That was my thought as well.


----------



## sashka

From what I've gathered, KZ connectors are not standard ones, are they? Have anyone discovered a source to buy them if I want to make my own wires? I'd actually need both - male and female connectors for my little project idea. Appreciate any tips.


----------



## oyobass

sashka said:


> From what I've gathered, KZ connectors are not standard ones, are they? Have anyone discovered a source to buy them if I want to make my own wires? I'd actually need both - male and female connectors for my little project idea. Appreciate any tips.


Same connectors as old Ultimate Ears IEMs, at least the KZ cables fit my UE 3s...


----------



## NeonHD

Happy new year guys!!! 

Hope 2018 will bless us with even more budget Chi-fi and awesome IEMs from KZ


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 1, 2018)

wish i had paid with paypal, but used credit card this time. my bad.
never got lost package issues before with gearbest, but wish i had used shipping insurance (about $7) for this big order. my bad again.
thanks for the heads up.
this won't happen anymore, because i'll pay a bit more for getting stuff in other chinese shops which provide quite better aftersale service (fasttech, for example, ebay, and many shops in aliexpress). i'll use gearbest in the future only for real bargains.

btw, happy new year to all


----------



## Makahl (Jan 1, 2018)

I remember seeing something similar some time ago in this thread but I gave this method a chance today:



Wow! ZST fits like a glove now. My left ear canal is slightly smaller so I needed to adjust every time the fit otherwise it'd sound muffed/blocked but now fitting is excellent. Also, I've covered the nozzle with a damping material (silica gel bag fabric) and now 0 problems regarding sibilance.

Oh.. Btw, I liked the result using Comply T-400 as @Francisk has suggested many times but the durability and price is a deal breaker for me (maybe because I've been using ZST as workout IEM) so I'll stick with this Sugru + damping solution.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Someone should warn you before you get into KZs that you are going to have to STORE these things or they will become a tangly desktop nightmare...and cases are fine and all for travel, but you can't SEE the IEMs....
so I got these at the dollar store....

 
and then did this:


----------



## TLDRonin

Can't wait to see reviews roll in for the ZSR


----------



## TLDRonin

Jay Magaling said:


> Maybe because of the promo starting on Jan15


What promo?


----------



## HungryPanda

Gearbest will have a promo


----------



## Selenium

I might pick up the ZSR. KZ stuff just tends to punch so far above its price point, I doubt I won't be getting my money's worth.


----------



## CoiL

Soundwise - I already see ZSR as "fail" because both BAs in nozzle in front of driver (blocking sound of DD)  ...but I still want the shells, LOL


----------



## paulindss

CoiL said:


> Soundwise - I already see ZSR as "fail" because both BAs in nozzle in front of driver (blocking sound of DD)  ...but I still want the shells, LOL



Those 2 ba's in the noozzle also bothers me, i am skeptical.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Soundwise - I already see ZSR as "fail" because both BAs in nozzle in front of driver (blocking sound of DD)  ...but I still want the shells, LOL



In other words, a ZST with an additional BA in the nozzle (like the ZST needs to be any brighter LOL).

Doesn't make any sense to me, but until the ZSR starts shipping and people report in, it's anyone's guess as to what it sounds like. I have my suspicions though...


----------



## bsoplinger

I expect that it'll sound much like the ZS6, from mids through highs at least. I'm guessing the same xover with just one dynamic driver to fill in everything below instead of a pair like the ZS6. Its a shame because the initial ZS5 seemed like a step in a good sounding direction and subsequent steps have been for the worse.


----------



## snip3r77

Selenium said:


> I might pick up the ZSR. KZ stuff just tends to punch so far above its price point, I doubt I won't be getting my money's worth.


It will definitely be "good" but we have only a pair of ears. We need to upgrade rather than side grade, imho


----------



## BrunoC

Yes, but true head-fiers don't do only what they need. 
They do what they want.... which is buying just a couple more iems  They just can't resist.


----------



## razorpakk

BrunoC said:


> Yes, but true head-fiers don't do only what they need.
> They do what they want.... which is buying just a couple more iems  They just can't resist.


I think (especially for those into Chi-Fi) it's like having a watch collection: everyday you pick a different one to take out.


----------



## Mellowship

snip3r77 said:


> It will definitely be "good" but we have only a pair of ears. We need to upgrade rather than side grade, imho


I have been "downgrading" lately... From  FiiO x3II to Benjie S5, from ZS5 v1 to ZS3, from foamies to plain silicones... Been using the ZS3 for 3 weeks straight. Nothing else (except full-sized cans when at home). They are amazing when used correctly. But they are tricky in every aspect. Just stick some tips with a narrower bore and they will muffle. Don't even think of Sony hybrids, they will become bass cannons with almost no mids and treble. The original cable also sucks, mainly for its tangliness. Not every source suits them well (the Benjie does a good work though).


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> I have been "downgrading" lately... From  FiiO x3II to Benjie S5, from ZS5 v1 to ZS3, from foamies to plain silicones... Been using the ZS3 for 3 weeks straight. Nothing else (except full-sized cans when at home). They are amazing when used correctly. But they are tricky in every aspect. Just stick some tips with a narrower bore and they will muffle. Don't even think of Sony hybrids, they will become bass cannons with almost no mids and treble. The original cable also sucks, mainly for its tangliness. Not every source suits them well (the Benjie does a good work though).



Good points.

What tips are those?

Also, if you swap the red nylon mesh with some stainless mesh (or just completely remove the red mesh and run open nozzles), you'll upgrade the sound of the ZS3 for cheap


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> Good points.
> 
> What tips are those?
> 
> Also, if you swap the red nylon mesh with some stainless mesh (or just completely remove the red mesh and run open nozzles), you'll upgrade the sound of the ZS3 for cheap



I really don't remember where I got those tips from. I suspect they are the large tips from the Rock Zyrcons (which I don't really like). 

Thank you for your suggestion, but I already tried to remove the mesh and run open nozzles before. It opened up the sound but after a while I started missing some punch in the subbass and I glued the mesh back on. Never tried the stainless steel ones though. Something like this? http://tiny.cc/4b1vpy


----------



## HungryPanda

razorpakk said:


> I think (especially for those into Chi-Fi) it's like having a watch collection: everyday you pick a different one to take out.



Today I'm sporting the BGVP DX3........


----------



## Mallo

Just received my zs3 and zst, pretty impressed about sound quality! Zst are definetly more detailed and less boomy, can be my first choice for IEM. Zs3 are more stable in my ears and with huge isolation. I will try also foam tips on both and maybe slater mod on zs3. Waiting for es3


----------



## Strat Rider

I received my ZST, ES3, ZS6 from GB, and currently breaking them in. I don't typically believe in "burn in" as such, but I did have an issue with the ZST.

 The left side apparently, for lack of a better term, was stuck. The BA was supplying all the sound. 

I put them into burn in mode on my tablet just to try, at the price, ot going to return them. 

After about 8 hours, i remembered they were still in burn-in mode. Plugged them into my Note 5 and cmoy amp, and the sound was matched to the right side.

I switched to mono for a listen to various tracks, and all was good.


----------



## CoiL

bsoplinger said:


> I expect that it'll sound much like the ZS6, from mids through highs at least. I'm guessing the same xover with just one dynamic driver to fill in everything below instead of a pair like the ZS6. *Its a shame because the initial ZS5 seemed like a step in a good sounding direction and subsequent steps have been for the worse.*


Unfortunately that seems to be direction and atm I have to +1 this. For consumer market they make still very good IEMs but for "audiophiles" things seem to turn other way and some competitors starting to step on heels of KZ price vs. perf point.


----------



## oyobass

It's a fun-grade. Like sampling different coffees or wines to compare and contrast the different  flavors...


snip3r77 said:


> It will definitely be "good" but we have only a pair of ears. We need to upgrade rather than side grade, imho


It's a fun-grade. Like sampling different coffees or wines to compare and contrast the different  flavors...


----------



## nkramer

oyobass said:


> It's a fun-grade. Like sampling different coffees or wines to compare and contrast the different  flavors...
> 
> It's a fun-grade. Like sampling different coffees or wines to compare and contrast the different  flavors...




...and a hell of a lot cheaper than if you'd get a sampling of the "entry-level" of a bunch of the big names to sample their "house sound".....

after you get to a certain point in sound quality, the benefits of the next step up in sound quality usually increases the price greatly ($100 - 10x ?) for a negligible difference in sound quality.


----------



## Superluc

bsoplinger said:


> I expect that it'll sound much like the ZS6, from mids through highs at least. I'm guessing the same xover with just one dynamic driver to fill in everything below instead of a pair like the ZS6. Its a shame because the initial ZS5 seemed like a step in a good sounding direction and subsequent steps have been for the worse.


I don't think so. Messing with ZS6 BA's, with impedance or mods, don't affect mids on them.

If one of the two BA's on ZSR is tuned for mids, the sound will sure be different.


----------



## Slater (Jan 3, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> Thank you for your suggestion, but I already tried to remove the mesh and run open nozzles before. It opened up the sound but after a while I started missing some punch in the subbass and I glued the mesh back on. Never tried the stainless steel ones though. Something like this? http://tiny.cc/4b1vpy



Yes, those are the ones. They come in a number of different sizes, and are very handy for modding IEMs (or for even when the stock screen gets lost, damaged, or clogged with ear gunk).

You are right though - the nylon screens (such as the red ones KZ uses) - DO generally increase the sub-bass. But it is usually at the expense of clarity, better mids, and better treble. The nylon also usually adds a veil to the sound, and the bass it does add can often be tubby and/or bloated.

It is because of this that I think nozzle screens are a poor way to tune the bass/sub-bass of an IEM because of the negative way it affects the rest of the sound. A MUCH better solution is to use the stainless screens on the nozzle, and instead tune the bass/sub-bass by manipulating the size of the bass vent hole on the IEM shell. You can also fine tune it with different tips (usually with a smaller bore opening such as the KZ Starlines have).

I also usually save my screens when screen swapping on a new IEM - for example, if I remove the red screens from a new pair of KZs, I'll replace the screens with the stainless version. And where I peeled off the stainless screens from the plastic sheet, I will stick the red nylon ones in it's place. This way, I can reuse the red screens on something else if I need to. The nylon screens are also good for covering up the vent holes I may drill into an IEM shell or headphone cup for tuning (I will place the nylon screen over the hole on the inside to keep dust and dirt out). Many OEMs do this on IEMs and even full size headphones.


----------



## Keller2

I have concluded that the ZS6 with foamies and EQ  is indeed my jam, after being unhappy with the ZS5v1 and ZS6. ( initially ) 

Good thing too because I ordered 4 pair for christmas and only gifted away 1. 
I'm now ready to give KZ money for a better cable ( One with silicone non-rigid memory wire ) and a comfier shell. Or a version with less highs.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> Yes, those are the ones. They come in a number of different sizes, and are very handy for modding IEMs (or for even when the stock screen gets lost, damaged, or clogged with ear gunk).
> 
> You are right though - the nylon screens (such as the red ones KZ uses) - DO generally increase the sub-bass. But it is usually at the expense of clarity, better mids, and better treble. The nylon also usually adds a veil to the sound, and the bass it does add can often be tubby and/or bloated.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much! Gonna order them steel meshes and be back to you in a few weeks to report on my findings!


----------



## Slater (Jan 3, 2018)

Keller2 said:


> I have concluded that the ZS6 with foamies and EQ  is indeed my jam, after being unhappy with the ZS5v1 and ZS6. ( initially )
> 
> Good thing too because I ordered 4 pair for christmas and only gifted away 1.
> I'm now ready to give KZ money for a better cable ( One with silicone non-rigid memory wire ) and a comfier shell. Or a version with less highs.



BTW those ZS5 v1 are like gold to a lot of HeadFiers - you could sell those within minutes on the classifieds board.


----------



## stmiller (Jan 4, 2018)

Finally picked up my ZS6 ordered from Aliexpress on 11.11 yesterday..

Initial impressions..

. The bass slam is quite impressive, doesn't muddy the other freqs at all

. Tweeter is a bit overdone, making for a 'ssss..' sound on tracks which accentuate that range on the spectrum

. Love the build quality

. Using an aftermarket cable, with stock tips

. Isolates well enough.

I really think it's more than worth what i paid for it..

Will burn in & update feedback.


----------



## Selenium

Maybe it's just me but those housings don't look the same. Similar, sure. That's just design evolution though. Like how most phones are black rectangular slabs.


----------



## Im2bz2p

I may be shooting in the dark here, but I'm wondering if there is anyone that owns/has owned *KZ ZS3* and also owns/has owned the *VSonic GR02 BE (Bass Edition)*? Looking for a comparison of sound.

It's been years since I had mine, but those VSonic GR02 BE's have been my favorite IEMs sub $30. I really enjoy the V-shaped sound and the bass (especially the mid/lower end without being too muddy). They finally have started to crap out on me, so just looking at similar options.

Thanks in advance,

~ Im2bz2p


----------



## oyobass

Im2bz2p said:


> I may be shooting in the dark here, but I'm wondering if there is anyone that owns/has owned *KZ ZS3* and also owns/has owned the *VSonic GR02 BE (Bass Edition)*? Looking for a comparison of sound.
> 
> It's been years since I had mine, but those VSonic GR02 BE's have been my favorite IEMs sub $30. I really enjoy the V-shaped sound and the bass (especially the mid/lower end without being too muddy). They finally have started to crap out on me, so just looking at similar options.
> 
> ...


Just buy 'em:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...9-mi-piston-3-99.832367/page-72#post-13953241
$4.99 with the code in the post. Free (but SLOW) shipping.

I paid 10x more for my Mee Audio M6 Pro, which I like 96.57% less...


----------



## Im2bz2p

oyobass said:


> Just buy 'em:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...9-mi-piston-3-99.832367/page-72#post-13953241
> $4.99 with the code in the post. Free (but SLOW) shipping.
> 
> I paid 10x more for my Mee Audio M6 Pro, which I like 96.57% less...



Well, at that price, it doesn't even make sense to think twice.

Just went for it! Thanks for the link to the super sale.

~ Im2bz2p


----------



## oyobass (Jan 4, 2018)

Im2bz2p said:


> Well, at that price, it doesn't even make sense to think twice.
> 
> Just went for it! Thanks for the link to the super sale.
> 
> ~ Im2bz2p


You might not thank me later... Gearbest is almost as addicting as Head-Fi. I just ordered the Superlux HD681 listed just below the ZS3 in the link I gave, along with a $12 multimeter. In the past I bought 3.99 quartz watches, a 5.99 smartwatch I wear every day, light bulbs, guitar tools, you name it.

Good Lord have mercy on my soul...


----------



## Slater (Jan 5, 2018)

oyobass said:


> You might not thank me later... Gearbest is almost as addicting as Head-Fi. I just ordered the Superlux HD681 listed just below the ZS3 in the link I gave, along with a $12 multimeter. In the past I bought 3.99 quartz watches, a 5.99 smartwatch I wear every day, light bulbs, guitar tools, you name it.
> 
> Good Lord have mercy on my soul...



I know what you mean. Lots of great KZ deals from Gearbest!

FYI, the Naviforce brand of analog quartz watches are very nice - well constructed, very reliable, functional chronological dials (vs fake chrono dials on a lot of low end Chinese watches), features usually found on higher end watches (like AR coated crystals and genuine carbon fiber dials), and very affordable. They have a lot of styles available, in numerous color combinations.

Gearbest has great prices on them, but occasionally I go to eBay for better price, other colors, or additional styles not available from Gearbest.

They’re great as everyday casual “beater” watches, and I gave one to my dad because he commented about how much he liked my watch one day.

I own about 7-8 of them (among many other watches, including some high end watches for dress occasions). I change out the stock bands on the Naviforces sometimes, for better looks or more functionality.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> I know what you mean. Lots of great KZ deals from Gearbest!
> 
> FYI, the Naviforce brand of watches is very nice - well constructed, very reliable, functional chronological dials (vs fake chrono dials on a lot of low end Chinese watches), and very affordable. They have a lot of styles available, in numerous color combinations.
> 
> ...


As far as watches go I have the cheap DZ09 clone I got to replace my first gen Moto 360 that had a failing battery. The other was a Panda-shaped novelty watch for my daughter.

I figure as long as they tell time and don't turn your wrist green, they are worth more than what I paid. The "smart" features work pretty well. Kind of fun talking to someone on my wrist and leaving the phone in my pocket.

I'll have to check out the Naviforce brand...


----------



## toddy0191 (Jan 4, 2018)

oyobass said:


> You might not thank me later... Gearbest is almost as addicting as Head-Fi. I just ordered the Superlux HD681 listed just below the ZS3 in the link I gave, along with a $12 multimeter. In the past I bought 3.99 quartz watches, a 5.99 smartwatch I wear every day, light bulbs, guitar tools, you name it.
> 
> Good Lord have mercy on my soul...



You'll love the superlux they're one of the best value purchases I've made in audio. They're bright but sound so much more expensive than their cost.  They're very plastic,  come in cheap packaging but sound so so good IMO


----------



## groucho69

oyobass said:


> You might not thank me later... Gearbest is almost as addicting as Head-Fi. I just ordered the Superlux HD681 listed just below the ZS3 in the link I gave, along with a $12 multimeter. In the past I bought 3.99 quartz watches, a 5.99 smartwatch I wear every day, light bulbs, guitar tools, you name it.
> 
> Good Lord have mercy on my soul...



Beg for mercy on your wallet


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> I know what you mean. Lots of great KZ deals from Gearbest!
> 
> FYI, the Naviforce brand of watches is very nice - well constructed, very reliable, functional chronological dials (vs fake chrono dials on a lot of low end Chinese watches), features usually found on higher end watches (like AR coated crystals and genuine carbon fiber dials), and very affordable. They have a lot of styles available, in numerous color combinations.
> 
> ...



Should we be surprised that you are addicted to watches as well? I'm down to 10 now. I gave away 30 or so.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

razorpakk said:


> I think (especially for those into Chi-Fi) it's like having a watch collection: everyday you pick a different one to take out.


or pens. or skateboard shoes...or....any number of cool Ish that can be had for very little...


----------



## Slater (Jan 5, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Should we be surprised that you are addicted to watches as well? I'm down to 10 now. I gave away 30 or so.



Well, 30 years in the fine jewelry business didn't help LOL. It's really the only "jewelry" that I wear. Being around fine jewelry all of the time (and with it the ability to buy or make anything I wanted at wholesale cost) made jewelry very "boring" and uninteresting if you know what I mean. So I never really wore any jewelry, but I always liked watches, so that's my guilty jewelry pleasure.

And I'm talking TASTEFUL watches, not the ridiculous oversized "my watch is bigger than your watch" ones that celebrities wear (that look like a hardware store or steampunk junk collection, passed off as a "watch"). That's the point when a watch ceases to be a watch and is called a CLOCK.


----------



## nkramer

Slater said:


> That's the point when a watch ceases to be a watch and is called a CLOCK.


LOL, too funny.


----------



## oyobass

At different points, I have collected or am collecting knives, watches, manga/anime earphones/headphones and guitars/amps basses/amps.
The two constants have been the instruments and the 'phones.
The instruments very much have followed the Chi-Fi pattern. Find a brand that punches way above it's price and mod and adjust them until satisfied. I used to either invest way more in parts than an instrument is worth, or in many more cases these days, leave it nearly stock and upgrade the playability and sound doing cheap or free tweaks.
Very fun handing a buddy one of my favorite cheapies and seeing their face when I tell them they are playing a $130 guitar...


----------



## oyobass (Jan 5, 2018)

Slater said:


> Well, 30 years in the fine jewelry business didn't help LOL. It's really the only "jewelry" that I wear. Being around fine jewelry all of the time (and with it the ability to buy or make anything I wanted at wholesale cost) made jewelry very "boring" and uninteresting if you know what I mean. So I never really wore any jewelry, but I always liked watches, so that's my guilty jewelry pleasure.
> 
> And I'm talking TASTEFUL watches, not the ridiculous oversized "my watch is bigger than your watch" ones that celebrities wear (that look like a hardware store or steampunk junk collection, passed off as a "watch"). That's the point when a watch ceases to be a watch and is called a CLOCK.


I kind of like the steamjunk look, (I guess 'tasteful' is not my style), but I find a watch that large to literally be a pain, since I'm a fairly active guy. Those watches jab the back of my hand when bending my wrist.

I find the whole watch-designed-by-a-mad-scientist-on-a-cocaine-induced-fit-of-creativity esthetic very appealing, lol.


----------



## ivo001

toddy0191 said:


> You'll love the superlux they're one of the best value purchases I've made in audio. They're bright but sound so much more expensive than their cost.  They're very plastic,  come in cheap packaging but sound so so good IMO



I'm still awaiting the Superlux HD668B that I ordered for $22,99 on Gearbest on 28 November...
Latest tracking update was that it arrived in Malashevichy Poland on 20 december...


----------



## ivo001

Just received some foam tips I order from AE.
Ordered 1 pair of T300 M Grey and 1 pair of T400 M Blue for just $1.78.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs...32773491286.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.mJHGCS

The T300 fits the ZS5 perfectly. Was quite easy to get them on the nozzle, expected it to be a bit tighter. The grey looks kinda white though compared to my grey ZS5, so not a perfect color match but it's ok.
Still have to try the blue T400, will try to use them on my candy ZST.


----------



## Mellowship

ivo001 said:


> Just received some foam tips I order from AE.
> Ordered 1 pair of T300 M Grey and 1 pair of T400 M Blue for just $1.78.
> https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs...32773491286.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.mJHGCS
> 
> ...



 

You copycat!


----------



## LordZero (Jan 5, 2018)

Can the Silver ZST cable fit the ZS6?

In the aliexpress zs6 page, when you click on the silver cable upgrade, it redirects you to the ZST cable... and only now reading trough foruns I found that there is a difference...

http://tiny.cc/qlyxpy

Beware!

Btw, what it's the best upgrade of the cable in terms of microphonics and comfort, I loved the cable of mine rca m750i, although a bit rugged.


----------



## toddy0191

ivo001 said:


> I'm still awaiting the Superlux HD668B that I ordered for $22,99 on Gearbest on 28 November...
> Latest tracking update was that it arrived in Malashevichy Poland on 20 december...


Never heard the 668bs  but pick up the 681s if you can, they're often reduced below $15.


----------



## CoiL

HD-681 with HW amplitude corrector, changed cable and some pad rolling/changing are total beasts for the money. 
I have modded my pair and they are not so good as my X1 but damn they make You think about price vs. perf level, they are very good when modded and I would say even "beat" many >100$ cans easily !

...but fellas, this is KZ thread - return to subject!


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Well, 30 years in the fine jewelry business didn't help LOL. It's really the only "jewelry" that I wear. Being around fine jewelry all of the time (and with it the ability to buy or make anything I wanted at wholesale cost) made jewelry very "boring" and uninteresting if you know what I mean. So I never really wore any jewelry, but I always liked watches, so that's my guilty jewelry pleasure.
> 
> And I'm talking TASTEFUL watches, not the ridiculous oversized "my watch is bigger than your watch" ones that celebrities wear (that look like a hardware store or steampunk junk collection, passed off as a "watch"). That's the point when a watch ceases to be a watch and is called a CLOCK.



I prefer the thinnest but that does not seem to be in style at present. My fav is a thin Citizen Eco Drive.


----------



## Slater (Jan 5, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> I prefer the thinnest but that does not seem to be in style at present. My fav is a thin Citizen Eco Drive.



I love Eco Drives, but I no longer have mine 

For thin I have always been partial to Skagen. My fav thin is the full titanium 809XLTTM, with carbon fiber chronograph dial:



So light and thin! I forget I'm even wearing a watch. And the Skagen mesh bands have always been awesome since the 1st day I saw one decades ago (I was thinking "how on earth do they manufacture this??")

And to stay on topic, I wonder if KZ will ever make an IEM that uses carbon fiber or titanium? Sure, the cost will be a little higher, but not too much higher because IEMs are still very small and thus wouldn't use much material. They could easily use a tube of CF as a body for something like the ED or HDS series. Or in place of the wood accents like Magaosi BK35 or BK50.


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> I love Eco Drives, but I no longer have mine
> 
> For thin I have always been partial to Skagen. My fav is the full titanium 809XLTTM, with carbon fiber chronograph dial:
> 
> ...



I'll always keep my Skagen's and the knock offs too.

KZ carbon fiber sounds like a great idea!


----------



## HungryPanda

I need a battery for my skagen


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I need a battery for my skagen



I do too.  I hope dead watch batteries do not leak.


----------



## groucho69

Cheap to replace


----------



## riffrafff

HungryPanda said:


> I need a battery for my skagen



Ah, the advantage of automatics.  *Grin*


----------



## bsoplinger (Jan 5, 2018)

LordZero said:


> Btw, what it's the best upgrade of the cable in terms of microphonics and comfort, I loved the cable of mine rca m750i, although a bit rugged.


This style, IMHO

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32842791429.html

This is the newer style cable that does not come in a white KZ box with the cable inside a translucent whitish plastic bag. I don't believe there's any sound difference versus the basic stock KZ cables, either with or without a microphone, but the softer braided cable lies better and doesn't have a microphonic issue. At least as I'm using it. You can even find it with the angled ZST style connector. I just did a search on Aliexpress.com for "KZ upgrade cable" to find the style. The link I gave probably isn't the cheapest, it was just the first that wasn't from the seller who is not to be mentioned. Be careful when searching, there are cables with MMCX connectors instead of a pair of pins that have the same description. I have a couple of those I'm using on non KZ IEMs that I like.


----------



## Saoshyant

Standardly you only need to worry about a dead watch battery if you ignore it for quite some time.  Automatics are good if it's your daily watch too.  My favorite watch is wound, but quite large and I'm protective of it due to it being a tourbillon, albeit using an inexpensive chinese movement.  Really hope to see sub-200 tourbillons someday.


----------



## oyobass

Help me!!!

I'm now twitching since you fine folks have been fuelling my watch acquisition jones. 

I don't know why, because I go through periods of years without even wearing a watch...


----------



## groucho69

oyobass said:


> Help me!!!
> 
> I'm now twitching since you fine folks have been fuelling my watch acquisition jones.
> 
> I don't know why, because I go through periods of years without even wearing a watch...



A man without a watch is not dressed. Or so I've been told...likely by a watch salesman.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I need a battery for my skagen





mbwilson111 said:


> I do too.  I hope dead watch batteries do not leak.



Unlike alkaline batteries that leak all of the time when discharged, the button cell batteries used in quartz watches rarely leak. They can leak, but it's usually when the watch gasket has been compromised (torn, missing, etc) and sweat gets into the watch (or other moisture, but sweat is really bad). Then it corrodes everything including the battery.

If you were in the states, I'd replace the batteries for you for free as I have access to all of the proper watchmaking tools. The only thing I don't have is a crystal cutting lathe and a repressurizer (but the latter is only needed for some watched such as Rolex). Just don't use a butter knife like I see all of the time. Take it to a proper jeweler or watchmaker


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> A man without a watch is not dressed. Or so I've been told...likely by a watch salesman.



I believe that.

And an Apple watch doesn't count. That's a gadget, not a watch


----------



## groucho69 (Jan 5, 2018)

Slater said:


> Unlike alkaline batteries that leak all of the time when discharged, the button cell batteries used in quartz watches rarely leak. They can leak, but it's usually when the watch gasket has been compromised (torn, missing, etc) and sweat gets into the watch (or other moisture, but sweat is really bad). Then it corrodes everything including the battery.
> 
> If you were in the states, I'd replace the batteries for you for free as I have access to all of the proper watchmaking tools. The only thing I don't have is a crystal cutting lathe and a repressurizer (but the latter is only needed for some watched such as Rolex). Just don't use a butter knife like I see all of the time. Take it to a proper jeweler or watchmaker



So you're saying always use a sharp knife?


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> I believe that.
> 
> And an Apple watch doesn't count. That's a gadget, not a watch



On the contrary...it is a waste.


----------



## riffrafff

Slater said:


> And an Apple watch doesn't count. That's a gadget, not a watch



Indeed.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> I believe that.
> 
> And an Apple watch doesn't count. That's a gadget, not a watch


The only reason I started wearing watches again is because my son gifted me a Moto 360 gadget. 
If I need to know what time it is, I look at my cell phone


----------



## riffrafff

oyobass said:


> The only reason I started wearing watches again is because my son gifted me a Moto 360 gadget.
> If I need to know what time it is, I look at my cell phone



Yeah, we've come full-circle.  From pocket watches, to wrist watches, and now back to glorified pocket watches.  LOL.


----------



## Saoshyant

OT:  All I can say is keep in mind what you prize most.  If you're utilitarian in nature, a smartwatch may be best suited to you.  If you're a pragmatist I can see a digital watch making sense.  For some people the Seiko 5 is ideal, and it does make a great everyday watch.  I personally feel past a certain point a watch is essentially jewelry and there's nothing wrong with that.  Just don't let other people's opinions keep you from making the decisions you really want to make, within reason of course.


----------



## mbwilson111

oyobass said:


> The only reason I started wearing watches again is because my son gifted me a Moto 360 gadget.
> If I need to know what time it is, I look at my cell phone



I don't carry a phone.  I don't wear a watch around the house (there is at least one clock in every room) but I feel naked if I go out without putting on a watch...kind of like shoes... my dogs could always tell I was on my way out if I grabbed my watch and shoes. All my more expensive watches have dead batteries right now.. I am happy wearing various colorful silicone watches lately.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> I believe that.
> 
> And an Apple watch doesn't count. That's a gadget, not a watch



I rather like using watch with more capabilities than only tells time. Been using the Garmin Vivosmart HR daily when i go out, because I'm using a tablet as my main device that it's a bit cumbersome to take them out and opening the cover just to tell time and messages.

In fact i might not use any wristwatch daily if it's only just a time piece (except to formal events, then i need my "jewelry")


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

CoiL said:


> HD-681 with HW amplitude corrector, changed cable and some pad rolling/changing are total beasts for the money.
> I have modded my pair and they are not so good as my X1 but damn they make You think about price vs. perf level, they are very good when modded and I would say even "beat" many >100$ cans easily !
> 
> ...but fellas, this is KZ thread - return to subject!


about that "HW amplitude corrector"? I saw the PDF on that...but I don't feel like taking that on as a soldering project (I'm still a novice with soldering and that seemed like an advanced move) I thought I saw a standalone one...does it help that much? Where would I get one?


----------



## oyobass

Saoshyant said:


> OT:  All I can say is keep in mind what you prize most.  If you're utilitarian in nature, a smartwatch may be best suited to you.  If you're a pragmatist I can see a digital watch making sense.  For some people the Seiko 5 is ideal, and it does make a great everyday watch.  I personally feel past a certain point a watch is essentially jewelry and there's nothing wrong with that.  Just don't let other people's opinions keep you from making the decisions you really want to make, within reason of course.


When I see a beautiful watch, I want it because it is a thing of beauty. I'm talking about classic watches like your Seiko. 

Some day, I'll get one. Probably wear it night and day for a while. After that, I'll just wear it to the office. Then I will remember that I'm not a watch guy, and it'll sit on the shelf with the others. Sad but true.

I'm in love with the idea, history and romance of watches, but not the experience...


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Jan 5, 2018)

oyobass said:


> When I see a beautiful watch, I want it because it is a thing of beauty. I'm talking about classic watches like your Seiko.
> 
> Some day, I'll get one. Probably wear it night and day for a while. After that, I'll just wear it to the office. Then I will remember that I'm not a watch guy, and it'll sit on the shelf with the others. Sad but true.
> 
> I'm in love with the idea, history and romance of watches, but not the experience...


Dangit, I promised myself I wouldn't get sucked into this......but I have had a few Seikos...the skx007 and a Seiko 5 titanium were my favorites...I really miss that Titanium, it was so light.


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> If I need to know what time it is, I look at my cell phone



Unfortunately, this all too common fact is what’s killing the watch industry.

Same with the point and shoot camera market, and many other things.

I know, it’s progress and all, but it’s still sad to see.


----------



## Slater (Jan 5, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> So you're saying always use a sharp knife?



Well, the thing about doing it yourself at home is that it’s typically easy to get the back off. But often it’s getting them back ON that can be problematic. Many watch backs are pressure backs, and require a watch “press” to reinstall the back. You attach the appropriate die to each side of the watch case, and press them together in a machine that puts even and equal pressure around the perimeter of the watch back. The die that goes on the front of the watch is carefully chosen so as to not crack the crystal once force is applied using the press machine.

Many watch backs can simply be snapped back in with your fingers, but the ones that don’t are literally impossible to get back together without a watch press.

In addition, some watches have a reset procedure when replacing the battery, where the circuit must be shorted in a specific way to prevent problems.

Then there’s the issue of many watches having “straps” that screw down on top of the battery. If you think the screws that hold eyeglasses together are small, you should see the screws used in watches. They are a fraction of a millimeter, and the straps are often “spring loaded”, so when you unscrew the microscopic screw, the battery strap launches the screw into oblivion. Then you’re screwed, because sure you can install a new battery, but you don’t have anything to hold the battery strap down with. The strap must make contact with the battery to complete the circuit. Jewelers have a selection of replacement battery strap screws.

Not only that, but almost all watches have very tiny gaskets that prevent moisture from getting into the watch. It’s not much thicker than a few human hairs. The gasket is often torn when the back is removed, or is flattened or stretched out due to normal use/aging, and must be replaced with a new one.

You’d be surprised how many people bring watches in a ziplock baggie, after they’ve given up trying to work on it at home. We call them butcher jobs, because it looks like they took a dull butter knife and tried to butcher the watch to pieces. The butchering can get so bad that it damages/chews up the case and the back no longer properly mates with a flat surface. It can also chew up where the gasket seats, compromising the integrity of the gasket seal.

If you just take it to a proper jeweler, they have all of the proper tools, all of the proper gaskets, etc. It is $10 well spent (and free lifetime replacement if you purchased the watch from us).

I’m not saying it can’t be a perfectly successful DIY job, but things can go very sideways at which point you’ll need a jeweler or watchmaker to sort it out anyways. No reputable/trustworthy jeweler tries to “gouge” people on watch battery replacement. We’re just happy to provide a service and out a smile on your face. We give away tons of free battery replacement coupons, don’t charge veterans and active duty military, free batteries to new customers, lifetime replacement on watches purchased from us, etc.


----------



## riffrafff

Slater said:


> Unfortunately, this all too common fact is what’s killing the watch industry.
> 
> Same with the point and shoot camera market, and many other things.
> 
> I know, it’s progress and all, but it’s still sad to see.



"The wristwatch...an elegant timepiece for a more civilized age."


----------



## ivo001

So, in a topic about KZ earphones we have now pages full of watch discussions


----------



## CoiL

Cruelhand Luke said:


> about that "HW amplitude corrector"? I saw the PDF on that...but I don't feel like taking that on as a soldering project (I'm still a novice with soldering and that seemed like an advanced move) I thought I saw a standalone one...does it help that much? Where would I get one?



For the sake of this thread and my respect for KZ bang products... I`ll PM You about that  But my fast comment about that filter - its darn easy to do and You can do built-into-HP or in-line-cable-removeable(or even tunable) filter... and it`s worth every penny and move!


----------



## groucho69

chinmie said:


> I rather like using watch with more capabilities than only tells time. Been using the Garmin Vivosmart HR daily when i go out, because I'm using a tablet as my main device that it's a bit cumbersome to take them out and opening the cover just to tell time and messages.
> 
> In fact i might not use any wristwatch daily if it's only just a time piece (except to formal events, then i need my "jewelry")



Just more ways to be tracked and "watched."


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Well, the thing about doing it yourself at home is that it’s typically easy to get the back off. But often it’s getting them back ON that can be problematic. Many watch backs are pressure backs, and require a watch “press” to reinstall the back. You attach the appropriate die to each side of the watch case, and press them together in a machine that puts even and equal pressure around the perimeter of the watch back. The die that goes on the front of the watch is carefully chosen so as to not crack the crystal once force is applied using the press machine.
> 
> Many watch backs can simply be snapped back in with your fingers, but the ones that don’t are literally impossible to get back together without a watch press.
> 
> ...



And I happily pay $15 for my waterproof kit.


----------



## jaydm99 (Jan 6, 2018)

It's nice to see that Gearbest's "unregistered" shipping is actually trackable now. It's still painfully slow though but better than paying extra $3-4.

 
I use this site to track it cause the tracking details doesn't appear on the Gearbest app.


----------



## Pruikki

Jay Magaling said:


> It's nice to see that Gearbest's "unregistered" shipping is actually trackable now. It's still painfully slow though but better than paying extra $3-4.
> 
> I use this site to track it cause the tracking details doesn't appear on the Gearbest app.


Thank you! i did not know this!
This brings me peace of mind!

Now i know my orders are in the country, now i will wait till post will deliver my KZ stuff
Got ATR and ES3+ZS3 coming 

last thing it will say on tracking is always"  *the transfer of customs*--   30-Dec-2017 06:25 PM "

then it will not update,then all left to do is wait.

thanks,now i know i can track my unregistered orders


----------



## govie (Jan 6, 2018)

I wanted to buy a higher end model (whizzer A15 €58,--) but I decided to go for the KZ ZS6 (€25,-- on gearbest, 33% discount) in combination with C foam tips (€4,-- on aliexpress). I could have also bought the KZ ZS5 (€15,-- at gearbest) with better soundstage out of the box although worse comfort+buildquality, but some users posted that the treble quality was higher when using foam tips on the zs6 instead of the standard tips. Because I trailrun for 2 hours 3 times a week, I decided that comfort and buildquality was more important to me then less soundstage. Also, I do not even know if my ears would notice what other experienced audiophiles have noticed in the treble and marked as less good (I am almost 40 years old, so my ears are probably less good anyway).

The long wait has begun! I am excited because these earbuds will be my first chi-fi earbuds in combination with my benjie s5. let say for some reason I would ever want bluetooth, then I can always upgrade so that is a plus.


----------



## ivo001

govie said:


> I wanted to buy a higher end model (whizzer A15 €58,--) but I decided to go for the KZ ZS6 (€25,-- on gearbest, 33% discount) in combination with C foam tips (€4,-- on aliexpress). I could have also bought the KZ ZS5 (€15,-- at gearbest) with better soundstage out of the box although worse comfort+buildquality, but some users posted that the treble quality was higher when using foam tips on the zs6 instead of the standard tips. Because I trailrun for 2 hours 3 times a week, I decided that comfort and buildquality was more important to me then less soundstage. Also, I do not even know if my ears would notice what other experienced audiophiles have noticed in the treble and marked as less good (I am almost 40 years old, so my ears are probably less good anyway).
> 
> The long wait has begun! I am excited because these earbuds will be my first chi-fi earbuds in combination with my benjie s5. let say for some reason I would ever want bluetooth, then I can always upgrade so that is a plus.



Hope it won't take too long before they arrive too you in NL. My ZS5 took over a month, and still waiting on some headphones that I ordered 28 nov.
But it's like russian Roulette. Some New Bee tips that I ordered at GB arrived in only 10 days.


----------



## govie

ivo001 said:


> Hope it won't take too long before they arrive too you in NL. My ZS5 took over a month, and still waiting on some headphones that I ordered 28 nov.
> But it's like russian Roulette. Some New Bee tips that I ordered at GB arrived in only 10 days.



I have similar experiences with chinashops, I bought some IoT-stuff and wii-stuff before at aliexpress and was pleased how everything went. But sometimes the order you place is probably not big enough or just badly timed in regards when the shop sends out the ordered goods. But till now I am pleased about most purchases and deliverytimes. I bought a benji s5 4 days ago and it is still not sent, but that is ok. If you want to shop on the cheapside, you can not have everything your way ofcourse. patience is bliss!


----------



## stryed

govie said:


> I wanted to buy a higher end model (whizzer A15 €58,--) but I decided to go for the KZ ZS6 (€25,-- on gearbest, 33% discount) in combination with C foam tips (€4,-- on aliexpress). I could have also bought the KZ ZS5 (€15,-- at gearbest) with better soundstage out of the box although worse comfort+buildquality, but some users posted that the treble quality was higher when using foam tips on the zs6 instead of the standard tips. Because I trailrun for 2 hours 3 times a week, I decided that comfort and buildquality was more important to me then less soundstage. Also, I do not even know if my ears would notice what other experienced audiophiles have noticed in the treble and marked as less good (I am almost 40 years old, so my ears are probably less good anyway).
> 
> The long wait has begun! I am excited because these earbuds will be my first chi-fi earbuds in combination with my benjie s5. let say for some reason I would ever want bluetooth, then I can always upgrade so that is a plus.



You can't go wrong with that choice! However for trailrunning, I would have thought that weight (plastic vs metal) and disposability to be up  there on the priority list. You could have also bought 2 KZ5s like I did  . Then again, the KZ6 is a nice looking beast...


----------



## govie

stryed said:


> You can't go wrong with that choice! However for trailrunning, I would have thought that weight (plastic vs metal) and disposability to be up  there on the priority list. You could have also bought 2 KZ5s like I did  . Then again, the KZ6 is a nice looking beast...



€10 difference is quite alot I agree, but more then 1 reviewer complained about the comfort of the zs5 (also budgetaudio and uproear) and I did not want to wait 3 weeks on earbuds that would not be comfortable. With the zs6 nobody complained about comfort and the buildquality was better anyway. When you trainrun for 2 hours orso, comfort I feel is more important so the zs6 seemed a logical choice to me (in combination with the cfoam fix). I just hope they blow my philips shs3300 away and be just as comfortable, I would enjoy that!


----------



## stryed

govie said:


> €10 difference is quite alot I agree, but more then 1 reviewer complained about the comfort of the zs5 (also budgetaudio and uproear) and I did not want to wait 3 weeks on earbuds that would not be comfortable. With the zs6 nobody complained about comfort and the buildquality was better anyway. When you trainrun for 2 hours orso, comfort I feel is more important so the zs6 seemed a logical choice to me (in combination with the cfoam fix). I just hope they blow my philips shs3300 away and be just as comfortable, I would enjoy that!



The shape is awkward indeed on both the KZ5 and the KZ6, with the KZ5 being more angular. I had huge problems with comfort for the first weeks but now I'm used to it and find the KZ5 very comfy. The KZ6 should be easier to get used to if not immediately comfortable.


----------



## groucho69

Not had any comfort issue with either one.


----------



## mbwilson111

stryed said:


> The KZ6 should be easier to get used to if not immediately comfortable.



The ZS6 was immediately comfortable for me.  The ZS3, on the other hand, never felt right so I gave it to my husband who has no problem with it.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have small ears and no KZ has given me any discomfort


----------



## stryed

mbwilson111 said:


> The ZS6 was immediately comfortable for me.  The ZS3, on the other hand, never felt right so I gave it to my husband who has no problem with it.



KZ3 is my most comfortable one, even though it is rather large. It does have a suction feeling to it (driver flex?) unfortunately


----------



## Superluc

Comfort is something too personal for decide witch headphone to buy, taking into account the other's opinion.

Anyway, at now i'm using the ZS6 with the impedance adapter and a pair of BANMIX T400 foams. I like those because they are shorter than New Bee's ones, but the rebound is faster, so i plug the small version of them in my ears almost like silicone tips


----------



## Selenium

The ZS6 hurt my ears at first buy after a while I got used to them and now they're fine. How does that work anyway? Are the nerve cells in those particular hot spots just dead now or did the flesh reinforce itself or something?


----------



## oyobass

Selenium said:


> The ZS6 hurt my ears at first buy after a while I got used to them and now they're fine. How does that work anyway? Are the nerve cells in those particular hot spots just dead now or did the flesh reinforce itself or something?


I suppose that the skin would thicken and toughen, just like a guitar player's fingertips do from playing guitar often enough.


----------



## hydroid

A glimpse of what the new ZSR looks like when wearing them.


----------



## Strat Rider

Well at first glance, looks like memory the wire will still be the first mod.


----------



## TLDRonin

hydroid said:


> A glimpse of what the new ZSR looks like when wearing them.



she has small ears, right? Otherwise, the shells look huge


----------



## hydroid (Feb 6, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> she has small ears, right? Otherwise, the shells look huge



Yeah I think she has small ears.


----------



## Mellowship

hydroid said:


> A glimpse of what the new ZSR looks like when wearing them.



Angled connectors and brown cable? Are we looking at ZST/ES12 cable here? More cable confusion?


----------



## CoiL (Feb 6, 2018)

So, ZSR is same ol´shpriingy cable? Then add 2xBA right in nozzle... Oh no, KZ, You let us down again? Another "sidegrade" to get more buyers?


----------



## stryed

Really don't like the tags on the IEMs... A minimalistic design or a  classy dot or whatnot would be enough to figure out right from left.


----------



## Makahl

hydroid said:


> A glimpse of what the new ZSR looks like when wearing them.



1:03 she made @Slater proud .
1:23 apparently KZ added 2 vents now for the dynamic driver differently than ZST.

Well, let's see how hot the treble will be. I'm not a specialist but 2 single BAs at the nozzle looks some weird configuration or just unnecessary. If this BA's design was similar to a twfk one maybe a dual design would be more suitable for tunning and such.



stryed said:


> Really don't like the tags on the IEMs... A minimalistic design or a  classy dot or whatnot would be enough to figure out right from left.



+1. I couldn't stand the ZST's design so I needed to mod them to "stealth mode". The good news these tags are easily removable using isopropyl alcohol and they look really great and more expensive after you remove it.


----------



## TimOgawa

anyone experiencing with the google voice popping up every damn time when  plugged with  ZST that has the Mic cable?


----------



## paulindss

With KZ zsr being so bulky, i go back waiting for ZS3 hybrid, as the zs4 rumour.


----------



## toddy0191

TimOgawa said:


> anyone experiencing with the google voice popping up every damn time when  plugged with  ZST that has the Mic cable?



Yep,  have had this before and it was due to me having pocket lint in the socket.


----------



## groucho69

toddy0191 said:


> Yep,  have had this before and it was due to me having pocket lint in the socket.



Pocket Lint in the Socket is a great song


----------



## Pruikki

Took my Defective ZS3 apart, and the Results are in!

- Messy soldering and glue is everywhere, Twisted cable is short circuited?

tadaa,It it did not work after this,this was a sacrifice for the greater good ...

*What do yall think?*


----------



## Slater

Pruikki said:


> Took my Defective ZS3 apart, and the Results are in!
> 
> - Messy soldering and glue is everywhere, Twisted cable is short circuited?
> 
> ...



Are you going to do a driver swap? You can get replacement drivers from another IEM or get them very cheap on Aliexpress. It will fit 8mm-10mm drivers (although 10mm drivers requires more work).


----------



## jaydm99

Slater said:


> Are you going to do a driver swap? You can get replacement drivers from another IEM or get them very cheap on Aliexpress. It will fit 8mm-10mm drivers (although 10mm drivers requires more work).


So the vido earbuds drivers would fit the ZS3? Wow. Those buds are extremely cheap you can get them for $2 a pop. But is it recommend to use an earbud driver and put it on am IEM shell?


----------



## hydroid (Jan 8, 2018)

Pruikki said:


> Took my Defective ZS3 apart, and the Results are in!
> 
> - Messy soldering and glue is everywhere, Twisted cable is short circuited?
> 
> ...



I am itching to place my spare ZST's driver into my defective ZS3 shell. Just don't know how to remove the zst's driver from it's shell though.


----------



## Superluc

hydroid said:


> Just don't know how to remove the zst's driver from it's shell though.


----------



## hydroid

Superluc said:


>



ZS3 hybrid in the making..lol..


----------



## Pruikki

Slater said:


> Are you going to do a driver swap? You can get replacement drivers from another IEM or get them very cheap on Aliexpress. It will fit 8mm-10mm drivers (although 10mm drivers requires more work).


I can try,To fit somethig else in there, make my own KZ Super mega giga ulta  duper hype, edition


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> So the vido earbuds drivers would fit the ZS3? Wow. Those buds are extremely cheap you can get them for $2 a pop. But is it recommend to use an earbud driver and put it on am IEM shell?



I have no clue what size the vido drivers are.

Keep in mind, for easiest swapping you're going to need a driver with a "cover" to attach some sort of sound tube to. Or else you're going to have to make some sort of cover (maybe 3D printed). Earbud drivers usually don't have this.

Here's what I'm talking about (ie look at the front of the driver).

Cover/'funnel' to attach sound tube (don't know what the actual name of this is):


No cover to attach sound tube:


@CoiL is the resident ZS3 driver swap expert though - he's already swapped drivers into his ZS3 and even upgraded the sound tube by replacing the crap heat shrink tubing with a nice metal nozzle:


----------



## bsoplinger

Superluc said:


>


That is just sheer desperation for a bottle opener or a beer, not sure which.


----------



## groucho69

Superluc said:


>



Useful talent is always appreciated.


----------



## govie

Just read the http://headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs6/ review (i translated the link in google). I did not even know that the zs6' design was 99,99% copied from the $1099,-- earbuds (pricefactor of x36,6). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I thought it was funny, chi-fi copycats at it's finest!





I do not mind, like it is my first chi-fi so I initially assumed they copied alot and it turns out they do sometimes.


----------



## B9Scrambler

govie said:


> Just read the http://headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs6/ review (i translated the link in google). I did not even know that the zs6' design was 99,99% copied from the $1099,-- earbuds (pricefactor of x36,6).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Copy? There is no copying going on. None whatsoever. Nuh uh! Not here in the KZ thread. Nope nope nope.


----------



## Makahl

You can see KZ likes this quote: “Good artists copy, great artists steal”

just kidding, lol.


----------



## govie (Jan 8, 2018)

Makahl said:


> You can see KZ likes this quote: “Good artists copy, great artists steal”
> 
> just kidding, lol.



Well, king arthur will not make KZ a knight on his round table for a long time, but I do not mind. The review was even very positive about the performance of the zs6, but also stated there still was a slightly noticeable performancegap between both earbuds, so even the more expensive rolemodel got a positive review. So all in all it is a positive article for both earbuds, because if you can spare $1099,-- for earbuds, then you will not even consider to look at the kz lineup anyway.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> Copy? There is no copying going on. None whatsoever. Nuh uh! Not here in the KZ thread. Nope nope nope.


.


----------



## bsoplinger

B9Scrambler said:


> …


What's the silver one that says 4 driver on it?


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> What's the silver one that says 4 driver on it?



KZ ZS5


----------



## Willber

govie said:


> Well, king arthur will not make KZ a knight on his round table for a long time, but I do not mind. The review was even very positive about the performance of the zs6, but also stated there still was a slightly noticeable performancegap between both *earbuds*, so even the more expensive rolemodel got a positive review. So all in all it is a positive article for both *earbuds*, because if you can spare $1099,-- for *earbuds*, then you will not even consider to look at the kz lineup anyway.


IEMs


----------



## Willber

Jay Magaling said:


> So the vido earbuds drivers would fit the ZS3? Wow. Those buds are extremely cheap you can get them for $2 a pop. But is it recommend to use an earbud driver and put it on am IEM shell?


I seem to remember @CoiL putting a VE Monk driver into an ATE shell with a custom back added.


----------



## Saoshyant

groucho69 said:


> .



Larry Hovis (the American)...  Nice guy, can't believe it's already been almost 15 years since he died.


----------



## Strat Rider

Superluc said:


> Beer, it's whats for dinner!


----------



## NeonHD (Jan 8, 2018)

Apparently it seems that the KZ ED3 is completely sold out on both eBay and Aliexpress. However if you're really that desperate to get the ED3 as a collector's item, there's this one eBay seller selling it for around $22, which is like 3x the regular price (and the seller is quite sketchy too). Just thought I'd let people here know. Thankfully I still have mines (the Acme model) and they are quite a good sounding IEM for the price. Great instrument separation and soundstage too.


----------



## vegetaleb

Finally got my QKZ W1 Pro today!
The sound quality is really impressive for the price, now how to mod them? drilling holes mod?


----------



## bsoplinger

vegetaleb said:


> Finally got my QKZ W1 Pro today!
> The sound quality is really impressive for the price, now how to mod them? drilling holes mod?


How do they compare to the DM200 since I grabbed a pair of those for $4 on 11.11? Out of curiosity, are either actual KZ designs or just models (Q)KZ manufacturs for someone else?


----------



## CoiL

Willber said:


> I seem to remember @CoiL putting a VE Monk driver into an ATE shell with a custom back added.


That`s wrong, LOL  Monk driver wouldn`t fit into ATE shell.
ATE FF-mod You talk about is just heavily modified ATE.
VE Monk driver I just reshelled with wood and made into IEM, that`s the VE NUN mod You can see on my avatar.


----------



## hydroid

I have extracted my spare ZST's driver which is very challenging to do...tons of glue everywhere..lol. For the love of the ZS3 shell, I will try experimenting whether the ZST's driver will sound good on zs3's shell. Fitting the 10mm driver requires extra work.,more cutting here and there until you find enough room for it. I'm not technical enough so I'll just do trial and error. Any inputs from experts are very much welcome. Hoping for the best.,


----------



## nkramer

wishing you good luck & happy modding.


----------



## Willber

CoiL said:


> That`s wrong, LOL  Monk driver wouldn`t fit into ATE shell.
> ATE FF-mod You talk about is just heavily modified ATE.
> VE Monk driver I just reshelled with wood and made into IEM, that`s the VE NUN mod You can see on my avatar.


Doh! I knew you'd done something with something and come up with something else!


----------



## xxxreyxxx

hi guys, i'm planning to upgrade my kz zs5's cable but i'm so confused about it cause of many variant of the cable so do you guys have recommendation which one should i chose ?


----------



## Superluc

xxxreyxxx said:


> hi guys, i'm planning to upgrade my kz zs5's cable but i'm so confused about it cause of many variant of the cable so do you guys have recommendation which one should i chose ?


https://aliexpress.com/store/produc...108.1000016.1.3706dca2wUaaYD&isOrigTitle=true


----------



## Pruikki (Jan 9, 2018)

This is some form of futuristic English? 





I bet its not comfortable to wear out your ears... Instructions unclear, Ears worn off...


----------



## riffrafff

xxxreyxxx said:


> hi guys, i'm planning to upgrade my kz zs5's cable but i'm so confused about it cause of many variant of the cable so do you guys have recommendation which one should i chose ?



This one is working for me, so far.  

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html


----------



## paulindss

Can anyone Tell me, listening to koss porta pro are similar to listening to a earbud, or open back headphones in terms of ayriness and soundstage ?


----------



## xxxreyxxx

Superluc said:


> https://aliexpress.com/store/produc...108.1000016.1.3706dca2wUaaYD&isOrigTitle=true


whats differentf from silver cable ?
does it provide better sound quality?


----------



## govie

xxxreyxxx said:


> whats differentf from silver cable ?
> does it provide better sound quality?



From what I have read in this thread and reviews online is that a different cable is not noticable in soundquality with the zs5 and zs6. The only reason they took another cable was iirc that the memorywire was annoying for some people.


----------



## ivo001

xxxreyxxx said:


> whats differentf from silver cable ?
> does it provide better sound quality?



Better flexibility and comfort and less cable noise (microphonics).
Sound is the same.
I like the looks of the black one that I got on my grey ZS5.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...&terminal_id=ca265a0eed6f42ff9409333d0070a86e


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 9, 2018)

xxxreyxxx said:


> hi guys, i'm planning to upgrade my kz zs5's cable but i'm so confused about it cause of many variant of the cable so do you guys have recommendation which one should i chose ?


i got one cable at least of every kind of replaceable ones for KZs.
My fav one (best conductivity, light and comfortable) is:




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ord-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ/32788061546.html (the clear one!)

note that this one is completely different to the one sold by gearbest: note the black rings in the plug (vs white rings in gearbest's); conductivity is double than gearbest's. it works with KZs ZST, ES3, ZS5, ZS6, etc. and sits flush.

next candidate is:




(you can find it in some places).

in theory, the wire with wider total section (if same material) should have better conductivity (less resistance). but this has a bit worse conductivity than the posted above. however, it's about double conductivity than the other cables (stock and replaceable).
when used with ZS5/ZS6, you can trim all the protruding white plastic to make them sit flush. and you may also want to remove the rigid ear guides.
premium look, the softest one, less microphonic, but it's bigger and heavier than the posted above.


----------



## riffrafff

hakuzen said:


> i got one cable at least of every kind of replaceable ones for KZs.
> My fav one (best conductivity, light and comfortable) is:
> 
> 
> ...




Hi.  I'd be interested in knowing what resistance readings you're getting on the wires in your top picture.


----------



## Superluc

ivo001 said:


> Better flexibility and comfort and less cable noise (microphonics).
> Sound is the same.


----------



## hakuzen (Jun 10, 2019)

ATTENTION: this post is not being updated anymore.
go to https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/
to watch last updated lists.
*

DC RESISTANCE AND IMPRESSIONS OF SOME CABLES FOR KZs (BELOW $40, approx., MOST BELOW $25)*

resistance, in mΩ: left, right, groundL [, groundR] or L+, R+, L-, R- (balanced), and [weight], in g.

for more expensive cables, mmcx, and others, and more detailed info and pics, check:
*DC resistance of some cables (below 400mΩ, average)*

measured with high precision multimeter.
low resistance is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).

notations:
wire material: spc= silver/tin/alloy plated copper; ofc: oxygen-free-copper; <num>c=number of cores
color: silver= white/silver; copper= orange/pink; brown= brown/dark copper; gold= yellow
chinese jack style (metallic): eid= eidolic; oyde= oyaide; furt=furutech
2pins: curved=angled plug; tA=0.75; tB=0.78; tC=curved for zsn available

"upgrade" (separately sold):
(065) jc ally 5n ofc/tpc 4c (copper,cheap furt,tC).........88/86..89/89..90/82..92/93..[36]
(065) jc ally 5n spc/ofc 4c (dark blue,cheap furt,tC)....84..*184*..80..107..[34.4]
(066) jcally 5n tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,tC)..................*249*..130..126..126..[29.2]
(053) hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,slim plugs).......................110 average (115 mmcx) many measured
(053) hck tdy1 spc 8c (silver,slim plugs)......................134..163..132..148 (silver plated)
(052) spc 8c (gold,eid).................................................96..99..91..104
(051) spc 8c (grey,eid)................................................128..128..126..138..[27.4]
(052) spc 8c (silver,eid)...............................................134/126..127/126..129/127..129/129
(052) spc+ofc 8c (silver+copper,eid)...........................135/131..131/132..190/184..208/240
(052) spc 8c (copper,eid)............................................180..average (many measured)
(052) spc 8c (brown,eid).............................................188..188..185..185
(060) hck ct3 ofc 8c (brown,furt).................................206/210..206/204..200/205..*486*/195
(055) spc 16c (silver,oyde)..........................................221..218..221..232
(070) spc 16c (pink,eid)...............................................240..240..237..252
(063) hck tdy3 tpc 16c (black,furt)...............................223..226..225..230
(062) hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt)................................*402*..259..239..244
(054) lz 6n frozen copper 8c (brown)...........................240..240..240..300
(155) "silver" spc 8c (silver,eid)...................................256/254..258/249..245/245..260/246
(050) spc 8c (black,oyde)............................................260..270..260..260
(059) kz spc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,tC)..........................281..278..250..255..[17.9]
(057) hck spc 8c (silver,furt)........................................310..303..302..319
(061) hck tdy4 spc 8c (black,furt)................................350..average..(many measured)
(056) trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (black+silver,cheapBal furt).*423*/*414*..219/216..289/244..*150*/223
(056) trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (yellow+silver,cheapBal furt).*429*..289..265..*137*
(056) trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (yellow+silver,cheap furt).....*454*..219..*135*..267
(058) kz spc+ofc 8c tA (silver+copper,oyde)................216..213..479..503 (diff wires)
(058) kz spc+ofc 8c tB (silver+copper,oyde)................541..552..222..220 (diff wires)
(031) kz curved spc 4c (silver/transp,jack black rings).350/360/400..350/370/390..350/370/400
(050) spc 8c (gold,oyde).............................................346..*636*..374..443
(014) kz zsn spc 4c (copper,tC)...................................415..425..445..595
(038) kzx4197 spc 8c (silver,metal plugs)....................430..avg (many tested, green/blue patina)
(042) trn curved spc 4c (silver,thick coat,metal)..........570..520..520
(015) kz zsn spc 4c (silver,tC)......................................607..630..653..648
(030) kz straight spc 4c (silver)....................................670/700..670/700..670/700
(040) kz straight ofc spc 4c (grey,thick coat)................690..700..680
(032) kz curved spc 4c (silver,jack white rings)............630/760..600/620..610/830
(034) spc (orange,transparent plugs)..........................700..700..700
(035) spc (grey,transparent plugs)...............................640..790..660
(043) trn curved spc 4c (black,thick coat)..710/720/710..730/750/750..700/730/860..730/740/740

stock curved type:
(014) kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper)............................415..425..445..595
(014) kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (copper).....................395/423..*1011*/*1249*..401/494..647/711
(006) kz es3 stock mic...............................................660..660..660..680
(008) kz zsr stock mic................................................640..640..880
(017) kz as06 stock (braided)....................................775..797..784..811
(012) kz as10 stock mic (braided) .............................876..876..903..905
(002) kz zst stock mic.................................................950..870..870
(009) kz zs10 stock mic..............................................850..*1220*..940..780
(011) kz zsa stock mic (braided).................................876..*1179*..862..764
(016) kz zsn stock spc 4c (brown)..............................961..701..825..771
(016) kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (brown)........................*2260*..*1161*..831..815

stock straight type:
(007) kz zs6 stock.......................................................700..600..390
(004) kz zs5 stock.......................................................660..630..380
(013) kz zs4 stock mic.................................................689..767..686..701
(019) cca c10 stock (braided).....................................816..818..831..818
(000) kz zs3 stock mic.................................................840..840..840
(018) kz zs7 stock mic (braided).................................*1165*..*1133*..*1159*..814



Spoiler: pics, impressions, and some links of upgrade cables for KZs



*065*. jc ally 5n painted ofc/spc 4c (various colors,cheap furt,tC)
structure: 0.08mm*63(22AWG)*4c pvc sleeve. 500D fiber yarn, to absorb moisture.
they say copper is plated, and then painted. various colors and combinations available. some versions come with a nice small soft fabric zipper pouch.
superb conductivity, due to thickness of cable.
the jack is low quality, though (it's the same than cable 056, trn). this could explain the soldering issues in some units (small space, some threads of positive signal cores are not well soldered).
zsn termination (c-type) is intended for QDC and BQEYZ: pins are inverted polarity respect KZs,
colors are nice, but i'd prefer to achieve it by coloring sleeves, rather than painting conductor.

copper 5n ofc/spc? not painted?: 88/86..89/89..90/82..92/93..[36g]





dark blue painted 5n spc: 84..*184*..80..107..[34.4g]





4 colors painted (these are the plugs i got with dark blue cable; cheap look)





gold painted 5n spc
...

possible wire used: http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=6229 (not accurate structure, doubtful quality)
or: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32945488579.html (more accurate structure, doubtful quality)
(although conductor quality doesn't match; it's probably 4N or 5N ofc, like jc ally claims)





links:
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957936506.html
silver+gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32960771422.html
gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32958004749.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959362129.html
dark blue:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957229163.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959322283.html
silver+dark blue:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957125438.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957189326.html
4 colors:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959266536.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957113799.html
copper (not painted?, more expensive):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32954964343.html


*066*. jcally 5n painted tpc 8c (black,cheap furt,tC)
structure: 0.07mm*25(27awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG]. 500D nylon. 0.4u plated thickness. anti-oxidation protective paint. pvc sleeve, various colors.
nice conductivity. but i don't like this kind of cheap furutech styled jack (one signal core is not well soldered; small space for solder?).
softer and more flexible than 065.
good enough for not very resolving iems.
zsn termination (c-type) is intended for QDC and BQEYZ: pins are inverted polarity respect KZs,

black (zsn version): *249*..130..126..126..[29.2g]





silver: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




gold: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




links:
black:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32994432994.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959286936.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32965501955.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971877740.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32965649117.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957213673.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32944517378.html
silver:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955789068.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957846448.html
gold:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32947859742.html


*053*.
great conductivity. some details (strain reliefs, easier repairable plugs) are better in (052). this wire is thicker, softer but less flexible. weight: 27.2g. variants: copper/ mixed copper & silver plated / silver plated (various colors, worse conductivity though).
structure could be: 0.10mm*19(25awg)*8c [2c/signal:22.5AWG]. if true, and wire material/plugs were better quality, it'd measure about 95mΩ (15-20mΩ less).
however, different color versions use different wire.
decent sound and quality and superb conductivity for the price.

hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,slim plugs): 110..avg (115 mmcx)..[27g]..many measured





hck tdy1 spc 8c (silver,slim plugs): 134/155..163/150..132/138..148/152




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32916162030.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32914622984.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32913860097.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32913561570.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32913617162.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32916975214.html


*052*. oem (various re-branded) chinese cable.
good conductivity, very well built, quite long threaded (repairable and trimmable) plugs.
ofc or tin/alloy plated ofc (unsure, each color use different wire).
0.08mm*19(27awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG] or 0.10mm*19(25awg)*8c [2c/signal:22.5AWG].
various terminations, colors: gold, silver, silver+copper, copper, brown, black.
soft and flexible, but in different grades (like conductivity), depending of the wire and color.

oem spc 8c (gold,eid): 96..99..91..104..[27.5]
BEWARE: version with gold plated jack (instead of nickel/rhodium) is being sent from some shops; different wire, resistance ~235mΩ





oem spc 8c (silver,eid): 130..avg..many measured





oem spc+ofc? 8c (silver+copper,eid): 135/131..131/132..190/184..208/240
one type of conductor used for signal, the other type for ground (cold, in balanced)





oem spc 8c (copper,eid): 180..avg..[24.7]..(many measured, the most flexible)





oem spc 8c (brown,eid): 188..188..185..185
...

possible wire used:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32911867550.html

links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32881372793.html (last sent was the worst conductivity version)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32989617222.html (don't know which version they'll send)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32900868698.html (don't know which version they'll send)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32880388943.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32882694116.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32992895977.html
(there are other shops and re-brands)


*051*. tpc 8c (grey,eid): 128..128..126..138..[27.4g]
very similar to cables 052. same jacks and strain reliefs, but different termination plugs (2pins plug is flush, not protruding; different splitter and chin slider).
wire could be similar quality to the best 052s.






*155*. oem (various re-brands) silver spc 8c (silver,eid): 256/254..258/249..245/245..260/246..[23.4g]
advertised as pure silver, it's spc, or even tin/alloy plated copper.
it's funny to see prices going from $80 ("pure silver") to $27 at different shops. the cable is identical.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32963189583.html nicehck cy1
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32963249926.html nicehck vs audio
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32982939514.html toneking avckck
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32964307166.html antcodo (way cheapest!, various terminations, but not 2.5/4.4mm)
(there are other shops and re-brands)


*060*. hck ct3 ofc 8c (brown,furt): 206/210..206/204..200/205..486/195
best conductivity and build quality in the cheapest segment (<$10) cables.
very soft and flexible. blue point marks ground/- pin.
sound is acceptable.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971728152.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32974695270.html


*055*. spc 16c (silver,oyde): 221/232..218/236..221/221..232/235
16 cores, but worse conductivity than some cheaper 8 cores. (50) is its 8 cores sibling. very soft and flexible, though.
silver:






*070*. spc 16c (pink,eid): 240..240..237..252..[22.2g]
ultra soft and flexible. nice color for pink lovers. better jack (my fav) than other 16 cores cables.
decent sound.






*063*. hck tdy3 spc 16c (black,furt): 223..226..225..230
again, not remarkable conductivity being a 16 cores wire.
very soft and flexible. not ear guides. blue point marks ground/- pin.
decent sound.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32953432742.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32956603145.html
*

062*. hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt): 402..259..239..244
worse conductivity (narrower conductor) than its 8 cores sibling.
very soft and flexible. not ear guides. blue point marks ground/- pin.
decent sound.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32954926911.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32953516959.html


*050*. 2pins version is wrong molded for kz (but good for BQEYZ, for example) in the 2 units i own -watch phase!-. you can remold the ear guides. soft and flexible.
various colors and terminations.

spc 8c (black,oyde): 260..270..260..260





spc 8c (gold,oyde): 346..636..374..443





links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32889396437.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32854751277.html


*059*. kz spc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,tC): 281..278..250..255..[17.9g]
kz upgrade cable.
structure: 0.05mm*25(30awg)*8c, equivalent to 27AWG per signal. silver color alloy plated + gold color alloy plated ofc (of course it's not true silver and gold plated).
terminations available: 2pins type A (0.75mm), type C (zsn, 0.75mm), mmcx.
only 3.5mm jack (single end) found.
it uses more even spc wires (silver color alloy plated and gold color alloy plated ofc copper) than last kz cable (058), so you don't find so high and random resistance difference.
good conductivity for the price, decent jack, good strain reliefs, it's last and best upgrade cable made by kz now.






*057*. nicehck spc 8 cores. very well built, but thin wire, so conductivity is far worse than (052). various colors (and materials?). light and very flexible.
hck spc 8c (silver,furt): 310..303..302..319




copper:




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32884233509.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955497775.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32883824667.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955513689.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32859444405.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32959059115.html


*061*. hck tdy4 spc 8c (black,furt): 350..average..(many measured)
quite lower conductivity than copper version (narrower conductor).
very soft and flexible. blue point marks ground/- pin.
sound is acceptable.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32973046302.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971785145.html
*

056*. trn spc 6nocc 8c tA (various colors,cheapBal furt).
trn 8 cores cable.
advertised structure is: 0.08mm*25(26awg)*8c [2c/signal:.~23AWG], "6N monocrystalline occ copper, plated with 85 microns of extruded silver, kevlar fiber reinforced" (judging by the price, it could be alloy plated ofc copper). PE sleeve.
but it looks more of 0.07mm*25(27.2awg)*8c [2c/signal:24AWG], given the resistance values.
the wire looks great (very low resistance), the plugs and splitter look cheap (black color hides this better). available in 0.75mm, 0.78mm, mmcx, and 3.5mm, 2.5mm (balanced),
it would be great if they right soldered the cores; only 1 core for some signals, and possibly, many strands of the cores broken while soldering. very poor solder work.
you won't notice the difference between left and right, in volume (<0.2dB imbalance), but i don't like this uneven measures, it spoils the purpose of using a decent wire. left signal could be lost with time (very few strands of only one core have been soldered).

black and silver: *423*/*414*..219/216..289/244..*150*/223





gold and silver: *429*/*454*..289/219..265/*135*..*137*/267






*058*. kz upgrade 8 cores cable. two types of wire used (copper and sliver plated copper), which have very different resistance. one type is used for signals (left, right), the other type for ground (cold signals in balanced). the problem is that you can't know which material is used for each (got 2 cables, different configuration; it seems random). dunno why they don't use one core of each type for each signal (that would be real copper+spc mixed), if possible.
in one cable, right plug was molded reversed for kz (had to use a hair dresser to remold it).






*031*. great value, difficult to find now (*black rings* in jack)






*014*. kz zsn spc 4c (copper,tC), no mic: 415..425..445..595
structure could be 0.05mm*2530AWG)*4cores of ofc copper.
stock zsn cable, sold separately, very affordable.
curved A-type (0.75mm) also available.




links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32956297616.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32981135983.html


*038*. great value, turns green/blue soon (pairs ok with green/blue and cyan KZ models)






*042*.






*015*. kz zsn spc 4c (silver,tC)
25 threads of silver plated copper plus kevlar fiber into each core.
structure could be 0.04mm*25(32AWG)*4cores.






*030*. first classic kz 4 cores upgrade cable (silver color), straight plug.






*040*.






*032*. first classic kz 4 cores upgrade cable (silver color), curved plug. white rings in jack.






*034*.






*035*.






*043*.







edits: added more cables and pics


----------



## nkramer

nice work.


----------



## riffrafff

hakuzen said:


> DC resistance of KZ cables (read by DMMs), in ohms (left, right, and ground):
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6) plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings)   0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40  <- this is number one (above post)
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6+trim) plated+metal plug+6cords   0.42/43/45/52/42/43 0.43/43/45/44/43/44 0.44/43/45/42/44/43  <- this is number two
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6) plated (4cords,white,gearbest)       0.63/76   0.60/62   0.61/83
> ...




Cool.  Thanks for that.   

Yeah, that's about what I got on my GearBest white cable (the only one I had with me today at work),  On an HP 34401A 6-1/2 digit DMM in 4-wire (Kelvin sensing) mode, I got 0.609, 0.616, and 0.599 Ohms.   May have to check it on our HP 3458A 8-1/2 digit lab standard, just for fun.


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## bsoplinger (Jan 9, 2018)

I still think this style is the better choice in cable upgrade, even if it may require trimming the earphone end to make it fit flush.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lat...e-0-75mm-2-Pin-2-PIN-Upgrade/32823059586.html

This style is available from a number of sellers for about this price. This particular seller has e-packet shipping to the USA instead of aliexpress.com standard shipping which is why I linked it versus another seller. I haven't ordered from this seller but a few others and I can say that aliexpress.com standard shipping is sloooowwwww.


----------



## HungryPanda

I ordered :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077JZW2HD/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item_image


----------



## Duncan

Quite liking the ZS6, seems much easier to drive than the ZS5, which is a win.

Different tip preferences between the two, which is puzzling me


----------



## Duncan

One thing I know about the ZS6 (and to a lesser extent the ZS5) is that I have to use different tips to normal, for all other IEMs, I end up using wide bore large MandarinES tips, but if I do that with these KZ IEMs, my ears quite literally get incenerated by the super hot treble, so I have to down size to the normal bore medium MandarinES...  

These are most definitely the most tip dependent IEMs that I've ever owned.


----------



## hakuzen

Duncan said:


> Quite liking the ZS6, seems much easier to drive than the ZS5, which is a win.
> 
> Different tip preferences between the two, which is puzzling me


sure zs6 is easier to drive than zs5 v1.
you can find their impedance curve in this thread, along with their fr when using different tips (nice effect of foam tips on zs6 to tame their highs peaks) (search from my posts)


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 20, 2019)

*Various KZs measurements and discussions*

fr and impedance:
zs5v1 vs zs6 fr: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1526#post-13766133
zs5 v1 vs zst: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1540#post-13771730
zs5 v1 vs zs6 impedance: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060
es3: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1525#post-13765816

taming zs6 treble peaks (vs zs5 v1):
zs6 tip rolling: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1527#post-13766425
zs6 with impedance adapter: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787
zs6 eq: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1617#post-13813287

driving zs5 v1:
zs5 source dependency: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918
zs5 drive: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1630#post-13819958

cables:
dc resistance: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1787#post-13964853
zs6 cables: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1532#post-13767309

zs7:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2738#post-14730627


----------



## Duncan

Great resource hakuzen!

Shame that this thread is for all the models KZ make, your post could easily be a first post sticky if this was a dedicated thread!

Thank you!


----------



## hakuzen

Duncan said:


> Great resource hakuzen!
> 
> Shame that this thread is for all the models KZ make, your post could easily be a first post sticky if this was a dedicated thread!
> 
> Thank you!


my pleasure.. not for a sticky, but liked to join these posts because they were too dispersed and difficult to find.
i've got many kzs models around.. when my last rig is ready, i'll might measure all them (fr and impedance) to create a sticky, if suitable.


----------



## paulindss

One doubt. I had buyed a Xioami piston colorful edition on gearbest more than a year Ago. At the time i only had KZ ate. The pistons 3 Where praised so well that i expected them to be on par or best than my KZ. I did some research and the pistons colorful edition should sound the same or close to original pistons 3. Well, i was Very dissapointed when they arrived. They Just sounded bad, with a Very low volume and with no punch. Anyone listened to these colorful Edition ? I heard someone talk well about pistons fresh Edition and It made me remind this. Maybe i got s falsefied piston ? They sounded so cheap by the time that i have never touched them again, and i think i lost them. They were Very cheap $$, so i was'nt actually mad, bit they were supossed to sound Very good. And they sounded Just like a earbud that comes with a ordinary smartphone. Like the Samsungs That comes with Galaxy S3, s4 etc. This is How they Would sound ? Or maybe New pistons deserve a bet. They could make a good gift.


----------



## xxxreyxxx

hakuzen said:


> i got one cable at least of every kind of replaceable ones for KZs.
> My fav one (best conductivity, light and comfortable) is:
> 
> 
> ...


I think this one not compatible with ZS5 cause of the different connector


----------



## ShakyJake

hakuzen said:


> fr and impedance:
> zs5v1 vs zs6 fr: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1526#post-13766133
> zs5 v1 vs zst: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1540#post-13771730
> zs5 v1 vs zs6 impedance: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060
> ...



Thanks for all your measurements!

Speaking of cables, does anyone know of a ZS6/ZS5/ZS3 upgrade cable with a microphone and or controls. I really miss not being able to answer the phone and/or skip tracks with my silver upgrade cable.


----------



## NeonHD (Jan 10, 2018)

Don't know how legit this is, but I just found this earphone on eBay called the QKZ CK5 and it looks EXACTLY like the KZ ES3 but rebranded as "QKZ".
Do you know what's crazy though? Apparently they only cost $3! That's right, *three bucks*!!! 

Regardless whether they're legit or not, I'm gonna pull the trigger and buy them just cause it's only $3. Once I get them, I will report back on here whether if it's fake or real. I'm really hoping on the latter as the original ES3 costs like 5x the price of that, so $3 would basically be considered free 

Here's the link if anyone else wants to take the risk: https://www.ebay.com/itm/QKZ-CK5-Sp...dphones-Transparent-Bass-Earbuds/382289320952


----------



## hakuzen

xxxreyxxx said:


> I think this one not compatible with ZS5 cause of the different connector


you ought to try, instead of thinking and guessing..
 



ShakyJake said:


> Thanks for all your measurements!
> 
> Speaking of cables, does anyone know of a ZS6/ZS5/ZS3 upgrade cable with a microphone and or controls. I really miss not being able to answer the phone and/or skip tracks with my silver upgrade cable.


you're welcome. i don't know if that cable exists, but remember kz pins diameter is about 0.72mm.
"standard" 0.78mm 2-pin cables (you can find these cables with mic) would force the holes, if you manage to fit them, and kz cables will be loose after that.


----------



## hakuzen

paulindss said:


> One doubt. I had buyed a Xioami piston colorful edition on gearbest more than a year Ago. At the time i only had KZ ate. The pistons 3 Where praised so well that i expected them to be on par or best than my KZ. I did some research and the pistons colorful edition should sound the same or close to original pistons 3. Well, i was Very dissapointed when they arrived. They Just sounded bad, with a Very low volume and with no punch. Anyone listened to these colorful Edition ? I heard someone talk well about pistons fresh Edition and It made me remind this. Maybe i got s falsefied piston ? They sounded so cheap by the time that i have never touched them again, and i think i lost them. They were Very cheap $$, so i was'nt actually mad, bit they were supossed to sound Very good. And they sounded Just like a earbud that comes with a ordinary smartphone. Like the Samsungs That comes with Galaxy S3, s4 etc. This is How they Would sound ? Or maybe New pistons deserve a bet. They could make a good gift.


loved the pistons 3 (bought about 10 pairs, kept 2 of them). but true piston 3 are discontinued, or can't find them anywhere at least. many models have inherited "piston" name, from the same manufacturer, but guess none is like original piston 3.
anyway, i think some cheaper kz iems are better overall than piston 3, so i don't miss them.


----------



## paulindss (Jan 10, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> loved the pistons 3 (bought about 10 pairs, kept 2 of them). but true piston 3 are discontinued, or can't find them anywhere at least. many models have inherited "piston" name, from the same manufacturer, but guess none is like original piston 3.
> anyway, i think some cheaper kz iems are better overall than piston 3, so i don't miss them.


 
Thx for the answer and sorry if this is off topict, i thought i was in another thread LoL.


----------



## jaydm99

NeonHD said:


> Don't know how legit this is, but I just found this earphone on eBay called the QKZ CK5 and it looks EXACTLY like the KZ ES3 but rebranded as "QKZ".
> Do you know what's crazy though? Apparently they only cost $3! That's right, *three bucks*!!!
> 
> Regardless whether they're legit or not, I'm gonna pull the trigger and buy them just cause it's only $3. Once I get them, I will report back on here whether if it's fake or real. I'm really hoping on the latter as the original ES3 costs like 5x the price of that, so $3 would basically be considered free
> ...


That came out even before the ES3


----------



## SomeTechNoob

paulindss said:


> One doubt. I had buyed a Xioami piston colorful edition on gearbest more than a year Ago. At the time i only had KZ ate. The pistons 3 Where praised so well that i expected them to be on par or best than my KZ. I did some research and the pistons colorful edition should sound the same or close to original pistons 3. Well, i was Very dissapointed when they arrived. They Just sounded bad, with a Very low volume and with no punch. Anyone listened to these colorful Edition ? I heard someone talk well about pistons fresh Edition and It made me remind this. Maybe i got s falsefied piston ? They sounded so cheap by the time that i have never touched them again, and i think i lost them. They were Very cheap $$, so i was'nt actually mad, bit they were supossed to sound Very good. And they sounded Just like a earbud that comes with a ordinary smartphone. Like the Samsungs That comes with Galaxy S3, s4 etc. This is How they Would sound ? Or maybe New pistons deserve a bet. They could make a good gift.



I had the Xiaomi Piston 3, Piston Colorful, Piston Basic, and Piston Youth edition.  Early versions of the youth and colorful editions sounded extremely similar to the Piston 3.  However, newer IEMs like the KZ ZST and ZS5 completely outclass them in terms of sound now.  The Piston 3s just sound tiny and muddy by comparison.


----------



## ivo001

Duncan said:


> One thing I know about the ZS6 (and to a lesser extent the ZS5) is that I have to use different tips to normal, for all other IEMs, I end up using wide bore large MandarinES tips, but if I do that with these KZ IEMs, my ears quite literally get incenerated by the super hot treble, so I have to down size to the normal bore medium MandarinES...
> 
> These are most definitely the most tip dependent IEMs that I've ever owned.



Was just looking at these MandarinES tips. Which one would fit the ZS5? Symbio N or Symbio W? Not too sure about the nozzle sizes of the ZS5 and the ZST.


----------



## hoerlurar

NeonHD said:


> Don't know how legit this is, but I just found this earphone on eBay called the QKZ CK5 and it looks EXACTLY like the KZ ES3 but rebranded as "QKZ".
> Do you know what's crazy though? Apparently they only cost $3! That's right, *three bucks*!!!
> 
> Regardless whether they're legit or not, I'm gonna pull the trigger and buy them just cause it's only $3. Once I get them, I will report back on here whether if it's fake or real. I'm really hoping on the latter as the original ES3 costs like 5x the price of that, so $3 would basically be considered free
> ...



looks like fonge t01 as well: http://www.aproear.co.uk/fonge-t01-sport-earphone/
I bought one as a christmas gift, and it sounded ok from the quick listening i did before gifting them.


----------



## Pruikki

*UPDATE
*
ES3 arrived too, it was fine, i like it. not as bassy and fun as ZS3 but for music its good the ES3. Worth it.

*BUT ZS3 defective again*

KZ ZS3 ordered on November AND December BOTH are DEFECTIVE BATCH!

my second ZS3 Arrived today,A replacement. And guess what...It too is Defective same problem, Right side is dead.

*-Lets see how Gearbest will respond, the gave partial refund the first time, now i think they will not...  Stay tuned perhaps.
*
This just sucks...


----------



## Pruikki

NeonHD said:


> Don't know how legit this is, but I just found this earphone on eBay called the QKZ CK5 and it looks EXACTLY like the KZ ES3 but rebranded as "QKZ".
> Do you know what's crazy though? Apparently they only cost $3! That's right, *three bucks*!!!
> 
> Regardless whether they're legit or not, I'm gonna pull the trigger and buy them just cause it's only $3. Once I get them, I will report back on here whether if it's fake or real. I'm really hoping on the latter as the original ES3 costs like 5x the price of that, so $3 would basically be considered free
> ...


Yeah i ordered them too for 2.55€ + shipping some 0,30 € or so under 3 dollarinos.

Lest see if the cable fits ES3 yeah! Stay tuned to see the results


----------



## hakuzen

paulindss said:


> Thx for the answer and sorry if this is off topict, i thought i was in another thread LoL.


no problem, it's not off topic.


----------



## trumpethead

Pruikki said:


> *UPDATE
> *
> ES3 arrived too, it was fine, i like it. not as bassy and fun as ZS3 but for music its good the ES3. Worth it.
> 
> ...


----------



## hoerlurar

Pruikki said:


> Yeah i ordered them too for 2.55€ + shipping some 0,30 € or so under 3 dollarinos.
> 
> Lest see if the cable fits ES3 yeah! Stay tuned to see the results



I don't think the cable is detachable, it wasn't on the Fonge


----------



## jkaudio (Jan 11, 2018)

Hello, I want to ask for help.

I like my KZ ES3. Stage, treble, mids, better bass than ZST, but no boomy like hybrid Xiaomi, decent sub-bass. The best earphones compared to my IEM (Xiaomi hybrid, KZ ZST, KZ ATR, KZ ZSE). The only downside is the memory wire.

All in all I did find my holy grail. In terms of sound I got much more, than I paied.

I am looking for *Over-Ear* confortable budget headphones for my wife, with same sound signature like KZ ES3.

I look at Sony MDR-ZX310, but never heared them.

Sound source will be mp3 player Benjie X1.

Any advice appriciated. Thank you.


----------



## chi-fi mel

hoerlurar said:


> I don't think the cable is detachable, it wasn't on the Fonge


The cable is not detachable and for 3 bucks you can find better sounding earphones.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Don't know if anyone already posted this, but the KZ ZSR can be now bought for USD 16.99 at Gearbest. Just use the code KZZSR. That's USD 18.43 with the cheapest shipping option.


----------



## JayceOoi

Yeah... Just tested. KZ ZSR @ $16.99 with code - KZZSR is working. Thanks. 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1512920.html


----------



## hydroid

SiggyFraud said:


> Don't know if anyone already posted this, but the KZ ZSR can be now bought for USD 16.99 at Gearbest. Just use the code KZZSR. That's USD 18.43 with the cheapest shipping option.



Smh..I just placed my order before reading this..geat offer indeed..


----------



## zozito

hydroid said:


> Smh..I just placed my order before reading this..geat offer indeed..



It is not the ZS5 a better option right now? Can be buyed at even low price...


----------



## hydroid

zozito said:


> It is not the ZS5 a better option right now? Can be buyed at even low price...



Yeah. But it's because of the design that's why I chose the ZSR..might do some driver swapping in the future if the sound of the zsr is not according to my preference.


----------



## ivo001

SiggyFraud said:


> Don't know if anyone already posted this, but the KZ ZSR can be now bought for USD 16.99 at Gearbest. Just use the code KZZSR. That's USD 18.43 with the cheapest shipping option.



Thanks, I could not resist lol. Planned to wait on reviews but I think I got the KZ sickness. Already got the ZS5 and ZST, and ZS3 still on the way.
After watching the promo video, I decided that I like the black version more then the translucent green, which look too much like plastic kids toys to me.
$18,52 including shipping.


----------



## zozito

hydroid said:


> Yeah. But it's because of the design that's why I chose the ZSR..might do some driver swapping in the future if the sound of the zsr is not according to my preference.


Ummm...interesting!


----------



## Pruikki

jkaudio said:


> Hello, I want to ask for help.
> 
> I like my KZ ES3. Stage, treble, mids, better bass than ZST, but no boomy like hybrid Xiaomi, decent sub-bass. The best earphones compared to my IEM (Xiaomi hybrid, KZ ZST, KZ ATR, KZ ZSE). The only downside is the memory wire.
> 
> ...


Perhaps KZ ZS6?  if ES3 was good for you, it is supposed to be slighty better.
thats all i can think of as of now.


----------



## Pruikki

JayceOoi said:


> Yeah... Just tested. KZ ZSR @ $16.99 with code - KZZSR is working. Thanks.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1512920.html



Thanks, Just odreded  one in green.

about 15€ , Just for the fun of it.
might have chosen Zs5 but it is not as comfy so not an option.

ZSR seems,i speculate, to me as if will be super sibilant KZ ever. ssSSss...like earpiercing sibilant.
 But lets see how it will be.


----------



## EISENbricher

Was looking at my earphone collection today and noticed that all KZ are still in good shape. None of the earphone that I've used from KZ is retired.
While I haven't used all of them intensively, I can still vouch for the durability. Had used EDSE, ATE, ED8, ED9, ZN1mini for multiple months (longest used is ED9) still all work as good as new.

A small problem though, usual KZ cables get sticky and smell bad if kept in storage for a long time. Some friends here informed that this is due to humidity. I then placed the earphones in an air-tight box with silica gel packets and the problem went away.


----------



## ivo001

Is there a quality difference between the regular and mic cables? 
And does anybody know if the ZS5 upgrade cable fits the ZSR? Or would I need a cable with the ZST pin size?

I can do some nice mix and match when the ZSR arrives haha, I will have the 0.75mm en 0.78mm bluetooth cables, zst and zs5 stock cables, zs5 upgrade cable (grey) and then the zsr mic cable.


----------



## paulindss (Jan 11, 2018)

I Said to myself and in a post here in another thread that i wasn't buying anything untill i got a tin audio T2. Well, It looks like a i am a bitch with no words. Just got a zsr @17$ with chances of it sounding not that good. I'm betting on you KZ

Edit: I never bought a KZ soon on launch, will the firsts ZSR come in a special box like the firsts KZ zs5 ? I Hope but i don't think so.


----------



## Superluc

paulindss said:


> will the firsts ZSR come in a special box like the firsts KZ zs5 ? I Hope but i don't think so.


For what i have read, those special box were originally for chinese market alone, then someone order those but on some specific sellers. 

Gearbest always sell Kz's cheaper international package.


----------



## nkramer

ivo001 said:


> Is there a quality difference between the regular and mic cables?
> And does anybody know if the ZS5 upgrade cable fits the ZSR? Or would I need a cable with the ZST pin size?
> 
> I can do some nice mix and match when the ZSR arrives haha, I will have the 0.75mm en 0.78mm bluetooth cables, zst and zs5 stock cables, zs5 upgrade cable (grey) and then the zsr mic cable.



i can't comment on the mic'd cables. but, the differences in the connectors/cables is, the angled "boot" on the ZST style are larger than the straight connectors. so, if you want to use one of the angled connectors on a pair that came with straight connectors, you'll have to trim the "lip" off the connector (the extended plastic that "hides" the pins) any of the straight cables should work (without modification) with any of the KZs with these connectors.


----------



## nkramer

connector A-B comparison... this has probably been done before (with better images)
you can see the housing of the angled connector is clearly longer & slightly wider than the straight connector.
(connectors: angled: un-mic'd std. zst , straight: upgrade smoke/grey)


----------



## oyobass (Jan 11, 2018)

nkramer said:


> connector A-B comparison... this has probably been done before (with better images)
> you can see the housing of the angled connector is clearly longer & slightly wider than the straight connector.
> (connectors: angled: un-mic'd std. zst , straight: upgrade smoke/grey)


Nice illustration/explanation.

I usually order the straight (ZS5/6) connector-style upgrade cables, since I find them more comfortable on all of my KZ earphones.

the one exception is the $1.99 w/ coupon code bluetooth module. I will attempt to modify it with my Dremel to be universal fit, without removing the polarity guide entirely. I'll just try to slim and shorten it a bit once it arrives...


----------



## zhuoyang

I am looking to buy a KZ IEM, which model should I buy now? 
something that is reliable (no batch issue, durability issue) would be nice


----------



## oyobass

zhuoyang said:


> I am looking to buy a KZ IEM, which model should I buy now?
> something that is reliable (no batch issue, durability issue) would be nice


I would recommend the ZS6, if you can deal with treble that is a bit hotter than a lot of earphones. It can be tamed with memory foam eartips (Comply brand or generic equivalent) or any number of mods described in this thread.


----------



## jkaudio

Pruikki said:


> Perhaps KZ ZS6?  if ES3 was good for you, it is supposed to be slighty better.
> thats all i can think of as of now.



Thank you for response. But I am looking for *Over-Ear* (updated) headphones, with sound signature like KZ ES3.


----------



## zhuoyang

oyobass said:


> I would recommend the ZS6, if you can deal with treble that is a bit hotter than a lot of earphones. It can be tamed with memory foam eartips (Comply brand or generic equivalent) or any number of mods described in this thread.


What's the difference between ZS5 and ZS6 ?
Is it worth the 10 USD difference (gearbest)


----------



## CoiL (Jan 11, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> This one is working for me, so far.
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html





hakuzen said:


> i got one cable at least of every kind of replaceable ones for KZs.
> My fav one (best conductivity, light and comfortable) is:
> 
> 
> ...





hakuzen said:


> DC resistance of KZ cables (read by DMMs), in ohms (left, right, and ground):
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6) plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings)   0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40  <- this is number one (above post)
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6+trim) plated+metal plug+6cords   0.42/43/45/52/42/43 0.43/43/45/44/43/44 0.44/43/45/42/44/43  <- this is number two
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6) plated (4cords,white,gearbest)       0.63/76   0.60/62   0.61/83
> ...



I got my silver plated, white rings jack, angled 2-pins, 0,78 from HCK and it is actually worse than stock no-mic ZS5 cable!
I measured it and it was out of balance - L=0.6, R= 0.9 Ohm, G (on both sides)=0.5 Ohm ( I already extracted multimeter leads resistance of 0,3 Ohm from those measurements).
It feels very nice and looks great but one of the worst quality IEM cable I have unfortunately when it comes to conductivity/resistance.



hakuzen said:


> fr and impedance:
> zs5v1 vs zs6 fr: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1526#post-13766133
> zs5 v1 vs zst: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1540#post-13771730
> zs5 v1 vs zs6 impedance: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060
> ...


Great post!



xxxreyxxx said:


> I think this one not compatible with ZS5 cause of the different connector


It is meant for ZST but fits for ZS5. Idk but my ZS5 unit didn`t become loose at pins. And anyway, You can just bend one or both pins slightly so it creates more "locked" fit inside pins  You can do this easily to any 2-pin cable and socket holes wont damage imo.

@hakuzen , where did You bought Your black rings 2-pin angled from?


> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6) plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings) 0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40 <- this is number one (above post)




And.... I got to have those green ZSR shells! -.- BUT not with original price! I got late and KZZSR code doesn`t work anymore! ;(


----------



## Willber

jkaudio said:


> Thank you for response. But I am looking for *Over-Ear* (updated) headphones, with sound signature like KZ ES3.


Most sites describe those Sony headphones you linked to as "on-ear" rather than "over-ear".


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 6, 2018)

CoiL said:


> @hakuzen , where did You bought Your black rings 2-pin angled from?


got all them from here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ord-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ/32788061546.html
received last order today. seller sent me the zs3 (not angled) cable with white rings, but he has shipped the right ones immediately after i noticed him about the issue.
don't know if these cables were from an old kz batch, so i use to order one unit after receiving the prior. last successful order was on Dec 14th. hope actual stock is the same cable type.

btw, thanks to George, and Audrey (from Gearbest Customer Service), my lost expensive package issue has been solved completely. so ordered ZSR and some other items..


----------



## jkaudio

Willber said:


> Most sites describe those Sony headphones you linked to as "on-ear" rather than "over-ear".



If on-ear or over-ear, it does not matter. Just not earbud headphones. Sony was just example.


----------



## Niqeres

jkaudio said:


> Thank you for response. But I am looking for *Over-Ear* (updated) headphones, with sound signature like KZ ES3.


Aside from the LP series headphones which not many own, KZ mainly only deals in iem's.
For chi-fi headphones, check out this thread.


----------



## bsoplinger

JayceOoi said:


> Yeah... Just tested. KZ ZSR @ $16.99 with code - KZZSR is working. Thanks.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1512920.html


Offer expired already


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Jan 11, 2018)

jkaudio said:


> Thank you for response. But I am looking for *Over-Ear* (updated) headphones, with sound signature like KZ ES3.


what price range are you looking for? Does it matter if it is closed back or open/semi open?


----------



## oyobass

zhuoyang said:


> What's the difference between ZS5 and ZS6 ?
> Is it worth the 10 USD difference (gearbest)


I have the ZS5 v1, so can't make any comments on the current v2 vs. ZS6. My impression from reading is that the ZS5 v2 has weaker mids, although the ZS6 mids are still considered "recessed".

The appearance and build quality are worth the extra money you pay for the ZS6, sound differences aside, in my opinion.

I may have to buy a v2 just to compare, but I have to tread lightly with Gearbest purchases for a while... I just spent a good chunk of change (for me, anyway) buying a ZTE Axon 7 Mini cell phone to use as an audio source, since it was relatively low priced ($126 with coupon) and has a dedicated DAC and amp- the AKM AK4962.

I really should have bought car parts with that money, lol.


----------



## aclup3

Hello, has anyone tested the kz zsr? Are they better than the zs6? They cost 2euros less than the zs6 but if they have tamed those crazy highs, that's a better purchase


----------



## themindfreak

aclup3 said:


> Hello, has anyone tested the kz zsr? Are they better than the zs6? They cost 2euros less than the zs6 but if they have tamed those crazy highs, that's a better purchase


I'm pretty sure no one here has the ZSR yet. I just read from twitter online source (some random japanese people), that it had a "boring" sound. I don't think they were really impressed with its sound since they weren't hyping it up at all. They just said it sounded "good"


----------



## TLDRonin

themindfreak said:


> I'm pretty sure no one here has the ZSR yet. I just read from twitter online source (some random japanese people), that it had a "boring" sound. I don't think they were really impressed with its sound since they weren't hyping it up at all. They just said it sounded "good"


can you link it? I can fully translate it


----------



## hydroid (Jan 12, 2018)

aclup3 said:


> Hello, has anyone tested the kz zsr? Are they better than the zs6? They cost 2euros less than the zs6 but if they have tamed those crazy highs, that's a better purchase



I've read several comments from youtube that it's closer to es3 and zst with more bass on it. Another one said it's not fatiguing/harsh even if the 2BA's are close to the nozzle. That's a positive thing for me if that's the case.


----------



## govie (Jan 12, 2018)

I found 2 bluetooth cables for my kz zs6:

Original kz zs6 bt cable 
Pizen BT66 CSR8645

I see differences like resistance, btversion and apt-x yes/no, but I am having trouble seeing which one is the best bt-cable-proposition (I find batterylife important).


----------



## HraD2 (Jan 12, 2018)

govie said:


> I found 2 bluetooth cables for my kz zs6:
> 
> Original kz zs6 bt cable
> Pizen BT66 CSR8645
> ...


Original BT cable (v2) has no APT-X and has this audioprofile:
"Audio SBC (44100 48000 | Stereo JointStereo | block: 12 16 | subbands: 8 | allocation: Loudness | bitpool: 2..52)"
and phone choses configuration
"Audio SBC (44100 | JointStereo | block: 16 | subbands: 8 | allocation: Loudness | bitpool: 19..52)"

BTW, BT cable reports about 2 possible configurations (audio profiles), but they are the same, may be there is an error in firmware and second one should be APT-X.

Pizen cable arrives soon (Started customs clearance process)


----------



## Makahl (Feb 6, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> can you link it? I can fully translate it



Well, searching for "KZ ZSR" on TweetDeck I found those tweets:

https://twitter.com/HachiTwitt/status/951588993384071168
https://twitter.com/HachiTwitt/status/951404811576000514
https://twitter.com/ta_na_ka_ni_shi/status/951487094194454528
https://twitter.com/gerugeru8921/status/951406424923430912


----------



## govie

HraD2 said:


> Original BT cable (v2) has no APT-X and has this audioprofile:
> "Audio SBC (44100 48000 | Stereo JointStereo | block: 12 16 | subbands: 8 | allocation: Loudness | bitpool: 2..52)"
> and phone choses configuration
> "Audio SBC (44100 | JointStereo | block: 16 | subbands: 8 | allocation: Loudness | bitpool: 19..52)"
> ...



Apparantly ATP-x sounds better then other alternatives according to articles on the internet, so I assume that bt-cable with atp-x is the most interesting proposition. Thanks!


----------



## HraD2

govie said:


> Thanks!


I'll check apt-x support for Pizen cable when it arrives.


----------



## handwander

Even cheaper ZSRs coming - 

https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-kz-earphones-special-1556.html


----------



## jkaudio

Niqeres said:


> Aside from the LP series headphones which not many own, KZ mainly only deals in iem's.
> For chi-fi headphones, check out this thread.





Cruelhand Luke said:


> what price range are you looking for? Does it matter if it is closed back or open/semi open?



I like mine old Philips SBC HP800, but they are worse than KZ ZST, KZ ES3.

Any tips for about $20, $20-40 range, $40-$60 range?

In $60 I am interesting in Philips-SHP9500S, but never heard them and do not know if the are close to ES3...


----------



## paulindss (Jan 12, 2018)

Makahl said:


> Well, searching for "KZ ZSR" on TweetDeck I found those tweets:
> 
> https://twitter.com/HachiTwitt/status/951588993384071168
> https://twitter.com/HachiTwitt/status/951404811576000514
> ...



These impressions makes me way less concerned. I was worried of them being treble cannons. "Boring", "monitor sound", and mentions to zs6 in airyness seems ok to me.


----------



## paulindss (Jan 12, 2018)

http://sor4t0ru.hatenablog.com/entry/2018/01/12/010050

Guys, look at this Review of ZSR in a japanese blog. Just use Google Translator to read the page.


----------



## Willber

paulindss said:


> These impressions make way less concerned. I was worried of them being treble cannons. "Boring", "monitor sound", and mentions to zs6 in airyness seems ok to me.


Me too.


----------



## Pruikki (Jan 12, 2018)

Aww, now i feel like i wasted 15€

Oh well, Will try to sell it off. (if i dont like it,If)
Lets hope its even a little better than ES3


----------



## Saoshyant

Not sure when my ZSR will arrive, but was ordered a couple weeks back so it should be one of the first US arrivals.  Shame to see all these discounts already.


----------



## oyobass

Saoshyant said:


> Not sure when my ZSR will arrive, but was ordered a couple weeks back so it should be one of the first US arrivals.  Shame to see all these discounts already.


I know what you mean. I paid a lot more for my ZS5 than what it goes for now. The price of being an early adopter, I guess.


----------



## vladstef

Can someone confirm this, I've been messing with some KZ cables and lost track of +/- somewhere along the way.

The exact polarity when you have IEM in your ears is this and obviously R-L branding is not facing your head?
Left side positive towards front, negative back
Right side negative towards front, positive back


----------



## TheVortex

vladstef said:


> Can someone confirm this, I've been messing with some KZ cables and lost track of +/- somewhere along the way.
> 
> The exact polarity when you have IEM in your ears is this and obviously R-L branding is not facing your head?
> Left side positive towards front, negative back
> Right side negative towards front, positive back



Look where the 2 pins are and there should be a half circle and that marries up with the same on the IEM.


----------



## bsoplinger

Saoshyant said:


> Not sure when my ZSR will arrive, but was ordered a couple weeks back so it should be one of the first US arrivals.  Shame to see all these discounts already.





oyobass said:


> I know what you mean. I paid a lot more for my ZS5 than what it goes for now. The price of being an early adopter, I guess.



I'm not surprised by the pricing. It really has pretty much followed what happened with the release of the ZS6. High, exclusive price initially followed by a bit of a discount followed rather quickly by bigger discounts. I know that by the time I received the first ZS6 I purchased (shipped using their America Line SF) the reduced price deals had just started to appear. That's why I waited to order this new product.


----------



## hydroid

paulindss said:


> http://sor4t0ru.hatenablog.com/entry/2018/01/12/010050
> 
> Guys, look at this Review of ZSR in a japanese blog. Just use Google Translator to read the page.



By how the Emerald green looks in this blog, I think I made the right choice.,can't wait to get my hands on this ZSR


----------



## modjo

TLDRonin said:


> The ZSR sure does have a moniter like sound~. Its not like a don-shyari kind of sound. Its more of a warm, mid to high range. The high-peak is annoying/disturbing, but "edging" it makes it bearable. [I don't know what he means by "edging". EQing? Burn in?] The airy feeling [not sure if he means soundstage] is expressed well, and the parts where the zs6 did too much of are held back, and the good parts were brought out. These iems get the job done! [This last sentence is probably wordplay/a joke; "採用 is used when employing someone for a job, so taking this sentence literally doesn't make too much sense]



"The ZSR does have a monitor like sound. It's not like an ultra v-shaped kind of sound. It's more mid to high with a sense of a warmth. The high-peak is there, but somehow can be tamed with burn-in.
The airy feeling is good, and it managed to put my overworked ZS6 into the drawer. These IEM's did very well and now became my daily drivers."

Hope this helps


----------



## modjo

paulindss said:


> http://sor4t0ru.hatenablog.com/entry/2018/01/12/010050
> 
> Guys, look at this Review of ZSR in a japanese blog. Just use Google Translator to read the page.



It stated that the lows on ZSR are (slightly) thicker and extend better compared to ES3.


----------



## TLDRonin (Jan 13, 2018)

modjo said:


> "The ZSR does have a monitor like sound. It's not like an ultra v-shaped kind of sound. It's more mid to high with a sense of a warmth. The high-peak is there, but somehow can be tamed with burn-in.
> The airy feeling is good, and it managed to put my overworked ZS6 into the drawer. These IEM's did very well and now became my daily drivers."
> 
> Hope this helps






Its 引き出した not 引き出し so he isn't talking about putting it away in a drawer 


Interesting that don-shyari means v shaped though


----------



## Daniel Gur

Hey Guys. I am thinking on which earphone should I buy. I have recently bought the kz zs6, the sound was awesome but the highs were too high. anyways, I managed to lose the pair 
I have some more KZ earphones such as the ED9 ATR ZST ZSE & tested the ZS3 (my friend has those). From all of these I mostly prefer my ZST's, I think I didnt like them at first but after long burn-in they sound pretty nice now.

My problem is, I accidentally broke 1 of the ZST's earphones (a cable inside disconnected from where it should be) but I can try and fix it (dont know if it will).

To give you a better look at my preference these are the order of my earphones:
1st place I would give to the ZST, 2nd- my galaxy s8 stock earphones, 3rd- ZS3, 4th- ZSE, 5th- ATR, 6th- ED9. I think all are good except the ED9, I really didnt like their sound.

After what I wrote, My question is- which earphones should I buy?, I am a KZ fan, but not KZ will be okay too. Thanks! (should I re-purchase the zs6?)


----------



## chinmie

Daniel Gur said:


> Hey Guys. I am thinking on which earphone should I buy. I have recently bought the kz zs6, the sound was awesome but the highs were too high. anyways, I managed to lose the pair
> I have some more KZ earphones such as the ED9 ATR ZST ZSE & tested the ZS3 (my friend has those). From all of these I mostly prefer my ZST's, I think I didnt like them at first but after long burn-in they sound pretty nice now.
> 
> My problem is, I accidentally broke 1 of the ZST's earphones (a cable inside disconnected from where it should be) but I can try and fix it (dont know if it will).
> ...



try the KZ5. i've tried the version 1, i quite like it. to my ears the highs are a little abundant in amount, but not sibilant or piercing


----------



## hakuzen

vladstef said:


> Can someone confirm this, I've been messing with some KZ cables and lost track of +/- somewhere along the way.
> 
> The exact polarity when you have IEM in your ears is this and obviously R-L branding is not facing your head?
> Left side positive towards front, negative back
> Right side negative towards front, positive back


yes, R-L letters outside (except with the colored -gold, orange, grey- cables), left & right back (rounded connection), ground front (flat connection).



Daniel Gur said:


> Hey Guys. I am thinking on which earphone should I buy. I have recently bought the kz zs6, the sound was awesome but the highs were too high. anyways, I managed to lose the pair
> I have some more KZ earphones such as the ED9 ATR ZST ZSE & tested the ZS3 (my friend has those). From all of these I mostly prefer my ZST's, I think I didnt like them at first but after long burn-in they sound pretty nice now.
> 
> My problem is, I accidentally broke 1 of the ZST's earphones (a cable inside disconnected from where it should be) but I can try and fix it (dont know if it will).
> ...


KZ ES3 could fit your preferences, and they are cheap (wait for a discount, check gearbest discounts threads).


----------



## wastan

Daniel Gur said:


> Hey Guys. I am thinking on which earphone should I buy. I have recently bought the kz zs6, the sound was awesome but the highs were too high. anyways, I managed to lose the pair
> I have some more KZ earphones such as the ED9 ATR ZST ZSE & tested the ZS3 (my friend has those). From all of these I mostly prefer my ZST's, I think I didnt like them at first but after long burn-in they sound pretty nice now.
> 
> My problem is, I accidentally broke 1 of the ZST's earphones (a cable inside disconnected from where it should be) but I can try and fix it (dont know if it will).
> ...



You've had a lot of KZ so I'd suggest you try the EMI C1880 or the Urbanfun hybrid


----------



## stryed

wastan said:


> You've had a lot of KZ so I'd suggest you try the EMI C1880 or the Urbanfun hybrid



And Swing IE800. Good all arounder


----------



## govie

On the last pages in the $100,-- budget IEM thread, people are talking alot about the Z5000 (driver inspired by beyerdynamic). Could be a nice IEM.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-392#post-13965438 (from this post and onwards)


----------



## govie (Jan 14, 2018)

HraD2 said:


> Original BT cable (v2) has no APT-X and has this audioprofile:
> "Audio SBC (44100 48000 | Stereo JointStereo | block: 12 16 | subbands: 8 | allocation: Loudness | bitpool: 2..52)"
> and phone choses configuration
> "Audio SBC (44100 | JointStereo | block: 16 | subbands: 8 | allocation: Loudness | bitpool: 19..52)"
> ...



FYI: I found a nice explanation about apt-x that could explain the slightly theoretical longer batterylife of the pizen BT-cable, but also higher quality sound. The problem APT-x has on the pizen cable, is that you do not know when APT-x is active, not even when both devices are APT-x enabled.

https://www.cnet.com/news/can-aptx-give-you-better-sound-over-bluetooth/

I am still interested in your first impressions ofcourse, just thought I'd share the info in the link.


----------



## hydroid (Jan 14, 2018)

Grabbed a photo from twitter and taobao website, the emerald green really looks nice. No technical impressions provided though..


----------



## durwood (Jan 14, 2018)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Someone should warn you before you get into KZs that you are going to have to STORE these things or they will become a tangly desktop nightmare...and cases are fine and all for travel, but you can't SEE the IEMs....
> so I got these at the dollar store....
> 
> and then did this:



Thanks, I bought a pack to try out. The case is relatively slim and flimsy but they fit. I also found another option, a little bulkier at almost twice the height (1.78"), but the price was right. $0.49 if you have a Menards hardware store near you. They are on clearance. They are quick an easy to open and close, and stack together.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools-...-c-9189.htm?tid=-2535865861111253033&ipos=158

Or containerstore also has some called lock-ups, which appear to be the same thing.
https://www.containerstore.com/s/gift-packaging/containers/lock-ups/12d?productId=10028612





There was also a mention of tins, those might be nice as well. I found some here, but have not bought any.

https://www.containerstore.com/s/gi.../shallow-seamless-tins/12d?productId=10030953


----------



## snip3r77

hydroid said:


> Grabbed a photo from twitter and taobao website, the emerald green really looks nice. No technical impressions provided though..



Need review then proceed for special price


----------



## CoiL

hydroid said:


> Grabbed a photo from twitter and taobao website, the emerald green really looks nice. No technical impressions provided though..


Hmmm.... @ 1st pic it looks nice but 2nd pic shows them too "light" coloured ;S


----------



## hydroid

CoiL said:


> Hmmm.... @ 1st pic it looks nice but 2nd pic shows them too "light" coloured ;S



Yeah the 1st pic looks good.,here's 2 more actual photos from taobao..and the 3rd one(next to ES3) from twitter.,


----------



## Saoshyant

I think my ZSR has left HK for the US, although America SF shipping is usually not the most up to date, or clear on the whole process.


----------



## Viber

I should get the ZSR this week. I'll try to post early impressions before the actual review.


----------



## MyPants

Hey y'all, long time lurker here. I'll get into a proper intro later but I'm finally breaking silence to ask a modding question.

I know the ZS3 uses a 6mm driver, and thus can accept other 6mm dynamics as drop-in replacements. Is there any reason they wouldn't fit the Knowles SR-32453-000? It appears to be a full-range entry-level balanced armature in a 6.4mm round package with a perfect front cover for accommodating the sound tube.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/knowles/SR-32453-000/423-1406-ND/5414411

In theory it could be a very cheap, easy, and interesting way to get started modding.


----------



## Wiljen

My ZSR is due to arrive tomorrow -  Got the DHL text today  Woohoo!!!   Looking forward to this and a couple others I need to review.  Meanwhile I still haven't written up the Bingle FB60 which deserves way more attention than it is getting.  Yes ,it is a V shaped commercial tuning but a $15 bluetooth headset that has not dropped one time in a month of use is quite a rare bird.   They certainly got BT implementation right and the cable alone is worth the $15 if looking for a cheap BT earbud to make a mmcx cable out of.


----------



## AKMW44

Hi nines developed loosed audio cable connection, hopefully a bit of glue might sort it, has anyone else done this??? or has anyone got a green pair for sale.


----------



## CoiL

MyPants said:


> I know the ZS3 uses a 6mm driver, and thus can accept other 6mm dynamics as drop-in replacements. Is there any reason they wouldn't fit the Knowles SR-32453-000? It appears to be a full-range entry-level balanced armature in a 6.4mm round package with a perfect front cover for accommodating the sound tube.
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/knowles/SR-32453-000/423-1406-ND/5414411


1. That BA driver FR ends @ 8.8kHz, which is "bad" and needs another hi-freq BA upwards from 8.8kHz, thus, making implementation harder. Also crossover might be needed.
2. ZS3 shells take very well even 8mm drivers but thing is - just dropping in another driver doesn`t "make" anything, You need knowledge about nozzle/shells implementation and how to "tune" it all.

For starters, I recommend to start with single DD and maybe then add BA into mix.


----------



## Willber (Jan 14, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Meanwhile I still haven't written up the Bingle FB60 which deserves way more attention than it is getting.  Yes ,it is a V shaped commercial tuning but a $15 bluetooth headset that has not dropped one time in a month of use is quite a rare bird.   They certainly got BT implementation right and the cable alone is worth the $15 if looking for a cheap BT earbud to make a mmcx cable out of.


They look interesting, so I've just ordered some. Thanks for the heads up.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bin...tproof-Headphone-Bass-Earbud/32828943531.html


----------



## NeonHD

hoerlurar said:


> looks like fonge t01 as well: http://www.aproear.co.uk/fonge-t01-sport-earphone/
> I bought one as a christmas gift, and it sounded ok from the quick listening i did before gifting them.



Ohh guess I was wrong, these are definitely the fonge T01 then, not the ES3. Still I can't wait to see how this $3 IEM will sound.


----------



## gwompki

KZ ZSR flash sale happening now at GB.  $16.99USD. Snagged a pair for myself.


----------



## Willber (Jan 14, 2018)

Willber said:


> They look interesting, so I've just ordered some. Thanks for the heads up.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bin...tproof-Headphone-Bass-Earbud/32828943531.html


Crikey, just got an email saying these have been shipped, six hours after I placed the order. Good work, Aliexpress!


----------



## hydroid (Jan 15, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> My ZSR is due to arrive tomorrow -  Got the DHL text today  Woohoo!!!   Looking forward to this and a couple others I need to review.  Meanwhile I still haven't written up the Bingle FB60 which deserves way more attention than it is getting.  Yes ,it is a V shaped commercial tuning but a $15 bluetooth headset that has not dropped one time in a month of use is quite a rare bird.   They certainly got BT implementation right and the cable alone is worth the $15 if looking for a cheap BT earbud to make a mmcx cable out of.



Looking forward to your ZSR's initial impressions and final review in the future..  Sorry guys though, I can't control myself to post some actual photos I've seen somewhere., the shell is a thing of beauty indeed..lol.. pair it with a decent 2-pin cable will make it look more even better..


----------



## hydroid (Jan 15, 2018)

Hey guys check this out, 1st ZSR review has just been posted.,. http://www.awaqa.com/kz-zsr-review-hybrid-hi-fi-earphones-low-price-buy-2018/


----------



## handwander

The "first 20 units for 9.99" sale is active but the price increases back to normal when I add the ZSR's to my cart. Not sure if I was too slow but the price on the main page is still the promo price.


----------



## HUGO SILVA

handwander said:


> The "first 20 units for 9.99" sale is active but the price increases back to normal when I add the ZSR's to my cart. Not sure if I was too slow but the price on the main page is still the promo price.


I also could not, the price changed when I went to the cart. = /


----------



## handwander

HUGO SILVA said:


> I also could not, the price changed when I went to the cart. = /



Ah well, we have more than one day to try again at least!


----------



## AKMW44

Hi, when trying to get the deal on gearbest do we just put in cart and see or is there a code.??


----------



## AKMW44

Willber said:


> Crikey, just got an email saying these have been shipped, six hours after I placed the order. Good work, Aliexpress!


Hi, are these any good and is the Bluetooth cable ok for. Kzzs6. Thanks


----------



## Willber

AKMW44 said:


> Hi, are these any good and is the Bluetooth cable ok for. Kzzs6. Thanks


I don't know, they have only just been shipped, I should get them in a couple of weeks.
The cable doesn't look to be removable.


----------



## AKMW44

Willber said:


> I don't know, they have only just been shipped, I should get them in a couple of weeks.
> The cable doesn't look to be removable.


Oh, didn't see that. I'm on my mobile and browsing is difficult, I'll wait till later. Thanks for replying


----------



## Willber

AKMW44 said:


> Oh, didn't see that. I'm on my mobile and browsing is difficult, I'll wait till later. Thanks for replying


No problem.


----------



## themindfreak

handwander said:


> The "first 20 units for 9.99" sale is active but the price increases back to normal when I add the ZSR's to my cart. Not sure if I was too slow but the price on the main page is still the promo price.





HUGO SILVA said:


> I also could not, the price changed when I went to the cart. = /


I literally camped 5 mins before the sale when it was counting down every second and I could not buy it as well. Those 20 units sold out so fast...


----------



## AKMW44

Hi all are kz releasing a 5 a side or K10 iem.


----------



## Wiljen

Rumors of a ZSR Pro that is a 5 Driver per side have been floated for almost a year now.  If they ever hit the market remains to be seen.


----------



## WalterTorino

AKMW44 said:


> Hi all are kz releasing a 5 a side or K10 iem.


There was kinda news about 10-driver model in progress, its gonna be ZSR PRO. But its hard to say when it will be ready.


----------



## AKMW44

Ok, good to know. Can you recommend a decent Bluetooth cable for kzzs6 pls


----------



## Wiljen

Fiio BTR1 is a good little BT device or the Kz BT cable designed for the Zs series is usable.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 15, 2018)

AKMW44 said:


> Ok, good to know. Can you recommend a decent Bluetooth cable for kzzs6 pls


Yeah, as Wiljen said before BTR1 is good device. You have to know that KZ's bt cable is good for sure, sound quality almost stay the same as if you use wire, but as for me, 3-4 hours of working isnt good enough. So with BTR1 you have twice longer lifetime from one charge, better sound quality and some more features. With KZ's device you have a simpliest bt device. Thats all. But Fiio is way more expensive... You to decide 
But I agree with Wiljen - there are two mostly optimal devices. Good luck with choise 

Upd: as my friend says KZ's bt cable sometimes looses his phone. And you have to pair them again. Aaand there are some strange noise in ears sometimes like a very short white noise. I havent met such problems with the KZ's cable, but...


----------



## CoiL (Jan 15, 2018)

hydroid said:


> Hey guys check this out, 1st ZSR review has just been posted.,. http://www.awaqa.com/kz-zsr-review-hybrid-hi-fi-earphones-low-price-buy-2018/


So... another V-shaped, mids-light (maybe neutral) & brightish IEM from KZ?
It seems KZ has "hit a wall" again and doesn`t seem to have interest of "jumping over the wall" to next SQ level for longer time by now.
ZS5 & ZS6 will be KZ`s "highlight" for longer time?

Unless ZSR price will come down to ZS3 regular price, I won`t buy them just for shells. 
But I doubt it will because ZS3 is 1 DD vs. ZSR 2BA+DD.


----------



## Wiljen

that seems like a very limited usage window between charges if that 120 mAh rating is correct.


----------



## HraD2

CSR8645 should supports apt-x...
btw, Pizen BT cable is at post office, i 'll get it tomorrow.


----------



## anindyameister

Battery life and charging time seems similar to Meizu EP 52.

https://www.meizu.com/en/accessory/ep52.html


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Jan 15, 2018)

I've just received spinfit CP100 which I had high hopes for. Nope. It did not improve the sound in ZS 5 and 6. What a pity.
BTW, I've removed the foam from ZS3 and put it to ZS5. It did not improve the sound. Shall I use tea-bags instead as was recommended at Russian websites?


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 15, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> I've just received spinfit CP100 which I had high hopes for. Nope. It did not improve the sound in ZS 5 and 6. What a pity.


Thank you! Ive just thought about this spinfits. Seems like better to forget about it  Actually, i like my QKZ's foam ear cups - 5 pairs for only few dollars. Nothing unbelieveble but i like how they fit in my ears, make HF a little bit smoother and give some more volume to a bass. KZ ZS6.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 15, 2018)

*nadezhda 6004,*
tea-bags is not a solvation to the problem, but you can try it. Some people say that it realy help. For me it worthless.
But I am one of the guys from Russian websites, so lets see what others will say about it


----------



## Makahl

WalterTorino said:


> *nadezhda 6004,*
> tea-bags is not a solvation to the problem, but you can try it. Some people say that it realy help. *For me it worthless.*
> But I am one of the guys from Russian websites, so lets see what others will say about it



In my experience, each tea brand has your own material. Usually, on the cheap ones it's all about paper-ish like this one over this. So each one will act differently with the acoustic impedance and how the peaks are going to be controlled. Also, you always can add layers to get higher acoustic impedance. 

So, IMO the material's quality is the most important part for taming the peaks and get a good result. I've been using silica gel bags like this to tame the ZST's peak at the treble and it works better than the tea-bag which I got here.


----------



## WalterTorino

Makahl said:


> In my experience, each tea brand has your own material. Usually, on the cheap ones it's all about paper-ish like this one over this. So each one will act differently with the acoustic impedance and how the peaks are going to be controlled. Also, you always can add layers to get higher acoustic impedance.
> 
> So, IMO the material's quality is the most important part for taming the peaks and get a good result. I've been using silica gel bags like this to tame the ZST's peak at the treble and it works better than the tea-bag which I got here.


I agree with you. I didn't think about material quality of tea-bags. For sure there is huge difference btwn them.
Thank you for your advice, i'll try it


----------



## Slater (Jan 15, 2018)

paulindss said:


> One doubt. I had buyed a Xioami piston colorful edition on gearbest more than a year Ago. At the time i only had KZ ate. The pistons 3 Where praised so well that i expected them to be on par or best than my KZ. I did some research and the pistons colorful edition should sound the same or close to original pistons 3. Well, i was Very dissapointed when they arrived. They Just sounded bad, with a Very low volume and with no punch. Anyone listened to these colorful Edition ? I heard someone talk well about pistons fresh Edition and It made me remind this. Maybe i got s falsefied piston ? They sounded so cheap by the time that i have never touched them again, and i think i lost them. They were Very cheap $$, so i was'nt actually mad, bit they were supossed to sound Very good. And they sounded Just like a earbud that comes with a ordinary smartphone. Like the Samsungs That comes with Galaxy S3, s4 etc. This is How they Would sound ? Or maybe New pistons deserve a bet. They could make a good gift.



I don't know much about the regular Pistons (2 vs 3 and the like), but I have read more than 1 person saying that 1 of the 2 (ie either the Piston 2 or the Piston 3) is poor.

It could be possible that you have fake ones, even though you purchased from Gearbest. Piston is a commonly faked IEM. And Gearbest was selling fake Xiaomi Pro HD not too long ago (they did not know, and since corrected the issue). The point is that it can happen to anyone. I ended up with counterfeit Sennheiser Momentums last year.

As far as the Xiaomi Fresh Edition, I have a set from Gearbest and once you remove the foam plug in the nozzle, they sound pretty good. Well worth the $3.99 I paid for them, but they aren't going to blow you away or anything like that. There's much better IEMs available, but you'll pay more than $4.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Don't know how legit this is, but I just found this earphone on eBay called the QKZ CK5 and it looks EXACTLY like the KZ ES3 but rebranded as "QKZ".
> Do you know what's crazy though? Apparently they only cost $3! That's right, *three bucks*!!!
> 
> Regardless whether they're legit or not, I'm gonna pull the trigger and buy them just cause it's only $3. Once I get them, I will report back on here whether if it's fake or real. I'm really hoping on the latter as the original ES3 costs like 5x the price of that, so $3 would basically be considered free
> ...



I forget what those are, but they aren't ES3 rebrands. You can find them on Aliexpress. They are just single dynamic driver IEMs, and the cable isn't removable even though they look like removable KZ cables.


----------



## Slater (Jan 17, 2018)

MyPants said:


> Hey y'all, long time lurker here. I'll get into a proper intro later but I'm finally breaking silence to ask a modding question.
> 
> I know the ZS3 uses a 6mm driver, and thus can accept other 6mm dynamics as drop-in replacements. Is there any reason they wouldn't fit the Knowles SR-32453-000? It appears to be a full-range entry-level balanced armature in a 6.4mm round package with a perfect front cover for accommodating the sound tube.
> 
> ...



ZS3 uses 7mm driver, not 6mm.

And there is room to fit a 8mm driver without mods to the 'driver holder', and possibly room for a 9mm driver if you cut out the 'driver holder'.

You can also replace the stock heat shrink tubing 'sound tube' with a proper sound tube/nozzle, as @CoiL has done:


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> I forget what those are, but they aren't ES3 rebrands. You can find them on Aliexpress. They are just single dynamic driver IEMs, and the cable isn't removable even though they look like removable KZ cables.



Yeah they're actually called the fonge T01, I just thought they were the ES3 cause they're shaped really similarly.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Yeah they're actually called the fonge T01, I just thought they were the ES3 cause they're shaped really similarly.



Well, it's not a total loss. I have the Fonge T01, and it's not all that bad for a low-tier, single dynamic v-shaped IEM. Give them a try - perhaps you'll like them.

Although mine has a temperamental connection at the strain relief on 1 of the shells. It intermittently cuts out, but only when wiggled with some effort though. I rarely use them, but if they poop out I won't shed any tears as they were only a few dollars.


----------



## CoiL

I also have 2 pairs of Fonge T01... bought shells for modding (they fit ~10mm DD nicely and have even room for 2nd smaller DD), but unfortunately fit is not so good for me (I have small ears).
Soundwise they are L-shaped, muddy mids and soft highs, detail resolution is quite bad actually. Soundstage and imaging is mediocre.
But for 2$ - LOL, I`m amazed they work!

Sorry about OT.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Makahl said:


> So, IMO the material's quality is the most important part for taming the peaks and get a good result. I've been using silica gel bags like this to tame the ZST's peak at the treble and it works better than the tea-bag which I got here.


Do you mean you take the fabric from this silica gel bag? How many layers?


----------



## snip3r77

I hope that the ZXR will have a more balanced sound and better than the ZS5/6 without the sibilance.


----------



## Makahl

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Do you mean you take the fabric from this silica gel bag? How many layers?



yes! Only one layer at the nozzle. But, I think the one which I linked previously isn't exactly the same fabric as mine. The one which I'm using now has bigger pores: picture


----------



## Wiljen

No sign of DHL yet,  I am wondering if they took Martin Luther King Day Holiday.   The USPS did, but Fedex didn't so its a toss up.


----------



## allaces305

i've had the zs6 for about 100hrs of burn-in already and yes the highs are still a bit on the bright side but nothing unbearable...i also found something really similar to that tea bag fabric....i used the carry pouch from a pair of philips shp9500 and cut a small piece and then made two even smaller pieces and placed them over the nozzles over the filters....to my surprise this worked really nicely for me...the highs are tamed down just a bit and i can't really hear it affecting any other sound frequencies negatively...btw i'm using jvc spiral dots,an upgraded braided silver cable,and a fiio q1 with a otg cable on a motorola play 4g streaming spotify premium... the sound for cost ratio i think is simply AMAZING....i'm sold on these KZ ZS6 and the advancement of Chi-FI....ohhh i also have the KZ ZS5 v1 and yes the soundstage is a bit wider but i think the trade off of the better sub bass and more up front mids and crisp clear highs once tamed a bit is well worth the trade off....not to mention the cnc machined aluminum construction vs. plastic


----------



## hydroid

More in-depth review of the KZ ZSR, check this out.. http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-review/


----------



## CoiL (Jan 16, 2018)

Btw guys, ZS3 is 6.76$ @ Gearbest. I got another one for modding, couldn`t resist! Such comfy and nice design for 7$? No-brainer!



hydroid said:


> More in-depth review of the KZ ZSR, check this out.. http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-review/


Nice shells.... but that seems to be all about ZSR goodness to me.


----------



## ivo001 (Jan 16, 2018)

Wrong thread.


----------



## handwander

Hmm same error as yesterday for the ZSR Gearbest deal. Price goes back up once it's added to cart. I could just beaten by others but who knows.


----------



## hydroid

handwander said:


> Hmm same error as yesterday for the ZSR Gearbest deal. Price goes back up once it's added to cart. I could just beaten by others but who knows.



same here.,I keep monitoring and refreshing the gearbest ZSR page every minute.,when the $9.99 shows up I immediately added to cart. Once viewing the cart it shows $23.23 price.


----------



## NeonHD

Ladies and gentlemen may I have your attention please.....















TA-DA! My ZS6 just arrived in my mail today and I have never been so excited for a package ever before!!! 

Soundwise they are a HUGE step up from every other KZ model I've tried, especially regarding clarity, detail, and imaging.

First of all let's get rid of the elephant in the room and talk about that overdone treble. There's no denying that the treble is kind of overkill, but I did what everyone would do and changed the stock starline tips to a different set of tips which drastically reduced the piercing treble. Seriously, it was literally like from sitting on a bunch of spikes to sitting on a nice comfy pillow. The starline tips seem to really emphasize the upper highs, which is actually a con in this case. I actually find that quite ironic because the starline tips works wonders on every other KZ IEM except for the ZSE and the ZS5/ZS6, which are the only KZ IEMs that include them. Later on I'll probably do a foam mod by inserting foam into the BA nozzles to tame the highs even more.

Okay with that out of the way, I cannot believe how detailed they sound. They definitely brought out many details that were usually unnoticed with all my other IEMs. I used to think that my ED9 and ATE-S were quite revealing (in the highs and in the mids respectively), but the ZS6 was basically like "no, I'll give you EVEN MORE details!!!!"

And I don't know how to explain it, but music overall just felt more "alive" and "realistic" with the ZS6. It felt like I was completely immersed into the music. Definitely a good thing whenever you want the music to control you; it literally begs you for your attention, so be careful with multi-tasking or else you'll be more focused on the music than the thing you're trying to do (e.g. homework).

Sound *signature *wise—well I honestly never paid much attention—but I could tell and already knew that they have a large emphasis on mids/high-mids, which made stuff sound more realistic and "concrete". I honestly didn't pay much attention to the bass either, probably because it was so well-meshed into the music, but I can say that it is neither bass-light or bass-heavy; it has the perfect amount of bass that you could wish for, and its sub-bass to mid-bass ratio pretty balanced.

So having said all that, the only thing I really wished was for the treble to be less piercing and to be a bit more relaxed yet detailed, kind of like the treble on the ED9. Too bad I missed out on the ZS5v1, the treble on there from what I heard seems to be much more "relaxed" but detailed sounding.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 16, 2018)

hydroid said:


> same here.,I keep monitoring and refreshing the gearbest ZSR page every minute.,when the $9.99 shows up I immediately added to cart. Once viewing the cart it shows $23.23 price.


Sadly, exactly the same...


----------



## WalterTorino

NeonHD said:


> Ladies and gentlemen may I have your attention please.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats, great buy! I like my zs6 too


----------



## Saoshyant

It's no error.  When you have what is most likely thousands trying for 20 discounts, there is no guarantee.


----------



## Slater

handwander said:


> Hmm same error as yesterday for the ZSR Gearbest deal. Price goes back up once it's added to cart. I could just beaten by others but who knows.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...cy-q29-pro-26-99.832367/page-81#post-13978246


----------



## HraD2

Hi all. Got Pizen BT cable today. It do supports APT-X. 


Spoiler: Some pics


----------



## bsoplinger

I just received a notice from PayPal that my Gearbest purchase for the ZSR was refunded. When I logged in to check on what happened I saw I'd gotten a message from them asking me to confirm my address. I've made over 2 dozen purchases from them always using PayPal although more have been for non audio products. Has anyone else had this happen to them? 

Luckily it was just for the $16.99 sale price so I could just order again so all that's lost is 3 days processing time.


----------



## bsoplinger

HraD2 said:


> Hi all. Got Pizen BT cable today. It do supports APT-X


The case is a nice extra. Looks to be a sufficient size to hold the headset once you've attached the earphones.


----------



## snip3r77

hydroid said:


> More in-depth review of the KZ ZSR, check this out.. http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-review/


Imho no tamed highs are an absolute plus point. Now let's get gear best to go down in price


----------



## Otto Motor

Saoshyant said:


> It's no error.  When you have what is most likely thousands trying for 20 discounts, there is no guarantee.


Exactly! That's why I used the KZZSR coupon code and paid $16.99. Still an excellent deal.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

snip3r77 said:


> Imho no tamed highs are an absolute plus point. Now let's get gear best to go down in price


man, they JUST came out and already y'all are, "give us a discount!!" lol.


----------



## Superluc

There are too much cons on thephonograph's review for make them interesting. 

I was thinking to buy a pair of ZSR if the isolation was in league with the ZS3, and so better than the ZS6 on that, but don't seem so at all. Better wait for the ZS3 hybrid.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 16, 2018)

...or get ZS3 for *6.76$* and mod it with whatever You want (ZS3 is just so freakin comfy!) 
Btw, I have made some progress with ZS3 modding and tuning. Still lot to do but I think it will be "killer" considered components total price, comfort and looks.


----------



## stryed (Jan 16, 2018)

Just received a few spinfits. Smaller bores than the KZ ZS5 stock ones. The CP220 M2 does well with these, both comfort & sound wise. I think they remove quite a bit of harshness (no mod required). I wasn't all that bothered by the high spike after several weeks of use though.

One big plus is the tightness of the fit which makes up for the lack of a lip on the KZ5. I occassionaly got my tips stuck in my ear and it's a terrible feeling!


----------



## Strat Rider (Jan 16, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Exactly! That's why I used the KZZSR coupon code and paid $16.99. Still an excellent deal.


I Was able to get my order placed yesterday.
My biggest problem is doing the math for the time zones.

Let's See..*.8 hours GMT*.*. 7 Hours GMT*,.*..What day is it on the Calendar? Carry the 0ne minus 6*.....Oh Hell!  too Late... Missed the sale Again LOL


----------



## HraD2

You can try xPower ET100 Foam Earphone Ear Tips Narrow bores improves bass a lot and removes harshness


----------



## Strat Rider

WalterTorino said:


> Congrats, great buy! I like my zs6 too


I ordered my ZSR yesterday, but I am really liking my ZS6 at the moment. 
No Mods, just foam tips using @Slater 's source for generic foamies. 

I did learn something from a post from Professor Slater I believe.
About picking one pair, (any iem) to walk out the door with, and listen to the same pair for the day.
I am admittedly bad about doing that. When I leave for work in the morning, I have no less than 4, usually 6 pairs in my bag. and tend to use multiple in one day (for no apparent reason). 

Listening to my ZS6 as my only iem yesterday and even into the evening, I grew more appreciation for their capabilities.


----------



## SiggyFraud

HraD2 said:


> Hi all. Got Pizen BT cable today. It do supports APT-X.


Can one really hear the difference between a cable that supports APT-X and one that doesn't?
Also, where did you buy yours?


----------



## HraD2

SiggyFraud said:


> Also, where did you buy yours?


https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/pize...32839613373.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.NqLFS8


----------



## NeonHD

Update: I know that the memory wire on the ZS6 is supposed to help keep the earphones secure in your ears, but in my case it rather pushes the earpiece out of my ears. I wear glasses so it's really hard for me to mold the wires to the shape of my ears. Would've really preferred a cable without the memory wire at the top.


----------



## svil3 (Jan 16, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> Update: I know that the memory wire on the ZS6 is supposed to help keep the earphones secure in your ears, but in my case it rather pushes the earpiece out of my ears. I wear glasses so it's really hard for me to mold the wires to the shape of my ears. Would've really preferred a cable without the memory wire at the top.



Like a lot of us, you can "mod" the cable, just cut the thermoretractile tube with some little scissors and remove the thin wire, just like in the picture, and yeah, for me an a lot others is way better


----------



## NeonHD

Strat Rider said:


> I ordered my ZSR yesterday, but I am really liking my ZS6 at the moment.
> No Mods, just foam tips using @Slater 's source for generic foamies.
> 
> I did learn something from a post from Professor Slater I believe.
> ...



I can well understand that. I usually A/B my KZ ED9 with other IEMs which created this under-appreciation for the ED9. I remember one day I just started using the ED9 for commute and nothing else, and at one point throughout the day I suddenly grew conscious of how good my music sounded with the ED9. It was like a subtle reminder about why I liked the sound of the ED9 in the first place. Same thing applies with all the things you use on a daily basis. For example I bought this laptop-tablet hybrid (Acer Switch Alpha 12) because I knew how good it was, but using it for an year has made me forget about how good this tablet is..... until I recently cracked part of the screen......


----------



## NeonHD

svil3 said:


> Like a lot of us, you can "mod" the cable, just cut the thermoretractile tube with some little scissors and remove the thin wire, just like in the picture, and yeah, for me an a lot others is way better



I think I might do that, or I might just buy the silver cable.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 16, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> I ordered my ZSR yesterday, but I am really liking my ZS6 at the moment.
> No Mods, just foam tips using @Slater 's source for generic foamies.
> 
> I did learn something from a post from Professor Slater I believe.
> ...


Wow! 5-6 pairs is something new for me  At the moment i have only KZ ZS6 and pair of Sennheisers - eH150 and HD449 (i like to have iem and big ones, you know, to use them depending on the mood) but actually after buying KZ i use only zs6. They are almost perfect for me  Especially cuz i have not much money for now 
Cheap foam ear cups + zs6 + smsl ivy = i like the sound of my Chineese android 
So, i guess, zs6 is very good headphones and very universal ones 
P.S. Sorry, maybe my english is not good enough


----------



## Wiljen

Got another text from DHL that the package they didn't deliver yesterday (after sending the text last week saying it would be delivered yesterday)  would be delivered today.  Then the meteorologists got involved and said we might get 1 inch of snow and they closed everything within 50 miles.   When did we become such pantywaists that we cannot do anything if we see 3 flakes?


----------



## Willber

WalterTorino said:


> Wow! 5-6 pairs is something new for me  At the moment i have only KZ ZS6 and pair of Sennheisers - eH150 and HD449 (i like to have iem and big ones, you know, to use them depending on the mood) but actually after buying KZ i use only zs6. They are almost perfect for me  Especially cuz i have not much money for now
> Cheap foam ear cups + zs6 + smsl ivy = i like the sound of my Chineese android
> So, i guess, zs6 is very good headphones and very universal ones
> P.S. Sorry, maybe my english is not good enough


Your English is fine. Enjoy your KZs!


----------



## Viber

Look what i got!!!

I didn't have much time to listen to these today, so i just told myself i'll connect the wires before i go to bed and see if they work... i couldn't help myself and put them in annnnnd....  these are pretty awesome!  I can't do isolation tests right now, but this is like the ZS3 and the ZS6 made a baby and then did some plastic surgery to that baby to make it more comfortable and a bit more pleasant sounding.
The ZS6 are probably a bit better, but this is what i always wanted the ZS3 to be.

I want to try these tomorrow to see if this is just Day-1 hype, but so far i think they are a steal at 20$-30$. Better than un-modded ZS5 v1 and ZS3 for sure.

/sorry in advance for Day-1 hype lol, a more well-rounded and balanced review will come soon


----------



## themindfreak

Viber said:


> Look what i got!!!
> 
> I didn't have much time to listen to these today, so i just told myself i'll connect the wires before i go to bed and see if they work... i couldn't help myself and put them in annnnnd....  these are pretty awesome!  I can't do isolation tests right now, but this is like the ZS3 and the ZS6 made a baby and then did some plastic surgery to that baby to make it more comfortable and a bit more pleasant sounding.
> The ZS6 are probably a bit better, but this is what i always wanted the ZS3 to be.
> ...


Haa damn better than ZS5 V1? Can't wait for mine to arrive as well whooo


----------



## Viber

themindfreak said:


> Haa damn better than ZS5 V1? Can't wait for mine to arrive as well whooo



Yea, but your mileage may vary blah blah blah


----------



## Slater (Feb 6, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> I think I might do that, or I might just buy the silver cable.



Most of the silver cables have the memory wire. As mentioned, the memory wire is easy to remove (from the stock or any upgrade cable).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 16, 2018)

Viber said:


> this is what i always wanted the ZS3 to be.



This is what I was hoping to hear.  I have green ZSRs on order.  I really liked my ZS3 but for some reason it was not comfortable so I traded it. I love my ZS6 and I do find it comfortable.



Viber said:


> sorry in advance for Day-1 hype lol, a more well-rounded and balanced review will come soon



I like day 1 hype.  I can feel the excitement.


----------



## Strat Rider

WalterTorino said:


> Wow! 5-6 pairs is something new for me  At the moment i have only KZ ZS6 and pair of Sennheisers - eH150 and HD449 (i like to have iem and big ones, you know, to use them depending on the mood) but actually after buying KZ i use only zs6. They are almost perfect for me  Especially cuz i have not much money for now
> Cheap foam ear cups + zs6 + smsl ivy = i like the sound of my Chineese android
> So, i guess, zs6 is very good headphones and very universal ones
> P.S. Sorry, maybe my english is not good enough


Your english is fine enough for me.

I do have a real appreciation for my ZS6 after about 6 hours accumulated throughout yesterday.


----------



## Viber

I'll say one thing: The guy who designed the ZSR and the guy who insisted to include the memory wire on the ZSR cannot be the same guy.

I bet the memory wire guy is like Steve Jobs and the ZSR guy is like Steve Wozniak.


----------



## Strat Rider

NeonHD said:


> Update: I know that the memory wire on the ZS6 is supposed to help keep the earphones secure in your ears, but in my case it rather pushes the earpiece out of my ears. I wear glasses so it's really hard for me to mold the wires to the shape of my ears. Would've really preferred a cable without the memory wire at the top.


I am with you!. As an eyeglass wearer myself, i had the same issue.
Since i removed the memory wire, comfort is top notch


----------



## bhazard

ZSR looks awesome. Bought one.


----------



## snip3r77

Viber said:


> Look what i got!!!
> 
> I didn't have much time to listen to these today, so i just told myself i'll connect the wires before i go to bed and see if they work... i couldn't help myself and put them in annnnnd....  these are pretty awesome!  I can't do isolation tests right now, but this is like the ZS3 and the ZS6 made a baby and then did some plastic surgery to that baby to make it more comfortable and a bit more pleasant sounding.
> The ZS6 are probably a bit better, but this is what i always wanted the ZS3 to be.
> ...



I have the ZS5v1, skipped ZS6 due to sibilance
Hope ZXR trumps ZS6 else we're just d1cking around sidegrading


----------



## spong_miester

My ZS6's arrived this morning and apart from getting used to the fit I'm extremely impressed by them, Has anyone got any recommendations for some new memory foam tips and a new cable? I can't justify buying the Comply ones when they are pretty much the same price as the earphones. Thanks in advance


----------



## Viber

snip3r77 said:


> I have the ZS5v1, skipped ZS6 due to sibilance
> Hope ZXR trumps ZS6 else we're just d1cking around sidegrading



What is ZXR??


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> Most of the silver cables have the memory wire. As mentioned, the memory wire is easy to remove (from the stock or any upgrade cable).



Hmm I will look into that. And speaking of cables I ordered the KZ Bluetooth Cable during the same time that I ordered the ZS6, so I'm probably going to get it some time soon, and once I do my ZS6 will transcend


----------



## bsoplinger

stryed said:


> Just received a few spinfits.
> …
> One big plus is the tightness of the fit which makes up for the lack of a lip on the KZ5. I occassionaly got my tips stuck in my ear and it's a terrible feeling!


I suggested getting foamies in T200 (4.0mm)  or T300 (4.5mm) size. Posted links in a previous post in this thread about them. They have smaller nozzle diameters than the typical T400 / T500 (4.9mm size) and the tighter fit keeps them on the nozzle instead of my ears. I lost both tips every time I used them on the ZS6 which has no lip on the end of the nozzle and 1 about half the time on the ZS5 which at least has a nominal lip. Going to the smaller diameter ones fixed the problem.


----------



## TLDRonin

bsoplinger said:


> I suggested getting foamies in T200 (4.0mm)  or T300 (4.5mm) size. Posted links in a previous post in this thread about them. They have smaller nozzle diameters than the typical T400 / T500 (4.9mm size) and the tighter fit keeps them on the nozzle instead of my ears. I lost both tips every time I used them on the ZS6 which has no lip on the end of the nozzle and 1 about half the time on the ZS5 which at least has a nominal lip. Going to the smaller diameter ones fixed the problem.


can you link them? Can't find it in your post history


----------



## bsoplinger (Jan 16, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> can you link them? Can't find it in your post history


This is the first time I've not quoted but instead posted a link. The couple of posts after have links to different quantities from the same seller.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1764#post-13924283

About a half dozen posts or so later I mention making a combined foam and silicone with Slater commenting a few later with that link.


----------



## chi-fi mel

I listened to all my KZ earphones today. (except the ZS3 which I hate) The one that sounds best is the ES3 with Spiral Dots, no shortage of bass. I have the ZS6 and had to seal up one BA on each ear to solve the treble issue, and it sounds good now. I have ZS5 v1, and my much modded ED9 with custom eartips and sealed vents. They sound good for music, but I prefer them for other audio. The ED2 is a real solid performer with Spiral Dots and it's quite a bargain. I love the ZSE which is a cool design and a comfortable fit. ZSE is well built, a total steal and I like the sound. Big mistake if you're a KZ fan and don't have these. I doubt I'll ever use over the ears as my daily drivers, especially with foam tips because it takes too long to untangle them, insert them and adjust the memory wire. I never use any KZ tips, not the Starlines, foams or Whirlwinds; I always get bad results with them. I see a lot of posts by fans of the ZS3. I sure hope they took the foam out of the nozzles unless they are fans of muddy sound.


----------



## yay101

ZSR in hand. Now to the testing!


----------



## hydroid (Jan 17, 2018)

yay101 said:


> ZSR in hand. Now to the testing!



Congrats bro.,how long did it take before finally receiving them? Will appreciate initial impressions, thanks


----------



## yay101

Cant speak for anyone else but i paid for faster shipping to Australia and it seems to have taken about 2-3 days from dispatch. I thought i was sent the wrong cable as getting the cable into the iems took way more force than my previous KZ's, so be careful when you get yours!

So far i haven't found anything it does super wrong, its brighter than the ZS5 mk1 (my previous most up to date KZ purchase) but from the user descriptions significantly less bright than the ZS6/ 5 mk2 "treble cannons". Bass is good too, ill switch it up to some guitar and see how the mids go. The soundstage is slightly wider than the ZS5 details and separation are about as good.


----------



## hydroid

yay101 said:


> Cant speak for anyone else but i paid for faster shipping to Australia and it seems to have taken about 2-3 days from dispatch. I thought i was sent the wrong cable as getting the cable into the iems took way more force than my previous KZ's, so be careful when you get yours!
> 
> So far i haven't found anything it does super wrong, its brighter than the ZS5 mk1 (my previous most up to date KZ purchase) but from the user descriptions significantly less bright than the ZS6/ 5 mk2 "treble cannons". Bass is good too, ill switch it up to some guitar and see how the mids go. The soundstage is slightly wider than the ZS5 details and separation are about as good.



Thanks for the heads up regarding the cable and your super fast impressions which all suits my preferences I guess.,. Cheers


----------



## charlescc2 (Feb 6, 2018)

Edit: After reading back a bit I think I got some answers on the ZSRs and will probably just monitor the thread for further info!


----------



## skajohyros

WalterTorino said:


> Wow! 5-6 pairs is something new for me  At the moment i have only KZ ZS6 and pair of Sennheisers - eH150 and HD449 (i like to have iem and big ones, you know, to use them depending on the mood) but actually after buying KZ i use only zs6. They are almost perfect for me  Especially cuz i have not much money for now
> Cheap foam ear cups + zs6 + smsl ivy = i like the sound of my Chineese android
> So, i guess, zs6 is very good headphones and very universal ones
> P.S. Sorry, maybe my english is not good enough



Don't worry about your English, it's fine. You won't see me trying to post on a Russian forum.


----------



## skajohyros

Viber said:


> Yea, but your mileage may vary blah blah blah


How's the soundstage as I love the stage of the zs5.


----------



## skajohyros

yay101 said:


> Cant speak for anyone else but i paid for faster shipping to Australia and it seems to have taken about 2-3 days from dispatch. I thought i was sent the wrong cable as getting the cable into the iems took way more force than my previous KZ's, so be careful when you get yours!
> 
> So far i haven't found anything it does super wrong, its brighter than the ZS5 mk1 (my previous most up to date KZ purchase) but from the user descriptions significantly less bright than the ZS6/ 5 mk2 "treble cannons". Bass is good too, ill switch it up to some guitar and see how the mids go. The soundstage is slightly wider than the ZS5 details and separation are about as good.


Really? Bigger stage than zs5.


----------



## Viber

skajohyros said:


> How's the soundstage as I love the stage of the zs5.



It's kinda hard to compare, maybe the ZS5 is a bit better in that regard.


----------



## WalterTorino

Strat Rider said:


> Your english is fine enough for me.
> 
> I do have a real appreciation for my ZS6 after about 6 hours accumulated throughout yesterday.


Yep, this headphones are one of those things that you should use for some time to get real pleasure from 
In fact this is the first time when the headphones I did not like at first but then I really fell in love with them. Usually, I either immediately like or not.


----------



## SONGsanmanwah

Ah... the hype...

Ordered one yesterday but, trusting my old ebay sharp shooting skill back in the day, found myself back playing around with the refresh button at that sweet time. Didn't see the discount but somehow ended up paying for another pair thinking the previous one went wrong. I must not be the only one x(. Anyway an old friend is up for some surprise gift.

Now let the wait begins...


----------



## LordZero

Does the 2pin connector angle makes difference in comfort? For example I ordered the BT cable for the ZS6(straight) and would like to use them with the ZSR too(Angled). Does it cause them to fall? discomfort, etc?


----------



## yay101

skajohyros said:


> Really? Bigger stage than zs5.



Not by much, it could just be me thinking about it but im guessing the 2 port holes in the casing are the culprit.



LordZero said:


> Does the 2pin connector angle makes difference in comfort? For example I ordered the BT cable for the ZS6(straight) and would like to use them with the ZSR too(Angled). Does it cause them to fall? discomfort, etc?



Comfort is a massive question mark at this stage. They have this weird hook shape to the body that feels somewhat sharp at first. Within seconds my brain seems to forget about it however so i wont complain too much. They come with an angled cable but i don't see straight or angled making a large difference as long as they are the thinner pinned ones.


----------



## Viber (Jan 17, 2018)

ZSR are so interesting to listen to. They kept me from going to bed last night.  I usually get a bit bored with In-Ears because they either lack treble or bass and the mids are stuffed into one block of sound.  I feel as if the ZSR are interesting because the separation is definitely there between one instrument to another you don't feel as if something is missing in the mix.

As their nozzle is longer than the ZS5/6, it's interesting to do tip rolling with them too:
 -faux t400 from ali\ebay are not that good for them imo. they're falling from my ears with those on.
 -stock tips are nice although some ppl will consider the zsr a bit too treble oriented with them.
-Trimmed,cheap foamies (no inner ring) from ebay are a good option for ppl who are treble sensitive.
-So far i find Small sized silicone tips like the ones that come with Awei earphones and maybe old KZs are the best in terms of seal, warmish sound.


----------



## ivo001 (Jan 17, 2018)

stryed said:


> Just received a few spinfits. Smaller bores than the KZ ZS5 stock ones. The CP220 M2 does well with these, both comfort & sound wise. I think they remove quite a bit of harshness (no mod required). I wasn't all that bothered by the high spike after several weeks of use though.
> 
> One big plus is the tightness of the fit which makes up for the lack of a lip on the KZ5. I occassionaly got my tips stuck in my ear and it's a terrible feeling!



Do the CP220 M2 really sit tight on the nozzle? According to the the pictures on the dunu AE page they have a bore of 4.4mm. And the CP100 M I have bought should have 3.8mm bore according to them, and I managed to get those on the KZ ZS5 as well.

The CP240 looks a bit better with 4mm bore, but the bottom flange is a bit wider.
I noticed the CP220 tend to cost $10-11 for just a single pair, quite expensive and double the price of the CP100. I did notice that NiceHCK sells a box with 1 pair of CP220 M1 + 1 pair of CP220 M2 for $16 together.

I'm also considering the MandarinES Symbio eartips, which go for $15 per 3 pair.
Not sure if I would need the N (3.8mm bore) or W (4.5mm) version though.


----------



## Wiljen

The saga continues - sometime last night a package was left on the porch.  Found it this morning covered in ice.   Letting it thaw and dry out and will open it later today once it warms up a bit.  To their credit, DHL did deliver.


----------



## ivo001

spong_miester said:


> My ZS6's arrived this morning and apart from getting used to the fit I'm extremely impressed by them, Has anyone got any recommendations for some new memory foam tips and a new cable? I can't justify buying the Comply ones when they are pretty much the same price as the earphones. Thanks in advance





bsoplinger said:


> I suggested getting foamies in T200 (4.0mm)  or T300 (4.5mm) size. Posted links in a previous post in this thread about them. They have smaller nozzle diameters than the typical T400 / T500 (4.9mm size) and the tighter fit keeps them on the nozzle instead of my ears. I lost both tips every time I used them on the ZS6 which has no lip on the end of the nozzle and 1 about half the time on the ZS5 which at least has a nominal lip. Going to the smaller diameter ones fixed the problem.



I have bought tips before from this seller
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pc...32773491286.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6vsGCt

You can leave a message for the size and color in the comment section while placing your order. I bought T300 grey for my ZS5, and they got on really easy. They did not come of yet when unplugging, but I can imagine that T200 will also fit and they should be a bit tighter. My eartips get damaged though in the zipper case because the connector from bluetooth cable digs into the foam.


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## skajohyros

Wiljen said:


> The saga continues - sometime last night a package was left on the porch.  Found it this morning covered in ice.   Letting it thaw and dry out and will open it later today once it warms up a bit.  To their credit, DHL did deliver.


Bravo DHL, 3am delivery.


----------



## bsoplinger

B9Scrambler said:


>


Wazzat?


----------



## B9Scrambler

bsoplinger said:


> Wazzat?



Limited Edition ZST. Was mentioned briefly a while back...Dec I think. Sounds the same as the regular ZST. Looks cooler though (imo).


----------



## Darthplagueis

I'll jump ship to kz camp when they'd release that 10 driver sweet-ling. Call me an idiot, but I desperately want to own a 10 driver iem without breaking the silence bank.

And that is while I know greater number of drivers inside don't necessarily guarantee good sound.

I use a dual driver Tennmak PROs as daily driver while not touching much the triple driver Xiaomi mi pro HD.

But I still want this to come true


----------



## KipNix

B9Scrambler said:


> Limited Edition ZST. Was mentioned briefly a while back...Dec I think. Sounds the same as the regular ZST. Looks cooler though (imo).


  They look like twin guitars from Cheap Trick. hahaha I like 'em.


----------



## Makahl (Jan 17, 2018)

Something weird happening on my mobile setup... I thought my phone couldn't handle the ZST because the volume was way below of any comfort levels. Although today I've noticed if I insert only 2 rings (stereo) it gets the full sound and it's very LOUD but If I connect the mic pin (3rd ring) it sounds lifeless. Has anyone else gotten a similar problem?

I got LG QB3 and Blitlzwolf BW-ES1 which has TRRS connector and mic too but they're working flawlessly just ZST has this problem, somehow very weird...


----------



## nkramer

LordZero said:


> Does the 2pin connector angle makes difference in comfort? For example I ordered the BT cable for the ZS6(straight) and would like to use them with the ZSR too(Angled). Does it cause them to fall? discomfort, etc?



for me, there really is no difference in comfort between the two connectors. (using ZST with both types) connectors barely touch my ear.

one thing to note though is the straight connector will work with just about everything, the angled will probably have to be trimmed to work with ones that came with a straight connector.


----------



## jaydm99 (Jan 17, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


>


It's a quote from Blackbeard from the anime One Piece

"People's dreams never end"

And that's why that color option is called "Dream"


----------



## ivo001

Makahl said:


> Something weird happening on my mobile setup... I thought my phone couldn't handle the ZST because the volume was way below of any comfort levels. Although today I've noticed if I insert only 2 rings (stereo) it gets the full sound and it's very LOUD but If I connect the mic pin (3rd ring) it sounds lifeless. Has anyone else gotten a similar problem?
> 
> I got LG QB3 and Blitlzwolf BW-ES1 which has TRRS connector and mic too but they're working flawlessly just ZST has this problem, somehow very weird...



Not familiar with this problem, but have you checked if you put the cables in in the right orientation? And did you do a phase test?


----------



## Wiljen

Makahl said:


> Something weird happening on my mobile setup... I thought my phone couldn't handle the ZST because the volume was way below of any comfort levels. Although today I've noticed if I insert only 2 rings (stereo) it gets the full sound and it's very LOUD but If I connect the mic pin (3rd ring) it sounds lifeless. Has anyone else gotten a similar problem?
> 
> I got LG QB3 and Blitlzwolf BW-ES1 which has TRRS connector and mic too but they're working flawlessly just ZST has this problem, somehow very weird...



Trade the cable for a TRS without a mic and see if it all works right.


----------



## LeWidget

Hi Guys,

Was about order some Xiaomi Piston (fresh version) from Gearbest when Is saw the advert for the KZ ZSR Hybrid

https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-kz-earphones-special-1556.html

They seem fancy lookin', and cheap, are they any good? This thread seems to have a lot of posts regarding the 'KZ' earphones, but being a novice audiophile, I mostly have no idea of the language spoken here


----------



## NeonHD (Jan 17, 2018)

So some minor complaints with the ZS6 (sorry I can't help it):

I think the sound signature just doesn't match with what I'm listening to, which is mainly EDM. Highs sound too sharp and upfront cause usually most EDM tracks emphasize treble for the drums and perc. However when listening to some mainstream pop music like from Bruno Mars, they sound absolutely wonderful with no harsh tonalities.
The in-ear fit really isn't that comfortable for prolonged use, or for sleeping in bed with.
And also the fit really doesn't isolate background noise well. It actually isolates very poorly, but I barely notice if I turn up the volume and also because its soundstage is just so big
The bass is plentiful, however I wish it was just a little bit louder as I'm sort of a basshead.
Overall I don't regret buying it, but I think I'd prefer the ZS5v1 more if was still available.

P.S. This is my 100th post


----------



## LordZero

Thank you 

How the zs6 compare to the RHA Ma750i? Mine ma750 broke after almost 4years


----------



## stryed

ivo001 said:


> Do the CP220 M2 really sit tight on the nozzle? According to the the pictures on the dunu AE page they have a bore of 4.4mm. And the CP100 M I have bought should have 3.8mm bore according to them, and I managed to get those on the KZ ZS5 as well.
> 
> The CP240 looks a bit better with 4mm bore, but the bottom flange is a bit wider.
> I noticed the CP220 tend to cost $10-11 for just a single pair, quite expensive and double the price of the CP100. I did notice that NiceHCK sells a box with 1 pair of CP220 M1 + 1 pair of CP220 M2 for $16 together.
> ...



Very firm fit! The tubing is made in such a way that there's little flexibility. 
I managed to get that NiceHCK  CP240x2 (M1 & M2) for 10eu. Gave the M1 away to someone who seems to like it. 

I think larger bores are the best for SQ. Mandarins look great but besides ebay I'm not sure where to get them.


----------



## svil3

LordZero said:


> Thank you
> 
> How the zs6 compare to the RHA Ma750i? Mine ma750 broke after almost 4years



Well, well, well, let me guess, they broke where the cable turs into the other material? 





Mine broke there like a year ago, the inner conductor is still conected but I put them to rest since it'll be just a matter of time to broke it without the outer layer.

I've the zs6s and certantly I dont miss the ma750s, they have quite different sound signatures actually but since i havent listened them for a while I don't excatly remember if one is clearly superior than the other.
I think I'm going to do an A/B testing tonight and answer you tomorrow.


----------



## LordZero

I don't know :/ I will look better, but the right driver went really quiet with 0 bass.

 I liked them, but sometimes I wanted them to have a little more bass.

Thanks, if you could compare them a little, would be great.


----------



## ivo001

stryed said:


> Very firm fit! The tubing is made in such a way that there's little flexibility.
> I managed to get that NiceHCK  CP240x2 (M1 & M2) for 10eu. Gave the M1 away to someone who seems to like it.
> 
> I think larger bores are the best for SQ. Mandarins look great but besides ebay I'm not sure where to get them.



How did you get that price? 11.11 deal?
Not sure if to pick CP220 M1/M2 or CP240 S/M


----------



## stryed (Jan 17, 2018)

ivo001 said:


> How did you get that price? 11.11 deal?
> Not sure if to pick CP220 M1/M2 or CP240 S/M



Not 11.11 as it was about 3 weeks ago.

As a double flange, I find the twinbaldes CP220 pretty long already. I don't think twinblades are really worth the price as the idea that it will twist inside your ear is pretty normal for a tri or bi flange with deep insertion (I will have to try them tomorrow as it's been CP100 day).

 The best tips I've ever had was a soft triflange that came with a brainwavz. I have yet to find anything as good. I might go hunt for some cheap tri/bi flanges on aliexpress.

The CP100 is something that can solve a problem that I had with single flange fit. Less soundstage perhaps compared to my experience with CP220 M2. Got a nice seal but I'm wondering if sibilance isn't worse than with the KZ stocks which have a wider bore. Will go back to the twinblades tomorrow...

*For the time being, I stand by my position that wider bores reduce treble peaks on the KZ5*. Spinfits (single & double flanged) seem to make it more V shaped, imo. Still great tips but perhaps not the best pairing.

I'm convinced that people who had problems with treble were using small bores...I'm going back to KZ stocks as they are slightly wider. My wide bores don't fit well it unfortunately. TERRIBLE DECISION BY KZ TO NOT INCLUDE LIPS!


----------



## govie (Jan 17, 2018)

I got my KZ ZS6 delivered in the mail today, gearbest took only 10 days this time! My eartips are comming by plane also and the benji j5 has allready arrived in my country. I compared the ZS6 to the Philips SHS3300 today with some house/dance for starters and the ZS6 has definatly more low bass and sounds more wide (is that called soundstage? I think so not sure tho). I can actually hear a bass for that matter but luckely not overly present, so they do not feel like a bad purchase at all, because  they sound better then a simple philips headphone (premium mainstraim brand in the netherlands). I also like the look & feel of the IEMs, feels like high quality casing but also a bit heavy (which does not have to be a bad thing). In 2 days I will go on a trailrun and see how well they stick in my ears when i am running with the standard tips and the c-foam ones I ordered.


----------



## erikbaboden

I just bought the SZ5 and, when connected to my macbook, I can hear a constant hiss. It doesn't change if I turn up or down the volume, but it's loud enough to be heard when I play something. There's some hiss even when connected to the iPhone, but it's way less perceivable. Is that normal or are my SZ5 defective?


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


>



And you did not tell me! I'm crushed

I mean they would make my Carbon's and Colorful's get lonely in their cases





It's like when I just had to have these DT5's for the Chinese writing on them


----------



## ivo001

govie said:


> I got my KZ ZS6 delivered in the mail today, gearbest took only 10 days this time! My eartips are comming by plane also and the benji j5 has allready arrived in my country. I compared the ZS6 to the Philips SHS3300 today with some house/dance for starters and the ZS6 has definatly more low bass and sounds more wide (is that called soundstage? I think so not sure tho). I can actually hear a bass for that matter but luckely not overly present, so they do not feel like a bad purchase at all, because  they sound better then a simple philips headphone (premium mainstraim brand in the netherlands). I also like the look & feel of the IEMs, feels like high quality casing but also a bit heavy (which does not have to be a bad thing). In 2 days I will go on a trailrun and see how well they stick in my ears when i am running with the standard tips and the c-foam ones I ordered.


 10 days to NL? Im waiting on packages from 28 november that has been stuck in poland for almkst a month


----------



## Slater

Attention fellow KZ lovers, ZS3 PSA for your information: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...9-jbl-t120a-9-99.832367/page-83#post-13981998


----------



## Wiljen

Well I got a listen this evening and I have to say the Zsr is not a step up from the Zs6 for me.  Big bass, with good extension but a pretty large mid-bass hump.  Mids are recessed (probably partially due to the mid-bass bleed) and vocals sound distant and lack life.   I hope they open up more as get a few hours on them and will certainly do more with them before I write them up.     They are going to be a very V shaped signature regardless but maybe with more time they will grow on me a bit.


----------



## NeonHD

Wiljen said:


> Well I got a listen this evening and I have to say the Zsr is not a step up from the Zs6 for me.  Big bass, with good extension but a pretty large mid-bass hump.  Mids are recessed (probably partially due to the mid-bass bleed) and vocals sound distant and lack life.   I hope they open up more as get a few hours on them and will certainly do more with them before I write them up.     They are going to be a very V shaped signature regardless but maybe with more time they will grow on me a bit.



Is the treble on the ZSR just as piercing as on the ZS6?


----------



## snip3r77

Wiljen said:


> Well I got a listen this evening and I have to say the Zsr is not a step up from the Zs6 for me.  Big bass, with good extension but a pretty large mid-bass hump.  Mids are recessed (probably partially due to the mid-bass bleed) and vocals sound distant and lack life.   I hope they open up more as get a few hours on them and will certainly do more with them before I write them up.     They are going to be a very V shaped signature regardless but maybe with more time they will grow on me a bit.


Nice impression


----------



## hydroid

Wiljen said:


> Well I got a listen this evening and I have to say the Zsr is not a step up from the Zs6 for me.  Big bass, with good extension but a pretty large mid-bass hump.  Mids are recessed (probably partially due to the mid-bass bleed) and vocals sound distant and lack life.   I hope they open up more as get a few hours on them and will certainly do more with them before I write them up.     They are going to be a very V shaped signature regardless but maybe with more time they will grow on me a bit.



If the ZSR is a step up from the ZST(which has recessed mids as well IMO) and has the bass quantity and comfort of the ZS3., I can settle for it I guess..


----------



## Viber

Wiljen said:


> Well I got a listen this evening and I have to say the Zsr is not a step up from the Zs6 for me.  Big bass, with good extension but a pretty large mid-bass hump.  Mids are recessed (probably partially due to the mid-bass bleed) and vocals sound distant and lack life.   I hope they open up more as get a few hours on them and will certainly do more with them before I write them up.     They are going to be a very V shaped signature regardless but maybe with more time they will grow on me a bit.



Maybe you need to try a different source or different tips? They are V-shaped, but not VERY v-shaped.
I already knew that the criticism about them will be that vocals and instruments seem to be thin/lack life etc, but i don't view it as a con, i view it as a design choice.

 The people who designed the ZSR understand that sound is a game of compromises. Consumers want real bass,they want every instrument and vocal part to sound rich and full and they want detailed, sizzling treble in *one* earphone - but how is the possible, really?

It seems as if the Dynamic Driver is acting as a subwoofer while the Armature Drivers are trying to include all the other instruments in a narrow,precise manner. Some people would like that sound signature and some people will not and that's understandable.


----------



## WalterTorino

Some people say that they sell theirs zs6's because of some peaks in Hz-Db (you all know this problem) and they say that this peaks can cause or habit of wrong sound or even hearing problems.
Any thoughts? Is this a real problem or am I too confiding?


----------



## VinceHill24

Viber said:


> Maybe you need to try a different source or different tips? They are V-shaped, but not VERY v-shaped.
> I already knew that the criticism about them will be that vocals and instruments seem to be thin/lack life etc, but i don't view it as a con, i view it as a design choice.
> 
> The people who designed the ZSR understand that sound is a game of compromises. Consumers want real bass,they want every instrument and vocal part to sound rich and full and they want detailed, sizzling treble in *one* earphone - but how is the possible, really?
> ...


I think it's more of a case of driver limitation. As if they've reached the limit in their driver and tuning and no other way else to breakthrough. 

If you notice throughout these 2 years, all kz earphones have been based upon just that few same dynamic driver and the same custom made BA driver over and over again. 

They had breakthrough in the design department surely but in the R&D of drivers, i think they've reached their limit. Kz need to bring something new to stay in the game or else we can basically predict every upcoming KZ model sound. And i think it's also why some of the KZ veteran here didn't quite get excited with the zsr. 

I hope there'll be significant breakthrough in their upcoming 5 drivers iem. They can't possibly be using that 30095 again for 4 of the BA right with their usual 10mm DD ? Lol


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 18, 2018)

VinceHill24 said:


> They had breakthrough in the design department surely but in the R&D of drivers, i think they've reached their limit. Kz need to bring something new to stay in the game or else we can basically predict every upcoming KZ model sound. And i think it's also why some of the KZ veteran here didn't quite get excited with the zsr.


Lets be honest - KZ still in the game, they still make very good product with very low price. Main problem that they do not change anything - we all know that problem of peaks will stay, that bass may be not very powerful. But. We still can wait good product with low price. This is nice.
But if KZ will do the work on the bugs - its gonna be a real breakthrough. But I'm not sure that price will stay low in case of this scenario...


----------



## hydroid

first ever ZSR unboxing for your viewing pleasure.,.I'm curious though whether the sound of song he played at 1:31 of the video is coming from the ZSR..


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 18, 2018)

hydroid said:


> first ever ZSR unboxing for your viewing pleasure.,.I'm curious though whether the sound of song he played at 1:31 of the video is coming from the ZSR


Thanks for the video!
Its hard to say if the sound of zsr good enough from this vid. If author has a same kind of video with zs6 - maybe then I could see a differense... I'll check his channel.

Upd: no, he hasnt... What a pity.


----------



## Viber (Jan 18, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> Lets be honest - KZ still in the game, they still make very good product with very low price. Main problem that they do not change anything - we all know that problem of peaks will stay, that bass may be not very powerful. But. We still can wait good product with low price. This is nice.
> But if KZ will do the work on the bugs - its gonna be a real breakthrough. But I'm not sure that price will stay low in case of this scenario...



If you will slap the Audio-Technica\Shure logo on the ZSR, give them a fancy box and have people demo it in a store you could sell them for 60$-80$. I guarantee it.

I reject the notion that ZSR represents KZ not going anywhere.  They had the ergonomic design with the ZS3, they had the advancement in sound with the ZS6 - The ZSR is the first time they combined both of these advantages in one product.

That memory wire has to go though, it's ruining the comfort time after time.


----------



## WalterTorino

Viber said:


> If you will slap the Audio-Technica\Shure logo on the ZSR, give them a fancy box and have people demo it in a store you could sell them for 60$-80$. I guarantee it.
> 
> I reject the notion that ZSR represents KZ not going anywhere.  They had the ergonomic design with the ZS3, they had the advancement in sound with the ZS6 - The ZSR is the first time they combined both of these advantages in one product.
> 
> That memory wire has to go though, it's ruining the comfort time after time.


Ok, i'll try zsr, you persuaded me


----------



## TLDRonin

Jay Magaling said:


> It's a quote from Blackbeard from the anime One Piece
> 
> "People's dreams never end"
> 
> And that's why that color option is called "Dream"


holy


Are they still for sale??


----------



## Wiljen

NeonHD said:


> Is the treble on the ZSR just as piercing as on the ZS6?



I'll side by side them today before answering.


----------



## Viber

WalterTorino said:


> Ok, i'll try zsr, you persuaded me



I'm not sure i want the pressure of people spending money because of me lol.   I'm just writing my opinion.  i hope you'd like it too and if you don't then don't yell at me haha


----------



## Viber (Jan 18, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> Is the treble on the ZSR just as piercing as on the ZS6?



The treble is similar, maybe a few % less on the ZSR.  My test song was "Ace Of Base - The Sign" (yay 90's).

I don't find it piercing though, depends on the song really. YMMV.
Also, Foam tips can help tame the treble on the ZSR.


----------



## WalterTorino

Viber said:


> I'm not sure i want the pressure of people spending money because of me lol.   I'm just writing my opinion.  i hope you'd like it too and if you don't then don't yell at me haha


I am not a person who likes to blame someone because of such things  Anyway I'm not very picky listener  If ZSR sound close to zs6 and if it have more bass - 80-90% i'll like it


----------



## jaydm99

TLDRonin said:


> holy
> 
> 
> Are they still for sale??


I checked the KZ official AliExpress store yesterday. It's not available anymore.


----------



## LordZero

So if you own the Zs6, would be ZSR  a upgrade, downgrade or the same?


----------



## thebigredpolos

Jay Magaling said:


> I checked the KZ official AliExpress store yesterday. It's not available anymore.


I read that when I ordered my ZST in limited edition Joker print in December that they're only releasing 200 a month.  Here's a link to the dead (no longer available) listing on KZ's store on Ali, where those curious can see the 3 limited edition prints, and mention of the "limited edition of the monthly 200" for those curious.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...uetooth-Cable-Wings-Joker-OP/32848167031.html


----------



## jaydm99

thebigredpolos said:


> I read that when I ordered my ZST in limited edition Joker print in December that they're only releasing 200 a month.  Here's a link to the dead (no longer available) listing on KZ's store on Ali, where those curious can see the 3 limited edition prints, and mention of the "limited edition of the monthly 200" for those curious.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...uetooth-Cable-Wings-Joker-OP/32848167031.html


I was really confused by that broken english from the KZ store. I thought they meant only the first 200 orders will get the discount


----------



## thebigredpolos

Jay Magaling said:


> I was really confused by that broken english from the KZ store. I thought they meant only the first 200 orders will get the discount


I did see them become available for about a week at the beginning of the year as well (although I don't remember if the price was $12 or $30), but things can definitely get lost in translation, so who really knows.


----------



## bsoplinger

thebigredpolos said:


> I did see them become available for about a week at the beginning of the year as well (although I don't remember if the price was $12 or $30), but things can definitely get lost in translation, so who really knows.


I'd love to get all 3 styles, or at least the wings and joker ones. But if they are $30 I wouldn't as they aren't *that* unique.


----------



## bsoplinger (Jan 18, 2018)

Deal on the basic white style KZ upgrade cable posted on the Gearbest deal thread by @George-gearbest $3 for the cable with code, limited quantity

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...es-splitter-0-39.832367/page-83#post-13983119

PS: unrelated to KZ but since the deal link shows them… Is it just me or do the Original Xiaomi Mi Capsule Half In-ear Earphones with Mic look very strange?


----------



## Viber

LordZero said:


> So if you own the Zs6, would be ZSR  a upgrade, downgrade or the same?



Sidegrade.


----------



## Buchi

Thanks to you guys, I just got my first chi-fi, Kz ATR. I don't know much about the music terms but all I can say is that sound wise, it's better than all the iems I've ever owned but microphonics could be better.


----------



## Buchi (Jan 18, 2018)

Double post.


----------



## mbwilson111

LordZero said:


> So if you own the Zs6, would be ZSR  a upgrade, downgrade or the same?





Viber said:


> Sidegrade.



A sidegrade is what I am expecting.  I love my ZS6 but from what people are saying I think the ZSR is worth adding to the "collection."   It won't sound  the same.   Of course I do not NEED it but I really like the look of that translucent green  I only wish they had done a deep translucent purple - amethyst.  That would have been even better!  A deep translucent amber would also be nice.  Something like these  images:


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> I'd love to get all 3 styles, or at least the wings and joker ones. But if they are $30 I wouldn't as they aren't *that* unique.



The $30 does not bother me because I think the ZST is worth thirty, I've contacted He Yue at KZ store and he has put me on a contact list for the next production run of the Ltd. Ed ZST's. Told him I was interested in the Joker and OP Dreams and he said he would make me a deal on all three if I wanted them of course he's also seen my massive KZ collection and I'm sure he is anxious to help me keep building LOL


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> I checked the KZ official AliExpress store yesterday. It's not available anymore.





thebigredpolos said:


> I read that when I ordered my ZST in limited edition Joker print in December that they're only releasing 200 a month.  Here's a link to the dead (no longer available) listing on KZ's store on Ali, where those curious can see the 3 limited edition prints, and mention of the "limited edition of the monthly 200" for those curious.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...uetooth-Cable-Wings-Joker-OP/32848167031.html





bsoplinger said:


> I'd love to get all 3 styles, or at least the wings and joker ones. But if they are $30 I wouldn't as they aren't *that* unique.



You could always paint a regular set - just protect with a top coat of mod podge or clear acrylic nail polish.


----------



## jaydm99

thebigredpolos said:


> I did see them become available for about a week at the beginning of the year as well (although I don't remember if the price was $12 or $30), but things can definitely get lost in translation, so who really knows.


They were $12 for a limited time. Then the regular price is 30


----------



## jaydm99

New ZSR Review from TechmanZ:


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> You could always paint a regular set - just protect with a top coat of mod podge or clear acrylic nail polish.


If I was going to go to that sort of trouble and because I can print my own decals (with white color) I'd just get the translucent green ZSR and print up decals for those once I remove that awful left right writing on them. And if I was going to that much trouble, well it'd be too much trouble to go through  if that makes any sense


----------



## bsoplinger

Jay Magaling said:


> New ZSR Review from TechmanZ:…


I don't know if I missed it on the other pictures of the ZSR or just that this video shows off the nozzle better than the pictures did but why did KZ continue with their design fopa (IMHO) of not putting much in the way of a lip on the nozzle to keep ear tips attached. The lip on the KZ5 was small and non-existent on the ZS6 and these don't seem much better.


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> New ZSR Review from TechmanZ:



Here's something interesting I noticed in the video. Check out the size difference between each pin socket in the 2-pin female connector. It actually looks like there's 2 different sizes of pins - the one on the left side is significantly smaller than the one on the right (or at least the left one isn't spread out nearly as open as the right side).

Anyways, just an observation...


----------



## smy1

Should i just go ahead and order the zsr? Or will there be another big sale?


----------



## khighly (Jan 18, 2018)

Just got the 1More Triple Fi's. Initial Impressions: They sound* very much like the ZS5v1*, however they have a more pronounced low/mid end and are very bassy (almost too much). Harder to drive. Mids/Highs sound roughly the same. I'll reply more after I've given these a few days.

Edit: Lost one side of my ZS6's while attached to the Bluetooth Cable (F$%K Bluetooth). Went back to the ZS5v1's and forgot what I was missing. ZS6 is ok and you get used to it, but the ZS5v1 is just better.


----------



## Willber

Buchi said:


> Thanks to you guys, I just got my first chi-fi, Kz ATR. I don't know much about the music terms but all I can say is that sound wise, it's better than all the iems I've ever owned but microphonics could be better.


Welcome to the forum and enjoy your KZs.
Put a lock on your wallet!


----------



## Wiljen

NeonHD said:


> Is the treble on the ZSR just as piercing as on the ZS6?



No,  the Zsr does have the same treble spike but, to my ear, it is between 4 and 6 db below that of the Zs6.  I think the BA used has that spike in pretty much all the Zs series but the Zsr crossover may be mitigating it just a bit.   Treble still shows a bit of extra energy but not to the degree of the Zs5v1 or Zs6.


----------



## Wiljen

Viber said:


> Maybe you need to try a different source or different tips? They are V-shaped, but not VERY v-shaped.
> I already knew that the criticism about them will be that vocals and instruments seem to be thin/lack life etc, but i don't view it as a con, i view it as a design choice.
> 
> The people who designed the ZSR understand that sound is a game of compromises. Consumers want real bass,they want every instrument and vocal part to sound rich and full and they want detailed, sizzling treble in *one* earphone - but how is the possible, really?
> ...



4 different sources, and 3 different cables later as well as foams in addition to the tips they come with and the Zsr is still a predominant V and still has recessed mids.   I'll stick by my initial description.    It has the bass of the Zs3 and maybe a bit more with the treble of the Zs6 toned down by about 4db.  Spike is still there, just not as large as Zs5v1 or Zs6.   

They have great slam and @vidar 's comment regarding the dynamic being a subwoofer is exactly on the mark.  Lots of sub-bass, big mid-bass (with a fair amount of bass bleed into the mids) and big treble.    Mids are definitely in the backseat on this one


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Jan 18, 2018)

Last picture of all my Christmas toys I got for myself.
 Upper left corner is the KZ ES3. I really love these, they sound good with everything and are very comfortable. (The tips are from some JBLs that came with my ZTE Axon) Upper right is the KZ ZST Pro. They sound very similar to the ES3 but with a little less emphasis on the bass... I'm giving them to my neighbor John. I've blabbed so much about the technology of these things that he is curious about BA drivers and such. I'm excited to get him into the hobby.
Lower right KZ ZS3: DOA. Boo! There is a bad batch out there people! I've heard of at least 10 other people that got defective units. Lower left KZ ZS5 A technological marvel, especially considering they were about $12.00 ...I have New Bee foams on them (right ear is a large and installed backwards, the left is a medium. I have odd ears)
and I put a little bit of foam in the nozzle to dampen the treble...with the mods and burn in I am really starting to enjoy them. I had trouble with them at first...the treble was overly harsh, sharp,bright etc...I could only enjoy listening in small doses...I actually liked the ES3 better than an unmodded ZS5, right now I am really enjoying the ZS5.
It really is the best time in history to be a music lover.


----------



## paulindss

Jay Magaling said:


> New ZSR Review from TechmanZ:




That guy's impressions on sound and comparisions only makes me confuse. Not as brighter as Zs5 but brighter than zst ? 

That's why i don't risk myself describing and comparing sound to anyone.


----------



## Slater (Jan 18, 2018)

smy1 said:


> Should i just go ahead and order the zsr? Or will there be another big sale?



Let me consult my magical future-telling crystal ball for the answers to that question LOL



Ooooo, ahhhhhhh, woooooooo...spooky!

j/k with you buddy - the stuff is always on sale. Gearbest just had the ATE on flash sale, years after it was initially released. They also have the ZST on sale all of the time, and that came out 2015-2016. So I think it's safe to say that the ZSR will be on sale off and on for a long while.


----------



## HiFiChris

khighly said:


> Just got the 1More [Triple-Drivers] Initial Impressions: They sound* very much like the ZS5v1*, however they have a more pronounced low/mid end and are very bassy (almost too much). Harder to drive. Mids/Highs sound roughly the same. I'll reply more after I've given these a few days.



Yup. Noticed that as well (http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2017/06/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs5-review.html - it's unfortunately in German (albeit with a Google Translate widget below the navigation bar), but scrolling down to the 1More comparison (that I even only wrote because I immediately noticed how similar the ZS5 v1 sounds after some brief listening), you can see a measurement graph overlay of the ZS5 v1 and 1More E1001). 

PS: Please never call the 1More E1001 triple-driver IEMs Triple.Fi. Like never ever again, pretty please.


----------



## Aevum

The connector... 1 0.75mm pin and 1.0.78mm pin ?

As for offers...
I guess the early bird gets the wurm
https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-kz-earphones-special-1556.html


----------



## Slater

HiFiChris said:


> Yup. Noticed that as well (http://kopfhoerer-lounge.blogspot.com/2017/06/knowledge-zenith-kz-zs5-review.html - it's unfortunately in German (albeit with a Google Translate widget below the navigation bar), but scrolling down to the 1More comparison (that I even only wrote because I immediately noticed how similar the ZS5 v1 sounds after some brief listening), you can see a measurement graph overlay of the ZS5 v1 and 1More E1001).
> 
> PS: Please never call the 1More E1001 triple-driver IEMs Triple.Fi. Like never ever again, pretty please.



Which version of ZS5 was in your review? The article did not specify.


----------



## Tyler Durden

I've just become aware of these earphones as GearBest sent me an email saying they had a flash sale on.
There are so many different models that I've got confused already! 
Where should I start? 
Which is generally thought to be the best?


----------



## stjimmyjos

What's the best bt cable for ZS6 available? Where we don't lose so much sound quality? Also anybode compared ZS6 vs Meizu EP51 or newer EP52?


----------



## Viber

stjimmyjos said:


> What's the best bt cable for ZS6 available? Where we don't lose so much sound quality? Also anybode compared ZS6 vs Meizu EP51 or newer EP52?




ZS6 sounds better than the EP52 in any way shape or form.
EP52 are much more suited to be worn during sports or during active days.  EP52 looks draw less attention as well.


----------



## stjimmyjos

Viber said:


> ZS6 sounds better than the EP52 in any way shape or form.
> EP52 are much more suited to be worn during sports or during active days.  EP52 looks draw less attention as well.



ZS6 will be sounding better od KZ bluetooth cable or should i look at some 3rd party cables at aliexpress ?


----------



## Viber

stjimmyjos said:


> ZS6 will be sounding better od KZ bluetooth cable or should i look at some 3rd party cables at aliexpress ?



I dont have the BT cable so i can't comment on that... It seems like the ones on Ali has more battery life though.
I'm waiting for KZ to release a better version of the cable, but who knows when it will happen.


----------



## stjimmyjos

Viber said:


> I dont have the BT cable so i can't comment on that... It seems like the ones on Ali has more battery life though.
> I'm waiting for KZ to release a better version of the cable, but who knows when it will happen.


Is there any info about incoming successor to kz zs6?


----------



## Pruikki

Slater said:


> Here's something interesting I noticed in the video. Check out the size difference between each pin socket in the 2-pin female connector. It actually looks like there's 2 different sizes of pins - the one on the left side is significantly smaller than the one on the right (or at least the left one isn't spread out nearly as open as the right side).
> 
> Anyways, just an observation...


 I noticed that too, weird


----------



## Viber

stjimmyjos said:


> Is there any info about incoming successor to kz zs6?








That's all i got .


----------



## HraD2

Guys, how can i check zs5 version? V1 or V2? It was bought Jun. 07 2017


----------



## Slater (Jan 19, 2018)

HraD2 said:


> Guys, how can i check zs5 version? V1 or V2? It was bought Jun. 07 2017



Remove the eartip. Then shine a light into the nozzle of the earphone (hold the light about 12-24" away) and move the light around.

The light will catch the edges of the BA drivers through the nozzle mesh, and you will see 1 or 2 small circles (these are the BA drivers).

If you have 1 circle, it's a ZS5 v1. If you see 2 circles, it's a ZS5 v2.

Like this photo (see the 2 little circles through the mesh - this is a ZS5 v2):



For reference, here's what the drivers look like with the mesh screen completely removed so you can see a clearer picture of what you're looking for when using the flashlight method:



See the 1 vs 2 BA drivers in the nozzle? The ZS5 v1 is on the left and the ZS5 v2 is on the right.


----------



## HraD2

Slater said:


> If you have 1 circle, it's a ZS5 v1. If you see 2 circles, it's a ZS5 v2.


Thanks, it's v1 )


----------



## kar-re

Hey everyone! 
Bought a pair of ZS3s and a bluetooth adapter as a christmas gift for my mother, but it seems like the usb port has broken or something as there's no feedback when charging it anymore. 
Does anyone have experience of this and maybe know a fix? It's not a big deal as the bluetooth module is only 6€, I'll buy another one.


----------



## Slater

HraD2 said:


> Thanks, it's v1 )



Lucky you! That's the golden ticket!

ZS5 v1 > ZS5 v2


----------



## HiFiChris

Slater said:


> Which version of ZS5 was in your review? The article did not specify.



Back when I reviewed it, there was only the ZS5 V1 on the market.


----------



## durwood (Jan 19, 2018)

Are there any measurements of the ZS5v2 anywhere and secondly did the same person/site also measure the ZS5v1? I would be curious to see how the measurements correspond to what people hear.

Third, is it possible to relocate one of the BA's back to it's original spot? I assume the shell was not modified, you would just have to deal with a lot of glue perhaps?


----------



## C2thew

Hey guys new head-fi'er here.  I currently own a set of UE triple.fi. 10's, KZ ZS3's, and a KZ ZS6 that's in the mail. I.am.absoultely.in love with the fit of the ZS3 and when I heard that the KZ ZSR's had the same ergonomics as the KZ ZS3's, I was ready to order a set.  I'm trying to get on the 9.99 deal but for some reason every time I get to that page at 09:00 UTC at 1 A.M. PST the price changes from 16.99 to 9.99 (but then shows $23.99 in the actual cart) -- darn gearbest.  Anyone else having that problem?

The KZ ZS3's have pretty much become my daily drivers for when I run as they don't fall out of my ear compared to my UE triple fi 10's.  Sure they don't sound as clear compared to triple fi's, however they isolate sound better and fit like a dream compared to the stock triple fi 10's.  I'm hoping that the ZS6's are going to be that good as well (with the necessary mods of course--did my research well in advance).

anywho new member just saying hi!


----------



## ivo001

Received the KZ ZS3 that I ordered on 22 december on Gearbest. Quite decent shipping time on these. What is weird is that the latest tracking update was 15 jan left processing center Malashevichy Poland, where it arrived on 13 jan. Meanwhile, no sign of the Superlux headset that has arrived there on 20 dec and the xiaomi gloves that arrived there 29 dec. Strange. Looks like they shoved those boxes in a corner and they will gather dust there till they cleared out the full storage?

About the ZS3, haven't noticed a defective yet, both sides seem to be working. The fit is amazing, they go deep in my ear and create a perfect seal. It feels a bit like vacuum when I have to pop them out. But due to the deep fit the sound sounds very muffled? What is weird is that if I press my fingers on the iem, I get a lot fuller sound, but if I lift my fingers they don't staf that way and go a lot more muffled again. Would I need to do some tiprolling?


----------



## AKMW44

HraD2 said:


> Thanks, it's v1 )


Have you got a link for the v1 pls


----------



## ivo001

AKMW44 said:


> Have you got a link for the v1 pls



Discontinued.


----------



## Tyler Durden

There's a flash sale on KZ earphones on Gearbest at the moment.
Where should my money go on my first pair(s)?


----------



## HraD2

AKMW44 said:


> Have you got a link for the v1 pls





ivo001 said:


> Discontinued.



Yes, discontinued, but as you wish... https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/In-S...32811436748.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.t1ZDtT


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 19, 2018)

Gentlemen and ladies, please, any advice, how can i increase/boost bass in my zs6 without using equalizers or some kind of freaky boosters? I really like my zs, but a little bit more of bass could be a cherry on the cake


----------



## bsoplinger

durwood said:


> … Third, is it possible to relocate one of the BA's back to it's original spot? I assume the shell was not modified, you would just have to deal with a lot of glue perhaps?


You know, I wondered this myself. Especially when a few folks had posted pics of the inside of the housing showing where the original location was and how it still was there since KZ didn't change the mold used to make the shells. 

But I believe that there's another difference besides location of the BA between v2 and ZS6. They both either have a crossover that the v1 lacks or the other way around. 

Perhaps @Slater or someone else can chime in with the answer.


----------



## Slater (Jan 19, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> Gentlemen and ladies, please, any advice, how can i increase/boost bass in my zs6 without using equalizers or some kind of freaky boosters? I really like my zs, but a little bit more of bass could be a cherry on the cake



1. Switch to a silicone tip with small bore, such as the included Starline tips.
2. Put a small piece of micropore tape over the bass vent hole:




3. If 1 and 2 still isn't enough, remove the piece of micropore tape from step 2 and totally seal the bass vent hole with a small piece of solid tape (masking tape, blue painter's tape, cello tape, foil tape, etc) or blue tac.


----------



## Strat Rider

With the interest of bluetooth cables atm, i have a question for the KZ gurus.

There are 2 cable styles commonly shown at the iem connection. 
The angle (think zst) and straight (zs6)

Unfortunately i have not been able to find the actual pin diameter listed for either style. I do know there is 0.75mm and 0.78mm.
Do the pin sizes corrospond to a certain style of connector?


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> Are there any measurements of the ZS5v2 anywhere and secondly did the same person/site also measure the ZS5v1?



I have FR graphs of the ZS5v1 vs ZS6, which should be very very similar. Will those work for you?



durwood said:


> Third, is it possible to relocate one of the BA's back to it's original spot?





bsoplinger said:


> You know, I wondered this myself. Especially when a few folks had posted pics of the inside of the housing showing where the original location was and how it still was there since KZ didn't change the mold used to make the shells.
> 
> But I believe that there's another difference besides location of the BA between v2 and ZS6. They both either have a crossover that the v1 lacks or the other way around.
> 
> Perhaps @Slater or someone else can chime in with the answer.



That would be an awful lot of work:

1. Without a way to dissolve the glue, you will end up having a lot of trouble trying to do this after-the-fact.
2. How and where will you run the wires? They are all sealed in with glue. Sure, you can remove the BA from the nozzle and physically move it, but routing the wiring will be problematic.
3. The drivers are wired differently in the ZS5 v2 and ZS6 than they are in the ZS5 v1. You would have to figure out what you're going to do with the wiring (keep it, rewire it like the ZS5 v1).
4. There is no crossover in the ZS5 v1. You would have to figure out what you're going to do with the crossover (keep it, remove it).

That's a whole lot of work for a <$15 IEM.


----------



## Slater (Jan 19, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> With the interest of bluetooth cables atm, i have a question for the KZ gurus.
> 
> There are 2 cable styles commonly shown at the iem connection.
> The angle (think zst) and straight (zs6)
> ...



98% of KZ stuff is 0.75mm.

There is ONE, count it ONE KZ IEM with 0.78mm - the original run of the ZS3.

If you buy 3rd party or stock 2-pin upgrade cables for anything KZ, it's almost certain that you'll want/need/receive 0.75mm cables.

You CAN buy 0.78mm 3rd party cables (not made for KZ), but they will permanently stretch out the KZ IEM pins. This may seem like an OK idea and it technically will work, but be aware that once the pins stretch out you'll never be able to go back to 0.75mm cables again (ie you'll always have to stick with 0.78mm 3rd party cables).


----------



## Saoshyant

@Slater As a side note, .78mm is certainly the more common of the two.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 19, 2018)

Slater said:


> 1. Switch to a silicone tip with small bore, such as the included Starline tips.
> 2. Put a small piece of micropore tape over the bass vent hole:
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot, i'll try it!


----------



## Slater (Jan 19, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> @Slater As a side note, .78mm is certainly the more common of the two.



For non-KZ stuff, yes. For KZ stuff, no.

I always figured KZ went with the obscure 0.75mm pin size because they knew they were going to start producing a line of their own upgrade cables. I mean, most of us now have a handful of KZ upgrade cables (which at the time were only available FROM KZ).

Just like Apple iPhone Lightning vs Micro USB connectors, Macbook magnetic A/C plug vs DC barrel tips, Gillette razor cartridges not fitting Schick razors, or HP print cartridges not fitting Canon printers. Proprietary (or should I say obscure) = near monopoly (or at least 3rd party clones start showing up).

Or are you saying that I have the 2 pin sizes mixed up?


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm just saying there is a huge amount of .78mm cable options vs the more limited supply of .75mm due to that size being used by KZ, Rose Tech & a handful of others.


----------



## oyobass (Jan 19, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> I'm just saying there is a huge amount of .78mm cable options vs the more limited supply of .75mm due to that size being used by KZ, Rose Tech & a handful of others.


The KZ .75mm fit my ancient UE single BA Ultimate Ears IEM from the pre-Logitech era.
Fit pretty snugly, too.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Speaking of cables is there something out there that works with the ZS6 other than the 8 braid one by KZ?


----------



## BrunoC

Dark Helmet said:


> Speaking of cables is there something out there that works with the ZS6 other than the 8 braid one by KZ?



The black ZS6 will certainly look good with your mask


----------



## Dark Helmet

BrunoC said:


> The black ZS6 will certainly look good with your mask


I have the black and just ordered the red today.


----------



## NeonHD (Jan 19, 2018)

Lol this is my second pair of ED9 since my first one broke, I just couldn't live without it. Upon unboxing it, I just realized that the foam packaging as seen in the picture could be used as foam filters. So I cut off super tiny pieces of foam and tried sticking it into the BA nozzles of the ZS6 with a needle and see if there is any difference with the sound. Unfortunately the treble is still as piercing as before 

I also tried putting some of that foam into my Swing IE800 and WOW it drastically reduced that super sharp treble while drastically bringing up the bass! The Swing was one of my least favorite IEMs, but after this mod it is the perfect IEM for listening to EDM! Unfortunately, I ran into a bit of an accident while modding and ruined the driver of the left ear (needle went too far into the housing)


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> 98% of KZ stuff is 0.75mm.
> 
> There is ONE, count it ONE KZ IEM with 0.78mm - the original run of the ZS3.
> 
> ...


Thanks @Slater, I somehow knew you had this info.
The reason I was concerned, i have a zs5 v1, and was wondering if I may have inadvertently forced a. 0.78 pin into a 0.75 socket. The only BT cable I tried had the angled connector, and now the right earpiece is loose when I use the silver cable. 

Since then, I have contracted the need.... The need for KZ. 
I ordered 2 more BT cables (flash sales get me every time) and they also have the angled connector. 

I recently bought ES3, ZST, ZS5 v2, ZS6, and patiently awaiting ZSR. 

I actually like this BT at work, I am usually at my work bench testing components, but without notice will be called to the manufacturing floor, and crawling around and underneath equipment. So shortness of the cables makes sense.

Love my job, but I don't let anything come between me and my music.


----------



## Strat Rider

oyobass said:


> The KZ .75mm fit my ancient UE single BA Ultimate Ears IEM from the pre-Logitech era.
> Fit pretty snugly, too.


This is good to know. I have a pair of Ue Superfi 5's, and the reason I quit using them was a broken cable and refusing to pay, (even then pre Logitech , prices)  from Ultimate ears.


----------



## HiFiChris

NeonHD said:


> So I cut off super tiny pieces of foam and tried sticking it into the BA nozzles of the ZS6 with a needle and see if there is any difference with the sound. Unfortunately the treble is still as piercing as before



Imo adding resistance is the better way to go with the ZS6 - either by using an adapter or by soldering the resistors directly into the cable.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Jan 20, 2018)

.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Tyler Durden said:


> There's a flash sale on KZ earphones on Gearbest at the moment.
> Where should my money go on my first pair(s)?


I say get an ES3 and a ZS5 and a pack of new bee foams and stop following this thread.


----------



## Tyler Durden

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I say get an ES3 and a ZS5 and a pack of new bee foams and stop following this thread.



Thanks. 
Why stop following the thread?


----------



## WalterTorino

Viber said:


> That's all i got .


Dammit! 4BA! Why not 3+2? Or it's kinda "we need more piercing highs"???


----------



## Viber

> zs4 and zs10 is still pending and there has been no update about it yet. Because the Chinese New Year festive season is near so all new product production will be arranged to a later date while now they're focusing on ZSR and existing product lineup before going for the long CNY holiday. Probably some update about their progress will be expected after the new year.


----------



## hydroid




----------



## Slater

Tyler Durden said:


> Thanks.
> Why stop following the thread?



Because you catch the KZ fever and it’s all downhill from there (for your wallet anyways).


----------



## Slater

WalterTorino said:


> Dammit! 4BA! Why not 3+2? Or it's kinda "we need more piercing highs"???



More BAs don’t always = piercing highs. It all depends on the drivers used, the design, tuning, etc.

The Magaosi K5 is a 5BA, and it’s a fun, engaging IEM with lovely highs.

I do think KZ needs to branch out and try other BA models. They keep using the same 2 over and over, which is one of the reasons why their last 4-5 offerings sound fairly similar to one another.


----------



## CoiL

or... You finally manage to save up from buying cheapos and jump to next tier of IEMs (which, IMHO, is much more sensible!). I just am into modding cheapo iems for learinig and testing different things


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Tyler Durden said:


> Thanks.
> Why stop following the thread?


because otherwise you are going to turn into one of the maniacs around here with a dozen sets of KZs!


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Jan 20, 2018)

HiFiChris said:


> Imo adding resistance is the better way to go with the ZS6 - either by using an adapter or by soldering the resistors directly into the cable.


What the name for the adapter and specs to look for?


----------



## HiFiChris

nadezhda 6004 said:


> What the name for the adapter and specs to look for?



Just look for "impedance adapter". @hakuzen  has posted some before/after measurements in this thread. I think I have as well.

75 Ohms is quite common. Should be available on Penon Audio, ebay, AliExpress, ...


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 20, 2018)

Slater said:


> More BAs don’t always = piercing highs. It all depends on the drivers used, the design, tuning, etc.
> 
> The Magaosi K5 is a 5BA, and it’s a fun, engaging IEM with lovely highs.
> 
> I do think KZ needs to branch out and try other BA models. They keep using the same 2 over and over, which is one of the reasons why their last 4-5 offerings sound fairly similar to one another.


Yeah, I guess its gonna be interesting if KZ will do some experiment with another drivers.

Btw, can you recommend any model from KZ with good deep bass but with the same detailed mids and highs? Is only ZSR close to it?

Wow... Magaosi looks great and i believe it sounds great too. But it's way more expensive than i can afford for now...
I guess $100-150 is a maximum that i can spend.


----------



## Makahl (Jan 20, 2018)

Slater said:


> More BAs don’t always = piercing highs. It all depends on the drivers used, the design, tuning, etc.
> 
> The Magaosi K5 is a 5BA, and it’s a fun, engaging IEM with lovely highs.
> 
> I do think KZ needs to branch out and try other BA models. They keep using the same 2 over and over, which is one of the reasons why their last 4-5 offerings sound fairly similar to one another.



+1.
There are cheaper Chinese BA drivers nowadays (bellsing/estron) with a similar design from Knowles which can be more interesting for KZ projects. Even for DIYers trying to learn how to tune or play with crossovers and etc... Someone made this list which can be helpful: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gFl8N3JvOi8HQrZbn8zxRMClBfxPpoh4XvQlzPyCki0/edit#gid=0

I always thought the idea of double BA at the nozzle would be more suitable for something like the TWFK's design since it has only one bore linking two BAs, thus it's easier to tune and you'll get all extension and avoid frequencies canceling each other due to possible phase problems or alignment problems might causing minor channel imbalance if you imagine how hard is keep that in high demand of production.

Btw, my perfect KZ would be ZS3's shell all black matte +  ED9 filters options design or ala LZ A5 and configuration similar to DN2000 (DD for bass and TWFK for mid/treble). They have all knowledge to create something like this and I wouldn't mind paying the mid-range ($50-100) category for it.


----------



## NeonHD

Tyler Durden said:


> Thanks.
> Why stop following the thread?



Cause you'll be infected by the KZ disease and you'll never stop craving for the latest KZ earphone


----------



## Tyler Durden

I think I've had all of the KZ earphones in my basket so far! 
Shall I stick with the ES3 and ZS5 as recommended above? 

The ZSR triples look good to me!


----------



## WalterTorino

Tyler Durden said:


> I think I've had all of the KZ earphones in my basket so far!
> Shall I stick with the ES3 and ZS5 as recommended above?
> 
> The ZSR triples look good to me!


I think you continue to spend money on headphones just because you have not found the right ones yet. Maybe better to have a look on another manufacturer? To buy more expensive ones but to stop on them and finally be happy with the sound you have? Without any "or"


----------



## Toastybob

The entire black nozzle of my left zs5 v2 came off when removing a tip. I reattached it with tape but the sound has changed. I still hear the high frequencies, but much quieter. Maybe I should block one BA in the right piece like Slater described to see if they match?
Disappointed with this issue, it's the first real build quality problem I've had with any of my KZ models.


----------



## hed-faj

Toastybob said:


> The entire black nozzle of my left zs5 v2 came off when removing a tip. I reattached it with tape but the sound has changed. I still hear the high frequencies, but much quieter. Maybe I should block one BA in the right piece like Slater described to see if they match?
> Disappointed with this issue, it's the first real build quality problem I've had with any of my KZ models.


I've had the same issue with a ZS5 nozzle which came off and I fixed it with cyanoacrylate glue. I think that now it sounds exactly like before.


----------



## IamMe90

Anyone else really disappointed in the ZS6? I find them noticeably worse-sounding than the ZS5. The treble is ridiculously hot. I appreciate the improvement in housing material, but jesus, a lot of tracks are ridiculously strident/harsh sounding out of these things. I am definitely not dealing with a phase issue or anything like that.


----------



## TheVortex

IamMe90 said:


> Anyone else really disappointed in the ZS6? I find them noticeably worse-sounding than the ZS5. The treble is ridiculously hot. I appreciate the improvement in housing material, but jesus, a lot of tracks are ridiculously strident/harsh sounding out of these things. I am definitely not dealing with a phase issue or anything like that.



I agree, they are such a dissapointment. I tend to stick with the KZ ES3 and the Urbanfun Hybrid.


----------



## RyanM

KZ really struck gold with the V1 ZS5 - it’s a hell of a deal and a tremendous tuning job. You can tell they spent a while on it. Why they decided to mess with that because people figured out that the driver placement was suspect and likely useless, is beyond me. Nevertheless, the V2 is not great, and the ZS6 is even worse. I don’t think there’s any concept of a crossover, and it certainly seems like both BA drivers are handling the same high frequency. On newer recordings, they’re simply unbearable, however they sound decent with 90’s and older recordings, in most cases. Or, stuff that predates loudness wars, or is properly engineered, etc. Anyways, V1 ZS5 and the ZS3 are the best IEM’s they’ve produced in my opinion. It’s too bad because the ZS6 is the nicest looking of the bunch. Oh well.


----------



## vladstef

RyanM said:


> KZ really struck gold with the V1 ZS5 - it’s a hell of a deal and a tremendous tuning job. You can tell they spent a while on it. Why they decided to mess with that because people figured out that the driver placement was suspect and likely useless, is beyond me. Nevertheless, the V2 is not great, and the ZS6 is even worse. I don’t think there’s any concept of a crossover, and it certainly seems like both BA drivers are handling the same high frequency. On newer recordings, they’re simply unbearable, however they sound decent with 90’s and older recordings, in most cases. Or, stuff that predates loudness wars, or is properly engineered, etc. Anyways, V1 ZS5 and the ZS3 are the best IEM’s they’ve produced in my opinion. It’s too bad because the ZS6 is the nicest looking of the bunch. Oh well.



It's ok to have 2 BA covering the same frequencies, some IEMs have 4 and even 8 of the same BAs (I think 64 Audio U18 has this). Problem is how you integrate different drivers and even bigger problem for KZ is how their treble BAs are peaky and need dampening or updated design, otherwise it will always be at least as peaky as ZS5v1 which will stop progress.


----------



## Duncan

Strange, I find the ZS6, if used at moderate rather than high volume to be really well balanced, up loud, agreed they're a treble fest, really not good.

However, at moderate volumes, I find them a really compelling VFM proposition.


----------



## nkramer

Makahl said:


> +1.
> There are cheaper Chinese BA drivers nowadays (bellsing/estron) with a similar design from Knowles which can be more interesting for KZ projects. Even for DIYers trying to learn how to tune or play with crossovers and etc... Someone made this list which can be helpful: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gFl8N3JvOi8HQrZbn8zxRMClBfxPpoh4XvQlzPyCki0/edit#gid=0
> 
> I always thought the idea of double BA at the nozzle would be more suitable for something like the TWFK's design since it has only one bore linking two BAs, thus it's easier to tune and you'll get all extension and avoid frequencies canceling each other due to possible phase problems or alignment problems might causing minor channel imbalance if you imagine how hard is keep that in high demand of production.
> ...



YES! i'd love to see a simple hybrid with DD for sub & full range balanced armature for rest of spectrum. which is pretty much totally opposite of what they're currently doing.


----------



## Viber

It's amazing for me to hear people claim that the ZS5 v1 is better and less harsh than the ZS6.  Absolutely amazing, i couldn't disagree more.


----------



## vladstef

Viber said:


> It's amazing for me to hear people claim that the ZS5 v1 is better and less harsh than the ZS6.  Absolutely amazing, i couldn't disagree more.



ZS6 is pretty much the most polarizing IEM ever, some people are in love with it some absolutely hate it and you have most people in the middle leaning towards one side. I am more than certain that no two ZS6s are the same and I could bet that treble response in particular is varying to an extreme degree depending on the batch. This is obviously just an opinion based on people's responses.


----------



## CYoung234

Viber said:


> It's amazing for me to hear people claim that the ZS5 v1 is better and less harsh than the ZS6.  Absolutely amazing, i couldn't disagree more.



Agreed. I have two pairs of each one as well as the Urbanfuns. I love the ZS6 the best of all three. The Urbanfuns are second and the ZS5v1's are third. I find that the ZS6 has better lows, more solid and controlled. The ZS5 may have a little bigger soundstage but I believe it is because they are a little more recessed than the ZS6. The Urbanfuns have very good tuning, but smaller soundstage than either of the KZs.


----------



## B9Scrambler

vladstef said:


> ZS6 is pretty much the most polarizing IEM ever, some people are in love with it some absolutely hate it and you have most people in the middle leaning towards one side. I am more than certain that no two ZS6s are the same and I could bet that treble response in particular is varying to an extreme degree depending on the batch. This is obviously just an opinion based on people's responses.



Small sample size but I've heard two ZS6's and they were the same. My ZS5s were consistent too. I highly doubt treble response is the "issue", but instead signature preference and personal tolerances.


----------



## vladstef

B9Scrambler said:


> Small sample size but I've heard two ZS6's and they were the same. My ZS5s were consistent too. I highly doubt treble response is the "issue", but instead signature preference and personal tolerances.



That could be the case and it's very scary honestly if this is the case. In reality, it's probably the mixture of the 2. QC with BAs in the nozzle is an existing issue with ZS5 at least, some units have BA bore directly touching the mesh thus reducing the opening of the BA - reported here couple of months ago. My ZS5 had polarity issues on the cable, many people had it in internal wiring. List is long, it's not illogical to conclude that it has something to do with vastly different opinions.


----------



## HungryPanda

I swear my green ZS6 sounds different from my red one and the polarity is fine on both. I'm going to really test them tomorrow as I'm too tired now


----------



## bsoplinger

IamMe90 said:


> Anyone else really disappointed in the ZS6? I find them noticeably worse-sounding than the ZS5. The treble is ridiculously hot. I appreciate the improvement in housing material, but jesus, a lot of tracks are ridiculously strident/harsh sounding out of these things. I am definitely not dealing with a phase issue or anything like that.


If you had the early version of the ZS5 then it wouldn't be much of a surprise if you find the ZS6 have a hotter high end. There's plenty of posts on the topic. @Slater posted a few times about modifications that can be made to reduce the treble. Some are non destructive and others aren't. I'd think a search of just this thread for "ZS6 mod" should be enough to find them. Perhaps you'll need to use modification instead of mod.


----------



## bsoplinger

nkramer said:


> YES! i'd love to see a simple hybrid with DD for sub & full range balanced armature for rest of spectrum. which is pretty much totally opposite of what they're currently doing.


That was my initial thought too. Why not start simple, a dynamic driver for the bass and lower midrange and a BA for the rest. But that would require a basic crossover at the least to get decent results. Look at all the $30 and under 1DD + 1BA designs out there. Nobody is trumpeting about the sound of any of them. That's not to say that some don't sound decent. Its just that what seems like a simple no brainer solution perhaps isn't.

I've purchased a number of the 1 + 1 design IEMs and I think a number sound good but nothing sounds really good let alone great. I'm increasingly being surprised by > $50 single driver solutions that sound more musical than these multi driver designs. Which seems counter intuitive to me. There's hardly any single driver home stereo speaker system. Even my beloved ribbon speakers have a 10" dynamic driver for 250 Hz and below. And most good dynamic driver speakers have 3 drivers to cover the spectrum.


----------



## LUCILLE667

Well I, for one, like my zs6 more than my zs5. I guess I just got used to it.


----------



## Francisk

bsoplinger said:


> That was my initial thought too. Why not start simple, a dynamic driver for the bass and lower midrange and a BA for the rest. But that would require a basic crossover at the least to get decent results. Look at all the $30 and under 1DD + 1BA designs out there. Nobody is trumpeting about the sound of any of them. That's not to say that some don't sound decent. Its just that what seems like a simple no brainer solution perhaps isn't.
> 
> I've purchased a number of the 1 + 1 design IEMs and I think a number sound good but nothing sounds really good let alone great. I'm increasingly being surprised by > $50 single driver solutions that sound more musical than these multi driver designs. Which seems counter intuitive to me. There's hardly any single driver home stereo speaker system. Even my beloved ribbon speakers have a 10" dynamic driver for 250 Hz and below. And most good dynamic driver speakers have 3 drivers to cover the spectrum.


That's the exact reason why I love the Dynamic Motion DM200H which utilize a single DD and BA in a coaxial configuration:  https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/dynamic-motion-dm200h.22699/reviews
The DM200H however is much more expensive than the KZ IEMs. For KZ's asking price, they're still the King of budget IEMs


----------



## ayao

Whew! Just ordered the 9.99 ZSR; time to hibernate until the next KZ model gets an introductory sale on GB (did the same with the 9.99 ZS5v1 and 5.99 ES3)


----------



## Tyler Durden

Where are the 9.99 ZSRs available from? 

GearBest price is £12.79 when I look.


----------



## ayao (Jan 21, 2018)

Tyler Durden said:


> Where are the 9.99 ZSRs available from?
> 
> GearBest price is £12.79 when I look.



GearBest had a promo (15th - 21st Jan) where the first 20 units were sold for $9.99 (each day from 09:00 UTC). They sell out in seconds (less than 7 seconds yesterday)~


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 21, 2018)

IMO, zs5 v1 have a messy design. 4 drivers in parallel, no crossover, ridiculous low impedance as result, 2 drivers kind of buried.. they distort easily when using limited current sources. but they sound pretty nice for the price; in reality, you get a good sounding 2 drivers hybrid iem, current hungry.
IMO, using crossover is needed, because you can get better quality in specialized drivers which have shorter frequency range, than full range drivers, for the same price, usually; and because you get reasonable total impedance.
so IMO, zs6 and zs5 v2 are better designed, and sounds better.. except for the excessive treble peaks. it's a pity kz didn't tune them appropriately. maybe some dampeners for the BAs would had done the job. anyway, by using a simple eq, impedance adapter, or by any of the mods explained in this thread, you get better sounding overall iem than zs5 v1.

guess we can't ask for better designed iems, better tuning, better QC, for the price they are selling. their quality-price rate is the best in their segment, imo. we'd pay more, if they'd decide to invest a bit more in tuning their BAs (more complex crossovers, dampeners...), other than easily misplaced foam pieces and irregular glued vents for the dynamic drivers (zs3, zst, es3). waiting for zsr, to check what have they done to tame the peaks of their double BA..


----------



## CoiL

Viber said:


> It's amazing for me to hear people claim that the ZS5 v1 is better and less harsh than the ZS6.  Absolutely amazing, i couldn't disagree more.


It`s amazing to hear opposite for me - and for reason - most ZS6 users USE FOAMS to tame treble. ZS5v1 is totally ok with highs even with silicone tips (I`m sensitive to highs btw). 
Ok, ppl use foams... but ppl who don`t? They probably will hear ZS6 harsh. Now add ZS5v1 requirements into mix (low output impedance, amping, wide bore tips etc.) and You get that opinion You mentioned 


B9Scrambler said:


> Small sample size but I've heard two ZS6's and they were the same. My ZS5s were consistent too. I highly doubt treble response is the "issue", but instead signature preference and personal tolerances.


+1 and add some other source gear/amping/music etc. differences.


----------



## nkramer

bsoplinger said:


> That was my initial thought too. Why not start simple, a dynamic driver for the bass and lower midrange and a BA for the rest. But that would require a basic crossover at the least to get decent results. Look at all the $30 and under 1DD + 1BA designs out there. Nobody is trumpeting about the sound of any of them. That's not to say that some don't sound decent. Its just that what seems like a simple no brainer solution perhaps isn't.
> 
> I've purchased a number of the 1 + 1 design IEMs and I think a number sound good but nothing sounds really good let alone great. I'm increasingly being surprised by > $50 single driver solutions that sound more musical than these multi driver designs. Which seems counter intuitive to me. There's hardly any single driver home stereo speaker system. Even my beloved ribbon speakers have a 10" dynamic driver for 250 Hz and below. And most good dynamic driver speakers have 3 drivers to cover the spectrum.



I know what you mean. I also have westone 1 & etymotic er6i (both are single BA). er6i's my favorite (just wish they had a bottom end like a dynamic)

There's just something about BA's that I like so much.


----------



## AKMW44

ivo001 said:


> Discontinued.


Oh well, thanks for replying


----------



## Viber (Jan 21, 2018)

CoiL said:


> It`s amazing to hear opposite for me - and for reason - most ZS6 users USE FOAMS to tame treble. ZS5v1 is totally ok with highs even with silicone tips (I`m sensitive to highs btw).
> Ok, ppl use foams... but ppl who don`t? They probably will hear ZS6 harsh. Now add ZS5v1 requirements into mix (low output impedance, amping, wide bore tips etc.) and You get that opinion You mentioned



The ZS6 is less harsh and sounds better with any source or type of tip that I've tried - that includes ZS6 with stock tips btw.

The ZS5 sounds and looks from the inside like the prototype of the ZS6.

I still think that the ZS5 are *amazing* for their price and modding flexibility though.


----------



## Dark Helmet

I find that the treble on ZS6, with the ALO Rx to be much more tame and tolerable, however they still sound a bit unnatural and step forward a bit too much on certain tracks.


----------



## ivo001

stryed said:


> As a double flange, I find the twinbaldes CP220 pretty long already. I don't think twinblades are really worth the price as the idea that it will twist inside your ear is pretty normal for a tri or bi flange with deep insertion (I will have to try them tomorrow as it's been CP100 day).
> 
> The CP100 is something that can solve a problem that I had with single flange fit. Less soundstage perhaps compared to my experience with CP220 M2. Got a nice seal but I'm wondering if sibilance isn't worse than with the KZ stocks which have a wider bore. Will go back to the twinblades tomorrow...


Have you had the chance to compare CP100 to CP220 yet? I got the CP100 myself on KZ ZS5 now and they go in very deep and I like them so far. I don't have any double/triple flange tips, so wonder if i'm missing out on something.


----------



## Toastybob

My ZSR arrived. Unfortunately, some combination of the angle, diameter, and length of the sound tube makes them uncomfortable and eventually painful if worn for more than a short time. This occurs with the small ZS3 tips and even the small KZ whirlwind tips pushed all the way down on the nozzle, which barely increase the diameter. In contrast, the ZS3 fits me perfectly.


----------



## Toastybob

hed-faj said:


> I've had the same issue with a ZS5 nozzle which came off and I fixed it with cyanoacrylate glue. I think that now it sounds exactly like before.


Just around the circle where the black nozzle attached to the silver or blue housing?
I'm guessing it wouldn't help me, since it sounds like one or both of the BAs are damaged and they are night in the end of the nozzle.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 21, 2018)

Viber said:


> The ZS6 is less harsh and sounds better with any source or type of tip that I've tried - that includes ZS6 with stock tips btw.


That`s the thing - it`s Your subjective opinion and preference with Your gear and hearing/sound perception - You can`t generalize this opinion to everybody 
I personally can`t claim that ZS5v1 is less harsh in highs due to different revisions of ZS5 and different gear/music ppl use against ZS6 but I get more impressions by users thinking ZS6 is overly sharp (and need foam tips) than with ZS5v1. With ZS5v2 it`s different story and I still think some ZS5 users mix up v2 and v1 due to bad look at nozzle BAs and not willing to remove grills to be 100% sure.
With my gear though, I can`t say ZS5v1 is anywhere near harsh! ZST colorful (the good batch) and **** 4in1 sound noticeably more harsh to me (latter being harshest)... and once again, I`m quite sensitive to treble, especially around 6.2-7.5kHz. And I also don`t think my gear is overly warm/soft sounding - I have modified it a lot and now my sources are neutral-sided with slight warm tilt (in stock they were quite warmish though).
ZSTc treble spike I got almost eliminated with Auvio red core smallest tips. **** 4in1 issue got a lot better using high-impedance cable + spiral dot tips.
With latter mentioned "mods" I think they line up as follows (harshest treble to least treble harshness): ZSTc > 4in1 > ZS5v1.
This doesn`t mean my sound preference order though, which is as follows (best to not so good):
ZS5v1 > ZSTc > 4in1. Why? Because 4in1 sounds too dry/dull and lifeless with lot of music I listen.
ZSTc has slight W-shape signature and it`s more pleasant to listen with lot music. But ZS5v1 kind of sits between them with largest immersive soundstage which I totally crave for ;P

But this is JMSHO , others may vary


----------



## charlescc2

What upgrade cables have you guys tried with the ZSRs and how is it working out fit wise?  Wondering how it fits with the plastic ends of the silver braided cable (I have them in my ZS6s as I've been afraid to mess with cutting) and how the straight plugs from other upgrade cables work out (I see the cable it comes with has angled plugs).


----------



## Makahl

CoiL said:


> With my gear though, I can`t say ZS5v1 is anywhere near harsh!* ZST colorful (the good batch)* and **** 4in1 sound noticeably more harsh to me (latter being harshest)... and once again,



Wait... I'm not aware of this. Is there some bad batch of ZST? If yes, what's the change coming from a "good batch"?

 I've read about ZS3 the last batch from GearBest has an impressive number of drivers failing but never heard anything about ZST.


----------



## Toastybob

charlescc2 said:


> What upgrade cables have you guys tried with the ZSRs and how is it working out fit wise?  Wondering how it fits with the plastic ends of the silver braided cable (I have them in my ZS6s as I've been afraid to mess with cutting) and how the straight plugs from other upgrade cables work out (I see the cable it comes with has angled plugs).


The straight silver braided upgrade cable for the ZST fits the ZSR fine. There is some unfilled space between it and the ZSR housing.


----------



## CoiL

I think ZSTc early batch had some issues with consistency but I might remember wrong and that was issue rather with "carbon" ZST early vs. later batch.
Somehow I remember ZSTc early batch having also sound difference from later ones but I might be wrong.


----------



## stryed (Jan 21, 2018)

ivo001 said:


> Have you had the chance to compare CP100 to CP220 yet? I got the CP100 myself on KZ ZS5 now and they go in very deep and I like them so far. I don't have any double/triple flange tips, so wonder if i'm missing out on something.



I find the sound too muffled on both IT01 & KZ ZS5 with the CP220 M2. Nozzle is just too narrow. They're smaller than the KZ stock. Better off with anything larger!  I like the KZ turbos (those blue ones)


----------



## skajohyros

CoiL said:


> That`s the thing - it`s Your subjective opinion and preference with Your gear and hearing/sound perception - You can`t generalize this opinion to everybody
> I personally can`t claim that ZS5v1 is less harsh in highs due to different revisions of ZS5 and different gear/music ppl use against ZS6 but I get more impressions by users thinking ZS6 is overly sharp (and need foam tips) than with ZS5v1. With ZS5v2 it`s different story and I still think some ZS5 users mix up v2 and v1 due to bad look at nozzle BAs and not willing to remove grills to be 100% sure.
> With my gear though, I can`t say ZS5v1 is anywhere near harsh! ZST colorful (the good batch) and **** 4in1 sound noticeably more harsh to me (latter being harshest)... and once again, I`m quite sensitive to treble, especially around 6.2-7.5kHz. And I also don`t think my gear is overly warm/soft sounding - I have modified it a lot and now my sources are neutral-sided with slight warm tilt (in stock they were quite warmish though).
> ZSTc treble spike I got almost eliminated with Auvio red core smallest tips. **** 4in1 issue got a lot better using high-impedance cable + spiral dot tips.
> ...



Yeah that soundstage. Almost like open back headphones. Love it. Makes me forgive it's imperfections. Just can't forgive the zs6.


----------



## CYoung234

stryed said:


> I find the sound too muffled on both IT01 & KZ ZS5 with the CP220 M2. Nozzle is just too narrow. They're smaller than the KZ stock. Better off with anything larger!  I like the KZ turbos (those blue ones)



Does anyone have a source for the blue KZ turbo tips?


----------



## AKMW44

Hi all, will kz be making more green KZZS6.


----------



## Avatar86

That'd be awesome


----------



## ivo001

CYoung234 said:


> Does anyone have a source for the blue KZ turbo tips?


I've ordered these today:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...&terminal_id=ca265a0eed6f42ff9409333d0070a86e

If that is the tips you mean.


----------



## AKMW44

These z6 are unbelievable, I've had them in 24/7. Sounds moving inside my head,.... Just blocked the bass hole up mod and bloody nora its good. Ive experienced burn in, I was sat listening to kravitz and the sound changed for the better in a big way.


----------



## HungryPanda

I agree the ZS6 are terrific earphones for the price, find the right tips and you are set. They will not be making any more greens I believe


----------



## govie

I am sceptic about the burn-in-effect.


----------



## Saoshyant

govie said:


> I am sceptic about the burn-in-effect.



Let's not start up this argument again.


----------



## groucho69

Saoshyant said:


> Let's not start up this argument again.


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Jan 21, 2018)

RyanM said:


> Anyways, the ZS3 are the best IEM’s they’ve produced in my opinion.


The key word is "in my opinion".
As for me ZS3 has neither highs nor lows.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

AKMW44 said:


> These z6 are unbelievable.... Just blocked the bass hole up mod and bloody nora its good.


What did you block the hole with?


----------



## bsoplinger

CYoung234 said:


> Does anyone have a source for the blue KZ turbo tips?


The link some other poster provided is as good as any other. I'll suggest you order more than just the single set of 2 pairs of the 3 different sizes though. The picture @Slater posted shows exactly where they tear, easily. So if you end up liking and using them they will end up tearing. But at less than a dollar a set its not cost prohibitive to have a few sets on hand. Unlike the spinfits which are expensive or the JVC which are difficult to get in the USA.


----------



## Slater (Jan 21, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> The link some other poster provided is as good as any other. I'll suggest you order more than just the single set of 2 pairs of the 3 different sizes though. The picture @Slater posted shows exactly where they tear, easily. So if you end up liking and using them they will end up tearing. But at less than a dollar a set its not cost prohibitive to have a few sets on hand. Unlike the spinfits which are expensive or the JVC which are difficult to get in the USA.



Yup, good advice.

Buy a number of sets, because they tear so easily. In almost every case, the tears occur when installing or removing them from an IEM. So what's disappointing about the situation, is that you can destroy a pair just tip rolling (and not even ending up liking them on an IEM). So within 30 seconds you decide you don't like them take them off and poof - they're torn and junk. 30 seconds of use out of a product LOL.

So when I tip roll them, I really see them as a sacrificial test - in other words, I just expect them to get torn. That way, if they end up not tearing I'm pleasantly surprised.

Luckily as you mentioned, they are very minimal cost per pair though.


----------



## durwood (Jan 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> I have FR graphs of the ZS5v1 vs ZS6, which should be very very similar. Will those work for you?



Sure, I guess I never thought about the ZS5v2 being that close to the ZS6 but perhaps it is? Then the ones from www.thephonograph.net should suffice right?
ZS5v1
http://www.thephonograph.net/headphones-frequency-response/kz/kz-zs5-frequency-response-curve/

ZS6 ~ ZS5v2???
http://www.thephonograph.net/headphones-frequency-response/kz/kz-zs6-frequency-response-curve/

Also, looking at the ZSR graph from thephonograph.net it totally has the shape of the ZS6 but with the a 6db notch right around 3500 to lessen the upper midrange/lower treble.



> That would be an awful lot of work:
> 
> 1. Without a way to dissolve the glue, you will end up having a lot of trouble trying to do this after-the-fact.
> 2. How and where will you run the wires? They are all sealed in with glue. Sure, you can remove the BA from the nozzle and physically move it, but routing the wiring will be problematic.
> ...



Indeed after I typed it, I thought way too much effort. I must have missed this though, the ZS5v2 has a crossover? I thought I read enough of this thread but I must have missed this tidbit. We know for sure the ZS5v2 had a crossover in it?[/quote][/QUOTE]


----------



## hydroid

stryed said:


> I find the sound too muffled on both IT01 & KZ ZS5 with the CP220 M2. Nozzle is just too narrow. They're smaller than the KZ stock. Better off with anything larger!  I like the KZ turbos (those blue ones)



IT01 is tip dependent and yeah I agree that is sounds muffled with narrow bore tips.. Wide bore tips brings out the best in it01..using the stock medium wide bore silicon tips and it sounded great..


----------



## Slater (Jan 22, 2018)

durwood said:


> Sure, I guess I never thought about the ZS5v2 being that close to the ZS6 but perhaps it is? Then the ones from www.thephonograph.net should suffice right?
> 
> Also, looking at the ZSR graph from thephonograph.net it totally has the shape of the ZS6 but with the a 6db notch right around 3500 to lessen the upper midrange/lower treble.
> 
> Indeed after I typed it, I thought way too much effort. I must have missed this though, the ZS5v2 has a crossover? I thought I read enough of this thread but I must have missed this tidbit. We know for sure the ZS5v2 had a crossover in it?



These are the ones I have of the ZS5 vs ZS6 (click for larger view):





As far as the ZS5 v2 having a crossover, it does indeed.

On the ZS6, the crossover network is surrounding the 6mm midrange driver, as seen in this ZS6 photo just to the right of where this arrow is pointing:



It's harder see on the ZS5 v2, because both the ZS5 v1 and ZS5 v2 have masking tape covering that whole section (ie to seal off the rear vent of the midrange driver), as seen here:



Well, here is a ZS5v2 with the masking tape removed. You can see the same crossover network surrounding the 6mm midrange driver (ie at the 6 o'clock position of the photo):


----------



## barocka (Jan 22, 2018)

Hi guys.

I am among you for loving ZS v1 sound.
Do you think the IT01 sound is better than the ZS5 v1? I do not like the sounds of Magaosi K3 HD and ZS6.

I am in love with ZS5 v1;
because

the instrument sounds are real and crisp.
the stage is wide and starts closely,
detail presentation is high,
bass sounds are enough.
Instrument separation is successful,
vocals are closely,
convertible cable
isolation is successful.
compatible with the my ZTE AXON 7
David Chesky - Transcendental Tripping / listening with the ZS5 is a complete feast for the ear.

Do you think I will love sound of IT01 ???


----------



## CoiL (Jan 22, 2018)

Slater said:


>


Here You go Viber, ZS6 has much more noticeable boost in highs  Maybe You just aren`t so sensitive to those frequencies? ZS6 starts climbing from ~7kHz, which for me personally is already in the "hot area" of treble.



Osman ÖZTÜRK said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I am among you for loving ZS v1 sound.
> Do you think the IT01 sound is better than the ZS5 v1? I do not like the sounds of Magaosi K3 HD and ZS6.
> ...



I agree with You @ ZS5v1. I also like it a lot. Btw, I`m planning IT01 as my next IEM but I`m still "collecting" money for it. When I get it, will surely share impressions.


----------



## barocka

here is my list; with the ZS5 feast for the ear.


----------



## oyobass

Osman ÖZTÜRK said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I am among you for loving ZS v1 sound.
> Do you think the IT01 sound is better than the ZS5 v1? I do not like the sounds of Magaosi K3 HD and ZS6.
> ...


I just got the Axon 7 Mini, with a similar DAC and amp. With it, my ZS5 v1 has come alive for portable use. Large differences in the sound of the v1 over my other phones.
As has been said many times, the v1 is very source dependent.


----------



## WalterTorino

nadezhda 6004 said:


> What did you block the hole with?


+1
I tried an electrical tape but there was no effect of it. I like how bass sounds with my foam tips but if there's any option to block bass hole to get mooore bass - i'll do this for sure!


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 22, 2018)

oyobass said:


> I just got the Axon 7 Mini, with a similar DAC and amp. With it, my ZS5 v1 has come alive for portable use. Large differences in the sound of the v1 over my other phones.
> As has been said many times, the v1 is very source dependent.


I have Axon 7 mini too and there's no DAC. I thought that the minis DAC exactly the same like in a flagship version too. But there's only *Advanced Audio DSP CODEC, AK4962.*


----------



## Slater (Jan 22, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> +1
> I tried an electrical tape but there was no effect of it. I like how bass sounds with my foam tips but if there's any option to block bass hole to get mooore bass - i'll do this for sure!



It's about a +5dB max sub-bass increase.

Green line is with hole blocked, yellow is stock (click for larger):


----------



## Slater

.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> Green line is with hole blocked, yellow is stock (click for larger):


Yeah, thanks once again! But as i said before blocking this hole with tape didn't give any effect. What should i use except of tape to block this hole to get such difference?
Wait... I guess it works. Made more accurate and it began to work. Tnx!


----------



## Slater

WalterTorino said:


> Yeah, thanks once again! But as i said before blocking this hole with tape didn't give any effect. What should i use except of tape to block this hole to get such difference?
> Wait... I guess it works. Made more accurate and it began to work. Tnx!



I know you got it to work, but I wouldn't use electrical tape. It does not stick well, and the adhesive gets gooey. I believe this is why it didn't work well for you the 1st time.

You can use many other tapes - foil tape, blue or green painter's tape, scotch tape (ie cello tape), masking tape, vinyl graphics film, etc.


----------



## WalterTorino

Slater said:


> I know you got it to work, but I wouldn't use electrical tape. It does not stick well, and the adhesive gets gooey. I believe this is why it didn't work well for you the 1st time.
> 
> You can use many other tapes - foil tape, blue or green painter's tape, scotch tape (ie cello tape), masking tape, vinyl graphics film, etc.


Scotch did it well, yes


----------



## themindfreak (Jan 23, 2018)

Got my KZ ZSR today from Gearbest. Im absolutely in love with these hell yeah!!  VERY VERY bright treble and super clear mids earphones maybe because of the double ba in the nozzle and the bass is a touch slightly lighter than the ZS5 V1 from memory. Imo its a sidegrade to ZS5 V1, its that good at least to me. But i think people MIGHT find the ZSR more treble piercing than ZS5 V1, just my guess. And yea ZSR soundstage is slightly smaller than ZS5 unfortunately, tho the strong imaging ability makes up for that.

Edit 3: Just noticed vocals have alot of sibilance, definitely not for the treble sensitive in any way. There is a slight colouration to the mids and treble which makes it sound more "fun". Overall sound signature is slight V-shaped, i find the mids not having enough energy on certain tracks. Anyways the treble on these is very addicting, very bright and fun and extremely crispy with a lot of 'air'. Some iems tend to roll off after the 10-11khz region which costs a loss of air. ZSR's strength lies in its treble crisp and air. Its mids and bass are 'ok' to good standards.


----------



## WalterTorino

themindfreak said:


> Got my KZ ZSR today from Gearbest. Im absolutely in love with these hell yeah!!  VERY VERY bright treble and super clear mids earphones maybe because of the double ba in the nozzle and the bass is a touch slightly lighter than the ZS5 V1 from memory. Imo its a sidegrade to ZS5 V1, its that good at least to me. But i think people MIGHT find the ZSR more treble piercing than ZS5 V1, just my guess. And yea ZSR soundstage is slightly smaller than ZS5 unfortunately, tho the strong imaging ability makes up for that.
> 
> Edit: Just noticed vocals have alot of sibilance, definitely not for the treble sensitive in any way


What about bass? And what is your music source?


----------



## Ukedone (Jan 22, 2018)

IamMe90 said:


> Anyone else really disappointed in the ZS6? I find them noticeably worse-sounding than the ZS5. The treble is ridiculously hot. I appreciate the improvement in housing material, but jesus, a lot of tracks are ridiculously strident/harsh sounding out of these things. I am definitely not dealing with a phase issue or anything like that.



I totally disagree. I got the KZ fever 1 year ago with the ZST, and since then I got the ZS5V1, the ZS3, the ES3, ZS6 (Black) and another ZS6 (Red - one month after the first). I must say that, in my opinion, the ZS6 is by far the better of the bunch. I like all when listened in isolation, but if I switch to the ZS6 I notice a large improvement in most areas when compared to the others (and I returned to the original large size tips after using foams and wide bore shallow tips for a while). Meanwhile I sold the ZS3 and the ES3 to colleagues (I have easy access to them if I need them for any comparison means).
To my ears the ZS6 looses in isolation to the ZS3 (by far) and in comfort to the ZST (not by much), but it's bette in probably every other area. The ZS5V1 are rather good with comply style foams, but (as some others have mentioned) sound congested with some tracks while sounding amazing with others, and vocals are kind of lifeless. The ES3 brings the life back to vocals but looses to the ZS5v1 in other areas. The ZS6 is at least as good in vocals as the ES3 and better in every other areas (and sounds coherent with most of the tracks when listening randomly unlike the ZS5v1). I really enjoy ZS6 bass, openness, sparkle, and timing. Yes, they might be a bit harsh in some higher treble areas, but either I am not sensitive to those frequencies, or my brain got used to it.
On a funny note, I just got the Tin Audio T2, which are meant to have lesser harsh treble, and yet I find them brighter than the ZS6, and even unbearably brighter with the included silicon tips (they are ok with the included foams, but still brighter than the ZS6 ).

In what concerns the so called ZS5V1 sensitivity to the source (which has been raised by many to explain the differences in the perceived sound), I certainly agree with it, but on a funny way: they sound rather good from an iPad Pro; good from an LGV10 and from the Oneplus 5T, and bad from a Note3 and (surprisingly) from the iFi iDSD Nano.

These are my findings, and might not apply to everyone, but for me they are obviously good 
By the way, this is my first post here, but I have been lurking around for a long while.


----------



## riffrafff

Ukedone said:


> I totally disagree. I got the KZ fever 1 year ago with the ZST, and since then I got the ZS5V1, the ZS3, the ES3, ZS6 (Black) and another ZS6 (Red - one month after the first). I must say that, in my opinion, the ZS6 is by far the better of the bunch. I like all when listened in isolation, but if I switch to the ZS6 I notice a large improvement in most areas when compared to the others (and I returned to the original large size tips after using foams and wide bore shallow tips for a while). Meanwhile I sold the ZS3 and the ES3 to colleagues (I have easy access to them if I need them for any comparison means).
> To my ears the ZS6 looses in isolation to the ZS3 (by far) and in comfort to the ZST (not by much), but it's bette in probably every other area. The ZS5V1 are rather good with comply style foams, but (as some others have mentioned) sound congested with some tracks while sounding amazing with others, and vocals are kind of lifeless. The ES3 brings the life back to vocals but looses to the ZS5v1 in other areas. The ZS6 is at least as good in vocals as the ES3 and better in every other areas (and sounds coherent with most of the tracks when listening randomly unlike the ZS5v1). I really enjoy ZS6 bass, openness, sparkle, and timing. Yes, they might be a bit harsh in some higher treble areas, but either I am not sensitive to those frequencies, or my brain got used to it.
> On a funny note, I just got the Tin Audio T2, which are meant to have lesser harsh treble, and yet I find them brighter than the ZS6, and even unbearably brighter with the included silicon tips (they are ok with the included foams, but still brighter than the ZS6 ).
> 
> ...



Welcome to Head-Fi (more officially, now that you're posting).   How's the weather there at Coprates Chasma?


----------



## oyobass (Jan 22, 2018)

[QUOTE="WalterTorino, post: 13991587, member: 489
818[/ATTACH]
I have Axon 7 mini too and there's no DAC. I thought that the minis DAC exactly the same like in a flagship version too. But there's only Advanced Audio DSP CODEC, AK4962.[/QUOTE]

The AK4962 is a chip with the 2 DACs, the ADC and the amp combined in one part. It is a physical codec that does 32 bit/192 kHz max decoding. See discussion here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-smartphone-for-audiophile.662095/page-448#post-13248446 , and full specs here:
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20160419AK4962_001/
It is a very good sounding DAC with all of my headphones, and makes the ZS5 v1 a real contender, IMHO, of course.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 22, 2018)

oyobass said:


> The AK4962 is a chip with the 2 DACs, the ADC and the amp combined in one part. It is a physical codec that does 32 bit/192 kHz max decoding. See discussion here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-smartphone-for-audiophile.662095/page-448#post-13248446 , and full specs here:
> https://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20160419AK4962_001/
> It is a very good sounding DAC with all of my headphones, and makes the ZS5 v1 a real contender, IMHO, of course.


I don't argue about what it is but for me it is not a DAC as it supposed to be. Dunno...
As for me Axon 7 mini sounds kinda boring (with zs6 at least). (Can't say about flagship Axon 7 - didn't use it.) Highscreen Boost III SE Pro is much better IMHO (I strongly recommend you to try it, if you can get it. Finally, we can say that we have made a good music smartphone in Russia  ).
Btw, did you boost a max volume on yours Axon? If yes - how you did it? It's too quiet...
I did it before with an engeneer menu but i can't find how to do it in Axon.


----------



## oyobass

WalterTorino said:


> I don't argue about what it is but for me it is not a DAC as it supposed to be. Dunno...
> As for me Axon 7 mini sounds kinda boring (with zs6 at least). (Can't say about flagship Axon 7 - didn't use it.) Highscreen Boost III Pro SE is much better IMHO.
> Btw, did you boost a max volume on yours Axon? If yes - how you did it? It's too quiet...
> I did it before with an engeneer menu but i can't find how to do it in Axon.



Just proof that we all hear things differently, lol. To me, there is no need to boost the volume, since I am all about preserving my hearing. I play in and mix loud bands, so the last thing I want to do is blow out my hearing for recreation. I am after a clean, full sound at lower volumes, which tends to color my opinion vs. folks who like loud clean sound.

I'm pretty sure you already know about the "settings\ sounds and vibration\ headset hifi\ super" option under settings that forces use of the DAC vs. the stock (boring) Qualcomm audio. That option also boosts volume and makes the phone a beast for my purposes. If not, give it a try...


----------



## nadezhda 6004

themindfreak said:


> Imo its a sidegrade to ZS5 V1


What do you and other people mean by "sidegrade"? Could anybody explain in details?


----------



## HungryPanda

sidegrade means no improvement in quality just something different


----------



## WalterTorino

oyobass said:


> Just proof that we all hear things differently, lol. To me, there is no need to boost the volume, since I am all about preserving my hearing. I play in and mix loud bands, so the last thing I want to do is blow out my hearing for recreation. I am after a clean, full sound at lower volumes, which tends to color my opinion vs. folks who like loud clean sound.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you already know about the "settings\ sounds and vibration\ headset hifi\ super" option under settings that forces use of the DAC vs. the stock (boring) Qualcomm audio. That option also boosts volume and makes the phone a beast for my purposes. If not, give it a try...


Yeah, hifi is "on" 
I understand you but for me sound is a little bit queit


----------



## goodvibes

Just wanted to say that their premium High Purity Oxygen Free Copper Headset Silver Plated cable is outstanding for the price. The gray colored one. I think it's a step up from stock cables on most makes.


----------



## themindfreak

WalterTorino said:


> What about bass? And what is your music source?


Im using a Aigo Z6 Pro DAP that has a mid centric sound with slight treble roll off sound signature that prevents fatigue. I have an Lg V20 as well but I'll test it out tmr or smth. Bass is tight but not the tightest I've known and definitely deep, definitely not lacking in any way. Its either you feel there's too much bass or it might be just right for you.(Its very very close to ZS5 V1 style of bass)


----------



## WalterTorino

themindfreak said:


> Im using a Aigo Z6 Pro DAP that has a mid centric sound with slight treble roll off sound signature that prevents fatigue. I have an Lg V20 as well but I'll test it out tmr or smth. Bass is tight but not the tightest I've known and definitely deep, definitely not lacking in any way. Its either you feel there's too much bass or it might be just right for you.(Its very very close to ZS5 V1 style of bass)


Thank you  I guess I'll buy zsr


----------



## Wiljen

I think the Zsr has a bit better bass extension at the expense of a little control when compared to the Zs5v1 or Zs6.  To me, the bass is very much the same profile as the Zs3.


----------



## Tyler Durden

goodvibes said:


> Just wanted to say that their premium High Purity Oxygen Free Copper Headset Silver Plated cable is outstanding for the price. The gray colored one. I think it's a step up from stock cables on most makes.



Have you got a link?


----------



## C2thew

I wasn't able to get on the KZR deal so i'm going to wait until my KZ ZS6's arrive before I decide to pull the trigger on the ZSR's.  Question for you ZSR owners that have also owned the ZS3's in the past:  How does the ZSR not fit/isolate as well as the ZS3?  From what I see, the design looks identical to the ZS3... so why are there reports that it doesn't isolate as well as the ZS3?  

I'm also wondering why people are saying that the ZSR's are a sidegrade from the ZS5's or the ZS6's.  I would think that the comfort alone would be significant enough vs the loss of one driver.


----------



## Francisk

Wiljen said:


> I think the Zsr has a bit better bass extension at the expense of a little control when compared to the Zs5v1 or Zs6.  To me, the bass is very much the same profile as the Zs3.


Thanks for sharing your experience...I'll skip the ZSR and wait for the next upgrade from KZ.


----------



## IamMe90

Ukedone said:


> I totally disagree. I got the KZ fever 1 year ago with the ZST, and since then I got the ZS5V1, the ZS3, the ES3, ZS6 (Black) and another ZS6 (Red - one month after the first). I must say that, in my opinion, the ZS6 is by far the better of the bunch. I like all when listened in isolation, but if I switch to the ZS6 I notice a large improvement in most areas when compared to the others (and I returned to the original large size tips after using foams and wide bore shallow tips for a while). Meanwhile I sold the ZS3 and the ES3 to colleagues (I have easy access to them if I need them for any comparison means).
> To my ears the ZS6 looses in isolation to the ZS3 (by far) and in comfort to the ZST (not by much), but it's bette in probably every other area. The ZS5V1 are rather good with comply style foams, but (as some others have mentioned) sound congested with some tracks while sounding amazing with others, and vocals are kind of lifeless. The ES3 brings the life back to vocals but looses to the ZS5v1 in other areas. The ZS6 is at least as good in vocals as the ES3 and better in every other areas (and sounds coherent with most of the tracks when listening randomly unlike the ZS5v1). I really enjoy ZS6 bass, openness, sparkle, and timing. Yes, they might be a bit harsh in some higher treble areas, but either I am not sensitive to those frequencies, or my brain got used to it.
> On a funny note, I just got the Tin Audio T2, which are meant to have lesser harsh treble, and yet I find them brighter than the ZS6, and even unbearably brighter with the included silicon tips (they are ok with the included foams, but still brighter than the ZS6 ).
> 
> ...



Fair enough - IEM quality is all a lot more subjective than I think a lot of people want to admit. 

For what it's worth, I tried out some foam comply tips that came with another IEM, and to me the sound improved immensely on the ZS6. Not sure why I didn't think of trying that obvious fix a lot sooner, but there ya go.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 22, 2018)

Tyler Durden said:


> Have you got a link?


Search "KZ Official Store" on Ali. There are two kinds of upgrade cable. I have dark one. I like it.

http://s.aliexpress.com/ZFjuiyUB?
http://s.aliexpress.com/nyymiquy?
http://s.aliexpress.com/QRBzuUvi?
http://s.aliexpress.com/jEv2mYb2?


----------



## Toastybob

C2thew said:


> I wasn't able to get on the KZR deal so i'm going to wait until my KZ ZS6's arrive before I decide to pull the trigger on the ZSR's.  Question for you ZSR owners that have also owned the ZS3's in the past:  How does the ZSR not fit/isolate as well as the ZS3?  From what I see, the design looks identical to the ZS3... so why are there reports that it doesn't isolate as well as the ZS3?
> 
> I'm also wondering why people are saying that the ZSR's are a sidegrade from the ZS5's or the ZS6's.  I would think that the comfort alone would be significant enough vs the loss of one driver.



Isolation is higher than the ZS6, but it definitely isn't as high as the ZS3. This is probably due to the vents.
For me, comfort is the worst of any KZ model I have, but I don't expect that to be the case for everyone. The larger, longer ZSR nozzle causes pain after a short time even with the smallest tips. The ZS3 fit me perfectly and I can wear them for hours with no issues. I always wear small tips, so if you have larger or less angled ear canals I'm guessing you won't have this issue. Nobody else with the ZSR has posted about this, anyway.


----------



## C2thew

Toastybob said:


> Isolation is higher than the ZS6, but it definitely isn't as high as the ZS3. This is probably due to the vents.
> For me, comfort is the worst of any KZ model I have, but I don't expect that to be the case for everyone. The larger, longer ZSR nozzle causes pain after a short time even with the smallest tips. The ZS3 fit me perfectly and I can wear them for hours with no issues. I always wear small tips, so if you have larger or less angled ear canals I'm guessing you won't have this issue. Nobody else with the ZSR has posted about this, anyway.



That was exactly what I wanted to hear.  Thanks for the feedback.  I wonder if the fit doesn't work for you that maybe you can shorten the tube with rubbing the nozzle that goes into your ear canal with some sandpaper on a flat surface.  I was honestly hoping that the ZSR would be a ZS3 but with 2 BA drivers.  I absolutely love the fit/comfort of the ZS3's


----------



## CoiL

ZS3 shape is not same as ZSR btw...


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> ZS3 shape is not same as ZSR btw...



Yeah, not sure why people keep saying this. They are kinda similar I guess. I think they're closer to the ZST housing, but with the addition of an intertragic notch.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> That was exactly what I wanted to hear.  Thanks for the feedback.  I wonder if the fit doesn't work for you that maybe you can shorten the tube with rubbing the nozzle that goes into your ear canal with some sandpaper on a flat surface.  I was honestly hoping that the ZSR would be a ZS3 but with 2 BA drivers.  I absolutely love the fit/comfort of the ZS3's



BA drivers are right there in the nozzle, so shortening the nozzle isn't an option. It would be better to try different tips to see if the fit improves - double or triple flange, foam balls, foam wedges, etc


----------



## C2thew

at 3:36 there is a comparison between the ZS3 and the ZSR and they look identical in the video, but it's hard to tell as the reviewer keeps moving them so that there is no obvious difference between the two.  That's where the assumption took place.


----------



## Makahl

C2thew said:


> at 3:36 there is a comparison between the ZS3 and the ZSR and they look identical in the video, but it's hard to tell as the reviewer keeps moving them so that there is no obvious difference between the two.  That's where the assumption took place.




Those pictures might help:



Spoiler




















It looks like ZS3 and ZST's housing had a baby...


----------



## goodvibes

WalterTorino said:


> Search "KZ Official Store" on Ali. There are two kinds of upgrade cable. I have dark one. I like it.
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZFjuiyUB?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/nyymiquy?
> ...


Also tried them both and agree.


----------



## eteina

hydroid said:


> More in-depth review of the KZ ZSR, check this out.. http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-review/



@hydroid thanks!!! i was looking for a full review of the KZ ZSR


----------



## bsoplinger

WalterTorino said:


> Search "KZ Official Store" on Ali. There are two kinds of upgrade cable. I have dark one. I like it.
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZFjuiyUB?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/nyymiquy?
> ...


I'll just chime in with the suggestion that if you're going to spend $8 for a KZ upgrade cable that you instead get the newer design braided style. I really prefer it to the other 2 older styles that KZ has. They even make an identical version with MMCX connectors instead of the standard KZ dual pins which I think is about the best deal for an inexpensive MMCX cable. But it can be a matter of personal preference. To me its all about how the cable lies, the materials used for the case, how are the microphonics, how it looks, type of jack and connectors, even shape, for example flat cables, etc because I'm in the a cable is a cable camp when it comes to cables making a sonic difference.


----------



## LordZero

bsoplinger said:


> I'll just chime in with the suggestion that if you're going to spend $8 for a KZ upgrade cable that you instead get the newer design braided style. I really prefer it to the other 2 older styles that KZ has. They even make an identical version with MMCX connectors instead of the standard KZ dual pins which I think is about the best deal for an inexpensive MMCX cable. But it can be a matter of personal preference. To me its all about how the cable lies, the materials used for the case, how are the microphonics, how it looks, type of jack and connectors, even shape, for example flat cables, etc because I'm in the a cable is a cable camp when it comes to cables making a sonic difference.



 This one?
http://s.aliexpress.com/aQZfqEjY?


----------



## CYoung234

LordZero said:


> This one?
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aQZfqEjY?



I have that one, but I have this one as well, and prefer it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...32833176861.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.OCMnoq


----------



## themindfreak

C2thew said:


> I wasn't able to get on the KZR deal so i'm going to wait until my KZ ZS6's arrive before I decide to pull the trigger on the ZSR's.  Question for you ZSR owners that have also owned the ZS3's in the past:  How does the ZSR not fit/isolate as well as the ZS3?  From what I see, the design looks identical to the ZS3... so why are there reports that it doesn't isolate as well as the ZS3?
> 
> I'm also wondering why people are saying that the ZSR's are a sidegrade from the ZS5's or the ZS6's.  I would think that the comfort alone would be significant enough vs the loss of one driver.


The funny thing is, the design of the ZSR is such that the nozzle in pointing downwards when putting in my ears. Its definitely not the exact same shell as ZS3. I feel ZS3 is more comfortable. Isolation wise i cant comment because i dont have my ZS3 anymore


----------



## Strat Rider

CYoung234 said:


> I have that one, but I have this one as well, and prefer it.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...32833176861.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.OCMnoq


I also have tried both cables, and definitely prefer this one.


----------



## hydroid (Jan 22, 2018)

eteina said:


> @hydroid thanks!!! i was looking for a full review of the KZ ZSR



Welcome .,.Cheers.. Btw peeps, here's Techmanz initial ZSR showdown against several IEMS,,


----------



## paulindss

hydroid said:


> Welcome .,.Cheers.. Btw peeps, here's Techmanz initial ZSR showdown against several IEMS,,




The guy compare the sound of a modded iem with a original iem :facepalm:


----------



## DeltaRay

Coming back to the ZS5v1 after a series of increasingly expensive purchases (rip wallet), its really a pity that they moved on to the v2... 
Someone should make a petition to revert it back to v1.
Running m2m3 stack to a 175 ohm adapter to the zs5s.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jan 23, 2018)

DeltaRay said:


> Coming back to the ZS5v1 after a series of increasingly expensive purchases (rip wallet), its really a pity that they moved on to the v2...
> Someone should make a petition to *revert it back to v1.*
> Running m2m3 stack to a 175 ohm adapter to the zs5s.



But if they did that Soulsik and a bunch of other chumps would have jumped on the KZ hate-train and once again claimed fake drivers, KZ kills puppies etc. Still pissed his trash argument gained traction and ended up killing a great earphone.


----------



## goodvibes (Jan 23, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I'll just chime in with the suggestion that if you're going to spend $8 for a KZ upgrade cable that you instead get the newer design braided style. I really prefer it to the other 2 older styles that KZ has. They even make an identical version with MMCX connectors instead of the standard KZ dual pins which I think is about the best deal for an inexpensive MMCX cable. But it can be a matter of personal preference. To me its all about how the cable lies, the materials used for the case, how are the microphonics, how it looks, type of jack and connectors, even shape, for example flat cables, etc because I'm in the a cable is a cable camp when it comes to cables making a sonic difference.


Many believe this until they've had top kit and source material. I have no real opinion on the IEMs as they are cheap enough that it doesn't matter as long as you like them. I don't care about driver count or for their copycat design philosophy. I value quality over quantity and I'm sure the quality is plenty good enough for the price. The cable mentioned performs well above its price point but it does tangle easily and you may need to pinch the pins to expand them for other makes. (75 vs 78 diameter)


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 23, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> But if they did that Soulsik and a bunch of other chumps would have jumped on the KZ hate-train and once again claiming fake drivers, KZ kills puppies etc. Still pissed his trash argument gained traction and ended up killing a great earphone.



The truth is that KZ should reintroduce the ZS5 as a ZS7 by killing the ZS5ii, replace the plastic housing with aluminum housing but forego the vents found in the ZS6 faceplates. It looks like the ZS6 DD cradle still has the cavity for the BA to be set as it was in the ZS5(i). Knowledge Zenith can do it. If the community is vocal enough about it, perhaps they will listen. Maybe it's best to start a ZS5 (i) revival thread, just 'til it gets released. 

Oh, and KZ, if you're reading this, the original blue and a soft powdered gold would be perfect.

The ED9 has been a long term success for KZ. I expect a ZS7(?) would be equally important to the company if they release it. 

Everybody that wants this should speak up. I'd bet that this community is the target audience and as such has had quite an impact on KZ's notoriety, at least in the west.


----------



## Wiljen

hydroid said:


> Welcome .,.Cheers.. Btw peeps, here's Techmanz initial ZSR showdown against several IEMS,,




The reviewer compares a modded earphone to a factory earphone and refers to all KZ eartips as trash - me thinks he needs to do a bit more homework before speaking out of turn any further.  I am hoping to get back to listening to my Zsr and finish up a review here shortly (been postponed due to flu and everything sounding like it was coming from the bottom of a pit, even my HD700s sound bad so you know it is me and not them).  

Based on my initial impressions, I'd say his personal bias is swaying him toward the warmer/darker combinations and away from anything even slightly bright.   The Zsr has big bass and a bright treble - not as bright as Zs6 and not necessarily any brighter than Zst in my testing.  It does have a slightly different spike as the Zst seems to be a bit further into the upper treble and the Zsr spike seems to be in the 7-8Khz range where it is very evident.   My guess is his take was that the 7-8Khz spike is making the Zsr overly bright and somewhat sibilant while the 9kHz spike in the Zst is far enough up to be largely ignorable.   It would be hard to argue that both the Zsr and Zst do not have more treble energy than they need.


----------



## Slater (Jan 23, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The truth is that KZ should reintroduce the ZS5 as a ZS7 by killing the ZS5ii, replace the plastic housing with aluminum housing but forego the vents found in the ZS6 faceplates. It looks like the ZS6 DD cradle still has the cavity for the BA to be set as it was in the ZS5(i). Knowledge Zenith can do it. If the community is vocal enough about it, perhaps they will listen. Maybe it's best to start a ZS5 (i) revival thread, just 'til it gets released.
> 
> Oh, and KZ, if you're reading this, the original blue and a soft powdered gold would be perfect.
> 
> ...



While this would be nice to see, the sad reality is that there's no chance of this happening.

What caused them to change the model in the first place (ie numerous people/publicity speaking up about the ZS5 v1 driver configuration) is not going to convince them to make a new model with basically the same setup (ie numerous people/publicity speaking up about a new IEM with the ZS5 v1 driver configuration)?

If it DID however, your list of improvements needs to include a crossover, as well as an impedance more like the ZS5 v2/ZS6 as opposed to the ZS5v1.

Along those same lines, you may get your wish but in a slightly different way. I predict that the ZS10 is going to be a ZS6, but with the 3rd BA driver in the 'missing' space of the hole where it was originally in the ZS5 v1. I think this is likely for the following 3 reasons:

KZ already has all of the parts and molds to do this.
The leaked ZSR Pro (later renamed ZS10) packaging from a long time ago showed an angular housing like the ZS5/ZS6.
The ZS10 is supposed to be 2xDD + 3xBA, so the math works out to what I laid out above (ie 2xBA in nozzle like ZS5v2/ZS6 + 1xBA in internal hole where BA was in ZS5 v1).
I personally think they need to stop beating a dead horse and branch out with upgrades to other model lines. They've done bright treble to death. Let's mix it up with:

a new ATE but with a graphene driver
a new single BA micro model to the HDS line
a new ED model with a Beryllium driver, etc.
a legit Bluetooth 4.2/aptX offering like the Meizu EP51 or EP52
some MMCX IEMs (since they already make MMCX upgrade cables)
a full size wired headphone that's not a POS - something quality made at a budget price, like the Meizu HD50, 1More and Xiaomi headphones, etc


----------



## goodvibes (Feb 6, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I'll just chime in with the suggestion that if you're going to spend $8 for a KZ upgrade cable that you instead get the newer design braided style. I really prefer it to the other 2 older styles that KZ has. They even make an identical version with MMCX connectors instead of the standard KZ dual pins which I think is about the best deal for an inexpensive MMCX cable. But it can be a matter of personal preference. To me its all about how the cable lies, the materials used for the case, how are the microphonics, how it looks, type of jack and connectors, even shape, for example flat cables, etc because I'm in the a cable is a cable camp when it comes to cables making a sonic difference.



I measured mine at .6 per leg which is actually 1.2 ohms since there are 2 legs. The stock Campfire cable was .4 per leg or .8 total, so no, it's not like an 8 core or other thicker ga cables but it's still better than a plastics one etc and it's better balanced than some expensive after market cables I've heard.. I have that is lower resistance. It's a thin cable. It will have more resistance than a thick one. Not how I judge a cable.


----------



## alex5908

Wiljen said:


> It would be hard to argue that both the Zsr and Zst do not have more treble energy than they need.


Why is that? Don't know about ZSR (as I don't have them) but Zst DO have more treble energy than I'd want/need.


----------



## Wiljen

alex5908 said:


> Why is that? Don't know about ZSR (as I don't have them) but Zst DO have more treble energy than I'd want/need.



That was exactly my point, both have more energy than they need.   I think we are arguing over turn of phrase and not differing opinions.


----------



## alex5908

Wiljen said:


> That was exactly my point, both have more energy than they need. I think we are arguing over turn of phrase and not differing opinions.


I don't argue you with you. 
Please change your sentence "It would be hard to argue that both the Zsr and Zst do not have more treble energy than they need."
It should read "have more treble energy" or "would not be hard" to avoid the ambiguity.  Don't you think?


----------



## Wiljen

"It would be hard to argue that both the Zsr and Zst do not have more treble energy than they need" is grammatically correct.

taking not out of "do not have" would reverse the meaning as would adding the not to the earlier clause.   

We both agree that they have too much energy, it is a difference in language and turn of phrase that is at issue.


----------



## nkramer

i lurv them there KS earphones, they make my legg twitch sumpin' feirce


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 23, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> "It would be hard to argue that both the Zsr and Zst do not have more treble energy than they need" is grammatically correct.
> 
> taking not out of "do not have" would reverse the meaning as would adding the not to the earlier clause.
> 
> We both agree that they have too much energy, it is a difference in language and turn of phrase that is at issue.



For what it is worth, I read it exactly as you meant it.

I have the ZSR coming... hope they are ok for me.  I  have no problem with the treble of the ZS6.  I have not heard the ZST.


----------



## youngarthur

nkramer said:


> i lurv them there KS earphones, they make my legg twitch sumpin' feirce


Right on Bro.


----------



## Podster

Let's play spot the KZ's First one to name everything in the box correct wins a pair of Z5V1's from the Pod





No, you don't have to name the spare cables on the left side


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Let's play spot the KZ's First one to name everything in the box correct wins a pair of Z5V1's from the Pod
> 
> 
> No, you don't have to name the spare cables on the left side



Looks like the ZS3 (matte), ZN1 or ZS1 can't see cable length), ED9 (black), ED9 (chrome), ED4, ZS5, ZS5, VE Monk +, VE Monk +, VJJB K4 & is that the Toneking MusicMaker KK Ting?


----------



## Podster

You are dang close @DocHoliday , off on a couple KZ's and yes those are the KK Tings I do like you reaching out in front of all these KZ's veterans This is a very lonely case these days and what cracks me up is I'm far more likely to drop in my ZST's or ZS6's before the ZS5V1's any day of the week and so many here find the ZS5V1 the Shizzle It truly is to each his own in this hobby and we all truly do hear them differently, my ears have zero issue with ZST/ZS6 treble spike or Energy as I've been most recently reading


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> You are dang close @DocHoliday , off on a couple KZ's and yes those are the KK Tings I do like you reaching out in front of all these KZ's veterans This is a very lonely case these days and what cracks me up is I'm far more likely to drop in my ZST's or ZS6's before the ZS5V1's any day of the week and so many here find the ZS5V1 the Shizzle It truly is to each his own in this hobby and we all truly do hear them differently, my ears have zero issue with ZST/ZS6 treble spike or Energy as I've been most recently reading



Well, that makes two of us. I think both are capable of exceptional detail retrieval and I have no issues with the treble on either. 

I also noticed that there is no ES3 review yet. I think it deserves a proper review even though it is similar to the ZST. The differences are subtle, but I can definitely appreciate those differences (slightly more presence in the bass, a tad more warmth in the midrange and highs that are focused more toward lower treble than upper treble). They're a lot of fun.

Thanks for the warm welcome. Little by little it makes the world a better place


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Well, that makes two of us. I think both are capable of exceptional detail retrieval and I have no issues with the treble on either.
> 
> I also noticed that there is no ES3 review yet. I think it deserves a proper review even though it is similar to the ZST. The differences are subtle, but I can definitely appreciate those differences (slightly more presence in the bass, a tad more warmth in the midrange and highs that are focused more toward lower treble than upper treble). They're a lot of fun.
> 
> Thanks for the warm welcome. Little by little it makes the world a better place



Also, I do like the ZS5i. I discovered that I prefer them when I increase the volume past my usual listening level. They pair well with my Fiio X3i [＜0.3 Ω（32Ω)]. I think someone who appreciates a different (read that as warmer) sound signature (ATE) will appreciate them even more than me.

The things is, when I put the ZS6 in my ears, everything else just seems to pale in comparison.

I have the red and the green ZS6, but I am seriously considering picking up the pewter/grey...ish ZS6 as well. To me, they are still a tier above the BVGP DM5 (quad-driver).


----------



## Slater (Jan 23, 2018)

Podster said:


> Let's play spot the KZ's First one to name everything in the box correct wins a pair of Z5V1's from the Pod
> 
> 
> No, you don't have to name the spare cables on the left side



Starting with top row, from L to R:

Spare cable, ZS3, ZS1 (or possibly ZN Mini), Micro Ring, ED9, HDS1

Spare cable, spare cable, ZS5, ZS5, VE Monk (only one I’m unsure of), Colarad C01

Spare cable, spare cable, vjjb k4, KK Tings


----------



## alex5908 (Jan 23, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the ZSR coming... hope they are ok for me. I have no problem with the treble of the ZS6. I have not heard the ZST.


I've lost the hope of getting what I want from KZ after buying ZS1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and ZST. When you get ZSR please compare it with ZS6 as far as piercing treble and good base are concerned. It's a request.


----------



## mbwilson111

alex5908 said:


> I've lost the hope of getting what I want from KZ after buying ZS1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and ZST. When you get ZSR please compare it with ZS6 as far as piercing treble and good base are concerned.



Yes I will  but I do not find the ZS6 to have piercing treble.  I find it spacious and airy.  

First I will just get used to the ZSR.  Trying to compare is not fun.  It detracts from my enjoyment of the music.  I don't even know when it will arrive though.


----------



## Podster (Jan 23, 2018)

Slater said:


> Starting with top row, from L to R:
> 
> Spare cable, ZS3, ZS1 (or possibly ZN Mini), Micro Ring, ED9, HDS1
> 
> ...



Well the Monk's are the same but you are still off in row one and of all people I would think you did not need another ZS5V1


----------



## alex5908

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes I will  but I do not find the ZS6 to have piercing treble.  I find it spacious and airy.


Have you done any mods to ZS6? Which tips are you using?


----------



## Strat Rider

DocHoliday said:


> Well, that makes two of us. I think both are capable of exceptional detail retrieval and I have no issues with the treble on either.
> 
> I also noticed that there is no ES3 review yet. I think it deserves a proper review even though it is similar to the ZST. The differences are subtle, but I can definitely appreciate those differences (slightly more presence in the bass, a tad more warmth in the midrange and highs that are focused more toward lower treble than upper treble). They're a lot of fun.
> 
> Thanks for the warm welcome. Little by little it makes the world a better place


+1 on the ES3. I haven't been able to A-B them myself. Certainly would like to hear opinions from members who have, (if there are any)


----------



## mbwilson111

alex5908 said:


> Have you done any mods to ZS6? Which tips are you using?



Stock tips... the starlines.

No mods... I am not a modder .

Happy with them exactly as they are.


----------



## Podster (Jan 24, 2018)

alex5908 said:


> I've lost the hope of getting what I want from KZ after buying ZS1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and ZST. When you get ZSR please compare it with ZS6 as far as piercing treble and good base are concerned. It's a request.



Best advice I can give you is quit buying KZ! To many epic fails for you to keep dumping money into them


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Podster I'm guessing there is a teensy microdriver in there, but the camera is making it look a bit stubbier than it should be? I'm not going to play since I've got enough KZs, haha.


----------



## alex5908

Podster said:


> Best advice I can give you is quit buying KZ! To many epic gails for you to keep dumping money into them


I guess you're right. I am expecting Ostry KC06A and than I'll stop searching for IEMs for a while. Actually I am not a fan of IEMS especially when compared with Meze 99 Classics which I listen in when at home. I thought I'd find something suitable for the street conditions but in vain. Sorry for the partial off-top.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 23, 2018)

alex5908 said:


> I guess you're right. I am expecting Ostry KC06A and than I'll stop searching for IEMs for a while. Actually I am not a fan of IEMS especially when compared with Meze 99 Classics which I listen in when at home. I thought I'd find something suitable for the street conditions but in vain. Sorry for the partial off-top.



Perhaps, you should consider the BossHiFi B3 (wood) or Urbanfun Hybrid. Maybe even the BossHiFi S1(blue). The S1 wires are over-ear and the B3 wires are not. My B3's have no microphone while my S1's do have a microphone.


----------



## alex5908

DocHoliday said:


> Perhaps, you should consider the BossHiFi B3 (wood) or Urbanfun Hybrid. Maybe even the BossHiFi S1(blue). The S1 wires are over-ear and the B3 wires are not. My B3's have no microphone while my S1's do have a microphone.
> I have Urban fun. But still lacking bass.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> @Podster I'm guessing there is a teensy microdriver in there, but the camera is making it look a bit stubbier than it should be? I'm not going to play since I've got enough KZs, haha.



Very likely but I was sure you'd know them all and probaly my after market cables

Alex, you would be hard pressed to find many iem's that equal the Meze and especially budget ones!


----------



## alex5908

Podster said:


> Alex, you would be hard pressed to find many iem's that equal the Meze and especially budget ones!


Yes, I understand that but if I had less treble in ZS6 I'd be almost satisfied for the street conditions. Thus, I am playing tips (tip rolling) including spinfit and blocking the drivers with fabric. For now with little success. I am getting used to ZS6, though. May be because I am still having a cold it's not THAT piercing now.


----------



## williamclarkonet

just got my silver earphone cable for my KZ ZS3 excited to see if the make a difference


----------



## Podster

alex5908 said:


> Yes, I understand that but if I had less treble in ZS6 I'd be almost satisfied for the street conditions. Thus, I am playing tips (tip rolling) including spinfit and blocking the drivers with fabric. For now with little success. I am getting used to ZS6, though. May be because I am still having a cold it's not THAT piercing now.



I'm thinking the filter over the BA mod may end up working for you when you get the right one fitted


----------



## alex5908 (Jan 23, 2018)

Podster said:


> I'm thinking the filter over the BA mod may end up working for you when you get the right one fitted


I hope so too. But it did not help with ZS5, though. Could be because I removed the foam from ZS3 and put it to the ZS5 nozzle. May be I will try another type of foam or tea bags or stuff like that.
I've a question. What is the best option to have for prominent bass frequencies - small or middle or large size of the tips? I am not talking about the comfort but about the possibility to get more bass.
If I insert tips deep inside my ear and hold them with my hands there inclined at a certain position I am having the bass I am satisfied with. The question is how to keep the earphones in this position. If I found an answer to this question I'd be happy and satisfied. I don't consider the idea of custom molding though. It hurts the ears after hardening. At least I read some reviews about that.


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> Let's play spot the KZ's First one to name everything in the box correct wins a pair of Z5V1's from the Pod…



Those VJJB K4 look interesting. I'm a sucker for wood IEMs. How do they sound? Worth blowing $20 to get a pair?



DocHoliday said:


> Perhaps, you should consider the BossHiFi B3 (wood) or Urbanfun Hybrid. Maybe even the BossHiFi S1(blue). The S1 wires are over-ear and the B3 wires are not…


As mentioned above I love wooden IEMs. I wear my BossHifi B3s over ear. Just switch left and right so that the nozzles point the correct way and can be inserted into my ears. I don't mind when the violins are on the wrong side of the stage. 

If you decide to try the Urbanfun Hybrid be careful with your purchase. They make a beryllium DD that looks similar (perhaps identical) and a number of sellers on Aliexpress.com aren't very good at distinguishing between the models. Some even lump them together in the same product page as 3 'color' choices: the green hybrid, black hybrid and the beryllium DD version.


----------



## Podster

Hey @bsoplinger , I find the K4's to sound 5 times better than you $9.99 Skull Candies at Best Buy not to mention 10 times better looking. IMO worth $20


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> Hey @bsoplinger , I find the K4's to sound 5 times better than you $9.99 Skull Candies at Best Buy not to mention 10 times better looking. IMO worth $20


To be honest I find a pair of old soup cans and a string to sound better than Skull  Candies 
But I get what you mean.


----------



## Slater (Jan 23, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Those VJJB K4 look interesting. I'm a sucker for wood IEMs. How do they sound? Worth blowing $20 to get a pair?



They are made very well, really glossy and nice looking wood (not 'rough' looking wood like a lot of wood IEMs), and are comfortable to wear. I like them a lot. Nice v-shape, great bass, very smooth sounding, easy to drive, EQ and amp well. They aren't the most detailed, which a lot of people hold against it, but I like having some smooth sounding IEMs in my collection, because they're forgiving of lower quality sources ('low-fi heroes' if you will). They're quite fun to listen to. I really should listen to them more than I do (one of the downsides to having a large IEM collection).

There is a few different colors of wood, and a mic (K4S) vs non mic version (K4). They all sound the same though, so get whatever one is the cheapest of the bunch (usually non-mic).


----------



## HungryPanda (Jan 24, 2018)

I did the tape mod on my green ZS6's and it sounded pretty good. Then listened to my unmodded red ones and prefer the unmodded one. I think the vent hole is designed to press against your ear, taping just mimics this


----------



## NeonHD

Can anyone here suggest me a budget IEM that has the big spacious soundstage and vivid imaging from the ZS6, but with a more relaxed, natural-sounding, yet detailed treble?

It's sad to say, but I'm not using my ZS6 as often as my ED9, mostly because my selection of music simply doesn't sound well with that exaggerated peak in the 10Khz area.

I'm thinking about selling my ZS6 now.... and I can't believe I even ordered the bluetooth cable for this.


----------



## HungryPanda

I could answer but that would be an earbud EMX500


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 23, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Those VJJB K4 look interesting. I'm a sucker for wood IEMs. How do they sound? Worth blowing $20 to get a pair?
> 
> 
> As mentioned above I love wooden IEMs. I wear my BossHifi B3s over ear. Just switch left and right so that the nozzles point the correct way and can be inserted into my ears. I don't mind when the violins are on the wrong side of the stage.
> ...



The VJJB K4, though not perfect, can be a lot of fun.The only drawback, IMHO, is the lift in the mid-bass; that aside, they are very energetic. When they were released two years ago, few people recognized that the K4 ($20) were a great alternative to the ever-popular Sennheiser Momentum In-Ear ($100). Let's add insult to injury - why don't we, the K4 was built better than the Momentum as well. The three different color combinations offered were excellent, but the "ebony" K4 took the cake with it's exquisite dark ashy grey polished wood.

VJJB was on a roll with a few decent releases, but haven't been able to keep pace with Knowledge Zenith, Tennmak, UiiSii and a few others that have made more progress. It would be nice to see them get back in the game with another IEM fashioned from wood.

I think they are worth $20, depending on your appetite for mid-bass, but you asked Podster so it's best to defer to him for your answer.


----------



## Selenium

My ZS6 review is up.  
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews#review-19751


----------



## Slater (Jan 24, 2018)

Selenium said:


> My ZS6 review is up.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews#review-19751



Very nice review mate - well done.

I did find one minor error. The ZS6 nozzle is aluminum, not plastic (the one on the ZS5 is plastic). I'll leave it up to you if you want to correct the info in your review or not.

You can see it here - in it's raw machined aluminum form, before being anodized black.




See the 'installed' nozzle approximately in the center of the photo, as well as the 'bare' nozzle at the bottom at 6 o'clock.


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> The VJJB K4
> …
> I think they are worth $20, depending on your appetite for mid-bass, but you asked Podster so it's best to defer to him for your answer.


Your answer is appreciated. I only quoted because that was the first mention I'd seen of that model or for that matter the company.


----------



## bsoplinger

Just a heads up. George-gearbest posted a bunch of KZ coupons over on the Gearbest deal thread. Quite a few of the more inexpensive models and the Bluetooth cables also. Very limited quantities for the coupons. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...9-xiaofang-19-99.832367/page-84#post-13995616


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 21, 2020)

me gusta


----------



## hydroid (Feb 6, 2018)

Got my ZSR yesterday and all my excitement turned into disappointment after listening to them. OOTB, it sounds very bright and piercing to my ears. Initially thought that the ZST is a lot better because the highs are just right and not overly-presented. I'm happy with the bass though since it has the ZS3's bass quantity, IMO.

Then, I decided to do some mod by cutting 4 tiny pieces of earbud foam (1mm by 1mm size) and stuffed them on all the BA's nozzle. Bigger than 1mm sounds muffled/veiled to me. Left the ZSR playing the pink noise the whole night and Voila, I must say the mod made a huge difference. It tamed the highs, not sibilant anymore and at the same time maintained the sparkle/details at least same as the ZST's or even better I guess.,


After the mod, I can say that I'm completely satisfied on how it sounds. I can hear the combination of ZST's highs and ZS3's bass. Crisp midbass as well. Not as rumbly and deep as my IT01's subbass but just right amount according to my taste. I'm still new to this hobby and not too technical to make a detailed comparison but listening to ZSR(after the mod) side by side against the ZST and ZS3 using LG v20, Aune M1s and Zishan Z1, I felt that it's an upgrade to me. Thanks to the community for sharing all the information and your modding experiences.



Update: I know it's a bit late but I just have to give credit to @Slater for his zst mod that served as a guide to this zsr nozzle mod.. I stumble upon his zst mod long time ago when I was still new to the community and somehow forgotten that he is the one who started these great idea. Once again thanks bro..Cheers..


----------



## Selenium

Slater said:


> Very nice review mate - well done.
> 
> I did find one minor error. The ZS6 nozzle is aluminum, not plastic (the one on the ZS5 is plastic). I'll leave it up to you if you want to correct the info in your review or not.
> 
> ...



Oh wow thanks. It even feels like plastic but that's probably due to the tip. It isn't as cool to the touch as the rest of the housing.


----------



## Toastybob

NeonHD said:


> Can anyone here suggest me a budget IEM that has the big spacious soundstage and vivid imaging from the ZS6, but with a more relaxed, natural-sounding, yet detailed treble?
> 
> It's sad to say, but I'm not using my ZS6 as often as my ED9, mostly because my selection of music simply doesn't sound well with that exaggerated peak in the 10Khz area.
> 
> I'm thinking about selling my ZS6 now.... and I can't believe I even ordered the bluetooth cable for this.


Ostry OS300 (black) ear tips (and brain burn-in) were enough to tame the ZS6 treble for me.


----------



## Toastybob (Jan 24, 2018)

I think I have a KZ curse. After my left ZS5 nozzle fell off and apparently damaged the BA drivers, and the ZSR arrived but have nozzles too large for my ears, my two week old left ES3 suddenly stopped working. I tested with multiple cables, no sound out of the left side at all. I had heard of this happening to recent ZS3s, but not ES3s...

On a positive note, with larger ear tips I can just barely insert the ZSR and wear them like "on-ear monitors".
I haven't done extensive comparisons and I don't consider myself experienced enough to comment on the sound in detail, but at least with this configuration they sound much better to me than the ZST, closer to the ZS6. Vocals seem noticeably louder than ZST.


----------



## Slater

Selenium said:


> Oh wow thanks. It even feels like plastic but that's probably due to the tip. It isn't as cool to the touch as the rest of the housing.



If you touch it to your lips you'll feel the coldness easier, as your lips are much more sensitive and the skin is very thin.

You can also very gently drag it across a tooth. When it's metal it will feel "grainy", but plastic will feel slippery.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 24, 2018)

Slater said:


> I personally think they need to stop beating a dead horse and branch out with upgrades to other model lines. They've done bright treble to death. Let's mix it up with:
> 
> a *new ATE* but with a graphene driver



NoooOOOOO!!! No kill for ATE !!! They are great single dynamic!!!

Just new DD lineup with graphene driver would be ok.... and long live the ATE !

They should just update ATE shells design with something similar as my FF-mod and KZ fans would have very close (~97-98%) sound to ZS5v1 (in right conditions) with half of ZS5v2 price 

;P


----------



## RvTrav

NeonHD said:


> Can anyone here suggest me a budget IEM that has the big spacious soundstage and vivid imaging from the ZS6, but with a more relaxed, natural-sounding, yet detailed treble?
> 
> It's sad to say, but I'm not using my ZS6 as often as my ED9, mostly because my selection of music simply doesn't sound well with that exaggerated peak in the 10Khz area.
> 
> I'm thinking about selling my ZS6 now.... and I can't believe I even ordered the bluetooth cable for this.



I have the UiiSii CM5 and believe it meets the criteria you are looking for. Gearbest has them for $26.65 Canadian .


----------



## MasterDomino (Jan 24, 2018)

Finally got my zs3 and es3. Zs3 seems to work fine for now, but i instantly moded it xD


Spoiler


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Very nice review mate - well done.
> 
> I did find one minor error. The ZS6 nozzle is aluminum, not plastic (the one on the ZS5 is plastic). I'll leave it up to you if you want to correct the info in your review or not.
> 
> ...


Now if KZ would release a ZS6 in anodized polished aluminum, that would be awesome!


----------



## Mellowship

MasterDomino said:


> Finally got my zs3 and es3. Zs3 seems to work fine for now, but i instantly moded it xD
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Did the exact same thing yesterday to the exact same cable for my ZS3. I was using the KZ silver cable (the clear one), but got tired of looking at it turning green from oxidation, so I picked up the stock ZS3 cable and pulled the memory guides apart. One thing that astonished me was the build up of rust on one of the memory wires that was starting to damage the rubber on the cable. All my stuff is stored in dry places and I seldomly use a cloth bag filled with silica gel that I made from several small paper packages to keep things dry (the bag is then heated in the microwave to remove excess moisture - a trick I learned from professional photographers who use this method to keep their expensive lens free of fungus). So I guess the rust had developed before the item arrived. Can't complain. Chinese facilities...


----------



## MasterDomino (Jan 24, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> Did the exact same thing yesterday to the exact same cable for my ZS3. I was using the KZ silver cable (the clear one), but got tired of looking at it turning green from oxidation, so I picked up the stock ZS3 cable and pulled the memory guides apart. One thing that astonished me was the build up of rust on one of the memory wires that was starting to damage the rubber on the cable. All my stuff is stored in dry places and I seldomly use a cloth bag filled with silica gel that I made from several small paper packages to keep things dry (the bag is then heated in the microwave to remove excess moisture - a trick I learned from professional photographers who use this method to keep their expensive lens free of fungus). So I guess the rust had developed before the item arrived. Can't complain. Chinese facilities...


oxydation isnt caused by water at all, its caused by oxygen which you have a lot in air xD, those are not stainless steel or anything soo its pretty normal they will corrode, also thats quite suprising they damaged the rubber, i took it out from mine cuz i wear glasses and this actually kindof annoys me, prolly will do same to ES3 but those actually fit better if it comes to the cables with glasses, also i should use a little heat to seal the shrinking tube, but will do it later, idk how to burn-in soo i just left music running on them will pick them up in a few hours and see if theres any change, rn testing ES3 and they sounds quite nice, the ZS3 also sound quite naughty but well have to get used to them.
EDIT: well water does speed up oxydation cuz well H2O sorry for bad explanation xD


----------



## Mellowship

MasterDomino said:


> oxydation isnt caused by water at all, its caused by oxygen which you have a lot in air xD, those are not stainless steel or anything soo its pretty normal they will corrode, also thats quite suprising they damaged the rubber, i took it out from mine cuz i wear glasses and this actually kindof annoys me, prolly will do same to ES3 but those actually fit better if it comes to the cables with glasses, also i should use a little heat to seal the shrinking tube, but will do it later, idk how to burn-in soo i just left music running on them will pick them up in a few hours and see if theres any change, rn testing ES3 and they sounds quite nice, the ZS3 also sound quite naughty but well have to get used to them.
> EDIT: well water does speed up oxydation cuz well H2O sorry for bad explanation xD


Hey, don't mind!  water speeds up oxidation because oxigen is water-soluble and if moisture (i.e. water) sticks to an oxidable surface, it will increase contact area and exposition of oxigen with that surface! 
I also wear glasses and the only cable with some kind of memory guiding I could find that I was confortable with was one from an unknown brand at AE, with a very thin transparent rectractible plastic that was molded in a ear-shaped form.


----------



## MasterDomino

Mellowship said:


> Hey, don't mind!  water speeds up oxidation because oxigen is water-soluble and if moisture (i.e. water) sticks to an oxidable surface, it will increase contact area and exposition of oxigen with that surface!
> I also wear glasses and the only cable with some kind of memory guiding I could find that I was confortable with was one from an unknown brand at AE, with a very thin transparent rectractible plastic that was molded in a ear-shaped form.


my next problem is i have really small ear canals, soo i always have to pick smallest tip, the starlines on ES3 actually fit me on medium size O.o, and i just listened to this and it sounds majestic as hell. also heated the tubing in zs3 and it seems sturdy and clean cuz i havent cut it fully i guess it will be more durable , not sure about removal of the memory wire from ES3 yet :/ ah dilemmas.


----------



## Podster (Jan 24, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> To be honest I find a pair of old soup cans and a string to sound better than Skull  Candies
> But I get what you mean.



LOL, you have a point @bsoplinger but that just sounded so cruel In their defense as with the Dasterdly Beats and Blose they do put out sound

MHO is both Slater and the Doc have given a pretty good description of the K4's and size, fit and finish for 20 bones are top notch, little lacking in clarity and what I call mobile midrange they can hold their own at $20 with other V-shaped iem's and some a little more expensive As cheap as they are almost everyone who looks at them compliments their look

In reference to Slater's comment on them sounding good with lesser/cheaper DAPS mine have always sounded really good with my Mrobo 5





Dang, better get politically correct for the thread I'm in, Mrobo 5 also sounds pretty good with these shiny puppies


----------



## bsoplinger

RvTrav said:


> I have the UiiSii CM5 and believe it meets the criteria you are looking for. Gearbest has them for $26.65 Canadian .


Amazon.com USA has them for $15.99 but not sure if the Canadian brand has but it might be worth looking.


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> LOL, you have a point @bsoplinger but that just sounded so cruel In their defense as with the Dasterdly Beats and Blose they do put out sound
> 
> MHO is both Slater and the Doc have given a pretty good description of the K4's and size, fit and finish for 20 bones are top notch, little lacking in clarity and what I call mobile midrange they can hold their own at $20 with other V-shaped iem's and some a little more expensive As cheap as they are almost everyone who looks at them compliments their look
> 
> Dang, better get politically correct for the thread I'm in


Thanks for the reply. Yeah twas a bit cruel I get. Just that I keep hearing about how wonderful they are from people. And in their defense I guess they sound better than the complete garbage that comes free with so many products. But they really aren't a good sounding product. 

I asked because of just that, how good they look when I went looking for more info about them. 

And also to be politically correct for the thread… KZ has tried a few different designs for different purposes. How do we suggest to them to try making a wood bodied IEM?


----------



## paulindss

After a year of usage i decided to do Slater mod on my ZST. I also take off the memory wire of the cable. Well, i think that they got some juice and will Still be rocking for some time. I Will order a upgrade cable.

What i think that i'm hearing after the mod: The Bass os a little bit elevated, wich i did'nt think It was necessary. The mids are way more present, i think and the treble continues to be very clear. Overrall the sound is Warmer, but keeping the Clarity. I did'nt liked the bump in the Bass tho. Maybe this bump together with the mids makes the music sound too much artificial.

If i'm happy with the mod ? YES. I got a new iem. Just eq the Bass down a little bit and we are done.


----------



## Podster

Yes, I think the ZST is a shining star for KZ and the one + one setup is excellently tuned. If you read through this thread the one thing that always pops up is how the ZST does not over power in the treble as the dual BA's do and also IMO the single DD provides plenty of bass, what I get with dual DD's is just a little more refinement on the bass and mid bass ranges but when I slip back into my ZST's I rarely miss it as well. Of course this is just my ears and of course YMMV Like you and after wearing my Carbon's for a year now thought they would give up the ghost but are still working great as well as my colorful's


----------



## paulindss (Jan 24, 2018)

paulindss said:


> After a year of usage i decided to do Slater mod on my ZST. I also take off the memory wire of the cable. Well, i think that they got some juice and will Still be rocking for some time. I Will order a upgrade cable.
> 
> What i think that i'm hearing after the mod: The Bass os a little bit elevated, wich i did'nt think It was necessary. The mids are way more present, i think and the treble continues to be very clear. Overrall the sound is Warmer, but keeping the Clarity. I did'nt liked the bump in the Bass tho. Maybe this bump together with the mids makes the music sound too much artificial.
> 
> If i'm happy with the mod ? YES. I got a new iem. Just eq the Bass down a little bit and we are done.



Just did a A/B with my swing ie800. And hell, compared to them the KZ modded has absolutely no sibilance. On my phone, in a propor source the swing it"s not that sibilant.

The sound on Zst modded is large, rounded, super loud. With a awesome Bass. But sounds artifical. And a bit agressive. Quantity is'nt quality after all.

If i like ? Hm... Yes i like it. To me they are sounding quite like what a ZS3 with better Clarity and actually a real treble response. Not muffled and dark.

Edit: right now they are the most revealing iem in my bench, while the Other's did'nt arrive. They really did'nt miss anything in the Clarity. And the elevated bass did'nt muffled the other frequencies. THESE ARE JUST ROCKING LOUD.

Link to @Slater mod: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yeah twas a bit cruel I get. Just that I keep hearing about how wonderful they are from people. And in their defense I guess they sound better than the complete garbage that comes free with so many products. But they really aren't a good sounding product.
> 
> I asked because of just that, how good they look when I went looking for more info about them.
> 
> And also to be politically correct for the thread… KZ has tried a few different designs for different purposes. How do we suggest to them to try making a wood bodied IEM?



After seeing some of Coil's immaculate shell work I always thought a wooden bodied ED9 would look sweet, sort of like a shell made out of No. 2 pencil! That is what the ED9 shape has always reminded me of


----------



## TJK81

bsoplinger said:


> Amazon.com USA has them for $15.99 but not sure if the Canadian brand has but it might be worth looking.


Just now on GB for 21 dollars in the flash sale. All three colors.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> NoooOOOOO!!! No kill for ATE !!! They are great single dynamic!!!
> 
> Just new DD lineup with graphene driver would be ok.... and long live the ATE !
> 
> ...



No, I'm not saying to kill it at all. I'm saying *KZ* seemed to have killed every line but the ZS.

I'm saying to evolve the AT line with a new model - they did ATE, ATE-S, then ATR...then dead. Just like they've had nothing new for ED, HDS, etc.

The ATx shell is perfect for a removable cable option (ie MMCx), and update the driver to graphene or beryllium. And yes, add rear vents (even like the ZS6) if the tuning works with the new driver.


----------



## Slater

paulindss said:


> After a year of usage i decided to do Slater mod on my ZST. I also take off the memory wire of the cable. Well, i think that they got some juice and will Still be rocking for some time. I Will order a upgrade cable.
> 
> What i think that i'm hearing after the mod: The Bass os a little bit elevated, wich i did'nt think It was necessary. The mids are way more present, i think and the treble continues to be very clear. Overrall the sound is Warmer, but keeping the Clarity. I did'nt liked the bump in the Bass tho. Maybe this bump together with the mids makes the music sound too much artificial.
> 
> If i'm happy with the mod ? YES. I got a new iem. Just eq the Bass down a little bit and we are done.



You talking about the foam mod for the ZST?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650

That only affects the BA driver - it shouldn't do anything to bass whatsoever.

Partially inserted:



Fullly inserted:


----------



## rendyG

I think he ment that relative bass level increased when he tamed the treble.


----------



## paulindss (Jan 24, 2018)

Yes, that mod. Well, it's my hearing perception. I certainly hear the Bass more proeminent. But i'm no expert. So take a grain of salt.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yeah twas a bit cruel I get. Just that I keep hearing about how wonderful they are from people. And in their defense I guess they sound better than the complete garbage that comes free with so many products. But they really aren't a good sounding product.
> 
> I asked because of just that, how good they look when I went looking for more info about them.
> 
> And also to be politically correct for the thread… KZ has tried a few different designs for different purposes. How do we suggest to them to try making a wood bodied IEM?



Something other than bamboo please. I just never got into the ED7. It just looks cheap and ugly.

Need something nice looking, like cocobolo, walnut, sapele, ebony, etc


----------



## LordZero

Buying the TRN10 silver cable here:
https://goo.gl/igYEmT
or here
https://goo.gl/JYng58

Is any different? The price is cheaper on the first one.


----------



## Slater (Jan 24, 2018)

paulindss said:


> Yes, that mod. Well, it's my hearing perception. I certainly hear the Bass more proeminent. But i'm no expert. So take a grain of salt.



OK, I get what you mean. You're hearing less of the sharp treble, which tweaks the overall balance of the tri-band, thus making the bass (and midrange) more prominent.

If you did this foam mod (that someone posted for the ZS6) - where a large piece of foam gets folded over in the WHOLE NOZZLE - then that will definitely increase (and muddy) the bass. Like this:


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 24, 2018)

Podster said:


> After seeing some of Coil's immaculate shell work I always thought a wooden bodied ED9 would look sweet, sort of like a shell made out of No. 2 pencil! That is what the ED9 shape has always reminded me of



Agreed.

What I'd love to see from KZ:

1) a line of wooden IEMs with more refined offerings of what they've done in the past.
a - ATE
b - ATR
c - ED9
d- EDR2
e - HDS3
f - HDS1

OR

2) a line of IEMs that use porcelain ZS3 housings (similar to Rock Zircon material) with more refined offerings of what they've done in the past. 
The ZS3 housing is so comfortable (for many) that it's a no-brainer to offer more sound signatures and just vary the colors for the model, as Campfire Audio has done with their Jupiter, Andromeda, etc..
a - midnight blue ZS3 (refined ATE)
b - black cherry ZS3 (refined ATR)
c - amber ZS3 (refined ED9)
d- white ZS3 (refined EDR2)
e - silver ZS3 (refined HDS3)
f - bronze ZS3 (refined HDS1)

They could even make a smaller housing for those with smaller ears.

One could argue "why rehash where they've already been?", but I would argue that the best results come from small EQ adjustments off of the waterline. The greater the distance from the waterline, the more unnatural the sound. Most of KZ's earlier offerings (listed above) are different sound signatures based on slight variations up and down the frequency ranges. The aforementioned models were successful for a reason.

KZ could now take those sound signatures and offer the following:
*better resolution 
*better clarity
*better separation 
*better imaging (KZ's imaging is currently better than most in the budget-fi arena)

In short, more refined.

In addition, sound signatures that would cater to the treble sensitive would be well received.

Sure, KZ can seek out more sound signatures, but we know that the aforementioned ones work.

a - forward midrange, rolled treble (ATE)  
b - very mild "V" (ATR) [ZS5i depending on who you ask)
c - more pronounced "V", lots of air (ED9)
d- relatively neutral (EDR2)
e - more pronounced "U", lots of air (HDS3)
f - very mild inverted "V" (HDS1)
g - mild "W" (ED10) [ZS6 depending on who you ask)

As I stated in my first post, if KZ kills off the plastic ZS5(ii) and offers a ZS7(?) with the ZS5(i) sound signature, they could take advantage of the ZS6 aluminum housing and just delete the three face vents. They can find a way to mimic the ZS5(i) sound signature (including crossovers this time) by employing dampening agents. 

I prefer the ZS6 to my ZS5 (i), but the ZS5 (i) sound signature appeals to a great many people, just as the ATE does. The ATE is not MY top choice, but it's one of KZ's top sellers for a reason. It's nirvana for a lot of people.

At any rate, it's not rocket science and they don't have to reinvent the wheel. 

Finally, I'd like to see KZ branch out, perhaps into planar magnetic in-ears the way Monoprice has. It could prove to be a successful endeavor for them and another huge benefit for us 

Just sayin'


----------



## AKMW44

Im going  to buy another set of KZZS6 iems, is there a code and which place is best to order from Aliexpress or gearbest.. Thanks and hope its ok in this thread


----------



## Podster

That's a good question because many prefer GB over AliEx, may also depend on how long you want to wait! Patience level varies around here as well

My last ZS6's came from these two:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...32830971786.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.zgAf21

Can't beat the GB Promo price though

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-hea...il_sys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=shipping


----------



## rendyG

ZS6 for $23, these codes are being refreshed often


----------



## CYoung234

mbwilson111 said:


> Stock tips... the starlines.
> 
> No mods... I am not a modder .
> 
> Happy with them exactly as they are.



+1, using stock starlines on both my pairs, and love them. I am not overly treble sensitive, although my **** XBA 6in1's are too hot for me. There is an unnatural sizzle to them for cymbals, etc. that is annoying. Still trying different tips with them, but they do not get much ear time...


----------



## stryed

CYoung234 said:


> +1, using stock starlines on both my pairs, and love them. I am not overly treble sensitive, although my **** XBA 6in1's are too hot for me. There is an unnatural sizzle to them for cymbals, etc. that is annoying. Still trying different tips with them, but they do not get much ear time...



Same.  However they do sound slightly better with wide bore tips...If only they could stay on.


----------



## Podster

Ooh, never tried the 6in1's but I sure love my 4in1's I'm 4 sure not treble sensitive The 6in1 is such a departure from the 4in1 design, of course being a direct copy of the Sony XB series it's a no wonder I guess like the old saying goes copying is the highest form of flattery unless you end up in court LOL


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd prefer to see KZ try their hand at a clip on like Porta Pro, KSC75, ATH-EW9, etc.  Also, a stab at earbuds like Kinera's very limited release would be pleasant.


----------



## Podster

Well @Saoshyant , if your going to dream; dream big! So who can point me to this ZS6 in Pewter Gray I keep hearing about cause the only colors I've found so far are Black, Green and Red!


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Well @Saoshyant , if your going to dream; dream big! So who can point me to this ZS6 in Pewter Gray I keep hearing about cause the only colors I've found so far are Black, Green and Red!



This one?

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Driver-Earphones-Detachable-Microphone/dp/B077LMJGHM


----------



## Podster

THX @groucho69 , guessing this color was taken on when they decided to discontinue the Green? I mean I know there are lots of green to still be found but I was thinking once the heat got turned up with the green ones mimicking the Andro they probably figured they pushed this one to the edge Really would like to find a gray pair at Gearbest for that $28.99 price if I can, I like the look of the ZS5 gray in plastic so I'm sure this matte aluminum one would look spot on I love the look and sound of the ZS6 and the Red ones now live in the old Outback's console with a few others but seem to always be the first ones pulled when I'm out and about As much as I like my Tri-Braid cable I just find this combo to look as rich as they sound!


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Well @Saoshyant , if your going to dream; dream big! So who can point me to this ZS6 in Pewter Gray I keep hearing about cause the only colors I've found so far are Black, Green and Red!


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> THX @groucho69 , guessing this color was taken on when they decided to discontinue the Green? I mean I know there are lots of green to still be found but I was thinking once the heat got turned up with the green ones mimicking the Andro they probably figured they pushed this one to the edge Really would like to find a gray pair at Gearbest for that $28.99 price if I can, I like the look of the ZS5 gray in plastic so I'm sure this matte aluminum one would look spot on I love the look and sound of the ZS6 and the Red ones now live in the old Outback's console with a few others but seem to always be the first ones pulled when I'm out and about As much as I like my Tri-Braid cable I just find this combo to look as rich as they sound!



Did you ask George for a code?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I


Slater said:


>


It's up on gearbest as of yesterday too


----------



## riffrafff

The grey ZS6's are touted as having "extra bass" on Gearbest (along with a higher price).  So, are these the same as the previous three colors or not?


----------



## Podster

groucho69 said:


> Did you ask George for a code?



I have not but I was just out on GB and did not see the gray! I see further investigation is in order.


----------



## groucho69 (Jan 24, 2018)

Podster said:


> I have not but I was just out on GB and did not see the gray! I see further investigation is in order.



Done your Deerstalker


----------



## Podster

groucho69 said:


> Done your Deerstalker



Why thank you Watson


----------



## alex5908

Slater said:


> You talking about the foam mod for the ZST?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650
> 
> ...


Which way is it better to tame treble/increase bass? Partially or fully inserted?


----------



## paulindss

Does KZ upgrade cable continues to turn Green ?


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> Which way is it better to tame treble/increase bass? Partially or fully inserted?



The 1st photo just shows it partially inserted so you can see it easier. It's part of the process. Like if you were cutting a tree down, you could show a photo of the tree chopped/sawed partially through, then show a photo of the tree fully cut down.

When doing the Slater foam mod to the BA driver, the idea is the foam gets fully inserted when the process is complete.


----------



## paulindss

alex5908 said:


> Which way is it better to tame treble/increase bass? Partially or fully inserted?



The mod is to Full insert the small piece of foam. But look, Just insert, not to push it all the way down. In the Slater post it is well explained. Look for the link of slater's tutorial in my post earlier today


----------



## Slater

paulindss said:


> The mod is to Full insert the small piece of foam. But look, Just insert, not to push it all the way down. In the Slater post it is well explained. Look for the link of slater's tutorial in my post earlier today



Linky linky: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## bsoplinger (Jan 24, 2018)

Podster said:


> I have not but I was just out on GB and did not see the gray! I see further investigation is in order.


Its listed separately from the red, green and black model (which shows discontinued for the green) and claims it is the extra bass model, as if they need extra bass. Here's a Gearbest link to them

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1451831.html

Should mention that in the pictures on Gearbest it mentions upgraded cable design and I will say that the cable does look different in the pictures.


----------



## Podster

THX @bsoplinger , I'm sure I'd get an upgrade silver cable for them but what is bothering me now in several of those photo's shell is two tone! No likey that and has anyone read what's making these MEGA bass?


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 24, 2018)

Podster said:


> Yes, I think the ZST is a shining star for KZ and the one + one setup is excellently tuned. If you read through this thread the one thing that always pops up is how the ZST does not over power in the treble as the dual BA's do and also IMO the single DD provides plenty of bass, what I get with dual DD's is just a little more refinement on the bass and mid bass ranges but when I slip back into my ZST's I rarely miss it as well. Of course this is just my ears and of course YMMV Like you and after wearing my Carbon's for a year now thought they would give up the ghost but are still working great as well as my colorful's



Thus far, seems like we share similar tastes and tolerances (treble sensitivity). Two questions regarding sound, Wyatt:
1) Your thoughts on the SE215 vs the ZST?
2) Your thoughts on the Klipsch S3M vs the HDS1?



The HDS1 was much better than the Klipsch S3 Image, but I never picked up the S3M. 

...just curious if Klipsch improved the sonics to a significant degree.


----------



## Podster

ZST is more lively than the SE215 and I wear them a lot more than my Shures. The 215's are great iem's but for me they are warmer and less involving, they don't draw me in. They are like background music iem's for me for like when I'm reading or mowing the lawn is the best way for me to describe how I hear and use them. 

So now for the HDS1's, they are actually boring for me but with that said they I love to sleep in them at low volume, perfectly small shells for sleeping. I really like my red S3M's but I hardly wear them anymore because I have so many that are better. They reside in my console and I bet my son has worn them more in the last three years than I have. I've always loved the timber of my Klipsch iem's, have the ceramic S7's too.


----------



## Podster (Jan 24, 2018)

So now we know why Pod does not attempt formal reviews


----------



## Lord Rexter

Just wanted to post couple of pics of KZ ZS6 with 2.5mm balanced cables


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 24, 2018)

Podster said:


> ZST is more lively than the SE215 and I wear them a lot more than my Shures. The 215's are great iem's but for me they are warmer and less involving, they don't draw me in. They are like background music iem's for me for like when I'm reading or mowing the lawn is the best way for me to describe how I hear and use them.
> 
> So now for the HDS1's, they are actually boring for me but with that said they I love to sleep in them at low volume, perfectly small shells for sleeping. I really like my red S3M's but I hardly wear them anymore because I have so many that are better. They reside in my console and I bet my son has worn them more in the last three years than I have. I've always loved the timber of my Klipsch iem's, have the ceramic S7's too.






Podster said:


> The 215's are great iem's but for me they are warmer and less involving,



Lacking energy.....  slightly veiled.... or just sort of flat?

In regards to the Klipsch, I enjoyed the original S3 Image, but noticed they displayed an unacceptable spike in the upper midrange so I veered away from the hype surrounding the S4, though I've always regretted not getting the "S4 Reference".

This is about the time that SoundMAGIC (the original Chi-Fi brand) caught my eye and the Chi-Fi chase was on.

At any rate, I found the HDS1 to be the perfect "middle of the road" IEM that presented very little coloration and were supremely comfortable. Haven't listened to mine in quite awhile. Maybe I'll revisit them before the ZSR arrives.

.

 

The HDS1 did a great job presenting John Williams  "Rodrigo".

In addition, my HDS1 outperforms my BossHiFi S1 hybrid by a country mile. The S1 is a good IEM but the micro-driver in the HDS1 just drops the mic and walks off stage like it can't be bothered....no contest.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 24, 2018)

Lord Rexter said:


> Just wanted to post couple of pics of KZ ZS6 with 2.5mm balanced cables


Link please to the yellow cables attached to the black ZS6 and the cables attached to the pewter ZS6?

Also, what source are you using and can you elaborate on any perceived sonic improvements?


----------



## DocHoliday

Now you've gone and done it. After seeing that satin finish in pewter I have to pick them up. Thanks for the photo


----------



## hydroid

alex5908 said:


> Which way is it better to tame treble/increase bass? Partially or fully inserted?



fully inserted is way better based on my experience. Highs are tamed and most importantly killed the annoying sibilance. Details/sparkle are sufficient enough and I was blown away by how good the ZST sounds after this mod.


----------



## hydroid (Jan 25, 2018)

Slater said:


> OK, I get what you mean. You're hearing less of the sharp treble, which tweaks the overall balance of the tri-band, thus making the bass (and midrange) more prominent.
> 
> If you did this foam mod (that someone posted for the ZS6) - where a large piece of foam gets folded over in the WHOLE NOZZLE - then that will definitely increase (and muddy) the bass. Like this:



Once again @Slater can't thank you enough for bringing all those mods up., after trying both those foam mods in the photos (both the BA's and shell's nozzle) my final verdict is that the ZST won't be replaced by the the ZSR in terms of sound quality and comfort. Initially thought that it's gonna be an overkill by dampening both the BA's and the entire shell nozzle of the ZST but it brings out the best in them. ZST immediately increases the bass quantity without interfering the high frequency. Maintained the sparkle and still hearing those lovely micro details. Thank you again bro.,.


----------



## NeonHD (Feb 6, 2018)

Hey unrelated question, are you that same DocHoliday that writes those insanely detailed reviews of KZ IEMs on Amazon?


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 25, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> Hey unrelated question, are you that same DocHoliday that writes those insanely detailed reviews of KZ IEMs on Amazon?



I'm your huckleberry  

Most of the body of those reviews is dedicated to the importance of eartip rolling and differences in ear canal anatomy. Just copied and pasted fundamentals for using in-ears. Amazon is rife with poor reviews due to the uneducated regarding IEMs.


----------



## Lord Rexter

DocHoliday said:


> Now you've gone and done it. After seeing that satin finish in pewter I have to pick them up. Thanks for the photo



Sounds good. Well both yellow cables have the same finish, I prefer the angle of the second cable (with plastic inserts suites me better) link here: http://s.aliexpress.com/u2iAjymA?


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Hey unrelated question, are you that same DocHoliday that writes those insanely detailed reviews of KZ IEMs on Amazon?



I've read those before - good lord that man is thorough!

He likes his KZs as much as me!


----------



## DocHoliday

Lord Rexter said:


> Sounds good. Well both yellow cables have the same finish, I prefer the angle of the second cable (with plastic inserts suites me better) link here: http://s.aliexpress.com/u2iAjymA?



I suspected the plastic angled cable would be more ergonomic. The additional info is appreciated.


----------



## NeonHD

DocHoliday said:


> I'm your huckleberry
> 
> Most of the body of those reviews is dedicated to the importance of eartip rolling and differences in ear canal anatomy. Just copied and pasted fundamentals for using in-ears. Amazon is rife with poor reviews due to the uneducated regarding IEMs.



Haha awesome, big fan of your reviews man 

And I definitely agree to that, I personally find the long introductions very useful and I'll bet many people on Amazon do as well.


----------



## Lord Rexter

DocHoliday said:


> I suspected the plastic angled cable would be more ergonomic. The additional info is appreciated.


Very welcome, happy to help out.


----------



## DocHoliday

NeonHD said:


> Haha awesome, big fan of your reviews man
> 
> And I definitely agree to that, I personally find the long introductions very useful and I'll bet many people on Amazon do as well.



Much appreciated, Neon. It's turned out to be a decent catalogue for early KZ's, though B9's "Contraptionist" is the more complete resource.


----------



## bsoplinger

Lord Rexter said:


> Just wanted to post couple of pics of KZ ZS6 with 2.5mm balanced cables


I noticed that the cable on the red pair has the angled connector instead of the straight one. Is it comfortable that way? I know KZ markets their cables such that the angled one is for certain models and the straight one for others including the ZS5 and ZS6. Does it matter?


----------



## bsoplinger

Lord Rexter said:


> Here you go:
> _Link removed_…


That first link is to the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked©®™ (tstsnbnnl for short ) so you might want to edit your post.


----------



## ivo001

DocHoliday said:


> Thus far, seems like we share similar tastes and tolerances (treble sensitivity). Two questions regarding sound, Wyatt:
> 1) Your thoughts on the SE215 vs the ZST?
> 2) Your thoughts on the Klipsch S3M vs the HDS1?
> The HDS1 was much better than the Klipsch S3 Image, but I never picked up the S3M.
> ...



Is the Samsung YP-Q1 considered a good mp3 player? Still have it laying around somewhere, but have ordered a Benjie S5b anyways lol


----------



## Lord Rexter (Jan 25, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I noticed that the cable on the red pair has the angled connector instead of the straight one. Is it comfortable that way? I know KZ markets their cables such that the angled one is for certain models and the straight one for others including the ZS5 and ZS6. Does it matter?


Well to answer your question I tried both KZ ZS5/6 ZSR/T and found that the angled cable is more comfortable to my ears and better isolation (little snug fit) than straight one. And the cable is flexible.  Hope this helps.

Edit: Added link for the cable, thinking you might be interested: http://s.aliexpress.com/eEfEZvEn?


----------



## Lord Rexter

bsoplinger said:


> That first link is to the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked©®™ (tstsnbnnl for short ) so you might want to edit your post.


Well I didn't know that, so edited the first link thanks.


----------



## Podster (Jan 25, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I noticed that the cable on the red pair has the angled connector instead of the straight one. Is it comfortable that way? I know KZ markets their cables such that the angled one is for certain models and the straight one for others including the ZS5 and ZS6. Does it matter?



I'm actually partial to the cable on the red pair @Lord Rexter , can you post that link or is also from he who shall not be named? THX

@DocHoliday The SE215 for me is a very clean and smooth sounding iem and a gem for the price if you like a flatter sounding iem. I really like them if I'm listening to music with horns especially for any extended time, I actually put them on the same lines with my Mee P1/PX's. You have used a lot of terms warm, flat, slightly veiled but the term I'd use is smooth sounding (and in all actuality that means to my feeble mind lacking in detail/brightness), why I mentioned I don't really do reviews because I have like a total new base on terminology! People especially newbies get confused enough around here so I tend to not want to addd to that for anyone I've caught a few of your Amazon reviews and I could never explain what I hear as well as you so I just put my $0.02 in around here now and then and hope I'm close to what some others hear. My true signature is a brighter more detailed signature generally at lower volumes than most I believe Oh yeah, that is a great John Williams piece, my late little brother was a major Williams fan, he was really into the Jurassic Park stuff before he passed and I pretty much put the theme song on every card I own because it reminds me so much of him


----------



## Lord Rexter

Podster said:


> I'm actually partial to the cable on the red pair @Lord Rexter , can you post that link or is also from he who shall not be named? THX



Here you go (Silver & Black cable): http://s.aliexpress.com/eEfEZvEn?

Gold/Yellow cable with plastic inserts: http://s.aliexpress.com/u2iAjymA?

Gold/Yellow cable with metal inserts: http://s.aliexpress.com/Vj6fAbYZ?

Gold and Silver cable (on the Green one) with black metal inserts: 
http://s.aliexpress.com/mUJZ7fM3?

Hope this helps


----------



## Podster

THX @Lord Rexter , I always love putting a cable on that retails for twice my iem's price but the Blk/Silver 2.5 Bal. cable will be sweet on either the Red, Black and Pewter

Now I'm not sure if he's changed the name of his store but all three are by the brand who should not be mentioned here! Of course I've seen his name splashed around a lot lately and seems no one at Head-Fi is too interested in the hush; hush ban put on him last year I believe it was


----------



## DocHoliday

ivo001 said:


> Is the Samsung YP-Q1 considered a good mp3 player? Still have it laying around somewhere, but have ordered a Benjie S5b anyways lol



It's a funny little powerhouse fitted with a Wolfson DAC. When I first got it I couldn't understand why it only lasted 8 hours while all my other mp3 playes lasted 20+ hours. It just isn't like most of the DAPs that were released back in 2008-2009. It seems that when you choose a preset EQ the amp kicks in, which is odd, but it just sounds incredible when paired with relatively neutral IEMs.

Way back then Samsung had what was known as DNSE which I think was an acronym for Dynamic Natural Sound Enhancement. Current Sony DAPs have their own version of DNSE. 

Anyway, it's fantastic on the Samsung player.

I've had it for approximately 10 years and it has held up well. I use it mostly for Chillout, Progressive Trance and Progressive House as you can see in the photo. I have all fifty of the Masterworks Collection mixes on it and it sounds like I am at a club with a top notch sound system. 

Great sounding DAP!


----------



## bsoplinger

Lord Rexter said:


> Well to answer your question I tried both KZ ZS5/6 ZSR/T and found that the angled cable is more comfortable to my ears and better isolation (little snug fit) than straight one. And the cable is flexible.  Hope this helps.
> 
> Edit: Added link for the cable, thinking you might be interested: http://s.aliexpress.com/eEfEZvEn?


I was very interested in the cable until I saw it was over 3x what I paid for my most expensive KZs. I'm too cheap. Doubt I'd spend that much on my Fostex TH-X00 Purpleheart and they're a $450 pair of headphones although I didn't pay that much for mine.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> I'm actually partial to the cable on the red pair @Lord Rexter , can you post that link or is also from he who shall not be named? THX
> 
> @DocHoliday The SE215 for me is a very clean and smooth sounding iem and a gem for the price if you like a flatter sounding iem. I really like them if I'm listening to music with horns especially for any extended time, I actually put them on the same lines with my Mee P1/PX's. You have used a lot of terms warm, flat, slightly veiled but the term I'd use is smooth sounding (and in all actuality that means to my feeble mind lacking in detail/brightness), why I mentioned I don't really do reviews because I have like a total new base on terminology! People especially newbies get confused enough around here so I tend to not want to addd to that for anyone I've caught a few of your Amazon reviews and I could never explain what I hear as well as you so I just put my $0.02 in around here now and then and hope I'm close to what some others hear. My true signature is a brighter more detailed signature generally at lower volumes than most I believe Oh yeah, that is a great John Williams piece, my late little brother was a major Williams fan, he was really into the Jurassic Park stuff before he passed and I pretty much put the theme song on every card I own because it reminds me so much of him



Sorry about your brother, Podster. Memory keeps part of him with you. 

I only learned how to describe things because my collection kept growing and eventually I could pick out the slight nuances. Like most people, I'm a bit of a sponge when it comes to learning about something that holds my interest. I started out enjoying a warm and full-bodied sound. Now I seek out micro-detail and vivid vocals/midrange with that full-bodied bass. It's no wonder that the ZS6 is the perfect fit because it nails said sound signature.


----------



## Willber

RvTrav said:


> I have the UiiSii CM5 and believe it meets the criteria you are looking for. Gearbest has them for $26.65 Canadian .


These looked interesting so I did a bit of research and ordered some from Amazon.UK for £14 with delivery next week.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Hi, I wish to buy some foam tips for an incoming KZ ZS6,
is the inner size of the tips 4,9 - 5mm ?


----------



## stmiller

Anyone know where i can order the now discontinued green ZS6?


----------



## oyobass

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I wish to buy some foam tips for an incoming KZ ZS6,
> is the inner size of the tips 4,9 - 5mm ?


I use the 4.9 to 5 foam tips on my ZS6 with no problem, but some people have reported that the tips will remain in their ears when removing the IEM.
The reason I have no problem could be that even the large foam tips turned backwards I only get an adequate seal, so my ears don't "grip" the tip as well as other people's...


----------



## DocHoliday

stmiller said:


> Anyone know where i can order the now discontinued green ZS6?



Almost impossible to find now, but I bet some seller has a box or two tucked behind newer stock. You might check by contacting sellers with lower sales volumes. Maybe you'll get lucky.


----------



## stmiller

DocHoliday said:


> Almost impossible to find now, but I bet some seller has a box or two tucked behind newer stock. You might check by contacting sellers with lower sales volumes. Maybe you'll get lucky.



Thanks for the suggestion. I'll scour Ali some more.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 25, 2018)

stmiller said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I'll scour Ali some more.



Early bird gets the worm. If you want a pair in green I'd PM groucho69 right away. Apparently, others are interested. 



groucho69 said:


> I could be talked out of mine for the right price. Let the games begin!


----------



## Podster

Appreciate the kind words Doc, love those beautiful Andr..................................err ZS6's KZ should be forced to write Blatant 10,000 times on the blackboard LOL

Going to order the Pewter's and that sweet Blk & Wht silver cable for them to add to my balanced collection, looking forward to hearing the ZS6 in balanced Doing a little single ended at the moment though





Car-Rap, keep forgetting I'm in the KZ thread!! Here you go


----------



## Slater

Willber said:


> These looked interesting so I did a bit of research and ordered some from Amazon.UK for £14 with delivery next week.



Good choice - great IEM! I doubt you'll be dissapointed


----------



## bsoplinger

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I wish to buy some foam tips for an incoming KZ ZS6,
> is the inner size of the tips 4,9 - 5mm ?


If you go back to posts I've made concerning tips you'd see I complained that the standard T500 4.9mm tips stayed behind in my ears all the time, both sides, and even with the ZS5 I'd leave a tip behind occasionally. So I got T300 and T200 sizes (4mm and 4.5mm). Links in my posting and in Slater's posts about tips. Excellent seller who will even give you a mixture of say just M and L instead of the standard S, M and L if you just ask. Or color choices, again just ask. The seller also offers the other sizes in case you want foamies for other (like 3mm) IEMs.


----------



## WalterTorino

Slater said:


> Good choice - great IEM! I doubt you'll be dissapointed


Well, I'm also interested. But one question - comparing to zs6 are they have more LF/bass?


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 25, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> If you go back to posts I've made concerning tips you'd see I complained that the standard T500 4.9mm tips stayed behind in my ears all the time, both sides, and even with the ZS5 I'd leave a tip behind occasionally. So I got T300 and T200 sizes (4mm and 4.5mm). Links in my posting and in Slater's posts about tips. Excellent seller who will even give you a mixture of say just M and L instead of the standard S, M and L if you just ask. Or color choices, again just ask. The seller also offers the other sizes in case you want foamies for other (like 3mm) IEMs.


T400 from QKZ (easy to find on Ali) is very good for me. Low price/nice quality. Recommend. And (important thing) they do not stay in my ears!


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Appreciate the kind words Doc, love those beautiful Andr..................................err ZS6's KZ should be forced to write Blatant 10,000 times on the blackboard LOL
> 
> Going to order the Pewter's and that sweet Blk & Wht silver cable for them to add to my balanced collection, looking forward to hearing the ZS6 in balanced Doing a little single ended at the moment though
> 
> ...



Curious to hear your thoughts on balanced vs SE..

...and are those the Sendiy's that clearhead recommended last year?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Huh T500 ali foamies stay on my zs5 and zst just fine.


----------



## spyder25000

Got my ZSR's. What foam tips have you guys put on, i need to order some and not sure on sizing (5mm vs 4.9)


----------



## HungryPanda

Just silicone on mine, tried different types and settled on these


----------



## alex5908

stmiller said:


> Anyone know where i can order the now discontinued green ZS6?


What's so attractive about those? Are they any better than that of other colors? Or is it just the color preference?


----------



## bsoplinger

alex5908 said:


> What's so attractive about those? Are they any better than that of other colors? Or is it just the color preference?


They look like the $1000 IEMs that KZ copied the design from. Or just a color preference.


----------



## NeonHD

DocHoliday said:


> Much appreciated, Neon. It's turned out to be a decent catalogue for early KZ's, though B9's "Contraptionist" is the more complete resource.


Yeah I've been checking out his new blog recently, particularly his reviews on the TFZ brand.


----------



## DocHoliday

alex5908 said:


> What's so attractive about those? Are they any better than that of other colors? Or is it just the color preference?



The photo doesn't do them justice . Emerald Green in the satin finish is hot buttered popcorn all day and all night. Here's another photo that shows the satin sheen.


----------



## MasterDomino (Jan 26, 2018)

Soo addressing my last post here, i got my zs3 and es3, time to say something about them, its not a review cuz i don't do those. Right from the start i guess i cant manage to sit my zs3 properly in my ear therefore es3 is more comfortable, es3 has more treble than zs3, zs3 has more punchy bass and is generally more fitted to what i like, but i also like high tones in es3. Im waiting now for special edition on ZST Dream and i will try to get it as they seem simmilar to es3 if it comes to shape etc. Soo they might fit my ears more, also i like the cable on zs3 more than es3.


----------



## stmiller

alex5908 said:


> What's so attractive about those? Are they any better than that of other colors? Or is it just the color preference?



Just colour preference. I'm looking to get all four colours.


----------



## stmiller

DocHoliday said:


> The photo doesn't do them justice . Emerald Green in the satin finish is hot buttered popcorn all day and all night. Here's another photo that shows the satin sheen.



Stop teasing doc


----------



## stmiller

WalterTorino said:


> T400 from QKZ (easy to find on Ali) is very good for me. Low price/nice quality. Recommend. And (important thing) they do not stay in my ears!



I can attest to these foamies. Got them during 11.11, they tamed the ZS6 highs and stay fixed to the iem nozzles, plus they look nice..

Downsides.. gets a bit smeared as you continue using them, no inbuilt wax guard like you see with complys and some Chinese foam tips which also help with hot treble.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 26, 2018)

stmiller said:


> Stop teasing doc



I know,  right! 

...ain't it awful, LOL



I'm just imagining these in a white satin finish with brass screws, brass mesh under the faceplate vents and this tri-braided cable. 

Why do I torture myself?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

hydroid said:


> Got my ZSR yesterday and all my excitement turned into disappointment after listening to them. OOTB, it sounds very bright and piercing to my ears. Initially thought that the ZST is a lot better because the highs are just right and not overly-presented. I'm happy with the bass though since it has the ZS3's bass quantity, IMO.
> 
> Then, I decided to do some mod by cutting 4 tiny pieces of earbud foam (1mm by 1mm size) and stuffed them on all the BA's nozzle. Bigger than 1mm sounds muffled/veiled to me. Left the ZSR playing the pink noise the whole night and Voila, I must say the mod made a huge difference. It tamed the highs, not sibilant anymore and at the same time maintained the sparkle/details at least same as the ZST's or even better I guess.,
> 
> ...



Question for you:
Did the ZSR scale well with your Aune DAP? Was the presentation slightly warmer (attenuating some of the highs)?


----------



## WalterTorino

stmiller said:


> I can attest to these foamies. Got them during 11.11, they tamed the ZS6 highs and stay fixed to the iem nozzles, plus they look nice..
> 
> Downsides.. gets a bit smeared as you continue using them, no inbuilt wax guard like you see with complys and some Chinese foam tips which also help with hot treble.


Yep, agree


----------



## hydroid (Feb 6, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Questions for you:
> Did the ZSR scale well with your Aune DAP? Was the presentation slightly warmer (attenuating some of the highs)?



Aune dap is leaning towards from neutral to bright sound signature. So the zsr still sounds brighter. However, in my zishan z1 dap with muses02 opamp, it sounds warmer. I guess the zsr will sound great with warmer sounding DAP.


----------



## Podster (Jan 26, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Curious to hear your thoughts on balanced vs SE..
> 
> ...and are those the Sendiy's that clearhead recommended last year?



This takes me back to the exchange between Sheriff Bart and the Waco kid when they both answer "I must; I must" So outside of the obvious know fact that Balanced has a better energy flow my feeble mind is convinced (seems it's not hard to do) that with the balanced I get a better cohesiveness across the ranges and that I hear (like the imaginary trumpets) full extension and closer to the edges of each start and cutoff. Once again this is just my opinion and I could very well be as full of you know what as a Christmas Turkey I also run balanced on all my home gears where balanced connectivity is allowed

Indeed those are Clear's prized Sendiy M1221's and at first I was not blown away even getting mine for $99 but with a bunch of tip rolling I stumble onto a pair (not even sure what kind I have on them or from wince they came) but now I'm getting a great fit and seal therefore a great payoff, they give my P1/PX's a real run for the money and actually have just a little better treble/Mid presence.

Running TMC balanced between my pre's and power





Dag Nabbit, forgot where I was again speaking of the lovely Tri-Braid (Which works well Aesthetically with all four colors)


----------



## HungryPanda

snap


----------



## alex5908 (Jan 26, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> They look like the $1000 IEMs that KZ copied the design from. Or just a color preference.


I have them. Could sell them if planned to buy something new. But I live in Canada and the delivery will be the same price as that of the IEMs. If not even more.


----------



## Wiljen

DocHoliday said:


> I know,  right!
> 
> ...ain't it awful, LOL
> 
> ...



Now imagine exactly the same picture with the cable being green as grass.   That is what mine looks like in less than 3 months from purchase.


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> … Dag Nabbit, forgot where I was again speaking of the lovely Tri-Braid (Which works well Aesthetically with all four colors)…





HungryPanda said:


> snap


If I actually took pictures I could add my pair to the set although there's a 2.5mm balanced plug on the end of mine. When I was buying a few other DIY bits I went looking for an inexpensive MMCX balanced cable. About $25 was the cheapest I could find. I remembered that I was quite pleased with the 4 braid KZ upgrade cable and that they made it with MMCX connectors also. Long story short, after buying a MMCX and an additional KZ 2 pin along with 2 nice 2.5mm TRRS jacks, less than 20 minutes and a soldering iron I had 2 balanced cables for under $25. About half of that 20 minutes was spent scouring the web for the proper wiring for the 2.5mm balanced connector. I learned that the 3.5mm balanced connector on my HiFiMan IEMs is wired differently so I'll need a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm balanced adapter. Why could the industry not agree on the wiring? And the size for that matter since I learned there's a 4.4mm balanced size too.


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> LOL, you have a point @bsoplinger but that just sounded so cruel In their defense as with the Dasterdly Beats and Blose they do put out sound
> 
> MHO is both Slater and the Doc have given a pretty good description of the K4's and size, fit and finish for 20 bones are top notch, little lacking in clarity and what I call mobile midrange they can hold their own at $20 with other V-shaped iem's and some a little more expensive As cheap as they are almost everyone who looks at them compliments their look
> 
> ...



Can confirm. I generally use the K4's with my Benjie S5. It's one of my favourite travel combinations, along with the KZ ATE (see what I did here to keep things on topic?). Both are small and sound great toghether.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> This takes me back to the exchange between Sheriff Bart and the Waco kid when they both answer "I must; I must" So outside of the obvious know fact that Balanced has a better energy flow my feeble mind is convinced (seems it's not hard to do) that with the balanced I get a better cohesiveness across the ranges and that I hear (like the imaginary trumpets) full extension and closer to the edges of each start and cutoff. Once again this is just my opinion and I could very well be as full of you know what as a Christmas Turkey I also run balanced on all my home gears where balanced connectivity is allowed
> 
> Indeed those are Clear's prized Sendiy M1221's and at first I was not blown away even getting mine for $99 but with a bunch of tip rolling I stumble onto a pair (not even sure what kind I have on them or from wince they came) but now I'm getting a great fit and seal therefore a great payoff, they give my P1/PX's a real run for the money and actually have just a little better treble/Mid presence.
> 
> ...



I have to tell you that I literally guffawed and cracked up when reading your last post. I thought I was the only person on the planet that exclaimed "dang nabbit". Cracked me right up to actually see it in writing.


----------



## Mellowship

Wiljen said:


> Now imagine exactly the same picture with the cable being green as grass.   That is what mine looks like in less than 3 months from purchase.


Mine is green too.  
Think I'll stick with the KZ's braided gray cable... no more silver with clear coating for me.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 26, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Now imagine exactly the same picture with the cable being green as grass.   That is what mine looks like in less than 3 months from purchase.



aaaaaaand we're back to reality. Thanks for that Wiljen. 

Yeah, this lover'ly photo was taken three months ago, but my cable is "green with envy" (shameless quip I know,.....so point at me and whisper bad things under your breath starting in...3....2....1....NOW) because my other cables are fully dressed in modest apparel (black sheathing), but my tri-braid cable is shamelessly streaking through the house like a 6 month old that's blissfully unaware that the diaper fell off........again.


----------



## Wiljen

Sad as they are great looking cables when new but obviously not designed to exclude Oxygen as they start turning green about as quick as the pack is opened.  I had even wondered about buying one and dropping it in bucket of plasti-dip or shellac to see if you could seal it.


----------



## DocHoliday

bsoplinger said:


> If I actually took pictures I could add my pair to the set although there's a 2.5mm balanced plug on the end of mine. When I was buying a few other DIY bits I went looking for an inexpensive MMCX balanced cable. About $25 was the cheapest I could find. I remembered that I was quite pleased with the 4 braid KZ upgrade cable and that they made it with MMCX connectors also. Long story short, after buying a MMCX and an additional KZ 2 pin along with 2 nice 2.5mm TRRS jacks, less than 20 minutes and a soldering iron I had 2 balanced cables for under $25. About half of that 20 minutes was spent scouring the web for the proper wiring for the 2.5mm balanced connector. I learned that the 3.5mm balanced connector on my HiFiMan IEMs is wired differently so I'll need a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm balanced adapter. Why could the industry not agree on the wiring? And the size for that matter since I learned there's a 4.4mm balanced size too.



Rumor is that the industry may be moving toward 4.4 balanced because the 2 5mm has a reputation of snapping due to the thinness of the TRRS pin. 

.........just a rumor though.


----------



## Wiljen

DocHoliday said:


> Rumor is that the industry may be moving toward 4.4 balanced because the 2 5mm has a reputation of snapping due to the thinness of the TRRS pin.
> 
> .........just a rumor though.



That one has floated a couple times before and never seems to gain much traction as the real estate the  4.4 takes up is so much larger than the 2.5 it would require a redesign of a ton of boards and devices to fit.


----------



## WalterTorino

Can somebody tell me please, how sennheiser ie80 sounds comparing to zs6? Some pros and cons? I haven't such possibility to listen to ie80 but it looks pretty good for me to make myself a present for BD. I want to find universal IEMs with good bass, crisp mid and high, and about $100-150 price. 
I love everything in my zs6 exept bass (want more lows).


----------



## alota

My KZ family with comply tips


----------



## themindfreak

WalterTorino said:


> Can somebody tell me please, how sennheiser ie80 sounds comparing to zs6? Some pros and cons? I haven't such possibility to listen to ie80 but it looks pretty good for me to make myself a present for BD. I want to find universal IEMs with good bass, crisp mid and high, and about $100-150 price.
> I love everything in my zs6 exept bass (want more lows).


I dont own the ZS6 but I can give a brief description of the ie80 from memory and my notes I had taken down last time. Bass is very deep and powerful but the mids are not engaging enough for my preference and aren't that crisp, treble has a slight boost with a very typical 'fake' dynamic airy feel. The 1 very unique thing about the ie80 sound is its soundstage. It sounds very hollow and wide. It has very good "depth". The vocals on the ie80 are its weakest point I feel and the details are just meh or acceptable. Im quite sure zs6 is brighter and the mids might be on the same level tbh idk, all this speculation are from all the readings in this thread and information collection.


----------



## HiFiChris

stmiller said:


> Stop teasing doc






Spoiler


----------



## zhuoyang

does the kz bluetooth cable really supports aptx ? couldn't seems to get it to work.


----------



## Podster

HiFiChris said:


> Spoiler



LOL, pure Evil Chris

@DocHoliday , always happy to bring a smile to someone's face Doc or even make them spit their drink onto their keyboard or monitor


----------



## khighly

Xiaomi Triple Drivers are not worth $100. Seems like more went into packaging than anything else.

KZ ZS5v1 is like fresh air. It's my favorite IEM still. I'm babying them.


----------



## Jack-A

To me the ZSR soundstage seems to be wider than ZS6. The treble is not that harsh but it's still pretty sibilant. I modified my ZS6 and closed one BA driver on each side. The vocals are more life like on ZS6. They're also more comfortable to wear. ZSR is also good but gets painful quickly when I wear a hat that covers my ears and puts pressure on them(winter here after all). It's the pointy "tail" next to the connector that causes the pain.  ZS6 fit is best of them all, they just stay in my ears perfectly when using comply tips.


----------



## paulindss

Jack-A said:


> To me the ZSR soundstage seems to be wider than ZS6. The treble is not that harsh but it's still pretty sibilant. I modified my ZS6 and closed one BA driver on each side. The vocals are more life like on ZS6. They're also more comfortable to wear. ZSR is also good but gets painful quickly when I wear a hat that covers my ears and puts pressure on them(winter here after all). It's the pointy "tail" next to the connector that causes the pain.  ZS6 fit is best of them all, they just stay in my ears perfectly when using comply tips.



What do you sealed the ba with ? And can you Tell me what exactly signature you get with that. After moding my zst, maybe i can take courage to take a zs6 and eventualy mod in the Future. The red are gorgeous.


----------



## riffrafff

So, all these KZ silver-plated cables are turning green (mine haven't, but I just got them).  Since silver turns grey when it oxidizes, I assume these cable are poorly plated?  The only thing that explains the green color would be verdigris of the copper wire.


----------



## Mellowship

These came in today. Already modding! No more green cable.


----------



## Wiljen (Jan 26, 2018)

Well, I am going to update my impressions of the Kz Zsr a bit.   I have been doing a series of A/B tests with the Zst, Zs5(vi),Zs6, and Zsr.   I had started on them and then took a few days off with the flu as I couldn't listen without everything sounding like I was in a pit.

1.)  The Zsr is still typical of the Kz house sound in that they have big bass and big treble.     Not as big on the treble as Zs5 or 6 but still above neutral by a quite a bit.
2.) The Zsr has the same bass as the Zs3 and are capable of delivering a performance most bassheads will like.
3.) The Zsr has better mids than the Zst.  Particularly lower mids.    The Zsr gets thinner as you go through the mids toward the treble. At first, I thought the entire midrange was recessed but really the thinning of the upper mids makes it appear so even though the lower mids are more present than the Zst and maybe slightly forward of where they are in the Zs5 and 6.
4.) There is definitely bass bleed into the mids that colors and somewhat obscures the mids.  Tracks with a light bass make a good reference for what the mids can be without that bass coloration.


----------



## Mellowship

Done. The grey cable looks great!


----------



## stryed

I lost my KZ5 at the bar...Luckily, I have second unused one pair in the drawer. No sibilance so there's really brain burn more so than anything physical going on with the airphones.

I'm a bit worried I will lose these guys too...I really like these for their soundstage and am wondering about the KZ6.


Mellowship said:


> Done. The grey cable looks great!


What are those? They look nice (the IEMs). 
That cable is already in my basket=)


----------



## Mellowship

stryed said:


> I lost my KZ5 at the bar...Luckily, I have second unused one pair in the drawer. No sibilance so there's really brain burn more so than anything physical going on with the airphones.
> 
> I'm a bit worried I will lose these guys too...I really like these for their soundstage and am wondering about the KZ6.
> 
> ...


Thanks. These are the old ZS3, but with different mesh and some very large tips from the Rock Zyrcon.


----------



## Lord Rexter

My KZ ZST collection


----------



## Slater (Jan 26, 2018)

Jack-A said:


> To me the ZSR soundstage seems to be wider than ZS6. The treble is not that harsh but it's still pretty sibilant. I modified my ZS6 and closed one BA driver on each side. The vocals are more life like on ZS6. They're also more comfortable to wear. ZSR is also good but gets painful quickly when I wear a hat that covers my ears and puts pressure on them(winter here after all). It's the pointy "tail" next to the connector that causes the pain.  ZS6 fit is best of them all, they just stay in my ears perfectly when using comply tips.



Are both BAs the same on the ZSR?

I know on the ZS5 v1, KZ used (1) high freq BA and (1) ultra high freq BA, but on the ZS5 v2 and ZS6 they switched to (2) ultra high freq BA.

I am not sure what configuration the individual BAs are on the ZSR yet (other than we know it has 2 BAs per nozzle).

If it DOES happen to have unique BAs per nozzle (like the ZS5 v1), then there is a risk of disabling the wrong BA driver (or disabling the wrong one on 1 side only).

Anyone know?


----------



## Slater

Lord Rexter said:


> My KZ ZST collection



Love the wings


----------



## Lord Rexter

Slater said:


> Love the wings


Thank you, Sir


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

Lord Rexter said:


> My KZ ZST collection



Those Joker inspired ZST's would fit my collection just fine coupled with my Star-tipped KZ silicone eartips.


----------



## goodvibes

riffrafff said:


> So, all these KZ silver-plated cables are turning green (mine haven't, but I just got them).  Since silver turns grey when it oxidizes, I assume these cable are poorly plated?  The only thing that explains the green color would be verdigris of the copper wire.


If it's actually silver plated as opposed to some silver alloy, it would mean that the standard copper underneath has enough oxygen in it to corrode through the very thin plating and then it's off to the races. The Grey OCC copper and silver plated upgrade cable sounds better and should hold up. They are much more specific about its construction.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...0729-459f-a2df-0f983da4ef9f&priceBeautifyAB=3


----------



## DocHoliday

From yo





Wiljen said:


> Well, I am going to update my impressions of the Kz Zsr a bit.   I have been doing a series of A/B tests with the Zst, Zs5(vi),Zs6, and Zsr.   I had started on them and then took a few days off with the flu as I couldn't listen without everything sounding like I was in a pit.
> 
> 1.)  The Zsr is still typical of the Kz house sound in that they have big bass and big treble.     Not as big on the treble as Zs5 or 6 but still above neutral by a quite a bit.
> 2.) The Zsr has the same bass as the Zs3 and are capable of delivering a performance most bassheads will like.
> ...



According to your description it sounds as though the ZSR sits directly between the ES3 and the ZS6, which makes sense since they share the 10mm DD and probably one of the BA receivers. This is great news to me because I love the ZS6 and the ES3 is a lot of fun.

Appreciate your info
Thanks


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 6, 2018)

HiFiChris said:


> Spoiler


pro photos, pure art, the shells are dancing.. i love green zs6's look.


for those concerned about green cables:
if you like silver color and are worried about greenization, you can try it, for about $2 more than the other silver plated clear cables.


----------



## khighly

Can anyone recommend me a ~$100 IEM that's going to beat my KZ ZS5? The 1More Triple's didn't cut it.


----------



## Wiljen

DocHoliday said:


> From yo
> 
> According to your description it sounds as though the ZSR sits directly between the ES3 and the ZS6, which makes sense since they share the 10mm DD and probably one of the BA receivers. This is great news to me because I love the ZS6 and the ES3 is a lot of fun.
> 
> ...



Not a bad description at all split the difference in es3 and Zs6.   
more mids than es3
more bass then Zs6
highs are a bit more strident than es3
control is a bit less than Zs6   (bass is bigger but looser)


----------



## HungryPanda

khighly said:


> Can anyone recommend me a ~$100 IEM that's going to beat my KZ ZS5? The 1More Triple's didn't cut it.


Pioneer CH9T or Rythmos Super SD7


----------



## stryed

HungryPanda said:


> Pioneer CH9T or Rythmos Super SD7





khighly said:


> Can anyone recommend me a ~$100 IEM that's going to beat my KZ ZS5? The 1More Triple's didn't cut it.



IT01 or the pioneer CH9T or fiio FH1 perhaps. They play the same game.


----------



## hakuzen

Wiljen said:


> Not a bad description at all split the difference in es3 and Zs6.
> more mids than es3
> more bass then Zs6
> highs are a bit more strident than es3
> control is a bit less than Zs6   (bass is bigger but looser)


when removing or cutting some of the foam around the BA in es3 (like in zs3 mod), you get more mids (from the dynamic driver).


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Jan 26, 2018)

Gearbest is breaking shipping records

This took 11 weeks to get here.  11 WEEKS.  I bought these on the 11/11 sale.  Just checked and they are ZS5 v2, so I now have a v1 and v2.



Spoiler





















Definitely a bit more sizzle in the treble.  Midrange doesn't really seem at lively as my v1.  Will test with some foam tips later.  I was honestly expecting a lot worse after reading the impressions here.  There's still a nice amount of bass and the crazy instrument seperation that the ZS5 is known for, just with cymbals and similar instruments more prominent than the v1.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I need a bit more head time but it seems like aliexpress T400 foam tips fixed everything for me.






A more noticeable sound change this time around than when I went from starlines to the foamies with the ZS5 v1.


----------



## Slater (Jan 26, 2018)

goodvibes said:


> If it's actually silver plated as opposed to some silver alloy, it would mean that the standard copper underneath has enough oxygen in it to corrode through the very thin plating and then it's off to the races. The Grey OCC copper and silver plated upgrade cable sounds better and should hold up. They are much more specific about its construction.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...0729-459f-a2df-0f983da4ef9f&priceBeautifyAB=3



It may also be tin. Some of the "silver plated" cables we see now are simply tin plated (in other words, no actual silver involved). Companies can get away with it legally, because "silver" can refer to the COLOR not the PHYSICAL MATERIAL.

Will the ones that do this admit it? No. Are all "silver plated" cables tin plated? Of course not.


----------



## Slater (Jan 26, 2018)

Slater said:


> Are both BAs the same on the ZSR?
> 
> I know on the ZS5 v1, KZ used (1) high freq BA and (1) ultra high freq BA, but on the ZS5 v2 and ZS6 they switched to (2) ultra high freq BA.
> 
> ...



Update on this. I carefully checked the ZSR tonight with a flashlight and a jeweler's loupe, and ONE BA is definitely the KZ 30095 BA driver. The other one is turned the other way so you can't see the part number. So it's still unknown what type the 2nd BA driver is (high freq or ultra high freq).

Here's something else interesting. When I was playing with the flashlight trying to read the BA driver, I noticed the nozzle screen is unlike any KZ has used in the past. It's actually a 2-part setup. On the bottom (ie directly above the BA drivers) is a metal plate with holes, similar to the nozzle cover on the ZS6. On top of that is a standard stainless mesh screen. You can only see the metal disc with holes by shining a flashlight against the nozzle.

I don't know how the disc affects what frequency (vs the nozzle screen), but it's still interesting nonetheless (and shows intentional tuning). That doesn't mean the ZSR can't be modded (ie BA foam mod, removing the disc with holes, removing the stainless mesh, foam in the nozzle, teabag cloth, vent holes, etc).

Here's a photo of what I'm talking about - here you can see the metal disc with holes (click for larger view):


----------



## Wiljen

First person who has one go south should crack that puppy open and take pics.


----------



## hydroid

Slater said:


> Update on this. I carefully checked the ZSR tonight with a flashlight and a jeweler's loupe, and ONE BA is definitely the KZ 30095 BA driver. The other one is turned the other way so you can't see the part number. So it's still unknown what type the 2nd BA driver is (high freq or ultra high freq).
> 
> Here's something else interesting. When I was playing with the flashlight trying to read the BA driver, I noticed the nozzle screen is unlike any KZ has used in the past. It's actually a 2-part setup. On the bottom (ie directly above the BA drivers) is a metal plate with holes, similar to the nozzle cover on the ZS6. On top of that is a standard stainless mesh screen. You can only see the metal disc with holes by shining a flashlight against the nozzle.
> 
> ...



Yeah there's a metal disc and attached to it is some sort of fabric mesh almost similar material used in zs3 (the red colored mesh).


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 26, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Not a bad description at all split the difference in es3 and Zs6.
> more mids than es3
> more bass then Zs6
> highs are a bit more strident than es3
> control is a bit less than Zs6   (bass is bigger but looser)



I've no problem with the treble of the ZS6 or ZST, so I'm good there.  Check 
More midrange than the ES3 is a good thing.  Check 
Big bad bass is more fun for EDM.  Check 
It all checks out for me.
One of each color sounds about right, though the red seems questionable. They should have gone with the translucent red that they used for the ED12 right earpiece. I won't cast final judgement until it arrives but I'm not crazy about their choice of color there.


----------



## stryed (Jan 26, 2018)

Hopefully, the KZR is a trend towards comfort. It took a while to get used to the KZ5 ergonomics for me. So much so I almost gave up  after 2 weeks. It turns out that ears have pretty flexible & adaptable tissues. They're comfy now!
Soundwise, I'm not sold on the KZR...Would prefer a well built KZ6.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 26, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> 1.)  The Zsr is still typical of the Kz house sound in that they have big bass and big treble.     Not as big on the treble as Zs5 or 6 but still above neutral by a quite a bit.
> 2.) The Zsr has the same bass as the Zs3 and are capable of delivering a performance most bassheads will like.
> 3.) The Zsr has better mids than the Zst.  Particularly lower mids.    The Zsr gets thinner as you go through the mids toward the treble. At first, I thought the entire midrange was recessed but really the thinning of the upper mids makes it appear so even though the lower mids are more present than the Zst and maybe slightly forward of where they are in the Zs5 and 6.
> 4.) There is definitely bass bleed into the mids that colors and somewhat obscures the mids.  Tracks with a light bass make a good reference for what the mids can be without that bass coloration.



Also, this description makes me think I got my long-term wish, which was to get a more refined presentation of the HDS3.  If that is the case then I might have to buy them dinner before I take them home. 





I suspected that the reason that KZ went with the slightly bulbous faceplates is to give the ZSR more air. Your description that they thin out as they climb the register tells me they are indeed tuned to improve on and mimic the HDS3's near holographic soundstage. If this is true then I'd like to shake someone's hand over at KZ. The HDS3 wasn't for everyone. Some just didn't warm to their tuning, but it remained one of my top five KZ's because I grabbed it more often than not (prior too the arrival of the ZS3 and ZST).


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Can anyone recommend me a ~$100 IEM that's going to beat my KZ ZS5? The 1More Triple's didn't cut it.





HungryPanda said:


> Pioneer CH9T or Rythmos Super SD7





stryed said:


> IT01 or the pioneer CH9T or fiio FH1 perhaps. They play the same game.



+1 on the Pioneer CH9T


----------



## Slater

stryed said:


> Hopefully, the KZR is a trend towards comfort. It took a while to get used to the KZ5 ergonomics for me. So much so I almost gave up  after 2 weeks. It turns out that ears have pretty flexible & adaptable tissues. They're comfy now!
> Soundwise, I'm not sold on the KZR...Would prefer a well built KZ6.



So your ears look like this now?


----------



## hydroid (Jan 26, 2018)

Slater said:


> +1 on the Pioneer CH9T



I ended up selling my ch9t the moment I received my it01. Had compared them side by side and decided to keep the it01 as it has more bass but not overwhelming. The subbass of it01 rumbles deep without overshadowing the mids and highs. Detail reproduction of the it01 is very impressive plus the cable that comes with it looks really nice. It all boils down to personal preference I guess..


----------



## williamclarkonet

Just tried the kz silver wire cable on my kz ZS3 and i think it makes a small but notable difference, the bass is a little stronger and the mids and highs are a little more crisp i think the upgrade is worth the money but don't expect a world of difference


----------



## Slater

hydroid said:


> I ended up selling my ch9t the moment I received my it01. Had compared them side by side and decided to keep the it01 as it has more bass but not overwhelming. The subbass of it01 rumbles without overshadowing the mids and highs. Detail reproduction of the it01 is very impressive plus the cable that comes to it looks really nice. It all boils down to personal preference I guess..



Yeah, I've been eyeing the IT01. My plan is to treat myself next time it's on sale (11.11, black friday, etc).


----------



## hydroid

Slater said:


> Yeah, I've been eyeing the IT01. My plan is to treat myself next time it's on sale (11.11, black friday, etc).



Will also be waiting on sale to get another set. I have the black color and would like to add to my collection the Red & blue ones..


----------



## Slater

hydroid said:


> Will also be waiting on sale to get another set. I have the black color and would like to add to my collection the Red & blue ones..



Has it been on sale yet? Or has it always been ~$100 so far?


----------



## HraD2

zhuoyang said:


> does the kz bluetooth cable really supports aptx ? couldn't seems to get it to work.


Stock kz - no, Pizen BT66 - yes


----------



## hydroid

Slater said:


> Has it been on sale yet? Or has it always been ~$100 so far?



The price at Penon is still $109 with DHL shipping.


----------



## HiFiChris

khighly said:


> *Xiaomi Triple Drivers are not worth $100.* Seems like more went into packaging than anything else.



Thank you! Finally someone who shares my opinion on the E1001 Triple-Driver.


----------



## Slater

HiFiChris said:


> Thank you! Finally someone who shares my opinion on the E1001 Triple-Driver.



Add me to that list. Was never impressed. Way overpriced for the sound.


----------



## DocHoliday

khighly said:


> Can anyone recommend me a ~$100 IEM that's going to beat my KZ ZS5? The 1More Triple's didn't cut it.



I suspected that this was the case with the 1More triple all along. Glad I didn't take the bait, but I came veeeeeery close.

Thanks for the final verdict.


----------



## HraD2

My favorite foam, esp. for zs5v1, much more bass and less terrible highs. For 3mm nozzle


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Wow that's an awfully small opening for the ZS5 lol.  The 4.9mm T400/500 tips have been working wonderfully for me.


----------



## goodvibes

Slater said:


> It may also be tin. Some of the "silver plated" cables we see now are simply tin plated (in other words, no actual silver involved). Companies can get away with it legally, because "silver" can refer to the COLOR not the PHYSICAL MATERIAL.
> 
> Will the ones that do this admit it? No. Are all "silver plated" cables tin plated? Of course not.


Thing is, one purpose of tinned wire is to prevent that sort of corrosion. Neither tin nor silver will turn green. The alloys or pure forms go gray to black. The ones turning green could just be a bad batch or symptomatic of the cable. It's too early to know but they shouldn't do this even if tinned or low silver content alloy plated.


----------



## HraD2

SomeTechNoob said:


> Wow that's an awfully small opening for the ZS5 lol.  The 4.9mm T400/500 tips have been working wonderfully for me.


Try T100 and you see (hear) the difference )


----------



## Lord Rexter (Jan 27, 2018)

khighly said:


> Can anyone recommend me a ~$100 IEM that's going to beat my KZ ZS5? The 1More Triple's didn't cut it.


If you want to try Planar IEM (they are full size) then check Monoprice Monolith M300 there's a sale going on right now may be a good choice.
https://slickdeals.net/f/11197815-m...0-w-masterpass-checkout?src=SiteSearchV2Algo1


----------



## SomeTechNoob

So here's my current verdict on the ZS5 v1 vs v2.

v1 reigns superior to my ears!  However, v2 is still respectable in its own right.

Foam tips are mandatory for v2.  I don't consider myself treble sensitive but the treble with the starlines was just pushing it over the edge.  ZS5 v2 have slightly weaker bass and midrange compared to v1.  If you have not heard v1 extensively, you likely will not notice that much of a difference after some mental burn in.
Instrumental separation is better on the v1 as well.  Maybe it's because of the different driver placement, but I just didn't find myself quite as "wow'd" with the v2 when compared to the v1.  Soundstage seems pretty wide for an IEM, and imaging is accurate.  Soundstage and imaging are about the same between v1 and v2.

So overall, I'd still recommend the ZS5 v2!  Just make sure you get a pair of T400 foamies to go with them.  If your ears can only handle up to HD650 levels of treble though, then maybe keep looking lol.

Preference for my current lineup:
ZS5 v1 > ZS5 v2 > ZST > MEMT X5 > CX98 > ED9 > ZS3 > Piston 3 > ATR > Piston Colorful/Basic/Youth > Bose SoundSport > Monk+ > JLab J4 (this is absolutely horrible lmao)

Guess I'll be done for awhile.  Initially got into chi-fi to get a bunch of cheap, decent sounding throwaway IEMs.  Now I have no idea what to do with some of these.


----------



## Comebackboy

Anybody tried the new ZSR? How does it compare to the ZS5 v1?


----------



## nxnje

I seriously can't understand why kz modified their zs5v1 while it was a great product.
I think that was just a marketing shot to put down the zs5 in order to make people buy the zs6.
In any case i bought a pair of memt x5, and with foam tips i find them really great, even better than the zs3.
I'm anyway rly curious to try the zs6 and the ate


----------



## rendyG

nxnje said:


> I seriously can't understand why kz modified their zs5v1 while it was a great product.
> I think that was just a marketing shot to put down the zs5 in order to make people buy the zs6.
> In any case i bought a pair of memt x5, and with foam tips i find them really great, even better than the zs3.
> I'm anyway rly curious to try the zs6 and the ate



I believe the main reason for releasing v2 was this guy, who made many people believe that the other drivers inside are fake, obviously without any proof. What a dumb***


----------



## Slater (Jan 27, 2018)

HraD2 said:


> My favorite foam, esp. for zs5v1, much more bass and less terrible highs. For 3mm nozzle



What's the trick to getting that small of a tip over the large nozzle of the ZS5? The foam tips don't stretch out as easily or stretch out as large as silicone eartips.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> I seriously can't understand why kz modified their zs5v1 while it was a great product.



That's what happens when online reviewers complain that "not all the drivers work", "some drivers are fake/for show", etc.


----------



## nxnje

Radek Jandl said:


> I believe the main reason for releasing v2 was this guy, who made many people believe that the other drivers inside are fake, obviously without any proof. What a dumb***




I don't know.. i think kz did what i'm thinking about
I mean, a video like that shouldn't worry a company like kz that can easily prove those worda are fake af.

Anyway, they should just keep producing the v1, as far as i can read they were a bit better than the v2.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> That's what happens when online reviewers complain that "not all the drivers work", "some drivers are fake/for show", etc.



I would not worry for a random guy saying some crap on a youtube video without any proof


----------



## rendyG

It wasn´t just him, I don´t know if he was the first or not, but many people in other videos, forums, reviews, started mentioning that.
And yes I believe KZ listens to feedback.


----------



## zozito

DocHoliday said:


> Thus far, seems like we share similar tastes and tolerances (treble sensitivity). Two questions regarding sound, Wyatt:
> 1) Your thoughts on the SE215 vs the ZST?
> 2) Your thoughts on the Klipsch S3M vs the HDS1?
> The HDS1 was much better than the Klipsch S3 Image, but I never picked up the S3M.
> ...


Offtopic, sorry...I have the same samsung player...I didn't use in years, I think, but I'll take it again!


----------



## skaktuss

Hello, everyone! Long time HF reader here. Been visiting  occasionally since mh1 hype started. Now I'm an everyday visitor and damn, all I can say - last 6 months have not been very healthy for my wallet, and one night I had a nightmare about  A.R. Rahman. 
Ok to the point. I want to share my KZ ZS5 DMGM (Doom Metal Ghetto Mod). I really liked my zs5 v1, but could not keep them in my ears longer than 10 minutes. All those sharp edges were killing me. (I have rather small ears for a 185cm guy). I really loved the ZS3 form factor, but ZS5 sound quality I loved even more. I bought the CI880 as a close competitor with a smaller shell size. But it's nowhere near the zs5 soundstage, bass quality and instrument separation wise. LSS - decided to make my ZS5 smoother. Not the best looking result, but believe me, the comfort is exceptional now.










I am not a native english speaker, sorry for my mistakes!


----------



## jaydm99 (Jan 27, 2018)

So according to hillsonicaudio, all of these are upcoming/planned IEM models from KZ for 2018. So apparently there will be a "less angular" ZS6 (with all the screws and grill) that will be released, but will probably be a part of the ZST/ZSR family cause it uses the same angled cable.


----------



## HraD2

Slater said:


> What's the trick to getting that small of a tip over the large nozzle of the ZS5? The foam tips don't stretch out as easily or stretch out as large as silicone eartips.


I got definitely better bass and not so much bright highs due to smaller out-hole. It really works.


----------



## stjimmyjos

Jay Magaling said:


> So according to hillsonicaudio, all of these are upcoming/planned IEM models from KZ for 2018. So apparently there will be a "less angular" ZS6 (with all the screws and grill) that will be released, but will probably be a part of the ZST/ZSR family cause it uses the same angled cable.


This red one on the right of zs6 v2 is probably ZS10


----------



## jaydm99

skaktuss said:


> Not the best looking result, but believe me, the comfort is exceptional now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you sanded it down or just applied a thick layer of paint over the original? I also now have a ZS5 in black but with a matte finish


----------



## Wiljen

stryed said:


> Hopefully, the KZR is a trend towards comfort. It took a while to get used to the KZ5 ergonomics for me. So much so I almost gave up  after 2 weeks. It turns out that ears have pretty flexible & adaptable tissues. They're comfy now!
> Soundwise, I'm not sold on the KZR...Would prefer a well built KZ6.



The Zsr is odd for me in that regard.  It is one of the more ergonomic shapes Kz has done, but the fit is not quite there for me and I have to fidget and adjust until i get it aligned just right or I get poked by the upper ear-hook component of the shell.  Hopefully it wont bother you, but be aware that it is not a universal fit.


----------



## Wiljen (Jan 27, 2018)

Jay Magaling said:


> So according to hillsonicaudio, all of these are upcoming/planned IEM models from KZ for 2018. So apparently there will be a "less angular" ZS6 (with all the screws and grill) that will be released, but will probably be a part of the ZST/ZSR family cause it uses the same angled cable.




ok so 2nd row  from top looks like  direct Aursonics/ Fender knock off in case design.   The one at the bottom right looks to be either a Fender or Jerry Harvey knock off.   The Layla would be an awful high aiming point for Kz.


----------



## C2thew

skaktuss said:


> Hello, everyone! Long time HF reader here. Been visiting  occasionally since mh1 hype started. Now I'm an everyday visitor and damn, all I can say - last 6 months have not been very healthy for my wallet, and one night I had a nightmare about  A.R. Rahman.
> Ok to the point. I want to share my KZ ZS5 DMGM (Doom Metal Ghetto Mod). I really liked my zs5 v1, but could not keep them in my ears longer than 10 minutes. All those sharp edges were killing me. (I have rather small ears for a 185cm guy). I really loved the ZS3 form factor, but ZS5 sound quality I loved even more. I bought the CI880 as a close competitor with a smaller shell size. But it's nowhere near the zs5 soundstage, bass quality and instrument separation wise. LSS - decided to make my ZS5 smoother. Not the best looking result, but believe me, the comfort is exceptional now.
> 
> 
> ...



Not sure exactly what you did. Did you transfer the drivers into a different shell or did you sand down the case on the zs5?


----------



## zozito

ivo001 said:


> Is the Samsung YP-Q1 considered a good mp3 player? Still have it laying around somewhere, but have ordered a Benjie S5b anyways lol


For radio, try to find something better...


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 27, 2018)

Hello everybody!
As someone said before - if you have a tips with smaller diameter, you'll get better sound - more lows, less highs. So I did a little bit research to make such thing from what I have cuz i don't want to spend money and then wait for a 10-15 days to buy T100 or T200.
Remember! Everything we do is at our own peril and shame.
Better lock the door, so Mummy and Daddy do not see what you're doing, little dirty audiophile.
Step one. We need:
 I have T400 foam. Useless tips are stock tips - I really hate 'em cuz they always stay in my ears, they sooo uncomfortable and they killed my brother (what.a.joke!).
Step two. Carnage!

Step three. A little bit of magic.

Step four. The most difficult.
I spent a lot of nerves and lot of "cyka blyat" on this action, my friends.
Sooo...

Step five. Optional.
Draw a little face on your finger and put another part of useless tip on it. Play with it.


So, what did it cost us:
1) a pair of absolutely useless tips;
2) about ten minutes of our precious time.
What we got:
NOTHING! THIS SH** IS USELESS!


Gotcha! Seriously, it helped me. There were more lows, and highs were smoothed out. I like it!

If it will help somebody i'll be happy. But I know that it is very simple way to try something new and everyone could do it themself. Nevertheless, maybe it could help someone.
From Russia with love


----------



## C2thew

^ nice DIY solution.  Definitely liked the captions that went with it as well.

Random question.  Does anyone's KZ ZS3's microphone button on the stock cable also increase/decrease the volume of the music when connected to your phone?  So you press the button (while attached to your phone), the music pauses but the volume also changes one stop as well.  I have a feeling I might need to open up my microphone section and find out what's going on.  My microphone also stopped working as well so I think I might have a defective microphone.  (microphone was working before but stopped working after 2-3 weeks ago)


----------



## groucho69

DocHoliday said:


> I suspected that this was the case with the 1More triple all along. Glad I didn't take the bait, but I came veeeeeery close.
> 
> Thanks for the final verdict.



Since I paid less than half that for mine I am satisfied.


----------



## Makahl

Does someone here know when KZ will release the ZSR in white and red options? Or are these exclusively to a specific market?


----------



## bsoplinger (Jan 27, 2018)

I have both the triple and IT01. I really can't get a decent fit with the 1more so I prefer the iBasso just for that reason. It needs tons of burn in time though, as in hundreds of hours. But it does sound very good once you get there. Personally I think that the midrange is recessed and distant but that could be a fitment problem. I need to spend some more time with them. And with the triples just to see if I can get a decent fit.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 27, 2018)

zozito said:


> Offtopic, sorry...I have the same samsung player...I didn't use in years, I think, but I'll take it again!



I mostly use mine for EDM and use the "Club" preset with an IEM that is somewhat neutral (little coloration). If you use an IEM that has enhanced bass it will be too much. Wolfson DAC's were well known for having a warm bent to their presentation, so they pair well with brighter IEMs. The IEMs you see the Q1 paired with are the KZ HDS1. Great pair-up!

At the time the iPod was ubiquitous and people just could not get their heads around the little Samsung's handicap. It just wasn't as fluid in accessing the music. The truth is that the little Samsung had the same handicap that every HiRes DAP has today, unless the HiRes DAP is based on an Android OS like the Fiio X5iii (you can use the Android OS or use Fiio's proprietary installed software). 

As I mentioned in that post the Samsung YP-Q1 has a Wolfson DAC installed, though I am unsure of the amplifier it is coupled with. But this tiny unassuming little DAP is a powerhouse. That's why you can only get eight hours of life at a time with it, typical of most HiRes DAPs today (Fiio, Cayin, Opus, etc.). Back when these were being sold  (2008-- 2009) everybody was buying iPods and little Fiio E6 amplifiers, but Samsung did an end run around everybody way back then by having the amplifiers preinstalled in their DAPs well before Fiio released their first X3. If you think about it, Fiio can no longer make the claim that they made the world's first HiRes DAP with the Fiio X3i. That honor really goes to Samsung for releasing the YP-K3 back in 2007. I had one of those, too and the little amplifier inside of the K3 made it stand apart from everything else being released at the time. I let a blonde chick borrow it and I never saw it again (dang nabbit) otherwise I would still have a little bit of history with me.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 27, 2018)

SomeTechNoob said:


> I need a bit more head time but it seems like aliexpress T400 foam tips fixed everything for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yet another testimony as to why tip-rolling is so very important and why we all should filter reviews we read through the following:

1) source the IEM was coupled to.
2) the reviewer's preferred sound signature 
3) eartips and ear anatomy can have a huge effect on the entire experience 

The more reviews there are for a particular IEM, the more we can ferret out the common thread to determine the overall pros and cons.

Someone once harmlessly quipped that my reviews seem to read like a novel because I always preface my review of the IEM with a lengthy explanation regarding eartips and preferences. It would have been several paragraphs longer if I had chimed in with the importance of the source being used. Nevertheless please note the following:

********************************

I tend to prefer a relatively neutral sound signature with a slight emphasis in both bass and treble, which is basically a mild "V" shaped sound signature. I find that an absolute neutral sound signature usually lacks enough energy for the genres I enjoy most, which are Classic Trance and Progressive (early Tiesto, Markus Schulz, Otello, DT8 Project), Chill Out, Breakbeat (Hybrid & Burufunk Remixes) and 80's & 90's (New Order, Secession, The Cure, Siouxie & The Banshees, Depeche Mode). Sure I listen to Shania Twain, Sade, Bach, Ella Fitzgerald and everything in between, but as of late the bulk of my listening pleasure is focused on the aforementioned genres.

Take note when you read IEM reviews that when the reviewer gives his/her opinion regarding the sound that there are many factors that shape the final sound an IEM delivers to one's ear.

Those factors include:
1 - Shape and size of the reviewer's ear canals. (shallow or deep, wide or narrow)
2 - Shape and size of the eartips [round or cone, single, double or triple flange] & proper fit
3 - Materials of the eartips (silicone/foam)
4 - Shape of the IEM (and/or angle of the nozzle) can cause fitment issues for some.
5 - Source (quality of smartphone, laptop, digital audio player) is amplified/unamplified.
6 - The IEM itself (driver flex possible due to trapping air in canal causing muffled sound.
7 - The Reviewers ability to hear all frequency ranges (age plays a factor).

Most consumers are unaware of how much weight each of these factors hold in rendering a final verdict. This is why there is such a wide variance in not only ratings, but the description of an IEMs sound. An unaware consumer purchases a perfectly fine IEM but has difficulty keeping the IEM in the ear or he/she does not satisfactorily seal the ear canal with the included silicone eartips and summarily dismisses the IEM as sub par. Another consumer purchases the same IEM but experiences a perfect fit and seal and has nothing but praise for the same IEM. Sealing the ear canals AND HAVING THE EARTIP FIRMLY AFFIXED to the IEM nozzle when using IEMs is the determining factor to render a valid verdict. I can think of no audio equipment that is subjected to such praise or ridicule as the in-ear monitor. As if that's not enough, there is no "one-size-fits-all" when it comes to IEM eartips.

Materials (silicone or foam) have different dampening effects on the final sound.
The shape of the eartips (olive-shaped, cone-shaped or other-shaped) can have different dampening effects on the final sound based on how much space is between the IEM nozzle and your eardrum and how well the eartip has sealed the ear canal.
The aperture of the eartip's opening (wide-bore or narrow-bore) will have dampening effects on the final sound.

The easiest way for you to experience the different effects I am discussing is to take your current on-ear heaphones or over-ear headphones, pick a song full of energy, put the headphones on and let them sit naturally over/on your ears. Listen to them for two minutes. After two minutes, using your hands, slightly press the headphones closer to your eardrums. Notice the change in the sound. Is there more/less bass? Is there more/less treble? Did the vocals slightly slip forward/back?

Consider that on-ear and over-ear headphones have a driver that sits approximately 1 1/2 inches to 2 inches from your eardrums and by pressing the headphones 1/4" closer to your eardrums the sound changed. Now consider that an IEM sits anywhere from 3/4" to 1/4" from your eardrums and the slightest changes (angle, depth, shape, material) can have up to three times more of an effect due to the proximity of the IEM to the eardrum.

For this reason, I think it is wise to invest a nominal dollar amount on different eartips to get everything the earphone tuners intended. Personally, I think anything less is like playing Russian roulette. Some IEM manufacturers supply multiple sizes (S,M & L) and materials (silicone & foam) of eartips to increase the odds that the consumer will achieve a satisfactory seal, but even this is not foolproof. 

If this holds any interest for you some aftermarket brands to look into are "JVC Spiral Dots", "Spinfits", "Comply Foam Eartips" or "Znari Foam Eartips", "Creative Aurvana" and others.

****************************************

The HeadFi community is all about telling others about our experiences with a particular piece of audio gear. For IEMs, choosing the proper eartip really is equivalent to choosing the proper tire for that Porsche.  Someone who equips their Porsche 911 GT2 with thick snow tires will not have the same experience as someone who has equipped said 911 GT2 with the sticky/death-grip Pirelli Zero high performance treads. With the same exact car on the same exact road in the same exact weather conditions their experiences will be at polar opposites. Night and day, even.

At any rate, the veterans here know these things but I hope this was helpful to anyone new to the hobby.


----------



## mochill

new kz coming soon


----------



## Strat Rider (Jan 27, 2018)

@WalterTorino I haven't been this entertained by a tutorial in a very long time .

I have done similiar tip techniques using industrial type earplugs for other iem's. 

By the end of the day, i could have a whole family of finger puppets if I decide to mod my collection of ZS6 &, ZS5's

Thanks


----------



## DocHoliday

Jay Magaling said:


> So according to hillsonicaudio, all of these are upcoming/planned IEM models from KZ for 2018. So apparently there will be a "less angular" ZS6 (with all the screws and grill) that will be released, but will probably be a part of the ZST/ZSR family cause it uses the same angled cable.



Of course this is a harbinger for your wallet, meaning if there is a KZ that you've been eyeing or if you've been procrastinating, now would be the time to make a decision. Guess I'll have to postpone some other IEM purchases because I need those ZS6's in Pewter/Gray and perhaps Black, all four colors of the ZSR, one more set of Carbon ZST's,one more set of Colorful ZST's and two sets of ES3's. 

I know, I know.......but complaining about it now is futile and that will be no consolation when this stuff is gone. 

Changing an IEM's housing will effect the sound, not to mention KZ's penchant for modifying their IEM's with NO WARNING  (ahemmmm...ZS5, ATE, ZS1,etc ).

The best way to justify your addiction to KZ IEMs is to donate the same amount of cash spent on KZ's to your favorite charity.

There. All better now?

LOL


----------



## DocHoliday

skaktuss said:


> Hello, everyone! Long time HF reader here. Been visiting  occasionally since mh1 hype started. Now I'm an everyday visitor and damn, all I can say - last 6 months have not been very healthy for my wallet, and one night I had a nightmare about  A.R. Rahman.
> Ok to the point. I want to share my KZ ZS5 DMGM (Doom Metal Ghetto Mod). I really liked my zs5 v1, but could not keep them in my ears longer than 10 minutes. All those sharp edges were killing me. (I have rather small ears for a 185cm guy). I really loved the ZS3 form factor, but ZS5 sound quality I loved even more. I bought the CI880 as a close competitor with a smaller shell size. But it's nowhere near the zs5 soundstage, bass quality and instrument separation wise. LSS - decided to make my ZS5 smoother. Not the best looking result, but believe me, the comfort is exceptional now.
> 
> 
> ...



What the heck......

Is that a ZS5 melted with a heat gun or are you pulling our leg?


----------



## DocHoliday

Jay Magaling said:


> So according to hillsonicaudio, all of these are upcoming/planned IEM models from KZ for 2018. So apparently there will be a "less angular" ZS6 (with all the screws and grill) that will be released, but will probably be a part of the ZST/ZSR family cause it uses the same angled cable.



Link please.


----------



## jaydm99

DocHoliday said:


> Link please.





Spoiler



https://m.facebook.com/hillsonicaud...303511814/1081572661984544/?type=3&source=54/

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bec-mwQlvA4/


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 27, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> ok so 2nd row  from top looks like  direct Aursonics/ Fender knock off in case design.   The one at the bottom right looks to be either a Fender or Jerry Harvey knock off.   The Layla would be an awful high aiming point for Kz.



Good looking out.





Actually, I can't really tell from the fuzzy photo but it almost looks as if that very last one may have a mesh faceplate, meaning it may well be a set of open IEMs. What a concept. A Knowledge Zenith IEM version of the SoundMAGIC HP200 or Sennheiser HD600. I've been ruminating over this idea for nearly two years. If it's true then I can't wait to hear them.


----------



## khighly

KZ ZS5v1 > 1More Triple > KZ ZS6 > KZ ZST > KZ ATR > Tennmak Pro > Tennmak Piano > KZ ATE

ZS5v1 on top. I wish they hadn't changed them because I'm wondering if I'll have a hard time finding anything under $200 that will compete with them and I'm afraid of losing them. The 1More Triple's were not worth the $100 and are lacking in soundstage, but are very similar to the ZS5v1's in sound signature. ZS5's have a larger soundstage and better sub bass reproduction as well as a more crisp sound that isn't sibilant in any sense.


----------



## C2thew (Jan 27, 2018)

Here are some macro pictures of the microphone section from the stock KZ ZS3 cable.  It looks like in the first and 3rd pictures that the two transistors are fried.  I can't figure out where the wires are crossing causing my volume to be increased when i press the microphone button.  When I run, my volume sometimes decreases randomly and it only happens with this stock cable.  It's very frustrating.  I'm going to see if i can fix this before i order a replacement cable.

So i took a wet toothbrush to the contacts on the PCB board and it seemed like it helped a little but its still not working 100 %


----------



## Slater

HraD2 said:


> I got definitely better bass and not so much bright highs due to smaller out-hole. It really works.





WalterTorino said:


> As someone said before - if you have a tips with smaller diameter, you'll get better sound - more lows, less highs.



This reminds me of the ZS1 v1 and the brass ring in the nozzle to make the nozzle smaller in effect:


----------



## skaktuss

Jay Magaling said:


> Did you sanded it down or just applied a thick layer of paint over the original? I also now have a ZS5 in black but with a matte finish



Sanded it down to the minimum and applied a very thick layer of a paint. Without sanding they would be larger than a VW Beetle.


----------



## bsoplinger

@WalterTorino nice tutorial, made me chuckle. Question though, how difficult is it to get the foamies over that seriously thickened nozzle? Luckily I can get about the same effect with my smaller nozzle sizes foamies in T200 and T300 size (4.0mm and 4.5mm). 

I have done that type of mod for IEMs with smaller nozzles like 3.0mm ones. Adding the sleeve part of the tip to the nozzle gets the diameter up to where standard 4.9mm T100 / T500 foamies fit just fine.


----------



## khighly

Went ahead and went all out. I'll let you guys know how these IT03 compare to the ZS5's. I noticed a real divide when checking out the IT01 and IT03 thread, between this KZ thread. I can tell I won't be able to stand it in that thread compared to here, ha ha. 

Hopefully the MEE audio bluetooth cable is great (memory wire, grumble grumble). I sent the 1More Triple's back.


----------



## fredhubbard2

KZ ZS5 or KZ ZS6?

i havent bought any new IEMs for a while, i've been using nothing else but HY TiZ G3's for the last year altho i do have KZ ZST's which i did like alot. i've been trawling thru the last few pages and cannot work out which ones will suit me the best; i like detail and soundstage ... bass i can add with my amp if necessary

excuse my laziness but which should i get? ... i'll be adding spiral dot tips to them


----------



## vladstef

khighly said:


> KZ ZS5v1 > 1More Triple > KZ ZS6 > KZ ZST > KZ ATR > Tennmak Pro > Tennmak Piano > KZ ATE
> 
> ZS5v1 on top. I wish they hadn't changed them because I'm wondering if I'll have a hard time finding anything under $200 that will compete with them and I'm afraid of losing them. The 1More Triple's were not worth the $100 and are lacking in soundstage, but are very similar to the ZS5v1's in sound signature. ZS5's have a larger soundstage and better sub bass reproduction as well as a more crisp sound that isn't sibilant in any sense.



Bold statement honestly. I get why people like ZS5v1 but they aren't untouchable. For example, I prefer Sony MH1c (<15$) by a small margin. Step up a bit and you get a very clear upgrade for around 35$ on sale - Auglamour RT-1 does everything better than ZS5 (except the sound stage where they are similar). This is not even taking into account accessories, build quality, comfort, isolation, design... Haven't heard iBasso IT01 which is probably an even bigger upgrade and I can only imagine what 200$ gets you today.

On the other hand, budget earbuds are winners for pure sound quality, a 10$ EMX500 gets you a long way towards musical bliss, in quiet environments though.

It's kinda dangerous to speak unfavorably about KZ's top dog here - just keep in mind that this is a personal opinion and not an attempt to start wars. KZ has yet to really impress me and I am looking forward to it.


----------



## khighly

vladstef said:


> Bold statement honestly. I get why people like ZS5v1 but they aren't untouchable. For example, I prefer Sony MH1c (<15$) by a small margin. Step up a bit and you get a very clear upgrade for around 35$ on sale - Auglamour RT-1 does everything better than ZS5 (except the sound stage where they are similar). This is not even taking into account accessories, build quality, comfort, isolation, design... Haven't heard iBasso IT01 which is probably an even bigger upgrade and I can only imagine what 200$ gets you today.
> 
> On the other hand, budget earbuds are winners for pure sound quality, a 10$ EMX500 gets you a long way towards musical bliss, in quiet environments though.
> 
> It's kinda dangerous to speak unfavorably about KZ's top dog here - just keep in mind that this is a personal opinion and not an attempt to start wars. KZ has yet to really impress me and I am looking forward to it.



I just bought the iBasso IT03 for $259, so I'll let you know how "untouchable" the ZS5v1's really are. I have a gut feeling as if my argument may stand, sound quality wise at least. I'm not intimidated by the cost, and give honest "no-BS" reviews. I am listening to these IEM's 7+ hours/day (uneventful job & life, music is therapy, etc) and allow brain burn in (along with whatever other burn in you may think exists) to happen over the course of 1-2 weeks. The IT03's have glowing reviews on head-fi, so they should be a terrific point to compare the ZS5v1's to.


----------



## DocHoliday

vladstef said:


> Bold statement honestly. I get why people like ZS5v1 but they aren't untouchable. For example, I prefer Sony MH1c (<15$) by a small margin. Step up a bit and you get a very clear upgrade for around 35$ on sale - Auglamour RT-1 does everything better than ZS5 (except the sound stage where they are similar). This is not even taking into account accessories, build quality, comfort, isolation, design... Haven't heard iBasso IT01 which is probably an even bigger upgrade and I can only imagine what 200$ gets you today.
> 
> On the other hand, budget earbuds are winners for pure sound quality, a 10$ EMX500 gets you a long way towards musical bliss, in quiet environments though.
> 
> It's kinda dangerous to speak unfavorably about KZ's top dog here - just keep in mind that this is a personal opinion and not an attempt to start wars. KZ has yet to really impress me and I am looking forward to it.



Please supply a link so those interested can purchase the Sony MH1C.


----------



## groucho69

DocHoliday said:


> Please supply a link so those interested can purchase the Sony MH1C.



http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Headset-Earp...840318?hash=item4b13ce63fe:g:HOsAAOSwWxNYy5W7


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 27, 2018)

khighly said:


> I just bought the iBasso IT03 for $259, so I'll let you know how "untouchable" the ZS5v1's really are. I have a gut feeling as if my argument may stand, sound quality wise at least. I'm not intimidated by the cost, and give honest "no-BS" reviews. I am listening to these IEM's 7+ hours/day (uneventful job & life, music is therapy, etc) and allow brain burn in (along with whatever other burn in you may think exists) to happen over the course of 1-2 weeks. The IT03's have glowing reviews on head-fi, so they should be a terrific point to compare the ZS5v1's to.



This is a review I will be looking forward to. Thanks for taking the plunge. 

Word on the street is that the IT03 is very source dependent (8ohms impedance), has a similar 10khz spike like the ZS6 and is tuned with big bass. I think another interesting comparison will be with KZ's ZSR, which reportedly have big bass (10mm DD), accented treble and very similar driver housings. This should be interesting to say the least. It may actually help us gauge how well KZ is doing compared to the competition or how far behind they are.

What source will you be pairing them with and thanks again for taking the plunge.

iBasso IT03 ($260) 




Knowledge Zenith ZSR  ($27)


----------



## DocHoliday

groucho69 said:


> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Headset-Earp...840318?hash=item4b13ce63fe:g:HOsAAOSwWxNYy5W7



Thanks grouch69. Much appreciated.


----------



## groucho69

NP.


----------



## khighly (Jan 27, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> This is a review I will be looking forward to. Thanks for taking the plunge.
> 
> Word on the street is that the IT03 is very source dependent (8ohms impedance), has a similar 10khz spike like the ZS6 and is tuned with big bass. I think another interesting comparison will be with KZ's ZSR, which reportedly have big bass (10mm DD), accented treble and very similar driver housings. This should be interesting to say the least. It may actually help us gauge how well KZ is doing compared to the competition or how far behind they are.
> 
> ...



I'll give impressions on my Pixel XL, Zune 120, *Modi 2/Magni 3 *(best I have), as well as the *MEE Audio BT aptX cable* with my Pixel XL (Snapdragon 821 does aptX and aptX HD now apparently). Pixel XL/Zune 120 is what I'll mostly be listening on, since I'm away from home for 10-12 hours per day and I can't exactly bring everything with me. They aren't exactly expensive enough to warrant me keeping them home either.

The Geffen master of Live At The Regal will be a nice test (one of the hundreds of music tests!) of the IT03 vs the ZS5. I feel it's one of the best mastered & recorded albums I've ever heard, with a giant soundstage and crisp wonderful audio. When BB King yells into that microphone and it pops, sending that loud pop in a very pleasant air pushing way into my ear, it gives me goosebumps like I'm right there.

Unfortunately, I do not have the ZSR and I do not plan to get them, so unless some birdie sitting out there in the peanut crowd sends me a PM offering a free pair to compare against the IT03's, there will be no ZSR review. I also do not have the ZS5v2, and I also do not have the ZS6 anymore as I lost one side somewhere on the streets of Seattle.


----------



## DocHoliday

khighly said:


> I'll give impressions on my Pixel XL, Zune 120, *Modi 2/Magni 3 *(best I have), as well as the *MEE Audio BT aptX cable* with my Pixel XL (Snapdragon 821 does aptX and aptX HD now apparently). Pixel XL/Zune 120 is what I'll mostly be listening on, since I'm away from home for 10-12 hours per day and I can't exactly bring everything with me. They aren't exactly expensive enough to warrant me keeping them home either.
> 
> The Geffen master of Live At The Regal will be a nice test (one of the hundreds of music tests!) of the IT03 vs the ZS5. I feel it's one of the best mastered & recorded albums I've ever heard, with a giant soundstage and crisp wonderful audio. When BB King yells into that microphone and it pops, sending that loud pop in a very pleasant air pushing way into my ear, it gives me goosebumps like I'm right there.
> 
> Unfortunately, I do not have the ZSR and I do not plan to get them, so unless some birdie sitting out there in the peanut crowd sends me a PM offering a free pair to compare against the IT03's, there will be no ZSR review. I also do not have the ZS5v2, and I also do not have the ZS6 anymore as I lost one side somewhere on the streets of Seattle.




I'll have to check out the "Geffen master of Live At The Regal". Never heard it before.

Too bad about that ZS6.  If after a while no one compares the IT03 and ZSR, perhaps I'll send one up there (California to Seattle).

Both of my ZuneHD's are still going strong (8yrs) and sound exceptionally clean.

Anyway, looking forward to the comparison.


----------



## khighly

DocHoliday said:


> I'll have to check out the "Geffen master of Live At The Regal". Never heard it before.
> 
> Too bad about that ZS6.  If after a while no one compares the IT03 and ZSR, perhaps I'll send one up there (California to Seattle).
> 
> ...



Sounds good! I'll compare to most of my other IEM's as well.

I have a Zune HD, Zune 120, and an original Zune. They're off the grid, have FM radios, and decent DAC's. To this day, they're all going strong. Not sure why these got discontinued, but I imagine is was the iPod that killed them.


----------



## jaydm99 (Jan 27, 2018)

skaktuss said:


> Sanded it down to the minimum and applied a very thick layer of a paint. Without sanding they would be larger than a VW Beetle.


I've actually redone mine last night. Sanded it down more (I used Scotch-Brite ) and used better quality paint. Not too thick, I've only used half of the 400cc can. After that I was hearing driver flex when I insert them, until I realized that I have to clear the paint-clogged vent holes. IMO this ZS5 is more ergonomic now. Sits perfectly on my ear.

Just waiting now for my T400 foams from eBay (US$ 1.8/4 pairs!!!)





It looks better in actual than in this pic


----------



## khighly

Jay Magaling said:


> I've actually redone mine last night. Sanded it down more (I used Scotch-Brite ) and used better quality paint. Not too thick, I've only used half of the 400cc can. After that I was hearing driver flex when I insert them, until I realized that I have to clear the paint-clogged vent holes. IMO this ZS5 is more ergonomic now. Sits perfectly on my ear.
> 
> Just waiting now for my T400 foams from eBay (US$ 1.8/4 pairs!!!)
> 
> ...



I personally have no issues with ergonomics on my ZS5's, but wow that looks awesome! KZ should've rounded it like that. Excellent work.


----------



## jaydm99

khighly said:


> I personally have no issues with ergonomics on my ZS5's, but wow that looks awesome! KZ should've rounded it like that. Excellent work.


Thanks! Well at least KZ is thinking about releasing a rounded ZS6.


----------



## Willber

khighly said:


> Can anyone recommend me a ~$100 IEM that's going to beat my KZ ZS5? The 1More Triple's didn't cut it.


I don't have the ZS5, but my AAW Nebula One are better in every way than my ZS6.

https://www.null-audio.com/collecti...ticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor

I was lucky enough to get mine in a flash sale for $30. The only downside is the non-changeable cable.


----------



## Strat Rider

Sorry to waste space. Delete


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 28, 2018)

khighly said:


> Sounds good! I'll compare to most of my other IEM's as well.
> 
> I have a Zune HD, Zune 120, and an original Zune. They're off the grid, have FM radios, and decent DAC's. To this day, they're all going strong. Not sure why these got discontinued, but I imagine is was the iPod that killed them.



Good to hear that your Zune120 is still going strong. I really wanted to get one but was concerned that the hard drive would only last a few years due to moving parts. It's great that yours has lasted approximately 8 years. I'm a little envious because of the amount of storage. Mine has 32gb (second ZuneHD has 16gb).

All of my KZ's except the ZS5(i) sound great on it (5ohms). The ZS5(i) sounds a bit thin on my ZuneHD (22mW@16Ω) compared to my Fiio (540mW@16Ω).


----------



## riffrafff

DocHoliday said:


> Good to hear that your Zune120 is still going strong. I really wanted to get one but was concerned that the hard drive would only last a few years due to moving parts. It'great that yours has lasted approximately 8 years. I'm a little envious because of the amount of storage.
> 
> All of my KZ's except the ZS5 (i) sound great on it (5ohms). The ZS5 (i) sounds a bit thin on the ZuneHD.



FWIW, my two iRiver H320s (circa 2004) and their hard drives are still going strong.


----------



## DocHoliday

riffrafff said:


> FWIW, my two iRiver H320s (circa 2004) and their hard drives are still going strong.




Guess I should've just bit the bullet and bought the Zune120.  Lesson learned.


----------



## WalterTorino

bsoplinger said:


> nice tutorial, made me chuckle. Question though, how difficult is it to get the foamies over that seriously thickened nozzle? Luckily I can get about the same effect with my smaller nozzle sizes foamies in T200 and T300 size (4.0mm and 4.5mm).


Thank you 
Well, it wasn't easy mostly because of useless tips - they're too flexible. 
A more rigid base would be welcome, actually. Like Starline's base. But I didn't want to cut my Starlines - they still can be useful for me 
All in all it took no longer than seven-ten minutes.


----------



## WalterTorino

Strat Rider said:


> @WalterTorino I haven't been this entertained by a tutorial in a very long time .
> 
> I have done similiar tip techniques using industrial type earplugs for other iem's.
> 
> ...


Thank you  It's nice too hear/see 
Yes, I did the same thing with industrial earplugs but I made some mistakes and I just spoiled the earplugs


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> I have to tell you that I literally guffawed and cracked up when reading your last post. I thought I was the only person on the planet that exclaimed "dang nabbit". Cracked me right up to actually see it in writing.



Well if my father were alive today he'd be 105! His favorite actor was Walter Brennan who I understand used the expression quite a bit. 

Just wanted to say a lot of you guys have been putting some great feedback and DIY info out here and this is what makes it such a great community. I have to admit I would never put the time and effort some of you have especially on budget gears but I love that so many here do and the passion for getting just what you want out of your purchases


----------



## rikk009

How to pair bluetooth cables with phone? The booklet provided is not helpful.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just hold in the power button till it flashes then scan with phone then pair


----------



## kazuma2017

mochill said:


> new kz coming soon


----------



## mochill

Yup


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 29, 2018)

kazuma2017 said:


>



Cool. so.. t


----------



## HraD2

rikk009 said:


> How to pair bluetooth cables with phone? The booklet provided is not helpful.


Stock or not?


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 28, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> Cool.





nxnje said:


> I don't know.. i think kz did what i'm thinking about
> I mean, a video like that shouldn't worry a company like kz that can easily prove those worda are fake af.
> 
> Anyway, they should just keep producing the v1, as far as i can read they were a bit better than the v2.



honestly that video wouldn't have changed the companys idea - they would have still sold like hot  cakes.. 

I just reckon having the zs5/6 in a similiar construction meant less mistakes and more consistency in assembly runs. workers are like worker bee's humming around the hive, Sometimes when you get a fresh run you can inhale deep from the nozzle and get a whiff of glue that hasn't fully cured yet, that's how fast they're pumping them out.


----------



## paulindss (Jan 28, 2018)

kazuma2017 said:


>



Under the photos and in the middle of the chinese letters you see a number like xxxxxx 1 xxxx 2, xxx6. This is probably the number of drivers. The translucent red in the left of the Black one seems to be the zs with 5 drivers. One dynamic, 4 ba. That one in Black catches my attention. A small zs6 that isn't a knock off and with a open grill with 3 drivers. Hm...

Edit. Also the hybrid in bullet form with a open back. Its the first attempt of kz doing that. Open back ? Interesting.


----------



## maxxevv

Drumkrunk said:


> Cool. so.. this is some guy who rebranded kz phones? or something.



If you know the background of Hillsonic, then you'll probably be like what I'm doing here, guessing that these are in fact soon to released KZ earphones.


----------



## fluteloop

Drumkrunk said:


> honestly that video wouldn't have changed the companys idea - they would have still sold like hot  cakes.





Jay Magaling said:


> So according to hillsonicaudio, all of these are upcoming/planned IEM models from KZ for 2018. So apparently there will be a "less angular" ZS6 (with all the screws and grill) that will be released, but will probably be a part of the ZST/ZSR family cause it uses the same angled cable.



the straight 2-ping terminal needed to go... the bent one is so much better.. in my opinion. but if it can accept both... better for others who prefer it... I personally like the angled terminal. the new zs6 looks awesome. I'm happy they're doing their own thang - Shake that booty KZ... Shake it.


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 28, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> If you know the background of Hillsonic, then you'll probably be like what I'm doing here, guessing that these are in fact soon to released KZ earphones.



Do not know Hillsonic. maybe I best learn imma drown.


----------



## fluteloop

Drumkrunk said:


> Cool. so.. this is some guy who rebranded kz phones? or something.



Turns out it's 2018 line-up. Thank's to those who Shared the images of new KZ - I haven't been this excited since I witnessed my first Adult publication as a young teenager.


----------



## HraD2

On picture:
1st line - Al allloy body, 1DD+ 1BA Driver
2nd line - Polycarbonate(?) body, 1DD+2BA
3rd line - Al alloy, 1DD + 2BA; Polycarbonate, 1DD + 4BA; Metal + Polycarbonate, 1DD + 1BA
4th line - Two Polycarbonate parts, 1DD + 1BA; Polycarbonate empty inside, 1DD + 1BA; ABS, 1DD + 2BA

Use the Yandex, Luke )))


----------



## fluteloop

all single DD...


----------



## vladstef

A bit redundant with these 1DD + 1BA models, hopefully they have updated driver designs and there is an upgrade compared to current models. Interesting array honestly and I am quite surprised that they have these photos of almost finished designs (otherwise what's with promo images being ready for all of them?). Had hope that ZS10 will be some crazy solid metal design but it looks like ZS6 build will remain supreme for this year.


----------



## khighly

*This is possibly going to rustle a lot of jimmies*, but the iBasso IT03 are only _slightly_ better [in sound signature only] than the ZS5v1's after a few hours with them in my ears using two different sources. Take this with a grain of salt right now, but I'm not seeing anything really "yeah this is worth $210 more". They're actually remarkably similar, but the IT03's have some very loud upper mids. Bass isn't as "tight and fast" as I had hoped, and it's down about 2-3dB from the KZ5's. Soundstage is slightly larger and things feel more naturally placed, but really not too big of a difference. *On initial impressions*, if people are comparing these to $1100 Campfire Audio's, people are getting absolutely taken for their money.

*Initial Pro's:*
- Acrylic build quality is much higher.
- Isolation is top notch compared to the ZS5's.
- Fit is perfect and solid.

Again, grain of salt, don't take the pitchforks out yet. I'll do more testing tonight on better sources.

*Proof that I own the IT03's:




*


----------



## Antec800

Update, I put the wires in the correct way but the zsr still sound like poop, The mids and highs are so harsh and ear piercing I can’t put them more then half volume which is very low


----------



## bsoplinger

Antec800 said:


> Update, I put the wires in the correct way but the zsr still sound like poop, The mids and highs are so harsh and ear piercing I can’t put them more then half volume which is very low


I'll suggest trying some sort of foamies with them. For me at least that takes the edge of the sound of the ZS5 and ZS6 so I'd think it'd help with the ZSR. I got mine in yesterday's mail so they're on the stack to get burn-in before I get around to listening to mine.


----------



## Viber (Jan 28, 2018)

So this is what i make of the new Kz lineup...
Let the guessing begin!




 

I wish there were at least 2 native Bluetooth models in all of this, they need to move forward with the times.


----------



## khighly

Viber said:


> So this is what i make of the new Kz lineup...
> Let the guessing begin!
> 
> I wish there were at least 2 native Bluetooth models in all of this, they need to move forward with the times.


The top center clearly says ZS7.


----------



## Viber (Jan 28, 2018)

khighly said:


> The top center clearly says ZS7.



Oh cool, didnt notice it.
Edit: fixed.


----------



## alex5908 (Jan 28, 2018)

To 



 
*WalterTorino*

Thanks for sharing. It worked for me too. A lot of bass.


----------



## kazuma2017

Viber said:


> So this is what i make of the new Kz lineup...
> Let the guessing begin!
> 
> 
> ...


source:
https://kzearphone.1688.com/page/custompage1.htm?tbpm=3&spm=a2615.2177701.0.0.5145f1caBp8Y3I

https://shop1420770527419.1688.com/page/custompage1.htm?tbpm=3


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> The top center clearly says ZS7.





Viber said:


> Oh cool, didnt notice it.
> Edit: fixed.



The top 2 are actually the same unit (just different colors). The internal part/model # says YZ34 for both.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> The top 2 are actually the same unit (just different colors). The internal part/model # says YZ34 for both.



I know.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well if my father were alive today he'd be 105! His favorite actor was Walter Brennan who I understand used the expression quite a bit.
> 
> Just wanted to say a lot of you guys have been putting some great feedback and DIY info out here and this is what makes it such a great community. I have to admit I would


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 28, 2018)

Antec800 said:


> Update, I put the wires in the correct way but the zsr still sound like poop, The mids and highs are so harsh and ear piercing I can’t put them more then half volume which is very low



Please advise us, which source did you use to test your ZSR and what IEM is your typical favorite?

For instance, someone who favors the ATE's smoothness may not necessarily enjoy the brightness of the ZST or ZS6.Tell us, what's your poison? ATE? ATR? ZS3?......


----------



## riffrafff

Antec800 said:


> Update, I put the wires in the correct way but the zsr still sound like poop, The mids and highs are so harsh and ear piercing I can’t put them more then half volume which is very low



After 24 hours burn-in, I'm rockin' out to some Nightwish on mine.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 28, 2018)

khighly said:


> *This is possibly going to rustle a lot of jimmies*, but the iBasso IT03 are only _slightly_ better [in sound signature only] than the ZS5v1's after a few hours with them in my ears using two different sources. Take this with a grain of salt right now, but I'm not seeing anything really "yeah this is worth $210 more". They're actually remarkably similar, but the IT03's have some very loud upper mids. Bass isn't as "tight and fast" as I had hoped, and it's down about 2-3dB from the KZ5's. Soundstage is slightly larger and things feel more naturally placed, but really not too big of a difference. *On initial impressions*, if people are comparing these to $1100 Campfire Audio's, people are getting absolutely taken for their money.
> 
> *Initial Pro's:*
> - Acrylic build quality is much higher.
> ...



Thanks for the honest input. Looking forward to more of it. 

On your follow-up please quote the sources/gear so those of us who are obsessed with this stuff can ferret out specs and other minutia for a clearer picture.

If it turns out that you can't stomach paying so much more for something you enjoy marginally more than your ZS5(i) then maybe you can check with Podster and see if he still has a ZS5(i) that he is willing to part with. Get a lover'ly cable for them (maybe even crazy glue it so it doesn't run off never to be seen again like your ZS6) and enjoy your music until you find a satisfactory replacement. Knowledge Zenith probably won't release a quad-driver that sounds EXACTLY like the non-crossover ZS5(i) again.

I'm hoping they will release a replacement that sounds very similar, but I doubt they will issue a replacement without a crossover like the ZS5(i); hence the difference. If you want a ZS5(i) backup then now would be the time to make that move because IT WILL disappear into the mist like the ZS1(i) has.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 29, 2018)

Viber said:


> So this is what i make of the new Kz lineup...
> Let the guessing begin!
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the clearer image. Doesn't look like that KZ Phoenix is as open as I was hoping. However,  KZ could easily issue a similar IEM, call it the KZ 'Ella" (after the first lady of song) and issue it with three or four rows of perforations instead of one to open the soundstage even more. 

In fact KZ could do a whole line named after legendary Jazz artists. Monster did Miles Davis, Jerry Harvey named his after classic rock titles. Why shouldn't Knowledge Zenith release an "Ella", "Louis", "Tony" and "Diana"? The PR alone would generate a ridiculous amount of jibber-jabber and be a breath of fresh air for the audio enthusiast on a budget.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 29, 2018)

Am I wrong if I think that zs10 can use a crossover?


----------



## djmakemynight

WalterTorino said:


> Am I wrong if I think that zs10 can use a crossover?



Hopefully it does come with one. I personally believe that every hybrid should have a crossover. However, that would drive the cost up as well.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 29, 2018)

djmakemynight said:


> Hopefully it does come with one. I personally believe that every hybrid should have a crossover. However, that would drive the cost up as well.


If it will cause a sound upgrade, I'm ready for a higher price


----------



## djmakemynight

Viber said:


> So this is what i make of the new Kz lineup...
> Let the guessing begin!
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like they are very serious about flooding the market with hybrids this year. From 1BA and 1DD all the way to 4BA and 1DD for the ZS10/ZSR pro.


----------



## WalterTorino

djmakemynight said:


> Looks like they are very serious about flooding the market with hybrids this year. From 1BA and 1DD all the way to 4BA and 1DD for the ZS10/ZSR pro.


As long as there is demand, there will be an offer


----------



## MyPants

I sincerely hope that they've developed or chosen a wider array of DD and BA drivers so there's some variety in the lineup. Unless they're discontinuing a bunch of current models, I see a whole lot of redundancy here. If not, the only thing that I can really see myself buying is the 5-driver ZS10/ZSR Pro.


----------



## Slater (Jan 29, 2018)

MyPants said:


> I sincerely hope that they've developed or chosen a wider array of DD and BA drivers so there's some variety in the lineup. Unless they're discontinuing a bunch of current models, I see a whole lot of redundancy here. If not, the only thing that I can really see myself buying is the 5-driver ZS10/ZSR Pro.



I'm with you on this. How many IEMs do we need that (probably) sound identical to the ES3/ZST/ZSR?

I would rather see them come up with LESS IEMs with better tuning/metal build/more differences between each other, vs. MORE IEMs that are very similar to one another/previous models.

Like the old saying "less is more".


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> I'm with you on this. How many IEMs do we need that (probably) sound identical to the ES3/ZST/ZSR?
> 
> I would rather see them come up with LESS IEMs with better tuning/metal build/more differences between each other, vs. MORE IEMs that are very similar to one another/previous models.
> 
> Like the old saying "less is more".


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 29, 2018)

Slater said:


> I'm with you on this. How many IEMs do we need that (probably) sound identical to the ES3/ZST/ZSR?
> 
> I would rather see them come up with LESS IEMs with better tuning/metal build/more differences between each other, vs. MORE IEMs that are very similar to one another/previous models.
> 
> Like the old saying "less is more".


For me three new models could be enough:
1) 1dd+4ba+crossover;
2) 1dd+2ba+fully remastered sound (new drivers);
3) 2dd+1(or 2)ba bassy model.
Ok, one planar model could be great too but I know that there is no chance for it.
And could be interesting to see full-size model from KZ but it is not gonna happen this year, i guess.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> I'm with you on this. How many IEMs do we need that (probably) sound identical to the ES3/ZST/ZSR?
> 
> I would rather see them come up with LESS IEMs with better tuning/metal build/more differences between each other, vs. MORE IEMs that are very similar to one another/previous models.
> 
> Like the old saying "less is more".


I myself have put on hold the KZ hype since the ZS5 v1. (Luckly I got two of those). No more KZs for me until there's a really good and different one. 

Been looking elsewhere, and since october, I only bought a new pair of IEMs (the Swings)... and a Grado SR60e can.


----------



## MyPants

Mellowship said:


> I myself have put on hold the KZ hype since the ZS5 v1. (Luckly I got two of those). No more KZs for me until there's a really good and different one.
> 
> Been looking elsewhere, and since october, I only bought a new pair of IEMs (the Swings)... and a Grado SR60e can.



I ended up skipping ZS5 as the ZS6 was out by the time the ZS5 got down to a price I'd be willing to pay for them, and the emerald green metal shells just sucked me in. Since then my craving for upgrades has drawn me to purchase the NuForce Primo8, the LZ A4, and Final Heaven II's. The Finals were sent back due to the intolerably microphonic, non-removable cable, but the other two are rocking my world. So KZ is really going to have to do something interesting to draw my attention.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well if my father were alive today he'd be 105! His favorite actor was Walter Brennan who I understand used the expression quite a bit.
> 
> Just wanted to say a lot of you guys have been putting some great feedback and DIY info out here and this is what makes it such a great community. I have to admit I would never put the time and effort some of you have especially on budget gears but I love that so many here do and the passion for getting just what you want out of your purchases



I know I had to hear the expression at some time in the past. For now I'll give the credit to Walter Brennan and seek out a few examples of him using it.






Regarding the budget gear et al:
For the most part I can't see myself paying exorbitant sums for audio gear that is designed for mobile use that will eventually be rendered useless by inadvertently catching the wires on doorknobs, chair backs or drawer handles. 

I understand the complaint that some of Knowledge Zenith's releases have similar sound signatures (i.e. - ZST vs ES3) and I do believe that they should give equal attention to IEMs that cater to those that prefer a warmer sound signature (ATE, ZS5(i) & ED3 "Acme"). That said, I can hear the subtle and sometimes not so subtle differences in all of their models and it has afforded me an inexpensive and eye opening education about what I do like and what I don't like. Threads like this further that education provided the comments are helpful and the hype is kept to a minimum (probably why this thread has been so successful despite the occasional malcontent).

At any rate, when two are in agreement one is redundant, but my sentiments echo your own. This is indeed "a great community".


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 29, 2018)

khighly said:


> I'll give impressions on my Pixel XL, Zune 120, *Modi 2/Magni 3 *(best I have), as well as the *MEE Audio BT aptX cable* with my Pixel XL (Snapdragon 821 does aptX and aptX HD now apparently). Pixel XL/Zune 120 is what I'll mostly be listening on, since I'm away from home for 10-12 hours per day and I can't exactly bring everything with me. They aren't exactly expensive enough to warrant me keeping them home either.
> 
> The Geffen master of Live At The Regal will be a nice test (one of the hundreds of music tests!) of the IT03 vs the ZS5. I feel it's one of the best mastered & recorded albums I've ever heard, with a giant soundstage and crisp wonderful audio. When BB King yells into that microphone and it pops, sending that loud pop in a very pleasant air pushing way into my ear, it gives me goosebumps like I'm right there.
> 
> Unfortunately, I do not have the ZSR and I do not plan to get them, so unless some birdie sitting out there in the peanut crowd sends me a PM offering a free pair to compare against the IT03's, there will be no ZSR review. I also do not have the ZS5v2, and I also do not have the ZS6 anymore as I lost one side somewhere on the streets of Seattle.




My guess would be that, given the IT03's characteristics, the ZS5(i) plugged into your Modi 2/Magni 3 may provide a more enjoyable experience than the iBasso for tracks like this.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> I know I had to hear the expression at some time in the past. For now I'll give the credit to Walter Brennan and seek out a few examples of him using it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well @DocHoliday  I'm pretty sure I've caught this character using it a few times over the years as well


----------



## SiggyFraud

So my KZ ZS6 arrived today and... I'm in love. From the way they look and feel, through build quality, to the sound. Just wow. Sure, the s-es can be quite prominent sometimes, but that's nothing a set of Complys and a few hours of burn-in won't fix. Well done, KZ.
Still need to do a A to B comparison with my ZS5 v1, but based on the first impression I think I'm looking at my new favourite IEMs.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well @DocHoliday  I'm pretty sure I've caught this character using it a few times over the years as well




It all makes perfect sense, now! I'm a huge Looney Tunes fan.  Hard to pick a favorite though. 
Is it Hocus Pocus Hare


or

Little Red Riding Rabbit?


OK! OK! 
Back on topic.....

...if it's any consolation I'm listening to Looney Tunes clips with my KZ's. See what I did there?


----------



## khighly

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the honest input. Looking forward to more of it.
> 
> On your follow-up please quote the sources/gear so those of us who are obsessed with this stuff can ferret out specs and other minutia for a clearer picture.
> 
> ...



I'm disappointed that I didn't buy a second set of ZS5v1. Over the night I did find that while the IT03's are good and do perform quite well, they're just really not worth an extra $210 to me so far. It's like getting a new KZ with a slightly more refind sound signature, and not that large of a soundstage. I haven't found any truly comfortable good sealing tips yet so I've been using medium Comply 500's which eventually start hurting my ears. The isolation is so much better on the IT03. Going to give them another listen today on different sources. I did "burn them in" overnight and yesterday just to make sure nobody bothers me about their beliefs in that manner when I write my actual review compared to the ZS5. If aptX and this Mee Audio Bluetooth cable actually work, drive the IT03's and play for 6+ hours, it may make them more valuable to me.

KZ comes with a higher quality cable than the IT03, surprisingly. Not really something I expected to cheap out on for $259. It's atrocious.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 29, 2018)

khighly said:


> I'm disappointed that I didn't buy a second set of ZS5v1. Over the night I did find that while the IT03's are good and do perform quite well, they're just really not worth an extra $210 to me so far. It's like getting a new KZ with a slightly more refind sound signature, and not that large of a soundstage. I haven't found any truly comfortable good sealing tips yet so I've been using medium Comply 500's which eventually start hurting my ears. The isolation is so much better on the IT03. Going to give them another listen today on different sources. I did "burn them in" overnight and yesterday just to make sure nobody bothers me about their beliefs in that manner when I write my actual review compared to the ZS5. If aptX and this Mee Audio Bluetooth cable actually work, drive the IT03's and play for 6+ hours, it may make them more valuable to me.
> 
> KZ comes with a higher quality cable than the IT03, surprisingly. Not really something I expected to cheap out on for $259. It's atrocious.




Yeah, for $210 on Amazon you can replace your ZS6 ($48), pick up the Pioneer CH9T ($80) and still have enough left over to  mine for your favorite artists on CD so you can rip them directly to your preferred listening format. It's just the way I think.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000002W21/ref=mw_dp_olp?ie=UTF8&condition=all


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> It all makes perfect sense, now! I'm a huge Looney Tunes fan.  Hard to pick a favorite though.
> Is it Hocus Pocus Hare
> 
> 
> ...




Watch Musky in this one



Or just Marvel (See what I did there) at these then


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> Watch Musky in this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## riffrafff

Podster said:


> Watch Musky in this one
> 
> 
> 
> Or just Marvel (See what I did there) at these then




"Earsplittinloudenboomer"    HA!   Another Steppenwolf fan, I presume?


----------



## Podster (Jan 29, 2018)

ZS6 of course, it's basically double the ZST for me which was my last Fave. I actually thought the ZST was better tuned and executed than either of the ZS5 models! Of course the 6 was what culminated from the 5 but remember the 5 was rushed (even a little sloppy, don't hate Pod ZS5 fans) IMO and not a well planned and fully executed idea like the ZST and ZS6 were. Keep in mind this is just some old guy (ears too) who does not have expertise to be saying anything other than what he thinks of these 3 models. For $40 ($28.99 for us lucky few) the ZS6 is a great all-arounder and a steal even at $40-$50

Mind you I still think the ED9 was a home run at the time with a choice of sizzle or super sizzle filters! Of course we know with the right tips (seal) and source the ED9 can still hold it's own and blow away just about any $10 iem made to date. My preferred direction for KZ now is to maybe come up with a multi filter option for the ZS6. I think they should have done that instead of the ZSR thing

Absolutely Riff, Steppin 7 is one of my all time faves


----------



## stryed

khighly said:


> I'm disappointed that I didn't buy a second set of ZS5v1. Over the night I did find that while the IT03's are good and do perform quite well, they're just really not worth an extra $210 to me so far. It's like getting a new KZ with a slightly more refind sound signature, and not that large of a soundstage. I haven't found any truly comfortable good sealing tips yet so I've been using medium Comply 500's which eventually start hurting my ears. The isolation is so much better on the IT03. Going to give them another listen today on different sources. I did "burn them in" overnight and yesterday just to make sure nobody bothers me about their beliefs in that manner when I write my actual review compared to the ZS5. If aptX and this Mee Audio Bluetooth cable actually work, drive the IT03's and play for 6+ hours, it may make them more valuable to me.
> 
> KZ comes with a higher quality cable than the IT03, surprisingly. Not really something I expected to cheap out on for $259. It's atrocious.



You should give them a closer listen. I'm not too shocked by your comment as I don't think my 100 eu IT01 blows the KZ5 out of the water. The 20 eu KZ5 blows away some cheap 5 euro ones for sure.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> ZS6 of course, it's basically double the ZST for me which was my last Fave. I actually thought the ZST was better tuned and executed than either of the ZS5 models! Of course the 6 was what culminated from the 5 but remember the 5 was rushed (even a little sloppy, don't hate Pod ZS5 fans) IMO and not a well planned and fully executed idea like the ZST and ZS6 were. Keep in mind this is just some old guy (ears too) who does not have expertise to be saying anything other than what he thinks of these 3 models. For $40 ($28.99 for us lucky few) the ZS6 is a great all-arounder and a steal even at $40-$50
> 
> Mind you I still think the ED9 was a home run at the time with a choice of sizzle or super sizzle filters! Of course we know with the right tips (seal) and source the ED9 can still hold it's own and blow away just about any $10 iem made to date. My preferred direction for KZ now is to maybe come up with a multi filter option for the ZS6. I think they should have done that instead of the ZSR thing
> 
> Absolutely Riff, Steppin 7 is one of my all time faves




Yeah, I actually considered the ZS5 to be a beta for the ZS6. I almost didn't pick up the ZS5 because of the basic cable, plastic build and lack of a crossover, but I gave in at the last moment before they modified it to a ZS5(ii) and I'm glad I did. I really don't know how it came out as good as it did, but when I power them up it's a good experience. I am still disappointed that KZ didn't lavish either the ZS5 or ZS6 with a nicer cable. 

I think the ZS6 is the bargain of the year in Chi-Fi, but I can't listen to everything with it. Pat Benatar's "Promises in the dark" is a little harder to take with them. The ES3 works better on really bright tracks, but Above & Beyond or Morcheeba are surreal on the ZS6.


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 29, 2018)

vladstef said:


> A bit redundant with these 1DD + 1BA models, hopefully they have updated driver designs and there is an upgrade compared to current models. Interesting array honestly and I am quite surprised that they have these photos of almost finished designs (otherwise what's with promo images being ready for all of them?). Had hope that ZS10 will be some crazy solid metal design but it looks like ZS6 build will remain supreme for this year.



yeah like if they Used a 12mm Copper DD and a 2-way network crossover around the 125hz mark with a full range BA handling the rest. haha


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 6, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> I myself have put on hold the KZ hype since the ZS5 v1. (Luckly I got two of those). No more KZs for me until there's a really good and different one.
> 
> Been looking elsewhere, and since october, I only bought a new pair of IEMs (the Swings)... and a Grado SR60e can.



I bought a few pairs of the zs6 I liked them that much. I didn't know what to expect as I was unfamiliar with KZ but now i'm on board. I recommend them, Some great phones, happy to see them modifying the design and becoming more themselves too in the 2018 iteration.
edit: adjusted composition for less wankerism.


----------



## Podster (Jan 29, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> I bought 5 pairs of the zs6 I liked them that much. lol



All the same color? I'm going to get the Pewter gray to go with my Red & Blacks, I'm thinking three ZS6's will hold me for sometime since I have like 30 other pairs of iem's to hold me over! Funny I never took to the green ones but if I could get them with the gold screws now I might reconsider (Obviously the longer I wait I'll have to get a second hand pair)! since the green seem to be discontinued and I still blame that on CA I also liked the idea of a nice white powder matte pair with a copper screw (maybe it was Bronze I read, remember I'm very old)

A green and gold screw pair would be very complementary of Ray's little Tomahawk Oh look I even kept a pair of KZ's in frame






@DocHoliday I like Zoe's voice, it's deeper but this music reminds me of Maria Mena's stuff

@Mellowship , great call on the SR60E's


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> Good choice - great IEM! I doubt you'll be dissapointed


You're right, they are great! Better than the ZS6 and almost a match for my $100 AAW Nebula One in all areas. Very quick delivery from here, too:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07428VM2Q/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item

I've had loads of bargains in the past 18 months but these have got to be one of the best, I reckon. 
Thanks to whoever brought them to my attention!


----------



## toddy0191

Willber said:


> You're right, they are great! Better than the ZS6 and almost a match for my $100 AAW Nebula One in all areas. Very quick delivery from here, too:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07428VM2Q/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item
> 
> ...



That's a bargain as you can get 10 percent off too. Fantastic value for money and anyone on the UK who doesn't have them should buy them NOW at that price.


----------



## Willber

toddy0191 said:


> That's a bargain as you can get 10 percent off too. Fantastic value for money and anyone on the UK who doesn't have them should buy them NOW at that price.


I agree and am going to get some more.
My only problem is that they are very sensitive to tips, and after rolling my favourites are the red-cored silicones that came with my HDS1 and ZS3 so they are in limited supply.


----------



## the Ortherion

My ZS6 arrived today, they are a little brighter than the ZS5 and feel somewhat hollow from my first impressions. For now i think i prefer the ZS5. The biggest improvement is definitely in build quality except the still horrendous failure that is the lack of a lip for securing the tips. Really what are they thinking? My tips keep getting stuck in my ears. Any recommendation for this awful design flaw?


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> That's a bargain as you can get 10 percent off too. Fantastic value for money and anyone on the UK who doesn't have them should buy them NOW at that price.





Willber said:


> I agree and am going to get some more.
> My only problem is that they are very sensitive to tips, and after rolling my favourites are the red-cored silicones that came with my HDS1 and ZS3 so they are in limited supply.



If you have a chance, try out the KZ Starline tips. I'm not the only one who swears by that combination. Same tips that come with ZSE, ZS5, ZS6, and others:


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> If you have a chance, try out the KZ Starline tips. I'm not the only one who swears by that combination. Same tips that come with ZSE, ZS5, ZS6, and others:


Yep, tried them, along with foams, double flanges, triple flanges, and an assortment of ordinary silicones. I found the sweet spot.


----------



## Willber

toddy0191 said:


> That's a bargain as you can get 10 percent off too. Fantastic value for money and anyone on the UK who doesn't have them should buy them NOW at that price.


Even cheaper here for our US friends (as usual ):

https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY

Interesting description here:

*UiiSii CM5 Headphones with earphones Double moving-coil L type bending schoolgirl*

https://www.miniinthebox.com/uiisii...-coil-l-type-bending-schoolgirl_p6417081.html


----------



## Toastybob

Willber said:


> Even cheaper here for our US friends (as usual ):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post. With the extra coupon on the page it came out to $8.99 for me.


----------



## Slater

the Ortherion said:


> My ZS6 arrived today, they are a little brighter than the ZS5 and feel somewhat hollow from my first impressions. For now i think i prefer the ZS5. The biggest improvement is definitely in build quality except the still horrendous failure that is the lack of a lip for securing the tips. Really what are they thinking? My tips keep getting stuck in my ears. Any recommendation for this awful design flaw?



I use an old BMX bike trick (to keep rubber/silicone handlebar grips firmly attached to the metal handlebars).

Wipe the outside edge of the nozzle using a qtip soaked with 1-2 drops hairspray. Then slide the eartip on while the hairspray is still wet, and let dry for an hour.

Some people glue their tips on with superglue, but I don't like the idea of that.

The other option is to create your own small lip on the nozzle with LazerBond UV glue. I've used this method on IEMs as well.


----------



## Willber

Toastybob said:


> Thanks for the post. With the extra coupon on the page it came out to $8.99 for me.


Excellent. Although I'm not sure you'll get a "bending schoolgirl"!


----------



## Slater

Willber said:


> Even cheaper here for our US friends (as usual ):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY
> 
> ...



Actually, that Amazon link you posted has an *additional* 25% off coupon you can use as well (final price $8.99 shipped)!


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> Actually, that Amazon link you posted has an *additional* 25% off coupon you can use as well (final price $8.99 shipped)!


Doesn't apply to us in Blighty.


----------



## Podster

Well at least you can get them, your link said they don't ship to the US! I like the red even if it does look like a bunch of bananas in your ears


----------



## Slater (Jan 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well at least you can get them, your link said they don't ship to the US! I like the red even if it does look like a bunch of bananas in your ears



Agreed; pretty stupid looking. I would rather have just had the front flat instead of carved to look like a bunch of bananas. Oh well, I could always fill the grooves in with bondo or something and paint them for a smooth/flush look. It doesn't bother me enough to worry about in the long run:


----------



## nkramer

Slater said:


> I use an old BMX bike trick (to keep rubber/silicone handlebar grips firmly attached to the metal handlebars).



ah yes... the old hairspray trick.... works like a charm.
brings back memories...... BMX days....


----------



## Podster

nkramer said:


> ah yes... the old hairspray trick.... works like a charm.
> brings back memories...... BMX days....



Put a few grips on eh! Makes me love my air compressor more and more each tome I use it So maybe i can get a pair on Aliex and just listen to Carly sing anticipation 20 million times till they get here


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 30, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> I bought 5 pairs of the zs6 I liked them that much. lol





Podster said:


> All the same color? I'm going to get the Pewter gray to go with my Red & Blacks, I'm thinking three ZS6's will hold me for sometime since I have like 30 other pairs of iem's to hold me over! Funny I never took to the green ones but if I could get them with the gold screws now I might reconsider



3 pairs is many, I am still confused as to why I became so overzealous. i'll end up gifting one or two pairs, I also want to polish a black pair to a mirror, buff the black coating off and polish the bare metal. should be good. I bought 3 black and 2 red. - Also I like the red more than the black in  the flesh,. in photo's the black looks nicer I admit.  the Grey is my favorite but it wasn't available when I purchased mine, neither was the green, well it was but It was double the price or something, I didn't want it enough to pay double, no sir. but i'll also purchase a few of the new 2018's because well, I want to hear what they've been up to. After I broke the nozzle off one pair of zs5's early on in my ownership, not even shure how it happened, I just went Ham on the zs6's because of that full metal jacket.

also hope there's other anodized options avail this year, maybe some purples, pinks or teals... brown maybe? a mustard colour?? maybe a spicy magenta or a fragrant Aubergine.


----------



## Podster

Well I prefer my Reds to the black as well, keep those in my consol for when out and about. Based on the finish of the black and red ones I'm sure the gray will look far better than my gray ZS5's. 

I love my carbon ZST's as they look far my professional than my colorfuls, sure wish KZ would hurry up and run the dreams again!


----------



## bsoplinger

the Ortherion said:


> My ZS6 arrived today…  except the still horrendous failure that is the lack of a lip for securing the tips. Really what are they thinking? My tips keep getting stuck in my ears. Any recommendation for this awful design flaw?


If you like or want to use foamies, just get ones with a smaller nozzle diameter like T200 or T300. Its back a bit in this thread in a few spots along with links to buy that size on Aliexpress.com.


----------



## fluteloop

Podster said:


> Put a few grips on eh! Makes me love my air compressor more and more each tome I use it So maybe i can get a pair on Aliex and just listen to Carly sing anticipation 20 million times till they get here




I Remember once I didn't have hairspray on hand so I used some strong hold mousse hahaha. that was a laugh. worked like a charm.


----------



## fluteloop

Podster said:


> Well I prefer my Reds to the black as well, keep those in my consol for when out and about. Based on the finish of the black and red ones I'm sure the gray will look far better than my gray ZS5's.
> 
> I love my carbon ZST's as they look far my professional than my colorfuls, sure wish KZ would hurry up and run the dreams again!



i'm 100% certain the grey zs6's in the flesh will look seriously good, it's not fair to compare painted plastic to Anodized alloy but you're not going to be disappointed, not like I was after I had purchased so many and then noticed the new colour Pop up.. hahaha. i'm not telling the truth it takes alot more to spark emotion from me. 

i'm happy with what I have and the sound is what kept my interest perked. I love the sound of the zs5v2's. in some instances I prefer them to zs6 but the overall resolution or presentation I should say, and consistency to the wide gamut of genre's I listen too has been the real eye opener for me in regards to the zs6's, the time I bought them I hadn't heard of Campfire Audio, and If I had, they weren't doing anything like the Andro at the time of my Hiatus away from Personal Audio. when I discovered they had "Paid Hommage" to the Andro or campfire design, i thought the engineers were taking a stab at Campfire like Someone went for a job there in between employment and was knocked back so the guy then planned his retaliation. or something. in my mind the world is some kind of dramatic novel, of course none of that is true to the best of my knowledge but i like to think these things because who's going to stop me? and I'm also creative and like to imagine a world where beyond the hills there's love and passion and fire and conversation. 

i got caught off guard and plan on grabbing some mainstream "Grail" options this year. there's so many to choose from, Aside from the couple of kz models i want to try, I have about ten phones on my list this year and none of them are under $100.

2018 here we come.


----------



## RomStar

Not to detract from current conversations but, 
Does anyone know the key differences between kz Ate, Ate-S and ATR?

2 weeks ago, I ordered the Ate-S, with my intention of doing the FF mods (thanks to guides from coil and slater) 

Just wondering if there are any drawbacks to trying these mod on this model, rather than the regular ATEs


----------



## Slater

nkramer said:


> ah yes... the old hairspray trick.... works like a charm.
> brings back memories...... BMX days....



Yup, good 'ol BMX.

I finished restoring my '89 chrome GT Pro Performer World Tour a few years ago...good as new, and upgraded with Redline 3pc crank and Skyways like I always wanted back in the day.

Nothing like riding while jamming with some KZs


----------



## Willber

Podster said:


> Well at least you can get them, your link said they don't ship to the US!


Um, my link with the discount was to the US site...


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

khighly said:


> I'm disappointed that I didn't buy a second set of ZS5v1. Over the night I did find that while the IT03's are good and do perform quite well, they're just really not worth an extra $210 to me so far. It's like getting a new KZ with a slightly more refind sound signature, and not that large of a soundstage. I haven't found any truly comfortable good sealing tips yet so I've been using medium Comply 500's which eventually start hurting my ears. The isolation is so much better on the IT03. Going to give them another listen today on different sources. I did "burn them in" overnight and yesterday just to make sure nobody bothers me about their beliefs in that manner when I write my actual review compared to the ZS5. If aptX and this Mee Audio Bluetooth cable actually work, drive the IT03's and play for 6+ hours, it may make them more valuable to me.
> 
> KZ comes with a higher quality cable than the IT03, surprisingly. Not really something I expected to cheap out on for $259. It's atrocious.



I just thought I'd chime in to see how much leveling of the playing field can be done considering the prices  [$260-IT03 vs $70-(ZS5i@$40+$30 BT cable]. Personally,  I think it's fair to factor in the separate BT cable because we're trying to gauge what you can get with your money.

One more track to add for your testing and comparison: Don't be alarmed at how distortion increases as you progress to ward the center of the track. It's not the IEM, it's how the track was mastered. I chose this track for that reason. On which IEM is it worse, the IT03 or ZS5(i). I'm asking because there have been instances when the ZS5(i) displays resonance. I'm just trying to discover if it worsens if the track contains distortion due to poor mastering or due to poor lossy files or if it occurs as a result of overlapping a particular frequency range since it has no crossover. I'll try to find a track that might exacerbate the situation with overlapping lower frequency ranges (lower midrange to upper bass), but in the meantime it will be interesting to hear your feedback. I know the ITO3 has big bass and I'm wondering how much the presentation is effected on a track like this.



The 0.75mm BT cable:


Hope this was helpful.


----------



## C2thew (Jan 30, 2018)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292213382133?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true

also on ebay for $17 usd but dunno about quality


toddy0191 said:


> That's a bargain as you can get 10 percent off too. Fantastic value for money and anyone on the UK who doesn't have them should buy them NOW at that price.



https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-Ui...TF8&qid=1517293273&sr=8-2&keywords=UiiSii+CM5

also $12 on amazon


----------



## jaydm99

the Ortherion said:


> My tips keep getting stuck in my ears. Any recommendation for this awful design flaw?


Use the smallest ones.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well I prefer my Reds to the black as well, keep those in my consol for when out and about. Based on the finish of the black and red ones I'm sure the gray will look far better than my gray ZS5's.
> 
> I love my carbon ZST's as they look far my professional than my colorfuls, sure wish KZ would hurry up and run the dreams again!



******* A L E R T *******

Looks like KZ has silently modified the ZS6. 
Pay close attention.

The first image is an image from three months ago. Note that the first image shows TWO of the same exact BA (30095).





The second image is also from several months ago. Note the "high pitched" balanced armature X2 in the photo. Same BA receivers.  


 

Now look at the third and most recent image. One midrange BA and one treble BA. 


 

Note that it is the same for the ZSR  (1 midrange BA and 1 Treble BA).




Just thought everyone should be aware that "what once was" is no more. When I get my new Pewter ZS6 I'll update the difference between my ZS6(i) and then new ZS6(ii).

I also think it's cool and interesting that KZ tuned the 6mm micro-driver for the sub-bass. This explains why the sub-bass is so quick and tight on the ZS6.


----------



## djmakemynight

RomStar said:


> Not to detract from current conversations but,
> Does anyone know the key differences between kz Ate, Ate-S and ATR?
> 
> 2 weeks ago, I ordered the Ate-S, with my intention of doing the FF mods (thanks to guides from coil and slater)
> ...



I can't recall the exact difference but my ATE-S sounds weird or off to me. I will take the ATR over it any day. Afterall, the ATR was the one that started me on my Chi-fi audio journey.


----------



## Lord Rexter (Jan 30, 2018)

My KZ ZS6 6 pair (colormix/dual tone)  collection:


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 30, 2018)

the Ortherion said:


> My ZS6 arrived today, they are a little brighter than the ZS5 and feel somewhat hollow from my first impressions. For now i think i prefer the ZS5. The biggest improvement is definitely in build quality except the still horrendous failure that is the lack of a lip for securing the tips. Really what are they thinking? My tips keep getting stuck in my ears. Any recommendation for this awful design flaw?


You can put a little ring of shrinkage tubing on the sound guide and heat it. So, this way you'll make something like a riffle to keep your tips on the headphones.


----------



## barocka

DocHoliday said:


> ******* A L E R T *******
> 
> Looks like KZ has silently modified the ZS6.
> Pay close attention.
> ...



I am looking forward to your comparison.  I hope the sounds are the same as the ZS5 v1...


----------



## Saoshyant

Considering the BA layout for ZS5 V1 had one BA in the nozzle, where this will still have two, it is unlikely that will be the outcome.  It is, however, plausible just by sheer accident.


----------



## trumpethead

Willber said:


> Even cheaper here for our US friends (as usual ):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY
> 
> ...



Got 2, 1 black 1 blue for $18 bucks shipped. Hoping there are as good as touted by folks. Also hope there is 1 year warranty included. Had durability issues with hm7's.


----------



## Podster

Willber said:


> Um, my link with the discount was to the US site...



Well I was surprised, I don't think I've ever even been to an Amazon ad that said it does not ship to the US, thanx for the other link C2.

Looking forward to your findings Doc, sure hoping they are telling the truth and not just saying it's more of a Mid-High BA! Makes me mad when they don't come on out and say the new model is a Rev. 2 with a new BA.


----------



## bsoplinger (Jan 30, 2018)

On the subject of a ZS6 v2, when @George-gearbest posted a ZS6 coupon on the deal thread I went to Gearbest to look at it. Looked at something else and wanted to get back so I searched instead of using the back key and saw this different page for a more expensive no coupon version. Note the first picture with writing that says "extra bass" and "improved cable". This is probably where the picture showing a midrange and treble BA comes from. 

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1451831.html


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well I was surprised, I don't think I've ever even been to an Amazon ad that said it does not ship to the US, thanx for the other link C2.
> 
> Looking forward to your findings Doc, sure hoping they are telling the truth and not just saying it's more of a Mid-High BA! Makes me mad when they don't come on out and say the new model is a Rev. 2 with a new BA.




I hear you. I think this is why some enthusiasts don't give them credit for being as good as they are. It's simply due to unprofessional moves like this. I curbed SoundMAGIC for doing this exact thing and I was pretty brutal about it. It is not an acceptable practice to revise your product and not revise the model#.  

KZ, if you're reading this then take note. It is unacceptable business practice to release a product in one configuration, revise the configuration and fail to indicate the revision by way of the model name or number.

Why?

Because if your customer for one reason or another needs to replace the item, he or she needs to know if it is the same product or if the product has been altered. How difficult is it to to put ZS6(ii) on the box? Two treble BA's will sound different from one treble BA coupled to one midrange BA or you wouldn't have changed it. Jimminy Crickets!!!



 

Sorry, the rest of you had to witness that but somebody had to say it. Maybe they don't know any better, but in my eyes "that dog don't hunt". Several months ago Hidizs released the Hidizs60. Recently, they revised it and it is now the Hidizs60 ii. It isn't rocket science. It is common courtesy towards your customers if you value them. Jimminy Crickets!


----------



## WalterTorino

Lord Rexter said:


> My KZ ZS6 6 pair (colormix/dual tone)  collection:


Nice collection! 
Seems like you're using QKZ's foam tips too?


----------



## barocka

DocHoliday said:


> I hear you. I think this is why some enthusiasts don't give them credit for being as good as they are. It's simply due to unprofessional moves like this. I curbed SoundMAGIC for doing this exact thing and I was pretty brutal about it. It is not an acceptable practice to revise your product and not revise the model#.
> 
> KZ, if you're reading this then take note. It is unacceptable business practice to release a product in one configuration, revise the configuration and fail to indicate the revision by way of the model name or number.
> 
> ...



I like KZ headphones very much, but I think this is the missing side of KZ.  Like what they do in ZS5 v1 and ZS5 v2.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

barocka said:


> I like KZ headphones very much, but I think this is the missing side of KZ.  Like what they do in ZS5 v1 and ZS5 v2.




....and ATE

....and ZS1

Get out your favorite KZ and listen.


----------



## Lord Rexter

WalterTorino said:


> Nice collection!
> Seems like you're using QKZ's foam tips too?


Thank you, yes you are correct QKZ and other foam tips.


----------



## Willber (Jan 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well I was surprised, I don't think I've ever even been to an Amazon ad that said it does not ship to the US.


That's strange. Also, it is cheaper to get them from there to here than from the UK site.

ETA: Does anyone know why the :cheers: smiley has shrunk?


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 30, 2018)

Willber said:


> That's strange. Also, it is cheaper to get them from there to here than from the UK site.


Such a shame that it's so expensive to get something from Amazon or Ebay here in Russia 
For example, if i want to buy Monolith from Amazon it is $150 for a headphones and $50 for a shipping... And I can't find them anywhere else 
To be clear $50 here is... hmmm... something about 36-38 (0,5 liter or ~0,13 gallon)  cans of a good beer


----------



## Willber

WalterTorino said:


> Such a shame that it's so expensive to get something from Amazon or Ebay here in Russia
> For example, if i want to buy Monolith from Amazon it is $150 for a headphones and $50 for a shipping... And I can't find them anywhere else
> To be clear $50 here is... hmmm... something about 36-38 (0,5 liter) cans of a good beer


If you mean Monoprice Monolith, they are are on sale here:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24461

I don't know about shipping costs, though.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 30, 2018)

Willber said:


> If you mean Monoprice Monolith, they are are on sale here:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24461
> 
> I don't know about shipping costs, though.


Yep, this is exactly what i'm talking about (if you mean planar IEM) 
Dammit, this webpage don't even opens on my smartphone!


----------



## Willber

WalterTorino said:


> Yep, this is exactly what i'm talking about
> Dammit, this webpage don't even opens on my smartphone!


They are $135 in the link.


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 30, 2018)

Willber said:


> They are $135 in the link.


It's a good price but i can't enter the monolith's web-page. It's strange. Another way to buy it from here - only on Amazon. Anyway, i even haven't such possibility to try to listen to it. I'm thinking about to buy it on my own risk but it will be very sad situation if i'll spend $150-200 and won't like it.


----------



## fluteloop

Lord Rexter said:


> My KZ ZS6 6 pair (colormix/dual tone)  collection:




you done good. 


----------



## Willber (Jan 30, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> It's a good price but i can't enter the monolith's web-page. It's strange. Another way to buy it from here - only on Amazon. Anyway, i even haven't such possibility to try to listen to it. I'm thinking about to buy it on my own risk but it will be very sad situation if i'll spend $150-200 and won't like it.


It's not easy to find reviews, but here are some:

https://www.cnet.com/news/monoprice-apes-audeze-with-high-tech-150-headphone/




Sorry all, going OT here, but one of the comments does mention the ZST!


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 30, 2018)

Willber said:


> It's not easy to find reviews, but here are some:
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/news/monoprice-apes-audeze-with-high-tech-150-headphone/
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot! I guess it's better to forget about Monolith cuz it's seems to be not very bassy for me
Thank you so much, my problem is solved! 
"Off-topic mode is "off"


----------



## groucho69

ETA: Does anyone know why the :cheers: smiley has shrunk? :beerchug:[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Too much beer?


----------



## nkramer

Too much beer?

NEVER!.... no such thing.


----------



## HraD2

WalterTorino said:


> Dammit, this webpage don't even opens on my smartphone!


You need American ip (or VPN), and there is no direct shipping to Russia


----------



## WalterTorino (Jan 30, 2018)

HraD2 said:


> You need American ip (or VPN), and there is no direct shipping to Russia


Ну да, уже сообразил и посмотрел (yep, already did it) 
Thank you for infomation! Anyway, seems that Monolith's are not so bassy as i'm lookin' for.


----------



## Slater

Lord Rexter said:


> My KZ ZS6 6 pair (colormix/dual tone)  collection:



Do your grey bodied ones sound any different than the others?


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Well I was surprised, I don't think I've ever even been to an Amazon ad that said it does not ship to the US, thanx for the other link C2.
> 
> Looking forward to your findings Doc, sure hoping they are telling the truth and not just saying it's more of a Mid-High BA! Makes me mad when they don't come on out and say the new model is a Rev. 2 with a new BA.



It's possible they did the changes through the crossover instead of the actual drivers...


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Yup, good 'ol BMX.
> 
> I finished restoring my '89 chrome GT Pro Performer World Tour a few years ago...good as new, and upgraded with Redline 3pc crank and Skyways like I always wanted back in the day.
> 
> Nothing like riding while jamming with some KZs



Well you and @Drumkrunk should like what this 61 year old rides these days, 29'ers anyone 40th Anniversary Santa Cruz/SE Edition






So even if KZ just changed the crossover that should be denoted and have a V2 added


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well I prefer my Reds to the black as well, keep those in my consol for when out and about. Based on the finish of the black and red ones I'm sure the gray will look far better than my gray ZS5's.
> 
> I love my carbon ZST's as they look far my professional than my colorfuls, sure wish KZ would hurry up and run the dreams again!




I wish KZ would hurry up and run these.






......and I hope those of you in need of a BT cable for your KZ noticed the post a few pages back. It has a 7+ hour battery life.


----------



## Viber

DocHoliday said:


> ......and I hope those of you in need of a BT cable for your KZ noticed the post a few pages back. It has a 7+ hour battery life.



what? where?


----------



## Willber

DocHoliday said:


> I wish KZ would hurry up and run these.


Absolutely with you 100%.
(What am I looking at?)


----------



## Podster

Ooh Doc, is that KZ's model of the Airs?

I'm with Slater @Lord Rexter , do the Gray ones sound different or at least more bassy as they are touting?


----------



## jaydm99

Willber said:


> Absolutely with you 100%.
> (What am I looking at?)


ZS10


----------



## Willber

Jay Magaling said:


> ZS10


Thanks.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Ooh Doc, is that KZ's model of the Airs?
> 
> I'm with Slater @Lord Rexter , do the Gray ones sound different or at least more bassy as they are touting?




These are reportedly the prototype of the ZS10.  Notice all of the balanced armatures. I have one more photo. I'll locate it and post it but it isn't much better than this one.





Found it.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

Viber said:


> what? where?





DocHoliday said:


> I just thought I'd chime in to see how much leveling of the playing field can be done considering the prices  [$260-IT03 vs $70-(ZS5i@$40+$30 BT cable]. Personally,  I think it's fair to factor in the separate BT cable because we're trying to gauge what you can get with your money.
> 
> One more track to add for your testing and comparison: Don't be alarmed at how distortion increases as you progress to ward the center of the track. It's not the IEM, it's how the track was mastered. I chose this track for that reason. On which IEM is it worse, the IT03 or ZS5(i). I'm asking because there have been instances when the ZS5(i) displays resonance. I'm just trying to discover if it worsens if the track contains distortion due to poor mastering or due to poor lossy files or if it occurs as a result of overlapping a particular frequency range since it has no crossover. I'll try to find a track that might exacerbate the situation with overlapping lower frequency ranges (lower midrange to upper bass), but in the meantime it will be interesting to hear your feedback. I know the ITO3 has big bass and I'm wondering how much the presentation is effected on a track like this.
> 
> ...




The first part was for Khighly since she is reviewing the iBasso ITO3 and will be doing a comparison to one of her favorite KZ's (ZS5i).


----------



## Podster

Guess I've not done a good job of keeping up with KZ's future plans, is that thing suppose to be all BA's? Are all those rectangles sticking up out of those boards BA bottoms?


----------



## MyPants

Podster said:


> Guess I've not done a good job of keeping up with KZ's future plans, is that thing suppose to be all BA's? Are all those rectangles sticking up out of those boards BA bottoms?



No, they appear to be surface-mount electrical components. Likely the crossover network.

-Edit- Also, the ZS10 is purported to be 4xBA and 1xDD.


----------



## Podster

MyPants said:


> No, they appear to be surface-mount electrical components. Likely the crossover network.
> 
> -Edit- Also, the ZS10 is purported to be 4xBA and 1xDD.



That is what I was thinking with all the drivers behind it with the exception of the two BA's


----------



## bsoplinger (Jan 30, 2018)

MyPants said:


> No, they appear to be surface-mount electrical components. Likely the crossover network.
> 
> -Edit- Also, the ZS10 is purported to be 4xBA and 1xDD.


That's what I was thinking when I saw those little rectangles also. I'd be really nice if KZ was actually using crossovers in their products. Even for the 'improvements' to the ZS6 with its separate mid and high BAs and DD. A setup like that makes me cringe at the thought of everything just being wired together. But I do seem to remember seeing, perhaps in the opened image of a ZS5 instead of ZS6, that there was a surface mount resister in there. (aren't capacitors used for simple crossovers though because they act as low (or is it high) pass filters?)


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Guess I've not done a good job of keeping up with KZ's future plans, is that thing suppose to be all BA's? Are all those rectangles sticking up out of those boards BA bottoms?




You can never be too sure what to expect with KZ. They've teased one thing and delivered something different. They teased an ATH-E70 clone but the reality was the ZSE. They teased a ZS10 then we got the plastic ZS5. It's best just to wait and see what they have concocted or we'll roll through pages of speculation. If it is in fact a multi-BA IEM, then hopefully they may have designed their own low frequency BA.  It'll be interesting to see what they've done.


----------



## Lord Rexter (Jan 30, 2018)

Slater said:


> Do your grey bodied ones sound any different than the others?



Test completed here's what I have uncovered on the Grey one (to my ears):
1. The bass is little bit stronger
2. The sound stage was a little wider
3. The bass is bleeding into the mids, but not too much though 

Test Bed:

IEMs:
KZ ZS6 Grey (around 30hrs of burn in) vs KZ ZS6 black color (around 100hrs of burn in)

Test Track: Starboy by The Weeknd

Source: 
FiiO X5 2nd Gen (with Firmware version 2.1) with FiiO L26 (3.5mm single ended to 2.5mm balanced adopter cable)

FiiO X5 3rd Gen with Firmware version 1.1.9 (balanced output) using HiByMusic v3.0.0 player

Common cable and tips:
OKCSC 0.78mm 2 Pin 2.5mm balanced cable
With 5mm Memory foam oval tips


----------



## Podster

Yes sir and I'm thinking that is why a lot of us are here To get politically correct here's an old Skool KZ shot


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Guess I've not done a good job of keeping up with KZ's future plans, is that thing suppose to be all BA's? Are all those rectangles sticking up out of those boards BA bottoms?



BTW, remember all that postulating and dreaming I was doing about the ZS6 being offered in white with brass screws? Well, looks like CA had the same idea and executed it.

BEHOLD!




 

 

 

 

Couldn't you just imagine these with the vented faceplates? No offense towards CA, but I think the ZS6 in white would look even better with brass-colored mesh in the faceplate vents, especially if the ZS6 had that lover'ly satin finish. 
......just sayin'

I hope KZ offers us a special edition of the ZS6 in white before they switch to the more rounded version coming in 2018. They can call it the ZS6-UE (Ultimate Edition) for their diehard fans.

Anyway, pull out your favorite KZ's and enjoy a track as you salivate, dream and hope that KZ hears us.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Guess I've not done a good job of keeping up with KZ's future plans, is that thing suppose to be all BA's? Are all those rectangles sticking up out of those boards BA bottoms?



The red circuit board has SMD components that look like little grains of rice - those are the resistors and capacitors that make up the crossover network.

The BA drivers are the vertically-mounted silver rectangular ‘boxes’, about 10-20xs larger in size than the SMD components on the circuit board.


----------



## TheVortex

That ZS10 prototype looks very complicated but I will wait for the eventual release. Hopefully it won't be a treble cannon.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> BTW, remember all that postulating and dreaming I was doing about the ZS6 being offered in white with brass screws? Well, looks like CA had the same idea and executed it.
> 
> BEHOLD!
> 
> ...




I don’t think it would be wise to keep copying color combinations of CA - this is why they were forced to discontinue the green color.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> BTW, remember all that postulating and dreaming I was doing about the ZS6 being offered in white with brass screws? Well, looks like CA had the same idea and executed it.
> 
> BEHOLD!
> 
> ...




I bet the ZS6 in Matte finish Snow White (Brass or Copper) screws would look better than those CA's! THX for posting that one of Amy and the boys, she has a great voice

THX for posting the breakdown @Slater


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 31, 2018)

Slater said:


> I don’t think it would be wise to keep copying color combinations of CA - this is why they were forced to discontinue the green color.



hmmmmmm.......



 

 

Funny thing is I actually prefer KZ's emerald green to CA's algae green.






Let's just hope they're listening.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Podster said:


> Ooh Doc, is that KZ's model of the Airs?
> 
> I'm with Slater @Lord Rexter , do the Gray ones sound different or at least more bassy as they are touting?



Please see my test findings here. Hope that helps.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> I bet the ZS6 in Matte finish Snow White (Brass or Copper) screws would look better than those CA's! THX for posting that one of Amy and the boys, she has a great voice
> 
> THX for posting the breakdown @Slater



Yeah, I bet copper would look great as well, especially if they shipped it with a copper upgrade cable like the iBasso CB13. Basically a copper version of the second image.


----------



## Willber

Why is it that IEM makers are going down the multiple-driver route when the larger forms (buds, on-ears, over-ears, etc) continue to make do with one?


----------



## Podster (Jan 30, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> hmmmmmm.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well they are for sure not a direct copy, where the cable meets the CA the housing is round and if you look the ZS6 is squared off next to the body of the shell, the side indicator is located down on the next tier of the KZ, CA is MMCX vs. 2 pin, the nozzle appears to be stainless (appears being the key word here) and beefier on the CA, screws on the CA seem beefier as well with smaller star inserts. Legally I don't think CA has a leg to stand on when it comes to copy rights! Sure they are similar in shell design but far from a direct copy IMO.

The CA's in this shot really look heavy or at least heavier than my ZS6's, I know the weights are minute but things do add up. Pretty sure an MMCX connection is heavier than a 2 pin setup. Heck we may eventually find out both CA and KZ ZS5/6 shells come off the same production line somewhere Just sayin' even if that is far fetched Don't tell CA but I actually find the fit/finish and final execution on the ZS6 to be cleaner than either the white or gray pair Doc posted. Probably have a contract put out on me for that statement alone

Seriously Clean


----------



## DocHoliday

Willber said:


> Why is it that IEM makers are going down the multiple-driver route when the larger forms (buds, on-ears, over-ears, etc) continue to make do with one?




It's likely because there is a great deal of praise in the upper tiers of IEMs that contain BAs because of the noticeable increase in resolution. Nobody wants to be perceived as obsolete or passe so to keep up with the Jones' they follow suit. Balanced armatures definitely offer a great option for IEMs but graphene an beryllium DD's are pushing the envelope and improving what DD's can offer as well.

Some folks don't care for the analytical nature of BAs. They prefer the warmth and fullness a DD can deliver and of course the opposite is true. Then we have the hybrids. In the end it's all about preference and choice.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well they are for sure not a direct copy, where the cable meets the CA the housing is round and if you look the ZS6 is squared off next to the body of the shell, the side indicator is located down on the next tier of the KZ, CA is MMCX vs. 2 pin, the nozzle appears to be stainless (appears being the key word here) and beefier on the CA, screws on the CA seem beefier as well with smaller star inserts. Legally I don't think CA has a leg to stand on when it comes to copy rights! Sure they are similar in shell design but far from a direct copy IMO.
> 
> The CA's in this shot really look heavy or at least heavier than my ZS6's, I know the weights are minute but things do add up. Pretty sure an MMCX connection is heavier than a 2 pin setup. Heck we may eventually find out both CA and KZ ZS5/6 shells come off the same production line somewhere Just sayin' even if that is far fetched Don't tell CA but I actually find the fit/finish and final execution on the ZS6 to be cleaner than either the white or gray pair Doc posted. Probably have a contract put out on me for that statement alone
> 
> Seriously Clean




Once again, I am redundant because we are in total agreement and I bet a satin white ZS6 would, to my eyes, look better than the CA I posted. No offense CA.


----------



## groucho69

nkramer said:


> Too much beer?
> 
> NEVER!.... no such thing.


----------



## nkramer

now you're talking! lol


----------



## Podster

groucho69 said:


>



LOL. that is from my home town @groucho69 

or better yet! Chocolate Cheers





Proud to be redundant Doc I thought the Pewter ZS6 had an upgraded cable? Looks same as it ever was in that shot?


----------



## Saoshyant

@Podster You're an Austinite?  The beer for the cost of the 99 pack was reasonable.  Rather decent summer beer for when you need to cool off.  I did do one of the 99 packs for a party.  Nobody got their keys back until morning, nor did a beer survive.


----------



## Podster

Saoshyant said:


> @Podster You're an Austinite?  The beer for the cost of the 99 pack was reasonable.  Rather decent summer beer for when you need to cool off.  I did do one of the 99 packs for a party.  Nobody got their keys back until morning, nor did a beer survive.



Indeed I am, have shut down the Draught House more times than I can count, Dog & Duck still crying to this day that they shut down the Tamale House on Airport. My eldest som is co-owner of a very cool place in South Austin (BubbaVille). I've lived all over town, my good buddy Ruben used to date Jimmy Vaghn's daughter for years. My last residence was just off 45th by the blind school. Been several 99 packs out at lake Travis for a day of Jet Skiing


----------



## riffrafff

Slater said:


> I don’t think it would be wise to keep copying color combinations of CA - this is why they were forced to discontinue the green color.



I still don't see how that can be enforced.  How can you copyright/trademark a *color?*


----------



## chinmie

does the KZ bluetooth cable compatible with the TFZ King? also does the latest version (4.2) support aptx and have low latency to watch movies?


----------



## bhazard

Just got my ZSR but haven't had time to listen to them (also got the LZ-a5). What do people think of it?


----------



## Saoshyant

Podster said:


> Indeed I am, have shut down the Draught House more times than I can count, Dog & Duck still crying to this day that they shut down the Tamale House on Airport. My eldest som is co-owner of a very cool place in South Austin (BubbaVille). I've lived all over town, my good buddy Ruben used to date Jimmy Vaghn's daughter for years. My last residence was just off 45th by the blind school. Been several 99 packs out at lake Travis for a day of Jet Skiing



Must have driven by the Draught House a hundred times to go get sushi nearby.  Was always a north Austin resident out by Mansfield Dam, Round Rock, Pfluggerville.   Lived there 23 years until a couple years ago for family reasons.

To get back on track, I think I'll wait a few weeks to give the new ZS6 some times to properly get into stock and order during a gearbest sale.  Wouldn't mind seeing the change for myself.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 31, 2018)

Podster said:


> LOL. that is from my home town @groucho69
> 
> or better yet! Chocolate Cheers
> 
> ...



I'm hoping that that is just an old PR photo. Otherwise, we are talking about false advertising which means things just went from bad to worse. I will give KZ the benefit of the doubt that all current shipments have a "better" cable. But more importantly we need to confirm that KZ has in fact officially stated that they will include a better cable. This thread is the first place I heard mention of it. The ZS6, being their flagship IEM, should have had it's own cable to begin with. The included cable was simply sourced from the curvy ZS3. I don't think Knowledge Zenith is as hungry as they once were.  

Remember the days when you received a lover'ly shield shaped case in which the IEM was carefully packed in precision cut foam for each particular IEM (ED9, ED10, ATE,etc.). Remember the silk-like plastic bags that contained the eartips. I still have them. Knowledge Zenith always under-promised and over-delivered. Sure we can still say that that is true, but a disposable cardboard box just doesn't give you that sense that you used to get. I still use my ED9 and ED10 cases to store the earphones that came in the cases.  

Bottom line:
 Coming out strong sets the expectation.  
 

Cutting corners makes one reconsider.
 

Great 80's track with the ES3.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 31, 2018)

Podster said:


> LOL. that is from my home town @groucho69
> 
> or better yet! Chocolate Cheers
> 
> ...



Sorry, double post.


----------



## Podster (Jan 30, 2018)

Too late, ordered my gray ones from gearbest today!

Heck Doc I still have two three shield boxes, matter a fact you can put a FiiO M3 and your ED9/10's in one


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Too late, ordered my gray ones from gearbest today!
> 
> Heck Doc I still have two three shield boxes, matter a fact you can put a FiiO M3 and your ED9/10's in one




Yeah, I have five or six shield cases. It's cool you can fit a DAP and IEM in it. 

I was always curious.; how much do you like your Fiio M3 and does it still get 20+ hours of use per charge?


----------



## Saoshyant

...I totally forgot I own a Fiio M3.  Not sure I've seen it in over a year.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, I have five or six shield cases. It's cool you can fit a DAP and IEM in it.
> 
> I was always curious.; how much do you like your Fiio M3 and does it still get 20+ hours of use per charge?



Thing is deader than a doorknob! Picked it up one day and it would not come on, put it on the charger and nothing. Pinged FiiO rep in here and nothing and I mean zero help. When it ran it was sweet, gave Wokei a black one and it still works great to the best of my knowledge but mine has been Catatonic for over a year now!


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 31, 2018)

Podster said:


> Thing is deader than a doorknob! Picked it up one day and it would not come on, put it on the charger and nothing. Pinged FiiO rep in here and nothing and I mean zero help. When it ran it was sweet, gave Wokei a black one and it still works great to the best of my knowledge but mine has been Catatonic for over a year now!



I think both of my ZuneHDs (2009) still work great because I use them regularly. Same with every DAP I own.

You'll probably receive your ZS6 before I receive mine so you'll know about the "better cable" thing before me. It will be interesing to hear reviews of the the ZSR. My guess is that it will sound like a more detailed ES3 with wider and deeper soundstage due to the bulbous faceplate.  We'll see.


----------



## khighly

IT03 is close to what I remember the ZS6 signature to be, except it doesn't have the ringing sibilance that takes forever to get used to. I still remember the ZS6 having a larger soundstage that flowed around you. I wish I still had my ZS6's — all I have is one side now .

Listening to BB King - Live at the Regal on Modi 2/Magni 3. Switching between ZS5 and IT03.


----------



## bsoplinger

riffrafff said:


> I still don't see how that can be enforced.  How can you copyright/trademark a *color?*


Look up UPS and how they enforce their copyright of UPS brown. Heck model makers have to pay a licensing fee just to make models of their trucks. So it can be done. At least in the USA and with an army of lawyers.


----------



## DocHoliday

khighly said:


> IT03 is close to what I remember the ZS6 signature to be, except it doesn't have the ringing sibilance that takes forever to get used to. I still remember the ZS6 having a larger soundstage that flowed around you. I wish I still had my ZS6's — all I have is one side now .
> 
> Listening to BB King - Live at the Regal on Modi 2/Magni 3. Switching between ZS5 and IT03.




Thanks.

Take your time 

.....but keep it coming.


----------



## HiFiChris

Lord Rexter said:


> My KZ ZS6 6 pair (colormix/dual tone)  collection:



You need yet another pair so you have one for every day of the week.


----------



## khighly

IT03's are more bright, but a pleasant bright that isn't overwhelming. When I put my ZS5's in, they sound very dark compared.

On to Tame Impala - Innerspeaker for the mastering and the really great crunchy distortion.

This is tough though  They have somewhat different sound signatures. ZS5 has more lows and mid bass, IT03's bass sounds very neutral and in line everything else. Soundstage is larger in the ZS5's. You get more depth to the sound. 

EDM is better on the ZS5's.


----------



## Lord Rexter

HiFiChris said:


> You need yet another pair so you have one for every day of the week.


Yes Sir right you are. Can't wait for KZ to release White or Blue color. That will make my collection complete


----------



## CoiL

Jay Magaling said:


> I've actually redone mine last night. Sanded it down more (I used Scotch-Brite ) and used better quality paint. Not too thick, I've only used half of the 400cc can. After that I was hearing driver flex when I insert them, until I realized that I have to clear the paint-clogged vent holes. IMO this ZS5 is more ergonomic now. Sits perfectly on my ear.
> 
> Just waiting now for my T400 foams from eBay (US$ 1.8/4 pairs!!!)
> 
> ...


Very nice work! Will also do it for my ZS5v1. Planned reshelling with wood but no time off from baby....



Willber said:


> I don't have the ZS5, but my AAW Nebula One are better in every way than my ZS6.
> 
> https://www.null-audio.com/collecti...ticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor
> 
> I was lucky enough to get mine in a flash sale for $30. The only downside is the non-changeable cable.


Can You please explain more what is better with nebula than ZS6 ? Can You also compare to ZS5v1 ?



kazuma2017 said:


>


Uuuuh... Oooohhh... oh no... KZ still not upping the game... just releasing new new (same) IEMs all over.... in different shell.


stryed said:


> You should give them a closer listen. I'm not too shocked by your comment as I don't think my 100 eu IT01 blows the KZ5 out of the water. The 20 eu KZ5 blows away some cheap 5 euro ones for sure.


Was planning to get IT01 soon but this made me cautious... IT01 is not worth price jump over ZS5v1 ?



Willber said:


> You're right, they are great! Better than the ZS6 and almost a match for my $100 AAW Nebula One in all areas. Very quick delivery from here, too:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07428VM2Q/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item
> 
> ...


Really? UiiSii CM5 is so good? What is better than ZS6 ?



RomStar said:


> Not to detract from current conversations but,
> Does anyone know the key differences between kz Ate, Ate-S and ATR?
> 
> 2 weeks ago, I ordered the Ate-S, with my intention of doing the FF mods (thanks to guides from coil and slater)
> ...


ATE-S might have different drivers inside but not sure. My bet is on regular ATE (current is 5th gen) with metal cable weigths.
But You do understand that FF-mod is not so simple (the nozzle change part) and requires ED9 brass nozzles?

Btw, ED9 golden nozzles have changed at some point (slightly larger nozzle hole size).


----------



## Willber

khighly said:


> IT03 is close to what I remember the ZS6 signature to be, except it doesn't have the ringing sibilance that takes forever to get used to. I still remember the ZS6 having a larger soundstage that flowed around you.


I use EQ and the profile I applied to the CM5 is the same as I used for the ZS6 because the signature is so similar. However, the CM5 has smoother highs as well as a bigger (deeper) soundstage. I'm not talking huge margins here, but it is overall a more immersive and natural sound, .


----------



## Willber

CoiL said:


> Can You please explain more what is better with nebula than ZS6 ? Can You also compare to ZS5v1 ?


To keep it brief, the Nebula One has a deeper soundstage, tighter bass, fuller mids, and less sibilance with more detail than the ZS6. Overall a sweeter, more natural sound. In a word: Nebula One - Analogue; ZS6 - Digital. It's what I would expect from a $100 earphone. 

I don't have the ZS5 (1 or 2) to compare.


CoiL said:


> Really? UiiSii CM5 is so good? What is better than ZS6 ?


See my reply to @khighly above. I would say that the ZS6 is 85% of the Nebula One, while the CM5 is 95%.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 31, 2018)

Willber said:


> To keep it brief, the Nebula One has a deeper soundstage, tighter bass, fuller mids, and* less sibilance with more detail *than the ZS6. Overall a sweeter, more natural sound. In a word: Nebula One - Analogue; ZS6 - Digital. It's what I would expect from a $100 earphone.
> I don't have the ZS5 (1 or 2) to compare.
> See my reply to @khighly above. I would say that the ZS6 is 85% of the Nebula One, while the CM5 is 95%.


By_ less sibilance _You mean N1 still has some sibilance? I`m sensitive to FR around 6.2-7.5kHz and overall like rather slightly smooth/warmish highs (but not muddy/soft).

AAW Nebula One was one of the candidates along with IT01 but for some reason (I did some reading) I ditched it (don`t remember why, maybe because whole package I get as extra with IT01).
Seems I have to do more research about N1.

More important for me is question - what is Your source gear and music used with ZS6 vs. CM5 vs. N1? 
And what tips You use with all those 3 ? I have to say foams are 111% OUT for me - I hate them.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 31, 2018)

khighly said:


> IT03 is close to what I remember the ZS6 signature to be, except it doesn't have the ringing sibilance that takes forever to get used to. I still remember the ZS6 having a larger soundstage that flowed around you. I wish I still had my ZS6's — all I have is one side now .
> 
> Listening to BB King - Live at the Regal on Modi 2/Magni 3. Switching between ZS5 and IT03.



Color me surprised. This will serve as a reminder to me not to assume things. 

"IT03 is close to what I remember the ZS6 signature to be, except it doesn't have the ringing sibilance that takes forever to get used to. I still remember the ZS6 having a larger soundstage that flowed around you. I wish I still had my ZS6's — all I have is one side now."

Your description of the IT03, thus far is welcome news. Hopefully, the IT03 presents a lot of micro-detail. It looks like the configuration for the ZS6 has recently been revised so we'll have to see how those changes effect the treble. Apparently, Knowledge Zenith has done away with the "two ultra-high frequency BAs" in the ZS6 and is now equipping them with "one treble BA" and "one midrange BA". I suppose the new configuration will be dubbed the ZS6(ii) or something equivalent moving forward, so, unfortunately for you, a comparison to the ZS6(i) seems less likely at this point unless someone on this thread for one reason or another gifts you the missing ZS6 earpiece. Just a suggestion, but don't toss that one ZS6 earpiece just yet. I'll bet that in the ensuing months someone will experience loss or failure of one of their ZS6 earpieces and that may hold some possibilities, so with a great community, a little time and a little luck......

"This is tough though They have somewhat different sound signatures."

"IT03's are more bright, but a pleasant bright that isn't overwhelming."

"When I put my ZS5's in, they sound very dark compared."

This doesn't surprise me. I always found the ZS5(i) to be a bit darker/warmer.
The ZS5(i) always sounded like a smooth laid back presentation to me that comes alive when I give them more volume. They actually remind me of the ATE(ii) but with more width and depth. My preferred sound signature requires a little more energy with a healthy dose of micro-detail so the ATE(ii) and ZS5(i) get less ear time than my ZS6, ES3 and ZST, but again, that comes down to personal preference. It sounds like you're enjoying the IT03's brighter presentation, but missing the ZS6's soundstage. 

"ZS5 has more lows and mid bass, IT03's bass sounds very neutral and in line everything else. Soundstage is larger in the ZS5's. You get more depth to the sound."

"Neutral bass" sounds quite different from what I was expecting from the IT03. I was thinking that the IT03 would have more lift in the lower frequencies, not necessarily more than the ZS5(i), just in general.

"EDM is better on the ZS5's."

This part definitely surprised me considering their darker nature.

Looking forward to more input.

Thanks

BTW, a little something to test the timbre in the midrange?


----------



## kylemd

Reading through this thread is making me concerned about the ZSRs I have coming from Gearbest and whether I should get foam tips for them...

Is there any consensus as to what size tips they're meant to fit?


----------



## kiler

If you get the comply T400 it should probably fit


----------



## Podster

HiFiChris said:


> You need yet another pair so you have one for every day of the week.



I was thinking his collection would make great Christmas Ornaments on a mini (Desk Size) tree


----------



## Viber

kylemd said:


> Reading through this thread is making me concerned about the ZSRs I have coming from Gearbest and whether I should get foam tips for them...
> 
> Is there any consensus as to what size tips they're meant to fit?



It's hard to fit tips on them, but regular silicone tips work fine eventually. If you get foams then only T400 or bigger will fit.


----------



## RomStar

CoiL said:


> ATE-S might have different drivers inside but not sure. My bet is on regular ATE (current is 5th gen) with metal cable weigths.
> But You do understand that FF-mod is not so simple (the nozzle change part) and requires ED9 brass nozzles?
> 
> Btw, ED9 golden nozzles have changed at some point (slightly larger nozzle hole size).



Ah thanks for the reply, 

It's a shame, I already ordered the Ate-S a few weeks ago. A quick Google search didn't help I guess, I thought it would be the same drivers 

Also, I am planning on doing at FF mods, without the brass rings. As far as I remember, it's very tricky trying to allign them on. I'm also a total novice which doesn't help. Let's see how badly I mess up the mod 



CoiL said:


> Uuuuh... Oooohhh... oh no... KZ still not upping the game... just releasing new new (same) IEMs all over.... in different shell.



Actually I share some very similar concerns, but I'm willing to give KZ benefit of the doubt here 

I'm just excited to see how they execute the Zs10/Zsr Pro. After all, I'm very hopeful and think they've worked on a new BA driver for sure 

Otherwise I can't see them waiting 1+ year on that iem. This also leads me to believe the Zs7 will house those newer low frequency BA and I'll be hoping they have crossing over (idk I just can't see them churning out the same stuff, I'm hopeful they will tune these iems quite differently)


----------



## F4yze (Feb 6, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> DC resistance of KZ cables (read by DMMs), in ohms (left, right, and ground):
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6) plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings)   0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40  <- this is number one (above post)
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6+trim) plated+metal plug+6cords   0.42/43/45/52/42/43 0.43/43/45/44/43/44 0.44/43/45/42/44/43  <- this is number two
> kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6) plated (4cords,white,gearbest)       0.63/76   0.60/62   0.61/83
> ...



Someone please help inform me. Previously I was using the KZ ofc upgrade cable in copper colour, which I believed to be the "kz zs3/zs6 ofc plated (4cords,grey,"new")" quoted above. The bass I got from that cable was perfect. Deep rumble without drowning out the mids and highs. Today I purchased the number 1 cable you recommended so I hope it would be a better improvement. I probably should have just bought the same ofc cable but there's that tiny bit of hope in my mind that the cable you recommend would be better.


----------



## Willber (Jan 31, 2018)

CoiL said:


> By_ less sibilance _You mean N1 still has some sibilance? I`m sensitive to FR around 6.2-7.5kHz and overall like rather slightly smooth/warmish highs (but not muddy/soft).
> 
> AAW Nebula One was one of the candidates along with IT01 but for some reason (I did some reading) I ditched it (don`t remember why, maybe because whole package I get as extra with IT01).
> Seems I have to do more research about N1.
> ...


I might be wrong, but I thought all earphones produced *some *sibilance by the nature of the sounds in the music, and that *excessive *sibilance was the problem? Sorry if that is not correct. I too am sensitive to the higher frequencies (the main reason I use EQ) and have rated the phones according to my tastes. With the ZS6 there was a trade-off between reducing sibilance and retaining detail using EQ that I didn't find with the others.

Although many would call them 'budget', I wouldn't want to spend $100 on earphones (although I did buy the B&W P5), but I was lucky to find the N1 for $30 in a Nullaudio flash sale the same day I saw them recommended (on reddit), so I was fortunate to get a bargain.

Most of my listening (and all of it for recent comparisons) is done on a Lenovo laptop using 250+bps mp3 files via the APO/PEACE equaliser program. Tips used are: ZS6 - triple silicone; N1 - triple silicone; CM5 - stock silicone from ZS3.


----------



## CoiL

RomStar said:


> Ah thanks for the reply,
> 
> It's a shame, I already ordered the Ate-S a few weeks ago. A quick Google search didn't help I guess, I thought it would be the same drivers
> 
> Also, I am planning on doing at FF mods, without the brass rings. As far as I remember, it's very tricky trying to allign them on. I'm also a total novice which doesn't help. Let's see how badly I mess up the mod



As I said, not sure S version has different drivers (even if they look same, maybe different tuning).
And You can`t do FF-mod without nozzle change  (it`s kind of essence of FF-mod).


----------



## riffrafff

bsoplinger said:


> Look up UPS and how they enforce their copyright of UPS brown. Heck model makers have to pay a licensing fee just to make models of their trucks. So it can be done. At least in the USA and with an army of lawyers.



"Lawyers will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes."


----------



## Strat Rider (Jan 31, 2018)

ZSR has arrived!
FWIW these are my thoughts and impressions and not endorsed by management, or mis-management. Your mileage will vary

Out of the box I installed one medium starline tip, (2 ears and one of these things is not like the other)

Tuned my iPod 5th gen touch to some Samantha Fish blues and my first impression was....pretty impressive.

I enjoyed the tamed down-not so shrill highs.
This is the first time that using the included Starlines, I did not feel the immediate need to reach for the foamies.

I earlier in the day I was listening my unmodified (yet) ZS6, and to my ears this sounds like they are the " brother of another mother" compared to the ZS6.

The mids are recessed, but not muddy, EQ ing will probably help, and Sub bass, and bass is better controlled  and lighter to the 6.

Sibilence seems very well controlled,

Comfort for me took a little work with insertion depth. I did find that the nozzle allows for a little room to move the included tips towards or away from the body of the iem.
Myself, I like iem's to tickle my brain when comfortably inserted and sealed.

Tonight I intend to plug them into my trusty old Fiio X-11, and CMOY 2.06 & amp them up a bit for some Classical, and Southern Rock.

First impressions:These are going to cost me more than the incredible deal of the flash buy, I may need to shop for a real DAP!

Of course again YMMV

EDIT: I forgot to mention during the comfort setup, I did change to identical cable WITHOUT over ear wire. With the earwire, a comfortable fit was impossible.


----------



## mrmoto050

khighly said:


> IT03's are more bright, but a pleasant bright that isn't overwhelming. When I put my ZS5's in, they sound very dark compared.
> 
> On to Tame Impala - Innerspeaker for the mastering and the really great crunchy distortion.
> 
> ...


Just curious, are you volume matching these taking in consideration of different impedance (Z)of devices? You may be getting differences in sound just due to volume levels.


----------



## riffrafff

Viber said:


> It's hard to fit tips on them, but regular silicone tips work fine eventually. If you get foams then only T400 or bigger will fit.



The best fit and seal, for me, on the ZSRs so far is this:

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_707824.html

YMMV.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Look up UPS and how they enforce their copyright of UPS brown. Heck model makers have to pay a licensing fee just to make models of their trucks. So it can be done. At least in the USA and with an army of lawyers.



Yup, many ways - trademark, design patent, etc.

Fluke was/is actively suing (and winning) companies who make YELLOW multimeters. Yellow is just a color of a product, just like a green IEM. The case that's made by these companies is that it can cause consumer confusion. If you went up to the average Joe on the street (who have never seen KZ or CA IEMs), and showed them the green ZS6 next to the green CA, and asked them to guess which one is which (like the Pepsi Challenge), you'd probably get about 50% answers confusing one for the other.

The point is that there's a 'mysterious reason' why KZ all of the sudden discontinued the green ZS6. That color was one of the best sellers as far as I could tell.


----------



## stryed

CoiL said:


> Very nice work! Will also do it for my ZS5v1. Planned reshelling with wood but no time off from baby....
> 
> 
> Can You please explain more what is better with nebula than ZS6 ? Can You also compare to ZS5v1 ?
> ...



Oh I have no regrets for the IT01. Better in everything except for soundstage perhaps. Everything is  more enjoyable. KZ5v2 is just such a great value at 16eu. IT01 is said to have a cable that could probably retail well over 50eu though!


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> I think both of my ZuneHDs (2009) still work great because I use them regularly. Same with every DAP I own.
> 
> You'll probably receive your ZS6 before I receive mine so you'll know about the "better cable" thing before me. It will be interesing to hear reviews of the the ZSR. My guess is that it will sound like a more detailed ES3 with wider and deeper soundstage due to the bulbous faceplate.  We'll see.



Like it was made for this setup


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> …Was planning to get IT01 soon but this made me cautious... IT01 is not worth price jump over ZS5v1 ?
> 
> 
> Really? UiiSii CM5 is so good? What is better than ZS6 ?…





stryed said:


> Oh I have no regrets for the IT01. Better in everything except for soundstage perhaps. Everything is  more enjoyable. KZ5v2 is just such a great value at 16eu. IT01 is said to have a cable that could probably retail well over 50eu though!


What he said about the iBasso IT01. You know you've spent some more than on the KZ product. My biggest issue with either the ZS5 V2 or ZS6 was fitment. Fixed that by buying foamies with a smaller nozzle diameter (4.0mm and 4.5mm, I used one of each size on the 2 different models) and I was happy enough with the results. But the IT01 really do sound smoother, more coherent across the whole spectrum. Without the slightly harsh treble peak. Very sensitive to both ear tip choice and to a lesser degree amplifier power (I really mean the ohm rating and just cannot remember the term I need). That is to say that they sound good with something like your phone but really shine with a DAP with a bit of power. 

As far as the UiiSii CM5, I have a pair. Listened briefly. Again a fitment issue. So I didn't wear them too much so didn't get a great listen. But for the $10-$15 you can often find them for a rather decent sound with nothing standing out in my memory as either very well nor poorly done. They do sound better than you'd expect for the price. Sorry I can't offer a better comparison.


----------



## C2thew

bsoplinger said:


> What he said about the iBasso IT01. You know you've spent some more than on the KZ product. My biggest issue with either the ZS5 V2 or ZS6 was fitment. Fixed that by buying foamies with a smaller nozzle diameter (4.0mm and 4.5mm, I used one of each size on the 2 different models) and I was happy enough with the results. But the IT01 really do sound smoother, more coherent across the whole spectrum. Without the slightly harsh treble peak. Very sensitive to both ear tip choice and to a lesser degree amplifier power (I really mean the ohm rating and just cannot remember the term I need). That is to say that they sound good with something like your phone but really shine with a DAP with a bit of power.
> 
> As far as the UiiSii CM5, I have a pair. Listened briefly. Again a fitment issue. So I didn't wear them too much so didn't get a great listen. But for the $10-$15 you can often find them for a rather decent sound with nothing standing out in my memory as either very well nor poorly done. They do sound better than you'd expect for the price. Sorry I can't offer a better comparison.



The UiiSii CM5's look ilke they are only single driver IEM's, much like the KZ ZS3's.  I'm kind of finding it weird how it is being compared to the ZS6 since it has 4 drivers.  I'm guessing it's giving the ZS6 a run for the money since it sounds clearer, but would the difference be as similar if one were to do the ZS6 foam "slaters" mod of putting foam into both high frequency BA's of the ZS6?

It looks like the CM5's would be more comfortable compared to the ZS6 since it is smaller and lighter, but the ZS3 still seems (at least for me) to be the winner in terms of fit and passive noise isolation.


----------



## CoiL

bsoplinger said:


> What he said about the iBasso IT01. But the *IT01 really do sound smoother, more coherent across the whole spectrum. Without the slightly harsh treble peak.* Very sensitive to both *ear tip choice and to a lesser degree amplifier power* (I really mean the ohm rating and just cannot remember the term I need). That is to say that they sound good with something like your phone but *really shine with a DAP with a bit of power. *


Hehe... seems I`m still going with the IT01 and it just wants to marry with my iBasso DX5X ;P  Planning the wedding date and theme colors will be in red&blue, lol.


----------



## Podster

riffrafff said:


> "Lawyers will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes."



LOL, that reminds me of when Jim Belushi in the movie Red Heat asked Arnold how the Chinese took care of their crooked politicians and Arnold told him they just lined them all up and shot them!

KZ fans unite


----------



## bsoplinger

Always hated the feeling of triple flanges although I did manage to get a decent seal with them on problem IEMs. On a positive note, I like my pair of black KZ ED9. Almost as nice for napping or sleeping as the ED2.


----------



## Strat Rider

riffrafff said:


> The best fit and seal, for me, on the ZSRs so far is this:
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_707824.html
> 
> YMMV.


I think I am going to give these tips a try, before I order more starlines


----------



## Podster (Jan 31, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Always hated the feeling of triple flanges although I did manage to get a decent seal with them on problem IEMs. On a positive note, I like my pair of black KZ ED9. Almost as nice for napping or sleeping as the ED2.



Let the Pod tell you an old story on those triple flanges, many years back I had a pair of iem's that the only good seal I got with them were these triple flanges so I'm thinking I need to get a few back up pairs. Hit some AliEx seller up for what I thought at $10 was going to be a dozen pair, package comes (obviously by Chinese Junk) a month later and I have one of those 5 X 7 white and clear zip-locks with what must be 1000 triple flanges I have probably shipped 10 -12 pairs to guys over the years now and that bag still looks like it has 1000 tips in it

Here's a KZ I liked but I'm thinking I was in a minority Original amped ZN1 strapped to my Shanling M2






Did you mean black like these black ones


----------



## Podster

I'm not going to go into the deal where someone may have copied CA but what do you think Shure did when YHC released these "Little Stinkers" Believe it or not for $3.96  I was very impressed with these especially the bass output


----------



## Lord Rexter

@Podster love the KZ ZN1 amp version, wish KZ re-release them so I can add them to my KZ (crazy) collection


----------



## C2thew

does anyone know if this supports bluetooth aptx hd?  i'm not sure if bluetooth 4.1 automatically correlates to aptx hd or does it just send the battery percentage to the phone that supports bluetooth 4.1 and above?


----------



## Podster

Lord Rexter said:


> @Podster love the KZ ZN1 amp version, wish KZ re-release them so I can add them to my KZ (crazy) collection



Yeah, that is one I won't ever let go of since I knew it was a one run effort! I also prefer my ZN1 mini to all the others in that shell, plus the mega thick garden hose just makes people go WOW when they see them

I even came up with this wicked way to wear my ZN1's





About to cut out for the day but I'm sure these will bring back some memories plus make a few Jelli (Not mentioning any names Doc) LOL


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Let the Pod tell you an old story on those triple flanges, many years back I had a pair of iem's that the only good seal I got with them were these triple flanges so I'm thinking I need to get a few back up pairs. Hit some AliEx seller up for what I thought at $10 was going to be a dozen pair, package comes (obviously by Chinese Junk) a month later and I have one of those 5 X 7 white and clear zip-locks with what must be 1000 triple flanges I have probably shipped 10 -12 pairs to guys over the years now and that bag still looks like it has 1000 tips in it
> 
> Here's a KZ I liked but I'm thinking I was in a minority Original amped ZN1 strapped to my Shanling M2
> 
> ...



So jealous bro - my ZN1 died about a few months after I got it. I totally enjoyed them for those brief few months though.

I took the amp apart and tried to fix it, but it literally fell apart. The soldering of the SMD components and wiring as well as the quality of the circuit board was atrocious - if you did as much as breathe on the wires (which were as thin as a hair aka like 90 gauge), they lifted off the board (soldering pad and all) with no way to reattach. I finally gave up, salvaged the wire and shells, and junked the box. I rewired them and turned them into a ZN1 Mini LOL


----------



## durwood (Jan 31, 2018)

C2thew said:


> The UiiSii CM5's look ilke they are only single driver IEM's, much like the KZ ZS3's.  I'm kind of finding it weird how it is being compared to the ZS6 since it has 4 drivers.  I'm guessing it's giving the ZS6 a run for the money since it sounds clearer, but would the difference be as similar if one were to do the ZS6 foam "slaters" mod of putting foam into both high frequency BA's of the ZS6?
> 
> It looks like the CM5's would be more comfortable compared to the ZS6 since it is smaller and lighter, but the ZS3 still seems (at least for me) to be the winner in terms of fit and passive noise isolation.



Took a bite on that amazon deal on the CM5, I would not compare them to ZS6 at all if the ZS5v2 are close (I don't have a ZS6 to compare with yet). A lot less treble than the ZS5v2 and a slightly more subbassy (just a touch) version of a ZS3, that is my initial first impression. They fit me really well and I decided just to throw the ZS3 tips on them. I always have to fight with ZS3 to get them positioned right in my ear canal with either not enough seal or too much using the included tips, these popped right in with the same ZS3 tips no problem for me. They have a non-fatiguing dark sound quality to them, meaning they are tilted to the bass end of the spectrum.


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> Took a bite on that amazon deal on the CM5, I would not compare them to ZS6 at all if the ZS5v2 are close (I don't have a ZS6 to compare with yet). A lot less treble than the ZS5v2 and a slightly more subbassy (just a touch) version of a ZS3, that is my initial first impression. They fit me really well and I decided just to throw the ZS3 tips on them. I always have to fight with ZS3 to get them positioned right in my ear canal with either not enough seal or too much using the included tips, these popped right in with the same ZS3 tips no problem for me. They have a non-fatiguing dark sound quality to them, meaning they are tilted to the bass end of the spectrum.



Try them with the KZ Starline tips (ie ZS5, ZS6 tips). They are an improvement over the ZS3 tips (at least with me).

Also, if you swap the stock mesh with standard stainless mesh, it makes an improvement to the treble and will decrease the boomy subbass.

As far as the amount of treble, they definitely don't have the 10k spike that the ZS5v3 and ZS6 do - those have 2 ultra-high frequency BA drivers blasting into your eardrum like laser beams. But the CM5 has a decent amount of bright sparkly treble that I think is balanced compared to the rest of the frequencies.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Yeah, that is one I won't ever let go of since I knew it was a one run effort! I also prefer my ZN1 mini to all the others in that shell, plus the mega thick garden hose just makes people go WOW when they see them
> 
> I even came up with this wicked way to wear my ZN1's
> 
> ...




Definitely jealous! Always wanted the ZN1 with the amp just for the novelty of them. 

......and what have we here?  An old skool KZ that is STILL UNOPENED in the plastic. 

Talk about a treasure chest!

 ...and those ED11s......talk about rare! I think those are my favorite of the bunch. 

If you say you have the ANV and the Micro-Rings then I'll get my binky and blanky .........and sulk.

I've always said that if you see one really beautiful woman at some point in your day then you can consider that a good day, 

......but those KZ's sure are headturners. 

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Pod! Much appreciated! Much!

Speaking of memory lane......  pick a KZ.......  plug them in.......  and enjoy.....


----------



## khighly

DocHoliday said:


> Color me surprised. This will serve as a reminder to me not to assume things.
> 
> "IT03 is close to what I remember the ZS6 signature to be, except it doesn't have the ringing sibilance that takes forever to get used to. I still remember the ZS6 having a larger soundstage that flowed around you. I wish I still had my ZS6's — all I have is one side now."
> 
> ...




I may buy another ZS6 in a few weeks when everyone blows through some current stock so I can get the new ones.

IMO, IT03's have the better sound signature, but the IT03's don't have the low extension and don't have the bass response to really carry EDM. Sub bass is definitely up 3-5dB on the ZS5's which makes for a good amount of lows while not really overpowering anything. I also find the soundstage surprisingly narrow and lackluster compared to the ZS5's. I also notice everything in the soundstage is backwards and I've noticed this on serveral KZ IEM's. Things that flow to the left in the ZS5's, flow to the right in the IT03's. The IT03's have what seems to be the more accurate 3D placement due to my previous sentence, but it's just not as wide or big as the ZS5's. IT03's have finer details, but most of what you hear is compression artifacts on absolutely everything except lossless formats.

Fit: Keep in mind I'm a female, so YMMV. IT03 is poor with fit, providing really poor quality tips that are simply unacceptable for $259. I had one slip off the nozzle and get stuck in my ear earlier. I had to get a friend to pull it out with tweezers at work. They don't fit on the nozzle and they aren't great in the ear.

Value on these IT03's is absolutely embarrassing. KZ can give me a better quality cable and tips for $27, including the IEM's. I wouldn't pay more than $79.99 for them and I feel like that's a steep asking when KZ can provide similar IEM's made of metal with an extra DD for $45. If this is what the audiophile world looks like - subpar sound that's only made good by marketing and class status, I'm going to keep buying the cheap chi-fi IEM's that sound just as good.

I bet the big [predatory marketing] companies feel really threatened by KZ.

**Disclaimer*: I am not paid by KZ or iBasso, I have never received any IEM's for free or for review. All were bought with personal money and these are the opinions of myself.

Still finishing my final review on my website, will have it up by Monday/Tuesday.


----------



## MyPants (Jan 31, 2018)

I gotta say y'all, the New Bee and other knockoff foams kinda do the job, but real Complys are the absolute t*ts. I was 100% on team, "I'm not paying $5 a pair for eartips," BUT a set came with one of my recent IEM purchases and they're so good that I picked some up for my ZS6s and my A4s (which both conveniently take T400s). The upgrade is personally completely worth the price premium. SO so much longer rebound for a better, more comfortable seal with deeper insertion.

Now I'm letting them both simmer with some old Zero 7 albums.


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> As far as the amount of treble, they definitely don't have the 10k spike that the ZS5v3 and ZS6 do - those have 2 ultra-high frequency BA drivers blasting into your eardrum like laser beams. But the CM5 has a decent amount of bright sparkly treble that I think is balanced compared to the rest of the frequencies.


That's my impression, too. And although the CM5 is slightly warmer that the ZS6, I don't find them dark.


----------



## nkramer

MyPants said:


> I gotta say y'all, the New Bee and other knockoff foams kinda do the job, but real Complys are the absolute t*ts. I was 100% on team, "I'm not paying $5 a pair for eartips," BUT a set came with one of my recent IEM purchases and they're so good that I picked some up for my ZS6s and my A4s (which both conveniently take T400s). The upgrade is personally completely worth the price premium. SO so much longer rebound for a better, more comfortable seal with deeper insertion.
> 
> Now I'm letting them both simmer with some old Zero 7 albums.



i've been a comply user for years, love them, swear by them. i use them on the couple pair of iems i have, most of the silicone ones make my ears itch if wearing for an extended period of time. You can tell when the foams are just about ready for the bin when the color is no where like original (faded) and they pretty much rebound instantly. (and or tear)

although i'm excited to try the new bee & other ones, now that i know about them.


----------



## MyPants

nkramer said:


> i've been a comply user for years, love them, swear by them. i use them on the couple pair of iems i have, most of the silicone ones make my ears itch if wearing for an extended period of time. You can tell when the foams are just about ready for the bin when the color is no where like original (faded) and they pretty much rebound instantly. (and or tear)
> 
> although i'm excited to try the new bee & other ones, now that i know about them.



Oh definitely give the new bees a try. At $7 for 6 pairs on AMAZON and even cheaper on Ali, I really can't complain. They definitely get the job done in some applications, the performance just scales with the price pretty dramatically.


----------



## riffrafff

nkramer said:


> i've been a comply user for years, love them, swear by them. i use them on the couple pair of iems i have, most of the silicone ones make my ears itch if wearing for an extended period of time. You can tell when the foams are just about ready for the bin when the color is no where like original (faded) and they pretty much rebound instantly. (and or tear)
> 
> although i'm excited to try the new bee & other ones, now that i know about them.



After my first set of Comply foams, I said "never again."  I will not pay that kind of money for ten cents worth of foam.   Not when they arrive looking this (right side of pic).


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 31, 2018)

khighly said:


> I may buy another ZS6 in a few weeks when everyone blows through some current stock so I can get the new ones.
> 
> IMO, IT03's have the better sound signature, but the IT03's don't have the low extension and don't have the bass response to really carry EDM. Sub bass is definitely up 3-5dB on the ZS5's which makes for a good amount of lows while not really overpowering anything. I also find the soundstage surprisingly narrow and lackluster compared to the ZS5's. I also notice everything in the soundstage is backwards and I've noticed this on serveral KZ IEM's. Things that flow to the left in the ZS5's, flow to the right in the IT03's. The IT03's have what seems to be the more accurate 3D placement due to my previous sentence, but it's just not as wide or big as the ZS5's. IT03's have finer details, but most of what you hear is compression artifacts on absolutely everything except lossless formats.
> 
> ...



I have to say,  I think your on to something here, khighly!

============================

"I may buy another ZS6 in a few weeks when everyone blows through
 some current stock so I can get the new ones."

I was going to suggest this to you but I didn't want to be presumptuous. The ZS6 is just too good an IEM to not have in your collection.  I still think maybe one of these days you can find a matching earpiece from a community member in the future. Just a matter of time.

****************************

"IMO, IT03's have the better sound signature, but the IT03's don't have the
 low extension and don't have the bass response to really carry EDM. 
Sub bass is definitely up 3-5dB on the ZS5's which makes for a good amount 
of lows while not really overpowering anything."

Again, color me surprised, but so be it! This serves as a reminder that multiple reviews are necessary to gain a clearer picture. Every other review says the bass is one of the defining characteristics of the IT03 giving me the impression that the IT03 borders on being a basshead IEM. I'm glad you weighed in with an opposing voice if it's not what your hearing, especially if your not hearing that bass when the IT03 is coupled to your Magni 3. 

****************************

"I also find the soundstage surprisingly narrow and lackluster compared
 to the ZS5's. I also notice everything in the soundstage is backwards and
 I've noticed this on serveral KZ IEM's. Things that flow to the left in the ZS5's,
 flow to the right in the IT03's. The IT03's have what seems to be the more
 accurate 3D placement due to my previous sentence, but it's just not as wide 
or big as the ZS5's."

That's the most interesting thing I've heard this year (reversed soundstage/imaging).  I'll have to go through my collection because I've never picked up on this before. You've definitely piqued my interest here.

****************************

"IT03's have finer details, but most of what you hear is compression artifacts 
on absolutely everything except lossless formats."

So it appears that the IT03 is very transparent,  though I don't want to put words in your mouth.

****************************

"Fit: Keep in mind I'm a female, so YMMV. IT03 is poor with fit, providing really poor quality tips that are simply unacceptable for $259. I had one slip off the nozzle and get stuck in my ear earlier. I had to get a friend to pull it out with tweezers at work. They don't fit on the nozzle and they aren't great in the ear."

Ya know.....I have to say that this is where the rubber meets the road and why I am a self-proclaimed fan of Knowledge Zenith. KZ screws up or p****s me off from time to time, but there is no question that they offer huge value for my money. HUGE!  At $260 the IT03 should not be skimping on $1 eartips and $15 cables. Every $12.99 detachable cable available for the KZ lineup is better than the detachable cables included with the IT03. That speaks volumes about how iBasso views their target customer. For crying out loud "good IEMs with crappy cables and crappy eartips" is how many of us would describe Chi-Fi in the sub-$20 realm. I know the whole "pricing tier" thing, but there is no way to justify crappy eartips and cables when they could have easily sourced decent eartips from sellers who  "LIST"  decent cables and eartips for 99 cents and $12.99, respectively,  
AND THE SELLER STILL HAS HIS PROFIT BUILT IN TO THAT PRICE. 
Shameful,  just shameful. 

****************************

"Value on these IT03's is absolutely embarrassing. KZ can give me a better quality cable and tips for $27, including the IEM's. I wouldn't pay more than $79.99 for them and I feel like that's a steep asking when KZ can provide similar IEM's made of metal with an extra DD for $45. If this is what the audiophile world looks like - subpar sound that's only made good by marketing and class status, I'm going to keep buying the cheap chi-fi IEM's that sound just as good.

Here, here.......all in favor say Aye!

AYE!

****************************

I bet the big [predatory marketing] companies feel really threatened by KZ.

*Disclaimer: I am not paid by KZ or iBasso, I have never received any IEM's for free or for review. All were bought with personal money and these are the opinions of myself.

Still finishing my final review on my website, will have it up by Monday/Tuesday.

Good girl (don't mean that in a condescending way)
Good input 
Food for thought when considering what to buy and weighing what one gets.

For less than $100 you can obtain the following and be very, very happy.




 





 

'Nuff said .......drops the mic.....walks away.


----------



## nkramer

riffrafff said:


> After my first set of Comply foams, I said "never again."  I will not pay that kind of money for ten cents worth of foam.   Not when they arrive looking this (right side of pic).



i haven't tried that style yet, or had any arrive misshapen. the only ones i've ever bought were the normal shape in a couple different sizes (T-100, T-200) & colors.


----------



## nkramer

but like i said, i am excited to try the inexpensive new bee ones, when i need to order some more.


----------



## khighly (Jan 31, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I have to say,  I think your on to something here, khighly!
> 
> ============================
> 
> ...



I think you're giving them too much credit on that cable. It has to be no more than $3, and the ear tips can't be more than $1. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent more on the box and awful leather "carrying case" than the cable. It seems like deceiving customers with marketing nonsense like "high purity copper infused with 100% purity nitrogen" can get the people who actually buy these to ignore the physical build quality of the cable itself and endlessly push that it isn't a bad cable.

They sound fine, don't get me wrong, this is more of a complaint about accessories and build quality.

The Soundstage/Imaging reversal in KZ's I've posted about awhile ago as well, maybe 8-10 months. Everything sits BEHIND me in the KZ's, but any other IEM it sits in front of me. There's an EDM song I listen to where it has this loud "slap" sound and it cracks like a whip -- In the ZS5's it goes right to left, in the IT03's it goes left to right.

The IT03 thread should be fun to watch.


----------



## maxxevv

khighly said:


> In the ZS5's it goes right to left, in the IT03's it goes left to right.



There is the possibility that the cable has been wired/ labeled  L/R opposed.  Perhaps you can try and see if you get the correct stereo effect by swapping the left and right connections?


----------



## vladstef (Jan 31, 2018)

khighly said:


> I may buy another ZS6 in a few weeks when everyone blows through some current stock so I can get the new ones.
> 
> IMO, IT03's have the better sound signature, but the IT03's don't have the low extension and don't have the bass response to really carry EDM. Sub bass is definitely up 3-5dB on the ZS5's which makes for a good amount of lows while not really overpowering anything. I also find the soundstage surprisingly narrow and lackluster compared to the ZS5's. I also notice everything in the soundstage is backwards and I've noticed this on serveral KZ IEM's. Things that flow to the left in the ZS5's, flow to the right in the IT03's. The IT03's have what seems to be the more accurate 3D placement due to my previous sentence, but it's just not as wide or big as the ZS5's. IT03's have finer details, but most of what you hear is compression artifacts on absolutely everything except lossless formats.
> 
> ...




It's quite brave saying this about critically acclaimed IEMs and I believe that you are probably mostly right. There is a thing though that you need to figure out, talking about sounds going left - right. I've never had this sort of issue, with every song that I am used to, I can pinpoint and expect specific sounds to come from either left or right and the only thing that varies between IEMs is how far stuff is (also depth, the way sound envelops your head, how precisely defined it is in space - but it's irrelevant for this conversation). Maybe it's polarity issue or something, maybe channel imbalance?

For the longest time I've been questioning everything about pricing in IEM industry because of an example - I had original Sennheiser IE800 for about a year and got really used to everything that it brings to the table. Going from it to ZS5v1 didn't exactly feel like I lost a whole world of sounds like price would suggest. Yes, you lose some but we are talking percentages here. On the other hand, ie800 and ZS5 (which have kinda similar tonality) were never even close to what I prefer and currently I am enjoying TinAudio T2 more than I ever did these other two.

It's a shame that companies got away with charging thousands of dollars for IEMs which have drivers that cost dozens of dollars maximum. Ok, there is R&D and some for profit, but this industry took it further than what Apple does with their products and audiophile community mostly accepts it.


----------



## Podster (Jan 31, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Definitely jealous! Always wanted the ZN1 with the amp just for the novelty of them.
> 
> ......and what have we here?  An old skool KZ that is STILL UNOPENED in the plastic.
> 
> ...




THX for the Stones Doc, I'm a fan and just got the clear vinyl Hot Rocks set to go with my Red vinyl Sticky Fingers Don't have the ANV's but I do have my MRings stashed somewhere, probably the same place I have the 11's or BrassBack 10's as I call them
That is my backup pair of 11's in the unopened shield The ZN1's are with my Die Cast collection, every once in a while I'll bring them out and test them with a new budget DAP but like Slaters pair I could tell they are delicate so i've really babied  them. They really enhance the Mrobo C5, sounds more like my Benjie S5 with the Mini amp


----------



## Slater (Jan 31, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> There is the possibility that the cable has been wired/ labeled  L/R opposed.  Perhaps you can try and see if you get the correct stereo effect by swapping the left and right connections?



That's what I was just going to say. But @khighly said she's "noticed this on serveral KZ IEM's", which would be very odd if numerous cables were 1. wired incorrectly or 2. plugged in wrong.

Like @DocHoliday, I'm definitely going to be looking into this with interest as well.

@khighly, you mentioned an EDM song with whip as an example of this anomaly. Would you mind telling us the artist/title so I can check it on my gear?


----------



## durwood (Jan 31, 2018)

MyPants said:


> I gotta say y'all, the New Bee and other knockoff foams kinda do the job, but real Complys are the absolute t*ts. I was 100% on team, "I'm not paying $5 a pair for eartips," BUT a set came with one of my recent IEM purchases and they're so good that I picked some up for my ZS6s and my A4s (which both conveniently take T400s). The upgrade is personally completely worth the price premium. SO so much longer rebound for a better, more comfortable seal with deeper insertion.



Bummer, way to ruin it for me. Been using complys since I found out about them, silicones just don't jive with me either. I really also wanted to hope the generics would be equivalents. I am sure they will work, I guess a few bucks is not terrible to find out how they compare to the complys I have.



Slater said:


> Try them with the KZ Starline tips (ie ZS5, ZS6 tips). They are an improvement over the ZS3 tips (at least with me).


 Will do.



> Also, if you swap the stock mesh with standard stainless mesh, it makes an improvement to the treble and will decrease the boomy subbass.


I removed the foam to see, after almost mangling my ZS5 mesh trying to get it back on the ZS5 not sure I want to bother. I might just let these live as is.



> As far as the amount of treble, they definitely don't have the 10k spike that the ZS5v3 and ZS6 do - those have 2 ultra-high frequency BA drivers blasting into your eardrum like laser beams. But the CM5 has a decent amount of bright sparkly treble that I think is balanced compared to the rest of the frequencies.


At higher volumes the CM5  do sound more balanced. I like the ZS5v2 at low volume, but the CM5 at low volume doesn't really come alive.



Willber said:


> That's my impression, too. And although the CM5 is slightly warmer that the ZS6, I don't find them dark.



Ok, I hate subjective words so you got me there. Let's put it into comparison with some pics. I was wrong about the ZS3, I think because of the midbass hump it appears to have less sub bass.

Disclaimer: Only did these for comparison, my imm6 cal file is loaded but I have not done any other compensation. I really should fire up a laptop with Arta instead of my Samsung S3.

Graph 1 (White = ZS3 foam removed vs purple = Uiisii CM5)                                                                                                                     Graph 2 (White=UiiSii CM5 vs Purple= ZS5v2)


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> That's what I was just going to say. But @khighly said she's "noticed this on serveral KZ IEM's", which would be very odd if numerous cables were 1. wired incorrectly or 2. plugged in wrong.
> 
> Like @DocHoliday, I'm definitely going to be looking into this with interest as well.
> 
> @khighly, you mentioned an EDM song with whip as an example of this anomaly. Would you mind telling us the artist/title so I can check it on my gear?



I'm working overtime tonight, so I may not be able to post it tonight, but I put a reminder in my phone to post it tomorrow.

I've done balance tests and verified that all of my KZ's are working properly


----------



## khighly

vladstef said:


> It's quite brave saying this about critically acclaimed IEMs and I believe that you are probably mostly right. There is a thing though that you need to figure out, talking about sounds going left - right. I've never had this sort of issue, with every song that I am used to, I can pinpoint and expect specific sounds to come from either left or right and the only thing that varies between IEMs is how far stuff is (also depth, the way sound envelops your head, how precisely defined it is in space - but it's irrelevant for this conversation). Maybe it's polarity issue or something, maybe channel imbalance?
> 
> For the longest time I've been questioning everything about pricing in IEM industry because of an example - I had original Sennheiser IE800 for about a year and got really used to everything that it brings to the table. Going from it to ZS5v1 didn't exactly feel like I lost a whole world of sounds like price would suggest. Yes, you lose some but we are talking percentages here. On the other hand, ie800 and ZS5 (which have kinda similar tonality) were never even close to what I prefer and currently I am enjoying TinAudio T2 more than I ever did these other two.
> 
> It's a shame that companies got away with charging thousands of dollars for IEMs which have drivers that cost dozens of dollars maximum. Ok, there is R&D and some for profit, but this industry took it further than what Apple does with their products and audiophile community mostly accepts it.



I knew it was too good to be true. Sure maybe you'll get better build quality, better isolation, a better warranty, and better quality control, I'm not dismissing those -- but it really seems like there are diminishing returns and I know if I dropped $1100 on a CA IEM I'd likely end up disappointed, especially after reading reviews on the IT03's where they compare them to CA Andromeda's.

The point I'm trying to make here is that you don't need a $200, $300, $1200 IEM to get a pleasant well respected sound. You can have many $10-$40 Chi-Fi IEM's, pick your favorite, and be happy as a clam with them.


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> At higher volumes the CM5  do sound more balanced. I like the ZS5v2 at low volume, but the CM5 at low volume doesn't really come alive.
> 
> Ok, I hate subjective words so you got me there. Let's put it into comparison with some pics. I was wrong about the ZS3, I think because of the midbass hump it appears to have less sub bass.
> 
> ...



Awesome graphs!

Pretty consistent with how I hear them. Nice to see all 3 compared.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> That's what I was just going to say. But @khighly said she's "noticed this on serveral KZ IEM's", which would be very odd if numerous cables were 1. wired incorrectly or 2. plugged in wrong.
> 
> Like @DocHoliday, I'm definitely going to be looking into this with interest as well.
> 
> @khighly, you mentioned an EDM song with whip as an example of this anomaly. Would you mind telling us the artist/title so I can check it on my gear?



Jinsang - Genesis is the song I first noticed this anomaly quite a few months ago.

Au5 - Metronic is the one I was talking about an hour ago.


----------



## Slater (Feb 1, 2018)

So I wanted to post a follow up to the recent ZS5 v2/ZS6 mods where Russian members (@WalterTorino and @HraD2) are making the nozzle artificially smaller in diameter via foam tip mods.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1831#post-14002591
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1833#post-14003150
I did some more ZS6 testing tonight, and came up with some alternative methods for those interested in trying this out.

In a nutshell the mods aim to increase sub-bass and decrease the spikey treble of the ZS6 (and ZS5 v2).

The Russian mods both involve foam tips, and they are both fairly difficult to achieve because it takes an incredible amount of work to stretch 3mm foam tips on the 5mm nozzle (and in the 2nd link, to stretch tips onto the 5mm nozzle AND spare silicone sleeve.

Also, if you look at this photo, you'll notice that once stretched over the extra silicone sleeve, the OD of the foam tip gets stretched MUCH larger than before. This may affect the ear canal fitment, seal, and comfort level:





I wanted to come up with a few alternate mods that ended up with the same goal, but that could be used with any tip (and still retain the ease of fitting any tip on without stretching it out).

I came up with 2 slightly different mods, that ended up doing basically the same thing (bumping sub-bass and reducing the treble spike). Both of the mods were made to 100% stock ZS6, right out of the factory fresh box, using the stock Starline tips. No BA mods, such as plugging BA drivers or stuffing them with foam.

*Mod #1:*

I played around with multiple iterations of teabag mesh and desiccant packet material, and I didn't really like how they veiled the sound. A few even reduced the treble energy so much it wasn't even enjoyable (all of the life got sucked out of the IEM).

What I settled on was just sticking a nylon mesh screen on top of the stock mesh. I have yet to find a source to buy brand new nylon screens, so I save them when I remove them from other IEMs. I don't remember where this particular one came from, but it is basically identical to the red one KZ uses on a ton of IEMs (EDR1, EDR2, ZS3, etc etc). It's very simple, just peel and stick, takes 10 seconds, and the mod is 100% reversible.

Once done, reinstall whatever tips you want and you're ready to go. Because these mods reduce the treble spike, I didn't have to use foam tips to reduce the treble spike. I could finally ditch the foam tips and use silicone tips (my favorite are Starline tips).

Here's what it looks like (click for larger view):

ZS6 nozzle mod (nylon mesh on top of stock mesh)


*Mod #2:*

The inspiration for this idea came from what KZ did on the ZS1 v1, where they inserted a small diameter brass ring in the nozzle to artificially narrow the diameter. This is one of the reasons why the ZS1 v1 is the "basshead king" of the KZ lineup. Check it out:



To duplicate this I used stainless steel DIN125-1A M2 (ie 2mm) washers. They fit the ZS6 nozzle perfectly, and match the dimensions of the ZS1 v1 brass nozzle. The washers were bought from Grainger, and cost $0.40 for a package of (50) washers - yes, you read that right - $0.008 per washer LOL. The Grainger part # is 22UH25. There was no shipping cost because I picked them up from my local Grainger store. You don't need a business account to order stuff from Grainger - just tell them it's a "will call taxable purchase" that you'll be paying cash for when you pick it up.

To install them, you remove the stock mesh with a sewing needle. Then you use tweezers to drop 1 washer into each nozzle. Be prepared to lose a few washers into the nether regions of your house - they are ridiculously small (but at $0.008 each it really doesn't matter). Anyways, there is a recessed lip on the ZS6 nozzle that allows the washer to fit right down *into* the nozzle. You affix the washer in place with a few micro drops of epoxy or LaserBond UV glue (applied with the sewing needle around the EDGE of the nozzle and washer seam, *not UNDER the washer*).

Once it's dry, reinstall whatever tips you want and you're ready to go. Because these mods reduce the treble spike, I didn't have to use foam tips to reduce the treble spike. I could finally ditch the foam tips and use silicone tips (my favorite are Starline tips).

You'll need to be a little careful with this mod, as there is no mesh to prevent earwax and debris from falling into the nozzle. However, the hole in the center is very small, and the edges of the washer will act like a block to catch debris before it gets into the hole in the center. This is exactly like the ZS1 v1 was, and that IEM had no issue with earwax and debris falling into the nozzle hole.

Here's photos of the washers and the mod (click for larger views):

Specs of the stainless washers:


The modded nozzle:


Modded nozzle vs stock nozzle:


As far as sound, both mods really do make a definite difference if you are looking for 1. More sub-bass punch, and 2. Less spikey treble. They both still allow plenty of treble brightness; they just knock down that peaky spike. Note that neither mod eliminates the cymbal splashiness/sibilance on some tracks, but it does dull it down slightly.

*If you are looking for the maximum bump in sub-bass however, go with the 2nd mod, as it does bump it more than the 1st mod, as well as preserving clarity. *

Or you can just pick whichever one is easiest/cheapest or whichever one you have the materials for. They are both reversible in case you don't like the sound changes, so I encourage you to try both methods and see which one you like more.


----------



## Makahl (Feb 1, 2018)

Awesome! I just got a pair of ZS6 yesterday and I easily solved this problem of "cymbal splashiness/sibilance". I just cut out a small strip of 3M micropore and place it over the nozzle before I mounted the tip (it's important to target on the center to tame the BAs).





(btw thanks slater for the high-res pic)

IEMs, in general, are a bit tricky to me. I just created my own SYMBIO BY MANDARINES ear tips now using 3M earplugs foam + leather belt hole puncher and punch the foam away so just placing it inside the eartip to finish. Wow, what a world of difference regarding bass and isolation compared to stock. If you think this is IEM has a weak sub-bass you should mod your tip and give it a try.

You'll get something really similar to this:


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> THX for the Stones Doc, I'm a fan and just got the clear vinyl Hot Rocks set to go with my Red vinyl Sticky Fingers Don't have the ANV's but I do have my MRings stashed somewhere, probably the same place I have the 11's or BrassBack 10's as I call them
> That is my backup pair of 11's in the unopened shield The ZN1's are with my Die Cast collection, every once in a while I'll bring them out and test them with a new budget DAP but like Slaters pair I could tell they are delicate so i've really babied  them. They really enhance the Mrobo C5, sounds more like my Benjie S5 with the Mini amp




Which did you like more the ED10 or ED11?

khighly, herein is the consummate and classic EDM track (featuring the inimitable Jan Johnston).
 If this doesn't sound incredible on the IT03 then the IT03 at $260 is not for me. Check out that bass.


----------



## Slater (Feb 1, 2018)

Makahl said:


> Awesome! I just got a pair of ZS6 yesterday and I easily solved this problem of "cymbal splashiness/sibilance". I just cut out a small strip of 3M micropore and place it over the nozzle before I mounted the tip (it's important to target on the center to tame the BAs).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great idea!

I assume you have to make sure the strip is going the correct direction, so that it passes on top of the BA drivers (and not a random direction)?

Like this photo:


If that is the case, I would think you would have to remove the nozzle mesh to determine the exact orientation of the BA drivers before placing the tape (otherwise, you could line it up wrong). And I have seen where the orientation varies from IEM to IEM, so you would have to check on an individual basis.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I'd probably just put it under a light and line it up.  Too much work removing the mesh lol.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

A new method of narrowing the sound guide from Russian .
You need to cut off the nozzle as in the photo and insert it into the sound guide. And that's all!


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 1, 2018)

Slater said:


> So I wanted to post a follow up to the recent ZS5 v2/ZS6 mods where Russian members (@WalterTorino and @HraD2) are making the nozzle artificially smaller in diameter via foam tip mods.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1831#post-14002591
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1833#post-14003150
> ...




I actually did the first mod way back in October. 



 

Used the ZS3 red nylons.


----------



## djmakemynight

Slater said:


> Awesome graphs!
> 
> Pretty consistent with how I hear them. Nice to see all 3 compared.



Yeah, quite in line with what I am hearing as well. Just love the sub bass resonance from the CM5.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 1, 2018)

Makahl said:


> Awesome! I just got a pair of ZS6 yesterday and I easily solved this problem of "cymbal splashiness/sibilance". I just cut out a small strip of 3M micropore and place it over the nozzle before I mounted the tip (it's important to target on the center to tame the BAs).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Knowledge Zenith should be producing those since Sony is no longer doing it. People like me have scoured the www for over a year trying to obtain them.

Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> I'd probably just put it under a light and line it up.  Too much work removing the mesh lol.



Easier on the ZS5. Near impossible on the ZS6 because the nozzle screen is polished and the light reflects back into your eyes.


----------



## kukkurovaca

Slater said:


> Easier on the ZS5. Near impossible on the ZS6 because the nozzle screen is polished and the light reflects back into your eyes.



What if you black out the screen with a sharpie or something?


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Knowledge Zenith should be producing those since Sony is no longer doing it. People like me have scoured the WWW for over a year trying to obtain them.
> 
> Thanks for the reminder.



I think that's why they made Symbios (they saw a niche). Too bad they are so expensive...


----------



## Slater

kukkurovaca said:


> What if you black out the screen with a sharpie or something?



Yeah, that might work. Give it a try and let us know if that method works.


----------



## durwood

A transparent diffuser of sorts. Easy to try, thanks.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Podster (Feb 1, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I have to say,  I think your on to something here, khighly!
> 
> ============================
> 
> ...



Love that cable Doc As seen in pics I have plenty of those cases with the KZ brand on them, perfect size for larger shelled iem's. I'll update you on the Pewter ZS6 once I've had a chance to burn them for 40-50 hours plus A/B with my Red/Blacks And to finish off on KZ at first I did not think the ED11 was any better than the 10's other than the brass back was a more solid look but after some time and switching around the 11 did have a cleaner signature for me especially with higher end high res DAPS. I've read and do realize everyone did not hear what I now hear but with most portable gear period ones MMV!

Let's jump track for a minute and get into expectation, for my $250 the MD NobleX was a let down compared to my MD Mee PX's at less than half the price (Never went for the IT01's so I can't be in that convo) but IMO Noble really went bare bones on the "X" and once again in this old man's opinion for 250 Bones Noble should have put a better cable in them and tips they know enhance a bottom basement offering But I can say I own a pair of Noble's and the Classic Universal casing





Liking you and the Panda's EDM guys When I say I'm old this was EDM of my youth



I don't want to hear any smirking or laughing from you young bucks/buckette's (Did not want to leave @khighly out)

Now with that said I danced with many a beautiful German women when I got stationed in Germany AF/76 (And after 6 or 7 liter's some that may been a little less beautiful)

Of course back them it was referred to more as Electronica or Synthwave, here's a couple bands that I really liked and usered in a whole new bunch of artist come the 80's!




R.I.P. to the late great Edgar Frose


----------



## HungryPanda

I was in my final year of high school when that was a hit


----------



## MyPants

Ya know the thing with Kraftwerk is you HAVE to listen to them through a contextual filter and understand that they were totally pioneering the genre, wiring their own synths and whatnot. Otherwise they sound kindof simple and repetitive compared to even slightly more modern electronic music. I DO love The Man Machine though...


----------



## Podster

Graduated in '75 myself Panda, this is one of my favorite live albums to this day You folks that love electronic music should que this up


----------



## maxxevv

Makahl said:


> Awesome! I just got a pair of ZS6 yesterday and I easily solved this problem of "cymbal splashiness/sibilance". I just cut out a small strip of 3M micropore and place it over the nozzle before I mounted the tip (it's important to target on the center to tame the BAs).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tried. Using 3M Micropore with 1mm strip all the way till 4mm strips. 

2mm~2.5mm will reduce the sibilance, but only just, doesn't completely solve the issue. Any wider than 3mm and all the bass gets wooly and muddy....   

Similar results with Starlines or Foams, foams being a small shade better but overall it doesn't completely eliminate the sibilance even if one is willing to live with the muddied bass. But point to note that for some people, it may be reduced to a point that's 'livable' and not longer bothersome, though it doesn't completely go away.  

For reference, I was listening to Adele's "Hello" on FLAC, played back on my G6 Quad DAC in "External Device" mode, volume 20.  

But it was less effective on another vocal track I listened to. Sibilance was still pretty easy to pick out on that. 

To clarify, in normal listening, sibilance doesn't bother me at all on the ZS6 but I can pick it out if I choose to. In this modification experiment, I chose to pick out the nuances that's at the core of this mod.


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> Love that cable Doc As seen in pics I have plenty of those cases with the KZ brand on them, perfect size for larger shelled iem's. I'll update you on the Pewter ZS6 once I've had a chance to burn them for 40-50 hours plus A/B with my Red/Blacks And to finish off on KZ at first I did not think the ED11 was any better than the 10's other than the brass back was a more solid look but after some time and switching around the 11 did have a cleaner signature for me especially with higher end high res DAPS. I've read and do realize everyone did not hear what I now hear but with most portable gear period ones MMV!
> 
> Let's jump track for a minute and get into expectation, for my $250 the MD NobleX was a let down compared to my MD Mee PX's at less than half the price (Never went for the IT01's so I can't be in that convo) but IMO Noble really went bare bones on the "X" and once again in this old man's opinion for 250 Bones Noble should have put a better cable in them and tips they know enhance a bottom basement offering But I can say I own a pair of Noble's and the Classic Universal casing
> 
> ...



Now we are talking, have everything they ever released (TD) and then some.


----------



## Podster

maxxevv said:


> Tried. Using 3M Micropore with 1mm strip all the way till 4mm strips.
> 
> 2mm~2.5mm will reduce the sibilance, but only just, doesn't completely solve the issue. Any wider than 3mm and all the bass gets wooly and muddy....
> 
> ...



However much I appreciate this level of testing and detail I could never go to these lengths personally Maxx, if I spent this much time trying to squeeze that final ounce out of my tracks I'd never have time to listen to my music. I saw you comment on normal listening and decided that is the camp I live in! Not to mention I have a high tolerance level for sizzle so none of the KZ line pierce my drums. I can' even keep up with @MyPants on the contextual filter thingy I went through a lot of this same stuff with home audio years ago and just decided to listen to my music and not get to deep anymore, call me lazy but I'm pretty happy with all my music the majority of the time and that is good odds IMO 

So better get my KZ back on


----------



## Slater (Feb 1, 2018)

Podster said:


> Of course back them it was referred to more as Electronica or Synthwave, here's a couple bands that I really liked and usered in a whole new bunch of artist come the 80's!





HungryPanda said:


> I was in my final year of high school when that was a hit





MyPants said:


> Ya know the thing with Kraftwerk is you HAVE to listen to them through a contextual filter and understand that they were totally pioneering the genre, wiring their own synths and whatnot. Otherwise they sound kindof simple and repetitive compared to even slightly more modern electronic music. I DO love The Man Machine though...





mrmoto050 said:


> Now we are talking, have everything they ever released (TD) and then some.



If you guys like Kraftwerk, you should check out the album "A Bass Tribute to Kraftwerk" by the band Basskraft.

Despite having Kraftwerk's entire catalogue, I was blown away when a friend introduced me to Basskraft a few years ago.

It's pretty much a 1:1 reproduction of Kraftwerk tracks, except with deep basshead levels of sub-bass percussion lines added in (I have some cans that don't even go low enough to hear all of it LOL). I mean, they were one of the pioneers of EDM, but honestly their stuff always left me wanting a little 'more' if you know what I mean. Well, Basskraft adds in what was missing, to make the perfect Kraftwerk experience - basically what Kraftwerk would have sounded like had they been a little more modern. It's like plain peanut butter sandwiches are good, but it sure does go better with jam (or honey or bananas). Kraftwerk's remix versions did some of this, but Basskraft just takes it to another level.

On a side note, I was at Moogfest in 2014, and Kraftwerk were the headliners 2 nights in a row (and so many other good acts performed for 3 days straight including acts that rarely play the States [or at all] such as Pet Shop Boys, Giorgio Moroder, CHIC, and many others). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moogfest#2014

Anyways, Kraftwerk was an honor to see in concert, and they are all very cool and personable guys.


----------



## Podster

mrmoto050 said:


> Now we are talking, have everything they ever released (TD) and then some.



It would be extremely hard for me to put my TD (Also my initials but I don't let that cloud my judgment or go to my head) in order of preference, love Poland, of course Logos, Force Maj, Rubycon, Stratos, Ricochet, yada yada yada, guys a broken recordLOL

So here's another builder who's wares really sound great with TD, unfortunately the "Whole Story" ala Paul Harvey is yet to be told but soon I hope! I would have my Icarus III and R1's in this shot but they are in my balanced bag


----------



## Pruikki

Off topic`? but 
I just got my KZ ZSR green, i logged in to share initial impressions.

*Holy Sh!t WOW,* plugged in my axon 7, and i was instanty hearing the difference!
what do i mean, i mean that they respond really well to DAC Amp it has. i hear really clearly the difference, with dac on/Off.
Stock tips provided used: the big ones.

finally i got IEMs that are good pair with Axon 7.
*
SOUND:*

i compare the ZSR to KZ below,
KZ ATE, no difference that i can pick up.
ZS3, little brighter and louder, is good but no big difference.Still worth having it on.
ES3, now i see little difference,brighter, more clear, more "studio hifi" feel. Dac does it good but not Wow effect, but still something.

now...ZSR....Dac on off and i hear Big difference, like WOW kind of a difference, its big enough to go "Wow!"

Ergonomics: Not good. well they fit,but it is every min that you gotta re adjust em.
I ES3 is better in this area. But the sound makes up for it!

- What id do differently? i would maybe do some modding to  make the highs less apparent, to make it darker sounding.

*TL;DR They sound good*,and id make em lil more less sibilant, move BAs more back,not so close to ears. Worth the 15€ Yes.


----------



## razorpakk

Am I the only one who would like an upgraded ATR with removable cable and better build?


----------



## trumpethead

Podster said:


> Love that cable Doc As seen in pics I have plenty of those cases with the KZ brand on them, perfect size for larger shelled iem's. I'll update you on the Pewter ZS6 once I've had a chance to burn them for 40-50 hours plus A/B with my Red/Blacks And to finish off on KZ at first I did not think the ED11 was any better than the 10's other than the brass back was a more solid look but after some time and switching around the 11 did have a cleaner signature for me especially with higher end high res DAPS. I've read and do realize everyone did not hear what I now hear but with most portable gear period ones MMV!
> 
> Let's jump track for a minute and get into expectation, for my $250 the MD NobleX was a let down compared to my MD Mee PX's at less than half the price (Never went for the IT01's so I can't be in that convo) but IMO Noble really went bare bones on the "X" and once again in this old man's opinion for 250 Bones Noble should have put a better cable in them and tips they know enhance a bottom basement offering But I can say I own a pair of Noble's and the Classic Universal casing
> 
> ...




+1 on the Kraftwerk


----------



## Podster

trumpethead said:


> +1 on the Kraftwerk



THX @trumpethead , got to thinking about it and I'd be remiss if I did not mention Mike Oldfield as well He's another genius behind the keyboardsYMMV


----------



## MyPants

Podster said:


> I can' even keep up with @MyPants[/US
> ER] on the contextual filter thingy:rolling_eyes: I went through a lot of this same stuff with home audio years ago and just decided to listen to my music and not get to deep anymore, call me lazy but I'm pretty happy with all my music the majority of the time and that is good odds IMO:beerchug:
> [ATTACH=full]2444888[/ATTACH]




I think I phrased that in a confusing way. A "contextual filter" is not a piece of equipment or software. I'm just talking about keeping the music in context in your mind and not judging it in parity with modern music so-as to fully appreciate it's value. I definitely agree with you that one can easily get so caught up in gear and technical/clinical listening that you forget to ENJOY your tunes, so I tend to do both at different times.

[QUOTE="Slater, post: 14014095, member: 427234"]If you guys like Kraftwerk, you should check out the album "A Bass Tribute to Kraftwerk" by the band Basskraft.

Despite having Kraftwerk's entire catalogue, I was blown away when a friend introduced me to Basskraft a few years ago.

It's pretty much a 1:1 reproduction of Kraftwerk tracks, except with deep basshead levels of sub-bass percussion lines added in (I have some cans that don't even go low enough to hear all of it LOL). I mean, they were one of the pioneers of EDM, but honestly their stuff always left me wanting a little 'more' if you know what I mean. Well, Basskraft adds in what was missing, to make the perfect Kraftwerk experience - basically what Kraftwerk would have sounded like had they been a little more modern. It's like plain peanut butter sandwiches are good, but it sure does go better with jam (or honey or bananas). Kraftwerk's remix versions did some of this, but Basskraft just takes it to another level.

On a side note, I was at Moogfest in 2014, and Kraftwerk were the headliners 2 nights in a row (and so many other good acts performed for 3 days straight including acts that rarely play the States [or at all] such as Pet Shop Boys, Giorgio Moroder, CHIC, and many others). [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moogfest#2014[/URL]

Anyways, Kraftwerk was an honor to see in concert, and they are all very cool and personable guys.[/QUOTE]

I will definitely be checking out Basskraft, thank you for the recommendation. Also, -insert Wayne's World "we're not worthy" scene-


----------



## Podster (Feb 1, 2018)

Indeed @MyPants , one of the main reasons I don't even attempt reviews much less technical is because first off I don't have the tools to do it right so I defer to "Brooko" on that one and secondly at my age if I try to go back and fourth I'd be afraid I'd forget what the original even was Video is even worse, I remember the colorization push/era and for me most are so unnatural to the original black and white which believe it or not I still prefer. Wife was laughing at me watching McHale's Navy this morning and my 16 year old goes dad that picture is horrible Can't wait till they get old and remember what their "Old Skool" was

@razorpakk , always wanted the AT series to have removable cable myself Sir They sure deserved one


----------



## SomeTechNoob

razorpakk said:


> Am I the only one who would like an upgraded ATR with removable cable and better build?



The only KZ I regret buying is the ATR lol

Bad fit, lacks clarity across the whole spectrum, terrible rubbery cable that doesn't stay behind your ear, and a boring sound signature.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 2, 2018)

Podster said:


> Love that cable Doc As seen in pics I have plenty of those cases with the KZ brand on them, perfect size for larger shelled iem's. I'll update you on the Pewter ZS6 once I've had a chance to burn them for 40-50 hours plus A/B with my Red/Blacks And to finish off on KZ at first I did not think the ED11 was any better than the 10's other than the brass back was a more solid look but after some time and switching around the 11 did have a cleaner signature for me especially with higher end high res DAPS. I've read and do realize everyone did not hear what I now hear but with most portable gear period ones MMV!
> 
> Let's jump track for a minute and get into expectation, for my $250 the MD NobleX was a let down compared to my MD Mee PX's at less than half the price (Never went for the IT01's so I can't be in that convo) but IMO Noble really went bare bones on the "X" and once again in this old man's opinion for 250 Bones Noble should have put a better cable in them and tips they know enhance a bottom basement offering But I can say I own a pair of Noble's and the Classic Universal casing
> 
> ...





Well, Pod......there's much to discuss here.



Podster said:


> I'll update you on the Pewter ZS6 once I've had a chance to burn them for 40-50 hours plus A/B with my Red/Blacks



Yeah, once I discovered that KZ revised the ZS6 I opted to postpone my purchase for a few weeks until the inventory of ZS6(i) is depleted. Like you, I have two ZS6(i)'s so I'm set there. I want the Pewter ZS6 to be a ZS6(ii) so I can compare the two versions. 

And I will formally make the request here so KZ will catch the hint. 

Dear Knowledge Zenith,
PLEASE, PAY HOMAGE TO YOUR FANS WHO HAVE AN ENTIRE THREAD DEDICATED TO YOUR PRODUCTS AND PLEASE GIVE US A SPECIAL EDITION ZS6 IN WHITE (with brass or copper screws and brass or copper mesh that sits behind the vents). PLEASE INCLUDE AN UPGRADED CABLE IN THE PACKAGE AND MOST OF ALL PACKAGE IT THE WAY YOU ORIGINALLY PACKAGED THE ED9, ED10 AND ATE. THIS WILL SEND US THE MESSAGE THAT YOU APPRECIATE US AS MUCH AS WE APPRECIATE YOU AND WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO BRING HIGHER QUALITY AUDIO TO THE MASSES. You could even have two colors available for the ZS6-SE (the second of course issued in midnight blue with brass screws and mesh). Truth be told, many of us will buy both colors just to add to our collection, but many will buy them just for being beautiful. Do a limited run, like the ED11 and then let nature run it's course. It's the perfect swan song for a legend of an IEM in it's original guise.




Podster said:


> the 11 did have a cleaner signature for me especially with higher end high res DAPS.



You're one of the very few who actually obtained the ED11. KZ had so many models on the market at the time (EDSE, EDR1, EDR2, ED3 'PERFECTION', ED4, ED9, ED10, HDS1 & ZS1) and more being released (ED3 'Acme', ATE-S, HDS2 & HDS3). As a result the ED11 kind of got lost in the shuffle. I don't think many were produced when you consider how many ED10's were sold.



Podster said:


> for my $250 the MD NobleX was a let down compared to my MD Mee PX's at less than half the price



The various reviews that I've poured over seem to indicate that the Noble'X' is what I would describe as a thoroughly refined version of the ATE sound signature due to it's somewhat inverted "V" shape (slightly rolled highs, punchy mid-bass, slightly rolled sub-bass with an expansive soundstage). I say thoroughly refined because it sounds as if Noble accomplished this sound signature by using two BAs as opposed to a single DD. This also explains why there is such a diversity of opinions on it. 
People that don't care for it prefer more micro-detail and more low end grunt. 
People who love it enjoy the non-fatiguing mid-centric presentation. 
Only you can comment on this because 
 1) I don't own them 
              but 
 2) you do own them and you own the ATE. 

For me it's all conjecture. 




Podster said:


> for 250 Bones Noble should have put a better cable in them



My comments on the IT03 can pretty much be applied here as well when it comes to accessories (cables and eartips).



Podster said:


> When I say I'm old this was EDM of my youth



Kraftwerk's T.E.E. was the first electronic song I can remember hearing and of course it was the basis for one of hip hop's earliest recordings put on wax (Planet Rock). Since you've mentioned the Disco Diva herself I thought I'd send you back in a time machine.





Podster said:


> I danced with many a beautiful German woman when I got stationed in Germany AF/76 (And after 6 or 7 liter's some that may been a little less beautiful)



Yeah, those are what we lovingly refer to as beer goggles. By the way, I know you never hear this enough but "Thank You for your service, Pod"!



Podster said:


> back then it was referred to more as Electronica or Synthwave



Kraftwerk set the stage for New Order, Icehouse & Soft Cell's one hit wonder, Tainted Love. 



Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the ZS6(ii) sound signature and it's cable.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 1, 2018)

razorpakk said:


> Am I the only one who would like an upgraded ATR with removable cable and better build?




To answer your question, you're not the only one, but once I get my ES3 replacements I'll compare the ATR to the ES3 and let you know if the ES3 is precisely what you're asking for (upgraded ATR with removable cable and better build). I'm kind of going from memory at this point since my backup ATR is dead on one side and my ES3 needs replacing as well. Stay tuned and I'll get back to you.

BTW, to anyone else in the community who has both the ATR and the ES3, please chime in.








 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B01MDMCQSH/ref=mw_dp_cr


----------



## bsoplinger (Feb 1, 2018)

Podster said:


> THX @trumpethead , got to thinking about it and I'd be remiss if I did not mention Mike Oldfield as well He's another genius behind the keyboardsYMMV


I have the original pressing of Kraftwerk on my 10-foot-a-LPs stash but will have to say I like Mike Oldfield more. I'm still buying his occasional new releases. Loved _Return to Ommadawn_ from last year, perhaps it was the year before now that we're in 2018. Have everything in between too. Of course I loved pre breakup Tangerine Dream and some of the more recent things. And all the Froese solo stuff


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> I have the original pressing of Kraftwerk on my 10-foot-a-LPs stash but will have to say I like Mike Oldfield more. I'm still buying his occasional new releases. Loved _Return to Ommadawn_ from last year, perhaps it was the year before now that we're in 2018. Have everything in between too. Of course I loved pre breakup Tangerine Dream and some of the more recent things. And all the Froese solo stuff



You betcha @bsoplinger , Ommadawn, Discovery, TB I/II & III, Incantations, never got Tubular Beats from 2013-14? but I have a copy of The 1984 Suite which has "The Killing Fields" on it


----------



## Wiljen

Zsr review is finally up here.

that week with the flu really put a dent in my listening time.


----------



## IamMe90

So guys, I have to say, after putting in some significant listening time using the _foam_ tips, my opinion of the ZS6 has changed tremendously! The foam really tames the hot treble down nicely, the bass shines, and they just sound amazing for their price. I actually prefer them to my Periodic Audio Be's for a lot of tracks, and that's a price differential of 6x. Very happy with my purchase now. Woo!


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> Indeed @MyPants , one of the main reasons I don't even attempt reviews much less technical is because first off I don't have the tools to do it right so I defer to "Brooko" on that one and secondly at my age if I try to go back and fourth I'd be afraid I'd forget what the original even was Video is even worse, I remember the colorization push/era and for me most are so unnatural to the original black and white which believe it or not I still prefer. Wife was laughing at me watching McHale's Navy this morning and my 16 year old goes dad that picture is horrible Can't wait till they get old and remember what their "Old Skool" was
> 
> @razorpakk , always wanted the AT series to have removable cable myself Sir They sure deserved one


+1 on Hales Navy, Sqt Bilko was pretty good also. Oh, the days of innocence.


----------



## fluteloop

@Podster That Bike is Rad. V.cool


----------



## Podster

Yeah @DocHoliday , I'm quite sure you and I could go on and on until I have hand cramps! LOL Fortunately for me my time was recovery time, went in March of '76 and they pulled the last of our boys out of Saigon Dec. '75. A lot of great guys gave their lives for a politically motivated war and we (speaking ground forces) were at a total disadvantage in Charlie's Playground. Appreciate your sentiments though Partied with a lot of guys recovering at Landstuhl 2nd General Army Hospital, some could not dance but they sure could put back a few Bitburger's and Jagers Bringing back some good memories of big Wiener Schnitzel's hanging off both sides of my plate with German fried potatoes and red cabbage (excuse me while I wipe tis drool off my keyboard) 

Think I ended up giving my boys or at least donating my ATE's to my kids video shelf after getting my ATR's (yours are also very sweet, usually don't like ear guides but those white ones look sweet on the ATR's) which I consider the final rendition of a great series. I may be able to find them and A-B with the Nobles but for I can with my ATR's. Try to get around to that sometime in the near future between Science Project, Basketball and Soccer!

Yeah, only thing worse than beer goggles can be the next morning if you know what I mean  So I'm also a fan of New Order, got all of Icehouse and my youngest boy absolutely loves my 12" EP of Tainted Love! You know I loved those ED11's the minute I opened the package and immediately jumped back on ALiEx and ordered my second pair

So let's do hope when my Gearbest Pewter ZS6's get here that they truly are a II's edition, of course I won't cry either way because I just love my black and red ones (maybe not as much as Lord Rex)! But they are one heck of an iem for $40.

Cheers


----------



## fluteloop

Whilst we're on the Subject for suggestions for KZ - I'm thinking the white and gold lick could be Ceramcoated and Gold Titanium hardware. that would be all class... and mill out the the Grille into that Conjoined "kz" logo. Epic Gucci 'ish


----------



## fluteloop

hate to be the fun police but has anyone considered the the Poster information was updated instead of the IEM itself ? not trying to ruin the fun, I just want to explore the possibilities before we all get our Underwear in double knots (without even taking our pants off).


----------



## Podster

Drumkrunk said:


> @Podster That Bike is Rad. V.cool



THX @Drumkrunk  , here's the family stable, everyone else in the house ride 24 cruisers as well as the guest red Diamondback





Really taking me back @mrmoto050  , earliest shows I remember watching were Real McCoy's, Gunsmoke, My Favorite Martian, Bonanza, Twilight Zone, Dragnet, Rawhide, The Beaver, Have Gun, Lassie, Wagon Train but I loved the 60's shows like Hogan's, I-Spy, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> THX @Drumkrunk  , here's the family stable, everyone else in the house ride 24 cruisers as well as the guest red Diamondback
> 
> 
> 
> Really taking me back @mrmoto050  , earliest shows I remember watching were Real McCoy's, Gunsmoke, My Favorite Martian, Bonanza, Twilight Zone, Dragnet, Rawhide, The Beaver, Have Gun, Lassie, Wagon Train but I loved the 60's shows like Hogan's, I-Spy, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea


Yep, Standard TV fare of the day. Nice bikes BTW. I'm a mountain biker, never did BMX.


----------



## HungryPanda

Wiljen said:


> Zsr review is finally up here.
> 
> that week with the flu really put a dent in my listening time.


Dying here too, all I seem to be able to do is listen to movie soundtracks.... Alien: Covenant, Passengers, Logan and some ambient stuff


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 1, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> hate to be the fun police but has anyone considered the the Poster information was updated instead of the IEM itself ? not trying to ruin the fun, I just want to explore the possibilities before we all get our Underwear in double knots (without even taking our pants off).






DocHoliday said:


> ******* A L E R T *******
> 
> Looks like KZ has silently modified the ZS6.
> Pay close attention.
> ...



No harm in considering that possibility, but given KZ's history

 [ATE(i), ATE(ii), ATE(iii), ATE(iv), ATE(v), ZS1(i), ZS1(ii), ZS5(i) & ZS5 (ii)]

and given the disparity in their own posted images (included above) I think I'll stick to my guns on this one. I don't think they would go through the trouble of issuing and posting new images if something wasn't afoot.  Not to mention that someone posted that their new ZS6 claimed more bass and the OP could hear the difference compared to their original ZS6.

At any rate, if KZ has given a ZS6(ii) more bass and replaced one of the ultra-high frequency BAs with a midrange BA then the added bass will likely force some of those abundant highs found in the ZS6(i) into submission. I'll also venture a guess that a ZS6(ii) bass will not be as clean and tight as the ZS6(i). We'll just have to wait and see.

OK, Pod and fellow 80's synth-pop lovers, here is one more absolute classic.
Pull out your favorite warm KZ (really, make sure their warm KZ's) and hit play.



You can really hear "Jellybean" Benitez' handiwork in this mix. Same goes for Jon Robie.

Speaking of John Robie:


----------



## RuiPP

Will a ZS6 v2 be released?
Thanks.


----------



## mrmoto050

Has anyone seen the recent picture for the *KZ ZS5? *It looks different.
*




*


----------



## RuiPP

In your opinion what's the best KZ model to try for the first time?
Thanks again.


----------



## Podster

mrmoto050 said:


> Yep, Standard TV fare of the day. Nice bikes BTW. I'm a mountain biker, never did BMX.



Yep and those were just grazing the surface as we had , Danny Thomas, Petticoat Junction (some of my earliest crushes, the Joe girls), Flipper, F Troop, Addam's Family, Munsters, Gomer, Jeannie, Avengers, Lost In Space, Get Smart, Andy G, Those Hillbillies, Wild Wild West, My Three Sons, Hazel, Dennis the Menace and how about Dobie Gillis, that broken record guy is back  You know is was years after the Big Valley went off the air that I saw a picture of Barbara Stanwyck and I just thought Linda Evans was beautiful, Babs was a stone cold knockout in her teens! Am I fading here, sure seems like I've lost track of time and where I am

Hope this makes up for my errant ramblings!


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> Yep and those were just grazing the surface as we had , Danny Thomas, Petticoat Junction (some of my earliest crushes, the Joe girls), Flipper, F Troop, Addam's Family, Munsters, Gomer, Jeannie, Avengers, Lost In Space, Get Smart, Andy G, Those Hillbillies, Wild Wild West, My Three Sons, Hazel, Dennis the Menace and how about Dobie Gillis, that broken record guy is back  You know is was years after the Big Valley went off the air that I saw a picture of Barbara Stanwyck and I just thought Linda Evans was beautiful, Babs was a stone cold knockout in her teens! Am I fading here, sure seems like I've lost track of time and where I am
> 
> Hope this makes up for my errant ramblings!


HA, that's a great amp, btw take a close look at my profile picture lol!


----------



## bsoplinger

mrmoto050 said:


> Has anyone seen the recent picture for the *KZ ZS5? *It looks different.
> *
> 
> 
> ...


Isn't that a picture of the configuration of the original ZS5 V1? With one of the 2 high frequency BA in the body in the molded cavity instead of both stuck in the nozzle. Although I note that the body mounted BA is described as a mid treble vs high treble in the nozzle? Or have they gone and created a ZS5 V3 since they seem to have, although yet to be seen in person, gone with 2 different frequency range BA in the ZS6?


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 1, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> To answer your question, you're not the only one, but once I get my ES3 replacements I'll compare the ATR to the ES3 and let you know if the ES3 is precisely what you're asking for (upgraded ATR with removable cable and better build). I'm kind of going from memory at this point since my backup ATR is dead on one side and my ES3 needs replacing as well. Stay tuned and I'll get back to you.
> 
> BTW, to anyone else in the community who has both the ATR and the ES3, please chime in.
> 
> ...


i've got some ATR and ES3. i'll measure them when my new setup is completed (still mounting and installing a new computer).
pewter zs6 are in transit, will measure them and compare to the rest of zs6s, to check differences, if any.



Podster said:


> THX @Drumkrunk  , here's the family stable, everyone else in the house ride 24 cruisers as well as the guest red Diamondback
> 
> 
> 
> Really taking me back @mrmoto050  , earliest shows I remember watching were Real McCoy's, Gunsmoke, My Favorite Martian, Bonanza, Twilight Zone, Dragnet, Rawhide, The Beaver, Have Gun, Lassie, Wagon Train but I loved the 60's shows like Hogan's, I-Spy, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea





mrmoto050 said:


> Yep, Standard TV fare of the day. Nice bikes BTW. I'm a mountain biker, never did BMX.


i can't enjoy MTB or BMX in real life (backache), but use to ride virtually while listening music (zs6) in the cell. these are the games we (my nephew, his friend and myself) developed:
http://www.tactilarts.com/landing/
MTB downhill.. velocity madness..


----------



## SomeTechNoob

mrmoto050 said:


> Has anyone seen the recent picture for the *KZ ZS5? *It looks different.
> *
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like ZS5 v1 driver placement to me.  Someone else double check the driver labelings.


----------



## DocHoliday

hakuzen said:


> i've got some ATR and ES3. i'll measure them when my new setup is completed (still mounting and installing a new computer).
> pewter zs6 are in transit, will measure them and compare to the rest of zs6s, to check differences, if any.
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks hakuzen. My going from memory is probably the least reliable way to confirm or negate my suspicion regarding similarities in sound signature. Looking forward to your findings.

In memory of my dying ATR (no speaker phone for this one folks. IEMs are a must).


----------



## durwood (Feb 1, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> hate to be the fun police but has anyone considered the the Poster information was updated instead of the IEM itself ? not trying to ruin the fun, I just want to explore the possibilities before we all get our Underwear in double knots (without even taking our pants off).



Don't know all the history that KZ has releasing changed IEM's only what i have skimmed off these few pages but given what Doc just said, if it was the same I would have expected the grey color to appear in the same link as the red,black, and green where you just pick the color. A whole separate link seems to be be the third sing it is different.

1) Different poster
2) Comparison for a member saying they hear an obvious difference.
3) Separate link/product description

A measurement between two would seal the deal.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 1, 2018)

razorpakk said:


> Am I the only one who would like an upgraded ATR with removable cable and better build?


Why? They are sturdy, well built and $7 CAD. Just buy two. Even the $800 USD Sennheiser IE800 don't have a detachable cable.


----------



## Saoshyant

Otto Motor said:


> Why? They are sturdy, well built and $7 CAD. Just buy two. Even the $800 USD Sennheiser HD800 don't have a detachable cable.



Did you mean IE800?


----------



## Otto Motor

HungryPanda said:


> I was in my final year of high school when that was a hit


"The Model" was a hit twice: 1978 and 1982. I hope you didn't get stuck in your high school for some time .


----------



## Otto Motor

Saoshyant said:


> Did you mean IE800?


Yes!


----------



## Otto Motor

SomeTechNoob said:


> The only KZ I regret buying is the ATR lol
> 
> Bad fit, lacks clarity across the whole spectrum, terrible rubbery cable that doesn't stay behind your ear, and a boring sound signature.


The rubbery cable is KZ standard. And with minor cosmetic surgery, they will fit better .


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 1, 2018)

RuiPP said:


> In your opinion what's the best KZ model to try for the first time?
> Thanks again.


Best?

I'd start with the HDS1 or HDS3 and EDR1 or EDR2...or all of them...they are $5-6 each and very good.
See here: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2016...-place-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-1/

The ATR are also well-tuned earphones at $7 and much better than the ATE. I also like the ZSE.

I find the following fatiguing and quickly tiring: ED9, ZS3, ZST.

The dual driver ES3 are somewhat ok.

If you like window dressing and want to spend real money on looks, go for the multidriver ones such as the KS ZS5 and/or ZS6. But they have their sonic quirks. In this category, you fare much better with other brands imho (for example Sony M1HC, Tinaudio T2, and Brainwavz B100).

Haven't tried the ZSR yet.

In summary, the cheaper 2015 single-driver models mentioned above do nothing wrong and are highly recommended. And they offer superior value.


----------



## Slater

RuiPP said:


> In your opinion what's the best KZ model to try for the first time?
> Thanks again.



"Best" depends on a number of factors. What's "best" for one person can be the "worst" for someone else.

Let's start by answering the following questions:

- Do you have a particular sound preference with headphones?
- What genres of music do you listen to?
- What is your budget?
- Do you have to have a removable cable, or is a fixed cable OK?
- Do you care about isolation (ie music leaking out or external sounds leaking in)?
- Do you care if the IEM is worn down, or do you like behind-the-ear IEMs?
- Do you have small ears? Or odd shaped ears?
- Do you need a microphone or music control button
- Do you plan on sleeping with the IEM?
- Do you want the option to use them as bluetooth earphones?


----------



## Podster (Feb 2, 2018)

That preference is a very big one as I am not treble sensitive and the ED9 and ZST are two of my favorites at their perspective price points!

Slater brings most of the individual items that can guide you to what might be your right pick the first time.

Nothing wrong with Otto's choices at all and I would probably go with the HDS1's for a first KS, not out much and once you report how those sound to you we can guide you in either direction.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Nothing wrong with Otto's choices at all and I would probably go with the HDS1's for a first KS, not out much and once you report how those sound to you we can guide you in either direction.



Good advice - start in the 'middle' of KZs sound profiles and see what you like from there. Although the HDS1 is getting pretty hard to find these days.


----------



## DocHoliday

RuiPP said:


> In your opinion what's the best KZ model to try for the first time?
> Thanks again.



A great place to start. 
Notice how small they are by comparing the size of the eartip to the body of the IEM.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> Good advice - start in the 'middle' of KZs sound profiles and see what you like from there. Although the HDS1 is getting pretty hard to find these days.


Is it even possible to find these? It took a bit of work to find the HDS3 that would ship to the USA, even if they aren't supposed to be as good as the HDS1.


----------



## jaydm99

RuiPP said:


> Will a ZS6 v2 be released?
> Thanks.


Grey ZS6s are definitely v2. Check out the graphics on the product description on Gearbest. The only thing to worry about is if they released v2 in red/black colors too.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 2, 2018)

mrmoto050 said:


> Has anyone seen the recent picture for the *KZ ZS5? *It looks different.
> *
> 
> 
> ...





 

******* ALERT *******

*******A G A I N *******
Could it be that KZ has been listening to us and has heeded our calls to re-release the ZS5 in it's original format?  Hmmmmmmm........

mrmoto050, I think you may be on to something here and we shouldn't dismiss it. I still have the images (exploded views) of the original ZS5(i) and the subsequent ZS5(ii). When KZ changed the layout of the ZS5(i) drivers they issued new images of what we now call the ZS5(ii). It appears that the image has changed once again so mrmoto050 may be correct. We may actually be seeing the images of the ZS5(iii).

Follow along and try to keep up.

This is the original image of the ZS5(i) and note the two separate locations of the BA receivers




This is a better image of the ZS5(i). 


 

Now note in this image the location of both BA receivers in the nozzle of the ZS5(ii).



This is another image of the ZS5(ii).

.

 

Now look at the new images of the ZS5 and make no mistake, these are newly issued images.  Compare the actual image that was initially published to this one and you can see that this is different. 





If KZ has done what we all have been hoping they would do, which is go back to the original design, then there will be much to celebrate. 

First, for those of you that are unaware, although the ZS5(i) does have 2BAs and 2DDs and the driver housings have a similar shape to the ZS6, the ZS5 is in fact an IEM with different tuning. 

The vents on the ZS5 were designed to be between the faceplate and the main body of the IEM. If you look at the very first image you will notice that the blue ZS5 seems to have an unusual gap between the faceplate and the main body of the housing. This gap is actually the ZS5's hidden vent designed right into the driver housing. The ZS6 has the vents directly on the faceplates. 

Note the labeling of the DDs in the image above. Note which DD is responsible for low frequencies and which DD is responsible for bass and lower midrange frequencies. This was not so in the original ZS5(i) [see very last image for confirmation]. However, it is how the ZS6 was designed. In the ZS6 the 6mm DD is responsible for the sub-bass and the larger DD is responsible for the midrange and upper bass. This is why the ZS6 bass section is so tight and clean for such a full-bodied bass. There was a clear difference in the texture and control of the lower frequencies between the ZS5(i) and ZS6. The ZS5(i) bass is soft and broad while the ZS6 bass is tighter with clear delineation between the sub-bass and mid-bass. It looks like KZ is tuning the ZS5(iii) to inherit the ZS6's more focused bass. In addition, because the micro-driver (6mm) will now focus on sub-bass this means the larger driver focusing on midrange will not be forced into submission. I thought the midrange on the ZS5(i) was not as vivid as one would expect considering the midrange had a dedicated driver. In hindsight, it makes sense that the midrange was just overshadowed by the bass of the larger driver. This new configuration should give the vocals more presence.

I will definitely be buying a new ZS5(iii) because it will sound different than the ZS5(i).
The ZS5(iii) will likely contain a crossover resulting in the sound signature having an even more focused presentation. 

KZ is certainly keeping us on our toes, though I wish they would offer the new configuration in two new colors (ZS2 blue resin and ZS1 coffee resin) or better yet aluminum housings that keep the ZS5's hidden side vents. If they do go with aluminum housings for the ZS5(iii)
then they can offer it to us in dark chocolate with brass screws and deep purple with brass screws. Can you imagine both of those colors with a satin sheen. Good GOD in heaven! I'll take both, please.

GIMME, GIMME, GIMME......PLEASE.

This is the configuration of the original ZS5(i)


----------



## jaydm99

@DocHoliday now the only thing KZ needs to do is to indicate the revision number on the damn boxes!

We know you're visiting this thread KZ!!!

Oh. And it might be a good idea to release a ZS6 with the same driver positions as the ZS5 v3 (if it's possible?).


----------



## TLDRonin

@DocHoliday 



Good detective work!


Now if only there was a surefire way to get the new version...


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Is it even possible to find these? It took a bit of work to find the HDS3 that would ship to the USA, even if they aren't supposed to be as good as the HDS1.



I just checked and found a number of HDS3 on both ebay and Aliexpress.

I only found a handful of HDS1 on ebay, and they are stupidly expensive.


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> ******* ALERT *******
> 
> *******A G A I N *******
> Could it be that KZ has been listening to us and has heeded our calls to re-release the ZS5 in it's original format?  Hmmmmmmm........
> ...


----------



## WalterTorino




----------



## vladstef

DocHoliday said:


> ******* ALERT *******
> 
> *******A G A I N *******
> Could it be that KZ has been listening to us and has heeded our calls to re-release the ZS5 in it's original format?  Hmmmmmmm........
> ...



Back in the day when ZS5 came out, I discussed with people how it's a bit weird that small dynamic was used for sub. Turns out that it was just a mistake in promo material. This "new" photo is actually the oldest one. Sorry for killing the fun...


----------



## jaydm99

vladstef said:


> Back in the day when ZS5 came out, I discussed with people how it's a bit weird that small dynamic was used for sub. Turns out that it was just a mistake in promo material. This "new" photo is actually the oldest one. Sorry for killing the fun...


The "High Mid-range BA" and the "Treble BA" on these "new" graphic for ZS5 were only introduced when the ZSR came out. The smaller DD is also the one used for the ZS6's sub bass. So no. It's not a mistake


----------



## themindfreak

khighly said:


> The Soundstage/Imaging reversal in KZ's I've posted about awhile ago as well, maybe 8-10 months. Everything sits BEHIND me in the KZ's, but any other IEM it sits in front of me. There's an EDM song I listen to where it has this loud "slap" sound and it cracks like a whip -- In the ZS5's it goes right to left, in the IT03's it goes left to right.
> 
> The IT03 thread should be fun to watch.



Must be the QC issue in the early ZS5 V1 batch. I had terrible QC issue with ZS5 V1 as well


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 2, 2018)

Jay Magaling said:


> The "High Mid-range BA" and the "Treble BA" on these "new" graphic for ZS5 were only introduced when the ZSR came out. The smaller DD is also the one used for the ZS6's sub bass. So no. It's not a mistake



Before things get out of hand I think I will contact the seller I usually order from. I will ask him if KZ sent him new images to publish for the ZS5. If you typically order from the same seller (for some of you it's George@GearBest) then please ask your seller if KZ has issued new images for the ZS5.  This will put the controversy  to bed once and for all, but do note that all of the images in my original post were sourced from the same seller on three separate occasions.

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> I just checked and found a number of HDS3 on both ebay and Aliexpress.
> 
> I only found a handful of HDS1 on ebay, and they are stupidly expensive.



HDS1:

https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_383499.html

HDS3:

https://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436716.html

Less than $5 for each (shipping not included). Get both if your wise.


----------



## fluteloop

durwood said:


> Don't know all the history that KZ has releasing changed IEM's only what i have skimmed off these few pages but given what Doc just said, if it was the same I would have expected the grey color to appear in the same link as the red,black, and green where you just pick the color. A whole separate link seems to be be the third sing it is different.
> 
> 1) Different poster
> 2) Comparison for a member saying they hear an obvious difference.
> ...




yeah  but if you're referring to Gearbest links they also carry different suppliers so there will be different links.


----------



## fluteloop

DocHoliday said:


> No harm in considering that possibility, but given KZ's history
> 
> [ATE(i), ATE(ii), ATE(iii), ATE(iv), ATE(v), ZS1(i), ZS1(ii), ZS5(i) & ZS5 (ii)]
> 
> ...



I'm not trying to persuade anyone, or cause an Argument, they don't need to swap the Armatures because the armatures they use are Wideband and will produce the required frequencies, they just needed to modify the x-over (if they actually have modified the IEM in any way) and if they have modified it in any way, meaning if they've had to reconfigure the x-over this late after the release then you'd have to fire the Engineer for not designing it properly in the beginning, Unless the EE had no experience with Sound X-Overs or phonics.. it honestly doesn't make sense, they already went to all the trouble, they wouldn't have designed the xover incorrectly.. unless they rolled the upper mids off a bit late causing some issues in the higher frequencies which would have been corrected with a few proto trial units. It would be almost a certainty they made a few and tested them first.  All they would have to do - IF they have changed anything it is Tweak the X-over to Tighten up the Slopes where one driver drops off and the next responds. no need to change drivers, but they can change the poster which is keep it the same and just point to the other BA in the poster and give it a name like "Mid driver" that is essentially just saying "that now has more mid emphasis"  the reason I think they just Changed the poster and not the IEM itself is because The first poster is Ambiguous. what the new poster looks like to me is what the the original poster should have been. if i'm not making sense.. let me know.  Cheers


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 2, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> I'm not trying to persuade anyone, or cause an Argument, they don't need to swap the Armatures because the armatures they use are Wideband and will produce the required frequencies, they just needed to modify the x-over (if they actually have modified the IEM in any way) and if they have modified it in any way, meaning if they've had to reconfigure the x-over this late after the release then you'd have to fire the Engineer for not designing it properly in the beginning, Unless the EE had no experience with Sound X-Overs or phonics.. it honestly doesn't make sense, they already went to all the trouble, they wouldn't have designed the xover incorrectly.. unless they rolled the upper mids off a bit late causing some issues in the higher frequencies which would have been corrected with a few proto trial units. It would be almost a certainty they made a few and tested them first.  All they would have to do - IF they have changed anything it is Tweak the X-over to Tighten up the Slopes where one driver drops off and the next responds. no need to change drivers, but they can change the poster which is keep it the same and just point to the other BA in the poster and give it a name like "Mid driver" that is essentially just saying "that now has more mid emphasis"  the reason I think they just Changed the poster and not the IEM itself is because The first poster is Ambiguous. what the new poster looks like to me is what the the original poster should have been. if i'm not making sense.. let me know.  Cheers


agree 100%, i also guess that the differences, if any, will reside in the crossover. time will tell us..
and yes, the audio engineer, or the testers, or all of them should be fired.. or forced to improve their methodology


----------



## Podster

In defense of the poor Engineers/Testers maybe upper management has told them in no uncertain terms no change until current back stock is sold Just sayin'


----------



## khighly

themindfreak said:


> Must be the QC issue in the early ZS5 V1 batch. I had terrible QC issue with ZS5 V1 as well



Happens with ZST and ZS6 as well. I didn't have the ZS5's when I first brought it up. They pan correctly and each side is wired correctly.


----------



## svil3

DocHoliday said:


> HDS1:
> 
> https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_383499.html
> 
> ...


They crearly are out of stock :/


----------



## fluteloop

Podster said:


> In defense of the poor Engineers/Testers maybe upper management has told them in no uncertain terms no change until current back stock is sold Just sayin'



Solid possibility too. ahhh yes... upper management... it still exists. 



hakuzen said:


> agree 100%, i also guess that the differences, if any, will reside in the crossover. time will tell us..
> and yes, the audio engineer, or the testers, or all of them should be fired.. or forced to improve their methodology



I hope they don't Fire those guy and yeah, time will tell, I was just thinking to myself, there's no reason why they couldn't refine the x-over as time went on and Doing it so close to a new models release is smart as  they can refine it and treat it like an opportunity to test run a few things while they transition to the next design. they would be learning every day too. I did exaggerate with the whole job Canning thing It was joke as I think they've done a great job and I think others would agree, we wouldn't be here discussing it if it didn't stir something within.. it's my favourite sound company, IEM's anyway, i've put my other purchases on hold, i want to see what the response from other companies will be in the wake of the next Line up. Exciting times for the consumer.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> I just checked and found a number of HDS3 on both ebay and Aliexpress.
> 
> I only found a handful of HDS1 on ebay, and they are stupidly expensive.



My word: grab the cheapos first while they last. The EDR1 and EDR2 are still available cheaply, but probably not for long anymore. They also constitute the best value of all KZ earphones. 

The ZS series does not run away right now.


----------



## hakuzen

Podster said:


> In defense of the poor Engineers/Testers maybe upper management has told them in no uncertain terms no change until current back stock is sold Just sayin'





Drumkrunk said:


> Solid possibility too. ahhh yes... upper management... it still exists.
> 
> I hope they don't Fire those guy and yeah, time will tell, I was just thinking to myself, there's no reason why they couldn't refine the x-over as time went on and Doing it so close to a new models release is smart as  they can refine it and treat it like an opportunity to test run a few things while they transition to the next design. they would be learning every day too. I did exaggerate with the whole job Canning thing It was joke as I think they've done a great job and I think others would agree, we wouldn't be here discussing it if it didn't stir something within.. it's my favourite sound company, IEM's anyway, i've put my other purchases on hold, i want to see what the response from other companies will be in the wake of the next Line up. Exciting times for the consumer.


about firing employees.. it pretended to be a (unfortunate) joke, or an statement about kz could do even better.
my experience as a worker in companies also tells me upper management uses to be technical ignorant and uses to decide based on pure marketing uniquely. thanks god there are exceptions somewhere..
can imagine it: engineers: "alpha version is ready to start being tested, it uses a crossover now and there are not buried drivers.." upper management: "no alpha version, let's deploy it now! we are on a wave, let customers test it while you plan another upgrade. graphic designers, prepare the posters right now, emphasizing everything that the customers want to see, although it is false"
i'm also fond of KZ. their quality-price ratio is superb. we can understand that their prices don't allow them to be too finicky with details or QC. no problem, while their iems sound well enough for the budget. i've had 2 qc issues (one zs5v1, one zs3) from 45 kz purchased iems. gearbest refunded 100% of the zs5, and i didn't notify about the broken zs3. i can't complain.


----------



## Slater (Feb 2, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


>



Great idea!

I would recommend being very careful heating the shrink tubing, so nothing gets damaged (like the BA driver diaphragms or the plastic nozzle on the ZS5 v2).


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> Back in the day when ZS5 came out, I discussed with people how it's a bit weird that small dynamic was used for sub. Turns out that it was just a mistake in promo material. This "new" photo is actually the oldest one. Sorry for killing the fun...



So are you saying that the bottom line is that there's no ZS5 v3 after all?


----------



## Wiljen

I think that is still open for debate Slater but we are waiting for replies from vendors on whether KZ sent update image files for the Zs5 recently that would indicate a change.


----------



## HaNs SuPeR (Feb 2, 2018)

KZ ZS3 will be here in a couple days. 

I'm looking for suggestions for Tips. Want to do a little tip rolling.
Are there some rules of thumb regarding tips and sound signature ?
Do certain types or sizes tend to produce a certain signature ?
Also any brand recommendations ? I'm in the States and use Amazon mostly. 

These will be my first IEM.
Excited after following this thread and reading up on KZ and other budget IEMs for quite a while.
The more I read the harder it was to pull the trigger on something.
So many options.
And of course new KZ stuff coming out making me want to wait.

It sounds like I should just get myself banned from here as this seems to be quite addictive.


----------



## vladstef (Feb 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> So are you saying that the bottom line is that there's no ZS5 v3 after all?



Not completely sure whether there is a v3 or not, just saying that I have every reason to doubt the  evidence of its existence. Remains to be confirmed (which won't be easy, v1 and potential v3 have both one BA in the nozzle, I guess if new orders suddenly start having just one BA this whole thing should be investigated further).


----------



## Slater

HaNs SuPeR said:


> KZ ZS3 will be here in a couple days.



Welcome friend, and congrats on your 1st IEM purchase!

I hope your ZS3 arrive in proper working order.

The most recent ZS3 batch seems to have an issue with some having a DOA defective driver issue (it doesn't affect all of them in this batch; just much higher % defects than usual for KZ).

Be sure to test them thoroughly in case 1 side dies (you'll still be within a return period).

More info here: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jan...6-99-kz-ed9-6-99.832367/page-75#post-13961425
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jan...6-99-kz-ed9-6-99.832367/page-83#post-13981998


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Thank You. I will be sure to test thoroughly before 30 day return period is up.
I ordered from ****, Fulfilled by Amazon.
I guess who knows what batch they are selling.
Supposed to be here Sunday


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> So are you saying that the bottom line is that there's no ZS5 v3 after all?



The current Gearbest marketing materials seem to suggest a ZS6 v2.  

And if you look at the current ZS5 materials, which is very interesting in the stated use of different (instead of identical )BA drivers and note the location of the 2 BA drivers.


----------



## fluteloop

hakuzen said:


> about firing employees.. it pretended to be a (unfortunate) joke, or an statement about kz could do even better.
> my experience as a worker in companies also tells me upper management uses to be technical ignorant and uses to decide based on pure marketing uniquely. thanks god there are exceptions somewhere..
> can imagine it: engineers: "alpha version is ready to start being tested, it uses a crossover now and there are not buried drivers.." upper management: "no alpha version, let's deploy it now! we are on a wave, let customers test it while you plan another upgrade. graphic designers, prepare the posters right now, emphasizing everything that the customers want to see, although it is false"
> i'm also fond of KZ. their quality-price ratio is superb. we can understand that their prices don't allow them to be too finicky with details or QC. no problem, while their iems sound well enough for the budget. i've had 2 qc issues (one zs5v1, one zs3) from 45 kz purchased iems. gearbest refunded 100% of the zs5, and i didn't notify about the broken zs3. i can't complain.



Yes exactly this...You're inside my head, you put the point down much better. 

I alluded to the design being incomplete when they were in no rush to cut corners anyway but in that instance of "we're on a wave let's get them out" then yeah that's asking for trouble. I realise most companies in a competitive market are that way inclined, I just don't see the point in bringing a half arsed or incomplete product to market only to have to jig it and then release a better version, the stuff must be so cheap to make that they're still turning a profit and the consumer can't complain because it's still great value. i'm hoping they aren't as sinister as other corporations and they've formulated their own Hype-train-delivery system and will make a habit of this vi vii viii nonsense, it's going to be the thing that turns me off... but my wishful thinking and naivety will always get the better of me and Cash rules everything around me. 

When Upper management is disconnected from the hands-on guys there's always going to be mishaps but it's amazing how crafty they can be with posters and withholding information, people like to want to know why, or how, so they will eventually conjure up their own standards when there's a void of information so they can relax and rest assured there's no loose ends on the information scale. 

I'm all for that but it helps to have knowledge of how the game is played and what crafty methods they can utilise all the while understanding how the technology works. Much can be figured out using only those parameters.


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> Welcome friend, and congrats on your 1st IEM purchase!
> 
> I hope your ZS3 arrive in proper working order.
> 
> ...




expecting another set of zs3 shortly so i'll report back once I Test them.

Can anyone confirm if the current line up is staying put. The New Line-up is additional Models or is everything just selling out and the new line up take over ?

I think I better take a break from this thread.


----------



## fluteloop

I always listen to my headphones on low vol. I just EQ accordingly and give them enough power and if the Isolation is right the sound


Francisk said:


> Both ZS5 and ZST distorts when I drive them over it's limits from my iDevices or my NFB11.32 and Chord Mojo DAC/Amp but of course that's not the usual volume I normally listen to my music. I suspect that the distortion tolerance of both the ZS5 and ZST is caused by the type of BA drivers that KZ used for both IEMs. Generally dynamic drivers have better distortion tolerance than BA drivers..



the distortion test. way to go lol


----------



## RuiPP

Slater said:


> "Best" depends on a number of factors. What's "best" for one person can be the "worst" for someone else.
> 
> Let's start by answering the following questions:
> 
> ...


Thanks for your help.
I like a nice sub(bass). I listen to all genres of music, but mainly EDM. Isolation and a music control button are important. Use them as bluetooth earphones would be cool, but that's not very important.


----------



## jaydm99

I asked george about the ZS3 and he said that they asked KZ about strict QC with it and they now have new stocks that shouldn't be defective anymore.


----------



## RuiPP

DocHoliday said:


> A great place to start.
> Notice how small they are by comparing the size of the eartip to the body of the IEM.


Thanks. Which model is this?
Now it's Spring Festival and several stores are closed. Where can I get them?


----------



## razorpakk

Might be the fact they're virtually free or the insertion angle which works better than any other iem, but I keep coming back to the ATR, no matter what else I'm using.


----------



## williamclarkonet

All this talk about how good the bass ison the kz zsr is makes me want to get a pair! i want to see if they will de-throne my current favorite kz zs3


----------



## jeromeaparis

williamclarkonet said:


> All this talk about how good the bass ison the kz zsr is makes me want to get a pair! i want to see if they will de-throne my current favorite kz zs3



Got a ZSR, after two days of break in, I found adapted tips to my ears (triple flange) cause the muzle is very big, even with the smallest included tips..
Compared with my ZS3, it's another beast.
The ZS3 has nice dynamic strong bass, it has a warm fun sound, but few details on medium, and very few trebles, even after removing the foams and change the cable for a silver plated.
The ZSR is like a super ZST: it realy has medium & trebles with a lot of details, you can realy discover a lot of things alive in the records, even in a low resolution musical podcast at 128kbps... The bass are sharper than ZST and ZS3, so they take less space, but their volume stays the same as it goes down and down till infra ! They can push hard, but only if it is so in the record. 
There is less trebles than with the ZST but more details, on mediums too. Voices can be sometimes a bit recessed (I think this is solved with a fourth driver on the ZS6)


----------



## ivo001

I've retired my Meizu EP-51 and switched to KZ ZS3 + Spinfit CP100-L + Bluetooth cable for gym sessions. They have a very firm fit, which is nice. The ZST tended to slip out some times, and the Ep-51 is just a strage IEM/earbud hybrid.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

mbwilson111 said:


> First I will just get used to the ZSR.  Trying to compare is not fun.


So what's your final verdict  for ZSR and ZS6 as far as bass is concerned?


----------



## Wiljen

If any of you will be at Carolina Canfest that is a couple weekends away,  I will have Zs5v1, Zst, Zs6, and Zsr  available for audition.   In addition, George has generously sent me a Zs5, Zs6, and a Zsr to be given away at the meet. We will also have a Superlux 668 and HD660 as door prizes too.  Come join us in Concord, NC on the 17th if you can.    There will be some truly amazing gear there.


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> I've retired my Meizu EP-51 and switched to KZ ZS3 + Spinfit CP100-L + Bluetooth cable for gym sessions. They have a very firm fit, which is nice. The ZST tended to slip out some times, and the Ep-51 is just a strage IEM/earbud hybrid.



If you ever retire the ZS3, try the Meizu EP52. It's a significant improvement over the EP51, and I don't even use my ZST or ZS3 for sports anymore because the EP52 blows them all away (in sound, fit, ergonomics, etc). It is a sub-bass cannon though (like Beats level haha); but so is the ZS3. It can be toned down by swapping out the stock nozzle mesh for generic metal ones.


----------



## HaNs SuPeR (Feb 7, 2018)

ZS3s showed up today from Amazon.
Work Great. Sound Good.
Gonna put them on the burn-in rack for a while.
They do sound decent out of the box.


----------



## Slater

HaNs SuPeR said:


> ZS3s showed up today from Amazon (**** store).
> Work Great. Sound Good.
> Gonna put them on the burn-in rack for a while.
> They do sound decent out of the box.



Glad to hear yours arrived working properly.

If you want to improve the sound of the ZS3 even more, you can try these easy mods:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1161#post-13476376
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1171#post-13484497


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Thank You.
Foam removed  
Sounds better.

Are there any tips that will cut down on the bass without affecting mids and highs ?


----------



## jeromeaparis

You can try to use smaller silicone tips and or insert them less than normal
The silver plated cable at 5$ improves slightly too.
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html


----------



## Slater (Feb 4, 2018)

HaNs SuPeR said:


> Thank You.
> Foam removed
> Sounds better.
> 
> Are there any tips that will cut down on the bass without affecting mids and highs ?



Tips can affect different IEMs differently (ie they can be a unique case by case basis). But in general, foam tips will reduce bass. You can also switch to one size down in silicone tips (ie if you normally wear M, switch to S).

On the ZS3 the red nozzle screen filter adds a lot of bass as well. So you can reduce the bass by swapping the red nozzle screens with stainless screens. It literally takes 10 seconds, and anyone can do it with nothing more than a sharp pointy object - sewing needle, safety pin, thumb tack, hat pin, etc.

Stainless mesh screens cost a few pennies each, and have the adhesive pre-applied. So it's literally as simple as peeing them from the sheet and sticking them onto the IEM nozzle.

The details about the correct size to use for the ZS3, as well as a purchase link is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1171#post-13484497

So bottom line, to reduce the bass on the ZS3, swap the nozzle filters, switch to foams, or both.


----------



## Willber

The AAW Nebula One were discussed recently. They are currently on sale here:

https://www.null-audio.com/products/advanced-acousticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor


----------



## sagor1

I bought Kz zst + bluetooth module from gearbest.
When i connect it with my brother HTC 10 (Oreo)...it shows it has been using SBC instead of Aptx.
So is that mean my bluetooth module is 4.1 (but gearbest,box,manual & microphone show 4.2)?
And when i connect it with my Lg g6 & turn on wifi my kz will disconnect automatically specially when i use the internet.
is there anyway that i can fix these issue?


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

"bottom line, to reduce the bass on the ZS3, swap the nozzle filters, switch to foams, or both."

Thank You


----------



## CoiL

jeromeaparis said:


> You can try to use smaller silicone tips and or insert them less than normal
> The silver plated cable at 5$ improves slightly too.
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html


That particular cable is bad one (jack with white rings). It has high impedance and impedance imbalance.


----------



## RuiPP

CoiL said:


> That particular cable is bad one (jack with white rings). It has high impedance and impedance imbalance.


Ok, and what's the best cable to ZS3 and ZSR?


----------



## CoiL (Feb 5, 2018)

Willber said:


> The AAW Nebula One were discussed recently. They are currently on sale here:
> https://www.null-audio.com/products/advanced-acousticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor


Dammit! It`s on sale with 49$ SGD price tag! Verrry tempted to try but reviews don`t please me enough... rather keeping money for IT01.


----------



## CoiL

RuiPP said:


> Ok, and what's the best cable to ZS3 and ZSR?


Contact or search user Hukuzen posts in this thread - he has list of all better cheapo cables for those.


----------



## Wiljen

RuiPP said:


> Ok, and what's the best cable to ZS3 and ZSR?




The KZ made upgrade cable is a good choice and about as cheap as you are likely to find.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0775CYY1H/


----------



## Mellowship

Wiljen said:


> The KZ made upgrade cable is a good choice and about as cheap as you are likely to find.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0775CYY1H/


And it doesn't get green


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> And it doesn't get green



Least not to the naked eye but I concur that is a sweet cable especially if you perform the ear wire surgery It's also a little longer than most (or my pair is) and I like it


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> That particular cable is bad one (jack with white rings). It has high impedance and impedance imbalance.



With high impedance, couldn't it still have value to reduce the treble on ZS5 and ZS6 for those that don't want to use an impedance adapter?


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 5, 2018)

Slater said:


> With high impedance, couldn't it still have value to reduce the treble on ZS5 and ZS6 for those that don't want to use an impedance adapter?


no.
higher impedance in front of zs6/zs5v2 does reduce those treble peaks, but to achieve about -4dB, you need 75ohms (adapter). these cables are lower than 1ohm.
higher impedance in front of zs5v1 does make the treble peaks harsher instead, but not so much if we are talking of  impedance <1ohm.
lower impedance cables are specially recommended for zs5v1, mainly because of zs5v1's extreme low impedance and associated power hunger (but also to keep their treble).

link providing examples of all this, together with the list of some cheapo cables for kzs:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1787#post-13965188


----------



## gwompki

nadezhda 6004 said:


> So what's your final verdict  for ZSR and ZS6 as far as bass is concerned?



I have had the ZSR for about 5 days now.  I'm using it with the medium silicone tips.  Surprisingly I don't like the complys on this one as much as I do on the ZST and ZS5 v1.  I will say that it does not have the same level of bass impact or sub bass that the ZST has or even the ZS5.  However, it has an incredible sound stage to my ears.  Like really really good.  These are great for rock, jazz, etc, but probably not as good for hip hop / EDM.  I think the ZS5 v1 is a better all rounder, but I'm really digging the ZSR.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Feb 5, 2018)

Sorry for the wrong translation, in my country "impedance" means resistance of a speaker under alternative voltage and various frequencies.

Inductance is caused by a cable rolled on itself with a small diameter, it is used in speaker filters to reduce the trebles
If you place a ferrite at the center, it will give a greater inductance (self inductance) but reduces slightly the sharpness of the sound.
Impedance reduces or cuts the trebles. Capacitors cut or reduces the bass

I did check the resistance of both cables (units in ohms). The silver plated has a clearly lower resistance, and it's well balanced R/L on both cables.
KZ ZSR stock cable is 0.6 ohms
KZ silver transparent   0.4ohms

To soften a bit the trebles off my Superlux HD681 (a great headphone) I make a kind off inductance around a circular ferrite with the cable near the mini jack plug.


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> no.
> higher impedance in front of zs6 does reduce those treble peaks, but to achieve about -4dB, you need 75ohms (adapter). these cables are lower than 1ohm.
> higher impedance in front of zs5 does make the treble peaks harsher instead, but not so much if we are talking of  impedance <1ohm.
> lower impedance cables are specially recommended for zs5, mainly because of zs5's extreme low impedance and associated power hunger (but also to keep their treble).
> ...



Gotcha. Luckily I don't have the white tipped cable, nor do the treble peaks bother me as much as some owners


----------



## riffrafff

jeromeaparis said:


> I did check the impedance of my KZ silver plated cable. My impedancemeter cannot detect any mesurable mH. that could affect audible sound
> Same for the stock cable of the ZSR. This is normal for a 1,20m cable !
> Impedance is caused by a long cable rolled on itself with a small diameter (self inductance) it is used in speaker filters to reduce the trebles
> If you place a ferrite at the center, it will give a greater impedance but reduce a bit the sharpness of the sound.
> ...




I measured about 0.3 Ohms more per wire on my silver-plated/white-plug models (4-wire, laboratory primary standard ohmmeter).  I'm about the last person to tell you that an additional 0.3 Ohms is "high impedance,"  nor will I ever be able to hear it with these ears, LOL.


----------



## Slater

jeromeaparis said:


> Impedance reduces or cuts the trebles. Capacitors cut or reduces the bass



This is why I can't wait for someone to tinker with this resistor (on both the ZS5 v2 and ZS6) so we can figure out what effect it has at different values:


----------



## mrmoto050

maxxevv said:


> The current Gearbest marketing materials seem to suggest a ZS6 v2.
> 
> And if you look at the current ZS5 materials, which is very interesting in the stated use of different (instead of identical )BA drivers and note the location of the 2 BA drivers.


I tend to agree, I just received a new order for the ZS6 Grey's and they are definitely a different sound profile, right out of the box. More balanced and refined sound. Awesome Bass , mids, and highs don't seem as sharp (although I didn't have a problem with my first pair. But these do sound different.(IMHO)


----------



## TheVortex

mrmoto050 said:


> I tend to agree, I just received a new order for the ZS6 Grey's and they are definitely a different sound profile, right out of the box. More balanced and refined sound. Awesome Bass , mids, and highs don't seem as sharp (although I didn't have a problem with my first pair. But these do sound different.(IMHO)



Sounds interesting, I have treble cannon ZS6 which are so bright I could put on a battleship. I will wait for more feedback with the grey ZS6's and then maybe order some.


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 5, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> I did check the impedance of my KZ silver plated cable. My impedancemeter cannot detect any mesurable mH. that could affect audible sound
> Same for the stock cable of the ZSR. This is normal for a 1,20m cable !
> Impedance is caused by a long cable rolled on itself with a small diameter (self inductance) it is used in speaker filters to reduce the trebles
> If you place a ferrite at the center, it will give a greater impedance but reduce a bit the sharpness of the sound.
> ...


forgive my ignorance, my logic is this:
i measure DC resistance of cables using decent accuracy digital multimeter (UNI-T UT61E now) or YR1030 internal resistance meter: resistance (opposite to conductivity) to the pass of direct current.
it depends of the material(s) of the wire (plus section and length), plugs and solders.
but the current which travels through our phones' cables is alternating current. sinusoids with different frequencies.
impedance refers to the resistance to the pass of these sinusoids, and this can be different for each frequency. dc resistance is a number, while impedance is represented by two curves (impedance and phase for every frequency).
but our phones' cables use to have the same resistance for every audible frequency, except in the cases you mention (thin coiled cable, ferrites..).
so dc resistance of these cables is a good reference of their conductivity and their normal impedance.


----------



## Wiljen

mrmoto050 said:


> I tend to agree, I just received a new order for the ZS6 Grey's and they are definitely a different sound profile, right out of the box. More balanced and refined sound. Awesome Bass , mids, and highs don't seem as sharp (although I didn't have a problem with my first pair. But these do sound different.(IMHO)



Take the tips off and take a flashlight and see if you can see both BAs in the nozzle or only a single BA.  They should appear as a small ring in the nozzle.  Pretty easy way to determine if they've moved a BA back into the body.


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> Dammit! It`s on sale with 49$ SGD price tag! Verrry tempted to try but reviews don`t please me enough... rather keeping money for IT01.


Well, you can look at it this way… that $50 gets you halfway to buying the iBasso IT01. And if you feel yourself weakening, there's a whole thread here dedicated to those, just read it to keep yourself strong 

PS: I own a pair and really like them. Warning though, took about 200 hours of burn in to get the mids to move forward from their out of the box recessed sound. They sound nice when new, even better once you get those hours in.


----------



## Podster

mrmoto050 said:


> I tend to agree, I just received a new order for the ZS6 Grey's and they are definitely a different sound profile, right out of the box. More balanced and refined sound. Awesome Bass , mids, and highs don't seem as sharp (although I didn't have a problem with my first pair. But these do sound different.(IMHO)



I've got them same question as Wiljen, did they move a BA or did they change to one being more Mid-Centric?


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

jeromeaparis said:


> You can try to use smaller silicone tips and or insert them less than normal
> The silver plated cable at 5$ improves slightly too.
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html


Thank You


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Least not to the naked eye but I concur that is a sweet cable especially if you perform the ear wire surgery It's also a little longer than most (or my pair is) and I like it



I know what you mean!


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> I know what you mean!



Nice Mellow, lookd good on the ZS3. Any change in sound with the SP cable? I'm so lazy I could just take mine off my ZS6 and put it on my 3 Guess I wanted to see what t you thought before trying!


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Nice Mellow, lookd good on the ZS3. Any change in sound with the SP cable? I'm so lazy I could just take mine off my ZS6 and put it on my 3 Guess I wanted to see what t you thought before trying!


Hey Pods, thanks. I think this cable looks good in every IEM. As for the sound, I believe it is better than the stock cable (but could be the "optical illusion")... It's not nearly as rubbery and sticky, goes around the ear well, very comfy and has a great length. 
What really did a great difference was the steel mesh instead of the red nylon one. Bass is tamed, and the ZS3 just went up on my preference list. The soundstage is unbelievable for such a cheapo IEM... 
And the overall comfort is just another reason I've been sporting these much more frequently than the ZS5 mkI (also with the grey wonder cable)!


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> I've got them same question as Wiljen, did they move a BA or did they change to one being more Mid-Centric?





Wiljen said:


> Take the tips off and take a flashlight and see if you can see both BAs in the nozzle or only a single BA.  They should appear as a small ring in the nozzle.  Pretty easy way to determine if they've moved a BA back into the body.





Podster said:


> I've got them same question as Wiljen, did they move a BA or did they change to one being more Mid-Centric?


At work will post later if I have time.


----------



## skajohyros

TheVortex said:


> Sounds interesting, I have treble cannon ZS6 which are so bright I could put on a battleship. I will wait for more feedback with the grey ZS6's and then maybe order some.


Even with 1 BA glued shut and foam tips they are still too sibilant for me.
Close to perfect for me would be zs6 bass and mids, more balanced highs and the phenomenal soundstage of the zs5.


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> Hey Pods, thanks. I think this cable looks good in every IEM. As for the sound, I believe it is better than the stock cable (but could be the "optical illusion")... It's not nearly as rubbery and sticky, goes around the ear well, very comfy and has a great length.
> What really did a great difference was the steel mesh instead of the red nylon one. Bass is tamed, and the ZS3 just went up on my preference list. The soundstage is unbelievable for such a cheapo IEM...
> And the overall comfort is just another reason I've been sporting these much more frequently than the ZS5 mkI (also with the grey wonder cable)!



Yeah, I like how supple this cable is and the wire cut out it lays nicely over my ears. I'm really going to be mad if these tri-braid cables oxidize and turn greem like those first after market ones (The dang Silver TFZ cables did the same thing one my S1S)! 

If I would have known these white cables would turn I would have bought more of these.

Gotcha @mrmoto050 , will check back later


----------



## Willber (Feb 5, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Well, you can look at it this way… that $50 gets you halfway to buying the iBasso IT01.


Actually they're $36 USD ($49 SGD) so about a third of the way...


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Hey Pods, thanks. I think this cable looks good in every IEM. As for the sound, I believe it is better than the stock cable (but could be the "optical illusion")... It's not nearly as rubbery and sticky, goes around the ear well, very comfy and has a great length.
> What really did a great difference was the steel mesh instead of the red nylon one. Bass is tamed, and the ZS3 just went up on my preference list. The soundstage is unbelievable for such a cheapo IEM...
> And the overall comfort is just another reason I've been sporting these much more frequently than the ZS5 mkI (also with the grey wonder cable)!



Yup, swapping the red filter with a stainless one is as important on the ZS3 as removing the foam.

The people doing the foam mod but leaving the crappy red mesh are short changing themselves. Just doing one without the other is like eating a peanut butter (only) sandwich or a jam (only) sandwich.

I'd rather have a peanut butter AND jam sandwich!


----------



## Slater

skajohyros said:


> Close to perfect for me would be zs6 bass and mids, more balanced highs and the phenomenal soundstage of the zs5.



That's very very close to describing the ZSR...


----------



## CoiL

bsoplinger said:


> Well, you can look at it this way… that $50 gets you halfway to buying the iBasso IT01. And if you feel yourself weakening, there's a whole thread here dedicated to those, just read it to keep yourself strong
> 
> PS: I own a pair and really like them. Warning though, took about 200 hours of burn in to get the mids to move forward from their out of the box recessed sound. They sound nice when new, even better once you get those hours in.



Thanks for recommendation. I actually like rather laid-back/distant (but not recessed) mids like ZS5v1. I don`t like very foward (inside Your headstage) mids (like LZ A2S for example) and bass/midbass "bloom", softness and leaking into mids is not what I want (that`s what I read out of reviews). 
IT01 seems to be more what I`m looking for


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

And when the stock has cleared of the ZS6(i) then I'll be ordering those pewter ZS6(ii) and this $27 cable. Should be a great combination.



 



Currently listening to the ES3's and that bass is addictive. Check it with this track. It's just BOOMMMMMmmmmmm..... boommm.. BOOMMMMmmmmm



Or better yet....
Un....freakin....believable!



If you look you can see the Ferry Building all the way down Market Street (way back then).


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll compare the ZSR with various cables and maybe pick up one or two others.



 


By the way, Podster, my tri-braids turned green.


----------



## nofacemonster

Slater said:


> This is an all too common issue with the KZ 2-pin models, and is usually caused by accidentally plugging in the cable backwards. The plug will technically "fit" when plugged in backwards, but the only thing holding it in is the friction of the pins (allowing it to separate & fall apart at any time). Plugging one side in backwards will also cause that side to be out of phase.
> 
> When both plugs are oriented properly and seated fully, it takes an incredible amount of force to unplug them. There is a tight mechanical fitment due to the plug's shape - curved on one end and flat on the other - and it's designed to fit like a key in a lock.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for this clarification. I accidentally bumped in to your post but I've been searching for an answer like this all night yesterday.


----------



## Infected Mushroom

hydroid said:


> ...I'm still getting a more fun listening experience with the ZST's (with foam mod on BA nozzle *and on the shell's nozzle as well*)...



Is that the hole right above the dynamic driver? What effect does it have on the sound? And also is it easy to remove if I don't like it?


----------



## barocka

Wiljen said:


> The KZ made upgrade cable is a good choice and about as cheap as you are likely to find.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0775CYY1H/



I bought dark gray. But treble sounds shone, the sound is no longer bodily. I like sound of white/silver.


----------



## hydroid

Infected Mushroom said:


> Is that the hole right above the dynamic driver? What effect does it have on the sound? And also is it easy to remove if I don't like it?



It has been done and shared by @Slater few pages back I guess (thanks to him).. I've done both the as shown in the photos.. foams on the BA driver's nozzle and the shell's nozzle as well just behind the cover mesh.. Yes, it's reversible if you don't like the sound quality after the mod. My ZST sounded great after this. Highs are tamed, no nasty sibilance and details/sparkles are maintained after the PIC #1 mod. It's trial and error though depending on the size of the foam you will use to cover the BA nozzle. 1mm by 1mm pinch size foam was perfect for my taste. Bigger than that size sounds muffled/veiled. Then, bass quantity increase but not overwhelming. I can hear some rumble of the subbass (not as deep as my Ibasso IT01 though) and still has the crisp midbass after the PIC #2 mod.


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Feb 6, 2018)

skajohyros said: ↑
Close to perfect for me would be zs6 bass and mids, more balanced highs and the phenomenal soundstage of the zs5.


Slater said:


> That's very very close to describing the ZSR...


That sounds VERY  tempting. Could anybody compare ZS5, 6 and ZSR in details?
BTW, I received Ostry KC06A yesterday. They are twice as much as ZS6 but I wouldn't say they sound better. Will play with different tips, though, as I am expecting different sizes of spinfit and Comply tips. May be that will help Ostry to sound better. I've read so many positive reviews on Ostry and it's a frustration now to hear no difference.


----------



## Infected Mushroom

hydroid said:


> It has been done and shared by @Slater few pages back I guess (thanks to him).. I've done both the as shown in the photos.. foams on the BA driver's nozzle and the shell's nozzle as well just behind the cover mesh.. Yes, it's reversible if you don't like the sound quality after the mod. My ZST sounded great after this. Highs are tamed, no nasty sibilance and details/sparkles are maintained after the PIC #1 mod. It's trial and error though depending on the size of the foam you will use to cover the BA nozzle. 1mm by 1mm pinch size foam was perfect for my taste. Bigger than that size sounds muffled/veiled. Then, bass quantity increase but not overwhelming. I can hear some rumble of the subbass (not as deep as my Ibasso IT01 though) and still has the crisp midbass after the PIC #2 mod.



Thank you for the pics and explanations. I've already put foam in the BA as per Slater's great post, but I haven't seen the other suggestion before. I'll try it. Thanks again!


----------



## hydroid

Infected Mushroom said:


> Thank you for the pics and explanations. I've already put foam in the BA as per Slater's great post, but I haven't seen the other suggestion before. I'll try it. Thanks again!



enjoy modding


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I'll compare the ZSR with various cables and maybe pick up one or two others.
> 
> 
> By the way, Podster, my tri-braids turned green.



Dam, I hate to hear that but I thought I'd read in a few other post that they turned By the way I really like the ZSR in black, reminds me of the ATR black I have that yellow cable but I hear it will turn almost black when it tarns


----------



## HiFiChris

Less than an hour ago, I had some thoughts - what if the people at KZ applied the ZS6's harsh and overdone upper treble spike on purpose? It's only strident on a source with close to 0 Ohm output impedance, but due to the in-ear's impedance characteristic, it gets reduced as the output impedance climbs. Most casual listeners don't (intentionally) use high-end gear (DAPs, Amps, smartphones) with very low output impedance but smartphones or laptops with a typically rather high output resistance. So they probably did that on purpose, since adding in-line resistors (that would reduce the nasty spike) wouldn't have been a problem.


----------



## Limjialok

hi, I do follow this thread but didn't talk. 
I was intro to kz by ATE but I got annoyed by the memory wire and kept it inside my storeroom and lost it.
later on, I went to buy a ZS3 and pretty enjoyed the sound and everything, a few days ago, I received my ZSE and it sounds way better than my zs3 and I kept using it since.cos zs3 seems to be quite bass heavy even after slenter mod(removing red screen+foam) and I looking for a new kz along my ZSE. 
recently I saw ZSR at $19.90 and I got curious abt the sound. ZS5(18.90),ZS6(26.90) and ZSR919.90) looks like a good choice for my next kz, any suggestion?
I listen to mainly voice sounds instead of those rock musics. oh ya, is there a way to make my Bluetooth kit for zs3 work with zsr? if I happen to buy it


----------



## B9Scrambler

HiFiChris said:


> Less than an hour ago, I had some thoughts - what if the people at KZ applied the ZS6's harsh and overdone upper treble spike on purpose? It's only strident on a source with close to 0 Ohm output impedance, but due to the in-ear's impedance characteristic, it gets reduced as the output impedance climbs. Most casual listeners don't (intentionally) use high-end gear (DAPs, Amps, smartphones) with very low output impedance but smartphones or laptops with a typically rather high output resistance. So they probably did that on purpose, since adding in-line resistors (that would reduce the nasty spike) wouldn't have been a problem.



That would mean KZ puts thought into their products. There's no way that could be a thing. I thought the general consensus was they just shoved generic drivers into stolen housings with not a care in the world and called it a day? 

(I'm in a facetious mood today btw )


----------



## HiFiChris

B9Scrambler said:


> That would mean KZ puts thought into their products. There's no way that could be a thing. I thought the general consensus was they just shoved generic drivers into stolen housings with not a care in the world and called it a day?
> 
> (I'm in a facetious mood today btw )


----------



## maxxevv

Limjialok said:


> oh ya, is there a way to make my Bluetooth kit for zs3 work with zsr? if I happen to buy it



The BT kit is interchangeable. It will plug right into the ZSR.  The only issue being whether you'll be comfortable with the strightend cable relief of the ZS3 on the ZSR, which is designed to fit a bend cable end.


----------



## Podster (Feb 6, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> That would mean KZ puts thought into their products. There's no way that could be a thing. I thought the general consensus was they just shoved generic drivers into stolen housings with not a care in the world and called it a day?
> 
> (I'm in a facetious mood today btw )



What Chris said or at least displayed (I feel like I'm playing Concentration) 

Welcome aboard @infected


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

Podster said:


> Dam, I hate to hear that but I thought I'd read in a few other post that they turned By the way I really like the ZSR in black, reminds me of the ATR black I have that yellow cable but I hear it will turn almost black when it tarns




Yeah, I think the black ZSR is the most elegant of the bunch. I knew everyone would get the green, but I'm waiting for KZ to release the white ones. If the ZSR sounds better than my ES3 then I'll be getting all four colors. 

Thanks for the heads up on that yellow cable. I think I'll pick up this.one instead. 



 

Listening to my ES3 and that bass just slams with good mids. Check it...


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, I think the black ZSR is the most elegant of the bunch. I knew everyone would get the green, but I'm waiting for KZ to release the white ones. If the ZSR sounds better than my ES3 then I'll be getting all four colors.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on that yellow cable. I think I'll pick up this.one instead.
> 
> ...




That is a bad boy cable, use it on my Mee PX's and luv it





Pretty sure it's the same cable just different connectors


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

Podster said:


> That is a bad boy cable, use it on my Mee PX's and luv it
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure it's the same cable just different connectors




No greenish hue. How long have you had it? 

Another one I'm interested in is this one.


----------



## Podster (Feb 6, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> No greenish hue. How long have you had it?
> 
> Another one I'm interested in is this one.



No problems and it's been used over 6 months now and still looks day one new. I'm pretty sure the same builder is doing your yellow/gold one. By chance are these both coming from he who shall not be mentioned

I'm cautious of that wrap Doc, it's just like the tri-braid material, I think the silver you posted like the ones on my PX are a much better wrap


----------



## bsoplinger

hydroid said:


> It has been done and shared by @Slater few pages back I guess (thanks to him).. I've done both the as shown in the photos.. foams on the BA driver's nozzle and the shell's nozzle as well just behind the cover mesh…


I must have misread @Slater 's post as I saw those as an either or option. You say you like the sound best after applying both mods, correct?


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> No problems and it's been used over 6 months now and still looks day one new. I'm pretty sure the same builder is doing your yellow/gold one. By chance are these both coming from he who shall not be mentioned




Indeed they are. 

2+ years of care free. .....uhhhhh nevermind. 

6 months and still looks new? I think I'll get several. Every silver coated copper I have is green unless I haven't used it. I think once you start using it the cable movement allows air to permeate the pores and oxidation begins.  Most of my cables are green where the cable has been bending and twisting. 

One more track to enjoy as we meander about the thread.


----------



## bsoplinger

Well…

I feel obligated to toss some from my favorite artist. Always amazed at the women vocalists he gets to appear. Always different, always enjoyable.



Perhaps his signature song, although this is an updated version.


The whole album, one of my favorites. Amazing how many different styles are in this hour long fight with the record label opus. If you aren't happy with what you're hearing just jump 2 or 3 minutes. It'll be different.


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Feb 6, 2018)

Could anybody (having the three of them) compare ZS5, 6 and ZSR in details? My most interest is in the bass.


----------



## DocHoliday

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Could anybody (having the three of them) compare ZS5, 6 and ZSR in details? My most interest is in the bass.




I have the ZS6 and ZS5(i), but no ZSR yet.

It may be difficult to nail down your request because there is a ZS5(i), ZS5(ii) and perhaps even a ZS5(iii) on the way and all three will sound different. 

I can tell you that the ZS6  bass is much cleaner than the ZS5 (i) bass and the mids are more forward. I can also tell you that the ZSR has the same 10mm DD that the ES3 has which goes very deep but has a slower decay than the ZS6 bass. The ES3  bass  can definitely qualify as basshead if you EQ in more bass so I expect the same from the ZSR.

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## hydroid

bsoplinger said:


> I must have misread @Slater 's post as I saw those as an either or option. You say you like the sound best after applying both mods, correct?



Yeah I also thought of either initially as doing both (BA nozzle and shell's nozzle as well) might be an overkill but it turned out better sounding for my taste. I loved how the stock zst sounds but the modded ones are even better. Foaming the BA tamed the highs and foam on the shell's nozzle increase the bass quantity without making the mids sounds muffled. But it boils downs to personal preference though. You can do either or both based on what you love to hear. It just turns out that I prefer doing both.


----------



## AxelCloris

After we received a few reports, we've gone through and moderated a number of posts in the thread. There are some brands that are banned on Head-Fi due to their past practices. ****/**** and sibling brands have come up a number of times recently, and we've edited or removed references to them and their brands. We appreciate future posts refraining from linking to or mentioning these products. We prefer not to moderate when possible, so thanks everyone for helping us keep the discussion flowing smoothly.


----------



## stryed

DocHoliday said:


> I have the ZS6 and ZS5(i), but no ZSR yet.
> 
> It may be difficult to nail down your request because there is a ZS5(i), ZS5(ii) and perhaps even a ZS5(iii) on the way and all three will sound different.
> 
> ...



Where does the Zs5 ii fit in? I heard soundstage was better than Zs6.


----------



## B9Scrambler

AxelCloris said:


> After we received a few reports, we've gone through and moderated a number of posts in the thread. There are some brands that are banned on Head-Fi due to their past practices. ****/**** and sibling brands have come up a number of times recently, and we've edited or removed references to them and their brands. We appreciate future posts refraining from linking to or mentioning these products. We prefer not to moderate when possible, so thanks everyone for helping us keep the discussion flowing smoothly.



Thanks for the link. Wasn't aware **** was a no go and part of the Febreasy group.


----------



## DocHoliday

AxelCloris said:


> After we received a few reports, we've gone through and moderated a number of posts in the thread. There are some brands that are banned on Head-Fi due to their past practices. ****/**** and sibling brands have come up a number of times recently, and we've edited or removed references to them and their brands. We appreciate future posts refraining from linking to or mentioning these products. We prefer not to moderate when possible, so thanks everyone for helping us keep the discussion flowing smoothly.




Thank you for the clarification.

My sincere apologies.

Lesson learned.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Yup, swapping the red filter with a stainless one is as important on the ZS3 as removing the foam.
> 
> The people doing the foam mod but leaving the crappy red mesh are short changing themselves. Just doing one without the other is like eating a peanut butter (only) sandwich or a jam (only) sandwich.
> 
> I'd rather have a peanut butter AND jam sandwich!


I find peanut butter and jam too sibilant. I prefer to mod mine to peanut butter and sharp cheddar...


----------



## Saoshyant

@DocHoliday Quite a bit off topic, but been awhile since I've thought about Sneaker Pimps.  I listen to the current project of one of the old band members that goes by IAMX nowadays.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

stryed said:


> Where does the Zs5 ii fit in? I heard soundstage was better than Zs6.




I'll leave that to someone who owns the ZS5(ii) and the ZS6(i). I don't know how the soundstage was effected by relocating one of the ZS5's BAs.

I can tell you that in my ZS6(i) the soundstage is quite wide but psycho-acoustics, I think, alters soundstage perception because the vocals are more forward. It's not necessarily a mid-centric IEM because the lows and highs have a lot of presence.  In my ZS6(i), the vocalist is clearly standing a few feet in front of the entire ensemble almost as if the vocalist is looking at you and reaching for your hand as he/she croons or unleashes their fury.

These two songs are a good example. Pay particular attention to the vocalists position in your minds eye.





In my ZS5(i) the vocalist is sometimes standing in the midst of the band and sometimes just a few feet behind the band.  My own opinion is that the soundstage is actually the same but psycho-acoustics plays on how you hear and interpret that soundstage based on where your attention is directed. 

Just one man's opinion. These are well worth the money I paid....and then some.





Even still, I'll be getting a ZS6(ii) as well. Maybe more than one if they offer a new color.


----------



## Willber

HungryPanda said:


>



Thanks for the link - good stuff.
I'll trade you this:


----------



## DocHoliday

Saoshyant said:


> @DocHoliday Quite a bit off topic, but been awhile since I've thought about Sneaker Pimps.  I listen to the current project of one of the old band members that goes by IAMX nowadays.




Good to know I'll check them out.

Seeing that Nellee Hooper had a hand in that project, perhaps you may be familiar with this track. I believe he had a hand with this one also. Again, the ES3 really kicks the low end into gear.


----------



## stryed

ZS6 is still surprisingly pricey. 35usd for the Grey


DocHoliday said:


> I'll leave that to someone who owns the ZS5(ii) and the ZS6(i). I don't know how the soundstage was effected by relocating one of the ZS5's BAs.
> 
> I can tell you that in my ZS6(i) the soundstage is quite wide but psycho-acoustics, I think, alters soundstage perception because the vocals are more forward. It's not necessarily a mid-centric IEM because the lows and highs have a lot of presence.  In my ZS6(i), the vocalist is clearly standing a few feet in front of the entire ensemble almost as if the vocalist is looking at you and reaching for your hand as he/she croons or unleashes their fury.
> 
> ...




Neat! New stuff to listen to  I'm all for mids even if it costs me a bit of psychoacoustically modified soundstage. 

Having lost a pair of KZ5s and using my backup (both v2), I'm hesitating on going for the KZ6. Apparently the grey version is tuned differently? Waiting for a price drop and some comprehensive comparisons with these batches.


----------



## canzz (Feb 6, 2018)

After reading many reviews in here I went ahead and purchased both ATE S and ZS6.

I am impressed with both but the overstated treble is really annoying. I read few reviews mentioning the over-stated treble (sibilance?) decreases over time but I am not so hopeful of that, to be honest.

Currently ATE has an annoying sibilance on some tracks and ZS6 treble is *unbearable* in most tracks with vocals (even at the medium volume on mac). I heard the treble complaint many times but this does not sound like it could be improved with time or different cable to the point it will be comfortable to listen. Is there really a huge difference in treble between these two or there is something wrong with the unit I got?

Is there a comparison of sound signatures between KZ earphones here somewhere? I wonder which model sounds like ATE and also have replaceable cable. Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## canzz (Feb 6, 2018)

ivo001 said:


> I've retired my Meizu EP-51 and switched to KZ ZS3 + Spinfit CP100-L + Bluetooth cable for gym sessions. They have a very firm fit, which is nice. The ZST tended to slip out sometimes, and the Ep-51 is just a strage IEM/earbud hybrid.



Do you mind sharing why you choose to go with the ZS3 instead of the ZS6 (or ZS4,ZS5) ?

I recently purchased ATE-S and ZS6, to try, and hoping to make the ZS6 my new exercise earphone with the Bluetooth cable. ATE sounds good, ZS6 has incredible potential but unfortunately, the over-stated treble is hurting my ears. I am considering to try different models that are compatible with the Bluetooth cable. Cheers!


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

canzz said:


> After reading many reviews in here I went ahead and purchased both ATE S and ZS6.
> 
> I am impressed with both but the overstated treble is really annoying. I read few reviews mentioning the over-stated treble (sibilance?) decreases over time but I am not so hopeful of that to be honest.
> 
> Currently ATE has a disturbing sibilance on some tracks and ZS6 treble is *unbearable* in most tracks with vocals (even at medium volume on mac). I heard the treble complaint many times but this does not sound like it could be improved with time or different cable to the point it will be comfortable to listen. Is there really a huge difference in treble between these two or there is something wrong with the unit I got?




Sounds like you have a preference for a warmer sound signature.  If I am correct then you should be looking at the original ATE or ATR. In the meantime pick up a set of foam eartips for your ZS6. The ATE-S isn't particularly bright so I think you should give them some time and come back to them after a while. I remember when I first started out I loved warmer sound signatures but my tastes have adjusted the deeper I delved into this hobby, so don't despair , just seek out what you enjoy and sample your other inventory once in a while and you might just be surprised at what you find.

ATR



 

ATE-S has red strain reliefs near the cable entry. If yours have gold colored grips then you have the ATE and not the ATE-S. The ATE-S has a slightly brighter sound signature than the ATE.


----------



## Podster

AxelCloris said:


> After we received a few reports, we've gone through and moderated a number of posts in the thread. There are some brands that are banned on Head-Fi due to their past practices. ****/**** and sibling brands have come up a number of times recently, and we've edited or removed references to them and their brands. We appreciate future posts refraining from linking to or mentioning these products. We prefer not to moderate when possible, so thanks everyone for helping us keep the discussion flowing smoothly.



THX Axel, I never post his links anymore but am guilty of referring to the one not to be referred too! I have given myself those 30 lashes with a wet noodle

@DocHoliday you liking those blue whirlwind tips? So ready for my Gray Bass Enhanced ones from GB to get here


----------



## Podster

stryed said:


> ZS6 is still surprisingly pricey. 35usd for the Grey
> 
> IMHO worth every penny then some, remembering this thread starting out back in 2014 and within a couple pages everyone saying KZ shoots way over their price range not unlike NAD has with home gear from it's inception then before you know it everyone's dreaming/wanting of KZ making a hybrid and what do you know they came and concurred again in just a few short years with many surprises in between


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

Podster said:


> THX Axel, I never post his links anymore but am guilty of referring to the one not to be referred too! I have given myself those 30 lashes with a wet noodle
> 
> @DocHoliday you liking those blue whirlwind tips? So ready for my Gray Bass Enhanced ones from GB to get here




I love them because they improve soundstage. The key is I only put them on IEMs that have clear mids and highs and the lows have lots of presence, otherwise the bass gets diffused and then the whole presentation lacks warmth which is key to sounding natural.


----------



## canzz

DocHoliday said:


> Sounds like you have preference for a warmer sound signature.  If I am correct then you should be looking at the original ATE or ATR. In the meantime pick up a set of foam eartips for your ZS6. The ATE-S isn't particularly bright so I think you should give them some time and come back to them after a while. I remember when I first started out I loved warmer sound signatures but my tastes have adjusted the deeper I delved into this hobby, so don't despair , just seek out what you enjoy and sample your other inventory once in a while and you might just be surprised at what you find.
> 
> ATR
> 
> ATE-S has the red near the cable entry. If yours have gold colored grips then you have the ATE and not the ATE-S. ATE-S is slightly brighter than the ATE.



Thank you for the suggestions  I generally listen EDM, mostly Trance and ATE sounds good for me and if the sibilance decreases a little, I would like them even more however, ZS6 is plain unbearable 

I feel like my unit is defected because I honestly don't think anyone would appreciate the sound coming from my ZS6 as of now! Medium volume on mac (spotify 320) and *most* tracks with Vocals are *hurting* my ears with the hissing noise! 

I noticed that the cable is not working properly on my iPhone. There is no issue with use with my computer but when I connect the ZS6 to my iphone, audio decreases and goes back up again every second, if I press and hold the control button, it continues, and the control doesnt work on my iPhone. I wonder if this cable problem has to do with the treble problem I am having. It works fine with my mac though. 

It seems like you also enjoy some EDM (seen the A&B track on one of your photos) I wonder your thoughts on other KZ earphones ZS2-3-6 signatures. It seems like I need to order a new one :/


----------



## B9Scrambler

ZSR in the house. 1st impressions, all of which are just my opinion and subject to change as I spend more time with them;

- Like the other KZ hybrids she's got some sizzle in the treble; more than the ZST but less than the ZS6
- Bass is more restrained than I was expecting; decent extension that's not quite as good as the ZS6; more textured and dynamic than the ZST, and about on par with the ZS6
- Mids are physically more forward but not really any more prominent than they are on the ZS6 or ZST; has a bit of added warmth/weight which makes them really quite nice
- What is this space? These sound even larger than the ZS6 though not quite as accurate with imaging, or with quite as good of layering or separation; ZST is completely outclassed here
- ZS6 is still better with picking up micro-details, esp. in the mids
- This housing is butt ugly imo (got it in black) and really thick, like, fully wireless iem style bulk
- I can see the two vents on the bottom being blocked by some ears depending on how they sit; doing so seems to lead to less overall bass quantity but I need to test that more
- Personally I like the ZS3's housing a lot more

Overall? So far so good. As long as you're okay with a bit more treble than what the ZST offers, this feels like a decent step up from that model. Also feels like a good alternative to the ZS6 due to the lessened treble energy, though it's not so much less that the treble sensitive out there will be okay. Still too agro for you methinks. If you want something less treble-heavy, ZS3 or ZST are probably still the way to go.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> THX Axel, I never post his links anymore but am guilty of referring to the one not to be referred too! I have given myself those 30 lashes with a wet noodle
> 
> @DocHoliday you liking those blue whirlwind tips? So ready for my Gray Bass Enhanced ones from GB to get here




Also, I won't use them on the BossHiFi B3 or Urbanfun Hybrid,  but I'm looking forward to using them on the ZSR. So far the consensus is that the ZSR have a huge soundstage. Huge soundstage coupled with slammin' bass and even wider soundstage due to these eartips means I should get a mostly out-of-head experience which is what I loved about my HDS3. If I can get a refined HDS3 experience then I'm all in.


----------



## DocHoliday

canzz said:


> Thank you for the suggestions  I generally listen EDM, mostly Trance and ATE sounds good for me and if the sibilance decreases a little, I would like them even more however, ZS6 is plain unbearable
> 
> I feel like my unit is defected because I honestly don't think anyone would appreciate the sound coming from my ZS6 as of now! Medium volume on mac (spotify 320) and *most* tracks with Vocals are *hurting* my ears with the hissing noise!
> 
> ...




Back to work for me, but I'll answer this later when I get back.


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> ZSR in the house. 1st impressions, all of which are just my opinion and subject to change as I spend more time with them;
> 
> - Like the other KZ hybrids she's got some sizzle in the treble; more than the ZST but less than the ZS6
> - Bass is more restrained than I was expecting; decent extension that's not quite as good as the ZS6; more textured and dynamic than the ZST, and about on par with the ZS6
> ...




B9, your input and Wiljen's input help paint a more accurate picture. 

Much appreciated.


----------



## Limjialok

Hi, does any managed to use right angled kz iem(zsr,zst,es3) to use with straight connector bluetooth kit? 
I removed the memory wire from my straight bluetooth meant for my zs3 and i wanna upgrade to zsr but keeping bluetooth kit as it a bit amnoying to remove the memory wire from the angled bluetooth kit again. I know it can fit, but Is it comfortable?


----------



## Limjialok (Feb 6, 2018)

And i know ed12 is a failed kz product. I tried that and it feels weird, or its my sound perferences?

I currently have a zs3 and zse.
How would u guys rate es3,zs3, zse, zs5, zs6 and zsr in terms of best to worst, not taking the price into consideration
I am not a bass head, i am more of a vocal person? Esp those vocal music with min background music. Something like untitled by G-Dragon, empty by winner, white night by taeyang, thinking out loud and photograph by ed sherran, Loser and If you by big bang.


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Feb 6, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I have the ZS6 and ZS5(i), but no ZSR yet.
> 
> It may be difficult to nail down your request because there is a ZS5(i), ZS5(ii) and perhaps even a ZS5(iii) on the way and all three will sound different.


Thanks for answering.
I don't think a lot of people here have ZS 5v1. So let's talk about V2.
Are you going to purchase ZSR?

*To All*
I am still waiting that somebody will compare ZSR with ZS6 or at least review ZSR here. It's just a request. I would not like to buy something which is similar or worse in sound quality than ZS6. Hope I do not sound rude.


----------



## mbwilson111

nadezhda 6004 said:


> So what's your final verdict  for ZSR and ZS6 as far as bass is concerned?





nadezhda 6004 said:


> I am still waiting that somebody will compare ZSR with ZS6 or at least review ZSR here. It's just a request. I would not like to buy something which is similar or worse in sound quality than ZS6. Hope I do not sound rude.



Have not been able to enjoy much music lately.  We have been down with the flu.  The last thing I feel like doing is comparing IEMs...it is not something I enjoy doing anyway.  I prefer to just get into my music and relax.  The ZSRs arrived around the same time as some buds I was excited about...several pairs in fact.  I also recently added some really nice headphones that I want to spend time with.  Please do not base any decisions on my "verdict "...I did not know that a "final verdict" was expected.    I feel overwhelmed.

BTW , I know I have seen quite a few impressions in here of the ZSR.


----------



## riffrafff

mbwilson111 said:


> Have not been able to enjoy much music lately.  We have been down with the flu.  The last thing I feel like doing is comparing IEMs...it is not something I enjoy doing anyway.  I prefer to just get into my music and relax.  The ZSRs arrived around the same time as some buds I was excited about...several pairs in fact.  I also recently added some really nice headphones that I want to spend time with.  Please do not base any decisions on my "verdict "...I did not know that a "final verdict" was expected.    I feel overwhelmed.
> 
> BTW , I know I have seen quite a few impressions in here of the ZSR.



Yeah, I'm fairly certain that clogged Eustachian tubes due to the flu might just skew one's hearing a tad.  LOL.


----------



## Makahl

Mellowship said:


> I know what you mean!



Wow, I was searching for this stainless mesh. Would you mind to share a link to buy it? Thank you!


----------



## nadezhda 6004

B9Scrambler said:


> - Bass is more restrained than I was expecting; decent extension that's not quite as good as the ZS6;


Do you mean that ZS6 is bassier than ZSR? What about the punch? Which has more punch?
I've just ordered ZSR and wanted to be ready what to expect.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Makahl said:


> Wow, I was searching for this stainless mesh. Would you mind to share a link to buy it? Thank you!


What's the purpose of this stainless steel mesh?


----------



## Makahl (Feb 6, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> What's the purpose of this stainless steel mesh?



Traditional mesh like the red on ZS3 uses cotton-ish fabric but it tames high frequency which is a thing isn't that necessary on ZS3 (imo). So stainless mesh won't tame high frequencies too much. But in my case, it's just because I lost the original ones. lol.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> That would mean KZ puts thought into their products. There's no way that could be a thing. I thought the general consensus was they just shoved generic drivers into stolen housings with not a care in the world and called it a day?
> 
> (I'm in a facetious mood today btw )



Don't forget "fake drivers" that don't really do anything LOL


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 6, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Thanks for answering.
> I don't think a lot of people here have ZS 5v1. So let's talk about V2.
> Are you going to purchase ZSR?
> 
> ...



Thus far, two head-fi KZ thread participants chimed in. They are B9 and Wiljen.

B9's first impressions:


B9Scrambler said:


> ZSR in the house. 1st impressions, all of which are just my opinion and subject to change as I spend more time with them;
> 
> - Like the other KZ hybrids she's got some sizzle in the treble; more than the ZST but less than the ZS6
> - Bass is more restrained than I was expecting; decent extension that's not quite as good as the ZS6; more textured and dynamic than the ZST, and about on par with the ZS6
> ...



Wiljen's review:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/reviews

Apparently,  the ZSR is much brighter than the ATE.  I think your best bet, if you'd l ike a KZ is to stick with the ATE, ATR or ED7, none of which have detachable cables and all of which are $10 or less on AliExpress. 

THE ZS3 has a pronounced lower end and is brighter than the ATE. 

In fact almost every IEM that Knowledge Zenith makes is brighter than the ATE. Even the ED12 which has rolled off treble is brighter because it has a shouty and unrefined midrange. 

Perhaps we should approach this differently. What earphones have you enjoyed most in the past?


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Feb 6, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Perhaps we should approach this differently. What earphones have you enjoyed most in the past?



I am a kinda basshead. Thus, I am looking for IEMs with good subbass and bass. Recently I have  purchased Ostry KC06A. They say they are bassy but I am not satisfied with them. Not enough bass for me in UrbanFun either.


----------



## TLDRonin

So....


I took off the memory wire off my kz mmcx cable using a small knife carefully cutting between the gap of the metal wire and the cable. (I spent like 20 minutes in total which was absurd)


I finished one side perfectly, but hiccuped twice on the other side.


On one part I cut the clear part and the metal wire inside is exposed, and the other I cut part of the plastic cover off completely, and I think I actually cut a little of the silver wire.

Would this affect the sound in anyway? I didn’t use them before taking the memory wire off since I couldn’t get a decent deal with the annoying memory wire, and listening it to now it doesnt really sound broken


Should I just tape up those two spots on the wire?


----------



## Slater (Feb 6, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> I am a kinda basshead. Thus, I am looking for IEMs with good subbass and bass. Recently I have  purchased Ostry KC06A. They say they are bassy but I am not satisfied with them. Not enough bass for me in UrbanFun either.



Besides the ultra-rare ZS1 v1, consider this for your basshead needs:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tia...35-SE846-HIFI-Stereo-Earbuds/32834128070.html

To quote @B9Scrambler:

"this is one of the few iems in my collection that might unseat the original brass-ringed KZ ZS1 as my preferred guilty pleasure bass cannon"​
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-342#post-13909286


----------



## canzz (Feb 6, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Thus far, two head-fi KZ thread participants chimed in. They are B9 and Wiljen.
> 
> B9's first impressions:
> 
> ...



Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply.

Yes I read B9's blog posts, its really informative and detailed. Hopefully it will continue with Part-5 

Today I was free and dedicated most of my time into determining what I want. Turns out, I dont know what I want.

On my father's payroll, I had the chance to listen to many high-end (not soo high) earphones like *shure 215,535, etymotics, ath's, beyer dynamics* etc. Not anymore..

The last one I had was *Yamaha EPH-100* that I loved dearly. I thought what I wanted is something like my old Yamaha EPH-100. *ZS6 confused me*. I was sitting still thinking I cant reach to the price range where an earphone could impress me.

I know I need an earphone that sounds something like Yamaha EPH-100 where I can pump the volume up a little more to have a motivational boost during my runs but I cannot leave ZS6 just for this purpose. I still hope I can make it work one way or another! Because of the ZS6 now I want both :/

Currently, my thoughts on both are

- ATE-S good all around with a little EQ tweak it is good for any kind of music. A little less treble would allow me to pump the volume up a little more though.
- ZS6 jaw-dropping in some songs, ear-hurting in others as of now but I feel like It slightly improved (dont know if its psychological as I really want to keep it). I know its not going to come to the point where the treble is similar to ATE-S with just burn-in but there is something with this earphone, I just cant seem to put it away, even with the faulty cable and crazy sibilance. Its too good to just eliminate. I will wait another day or two for the burn-in and the comply tips to arrive. Even if that doesn't help, I will try the 3M Micropore tape! I really want to make this work!

I would love to hear your opinion! Also I wonder other than KZ, what kind of sub 50$ brands, IEM's you could suggest for me.

Thanks a lot !!

Edit: Changed sub 100$ to sub 50$ as I want to compare with KZ


----------



## Slater (Feb 6, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> So....
> 
> 
> I took off the memory wire off my kz mmcx cable using a small knife carefully cutting between the gap of the metal wire and the cable. (I spent like 20 minutes in total which was absurd)
> ...



That's really unfortunate friend.

To remove the wire you don't need a knife at all (which as you found, strongly risks damage to the conducting wire itself).

You simply dig at the very end of the memory wire with your fingernail (which will expose it through the thin heat shrink tubing they used to attach the memory wire), and then you "peel" the memory wires back like you are peeling a string cheese stick snack:




Then at the IEM end of the memory wire, sometimes you can pull the memory wire out, and other times you can't (which if you cant you just move it around in many directions to weaken it and it just snaps off).

As far as repairing your cut wire, since the insulation is the only thing cut (and not the copper conducting wire strands), I would just paint it with a few coats of "liquid electrical tape". You can purchase this at most "big box" hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowes) in the electrical section, or on Amazon/ebay. It's a flexible rubberized coating, that will be far superior to trying to wrap it with tape (it will look better too).


----------



## hydroid (Feb 7, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> I am a kinda basshead. Thus, I am looking for IEMs with good subbass and bass. Recently I have  purchased Ostry KC06A. They say they are bassy but I am not satisfied with them. Not enough bass for me in UrbanFun either.



If you have a spare mmcx cable..you might wanna consider the tennmak piano. One of the deepest subbass iem that I've heard which only cost $11 ear head, extra nozzle mesh cover and several tips only.. Including the cable will cost around $28 though. The cable in the photo is my spare balanced mmcx from penon. I'm not a basshead but I was pleasently surpised by the depth of it's subbass that rumbles like crazy.. You can search the tennmak piano at aliexpress..


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 7, 2018)

canzz said:


> Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply.
> 
> Yes I read B9's blog posts, its really informative and detailed. Hopefully it will continue with Part-5
> 
> ...




Sorry, double post.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 7, 2018)

canzz said:


> Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply.
> 
> Yes I read B9's blog posts, its really informative and detailed. Hopefully it will continue with Part-5
> 
> ...



In light of your dilemma, let me make a few suggestions. 

1) I and others can make some suggestions. However, spending someone else's money simply comes with an enormous sense responsibility if one gets it wrong. I will make some suggestions but your best bet is to do a bit of research here.  

https://www.aproear.co.uk/

The site reviews many IEMs that are under $50. It also uses a scale to illustrate the sound of the particular IEM. 

For instance:


 

You can see that this IEM has more sub-bass(8) than midrange(6). It has more treble(7) than midrange(6) and so on. 

You can review many inexpensive, but great sounding IEMs on this site

2) Some researchers find this site useful, also.

https://audiobudget.com/product/MEMT/X5

If I were in your shoes I would take $60 - $75 and discover my own preferences.

A good starter list for $60+/- is as follows:
KZ ATR ($10) great middle of the road IEM
KZ ZS3 ($10) most comfortable IEM if it fits your ears
MEMT X5 ($20) tiny sized energetic sound
BossHiFi S1 ($20) focused warm clarity
Grand total $60+/-.

KZ ATR


 

KZ ZS3


 

MEMT X5


 

BossHiFi S1


 

All four IEMs sound good but they are very different from each other.

When all else fails, just ask yourself "What would Archer do?"


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> As far as repairing your cut wire, since the insulation is the only thing cut (and not the copper conducting wire strands), I would just paint it with a few coats of "liquid electrical tape". You can purchase this at most "big box" hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowes) in the electrical section, or on Amazon/ebay. It's a flexible rubberized coating, that will be far superior to trying to wrap it with tape (it will look better too).



The strange thing is that nothing really sounds off.... Is it possible I was lucky and didnt actually **** up anything important?


I'm currently using some sports tape (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kindmax-Kinesiology-Tape-Roll/dp/B071Z248VH) since I have spare rolls from when I did track and martial arts.


Its flexible, and has a nice fabric feel to it so it doesn't bother me at all


----------



## SomeTechNoob

If you only cut the insulation, it'll probably be fine aside from extra wear and tear.  Most wires are still covered by a thin layer of enamel which will continue to insulate it even if the rubber insulation is removed.

And anyway KZ stuff is cheap enough that you can probably afford a second pair to do correctly if you wanted.


----------



## TLDRonin

SomeTechNoob said:


> If you only cut the insulation, it'll probably be fine aside from extra wear and tear.  Most wires are still covered by a thin layer of enamel which will continue to insulate it even if the rubber insulation is removed.
> 
> And anyway KZ stuff is cheap enough that you can probably afford a second pair to do correctly if you wanted.


If I actually cut the wire I wouldn't be able to hear anything/it would sound obviously strange right?


Price isn't as much of a concern as shipping time :/


----------



## SomeTechNoob

TLDRonin said:


> If I actually cut the wire I wouldn't be able to hear anything/it would sound obviously strange right?
> 
> 
> Price isn't as much of a concern as shipping time :/



If there's sound and it isn't intermittent at all it should be fine


----------



## Mellowship

Makahl said:


> Wow, I was searching for this stainless mesh. Would you mind to share a link to buy it? Thank you!



I got it from here:

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/Dust...32800734441.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CuvFk7

But I don't really quite remember the diameter. Maybe someone else can help you.


----------



## barocka

Lord Rexter said:


> Test completed here's what I have uncovered on the Grey one (to my ears):
> 1. The bass is little bit stronger
> 2. The sound stage was a little wider
> 3. The bass is bleeding into the mids, but not too much though
> ...



Do we now know that the gray version is the new version? KZ ZS6 v2 & KZ ZS6ii 

Did KZ solve the problem of "cymbal splashiness/sibilance" ?


----------



## bsoplinger

Mellowship said:


> I got it from here:
> 
> https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/Dust...32800734441.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CuvFk7
> 
> But I don't really quite remember the diameter. Maybe someone else can help you.


That seller offers a mix of sizes as one of the options. So you'd get fewer of whatever size you actually need. But you wouldn't need to know the size. And since not all nozzles are created equal, you'd be prepared for other sized nozzles too


----------



## AKMW44

Hi, can anyone recommend cheap foam tips for kz zs6 same size as comply T400 in large or medium. I've bought 3 lots of crap either to small or very very small.


----------



## TLDRonin

AKMW44 said:


> Hi, can anyone recommend cheap foam tips for kz zs6 same size as comply T400 in large or medium. I've bought 3 lots of crap either to small or very very small.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-p...Ear-Pads-cap-memory-ear-foam/32839552465.html


These are listed as t400/t500 so they should fit


----------



## DocHoliday

DocHoliday said:


> ******* ALERT *******
> 
> *******A G A I N *******
> Could it be that KZ has been listening to us and has heeded our calls to re-release the ZS5 in it's original format?  Hmmmmmmm........
> ...




The word from George at GearBest is as follows:

"about The ZS5, we asked the supplier, 
they do not have any new release version of ZS5"

Thanks George for answering this question. 

In the meantime, anyone receiving a ZS5 in the next few weeks, please share your findings with the community. 

It may be that there are no changes 

or 

There may be a lack of communication from KZ. 

I just find it odd that the imagery would change for no apparent reason. 

Maybe it's just me. We'll see.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 7, 2018)

HiFiChris said:


> Less than an hour ago, I had some thoughts - what if the people at KZ applied the ZS6's harsh and overdone upper treble spike on purpose? It's only strident on a source with close to 0 Ohm output impedance, but due to the in-ear's impedance characteristic, it gets reduced as the output impedance climbs. Most casual listeners don't (intentionally) use high-end gear (DAPs, Amps, smartphones) with very low output impedance but smartphones or laptops with a typically rather high output resistance. So they probably did that on purpose, since adding in-line resistors (that would reduce the nasty spike) wouldn't have been a problem.


I have also thought about this. As I have low output impedance source gear and use only redbook flac, then my results with IEMs differ to some extent from many users here.



canzz said:


> After reading many reviews in here I went ahead and purchased both ATE S and ZS6.
> I am impressed with both but the overstated treble is really annoying. I read few reviews mentioning the over-stated treble (sibilance?) decreases over time but I am not so hopeful of that, to be honest.
> Currently ATE has an annoying sibilance on some tracks and ZS6 treble is *unbearable* in most tracks with vocals (even at the medium volume on mac). I heard the treble complaint many times but this does not sound like it could be improved with time or different cable to the point it will be comfortable to listen. Is there really a huge difference in treble between these two or there is something wrong with the unit I got?
> Is there a comparison of sound signatures between KZ earphones here somewhere? I wonder which model sounds like ATE and also have replaceable cable. Any help would be appreciated!


Current 5th gen regular ATE should not have any spikes in highs. ATE-S might sound different.


B9Scrambler said:


> ZSR in the house. 1st impressions, all of which are just my opinion and subject to change as I spend more time with them;
> 
> - Like the other KZ hybrids she's got some sizzle in the treble; more than the ZST but less than the ZS6
> - Bass is more restrained than I was expecting; decent extension that's not quite as good as the ZS6; more textured and dynamic than the ZST, and about on par with the ZS6
> ...


Glad I didn`t get ZSR for shells or sound. Got extra ZS3 instead and holding money for IT01.

But I`m interested if pewter grey ZS6 is different sounding than ZS6(1&2) and without treble peaks?!?


----------



## TLDRonin

DocHoliday said:


> The word from George at GearBest is as follows:
> 
> "about The ZS5, we asked the supplier,
> they do not have any new release version of ZS5"
> ...


Has KZ ever addressed the zs5 v1 and v2 issue?


----------



## bsoplinger

AKMW44 said:


> Hi, can anyone recommend cheap foam tips for kz zs6 same size as comply T400 in large or medium. I've bought 3 lots of crap either to small or very very small.


Although you're asking for T400 (4.9mm) size may I suggest instead you consider the T300 (4.5mm) size instead? The lack of any real sort of lip has me leaving the larger diameter foamies behind in my ears. The slightly smaller nozzle diameter of the tip means it'll grip the IEM nozzle better. This seller offers other quantities and sizes including T200 (4.0mm) size which you can still fit into the ZS6 nozzle and it should reduce the treble a bit because of the narrower nozzle. Whether you like the reduction or not is why I suggested the larger T300 which is still smaller than the ZS6 nozzle. The seller will also customize your order, ie just medium, only red, half medium and half large, etc.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-p...iber-Ear-Pads-cap-memory-ear/32837429305.html


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 7, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Has KZ ever addressed the zs5 v1 and v2 issue?




To my knowledg the only way we learned about the ZS5(ii) is because of published imagery.

Original image:



 

 
Subsequent image:


----------



## B9Scrambler

@CoiL  The ZSR's shells would be great for you I think. They're quite large so you'd have lots of room for modding. One of your custom backplates would likely slim it down considerably too, and of course look completely bad@$$


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Slater said:


> In case anyone cares about these mesh nozzle screens, the ZS3 uses the 4.0mm size.
> 
> I was uncomfortable rolling with no screen at all (I had removed the red filter), so I added the stainless mesh screen to protect from earwax. I've noticed no sound difference with the stainless screen vs no screen at all. I assume that's because the mesh on the stainless screen is much coarser vs the stock red screen (which is a extremely fine/restrictive fabric; probably nylon).
> 
> If it would interest anyone, I can use calipers & measure all of my IEMs and list what size screens they all use as well. Because occasionally those screens do fall off or need to be replaced from time to time.


 interested in this mod.

How do you adhere the new stainless mesh screens ?
Is there enough glue left from the red screens or do you need to add more ?

Thanks


----------



## Mellowship

HaNs SuPeR said:


> interested in this mod.
> 
> How do you adhere the new stainless mesh screens ?
> Is there enough glue left from the red screens or do you need to add more ?
> ...



The stainless mesh screens come with its own glue on the edge.


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Mellowship said:


> The stainless mesh screens come with its own glue on the edge.


Ah ha, thanks.

Maybe silly question, but do these screens ever come off and get stuck in peoples' ears ?


----------



## Mellowship

HaNs SuPeR said:


> Ah ha, thanks.
> 
> Maybe silly question, but do these screens ever come off and get stuck in peoples' ears ?


Not so silly. I too was afraid of that incident! 
Never happened, though. 
Nevertheless, I gently pressed around the mesh with the roundest edge of the caliper I used to put them on, and tested thoroughly if by any chance they would unglue themselves and come out. 
Bottom line is, it's safe.


----------



## ivo001

canzz said:


> Do you mind sharing why you choose to go with the ZS3 instead of the ZS6 (or ZS4,ZS5) ?
> 
> I recently purchased ATE-S and ZS6, to try, and hoping to make the ZS6 my new exercise earphone with the Bluetooth cable. ATE sounds good, ZS6 has incredible potential but unfortunately, the over-stated treble is hurting my ears. I am considering to try different models that are compatible with the Bluetooth cable. Cheers!



The ZS5 I got i just use with the upgrade cable. Since it is the most expensive I have out of the KZ line-up i'm not gonna use it for gym. And the ZS3 got a very good firm fit, the ZST slipped a few times out of my ear when I was doing some bench press etc.


----------



## HiFiChris

The Knowledge Zenith guys are quite clever - while their older models with permanently attached cables cable with actually pretty decent (although slightly sticky) cables, the new models with removable cables are equipped with rather low quality cables, which is a smart trick to get their customers to also buy one of their upgrade cables that don't only look great but are also very flexible (and super inexpensive for how good they are - although it seems like the people who solder the pins sometimes don't give an eff about the polarity and which side is which).


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Mellowship said:


> Not so silly. I too was afraid of that incident!
> Never happened, though.
> Nevertheless, I gently pressed around the mesh with the roundest edge of the caliper I used to put them on, and tested thoroughly if by any chance they would unglue themselves and come out.
> Bottom line is, it's safe.



Good to hear.
Thanks.

Just ordered the Dust Shell Stainless Screens. 
I had them in my cart last night before actually purchasing them.
The seller messaged me and said because of the Spring Festival in China the shop will basically be closed for a bit.
He said best to order by Feb. 9th


----------



## Podster (Feb 7, 2018)

Slater said:


> Besides the ultra-rare ZS1 v1, consider this for your basshead needs:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tia...35-SE846-HIFI-Stereo-Earbuds/32834128070.html
> 
> ...



Both good choices but my KZ Bass Bomber is my ZSN1 Mini's Don't know what it is about them but they do ring my bell





If no one has ever caught these guys in concert before I highly recommend seeing them


----------



## canzz (Feb 7, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> In light of your dilemma, let me make a few suggestions.
> 
> 1) I and others can make some suggestions. However, spending someone else's money simply comes with an enormous sense responsibility if one gets it wrong. I will make some suggestions but your best bet is to do a bit of research here.
> 
> ...




Thank you so much! I think I will end up ordering a few to try myself. Have you tried the KZ ES3? It seems to be less sibilant as well...

https://www.aproear.co.uk/ seems like an awesome website for reference! I already have few more option on top of your suggestions (Moreblue DM8, QKZ DM300, Fonge T01) also curious about the Tinaudio T2, which seems to VERY bright but review mentions "the vocals are warm and a little more ‘real’ when compared to the KZ ZS5 for instance" which made me curious..

Another one that grabbed my attention is Tiandrenhe TD08, which seems to be well-fitting to my initial requirements and B9 speaks so highly of it. I should research further on this one I guess 

Both ATE-S and ZS6 are still on burn-in and I think comply tips will arrive tomorrow. I will post updates !!


----------



## bsoplinger

canzz said:


> … which seems to VERY bright but review mentions "the vocals are warm and a little more ‘real’ when compared to the KZ ZS5 for instance" which made me curious…


Vocals can be considered as midrange, especially male ones so it is possible to have warm vocals but still have shrill highs which is what I take the word bright to mean when mentioning sound.


----------



## Wiljen

bsoplinger said:


> Vocals can be considered as midrange, especially male ones so it is possible to have warm vocals but still have shrill highs which is what I take the word bright to mean when mentioning sound.



I think the term shrill is a bit harsh.  Bright can be a good thing if not over done just like most other things.  Slightly elevated treble tends to make music sound more vibrant and enhances the perception of detail.  Overly bright is where harsh, or shrill, or sibilant becomes more synonymous.   Its all a matter of degree.


----------



## canzz (Feb 7, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Current 5th gen regular ATE should not have any spikes in highs. ATE-S might sound different.


Its not like the *ZS6* but it still bothers me a little on some tracks. It is still on burn-in and I am still waiting for the comply tips and will post updates here!



ivo001 said:


> The ZS5 I got i just use with the upgrade cable. Since it is the most expensive I have out of the KZ line-up i'm not gonna use it for gym. And the ZS3 got a very good firm fit, the ZST slipped a few times out of my ear when I was doing some bench press etc.


I am curious about the ZS3 fit. Is it much different than the ZS6 (I know ZS6 housing is a little smaller than the ZS5 but thats all I know). Have you had chance to try the ES3? A comparison with *ES3 and ZS6* fit would help me a lot.



bsoplinger said:


> Vocals can be considered as midrange, especially male ones so it is possible to have warm vocals but still have shrill highs which is what I take the word bright to mean when mentioning sound.


Thank you for the clarification! Still learning


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Zs3 is a very different fit than the ZS6.  It fills your ear instead of sitting in your ear.


----------



## Wiljen

Zsr is closer to Zs3 than Zs6 in shape but for my ear not nearly as complete a fit.  The Zs3 fits like it was made for my ear, the Zsr fits like it was made for somebody's ear, just not quite mine.


----------



## HungryPanda

I just dug out my ZS1's, wow I forgot what bass cannons they were


----------



## canzz

Wiljen said:


> Zsr is closer to Zs3 than Zs6 in shape but for my ear not nearly as complete a fit.  The Zs3 fits like it was made for my ear, the Zsr fits like it was made for somebody's ear, just not quite mine.





SomeTechNoob said:


> Zs3 is a very different fit than the ZS6.  It fills your ear instead of sitting in your ear.



Okay most seems to be really happy with the ZS3 fit. How about the ES3, can anyone make a comparison?


----------



## Wiljen

I find the es3 to be about like the Zst.  not that they are the same shape but just that they fit, but not very snugly and with a few gaps.


----------



## khighly

Did anybody get some of the 'hard' KZ Starlines (black)? My ZS6 came with really hard Starlines that hurt my ears really bad. I found a pair of the old grey ones from the ZST's and they're so much better, and create a much better seal.


----------



## DocHoliday

canzz said:


> Okay most seems to be really happy with the ZS3 fit. How about the ES3, can anyone make a comparison?




The best way to wear the ZST or ES3 is with silicone earhooks like this. Mine are very comfortable and only second to the ZS3. You can find them on AliExpress or Amazon.


----------



## DocHoliday

khighly said:


> Did anybody get some of the 'hard' KZ Starlines (black)? My ZS6 came with really hard Starlines that hurt my ears really bad. I found a pair of the old grey ones from the ZST's and they're so much better, and create a much better seal.




Agreed. The grey ones are softer and more comfortable. Apparently, KZ modified the recipe, which is unfortunate.


----------



## khighly

DocHoliday said:


> Agreed. The grey ones are softer and more comfortable. Apparently, KZ modified the recipe, which is unfortunate.


Yeah the new ones are truly hot garbage. If KZ is reading this or anyone could pass it on,* the softer ones were much better*.


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Feb 7, 2018)

The ones that were gray and translucent (the ones that came with my ZST) were a bit too hard for my ears.  The starline tips were more like spikes in my ears.  The ZS5 v1 and v2 I've got had a completely opaque but softer rubber compound for the starline tips which were more comfortable for me.

I just got another ZS5 in my hand which was shipped out in late January.  I guess I'll open it up and check and see if it's any different.

edit: They're the same soft opaque black starlines.

edit 2: They're still V2's.  Got a bit sizzle in the S's.  I still like my V1s better for sure.


----------



## khighly

SomeTechNoob said:


> The ones that were gray and translucent (the ones that came with my ZST) were a bit too hard for my ears.  The starline tips were more like spikes in my ears.  The ZS5 v1 and v2 I've got had a completely opaque but softer rubber compound for the starline tips which were more comfortable for me.
> 
> I just got another ZS5 in my hand right now which was shipped out in late January.  I guess I'll open it up and check and see if it's any different.



I also have the opaque ones that came with the ZS5v1's and they're good.My ZST starlines and earlier are good and soft. ZS6 were hard and unbearable.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I just dug out my ZS1's, wow I forgot what bass cannons they were



I would love to see KZ release an equivalent model now.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Did anybody get some of the 'hard' KZ Starlines (black)? My ZS6 came with really hard Starlines that hurt my ears really bad. I found a pair of the old grey ones from the ZST's and they're so much better, and create a much better seal.



The black ones seem to soften as they break in - it just takes a few weeks.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> The black ones seem to soften as they break in - it just takes a few weeks.



I can't have them in my ears for more than 30 minutes at a time the pain is so intense, so there unfortunately can't really be a break in period.


----------



## bsoplinger

Interesting the different responses to the KZ Starlines. Personally I've only been purchasing KZ since this past summer. I find the Starlines a bit firmer than the really dirt cheap smooth tips included in the more inexpensive KZ models but not so firm that I'd describe them as either stiff or hard. In fact I liked them enough to purchase additional sets to toss on the pile-o-tips I keep around for tip rolling. I prefer the fit and comfort of the KZ Whirlwind over the Starlines but it depends on the IEM which is the better sounding choice. I've only ever seen the Starlines in black and the Whirlwinds in blue + clear.


----------



## maxxevv

khighly said:


> I can't have them in my ears for more than 30 minutes at a time the pain is so intense, so there unfortunately can't really be a break in period.



As @Slater  has mentioned, they do break in and soften up. If they are uncomfortable out of the box, stuff them into your jeans (that you wear daily) pockets for a few days. 

My ZS5v2 and ZS6 starlines were plenty stiff out of the box. But loosened up after some use.


----------



## C2thew

canzz said:


> Thank you for the suggestions  I generally listen EDM, mostly Trance and ATE sounds good for me and if the sibilance decreases a little, I would like them even more however, ZS6 is plain unbearable
> 
> I feel like my unit is defected because I honestly don't think anyone would appreciate the sound coming from my ZS6 as of now! Medium volume on mac (spotify 320) and *most* tracks with Vocals are *hurting* my ears with the hissing noise!
> 
> ...



This is happeneing with my kz zs3 with the microphone.  Basically the volume decreases randomly.  It also decreases when I press the pause button on the,microphone cable every time the button is pressed.  There seems to be pcb issue.  I documented this about 6 pages back. Other people on these forums dobt experience this because they bought the aftermarket cables


----------



## jaydm99

khighly said:


> Did anybody get some of the 'hard' KZ Starlines (black)? My ZS6 came with really hard Starlines that hurt my ears really bad. I found a pair of the old grey ones from the ZST's and they're so much better, and create a much better seal.


I bought a set of black Starlines from ebay. They're the black ones. It's not hard, at least to me and I didn't feel any discomfort while wearing them. My gf also uses it on her ZS3 and haven't heard any complaints about it.
The stock black Starlines though that came with my ZS5 V1 causes itch the first time I wore them.


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> I bought a set of black Starlines from ebay. They're the black ones. It's not hard, at least to me and I didn't feel any discomfort while wearing them. My gf also uses it on her ZS3 and haven't heard any complaints about it.
> The stock black Starlines though that came with my ZS5 V1 causes itch the first time I wore them.



I've noticed that sometimes tips have a bit of mold release compound still on them. It's kind of hard to see, as it's like a clear film. I've found this causes irritation.

I now clean my new silicone tips with rubbing or denatured alcohol and a lint free cloth (like micro fiber). I haven't had any irritation problems with tips since doing this.

Obviously this isn't for foam tips; only silicone.


----------



## NeonHD

*People of the KZ thread I need your help!!!*

So long story short, I f*cked up the BA drivers on my ZS6 by accidentally pressing on them too hard when modding. Now there is hardly any treble coming out of the right earpiece. Assuming that I broke a wire inside, how do I open the shell? There are three star-like screws on it but I can't find a screwdriver piece that exactly matches it. I got one that is shaped the same but it's too big . Anyone know if there's a name for this particular screw and its size?

Also if I ever get the shell opened, is the repair process as simple as finding a broken wire and reattaching it using solder?


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> @CoiL  The ZSR's shells would be great for you I think. They're quite large so you'd have lots of room for modding. One of your custom backplates would likely slim it down considerably too, and of course look completely bad@$$



Yeah, there is much inside room for different drivers BUT I have small ears and like deep insertion, so, not so good. ZS3 fits like a glove and I will be using those shells for modding


----------



## chrispl0x (Feb 8, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> *People of the KZ thread I need your help!!!*
> 
> So long story short, I f*cked up the BA drivers on my ZS6 by accidentally pressing on them too hard when modding. Now there is hardly any treble coming out of the right earpiece. Assuming that I broke a wire inside, how do I open the shell? There are three star-like screws on it but I can't find a screwdriver piece that exactly matches it. I got one that is shaped the same but it's too big . Anyone know if there's a name for this particular screw and its size?
> 
> Also if I ever get the shell opened, is the repair process as simple as finding a broken wire and reattaching it using solder?


The Zs6 uses torx screws. I went to go buy a torx screwdriver today that came with torx bits to see if I could open my pair up. I think the ZS6s use size T5 or T4 torx screws; my screwdriver came with a T6, but it was barely too big.


----------



## AKMW44

HiFiChris said:


> The Knowledge Zenith guys are quite clever - while their older models with permanently attached cables cable with actually pretty decent (although slightly sticky) cables, the new models with removable cables are equipped with rather low quality cables, which is a smart trick to get their customers to also buy one of their upgrade cables that don't only look great but are also very flexible (and super inexpensive for how good they are - although it seems like the people who solder the pins sometimes don't give an eff about the polarity and which side is which).


Hi, which cable is good.Ive seen loads around 6 quid but stumped for choice


----------



## AKMW44

bsoplinger said:


> Although you're asking for T400 (4.9mm) size may I suggest instead you consider the T300 (4.5mm) size instead? The lack of any real sort of lip has me leaving the larger diameter foamies behind in my ears. The slightly smaller nozzle diameter of the tip means it'll grip the IEM nozzle better. This seller offers other quantities and sizes including T200 (4.0mm) size which you can still fit into the ZS6 nozzle and it should reduce the treble a bit because of the narrower nozzle. Whether you like the reduction or not is why I suggested the larger T300 which is still smaller than the ZS6 nozzle. The seller will also customize your order, ie just medium, only red, half medium and half large, etc.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-p...iber-Ear-Pads-cap-memory-ear/32837429305.html


Thank you for a great reply, il put an order in now.


----------



## WalterTorino (Feb 8, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> *People of the KZ thread I need your help!!!*
> 
> So long story short, I f*cked up the BA drivers on my ZS6 by accidentally pressing on them too hard when modding. Now there is hardly any treble coming out of the right earpiece. Assuming that I broke a wire inside, how do I open the shell? There are three star-like screws on it but I can't find a screwdriver piece that exactly matches it. I got one that is shaped the same but it's too big . Anyone know if there's a name for this particular screw and its size?
> 
> Also if I ever get the shell opened, is the repair process as simple as finding a broken wire and reattaching it using solder?



I have this small kit including torx from t4 to t7. t4 or t5 (don't remember exactly) fits well.
I recommend you to by something similar to my kit - quite often it's very useful especially when you need to open headphones, smartphones or something like that.


----------



## HungryPanda

If you find the KZ Starline tips too hard, I sometimes use RHA tips they are very comfortable to me
https://www.amazon.com/RHA-Dual-Den...=UTF8&qid=1518093886&sr=8-4&keywords=RHA+tips


----------



## AKMW44

Hi , can I use 0.78 mm size pins on kzzs6 and 0.75mm .Will it damage the connections. Thanks


----------



## Abe Fallorina (Feb 8, 2018)

does anyone know how to extract the 0.75 mm male connector from the wires? or where can I buy these 0.75 mm kz connectors?

I want to make my own cable for kz zs6


----------



## HiFiChris

AKMW44 said:


> Hi, which cable is good.Ive seen loads around 6 quid but stumped for choice



I only have one, and it's a silver (-plated or -coloured, I don't really care) one. It was offered as a bundle with the ZS5 (back when there was only the v1 with hollower midrange but without that nasty upper treble spike), sold by a store whose name I forgot since it was quite complicated (no "real" name but many numbers and letters). I guess they're all about equally great when it comes to appearing valuable and being super flexible. The only thing you should check when you get it is if the phase is correct and if the sides are correct as well - the people who solder the jacks to these separately offered cables don't really seem to care about the polarity and sides, so you may have to switch sides or invert one of them.


----------



## TheGame21x

AKMW44 said:


> Hi , can I use 0.78 mm size pins on kzzs6 and 0.75mm .Will it damage the connections. Thanks



Yes you can, but I wouldn't recommend it. Prolonged use will widen the connector bores and will make the .75mm connectors fit loosely. If that's not a concern and you plan on switching to .78mm cables permanently then it shouldn't be too much of an issue though.


----------



## nihontoman

I'm just waiting for KZ to sell some planar IEMS for 60$


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 8, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> If you find the KZ Starline tips too hard, I sometimes use RHA tips they are very comfortable to me
> https://www.amazon.com/RHA-Dual-Den...=UTF8&qid=1518093886&sr=8-4&keywords=RHA+tips




Thanks for the......tip. 

Usually, the olive-shaped eartips don't seal well for me. I find that these work better for me.
You just know those white ones are going on my black ZSR'S and on the white ZSR's whenever they are released. 



 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B078...ds=TENNMAK&dpPl=1&dpID=51Sqh-+7i0L&ref=plSrch


----------



## mrmoto050 (Feb 8, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I'll leave that to someone who owns the ZS5(ii) and the ZS6(i). I don't know how the soundstage was effected by relocating one of the ZS5's BAs.
> 
> I can tell you that in my ZS6(i) the soundstage is quite wide but psycho-acoustics, I think, alters soundstage perception because the vocals are more forward. It's not necessarily a mid-centric IEM because the lows and highs have a lot of presence.  In my ZS6(i), the vocalist is clearly standing a few feet in front of the entire ensemble almost as if the vocalist is looking at you and reaching for your hand as he/she croons or unleashes their fury.
> 
> ...



I have a Black Pair of the ZS6's and just purchased some grey ones, they are definitely different , seem more balanced soundstage (JMO)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0774M4G84/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Also bought some Blue ZS5's and they sound different than my Grey ones (JMO) here is a picture of the inner workings




https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0725Q26XW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 9, 2018)

mrmoto050 said:


> I have a Black Pair of the ZS6's and just purchased some grey ones, they are definitely different , seem more balanced soundstage (JMO)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0774M4G84/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> Also bought some Blue ZS5's and they sound different than my Grey ones (JMO) here is a picture of the inner workings
> 
> ...




Thanks for this post. It's definitely good to hear that the ZS6 sound signature may be refined even further. 
How is the treble on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6? 
How is the midrange (fuller/thinner) on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?
How is the bass on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?

Also, tell us, when did you pick up your first (grey) ZS5 and is it a ZS5(i) or (ii)?
What are the differences you hear between your older ZS5 and your newer ZS5?

Thanks for your impressions and input because we all really want to know.

These tracks should serve as a good test bed, then everyone with a ZS5 like yours and a ZS6 like yours can listen to these same tracks and relate to your description. 

This way we are all on the same page. Take your time. No rush.

Thanks again.



Does the treble just go off the charts forcing reduced volume? 


Does the bass get muddy as the track gets progressively more complex?


Which ZS6 and which ZS5 has more definition and slam in the bass region?


Is there any sibilance?


Timbre/tone.


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> The best way to wear the ZST or ES3 is with silicone earhooks like this. Mine are very comfortable and only second to the ZS3. You can find them on AliExpress or Amazon.


Hey Doctor, what artist is that Masterworks "Ascension"? Just curious


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for this post. It's definitely good to hear that the ZS6 sound signature may be refined even further.
> How is the treble on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?
> How is the midrange (fuller/thinner) on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?
> How is the bass on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?
> ...



I will try and do some comparisons this weekend, I don't have time now. I also want to open them up and see if there is anything different or I am just brain dreaming.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 8, 2018)

mrmoto050 said:


> Hey Doctor, what artist is that Masterworks "Ascension"? Just curious



Masterworks Collection: Ascension by Otello.
2 hour mix of Classic Progressive Trance.



 

 

I'll try to upload it somewhere (SoundCloud, YouTube, etc.) and link later.

The opening track on Masterworks Collection: Ascension is this track:

The closing track on Masterworks Collection: Ascension is this track.

The way I get my fix is Masterworks Collections laid-back vibe and energetic vibe in juxtaposition simultaneously for two hours.

Breakout those ES3s and feel it!

It never gets old.


----------



## barocka

mrmoto050 said:


> I will try and do some comparisons this weekend, I don't have time now. I also want to open them up and see if there is anything different or I am just brain dreaming.



We are looking forward.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 8, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> If you find the KZ Starline tips too hard, I sometimes use RHA tips they are very comfortable to me
> https://www.amazon.com/RHA-Dual-Den...=UTF8&qid=1518093886&sr=8-4&keywords=RHA+tips


Where can I order those tips to EU? RHA doesn`t seem to deliver to Estonia.


TheGame21x said:


> Yes you can, but I wouldn't recommend it. Prolonged use will widen the connector bores and will make the .75mm connectors fit loosely. If that's not a concern and you plan on switching to .78mm cables permanently then it shouldn't be too much of an issue though.


Seriously, imho it is pseudo issue. I have both sizes and really can`t make much difference! Those cheapo female 2-pins might even have bigger tolerances than 0.03mm does!
Anyway, if  someone really has such "loose" problem with 2-pin - just bend pins slightly and it is secure again 

Btw, don`t want to be rude but those music preferences and video links are kind of annoying (please put them into spoiler at least).

Another thing... I got my latest ATR from GB and I might be wrong, but it sounds closer to ATE 5th gen and not so "dry" sounding as 1st gen (early ones). To me, latest ATR sounds slightly better and refined/natural. Maybe it is just batch difference or KZ QC but they are darn great IEMs for just 4$ ....insane! ;P


----------



## nkramer

+1 doc.
i have a ton of old orbital grooves podcasts (DJ mixes) circa 2005-6+ (lots of good stuff)


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 8, 2018)

AKMW44 said:


> Hi, which cable is good.Ive seen loads around 6 quid but stumped for choice


dc resistance and pics of the cheap (<$10) "upgrade" cables for kzs:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> Masterworks Collection: Ascension by Otello.
> 2 hour mix of Classic Progressive Trance.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks


----------



## Willber

CoiL said:


> Where can I order those tips to EU? RHA doesn`t seem to deliver to Estonia.


Perhaps the UK site will deliver them to you:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RHA-Dual-Density-Silicone-Earphone-black/dp/B015N4V97K


----------



## bsoplinger (Feb 8, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Where can I order those tips to EU? RHA doesn`t seem to deliver to Estonia.


Although the main URL is USA the info is for all their resellers. The little luggage icon (or briefcase ) is for online stores. There's a Europe listed, perhaps that will work for you.

https://www.rha-audio.com/us/retailers


----------



## DocHoliday

mrmoto050 said:


> I will try and do some comparisons this weekend, I don't have time now. I also want to open them up and see if there is anything different or I am just brain dreaming.




Again, take your time and thank you. This will be priceless information for the whole community. ......but, not pressure  .....LOL


----------



## CoiL

hakuzen said:


> dc resistance and pics of the cheap (<$10) "upgrade" cables for kzs:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853



Great post and keep up updating! 
Btw, I just bought that silver-transparent-white 2-pin with black rings jack cable You measured lowest impedance. Hopefully will get same good one.
Will measure mine when I get it and post results. NiceHCK one with white rings really isn`t good when it comes to numbers (too high & uneven impedance), maybe will try to make it into custom (wooden plugs&bits) and resolder, maybe helps.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 8, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Btw, don`t want to be rude but those music preferences and video links are kind of annoying (please put them into spoiler at least).
> 
> Another thing... I got my latest ATR from GB and I might be wrong, but it sounds closer to ATE 5th gen and not so "dry" sounding as 1st gen (early ones). To me, latest ATR sounds slightly better and refined/natural. Maybe it is just batch difference or KZ QC but they are darn great IEMs for just 4$ ....insane! ;P




I suspected that they might be a slight annoyance, but I've no clue how to hide them under the spoiler heading.  A brief "how to" and I'm good to go. 

BTW, anyone can chime in on how to do this.

Also, good to know about the current ATR.  I have two fresh pairs on the checklist and look forward to hearing them. It's one of the best all-around inexpensive IEMs IMHO. 

What are the differences that are immediately noticeable between the ATE(v) and ATR(ii)?


----------



## MrSlim

Has anyone found any cheap/good 2.5mm balanced cables with 2 pin connectors for KZ IEMS?  I bought one of their 3.5 MM silver "upgrade" cables , and could re-terminate with a 2.5 MM TRRS, but I'd like to confirm if all 4 wires go all the way to the connector.  Given that it's pretty cheap to start with it's no big loss, but it would be nice if someone has already gone down that path..


----------



## CoiL (Feb 8, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> What are the differences that are immediately noticeable between the ATE(v) and ATR(ii)?



I have removed nylon grills from nozzles on my ATE 5th gen... so, I removed them also from ATR to compare and used exactly same wide-bore smallest tips, both without mic, same song looping few mins before change ( _Lifesigns - Cardington - Different_ , 16/44 FLAC, iBasso DX5X HO with HW&FW mods ), with Y-splitter, changing IEMs fast as possible (with song @ pause).
These are most noticeable differences I could detect on 1 song basis:
* ATE sub-bass/bass is slightly more present
* ATR soundstage depth layering/positioning is slightly closer to headroom center point
* ATR has maybe slightly better soundstage width but this maybe due to previous notice

overall, differences are very small and when not concentrating on details, one may not tell the difference.
But with good source gear and great mastered song - ATR is probably more "neutral" sounding and refined. 
Personally I think I still prefer ATE due to seemingly slightly larger soundstage and slightly more distant presentation/imaging/layering. 
Need more burn-in time as ATE is well behind 200h and ATR just about 5h playtime.

Let me remind You that ATE 5th gen nozzle inner diameter went larger slightly and to me seems has exactly same physical build as ATR.
Tomorrow will open both up and see if drivers are same looking or different as previously (ATE = red shell with tiny "tube" in front of diaphragm, ATR = blue shell without tiny "tube" and same hole size in front of diaphragm).


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Feb 8, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I suspected that they might be a slight annoyance, but I've no clue how to hide them under the spoiler heading.  A brief "how to" and I'm good to go.
> 
> BTW, anyone can chime in on how to do this.
> 
> ...





Spoiler



like this



[sp oiler]like this[/spo iler]

without the extra spaces of course


----------



## Podster

Man I love little black Thongs

OK, back on track, look what just blew into town I've been reading everyone talking about this thing having the blue rubbery upgrade cable and I've got like three of them already! If this bass is all that on these with the tri-braid I'm ordering that better SP cable for them and the Red's/Black's may be taking a backseat


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Just received the ZSR. Sounds like a softer version of ZS6 with a wider soundstage. Of course, clarity-wise, ZS6 still a step further. Nevertheless, love the differences. Will let them burn in for couple days and update my impressions after.


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> I suspected that they might be a slight annoyance, but I've no clue how to hide them under the spoiler heading.  A brief "how to" and I'm good to go.
> 
> BTW, anyone can chime in on how to do this.
> 
> ...



Give this a little listen


----------



## Willber

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Just received the ZSR. Sounds like a softer version of ZS6 with a wider soundstage. Of course, clarity-wise, ZS6 still a step further.


To my ears that is what the CM5 sounds like, although it retains the clarity.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Willber said:


> To my ears that is what the CM5 sounds like, although it retains the clarity.



did you mean uiisii CM5?


----------



## Willber

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> did you mean uiisii CM5?


Sorry, yes.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Willber said:


> Sorry, yes.



Interesting. Amazon US has them for $11.99 now with prime.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07413X964/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought a pair and will compare them with ZSR and ZS6


----------



## Willber (Feb 8, 2018)

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Interesting. Amazon US has them for $11.99 now with prime.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07413X964/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I bought a pair and will compare them with ZSR and ZS6


Yes, there was a discussion about them a few days ago - some people found a code to get them for $8.99.
I bought mine (blue) from Amazon.UK and have another (black, for spare) on the way.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Cool! I'll leave my impression later.


----------



## bsoplinger (Feb 8, 2018)

MrSlim said:


> Has anyone found any cheap/good 2.5mm balanced cables with 2 pin connectors for KZ IEMS?  I bought one of their 3.5 MM silver "upgrade" cables , and could re-terminate with a 2.5 MM TRRS, but I'd like to confirm if all 4 wires go all the way to the connector.  Given that it's pretty cheap to start with it's no big loss, but it would be nice if someone has already gone down that path..


Not sure if you're a handy type person or not…

I got this upgrade cable which was popular a bit back:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lat...e-0-75mm-2-Pin-2-PIN-Upgrade/32823059586.html
Then this 2.5mm TRRS jack
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sal...dio-Adapter-Converter-Solder/32663266504.html
Had some of these from before but a bit of shrink wrap would do the trick if you don't:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sal...e-For-Sennheiser-Clear-Black/32718680699.html

Took seconds to unscrew the 3.5mm jack on the cable noting which was the left and right positive line, lots longer to find my stupid multimeter and again seconds to figure out left and right negative. I spent the most time finding a diagram of the wiring for the 2.5mm balanced jack. A minute or two with the soldering iron and I was done.

I went this route because the cheapest 2.5mm balanced cables I could find were $25 and didn't seem as nice to me as the $10 KZ cable.

I'll even save you from having to hunt down the wiring


Spoiler



For the AK 2.5mm wiring:




For the HiFiMan 3.5mm wiring:


----------



## DocHoliday

CoiL said:


> I have removed nylon grills from nozzles on my ATE 5th gen... so, I removed them also from ATR to compare and used exactly same wide-bore smallest tips, both without mic, same song looping few mins before change ( _Lifesigns - Cardington - Different_ , 16/44 FLAC, iBasso DX5X HO with HW&FW mods ), with Y-splitter, changing IEMs fast as possible (with song @ pause).
> These are most noticeable differences I could detect on 1 song basis:
> * ATE sub-bass/bass is slightly more present
> * ATR soundstage depth layering/positioning is slightly closer to headroom center point
> ...




Thanks for the impressions. 

So, if I understand you correctly the ATE has:
- slightly more bass/sub-bass
- slightly more space between instruments 
- slightly more soundstage depth.

The ATR:
- may have slightly more soundstage width 
- has a more shallow soundstage depth 
- slightly less bass/sub-bass 
- presentation is slightly more in-head

If I understand you correctly then either the ATE(v) has more treble than the ATE(ii) that I own or the current ATR has less treble than the original. 

My 1yr old ATR has more treble than my ATE(ii).

I picked up my ATE(ii) back in April 2016 and the ATR the moment they were originally released. 

I always preferred the ATR because it has more treble, though I have been using my ATE(ii) to fill in while I'm waiting for the new ATRs to arrive. 

Thanks for the impressions. I think I might order a set of ATE also.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

hydroid said:


> If you have a spare mmcx cable..you might wanna consider the tennmak piano. One of the deepest subbass iem


Thanks for the clue. They are number in my wish list.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 8, 2018)

Podster said:


> Man I love little black Thongs
> 
> OK, back on track, look what just blew into town I've been reading everyone talking about this thing having the blue rubbery upgrade cable and I've got like three of them already! If this bass is all that on these with the tri-braid I'm ordering that better SP cable for them and the Red's/Black's may be taking a backseat



Looking forward to your impressions on those. 
How do they look in the hand?
Is it the photo or are those darker than they appear in the promotional images? 



 

Also, those look like the cables that came with my ZS3's way back when they were first released and I've got three pairs of them that I've never used.

BTW, which better cable (SP) are you referring to?


----------



## Podster

The one you posted the other day, the ones I told you looked like the ones I have on my Mee PX. Yours I believe had the carbon look barrel at the jack end. They have that shiny foil type wrap on them. I left them at work but I'll post some more shots of them tomorrow.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 8, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the impressions.
> 
> So, if I understand you correctly the ATE has:
> - slightly more bass/sub-bass
> ...


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 9, 2018)

This is good. Honestly, I didn't think I would ever reorder an ATE because I have two ATE(ii) that I only use while working outdoors. If the ATE(v) can be modified to come close to the ZS5(i) sound signature then I have underestimated it's capabilities. 

From your previous posts I'm guessing the modification includes the ED9 filters (I have three sets), though I'm not sure which one to use (brass or gold).





I wonder what this ATE(ii) would sound like with the same modifications.

BTW, I just checked and, apparently, it's been almost two years and my ATEs are as good as new. Way to go KZ.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 9, 2018)

Not only ED9 filters (nozzles btw), there are more to be done 
Search thread for more info but main things are ED9 brass nozzles, open-back faceplate and port hole tuning.

Edit:

Here are details about ATE FF-mod (Forest Fairy):


> * Top plastic covers removed and replaced with wood backplates.
> * Golden mesh-grills taken from inside and installed inside wood backplate, right above driver unit without gap to driver shell.
> * Plastic nozzles have been cut off, sanded level/even, over-drilled holes and replaced with ED9 brass nozzles.
> * Body behind backplates has been sanded down to lower enclosure shape reaching out of ear.
> ...


----------



## CoiL (Feb 9, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I have removed nylon grills from nozzles on my ATE 5th gen... so, I removed them also from ATR to compare and used exactly same wide-bore smallest tips, both without mic, same song looping few mins before change ( _Lifesigns - Cardington - Different_ , 16/44 FLAC, iBasso DX5X HO with HW&FW mods ), with Y-splitter, changing IEMs fast as possible (with song @ pause).
> These are most noticeable differences I could detect on 1 song basis:
> * ATE sub-bass/bass is slightly more present
> * ATR soundstage depth layering/positioning is slightly closer to headroom center point
> ...



*!!! IMPORTANT NOTICE !!!
*
Current *5th gen ATE* and* latest ATR* use *EXACTLY SAME DRIVER* !!!
Both have actually ATE 5th gen driver - red plastic shells with tiny "tube" around hole in front of diaphragm, black solder PCB ring, same driver back filter fabrics.

That`s what I suspected as I didn`t hear so coherent/musical, spacious sound from previous ATR. Unfortunately I can`t compare old ATR to new one anymore because I have removed those drivers for another DIY modification. But old drivers look different for sure.
Slight differences I "heard" before are probably due to IEM changing and different playtime h.
But old ATR sounded different from ATE for sure (I`ve compared them on this thread previously).

KZ - I`m starting to HATE YOU because of all those changes and not notifying ppl !!!
But thanks for another set of ATE 5th gen drivers - I really like those and for 4$ - why not! ATE costs half more LOL!


----------



## hakuzen

the shop from i were getting kz curved lowest impedance (black rings in plug) seems to have run out of them.. i've received the "new" one, with white rings (higher impedance, imbalance: left 0.79, right 0.60, ground 0.71 ohms).
so avoid it.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ord-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ/32788061546.html


----------



## CoiL (Feb 9, 2018)

NoooOOOOO!!!.... I just ordered from there yesterday! I don`t need 2 unbalanced high-impedance cables! ;(

Oh well... guess I have to resolder both and use new ends for both, otherwise they are junk.

Edit: canceled my order. Hopefully will get refund.

hakuzen - any other good cheap cable recommendations?
I already have great MMCX cable from HCK (MPS logo on jack) which seems to have real silver plating as their regular price is around 30$ (got it with discount for about 16$).
I just need another good one with 2-pin.

Edit:

I cut off jack from that white rings "silver plated upgrade" cable that has imbalance and seems that 2-pin ends are soldered ok as my multimeter reads R=0.5 Ohm/ 0.7 Ohm G and L=0.5 Ohm/ 0.7 Ohm G (I extracted multimeter leads resistance of 0.3 Ohm). Still pretty high impedance but at least got rid of imbalance. Will install new 90' angled jack and it will be useable again.


----------



## hakuzen

my apologies.. i was ordering one cable each, because was afraid that shop was selling and old good batch and it could end any time.
my last order was made on dec 29th, but received a zs3 cable instead of usual zst one. seller resent a "good" one for free on jan 11th, but used an slower shipping method. it has arrived today.
maybe there are some ali shops selling the old batch. if pics show black rings, there is a chance.

so imbalance (extra resistance in one side) is due to the jack? crap jack or they are persistent on making the same bad solder, lol..


----------



## hakuzen

great if you were able to cancel the order!

the next one in terms of conductivity and no imbalance is the classic 6 cords with metal plug. zero coat, so greenization is fast, and bulkier than others.
some people was showing >$10 cables in this thread recently. i bet nicehck is listing similar cables than your mmcx but with 2 pins (hope they are not 0.78mm though).

about the old cable with black rings.. someone posted (feedback) a pic on dec 11th which shows black rings. but can't see the rings color in other pics posted after that:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...graded-Plated-Silver-Cable-2/32793505506.html

this has been sold only 5 times, and pics and feedback shows black rings:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...lated-Cable-for-KZ-ZST-Audio/32798645849.html

and there are others.. but always a risk.


----------



## Podster (Feb 9, 2018)

CoiL said:


> *!!! IMPORTANT NOTICE !!!
> *
> Current *5th gen ATE* and* latest ATR* use *EXACTLY SAME DRIVER* !!!
> Both have actually ATE 5th gen driver - red plastic shells with tiny "tube" around hole in front of diaphragm, black solder PCB ring, same driver back filter fabrics.
> ...



So it's really kind of a love/hate relationship then

@DocHoliday , I can't really say if these Gray's are darker than advertised but to me they are true to the Pewter color advertised. These are my 666'ers with the various SP cables, Blk/Bronze, Pewter/Silver and of course the old Red Iron Man specials I can tell you this the new bass enhanced Gray model does require more juice to drive than the originals.






At this point I almost feel obligated to try and find a Green pair

If I had an inkling of skillz I'd like to try this little ditty, price is right for sure!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Nl...757e02f1670c0f75ae852909151818802432613884225


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 9, 2018)

Uuuuhhhhr.  ..let's try again...


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 9, 2018)

Podster said:


> So it's really kind of a love/hate relationship then
> 
> @DocHoliday , I can't really say if these Gray's are darker than advertised but to me they are true to the Pewter color advertised. These are my 666'ers with the various SP cables, Blk/Bronze, Pewter/Silver and of course the old Red Iron Man specials I can tell you this the new bass enhanced Gray model does require more juice to drive than the originals.
> 
> ...



Love the "IronMan" moniker for those reds.

Yeah these photos show them as a bit darker than I pictured them. As long as they have that satin sheen and even more refined sound, then I'm all in and maybe for more than one.

HiFiChris had a notion a few pages back about KZ's choices and your comment about more juice may confirm his suspicions. 

Did a little research for you. Did someone say green?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B078...+ZS6+green&dpPl=1&dpID=41gUWTE08gL&ref=plSrch

.....and you know those have to be the ZS6(i)!

What say you when comparing the "IronMan" to the Pewter on these tracks? No rush.


DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for this post. It's definitely good to hear that the ZS6 sound signature may be refined even further.
> How is the treble on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?
> How is the midrange (fuller/thinner) on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?
> How is the bass on your new ZS6 compared to your original ZS6?
> ...


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Love the "IronMan" moniker for those reds.
> 
> Yeah these photos show them as a bit darker than I pictured them. As long as they have that satin sheen and even more refined sound, then I'm all in and maybe for more than one.
> 
> ...



THX for the Green pair link, guess I could have just ordered them thru NiceHCK on ALiEx! I'll try to do some cross comparisons with these cuts later today, the finish is satin and a darker Pewter which I'm liking. Still way lighter than the black, here's a shot of one in my ears so please excuse an old man and his hairy ears






Man is that ever a scary sight


----------



## kuko61

I made a photo of an open KZ ZSR. I had to open it, because the 2pin connector has been 180° rotated 
I had only a phone, sorry for lower quality.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> THX for the Green pair link, guess I could have just ordered them thru NiceHCK on ALiEx! I'll try to do some cross comparisons with these cuts later today, the finish is satin and a darker Pewter which I'm liking. Still way lighter than the black, here's a shot of one in my ears so please excuse an old man and his hairy ears
> 
> 
> 
> Man is that ever a scary sight



Haha! Nice ears Podman. There is a reason I always mod shots of any phones in my ears to black and white; my ears are always bright red and I look ridiculous


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Haha! Nice ears Podman. There is a reason I always mod shots of any phones in my ears to black and white; my ears are always bright red and I look ridiculous



Yes, I resembles that comment I'm pretty amazed at the definition my iPhone 6 has however I did apologize to the squeamish when I posted that hairy beast


----------



## chrispl0x

Wassup ya'll! I've been lurking this thread for a few weeks now, and I realized I made an account years ago, so I finally logged in and joined the fun 8) 

I got a pair of KZ6 around Christmas time and I've been loving them so far. Recently, I was looking into getting another KZ iem - either the Zs3, ZST, or ZSR. DocHoliday's ZST review on Amazon got me to order them last night, and they should be coming in tonight! Ima be breaking those in tonight and comparing them to my zs6


----------



## nkramer

welcome chris!


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 10, 2018)

chrispl0x said:


> Wassup ya'll! I've been lurking this thread for a few weeks now, and I realized I made an account years ago, so I finally logged in and joined the fun 8)
> 
> I got a pair of KZ6 around Christmas time and I've been loving them so far. Recently, I was looking into getting another KZ iem - either the Zs3, ZST, or ZSR. DocHoliday's ZST review on Amazon got me to order them last night, and they should be coming in tonight! Ima be breaking those in tonight and comparing them to my zs6




Welcome to the thread! 

Sorry for your wallet! 

Most of us here have a benign addiction that empties our wallets everytime Knowledge Zenith releases a new model, which is often.

KZ releases them and we scoop them up. The veterans here collect KZ's like Beanie Babies, but get far more use out of these collectibles than a Beanie Baby collector ever could.

At the moment you've started off with KZ's flagship IEM, the ZS6. 

The ZST is an excellent IEM, especially at $20, but the ZS6 outperforms it in build and sound signature. 

The ZS3,  again,  is a very good IEM and is the most comfortable IEM that have ever graced my ears, but the ZS6 outperforms it by a country mile. 

The ZSR is the newest of the bunch and, thus far, there is one official review by Wiljen and a first impressions comment by B9.

Wiljen:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/reviews

B9's comments:


B9Scrambler said:


> ZSR in the house. 1st impressions, all of which are just my opinion and subject to change as I spend more time with them;
> 
> - Like the other KZ hybrids she's got some sizzle in the treble; more than the ZST but less than the ZS6
> - Bass is more restrained than I was expecting; decent extension that's not quite as good as the ZS6; more textured and dynamic than the ZST, and about on par with the ZS6
> ...



I think the ES3 is worth a mention here, but until I get a hold of the ZSR I can't really comment on whether or not one should have both the ZSR & the ES3). Both sport the 10mm dynamic driver and one balanced armature that focuses on treble. The ZSR contains an additional balanced armature that focuses on the midrange and the ZSR driver housings with their bulbous faceplates contribute to a wider soundstage. As a collector of KZ's my vote is too have both (ZSR & ES3), but I'm sure not everyone collects KZ's, so........

At any rate welcome to the thread and hope you enjoy your KZ's as much as we do. 

As always,  sorry about your wallet.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ES3 is pretty darn nice and def worth a mention. Still need to pick up a set.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 9, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> ES3 is pretty darn nice and def worth a mention. Still need to pick up a set.




I really like it....a lot. It's sort of a slightly warmer ZST (warmer vocals and deeper bass) . There's more micro-detail than the ZS3, but slightly less than the ZST.  All of those who find the ZST treble to be a bit much should be looking directly at an ES3. KZ clearly had them in mind when releasing it. The bass isn't as clean, but it definitely performs. I imagine the ZSR sub-bass is the equivalent since it's the same 10mm driver.


I plan on doing a review of them, but the BA in my right earpiece is damaged. Sure, I'll open 'em up and try to fix it, but for a proper review these should be replaced. 

....and true to form, I'll be ordering more. I hope they issue an ES3 in that deep red they used for the ED12. KZ could get some use out of that color (we know the ED12 sales were abysmal) while the rest of us can get a new color option. Win-Win in my eyes!


----------



## Limjialok

Hi guys. 2 questions
1) I have a zsr and ZSE. Should i buy a zst or es3 to use with the bluetooth kit?
2) any current coupons for gearbest?? I found a coupons 2 weeks ago for my zsr whoch brings the cost from $21.99 to $16.99, sweet!


----------



## riffrafff

Great.  Thanks to you guys, I've ordered a pair of ES3s.  Geeze.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 10, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> ES3 is pretty darn nice and def worth a mention. Still need to pick up a set.




BTW, I read your DM5 review and found the same anomaly that you did.
Outside of vocals, the center was just dead space which I've never experienced with an IEM before. When you couple that dead space with the DM5's strident tendencies in the higher frequency range. .....

.....well, let's just say I'm not a fan, which is unfortunate because it had other attributes.
.....and like Brando says, it "could've been a contender".


 

With all that said, I'd take my ES3 over the DM5 eight out of ten times, even though it's slightly less refined. The DM5's separate drivers really give it the upper hand when it comes to definition, but it's shortcomings are simply too obvious to overlook. The only time things get uneasy with the ES3 is if a track is mastered with mid-bass that's laid on a bit too thick.


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> ES3 is pretty darn nice and def worth a mention. Still need to pick up a set.



To me, ES3 shells look exactly like Fonge T01 which are quite uncomfy for me, so, ES3 is no option for me. But I wonder what drivers it has inside - anyone has pic?


----------



## nofacemonster

Slater said:


> This is an all too common issue with the KZ 2-pin models, and is usually caused by accidentally plugging in the cable backwards. The plug will technically "fit" when plugged in backwards, but the only thing holding it in is the friction of the pins (allowing it to separate & fall apart at any time). Plugging one side in backwards will also cause that side to be out of phase.
> 
> When both plugs are oriented properly and seated fully, it takes an incredible amount of force to unplug them. There is a tight mechanical fitment due to the plug's shape - curved on one end and flat on the other - and it's designed to fit like a key in a lock.
> 
> ...



I just discovered that my KZ ZS5 had been plugged wrong way all this time, the left channel i plugged facing the L outwards. but when i plug them correctly L marking on the wire turns inward while R marking turns outwards on the R channel. I hope i am correct.


----------



## Wiljen

Watch the orientation of the jack in the earpiece too as KZ has been known to just slap them in without paying any attention to which way they are turned.  I had one set of Zs6 where the two earpieces were in opposite orientations. . Luckily those are easy to take the face off of and reverse one.


----------



## nofacemonster

Wiljen said:


> Watch the orientation of the jack in the earpiece too as KZ has been known to just slap them in without paying any attention to which way they are turned.  I had one set of Zs6 where the two earpieces were in opposite orientations. . Luckily those are easy to take the face off of and reverse one.


So as long as plug fits correctly its alright right? Because i am little concern over the polarity of the drivers.


----------



## Wiljen

I haven't seen one where the wires were reversed on the under-side of the plug so I think that is fairly consistent.   Not sure I have seen enough pairs to say conclusively it couldn't happen, but in my experience reversing the jack is a much more common issue than the wires being soldering on in reverse.


----------



## kuko61 (Feb 10, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Watch the orientation of the jack in the earpiece too as KZ has been known to just slap them in without paying any attention to which way they are turned.  I had one set of Zs6 where the two earpieces were in opposite orientations. . Luckily those are easy to take the face off of and reverse one.


I had the same problem. The original KZ ZSR cable has an angled connectors and the correct orientation of the headphone jacks is as follows:


----------



## Wiljen

kuko61 said:


> I had the same problem. The original KZ ZSR cable has an angled connectors and the correct orientation of the headphone jacks is as follows:



Most are aware of that, what I was referencing was I had a set where the jack (shown in red) had the curved end to the front on one earpiece and to the rear on the other.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 10, 2018)

kuko61 said:


> I had the same problem. The original KZ ZSR cable has an angled connectors and the correct orientation of the headphone jacks is as follows:




I think KZ could learn something from newcomer TRN when it comes to the female connectors. 





Much cleaner and probably more sturdy.....




...than this


 

Hope you don't mind my using your photo for illustrative purposes kuko.

Anyway, sure once you connect the cables the connection is solid, but does it have to look so...."Toys "R" Us"?


----------



## kuko61 (Feb 10, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Most are aware of that, what I was referencing was I had a set where the jack (shown in red) had the curved end to the front on one earpiece and to the rear on the other.


Yes, I found bad oriented connector right after opening the package. I open left earpiece and turn jack to correct orientation. This photo is taken after the fix. On the previous page I posted a photo of the open ZSR with bad oriented connector.


----------



## Podster

As Wiljen says watch orientation, for me I pretty mich need a magnifying glass to tell but the plug reciever and plug have one end flat and the other rounded. Just line those up correctly and you should be good to go.


----------



## hakuzen

kuko61 said:


> I made a photo of an open KZ ZSR. I had to open it, because the 2pin connector has been 180° rotated
> I had only a phone, sorry for lower quality.





Wiljen said:


> Most are aware of that, what I was referencing was I had a set where the jack (shown in red) had the curved end to the front on one earpiece and to the rear on the other.



another one..


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> BTW, I read your DM5 review and found the same anomaly that you did.
> Outside of vocals, the center was just dead space which I've never experienced with an IEM before. When you couple that dead space with the DM5's strident tendencies in the higher frequency range. .....
> 
> .....well, let's just say I'm not a fan, which is unfortunate because it had other attributes.
> ...



I feels the same way about my ZSR. Would take it over my DM5 and RT-1. Sorry to hear I wasn't the only one with weird DM5 performance.


----------



## Nikostr8

Hi everyone, new user here.

I just bought a pair of zs3 and zst with their respective silver cables for my and my gf after reading a bit about them.

Being a total newbie, are there some mods for this IEMs to improve their sound?

Also, i listen a lot  of black/death metal so im not sure if i did a good purchase for this cause ( total noob in this field )


Thanks in advance to any possible reply


----------



## Slater (Feb 10, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> Hi everyone, new user here.
> 
> I just bought a pair of zs3 and zst with their respective silver cables for my and my gf after reading a bit about them.
> 
> ...



You can tip roll (try different tips), as finding better  or different tips will help with sound signature, comfort, seal, etc.

In addition, here's a list of the most common/most recommended mods to each.

Recommended mods to ZS3:

Foam mod: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1161#post-13476376
Nozzle screen mod: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1171#post-13484497
Checking driver phase: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067

Recommended mods to ZST:

BA driver mod: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650
Nozzle foam mod: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1858#post-14024416
Checking driver phase: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067

You should also make sure the vent ports aren't clogged on any of the IEMs (sometimes they are). You can do this with a sewing needle.


----------



## Saoshyant

B9Scrambler said:


> I feels the same way about my ZSR. Would take it over my DM5 and RT-1. Sorry to hear I wasn't the only one with weird DM5 performance.



Never tried the DM5, but loving my RT-1.  I am, however, someone aiming for a fun signature instead of balanced/neutral which is the typical goal of many Head-fiers.  My only issue is some discomfort, but I've had much worse.


----------



## Podster

hakuzen said:


> another one..



Sorry @hakuzen , I always thought if the were just lined up the polarity would be correct! I guess if the plug was angled it might have the cable going the wrong way out of the shell.  I stand corrected


----------



## B9Scrambler

Saoshyant said:


> Never tried the DM5, but loving my RT-1.  I am, however, someone aiming for a fun signature instead of balanced/neutral which is the typical goal of many Head-fiers.  My only issue is some discomfort, but I've had much worse.



ZSR definitely ain't balanced/neutral, haha. Better than the ZS6 in that respect though. It comes across more coherent than the RT-1 to me which lacks upper mid quantity and suffers due to excess mid-bass. I can live with all that, but the driver flex simply kills it for me. ZSR suffers from none of those issues thankfully. I love the RT-1's fit/shell, just not with the stock cable.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 10, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> ZSR definitely ain't balanced/neutral, haha. Better than the ZS6 in that respect though. It comes across more coherent than the RT-1 to me which lacks upper mid quantity and suffers due to excess mid-bass. I can live with all that, but the driver flex simply kills it for me. ZSR suffers from none of those issues thankfully. I love the RT-1's fit/shell, just not with the stock cable.




Hmmm.....sounds like the RT-1 and TRN V10 have a lot in common. Not so much in the mid-bass,  though it is lifted slightly,  but more so in the upper midrange. I can handle it, but I prefer the midrange/vocals to have more presence. The TRN reminds me of the ZS5(i) to a certain degree due to the somewhat distant vocals in a 2+2 (quad) IEM.

I think Coil might enjoy the V10 since he prefers slightly distant vocals. I, on the other hand, am seriously considering ordering the red ZSR when it's released and if I find the color a bit garish then I may just open them up and transplant the drivers into the TRN because the V10 shells are very comfortable. They were clearly trying to imitate the iBasso IT03. 



Spoiler


----------



## HiFiChris

hakuzen said:


> another one..



Looks like the people who solder the cables and IEMs don't really give an eff about the correct polarity. Looks like one can be happy if the drivers in their multi-driver IEMs are correctly soldered to the crossover.

No reported fried amplification stages because of shorts caused by incorrectly soldered upgrade cables yet?


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

So the second and last of my KZ ZS3's also gone bad on me. Same issue again. Right side stopped producing any sound. Gone in exact 58 days (Didn't even use them daily. More like 40+ days). Don't know what's the recourse from this point forward. I'm obviously not sending it back to China to get it repaired. I got it for like 5 or 6 bucks. But yeah it does feel a bit bad. Hope my beloved ZS6 keeps serving me till a reasonable amount of time. Now I can't say about other KZ stuff, but I would strongly suggest everyone here to buy KZ ZS3 from Gearbest with a great deal of caution. There've been dozens of cases involving ZS3 here on HeadFi with the exact same issue. "You get what you pay for" slays once again.


----------



## Saoshyant

B9Scrambler said:


> ZSR definitely ain't balanced/neutral, haha. Better than the ZS6 in that respect though. It comes across more coherent than the RT-1 to me which lacks upper mid quantity and suffers due to excess mid-bass. I can live with all that, but the driver flex simply kills it for me. ZSR suffers from none of those issues thankfully. I love the RT-1's fit/shell, just not with the stock cable.



I really don't mind it's cable, although I haven't checked if it's .78 or .75 yet for trying another.  I haven't tried the ZSR very long so far, but it's enjoyable as well.  I really should give the ZSR more of a listen, but I've been kind of addicted to an earbud I got recently which shows some incredible promise for my tastes.  I should give TNT more of a try too for that matter.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Saoshyant said:


> I really don't mind it's cable, although I haven't checked if it's .78 or .75 yet for trying another.  I haven't tried the ZSR very long so far, but it's enjoyable as well.  I really should give the ZSR more of a listen, but I've been kind of addicted to an earbud I got recently which shows some incredible promise for my tastes.  I should give TNT more of a try too for that matter.



I didn't have a lot of luck rolling cables unfortunately. Most of them threw it completely out of phase and made them really hollow. Only the cables that came with the Rose Mojito and Masya paired properly. Next time you listen to the ZSR, try the RT-1's stock tips with it. I found they paired quite nicely.


----------



## Saoshyant

B9Scrambler said:


> I didn't have a lot of luck rolling cables unfortunately. Most of them threw it completely out of phase and made them really hollow. Only the cables that came with the Rose Mojito and Masya paired properly. Next time you listen to the ZSR, try the RT-1's stock tips with it. I found they paired quite nicely.



Hmm, liked the Mojito cables more, but will try the Rose Pudding cable first as it's meant for over ear.  Will have to see where I put the RT-1 tips, but appreciate the suggestion.  Currently I'm using Hifiman tips I enjoy a lot.  Guess I'll see what I think about RT-1 cable with Pudding too.


----------



## khighly

Any reports on the new ZS6's having a different sound signature yet? I would like to buy a new pair of ZS6's.


----------



## kuko61

HiFiChris said:


> Looks like the people who solder the cables and IEMs don't really give an eff about the correct polarity. Looks like one can be happy if the drivers in their multi-driver IEMs are correctly soldered to the crossover.


I think, that wires inside the headphones are a soldered properly in my case. I have tried a few test sounds, and in my opinion, the headphones are in the phase after turning the left connector to right position.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 10, 2018)

khighly said:


> Any reports on the new ZS6's having a different sound signature yet? I would like to buy a new pair of ZS6's.



Double post


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 12, 2018)

Podster said:


> .....look what just blew into town I've been reading everyone talking about this thing having the blue rubbery upgrade cable and I've got like three of them already! If this bass is all that on these with the tri-braid I'm ordering that better SP cable for them and the Red's/Black's may be taking a backseat



There are two reports that the sound signature may be altered. Podster's just came in a few days ago. I'm sure he'll fill us in once he's had a good listen.

I forget who the second person is, but you should be able to find it 6 or 7 pages back. He mentioned that his new grey ZS6 sounds different.


----------



## Strat Rider (Feb 10, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> ES3 is pretty darn nice and def worth a mention. Still need to pick up a set.


Nice to have some ES3 love.

I bought an ES3 and a ZST at the same time.

Fortunately,  I am not overly sensitive to highs. (in fact, my ex said I am the most "insensitive  person"  in the world) .

To my ears the ES3 has a better overall balance (not sibilent) and atually fits my ear better due to the slightly different shell shape.

I'm still tip rolling the ZSR to see where it lands.


----------



## RyanM

B9Scrambler said:


> I didn't have a lot of luck rolling cables unfortunately. Most of them threw it completely out of phase and made them really hollow. Only the cables that came with the Rose Mojito and Masya paired properly. Next time you listen to the ZSR, try the RT-1's stock tips with it. I found they paired quite nicely.



I find it interesting that you had issues with the RT-1. I find it to be excellent both in soundstage an d imaging departments. I sort of understand the mid bass thoughts, however, I’d describe the sound as thicker and more organic than any more recent KZ offering (for ex.). Resolution is a step up in general, as I suppose it should be at $50 USD or so. I think it’s pretty tremendous. Of course all relative to preferences, and mine veer closer to neutral, than say, bright.


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 10, 2018)

Podster said:


> Sorry @hakuzen , I always thought if the were just lined up the polarity would be correct! I guess if the plug was angled it might have the cable going the wrong way out of the shell.  I stand corrected


polarity was ok. the connector was only flipped down, so can't use angled plugs till i open the shell and fix it. but holes were too narrow at the beginning (impossible to plug any cable), so i made a video and got a refund.



HiFiChris said:


> Looks like the people who solder the cables and IEMs don't really give an eff about the correct polarity. Looks like one can be happy if the drivers in their multi-driver IEMs are correctly soldered to the crossover.
> 
> No reported fried amplification stages because of shorts caused by incorrectly soldered upgrade cables yet?


ouch, that would be terrible, and making a video to prove that the IEMs were the responsible of the damage would be impossible.
hope this never occur, and hope our sources include short-circuit protection (do they? clipping suggests they do have a protection)


----------



## khighly

Ok so, final thoughts on the IT03 vs ZS5v1. 

IT03 is better than the ZS5v1, however it's not by a huge margin. Both are using original ZST starlines as they provide the best seal with the IT03's and work just as good on the ZS5v1's.
- IT03 is quite a bit brighter, reminding me of a ZS6 without the piercing highs. There's definitely a noticeable bump that can be overwhelming at times. Luckily like the ZS6's, you adjust fairly quickly.
- ZS5v1 sounds more flat and neutral than the IT03, but the ZS5v1's have more lows.
- IT03 has less bass, and less mid bass. I find both of these to have quality lows that I can't really distinguish any real faults in. ZS5v1 is a few dB up from the IT03's in sub & mid bass.
- IT03 much better isolation! I wish this was something KZ would concentrate on next. It's such a world of difference not being able to hear the bus in the background even at low volumes. ZS5v1's are poor, same with just about every KZ IEM I've tried.
- Major_ 'Your Mileage May Vary'_ warning: KZ has never really disappointed me with FIT of the IEM, but these IT03's aren't that comfortable. ZST era starlines got them fairly comfortable, but the 'sort of custom' didn't really fit my ear. They're getting better over 2 weeks now, but they still can't be listened to well.
- Soundstage I can't really make a quality opinion here. They're both OK. ZS6 definitely had the advantage.
- KZ's IEM's come with better cables and accessories (somehow?).
- Warranty goes to iBasso of course. KZ...who cares, they're only $20 -- buy another.

IT03's are plenty good. I can't find many faults with them. They're a slightly different sound signature than the ZS5v1's. There seems to be diminishing returns as you go higher in price. If you're only using Chi-Fi IEM's, KZ's, you're probably coming really close to the big guys in 2018. Will I be buying any more expensive IEM's? Probably not, but I am going to hold onto the IT03's if they stop hurting over the next few weeks.


----------



## khighly

Also, ZS5v1's and many KZ IEM's are better than the 1More Triples. Don't waste your money. Phillips SHE3590 from CVS sounds similar to 1More Triple's.


----------



## vladstef

khighly said:


> Ok so, final thoughts on the IT03 vs ZS5v1.
> 
> IT03 is better than the ZS5v1, however it's not by a huge margin. Both are using original ZST starlines as they provide the best seal with the IT03's and work just as good on the ZS5v1's.
> - IT03 is quite a bit brighter, reminding me of a ZS6 without the piercing highs. There's definitely a noticeable bump that can be overwhelming at times. Luckily like the ZS6's, you adjust fairly quickly.
> ...



I have to say that I am not entirely surprised. There is a ranking + measurements thread by @crinacle that has been very impressive imho. He doesn't have the fear of putting some very expensive IEMs in their places and doesn't look at price what so ever in his personal rankings, he also values correct instrument timbre a lot. He puts IT03 quite low on his ranking which always made me think that many people have been overestimating IT03 in particular. He describes it as 'Excellent bass and clarity. Hollow midrange and somewhat metallic treble.' The funny thing is that this is how I heard ZS5.


----------



## khighly

vladstef said:


> I have to say that I am not entirely surprised. There is a ranking + measurements thread by @crinacle that has been very impressive imho. He doesn't have the fear of putting some very expensive IEMs in their places and doesn't look at price what so ever in his personal rankings, he also values correct instrument timbre a lot. He puts IT03 quite low on his ranking which always made me think that many people have been overestimating IT03 in particular. He describes it as 'Excellent bass and clarity. Hollow midrange and somewhat metallic treble.' The funny thing is that this is how I heard ZS5.



I agree with the mids. Bass is pretty good. Highs are a bit overpowering at first, but using these for a few weeks the highs are tame now. No metallics. Nothing nearly as much as ZS6...those things are high pitched meteor nukes to your ears. Both I got used to both qucikly. I enjoy ZS6, ZS5, IT03.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 11, 2018)

khighly said:


> Ok so, final thoughts on the IT03 vs ZS5v1.
> 
> IT03 is better than the ZS5v1, however it's not by a huge margin. Both are using original ZST starlines as they provide the best seal with the IT03's and work just as good on the ZS5v1's.
> - IT03 is quite a bit brighter, reminding me of a ZS6 without the piercing highs. There's definitely a noticeable bump that can be overwhelming at times. Luckily like the ZS6's, you adjust fairly quickly.
> ...




Thank you for your candor and diligence. It is much appreciated! 

More evidence that just because an IEM costs $$$$+/- doesn't mean it sounds orders of magnitude better. 

A little better here. .....a little better there......well,

Suppose someone compares the IT03 to the ZSR. 
Suppose KZ releases an IEM like the ZSR but with the ZST dynamic driver instead of the ES3 dynamic driver which would result in the IEM having a more neutral bass response. 
Suppose someone compares that to the IT03. 

Suppose.....suppose. ....suppose. ....
It's never ending. 

When I pour over impressions and reviews such as this one and B9's review of the Simgot EN700 Pro and even the Brainwavz B400, I have no desire to venture into the upper echelon of IEMs. The Campfire Audio Polaris is $900, the Brainwavz B400 is $190 and the Simgot EN700 Bass Pro is $150. The B400 for sheer resolution and the EN700 Bass Pro for sheer musicality. 

Hmmmm.....CA Polaris@$900 

or 

Brainwavz B400@$190 +  the Simgot EN700 Bass Pro@$150=$340. 

Hmmm. ...decisions. ....decisions......

cleaner bass, softer bass, more punchy bass, warmer mids, leaner mids, forward mids, recessed mids, smoother mids, brighter mids, extended treble, smoother treble, upper treble bias, lower treble bias,  narrow soundstage, average soundstage, above average soundstage, wide soundstage, deeper soundstage, oval soundstage, spherical soundstage.......shall I go on about resolution......and on about imaging......and on and on.......?

 The truth is that there is no end in sight. There is no endgame IEM. KZ has proven this on a micro level. 

Love/hate for the ED9 tuning
Love/hate for the ZS5(i) tuning 
Love/hate for the ZS6(i) tuning 
and on it goes. .....

You can spend ridiculous sums of money on IEMs .......but....the thing is.....you don't need to.
For the most part, find out what YOU like, do a little research, expand your sampling and save your wallet.

My words and thoughts.
No one else's.


----------



## Podster

Great post Doc, probably why I'll never buy an iem more expensive than my FLC8S of couse I also have my ASG Rockets and IMR R1's. Can't imagine spending any more on any iem as these all meet my SS requirements, the rest would just be keeping up with the Jones's!

To your list of B400 and Simgot EN700 you could add the entire KZ range going all the way back to the MRing and ANV and still be less than the Polaris.

Like a short guy buying a big jacked up pickup truck someone needing to have (as well as thinking he has the best of the best) in the best DAP AK offers with a pair of Noble Encores) is obviously compensating for something as well as showing off that wealth I learned my lesson with home audio and if you spend all your time and more importantly your money to reach the holy grail one misses the mark IMO but remeber this is just my opinion and you know what they say about those

Would have given you some AB on the Red ZS6 vs. the bass Pewters but I can only do it after I have the them set up identical (tips & cables). Only fair way since I don't have any formal testing gear plus I'll want to hear them on my iPhone6 as well as a couple dedicated DAPs.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 11, 2018)

Podster said:


> Great post Doc, probably why I'll never buy an iem more expensive than my FLC8S of couse I also have my ASG Rockets and IMR R1's. Can't imagine spending any more on any iem as these all meet my SS requirements, the rest would just be keeping up with the Jones's!
> 
> To your list of B400 and Simgot EN700 you could add the entire KZ range going all the way back to the MRing and ANV and still be less than the Polaris.
> 
> ...





> "probably why I'll never buy an iem more expensive than my FLC8S"



One of the few on a very short list of IEMs for me to acquire.



> "Can't imagine spending any more on any iem as these all meet my SS requirements,"



Yeah, I collect KZ's because it's fun and the education is a nice bonus, but that's pretty much where it ends for me. If I were to spend inordinate amounts of income trying to find that holy grail of sound, then I'd likely end up poor and frustrated. "Confirmation Bias" and  "New Toy Syndrome" skew much of what we read, which is why I seek out as many reviews on an IEM as possible to find the "common thread". 



> "someone needing to have....the best DAP AK offers with a pair of Noble Encores"



Way back in October when I first received the ZS6(i) I remember a reviewer (whom I respect) lamenting the fact that his new ZS6 at $49 was perhaps equivalent to or more engaging than his $400 Noble Trident and he was questioning the current pricing structure in the IEM marketplace. I realize that this is anecdotal evidence and there is a list of variables a mile long, but it does give one pause for concern.
Just sayin'....

Astell & Kern DAPs at $3500 [as opposed to great sub-$1k DAPs (Opus#2, Fiio X7ii, Sony NW ZX300, etc)] for in-ear monitors is MOSTLY an exercise in futility IMHO. Doesn't mean I'm right,...just one guys opinion. I gravitate more towards Brooko's sentiments when it comes to a good DAP and coloration. 



> "Would have given you some AB on the Red ZS6 vs. the bass Pewters but I can only do it after I have the them set up identical (tips & cables). Only fair way since I don't have any formal testing gear plus I'll want to hear them on my iPhone6 as well as a couple dedicated DAPs."



Definitely take your time on the IronMans vs the SilverSurfers (LOL). If the hobby becomes a chore then it ceases to be fun. Enjoy them first. Have fun with them first and foremost. The pros and cons will eventually surface in the process. They always do.



Spoiler


----------



## fluteloop

serious (not serious) does anyone think kz will ever offer filters like the ed9 for models that have BA's in the nozzle? and does anyone think KZ will ever have a single BA or Hybrid BA model in the Ed Shell ?


----------



## Willber

khighly said:


> IT03's are plenty good. I can't find many faults with them. They're a slightly different sound signature than the ZS5v1's. There seems to be diminishing returns as you go higher in price. If you're only using Chi-Fi IEM's, KZ's, you're probably coming really close to the big guys in 2018. Will I be buying any more expensive IEM's? Probably not, but I am going to hold onto the IT03's if they stop hurting over the next few weeks.


I agree with the point about diminishing returns and have always set myself a limit of about $30, but I couldn't resist the chance to get the AAW N1 for $37 instead of $112 (in fact I now have two). They might not be 4x better than cheaper phones but they are certainly a noticeable improvement in both sound and build quality IMO.


----------



## fluteloop

Willber said:


> I agree with the point about diminishing returns and have always set myself a limit of about $30, but I couldn't resist the chance to get the AAW N1 for $37 instead of $112 (in fact I now have two). They might not be 4x better than cheaper phones but they are certainly a noticeable improvement in both sound and build quality IMO.




Where you buy diz for such low cashdiz?


----------



## Willber

Drumkrunk said:


> Where you buy diz for such low cashdiz?


https://www.null-audio.com/collecti...ticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor

They are on sale until Chinese new year (or until they sell out).


----------



## HaNs SuPeR (Feb 11, 2018)

williamclarkonet said:


> just got my silver earphone cable for my KZ ZS3 excited to see if the make a difference


I've got one arriving soon for ZS3s also.
 After I ordered I started wondering about which cables turn Green.

Are there some rules of thumb for buying cables that don't turn Green ? Specific Brands or Types ?
Does the Silver Plating prevent cables turning Green from oxidation ?
Also, is it decent quality silver plating on these cheap cables or more like silver looking paint ?


----------



## paulindss

Drumkrunk said:


> serious (not serious) does anyone think kz will ever offer filters like the ed9 for models that have BA's in the nozzle? and does anyone think KZ will ever have a single BA or Hybrid BA model in the Ed Shell ?



Some time ago appeared a image with future launches of KZ. And a hybrid with piston style (format of ED Shells) was on the list.


----------



## Viber

Finally finished my ZSR review:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/19867/

I hope i was fair and managed to explain the advantages alongside the caveats.


----------



## Leo-rume

HaNs SuPeR said:


> I've got one arriving soon for ZS3s also.
> After I ordered I started wondering about which cables turn Green.
> 
> Are there some rules of thumb for buying cables that don't turn Green ? Specific Brands or Types ?
> ...


I see you own the ZS3... I'm new here and I have a pair on the way (aliexpress).. I want to order some foam tips alongside (Heard they marginally improve bass and as well as isolation) but I'm unsure of the size of the tips to order. On aliexpress I see t100, t200 and t400 tips apparently meant for 3mm, 4mm, and 5mm hole sizes.. So I was wondering if you knew the hole size for the ZS3's... Thanks


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Leo-rume said:


> I see you own the ZS3... I'm new here and I have a pair on the way (aliexpress).. I want to order some foam tips alongside (Heard they marginally improve bass and as well as isolation) but I'm unsure of the size of the tips to order. On aliexpress I see t100, t200 and t400 tips apparently meant for 3mm, 4mm, and 5mm hole sizes.. So I was wondering if you knew the hole size for the ZS3's... Thanks


from a previous post: "↑ Can anyone tell me what is the diameter of the speaker stem of the ZS3? I'm trying to get a set of aftermarket tips for the ZS3.
5mm, but keep in mind there is no lip to hold tips on."
Use the search for ZS3 tips, bunch of posts on them


----------



## Leo-rume

HaNs SuPeR said:


> from a previous post: "↑ Can anyone tell me what is the diameter of the speaker stem of the ZS3? I'm trying to get a set of aftermarket tips for the ZS3.
> 5mm, but keep in mind there is no lip to hold tips on."
> Use the search for ZS3 tips, bunch of posts on them


Alright.. Thanks. Will do that...


----------



## Slater (Feb 11, 2018)

Leo-rume said:


> I see you own the ZS3... I'm new here and I have a pair on the way (aliexpress).. I want to order some foam tips alongside (Heard they marginally improve bass and as well as isolation) but I'm unsure of the size of the tips to order. On aliexpress I see t100, t200 and t400 tips apparently meant for 3mm, 4mm, and 5mm hole sizes.. So I was wondering if you knew the hole size for the ZS3's... Thanks



Foam tips reduce bass, not increase it.

If you still want to try them on the ZS3, the ZS3 has a 5.0mm* nozzle size.

And the other person was correct - it has no lip.

_* I mistyped the original size. The post has been corrected. Sorry for the confusion._


----------



## Willber (Feb 11, 2018)

Leo-rume said:


> I see you own the ZS3... I'm new here and I have a pair on the way (aliexpress).. I want to order some foam tips alongside (Heard they marginally improve bass and as well as isolation) but I'm unsure of the size of the tips to order. On aliexpress I see t100, t200 and t400 tips apparently meant for 3mm, 4mm, and 5mm hole sizes.. So I was wondering if you knew the hole size for the ZS3's... Thanks


Hi, welcome to the forum. The ZS3 nozzles are supposed to be 5mm, but I have just measured mine and they appear to be a bit smaller, about 4.5mm. This post might help you choose:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-919#post-13044013

Edit: I see @Slater posted while I was writing mine. I would go with what he says.


----------



## Slater

Willber said:


> Hi, welcome to the forum. The ZS3 nozzles are supposed to be 5mm, but I have just measured mine and they appear to be a bit smaller, about 4.5mm. This post might help you choose:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-919#post-13044013
> 
> Edit: I see @Slater posted while I was writing mine. I would go with what he says.



Yeah, sorry about that. I had a brain fart and mistyped. Been studying all day and my brain is fried.

The ZS3 *IS 5mm*. The ZS5/ZS6 is a hair under 6mm.

I have corrected the previous post. Sorry for the confusion!


----------



## Leo-rume

Slater said:


> Foam tips reduce bass, not increase it.
> 
> If you still want to try them on the ZS3, the ZS3 has a 4.0mm nozzle size.
> 
> ...


Ok.. Thanks... Glad its 4mm. Been sweating it out trying to find 5mm triple flange tips too. One more thing please. I would like a recommendation on the best eartip to get for the ZS3. By "best" I mean one that does not reduce the original bass in anyway and I don't mind if it inevitably boosts it... Also dont mind if it slightly dims the treble. I currently have foam, triple, double as well as kz starline tips on my cart. Any form of guidance would be very useful. Thanks


----------



## Leo-rume

Slater said:


> Yeah, sorry about that. I had a brain fart and mistyped. Been studying all day and my brain is fried.
> 
> The ZS3 *IS 5mm*. The ZS5/ZS6 is a hair under 6mm.
> 
> I have corrected the previous post. Sorry for the confusion!


Lol.. Just seeing this... Back to sweating it out then... Awaiting your recommendation
 Thanks


----------



## Willber

Leo-rume said:


> Lol.. Just seeing this... Back to sweating it out then... Awaiting your recommendation
> Thanks


Did you see the link I posted in my earlier reply to you?


----------



## Leo-rume

Willber said:


> Did you see the link I posted in my earlier reply to you?


Ohh thanks. I just did.. Based on that and some light research, I think the kz starline tips would suit my taste better.. Still going to get the others as well though, just to satisfy my curiosity.. 
Although, the starline tips are 4mm inner diameter. I'm hoping with a little stretching I can get them to fit the ZS3's nozzles


----------



## Willber

Leo-rume said:


> Ohh thanks. I just did.. Based on that and some light research, I think the kz starline tips would suit my taste better.. Still going to get the others as well though, just to satisfy my curiosity..
> Although, the starline tips are 4mm inner diameter. I'm hoping with a little stretching I can get them to fit the ZS3's nozzles


They should fit fine. If you have any problems, try moistening the nozzle with a licked finger and warm the tips in your hand to soften them.


----------



## Slater

Leo-rume said:


> Ohh thanks. I just did.. Based on that and some light research, I think the kz starline tips would suit my taste better.. Still going to get the others as well though, just to satisfy my curiosity..
> Although, the starline tips are 4mm inner diameter. I'm hoping with a little stretching I can get them to fit the ZS3's nozzles



Yes, Starlines will fit - they will easily stretch to fit the ZS3.

Different tips work differently for some people vs others. The best recommendation is to "tip roll" to find the tip that fits you the best and has the best sound.

I personally love Starline tips, and use them on numerous IEMs. I recommend that you at least try them on the ZS3.

But tips are so cheap (and a selection usually comes with most IEMs you buy), you can afford to buy a wide variety for just a few dollars. And silicone tips pretty much last forever (unlike foam tips, that are fragile and require regular replacement). I keep all of my tips in a box, so I can pull them all out and test out a variety on each IEM.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 12, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> ES3 is pretty darn nice and def worth a mention. Still need to pick up a set.




The tri-braid upgrade cable made them a little brighter than the stock cables. I was literally surprised at the difference. They're warm and smooth with the stock cable, but with the tri-braids the mid-bass just seemed to drop and the upper midrange and lower treble moved forward. I've been used to the warmer presentation. Not sure if I like the brighter sound with the upgrades. I'll have to play with them for a few days. 

Didn't expect this. 

Anyone else have the ES3, tri-braided upgrade cable, stock cable and a DAP with less than 1.0 impedance? 

If so, test while using a splitter and please use the track in the spoiler drop down to report your findings (if your DAP is android based you can access YouTube).

Thanks 

Fiio X3(i)
Output impedance - 0.3 Ω（32Ω)
Output power - 540 mW (16 Ω/THD+N＜1%)

KZ ES3
Impedance - 18 Ω (though it's been reported to have 10 Ω)
Frequency Response  7hz - 40khz
Sensitivity - 106db




 



Spoiler


----------



## Surrealsky

Seems like forever since i last posted here. Kinda back into the game and have gotten a pair of the zs6. So far its living to the hype.


----------



## Puggie

Just jumped on the KZ bandwagon last week with a set of ZS6 and the bluetooth cable. I went with the 6s thinking if they sound terrible the housings should be good for some DIY fun.

So plugged them in fresh out of the box and had a listen. they sounded terrible, proper rip your ears off top end. So I plugged them into my iPod, charged it and left them playing in a drawer at work over the weekend. Came back to them (1900mAh battery so still playing) a couple of days later and they sound SO much more balanced.

So now i think they are pretty good. and my Sonion drivers I'm planning a DIY build with need some new housings! 

The Bluetooth module seem reliable and convenient, but the audio quality really suffers at both ends of the spectrum.

After a couple of weeks I'm going to try and measure their response and see if they can be tweeked to tame the occasionally lairy top end. Some tracks I get quite bad sibilant artefacts, I think its bad recordings being accented by a frequency response issue and hope that it can be addressed with a suitable damper or tube on one or both of the BAs. For the money though they are pretty damn impressive, very comfy too.


----------



## barocka

Surrealsky said:


> Seems like forever since i last posted here. Kinda back into the game and have gotten a pair of the zs6. So far its living to the hype.




What color is your Zs6? When did you get it?


----------



## bsoplinger

AliExpress is having a winter sale. A few dollars off a couple of models like the ED, ZS3,  and ED9. They're under the audio tab
https://sale.aliexpress.com/__pc/winter_sale_electronics.htm


----------



## CoiL (Feb 12, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The TRN reminds me of the ZS5(i) to a certain degree due to the somewhat distant vocals in a 2+2 (quad) IEM.
> I think Coil might enjoy the V10 since he prefers slightly distant vocals.


Not sure I would like V10 due to not very positive impressions. But You have both V10 and ZSR? I would like to see side-by-side pic to compare their shape.
If TRN or ZSR price drops under 10$ somehow, then I will buy them for shells propably. Actually, if V10 shell is "same" as IT03 and better than ZSR, then
I would like to have it in clear shell and paint it from inside with sparlking-green and install wooden faceplates... would look really cool imho.



vladstef said:


> He puts IT03 quite low on his ranking which always made me think that many people have been overestimating IT03 in particular. He describes it as 'Excellent bass and clarity. Hollow midrange and somewhat metallic treble.' The funny thing is that this is how I heard ZS5.


And then there is still subjective taste and hearing, source gear, amping etc. ....ZS5v1 highs to me are not metallic or sibilant in any way (and I`m very sensitive to highs btw). Hollow midrange could be again subjective taste to what we like to hear and how our brain/ears perceive it. Why I like more "hollow" distant mids and imaging of vocals - because I reached my own audio bliss with open-back headphones and matching gear to it, also like to listen lot with full-range speakers and enjoy live concerts - my brain/ears are more adjusted to this type of "lively" sound and I really enjoy it. And funny thing is - I don`t miss a bit from midrange, details etc., at least I don`t feel or hear so. One may say that I don`t hear all mids "glory" due to "recessed" mids... but I really don`t think or hear so. It`s subjective all the way.
Atm, I`m aiming towards IT01 as it seems to be something I would enjoy based on many reviews and sound descriptions.


----------



## Surrealsky

barocka said:


> What color is your Zs6? When did you get it?


 Red and got it for well over a week now.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 12, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Not sure I would like V10 due to not very positive impressions. But You have both V10 and ZSR? I would like to see side-by-side pic to compare their shape.
> If TRN or ZSR price drops under 10$ somehow, then I will buy them for shells propably. Actually, if V10 shell is "same" as IT03 and better than ZSR, then
> I would like to have it in clear shell and paint it from inside with sparlking-green and install wooden faceplates... would look really cool imho.
> 
> ...




My ZSR hasn't arrived yet. That red ZSR pic is a KZ image. When they do come in I'll post a pic of them side by side. 

I am listening to the ZS5(i) and TRN right now, back to back. They sound quite different. I can understand them getting "not very positive impressions" because TRN tuned them slightly awkwardly.  It appears that TRN focused more on science when tuning these. They focused on decreasing the ear's most sensitive frequency range (2khz -6khz) in the Fletcher-Munson Curve. It's a bit awkward because there is a sharp drop in the upper midrange, but then it attempts to resume things 2-3khz up the line. This causes the lower treble to sound unnatural and causes the midrange to sound distant. Like the ZS5(i), it's not my favorite sound signature, mainly due to sound signature preferences,  but I do like it's warm presentation.  Whenever I'm in the mood for a warm sound signature I'm not drawn to one over the other. To me they're about equal though they don't sound the same. 

My EQ for the TRN V10:


 

BTW, like you, I hear no sibilance or harsh highs with my ZS5(i). Mine is very smooth. Very smooth with zero fatigue during very long listening sessions.

Fletcher-Munson Curve: https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/


----------



## CoiL (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks. I also read out of reviews, that they have dip somewhere in higher-mids. my most sensitive area is about 6.2-7.5kHz btw.
ZS5v1 has small dip around 4.3kHz as much I have looked at graphs but I don`t hear anything lacking or missing with my gear pairing.
Waiting for Your comparison pics.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Foam tips reduce bass, not increase it_._



Agreed, unless foams are the only way to get a decent seal. Then they will increase bass substantially.


----------



## svil3

oyobass said:


> Agreed, unless foams are the only way to get a decent seal. Then they will increase bass substantially.


This, indeed.


----------



## Strat Rider

With the cable talk that's been going around, brings a question, not about the iem plugs, but the cable pins.
Background, I mistakenly bought the silver cable with the white rings on the plug, and without any marking for L/R on the cable pin housings or manufacturer on the strain relief or anywhere else. Before I plug them into my ZS6, If I test them with a DMM, which position on the plug is left/right? Secondly, since the cables and ear pieces are keyed, how can I insure the cables are correct regarding the rounded vs squared off end and polarity.?
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


----------



## nkramer

this is what it should be
 
courtesy of pinouts.ru
http://pinoutguide.com/Home/Tele35s_pinout.shtml

you can use your miltimeter to do a continuity test to see which is which on the other end


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 12, 2018)

khighly said:


> Ok so, final thoughts on the IT03 vs ZS5v1.
> 
> IT03 is better than the ZS5v1, however it's not by a huge margin. Both are using original ZST starlines as they provide the best seal with the IT03's and work just as good on the ZS5v1's.
> - IT03 is quite a bit brighter, reminding me of a ZS6 without the piercing highs. There's definitely a noticeable bump that can be overwhelming at times. Luckily like the ZS6's, you adjust fairly quickly.
> ...




I have to tell you, K, upon going over your impressions one more time I came away with the melancholy feeling that I should have purchased more than one ZS5(i) when I made my purchase. It's actually odd that I didn't order a back-up pair when I put my order through. I learned early on to buy at least two KZ's instead of one for at least two reasons. 

1) Replacing a pair could lead to a lengthy wait (slow boat from China).

2) KZ has a tendency to silently alter the sound in their best selling IEMs (ATE, ZS1, ZS3, ZS5, and ZS6), so if I want a backup of the original I best order it when it's available. The only time this wasn't the best decision was with the ED12, but I only spent $24 total on them, so....

I am hoping that KZ actually has retuned the ZS5(iii), but only time will tell. It's all speculation at this point, but I'll order another ZS5 in a few weeks just to be sure. Truth is even if they retuned a ZS5(iii) it won't sound the same as a ZS5(i) due to the use of a crossover this time.

This review/impression in particular has me revisiting what a gem the ZS5(i) is, particularly at it's sub-$40 price tag. 

.....but hey, if a ZS5(iii) exists, maybe it will be more refined than the original ZS5(i).

Maybe...
Maybe not...

Tic toc tic toc.......


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> I learned early on to buy at least two KZ's instead of one for at least two reasons...



The approach you describe is always what I try and stick to as well.

I usually buy the "backup" set when Gearbest rolls out the big coupon discounts (which can happen a few months later). That's how I got the ZS6 for $19.99, ZS5 for $12.99, EDR2 for $2.99, etc.

Having a backup pair is great for modding as well, so you can have a stock set to A/B.

It can bite you in the rear if a new IEM has a defect and is recalled or corrected. Then you get stuck with not 1 but 2 turds. Luckily, that doesn't happen that often.


----------



## Willber

DocHoliday said:


> I have to tell you, K, upon going over your impressions one more time I came away with the melancholy feeling that I should have purchased more than one ZS5(i) when I made my purchase.


Apologies if you have covered this, but have you tried the UiiSii CM5? I don't have the ZS5 (either one) but I find the CM5 to be more spacious and natural than the ZS6, with smoother highs without losing any detail. They are very cheap at the moment:

https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY

Also, some people on here found a code that reduces them to $8.99. That's a steal!


----------



## DocHoliday

Willber said:


> Apologies if you have covered this, but have you tried the UiiSii CM5? I don't have the ZS5 (either one) but I find the CM5 to be more spacious and natural than the ZS6, with smoother highs without losing any detail. They are very cheap at the moment:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY
> 
> Also, some people on here found a code that reduces them to $8.99. That's a steal!




Thanks for the heads-up. I was just preparing an Amazon order. I think I'll include the UiiSii CM5 as well if I can get one w/o a microphone. Unfortunately, they've sold out of the UiiSii Hi-805 that were  $5.99 for a while instead of the $30 everyone else was asking.


----------



## Willber

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. I was just preparing an Amazon order. I think I'll include the UiiSii CM5 as well if I can get one w/o a microphone.


I don't think they do one without a mic, but it is pretty small and light - I don't use it but neither do I notice it. If you need further endorsement of the CM5, ask @Slater, I think it was his recommendation that got me onto them.


----------



## Slater (Feb 13, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. I was just preparing an Amazon order. I think I'll include the UiiSii CM5 as well if I can get one w/o a microphone. Unfortunately, they've sold out of the UiiSii Hi-805 that were  $5.99 for a while instead of the $30 everyone else was asking.





Willber said:


> I don't think they do one without a mic, but it is pretty small and light - I don't use it but neither do I notice it. If you need further endorsement of the CM5, ask @Slater, I think it was his recommendation that got me onto them.



Yup, CM5 is 5/5 in my book. It has firmly reinforced my belief in the relevance of single dynamic driver IEMs in the vast sea of the "more BAs must be better" hybrid IEM market that we have nowadays.

But then again, hybrids sell. Look at KZ - everything they are making in 2018 is hybrid. Yet the CM5 proves that a single dynamic can still kick arse.

As far as the 805, you didn't really miss anything Doc. I didn't care for it and sent it back. If I had to get one UiiSii, it would be the CM5 (granted, I haven't heard nearly as many UiiSiis as @Vidal though).

But for the price it's a no-brainer. $11.99 right now, and the criminally-low $8.99 price it was on sale for just a few weeks ago. Let's just say I'm glad I have 2 pairs for when 1 dies


----------



## Willber

^
I agree 100% with all that.


----------



## Strat Rider

nkramer said:


> this is what it should be
> 
> courtesy of pinouts.ru
> http://pinoutguide.com/Home/Tele35s_pinout.shtml
> ...


Thank you much!


----------



## rayliam80

So after lurking for months on this thread, I just want to say thanks to all the regulars here. Since November, I've purchase the ZS6, ZST Pro, ZS3 and the ATE as well as the UiiSii CM5 recommended by Slater. I also saved a bit by resisting "upgrade" cables because of the fluctuations in resistance amongst all the cables as well as the green oxidation issue. 

Any ideas about these or something similiar? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...th-Or-Without-Mic-IEM-cables/32786849092.html 

I like the fact that these cables are listed in aliexpress under home > all categories > beauty & health > tools & accessories > toiletry kits


----------



## nkramer

shy of the pin spacing being .78mm instead of .75mm (KZ) should work fine. just don't try to switch back & forth between this & the KZ .75 cables. there have been other notes in this thread about using .78 cables, it's do-able, but will stretch out the connector some.

i picked up the smoke/grey KZ cable. http://a.co/d177iza (amazon)
       i also prefer the straight connector as they work with all models without modification (the angled connectors are larger & won't fit some models without modification) i posted pics of the differences a wile back in this thread.


----------



## nkramer

rayliam80 said:


> So after lurking for months on this thread, I just want to say thanks to all the regulars here. Since November, I've purchase the ZS6, ZST Pro, ZS3 and the ATE as well as the UiiSii CM5 recommended by Slater. I also saved a bit by resisting "upgrade" cables because of the fluctuations in resistance amongst all the cables as well as the green oxidation issue.
> 
> Any ideas about these or something similiar? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...th-Or-Without-Mic-IEM-cables/32786849092.html
> 
> I like the fact that these cables are listed in aliexpress under home > all categories > beauty & health > tools & accessories > toiletry kits



nice find. don't think i've seen a black one yet. looks like removing the memory wire would be hard to remove (if you're not a fan of the memory wires)


----------



## CoiL

rayliam80 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...th-Or-Without-Mic-IEM-cables/32786849092.html


That cable looks nice. @hakuzen should get it and measure it for us all ;P


----------



## DocHoliday

rayliam80 said:


> So after lurking for months on this thread, I just want to say thanks to all the regulars here. Since November, I've purchase the ZS6, ZST Pro, ZS3 and the ATE as well as the UiiSii CM5 recommended by Slater. I also saved a bit by resisting "upgrade" cables because of the fluctuations in resistance amongst all the cables as well as the green oxidation issue.
> 
> Any ideas about these or something similiar? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...th-Or-Without-Mic-IEM-cables/32786849092.html
> 
> I like the fact that these cables are listed in aliexpress under home > all categories > beauty & health > tools & accessories > toiletry kits




Be aware that those are .78mm and KZ uses .75mm.

I've not used .78mm on my KZ's yet, but you should still be aware of it. Besides, they look very  similar to the TRN cables which are .75mm  and cost less. 
I have the black and the white. It's a good cable.


----------



## rayliam80

DocHoliday said:


> Be aware that those are .78mm and KZ uses .75mm.
> 
> I've not used .78mm on my KZ's yet, but you should still be aware of it. Besides, they look very  similar to the TRN cables which are .75mm  and cost less.
> I have the black and the white. It's a good cable.



Thanks for the heads up. Any noticeable sound quality difference or just for comfort/fashion?


----------



## CoiL (Feb 13, 2018)

To those who got silver "upgrade" cable with angled 2-pin for ZST/ZS3, white rings jack and have measured it having imbalance and high impedance, then, cut off that crappy jack and replace with better like Neutrik NTP3RC-B (though this is almost same price as cable) for example and You get around *0.5 Ohm impedance for R/L/G* (multimeter leads resistance of 0.3Ohm already extracted), which is quite good and basically same as stock ZS5/ZS3 teal-color cable, just much more comfy and nicer looking. I also cut down 2-pin plastic "frame" around pins, so it fits my ZS5 like a glove.
Will post pic later.


----------



## mbwilson111

Willber said:


> I don't think they do one without a mic, but it is pretty small and light - I don't use it but neither do I notice it. If you need further endorsement of the CM5, ask @Slater, I think it was his recommendation that got me onto them.



The CM5 is great.  I bought mine way before most of the people here just because Amazon UK had a lightning deal and I was intrigued.  I only had a couple of other iems at the time.  I was afraid to post about them because I assumed I knew nothing and that my thoughts meant nothing.  Now I have learned to trust my ears.  I could have just stopped with the CM5 and been happy.   So why do I have so many other?  Because Headfi is bad!


----------



## ivo001

nkramer said:


> nice find. don't think i've seen a black one yet. looks like removing the memory wire would be hard to remove (if you're not a fan of the memory wires)



Pretty sure its the same as this cable on AliExpress. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...&terminal_id=ca265a0eed6f42ff9409333d0070a86e
Think it has been posted several times here already, I bought it 11 november.


----------



## Slater (Feb 13, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I was afraid to post about them because I assumed I knew nothing and that my thoughts meant nothing.  Now I have learned to trust my ears.



Your thoughts, input, experience, and questions are always valued and appreciated.

Don’t ever hesitate to share your feedback with the community


----------



## trumpethead

Willber said:


> Apologies if you have covered this, but have you tried the UiiSii CM5? I don't have the ZS5 (either one) but I find the CM5 to be more spacious and natural than the ZS6, with smoother highs without losing any detail. They are very cheap at the moment:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY
> 
> Also, some people on here found a code that reduces them to $8.99. That's a steal!



Yes, I bought 2 of the Cm5 from Amazon at the 8.99 price with the coupon and boy am I glad I did. I absolutely love my ZS5v1 and have no problems with high peaks nor sibilance however the Cm5 is equally good with a different sound Signature. Smooth yet somehow still detailed. Resolution is on par with the ZS5. Nothing in this price range beats the Zs5  in soundstage width but Cm5 soundstage is quite adequate. All told for 8.99 with free 2 day shipping the Cm5 currently stands as my deal of the year for 2018.If you can still get it do it...get two cuz you can only use the coupon on one order. I know I tried to order 2 more lol....Thanks Slater and the rest of you who recommended.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> I have to tell you, K, upon going over your impressions one more time I came away with the melancholy feeling that I should have purchased more than one ZS5(i) when I made my purchase. It's actually odd that I didn't order a back-up pair when I put my order through. I learned early on to buy at least two KZ's instead of one for at least two reasons.
> 
> 1) Replacing a pair could lead to a lengthy wait (slow boat from China).
> 
> ...



I might be persuaded to do an amicable trade with you for an original ZS5 and even let you pick between the blue or gray pairs


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 13, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Any noticeable sound quality difference or just for comfort/fashion?



The white TRN cable is still in it's original packaging and thus far the black TRN cable has only been coupled to the TRN you see in the first image, but in general I purchase upgrade cables for quality, comfort, decreased microphonics and aesthetics.

Hakuzen tested several of the cables (for resistance) that were designed for use with KZ in-ears, but you'll have to ferret that out unless someone else re-posts it here again. Typically, your choice of eartips and your choice of source will have a greater effect on sound shaping than IEM cables. Usually, if changing cables makes a difference there is something else in the equation that is causing it and you'd have to do your due diligence to figure out what it is. 

I ran into this with my ES3 a few pages back, but haven't had a chance to narrow it down yet.


DocHoliday said:


> The tri-braid upgrade cable made them a little brighter than the stock cables. I was literally surprised at the difference. They're warm and smooth with the stock cable, but with the tri-braids the mid-bass just seemed to drop and the upper midrange and lower treble moved forward. I've been used to the warmer presentation. Not sure if I like the brighter sound with the upgrades. I'll have to play with them for a few days.
> 
> Didn't expect this.
> 
> ...


 

*** EDIT *** 

I forgot that I saved Hakuzen's info:  

DC resistance of KZ cables (read by DMMs), in ohms (left, right, and ground).

zst/es3/zsr type (valid for zs3/5/6, sometimes plastic trimming suggested):

(31) kz plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings)......................0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40 
(31) 

 


(38) kz zst/es3(/zs5/zs6+trim) plated+metal plug+6cords...0.42/43/45/52/42/43 0.43/43/45/44/43/44 0.44/43/45/42/44/43

(38)



(06) kz es3 stock mic.........................................................0.66 0.66 0.66-68

(08) kz zsr stock mic..........................................................0.64 0.64 0.88

(32) kz plated (4cords,white rings,gearbest)................0.63/76 0.60/62 0.61/83

(02) kz zst stock mic..........................................................0.95 0.87 0.87

both types:

(34) zs3/zs6/zst/es3 colors(orange)...................................0.70 0.70 0.70

(35) zs3/zs6/zst/es3 colors(gray).......................................0.64 0.79 0.66

zs3/5/6 type:

(30) kz zs3/5/6 plated (4cords)..........................................0.67/70 0.67/70 0.67/70

(40) kz zs3/5/6 ofc plated (4cords,grey,&quot;new&quot;,thick coat)...0.69 0.70 0.68

(40)


 

(07) kz zs6 stock................................................................0.70 0.60 0.39

(04) kz zs5 stock................................................................0.66 0.63 0.38

(00) kz zs3 stock mic..........................................................0.84 0.84 0.84

(35) Grey 2-pin with translucent connectors 
(34) Orange 2-pin with translucent connectors

(42)




Sorry, I'll have to clarify this TRN cable's measurements.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> I might be persuaded to do an amicable trade with you for an original ZS5 and even let you pick between the blue or gray pairs



Wow, Pod! PM me with your thoughts and what you have in mind. Is there anything in particular you'd like to have?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I have my ZS6 and ZSR for a while now. Read through pages of discussion here made me grab the CM5 and HM7. Decided to give them some comparisons later but in the meantime, just for fun, I plug the ZS6 to my desktop chain with a balanced 3.5mm adapter to 4 pin XLR balanced (my ECP DSHA-0 only has 4 pins balanced output). To my surprise, this is the best combo I had so far with ZS6! I bet it will sound good but when I plug the other IEMs like ZSR, CM5, and HM7, the ZS6 is way superior to any of them. The lacking bass is now present with better bodies and well-controlled; the unnecessary treble went from nasty to amazing but not too warm. The separation and clarity are on par with my Westone 30. The sound fills your ear canal like full-size cans and it has more natural soundstage. No mod applied just a silver cable that has been used for couple months now.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 13, 2018)

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I have my ZS6 and ZSR for a while now. Read through pages of discussion here made me grab the CM5 and HM7. Decided to give them some comparisons later but in the meantime, just for fun, I plug the ZS6 to my desktop chain with a balanced 3.5mm adapter to 4 pin XLR balanced (my ECP DSHA-0 only has 4 pins balanced output). To my surprise, this is the best combo I had so far with ZS6! I bet it will sound good but when I plug the other IEMs like ZSR, CM5, and HM7, the ZS6 is way superior to any of them. The lacking bass is now present with better bodies and well-controlled; the unnecessary treble went from nasty to amazing but not too warm. The separation and clarity are on par with my Westone 30. The sound fills your ear canal like full-size cans and it has more natural soundstage. No mod applied just a silver cable that has been used for couple months now.




I still think the ZS6 was the best deal of 2017 for IEMs. Something to consider when the sub-$50 Knowledge Zenith ZS6 did well in comparisons with the likes of a $400 Westone UM30 and a $400 Noble Audio Trident, though it's all subjective.

It's food for thought but I don't mind saying the ZS6(i) is a great IEM, especially at under $50.

Westone UM30 


 

Noble Audio Trident 


 

KZ ZS6


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

DocHoliday said:


> I still think the ZS6 was the best deal of 2017 for IEMs. Something to consider when the sub-$50 Knowledge Zenith ZS6 did well in comparisons with the likes of a $400 Westone UM30 and a $400 Noble Audio Trident, though it's all subjective.
> 
> It's food for thought but I don't mind saying the ZS6(i) is a great IEM, especially at under $50.
> 
> ...



Definitely something worth to try. I love how the ZS6 sounds with my Pioneer XDP-100r but with SU1 > Holo Spring level 3 > ECP DSHA-0 > ZS6, it is on a different level. A straight WOW came out from my mouth when the music plays albeit a quite overkill setup for ZS6.


----------



## Podster

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Definitely something worth to try. I love how the ZS6 sounds with my Pioneer XDP-100r but with SU1 > Holo Spring level 3 > ECP DSHA-0 > ZS6, it is on a different level. A straight WOW came out from my mouth when the music plays albeit a quite overkill setup for ZS6.



ZS6 balanced out of my Opus # 1 is KA'z I only wish my Noble "X" sounded as good especially after shelling out more than 8 times what I got my ZS6's for ($28.99, first pair)! Of course it's subjective but I do know what my ears prefer and for sure my wallet


----------



## bsoplinger

trumpethead said:


> Yes, I bought 2 of the Cm5 from Amazon at the 8.99 price with the coupon and boy am I glad I did. I absolutely love my ZS5v1 and have no problems with high peaks nor sibilance however the Cm5 is equally good with a different sound Signature. Smooth yet somehow still detailed. Resolution is on par with the ZS5. Nothing in this price range beats the Zs5  in soundstage width but Cm5 soundstage is quite adequate. All told for 8.99 with free 2 day shipping the Cm5 currently stands as my deal of the year for 2018.If you can still get it do it...get two cuz you can only use the coupon on one order. I know I tried to order 2 more lol....Thanks Slater and the rest of you who recommended.


I don't believe that the $5 the $13.99 price is available anymore. However the Amazon link in what you quoted has them down to $11.99 with Prime shipping. 

Provided more as info for anyone else interested. I paid $16 for my single pair in the beginning of December and wasn't unhappy with them although I didn't think they sounded as good as you feel they did. Perhaps I'll revisit them now that I have a few styles of ear tips that work well for me. I'd definitely suggest them to folks in this thread.

Getting back to the thread's topic… Do we know if the new and approved, according to the Gearbest page, ZS6 is really any different than the original ones? For that matter new ZS5, again according to the images at Gearbest, do they actually exist?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Podster said:


> ZS6 balanced out of my Opus # 1 is KA'z I only wish my Noble "X" sounded as good especially after shelling out more than 8 times what I got my ZS6's for ($28.99, first pair)! Of course it's subjective but I do know what my ears prefer and for sure my wallet



My ZS6 takes most my IEM listening time replacing my Westone 30. Well, not that the Westone 30 is not good by any means but like you, I know what my ears prefer


----------



## DocHoliday

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Definitely something worth to try. I love how the ZS6 sounds with my Pioneer XDP-100r but with SU1 > Holo Spring level 3 > ECP DSHA-0 > ZS6, it is on a different level. A straight WOW came out from my mouth when the music plays albeit a quite overkill setup for ZS6.




The ZS6 is really a great piece of kit. Once again, KZ may have altered the sound signature slightly if they have in fact released a ZS6(ii). The only way to find out is to follow this thread because KZ always seem to remain silent on such things other than issuing new promotional images. 

Looking forward to the ZSR, though I don't expect it to surpass the ZS6. More importantly,  I wonder how Knowledge Zenith is planning on doing a one-up on the ZS6. Should be an interesting  year. 

If the global currency markets collapse in the next 90 days all bets are off for being able to obtain the newer models. Let's hope that instability doesn't seize up the marketplace.


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> ZS6 balanced out of my Opus # 1 is KA'z I only wish my Noble "X" sounded as good especially after shelling out more than 8 times what I got my ZS6's for ($28.99, first pair)! Of course it's subjective but I do know what my ears prefer and for sure my wallet


Are you saying that you feel like ZS6 sound better than the Noble X from Massdrop? I snagged a used pair on eBay for about half price and rather enjoy them. They actually fit better for me than the ZS6 which I think is the 2nd most problematic fitment issues IEM I have. The only thing worse was a pair of very low profile traditional kidney bean shape (like the KST) that has very short nozzles. Even going to triple flange tips barely gets me a seal. And these are IEMs that tons of folks love the fit they get. I'll insert the name if / when I remember


----------



## DocHoliday

bsoplinger said:


> I don't believe that the $5 the $13.99 price is available anymore. However the Amazon link in what you quoted has them down to $11.99 with Prime shipping.
> 
> Provided more as info for anyone else interested. I paid $16 for my single pair in the beginning of December and wasn't unhappy with them although I didn't think they sounded as good as you feel they did. Perhaps I'll revisit them now that I have a few styles of ear tips that work well for me. I'd definitely suggest them to folks in this thread.
> 
> Getting back to the thread's topic… Do we know if the new and approved, according to the Gearbest page, ZS6 is really any different than the original ones? For that matter new ZS5, again according to the images at Gearbest, do they actually exist?




Jury's still out on this, but the reports will come in soon enough.  In the meantime....


Spoiler



What else is KZ  up to?!?!


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> Are you saying that you feel like ZS6 sound better than the Noble X from Massdrop? I snagged a used pair on eBay for about half price and rather enjoy them. They actually fit better for me than the ZS6 which I think is the 2nd most problematic fitment issues IEM I have. The only thing worse was a pair of very low profile traditional kidney bean shape (like the KST) that has very short nozzles. Even going to triple flange tips barely gets me a seal. And these are IEMs that tons of folks love the fit they get. I'll insert the name if / when I remember



That is exactly what I'm saying and that is a direct comparison with my Opus # 1 which is by far my best DAP. I've played the "X"'s on everything I have and I've yet to be impressed especially for $249.00. My Trinity Icarus III and Master's leave the Nobles in the dust for my ears and for what I paid for them they don't even come close to my FLC8S, for that matter I much prefer my ASG Rockets. I prefer my Mee P1's to the Nobles but as with anything subjective YMMV.

@DocHoliday , I don't really have any measurement tools outside these old ears but my guess is KZ made the ZS6 V2 more efficient. They do sound louder than both my V1 Black and Red's however the SS is pretty much the same. If anything I'd like someone to test if the V2 is more efficient than the V1 model. Been going back and forth for two days with your cuts from page 1866 plus a bunch of my stuff and all I can tell is the V2 is louder out of all devices with same braided cable and starline tips.


----------



## stryed (Feb 13, 2018)

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I have my ZS6 and ZSR for a while now. Read through pages of discussion here made me grab the CM5 and HM7. Decided to give them some comparisons later but in the meantime, just for fun, I plug the ZS6 to my desktop chain with a balanced 3.5mm adapter to 4 pin XLR balanced (my ECP DSHA-0 only has 4 pins balanced output). To my surprise, this is the best combo I had so far with ZS6! I bet it will sound good but when I plug the other IEMs like ZSR, CM5, and HM7, the ZS6 is way superior to any of them. The lacking bass is now present with better bodies and well-controlled; the unnecessary treble went from nasty to amazing but not too warm. The separation and clarity are on par with my Westone 30. The sound fills your ear canal like full-size cans and it has more natural soundstage. No mod applied just a silver cable that has been used for couple months now.




Do you have a KZ5v2 or V1 for comparison? There's a nice deal of the red zs6 on Gearbest. Really enjoy my kz5 v2 but I've already lost a pair and am using my backup...

I also noted you had a modded takstar pro82, which mod is this? I just bought one that I'm offering as a bday gift today and wouldn't mind giving some tips ! Might also get one for myself one day hehehehe...


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

stryed said:


> Do you have a KZ5v2 or V1 for comparison? I also noted you had a modded takstar pro82, which mod is this? I just bought one that I'm offering as a bday gift today and wouldn't mind giving some tips ! Might also get one for myself one day hehehehe...



My housemates have the ZS5 (I believe it's V2) and tried them for an hour with my DAP. Amazing piece for its price but decided to get ZS6 instead. I might as well re-audition the ZS5 and see how they compare with my system. With the Pro 82, I use the tuning foam mod and put a rolled tissue paper in each cup to elevate the pad. Love the mod so far!


----------



## Duncan

So, I liked the ZS6 so much, that I bought a second pair, here in comes my predicament, and sorry if this has been discussed, but too many pages, anyhow, they seem to sound quite different, the newer ones sounding more immediate, slightly warmer (less treble), using same cables and same tips...

Could class it as expectation bias, but I had none, additionally, the rear of the boxes are different...

Left is first pairs box, right is second...  Question is, if there are different versions, which one is which (i.e. which is the newer production run), or if there isn't a newer version, is this a QC concern for new buyers)?


----------



## Podster (Feb 13, 2018)

The latest model only comes in Gray to the best of my knowledge and I hear what you hear a more immediate SS, the only think I see different on your boxes is the contact info. Everything else seems to be the same.

The Gray was a later release so I would think it was the latest run of them as well.


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## rayliam80

DocHoliday said:


> The ZS6 is really a great piece of kit. Once again, KZ may have altered the sound signature slightly if they have in fact released a ZS6(ii). The only way to find out is to follow this thread because KZ always seem to remain silent on such things other than issuing new promotional images.
> 
> Looking forward to the ZSR, though I don't expect it to surpass the ZS6. More importantly,  I wonder how Knowledge Zenith is planning on doing a one-up on the ZS6. Should be an interesting  year.
> 
> If the global currency markets collapse in the next 90 days all bets are off for being able to obtain the newer models. Let's hope that instability doesn't seize up the marketplace.



Wow those green shells look more enticing now. I was resisting buying a 2nd pair of ZS6s but...oh my...


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> That is exactly what I'm saying and that is a direct comparison with my Opus # 1 which is by far my best DAP. I've played the "X"'s on everything I have and I've yet to be impressed especially for $249.00. My Trinity Icarus III and Master's leave the Nobles in the dust for my ears and for what I paid for them they don't even come close to my FLC8S, for that matter I much prefer my ASG Rockets. I prefer my Mee P1's to the Nobles but as with anything subjective YMMV.
> 
> @DocHoliday , I don't really have any measurement tools outside these old ears but my guess is KZ made the ZS6 V2 more efficient. They do sound louder than both my V1 Black and Red's however the SS is pretty much the same. If anything I'd like someone to test if the V2 is more efficient than the V1 model. Been going back and forth for two days with your cuts from page 1866 plus a bunch of my stuff and all I can tell is the V2 is louder out of all devices with same braided cable and starline tips.



Thanks Pod, this is priceless information. That answers a ton of questions. Much appreciated! Good to know that the SS hasn't been ruined. For a little while I thought I'd have to stock up on the ZS6(i). It's good to know there is no change. Way to go KZ! If it ain't broken, don't fix it.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 13, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Wow those green shells look more enticing now. I was resisting buying a 2nd pair of ZS6s but...oh my...



They actually look even better up close and personal.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks Pod, this is priceless information. That answers a ton of questions. Much appreciated! Good to know that the SS hasn't been ruined. For a little while I thought I'd have to stock up on the ZS6(i). It's good to know there is no change. Way to go KZ! If it ain't broken, don't fix it.



So wait, the ZS6 hasn't been revised now? I thought people had decided KZ did revise it, since new marketing photos shows changes to the BA arrangement and configuration?


----------



## DocHoliday

Duncan said:


> So, I liked the ZS6 so much, that I bought a second pair, here in comes my predicament, and sorry if this has been discussed, but too many pages, anyhow, they seem to sound quite different, the newer ones sounding more immediate, slightly warmer (less treble), using same cables and same tips...
> 
> Could class it as expectation bias, but I had none, additionally, the rear of the boxes are different...
> 
> Left is first pairs box, right is second...  Question is, if there are different versions, which one is which (i.e. which is the newer production run), or if there isn't a newer version, is this a QC concern for new buyers)?




Didn't see this until after reading Pod's post.

My, my, my!  Looks like I'll be chomping at the bit until the Pewter ZS6 comes in. Sigh...


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> …  For a little while I thought I'd have to stock up on the ZS6(i). It's good to know there is no change. Way to go KZ! If it ain't broken, don't fix it.


Through a mixture of inattention and carelessness I have 2 unopened black ZS6 from the initial big discount Gearbest offered the first time. That's in addition to the opened red and black pairs. So if it turns out that there really is a mk2 of them and someone feels a need to have an older pair I'll be happy to arrange a deal for whomever wants. Right now they're just sitting in their boxes since I have no reason to open them. Of course that's in addition to the ZS5 mk2 that's unopened sitting right there next to them since I already have 2 of those opened too. Actually they're sitting on the unopened BossHifi B3 since I ended up buying a duplicate of that too. 

Good news, I thought I'd duplicated myself again when I got an ED9 and EDR2, think I got the model numbers right. They are practically identical in configuration, topology but they're obviously different sizes when compared. But I'd received them about a week apart from each other and it wasn't until I went to the burn-in pile to grab something to replace what I'd just finished with did I realize that they were different. 

I like both as a small discreet for napping or sleeping IEM that sounds decent.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> So wait, the ZS6 hasn't been revised now? I thought people had decided KZ did revise it, since new marketing photos shows changes to the BA arrangement and configuration?



Looks like more input and more testing is necessary. I may have read too much into Pod's comments. Apparently, I made a third-party comment (haven't received mine yet). I'll comment when mine arrives.


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> …Good to know that the SS hasn't been ruined. For a little while I thought I'd have to stock up on the ZS6(i). It's good to know there is no change. Way to go KZ! If it ain't broken, don't fix it.





Slater said:


> So wait, the ZS6 hasn't been revised now? I thought people had decided KZ did revise it, since new marketing photos shows changes to the BA arrangement and configuration?


Could the apparent increase in efficiency just be a subtly increased midrange due to a configuration change?


----------



## DocHoliday

bsoplinger said:


> Through a mixture of inattention and carelessness I have 2 unopened black ZS6 from the initial big discount Gearbest offered the first time. That's in addition to the opened red and black pairs. So if it turns out that there really is a mk2 of them and someone feels a need to have an older pair I'll be happy to arrange a deal for whomever wants. Right now they're just sitting in their boxes since I have no reason to open them. Of course that's in addition to the ZS5 mk2 that's unopened sitting right there next to them since I already have 2 of those opened too. Actually they're sitting on the unopened BossHifi B3 since I ended up buying a duplicate of that too.
> 
> Good news, I thought I'd duplicated myself again when I got an ED9 and EDR2, think I got the model numbers right. They are practically identical in configuration, topology but they're obviously different sizes when compared. But I'd received them about a week apart from each other and it wasn't until I went to the burn-in pile to grab something to replace what I'd just finished with did I realize that they were different.
> 
> I like both as a small discreet for napping or sleeping IEM that sounds decent.




I'll keep that in mind about the 2 black ZS6's. It's great that you got them at a good price, too. PM me with the price you're considering. I'm thinking about using them to do this with the Pewter ZS6 when it arrives so a black ZS6 at a good price may just be the answer.


----------



## stmiller

DocHoliday said:


> Be aware that those are .78mm and KZ uses .75mm.
> 
> I've not used .78mm on my KZ's yet, but you should still be aware of it. Besides, they look very  similar to the TRN cables which are .75mm  and cost less.
> I have the black and the white. It's a good cable.



Hi doc, 

Just received my white cable. After testing with ZS6, i made some observations.. 

1. The TRN cable seems to emphasise treble response significantly, hence creating a wider soundstage and micro detail retrieval is much more noticeable. 

2. It slightly reduces bass impact, more obvious in the midbass region and slightly less in subbass.

3. It doesn't come with the guide wire so thats a plus. 

The above are comparisons against the Ak Upgraded ZS5 Gold Plated Cable (image from fellow head-fier) which I've been using since i purchased my ZS6 about a month ago. 


 Where can i find the black colour?

Seems its sold out on Ali.


----------



## rayliam80

stmiller said:


> Hi doc,
> 
> Just received my white cable. After testing with ZS6, i made some observations..
> 
> ...



I'm also thinking of buying the TRN Silver cable when everyone on Aliexpress comes back from CNY vacation. The black is available from banned seller when I checked last night.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks Pod, this is priceless information. That answers a ton of questions. Much appreciated! Good to know that the SS hasn't been ruined. For a little while I thought I'd have to stock up on the ZS6(i). It's good to know there is no change. Way to go KZ! If it ain't broken, don't fix it.



The ZS6 has more impactful bass but it does seem to have more energy overall and looking at the specs on yhe boxes nothing is different but you can tell they have more bass right out the box. 

Sent you a pm and you can ignore all thise links if you have something already just let me know.

Cheers


----------



## VinceHill24

I had asked KZ on qq last week about ZS6 v2 changes and they denied that there has been any changes. I think if what they claim is true then the difference ppl hear is either some placebo effect or inconsistent QC. Maybe they've switched up the BA driver without letting us know too ? We won't know anyway if they do... maybe some brave souls here can help verify it ? lol

And just to give a little insight, i thought KZ make their own BA driver or has been using some custom made BA driver manufactured exclusively for them all these while, turned out i was wrong when 1 of my ZST decided to fail and when i dissect it just for the sake of fun, the BA has a clear Bellsing logo on it. At this point i can almost confirm all those China brand iems with BA driver most of them surely comes from Bellsing. The ZST was quite some time back tho, probably 6 or 8 months back i can't remember.


----------



## stmiller

rayliam80 said:


> I'm also thinking of buying the TRN Silver cable when everyone on Aliexpress comes back from CNY vacation. The black is available from banned seller when I checked last night.



Good luck then.. as for me its back to my ak upgraded cable (without guide wires)


----------



## DocHoliday

stmiller said:


> Hi doc,
> 
> Just received my white cable. After testing with ZS6, i made some observations..
> 
> ...




I think it's best to wait until the whole country gets back to work in late February,  then everything should be restocked and ready to go.

Thanks for the impressions about the cable pairing. 

I've considered getting that orange cable, but in yellow and in grey. Is it a good and durable cable and has there been any discoloration since new?


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> The ZS6 has more impactful bass but it does seem to have more energy overall and looking at the specs on yhe boxes nothing is different but you can tell they have more bass right out the box.
> 
> Sent you a pm and you can ignore all thise links if you have something already just let me know.
> 
> Cheers



I wonder if the slight bass increase is a result of using one midrange BA + one treble BA instead of two treble BAs. Not sure if that's the case but psycho-acoustics may play a part. The connection between the ears and the brain are far more advanced than we give credit for. 

Proof, you all say? Give us proof!

Vertigo!


----------



## CoiL

CoiL said:


> To those who got silver "upgrade" cable with angled 2-pin for ZST/ZS3, white rings jack and have measured it having imbalance and high impedance, then, cut off that crappy jack and replace with better like Neutrik NTP3RC-B (though this is almost same price as cable) for example and You get around *0.5 Ohm impedance for R/L/G* (multimeter leads resistance of 0.3Ohm already extracted), which is quite good and basically same as stock ZS5/ZS3 teal-color cable, just much more comfy and nicer looking. I also cut down 2-pin plastic "frame" around pins, so it fits my ZS5 like a glove.
> Will post pic later.


Here is crappy smartphone pic:


----------



## stmiller

DocHoliday said:


> I think it's best to wait until the whole country gets back to work in late February,  then everything should be restocked and ready to go.
> 
> Thanks for the impressions about the cable pairing.
> 
> I've considered getting that orange cable, but in yellow and in grey. Is it a good and durable cable and has there been any discoloration since new?



I just used that image for illustration purposes. 

I have the grey, so no info on discolouration. 

However this is a durable cable. Only irritation is the guide wire.


----------



## jaydm99

So I lost the steel mesh on the left piece of my ZS5  Anyone knows what's the appropriate size for the ZS5? And is it the same size as the ZS3?


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> Here is crappy smartphone pic…


That's a decent looking connector. Sometimes the ones that have good conductivity look awful or cheap and the other way around too. Really nice looking jacks have awful. I ended up getting a few different straight 2.5mm TRRS to make my own balanced cables from the nicer braided silver ones since even adding in the cost of 2 jacks per cable was about $10 less than the most inexpensive pre-made ones and those didn't have as nice a cable in my opinion.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> I wonder if the slight bass increase is a result of using one midrange BA + one treble BA instead of two treble BAs. Not sure if that's the case but psycho-acoustics may play a part. The connection between the ears and the brain are far more advanced than we give credit for.
> 
> Proof, you all say? Give us proof!
> 
> Vertigo!



Good question, has it been proven/verified that the two BA's are dufferent in the ZS6V2? 

If it really is a Mid BA I'm amazed at just how much it increases the bass presence in the V2 but something has given them a more immediate in yo face presentation! On some, actually very few cuts it's almost too much but with that said I'm also think the cut has been engineered to have more bass.


----------



## Slater (Feb 14, 2018)

Jay Magaling said:


> So I lost the steel mesh on the left piece of my ZS5  Anyone knows what's the appropriate size for the ZS5? And is it the same size as the ZS3?



The issue with the ZS5 is that the nozzle mesh is glued into place, vs the peel and stick adhesive ring on the nozzle mesh like most IEMs.

Are you planning on glueing the mesh in place? If so, don't use superglue. Use microdrops of fast dry epoxy (applied with a sewing needle) or a few drops of Laser Bond UV glue (applied to the outside seam between the mesh and the outside edge of the nozzle are). Drops at 12 o clock, 3, 6, and 9 should be all that's needed.

On a related topic, it looks like the bass vents are coated/clogged with black paint. You can especially see it on the left IEM (the one with the missing mesh). Although it could be the lighting in the photo.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Good question, has it been proven/verified that the two BA's are dufferent in the ZS6V2?
> 
> If it really is a Mid BA I'm amazed at just how much it increases the bass presence in the V2 but something has given them a more immediate in yo face presentation! On some, actually very few cuts it's almost too much but with that said I'm also think the cut has been engineered to have more bass.




Only indication is KZ  going from this



 

To this:.


----------



## Podster

Yes, i knew the new schematic shows it but was wondering if any of the Modders (not mentioning any names unless COIL is a name, jk bub). Had actually torn one down and verified. I find it strange that they changed out one of the high BA for a Mid BA and specs remain the same across the board or like one the back of the box!


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> Yes, i knew the new schematic shows it but was wondering if any of the Modders (not mentioning any names unless COIL is a name, jk bub). Had actually torn one down and verified. I find it strange that they changed out one of the high BA for a Mid BA and specs remain the same across the board or like one the back of the box!


I finally had a chance to open my New Z6's up (Grey). The DD's are exactly as shown in diagram, there is what looks like a crossover network atop the larger driver. I haven't had the time to take the grill off yet so I can't say anything about the BA's. But they definitely sound different then my older ones.Sorry no pictures, haven't had time.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 14, 2018)

Podster said:


> Yes, i knew the new schematic shows it but was wondering if any of the Modders (not mentioning any names unless COIL is a name, jk bub). Had actually torn one down and verified. I find it strange that they changed out one of the high BA for a Mid BA and specs remain the same across the board or like one the back of the box!




It is an oddity. As far as I can make out KZ did one of two things:

1) The original image was not specific enough and they updated it to reflect more accurate specifications.

or 

2) They actually adjusted the BA make up and/or bass response  (I'm assuming they did so in order to go head to head with the 1More Quad-driver. Some have commented that the ZS6 is slightly less refined than the 1More Quad, so maybe this was KZ's way of addressing that).

Just a thought.

I do remember, after my original post about this subject, that someone else posted that there are actually now two different models of BAs in the nozzle now. The 30995 for the treble and another model for the midrange. I'll look for that post and add it here if I find it.

*** UPDATE ***

My mistake. The post I referred to was actually a post about the ZS5. Oddly enough though, this image does show that KZ does in fact utilize two different BAs.


----------



## trumpethead

bsoplinger said:


> I don't believe that the $5 the $13.99 price is available anymore. However the Amazon link in what you quoted has them down to $11.99 with Prime shipping.
> 
> Provided more as info for anyone else interested. I paid $16 for my single pair in the beginning of December and wasn't unhappy with them although I didn't think they sounded as good as you feel they did. Perhaps I'll revisit them now that I have a few styles of ear tips that work well for me. I'd definitely suggest them to folks in this thread.
> 
> Getting back to the thread's topic… Do we know if the new and approved, according to the Gearbest page, ZS6 is really any different than the original ones? For that matter new ZS5, again according to the images at Gearbest, do they actually exist?



They were 8.99 each with the coupon...and yes of course ymmv.


bsoplinger said:


> I don't believe that the $5 the $13.99 price is available anymore. However the Amazon link in what you quoted has them down to $11.99 with Prime shipping.
> 
> Provided more as info for anyone else interested. I paid $16 for my single pair in the beginning of December and wasn't unhappy with them although I didn't think they sounded as good as you feel they did. Perhaps I'll revisit them now that I have a few styles of ear tips that work well for me. I'd definitely suggest them to folks in this thread.
> 
> Getting back to the thread's topic… Do we know if the new and approved, according to the Gearbest page, ZS6 is really any different than the original ones? For that matter new ZS5, again according to the images at Gearbest, do they actually exist?



I paid 8.99 each with the coupon. And yes of course ymmv.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 14, 2018)

Lord Rexter said:


> Test completed here's what I have uncovered on the Grey one (to my ears):
> 1. The bass is little bit stronger
> 2. The sound stage was a little wider
> 3. The bass is bleeding into the mids, but not too much though
> ...




Thanks for the ZS6 impression. 

Question: 
Do you prefer the sound of your X5ii over the X5iii? I don't necessarily need an android based DAP and prefer the old skool set-up. What are your thoughts on the X5ii? I hear that it's more accurate/less colored.


----------



## trumpethead

bsoplinger said:


> Through a mixture of inattention and carelessness I have 2 unopened black ZS6 from the initial big discount Gearbest offered the first time. That's in addition to the opened red and black pairs. So if it turns out that there really is a mk2 of them and someone feels a need to have an older pair I'll be happy to arrange a deal for whomever wants. Right now they're just sitting in their boxes since I have no reason to open them. Of course that's in addition to the ZS5 mk2 that's unopened sitting right there next to them since I already have 2 of those opened too. Actually they're sitting on the unopened BossHifi B3 since I ended up buying a duplicate of that too.
> 
> Good news, I thought I'd duplicated myself again when I got an ED9 and EDR2, think I got the model numbers right. They are practically identical in configuration, topology but they're obviously different sizes when compared. But I'd received them about a week apart from each other and it wasn't until I went to the burn-in pile to grab something to replace what I'd just finished with did I realize that they were different.
> 
> I like both as a small discreet for napping or sleeping IEM that sounds decent.



I might be interested in 1 Black ZS6 and also the Boss B3..can you pm me some pricing..I'm on Ct so shipping sb minimal.Thanks


----------



## Slater

mrmoto050 said:


> I finally had a chance to open my New Z6's up (Grey). The DD's are exactly as shown in diagram, there is what looks like a crossover network atop the larger driver. I haven't had the time to take the grill off yet so I can't say anything about the BA's. But they definitely sound different then my older ones.Sorry no pictures, haven't had time.



What you describe is the typical ZS6 layout.

To put this to rest, someone is going to need to physically remove both BA drivers and tell us the part numbers on the body.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Since I have two defective pairs of KZ ZS3 lying with me (right side silent in both), I wanted to know whether I can take out the drivers & everything from the left side shell and put them in the right side shell and have at least one working pair? Will it even work properly? Thanks!


----------



## Lord Rexter

DocHoliday said:


> T banks for the ZS6 impression.
> 
> Question:
> Do you prefer the sound of your X5ii over the X5iii? I don't necessarily need an android based DAP and prefer the old skool set-up. What are your thoughts on the X5ii? I hear that it's more accurate/less colored.


Well Doc, to answer your question I prefer FiiO X5 3rd love the balanced output with Turbo mode enabled, but FiiO X5 2nd is more aggressive and in few tracks has better detail retrieval (to my ears) works good other IEMs which are not as sibilant as KZ ZS6 or ZS5 v2. I feel FiiO X5 3rd Gen is a little smooth and allow longer listening pleasure with ZS6 and ZS5.


----------



## Makahl

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Since I have two defective pairs of KZ ZS3 lying with me (right side silent in both), I wanted to know whether I can take out the drivers & everything from the left side shell and put them in the right side shell and have at least one working pair? Will it even work properly? Thanks!



Definitely would work well. I'd just want to make sure to don't put much stress to remove the driver, otherwise, it can damage the driver too. Since you're gonna open it I'd recommend you to replace the stock heat-shrink tubing to a PVC tube normally used for CIEMs. Maybe @CoiL can help you since he has reported about how crap is the construction of the stock tube, lol.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 14, 2018)

Lord Rexter said:


> Well Doc, to answer your question I prefer FiiO X5 3rd love the balanced output with Turbo mode enabled, but FiiO X5 2nd is more aggressive and in few tracks has better detail retrieval (to my ears) works good other IEMs which are not as sibilant as KZ ZS6 or ZS5 v2. I feel FiiO X5 3rd Gen is a little smooth and allow longer listening pleasure with ZS6 and ZS5.



Thanks. Precisely what I wanted to know. I think I'll go with the X5ii because my Fiio X3i is reportedly already smoother than the X5ii. That bit of extra detail retrieval sounds like what I am looking for.

Only $300


----------



## Slater

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Since I have two defective pairs of KZ ZS3 lying with me (right side silent in both), I wanted to know whether I can take out the drivers & everything from the left side shell and put them in the right side shell and have at least one working pair? Will it even work properly? Thanks!



Sure, totally doable.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks. Precisely what I wanted to know. I think I'll go with the X5ii because my Fiio X3i is reportedly already smoother than the X5ii. That bit of extra detail retrieval sounds like what I am looking for.
> 
> Only $300



Woot Woot, let's hear it for the X3i



 

Carbanara Baby


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 14, 2018)

Podster said:


> Woot Woot, let's hear it for the X3i
> 
> 
> 
> Carbanara Baby



I hear that your X3ii is very, very close in sound to the X5ii.

I considered picking up that X3ii many many times. Many...
I went back and forth, but then the X5ii came out, then the X7i,  then the Onkyo and the Pioneer, then the Cowon Plenue D, then...........

It just kept going and going so, lost in a sea of "what if that's better than the other" I just postponed things until I came across one that I just had to have. Truth is, I just should have gone with my original choice because the sound signature is supposed to be exceptionally flat and clean. 18 months to make a decision. 

Pitiful.....just pitiful.

Fiio X3i:
Fiio X3(i)
Output impedance - 0.3 Ω（32Ω)
Output power - 540 mW (16 Ω/THD+N＜1%)
Wolfson DAC (smooth and detailed)


----------



## Saoshyant

I don't honestly remember if I still own an X5i


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 14, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Here is crappy smartphone pic:


that jack sounds familiar to me..

(my last surviving ER-6i, after plug replacement and creation of some kind of strain reliefs and chin slider using silicone tubes..)



Jay Magaling said:


> So I lost the steel mesh on the left piece of my ZS5  Anyone knows what's the appropriate size for the ZS5? And is it the same size as the ZS3?


nozzle of ZS3: 5mm; mesh: 4-4.3mm (4 is a bit loose, but works; 4.3mm is a bit tight, but also works); tried both,
nozzle of ZS5: 5.3-5.4mm; mesh: 4.3-4.7mm (4.3mm, loose;4.7,tight). not tried,
Edit: corrected meshes sizes


----------



## Podster (Feb 14, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I hear that your X3ii is very, very close in sound to the X5ii.
> 
> I considered picking up that X3ii many many times. Many...
> I went back and forth, but then the X5ii came out, then the X7i,  then the Onkyo and the Pioneer, then the Cowon Plenue D, then...........
> ...



Oh, I just thought that was the original X3. Guess some call it the i version and mine is the ii version, it was my first serious DAP and I got the FiiO $159 special on it as a friend let me use his original receipt from his 3i to get the discount. Been a great DAP and really love it with the Topping NX2 attached Nothing wrong with taking your time I ended up getting a C3 (which you know I have my Topping NX1S strapped to and love), Cayin N3, Shanling M2/M5 (another give away), multiple iDevices as well as multiple budget DAP's like Benjie S5/T6-9, Mrobo and then my Crown Jewel the Opus #1 (but compared to some of those guys in the portable rig thread nothing spectacular) Better mention my Nut Job (Walnuts) which is still my most analog sounding rig I own





I'm so Jelli @hakuzen , my 6i's died (cable years ago and it was before I knew anyone who could fix them and dare I say I tossed them one night) Go ahead and pull the trigger I've wanted to many times! Them's were the old skool days when I had those and my EB5i's for bass punching, come to think of it they both died the cable death


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Makahl said:


> Definitely would work well. I'd just want to make sure to don't put much stress to remove the driver, otherwise, it can damage the driver too. Since you're gonna open it I'd recommend you to replace the stock heat-shrink tubing to a PVC tube normally used for CIEMs. Maybe @CoiL can help you since he has reported about how crap is the construction of the stock tube, lol.



That helps. Will see what I can do with them. Thanks!


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Slater said:


> Sure, totally doable.


That's great. Thanks!


----------



## sence (Feb 14, 2018)

I was on zs3 and all of a sudden Left side died on me.







Though touching near the connector bringing back the sound for a bit. So I figured it was just the cable,as I took out that memory wire right away when I received it.  Tried cable from zs6 and still no change. ZS3's cable is working just fine on zs6.

Bought from gearbest on 24th december, along with ZS1,ZS6,ATE,ATE-S. Got it delivered on 1st january like a new  year gift. Since I like punchy bass, all these KZs didn't quench my thirst. After about 20hrs on each of these KZs, I went back to my good old skullcandy titans (Meaning I am not an audiophile but love heavy hitting bass). I was impressed with the isolation and fit of zs3. So I used it now & then and today it just took its last breath, making me another proud owner of bad ZS3 batch.


----------



## Slater

sence said:


> I was on zs3 and all of a sudden Left side died on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the update friend. I added you to the ever-growing list (now up to 14 known cases): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feb...nuforce-be-sport.832367/page-75#post-13961425


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

sence said:


> I was on zs3 and all of a sudden Left side died on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Oh, I just thought that was the original X3. Guess some call it the i version and mine is the ii version, it was my first serious DAP and I got the FiiO $159 special on it as a friend let me use his original receipt from his 3i to get the discount. Been a great DAP and really love it with the Topping NX2 attached Nothing wrong with taking your time I ended up getting a C3 (which you know I have my Topping NX1S strapped to and love), Cayin N3, Shanling M2/M5 (another give away), multiple iDevices as well as multiple budget DAP's like Benjie S5/T6-9, Mrobo and then my Crown Jewel the Opus #1 (but compared to some of those guys in the portable rig thread nothing spectacular) Better mention my Nut Job (Walnuts) which is still my most analog sounding rig I own
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so Jelli @hakuzen , my 6i's died (cable years ago and it was before I knew anyone who could fix them and dare I say I tossed them one night) Go ahead and pull the trigger I've wanted to many times! Them's were the old skool days when I had those and my EB5i's for bass punching, come to think of it they both died the cable death




That Walnut seems to have piqued my interest the most, but those LZ A4's seem to be one of the few IEMs (that I've come across) that haven't lost their sizzle. After three months or so the honeymoon period is over for most IEMs, but the LZ A4 seem to have retained their original luster. Perfect choice for a cable as well.


----------



## Willber (Feb 14, 2018)

Slater said:


> Thanks for the update friend. I added you to the ever-growing list (now up to 14 known cases): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feb...nuforce-be-sport.832367/page-75#post-13961425


I didn't know you were compiling a list - you can add me if you like.

Two ZS3 bought from Gearbest:
August 2016 - Original (non-shiny) ZS3 arrived with faulty left speaker. Full refund from GB.
October 2017 - Later (shiny) ZS3 arrived working. Left speaker developed fault in two months. Not reported to GB.


----------



## jaydm99 (Feb 14, 2018)

Slater said:


> The issue with the ZS5 is that the nozzle mesh is glued into place, vs the peel and stick adhesive ring on the nozzle mesh like most IEMs.
> 
> Are you planning on glueing the mesh in place? If so, don't use superglue. Use microdrops of fast dry epoxy (applied with a sewing needle) or a few drops of Laser Bond UV glue (applied to the outside seam between the mesh and the outside edge of the nozzle are). Drops at 12 o clock, 3, 6, and 9 should be all that's needed.
> 
> On a related topic, it looks like the bass vents are coated/clogged with black paint. You can especially see it on the left IEM (the one with the missing mesh). Although it could be the lighting in the photo.


It's not clogged. I already removed it few days after painting it. I know this because I have experienced driver flex on them (which doesn't happen on the ZS5).


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> It's not clogged. I already removed it few days after painting it. I know this because I have experienced driver flex on them (which doesn't happen on the ZS5).



Gotcha - makes perfect sense that could cause driver flex. Glad you got it all sorted out.


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> Gotcha - makes perfect sense that could cause driver flex. Glad you got it all sorted out.


So the nozzle mesh can be the cause of driver flex?


----------



## jaydm99 (Feb 15, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> So the nozzle mesh can be the cause of driver flex?


No. The driver flex was caused by the clogged vent holes. Which greatly improved the bass on the ZS5. Lol. But I still ended up de-clogging it cause that flex is annoying.


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> So the nozzle mesh can be the cause of driver flex?



No, what we’re referring to is the tiny round vent hole on the body of the ZS5 right NEXT to the nozzle. His was “black”, which indicated it was clogged with paint. The stock vent hole is “white”, because it is covered with paper filter material from the inside (this is the white you see from the outside).

This type of vent hole is almost always near or in front of the “bass” dynamic driver, and is generally used for tuning the amount of sub bass and bass in an IEM. In general, the larger the vent hole, the less sub bass and bass there is. The smaller the vent hole, the more sub bass and bass there is. This is why the ZS6 has more bass than the ZS5 - I’ve posted a comparison photo before showing how bass vent hole is 50% smaller on the ZS6 (and thus has more bass than the ZS5). If you search this thread you’ll find the photo I posted (or I’ll update this post tonight when I get home).

This vent hole also usually has an effect on driver flex. What happens is that when you push an IEM and create a seal, the air that’s in your ear canal needs to go somewhere. This created pressure buildup, that pushes against the delicate diaphragm of the dynamic driver, (causing the telltale sign of driver flex “crinkling/crunching”). If there is a vent hole in the body of the IEM somewhere above the dynamic driver’s diaphragm, the air has somewhere to escape. If this vent hole is too small, clogged with glue or paint, or is missing altogether, driver flex will often result.

Sometimes these vent holes are on the side of the nozzle too - anywhere in the volume of space between the top of the dynamic driver’s diaphragm and the nozzle opening.

Obviously, there are other IEM design considerations that have an effect on sub bass, bass, and driver flex, so what I describe above is general and doesn’t universally pertain to every IEM.


----------



## Pruikki

Hello all!

About the Zs6....

Can anyone tell me about it? i  have ZSR now, it is amazing (vs ES3 and other KZ:s below it)

so the ZS6 is worth getting too? any difference? more clear or something? i really like the zsr,Sounds about right.

So is the Zs6 better overall or just something? anyone?


Thank you all for advises!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Pruikki said:


> Hello all!
> 
> About the Zs6....
> 
> ...



Imo the ZS6 is a side grade. You trade sound stage, mid-range warmth/thickness, and a bit of overall coherence for improved layering, separation, imaging and more detail. ZS6 is a fair bit brighter too. I like them both quite a bit. My preference leans to the ZSR. Sounds a bit more mature and refined in it's tuning.


----------



## Daniel Gur

Well, after finding my ZS6's The stock cable is finally died (hurts like a bitch). I need a "premium" cable for the ZS6's preferably not a 30$ one, something cheap will be good. if anyone can drop links would be appreciated.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 15, 2018)

Jay Magaling said:


> That's a decent looking connector. Sometimes the ones that have good conductivity look awful or cheap and the other way around too. Really nice looking jacks have awful.





hakuzen said:


> that jack sounds familiar to me..


Yeah, this jack is best 90-degree one I know and highest quality I have seen. But damn it`s expensive compared to finished cables.
Lumberg nickel/chrome jacks are also very good (at half of price) but little bulky and doesn`t have 90`one.



Jay Magaling said:


> No. The driver flex was caused by the clogged vent holes. Which greatly improved the bass on the ZS5. Lol. But I still ended up de-clogging it cause that flex is annoying.


If You liked the sound, then I recommend to use extra filtering on those ports. Next time I recommend to cover holes when painting  It can mess up drivers or sound.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Feb 15, 2018)

Pruikki said:


> Hello all!
> 
> About the Zs6....
> 
> ...



I received my red ZS6 yersteday, I do hear immediatly how great it is (without any burn in).
I use a stock cable without mic for ZS3, odered on ebay L-R=0.6 G=0.8 ohms
(I have the KZ silver plated cable, L-R-G=0.4 but the trebles do not need to shine more)

On my dap with CS4398 dac, for me the sound is better than the excellent ZSR I have too.
First, the voices are not recessed at all, (voices are slightly distant on the ZSR)  then the trebles are not agressive on my ZSR, but they are softer on my ZS6 (did I received the "ZS6-ll" ? as I have the "new box" on the right, see above p.1876)
I like the bass, they don't show off, they go strong and deep when needed, a bit different than on the ZSR.
There is a lot of differences off character of the sound, if you have good electronics.
I believe that with this level of quality, the player counts a lot.
Then yes, it looks very beautifull, but cause it is made off anodized aluminium, the color is a fragile layer, you have to care not to scratch it one on the other, or with any metalic object like the player or a metalic plug. I will carry outside rather the ZSR that is made off plastic.


----------



## Slater (Feb 15, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Imo the ZS6 is a side grade. You trade sound stage, mid-range warmth/thickness, and a bit of overall coherence for improved layering, separation, imaging and more detail. ZS6 is a fair bit brighter too. I like them both quite a bit. My preference leans to the ZSR. Sounds a bit more mature and refined in it's tuning.



Yeah, I agree. If I had a choice between the ZS6 and th ZSR, and I could only pick 1, it would be the ZSR.

It’s the most “pleasing” to the majority of people (of the ZS6 vs ZSR), and does very little wrong.

The ZS6 isn’t for everyone. The build quality is amazing though. I wish KZ had spent a little longer flushing out and tuning the ZS6. For example, if they had used only 1 BA instead of 2, and the one they did use was the “normal” BA driver instead of the “ultra-high frequency” BA driver, I think the ZS6 would be near perfection (relatively speaking).


----------



## jeromeaparis (Feb 15, 2018)

Daniel Gur said:


> Well, after finding my ZS6's The stock cable is finally died (hurts like a bitch). I need a "premium" cable for the ZS6's preferably not a 30$ one, something cheap will be good. if anyone can drop links would be appreciated.



I baught this one (no mic) for my ZS6 for 3$  It is stock cable for ZS3
The sound is so good that I believe it may fit better than a silver plated on the ZS6
Allthough I do own a KZ silver cable.

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/KZ-ZS3-Cable-2pin-0-75-mm-1-2M-Upgraded-Silver-Plated-Cable-Earphone-Replacement/292319712638?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=591216727563&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Latest KZ silver plated, bronze color 6$

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_1573088.html

Best luxury cable "TRN V10" for 9$
(if you are not afraid to scratch your ZS6 with the metal parts, and to get more brillant trebles with the silver plating)

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Nouv...html?spm=2114.11010108.01008.1.650c649btaCPak


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Yeah, I agree. If I had a choice between the ZS6 and th ZSR, and I could only pick 1, it would be the ZSR.
> 
> It’s the most “pleasing” to the majority of people, and does very little wrong.
> 
> The ZS6 isn’t for everyone. The build quality is amazing though. I wish KZ had spent a little longer flushing out and tuning the ZS6. For example, *if they had used only 1 BA instead of 2*, and the one they did use was the “normal” BA driver instead of the “ultra-high frequency” BA driver, I think the ZS6 would be near perfection (relatively speaking).



I partly agree there. I worry the ZS6 would lose some if it's above-average technical ability by dropping one of the BAs. Not a hard and fast rule, but I have been finding that multi-driver earphones *usually* offer more impressive layering, separation, and imaging qualities, such as Brainwavz's B400. It's far from the most expensive iem in my portfolio, but nothing I've got can touch it in those areas.


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> Imo the ZS6 is a side grade. You trade sound stage, mid-range warmth/thickness, and a bit of overall coherence for improved layering, separation, imaging and more detail. ZS6 is a fair bit brighter too. I like them both quite a bit. My preference leans to the ZSR. Sounds a bit more mature and refined in it's tuning.




Wow, B9! Sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to getting mine and wish KZ would hurry up and release the other two colors (red & white) they promised.



Pruikki said:


> Hello all!
> 
> About the Zs6....
> 
> ...



You mentioned "I have ZSR now, it is amazing (vs ES3.. "

Would you mind elaborating? I have the ES3 and think it's a great KZ. What is it about the ZSR that puts it above the ES3? 

With your comments and B9's comments (above) I feel like a crack addict.

I need.......I need. ...I neeeeed!

Thanks


----------



## Podster

@Daniel Gur , the $6 Bronze one from GB would be my first choice



 

Now you went and dunnit @B9Scrambler , Blk ZSR's in the basket 

@DocHoliday , the Walnuts are truly some of the best $60 I've spent on this hobby to date. As mentioned before the closest analog sounding digital I've ever heard


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 15, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I worry the ZS6 would lose some if it's above-average technical ability by dropping one of the BAs. Not a hard and fast rule, but I have been finding that multi-driver earphones *usually* offer more impressive layering, separation, and imaging qualities, such as Brainwavz's B400.




100% agree. Last night I compared half a dozen IEMs, but when I got to the ZS6 I just couldn't stop grinning (involuntarily) because everything was just....right there. The layering, separation and imaging just puts it over the top because it's so engaging. 

I know the ZSR housing with it's bulbous faceplate is going to have an impressive soundstage but I can't wait to hear the overall presentation. Just like the ZS6, I'll have to have one in every color offered. 

Like I said..... CRACK!!!

My poor wallet. ...


----------



## WalterTorino (Feb 15, 2018)

*** it, I love my zs6 as they are. Now I have all the kinds of headphones that i need 

And 4 sure I'm waiting for something new from KZ.

(Kinera Bd005, BlitzWolf bw-es2 if anybody interested)


----------



## Slater (Feb 15, 2018)

Podster said:


> ...the Walnuts are truly some of the best $60 I've spent on this hobby to date. As mentioned before the closest analog sounding digital I've ever heard.



Walnuts?


----------



## Wiljen

I am really liking the Burson v5i in the Walnut F1 - only drawback, the battery wont fit in the box anymore as the v5i is considerably taller than the standard opamp.  Sound is worth the hassle though for sure.  I should have review notes posted next week on it.


----------



## Podster (Feb 15, 2018)

Slater said:


> Walnuts?



OK, my Nutz

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32727723202.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Z0NkmL

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32826447683.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.UU5HcZ

Darth Maul Mode





@DocHoliday , don't know what's up with that red and white ZSR photo but the orientation looks all off for the right unless the picture is reversed. The Right also looks to be upside down?


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> OK, my Nutz
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32727723202.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Z0NkmL
> 
> ...



Yeah, I pulled it from KZ's pre-release promotional imagery. I'm hoping they look better in the flesh.


----------



## Wiljen

Not much, they are pretty pedestrian when it comes to looks and controls, but for sound they are hard to beat.


----------



## Strat Rider (Feb 15, 2018)

Podster said:


> OK, my Nutz
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32727723202.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.Z0NkmL
> 
> ...



I have been thinking about dumping the ipod touch for a dedicated DAP, and the more I read about the walnut, the more tempted I am to pull the trigger. I need something for work that has better sound and can take my mind off of work edit: (insert fleeting thought here) I also have a pair of Philips X2 that can probably use some DAP and AMP love.

I would like bluetooth, but sound IS what it's all about.

back on topic... KZ, I have been listening to ZSR, ZS6, and ES3's exclusively this week, one model each day, and a couple hours in the evening. My original thought this week was going to be modding my ZS6. Using some Bluetack, chicken that I am, taking a BA out of each ear, and giving them a days listen. Yesterday was ES3 day, today it's ZSR Thursday. I absolutely love the ES3 for my taste, which could be Jason Aldean one track, and London Philharmonic the next, followed by the Script. Listening to the ES3, I found myself wanting a bit more bottom , just a bit. Today the ZSR, is right on the mark, started off at 5:30 sounding a bit high pitchie, then with multiple cups of coffee driven ear burn in, I have to say it is certainly checking all the right boxes.. I am actually excited to park the iPod tonight, and plug into the MSI laptop, and hear what happens next.


----------



## bsoplinger

Strat Rider said:


> I have been thinking about dumping the ipod touch for a dedicated DAP, and the more I read about the walnut, the more tempted I am to pull the trigger. I need something for work that has better sound and can take my mind off of work edit: (insert fleeting thought here) I also have a pair of Philips X2 that can probably use some DAP and AMP love.


I was interested in the Walnut offerings until I learned that they're display-less. I have no desire to go back to the days of carefully arranging files on a,  full sized at the time, SD card so that they'd play in the correct order. I like having a big card full of all sorts of the musical styles that I like so I can pick what I'm feeling for at the time I'm using the player.

I know by not having a display the entire cost can be in the components that actually make sound and you don't need to increase the size of the battery to handle all the necessary power to feature a display. But from my first iPod with a mechanical wheel and whopping 5 Gb of storage I stopped listening to 'songs' and started listening to music. Listening to an entire album by an artist even if there isn't a coherent theme or if the entire album is just a single work in multiple pieces just seems to me to be a more enjoyable listening experience. Perhaps that's why the numerous attempts to make classical music 'accessible to the masses' by making single style collection albums never took off. It was never about listening to classical songs but was always about something a bit more. Perhaps that's why I like the YouTube concert videos so much of bands I like. Awful sound most often but to me at least very enjoyable for the presentation the gathering of the groups song into a single thing, that concert.


----------



## Podster (Feb 15, 2018)

I just love my Walnut stack @Strat Rider , like I said it has the most analog output of any of my portable devices. Sounds excellent with just about every iem I throw at it, the warmer your iem the more analog it sounds but don't confuse that statement because all my ear piercing (KZ's according to many, I not being the sensitive type according to wife) love my ZST/ZS5/6 on it and hopefully ZSR as soon as GB can get them here. I always went for my Topping NX1S/C3 combo in the past but the Walnuts balanced just slay me, last album I played thru them was Neil at Massey Hall and I even think Pono Boy would be impressed

@bsoplinger has a point though, I don't hunt and pick tracks anyway, if I have it on a card I love it and just let my players run random!


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> I just love my Walnut stack @Strat Rider , like I said it has the most analog output of any of my portable devices. Sounds excellent with just about every iem I throw at it, the warmer your iem the more analog it sounds but don't confuse that statement because all my ear piercing (KZ's according to many, I not being the sensitive type according to wife) love my ZST/ZS5/6 on it and hopefully ZSR as soon as GB can get them here. I always went for my Topping NX1S/C3 combo in the past but the Walnuts balanced just slay me, last album I played thru them was Neil at Massey Hall and I even think Pono Boy would be impressed
> 
> @bsoplinger has a point though, I don't hunt and pick tracks anyway, if I have it on a card I love it and just let my players run random!


Neil Young Live at Massey Hall is phenomenal so dynamic and clear.


----------



## Podster

mrmoto050 said:


> Neil Young Live at Massey Hall is phenomenal so dynamic and clear.



Indeed and I love how intement that venue sounds.


----------



## groucho69

Massey Hall was completed in 1894 at a cost of $152,390.75


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 16, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> I have been thinking about dumping the ipod touch for a dedicated DAP, and the more I read about the walnut, the more tempted I am to pull the trigger. I need something for work that has better sound and can take my mind off of work edit: (insert fleeting thought here) I also have a pair of Philips X2 that can probably use some DAP and AMP love.
> 
> I would like bluetooth, but sound IS what it's all about.
> 
> back on topic... KZ, I have been listening to ZSR, ZS6, and ES3's exclusively this week, one model each day, and a couple hours in the evening. My original thought this week was going to be modding my ZS6. Using some Bluetack, chicken that I am, taking a BA out of each ear, and giving them a days listen. Yesterday was ES3 day, today it's ZSR Thursday. I absolutely love the ES3 for my taste, which could be Jason Aldean one track, and London Philharmonic the next, followed by the Script. Listening to the ES3, I found myself wanting a bit more bottom , just a bit. Today the ZSR, is right on the mark, started off at 5:30 sounding a bit high pitchie, then with multiple cups of coffee driven ear burn in, I have to say it is certainly checking all the right boxes.. I am actually excited to park the iPod tonight, and plug into the MSI laptop, and hear what happens next.




Rumor has it that the ES3, which is advertised at 18ohms, if memory serves me right, is actually a 10ohm IEM, though I've not tested it. This may well effect how you hear it through a power-efficient player (iPod Touch). What I can tell you is that the ES3 scales really well and, from experience, that little bit of extra you're wanting in the bottom end comes through in spades without EQing one bit. I'd go you one better. The ES3 could satisfy a basshead with a bit of EQ applied.


----------



## maxxevv

bsoplinger said:


> I was interested in the Walnut offerings until I learned that they're display-less. I have no desire to go back to the days of carefully arranging files on a,  full sized at the time, SD card so that they'd play in the correct order. I like having a big card full of all sorts of the musical styles that I like so I can pick what I'm feeling for at the time I'm using the player.



Walnut has a display enabled version called the V3. Pretty affordable too.  
There are some complaints about its software but sound seems to be at least on par with the F1.  Best is that you read up on those complaints first and see if you like them enough for the sound quality. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...8d5d-4431-ba1e-9a7c0390f2ef&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## Strat Rider

Funny how Chi-Fi works, it all starts with a single iem, KZ or otherwise..... Then down the rabbit hole we go

Thanks for the DAP suggestions, all these years and I  have never had a proper digital player. 

All the talk lately of the KZ EDR series have inspired me to place an order.


----------



## Comebackboy

Should I pull the trigger on the ZS6? Currently using the ZS5 v1. The metal casing is real tempting. Or should I hold out for the ZS10/ZSR Pro thing that's supposedly coming out this year?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 16, 2018)

Comebackboy said:


> Should I pull the trigger on the ZS6? Currently using the ZS5 v1. The metal casing is real tempting. Or should I hold out for the ZS10/ZSR Pro thing that's supposedly coming out this year?




The knee-jerk reaction is to answer with a resounding YES......but, the key point is whether or not you will enjoy the ZS6. If you have the ZS5(i) then you will find that it is quite dark when compared to the ZS6. If you have the ZS5(ii), which is nearly as bright as the ZS6 then you should have no issues with the ZS6 sound signature.

What Knowledge Zenith has fashioned with the ZS6 is an IEM that excels at everything which includes treble. If you are sensitive to treble energy then you may not enjoy the ZS6. That one caveat aside I highly recommend it because you really do get all you could possibly hope for in a sub-$50 IEM. Sub-bass, mid-bass and midrange are all much cleaner with more definition and impact.

The fact that you have the ZS5 means you know what to expect as far as comfort goes due to the geometric design of the housing. Spend a little time with the ZS5 and the ZS6 and a discerning ear will pick up that they are from the same family. 

Blah....blah.....blah....

It's a fantastic IEM!


----------



## Pruikki

DocHoliday said:


> Wow, B9! Sounds very promising. I'm looking forward to getting mine and wish KZ would hurry up and release the other two colors (red & white) they promised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, i think ZSR is more clear, than ES3, which is also very good. sounds "higher quality" is the feel i get. both are good, thats why i have em. but ZSR is better in terms of everything sound wise, i think (will keep on testing)


----------



## HungryPanda

maxxevv said:


> Walnut has a display enabled version called the V3. Pretty affordable too.
> There are some complaints about its software but sound seems to be at least on par with the F1.  Best is that you read up on those complaints first and see if you like them enough for the sound quality.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...8d5d-4431-ba1e-9a7c0390f2ef&priceBeautifyAB=0



I bought one of these and cannot recommend it due to the loud pop/click between tracks


----------



## Pruikki

jeromeaparis said:


> I received my red ZS6 yersteday, I do hear immediatly how great it is (without any burn in).
> I use a stock cable without mic for ZS3, odered on ebay L-R=0.6 G=0.8 ohms
> (I have the KZ silver plated cable, L-R-G=0.4 but the trebles do not need to shine more)
> 
> ...


Thank you! i will try to find a deal on the ZS6 if i can, that was something around 20€
thanks for the reply


----------



## Pruikki

B9Scrambler said:


> Imo the ZS6 is a side grade. You trade sound stage, mid-range warmth/thickness, and a bit of overall coherence for improved layering, separation, imaging and more detail. ZS6 is a fair bit brighter too. I like them both quite a bit. My preference leans to the ZSR. Sounds a bit more mature and refined in it's tuning.



Thank you! perhaps i wont be getting the ZS6 that soon now, ill wait till i see a decent deal.
ill just use the ZSR for now. Thanks dude! very informative


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Hello everybody,
I was taking my spinfit off the ZS5 and the nozzle came off. The ear phone still works but it's loose. How shall I fix it?


----------



## skajohyros

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Hello everybody,
> I was taking my spinfit off the ZS5 and the nozzle came off. The ear phone still works but it's loose. How shall I fix it?


I assume super glue would do the job.


----------



## Makahl

skajohyros said:


> I assume super glue would do the job.



I remember reading about super glue has something which can damage BAs and seeing how close the BAs are from the nozzle I wouldn't recommend that. (and that's why DIY IEMs builders use epoxy or UV glue over super glue).


----------



## Mellowship

HungryPanda said:


> I bought one of these and cannot recommend it due to the loud pop/click between tracks



That might not be too bad for the sake of audio quality... It really depends on the amplitude of the popping/clicking noise and if they only happen when you press Forward/Back or when the track changes to the next on the playlist. 

In my old days of CD player mods, I remember the audio community back then used to recommend the unsoldering of some filtering components from the PCB, some of them on, or parallel to, the signal path. I myself did it on my NAD CD player and the result was quite good regarding sonic "openness" (soooory the audiophyle adjective....) and microdynamics. The other side of the coin was when the CD player was powered up or down while the amp was turned on and with some volume on the pot, a loud pop would come out. And in actively changing tracks (but not when the CD came to the end of a track and passed to another one). I also remember auditioning for an expensive posh CD player (I think it was from Copland but cannot rememeber for sure, only thing I kept was that it costed around 3000 USD), and it clicked and popped all over the track changes... but boy, it delivered!!!     

Well I don't really know if the mechanism of the noise is the same regarding the example I gave, but for sure those noises are not being filtered by the walnut's circuitry...


----------



## Mellowship

Makahl said:


> I remember reading about super glue has something which can damage BAs and seeing how close the BAs are from the nozzle I wouldn't recommend that. (and that's why DIY IEMs builders use epoxy or UV glue over super glue).


I also don't like cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) when very small wires are involved. I guess it has to do with the volatile components that end up sticking around (that white hazy residue that appears all over the place when the glue dries up). The magnetic apparatus on a balanced armature or, let's say, on a small dynamic driver or even in a phono cartridge, are too fragile and too sensible to deal with that sort of volatile components that leave residue.


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> That might not be too bad for the sake of audio quality... It really depends on the amplitude of the popping/clicking noise and if they only happen when you press Forward/Back or when the track changes to the next on the playlist.
> 
> In my old days of CD player mods, I remember the audio community back then used to recommend the unsoldering of some filtering components from the PCB, some of them on, or parallel to, the signal path. I myself did it on my NAD CD player and the result was quite good regarding sonic "openness" (soooory the audiophyle adjective....) and microdynamics. The other side of the coin was when the CD player was powered up or down while the amp was turned on and with some volume on the pot, a loud pop would come out. And in actively changing tracks (but not when the CD came to the end of a track and passed to another one). I also remember auditioning for an expensive posh CD player (I think it was from Copland but cannot rememeber for sure, only thing I kept was that it costed around 3000 USD), and it clicked and popped all over the track changes... but boy, it delivered!!!
> 
> Well I don't really know if the mechanism of the noise is the same regarding the example I gave, but for sure those noises are not being filtered by the walnut's circuitry...



I have no click issues


----------



## maxxevv

HungryPanda said:


> I bought one of these and cannot recommend it due to the loud pop/click between tracks



There seems to have been a firmware update. Judging from the online chatter, it seems to solve some, though not all of its issues.   

Might be worth an investigation if you still have the V3 player.


----------



## Podster (Feb 16, 2018)

Comebackboy said:


> Should I pull the trigger on the ZS6? Currently using the ZS5 v1. The metal casing is real tempting. Or should I hold out for the ZS10/ZSR Pro thing that's supposedly coming out this year?



IMHO The metal Bodied ZS6 puts them in another class altogether to the plastic molds, I do have the ZSR's coming to see how I like them compared to ZST/ZS5V1/ZS3/ATR and ZN1 Mini's


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 16, 2018)

Podster said:


> IMHO The metal Bodied ZS6 puts them in another class altogether to the plastic molds, I do have the ZSR's coming to see how I like them compared to ZST/ZS5V1/ZS3/ATR and ZN1 Mini's




So true...

One of the things that differentiated KZ from their competition in the early days was the fact that most of their models (ED1, ED2, ED3, ED4, ED8 ,ED9, ED10, EDR1, EDR2, & EDSE) were all fashioned from metal. IMHO they should return to their roots and revisit the quality feel of metal, only this time in CNC aluminum (ZS6) instead of the heavier alloys they've used in the past. 

In addition, where metals may not be practical (ZS3, ZSR, etc.) KZ should pursue ceramic housing. This was one of the factors that helped catapult the popularity of the Rock Zircon. The ceramic housings had a much more quality feel in the hand than plastic. If RockZircon can do it so can Knowledge Zenith and this one move could put them head and shoulders above just about the entire Chi-Fi budget market. The fact is that, due to KZ's sales numbers, KZ has the resources that much of their competition lacks. All the more reason to outpace them, pull out ahead and perhaps thin out the "me too" junk that's permeated the marketplace. Just a thought.....

Here is the Rock Zircon....



 



and, if I'm not mistaken, this Rhythmos SD7 is fashioned from ceramics as well.



 

 
If any of KZ's competition is hungry then they will be looking for an opportunity to make a name for themselves by offering something KZ overlooked. Materials is one such area to make a move. Heavy competition is like playing 3-D chess (anticipate your competitors every move on every level before they make it). Hopefully, Knowledge Zenith is paying attention because WE would love to see them offer higher quality than the competition could ever afford to offer at KZ's pricepoint(s).


----------



## realkandar

Hai.  I have plan to have perfect in ear monitor. 
I have some candidate, but more candidate is with kz.  Especially zs6 and es3.
Another is bgvp dm5 and meelectronics. 

I will use for monitoring and listening music to.  My mainly musix is trance and EDM,  alternative and Jazz. 
But, from all my music genre.  I need iem which have natural,clarity, good separation, staging and the great deepth bass. 
Did the KZ ZS6 good for this. 
Or has another can be suggest what is perfect for me but i'm under 100buck.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 16, 2018)

Comebackboy said:


> Should I pull the trigger on the ZS6? Currently using the ZS5 v1. The metal casing is real tempting. Or should I hold out for the ZS10/ZSR Pro thing that's supposedly coming out this year?



Although ZS6 is nicer looking and more comfy (for me ZS5 is great), if You like ZS5v1 sound and You have low output-impedance source with some juice for amping, no need to upgrade to ZS6 imho. But if You want to upgrade on aesthetics and durability, then go for ZS6.

Btw, my ZS5 wooden faceplates CAD drawings are ready and tested ok imported to CNC.
Next week will try to finish them and sand down edges of plastic shells and paint.


----------



## Podster (Feb 16, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> So true...
> 
> One of the things that differentiated KZ from their competition in the early days was the fact that most of their models (ED1, ED2, ED3, ED4, ED8 ,ED9, ED10, EDR1, EDR2, & EDSE) were all fashioned from metal. IMHO they should return to their roots and revisit the quality feel of metal, only this time in CNC aluminum (ZS6) instead of the heavier alloys they've used in the past.
> 
> ...



Right you are, probably some of my appeal to this day on my ED9/11 & HDS1's however I believe they were one of the first aluminum ones

Anyway I do like ceramic and have a ceramic duo myself or we can just call them my Cerami-Kins





@CoiL I'm pumped for those new cads to go live sir


----------



## Slater

Wasn’t someone recently looking for KZ ED12, but they were having trouble finding them?

I think it was to complete their collection or something.

If so, I’ve found them for you...


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 16, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> the shop from i were getting kz curved lowest impedance (black rings in plug) seems to have run out of them.. i've received the "new" one, with white rings (higher impedance, imbalance: left 0.79, right 0.60, ground 0.71 ohms).
> so avoid it.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ord-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-for-KZ/32788061546.html




By any chance, would you re-publish the figures for the TRN cable (#42, I think on your original post a while back). Those figures were very helpful but I am a little foggy on the TRN. 


 



No rush. Thanks Hakuzen.


----------



## bsoplinger

The more I see that TRN cable the more I want to buy it. But I got that 4 strand braided style and I really like it and really don't need to replace it with a different cable. Hopefully KZ will offer something new for me to get and then I will be able to get a TRN cable for that one. After all how else will I spend my money. Eating and heating is just so passé


----------



## DocHoliday

CoiL said:


> To me, ES3 shells look exactly like Fonge T01 which are quite uncomfy for me, so, ES3 is no option for me. But I wonder what drivers it has inside - anyone has pic?




10mm found in both ZSR and the ES3.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 17, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> The more I see that TRN cable the more I want to buy it. But I got that 4 strand braided style and I really like it and really don't need to replace it with a different cable. Hopefully KZ will offer something new for me to get and then I will be able to get a TRN cable for that one. After all how else will I spend my money. Eating and heating is just so passé



Though my ZSR has not yet arrived I am willing to bet that for a comfortable fit you will need the angled connectors that are found on the stock cables and the TRN cables. 

Yesterday I was out and about with the TRN V10 for six hours straight and the cable I used was the tri-braided KZ with the metal connector jackets. Though it was a good pairing for sonics  (ZuneHD+TRN V10+Tri-braid) it was slightly annoying that the cables hovered over my ear, not touching any part of it. This meant numerous adjustments over the six hours I wore them. I learned my lesson and now know that when I order upgrade cables for the ZSR (similar housing to the TRN) the cables must be designed with the 90°+/- angle so the cable wraps more firmly around the ear.

BTW, those TRN V10's, thus far are the BEST IEMs I have used for outdoor purposes. I do have to qualify that statement though. The V10 tends to lean to the darker/warmer side and the mid-bass can be a bit much at times, but I seem to have found a perfect match-up [TRN V10+Widebore eartips +power-efficient DAP (ZuneHD)+upgraded cables (.42/.43/.44 - R/L/G)]. The power-efficient DAP sucks some of the weight out of the sub- and mid-bass, the widebore eartips diffused the bass just a little more. The end result was a meaty and satisfying thickness that simply wouldn't be dominated by the ambient noises surrounding me at any given moment. I was quite surprised at how well they performed considering their dark nature. They didn't sound dark at all outdoors and they didn't sound bright. There was a quite a bit of detail and definition, though not as refined as the ZS6, but still very good for outdoor use. They're definitely not for critical listening at home, but those quad-drivers really put on a show on the street.

I guess what I'm saying is that, for outdoor use, these will probably pair very well with a smartphone or Cowon Plenue D or iPod Touch or decent power-efficient device. 

When the ZSR arrives I will put them through the same paces and report back here with copious notes. In the meantime I'll say that I went through the day far more impressed than I thought possible. 

Thus far....
The king at home is the ZS6. 
The king outdoors; the TRN V10.

Looks like I will be limited to the following for upgrade cables for the ZSR and TRN if I want comfort and proper functionality. 


 

 

 

 

As beautiful as some of the other cables I planned to purchase were, I don't think they will be as functional as the above cables. 

These $40 & $22 cables (respectively) might fit the bill though: 


 

 

That ZSR needs to get here....like.....yesterday.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 17, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I really like it....a lot. It's sort of a slightly warmer ZST (warmer vocals and deeper bass) . There's more micro-detail than the ZS3, but slightly less than the ZST.  All of those who find the ZST treble to be a bit much should be looking directly at an ES3. KZ clearly had them in mind when releasing it. The bass isn't as clean, but it definitely performs. I imagine the ZSR sub-bass is the equivalent since it's the same 10mm driver.
> 
> 
> I plan on doing a review of them, but the BA in my right earpiece is damaged. Sure, I'll open 'em up and try to fix it, but for a proper review these should be replaced.
> ...


Inspired by your nice pic, I used my ES3. But my problem prevailed: nice looking, too much uncontained bass that eats the recessed mids...these iems lack spark and shine, they sound dull and blunt with no coherence and fluidity. The sound is the opposite of airy, fluffy, and open. I then used the ZSE, which did actually sound airy, fluffy, and open...much much better. They ZSE surprise me every time. No idea why nobody figures that. I guess this thread is mainly about window dressing: cheap, good looking iems and sexy cables in the colours of the season and other accessories. But where is the listening pleasure?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 17, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Inspired by your nice pic, I used my ES3. But my problem prevailed: nice looking, too much uncontained bass that eats the recessed mids...these iems lack spark and shine, they sound dull and blunt with no coherence and fluidity. The sound is the opposite of airy, fluffy, and open. I then used the ZSE, which did actually sound airy, fluffy, and open...much much better. They ZSE surprise me every time. No idea why nobody figures that. I guess this thread is mainly about window dressing: cheap, good looking iems and sexy cables in the colours of the season and other accessories. But where is the listening pleasure?




A few questions:
1) What is your preferred sound signature? 
2) What source were you using?
3) What genre of music?
4) What eartips? 
5) Your favorite IEM and why?

The irony is just too inviting to pass up because this proves, once again, that we all hear things differently. 

Many find the ZSE to sound congested at times.
Your comments about the ZSE paint a different portrait. 
Using my ES3 with a power-efficient DAP (ZuneHD), I found them airy and lighter than I prefer on the low end, but I know while listening at home they have a warmer tilt.

It sounds to me, from your comments, that you prefer air and micro-detail as opposed to warmth and weight. If the ES3 serves no useful purpose for you perhaps a friend or associate would enjoy them and you're only out $15......but now you know what you don't like so you'll know what to avoid as people describe other models and/or brands.

At any rate, please give more detail regarding the aforementioned questions.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 17, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> 10mm found in both ZSR and the ES3.


ZSR and ES3 have same crossover too? Can You maybe measure resistors? Interesting....



DocHoliday said:


> It sounds to me, from your comments, that you prefer air and micro-detail as opposed to warmth and weight.


Actually, from what I`ve read he rather likes latter as he pretty much "hates" ZS5v1.
But his comments tend to be little too subjective and harsh on many IEMs. It`s his style of commenting


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 17, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> By any chance, would you re-publish the figures for the TRN cable (#42, I think on your original post a while back). Those figures were very helpful but I am a little foggy on the TRN.
> 
> 
> No rush. Thanks Hakuzen.


done. a moderator removed that entry, like any other mention to that cable. i guess he thinks it's an item from the banned seller. i bought mine in NiceHCK (not banned, although i now have doubts about if it belongs to the banned seller's list of shops -there are many-; nicehck seemed to belong to other owners, at the beginning at least..).

KZ cables DC resistance:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853



Otto Motor said:


> Inspired by your nice pic, I used my ES3. But my problem prevailed: nice looking, too much uncontained bass that eats the recessed mids...these iems lack spark and shine, they sound dull and blunt with no coherence and fluidity. The sound is the opposite of airy, fluffy, and open. I then used the ZSE, which did actually sound airy, fluffy, and open...much much better. They ZSE surprise me every time. No idea why nobody figures that. I guess this thread is mainly about window dressing: cheap, good looking iems and sexy cables in the colours of the season and other accessories. But where is the listening pleasure?


glue clogged bass vents raise the bass considerably, so it might be excessive, and mids & highs sound recessed in comparison. punch the hole with a needle very carefully (punch a little and try, till bass is ok): if you overpunch it, you'll have to close it again with tape, and re-punch the tape (little hole is needed).
foam in the nozzle, in the empty side of the nozzle, aside with BA, is used to tame the mids and upper mids from the dynamic driver. if your mids don't go forward after fixing the bass issue, you can try to remove some of that foam and try.
search for @vector84 posts about ES3 in this thread (also search for mine) to get further information.


----------



## DocHoliday

CoiL said:


> ZSR and ES3 have same crossover too? Can You maybe measure resistors? Interesting....
> 
> 
> Actually, from what I`ve read he rather likes latter as he pretty much "hates" ZS5v1.
> But his comments tend to be little too subjective and harsh on many IEMs. It`s his style of commenting




Thanks for this post, Coil. Seems I've overlooked a significant detail with that crossover. Good looking out. Haven't done any testing. No gear at the moment, but I should have considered this and the QC issues that hakuzen mentions about glue and foam in the nozzles. 



hakuzen said:


> done. a moderator removed that entry, like any other mention to that cable. i guess he thinks it's an item from the banned seller. i bought mine in NiceHCK (not banned, although i now have doubts about if it belongs to the banned seller's list of shops -there are many-; nicehck seemed to belong to other owners, at the beginning at least..).
> 
> KZ cables DC resistance:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853
> ...



"I bought mine in NiceHCK (not banned, although i now have doubts about if it belongs to the banned seller's list of shops -there are many-; nicehck seemed to belong to other owners"

I was beginning to wonder about this myself last night while searching for cables. Maybe the heavy volume guys (NiceHCK & banned seller) know each other if they both have their facilities in the Shenzeng electronics district. Probably a friendly competition between the two. 

Thanks for the link and for directing the OP to seek out what could be a QC issue. I forget this issue exists because quality control has only been an issue maybe 5% of the time with my KZ's.

Your post and Coil's will serve as a necessary reminder that their is sometimes more than meets the eye.


----------



## Slater

So TRN is an exclusive brand of the banned seller, and can’t be discussed?

News to me.


----------



## eaglearrow

nadezhda 6004 said:


> skajohyros said: ↑
> Close to perfect for me would be zs6 bass and mids, more balanced highs and the phenomenal soundstage of the zs5.
> 
> That sounds VERY  tempting. Could anybody compare ZS5, 6 and ZSR in details?
> BTW, I received Ostry KC06A yesterday. They are twice as much as ZS6 but I wouldn't say they sound better. Will play with different tips, though, as I am expecting different sizes of spinfit and Comply tips. May be that will help Ostry to sound better. I've read so many positive reviews on Ostry and it's a frustration now to hear no difference.



Hey bud, the KC06A are amazing. Don't lose heart. Play around with the tips. The stock filtered tips were no good for me. What actually worked for me was The stock, 'M size filtered tip, minus the filter' (i removed the filter from the tip). Sounded the best. The bass reaches super low and the mids are almost close to perfection to my liking.YMMV.  Treble may get a little siblant at times but nothing in treble cannon category. Even today, they are one among the top few IEMS i reach out for.


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> So TRN is an exclusive brand of the banned seller, and can’t be discussed?
> 
> News to me.


dunno.. but a moderator posted, reminding us to avoid mentions to the banned seller shops and products, and then i found my posts about trn cable were deleted. so i guess yes.


about the ES3 QC issues, and their workarounds, found my frequency response measurements, where you can notice the influence of glued venting holes and nozzle foams:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1525#post-13765816


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 17, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> dunno.. but a moderator posted, reminding us to avoid mentions to the banned seller shops and products, and then i found my posts about trn cable were deleted. so i guess yes.
> 
> 
> about the ES3 QC issues, and their workarounds, found my frequency response measurements, where you can notice the influence of glued venting holes and nozzle foams:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1525#post-13765816



Thanks for this hakuzen.Those readings in your first chart show such a wide variance, which is concerning. Clear evidence of why two different people hear two different things. Unacceptable QC!





For those of us who are older than god: 



The joys of finger-painting.....


----------



## nadezhda 6004 (Feb 17, 2018)

eaglearrow said:


> What actually worked for me was The stock, 'M size filtered tip, minus the filter' (i removed the filter from the tip). Sounded the best. The bass reaches super low and the mids are almost close to perfection to my liking.YMMV.  Treble may get a little siblant at times but nothing in treble cannon category. Even today, they are one among the top few IEMS i reach out for.


Do you mean size M for "crystal clear sound" or for "bass-driven sound"? But there are no filters there. I think you mean the one which is the only with a mesh/filter. Right?
Are they (Ostry) really better than Sony MH1, Bose AE2 and **** F02? 
Which of the four is bassier?


----------



## eaglearrow

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Do you mean size M for "crystal clear sound" or for "bass-driven sound"? But there are no filters there. I think you mean the one which is the only with a mesh/filter. Right?
> Are they (Ostry) really better than Sony MH1, Bose AE2 and **** F02?
> Which of the four is bassier?



We get 3 pairs of Eartips (S,M,L) with mesh and 3 pairs(S,M,L a bit too soft) without mesh.

Yes, I meant Size M which actually had a mesh/filter in them initially. But it sounded perfect when i pushed/removed the mesh/filter out of them. 

  

Though the MH1C sound good, Ostry's are on a different league compared to them. 
Bose AE2(yes  i regret buying these) and F02 is a joke compared to how these sound. No comparison, trust me. If u have been using a Zs6/Zs5, keep them aside for a while since your ears might have been adjusted to those extreme treble. When i initially used the Zs6 for 3 days and then went to my other Iem collection, i was really scared since i couldn't  hear much treble even from my titan 1 which i loved so much before. For a moment, i thought that i had lost my hearing in the high freq range, lol. Took me about 2 days to get the actual feel of my titans back. Went back to Zs6 and that's when i realized how Siblant and Trebley the Zs6 were. Been staying away from the ZS6 for a while..


----------



## VinceHill24

eaglearrow said:


> If u have been using a Zs6/Zs5, keep them aside for a while since your ears might have been adjusted to those extreme treble. When i initially used the Zs6 for 3 days and then went to my other Iem collection, i was really scared since i couldn't hear much treble even from my titan 1 which i loved so much before. For a moment, i thought that i had lost my hearing in the high freq range, lol. Took me about 2 days to get the actual feel of my titans back. Went back to Zs6 and that's when i realized how Siblant and Trebley the Zs6 were. Been staying away from the ZS6 for a while..


I absolutely agree with you. Brain burn-in is so much more real. Listening to some single dynamic lately like Ostry KC09, now i hardly reach out to zs6 anymore coz few attempts i found out that i couldn't stand the sibilant and treble. But of course i believe if i give them more time after a few listen, i'll get used to it again and the ostry will become dark again. Human's brain is so nice to play with lol. Anyway, ostry seems to be very underrated here, not sure why. Maybe price or design is not appealing i guess


----------



## themindfreak

I second the treble brain burn in as well as I am too a victim of such incidents from KZ earphones to my own iem collection XD


----------



## jeromeaparis (Feb 18, 2018)

Hi, I did test yersteday a fresh ES3 with stock mic cable. My feelings:
Bass are big and round
Voices are recessed (level and details)
Highs are sibilant, and it is disturbing
My fresh ES3 is not well tuned
So now let try a long burn in...
I can compare with my:

# ZST (burn in 80h, stock no mic cable)
Bass: very good level, some details,
Voices slightly recessed but more level and details than ES3
High: Very good, details, no sibilance (after long burn in)
the ZST is well tuned, warm large spatial soundstage, good instruments separation.
# ZSR (burn in 10h, KZ silver cable)
Bass: Powerfull, defined, goes deep and deeper with same energy, not excessive & pushes hard when needed
Voices: Good details, slightly recessed in some cases
Highs: Excellent, usualy not sibilant
The ZSR is like a super ZST
# ZS6 fresh out off the box (red, with ZS3 no-mic stock cable)
Bass: near ZSR but a bit different
Voices: Clear, detailed, not recessed, better than all others
Highs: Excellent, details, no sibilance, nearly as ZSR, lower level (Do I have a ZS6-ll ?)
The ZS6 is like a super ZSR...


----------



## Pruikki

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I did test yersteday a fresh ES3 with stock mic cable. My feelings:
> Bass are big and round
> Voices are recessed (level and details)
> Highs are sibilant, and it is disturbing
> ...




So KZ ZS6 the new one the Red v2 is good? should i now consider it? i may.

ill wait few weeks and order it then, if its as u say, Then i might want to try the new improved ZS6 
Thank you for the detailed explanation. seems like the new red Zs6 thats is  little more expensive is better it seems.

i do like the ZSR, its the first iem that made me go " WOW" i started to listen to music again and making Vaporwave (on YT) because of it 

Cheers!


----------



## jeromeaparis

Pruikki said:


> So KZ ZS6 the new one the Red v2 is good? should i now consider it? i may.
> 
> ill wait few weeks and order it then, if its as u say, Then i might want to try the new improved ZS6
> Thank you for the detailed explanation. seems like the new red Zs6 thats is  little more expensive is better it seems.
> ...



I think that if you do not need more clear & detailed voices, you may stay with the ZSR.


----------



## orlando2989

jeromeaparis said:


> # ZS6 fresh out off the box (red, with ZS3 no-mic stock cable)
> Bass: near ZSR but a bit different
> Voices: Clear, detailed, not recessed, better than all others
> Highs: Excellent, details, no sibilance, nearly as ZSR, lower level (Do I have a ZS6-ll ?)
> The ZS6 is like a super ZSR...



Where did you buy your KZ zs6?


----------



## nadezhda 6004

eaglearrow said:


> We get 3 pairs of Eartips (S,M,L) with mesh and 3 pairs(S,M,L a bit too soft) without mesh.


All of the tips from the box are without meshes. The box was sealed. Do you think I got a fake product? I have only one tip with a mesh.


----------



## eaglearrow

nadezhda 6004 said:


> All of the tips from the box are without meshes. The box was sealed. Do you think I got a fake product? I have only one tip with a mesh.


Never heard of fake Ostry's. Highly unlikely. May be they changed the accessories qty??


----------



## nadezhda 6004

eaglearrow said:


> Never heard of fake Ostry's. Highly unlikely. May be they changed the accessories qty??


I have 6 pairs of tips. 3 pairs for crystal sound and 3 pairs for Bass sound.


----------



## jeromeaparis

orlando2989 said:


> Where did you buy your KZ zs6?


Baught it at Gearbest
https://www.gearbest.com/ZS6-_gear/
Had it at a lower price, cause they sometimes make a quick promo for just 20pcs.


----------



## ivo001

Been away from this thread for the past 2 weeks. Has there been more detailed news about some of the 2018 line-up?


----------



## HungryPanda

not a squeek


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> not a squeek


----------



## HungryPanda

Enjoying this album tonight:


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 19, 2018)

Start your day with the ZS6 and just feel that bass and absorb those vivid vocals.


Spoiler


----------



## stjimmyjos

What cable from ali do you recommend for ZS6? What do you think about this https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32842...00_0109&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32842771094


----------



## zazaboy

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I did test yersteday a fresh ES3 with stock mic cable. My feelings:
> Bass are big and round
> Voices are recessed (level and details)
> Highs are sibilant, and it is disturbing
> ...



hi, all... can anyone confirm red zs6 from gearbest are not sibilant? do we have a zs6 v2 here ?


----------



## jeromeaparis

zazaboy said:


> hi, all... can anyone confirm red zs6 from gearbest are not sibilant? do we have a zs6 v2 here ?



On the ZS6, I hear the voices, the mediums are realy more forward than on the ZSR, so you hear less the bass. It's difficult to evaluate the level off the trebles, cause
they seem to be at the same level as the voices.  The ZSR is more layback, a bit V shaped, the voices are more distant, it can be confortable sometimes, maybe the trebles are a bit softer (ater 48h burn in) than ZS6. New out off the box, I heard no sibilance, but after some hours, I could hear some, sometimes. I guess it needs 80hr of burnin to inprove, like all the other hybrid KZ. New from the box, the ES3 is sibilant all the time, after 48h of burnin it's only better, and much better with foam tips.


----------



## nxnje

jeromeaparis said:


> On the ZS6, I hear the voices, the mediums are realy more forward than on the ZSR, so you hear less the bass. It's difficult to evaluate the level off the trebles, cause
> they seem to be at the same level as the voices.  The ZSR is more layback, a bit V shaped, the voices are more distant, it can be confortable sometimes, maybe the trebles are a bit softer (ater 48h burn in) than ZS6. New out off the box, I heard no sibilance, but after some hours, I could hear some, sometimes. I guess it needs 80hr of burnin to inprove, like all the other hybrid KZ. New from the box, the ES3 is sibilant all the time, after 48h of burnin it's only better, and much better with foam tips.



So the ZSR may not be the best choice to who wants a detailed med-high spectrum.
I really can't find a good cheap headphones that sounds OK for my ears.
I actually use MEMT x5 as my daily drivers after my hardtries with KZ ZS3 that i found rly uncomfy, and i like them a lot, but i still can't hear the clarity in the voices i listen to.
Voices become a bit too warm and don't sound natural like they should.
I really like their sound signature but i would really like to hear a more natural response on the voices and a more detailed sound without lacking a punchy and deep bass. I think it's gonna be impossible ahahaha


----------



## Willber

nxnje said:


> So the ZSR may not be the best choice to who wants a detailed med-high spectrum.
> I really can't find a good cheap headphones that sounds OK for my ears.
> I actually use MEMT x5 as my daily drivers after my hardtries with KZ ZS3 that i found rly uncomfy, and i like them a lot, but i still can't hear the clarity in the voices i listen to.
> Voices become a bit too warm and don't sound natural like they should.
> I really like their sound signature but i would really like to hear a more natural response on the voices and a more detailed sound without lacking a punchy and deep bass. I think it's gonna be impossible ahahaha


Try the UiiSii CM5:

https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY


----------



## nxnje

Willber said:


> Try the UiiSii CM5:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY



Many people tipped this to me, but i just can't understand if the shape is similiar to the kz zs3.
Are they big? I remember my zs3 was way uncomfortable to me as i have a real little ear.


----------



## jeromeaparis

nxnje said:


> So the ZSR may not be the best choice to who wants a detailed med-high spectrum.
> I really can't find a good cheap headphones that sounds OK for my ears.
> I actually use MEMT x5 as my daily drivers after my hardtries with KZ ZS3 that i found rly uncomfy, and i like them a lot, but i still can't hear the clarity in the voices i listen to.
> Voices become a bit too warm and don't sound natural like they should.
> I really like their sound signature but i would really like to hear a more natural response on the voices and a more detailed sound without lacking a punchy and deep bass. I think it's gonna be impossible ahahaha



I do recommand to you the ZSR. Night and day with the ZS3 (I have) considering medium and trebles details !
The bass are better than the ZS3, even more punchy and deep.
The voices are well present & detailed (even if on the ZS6 the level is higher)
The trebles are very detailed (On the ZS3, for me the trebles are weak with very few details. even with silver cable and foam removed)


----------



## Willber

nxnje said:


> Many people tipped this to me, but i just can't understand if the shape is similiar to the kz zs3.
> Are they big? I remember my zs3 was way uncomfortable to me as i have a real little ear.


They are not as contoured as the ZS3, more of a generic shape. Very comfortable to me, but everyone is different. There is only one way to find out.


----------



## fredhubbard2

just received my ZS5's ... I think they sound great, but how the hell does anyone get them to sit securely in their ears ?!!!
I'm using my usual sized spiral dot tips and they just keep popping out .

GRRRRR....


----------



## groucho69

Try one size up



fredhubbard2 said:


> just received my ZS5's ... I think they sound great, but how the hell does anyone get them to sit securely in their ears ?!!!
> I'm using my usual sized spiral dot tips and they just keep popping out .
> 
> GRRRRR....


----------



## nxnje

jeromeaparis said:


> I do recommand to you the ZSR. Night and day with the ZS3 (I have) considering medium and trebles details !
> The bass are better than the ZS3, even more punchy and deep.
> The voices are well present & detailed (even if on the ZS6 the level is higher)
> The trebles are very detailed (On the ZS3, for me the trebles are weak with very few details. even with silver cable and foam removed)


Think i'm gonna pick a pair if i see them on sale at a good price point, now they cost a lil bit out of my budget.



Willber said:


> They are not as contoured as the ZS3, more of a generic shape. Very comfortable to me, but everyone is different. There is only one way to find out.


I will try contacting uiisii to get a discounted sample maybe in exchange of a review here.



fredhubbard2 said:


> just received my ZS5's ... I think they sound great, but how the hell does anyone get them to sit securely in their ears ?!!!
> I'm using my usual sized spiral dot tips and they just keep popping out .
> 
> GRRRRR....


Try foam tips : i had several problems with many iems (even zs3) like yours, and i can say that when u try foam tips, u never go back.
You lose a very little bit of bass but you're pleased to listen to your music as the in-ear fits perfectly and doesn't pop off.


----------



## Willber

nxnje said:


> I will try contacting uiisii to get a discounted sample maybe in exchange of a review here.


Worth a try, but I think they are already an amazing price on Amazon. Gearbest has them at $30.


----------



## fredhubbard2

> Try foam tips : i had several problems with many iems (even zs3) like yours, and i can say that when u try foam tips, u never go back.
> You lose a very little bit of bass but you're pleased to listen to your music as the in-ear fits perfectly and doesn't pop off.



hmmm, will try altho never got on with foam tips before, I find they diminish sub bass and sound stage


----------



## fredhubbard2

groucho69 said:


> Try one size up



LOL, I'm using the largest size ... think its more an issue with the actual shape of the housings.


----------



## Infected Mushroom (Feb 19, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Many people tipped this to me, but i just can't understand if the shape is similiar to the kz zs3.
> Are they big? I remember my zs3 was way uncomfortable to me as i have a real little ear.



Here are some photos of the shape and size compared to ZST (I don't have ZS3). Also, you should know that there are 2 variants - black cable ('male size') and white cable ('female size') - they are a few mm smaller.




Spoiler


----------



## groucho69

fredhubbard2 said:


> LOL, I'm using the largest size ... think its more an issue with the actual shape of the housings.



Crazy as it sounds, try one size smaller.


----------



## bsoplinger

fredhubbard2 said:


> LOL, I'm using the largest size ... think its more an issue with the actual shape of the housings.


Another possibility, the KZ Whirlwind style. I find that the spiral bit adds a small amount of extra rigidity to the shell of the ear tip so I get both a better seal and a tighter (just slightly) fit.


----------



## Mellowship

fredhubbard2 said:


> LOL, I'm using the largest size ... think its more an issue with the actual shape of the housings.


Are you using the cable with the memory wire ear guides? Maybe the stiffness of the memory wire is snapping the housing of your ears. By all means, cut them off. (The wires, not the ears).
Also, foam tips should help.


----------



## nxnje

I didn't feel less soundstage.
Subbass is a bit less deeper but u gain something in detail and comfort.


----------



## nxnje

fredhubbard2 said:


> hmmm, will try altho never got on with foam tips before, I find they diminish sub bass and sound stage


That message was for u sorry.


----------



## CoiL (Feb 19, 2018)

fredhubbard2 said:


> just received my ZS5's ... I think they sound great, but how the hell does anyone get them to sit securely in their ears ?!!!
> I'm using my usual sized spiral dot tips and they just keep popping out ..


You have v1 (1BA in nozzle) or v2 (2BA in nozzle)? I luv my ZS5v1 so much that I`m considering another v2 for surgery and mod since v1 isn`t available anymore.... BUT... I`m holding on and saving up to IT01.
Btw, for tips try these ones that come only with this cheapo IEM: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html

They are longer, cone shaped, large bore and soft "skirt" with medium softness tube that is smaller but stretches and holds very well for ZS5.


----------



## SuperLuigi

I'm trying to decide on a bluetooth setup for working out/sports.  Any suggestions for some bluetooth cables along with some sweatproof/waterproof headphones?  I'm been reading up on the forums and having a hard time sorting it out.


----------



## Willber (Feb 19, 2018)

fredhubbard2 said:


> just received my ZS5's ... I think they sound great, but how the hell does anyone get them to sit securely in their ears ?!!!
> I'm using my usual sized spiral dot tips and they just keep popping out .
> 
> GRRRRR....


I had the same issue when I got my ZS6. Triple flanges solved it for me.


----------



## Saoshyant

Inexpensive detailed Mid-High?  I'd honestly consider earbuds, maybe the Auglamour RX-1.


----------



## rayliam80

Willber said:


> I had the same issue when I got my ZS6. Triple flanges solved it for me.



+1 for Triple Flange too. They stick out slightly but for staying in your ears plus sound quality plus being silicone (longer lasting than foam) is worth it, imho.


----------



## NeonHD

Lol I have no idea what I did to my ZS6s but currently they sound like garbage. Its bass is now too overwhelming, mids feel recessed, and it drastically lost its clarity and resolution. Maybe I shouldn't had messed around with the BA with the sticky tack......


----------



## Slater

SuperLuigi said:


> I'm trying to decide on a bluetooth setup for working out/sports.  Any suggestions for some bluetooth cables along with some sweatproof/waterproof headphones?  I'm been reading up on the forums and having a hard time sorting it out.



Meizu EP52 is good: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/meizu-ep52.22763/#comment-289

It has an emphasis on bass (typical consumer tuning), so as long as you're not expecting a neutral or treble-boosted sound it's great for working out.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Lol I have no idea what I did to my ZS6s but currently they sound like garbage. Its bass is now too overwhelming, mids feel recessed, and it drastically lost its clarity and resolution. Maybe I shouldn't had messed around with the BA with the sticky tack......



Did you drop them? Sounds like the BA drivers got damaged somehow.

You can try tapping them gently against a table a few times. Sometimes that "fixes" the BA drivers.


----------



## B9Scrambler

A review of an earphone; https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/reviews#review-19920


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Did you drop them? Sounds like the BA drivers got damaged somehow.
> 
> You can try tapping them gently against a table a few times. Sometimes that "fixes" the BA drivers.


----------



## Wiljen

I don't know how you guys wear those things, I have never had any luck with the triple flange designs to be comfortable enough to wear for any length of time.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> I don't know how you guys wear those things, I have never had any luck with the triple flange designs to be comfortable enough to wear for any length of time.



Same for me.  I don't even like doubles.


----------



## Otto Motor

B9Scrambler said:


> A review of an earphone; https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/reviews#review-19920


Good to read that KZ are finally getting their act together with their multiple-driver generations. The previous ones looked all flashy but none of them was without major flaws. Adding up all my recent KZ purchases, I could have had the Brainwavz B400 instead. Looking forward to receiving my ZSR.


----------



## bsoplinger

Wiljen said:


> I don't know how you guys wear those things, I have never had any luck with the triple flange designs to be comfortable enough to wear for any length of time.


Whenever I've needed to use triple flange tips because nothing else was giving me a decent seal I end up trimming off the smallest flange because they go too deep into my ear canal. Then they are OK. But never other than my last choice because nothing else is giving me the fit necessary.


----------



## khighly

Is there a proper Bluetooth cable for the ZS6's yet that lasts a good 5-6 hours of real use with aptX? IT03's are keeping me from going back to ZS6 because of the MMCX.


----------



## chinmie

khighly said:


> Is there a proper Bluetooth cable for the ZS6's yet that lasts a good 5-6 hours of real use with aptX? IT03's are keeping me from going back to ZS6 because of the MMCX.



You could try this for 2pin model

 

Or this one for mmcx

 
I personally have this type and like it so much. Bought it from Nicehck

Both support aptx, have low latency and have long battery life.

If you don't need the aptx and okay with shorter battery, there are also mmcx cable similar in style with the KZ ones, but have low latency, so no audio delay like KZ's


----------



## chinmie

Wiljen said:


> I don't know how you guys wear those things, I have never had any luck with the triple flange designs to be comfortable enough to wear for any length of time.



The only time i needed to wear triple flanges is with my etymotics. Even with that, i prefer to use them with westone tips instead of the stock triple flanges


----------



## jeromeaparis

B9Scrambler said:


> A review of an earphone; https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/reviews#review-19920



Hi, This is a new great detailed review of the ZSR compared with the ZS6 !


----------



## RomStar

Oh kz... You know I love me some audio and all, but I have no clue what to make of those bold statements.....

I guess Its another cryptic way of making me buy dozens of iems even though I have enough, and so the cycle continues ..


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 20, 2018)

khighly said:


> Is there a proper Bluetooth cable for the ZS6's yet that lasts a good 5-6 hours of real use with aptX? IT03's are keeping me from going back to ZS6 because of the MMCX.



It's reported that these TRN Bluetooth last 7 - 8 hours and sound very good with minimal latency. As usual you can have them in just a few days via Amazon ($30).  



It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the ZS6(ii) vs the IT03.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> Good to read that KZ are finally getting their act together with their multiple-driver generations. The previous ones looked all flashy but none of them was without major flaws. Adding up all my recent KZ purchases, I could have had the Brainwavz B400 instead. Looking forward to receiving my ZSR.



It still isn't perfect but I wouldn't expect it to be given it's a budget product.


----------



## Willber

Saoshyant said:


> Inexpensive detailed Mid-High?  I'd honestly consider earbuds, maybe the Auglamour RX-1.


You made me curious. I was never keen on my RX1 when I was into earbuds, but I thought I'd get them out and give them a try again. And... they sounded great! Much better than I remembered. Funny how tastes change. They are now dusted off and back in circulation with my Nebula One and CM5. Nice one, @Saoshyant!


----------



## Willber

Wiljen said:


> I don't know how you guys wear those things, I have never had any luck with the triple flange designs to be comfortable enough to wear for any length of time.


I found two things to be important:

1. Correct size (obviously).
2. Don't push them in too hard. Because there is more surface area, you don't need so much pressure for a good seal. You can wear them quite 'loose' and they will still grip. This way I find them very comfortable.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 20, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> ES3 is pretty darn nice and def worth a mention. Still need to pick up a set.




After reading your ZSR review I'd say the ES3 are very likely subservient to the ZSR.  



> The low end on the ZSR is reminiscent of the ZS3; slightly mid-bass focused and darkish with good depth and weight.


This describes the low end of the ES3 well. If the ZSR outclasses the ZST then it will certainly outclass the ES3 as the ES3 is a slight variation of the ZST. The ES3 is a ZST with deeper/slower bass and slightly restrained treble (mid- to lower-treble focus as opposed to upper-treble focus) in comparison to the ZST. 

All in all I like the ES3 quite a bit, but I am expecting the ZSR to be a more dynamic version of the ES3 with deeper/wider soundstage and perhaps an even more vivid midrange. I go back and forth on whether or not the ES3 needs more treble extension because it's not always necessary to pull that last bit of micro-detail out, especially if your goal is to appease the treble-sensitive, which is what I think KZ had in mind with the ES3's release. 

With all that said, it's worth having in your collection, if for no other reason than  to document the progress from your KZ ANV to the ZS6 and beyond.

The ES3 bass (and by extension I expect the ZSR bass) can make or break tracks like this:


----------



## stryed

chinmie said:


> You could try this for 2pin model
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you own these? Because I'm not certain about Aptx availability as they most sellers don't mention it (except one). As it would be for watching videos at home, lag would be a pain.


----------



## fredhubbard2

well a very nice revelation indeed this eve...after having difficulties with my trusted spiral dots on my ZS5's I experimented with some foamies which ive always detested and ...viola! they go ok. still enough bass and no real loss of soundstage which I always experience with foams on my other IEMS. 

very pleased


----------



## bsoplinger

stryed said:


> Do you own these? Because I'm not certain about Aptx availability as they most sellers don't mention it (except one). As it would be for watching videos at home, lag would be a pain.


AptX isn't the be all end all of a good Bluetooth connection for audio. Low latency is at least as important if you are doing anything related to viewing while listening, ie watching video or playing a game. Its not necessary for just listening to music. You can have a good low latency Bluetooth connection without an AptX connection and visa versa. So perhaps that headset is just low latency and not AptX and its still a good one.


----------



## stryed

bsoplinger said:


> AptX isn't the be all end all of a good Bluetooth connection for audio. Low latency is at least as important if you are doing anything related to viewing while listening, ie watching video or playing a game. Its not necessary for just listening to music. You can have a good low latency Bluetooth connection without an AptX connection and visa versa. So perhaps that headset is just low latency and not AptX and its still a good one.



I'm guessing the bluetooth emitting device comes into play? I think the usb bluetooth module on the desktop is pretty crappy


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the ZS6(ii) vs the IT03.


My super quick take on the iBasso IT01 vs the KZ VS6(i). No comparison. Easy to tell the $100 product from the $25 (what I paid) one. Smoother sound across the board. No spikes in frequency response especially not in the highs. Controlled bass and sub bass if perhaps a slight amount less. Not saying that the ZS6 is bad. But the IT01 is just much better.


----------



## stryed

bsoplinger said:


> My super quick take on the iBasso IT01 vs the KZ VS6(i). No comparison. Easy to tell the $100 product from the $25 (what I paid) one. Smoother sound across the board. No spikes in frequency response especially not in the highs. Controlled bass and sub bass if perhaps a slight amount less. Not saying that the ZS6 is bad. But the IT01 is just much better.



Same thoughts here against the KZ5v2. However the KZ5 is still listenable after owning the IT01 (has better soundstage imo), but not as enjoyable. I still use both daily (KZ5 while commuting).

Are people sure that there is such a thing as a KZ6 v2?


----------



## khighly

bsoplinger said:


> AptX isn't the be all end all of a good Bluetooth connection for audio. Low latency is at least as important if you are doing anything related to viewing while listening, ie watching video or playing a game. Its not necessary for just listening to music. You can have a good low latency Bluetooth connection without an AptX connection and visa versa. So perhaps that headset is just low latency and not AptX and its still a good one.



I get low latency from my Pixel XL and SBC/AAC/aptX with both my MEE Audio BTX1 and my Anker BT Speaker. aptX just sends higher bitrate audio -- I haven't really noticed any other difference. They all skip like heck in Downtown Seattle with my PIxel XL (probably due to KUOW).

MEE Audio BTX1 lasts around 5 hours with music at a decent level, KZ 4.2 BT has no aptX even though they claim it does (at least mine didn't...said it did in the manual) and lasts 2-3 hours. I do really like the MEE Audio BTX1, but I wish it had 2-3 more hours of music playback time so I could get a Pixel XL2.


----------



## fredhubbard2

Mellowship said:


> Are you using the cable with the memory wire ear guides? Maybe the stiffness of the memory wire is snapping the housing of your ears. By all means, cut them off. (The wires, not the ears).
> Also, foam tips should help.



how easy are the memory wires to cut off?


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> Did you drop them? Sounds like the BA drivers got damaged somehow.
> 
> You can try tapping them gently against a table a few times. Sometimes that "fixes" the BA drivers.



Nah I used a needle and poked around in the BA, one the BAs seem loose so I probably broke a wire or something.


----------



## chinmie

stryed said:


> Do you own these? Because I'm not certain about Aptx availability as they most sellers don't mention it (except one). As it would be for watching videos at home, lag would be a pain.



I own the bottom picture one. It really do have Aptx as i tried connecting it to my old xperia Z (my only phone that shows on the screen whether aptx connection engaged or not) and it says on the screen that aptx was on.

The top picture, well there are two version, one with aptx and one without. The former is a little bit pricier. Ypu can check on the item's description which version it is


----------



## Duncan

stryed said:


> Are people sure that there is such a thing as a KZ6 v2?


The second pair I have sound vastly different to the first - so, as I mentioned initially, either there is a v2, or - there are wild and varied configurations, that mean it would be very easy to either buy a gem, or a lemon...

The "better" sounding pair came with reference to a "qq" email address on the back of the box...


----------



## rayliam80 (Feb 20, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> My super quick take on the iBasso IT01 vs the KZ VS6(i). No comparison. Easy to tell the $100 product from the $25 (what I paid) one. Smoother sound across the board. No spikes in frequency response especially not in the highs. Controlled bass and sub bass if perhaps a slight amount less. Not saying that the ZS6 is bad. But the IT01 is just much better.



Comparing it to the ZS6, the IT01 sounds more thick and realistic. Instruments, vocals have more oomph/presence whereas the ZS6 sounds thinner. I feel like music with lots of stuff going on, effects, etc. - the IT01 translates those passages better. Maybe this is what people refer to as coherency. Soundstage on the ZS6 is much wider, maybe too wide for some recordings.

I still find the ZS6 and the ZST pleasant as well as a tad bit more comfortable than the IT01. But for critical immersive listening, I'll probably stick to the IT01 and use the KZ's as well as the CM5 for commuting or other activities.

FWIW, I'm using triple flange tips, LG V30+ in Aux Mode (_high impedance cable trick _<- ignore this please since there is no strike through font available) and Neutron with FLAC files ripped from CDs @ 16 bit/44.1 kHz.


----------



## stryed

chinmie said:


> I own the bottom picture one. It really do have Aptx as i tried connecting it to my old xperia Z (my only phone that shows on the screen whether aptx connection engaged or not) and it says on the screen that aptx was on.
> 
> The top picture, well there are two version, one with aptx and one without. The former is a little bit pricier. Ypu can check on the item's description which version it is



Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of these BT cables having 7h battery life. Many of these, like those from KZ, have 2h advertised.


----------



## trumpethead

bsoplinger said:


> My super quick take on the iBasso IT01 vs the KZ VS6(i). No comparison. Easy to tell the $100 product from the $25 (what I paid) one. Smoother sound across the board. No spikes in frequency response especially not in the highs. Controlled bass and sub bass if perhaps a slight amount less. Not saying that the ZS6 is bad. But the IT01 is just much better.



I agree, The ITO1 is just a notch above and that says a lot considering how good the Zs6 are.


----------



## Otto Motor

Duncan said:


> The second pair I have sound vastly different to the first - so, as I mentioned initially, either there is a v2, or - there are wild and varied configurations, that mean it would be very easy to either buy a gem, or a lemon...
> 
> The "better" sounding pair came with reference to a "qq" email address on the back of the box...


Which one is better sounding the first or the later pair?


----------



## Slater (Feb 20, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Which one is better sounding the first or the later pair?



The latter pair.

BTW, the newest IEMs have the "@qq" email address. None of my ZS6s do (including 2 bought in December), but interestingly the ZSR does. All of my ZS6 sound the same.

So perhaps the rumors of a revised ZS6 are indeed true. I just don't know if I want to spend another $40 to find out that it's just a minor side grade, when I already own numerous pairs of ZS6. I'd rather put that money on something that's a significant upgrade (such as the iBasso IT01).


----------



## maxxevv

rayliam80 said:


> FWIW, I'm using triple flange tips, LG V30+ in Aux Mode (high impedance cable trick) and Neutron with FLAC files ripped from CDs @ 16 bit/44.1 kHz.



This sounds contradictory. The LG audio phones have a "external device" (which is Auxiliary out mode actually)  and "high impedance device" mode.  You don't do both at the same time as you're implying here.  I own a G6. 

Personal experience with the ZS6 is that it sounds a lot smoother and full-bodied when used with the "external device mode".  
You activate that mode by connecting a cable extender / angled-adaptor / splitter to the headphone jack first without connecting the headphones / earphones.  After which, start the music player, then connect your earphone/headphone. 

For high impedance mode, you need a device that has an impedance of greater than 50 Ohms. Plug it in and the mode is activated. 

For almost all earphones that have balanced armatures, adding impedance resistors to the chain is not a good idea as it often can and will drastically alter the sound signature of the earphone. 

So which one was it that you used actually ? Aux mode or adding an impedance device / resistor to the jack line ???


----------



## rayliam80 (Feb 20, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> This sounds contradictory. The LG audio phones have a "external device" (which is Auxiliary out mode actually)  and "high impedance device" mode.  You don't do both at the same time as you're implying here.  I own a G6.
> 
> Personal experience with the ZS6 is that it sounds a lot smoother and full-bodied when used with the "external device mode".
> You activate that mode by connecting a cable extender / angled-adaptor / splitter to the headphone jack first without connecting the headphones / earphones.  After which, start the music player, then connect your earphone/headphone.
> ...



Yeah that's exactly what I do. I have an extension cable that I connect first tripping it into AUX mode. Sound is louder, more full as described by others who have had similar results with plugging in extension cables or splitters. It sounds better to my ears rather than leaving it in normal mode. I apologize for being misleading by mistake. So yeah, no impedance adapter, just an extension cable that kicks it into AUX mode. Thank you for pointing it out. I'll make a note of it for the next time when I decide to describe my personal setup.


----------



## Surrealsky

RomStar said:


> Oh kz... You know I love me some audio and all, but I have no clue what to make of those bold statements.....
> 
> I guess Its another cryptic way of making me buy dozens of iems even though I have enough, and so the cycle continues ..



 Haha we are all doomed


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> …  I'd rather put that money on something that's a significant upgrade (such as the iBasso IT01).


I think you'd really like them. You can see from the list which IEMs I have here. I have no idea how you can see the list I stuck in my profile but you've been around enough I'd bet you know how. Back to the subject… I own about a half dozen or so $100+ and there is just something about how the iBasso IT01 sound. I think they have the most coherent sound across the entire spectrum of all the 'expensive' IEMs I own. Some are better in certain aspects but I don't think I'd say any is obviously better in a general sense than them. Be warned though it really did take me about 200 hours of burn-in to get the mids to come to play and move forward. They were recessed at 100 and 150 hours. Not badly but enough that I was unhappy considering how much eve.ryone on their thread was saying. So I just muttered and grumbled and stuck them on a player for 2 days (to get to 150) then again to get to the magic 200.


----------



## CoiL

Stop that talk about IT01.... I want them so badly!!! ;(



stryed said:


> Same thoughts here against the KZ5v2. However the KZ5 is still listenable after owning the IT01 (*has better soundstage imo*), but not as enjoyable. I still use both daily (KZ5 while commuting).


Just to be sure I got it right - IT01 has better soundstage than ZS5 ?


----------



## Duncan

Slater said:


> The latter pair.
> 
> BTW, the newest IEMs have the "@qq" email address. None of my ZS6s do (including 2 bought in December), but interestingly the ZSR does. All of my ZS6 sound the same.
> 
> So perhaps the rumors of a revised ZS6 are indeed true. I just don't know if I want to spend another $40 to find out that it's just a minor side grade, when I already own numerous pairs of ZS6. I'd rather put that money on something that's a significant upgrade (such as the iBasso IT01).


 I'm intrigued by the IT01 with all this talk, however, the ZS6(ii) sound quite sublime with the MandarinES tips, so I'm wondering if for me / my preferences, the iBasso would be a downgrade!?

And, yes, the "QQ" pair are the better ones imo


----------



## CoiL (Feb 21, 2018)

> Ok, I just broke down and just ordered it...
> I hope the hype is true and it can provide me upgrade over ZS5v1 paired with iBasso DX5X.



off from KZ train and jumped onto iBasso IT01 train... will keep You updated.
I think after IT01 I will be done for long time. Will it be IT01 or ZS5v1 that I like more, dunno, either way I think I have found near-perfect sound signature and SQ for my taste, gear and music.
Time to just sit back and ENJOY MUSIC! 

...and sometimes read head-fi (though this one is from devil! ;D)


----------



## nxnje

I just don't wanna be rudd but.. you're comparing a kz zs6 with a pair of iem that costs like 4 times its price.. the ibasso is one of the most common iems around the 100bucks price tag.
I mean, not every 100$ iem does a better job than a zs6/zs5v1, but in this case, i think the comparison doesn't stand on his feet..



bsoplinger said:


> My super quick take on the iBasso IT01 vs the KZ VS6(i). No comparison. Easy to tell the $100 product from the $25 (what I paid) one. Smoother sound across the board. No spikes in frequency response especially not in the highs. Controlled bass and sub bass if perhaps a slight amount less. Not saying that the ZS6 is bad. But the IT01 is just much better.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> True, but unfortunately there's not enough room for a damper. The nozzle of the BA driver is almost directly against the mesh screen.
> 
> Also, the KZ hard case can be ordered from a number of sources for a little over $1, providing the exact same foam I used (as well as giving an excellent case to store the ZST in). And if one trims the foam using the word HIFI as a guide (which is a consistent measuring guide between all of our ZSTs), then the results will basically be the same as mine (or at least very very close).


Well bro.....armature driver ages like dynamic burns.....and this age is a proven physical fact.

Put white noise on 50% source vol and let them age for 100hrs.


See differences

KZ zs6 super treble became a lot smoother.

Every BA age to a specific time on white noise..

After that specific time, they settle down.

But it only happen with white noise.

And please run on volumes lower than 50% and the source shouldn't be powerful.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

IT01 sounds rounder on soundstage with more space given to instruments.....otherwise I didn't like the bass decay and sound response.

Neither I like zs6.....absolute hate till they age.....mine took 20days on cheap mp3 player running white noise on loop( my ager and burner...Philips go gear raga)

Well got zsr and they are good, well done


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> I just don't know if I want to spend another $40 to find out that it's just a minor side grade, when I already own numerous pairs of ZS6. I'd rather put that money on something that's a significant upgrade (such as the iBasso IT01).


The AAW Nebula One is still on sale for $37 (reduced from $113):

https://www.null-audio.com/collecti...ticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor

I have two now.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@Willber 

My lost brother..........
Thaaaaaaanks

Bro for life


----------



## maxxevv

Interesting that you suggest White Noise. Almost everybody else suggests Pink Noise instead.  

Personal experience with the ZS6 on Pink Noise is that it settles down (to my ears at least ) after about 10 hours at about 10~20% higher volume than what I'm comfortable listening to, plugged into my computer soundcard.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

White noise on lower volume....
Pink noise isn't dangerous but age and burn time is slow.

Whit noise does it at half volume of what pink noise does....and that too 2x faster.

Just make sure white noise has to be on low volume


----------



## barocka (Feb 21, 2018)

CoiL said:


> off from KZ train and jumped onto iBasso IT01 train... will keep You updated.
> I think after IT01 I will be done for long time. Will it be IT01 or ZS5v1 that I like more, dunno, either way I think I have found near-perfect sound signature and SQ for my taste, gear and music.
> Time to just sit back and ENJOY MUSIC!
> 
> ...and sometimes read head-fi (though this one is from devil! ;D)



you can be sure.  We are on the same road.  I like my ZS5 v1, but I like my IT01 more


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> Stop that talk about IT01.... I want them so badly!!! ;(
> Just to be sure I got it right - IT01 has better soundstage than ZS5 ?





nxnje said:


> I just don't wanna be rudd but.. you're comparing a kz zs6 with a pair of iem that costs like 4 times its price.. the ibasso is one of the most common iems around the 100bucks price tag.
> I mean, not every 100$ iem does a better job than a zs6/zs5v1, but in this case, i think the comparison doesn't stand on his feet..


Because of the heightened treble response the soundstage of either the ZS5 (ii) or ZS6 (i) can sound wider than the IT01. Unnaturally so to my ears. 

As far as comparing… I would have never thought to make such a comparison for just the reason you site, a 4x (in terms of real world prices) more expensive item. However I was responding to at least one person saying that the ZS6 sounded better than the IT01. Since a number of the folks here follow other threads including the under $100 Chi-Fi thread and the iBasso IT01 thread I can't tell you for certain which thread the comments appeared on. But this seemed the better choice for my comments. I do like the ZS6. I just like the IT01 more


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 21, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> You can see from the list which IEMs I have here. I have no idea how you can see the list I stuck in my profile but you've been around enough I'd bet you know how



All you do to see someones profile is to click on their name or avatar.  A little box will pop up with basic info but there will be a place where it says Profile Page.  Click on that.   BTW, I wish everyone would fill out their profile info.  Headfi does strongly suggest that.  It helps a lot when answering questions.  Also it prevents someone from asking you to compare things that you don't have...if of course they have looked at the profile.  I look at  profiles and am disappointed when it has  not been filled out.



bsoplinger said:


> I do like the ZS6. I just like the IT01 more



Stop making me want this!  What if it made all my others redundant.  Then what would I do?


----------



## Mellowship

fredhubbard2 said:


> how easy are the memory wires to cut off?


Very easy but not care free.
The way I do it:
1. Score the sleeve at about 1/3 of an inch from the plug with a xacto knife. Don't cut through it, because you don't wanna damage the wire. Just a score with low pressure around the sleeve.

2. With a small scissor (I use a dissecting one), start at the end of the sleeve, cutting carefully along the metal guide that's inside the sleeve. 

3. When you get to the cut you scored next to the plug, stop cutting and start striping off the sleeve along the scoring.

4. Hold the plug firmly with one hand and carefully pull the metal guide with some pliers.

5. Repeat on the other side.


----------



## Puggie

I've had the ZS6 for a few weeks now and I'm really liking them (for the money), I also bought the nebula-one mentioned above, also a nice sounding IEM, I'm struggling to find a comfortable earbud to go with them, the Comply comfort tips are comfy but seem to knock out too much treble for my liking. 

With the ZS6, I bought the KZ upgrade cable:






But find it makes the treble more harsh and sibilant, its a fairly subtle difference but noticable, anyone else found similar (a shame really as I really like the cable compared to the bundled non-mic version they came with).


----------



## fredhubbard2

Mellowship said:


> Very easy but not care free.
> The way I do it:
> 1. Score the sleeve at about 1/3 of an inch from the plug with a xacto knife. Don't cut through it, because you don't wanna damage the wire. Just a score with low pressure around the sleeve.
> 
> ...



hi cheers, yes worked it out and used a very sharp craft knife ... read early someone twisted the wires out so did that as I didn't have any pliers on me but yes , thankyou......all sorted now. feel much better all round.


----------



## bsoplinger

mbwilson111 said:


> … Stop making me want this!  What if it made all my others redundant.  Then what would I do?


I hear that if you start flying drones and Quadcopters you can spend lots on Chinese made products


----------



## mbwilson111

bsoplinger said:


> I hear that if you start flying drones and Quadcopters you can spend lots on Chinese made products



I hate spending money.


----------



## HungryPanda (Feb 21, 2018)

[/QUOTE]Stop making me want this!  What if it made all my others redundant.  Then what would I do?[/QUOTE]Yours for £89 at amp3 or amazon.co.uk


----------



## ivo001

maxxevv said:


> Interesting that you suggest White Noise. Almost everybody else suggests Pink Noise instead.
> 
> Personal experience with the ZS6 on Pink Noise is that it settles down (to my ears at least ) after about 10 hours at about 10~20% higher volume than what I'm comfortable listening to, plugged into my computer soundcard.



Because White Noise is awesome


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 21, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Yours for £89 atamp3 or amazon.co.uk



Amazon has one red/blue left.  I would want black.  £89 seems like more than it should be.  Others are paying $99 I think. I know I don't need it.

That would be more than twice as expensive as anything else I have...


----------



## CoiL (Feb 21, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Because of the heightened treble response the soundstage of either the ZS5 (ii) or ZS6 (i) can sound wider than the IT01. Unnaturally so to my ears.


Well, I have ZS5v1 (which isn`t so "harsh" @ highs) and I don`t find it "heightened in treble" with my gear and ears (I`m quite sensitive to treble btw and don`t like over-boosted or peaky highs).
Also, I`m more into frontal soundstage depth than width as I listen lot with speaker system and open-back headphones too and don`t like "in your headstage" imaging and presentation.
IT01 should be quite spot-on for me when looking at graphs compared to ZS5v1 which I really like.


mbwilson111 said:


> Amazon has one red/blue left.  I would want black.  £89 is more than it should be.  Others are paying $99 I think. I know I don't need it.


Take it from Penon  I got it for 93€ (82£ with shipping included).


----------



## mbwilson111

@CoiL  There is a very good chance I would be hit with VAT and customs fees with Penon.  Maybe £89 is safer.

I have used amp3 before and they have both color choices in stock and are in the UK


----------



## HungryPanda

In the drop down box you can pick black


----------



## HungryPanda

It is amp3 on amazon.co.uk


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Slater sir, your Mods have been done on my ZS3s.
Foam removed and Screen Mesh replaced.
Thank You, I do like the sound better now.

fun fact, the stock red mesh screens I took out are different from each other.
One has a criss-cross pattern throughout and the other is completely uniform throughout.


----------



## Slater

Willber said:


> The AAW Nebula One is still on sale for $37 (reduced from $113):
> 
> https://www.null-audio.com/collecti...ticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor
> 
> I have two now.



What's it sound like?


----------



## Willber (Feb 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> What's it sound like?


The Nebula One has a deeper soundstage, tighter bass, fuller mids, and more detail than the ZS6 without the sibilance. Overall a sweeter, smoother, more natural sound. In a word: Nebula One - Analogue; ZS6 - Digital. It's what I would expect from a $100 earphone.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> In the drop down box you can pick black



I think that because of all the hype in here someone was buying the black one as we were discussing it.  The drop down box was gone by the time I looked.  Besides the members who are participating in a thread, there are always more people lurking... like right now,  as I type this, 27 people are lurking in this thread.  Maybe they will all buy  one


----------



## stryed

CoiL said:


> Stop that talk about IT01.... I want them so badly!!! ;(
> 
> 
> Just to be sure I got it right - IT01 has better soundstage than ZS5 ?



Sorry that wasn't very clear. The KZ5 has a slightly larger soundstage but doesn't have the thickness in depth. Besides that, the IT01 is just a joy to listen to. I'd commute for it if I didn't really cherish it.

Just bought a whole bunch of wide bore tips à la KZ whirlwind/turbo from tenmark. A bit pricey but they have white and black colored ones too and a pouch! Added them to the KZ5 and one blue and red for my IT01 (pic on IT01 thread). 

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Tenn...le-Conseils-Set-couteurs-tui/32832433793.html


----------



## khighly

Did an extended listen with the ZS5 after ~2 weeks only with iBasso IT03. ZS5 has a fairly darker sound signature. ZS5 has a better soundstage. ZS5 has better sub & mid bass. I miss sub bass that moves air and can really reach into those lower frequencies. IT03 is much, much brighter than ZS5.

I did just pick up a ZSR and VE Monk Plus, should be here today (wonders of living in Seattle!).


----------



## bsoplinger (Feb 21, 2018)

Willber said:


> The AAW Nebula One is still on sale for $37 (reduced from $113):
> 
> https://www.null-audio.com/collecti...ticwerkes-nebula-one-universal-in-ear-monitor
> …


I ordered these about a week ago. They left LA 3 days ago to cross the continent to get to me in NY. Hopefully by Friday. I think they'll be an interesting listen.



stryed said:


> …
> Just bought a whole bunch of wide bore tips à la KZ whirlwind/turbo from tenmark. A bit pricey but they have white and black colored ones too and a pouch! Added them to the KZ5 and one blue and red for my IT01 (pic on IT01 thread).
> 
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Tenn...le-Conseils-Set-couteurs-tui/32832433793.html


I saw these when looking for an Amazon option for the KZ Whirlwind vs ordering from aliexpress.com even though I don't have any problem with ordering from China. Just sometimes it can be almost as inexpensive and no 3 week or more wait. Occasionally its even cheaper like the Hidizs AP60 MKII. $100 at Amazon with a $30 off coupon if you buy there $10 IE800 clones (think I have the model correct, the ceramic shell ones). $130 at Penon and Ali. $10 for that box of tips. And the box looks to be a bit roomier than the 'standard' cheap round or square case so a nice bonus:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0787VLNBG


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 21, 2018)

khighly said:


> Did an extended listen with the ZS5 after ~2 weeks only with iBasso IT03. ZS5 has a fairly darker sound signature. ZS5 has a better soundstage. ZS5 has better sub & mid bass. I miss sub bass that moves air and can really reach into those lower frequencies. IT03 is much, much brighter than ZS5.
> 
> I did just pick up a ZSR and VE Monk Plus, should be here today (wonders of living in Seattle!).



And therefore....

khighly will be the first head-fi'er to do the long awaited comparison between the IT03 and ZSR. 

Let's face it, it was inevitable.



 

 



Of course I've already got my upgrade 2-pin cable waiting in the wings. 

Nice of me to volunteer your ears and time, though......shameless...tsk, tsk.


----------



## TheVortex

Does the AAW Nebula one have a discount code or is just discounted on the website?

Also what is the name of that super cheap IEM that is on Amazon that has a name like Uii or similar which you guys seem to recommend? There are so many pages I don't know where to start.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Saoshyant

TheVortex said:


> Does the AAW Nebula one have a discount code or is just discounted on the website?
> 
> Also what is the name of that super cheap IEM that is on Amazon that has a name like Uii or similar which you guys seem to recommend? There are so many pages I don't know where to start.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


https://smile.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07413X964/ is most likely the one.  And as far as the AAW goes, I didn't need a code for the discount for a different model, so it should be the same.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 21, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> Also what is the name of that super cheap IEM that is on Amazon that has a name like Uii or similar which you guys seem to recommend? There are so many pages I don't know where to start.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Uiisii CM5

I got mine on Amazon UK when they did their first lightning deal on them.


----------



## Willber

Saoshyant said:


> https://smile.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07413X964/ is most likely the one.  And as far as the AAW goes, I didn't need a code for the discount for a different model, so it should be the same.


Correct and correct.


----------



## stryed

bsoplinger said:


> I ordered these about a week ago. They left LA 3 days ago to cross the continent to get to me in NY. Hopefully by Friday. I think they'll be an interesting listen.
> 
> 
> I saw these when looking for an Amazon option for the KZ Whirlwind vs ordering from aliexpress.com even though I don't have any problem with ordering from China. Just sometimes it can be almost as inexpensive and no 3 week or more wait. Occasionally its even cheaper like the Hidizs AP60 MKII. $100 at Amazon with a $30 off coupon if you buy there $10 IE800 clones (think I have the model correct, the ceramic shell ones). $130 at Penon and Ali. $10 for that box of tips. And the box looks to be a bit roomier than the 'standard' cheap round or square case so a nice bonus:
> ...



Shipping is cheaper with aliexpress but with prime I'd go for amazon(.fr). The box is inddeed very well made compared to the standard red boxes that come with many IEMs from China.


----------



## stryed

khighly said:


> Did an extended listen with the ZS5 after ~2 weeks only with iBasso IT03. ZS5 has a fairly darker sound signature. ZS5 has a better soundstage. ZS5 has better sub & mid bass. I miss sub bass that moves air and can really reach into those lower frequencies. IT03 is much, much brighter than ZS5.
> 
> I did just pick up a ZSR and VE Monk Plus, should be here today (wonders of living in Seattle!).



I find it very odd that you find that the IT03 doesn't have better sub & mid bass than the KZ5. 
My IT01 has way better sub bass than the KZ5 and according to many review the IT03's bass is its strong suit.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> Does the AAW Nebula one have a discount code or is just discounted on the website?
> 
> Also what is the name of that super cheap IEM that is on Amazon that has a name like Uii or similar which you guys seem to recommend? There are so many pages I don't know where to start.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



UiiSii CM5


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Uiisii CM5
> 
> I got mine on Amazon UK when they did their first lightning deal on them.



How do you like them, especially compared to some of your other favorite IEMs?


----------



## Slater (Feb 21, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I ordered these about a week ago. They left LA 3 days ago to cross the continent to get to me in NY. Hopefully by Friday. I think they'll be an interesting listen.
> 
> 
> I saw these when looking for an Amazon option for the KZ Whirlwind vs ordering from aliexpress.com even though I don't have any problem with ordering from China. Just sometimes it can be almost as inexpensive and no 3 week or more wait. Occasionally its even cheaper like the Hidizs AP60 MKII. $100 at Amazon with a $30 off coupon if you buy there $10 IE800 clones (think I have the model correct, the ceramic shell ones). $130 at Penon and Ali. $10 for that box of tips. And the box looks to be a bit roomier than the 'standard' cheap round or square case so a nice bonus:
> ...



Yeah, mine just arrived today. Although I got the same set on Aliexpress but without the case. I was cheaper by a few dollars, and I already have plenty of cases.

I’m going to do some torture testing of the Tennmak tips tonight - taking them on and off a couple of IEMs - to see how well they hold up compared to the overly-fragile KZ whirlwinds.

Hopefully the Tennmak whirlwinds don’t tear when you breathe on them wrong  like the KZs.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> The latter pair.
> 
> BTW, the newest IEMs have the "@qq" email address. None of my ZS6s do (including 2 bought in December), but interestingly the ZSR does. All of my ZS6 sound the same.
> 
> So perhaps the rumors of a revised ZS6 are indeed true. I just don't know if I want to spend another $40 to find out that it's just a minor side grade, when I already own numerous pairs of ZS6. I'd rather put that money on something that's a significant upgrade (such as the iBasso IT01).


I have the ZS6  on order. Will compare to reviews.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 21, 2018)

stryed said:


> I find it very odd that you find that the IT03 doesn't have better sub & mid bass than the KZ5.
> My IT01 has way better sub bass than the KZ5 and according to many review the IT03's bass is its strong suit.




The 8ohm impedance may be a factor (various sources).

Specification

Model : IT03
Type ：Triple driver hybrid
Driver: Dynamic driver (9.2mm) x 1 , Balanced Armature x 2
Freq. Response: 10Hz-30kHz
Sensitivity: 105+/-2dB
Impedance: 8 ohm
Noise Attenuation: -30dB
Rated Power: 5mW
T.H.D: <1% (at 1kHz /1mW)
Plug Size: 3.5mm gold-plated
Cord Length: 1.2m
Weight: 9g without cable
$259 (USD)

Sonickarma review notes:
"Cons - Need a decent source synergy"

"DAP Parings:
I used the Cowon Plenue S and the Lotto Paw Gold Titanium Edition
For me the Lotto Paw Gold has the best synergy with the IT03 and it really felt like they were tuned for each other. Tracks were energetic and full of emotion, the full range had good coherence with excellent detail. With the Cowon Plenue S everything felt too weak and soul less, bass lost all its magic textures. This goes to show the importance of source synergy as they could greatly vary."


----------



## Otto Motor

CoiL said:


> Well, I have ZS5v1 (which isn`t so "harsh" @ highs) and I don`t find it "heightened in treble" with my gear and ears (I`m quite sensitive to treble btw and don`t like over-boosted or peaky highs).


I have to admit that the ZS5v1 are technically better than the Urbanfun Hifi and Focal Spark...the ZS5 have a much better instrument separation [I keep on testing]. In fact, its technical capability for the price is excellent and nothing is really annoying or totally wrong (such as the 10K peak in the ZS6). The rest, as you pointed out, comes down to taste/personal preference. 

What I don't understand is that KZ produced a v2 that is not as good as v1.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> What I don't understand is that KZ produced a v2 that is not as good as v1.



Probably had to do with the idiotic thinking that they were loading it with fake drivers, so to save face they modified it at the detriment of sound quality.


----------



## NeonHD

Good news, guys! I just received my QKZ DM7 today, or—as we KZ fans would call it—the legendary KZ ED10. I'm pretty sure that internally and externally they are exactly the same as the ED10, but just given a different name under a different brand.











*SO MY FIRST IMPRESSIONS (OH BOY!!!!):
*
The first thing I noticed is 
*
DAT 

BASS!!!!!!

OMG!!!!!!! 





*
WHAT DID THEY EVEN PUT IN THERE?!?!?!?! It's as if I LITERALLY have a subwoofer stuffed right into my ears!!!!! But for real, that sub-bass is an absolute monster and is able to strike the lowest frequencies that I could possibly even hear/feel. For example, listening to Skrillex's Scary Monster and Nice Sprites really gave me the goosebumps from all that visceral bass! It even tickled my ears a bit from all that rumble hehe. What's best is that the bass isn't even overdone, it has a very respectable amount of sub-bass and mid-bass without being slow or muddy or ever leaking into the low-mids. It has quite a quick delay, accompany that with the powerful sub-bass and it makes for a very punchy bass response. So overall a very well defined bass. Definitely hands down the most potent bass response I've ever heard from an IEM  

The next thing I noticed aside from DAT BASS is the incredibly crisp and clear treble that it outputs. While not being too detailed or extended or anything like that, it does its job without ever sounding sibilant or piercing. 

I've also heard from some people that these have great mids, and to which I wholeheartedly agree. Unlike my KZ ED9, whose mids were really pushed back into the mix, these mids from the ED10 were noticeably more upfront, especially in terms of low-mids. It's only during songs that have too much emphasis on bass and treble that the mids starts falling back into the mix, which is not a surprise. The clear mids alongside with the potent yet controlled bass really helps give your music a lot of body and weight. 

So to summarize, I believe these IEMs have a very well defined sound. Everything is kept within its limits so that neither set of frequencies dominate each other, yet no set of frequencies are recessed either. Lows, mids and highs are all emphasized yet controlled, making for a very *very VERY *fun sound especially if what you're listening to is EDM. As you could tell, I've never gotten so excited from an IEM for quite a long time , that's how amazing the ED10 is.

EXTRA THOUGHTS:

DAT PAINT JOB THO!!!!! The chrome-plated finish really gives these IEMs a very premium feel, which of course makes me feel even more good when listening to them.
The only positive thing about the rebranding is that the cable from QKZ is MILES BETTER than KZ's same old gut-like cable. You can tell the excellent quality of this cable from how thick it is.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Probably had to do with the idiotic thinking that they were loading it with fake drivers, so to save face they modified it at the detriment of sound quality.



Yup.

That and raising the impedance for wider compatibility, because many negative reviews and complaints were due to poor source matching/impedance mismatches.


----------



## Slater (Feb 21, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> Good news, guys! I just received my QKZ DM7 today, or—as we KZ fans would call it—the legendary KZ ED10. I'm pretty sure that internally and externally they are exactly the same as the ED10, but just given a different name under a different brand.



These use PEK (PEEK) diaphragms, which usually have very good bass and fast response, due to the thinness and lightness of the material. The ED9 also used a PEK diaphragm, which says a lot.

I thought these were supposedly 2 separate IEMs (with different sound), despite looking very similar?

The ED10 was reported to sound much better than the DM7. So if you're saying the DM7 sound pretty good, that means that the ED10 must sound REALLY good.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> The ED10 was reported to sound much better than the DM7. So if you're saying the DM7 sound pretty good, that means that the ED10 must sound REALLY good.


ED10 rebranded as QKZ DM7. Are there any other discontinued KZ models available as rebrands? I'd like to get my hands on the *KZ DT5.*


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 21, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> Good news, guys! I just received my QKZ DM7 today, or—as we KZ fans would call it—the legendary KZ ED10. I'm pretty sure that internally and externally they are exactly the same as the ED10, but just given a different name under a different brand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't need my glasses to read your excitement!


----------



## B9Scrambler (Feb 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> These use PEK (PEEK) diaphragms, which usually have very good bass and fast response, due to the thinness and lightness of the material. The ED9 also used a PEK diaphragm, which says a lot.
> 
> I thought these were supposedly 2 separate IEMs (with different sound), despite looking very similar?
> 
> The ED10 was reported to sound much better than the DM7. So if you're saying the DM7 sound pretty good, that means that the ED10 must sound REALLY good.



I had both the ED10 and DM7 at the same time and they were not the same, at all. Tried another Head-fi'ers DM7, which also did not match the ED10's sig. DM7 was much warmer and bassier without the treble emphasis or extension. ED10 was basically a bassier ED9 with the gold filters installed and tighter treble. Vastly superior to the DM7 imo.

Edit: 'cept for the cable. The DM7's cable is really similar to that on the old ClarityOne EB110 but with proper strain relief. Big improvement over the thin noddle KZ saddled the ED10 with.


----------



## Slater (Feb 21, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> ED10 rebranded as QKZ DM7. Are there any other discontinued KZ models available as rebrands? I'd like to get my hands on the *KZ DT5.*



Nah, DT5 is loooong gone. That's some old school KZ, like the micro ring and ANV. Only way you're gonna get one of those old school KZs is buying it from another member/collector.

As far as ED10 vs DM7, they aren't always straight rebrands when sold as QKZ.

As @B9Scrambler states above, they are indeed different and the ED10 is vastly superior. I thought I remembered reading this before, because I too was interested in the DM7 (thinking it was a straight up rebrand of the ED10). I decided against it after reading it wasn't near as good as the ED10.

My bet is that KZ reused the same ED10 housing, but threw in a run-of-the-mill low end PET driver in order to meet the low QKZ price point.

One good thing is that it uses a 10mm driver, which would be easy to swap out to a better driver (such as a nice 10mm graphene). I'm sure the nice ergonomic solid metal DM7 housing would provide a good platform as a modding foundation.

_Update: For $5.25 shipped, I went ahead and ordered a pair despite my better judgement. My experience with QKZ in general has been less than stellar. If they suck I can always reuse the shells (in which case $5.25 is a bargain for a nice metal shell)._


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> …
> I’m going to do some torture testing of the Tennmak tips tonight - taking them on and off a couple of IEMs - to see how well they hold up compared to the overly-fragile KZ whirlwinds.
> 
> Hopefully the Tennmak whirlwinds don’t tear when you breathe on them wrong  like the KZs.



I'd be interested to hear what you think of them compared to the KZ ones. Not as cheap as buying KZ from Ali but not that expensive and the case did look decent. That's why I shared the link here, they seemed to be a reasonable alternative. 



NeonHD said:


> Good news, guys! I just received my QKZ DM7 today, or—as we KZ fans would call it—the legendary KZ ED10. I'm pretty sure that internally and externally they are exactly the same as the ED10, but just given a different name under a different brand…


Did you blow the extra buck to get the special edition gold plated housing or just get the regular $6.50 ones?


----------



## Slater (Feb 21, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Did you blow the extra buck to get the special edition gold plated housing or just get the regular $6.50 ones?



I can't find any actual photos of the "gold plated housing", so I think that's just some BS the sellers made up.

If you have any photos of the gold plated housing (assuming it actually exists), I'd love to see what they look like.

I just assumed the "gold plating" they were talking about was the "M" in the rear face plate, which all of the DM7s have.


----------



## khighly (Feb 21, 2018)

stryed said:


> I find it very odd that you find that the IT03 doesn't have better sub & mid bass than the KZ5.
> My IT01 has way better sub bass than the KZ5 and according to many review the IT03's bass is its strong suit.



What I think you're experiencing here is reviews by a niche market of older guys smoking tobacco out of their gold plated pipes while enjoying the Caribbean ocean breeze that gently tickles their face as the solid state pre-amplifiers gently hum in the background. Although that hum in the background is there, the sound and reality itself is entirely blocked out by their $2899 42 driver Campfire Audio IEM's.

Anyway, I think what's happening is a niche market of people who absolutely hate bass and only listen to Etymotic type IEM's is reviewing them. Not a lot of people 1. are looking for them 2. are paying $259 for them. You also then have "I can't leave a bad review because it's $259 and I'll never get a review product AGAIN!". Those same people also have never put cheap plebian IEM's like KZ in their ears for fear it would drop their social class. It wouldn't surprise me if the IT01's were more bass heavy than the IT03's. The IT03's bass is definitely there and reaches fairly low, but it's a neutral bass...it fits, but is nothing miraculous. I don't consider the bass on the IT03 anything to remember or really awe at. I can say it's adequate, but the ZS5 is _at least_ 2-3dB higher and really moves air. ZS5 is punchy, IT03 bass is dare I say...lame? It's not a seal issue.

Edit: everything except the last few sentences was sarcasm (maybe).


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> The ED10 was reported to sound much better than the DM7. So if you're saying the DM7 sound pretty good, that means that the ED10 must sound REALLY good.



Well from what I've read the earphones sounded identically the same across other users. If it's not the same driver, then I bet both sound nearly as good.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Puggie said:


> I'm struggling to find a comfortable earbud to go with them, the Comply comfort tips are comfy but seem to knock out too much treble for my liking.


I've received Comply tips today and can compare them with spinfit. Spinfit is much better in all aspects, including the fit and the frequencies. I will buy spinfits for all my EIMs. The first time when I bought the spinfit tips I was not impressed as I chose the wrong size. Now I have a large size and I am more than satisfied.


----------



## Willber

Slater said:


> One good thing is that it uses a 10mm driver, which would be easy to swap out to a better driver (such as a nice 10mm graphene). I'm sure the nice ergonomic solid metal DM7 housing would provide a good platform as a modding foundation.


The CM5 uses a 10mm graphene twin-diaphragm driver, apparently.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> What I think you're experiencing here is reviews by a niche market of older guys smoking tobacco out of their gold plated pipes while enjoying the Caribbean ocean breeze that gently tickles their face as the solid state pre-amplifiers gently hum in the background. Although that hum in the background is there, the sound and reality itself is entirely blocked out by their $2899 42 driver Campfire Audio IEM's.



haha, I just spit my Dalmore 62 Single Highland Malt Scotch out my nose. Your posts are always entertaining @khighly


----------



## Slater (Feb 21, 2018)

Willber said:


> The CM5 uses a 10mm graphene twin-diaphragm driver, apparently.



You are correct sir.

The same CM5 that I recently paid $8.99 for as a spare set with the intent of pulling the drivers for modding.

Dun dun duuuun!


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> I can't find any actual photos of the "gold plated housing", so I think that's just some BS the sellers made up.
> 
> If you have any photos of the gold plated housing (assuming it actually exists), I'd love to see what they look like.
> 
> I just assumed the "gold plating" they were talking about was the "M" in the rear face plate, which all of the DM7s have.


I looked at the pictures of the 2 different models on the various QKZ pages, the regular and the special gold plated and the only difference that I noticed is that the regular ones didn't have the picture showing the back of the housings with the big gold M as you mention. Otherwise they looked like the same pictures. That's why I was curious. I was thinking that perhaps the special edition would have a gold plated jack or something. But then I'd look at the description where it says housing and look at the pics again and just shake my head. Not that its a big deal to spend $7.50 instead of $6.50 it was just the intrinsic humor of the 'difference.'


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> _Update: For $5.25 shipped, I went ahead and ordered a pair despite my better judgement. My experience with QKZ in general has been less than stellar. If they suck I can always reuse the shells (in which case $5.25 is a bargain for a nice metal shell)._



I had ordered the Plextone/QKZ 41M and 36M in November 2016 (they arrived in Canada in April 2017). "M" stands for magnetic. I think they still had "Plextone" written on them. Both were in the $5-6 range. 

The 41M are very pleasant sounding and very well built earphones with decent mids that lack a bit of punch. The rather rare 36M were the same with a monster bass added (and a slightly different shape). Great models adding to a new earphone collection.

How do you reuse the shells?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 21, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> ED10 rebranded as QKZ DM7. Are there any other discontinued KZ models available as rebrands? I'd like to get my hands on the *KZ DT5.*




KZ DT5 Review from early 2016:


Spoiler



This is my fifth pair of KZ in-ear monitors. I bought these because they have dual drivers. One driver for the highs & mids and the second driver for the bass. I am not a basshead. Just wanted to try my first dual driver earphone and at $12 I couldn't resist. Dual driver earphones (in early 2016) usually run over $100 a pair.

About me:

I tend to prefer a relatively neutral sound signature with a slight emphasis in both bass and treble, which is basically a mild "V" shaped sound signature. I find that an absolute neutral sound signature usually lacks enough energy for the genres I enjoy most, which are Classic Trance and Progressive (early Tiesto, Markus Schulz, Otello, DT8 Project), Chill Out, Breakbeat (Hybrid & Burufunk Remixes) and 80's & 90's (New Order, Secession, The Cure, Siouxie & The Banshees, Depeche Mode). Sure I listen to Shania Twain, Sade, Bach, Ella Fitzgerald and everything in between, but as of late the bulk of my listening pleasure is focused on the aforementioned genres.

About IEMs:

Take note when you read IEM reviews that when the reviewer gives his/her opinion regarding the sound that there are many factors that shape the final sound an IEM delivers to one's ear.

Those factors include:
1 - Shape and size of the reviewer's ear canals. (shallow/deep, wide/narrow)
2 - Shape and size of the eartips. (round/cone, single/double/triple flange, proper fit)
3 - Materials of the eartips (silicone/foam)
4 - Shape of the IEM (and/or angle of the nozzle) can cause fitment issues for some.
5 - Source (quality of smartphone, laptop, digital audio player) amplified/unamplified.
6 - The IEM itself (driver flex possible due to trapping air in canal causing muffled sound.
and finally
7 - The Reviewers ability to hear all frequency ranges (age plays a factor).

Most consumers are unaware of how much weight each of these factors hold in rendering a final verdict. This is why there is such a wide variance in not only ratings, but the description of an IEMs sound. An unaware consumer purchases a perfectly fine IEM but has difficulty keeping the IEM in the ear or does not satisfactorily seal the ear canal with the included silicone eartips (this has happened to me on numerous occasions) and summarily dismisses the IEM as sub par. Another consumer purchases the same IEM but experiences a perfect fit and seal and has nothing but praise for the same IEM. Sealing the ear canals when using IEMs is the determining factor to render a valid verdict. I can think of no audio equipment that is subjected to such praise or ridicule as the in-ear monitor. When it comes to IEMs, in particular an IEMs eartips, there is no one-size-fits-all.

-Materials (silicone or foam) have different damping effects on the frequency ranges in the music.
-The shape of the eartips (olive-shaped, cone-shaped and other-shaped) can have different damping effects on the music based on how much space is between the IEM nozzle and your eardrum and how well the eartip has sealed the ear canal.
-The aperture of the eartip's opening (wide-bore/narrow-bore) will have damping effects on the frequency ranges of the music.

The easiest way for you to experience the different effects I am discussing is to take your current on-ear earphones or over-ear earphones, pick a song full of energy, put the earphones on and let them sit naturally over/on your ears. Listen to them for two minutes. After two minutes, using your hands, slightly press the headphones closer to your eardrums. Notice the change in the sound. Is there more/less bass? Is there more/less treble? Did the vocals slightly slip forward/back?

Consider that on-ear and over-ear headphones have a driver that sits approximately 1 1/2 inches to 2 inches from your eardrums and by pressing the headphones 1/4" closer to your eardrums the sound changed. Now consider that an IEM sits anywhere from 3/4" to 1/4" from your eardrums and the slightest changes (angle, depth, shape, material) can have up to three times the effect due to the proximity of the IEM to the eardrum.

For this reason, I think it is wise to invest a nominal dollar amount on different eartips to get everything the earphone tuners intended. Personally, I think anything less is folly. Some IEM manufacturers supply multiple sizes (S,M & L) and materials (silicone & foam) of eartips to increase the odds that the consumer achieves a satisfactory seal, but even this is not foolproof. If this holds any interest for you some aftermarket brands to look into are "JVC Spiral Dots", "Comply Foam Eartips" or "Znari Foam Eartips", "Creative Aurvana" and others.

The Knowledge Zenith DT5:

The highs are clear, the mids are relatively centered and the bass is prominent. As I mentioned, I am not a basshead and these seem to be tuned for bassheads. The bass is more punchy than I prefer, but it is a lot of fun when I'm in the mood for it. I got around the big bass by trying different eartips. When I got a perfect seal with silicone eartips the bass was extra punchy. When I switched to my comply foam tips the sound changed noticeably. The bass was tamed and the soundstage opened up. Previously, I didn't notice the soundstage because I was overwhelmed by the bass. If you look closely at the back of these you will notice that they have ports (they are vented). This is good for the movement of air with regards to bass response, but it contributes to the open soundstage as well.

I recently purchased the KZ ZS2 (dual driver iem) and I prefer the KZ DT5's. They don't sound as dark as the ZS2's.

The DT5 earphones are made of metal and are relatively heavy when compared to the wide variety of plastics used for most IEMs. I'm glad they are metal because they won't crack or break!

Getting a proper seal: insert the iem (with silicone bud) into your ear, then slightly reverse and pull outward until you feel a slight suction pressure. This means the chamber is sealed. If you do not get the suction pressure, then you do not have a proper seal and your music will sound tinny or thin.

Remember, the key to these or any in-ear monitors is to tip roll (try different tips until you get the sound you prefer). I swapped the tips off of my Rock Zircons and those fit perfectly. If you have in-ear monitors that don't work anymore, don't throw the tips away if they sealed well in the past. They just may be the perfect ingredient for these DT5's.

Finally, I ordered mine from KZ Headphones and got a free zipper case to store the earphones in. I'll post pictures at a later date.

♢♢♢ EDIT ♢♢♢

I've had these for several weeks, now, and I have spent more time testing and enjoying them. When I'm in the mood for it these are very pleasurable. I like the clarity of the mids and the highs, and yes I'd still choose these over the KZ ZS2.

These have a thicker bass than the KZ ED8, but I prefer the ED8's because the bass is cleaner; more articulate and when called upon it slams. On many bass-forward IEMs the bass usually bleeds into the vocals or mid-centered instruments. Not so with this dual driver DT5. The DT5 achieve mid-centered clarity by using separate drivers, so the muddiness in the vocals is kept to a minimum. The ED8 and DT5 both slam but sound different due to their different designs. I like them both.

Finally, I am not sure when Knowledge Zenith will stop production of this DT5. I purchased these on Amazon for $11, however, as these get increasingly difficult to get a hold of (or price gouging ensues) then you would be wise to purchase a set of the Winintone EB220 and the KZ ED9. Both the EB220 and the ED9 come with filters that you can swap. You read that correctly, the filters are swappable. Take the gold filters from the ED9, place them on the EB220 and be astonished. The bass slams hard, the mids & highs are clean and articulate, but the big step up would be the increased width and depth of the EB220 soundstage . 

Hope this was helpful.



Like Slater mentioned, you probably won't find these, but KZ has come a long way since the DT5 was released. Their newer crop of IEMs sound more refined. Having said that, I enjoy how cohesive the presentation is and how fatigue-free the sound signature is even if the soundstage is rather intimate.


----------



## chrispl0x

After ~2 weeks with my ZSTs, I think I can make some comparisons between em and the Kz6. 

The major thing I noticed is that the zs6's sibilance that everyone talks about is pretty prominent when compared with the ZSTs. I don't think it makes it sound worse than the ZSTs, but the difference is surely there. And if you listen to the Zs6s for a while, you get used to it. A physical difference between the two is the metal screen. The ZSTs have a thin cheap-feeling screen that is somewhat oversized for the iem's circumference in order to stay in place. It is really easy to bend and mess up if you are wanting to do some type of BA mods like I did. On the other hand, the Zs6's screen is better built; they have a thicker metal piece, with larger holes that make it easier to perform modifications to the BAs. 

Running both through the KZ silver-plated upgrade cable and a FiioQ1mark1>macbook produces a more prominent hiss with the Zs6s (15ohm) than the ZSTs(18ohm) at low gain. Not sure why this happens, and I would be very interested to get some info on this! To my ears, both IEMs get a slight improvement in sound quality when running them through the DAC/amp. 

Final thoughts: The ZSTs are the more 'comfortable' pair of the two KZs due to the infamous KZ6 sibilance. Both sound similar enough to me where I don't think I will be needing to get another KZ iem. Maybe I'm a noob, but music sounds preeetty much the same to me. The ZSTs, @ ~$20, are a great first IEM for people wanting to check out what KZ has to offer. The Kz6s build quality alone make them worth the money IMO, and they will always have a special place in my heart. 

OH YEAH! Last thing: I'm not a fan of the foam/cotton in the BAs mod for either iem. Maybe I put too much, but it always sounded muffled when I did it. Both pairs sound great without any modifications, and I think people should listen to them as they were intended for a few days before doing any mods.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> KZ DT5 Review from early 2016:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





DocHoliday said:


> KZ DT5 Review from early 2016:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


How do the DT5 compare to the EDR2, HDS3, and ED9...all of which I have and all of which are still available. I speculate, the three models cover the DT5 somewhat.


----------



## khighly

Unrelated to this thread, but on the topic of cheap audio...VE Monk Plus are quite kick ass for $3. They definitely hit above their price by far if you can stand earbuds.

Also! They're a lot better than ED12. Ha.


----------



## nkramer

monk.... actually have 2 on their way with all kinds of extra goodies (pads, etc...)


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## Slater (Feb 22, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> How do you reuse the shells?



Pop the shells apart, remove the stock drivers, install better drivers, put the shells back together.

It's definitely easier to do with full size headphones though (I reuse headphone shells all the time). IEMs are the same idea; just miniaturized.


----------



## chinmie

khighly said:


> Unrelated to this thread, but on the topic of cheap audio...VE Monk Plus are quite kick ass for $3. They definitely hit above their price by far if you can stand earbuds.
> 
> Also! They're a lot better than ED12. Ha.



Try the Vido or EMX500 next. To me they are much better value than the monk plus.


----------



## WalterTorino

chinmie said:


> Try the Vido or EMX500 next. To me they are much better value than the monk plus.


Agree. Vido was quite a surprise for me.


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## DocHoliday (Feb 22, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> How do the DT5 compare to the EDR2, HDS3, and ED9...all of which I have and all of which are still available. I speculate, the three models cover the DT5 somewhat.



I can tell you from memory that the soundstage alone sets the HDS3 apart from the DT5. The HDS3 was one of my early favorites from KZ. It also contributed to my interest in micro-drivers (6mm or smaller). 

To my ears:
The HDS3 requires adequate power to sound it's best.
The DT5 sounds box...ish compared to the HDS3 and ED9.
The EDR2 is the most neutral and cleanest sound signature (great but not my preference).
The ED9 is one of the best takes on a "V" sound signature for a sub-$50 IEM (great build, too).
I prefer the HDS3 to the ED9 due to better definition in the bass and soundstage width. 

I'll have to hunt down pics of my HDS3. I've not listened to them in months, but I am listening to them right now and can hear exactly why I enjoyed them so much. Though they are not perfect, they remain one of my all-time-favorite KZ's. I've been waiting for KZ to release a more refined version of the HDS3 and thus far the ZS6(i) came the closest, but the placement of the treble spike (10k), which is not a problem for me, meant it would not be a direct replacement. You can see from Headflux graph that the HDS3 spike was at approximately 7.5k and not 10k. Hakuzen's graph shows the ZS6(i) 10k treble with the more vivid and forward mids in the 2k -4k region as well.

HDS3





ZS6(i)


 

 I'm hoping the ZSR, which I just received, will oblige or perhaps the ZS6(ii). If the ZSR 2K - 4K region mimics the HDS3 and the treble emphasis is at 7.5k then I think we may have a direct replacement for the HDS3. If it turns out that either the ZSR or the ZS6(ii) sounds like a more refined HDS3 then I will purchase multiple sets. MULTIPLE!

Anyone who has the HDS3 and the ZS6(ii) or ZSR feel free to chime in with your thoughts.


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## CoiL

About ED10 - for me it was quite good sounding at first due to quite sparkly and detailed highs but soon realized that it has pretty strong V-shaped signature, which made me put them in drawer.
It even got "harsh" with highs in longer listening sessions, Even after cable change to little higher impedance it still stayed too "harsh" and V-shaped, with sucked-out mids for my taste.
If I listen them atm, then even ED9 fits me better despite little "splashy" and unnatural highs. I would take ATR/ATE/ED9 over ED10 atm.
I think those QKZs are different drivers or someone has new toy syndrome like I did with ED10.
JMSHO


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## Otto Motor (Feb 22, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The ED9 is one of the best takes on a "V" sound signature for a sub-$50 IEM (great build, too).


The jury is still out on the ED9. It has been catching dust for the last year but possibly wrongly so. I first followed every reviewer's recommendation and used them with the shiny "gold" filters that produced a big bass. The matte "bronze" filters were out of the question. But the ED9 were fatiguing to me, possibly a pushing mid-bass was the culprit - and they are really heavy.

One year later, and after appreciating the Tinaudio T2, I changed filters and find the matte ones appealing.

To be continued...


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## TheVortex

Slater said:


> UiiSii CM5



Thanks. Looks like it's £15.99 now. May wait before I purchase it.


----------



## Willber

TheVortex said:


> Thanks. Looks like it's £15.99 now. May wait before I purchase it.


£13.99 for the red one here, £14.99 for the others:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UiiSii-Earphones-Dynamic-Headphones-Graphene/dp/B07429P7VM?th=1

I haven't seen them cheaper over here but they are well worth it anyway IMO.


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## TheVortex

Willber said:


> £13.99 for the red one here, £14.99 for the others:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/UiiSii-Earphones-Dynamic-Headphones-Graphene/dp/B07429P7VM?th=1
> 
> I haven't seen them cheaper over here but they are well worth it anyway IMO.




What's the sound signature like and are they good as the KZ ZST or ES3 for example?


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## HUGO SILVA

Willber said:


> £13.99 for the red one here, £14.99 for the others:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/UiiSii-Earphones-Dynamic-Headphones-Graphene/dp/B07429P7VM?th=1
> 
> I haven't seen them cheaper over here but they are well worth it anyway IMO.


Does anyone have the UiiSii CM5? Could you compare it to KZ ZS6 and TIN T2? thank you.


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## Willber (Feb 22, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> What's the sound signature like and are they good as the KZ ZST or ES3 for example?


I don't have those (see my sig). They are not dissimilar to the ZS6 but better IMO. Less-piercing highs, deeper soundstage.


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## TheVortex

Looks like there is a £1.50 saving when you redeem the discount. But I don't have prime and the cheapest shipping is £3.99


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## Willber

TheVortex said:


> Looks like there is a £1.50 saving when you redeem the discount. But I don't have prime and the cheapest shipping is £3.99


Buy them from the US site, £12 including shipping to the UK:

https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-UiiSii-CM5-Headphones-Comfortable/dp/B07415PGTY


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## Otto Motor (Feb 22, 2018)

KZ ZSR have arrived. Nice and green and not too big. Good fit, included tips work well. First impression: significant progress in tonality! They sound open, airy, lively and have quite some shine and sparkle. Mids have presence. Dynamics are also good. And they are fun. In comparison to my ES3, ZS3, ZST, and ZS5 the sound of the ZSR lifts off the ground. On the downside, they may be a bit to much forward sounding for some, layering could be improved, and the bass could possibly a bit more focussed.

Overall, I am impressed and didn't expect this. Well done, KZ.

Now that's a deal at $24 CAD.

To be continued.

P.S. I think B9Scrambler's review characterizes the ZSR quite nicely.


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## DocHoliday (Feb 22, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> The jury is still out on the ED9. It has been catching dust for the last year but possibly wrongly so. I first followed every reviewer's recommendation and used them with the shiny "gold" filters that produced a big bass. The matte "bronze" filters were out of the question. But the ED9 were fatiguing to me, possibly a pushing mid-bass was the culprit - and they are really heavy.
> 
> One year later, and after appreciating the Tinaudio T2, I changed filters and find the matte ones appealing.
> 
> To be continued...



You are correct about the ED9 mid-bass. I diffuse it by wearing widebore (Whirlwind) eartips. The beautiful side effect is that the soundstage opens up nicely. Problem solved. 

As always, eartips can make or break an IEMs presentation.

Side note:
My ZSR arrived as well though I haven't listened yet.


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## bsoplinger (Feb 22, 2018)

The AAW Nebula One arrived in today's mail. Just had a quick listen before tossing them on the to-be-burned-in pile. I'll report more fully once they've got about 100 hours in if they are something good or special or especially bad, otherwise I probably won't say anything. Did take 10 minutes to roll through the ear tips provided to see if I could at least get a good seal and at least acceptable fit comfort wise. From that quick listen… Decent sub bass and bass, not quite enough to actually give the sensation of a rumble but close. No noticeable flabby bass or bad midrange creep. Highs seemed a bit subdued but nowhere near where I'd be saying thin or veiled. Nothing to report vocal wise, the pair of songs I played don't have good, let alone exceptional vocals so without a source really can't say anything. For the under $40 I've paid a more coherent sound than the hybrids in the $30-$50 range I have. See my profile for exactly which those are. Remember all this from just a quick listen so apply appropriate filters to the worth of the opinions expressed.


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## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> You are correct about the ED9 mid-bass. I diffuse it by wearing widebore (Whirlwind) eartips. The beautiful side effect is that the soundstage opens up nicely. Problem solved.


Where do you get the Whirlwind cheapest?


----------



## mbwilson111

I have recently seen Amazon UK lightning deals for the CM5 at £9.99.  Check each night to see if they are scheduled for the next day. A lightning deal lasts for 4 hours.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> KZ ZSR have arrived. Nice and green and not too big. Good fit, included tips work well. First impression: significant progress in tonality! They sound open, airy, lively and have quite some shine and sparkle. Mids have presence. Dynamics are also good. And they are fun. In comparison to my ES3, ZS3, ZST, and ZS5 the sound of the ZSR lifts off the ground. On the downside, they may be a bit to much forward sounding for some, *layering could be improved, and the bass could possibly a bit more focussed.*
> 
> Overall, I am impressed and didn't expect this. Well done, KZ.
> 
> ...



Glad you're enjoying them. Those are two areas imo are where the ZS6 is simply the better earphone, and why I say the ZSR is more of a side grade than an upgrade. Still the ZSR's more realistic tone and timbre and general coherence gives it the edge to my ears. This is a case where I'm willing to give up some technical competence since it's just more satisfying to listen to than the ZS6, in most cases.


----------



## bsoplinger

Otto Motor said:


> Where do you get the Whirlwind cheapest?


Just search on Aliexpress.com. Under $4 for 6 pair 2x S, M and L with e-packet shipping. Under $2 if can accept their slower standard shipping. I'd foolishly assume that getting them to Canada instead would be priced comparably but I'm not Canadian so don't know. I'd strongly recommend getting 2 sets so you have 4 pairs in each size because they are a bit easy to tear.


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## Otto Motor (Feb 22, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Just search on Aliexpress.com. Under $4 for 6 pair 2x S, M and L with e-packet shipping. Under $2 if can accept their slower standard shipping. I'd foolishly assume that getting them to Canada instead would be priced comparably but I'm not Canadian so don't know. I'd strongly recommend getting 2 sets so you have 4 pairs in each size because they are a bit easy to tear.


I have been using these: 13.5 mm, 4.5 mm bore, and have always been very happy with my 40 or so pairs:
https://goo.gl/HgCbQS


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## Slater (Feb 22, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I ordered these about a week ago. They left LA 3 days ago to cross the continent to get to me in NY. Hopefully by Friday. I think they'll be an interesting listen.
> 
> 
> I saw these when looking for an Amazon option for the KZ Whirlwind vs ordering from aliexpress.com even though I don't have any problem with ordering from China. Just sometimes it can be almost as inexpensive and no 3 week or more wait. Occasionally its even cheaper like the Hidizs AP60 MKII. $100 at Amazon with a $30 off coupon if you buy there $10 IE800 clones (think I have the model correct, the ceramic shell ones). $130 at Penon and Ali. $10 for that box of tips. And the box looks to be a bit roomier than the 'standard' cheap round or square case so a nice bonus:
> ...





Slater said:


> Yeah, mine just arrived today. Although I got the same set on Aliexpress but without the case. I was cheaper by a few dollars, and I already have plenty of cases.
> 
> I’m going to do some torture testing of the Tennmak tips tonight - taking them on and off a couple of IEMs - to see how well they hold up compared to the overly-fragile KZ whirlwinds.
> 
> Hopefully the Tennmak whirlwinds don’t tear when you breathe on them wrong  like the KZs.



Update on the KZ vs Tennmak Whirlwind/Turbo wide bore tips.

After installing on numerous IEMs, including some with very large bores, the Tennmak Whirlwind/Turbo tips have held up as good as new with zero tearing.

I was very rough with the tips - pulling, tugging, stretching, picking at the top edge, rolling them between my fingers - things that would have destroyed the KZ tips (as a brand new set of KZ tips can tear when simply removing them from an IEM on the very 1st try). The Tennmak tips passed with flying colors.

The Tennmak tips are identical to the KZ tips in shape and dimensions, but the Tennmak tips are made of a little softer silicone. Using a magnifying glass, I can also see that the Tennmak tips have a bit thicker reinforcement where the 'turbo fins' meet the edge of the core (where the KZ tips normally tear). The combination of the softer/more flexible silicone and the tiny bit of extra reinforcement is probably exactly why the Tennmak tips ddn't tear in my test.

One nice thing about the Tennmak tips when bought on aliexpress (NOT Amazon), is that you can specify ALL 1 color and size out of your (9) pair kit. So for example, all M clear/white tips. You cannot do this with the KZ tips, so when getting the KZ tips you end up with 2/3 of the tips unusable because they are the wrong size.

For example, if you wanted to obtain qty (9) pairs of M sized KZ tips, you would have to spend a total of about $12 on (9) full sets (plus you'd end up with a boat load of S and L tips). Compare that with the Tennmak kit, where you will be able to specify 9 pairs of M tips for a total of $8 (for the kit without the zippered case).

So the Tennmak tips are not only better quality (in my tests), but cost 25%+ less.

Here's a link to the Tennmak tips from the official Tennmak store: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TEN...d-ear-tip-earphone-accessory/32808506339.html

I will provide the disclaimer that I only torture tested 2 (out of 3) colors included in the Tennmak kit, and I only tested 2 (out of 3) sizes - the sizes I don't use so I wouldn't have cared if they tore. It's possible that I just got lucky and happened to have tested the 2 strongest Tennmak tips out of the 18 in my possession - it's possible some of the remaining 16 would have torn. So basically I can't guarantee that all Tennmak Whirlwind/Turbo tips will never tear (YMMV), but in my testing they kicked butt.

They have my seal of approval, and I know I won't be buying any more of the KZ Whirlwind/Turbo tips once my existing stock is depleted from tears.


----------



## zazaboy

Can anyone compare kz zsr against kz zs6 which had better mids and vocals and which is better and louder in general?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 23, 2018)

So far so good....



Very clean, clear and wide presentation.

I do miss the extra weight in the midrange that the ZS6 brings (via the sound-guide tube from the DD). To my ears it gives the ZS6(i) a more velvet-like presentation despite the treble emphasis. 




Thus far I'll postulate that the ZSR will be loved by those who lean more towards the BA's precision. I suppose I lean more towards the warmth and body of a DD. Because the ZS6 straddles that fence very, very well it remains my happy medium. So far I'd give the ZSR 4.5 out of 5 stars. 

Long live the ZS6!


----------



## zazaboy

So zs6 are better after all..


----------



## Wiljen

The more black Zsr pairs I see the less I like the looks of my green ones


----------



## Wiljen

zazaboy said:


> Can anyone compare kz zsr against kz zs6 which had better mids and vocals and which is better and louder in general?



Zsr has better mids as Zs6 is more V shaped.  Better is subjective in the overall question and louder is a function of amping and neither is markedly more sensitive than the other so both should be about the same.


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## DocHoliday (Feb 22, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> So zs6 are better after all..



Preference, grasshopper. Preference. 

The ZSR is an excellent IEM and at sub-$30 it will shame some higher-priced pretenders. Just give it some time for the impressions to roll in. Besides, these are just initial impressions. Let's see how things sit a few days hence.



The ability to own both the ZSR and the ZS6 (including upgrade cables) for less than $100 total speaks volumes.


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## Slater (Feb 22, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> So zs6 are better after all..



To some. But to others (especially those that are treble sensitive), they are too piercing and the ZSR is 'better'.

So as with most things, we all hear things differently, and thus have different likes/dislikes. No one knows what's better for you than you yourself. That's why the best thing you could possibly do is get both the ZSR and ZS6 and decide which one you like best. That's the only way to really know for sure.

There's people that LOVE the KZ ZS5 v1, and those that HATE it. Same goes for the MEMT X5. And the KZ ED9. And so on and so forth.

Also, very few people have heard the ZS6 v2 (if it indeed exists). Those that have claim they are a major step up from the original ZS6. So that has to be taken into consideration when people are comparing the ZS6 to other IEMs (ie which ZS6? and have they heard both ZS6? and would they like one ZS6 more than the other ZS6?).


----------



## zazaboy

Slater said:


> To some. But to others (especially those that are treble sensitive), they are too piercing and the ZSR is 'better'.
> 
> So as with most things, we all hear things differently, and thus have different likes/dislikes. No one knows what's better for you than you yourself. That's why the best thing you could possibly do is get both the ZSR and ZS6 and decide which one you like best. That's the only way to really know for sure.
> 
> ...



I have ordered kz zs6 hope I get v2


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Try removing in ear canal combing effect by adding ostry 200 tips on ZSR and see how it blows zs6 away.

Well our ear is like reverse horn, magnifying some weird mids and treble frequency(ear are optimised for well tuned speakers in a room.)

Kz zs6 9khz peak cannot be tweaked by ostry 200 teeth response correction, teeth means specific dips created looking like saw teeth, but zsr peak lies in 5 to 7khz which can be tweaked easily....plus some Random 2 to 4khz peak created by our ear is fixed too.

Some elevation of bass response.......without loosing tightness.

It will sound way bigger, deeper 

Its a guarantee


----------



## riffrafff

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Try removing in ear canal combing effect by adding ostry 200 tips on ZSR and see how it blows zs6 away.
> 
> Well our ear is like reverse horn, magnifying some weird mids and treble frequency(ear are optimised for well tuned speakers in a room.)
> 
> ...



Okay, I've read the Ostry ad copy before; maybe you can explain these "dental correction" and "tooth" references?  I'm thinking Google Translate has failed once again lol.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 22, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The ability to own both the ZSR and the ZS6 (including upgrade cables) for less than $100 total speaks volumes.



A word on the ZSR's/ZS5's etc. cables: absolutely nothing wrong with them. Nada. Zilch. They sound as good as it gets. And they are free. The silver "upgrade" cables [where is the upgrade?] have been downgrades in my case as they took away volume (higher impedance) and the useful remote.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@riffrafff 

well dental and tooth correction, is it dampens specific frequency creating dips, which looks like saw. And tooth correction is shaping sharp peak(created while damping or inherit inside the earphone itself) making flat


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Its like DeQ the IEM signature and makes peaky mountain to hilly range, flatter and consistent plus specific saw shape dental correction is dipping a specific frequency to correct our ear combing.

Well the first effect is good, second effect ain't that well because every ear is different.

But 200 effect is not that like 300, so it sounds very good.


----------



## riffrafff

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its like DeQ the IEM signature and makes peaky mountain to hilly range, flatter and consistent plus specific saw shape dental correction is dipping a specific frequency to correct our ear combing.
> 
> Well the first effect is good, second effect ain't that well because every ear is different.
> 
> But 200 effect is not that like 300, so it sounds very good.



Okay, cool.  Thanks for that info. I _thought_ that might be what they were alluding to.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 22, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> A word on the ZSR's/ZS5's etc. cables: absolutely nothing wrong with them. Nada. Zilch. They sound as good as it gets. And they are free. The silver "upgrade" cables [where is the upgrade?] have been downgrades in my case as they took away volume (higher impedance) and the useful remote.




The difference is ZERO MICROPHONICS. 

I agree that the stock cables are fine, but they are rubbery and microphonic. There is nothing more annoying than hearing every body movement and footstep come through your IEM when you're listening to your jam. I'll take the cable with zero microphonics every time and twice on Sunday.

Now, some may ask "why doesn't KZ include the upgrade cable with the IEM? Why give us the inferior cable?"

The answer is that some feel that there is "absolutely nothing wrong with them. Nada. Zilch. They sound as good as it gets. And they are free."

To each his own, but I hate microphonics. For some, it's not an issue, but I refuse to live with it given the choice. I'll gladly shell out $8 -$10 to filter out footsteps, clothes-rubbing and wind intrusion.


----------



## maxxevv

Its the only reason I changed cables too. 

Sound wise, I cannot really hear any obvious differences between stock and the braided cables. If there were any, they were subtle.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 22, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The difference is ZERO MICROPHONICS.


Fair enough and a good point! I didn't know the rubber cables had microphonics. Maybe I should get out more, move more, or not use a clip. But then I would appreciate the missing remote. 

But how did you know that the braided silver cables don't have microphonics. Is it the braiding? Or simply the reports by others?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 23, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Fair enough and a good point! I didn't know the rubber cables had microphonics. Maybe I should get out more, move more, or not use a clip. But then I would appreciate the missing remote.
> 
> But how did you know that the braided silver cables don't have microphonics. Is it the braiding? Or simply the reports by others?




Way back when KZ first released the ZS3 (their first detachable in their new crop of IEMs) I figured it out by mistake. 

An excerpt from my original review : 


Spoiler



I purchased these upgraded cables for two reasons.

1) I think these look much nicer than the excellent stock cables. It's just a way to accessorize my favorite IEMs.
2) I wanted to determine for myself whether or not there is a difference in sound quality due to upgrading the cables. I tend to be quite skeptical when it comes to audio equipment upgrade claims because the world of mid-fi and hi-fi audio equipment is littered with unproven claims by manufacturers and willing victims or gullible consumers who take the bait for one reason or another. I could elaborate, but most of you reading this get my point so let's get to the review......  

*** Update January 30, 2017 ***

I didn't notice this earlier, but it turns out that a top reason to pick up these upgraded cables is because THERE ARE ZERO MICROPHONICS. The stock cables, while durable and made well, are microphonics city. I didn't figure this out until I got these upgraded cables tangled with cables of an IEM I had in my ears. I was switching from one IEM to another and both were plugged into the splitter that was plugged into my DAP. When I decided to swap IEMs, the cable of the pair I was about to remove got tangled with these upgraded cables and the microphonics were very unpleasant while trying to undo the tangling. So much so, that I just pulled the first set of IEMs out of my ears and put the ZS3s with the upgraded cables in an proceeded to untangle the two different cables. When I did this THERE WAS ZERO NOISE....ZERO!

Could it be possible? I then rubbed these all over my clothes and everything else I could find.....and.....LORDY BE.....NO MICROPHONICS!

This should be a runner or gym-goers dream.

I think $8 is money well spent for reasons I haven't even anticipated.




 

 





The stock cables won't turn green like the white cables will but the lack of microphonics is worth the periodic $8 expenditure. You could always get the bronze cable if you're concerned about discoloration. Just received mine today so I don't have a pic yet, but here is a pic of someone's ZS6 with said bronze cable.


----------



## djmakemynight

HUGO SILVA said:


> Does anyone have the UiiSii CM5? Could you compare it to KZ ZS6 and TIN T2? thank you.



I think quite a few of us have the CM5 now. I myself have the CM5 and ZS6 so I can try to help you with that part.

Firstly, sound signature of both are pretty different. CM5 sounds like taking a front row seat while ZS6 would be seating further behind.

Soundstage size is very similar for both. For bass, CM5 resonates more while ZS6 is quick and tight. CM5 does have a stronger and thicker bass compared to ZS6. However, it does not overpower the other frequencies.

Treble is smoother on the CM5 but resolution is more detailed on ZS6 where the details are there in plain hearing. Micro details are there on CM5 as well but you need to listen out for them.

For me, I like them equally because of the different presentations they provide. Ear time depends on my choice of music and mood of that day. It's more of which presentation you prefer. Emotional vs more analytical or warmer vs cooler.

This is my personal quick answer based on stock provided tips in the box when I bought them.
Music through subscribed Spotify (extreme quality) over a Note 8 (Exynos).
Music genres range from classical, alternative, jazz, hip-hop, pop and EDM.


----------



## mbwilson111

djmakemynight said:


> Emotional vs more analytical or warmer vs cooler.



Which one is which to you? I got a little lost with this part...


----------



## djmakemynight

mbwilson111 said:


> Which one is which to you? I got a little lost with this part...



Haha. My bad. CM5 is the more emotional and warmer of the 2.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Wiljen said:


> Zsr has better mids as Zs6 is more V shaped.  Better is subjective in the overall question and louder is a function of amping and neither is markedly more sensitive than the other so both should be about the same.


Did you invert ?
My ZSR has slightly recessed voices (= V shaped), while they are much more present on my ZS6 (flater)
ZSR seems more bassy and ZS6 slightly more trebly, but maybe it is mainly a question of medium due to the second dynamic driver of the ZS6


----------



## Viber

zazaboy said:


> So zs6 are better after all..



It's not so easy...
As i wrote in my review;
ZS6 sounds better.
ZSR fits in your ear better,seals better = better portable set.

*
Removing the memory wire from the ZSR is a must, it should be in the manual!*


----------



## CoiL

I luv mem wire


----------



## Wiljen (Feb 23, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> Did you invert ?
> My ZSR has slightly recessed voices (= V shaped), while they are much more present on my ZS6 (flater)
> ZSR seems more bassy and ZS6 slightly more trebly, but maybe it is mainly a question of medium due to the second dynamic driver of the ZS6



No, I don't think I did.  To my ear even though the Zs6 does have that dedicated mid driver it is a predominantly V shape and the mids are a bit recessed and especially the upper mids are a bit hollow and sucked out.   The presence range on the Zsr is better and the upper mids are a bit truer to reality.    With all the comments about a Zs6 v2, I wonder if KZ hasnt tweaked the Zs6 a bit as my three samples were all from the first couple weeks of availability so entirely possible that mine would all be V1 prior to any driver or crossover updates that may have transpired.  

I don't mean to imply that I don't like the 6, just that on balance the Zsr is a bit more present in the upper mids and perhaps better suited for classical or orchestral pieces than the Zs6.   For rock and pop the zs6 has a great signature, for EDM the Zsr wins with that built in subwoofer it seems to have.

I just pulled both my Zsr and my newest (red) Zs6 and had a listen again.  Try The Black Crowes - Share the ride off  Croweology on both the Zs6 and The ZsR and listen for the vocal and guitar.   To me, that song does a good job of showing the differences in the presence region of the Zsr and Zs6.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Wiljen said:


> the Zsr is a bit more present in the upper mids



Yes, with my red ZS6 (+90h burnin) I can hear this, voices can be rather cold, a bit hollow, and this is better On my ZSR (50h burnin)
On the ZS6 the burn in with pink noise & sin log sound did not realy improve the sound, but maybe it did on the ZSR
With the ZS6 the consonant and mouth noises seem closer than the voice itself, high medium peak ?


----------



## jaydm99

After going through 4 pairs of foam tips in just 2 weeks, I decided to make my own "Symbio" using the stock Starlines tips



Spoiler: Spoiler


----------



## Otto Motor

CoiL said:


> I luv mem wire


I second this.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 23, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I think $8 is money well spent for reasons I haven't even anticipated.


The next question: how much money extra on cables makes price wise sense for each earphone? The sky is the limit it appears. Coincidentally, I went your route a while ago and have three of the $8 cables in my drawer: 2 for ZS3/5/6/ and one for ZST. Will play with them over the weekend...but I remember having impedance problems with one of the earphone/cable combinations.

Thanks for reminding me/us of the cables, Doc. An interesting weekend is guaranteed!


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> I luv mem wire



I like it when it's done well. KZ chooses wire that actually holds the shape you set it. More than I can say for the crap you find on some much more expensive iems that is little more than a preshaped wire with minimal memory. That sort of wire is terrible. Campfire Polaris suffers from it. Original FLC8S cable is another. LZ A5 to a lesser extent. The fabric cable is more the issue with that one. My fav memory wire is still that on the original ZS1. Perfect!


----------



## Wiljen

I really liked the setup on The Fiio F9 and Pro - no wire to speak of but the plastic coating on the cable will shape to your ear and with a little heat from a hair dryer you can mold it to your liking.


----------



## paulindss

Wiljen said:


> The more black Zsr pairs I see the less I like the looks of my green ones



The more Green ones i see the less i'm satisfied in ordering the Black ones


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 23, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> The next question: how much money extra on cables makes price wise sense for each earphone? The sky is the limit it appears. Coincidentally, I went your route a while ago and have three of the $8 cables in my drawer: 2 for ZS3/5/6/ and one for ZST. Will play with them over the weekend...but I remember having impedance problems with one of the earphone/cable combinations.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me/us of the cables, Doc. An interesting weekend is guaranteed!




This is, in effect, a two part question.

Part 1:


Otto Motor said:


> how much money extra on cables makes price wise sense for each earphone? The sky is the limit it appears.


This depends on your priority: aesthetics (including discoloration issues) and/or comfort. 

Personally, I've been looking at some aftermarket cables for my ZS6 simply because I want to find a cable that is proportionate in quality to the build and the design of the IEM itself. The stock cables work fine, but I have stated before that KZ should have spent more effort on designing a cable specifically for the ZS6  instead of just throwing the ZS3 cable at it. I am actually dumbfounded that not one other person brought this up. Look at the 2-pin housing on your stock cable. The reason it looks like it wasn't designed for the ZS6 is because it wasn't. That "out of place" angle you see was designed for the cable to sit flush with the ZS3's housing.


 

 

Why would a company be this lazy. Unfortunately,  I have no satisfactory answer and if I were to ask KZ directly I imagine they would hang their head in shame, as well they should. It's a pitiful way to vaunt your flagship IEM. My search for a cable of equal build and design is a personal choice. 

You're point that the "sky is the limit" is well stated, but I've found several in the $20-$30 price range that will suit my needs adequately. With the ZS6 at $35+/- and a well designed upgrade cable at somewhere between $8 - $35 means I have little to complain about. I know all too well how cost-prohibitive things can get, but $50 - $75 is a pittance considering the end result.

(I do not own this photo) 


 
....but this is one of my ZS6's [third ZS6(i) is en route and a ZS6(ii) will shortly follow]


 
BTW, this five-month old tri-braid cable (second image with blue eartips) has suffered from oxidation. It is, currently, a deep green from the connectors to the y-split and a pale green from the y-split to the 3.5mm jack.

At any rate, these are two 0.75mm 2-pin cables, but there are quite a few available from several sellers on Aliexpress if you do your due diligence.

Part 2: 


Otto Motor said:


> ...but I remember having impedance problems with one of the earphone/cable combinations.



For this part of your question I think it's best that I defer to hakuzen because he is well versed regarding impedance/resistance, etc. and what he brings to this thread is beyond appraisable value. 

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## Wiljen

paulindss said:


> The more Green ones i see the less i'm satisfied in ordering the Black ones



we might just be able to work something out then


----------



## C2thew

Yay my KZ zs6 finally arrived!  (ordered the black one just fyi)

kz zs6 ordered on 12-1-2017 from gearbest.  shipped out on 1-13-18. arrived on 2-22-2018.  (ouch)

As expected upon initial impressions of the kz zs6, the minute i put it in my ear, it sounded absolutely terrible, but i understand that it needs time to burn in.  The first thing i did was pop the metal screen off on both sides and put a 5mm x 3mm piece of 3m pore tape across both BA drivers to neutralize the sibilance completely.  It did kill the treble almost completely....and I will begin experimenting with the 3m pore tape by perhaps poking a hole in the tape to let some of the treble through.  As it stands, the sibilance from the headphones right out of the box was terrible and it gave me a headache. Covering the 2 BA drivers with 3m pore tape at least made the headphones bearable to listen to.  There is potential for these headphones for sure I just need to figure out the best mod for them for those high pitched BA drivers.

For some reason the rubber tips are dust magnets and collected dust and lint from my pocket.  The flip side is that the headphones stay in my ear even if i try to shake my head vigorously.  Noise isolation is present but is slightly below the KZ ZS3's which are my daily drivers for running at the moment.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 23, 2018)

paulindss said:


> The more Green ones i see the less i'm satisfied in ordering the Black ones



I like the green.  It was the main reason that I bought the ZSR as I certainly did not NEED another iem 

Anyway, my husband has a black one and I don't like us to have the same color if we do have the same model iem.


----------



## Wiljen

I have to make sure the headphones for my personal use are less aesthetically pleasing than the ones my wife and daughter already have.  So basically, I look for the best sounding ugliest designs I can find as I am more likely to get to keep them that way.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I have to make sure the headphones for my personal use are less aesthetically pleasing than the ones my wife and daughter already have.  So basically, I look for the best sounding ugliest designs I can find as I am more likely to get to keep them that way.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Slater Oh come on, not going to bring up the Jecklin Float?


----------



## Otto Motor

*CANADIAN WINTER MICROPHONICS, PART I:*
KZ ZSR's original rubber cable silenced by down jacket. No microphonics whatsoever at -20C. Results may vary in sunny California. 

$8 silver cables have been lined up.


----------



## oyobass

Wiljen said:


> I have to make sure the headphones for my personal use are less aesthetically pleasing than the ones my wife and daughter already have.  So basically, I look for the best sounding ugliest designs I can find as I am more likely to get to keep them that way.


I think I'm safe, as long as they don't have Hello Kitty or Minions on them.
I have given the pink and blue ZST to a few in my family, but they don't get used much...


----------



## Squalo

Has anyone had a ZS6 v2 in black or red? Or has all ZS6 v2 been the new grey? 

As in someone having one bought earlier and then one recently, and finding they sound different.


----------



## khighly

*Green* ZSR's came today! Will give initial impressions after 3:15PM PT.


----------



## AKMW44

Hi, ImI after an audio  cable with volume  control, price no more thant £15. IdI like. 75mm pins but  78mm are ok i believe. There for kzkzz


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> @Slater Oh come on, not going to bring up the Jecklin Float?



One of these days I will have a photo taken of me wearing my Precide Ergo.


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> I think I'm safe, as long as they don't have Hello Kitty or Minions on them.
> I have given the pink and blue ZST to a few in my family, but they don't get used much...



Kids these days...


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Kids these days...


*Those *are the kind my wife *really *wants...

$11.99 won't buy happiness, but it will get my wife a set of cat earphones on GearBest, and that's close...


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Feb 23, 2018)

It's been a long time since I last posted. I didn't need anymore IEM's but you guys/gals with your KZ's sucked me back into the vortex. Here's my comments on the ZS6 and Zsr. I love them both for different reasons. The ZS6 is so precise and detailed. I haventh found them sibilant after about 100 hours burn in and some wide bore tips. I did apply some stick on metal grid filters on top of the stock ones.

My ZSR's are warmer in the mids and fatter in the bass. Very relaxing compared to my ZS6's. My ZS6's are the later ones with the qq.com address. I have a second pair on order from Ali also gray. I will see if they sound the same. My ZS6's dug into my ears so I used an Emory board and 3000 grit sand paper to round off the edges. I am posting a pic to show the mod.


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Feb 23, 2018)

Oops, the pic didn't load on the first try...


----------



## bsoplinger

I was looking to post a link for the EDR2 in another thread and when looking through listings on Aliexpress.com I got a bit confused. Some stores listed 2 colors, a silver and a darker pewter or grey color. I thought that the EDR1 was the dark color and the EDR2 was the silver or aluminum color. Am I wrong.


----------



## oyobass

MDH12AX7 said:


> Oops, the pic didn't load onoyhetfirst try...


I had to do that mod to my ZS5s. Luckily my ZS6s fit much better. They do get a bit colder in the winter, so I've been using my Superlux 681s as earmuffs instead.


----------



## Slater

MDH12AX7 said:


> It's been a long time since I last posted. I didn't need anymore IEM's but you guys/gals with your KZ's sucked me back into the vortex. Here's my comments on the ZS6 and Zsr. I love them both for different reasons. The ZS6 is so precise and detailed. I haventh found them sibilant after about 100 hours burn in and some wide bore tips. I did apply some stick on metal grid filters on top of the stock ones.
> 
> My ZSR's are warmer in the mids and fatter in the bass. Very relaxing compared to my ZS6's. My ZS6's are the later ones with the qq.com address. I have a second pair on order from Ali also gray. I will see if they sound the same. My ZS6's dug into my ears so I used an Emory board and 3000 grit sand paper to round off the edges. I am posting a pic to show the mod.



Nice job friend!


----------



## Slater (Feb 23, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I was looking to post a link for the EDR2 in another thread and when looking through listings on Aliexpress.com I got a bit confused. Some stores listed 2 colors, a silver and a darker pewter or grey color. I thought that the EDR1 was the dark color and the EDR2 was the silver or aluminum color. Am I wrong.



No, you got it correct sir - EDR1 is the shiny blackish color with gold plated nozzles, and the EDR2 is the matte silver/aluminum color.

Also, be aware that the EDSE (ED Special Edition) looks identical to the EDR1, but the EDR1 sounds better.


----------



## khighly (Feb 23, 2018)

*First 30 minute ZSR Impressions:* Warm sound signature, heavy on bass/mid bass/mids while still having some weirdly placed highs/brightness. Heavy bass/mid bass, though frequency extension down into the low sub bass is somewhat limited and you can hear it start cutting. I feel like it needs that extra sub-bass driver. Bass otherwise is actually very present. Highs remind me of the ZST but worse, major sibilance that's probably up near 10-12k on some songs. It sounds like something tinny is singing in the background while I'm listening to female vocals on a trance track.

Probably the best isolation of any KZ I've tried.

I'll give more details after listening for awhile (hopefully it does too).


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 23, 2018)

khighly, you're initial impressions are very different from my own experience. The focal point or first thing I noticed with my ZSR was the bright, airy and detailed nature of the BAs, then the deep but limited bass you speak of. On my ZSR it's almost as if the upper-bass is absent and the midrange is coming only from the BAs so there is absolutely zero mid-bass bleeding into the midrange.  They seem to perform wonderfully at lower volumes and my ZSR is actually brighter than my ZS6(i). My ZSR is not warm by any stretch. The words that come to mind are open, airy, detailed and clean. The bass goes deep but it definitely doesn't  have enough weight to dominate the sound signature and force those BAs into submission, but at lower volumes the bass is in equal measure to the BAs. 



 



bsoplinger said:


> I was looking to post a link for the EDR2 in another thread and when looking through listings on Aliexpress.com I got a bit confused. Some stores listed 2 colors, a silver and a darker pewter or grey color. I thought that the EDR1 was the dark color and the EDR2 was the silver or aluminum color. Am I wrong.



EDR1


 

 

EDR2


 

 

HDS3


 

 

ED8


----------



## Slater (Feb 23, 2018)

Enjoying the sub-bass on the modded ZS6 tonight.





https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1847#post-14013143

The bass in The Prodigy's "Smack My B*tch Up" slams so hard and clean! A huge difference vs the stock ZS6.

It's still no match for the King of Bass ZS1 v1 though (although the sub bass of the modded ZS6 is cleaner and crisper). I'd love it if KZ re-released the ZS1 v1 but with a since BA - for now I have to settle for EQ.


----------



## Otto Motor

bsoplinger said:


> I was looking to post a link for the EDR2 in another thread and when looking through listings on Aliexpress.com I got a bit confused. Some stores listed 2 colors, a silver and a darker pewter or grey color. I thought that the EDR1 was the dark color and the EDR2 was the silver or aluminum color. Am I wrong.


You are right!


----------



## Otto Motor

khighly said:


> *First 30 minute ZSR Impressions:* Warm sound signature, heavy on bass/mid bass/mids while still having some weirdly placed highs/brightness. Heavy bass/mid bass, though frequency extension down into the low sub bass is somewhat limited and you can hear it start cutting. I feel like it needs that extra sub-bass driver. Bass otherwise is actually very present. Highs remind me of the ZST but worse, major sibilance that's probably up near 10-12k on some songs. It sounds like something tinny is singing in the background while I'm listening to female vocals on a trance track.
> 
> Probably the best isolation of any KZ I've tried.
> 
> I'll give more details after listening for awhile (hopefully it does too).


Sorry to hear. Mine are head and shoulders above the ZST. I was out in the snow with them today - just fabulous. Hope it is not KZ's quality inconsistency.


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> …
> /[Pictures of EDR1, EDR2, HDS3 and ED8/]


Thanks for the pictures. I thought I had it right. 

I wanted to ask before and these pictures reminded me. Although the topology, the shape, of the EDR2 and HDS3 are very similar the volume of the HDS3 is about half of the other. But besides being tinier, how do they sound in comparison to each other?


----------



## khighly (Feb 23, 2018)

Looks like almost a clone of the IT03 from one side, not from the other.


----------



## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Thanks for the pictures. I thought I had it right.
> 
> I wanted to ask before and these pictures reminded me. Although the topology, the shape, of the EDR2 and HDS3 are very similar the volume of the HDS3 is about half of the other. But besides being tinier, how do they sound in comparison to each other?



HDS3 have better soundstage, tuned much more neutral. Warm sounding. Mids are slightly forward. Sounds great with rock and vocal oriented music. HDS3 sounds more 'analog' if that makes sense.

EDR2 sounds similar to the HDS3, but with more sub bass extension than the HDS3 has.

EDR1 is more v-shaped, have brighter treble with good clarity, and much better sub bass. Better extension in both directions as well.

EDR1 sounds more 'digital', but not in a compressed digital way - just cleaner and darker/quieter from a background standpoint. It's kinda hard to describe, but when comparing them side by side you'll hear the difference right away. It's like the difference between percussion played on a live drum set vs a (pro grade) drum machine.

EDR1 and EDR2 are quite sensitive to ear insertion though (due to the way the vents are set up) - the sound can vary depending on insertion, and can sometimes "suction" and sound muffled (the ZS3 has this similar quality). But when you get them sealed just right - hold on to your hat they are sweet sounding. The EDR1 and EDR2 cable is the 'gut' style cable, and can is microphonic. The cable on the HDS3 is thinner (more fragile), but nicer because it's not sticky (kind of reminds me of the feeling of the Xiaomi Pro HD cable). EDM is amazing on the EDR1.

Switching out the red nozzle screen for stainless mesh makes the EDR1 one of the best if not the best offering available from KZ (as far as price/performance value). That's how all of my ESR1 are set up, so take that into consideration when reading my EDR1 comments

I love the HDS3, and use it a lot. But if it came down to it, and I was forced to get rid of every KZ I own except for 3 models, the EDR1 would be one of the 3 without even thinking about it.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 23, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Thanks for the pictures. I thought I had it right.
> 
> I wanted to ask before and these pictures reminded me. Although the topology, the shape, of the EDR2 and HDS3 are very similar the volume of the HDS3 is about half of the other. But besides being tinier, how do they sound in comparison to each other?



The HDS3 sounds a bit more diffuse than the EDR1 or EDR2. 

All three have different sound signatures :

HDS3 - mild "V" with what I would call a psycho-acoustic holographic soundstage. I say "psycho-acoustic" because 3-D is impossible to achieve with IEMs. Still my favorite old skool KZ.

EDR2 - near neutral with decent extension at both ends; average soundstage.

EDR1 - unashamedly "V" shaped with monster bass and decent extension up top. A little unrefined compared to KZ's newer crop  but a ton of fun. These look identical to the EDSE but they are more brazen with that bass and slightly less splashy with the treble because it's slightly rolled off. I'm listening right now and the words that come to mind are fatigue-free, warm and engaging.. Unfortunately, the sellers themselves don't know if they're selling the EDR1 or EDSE so you have to luck-out if you're looking for them. I only have the one pair you see in the pic and they have a mic on the cable so I baby them. They only come out on special occasions. 

Currently listening to this track and have a huge stupid grin on my face that can't be wiped away because the backbone of the song is that bass that just digs sooo deeeeep. 


If the ZS1(i) has more bass than this EDR1 then it definitely deserves B9's affectionate moniker "Lord Bass" because I can't imagine more bass without distortion and these have zero distortion. ZERO!

b-boom boom........b-boom boom
....young boy in the market 
sees the girl alone
and asks her have you lost your way home...
she sings....
you say the most beautiful things....
just like my violins...
I look into your eyes....
and I am at the center of the sun......


----------



## Slater (Feb 23, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> If the ZS1(i) has more bass than this EDR1 then it definitely deserves B9's affectionate moniker "Lord Bass" because I can't imagine more bass without distortion and these have zero distortion. ZERO!



Yes, ZS1 v1 definitely has more bass.

You're right about the lack of distortion on the EDR1 - you can crank them up to ear-bleed levels (amplified), and they will happily pound pound pound away with no distortion. Simply amazing.

That's interesting that you hear slightly recessed mids on the HDS3 - I've always heard them as neutral to slightly forward. What tips are you using on yours? And what source?

Also, there is a way to tell the EDSE and EDR1 apart. 95% sure the vent holes are different. I'll verify next time I have my EDSE out (which isn't that often because the EDSE sound is meh).


----------



## MDH12AX7

@khighly  my ZSR sounded just like you described at first. Bass lacked depth, thin mids and strange high treble that seemed disconnected from the rest of the signature. After a long burn in the mids filled out, the treble evened out and bass improved. They really changed a lot! Hopefully yours will too.


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## DocHoliday (Feb 23, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yes, ZS1 v1 definitely has more bass.
> 
> You're right about the lack of distortion on the EDR1 - you can crank them up to ear-bleed levels (amplified), and they will happily pound pound pound away with no distortion. Simply amazing.
> 
> ...



Technically I deem the mids as neutral, but the treble sparkle and bass are slightly more pronounced, thus my "V" designation. I typically use Philips SHE3580 eartips which fit and seal perfectly. Same eartips you see on my EDR1 in the previous post.

Pull out that HDS3 and behold....


Spoiler





The rarest and best remix of "Under The Sheets" 
(found on Masterworks Collection: Solitude)


----------



## khighly

*3-4hrs:* Plugged the ZSR's into the modi/magni and they're *BASS CANNONS*. The extension down very low is still pretty disappointing. It feels like 20hz-40hz is like -5dB from 50-100Hz.You can feel it pushing air, but it _doesn't actually make any sound_. I can hear it fine in the ZS5's and IT03's. Listening to my UK [proper] Dubstep from Rinse.FM is a little disappointing so far. Soundstage is pretty typical for KZ's on par with the ZST which I thought had a fairly good soundstage. 

I can't really tell you if they're comfortable since I was using the IT03's for 2-3 weeks prior and the ZSR's are almost an exact copy at least on the inner shell so my ear is already fairly used to the design. They aren't any worse than the IT03's, though the IT03's definitely hurt for at least a week while getting used to them.

*Tracks: *


This one should have monster sub bass, but is severely disappointing in the ZSR's so far.


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## Slater (Feb 24, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Technically I deem the mids as neutral, but the treble sparkle and bass are slightly more pronounced, thus my "V" designation. I typically use Philips SHE3580 eartips which fit and seal perfectly. Same eartips you see on my EDR1 in the previous post.



Makes sense with how you describe it now. Thanks for the clarification.

Those are some cool looking tips on the HDS3 

What are the clear tips on the EDR1? They kinda look like Samsung Galaxy 4 (maybe) tips.


----------



## Otto Motor

MDH12AX7 said:


> Oops, the pic didn't load on the first try...


What tips are these?


----------



## bsoplinger

My take on the new ZSR… Still treble cannons although not as bad (much) as the ZS6 depending on your tolerance for bright IEMs. Nicely done mids and bass. Lacking in sub-bass and bass punch compared to the ZS6 but I'm quite happy with the amount provided. I'm not going to get them confused with multi hundreds of dollar IEMs but I'm not going to hate listening to them either.

I will say that they pushed at or exceeded my brightness tolerance listening to Kate Bush. For those not familiar, YouTube video linked below and like most YouTube videos a less than decent approximation of what the song sounds like from the actual vinyl or CD. 



Spoiler


----------



## theintroprose

bsoplinger said:


> My take on the new ZSR… Still treble cannons although not as bad (much) as the ZS6 depending on your tolerance for bright IEMs. Nicely done mids and bass. Lacking in sub-bass and bass punch compared to the ZS6 but I'm quite happy with the amount provided. I'm not going to get them confused with multi hundreds of dollar IEMs but I'm not going to hate listening to them either.
> 
> I will say that they pushed at or exceeded my brightness tolerance listening to Kate Bush. For those not familiar, YouTube video linked below and like most YouTube videos a less than decent approximation of what the song sounds like from the actual vinyl or CD.
> 
> ...



I've just spent a few days listening to them as well. For a frame of reference did you by chance use foam tips, or just the silicone tips that came with it? They are definitely on the brighter side, but I found them to be tolerable and at least with foam tips the bass and sub bass was quite present and punchy. Overall to me they are quite impressive in the detail they can deliver. There is a bit of sibilance present but I found it to be rare. I have a set of ZS6's arriving on Sunday as well so will be evaluating those later.


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## DocHoliday (Feb 24, 2018)

Slater said:


> Makes sense with how you describe it now. Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Those are some cool looking tips on the HDS3
> 
> What are the clear tips on the EDR1? They kinda look like Samsung Galaxy 4 (maybe) tips.



Those clear ones on the EDR1 are the Philips SHE3580 eartips.


----------



## F4yze

Slater said:


> Enjoying the sub-bass on the modded ZS6 tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't wait to try that mod out. Just bought the washers off aliexpress since I can't buy it easily here in SG. Probably gonna take at least a week for it to arrive. I already did your laserbond in one BA mod and it did improve the sound by heaps. I love the KZ6 and it's quite satisfying modding it and having it come off better than before. Will take a pic once I did the mod.


----------



## DocHoliday

bsoplinger said:


> My take on the new ZSR… Still treble cannons although not as bad (much) as the ZS6 depending on your tolerance for bright IEMs. Nicely done mids and bass. Lacking in sub-bass and bass punch compared to the ZS6 but I'm quite happy with the amount provided. I'm not going to get them confused with multi hundreds of dollar IEMs but I'm not going to hate listening to them either.
> 
> I will say that they pushed at or exceeded my brightness tolerance listening to Kate Bush. For those not familiar, YouTube video linked below and like most YouTube videos a less than decent approximation of what the song sounds like from the actual vinyl or CD.
> 
> ...





Mine have settled considerably and sound more cohesive than when I first popped them in. Upon first listening the disparity between the DD and BAs was very apparent. They've settled nicely and I would consider them as an excellent all-around IEM.

The mid-bass starts to roll so the upper-bass is slightly recessed, but I'll take it because the result is no bass bleed. Technically, that means some upper-bass info isn't as vivid, but I prefer this style of tuning because mid-bass bloat often ruins a great number of IEMs and the ZSR sidestepped that minefield.

Give them a little time to settle. They are tuned quite well


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> Enjoying the sub-bass on the modded ZS6 tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I may just mod my black ZS6 with this, though I'm skittish about ruining the ZS6's well defined lower frequencies.


----------



## fluteloop

Slater said:


> I thought people had decided KZ did revise it, since new marketing photos shows?



the kz cannot be changed with decisions alone.


DocHoliday said:


> I wonder if the slight bass increase is a result of using one midrange BA + one treble BA instead of two treble BAs. Not sure if that's the case but psycho-acoustics may play a part. The connection between the ears and the brain are far more advanced than we give credit for.
> 
> Proof, you all say? Give us proof!
> 
> Vertigo!



my new zs6's sounded different to my worn in and thrashed set.. after a while the new pair is aligning in sound signature to the older pair.


----------



## theintroprose

DocHoliday said:


> After reading your ZSR review I'd say the ES3 are very likely subservient to the ZSR.
> 
> 
> This describes the low end of the ES3 well. If the ZSR outclasses the ZST then it will certainly outclass the ES3 as the ES3 is a slight variation of the ZST. The ES3 is a ZST with deeper/slower bass and slightly restrained treble (mid- to lower-treble focus as opposed to upper-treble focus) in comparison to the ZST.
> ...


I agree with your impression of ES3 vs ZSR. ES3 and ZSR to me have a very similar sound signature. ZSR is just more detailed in its presentation all around. But in some aspects ES3 might be more enjoyable due to its more laid back nature. Bass however is noticeably more enjoyable on the ZSR.


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## fluteloop (Feb 24, 2018)

Then again If I had excess stock, I could modify a poster to create buzz... deny anything has changed deny any knowledge of the person who modified the poster and just sit back and clear stock lol.... think about it. it's genius.

And if KZ has swapped designs in the past without actively proclaiming anything, they know it causes a stir. They also know the object is sealed and you'd destroy or damage the item trying to figure it out. 

one SMD component swap from even a brand or a minimal tolerance for something so sensitive could also be discernable but have enough people in a frenzy that they'll go out and buy more lol.


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## DocHoliday (Feb 24, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> the kz cannot be changed with decisions alone.
> 
> 
> my new zs6's sounded different to my worn in and thrashed set.. after a while the new pair is aligning in sound signature to the older pair.



I found that the best way to evaluate two IEMs in this situation is to wait a day and use no earphones for 24 hours, then pop in one set for 20-30 minutes with one well recorded song that you know very well. After 20- 30 minutes swap to the other set and you should be able to hear the differences (if any) right away.

I often use one or all of the following tracks:


Spoiler


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> Enjoying the sub-bass on the modded ZS6 tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dumb question about your mod. From the picture I'm assuming that you did your method #2 on those, the small washer versus #1, the nylon mesh. I was going to ask why not just put the washer over the existing stainless steel mesh but as I was writing this I think I answered my own question. Between the smaller diameter of just the hole in the washer and the extra percentage of the hole covered by the existing mesh it gets too closed off. Am I right?


----------



## MDH12AX7

Otto Motor said:


> What tips are these?


They are generic Powerbeats tips from seller lostearbuds on Ebay. I like them. He let me order all large in multiple colors.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/152859855855


----------



## MDH12AX7

DocHoliday said:


> I found that the best way to evaluate two IEMs in this situation is to wait a day and use no earphones for 24 hours, then pop in one set for 20-30 minutes with one well recorded song that you know very well. After 20- 30 minutes swap to the other set and you should be able to hear the differences (if any) right away.
> 
> I often use one or all of the following tracks:
> 
> ...



Wow Doc, you have more willpower than I do. 24hrs with no earphones....


----------



## DocHoliday

MDH12AX7 said:


> Wow Doc, you have more willpower than I do. 24hrs with no earphones....



It's the same rule for wine tasting, always try to start with a clean palette.


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## Slater (Feb 24, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Dumb question about your mod. From the picture I'm assuming that you did your method #2 on those, the small washer versus #1, the nylon mesh. I was going to ask why not just put the washer over the existing stainless steel mesh but as I was writing this I think I answered my own question. Between the smaller diameter of just the hole in the washer and the extra percentage of the hole covered by the existing mesh it gets too closed off. Am I right?



Correct - it was too restrictive (to the sound) to my ear. You can see this on one the Russian methods of narrowing the nozzle - see how you only end up with a handful of "holes" for the sound to go through? You effectively end up with a VERY small nozzle, significantly smaller than the already small nozzle created by the restriction (in their case, a piece of silicone; in my case, the washer).




I also built a few custom ZS6 'tuning filters', made by trimming small circles of filter material (tea bag paper and a few types of desiccate bag paper), then adhering the filter between 2 washers (like a hamburger where the filter is the patty and the washers were the top and bottom bun). Because the washers fit perfectly into the nozzle (in place of the stock screen), this allowed me to easily swap tuning filters. In the end, I settled on just the washer with no filter (ie an open restricted hole). This provided the best compromise of increased sub-bass and knocking down a bit of the 10k peak.

I imagine this was the similar conclusion of KZ arrived at on the ZS1 v1, as they ended up doing the exact same thing (ie an open, but restricted, hole):




I would love to get a measurement rig up and running, which would make testing like this easier and more scientific. Because we all know how imperfect the human ear is.


----------



## Otto Motor

ES3 vs. ZSR: my ES3 sound rather dull and bassy without any shine and sparkle compared to my ZSR.

ZSR treble: I can't handle overdone treble either. For example, the SEAHF-AWK009 or Boarseman CX98 sound unpleasant to me after a short while. But my ZSR's treble has not bothered me at all.

The question is: do all our ES3s and ZSRs sound the same?

ZSR cable: my ZSR have the coloured cable and not the ZS6's black cable. I was told that the coloured cable is better - possibly less microphonic. True or false?


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## Slater (Feb 24, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> The question is: do all our ES3s and ZSRs sound the same?



In theory.

I'd say for the most part that each IEM in the same production run is basically "the same" (that's the intent anyways). But the reality is that there are inconsistencies from IEM to IEM, due to manufacturing tolerances coupled with KZ's craw-rity control.

We already know from past experiences that drivers get wired internally out of phase, glue clogs vent holes, BAs get mounted crooked, foam inserts get forgotten, sound tubes get crushed, the inside of shells get full of rust, solder joints get cold or sloppy, etc.

All of that comes into play, when considering possible differences between my ZS5 or EDR2 vs yours vs someone else's.


----------



## paulindss

@khighly 

Off Topic: Do you find that tennmak pro are a good iem by today standarts ? How do they stand against, let's say, your kz's, in sound. Their design really attracts me. And they can be bought with only Shells for 12$ in tennmak store, with a 6$ KZ cable they could go for cheaper than retail price.


----------



## khighly

paulindss said:


> @khighly
> 
> Off Topic: Do you find that tennmak pro are a good iem by today standarts ? How do they stand against, let's say, your kz's, in sound. Their design really attracts me. And they can be bought with only Shells for 12$ in tennmak store, with a 6$ KZ cable they could go for cheaper than retail price.



The MMCX on the Tennmak's is really bad and every pair I've had lasted only 2-3 weeks. They were very warm and lacking a soundstage. They were actually pretty good, however due to the MMCX issue I'd pass.

Tennmak Piano is worth it if you want an absolute bass cannon.


----------



## Slater (Feb 24, 2018)

paulindss said:


> @khighly
> 
> Off Topic: Do you find that tennmak pro are a good iem by today standarts ? How do they stand against, let's say, your kz's, in sound. Their design really attracts me. And they can be bought with only Shells for 12$ in tennmak store, with a 6$ KZ cable they could go for cheaper than retail price.



I haven't heard anyone talk about the Pros in a long time.

My brother bought a pair when they 1st came out (I thought they sounded OK, but nothing special). They struck me as your typical generic v-shaped IEM, and there's massive competition in that area. He doesn't even use them anymore, but I don't know why (maybe because the MMCX jack failed).

Since it's release, there are much better IEMs available, at better prices.

For $4 and change the KZ EDR1 walks all over the Tennmak Pro. For $9-$12 the UiiSii CM5 (with it's graphene double dynamic driver) is in another league altogether. Sure, neither have removable cables, but that's overrated if you don't absolutely *have* to have that feature.


----------



## paulindss

Thx @Slater and @khighly 

I had some mistrust that the Tennmak could be not so impressive anymore. I Will discart the Idea.

About the CM5, i'd love to order one, they seem to be a hell of a Deal, but Amazon shipping to Brazil makes It Impracticable. If someone at home buy something in Amazon and redirect to home, i'll certainly grab one and ship together as the price of shipping Would barelly change.


----------



## theintroprose

khighly said:


> The MMCX on the Tennmak's is really bad and every pair I've had lasted only 2-3 weeks. They were very warm and lacking a soundstage. They were actually pretty good, however due to the MMCX issue I'd pass.
> 
> Tennmak Piano is worth it if you want an absolute bass cannon.


Can't speak to Tennmak's MMCX connector quality as I had only owned mine for a few weeks. You're absolutely right about warm sound. Very dark and veiled sounding headphone. I've listened to mine with foam tips and at least on my copy the sound stage was very good actually. Also very comfortable fit.

Someone above mentioned KZ QA lacking and wiring things out of phase. I am now convinced that the ES3 I was listening to definitely had one of the drivers out of phase. Luckily my ZSR and ZS6 appear to be wired correctly.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 24, 2018)

*Cable Salad*
Tested two KZ cables with the ZSR. The ones designed for the ZST have the same connectors as the stock cable. Now I am really confused...both "upgrades" make the sound clearer/harsher or simply louder but certainly different. But the sound with the original cables is more subtle - which one is better I don't know. And whether there is a difference between the two upgrade cables, I don't know either.

I am confused.

UPDATE: did the same with the KZ ES3: the ZST cable makes things louder with increased mid bass punching against my eardrums. The ZS3/5 cable makes things much quieter and removes bass and 3-dimensionality (same with the second ZS3/5 cable). Ran a channel identification test...was fine.


----------



## theintroprose

Otto Motor said:


> *Cable Salad*
> Tested two KZ cables with the ZSR. The ones designed for the ZST have the same connectors as the stock cable. Now I am really confused...both "upgrades" make the sound clearer/harsher or simply louder but certainly different. But the sound with the original cables is more subtle - which one is better I don't know. And whether there is a difference between the two upgrade cables, I don't know either.
> 
> I am confused.


Maybe their polarities are flipped causing them to be out of phase. If they can misswire the drivers inside of headphones they could misswire cables too.


----------



## Slater (Feb 24, 2018)

A couple of people have asked me about the custom tuning filters I made for the ZS6. I figured I would share the details with everyone, as they are easy and inexpensive to make (<$0.01 each).

I will be continuing to test additional filters, as I had initially only made a few different filters.

My plan is to test more filters made using additional types of material that I didn't test initially - additional desiccate bags, disposable paper coffee filters, stainless nozzle filters, nylon nozzle filters, etc.

As evidenced by the wide variety of BA tuning filters available commercially, it will be possible to target very specific frequencies depending on filter material. At the time I did my testing, my primary goal was to increase sub bass (as an alternative to the Russian methods), not on tuning the BA output.

I feel there are still hidden improvements to be had with the tuning filters, unlocking the ZS6's true potential. Since so many of us have the ZS6 v1 (vs the better tuned ZS6 v2), I think this would be very beneficial to the HF community.

_I would greatly appreciate anyone's assistance in getting an IEM testing rig set up (ARTA or otherwise), even if crude and uncompensated. If you can help, please PM me._


*Required materials:*

M2 stainless steel washers (details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1847#post-14013143)
very sharp/small bladed scissors, such as those used for sewing, hair cutting, etc
tweezers
disposable food plate
magnifying glass (optional, as the washers and filter materials you'll be working with are *ridiculously* small)
fine sewing needle, sewing pin, safety pin, or "T" pin
super glue (GEL style, not regular liquid type)
filter materials
tea bags
disposable paper coffee filters
desiccant bags
micropore tape
used anti-static dryer sheets
cotton headphone driver tuning paper

permanent metal coffee filter (different micron levels available)
3.7mm stainless nozzle filters (universal f/Aliexpress)
3.7mm nylon nozzle filters (removed f/other IEMs, ie KZ red filters on ZS3, EDR, EDSE, etc)

*Steps:*

1. On your disposable food plate, lay out a few washers. This is your working surface. Keep everything on the plate, as this will help keep all of the ridiculously tiny materials organized and contained.

2. Attach your filter material

If you are using a filter material *with* adhesive pre-applied (such as stainless or nylon nozzle filters):
Simply peel and stick them to the washer using tweezers (make sure to center the filter on the washer).
Press with your finger to adhere the nozzle filter fully.
Proceed to step 3.


If you are using a filter material *without* pre-applied adhesive (such as coffee filter, tea bag, or desiccant bag):
Use your scissors to cut a perfect square slightly SMALLER than the OD of washer (ie the washer is 5mm OD, so cut the square around 4.5mm)
Now trim the corners of the square off at 45 degrees, so you end up with a symmetrical 4.5mm octagon. If it ends up as a 'lopsided' octagon, start over until you get it right. The material is trivial - a single tea bag can make probably 500 cut squares.
Take your GEL super glue and squirt and tiny blob at the edge of the paper plate, out of the way of your working area (ie at the top edge, on the rim of the plate, etc). It only needs to be the 1/4 the size of a single grain of rice (and even that is will be too much).
Using your tweezers, *center* your octagon filter on the washer as best as you can (this is easier said than done, as you'll see in the photo below).
Using the sharp edge of your fine sewing needle, sewing pin, safety pin, or "T" pin, dip it into the super glue GEL and apply a THIN smear to the 12 o'clock position of the filter. The idea is to get half of the smear of glue on the edge of the filter, and half of the smear of glue on the bare washer. *Don't use too much glue, or it will soak/wick to the center of the filter where the sound travels through. LESS IS BETTER!!*
Repeat this procedure at the 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions.
Let the glue fully dry.
Proceed to step 3.

3. Repeat the procedure to make a 2nd filter.

4. Congratulations, you have now made a pair of filters.

5. Repeat the entire process using an alternate filter material if you wish.

6. To ATTACH the filters to the nozzle of the ZS6, follow the procedure outlined in Mod #2 at the following link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1847#post-14013143


*Photos of the completed filters.*

A completed tea bag filter, showing the BACK side of the filter with the tea bag attached per Step 2 above. See how the tea bag was cut slightly SMALLER than the washer OD? This gives the thin smears of glue an opportunity to stick to both the edge of the filter material and some of the washer in the 12,3,6,9 o'clock positions (seen best in the photo at the 6 o'clock position):



The FRONT of a completed tea bag filter, held up to the light so you can see how the sound will filter through:



The FRONT of a completed stainless mesh filter, showing how the stainless filter looks from the FRONT:



The FRONT of a completed stainless mesh filter, held up to the light so you can see how the sound will filter through:



Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> *Cable Salad*
> Tested two KZ cables with the ZSR. The ones designed for the ZST have the same connectors as the stock cable. Now I am really confused...both "upgrades" make the sound clearer/harsher or simply louder but certainly different. But the sound with the original cables is more subtle - which one is better I don't know. And whether there is a difference between the two upgrade cables, I don't know either.
> 
> I am confused.



I can't tell the COLOR of the plastic rings between the poles of the TRRS jack in the TOP photo. It's obscured by the wire.

That could explain the difference in sound. It boils down to impedance.

The BOTTOM wire has the non-white rings. If the top cable has white plastic rings between the poles of the TRRS jack, then it has higher impedance vs the bottom wire, which would explain the difference.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 24, 2018)

I tried to delete this...


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 24, 2018)

Slater said:


> I can't tell the COLOR of the plastic rings between the poles of the TRRS jack in the TOP photo. It's obscured by the wire.
> 
> That could explain the difference in sound. It boils down to impedance.
> 
> The BOTTOM wire has the non-white rings. If the top cable has white plastic rings between the poles of the TRRS jack, then it has higher impedance vs the bottom wire, which would explain the difference.


Sorry, I don't understand a word.
1. Which coloured plastic rings? Everything is white.
2. Between the poles of the TRRS jack?
3. How are white plastic rings and impedance related?


I think I figured it out:
1. There are two connector type plugs, a kinked/curved one (ZST, ES3) and a straight one (ZS3/5/6).
2. The ZS3/5/6 jack is a bit recessed so that the ZST type plug does not fit well.
3. When replacing stock cables with "upgrades" of the same plug type, things work.
4. The upgrade cables have a slightly lower impedance, making the earphones easier to drive.
5. This is not worse than the stock cable, just different.
6. The sound is probably not any worse with the upgrade cable.
7. My mistake was using the stock cable as reference for the right impedance. There is not such a reference as none of the two impedances is right or wrong.


----------



## F4yze

Slater said:


> A couple of people have asked me about the custom tuning filters I made for the ZS6. I figured I would share the details with everyone, as they are easy and inexpensive to make (<$0.01 each).
> 
> I will be continuing to test additional filters, as I had initially only made a few different filters.
> 
> ...



Which one is your favorite so far? Would I get the best sub bass with just the washer itself or would a filter in the middle make it better?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 24, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *Cable Salad*
> Tested two KZ cables with the ZSR. The ones designed for the ZST have the same connectors as the stock cable. Now I am really confused...both "upgrades" make the sound clearer/harsher or simply louder but certainly different. But the sound with the original cables is more subtle - which one is better I don't know. And whether there is a difference between the two upgrade cables, I don't know either.
> 
> I am confused.
> ...




Perhaps what you are experiencing is found in this excerpt from my "KZ Upgrade Cable" review  when I tested the stock cable and the upgrade cable simultaneously. 



> How the test was done.
> 
> Source: Fiio X3i
> Splitter: ADTRIP 3.5mm Male to 2 Female Audio Y Splitter Cable
> ...


 


 

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## khighly

theintroprose said:


> Can't speak to Tennmak's MMCX connector quality as I had only owned mine for a few weeks. You're absolutely right about warm sound. Very dark and veiled sounding headphone. I've listened to mine with foam tips and at least on my copy the sound stage was very good actually. Also very comfortable fit.
> 
> Someone above mentioned KZ QA lacking and wiring things out of phase. I am now convinced that the ES3 I was listening to definitely had one of the drivers out of phase. Luckily my ZSR and ZS6 appear to be wired correctly.



I was using the Tennmak Pro's for a few weeks as my daily driver and enjoyed them. Their comfort was top notch. They did indeed have a dark sound, but like everything you get used to it.


----------



## Slater (Feb 24, 2018)

F4yze said:


> Which one is your favorite so far? Would I get the best sub bass with just the washer itself or would a filter in the middle make it better?



I've only tested a few filters so far (the ones that are _italicized)._


*ZS6 nozzle (w/stock stainless "cheese grater" screen) PLUS*

_Black nylon filter (from EMI CI-880)_
Micropore tape

Washer (open with no filter)
Washer (w/tea bag filter type A)
Washer (w/tea bag filter type B)
Washer (w/disposable coffee filter)
Washer (w/permanent brass mesh coffee filter type A - I'll have to look up the micron #)
Washer (w/permanent brass mesh coffee filter type B - I'll have to look up the micron #)

Washer (w/KZ red nylon filter)
Washer (w/generic stainless mesh screen filter)
Washer (w/desiccant filter type A)
Washer (w/desiccant filter type B)
Washer (w/cotton headphone driver tuning paper)

Washer (w/dryer sheet)

Washer (w/micropore tape)

*ZS6 nozzle (w/generic stainless mesh screen) PLUS*

Black nylon filter (from EMI CI-880)
Micropore tape

Washer (open with no filter)
Washer (w/tea bag filter type A)
Washer (w/tea bag filter type B)
Washer (w/disposable coffee filter)
Washer (w/permanent brass mesh coffee filter type A - I'll have to look up the micron #)
Washer (w/permanent brass mesh coffee filter type B - I'll have to look up the micron #)
Washer (w/KZ red nylon filter)
Washer (w/generic stainless mesh screen filter)
Washer (w/desiccant filter type A)
Washer (w/desiccant filter type B)
Washer (w/cotton headphone driver tuning paper)
Washer (w/dryer sheet)
Washer (w/micropore tape)
*OPEN ZS6 nozzle (NO nozzle mesh) PLUS*

_Washer (open with no filter)_
Washer (w/tea bag filter type A)
Washer (w/tea bag filter type B)
Washer (w/disposable coffee filter)
Washer (w/permanent brass mesh coffee filter type A - I'll have to look up the micron #)
Washer (w/permanent brass mesh coffee filter type B - I'll have to look up the micron #)
Washer (w/KZ red nylon filter)
Washer (w/generic stainless mesh screen filter)
_Washer (w/desiccant filter type A)_
_Washer (w/desiccant filter type B)_
Washer (w/cotton headphone driver tuning paper)
Washer (w/dryer sheet)
Washer (w/micropore tape)
As you can see, there's a significant amount of testing combinations, and a lot to remember and keep track of. It will be a lot more efficient and ultimately reliable to have a FR testing rig.


----------



## Slater (Feb 24, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Sorry, I don't understand a word.
> 1. Which coloured plastic rings? Everything is white.
> 2. Between the poles of the TRRS jack?
> 3. How are white plastic rings and impedance related?
> ...



I meant to type TRS plug, not TRRS.

Basically, look at the 3.5mm plug (ie the TRS plug).

The original 'silver upgrade cable' used WHITE plastic "stripes" between the T and R and S poles (ie the gold plated metal poles aka Left Right Gnd). Later revisions used COLORS instead of white.

Like this:




Anyways, @hakuzen did impedance testing on pretty much every stock and upgrade cable KZ makes. Multiple revisions of the silver upgrade cables, the different COLORED cables (grey, orange, gold), the multi-braided cables, etc. He even tested the silver TRN cable.

He's the resident expert on the subject.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853

Spoiler alert - the highest impedance cable was the stock ZST cable. The lowest was the thin 'original style' silver upgrade cable with BLACK rings (photo below):


----------



## fredhubbard2

i know i'm a bit late to the party but these ZS5's are bluddy amazing....its like technicolour is being poured into my ears. all my DAPs sound supercalifragilisticexpealidocious with these.


----------



## theintroprose (Feb 24, 2018)

fredhubbard2 said:


> i know i'm a bit late to the party but these ZS5's are bluddy amazing....its like technicolour is being poured into my ears. all my DAPs sound supercalifragilisticexpealidocious with these.


I am listening to my ZS6s right now and know exactly what you mean. These headphones have no right sounding this good for less than $50. Maybe it's crazy talk but, slap a Shure, Campfire, Etymotic Research sticker on these and they would be right at home with a $300-$400 price tag.


----------



## paulindss

@Slater @mbwilson111 

Slater mentioned UIISII cm5 earlier and i searched for the earlier mentions and It was clear that they are a safe bet. For the 11$ that i found them, even more. Some light pupped in my Head that my parents was in need to order some slicer on Amazon and i used my Power of Conviction to convince them to order soon. And voi lá! I got the Uiisii for 11$ with Free shipping to the warehouse in US and will redirect them together with the other thing that was ordered with almost zero increase of the shipping price to brazil. Looks like a Deal.

Don't know when Will receive them but i Will give my impressions in a appropriated thread. The feedback of the community on these iem's are Very good. Let's see the Power of the single dynamic. The soundstage caught my attention.


----------



## riffrafff

Slater said:


> I can't tell the COLOR of the plastic rings between the poles of the TRRS jack in the TOP photo. It's obscured by the wire.
> 
> That could explain the difference in sound. It boils down to impedance.
> 
> The BOTTOM wire has the non-white rings. If the top cable has white plastic rings between the poles of the TRRS jack, then it has higher impedance vs the bottom wire, which would explain the difference.



I gotta ask...

Does the additional 0.3 Ohms really make a difference?


----------



## bsoplinger

riffrafff said:


> I gotta ask...
> 
> Does the additional 0.3 Ohms really make a difference?


When that represents the base value, ie 0.3 vs 0.6, yes it will. When its much less than the base, ie 10.3 vs 10.6, not so much


----------



## Duncan

I've moved on from the ZST / ZS5 / ZS6 now, but will watch with interest as to what KZ gets up to in the coming months


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 25, 2018)

Slater said:


> I meant to type TRS plug, not TRRS.
> 
> Basically, look at the 3.5mm plug (ie the TRS plug).
> 
> ...


Yep, my silver cables of both types (ZST and ZS3/5/6/) have black rings and a lower impedance than the respective stock cables with mic. Fits. Thanks!

Here my cables:
DC resistance of KZ cables (read by DMMs), in ohms (left, right, and ground).

zst/es3/zsr type:
*(31) upgrade kz plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings). 0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40*
(08) kz zsr stock mic..........................................................0.64 0.64 0.88

zs3/5/6 type:
*(30) upgrade kz zs3/5/6 plated (4cords).........................0.67/70 0.67/70 0.67/70*
(04) kz zs5 stock................................................................0.66 0.63 0.38


----------



## theintroprose

If they could dual port the nozzle for better more constrained bass flow, flatten the backside of the ZS6 (or lengthen the nozzle) just a tiny bit for a better fit and dampen some of the highs without loosing too much detail and release a ZS7.. I'd be all over it.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Perhaps what you are experiencing is found in this excerpt from my "KZ Upgrade Cable" review  when I tested the stock cable and the upgrade cable simultaneously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great work! Thanks! Whenever I rip one cable out and add the other, I have forgotten the previous sound signature to some extent. But the point is that there are obvious differences between cables. 

I wonder whether the remote is the culprit as it is somewhat i in the way of the flowing electrons. No expensive cable has a remote or mic.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> I've only tested a few filters so far (the ones that are _italicized)._
> 
> 
> *ZS6 nozzle (w/stock stainless "cheese grater" screen) PLUS*
> ...



What color washer gives me the tightest & fastest bass?


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## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> I gotta ask...
> 
> Does the additional 0.3 Ohms really make a difference?



No clue.

I don't claim to have bionic space robot ears that can hear everything either - all of the upgrade cables I have sound basically the same to me.

I know others do hear differences in the cables. I'd say if you hear a difference, then it's real to you and I'm cool with that. Your ears are the only ears that really matter at the end of the day, right?


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## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

khighly said:


> What color washer gives me the tightest & fastest bass?



I've only tested FOUR (4) out of 43 possible filter combinations so far.

So unfortunately I don't have an answer for you yet


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## DocHoliday (Feb 25, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Great work! Thanks! Whenever I rip one cable out and add the other, I have forgotten the previous sound signature to some extent. But the point is that there are obvious differences between cables.
> 
> I wonder whether the remote is the culprit as it is somewhat i in the way of the flowing electrons. No expensive cable has a remote or mic.



I can't speak to the microphone /control modules because nine out of ten times I order my IEMs without one.



Otto Motor said:


> ....the point is that there are obvious differences between cables.



I'd be a bit more economical with the term "obvious" due to the subtlety of the variations involved. In addition, please remember that I used no scientific gear to determine whether or not what I was hearing was a drop in the volume due to the cable's impedance or a nominal decrease of the sub-bass. At any rate, if the subtle difference I noticed were to ever be verified then a hobbyist may indeed pick it up, but the term "obvious" can be easily misconstrued by someone seeking to alter the sound of his/her IEM. This then fuels debates and the accusations start to fly. In such cases precise terminology is warranted. I will always direct someone to sample different eartips and/or try a different source (DAP, etc) because those variables can augment an IEM's presentation to a greater degree than cable swapping ever could. 

For a second time, I would like to defer to hakuzen in the matter of testing multi-driver IEM impedance curves and the effect that cables of various impedance/resistance have on said IEMs. I am, admittedly, wading out into deeper waters without a life-vest (not a good idea).

I prefer to state it this way:


Otto Motor said:


> ....the point is that there may be very subtle differences between cables.



And now, a tender moment from our sponsor...
Best piece ever written for pianoforte since it was invented in the year 1700.


----------



## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The HDS3 sounds a bit more diffuse than the EDR1 or EDR2.
> 
> All three have different sound signatures :
> 
> ...



Hey Doc, I wanted to revisit this topic after spending the day with the EDR1 and EDR2.

You are indeed correct on the EDR1 vs EDR2. They definitely sound different.

When I tested 2 days ago they sounded basically the same to me.

However, I noticed today that there were different tips on the EDR2. The EDR2 that KZ manufacturers now (and ships in the same small white box as the Bluetooth/upgrade cables) *includes different tips that I've never seen before on a KZ IEM! They are all black and have a very small bore - sneaky sneaky KZ.*

When I installed the same tips on both (ie the old style dark greyish ones with the red core), I immediately heard the difference between the 2.

EDR2 reminds me of the HDS3, but with the addition of filling in the sub bass that's lacking on the HDS3.

I prefer the EDR1. The EDR2 isn't bad per se, the EDR1 just suits my tastes more.

I looked down into the nozzle, and they appear to use the same drivers. The vent holes are in different spots, and the body of the EDR1 is longer. The EDR1 is noticeably heavier too.

Obviously there’s some sort of differences that affect the sound (likely the vent hole). I plan to fill the vent hole on the EDR2, and drill a new one of the same size and in the same spot as the EDR1. If the EDR2 magically starts sounding like the EDR1, then that mystery will be solved (and will give people a way to “convert” one into the other). If it still sounds different, then there is some internal difference (to the driver or housing).

Stay tuned....


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## DocHoliday (Feb 25, 2018)

Slater said:


> Hey Doc, I wanted to revisit this topic after spending the day with the EDR1 and EDR2.
> 
> You are indeed correct on the EDR1 vs EDR2. They definitely sound different.
> 
> ...






Slater said:


> Also, the body of the EDR1 is longer than the EDR2.



I never really noticed that. You've a good eye there, Slater. 


> The EDR1 is noticeably heavier than the EDR1, so I'm not sure what's different (if anything)



The reason the EDR2 is heavier is because it is fashioned from a common alloy, whereas the EDR2 is fashioned from what seems to be a low grade aluminum. 



Slater said:


> Between the EDR1 and 2, I much prefer the EDR1. The EDR2 isn't bad, I just prefer the EDR1 between the two...



Likewise, I prefer the EDR1. The EDR2 is an excellent basic barrel budget bugle, but my preference is for more energy than neutral sound signatures provide. The EDR2 is better suited for someone that eschews roll-off or emphasis in the frequency ranges. 

Going slightly off topic, I give my highest recommendation for the ZSR. It is almost as comfortable as the ZS3, which is hands down the most comfortable IEM if it conforms to your ear. 

The ZSR is incredibly detailed though it never oversteps in any frequency range. It's almost laughable to try and nitpick what Knowledge Zenith have offered up for less than $30. Let that sink in for a moment.  "Less than  $30!"

Previously, I mentioned the roll-off of mid- to upper-bass and khighly made mention of the limited extension in the lower frequency range, but as I settle in with it......I have to say I think that KZ actually impressed me by parsing the difference between the ZS6 and the ZST/ES3 variants. I knew it would be more nuanced than the ZST/ES3 variants and less technical than the ZS6, but what I did not expect was something so innocuous and so capable all at once. The ZST has served as an everyday hero for many a KZ fan, but Knowledge Zenith has drawn a new line in the sand with the ZSR that the rest of the budget Chi-Fi market must now strive to compete with. 

Is it any wonder that we collect these things like baseball cards?

The real question is "how far behind iBasso's IT03 is KZ's ZSR?"

Given enough time to evaluate the two IEMs side by side, I'm sure khighly will chime in with her own findings and this should be of great interest to all of us. I think so, anyway.




 
Now, if KZ would stop with the teasing and release those white (and red) ZSR's.


----------



## NeonHD

Good news! My KZ bluetooth module decided to show up today in the mail.










Bad news: My ZS6 is semi-broken so I can't experience it


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 25, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The ZSR is incredibly detailed though it never oversteps in any frequency range. It's almost laughable to try and nitpick what Knowledge Zenith have offered up for less than $30. Let that sink in for a moment.  "Less than  $30!"
> 
> The real question is "how far behind iBasso's IT03 is KZ's ZSR?"



After all my cable testing I also compared the ZSR to the $399 UE900S...and was still so confused that I would have not been able in a blind test to figure out which one the cheapo and which one the expensive iem was. The ZSR really are quite something. I settled for the standard white low-impedance KZ silver.
cable. Hifi Chris filled me in that cables of different impedance have different effects on the sound depending on the impedance of the iem. For example, a higher impedance cable can increase brightness or darken the sound, depending on the iem.

As to the EDR1. I also prefer them over the EDR2 because they handle better (are more substantial) and they have a bit less bass. But the sonic differences between my EDR1 and EDR2 are small...and both are lots of fun.

Presently playing with the Focal Spark...they do have a punchy and very focused bass.

As to Johnny Bach: his keyboard music can cheer/shut me up. He always has three tunes on the go, simultaneously. There are great Canadian recordings by Angela Hewitt and the late Glenn Gould.


----------



## Pruikki

DocHoliday said:


> I can't speak to the microphone /control modules because nine out of ten times I order my IEMs without one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




had to Login just to say, that was nice piece of music. so calm...
good piano ing.


----------



## Pruikki (Feb 25, 2018)

Here is some vaporvawe i made, take a listen just for the fun of it. (_this is best after work,chill sound_)

I would like to ask, How should i name,a music that is edited to be slower pitched and so, music, that is as good or
Better when slowed down...? just Vaporwave for now?

      how is it? i think its awesome the guitar melody


----------



## base08

Did anyone already had the chance to do a proper zs6 v1 vs zs6 v2 comparison?

 Eager to buy a good budget performer for my flight travels, but I really want to avoid treble canons as I have the old hyped **** 4in1 and the sharpness plus sibilance are a major annoyance compared to my earbuds...

Missed the hype train on the zs5 v1, would like to hoop on the zs6 v2...


----------



## youngarthur

Slater said:


> No clue.
> 
> I don't claim to have bionic space robot ears that can hear everything either - all of the upgrade cables I have sound basically the same to me.
> 
> I know others do hear differences in the cables. I'd say if you hear a difference, then it's real to you and I'm cool with that. Your ears are the only ears that really matter at the end of the day, right?


Likewise. I have tried cables. up to £200, and found very, very little difference, but that does not mean anything. It just my old ears do not detect it.


----------



## aspire5550

Slater said:


> No clue.
> 
> I don't claim to have bionic space robot ears that can hear everything either - all of the upgrade cables I have sound basically the same to me.
> 
> I know others do hear differences in the cables. I'd say if you hear a difference, then it's real to you and I'm cool with that. Your ears are the only ears that really matter at the end of the day, right?


Agree that all these are just very subjective. But on the case of KZ's stock cable, they have tons of microphonics while the upgraded kz silver cable has little to none microphonics. Sound improvement is highly subjective imo.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Feb 25, 2018)

base08 said:


> Missed the hype train on the zs5 v1, would like to hoop on the zs6 v2..



I received a recent ZS6, at first listening the trebles were rather calm, then appeared sibilance sometimes with more agressive highs.
After 80h burn in, I don't hear a lot off change. After 110h burn-in, trebles soften...
ZS6 maybe needs 150-200h burn-in
Dunno for sure but today I believe that the ZS6 "v2" was a false bet...
ZS6 is technical and the sound can be very impressive, but it does not forgive an average recording, or electronic.

I recommand for you the ZSR that is better tuned, the trebles are softer.
It has lot in commun with the ZS6
Everything is fine after 48h burn-in (loop of pink noise + sin log).
Voices are not so close as the ZS6, but not recessed.

Free Burn-in Files | Head-Fi.org:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/free-burn-in-files.466827/
I bet that all earphones need a burn in to improve and get a stable sound. specialy for the BA that could need between 48-150h
Possibly KZ, to save costs (their products are sold at very low prices) does not any burn in, and we have to do the work.

I remember:
ZST pro, harsh trebles, recessed voices, well balanced after 70h burn in
ES3, sibilant all the time, artificial recessed voices, well improved after 80h


----------



## HaNs SuPeR

Just got the KZ Silver upgrade cable. 
I really like it.
Doesn't tangle and get caught on stuff anything like the stock cable. 
100% worth it for that alone.


----------



## base08

jeromeaparis said:


> I received a recent ZS6, at first listening the trebles were rather calm, then appeared sibilance sometimes with more agressive highs.
> After 80h burn in, I don't hear a lot off change. After 110h burn-in, trebles soften...
> ZS6 maybe needs 150-200h burn-in
> Dunno for sure but today I believe that the ZS6 "v2" was a false bet...
> ...



Thank you man for the advice, but are you sure you have the v2? 

I come from being long time user of earbuds and their price/performance is astounding but for noisy environments they are not the best...

I was into the 4 driver hype, but I will take a look into the ZSR...


----------



## HiFiChris

Otto Motor said:


> Chris filled me in that cables of different impedance have different effects on the sound depending on the impedance *response *of the iem.



Corrected that for you. 

An IEM with a ruler-flat impedance response doesn't suffer from frequency response changes if you change the cable (/output) impedance.


----------



## jeromeaparis

base08 said:


> are you sure you have the v2?



There is no official V2. but KZ could have secretly modified the ZS6 (as they did with the Ate & the ZS1), softening the trebles
I think today that the ZS6 is still the same.


----------



## base08

jeromeaparis said:


> There is no official V2. but KZ could have secretly modified the ZS6 (as they did with the Ate & the ZS1), softening the trebles
> I think today that the ZS6 is still the same.


Hum their marketing material changed... and the two different pages and prices over GearBest some time ago, makes me feel that indeed was a different batch with upgraded internals... but I guess only time will time...


----------



## Slater

aspire5550 said:


> Agree that all these are just very subjective. But on the case of KZ's stock cable, they have tons of microphonics while the upgraded kz silver cable has little to none microphonics. Sound improvement is highly subjective imo.



Agreed, I was speaking about sonic differences, not microphonics. Thanks for pointing that out - I apologize I didn't clarify that.

Microphonics are definitely a problem with the stock cables, and so for me that's the only reason I use the upgrade cables.


----------



## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> There is no official V2. but KZ could have secretly modified the ZS6 (as they did with the Ate & the ZS1), softening the trebles
> I think today that the ZS6 is still the same.





base08 said:


> Hum their marketing material changed... and the two different pages and prices over GearBest some time ago, makes me feel that indeed was a different batch with upgraded internals... but I guess only time will time...



We'll find out when my grey ZS6 show up from Gearbest.

If they are indeed different, then I'll be glad to own a different (and better) sound signature in my line up. If they turn out to be the same, well at least I'll have a complete collection of each color 

@jeromeaparis, what color is your new ZS6? Did you get the grey "extra bass" model?


----------



## nicolanico

Hi everybody,

I'm indecided beetween these 3 model

ZS3
ES3
ZSR

Which has more bass and which is the more fun with warm suound 4 rock and electronic music? I'll prefer the ZS3 4 the low price, is it bassy enough? thx


----------



## Pruikki

nicolanico said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I'm indecided beetween these 3 model
> 
> ...



i can say, i have them all. and i like ZSR the best.

just has "more" sound to it ZS3 is easy to listen to. ES3 is not so, better take ZSR over ES3


----------



## cottonbud (Feb 25, 2018)

After month of waiting my ZS6 has finally arrived.


Spoiler: Large photos


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 25, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> After all my cable testing I also compared the ZSR to the $399 UE900S...and was still so confused that I would have not been able in a blind test to figure out which one the cheapo and which one the expensive iem was. The ZSR really are quite something. I settled for the standard white low-impedance KZ silver.
> cable. Hifi Chris filled me in that cables of different impedance have different effects on the sound depending on the impedance of the iem. For example, a higher impedance cable can increase brightness or darken the sound, depending on the iem.
> 
> As to the EDR1. I also prefer them over the EDR2 because they handle better (are more substantial) and they have a bit less bass. But the sonic differences between my EDR1 and EDR2 are small...and both are lots of fun.
> ...



Indeed, I have a lover'ly catalog of Glenn Gould recordings; all of the Bach piano concertos, Well tempered klavier, art of fugue, Goldberg Variations, etcetera. The odd thing is that the one recording I don't prefer is Gould's interpretation of BWV 971 ii andante (the track I posted). That doesn't mean his interpretation is wrong, he's practically an authority on interpreting Bach's intentions, but to me the backbone of the piece in his interpretation is wholly disconnected because the opening of the piece sets the tone for the piece as a whole.The tone and texture of the backbone softens and is less truncated (becomes more fluid) as the piece progresses, but the opening tone seems to detract from the overall texture of the piece as a whole (sounds quite disjointed to me) and I can find nothing so disjointed in all of Bach's works for keyboard, whether accompanied or solo.

I will say that Gould's coloration throughout the piece in general has more expression, though at times it doesn't seem as melancholic as my preferred interpretation.


Spoiler



My preference: 


Gould's interpretation: 


Note the tone Gould sets for this piece. It's more consistent with Bach's work.  




I have recently discovered some of Angela Hewitt's work and I look forward to hearing more of it. Thanks for the suggestion. 



Otto Motor said:


> I settled for the standard white low-impedance KZ silver.
> cable. Hifi Chris filled me in that cables of different impedance have different effects on the sound depending on the impedance of the iem. For example, a higher impedance cable can increase brightness or darken the sound, depending on the iem.


Most of the KZ upgrade cables that I own are the cable that you speak of here. I bought several when they were released and still have two that are unopened (18 months old now). The only drawback is the oxidation/discoloration over time, but they remain a favorite for filtering out microphonics. 


Otto Motor said:


> I also compared the ZSR to the $399 UE900S...and was still so confused that I would have not been able in a blind test to figure out which one the cheapo and which one the expensive iem was. The ZSR really are quite something.



I could not have stated your point better, myself. Let your ears determine the end result, independent of price. Confirmation bias can be a powerful factor, though I am well aware that this argument cuts both ways. 

At any rate, as you put it so succinctly, "The ZSR really are quite something."


----------



## TheVortex

cottonbud said:


> After month of waiting my ZS6 has finally arrived.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Large photos



On the back of the packaging, does the email address have the qq in it?


----------



## jeromeaparis (Feb 25, 2018)

Slater said:


> @jeromeaparis, what color is your new ZS6? Did you get the grey "extra bass" model?



I've got the red ZS6 from GB,
no "hifi extra bass" in title nor in description
latest box with email 2945269***@qq.com
Maybe you can ask at this email
(replace *** by 490)


----------



## cottonbud

TheVortex said:


> On the back of the packaging, does the email address have the qq in it?


Yes, it does. 2945269490@qq.com What does this mean?


----------



## fluteloop

jeromeaparis said:


> I've got the red ZS6 from GB,
> no "hifi extra bass" in title nor in description
> latest box with email 2945269***@qq.com
> Maybe you can ask at this email
> (replace *** by 490)



I have two with qq emails and one unopened foxmail address box. (smells the box).... can't smell anything different.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Hi, thevortex, do not expose a mail "uncoded" cause it would be spamed !


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 25, 2018)

(Casually Breakdancing)


----------



## cottonbud

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, thevortex, do not expose a mail "uncoded" cause it would be spamed !


This is public mail from KZ official site, so i guess they have spam filter.


----------



## Otto Motor

nicolanico said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> I'm indecided beetween these 3 model
> 
> ...


The ZS3 has enough bass but is a somewhat redundant and superseded model that wasn't great. The ES3 comes in different flavours and is hit or miss: some people don't have bass and mine is a bass canon. The superb ZSR is the way to go...you get what you pay for. And if you want to go cheap, I'd recommend the KZ ATR but not the ZS3. Or the ZST. And then pack an EDR1 or EDR2 on top of that. $5 each.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 25, 2018)

Final result: ZSR stock cable vs. the lower impedance KZ silver upgrade cable (black poles). There is a difference in tonality: the upgrade brightens the sound and removes depth. The stock cable has more kick (bass; drums), voices sound more natural (to me) and not pushed up. Soundstage remains the same.

Not sure which is more desirable. The question is: what did KZ have in mind when designing stock cable/upgrade cable.

What we learn: different cables of different impedance CAN make a difference in sound.

Consequence: when reviewing earphones, the cable used should be indicated.

Cables used:
DC resistance of KZ cables (read by DMMs), in ohms (left, right, and ground).
zst/es3/zsr type
*Upgrade cable  kz plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings)......................0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40*
(08) kz zsr stock mic..........................................................0.64 0.64 0.88


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> Final result: ZSR stock cable vs. the lower impedance KZ silver upgrade cable (black poles). There is a difference in tonality: the upgrade brightens the sound and removes depth. The stock cable has more kick (bass; drums), voices sound more natural (to me) and not pushed up. Soundstage remains the same.
> 
> Not sure which is more desirable. The question is: what did KZ have in mind when designing stock cable/upgrade cable.
> 
> ...



You hear what I hear. Now, we just need a graph plotting the ZSR's impedane response (waterline or not).


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> Final result: ZSR stock cable vs. the lower impedance KZ silver upgrade cable (black poles). There is a difference in tonality: the upgrade brightens the sound and removes depth. The stock cable has more kick (bass; drums), voices sound more natural (to me) and not pushed up. Soundstage remains the same.
> 
> Not sure which is more desirable. The question is: what did KZ have in mind when designing stock cable/upgrade cable.
> 
> ...



While cables changing the sonic characteristics is often a debated topic, I would assume we all agree that different tips/pads often make a significant difference in the sound. Yet most people fail to list what tips are installed when giving impressions.

So the most thorough approach would be to list not only the cables, but also the tips, source, amplifiers, and songs including their format/resolution.


----------



## nicolanico

Otto Motor said:


> The ZS3 has enough bass but is a somewhat redundant and superseded model that wasn't great. The ES3 comes in different flavours and is hit or miss: some people don't have bass and mine is a bass canon. The superb ZSR is the way to go...you get what you pay for. And if you want to go cheap, I'd recommend the KZ ATR but not the ZS3. Or the ZST. And then pack an EDR1 or EDR2 on top of that. $5 each.



Thanks 4 answer very bring into focus,

what are the differences between EDR1 and EDR2, only colour or also in sound? Thx


----------



## theintroprose

I second the ZSR.. I think it's KZ's best model yet. ZS6 is technically superior in some ways but the comfort issues at least for me make it hard to recommend over the ZSR.


----------



## zazaboy

cottonbud said:


> After month of waiting my ZS6 has finally arrived.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Large photos



do you have kz zs6 v2 ??? and which are the kz zs6 v2... how can we check it when we have it ... from the box ?


----------



## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> do you have kz zs6 v2 ??? and which are the kz zs6 v2... how can we check it when we have it ... from the box ?



FYI, the existence of a ZS6 v2 has not been proven. There is only speculation. Gearbest asked KZ directly, and KZ said that there are NO new revisions at this time. And remember, KZ makes exclusive models just for Gearbest, so Gearbest definitely has access to the proper people at KZ. Were they telling the truth? No one knows (at least not yet).

The packaging is not a reliable way to tell either (at least yet). KZ changes their packaging all of the time. The bluetooth cables were shipped in at least 3 different boxes. The ZS5 has at least 3 different boxes (maybe even 4).

And finally, a few revised marketing images is reliable proof as well. For all we know, someone with Photoshop at Gearbest made those revised marketing images, and the only reason they've changed is that they were interpreting Chinese language to (broken) English.

Even the few people that swear it "sounds different" isn't reliable proof. The mind can play tricks on you, especially with audio products, based on 'expectation bias' and other influences.

I would honestly wait a little bit longer for more people to receive the "extra bass" model. Someone will do a thorough/scientific evaluation to get to the bottom of it. Only when FR measurements are taken, or a complete teardown has been peformed (where we can all see the exact BA drivers used plus any changes to the crossover or wiring) will we know for sure.

Like this:



It will happen in due time. Patience is required in the mean time, to prevent wasting money based on rumors and speculation.

Unless you are volunteering to be a guinea pig, buy one of the "extra bass" models, and perform a teardown like above?


----------



## Slater

nicolanico said:


> Thanks 4 answer very bring into focus,
> 
> what are the differences between EDR1 and EDR2, only colour or also in sound? Thx



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1899#post-14064001
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1899#post-14064031
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1903#post-14066527
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1903#post-14066628
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1903#post-14066662


----------



## zazaboy

I have ordered the red version of kz zs6 hope its a v2 man


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> While cables changing the sonic characteristics is often a debated topic, I would assume we all agree that different tips/pads often make a significant difference in the sound. Yet most people fail to list what tips are installed when giving impressions.
> 
> So the most thorough approach would be to list not only the cables, but also the tips, source, amplifiers, and songs including their format/resolution.


Yes! 

And I am presently learning from Hifi Chris behind the scenes. *Output impedance *of the player appears to be important and the cable is part of it; for example, Coil reported, he has optimized his setup for the KZ5. The ZS6 reportedly sound much different on different sources.

*Tips: *allegedly it is the *bore width* that makes the biggest difference: narrow bores tame the treble. Foam has less bass in my experience (I don't use foams as I don't like them in my ear). The KZ starline tips are just fine for me.

Apparently, *cables* change the sonic characteristics under certain circumstances, i.e. with the iem's *impedance response*...I am certain, Hifi Chris will jump in here soon and give us the small print (I don't want to steal too much of his knowledge). But, at the same time, the different tonality of cables is not related to their price, just to their basic construction...that's why cheap monoprice cables are so great for both wallet and sound.
I reverted in all cases to the stock cables.

A friend just dropped me this on impedance : http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html


----------



## Slater (Feb 25, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> I have ordered the red version of kz zs6 hope its a v2 man



The main one that started the speculation is the grey one, since it has its own separate marketing page on Gearbest, is more expensive than the other colors, and is the only one that has a unique "extra bass" designation.

The belief is that when KZ discontinued the green ZS6 and replaced it with the grey one, they used it as an opportunity to tweak the tuning.

But like I said, it is all guessing and speculation at this point.

If there IS a ZS6 v2, it could only be the grey one, or it could be all 4 colors, or it could not exist at all.

Regardless, the ZS6 (any color) is a great IEM and the overwhelming majority of people like it. So I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Even if you are one of the people who find it's treble much too sharp, there's lots you can do to address the issue. Burning it in, using foam tips, impedance adapters, different cables, numerous different foam mods, BA driver mods, numerous different nozzle mods, nozzle filters, etc.


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 25, 2018)

nicolanico said:


> Thanks 4 answer very bring into focus,
> 
> what are the differences between EDR1 and EDR2, only colour or also in sound? Thx


A second, quick answer:
1. Both are almost identical in sound
2. The EDR1 are less bassy and slightly heavier/more substantial to handle
3. At $4-5 each, buy them both and train your comparison skills
4. Both are well worth their money and a steal
5. If I could only afford one, I'd go with the EDR1
6. I recommend the version with mic


----------



## Saoshyant

This thread is starting to remind me of the Xiaomi Piston thread with all the version obsession.  That thread became pretty unpleasant.  Just wait until there's actual evidence of a change before fixating.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Feb 25, 2018)

Since long, I've been experimenting with the speaker and source cables on various hifi setups, including tube and AV amps And I found that both may have a big impact on the sound.
The quality of the metal counts: it should mostly be made off OFC Copper (3.20$/lb). If not ofc, it may oxydate quickly, conductivity of oxydated copper is bad.
I do not believe in the copper plated aluminium (1$/lb), that is much cheaper, for good hifi. Big cheap cables are made of Al
The number of wires influences the sound, and also the finish or polish of their outer surface.
The diameter of the metal will determine the resistance (ohms) it has influence on bass and sub
The Silver metal, (240$/lb conductivity only slightly better than copper) plated over each wire, will give a (possibly much) brighter sound, specialy for the trebles, and the bass will be more focused but thinner.

Silver plated cables can easily give agressive trebles and hard voices (on some cases with too soft trebles and big round bass it may help if you re too lazy for electronic mods)
I believe that pure ofc copper cables made off lot of thin well polished wires give the best sound specialy for the voices and trebles


----------



## oyobass

NeonHD said:


> Good news! My KZ bluetooth module decided to show up today in the mail.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been waiting for my Bluetooth module for close to 80 days, so I'm in the same boat.


----------



## zazaboy

can anyone recommend a good cable for kz zs6 anyone have info about good cables on aliexpress?


----------



## chinmie

How is the ZST compared to the ZS5?


----------



## chinmie

Otto Motor said:


> A second, quick answer:
> 1. Both are almost identical in sound
> 2. The EDR1 are less bassy and slightly heavier/more substantial to handle
> 3. At $4-5 each, buy them both and train your comparison skills
> ...



The EDR1 is one of the KZ that the form i like, it looks industrial and robust. I haven't had the chance to try them yet because i was exploring other things..and now i had enough cans already. . But i will buy them soon, just for kicks


----------



## C2thew

So I opened up the zs6 shells and can confirm that one of the torx screws is a "dummy" screw.... Meaning that it doesn't actually thread into any material and is simply held in by friction.  The screw in question is the one left of the vents on the left earbud and the one right of the right vent for the right vent for the right ear bud.  It is there for aesthetics.

There's lots of glue inside.


----------



## bsoplinger

C2thew said:


> So I opened up the zs6 shells… There's lots of glue inside.


Lots of glue holding things together instead of physical bits. Always a sign of high craftsmanship


----------



## Wiljen

I've had a few in ears where the best use of glue was to remove the tips and pour super glue directly into the nozzles until they wouldn't hold any more.   This way at least no-one else could ever be subjected to that torture.   The most recent rev sample I got that fit that criteria was a Riversong.  They should have been thrown in the river and left to drown.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> So I opened up the zs6 shells and can confirm that one of the torx screws is a "dummy" screw.... Meaning that it doesn't actually thread into any material and is simply held in by friction.  The screw in question is the one left of the vents on the left earbud and the one right of the right vent for the right vent for the right ear bud.  It is there for aesthetics.
> 
> There's lots of glue inside.





bsoplinger said:


> Lots of glue holding things together instead of physical bits. Always a sign of high craftsmanship



It's not glue - I know it looks like it's just just a bunch of messy glue globbed in there, but it was intentional and serves a very specific purpose (ie benefit).

The blue "glue" you see is a special silicone-based dampening agent that is designed to improve driver isolation in multi-driver setups.

KZ went the extra mile for us, in order to provide the best sound possible from the ZS5 and ZS6. They didn't have to add it - they could have just as easily cheaped-out (like many other low end manufacturers) and actually USED glue.

I talked about it in more detail here, when I 1st opened up the ZS5 and discovered what it was: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1275#post-13616188


----------



## hakuzen (Feb 26, 2018)

i've just received grey zs6. also got red ones with qq email, zsr, and zs5v2.
will try to measure them (fr response and maybe impedance curve) this week if i have the time for it, and will compare to older zs6 (not qq email) to check if something changed


----------



## NeonHD

Anyone here got a FR curve of the ZS5v2?

I'm planning on downgrading from my ZS6 and getting the ZS5 instead, and I'm curious to see if the treble on the ZS5v2 is more tamed.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> It's not glue - I know it looks like it's just just a bunch of messy glue globbed in there, but it was intentional and serves a very specific purpose (ie benefit).
> …
> I talked about it in more detail here, when I 1st opened up the ZS5 and discovered what it was: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1275#post-13616188


Didn't know although I seem to remember seeing that picture before so perhaps it was before I actually owned a KZ product and just didn't think it was something to remember. I will admit when I first saw pictures of these various multiple driver IEMs, especially those with 3+, I remember thinking it was odd that there seemed to be no isolation or dampening as I'd see in standard stereo speakers with similar multiple drivers. So its nice to know that it is useful in the smaller size of an IEM and that some companies deal with it properly.


----------



## theintroprose

I think my ZSR has inverted phases. They sound noticeably more natural with inverted both left and right cables. Both of the cable inscription L-R are now pointed inwards. On my ZS6 they are pointed outwards and that seams to be correct but will need to do more listening to confirm. I actually now have some soundstage on my ZSRs.. sigh.


----------



## Otto Motor

theintroprose said:


> I think my ZSR has inverted phases. They sound noticeably more natural with inverted both left and right cables. Both of the cable inscription L-R are now pointed inwards. On my ZS6 they are pointed outwards and that seams to be correct but will need to do more listening to confirm. I actually now have some soundstage on my ZSRs.. sigh.


Test your channels here:
http://www.audiocheck.net


----------



## bsoplinger (Feb 25, 2018)

theintroprose said:


> I think my ZSR has inverted phases. They sound noticeably more natural with inverted both left and right cables. Both of the cable inscription L-R are now pointed inwards. On my ZS6 they are pointed outwards and that seams to be correct but will need to do more listening to confirm. I actually now have some soundstage on my ZSRs.. sigh.


There is at least one file somewhere in this thread that points to a YouTube video that has a stereo and phase test. It plays left, right then stereo a few times then goes to an in phase out of phase sequence. Although designed for standard stereo speakers it is useful with earphones and you can tell the difference between the in and out of phase parts. I'll edit this with the post or the YouTube link once I find where I kept it because I remember thinking it would be useful for others don't loose it.

Edit: name is: speaker polarity test - test tone

Link:


----------



## theintroprose

bsoplinger said:


> There is at least one file somewhere in this thread that points to a YouTube video that has a stereo and phase test. It plays left, right then stereo a few times then goes to an in phase out of phase sequence. Although designed for standard stereo speakers it is useful with earphones and you can tell the difference between the in and out of phase parts. I'll edit this with the post or the YouTube link once I find where I kept it because I remember thinking it would be useful for others don't loose it.
> 
> Edit: name is: speaker polarity test - test tone
> 
> Link:



Life saver! Yup I am definitely in phase now on my ESR, which means all this time I was listening to them out of phase, and they are internally wired wrong.


----------



## bsoplinger

Otto Motor said:


> Test your channels here:
> http://www.audiocheck.net


Although I like the YouTube video I linked as a quick and dirty check for wiring I like the options from using the various files he's offering. I paid the $5 PayPal he's asking for support just to get access to the wav files of the various sounds. After all, I'm down to less than 10 out of the appropriate 50 difference earphones getting a full 100 hours of burn-in and a few listening sessions over a day or two depending on how nice they sounded. The sweeps should be useful for trying to get at least some consistency in my reviews of the lot.


----------



## bsoplinger

theintroprose said:


> Life saver! Yup I am definitely in phase now on my ESR, which means all this time I was listening to them out of phase, and they are internally wired wrong.


I should have added that its possible to extract the audio from the video. You'll get a m4a file, AAC audio file. Most players will handle that. It will be correct and output the testing waveforms correctly. If you make a mp3 from the video because of compatibility issues make sure you don't use joint audio as part of the compression options. I may be old enough so that the option isn't available anymore. The trouble with joint stereo is that it store a single audio stream containing everything in common between the two channels and then 2 separate substreams of the difference between the common and left or right. And the out of phase sections have nothing in common and the subbands won't contain enough info to recreate the waveform. So you'll just hear the out of phase sections get really quiet.


----------



## Slater (Feb 26, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> Anyone here got a FR curve of the ZS5v2?
> 
> I'm planning on downgrading from my ZS6 and getting the ZS5 instead, and I'm curious to see if the treble on the ZS5v2 is more tamed.



This isn't the best one, but its better than nothing. I have a number of ZS5 v1 ans ZS6. But this is the only ZS5 v2 that I've ever seen shared. Someone posted it a while ago and I saved it, knowing I'd need it at some point in the future LOL

Maybe someone has a better one?

There's 2 lines on this - the white line is the UiiSii CM5. The ZS5 v2 is the *other* line.

(click for larger view)


----------



## CoiL (Feb 26, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *Cable Salad*
> Tested two KZ cables with the ZSR. The ones designed for the ZST have the same connectors as the stock cable. Now I am really confused...both "upgrades" make the sound clearer/harsher or simply louder but certainly different. But the sound with the original cables is more subtle - which one is better I don't know. And whether there is a difference between the two upgrade cables, I don't know either.
> 
> I am confused.
> ...


Take multimeter and measure R/L/G impedances. If there is at least 0.3Ohm difference with cables, then it could be from impedance difference.
I have experienced this several times. Simplest example is stock Fidelio X1 cable of which You can find many examples about too high impedance.
Usually impedance around 0.5Ohm and lower - I can`t hear any difference. But around 0.8Ohm vs. =>0.5 Ohm, I have noticed differences in sound.
For example I use high impedance ~1.2 Ohm cable with my **** 4in1 to "smooth out" little harsh highs.


Otto Motor said:


> Yes!
> 
> And I am presently learning from Hifi Chris behind the scenes. *Output impedance *of the player appears to be important and the cable is part of it; for example, Coil reported, he has optimized his setup for the KZ5. The ZS6 reportedly sound much different on different sources.
> 
> ...



You are finally starting to understand hi-fi  HiFi-Chris has educated You well 



NeonHD said:


> Anyone here got a FR curve of the ZS5v2?
> 
> I'm planning on downgrading from my ZS6 and getting the ZS5 instead, and I'm curious to see if the treble on the ZS5v2 is more tamed.


ZS5v2 has "same" treble as ZS6, so, downgrade to ZS5v2 doesn`t help you. Unfortunately finding ZS5v1 is impossible, it`s not on sale anymore as I know. 

About cables... I`m all about HQ OFC cables rather than cheapo "silver" plated unknown quality copper ones. But if it measures >=0.5 Ohm, it is usually good enough for everything.
Well, at least with my gear. My DX5X output impedance should be >0.5Ohm, probably even lower due to hardware modifications. That`s why I`m getting different results with my ZS5v1 as many here. Additionally, many try to "tame" highs by foams instead wide bore silicones (which actually balance sound even more), which also increases my results difference.


----------



## fredhubbard2

chinmie said:


> How is the ZST compared to the ZS5?



to my ears the ZS5 is like a very refined ZST , a bit brighter, brings more detail and a wider soundstage.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

tonality on the zs5 is improved as well.  Just gotta live with the sizzly sss's now that v2s are all you can find.


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> This isn't the best one, but its better than nothing. I have a number of ZS5 v1 ans ZS6. But this is the only ZS5 v2 that I've ever seen shared. Someone posted it a while ago and I saved it, knowing I'd need it at some point in the future LOL
> 
> Maybe someone has a better one?


----------



## chinmie

fredhubbard2 said:


> to my ears the ZS5 is like a very refined ZST , a bit brighter, brings more detail and a wider soundstage.



Silly me, i didn't realize i've mis-typed  my question until you replied .. I'm sorry

what i meant was how was the ZSR compared to the ZS5


----------



## Puggie

Has anyone done a teardown of the grey ZS6s (or any of the others)? I have a pair here and some tools. Would it be beneficial for the forum if I pulled them apart and posted pic and numbers of the internal components?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 26, 2018)

Puggie said:


> Has anyone done a teardown of the grey ZS6s (or any of the others)? I have a pair here and some tools. Would it be beneficial for the forum if I pulled them apart and posted pic and numbers of the internal components?



Thanks for the offer. I think the most useful thing would be to use a sewing needle to gently/safely remove the mesh screen without bending it. Then take a magnifying glass and see if you can make out if the balanced armatures are identical or not. There was an image posted that suggests that KZ may now be using two different BA models in the ZS5, ZS6 and perhaps using said BAs in the newest member of the family, the ZSR.  


 
Note the different model numbers for the BAs in the ZS5, (above).

For the ZS6 all we need to know is if KZ is using two separate models of BAs; one for treble and one for upper midrange. If you can then replace your mesh screen back on the nozzle unaltered then your peering in for a better look will have a minimum effect on your new ZS6. The alleged improvement to bass response would be a crossover issue, but I suppose a photo wouldn't hurt.

If you have an earlier model of the ZS6 in addition to your new grey ZS6 then a good track to test bass response on is one of the following:


Spoiler


----------



## Puggie

I just have the grey ZS6s only one pair. I'm hoping to do some proper acoustic measurements, but since moving from a Mac to Pc I have lost the use of Fuzzmeasure, my budget measurement tool of choice. I will whip a grille out later today and have a look under a magnifier. I@ve been meaning to try the M2 washer mod for better bass.


----------



## nxnje

Been comparing my memt x5 with my old zs3.
ZS3 sounds a bit darker, while memt x5 actually shows up some good detail even if the mids are still recessed. 
Lows are a bit less deep but difference is very very very very lilttle, but i'm really surprised on how the tiny memt x5 can make kicks so punchy and basses so deep. I would never expect such performances from these little drivers and i tip them instead of zs3.
Foam tips are anyway tipped, can't pull them out as they're the best thing i've ever tried.


----------



## fredhubbard2

chinmie said:


> Silly me, i didn't realize i've mis-typed  my question until you replied .. I'm sorry
> 
> what i meant was how was the ZSR compared to the ZS5



good question ...wouldn't mind the answer to that myself LOL


----------



## ricemanhk

It's been a while since I posted here...my ZS5v1 still going strong but the silicone tips keep sliding off after some use when ear wax/oil eventually gets on it.  A good washing with soap will solve it but it'll happen again after a few weeks.  

How is ZS6 and ZSR vs ZS5v1?  I'm finding ZS3 and ZST more comfy than ZS5 so thinking of ZSR, but not sure if it's a regression from ZS5.  Is the wider bore making the tips more secure or did they finally add back a notch like in the ZS3/ZST?

And when is that 5 driver (originally ZSR pro) coming...?


----------



## Slater

Puggie said:


> I just have the grey ZS6s...I've been meaning to try the M2 washer mod for better bass.



The advantage of the washer (besides being able to convert them into filters), is that it provides the bore size restriction for you (allowing the use of any tips).

In the mean time, you could try some silicone tips with realllly small openings. I mean, smaller than the KZ Starlines, which are 4mm. The KZ EDR2 comes with such tips, and if you look around Aliexpress you can find some. The smaller the bore the better.

You could also try this method the Russian audio community developed (I would try it with and without the stock "cheese grater" nozzle screen though): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1848#post-14013203


----------



## CoiL

ricemanhk said:


> It's been a while since I posted here...my ZS5v1 still going strong but the silicone tips keep sliding off after some use when ear wax/oil eventually gets on it.  A good washing with soap will solve it but it'll happen again after a few weeks.


Seriously consider trying these tips as they have quite "small" lower center bore but soft rubber that fits well and secure for ZS5v1, keeping nozzle inner diameter actually large:





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...phone-Earphone-Free-Shipping/32800300429.html


----------



## bsoplinger

ricemanhk said:


> It's been a while since I posted here...my ZS5v1 still going strong but the silicone tips keep sliding off after some use when ear wax/oil eventually gets on it.  A good washing with soap will solve it but it'll happen again after a few weeks.
> 
> How is ZS6 and ZSR vs ZS5v1?  I'm finding ZS3 and ZST more comfy than ZS5 so thinking of ZSR, but not sure if it's a regression from ZS5.  Is the wider bore making the tips more secure or did they finally add back a notch like in the ZS3/ZST?
> 
> And when is that 5 driver (originally ZSR pro) coming...?


I solved this problem for myself using foamies by buying ones with a smaller bore, 4.0mm and 4.5mm, instead of the default 4.9mm. I'd guess that a similar solution would help you but unfortunately all I know of are silicone tips with a 3.0mm bore for things like Westone and some NuForce. Perhaps a search on Aliexpress.com explicitly for 4.0mm silicone ear tips might yield useful results.


----------



## Puggie

Hi All

So I had a look at the ZS6, the BAs look identical through the nozzle I could only see the exits though, not the sides to read anything, or the rears to check for passives.
The wiring is + and - in on the connector, this goes to the 10mm Bass driver, the -ve wire distributes to all drivers, the BAs have a 19.0Ohm resistor in series with their +ve cable and are wired in parallel, the 6mm sub driver has a 13.2Ohm resistor in series with it on the back. Everything seems to be assembled with a sensible modest amount of quality very flexible glue. I will try and post some pics later.

If anyone esp UK based has a dead pair or odd driver I could exchange for a few beer tokens to dissect further, let me know. I'd be interested in the casings to have a play with some drivers I have.


----------



## SiggyFraud

So I had to open up my left ZSR today - the part marked in the pic got pushed in while inserting the 2 pin cable, and there was some residue in one of the vent holes. Managed to fix both issues and put it all back together. No sound deterioration so far.
Anyway, I thought some of you might want to see the pics.


----------



## durwood (Feb 26, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> Anyone here got a FR curve of the ZS5v2?
> 
> I'm planning on downgrading from my ZS6 and getting the ZS5 instead, and I'm curious to see if the treble on the ZS5v2 is more tamed.



That was my ZS5v2 graph slater linked you to, I just received my pair of black ZS6. I will measure the ZS6 tonight against that ZS5v2 again so you can compare straight up. I don't think the treble is tamed, I find them both bright but tolerable at lower listening levels. If anything I think the ZS5v2 seems brighter just because the relative bass level is lower making the treble more prominent on the ZS5v2, but I need to do more comparing.


----------



## mrmoto050

base08 said:


> Hum their marketing material changed... and the two different pages and prices over GearBest some time ago, makes me feel that indeed was a different batch with upgraded internals... but I guess only time will time...


My original pair were black and the new ZS6 I purchased are Grey (which I am not sure they offered color when I bought black) I notice a difference between the 2, the grey ones are more balanced overall Bass/Mids/Highs to me. I have not taken them apart other than the sides off . Did not take internals out.


----------



## mrmoto050

Slater said:


> The main one that started the speculation is the grey one, since it has its own separate marketing page on Gearbest, is more expensive than the other colors, and is the only one that has a unique "extra bass" designation.
> 
> The belief is that when KZ discontinued the green ZS6 and replaced it with the grey one, they used it as an opportunity to tweak the tuning.
> 
> ...


Agreed, the grey one is the new color that wasn't offered before.


----------



## zazaboy

So the grey one is v2 ... What about red KZ zs6?


----------



## groucho69

AFAIK no one has proven that a V2 exists.


----------



## Puggie

This is my grey ZS6s, opened up.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm sure my red ZS6 sounds different from my Green ZS6. It must be the tips


----------



## zazaboy

@HungryPanda what sounds different mids,treble or soundstage which do you like more the reds or greens ?


----------



## zazaboy

and btw why are kz zs6 sound different from each other why does some users report that they are different in the mid lows/mids/high arent those the new versions I dont get it


----------



## cottonbud

zazaboy said:


> and btw why are kz zs6 sound different from each other why does some users report that they are different in the mid lows/mids/high arent those the new versions I dont get it


Mostly because people hear things differently. Sometime because manufacturing defects and wrong cable polarity.


----------



## groucho69

What he said.


----------



## base08

Following very closely this detective case on "the elusive KZ ZS6 v2"

Joking aside, sorry if I kickstarted and derailed the thread to the V1 vs mythical V2 discussion, on what was before, a productive, ongoing talk about the KZ ZSR  feedback and overall impression...


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 26, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I'm sure my red ZS6 sounds different from my Green ZS6. It must be the tips


I noticed that the red ones were offered substantially cheaper than the grey ones at gearbest early this month. Could it be that the grey ones are the allegedly improved model?. 

P.S. I just checked: and now the great ones are substantially cheaper than the grey ones. Makes no sense.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Has anyone tried applying sorbothane to the back of a KZ IEM? @Slater have you ever sorbed a ZS5 or something?


----------



## Slater (Feb 26, 2018)

Puggie said:


> This is my grey ZS6s, opened up.



OK, hold on to your pants folks; there's definitely something weird going on.

After studying these photos of the grey one, *I am seeing a few subtle differences*. Initially, I thought "ah HA! Proof of ZS6 v2!". Well, *not so fast*.

After thoroughly examining internals of PREVIOUS ZS6, it seems there has *ALREADY been (at least) 2 versions of the ZS6*, and for a *WHILE NOW*. In other words, BEFORE the grey 'extra bass' version; all the way back to 'regular' ZS6s purchased in *September 2017 and before*!

1. There are (2) different 6mm midrange dynamic drivers.

The original one had the driver vent in the CENTER - the same one used on both ZS*5* v1 and ZS*5* v2. Pay attention to the little round white 'filter' on the back of the driver: Here's what it looks like *(BLACK ZS6 in these examples):*





The other type has the driver vent OFFSET to one side. Pay attention to the little round white 'filter' on the back of the driver *(GREEN and RED ZS6 in these examples):*





And finally, here's the photo posted today of the *GREY 'extra bass' ZS6*:




2. The 2nd difference is a small 200 ohm SMD resistor attached to the 6mm midrange dynamic driver. It appears there's (2) variations.

ZS6 *WITH* the 200 ohm resistor:
 

And ZS6 *WITHOUT* the 200 ohm resistor (including the grey 'extra bass' model in the 2nd photo):



Now, the photos don't lie - *there are differences between ZS6*.

However, the sample size is too small (at this time) to know the following:

1. What sound differences there are between the 2 versions.
2. If there are MORE than 2 versions (ie if the grey 'extra bass' version is actually a 3RD VERSION).
3. If all of a specific color is configured like X or Y, or if it's completely random.
4. What effect the 200 ohm resistor controls with regards to the sound.
5. What the BA configuration is - it is currently unknown (ie proof) if there's anything other than the BA configuration of 2x30095 (evidenced by the photo below). There may be a different configuraton, but at this point *the only way to know will be to physically remove the BAs and look*. You can't tell by just peeking down the nozzle.


----------



## zazaboy

Otto Motor said:


> I noticed that the red ones were offered substantially cheaper than the grey ones at gearbest early this month. Could it be that the grey ones are the allegedly improved model?.
> 
> P.S. I just checked: and now the great ones are substantially cheaper than the grey ones. Makes no sense.


 i thought the cheaper red version of KZ zs6 back then  was v2 .. And some users reported here that the treble got fixed with smoother sound signature on the red KZ zs6 .. I hope i did the right decision to buy red version ... Anyway we will see soon


----------



## zazaboy

Slater said:


> OK, hold on to your pants folks; there's definitely something weird going on.
> 
> After studying these photos of the grey one, *I am seeing a few subtle differences*. Initially, I thought "ah HA! Proof of ZS6 v2!". Well, *not so fast*.
> 
> ...


 what about the sound which one is better or are they the same in sound signature.. thanks for info


----------



## mbwilson111

I have had my green ZS6 since last October.  I am happy with the sound of mine but have no idea if all the green ones are identical.

No, I am not opening them!


----------



## Slater (Feb 26, 2018)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Has anyone tried applying sorbothane to the back of a KZ IEM? @Slater have you ever sorbed a ZS5 or something?



Not sorbothane, but I have been experimenting with coating the inside of rear covers of certain IEMs with a thick rubberized coating (brushed-on plastidip, in multiple layers) to provide isolation and absorb reflections.

I've had good luck with coating the rear (inside) of full size headphone driver cups, so I figured I'd try the same method with IEMs. The nice thing about plastidip is that it's easy to apply, has the ability for a controllable application, and provides complete coverage of surfaces (vs cutting/fitting dynamat, elastomeric foam, sorbothane). It's also non-destroctive, and 100% removable by simply peeling it off.

So far I have not noticed much on IEMs, however that doesn't mean there aren't any (it just may not be that noticeable to me).

Lately the type of tuning mods I've been interested in are becoming more and more granular and subtle, and I've desired a way to approach the tuning more scientifically. I am currently working on a FRR measurement setup that will allow much better control over the effect of tuning mods.


----------



## Slater (Feb 26, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> i thought the cheaper red version of KZ zs6 back then  was v2 .. And some users reported here that the treble got fixed with smoother sound signature on the red KZ zs6 .. I hope i did the right decision to buy red version ... Anyway we will see soon



I've never heard that information. All of the initial colors were released at the same time last year (black, red, green). The only change to the ZS6 lineup was the introduction of the grey color, which replaced the discontinued green color. That happened in December.

Do you have links to the where the 'red is different' info was discussed? Thanks.



zazaboy said:


> what about the sound which one is better or are they the same in sound signature.. thanks for info



Sorry friend, I don't have the answer yet, as my grey 'extra bass' ZS6 hasn't arrived yet.

That's why in my post I wrote:

_"However, the sample size is too small (at this time) to know the following:

1. What sound differences there are between the 2 versions."_


----------



## Otto Motor (Feb 27, 2018)

I spend 5 minutes on the "Slater mod" replacing the stock nylon grilles with metal mesh on the KZ EDR2. Now I have been struggling for the last 20 mins to figure out the sonic difference.

The biggest difference I hear when inserting the same set differently. Very confusing.


----------



## NeonHD

durwood said:


> That was my ZS5v2 graph slater linked you to, I just received my pair of black ZS6. I will measure the ZS6 tonight against that ZS5v2 again so you can compare straight up. I don't think the treble is tamed, I find them both bright but tolerable at lower listening levels. If anything I think the ZS5v2 seems brighter just because the relative bass level is lower making the treble more prominent on the ZS5v2, but I need to do more comparing.



Yeah I saw that horrid treble spike on the graph, it's nearly as 'peaky' as the ZS6.


----------



## NeonHD

zazaboy said:


> i thought the cheaper red version of KZ zs6 back then  was v2 .. And some users reported here that the treble got fixed with smoother sound signature on the red KZ zs6 .. I hope i did the right decision to buy red version ... Anyway we will see soon



My red ZS6 sure didn't sound like it had a tame treble. I did a rough FR measurement a while ago and that 10Khz treble spike was still very dominant:


----------



## durwood (Feb 26, 2018)

Here is my ZS5v2 compared to the ZS6 black I just received a few days ago. White=ZS5 Blue=ZS6 It appears most of the difference lies between 1500-5Kish and the treble peak slightly shifted higher in the ZS6, or just a measurement variation.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

There's probably still a lot of black and red stock floating around.  If we want to determine if there is actually a new revision, we need some gray ZS6s tested.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Slater said:


> The advantage of the washer (besides being able to convert them into filters), is that it provides the bore size restriction for you (allowing the use of any tips).


Where can I read about it in details or see the pictures?


----------



## C2thew (Feb 28, 2018)

Here's a picture from my black ZS6 .  I don't see that 200 resistor on my recent one either.

black, red, blue <---- KZ ZS6 v1

grey <--- KZ ZS6 v2?  (higher price?  or is it higher demand since it looks nicer?)


----------



## C2thew

Puggie said:


> This is my grey ZS6s, opened up.



Do you have another picture with the red connector out of the way of the speaker?


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## Puggie (Feb 27, 2018)

Slater said:


> That's why in my post I wrote:
> 
> _"However, the sample size is too small (at this time) to know the following:
> 
> 1. What sound differences there are between the 2 versions."_



My guess is KZ buy drivers in batches and they vary slightly from one to the next, the tweaks in values of the passive accounts for this. I'll bet that '200 ohm' resistor is a 20, mine have a 19ohm in that position. I will try and measuremthe response of mine, anyone care to share their measurement rig?

EDIT: my pair measure 13.2Ohm in that position, although I am measuring in circuit... I really need an odd IEM to properly tear down.


----------



## Puggie

C2thew said:


> Do you have another picture with the red connector out of the way of the speaker?



This is the best i have


----------



## nicolanico

Otto Motor said:


> A second, quick answer:
> 1. Both are almost identical in sound
> 2. The EDR1 are less bassy and slightly heavier/more substantial to handle
> 3. At $4-5 each, buy them both and train your comparison skills
> ...



Thanks


----------



## CoiL

Oh my... another KZ revision-train going on  
Glad I jumped off from KZ IEMs... this is just getting ridiculous without KZ notifying ppl! Too many variables to recommend one KZ to someone based on personal unit.
Despite I have lot of KZs I really like and want to recommend, this sucks, quite big! 
Lately I though about having all those KZs and what I have learned from different sound signatures and modding as good cheap educational journey... but now because different revisions going on - ppl can`t even count on other IEM recommendations based of KZ IEM they own.
But I guess this is KZ business model - quanitity before quality. And as we have seen - huge new lineup coming.


----------



## vladstef

We shouldn't really be this surprised about KZ's approach. They have ZS5, ZS6 and ZSR which have many drivers and given how many units they are selling, driver sourcing is probably an issue. Not trying to justify their actions, just being realistic. A small notification or a name change would've gone a long way towards customer satisfaction, but even then, most people buying KZ IEMs do so because they look "pro" and sound at least ok - way better then mainstream budget offerings.


----------



## Puggie

Any small budget manufacturer is going to work this way, they cannot produce their own drivers or afford something of a long term established production line (Knowles Sonion etc), they will buy what they can get at the time. then when the manufacturer updates their product (the driver) that upgrade comes through to the IEM producer. The driver manufacturer probably makes 50k units then once they are in production goes into development to improve the design and keep ahead of the game. once that stock is exhausted the 'new' driver goes onto the production line.


----------



## Slater (Feb 27, 2018)

While I do understand about manufacturing production runs, and suppliers and all that, this seems like a very intentional effort on KZs part.

For example, when the ATR v1 was originally released, they ALL used 1 driver - the same driver. Now there’s an ATR v2, revised on purpose, that uses the ATE driver. All current ATRs.

Im not going to believe that KZ has a big bin of 6mm drivers, all different from different suppliers, different production runs, with potentially different sound, and they just randomly pick a driver from the bin, willy nilly, like pulling the handle on a slot machine.

If that IS the case, and it’s just an issue of having different suppliers for parts, then why does it appear that only the BLACK ZS6 is the uniquely configured model?

They certainly don’t do that with their BA drivers. There’s specific BA drivers that go into specific IEMs in specific configurations. Otherwise, we’d be seeing ZS5v1, ZS5 v2, and ZSRs with random driver configurations too.

And besides, this still doesn’t explain why some ZS6 models have the resistor and other don’t. Is that random too (“ie sure, let’s put a resistor in these 2, but not these 5, but now these 4, and not these 17...”).

I think there WAS an intentional tuning change, as evidenced at least by the 2 different 6mm driver and the resistors. I just don’t know yet WHEN the change happened and what colors it affects.

Maybe the black ones are the “old” one, and all colors but black are the different design (red, green, and grey). So far, the black ones have been the only one with the resistors and the ‘center hole’ 6mm driver.

When I get home tonight I’m going to check my black and red pair, as they are the most recent ones I’ve received (in January) other than the grey one I just ordered. If my newest black one is still the only one with the unique configuration, then that’s pretty strong evidence IMO.


----------



## aspire5550

Hey guys, lets me share something with you guys about chinese manufacturers.  There is a brand of mechanical keyboard called Plum or NIZ, they are both under the same boss. The company is also similar compared to KZ where they manufacture budget products which punch above its price.  In a recent interview, he was asked if they did any hardware revision to their keyboards, he admitted that they actually did improve the keyboard in various aspect. 

Because all these changes were not documented or publicised, they all mainly went undetected. The fans all actually asked the boss to document it somewhere so that people are aware that Plum/Niz do make improvement and tweaks to their products to make them better. When people are aware that this company do go all the extra steps to make sure their products are good, more people will want to buy the product more, the sales will just shoot up. The boss's response was simply, "I am happy with our current sales number, I don't see a reason to document the tweaks and small changes made to the keyboards."

So I am not shocked to see that KZ do make improvements or tweaks or changes to their products without announcing the changes. Maybe this is some common practice in the companies in china?


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> ... Otherwise, we’d be seeing ZS5v1, ZS5 v2, and ZSRs with random driver configurations too...



Isn't ZS5v1 and v2 exactly the example of this? I mostly believe now that they just didn't have enough of the upper mid range BAs that were in the body of ZS5v1 and just doubled the ones in the nozzle to keep calling it a 4 driver IEM. It was a pretty random move since everyone liked v1 more than v2 but more importantly, they didn't even bother explaining.
Obviously, not everything that they do is random, but it does appear that they are making at least some revisions not to improve sound but to adjust to their driver supplies using drivers with similar responses. Again, I am limiting everything I say to 'some', there just isn't enough evidence to say this conclusively.


----------



## Otto Motor

nicolanico said:


> Thanks


Warning: Slater reported the EDR2 is less bassy...maybe we have different revisions. I find both so close that it almost comes down to colour. Received two more EDR2 yesterday. They really do compare well to substantially more expensive earphones.


----------



## nicolanico

Otto Motor said:


> Warning: Slater reported the EDR2 is less bassy...maybe we have different revisions. I find both so close that it almost comes down to colour. Received two more EDR2 yesterday. They really do compare well to substantially more expensive earphones.



ok


----------



## DocHoliday

vladstef said:


> Isn't ZS5v1 and v2 exactly the example of this? I mostly believe now that they just didn't have enough of the upper mid range BAs that were in the body of ZS5v1 and just doubled the ones in the nozzle to keep calling it a 4 driver IEM. It was a pretty random move since everyone liked v1 more than v2 but more importantly, they didn't even bother explaining.
> Obviously, not everything that they do is random, but it does appear that they are making at least some revisions not to improve sound but to adjust to their driver supplies using drivers with similar responses. Again, I am limiting everything I say to 'some', there just isn't enough evidence to say this conclusively.




....or

Knowledge Zenith revised the ZS5 in response to the controversy surrounding the BA that was positioned in the cavity of the housing. The revision occurred shorty after said controversy.


----------



## nxnje

aspire5550 said:


> Hey guys, lets me share something with you guys about chinese manufacturers.  There is a brand of mechanical keyboard called Plum or NIZ, they are both under the same boss. The company is also similar compared to KZ where they manufacture budget products which punch above its price.  In a recent interview, he was asked if they did any hardware revision to their keyboards, he admitted that they actually did improve the keyboard in various aspect.
> 
> Because all these changes were not documented or publicised, they all mainly went undetected. The fans all actually asked the boss to document it somewhere so that people are aware that Plum/Niz do make improvement and tweaks to their products to make them better. When people are aware that this company do go all the extra steps to make sure their products are good, more people will want to buy the product more, the sales will just shoot up. The boss's response was simply, "I am happy with our current sales number, I don't see a reason to document the tweaks and small changes made to the keyboards."
> 
> So I am not shocked to see that KZ do make improvements or tweaks or changes to their products without announcing the changes. Maybe this is some common practice in the companies in china?



I think this is not just something that chinese manufacturers do.
I think it's something MANY companies do. Even the one where i worked for so much time improved their products (science and research machines, xray analisators etc etc) without even saying to people they were renewing something to improve their products.

I think KZ just see the feedbacks around the web and tries to change the production on the go, so they can satisfy their customer that will sure buy their products again.
Anyway, i'm gonna wait for someone to confirm ZS6 has different version.
I've read many zs5v1 enthusiastic revisions and when i decided to buy them i saw there was a v2 version that sucked compared to the v1.
Then i foused the zs6 but figured out people said it had piercing highs/big boost to the trebles, which i don't like.
I really like my actual drivers (Memt x5) but i can't still enjoy the voices at 100% as mids are recessed.
So in the zs6 i wouldh have less deep bass a more focus on the treble, which i don't like.

Is there any comparison of the ZSR with the zs6 (grey version)?
Are there some IEMS from kz coming out soon?


----------



## vladstef

DocHoliday said:


> ....or
> 
> Knowledge Zenith revised the ZS5 in response to the controversy surrounding the BA that was positioned in the cavity of the housing. The revision occurred shorty after said controversy.



Ok, perhaps this was the case, but I am not sure that it helps at all downgrading a product for the sake of removing a controversy that only a a small percentage of buyers even new or cared about. But to end an argument, KZ has done this with many of their products, including ATE, ATR, ZS1, apparently ZS6 and probably many more, taking ZS5 out of conversation changes very little.
I am a KZ fan but I don't follow them blindly and they need to be called out on this because it is irresponsible. Imagine if phone manufacturers kept changing internal components without saying anything...


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 27, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Ok, perhaps this was the case, but I am not sure that it helps at all downgrading a product for the sake of removing a controversy that only a a small percentage of buyers even new or cared about. But to end an argument, KZ has done this with many of their products, including ATE, ATR, ZS1, apparently ZS6 and probably many more, taking ZS5 out of conversation changes very little.
> I am a KZ fan but I don't follow them blindly and they need to be called out on this because it is irresponsible. Imagine if phone manufacturers kept changing internal components without saying anything...



What argument are you referring to? I've been vocal about this issue for over a year and even here on head-fi, you should feel free to peruse through my previous posts for my comments on the issue.


----------



## vladstef

DocHoliday said:


> What argument are you referring to? I've been vocal about this issue for over a year.



Should've said - 'In addition' or something similar. It's not always easy to use English expressions when it's not your native language and things can blend together.


----------



## Slater (Feb 27, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Warning: Slater reported the EDR2 is less bassy...maybe we have different revisions. I find both so close that it almost comes down to colour. Received two more EDR2 yesterday. They really do compare well to substantially more expensive earphones.



Which tips are you using? That was what caused my issue. The tips on the new white boxed EDR2s I was using had an extremely small bore that was the cause of the strong bass response (until I realized that what was going on).

Once I installed the same tip on both, the differences between the EDR1 and EDR2 was more noticeable (especially when listening back to back with the HDS3, which sounded quite similar to the EDR2 except for a difference in the quantity of sub bass).


----------



## mrmoto050

vladstef said:


> Ok, perhaps this was the case, but I am not sure that it helps at all downgrading a product for the sake of removing a controversy that only a a small percentage of buyers even new or cared about. But to end an argument, KZ has done this with many of their products, including ATE, ATR, ZS1, apparently ZS6 and probably many more, taking ZS5 out of conversation changes very little.
> I am a KZ fan but I don't follow them blindly and they need to be called out on this because it is irresponsible. Imagine if phone manufacturers kept changing internal components without saying anything...


KZ and Chinese Company's are not the only one's. In Manufacturing of products and designs, they are called "Revisions" such as Rev A, Rev B and so forth.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 27, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Should've said - 'In addition' or something similar. It's not always easy to use English expressions when it's not your native language and things can blend together.



This issue of modifying a given product without proper identification or notification is my biggest pet peeve with KZ. All of the reasons, excuses and silence from KZ are unacceptable and most assuredly unprofessional. 

I used to wonder if someone at KZ actually just hired a brother in-law or family member who needed a job, but had no idea what they were doing. Then I wondered why KZ chose not to hire competent quality control personnel. I've come to the conclusion that KZ doesn't care enough about what they've built. 

True, KZ seems to be heading in the right direction if the new "qq email" thingy now on the packaging  is an effort to address quality control, but as Joe Elliott and the boys say; 
Give me action.....action.......action, not words.


Spoiler


----------



## CoiL (Feb 27, 2018)

I personally don`t mind changes if they are pointed out clearly to customers. KZ hasn`t done it. That`s the sad thing about KZ.

+100 to what Doc just said.


----------



## Saoshyant

The last thing we need is a situation like the mRice & Baldoor E100, where nobody really knew what was going on, there was supposedly good and bad versions that had zero distinguishing characteristics, and a dozen other small issues making it difficult to track down a supposedly good unit.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> Which tips are you using? That was what caused my issue. The tips on the new white boxed EDR2s I was using had an extremely small bore that was the cause of the strong bass response (until I realized that what was going on).
> 
> Once I installed the same tip on both, the differences between the EDR1 and EDR2 was more noticeable (especially when listening back to back with the HDS3, which sounded quite similar to the EDR2 except for a difference in the quantity of sub bass).



I don't use/never tried the small-bore tips included but these (on most of my earphones unless they came with the starline tips):
https://goo.gl/VyQg3J

I find them almost the same sounding and wonder whether my perception changes every time I insert the earpieces slightly differently. 

Presently, I don't have a second pair of EDR1 (on order) to compare nylon and metal mesh.

But the main point is: both EDR1 and EDR2 are darn good.


----------



## fredhubbard2 (Feb 27, 2018)

this probs doesnt help the 'controversy', i only ordered my ZS5's about 4 weeks ago...had them for 10 days or so now....i dunno if ive got V1 or V2 or V3 or whatever but they sound amazing; i'm listening to tunes i know like the back of my hand and and they all sound fresh and new. I cant enthuse about these IEMs enough. Theres no harsh treble or sibilance or bass bloat. everything is rich and detailed with a beautifully wide soundstage...like a Havi B3 Pro1 but deeper. i love them. cant put them down.

I ordered a pair of ZSR's today so looking forward to how they compare when they arrive but ATM these are my ideal IEMs.

Much prefer them to the TinAudio T2's I received about a week before.


----------



## fredhubbard2

... what more; they seem to pair with all my sources really well. addicted to these!


----------



## khighly

I'm still waiting to buy a ZS6 so I get as close to possible of a new revision, but I may buy a pair from the KZ Official Store on Aliexpress soon. I still have one OG ZS6, so I'll eventually test with them both and see if there are any changes.


----------



## NeonHD

khighly said:


> I'm still waiting to buy a ZS6 so I get as close to possible of a new revision, but I may buy a pair from the KZ Official Store on Aliexpress soon. I still have one OG ZS6, so I'll eventually test with them both and see if there are any changes.



I would not recommend buying the ZS6 right now. I bought them in January for around $20 USD but they currently go for way above $40. I'll probably wait til late spring to buy another pair, their price should be relatively deflated by then.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> True, KZ seems to be heading in the right direction if the new "qq email" thingy now on the packaging  is an effort to address quality control



FYI, the QQ email address isn’t intended for any quality control purposes. It’s simply an email domain, like gmail, Hotmail, yahoo, etc.

Previous packages also had an email address; it was just a different address.


----------



## DocHoliday

khighly said:


> *3-4hrs:* Plugged the ZSR's into the modi/magni and they're *BASS CANNONS*. The extension down very low is still pretty disappointing. It feels like 20hz-40hz is like -5dB from 50-100Hz.You can feel it pushing air, but it _doesn't actually make any sound_. I can hear it fine in the ZS5's and IT03's. Listening to my UK [proper] Dubstep from Rinse.FM is a little disappointing so far. Soundstage is pretty typical for KZ's on par with the ZST which I thought had a fairly good soundstage.
> 
> I can't really tell you if they're comfortable since I was using the IT03's for 2-3 weeks prior and the ZSR's are almost an exact copy at least on the inner shell so my ear is already fairly used to the design. They aren't any worse than the IT03's, though the IT03's definitely hurt for at least a week while getting used to them.
> 
> ...




The whirlwinds are the eartips that work best for me on the ZSR and that monstrous nozzle.


----------



## Slater (Feb 27, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> The last thing we need is a situation like the mRice & Baldoor E100, where nobody really knew what was going on, there was supposedly good and bad versions that had zero distinguishing characteristics, and a dozen other small issues making it difficult to track down a supposedly good unit.



*cough* ZS5 *cough*

*cough* ZS1 *cough*

*cough* ATE *cough*

*cough* ATR *cough*


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> FYI, the QQ email address isn’t intended for any quality control purposes. It’s simply an email domain, like gmail, Hotmail, yahoo, etc.
> 
> Previous packages also had an email address; it was just a different address.



Back to square one then.


----------



## NeonHD

I just received my set of Torx screwdrivers today, so you know what that means...

Lo and behold I took apart the ZS6.







One of the main reasons why I needed to open the ZS6 was to examine any damages I had caused to the BA drivers, but apparently I don't think you can access the BA drivers from the back unless you remove the two other drivers, which is basically suicide.






I got some sticky tack stuck in the BAs, but when I try use a needle to scrape them out, there is literally nothing that you can scrape out, despite it still being stuck in there. I'm so confused, I don't understand BA drivers at all......


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> I just received my set of Torx screwdrivers today, so you know what that means...
> 
> Lo and behold I took apart the ZS6.



Nice, here we have yet another example of a non-black ZS6 unit with the offset 6mm driver and no resistor.

And you’re right about the BA drivers - once the 10mm dynamic is sealed in place, the BAs can only be accessed from the nozzle side.


----------



## hakuzen

Puggie said:


> Hi All
> 
> So I had a look at the ZS6, the BAs look identical through the nozzle I could only see the exits though, not the sides to read anything, or the rears to check for passives.
> The wiring is + and - in on the connector, this goes to the 10mm Bass driver, the -ve wire distributes to all drivers, the BAs have a 19.0Ohm resistor in series with their +ve cable and are wired in parallel, the 6mm sub driver has a 13.2Ohm resistor in series with it on the back. Everything seems to be assembled with a sensible modest amount of quality very flexible glue. I will try and post some pics later.
> ...


thanks for measuring the resistors!
the SMD resistor which is 200 labeled means 20Ω (SMD label convention), as you stated (you read 19Ω with your DMM).
after doing resistance calculations, it matches the total dc resistance and resistance at low frequencies i measured (gross values):

BA KZ30095: ~13Ω
DD (6mm or 10mm): ~31Ω
resistors: ~20Ω, ~14Ω

zs5v1 (no resistors): DD || DD || BA || BA. total dc resistance:  ~4.5Ω
zs6: [R1 + (BA || BA)] || [R2 + (DD || DD)]. total dc resistance: ~14Ω


----------



## Squalo (Feb 27, 2018)

You guys should focus your attention to the larger dynamic.

Look at all of the last 3 pictures posted; C2thew - black, Puggie - grey, NeonHD - red. A mesh covers the driver and appears "white" in the center, the vent. A washer/ring (plastic i guess) covers the outer side of the driver under the mesh appearing "black", and then a circle of metal surounds. The white circle is significantly smaller in the last 3 ZS6 posted than it is in the pictures posted previously. And as the hole is smaller the black washer/ring is larger in these 3. I'd say the vent is about 1/3 of the previous. That's the kind of trick you can pull if you want to change the bass response of the driver. And it looks pretty consistant over all 3 pairs. (So it can indicate a moar bass or otherwise refined sig.)

Looking at older pictures the size of the black washer seems to vary a bit. Hoever the new pictures posted here show the washer being significantly larger.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLiFck1UQAAfQYG.jpg
https://forum.hkepc.net/month_1709/1709141811459194e45543a097.jpg

The non-center vent on the smaller driver seems to have been around for a while.


----------



## chinmie

fredhubbard2 said:


> this probs doesnt help the 'controversy', i only ordered my ZS5's about 4 weeks ago...had them for 10 days or so now....i dunno if ive got V1 or V2 or V3 or whatever but they sound amazing; i'm listening to tunes i know like the back of my hand and and they all sound fresh and new. I cant enthuse about these IEMs enough. Theres no harsh treble or sibilance or bass bloat. everything is rich and detailed with a beautifully wide soundstage...like a Havi B3 Pro1 but deeper. i love them. cant put them down.
> 
> I ordered a pair of ZSR's today so looking forward to how they compare when they arrive but ATM these are my ideal IEMs.
> 
> Much prefer them to the TinAudio T2's I received about a week before.



The ZS5 has great sound and fit for me using ortofon tips, love the soundstage. The only thing that bothers me is the exaggerated treble volume and position on the soundstage. It's like having the drummer on the center in front of you, but someone put the cymbals right next to you. They never sounded sibilant or splashy though, just unnaturally close. 

I like the T2 better altough the stage could be better


----------



## fredhubbard2

chinmie said:


> It's like having the drummer on the center in front of you, but someone put the cymbals right next to you. They never sounded sibilant or splashy though, just unnaturally close.
> 
> I like the T2 better altough the stage could be better



I'm a drummer so I don't mind that ha ha! altho tbf haven't really noticed that so much


----------



## chinmie

fredhubbard2 said:


> I'm a drummer so I don't mind that ha ha! altho tbf haven't really noticed that so much



Swap left to right, and you have yourself a drummer's point of view mix


----------



## CoiL

fredhubbard2 said:


> this probs doesnt help the 'controversy', i only ordered my ZS5's about 4 weeks ago...had them for 10 days or so now....i dunno if ive got V1 or V2 or V3 or whatever but they sound amazing; i'm listening to tunes i know like the back of my hand and and they all sound fresh and new. I cant enthuse about these IEMs enough. *Theres no harsh treble or sibilance or bass bloat. everything is rich and detailed with a beautifully wide soundstage*...like a Havi B3 Pro1 but deeper. i love them. cant put them down.
> I ordered a pair of ZSR's today so looking forward to how they compare when they arrive but ATM these are my ideal IEMs.
> *Much prefer them to the TinAudio T2's I received about a week before.*


Same here. I think You have v1 in Your hands&ears (lucky You!). I haven`t heard T2`s but that says lot good about ZS5v1.


chinmie said:


> The ZS5 has great sound and fit for me using ortofon tips, love the soundstage. The only thing that bothers me is the* exaggerated treble volume and position on the soundstage. It's like having the drummer on the center in front of you, but someone put the cymbals right next to you.* They never sounded sibilant or splashy though, just *unnaturally close. *
> I like the T2 better altough the stage could be better


Seems You have v2. I hear exactly opposite - outside of "headstage" imaging and good depth/distance, with nicely layered and spread out "around" You presentation.
Maybe it`s about the tips You use (foams?) that let BA (cymbals) sound more in play and DD (drums) lay back due to compressed tip edge inside ear? Who knows...


----------



## chinmie

CoiL said:


> Same here. I think You have v1 in Your hands&ears (lucky You!). I haven`t heard T2`s but that says lot good about ZS5v1.
> 
> Seems You have v2. I hear exactly opposite - outside of "headstage" imaging and good depth/distance, with nicely layered and spread out "around" You presentation.
> Maybe it`s about the tips You use (foams?) that let BA (cymbals) sound more in play and DD (drums) lay back due to compressed tip edge inside ear? Who knows...



I bought it September 2017, who knows what version it was, you surely have the better idea. I used ortofon silicon tips (i never use foam tips). I also tried the stock tips and some spinfits, but like the ortofons the best. I only had them briefly and sold them afterwards, because i like the urbanfun and einsear T2 better at the time

The soundstage is large, but to me it is a bit exaggerated and spaced out weirdly compared to my other gears (iems, earbuds, headphones and studio monitor speakers included)
Nice, large and trippy staging, but not accurate for me


----------



## CoiL

For what it counts, I compared my ZS5v1 with my desk setup (Modified Aune T1 with siemens e88cc goldpin + Fidelio X1 with custom cable) and ZS5v1 is VERY similar and accurate in imaging, layering and soundstage. I definitely wouldn`t say that ZS5v1 soundstage is exaggerated but v2 and ZS6 might sound so due to little more boosted highs and lows. 
September 2017 should be time that only ZS5v2 was available.


----------



## PantsUK

My searching is failing me and if mentioned on this thread apologies but any idea when I can get a set of balanced cables for my ZS5s and 6s ?  My googlefoo is weak with this one


----------



## Wiljen

PantsUK said:


> My searching is failing me and if mentioned on this thread apologies but any idea when I can get a set of balanced cables for my ZS5s and 6s ?  My googlefoo is weak with this one



Veclan cables  (AKA VE) has them.


----------



## DocHoliday

PantsUK said:


> My searching is failing me and if mentioned on this thread apologies but any idea when I can get a set of balanced cables for my ZS5s and 6s ?  My googlefoo is weak with this one



Do a search on Aliexpress for 2-pin and ZS6. Most cables have several configurations (2.5 balanced, 3.5  SE or 4.4 balanced). You should get about a dozen or so from multiple sellers.


----------



## CoiL

Doc ...are You sure that most of those are terminated correctly @ 4-pole TRRS ?


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 28, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Doc ...are You sure that most of those are terminated correctly @ 4-pole TRRS ?



Great question! 

I've no idea.

I suppose the only way to confirm is to purchase and test one, then post the results here for all to see.

I think the balanced cables usually start at about $30 to $40.

What's the main indication for you that calls thing in to question? 

.....uniformity of the cables in the 4 cable pic?


----------



## DSebastiao (Feb 28, 2018)

Guys, what are the differences, if any, between these two cables? I think that the second is still 3.5mm?

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/Orig...653a4f8&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...653a4f8&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## mrmoto050 (Feb 28, 2018)

You are correct, they are both SE there are only 2 rings. below is an example of balanced cable.


----------



## bsoplinger (Feb 28, 2018)

My solution for reasonably priced balanced cables is to make them myself, sort of. What I do is to buy this style upgrade cable (see comment below) 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32842791429.html

And then just solder on the appropriate 2.5mm or 3.5mm TRRS jack. You can get MMCX versions of the cable for around $10 and jacks are inexpensive. Just search for size TRRS jack and you'll find plenty of inexpensive options. Just don't include the word balance in your search because you'll end up paying a premium for a "balanced" jack which will be electrically identical to one that's made to sell as a SE + microphone jack. I use these style cables because there are 4 distinct wires from jack to earphone so its rather easy to figure out what each wire is for.

Edit: I should add that the link is to show the style of cable I'm using not the specific one. @DocHoliday reports this particular one as turning green within a few months. I was just too lazy to hunt up a link to the exact one I purchased.


----------



## CoiL

bsoplinger said:


> My solution for reasonably priced balanced cables is to make them myself, sort of. What I do is to buy this style upgrade cable
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32842791429.html
> 
> And then just solder on the appropriate 2.5mm or 3.5mm TRRS jack. You can get MMCX versions of the cable for around $10 and jacks are inexpensive. Just search for size TRRS jack and you'll find plenty of inexpensive options. Just don't include the word balance in your search because you'll end up paying a premium for a "balanced" jack which will be electrically identical to one that's made to sell as a SE + microphone jack. I use these style cables because there are 4 distinct wires from jack to earphone so its rather easy to figure out what each wire is for.


Yeah, this is the cheapest way and much more options (choice of different angle jacks + choice of cable type and looks). And if You have skills, then proper soldering will do only good.
Though, cheapest TRRS jacks are... well... CHEAP and quite crap actually. Before buying, asking feedback from h-fi DIY cable thread is highly recommended.


----------



## gazzington

Which kz iems are best for black and death metal?


----------



## CoiL

Something with fast and punchy/powerful percussion&bass (but not overdone or boosted) - ZST maybe?


----------



## DocHoliday

CoiL said:


> Doc ...are You sure that most of those are terminated correctly @ 4-pole TRRS ?



Has there been a spate of incorrectly terminated TRRS jacks from Aliexpress sellers?


----------



## DocHoliday

bsoplinger said:


> My solution for reasonably priced balanced cables is to make them myself, sort of. What I do is to buy this style upgrade cable
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Cable-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable/32842791429.html
> 
> And then just solder on the appropriate 2.5mm or 3.5mm TRRS jack. You can get MMCX versions of the cable for around $10 and jacks are inexpensive. Just search for size TRRS jack and you'll find plenty of inexpensive options. Just don't include the word balance in your search because you'll end up paying a premium for a "balanced" jack which will be electrically identical to one that's made to sell as a SE + microphone jack. I use these style cables because there are 4 distinct wires from jack to earphone so its rather easy to figure out what each wire is for.



Be aware that this cable turned bright green within 90 days.


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> Be aware that this cable turned bright green within 90 days.


I'll have to update my posting to mention that the link is to the style of cable I've purchased and not that particular one. Those I've gotten are holding up well for me but I'd have to log onto my AliExpress account and go through my orders to find out exactly what I purchased.


----------



## DSebastiao

So, is there really a v2? If so, what's the difference in terms of sound?


----------



## chinmie

CoiL said:


> For what it counts, I compared my ZS5v1 with my desk setup (Modified Aune T1 with siemens e88cc goldpin + Fidelio X1 with custom cable) and ZS5v1 is VERY similar and accurate in imaging, layering and soundstage. I definitely wouldn`t say that ZS5v1 soundstage is exaggerated but v2 and ZS6 might sound so due to little more boosted highs and lows.
> September 2017 should be time that only ZS5v2 was available.



That answers my minor gripe with the ZS5 then, as i might had the V2. No point on chasing the V1 now because the chance of finding them are slim unless getting them used. If only KZ make the ZS6 with the ZS5 configuration sound, i'll buy it. It would make a great sounding workout iem


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> So, is there really a v2? If so, what's the difference in terms of sound?



I've been working on this topic, and have made headway. I hope to be done with my teardowns and evaluations within a week, and will present the final evidence.


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> I've been working on this topic, and have made headway. I hope to be done with my teardowns and evaluations within a week, and will present the final evidence.


Master Slater, I, for one,  gaze in awe at the great lengths you are willing to travel to bring us KZ facts! (& dis-pell rumors).
Seriously though, if not for this community i would not have found KZ, and renewed my interest in affordable listening pleasure!


----------



## eteina

10 new KZ earphones launched 
KZ will ruin us all in 2018
http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/

i tried to copy the photo from that thephonograph site to share it here but i failed to rip it off


----------



## DocHoliday

Looky, looky


----------



## vladstef (Mar 1, 2018)

eteina said:


> 10 new KZ earphones launched
> KZ will ruin us all in 2018
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/
> 
> i tried to copy the photo from that thephonograph site to share it here but i failed to rip it off



All of this has been posted here sometime ago, but we didn't know about customization options that are coming.
On another note, there isn't a single 2DD IEM among these - it isn't crazy to think that they moved the job of mid range to a certain BA and perhaps we will see a push towards more neutral response in general. I am mostly excited about a 5 driver IEM obviously but also small metal ones which will probably have a micro dynamic + BA which is something that isn't that common.


----------



## PantsUK

CoiL said:


> Yeah, this is the cheapest way and much more options (choice of different angle jacks + choice of cable type and looks). And if You have skills, then proper soldering will do only good.
> Though, cheapest TRRS jacks are... well... CHEAP and quite crap actually. Before buying, asking feedback from h-fi DIY cable thread is highly recommended.



This is the way to go I feel thanks everyone for the help


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Looky, looky



Not sure what this means.

Does it mean they will sell replaceable rear covers, to be able to customize the color?

The rear covers are glued on. Not sure how they are going to achieve this.

I have a feeling that's just a poor Engrish translation, and what they're trying to say is that the ZSR is going to be available in additional colors (like the ZSE being made in blue). Or maybe certain colors will be exclusive to certain sellers (like Gearbest-exclusive colors).

Who knows though - with KZ things are always a surprise


----------



## aspire5550

Slater said:


> Not sure what this means.
> 
> Does it mean they will sell replaceable rear covers, to be able to customize the color?
> 
> ...


I think it means that you can customize it in whatever color/style combination when you order it.


----------



## Slater

aspire5550 said:


> I think it means that you can customize it in whatever color/style combination when you order it.



So basically it’s a confusing way of saying ‘it’s available in a few different colors.’


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> So basically it’s a confusing way of saying ‘it’s available in a few different colors.’



Yeah in a way, but I'd say it foes further than that. You decide everything that goes in the package, the combination of a few things (which will probably influence pricing in the end). You choose color, tip color and shape, cable material/color/connectors/mic type etc. Maybe it will be a way to save a couple of dollars by not buying regular and 'upgraded' cable but just making a choice and getting one that you want. At the same time, if given the option to go with better looking 2pin connector for a few $ more, some people will go for it = extra profit for KZ without much trouble.
Cable options do appear quite nice, transparent 2pin with black cloth cable, I am all for it.


----------



## bsoplinger

From the deals thread… KZ starlines $1 for 15 pair, eBay from China. Seems like a too good to be true price. Wonder if they're copies?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...the-first-post.692119/page-1709#post-14075453


----------



## jaydm99

bsoplinger said:


> From the deals thread… KZ starlines $1 for 15 pair, eBay from China. Seems like a too good to be true price. Wonder if they're copies?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...the-first-post.692119/page-1709#post-14075453


I don't see/feel any difference from the stock starlines that came with my ZS5. They're black starlines. Can't compare them to the grey starlines cause I don't have them. But I don't have any discomfort while wearing these. They're soft enough for my ears.


----------



## Slater (Mar 1, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Yeah in a way, but I'd say it foes further than that. You decide everything that goes in the package, the combination of a few things (which will probably influence pricing in the end). You choose color, tip color and shape, cable material/color/connectors/mic type etc. Maybe it will be a way to save a couple of dollars by not buying regular and 'upgraded' cable but just making a choice and getting one that you want. At the same time, if given the option to go with better looking 2pin connector for a few $ more, some people will go for it = extra profit for KZ without much trouble.
> Cable options do appear quite nice, transparent 2pin with black cloth cable, I am all for it.



Ah, I see now.

Drawing from my own manufacturing and sales experience, I believe this is more designed for volume purchases (such as gearbest or massdrop ordering 500pcs of a special color and cable configuration) or “private label” type customers (like the nicehck Bro/YY Pro/BGVP SGZ-DN1). Remember, KZ is an ODM manufacturer for a number of customers.

It’s completely unrealistic for small Aliexpress or eBay retail KZ sellers to stock every possible combination of an iem. For example, for just 1 single model of IEM that is offered in 5 different colors, 4 different tip combinations, 4 cable color options, and 4 different cable jack color options, that seller would have to stock 320 pieces just to be able to have ONE piece of every possible option combination. That’s not realistic.


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> Ah, I see now.
> 
> Drawing from my own manufacturing and sales experience, I believe this is more designed for volume purchases (such as gearbest or massdrop ordering 500pcs of a special color and cable configuration) or “private label” type customers (like the nicehck Bro/YY Pro/BGVP SGZ-DN1). Remember, KZ is an ODM manufacturer for a number of customers.
> 
> It’s completely unrealistic for small Aliexpress or eBay retail KZ sellers to stock every possible combination of an iem. For example, for just 1 single model of IEM that is offered in 5 different colors, 4 different tip combinations, 4 cable color options, and 4 different cable jack color options, that seller would have to stock 320 pieces just to be able to have ONE piece of every possible option combination. That’s not realistic.



It would be a new thing even if it's for batches and not singular units, but perhaps we will have an option to order exactly what we want in a personalized package from factory. It's probably not going to happen like this given how cheap KZ IEMs are compared to the work it would take to personalize individually. We'll find out soon enough.


----------



## mrmoto050

Not going to happen without significant price increase. jmo


----------



## Ynot1

Any earbuds in there?


eteina said:


> 10 new KZ earphones launched
> KZ will ruin us all in 2018
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/
> 
> i tried to copy the photo from that thephonograph site to share it here but i failed to rip it off


----------



## CoiL

KZ YZ39 is only one I`m interested in (crossover PCB + 5drivers per side). Well, I hope that price will be around 30$ max but I doubt it.


----------



## vladstef

CoiL said:


> KZ YZ39 is only one I`m interested in (crossover PCB + 5drivers per side). Well, I hope that price will be around 30$ max but I doubt it.



I think 50-60$ is realistic, but it could be even more on launch and drop to <50 over time.


----------



## DSebastiao (Mar 1, 2018)

Guys, i was going to get the ZS6, should i wait for the new ones? Would anyone one of those be better than the zs6? Also, will the cable for the zs6 work on those? I ordered one but it hasn't been shipped yet.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 1, 2018)

My best guess would be that Slater is closest to the truth. 
The giveaway is the ability to order the ZSR with your own logo on it:



 

This seems the most logical. 

Perhaps GearBest could order 1,000 pieces in blue with white writing, clear eartips and clear cables. 




 

 

Perhaps Seller XXX could order 1,000 pieces in green with gold writing, clear eartips and clear cables.


 

and Seller XYZ could order:
1,000 pieces in xxx with xxx writing, xxx eartips and xxx cables 

At any rate the four that are most interesting to me are:

***

This YZ39's 4BA+1DD might just be a one-up on the ZS6. I'd love to see KZ pull it off 


 

 

***
I've got to admit that this YZ35 piques my interest. It's a triple hybrid so, in theory, it shouldn't be replacing the ZS6. Colors, colors, colors.


 

 

***
The YZ66 due to the semi-open faceplate, interesting form factor and materials used in a 2BA+1DD  package.


 

 

***
The YZ63 primarily because it looks small enough to get a micro-driver for tight/fast bass to compliment the BA's technical abilities. Throw in that aluminum housing with rear vents and I'm interested. It may just be the refined HDS1 sound signature I've been longing for.


 

 

Conjecture.....conjecture. ...

.....but I'm all ears!

Hold on a minute! Where are the white ZSR's?!?!


----------



## DSebastiao (Mar 1, 2018)

If i was confused with the "order" of things, now i'm even more, the YZ39 seems to be the new top ones, but they're not semi open and don't look as premium as the zs6, the yz35 are very similar to the zs6, i honestly don't know what to do, and why does the yz39 have more drivers and overall seems better than all the other's with higher model number's? Damn.

But man, those YZ39 look GREAT.


----------



## oyobass

DSebastiao said:


> If i was confused with the "order" of things, now i'm even more, the YZ39 seems to be the new top ones, but they're not semi open and don't look as premium as the zs6, the yz35 are very similar to the zs6, i honestly don't know what to do, and why does the yz39 have more drivers and overall seems better than all the other's with higher model number's? Damn.


KZ seems to like to create and perpetuate a bit of mystery. I believe it serves to keep the buzz on the internet alive, creates debates and the KZ brand being talked about long past the initial "it's new!" stage...
I could be wrong, of course...


----------



## mbwilson111

I like the look of the KZ YZ40....Purple!


----------



## rayliam80

I'm excited yet I'm overwhelmed. I hope they're not released all at once.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 1, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> If i was confused with the "order" of things, now i'm even more........I honestly don't know what to do.





> I'm excited yet I'm overwhelmed. I hope they're not released all at once.



Hold your breath and head into Knowledge Zenith's 2018 maelstrom......


----------



## vladstef (Mar 1, 2018)

@DocHoliday , you might've missed the blue/red one (YZ34) - it has ZS7 written on it. It's a very interesting lineup especially given how many 1+1 hybrids there are - I think that KZ is stepping up their balanced armature game and they must have multiple different price points for drivers. Their 4BA model needs to have tubes and probably dampeners which will be a whole new world for KZ (they always used BAs directly in the nozzle and at least one of their new IEMs will up the game).


----------



## bsoplinger

The YZ35 looks like if you imagine that the body of the ZS6 was putty and you squished inwards in the long direction. With the smaller body I'd think less people would complain about it being uncomfortable.


----------



## eteina

Ynot1 said:


> Any earbuds in there?


those are some DIY skills! if i try i burn my apartment


----------



## CoiL

So... modders... get some stock of cheapo ZS3 cuz You won`t find such shells so cheap anymore soon! I have 2 for modding and probably going to get more if I get them for around 4$ again.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 1, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Hold your breath and head into Knowledge Zenith's 2018 maelstrom......




In the words of the inimitable Charles Dickens, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.".



 

This is a critical moment in KZ's history where things can take off considerably 

....but

If KZ doesn't get competent quality control implemented throughout their manufacturing processes then more models will only exacerbate the lack of consistency in finished product and KZ could be biting off more than they can chew. They'll either be a household name for "best price:value ratio" or they'll be a household name for less than desirable reasons. Remember, bad news travels twice as fast as good news. A deterioration in quality would be "just desserts" for failing to address the issue at hand. We've all been vocal about it. Let's see if KZ has the wherewithal to act accordingly.


----------



## Otto Motor

CoiL said:


> KZ YZ39 is only one I`m interested in (crossover PCB + 5drivers per side). Well, I hope that price will be around 30$ max but I doubt it.


$80...my guess!


----------



## Otto Motor

I had written 8 months ago on audiobudget.com, before the ZS6 were announced: 
"...OUTLOOK: we are already anxiously awaiting the release of the KZ ZS7 in September [2017]. They will sport 11 drivers each side and cost $57. This time, the design will be "borrowed" from Shure. They will sound so spectacular that Igor will have to make up a 6th star to do them justice. And as we start receiving our mail orders from China after long delays, KZ release their ZS9 just in time for Christmas (17 drivers per side; $87).

Not too far off.


----------



## CoiL

Price can`t go so high for KZ due to other very respected brands/products with proper QC and RMA offering very high SQ just tad under 100$ (Atm iBasso & TFZ & Tin are great example) and KZ has nothing to stand up with those, not even close. I do not belive they will make such big leap and ppl start buying their "flagship" so much as they would like - that price segment is full of very good offerings with lot of extras in package.


----------



## riffrafff

DocHoliday said:


> In the words of the inimitable Charles Dickens, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, their QC department really needs to up their game if these new models are not going to be just a flash in the pan.


----------



## paulindss (Mar 1, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Price can`t go so high for KZ due to other very respected brands/products with proper QC and RMA offering very high SQ just tad under 100$ (Atm iBasso & TFZ & Tin are great example) and KZ has nothing to stand up with those, not even close. I do not belive they will make such big leap and ppl start buying their "flagship" so much as they would like - that price segment is full of very good offerings with lot of extras in package.



I am not sure, Kz brand is already HUGE by that time. Here in brazil for example, kz's are becoming well know by youtube reviews and such things, that people are selling them by the hundreds and overpriced in local websites, and the fame is spreading mouth to mouth. Much of these people aren't exacly people that would go to a forum of headphones to know such brands as TFZ. So, if kz wanted to build up his price, well, i think that people would buy. As, another market is being reached by the brand. However, i don't believe i nothing close to 80$, it's too much. I think that most probably they will build up the price of its flagship for something like 60$ at launch. Wich is reasonable for a 5 driver, 4 ba iem in kz price policy. Assuming that they sound good.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 1, 2018)

KZ jumped from $5-12 earphones to $30-55 earphones (initial pricing). I speculate they will continue this climb, at least for their top models. Their new lineup looks very ambitious. There are presently no 10 driver earphones below $100 to my knowledge.


----------



## oyobass

paulindss said:


> I am not sure, Kz brand is already HUGE by that time. Here in brazil for example, kz's are becoming well know by youtube reviews and such things, that people are selling them by the hundreds and overpriced in local websites, and the fame is spreading mouth to mouth. Much of these people aren't exacly people that would go to a forum of headphones to know such brands as TFZ. So, if kz wanted to build up his price, well, i think that people would buy. As, another market is being reached by the brand. However, i don't believe i nothing close to 80$, it's too much. I think that most probably they will build up the price of its flagship for something like 60$ at launch. Wich is reasonable for a 5 driver, 4 ba iem in kz price policy. Assuming that they sound good.


I follow several Brazilian musicians and audio engineers on Instagram. An amazing guitarist by the name of Juliana Vieria has been talking up the M7-Pro a few times lately. Almost makes me want to try them. Almost.


----------



## riffrafff

paulindss said:


> I am not sure, Kz brand is already HUGE by that time. Here in brazil for example, kz's are becoming well know by youtube reviews and such things, that people are selling them by the hundreds and overpriced in local websites, and the fame is spreading mouth to mouth. Much of these people aren't exacly people that would go to a forum of headphones to know such brands as TFZ. So, if kz wanted to build up his price, well, i think that people would buy. As, another market is being reached by the brand. However, i don't believe i nothing close to 80$, it's too much. I think that most probably they will build up the price of its flagship for something like 60$ at launch. Wich is reasonable for a 5 driver, 4 ba iem in kz price policy. Assuming that they sound good.



If KZ wants to play with the big boys, they'll need distributors.  Waiting 3-8 (+) weeks for delivery from China doesn't fly at these levels.


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 2, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> If KZ wants to play with the big boys, they'll need distributors.  Waiting 3-8 (+) weeks for delivery from China doesn't fly at these levels.


If KZ will keep making very good product with low price, nobody will care about these 3-8 weeks i guess. At least waiting is worth it for me.
Btw, I know at least two or three people in my city who's selling (not only) KZ products with very little percent above a price. If I don't want to wait I go to this guys and buy headphones in one day.


----------



## oyobass

riffrafff said:


> If KZ wants to play with the big boys, they'll need distributors.  Waiting 3-8 (+) weeks for delivery from China doesn't fly at these levels.


In the US if you don't want to wait too long, Amazon carries most recent KZ headphones. You'll pay a (much) higher price than Gearbest or Ali Express, but you'll get your headphones (much) sooner.

I can deal with the wait. I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas many times a year...


----------



## DocHoliday

My take on the KZ ZSR: 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/


----------



## WalterTorino

oyobass said:


> In the US if you don't want to wait too long, Amazon carries most recent KZ headphones. You'll pay a (much) higher price than Gearbest or Ali Express, but you'll get your headphones (much) sooner.
> 
> *I can deal with the wait. I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas many times a year...*


Yep, right words  For sure, sometimes waiting is the best part of a purchase process


----------



## fluteloop

polycarb/alloy hybrid was my main hope. i like alloy nozzle strength... or as edbassmaster would say, Strempf.


----------



## fluteloop

it's funny when you wait 8 weeks and the thing you waited for is just horrible in every way, I always laugh.


----------



## oyobass

Drumkrunk said:


> it's funny when you wait 8 weeks and the thing you waited for is just horrible in every way, I always laugh.


Like getting an ugly (really ugly) sweater for Christmas, lol.


----------



## WalterTorino

Drumkrunk said:


> it's funny when you wait 8 weeks and the thing you waited for is just horrible in every way, I always laugh.


Thankfully, Russia is close to China and usually 2 weeks is a max time i have to wait
But you're right, if at the end you realize that you've bought some piece of s**t - it hurts and nothing's left but laugh


----------



## WalterTorino

oyobass said:


> Like getting an ugly (really ugly) sweater for Christmas, lol.


Lol, i got one) But it's not very ugly i guess


----------



## nadezhda 6004

How much is the balanced cable (2.5mm) for ZS6 at gearbest?


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 2, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> How much is the balanced cable (2.5mm) for ZS6 at gearbest?



Ever since the topic came up in this thread a few days ago nearly all of the prices for 0.75mm  2-pin aftermarket upgrade cables have nearly doubled in price which means the seller's are price-gouging because they see us coming so I'd wait a while and let them sit on their stock since they seem to want to take advantage of us here. I had a full order set to go with a total price of $108 for 5 cables. That price, for the same exact cables is now in excess of $200. They can keep their cables. KZ's upgrade cables aren't as pretty/handsome but they haven't changed the prices just because they saw us coming,  so......

It's been said that character is what you do when no one else is looking. Now we know a little more about the character of some of the sellers that monitor this thread. I always say, give a person with low character enough rope and he will surely hang himself.

Choose wisely!



> He was never a hero but in the words of Clint Eastwood's infamous Little Bill Daggett:
> 
> "I don't like men of low character"


----------



## WalterTorino

Blin, tell me why some of you boys and girls want balanced cable? Do you have players that have only 2,5mm entrance? Actually, balanced stuff were made for proffessional using if you have to work with long cables for example. Everything you get with balanced stuff is higher price and maybe less noize in headphones. Is it worth it??


----------



## CoiL (Mar 2, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> Blin, tell me why some of you boys and girls want balanced cable? Do you have players that have only 2,5mm entrance? Actually, balanced stuff were made for proffessional using if you have to work with long cables for example. Everything you get with balanced stuff is higher price and maybe less noize in headphones. *Is it worth it??*


Depends on source gear. It`s not about 2.5mm socket/jack (there are different size socket/jack). It`s about balanced-output in Your player with separated/independent DACs&opamps for each channel. If You have such balanced output, then it is worth it imo.
If You don`t have balanced output and just want to have "balanced" cable, then of course no use of it. Some novice users think that just buying balanced cable makes everything better, despite having SE output, LOL.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Mar 5, 2018)

I bit the bullet and ordered some Balanced cables for my ZS6. At least I don't have to worry about quality.


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 2, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Depends on source gear. It`s not about 2.5mm socket/jack (there are different size socket/jack). It`s about balanced-output in Your player with separated/independent DACs&opamps for each channel. If You have such balanced output, then it is worth it imo.
> If You don`t have balanced output and just want to have "balanced" cable, then of course no use of it. Some novice users think that just buying balanced cable makes everything better, despite having SE output, LOL.


Thanks!
Yep, i know that it's not only about 2,5mm. entrance, it's about 4-pin connector too for example. And for sure output is a main thing.
As i know balanced kind of connection almost "kills" any LF. At least makes amount of LF is much less than it could be.
Is it true?


----------



## MrSlim (Mar 2, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> Thanks!
> Yep, i know that it's not only about 2,5mm. entrance, it's about 4-pin connector too for example. And for sure output is a main thing.
> As i know balanced kind of connection almost "kills" any LF. At least makes amount of LF is much less than it could be.
> Is it true?


What is your info to back that up?  A balanced connection should have no bearing on frequency response, if done properly. In fact, most balanced outputs should have more power(and thus more control) since both sides of the connection are driven (ie L+ and L-, vs L+ and ground/return)

Now that I think about it, a balanced connection could have lower impedance, which means that it would be able to better control the drivers, and thus sound "tighter" and better controlled.  Less bloated..  but thats a good thing right?


----------



## nadezhda 6004

WalterTorino said:


> Tell me why some of you boys and girls want balanced cable?


I have L&P L3 player with a balanced (2.5mm), SPDF  and 3.5mm outputs. According to the reviews using a balanced cable makes the player sound as if it is a different device (for the better but not worse). I bought mmcx balanced cable (for Sendiy M1221) for 15 bucks but it sucks to buy a balanced cable for ZS6 twice as much.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

mrmoto050 said:


> I bit the bullet and ordered some FiiO Balanced for my ZS6. At least I don't have to worry about quality.


How much and where (you bought it from)?


----------



## WalterTorino

MrSlim said:


> What is your info to back that up?  A balanced connection should have no bearing on frequency response, if done properly. In fact, most balanced outputs should have more power(and thus more control) since both sides of the connection are driven (ie L+ and L-, vs L+ and ground/return)


I do not argue about it, it seems to be logical, but on a couple of russian music web-pages I saw information that balanced connection can cause a bass loose. Maybe it's true if it made not properly?


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 2, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> I have L&P L3 player with a balanced (2.5mm), SPDF  and 3.5mm outputs. According to the reviews using a balanced cable makes the player sound as if it is a different device (for the better but not worse). I bought mmcx balanced cable (for Sendiy M1221) for 15 bucks but it sucks to buy a balanced cable for ZS6 twice as much.


Thank you for information, it's interesting 
I agree about zs6 situation - it's almost useless to use such cable with them.


----------



## mrmoto050

nadezhda 6004 said:


> How much and where (you bought it from)?


$39.00 Amazon on line.


----------



## jeromeaparis

DocHoliday said:


> My take on the KZ ZSR:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/



Great review of the ZSR, + vs ZS6, Thanks !


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> My take on the KZ ZSR:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/


Nice review. Reading it reminded me of a pet peeve with the latest KZ offerings. What's with the lipless nozzle design? Doesn't KZ realize just how infuriating it is to lose ear tips left behind in your ear canal? Especially when its solely because of a poor design?


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 2, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Nice review. Reading it reminded me of a pet peeve with the latest KZ offerings. What's with the lipless nozzle design? Doesn't KZ realize just how infuriating it is to lose ear tips left behind in your ear canal? Especially when its solely because of a poor design?





> Great review of the ZSR, + vs ZS6, Thanks !


Definitely appreciate the compliments from everyone. 

Indeed, lipless nozzles are infuriating. I think we should be more vocal about it here or via KZ's new "qq" email thingy. I think it started with ED7 (maybe earlier, I forget) but it's purely poor design choice.
I use 3.5mm - 4.0mm eartip collars on the nozzles. My whirlwind tips slide past the the mesh like they've got somewhere to go, somewhere to be. I thought about using Teflon tape. It doesn't help that the nozzles are like telephone poles either. Folks with small ears might experience discomfort, but it depends on how small the aperture of their ear is. I'll have to check the specs for the nozzle width and insert that info into the review.


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> Definitely appreciate the compliments from everyone.
> 
> Indeed, lipless nozzles are infuriating. I think we should be more vocal about it here or via KZ's new "qq" email thingy. I think it started with ED7 (maybe earlier, I forget) but it's purely poor design choice.
> I use 3.5mm - 4.0mm eartip collars on the nozzles. My whirlwind tips slide past the the mesh like they've got somewhere to go, somewhere to be. I thought about using Teflon tape. It doesn't help that the nozzles are like telephone poles either. Folks with small ears might experience discomfort, but it depends on how small the aperture of their ear is. I'll have to check the specs for the nozzle width and insert that info into the review.



With the ZS5/6 it's definitely annoying and could have been avoided, but with the ZSR I don't really think they could have added a proper nozzle lip without it creating major fit issues for a lot of users. That nozzle is 6mm across, the same width as the nozzles of most tip-mounted micro-driver earphones. They would have to do something like this to make wearing the earphone feasible for normal ears. I'm not sure how well something like that would work with the BA's shoved in there. Certainly a pain in the buttocks regardless.


​


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> With the ZS5/6 it's definitely annoying and could have been avoided, but with the ZSR I don't really think they could have added a proper nozzle lip without it creating major fit issues for a lot of users. That nozzle is 6mm across, the same width as the nozzles of most tip-mounted micro-driver earphones. They would have to do something like this to make wearing the earphone feasible for normal ears. I'm not sure how well something like that would work with the BA's shoved in there. Certainly a pain in the buttocks regardless.
> 
> ​



Yeah, that looks like it might restrict the BA's. Not a good idea.

Good looking out.

I just fitted the ZSR with the DM5 wide-bores and they seem to have a snug fit. 

Problem solved.........for me.


----------



## oyobass

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, that looks like it might restrict the BA's. Not a good idea.
> 
> Good looking out.
> 
> ...


If you run into problems in the future, I suggest taking some coarse sandpaper to the outside of the nozzle, just enough to scuff up the shiny finish. This could (possibly) give the tips some more grip on the nozzle, especially if covered with oils from the skin.


----------



## DocHoliday

oyobass said:


> If you run into problems in the future, I suggest taking some coarse sandpaper to the outside of the nozzle, just enough to scuff up the shiny finish. This could (possibly) give the tips some more grip on the nozzle, especially if covered with oils from the skin.



I'm a bit OCD with my IEMs so the teflon tape would be the way to go for me. It's a collector kind of thing, but thanks for the input.


----------



## oyobass

DocHoliday said:


> I'm a bit OCD with my IEMs so the teflon tape would be the way to go for me. It's a collector kind of thing, but thanks for the input.


Yeah, I go by the "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" philosophy... I modded my one example of a ZS5 v.1 to make it more comfortable. Still sounds awesome, but the side that faces the ear sure is ugly!


----------



## Thumpsy

bsoplinger said:


> From the deals thread… KZ starlines $1 for 15 pair, eBay from China. Seems like a too good to be true price. Wonder if they're copies?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...the-first-post.692119/page-1709#post-14075453


Thanks for posting this, I Snagged some mediums.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 2, 2018)

Thumpsy said:


> Thanks for posting this, I Snagged some mediums.



@bsoplinger  Thanks from me too.  I also got some mediums.  They would not post to the UK so they will be shipped to a family member in the USA who is visiting me in May.  Hopefully they will arrive on time!

I thought it was really strange that they would not ship to here.


----------



## zazaboy

Can anyone give info about KZ ate is it a good iem in terms of mids vocals soundstage??? Is it better then edr2?


----------



## fluteloop (Mar 3, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i was going to get the ZS6, should i wait for the new ones? Would anyone one of those be better than the zs6? Also, will the cable for the zs6 work on those? I ordered one but it hasn't been shipped yet.



reviews of the zs6 are around. There is no reviews on the current line up, so far...I also don't know if they've announced a release date so who knows how long you will be waiting, maybe someone in here knows.. 

Will they be better than the zs6? The sales might not be so great if there's no improvement, but if zs6 is discontinued, no choice... it's anyones guess.


----------



## CoiL (Mar 3, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> Can anyone give info about KZ ate is it a good iem in terms of mids vocals soundstage??? Is it better then edr2?


ATE is better in soundstage but about EDR2 vocals one can argue latter being more "intimate" and prominent vocals (but noticeably more congested soundstage).
ATE is no slouch in mids though, they are very good but different presentation (more distant/further away vocals). I personally like ATE more in every aspect.
But this is all with MY gear&ear and let me remind You that EDR2 that I had could sound different than others have here due to KZ poor QC and consistency.
Though, I have had lot of ATE`s and so far latter ones (3 pairs, ~month old) are same sounding and very good (5th gen).


WalterTorino said:


> I do not argue about it, it seems to be logical, but on a couple of russian music web-pages I saw information that balanced connection can cause a bass loose. Maybe it's true if it made not properly?


In theory it can make bass looser IF, as said before, there are not enough power to drive separate channels. But usually modern DAPs etc. are thought out quite well
and should provide required power for most IEMs run in balanced but it depends,of course, lot about IEMs being used.


----------



## zazaboy

guys I need a cheap good portable dac/amp for my phone .... right now I think of fiio q1 first generation because its cheap... is it any good? .. can anyone think give me some advice what to get?


----------



## Otto Motor

I use these tips on most of my earphones and never had any problems with nozzles, lipless or not:
https://goo.gl/FuksbT


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 3, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> guys I need a cheap good portable dac/amp for my phone .... right now I think of fiio q1 first generation because its cheap... is it any good? .. can anyone think give me some advice what to get?


The Fiio has a non-replaceable, consumable battery: your amp will be waste in 3-5 years. I use the audioquest dragonfly dac/amp that draws energy from the phone and will live for much longer. It also works with the computer. And yes, it sounds great.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 3, 2018)

CoiL said:


> ...and let me remind You that EDR2 that I had could sound different than others have here due to KZ poor QC and consistency.



I received two pairs of EDR2 in their classic dark cardboard box last week (gearbest). They sound identical and like the pair from mid 2017. Looking at the outdated appearing packaging including tips from before the "starline" generation, I speculate these EDR2 are all old stock.

Will submit two of them for measurements tonight (nylon vs. metal mesh).


----------



## NeonHD

I'm pretty sure this has already been covered here, but wow I just found out about KZ's newest 10 models:







Honestly so excited when they release, I wonder how they all sound, and if it's a step above their current offerings.


----------



## Selenium

I want that quin-driver! Gimme


----------



## Kevang

Has anyone managed to remove the tacky cursive writing from the ZSR's housing? I've tried both 91% isopropyl alcohol and nail polish remover but to no avail. 
If there's one thing that's really bugging me about KZ's newest releases, it's the weird scribbles they plaster on otherwise pretty designs.


----------



## bsoplinger

Kevang said:


> Has anyone managed to remove the tacky cursive writing from the ZSR's housing? I've tried both 91% isopropyl alcohol and nail polish remover but to no avail.
> If there's one thing that's really bugging me about KZ's newest releases, it's the weird scribbles they plaster on otherwise pretty designs.


I went so far as to use the set of sanding / polishing sponges I have (1200 to 9600 grit) to see if I could remove the writing on the ZSR and it didn't work. I'm guessing that the writing is either embedded in the shell meaning inside because the shells may be made from multiple layers of whatever material they use or on the inside of the shell, although I don't think that's the case.


----------



## fluteloop (Mar 3, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> I do not argue about it, it seems to be logical, but on a couple of russian music web-pages I saw information that balanced connection can cause a bass loose. Maybe it's true if it made not properly?




Balanced is for massive long cable runs, live pa's, studio's etc, i believe it was to combat latency and having wierd echo sounds. I could be wrong, i wonder how much difference it has on these baby cables.

Another thing that comes to mind is with those setups they can use ime alignment snd balanced alorithm to hone the sound, there's also more activity going on in the hardware, the clocks and data on the line, not something i would have thought audiophiles would be foaming about.


----------



## Roboturner913

I like that red one....yz39. any release dates on any of these?


----------



## Strat Rider (Mar 4, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Definitely appreciate the compliments from everyone.
> 
> Indeed, lipless nozzles are infuriating. I think we should be more vocal about it here or via KZ's new "qq" email thingy. I think it started with ED7 (maybe earlier, I forget) but it's purely poor design choice.
> I use 3.5mm - 4.0mm eartip collars on the nozzles. My whirlwind tips slide past the the mesh like they've got somewhere to go, somewhere to be. I thought about using Teflon tape. It doesn't help that the nozzles are like telephone poles either. Folks with small ears might experience discomfort, but it depends on how small the aperture of their ear is. I'll have to check the specs for the nozzle width and insert that info into the review.



Recently I decided to place a black rubber o-ring over the ZSR nozzle to space the whirlwind tips out further.
instead of flush or near flush, the mesh is now recessed about 1mm.
I found that the fit and sq was improved.


----------



## NeonHD

I hope that the YZ49 uses the exact same drivers as the ED9, just with an extra BA, because the ED9 has the best V-shaped sound I've ever heard.


----------



## Strat Rider

Otto Motor said:


> I received two pairs of EDR2 in their classic dark cardboard box last week (gearbest). They sound identical and like the pair from mid 2017. Looking at the outdated appearing packaging including tips from before the "starline" generation, I speculate these EDR2 are all old stock.
> 
> Will submit two of them for measurements tonight (nylon vs. metal mesh).



i am currently listening to my edr2. Being my first non-hybrid KZ, I think I have been way behind. I like the shape, and weight a lot


----------



## hakuzen

zazaboy said:


> guys I need a cheap good portable dac/amp for my phone .... right now I think of fiio q1 first generation because its cheap... is it any good? .. can anyone think give me some advice what to get?


if you only need a simple and very portable dac/amp, i've tried smsl idea (= sabaj d2) and like it very much. it gets a bit hot and some people find buzz when using some phones (easily fixable though), but the clean (very low noise and distortion) and transparent sound, and low output impedance, compensate any small cons.
you can find detailed measurements here (and workarounds in comments): https://archimago.blogspot.com.es/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html
check it to see if power is enough for your needs.


----------



## bsoplinger

Just a bit of warning. A year ago there were hints of upcoming models from KZ and some never saw the light of day. I'm suggesting a wait and see approach to all things new from KZ


----------



## CoiL

Kevang said:


> Has anyone managed to remove the tacky cursive writing from the ZSR's housing? I've tried both 91% isopropyl alcohol and nail polish remover but to no avail.
> If there's one thing that's really bugging me about KZ's newest releases, it's the weird scribbles they plaster on otherwise pretty designs.


You could try denaturated spirit, make paper "wet" with it and wrap in food-plastic for a while. Furniture restorators use this method to remove laquer and stain from wood.


----------



## bsoplinger

Strat Rider said:


> Recently I decided to place a black rubber o-ring over the ZSR nozzle to space the whirlwind tips out further.
> instead of flush or near flush, the mesh is now recessed about 1mm.
> I found that the fit and sq was improved.


I've done similarly. Since the small size ear tips are always way too small for me I use them to make my spacers. I turn the tip inside out and cut off the part that goes over the nozzle. I then cut that in halves or thirds depending on how much spacing I think I need. Put it on the nozzle first and then the actual ear tip I want to use.


----------



## Slater

Kevang said:


> Has anyone managed to remove the tacky cursive writing from the ZSR's housing? I've tried both 91% isopropyl alcohol and nail polish remover but to no avail.
> If there's one thing that's really bugging me about KZ's newest releases, it's the weird scribbles they plaster on otherwise pretty designs.



How long did you let it sit on for?


----------



## Strat Rider

bsoplinger said:


> I've done similarly. Since the small size ear tips are always way too small for me I use them to make my spacers.
> 
> I forgot about your OP on this subject. Kudos go to you.
> Same as you, I have many unused silicone tips.
> I'm going to use that. (I just happened upon O-Rings at work)


----------



## Slater (Mar 4, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Just a bit of warning. A year ago there were hints of upcoming models from KZ and some never saw the light of day. I'm suggesting a wait and see approach to all things new from KZ



Also, I think some may have always been intended for ODM customers. Like the TRN V10 for example.

There's quite a lot of redundancy in that 2018 lineup, and it would be significantly more retail models than KZ has ever released in a single year. That's what makes me believe about 50% of that list won't be sold as "KZ" models. I mean, it's a few weeks away from Q2 2018 and they have yet to release a single one.

We'll see though.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> I hope that the YZ49 uses the exact same drivers as the ED9, just with an extra BA, because the ED9 has the best V-shaped sound I've ever heard.



Wow, even even brighter ED9? Move over ZS6!

I do hope they release more models with tuning filters too; specifically front and rear filters (like the lz a4). The popularity of the ED9 should have been an indicator that customers like that feature.


----------



## Kevang

bsoplinger said:


> I went so far as to use the set of sanding / polishing sponges I have (1200 to 9600 grit) to see if I could remove the writing on the ZSR and it didn't work. I'm guessing that the writing is either embedded in the shell meaning inside because the shells may be made from multiple layers of whatever material they use or on the inside of the shell, although I don't think that's the case.


Wow. I guess KZ did step up their QC game. Too bad it was spent on making their gaudy decals damn near unremovable.



CoiL said:


> You could try denaturated spirit, make paper "wet" with it and wrap in food-plastic for a while. Furniture restorators use this method to remove laquer and stain from wood.


Have you tried this method, out of curiosity? I'm a somewhat circumspect guy, so unless someone else has done it before I'm unlikely to attempt it. 



Slater said:


> How long did you let it sit on for?



I made "nests" out of bottle caps, filled them up with alcohol,  and let the earpieces sit in them for a day. Before that it was vigorous scrubbing with cuetips. I'm hesitant to let them soak in the polish remover since it's acetone-based, so no telling what effects it would have on the plastic over a long period of time.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just imagine a few years forward, what will KZ do and what are the gems from this year


----------



## Slater (Mar 4, 2018)

Kevang said:


> I made "nests" out of bottle caps, filled them up with alcohol,  and let the earpieces sit in them for a day. Before that it was vigorous scrubbing with cuetips. I'm hesitant to let them soak in the polish remover since it's acetone-based, so no telling what effects it would have on the plastic over a long period of time.



Yeah, that should have been MORE than enough time.

I buffed the writing off, vs trying to melt it off with solvent (and risk melting the plastic as you mentioned). Just some plastic polish (with a Dremel buffing wheel on the slowest speed) and lots of elbow grease.

Another guy used a scotch brite (green) pad to get his off (the ZS3 or maybe ZST I think). Be aware that puts a satin finish on the cover. So if you go the scotch brite route and you want it crystal clear again, you can use the plastic polish and lots of elbow grease method afterwards.


----------



## CoiL

Kevang said:


> Have you tried this method, out of curiosity? I'm a somewhat circumspect guy, so unless someone else has done it before I'm unlikely to attempt it.


Not with KZ ZST/ZS3. I will try it with ZS3 this week


----------



## toddy0191

Well, have just started to listen to my EDR1s that arrived a few days ago for the grand sum of £2.50 from Gearbest.

Big thanks to @Otto Motor for recommending them,  they're unbelievable bang for buck!

Tons of sub bass, nice neutral mids and nice slightly elevated treble.  Have been A B ing them with my new Sony mdr 100AP over ear headphones that cost me £83 and I think I prefer the EDR1s!

Have put some double flange tips on as was getting vacuum seal from hell with other tips.

I recommend anyone who hasn't bought these yet to get them whilst they are still around.  Going to get a backup pair myself.


----------



## zazaboy

guys how is kz edr1 compared to kz ate and edr2 is it better or not can anyone give detailed information about mids and soundstage especially vocals and does kz edr1 sound good with low quality files like poor mastered tracks ?


----------



## zazaboy

and btw and how does edr1 do against kz zs6 would like to have some comparison thanks


----------



## CoiL

- wrong thread post lol.


----------



## dondonut

Just ordered the KZ EDR1. Planning on replacing the red nozzle filters with steel ones. Could anyone point out what size I should get so I know to order the right ones? Is it the 4mm ones? Thanks for this thread guys. I got the ATR and ZST like a year ago and have enjoyed both a lot, looking forward to the EDR1s!


----------



## khighly

bsoplinger said:


> Nice review. Reading it reminded me of a pet peeve with the latest KZ offerings. What's with the lipless nozzle design? Doesn't KZ realize just how infuriating it is to lose ear tips left behind in your ear canal? Especially when its solely because of a poor design?



I actually bring tweezers with me in my backpack now because of this. I've had to go into the bathroom at work and pull ear tips out multiple times in the past few months because of KZ's poor nozzle design.


----------



## gazzington

Has anyone written a comparison of all available kz earphones?


----------



## Slater

dondonut said:


> Just ordered the KZ EDR1. Planning on replacing the red nozzle filters with steel ones. Could anyone point out what size I should get so I know to order the right ones? Is it the 4mm ones? Thanks for this thread guys. I got the ATR and ZST like a year ago and have enjoyed both a lot, looking forward to the EDR1s!



4mm


----------



## Slater (Mar 4, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Has anyone written a comparison of all available kz earphones?



Aproear is the largest source I am aware of, but it doesn't have them ALL.

http://www.aproear.co.uk/review-list/

I mean, there's multiple revisions of many IEMs, some are technically still "available" (but very rare to find), etc.

Be aware that with regards to reviews, you usually don't know what revision they are talking about. For example, there's (2) different versions of the ATR, (2) of the ZS3, (5) of the ATE, (2) of the ZS5, (2) of the ZS1, etc


----------



## B9Scrambler (Mar 4, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Has anyone written a comparison of all available kz earphones?



I've briefly covered about 30 or so models on my blog.

Edit: Links in my signature below.

Edit 2: Finally added the ZS5, ZS6, and ZSR to part 3.


----------



## Otto Motor

B9Scrambler said:


> I've briefly covered about 30 or so models on my blog.
> 
> Edit: Links in my signature below.
> 
> Edit 2: Finally added the ZS5, ZS6, and ZSR to part 3.


This is one of the best and most useful write-ups I am aware of. Made me order tons of KZ earphones.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> This is one of the best and most useful write-ups I am aware of. Made me order tons of KZ earphones.



Thanks man! Hopefully you liked those models you picked up


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 4, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Well, have just started to listen to my EDR1s that arrived a few days ago for the grand sum of £2.50 from Gearbest.
> 
> Big thanks to @Otto Motor for recommending them,  they're unbelievable bang for buck!
> 
> ...


£2.50? This leaves room for the EDR2, too. And the HDS3 for another £2.50...all three are similar. The HDS3 have been found superior by headflux.de over Whathifi's perennial favourite Soundmagic E10C at £50 [I can confirm this as I own both].

And in six months from now you will be laughing your head off because all these fantastic cheapos will be gone.


----------



## Otto Motor

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks man! Hopefully you liked those models you picked up


I certainly did. And the reviews were realistic. For example, the ED4 were really as harsh as described .


----------



## Otto Motor

gazzington said:


> Has anyone written a comparison of all available kz earphones?


More on audiobudget.com and thephonograph.net and audiofight.info


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> I certainly did. And the reviews were realistic. For example, the ED4 were really as harsh as described .



Good to know. ED4 is awesome  haha


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> Good to know. ED4 is awesome  haha



Agreed!

So far B9 is the only person, besides me, who thinks the ED4 is a bag of laughs.

The ED4 is like doing a wheelie on a crotch-rocket down Main Street for 4 blocks straight if you can time the lights.

You wouldn't try that often but it would be fun while it lasted. 

It's only a hobby folks, so don't be afraid to shake things up once in a while Maynard.

Who needs RedBull when you have a set of ED4's! 
Pop those ED4's in and behold!!


----------



## TikPandora (Mar 5, 2018)

So, this is a strange question and one I am sure has been answered many many times, but I am looking to purchase a pair of KZ IEMs.  Now, as we're talking about KZ here price really isn't an issue. lol

For the most part, I put overall clarity over punchy in-your-face base, but I prefer a more U shaped sound signature overall though I like V as well.  In your opinion, what are the best KZ IEMs in terms of clarity and overall unified performance with a removable cable?

I was looking at the ZS3s, the ZST Pros, and the ES3s.


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 5, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I've briefly covered about 30 or so models on my blog.
> 
> Edit: Links in my signature below.
> 
> Edit 2: Finally added the ZS5, ZS6, and ZSR to part 3.


Amazing blog! I definitly like it! Thank you so much! I already found some interesting models for myself. But, it would be cool if you added a little bit of infographics to your articles: scores on a 10-point scale (by low's, mid's, high's and overall) and Db-Hz graphics.
Anyway, thank you!
P.S. Great pics! I wonder if you photograph yourself.


----------



## Viber (Mar 5, 2018)

Sooooooo.... See you all in about a month from now?


----------



## WalterTorino

TikPandora said:


> So, this is a strange question and one I am sure has been answered many many times, but I am looking to purchase a pair of KZ IEMs.  Now, as we're talking about KZ here price really isn't an issue. lol
> 
> For the most part, I put overall clarity over punchy in-your-face base, but I prefer a more U shaped sound signature overall though I like V as well.  In your opinion, what are the best KZ IEMs in terms of clarity and overall unified performance with a removable cable?
> 
> I was looking at the ZS3s, the ZST Pros, and the ES3s.


As for me - ZSR or ZS5 is an optimal choise for now. Models that you mensioned above are have much more "cons" then this two.
But you should not wait any punchy and really bassy sounding from KZ. ZSR is a most bassy model with a good highs at the same time for now i guess.
Or you can wait for some new models coming (i hope) soon. Mb, there gonna be some interesting ones.


----------



## WalterTorino

Viber said:


> Sooooooo.... See you all in about a month from now?


I want to put all of them in my ears... O_o


----------



## vladstef (Mar 5, 2018)

Viber said:


> Sooooooo.... See you all in about a month from now?



The black one looks ok-ish. I believe that these will look better irl than on photos.
A proper crossover circuitry confirmed, at least 2 BAs are in the body and hopefully have nicely done tubing (this is where KZ's shady QC must improve otherwise it will be the messiest thing ever).

I could go on a small rant regarding the unchanged cables, but at least we now know that the price is going to be kept in check.


----------



## TikPandora (Mar 5, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> As for me - ZSR or ZS5 is an optimal choise for now. Models that you mensioned above are have much more "cons" then this two.
> But you should not wait any punchy and really bassy sounding from KZ. ZSR is a most bassy model with a good highs at the same time for now i guess.
> Or you can wait for some new models coming (i hope) soon. Mb, there gonna be some interesting ones.



Thanks for the recommendation.  I actually am going to go with the ZSR. Was a bit hesitant because of the bright green, but I was sold when I saw they come in black as well.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> I've briefly covered about 30 or so models on my blog.
> 
> Edit: Links in my signature below.
> 
> Edit 2: Finally added the ZS5, ZS6, and ZSR to part 3.



Sorry buddy, I always forget about your blog!

Nice job on the new models


----------



## Slater

TikPandora said:


> So, this is a strange question and one I am sure has been answered many many times, but I am looking to purchase a pair of KZ IEMs.  Now, as we're talking about KZ here price really isn't an issue. lol
> 
> For the most part, I put overall clarity over punchy in-your-face base, but I prefer a more U shaped sound signature overall though I like V as well.  In your opinion, what are the best KZ IEMs in terms of clarity and overall unified performance with a removable cable?
> 
> I was looking at the ZS3s, the ZST Pros, and the ES3s.



ZS6 or ZSR


----------



## WalterTorino

TikPandora said:


> Thanks for the recommendation.  I actually am going to go with the ZSR. Was a bit hesitant because of the bright green, but I was sold when I saw they come in black as well.


Better be careful about their housings. Pretty unusual and may not fit every ear.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Sooooooo.... See you all in about a month from now?



Is that far right one peach colored?


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 5, 2018)

Slater said:


> Is that far right one peach colored?


Nah, i guess it's gonna be red. Like the green ZSRs - they looked lighter on an advertisement pics.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Mar 5, 2018)

TikPandora said:


> So, this is a strange question and one I am sure has been answered many many times, but I am looking to purchase a pair of KZ IEMs.  Now, as we're talking about KZ here price really isn't an issue. lol
> 
> For the most part, I put overall clarity over punchy in-your-face base, but I prefer a more U shaped sound signature overall though I like V as well.  In your opinion, what are the best KZ IEMs in terms of clarity and overall unified performance with a removable cable?
> 
> I was looking at the ZS3s, the ZST Pros, and the ES3s.



ZS3: recessed trebles with very few details
ZST: U shaped, very well tuned, with detailed high (after 48h burn in) , very good bass
ES3: Excellent bass, artificial voices, detailed highs but sybillant all the time (even after 80h burn in), not well tuned
ZSR: rather V shaped, better than the very good ZST, great bass, great trebles, natural voices slightly recessed (=V shaped) compared to ZS6

ZS5-2 & ZS6 are more technical, not for me V nor U shaped, with highs a bit agressive, even after 120h burn in.

I recommand for you the ZSR (around 20€, sometimes 15) or The ZST (around 12€, sometimes 10)
Price not an issue: ZSR is the best.


----------



## B9Scrambler

WalterTorino said:


> Amazing blog! I definitly like it! Thank you so much! I already found some interesting models for myself. But, it would be cool if you added a little bit of infographics to your articles: scores on a 10-point scale (by low's, mid's, high's and overall) and Db-Hz graphics.
> Anyway, thank you!
> P.S. Great pics! I wonder if you photograph yourself.



Glad you enjoyed it, and yup, unless stated otherwise the pics are mine. 

While I understand the value of a scoring system, I personally do not like them. I find people reply too much on the score and not enough on the experience, passing over a good earphone if the score isn't high enough. Maybe one day I'll implement a system that I agree with, but for now my blog will remain free of any sort of rating system, sorry.


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> Agreed!
> 
> So far B9 is the only person, besides me, who thinks the ED4 is a bag of laughs.
> 
> ...




I like them so much I have three of them. Well, two ED4s and a Z1 which sounds nearly the same, if not identical. Looks sick in black regardless. 

*Crappy old pic of the ED4/Z1 gang. Need to re-do it and some others.*


----------



## Shuikit (Mar 5, 2018)

ZSR arrived the other day.  Is anyone else struggling to get tips over the nozzle?  The nozzle is a fair bit larger than my other KZ's, it seems to squish the silicone making it harder and less comfy in my ears.

Oh, and the text saying 'right' and 'left' is upside down which I'm finding quite irritating!


----------



## WalterTorino

Shuikit said:


> ZSR arrived the other day.  Is anyone else struggling to get tips over the nozzle?  The nozzle is a fair bit larger than my other KZ's, it seems to squish the silicone making it harder and less comfy in my ears.
> 
> Oh, and the text saying 'right' and 'left' is upside down which I'm finding quite irritating!


True. Better use a foam tips.
About the text upside down - really annoying s..t.


----------



## kazuma2017 (Mar 5, 2018)

Viber said:


> Sooooooo.... See you all in about a month from now?



The ZS10 is available in April 2018


----------



## WalterTorino

kazuma2017 said:


> The ZS10 is available in April 2018


Waiting for the price and hope it's gonna be under or not higher then $40-50.


----------



## vladstef

kazuma2017 said:


> The ZS10 is available in April 2018



Notice another one of the 1+1 hybrids - fixed cable (but kinda premium looking with metal) and probably an earbud type large 13-15mm dynamic driver (that's how it looks to me, especially with the large vent on the top and probably front as well).


----------



## WalterTorino

vladstef said:


> Notice another one of the 1+1 hybrids - fixed cable (but kinda premium looking with metal) and probably an earbud type large 13-15mm dynamic driver (that's how it looks to me, especially with the large vent on the top and probably front as well).


Hope this one will be very bassy in case of it's shape.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Can anybody compare kz zsr with zs5v2.....and v1

And will MandarinE symbioW eartip fit zsr as there nozzle is different....ostry was fitted easily


----------



## CoiL (Mar 5, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> ZS3: recessed trebles with very few details
> ZST: U shaped, very well tuned, with detailed high (after 48h burn in) , very good bass


Let me remind everyone that ZS3 is one of the most inconsistent KZ IEM due to their shrink-tube driver nozzle inside shells.
I agree that ZS3 has recessed trebles (B9S found them better than ATE/ATR, which to me is mystery! I don`t agree at all) but treble/highs are like needles in ears sometimes with both units I have.
To me and with my gear ZS3 is clear typical consumer V-shaped IEM with recessed mids and loose "boomy" bass, even noticeable with slater mod.

ZST is quite W-shaped imo. Nice punchy detailed bass but highs are somewhat harsh because of peak. With wide-bore tips and removed nozzle mesh it becomes little better. I found best tips to be widebore Auvio S size.



vladstef said:


>


I hope it will be KZs first graphene driver! But I doubt it.


Viber said:


> Sooooooo.... See you all in about a month from now?


So, it is actually called ZS10 ?
I also hope it will be max around 50$, otherwise they really need to stand up against Tinaudio T2 and some others with higher price tag.
Why I think it will be actually under 50$ (at least in the end) - I got ZS5v1 (which is 4 driver per side) for 36$ (22$ with discount) when it launched and now goes uner 16$.
And I doubt they will tune the crossover so well that ppl will run storm about them.


----------



## Saoshyant

I suspect 55 with some pretty quick price drops.


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> Let me remind everyone that ZS3 is one of the most inconsistent KZ IEM due to their shrink-tube driver nozzle inside shells.
> I agree that ZS3 has recessed trebles (*B9S found them better than ATE/ATR, which to me is mystery! I don`t agree at all*) but treble/highs are like needles in ears sometimes with both units I have.
> To me and with my gear ZS3 is clear typical consumer V-shaped IEM with recessed mids and loose "boomy" bass, even noticeable with slater mod.



Not quite. I prefer the ATR which to me is the best of the AT lineup and still one of the best KZs period. My favorite ZS3 is one of the originals (with the extra thick 2-pin setup not used on any other KZ) and does not sound quite the same as the current model. Current model isn't as smooth (especially in the mids), has more pronounced treble, and a touch more mid-bass. Shells feel like they're made from lighter, cheaper plastics too, though that could be because they're glossy vs. the matte coating of my original.


----------



## zazaboy

trn v20 is out anyone has info those hybrid iems ? are they any good ?


----------



## CoiL (Mar 5, 2018)

Yeah, I had a thought that You may have different earlier unit. But as far as I know, they are not available anymore.
Maybe You should add to each KZ mini-review about possible revisions and differences?

Btw, I had not measured my ZS5v1 impedance before... without cable it is ~3.7 Ohm ! O_o With KZ silver "upgrade" cable (with changed Neutrik jack) it is ~4.7 Ohm ! Freaking LOW !
Good that my DX5X has 80mA per channel output power for driving all those drivers connected in parallel. The current draw is high with ZS5v1. That`s probably main reason (as said before) why v1 sounds so drastically different with different users and source gear.

Maybe there are some shops that are able to measure ZS5 impedance and send pic? I still think there are some ZS5v1 stock left and I want one more! -.-
ZS5v2 should be around 16Ohm, so, If seller could measure and answer, probably chance to get some v1.



zazaboy said:


> trn v20 is out anyone has info those hybrid iems ? are they any good ?



Sorry if I`m rude but please read Yourself too and use search box for info. You seem to post in every thread asking about different IEMs - post number collector?
Trn V20 is NOT KZ IEM and doesn`t belong into this thread (only comparisons vs. KZ).


----------



## cottonbud (Mar 5, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Trn V20 is NOT KZ IEM and doesn`t belong into this thread (only comparisons vs. KZ).


IIRC it's IEM manifactured by KZ for another brand. Sort of belong.


----------



## CoiL

Hearing this 1st time. TrnV10 had slightly different (more like IT03) shells compared to ZSR and drivers are different. 
Anyone direct me to information that KZ produces TRN?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Mar 5, 2018)

I would like to see that information as well. I've seen and listened to the V10 and it does not sound like a KZ (inferior to KZs imo, but I'm a fanboy so disregard everything I say if you so please), nor is the shell the same as any KZ currently has in use (similar to the ZSR though, but not the same). TRN's cables are great though.


----------



## mrmoto050

Bought these for my ZS6 and ZS5's. Plugged them in and a whole other level! quite pleased with this purchase .
*G&V 2.5mm 4-pole Balanced Cable, Custom IEM 2 Pin Connector, 1.2m, 2PIN-2BA-SL-L 




*


----------



## dhruvmeena96

TRN sounds mid less.....no mids if compared to kz zsr....

More like bass and treble


And I am not talking about under emphasised, or recessed....just mid less


Like a canyon between mount everest and a hill

Everest is bass and mid bass and hill is treble


----------



## SciOC

mrmoto050 said:


> Bought these for my ZS6 and ZS5's. Plugged them in and a whole other level! quite pleased with this purchase .
> *G&V 2.5mm 4-pole Balanced Cable, Custom IEM 2 Pin Connector, 1.2m, 2PIN-2BA-SL-L
> 
> 
> ...


Is the fit good?  Technically this has .78mm pins instead of .75mm. I have this for my tfz's but it'd be great if it works with the KZs I'll be (impulse) buying too.


----------



## mrmoto050

SciOC said:


> Is the fit good?  Technically this has .78mm pins instead of .75mm. I have this for my tfz's but it'd be great if it works with the KZs I'll be (impulse) buying too.


They ft perfectly (imo). didn't seem to have to insert with any undue pressure. Excellent cables, ordered 3 more for my other ZS models. I have 4 DAP's that can accommodate 2,5mm balanced so I wanted the options with my KZ'z glad I did.If I have time i can upload a picture, but I'm pretty busy today.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Mar 5, 2018)

Ok
Here is how they fit and look. Sorry for such large photo.


----------



## CoiL

mrmoto050 said:


> Ok
> Here is how they fit and look. Sorry for such large photo.


Can You please measure its L/R/G impedance (and subtract multimeter leads impedance)?


----------



## TheVortex

zazaboy said:


> trn v20 is out anyone has info those hybrid iems ? are they any good ?



I can't find any information about this. Do you have a link?


----------



## oyobass

vladstef said:


> Notice another one of the 1+1 hybrids - fixed cable (but kinda premium looking with metal) and probably an earbud type large 13-15mm dynamic driver (that's how it looks to me, especially with the large vent on the top and probably front as well).


Reminds me of a yoyo...


----------



## DocHoliday

hydroid said:


> I have extracted my spare ZST's driver which is very challenging to do...tons of glue everywhere..lol. For the love of the ZS3 shell, I will try experimenting whether the ZST's driver will sound good on zs3's shell. Fitting the 10mm driver requires extra work.,more cutting here and there until you find enough room for it. I'm not technical enough so I'll just do trial and error. Any inputs from experts are very much welcome. Hoping for the best.,



What was the end result of your swap experiment?

What was the biggest issue (DD size)?

I've considered doing a few myself, but before ordering multiple ZS3's I'd like to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons you've experienced. 

No rush and thanks.


----------



## Strat Rider (Mar 5, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> £2.50? This leaves room for the EDR2, too. And the HDS3 for another £2.50...all three are similar. The HDS3 have been found superior by headflux.de over Whathifi's perennial favourite Soundmagic E10C at £50 [I can confirm this as I own both].
> 
> And in six months from now you will be laughing your head off because all these fantastic cheapos will be gone.



Regarding the EDR2, (*A fresh edit for corrected* *fit-N-ear*)  My initial ootb impression. Don't know what I was expecting, but for the price I am pleasantly surprised how neutral (balanced?) The mids, and highs are. Bottom end needs a little help, I am liking them so far straight out of my ipod touch. Plugged in some Samantha Fish Blues, and Eric Church Rockin Country, changed tip sizes, and WOW, initial comment was way wrong!


----------



## CoiL (Mar 5, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> What was the end result of your swap experiment?
> What was the biggest issue (DD size)?
> I've considered doing a few myself, but before ordering multiple ZS3's I'd like to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons you've experienced.


DD size is first problem as it needs to have "chamber"-nozzle in front of driver not just open placement into shells.
Second problem is stock nozzle - it needs to be replaced for larger one, otherwise BA will block too much sound coming from DD (in case BA is installed inside nozzle like with ZST).
You have probably seen my pic about ZS3 nozzle change? I just haven`t had time to mess with it any further. Heck, even my ZS5v1 mod is taking forever due to baby&wife, not much free time -.-
But ZS5v1 is going to look best mod I`ve done I think. Faceplates are almost ready (some fine-finishing handwork to do) but shells mod... oh please almighty, give me more time, sleep & not so "whining" woman, LOL ;D
I really wish to make great-looking and fine-tune version of my ZS5v1 as I like its SQ so much with my gear. I`m still waiting for my IT01 to arrive which will probably replace ZS5v1 in terms of SQ but I still wish another set of ZS5v1 for modding it into ZS3 shell (crazy I know). I already found one unit from aftermarket sales but not sure about posting cost.
Actually I thought about getting v2 ,disassemble it & re-wire into v1 (if drivers are exactly same).


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 5, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Glad you enjoyed it, and yup, unless stated otherwise the pics are mine.
> 
> While I understand the value of a scoring system, I personally do not like them. I find people reply too much on the score and not enough on the experience, passing over a good earphone if the score isn't high enough. Maybe one day I'll implement a system that I agree with, but for now my blog will remain free of any sort of rating system, sorry.


I agree on the non-scoring system. It is redundant if the reviews are informative enough, which yours usually are (and so are Hifi Chris'). A good review should give the reader the opportunity to read between the lines and enable him/her to separate observation from interpretation and technicality from taste.

Another problem with a scoring system is the fact that it tacitly involves comparison with all the other reviewed items. In the long run, there will be the need for correction when the sample size increases. For example, audiobudget started out on 5 star cheapos and IMO does not have room for the recently introduced more expensive multi driver models. If such a correction is not done, the whole body of work becomes inconsistent, which renders the scores pointless...pun intended.

In summary, quality reviews don't rely on a scoring system, which also makes life easier for the reviewer.


----------



## Otto Motor

B9Scrambler said:


> I like them so much I have three of them. Well, two ED4s and a Z1 which sounds nearly the same, if not identical. Looks sick in black regardless.
> 
> *Crappy old pic of the ED4/Z1 gang. Need to re-do it and some others.*


You have three ED4s? I thought they came in pairs. Hey, who says I don't like my ED4s.


----------



## rayliam80

Otto Motor said:


> This is one of the best and most useful write-ups I am aware of. Made me order tons of KZ earphones.



I agree. I found the blog and the posts to be well done and encouraging enough to put in my first KZ orders last November.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 5, 2018)

My friend did quick and dirty preliminary impedance measurements of the KZ ZS5, KZ ZSR, and EDR2: plotted are frequency [KHz] vs. impedance [ohm].

The single-driver EDR2 shows a flat response.

The triple-driver ZSR has rather high impedance that drops above 3 KHz. This means that, if you increase the output impedance of your player, you get a drop in the treble on your frequency response curve.

The quad-driver ZS5 has a rather low impedance that starts climbing beyond 1 KHz. This means that, if you increase the output impedance of your player, you get increased mids and treble on your frequency response curve...that's what Coil always tried to tell me with his setup for the KZ ZS5.

My iPhone 5S has an output impedance of...hmmm...either 1 ohm or 2.3 ohm.
Putting my audioquest dragonfly in front of it yields an output impedance of 0.3 ohm.
I'll have to try both on my ZS5, but they are still with my friend.


IMPEDANCE FOR DUMMIES (including myself)
I really had problems understanding the read-ups, therefore here in simple terms...I hope it is understandable.

1. The output impedance of a player determines how much voltage arrives at the earphones.
2. A low output impedance is desired, which means a high voltage arrives at the earphones.
3. A single-driver earphone has a flat impedance across the frequency spectrum and the player's output impedance does not influence the frequency response curve.
4. Multi-driver earphones have funny impedance-frequency curves.
5. For any given output impedance: the higher the earphone's impedance at a certain frequency, the louder the signal will be at this frequency. If the source is 100 ohm, then the voltage (loudness) in the earphone will be higher at, let's say, 600 ohm on the curve than at 300 ohm.
6. If the output impedance of the player is increased, there is less juice entering the earphones and the voltage (loudness) drops, but less so at 600 ohm compared to 300 ohm.
7. Points 5 and 6 appear to not make any sense: if the earphone's impedance (resistance) is increased, this should result in a drop in voltage/loudness, but the opposite is the case...the trick is that the resistor is BEHIND the earphones' coil and not in front of it. The innerfidelity graphic below shows this quite well.
8. This can be compared to a bathtub. Water (voltage) comes under pressure out of the faucet (player). The plug in the bathtub that keeps the water in can be compared to the impedance in the earphone. The better the plug seals, the more water (voltage/loudness) there is in the earphone/bathtub. And all the fun is in the water...


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 5, 2018)

guys I have the kz es3 ... will the kz zs6 be sidegrade or a upgrade what do you think guys btw I like the bass of es3 a lot.. hope kz6 red is even better with upgrade cables getting them soon


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Honestly I think I would wait for KZ's newly announced lineup first as the ZS6 might be a bit too sizzly for some.


----------



## SciOC

Otto Motor said:


> My friend did quick and dirty preliminary impedance measurements of the KZ ZS5, KZ ZSR, and EDR2: plotted are frequency [KHz] vs. impedance [ohm].
> 
> The single-driver EDR2 shows a flat response.
> 
> ...


So, question....  Why do some players have high output impedance at all, ie hiby r6?  Does it reduce noise ?  There has to be a reason for it other than "bad design".


----------



## nadezhda 6004

mrmoto050 said:


> Bought these for my ZS6 and ZS5's. Plugged them in and a whole other level! quite pleased with this purchase .


Where did you buy it from?


----------



## mrmoto050

I answered your PM. Sorry been out , wife's birthday .


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> My friend did quick and dirty preliminary impedance measurements of the KZ ZS5, KZ ZSR, and EDR2: plotted are frequency [KHz] vs. impedance [ohm].
> 
> The single-driver EDR2 shows a flat response.
> 
> ...



Good write up. This explains why I don't experience the troublesome treble that others experience on the ZSR, ZST, ZS5(i) or ES3. My Fiio X3(i) has an output impedance of 0.3 Ω (32Ω) 

In addition, it makes sense that, although the ZS6 does have emphasized treble, it is well within reasonable limits through the X3i which tends to lean toward a warmer musical presentation as opposed to a colder analytical presentation. 

I'll be picking up a Fiio X5ii soon which has an output impedance  of 0.2 Ω (32Ω) and it is reportedly a DAP that tends to lean toward a more neutral and analytical presentation and I'm looking forward to the slight differences. 

X3i - Wolfson WM8740 DAC 
X5ii - PCM 1792 DAC


----------



## DocHoliday

CoiL said:


> DD size is first problem as it needs to have "chamber"-nozzle in front of driver not just open placement into shells.
> Second problem is stock nozzle - it needs to be replaced for larger one, otherwise BA will block too much sound coming from DD (in case BA is installed inside nozzle like with ZST).
> You have probably seen my pic about ZS3 nozzle change? I just haven`t had time to mess with it any further. Heck, even my ZS5v1 mod is taking forever due to baby&wife, not much free time -.-
> But ZS5v1 is going to look best mod I`ve done I think. Faceplates are almost ready (some fine-finishing handwork to do) but shells mod... oh please almighty, give me more time, sleep & not so "whining" woman, LOL ;D
> ...



Thanks for the followup Coil. I just can't help but wonder if the ZST drivers in the ZS3 housing would sound and feel incredible. Even the ES3's with that 10mm DD and BA combo might bring a welcome upgrade to the table for the ZS3.

Any ideas on what I could use for metal nozzles wide enough to accommodate the BA being in the nozzle?


----------



## hydroid

DocHoliday said:


> What was the end result of your swap experiment?
> 
> What was the biggest issue (DD size)?
> 
> ...



Hi @DocHoliday been too busy lately to provide an update on this. Unfortunately, the ZST driver can't fit inside the ZS3 shell. I gave up trying for now and will just wait for the ZS10 release. Hill Audio posted a teaser on IG yesterday that it may come out soon..


----------



## CoiL

hydroid said:


> Unfortunately, the ZST driver can't fit inside the ZS3 shell.


It can


----------



## hydroid

CoiL said:


> It can



Oh my.,you really is the master modder  interested to know how you've done it..


----------



## CoiL

hydroid said:


> Oh my.,you really is the master modder  interested to know how you've done it..


I haven`t done it yet but I know how


----------



## Adide (Mar 6, 2018)

Pardon me to jump in but I see things a bit differently in some points. Not an expert, just my opinion.



Otto Motor said:


> The quad-driver ZS5 has a rather low impedance that starts climbing beyond 1 KHz. This means that, if you increase the output impedance of your player, you get increased mids and treble on your frequency response curve.



If you don't break the 1/8 impedance ratio I think nothing will happen while you increase source output impedance.
If by increase you mean breaking the 1/8 impedance matching ratio I think that the bass and mids will be susceptible to impedance mismatching effects (below) rather than detect an increase in mids and treble.



Otto Motor said:


> 3. A single-driver earphone has a flat impedance across the frequency spectrum and the player's output impedance does not influence the frequency response curve.



Pretty sure that's not accurate. Again, if by increase you meant breaking the 1/8 rule I think impedance mismatch can still produce some of these efects in various proportions and intensities due to reduced damping factor: roll-offs and tonality alteration towards source impedance response curve (for instance if the source has an L-shaped impedance response curve the phones will get darker and so on). Also, apart from FR curve alteration - clipping (reduced dynamic range) and distortion can occur in severe cases of impedance mismatch.

Cheers.

Edit: also, afaik cable impedance counts towards source impedance so have that in mind as effects on tonality (that can be measured) can vary from none to many depending on all parties involved impedance and the breaking or honoring of 1/8 rule. Not talking about non-measurable effects (resolution, dynamics, soundstage, imaging etc.) - that's everyone's guess.


----------



## CoiL

> This means that, if you increase the output impedance of your player, you get increased mids and treble on your frequency response curve.





> A single-driver earphone has a flat impedance across the frequency spectrum and the player's output impedance does not influence the frequency response curve.


I`m not going to argue about it but I will just say that I also don`t wholy agree with those points. I`m mainly supporting on my practical experience rather than theoretical. 
It`s not only about FR curve but also about physical "juice". ZS5v1 has around 3,7 Ohm impedance (without cable) which is result of drivers connected in parallel without any crossover.
That means ZS5v1 *current draw per channel/drivers* will be very high and not only about output voltage. That`s why also low output impedance and amping plays large role about resulting perceived sound. if source/amping output current is too low, it affects some/all drivers by below their optimal working point, resulting different perceived FR as intended per individual driver.
That`s why there are so contraverse opinions about ZS5v1 and I`ve read some comments where ppl amping them properly with low source output impedance result comments like "where from those mids & details/punchyness pooped out? O_o".
It`s like driving mesaboogie cabinet (2Ohm low impedance drivers) with PC PSU... If You know what I mean, joke, lol. Amp properly and with first bass note You pull - Your inner organs turn around, instant drooling and hard-on ;D


----------



## zazaboy

TheVortex said:


> I can't find any information about this. Do you have a link?



here is the trn v20 from ak audio store 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...164.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.7fc64764I8PP6y


----------



## Wiljen

Adide said:


> Pardon me to jump in but I see things a bit differently in some points. Not an expert, just my opinion.
> 
> Pretty sure that's not accurate. Again, if by increase you meant breaking the 1/8 rule I think impedance mismatch can still produce some of these efects in various proportions and intensities due to reduced damping factor: roll-offs and tonality alteration towards source impedance response curve (for instance if the source has an L-shaped impedance response curve the phones will get darker and so on). Also, apart from FR curve alteration - clipping (reduced dynamic range) and distortion can occur in severe cases of impedance mismatch.




Actually Otto Motor's comment is correct but is being misinterpreted.    A single driver's frequency response graph will not change based on the output impedance of the player based on the concept that all frequencies are equally effected by the shift.  (A rising tide lifts all boats).   That much is at least usually true until you get into artifact and the 1/8 rule.    The misinterpretation is that his comment was meant to say that a single driver cannot have different impedances at different frequencies which is obviously untrue.


----------



## mrmoto050

Wiljen said:


> Actually Otto Motor's comment is correct but is being misinterpreted.    A single driver's frequency response graph will not change based on the output impedance of the player based on the concept that all frequencies are equally effected by the shift.  (A rising tide lifts all boats).   That much is at least usually true until you get into artifact and the 1/8 rule.    The misinterpretation is that his comment was meant to say that a single driver cannot have different impedances at different frequencies which is obviously untrue.


Deleted dead link


----------



## mrmoto050 (Mar 6, 2018)

Deleted irrelevant


----------



## hakuzen

Adide said:


> Pardon me to jump in but I see things a bit differently in some points. Not an expert, just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this is right for dynamic drivers, because their impedance curve uses to be flat across the frequency spectrum.
but the typical impedance curve of balanced armature drivers is not flat, so the 1/8 rule should be even more restrictive to avoid tonal alterations, specially in highs.
you could check lot of samples of this in @HiFiChris ' amazing thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...urements-in-post-3-tutorial-in-post-2.800208/

or here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/
they measure the possible different frequency response of sources when using dynamic vs BA drivers, depending on source impedance; for example, check the difference here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/ihifi-770c.php , output impedance >10Ω. minimal tonal alterations for dynamic drivers, but about 5dB variation at 10kHz for BAs.

if you want to check particular KZs ZS5v1 and ZS6 tonal alterations due to their particular impedance curves:
zs5 v1 vs zs6 impedance curve: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060
tonal alteration when using higher output impedance sources: [URL='https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787']https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787[/URL]
and about clipping and distortion of weak sources when pairing to zs5v1, due to zs5v1 extremely low impedance (and not so high sensitivity):
zs5 source dependency: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918
zs5 drive: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1630#post-13819958


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 6, 2018)

CoiL said:


> That`s why there are so contraverse opinions about ZS5v1 and I`ve read some comments where ppl amping them properly with low source output impedance result comments like "where from those mids & details/punchyness pooped out? O_o".
> /QUOTE]
> Should my buddy measure the ZS5 v1. with different output sources in order to generate different frequency response curves?



Should my buddy measure the ZS5 v1. with different output impedance sources in order to generate different frequency response curves?


----------



## hakuzen

Otto Motor said:


> Should my buddy measure the ZS5 v1. with different output impedance sources in order to generate different frequency response curves?


sure your buddy would do a perfect job about that.
pity you don't appreciate my fr measurements of zs5v1 with 3 different sources (the link is immediately above your post): <1Ω, <1Ω+coupling caps, 15Ω (near +5dB harsher @ 11kHz).
zs5 source dependency: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918
i'm tired of re-posting these measurements, and it's even stupid to do it.. people read what they want to read..


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 6, 2018)

well I got my red kz zs6 how long do I need to burn them in anyone have some suggestion ?... btw they sound clear sharp nice mids ... but the bass is lacking I dont know if its a fit problem because of the shape of kz zs6.. kz es3 has more bass then kz zs6 ...


----------



## shubu000

Hi guys, any recommendation for an amp for the zs6?


----------



## Nikostr8

some good eartips for KZ  Zs3 , looking for more comfort 

thank you


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 6, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> sure your buddy would do a perfect job about that.
> pity you don't appreciate my fr measurements of zs5v1 with 3 different sources (the link is immediately above your post): <1Ω, <1Ω+coupling caps, 15Ω (near +5dB harsher @ 11kHz).
> zs5 source dependency: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918
> i'm tired of re-posting these measurements, and it's even stupid to do it.. people read what they want to read..



Sorry, missed your posts. Thanks for pointing us tp them. No need to measure.

Update: excellent, very useful work. Thanks!


----------



## zazaboy

guys how can I improve the bass of kz zs6 anyone have some suggestion for tips I cant get a good seal with kz zs6 thanks


----------



## Adide

hakuzen said:


> fr measurements of zs5v1 with 3 different sources (the link is immediately above your post): <1Ω, <1Ω+coupling caps, 15Ω (near +5dB harsher @ 11kHz).
> zs5 source dependency: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918



I'm familiar with your posts and I'm taking the oportunity to thank you again for all your hard work.

Do you care to elaborate a bit and explain the reasoning for high impedance output source in ZS5's case would more likely alter treble (and also bass but to a lesser extent)?

Can it be the effect of distortion from an sub-unity damping factor because it seems counterintuitive to me (and inconsistent with some user reports) as treble should be more stable in my opinion.

Regarding ZS6 I remember one of the users reporting terrible SQ loss when trying to tame the highs with various impedance adapters.
Haven't seen many reports from real-life users of this scenario though.

There's something more at play here or maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.


----------



## lucasbrea

zazaboy said:


> guys how can I improve the bass of kz zs6 anyone have some suggestion for tips I cant get a good seal with kz zs6 thanks


Comply foam tips  make a HUGE difference in my experience, just get the right size for you


----------



## Otto Motor

zazaboy said:


> guys how can I improve the bass of kz zs6 anyone have some suggestion for tips I cant get a good seal with kz zs6 thanks


The included "starline" tips are actually quite good and highly appreciated here - I just ordered some more from aliexpress. You will have to find out for yourself whether you like comply foam tips. I personally do not, and many others don't either. 

Did you, as a first step, play with the different sizes of the included tips? Do you have any other earphones the tips of which you can try out on our ZS6?

If there is a problem with the included tips, what is it?


----------



## zazaboy

I tryed many tips for kz zs6 but only foam tips helps but other tips I dont get bass with it I am driving the kz zs6 from a smartphone... compared with kz es3.. the kz es3 got a lot bass with equalizer but with kz zs6 its very on the weak side...


----------



## WalterTorino

zazaboy said:


> I tryed many tips for kz zs6 but only foam tips helps but other tips I dont get bass with it I am driving the kz zs6 from a smartphone... compared with kz es3.. the kz es3 got a lot bass with equalizer but with kz zs6 its very on the weak side...


Same problem. I use QKZs foam tips. But still can't get enough bass from the zs6. Bass is not a best side of the zs6. But in everything else - they rock.


----------



## hakuzen

Adide said:


> I'm familiar with your posts and I'm taking the oportunity to thank you again for all your hard work.
> 
> Do you care to elaborate a bit and explain the reasoning for high impedance output source in ZS5's case would more likely alter treble (and also bass but to a lesser extent)?
> 
> ...


high impedance output source alter treble due to its interaction with zs5v1 impedance, particularly with their BAs' impedance (treble). bass alteration is minimal in comparison, because the impedance of the dynamic driver is flat (the big bass roll-off in the graphs, are due to the source's tiny output coupling caps, not due to its output impedance, which is <1ohm, btw) .
please follow the order of my links, and you'll find out yourself:
1- zs5v1 and zs6 impedance curves. zs5v1, mostly flat till mids (~4ohms), and then it raises, reaching 8.5ohms @ 20kHz. zs6 is the opposite: flat till mids (~14ohms), and then it goes down, reaching 7ohms at 11kHz. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060
2- freq response of the SOURCE, when no load (flat response), and when connecting zs5v1 and zs6. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1546#post-13774060. note that the first graph in that post, shows the FR of the SOURCE output, not the FR of the iems. and you find the SOURCE highs change a lot, and the change responds exactly at the iem impedance (in zs5v1, some highs reach +3.5dB from lows level, in zs6, highs go down -3.5dB). it's a play of impedance interactions.
3- of course, when measuring iems fr (second graph), you find that variation in highs, because source signal is already altered by the mere fact of plugging such devices. if you try iems with flat impedance curve, you'll see that there is not tonal alteration. and if source output impedance is very low, the impedance interaction gets minimized: no tonal alteration.

so, answering to someone's post, nowadays, in the world of BA or hybrid iems, a source with high output impedance (>1ohm) can be considered a bad design. there are powerful sources, well designed, with minimal output impedance.

distortion and clipping occurs soon, when the source output impedance is low, the load/iem impedance is also very low and not too much sensitive (like zs5v1), and the source current limit is low (operational amplifiers current limitation). when applying the needed voltage to get enough volume, the current is much higher with low impedance loads, reaching amplifiers current limits. that's why zs5v1 (extreme low impedance, less sensitivity than zs6) distort sooner than zs6 when using weak sources.

when i tried the impedance adapter,  didn't like it either, dunno if the quality of the adapter had something to do there or what.. i prefer an easy simple eq, plus foams, for zs6.


----------



## hakuzen

zazaboy said:


> I tryed many tips for kz zs6 but only foam tips helps but other tips I dont get bass with it I am driving the kz zs6 from a smartphone... compared with kz es3.. the kz es3 got a lot bass with equalizer but with kz zs6 its very on the weak side...





WalterTorino said:


> Same problem. I use QKZs foam tips. But still can't get enough bass from the zs6. Bass is not a best side of the zs6. But in everything else - they rock.


it's easy to reach better isolation with foams, and foams help to tame some highs frequencies (resonances). the result is bassier.
but you can try to close inner vent hole (completely, or partially, using tape, for instance), if that vent hole is not occluded with your ear walls yet. if completely closed, you might experience driver flex (then you can punch the tape with a needle, minimal hole, just to avoid the flex).


----------



## WalterTorino

hakuzen said:


> it's easy to reach better isolation with foams, and foams help to tame some highs frequencies (resonances). the result is bassier.
> but you can try to close inner vent hole (completely, or partially, using tape, for instance), if that vent hole is not occluded with your ear walls yet. if completely closed, you might experience driver flex (then you can punch the tape with a needle, minimal hole, just to avoid the flex).


Thank you for your advice, but do you really think that i still didn't try it?


----------



## hakuzen

WalterTorino said:


> Thank you for your advice, but do you really think that i still didn't try it?


dunno and didn't know.. remembered some of the fast tweaks and liked to remind them just in case.. i'm plenty satisfied with zs6 bass though, and like to use some eq rather than other methods when needed (faster and easier for me).. but this is my own experience.. i'm sure you have tried everything, keep on it and you'll get success


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 6, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> dunno and didn't know.. remembered some of the fast tweaks and liked to remind them just in case.. i'm plenty satisfied with zs6 bass though, and like to use some eq rather than other methods when needed (faster and easier for me).. but this is my own experience.. i'm sure you have tried everything, keep on it and you'll get success


You're right about the methods of improving sound of the zs6 - I do not argue about this. But i guess that zs6 are simply not a so bassy model as i want. That's all. I like (very like) how it sounds in electronic music. But if i want to find a really bassy model, i have to look for something else. So i'm waiting for a new models from KZ. But i like the zs6 as they are.

P.S. sorry for my english, i'm kinda drunk *_*


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> You're right about the methods of improving sound of the zs6 - I do not argue about this. But i guess that zs6 are simply not a so bassy model as i want. That's all. I like (very like) how it sounds in electronic music. But if i want to find a really bassy model, i have to look for something else. So i'm waiting for a new models from KZ. But i like the zs6 as they are.
> 
> P.S. sorry for my english, i'm kinda drunk *_*



Give the KZ EDR1 a try. It has more bass than the ZS6.

Maybe consider the iBasso IT01 as well.


----------



## TikPandora

So I got the ZSRs in today, and what you all were saying about the fit is indeed true.  The little part in the back that protrudes to fit into your ear is definitely odd, almost painful even. That and the right side seems to be quite a bit less loud than the right.  I tested this via messing with levels and switching from left to right.  I'm sure they would be a wonderful fit in the ears of some, but for me it's just a total miss.  I ordered them through Amazon so I think a return is in order.  In the mean time, I have a set of ZST colorfuls coming tomorrow too, so I will test them out to see if they hit my personal tastes better.


----------



## szyblaszczyk

Hello!

I am the happy owner of KZ ZS3 + Bluetooth module but I'm looking for spare earphones which I may need when those will be lost/broken. 

I like KZ ZS3 but looking for something maybe a bit better/comparable but sounding maybe a little different. Can't find so many opinions about ZST Pro though. 

I also bought ZS6 but I am forced to sell them because they are too big for my ear canals. 
How about ZST Pro? Are they small like ZS3 or big like ZS6?

I'm going to buy KZ ZST Pro bluetooth module so would be nice to hear also how they sound with it! ZS3 sounds nice with bluetooth IMO.

Thanks for all the opinions!


----------



## bsoplinger

I ended needing to go with foamies to get a comfortable fit with a good seal for both the ZS5 and ZS6. The lipless design of the ZS6 had me leaving the foam tip behind in my ears regularly. So I decided that since they make different sizes (nozzle diameters that the inner tube in foamies slide over) that instead of using those designed for "regular" nozzles, 4.9mm, T400/T500 size, that I'd get ones with a smaller nozzle diameter, T200 and T300, 4.5mm and 4.0mm. These smaller nozzle diameter keeps the tip on the ear pieces and not left behind in my ears. I typically use medium tips but found that I needed to use large foamies for the seal and the larger tip made a tighter fit which is probably why they got left behind in my ear canals. This is the brand I purchased. They have listings for larger quantities at a lower per pair price and are willing to fulfill requests like just red and blue or half medium and half large.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-p...r-Pads-cap-4-5mm-memory-foam/32841211339.html


----------



## rayliam80

zazaboy said:


> I tryed many tips for kz zs6 but only foam tips helps but other tips I dont get bass with it I am driving the kz zs6 from a smartphone... compared with kz es3.. the kz es3 got a lot bass with equalizer but with kz zs6 its very on the weak side...



I'm gonna suggest Triple Flange. If you can't be satisfied with the bass with those then perhaps the ZS6's may not be for you...


----------



## Otto Motor

szyblaszczyk said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am the happy owner of KZ ZS3 + Bluetooth module but I'm looking for spare earphones which I may need when those will be lost/broken.
> 
> ...


The ZSR is the KZ earphone that most agree on. Their housings are very similar to the ZS3. I find them a step above the KZ ZS5...which may not fit your ears anyway. The ZSR is also much better than the ZST: rounder, more fluid with more sparkle.


----------



## rayliam80

szyblaszczyk said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am the happy owner of KZ ZS3 + Bluetooth module but I'm looking for spare earphones which I may need when those will be lost/broken.
> 
> ...





szyblaszczyk said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am the happy owner of KZ ZS3 + Bluetooth module but I'm looking for spare earphones which I may need when those will be lost/broken.
> 
> ...

















Sorry about the shadows but they're clear enough to get an idea of what you're looking for hopefully.


----------



## CoiL (Mar 7, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Should my buddy measure the ZS5 v1. with different output impedance sources in order to generate different frequency response curves?


Late answer but no need. hakuzen explained everything much more detailed than I could. Just read gear specifications to properly find match for ZS5v1 and You should get very nice SQ out of it (though, DAC sound signature will also affect result).
Like You can see from my profile, I run my ZS5v1 with DX5X -> WM8740 DAC (slightly warm sounding) / upgraded 2x ADA4897-1ARZ HO opamps (80mA per channel) / upgraded capacitors (smooth,detailed,large soundstage,great layering and separation), <0.5 ohm output impedance, High Gain: 3.1 V. Perfect match for my ZS5v1, beautiful clear detailed mids and punchy clear textured bass/percussion with detailed highs (not harsh/sibilant). I can honestly say - best KZ I`ve ever had and probably KZ won`t supersede it any soon, if ever.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Mar 7, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> I tryed many tips for kz zs6 but only foam tips helps but other tips I dont get bass with it I am driving the kz zs6 from a smartphone... compared with kz es3.. the kz es3 got a lot bass with equalizer but with kz zs6 its very on the weak side...


The bass on the ES3 vs ZS6 are similar, but on ZS6, there are good quality and level mediums - voices that sound recessed and artificial on the ES3 + permanent sibyllance...
There is not less bass on the ZS6, but the mediums are not recessed at all.
ZS6 is technical and will reveal the defects off the player
Maybe  youre player-phone is not good enough for the ZS6
ZS6 with a good dap does not need to add bass (except if u're a "bass head" 
If you like slightly recessed mediums, try the ZSR !


----------



## zachary101

Ynot1 said:


> I wonder if the KZ ES3 and the Walnut V3 be a good match. Or maybe ZSE with no BA would be better if walnut remains low on damping factor.



zse sucks bigtime buddy


----------



## Daniel Gur

hydroid said:


> Hi @DocHoliday been too busy lately to provide an update on this. Unfortunately, the ZST driver can't fit inside the ZS3 shell. I gave up trying for now and will just wait for the ZS10 release. Hill Audio posted a teaser on IG yesterday that it may come out soon..


whats wrong with the ZST shell? It fits me perfectly.


----------



## mbwilson111

zachary101 said:


> zse sucks bigtime buddy



Interesting first post.  I do not have a ZSE but I know there are those on here who like it.  What don't you like?  It is not really enough to just say it sucks.  Have you tried different tips on yours?


----------



## Daniel Gur

zazaboy said:


> well I got my red kz zs6 how long do I need to burn them in anyone have some suggestion ?... btw they sound clear sharp nice mids ... but the bass is lacking I dont know if its a fit problem because of the shape of kz zs6.. kz es3 has more bass then kz zs6 ...


I didnt burn them alot outside of actually listening to them. I liked the sponge mod that someone here did, did the same and liked the results. I tuned them trough the N7player equalizer. They sound so good now that I will be impressed if the "ZS10" will be better.


----------



## mbwilson111

Daniel Gur said:


> whats wrong with the ZST shell? It fits me perfectly.



We all have different ears so a shell that fits you might not feel right to someone else.  Most people seem to find the ZS3 comfortable but I do not... something just touches the wrong part of my ear.  The ZS6 fits me perfectly but there are others who say that part of it hurts their ear.  It can be tricky with these large shell designs.


----------



## Daniel Gur

zachary101 said:


> zse sucks bigtime buddy


can disagree, I have them and they are actually alright. they are my 3rd choice, after the ZS6 and ZST. Their star point is the comfort and the price.


----------



## fredhubbard2

my ZSR's arrived yesterday. even better than the ZS5's IMO. these 2 IEM's are the only ones where foamies work for me. ... my spiral dots actually detriment my listening experience with them. anyhoo i paid £15 ish for these AMAZING IEM's. huge soundstage and the detail retrieval is awesome. how the heck have they done it???!!!!

i also wear these down ear and the curve of the ZSR works quite well round my big fat ears!


----------



## DocHoliday

Daniel Gur said:


> whats wrong with the ZST shell? It fits me perfectly.



Just a bit of experimentation. 

The ZS3 housing will have an effect on soundstage and perhaps some frequencies will move slightly to the forefront while other frequencies get slightly recessed. Combine those ingredients with the ZS3's uncanny ability to isolate better than earplugs and I may just end up with an all-time favorite KZ yet. 

The ZS3 is the IEM I use when I get out the leaf blower which is four hours once a week these days and it blocks 90% of the noise.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 7, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Late answer but no need. hakuzen explained everything much more detailed than I could. Just read gear specifications to properly find match for ZS5v1 and You should get very nice SQ out of it (though, DAC sound signature will also affect result).
> Like You can see from my profile, I run my ZS5v1 with DX5X -> WM8740 DAC (slightly warm sounding) / upgraded 2x ADA4897-1ARZ HO opamps (80mA per channel) / upgraded capacitors (smooth,detailed,large soundstage,great layering and separation), <0.5 ohm output impedance, High Gain: 3.1 V. Perfect match for my ZS5v1, beautiful clear detailed mids and punchy clear textured bass/percussion with detailed highs (not harsh/sibilant). I can honestly say - best KZ I`ve ever had and probably KZ won`t supersede it any soon, if ever.


Quite an impressive setup for such inexpensive earphones...how does it work on other iems?
As to your low output impedance: I do understand that the ZS5 generally has very low impedance profile, which benefits from the low output impedance.

As said, I shall try the ZS5 v1 with my dragonfly amp/dac (0.3 ohm output impedance), but my friend still has them. In theory, I should have a similar frequency response as you.

But: out of the box, any iem should not require a complex setup. 95% percent of people run them on their phones (at least when not at home).

And: I have some 50 earphones...impossible to tailor my setup to perfectly match each of them.


----------



## mrmoto050

szyblaszczyk said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am the happy owner of KZ ZS3 + Bluetooth module but I'm looking for spare earphones which I may need when those will be lost/broken.
> 
> ...


FiiO F9 Pro


----------



## Shuikit

szyblaszczyk said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am the happy owner of KZ ZS3 + Bluetooth module but I'm looking for spare earphones which I may need when those will be lost/broken.
> 
> ...



For me...
ZS3 - great fit
ZS5 - were too big for me
ZST - fit was good, but it doesn't seem to go as deep as the ZS3 which I prefer
ZSR - Good fit, but am finding it difficult to fit silicone tips over the nozzle which is a bit larger than my other KZ.  It squashes out the centre part of the tip which takes some of the give out of the tip, it's a bit hard.  Foam tips seem okay, but I don't get along with foam tips.  

If it were ever possible, then the ZSR in a ZS3 shell would be amazing....


----------



## oyobass

szyblaszczyk said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am the happy owner of KZ ZS3 + Bluetooth module but I'm looking for spare earphones which I may need when those will be lost/broken.
> 
> ...


By all accounts I have read, the ZST "Pro" is exactly the same as the ZST "colorful" and the ZST "carbon fiber". I have had both, and enjoy them equally.

If you find the ZS3 comfortable, chances are you'll like the fit of the ZSR. I had to sand down the bump facing the ear on the ZS3 to make it fit somewhat comfortably, so I'll probably give the ZSR a pass until the price drops to where I don't mind the possibility of destroying them by modding them.


----------



## fredhubbard2

... struggling to work out how ive got so much audio refinement for £15!....bizarre


----------



## C2thew

DocHoliday said:


> Just a bit of experimentation.
> 
> The ZS3 housing will have an effect on soundstage and perhaps some frequencies will move slightly to the forefront while other frequencies get slightly recessed. Combine those ingredients with the ZS3's uncanny ability to isolate better than earplugs and I may just end up with an all-time favorite KZ yet.
> 
> The ZS3 is the IEM I use when I get out the leaf blower which is four hours once a week these days and it blocks 90% of the noise.



^ This.  The ZS3's were my first IEMS from KZ and my GO-TO IEMS when I want to isolate the sound as either earplugs or if i'm doing any active sport such as running.  They just have the right fit/seal so that the earphones don't fall out of your ear!  I now own the KZ ZS6's and while they do have more detail, the ZS6's don't have that magic seal that the ZS3's have.  I also noticed that the bass on the ZS3 seems to have the sound that i'm after when I'm working out.  

I'm still working on writing a summary on my ZS6 as i've had about a weeks worth of listening to these iems.  I just wish that KZ would use the ZS3 housings and just perfect those IEMS with additional drivers for clarity.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 7, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Late answer but no need. hakuzen explained everything much more detailed than I could. Just read gear specifications to properly find match for ZS5v1 and You should get very nice SQ out of it (though, DAC sound signature will also affect result).
> Like You can see from my profile, I run my ZS5v1 with DX5X -> WM8740 DAC (slightly warm sounding) / upgraded 2x ADA4897-1ARZ HO opamps (80mA per channel) / upgraded capacitors (smooth,detailed,large soundstage,great layering and separation), <0.5 ohm output impedance, High Gain: 3.1 V. Perfect match for my ZS5v1, beautiful clear detailed mids and punchy clear textured bass/percussion with detailed highs (not harsh/sibilant). I can honestly say - best KZ I`ve ever had and probably KZ won`t supersede it any soon, if ever.


I'll have to order a new ZS5 to see for myself whether or not a new ZS5 differs from ZS5(ii), 

but in the meantime.....

My take on the ZS5:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/reviews#review-19993


----------



## mbwilson111

oyobass said:


> If you find the ZS3 comfortable, chances are you'll like the fit of the ZSR. I had to sand down the bump facing the ear on the ZS3 to make it fit somewhat comfortably, so I'll probably give the ZSR a pass until the price drops to where I don't mind the possibility of destroying them by modding them.



Even though I found the ZS3 to be uncomfortable for me,  I am very happy with the fit of my ZSR.  I like the sound of both.


----------



## TikPandora

Got the ZST today, and I have to say I absolutely love them.  The fit, for me at least, is far better without that bump in the back.  That, and I also prefer the way that they sound.  With the silver upgrade cable these are gonna be little beasts to beat for sure.


----------



## oyobass

mbwilson111 said:


> Even though I found the ZS3 to be uncomfortable for me,  I am very happy with the fit of my ZSR.  I like the sound of both.


Good to know. Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Mar 7, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Just a bit of experimentation.
> 
> The ZS3 housing will have an effect on soundstage and perhaps some frequencies will move slightly to the forefront while other frequencies get slightly recessed. Combine those ingredients with the ZS3's uncanny ability to isolate better than earplugs and I may just end up with an all-time favorite KZ yet.
> 
> The ZS3 is the IEM I use when I get out the leaf blower which is four hours once a week these days and it blocks 90% of the noise.



Keep a eye on tingling/numbness (neuropathy) in your hands caused by the vibrations from the blower.

A friend of mine was a commercial lawn guy and he used a blower about that much and now he has nerve damage from the vibrations.

You can buy special foam padded “vibration-isolating” work gloves that make a huge difference in preventing any hand damage.


----------



## szyblaszczyk

oyobass said:


> By all accounts I have read, the ZST "Pro" is exactly the same as the ZST "colorful" and the ZST "carbon fiber". I have had both, and enjoy them equally.
> 
> If you find the ZS3 comfortable, chances are you'll like the fit of the ZSR. I had to sand down the bump facing the ear on the ZS3 to make it fit somewhat comfortably, so I'll probably give the ZSR a pass until the price drops to where I don't mind the possibility of destroying them by modding them.



Thanks a lot (you and everybody else who helped me to make a decision)! 

I saw photos of "naked" ZST and they're not going to fit me ear canals for sure.

The question is now how big are ZSR without silicone tips? Are they the same like ZS3?

The next question is: is it worth to pay double price for ZSR? I also need to buy seperate bluetooth module for them (different connector type). What's the sound characteristic compared to KZ ZS3? KZ ZS3 with the same amount of bass (so bassy and with a "punch"!) but a bit more detailed would be something which absolutely fit me!

And the last question  - are there any cheap silicon/foam tips which are going to be more fitted in ear than stock ones? I tend to lose ZS3 after 1-2 hours of listening because of "oily" inside of my ear canals.  Sorry if it sounded a bit disgusting but I clean my ear canals two times a day so it's not about my lack of hygiene.  It's just skin type I'm afraid as same problems persists with my hair. Anyway... no more details  any advice would be really appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## Thumpsy (Mar 7, 2018)

I often use a bit of distilled witch hazel on a qtip to clean my ears.  It seems to help with oilyness and other skin issues.    I'm not a doctor though so please take this with a grain of salt.


----------



## snip3r77

Otto Motor said:


> My friend did quick and dirty preliminary impedance measurements of the KZ ZS5, KZ ZSR, and EDR2: plotted are frequency [KHz] vs. impedance [ohm].
> 
> The single-driver EDR2 shows a flat response.
> 
> ...



Damn good explanation


----------



## szyblaszczyk

Found the (nozzles) comparison of ZS3 vs ZSR.

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-vs-kz-zs3-comparison/

No way I'm gonna fit those huges nozzles into my ears. 

ZS6 too big, ZSR and ZST too. 

What's left for me for an improvement above ZS3 in KZ series?


----------



## MSQRD

Otto Motor said:


> Quite an impressive setup for such inexpensive earphones...how does it work on other iems?
> As to your low output impedance: I do understand that the ZS5 generally has very low impedance profile, which benefits from the low output impedance.
> 
> As said, I shall try the ZS5 v1 with my dragonfly amp/dac (0.3 ohm output impedance), but my friend still has them. In theory, I should have a similar frequency response as you.
> ...



I have pretty much every KZ earphone and the Dragonfly / ZS5v1 Combo is by far my favorite. I wish the ZS5v1 was a little bit more comfortable, but they are not uncomfortable.


----------



## Otto Motor

MSQRD said:


> I have pretty much every KZ earphone and the Dragonfly / ZS5v1 Combo is by far my favorite. I wish the ZS5v1 was a little bit more comfortable, but they are not uncomfortable.


That sounds encouraging. I never hear a huge difference between my iPhone 5S with and without the dragonfly.


----------



## MSQRD

Otto Motor said:


> That sounds encouraging. I never hear a huge difference between my iPhone 5S with and without the dragonfly.



Also, If you're into EQing... the ZS6, once dialed in, sounds phenomenal as well


----------



## Otto Motor

MSQRD said:


> Also, If you're into EQing... the ZS6, once dialed in, sounds phenomenal as well


The ZS6 should arrive any day. Which setting can you advise? I have not been into eying yet.


----------



## Slater

Thumpsy said:


> I often use a bit of distilled witch hazel on a qtip to clean my ears.  It seems to help with oilyness and other skin issues.    I'm not a doctor though so please take this with a grain of salt.



+1 on witch hazel.

The stuff is awesome, and has a variety of uses. It works great for infections, cleaning piercings, and even clearing up teenage acne (when used daily).


----------



## CoiL (Mar 8, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Quite an impressive setup for such inexpensive earphones...how does it work on other iems?
> As to your low output impedance: I do understand that the ZS5 generally has very low impedance profile, which benefits from the low output impedance.
> As said, I shall try the ZS5 v1 with my dragonfly amp/dac (0.3 ohm output impedance), but my friend still has them. In theory, I should have a similar frequency response as you.
> But: out of the box, any iem should not require a complex setup. 95% percent of people run them on their phones (at least when not at home).
> And: I have some 50 earphones...impossible to tailor my setup to perfectly match each of them.


Let me remind You (again) that it`s not all about output impedance source alone. Your DFB has 1,2V output but I couldn`t find how much mA per channel it can feed?

Yeah, I`m very satisfied with modified DX50 that it will stay my portable DAP until it dies (can`t see it coming).
So far it works very well with all IEMs I have, also earbuds (Asura 2.0) and drives my X1 (which can take up to 500mA) without sound regress coming from desk setup (which I run with ~400mA medium gain).


DocHoliday said:


> I'll have to order a new ZS5 to see for myself whether or not a new ZS5 differs from ZS5(ii),
> 
> My take on the ZS5:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/reviews#review-19993


Good review.
Let us know if You find differences with "latest" ZS5 vs. ZS5v2.


----------



## EISENbricher

Hi, could anyone please let me know how ZSR stand up against ZS5 V2? Just a one-two liner description is totally fine. 
I tried digging this thread but given the number of posts made in the thread every day I failed in finding the information.


----------



## HiFindersKeepers

Hi all, have been reading this forum (and topic) for the past months and thought I'd finally join.

I invested in an ZS6 (with the new packaging), which was on sale at some point. Since I'm very new to the audiophile game / community I don't dare write a review just yet, but overall I'm pretty happy with it as a first step into this world (apart from some headphones B&W P5, LSTN headphones).

They took some getting used to, with the lack bass noticeable for me. I wouldn't consider myself a bass head at all, but sounds like applause on live recordings sounded really "flat" to me and I guess i was in general used to a warmer sound with the P5s etc? Anyway, since I've changed to the slightly bigger ear tips that were included and I think I'm growing used to it, or the bass has indeed improved by switching.

This week I bought a bundle on aliexpress with the ZST (I thought they would be good as a cheap alternative with the BT module for my runs) and an upgrade cable included, which I can then try with the ZS6, and see whether I notice any improvement.

I don't feel comfortable with modding just yet, but would there be any quick-wins to improve on the ZS6 sound? No doubt there's quite a lot of info in these pages but I'm not sure where the start and what all the benefits are.
Also, in a few weeks I'lll have the ZST to use, what would be a great next step to get used to different sound profiles and get more wise about understanding IEM and sound quality etc? I'm open to other brands than KZ for that, but since this is a KZ topic and this is what I'd consider my starting point, another KZ would be fine too.

Thank you for reading .


----------



## mrmoto050

HiFindersKeepers said:


> Hi all, have been reading this forum (and topic) for the past months and thought I'd finally join.
> 
> I invested in an ZS6 (with the new packaging), which was on sale at some point. Since I'm very new to the audiophile game / community I don't dare write a review just yet, but overall I'm pretty happy with it as a first step into this world (apart from some headphones B&W P5, LSTN headphones).
> 
> ...


Welcome, ..it sounds as if you don't have a good seal, try different tips until you get a better seal, it will improve the bass also.


----------



## Otto Motor

HiFindersKeepers said:


> They took some getting used to, with the lack bass noticeable for me. I wouldn't consider myself a bass head at all, but sounds like applause on live recordings sounded really "flat" to me and I guess i was in general used to a warmer sound with the P5s etc?



I also think that  sounds like not getting a good seal. 

First, stuff the iems deeper into your ear canal. If that does not work, use bigger eartips. The included tips are quite good.


----------



## oyobass

HiFindersKeepers said:


> Hi all, have been reading this forum (and topic) for the past months and thought I'd finally join.
> 
> I invested in an ZS6 (with the new packaging), which was on sale at some point. Since I'm very new to the audiophile game / community I don't dare write a review just yet, but overall I'm pretty happy with it as a first step into this world (apart from some headphones B&W P5, LSTN headphones).
> 
> ...


If after getting a good seal with the included eartips, you still find a lack of bass, you could put a little scotch tape over the tiny hole next to the nozzle. this can be tuned to your preference with a small needle. Just poke a hole in the tape over the port. This is a totally reversible mod that I believe @Slater came up with.

Comply-style foam eartips are a necessity for me to be able to get a good seal. You could give those a try as well. Remember, good seal = bass.


----------



## fredhubbard2

EISENbricher said:


> Hi, could anyone please let me know how ZSR stand up against ZS5 V2? Just a one-two liner description is totally fine.
> I tried digging this thread but given the number of posts made in the thread every day I failed in finding the information.



I dunno version of ZS5 I have...they sound amazing to me...I received ZSR 2 days ago and they sound even better. Seperation , detail and soundstage is top notch. Very very impressive for the price.


----------



## EISENbricher

fredhubbard2 said:


> I dunno version of ZS5 I have...they sound amazing to me...I received ZSR 2 days ago and they sound even better. Seperation , detail and soundstage is top notch. Very very impressive for the price.


Thanks! That surely helps


----------



## Nikostr8

kinda annoying the memory wire in the silver kz cable , i got a pair of earhooks to deal with it on my zs3 and zst (both with silver cable)

my question is: is it easy to remove this memory wire without damaging the cable itself? did anyone tried to do it before?


----------



## mrmoto050

Nikostr8 said:


> kinda annoying the memory wire in the silver kz cable , i got a pair of earhooks to deal with it on my zs3 and zst (both with silver cable)
> 
> my question is: is it easy to remove this memory wire without damaging the cable itself? did anyone tried to do it before?


There are multiple examples within this thread.


----------



## Nikostr8

mrmoto050 said:


> There are multiple examples within this thread.


yup in the end i just remove it my own way , its waaaaaaaaaaaay more comfier now without it.


----------



## Slater

Nikostr8 said:


> kinda annoying the memory wire in the silver kz cable , i got a pair of earhooks to deal with it on my zs3 and zst (both with silver cable)
> 
> my question is: is it easy to remove this memory wire without damaging the cable itself? did anyone tried to do it before?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1267#post-13604336


----------



## CoiL

I still love mem wire. Don`t understand why ppl hate it? Because of tangling when taking out or harder to storage?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

CoiL said:


> I still love mem wire. Don`t understand why ppl hate it? Because of tangling when taking out or harder to storage?



I like the memory wire as well!  My ATR's cable just hates staying behind my ears, and with a memory wire it's no issue.


----------



## F4yze

My washers arrived and I did Slater's sub bass increase mod. I did notice a difference. I like it.


----------



## ricemanhk

Just chatting a few taobao sellers, ZS10 will be available end of march early april.  no indications on price yet.

In the meantime, let me get a white ZSR...hehe


----------



## CoiL

I would also like white and red ZSR shells... but only for modding & fit-experience. If there will be major discount for ZSR, I`ll probably grab it.


----------



## ricemanhk

White and red ZSR available at some taobao sellers already, so I presume broader availability should be soon...


----------



## HiFindersKeepers

oyobass said:


> If after getting a good seal with the included eartips, you still find a lack of bass, you could put a little scotch tape over the tiny hole next to the nozzle. this can be tuned to your preference with a small needle. Just poke a hole in the tape over the port. This is a totally reversible mod that I believe @Slater came up with.
> 
> Comply-style foam eartips are a necessity for me to be able to get a good seal. You could give those a try as well. Remember, good seal = bass.



Thanks for the kind replies everyone! 
I did experiment with the tips to get a better seal, and I do notice a difference. I was a bit hesitant about how far I could insert them into my ear, but they fit much better now in my ears. I will experiment with foam tips though, just to see what it's like. Gonna order some soon .

Really happy with my purchase now!!


----------



## DocHoliday

My take on the KZ ES3: 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/reviews


----------



## Wiljen

Nikostr8 said:


> kinda annoying the memory wire in the silver kz cable , i got a pair of earhooks to deal with it on my zs3 and zst (both with silver cable)
> 
> my question is: is it easy to remove this memory wire without damaging the cable itself? did anyone tried to do it before?



Yes, with a little care you can split the strain relief enough to expose the end of the wire and then just pull it out with a pair of needle nose pliers.  it doesn't attach to anything inside the shell so will just slide out without touching anything else as long as you don't cut the wire when exposing it.


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> My take on the KZ ES3:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/reviews


Great review


----------



## Makahl

F4yze said:


> My washers arrived and I did Slater's sub bass increase mod. I did notice a difference. I like it.



Really cool! Is the seal tight enough or you need to put some glue around the nozzle?


----------



## orlando2989 (Mar 9, 2018)

Is this true? something that is really confirmed ?


----------



## Otto Motor

SomeTechNoob said:


> I like the memory wire as well!  My ATR's cable just hates staying behind my ears, and with a memory wire it's no issue.



I like both for difference purposes: 

Memory wire when out of the house...iems stay better in.
No memory wire at home/in bed...too much fiddling when taking the iems in and out.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> My take on the KZ ES3:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/reviews


I don't know whether the ES3 you reviewed is the same (sounding) version as mine.


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> I don't know whether the ES3 you reviewed is the same (sounding) version as mine.



Understood. I'll be adding more information in an edit for this very reason so check back later this evening perhaps (for the updated info).


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Understood. I'll be adding more information in an edit for this very reason so check back later this evening perhaps (for the updated info).


Your information is just fine. It is KZ's inconsistency I am alluding to .


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ? Inconsistent?


----------



## F4yze

Makahl said:


> Really cool! Is the seal tight enough or you need to put some glue around the nozzle?



I use the laser bond glue as mentioned by Slater. It really comes in handy! I deposited a little of the glue elsewhere and dip the tip of a safety pin in it. I then use it to apply a tiny amount around the inside edge of the nozzle and the rim of the washer. Harden it with the UV light and done.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 9, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Your information is just fine. It is KZ's inconsistency I am alluding to .



Absolutely; likewise. That's the additional information I'll be focusing on. In the meantime, hakuzen's work will serve as evidence. See the following post for more insight.



DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for this hakuzen.Those readings in your first chart show such a wide variance, which is concerning. Clear evidence of why two different people hear two different things. Unacceptable QC!
> 
> 
> For those of us who are older than god:
> ...



Also, looking at those graphs, notice how much the midrange is effected. 
Just.....all over the place. I always say that small tweaks in the wrong areas can take things from pleasant to offensive without much effort. 

Slater may be able to chime in on removing the foam that sits between the mesh screen and BA to open things up on your ES3. Just a thought....


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> Absolutely; likewise. That's the additional information I'll be focusing on. In the meantime, hakuzen's work will serve as evidence. See the following post for more insight.


Just on a curious note; did one have a mic and the other didn't? Just wondering.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 9, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Absolutely; likewise. That's the additional information I'll be focusing on. In the meantime, hakuzen's work will serve as evidence. See the following post for more insight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am just trying to listen to the music videos accompanying your review...many of them "are not available". Is Canada being blocked out?


----------



## DocHoliday

mrmoto050 said:


> Just on a curious note; did one have a mic and the other didn't? Just wondering.



I don't recall. You'll have to search tor hakuzen's original post for more detail. 

Also, Otto, I will quote one of hakuzen's earlier posts in order to paint a clearer picture.



> .....if we find mids too forwarded or recessed, play with the foam in the nozzle (it tames the mids which come from the dynamic driver).
> for the price they cost, i found them more competent (resolution, imaging, etc.) than many other hybrid iems which costed me 4x more, and i like their tonal signature. so they are a very good value, imo.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 9, 2018)

Setup for following Doc's review including youtube audio samples.
MacBook Air, audioquest jitterbug, audioquest dragonfly, early adopted KZ ES3.

Observation: Pretty good, but that soft however punchy and overall overwhelming bass is pounding against my eardrums.

A word on the jitterbug: it works in as it audibly lifts the sound off the floor.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 10, 2018)

!!


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 9, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I am just trying to listen to the music videos accompanying your review...many of them "are not available". Is Canada being blocked out?




Here is the list and their links:  


Spoiler



Basia - Promises
 

Alphawezen - Into The Stars


Jose Gonzales - Heartbeats


Swingout Sister - Twilight World

____________________

Tiesto - Close To You 


Delerium - After All


Massive Attack -Teardrop

___________________

Guitarra G (Afterlife Remix)


Dead Composers feat. Cathy Battistesta - Starlight


Jakatta - One Fine Day (Original Mix)


Dave Seaman - My Own Worst Enemy (Original Mix)





I usually try to go through the artist's "topic" pages, otherwise you get more random quality when seeking out a particular track from John Doe uploads. If these links are still blocked in Canada then you can search YouTube by artist and track but the sound quality may be different and as a result subsequent discussions may prove problematic since it's not the same exact file being discussed.


----------



## Slater (Mar 9, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Slater may be able to chime in on removing the foam that sits between the mesh screen and BA to open things up on your ES3. Just a thought....



Don't have the ES3 - It's one of the few KZs I don't have.

If they did the foam like other IEMs (KZ ZS3, BlitzWolf ES1, etc), it should be as simple as gently lifting the nozzle mesh off with a sewing needle, and pulling the foam out with said needle (or tweezers). Then putting the nozzle screen back on.


----------



## CYoung234

Otto Motor said:


> The included "starline" tips are actually quite good and highly appreciated here - I just ordered some more from aliexpress. You will have to find out for yourself whether you like comply foam tips. I personally do not, and many others don't either.
> 
> Did you, as a first step, play with the different sizes of the included tips? Do you have any other earphones the tips of which you can try out on our ZS6?
> 
> If there is a problem with the included tips, what is it?



The starlines are good, but I am finding for myself that the KZ Turbo / Whirlwind tips are even better. They have a larger bore, so they really work well. I also have some Tennmak Turbo / Whirlwinds on order, which are supposed to be more durable than the KZ ones. Actually for me, with these tips, I have a hard time imagining that you could want MORE bass. These go very deep and have a lot of slam. Very dynamic!


----------



## CYoung234

zazaboy said:


> guys how can I improve the bass of kz zs6 anyone have some suggestion for tips I cant get a good seal with kz zs6 thanks



Sorry - I forgot to include your quote - see my reply to Otto Motor, but I like KZ Turbo / Whirlwinds with my ZS6's...


----------



## mrmoto050

DocHoliday said:


> I don't recall. You'll have to search tor hakuzen's original post for more detail.
> 
> Also, Otto, I will quote one of hakuzen's earlier posts in order to paint a clearer picture.


Will do, ha, noticed that you live in Babylon also.


----------



## Long Vu

Bought kz zs5 for 20 bucks. The only nice thing I can say is they have good bass. But I guess you get what you paid.


----------



## Slater (Mar 9, 2018)

F4yze said:


> My washers arrived and I did Slater's sub bass increase mod. I did notice a difference. I like it.



I'm so glad that you were able to perform the mod, and that you like the results!

To help others considering this mod, how difficult would you say it was to perform (once you had the required materials ie washers and Lazer Bond glue)?




Makahl said:


> Really cool! Is the seal tight enough or you need to put some glue around the nozzle?





F4yze said:


> I use the laser bond glue as mentioned by Slater. It really comes in handy! I deposited a little of the glue elsewhere and dip the tip of a safety pin in it. I then use it to apply a tiny amount around the inside edge of the nozzle and the rim of the washer. Harden it with the UV light and done.



Yup, Lazer Bond is amazing stuff. So easy to work with due to it's syringe-like applicator, instant drying, and dirt cheap cost.

It's the glue I use about 97% of the time when modding IEMs.

The important thing you have to remember about it is that it can ONLY be used where the UV light can "reach" the glue to cure it. For example, if you tried to glue a coin to a piece of wood using a blob of Lazer Bond in the center of the coin, it wouldn't work. The UV light can't reach it after you stick the coin to the wood. If you tried to glue 2 pieces of clear glass together, it WOULD work because the UV light CAN reach the glue.

So with regards to IEM mods, Lazer Bond works great for things like filling IEM vent holes, because you can do it all from the outside of the IEM - just put a small drop on the vent hole and cure it with the UV light.

For the washer mod on the ZS6, you have to use the Lazer Bond on the "outside" of the washer - the perfect place is where the edge of the ZS6 nozzle lip meets the washer. I drew a few very crude illustrations to show what I mean:

This method *WILL* work because the curing light CAN reach the glue (click for larger view):



This method *will NOT work*, because the curing light can NOT reach the glue through the opaque surfaces (click for larger view):


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Mar 9, 2018)

Just found the ZSR in other colors on Ali.
2018 Newest KZ ZSR Earphone 6 units Driver Hifi Hybird Headphones In Ear Monitors Sport Detachable Headset for iphone se airpods
http://s.aliexpress.com/aiaeM3IZ?fromSns=Copy to clipboard


----------



## paulindss

MDH12AX7 said:


> Just found the ZSR in other colors on Ali.
> 2018 Newest KZ ZSR Earphone 6 units Driver Hifi Hybird Headphones In Ear Monitors Sport Detachable Headset for iphone se airpods
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aiaeM3IZ?fromSns=Copy to clipboard



I Would love to have the White.


----------



## Saoshyant

Purple like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ros...achable-In-Ear-Earphone-IEMs/32776710619.html would have been lovely.


----------



## Strat Rider

DocHoliday said:


> My take on the KZ ES3:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/reviews



Glad to see someone else's take on the ES3. I have been fortunate enough to dodge the QC issues. I originally bought the ES3 when they first came out, in the same order, I purchased the ZST pro, ok...ZST.
My first A/B with them after some regular use, I found the bass was certainly what I was looking for after tasting the ZST for classic rock, and I like the ES3 for old school blues. Not sure if the BA is the same between the two, but kicker for me was to find that the DD is a bit larger.
I saw your picture shows accompaniment of foam tips. Have you had an opportunity to tip roll ?
I don't have comfort foamies in my  bag o tricks yet, but I am really liking the ES3 with the wide bore whirlwinds.

Again for a good review.


----------



## charlescc2

So eBay has a pre-DST sale going on until 11 PM EST.  20% off site-wide.  This is a good time to grab... whatever honestly.  But specifically if you've been waiting on a lower price for something like the ZSRs or ZS6s.

Promo code is: PSPRING20

Someone is selling ZSRs for $21.99 (stock running low, like 7 left total between the two colors), 20% off = $17.59 (free shipping).
ZS6s can be found easily enough for $34.95, 20% off = $27.96 (free shipping).

Got me two pairs of ZSRs, one pair of ZS6s.  Hopefully this is able to help anybody who has been stubbornly waiting for a sale, like myself, to grab other pairs for friends/family.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 9, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> Glad to see someone else's take on the ES3. I have been fortunate enough to dodge the QC issues. I originally bought the ES3 when they first came out, in the same order, I purchased the ZST pro, ok...ZST.
> My first A/B with them after some regular use, I found the bass was certainly what I was looking for after tasting the ZST for classic rock, and I like the ES3 for old school blues. Not sure if the BA is the same between the two, but kicker for me was to find that the DD is a bit larger.
> I saw your picture shows accompaniment of foam tips. Have you had an opportunity to tip roll ?
> I don't have comfort foamies in my  bag o tricks yet, but I am really liking the ES3 with the wide bore whirlwinds.
> ...




Thanks for the thumbs up. 

I'm not fond of foamies by any means. The only foamies I actually like are the round ones you see attached to the ES3, but I use the wide-bore silicone eartips you see in a different photo. I took a photo with the foamies so others could see that they would fit. 



Strat Rider said:


> My first A/B with them after some regular use, I found the bass was certainly what I was looking for after tasting the ZST for classic rock, and I like the ES3 for old school blues. Not sure if the BA is the same between the two, but kicker for me was to find that the DD is a bit larger.
> I saw your picture shows accompaniment of foam tips. Have you had an opportunity to tip roll ?
> I don't have comfort foamies in my bag o tricks yet, but I am really liking the ES3 with the wide bore whirlwinds.



The ES3 does have a different and larger (10mm) dynamic driver than the ZST. 

I don't know if it was poor timing for KZ to release the ES3 just as they teased that the ZSR was arriving or if it was the truth about the abysmal QC at KZ that put these on the backburner for a lot of folks, but it seemed like the ES3 was about to slip through the cracks, which is unfortunate because it's quite good if you get a good pair. In cases such as this my recommendation would be for folks to order two pairs but that's just rewarding KZ's negligent behavior toward their products. 

It just sends the wrong message; "don't worry about quality control, we'll pay you anyway."

Like I said in the review "Love/errr......dislike relationship.





BTW, in light of KZ offering customized color combinations to sellers, the white ZSR with gold lettering would be just about perfect with a decent upgrade cable.


----------



## bsoplinger

MDH12AX7 said:


> Just found the ZSR in other colors on Ali.
> 2018 Newest KZ ZSR Earphone 6 units Driver Hifi Hybird Headphones In Ear Monitors Sport Detachable Headset for iphone se airpods
> http://s.aliexpress.com/aiaeM3IZ?fromSns=Copy to clipboard


Interesting. So only the green is translucent and the other colors are opaque huh? Don't think I'll be getting another color for the looks.


----------



## F4yze

Slater said:


> I'm so glad that you were able to perform the mod, and that you like the results!
> 
> To help others considering this mod, how difficult would you say it was to perform (once you had the required materials ie washers and Lazer Bond glue)?
> 
> ...



It's really easy to perform. Took me less than 10min. However, make sure enough glue is applied as one of the washers came off when I was changing the eartips.


----------



## Balazar

I usually just lurk around here. My main squeeze is t50rp mods. I purchased the zs6 and zst in late December and have given them my full attention since. I was so impressed that I had to put my impressions here. 

zs6 - black @qq version w/ kz silver cable and starline tips. 
Source: foobar2000 > WASAPI Fiio e18k
Tracks > 24/96 flac albums: Rodrigo y Gabriella: Foc, Tool: Lateralus, Rodriguez: Cold Fact, The Beatles: White Album, ELO: Alone in the Universe, Hans Zimmer: various motion picture soundtracks, Deadmau5: various tracks, The Afghan Whigs: In Spades, Jimmy Page & The Black Crowes: Live at the Greek. John Mayer: The Search for Everything, King Crimson: THRAK, Lindsey Sterling: Shatter Me.
Impression:  The stock cable had bad microphoneics. I used it for 20 minutes to test and then discarded it in favor of the silver one. I like the memory wire. It feels comfortable to me. Good tight bass, sub bass is kinda thin though. Lots of detail. Like on par with plainar cans detail. Recessed mids. Vocals sound distant. And oh God treble cannons! But the beautiful detail! Sibulence was awful, almost unbearable with female vocals. (Lindsay Sterling/Lizzy Hale: Shatter Me). I let them burn in on playlists for 48 hrs. Then 24hrs of headphones burn in sweeps and such. That helped a little. New Bee foam tips were the next step and they brought the sizzle down to an enjoyable level.  Sound stage is fantastic for IEM's. There were times that I had to take them out to verify that sound wasn't also coming from my laptop's built in speakers. Imaging is pretty good too. Yoshi Horikawa: Letter - even and smooth left to right transition. I can game on my laptop with these. The only drawback for me is the lack of sub bass and recessed mids resulting in distant vocals. I am going to try the tripple seal tips and maybe the washer mod. Overall, I think these achieve a sq level far above their price tag. I'm eager to see what kz's new lineup will bring. On a side note I did try some different sources such as phones, laptops, and a Sony 5 disc CD player. They all had dramatic effects on sq. Pairing these with the right source can make or break them. On a Dell Latitude e7270 w/ Realtek who know what chipset, they had no bass and piercing highs on 16/44. I changed the output in the control panel to 24/96 and they warmed right up. 24/192 made them sound veiled. Every output setting had a noticeable difference in sq. 

As for the ZST Pro, I listened to them for 20 minutes, then while trying the ZS6's my wife picked them up off my desk, tried them out for 5 minutes and then exclaimed "these are mine now!". I haven't seen them since.


----------



## nkramer

Balazar said:


> then while trying the ZS6's my wife picked them up off my desk, tried them out for 5 minutes and then exclaimed "these are mine now!". I haven't seen them since.



too true & too funny. 

... and welcome to the thread.


----------



## HungryPanda

Sounds like my wife too


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 10, 2018)

*Comparison EDR2 Red and Silver Filters*

1. The difference in the bass between L and R of the silver-filter pair is likely real; it persisted with different tips and with multiple attempts at insertion.

2. The red-filtered pair (purple & green) are identical there, and split the difference between the silver. The filters it seems do make a slight difference: the red-filtered pair are up to ~2.5 db lower through the upper mids-lower treble (both pairs measured with the same tips).

3. Nothing in the measurement explains the 'mushy' nature of the treble I heard on the silver pair, but that's about dynamics/speed/detail than frequency response. I didn't try the red pair.

*Disclaimer: *
A) The measurements performed by a guy who is active on another discussion list which is not allowed to be mentioned here. Lives one block away from me.

B) Comparing different earphones with different tips can lead to differences, particularly in the bass and lower mids, but in all cases I used the tips that worked well in my ears with that particular pair.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 10, 2018)

*Comparison KZ ZS5 v1 vs. KZ ZSR*

It is pretty obvious that, in order to remove the nasal/hollow, recessed mids in this very ZS5, one has to remove the prominent bump in the upper mids/lower treble.









*Disclaimer: *
A) The measurements performed by a guy who is active on another discussion list which is not allowed to be mentioned here. Lives one block away from me.

B) Comparing different earphones with different tips can lead to differences, particularly in the bass and lower mids, but in all cases I used the tips that worked well in my ears with that particular pair.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> *Comparison KZ ZS5 v1 vs. KZ ZSR*
> 
> It is pretty obvious that, in order to remove the nasal/hollow, recessed mids in this very ZS5, one has to remove the prominent bump in the upper mids/lower treble.
> 
> ...



BTW that "weird trough" spike thing can be ignored. It happens sometimes when measuring gear. I forget the exact scientific cause of it, but in a nut shell it's basically an erroneous reading.


----------



## CoiL (Mar 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> It is pretty obvious that, in order to remove the *nasal/hollow, recessed mids* in this very ZS5, one has to remove the prominent bump in the upper mids/lower treble.


I still don`t agree with this! Well, maybe I agree partly in "distant" out of headstage presentation mids what You call "hollow/nasal" but that`s all.
Upper mids/lower treble "bump" is present in many "lively" sounding IEMs and imo it is about subjective taste and perception/preference of sound representation.
But I do like ZSR DD FR part which looks very similar to ZS5v1, though, slightly more mid-bass.


----------



## Slater

Hey, I was tip rolling with the grey ZS6 "extra bass" model last night, and I noticed that *the nozzle now includes an eartip lip*!

This lip is not on any other colors (at least not yet); it is only on the grey model.

Hopefully this addresses one of the major complaints people have with losing their eartips in their ears.

This also demonstrates that, yet again, *KZ listens to users* and continuously (and quietly) improves their products (although this "silent upgrade" approach is quite annoying at times).


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 11, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Upper mids/lower treble "bump" is present in many "lively" sounding IEMs and imo it is about subjective taste and perception/preference of sound representation.


Yes, and that has always been the point. People have different tastes and there is nothing wrong with that. My story is that I have had Heybrook HB2 loudspeakers since 1985, and they have recessed mids...until recently, I didn't even know that. But I always wanted to have more presence in the mid range.

I once read that the more expensive earphones/headphones have more prominent mids - well, what defines an expensive earphone anyway: a flat frequency response (?), which is not liked by many here. Therefore I was left with the holy grail to find a cheap earphone that sounds like an expensive one - isn't everybody here doing that?  Step 1: Rock Zircon...that didn't last long. Still looking...the basso iT01 is probably such one, albeit in a higher price category. It is described as technically superior over the Sennheiser ie800. The ZSR pleasantly surprised me and exceeded my expectations.

Got a measurement for the pricy UE900S but it may have to be reviewed before it is being posted. Spoiler alert: its frequency  response is completely different from the ZS5 and ZSR.

As to good sounding earphones with bumps in the curve: is there a way to distinguish refined/expensive earphones from their frequency response curves? Well, cheapos typically have the "bathtub" curve, but that may not be universally applicable.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Hey, I was tip rolling with the grey ZS6 "extra bass" model last night, and I noticed that *the nozzle now includes an eartip lip*!
> 
> This lip is not on any other colors (at least not yet); it is only on the grey model.
> 
> ...



That's nice of them to add the lip, as it annoys me on my ZS6 as they sometimes stay in my ears when I remove the earphones.

Do your grey version sound the same as your other ZS6's?


----------



## cottonbud

Slater said:


> Hey, I was tip rolling with the grey ZS6 "extra bass" model last night, and I noticed that *the nozzle now includes an eartip lip*!


Can you take a photo?


----------



## Otto Motor

Here in comparison the frequency response of the UE900S (list price $399; $179 at massdrop), my personal benchmark.
Disclaimer same as for the other measurements. Huge difference in mids and treble compared to ZSR and ZS5.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> Do your grey version sound the same as your other ZS6's?



Stay tuned for that analysis


----------



## vladstef (Mar 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Here in comparison the frequency response of the UE900S (list price $399; $179 at massdrop), my personal benchmark.
> Disclaimer same as for the other measurements. Huge difference in mids and treble compared to ZSR and ZS5.



Something has to be wrong here, I doubt that it has 10db drop in mid range. Inner Fidelity's graph shows around 5db of similar-ish drop.
On another note, your ZS5v1 graph shows exactly what's wrong with its treble. I do get the reasoning behind ZS6 and ZS5v2 now, they wanted a better treble response overall except that they forgot that they also needed to eliminate peak (maybe use 2 different drivers?).

I do hope that ZS10 fixes this with proper tubing from BAs and dampeners, their BAs obviously need it (like any other BA...).

One more thing crossed my mind - given the impressions of the 'extended bass' ZS6, KZ might've used some sort of new BA in combination with their old treble BA (and a pair of these 2 are probably ending up in ZS10) - completely speculative but kinda logical given the past year of KZ's releases.


----------



## Sebilion

I am quite confused about all the different models that are coming soon. Anybody knows when this products will be available for consumers? Which ones will most probably have the best specs? I think I'll go for the kz zs10, hopefully they will have similar and even better output with my kz zs6.


----------



## Otto Motor

vladstef said:


> Something has to be wrong here, I doubt that it has 10db drop in mid range. Inner Fidelity's graph shows around 5db of similar-ish drop.
> On another note, your ZS5v1 graph shows exactly what's wrong with its treble. I do get the reasoning behind ZS6 and ZS5v2 now, they wanted a better treble response overall except that they forgot that they also needed to eliminate peak (maybe use 2 different drivers?).
> 
> I do hope that ZS10 fixes this with proper tubing from BAs and dampeners, their BAs obviously need it (like any other BA...).
> ...


Yes, and this is acknowledged. The person who performed the measurements wrote me:
"I did look at the Innerfidelity UE900 measurement, and it seems that compared to the uncompensated version I have a hump in the mids. Dunno if that's going to be reflected with all others. I do, though, get generally similar IEM measurements to some of the other amateur curves I've seen.

Generally though, as I said, don't trust them as absolutes - but I think they do highlight relative differences fairly reliably, so the ZS5 vs ZSR curves do actually have meaning. Then the absolutes have to be interpreted in terms of what you hear. (ZS5 too high around 3k) and against other people's measurements (which show the same thing)."


----------



## Slater

cottonbud said:


> Can you take a photo?



Photo of the new nozzle lip on the grey ZS6 "extra bass" model (click for larger view):


----------



## Slater

Sebilion said:


> I am quite confused about all the different models that are coming soon. Anybody knows when this products will be available for consumers? Which ones will most probably have the best specs? I think I'll go for the kz zs10, hopefully they will have similar and even better output with my kz zs6.



Very little information is out right now. All we have are the photos that were posted and some basic specs about shell material and # of drivers.

Everything else remains to be seen - sound, price, availability, etc etc.

So for now we all have to wait with anticipation


----------



## CoiL

Otto Motor said:


>


Yeah, that looks like completely different sound signature. This seems very mids-oriented IEM.
Interesting downslope between 1K-2K and this also has little bump between 2K-3K, "like" ZS5v1 and many others - imo it is FR region which helps to result in "lively sound" that most of ppl like. 
Would be interesting to hear UE900S but I suspect it is not for my taste. Tomorrow I`ll probably receive my IT01. Will be interesting to hear differences in sound and compare FR graphs.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 11, 2018)

Slater said:


> Photo of the new nozzle lip on the grey ZS6 "extra bass" model (click for larger view):


I wonder whether KZ are really listening to their customers or whether most slight modifications are a function of the availability of parts. For example, KZ5 v2 sounds different from KZ ZS5 v1 because KZ ran out of their old drivers and used the ones for the new KZ ZS6 model. And the later generation ZS6 contain the drivers of the newer ZSR...and so on. A Ponzi scheme driven by poor logistics...

That also may explain the "driver-o-rama" in the ATR and ATE as reported by CoiL


----------



## cottonbud (Mar 11, 2018)

Slater said:


> Photo of the new nozzle lip on the grey ZS6 "extra bass" model (click for larger view):



I don't think this little lip change a lot, but better than nothing for people who has this kind of problem.







Small detail, KZ also corrected typography and now lines of text have same distance between. This is game changer for me, now I really want updated one but in red color.


----------



## Sebilion

I have a silly question, I  got one of the first kz zs6 that came out. Is the kz zs6 extra bass that you are referring to the same model or some newer modification of it?


----------



## Slater (Mar 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I wonder whether KZ are really listening to their customers or whether most slight modifications are a function of the availability of parts. For example, KZ5 v2 sounds different from KZ ZS5 v1 because KZ ran out of their old drivers and used the ones for the new KZ ZS6 model. And the later generation ZS6 contain the drivers of the newer ZSR...and so on. A Ponzi scheme driven by poor logistics...
> 
> That also may explain the "driver-o-rama" in the ATR and ATE as reported by CoiL



I used to CNC manufacture automotive aftermarket performance parts.

That lip change has to be intentionally programmed into the CNC machine. In other words, you’d have to edit the current program for your “ZS6 nozzle”, and intentionally update the code to add the lip for all future manufacturing runs.

It’s not a matter of “availability of parts”, because you are CNC machining the parts as you need them.

That’s different than just buying a box full of ear tips or drivers that someone else made.


----------



## Slater

cottonbud said:


> I don't think this little lip change a lot, but better then nothing for people who has this kind of problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a very recent red (as well as black) one. Neither have nozzle lips. ONLY the grey 'extra bass' model.


----------



## Slater (Mar 11, 2018)

Sebilion said:


> I have a silly question, I  got one of the first kz zs6 that came out. Is the kz zs6 extra bass that you are referring to the same model or some newer modification of it?



The 'extra bass' model is the grey one. It replaced the discontinued green color, and just came out a few months ago.

However, it remains to be proven if it indeed DOES have 'extra bass'. I am still working on that part. I will know soon though; I've just been swamped with studying. Priorities, priorities


----------



## Slater (Mar 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I wonder whether KZ are really listening to their customers or whether most slight modifications are a function of the availability of parts. For example, KZ5 v2 sounds different from KZ ZS5 v1 because KZ ran out of their old drivers and used the ones for the new KZ ZS6 model.



No, ZS5 v1 sounds different from ZS5 v2 because they made intentional tuning changes - moving a BA from inside the shell to the nozzle, changing the impedance, and selecting a completely different Bellsing BA model to meet their tuning target.

Trust me, Bellsing isn’t running out of BA drivers anytime soon. They make millions of them for customers all over the world, and it’s even speculated that they are a contracted manufacturer for Knowles themselves. They have no problem keeping up with KZs pidley little demand (by comparison).

What makes you think they just "ran out of drivers" and the ZS5 v2 was born? How did the BA driver get moved then? Did they run out of places to put the old BA driver? Did they run out of resistors too, and randomly just start using different resistors?


----------



## cottonbud (Mar 11, 2018)

Slater said:


> I have a very recent red (as well as black) one.


So do I, it's ordinary red KZ6. I just hope in the future there will be red colored KZ6 with nozzle lip and corrected typography.


----------



## rendyG (Mar 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> (ZS5 too high around 3k) and against other people's measurements (which show the same thing)."



Are you sure about 3k being too high?
I believe that the measurements you posted are uncompensated, so 3k peak is actually desirable... right?




[Innerfidelity - Harman target response curve]


----------



## Sebilion

Slater said:


> The 'extra bass' model is the grey one. It replaced the discontinued green color, and just came out a few months ago.
> 
> However, it remains to be proven if it indeed DOES have 'extra bass'. I am still working on that part. I will know soon though; I've just been swamped with studying. Priorities, priorities


Thank you very much for the information. Please let me know when you know if it makes any difference. I will try to get my hands on some as well but it will take me at least a month until I have them.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> No, ZS5 v1 sounds different from ZS5 v2 because they made intentional tuning changes - moving a BA from inside the shell to the nozzle, changing the impedance, and selecting a completely different Bellsing BA model to meet their tuning target.
> 
> Trust me, Bellsing isn’t running out of BA drivers anytime soon. They make millions of them for customers all over the world, and it’s even speculated that they are a contracted manufacturer for Knowles themselves. They have no problem keeping up with KZs pidley little demand (by comparison).
> 
> What makes you think they just "ran out of drivers" and the ZS5 v2 was born? How did the BA driver get moved then? Did they run out of places to put the old BA driver? Did they run out of resistors too, and randomly just start using different resistors?


I have no doubt that Bellsing or whoever is capable of delivering enough drivers, I was speculating that KZ didn't order enough of any one kind and just put the next-order/generation drivers in their old models.


----------



## Slater (Jul 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> The 'extra bass' model is the grey one. It replaced the discontinued green color, and just came out a few months ago.
> 
> However, it remains to be proven if it indeed DOES have 'extra bass'. I am still working on that part. I will know soon though; I've just been swamped with studying. Priorities, priorities



OK folks, I've finished my ZS6 "extra bass" investigation.

Bottom line, there is NO difference with the "extra bass" model, other than the color (grey), a lip on the nozzle (available on SOME of the grey color only), the extra bass packaging has a different "blahblah@qq.com" email address, and the tiny writing on the shell has been centered properly.

NO "extra bass"
NO different BA driver configuration (regardless of the "new" marketing literature implying otherwise)
NO better sound
and *NO version 2*
The "extra bass" version is literally the same as all previous ZS6 models.

*Just buy the color you like, or whatever one is cheapest/on sale, and enjoy.*

Get the grey one if you want a nozzle lip to prevent tips from falling off in your ear. Other than the color and the nozzle lip, ALL ZS6 ARE ALL THE SAME.

_Also, be aware that not ALL of the grey ZS6 have the nozzle lip. And SOME of the non-grey ZS6 produced in 2018 are coming from KZ WITH the nozzle lip. It's just kind of random if you'll get one with or without a nozzle lip._

Every ZS6 I have tested sound identical to one another, and have virtually identical FR graphs - multiple blacks, red, green, and grey "extra bass" models purchased at various times ranging from August 2017 until March 2018). There were MINOR variances between them all (1dB here, 1dB there), which is most likely due to slight impedance differences between them (ranging from 13.1ohms to 13.7ohms). It is not audibly different though - they all sound identical.

I also opened every one of them all up, and examined the drivers, wiring, and crossover resistors. There were slight driver differences in the early ones (specifically, the large DD has 2 different vent filters on the magnet). But based on the FR graphs the differences between the vent filters do not make any difference at all. Perhaps they were sourced from 2 different companies or some such reason. Who knows; who cares - it makes no difference at all.

Note that I didn't tear out the BAs and verify they were all the same part #s (ie 30095). If the evidence (listening and FR measurements) indicated there was a difference, I probably would have been willing to. But I saw no need to destroy >$70 worth of IEMs just to prove something I proved using 2 other methods. If someone else wants to, be my guest.

Now, who's to say that KZ won't quietly revise the ZS6 AND REALLY MAKE a v2 at some point in the future? But as of right now, there is ONLY 1 VERSION OF THE ZS6 (sound-wise).

Here's 2 of the graphs so you can see for yourself (uncompensated, quick and dirty). Remember, the very minor +/- 1 or 2dB variances here and there are normal and expected when measuring gear (due to slightly different insertions and whatnot from run to run, as well as the slight impedance differences between each of my particular units).

(click for larger views)


----------



## C2thew (Mar 11, 2018)

This is my filter mod that i've done to my ZS6. What you are looking at is essentially a very small piece of gauze tape that i placed on top of both BA drivers reducing the annoying SSSS exaggerated sibilance.  The end result is a much more pleasant listening sound to the ZS6 that doesn't fatigue my ears.  I am very fascinated that the grey ZS6's have that lip on the tip as that was one of the annoying things that I've found with the ZS6 would be that the silicone tips would fall off in my pocket.

I'm also annoyed by the fact that the "extra bass" model is nothing more then a correction to the lip of the headphone and did nothing to actually add any extra bass to the ZS6.  Shame on KZ for doing that. They should have just updated their entire product line with the added lip without charging more for the grey version.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Just for everyone's Info, not all gray ZS6's have the lip. I have a pair from Amazon purchased in January without a lip and with the old uneven lettering. Have a 2nd gray pair coming from Ali... Hope they have the lip for my wide bore tips.


----------



## Slater (Mar 11, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> Just for everyone's Info, not all gray ZS6's have the lip. I have a pair from Amazon purchased in January without a lip and with the old uneven lettering. Have a 2nd gray pair coming from Ali... Hope they have the lip for my wide bore tips.



Wow, interesting info. Out of curiousity, did your white box have an email address on back that ended in blahbah@qq.com, or does your have blahblah@foxmail.com?

I guess I'm the lucky one that mine has a lip (although I've never had a problem with tips coming off in my ears).

Thanks for letting us know.


----------



## Otto Motor

Radek Jandl said:


> Are you sure about 3k being too high?
> I believe that the measurements you posted are uncompensated, so 3k peak is actually desirable... right?
> 
> 
> ...




That Harman target response curve is a target for a particular measurement system (of the HATS - head-and-torso-simulator - type) and used for headphones not IEMs.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> Wow, interesting info. Out of curiousity, did your white box have an email address on back that ended in blahbah@qq.com, or does your have blahblah@foxmail.com?
> 
> I guess I'm the lucky one that mine has a lip (although I've never had a problem with tips coming off in my ears).
> 
> Thanks for letting us know.





Slater said:


> Wow, interesting info. Out of curiousity, did your white box have an email address on back that ended in blahbah@qq.com, or does your have blahblah@foxmail.com?
> 
> I guess I'm the lucky one that mine has a lip (although I've never had a problem with tips coming off in my ears).
> 
> Thanks for letting us know.



Slater, 
Yes, my gray ZS6 came in a white box with the qq address. No lip on the nozzle.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


>


Do the red filters make a difference for these ugly treble peaks?


----------



## Slater (Mar 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Do the red filters make a difference for these ugly treble peaks?



Nope, unfortunately not at all.

I had already sent you a PM regarding the FR testing of nylon nozzle filters 

Basically, they scoop out the midrange, making IEMs MORE v-shaped. No effect on bass, no effect on treble.

Knowing what I know now, I'm only going to use nylon filters in very limited cases (such as on W shaped or extremely mid-forward IEMs, because I don't like how they have that sound like a cross between a cheap transistor radio and your head being down inside of a garbage can).

Before I knew this info, I had tried them on the ZS6 thinking they would help filter some of the treble spikes. Once I finished my FR testing, off the nylon filters came!


----------



## maxxevv

My grey ZS6 that came last Friday has the lip too.
Haven't looked at the box details though.

But sound quality seems identical. At least to my ears. Certain vocal tracks will generate sibilance as per my green one.. But its still very good for instrumental tracks and most male vocals where the sibilance is not really noticeable.


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> My grey ZS6 that came last Friday has the lip too.
> Haven't looked at the box details though.
> 
> But sound quality seems identical. At least to my ears. Certain vocal tracks will generate sibilance as per my green one.. But its still very good for instrumental tracks and most male vocals where the sibilance is not really noticeable.



Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, the ZS6 is an awesome IEM (despite some sibilance), and as you said very good for a lot of genres.

My goal was just to get to the bottom of all of the "v2 speculation".


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Nope, unfortunately not at all.
> 
> I had already sent you a PM regarding the FR testing of nylon nozzle filters
> 
> ...


Nothing like empirical data to move you in the right direction direction... Followed of course with listening tests to see if the empirical data actually means anything, lol.


----------



## CoiL

Otto Motor said:


> That Harman target response curve is a target for a particular measurement system (of the HATS - head-and-torso-simulator - type) and used for headphones not IEMs.


Then, can You please post Harman target response curve meant for IEMs? Would like to see differences. Sorry, I don`t have time to do research atm.
Imo, doesn`t matter, FR target is still what hits&enters our ears/eardrums.


----------



## bsoplinger (Mar 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> Nope, unfortunately not at all.
> 
> I had already sent you a PM regarding the FR testing of nylon nozzle filters
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity is there at least a semi-common material that handles highs? I'd assume that those tiny Knowles filters would work but the idea of something designed for that tiny nozzle seems like a very fiddly thing for the average person. I also thought that they were expensive.

What about that one brand of ear tips that have built in filters? Can't remember the name but they had 3 amounts of filtering to choose from.


----------



## nkramer

i actually picked up some knowles filters & tubing to try adding a proper filter to the BAs (but haven't got around to to it yet)

the tips with filters you're talking about are the ostry tips http://a.co/0fITdjW (OS100 lightest change --> OS300 heaviest change)


> They won't make a drastic change in IEM sound though, but if you think a certain IEM is _slightly_ too bright, then you can modify the sound. It's like a 2-3dB difference.
> They seem to make the S sounds more like SH sounds.
> 
> from: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...s_3_types_of_tuning_eartips_for_iems/cvcgenj/



comply also has similar ones that they sell as "WaxGuard" ones, only available in the TX series & not sure what effect (if any) they have on sound


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Out of curiosity is there at least a semi-common material that handles highs?



Now that I have my measurement rig set up, that’s my next step (ie to tackle measuring the different filters).


----------



## rendyG (Mar 12, 2018)

nkramer said:


> comply also has similar ones that they sell as "WaxGuard" ones, only available in the TX series & not sure what effect (if any) they have on sound



Last weekend when I was at local audio show I got lucky and grabbed many Comply samples for free, including these TX series you are talking about.
I can show you an effect it has on my blitzwolf T400 vs TX400 (built in filter).


Spoiler: Effect of comply TX400 filter tips on Blitzwolf iem



Note that these measurements are taken with cheap JOYO I-MIC in my smartphone, so only relative changes can be observed.
 
*T400 left, TX400 right*
If you download the pictures and then switch back and forth, you can spot differences more easily. (12k peak probably coupler resonance, thus not affected by filter).

I can measure different iems, if you find it beneficial.


----------



## rendyG

Otto Motor said:


> That Harman target response curve is a target for a particular measurement system (of the HATS - head-and-torso-simulator - type) and used for headphones not IEMs.


You are right, but still, if you look HERE, you can see that IEM actually bypasses the ear shapes and therefore it isn´t boosted in these frequencies.. again thanks Tyll for awesome writeup.
Yea, understanding iems I think is harder than headphones, but from what I´ve heard, Etymotic sounded the most "neutral" to me AND they follow the Harman target, pretty closely, so I still believe it also somewhat applies to iems...


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## Otto Motor

CoiL said:


> Then, can You please post Harman target response curve meant for IEMs? Would like to see differences. Sorry, I don`t have time to do research atm.
> Imo, doesn`t matter, FR target is still what hits&enters our ears/eardrums.


Doesn't exist as far as I know. And again, the curve has been developed for a certain measurement system only.


----------



## nkramer

Radek, thanks for the measurements/effect, good to know. (relativity/accuracy with these type of comparisons don't matter because you're only looking for the differences) kudos!

also, that was the same inner fidelity article i was just going to mention....


----------



## MyPants

Totally derailing the thread a bit, but it's good to see @Slater back in the iem game after the surgery. Wishing you good health going forward.


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## CoiL (Mar 12, 2018)

Guys, I have IT01 in my ears (which are great btw) but I`m quite surprised how well ZS5v1 stands up against them!
Very first impressions, I hear IT01 being more V-shaped and more bass, littlebit "smaller" soundstage (less expansive) and better low-mids.
ZS5v1 seems more neutral and "airy" with somewhat better ambient soundstage/space separation.
This is by very short OOTB listening though and might change later...


----------



## Otto Motor

Received the ZS6. No lips. Ordered from gearbest on 10th Jan. 

First impression, after 1/2 hour: not fatiguing so far, treble not annoying...sound nothing special.


----------



## rayliam80

CoiL said:


> Guys, I have IT01 in my ears (which are great btw) but I`m quite surprised how well ZS5v1 stands up against them!
> Very first impressions, I hear IT01 being more V-shaped and more bass, littlebit "smaller" soundstage (less expansive) and better low-mids.
> ZS5v1 seems more neutral and "airy" with somewhat better ambient soundstage/space separation.
> This is by very short OOTB listening though and might change later...



Your impressions also compare well with how I find the ZS6 and the IT01. In addition, I find the IT01 to be thicker in sound, more lush especially in the midrange and bass, and vocals seem to be more present/forward compared to the ZS6. I really enjoy both of them though. I thought about getting the ZS5 but I'll skip them for now. Possibly with brain burn-in, the IT01s seem to balance out over a few days so I really don't think they're all that v-shape anymore. Maybe more U shaped. Pricewise, when I got the ZS6's on sale/promo code at Gearbest for around $20, the ZS6 were definitely the much better bargain. The Head-Fi herd/hype seem to largely agree that the IT01 is the current bargain if you're interested in IEMs in the $100 - $300 range. However, the most I've ever spent so far for a set of IEM/Earphones has been the IT01 so I can't really say.


----------



## Podster

OK, here's some input from the Peanut Gallery! Since I've only owned 20 pair of KZ's I'd say I've listened to a few now. Before I get started I love bass but solid and exact bass not hyped up as in the latest model I just received, these (remember guys this is just to my ears and I have a penchant for mid-range as well) have way to much bass for my taste, it literally destroys what I hear as great mids and highs For my ears the bass simply steals the show, sad part is I think they are absolutely beautiful iem's and the fit is perfect I'm going to let them burn for a few hundred hours and change to a SP cable and give them another go before retiring them to my overflow box for my kids. My gray ZS6's from Gearbest have the lip and are still my fave KZ's (Looking forward to the ZS10's)

You think KZ will ever figure out how to put the RIGHT and LEFT on certain iem's so people don't look at you and say your earpiece is up side down! 



 

ZSR has tip lip



 

Dude, your iem is upside down Alternately referred to as wrong side up Guess I could tell them they are supposed to look at them while doing a hand stand


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Before I get started I love bass but solid and exact bass not hyped up as in the latest model I just received, these (remember guys this is just to my ears and I have a penchant for mid-range as well) have way to much bass for my taste, it literally destroys what I hear as great mids and highs For my ears the bass simply steals the show, sad part is I think they are absolutely beautiful iem's and the fit is perfect
> 
> ZSR has tip lip



Cool, I don’t remember my green ZSR having a lip. I’ll have to double check when I get home.

As far as the bass being too overwhelming, that’s extremely easy to tweak and tune. Just open up the vent hole as much as needed to get the bass where you want it.

No need to waste a perfectly good IEM that you love otherwise (fit, mids, treble, etc).


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Cool, I don’t remember my green ZSR having a lip. I’ll have to double check when I get home.
> 
> As far as the bass being too overwhelming, that’s extremely easy to tweak and tune. Just open up the vent hole as much as needed to get the bass where you want it.
> 
> No need to waste a perfectly good IEM that you love otherwise (fit, mids, treble, etc).



Guess there is no reversing once I expand that port so I better do small increments!


----------



## Slater (Mar 12, 2018)

Podster said:


> Guess there is no reversing once I expand that port so I better do small increments!



In general, yes small increments.

But even if you go too big, you can just cover the vent with tape and repoke smaller holes.

The hole you want to manipulate is near the bottom of the nozzle, on the opposite side of the words “ZSR hybrid technology”.


----------



## Podster

Already enlarging it, anything inside I should worry about damaging


----------



## Slater (Mar 12, 2018)

Podster said:


> Already enlarging it, anything inside I should worry about damaging



Yeah, the vent is directly over the large dynamic driver (which is about 6mm down inside the shell). So only stick your pokey tool in the hole no deeper than about 2mm.

You can see what you're dealing with in this shot:



Honestly, the hole in the shell is plenty big enough, and all you really need to do is poke through that white screen. The white screen is little round piece of micropore mounted on the inside of the shell (which is creating an artificially smaller surface area). So if you poke through the micopore you have in effect made the vent hole "larger". If you hold your sewing needle at different angles, you can make more than 1 hole in the micro pore as well (again, effectively making the hole progressively "larger").

Make sense?


----------



## MDH12AX7

Just received my 2nd set ofs gray ZS6's . Here are a few observations. The new pair has the lip on the nozzles. Yay! They don't sound noticeably different than the old ones, but the nozzle is bigger around on the exterior. The inside diameter is identical. I have some Dunu DN1000's and used a pair of the silver metal ring spacers on my old ZS6 to push the tips out towards the end of the nozzles for tighter bass and more comfort with the sharp angles on the ZS6 shell. The spacers will not fit on the new ZS6 nozzles. Too fat. The lip allowed be to bias the tips outward without the spacers so it's a win in my book. Happy!


----------



## MDH12AX7

Here is a picture of the spacer on the old ZS6.


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## Slater (Mar 12, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> Just received my 2nd set ofs gray ZS6's . Here are a few observations. The new pair has the lip on the nozzles. Yay! They don't sound noticeably different than the old ones, but the nozzle is bigger around on the exterior. The inside diameter is identical. I have some Dunu DN1000's and used a pair of the silver metal ring spacers on my old ZS6 to push the tips out towards the end of the nozzles for tighter bass and more comfort with the sharp angles on the ZS6 shell. The spacers will not fit on the new ZS6 nozzles. Too fat. The lip allowed be to bias the tips outward without the spacers so it's a win in my book. Happy!



FYI, if you still want to space out the eartip on the new one that has the lip, you can use an oring (like from a keyboard).

You can also take an old silicone eartip (or a size you don't use), flip it inside out, trim a section of the core off, and use that as a spacer.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> FYI, if you still want to space out the eartip on the new one that has the spacer, you can use an oring (like from a keyboard).
> 
> You can also take an old silicone eartip (or a size you don't use), flip it inside out, trim a section of the core off, and use that as a spacer.


Good advice as always.  Thanks Slater.


----------



## Slater (Mar 12, 2018)

OK, I'm back with some more intersting KZ nuggets.

The EDR1 vs EDR2. How do they differ?

EDR1 has a longer shell, EDR2 is shorter
EDR1 is a bit heavier (made of zinc alloy), EDR2 is 100% aluminum (super light)
EDR1 is glossy gunmetal greyish black, EDR2 is matte finish (silver) aluminum
The vent holes are different between the models
While they are somewhat similar in sound (like siblings), the EDR1 is more v-shaped, and has noticeably more sub bass and slightly more recessed midrange. The EDR2 has less sub bass (and is more rolled off), and has more midrange (comes across as a little more neutralish vs the EDR1, similar to the HDS3). Treble sounds basically the same between them.
I personally prefer the EDR1. FR measurements aside, it just sounds better to me. I will go as far as saying it sounds as good as many hybrids, and even better than some as well. All for $4, shipped to your door. If you like genres that sound good with a v-shaped tune (rap, EDM, modern pop, etc), you won't possibly believe that you just paid $4 for sound this good.

It's also perfect if you are sensitive to the sharp 10k treble spikes (or the splashy sibilance) of the ZST, ZS5 v2, or ZS6. The EDR1 has nice sparkly treble, but not right at 10k. No sharp spikes, and no sibilance. Just bright, sparkly, airy smoothness - think of it like a nice crisp glass of champagne, but for your ear holes.

Here's the FR measurements.

Sorry, my FR app doesn't overlay the graphs. I'll have to do it manually in Photoshop later. If you download them to a computer and flip between the graphs, it will be very apparent.  You can also click on the 1st photo, and use the arrow keys in the browser to flip back and forth to see the differences quite easily.


----------



## F4yze

I highly recommend doing the washer ring mod on the zs6 if you want a more focused bass with a really nice "thump" to it. The zs6 is my favourite iem now.


----------



## zazaboy

F4yze said:


> I highly recommend doing the washer ring mod on the zs6 if you want a more focused bass with a really nice "thump" to it. The zs6 is my favourite iem now.


 any instructions how to it... I am not satisfied with KZ zs6 red it sounds weird too me... Kz es3 sound much better too me


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> OK, I'm back with some more intersting KZ nuggets.
> 
> The EDR1 vs EDR2. How do they differ?
> …
> I personally prefer the EDR1. FR measurements aside, it just sounds better to me. I will go as far as saying it sounds as good as many hybrids, and even better than some as well. All for $4, shipped to your door. If you like genres that sound good with a v-shaped tune (rap, EDM, modern pop, etc), you won't possibly believe that you just paid $4 for sound this good…


Unless you want them swum from China you have to go whole hog and splurge on the shipping. Just under $10 with e-packet for 2 pair. And since they're so good and cheap who wouldn't want a 2nd pair?

In fact I'm waiting on my pair of them from your suggestion awhile back about sweat-proof earphones. You suggested that at a cost of about $4-$5 why not get a few pairs of the EDR1 or EDR2 and that I would go through a half dozen sets before I equalled the $30 cost of some other options. So that's what I did. Took the EDR2 I had with me when exercising and ordered 2 backup pairs. With the number of times I've snagged the cable already I'm sure I'll be replacing them soon enough. I'd be way more upset if I just ruined a $30 pair than a $5 one.


----------



## Otto Motor

F4yze said:


> I highly recommend doing the washer ring mod on the zs6 if you want a more focused bass with a really nice "thump" to it. The zs6 is my favourite iem now.


The bass as is is already 9 dB above neutral.


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## Otto Motor (Mar 13, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Then, can You please post Harman target response curve meant for IEMs? Would like to see differences. Sorry, I don`t have time to do research atm.
> Imo, doesn`t matter, FR target is still what hits&enters our ears/eardrums.


The NAD Viso HP50 offers  the flattest compensated curve on Tyll's implementation of the Harman target (below about 6k, anyway). I will have to listen to my HP50 and compare to the ZS5 in the upper mids and lower treble...


----------



## maxwelled (Mar 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> FYI, if you still want to space out the eartip on the new one that has the lip, you can use an oring (like from a keyboard).
> 
> You can also take an old silicone eartip (or a size you don't use), flip it inside out, trim a section of the core off, and use that as a spacer.





MDH12AX7 said:


> Good advice as always.  Thanks Slater.



Slater is talking about these o-rings for Mechanical Keyboards that you can buy on eBay; 120pcs for $1-2USD shipped from China, or $4-5USD(marked up) from here in the USA. I've been using them and they work great and easy to replace 






ahh, this new site is hard to get used to.


----------



## F4yze

Otto Motor said:


> The bass as is is already 9 dB above neutral.



It's for the bass heads out there who still appreciate good mids and highs. There are some here who still find the bass lacking the punch so that mod is for them.


----------



## F4yze

zazaboy said:


> any instructions how to it... I am not satisfied with KZ zs6 red it sounds weird too me... Kz es3 sound much better too me



Slater provided the instructions a few pages back. It's really simple. Just buy some M2 washers and replace the metal nozzle screen with it. Use laser bond glue to keep it in place. While you're at it, you can glue one of the BA shut if you find the treble too strong as well.


----------



## rendyG

Slater said:


> Here's the FR measurements.
> 
> Sorry, my FR app doesn't overlay the graphs. I'll have to do it manually in Photoshop later. If you download them to a computer and flip between the graphs, it will be very apparent.  You can also click on the 1st photo, and use the arrow keys in the browser to flip back and forth to see the differences quite easily.


 Nice graphs, what coupler / mic do you use?


----------



## maxxevv

Not sure if you guys can actually see this, but its a promotional video of the ZS10 found on Facebook in one of the groups. 

https://www.facebook.com/david.reagen.12/videos/1867872529890613/


----------



## rayliam80

Thought


maxxevv said:


> Not sure if you guys can actually see this, but its a promotional video of the ZS10 found on Facebook in one of the groups.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/david.reagen.12/videos/1867872529890613/



Is it from a private facebook group? It says content is not available right now.


----------



## rayliam80

And if anyone is interested...Auvio wide-bore ear tips are on sale @ Radio Shack - Set of 2 tips (4 pieces) for $1 USD. Search for "replacement tips"


----------



## maxxevv (Mar 13, 2018)

Seems to be if that's the case. I'm part of the group, so I have problem viewing it. Its a 32s clip.

Can't find the video clip elsewhere, but here's some other photos, showing 3 colour choices.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXf-p5TVQAATEcs.jpg


----------



## Viber

Here's ZS10 promo vid


----------



## CoiL

Viber said:


> Here's ZS10 promo vid



Grrr.... me not want another KZ -.-


----------



## vladstef

So, according to that video, BAs don't have tubes? Risky I'd say and I don't think that anyone is making multi-BA IEMs without them (unless it's 1 or 2 in the nozzle).


----------



## Comebackboy (Mar 13, 2018)

I just bought the ZS6, but I feel that the bass is a little too strong for me. I was previously running with the ZS5v1 and Fiio E6, but unfortunately I lost that setup (left my whole damn pouch in a cab), so I had buy the ZS6 to tide me over until the ZS10 drops. Any EQ suggestions? I've been tinkering with the EQ, just seeing if anyone has any suggestions.

Also, the new silver cable looks and feels so much better than the previous plasticky one. I'm impressed.


----------



## Otto Motor

*KZ Cables and three-button remotes*

My ZS5 v1 came with a three-button remote. My ZS6 came with a one-button remote, and so do the current ZS5. The three-button remote appears to have disappeared from KZ earphones. 

Any upgrade/downgrade cable doesn't come with any remote/mic.

Did the early ZS6 ever come with a three-button remote?


----------



## bsoplinger

So the ZS10 = ZSR but with a crossover?


----------



## Comebackboy

bsoplinger said:


> So the ZS10 = ZSR but with a crossover?



ZS10 has 5 drivers per side, 4BA + 1DD


----------



## Slater

rayliam80 said:


> And if anyone is interested...Auvio wide-bore ear tips are on sale @ Radio Shack - Set of 2 tips (4 pieces) for $1 USD. Search for "replacement tips"



Are these really good tips or something? Never heard of Auvio.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Here's ZS10 promo vid




Don’t know how accurate the video is, but it only showed 30095 BA drivers. If there’s going to be (4) 30095, the ZS10 is going to have a treble spike the size of Mt. Everest.


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Grrr.... me not want another KZ -.-



LOL, that's just wrong Buddy You know good and well you have set the standard for KZ modding I know you are really kidding with that Grrr and I can't wait until you get your hands on a ZS10

So since I can't read Chinese can someone break those down for me, am I seeing like 8 BA's and a big drum DD?


----------



## Saoshyant

Slater said:


> Are these really good tips or something? Never heard of Auvio.



It’s the in store brand, and were highly recommended a couple years back.


----------



## Slater

Comebackboy said:


> I just bought the ZS6, but I feel that the bass is a little too strong for me. I was previously running with the ZS5v1 and Fiio E6, but unfortunately I lost that setup (left my whole damn pouch in a cab), so I had buy the ZS6 to tide me over until the ZS10 drops. Any EQ suggestions? I've been tinkering with the EQ, just seeing if anyone has any suggestions.
> 
> Also, the new silver cable looks and feels so much better than the previous plasticky one. I'm impressed.



If you don’t want to mess with EQ, and want to change the tuning via physical methods, the ZS5 v2 is extremely similar to the ZS6’s sound overall. The ZS5 v2 has less bass than the ZS6, because the bass vent hole is twice the diameter on the ZS5.

Note that the ZS5 v2 will sound different than the ZS5 v1 you had previously though (as mentioned, the ZS5 v2 sounds close to the ZS6).

If you’re handy with a drill, you can enlarge the bass vent on the ZS6 to match the size on the ZS5. Otherwise, the ZS5 v2 would be the ticket.


----------



## Podster (Mar 13, 2018)

Podster said:


> LOL, that's just wrong Buddy You know good and well you have set the standard for KZ modding I know you are really kidding with that Grrr and I can't wait until you get your hands on a ZS10
> 
> So since I can't read Chinese can someone break those down for me, am I seeing like 8 BA's and a big drum DD?



I use them on just about anything that does not work with Starlines, I wear the larges (mediums have the blue sleeves) with the green sleeves


----------



## bsoplinger

Comebackboy said:


> ZS10 has 5 drivers per side, 4BA + 1DD





Slater said:


> Don’t know how accurate the video is, but it only showed 30095 BA drivers. If there’s going to be (4) 30095, the ZS10 is going to have a treble spike the size of Mt. Everest.


I guess I wasn't clear, my comment was about the video where it shows the 30095 BA then at about 35 seconds zooms out to show it with another BA and a DD. I guess that they could double up on the BA to make a 2x2 grid of them (and shove that whole mess into the nozzle?) but that wasn't what the video implied. Perhaps KZ is very proud of their 30095 BA so that's why they showed just it. Or the other BA is not made by KZ so they didn't want to mention it? Even with a crossover to make 2 of the BA play midrange and the others highs it seems odd to use the same model for different ranges. @Slater perhaps it'll get the nickname of 'the ski jump' or 'Mt Everest' for that 4x30095 treble spike


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I use them on just about anything that does not work with Starlines, I wear the larges (mediums have the blue sleeves) with the green sleeves



Cool, I’ll give some a try.

I do some IT consulting for a Radio Shack. I’ll ask the owner to factor some tips into my pay


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> I use them on just about anything that does not work with Starlines, I wear the larges (mediums have the blue sleeves) with the green sleeves…


What tips are those?


----------



## Podster

Refer to @rayliam80 post on page 1937 THX for the tip Ray, buck is a great price


----------



## nxnje

So far.. are there any news about the new kz series?
I really wanna buy a new pair (memt x5 now as daily driver) to pair with my incoming AGPTEK m20, but the only one interesting is the zsr that is very similar to zs3 when it comes to the shape, and that was really uncomfortable to me.


----------



## Makahl

So no tubing and dampers on ZS10? Tbh, expected. I can imagine that would drastically slow down their production. At least BAs aren't placed at the nozzle now differently than the previous models.  I really hope this model will be an upgrade over a side-grade.


----------



## paulindss

Anyone here will receive trn v20 in a few days ? 

I'm afraid of finishing the order. If only i received my iem's fast i could be a guinea pig. But If i order now i Will receive with like 90 days anyway.


----------



## Slater (Mar 14, 2018)

Radek Jandl said:


> Nice graphs, what coupler / mic do you use?



Thanks.

I use a Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Microphone, and a modified 3cc syringe for the coupler.

The IEC 711 standard specifices a 1.26cc volume to simulate the volume of the average human ear canal. The ID of the 3cc syringe is close to the same diameter of an ear canal, and it is graduated with accurate markings so it was easy to cut it down to the proper 1.26cc volume. I added a small o-ring to the iMM-6 microphone, which fits so securely and air tight in the plunger end that I don't even need to use any sort of tape to seal it.

I also drilled small hole in the side of the syringe, which I cover with a small piece of tape. Before I insert an IEM, I peel back the tape (exposing the hole), so that the air pressure equalizes (and I don't get driver flex etc). Then I insert the IEM, reseal the hole with the tape, and take my measurements.

The iMM-6 microphone was $24. The coupler, oring, and tape was free.

For measurements, I use an iOS app called AudioTools ($20). The app allows the loading of the Dayton Audio calibration file (which you download from the Dayton Audio website).

There's also a PC program called REW, which I plan to try but haven't had the time yet. Down the road I also plan to upgrade to a better mic, and I would like to make a full size headphone rig as well. But for now the iPhone/AudioTools/iMM-6 method was inexpensive, is quick and easy to use, highly portable, and seems to be fairly accurate.


----------



## bsoplinger

A heads up about that 15 pair of Starlines for a buck or whatever crazy price they were… Mine arrived, M and L, and they're identical to the newer black ones from recent KZ purchases. @Slater was right though, the older slightly translucent thus greyer in color ones are softer but the black ones aren't hard, just not as malleable.


----------



## CoiL

Mess with port hole sizes and use wide-bore tips.


Slater said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I use a Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Microphone, and a modified 3cc syringe for the coupler.
> 
> ...


Damn, cheap and good enough to make Your own comparative graphs for judging Your own hearing, taste and "wanted" IEM signature. I may have to contact You about this setup. Want to try this.


----------



## rendyG

Slater said:


> Thanks.
> I use a Dayton Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Microphone, and a modified 3cc syringe for the coupler.



The Dayton makes awesome things, unfortunately I can't find anything similar in EU.. The shipping would cost me more than mic itself.  So I'm using cheap uncalibrated mic for now... 
I use similar setup,  vinyl tube approx. 26mm long with 6mm inner diameter. It should equal a human ear and it resonates at 3kHZ, so I believe it.
Clever idea with that taped hole.

It is nice to have a rig for modding I hope we will come up with some new interesting ideas!


----------



## TLDRonin

bsoplinger said:


> A heads up about that 15 pair of Starlines for a buck or whatever crazy price they were… Mine arrived, M and L, and they're identical to the newer black ones from recent KZ purchases. @Slater was right though, the older slightly translucent thus greyer in color ones are softer but the black ones aren't hard, just not as malleable.


Link?


----------



## CoiL

Radek Jandl said:


> The Dayton makes awesome things, unfortunately *I can't find anything similar in EU*.. The shipping would cost me more than mic itself.


Didn`t want to hear this. Change of plans.


Radek Jandl said:


> I use similar setup,  *vinyl tube approx. 26mm long with 6mm inner diameter.* It should equal a human ear and it resonates at 3kHZ, so I believe it.


I wonder if some of You guys have used soft animal leather (waxed/oiled) inside tube to mimic human skin?
Sorry for OT.


----------



## Infected Mushroom

TLDRonin said:


> Link?



Here are the large ones.
The medium show up in the recommendations


----------



## Slater (Mar 14, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Didn`t want to hear this. Change of plans.
> 
> I wonder if some of You guys have used soft animal leather (waxed/oiled) inside tube to mimic human skin?
> Sorry for OT.



I’m certainly no expert, but keep in mind the industry standard (iec 711) coupler is a big hunk of solid stainless steel.

I don’t know how useful it would be to find a human skin analog. Maybe it would matter; maybe not. But there are a lot of people that use tubes (silicone, vinyl, etc). I’m sure leather would work, assuming you could get an airtight seal.

I know full size headphones setups do take into account the outer ear, and even incorporate a simulated ear on the measurement rig. There’s some great articles on the topic if you’re interested. I don’t know how much of it carries over to IEMs though, as those are directly inside of the ear canal.

My take on it is that I’m only interested in doing FR measurements on my own gear, even if my setup doesn’t produce results that perfectly match a manufacturer’s FR graph.

My goal was to setup something that produced as repeatable and consistent results as possible. The graduated syringe tube coupler is clear, so allows me to not only measure the exact volume inside the coupler, but to help ensure I insert the IEM to the exact same depth every time.

ALL materials, even your own ear, have resonances at certain frequencies. Some materials are in theory better than others. My understanding is that the ideal setup is one that moves the resonant frequencies out the 'normal' frequency range (preventing an influence on frequencies you’re ultimately measuring).

I think my coupler has a resonance in the lowest sub bass region. If you look carefully at my graphs, they always have a section of the graph that is comprised of very small amplitude “jagged” lines in the lower sub bass region. Since everywhere else is smooth, I’m thinking that perhaps the jagged section is a resonance. I am going to try using a clear silicone tube to see if the jagged lines in that region go away.


----------



## rendyG

CoiL said:


> Didn`t want to hear this. Change of plans.


You can buy it from Ebay here for approx. $40 shipped. I´m still not sure if this is gonna be a good investment in the future..


----------



## Slater

Radek Jandl said:


> I´m still not sure if this is gonna be a good investment in the future..



I’m not sure what you mean by this.

The vast majority of *hobbyists* use the iMM-6 calibrated microphone. It works extremely well, is affordable, and is natively recognized/supported with most (if not all) of the commonly used measurement applications.


----------



## nkramer

iMM-6... even works with some netbooks. (the pin configuration on the plug is standard "mobile" ring order, which is a little different than standard desktop mic/speaker inputs)


----------



## rendyG

Slater said:


> I’m not sure what you mean by this.
> 
> The vast majority of *hobbyists* use the iMM-6 calibrated microphone. It works extremely well, is affordable, and is natively recognized/supported with most (if not all) of the commonly used measurement applications.



Sorry if I haven´t expressed myself clearly. iMM-6 is great product, I still think you can measure even full-size headphone with it.
By investment i ment I can have for example Tinaudio T2 for the same price, tough decision


----------



## Slater (Mar 14, 2018)

Radek Jandl said:


> Sorry if I haven´t expressed myself clearly. iMM-6 is great product, I still think you can measure even full-size headphone with it.
> By investment i ment I can have for example Tinaudio T2 for the same price, tough decision



I gotcha. Yes, it's all about priorities.

Since I mod so much, it was important for me to get some way to subjectively measure gear, vs just relying on my ears. But at the same time, I am on a budget. The calibrated iMM-6 paired with a low cost coupler was the most affordable way to obtain that goal (and it’s surprisingly accurate).

You can spend tens of thousands of dollars on FR measurement setups! I certainly don't have that kind of money to burn LOL


----------



## oyobass

Radek Jandl said:


> You can buy it from Ebay here for approx. $40 shipped. I´m still not sure if this is gonna be a good investment in the future..


Amazon has it here for $23.95. If you order a set of eartips or whatever to get the order over $25, it ships for free, (at least in the US). Amazon free shipping is just a little faster than Gearbest paid shipping, lol.


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> Amazon has it here for $23.95. If you order a set of eartips or whatever to get the order over $25, it ships for free, (at least in the US). Amazon free shipping is just a little faster than Gearbest paid shipping, lol.



I think they were looking for alternative outlets, as @Radek Jandl  and @CoiL are located outside of the US.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> I think they were looking for alternative outlets, as @Radek Jandl  and @CoiL are located outside of the US.


Ah. Context is everything...

Thanks!


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 14, 2018)

got the kz edr1 today pretty cheap imho and they are pretty legit ... I wish I didnt bought the kz zs6 lol ... zs6 got more clarity..but kz edr1 has more bass... but I like the kz edr1 sound signature more... for some tracks.. more bass would be better.. hope kz ate has more bass


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> got the kz edr1 today pretty cheap imho and they are pretty legit ... I wish I didnt bought the kz zs6 lol ... zs6 got more clarity..but kz edr1 has more bass... but I like the kz edr1 sound signature more... for some tracks.. more bass would be better.. hope kz ate has more bass



EDR1 has more sub bass IMO. ATE is very natural sounding with a good soundstage. It’s good for rock, acoustic, vocals, etc.

Wow, you are a serious bass head if you want more sub bass than the EDR1. If you swap the stock tips for Starlines tips, that will maximize the bass on the EDR1.

ATE needs wide bore tips to really shine.


----------



## zazaboy

Slater said:


> EDR1 has more sub bass IMO. ATE is very natural sounding with a good soundstage. It’s good for rock, acoustic, vocals, etc.
> 
> Wow, you are a serious bass head if you want more sub bass than the EDR1. If you swap the stock tips for Starlines tips, that will maximize the bass on the EDR1.
> 
> ATE needs wide bore tips to really shine.



The subbass is great on edr1 need a bit more bass but its still ok..  I tryed the starlines tips... its great.. but i have ostry tips on them to optimize it for the vocals and the bass.. for my liking


----------



## Holypal

I saw a picture of real ZS10. It will be released this month, at similar price as ZS6.


----------



## zazaboy

i like the bass of kz es3, rock zircon, qkz dm300 with proper tips ...and kz zs3.. kz zs3 lacks in vocals though


----------



## vladstef (Mar 14, 2018)

Holypal said:


> ... ZS10 ... similar price as ZS6.



This + no tubing/damping -> Mount Everest incoming. Maybe a couple of them.


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> This + no tubing/damping -> Mount Everest incoming. Maybe a couple of them.



Depends on how they tune the crossover.

My guess is the DD will be sub bass and bass, (2) of the BAs will be dedicated to midrange, and the other (2) BAs will be for treble.

We'll know soon enough.


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> Depends on how they tune the crossover.
> 
> My guess is the DD will be sub bass and bass, (2) of the BAs will be dedicated to midrange, and the other (2) BAs will be for treble.
> 
> We'll know soon enough.



I second this. I think they will use 2 of the BAs used in ZS6 with higher impedance just to keep them in check. That would be the first logical step. Pricing is very concerning though, it will be BY FAR the cheapest 4BA IEM. The least expensive one with 4 BAs and by coincidence 1DD as well is Rhythmos SD7 (140$+). There are also some DIY builds mostly in SE846 shells which pretty much all suck as far as I've seen (they are also 100$+).


----------



## nkramer

Slater said:


> Depends on how they tune the crossover.
> 
> My guess is the DD will be sub bass and bass, (2) of the BAs will be dedicated to midrange, and the other (2) BAs will be for treble.
> 
> We'll know soon enough.



..... now that's just wishful thinking....

i'd love for the dynamic's role to be solely support for the bottom end, but i've yet to see a hybrid set up this way. (even though it's the way it should be...)

you and i both know.... it will be a full range dynamic, with sprinkled BAs in certain areas. lets hope they prove me wrong.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Depends on how they tune the crossover.
> 
> My guess is the DD will be sub bass and bass, (2) of the BAs will be dedicated to midrange, and the other (2) BAs will be for treble.
> 
> We'll know soon enough.



I'd bet you or close but I'd call it 

DD = Low freq
1 BA =  Bass / Lower Mid
1 BA = Mid
1 BA = High
1 BA = Ultra High

I say that because KZ has paired the 2 BA High/Ultra High on several occasions before and I don't see them moving away from that part of the arrangement.


----------



## Slater (Mar 14, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> 1 BA =  Bass / Lower Mid



This is where the issue lies, especially if they use the 30095 shown in the promotional ZS10 video. The 30095 is not really effective at bass frequencies.

They do make specialized bass BA drivers - Knowles makes a dual BA for sub bass/bass that is used in some multi-BA (only) IEMs. Magaosi K5 is one such example.

But KZ hasn’t used anything like that in the past. Nothing is to say they won’t use one in the future. But dynamic drivers are cheap and effective for the purposes of sub bass (and even filling in the full range), which is why every KZ has always had at least 1 dynamic driver in every hybrid they’ve ever produced (at least through the end of 2018).


----------



## vladstef (Mar 14, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I'd bet you or close but I'd call it
> 
> DD = Low freq
> 1 BA =  Bass / Lower Mid
> ...



I think they pretty much just used 2 of the 30095s in ZS5v2 and ZS6. ZS5v1 had 2 different BAs (one larger for midrange/treble transition that had very little impact overall between 6mm DD and other treble BA). I will be very surprised if they actually did this 5 way crossover, that is quite advanced even for established totl CIEM makers (but they are trying to nail it perfectly, something that KZ doesn't have to attempt). It's even more realistic to use 4 of the same treble BAs which are just playing quietly so that they have more headroom before they start squeaking like BAs do when pushed hard, and we do know that their DDs are all full range drivers and could cover mid range and probably have done in the past.

The most realistic thing though is 2x2 config for mid range and treble with DD covering bass. Simple enough and will probably revolutionize KZ's overlooked mid range in the past.


----------



## Wiljen (Mar 15, 2018)

Slater said:


> This is where the issue lies, especially if they use the 30095 shown in the promotional ZS10 video. The 30095 is not really effective at bass frequencies.
> 
> They do make specialized bass BA drivers - Knowles makes a dual BA for sub bass/bass that is used in some multi-BA (only) IEMs. Magaosi K5 is one such example.
> 
> But KZ hasn’t used anything like that in the past. Nothing is to say they won’t use one in the future. But dynamic drivers are cheap and effective for that purpose, which is why every KZ has always had at least 1 dynamic driver in every hybrid they’ve ever produced (at least through the end of 2018).



Either way, as soon as they hit the shelf I'll have an order in for one to try out.


----------



## bsoplinger

This is completely off topic but its one of the busier threads I follow and there are a few folks who seem to know their way around the forums. 

All this talk about quality music reproduction devices, from IEMs to DAPs to players, etc. All hardware. But what about software? Granted, here and other threads, you can get YouTube links but often to less than high quality sound versions of things. Is there a place here for questions like below. Hopefully someone can point out threads here or another forum. I did look into finding a just cause I'm ready to retire doesn't mean that I can't still love rock forum but didn't find anything 

_The Electric Light Orchestra before they'd gotten popular played a somewhat different style of music more in line with their name. I remember an album whose title I remember as the night the lights went out in (insert city name here, I don't remember perhaps LA) that has a lot of the typical ELO sound but way more of a classical style and instruments in it. Very reminiscent of other 70's classic orchestra and rock group combinations like the Moody Blues and LSO but done on a smaller scale. Think more chamber music and a few instruments along with the rock ones versus a 100 piece full orchestra. Can anyone help me find what I'm remembering? _


----------



## nkramer

bsoplinger, you can do a general web search, to find what album a song was on.

results to looks for….
- discography on wikipedia
- discogs
you could also search in spotify (it’s an app)

from there, it’s just finding that release to purchase.

but to answer your question of the ELO release…. it was an album.

 
The Night The Lights Went On (In Long Beach) 1974

tracks:
Daybreaker
Showdown
Daytripper
Medley:
In The Hall Of The Mountain King
Great Balls Of Fire
Roll Over Beethoven
Recorded live at the Long Beach Auditorium on the evening of May 12, 1974. 

https://www.discogs.com/Electric-Li...e-Light-Went-On-In-Long-Beach/release/2167711
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_the_Light_Went_On_in_Long_Beach

available on amazon: http://a.co/0p4Blo3
HDtracks has some ELO releases, but not that one.


----------



## nkramer

also, i just recently ran across this site "the concert database" (pf-db.com) which is an indispensable tool for filling in the blanks on various ROIO's.
they have a couple concerts listed from '73 - '78 for ELO

(...i'm also a HUGE fan of the late 60's -> early 70's rock)


----------



## CoiL

bsoplinger said:


> All this talk about quality music reproduction devices, from IEMs to DAPs to players, etc. All hardware. *But what about software?* Granted, here and other threads, you can get YouTube links but often to less than high quality sound versions of things. Is there a place here for questions like below.


Yeah, most ppl don`t even think about software (and its processing settings) of their DAPs. There is so much going on with firmware - different file format decodecs etc. That`s why is like modified firmware with my DX50 - only FLAC codec is being used, no internal software "EQ settings", customizeable hardware processing capabilities etc. 
You may have great harware player but software can degrade its quality noticeably with all those multifunctional requirements ppl need.


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> Yeah, most ppl don`t even think about software (and its processing settings) of their DAPs. There is so much going on with firmware - different file format decodecs etc. That`s why is like modified firmware with my DX50 - only FLAC codec is being used, no internal software "EQ settings", customizeable hardware processing capabilities etc.
> You may have great harware player but software can degrade its quality noticeably with all those multifunctional requirements ppl need.


I don't think what you're talking about isn't valid. In fact the concept of getting beyond the basic gets the bits of the SD card and how does one select those versus others, all the stuff firmware does and moving into the realm of handling those bits specifically for a particular purpose is indeed almost never talked about here. 

Unfortunately, what I meant about software was the music, in particular, recordings of music. No talks about recording methodology used. Nothing about obscure music styles that most people are unaware of yet have wonderful sound. Which directly segued into my question of how to track down a particular old album but also how to find music in general also.


----------



## CoiL

Sorry, understood Your post little differently  
About finding artist or album - best place would be "what are You listening atm" thread I quess.


----------



## nkramer

just general music discovery....?
- pandora
- last.fm
- A list of online Music Discovery tools (reddit)

i've discovered a handful of really good artists by looking up songs i've heard on shows or movies....


----------



## nkramer

here's one for you.... obscure, sure.... not you cup of tea, possibly... but you're looking for discovery, right?

Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (wikipedia) (spotify)


----------



## TLDRonin

How well do the ZSRs isolate? 


I'm itching to pick up the translucent green. Don't have any earphone headphones with huge soundstage, nor anything that isolates amazingly


----------



## fredhubbard2

nkramer said:


> here's one for you.... obscure, sure.... not you cup of tea, possibly... but you're looking for discovery, right?
> 
> Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (wikipedia) (spotify)



amazing piece of music ... like some sort of acoustic techno


----------



## nkramer

fredhubbard2 said:


> amazing piece of music ... like some sort of acoustic techno



.... that was released in 1978


----------



## B9Scrambler

nkramer said:


> .... that was released in 1978



Is that a bad thing?


----------



## nkramer

B9Scrambler said:


> Is that a bad thing?


no, it's a good thing, ...ahead of it's time.


----------



## durwood

Holypal said:


> I saw a picture of real ZS10. It will be released this month, at similar price as ZS6.



Anyone else notice at least 2 of the BA's are inside the housing and not the nozzle similar to the ZS5v1?


----------



## Slater (Mar 15, 2018)

durwood said:


> Anyone else notice at least 2 of the BA's are inside the housing and not the nozzle similar to the ZS5v1?



According to the video and he exploded diagram, all 4 BAs are all grouped together in a 2x2 square, and the whole 2x2 square is down inside of the body.






So yeah, I agree; no BAs are in the nozzle (ie directly under the nozzle screen like the ZST, ZSR, ZS5, and ZS6.


----------



## vladstef

durwood said:


> Anyone else notice at least 2 of the BA's are inside the housing and not the nozzle similar to the ZS5v1?





Slater said:


> According to the video and he exploded diagram, all 4 BAs are all grouped together in a 2x2 square, and the whole 2x2 square is inside the body.
> 
> So yeah, I agree; no BAs are in the nozzle (ie directly under the nozzle screen like the ZST, ZSR, ZS5, and ZS6.



Incoming complaints about this and then KZ moves all 4 BAs in the nozzle as a response...


----------



## C2thew

vladstef said:


> Incoming complaints about this and then KZ moves all 4 BAs in the nozzle as a response...



It just means that you're going to need a longer needle to reach the recessed BA drivers for modding with foam/gauze tape/tea bag paper.  Personally i think that this is an appropriate move for where the drivers should be, however time will tell once the ZS10's hit the hands of the consumers.  If the launch price is around the ZS6's price i'll probably jump on board.  I just hope that it isn't just more of the same drivers just augmenting the treble spikes/sibilance issues that seem to plague the ZS6/ZS5's without proper modding.


----------



## Slater (Mar 15, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Incoming complaints about this and then KZ moves all 4 BAs in the nozzle as a response...



Haha, ain’t that the truth.

Something else to keep in mind as multi-BA IEMs become more and more common, is that it gets harder if not near impossible to detect when 1 or more BAs is either DOA, miswired out of phase, or otherwise not working in some way. This is especially true when there’s a full range dynamic driver backing them up.

I mean, how many of us would really know that 1 of the 2 BAs in the ZS6 isn’t even working (was never connected from the factory, got fried out from aggressive burn-in, etc), much less 1 of the 4 in the ZSR.


----------



## oyobass

vladstef said:


> Incoming complaints about this and then KZ moves all 4 BAs in the nozzle as a response...


Hopefully KZ learned that lesson on the ZS5... to never do that again.


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 15, 2018)

got the kz ate today ... and they are freaking good best kz so far .. sound signature is amazing... my favourite kz so far... its even better kz edr1 kz zs6 and kz es3 ... cant believe they are soo cheap ... they provide very natural sound... and nice mids... cant believe I payed so cheap... kz ate is a nice little gem .. this gem needs be more known here


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> got the kz ate today ... and they are freaking good best kz so far .. sound signature is amazing... my favourite kz so far... its even better kz edr1 kz zs6 and kz es3 ... cant believe they are soo cheap ... they provide very natural sound... and nice mids... can believe I payed so cheap... kz ate is a nice little gem .. this gem needs be more known here



Yeah, it's strength is the natural sound for sure (and the nice midrange as you mentioned). I haven't heard any other KZs quite like it. The ATE-S and ATR are not the same (although I undrstand that the newest version of the ATR shares the same driver).

The ATE is also surpringly comfortable to wear as well (although a lot of people dislike the weighted 'beads', they actually work surpringly well).

The ATE really shines if you not only use wide bore tips (ie turbo/whirlwind), but that you push the tip down all the way to the bottom, like this:



There are also (more advanced) mods you can do to the ATE that make them just epic sounding.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> The ATE really shines if you not only use wide bore tips (ie turbo/whirlwind), but that you push the tip down all the way to the bottom, like this:



Funny, but that's exactly how i use my ATR, but using a sony tips instead


----------



## Wiljen

oyobass said:


> Amazon has it here for $23.95. If you order a set of eartips or whatever to get the order over $25, it ships for free, (at least in the US). Amazon free shipping is just a little faster than Gearbest paid shipping, lol.



Parts express has it on sale this week  $16.25

https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...-for-tablets-iphone-ipad-and-android--390-810


----------



## Tyler Durden

Can anyone help?  I recall a thread that was full of discount codes and offers for KZ headphones but I can't find it now. 
Thanks in advance


----------



## TheVortex

Tyler Durden said:


> Can anyone help?  I recall a thread that was full of discount codes and offers for KZ headphones but I can't find it now.
> Thanks in advance



I think you mean this thread?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2018-3-15-2018-3-20-earphones-promo-page.832367/page-94


----------



## oyobass

Wiljen said:


> Parts express has it on sale this week  $16.25
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...-for-tablets-iphone-ipad-and-android--390-810


Thanks, I might just have to get one.


----------



## bsoplinger

Wiljen said:


> Parts express has it on sale this week  $16.25
> 
> https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...-for-tablets-iphone-ipad-and-android--390-810


Unless you're buying enough to get to $100 and their free shipping, the $6.95 shipping fee gets it very close to the Amazon price which has free prime shipping. Worth considering if that applies to you where to purchase.


----------



## Wiljen

bsoplinger said:


> Unless you're buying enough to get to $100 and their free shipping, the $6.95 shipping fee gets it very close to the Amazon price which has free prime shipping. Worth considering if that applies to you where to purchase.



I don't do prime so didn't look at that.


----------



## Slater (Mar 15, 2018)

oyobass said:


> Thanks, I might just have to get one.



Go for it - that's a great price.

I can help you guys with questions and whatnot. Also, there's a great thread that covers everything and then some: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-fr-measurement-database-339-iems-measured.830062/



bsoplinger said:


> Unless you're buying enough to get to $100 and their free shipping, the $6.95 shipping fee gets it very close to the Amazon price which has free prime shipping. Worth considering if that applies to you where to purchase.



Oh, I didn't realize that 

You could always buy enough extras to get the free shipping, and resell the rest on ebay to make a quick profit (plus get your original one for "free" from the profits of the others).


----------



## oyobass

bsoplinger said:


> Unless you're buying enough to get to $100 and their free shipping, the $6.95 shipping fee gets it very close to the Amazon price which has free prime shipping. Worth considering if that applies to you where to purchase.


I just saw that. Maybe another day...


----------



## nadezhda 6004

zazaboy said:


> kz zs3 lacks in vocals though


Just in vocals? IMO in everything.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, i just got a pair of ZST's, and i noticed that the grill on one side is kinda unbalanced, on one end it it's like, coming off, and on the other end is going inside, the grill on the other bud also has a little bit of glue on the outside, should i return them?

Thanks


----------



## Infected Mushroom

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i just got a pair of ZST's, and i noticed that the grill on one side is kinda unbalanced, on one end it it's like, coming off, and on the other end is going inside, the grill on the other bud also has a little bit of glue on the outside, should i return them?
> 
> Thanks



My pair was the same, I gently peeled the grills off using a needle and then reapplied them properly. 

If you choose to do that, and especially if the sibilance bothers you, you can hit 2 birds with one stone and try Slater's mod. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## DSebastiao

Infected Mushroom said:


> My pair was the same, I gently peeled the grills off using a needle and then reapplied them properly.
> 
> If you choose to do that, and especially if the sibilance bothers you, you can hit 2 birds with one stone and try Slater's mod.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650



I'll need more time with them to see if sibilance is a problem, for now, it doesn't bother me.

One thing tho, after taking them out, how do you secure the grill again?


----------



## ricemanhk

White ZSR in the house!  Mine does have the small lip on the nozzle, but with the fatter nozzle I don't think the tips will fall off anytime soon...one of my chief complaints about my ZS5 (i've lost too many tips to count)

Much more comfortable for me than my ZS5v1 (mine is even the 3 button remote version...)
I echo others impressions, ZSR has richer bass and warmer sound, while ZS5 is more analytical.  Indeed ZSR feels like a vastly improved ZS3 and I'm liking it alot.  Isolation also better with ZSR vs ZS5, which may be contributing to the bass as well.  I'm very much looking forward to ZS10 based on what they've achieved with ZSR.

BTW the taobao seller swapped me the nicer 8 wire upgrade silver cable (instead of the 4 wire one which I still have from my ZST anyway), very very nice...will try it once I take out the friggin memory wire.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 16, 2018)

After a few days of using the KZ ZS6...initially highly impressed by design and built. Treble didn't seem to bother me that much. In comparison, the ZSR sounded veiled and less accurate. Therefore, the technical winner is the ZS6.

I then tried to muffle the treble of the ZS6 with the Tennmak Whirlwind tips, which somewhat works. BUT: nozzle and the relatively short Tennmak tips combined don't let me push the earpieces deep enough into my ears without the housings pushing uncomfortably against my ears.

Yesterday, I did the no-hype test: sitting on a city bus after too many glasses of wine, these ZS6 sounded like a chainsaw. Absolutely awful.

For the rest of the evening, I reverted to the super best Sony MH1C ($80 list; $22 eBay), appreciated by the audiophiles on a website (maintained by some audio friends) that cannot be mentioned here (would be edited out by moderator).

This was pleasant and safe. Not sure how this struggle will continue.


----------



## zazaboy

Otto Motor said:


> After a few days of using the KZ ZS6...initially highly impressed by design and built. Treble didn't seem to bother me that much. In comparison, the ZSR sounded veiled and less accurate. Therefore, the technical winner is the ZS6.
> 
> I then tried to muffle the treble of the ZS6 with the Tennmak Whirlwind tips, which somewhat works. BUT: nozzle and the relatively short Tennmak tips combined don't let me push the earpieces deep enough into my ears without the housings pushing uncomfortably against my ears.
> 
> ...



u need to try kz ate its better then kz zs6... best mids imho best kz iem so far


----------



## Podster (Mar 16, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> And if anyone is interested...Auvio wide-bore ear tips are on sale @ Radio Shack - Set of 2 tips (4 pieces) for $1 USD. Search for "replacement tips"



THX again for the heads up @rayliam80 , my Rad Shack had the three size kits for $1.50! Anyone out there that might use smalls just PM an address and I'll drop you a pair in an envelope






OK @zazaboy , you re entitled to your opinion on those ATE but we all hear them differently you know I'm still a ZS6 man then ZST and ZS5V1, don't get me wrong the original ATE had/has some killer mids and nice spaciousness too, old skool KZ I'm an ED9 fan forever followed by my ZN1 Mini's.

@ricemanhk , I bet those White ones are nice looking My black ZSR's came in a couple days ago. Awesome looking, awesome fit/seal but just too bass forward for my taste. I'll have to EQ them back a little before I wear them with any consistency


----------



## nkramer

you still have a radio shack? all the ones around me have closed. ....jelly


----------



## oyobass

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i just got a pair of ZST's, and i noticed that the grill on one side is kinda unbalanced, on one end it it's like, coming off, and on the other end is going inside, the grill on the other bud also has a little bit of glue on the outside, should i return them?
> 
> Thanks





nkramer said:


> you still have a radio shack? all the ones around me have closed. ....jelly


Ahh, the days when you could just run to the corner Radio Shack and buy substandard switches or capacitors in person... I miss 'em too.


----------



## cottonbud (Mar 17, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> After a few days of using the KZ ZS6...initially highly impressed by design and built. Treble didn't seem to bother me that much. In comparison, the ZSR sounded veiled and less accurate. Therefore, the technical winner is the ZS6.
> 
> I then tried to muffle the treble of the ZS6 with the Tennmak Whirlwind tips, which somewhat works. BUT: nozzle and the relatively short Tennmak tips combined don't let me push the earpieces deep enough into my ears without the housings pushing uncomfortably against my ears.
> 
> ...


If you don't like ZS6 anyway, you could try one trick, it worked for me. Burn in your ZS6 for 5-10 hours at loud volume, maybe with amp. (But if you kill IEM with full power of amp for 300Ω cans, it's your fault, not mine. Set loudness within reason.)
I saw this advice in ZS6 review (link with time code), some people in comments says it's helped for them smoothening harsh treble. I also removed protection grill and using foam ear tips, you can try too.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 16, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> After a few days of using the KZ ZS6...initially highly impressed by design and built. Treble didn't seem to bother me that much. In comparison, the ZSR sounded veiled and less accurate. Therefore, the technical winner is the ZS6.
> 
> I then tried to muffle the treble of the ZS6 with the Tennmak Whirlwind tips, which somewhat works. BUT: nozzle and the relatively short Tennmak tips combined don't let me push the earpieces deep enough into my ears without the housings pushing uncomfortably against my ears.
> 
> ...



I definitely don't recommend bright-leaning IEMs for commuting purposes. 
The bass will simply disappear 
.......which forces you to increase the volume 
.......which will only increase the intensity of the BA's (regarding hybrids & BA IEMs.
.......which will only damage your hearing.  

It is best to choose a warm-leaning and bass-forward IEM when it comes to commuting otherwise the bass gets lost due to the low frequency hum of bus engines and truck engines.

For commuting I'd go with one of the following:
ATE
ATR
EDR1
ZSR (maybe)
ED8 
ED3 "Acme"
DZAT DF-10
BossHiFi S1 (maybe)
ZS3 (unmodified)
ES3 (perhaps)

Use the analytical IEMs at home or in a QUIET office and save your hearing.

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> After a few days of using the KZ ZS6...initially highly impressed by design and built. Treble didn't seem to bother me that much. In comparison, the ZSR sounded veiled and less accurate. Therefore, the technical winner is the ZS6.
> 
> I then tried to muffle the treble of the ZS6 with the Tennmak Whirlwind tips, which somewhat works. BUT: nozzle and the relatively short Tennmak tips combined don't let me push the earpieces deep enough into my ears without the housings pushing uncomfortably against my ears.
> 
> Yesterday, I did the no-hype test: sitting on a city bus after too many glasses of wine, these ZS6 sounded like a chainsaw. Absolutely awful.



Try narrowing the nozzle (not wide bores).

You can narrow it with a super narrow eartip (even more narrow than the Starlines), the washer mod, a strip of silicone, a piece of heat shrink tubing, a cut off silicone eartip core (basically a glorified piece of silicone tubing), etc.

Like these examples:

Heat shrink tubing method:




Silicone strip/cut off core method:




Washer mod method:


----------



## Infected Mushroom

DSebastiao said:


> I'll need more time with them to see if sibilance is a problem, for now, it doesn't bother me.
> 
> One thing tho, after taking them out, how do you secure the grill again?



I don't know how, maybe there's some glue residue or it's just due to friction, but right now they are slightly into the nozzle with only the edges sticking out slightly if you put your finger on top. 
What I did was place them as centered as I could and push them with my finger and then with the "butt" of a drawing pencil (the ones with the slightly rounded "butt"). I've taken them off and on at least 3-4 times and they've never fallen out even though I run with them.

That reminds me, should I be worried about sweat damaging any of the drivers inside? For the last 3 years I've been using the Panasonic RP-HJE125, but they survived a whole day underwater so I've never thought about that before.


----------



## TLDRonin

cottonbud said:


> If you don't like ZS6 anyway, you could try one trick, it worked for me. Burn in your ZS6 for 5-10 hours at loud volume, maybe with amp. (But if you kill IEM with full power of amp for 300Ω cans, it's your fault, not mine. Set loudness within reason.)
> I saw this advice in ZS6 review (link with time code), some people in comments says it's helped for them smoothening harsh treble. I also removed protection grill and using foam ear tips, you can try too.


Not related to the sound of the ZS6, but he's using foam tips and putting them into his ear without rolling them up...


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, where do you get your KZ's?


----------



## oyobass

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, where do you get your KZ's?


Amazon if I "have" to get them soon. GearBest if I want a good deal and can wait.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Gearbest


----------



## bsoplinger (Mar 16, 2018)

In general I go to aliexpress.com for Chi-Fi. However Gearbest has a special relationship with KZ and gets releases before other places. They also have great deals after about a month of the initial release. There is a thread here that regularly lists Gearbest deals and there are usually a few KZ deals in them. You'll need to try AliExpress for older models.

Edit: after seeing @Slater 's post below I should add that sometimes you can find items at Amazon for the same or even less than a Chinese website so if you are located where Amazon is an option always check there.


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, where do you get your KZ's?



I've gotten them from Gearbest, Aliexpress, Amazon, ebay, dhgate, fasttech, and banggood.

If I'm in no rush (98% of the time), I just buy it where it's available for the best price (including any coupons, flash sales, etc).


----------



## Adide

Infected Mushroom said:


> For the last 3 years I've been using the Panasonic RP-HJE125, but they survived a whole day underwater so I've never thought about that before.



Roger that Aquaman. Batman?


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Sony MH1C ($80 list; $22 eBay), appreciated by the audiophiles on a website



I got the MH1C recently on ebay for £15.  I was very surprised by how good they sound.  Too bad about the horrible awkward cable.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I got the MH1C recently on ebay for £15.  I was very surprised by how good they sound.  Too bad about the horrible awkward cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


>



It is not the flatness of the cable that makes it horrible.  It is made wrong.  The two parts above the Y split are completely different lengths.  I guess you would not really call it a  Y split because it is not.  It is a weird mutant thing that wants to strangle me... not comfy at all.  Sounds perfect though.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> It is not the flatness of the cable that makes it horrible.  It is made wrong.  The two parts above the Y split are completely different lengths.  I guess you would not really call it a  Y split because it is not.  It is a weird mutant thing that wants to strangle me... not comfy at all.  Sounds perfect though.



it's called J cord. the right side (the longer one) is supposed to go behind the neck. it's weird at first, but it turns out more secure than the Y, although a bit a hassle to put on. 
i think it's a throwback to the old time when people wear their walkmans on their belt.


----------



## chickenmoon

J cable is great for listening outdoors IMO, when you need remove your  buds from your ears they neatly stay on your shoulders instead of having to keep em in your hands or toss them in your pocket. I wish there were more J cable options these days.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> it's called J cord. the right side (the longer one) is supposed to go behind the neck. it's weird at first, but it turns out more secure than the Y, although a bit a hassle to put on.
> i think it's a throwback to the old time when people wear their walkmans on their belt.



Yeah, my husband showed me how but it is really hard to do with long hair.  Plus I really do think it is designed wrong because it has a really fat mic that ends up kind of hanging in the air near your face.  It really is quite horrible no matter what you do with it.  

I did not know it had a J cable when I ordered it.  I avoid cables with mics when possible but I do have a few with mics. none as huge and in the way as this one.  I don't think it can be recabled.

The giant mic:


----------



## TLDRonin

mbwilson111 said:


> I got the MH1C recently on ebay for £15.  I was very surprised by how good they sound.  Too bad about the horrible awkward cable.


Don't want to sidetrack too much, but can you give some more impressions on it?


I've been looking to get a new dzat df-10 since my old one was defective (got a refund), but the MH1C looks pretty good


----------



## mbwilson111

TLDRonin said:


> Don't want to sidetrack too much, but can you give some more impressions on it?
> 
> 
> I've been looking to get a new dzat df-10 since my old one was defective (got a refund), but the MH1C looks pretty good



I have not had it very long and have only listened to it a few times... partly because of the cable and partly because I have too many choices.  There are other members who can tell you much more.


----------



## DSebastiao

oyobass said:


> Amazon if I "have" to get them soon. GearBest if I want a good deal and can wait.





Cruelhand Luke said:


> Gearbest





bsoplinger said:


> In general I go to aliexpress.com for Chi-Fi. However Gearbest has a special relationship with KZ and gets releases before other places. They also have great deals after about a month of the initial release. There is a thread here that regularly lists Gearbest deals and there are usually a few KZ deals in them. You'll need to try AliExpress for older models.
> 
> Edit: after seeing @Slater 's post below I should add that sometimes you can find items at Amazon for the same or even less than a Chinese website so if you are located where Amazon is an option always check there.





Slater said:


> I've gotten them from Gearbest, Aliexpress, Amazon, ebay, dhgate, fasttech, and banggood.
> 
> If I'm in no rush (98% of the time), I just buy it where it's available for the best price (including any coupons, flash sales, etc).



Thank you all for answering, i try to get them from amazon (fulfilled by amazon), to get that great warranty, but now i'm thinking of getting the ZSR and don't know where to get, probably will be on GearBest since they have paypal.


----------



## chinmie

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't think it can be recabled



I've seen many of recabled MH1C going around in my local forum, so, it can definitely be done


----------



## oyobass

DSebastiao said:


> Thank you all for answering, i try to get them from amazon (fulfilled by amazon), to get that great warranty, but now i'm thinking of getting the ZSR and don't know where to get, probably will be on GearBest since they have paypal.


GearBest is my only choice in Chinese vendors precisely because they take PayPal. Some vendors on Ali Express take it too, but it's not consistent site-wide.


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> I've seen many of recabled MH1C going around in my local forum, so, it can definitely be done



I would love to see some pictures but it might be too off topic.

I do have three KZ iems


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> Try narrowing the nozzle (not wide bores).
> 
> You can narrow it with a super narrow eartip (even more narrow than the Starlines), the washer mod, a strip of silicone, a piece of heat shrink tubing, a cut off silicone eartip core (basically a glorified piece of silicone tubing), etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks, the super narrow eartips could be the ones that came with the KZ ZS3. Heat shrink or washers may be too hard to get a hold of. I also have micropore tape. The art is too mod it so that only the treble is tamed.

On that note, my friend dropped off a modded pair of Blitzwolf ES1 this evening. Have to read in detail how it was done but they sound fabulous. The mod tamed both the bass and treble, it effectively removed the v-shape towards neutral. Blue tackers and bassheads may be appalled.


----------



## bsoplinger

chinmie said:


> … i think it's a throwback to the old time when people wear their walkmans on their belt.


Sure was whippersnapper. Back then we had to walk barefoot… through the snow… 10 miles… uphill each way… just to get to the local record store just to buy the latest cassingle


----------



## bsoplinger

DSebastiao said:


> Thank you all for answering, i try to get them from amazon (fulfilled by amazon), to get that great warranty, but now i'm thinking of getting the ZSR and don't know where to get, probably will be on GearBest since they have paypal.


Just a note since you seem to be new in ordering from Chinese websites. Most including Gearbest have a free shipping option. If you look through the thread you'll see all sorts of humorous comments like their purchase is being swum to them because those really inexpensive shipping choices can take 8 weeks or even more for the item to get to you. E-packet is the best option in the cost versus time equation assuming you are in the USA. For something a few ounces like a pair of inexpensive earphones it should be under $5. Gearbest did then didn't offer e-packet and I've not ordered from them this year so I don't know the current availability. They generally have free, a cheap airmail option, I think it was priority line which was still cheap but more expensive than the airmail and then an expensive choice by what in the USA is overnight shippers like DHL, FedEx, etc. Look for the one that lists about 14 days as the shipping time. For the probably $3 it will cost you'll get your earphones in less than 3 weeks instead of possibly more than 2 months.


----------



## Slater (Mar 17, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Sure was whippersnapper. Back then we had to walk barefoot… through the snow… 10 miles… uphill each way… just to get to the local record store just to buy the latest cassingle



Ah, those were the days. I still remember when I bought my Thriller cassette the day it went on sale at Peaches. I wore that tape out in my Walkman from playing it so much. At least until one tragic day when the Walkman ate it like a spaghetti dinner


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> Ah, those were the days. I still remember when I bought my Thriller cassette the day it went on sale at Peaches. I wore that bad boy out in my Walkman, until one day when the Walkman ate it like a spaghetti dinner



the horror of casette tape jam


----------



## nkramer

Slater said:


> until one day when the Walkman ate it like a spaghetti dinner



... yeah, little known fact..... walkmans are italian, not chinese.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 17, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I definitely don't recommend bright-leaning IEMs for commuting purposes.
> The bass will simply disappear
> .......which forces you to increase the volume
> .......which will only increase the intensity of the BA's (regarding hybrids & BA IEMs.
> ...


Yeah, I have used many of them on my commute. Definitely ATR/ATE and ZSR/ES4/ZST (ZST and ATE worked well on intercontinental flights), EDR1/DZAT DF10 may not stay in when moving around....I like this kind in bed as they can be easily removed when going to sleep.  Anything that seals well with a strongish bass and decent punch and a good hold (monitor shape with memory wire). We also had the punchy MEMT X5 here for gym use. Even the Sony MH1C work well as they have a very good isolation...if you can handle the cable.

Same selection works for listening when drunk!


----------



## rendyG

Otto Motor said:


> On that note, my friend dropped off a modded pair of Blitzwolf ES1 this evening. Have to read in detail how it was done but they sound fabulous. The mod tamed both the bass and treble, it effectively removed the v-shape towards neutral. Blue tackers and bassheads may be appalled.



Good work, how did he tamed just the treble? With some rubber in the tip as Slater presented? When I try to dampen it on a ear side, the 3khz drops, but 5khz stays higher. The 12khz is ok, for me 5khz is the most apparent in some songs.


----------



## oyobass

chinmie said:


> the horror of casette tape jam


And tightening up the spools with a pencil...


----------



## groucho69

bsoplinger said:


> Sure was whippersnapper. Back then we had to walk barefoot… through the snow… 10 miles… uphill each way… just to get to the local record store just to buy the latest cassingle



Only 10 miles. Man you were lucky!


----------



## Slater (Mar 17, 2018)

Radek Jandl said:


> Good work, how did he tamed just the treble? With some rubber in the tip as Slater presented? When I try to dampen it on a ear side, the 3khz drops, but 5khz stays higher. The 12khz is ok, for me 5khz is the most apparent in some songs.



There’s a multi-step mod procedure that must be carefully followed to get the BlitzWolf to be like his graph.

You have to make very specific size changes to both the front and the rear vents, remove the nozzle screen to then remove the foam plug inside of the the nozzle, and add a sheet of silicone inside the nozzle (of a specific thickness) cut to a very specific size. 

Being off a fraction of a mm on any of the steps will not produce the desired results. So I’d consider it a pretty advanced mod for the average Joe.

I didn’t even have all of the exact materials required - I had to order some items before I attempted the mods on my BlitzWolf.


----------



## DSebastiao

oyobass said:


> GearBest is my only choice in Chinese vendors precisely because they take PayPal. Some vendors on Ali Express take it too, but it's not consistent site-wide.





bsoplinger said:


> Just a note since you seem to be new in ordering from Chinese websites. Most including Gearbest have a free shipping option. If you look through the thread you'll see all sorts of humorous comments like their purchase is being swum to them because those really inexpensive shipping choices can take 8 weeks or even more for the item to get to you. E-packet is the best option in the cost versus time equation assuming you are in the USA. For something a few ounces like a pair of inexpensive earphones it should be under $5. Gearbest did then didn't offer e-packet and I've not ordered from them this year so I don't know the current availability. They generally have free, a cheap airmail option, I think it was priority line which was still cheap but more expensive than the airmail and then an expensive choice by what in the USA is overnight shippers like DHL, FedEx, etc. Look for the one that lists about 14 days as the shipping time. For the probably $3 it will cost you'll get your earphones in less than 3 weeks instead of possibly more than 2 months.



Thanks, i'm in europe, i ordered my ZST's from an european warehouse, and 2 cases from china, and yeah that shipping method is great, the cases arrived very quickly, the problem that i have right now is that i ordered a silver cable from aliexpress, and one of the pings is significantly shorter than the others, which renders the cable unusable, and now i'm in this back and forth with them, they want to send me another cable but they say they'll take 3-5 days to send it, i don't know what they'll do that cable but i think i'lll give it a pass, they have almost 2k cables to sell, and they want to send me one that can take 5 days to ship? Damn.

Also, how's the warraty in both gearbest and aliexpress?


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 17, 2018)

*TAMING THE TREBLE OF THE KZ ZS6:*

1. Following Slater's advise, I plugged some silicone strips from cut-up rubber tips down the tip. Hmm...tames treble but also slows bass down. The jury is still out on this one.

2. Stuffed some cut-up foam covers from the Monk Plus down the tip...created a v-shaped earphone.

3. Hifi Chris uses a 75 ohm impedance source to tame the treble and make the. I ordered an adapter:
https://goo.gl/EHM2th

4. Hifi Chris recommends an external inline volume control, which is effectively a sliding-scale impedance adapter.
https://goo.gl/L7q1FC


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 17, 2018)

if you want to reduce the treble.. u need to use triple flange tips or double flange tips... for me it works and u can find a ton of them on gearbest and aliexpress.. my kz zs6 is fine now.... but still dont have much bass though thats because of the fit issue.. they are too big for me.. bad design imho

75 ohm impedance source will lower the max volume output on smartphone I think.. but I dont know didnt tried


----------



## groucho69

Otto Motor said:


> *TAMING THE TREBLE OF THE KS6:*
> 
> 1. Following Slater's advise, I plugged some silicone strips from cut-up rubber tips down the tip. Hmm...tames treble but also slows bass down. The jury is still out on this one.
> 
> ...



Why 75 Ω? Why not the 150 or 200 Ω?


----------



## jeromeaparis

DSebastiao said:


> they want to send me another cable but they say they'll take 3-5 days to send it, i don't know what they'll do that cable but i think i'lll give it a pass, they have almost 2k cables to sell, and they want to send me one that can take 5 days to ship? Damn.
> 
> Also, how's the warraty in both gearbest and aliexpress?



Hi, If they offer to send to you another replacement cable for free, you should accept, whatever the delivery time.

From my experience, Warranty is better with GB.


----------



## zazaboy

my kz ate is from one side broken we will see if gearbest is good in warranty... btw kz ate has some very bad build quality .. it has good sound though


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 18, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Why 75 Ω? Why not the 150 or 200 Ω?


...because it worked for Hifi Chris . You can calculate the changes in the frequency response curve with altered impedance from the impedance curve. But don't ask me how.

EDIT: This is the definition of "empirical" = "based on experience". It just works!

EDIT 2: Hifi Chris told me that 75 ohm is just eyeballing (comes form another user). 50 or 100 ohm may also work - or not.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 18, 2018)

*TAMING THE TREBLE OF THE KZ KS6 II - OR RATHER NOT:*
Just ordered this one: https://headfonics.com/2017/05/the-iematch-by-ifi-audio/

Worthwhile when you have tons of iems.

EDIT: actually, this one cannot tame the KZ ZS6's treble.


----------



## bsoplinger

I really dated myself. Good thing I didn't mention Woodstock


Slater said:


> There’s a multi-step mod procedure that must be carefully followed to get the BlitzWolf to be like his graph.
> 
> You have to make very specific size changes to both the front and the rear vents, remove the nozzle screen to then remove the foam plug inside of the the nozzle, and add a sheet of silicone inside the nozzle (of a specific thickness) cut to a very specific size.
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity what did you think of the modified BlitzWolf? As good as $1000 IEMs as the originator of the mod says?


----------



## groucho69

Otto Motor said:


> ...because it worked for Hifi Chris . You can calculate the changes in the frequency response curve with altered impedance from the impedance curve. But don't ask me how.



That is the BEST answer.


----------



## groucho69

bsoplinger said:


> I really dated myself. Good thing I didn't mention Woodstock
> 
> Out of curiosity what did you think of the modified BlitzWolf? As good as $1000 IEMs as the originator of the mod says?


----------



## Superluc (Mar 17, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *TAMING THE TREBLE OF THE KZ KS6 II:*
> Just ordered this one: https://headfonics.com/2017/05/the-iematch-by-ifi-audio/
> 
> Worthwhile when you have tons of iems.



That can't tame the highs of the ZS6. The iematch’s purpose is the opposite, because can be used for lower the output impedance of a source, for avoid distortion coming from impedance mismatch between the source and the headphone.

With the ZS6, you can lower the highs with an impedance adapter because, using on them a source with higher impedance, that affect mostly the BA’s response.

You can buy one cheaper from Penon: https://penonaudio.com/3.5mm-impedance-adapter.html

I use on them a combo foam + adapter, but the resulting highs can be still too boosted, with sibilant tracks, or the overall feeling a bit too lifeless, in others. It depends.


----------



## Otto Motor

Superluc said:


> That can't tame the highs of the ZS6. The iematch’s purpose is the opposite, because can be used for lower the output impedance of a source, for avoid distortion coming from impedance mismatch between the source and the headphone.
> 
> With the ZS6, you can lower the highs with an impedance adapter because, using on them a source with higher impedance, that affect mostly the BA’s response.
> 
> ...


I had also ordered a 75 ohm impedance adapter, but the Dunu one ($8). Yeah, the iematch has two settings, one is 1 ohm, the other is 2.5 ohm, which may be too low for the ZS6.

A reviewer writes: "...It’s basically an analog dampener in form of a short dongle that wants to improve the compatibility with sensitive headphones and your ordinary headphone output. It does this by lowering the output volume by up to 24 dB, lowering hiss and increasing dynamics..." 

I'll let you know how it works with all sorts of iems.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, is this comparison accurate? http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-vs-kz-zst-comparison/

Thanks


----------



## B9Scrambler

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, is this comparison accurate? http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-vs-kz-zst-comparison/
> 
> Thanks



Admist all the adds and Buy Here links, that was nightmare to go through... oh man. Interesting read but they open with an error. ZST isn't KZ's first dual driver model. It is their first hybrid though.


----------



## mikp

well, i had to try the kz. Ordered the ZS3 and the bluetooth cable for something like 15$. Not expecting much but mun to see how it compares to a 20$ qcy bluetooth.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Out of curiosity what did you think of the modified BlitzWolf? As good as $1000 IEMs as the originator of the mod says?



Still waiting on my micro drill bits to arrive.


----------



## chinmie

mikp said:


> well, i had to try the kz. Ordered the ZS3 and the bluetooth cable for something like 15$. Not expecting much but mun to see how it compares to a 20$ qcy bluetooth.



I like the QCYs better on their implementation: APTX support and low latency for movies. 

The KZ bluetooth latency is not good. But for listening music only it is quite good. Also more versatile in sound because you can use it with any 2pin earphones


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> OK, so I've spent some serious time working on ZS6 mods.
> 
> _Note that for all of these mods, you 1st use a sewing needle and gently pop off the stainless 'cheese grater' nozzle screen by poking the needle in 1 of the 'cheese grater' holes and lifting it right off. Carefully set them somewhere out of the way where you won't lose it. I recommend setting them on wax paper (sticky side down). It will keep the adhesive portion sticky, and won't let the adhesive get contaminated by dust or dirt while you are working. When you are done with your mods, just use tweeers to put the screen back in the center of the nozzle, and very gently push the screen down with your finger to make the adhesive stick._
> 
> ...


Tape on BA with a normal plastic tape....and cut the surrounding of it with small scissor... Very small moustache cutting sciccor.

No need to glue it...you know


----------



## dhruvmeena96

groucho69 said:


> Why 75 Ω? Why not the 150 or 200 Ω?


It will kill bass too that's why no more than 100ohms


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> At least until one tragic day when the Walkman ate it like a spaghetti dinner


Are you sure this isn't why you hate noodle cables? 

The only ones that I have with noodles are the Jay's A-Jay five and I actually like the cable. But then I figure everyone already knows I'm strange.


----------



## hiflofi

Are the cables for the ZST and ZS6 interchangeable? They're sold separately on Ali, but they have the exact same connector.


----------



## DSebastiao

So, it's confirmed to exist a v2 of the zs6 or what?



hiflofi said:


> Are the cables for the ZST and ZS6 interchangeable? They're sold separately on Ali, but they have the exact same connector.



If you look closer, the one for the ZST has an angled connector, while the one for the ZS6 is a straight connector, i heard you can change cables but it won't be a tight fit.


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> So, it's confirmed to exist a v2 of the zs6 or what?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992


----------



## Slater (Mar 18, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Are you sure this isn't why you hate noodle cables?
> 
> The only ones that I have with noodles are the Jay's A-Jay five and I actually like the cable. But then I figure everyone already knows I'm strange.



The real reason is that they are super fragile. I've never had a noodle cable last when subjected to everyday usage/movement (and that goes for ribbon cables in electronics as well). This is why the overwhelming majority of cables in the world are the round kind - from underwater communications cables to overhead power cables. It's just a stronger and more reliable design. Flat/ribbon cables were never designed for repeated movement/flexing - they were designed to remain static. If movement is required, they are only reliable when flexed in a single plane.

Flat cables do have their strengths, such as use in electronics like laptops and cell phones where space is at a premium and miniaturization is required. But that is due to more efficient use of space, NOT because of physical strength or flexibilty. They are also superior due to the physical separation of the conductors, reducing interference/interactions w/other conductors from behaviors such as friction, signal skewing, differential time delays, etc. Flat cables are also lighter vs round cables.

Each have their place. I just dont believe that place is on a headphone or earphone.


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992



Ah thanks tho, doing god's work, what is that nozzle tip that you talk about?


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Ah thanks tho, doing god's work, what is that nozzle tip that you talk about?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1933#post-14098464





P.S. Not all grey ZS6 have the lip. Some do, some don't. Also, there are reports of some non-grey ZS6 with lips. It's really a crap shoot though - you may get lucky and get one with a lip, and maybe not.


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1933#post-14098464
> 
> P.S. Not all grey ZS6 have the lip. Some do, some don't. However, at this time, NONE of the other colors have a lip. So if you have any hope of getting a lip, it will be on a grey ZS6.



Thanks again, they do go for a significantly higher price on GearBest, i want the red one's, but does that nozzle actually make a difference? I wish they still had the blue/grey ones


----------



## Selenium

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks again, they do go for a significantly higher price on GearBest, i want the red one's, but does that nozzle actually make a difference? I wish they still had the blue/grey ones



I haven't had any issue with tips coming off in my ears with the ZS6. If course I'm using the tips they come with.


----------



## zazaboy

well the nozzle is annoying from kz zs6 u cant use all tips ... the tips get stuck in the ear sometimes


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 18, 2018)

*TAMING THE TREBLE OF THE KZ KS6 III - OR RATHER NOT?*

Followed Slater's advice and narrowed the tip using the interior of another tip. Does it work? I have not dared to try it yet


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks again, they do go for a significantly higher price on GearBest, i want the red one's, but does that nozzle actually make a difference? I wish they still had the blue/grey ones



Yeah, the grey ones are much higher in cost. Why, I have no clue. There’s literally no difference in them vs the other colors (other than SOME of the grey ones having a lip).


----------



## Slater (Mar 18, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *TAMING THE TREBLE OF THE KZ KS6 III - OR RATHER NOT?*
> 
> Followed Slater's advice and narrowed the tip using the interior of another tip. Does it work? I have not dared to try it yet



I can’t take credit for that one. Our creative Russian friends came up with that mod.

Interestingly, the thing you did with the cut one is similar to one part of the BlitzWolf ES1 mod. The modders used it to tame the ES1’s treble as well. The major differences with the BlitzWolf vs the ZS6 mod is that in the BlitzWolf 1). you use 1 mm Sorbothane (cut to very specific dimensions) and 2). you install the little partially rolled-up piece down inside of the BlitzWolf nozzle underneath the nozzle screen.

I came up with the ZS6 washer mod


----------



## Slater (Mar 18, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> well the nozzle is annoying from kz zs6 u cant use all tips ... the tips get stuck in the ear sometimes



The tips fall off in the ear because there’s no lip on the ZS5 and ZS6’s nozzle.

That’s the exact reason why KZ added the lip to the ZSR and (some of) the grey ZS6s.

I do know how annoying that can be though. While I’ve never had a problem with the tip falling off the ZS5 or ZS6, it does every single time I use the MEMT X5 (even though it has a lip). It’s yet another reason why I’m not a fan of the X5.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 18, 2018)

Slater said:


> I can’t take credit for that one. Our creative Russian friends came up with that mod.
> 
> Interestingly, the thing you did with the cut one is similar to one part of the BlitzWolf ES1 mod. The modders used it to tame the ES1’s treble as well. The major differences with the BlitzWolf vs the ZS6 mod is that in the BlitzWolf 1). you use 1 mm Sorbothane (cut to very specific dimensions) and 2). you install the little partially rolled-up piece down inside of the BlitzWolf nozzle underneath the nozzle screen.
> 
> I came up with the ZS6 washer mod


Can the sorbothane mod be done on the ZS6? It all depends on the inside of the nozzle. My Blitzwolfs contain the rolled up sorbothane, as performed by "Biodegraded" for me.

Zazaboy's recommendation of triple flange tips: cleared my ears out but didn't remove any treble.


----------



## DSebastiao

Otto Motor said:


> *TAMING THE TREBLE OF THE KZ KS6 II - OR RATHER NOT:*
> Just ordered this one: https://headfonics.com/2017/05/the-iematch-by-ifi-audio/
> 
> Worthwhile when you have tons of iems.
> ...



Is this the best thing out there to eliminate hissing?


----------



## Mboom (Mar 19, 2018)

Recently received my kz zsr, and think the nozzle is too thick. I was gonna sand it down with fine grit sandpaper at desired diameter. Even with the smallest tips currently on, im not getting a good fit feels like. Also soundstage isnt as wide as my tin audio t2.

Update, tossed them. Sounded like crap and unbalanced with terrible fit. See ya.


----------



## Superluc

DSebastiao said:


> Is this the best thing out there to eliminate hissing?


The ifi Ear Buddy is cheaper, but with a bit greater output impedance (< 2.7 Ohms)

Normal adapter also work, but may change the sound, like we was saying for the ZS6.  

It's all about putting some resistors in between, but then have an impedance output that can work good with the headphone used. Obviously, that affect the power needed. If the headphone is already demanding for the source, you can't use adapters.


----------



## Slater (Mar 18, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Can the sorbothane mod be done on the ZS6? It all depends on the inside of the nozzle. My Blitzwolfs contain the rolled up sorbothane, as performed by "Biodegraded" for me.
> 
> Zazaboy's recommendation of triple flange tips: cleared my ears out but didn't remove any treble.



There’s no room down inside of the ZS6 nozzle - the BA drivers are in the way. That’s why you have to do the ZS6 mod from the outside of the nozzle (ie inside of the eartip).

The BlitzWolf is a single driver IEM, so there’s nothing blocking the inside of the nozzle. So the mod is done the ‘inside’ way.


----------



## DSebastiao

Superluc said:


> The ifi Ear Buddy is cheaper, but with a bit greater output impedance (< 2.7 Ohms)
> 
> Normal adapter also work, but may change the sound, like we was saying for the ZS6.
> 
> It's all about putting some resistors in between, but then have an impedance output that can work good with the headphone used. Obviously, that affect the power needed. If the headphone is already demanding for the source, you can't use adapters.



Looks good, but then, what's the difference between the ear buddy and the iEmatch? Does the iEmatch make the same effect plus the dynamics?


----------



## Nikostr8

after tip rolling the S-size ear tip that came with the ZST (starlines) on my ZS3 i just find the perfect combination ( for me )  of comfort. Even though i lose a bit of isolation not using the foam tips i think that its worth.

Now it *REALLY  *feels as if the ZS3 were made for my ear , it just fit perfectly.


----------



## Superluc

DSebastiao said:


> Looks good, but then, what's the difference between the ear buddy and the iEmatch? Does the iEmatch make the same effect plus the dynamics?


The dynamics thing seem to me more like advertising than else.

What counts is that:
The ear buddy damp 16dB, <2.7 impedance output. 
The iEmatch have two setting, 12/24dB, <2.5/<1 ohm

Taking down everything 24dB need a lot of power for compensation.

With a ZS6, one can also use a cheap impedance adapter for get rid of the hissing, getting also less highs, and do tips rolling for make another step in the direction wanted. For example, the foam soften, while the KZ _whirlwind _tips make then more brighter, and i feel more bass with new bee silicon tips.


----------



## DSebastiao

Superluc said:


> The dynamics thing seem to me more like advertising than else.
> 
> What counts is that:
> The ear buddy damp 16dB, <2.7 impedance output.
> ...



Hm, i see, does it still make sense while using a bluetooth transmitter?


----------



## Slater (Mar 18, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> after tip rolling the S-size ear tip that came with the ZST (starlines) on my ZS3 i just find the perfect combination ( for me )  of comfort. Even though i lose a bit of isolation not using the foam tips i think that its worth.
> 
> Now it *REALLY  *feels as if the ZS3 were made for my ear , it just fit perfectly.



Yeah Starlines make just about everything more awesome (and better fitting)! I use them on the majority of my IEMs.

I just received a lifetime supply from that ebay link that was posted a few weeks ago (15 pair for $0.99). I got 45 pairs of M (the black Starlines) for under $3! That's ridiculous, as in the past I've paid $0.99 for ONE single SML set!


----------



## Otto Motor

A comment on another discussion site in response to yet another ZS6 review  .


----------



## ricemanhk

Slater said:


> Yeah Starlines make just about everything more awesome (and better fitting)! I use them on the majority of my IEMs.
> 
> I just received a lifetime supply from that ebay link that was posted a few weeks ago (15 pair for $0.99). I got 45 pairs of M (the black Starlines) for under $3! That's ridiculous, as in the past I've paid $0.99 for ONE single SML set!



Yeah every time I buy KZ on taobao now, I ask the seller to give me 3 pairs of M starlines as freebies instead of the usual SML or foamies.  I think they have them in bulk...LOL
Tho with the ZSR I won't have to replace them as often as I did with the ZS5...losing them all over the place once some ear wax/oil builds up on the nozzle and tips...


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> Yeah Starlines make just about everything more awesome (and better fitting)! I use them on the majority of my IEMs.
> 
> I just received a lifetime supply from that ebay link that was posted a few weeks ago (15 pair for $0.99). I got 45 pairs of M (the black Starlines) for under $3! That's ridiculous, as in the past I've paid $0.99 for ONE single SML set!


I'm surprised that you don't already have a pile of Starlines considering how much of a KZ fan you are. 

Is it just me or is the size difference between M and L Starlines less than many other silicone ear tips. They seem to have almost the same sized opening at the flared (larger end opposite of the end which goes in your ear) end and its the bulbous-ness that's the difference between the two sizes.


----------



## Nikostr8 (Mar 19, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yeah Starlines make just about everything more awesome (and better fitting)! I use them on the majority of my IEMs.
> 
> I just received a lifetime supply from that ebay link that was posted a few weeks ago (15 pair for $0.99). I got 45 pairs of M (the black Starlines) for under $3! That's ridiculous, as in the past I've paid $0.99 for ONE single SML set!


Can you please provide the link to them?  Really interested in thata big offer


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> I'm surprised that you don't already have a pile of Starlines considering how much of a KZ fan you are.



I have a pile of S and L, but I only had a couple of M left. Also, KZ only recently started including the Starlines with the ZS-line. They include other, more generic type tips, on pretty much all their other IEMs.



bsoplinger said:


> Is it just me or is the size difference between M and L Starlines less than many other silicone ear tips. They seem to have almost the same sized opening at the flared (larger end opposite of the end which goes in your ear) end and its the bulbous-ness that's the difference between the two sizes.



Yeah, I agree. I always considered them a 'half-size', like the Spiral Dot size "ML" (in between a M and a typical L).


----------



## Slater (Mar 19, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> Can you please provide the link to them?  Really interested in thata big offer



This is the link for the M size: https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Pairs-M...lack-Tip-for-KZ-ED12-ZS2-ATE-ZS3/253021037529

Search the seller's other auctions for the S and L listing.

Also be aware that the seller is using a photo of the old translucent grey Starline on his listings. You receive the current black Starline (same as what comes with ZS6). It's nothing malicious though; I'm sure he doesn't even know there's 2 versions.


----------



## ephrank

Hi all,

Found an upgrade cable on AliExpress

Can anyone tell me if this cable will turn green prematurely? Are the plugs true 0.75mm not 0.78? Thanks


----------



## ricemanhk

ephrank said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Found an upgrade cable on AliExpress
> 
> Can anyone tell me if this cable will turn green prematurely? Are the plugs true 0.75mm not 0.78? Thanks



This is official KZ upgrade silver cable, it's nicer and more strands (4 per side vs 2) than the old silver upgrade.  Too early to tell if it'll turn green, but at least my old silver upgrade is now at least 1y old and still no green, tho I don't use it often.  Others have long turned green already...so I have no idea why.
The plugs are the same 0.75mm with the KZ plastic header so it fits ZST/ZSR perfectly.


----------



## Nikostr8

Slater said:


> This is the link for the M size: https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Pairs-M...lack-Tip-for-KZ-ED12-ZS2-ATE-ZS3/253021037529
> 
> Search the seller's other auctions for the S and L listing.
> 
> Also be aware that the seller is using a photo of the old translucent grey Starline on his listings. You receive the current black Starline (same as what comes with ZS6). It's nothing malicious though; I'm sure he doesn't even know there's 2 versions.


thank you so much , just ordered 2 copies of the S-size. 30 pairs of Starlines for 1.62 euro its too good to ignore.


----------



## ephrank

ricemanhk said:


> This is official KZ upgrade silver cable, it's nicer and more strands (4 per side vs 2) than the old silver upgrade.  Too early to tell if it'll turn green, but at least my old silver upgrade is now at least 1y old and still no green, tho I don't use it often.  Others have long turned green already...so I have no idea why.
> The plugs are the same 0.75mm with the KZ plastic header so it fits ZST/ZSR perfectly.



Thanks @ricemanhk , you're lucky with your cable. I'm on my second set of KZ 2 strands. The first set turned green after 6-7 months of daily use. I reckon it's related to humidity and sweat.


----------



## Superluc

DSebastiao said:


> Hm, i see, does it still make sense while using a bluetooth transmitter?


Depends. How the bluetooth transmitter is connected to the IEM ? With the KZ bluetooth cable you can't place adapter or amp in between.

The trasmitter is a DAC himself, if after it you can place both a portable amp and an adapter then you can, but i think that may destroy the purpose of the wireless connection.


----------



## DSebastiao

Superluc said:


> Depends. How the bluetooth transmitter is connected to the IEM ? With the KZ bluetooth cable you can't place adapter or amp in between.
> 
> The trasmitter is a DAC himself, if after it you can place both a portable amp and an adapter then you can, but i think that may destroy the purpose of the wireless connection.



I could connect just the ear buddy after the transmitter, transmitter to ear buddy to iem's.


----------



## HiFindersKeepers

Just ordered a whole bag of L-tips from there, thanks @Slater !!!


----------



## Superluc

DSebastiao said:


> I could connect just the ear buddy after the transmitter, transmitter to ear buddy to iem's.


Like that the problem is if the transmitter you want to use have or not enough power. I doubt it, but it's something that need to be verified directly, as depends also on how much power the IEM/earbud need. If you normally need put the transmitter's volume too near to its max, you just can't.


----------



## DSebastiao

Superluc said:


> Like that the problem is if the transmitter you want to use have or not enough power. I doubt it, but it's something that need to be verified directly, as depends also on how much power the IEM/earbud need. If you normally need put the transmitter's volume too near to its max, you just can't.



I usually have volume like, 1/4 of the bar, i'll get a new transmitter anyway, might be the Fiio Btr1 or the upcoming 3.


----------



## williamclarkonet (Mar 19, 2018)

Just bought the KZ ZSR really excited to try it out!


----------



## Slater

ephrank said:


> Thanks @ricemanhk , you're lucky with your cable. I'm on my second set of KZ 2 strands. The first set turned green after 6-7 months of daily use. I reckon it's related to humidity and sweat.



The green literally doesn’t hurt anything, and has zero effect on sound or performance.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> The green literally doesn’t hurt anything, and has zero effect on sound or performance.



But it looks ugly.  Would make me not want to use the iem.  Would be forced to get a new cable.


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 19, 2018)

Some more teasers


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> But it looks ugly.  Would make me not want to use the iem.  Would be forced to get a new cable.



You’re right. I was strictly speaking from a functional standpoint.

That’s why a lot of people get the dark grey upgrade cable. It looks good forever.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> You’re right. I was strictly speaking from a functional standpoint.
> 
> That’s why a lot of people get the dark grey upgrade cable. It looks good forever.



I bet you use the green ones.  Or, have none of yours turned green?


----------



## Slater (Mar 19, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I bet you use the green ones.  Or, have none of yours turned green?



Yeah, I definitely use the green ones. Doesn’t bother me. Kind of like patina on jewelry - it gives it charm and character.

A few of my clear/silver ones have turned a green. I’m sure if I exercised in them or subjected them to high humidity they would all be green.

The dark grey ones look perfect. They may be green underneath, but you can’t see it.

Talking about looks, the 4-braided cable with the metal jacks is so good looking to begin with, the sheer beauty of the cable trumps a tiny tinge of green here or there. It’s a work of art, and I get questions about it and compliments on it every time I use it (interestingly enough, usually from women because it looks eye catching like designer jewelry or something).


----------



## cottonbud (Mar 19, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yeah, I definitely use the green ones. Doesn’t bother me. Kind of like patina on jewelry - it gives it charm and character.
> 
> A few of my clear/silver ones have turned a green. I’m sure if I exercised in them or subjected them to high humidity they would all be green.


Couple days ago I ordered new 4-braided cable for ZS6  and when it turning green, I will cut off connectors, cable splitter and make DIY cable, exactly same, but without clear coating.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I get questions about it and compliments on it every time I use it (interestingly enough, usually from women b



Don't you know what was really going on?


----------



## waynes world

mbwilson111 said:


> But it looks ugly.  Would make me not want to use the iem.  Would be forced to get a new cable.



My favorite earbuds have beautiful green oxidized cables (zen 1.0, graphenes). Somehow it helps with the SQ


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> You’re right. I was strictly speaking from a functional standpoint.
> 
> That’s why a lot of people get the dark grey upgrade cable. It looks good forever.



What cable is that? I only know 2, the thinner one, and the thicker one with the red and blue ring around left and right tip.


----------



## cottonbud

DSebastiao said:


> What cable is that? I only know 2, the thinner one, and the thicker one with the red and blue ring around left and right tip.


Iron grey one.


----------



## Slater (Mar 19, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> What cable is that? I only know 2, the thinner one, and the thicker one with the red and blue ring around left and right tip.





cottonbud said:


> Iron grey one.



Yup, that’s the one!

It is basically like the original silver upgrade cable (flexible, well made, no microphonics) but the color stays exactly the same (no visible green). The braid itself is a similar but slightly different design if I remember correctly.


----------



## ipmanincarnito

What KZ has the best isolation - the ZS3? I'm looking for one to replace my dying etymotics (ety kids).

I saw some say that they preferred the ZST?

Researching this stuff reminds me of this video ...


----------



## groucho69

ipmanincarnito said:


> What KZ has the best isolation - the ZS3? I'm looking for one to replace my dying etymotics (ety kids).
> 
> I saw some say that they preferred the ZST?
> 
> Researching this stuff reminds me of this video ...




I want that last IEM!!!!


----------



## youngarthur

Slater said:


> Yeah, I definitely use the green ones. Doesn’t bother me. Kind of like patina on jewelry - it gives it charm and character.
> 
> A few of my clear/silver ones have turned a green. I’m sure if I exercised in them or subjected them to high humidity they would all be green.
> 
> ...


It attracts the Ladies?. I have ordered several immediately!!.


----------



## Slater

youngarthur said:


> It attracts the Ladies?. I have ordered several immediately!!.



I'm not intentionally using it for that, but apparently so.


----------



## DSebastiao

cottonbud said:


> Iron grey one.





Slater said:


> Yup, that’s the one!
> 
> It is basically like the original silver upgrade cable (flexible, well made, no microphonics) but the color stays exactly the same (no visible green). The braid itself is a similar but slightly different design if I remember correctly.



What's the actual difference between that type of cable (that seems to be the official one), and this one?


----------



## cottonbud (Mar 19, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> What's the actual difference between that type of cable (that seems to be the official one), and this one?


Nothing in terms of sound quality. 4 wires instead of 2, straight metal 3,5mm jack and decorative elements with red/blue colored rings on 2-pin connectors .


----------



## CYoung234 (Mar 19, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> What's the actual difference between that type of cable (that seems to be the official one), and this one?


Be careful with that one. The pins are 0.78mm. The ZS5 and ZS6 at least use 0.75mm. The .78mm will work, but will expand the female receptacles, making it difficult to go back to the smaller pins in the future.

You want this one instead:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ated-Cable-Earphone-Upgrade/32842771094.html?


----------



## DSebastiao

CYoung234 said:


> Be careful with that one. The pins are 0.78mm. The ZS5 and ZS6 at least use 0.75mm. The .78mm will work, but will expand the female receptacles, making it difficult to go back to the smaller pins in the future.
> 
> You want this one instead:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ated-Cable-Earphone-Upgrade/32842771094.html?



Ah thanks for the heads up! I thought they were all equal, i'm glad i ordered those!


----------



## Sebilion

For anyone like me who still needs a microphone in their cable, I just discovered these two cables, I don't know their quality yet but I ordered them and when I receive them I'll tell you if they are worth it. 
2 pin 0.75mm to 3.5mm Earphone Replacement Earbuds Exchange Cable w/ 3 Remote Buttons Gold Plated Straight Plug for KZ ED12 ES3
http://s.aliexpress.com/beYVVbEB?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

2 pin 0.75mm to 3.5mm Earphone Replacement Earbuds Exchange Cable w/ 3 Remote Buttons Gold Plated Bent/Straight Plug
http://s.aliexpress.com/Un6bAJ3q?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

I am sure they won't be as high quality as some other cables available, but I am very happy that I found cables with 2 pins and microphone with volume keys.


----------



## Slater

Sebilion said:


> For anyone like me who still needs a microphone in their cable, I just discovered these two cables, I don't know their quality yet but I ordered them and when I receive them I'll tell you if they are worth it.
> 2 pin 0.75mm to 3.5mm Earphone Replacement Earbuds Exchange Cable w/ 3 Remote Buttons Gold Plated Straight Plug for KZ ED12 ES3
> http://s.aliexpress.com/beYVVbEB?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> ...



They seem like nice cables to me.

I know a lot of people desire KZ cables with mics (and volume controls are even better), so be sure to let us know how you like them once they arrive.


----------



## oyobass

To those of you who use a cell phone with a hybrid SIM card/SD card drawer as a portable source, I put up a pictorial on installing a gadget that will allow 2 SIMs and an SD card. I recently combined my phone I use as my calling phone with the phone with built-in DAC i use as an audio source, and wanted to use the music on my SD card as well.
You can find it at this link in the Best Smartphone for Audiophile part 2 thread. This may be old news to some of you, but I (being the geek I am), was really excited to discover the hack.

Gratuitous KZ content: I really like the "steel gray" cables, but it would be very handy to have at least one upgrade cable with a mic. It's not often I would use it, but it would be nicer than grabbing a leftover stock cable with a mic.


----------



## nxnje

Hello guys, since when i bought my memt x5 replacing my zs3 i'm figuring out so much noise due to the microphonic cable when it touches my clothes.
Is someone of you able to help tipping me how to reduce this effect?
Thanks for the help!


----------



## lucasbrea

nxnje said:


> Hello guys, since when i bought my memt x5 replacing my zs3 i'm figuring out so much noise due to the microphonic cable when it touches my clothes.
> Is someone of you able to help tipping me how to reduce this effect?
> Thanks for the help!


The best way to fix that is switching cables, you can get the silver cable from kz is cheap and good quality


----------



## nxnje

lucasbrea said:


> The best way to fix that is switching cables, you can get the silver cable from kz is cheap and good quality



Man, memt x5 don't leave me the chance in replacing cable
They have a soldered cable..


----------



## Nikostr8

nxnje said:


> Hello guys, since when i bought my memt x5 replacing my zs3 i'm figuring out so much noise due to the microphonic cable when it touches my clothes.
> Is someone of you able to help tipping me how to reduce this effect?
> Thanks for the help!


try using a shirt clip.

may i ask how would you compare the x5 to zs3?? currently owning the second one


----------



## SomeTechNoob

X5 has more treble and recessed mids when compared to the ZS3 imo.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 20, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Hello guys, since when i bought my memt x5 replacing my zs3 i'm figuring out so much noise due to the microphonic cable when it touches my clothes.
> Is someone of you able to help tipping me how to reduce this effect?
> Thanks for the help!





nxnje said:


> Man, memt x5 don't leave me the chance in replacing cable
> They have a soldered cable..


You could make a chin slider from a bit of thin, flexible hook and loop cable tie. push it up the cable under your chin until the cables from your ears touch the sides of your face. Your skin will absorb some of the noise traveling up the wire before it gets to your ears. Running the cable over your ears if possible also helps in the same way.


----------



## nxnje

Nikostr8 said:


> try using a shirt clip.
> 
> may i ask how would you compare the x5 to zs3?? currently owning the second one



Do u think i can buy a separated shirt clip? Can you link me one if u know ?

Anyway, zs3 and memt are similiar on how they sound.
It all comes to the shape.
Zs3 is much more similiar to an IEM due to his form factor (cable that goes around the ear) while the memt x5 is more similiar to common in-ear headphones.

They're both v-shaped
The zs3 can deliver a little bit more bass thanks to his bigger driver while the memt just drops a few less bass.
Talking about the memt :
I was surprised about the bass anyway on the memt: they're not muddy, they're fast and have a good extension and u have can feel the rumble and even much sub bass.
The mids are recessed, but they sound Ok, and the highs are detailed. 
Soundstage is Ok too, instruments are not separated like other headphones i think, but soundstage is still good, stereo separation is well done too.
Imaging is not top notch but still enjoyable.
I think a good comparison could be the rock zircon while having memt x5 as a much better zircon.

The zs3 anyway had an uncomfortable shape for me, and the memory wire was so freaking annoying. The nozzle wasn't compatible with my ear, and i had much vacuum feeling due to that, but many people reported it to be very comfortable with memory foam tips, which i didn't try with the zs3 as i bought them when i received my memt for the first time.

If they weren't so much big for my ear i would have probably kept them, as they sounded really good for a basshead like me, even if i found the memt x5 to be more detailed than the zs3.
I have to say the soundstage of zs3 is not as wide as on the memt x5.
Certain thing is that we can't pretend much by these little iems as their price is so low..
The zs3 even have the advantage in being semi modular as you can change the cable if it has problem and so on. 
You even have to consider the memt x5 has an annoying microphonic cable and the stock kz cable is microphonic too, but it can be changed.

If you have precise questions, i can answer to you, i really can't describe a headphone with much details while i can answer you if u have specific doubts. 

Anyway, i think i'm gonna buy the zs3 again as i really wanna try them with foam tips, or i'll maybe go with the zsr.. i dunno..


----------



## nxnje

oyobass said:


> You could make a chin slider from a bit of thin, flexible hook and loop cable tie. push it up the cable under your chin until the cables from your ears touch the sides of your face. Your skin will absorb some of the noise traveling up the wire before it gets to your ears. Running the cable over your ears if possible also helps in the same way.



I'm sorry to say this but.. i didn't understand :/ could you maybe explain with images or something like that ? 
I tried to understand but i can't imagine what you're meaning..


----------



## Nikostr8

here u have the link for a cheap one (2 units) link.

Personally i think im going to buy a second pair of ZS3 as a backup since it fits me so well and they price is really appealing.

or i should wait for the new kz earphones that are going to be released in a few...


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Hello guys, since when i bought my memt x5 replacing my zs3 i'm figuring out so much noise due to the microphonic cable when it touches my clothes.
> Is someone of you able to help tipping me how to reduce this effect?
> Thanks for the help!



Easiest way is using a shirt clip, or you can make a chin slider from a very small piece of Velcro. I can post a photo of my X5 chin slider if you want to see it.


----------



## nxnje

Nikostr8 said:


> here u have the link for a cheap one (2 units) link.
> 
> Personally i think im going to buy a second pair of ZS3 as a backup since it fits me so well and they price is really appealing.
> 
> or i should wait for the new kz earphones that are going to be released in a few...


Yes me too, i really wanna see a good balanced iem.. i even wanna try Uisii cm5 but i don't buy it just cuz i'm afraid they're big for my ear.



Slater said:


> Easiest way is using a shirt clip, or you can make a chin slider from a very small piece of Velcro. I can post a photo of my X5 chin slider if you want to see it.


Yea, that would be great. You're always so good with people here!


----------



## oyobass

nxnje said:


> I'm sorry to say this but.. i didn't understand :/ could you maybe explain with images or something like that ?
> I tried to understand but i can't imagine what you're meaning..


No problem. "Hook and loop" also goes by the brand name "Velcro." The same stuff you would use to organize cables:


The small bit below the black cable is the amount you would need.

Wrap it tightly around the wires leading to your earphones:
 

From a MeeAudio manual:
 

By the way, I modded my ZS3 by filing down the bump that faces in toward the ear a small amount. It is much better now, I can wear them for several hours before having to take them off.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 20, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Yes me too, i really wanna see a good balanced iem.. i even wanna try Uisii cm5 but i don't buy it just cuz i'm afraid they're big for my ear.



You are in luck!

There are two sizes of the CM5: GearBest has both sizes

https://www.gearbest.com/CM5-_gear/

I have the large size CM5 and it fits me much better than the KZ ZS3. It is the most comfortable IEM I own.


----------



## nkramer

anybody have both sizes and can comment if they sound the same? or were different drivers used in the different sizes?


----------



## bsoplinger (Mar 20, 2018)

oyobass said:


> No problem. "Hook and loop" also goes by the brand name "Velcro." The same stuff you would use to organize cables:
> …
> The small bit below the black cable is the amount you would need.
> 
> ...


Here's a Gearbest link for the stuff I use. It doesn't have the loops as much as just a texture on the other side (which probably are really small loops) so is a bit neater. The rolls are about a meter long so you get plenty with 1 roll. I make my own cable ties / cord minders with the stuff. About a buck a roll from Gearbest.
https://www.gearbest.com/cables-connectors/pp_134112.html?wid=21

Amazon link for a 5 pack for $9. I color code my cable wraps.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074P15FWZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/QUOTE]


----------



## oyobass

bsoplinger said:


> Here's a Gearbest link for the stuff I use. It doesn't have the loops as much as just a texture on the other side (which probably are really small loops) so is a bit neater. The rolls are about a meter long so you get plenty with 1 roll. I make my own cable ties / cord minders with the stuff. About a buck a roll from Gearbest.
> https://www.gearbest.com/cables-connectors/pp_134112.html?wid=21
> 
> Amazon link for a 5 pack for $9. I color code my cable wraps.
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B074P15FWZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks for the links. That is actually my preferred type, since it is thin and can be "trained" to wrap around very small wires. It is what is in the photo as the smaller loop of Velcro. The thicker stuff doesn't want to be wrapped so tightly and starts to let go.

I am almost out of my stash of the good stuff, so the links are very timely.


----------



## nxnje

oyobass said:


> You are in luck!
> 
> There are two sizes of the CM5: GearBest has both sizes
> 
> ...



How do they sound compared to kz zs3?
How can i know which one of these is the small version?


----------



## oyobass (Mar 20, 2018)

nxnje said:


> How do they sound compared to kz zs3?
> How can i know which one of these is the small version?


Small version has the white back.

Have not done an A/B test yet between the two. Will post results when I do.


----------



## MyPants (Mar 20, 2018)

For what it's worth, the CM5 is excellent. Back to back with the ES3 it's very difficult to say one is outright better. The UiiSii sounds more natural than the ES3 but no less detailed. The ES3 has more "air and sparkle" to the treble (characteristic of a balanced armature) while the CM5 is a tad laid back. Bass impact and tightness is very similar on both. The packaging for the CM5 is miles and miles nicer than anything I've seen from KZ and the earphones themselves feel slightly more premium due to a nicer (but non-removable) cable and a frosted inner shell. At their respective price points, it's a toss up and you could easily justify owning both.

Perhaps more pertinent to the discussion, both the ES3 and the CM5 are IMO in a class above the dark and fuzzy sounding ZS3 (which are plenty fun, but simply not competitive on detail retrieval).


----------



## Untoten

Just ordered ZS6’s with upgraded cable, I’m excited to see how they compete with sennheisers momentum iem’s. Not really that high expectations but it’s always nice to try something new. I heard they may be a little too harsh in highs but let’s see. I’ll guess there is somekind of mods to be done if necessary. Damn almost 2000 pages already


----------



## MyPants

Untoten said:


> Just ordered ZS6’s with upgraded cable, I’m excited to see how they compete with sennheisers momentum iem’s. Not really that high expectations but it’s always nice to try something new. I heard they may be a little too harsh in highs but let’s see. I’ll guess there is somekind of mods to be done if necessary. Damn almost 2000 pages already



Some folks find them bright or sibilant enough to need modding, but for me it was a simple matter of New Bee or Comply foam tips. They tamp down the peakiness juuust enough while improving seal (read bass) and comfort.


----------



## nxnje

MyPants said:


> For what it's worth, the CM5 is excellent. Back to back with the ES3 it's very difficult to say one is outright better. The UiiSii sounds more natural than the ES3 but no less detailed. The ES3 has more "air and sparkle" to the treble (characteristic of a balanced armature) while the CM5 is a tad laid back. Bass impact and tightness is very similar on both. The packaging for the CM5 is miles and miles nicer than anything I've seen from KZ and the earphones themselves feel slightly more premium due to a nicer (but non-removable) cable and a frosted inner shell. At their respective price points, it's a toss up and you could easily justify owning both.
> 
> Perhaps more pertinent to the discussion, both the ES3 and the CM5 are IMO in a class above the dark and fuzzy sounding ZS3 (which are plenty fun, but simply not competitive on detail retrieval).



I'm a basshead but i still didn't find a pair of headphones that can bring me much bass (that is fast and has good extension) and sub bass even giving me clear mids and highs.
Every headphone i tried has a recessed part of the spectrum, like the mids in the case of zs3 and memt x5.

I seriously can't understand where should i look for even if i guess a headphone like the one i just described and the one i'm wondering doesn't even exist, or if does, it costs so much money.
Many people anyway told me good things about es3 but i even heard it's very bright and might not be liked by bassheads.


----------



## MyPants

nxnje said:


> I'm a basshead but i still didn't find a pair of headphones that can bring me much bass (that is fast and has good extension) and sub bass even giving me clear mids and highs.
> Every headphone i tried has a recessed part of the spectrum, like the mids in the case of zs3 and memt x5.
> 
> I seriously can't understand where should i look for even if i guess a headphone like the one i just described and the one i'm wondering doesn't even exist, or if does, it costs so much money.
> Many people anyway told me good things about es3 but i even heard it's very bright and might not be liked by bassheads.



You're basically describing the LZ A4 with the red rear filter installed. $195-200 at Penon/Amazon/Etc.


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> No problem. "Hook and loop" also goes by the brand name "Velcro." The same stuff you would use to organize cables:
> 
> The small bit below the black cable is the amount you would need.
> 
> ...



Great explanation - you beat me to the photos!


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> You are in luck!
> 
> There are two sizes of the CM5: GearBest has both sizes
> 
> ...



Whaaaa? When did this happen?


----------



## ShakyJake

Sebilion said:


> For anyone like me who still needs a microphone in their cable, I just discovered these two cables, I don't know their quality yet but I ordered them and when I receive them I'll tell you if they are worth it.
> 2 pin 0.75mm to 3.5mm Earphone Replacement Earbuds Exchange Cable w/ 3 Remote Buttons Gold Plated Straight Plug for KZ ED12 ES3
> http://s.aliexpress.com/beYVVbEB?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links. I also really like the buttons to skip through my playlist(s) and take phone calls on my Axon 7.


----------



## Isloo

I received a pair of the ATE's a few days ago and I have to admit that I am extremely impressed. For $10 they are amazing. IMO they are on a par with the MEE P1's I have, which were $200. I am actually finding that I prefer the ATE's due to their fuller bass and the fact I don't need an amp to drive them properly. I can't wait to listen to the ES3's I also ordered.


----------



## TLDRonin

Isloo said:


> I received a pair of the ATE's a few days ago and I have to admit that I am extremely impressed. For $10 they are amazing. IMO they are on a par with the MEE P1's I have, which were $200. I am actually finding that I prefer the ATE's due to their fuller bass and the fact I don't need an amp to drive them properly. I can't wait to listen to the ES3's I also ordered.


I'm planning on getting some cheap >$10 IEMs on the upcoming aliexpress sale for on the go useage/to keep in my backpack


ATEs seem to be getting very high praise. Trying to decide whether to get them or the Rock Zircons


----------



## Isloo

> I'm planning on getting some cheap >$10 IEMs on the upcoming aliexpress sale for on the go useage/to keep in my backpack
> 
> 
> ATEs seem to be getting very high praise. Trying to decide whether to get them or the Rock Zircons



I see you have the tenore, which I also have. In comparison to tenore, the ATE's sound more natural and fuller. As I hear thing, the Tenore sound noticeably thinner and brighter in comparison.


----------



## TLDRonin

Isloo said:


> I see you have the tenore, which I also have. In comparison to tenore, the ATE's sound more natural and fuller. As I hear thing, the Tenore sound noticeably thinner and brighter in comparison.


That sounds almost too good to be true haha


I suppose these are a must get for me


----------



## djmakemynight

nxnje said:


> I'm a basshead but i still didn't find a pair of headphones that can bring me much bass (that is fast and has good extension) and sub bass even giving me clear mids and highs.
> Every headphone i tried has a recessed part of the spectrum, like the mids in the case of zs3 and memt x5.
> 
> I seriously can't understand where should i look for even if i guess a headphone like the one i just described and the one i'm wondering doesn't even exist, or if does, it costs so much money.
> Many people anyway told me good things about es3 but i even heard it's very bright and might not be liked by bassheads.



Sub-bass? CM5 definitely got you covered. In my opinion, CM5 beats the ZS3 in everything except isolation. On top of that, CM5 doesn't even cost a fraction of a kidney.


----------



## bsoplinger (Mar 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> Whaaaa? When did this happen?


I had the same reaction. Especially since one of my complaints with them are their larger size. I had to chuckle at the pics on the Gearbest size. The big ones are for men and the smaller women. Which explains why 2 of the 3 small sized ones have white instead of black cables and that there isn't an all black (black body and cable) color option. I was impressed enough that if I could get a small size at the Amazon price I'd get a pair but at $25 (with shipping) vs the current $11 Amazon price.

Edit: I would be curious if the change in internal volume effects the sound.


----------



## vegetaleb (Mar 21, 2018)

Aliexpress anniversary is coming in a week, I am still rocking ZS3 as the Ates and W1 Pro have some ear tips problems specially for sports, I noticed the ZS5 and ZS6 are pretty expensive and there are no real offers coming up for the anniversary, while I have found the KZ ZSR at 20$ instead of 30$.
Do you consider them as an upgrade over the ZS3? I just need a bit more soundstage and details, I am not a basshead

Edit: I have found just now ZS5 at 20$ anniversary price, I wonder if I will be able to use a  2$ coupon too. so now it's a battle between ZSR and ZS5, for me mids.soundstage and details are more important than heavy bass. Also comfort in ear is important for sports


----------



## TLDRonin

vegetaleb said:


> Edit: I have found just now ZS5 at 20$ anniversary price, I wonder if I will be able to use a  2$ coupon too. so now it's a battle between ZSR and ZS5, for me mids.soundstage and details are more important than heavy bass. Also comfort in ear is important for sports


From what I've seen in reviews, ZSR win out in both soundstage and mids, while ZS5 should edge the ZSR out in details

Both shells seemingly won't fit in smaller ears, and I wouldn't recommend either for use while doing sports...


----------



## CoiL (Mar 21, 2018)

Any info on latest ZS5 being revised back to v1 (1xBA in nozzle, 1xBA in shell) ? Want to have another v1... badly...


TLDRonin said:


> From what I've seen in reviews, ZSR win out in both soundstage and mids, while ZS5 should edge the ZSR out in details
> Both shells seemingly won't fit in smaller ears, and I wouldn't recommend either for use while doing sports...


Firstly, what version ZS5 are You comparing to ZSR ? I suppose v2? Anyway, v1 mids and especially soundstage are just plain AWESOME when ran with low output impedance source and amping (I know - I`m repeating myself too much! ;P ). It has bigger, more surround and spread out imaging/soundstage and is little more neutral-sided than IT01, which, imho, speaks a lot about their SQ. On the other hand, IT01 has more dynamical, coherent and fuller sound with same (or slightly better) amount of micro-details through fr spectrum.


----------



## oyobass

bsoplinger said:


> I had the same reaction. Especially since one of my complaints with them are their larger size. I had to chuckle at the pics on the Gearbest size. The big ones are for men and the smaller women. Which explains why 2 of the 3 small sized ones have white instead of black cables and that there isn't an all black (black body and cable) color option. I was impressed enough that if I could get a small size at the Amazon price I'd get a pair but at $25 (with shipping) vs the current $11 Amazon price.
> 
> Edit: I would be curious if the change in internal volume effects the sound.


I'm curious too, just not $25 curious...


----------



## Untoten

MyPants said:


> Some folks find them bright or sibilant enough to need modding, but for me it was a simple matter of New Bee or Comply foam tips. They tamp down the peakiness juuust enough while improving seal (read bass) and comfort.



Thanks mate. Could you give me a link to get those foam tips? Possibly from china as well? I live in EU, thank you!


----------



## vegetaleb

CoiL said:


> Any info on latest ZS5 being revised back to v1 (1xBA in nozzle, 1xBA in shell) ? Want to have another v1... badly...
> 
> Firstly, what version ZS5 are You comparing to ZSR ? I suppose v2? Anyway, v1 mids and especially soundstage are just plain AWESOME when ran with low output impedance source and amping (I know - I`m repeating myself too much! ;P ). It has bigger, more surround and spread out imaging/soundstage and is little more neutral-sided than IT01, which, imho, speaks a lot about their SQ. On the other hand, IT01 has more dynamical, coherent and fuller sound with same (or slightly better) amount of micro-details through fr spectrum.



How do you know if it's V1 or V2 when aliexpress shop doesn't give info?
And what about the ZSR?


----------



## zazaboy

KZ zs10 can be ordered now ..


----------



## MyPants

Y'all, we really need a sticky with some basic info in it, because A LOT of this thread is explaining the same things over and over and over again. ZS5v1 vs v2. Driver configurations. Best tip and cable recommendations.


----------



## MyPants

zazaboy said:


> KZ zs10 can be ordered now ..



Where?


----------



## HungryPanda

Preorder from an aliexpress seller that never delivers most of the time


----------



## BrunoC

Well, the KZ ZS10 price is  € 51,77 - 53,42 on Aliexpress pre-order.

This price surely calms down a lot of people...


----------



## vegetaleb

KZ is going the Hifiman road, best bang for the buck at the beginning then slowly increasing the prices


----------



## zazaboy

anyone has info when we can buy from gearbest for kz zs10?


----------



## oyobass (Mar 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> Whaaaa? When did this happen?


In researching the CM5 I saw in some reviews/announcements on the net that this is the way they planned it.
The claims of ergonomic research and development by UiiSii appear to be more than just claims. It is evident they have put some serious thought into fitting a large portion of the population comfortably.

The CM5 is certainly one of the most comfortable IEMs I have ever used. It seems near-weightless, especially with the included "butterfly" large silicone eartip. A close second is a New Bee MEDIUM sized foam tip, which I have never gotten to work well for me before, I always needed to use the large size. Of course I had to turn it around backwards...

The large foam tips block out a bit more sound, but I am always aware of the pressure in my ear canal, unlike the stock large silicone or Medium New Bee foam. Those two allow the CM5 to seem to disappear, leaving just the music.

Disclaimer: I just got the CM5 and I am in full hype train mode. More sober and reasoned judgements to follow if my thoughts change over time...


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Mar 21, 2018)

oyobass said:


> You are in luck!
> 
> There are two sizes of the CM5: GearBest has both sizes
> 
> ...



I'm so buying a pair when the sale starts, now just have to decide if I wanna get the L or S. Probably S.

Shame that there's no detachable cable at this price. 

Btw you can also get them on AliExpress:

UiiSii CM5 network anchor star in-ear earphone coaxial graphene design HIFI bass karaoke 3.5MM headset for iPhone Samsung Xiaomi
http://s.aliexpress.com/2EVnumUr

For now, I'm absolutely in love with the v20! These are something special for the price, I'm really struggling to find any flaws with the sound. The fit could be better but the coating on them is super comfortable, I could literally put them in and take them out all day without any discomfort. The housings are pretty huge by my standards tho, the nozzle too so tip rolling is paramount. Although the stock grey/red KZ tips aren't bad, I'm using the medium (green) Sony hybrid tips at the moment.


----------



## Wiljen

vegetaleb said:


> KZ is going the Hifiman road, best bang for the buck at the beginning then slowly increasing the prices



I wouldn't say that yet.  The Zs6 was pre-order at $60 and dropped the minute it was actually available and has been on sale as low as the 30s.   I'd expect the same here.  This is the I want it first tariff and once it comes out price will move more inline with what we have seen in times past.


----------



## bsoplinger

Wiljen said:


> I wouldn't say that yet.  The Zs6 was pre-order at $60 and dropped the minute it was actually available and has been on sale as low as the 30s.   I'd expect the same here.  This is the I want it first tariff and once it comes out price will move more inline with what we have seen in times past.


I purchased 2 pairs for under $25 so the price dropped more than you realized.


----------



## maxxevv (Mar 21, 2018)

Agreed.

Should see Gearbest prices in the ~US$40+ range within a month of general availability

I got a few pairs of the ZS6 for friends in the US$25 range too.


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> I'm planning on getting some cheap >$10 IEMs on the upcoming aliexpress sale for on the go useage/to keep in my backpack
> 
> 
> ATEs seem to be getting very high praise. Trying to decide whether to get them or the Rock Zircons



KZ EDR1 should be on your list for sure. It leaves the Rock Zircon in the dust.

If you want a little more neutral sound, opt for the EDR2 instead (or in addition to).

Although honestly, you don’t have to wait for the anniversary sale. You can get either of those on eBay or Gearbest pretty much anytime for ~$4.xx

I noticed that the price of both went up to over $6-$7 on Aliexpress, in preparation for the “discounted” price of $4.xx for the anniversary sale. The artificial price increases always happen right before the anniversary and 11.11 sale. So if you don’t want to play price games either go for eBay/GB or just wait for the Aliexpress anniversary sale madness to end and the price to stabilize to normal levels again.


----------



## Makahl

vegetaleb said:


> KZ is going the Hifiman road, best bang for the buck at the beginning then slowly increasing the prices



In the future... KZ ZS2000

$2000 because it sounds good!


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> KZ is going the Hifiman road, best bang for the buck at the beginning then slowly increasing the prices



Yeah, if that is any indication of the future of KZ, I’m going to just stick with the old stuff.

I mean, you can buy KZs that sound great for $4-$10: EDR1, EDR2, ATE, ZS3, HDS3, ZN1 Mini, ED9.

I sincerely doubt the ZS10 at $64 is going to sound so much better than the EDR1 that it justifies a 16xs higher cost.


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> I'm so buying a pair when the sale starts, now just have to decide if I wanna get the L or S. Probably S.
> 
> Shame that there's no detachable cable at this price.
> 
> ...



If most other full-bodied IEM fit you, such as the ZS3, ZS5, ZS6, ZSR, etc I would stick with the CM5 L size. Especially since that’s the size every comment you’ve ever heard about the CM5 is referring to up until now.

Since no one had the S size yet, and the body is smaller, there’s no guarantee that the sound will be the same.

The ergonomics of the CM5 are awesome - it’s probably the most comfortable IEM I own other than the W1 Pro.


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I purchased 2 pairs for under $25 so the price dropped more than you realized.



ZS6 was even on sale for $19.99 at Gearbest on more than one occasion.


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> ZS6 was even on sale for $19.99 at Gearbest on more than one occasion.


...And probably will be again.


----------



## nxnje

@Slater can u tip me away how to train my comparison level?
I mean.. i saw on the forum there's a vocabulary about the therms people use to describe sounds, and i know some of em, but i really wanna train my self in distinguish them from iems to iems.

Another thing is i saw many people can retrieve graphs about how a iem sounds. Could you please tell me how can i do that? I mean things like this :


----------



## Wiljen (Mar 21, 2018)

@Slater just hit exactly the point I was going to make.  With the scaling of price point of the newer Kz models, at what point do they become an "also-ran" and no longer represent the value that they once did at a lower price point?

At $60, I can buy any of the following new:
Soundmagic PL50
Tin Audio T2
TFZ series 3
Dunu Titan or CKR10
PMV A-01
Brainwavz b100
Macaw GT100
Shozy Hibiki
Havi B3
BGVP DM5
Ostry 06
VSonic VDS3s
Senn CX3
Fidue A65

You also have to consider things like the Shure 215 and Westone UM1 as they are now within striking distance if you catch a good sale.

There are too many good choices in that price range to feel like the Kz represents good value unless it really steps up its game.     If you drop the price point to $40 - all of those competitors fall off the list and you have a much easier field to compete with.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Slater said:


> If most other full-bodied IEM fit you, such as the ZS3, ZS5, ZS6, ZSR, etc I would stick with the CM5 L size. Especially since that’s the size every comment you’ve ever heard about the CM5 is referring to up until now.
> 
> Since no one had the S size yet, and the body is smaller, there’s no guarantee that the sound will be the same.
> 
> The ergonomics of the CM5 are awesome - it’s probably the most comfortable IEM I own other than the W1 Pro.



I know, but I want to be the first! 

Also, I've always preferred the smaller housings... my ears aren't that small but smaller IEMs just feel more comfortable for me.


----------



## Nikostr8

Must resist the temptation of CM5... i already have 2 earphones incoming 


By the way, is the zs10 the only one being released in a few?


----------



## oyobass (Mar 21, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> Must resist the temptation of CM5... i already have 2 earphones incoming
> 
> 
> By the way, is the zs10 the only one being released in a few?


With apologies to Paul Simon:

KZ only knows,
Kz makes its plans,
The information is unavailable to the mortal man.

Could be the release date is slip-sliding away.

(  Looks around and ducks.)


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Nikostr8 said:


> *Must resist the temptation of CM5... i already have 2 earphones incoming *
> 
> 
> By the way, is the zs10 the only one being released in a few?



 Nooo, give into the temptation ! It's totally worth it


----------



## groucho69

BrunoC said:


> Well, the KZ ZS10 price is  € 51,77 - 53,42 on Aliexpress pre-order.
> 
> This price surely calms down a lot of people...



So in 6 weeks, 30?


----------



## Saoshyant

Before anyone gets the orders from today, Gearbest will most likely have a sale going.  This time I'm waiting.


----------



## Slater

Nikostr8 said:


> Must resist the temptation of CM5... i already have 2 earphones incoming





Lifted Andreas said:


> *Nooo, give into the temptation ! It's totally worth it *



Agreed; CM5 has a graphene dual-dynamic driver. That right there is all the reason you need LOL

I'm rocking out with the CM5 as I type this


----------



## wuf

What kz would you recommend if bass is priority?


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Slater said:


> Agreed; CM5 has a graphene dual-dynamic driver. That right there is all the reason you need LOL
> 
> I'm rocking out with the CM5 as I type this



Nice, well its either the CM5 for me or the ZSR. 

Shame you can't get the CM5 without a mic attached to it. Btw do you have a review up for it yet mate?


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2018)

nxnje said:


> @Slater can u tip me away how to train my comparison level?
> I mean.. i saw on the forum there's a vocabulary about the therms people use to describe sounds, and i know some of em, but i really wanna train my self in distinguish them from iems to iems.



Sure friend, here's some helpful tips:

1. Read the vocabulary definitions found here:

https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/describing-sound-a-glossary.220770/

You don't have to know all of the vocabulary, but start with some of the easier terms to detect (such as veiled, tinny, muddy, splashy, sibilance, etc). Also, note that the list isn't comprehensive, but most terms are there.

2. What you can also do is find posts where people are using the same IEMs that you own, and read what they write. So for example, if you own the KZ ZST or ZS6, there's lots of posts where people talk about the treble being sibilant, having splashy cymbals, etc. Some of the posts even talk about which exact songs they hear the sounds in. Then you can listen to the same songs, and try to hear what they are hearing. When you do, you'll be like "Ahhh, I unerstand what they are talking about now!".

3. As you get better and better at training your ears and identifying the simpler-to-hear terms, you can move on to some of the more technical (and sometimes harder to discern) concepts (such as wide vs deep soundstage, instrument separation, bleeding frequencies, roll-off, etc).

4. Another thing that I found is helpful is to train your ears to certain frequencies. You can do this a number of ways, but one of the best I have found is to install an (iOS) app such as hearEQ. It gives you asy tests that help you to train your ears to hear changes at certain frequencies. What this does is allow you do learn what 500Hz sounds like compared to 1kHz for example. This is helpful for evaluating IEMs, and learning how to describe what the sound is like at different frequencies (such as lower midrange, upper treble, etc).



nxnje said:


> Another thing is i saw many people can retrieve graphs about how a iem sounds. Could you please tell me how can i do that? I mean things like this



To do this, you need 3 things:
1). A "calibrated mic" (ranges in price from $20 to tens of thousands of dollars). The cheapest calibrated one that most programs support is the Dayton Audio iMM6 ($20-$25).
2). A coupler to hold the IEM (ranges in price from free to tens of thousands of dollars). Common DIY couplers are just a short piece of silicone tubing, a short piece of vinyl tubing, and cut down 3cc or 5cc syringe.
3). A program to take the measurements (ranges in price from free to tens of thousands of dollars). Some examples are ARTA (free for the PC), REW (free for the PC), AudioTools ($25 for iOS), and Analyzer ($20 for iOS). There are many other apps (including for Android, Mac, etc), but those are the ones I'm familiar with. The apps for iOS are a great way to reuse an old iPhone or iPad. The apps can run on older iOS and don't need cellular connectivity, so an iPhone 4, iPad 2, iPad Mini 1, etc are perfect for the task.

You can even buy an all-in-1 device that combines #1 and #2 above (for example Veritas II https://diyearphone.com/products/veritas-ii).

A great thread that is very helpful about the measurement topic is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-fr-measurement-database-339-iems-measured.830062/

My setup is the Dayton Audio iMM6 microphone, a few DIY couplers I made for free (a silicone tube and also a 3cc syringe), and AudioTools on my iPhone.

Here's a few of the couplers I made:




And here is an example of the type of measurement you get (this is a KZ EDR1 measured with an experimental coupler I made last night):
[/user]


----------



## Slater

wuf said:


> What kz would you recommend if bass is priority?



EDR1


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Sure friend, here's some helpful tips:
> 
> 1. Read the vocabulary definitions found here:
> 
> ...



Your description is lovely, and i think i love you too ahahahah
Btw, jokes apart, your description was really good and i think i'm gonna invest more time on this stuff.
I'm even a beginner in music production and so i still didn't face many time mixing and mastering questions where all comes about imaging, soundstage, panning, cleaning the frequencies and equalizing the spectrum in the way i like.

I know many terms like soundstage, bleeding and so on, i just wanna train on some things like ''muddy'', ''boomy'', ''veiled'' and so on
I have a memt x5 and i found many different reviews on the web, so i don't know what should i trust from them, and that comes even with other headphones so it's always a big (?) to choose reviews to pick like ''standard''.

I even saw you have KZ-ATE between your all iems, do u like them?
I really love my memt x1, really, but since ATE are a steal for how much are they priced, i'm really thinking about buying a pair just for try them.
I really like headphones which have punchy and well extended bass, and i like when i can hear a deep sub-bass, but i find (imho) my memt x5 very good in highs while being ''sibilant'' a few times and a bit recessed in the mids. I even hear my memt x5 has an OK soundstage, but not as good as many people say about other headphones. Imaging is anyway good imho.

Is my description correct as i can compare mine with you? i saw you have memt x5 too.
How would you compare memt x5 with ate? which are the differences?


----------



## Majorfifth

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/
is this real?


----------



## HungryPanda

MyPants said:


> Where?





Majorfifth said:


> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/
> is this real?


 Yes so we have been led to believe


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 21, 2018)

ZS 10. Pre-sale. Coupons for the price of $32 ended.

I think at the start of sales, the price will be lower than $65.

https://m.ru.aliexpress.com/item/32...teDetail&spm=2114.12010611.0.0.37f21543mInENA


----------



## theintroprose (Mar 21, 2018)

I keep coming back to my KZ ZS6.. they've really grown on me. Paring them with Vali 2 + Genalex _Gold_ Lion E88CC Tube and SpinFit tips really helps tame them. Particularly in busy synth or rock music where the high frequency range could get overwhelming and overcrowded on these IEMs. They are particularly fun to listen to at low and moderate levels, due to plenty of detail being available.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 21, 2018)

*REMOVING PEARCING TREBLE FROM THE ZS6: THIS WORKS *
Narrowing the tips certainly takes the pierce out...what else it changes I don't know because I don't have an unmodded pair for direct comparison.

EDIT: overall sound appears to be ok. I also have been running it on a radio since Friday to work the membranes.


----------



## Otto Motor

WalterTorino said:


> ZS 10. Pre-sale. Coupons for the price of $32 ended.
> 
> I think at the start of sales, the price will be lower than $65.
> 
> https://m.ru.aliexpress.com/item/32...teDetail&spm=2114.12010611.0.0.37f21543mInENA



That "pre-sale" was likely bs and the coupon was bogus. I speculate that seller is not even close to getting a hand on the ZS10, he just wants to get everybody's business. Gearbest typically has the first new KZ models. 

After a short while, the ZS10 will be probably available for around $40.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Your description is lovely, and i think i love you too ahahahah
> Btw, jokes apart, your description was really good and i think i'm gonna invest more time on this stuff.
> I'm even a beginner in music production and so i still didn't face many time mixing and mastering questions where all comes about imaging, soundstage, panning, cleaning the frequencies and equalizing the spectrum in the way i like.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I hope you were able to understand my description. Your English is very good (much better than my Italian I assure you LOL). Italy is a beautiful country and all of the people there are very friendly 

Be aware that I have the original X5. There is a new version of the X5 that is supposed to sound improved, but I have not heard it. So all of my comments are talking about the original version of the X5. Anyways, the X5 is known for it's good bass - it's very tight and fast. For some reason I have never liked the midrange though - there is a very unnatural tone to it, which sounds flat and wooly. Perhaps I just got a bad pair? Because a lot of people rave about the X5, but it is one of my least favorite IEMs. The X5 has good clarity and good soundstage though. The cable is extremely microphonic, and the nozzle is very small, so tips always fall off in my ears when removing the IEM.

I think the ATE is much better than the MEMT X5. Unfortunately, it has LESS sub bass than the X5. But the ATE beats the X5 in every other catagory - wider soundstage, better clarity, midrange, better instrument separation, and the tone is very natural. It is probably the most natural sounding IEM of all that I own. Whatever driver KZ used in the ATE, it is a very special one (perhaps it is the voice coil or diaphragm). I love the way vocals sound on the ATE, and all instruments sound so accurate (especially acoustic instruments). The stock gel foam tips that come with the ATE are garbage, and need to be thrown in the trash bin as soon as you open the ATE box. I like wide bore tips on the ATE, which take everything good about the ATE and make it even better. If I had any complaints about the ATE, it would be that I wish for a little bit more sub bass, and I wish it had brighter treble (but that is just my personal preference). The shells are very comfortable, but I know some people don't like the "weights" on the cable (they don't bother me though, and do a good job of keeping the cable weighed down).

I think anyone who is a KZ fan should own the ATE for vocals and acoustic. It is an older KZ model, but the price is affordable.

If you are looking an excellent IEMs with sub bass, I think you would really like the KZ EDR1. It is only $4, and it is better than the ATE and MUCH better than the MEMT X5. It is V-shaped, so it has recessed midrange like the MEMT X5. But compared to both the ATE and X5, the EDR1 has better treble (brighter, no sibilance), and more extension in both the sub bass and treble regions.

Anyways, I hope that is helpful!


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> *REMOVING PEARCING TREBLE FROM THE ZS6: THIS WORKS *
> Narrowing the tips certainly takes the pierce out...what else it changes I don't know because I don't have an unmodded pair for direct comparison.



BTW, those style of bamboo toothpicks are awesome!


----------



## Francisk

nxnje said:


> @Slater can u tip me away how to train my comparison level?
> I mean.. i saw on the forum there's a vocabulary about the therms people use to describe sounds, and i know some of em, but i really wanna train my self in distinguish them from iems to iems.
> 
> Another thing is i saw many people can retrieve graphs about how a iem sounds. Could you please tell me how can i do that? I mean things like this :



 Very nice and awesome sounding audio interface....the ZOOM UAC2


----------



## zazaboy

guys does anyone know how much burn in kz zs6 to sound good??? anyone have any idea .... would like to know thanks


----------



## nxnje (Mar 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> Thanks, I hope you were able to understand my description. Your English is very good (much better than my Italian I assure you LOL). Italy is a beautiful country and all of the people there are very friendly
> 
> Be aware that I have the original X5. There is a new version of the X5 that is supposed to sound improved, but I have not heard it. So all of my comments are talking about the original version of the X5. Anyways, the X5 is known for it's good bass - it's very tight and fast. For some reason I have never liked the midrange though - there is a very unnatural tone to it, which sounds flat and wooly. Perhaps I just got a bad pair? Because a lot of people rave about the X5, but it is one of my least favorite IEMs. The X5 has good clarity and good soundstage though. The cable is extremely microphonic, and the nozzle is very small, so tips always fall off in my ears when removing the IEM.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the english question!
I've been writing and reading in english since i was a child but never did courses or followed lessons at school, boringas they never teach you how to use english language "every day".

Anyway, i don't know the difference between the new memt x5 and the one that you own.
I bought my x5 in december, and it sounds really good for what i expected.. i wasn't expecting so much by a cheap iem like x5.
I've heard a lot tipping the edr1 without finding reviews online (just reviews about the edr2, that seems a bit too bright) but even if i'm a basshead i really like to hear clear midrange, natural voices and so on.
I think i'm gonna grab an ATE as soon as possibile.

Yea, the memt x5 have little nozzles, so my foam tips (T400 from aliexpress) pop off many times.
The cable yeah... is microphonic af, and i tried the solution u tipped me with his own "velcro" ring (it's big compared to the one that a guy posted through an example pic) and i noticed a good reduction of noise in the earbud.

Now my girl is gonna give me my gift for the birthday that comes in a few days : she ordered me my first lossless dap (agptek m20) so i can finally start my experience of lossless files even when i'm not at home, and i think i'm gonna stick with my memt x5, but i'm SO MUCH CURIOUS to try many other cheap in-ears in order to create myself an idea about how i want a headphones should sound like.

Ps: pic of the little velcro ring


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> guys does anyone know how much burn in kz zs6 to sound good??? anyone have any idea .... would like to know thanks



39 hours, 17 minutes, and 23 seconds. Exactly.


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> 39 hours, 17 minutes, and 23 seconds. Exactly.



I took 141443 seconds.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> 39 hours, 17 minutes, and 23 seconds. Exactly.


iPod? Dap? Radio? AM? FM?

Joke aside, I am not sure "burn-in" or better "break-in" makes any difference. But it won't do any harm.


----------



## Slater (Mar 21, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Thanks for the english question!
> I've been writing and reading in english since i was a child but never did courses or followed lessons at school, boringas they never teach you how to use english language "every day".



That's amazing man! It has been shows that kids are able to learn multiple languages at a young age, because the areas of the brain that learn language soak up the information like a sponge. But when you are older, those areas of the brain no longer learn languages, and it is much much harder to learn a different language when you are older. When you are older, your brain must learn languages in other ways, mainly using the memory functions of the brain to memorize foreign words, and their association with the same words in your native language.

For example you can show a young child a glass or water or give them a drink and say "acqua" and they will learn it very quickly. But let's say you have a native English speaker, and they are a young adult trying to learn Italian. Because the language center of the brain is kind of "closed" to remembering new words, they have to memorize that "acqua" = "water" in English, and create a memorized word association that is linked to the native language word that is located in their language center.

I hope that make sense. I know I'm not explaining it that well, but the point is that you are lucky to learn English at such a young age, because it is much easier to learn a foreign language as a child than as an adult 



nxnje said:


> Anyway, i don't know the difference between the new memt x5 and the one that you own.
> I bought my x5 in december, and it sounds really good for what i expected.. i wasn't expecting so much by a cheap iem like x5.
> I've heard a lot tipping the edr1 without finding reviews online (just reviews about the edr2, that seems a bit too bright) but even if i'm a basshead i really like to hear clear midrange, natural voices and so on.
> I think i'm gonna grab an ATE as soon as possibile.
> ...



So here is a post from @1clearhead that explains the differences between the old X5 and the new X5 (and how to tell the difference): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...phones-and-iems.820747/page-659#post-13579691

To know if you have the new version, you would look for the paper "Made in China" tag on the end of the cable by the 3.5mm jack (which is not there on the old X5).

And also, the new X5 included extra sets of "wide bore" double-flange tips, as seen is this photo (the black ones on the right side):







So carefully look at all of the tips that came with your X5, count the sets (including the set that came installed on the X5 itself). Then compare yours to that photo and you will know which version of the X5 you have 

Also, are those other IEMs in your photo Xiaomi Pistons? It's hard to tell exactly what they are from the photo. Which model are they, and how do you like them?

P.S. - You have a pretty cool girlfriend there. Anyone who cares enough to get their special someone some nice audio gear is A-OK in my book.


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> I took 141443 seconds.



Perfecto! You have a perfectly-burned in pair!

You just have to be real careful - here's what happens when you burn it in for even ONE extra second:


----------



## maxxevv

That guy used a lighter it seems.... lol...


----------



## oyobass (Mar 21, 2018)

nxnje said:


> How do they sound compared to kz zs3?
> How can i know which one of these is the small version?


Test tracks:
Pink Floyd- _Welcome to the Machine_ and _Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts I-V)_
Allman Brothers-_ Ain't Wastin' Time No More _and _Dreams_
Also selections of trance mixes from our friend @Lifted Andreas - Really good stuff! Check out the links in his signature line!

I have just done some A/B listening between the two. They have a somewhat similar signature and loudness level.

The CM5 extends both higher and lower with a more engaging, enveloping sound. It also has less mid-bass bloat and slightly more midrange, making vocals stand out more clearly and giving a more 3D sound to many tracks, notably the Hammond organ in _Dreams_. Sub bass was brought out in _Welcome to the Machine_'s synth bass parts.

The difference between the two? Tracks on the CM5 seem more real (to me at least). The ZST, while a very nice sounding IEM, was a bit more boxy and constrained in it's signature. Of course, everyone hears things differently and may completely think my comparison is rubbish. Fair enough.

Let me know if you have any more questions. I'll try to answer...


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Perfecto! You have a perfectly-burned in pair!
> 
> You just have to be real careful - here's what happens when you burn it in for even ONE extra second:


Someone left *that *marshmallow in the fire just a bit too long...


----------



## DocHoliday

nxnje said:


> Thanks for the english question!
> I've been writing and reading in english since i was a child but never did courses or followed lessons at school, boringas they never teach you how to use english language "every day".
> 
> Anyway, i don't know the difference between the new memt x5 and the one that you own.
> ...





> I've heard a lot tipping the edr1 without finding reviews online



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-edr1-in-ear-monitor.22987/


----------



## Slater

rayliam80 said:


> And if anyone is interested...Auvio wide-bore ear tips are on sale @ Radio Shack - Set of 2 tips (4 pieces) for $1 USD. Search for "replacement tips"





Podster said:


> _THX again for the heads up @rayliam80 , my Rad Shack had the three size kits for $1.50!_



+1 on Podster's comment. Thanks to @rayliam80 for posting up the Rat Shack eartip deal.

While I would have loved to get the (2) pairs of M for $1, I was perfectly happy getting the full SML set for $1.50. I even used a coupon code I found online for an extra 15% off! They do have plenty of S and L in the "2 for $10" version. On Radio Shack's website (radioshack.com), the part numbers are as follows:

S "2 pairs for $1" kit: *3300783*
M "2 pairs for $1" kit (*sold out*): 3300784
L "2 pairs for $1" kit: *3300785*
SML for $1.50 kit: *3301585*
15% off coupon code: *RADIO15*
** Free shipping on website orders over $19.

_Note: Since they made the coupon code to predictable, be sure to try RADIO20, RADIO25, or RADIO30 to see if you can get an even bigger discount! I've used that trick before at other websites!_

I've never even seen or heard of the Auvio tips (not sure how I missed all of the recommendations on them). Anyways, I'm glad I did because they are really nice and fit great. They are a different shape than your typical wide bore tips (such as the KZ/Tennmak Turbo/Whirlwinds). They are shaped more like a KZ Starline or Sony Hybrid, except with a wide bore. Very nice feeling and grippy!


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> That's amazing man! It has been shows that kids are able to learn multiple languages at a young age, because the areas of the brain that learn language soak up the information like a sponge. But when you are older, those areas of the brain no longer learn languages, and it is much much harder to learn a different language when you are older. When you are older, your brain must learn languages in other ways, mainly using the memory functions of the brain to memorize foreign words, and their association with the same words in your native language.
> 
> For example you can show a young child a glass or water or give them a drink and say "acqua" and they will learn it very quickly. But let's say you have a native English speaker, and they are a young adult trying to learn Italian. Because the language center of the brain is kind of "closed" to remembering new words, they have to memorize that "acqua" = "water" in English, and create a memorized word association that is linked to the native language word that is located in their language center.
> 
> ...


Quite strange. My pair had the tag and came with wide bore tips, but the barrel at the Y split is different than the pictured one; the one in the picture is thinner on one end, but mine is a perfect cylinder, as in the same shape as the mic.


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> Quite strange. My pair had the tag and came with wide bore tips, but the barrel at the Y split is different than the pictured one; the one in the picture is thinner on one end, but mine is a perfect cylinder, as in the same shape as the mic.



I think that's an optical illusion from the photo.

Does your nozzle look like the larger one on the right, or the smaller one on the left?


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> I think that's an optical illusion from the photo.
> 
> Does your nozzle look like the larger one on the right, or the smaller one on the left?


Its definitely not an optical illusion, you can also see two grooved lines on the left side, and a white part on the far right







As for the nozzle, I'm almost sure its the bigger/newer one


----------



## zazaboy

@Slater what do you think about uiisii cm5 do they share the same sound signature like kz ate or they different.. I like the kz ate atm.. if the uiisii cm5 is like a kz ate v2 I will order it .. I heard they have a natural soundstage too and how is the treble is it brighter or darker .. what do you think ? need some advice


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> That's amazing man! It has been shows that kids are able to learn multiple languages at a young age, because the areas of the brain that learn language soak up the information like a sponge. But when you are older, those areas of the brain no longer learn languages, and it is much much harder to learn a different language when you are older. When you are older, your brain must learn languages in other ways, mainly using the memory functions of the brain to memorize foreign words, and their association with the same words in your native language.
> 
> For example you can show a young child a glass or water or give them a drink and say "acqua" and they will learn it very quickly. But let's say you have a native English speaker, and they are a young adult trying to learn Italian. Because the language center of the brain is kind of "closed" to remembering new words, they have to memorize that "acqua" = "water" in English, and create a memorized word association that is linked to the native language word that is located in their language center.
> 
> ...



I have already heard those informations about the brain, it's really interesting about how it's complicated.
Anyway you're right, as a child you can easy associate a word to an image while when u grow up your brain always searches for the traduction of that word in your mother language.
that's pretty awesome!

By the way, i was watching that x5 post and i'm pretty sure i have the new ones.
The Y splitter has a cilinder shape while the one in the photo (representing the old one) is thinner on the bottom side.
The nozzle is not as little as in the photo of the old version and mine come with the ''made in china'' sticker on the end of the cable.
I even received an extra packet of tips so i'm sure it's the new version (even if those tips all suck a lot imho).

As for the piston yea.
In the photo you can see a pair of Superlux hd681F (which i use mostly to eq and make comparisons about the sound that comes out from my monitor speakers in order to have stuff that sounds like i wanted it should) and a pair of Xiaomi Piston Fresh version.

They're not the hybrid ones but the cheapest "Fresh" version, that i really enjoyed before trying memt x5, kz zs3.
They have a good bass response, especially for the price.
Mids sounds a bit innatural and highs are not well detailed like in the others i've just mentioned, but considering i paid 2 euros for them, that's a big OK. They're even comfortable to me. Atm i use just their microphone to speak with my friends on teamspeak while using the superlux for gaming and so on.



oyobass said:


> Test tracks:
> Pink Floyd- _Welcome to the Machine_ and _Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts I-V)_
> Allman Brothers-_ Ain't Wastin' Time No More _and _Dreams_
> Also selections of trance mixes from our friend @Lifted Andreas - Really good stuff! Check out the links in his signature line!
> ...


Thanks a lot for your description. Many people like you speaks in a very good way about cm5, i think i'm gonna buy a pair of em asap, maybe when i find some coupon codes and so on.



DocHoliday said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-edr1-in-ear-monitor.22987/


Dunno why didn't i find this, i even searched for those therms.
Thanks a lot for the link! Anyway, as you described it (even if i have to consider everyone hear things differently based on his hearing preferences) i trust the fact that mids are recessed, which i'm not gonna like as i already have them on my memt x5 and if i'm gonna buy a new pair of iems, i will assure myself mids should be not recessed.


----------



## nxnje

zazaboy said:


> @Slater what do you think about uiisii cm5 do they share the same sound signature like kz ate or they different.. I like the kz ate atm.. if the uiisii cm5 is like a kz ate v2 I will order it .. I heard they have a natural soundstage too and how is the treble is it brighter or darker .. what do you think ? need some advice


Would you like sharing your personal impressions about the ate and how they sound?
Could u make a comparison with other IEMs you got?

thanks in advance for your opinion.


PS: I really like this forum, there's so much nice people that i can't find other places like this, and i think this is what brings this community to the next level and this makes this place what it actually is : amazing!


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> Its definitely not an optical illusion, you can also see two grooved lines on the left side, and a white part on the far right
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, OK I understand what you were talking about now. I was confused on the mic piece.

So yeah the y split is definitely different. What's interesting is that on my OLD X5 (with the small nozzle) the mic is a perfect cylinder with the grooves, and the y split is kind of tapered with no grooves.

On @1clearhead's NEW X5 (large nozzle), he has the same cable type as me - the mic is a perfect cylinder with the grooves, and the y split is kind of tapered with no grooves.

On the photos of YOUR new X5 (large nozzle), you have BOTH the mic AND Y split as a perfect cylinder with the grooves.

It's likely that MEMT just ramdomly uses 1 of the 2 splitters (tapered and straight) - basically whatever they have on hand at the time. The MEMT X7 and X9 uses the same straight cylinder (with grooves) and the same cable, but they use a different mic control than the X5.


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> @Slater what do you think about uiisii cm5 do they share the same sound signature like kz ate or they different.. I like the kz ate atm.. if the uiisii cm5 is like a kz ate v2 I will order it .. I heard they have a natural soundstage too and how is the treble is it brighter or darker .. what do you think ? need some advice



CM5 sounds different than the ATE. The CM5 has more sub bass, and has brighter treble than the ATE (although the CM5 treble is by no means harsh or piercing - it's very smooth and non-fatiguing).

Not sure what you mean by ATE v2. By that I mean there are (5) known revisions of the ATE (ie ATE v1 theough ATE v5). I don't even know if you can buy the real ATE v2 any more - it would be pretty old and rare by now. Can you explain what you mean by ATE v2?


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> CM5 sounds different than the ATE. The CM5 has more sub bass, and has brighter treble than the ATE (although the CM5 treble is by no means harsh or piercing - it's very smooth and non-fatiguing).
> 
> Not sure what you mean by ATE v2. By that I mean there are (5) known revisions of the ATE (ie ATE v1 theough ATE v5). I don't even know if you can buy the real ATE v2 any more - it would be pretty old and rare by now. Can you explain what you mean by ATE v2?



I talked about uiisii cm5.. I thought its a better version of kz ate .. more like v2 or something .. I didnt mentioned the kz ate itself.. uiisii cm5 looks good imho and cheap



nxnje said:


> Would you like sharing your personal impressions about the ate and how they sound?
> Could u make a comparison with other IEMs you got?
> 
> thanks in advance for your opinion.
> ...



I think kz ate is the best bang for buck what you can get under 50 bucks... I like the sound signature.. because I listen lot of genres ... I like it more then the kz zs6 atm... I hope this helps


----------



## jeromeaparis

zazaboy said:


> guys does anyone know how much burn in kz zs6 to sound good??? anyone have any idea .... would like to know thanks



I did burn in my recent red ZS6, first during about 120 hours with pink and sin-log noise without much improvement of the trebles.
Then I started with white noise (at moderate volume)  This white noise seems efficient for the trebles.
I think that White noise during 50-100 hrs is good


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> By the way, i was watching that x5 post and i'm pretty sure i have the new ones.
> The Y splitter has a cilinder shape while the one in the photo (representing the old one) is thinner on the bottom side.
> The nozzle is not as little as in the photo of the old version and mine come with the ''made in china'' sticker on the end of the cable.
> I even received an extra packet of tips so i'm sure it's the new version (even if those tips all suck a lot imho).



Yes, it sounds like you definitely have the new version.



nxnje said:


> As for the piston yea.
> In the photo you can see a pair of Superlux hd681F (which i use mostly to eq and make comparisons about the sound that comes out from my monitor speakers in order to have stuff that sounds like i wanted it should) and a pair of Xiaomi Piston Fresh version.
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, believe it or not, I have the new "fresh" version as well! I like it a lot too.

You may be interested to know that the reason the mids and highs don't sound detailed is because there is a big piece of foam shoved inside of the nozzle. If you gently lift the nozzle screen with a sewing needle, you will see the foam piece directly under the screen. You just remove this foam using your sewing needle. Then you can stick the nozzle screen back into place. The nozzle screen has sticky adhesive on it, and it will stick right back into its original place. With the foam removed, the midrange and treble become much clearer. It improves the sound of the Piston Fresh Version by a large amount!


----------



## zazaboy

jeromeaparis said:


> I did burn in my recent red ZS6, first during about 120 hours with pink and sin-log noise without much improvement of the trebles.
> Then I started with white noise (at moderate volume)  This white noise seems efficient for the trebles.
> I think that White noise during 50-100 hrs is good



this helps bro thanks...


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> I talked about uiisii cm5.. I thought its a better version of kz ate .. more like v2 or something .. I didnt mentioned the kz ate itself.. uiisii cm5 looks good imho and cheap



OK, I understand what you mean now.

Yes, I think the CM5 is like an evolved ATE (or an ATE v2 if you want to think of it like that).

The ATE is a like vintage/classic Mercedes, like a SL500 from the 1980s. And the CM5 is like a 2017 SL500. Sleeker, more powerful, sexier, newer technology. The classic model is good, but the newest model is an improvement upon the classic.


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> this helps bro thanks...



Make sure when you burn in the ZS6 (or ANY earphone/headphone), that you use a normal listening volume. Do NOT use a high volume, or you can damage and/or fry the gear.


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> Ah, OK I understand what you were talking about now. I was confused on the mic piece.
> 
> So yeah the y split is definitely different. What's interesting is that on my OLD X5 (with the small nozzle) the mic is a perfect cylinder with the grooves, and the y split is kind of tapered with no grooves.
> 
> ...


After looking through some aliexpress reviews, I've found a couple of other perfect barrel y splitters

Strange how there they inconsistently use 2 different y splitters


----------



## TLDRonin

zazaboy said:


> this helps bro thanks...


Don't expect too much of a difference

The reason you received a lot of joke responses are because burning in is a very polarizing topic, which tends to be associated as a "snake oil" type of thing.

However placebo is a thing, and burning in won't do anything negative to your IEMs (as long as you aren't blasting the volume like Slater warned), so feel free to do it if you want


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Mar 22, 2018)

oyobass said:


> Test tracks:
> Pink Floyd- _Welcome to the Machine_ and _Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts I-V)_
> Allman Brothers-_ Ain't Wastin' Time No More _and _Dreams_
> Also selections of trance mixes from our friend @Lifted Andreas - Really good stuff! Check out the links in his signature line!
> ...



Thanks for the kind words mate. Glad you enjoyed listening to my Trance mixes! They're great for burning in too, as well as listening... if you like Trance that is. 

Also, how you described the sound of the CM5 is how I think the TRN v20 sounds like, to me at least. Probably with a bit less sub-bass and mids not quite as forward, but still a very clear presentation overall.

Honestly cannot wait till I try the CM5 (and doing a proper comparison with the v20), still deciding which size to get. Probably will get the large CM5.


----------



## trumpethead

Nikostr8 said:


> Must resist the temptation of CM5... i already have 2 earphones incoming
> 
> 
> By the way, is the zs10 the only one being released in a few?



Resistance is Futile, however imo They are well worth it especially if get them for the 11.99 Amazon USA price. I got


Nikostr8 said:


> Must resist the temptation of CM5... i already have 2 earphones incoming
> 
> 
> By the way, is the zs10 the only one being released in a few?



Resistance is Futile! But don't worry, They are totally worth it imo! Especially at the 11.99 Amaxon USA price...


----------



## CYoung234

trumpethead said:


> Resistance is Futile, however imo They are well worth it especially if get them for the 11.99 Amazon USA price. I got
> 
> 
> Resistance is Futile! But don't worry, They are totally worth it imo! Especially at the 11.99 Amaxon USA price...



Yes, in the end, resistance was futile, so I ordered a pair at the great Amazon price. Interesting to see so many comments about the CM5 in a KZ thread! lol....


----------



## Lifted Andreas

CYoung234 said:


> Yes, in the end, resistance was futile, so I ordered a pair at the great Amazon price. Interesting to see so many comments about the CM5 in a KZ thread! lol....



Well it looks like they ship to UK too, I'm just debating whether to order them or not. It will cost me like $20 in total.


----------



## j0nb0y

Just ordered my KZ ZS10's for £21.50 (pre-sale)!

Anyone know when they will be released?


----------



## Lifted Andreas

j0nb0y said:


> Just ordered my KZ ZS10's for £21.50 (pre-sale)!
> 
> Anyone know when they will be released?



30th of March I think.


----------



## oyobass

Lifted Andreas said:


> Thanks for the kind words mate. Glad you enjoyed listening to my Trance mixes! They're great for burning in too, as well as listening... if you like Trance that is.
> 
> Also, how you described the sound of the CM5 is how I think the TRN v20 sounds like, to me at least. Probably with a bit less sub-bass and mids not quite as forward, but still a very clear presentation overall.
> 
> Honestly cannot wait till I try the CM5 (and doing a proper comparison with the v20), still deciding which size to get. Probably will get the large CM5.


Good music deserves a good mention.
By the way, since my CM5s are new, my disclaimer that I'm on the hype train still applies. I still haven't A/B'ed them against the ZS5 or 6 yet. I'm waiting for brain burn-in to stabilize on the CM5 first...


----------



## j0nb0y

Lifted Andreas said:


> 30th of March I think.


Should get them mid-April then hopefully in time for holidays!


----------



## AsheshM

j0nb0y said:


> Just ordered my KZ ZS10's for £21.50 (pre-sale)!
> 
> Anyone know when they will be released?



Do you have the link for this? I could not find it for 21.50..though i got a seller coupon $30.


----------



## CoiL

Guys, with all that money (KZ asking more and still having bad QC, revisions, treble issues, no proper crossover), seriously, keep the money (especially when KZ prices reach around 50$). Rather get something like IT01 which has great QC, great customer support, insanely HQ cable, great HQ build and most important - better SQ than any KZ I`ve owned. There are other great offers around 100$ price tag - King Pro, CH9T etc. which most should give same great value and SQ, all over KZ`s.
Until KZ gets in the game of graphene drivers and tube-fitted BAs - keep Your money. 
Or, just buy current most favorable KZ by many users and feedback and never return back to head-fi (otherwise You`ll just spend more money).

I`m not bashing KZ... I myself hoarded KZs long time but for another reasons - I wanted to find out my personal sound signature preference and do different modifications for educational reasons. I found the sound signature closest for my taste, needs and gear by ZS5v1.
From that point I got idea where to jump next and be happy.
For those who just want good sounding IEM with average gear or better chi-fi gear this "KZ hoarding" road is not needed imho. 
Be happy with 1 recommended KZ or jump to higher price tag (that offers much more as complete package).

Honestly, I could have been 100% happy with my ZS5v1 and end my personal audio journey but I just wished to "confirm" what I hear out of it with comparing higher quality and well reviewed item having similar sound signature to my personal subjective sound signature. 
Now I`m with 2 personal "TOTL" IEMs - ZS5v1 & IT01 with first one being like "full-sized open headphone" and second like "full-sized half-closed headphone", both still having very similar sound signature and SQ. One being little better in aspects that other is weaker but both still not lacking anything for my personal taste, hearing, gear, fit etc.

I`m done with IEMs here and in head-fi in general. But I`ll be still around with other things and keep eye on threads 

Wishing You all KZ "hoarders" money spent well and hope You find Your personal sound signature with all the other goods an item is offering!

Bye!


----------



## vladstef

There is finally some new info about ZS10's driver configuration. As some of us have suspected, it uses 2 of the same BAs used in ZS5v2 and ZS6. However, these are not going in the nozzle meaning that they will sound completely different + the crossover that ZS10 obviously has.

I can't find any info about 50060 driver, I just hope that it's a mid range driver and not some super high tweeter.


----------



## chinmie

CoiL said:


> Guys, with all that money (KZ asking more and still having bad QC, revisions, treble issues, no proper crossover), seriously, keep the money (especially when KZ prices reach around 50$). Rather get something like IT01 which has great QC, great customer support, insanely HQ cable, great HQ build and most important - better SQ than any KZ I`ve owned. There are other great offers around 100$ price tag - King Pro, CH9T etc. which most should give same great value and SQ, all over KZ`s.
> Until KZ gets in the game of graphene drivers and tube-fitted BAs - keep Your money.
> Or, just buy current most favorable KZ by many users and feedback and never return back to head-fi (otherwise You`ll just spend more money).
> 
> ...



nice to know that you've found your end game (at least for now).i also have found mine, but i still enjoyed reading this thread, although i basically didn't have KZ anymore. 
 now it's time to focus fully on enjoying them and just listen to music


----------



## procmail

j0nb0y said:


> Just ordered my KZ ZS10's for £21.50 (pre-sale)!
> 
> Anyone know when they will be released?


Can you share how you managed to get at that price?


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Mar 22, 2018)

oyobass said:


> Good music deserves a good mention.
> By the way, since my CM5s are new, my disclaimer that I'm on the hype train still applies. I still haven't A/B'ed them against the ZS5 or 6 yet. I'm waiting for brain burn-in to stabilize on the CM5 first...



I am looking forward to your review on them, and the comparisons.

With everyone saying that the CM5 is one of the most comfortable IEMs ever, I am tempted to just place an order.

PS. Also I am curious how you thought Trance sounded with the CM5? As that is one of the main genres I listen to.


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Guys, with all that money (KZ asking more and still having bad QC, revisions, treble issues, no proper crossover), seriously, keep the money (especially when KZ prices reach around 50$). Rather get something like IT01 which has great QC, great customer support, insanely HQ cable, great HQ build and most important - better SQ than any KZ I`ve owned. There are other great offers around 100$ price tag - King Pro, CH9T etc. which most should give same great value and SQ, all over KZ`s.
> Until KZ gets in the game of graphene drivers and tube-fitted BAs - keep Your money.
> Or, just buy current most favorable KZ by many users and feedback and never return back to head-fi (otherwise You`ll just spend more money).
> 
> ...



Wise words!

Bye!


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> 39 hours, 17 minutes, and 23 seconds. Exactly.



I must be blessed. Mine was 39H17M22S


----------



## Otto Motor

*ROBUST TESTING OF THE ZS6 MOD*
Listened extensively on low-impedance output sources (MacBook Air and iPhone 5S) last night and this morning. Then changed to the ZS5 v1. and back to the ZS6. I included some complex vocal music.

Result:
1. There is no downside to the modding. Nothing muffled, muddled etc.
2. Sibilance prevails in the ZS6.
3. In comparison to my KS5 v1., the ZS6's sound is better rounded, the voices are more natural, and it has more depth and presence. The ZS6 is a more competent earphone than the ZS5 - and it is easier to drive.
4. The ZS6's treble is not fatiguing anymore.


----------



## groucho69

CoiL said:


> Guys, with all that money (KZ asking more and still having bad QC, revisions, treble issues, no proper crossover), seriously, keep the money (especially when KZ prices reach around 50$). Rather get something like IT01 which has great QC, great customer support, insanely HQ cable, great HQ build and most important - better SQ than any KZ I`ve owned. There are other great offers around 100$ price tag - King Pro, CH9T etc. which most should give same great value and SQ, all over KZ`s.
> Until KZ gets in the game of graphene drivers and tube-fitted BAs - keep Your money.
> Or, just buy current most favorable KZ by many users and feedback and never return back to head-fi (otherwise You`ll just spend more money).
> 
> ...



Wise words. Cheers Mate!


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 22, 2018)

I agree with Coil. Since releasing the ZS5, it was evident that KZ were digging the bigger money. And announcing 10 new models of almost the same simultaneously, shows a somewhat unfocused company planning (remember Apple in the early 90s?). And such quantity makes me suspicious of the quality offered. A highly competent company such as Sennheiser would not do that.

And I am siding with Slater that the ZS10, 11, 12, and 15 won't be much of an "upgrade" over the current sound, considering people still have to mod their current multi-driver models to sound tolerable...as opposed to their $5 single-driver models. I speculate modding will have to continue with the new models.

And when everybody counts the money spent on their 30 KZ earphones, this could have bought them one or more top-of-the-line reference earphones.

What sets the ZS6 apart is its attractive metal body with its attractive design lifted from the Campfire Andromeda. It probably will be their company highlight in terms of eye candy and workmanship for a long time. Good I got it to work properly. The ZS10 is back to cheap plastic.


----------



## rayliam80

Slater said:


> +1 on Podster's comment. Thanks to @rayliam80 for posting up the Rat Shack eartip deal.
> 
> While I would have loved to get the (2) pairs of M for $1, I was perfectly happy getting the full SML set for $1.50. I even used a coupon code I found online for an extra 15% off! They do have plenty of S and L in the "2 for $10" version. On Radio Shack's website (radioshack.com), the part numbers are as follows:
> 
> ...



I'm glad you enjoy them. I bought Auvio tips a couple of years ago when I got the ATH-IM70. A lot of people on a particular head-fi thread said they were a good fit and sound for that IEM. Looking through one of my junk drawers, I came across the packaging and remembered them then just decided to search for them randomly if they were still around. I paid like $7 or $8 then for 2 pairs originally.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 22, 2018)

* ZS6 REACTING TO DIFFERENT OUTPUT IMPEDANCES.*
This is borrowed from the German site headflux.de

Increasing the output impedance reduces the ZS6's piercing treble, starting at 10 kHz and peaking at 13.5 kHz.

A 64 ohm or higher impedance adapter works best.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> I agree with Coil. Since releasing the ZS5, it was evident that KZ were digging the bigger money. And announcing 10 new models of almost the same simultaneously, shows a somewhat unfocused company planning (remember Apple in the early 90s?). And such quantity makes me suspicious of the quality offered. Not even a player as big as Sennheiser would do that.
> 
> And I am siding with Slater that the ZS10, 11, 12, and 15 won't be much of an "upgrade" over the current sound, considering people still have to mod their current multi-driver models to sound tolerable...as opposed to their $5 single-driver models. I speculate modding will have to continue with the new models.
> 
> ...



This seems like a slightly shortsighted reply. KZ has pretty much always been about quantity, having tons of models on the shelves. Often lots of redundancy across a few signature types, usually set within unique shells or variants. Right now they still have well over 10 models readily available for purchase, most of which were released within the last year or two. All the new models coming up are right in line with what they've done in the past, just now with hybrid tech that they've been testing and tweaking with the ZST, ES3, ZS5/6 and ZSR. The biggest difference I see is they've actually announced a plan, unlike before where they would seemingly at random release new models with maybe some leaked info getting out before the model dropped. If anything, announcing all those new models simultaneously could be great for generating early interest.

Considering most of them are 1+1 hybrids, prices are probably going to still be quite low which will continue to attend to their bread-and-butter market. And, going more upscale with other models has been EXACTLY what people have been asking for for years. Just peruse this thread. First it was hybrids. We've got that now. Then it was something pricier and more upscale, but still affordable. The ZS6 was a good go at it. The ZS10 might be just the thing though given its a 5 driver hybrid with a crossover. I'm personally looking forward to seeing what they do with this new lineup and will be reserving judgment till I try them out for myself. They could be a horrendous abomination, sure, but they could also be amazing.

Their plastics have also been quite good over the years, with the exception of some of their really old models like the DS. Their current plastic bodied iems still feel better than a lot of more expensive products, like those from Sennheiser, JVC, Marley, Sony, and other name brands, not to mention comparing to similarly priced Chi-Fi offerings like the BGVP DN1 which feels as cheap as it is. The ZS6 is crazy overbuilt for the price though, and I definitely wouldn't complain if they applied that quality to the full lineup. That said, as long as their plastics remain at least as dense and durable as what they're using for their current lineup, they'll be just fine.

Lastly, having heard lots of totl and reference gear, I'm even more pleased with my KZ collection. Would rather have multiple good earphones of varying signatures than one amazing earphone with one signature.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> I agree with Coil. Since releasing the ZS5, it was evident that KZ were digging the bigger money. And announcing 10 new models of almost the same simultaneously, shows a somewhat unfocused company planning (remember Apple in the early 90s?). And such quantity makes me suspicious of the quality offered. A highly competent company such as Sennheiser would not do that.
> 
> And I am siding with Slater that the ZS10, 11, 12, and 15 won't be much of an "upgrade" over the current sound, considering people still have to mod their current multi-driver models to sound tolerable...as opposed to their $5 single-driver models. I speculate modding will have to continue with the new models.
> 
> ...



Well said.


----------



## VinceHill24

To be honest, i'm more contented with some of KZ discontinued model like the HDS3. I wonder why they discontinue one of the best product ever made, it's like now everything has to be big and covers your ears and looks stylish as if it's a custom IEM. But as a KZ collector, one just cannot stop to collect it all lol ...just like pokemons.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 22, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> I am looking forward to your review on them, and the comparisons.
> 
> With everyone saying that the CM5 is one of the most comfortable IEMs ever, I am tempted to just place an order.
> 
> PS. Also I am curious how you thought Trance sounded with the CM5? As that is one of the main genres I listen to.


Test track- LASER KISSED VIBES #055 by DJ Lifted Andreas (Ret.)... A track you may be familiar with 

All testing done with New Bee Large and Medium foam tips turned backwards on the IEM nozzle to fit my weird wide/shallow ear openings. Sources; ZTE Axon 7 Mini with the so-called "audiophile" AKM AK4962 DAC/amp/CODEC and a garden variety HP PC with sound from the motherboard stock soundcard.

Trance is one of my favorites, too.

ZS5 quick comparison:
CM5 has a good amount of deep, detailed bass that makes trance or just about any genre EDM come alive. Quick A/B with ZS5- ZS5v1 is much louder on my phone at the same volume setting- my ZTE Axon 7 Mini has a auto-impedance sensing DAC/Amp in it. On the PC's built in sound card the ZS5 is quieter than the CM5- interesting. My phone must be reacting to the ZS5v11's ultra-low 4-ish ohm impedance.
Anyway, for my preferences, the CM5 wipes the floor with the ZS5- On the PC sound card, as well as my phone. Vocals are clearer, bass hits harder and lower with more detail. This is hard for a dyed-in-the-wool KZ fanboy,  but even the soundstage and instrument separation are better.

On to the ZS6 quick comparison:
Fairly evenly matched. CM5 sub bass and bass hit harder and are more detailed. Mids are more forward vs. the ZS6, making vocals clearer in the mix. CM5 treble is extended without the famous harsh spike of the KZ. I would say that there is more treble, but smoother than the ZS6.

The KZs are good IEMS for the money, but the CM5 is gooder-er, smoother-er and better-er.

Disclaimer time again: These evaluations are after taking about a week of getting used to the sound signature of the UiiSii. When I first started listening to them, I felt as if something was missing, but I couldn't put my finger on it. If I listen to the ZS6 or 5 exclusively for a week then compare it to the CM5, my preference may go completely the other way. Humans were not made for precise sound measurement, we are very subjective, no matter how hard we try to be objective.

In my subjective opinion, the CM5 is a steal at the $12 to 23 they can be had for, and certainly worth a try. If you hate them, you can sell them on, or even trash them and not be out much.

In conclusion, I likes it.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 22, 2018)

Another bonus: If you paint the CM5 tops yellow, it'll look like you have tiny bunches of bananas stuck in your ears...


----------



## Lifted Andreas

oyobass said:


> Test track- LASER KISSED VIBES #055 by DJ Lifted Andreas (Ret.)... A track you may be familiar with
> 
> All testing done with New Bee Large and Medium foam tips turned backwards on the IEM nozzle to fit my weird wide/shallow ear openings. Sources; ZTE Axon 7 Mini with the so-called "audiophile" AKM AK4962 DAC/amp/CODEC and a garden variety HP PC with sound from the motherboard stock soundcard.
> 
> ...



Wow that is an awesome write up mate, thank you so much! I was surprised to see there are no reviews of the CM5 on Head-Fi. Hopefully yours will be the first! 

PS. Earlier this happened:

 

I couldn't resist at that price, they are even more expensive on Ali!


----------



## oyobass

Lifted Andreas said:


> Wow that is an awesome write up mate, thank you so much! I was surprised to see there are no reviews of the CM5 on Head-Fi. Hopefully yours will be the first!
> 
> PS. Earlier this happened:
> 
> ...


Oops. Well, accidents happen. Now you'll just have to live with your mistake...


----------



## Nikostr8

Lifted Andreas said:


> Wow that is an awesome write up mate, thank you so much! I was surprised to see there are no reviews of the CM5 on Head-Fi. Hopefully yours will be the first!
> 
> PS. Earlier this happened:
> 
> ...




offtopic: are the trn v20 that good? kinda interested since they are pretty cheap


----------



## vladstef

Oh, imagine the possibilities with ZS10 - we are going to be putting all kinds of stuff in that balanced armature chamber. All the foams and cottons. Also, testing which frequencies are covered by DD will be a lot easier now that there are separate nozzles.

I've ordered two ZS10s because localy KZ sells amazingly well and currently it's possible to find some nice preorder deals. Like them - keep them, hate them - mod them, still hate them - sell them without loss.


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Mar 22, 2018)

oyobass said:


> Oops. Well, accidents happen. Now you'll just have to live with your mistake...



Yeah, I guess I'll have to live with it while enjoying the graphene dual dynamic sound and excellent comfort. 

Have to thank you and @Slater for introducing me to the UiiSii CM5!




Nikostr8 said:


> offtopic: are the trn v20 that good? kinda interested since they are pretty cheap



To my ears they are amazing value for the price I paid. I'm still on a honeymoon period with them but so far I don't regret my purchase one bit!


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 22, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Oh, imagine the possibilities with ZS10 - we are going to be putting all kinds of stuff in that balanced armature chamber. All the foams and cottons. Also, testing which frequencies are covered by DD will be a lot easier now that there are separate nozzles.
> 
> I've ordered two ZS10s because localy KZ sells amazingly well and currently it's possible to find some nice preorder deals. Like them - keep them, hate them - mod them, still hate them - sell them without loss.


Btw, i've finally solved the problem with a freaky peak at 11 kHz of the zs6 - I've bought KZ ATE. Muuuahahahaha!
So, I'm ready to face new challenge. Come on, zs10!


----------



## WalterTorino

Lifted Andreas said:


> Yeah, I guess I'll have to live with it while enjoying the sound and comfort.
> 
> Have to thank you and @Slater for introducing me to the UiiSii CM5!
> 
> ...


Oh, could you tell me, please, what about a bass there? Is it a good choice for a basshead? (I mean the v20)


----------



## Sebilion

Just got the kz zs6 grey bass version, I've been comparing them sound wise to the black ones I have and I can hear a small difference, the grey ones actually sound like if I have live music on or the virtualizer. I don't know if this will change with burning but I like the sound of the black much better, the gey actually feel like a downgrade on sound quality. Hopefully this will change after burning,I don't know what they've changed but it has too much bass. What new models are out so far? I'm going to buy the kz zs10 tonight, anything else out there?


----------



## WalterTorino

Sebilion said:


> Just got the kz zs6 grey bass version, I've been comparing them sound wise to the black ones I have and I can hear a small difference, the grey ones actually sound like if I have live music on or the virtualizer. I don't know if this will change with burning but I like the sound of the black much better, the gey actually feel like a downgrade on sound quality. Hopefully this will change after burning,I don't know what they've changed but it has too much bass. What new models are out so far? I'm going to buy the kz zs10 tonight, anything else out there?


Nope, only the zs10 for now.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 22, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> offtopic: are the trn v20 that good? kinda interested since they are pretty cheap


I have never heard the TRN v20, but I heard that they are nice.


----------



## Nikostr8

oyobass said:


> I have never heard the TRN v20, but I heard that they are nice.



iim waiting for the aliexpress offer so i can pick it for 10 euros ,also the Trn v10 cable (4.5 euro in a few days )  its compatible with kz earphones (angled pin connector ) so i bought one for my zst , it definitely looks better than the kz silver one. i would comment about it when it arrive


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Mar 22, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> Oh, could you tell me, please, what about a bass there? Is it a good choice for a basshead? (I mean the v20)



I'm still burning them in, but so far I can tell the bass presence and extension is pretty good if you can get the correct seal which seems to be difficult for me with my weird ears.

The bass though doesn't overwhelm any other frequencies, its very responsive and quick. I wouldn't say that its on a basshead level though. The IEM overall actually sounds pretty balanced to my ears, although I usually prefer and listen to V shaped IEMs so thats not saying much.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 22, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> This seems like a slightly shortsighted reply. KZ has pretty much always been about quantity, having tons of models on the shelves. Often lots of redundancy across a few signature types, usually set within unique shells or variants. Right now they still have well over 10 models readily available for purchase, most of which were released within the last year or two. All the new models coming up are right in line with what they've done in the past, just now with hybrid tech that they've been testing and tweaking with the ZST, ES3, ZS5/6 and ZSR. The biggest difference I see is they've actually announced a plan, unlike before where they would seemingly at random release new models with maybe some leaked info getting out before the model dropped. If anything, announcing all those new models simultaneously could be great for generating early interest.
> 
> Considering most of them are 1+1 hybrids, prices are probably going to still be quite low which will continue to attend to their bread-and-butter market. And, going more upscale with other models has been EXACTLY what people have been asking for for years. Just peruse this thread. First it was hybrids. We've got that now. Then it was something pricier and more upscale, but still affordable. The ZS6 was a good go at it. The ZS10 might be just the thing though given its a 5 driver hybrid with a crossover. I'm personally looking forward to seeing what they do with this new lineup and will be reserving judgment till I try them out for myself. They could be a horrendous abomination, sure, but they could also be amazing.
> 
> ...



B9's words were well chosen and they echo my sentiments to the letter.

Regarding in-ear monitors, I am a "hobbyist". 

I could have put a cork on things long ago if it was just about finding an IEM that worked for me......but being a "hobbyist", I enjoy the journey as I discover absolute gems every once in a while.

Some people collect seashells and others collect watches. If the first watch was working properly is it foolish to get another? No, because the hobby is NOT solely about utility. 

Some people collect those ridiculous little spoons every time they go out of town while others collect beer from micro-breweries. 

Jay Leno purchased "Rosebud", his 1955 Buick RoadMaster for $350 back in 1972. Like me, Jay finds something interesting and noteworthy about every item in his collection. Tens of thousands tune in to his show, just as many tune in here, to learn something they didn't know before. Not everyone on head-fi is a hobbyist. Some just don't have the time for it because they have more pressing issues in their life at the moment (new wife, new baby, etc.), but some of us tune in to see what's new and interesting while still others become a "Jay Leno", if you will. If you are a hobbyist then it's likely that you find joy in the journey.....and, yes, you can count me as one such "collector" of price-to-performance in-ears. 

The bottom line is that few companies do "price-to-performance" better than KZ on a consistent basis.

Proof:

MicroRing
ANV
ED3 "Perfection"
ED3 "Acme"
EDSE
ED8
ED9 
ED10
ED11
EDR1 
EDR2
HDS1
HDS3
ATE
ATR
ZS1
ZS3
ZST
ES3
ZSR
ZS5(i)
ZS6
and counting.....

With the exception of the current ATE and ATR (according to reports) I can tell you from direct experience that no two of these in-ear monitors sound the same.

In closing I will say that KZ should take advantage of the opportunity they have in the ZSR's development. It is my opinion that KZ could actually reset the bar or raise the standard for what a great price-to-performance in-ear monitor should be. 

How so?
(let's dub this IEM as the ES1)

1) Improve the ZSR housing by offering it in ceramic instead of plastic.
     (the ZS6's improved materials make it a vastly superior model to the ZS5's plastic housing in my opinion. Likewise, ceramic housing would make our "ES1" a vastly superior model to the ZSR's plastic housing giving the ES1 a more premium feel.)

2) Issue our newly dubbed ES1 with the ZST's 8mm dynamic driver as opposed to the ES3's 10mm dynamic driver found in the ZSR.

3) Issue our newly dubbed ES1 with a basic microphone cable and one upgrade cable.

4) Everything else remains as it is in the ZSR.

End result:

A clean and balanced sound signature displaying fast and punchy bass with a centered midrange, fatigue-free micro-details and an incredibly wide and airy soundstage.

If you own the ZSR then you will get my point because the only controversial frequency on the ZSR is the tuning of the bass. Some find it to be too much while others absolutely love it. Offer a variation with cleaner/faster bass so the soundstage gains air and perhaps width. This would also present a relatively balanced sound signature with incredible detail from 20hz to perhaps 14khz. Having a highly detailed and balanced sound signature in a high quality ceramic housing with detachable cables at the $35+/- price-point would indeed set a new standard and would be very difficult for competitors to topple. The Rock Zircon was a ceramic-bodied IEM at the $18 price-point and KZ has proven itself to be more adept at manufacturing in-ear monitors than Rock ever was. The Tinn Audio T2 is $50+/-. The BossHiFi B3 is $30+/- (permanent cables).... and so on and so on..... There is competition to be sure, but KZ is the king of consistent price-to-performance value. 

The new crop of KZ IEM's about to ship out seem fine enough but I believe Knowledge Zenith would be overlooking a huge opportunity if they quickly move past the effort and time that was invested in the ZSR's development. Apparently, KZ has been working on the ZS10 for over a year, so it should be phenomenal but this opportunity could slip right through their fingers if they're not paying attention. 

Knowledge Zenith's single dynamic driver ATE(ATR) has been one of KZ's most successful selling models for more than three years but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that our so called ES1 would set the new standard of what an excellent sub $40 hybrid in-ear monitor with detachable cables should be.

Bring on the new models but be wise enough to avoid spending time trying to capture the two birds in that bush when you have one bird in your hand already?

Just a thought. ....


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 22, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> I'm still burning them in, but so far I can tell the bass presence and extension is pretty good if you can get the correct seal which seems to be difficult for me with my weird ears.
> 
> The bass though doesn't overwhelm any other frequencies, its very responsive and quick. I wouldn't say that its on a basshead level though. The IEM overall actually sounds pretty balanced to my ears, although I usually prefer and listen to V shaped IEMs so thats not saying much.


Thanks a lot - seem to be an interesting model for me


----------



## Lifted Andreas

WalterTorino said:


> Thanks a lot - seem to be an interesting model for me



No problem, I've put up a preliminary (work in progress) review of the TRN v20 which you can check out here if you want - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-v20-in-ear-monitor.23013/reviews

For the money (I paid around $20) I think they're totally worth it just on the sound alone!


----------



## Strat Rider

oyobass said:


> Test track- LASER KISSED VIBES #055 by DJ Lifted Andreas (Ret.)... A track you may be familiar with
> 
> All testing done with New Bee Large and Medium foam tips turned backwards on the IEM nozzle to fit my weird wide/shallow ear openings. Sources; ZTE Axon 7 Mini with the so-called "audiophile" AKM AK4962 DAC/amp/CODEC and a garden variety HP PC with sound from the motherboard stock soundcard.
> 
> ...


I wasn't even near the fence let alone straddling it. BUT after the positive talk of an iem not named KZ, in a KZ thread, i just pushed the Amazon Prime, button...they will arrive on Sunday


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 22, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Oh, imagine the possibilities with ZS10 - we are going to be putting all kinds of stuff in that balanced armature chamber. All the foams and cottons. Also, testing which frequencies are covered by DD will be a lot easier now that there are separate nozzles.
> 
> I've ordered two ZS10s because localy KZ sells amazingly well and currently it's possible to find some nice preorder deals. Like them - keep them, hate them - mod them, still hate them - sell them without loss.



Link please.

Or anyone else who has already ordered the ZS10.


----------



## oyobass

Strat Rider said:


> I wasn't even near the fence let alone straddling it. BUT after the positive talk of an iem not named KZ, in a KZ thread, i just pushed the Amazon Prime, button...they will arrive on Sunday


I'm waiting for people to tell me how wrong my impressions are, lol.


----------



## Slater

Sebilion said:


> Just got the kz zs6 grey bass version, I've been comparing them sound wise to the black ones I have and I can hear a small difference, the grey ones actually sound like if I have live music on or the virtualizer. I don't know if this will change with burning but I like the sound of the black much better, the gey actually feel like a downgrade on sound quality. Hopefully this will change after burning,I don't know what they've changed but it has too much bass. What new models are out so far? I'm going to buy the kz zs10 tonight, anything else out there?



Just your mind playing tricks on you: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992


----------



## Slater

WalterTorino said:


> Oh, could you tell me, please, what about a bass there? Is it a good choice for a basshead? (I mean the v20)



For bassheads, the KZ EDR1 edges out the UiiSii CM5 in that department (especially if you use KZ Starline tips).


----------



## WalterTorino (Mar 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> For bassheads, the KZ EDR1 edges out the UiiSii CM5 in that department (especially if you use KZ Starline tips).


And what about the ed9? A lot of people are recommending this model to me.

Aaand what about a sound signature of the edr1 at all? Except a bass is it a good sounding model?


----------



## Strat Rider (Mar 22, 2018)

oyobass said:


> I'm waiting for people to tell me how wrong my impressions are, lol.



Not that I have an overabundance of funds, but for the Azon price......worth a gamble. (Besides, Starbucks isn't going bankrupt because I didn't get my venti, quad, caramel macchiato on Saturday)
Aahhh who the heck am I kidding, not giving up over hyped, over priced coffee. BESIDES Most people know, caffeine HELPS stimulate the tiny hairs in the ears, LOL.
And at this price, most people that have the CM5, make a point of them being so comfortable.
Apparently can be used as earplugs when I want to ignore the wife!

Just to stay on topic, I just modded a new pair of ZS6 with poster tack over one BA. Treble doesn't bother me. Just Curious.


----------



## nxnje

zazaboy said:


> I talked about uiisii cm5.. I thought its a better version of kz ate .. more like v2 or something .. I didnt mentioned the kz ate itself.. uiisii cm5 looks good imho and cheap
> 
> 
> 
> I think kz ate is the best bang for buck what you can get under 50 bucks... I like the sound signature.. because I listen lot of genres ... I like it more then the kz zs6 atm... I hope this helps





Slater said:


> Yes, it sounds like you definitely have the new version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@Slater i tried to pull out the nozzle "cage" which i'm attaching the pic, but i can't find a way to put it out, i don't have any instrument to do that.

@zazaboy and even @Slater i saw ThePhonograph (don't wanna promote that site) made a review about the ate, saying mids sound recessed and sometimes harsh, sub bass isn't a lot present and bass bleeds onto mid frequencies, and they even wrote highs are not detailed and you can't feel the definition on the trebles.

What do you think about it? Thought ate was a well balanced iem.
I even saw hd9 was reviewed but i've read it has boosted trebles which i don't like actually.
Just wanna try something under 10 euros that sounds probably better and more clear/balanced on the spectrum than my memt x5.


----------



## nxnje

I meant this @Slater


----------



## bsoplinger

Strat Rider said:


> … Just to stay on topic, I just modded a new pair of ZS6 with poster tack over one BA. Treble doesn't bother me. Just Curious.


Are you saying that the level of the unmodified ZS6 didn't bother you but you did the mod because you were curious? Or that you did the mod and now the treble doesn't bother you?


----------



## groucho69

oyobass said:


> I'm waiting for people to tell me how wrong my impressions are, lol.



OK wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong..... happy now?


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 22, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> This seems like a slightly shortsighted reply. KZ has pretty much always been about quantity, having tons of models on the shelves. Often lots of redundancy across a few signature types, usually set within unique shells or variants. Right now they still have well over 10 models readily available for purchase, most of which were released within the last year or two. All the new models coming up are right in line with what they've done in the past, just now with hybrid tech that they've been testing and tweaking with the ZST, ES3, ZS5/6 and ZSR. The biggest difference I see is they've actually announced a plan, unlike before where they would seemingly at random release new models with maybe some leaked info getting out before the model dropped. If anything, announcing all those new models simultaneously could be great for generating early interest.
> 
> Considering most of them are 1+1 hybrids, prices are probably going to still be quite low which will continue to attend to their bread-and-butter market. And, going more upscale with other models has been EXACTLY what people have been asking for for years. Just peruse this thread. First it was hybrids. We've got that now. Then it was something pricier and more upscale, but still affordable. The ZS6 was a good go at it. The ZS10 might be just the thing though given its a 5 driver hybrid with a crossover. I'm personally looking forward to seeing what they do with this new lineup and will be reserving judgment till I try them out for myself. They could be a horrendous abomination, sure, but they could also be amazing.
> 
> ...


I don't think we are that far apart.

First, I keep on repeating the the best earphone is many earphones - but they don't have to come all from a single manufacturer. KZ has been rolling out much of the same in short order: ZS3, ZST, ES3 (made obsolete by the much better ZSR)...followed by a jump in price level with the ZS5 and ZS6 (both with flaws for the ears of many). Yes, they were reasonably cheap but they created some redundancies: there is not much difference between the ES3 and the ZST, for example. OK, collectors may love that (and I have no regrets either) but there comes a point of saturation for such people, who buy KZs mainly for the listening pleasure, as Coil pointed out. The difference now it that KZ rev up a notch and release 10 models simultaneously (instead of one), again more of the same, or, in your words 1 + 1 hybrids. Which means more, more, more...Not sure whether this is a well-defined plan other than getting fans to buy them all impulsively. Others may simply lose the overview.

Second, their plastics are good and it was not claimed otherwise. But the ZS6 had that premium sparkle with their aluminium housings, which was a step up. You essentially said the same in different words.

Third, let's wait and see how upscale they will go. Again, we are sitting in the same boat here.

Fourth, it is good to have some benchmark earphones, at least one. Great for comparison purposes. Benchmark and Chifi don't exclude each other, they are complimentary. I think we agree on this one, too.I still love my EDR1.

Fifth, you get some/much of your gear for free for review purposes. Makes the buying decision easier...and the (KZ) collection cheaper.

I hope this sounds less shortsighted now


----------



## oyobass

groucho69 said:


> OK wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong..... happy now?


----------



## Strat Rider (Mar 22, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Are you saying that the level of the unmodified ZS6 didn't bother you but you did the mod because you were curious? Or that you did the mod and now the treble doesn't bother you?


That's what happens when I post from work. (Perpetuate Unclear and disconnected thoughts) After reading and seeing the mods from master modder @Slater, and others.

 I am not "bothered" by the unmodified BA, but thought it might sound more refined with music that has highs such as jazz trumpets, cymbals, primarily brass instruments.

I used the tack instead of permanent adhesive (since unlike Slater, I am more coward, than fearless).


----------



## Adide

Just reminding the rules of the game here: until KZ decides to step in the 21st century and get a website, customer service/call center (oh my!), proper QC, official representatives on well known forums, adequate communication through the usual online channels etc. expect only products in the <$50 range that you could pay for without to much remorse and easily trash if you get a dud. With minimal packaging.

They won't step farther that line because people paying more than that will have different expectations.

So until then you can anticipate pretty much the same game of experimentation with the occasional gem thrown in (more or less accidentally) with inconsistent reports due to sketchy QC. And cross your fingers to get a good one if most reports are favorable.

You know this in your heart, embrace it, don't feel betrayed or mistreated. I for one hope that ZS10 will be a blast because I want a cheap 4BA+ iem, but I'm not holding my breath.

KZ was the first proper IEM for many here, it's just unfortunate they don't want to step up their game, the choice is theirs it's just that we don't need to be passionate about it. KZ still wants to play in the little league for the time being.

Cheers.


----------



## vladstef

Adide said:


> Just reminding the rules of the game here: until KZ decides to step in the 21st century and get a website, customer service/call center (oh my!), proper QC, official representatives on well known forums, adequate communication through the usual online channels etc. expect only products in the <$50 range that you could pay for without to much remorse and easily trash if you get a dud. With minimal packaging.
> 
> They won't step farther that line because people paying more than that will have different expectations.
> 
> ...



You are absolutely right - you can't be 100% sure with KZ.

When it comes to ZS10, I am getting 2 units and I will order iMM-6, which might give us some idea about frequency response as well as consistency between 2 units (*from the same batch). First I'll have to figure out how to get consistent results, so I assume that people will do this before I get to, but I will post here for sure.
As far as I can tell, ZS5 and ZS6 units have a consistent performance even in treble region so I hope that ZS10 will follow (though 5 drivers on each side are going to introduce some inconsistencies regardless).


----------



## Adide

vladstef said:


> As far as I can tell, ZS5 and ZS6 units have a consistent performance



Pretty much skeptical about ZS5(v1) part. I agree it's a bitchy iem with absurd low impedance which shines only with proper sources but people feeding it right still keep reporting sucked out, nasal, hollow and unnatural mids that I don't get with mine. Don't start me with the ZS5v2 incident but we already agreed not to be passionate about it.


----------



## Slater (Mar 22, 2018)

nxnje said:


> @Slater i tried to pull out the nozzle "cage" which i'm attaching the pic, but i can't find a way to put it out, i don't have any instrument to do that.



Here, this should help. Basically, the only "tool" you need is something sharp, like a sewing needle, hat pin, syringe needle, thumb tack, etc. You can even use a small paper clip that you unbend and sand the end into a sharp point. A sewing needle works best, and you can buy a whole big pack of them for under $1.

1). Remove the ear tip from the Xiaomi, and use your sharp object to gently lift the stainless nozzle screen from the edge. The sticky adhesive that holds it down is not that strong, so it will lift up without any trouble. Temporarily set aside the metal nozzle screen on something that it won't permanently stick to, like a piece of wax paper, or a piece of glass, or a piece of plastic.




2). Now down inside of the nozzle, you will see a piece of black foam. Just use your sharp object to pull out the foam piece. You can also use tweezers if you want. You only need to grab the foam piece by the very edge - *don't* jab the pointy object way down into the nozzle or you risk damaging the driver.



3). Now that you have the foam piece removed, take your metal screen from your temporary holding place (ie piece of wax paper etc), and use the point of the sharp object to hold it:



4). Now line it back up with the center of the IEM nozzle, hold it down with your finger, and slide it off onto the nozzle. Make sure it is perfectly centered, and not installed crooked. GENTLY push down on the nozzle with your finger to get the adhesive to stick all the way.



5). Repeat the procedure for the other side, and enjoy!

_Also, just so this stays on topic for this thread, this is the exact same procedure to do the "Slater mod" to the KZ ZS3._



nxnje said:


> @zazaboy and even @Slater i saw ThePhonograph (don't wanna promote that site) made a review about the ate, saying mids sound recessed and sometimes harsh, sub bass isn't a lot present and bass bleeds onto mid frequencies, and they even wrote highs are not detailed and you can't feel the definition on the trebles.
> 
> What do you think about it? Thought ate was a well balanced iem.
> I even saw hd9 was reviewed but i've read it has boosted trebles which i don't like actually.
> Just wanna try something under 10 euros that sounds probably better and more clear/balanced on the spectrum than my memt x5.



I wouldn't worry too much about that. Everyone's ears are different - as long as you like it that's all that really matters in the end.

If you want to try something under $10 that is "balanced" compared to the MEMT X5, I would recommend the KZ EDR2. It's a great IEM, and leans more towards neutral than the MEMT X5. Also the KZ HDS3 would be a good option as well. Both are available for between $4-$7.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 22, 2018)

Adide said:


> Pretty much skeptical about ZS5(v1) part. I agree it's a bitchy iem with absurd low impedance which shines only with proper sources but people feeding it right still keep reporting sucked out, nasal, hollow and unnatural mids that I don't get with mine. Don't start me with the ZS5v2 incident but we already agreed not to be passionate about it.


iPhone has low impedance, audioquest dragonfly has low impedance, macbook has low impedance. I got all the proper sources...but prefer the ZSR


----------



## vladstef

Adide said:


> Pretty much skeptical about ZS5(v1) part. I agree it's a bitchy iem with absurd low impedance which shines only with proper sources but people feeding it right still keep reporting sucked out, nasal, hollow and unnatural mids that I don't get with mine. Don't start me with the ZS5v2 incident but we already agreed not to be passionate about it.



V2 wasn't an incident, just bad business model. When it comes to ZS5v1, that thing is just very source dependent due to the way its drivers are connected and crazy low impedance. Regardless - we are talking about QC and how similar units are - good or bad sounding, they must be closely matched between units/batches otherwise all talks are pointless. KZ's latest units aren't terrible when it comes to this, in fact, look at @Slater and his experience with ZS6 green and gray units - they are very consistent. This means that KZ is doing ok when it comes to driver performance, glue and seal of dynamic drivers, size of vent holes etc. There were a couple reports where BAs in the nozzle were touching metal cover on the nozzle, but that's about it.


----------



## Slater (Mar 22, 2018)

vladstef said:


> V2 wasn't an incident, just bad business model. When it comes to ZS5v1, that thing is just very source dependent due to the way its drivers are connected and crazy low impedance. Regardless - we are talking about QC and how similar units are - good or bad sounding, they must be closely matched between units/batches otherwise all talks are pointless. KZ's latest units aren't terrible when it comes to this, in fact, look at @Slater and his experience with ZS6 green and gray units - they are very consistent. This means that KZ is doing ok when it comes to driver performance, glue and seal of dynamic drivers, size of vent holes etc. There were a couple reports where BAs in the nozzle were touching metal cover on the nozzle, but that's about it.



Not just grey and green, but multiple red, and blacks too (I just never posted all of the graphs). I've measured numerous ZS6 now, and they have all measured near identical to one another. No channel imbalances, no bad drivers, no internal mis-wirings, no BAs touching nozzle screens, etc.

That's really impressive QC IMO.

In fact, the ONLY KZ problem I've had in the last 1.5 years (out of a few dozen KZs) has been the batch of defective ZS3 drivers (which are now resolved).


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> Not just grey and green, but multiple red, and blacks too (I just never posted all of the graphs). I've measured numerous ZS6 now, and they have all measured near identical to one another. No channel imbalances, no bad drivers, no internal mis-wirings, no BAs touching nozzle screens, etc.
> 
> That's really impressive QC IMO.
> 
> In fact, the ONLY KZ problem I've had in the last 1.5 years (out of a few dozen KZs) has been the batch of defective ZS3 drivers (which are now resolved).



KZ is doing a good job as of late, especially given the low price and number of units that they are moving. However, there is always a 'but' when we talk about it because their record isn't stellar. First and only KZ items that I've bought were ZS5v1 and silver upgrade cable - cable ended up having  reversed polarity on one side. That was about a year ago and since then the reports of bad QC have been reduced, at least here on the forum. In fact, polarity issues with absolute first batches of ZS5 were probably the last 'big' issue that KZ had as far as I know.


----------



## acia

vladstef said:


> V2 wasn't an incident, just bad business model. When it comes to ZS5v1, that thing is just very source dependent due to the way its drivers are connected and crazy low impedance. Regardless - we are talking about QC and how similar units are - good or bad sounding, they must be closely matched between units/batches otherwise all talks are pointless. KZ's latest units aren't terrible when it comes to this, in fact, look at @Slater and his experience with ZS6 green and gray units - they are very consistent. This means that KZ is doing ok when it comes to driver performance, glue and seal of dynamic drivers, size of vent holes etc. There were a couple reports where BAs in the nozzle were touching metal cover on the nozzle, but that's about it.



yep. i have experience buying several pairs of same models of kz, their QC is pretty consistent.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Here, this should help. Basically, the only "tool" you need is something sharp, like a sewing needle, hat pin, syringe needle, thumb tack, etc. You can even use a small paper clip that you unbend and sand the end into a sharp point. A sewing needle works best, and you can buy a whole big pack of them for under $1.
> 
> 1). Remove the ear tip from the Xiaomi, and use your sharp object to gently lift the stainless nozzle screen from the edge. The sticky adhesive that holds it down is not that strong, so it will lift up without any trouble. Temporarily set aside the metal nozzle screen on something that it won't permanently stick to, like a piece of wax paper, or a piece of glass, or a piece of plastic.
> 
> ...



What would u tip me for having a good bass, clear mids and detailed highs from the one u've tipped me?
Is there one of them that is in your opinion a better bang for the buck?


----------



## snip3r77

CoiL said:


> Guys, with all that money (KZ asking more and still having bad QC, revisions, treble issues, no proper crossover), seriously, keep the money (especially when KZ prices reach around 50$). Rather get something like IT01 which has great QC, great customer support, insanely HQ cable, great HQ build and most important - better SQ than any KZ I`ve owned. There are other great offers around 100$ price tag - King Pro, CH9T etc. which most should give same great value and SQ, all over KZ`s.
> Until KZ gets in the game of graphene drivers and tube-fitted BAs - keep Your money.
> Or, just buy current most favorable KZ by many users and feedback and never return back to head-fi (otherwise You`ll just spend more money).
> 
> ...



I echo what you said. Life is too short to listen to issue prone iem like kz


----------



## vegetaleb

I am gonna grab a pair of ZSR for the AE anniversary , do you know if we can use both 1 and 2$ coupons for one item?
The ZSR cable is the same sticky one like ATES?


----------



## jeromeaparis

nxnje said:


> @Slater i tried to pull out the nozzle "cage" which i'm attaching the pic, but i can't find a way to put it out, i don't have any instrument to do that.
> 
> @zazaboy and even @Slater i saw ThePhonograph (don't wanna promote that site) made a review about the ate, saying mids sound recessed and sometimes harsh, sub bass isn't a lot present and bass bleeds onto mid frequencies, and they even wrote highs are not detailed and you can't feel the definition on the trebles.
> 
> ...



The Ate is one of the very first KZ earphone. The last vesion I have, lacks deep bass, and real trebles. The ZS3 I have, has a much more dynamic sound, with good bass.
The ZST after 80hrs burnin has very good bass, detailed highs  ZSR is even better than the ZST


----------



## CoiL

jeromeaparis said:


> The Ate is one of the very first KZ earphone. *The last vesion I have, lacks deep bass, and real trebles.*


100% disagree! 

When did You get Your ATE? My last 2 ATEs are over month old and saound same (5th gen). 
Seems like You got a bad quality unit... or they have revised ATE again?!? 
Anyway, ATE 5th gen is great single dynamic and very coherent, great in mids with nice open laid-back soundstage. Certainly not lacking deep bass nor natural but detailed treble.


----------



## nxnje

CoiL said:


> 100% disagree!
> 
> When did You get Your ATE? My last 2 ATEs are over month old and saound same (5th gen).
> Seems like You got a bad quality unit... or they have revised ATE again?!?
> Anyway, ATE 5th gen is great single dynamic and very coherent, great in mids with nice open laid-back soundstage. Certainly not lacking deep bass nor natural but detailed treble.



As you see the main problem of chinese cheap manufacturers like kz is that many people have different opinions about the same headphones, which makes me think that chinese companies produce headphones on the go with what they have avaiable, and not always with Standard components and tuning.

Anyway, i think i'm gonna save something to get a zsr, even if i'm not sure it will be comfortable as i tried zs3 and it was freaking uncomfy and big to me.


----------



## Slater (Mar 23, 2018)

nxnje said:


> What would u tip me for having a good bass, clear mids and detailed highs from the one u've tipped me?
> Is there one of them that is in your opinion a better bang for the buck?



Assuming you want a KZ, and you want to keep your budget under $10usd...

If you want more sub bass punch, get the EDR1. It's v-shaped, great for electromic music, hip hop, etc.

If you want something more towards neutral (but not totally flat and boring) - in other words, less sub bass and a little more midrange - get the EDR2, ATE, or HDS3.

If you are willing to spend around $20, then a good KZ option would be the ZSR).

If you want to consider another brand other than KZ, you have some other good choices too:

UiiSii CM5
BGVVP SGZ-DN1 (also known as the NiceHCK Bro)
Urbanfun HiFi
Einsear T2


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Assuming you want a KZ, and you want to keeep your budget under $10usd...
> 
> If you want more sub bass punch, get the EDR1. It's v-shaped, great for electromic music, hip hop, etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot!
Gonna see if prices go down and then i can try picking one of em.
Edr2 heard some bad things while hds3 see good


----------



## Slater (Mar 23, 2018)

CoiL said:


> 100% disagree!
> 
> When did You get Your ATE? My last 2 ATEs are over month old and saound same (5th gen).
> Seems like You got a bad quality unit... or they have revised ATE again?!?
> Anyway, ATE 5th gen is great single dynamic and very coherent, great in mids with nice open laid-back soundstage. Certainly not lacking deep bass nor natural but detailed treble.



Nah, you're right Coil. I recently got a nice factory-fresh ATE and it's as good as always. Still ATE v5 (KZ hasn't changed a thing).

I think many of these ATE problems are people using the crap hard foam tips that come with the ATE (or else not getting a good seal). Those need to be thrown in the garbage can and some better tips used (specifically wide bore tips).


----------



## CoiL

nxnje said:


> As you see the main problem of chinese cheap manufacturers like kz is that many people have different opinions about the same headphones, which makes me think that chinese companies produce headphones on the go with what they have avaiable, and not always with Standard components and tuning.


Yeah... that`s possible and add revisions without notifying ppl, results totally different opinions. But this is KZ...
Glad I have 3 units of 5th gen ATEs as backup (all sounding same) + 1 2nd gen FF-mod.


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## Slater (Mar 23, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Thanks a lot!
> Gonna see if prices go down and then i can try picking one of em.
> Edr2 heard some bad things while hds3 see good



There's always going to be people that say good things about any IEM, and people that say bad things about the same IEM.

We all have different ears, different tastes, listen to different genres of music, and use different sources. All of those factors have an influence on the end result.

Many IEMs sound better when used with an amplifier, and some don't improve at all with an amplifier. Some IEMs sound perfectly fine with a cell phone. Some IEMs sound terrible when used with one specific model of phone, but sound great when used with other phones.

The nice thing about many of these IEMs is that they only cost a few dollars. I mean, the EDR2 is around $4usd. That's what a good cup of coffee costs (outside of Italy of course, as Italy has govt price controls in place for good coffee LOL). The point is that if you can spend $4 to TRY a possibly good IEM, why not? You may end up loving it! And if it turns out that you don't like it at all, give it to a friend or family member or even stranger on the street as a "gift of music".


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Mar 23, 2018)

Slater said:


> There's always going to be people that say good things about any IEM, and people that say bad things about the same IEM.
> 
> *We all have different ears and different tastes.*
> 
> The nice thing about many of these IEMs is that they only cost a few dollars. I mean, the EDR2 is around $4usd. That's what a good cup of coffee costs (outside of Italy of course, as Italy has govt price controls in place for good coffee LOL). The point is that if you can spend $4 to TRY a possibly good IEM, why not? You may end up loving it! And if it turns out that you don't like it at all, give it to a friend or family member or even stranger n the street as a gift.



Amen.

What I love about Chi-fi though is that we can try different sound signatures without having to write a confession to why we killed our wallets.

You can spend your $4 or $6 or $10 and actually find a sound signature that YOU like.

PS. Actually interested in HDS3 lol, might have to snag one.

PPS: It looks like I won't be hanging onto the TRN v20 after all, so if anyone wants them after I finish my review then DM me. I'd prefer to send within the EU.


----------



## Slater

Lifted Andreas said:


> PS. Actually interested in HDS3 lol, might have to snag one.



HDS3 has a great soundstage. It is an older model of KZ, but is very underrated. It has a somewhat unique sound in the KZ lineup. Every time I use mine, it pits a smile on my face and a spring in my step. Plus they are so tiny - you will wonder how they got such good sound out of something so small!


----------



## nxnje

I'm curious to know something atm after all, assuming i will sure try something cheap from what you've just tipped me.

Is there any super cheap IEM like the fonge t01 price, that shares the same shape as the zsr?
That would be great as i could pick it and see if the shape is ok and then spending more for the zsr which i've heard and read that sounds lovely pratically everywhere in the spectrum.


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Mar 23, 2018)

Slater said:


> HDS3 has a great soundstage. It is an older model of KZ, but is very underrated. It has a somewhat unique sound in the KZ lineup. Every time I use mine, it pits a smile on my face and a spring in my step. Plus they are so tiny - you will wonder how they got such good sound out of something so small!



Very intrigued, always been a fan of smaller IEMs in general. I see the HDS3 were released in 2015 lol

For some reason KZ store on Ali doesn't dispatch them from China anymore so I cant get them (at least not from KZ). RIP


----------



## nxnje

You can buy them from a third seller maybe



Lifted Andreas said:


> Very intrigued, always been a fan of smaller IEMs in general. I see the HDS3 were released in 2015 lol
> 
> For some reason KZ store on Ali doesn't dispatch them from China anymore so I cant get them. RIP


----------



## Slater (Mar 23, 2018)

nxnje said:


> I'm curious to know something atm after all, assuming i will sure try something cheap from what you've just tipped me.
> 
> Is there any super cheap IEM like the fonge t01 price, that shares the same shape as the zsr?
> That would be great as i could pick it and see if the shape is ok and then spending more for the zsr which i've heard and read that sounds lovely pratically everywhere in the spectrum.



My Fonge fell apart after just a few uses. I can not recommend it at all.

For the same cost as the Fonge, the KZ EDR1, EDR2, and ATE all leave the Fonge in the dust as far as sound and build quallity.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> My Fonge fell apart after just a few uses. I can not recommend it at all.
> 
> Foe the same cost as the Fonge, the KZ EDR1, EDR2, and ATE all leave the Fonge in the dust as far as sound and build quallity.



Nonono i mean in the fonge t01 price range if there is something that shares the same shape of the zsr! In that way i can maybe try one and then if i find it comfortable i can bring up my budget to a zsr.

I've already read time ago u shared ur opinion and the fonge t01 and it wasn't absolutely positive


----------



## Slater (Mar 23, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Nonono i mean in the fonge t01 price range if there is something that shares the same shape of the zsr! In that way i can maybe try one and then if i find it comfortable i can bring up my budget to a zsr.
> 
> I've already read time ago u shared ur opinion and the fonge t01 and it wasn't absolutely positive



ZSR has a somewhat unique shape. Just because the Fonge would fit you, it does not mean the ZSR would fit the same way. The same as the KZ ZST or ZS3. They are all slightly unique shape that fit most people just fine, but some people they don't fit well. Or for example, the ZS3 fits me great but doesn't fit my brother.

If you want something cheaper than the ZSR, but with that "custom IEM" looking shape AND great sound, try the NiceHCK Bro. It is only $14 during the Aliexpress sale in a few days. I was just using them last night, and the sound is close to the ZSR for half the price. It's like the ZSR's little brother


----------



## Lifted Andreas

nxnje said:


> You can buy them from a third seller maybe



Yeah I'm gonna wait till the sale and see which is cheapest basically.


----------



## Slater

Lifted Andreas said:


> Yeah I'm gonna wait till the sale and see which is cheapest basically.



Or check ebay. Often they have harder to find IEMs, often at cheaper prices than Aliexpress.

For example, there's an HDS3 on there right now for $9.99, which is around what it is selling for on Aliexpress.


----------



## Nikostr8 (Mar 23, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> Amen.
> 
> What I love about Chi-fi though is that we can try different sound signatures without having to write a confession to why we killed our wallets.
> 
> ...


What happened to trn v20? Tought you like it a lot


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Slater said:


> Or check ebay. Often they have harder to find IEMs, often at cheaper prices than Aliexpress.
> 
> For example, there's an HDS3 on there right now for $9.99, which is around what it is selling for on Aliexpress.



Aight man I'll check it out, last IEM I bought on eBay was the Zero Audio Carbo Tenore (may they rest in peace) 




Nikostr8 said:


> What happened toto trn v20? Tought you like ir a lot



Its more than like, I love them. However, the fit is too much of a hassle for me.

I feel like there are others out there who they would be more suitable for.


----------



## trumpethead

B9Scrambler said:


> This seems like a slightly shortsighted reply. KZ has pretty much always been about quantity, having tons of models on the shelves. Often lots of redundancy across a few signature types, usually set within unique shells or variants. Right now they still have well over 10 models readily available for purchase, most of which were released within the last year or two. All the new models coming up are right in line with what they've done in the past, just now with hybrid tech that they've been testing and tweaking with the ZST, ES3, ZS5/6 and ZSR. The biggest difference I see is they've actually announced a plan, unlike before where they would seemingly at random release new models with maybe some leaked info getting out before the model dropped. If anything, announcing all those new models simultaneously could be great for generating early interest.
> 
> Considering most of them are 1+1 hybrids, prices are probably going to still be quite low which will continue to attend to their bread-and-butter market. And, going more upscale with other models has been EXACTLY what people have been asking for for years. Just peruse this thread. First it was hybrids. We've got that now. Then it was something pricier and more upscale, but still affordable. The ZS6 was a good go at it. The ZS10 might be just the thing though given its a 5 driver hybrid with a crossover. I'm personally looking forward to seeing what they do with this new lineup and will be reserving judgment till I try them out for myself. They could be a horrendous abomination, sure, but they could also be amazing.
> 
> ...



I agree...


----------



## rikk009

Any impressions/reviews on ZS10 yet?


----------



## Lifted Andreas

rikk009 said:


> Any impressions/reviews on ZS10 yet?



It's not been released yet. So no lol


----------



## oyobass

rikk009 said:


> Any impressions/reviews on ZS10 yet?


From what I understand, vendors won't have it until the 30th.


----------



## trumpethead

Strat Rider said:


> I wasn't even near the fence let alone straddling it. BUT after the positive talk of an iem not named KZ, in a KZ thread, i just pushed the Amazon Prime, button...they will arrive on Sunday



You will not regret it.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

My CM5 have been dispatched. Let's hope they don't take 2 weeks to arrive like it says. :/


----------



## oyobass

Lifted Andreas said:


> My CM5 have been dispatched. Let's hope they don't take 2 weeks to arrive like it says. :/


" A watched kettle never boils", an adage I often ignore, whilst clicking the refresh button on the shipping status several times a day, (or hour, lol.)


----------



## oyobass (Mar 23, 2018)

I know we have a lot of electronic music fans in the KZ thread, so I thought I would share another source of fresh material:

The KVR One Synth Challenge. Competitors are challenged to create the best music they can using a single synth plugin. Prizes are given for the top creations.

Click on the links in the blue column on the left to access the tunes submitted for a particular month/synth. Most of the tunes are quite good, some are amazing.

Enjoy!

Edit: The tracks have not been added to the first few entries in the left-hand column until the OSC 104: Zebralette entry.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 23, 2018)

CoiL said:


> 100% disagree!
> 
> When did You get Your ATE? My last 2 ATEs are over month old and saound same (5th gen).
> Seems like You got a bad quality unit... or they have revised ATE again?!?
> Anyway, ATE 5th gen is great single dynamic and very coherent, great in mids with nice open laid-back soundstage. Certainly not lacking deep bass nor natural but detailed treble.


Same here! I actually never had a bad KZ earphone, i.e. one that didn't sound as described in reviews or was faulty. In fact, I never had any bad Chifi apple other than a few minor cosmetic flaws (scratched metal housings on a Boarseman and Tennmak). And I always loved my ATR [hey, we agree on this one ]. Should I try a "fresh" ATE or would it be the same as my mid-2017 ATR?


----------



## s2kPanda

Don't know if this has been posted earlier but I couldn't find a link.

Here's a pretty good presale price for the KZ ZS10.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...phones-With-Original-package/32858204507.html


----------



## Lifted Andreas

oyobass said:


> " A watched kettle never boils", an adage I often ignore, whilst clicking the refresh button on the shipping status several times a day, (or hour, lol.)



I'm glad that I'm not alone in this. LOL


----------



## oyobass

Lifted Andreas said:


> I'm glad that I'm not alone in this. LOL


Like waiting for Christmas multiple times a year...


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 23, 2018)

just curious but who is gonna buy the kz zs10 before the reviews? or we gonna wait for the big next thing


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 23, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> Very intrigued, always been a fan of smaller IEMs in general. I see the HDS3 were released in 2015 lol
> 
> For some reason KZ store on Ali doesn't dispatch them from China anymore so I cant get them (at least not from KZ). RIP



No reason to fret. 



 

Just as the HDS3 heads into retirement the ZSR bursts onto the scene. 

 

The ZSR  "IS" the HDS3 reinvented with improved clarity, resolution,  separation and layering. 

I spent the last two hours comparing the two (HDS3 & ZSR) and to my ears it is the same sound signature with better dynamics across the board.

Thus far:
the ZSR is the HDS3 sound signature with better dynamics across the board.
the ZS6 is the ED3 "Perfection" sound signature with better dynamics across the board.

My hope is....
the ZS10 will be the HDS1 sound signature with better dynamics across the board as well. 
The sound signature of the HDS1 is as follows:


 
Regarding the ZS10:
2 high frequency BA's should give high frequencies a rich & forward presentation. 
2 midrange frequency BA's should give midrange frequencies a rich & forward presentation. 
The only ingredient to complete the HDS1 sound signature is the ZST's fast 8mm DD. 
That should mean "no mid-bass bleed" into the lower midrange and a clean presentation. 




In closing I'll say this. Despite KZ's flaws of not properly identifying modifications to existing models and the occasional  quality control issues  (ES3...anyone?) I find the argument that claims that "Knowledge Zenith has lost focus by introducing too many models all at once" is an argument without merit. My aforementioned comments about inherited tuning (HDS3-to-ZSR & "Perfection"-to-ZS6) proves focus and planning. Releasing multiple models in short spurts has always worked for Knowledge Zenith in the past, though some models suffered from the lack of attention, but "if it ain't broke......"

At any rate, I am thoroughly looking forward to the ZS10 and codename YZ49.


----------



## themindfreak

vegetaleb said:


> I am gonna grab a pair of ZSR for the AE anniversary , do you know if we can use both 1 and 2$ coupons for one item?
> The ZSR cable is the same sticky one like ATES?


No, even though the cable has same rubbery feel on the older models they apparently managed to remove the stickiness


----------



## Lifted Andreas

DocHoliday said:


> No reason to fret.
> 
> 
> Just as the HDS3 heads into retirement the ZSR bursts onto the scene.
> ...



But that awesome, tiny shape!

Why oh why did they not just stick with it? 

The ZSR look absolutely huge, compared to the HDS3.


----------



## themindfreak

zazaboy said:


> just curious but who is gonna buy the kz zs10 before the reviews? or we gonna wait for the big next thing


1 or 2 people in the last few pages said they have already ordered and they seem pretty active in this thread. I'm still in the midst of considering to buy it :/


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 23, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> But that awesome, tiny shape!
> 
> Why oh why did they not just stick with it?
> 
> The ZSR look absolutely huge, compared to the HDS3.



I imagine it has to do with KZ making the best use of their manufacturing facilities. 

To my ears the soundstage is nearly equivalent between the two, but the ZSR's ability to improve resolution, clarity and layering give the soundstage more definition. The HDS3's always had a near holographic presentation to my ears, which was just astounding for such a tiny semi-open $6 in-ear monitor. 

The keys to unlock the HDS3's potential are:
1)  sufficient power/juice
2) a silicone eartip that is firmly affixed to the nozzle 
3) an airtight seal with your ear canal. 

If you forego ANY of those three prerequisites you will miss the HDS3's brilliance. 
1) Forget about using them with a power-efficient source because you will lose the impact of the lower frequencies and the HDS3 will sound anemic. 
2) If the eartip is loose in any way on the nozzle the HDS3 will sound anemic & tinny. 
3) If you do not have an airtight seal in your ear canal the HDS3 will sound anemic & tinny. 

In my opinion the three most competent old skool KZ's (HDS1, ED3 "Perfection" & HDS3) did not receive as much attention as the "fun" sounding IEMs that KZ released. Some of us recognized their brilliance and as a result have enjoyed them for a few years. The HDS3 was my go-to IEM for a long time. I have multiple pairs because they are tiny and somewhat fragile, like the Carbo Tenore was/is.

Now that the ZSR is here 'tis very likely that I will stock almost every color when they are finally available. It's my favorite sound signature.

As I am writing this I am comparing the ZSR and HDS3 with this track: 


By the way, if anyone has a set of HDS2's that you are willing to part with, please PM me and maybe we can work out a trade or sale. Thanks.

HDS2


----------



## Slater (Mar 23, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The ZSR "IS" the HDS3 reinvented with improved clarity, resolution,  separation and layering.
> 
> I spent the last two hours comparing the two (HDS3 & ZSR) and to my ears it is the same sound signature with better dynamics across the board.



Yeah, I buy that. Good observation Doc


----------



## bhazard

For $12 I'll give the CM5 a shot while waiting on the ZS10.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

bhazard said:


> For $12 I'll give the CM5 a shot while waiting on the ZS10.



"Looks into the future and foresees many CM5 reviews on the horizon."


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm for one glad that @mbwilson111 made me aware of the CM5 as I rather like mine


----------



## TLDRonin

zazaboy said:


> just curious but who is gonna buy the kz zs10 before the reviews? or we gonna wait for the big next thing


The ZS10 is the "next big thing"


----------



## charlescc2

Has there been any word of the expected pricing of the ZS10?  Anything like the ZSR where there were different prices through different dates?  I'm wondering if I should hop in on ~$33 pre-sale price or wait it out (not worried about getting it before reviews).


----------



## Wiljen (Mar 23, 2018)

I've got one on order,  the last few have been worth taking the chance on it.  It will surprise me if it can displace my current daily drivers (Magaosi K5 and Brainwavz b400) but it could happen and that alone makes it worth a shot.   I'm really interested in the new Metal Shell Zs6 variation as if it does for the Zs6 what they did with the Zsr signature it will be a helluva deal at $30.   Zsr sound which is 85-90% of B400 and a shell that is 85% of a CA Orion for less than 25% of the price of either.  -  What is not to love?


----------



## Otto Motor

bhazard said:


> For $12 I'll give the CM5 a shot while waiting on the ZS10.


Where do you get the CM5 for $12?


----------



## oyobass (Mar 23, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Where do you get the CM5 for $12?


Amazon US. Only in the large size.


----------



## MDH12AX7

I ordered the CM5 yesterday as well.... $11.99 on Amazon with Prime was too good  to pass up after all the write up on it here lately.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I'm for one glad that @mbwilson111 made me aware of the CM5 as I rather like mine



Yeah, her husband sure must be one lucky guy lol


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 23, 2018)

Due to the high number of references to the UiiSii CM5 I have opened a UiiSii appreciation thread. Feel free to add it to the list of threads that you visit frequently. 

UiiSii has made several in-ear monitors (CM5, HM7, US90, Hi-905, Hi-805, etc.) that deserve more attention than they are getting and my hope is that perhaps your enthusiasm expressed in a dedicated thread will inspire UiiSii to up their game and become a full-fledged price-to-performance competitor to our beloved KZ.

Fierce competition is better for all involved. Perhaps KZ will endeavour to cross every "T" and dot every "I" before introducing modified models to the marketplace if they know a worthy competitor is nipping at their heels.



 

The UiiSii thread can be found here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/uiisii-impressions-thread.875466/

Have fun with it!

DocHolliday


----------



## paulindss

DocHoliday said:


> Due to the high number of references to the UiiSii CM5 I have opened a UiiSii appreciation thread. Feel free to add it to the list of threads that you visit frequently.
> 
> UiiSii has made several in-ear monitors (CM5, HM7, US90, Hi-905, Hi-805, etc.) that deserve more attention than they are getting and my hope is that perhaps your enthusiasm expressed in a dedicated thread will inspire UiiSii to up their game and become a full-fledged price-to-performance competitor to our beloved KZ.
> 
> ...


Uissi is a Very interesting Brand. Everything they do have a nicer feel of quality than KZ. The hm7 for example. Super sturdy. Original designs, Nicer packages etc.


----------



## snip3r77

zazaboy said:


> just curious but who is gonna buy the kz zs10 before the reviews? or we gonna wait for the big next thing



Pls buy and let us know how sharp it is and how to tweak it. TYVM.


----------



## bsoplinger

Lifted Andreas said:


> Very intrigued, always been a fan of smaller IEMs in general. I see the HDS3 were released in 2015 lol
> 
> For some reason KZ store on Ali doesn't dispatch them from China anymore so I cant get them (at least not from KZ). RIP


I'm quite a few posts behind so someone else may have mentioned. If you're in USA the Amazon Prime price of $10 matches the price from AliExpress sellers other than the official KZ store who do ship to the USA.


----------



## Slater (Mar 23, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> Very intrigued, always been a fan of smaller IEMs in general. I see the HDS3 were released in 2015 lol
> 
> For some reason KZ store on Ali doesn't dispatch them from China anymore so I cant get them (at least not from KZ). RIP





bsoplinger said:


> I'm quite a few posts behind so someone else may have mentioned. If you're in USA the Amazon Prime price of $10 matches the price from AliExpress sellers other than the official KZ store who do ship to the USA.



The fact that the HDS3 is getting so hard to find means that it's the next KZ to be gone forever. We all watched the same thing happen with the ANV, HDS2, ZS5 v1, Micro Ring, ZS1 v1, ZN1 (with amp), and countless other KZs.

I predict the EDR1 will be the next to be gone forever (after the HDS3). The EDR1 price won't be $4 forever - it will go up in price as it gets harder and harder to find. Then one day it will just be gone for good just like the other before it.

The point is, if you are even remotely on the fence about old (good) models like the HDS3 and/or EDR1, get them now while you still can. Because once they're gone, they're gone for good (unless some collectors sell theirs).


----------



## oyobass

DocHoliday said:


> Due to the high number of references to the UiiSii CM5 I have opened a UiiSii appreciation thread. Feel free to add it to the list of threads that you visit frequently.
> 
> UiiSii has made several in-ear monitors (CM5, HM7, US90, Hi-905, Hi-805, etc.) that deserve more attention than they are getting and my hope is that perhaps your enthusiasm expressed in a dedicated thread will inspire UiiSii to up their game and become a full-fledged price-to-performance competitor to our beloved KZ.
> 
> ...


I'm in! Thanks.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> The fact that the HDS3 is getting so hard to find means that it's the next KZ to be gone forever. We all watched the same thing happen with the ANV, HDS2, ZS5 v1, Micro Ring, ZS1 v1, ZN1 (with amp), and countless other KZs.
> 
> I predict the EDR1 will be the next to be gone forever (after the HDS3). The EDR1 price won't be $4 forever - it will go up in price as it gets harder and harder to find. Then one day it will just be gone for good just like the other before it.
> 
> The point is, if you are even remotely on the fence about old (good) models like the HDS3 and/or EDR1, get them now while you still can. Because once they're gone, they're gone for good (unless some collectors sell theirs).


I've been debating getting a 2nd pair because they are so small yet give me a decent sound making them great for napping and sleeping.

At home with the unique way I sleep and the pillows I use I can sleep with monsters like the KZ ZS6 or ZSR, iBasso IT01, LZ A4 etc so its sort of a non issue. But assuming my health improves to where I can travel again those tiny things appeal. But then there is the upcoming 'sale' this weekend where that same $10 could buy something else to try or go towards a more expensive offering.


----------



## Slater (Mar 24, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I've been debating getting a 2nd pair because they are so small yet give me a decent sound making them great for napping and sleeping.
> 
> At home with the unique way I sleep and the pillows I use I can sleep with monsters like the KZ ZS6 or ZSR, iBasso IT01, LZ A4 etc so its sort of a non issue. But assuming my health improves to where I can travel again those tiny things appeal. But then there is the upcoming 'sale' this weekend where that same $10 could buy something else to try or go towards a more expensive offering.



Yup, decisions decisions.

I have been waffling back and forth trying to decide what I want; adding things to my cart only to delete them a day later (and add different things to my cart).

1st world problems, right LOL


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 24, 2018)

oyobass said:


> I'm in! Thanks.




No problem.  If UiiSii is as good as people report then the thread should hold it's own.

When I see how many models UiiSii has released over the past two years I reckon they are KZ's closest competition when I consider a company's ability to keep up with strong demand without be strangled by the lack of working capital. If the company is managed properly they should be able to increase their market share and compete with KZ, otherwise there will continue to be a one-hit-wonder every six months and KZ will go practically unchallenged. Maybe they're happy to be where they are but hopefully, UiiSii will rise to the occasion and bring more exceptional models to the marketplace.

I purchased the US90 about two years ago and the Hi-905 about six months ago. The US90 was comparable to KZ's price-to-performance ratios, but the Hi-905 was questionable at $50. Going from memory the US90 was comparable to the ED3 "Acme", but I remember the "Acme having better noise isolation. I'd love to see UiiSii take another crack at it by competing against the ZSR, especially if they can do it with a single graphene dynamic driver.

At any rate, if CM5 owners are enthusiastic enough then the thread should be off to a great start as the impressions and reports come in, but if the CM5 is a one-hit-wonder the thread will probably stall and die.   

Time is either an enemy or a friend so keep a watchful eye.


----------



## Saoshyant

I’ll refresh my memory of The Uiisii earbud, but memories of it are lackluster.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

bsoplinger said:


> I'm quite a few posts behind so someone else may have mentioned. If you're in USA the Amazon Prime price of $10 matches the price from AliExpress sellers other than the official KZ store who do ship to the USA.



Ah its okay mate no rush, I will probably pick up a pair of the HDS3 during the anniversary sale. 



Slater said:


> The fact that the HDS3 is getting so hard to find means that it's the next KZ to be gone forever. We all watched the same thing happen with the ANV, HDS2, ZS5 v1, Micro Ring, ZS1 v1, ZN1 (with amp), and countless other KZs.
> 
> I predict the EDR1 will be the next to be gone forever (after the HDS3). The EDR1 price won't be $4 forever - it will go up in price as it gets harder and harder to find. Then one day it will just be gone for good just like the other before it.
> 
> The point is, if you are even remotely on the fence about old (good) models like the HDS3 and/or EDR1, get them now while you still can. Because once they're gone, they're gone for good (unless some collectors sell theirs).



Yeah I think it's totally worth picking up during the sale, especially considering its the smallest IEM KZ ever made. 




bsoplinger said:


> I've been debating getting a 2nd pair because they are so small yet give me a decent sound making them great for napping and sleeping.
> 
> At home with the unique way I sleep and the pillows I use I can sleep with monsters like the KZ ZS6 or ZSR, iBasso IT01, LZ A4 etc so its sort of a non issue. But assuming my health improves to where I can travel again those tiny things appeal. But then there is the upcoming 'sale' this weekend where that same $10 could buy something else to try or go towards a more expensive offering.



Yeah I wanna get some just for that purpose, I've been recently using ED9 and  sometimes the Eph-100 for listening when I'm in bed but the HDS3 looks like it will be even more suitable. 




Saoshyant said:


> I’ll refresh my memory of The Uiisii earbud, but memories of it are lackluster.



Please let us know if you remember anything.


----------



## GamerGuppy

Received my first KZ earphone, the ZS6, yesterday. I followed this thread occasionally the past few weeks and was a bit dissapointed to learn that just after I ordered my black ZS6, the gray one received a nozzle lip update. However, as you can see in the picture below, my black KZ also has a nozzle lip. I got lucky I guess .

So far I am quite impressed with the soundstage and detail. I mostly use in-ears whenever I am on-the-go and feel it is not safe to bring my more expensive Oppo PM3's. Quite a few in-ears already got KIA, and for this purpose I mostly searched for relatively cheap IEMs like the Senns CX 300 II. These were not really detailed and maybe a little too bassy for my preference. I am therefore very happy with my purchase of the ZS6s which are roughly the same costs with upgraded cable and foam ear-tips.

I might be looking for a 'side-(up)grade' IEM too, perhaps for when I'm running. Maybe the ZSR? Anyone got advise? At home I mostly listen through Senn HD650s and occasionally use my Beyer DT770s when there is a lot of noise in the house.


----------



## oyobass

GamerGuppy said:


> Received my first KZ earphone, the ZS6, yesterday. I followed this thread occasionally the past few weeks and was a bit dissapointed to learn that just after I ordered my black ZS6, the gray one received a nozzle lip update. However, as you can see in the picture below, my black KZ also has a nozzle lip. I got lucky I guess .
> 
> So far I am quite impressed with the soundstage and detail. I mostly use in-ears whenever I am on-the-go and feel it is not safe to bring my more expensive Oppo PM3's. Quite a few in-ears already got KIA, and for this purpose I mostly searched for relatively cheap IEMs like the Senns CX 300 II. These were not really detailed and maybe a little too bassy for my preference. I am therefore very happy with my purchase of the ZS6s which are roughly the same costs with upgraded cable and foam ear-tips.
> 
> I might be looking for a 'side-(up)grade' IEM too, perhaps for when I'm running. Maybe the ZSR? Anyone got advise? At home I mostly listen through Senn HD650s and occasionally use my Beyer DT770s when there is a lot of noise in the house.


Looks like KZ has been listening to comments from users again. The lip may be on all ZS6 production going forward...


----------



## cottonbud

GamerGuppy said:


> Received my first KZ earphone, the ZS6, yesterday. I followed this thread occasionally the past few weeks and was a bit dissapointed to learn that just after I ordered my black ZS6, the gray one received a nozzle lip update. However, as you can see in the picture below, my black KZ also has a nozzle lip. I got lucky I guess .
> 
> So far I am quite impressed with the soundstage and detail. I mostly use in-ears whenever I am on-the-go and feel it is not safe to bring my more expensive Oppo PM3's. Quite a few in-ears already got KIA, and for this purpose I mostly searched for relatively cheap IEMs like the Senns CX 300 II. These were not really detailed and maybe a little too bassy for my preference. I am therefore very happy with my purchase of the ZS6s which are roughly the same costs with upgraded cable and foam ear-tips.
> 
> I might be looking for a 'side-(up)grade' IEM too, perhaps for when I'm running. Maybe the ZSR? Anyone got advise? At home I mostly listen through Senn HD650s and occasionally use my Beyer DT770s when there is a lot of noise in the house.


Where and when did you buy them?


----------



## WildSeven

I love the sound signature of the KS ZS6 so much that I bought another, during 4 weeks of listening to each I noticed while the sound signature is the same but there are slight variation in the 2, liked the sound on the black but loved the red color. The tips are Spinfit CP-100M, I tried comply foam and it did not work with my ear, these Spinfit are so comfy and they seal great.


----------



## Otto Motor

GamerGuppy said:


> I might be looking for a 'side-(up)grade' IEM too, perhaps for when I'm running. Maybe the ZSR? Anyone got advise? At home I mostly listen through Senn HD650s and occasionally use my Beyer DT770s when there is a lot of noise in the house.



Yep, the ZSR would be a good choice: similar to the ES3 and ZST but better in every department and without any obvious flaws such as piercing. Overall less detaiIed however more rounded and less fatiguing than the ZS6. I also have the ZS6 and a similar headphone selection (incl. the HD600 and Beyerdynamic Custom Pro).


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> ZSR has a somewhat unique shape. Just because the Fonge would fit you, it does not mean the ZSR would fit the same way. The same as the KZ ZST or ZS3. They are all slightly unique shape that fit most people just fine, but some people they don't fit well. Or for example, the ZS3 fits me great but doesn't fit my brother.
> 
> If you want something cheaper than the ZSR, but with that "custom IEM" looking shape AND great sound, try the NiceHCK Bro. It is only $14 during the Aliexpress sale in a few days. I was just using them last night, and the sound is close to the ZSR for half the price. It's like the ZSR's little brother



Have you got a link for the NiceHCK Bro as that sounds interesting. Also I have the ZSR and the UiiSii CM5L which are both fantastic for the price.


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> Have you got a link for the NiceHCK Bro as that sounds interesting. Also I have the ZSR and the UiiSii CM5L which are both fantastic for the price.



Not handy, but it comes right up if you go to Aliexpress and type in nicehck bro.

It also goes by 2 other names. But all 3 are identical hardware to one another, just rebrands of one another. They do each include very slightly different eartips though, but are identical in every other way.

They are actually really nice IEMs. Very fun and musical. They have a smooth v-shaped sound, with no sibilance, no piercing treble, nice soundstage, are very comfortable in the ear, and have a nice silver MMCX cable. The sound is very similar to the ZSR, but without the occasional sibilance and odd artificial compressed sound the ZSR has sometimes. It’s like if the ZSR had a brother - the “better” of the 2 brothers - the tall, blond-haired, straight-A, captain of the football team one. What’s not to like about that?

To be honest, I was not expecting much when I received it. But I’ll tell you this - I was pleasantly surprised. Hardly anyone talks about them, but they really are great IEMs for a bargain price.

If you search HeadFi for the Bro, there’s a few others that have tried it and were also shocked by it. Again, there are 3 rebrands of the same exact thing, so I’d just get whichever one is the cheapest.


----------



## PacoBdn

It is curious once again, the different perception we have of sound when it comes to IEMS.

I have both at home, NiceHCK Bro and KZ ZSR, and accepting that the Bro is fine, for me the ZSR is far superior. ZSR has subbass, the Bro does not know them. The mids being very nice in the Bro do not have the detail and the separation of ZSR.
The treble is more relaxed in the Bro, better to hear bad recordings, because the ZSR will show you all the defects of it.

Once again, it could be a different adjustment in each person, differences of the tips...


----------



## B9Scrambler

PacoBdn said:


> It is curious once again, the different perception we have of sound when it comes to IEMS.
> 
> I have both at home, NiceHCK Bro and KZ ZSR, and accepting that the Bro is fine, for me the ZSR is far superior. ZSR has subbass, the Bro does not know them. The mids being very nice in the Bro do not have the detail and the separation of ZSR.
> The treble is more relaxed in the Bro, better to hear bad recordings, because the ZSR will show you all the defects of it.
> ...



I'm 100% with you on this. I have the BGVP version which is just alright.


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2018)

Yup. Also goes by the name BGVP SGZ-DN1.

Audiobudget has reviews on all 3 if anyone wants to read up on them (although I know some people question that site's honesty). But still, it's nice to get another opinion.

https://audiobudget.com/product/BGVP/SGZ-DN1


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2018)

PacoBdn said:


> It is curious once again, the different perception we have of sound when it comes to IEMS.
> 
> I have both at home, NiceHCK Bro and KZ ZSR, and accepting that the Bro is fine, for me the ZSR is far superior. ZSR has subbass, the Bro does not know them. The mids being very nice in the Bro do not have the detail and the separation of ZSR.
> The treble is more relaxed in the Bro, better to hear bad recordings, because the ZSR will show you all the defects of it.
> ...



Yeah, as you said we all have slightly different perceptions. That's why it's good to get more than 1 opinion (or better yet, get an IEM and try it for yourself).

And as you pointed out, they have different strengths - the Bro/SGZ-DN1 version do have better mids and smoother sound (it's more forgiving of lower quality/poor recordings and low end sources such as cell phones). The ZSR has better separation, more detail, clarity, and is more rewarding on higher quality recordings and on better gear.

I did tip roll on mine, and found that getting a good seal and deep insertion using silicone tips is critital. Otherwise, there is no sub bass.

You can see from this FR graph that there's plenty of sub bass (even below 20Hz), although it does start rolling off above that.


----------



## PacoBdn (Mar 24, 2018)

It's funny, because the person who made the measurements also complains about the lack of sub-bass

https://audiobudget.com/product/NICEHCK/Bro

Although as I said before, my problem may be that I have not found the appropriate tips for them.

I will try with the Comply, it could be that with them I get a better seal.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, i'm in a dilema, i currently have the ZST's, but i need another pair of iem's, and i don't know i should get the ZSR's and get one of the following, or just get the ZS6 (throught amazon, fulfilled by so i can get that sweet warranty), or wait for the Z10's, i think someone said here that the z10 would launch somewhere in may right?


----------



## zazaboy

kz zs10 already launched u can get of aliexpress now for discounted price.. at the end of the month they gonna release it official


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2018)

PacoBdn said:


> It's funny, because the person who made the measurements also complains about the lack of sub-bass
> 
> https://audiobudget.com/product/NICEHCK/Bro
> 
> ...



The fact that his FR graphs shows a different story than his sub bass comment, tells me that it's an ear tip and/or seal difference. Especially since that's what I found to be the case with my own pair. With the right seal, I'm hearing what his graph is showing. Using the stock tips, or with an iffy seal, his comments are closer to what I hear vs his FR graphs.

Ears are more dynamic than a FR measuring coupler. It's easy to get an airtight seal on a measurement coupler. The ear canal is not perfectly round, has bumps and contours, contains oils and earwax, and something as simple as opening your mouth, turning your head, or smiling can affect the seal (and thus sub bass).

As far as Comply, I've always found them to reduce sub bass even further, but your ears may be different. From a seal and max sub bass standpoint, I've always had the best luck with KZ Starlines.

Similar examples are the UiiSii CM5 and BlitzWolf ES1. They both have awesome sub bass, but I needed to use Starlines to get a good enough seal to realize their full potential.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 24, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yup. Also goes by the name BGVP SGZ-DN1.
> 
> Audiobudget has reviews on all 3 if anyone wants to read up on them (although I know some people question that site's honesty). But still, it's nice to get another opinion.
> 
> https://audiobudget.com/product/BGVP/SGZ-DN1


Hey, Igor is a driven individual and 100% honest. I had many private discussions with him and purchased many of his recommended iems. But he also has a certain taste (like Vidal) and likes bass. Whereas on the super best website I am not allowed mention, audiophile audio friends mod earphones to iron out bass and treble towards flat, Igor irons in the other direction and blue-tacks and tapes off every vent or hole on any housing to create bass boosts at any cost. And Igor does not mention soundstage or resolution because - in his own words -  it cannot be measured. But he is 100% honest and, as a novice, I learnt a lot from him. As with Vidal, we have to learn how to read between the lines. Igor (and Vidal) have made and are still making major valid contributions to the Chifi community.

Edit: Slater appreciates audiobudget.com, too. I never thought otherwise.

Another Edit: I have been posing at audiobudget.com as Dr. Schweinsgruber!


----------



## adkiller

Hi Guys,

It has been a while since I have posted here in HF. How are y'all doin? 

Anyways, I recently got myself a Shanling M3s and have been looking for a pair of IEMs to go with it.
I am settling on the ZS10 but would like to get a balanced cable to go with it.
Would the FiiO RC-UE2B work with it? With all the price gouging going on with 2-pin balanced cables, these seem like a best bet.
I know the adapters on the cable fit, just am not sure if the connections are correct. Worst case I would use a multimeter to sort it out (if I could my hands on one).

Any idea?

Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Mar 24, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Hey, Igor is a driven individual and 100% honest. I had many private discussions with him and purchased many of his recommended iems. But he also has a certain taste (like Vidal) and likes bass. Whereas on the super best website I am not allowed mention, audiophile audio friends mod earphones to iron out bass and treble towards flat, Igor irons in the other direction and blue-tacks and tapes off every vent or hole on any housing to create bass boosts at any cost. And Igor does not mention soundstage or resolution because - in his own words -  it cannot be measured. But he is 100% honest and, as a novice, I learnt a lot from him. As with Vidal, we have to learn how to read between the lines. Igor (and Vidal) have made and are still making major valid contributions to the Chifi community.



Yeah, I agree 100%. I have no personal issue with him, and I find information and reviews on his site useful and informative.

I just know some on HF have an axe to grind with him and/or audiobudget.com. That's why I said "I know some people question that site's honesty".


----------



## DSebastiao

zazaboy said:


> kz zs10 already launched u can get of aliexpress now for discounted price.. at the end of the month they gonna release it official



Oh that's great, do you know if they use the same 0.75mm angled cables just like the zst's?


----------



## DocHoliday

adkiller said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> It has been a while since I have posted here in HF. How are y'all doin?
> 
> ...



KZ may actually ship the ZS10 with an upgrade cable if this photo is anything to go by.



 
I am hoping that KZ will release an all black upgrade cable like this TRN Black cable..


 

Black cables do not turn green (oxidation). If KZ doesn't offer black upgrade cables then pick up the TRN cable; it's a good cable and at $9 a pop you could get 2 clear cables and 1 black cable for the price you'd be paying for 1 Fiio cable. Black cables for the black ZS10 and clear cables for the red or blue ZS10.


----------



## khighly

DSebastiao said:


> Oh that's great, do you know if they use the same 0.75mm angled cables just like the zst's?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...nning-Sport-Earphone-5-Drive/32860483645.html

Looks like it. I'll be buying a pair of these when they officially come out


----------



## adkiller

DocHoliday said:


> KZ may actually ship the ZS10 with an upgrade cable if this photo is anything to go by.
> ...
> I am hoping that KZ will release an all black upgrade cable like this TRN Black cable..
> ...
> ...



I've had a look at those. The cables have 2.5mm balanced options (only in clear wire) and according to the seller it would work with the ZS10.
However, the earphone adapters/plugs don't look like they are the right ones for KZ:


 
The plugs should look like this to get a good fit (image credit to @Slater ):


 
The FiiO RC-UE2B ones look like this (image credit to @Brooko ):


 

I agree the FiiO prices are overkill. There are other balanced options with the right plugs, but the prices are even worse.
Wished KZ would release a balanced cable, would buy that instead in a heartbeat. 

Any other options?

Thanks!


----------



## Sebilion

I can't believe they lowered the price of the kz zs10 by £20!!! They are similar price to kz zs6 now! I had selected the wrong delivery method and I wanted to cancel my order and buy it again with better delivery. And when I went to do that I had a mini heart attack seeing the new price. Hopefully they will cancel my first order and honor my second one... Does anyone know when they will ship?


----------



## kramercosmo

Hello,

Just at few thought:

-Does anyone know why Kz doesn´t have detachable cable without the memory wire? Seems like no one like them anyway.
-The detachable cable can  "unhook" from the ear pretty easy, ATR doesnt have this problem, probably because the connector is quite long.
I think this could be fixed with MMCX connector. MMCX connector seems more durable too.
-Kz should make a smaller earphone with detachable cables, all earphones are quite big( something like QKZ W3)
-Kz maybe should make ATR with detachable cables?
-Kz should sell just earphones without cables.

What do you think?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Here, this should help. Basically, the only "tool" you need is something sharp, like a sewing needle, hat pin, syringe needle, thumb tack, etc. You can even use a small paper clip that you unbend and sand the end into a sharp point. A sewing needle works best, and you can buy a whole big pack of them for under $1.
> 
> 1). Remove the ear tip from the Xiaomi, and use your sharp object to gently lift the stainless nozzle screen from the edge. The sticky adhesive that holds it down is not that strong, so it will lift up without any trouble. Temporarily set aside the metal nozzle screen on something that it won't permanently stick to, like a piece of wax paper, or a piece of glass, or a piece of plastic.
> 
> ...



My piston fresh was really bad sticked, when i popped the disk out, the foam was attached to it in the left earbud, and they seemed attached stronger than what u said.
Then i had to modify the shape in order to make it a circle again in the way it could fit the hole again.
One was scrooked and one wasn't so i mounted them imprecisely, but that's ok.
The mids now are more present and the trebles are ok, but the sound still feels boxy.. 
Anyway i didn't expect a big quality from a 2 euros headphone but i have to say the bass is good for this price, fast enough to say it's really stable and it doesn't sound muddy.


----------



## adkiller

Any guide to create a custom balanced cable for KZ 2-pins or any similar earphone?

Thanks!


----------



## bsoplinger (Mar 25, 2018)

adkiller said:


> Any guide to create a custom balanced cable for KZ 2-pins or any similar earphone?
> 
> Thanks!


My profile has an album that has the wiring for 2.5mm TRRS jack (below) and 3.5mm also. Just buy the V10 cable mentioned recently and the 2.5mm TRRS jack of your choice. The key is getting a cable that has 4 separate unique wires from jack to headphone. You can buy a more expensive cable that has 8 separate wires, etc but the important thing is a multiple of 4. A few minutes with a continuity tester or multimeter and another few with your soldering iron and you're set. There's even a build your own cable thread where you can find suggestions on a jack and crazy expensive cable material if you want.


----------



## adkiller

bsoplinger said:


> My profile has an album that has the wiring for 2.5mm TRRS jack (below) and 3.5mm also. Just buy the V10 cable mentioned recently and the 2.5mm TRRS jack of your choice. The key is getting a cable that has 4 separate unique wires from jack to headphone. You can buy a more expensive cable that has 8 separate wires, etc but the important thing is a multiple of 4. A few minutes with a continuity tester or multimeter and another few with your soldering iron and you're set. There's even a build your own cable thread where you can find suggestions on a jack and crazy expensive cable material if you want.



Thanks for the jack diagram. The TRN V10 cables posted by DocHoliday are actually single ended and not balanced.
However, I plan to get one of the official KZ ZST upgrade cables (no mic) and replace the jack with 2.5mm.

On the earphone socket, how do I tell which pinhole is R+/R-?
The same goes for the left channel.

Thanks!


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 25, 2018)

Slater said:


> The nice thing about many of these IEMs is that they only cost a few dollars. I mean, the EDR2 is around $4usd. That's what a good cup of coffee costs (outside of Italy of course, as Italy has govt price controls in place for good coffee LOL). The point is that if you can spend $4 to TRY a possibly good IEM, why not? You may end up loving it! And if it turns out that you don't like it at all, give it to a friend or family member or even stranger on the street as a "gift of music".


*
Focal Sphear, KZ ZSR and KZ ZS6 vs. KZ EDR1*

Slater and I keep promoting the $4 KZ oldies such as the EDR1/EDR2 and HDS1/HDS3 etc. advising to buy them before they are gone - without experiencing a hole in your pocket.

Last night, I did some intense comparisons between the Focal Sphear, KZ ZSR, and KZ ZS6. The Focal Sphear are an acquired taste - or the other way round - they are a seductress that adjusts your taste. The Sphear are by no means technically superior over the two hybrid KZs, they don't have a better soundstage, but they have this temptingly evil, pleasant bass that forces itself upon your listening pleasure (some patented bass reflex).

The ZSR, in comparison, do a job so good that you don't think they are in a (much) lower price category than the Sphear - and they sound rather similar. The ZSR sound homogeneous enough to compete with the Sphear - and even with the $399 UE900S. They may be overall brighter than the Sphear and both are a bit thick around the hips. Therefore, no surprise that B9Scrambler treasures his KZ collection.

The ZS6, on the other hand, have a very bright sound signature with less (but enough) bass and they may be technically the best of the three. But the brain has to get used to the brightness first. They are more analytical than the more expensive Sphear but the Sphear are the better convenience food.

Every time I put the ZSR or the EDR1/2 or HDS1/3 into my ears, I am pleasantly surprised how well rounded they sound (the opposite is the case with my Sennheiser iems, considering their price). And when Doc Holiday claims that the ZSR are the updated HDS3, this may be a valid observation...both surprise with very naturally reproduced voices every time I use them. Bass is also similar.

Anyway, I went to bed after extensive listening to Sphear/ZSR/ZS6 and plugged the EDR1 in, listening to the same music as earlier. And - wow- everything still there: soundstage, resolution, voices, dynamics...they are simply great earphones...at frikkin' $4.

Therefore, dear novices to this site: grab these $4 jewels, grab them all as long as they are still around. The whole lot will cost you a quarter of a pair of ZS6. Don't forget: the best earphone is many earphones.

As to my collection. I have 2 pairs of EDR1 and EDR2 (one of each modded and one original), and the HDS1 and HDS 3: the HDS1 is more neutral but I prefer the HDS3 with their "fun" bass.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

One and almost only reason I want the HDS3 is the tiny shape, not the ZSR, not the EDR1/2 can match that shape and serve the purpose I want them for. I just wish KZ released an updated version of the HDS3 keeping the same shape but improving everything else!

Btw which EDR is more balanced? 1 or 2?


----------



## Otto Motor

Lifted Andreas said:


> One and almost only reason I want the HDS3 is the tiny shape, not the ZSR, not the EDR1/2 can match that shape and serve the purpose I want them for. I just wish KZ released an updated version of the HDS3 keeping the same shape but improving everything else!
> 
> Btw which EDR is more balanced? 1 or 2?


1


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2018)

Lifted Andreas said:


> One and almost only reason I want the HDS3 is the tiny shape, not the ZSR, not the EDR1/2 can match that shape and serve the purpose I want them for. I just wish KZ released an updated version of the HDS3 keeping the same shape but improving everything else!
> 
> Btw which EDR is more balanced? 1 or 2?



Balanced can mean different things to different people.

EDR1 has more of a v-shape.
EDR2 has less of a v-shape.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Slater said:


> Balanced can mean different things to different people.
> 
> EDR1 has more of a v-shape.
> EDR2 has less of a v-shape.



I should have said more flat, I'm sorry.

Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Slater

Lifted Andreas said:


> I should have said more flat, I'm sorry.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification!



Ok, that’s EDR2 IMO. I’ve posted the FR graphs (raw, uncompensated) to show the exact difference between the two. If you do a search you’ll find them.


----------



## zazaboy

@Slater are the edr2 .... like edr1 with less bass.. I mean is treble the same ... shall I get the edr2 or are they different sound signatures?


----------



## bsoplinger

adkiller said:


> Thanks for the jack diagram. The TRN V10 cables posted by DocHoliday are actually single ended and not balanced.
> However, I plan to get one of the official KZ ZST upgrade cables (no mic) and replace the jack with 2.5mm.
> 
> On the earphone socket, how do I tell which pinhole is R+/R-?
> ...


Sorry, wasn't clear enough. Yes the TRN V10 cable is single ended. However if you unscrew the jack you'll find 4 separate wires. Just what you need to make a balanced cable. And it'll already be the correct length, have a Y split and a 2 pin connectors on the earphone ends. You just add a 2.5mm trrs connector to replace the 3.5mm SE jack. Lots less work than making a cable entirely from scratch. You can figure out L and R plus from which wires are soldered where on the existing jack. You then just have to figure out which one of the two ground wires is L or R and now you know what all 4 wires are. I've posted this before so was probably too brief with my explanation this time.


----------



## CoiL

Can I get *WHITE ZSR* from AE or GB? Fast answer please, need it as gift. No time to go through all the shop listings. Seems most of them offer green ZSR anyway.


----------



## Adide

CoiL said:


> Can I get *WHITE ZSR* from AE or GB? Fast answer please, need it as gift. No time to go through all the shop listings. Seems most of them offer green ZSR anyway.



Fast undocumented answer from the top of my head red and white flavours are future releases not available yet.
I might be wrong though.


----------



## CoiL

Oh, I thought they are available already everywhere since taobao sold them already some time ago?


----------



## Adide

CoiL said:


> Oh, I thought they are available already everywhere since taobao sold them already some time ago



Hence I'm wrong. Sorry for your time.


----------



## Makahl

CoiL said:


> Can I get *WHITE ZSR* from AE or GB? Fast answer please, need it as gift. No time to go through all the shop listings. Seems most of them offer green ZSR anyway.



I've found them on AE: https://t.co/KS2cszsefV

I'd PM the seller to double check if it's indeed the right colors.


----------



## CoiL

Thanks a lot!


----------



## dondonut (Mar 25, 2018)

@Otto Motor
Sorry to bother you but I saw in your signature you have both the tin audio t2 and the KZ ZSR. Which do you prefer of the 2, and why? How would they compare to the earphones I have in my signature?

I prefer the smaller form factor earphones that can be worn down instead of over ear. In the next ali sale I'm looking to buy a pair of earphones that will perform so we'll that I'll have to spend way more (>€100) if I want something noticably better. In other words, I need to stop ordering so many cheap pairs and get 1 really good pair. The tin audio t2 looks promising in that regard. I'm also considering jumping abourd the KZ ZS10 hype train.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 25, 2018)

dondonut said:


> @Otto Motor
> Sorry to bother you but I saw in your signature you have both the tin audio t2 and the KZ ZSR. Which do you prefer of the 2, and why? How would they compare to the earphones I have in my signature?
> 
> I prefer the smaller form factor earphones that can be worn down instead of over ear. In the next ali sale I'm looking to buy a pair of earphones that will perform so we'll that I'll have to spend way more (>€100) if I want something noticably better. In other words, I need to stop ordering so many cheap pairs and get 1 really good pair. The tin audio t2 looks promising in that regard. I'm also considering jumping abourd the KZ ZS10 hype train.


A truly difficult question because both are so different. The T2 have a tuning towards neutral and many people think they lack bass (but they don't). The ZSR have more (and thicker) bass and sound overall warmer and less analytical.

The T2 are made of metal (with a nice cable) and can be worn with the cable over-ear or cable down.

I am always thrilled when plugging the ZSR in, but some here don't like the fit or the treble. Nobody has complained about the T2 yet, which are more unique in their design and sound signature.

In the end, both are very worthy earphones and I am glad to have both of them.

I would recommend to go by form factor and price. I got both on sale: the T2 for $32 USD and the ZSR for around $20 USD. If you go for the T2, you will get a totally different design compared to the ZS10...which is similar to the ZSR and other KZ models. And if the sale is really good, there will be room for an EDR1 or HDS3, too.

Hope that helps. Second opinions appreciated.


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> @Slater are the edr2 .... like edr1 with less bass.. I mean is treble the same ... shall I get the edr2 or are they different sound signatures?



Click the files, and you can use the arrow keys to go back and forth to see the difference. Treble is basically the same, with the main differences being sub bass, bass, and midrange.


----------



## ShakyJake

Otto Motor said:


> A truly difficult question because both are so different. The T2 have a tuning towards neutral and many people think they lack bass (but they don't). The ZSR have more (and thicker) bass and sound overall warmer and less analytical.
> 
> The T2 are made of metal (with a nice cable) and can be worn with the cable over-ear or cable down.
> 
> ...



Just a heads up. The T2 will be on sale at Ali Express for $33 during their upcoming sale starting on 3/28:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32828514347.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.wC0TF8

I have heard enough good things about the T2 to check it out.


----------



## Otto Motor

ShakyJake said:


> Just a heads up. The T2 will be on sale at Ali Express for $33 during their upcoming sale starting on 3/28:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32828514347.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.wC0TF8
> 
> I have heard enough good things about the T2 to check it out.


I got them from there. Good seller!


----------



## C2thew

On a random note, what are you guys planning on buying for the aliexpress sale?  I'm pretty sure the zs 10 s wont qualify for any discounts as they have to have the icon next to the ad for the coupons to work.  Just curious.  It doesnt have to be headphone related.  For instance I'm looking at the zs10 and edr1 but am also looking at some backpacking stuff.


----------



## dondonut

Otto Motor said:


> A truly difficult question because both are so different. The T2 have a tuning towards neutral and many people think they lack bass (but they don't). The ZSR have more (and thicker) bass and sound overall warmer and less analytical.
> 
> The T2 are made of metal (with a nice cable) and can be worn with the cable over-ear or cable down.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for responding. I'm leaning towards the tin audio t2 for they can be worn cable down and I think I do prefer a somewhat more neutral tuning. I don't mind spending €10 extra, as I said, I'm looking to buy a final iem (at least for the next 6-12 months or so :'), who am I kidding). 

Concerning the ZSR; I might wait for feedback on the zs10 or for a new kz to drop untill ordering my next KZ earphone. Though I must say, I'm really tempted to just order both the t2 and the ZSR.

And yeah, been waiting for a month already for my EDR1 to arrive and ordered the HDS3 a few days ago because the small size is so appealing to me for sleepy times.


----------



## vegetaleb

About the KZ BT module to transform most KZ into BT earphones, is it APTX? Also does it have memory wires?


----------



## manukmanohar (Mar 26, 2018)

I was thinking of getting a KZ ZS10 plus a good Bluetooth cable that has apt X support plus good battery life, without the sound delay issues that I hear in KZ BT module.
Has someone tried other bluetooth cables? Any which you would recommend? (KZ ZS10 seems to need a ZST like cable)

Edit:


vegetaleb said:


> About the KZ BT module to transform most KZ into BT earphones, is it APTX? Also does it have memory wires?



Guess we have a similar need. To answer you question, it is not APTX, AFAIK. Not sure about memory wires. (but the other KZ cable with mic which i bought had memory wires)


----------



## vegetaleb

Ok!
I want to understand AE anniversary pricing, for example they list ZSR without mic at 20.5$ as special price (was 27$) so if I want the Mic version (normal price 28$) it should be somewhere between 21 and 21.5$?


----------



## bsoplinger

ShakyJake said:


> Just a heads up. The T2 will be on sale at Ali Express for $33 during their upcoming sale starting on 3/28:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32828514347.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.wC0TF8
> 
> I have heard enough good things about the T2 to check it out.


That's a great price for a very decent sounding IEMs. Very different type of sound signature though than "the KZ sound."


----------



## hiflofi

bsoplinger said:


> That's a great price for a very decent sounding IEMs. Very different type of sound signature though than "the KZ sound."


How would you describe the "KZ sound"? I find myself liking the ZS6 a lot.


----------



## oyobass

manukmanohar said:


> I was thinking of getting a KZ ZS10 plus a good Bluetooth cable that has apt X support plus good battery life, without the sound delay issues that I hear in KZ BT module.
> Has someone tried other bluetooth cables? Any which you would recommend? (KZ ZS10 seems to need a ZST like cable)
> 
> Edit:
> ...





vegetaleb said:


> About the KZ BT module to transform most KZ into BT earphones, is it APTX? Also does it have memory wires?



I believe @Slater has tried the TRN bluetooth cable and has been very pleased with the results. If I remember correctly, it has both APTX and longer battery life.


----------



## toddy0191

manukmanohar said:


> I was thinking of getting a KZ ZS10 plus a good Bluetooth cable that has apt X support plus good battery life, without the sound delay issues that I hear in KZ BT module.
> Has someone tried other bluetooth cables? Any which you would recommend? (KZ ZS10 seems to need a ZST like cable)
> 
> Edit:
> ...



The last one I received stated it was AptX compatible in the manual,  but it was DOA so couldn't confirm.  

Received that last month.


----------



## youngarthur

Ive succumbed, and ordered the KZ ZS10,uprated cables, and Bluetooth cable. I tried jumping off the hype train, to no avail.


----------



## charlescc2 (Mar 26, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *Focal Sphear, KZ ZSR and KZ ZS6 vs. KZ EDR1*
> 
> *snip*



After reading this and all the other posts you guys make about the legacy models I think I'm gonna buy EDR1/2, and HDS1/3.  Do you guys get them without mic or is the mic not a hindrance in any way?

Additionally, where are you seeing these for $4?  I'm seeing the EDR1 and 2 on GB for $5-6 and the HDS1 and 3 for ~$10 on Amazon, neither on AE.  I'd love to get them all if the prices are right.

Edit: Ok AE mobile is weird and wasn't showing any of the above in a search.  I see the EDRs on the desktop version for $4 each.  Still no HDS1 and HDS3 is ~$9.  Hoping to get the HDS' for less.


----------



## oyobass

toddy0191 said:


> The last one I received stated it was AptX compatible in the manual,  but it was DOA so couldn't confirm.
> 
> Received that last month.


From what I understand, (mine was lost in Customs last year so I never got it to test), the manual was printed for the first version of the KZ bluetooth cable that did have APTX. Apparently in later production, APTX was removed due to poor battery life.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 26, 2018)

charlescc2 said:


> After reading this and all the other posts you guys make about the legacy models I think I'm gonna buy EDR1/2, and HDS1/3.  Do you guys get them without mic or is the mic not a hindrance in any way?
> 
> Additionally, where are you seeing these for $4?  I'm seeing the EDR1 and 2 on GB for $5-6 and the HDS1 and 3 for ~$10 on Amazon, neither on AE.  I'd love to get them all if the prices are right.



Be mindful that the HDS1 & HDS3 sound their absolute best with more power/juice, which typically means coupling them to a HiRes DAP or a phone with an exceptional DAC. If you won't be using a smartphone then I'd forego the microphone because it is more susceptible to failure than the areas that are bolstered with strain reliefs. 

The EDR1  & EDR2 sound great through smartphones and HiRes DAPs.

One of the reasons KZ has garnered so much interest by hobbyists is because they are one of the few manufacturers that offer IEMs with or without microphones. I've passed on many an IEM because it was only offered "with" a microphone. I've dozens of IEMs and thus far the only ones that have issues do sport a microphone. Sadly, my ZS2 is no longer functioning properly because the microphone side cable dropped volume by 50%. I ordered the ZS2 without the microphone for this very reason but the seller shipped one with the microphone. The ZS2 is not my favorite sound signature (7.5/10) but that's not the point. I can no longer describe or compare it's sound because the microphone cable has deteriorated the sound. That's anecdotal evidence but it is my experience, nonetheless. 



 
Hope this was helpful.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 26, 2018)

charlescc2 said:


> After reading this and all the other posts you guys make about the legacy models I think I'm gonna buy EDR1/2, and HDS1/3.  Do you guys get them without mic or is the mic not a hindrance in any way?
> 
> Additionally, where are you seeing these for $4?  I'm seeing the EDR1 and 2 on GB for $5-6 and the HDS1 and 3 for ~$10 on Amazon, neither on AE.  I'd love to get them all if the prices are right.
> 
> Edit: Ok AE mobile is weird and wasn't showing any of the above in a search.  I see the EDRs on the desktop version for $4 each.  Still no HDS1 and HDS3 is ~$9.  Hoping to get the HDS' for less.


Check gearbest and eBay. They are typically $6-8 CAD  and worth it. I like them with microphone/remote as I can use my phone easily when out of the house.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 26, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Be mindful that the HDS1 & HDS3 sound their absolute best with more power/juice, which typically means coupling them to a HiRes DAP or a phone with an exceptional DAC. If you won't be using a smartphone then I'd forego the microphone because it is more susceptible to failure than the areas that are bolstered with strain reliefs.
> 
> The EDR1  & EDR2 sound great through smartphones and HiRes DAPs.
> 
> ...


My biggest beef with cables that have a mic, (besides durability), is the inability to use them on a source with a TRS output without fiddling around by partially unplugging the cable a mm or so. Otherwise you end up hearing the difference between the channels, (whatever is panned either left or right on the recording), leaving out whatever you would normally hear in the center of the soundstage.

This is a minor annoyance when seated near a PC or amp, but a deal breaker when using them as a monitor when playing live music, you can't stop playing mid-song to adjust the connection.

Having the choice of TRS or TRRS connections means that KZ is very musician-friendly to use on stage and probably why, (other than the low price/good sound compared to Shure's entry-level IEM), that I hear the ZST being recommended time after time on musician/sound engineer discussion boards.

EDIT: A work-around is to use the KZ brand stereo extension cable in between the TRS source and your TRRS headphone. I've found that the plug can be fully inserted without losing full connection to the source.


----------



## NeonHD

*<Trivial Rant>*

I honestly don't get how people can call the KZ ATR_ "bassy", or _at least say it has more bass than the blatantly bassy ATE-S.

Like, when this dude from my classifieds showed up to buy my ATR, he was like* "HUH??? NO BASS?!?!?"* and I was like _"Yup..... afraid so....."_.

So I don't think I'm the oddball here... 

*</Trivial Rant>*


----------



## Slater

hiflofi said:


> How would you describe the "KZ sound"? I find myself liking the ZS6 a lot.



If I had to describe the "KZ sound" in 1 sentence, I would say (for the most part, taking into account 80% of every model they've every made) v-shaped, and (lately) bright treble.


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> My biggest beef with cables that have a mic, (besides durability), is the inability to use them on a source with a TRS output without fiddling around by partially unplugging the cable a mm or so. Otherwise you end up hearing the difference between the channels, (whatever is panned either left or right on the recording), leaving out whatever you would normally hear in the center of the soundstage.



Hmmm, the last time I've had to do that was in the 80's with crappy cassette walkmans that had worn out plugs. Other than that, I have zero issues like that, with any headphone, earphone, or source.

Maybe the source youre using has a bad jack. For example, if the jack on your DAP is bad or failing, "every cable" that you plug into it will exhibit that behavior. But in that case, the problem isn't with "every cable" but rather the bad jack on the source.


----------



## Slater

charlescc2 said:


> After reading this and all the other posts you guys make about the legacy models I think I'm gonna buy EDR1/2, and HDS1/3.  Do you guys get them without mic or is the mic not a hindrance in any way?
> 
> Additionally, where are you seeing these for $4?  I'm seeing the EDR1 and 2 on GB for $5-6 and the HDS1 and 3 for ~$10 on Amazon, neither on AE.  I'd love to get them all if the prices are right.
> 
> Edit: Ok AE mobile is weird and wasn't showing any of the above in a search.  I see the EDRs on the desktop version for $4 each.  Still no HDS1 and HDS3 is ~$9.  Hoping to get the HDS' for less.



I haven't seen the HDS1 for sale in a long while.

EDR1 is on sale for UNDER $4 in 2 days. That's bonkers!


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> If I had to describe the "KZ sound" in 1 sentence, I would say (for the most part, taking into account 80% of every model they've every made) v-shaped, and (lately) bright treble.


Sorry had meant to reply but got sidetracked and forgot. Thanks for answering his question. Your description is exactly what I'd say to describe the overall texture of KZ products. I was just trying to let him know that the IEM he was looking at would sound different, not saying better or worse just different, since it seemed he'd only listened to KZ products.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 26, 2018)

Slater said:


> Hmmm, the last time I've had to do that was in the 80's with crappy cassette walkmans that had worn out plugs. Other than that, I have zero issues like that, with any headphone, earphone, or source.
> 
> Maybe the source youre using has a bad jack. For example, if the jack on your DAP is bad or failing, "every cable" that you plug into it will exhibit that behavior. But in that case, the problem isn't with "every cable" but rather the bad jack on the source.


Must be the various brand headphone extension cables used as umbilical cords to the in-ear monitor mixer's 1/4 inch jack, then. They sure don't work right unless i use a non-microphone cable on the earphone, then they work perfectly.

The cables we have must not be wired to a modern spec, even though the were purchased in the last year. The KZ cable is too short to be of any practical use to me except as an adapter to get the full sound on a TRRS earphone. It must be wired correctly, even though the male end is TRS...

Edit: Works correctly with the Bose desktop PC speakers (well, the sound from the headphone out is a muddy garbled mess, but with the correct stereo output), but not the HP PC headphone jack they are plugged into (The PC's output is strong and clear, miles better than the Bose's).


----------



## WildSeven

Just hopped on the hype train and ordered ZS10, hope is better then ZS6.


----------



## TLDRonin

Were KZ ATE always around $8? In my mind they were part of the ~$5 KZ group, but I can't it that cheap anywhere


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> Were KZ ATE always around $8? In my mind they were part of the ~$5 KZ group, but I can't it that cheap anywhere



It gets that price when it’s on sale. For example, the most recent ATE I bought was $3.99 from Gearbest (w/coupon code).


----------



## CoiL

TLDRonin said:


> Were KZ ATE always around $8? In my mind they were part of the ~$5 KZ group, but I can't it that cheap anywhere


You can buy latest ATR with 4$ price tag - they have exactly same driver inside. Earlier ATR had different driver.


----------



## bsoplinger

CoiL said:


> You can buy latest ATR with 4$ price tag - they have exactly same driver inside. Earlier ATR had different driver.


Just a different body shell? Which do you find more comfortable?


----------



## vegetaleb (Mar 27, 2018)

What about NiceHCK seller? Is he a good one?
About the TRN BT cable I should pick the 2 pins version for the ZSR right? I couldn't find an APTX mention on the product pages on AE, if it doesn't have aptx then it's not better than my old good Sony sbh50. I don't know why no one is using APTX HD codec yet...


----------



## CoiL

bsoplinger said:


> Just a different body shell? Which do you find more comfortable?


Same shell, same fit.


----------



## groucho69

vegetaleb said:


> What about NiceHCK seller? Is he a good one?
> About the TRN BT cable I should pick the 2 pins version for the ZSR right? I couldn't find an APTX mention on the product pages on AE, if it doesn't have aptx then it's not better than my old good Sony sbh50. I don't know why no one is using APTX HD codec yet...



One of the best!


----------



## vegetaleb

Ok
So now my AE list is nearly ready and it includes the ZSR, I just have to pick the right cover for my phone to complete my list 
Since the ZS3 (that I found now too bassy with my U11)  I have only bought the W1 Pro which sounds pretty good  after the air holes mod but has a very bad fit because of the short nozzle, so I hope I won't be disappointed by the ZSR


----------



## stmiller

Held out as long as i could..

Just pre-ordered the zs10, and still awaiting delivery of the ATE..


----------



## stmiller

Which upgrade cable did you choose for the zs10, I'm currently undecided


----------



## kazuma2017

https://gss3.baidu.com/6LZ0ej3k1Qd3...code/8_b57ee182a9473f7f4bf3465ab3f079c0_2.mp4


----------



## Wiljen

stmiller said:


> Which upgrade cable did you choose for the zs10, I'm currently undecided




For cheaps, I'm liking this one:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Headset-Silver-Plated-Wire/32833176861.html?

For better, I'd go this direction: (During the Anniversary sale at the $45 mark - Not worth full price) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...le-Silver-With-Copper-Mixed/32815926238.html?


----------



## DSebastiao

What do you guys use (if anything) for cleaning the iem's? In general, what do you use for taking care of them? 

Also, how do you guys carry them around? I bought both the hard case and the soft one from KZ, they seem to be nice but i can't find a way to fit my ZST's in there comfortably.


----------



## DSebastiao

Wiljen said:


> For cheaps, I'm liking this one:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Headset-Silver-Plated-Wire/32833176861.html?
> 
> For better, I'd go this direction: (During the Anniversary sale at the $45 mark - Not worth full price) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...le-Silver-With-Copper-Mixed/32815926238.html?



I believe neither of those are meant for the ZS10, they use a 0.75mm angled cable, just like the ZST's.


----------



## jeromeaparis

DSebastiao said:


> What do you guys use (if anything) for cleaning the iem's? In general, what do you use for taking care of them?
> 
> Also, how do you guys carry them around? I bought both the hard case and the soft one from KZ, they seem to be nice but i can't find a way to fit my ZST's in there comfortably.



For my KZ ZST with sdt cable without mic, I use the standard KZ box with logo:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/KZ-Case-Bag...hash=item1a1f8f162a:m:m8d_21iGLwMzf-ORvZvhSxg
It fits perfectly. It works too with ATE &  ZS-1-2-E & ES3

For KZ ZS-3-R-6 with sdt cable or silver plated optional KZ cables, I use this:
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_636854.html?wid=21


----------



## oyobass

DSebastiao said:


> What do you guys use (if anything) for cleaning the iem's? In general, what do you use for taking care of them?
> 
> Also, how do you guys carry them around? I bought both the hard case and the soft one from KZ, they seem to be nice but i can't find a way to fit my ZST's in there comfortably.


Is this the hard case you bought? 




https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605419.html
I can carry my ZS6, an extra cable and a half dozen USB flash drives in it, and it is dirt cheap for the quality you get.


----------



## Wiljen

DSebastiao said:


> I believe neither of those are meant for the ZS10, they use a 0.75mm angled cable, just like the ZST's.



Yep sorry Zs6 versions - both have a Zs10 equivalent - just wrong pin size.


----------



## riffrafff

oyobass said:


> Is this the hard case you bought?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I must have ten or so, of those.  The KZ-labeled ones for earphones, and the unlabeled ones for tips (with the tips in these:  https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_648920.html?wid=21 ).


----------



## oyobass

Wiljen said:


> Yep sorry Zs6 versions - both have a Zs10 equivalent - just wrong pin size.


Wait, what??

The ZS10 uses a different pin size? What size will they be using, if not the usual 0.75 mm?

By the way, at least in the past, the cables with straight ends are universal KZ fit, the anged-ended ones need modification to fit the ZS6, and other KZ IEMs that came with straight end cables. (All except the very early detachable cables, which reportedly had 0.78 mm pins).


----------



## DSebastiao

jeromeaparis said:


> For my KZ ZST with sdt cable without mic, I use the standard KZ box with logo:
> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/KZ-Case-Bag...hash=item1a1f8f162a:m:m8d_21iGLwMzf-ORvZvhSxg
> It fits perfectly. It works too with ATE &  ZS-1-2-E & ES3
> 
> ...





oyobass said:


> Is this the hard case you bought?
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605419.html
> I can carry my ZS6, an extra cable and a half dozen USB flash drives in it, and it is dirt cheap for the quality you get.



I have exactly both, the thing is, i can't really organize them inside the case, and i end up with the same result as putting them on my pocket or something.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 27, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> I must have ten or so, of those.  The KZ-labeled ones for earphones, and the unlabeled ones for tips (with the tips in these:  https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_648920.html?wid=21 ).


I get the New Bee tips from Amazon because I like the case they come with:





https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071DR9B7..._rd_r=9BB2EYHFZ0651S4A7MSW&pd_rd_w=DxjGo&th=1


----------



## DSebastiao

oyobass said:


> I get the New Bee tips from Amazon because I like the case they come with:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071DR9B7..._rd_r=9BB2EYHFZ0651S4A7MSW&pd_rd_w=DxjGo&th=1



I'm interested in those tips, do they fit well on the zs6?


----------



## Wiljen

oyobass said:


> Wait, what??
> 
> The ZS10 uses a different pin size? What size will they be using, if not the usual 0.75 mm?
> 
> By the way, at least in the past, the cables with straight ends are universal KZ fit, the anged-ended ones need modification to fit the ZS6, and other KZ IEMs that came with straight end cables. (All except the very early detachable cables, which reportedly had 0.78 mm pins).



I have a couple of the .78 so was thinking of those.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 27, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> I'm interested in those tips, do they fit well on the zs6?


They have worked perfectly for me, but some people report having the tip stay behind in their ear when removing the IEM. More of a problem with the lip-less ZS6 than the tips themselves.
The listing I linked to has a choice of all one size or S,M,L assortments and various color options. Most listings just give you the S,M,L packs/color options...


----------



## Slater

stmiller said:


> Which upgrade cable did you choose for the zs10, I'm currently undecided



The one it comes with is one of the best to have (assuming the photos of the ZS10 are accurate).


----------



## Slater

Now we know what BAs are in the ZS10:


----------



## BrunoC

I hope they just don't stick the 4 BAs in the nozzle ...


----------



## Holypal

ZS10 looks like more comfortable than ZS6


----------



## Holypal

BrunoC said:


> I hope they just don't stick the 4 BAs in the nozzle ...



Nozzle is too small to house the 4 BAs


----------



## Slater

BrunoC said:


> I hope they just don't stick the 4 BAs in the nozzle ...



No, the 4xBAs are stuck in the housing a short distance away from the nozzle.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Now we know what BAs are in the ZS10:



So is the 30095 the Knowles part or just shares the part #?
I cant find the 50060 referenced so I am assuming it is a Kz made part.


----------



## stmiller

Slater said:


> The one it comes with is one of the best to have (assuming the photos of the ZS10 are accurate).





Slater said:


> The one it comes with is one of the best to have (assuming the photos of the ZS10 are accurate).



No idea what the zs10 retail package will ship with.


----------



## stmiller

Slater said:


> No, the 4xBAs are stuck in the housing a short distance away from the nozzle.





Bye bye sibilance


----------



## Wiljen

@Slater is probably on the money on the cable.   The Kz made upgrade versions have been about as good as the rest of the lower priced replacement cables in my experience.

as for the @stmiller 'Bye bye Sibilance', I am not at all sure that moving the driver slightly rearward from the nozzle will reduce sibilance appreciably without making the sound signature much darker in the process.   With Kz having a tendency toward bright signatures, I cant see them reducing that to the degree that it creates a warm/dark iem.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> So is the 30095 the Knowles part or just shares the part #?
> I cant find the 50060 referenced so I am assuming it is a Kz made part.



No, not Knowles models, but rather made for KZ by Bellsing (a large Chinese BA manufacturer), and given the same model numbers.

The specs are basically the same as the Knowles versions, which is why Bellsing gives them the same model numbers (ie to make it easier for IEM manufacturers to select a Bellsing model).

Although there has always been speculation that Knowles actually contracts out at least some of their BA driver manufacturing to Bellsing, but this has never been proven (yet).


----------



## Wiljen

So the 30095 is the high and the 50060 is mids?   I know the Knowles 30095 is considered a high frequency driver so am assuming this runs in parallel.


----------



## Slater (Mar 27, 2018)

stmiller said:


> No idea what the zs10 retail package will ship with.



Nope, no one knows yet.

But in the past, KZ has never released marketing promo shots of IEMs with non-stock cables. For example, the ZS3, ZST, ZSR, ZS5, ZS6, ED12, and ES3 have all been ONLY photographed by KZ with the cables they included stock (which have all been black 2-pin cables; some with and without mics).

The ZS10 is the 1st IEM they have photographed with an "upgrade" cable. Since no one can tell the future, and rather must postulate future events based on past evidence, there is a high liklihood that the stock cable of the ZS10 IS the one in the marketing photos (ie the steel grey "upgrade" cable). The fact that the ZS10 is their flagship IEM lends even more evidence to the hypothesis.

Care to wager a cookie?


----------



## Slater (Mar 27, 2018)

stmiller said:


> Bye bye sibilance



Hmmm, I'm not so sure I agree.

Every IEM KZ has used the 30095 on has exhibited sibilance to some degree. I honestly don't know why they keep cramming the 30095 into every single model they make. They must have got a good deal on eleventy-billion of them, and figured _"what the heck, let's just use them up by putting them in everything - 2 at a time if we need to!"_

We shall find out soon enough...


----------



## stmiller

@Slater, really hope you're right.

I don't want to spend precious funds chasing cables anymore.


----------



## Slater (Mar 27, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> So the 30095 is the high and the 50060 is mids?   I know the Knowles 30095 is considered a high frequency driver so am assuming this runs in parallel.



Totally depends on the crossover.

They could in theory tune the crossover so that the 30095 BA only produces below 125Hz, and the dynamic driver only above 10k. It wouldn't make any sense to do it that way, but the point is that the crossover is the thing that will determine what driver(s) do what.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 27, 2018)

Theoretically, spreading the sound between several BA drivers means each driver isn't as stressed when driven hard, reducing the effects of driver distortion.
This would work whether the crossover sends an identical signal to both high and another to both midrange BAs, or a seperate frequency range to all four.

I am extrapolating here from PA system design, (otherwise known as a wild guess), but it should work the same way... What I don't know is whether the comb filtering that happens when combining multiple larger drivers in a PA system applies to the tiny drivers in an IEM. 

My (wild guess) thought is that since comb filtering is reduced when drivers are less than the frequencies that they reproduce wavelength apart, there should be much less problem with four BAs occupying less than a quarter inch of space.

In actuality, implementation is everything, as @Slater was saying. All the guessing in the world, even educated guessing, won't tell us what the ZS10 will sound like based on the photos we've seen.

Just musing and wondering out loud...


----------



## riffrafff

oyobass said:


> I get the New Bee tips from Amazon because I like the case they come with:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have some New Bee cases, but many of my tips (other than the New Bee tips, of course) are either too tight or too loose to fit properly on the little case nubs.  And some, like the triple-flange tips, are too tall to allow the case lid to close without smooshing the tips.


----------



## Aparker2005

I'm trying to place an order for the ZS10 on Ali express for $31 and my card security keeps not approving the purchase :/ 

I'm in the US, any idea ?


----------



## HungryPanda

I had that problem with one store recently when using my mobile phone but soon as I went home and connected to my home wifi the purchase went through ok


----------



## mbwilson111

Aparker2005 said:


> I'm trying to place an order for the ZS10 on Ali express for $31 and my card security keeps not approving the purchase :/
> 
> I'm in the US, any idea ?



Call the card company and tell them to allow it.


----------



## Aparker2005

And we expect up to 6 weeks for delivery to the US on these usually right? First time ordering here  

I got my zst and es3 from Amazon  They're absolutely wonderful iems for playing drums live. Can't wait to see how these zs10s work out.


----------



## oyobass

Aparker2005 said:


> And we expect up to 6 weeks for delivery to the US on these usually right? First time ordering here
> 
> I got my zst and es3 from Amazon  They're absolutely wonderful iems for playing drums live. Can't wait to see how these zs10s work out.


Another great KZ for drums is the KZ ZS3, pretty inexpensive, too. 

It is about the best isolating IEM I have used, especially with foam tips. It has great bass and good treble without so much of the somewhat excessive sizzle of the hybrid models.

If they fit you, they I'm told they are very comfortable. I had to sand down the "bump" on the part that faces the ear to make them work for me, but I wasn't issued a standard set of ears, lol.


----------



## Aparker2005

I was gonna order from Amazon but if I can get them for $31 with a coupon from audiobudget, I'd rather not pay the $62.

I wonder if Amazon will take just as long being they're so new?

Thanks for the recommendation up above! This thread is great


----------



## oyobass

Aparker2005 said:


> I was gonna order from Amazon but if I can get them for $31 with a coupon from audiobudget, I'd rather not pay the $62.
> 
> I wonder if Amazon will take just as long being they're so new?
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation up above! This thread is great


Amazon should be much faster, with a much better return policy. 

That being said, Gearbest gets most of my business, because the search for the bargain is part of the attraction of the Chi-Fi hobby for me.

Of the 25 items I have ordered from GB, only one (a $6.oo smartwatch), arrived DOA (the second one, which I wear daily, is still working great), and a 2.99 item got lost in US Customs where it is probably still in a dark corner somewhere...


----------



## Roboturner913

Tried ED4. I want to like them but the sibilance is just beating me up. I think maybe if I had some longer tips to go on them, maybe foam to dampen down the treble a bit, I'd like them more. 

Have ED9 and ZSE on the way. Want to try the IE8 clones too.


----------



## Slater

Roboturner913 said:


> Tried ED4. I want to like them but the sibilance is just beating me up. I think maybe if I had some longer tips to go on them, maybe foam to dampen down the treble a bit, I'd like them more.
> 
> Have ED9 and ZSE on the way. Want to try the IE8 clones too.



Don't even bother trying different things to make them sound better. Believe me, I've modded the ED4 every which way I can to no avail.

The ED4 is an abomination in the KZ lineup. They should all be recalled and crushed. I would love to personally operate the crushing machine too LOL


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> No, the 4xBAs are stuck in the housing a short distance away from the nozzle.


I just don`t get why they have to stick 2X same BAs ? Seems stupid imho.


stmiller said:


> Bye bye sibilance


If You look at pics, then they have left pretty large channel/chamber opening in front of BAs - which imho may leave too much "room" for doubled BAs sound.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 28, 2018)

I thought these two would make a great combination but the cable price just seems to increase in price instead of decrease. KZ's silver upgrade or the TRN silver upgrade should compliment the blue ZS10  just fine at $10+/-.

Deleted (banned seller)


----------



## CoiL (Mar 28, 2018)

I decided to go with route of 1.5m 8-wire braided CU/AGCU cable (~8€) + Neutrik 90-angle jack(~6€) + 2-pin ends (~3€) and build my own cable. My experience says that those cheaper (or even expensive) chi-fi cables have too much QC problems and tolerance issues. Waiting for 2-pin ends to arrive, then going to finish it. Cable itself already measures better (0.3Ohm) than most chi-fi cables I have tested.
Making that cable for my modified ZS5v1 (which I love soooo much), which currently has ~0.5Ohm cable. No actual need but I wish better for my personal Chi-Fi "king".


----------



## vegetaleb

The game is On!
Which seller is better? NiceHCK or AK Audio? AK is cheaper of about 1.5$ so I can keep the change for something else on AE but if the seller is slow to send the item or does error then I will stick to Nice HCK


----------



## nkramer

coil, can you give us some info on where you get your DIY cable components?
- wire (what gague, etc.)
- .75mm DIY connectors

i have a couple iems that are in need of a recable, but i've had a hard time trying to find premade cables (or cheap iems to cannibalize) that have close to a 5 foot (60 inch, 1.667 meter) cable.


----------



## snip3r77

vegetaleb said:


> The game is On!
> Which seller is better? NiceHCK or AK Audio? AK is cheaper of about 1.5$ so I can keep the change for something else on AE but if the seller is slow to send the item or does error then I will stick to Nice HCK


Both are ok. Roll the dice or buy the cheaper one


----------



## kramercosmo

Hmm... what should i buy?

Tennmak pro + Piano earpices 20€

Kz zs10 22€

Anyone have any information about Kz zs10? I already have zs5 and a few other kz but not Tennmak.


----------



## TLDRonin

kramercosmo said:


> Hmm... what should i buy?
> 
> Tennmak pro + Piano earpices 20€
> 
> ...


Aside from the drivers and what it looks like, no one knows anything about the ZS10. Apparently stores don't even have them in hand


----------



## vegetaleb

About the TRN BT cable/adapter, does it have memory wires as good as the ones on KZ ZS iems so I can use it while running?


----------



## CoiL (Mar 28, 2018)

nkramer said:


> coil, can you give us some info on where you get your DIY cable components?
> - wire (what gague, etc.)
> - .75mm DIY connectors
> i have a couple iems that are in need of a recable, but i've had a hard time trying to find premade cables (or cheap iems to cannibalize) that have close to a 5 foot (60 inch, 1.667 meter) cable.


I used this cable (FP-8101AG+CU): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Headphone-Wire/32767554889.html
It isn`t extremely soft like KZ or IT01 cable but holds itself nice and is not too stiff either.
Going to open braiding about 25cm and continue 4-strand braiding to each side myself, without extra soldering between.

Neutrik plug can be bought on AE but probably You`ll find it even cheaper in Your local HQ electronics store (as I did):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2Pc...7414-4569-8e50-b156fce462b7&priceBeautifyAB=0
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...526.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.76d9703bjzTyLp
.75mm connectors going to use these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tra...-Plug-For-DIY-Cable-LN002215/32811122902.html
But probably going to chop off KZ cable 2-pin ends and make custom shells for them (just for experience and fun).

About Neutrik NTP3RC - it`s the best 90' 3.5mm jack I`ve ever tried, worth the price, period. I prefer the black/gold-plated but both are same HQ.
e-bay has the black verison too: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...TRC0.H0.XNTP3RC-B.TRS0&_nkw=NTP3RC-B&_sacat=0


----------



## kramercosmo

TLDRonin said:


> Aside from the drivers and what it looks like, no one knows anything about the ZS10. Apparently stores don't even have them in hand



Okay, so i doesn't need to be better than zs5/6, maybe i should go for Tennmak then.


----------



## CoiL

kramercosmo said:


> Okay, so i doesn't need to be better than zs5/6, maybe i should go for Tennmak then.


Why not TinAudio T2 or something else with widely appreciated feedback?


----------



## nkramer

thank you VERY MUCH coil. this helps immensely!


----------



## wavid (Mar 28, 2018)

I have decided to buy my first pair of KZ IEMS (maybe a few)

I wanted to get a pair of ZS5 but I have read that most are now v2 which have issues...
I read somewhere that the ZS6 are similar to the ZS5v1?
Any point in getting ZS6 if the ZS10 is coming out soon?

They have so many releases its hard to keep up and I am getting overwhelmed

Are cheaper ones like the ZST still good options or are they not recommended anymore because of all the new releases?

I was thinking about getting x2 -£10 IEMs (ZST? ATE? ZS3? )
..ZSR??
and 1 or 2  +£20 IEMS (ZS6? ZS10? Tin Audio T2? Tennmak pro?)

EDIT: Now that I think about it, should I post this in the "BEST SUB-100$ Chinese Earphones" thread instead?


----------



## cyberjunkie

Decided to go in for the ZS10. Hopefully it won't be overly bright. 

I already own the ATE, ZST and ZS5 (snapped by friend).


----------



## vegetaleb (Mar 28, 2018)

wavid said:


> I have decided to buy my first pair of KZ IEMS (maybe a few)
> 
> I wanted to get a pair of ZS5 but I have read that most are now v2 which have issues...
> I read somewhere that the ZS6 are similar to the ZS5v1?
> ...



I have the ZS3 for a good time now, I recommend them, though they have a tendency to have a bit too much bass even after the filter mod (take out the red filter), nice soundstage and details but they could hide behind the bass.
I am going to order the ZSR which are apparently the best 20ish choice, from what I saw the beat they ZS5 in mids and details.
I just don't know if I get a TRN BT cable with the ZSR as nobody confirmed the SQ is as good as wired


----------



## wavid

vegetaleb said:


> I am going to order the ZSR which are apparently the best 20ish choice, from what I saw the beat they ZS5 in mids and details.


Thanks, I was just looking at these, they look like a good choice....

I do not see many people talking about the ZST anymore, is that because everyone has been-there-done-that? 
Or is it because KZ has so many other/better options out now?


----------



## Slater

kramercosmo said:


> Hmm... what should i buy?
> 
> Tennmak pro + Piano earpices 20€
> 
> ...



Tennmak seems way behind the times friend. Other manufacturers are leaving them in the dust. I don’t see them mentioned or recommend very often anymore.

Unless I’m missing something...


----------



## Aparker2005 (Mar 28, 2018)

Edited


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Tennmak seems way behind the times friend. Other manufacturers are leaving them in the dust. I don’t see them mentioned or recommend very often anymore.
> 
> Unless I’m missing something...


Tennmak Pro dual-dynamic still stands good and has been produced quite a long time by now. They should be similar to ATE signature.


----------



## oyobass (Mar 28, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> I just don't know if I get a TRN BT cable with the ZSR as nobody confirmed the SQ is as good as wired


Wireless, even the best, most expensive, is never as good as wired. Someday, maybe, but not today.
Choose wireless for convenience, wired for the best SQ. After having said all that,  Bluetooth can sound very good, just not *as* good...


----------



## vegetaleb

oyobass said:


> Wireless, even the best, most expensive, is never as good as wired. Someday, maybe, but not today.
> Choose wireless for convenience, wired for the best SQ. After having said all that,  Bluetooth can sound very good, just not *as* good...



Thanks!
Yep aptx HD is very promising but it's very hard to find a device that has it, perhaps in the future like you said.
I guess I am gonna just buy the ZSR


----------



## Aparker2005

I'm seeing more shops adding the ZS10. I'm guessing just check feedback like on ebay and try it out. Always try to be careful ordering nowadays


----------



## jeromeaparis (Mar 28, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> I have exactly both, the thing is, i can't really organize them inside the case, and i end up with the same result as putting them on my pocket or something.


ZST is very easy to roll, cause there is no "memory wire" on the stock cable.
You begin to roll the cable starting with the plug side, around 4 fingers, then use a "velcro" tape as the "3M universal klettbinder 12mm".
With ZS6 & ZSR you need a longer box, ZS6 is the most difficult cause they must not touch each other in the box if you want keep them as new...


----------



## Bartig

Aparker2005 said:


> Are both sellers..**** and Nick ok on Ali express?


Yes, I find them to be reliable. And other buyers too, looking at the reviews.


----------



## DSebastiao

jeromeaparis said:


> ZST is very easy to roll, cause there is no "memory wire" on the stock cable.
> You begin to roll the cable starting with the plug side, around 4 fingers, then use a "velcro" tape as the "3M universal klettbinder 12mm".
> With ZS6 & ZSR you need a longer box, ZS6 is the most difficult cause they must not touch each other in the box if you want keep them as new...



Thanks, believe it or not, my ZST's have memory wire, with stock cable. I was actually thining of doing that but putting the wire inside that pocket, but your solution might be better as the wire ends up protecting the iem's.


----------



## Aparker2005

Went ahead and got the zs10s and a case. Seems like I read these ship with a premium copper cable? Could be wrong...


----------



## RvTrav

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, believe it or not, my ZST's have memory wire, with stock cable. I was actually thining of doing that but putting the wire inside that pocket, but your solution might be better as the wire ends up protecting the iem's.



I use Betty Crocker containers that I purchase for 2 for $1.25 at Dollar Tree in Canada as another option for storage at home.  I use plastic Spiral Wire Wrap in stead of velco to hold the warped cable together.  I cut the Spiral Wrap into short lengths that clip around the cable easily.  A relatively cheap and effective option for managing your collection at home.


----------



## ricemanhk

ZS10 on taobao is being launched at the same price as ZS6.  Yet funny enough the taobao price is higher than the equivalent ali price....sigh
will wait till more shops have it and start giving discounts before i pull the trigger, right now only the official KZ taobao store has it.


----------



## vladstef (Mar 28, 2018)

ricemanhk said:


> ZS10 on taobao is being launched at the same price as ZS6.  Yet funny enough the taobao price is higher than the equivalent ali price....sigh
> will wait till more shops have it and start giving discounts before i pull the trigger, right now only the official KZ taobao store has it.



Yeah, I think we've all been tricked and that ZS10 is going to cost much less than we expected when it first showed up. I think that regular price is going to be 40ish and with frequent drops to <30$. Pre-order discount is probably going to be exactly opposite of that. One could argue that exactly this happened with ZS6 for example, but it took a while for ZS6 to drop in price and I think that it will be much quicker this time around.

Maybe it's just the numbers, I've never seen this kind of interest - we are talking thousands of units at this point, just a few days of not even a regular sale.


----------



## oyobass

jeromeaparis said:


> ZST is very easy to roll, cause there is no "memory wire" on the stock cable.
> You begin to roll the cable starting with the plug side, around 4 fingers, then use a "velcro" tape as the "3M universal klettbinder 12mm".
> With ZS6 & ZSR you need a longer box, ZS6 is the most difficult cause they must not touch each other in the box if you want keep them as new...


My ZST purchased about a year ago or so came with a memory wire cable... hmmm.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The early release ZST's were memory wire free and had little plastic weights instead.


----------



## Otto Motor

wavid said:


> I have decided to buy my first pair of KZ IEMS (maybe a few)
> 
> I wanted to get a pair of ZS5 but I have read that most are now v2 which have issues...
> I read somewhere that the ZS6 are similar to the ZS5v1?
> ...



My 5 cents.

I would not recommend the ZS5 v2 as they are not universally liked.
The ZS6 are also tricky: excellent haptic but the piercing treble is not for everyone. More for the analyst than for pleasure.
The ZSR surprised me positively. They have a very pleasant sound signature for my ears. Well worth the $25 CAD I paid. I like using them.
The ZS10 are an unknown. For sure won't they have the great metal feel of the ZS6.

And if you want to avoid risk this, get the ibasso IT01...head and shoulders above the KZs and even hailed to be in a league with the $800 Sennheiser ie800. Got mine yesterday...blew me out of my boots. Fun tuning with a contagious, addictive sound signature. A keeper.


----------



## Otto Motor

jeromeaparis said:


> ZST is very easy to roll, cause there is no "memory wire" on the stock cable.
> You begin to roll the cable starting with the plug side, around 4 fingers, then use a "velcro" tape as the "3M universal klettbinder 12mm".
> With ZS6 & ZSR you need a longer box, ZS6 is the most difficult cause they must not touch each other in the box if you want keep them as new...


Hey, where did you get the wide containers from? I only have the square ones.


----------



## bhazard

ZS10 going for a great price in the anniversary Aliexpress sale.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 28, 2018)

If this photo is anything to go by then the ZS10 will be shipped with KZ's bronze upgrade cable. If 'tis so, then KZ is hearing our belly-aching about the stock cables that were previously included (the last 5 or 6 models) and they've responded accordingly. 


 

 

This would be great news because:
1) it proves KZ listens to us.
2) bronze cables don't turn green

It will be interesting to see if this means anything:



...though "self select" seems to suggest get your own upgrade cable.

At any rate, unless we hear otherwise it might be best to stick with KZ's own cables or TRN's since they have the 90° angle that the ZS10 was designed to be coupled with. 90% of aftermarket upgrade cables fit perpendicular to the housing.


 
Perpendicular cables may rise unnaturally over the ear and flop around if the pin housings don't have this angle.




 
May or may not be an issue. Some of you folks have upgrade cables with the perpendicular pin housings. Feedback would be appreciated by all.


----------



## charlescc2

vegetaleb said:


> The game is On!
> Which seller is better? NiceHCK or AK Audio? AK is cheaper of about 1.5$ so I can keep the change for something else on AE but if the seller is slow to send the item or does error then I will stick to Nice HCK



My first upgrade cable was with AK and it was a pleasant buying experience.  Made the purchase on Oct. 28, cable arrived Nov. 8.  ePacket delivery has mostly to do with how fast it arrived, but it was free.  If you're getting something from AK cheaper and the shipping option isn't significantly slower I'd say you're safe with them.


----------



## DSebastiao

DocHoliday said:


> At any rate, unless we hear otherwise it might be best to stick with KZ's own cables or TRN's since they have the 90° angle that the ZS10 was designed to be coupled with. 90% of aftermarket upgrade cables fit perpendicular to the housing.
> 
> May or may not be an issue. Some of you folks have upgrade cables with the perpendicular pin housings. Feedback would be appreciated by all.



What are those TRN cables? Is it these ones? https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...ado-a-Cabo-Earphone-Atualize/32842771094.html


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 28, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> What are those TRN cables? Is it these ones? https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...ado-a-Cabo-Earphone-Atualize/32842771094.html



Those will work just fine but they do turn green from oxidation rather quickly. Mine have, anyway.

TRN in white or Black for under $10
https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/32848283609.html?trace=storeDetail2msiteDetail


----------



## Robert13x (Mar 28, 2018)

ZS6 or Tin Audio T2? I have the Meizu EP51 right now and I love them (but the battery is not that great anymore).
I have a budget of 55-60$ and I want something with a good build quality (so metal, I guess)

And if you would still pick the ZS6, what tips and cable should I buy? (max 10$ for each)


----------



## charlescc2 (Mar 28, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Hey, where did you get the wide containers from? I only have the square ones.



Yeah seeing those photos made me want a wider case too.  About to get a couple of these while the AE sale is going on:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...-Accessories-Headset-Storage/32705808561.html

Looks pretty slick, comes with a metal loop for hanging, costs $1.60 ea.  Buying more than one forces you to change from free shipping to ePacket, but that's not necessarily a bad thing with shipping time difference.

Edit: The dimensions need to be taken into consideration now that I've looked at the exact specifications.  This is 100 mm x 70 mm x 30 mm.  Other square cases with KZ logos have sides with length of 85 mm and height of 40 mm.  I'm not sure whether this may be problematic for bigger IEMs.


----------



## zozito

DocHoliday said:


> Those will work just fine but they do turn green from oxidation rather quickly. Mine have, anyway.
> 
> TRN in white or Black for under $10
> https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/32848283609.html?trace=storeDetail2msiteDetail


I like the black more, but It may be that the silver one is better...May I go with the latter?


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 28, 2018)

zozito said:


> I like the black more, but It may be that the silver one is better...May I go with the latter?



Either one is fine. My silver TRN has not turned green, but I haven't used it yet.

Just to be clear
I have a KZ silver upgrade that hasn't turned green because I haven't used it and I have a KZ silver upgrade that has turned green because I have used it. Both KZ cables are eighteen months old. I believe the oxidation process accelerates as the cable is used (as the cable bends  oxygen permeates the acrylic coating and the copper wiring reacts).


----------



## DSebastiao

DocHoliday said:


> Either one is fine. My silver TRN has not turned green, but I haven't used it yet.
> 
> Just to be clear
> I have a KZ silver upgrade that hasn't turned green because I haven't used it and I have a KZ silver upgrade that has turned green because I have used it. Both KZ cables are eighteen months old. I believe the oxidation process accelerates as the cable is used (as the cable bends  oxygen permeates the acrylic coating and the copper wiring reacts).



But are those both like the one i linked? Because there's two types, there's the thinner one, and the one with 4 silver wires.


----------



## kirkftl

Grabbed zs10 and the trn silver cable for 40usd. Now to wait.


----------



## zozito

DocHoliday said:


> Either one is fine. My silver TRN has not turned green, but I haven't used it yet.
> 
> Just to be clear
> I have a KZ silver upgrade that hasn't turned green because I haven't used it and I have a KZ silver upgrade that has turned green because I have used it. Both KZ cables are eighteen months old. I believe the oxidation process accelerates as the cable is used (as the cable bends  oxygen permeates the acrylic coating and the copper wiring reacts).


I'm using silver kz cables from the very moment kz zs5 came out to market...and no green signs either.


----------



## oyobass

zozito said:


> I'm using silver kz cables from the very moment kz zs5 came out to market...and no green signs either.


One of the KZ silver plated copper cables I got has the lead to one earphone going green, while the other is still bright silver. Oh well, at least I can tell my left from my right more easily now...


----------



## wavid (Mar 28, 2018)

bhazard said:


> ZS10 going for a great price in the anniversary Aliexpress sale.


Which seller do you see it for a great price on Aliexpress? I can only see it for £40 for some reason

EDIT: Sorry bhazard, it looks like your response was deleted, I hope I did not get you in any trouble

EDIT2: BTW could someone PM me what "the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to" is and why it is "the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to" so I do not get anyone else/myself in trouble?


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 28, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> But are those both like the one i linked? Because there's two types, there's the thinner one, and the one with 4 silver wires.



The one you linked.....
https://m.pt.aliexpress.com/item/32...&terminal_id=cbb64a9d5f47470389347423475ddb52

.....is on the right.



 
The other two are the KZ ZST/ZSR/ES3 upgrade cable. 


 
The one still in the package is the TRN silver upgrade.


----------



## Makahl

I received the Tennmak ear tips (similar to KZ turbo ones) today, I really liked it but these are a bit shallow.

I'm trying to figure out a better way to extend the stem to get a proper length. Adding o-rings isn't a good option for IEMs without lips since it can't hold a secure fit. However, no problems so far using on ZST.


----------



## DSebastiao

That color looks... bad, doesn't really look like oxidation for me.


----------



## kramercosmo

Well...ordered kz zs10, trn v20 and the upgraded silver cable.

Can't wait.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I am getting ZS10, Tin Audio T2, **** PT15, a cable and few cases. The waiting game starts now


----------



## oyobass

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am getting ZS10, Tin Audio T2, **** PT15, a cable and few cases. The waiting game starts now



The Waiting -Tom Petty (RIP) and the heartbreakers:


----------



## Slater (May 21, 2020)

wavid said:


> EDIT2: BTW could someone PM me what "the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to" is and why it is "the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to" so I do not get anyone else/myself in trouble?




Here's the boiled down summary of banned topics:

*Sellers*:
- Easy Earphones (ie EE)
- W.o.o.e.a.s.y
- WTSUN Audio

*Brands*:
- Y.i.n.Y.o.o (all products made by them)
- DQSM (all products made by them)
- S.e.n.f.e.r (all products made by them)

*Individual Products:*
- Knockoff/fake products (aka DIY versions, counterfeits, etc)
- Revonext QT2, QT2S, QT3, QT3S, QT5 and RX8 models ONLY**

_** OTHER Revonext models are OK though, and NOT banned (ie NEX202, NEX602, etc)._

"Banned" means no discussion/reviews about the banned products, no mention of the sellers/product names (including indirect or ‘roundabout’ references like Y**Y** etc), no links to the products on shopping websites like Aliexpress/Amazon, etc.

There are other banned sellers/websites, but the above list are most appropriate ones when discussing ChiFi.

If you want to read the background story of how they got banned, as well as the full list of posting guidelines (from the admins themselves), here are the links you should read:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1859#post-14025217
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-1458#post-13634842
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...iems-amps-dacs.684159/page-2008#post-12676708
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-portable-headphones-and-iems.820747/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-690#post-14224378
And here’s the info on the Revonext stuff:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...reference-list.805930/page-1155#post-14889345

_Mods, please don't delete this post. I'm trying to be helpful until HF gets stickies in place!_


----------



## bsoplinger

Well at least I didn't get a warning PM this time around for mentioning the unmentionable because I now know to edit the quote and make sure that it isn't even in the quote. Just seems a bit catch-22 wanting to keep it low key and not make a big deal about it yet still removing posts mentioning there. 

Back to on topic. I decided to forgo getting the pre-sale of the ZS10. I got burned by getting the ZS6 for over $40 when it first came out only to see Gearbest sales under $25 less than 2 months later. Add to the problem that the sound wasn't very different from the ZS5 v2 I already had. So I'm going to wait and see if KZ actually put some effort into the crossover and tuning. 

Instead I'll keep being amazed at how much changing the opamp in my little bear tube amp b4 to the sample Burson sent me of the V5i and work on getting a new nice write up and review for them for it. I was trying a number of different IEMs not just my favorite choices just to get an overall impression of what the changes do in real terms. I had initially decided against any of the KZ I have because they fall into 2 roughly 2 groups: under $8 single driver designs or the brighter than I prefer but wouldn't say they scream ZS5 v2 and ZS6. I was thinking of what simple hybrids I have, single DD + single BA. Totally forgot about the ZSR I have. So they're on the listening pile now.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> I decided to forgo getting the pre-sale of the ZS10. I got burned by getting the ZS6 for over $40 when it first came out only to see Gearbest sales under $25 less than 2 months later. Add to the problem that the sound wasn't very different from the ZS5 v2 I already had. So I'm going to wait and see if KZ actually put some effort into the crossover and tuning.



+1


----------



## Aparker2005

I'm not sure I've ever been so excited about getting some new ears. The zst wave es3 both destroy my shure se215s  

Just wish kz had a longer cable. The shure longer cable comes really in handy on my drum kit!


----------



## TLDRonin

Do we know what size the nozzle of the ZS10 will be? Is it reasonable to assume 5mm foam tips would fit?


----------



## DocHoliday

Aparker2005 said:


> I'm not sure I've ever been so excited about getting some new ears. The zst wave es3 both destroy my shure se215s
> 
> Just wish kz had a longer cable. The shure longer cable comes really in handy on my drum kit!





Aparker2005 said:


> Just wish kz had a longer cable.



$4.99

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N...dpPl=1&dpID=41hnCaHCX5L&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1


----------



## Roboturner913

What would be the best KZ model to try for a kind of warm sound? For certain kinds of music I'm listening to lately, I like a bit of a midbass hump. My Awei ES800s are pretty amazing sounding but they make my ears hurt after a while, looking for something with a similar sound that's a little more comfortable.


----------



## CoiL

Otto Motor said:


> The ZSR surprised me positively. They have a very pleasant sound signature for my ears. Well worth the $25 CAD I paid. I like using them.
> 
> And if you want to avoid risk this, get the ibasso IT01...head and shoulders above the KZs and even hailed to be in a league with the $800 Sennheiser ie800. Got mine yesterday...blew me out of my boots. Fun tuning with a contagious, addictive sound signature. A keeper.


+1


----------



## ricemanhk

Gonna get the ZS10, more shops have them on taobao now, debating blue vs black haha...

BTW the seller highly recommended the TRN aptx bluetooth, did anyone here try it with KZ phones?  I tried searching but someone said @Slater tried it but I can't find any reference to the post.  The TRN BT costs like 2/3 of the ZS10s tho LOL so want to make sure they are worth it...


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 29, 2018)

Roboturner913 said:


> What would be the best KZ model to try for a kind of warm sound? For certain kinds of music I'm listening to lately, I like a bit of a midbass hump. My Awei ES800s are pretty amazing sounding but they make my ears hurt after a while, looking for something with a similar sound that's a little more comfortable.






$15 or less.
Be sure to remove the foam in the nozzle if you want more treble and soundstage. 
Best fitting budget IEM if they "fit".

https://m.gearbest.com/on-ear-over-ear-headphones/pp_436717.html?wid=21


----------



## CoiL (Mar 29, 2018)

Doc, sorry, I have to disagree with ZS3 recommendation for warmer sound. Last two units I got from GB are both clear V-shape signature with quite muddy/bleeding bass and recessed mids.
Also, ZS3 quality is quite bad because of crushed/slammed shrink-tubes used as sound-guide. I would rather recommend EDR2 or ATE.


----------



## TLDRonin

ricemanhk said:


> Gonna get the ZS10, more shops have them on taobao now, debating blue vs black haha...


I personally grabbed the black. The shade of blue they used kind of looks like a toy-like color in my eyes, and contrasts weird with the red circuit board imo.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 29, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Doc, sorry, I have to disagree with ZS3 recommendation for warmer sound. Last two units I got from GB are both clear V-shape signature with quite muddy/bleeding bass and recessed mids.
> Also, ZS3 quality is quite bad because of crushed/slammed shrink-tubes used as sound-guide. I would rather recommend EDR2 or ATE.



I would agree with you on the ATE, but not on the EDR2 which is about as neutral as KZ's come. To my ears there is more than enough detail across the board (top to botton) to have them qualify as a warmer sound signature. I'll have to pull the EDR2 out to confirm this but I remember them as neither bright nor warm, but more balanced than almost any other KZ in production two years ago. 

 

I keep forgetting that the sound signature in my ZS3 is not necessarily the sound signature in the current ZS3. My ZS3 never had foam inserts, has slightly forward mids and is more akin to the HDS1 with more bass and a slightly wider soundstage. If the current ZS3 does not sound like my description then you may be correct and the ATE/ATR would be the best choice, but I don't know if the current ATR sounds like the ATR(i) or if the current ATE(v) sounds like the ATR(i) or where the continuity is at this point. I remember you commenting a while back that currently both ATE and ATR sound the same but they sound the same as which previous iteration?


 

B9's reviews notes:


Spoiler



The midrange is probably the ZS3s most accomplished aspect, topping KZ's own ATE. Vocals and instruments have excellent presence, sounding natural and detailed. I absolutely adore the way female vocals are presented. Warm and inviting, and slightly more forward than male vocals, they pull you in and delicately caress your ears. Give Adele's 'Rolling in the Deep' or 'Send My Love' a go and you'll see what I mean. Outstanding midrange here.

Bass on the ZS3 is a bit of a mixed bag for me personally, but not because it's poorly done. On a technical level it is more or less outstanding; excellent extension, well balanced, surprisingly quick, and awesomely punchy (especially at high volumes). It's even got lots of texture. My issue is that the ZS3 can be overly bassy, something I was hoping KZ would avoid this time around. They're not bass-head earphones, but can be bass cannons when called upon.



Loomis' reviews notes:


Spoiler



Soundwise, I'd characterize these as "basshead," in the sense that their defining characteristic is their voluminous, deep and impactful low end. Subbass and midbass are well-controlled and quite fast, if not as well-articulated as the best sets, and there's little bleed-over into other frequencies. However, the sheer quantity of the low end gives the ZS3 a slightly less-than-seamless quality, as if you're listening to a separate subwoofer rather than  perfectly integrated drivers. In this regard they remind me of the Velodyne V-Pulse, another good IEM titled a bit too much to the bottom end. I should probably try eq-ing or trying different tips with the view to better balancing the bass.

Mids are very rich and clean-sounding; voices and guitars are presented with a lot of body but still sound quite natural. Treble is a little warmed over but likewise has a lot of body and good clarity; it's not especially extended or detailed, but neither is it sharp or strident. Resolution is not close to the level of say, the XE800, tho drums, piano and other quick transients are quite well-rendered. In general, the ZS3 seems to be going for a big, expansive sound which eschews microdetail and intimacy for more excitement.

Where these really excel is in soundstage and imaging/instrument placement, which (like the ED9) is incredible--you can place the location of each musician precisely on a very wide stage. In this regard they remind me of the Tennmak Pro and Piano, two similarly-configured  IEMs which also present a very big, accurate stage. However, the ZS3 has better-controlled bass than the Pro or the Piano, and as a result perhaps better overall clarity (the Pro and especially the Piano do have more highend resolution/detail, however).

Compared to my favorite KZ, the ED9, the ZS3 are warmer and has more and tighter bass; the ED9 sounds considerably smaller but more transparent/natural.



My own review notes:


Spoiler



Choosing the correct eartips for the ZS3 is crucial. KZ's olive-shaped silicone eartips never give me a proper seal so I had to put those out to pasture and bring in my "Philips" cone-shaped silicone eartips which always seal well (see photos). They do not obstruct the nozzle opening AT ALL so I will get everything the ZS3 has to offer. A smaller bore silicone eartip would concentrate some frequencies and a Comply Foam Tip would absorb treble and skew the presentation. I want to hear the ZS3 exactly the way it was tuned, in all its glory and/or flaws.

I decided to test the earphones on two different Wolfson equipped sources....

The ZS3 have a more full-bodied presentation through the Fiio X3i! I find that the ZS3 can come across a bit heavy handed with recordings that were mastered with thicker bass. The best way for eveyone reading this review to experience what I am describing is this: Go to YouTube, type in "Fleetwood Mac Topic", then scroll to "Rhiannon" and listen intently. Next, type in "The Icicle Works Topic", then scroll to "Whisper to a Scream (Birds Fly)" and pick the 3 minute 49 second track. You will hear a marked difference in the tone and timber of the bass for these two tracks. This is what I am referring to when I talk about how the music was mastered. The footprint of the bass in "Rhiannon" is a bit prominent. A warmer leaning DAP will present "Rhiannon" with bass that will sound far too forward. Conversely, listening to "Whisper To A Scream (When Birds Fly), you are effortlessly seduced by each instrument. There is no distraction by any particular frequency and you just melt into the music. The point to this exercise is to understand that a brighter-leaning DAP will give a more even presentation of differently mastered tracks. In short, the ZS3 will perform at its best when paired with a brighter sounding DAP. With a warm-leaning DAP the ZS3 could potentially be described as a basshead IEM. Furthermore, if you tend to prefer foam eartips the smooth treble in some tracks would simply get buried.....

Knowledge Zenith has fashioned from a single 8mm dynamic driver a clean, wide, full bodied, warm yet well detailed in-ear monitor. Everything is captured in a natural and.....unelectronic (just made up a new word) way.

To my ears the ZS3 sound like the KZ HDS1 coupled to a very good subwoofer (with a perfect balance of sub-bass and mid-bass). As good as the HDS1 is, it plays second fiddle to the ZS3 for me (based on my sound signature preference). If you prefer an IEM with a flat response across the frequency range you will, likely, disagree with me. I prefer my music to sound alive and dynamic and flat response IEMs typically aren't engaging enough for me. Earphones should ALWAYS be about enjoying your music collection. The HDS1 has slightly more extension at the top end. Nonetheless, the ZS3 delivers the top end in a very clean and organic manner. When comparing these two IEMs, the HDS1 can sound bright, but bright is not how I would describe the HDS1. The HDS1 is more neutral with a slight emphasis in the mid-bass and lower midrange. The ZS3 bass compliments the mids and highs very well resulting in a superb and coherent presentation not found in this price category and its single 8mm dynamic driver is definitely tuned better than either of KZ's dual dynamic driver IEMs (KZ ZS2 & KZ DT5).....



At some point I'll have to upload my review which is more in line with B9's and Loomis', but be aware that the three of us (B9, Loomis and me) have the ZS3 in its earliest iteration. I've been adding old skool KZ reviews one by one to the head-fi roster so mine will be posted at some point.

In the meantime, the lack of continuity at KZ makes one hesitant and the persistent lack of denoting different iterations give new meaning to the term "Lost in translation".


----------



## CoiL

Well, my EDR2 was also kind of neutral sided with good mids but they sounded "intimate & foward" and somewhat warm. I bought my EDR2 long back, shortly after release.
I don`t know about current release though. 
About ATE - current 5th gen ATE sounds same to current latest ATR (which has red-shelled ATE 5th gen driver inside).


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> Gonna get the ZS10, more shops have them on taobao now, debating blue vs black haha...
> 
> BTW the seller highly recommended the TRN aptx bluetooth, did anyone here try it with KZ phones?  I tried searching but someone said @Slater tried it but I can't find any reference to the post.  The TRN BT costs like 2/3 of the ZS10s tho LOL so want to make sure they are worth it...



Yeah, they worked fine for me. And I liked it way better than the KZ cable.

I had no way to test aptX though. Regular bluetooth worked fine.

Obviously I can't speak for the ZS10 either, since it's not even released yet.


----------



## snip3r77

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am getting ZS10, Tin Audio T2, **** PT15, a cable and few cases. The waiting game starts now


I bought the same less Zs10


----------



## snip3r77

bsoplinger said:


> Well at least I didn't get a warning PM this time around for mentioning the unmentionable because I now know to edit the quote and make sure that it isn't even in the quote. Just seems a bit catch-22 wanting to keep it low key and not make a big deal about it yet still removing posts mentioning there.
> 
> Back to on topic. I decided to forgo getting the pre-sale of the ZS10. I got burned by getting the ZS6 for over $40 when it first came out only to see Gearbest sales under $25 less than 2 months later. Add to the problem that the sound wasn't very different from the ZS5 v2 I already had. So I'm going to wait and see if KZ actually put some effort into the crossover and tuning.
> 
> Instead I'll keep being amazed at how much changing the opamp in my little bear tube amp b4 to the sample Burson sent me of the V5i and work on getting a new nice write up and review for them for it. I was trying a number of different IEMs not just my favorite choices just to get an overall impression of what the changes do in real terms. I had initially decided against any of the KZ I have because they fall into 2 roughly 2 groups: under $8 single driver designs or the brighter than I prefer but wouldn't say they scream ZS5 v2 and ZS6. I was thinking of what simple hybrids I have, single DD + single BA. Totally forgot about the ZSR I have. So they're on the listening pile now.



Wouldn't trust this trashy zx company no more. There are so many capable chifis now


----------



## Otto Motor

Roboturner913 said:


> What would be the best KZ model to try for a kind of warm sound? For certain kinds of music I'm listening to lately, I like a bit of a midbass hump. My Awei ES800s are pretty amazing sounding but they make my ears hurt after a while, looking for something with a similar sound that's a little more comfortable.



I'd say the ZSR: warm and pleasant right up from the hips (bass). My ZS3 (Oct. 2016 vintage) sound like sh...harsh and dark...but independently, the ZS3 model has been superseded by now.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 29, 2018)

zozito said:


> I'm using silver kz cables from the very moment kz zs5 came out to market...and no green signs either.


I live in a semi-arid to arid climate...yes, Calgary has very low humidity all year round. I never looked at the Tinaudio T2's cable for green discolouration until somebody mentioned it. I found the two strands greenish down to the splitter, and not from thereon to the plug. This has not changed in the last three months. I therefore speculate, the patina had developed in humid Asia already.

My silver KZ upgrade cables didn't turn green because they are silver, not copper.


----------



## ricemanhk

Black ZS10 and the TRN aptx BT cable ordered!  They said regular cable is in stock, the one with mic needs 3 days.  Hopefully I get it before my vacation end of next week...otherwise it'll be another week before I can get my hands on them. Really hoping for a good experience given how well KZ did with the ZSR...

The shop did say the stock cable is a bit different to ZST ZSR ones.  Will report back when I get them...


----------



## vladstef

Otto Motor said:


> I live in a semi-arid to arid climate...yes, Calgary has very low humidity all year round. I never looked at the Tinaudio T2's cable for green discolouration until somebody mentioned it. I found the two strands greenish down to the splitter, and not from thereon to the plug. This has not changed in the last three months. I therefore speculate, the patina had developed in humid Asia already.
> 
> My silver KZ upgrade cables didn't turn green because they are silver, not copper.



Pure silver cables are EXTREMELY expensive, because you know, silver... 99% of 'silver' cables are silver plated copper and thus they can turn green depending on how the plating process was done. There are many silver looking cheap cables out there from KZ/TRN and others and they all have the chance to turn green, some only do a little bit in particular areas, some go completely green, some remain very clean looking even after a while.
I have KZ 8 braid cable and TinAudio cable - both show no signs of greening.


----------



## Chronofreak

I'm currently using the KZ6 with ZST cables because they sound more pleasing than stock. Somehow, the KZ6 stock cables make my music sound too spacious, like someone had widened the stereo separation too much on a mix. I have double checked that the pins are the right way in. 

Anyone experiencing this issue with ZS6 + stock cables?


----------



## oyobass

Chronofreak said:


> I'm currently using the KZ6 with ZST cables because they sound more pleasing than stock. Somehow, the KZ6 stock cables make my music sound too spacious, like someone had widened the stereo separation too much on a mix. I have double checked that the pins are the right way in.
> 
> Anyone experiencing this issue with ZS6 + stock cables?


I have not experienced that, but it sounds almost as if the stock cable has been miswired with polarity wrong on either the left or right side. That will cause the extra wide soundstage, with an apparent "hole" in the center where it just doesn't sound right.


----------



## HungryPanda

Go here to make sure: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## Wiljen

oyobass said:


> I have not experienced that, but it sounds almost as if the stock cable has been miswired with polarity wrong on either the left or right side. That will cause the extra wide soundstage, with an apparent "hole" in the center where it just doesn't sound right.



I'll second that one -  either one connector may be backwards or the cable is reversed on one side would be my guess too and since other cables since to fix it, that points more to the cable than the connection on the headphone.  I had one of my Kz earphones arrive with the connection reversed in the housing.  Luckily the Zs6 is easy to dismantle and reverse.  Would have been harder on some other glue together shells.


----------



## oyobass

Wiljen said:


> I'll second that one -  either one connector may be backwards or the cable is reversed on one side would be my guess too and since other cables since to fix it, that points more to the cable than the connection on the headphone.  I had one of my Kz earphones arrive with the connection reversed in the housing.  Luckily the Zs6 is easy to dismantle and reverse.  Would have been harder on some other glue together shells.


First thing to check is @Slaters excellent post on putting the cables in correctly: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067

@Chronofreak, you may have already checked this, but I thought it might be worth looking at.


----------



## Chronofreak

HungryPanda said:


> Go here to make sure: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php



Thanks Panda, I tried the Wiring Test and indeed the Center sounded far apart and Twisted was comfortably in the middle.



Wiljen said:


> I'll second that one -  either one connector may be backwards or the cable is reversed on one side would be my guess too and since other cables since to fix it, that points more to the cable than the connection on the headphone.  I had one of my Kz earphones arrive with the connection reversed in the housing.  Luckily the Zs6 is easy to dismantle and reverse.  Would have been harder on some other glue together shells.



Thanks Wiljen. So from results of the Wiring Test, I suspect it's a bad cable. Guess I'll go shop for an upgrade cable!


----------



## bsoplinger

Chronofreak said:


> Thanks Panda, I tried the Wiring Test and indeed the Center sounded far apart and Twisted was comfortably in the middle.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Wiljen. So from results of the Wiring Test, I suspect it's a bad cable. Guess I'll go shop for an upgrade cable!


If its a miswired cable you can just trim down the square end to be rounded and then connect it correctly. There isn't a need to purchase a new cable. I can understand if you want a new correct cable in which case think of my suggestion as the tape on glasses until the new pair arrives.


----------



## DSebastiao

DocHoliday said:


> I would agree with you on the ATE, but not on the EDR2 which is about as neutral as KZ's come. To my ears there is more than enough detail across the board (top to botton) to have them qualify as a warmer sound signature. I'll have to pull the EDR2 out to confirm this but I remember them as neither bright nor warm, but more balanced than almost any other KZ in production two years ago...



What are you using to secure the cable in the first pic?


----------



## jeromeaparis

Otto Motor said:


> Hey, where did you get the wide containers from? I only have the square ones.


From ebay and GearBest !


Roboturner913 said:


> What would be the best KZ model to try for a kind of warm sound? For certain kinds of music I'm listening to lately, I like a bit of a midbass hump. My Awei ES800s are pretty amazing sounding but they make my ears hurt after a while, looking for something with a similar sound that's a little more comfortable.


KZ ZS2 and ZS3 have a very warm sound.
  ZS3 has a powerfull dynamic sound, good bass, voices warm and not recessed, no piercing high at all (but few trebles)
KZ ZSR is relativly warm, strong detailed bass & infra, natural voices, detailed highs.
KZ ATE has a clear sound (for me not warm) with good mediums, very good for listening outside, 
ZS2 is warmer than ZS3 but ZS3 has more punch.


----------



## DocHoliday

DSebastiao said:


> What are you using to secure the cable in the first pic?


$6 per roll (different colors available)



 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004...dpPl=1&dpID=51sL7JyN0JL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1


----------



## bhazard

Went back to the ZSR today.With a slight bit of EQ in the upper mids and treble, it sounds fantastic. Really has me thinking that I don't truly need $200+ IEMs anymore. Commuting is rough on my IEMs, and I listen to music with full sized headphones at home.


----------



## Wiljen

bhazard said:


> Went back to the ZSR today.With a slight bit of EQ in the upper mids and treble, it sounds fantastic. Really has me thinking that I don't truly need $200+ IEMs anymore. Commuting is rough on my IEMs, and I listen to music with full sized headphones at home.



If the Zs10 can compete on even footing with the Brainwavz b400 and Magaosi K5, I'll agree that I no longer need the $200+ ones.  Until then, I think I'll keep those two in my normal rotation.  And for some reason that even I can't fully comprehend, something inside me keeps nudging me to buy an Andromeda.


----------



## Thumpsy

Resistance is futile.    Black zs10 ordered.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 29, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> If the Zs10 can compete on even footing with the Brainwavz b400 and Magaosi K5, I'll agree that I no longer need the $200+ ones.  Until then, I think I'll keep those two in my normal rotation.  And for some reason that even I can't fully comprehend, something inside me keeps nudging me to buy an Andromeda.



My hope is that KZ continues their gentle restraint on the treble as they did with the ZSR. If the ZS10 treble is slightly restrained and the mids are slightly more forward than the ZSR, then how clean the overall sound signature is will rest squarely on the shoulders of KZ's choice for a DD. This is conjecture on my part but IMHO the proper choice would be KZ's 8mm DD to bring in the low end because it's faster and cleaner than KZ's 10mm DD. No need to pour in the heavy cream found in the ZSR; this time only half&half will be necessary for a clean, clear and vivid presentation.

If that's a 10mm dynamic driver in the photo then we'll probably get an improved ED9 sound signature. If it's an 8mm dynamic driver then I'll probably get my wish for an improved HDS1 sound signature. Either sound signature would be fantastic but I'm hoping for the latter.



 

Seems as though Knowledge Zenith has focused on tuning the ZS10's for over a year so they really should be quite special. We'll see. 

Tic toc....tic toc....


----------



## rayliam80 (Mar 29, 2018)

I just saw this. I don't think anyone has posted this yet but KZ ED15....






I saw this from Hill Audio's FB page....

They're taking pre-orders for it. Wonder when we'll see it from other sellers....


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 29, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> I just saw this. I don't think anyone has posted this yet but KZ ED15....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been waiting for those little puppies to show up. The ZS10 and this ED15 are both on the top of my list. A micro-driver coupled with a BA and semi-open housing? Your boy is stoked!


----------



## Nikostr8 (Mar 29, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> I just saw this. I don't think anyone has posted this yet but KZ ED15....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its already in kz official store in aliexpress. Around12-15 euro without/with mic cable.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 29, 2018)

Ha....

...and how about the new ZS4?!?!
1BA + 1DD

.

 

The ED15





 

 

 


Also, it looks like maybe KZ is actually switching to the twisted/braided cables for stock cables, finally retiring the ol' rubbermaid stuff they've been using for three years. That'll be a welcome upgrade if it's true.


----------



## vladstef

DocHoliday said:


> I've been waiting for those little puppies to show up. The ZS10 and this ED15 are both on the top of my list. A micro-driver coupled with a BA and semi-open housing? Your boy is stoked!



ED15 is interesting, there is a promo image showing that BA covers mid range and treble which is interesting if true. I will argue that it's not a semi-open housing, just a larger than average back vent.


----------



## Roboturner913 (Mar 29, 2018)

Does anybody have experience with the IE8 clones?

I got the ZSE today. I like them a lot. Remind me a little bit of the Yamaha EPH100s I had a while ago. Super revealing midrange and great bass but lacking a little bit of that midbass energy I'm looking for to go with some of the more lo-fi recordings I've been listening to lately.

That ED15 looks like another one I need to try. In theory it should be comfortable.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Nikostr8 said:


> Its already in kz official store in aliexpress. Around12-15 euro without/with mic cable.



oh @#$%. Ordered. The wait for this and the ZS10 will be agonizing


----------



## HungryPanda

I had to as well


----------



## Lifted Andreas

DocHoliday said:


> I've been waiting for those little puppies to show up. The ZS10 and this ED15 are both on the top of my list. A micro-driver coupled with a BA and semi-open housing? Your boy is stoked!



I wonder what they will sound like.


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The ED15



8.5ohm impedance on the ED15? That's pretty low. Hopefully it won't be another ZS5 v1, where people complain that it doesn't sound good (when in reality it's a source impedance matching issue).


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> $6 per roll (different colors available)
> …
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004AF204K/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1522352761&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=velcro+roll&dpPl=1&dpID=51sL7JyN0JL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1


A buck and a half from Gearbest in 5 colors although 1 says out of stock. 

https://www.gearbest.com/cables-connectors/pp_134116.html


----------



## toddy0191

Nikostr8 said:


> Its already in kz official store in aliexpress. Around12-15 euro without/with mic cable.



Damn you head fi!

Ordered them,  the zs10 and the tin audio t2.  

This is going to be a tough year of resistance (or more likely capitulation) with all these new models.


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> I've been waiting for those little puppies to show up. The ZS10 and this ED15 are both on the top of my list. A micro-driver coupled with a BA and semi-open housing? Your boy is stoked!


I saw this and was about to order blind then thought "why so expensive for an ED model?" I looked closer and realized that there's a BA in there in addition to the small DD. So now I'm wondering just what would separate these from the other half dozen 1 BA + 1 DD designs that KZ announced and how many current models make? I actually like the ZSR so I already have a KZ with just that configuration.

So since I know you seem to be a fan of the physically smaller KZ models I'll just wait til you decide to buy.


----------



## bsoplinger

And just for @DocHoliday if you want to buy from Amazon spend $9 for 6 rolls instead of $6 for 1 for the cable tie wrap material

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074P15FWZ


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 30, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> And just for @DocHoliday if you want to buy from Amazon spend $9 for 6 rolls instead of $6 for 1 for the cable tie wrap material
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074P15FWZ



Yeah, I have a penchant for micro-driver IEMs. It started with the Klipsch Image S3 and progressed with the HDS1 and HDS3. Still ticked that I don't have the lackluster HDS2 (shipped to Southern California in stead of Northern California where I live. They are forever lost, but I'm looking forward to taking those new ED15's for a ride.



 

This is a shot in the dark but maybe those ED15 drivers are running in parallel (no crossover) which might be a good thing because there would be no dip or loss of information where the drivers would normally crossover.

Also, the ED15's compact housing could be misleading. The HDS1 had an intimate soundstage and the HDS3 had a near holographic soundstage. Both had tiny housings and triple vents in the rear. 




 

Just a handful of my micro-driver IEMs.


----------



## TLDRonin

Officially joined the ZS10 hype train.


Also got the **** pt15s, MMCX Earbuds that come with a silver cable for 11 bucks


----------



## lordaine

Can anyone please recommend other IEMs just as bright and neutral sounding like ci880 / ZS6 / zs5v1 ? Thanks


----------



## Slater

lordaine said:


> Can anyone please recommend other IEMs just as bright and neutral sounding like ci880 / ZS6 / zs5v1 ? Thanks



I would say:

Seahf AWK-009
ADAX HT06
Ty Hi-Z G3


----------



## HiFiChris

I just saw that the ES3 is reduced by ~33% to just $9.99 with the code "KZES3": https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_709295.html


----------



## wavid

HiFiChris said:


> I just saw that the ES3 is reduced by ~33% to just $9.99 with the code "KZES3": https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_709295.html


The Code you entered has expired.


----------



## Bartig (Mar 30, 2018)

lordaine said:


> Can anyone please recommend other IEMs just as bright and neutral sounding like ci880 / ZS6 / zs5v1 ? Thanks


Try the Yersen FEN2000. You should find them for about 15 euros in the Ali sale now.

By the way: what are your expectations on the newly released KZ ED15?


----------



## vladstef (Mar 30, 2018)

Some people have received ZS10 in China and I've only seen a few but all very positive impressions. It's apparently warm sounding, especially compared to ZS6 (surprise surprise..), wide soundstage... (this part is just early impressions from regular people, wouldn't take is seriously + I used Google Translate).
Here are some first hand photos. They are quite nice looking, also, braided cable confirmed out of the box.


----------



## WildSeven

Very good looking, glad I picked the black one, looks very transparent you can see the inside.
Now it will be a challenge for my patience to wait 4~5 weeks before receiving them.

Does any one know exactly what material used for the housing of the ZS10?


----------



## aspire5550 (Mar 30, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Some people have received ZS10 in China and I've only seen a few but all very positive impressions. It's apparently warm sounding, especially compared to ZS6 (surprise surprise..), wide soundstage... (this part is just early impressions from regular people, wouldn't take is seriously + I used Google Translate).
> Here are some first hand photos. They are quite nice looking, also, braided cable confirmed out of the box.



Yes, as far as i know. This is the starting sale. KZ mentioned that all KZ10 in starting sale will be included with the upgraded copper cable instead of the normal stock cable.

From what I understand, the following are the feedback given:
- Similar packaging style as ZSR.
- No more sibilance like ZS6
- trebles are not one bit piercing?
- bass is better than ZS6
- huge improvement over ZS6
- wide sound stage
- good separation?
- great detail
- most mentioned they will give a second impression after burning in (all the above are before burning in)
- there are a few who mentioned that out of all the kz that they have tried, this is the best one they have so far. 
- there's one customer who mentioned that out of the 10++ KZ earphone that he bought, this is the best in terms of sound and hardware quality.


Sounds promising, excited to see what the folks here thinks about this KZ ZS10


----------



## mattcooperkay (Mar 30, 2018)

Ordered the mic version, that's disappointing... Assuming we will just be getting a standard cable with that version? Or is the upgrade cable shipped in addition to the stock cable?


----------



## ricemanhk

From the pictures on taobao, seems they will have a mic version braided cable (a first!).  I ordered the mic version too, hopefully it's the braided one.

The 8 strand silver upgrade cable looks mighty awesome on the ZS10 too...glad I got it as a bundle with my ZSR.  Hopefully mine arrives by next week before my trip!


----------



## groucho69

All this ED talk makes me uncomfortable.


----------



## HiFiChris

wavid said:


> The Code you entered has expired.



Ah, okay, didn't know that. I was just browsing the GearBest site for new products/arrivals when I noticed a banner in the headphone/earphone category that showed that discount code.


----------



## Holypal

KZ also has new IEM box, made of ABS plastic. Looks much better than the previous one.


----------



## Slater

Holypal said:


> KZ also has new IEM box, made of ABS plastic. Looks much better than the previous one.



Wow, nice looking boxes. KZ has been killing it lately!

My green ZSR & ZS6 would look good in that green box.

I wonder what the dimensions are? And the price?


----------



## cottonbud

Holypal said:


> KZ also has new IEM box, made of ABS plastic. Looks much better than the previous one.


I was looking for something exactly like this, small hard case with good hinges and i had no luck to found one. Week ago ordered couple of soft cases with zipper. F*ck.


----------



## Holypal

Slater said:


> Wow, nice looking boxes. KZ has been killing it lately!
> 
> My green ZSR & ZS6 would look good in that green box.
> 
> I wonder what the dimensions are? And the price?



Prince is 1 to 2 USD.
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=566475388735&_u=u2kpu4lq9606&skuId=3766941231524


----------



## nkramer

Holypal said:


>



their version of a slightly smaller pelican 1010?
great price though!


----------



## daid1

where to buy the KS10 discounted with upgare cable?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 30, 2018)

Holypal said:


> KZ also has new IEM box, made of ABS plastic. Looks much better than the previous one.



I want one in each color!

just found out they add too much shipping cost... more than $2 for each


----------



## Holypal

mbwilson111 said:


> I want one in each color!



Me too. On taobao, it's around $1.3 each. But on aliexpress, it'll probably be $2.5 or more.


----------



## Aevum

You evil ba....

Im so tempted to pick up a KZ ZS10 
https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...1e3ee10&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0

And combine it with this CSR8645 module as my cellphone headphones
https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...1e3ee10&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## Strat Rider (Mar 30, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Hey, where did you get the wide containers from? I only have the square ones.



@Otto Motor  I picked up a dozen of these on AE from the KZ official store about 10 weeks ago for less than $1 US, when they were on sale. 

Excellent deal to watch for.


----------



## Strat Rider (Mar 30, 2018)

Higher opening prices seems to be the typical supply and demand or "early adopter" norm even in KZ land. 

That's the reason I am letting the bandwagon slow down before I throw myself under it


----------



## mbwilson111

Holypal said:


> Me too. On taobao, it's around $1.3 each. But on aliexpress, it'll probably be $2.5 or more.



by the time they add shipping fees it is way more than I want to pay


----------



## Strat Rider

DocHoliday said:


> $4.99
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N4OXWYN/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1522294328&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=3.5mm+extension+cable&dpPl=1&dpID=41hnCaHCX5L&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1


+1 That's what I use on my motorcycle for extension. 

if/when it gets weathered , cheap enough to have extras. Quality is good imho.


----------



## manukmanohar

Aevum said:


> You evil ba....
> 
> Im so tempted to pick up a KZ ZS10
> https://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZS10-4BA-1-h-brido-din-mico-en-la-oreja-los-auriculares-HiFi-DJ-monito/2661118_32859401128.html?s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10547_10342_10343_10340_10548_10341_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_10301_10303_5711220_10313_10059_10184_10534_100031_10103_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_50,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=45b5e561-b67a-4d17-bebe-8966e1e3ee10-4&algo_pvid=45b5e561-b67a-4d17-bebe-8966e1e3ee10&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0
> ...


that's exactly what i did!


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I want one in each color!
> 
> just found out they add too much shipping cost... more than $2 for each



I’m sure they’ll be on Aliexpress and gearbest soon.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I’m sure they’ll be on Aliexpress and gearbest soon.



I was on Ali... under $2 each for the box but more than $2 added to each for shipping...

I don't need them that badly!  cheaper options...like the zippered cases.


----------



## Nikostr8

In my opinion the old cases looks better.

gotta buy some cases for my new purchases.


----------



## Holypal

Nikostr8 said:


> In my opinion the old cases looks better.
> 
> gotta buy some cases for my new purchases.



The old case is not hard case.


----------



## Wiljen (Mar 30, 2018)

Holypal said:


> KZ also has new IEM box, made of ABS plastic. Looks much better than the previous one.



Couldn't hardly miss as the last one (hard case, not the soft zipper case - the black plastic one) was made out of recycled grocery bags with all the tensile strength of a wet noodle.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I was on Ali... under $2 each for the box but more than $2 added to each for shipping...
> 
> I don't need them that badly!  cheaper options...like the zippered cases.



I’m sure they’ll come down in price as more sellers carry them. It’s just too new right now.

I guarantee the Aliexpress sellers currently charging shipping are just doing proxy selling. You order from them for $2 + $2 shipping. Then they turn around and order it from Taobao for $1.30 + $2 shipping, and have it shipped directly to you. They make $0.70 without having to handle any inventory.

But if you wait a bit until Aliexpress sellers actually get physical inventory in stock, then you’ll start seeing all of the Aliexpress sellers with free shipping. And once that happens, competition will kick in and the prices will start dropping like a rock.


----------



## oyobass

Wiljen said:


> Couldn't hardly miss as the last one (hard case, not the soft zipper case - the black plastic one) was made out of recycled grocery bags with all the tensile strength of a wet noodle.


I must have got a different run of the black hard case then. Mine seems much sturdier. 

As a matter of fact, out of curiosity I just threw it on the floor and stood on it, (after removing my green ZS6, just in case). It survived 190 pounds of me shifting my weight around on it just fine. It probably wouldn't survive me driving the old station wagon  over it or a direct bomb  blast, but it is more than adequate to keep earphones in for less than two bucks...


----------



## Wiljen

oyobass said:


> I must have got a different run of the black hard case then. Mine seems much sturdier.
> 
> As a matter of fact, out of curiosity I just threw it on the floor and stood on it, (after removing my green ZS6, just in case). It survived 190 pounds of me shifting my weight around on it just fine. It probably wouldn't survive me driving the old station wagon  over it or a direct bomb  blast, but it is more than adequate to keep earphones in for less than two bucks...



Maybe I just got the worst of the lot as mine was skewed out of the box and didnt ever seal and the hinge broke within a month of getting it.     I can't imagine that we got things that different out of KZ, I mean after all their QC is world famous.


----------



## HiFiChris (Mar 30, 2018)

Holypal said:


> KZ also has new IEM box, made of ABS plastic. Looks much better than the previous one.



Looks a lot like the "Mini Monitor Vault" cases by Westone that were, if I'm not horribly wrong, produced by OtterBox. Great little cases and very sturdy. The only disadvantage was that the area around the clasp locks eventually started to form cracks due to the rubber gaskets wielding too much force on the clasp.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 30, 2018)

I just went ahead and ordered a dozen square and round zippered soft cases in various colors for £1 each on Amazon UK but they are shipping from China.  I will share a few with my husband IF he needs any.  LOL

I do have a few iems and buds that like the rectangular cases better but I can switch some things around.

edited to add:
Actually the shipping was £1 each.  The cases were £0.01 for the square ones and £0.10 for the round for a total of  £0.30!  So grand total £12.30 for 10 square and two round.


----------



## Saoshyant (Mar 30, 2018)

Should be roughly if not exactly this size.

Rose Tech uses the Westone style cases on a few of their IEM/earbuds.


----------



## rayliam80

I went ahead and jumped on the ZS10 bandwagon. I also got another set of ZS6's in green and a few TRN cables (for my ZS3 which I'm growing to love) from NiceHCK. I just can't resist the green color. Not sure if it will be wise to mix/match the green and black ZS6 shells but I might just play with it to see how it all sounds.


----------



## oyobass

Wiljen said:


> Maybe I just got the worst of the lot as mine was skewed out of the box and didnt ever seal and the hinge broke within a month of getting it.     I can't imagine that we got things that different out of KZ, I mean after all their QC is world famous.


----------



## oyobass

rayliam80 said:


> I went ahead and jumped on the ZS10 bandwagon. I also got another set of ZS6's in green and a few TRN cables (for my ZS3 which I'm growing to love) from NiceHCK. I just can't resist the green color. Not sure if it will be wise to mix/match the green and black ZS6 shells but I might just play with it to see how it all sounds.


Where did you find the green ZS6? Rare as hen's teeth these days...


----------



## Saoshyant




----------



## rayliam80

oyobass said:


> Where did you find the green ZS6? Rare as hen's teeth these days...



NiceHCK. $33.38 USD for the sale.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 30, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> Should be roughly if not exactly this size.
> 
> Rose Tech uses the Westone style cases on a few of their IEM/earbuds.



Does the ZSR fit in the case comfortably or is it a bit cramped? Looks like it might not be a good idea to store the IEMs with the cable attached. 

I usually like a little more elbow-room.


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> Does the ZSR fit in the case comfortably or is it a bit cramped. Looks like it might not be a good idea to store the IEMs with the cable attached.
> 
> I usually like a little more elbow room.



That is the sort of case I have my ZS6 and ZSR in.  I need to store them with the cable attached because I don't want to wear out the little pins plus it is so fiddly to attach the cables.


----------



## Saoshyant

@DocHoliday Quite snug, but certainly doable.  Honestly, I think my Rose Pudding has a bit worse time trying to properly fit in there.  Rose Mojito has a bit of a squeeze too.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 30, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> @DocHoliday Quite snug, but certainly doable.  Honestly, I think my Rose Pudding has a bit worse time trying to properly fit in there.  Rose Mojito has a bit of a squeeze too.


Something seems quite odd. If GearBest hasn't offered the ZS10 yet, then my thinking is that everyone else that is taking orders for them (except the Official KZ Store) is probably not in possession of the ZS10 and said sellers are just capturing early orders. I bet GearBest will have the best prices. They always do.

Anyone know if GearBest has an equivalent to this $6.99 2-case pack that are on Amazon?


----------



## Nikostr8 (Mar 30, 2018)

Which case is that one with your zst's?? Looks really nice. @DocHoliday


----------



## jeromeaparis (Mar 30, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Anyone know if GearBest has an equivalent to this $6.99 2-case pack that are on Amazon?


I got these boxes, from GB (11x6.5x3.5cm, 4 colors, 2.46$ each) for my ZS6 & ZSR

https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_636854.html


----------



## oyobass

DocHoliday said:


> Something seems quite odd. If GearBest hasn't offered the ZS10 yet, then my thinking is that everyone else that is taking orders for them (except the Official KZ Store) is probably not in possession of the ZS10 and said sellers are just capturing early orders. I bet GearBest will have the best prices. They always do.


Sellers on Amazon are saying the ZS10 will be released April 6.

"This item will be released on April 6, 2018. Pre-order now"


----------



## bsoplinger

mbwilson111 said:


> I want one in each color!
> 
> just found out they add too much shipping cost... more than $2 for each


You can get them from NiceHCK with free shipping. Of course they're asking $9.99 each. But its free shipping. And they have all the colors. I only saw black and blue as available from the KZ store.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 30, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> Which case is that one with your zst's?? Looks really nice. @DocHoliday



They're sold out but...

post#29766 references another case on GearBest for $2.50 a piece. 


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01G8LUY5A/ref=cm_cr_othr_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01E4TS360/ref=cm_cr_othr_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8


----------



## mbwilson111

bsoplinger said:


> You can get them from NiceHCK with free shipping. Of course they're asking $9.99 each. But its free shipping. And they have all the colors. I only saw black and blue as available from the KZ store.



Too expensive!  I will not be needing them now that I have ordered others.  Besides the smaller square and round zippered cases that I ordered tonight I also just ordered these which will actually arrive Sunday.  Amazon Prime.  You can also get them both as black or a black and blue.   £5.99 for the pair.  The smaller ones are coming from China. Those will probably take a month.


----------



## DocHoliday

mbwilson111 said:


> Too expensive!  I will not be needing them now that I have ordered others.  Besides the smaller square and round zippered cases that I ordered tonight I also just ordered these which will actually arrive Sunday.  Amazon Prime.  You can also get them both as black or a black and blue.   £5.99 for the pair.  The smaller ones are coming from China. Those will probably take a month.


Link?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 30, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Link?



https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N68AO3O/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2W9JVEMMG88KL&psc=1

I think they might be on amazon.com as well

only in the black and blue

https://www.amazon.com/MoKo-Earphone-Portable-Carrying-Headphone/dp/B01N2LCAX5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522446436&sr=8-1&keywords=MoKo+Earphone+Case,+[2+Pack]+Portable+Storage+Bag+Zipper+Closure+Carrying+Cover

not as cheap as some ali things but they look nice


----------



## Adide

This is funny. 
Many pages of casserole-ing.
You guys almost forgot to board the zs10 hype train and speculate about it into oblivion.

Ok I'll do it:
ALL ABOARD!

I love KZ thread and its denizens. I keep returning after almost a year now.
I realise I'm a bit tipsy and melancholic after so many Bengal Lancers but hey! It's Friday and chi-fi is great.
Love you guys.

Boy I'm gonna regret this post tomorrow.


----------



## groucho69

Adide said:


> This is funny.
> Many pages of casserole-ing.
> You guys almost forgot to board the zs10 hype train and speculate about it into oblivion.
> 
> ...



Just wait until someone actually has one.


----------



## Adide (Mar 30, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Just wait until someone actually has one



I was expecting people exulting over the innitial impressions from China a few pages back.

If this is of any indication early impressions of ZS6 era have been pretty spot on, including the over energetic treble and on the other side the rest of its strengths.

Fwiw I ordered the ZS10 as on paper looks like being the most techical KZ of the year, but I'm not over anticipating.
Anyway, for €26 it's not a big deal if it's a flop and I doubt it will be much more cheaper on gb deals soon.

I've started this journey with KZ and I keep on going along, although I'm a bit sad that they don't wish to grow as a company and still keeping it underground.
Maybe that's better in a way, where else would you be getting a 4BA+ iem for $30?

ZS5 hype train was a nice righteous ride a year ago, not mached recently. I hope ZS10 will live its expectations.


----------



## Slater

HiFiChris said:


> Looks a lot like the "Mini Monitor Vault" cases by Westone that were, if I'm not horribly wrong, produced by OtterBox. Great little cases and very sturdy. The only disadvantage was that the area around the clasp locks eventually started to form cracks due to the rubber gaskets wielding too much force on the clasp.



If you don't need the cases to be waterproof (who does?), then you could just remove the gasket. No gasket = no cracking = problem solved.


----------



## Adide

This has been posted already and might have gone a bit unnoticed but as @Slater mentioned it might interrest collectors very much.

KZ ZS6 green at a great price here, might as well be the last train:
New KZ ZS6 2DD 2BA Hybrid In Ear Earphone HIFI DJ Monito Running Sport Earphone Earplug Headset Earbud KZ ZS5 Pro Metal Earphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/Zr2MvMjU?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


----------



## mbwilson111

I am interested in the kz yz40 because it is the purple color that I said a long time ago that I would like them to make

I don't think it is available yet.


----------



## Slater

I know everyone is on the ZS10 hype train, but I wanted to let you ZS5 and ZS6 owners know an easy way to maximize the bass.

Just cover the vent hole with a very small strip of micropore or transpore tape.

Or, if you don't have any of that, just use regular tape and poke a tiny hole in the tape using the tip of a sewing needle, push pin, hat pin, or thumb tack. Be sure not to poke too deep - only poke deep enough to just pierce through the tape.


----------



## Adide (Mar 30, 2018)

Slater said:


> I know everyone is on the ZS10 hype train, but I wanted to let you ZS5 and ZS6 owners know an easy way to maximize the bass.
> 
> Just cover the vent hole with a very small strip of micropore or transpore tape.
> 
> Or, if you don't have any of that, just use regular tape and poke a tiny hole in the tape using the tip of a sewing needle, push pin, hat pin, or thumb tack. Be sure not to poke too deep - only poke deep enough to just pierce through the tape.



I've done that (and many of your mods ofc) and my experience was muddier bass (casual listening not critical).

If I recall correctly from @vector84  (where you at dude?) this (otherwise good) mod has different impact on people due to annatomical structure - being an inner side vent it might already be  partially obstructed by ear layout. I think @HiFiChris spotted this first.
I might be wrong, sorry if I misquoted ppl.


----------



## Slater (Mar 30, 2018)

Adide said:


> I've done that (and many of your mods ofc) and my experience was muddier bass (casual listening not critical).
> 
> If I recall correctly from @vector84  (where you at dude?) this (otherwise good) mod has different impact on people due to annatomical structure - being an inner vent it might be already partially obstructed by ear layout. I think @HiFiChris spotted this first.
> I might be wrong, sorry if I misquoted ppl.



If the hole you poke is too small it can be a bit muddy. But all you have to do is poke the hole slightly larger until it sounds the way you want (ie no muddiness, but >bass than stock).

About 50% the size of the stock ZS6 hole is the perfect sweet spot for me.

I did tinker with a few mods to the 10mm driver (mods inside the shell), but didn't manage to get the improvements I was looking for just yet. I'm still working on a few more ideas though.

But yes, you're right that depending on your individual ear it may already be blocked to begin with. It's not with my ears though; hence the tape mod.


----------



## Adide (Mar 30, 2018)

@Slater About to go to sleep but now that I'm feeling chatty due to many ipas how's your medical ear piercing treating you? I hope you are better. Stay well.

Edit: now that struck me as an over personal question but you are a notorious (well appreciated) poster here for whom we are rooting and you've publicly posted your condition before. Feel free to ignore me.


----------



## Slater

Adide said:


> @Slater About to go to sleep but now that I'm feeling chatty due to many ipas how's your medical ear piercing treating you? I hope you are better. Stay well.
> 
> Edit: now that struck me as an over personal question but you are a notorious (well appreciated) poster here for whom we are rooting and you've publicly posted your condition before. Feel free to ignore me.



All healed up! Cut my migraines by probably 85% Thanks for asking 

And so this stays on topic, I wonder when the ZS4 (ZS3 hybrid) is going to be released? I've been waiting for that one.






What's odd is that it didn't appear on the 2018 earphone lineup material that KZ posted. I hope that doesn't mean we have to wait until 2019!


----------



## Superluc

Maybe KZ just choose to let us see the lineup of new designs. The ZS4 was anticipated to look like the ZS3, even if someone didn't have trusted those rumors because of that cursed 4  (  )


----------



## Makahl

I hope they bring back the matte black option for the ZS4. I had a pair of a matte ZS3 and now I can't find this option anymore.


----------



## ricemanhk (Mar 30, 2018)

Aevum said:


> You evil ba....
> 
> Im so tempted to pick up a KZ ZS10
> https://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-ZS10-4BA-1-h-brido-din-mico-en-la-oreja-los-auriculares-HiFi-DJ-monito/2661118_32859401128.html?s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10547_10342_10343_10340_10548_10341_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_10301_10303_5711220_10313_10059_10184_10534_100031_10103_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_50,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=45b5e561-b67a-4d17-bebe-8966e1e3ee10-4&algo_pvid=45b5e561-b67a-4d17-bebe-8966e1e3ee10&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0
> ...



bahahahah this is exactly my order

and after updating my xiaomi mix 2 phone, now it supports aptx.  win!


----------



## ricemanhk

found a more detailed review from taobao for ZS10
"using fiio x5 as source, immediate impression is wide sound stage, then accurate positioning and imaging, lots of detail. overall very fine and detailed treble, vocal distance is spot on, lots of mids, bass and sub-bass is just right. super value for money"

I still can't find anyone who received the mic version and posted pictures yet, so can't confirm the cable. but for non mic version everyone has the braided copper upgrade cable.


----------



## Strat Rider

CoiL said:


> Well, my EDR2 was also kind of neutral sided with good mids but they sounded "intimate & foward" and somewhat warm. I bought my EDR2 long back, shortly after release.
> I don`t know about current release though.
> About ATE - current 5th gen ATE sounds same to current latest ATR (which has red-shelled ATE 5th gen driver inside).



I have had about 40 hours with the EDR2, newly shipped from GB. To my ears, it sounds on the neutral side. 

It is the first non "custom" style KZ I have, and I really like it  so far.


----------



## TLDRonin

ricemanhk said:


> found a more detailed review from taobao for ZS10
> "using fiio x5 as source, immediate impression is wide sound stage, then accurate positioning and imaging, lots of detail. overall very fine and detailed treble, vocal distance is spot on, lots of mids, bass and sub-bass is just right. super value for money"
> 
> I still can't find anyone who received the mic version and posted pictures yet, so can't confirm the cable. but for non mic version everyone has the braided copper upgrade cable.


 Are you implying that if you ordered a mic version you won't get a braided copper cable? I was worried about that so I ordered the non-mic

Nothing but praise for the ZS10 so far.... I can't wait until a fellow head-fi member gets theirs so we can confirm the hype.


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 31, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> I have had about 40 hours with the EDR2, newly shipped from GB. To my ears, it sounds on the neutral side.
> 
> It is the first non "custom" style KZ I have, and I really like it  so far.


Too much neutral in this discussion group that is not neutral. The EDR2 are not even remotely neutral, they have a highly elevated bass which contributes to a v-shape. The ZS5 are also not neutral. Neutrally tuned budget earphones are as rare as British dentists. The textbook example of a cheap, neutral earphone are the Fostex TE-02. Most members here would throw them in the garbage bin claiming they don't have bass - that's neutral...realistic sounding.

HifiChris writes on head-fi: "_The TE-02 is very neutral sounding and might be too sterile and boring for many – however, if you want to try a fairly neutral IEM for little money, this one could be for you."_

The classic premium neutral earphones are the Etymotic ER•4S and ER4 SR.

Audiophiles are looking for frequency response curves close to the Fostex TE-02 one.


----------



## Strat Rider

The picture from @Slater just reminded me I forgot to share my non intrusive ZS6 BA plug result. 

I used poster putty to block off one BA. I didn't think to ask Slater if the goal was merely to block sound, or freeze the BA.

I am happy to say I like the effect.  The treble volume has been tamed but the character of the iem is still unaffected. 

It is reversible, but I will leave it blocked off. 

So when the new models are released and the prices drop for the ZS6 during the ZS10 land rush, this helps to tame the biggest negatives, and if you don't like the results, putty is easily removed. 

I always have room for 1more ZS6.


----------



## Strat Rider (Mar 31, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Too much neutral in this discussion group that is not neutral. The EDR2 are not even remotely neutral, they have a highly elevated bass which contributes to a v-shape. The ZS5 are also not neutral. Neutrally tuned earphones below $100 are rare. The textbook example of a cheap, neutral earphone are the Fostex TE-02. Most members here would throw them in the garbage bin claiming they don't have bass - that's neutral...realistic sounding. The classic premium neutral earphones are the Etymotic ER•4S and ER4 SR.



I stand corrected! Let me rephrase, to my ears with smaller tips, EDR2 has pretty even levels of highs, mids, and bass. Definitely not neutral.


----------



## ricemanhk (Mar 31, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Are you implying that if you ordered a mic version you won't get a braided copper cable? I was worried about that so I ordered the non-mic
> 
> Nothing but praise for the ZS10 so far.... I can't wait until a fellow head-fi member gets theirs so we can confirm the hype.



From the pictures it seemed to imply the mic version is also a braided cable, but nobody has received them yet (my taobao seller says non-mic is available on day 1, mic version need 3 more days to ship out) so we can't confirm yet.  Other sites seem to imply the braided copper cable is a special freebie with the first batches of ZS10, though I suspect (and hope) it's going to be the new stock cable for ZS10 and other new launches from now, coz the old sticky rubber stock cable has earned nothing but complaints.

I'll get mine hopefully next week, if not then I'll be traveling for a week so it'll have to be the week after next.  Fingers crossed!

Update: my seller confirms the mic version stock cable is also a braided cable!


----------



## Qualcheduno

Otto Motor said:


> Too much neutral in this discussion group that is not neutral. The EDR2 are not even remotely neutral, they have a highly elevated bass which contributes to a v-shape. The ZS5 are also not neutral. Neutrally tuned budget earphones are as rare as British dentists. The textbook example of a cheap, neutral earphone are the Fostex TE-02. Most members here would throw them in the garbage bin claiming they don't have bass - that's neutral...realistic sounding.
> 
> HifiChris writes on head-fi: "_The TE-02 is very neutral sounding and might be too sterile and boring for many – however, if you want to try a fairly neutral IEM for little money, this one could be for you."_
> 
> ...


Maybe the edr2 are not neutral, but balanced: while their FR is not flat, none of their frequencies is so elevated to overshadow the others (or so recessed to be overshadowed by the others).


----------



## TLDRonin

If anyone finds any Japanese reviews for the ZS10 hit me up. I can translate it into understandable English 


I noticed some people posted Japanese reviews for the ZSR a while back from twitter, but I don't use Twitter


----------



## smsmasters

Is this the braided KZ ZS10 cable everyone is referring to?


----------



## ricemanhk

smsmasters said:


> Is this the braided KZ ZS10 cable everyone is referring to?



Yep, that's the one with mic.  If they start selling these standalone I'm gonna replace the stock ones on my ZST and ZSR with it...haha


----------



## paulindss

The price of the non Mic version was higher than the Mic. Wich made me think that the non mic was braided and the mic was the usual cable.


----------



## smsmasters

I saw this on the official kz store on AE:


----------



## Otto Motor (Mar 31, 2018)

Qualcheduno said:


> Maybe the edr2 are not neutral, but balanced: while their FR is not flat, none of their frequencies is so elevated to overshadow the others (or so recessed to be overshadowed by the others).


Possibly, but apples are apples and oranges are oranges.


----------



## rayliam80

smsmasters said:


> I saw this on the official kz store on AE:



I have no idea if I'll get the cable since I didn't order from the official store. I went ahead and ordered a non-KZ 2 pin upgrade cable to go along with the ZS10. If I get the upgrade cable, great. If not, no worries.


----------



## AsheshM

smsmasters said:


> I saw this on the official kz store on AE:



Could you please share the link for  the above?


----------



## rayliam80

AsheshM said:


> Could you please share the link for  the above?



KZ ZS10 Listing on AE KZ Official Store.


----------



## smsmasters

AsheshM said:


> Could you please share the link for  the above?



Short link http://bit.ly/2GLoScs


----------



## toddy0191

ricemanhk said:


> Yep, that's the one with mic.  If they start selling these standalone I'm gonna replace the stock ones on my ZST and ZSR with it...haha



Just checked the ED15 and their cable seems to be the same but non removable.


----------



## bsoplinger

This isn't the right thread to ask but I can't find a Chi-Fi amplifier thread. And there seems to be a few knowledgeable folks here so…

Does anyone know where I can buy additional amplifier rubber bands? I mean those heavier than office ones for securing your amp to your phone or DAP? I tried a search within category on AliExpress for rubber band in the portable electronics category but it always puts me into general results where it shows nothing but office type ones. I have a few sizes of these things because I've bought a few amps but its a case of I want more this size but the amp came with that size. Figured they couldn't be too expensive to purchase on their own but I can't find the requisite magical phrase to find any. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Mar 31, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> This isn't the right thread to ask but I can't find a Chi-Fi amplifier thread. And there seems to be a few knowledgeable folks here so…
> 
> Does anyone know where I can buy additional amplifier rubber bands? I mean those heavier than office ones for securing your amp to your phone or DAP? I tried a search within category on AliExpress for rubber band in the portable electronics category but it always puts me into general results where it shows nothing but office type ones. I have a few sizes of these things because I've bought a few amps but its a case of I want more this size but the amp came with that size. Figured they couldn't be too expensive to purchase on their own but I can't find the requisite magical phrase to find any. Any help would be appreciated.



found one example... maybe to use as a starting point to find search words... I would include silcone (which is not the same as silicon... I see that confusion quite a bit)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silicone-i...9&sr=8-1&keywords=silicone+bands+portable+amp

there are wristbands too... if the size is right...these glow in the dark!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Blu...-wristband/32794493011.html?priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## oyobass

Some of the sound engineers I know of have discovered the ZST:

http://www.behindthemixer.com/kz-zs5-earphone-review/

I "discovered" Chi-Fi through another sound man. The sound guy for one of my bands had bought a ZST that the singer was using. The singer liked them better than the Shure set he was using before. I came back to Head-Fi to do some research and have been here ever since.


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> Some of the sound engineers I know of have discovered the ZST:
> 
> http://www.behindthemixer.com/kz-zs5-earphone-review/
> 
> I "discovered" Chi-Fi through another sound man. The sound guy for one of my bands had bought a ZST that the singer was using. The singer liked them better than the Shure set he was using before. I came back to Head-Fi to do some research and have been here ever since.



Wow, he likely tried the ZS5 v2. I wonder what his impression would have been had he tried some of the better KZ options - ZSR, ZS6 (for the impressive build quality), and even the upcoming ZS10?


----------



## Limjialok

Hi, my new kz es3 arrived and I have a few questions. my kz es3 sounds more sharper than my zsr, is it because of the extra BA in the zsr? Es3 sounds hurts my ears after a while. 
Or is es3 a bright iem while zsr is a warm iem?


----------



## jeromeaparis

Limjialok said:


> Hi, my new kz es3 arrived and I have a few questions. my kz es3 sounds more sharper than my zsr, is it because of the extra BA in the zsr? Es3 sounds hurts my ears after a while.
> Or is es3 a bright iem while zsr is a warm iem?


From my experience:
ES3, (after 80hrs pink noise burnin) has very good bass, voices sounding artificial, trebles detailed but sybillant all the time. You could try burnin with white noise for 100hrs
ZSR (after 40hrs pink noise burnin) Excellent bass, Voices sounding natural (slightly recessed vs ZS6) very good detailed trebles rarely sybillant, yes, rather a bit warm.
two BAs well tuned in the ZSR vs one agressive in ES3


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, i just found out that KZ iem's sell on ebay, why not get them from there?


----------



## vladstef

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i just found out that KZ iem's sell on ebay, why not get them from there?



Often much more expensive and there are constantly deals on Aliexpress and Gearbest + it is equally reliable to order them from China directly. Essentially, you'd only want them from e-bay if you need them faster and you know that they will reach you faster from e-bay (which isn't always the case).


----------



## DSebastiao

vladstef said:


> Often much more expensive and there are constantly deals on Aliexpress and Gearbest + it is equally reliable to order them from China directly. Essentially, you'd only want them from e-bay if you need them faster and you know that they will reach you faster from e-bay (which isn't always the case).



But isn't ebay's warranty better? Also Paypal.


----------



## oyobass

DSebastiao said:


> But isn't ebay's warranty better? Also Paypal.


GearBest also accepts PayPal. That is why they're my Chinese vendor of choice.


----------



## DSebastiao

oyobass said:


> GearBest also accepts PayPal. That is why they're my Chinese vendor of choice.


It was mine also, until i saw the feedback online on them.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I've been ordering from GearBest for over two years with no issue.  I've also talked to their support regarding KZ IEMs not arriving and they've been stellar as well.

If you treat their support with respect, that's what you'll get in return.


----------



## oyobass (Apr 1, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> It was mine also, until i saw the feedback online on them.


I saw the feedback too, before I ordered anything. I went in knowing it might be a crapshoot. On the whole, I have been more than happy. I have ordered hats, headphones, earphones and a cellphone. So far only a $6 smartwatch came DOA, and a $3 Bluetooth cable got lost in customs. I will continue to order from them because of the extreme value they offer.


----------



## Tweeters

If you do order from Gearbest, I'd pay the couple dollars extra for tracked shipping. Actually not so long ago I ordered a ZS6 from them during a $19.99 sale and went with the free shipping. Almost two months later they hadn't arrived so I opened a dispute with PayPal, got a refund from the seller the next day, and then a couple days after that they showed up in the mail! Not fun waiting that long but hey, free earphones


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i just found out that KZ iem's sell on ebay, why not get them from there?



I've bought numerous from ebay.

Also have gotten them from Gearbest, Amazon, Wish, Banggood, DealExtreme, DHgate, FastTech, and a few other minor Chinese sites.

It pays to shop around


----------



## bhazard

Gearbest also are sponsors for Head-Fi. They advertise the right way here, so I absolutely support them.


----------



## Aevum

Actually. 

Ive had issues with gearbest, but mostly them not being so honest about shipping dates and stock. 

Expect 4-6 weeks for deliveries (at least in europe)


----------



## jeromeaparis (Apr 2, 2018)

Aevum said:


> Actually.
> 
> Ive had issues with gearbest, but mostly them not being so honest about shipping dates and stock.
> 
> Expect 4-6 weeks for deliveries (at least in europe)



Sorry, I dont agree with you, (I only buy items in stock) I 've been ordering a lot of things from GB.
Like said before, I take a register shipment option (2€), pay with paypal everytime and it arrives in two or three weeks here in Europe.
In case of rarely any problem could occur, GB never lets you down !
They are more professional and safe than Ali
Fastech is specialy good for e-cigarettes


----------



## ricemanhk (Apr 2, 2018)

Alrighty finally found a picture of the new braided cable with mic!  It's the brown one in the picture, so seems to be exactly the same as the copper upgrade cable.  The black one seems to be a TRN upgrade cable.







In other news, my pair has cleared customs and should be delivered tomorrow!


----------



## TLDRonin

ricemanhk said:


> Alrighty finally found a picture of the new braided cable with mic!  It's the brown one in the picture, so seems to be exactly the same as the copper upgrade cable.  The black one seems to be a TRN upgrade cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your ZS10s were already shipped?


----------



## ricemanhk (Apr 2, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Your ZS10s were already shipped?



I'm in Hong Kong and bought them on taobao, hence the speed haha.  Alot of customers getting them, general feedback is SQ beats ZS6, but ZS6 craftsmanship still better.  Some say the usual large seams, scratches etc. on the plastic ZS10 shell...sigh the wonderful KZ QC process...

Another point though, with so many drivers many have said they need more power to get the most out of the ZS10.  I'll report back tomorrow once I get mine...

Some nice unboxing pictures here from others in HK
http://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2433345&extra=page=1&page=1


----------



## maxxevv

A guy on Taobao reported a 5.3 Ohm impedance/ resistance measurement. 
Probably explains things somewhat...??


----------



## Pruikki

Hello all, im back.

KZ *ZSR GOT DEFECTIVE after 3 months* of using it few times a week, using for aprox 0.5 - 1 hours.

Not cool. The left side seems off, as it audio balance is more on the right, as if left channel got 50% less sound in it?
why is that 1/3 of my KZ purchases are defective, The ZS3 was bad 2 times  (3rd one was fine,the new with thicker cable)

What can i do? Gearbest Refund me 15€? or send me replacement? or partial refund or Nothing?
*any thoughts? what to do?*


----------



## Pruikki

What? a ZS10 already released? wow i was away for a long time seems xD

any good? pricing?


----------



## CoiL

ricemanhk said:


> Another point though, with so many drivers *many have said they need more power to get the most out of the ZS10*.


Hmmm... sounds little like some drivers are just in parallel and not all are under crossover scheme. ZS5v1 dejavu? Though, sound could be really great when amped properly.
Anyway, seems like a nice material for custom shelling and custom crossover.


----------



## ricemanhk

CoiL said:


> Hmmm... sounds little like some drivers are just in parallel and not all are under crossover scheme. ZS5v1 dejavu? Though, sound could be really great when amped properly.
> Anyway, seems like a nice material for custom shelling and custom crossover.



I think the crossover is just between the DD, the pair of mid BA and the pair of tweeter BA.  Whether there's additional crossover within each pair I'm not sure...how does crossover vs parallel affect power requirements though?


----------



## Bartig

ricemanhk said:


> Another point though, with so many drivers many have said they need more power to get the most out of the ZS10.  I'll report back tomorrow once I get mine...
> 
> Some nice unboxing pictures here from others in HK
> http://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2433345&extra=page=1&page=1


Darn, I hope I can still drive them great with my iPhone and I don't need the DragonFly all the time. :-/





Uh-oh... the housings seem huge!


----------



## zozito

My zs10 are already supposed to be shipped.


----------



## ricemanhk

Bartig said:


> Darn, I hope I can still drive them great with my iPhone and I don't need the DragonFly all the time. :-/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL that's also a perspective issue...
I think people said the housing IS big but it's mostly outside, so it's still fine...


----------



## Lifted Andreas

jeromeaparis said:


> Sorry, I dont agree with you, (I only buy items in stock) I 've been ordering a lot of things from GB.
> Like said before, I take a register shipment option (2€), pay with paypal everytime and it arrives in two or three weeks here in Europe.
> In case of rarely any problem could occur, GB never lets you down !
> They are more professional and safe than Ali
> Fastech is specialy good for e-cigarettes



The concensus that I've seen is that Gearbest stuff takes foooreeever to arrive. At least 1 week longer than Ali, if not more.


----------



## groucho69

Lifted Andreas said:


> The concensus that I've seen is that Gearbest stuff takes foooreeever to arrive. At least 1 week longer than Ali, if not more.



I have had the exact opposite experience. GB can be 10-50% faster than AE for me. And I don't think I am an outlier.


----------



## phower

maxxevv said:


> A guy on Taobao reported a 5.3 Ohm impedance/ resistance measurement.
> Probably explains things somewhat...??


In that case, it requires an amp with output impedance of < 1 ohm in order to minimize headphone resonance. Most smartphones have a output impedance of 2-10 ohms.


----------



## maxxevv

phower said:


> In that case, it requires an amp with output impedance of < 1 ohm in order to minimize headphone resonance. Most smartphones have a output impedance of 2-10 ohms.



Here's the original truncated quote: 

"大家最期待的聽感:
1.高音刺耳不再, zs6那刺到不要不要的齒音不見了 
2.細節還原度跟zs6分別不大, 還是一貫zs6監聽風格 
3.低音下潛好像少了, 可能圈沒煲開, 遲點補 
4.這價位這音質絕對超值. 5.32歐姆抗阻手機推有點吃力, 建議換夠推力的播放器 其他追評再補"

Translated :  
"What everybody has eagerly anticipated in impressions: 
1. Ear piercing treble is no longer there, ZS6's screeching until unbearable sibilance is no longer there.
2. Rendering and realism of details is comparable to the ZS6, it has a similar listening profile/style to the ZS6. 
3. Low end bass seems to have been reduced, but its possible that there's not enough burn-in in the dynamic driver, shall update again. 
4. At this price point, is definitely great value. 5.32 Ohm impedance/resistance makes pushing it a little tough. Shall need to use a more  
   powerful amp to further feedback on the overall results later. "

Its the best I can translate, which I think paints a clearer picture, from the comments of someone who seems to know at least his/her basic stuff.


----------



## vladstef

maxxevv said:


> A guy on Taobao reported a 5.3 Ohm impedance/ resistance measurement.
> Probably explains things somewhat...??





maxxevv said:


> Here's the original truncated quote:
> 
> "大家最期待的聽感:
> 1.高音刺耳不再, zs6那刺到不要不要的齒音不見了
> ...



It's not 5.3 Ohms, it's fifth point - 32 Ohm impedance.
They aren't doing the ZS5v1 thing again.


----------



## maxxevv

Oopss....


----------



## TLDRonin

Oh thank god it isnt 5.32 lmao


----------



## WildSeven

Well, early feedback looks promising, mine hasn't shipped out yet.
Guess they are fulfilling order in Mainland first we will be left behind, at least by the time it gets here we will know more.


----------



## djmakemynight

maxxevv said:


> Here's the original truncated quote:
> 
> "大家最期待的聽感:
> 1.高音刺耳不再, zs6那刺到不要不要的齒音不見了
> ...



Pretty spot on translation. Kinda raw but clear enough. Good job.


----------



## djmakemynight

vladstef said:


> It's not 5.3 Ohms, it's fifth point - 32 Ohm impedance.
> They aren't doing the ZS5v1 thing again.



Great job on spotting the 5th point. 32 Ohms sounds great. However, KZ cheap out on the ZS10 packaging this time round. Unlike the ZS5 and ZS6 where the domestic packages came in flip boxes.


----------



## rayliam80

Has anyone not on the Chinese mainland received a shipment notification from AE? At least I got a shipment notification for my green KZ ZS6 from NiceHCK. I was starting to get worried as another order from NiceHCK was dispatched within a day and this one was taking a bit longer.


----------



## WildSeven

rayliam80 said:


> Has anyone not on the Chinese mainland received a shipment notification from AE? At least I got a shipment notification for my green KZ ZS6 from NiceHCK. I was starting to get worried as another order from NiceHCK was dispatched within a day and this one was taking a bit longer.


If you purchased the ZS10 you will have to wait 1~2 weeks before they are dispatched as this is a pre-sale.


----------



## rayliam80

WildSeven said:


> If you purchased the ZS10 you will have to wait 1~2 weeks before they are dispatched as this is a pre-sale.



You never know. They could go out earlier than expected.


----------



## zozito

rayliam80 said:


> Has anyone not on the Chinese mainland received a shipment notification from AE? At least I got a shipment notification for my green KZ ZS6 from NiceHCK. I was starting to get worried as another order from NiceHCK was dispatched within a day and this one was taking a bit longer.


Just me, as I said before. One coming for Spain.


----------



## Slater (Apr 2, 2018)

_"3. Low end bass seems to have been reduced,.."_

Uh oh...less sub bass than the ZS6??


----------



## VinceHill24

Well i bought zs10 from AE too and it appears that only Black colour is available currently and blue and red are not available yet anytime soon as the seller told me, maybe in a few days more. So if you order red or blue you may still have to wait whereas if you order black then likely it will be shipped out within these few days. I think if you can't wait you can ask the seller to switch to black if you have ordered other colours.

And another thing is in China yet again a once a year thing national holiday (seems like they have many holidays lol), i have no idea how to translate that but it's like ancestral prayer thing that ppl will be visiting graves / cemetery of their ancestors so some delay is expected i guess.


----------



## zozito

VinceHill24 said:


> Well i bought zs10 from AE too and it appears that only Black colour is available currently and blue and red are not available yet anytime soon as the seller told me, maybe in a few days more. So if you order red or blue you may still have to wait whereas if you order black then likely it will be shipped out within these few days. I think if you can't wait you can ask the seller to switch to black if you have ordered other colours.
> 
> And another thing is in China yet again a once a year thing national holiday (seems like they have many holidays lol), i have no idea how to translate that but it's like ancestral prayer thing that ppl will be visiting graves / cemetery of their ancestors so some delay is expected i guess.


Mine is a black one.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> _"3. Low end bass seems to have been reduced,.."_
> 
> Uh oh...less sub bass than the ZS6??



Keep in mind that the reviewer's source might have played a part there.

In the meantime,  for the uninitiated:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/


----------



## CYoung234 (Apr 2, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Has anyone not on the Chinese mainland received a shipment notification from AE? At least I got a shipment notification for my green KZ ZS6 from NiceHCK. I was starting to get worried as another order from NiceHCK was dispatched within a day and this one was taking a bit longer.


According to AE, mine shipped yesterday. AK store, if I remember correctly. Mine were black, no mic...


----------



## DSebastiao

I wanted to get the ZS10, but since it's 1dd + 4ba, i think i should go for the zs6 as i'm more into lower frequencies...


----------



## kukkurovaca

bsoplinger said:


> This isn't the right thread to ask but I can't find a Chi-Fi amplifier thread. And there seems to be a few knowledgeable folks here so…
> 
> Does anyone know where I can buy additional amplifier rubber bands? I mean those heavier than office ones for securing your amp to your phone or DAP? I tried a search within category on AliExpress for rubber band in the portable electronics category but it always puts me into general results where it shows nothing but office type ones. I have a few sizes of these things because I've bought a few amps but its a case of I want more this size but the amp came with that size. Figured they couldn't be too expensive to purchase on their own but I can't find the requisite magical phrase to find any. Any help would be appreciated.





mbwilson111 said:


> found one example... maybe to use as a starting point to find search words... I would include silcone (which is not the same as silicon... I see that confusion quite a bit)
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silicone-i...9&sr=8-1&keywords=silicone+bands+portable+amp
> 
> ...



These might be an option, they come in a bunch of sizes. But kind of pricey for bits of silicone. The x-shaped ones look particularly interesting for stacking. There's even an example photo of a phone stacked with a Fiio amp, although in that particular case it looks quite awkward and the strap is depressing the phone's power button, lol. 

https://www.amazon.com/Wrapping-Exercise-MacBooks-Replacements-Silicone/dp/B00IFGQVH2/
https://www.amazon.com/Wrapping-Exercise-MacBooks-Replacements-Silicone/dp/B00IFMMZY4/


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> _"3. Low end bass seems to have been reduced,.."_
> 
> Uh oh...less sub bass than the ZS6??


This can’t be true... can it?


----------



## oyobass

The pattern is the same each time:

KZ announce new product:

Mass speculation, with product panned or praised based on pre-release pictures and wild guesses
Small number released into the wild
Mass speculation, with product panned or praised based on limited numbers of the IEM released into the wild, with sometimes poorly translated reviews and wild guesses
General release and over the top reviews, confusingly both positive and negative
Reliable reviews from trusted sources, followed by heated denials from people who will not believe a decent IEM can cost so little
General acceptance that said IEM is a solid value, but may not be to everyone's taste or comfort level
KZ announce a new product:  

Repeat cycle.... 
Makes Head-Fi a fun place to hang out.


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> Keep in mind that the reviewer's source might have played a part there.
> 
> In the meantime,  for the uninitiated:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/



You convinced me.  Just ordered the KZ ATR from Amazon UK for £5.48...ships fron China.

BTW ...is there a reason you limit who can see your profile?  I think I have tried more than once.


----------



## handwander

HotFi on AliExpress has the ZS10 for -38% on mobile (vs 21% on desktop) if anyone is interested.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 2, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> You convinced me.  Just ordered the KZ ATR from Amazon UK for £5.48...ships fron China.
> 
> BTW ...is there a reason you limit who can see your profile?  I think I have tried more than once.



I didn't do so (limit) consciously,  but I haven't filled in my info as of yet. 




 
The ATR is a great grab-it-and-go IEM. Most of us here have a bevy of gear to choose from for at-home or analytical listening but we don't necessarily want to risk losing or damaging them while traveling or commuting. The ATR with a good set of silicone earhooks is the answer to the question few people consider asking out loud. When yours arrive please fill us in on your experience with them and thanks for the acknowledgement; it inspires me to continue revisiting the outgoing models that have been overshadowed by KZ's newest crop. The HDS3 review will be posted in a few days and it also is a worthwhile and classic KZ.

Thanks again.

p.s. - if the new ED15 and ZS10 are anything to go by this ol' standard but sturdy KZ cable, which has held up very well on every KZ I know of, may be on the way out. On most in-ear monitors the cable is usually the weak link but with KZ IEMs the cable is usually never the issue if you order your KZ without a microphone. At any rate, let's hope the ED15's braided cable sees widespread use in newer releases.


----------



## Makahl

I got a new KZ ZS3 so far my impressions are underwhelmed:

- I can't use my favorite eartips Tennmak Turbo due to this nozzle lipless even Starlines are getting stuck in my ears. 
- That sounds different from the first version I've had (the matte one).
- Harder to get loud volumes on my phones. 
- I bought that expecting a fun IEM with a good bass, so far the SQ isn't quite close to something like LG QB3, KZ ZST/ZS5v1 or Blitzwolf ES-1. (Using sources: Sansa Clip+, Sabaj DA2, LG V20) 

Well, that is my first impressions after 1 year since I lost my old KZ ZS3. I'll try to change the cable to TRN V10 and blueetooth perhaps there's something wrong in the chain.


----------



## CoiL

mbwilson111 said:


> You convinced me.  Just ordered the KZ ATR from Amazon UK for £5.48...ships fron China.
> BTW ...is there a reason you limit who can see your profile?  I think I have tried more than once.


I will note out again that new ATR (I got it from gearbest) has exactly same driver inside as 5th gen latest ATE (red shelled) and sounds exactly same.
There may be lot of older ATR with blue shelled driver still left but it is gamble. Just be warned


----------



## CoiL

Makahl said:


> I got a new KZ ZS3 so far my impressions are underwhelmed:
> 
> - I can't use my favorite eartips Tennmak Turbo due to this nozzle lipless even Starlines are getting stuck in my ears.
> - That sounds different from the first version I've had (the matte one).
> ...


Sorry to say... but new ZS3 sounds nothing special and has lot of QC issues with nozzle inner tubing. Wish I had gotten 1st gen ZS3 with better SQ.


----------



## Adide (Apr 2, 2018)

Makahl said:


> I got a new KZ ZS3 so far my impressions are underwhelmed:



I believe you are right.
ZS3 was my first KZ (spring 2017) and immediately blew my senn cx300ii out of the water pretty much in terms of everything besides forward mids. However, from reading the forums, later I learned I got the later batch (another KZ stealth change) of glossy ZS3 which seems to be very different from the early matte batch which were more balanced and loved by seasoned early adopters.

ZS5v1 is in an others class. Later ZS3 surpass it only in isolation.

I believe one should be carefull in buying the latest ZS3 as it doesn't seems to be the same as the one owned by those who praise it.

Edit: lately I've tried to bring ZS3 into rotation along with TNT and ZS5(I) as a bass heavy alternative. Just can't. It's a muddy mess in comparison. And to think of they topped my gear at one point... that's how one's taste and experience evolves with more listened iems. They are fs on local classifieds now. If you want clean bass centric signature I think (from reading) you might want to try your luck with CM5 or the more expensive Z5000 - mind you I tried none, it's just what I would do.

Edit 2: the impressions above are with @Slater KZ ZS3 mod. Unfortunately futile.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 2, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I will note out again that new ATR (I got it from gearbest) has exactly same driver inside as 5th gen latest ATE (red shelled) and sounds exactly same.
> There may be lot of older ATR with blue shelled driver still left but it is gamble. Just be warned



I don't have an ATE.  Not sure if you are saying that what I get might be horrible?  I just felt like checking out the ATR...at only £5.


----------



## rayliam80 (Apr 2, 2018)

Makahl said:


> I got a new KZ ZS3 so far my impressions are underwhelmed:
> 
> - I can't use my favorite eartips Tennmak Turbo due to this nozzle lipless even Starlines are getting stuck in my ears.
> - That sounds different from the first version I've had (the matte one).
> ...



I bought my ZS3 last November from Gear Best and it appears shiny. With the stock cable, I find it to be bass heavy even with wide-bore tips. LGV30 -> Normal/Flat EQ -> Short Filter. Loudness is not an issue (normal quad dac mode).

I'm not trying to disagree or discount what you say but perhaps yours are faulty in some way? It seems odd.


----------



## Superluc

What is the most fatigue free KZ that you have try ?

@CoiL: A pair of new ATR, if used with foam, can suit the need of something bass-light, smooth and without sibilance ?


----------



## Makahl (Apr 2, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> I bought my ZS3 last November from Gear Best and it appears shiny. With the stock cable, I find it to be bass heavy even with wide-bore tips. LGV30 -> Normal/Flat EQ -> Short Filter. Loudness is not an issue (normal quad dac mode).
> 
> I'm not trying to disagree or discount what you say but perhaps yours are faulty in some way? It seems odd.




Well, indeed that's odd since 100% of reviews which I've watched recently they got this shiny version and everyone talks about bass as its best point. Perhaps I got a lemon which isn't even a surprise due to a lot of reports recently of drivers fallings and tubes/foams out of place. I will give it more tests through this week and report if I find something.


----------



## Superluc

I'm thinking about buy something cheap, decent, perhaps even boring , but with enough isolation. I remember the guy that was all about the ED7, but the isolation seem very poor on them.

I have a pair of EDR1 on the way, but maybe are too bassy for that.


----------



## snip3r77

oyobass said:


> The pattern is the same each time:
> 
> KZ announce new product:
> 
> ...


Rather spend on some other brand, less hassle


----------



## nkramer (Apr 2, 2018)

in search of isolation.....

- good isolation is mainly a combination of tip material & insert depth.
    the deeper you can insert with a good foam or double/tripple flange would provide better isolation than any shallow insertion.
- look for small barrel style IEMs (rather than the custom looking shells)
- you can also try... (was it coil's) reversed foam tip method? which puts the taper or the foam against the IEM instead of the "correct" way. (you just put the foam tips on backwards, it actually works good)


----------



## Wiljen

I would understand all the driver changes if KZ wasn't manufacturing them.  If I buy a box of drivers and use them until I run out, then buy another box and do the same again, I can see why each new lot could have a different driver.  When you own the production equipment and make the drivers, why you choose to muddy the waters and ruin the reputation of an established product is beyond me.   My guess is the QC in manufacturing of drivers is as bad as that of assembling products and the differing lots were supposed to be the same thing and just missed the mark.


----------



## riffrafff

Superluc said:


> I'm thinking about buy something cheap, decent, perhaps even boring , but with enough isolation. I remember the guy that was all about the ED7, but the isolation seem very poor on them.
> 
> I have a pair of EDR1 on the way, but maybe are too bassy for that.



I received my EDR1's today, and they do indeed "punch above their weight," as folk 'round here like to say.     I remember someone (@Slater maybe?) saying that replacing the red mesh with stainless steel improved them even more?  I just need to figure out diameter of SS mesh I need to order.  You know, just because I can't seem to leave anything alone.


----------



## Superluc

nkramer said:


> in search of isolation.....
> 
> - good isolation is mainly a combination of tip material & insert depth.
> the deeper you can insert with a good foam or double/tripple flange would provide better isolation than any shallow insertion.
> ...


I'm not that much in search of isolation, i just don't have a pair of IEM with a veiled/soft signature. I haven't try the ED7, but i have see reported that are very leaky.


----------



## oyobass

snip3r77 said:


> Rather spend on some other brand, less hassle


Now where's the fun in that?


----------



## snip3r77

oyobass said:


> Now where's the fun in that?


Kz = fun? There are tons of other brand that is more fun


----------



## oyobass

snip3r77 said:


> Kz = fun? There are tons of other brand that is more fun


Just kidding with ya. I like my KZ earphones, because they got me back into the hobby. I like the sound of 'em. They look nice.
You are, of course, free to disagree with any of my opinions, including me kidding around.


----------



## riffrafff

Bah.  KZ's are great sport.


----------



## snip3r77

oyobass said:


> Just kidding with ya. I like my KZ earphones, because they got me back into the hobby. I like the sound of 'em. They look nice.
> You are, of course, free to disagree with any of my opinions, including me kidding around.


Ahha did you buy Zs10 ?


----------



## oyobass

riffrafff said:


> Bah.  KZ's are great sport.


If you are an early adopter, it is kind of like putting money into a capsule toy vending machine. You never know what you'll get.
So far I've enjoyed the ride.


----------



## oyobass (Apr 2, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Ahha did you buy Zs10 ?


Not yet. Probably will...
I already have a number of really decent IEMs. 
I'm slowing down on the early adopter thing. Now it's more of the wait for the reliable reviews thing.


----------



## riffrafff

oyobass said:


> If you are an early adopter, it is kind of like putting money into a capsule toy vending machine. You never know what you'll get.
> So far I've enjoyed the ride.



Exactly.  It's "like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gonna get."


----------



## oyobass

riffrafff said:


> Exactly.  It's "like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gonna get."


KZ is as KZ does...


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Has anybody ordered ZS10? When is the expected time to get them?


----------



## CYoung234

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Has anybody ordered ZS10? When is the expected time to get them?



Seems like a lot of people ordered them. If you take the time to go back a few pages in the thread, you will see. Sounds like some in HK will be receiving theirs shortly. Mine will be at least a month or more to get to me in Paraguay, via Miami....


----------



## hiflofi

I'm not 100% sure I want the ZS10 after hearing that the bass may be reduced. ZS6 seems to have a good signature despite the treble (which isn't problematic to me). Bonus is that the ZS6 build quality seems to look better than the ZS10. This is all just my opinion of course.


----------



## Saoshyant

I’ll order the ZS10, but I’m waiting this time.  With ZS5 & 6 by the time they arrived GB already had a solid sale going, and in the case of the ZS6 some GB orders arrived before my preorder.  As it is I have a $500 earbud on it’s way, so I doubt the zs10 would get much eartime for awhile.


----------



## durwood (Apr 3, 2018)

For those that find the ZS3 bass shy, check the polarity, which should be for all KZ. Mine just didn't sound right even fighting with almost too much seal that the tip deformed too much and would created too much ear pressure. I decided to do the audiocheck.net polarity check and found one reversed, Luckily you can swap the cable around even if it doesn't fit 100% correct. After fixing the polarity they are heavy in the bass department compared to the majority that I own now. The problem I have is they are one of the hardest for me to just put in my ears and go, too much fiddling. I have heard to try the smaller tips than usual since they insert deeper, but I have not tried that yet.

I also received a set of ZSE wired backwards. I will probably hack the plug off and wire it correctly some day.

I do enjoy the ATR more and there are very minor differences at least to me when compared to the Uiisii CM5. I think maybe the ATR is a tiny bit more midbass, and treble is slightly less, Just rather enjoyable and comfort is a bit better. The CM5 tend to work their way out of my ears using the stock tips, and there is a bump somewhere in their contour that doesn't quite fit MY ear right.


----------



## kukkurovaca

It took me an hilariously long time to suspect that my ZSR had wrong polarity. (User error on my part; I had somehow put one of the cables on backwards.) It is indeed worth checking.


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> Here's photos of the red screen so you know what to expect:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow the search function within the thread is really helpful. These foams were behind the red mesh on both sides for me. I have inserted the foams into the tube but I also realized these tubes are kind of crooked. There's a sweet spot to get the bass if I fit a bit different the sound gets muffed at some frequencies.

@CoiL If I'm not mistaken you've already modded your ZS3, right? Is that hard opening the ZS3 and replacing the tube? I've got some 3x2 PVC tubes from my BA projects maybe is that enough? I think if I can replace the tube and fix the angle I'll solve this fitting problem.


----------



## Bartig

Adide said:


> I believe you are right.
> ZS3 was my first KZ (spring 2017) and immediately blew my senn cx300ii out of the water pretty much in terms of everything besides forward mids. However, from reading the forums, later I learned I got the later batch (another KZ stealth change) of glossy ZS3 which seems to be very different from the early matte batch which were more balanced and loved by seasoned early adopters.
> 
> ZS5v1 is in an others class. Later ZS3 surpass it only in isolation.
> ...


I agree. The ZS3, of all the KZ’s I tried, has the most messy and muddy sound. The mid bass overwhelming the bass and sacrificing some of the mids... it just doesn’t work for me.


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> The CM5 tend to work their way out of my ears using the stock tips, and there is a bumb somewhere in their contour that doesn't quite fit MY ear right.



I had this exact problem with the stock tips too. The KZ Starlines fixed the issue. The CM5 feels like it was made for my ears now.

Give that a try if you have some Starlines available.


----------



## ricemanhk (Apr 3, 2018)

ZS10 is in da house!
Braided stock cable (with mic confirmed) is heappppps better than the old sticky rubber cable.  It's about 3cm longer than the ZSR stock cable and 10cm longer than my ZS5v1 stock cable (w/ 3 button remote), so that's nice.

Very brief first impressions vs ZSR and ZS5v1
ZS10 highs are detailed and lively but not overboard, don't hear any sibilance yet. Mids are good, definitely less recessed than ZS5.  Bass is strong and present, fairly similar to ZSR, though I feel like ZSR extends a bit deeper but this could be a difference in fit.  I get a superb fit with the ZSR/ZS3 shell, the ZS10 is somewhat similar to the ZST in terms of fit.  The housing itself is the biggest one yet, so it sticks out a bit more than the others, but the ear canal part is fine for me, width of the nozzle is same as ZS5.  No lip on the nozzle again though...sigh I hope the tips stay on better than the ZS5.  The black starlines that are firmer hopefully helps a bit.

Immediate feeling is the ZS10 sounds like a ZSR with better treble.  Or you could say it's like the ZS5 without the sibilance and warmer sounding and a bit more bass/sub bass.  I like the ZSR alot and this only improves on it SQ wise, only minor regression is the fit (for me).

As for power requirements, I need ~8/10 volume on my phone for ZS5v1, ~7/10 for ZS10 and ~6/10 for ZSR for the same volume, so these should work fine with phones.

Hope you all get yours soon!

Update: soundstage is one of the widest I've ever heard on IEMs.  I thought ZS5 was a big improvement on ZST for soundstage already, but ZS10 is even wider...

Imaging and separation is also improved over ZSR, likely due to the crossovers.  Vs ZS5 I feel like ZS5 has a tad more detail in the highs, but that could also simply be due to its treble crowding out everything else. 

All in all, I'm liking the ZS10 alot, feels more balanced though still a fun sound sig, hopefully it opens up even more with some more hours of burn in.


----------



## ricemanhk

Tried the TRN Bluetooth aptx module with the ZS10 as well, works very well, I'm struggling to hear differences LOL.
And yes Apt-X works, it shows up on my phone saying apt-x is the protocol being used.

Range is better than the KZ module, though too many thick walls in between will still result in cuts.  But if the usage time really is the 8hr they claimed then I'm going to be super happy!


----------



## TLDRonin

ricemanhk said:


> ZS10 is in da house!
> Braided stock cable (with mic confirmed) is heappppps better than the old sticky rubber cable.  It's about 3cm longer than the ZSR stock cable and 10cm longer than my ZS5v1 stock cable (w/ 3 button remote), so that's nice.
> 
> Very brief first impressions vs ZSR and ZS5v1
> ...


How is the sounstage?

Sounds like a proper flagship model for KZ! Im hyped!


----------



## Bartig

ricemanhk said:


> ZS10 is in da house!
> 
> Immediate feeling is the ZS10 sounds like a ZSR with better treble.  Or you could say it's like the ZS5 without the sibilance and warmer sounding and a bit more bass/sub bass.  I like the ZSR alot and this only improves on it SQ wise, only minor regression is the fit (for me).


Exactly what I was thinking it would be, great to hear, thanks! Hope to receive mine soon.


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> No lip on the nozzle again though...sigh I hope the tips stay on better than the ZS5.  The black starlines that are firmer hopefully helps a bit.



KZ - If you’re reading this - STOP doing this. Having no lip serves NO purpose.


----------



## ricemanhk (Apr 3, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> How is the sounstage?
> 
> Sounds like a proper flagship model for KZ! Im hyped!



Added an update to my earlier post.  Soundstage is one of the widest I've ever heard on IEMs.  I thought ZS5 was a big improvement on ZST for soundstage already, but ZS10 is even wider...

Imaging and separation is also improved over ZSR, likely due to the crossovers. Vs ZS5 I feel like ZS5 has a tad more detail in the highs, but that could also simply be due to its treble crowding out everything else. 

All in all, I'm liking the ZS10 alot, feels more balanced though still a fun sound sig, hopefully it opens up even more with some more hours of burn in.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> KZ - If you’re reading this - STOP doing this. Having no lip serves NO purpose.


----------



## Mellowship

riffrafff said:


> Exactly.  It's "like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gonna get."


Today I'm sporting my kz ie80. They're old, well built and sound good. Bought them with no expectations and still use them after so many years (in kz time... ).


----------



## CoiL (Apr 3, 2018)

Superluc said:


> What is the most fatigue free KZ that you have try ?
> @CoiL: A pair of new ATR, if used with foam, can suit the need of something bass-light, smooth and without sibilance ?


Latest ATR&ATE do not use foam in nozzle and both don`t have sibilance. They are detailed with little warmth and good bass extension (but not bassy).



Makahl said:


> @CoiL If I'm not mistaken you've already modded your ZS3, right? Is that hard opening the ZS3 and replacing the tube? I've got some 3x2 PVC tubes from my BA projects maybe is that enough? I think if I can replace the tube and fix the angle I'll solve this fitting problem.


Yes, I`ve modded my ZS3 already and replaced whole nozzle but haven`t had time to mess with final tuning. I actually wish to add BA to ATE 5th gen driver.
But I suppose You can replace that crappy shrink-tube with proper PVC tubing. Though, You have to seal it airtight.


ricemanhk said:


> ZS10 is in da house!
> Braided stock cable (with mic confirmed) is heappppps better than the old sticky rubber cable.  It's about 3cm longer than the ZSR stock cable and 10cm longer than my ZS5v1 stock cable (w/ 3 button remote), so that's nice.
> 
> Very brief first impressions vs ZSR and ZS5v1
> ...


Damn... this sounds too tempting. Will wait for more feedback. I`m junkie for soundstage. ZS5v1 is already like "open back HP" with my gear... wonder what ZS10 could sound with my gear.


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> KZ - If you’re reading this - STOP doing this. Having no lip serves NO purpose.


I, for one, enjoy having my eartips fall off

seriously though, kz added lips to the newer ZS6s, why not add it to ZS10s


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 3, 2018)

durwood said:


> The CM5 tend to work their way out of my ears using the stock tips





Slater said:


> I had this exact problem with the stock tips too. The KZ Starlines fixed the issue. The CM5 feels like it was made for my ears now.
> 
> Give that a try if you have some Starlines available.



I also find the Starline tips to be perfect for the Uiisii CM5.  Very comfortable and sound great.  I do have the ATR on the way.   Will be interesting to see how it sounds to me.


----------



## ricemanhk

TLDRonin said:


> I, for one, enjoy having my eartips fall off
> 
> seriously though, kz added lips to the newer ZS6s, why not add it to ZS10s



They added the lip to the ZSR too...but maybe the ZS10 shells were made prior to this, as rumors for the ZS10 (then called ZSR pro) were at least a few months if not a year ago...


----------



## WalterTorino

CoiL said:


> Latest ATR&ATE do not use foam in nozzle and both don`t have sibilance. They are detailed with little warmth and good bass extension (but not bassy).


I have the ATE and i like it a lot. 
And, of course, in the case of only one dynamic driver aboard, there are no sibilants.


----------



## Superluc

CoiL said:


> Latest ATR&ATE do not use foam in nozzle and both don`t have sibilance. They are detailed with little warmth and good bass extension (but not bassy).


Thanks 

So there are no difference between actual ATE and ATR ? Just aesthetic ?


----------



## WalterTorino

ricemanhk said:


> ZS10 is in da house!
> Braided stock cable (with mic confirmed) is heappppps better than the old sticky rubber cable.  It's about 3cm longer than the ZSR stock cable and 10cm longer than my ZS5v1 stock cable (w/ 3 button remote), so that's nice.
> 
> Very brief first impressions vs ZSR and ZS5v1
> ...


Can you make some photos please?


----------



## TLDRonin

WalterTorino said:


> Can you make some photos please?


http://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2433345&extra=page=1&page=1


----------



## oyobass

TLDRonin said:


> http://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2433345&extra=page=1&page=1


Those look better in your photos than in the official ones.


----------



## ricemanhk

The only thing I'm sad about ZS10 is no more kickass packaging (I got the nice black box for ZS5)....tho I guess their margins are thin enough already.


----------



## ricemanhk

oyobass said:


> Those look better in your photos than in the official ones.



The black pair I got do look nicer than the official pictures which look more like renders.

Also from what I can see through the transparent case, the DD, the pair of mid BA and the pair of tweeter BA are all separated by plastic walls inside the housing, so there are like "channels" from each going towards the nozzle.  I'm guessing this helps with interference/crosstalk between the drivers?


----------



## Bartig

Superluc said:


> Thanks
> 
> So there are no difference between actual ATE and ATR ? Just aesthetic ?


Unless KZ changed something the last year, there are differences. The ATR has a more cleaned up bass and mid bass, making things tighter, although sometimes not as full as the ATE. I prefer the sound of the ATE - have the feeling the ATR is missing something.


----------



## WalterTorino

Guys, can anyone please help translate the phrase from the comments to zs10? Google translator in Russian translates it as "mosquitoes within 400 mosquitoes"  It's very interesting how it actually sounds 

Here it is: 
係咪400蚊内


----------



## aspire5550

WalterTorino said:


> Guys, can anyone please help translate the phrase from the comments to zs10? Google translator in Russian translates it as "mosquitoes within 400 mosquitoes"  It's very interesting how it actually sounds
> 
> Here it is:
> 係咪400蚊内


"Is it within 400 hkd?"
Implying is the price less than 400hkd (hong kong dollar)

The 2nd last word is the word for mosquito, but the word is also the chinese equivalent of bucks. i.e. 400 bucks


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> Thanks
> 
> So there are no difference between actual ATE and ATR ? Just aesthetic ?



ATR body is (stiffer and stronger) polycarbonate plastic. If this directly translates to better sound I don't know for sure. But generally, stiffer body materials are more desirable for best sound (metal vs plastic, thicker body vs thinner, etc).


----------



## WalterTorino

aspire5550 said:


> "Is it within 400 hkd?"
> Implying is the price less than 400hkd (hong kong dollar)
> 
> The 2nd last word is the word for mosquito, but the word is also the chinese equivalent of bucks. i.e. 400 bucks


Thank you))) Lost in translation


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> The black pair I got do look nicer than the official pictures which look more like renders.
> 
> Also from what I can see through the transparent case, the DD, the pair of mid BA and the pair of tweeter BA are all separated by plastic walls inside the housing, so there are like "channels" from each going towards the nozzle.  I'm guessing this helps with interference/crosstalk between the drivers?



The channels act like the BA tubes you see on some gear (generally higher end or carefully tuned IEMs).

You can see where the drivers are separated at the nozzle on IEMs like the ASK Hybrid or CA Andromeda:


 

While the ZS10 nozzle doesn't look like that, KZ is basically doing the same thing, only covering the channels with a nozzle screen:


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 3, 2018)

Superluc said:


> I'm thinking about buy something cheap, decent, perhaps even boring , but with enough isolation. I remember the guy that was all about the ED7, but the isolation seem very poor on them.
> 
> I have a pair of EDR1 on the way, but maybe are too bassy for that.



Isolation on these is wholly dependent on finding the right eartip.......which wasn't easy, but the pay off was nice enough.


 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/


----------



## Superluc

DocHoliday said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/


Thanks, very interesting review 

So i may add to my bunch of KZ either the ATR or the ED7... or both


----------



## DocHoliday

Superluc said:


> Thanks, very interesting review
> 
> So i may add to my bunch of KZ either the ATR or the ED7... or both



I know.....I know....

....but you've got it easy. 

Me? Let's see....
I still want the ZSR in white and red......and the new blue
Then there are the Pewter ZS6's before those disappear. 
Then there's the ZS10 in its colors.
Then there's the ED15 in both silver and black.
......and this doesn't even include the other eight models about to enter the marketplace.

Anyway, it's cheaper than golf or collecting muscles cars so.....


----------



## durwood (Apr 3, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Anyway, it's cheaper than golf or collecting muscles cars so.....



...and more compact. I keep telling my wife (and myself) it's even the most compact of my audio collecting hobbies, besides the music these days. I am not collecting the colors though, I vary them based on if a certain color catches my eye or if I just want it to be incognito. I started off with a couple, and they were intersting enough and cheap enough to see if I could find one that was my go-to. Up until a few months ago, my only IEM was the tripleFi because my first budget BA was the apple dual which I cannot stand.


----------



## Mellowship

DocHoliday said:


> Isolation on these is wholly dependent on finding the right eartip.......which wasn't easy, but the pay off was nice enough.
> 
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/



I can confirm. They isolate rather well with foam tips (t200 size). 
The ed7 are sweet sounding iems. But I find them source dependant. The "cheapest" they get source wise, the better they play. I believe they don't really perform well amplified.


----------



## durwood (Apr 3, 2018)

I also feel a little bit dirty buying some of these considering I spent about a year interning at Knowles many years ago, well before IEM's were consumer items and not professional devices/hearing aides. And to think they were paranoid about their processes they never patented and kept trade secrets in a big vault back back in time.


----------



## Bartig

durwood said:


> I also feel a little bit dirty buying some of these considering I spent about a year interning at Knowles many years ago, well before IEM's were consumer items and not professional devices/hearing aides. And to think they were paranoid about their processes they never patented and kept trade secrets in a big vault back back in time.


A patent is worth nothing in China, right?


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 3, 2018)

Bartig said:


> A patent is worth nothing in China, right?



Oops....

the can.......is now, open.....

Worms? 

......EVERYWHERE !!!!.


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> I know.....I know....
> 
> ....but you've got it easy.
> 
> ...


Did you forget a green pair of ZS6 in that list or did you buy one when they were initially released?


----------



## durwood

DocHoliday said:


> Oops....
> 
> the can.......is now, open.....
> 
> ...


Oh jeez, barrel of monkeys put the lid back on...sorry didn't mean to do that.
Well, IIRC they had production or were moving production to China back then so...they are chi-fi too.  move along, nothing to see here.


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> .....and this doesn't even include the other eight models about to enter the marketplace.



I am waiting for the purple one... just because it is purple


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 3, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Did you forget a green pair of ZS6 in that list or did you buy one when they were initially released?



My second pair

and

Absolutely lov'em!


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 3, 2018)

ricemanhk said:


> ZS10 is in da house!
> Braided stock cable (with mic confirmed) is heappppps better than the old sticky rubber cable.  It's about 3cm longer than the ZSR stock cable and 10cm longer than my ZS5v1 stock cable (w/ 3 button remote), so that's nice.
> 
> Very brief first impressions vs ZSR and ZS5v1
> ...




Looks like you're first up to bat!

No pressure...... of course..... 

(says he as his leg starts shaking uncontrollably while trying to maintain a sincere disposition........the veins in his neck clearly visible as he strains to remain calm. His high-pitched whisper has given him away.....but still he whispers with feigned restraint "no pressure.....no pressure")

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs10-in-ear-monitor.23011/


----------



## CoiL

Superluc said:


> Thanks
> 
> So there are no difference between actual ATE and ATR ? Just aesthetic ?


I can only tell about the units I received ~1 month ago from Gearbest. Considering amount of ATR/ ATE being selled, You could receive older ATR too.
Only way to tell would be removing nozzle mesh and look inside barrel - if You see blue plastic, You have got older ATR, if red, then newer version (ATE).


----------



## WildSeven

DocHoliday said:


> My second pair
> 
> and
> 
> Absolutely lov'em!



I've got 2 ZS6 already, one black and one red, made a hybrid Black with Red face-plate. I've always wanted a green, now they are back in stock I might grab one as well.


----------



## anindyameister

ricemanhk said:


> Tried the TRN Bluetooth aptx module with the ZS10 as well, works very well, I'm struggling to hear differences LOL.
> And yes Apt-X works, it shows up on my phone saying apt-x is the protocol being used.
> 
> Range is better than the KZ module, though too many thick walls in between will still result in cuts.  But if the usage time really is the 8hr they claimed then I'm going to be super happy!


I'm assuming you are referring to the 2 pin neckband, Where did u get it may I ask ? Cause the one I have doesn't show aptx.

This is from my TRN BT3, shows a single audio sink with SBC.

```
$ sudo hcidump avdtp
HCI sniffer - Bluetooth packet analyzer ver 5.44
device: hci0 snap_len: 1500 filter: 0x400
< AVDTP(s): Discover cmd: transaction 6 nsp 0x00
> AVDTP(s): Discover rsp: transaction 6 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1 - Audio Sink
< AVDTP(s): Capabilities cmd: transaction 7 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
> AVDTP(s): Capabilities rsp: transaction 7 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - SBC
      16kHz 32kHz 44.1kHz 48kHz
      Mono DualChannel Stereo JointStereo
      4 8 12 16 Blocks
      4 8 Subbands
      SNR Loudness
      Bitpool Range 2-53
    Content Protection
      02 00
< AVDTP(s): Set config cmd: transaction 8 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1 - INT SEID 1
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - SBC
      44.1kHz
      JointStereo
      16 Blocks
      8 Subbands
      Loudness
      Bitpool Range 2-53
> AVDTP(s): Set config rsp: transaction 8 nsp 0x00
< AVDTP(s): Open cmd: transaction 9 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
> AVDTP(s): Open rsp: transaction 9 nsp 0x00
< AVDTP(s): Start cmd: transaction 10 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
```

And this is from my Fiio BTR1

```
$ sudo hcidump avdtp
HCI sniffer - Bluetooth packet analyzer ver 5.44
device: hci0 snap_len: 1500 filter: 0x400
< AVDTP(s): Discover cmd: transaction 13 nsp 0x00
> AVDTP(s): Discover rsp: transaction 13 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 6 - Audio Sink
    ACP SEID 5 - Audio Sink
    ACP SEID 53 - Audio Source
    ACP SEID 21 - Audio Sink
    ACP SEID 49 - Audio Source
    ACP SEID 17 - Audio Sink
    ACP SEID 33 - Audio Source
    ACP SEID 1 - Audio Sink
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 14 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 6
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 14 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (Unknown)
      32 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 15 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 5
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 15 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (aptX)
      44.1kHz 48kHz
      Stereo
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 0 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 53
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 0 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (Unknown)
      07 09 00 FF 4F 00 00 00 01 00 32
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 1 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 21
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 1 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (Unknown)
      07 09 00 FF 4F 00 00 00 01 00 32
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 2 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 49
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 2 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (Unknown)
      07 06 00 00 FF FF 02 35
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 3 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 17
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 3 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (Unknown)
      07 06 00 00 FF FF 02 35
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 4 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 33
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 4 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - SBC
      16kHz 32kHz 44.1kHz 48kHz
      Mono DualChannel Stereo JointStereo
      4 8 12 16 Blocks
      4 8 Subbands
      SNR Loudness
      Bitpool Range 2-53
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): All Capabilities cmd: transaction 5 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
> AVDTP(s): All Capabilities rsp: transaction 5 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - SBC
      16kHz 32kHz 44.1kHz 48kHz
      Mono DualChannel Stereo JointStereo
      4 8 12 16 Blocks
      4 8 Subbands
      SNR Loudness
      Bitpool Range 2-53
    Content Protection
      02 00
    Delay Reporting
< AVDTP(s): Set config cmd: transaction 6 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1 - INT SEID 1
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - SBC
      44.1kHz
      JointStereo
      16 Blocks
      8 Subbands
      Loudness
      Bitpool Range 2-53
> AVDTP(s): Set config rsp: transaction 6 nsp 0x00
< AVDTP(s): Open cmd: transaction 7 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
```


----------



## rayliam80

DocHoliday said:


> My second pair
> 
> and
> 
> Absolutely lov'em!



I'm waiting for my green ones now. I couldn't resist. I told myself I wouldn't buy duplicates in different colors but that's all out the window now. The green is just too handsome as well as being my favorite color too. I've skipped out on the ZSR for now but I must say the white ones have caught my eye*.* I'm glad the ZS10 only comes in one decent looking color and even then it doesn't seem to be all that great looking to me.


----------



## Slater

anindyameister said:


> I'm assuming you are referring to the 2 pin neckband, Where did u get it may I ask ? Cause the one I have doesn't show aptx.
> 
> This is from my TRN BT3, shows a single audio sink with SBC.
> 
> ...



So is that good or bad?


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> So is that good or bad?


I used Google's Translate to English option... it didn't help.


----------



## riffrafff

LOL.  One shows the APT-X codec in use, the other does not.


----------



## oyobass

riffrafff said:


> LOL.  One shows the APT-X codec in use, the other does not.


To quote @Slater: "So is that good or bad?"


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 3, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> I'm waiting for my green ones now. I couldn't resist. I told myself I wouldn't buy duplicates in different colors but that's all out the window now. The green is just too handsome as well as being my favorite color too. I've skipped out on the ZSR for now but I must say the white ones have caught my eye*.* I'm glad the ZS10 only comes in one decent looking color and even then it doesn't seem to be all that great looking to me.



Some folks reading this thread probably think that those of us that buy multiple sets or colors of KZ's are.....well.....touched, hehe...

Yes, some of us collect KZ's like trading cards or baseball cards but buying multipke KZ's is about more than just collecting. It's also about strategy. Follow along.

I missed out on buying a backup pair of ZS5(i) but several weeks ago I traded a very popular and very good IEM to secure a backup ZS5(i). I now own two pair of the ZS5(i).

I never received the HDS2 that I ordered just before the existing stock dried up and the HDS2 disappeared from radar. A week ago I entered into negotiations with a head-fi member to secure at least one, but maybe even two HDS2's via trade or cash.

Obtain the future rarities of the here and now because KZ switches gears often and when they do everything is in the rearview mirror and fading fast. The larger the fan base, the larger the number of collectors and the natural law of supply and demand kicks in. If this is your hobby.....improve your position for negotiating. 

I cringe every time I hear someone say "I didn't like them so I throughout them in the trash"


 At any rate, I know the HDS2 was not a top performing KZ and it's been two years since anyone has seen one but in the inimitable words of one Thomas Crown 

"anything is obtainable".


----------



## Storyteller

KZ ZSE bought on GearBest some time ago. Sounded terrible so I discarded them for a while as they costed very cheap. I Recently discovered the Right side was out of phase thanks to the audiocheck test and today I opened it and re-cabled it. Now they sound right, with the usual KZ sound, not bad at all for that price. Bass is prominent and highs are energetic, enough for outdoors light listening. Aesthetically strange but with their own style, pairs fine with my X3 in Rockbox mode and New Bee tips.
The box came torn in the middle but unopened. This was bought December 31st (took 40 days to arrive), and it is possible other batches are defective as with ZS3. I suspect many people don't realise some cheaper models are out of phase.
I hope Quality Control is improved in this new KZ year full of products.


----------



## TLDRonin

DocHoliday said:


> Some folks reading this thread probably think that those of us that buy multiple sets or colors of KZ's are.....well.....touched, hehe...
> 
> Yes, some of us collect KZ's like trading cards or baseball cards but buying multipke KZ's is about more than just collecting. It's also about strategy. Follow along.
> 
> ...


I’m a little curious how much you gave up for the ZS5 v1


----------



## Makahl

Storyteller said:


> KZ ZSE bought on GearBest some time ago. Sounded terrible so I discarded them for a while as they costed very cheap. I Recently discovered the Right side was out of phase thanks to the audiocheck test and today I opened it and re-cabled it. Now they sound right, with the usual KZ sound, not bad at all for that price. Bass is prominent and highs are energetic, enough for outdoors light listening. Aesthetically strange but with their own style, pairs fine with my X3 in Rockbox mode and New Bee tips.
> The box came torn in the middle but unopened. This was bought December 31st (took 40 days to arrive), and it is possible other batches are defective as with ZS3. I suspect many people don't realise some cheaper models are out of phase.
> I hope Quality Control is improved in this new KZ year full of products.



I'm in the same boat. I got a KZ ZS3 yesterday and I figured out those things so far:
- Acoustic tuning foams out of place. (I needed to open the mesh to check and place it properly)
- Checking with a multimeter the cable is wired correctly but the internals are wired inverted, so, I also needed to check on audiocheck to figure out that problem. (that guitar test is awesome)
- The left acoustic tube is a tad crooked so I need to wear the ZS3 shallow to get full sound.
- I can't tip rolling due to the nozzle lipless, so I'll need to create one. 

I can understand perfectly fine the polarized opinions regarding some models.


----------



## anindyameister

Slater said:


> So is that good or bad?





oyobass said:


> I used Google's Translate to English option... it didn't help.





riffrafff said:


> LOL.  One shows the APT-X codec in use, the other does not.





oyobass said:


> To quote @Slater: "So is that good or bad?"



The takeaway is  that according to the hcidump linux utility, my TRN BT3 bluetooth neckband doesn't support aptX and instead only has support for basic SBC codec. And the Fiio BTR1 which prominently mentions aptX support does seem to be legit for the same test. Regardless of real world performance, aptX is atleast advertised as of being a higher quality stream, where SBC is the minimum that every bluetooth device under the sun supports. 

I was wondering how @ricemanhk managed to get aptX from the TRN bluetooth cable.


----------



## bsoplinger

I just saw the purple colored ZS10. Now I'll need to buy one of those. Every time I've seen a purple IEM that I liked and that didn't cost $250+ when I went to actually order one that color choice was unavailable.


----------



## bsoplinger

DocHoliday said:


> My second pair
> 
> and
> 
> Absolutely lov'em!…


Since I swapped the black and red plates on my 2 pairs I just had to break down and get a green pair so I can get in the festive Xmas in July spirit. Red & green here I come!


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 3, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I just saw the purple colored ZS10. Now I'll need to buy one of those. Every time I've seen a purple IEM that I liked and that didn't cost $250+ when I went to actually order one that color choice was unavailable.


The purple ZS10 on the ZS10 review page is a modification I do when creating review pages. A purple ZS10 doesn't exist.....yet.

...unless you've seen one elsewhere.


----------



## riffrafff

DocHoliday said:


> The purple ZS10 on the ZS10 review page is a modification I do when creating review pages. A purple ZS10 doesn't exist.....yet.
> 
> ...unless you've seen one elsewhere.



Aw, man.  You're harshing my mellow.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, that got my hopes up


----------



## DocHoliday

Saoshyant said:


> Well, that got my hopes up





riffrafff said:


> Aw, man.
> You're harshing my mellow.



Sorry guys, just my little trademark to alter the image when I do a review page.


----------



## maxxevv

anindyameister said:


> The takeaway is  that according to the hcidump linux utility, my TRN BT3 bluetooth neckband doesn't support aptX and instead only has support for basic SBC codec. And the Fiio BTR1 which prominently mentions aptX support does seem to be legit for the same test. Regardless of real world performance, aptX is atleast advertised as of being a higher quality stream, where SBC is the minimum that every bluetooth device under the sun supports.
> 
> I was wondering how @ricemanhk managed to get aptX from the TRN bluetooth cable.



If you looked closely on Aliexpress, there are 2 versions of the module. A cheaper version without and one a few dollars more with AptX listed as one of its key features.


----------



## anindyameister (Apr 3, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> If you looked closely on Aliexpress, there are 2 versions of the module. A cheaper version without and one a few dollars more with AptX listed as one of its key features.


That makes sense, but without any distinguishing mark other than the price, it seems like a real gamble. I've been on the lookout for a quality bluetooth cable for my KZs, ideally with 120mAh battery, aptX and AAC codec support. After the TRN disappointment I was thinking of getting a Meizu EP52, and splicing in the KZ 0.78mm plug cable.

On the surface, is it safe-ish to say that 



Spoiler: the-store-that-shall-not-be-named



****


 store might have the real deal of the TRN cable ?


----------



## riffrafff

anindyameister said:


> That makes sense, but without any distinguishing mark other than the price, it seems like a real gamble. I've been on the lookout for a quality bluetooth cable for my KZs, ideally with 120mAh battery, aptX and AAC codec support. After the TRN disappointment I was thinking of getting a Meizu EP52, and splicing in the KZ 0.78mm plug cable.
> 
> On the surface, is it safe-ish to say that **** store might have the real deal of the TRN cable ?



You're new here, right?  LOL.   

"He said a dirty word, he said a dirty word!" -- Igor (Young Frankenstein)


----------



## anindyameister

riffrafff said:


> You're new here, right?  LOL.
> 
> "He said a dirty word, he said a dirty word!" -- Igor (Young Frankenstein)


----------



## bsoplinger

anindyameister said:


> ???


You mentioned the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to. Just look through this thread and you'll see where I used that phrase. Just a few posts after is a helpful group of links explaining why.


----------



## rayliam80

bsoplinger said:


> You mentioned the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to. Just look through this thread and you'll see where I used that phrase. Just a few posts after is a helpful group of links explaining why.



I wish this could be a sticky post/notification somewhere, somehow.


----------



## anindyameister

bsoplinger said:


> You mentioned the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to. Just look through this thread and you'll see where I used that phrase. Just a few posts after is a helpful group of links explaining why.





rayliam80 said:


> I wish this could be a sticky post/notification somewhere, somehow.



I see the picture now. Perhaps @ricemanhk would be able to provide a link.


----------



## riffrafff

anindyameister said:


> I see the picture now. Perhaps @ricemanhk would be able to provide a link.



Yeah, it's kind of a rite-of-passing, 'round here...since it's not really explicitly explained.  Trial-by-fire.


----------



## maxxevv

anindyameister said:


> That makes sense, but without any distinguishing mark other than the price, it seems like a real gamble. I've been on the lookout for a quality bluetooth cable for my KZs, ideally with 120mAh battery, aptX and AAC codec support. After the TRN disappointment I was thinking of getting a Meizu EP52, and splicing in the KZ 0.78mm plug cable.
> 
> On the surface, is it safe-ish to say that
> 
> ...




The the specs are in the different listings. If AptX isn't highlighted, its safe to say that's the non-AptX version. 

The differences in pricing just makes it a little easier to spot. 

Do check the listing descripstions for explicit listing of AptX compatibility before buying though. Whichever seller you choose.


----------



## anindyameister

T


maxxevv said:


> The the specs are in the different listings. If AptX isn't highlighted, its safe to say that's the non-AptX version.
> 
> The differences in pricing just makes it a little easier to spot.
> 
> Do check the listing descripstions for explicit listing of AptX compatibility before buying though. Whichever seller you choose.


Thanks. I'll sniff around.


----------



## anindyameister

What are the chances that the visible smd components on the ZS-10 are for decoration, and not part of a passive crossover ?


----------



## durwood (Apr 3, 2018)

Yep my ZSE were miswired too. Bought in Jan. How easy was it to open it without destroying?

Also, I don't know if this was posted before but I happened across it by accident. Someone modified the ZS6 crossover as an alternative to using the 75ohm impedance adapter. Suggested an 18ohm series resistor on the BA wiring and/or wiring the BA's in series with each other. It sounds like later he made some different mods instead.

http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2944



> So, spend some time on the tuning mission...
> 
> My final take is simple:
> 
> ...


----------



## anindyameister

durwood said:


> Yep my ZSE were miswired too. Bought in Jan. How easy was it to open it without destroying?


I've destroyed one pair of ZSE, trying to open the housing to replace the cable with 3 button remote. Splicing the cables were much easier for a second pair. 
Maybe some solvent could work to weaken the glue, but the acrylic housing itself might get etched or dissolved.


----------



## ricemanhk

anindyameister said:


> I see the picture now. Perhaps @ricemanhk would be able to provide a link.



I bought mine on taobao, together with my ZS10.  There are indeed 2 versions, older module only supports SBC, the newer one supports aptX.  I don't see any physical distinguishing features between the 2, other than from the shop listing, so I would say get it from a reliable source in case there are any issues.  There's not even any mention on the box or in the manual both in English or Chinese about aptX, I've only been able to check through my Android phone that shows which codec being used.


----------



## Synthax

KZ Team, could you please tell more about?


----------



## Slater

oyobass said:


> I used Google's Translate to English option... it didn't help.





riffrafff said:


> LOL.  One shows the APT-X codec in use, the other does not.





oyobass said:


> To quote @Slater: "So is that good or bad?"



Here guys, this should help: http://shinytoylabs.com/jargon/

Be sure to choose the "audio" option.


----------



## Slater

Storyteller said:


> KZ ZSE bought on GearBest some time ago. Sounded terrible so I discarded them for a while as they costed very cheap. I Recently discovered the Right side was out of phase thanks to the audiocheck test and today I opened it and re-cabled it. Now they sound right, with the usual KZ sound, not bad at all for that price. Bass is prominent and highs are energetic, enough for outdoors light listening. Aesthetically strange but with their own style, pairs fine with my X3 in Rockbox mode and New Bee tips.
> The box came torn in the middle but unopened. This was bought December 31st (took 40 days to arrive), and it is possible other batches are defective as with ZS3. I suspect many people don't realise some cheaper models are out of phase.
> I hope Quality Control is improved in this new KZ year full of products.



Yeah, I've been meaning to check mine. I only listened to them for a short while before packing them away. Not that they were bad; I just have way too many IEMs and only 1 set of ears.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> I just saw the purple colored ZS10. Now I'll need to buy one of those. Every time I've seen a purple IEM that I liked and that didn't cost $250+ when I went to actually order one that color choice was unavailable.



I think it only appears purple because the body is blue and the crossover circuit board is red (blue+red=purple).

Unless you are talking about the ZS10 entry @DocHoliday put on HF (in anticipation of a review). Because he color-manipulated that photo (you can tell by the color of the circuit board).


----------



## Slater

anindyameister said:


> That makes sense, but without any distinguishing mark other than the price, it seems like a real gamble. I've been on the lookout for a quality bluetooth cable for my KZs, ideally with 120mAh battery, aptX and AAC codec support. After the TRN disappointment I was thinking of getting a Meizu EP52, and splicing in the KZ 0.78mm plug cable.
> 
> On the surface, is it safe-ish to say that
> 
> ...





bsoplinger said:


> You mentioned the-store-that-shall-not-be-named-nor-linked-to. Just look through this thread and you'll see where I used that phrase. Just a few posts after is a helpful group of links explaining why.





rayliam80 said:


> I wish this could be a sticky post/notification somewhere, somehow.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1978#post-14135342


----------



## CardigdanWalk

anindyameister said:


> That makes sense, but without any distinguishing mark other than the price, it seems like a real gamble. I've been on the lookout for a quality bluetooth cable for my KZs, ideally with 120mAh battery, aptX and AAC codec support. After the TRN disappointment I was thinking of getting a Meizu EP52, and splicing in the KZ 0.78mm plug cable.
> 
> On the surface, is it safe-ish to say that
> 
> ...



Doh!
I made the same mistake, ordered the cheaper one without realising that it didn’t have Apt-x 

Interesting if you look at the apt-x version listings the chip the mention using is exactly the same as the Meizu EP52 you mentioned above!

Although no mention of AAC on that!

Does anyone know of a similar form factor that does have AAC? (Either naively for KZ or that can be spliced?)

Thanks


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Here guys, this should help: http://shinytoylabs.com/jargon/
> 
> Be sure to choose the "audio" option.


"After my personal space cowboy unintentionally tainted my program, I obviously couldn't print it."

You can't make this stuff up.

Really.

It takes a specialized machine to make this stuff up.


----------



## anindyameister

CardigdanWalk said:


> Doh!
> I made the same mistake, ordered the cheaper one without realising that it didn’t have Apt-x
> 
> Interesting if you look at the apt-x version listings the chip the mention using is exactly the same as the Meizu EP52 you mentioned above!
> ...


The CSR8645 chip which is pretty common among the neckbands, including the EP52 does support AAC decoding, but doesn't seem to be enabled for most cases. I suspect it has something to do with Apple certification/licensing. My Fiio BTR1 is a  v1 piece, which lacks AAC streaming with iPhone/Mac even though the chip has support for it, only recently a v2 of the BTR1 came out that works with AAC.

One interesting piece of news is that Xiaomi has just launched a bluetooth neckband earphone in China, priced at 299 Yuan, which prominently mentions AAC support, could be legit.

http://item.mi.com/product/7840.html


----------



## CardigdanWalk

anindyameister said:


> The CSR8645 chip which is pretty common among the neckbands, including the EP52 does support AAC decoding, but doesn't seem to be enabled for most cases. I suspect it has something to do with Apple certification/licensing. My Fiio BTR1 is a  v1 piece, which lacks AAC streaming with iPhone/Mac even though the chip has support for it, only recently a v2 of the BTR1 came out that works with AAC.
> 
> One interesting piece of news is that Xiaomi has just launched a bluetooth neckband earphone in China, priced at 299 Yuan, which prominently mentions AAC support, could be legit.
> 
> http://item.mi.com/product/7840.html



Hmm, would that imply that it’s just “software” that’s stopping AAC from working? I wonder if there if it’s a way of “flashing” / “enabling” a non AAC version of a neckband with the CSR8645 chip with an AAC enabled version of the software. Either way that’s way beyond my capabilities.

Seems the “easiest” way could be to try and find the above Xiami version and re wire the ends to be 2 pin KZ compatible person

Do xiami products often go to AliExpress or would I need to look elsewhere? (Any hints if so!)


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Apr 4, 2018)

Time to grab a pair before they disappear forever like the HDS2!

Nice price too.  


Thank me later.


----------



## Bartig

Lifted Andreas said:


> Time to grab a pair before they disappear forever!
> 
> Nice price too.
> 
> Thank me later.


Why would I want these if I already have the ATE, ATE, ZS3, ZS5, ZSR and ZST?


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Bartig said:


> Why would I want these if I already have the ATE, ATE, ZS3, ZS5, ZSR and ZST?



Because they're iconic, and to my knowledge KZ hasn't made another micro IEM since.


----------



## anindyameister (Apr 4, 2018)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Hmm, would that imply that it’s just “software” that’s stopping AAC from working? I wonder if there if it’s a way of “flashing” / “enabling” a non AAC version of a neckband with the CSR8645 chip with an AAC enabled version of the software. Either way that’s way beyond my capabilities.
> 
> Seems the “easiest” way could be to try and find the above Xiami version and re wire the ends to be 2 pin KZ compatible person
> 
> Do xiami products often go to AliExpress or would I need to look elsewhere? (Any hints if so!)


I'm waiting myself to see if the Mi neckband gets trickled down to Aliexpress or not. Unsure how long it might take.

And there is apparently a CSR ROM toolkit, which is officially only available to vendors, and unofficially shared among diy community.






Notice top right corner checkboxes.

Although I doubt the microusb port on consumer electronics allows communication with the chip.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/software-tools/302515-csr8645-rom-configuration-tool.html

https://bois083.wordpress.com/2016/10/08/playing-audio-files-with-csr8645-bluetooth-chip/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/programming-off-the-shelf-csr8635-module/25/


----------



## Bartig

Lifted Andreas said:


> Because they're iconic, and to my knowledge KZ hasn't made another micro IEM since.


AudioBudget scores them a 3.5 out of 5. I don’t have to collect them merely for the collecting, I already think I have too much low costing non-used IEMs.


----------



## mbwilson111

Bartig said:


> I already think I have too much low costing non-used IEMs.



I have too many as well..mainly because of Amazon lightning deals.  They all sound nice enough but I only have one set of ears.


----------



## HungryPanda

A drawer full of iems is de rigueur  for all of us


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> A drawer full of iems is de rigueur  for all of us



The real question is: How many drawers?


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Bartig said:


> AudioBudget scores them a 3.5 out of 5. I don’t have to collect them merely for the collecting, I already think I have too much low costing non-used IEMs.



Are you really expecting a 4.5/5 out of 5 for a $10 IEM? Lol


----------



## Slater

anindyameister said:


> The CSR8645 chip which is pretty common among the neckbands, including the EP52 does support AAC decoding, but doesn't seem to be enabled for most cases. I suspect it has something to do with Apple certification/licensing. My Fiio BTR1 is a  v1 piece, which lacks AAC streaming with iPhone/Mac even though the chip has support for it, only recently a v2 of the BTR1 came out that works with AAC.
> 
> One interesting piece of news is that Xiaomi has just launched a bluetooth neckband earphone in China, priced at 299 Yuan, which prominently mentions AAC support, could be legit.
> 
> http://item.mi.com/product/7840.html



I own the Meizu EP52 (and an iPhone). I would be happy to check for you, if you let me know what I need to do.


----------



## stimuz

Lifted Andreas said:


> Are you really expecting a 4.5/5 out of 5 for a $10 IEM? Lol



CM5 imo


----------



## Lifted Andreas

stimuz said:


> CM5 imo



I have to kindly disagree, to me the TRN v20 are way closer to that rating than the CM5. At least for now, I've not had the CM5 long though.


----------



## Bartig

Lifted Andreas said:


> Are you really expecting a 4.5/5 out of 5 for a $10 IEM? Lol


Now look at the score of the KZ ATE over there.


----------



## anindyameister (Apr 4, 2018)

Slater said:


> I own the Meizu EP52 (and an iPhone). I would be happy to check for you, if you let me know what I need to do.


I'm not entirely sure on how to check that.

According to this post

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ptx-discrete-dac.850675/page-25#post-14077980

Code 2 means  AAC, code 0 means SBC, but this might need a Mac computer to verify.

Also, according to this page

https://www.bluetoothcheck.com/compatibility/apple-iphone-6s/meizu-ep52

EP52 doesn't have AAC.

Additionally Android 8 supposedly allows one to choose the codec

https://www.androidauthority.com/android-oreo-vs-android-nougat-audio-794775/


----------



## ricemanhk

I was under the impression that no apple products support aptX coz they use AAC?


----------



## anindyameister

ricemanhk said:


> I was under the impression that no apple products support aptX coz they use AAC?


That is correct, while as of now aptX is pretty common in chi-fi equipment, true AAC support is quite rare. So far only 2 products that I know of are Fiio BTR1 v2 and the newly launched Mi bluetooth neckband (unconfirmed)


----------



## Slater

Lifted Andreas said:


> I have to kindly disagree, to me the TRN v20 are way closer to that rating than the CM5. At least for now, I've not had the CM5 long though.



What are you driving the CM5 with? They need some power to sound their best (ie a good DAP with an AMP).


----------



## MyPants

Some observations on the ZSE. After months in the also-ran pile, I pulled out my ZSEs today to take on the go because it was raining and they're even more of a beater IEM than the ES3 (which I really like). Most of my original testing with the ZSE was before I got a proper DAP, and driven by my phone they sounded grainy and unnatural in the highs with loose, muddy bass (although they did have decent separation). Running off my Cayin N5ii, they sound surprisingly good. The treble cleaned up nicely and the bass tightened a good bit. When properly driven they sound surprisingly balanced and natural. Also of note, after a few songs I looked down at the Cayin and discovered that I forgot to switch off Line Out mode yesterday...  So the ZSE was running happily and at near perfect listening volume off a 2.0v line-out signal...  I'm going to spend the day with them and keep refining these impressions.


----------



## Slater

anindyameister said:


> Also, according to this page
> 
> https://www.bluetoothcheck.com/compatibility/apple-iphone-6s/meizu-ep52
> 
> EP52 doesn't have AAC.



Oh, if the EP52 doesn't have AAC, I guess there's not much use me checking if it has it.


----------



## HungryPanda

MyPants said:


> Some observations on the ZSE. After months in the also-ran pile, I pulled out my ZSEs today to take on the go because it was raining and they're even more of a beater IEM than the ES3 (which I really like). Most of my original testing with the ZSE was before I got a proper DAP, and driven by my phone they sounded grainy and unnatural in the highs with loose, muddy bass (although they did have decent separation). Running off my Cayin N5ii, they sound surprisingly good. The treble cleaned up nicely and the bass tightened a good bit. When properly driven they sound surprisingly balanced and natural. Also of note, after a few songs I looked down at the Cayin and discovered that I forgot to switch off Line Out mode yesterday...  So the ZSE was running happily and at near perfect listening volume off a 2.0v line-out signal...  I'm going to spend the day with them and keep refining these impressions.


 I find the ZSE's need a good amount of power to make them sound at their best


----------



## Slater

MyPants said:


> Some observations on the ZSE. After months in the also-ran pile, I pulled out my ZSEs today to take on the go because it was raining and they're even more of a beater IEM than the ES3 (which I really like). Most of my original testing with the ZSE was before I got a proper DAP, and driven by my phone they sounded grainy and unnatural in the highs with loose, muddy bass (although they did have decent separation). Running off my Cayin N5ii, they sound surprisingly good. The treble cleaned up nicely and the bass tightened a good bit. When properly driven they sound surprisingly balanced and natural. Also of note, after a few songs I looked down at the Cayin and discovered that I forgot to switch off Line Out mode yesterday...  So the ZSE was running happily and at near perfect listening volume off a 2.0v line-out signal...  I'm going to spend the day with them and keep refining these impressions.



Yes, I totally agree. The ZSE sound quite good when properly driven with an amp.

This really is something manufacturers need to be clearer about. So many IEMs get bad raps from people because they are not being used on the sources they were designed for.

I'm not sure what would be the optimal way to solve the issue though - it can't just be "optimal with phone" and "not optimal with phone", because some phones are quite powerful when it comes to audio, with high impedance modes, audiophile-grade DACs, more powerful amplification, etc. And many manufacturers wouldn't even be honest about it, because they would potentially lose sales if they advertised that their IEM "isn't recommended for iPhone use" just because it would sound a little grainy or muddy - the average Joe Schmoe walking around with Beats wouldn't really even know the difference.


----------



## MyPants

HungryPanda said:


> I find the ZSE's need a good amount of power to make them sound at their best



Given my experience, it certainly seems that way. As silly as it is to evaluate the performance of $5 headphones with gear this expensive, I think I'll hook them up to the Asgard 2 or the iCAN SE tonight and see just how far they scale.


----------



## Slater (Apr 4, 2018)

MyPants said:


> Given my experience, it certainly seems that way. As silly as it is to evaluate the performance of $5 headphones with gear this expensive, I think I'll hook them up to the Asgard 2 or the iCAN SE tonight and see just how far they scale.



Crank up the juice man (or as M/A/R/R/S says "Pump Up The Volume").

I'm sure they'll at least scale to this level LOL:


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Apr 4, 2018)

Slater said:


> What are you driving the CM5 with? They need some power to sound their best (ie a good DAP with an AMP).



Tried with everything pretty much, FiiO Q1ii, OnePlus X, my laptop. Power isn't an issue here.


----------



## MyPants (Apr 4, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yes, I totally agree. The ZSE sound quite good when properly driven with an amp.
> 
> This really is something manufacturers need to be clearer about. So many IEMs get bad raps from people because they are not being used on the sources they were designed for.
> 
> I'm not sure what would be the optimal way to solve the issue though - it can't just be "optimal with phone" and "not optimal with phone", because some phones are quite powerful when it comes to audio, with high impedance modes, audiophile-grade DACs, more powerful amplification, etc. And many manufacturers wouldn't even be honest about it, because they would potentially lose sales if they advertised that their IEM "isn't recommended for iPhone use" just because it would sound a little grainy or muddy - the average Joe Schmoe walking around with Beats wouldn't really even know the difference.



I've noticed this is a big issue with amateur headphone reviews in general. There are guys in the LCD-2 thread who SWEAR that LCD-2s have no bass, but they're driving the cans with an amp that can only do 100mw-ish into 32ohms... I think the issue is that at some point, this hobby requires a little understanding of electrical engineering (understanding impedance matching/damping factor, how output caps of varying sizes can influence a headphone relative to each other and vs. dc-coupled output, etc.) All things which are difficult to convey in marketing or on packaging, and people really don't seem to care that much about ANYTHING let alone audio quality.


----------



## Slater

Lifted Andreas said:


> Tried with everything pretty much, FiiO Q1ii, OnePlus X, my laptop. Power isn't an issue here.



They are quite tip dependant as well. I can't remember if you're using wide bore Whirlwinds or Auvio tips. But obviously tip rolling might change your mind (which you may already have done).

Or it could just be they just don't sound good to your ears. Nothing wrong with that. But there sure are heaps of people that love the CM5, so if you want to sell them I'm sure you'll have no issues whatsoever.


----------



## Pruikki

Helloo, im back , *HELP, KZ ZSR is weird!*

It *seem* it* is out of phase?* or something, its *not centered* anymore,  sound comes *quieter/differen*t from *the left side?*

what may be the problem? KZ quality controll? by the way Gearbest refunded me* 3,80*€ for *15,50*€ that i pad for ZSR...oh well.*(they offered for 10€ ship another one,but i don wanna another crappy quality zsr....)
*
Whats next ZS10 perhaps? Please advice? (_take apart and fix something?_)

Thank you!


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> They are quite tip dependant as well. I can't remember if you're using wide bore Whirlwinds or Auvio tips. But obviously tip rolling might change your mind (which you may already have done).
> 
> Or it could just be they just don't sound good to your ears. Nothing wrong with that. But there sure are heaps of people that love the CM5, so if you want to sell them I'm sure you'll have no issues whatsoever.



Auvio's work well with 90% of my iem's and Starlines pretty much cover the rest, my latest acquisition and I must say their players do sound sweet but as many have said the filing storage attributes leave something to be desired! Who knew as a 61 year old man I'd like the boy band Super Jr Good thing since I now have all their signatures on my player, still not quite as cool as my 30GB Classic U2 Pod


----------



## Slater

Pruikki said:


> Helloo, im back , *HELP, KZ ZSR is weird!*
> 
> It *seem* it* is out of phase?* or something, its *not centered* anymore,  sound comes *quieter/differen*t from *the left side?*
> 
> ...



Try turning ONE of the cables the opposite way, and retest the phase tests on audiocheck.net.


----------



## Storyteller

Maybe we didn't pay proper attention to these strange ZSE things. After the re-wiring I'm listening to them again and comparing to my Swing IE800 and ZS3 (shiny one with Slater mod and news cables), my two previous bassy and outdoors IEMs. The thing is, I think the ZSE sounds a little bit better... but I'm still listening and trying different things. I suspect the price, design and maybe bad QC made many of us forget about them.
Using New Bee tips, Fiio X1 and Xduoo X3 in Rockbox mode, and yes, they seem to need more juice than the other cheaper KZ models, the drivers are probably wired in parallel.





About the re-wiring in the Out of Phase models (remember only to re-wire one side, no matter which one):
1. use a thin knife or cutter along the middle of the plastic capsule with care. Little by little it's going to split the two halves, but there is a little notch near the nozzle holding it together that it's most probably going to crack before everything comes out. (You can see where the notch is in the picture, in the L side one below, the hole in the clear plastic where both halves meet).
2. the black rubber piece holding the cable and the cable itself comes out easily so you can separate them from the two-driver half and identify the two little colored cables.
3. Use the solderer to free the little cables and re-solder them in the reverse order.
4. Get back the cable, rubber piece and tuck everything in as before. Apply some glue to the plastic halves. The notch that was holding it together is probably broken, and the general pressure is gone, but with some glue it appears to hold fine.


----------



## Slater

30,000 posts
3.7 million views
2000 pages

That's just mind boggling


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Auvio's work well with 90% of my iem's and Starlines pretty much cover the rest, my latest acquisition and I must say their players do sound sweet but as many have said the filing storage attributes leave something to be desired! Who knew as a 61 year old man I'd like the boy band Super Jr Good thing since I now have all their signatures on my player, still not quite as cool as my 30GB Classic U2 Pod



Hey, I have the U2 iPod too!

Did a 128GB SSD upgrade. Debating whether to do the capacitor mod...I don't use it much though, as my latest car has USB port that can play flac files on a super mini USB drive & Apple CarPlay (and for DAP use I use my Rockbox xduoo X3).


----------



## CoiL (Apr 4, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I missed out on buying a backup pair of ZS5(i) but several weeks ago I traded a very popular and very good IEM to secure a backup ZS5(i). I now own two pair of the ZS5(i).


Lucky You! At beginning of my IT01 "burn-in" I even though about changing deal for ZS5v1 <> IT01 
But not anymore.
I still wish another ZS5v1 but noone selling in EU or willing to send it to EU ;(

PS! Please change showcase item pics back to normal. They are somewhat misguiding


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Slater said:


> They are quite tip dependant as well. I can't remember if you're using wide bore Whirlwinds or Auvio tips. But obviously tip rolling might change your mind (which you may already have done).
> 
> Or it could just be they just don't sound good to your ears. Nothing wrong with that. But there sure are heaps of people that love the CM5, so if you want to sell them I'm sure you'll have no issues whatsoever.



Yeah I find the wide bores actually make them sound worse, the best sound I've gotten out of them so far is by using Sony hybrids. I've ordered 30 pairs of KZ Starlines, but it will take a while for them to be delivered  

The CM5 have a weird peak up in the higher frequencies for me, I don't know what it is.

Will see what happens after like 50 hours of burn in, if they don't change/improve I'll probably sell them on.


----------



## MyPants

Slater said:


> 30,000 posts
> 3.7 million views
> 2000 pages
> 
> That's just mind boggling



What's even crazier is that we were only at like pg.1,300 in November when all the 11/11 sales were going on. This has to be one of the most active threads on the site.


----------



## Strat Rider

rayliam80 said:


> I wish this could be a sticky post/notification somewhere, somehow.



The Cynical me, (apparently the only me) tends to think even if it was a side bar on every page, the unmentionable would still come up at least weekly


----------



## phower (Apr 4, 2018)

anindyameister said:


> That is correct, while as of now aptX is pretty common in chi-fi equipment, true AAC support is quite rare. So far only 2 products that I know of are Fiio BTR1 v2 and the newly launched Mi bluetooth neckband (unconfirmed)


Hmm. No. Most of Sony Bluetooth headphones and their car stereos support AAC over BT
One more misunderstanding I find people have is that Apple is the license holder of AAC. It is actually the same licensing body that invented MP3.


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Lucky You! At beginning of my IT01 "burn-in" I even though about changing deal for ZS5v1 <> IT01
> But not anymore.
> I still wish another ZS5v1 but noone selling in EU or willing to send it to EU ;(
> 
> PS! Please change showcase item pics back to normal. They are somewhat misguiding



I second that Lucky You and it was an amicable trade Still have my gray 5v1 and will be holding onto this pair, backups are important as I just re-ordered a new Gray Benjie S5 and ZS6's in red since I gave my old ones to a close friend back in Texas a few weeks back.

Glad these Blue Babies have a new (and loving) home



 

Can't wait to get these back in the house and rotation


 

@Slater I've not done any Mod's to my U2 Pod, keep it pristine in my Yo-Tank


----------



## Ynot1

phower said:


> Hmm. No. Most of Sony Bluetooth headphones and their car stereos support AAC over BT
> One more misunderstanding I find people have is that Apple is the license holder of AAC. It is actually the same licensing body that invented MP3.



Apple Audio Codec?


----------



## Strat Rider

With the discussion lately regarding Bluetooth, I wanted to share what I use for my work and home when I use hard wired phones.

http://www.avantree.com/category-bl...low-latency-headset-avantree-clipper-pro.html

 I also use a Meeaudio bluetooth aptx transmitter for tv, pc or...(hotel) that doesn't have native bluetooth.

 http://www.meeaudio.com/Connect/


The reason I mention this all leads to my question: In your experience, what is the best Kz for home theatre?


----------



## C2thew (Apr 4, 2018)

Goodness gracious....  I started with a KZ ZS3 for my running headphones, then bought a ZS6 to see how it stacked up to my Ultimate ears triple fi 10 (smoked them in terms of clarity/treble after modding the headphones with the gauze over the BA drivers), and now I have a pair of EDR1s and some ZS10's (one is being gifted for my brother) with the TRN bluetooth APT-X bluetooth cable on the way.

Darn it.  gotta stop reading this thread.  What's ironic is that the TRN bluetooth cable is sold with other brands like AUKEY however it doesn't have the necessary 2 pin cable connector so in reality we're paying a premium for the 2 pin KZ variant.

and so the waiting game continues.

side note: how do you add a signature to your posts?  I can't seem to find it in the option settings.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> Goodness gracious....  I started with a KZ ZS3 for my running headphones, then bought a ZS6 to see how it stacked up to my Ultimate ears triple fi 10 (smoked them in terms of clarity/treble after modding the headphones with the gauze over the BA drivers), and now I have a pair of EDR1s and some ZS10's (one is being gifted for my brother) with the TRN bluetooth cable on the way.
> 
> Darn it.  gotta stop reading this thread.  What's ironic is that the TRN bluetooth cable is sold with other brands like AUKEY however it doesn't have the necessary 2 pin cable connector so in reality we're paying a premium for the 2 pin KZ variant.
> 
> ...



Hover your mouse over your name at the very top right side of the screen, and a little menu will pop up. Signature is the 2nd thing down on the left hand side of the list.


----------



## bsoplinger

Ynot1 said:


> Apple Audio Codec?


Actually its Advanced Audio Codec. Its just that Apple championed it.


----------



## bsoplinger

Lifted Andreas said:


> Time to grab a pair before they disappear forever like the HDS2!
> 
> Nice price too. …
> 
> Thank me later.


If that's a suggestion to get them from the KZ Official Store then its too late. I ordered a pair last week only to be told that they didn't have any and would I accept an ATE (or some model I wasn't interested in) instead. When I replied no that I really wanted the HDS3 and nothing else they then asked if it would be OK for them to send my order minus the HDS3 and dispute it once it arrived instead of just refunding me the cost of the HDS3 and sending the package. I will never understand the way they do business.


----------



## bsoplinger

Just noticed from the Gearbest deals thread… Gearbest is taking pre-orders for a May 3rd shipping date of all 3 colors for the ZS10 at I think $48. I'm not very interested so didn't pay close attention.


----------



## Otto Motor

bsoplinger said:


> Just noticed from the Gearbest deals thread… Gearbest is taking pre-orders for a May 3rd shipping date of all 3 colors for the ZS10 at I think $48. I'm not very interested so didn't pay close attention.


Just saw that, too.


----------



## Otto Motor

Bartig said:


> Why would I want these if I already have the ATE, ATE, ZS3, ZS5, ZSR and ZST?


Because they are microdriver earphones...different design, different fit, different sound...and they are great. Also get the EDR1 and EDR2...and the whole bundle costs you less than the ZST.


----------



## mattcooperkay (Apr 4, 2018)

Just got my ZS6 - ordered the ZS10 but the 6's piqued my interest, so went for both.

They're *beautiful. 
*
Listening to the E.T. soundtrack on these and I'm covered in goosebumps with just how good it sounds.

Didn't think I'd need it based on others experiences, but I can't seem to shift my treble addiction (treble dial to 100%).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Out of interest, what are peoples preferred tips for KZ's? Managed to squeeze a pair of T400's on and they've made a world of difference, any other recommendations?


----------



## Bartig

I just love these. Perfect for the ZSR, brought out some of the bass in the ZS5 as well.



mattcooperkay said:


> Just got my ZS6 - ordered the ZS10 but the 6's piqued my interest, so went for both.
> 
> They're *beautiful.
> *
> ...


----------



## TLDRonin

Lifted Andreas said:


> Are you really expecting a 4.5/5 out of 5 for a $10 IEM? Lol


I mean, the rock zircons are apparently a 5/5 on audio budget so I don't see why not


----------



## deaftpunk

TLDRonin said:


> I mean, the rock zircons are apparently a 5/5 on audio budget so I don't see why not


Uh, their place is symbolic in the site right now, the Zircons are the REASON why that site started, it's how the owner found out about chi-fi, don't compare apples to oranges, there's other cheap IEMs and more expensive IEMs in the 5/5 range, you have to take price/performance in account too to understand their place there


----------



## bhazard

Until an aptx HD or LDAC (wishful thinking) affordable bluetooth cable is out, you really sacrifice a lot in sound quality using one. Still, I'd rather use a ZSR on bluetooth over any bluetooth specific earphone that's out.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

anindyameister said:


> I'm waiting myself to see if the Mi neckband gets trickled down to Aliexpress or not. Unsure how long it might take.
> 
> And there is apparently a CSR ROM toolkit, which is officially only available to vendors, and unofficially shared among diy community.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing the info!

If I’ve understood it all correctly:

 it seems like some of the options are software locked and tied to each chip ID, so even if you enable them / or find an example of a rom where it is enabled from a different Bluetooth transmitter it might not work. (Think some sort of checksum using the chip ID and the option settings)

Some people say they have had success by saving the config file and applying outside of the software I think, or splicing together parts of their working config file and the settings they want.

Either way, I fudged up and ordered the cheaper TRN Bluetooth neckband without the correct chip so won’t be able to even start investigating 

Think the best bet is still that Mi one, and then doing some wire surgery to make it KZ compatible. 

Or failing that, wait until Bluetooth 5.0 comes around!


----------



## TLDRonin

deaftpunk said:


> Uh, their place is symbolic in the site right now, the Zircons are the REASON why that site started, it's how the owner found out about chi-fi, don't compare apples to oranges, there's other cheap IEMs and more expensive IEMs in the 5/5 range, you have to take price/performance in account too to understand their place there


Okay, then KZ ATE and ZSE


I'm not comparing apples to oranges; you implied a $10 IEM shouldn't be expected to get a 4.5/5 rating on the site, and I'm giving examples on how they can


----------



## Makahl

Some new pics:


Spoiler


























I think that angle shows better the BA's placement (not mine). I can't see 100% but I think this nozzle is lipless too. Damn.


----------



## TLDRonin

Makahl said:


> Some new pics:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Wait, what model is shown in the first 2 pics?


----------



## Makahl

TLDRonin said:


> Wait, what model is shown in the first 2 pics?



I'd guess a ZS6 with better ergonomics but I'm not sure if they'll keep the same drivers.


----------



## anindyameister

TLDRonin said:


> Wait, what model is shown in the first 2 pics?





Makahl said:


> I'd guess a ZS6 with better ergonomics but I'm not sure if they'll keep the same drivers.



Upcoming YZ35 I believe.

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/

RIP my bank balance.


----------



## Bartig

anindyameister said:


> Upcoming YZ35 I believe.
> 
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/
> 
> RIP my bank balance.


Those look stunning!


----------



## TLDRonin

Glad to see them not piggybacking off the Campfire design again.


I'm a sucker for matte black finishes, which it looks to have in the picture....


----------



## oyobass

Slater said:


> Crank up the juice man (or as M/A/R/R/S says "Pump Up The Volume").
> 
> I'm sure they'll at least scale to this level LOL:


I never get tired of that shot...


----------



## WildSeven

Looking at some of the renders from the KZ YZ39, it looks like they have the same housing and driver setup as the KZ ZS10.


----------



## Slater (Apr 4, 2018)

Makahl said:


>



How interesting (not the IEM, but the color).

The more time goes on, the more I've come to believe this hunch - that I believe KZ closely watches/reads this KZ thread. There are too many things that appear more than mere coincidence; this is one of them. Many of us were buying different colors of ZS6 bodies so we could swap around the faceplates. We were posting photos, talking about it, etc. Now KZ all of the sudden seems to be planning on offering them this way.

The nozzle lip on the newest ZS6s is another example of this. We've been complaining about that since the ZS5. So when we say 'KZ listens to its customers', I think a large portion of that listening is going on right here in this thread.

Another coincidence just happened today. I received yet another (backup) pair of EDR1 because I have been worried they are all going to be gone soon (plus I got them for $1, and was planning on transplanting the drivers into something else). Low and behold, it came in one of the *new white boxes!* Every one I've received up to this point has been in the ancient plain black cardboard box. Guys, the EDR1 hasn't been manufactured in a long time; it's multiple generations old. A lot of us have been recommending it and recommending it, every chance we get, and now they are making it again. Coincidence? I doubt it.

While I'm on the topic of the EDR1, please note that the "new" one in the white box no longer has the longer body vs the EDR2. The "new" EDR1 is the exact same size as the EDR2 (ie about 3-4mm shorter overall). The vent hole has moved to the same spot as the EDR2 as well. Rest assured though, the EDR1 sound has *not changed* in any perceptable way (verified with both my ears and with FR measurement). So this is one case where KZ did the smart/right thing - they did NOT change the sound of a much-loved IEM, even though it is technically a "new" version (only the shell has changed slightly).


----------



## oyobass

Lifted Andreas said:


> Yeah I find the wide bores actually make them sound worse, the best sound I've gotten out of them so far is by using Sony hybrids. I've ordered 30 pairs of KZ Starlines, but it will take a while for them to be delivered
> 
> The CM5 have a weird peak up in the higher frequencies for me, I don't know what it is.
> 
> Will see what happens after like 50 hours of burn in, if they don't change/improve I'll probably sell them on.


The CM5 are still some of my favorites at the moment, but that may change over time, (or when I finally order the ZS10). I find them inspiring and musical.

Gotta love the IEM addiction and the way we all hear things differently.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> So when we say 'KZ listens to its customers', I think a large portion of that listening is going on right here in this thread.



Remember when I posted about wanting to have a purple translucent one and I even included photos of that color as well as amber?   hmmmm.... now it seems my purple one is being made for me... I think they should just send it to me!  The KZ YZ40

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1802#post-13983806


----------



## Storyteller

The red/black colour style is probably too much of a coincidence. I agree they probably check this thread, but I wonder if the general raise in prices in KZ models in GearBest in this 2018 has something to do with that. Even the discount codes in the GearBest Discounts thread are not in the same range price offered last year. Maybe the KZ brand popularity in Head-Fi has raised prices, decreased QC and changed the company with that ambitious 2018 line-up. I really hope not, but that would be the natural step of a company growing in size.


----------



## TLDRonin (Apr 4, 2018)

Hey KZ, I would love to be able to try the old ZS5 



WildSeven said:


> Looking at some of the renders from the KZ YZ39, it looks like they have the same housing and driver setup as the KZ ZS10.


Aren't they the same thing? I'm feel like the "YZxx" is just the unofficial name/model


----------



## anindyameister

mbwilson111 said:


> Remember when I posted about wanting to have a purple translucent one and I even included photos of that color as well as amber?   hmmmm.... now it seems my purple one is being made for me... I think they should just send it to me!  The KZ YZ40
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1802#post-13983806


Off topic, but if you just want purple housing,

https://penonaudio.com/tfz-exclusive-1.html
https://penonaudio.com/tfz-series-1s.html
https://penonaudio.com/tfz-series-3s-special-edition.html
https://penonaudio.com/tfz-series-1s-my-love-special-ver..html


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Apr 4, 2018)

anindyameister said:


> I'm waiting myself to see if the Mi neckband gets trickled down to Aliexpress or not. Unsure how long it might take.



First sign of the Mi band on AliExpress!
http://s.aliexpress.com/zaiYzQjY

A bit more expensive than I thought it will be alas, seems to be coming in at a $10 Premium over the 299 wuan price, but then I suppose that does include shipping halfway across the world.

Before I make the leap, if I did want to convert to KZ, can I check, it is “just” a case of snipping off the ends off this, and a KZ cable and then re-wiring then it’s together? Or is there anywhere on AliExpress that sells the KZ 2 pin end connectors? (I have seen a nice silver set out there, which would go nice with the grey mi band!)


----------



## anindyameister (Apr 4, 2018)

CardigdanWalk said:


> First sign of the Mi band on AliExpress!
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zaiYzQjY
> 
> A bit more expensive than I thought it will be alas, seems to be coming in at a $10 Premium over the 299 wuan price, but then I suppose that does include shipping halfway across the world.
> ...


Re-wiring is pretty much it overall. To be specific: cut off both the donor and receiver cable, carefully peel the outer sheath from both cable ends, if the enamelled wire strands have a fibre reinforcement, try to unravel the strands and cut off the fibre, use a 60w soldering iron to tin the wire ends, using rosin flux paste. 60w should be hot enough to burn off the enamel coating, and flux will keep the copper clean. Once you have both the receiver and donor ends tinned, slide on a heat-shrink tube, fuse the donor and receiver wires with just a tiny bit of solder, it should be easy cause of the pre-tinned ends. Watch for, and match the red/copper and green/copper color coding. Once the ends are fused with solder, insulate one wire with clear tape, slide down the heat shrink sleeve over the joint, use a hair dryer to shrink it down.


This is one of my experiments





Edit: before shrinking down the heat shrink sleeve, check polarity at
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

Edit 2: The xiaomi pistons were not half bad. Do spend some time with the stock drivers before performing surgery.

Edit 3: If the cable is long enough, soldering in a 0.78mm connector plug directly onto the neckband cable would be easier. Lots of listings on Aliexpress for the 0.78mm male connector with screw-on housing.


----------



## Slater (Apr 4, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Hey KZ, I would love to be able to try the old ZS5



Yes! A reissue of the ZS5 v1 would sell like hotcakes!



TLDRonin said:


> Aren't they the same thing?



Yes.



TLDRonin said:


> I'm feel like the "YZxx" is just the unofficial name/model



And yes.

haha


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> How interesting (not the IEM, but the color).
> 
> The more time goes on, the more I've come to believe this hunch - that I believe KZ closely watches/reads this KZ thread.



They would be silly not to follow this thread. It should be part of their R&D. What is new on the EDR1's housings? I am also awaiting one.


----------



## mbwilson111

anindyameister said:


> Off topic, but if you just want purple housing,
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/tfz-exclusive-1.html
> https://penonaudio.com/tfz-series-1s.html
> ...



I love the look,of that first one.  I wonder if it is good.


----------



## anindyameister

mbwilson111 said:


> I love the look,of that first one.  I wonder if it is good.



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tfz-exclusive-1.22502/reviews


----------



## Slater (Apr 4, 2018)

anindyameister said:


> Re-wiring is pretty much it overall. To be specific: cut off both the donor and receiver cable, carefully peel the outer sheath from both cable ends, if the enamelled wire strands have a fibre reinforcement, try to unravel the strands and cut off the fibre, use a 60w soldering iron to tin the wire ends, using rosin flux paste. 60w should be hot enough to burn off the enamel coating, and flux will keep the copper clean. Once you have both the receiver and donor ends tinned, slide on a heat-shrink tube, fuse the donor and receiver wires with just a tiny bit of solder, it should be easy cause of the pre-tinned ends. Watch for, and match the red/copper and green/copper color coding. Once the ends are fused with solder, insulate one wire with clear tape, slide down the heat shrink sleeve over the joint, use a hair dryer to shrink it down.
> 
> 
> This is one of my experiments



Nice experiment there 

I've tried every method imaginable for enameled wire. The method which I've found works best is to separate the colored wires and get any kevlar/nylon strands out of the way. Then hit it with a lighter to burn off the enamel, blowing it out before it burns down too low. Then take a regular uncoated aspirin tablet (old school aspirin; not Tylonol or Advil). Set the end of the wire on the aspirin tablet, and heat it (right on the aspirin tablet) with the soldering iron for 2-4 seconds. The arpirin will melt in that spot and turn into a brown liquid. Do it in a well ventilated areas (or use a vapor hood), because the vapors that come off the aspirin tablet will make you choke. Anyways, the aspirin cleans the end if the wire and you will be able to tin the wire easily. You can save the aspirin tablets and reuse them dozens of times (the brown burnt part is perfectly fine, because when it cools it recrystalizes). I just keep them in my soldering toolbox in an empty pill bottle for reuse later.

I assume the aspirin is acting like the "acid core" in flux core wire, cleaning the oxidation and carbon deposits off. Anyways, I've been doing it this way for years and it works awesome. I'll never go back to all of the other methods I used to use.

In high volume factories they just dip it in solder pots and knock it all out in 1 step, but that's totally overkill at the volume I solder at.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 4, 2018)

anindyameister said:


> Re-wiring is pretty much it overall. To be specific: cut off both the donor and receiver cable, carefully peel the outer sheath from both cable ends*, if the enamelled wire strands have a fibre reinforcement, try to unravel the strands and cut off the fibre, use a 60w soldering iron to tin the wire ends, using rosin flux paste. 60w should be hot enough to burn off the enamel coating, and flux will keep the copper clean. *Once you have both the receiver and donor ends tinned, slide on a heat-shrink tube, fuse the donor and receiver wires with just a tiny bit of solder, it should be easy cause of the pre-tinned ends. Watch for, and match the red/copper and green/copper color coding. Once the ends are fused with solder, insulate one wire with clear tape, slide down the heat shrink sleeve over the joint, use a hair dryer to shrink it down.
> 
> 
> This is one of my experiments
> ...



I wish I could've known that tip before. Trying to tin wires with this enamel layer is such a frustrating experience. Although you can also use a trick with regular aspirin pill. Put the end of the wire on the pill, and heat it up with the soldering iron with some solder on the tip and it's ready to solder/tinning. (But beware, doing that the pill will produce fumes which are quite unpleasant, probably toxic. So doing this, try to use a mask, hold your breath, or do this outside.)

Edit: Outplayed by @Slater


----------



## Saoshyant

My purple IEM is the Rose Pudding. Was surprised AliExpress upheld the delivery time guarantee and got it for free.  Lovely bass head IEM.


----------



## mbwilson111

anindyameister said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tfz-exclusive-1.22502/reviews



Sounds like it could be too bright for me.  Too expensive to just take a chance.  I suspect the KZ will be cheaper.


----------



## anindyameister (Apr 4, 2018)

Slater said:


> Nice experiment there
> 
> I've tried every method imaginable for enameled wire. The method which I've found works best is to separate the colored wires and get any kevlar/nylon strands out of the way. Then hit it with a lighter to burn off the enamel, blowing it out before it burns down too low. Then take a regular uncoated aspirin tablet (old school aspirin; not Tylonol or Advil). Set the end of the wire on the aspirin tablet, and heat it with the soldering iron for 2-4 seconds. The arpirin will melt slightly and turn brown. Do it in a well ventilated areas (or use a vapor hood), because the vapors that come off the aspirin tablet will make you choke. Anyways, the aspirin cleans the end if the wire and you will be able to tin the wire easily. You can save the aspirin tablets and reuse them dozens of times (the brown burnt part is perfectly fine). I just keep them in my soldering toolbox in an empty pill bottle for reuse later.
> 
> ...



Oh man !! Lemme tell you my full story. 2 years ago I first tried adding a 3 button remote cable to my Vsonic VDS1, tried the lighter method to burn off the enamel, and wiping with wet paper towel. At the time I had a 35 watt soldering iron, with which I struggled for 30 mins to get the wire ends tinned. After hours of effort, a circuit was somehow established, and I just wanted it finished, so I glued back the housing and started using the earphone. As you can guess, within 2 days, the left driver went silent, most likely cause of bad solder joint. I spent another couple hours trying to un-glue the housing and then to get the solder to stick. At that point I was pretty much trying to get the wire buried under a heap of molten solder on the driver solder pad. And as luck would have it, the prolonged exposure to heat burned the voice coil and made the tiny pcb come  right off the driver.

Since then I have wasted a KZ ZSE, a Soundmagic E10, a Panasonic HJE120, and a couple more. Ultimately I stopped trying and started buying pre-tinned DIY wires  from Aliexpress.

Only recently I came to know of the aspirin method from a comment in this article

https://hackaday.com/2009/05/24/soldering-headphone-wire/

That very day I went out and bought a whole strip of aspirin, and tried the molten aspirin method. It worked ! and I couldn't be happier. But unfortunately, that method ate away at my 35watt soldering iron tip very quickly for some reason. Then I decided trying a hotter soldering iron as most of the comments in the above article were saying the enamel just burns off naturally. That's how I got my 60w iron, exclusively used for tinning enamelled wires of headphones and earphones.


----------



## anindyameister

mbwilson111 said:


> Sounds like it could be too bright for me.  Too expensive to just take a chance.  I suspect the KZ will be cheaper.


TFZ indeed isn't really a budget option. I'd say waiting for KZ to release a purple one should be good. 

Additionally, in this article
http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ann...-yz46-kz-yz41-kz-yz40-kz-yz39-kz-yz35-kzyz34/
near the bottom it says KZ might start taking customized orders.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> They would be silly not to follow this thread. It should be part of their R&D. What is new on the EDR1's housings? I am also awaiting one.



From above: _The "new" EDR1 is the exact same size as the EDR*2* (ie about 3-4mm shorter overall). The vent hole has moved to the same spot as the EDR*2* as well. _


----------



## Slater

anindyameister said:


> ...I struggled for 30 mins to get the wire ends tinned...



Yup, I fought that struggle for years. Many bad solder joints, ruined wires, etc.

Aspirin - good for your heart and your soldering projects!


----------



## riffrafff

Slater said:


> While I'm on the topic of the EDR1, please note that the "new" one in the white box no longer has the longer body vs the EDR2.



What box was before the white?  I just received a pair in a black box, with reflective purple printing (off ebay).


----------



## Storyteller

Those are the 4 different boxes I have received in the past couple of years from KZ. The ones KZ I have:

Original ATE & ED9 in Shield plastic box.
ZST/ATR/ZS3 in black transparent screen box.
ATE-S in carboard box with purple printing.
ZSE in white box.

The white one is the last KZ packaging from January 2018 and the shield plastic case is from mid 2016. The other two are in the middle, between last quarter 2016 and middle 2017. Probably there are more boxes but these are the 4 different packaging styles I have.


----------



## bsoplinger

I've generally gotten the white box. I received a few with the plastic shield style box. I know I got one with that painful to my eyes electric metallic blue print on the matt black box. I got 2 non KZ in boxes just like the black one, clear plastic cover, black plastic insert holding the bodies, etc. 

I remember tossing the shield boxes after looking at them and thinking that they would be handy if they didn't have those pillars that held the spare ear tips and the cord was wrapped around. But after I'd tossed mine I remember seeing someone making the comment that they used their shield box to hold a cheap player and earphones. Was there a way to remove the pillars and end up with a useful small box that I missed?


----------



## archy121

DocHoliday said:


> ...
> HDS2




Yamaha EPH100 reborn ?


----------



## ricemanhk

CardigdanWalk said:


> First sign of the Mi band on AliExpress!
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zaiYzQjY
> 
> A bit more expensive than I thought it will be alas, seems to be coming in at a $10 Premium over the 299 wuan price, but then I suppose that does include shipping halfway across the world.
> ...



just get the trn bt cable with aptx, unless you specifically need AAC


----------



## nkramer

tinning enameled wire.... easiest way i've figured to tin enameled wire is to put the strand against the iron tip & tin the tip of the iron (use a decent amount of solder, i'm only using a old generic radio shack 30w iron)


----------



## Storyteller

bsoplinger said:


> I remember tossing the shield boxes after looking at them and thinking that they would be handy if they didn't have those pillars that held the spare ear tips and the cord was wrapped around. But after I'd tossed mine I remember seeing someone making the comment that they used their shield box to hold a cheap player and earphones. Was there a way to remove the pillars and end up with a useful small box that I missed?



I guess the 3 pillars can be broken/cut with some care, it's plastic after all. The only problem I see is the box not closing firmly. It's not tight enough when closed, so stuff inside could come out easily.


----------



## Slater

riffrafff said:


> What box was before the white?  I just received a pair in a black box, with reflective purple printing (off ebay).



You are describing the old (original) box. KZs came in those boxes many years ago. Before the plastic "shield" boxes, before the cardboard boxes with windows, before the new white boxes.

So you have the original EDR1.


----------



## ShakyJake

durwood said:


> Yep my ZSE were miswired too. Bought in Jan. How easy was it to open it without destroying?
> 
> Also, I don't know if this was posted before but I happened across it by accident. Someone modified the ZS6 crossover as an alternative to using the 75ohm impedance adapter. Suggested an 18ohm series resistor on the BA wiring and/or wiring the BA's in series with each other. It sounds like later he made some different mods instead.
> 
> http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2944



That article had some interesting quotes:

'The chinese manufacturer of the IEM's failed to account that the BA drivers they use are designed to be linked to the ear by a tube and require acoustic resistive termination to offer a flat response. By pointing them directly into the ear, by pointing two of them directly into the ear, they create what some have called "treble knifes". '​
From the initial description of the ZS10 it sounds like KZ has included at least the tube from the 4 BAs on that model.

'After some pen-damping on the existing measured curves scraped from Headfi to correct out the IEC711 coupler resonance, I reverse-engineering the actual "crossover" circuit and resulting likely slopes/responses etc. based on the datasheet for the BA Drivers from Knowles - I suspect at the price these IEM sell the actual BA drivers are French Croatian (Fa Ke) rather than Knowles USA but they measure like misapplied originals would, or close enough to not matter. 

There is an appx. 7.5 Ohm series resistor on the 6.4mm "midrange" Driver, no crossover whatsoever on the 10mm "Woofer" and a appx. 1uF series capacitor for the dual BA "Tweeter" which is paralleled. One possible trick would be to reconnect the BA drivers in series, instead of parallel, this will drop SPL by 6dB and increase impedance four fold, but it looked incredibly fiddly to me. I might try this on a new pair, using someone else's pairs of hands to solder.

After comparing the curves to the latest Olive/Welti target for headphones I decided to add an 18 Ohm resistor in series with the 1uF capacitor which constitutes the "crossover" of the high frequency drivers. This produces a similar attenuation of the excessive treble (around 7dB vs. 5dB) as the 75 Ohm resistor without killing efficiency and it makes the IEM a more gentle load for sources to boot (the impedance dip at high frequencies is substantially filled in). '​I don't think I have the soldering skills (nor do I have two 18 ohm resistors  to do this mod, but it sounds tempting. Although I am not bothered as much as most folks here by the "treble knives" of my ZS6s.


----------



## HiFiChris

Now GearBest lists the ZS10 for pre-order ($46) as well: https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1707254.html


----------



## TLDRonin

Have the ZS10s from aliexpress stores started shipping yet?


Store who must not be named have not shipped the black ones yet


----------



## nkramer

ok. i have a question, if anybody has experience switching/adding a driver (parallel vs. series)
- because changing the ohm (load) can effect the sound, what's the general change to the sound signature switching from parallel to series or vice versa?
- i know ohm's law, just curious what the general consensus is on how that relates to typical sound signature changes as the load changes (other than the obvious loudness change)

.....hmm


----------



## Bartig

TLDRonin said:


> Have the ZS10s from aliexpress stores started shipping yet?
> 
> 
> Store who must not be named have not shipped the black ones yet


Mine was shipped. Supposed to be here tomorrow. Can’t really believe it.


----------



## CoiL

TLDRonin said:


> Hey KZ, I would love to be able to try the old ZS5


KZ YOU HEAR THIS?!? ME TOO!!!


Slater said:


> Yes! A reissue of the ZS5 v1 would sell like hotcakes!


I want 1 more piece of that cake! ;P


----------



## themindfreak

TLDRonin said:


> Have the ZS10s from aliexpress stores started shipping yet?
> 
> 
> Store who must not be named have not shipped the black ones yet


Mine got shipped out yesterday


----------



## Mellowship

Seems like the ZSE was unburied lately... I got curious about the latest impressions and went to pick my ZSE that has been in the "KZ drawer" since last autumn and rocked them all day yesterday.

These are weird curious little IEMs. I find them dependent of everything. Tip dependent, source dependent, mood dependent, musical stile dependant... I get a lot of mixed feelings about them, really. 

When I got them, I went to pick them up at the mail station and tried them with their standard tips (the black starline) and with the Benjie S5, and out of the box I found them great. Fantastic mids, good aggressive punch but not as strong as the double dynamics suggested, smooth but accurate treble, rolling off in a close signature to the original ATE. I thought I had an updated version of the good old ATE (I really love the old first version ATE) in my hands. Got home, connected them to the FiiO x3II and... the magic is gone...  . To a Topping portable amp, and... nothing to write home about. Listened to various musical styles and the same dull sensation. Tip Rolled them and with foams the good mids were gone. I don't remember more details, but I got unimpressed with them...

Yesterday I used them with the very same settings, black starlines, Benjie S5 with Flac files, and hey, they're good. Tried them on my phone (Honor 8, nothing special), and... they're rubbish. Tried them on my DIY desktop amp (Grado clone), and they're bad. Same tips, same files... 

See, when they are on they're best behaviour, they excell the old ATE. But the ATE plays with everything you throw at them, considering you have the right wide bore tips. The ZSE does not.


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> KZ YOU HEAR THIS?!? ME TOO!!!
> 
> I want 1 more piece of that cake! ;P



I have two pairs of the ZS5(v1)! Maybe when they're value gets to three figures I'll think of selling one


----------



## stimuz

Slater said:


> They are quite tip dependant as well. I can't remember if you're using wide bore Whirlwinds or Auvio tips. But obviously tip rolling might change your mind (which you may already have done).
> 
> Or it could just be they just don't sound good to your ears. Nothing wrong with that. But there sure are heaps of people that love the CM5, so if you want to sell them I'm sure you'll have no issues whatsoever.



I agree, I struggled for weeks with fit but even when they were falling out of my ears I still enjoyed them more than rock zircons lol.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

Slater said:


> They are quite tip dependant as well. I can't remember if you're using wide bore Whirlwinds or Auvio tips. But obviously tip rolling might change your mind (which you may already have done).
> 
> Or it could just be they just don't sound good to your ears. Nothing wrong with that. But there sure are heaps of people that love the CM5, so if you want to sell them I'm sure you'll have no issues whatsoever.



So I was tip rolling again this morning, and found the stock Bullet tips actually work for me. At least until my KZ Starlines arrive, which everyone says seem to work for them so I'm hopeful. I posted more thoughts about the UiiSii tips in the Appreciation thread.


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> KZ YOU HEAR THIS?!? ME TOO!!!




Whyyyyyy? i dont really understand the hype about the ZS5 V1, sure it can be GREAT value for your $ when you consider modding options, but in terms of inner design and sound it's just a prototype for the (better) ZS6.


----------



## stimuz

HiFiChris said:


> Now GearBest lists the ZS10 for pre-order ($46) as well: https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1707254.html



I feel like we're unwittingly kickstarting these iems.


----------



## riffrafff

Slater said:


> You are describing the old (original) box. KZs came in those boxes many years ago. Before the plastic "shield" boxes, before the cardboard boxes with windows, before the new white boxes.
> 
> So you have the original EDR1.



Cool (I think?).   Thanks for that info.


----------



## Vestat

Hi people, Just got my pair of ZS6, I am new to KZ brand so I will just post here my first impressions after one hour of listening.

My previous Iems are:
Monoprice 8320, absolutely love them but they are uncomfy, dated and technology is now one step over them.
Xiaomi Hybrid HD pro, Good clarity but totally no deepness. garbage for my ears. sent back to amazon.
Panasonic 5 dollars miracle, good but really really cheap. and dated as well.
MEElectronics M6 pro, super comfy, light, small, sound good but can't feel half of the middle frequencies.

So I decided to buy those new ZS6.

After playing a bit, I realized how good they are in responding to EQ. You rise bass and bass is rising. powerfull middle freq and boomy when needed. I am actually kind of basshead, I was a bit scared about many reviews about the high freq pitching a lot but, IMHO, I didn't find so much of a problem in those frequencies. The highs are clear and defined, but not problematic or hear fatiguing. they actually respond less to eq but i guess is normal.
They are now burning some hours of general music at 50% volume level so I'll see how they will change tomorrow and the next days.
Definitely a good buy for the price.. I decided to get them on amazon in case I did not like them and I paid 42 euros.. a bit more than the average but you know amazon service. Can't really complain about the sound quality, I like them.
On the other side, the box, the tips and the cable are absolute garbage.
Cables, bluetooth device and more tips are on their way from china. didn't need amazon reliability for those.

Just a question if I may..
Does anybody knows where to find some XL eartips that fits my ZS6? I really don't like foam, never tried gel. the best would be 14mm or more... My ear canal is apparently like Falcon heavy stage one.

Hope this helps, and thanks for any help for my tips!

V


----------



## Mellowship

stimuz said:


> I feel like we're unwittingly kickstarting these iems.


Bah! I'll buy them when someone discovers they are wired incorrectly, full of glue, the crossover is just for looks and only one ba is working but out of phase, and they come down to 14.99.


----------



## skajohyros

Viber said:


> Whyyyyyy? i dont really understand the hype about the ZS5 V1, sure it can be GREAT value for your $ when you consider modding options, but in terms of inner design and sound it's just a prototype for the (better) ZS6.



Zs5 v1 soundstage is so addictive. Much better than zs6 and not as sibilant.
By the way, my zs5 have been dipped and soaked in a glass of water but still work.


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## CoiL (Apr 5, 2018)

Viber said:


> Whyyyyyy? i dont really understand the hype about the ZS5 V1, sure it can be GREAT value for your $ when you consider modding options, but in terms of inner design and sound it's just a prototype for the (better) ZS6.


100% disagree. And I like it in stock, excluding value for $. For me and with my gear, ZS5v1 sounds like open-back IT01, no joke!
Yes it has its tiny faults in SQ but they are almost non-existent when paired with right source gear and amped with lot of "juice" 
I`m not going to repeat myself more than saying that ZS5v1 needs certain requirements to be filled to sound great. Lol, it reminds me myself long back when I had Havi B3Pro1 and didn`t understand hype around it (actually I still don`t but I haven`t heard them properly amped though).
From what I`ve read and discussed, to some ZS6 sounds awful while some like it like "TOTL". It`s all very subjective.

You can send me Your ZS5v1 if You hate it! 


skajohyros said:


> Zs5 v1 soundstage is so addictive. Much better than zs6 and not as sibilant.


+1 
To me they sound very close to open-back HP.


----------



## skajohyros

CoiL said:


> 100% disagree. And I like it in stock, excluding value for $. For me and with my gear, ZS5v1 sounds like open-back IT01, no joke!
> Yes it has its tiny faults in SQ but they are almost non-existent when paired with right source gear and amped with lot of "juice"
> I`m not going to repeat myself more than saying that ZS5v1 needs certain requirements to be filled to sound great. Lol, it reminds me myself long back when I had Havi B3Pro1 and didn`t understand hype around it (actually I still don`t but I haven`t heard them properly amped though).
> From what I`ve read and discussed, to some ZS6 sounds awful while some like it like "TOTL". It`s all very subjective.
> ...


Love my Dt990 and zs5. Soundstage heaven.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

Hello everybody,
Please share the links where to buy KZ Starlines tips and ZS10 for cheap.


----------



## Lifted Andreas (Apr 5, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Please share the links where to buy KZ Starlines tips and ZS10 for cheap.



The Starline tips are here - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-Pairs...-Bud-Tip-for-KZ-ED12-ZS2-ATE-ZS3/252969823455

15 for $0.99!

EDIT: Remember to specify what size you want when ordering, otherwise you'll get all 15 in L size!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 5, 2018)

nadezhda 6004 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Please share the links where to buy KZ Starlines tips and ZS10 for cheap.


https://goo.gl/N1HYYw

I think I got this from Slater.

EDIT: Sorry, double post...cannot be deleted.


----------



## Viber

skajohyros said:


> Zs5 v1 soundstage is so addictive. Much better than zs6 and not as sibilant.



The ZS5 are way hotter at the upper mids and lower treble for my ears. I didn't notice a big enough difference in soundstage.


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> 100% disagree. And I like it in stock, excluding value for $. For me and with my gear, ZS5v1 sounds like open-back IT01, no joke!
> Yes it has its tiny faults in SQ but they are almost non-existent when paired with right source gear and amped with lot of "juice"
> I`m not going to repeat myself more than saying that ZS5v1 needs certain requirements to be filled to sound great. Lol, it reminds me myself long back when I had Havi B3Pro1 and didn`t understand hype around it (actually I still don`t but I haven`t heard them properly amped though).
> From what I`ve read and discussed, to some ZS6 sounds awful while some like it like "TOTL". It`s all very subjective.
> ...



I'm happy with the the ZS5 after my simple mod.   To me it felt like sound from the dynamic drivers was competing with sound from the BAs, especially around the mids and lower treble.
They sound great with some tracks right out of the box, but in other tracks it was wayyy too bright and aggressive for my ears.  That's why i say they have a "prototype" feel to them, because it was a problem which got fix in a later model which used the same components.

I do understand why there's inconsistencies in impressions though (Different ears+Chi-Fi factory consistency+*revisions* etc...), just wanted to share my own experience


----------



## durwood (Apr 5, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Have the ZS10s from aliexpress stores started shipping yet?
> 
> 
> Store who must not be named have not shipped the black ones yet



Store that will not be named shipped my Red ones no mic the other day. Originally I was going for the black but it kept reminding me of a see through phone I had in the 80s/90s as a kid. I picked the red because it blended with the red circuit board better. The blue was a cool color, but I really did not like the blue red look, blue black would have been better.

My Tinaudio T2, ZSR and Urbanfun hifi did not ship yet though from same store on a different order. TRN V20 is also on the way. Now that I understand the signature I am after, I ventured into some other brands looking for a variation.


----------



## Bartig

Hey KZ-aholics, have you got QKZ sets as well? What do you think of them?

I have two:
- QKZ DM1 is good for the money (€4). Very mid centered, although with a very very tight soundstage. 
- QKZ DM9 are so-so, even for €6. Very dark, the bass can become overwhelming and the IEM loses it with complex pieces.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Viber said:


> The ZS5 are way hotter at the upper mids and lower treble for my ears. I didn't notice a big enough difference in soundstage.



I would agree if you were talking about ZS5 v2s.  But v1s are infinitely better.


----------



## bsoplinger

Vestat said:


> …
> Just a question if I may..
> Does anybody knows where to find some XL eartips that fits my ZS6? I really don't like foam, never tried gel. the best would be 14mm or more... My ear canal is apparently like Falcon heavy stage one.
> 
> ...


I assume you've tried the included KZ Starline tips. You got 3 pairs total, M already on the ZS6 shell and a S and L in a plastic pouch. The KZ Starline L aren't as noticeably larger than the M compared to other brands ear tips but if you put them side by side you can see that the body of the L is more bulbous and does indeed take up more room in the ear. 

If those are too small you may have to go with foamies to get a decent seal. About the only larger size I know about but have never actually seen are the JVC Spiral Dot ones. And those basically require ordering then shipping from Japan. There are a few sellers on Amazon and eBay that order in a lot and sell them for more than the direct from Japan price but usually not too much more. But they come in 5 or 6 sizes so the more quickly delivered ones vary based on who knows what reason the domestic sellers chose whatever size they have.


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> Nice experiment there
> 
> I've tried every method imaginable for enameled wire. The method which I've found works best is to separate the colored wires and get any kevlar/nylon strands out of the way. Then hit it with a lighter to burn off the enamel, blowing it out before it burns down too low. Then take a regular uncoated aspirin tablet (old school aspirin; not Tylonol or Advil). Set the end of the wire on the aspirin tablet, and heat it (right on the aspirin tablet) with the soldering iron for 2-4 seconds. The arpirin will melt in that spot and turn into a brown liquid. Do it in a well ventilated areas (or use a vapor hood), because the vapors that come off the aspirin tablet will make you choke. Anyways, the aspirin cleans the end if the wire and you will be able to tin the wire easily. You can save the aspirin tablets and reuse them dozens of times (the brown burnt part is perfectly fine, because when it cools it recrystalizes). I just keep them in my soldering toolbox in an empty pill bottle for reuse later.
> 
> ...


@Slater, you may not be the master of disguises, but you have so many tips and techniques, you appear to me as the ieMacGyver . 
I always wondered how I could rewire some tossed-in-a-box in ears I have. No wonder I gave up on enameled wire, My lame soldering techniques, were uh....lame?

Thank You


----------



## Strat Rider

SomeTechNoob said:


> I would agree if you were talking about ZS5 v2s.  But v1s are infinitely better.


+1, I also have both, and, I fear wearing out the ZS5 v1. 
OTOH my cat will have an easier time finding my ZS5 v2. (They gave up their case for a pair of ZS-6)


----------



## Crumblenaut (Apr 5, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Does anybody knows where to find some XL eartips that fits my ZS6? I really don't like foam, never tried gel. the best would be 14mm or more... My ear canal is apparently like Falcon heavy stage one.
> 
> Hope this helps, and thanks for any help for my tips!
> 
> V



The only tips i've found big enough for me are the pretty expensive Spiral Dots mentioned by bsoplinger above, and these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-Noise-Isolating-Silicone-Earphone-Earbud-Tip-In-Ear-Cover-100-Pcs/162959127774?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
Rather cheap at £4.36 for 50 pairs, and these work better on my ZS5's than the Spiral Dots do.


----------



## oyobass

Vestat said:


> Hi people, Just got my pair of ZS6, I am new to KZ brand so I will just post here my first impressions after one hour of listening.
> 
> My previous Iems are:
> Monoprice 8320, absolutely love them but they are uncomfy, dated and technology is now one step over them.
> ...


I feel your pain. Every silicone tip I use won't seal and/or just falls out of my ears, especially on the relatively heavy ZS6. 

On most IEMs I've tried the only thing that works is foams, most of the time turned around backwards on the nozzle to get enough diameter to make a good seal. 

If you do find anything, report that treasure back here, please. TIA!


----------



## Slater (Apr 5, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> Seems like the ZSE was unburied lately... I got curious about the latest impressions and went to pick my ZSE that has been in the "KZ drawer" since last autumn and rocked them all day yesterday.
> 
> These are weird curious little IEMs. I find them dependent of everything. Tip dependent, source dependent, mood dependent, musical stile dependant... I get a lot of mixed feelings about them, really.
> 
> ...



You know, believe it or not I played with them the whole day a few days ago (based on the ZSE talk a few days ago). I basically came to the same conclusion as you. I havent't found a tip or source combination where they consistently sound the same. They are ridiculously temperamental; like a 2 year old child. Sometimes sweet, sometimes lovable, sometimes not nice at all.

I also found that they are very insertion sensitive. At 1st I thought there was a ~25% channel imbalance. I reinserted them and they were perfectly balanced. Then a little bit later they were out of balance again, but this time the other side. I changed tips and they were perfect again. Even turning my head or moving my mouth can cause them to do odd things. The most consistent insertion I got was using foams, because once you have them inserted they stay 'locked' in place. But the sound isn't as good with foams.

I finally got fed up with them and put them back in the 'drawer of forgotten IEMs'.

It's sad though, because when they sound good they sound good. But it's like a random lottery if and when they are going to sound good. I would rather just use an IEM with a consistent IEM (like the ATE as you mentioned).

_Note: I think what may be happening is there is a pressure buildup (while moving around, turning my head, etc), and it's causing resistance on 1 or both of the drivers. I may make a very small vent hole near the nozzle to reduce any pressure effect._


----------



## Daniel Gur (Apr 5, 2018)

its April, still waiting for a new kz release 

Edit: wait, seems like they have a ZS10 presale on gearbest 
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1707254.html


----------



## Storyteller

I've been trying ZSE today again. They have a strange shape but somehow has decent isolation from exterior sounds using foam tips. I would not dare to use silicon tips wearing them outside. Those things dance and fall from your ears so easily. Anyway I tend to use foam tips outside home for better isolation and to stick the IEM in place.
The foam tips (New Bee M regular ones) don't really fit in the nozzle, so I push them to the end of the plastic canal. That may change the sound a bit, improve the fit and put them closer to the ear so isolation is better, but it feels weird, like I'm "holding it wrong".
These are really strange IEMs. But they still sound bizarrely good to my ears compared to Swing IE800 and ZS3 (Shiny model + Slater mod + premium cables). Of course they don't compete with the rest of 15-30€ favourites, but I bought them for 3€ in a Flash Sale + Points.
Yes, they are very weird.


----------



## handwander

Some non renders. Interesting look.


----------



## Makahl

@Slater Do you have any trick to remove the left/right tags from ZS3? I've tried using alcohol isopropyl and acetone but neither of them could remove it. I remember the ZST was really easy to remove it using isopropyl though.


----------



## Adide

About proper fitting, cable matters as much as the right tip.

I very much like around the ears type because I mainly use iems while comutting and this style is more secure.

I ilke memory wire and recently got a cable with preformed tubes instead of metal inserts. They are incredible in achieveing the proper fit, the iem just snaps right in. Also shirt clips and chin straps can aid in holding cables down and secure a proper position.

Don't forget these details when looking for the best fit.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I'm happy with the the ZS5 after my simple mod.



What mod?


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> @Slater Do you have any trick to remove the left/right tags from ZS3? I've tried using alcohol isopropyl and acetone but neither of them could remove it. I remember the ZST was really easy to remove it using isopropyl though.



I buffed mine off using plastic polish. You have to cover the vent holes, nozzle, and cable plug jacks so no polish gets in them.


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> Hey KZ-aholics, have you got QKZ sets as well? What do you think of them?
> 
> I have two:
> - QKZ DM1 is good for the money (€4). Very mid centered, although with a very very tight soundstage.
> ...



I have a number of QKZ. I think they are all very mediocre with the exception of the W1 Pro and DM200.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> What mod?



Foam around BAs


----------



## Slater

Crumblenaut said:


> The only tips i've found big enough for me are the pretty expensive Spiral Dots mentioned by bsoplinger above, and these:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-Noise-Isolating-Silicone-Earphone-Earbud-Tip-In-Ear-Cover-100-Pcs/162959127774?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
> Rather cheap at £4.36 for 50 pairs, and these work better on my ZS5's than the Spiral Dots do.





oyobass said:


> I feel your pain. Every silicone tip I use won't seal and/or just falls out of my ears, especially on the relatively heavy ZS6.
> 
> On most IEMs I've tried the only thing that works is foams, most of the time turned around backwards on the nozzle to get enough diameter to make a good seal.
> 
> If you do find anything, report that treasure back here, please. TIA!



I know @oyobass turns his tips around backwards, but I was wondering if you guys have ever tried either of these methods? They may work out for you.

Method #1 using large silicone eartips:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...ne-driver-99-usd.865037/page-84#post-14059915
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1647#post-13829756

Method #2 for foam tips (look at the 3rd from last photo and see how much larger the foam tips got when side by side with the unmodified one):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1830#post-14003150


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> I second that Lucky You and it was an amicable trade Still have my gray 5v1 and will be holding onto this pair, backups are important as I just re-ordered a new Gray Benjie S5 and ZS6's in red since I gave my old ones to a close friend back in Texas a few weeks back.
> 
> Glad these Blue Babies have a new (and loving) home
> 
> ...






Podster said:


> I second that Lucky You and it was an amicable trade



I agree. It's always best when it's a good deal for both parties involved. I think trading something that may not get much use for something that will get lots of use is the best type of trade. I miss the Urbanfun Hybrids but I knew that I would pick the BossHiFi B3 over them when given the choice so there was no point in me holding onto them. I could purchase another set of Urbanfuns but I prefer the BossHiFi so the Urbanfun's, which to me score pretty high for a 1+1 hybrid, still wouldn't get as much use as they should. Glad you're enjoying them. 

The gently used but newly arrived ZS5(i) are in perfect condition and sound great, so a million thanks are in order. Currently trying to find a worthy cable to complement their gray housings. 

By the way how would you describe the Urbanfuns and how would you rate them?


----------



## Storyteller

Makahl said:


> Do you have any trick to remove the left/right tags from ZS3? I've tried using alcohol isopropyl and acetone but neither of them could remove it. I remember the ZST was really easy to remove it using isopropyl though.







I Used a sandpaper nail file to erase the letters and then soft grain sandpaper sheets (8000/12000 grade) to polish them. Did the same with my ZSTs and they look so much better.


----------



## Makahl

Storyteller said:


> I Used a sandpaper nail file to erase the letters and then soft grain sandpaper sheets (8000/12000 grade) to polish them. Did the same with my ZSTs and they look so much better.



Thank you, wow they look really good! I did that with my ZST too some time ago:







Although I was trying to avoid sanding the KZ ZS3 down but I will do that later!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 5, 2018)

As to large tips, I have always used these: https://goo.gl/Yo8gKB
They go pretty deep into the ear and hence hold in well.

Great quality, too!

As to sanding down earphones...and I thought only I was whacky! I used to use an angle grinder and then polish them with beer and tzaziki.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> As to large tips, I have always used these: https://goo.gl/Yo8gKB
> They go pretty deep into the ear and hence hold in well.
> 
> Great quality, too!
> ...



This guy gets the gold star for effort for sanding down the ZS5 shells:


----------



## Storyteller

So there you have the inspiration from the those new KZ-something aluminium model in the 2018 line-up. 
Another suspicious similarity?


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> This guy gets the gold star for effort for sanding down the ZS5 shells:


But he should redo his fingernail polish...


----------



## WildSeven

Bought 2 more green zs6 as backup, I should chop my hands off.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> This guy gets the gold star for effort for sanding down the ZS5 shells:


LOL.... I sanded all the way throuh the edge on my ZS6's. They look bad, but I couldn't stand the sharp angles digging into my ears. Still not 100% comfy but much better. Butt ugly tho...


----------



## MDH12AX7




----------



## bsoplinger

With the spate of logo removed pics…

Has anyone had success with the ZSR?


----------



## Bartig

bsoplinger said:


> With the spate of logo removed pics…
> 
> Has anyone had success with the ZSR?


There should be at least someone who hasn’t LEFT the text on there RIGHT?


----------



## Slater

MDH12AX7 said:


>



Was the ZS6 giving you comfort issues?


----------



## HiFindersKeepers

My TRN 2Pin Bluetooth 4.1 Cable arrived yesterday, and I paired it with my ZS6. Didn't really have a use for Aptx and bought this one for about 16 EUR in the Aliexpress sale. First impressions are positive. Watched a summary of Europa League football, streamed some Spotify music and listened to some podcasts and it all worked flawlessly, I had two short stutters while cycling just now, but besides that it works well and it's nice and light. Am interested to see whether the two-pin-plugs of the BT cable will last since they feel a bit less protected than those of the KZ cables. 

I've been struggling to get the remote to work as advertised with my iPhone though. The volume button works flawlessly but when I press the multifunction button in the middle, instead of pausing the music, the remote will immediately order the phone to call the last-dialed number, which meant my parents got several "prank" phone calls this morning. The ZS6 remote cable had a habit of conjuring up Siri instead of pausing the music (which was okay I guess) but this is a bit more annoying, since I can't get the middle button to do anything else. Everything is interpreted as a long press which means "dial last phone number." This is minor annoyance though, which will go away once I've learnt to use that remote for nothing but volume changes. It's the single flaw I can discover so far in a very nice product, and considering the price I paid for it, I'll live with it.


----------



## 424358

I’m a big fan of KZ. I have the ZS6, ZS5v2, cZST. Honestly, they are enough for me. All I need to do is explore this brand, I really don’t have any desire for other products except JVC. Carbon nanotubes are marvelous.

And eventually I’ll get into loudspeakers.

But ZS6 with silver thick cable isn’t sibilant. It has punchy bass, amazing for electronic and hip hop.

Haven’t given my ZS5 a listen to in a while. Been mostly on ZST and ZS6. I need to sell my TFZ S5s to find ZS10


----------



## CoiL (Apr 6, 2018)

Viber said:


> The ZS5 are way hotter at the upper mids and lower treble for my ears.* I didn't notice a big enough difference in soundstage.*


Limitation of source gear? Your HRT should be quite "foward" sounding according to reviews.


Viber said:


> I'm happy with the the ZS5 after my simple mod.  * To me it felt like sound from the dynamic drivers was competing with sound from the BAs, especially around the mids and lower treble.*
> They sound great with some tracks right out of the box, but in other tracks it was *wayyy too bright and aggressive* for my ears.  That's why i say they have a "prototype" feel to them, because it was a problem which got fix in a later model which used the same components.
> I do understand why there's inconsistencies in impressions though (Different ears+Chi-Fi factory consistency+*revisions* etc...), just wanted to share my own experience


Always when I read Your comments about ZS5, I just can`t stop thinking You actually have v2. Also add "foward and brightish" sounding HRT, and that`s the result You don`t like.


SomeTechNoob said:


> I would agree if you were talking about ZS5 v2s.  But v1s are infinitely better.





Strat Rider said:


> +1, I also have both, and, I fear wearing out the ZS5 v1.


I belive You guys! 


Viber said:


> Foam *around* BAs


around??? You should do foam mod inside BA nozzle ring


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> Limitation of source gear? Your HRT should be quite "foward" sounding according to reviews.
> 
> Always when I read Your comments about ZS5, I just can`t stop thinking You actually have v2. Also add "foward and brightish" sounding HRT, and that`s the result You don`t like.
> 
> around??? You should do foam mod inside BA nozzle ring



1.Limitation of source gear?  not really, HS can push full sized headphones just fine, it's designed to be great with low OHM cans.. the ZS5 is just a cheap IEM designed by people who are not at the top of their field, lets not make it into something that it's not.
I also tried the ZS5 with other sources and the  problem was persistent ,although to a different extent.

2.I posted a pic of my ZS5 here, it had 1 BA in the nozzle.

3.I like that sound of the BAs, why would i need to tame it?   having owned the ZS3 and ATR before, i already knew that if i need to sacrifice the treble from somewhere - it's gonna be from the dynamic drivers.   Maybe you're right and i should try the foam inside the BAs, i just dont see the point as i'm already happy with them the way they are.
I do remember putting the foam over the entire nozzle at first...it made the sound kinda boring, i just wanted to keep the "sparkle" from the BAs.


----------



## CoiL (Apr 6, 2018)

Viber said:


> 1.Limitation of source gear?  not really, HS can push full sized headphones just fine, it's designed to be great with low OHM cans.. the ZS5 is just a cheap IEM designed by people who are not at the top of their field, lets not make it into something that it's not.
> I also tried the ZS5 with other sources and the  problem was persistent ,although to a different extent.
> 
> 2.I posted a pic of my ZS5 here, it had 1 BA in the nozzle.
> ...



Answer to point 1: I was talking about *soundstage limitation *caused by DAC sound signature.


> The HeadStreamer is also a little hot up top---a bit too much sparkle in the treble. Accentuated bass and tipped-up treble often portend problems in the mids. And I noticed that here. While the overall sound was pleasant, there is a sense of congestion in the midrange that results in a blurred sonic image.
> Accentuated bass and tipped-up treble often portend problems in the mids. And I noticed that here. While the overall sound was pleasant, there is a sense of congestion in the midrange that results in a blurred sonic image. Further, due to its bassy and trebly sound signature, it is a good choice for someone who is looking to rock out portably for short bursts of time---like a subway commute. But that same signature can be fatiguing, which is why it wouldn't be my first choice for a long listening session.


https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...rtable-usb-headphone-ampdacs-hrt-headstreamer

Point 2: Ok, forgot about it. Maybe it`s then about QC, I don`t know. But as You can see from many other user posts, they don`t find v1 such sounding as You describe.

Point3: You were talking about treble issue(competition between DD) and then You limit DD sound with foam (which carry most of the sound) and "enchance" BA sound... then call it wayyyy too bright?
Then, add up HRT "brightish" signature.... hmmm...


Oh well... I leave it there. Enough comments and impressions about ZS5v1 and talk about their source requirements to sound great. Poor that it didn`t work for You. Move on


----------



## Viber

CoiL said:


> Answer to point 1: I was talking about *soundstage limitation *caused by DAC sound signature.
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...rtable-usb-headphone-ampdacs-hrt-headstreamer
> 
> ...



1. So only the soundstage was affected because of my DAC? hmmm good to know. I'll make sure to buy a bigger,more expansive DAC to support my 20$ IEMS lol.

2. That's why i talked about different ears+factory consistency+revisions in my previous posts.  I don't preach my impressions like gospel, i just want to add my take to the discussion.

3.Who am i to argue with results?  As i mentioned before, i'm not only talking about treble, i remember the whole region between 2K-10K was problematic in *certain*,usually busy tracks.   


I feel as if you're trying to dismiss my impressions so i'll try to quit this debate for now.


----------



## lordaine

Otto Motor said:


> As to large tips, I have always used these: https://goo.gl/Yo8gKB
> They go pretty deep into the ear and hence hold in well.
> 
> Great quality, too!
> ...



Have you tried using double flange? If yes, what's your recommendation?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...3.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.277.A0YSTJ


----------



## CoiL

Viber said:


> 1. So only the soundstage was affected because of my DAC? hmmm good to know.


Not only, didn`t say that. But different DACs and their signature, along with other hardware components and software processing can give different perceived soundstage/imaging result.
I have experienced such difference where HPs capabilities are "held back" by DAC/amp. That`s of course subjective and depends on what one wants from sounds signature and how it is perceived by person (we hear and our brains work differently). It`s all about gear matching 


Viber said:


> I'll make sure to buy a bigger,more expansive DAC to support my 20$ IEMS lol.


No need. Expensive doesn`t always mean better, especially when it comes to subjective side


----------



## nxnje

I really can't wear double flange tips, noise isolation is really strange for me, but i think it's just about comfort.
I will always recommend foam tips since when i tried them
I actually buy just foam tips as silicon ones create "vacuum" feeling in my ears.


----------



## Lifted Andreas

nxnje said:


> I really can't wear double flange tips, noise isolation is really strange for me, but i think it's just about comfort.
> I will always recommend foam tips since when i tried them
> I actually buy just foam tips as silicon ones create "vacuum" feeling in my ears.



I found that dual flange tips only work well with a certain number of IEMs, and the best dual flanges I ever used are the Mee ones. They tend to make bass frequencies more pronounced which some may not like!


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> You know, believe it or not I played with them the whole day a few days ago (based on the ZSE talk a few days ago). I basically came to the same conclusion as you. I havent't found a tip or source combination where they consistently sound the same. They are ridiculously temperamental; like a 2 year old child. Sometimes sweet, sometimes lovable, sometimes not nice at all.
> 
> I also found that they are very insertion sensitive. At 1st I thought there was a ~25% channel imbalance. I reinserted them and they were perfectly balanced. Then a little bit later they were out of balance again, but this time the other side. I changed tips and they were perfect again. Even turning my head or moving my mouth can cause them to do odd things. The most consistent insertion I got was using foams, because once you have them inserted they stay 'locked' in place. But the sound isn't as good with foams.
> 
> ...



Exactly as you pointed out, the pressure on the insertion is almost like ZS3. And I get some driver flex on the ZSE. They should be vented on the nozzle side, as the vents in the back are only relative to the back of the drivers. This also speaks of a good quality construction, as they managed to isolate both portions airtight.

Another thing I dislike about the ZSE is the cable. At first it was like "wow, this is new", this tone of red, almost burgundy, sits well with their forward (or somewhat retro 80's boombox) styling. But the material from which the dielectric is made of is almost as hard as PVC, unlike the rubbery KZ's normal cables. It is stiff and noisy and it pulls the earbuds around when it's not attached or fixed. Thinking about it, if the insertion is a problem with the ZSE, I imagine some your problems should come from the  stiffness of the cable pushing around the earbuds. They would certainly benefit from a chin-slider. 

Talking about chin-sliders, the only KZ I know of that has it is the IE80 (even the cable is a Senn clone). Unfortunately, the original cable from my IE80 was out of phase and I got a third party silver one. It's about time for KZ to offer chin-sliders! 

And that's right, they don't sound so good with foams, as they take the midrange down. Moreover, I find them too hard to insert with foams, due to its uncommon form-factor. Same thing for the ZS3, which makes my ear canals sore with foams.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> Was the ZS6 giving you comfort issues?


Yes. Very uncomfortable after a few minutes. I tried using rubber o_rings to push the tips out farther and that helped a bit. Just too many hard angles.


----------



## oyobass

Chin sliders. I totally agree with you, @Mellowship .
KZ, are you listening?


----------



## Wiljen

Well, I now have 3 new IEMS on the way that should make for an interesting month of reviews.  Zs10, Campfire Comet, and IT03.    I think I can give a pretty good comparison to see if the Zs10 really is a giant killer in the $150-$300 range with my current collection.


----------



## Vestat (Apr 6, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions about the tips, BTW:

- Double flange: I have them from different brands, included the mee ones. They do not fit my ears. definitely, looks like the deeper flange is preventing the outside one to seal properly.. I tried them many times but the do not work at all (for me of course).
- Triple flange: they actually kinda work but I have to work hard to make them seal properly and it's definitely not comfortable the feeling of some silicone getting so deep inside my ear.
- Foam: I should probably buy some better quality ones and give them a shot as long as I only got some free ones provided with the MEE M6pro and the ones included with the monoprice 8320. They are probably both rubbish even if blaming to be genuine complyfoam.
I tried also to make some DIY Hybrid inserting a ring of foam under the flange of an L size silicone one.. was not bad but i could barely feel the difference with or without the ring of foam.
I then tried to make another kind of DIY foam tips by cutting the 3M sound isolating tips for workers... was basically the same feeling as the mentioned "complyfoam" tips.

As far as I know myself, I believe I can get the best result with a tip like this:
- Diameter: Wide, 14mm or more
- Depht: Thin, 10mm or less
- Bore: as a basshead, probably small.
- Material: Silicone, I like the sealed and vacuum feeling that makes basses go boom.
- Color: apparently the white/clear ones provide higher porosity that makes them stay in place better (don't think this apply for all but it's my personal experience).

I would really like to try they LL size of the sony hybrids (with or without foam) but they are nearly impossible to find at a reasonable price.

Any suggestion about some oversized foam tips that can deliver a kind of seal effect close to the silicone one?

Thanks again guys.


----------



## nxnje

Lifted Andreas said:


> I found that dual flange tips only work well with a certain number of IEMs, and the best dual flanges I ever used are the Mee ones. They tend to make bass frequencies more pronounced which some may not like!



Been trying memt x5 triple flange tips, can't find them comfy in any way.
Since when i bought foam stuff, i promised myself i would have never regret it !


----------



## Lifted Andreas

nxnje said:


> Been trying memt x5 triple flange tips, can't find them comfy in any way.
> Since when i bought foam stuff, i promised myself i would have never regret it !



Ah fair enough, I found that dual flange tips only work for only a few IEMs and it depends on your ears as well. There's only been a couple of IEMs in the past when I actually used dual flanges. Can't really do foams though, tried a few times in the past. Guess I'm stuck with silicone haha


----------



## nxnje

Lifted Andreas said:


> Ah fair enough, I found that dual flange tips only work for only a few IEMs and it depends on your ears as well. There's only been a couple of IEMs in the past when I actually used dual flanges. Can't really do foams though, tried a few times in the past. Guess I'm stuck with silicone haha



Would u tip me a good pair of silicon tips that are actually very cheap?


----------



## Vestat (Apr 6, 2018)

The only double flange that actually works with my ears are this ones..






https://photos.app.goo.gl/pk75Z4pmtOyg7Evt1









Basically a cheap but big outer chinese soft silicone tip with a smaller inside skull candy silicone tip that was useless for me.
I may say the result is slightly better isolation with slightly firmer fit.

To make it, just cut off the cylinder of the inside tip with a sharp cutter and simply plug the flange around the cylinder of the bigger one.

It's not a real double flange but I like it. You can of course play with the inside one and change it upon needs and comfort. I have some other ones with bigger inner flange and they deliver a different effect.

Hope this helps


----------



## Slater

Vestat said:


> The only double flange that actually works with my ears are this ones..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very interesting idea! I'll have to give it a try.


----------



## oyobass (Apr 6, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Thanks everyone for the suggestions about the tips, BTW:
> 
> - Double flange: I have them from different brands, included the mee ones. They do not fit my ears. definitely, looks like the deeper flange is preventing the outside one to seal properly.. I tried them many times but the do not work at all (for me of course).
> - Triple flange: they actually kinda work but I have to work hard to make them seal properly and it's definitely not comfortable the feeling of some silicone getting so deep inside my ear.
> ...


This nearly duplicates my experience, except that I prefer wide-bore tips.

I use foams out of necessity but I prefer silicone on the rare occasion that I can get them to seal and keep from falling out of my ears. The IEM needs to be shaped right for this to happen, as well as being light enough that gravity won't drag them out of my ears. UiiSii CM5 is the only current IEM that fits this description. Most of my cable-down, non-Chi-Fi, consumer-oriented IEMs would also fit that description, If I still had them...

The Mee foam is a mee-dium Comply, which might explain why you didn't get along with it.


----------



## Vestat

oyobass said:


> The Mee foam is a mee-dium Comply, which might explain why you didn't get along with it.



That's exactly what I was guessing..
I will make an order for some better quality foam tips to give them a try. Hopefully I will discover some real love...
Thinking about the monster supertips, just because apparently they are huge. very expensive considering KZ environment but they may do the job.

If anybody has some suggestion would be really appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## oyobass (Apr 6, 2018)

Vestat said:


> That's exactly what I was guessing..
> I will make an order for some better quality foam tips to give them a try. Hopefully I will discover some real love...
> Thinking about the monster supertips, just because apparently they are huge. very expensive considering KZ environment but they may do the job.
> 
> ...


I use New Bee Large tips from Amazon.
There are vendors on AliExpress who will supply tips in bulk at substantial savings as well.
I also turn the foams backwards on the IEM nozzle to get a better seal and reduce filtering of the mids and highs a bit.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 6, 2018)

lordaine said:


> Have you tried using double flange? If yes, what's your recommendation?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...3.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.277.A0YSTJ


Yes, I have used double- and triple- flange and they don't work for me at all as the iems tested sounded strange with them. I think it depends on the earphone design as the doubles/triples are going much deeper into the ear canal. And example for a "deep" fit are the Etymotics. Caution is advised.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Vestat said:


> That's exactly what I was guessing..
> I will make an order for some better quality foam tips to give them a try. Hopefully I will discover some real love...
> Thinking about the monster supertips, just because apparently they are huge. very expensive considering KZ environment but they may do the job.
> 
> ...


I too have always had the problem of not finding tips big enough to give me a good seal. I have the Monster Supertips and, while I would agree that their gels are the largest tips I've ever tried, I didn't get along with them at all. They were too firm so, while they filled up my ear canal they did not give a good seal. They also hurt after a while.

However, I'm rather surprised that people in this thread with large ear canals are looking so hard for replacements. I'd actually say that my two favorite eartips by far have been the JVC Spiral Dots L and KZ stock L and I can't say that I clearly prefer one over the other.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 6, 2018)

*ZS5 v1 again: making them work and getting Coiled!*

We had this discussion over and over again here about the sound of the ZS5 v1. Some, including some reviewers, decried nasal, hollow, recessed mids. Others, such as Coil love them. Coil pointed out to us that he uses a very special array of equipment that brings out the best of the ZS5 v1. This includes low-impedance output and substantial amping. And thanks to Coil, we had to learn about impedance...a very useful exercise.

What has never been questioned was that the ZS5 v1 have good soundstage and layering.

My iPhone 5S as well as my audioquest dragonfly dac/amp do have low output impedance, but the ZS5 v1 nevertheless sounded tinny, incoherent, and  heterogenous.

I finally followed Coil's second advice and attached my iPhone 5S to the good old FiiO E12 Montblanc amp and...voila...the ZS5 v1 actually sound pretty good with it: lots of width and depth, voices are coming out nicely, overall with a good fluidity. Don't know why and how and may have to create a frequency response curve for this setup.

In any case a very interesting observation.

My advise to all dissatisfied ZS5 v1 owners: blow $150 on a decent amp to get these $25 jewels to work well, finally. Or throw them away and spend the $150 on beer.  

P.S. Also attached my ZS6 to the Montblanc amp...technically even better than the ZS5, but the amping also exacerbated the ZS6's piercing treble.


----------



## nxnje

Didn't properly understand..
Can u send a photo about how are them connected to the earbud?


----------



## TLDRonin

nxnje said:


> Been trying memt x5 triple flange tips, can't find them comfy in any way.
> Since when i bought foam stuff, i promised myself i would have never regret it !


Didn't the memt x5 only come with double flange?


----------



## bsoplinger

nxnje said:


> Didn't properly understand..
> Can u send a photo about how are them connected to the earbud?


You should probably use the forum reply feature for questions like this because it will quote the post you're asking about and people won't have to guess what you're asking about


----------



## bhazard

The ZS5 v1 amping does not help. I added a 75ohm adapter to it, and I've ran it through my 3+ watt Pulse Infinity X on mid and high gain. Same recessed upper mid/lower treble sound. Needs EQ to bring it back and then it sounds half decent.

ZSR is much better and responds well to slight EQ.


----------



## Vestat

bsoplinger said:


> You should probably use the forum reply feature for questions like this because it will quote the post you're asking about and people won't have to guess what you're asking about



Assuming was talking about my DIY Hybrid eartips I wrote a pm to nxnje to further explain the job, using our common italian language to better achieve the goal. 
If anybody needs some extra explanation I will translate it here.


----------



## TLDRonin

Wiljen said:


> Well, I now have 3 new IEMS on the way that should make for an interesting month of reviews.  Zs10, Campfire Comet, and IT03.    I think I can give a pretty good comparison to see if the Zs10 really is a giant killer in the $150-$300 range with my current collection.


Super interested in hearing your overall impressions/comparisons of the CA Comet. 

I'm glad they made a very budget model (Budget for campfire at least)


----------



## nkramer

Otto Motor said:


> Or throw them away and spend the $150 on beer.



 That's my vote! 
     ***disclaimer: i do not have or have ever owned the ZS5 v1, nor do i think KZ products should be disposed of by throwing them in the trash/bin***


----------



## nxnje

Vestat said:


> The only double flange that actually works with my ears are this ones..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Could you post a photo with the tips inserted in the earbud?




TLDRonin said:


> Didn't the memt x5 only come with double flange?


Y sorry, double, my memory isn't actuallt the best in the world ahahah


----------



## Vestat

nxnje said:


> Could you post a photo with the tips inserted in the earbud?



Sure.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/t2nFcb9ukRNONYz02
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4j5V6puqsOkeg3QY2

It's another one but same concept.
Big white/pink one is skull candy, the inner and smaller one is from some chinese supplier.

Hope this helps


----------



## WildSeven

nkramer said:


> That's my vote!
> ***disclaimer: i do not have or have ever owned the ZS5 v1, nor do i think KZ products should be disposed of by throwing them in the trash/bin***


I was horrified when I see the 2nd BA driver is glued in the ZS5 v1 and did not order it, been on and off this thread untill recently the ZS6 came and I am hooked.
That's going to be my biggest misses on the KZ product, didn't have the ZS5 v1 to explore.


----------



## TLDRonin

WildSeven said:


> I was horrified when I see the 2nd BA driver is glued in the ZS5 v1 and did not order it, been on and off this thread untill recently the ZS6 came and I am hooked.
> That's going to be my biggest misses on the KZ product, didn't have the ZS5 v1 to explore.


Is that the thing that soulsik "exposed"?


----------



## Otto Motor

*Taming the ZS6's treble with Transpore Tape...*

Doesn't make any difference...even without holes poked in with a needle...


----------



## oyobass

Deleted.


----------



## TLDRonin

I think I remember @Nymphonomaniac mention it, but has anyone else tried using earbud foam covers with the ZS6?


The Zhiyin Z5000 came with a pair of strange tips; they were silicone tips that were put inside a earbud foam. It would essentially make the fit more akin to an earbud, and cut treble.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Didn't properly understand..
> Can u send a photo about how are them connected to the earbud?



What don't you understand?

Can who send a photo?

What earbud?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> What don't you understand?
> 
> Can who send a photo?
> 
> What earbud?



If u see my last message, i quoted
I forgot quoting in the first one.



Vestat said:


> Sure.
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/t2nFcb9ukRNONYz02
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/4j5V6puqsOkeg3QY2
> ...


Wow! Gonna try this, it seems interesting.
What do you feel better than a single tip?


----------



## Vestat

nxnje said:


> Wow! Gonna try this, it seems interesting.
> What do you feel better than a single tip?



Thanks for quoting this time 

In my case, it helps to keep the earbud in place giving a bit more stiffness to the ear tips... I feel also a bit of a better external noise isolation.. 
But this is not science.. It was a nice try, I liked it and decided to make more. consider it an experiment


----------



## WildSeven

TLDRonin said:


> Is that the thing that soulsik "exposed"?


Yep, that's the one.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

So I have the TRN Bluetooth attached to some ZS5 which swing wildly about. I’ve seen some other bluetooth equivalents have magnetic parts that clip the IEMs together to stop this swingy.

Has anyone attempted a mod of adding smal magents to a case? Sounds simple enough in theory, but worried about it looking ugly or magentics messing with the sound!

Still keen to try out that new xiaomi aac band, and potetntially concert to KZ 2 pin connector, but waiting and hoping for it t drop in price a a bit!


----------



## riffrafff

CardigdanWalk said:


> So I have the TRN Bluetooth attached to some ZS5 which swing wildly about. I’ve seen some other bluetooth equivalents have magnetic parts that clip the IEMs together to stop this swingy.
> 
> Has anyone attempted a mod of adding smal magents to a case? Sounds simple enough in theory, but worried about it looking ugly or magentics messing with the sound!
> 
> Still keen to try out that new xiaomi aac band, and potetntially concert to KZ 2 pin connector, but waiting and hoping for it t drop in price a a bit!



You have the TRN draped around the back of your neck, right?


----------



## Makahl

Otto Motor said:


> *Taming the ZS6's treble with Transpore Tape...*
> 
> Doesn't make any difference...even without holes poked in with a needle...



I don't know the difference between the Transpore and Micropore (the ones which i've been using) but usually adding layers will increase its acoustical resistance and maybe you'll get the result which you're looking for.


----------



## snip3r77

C2thew said:


> Goodness gracious....  I started with a KZ ZS3 for my running headphones, then bought a ZS6 to see how it stacked up to my Ultimate ears triple fi 10 (smoked them in terms of clarity/treble after modding the headphones with the gauze over the BA drivers), and now I have a pair of EDR1s and some ZS10's (one is being gifted for my brother) with the TRN bluetooth APT-X bluetooth cable on the way.
> 
> Darn it.  gotta stop reading this thread.  What's ironic is that the TRN bluetooth cable is sold with other brands like AUKEY however it doesn't have the necessary 2 pin cable connector so in reality we're paying a premium for the 2 pin KZ variant.
> 
> ...


Is the trn bt good? Need one that has long hours. Use for running


----------



## anindyameister

CardigdanWalk said:


> So I have the TRN Bluetooth attached to some ZS5 which swing wildly about. I’ve seen some other bluetooth equivalents have magnetic parts that clip the IEMs together to stop this swingy.
> 
> Has anyone attempted a mod of adding smal magents to a case? Sounds simple enough in theory, but worried about it looking ugly or magentics messing with the sound!
> 
> Still keen to try out that new xiaomi aac band, and potetntially concert to KZ 2 pin connector, but waiting and hoping for it t drop in price a a bit!


If you care about AAC that much, you could try the Samsung Level U Pro. It has support for apt-x, apt-x HD, samsung's  own UHQ, and of course AAC.

Price is similar as of now. Mi one may or may not go down in  future.


----------



## Strat Rider

TLDRonin said:


> Didn't the memt x5 only come with double flange?


Mine did


----------



## Strat Rider

Otto Motor said:


> *Taming the ZS6's treble with Transpore Tape...*
> 
> Doesn't make any difference...even without holes poked in with a needle...


What about stuffing some of that gauze around the BA's
(full disclosure ... I am just kidding)


----------



## C2thew (Apr 7, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Is the trn bt good? Need one that has long hours. Use for running



I just ordered it so I wont know until it gets here in a month or so.  Based on the reviews... There may still be latency issues.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Hey all,

My Chinese friend has just offered to "buy" me the ZS10 from JD China.

On JD China the price is about $40 CAD, which I will pay back to him. Should I go for it?


----------



## snip3r77

SomeEntityThing said:


> Hey all,
> 
> My Chinese friend has just offered to "buy" me the ZS10 from JD China.
> 
> On JD China the price is about $40 CAD, which I will pay back to him. Should I go for it?


Wait for western reviews


----------



## Viber

ZS10 video in a language we dont understand
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av21565316/


----------



## Vestat

Viber said:


> ZS10 video in a language we dont understand
> https://www.bilibili.com/video/av21565316/



I don't know.. I would like to see some review before this kind of buy.. I'm a bit skeptic about the 4 BA drivers inside.. Their structure sound to my ears like a small buzzzzzz instead of a powerful air wave coming from a big dynamic driver.. It's just a personal opinion but I'm pretty sure the sound signature will be on the high/clear level. I'll be really happy to see some opinions in the next days..


----------



## Nikostr8

Seems like Kz wants to finish the stock of edr1 or something, they are giving 1 pair for free if u purchase the zs6 in their AE store.

Could this mean the end of production of the edr1? 


Ps: does the vent holes in the ZST are supposed to be open right? Just made the BA foam mod by @Slater


----------



## themindfreak (Apr 7, 2018)

Viber said:


> ZS10 video in a language we dont understand
> https://www.bilibili.com/video/av21565316/


Just watched the full video, from what i can understand he say's that the bass is very quick and doesn't sound boomy and it also doesn't sound emphasized as well. Good news is that the treble is very comfortable to listen to (in comparison to Etymotic Er4 it is not as piercing to him), although vocals are slightly recessed with the usual KZ sound sig. Soundstage and seperation is not bad.


----------



## Otto Motor

Vestat said:


> I'm a bit skeptic about the 4 BA drivers inside.



The excellent UE900S also have four BA drivers (but no additional dynamic driver). 



Nikostr8 said:


> Could this mean the end of production of the edr1?



This would NOT come as a surprise. They are old and there is more money in the new models. Grab them while you still can.


----------



## HiFindersKeepers

C2thew said:


> I just ordered it so I wont know until it gets here in a month or so.  Based on the reviews... There may still be latency issues.



Haven’t had latency issues yet after two days, have watched several videos as well .


----------



## DSebastiao

Is there any equivalent brand to KZ on headphones?


----------



## nxnje

DSebastiao said:


> Is there any equivalent brand to KZ on headphones?


There are uiisii, trn, memt that do good heaphones
Anyway, they're not as good as kz in price/quality except some cases.


----------



## DSebastiao (Apr 7, 2018)

nxnje said:


> There are uiisii, trn, memt that do good heaphones
> Anyway, they're not as good as kz in price/quality except some cases.



What cases? Also, how do the Superlux compare? I need some cheap headphones but now that i'm used to some quality, i don't want a hard downgrade.

I'm not talking about iem's, i'm talking about full over the ear headphones.


----------



## mbwilson111

DSebastiao said:


> What cases? Also, how do the Superlux compare? I need some cheap headphones but now that i'm used to some quality, i don't want a hard downgrade.



If you are interested in inexpensive full sized headphones here is a thread.  Right now they have been talking a lot about modding but if you ask there people will help you.  I do like my Superlux HD 681 Evo very much.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-on-or-over-ear-headphones.822184/


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> There are uiisii, trn, memt that do good heaphones
> Anyway, they're not as good as kz in price/quality except some cases.



I think he was looking for full sized headphones not earphones (IEMs).  Those companies do not do headphones do they?


----------



## riffrafff

DSebastiao said:


> What cases? Also, how do the Superlux compare? I need some cheap headphones but now that i'm used to some quality, i don't want a hard downgrade.
> 
> I'm not talking about iem's, i'm talking about full over the ear headphones.



Maybe check out the Philips SHP9500S headphones?  $58 from New Egg w/ free 2-day shipping in the US.  Pretty nice open-back 'phones, IMO.


----------



## toddy0191

DSebastiao said:


> What cases? Also, how do the Superlux compare? I need some cheap headphones but now that i'm used to some quality, i don't want a hard downgrade.
> 
> I'm not talking about iem's, i'm talking about full over the ear headphones.



The standard Superlux hd 681 (non evo) are some of my favourite headphones still.  Some people find them over bright,  but i think they're amazing value for money as can be picked up really cheap at times.


----------



## skajohyros

Otto Motor said:


> *ZS5 v1 again: making them work and getting Coiled!*
> 
> We had this discussion over and over again here about the sound of the ZS5 v1. Some, including some reviewers, decried nasal, hollow, recessed mids. Others, such as Coil love them. Coil pointed out to us that he uses a very special array of equipment that brings out the best of the ZS5 v1. This includes low-impedance output and substantial amping. And thanks to Coil, we had to learn about impedance...a very useful exercise.
> 
> ...



I use the zs5 with topping nx1s and starving student. The zs5 sound really good.


----------



## Otto Motor

riffrafff said:


> Maybe check out the Philips SHP9500S headphones?  $58 from New Egg w/ free 2-day shipping in the US.  Pretty nice open-back 'phones, IMO.


Yes, I have them and also the Sennheiser HD600, for example. The Philips are excellent! But they are "very open back"...you can hear them all over the house.


----------



## Otto Motor

Strat Rider said:


> What about stuffing some of that gauze around the BA's
> (full disclosure ... I am just kidding)


Anything goes!


----------



## Slater

Nikostr8 said:


> Seems like Kz wants to finish the stock of edr1 or something, they are giving 1 pair for free if u purchase the zs6 in their AE store. Could this mean the end of production of the edr1?





Otto Motor said:


> This would NOT come as a surprise. They are old and there is more money in the new models. Grab them while you still can.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2003#post-14150784


----------



## HungryPanda

QKZ?


----------



## DSebastiao

Anyone here that got the red ZS6 can confirm if it comes with the nozzle tip? Anyway i can ask KZ on aliexpress about this?

Also, are there any photos of the ZS10? I don't know which color to choose.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

@DSebastiao take the black. It is very good i saw on earlier pages


----------



## RolledOff

only 3 color atm : black, blue, red
but I'll wait for the purple tho



 
The black is more readily available i think. 
My order on black ZS10 was already shipped, but the blue one is still processed (from different seller)


----------



## mbwilson111

RolledOff said:


> The black is more readily available i think.



If I get the ZS10 I will get the red.  My husband already has a black one coming.  Will wait and see how his sounds.


----------



## Adide (Apr 7, 2018)

RolledOff said:


> My order on black ZS10 was already shipped,



I wonder if this is really the case.

Mine has the status shipped as well (AK store) but in reality it only has a tracking number assigned which stands still with 'Waiting for pickup' as the last update.

This 'fake' shipping (for to not miss formal deadline) is common to Ali sellers without stock but in this case it's understandable due to volumes in recent sales and ZS10 being scarce right now. Their page warns of a 1-2 week delay in shipping so I'm not worried nor upset, AK being one of the most reliable stores on Ali.

You can check the actual status of your tracker via TrackCheckerMobile app on Android or online with 17track.net.


----------



## WildSeven

DSebastiao said:


> Anyone here that got the red ZS6 can confirm if it comes with the nozzle tip? Anyway i can ask KZ on aliexpress about this?
> 
> Also, are there any photos of the ZS10? I don't know which color to choose.



I have 2 pairs at the moment, and 2 more pairs on the way (will see once they arrive). 
1st pair bought 2017 November, no nozzle lip. 2nd pair bought March 2018, again no nozzle lip. Some people have gotten the newer stock with the lip but I think this depends on if the seller sends new or old stock.


----------



## RolledOff

my current status : "Shipment accepted by airline" and "Shipment left country of origin warehouse"


Adide said:


> I wonder if this is really the case.


----------



## mbwilson111

RolledOff said:


> my current status : "Shipment accepted by airline" and "Shipment left country of origin warehouse"



that does sound like it is on the way now...


----------



## DSebastiao

WildSeven said:


> I have 2 pairs at the moment, and 2 more pairs on the way (will see once they arrive).
> 1st pair bought 2017 November, no nozzle lip. 2nd pair bought March 2018, again no nozzle lip. Some people have gotten the newer stock with the lip but I think this depends on if the seller sends new or old stock.



The ones on the way and the one that you got on march, all from aliexpress? Which seller?


----------



## Slater

RolledOff said:


> only 3 color atm : black, blue, red
> but I'll wait for the purple tho



There's no purple planned at all, and never was. So prepare to wait for a long time.


----------



## mbwilson111

RolledOff said:


> only 3 color atm : black, blue, red
> but I'll wait for the purple tho





Slater said:


> There's no purple planned at all, and never was. So prepare to wait for a long time.



There is a purple KZ planned that I am waiting for.  I think it is just a regular hybrid with one dynamic and one BA.  I don't have the model number handy at the moment...if those were model numbers.


----------



## Bartig

Adide said:


> I wonder if this is really the case.
> 
> Mine has the status shipped as well (AK store) but in reality it only has a tracking number assigned which stands still with 'Waiting for pickup' as the last update.
> 
> ...


Aaah! Thanks for sharing this. I was already questioning my situation. Looks like the same.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> There is a purple KZ planned that I am waiting for.  I think it is just a regular hybrid with one dynamic and one BA.  I don't have the model number handy at the moment...if those were model numbers.



This one?


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> This one?



That is the one.  I have posted about it before but it was probably  in another thread.  Too many threads.  Judging from other photos of other iems vs the real thing,  I expect this will be a little less bright and less pinkish.


----------



## DSebastiao (Apr 8, 2018)

[Mod Edit: Quote removed as deleted]
I was thinking of getting them from KZ official store, should have a higher chance of getting the new version.


----------



## WildSeven

DSebastiao said:


> I was thinking of getting them from KZ official store, should have a higher chance of getting the new version.



Well, for me I don't have any issue with the current version as I only use SpinFit tips, they fit tight on the nozzle and super comfortable in my ears.


----------



## charlescc2

Adide said:


> *This 'fake' shipping (for to not miss formal deadline) is common to Ali sellers without stock* but in this case it's understandable due to volumes in recent sales and ZS10 being scarce right now.



Not to derail, but what are our options when this is done?  I bought some Rock Zircons from the ROCK Official Store and am getting irritated with them.  A week went by with no shipping update and messages being ignored.  I finally contacted them on Facebook to find out that they're sold out of black and they asked if I can wait a week.  I tell them that if they have white they can just go ahead and send those, and they mark my order as shipped shortly after.  They also messaged me on AE saying it will take 25-40 days for the item to arrive, when the listed shipping method was ePacket.  ePacket has always fallen within the 9-13 day delivery range for me from other sellers.  I messaged them right back (Wednesday) but haven't got any word back, and my item is not even showing up in the 17track system yet.  I just contacted them again on Facebook to ask what's up, and I'm really ready to just cancel at this point.

Again sorry for the derail, but this is literally the only thread I read or post in, and if there's a more appropriate place I'll take the discussion there.  The funniest part about all of this is I ordered two pairs of EDR2s from another seller on the same day and they arrived yesterday (9 days, ePacket).


----------



## WildSeven

charlescc2 said:


> Not to derail, but what are our options when this is done?  I bought some Rock Zircons from the ROCK Official Store and am getting irritated with them.  A week went by with no shipping update and messages being ignored.  I finally contacted them on Facebook to find out that they're sold out of black and they asked if I can wait a week.  I tell them that if they have white they can just go ahead and send those, and they mark my order as shipped shortly after.  They also messaged me on AE saying it will take 25-40 days for the item to arrive, when the listed shipping method was ePacket.  ePacket has always fallen within the 9-13 day delivery range for me from other sellers.  I messaged them right back (Wednesday) but haven't got any word back, and my item is not even showing up in the 17track system yet.  I just contacted them again on Facebook to ask what's up, and I'm really ready to just cancel at this point.
> 
> Again sorry for the derail, but this is literally the only thread I read or post in, and if there's a more appropriate place I'll take the discussion there.  The funniest part about all of this is I ordered two pairs of EDR2s from another seller on the same day and they arrived yesterday (9 days, ePacket).


Just part of the experience buying from AE, nothing you can do but to live with it. I do appreciate some of the seller they will honest and open to tell you the situation, but some they don't just kept silent or they are not very good at English so try to avoid any communication.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 7, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Anyone here that got the red ZS6 can confirm if it comes with the nozzle tip? Anyway i can ask KZ on aliexpress about this?
> 
> Also, are there any photos of the ZS10? I don't know which color to choose.


My red KS6 don't have a lip. 

Take the blue KS10 if you don't have any blue iems, take the black one otherwise. Choose the red one for your wife.
P.S. This is a model. And a bad model is better than no model.


----------



## Slater (Apr 7, 2018)

Some killer deals on KZ IEMs: https://www.dhgate.com/store/category/earphone/19858469-ff8080814a2e9aa1014a3ed354160cd4.html

I've always wanted to hear the ED12 (reported as meh), so I figured here's my chance for under $3 (I'll just mod it if I don't like it, as ED12 uses a good driver). Also picked up some other goodies, including another pair of ZSRs. The carbon ZST is a great price too. No clue if the ZS5 is v1 or v2, and no clue if the ZS1 is v1 or v2. Please direct all such questions to the seller.

_Disclaimer: I've ordered many things from dhgate, and never had a single problem. However, I have *not* ordered anything from *this* particular seller. If this seller turns out to be shady (as the prices seem too good to be true), I will just take it up with dhgate and/or Visa. Just like everything on every website, you are an adult so buy at your own risk (in other words, don't complain to me).
_
Also, as an added bonus, here's a few cool tracks to listen to while you are checking out the KZs. The tracks are free, and can even be downloaded (for free) as lossless wav files (which you can then convert to flac or mp3 or whatever):


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 8, 2018)

Slater said:


> Some killer deals on KZ IEMs: https://www.dhgate.com/store/category/earphone/19858469-ff8080814a2e9aa1014a3ed354160cd4.html
> 
> I've always wanted to hear the ED12 (reported as meh), so I figured here's my chance for under $3 (I'll just mod it if I don't like it, as ED12 uses a good driver). Also picked up some other goodies, including another pair of ZSRs. The carbon ZST is a great price too. No clue if the ZS5 is v1 or v2, and no clue if the ZS1 is v1 or v2. Please direct all such questions to the seller.
> 
> ...




The ED12 isn't a bad in-ear monitor but its sound signature is an odd one. The midrange is far too forward and the higher frequencies are somewhere backstage while the bass is full-on. Almost everything else KZ has released sounds better (I haven't heard the HDS2 or GR), so you'll probably use the housings to fashion something better.



 


Notice that my red is LEFT and my blue is RIGHT.



I will eventually post a proper review of the ED12 only because this thread is very successful (20,000+ posts) and a full description of every KZ should be accessible from the search menu. As usual there will always be a link to B9's thorough reviews of each KZ as well.

https://thecontraptionist.blog/category/knowledge-zenith/

KZ GR


----------



## snip3r77

charlescc2 said:


> Not to derail, but what are our options when this is done?  I bought some Rock Zircons from the ROCK Official Store and am getting irritated with them.  A week went by with no shipping update and messages being ignored.  I finally contacted them on Facebook to find out that they're sold out of black and they asked if I can wait a week.  I tell them that if they have white they can just go ahead and send those, and they mark my order as shipped shortly after.  They also messaged me on AE saying it will take 25-40 days for the item to arrive, when the listed shipping method was ePacket.  ePacket has always fallen within the 9-13 day delivery range for me from other sellers.  I messaged them right back (Wednesday) but haven't got any word back, and my item is not even showing up in the 17track system yet.  I just contacted them again on Facebook to ask what's up, and I'm really ready to just cancel at this point.
> 
> Again sorry for the derail, but this is literally the only thread I read or post in, and if there's a more appropriate place I'll take the discussion there.  The funniest part about all of this is I ordered two pairs of EDR2s from another seller on the same day and they arrived yesterday (9 days, ePacket).



If you're ok to wait then wait , if not just dispute. Next time vote with your wallet who gets your dough


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> The ED12 isn't a bad in-ear monitor but its sound signature is an odd one. The midrange is far to forward and the higher frequencies are somewhere backstage while the bass is full-on. Almost everything else KZ has released sounds better (I haven't heard the HDS2 or GR), so you'll probably use the housings to fashion something better.
> 
> Notice that my red is LEFT and my blue is RIGHT.
> 
> ...


The KZ GR is awful in every respect: Way too heavy, keeps on falling out of the ear, and the sound is...meh.


----------



## Bartig (Apr 8, 2018)

Slater said:


> Some killer deals on KZ IEMs: https://www.dhgate.com/store/category/earphone/19858469-ff8080814a2e9aa1014a3ed354160cd4.html
> 
> I've always wanted to hear the ED12 (reported as meh), so I figured here's my chance for under $3 (I'll just mod it if I don't like it, as ED12 uses a good driver). Also picked up some other goodies, including another pair of ZSRs. The carbon ZST is a great price too. No clue if the ZS5 is v1 or v2, and no clue if the ZS1 is v1 or v2. Please direct all such questions to the seller.
> 
> ...



6 dollars for a KZ ZSR, 16 for a ZS6? These deals look to good to be true...

Still: bought the black ZS6 even though the ZS10 will probably be better and the green ZSR.


----------



## RolledOff

Bartig said:


> 6 dollars for a KZ ZSR, 16 for a ZS6? These deals look to good to be true...


25 was the lowest i ever found for ZS6, on 11/11 last year
16 is much more scary


----------



## jeromeaparis (Apr 8, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> What cases? Also, how do the Superlux compare? I need some cheap headphones but now that i'm used to some quality, i don't want a hard downgrade.
> 
> I'm not talking about iem's, i'm talking about full over the ear headphones.



Superlux HD681 and HD668B are the best. (I have both), HD668B is slightly better (more balanced trebles + "3D" soundstage)
Allthough I have several KZ earphones including ZS6 & ZSR, I cannot compare head and ear-phones, not the same feeling nore same kind of sound, 
but I believe  ZS6 & HD668B are the best choice


----------



## donunus

KZ ATR = insane value for the money. only annoying thing is a slight peak in the transition between the upper mids to lower treble. Other than that, The thing is freaking awesome. Note that even my periodic be has some weirdness in the upper mids to low treble.


----------



## CoiL

bhazard said:


> The ZS5 v1 amping does not help. *I added a 75ohm adapter to it,* and I've ran it through my 3+ watt Pulse Infinity X on mid and high gain. Same recessed upper mid/lower treble sound. Needs EQ to bring it back and then it sounds half decent
> ZSR is much better and responds well to slight EQ.



There is Your problem! ZS5v1 need low-output impedance source, low-impedance cable and rather more mA than voltage. 70ohm adapter "kills" any opportunity to make it sound "right".


----------



## Aevum

Anyone god their ZS10 yet ?


----------



## mbwilson111

donunus said:


> KZ ATR = insane value for the money. only annoying thing is a slight peak in the transition between the upper mids to lower treble. Other than that, The thing is freaking awesome. Note that even my periodic be has some weirdness in the upper mids to low treble.



My ATR shipped a few days ago from China.  Looking forward to it, especially after reading your impressions,.


----------



## Nikostr8 (Apr 8, 2018)

charlescc2 said:


> Not to derail, but what are our options when this is done?  I bought some Rock Zircons from the ROCK Official Store and am getting irritated with them.  A week went by with no shipping update and messages being ignored.  I finally contacted them on Facebook to find out that they're sold out of black and they asked if I can wait a week.  I tell them that if they have white they can just go ahead and send those, and they mark my order as shipped shortly after.  They also messaged me on AE saying it will take 25-40 days for the item to arrive, when the listed shipping method was ePacket.  ePacket has always fallen within the 9-13 day delivery range for me from other sellers.  I messaged them right back (Wednesday) but haven't got any word back, and my item is not even showing up in the 17track system yet.  I just contacted them again on Facebook to ask what's up, and I'm really ready to just cancel at this point.
> 
> Again sorry for the derail, but this is literally the only thread I read or post in, and if there's a more appropriate place I'll take the discussion there.  The funniest part about all of this is I ordered two pairs of EDR2s from another seller on the same day and they arrived yesterday (9 days, ePacket).


In my opinion you should cancel it right now, I'll tell you my case: After reading so many good feedback about them and reading the audiobudget review i was most than sold. I was completely new in that time so my knowledge about brands and sound etc was null so , since every said good things about them i had to buy them. (the conversation goes from bottom to top)

 

as you can see they completely ignored my request of sending the white version and they ask for a 5star feedback after all the problem , or dont leave one at all.What a joke.

I got a DHL track number that didnt work in all this time.

pls cancel that and buy a better IEM.


----------



## donunus

mbwilson111 said:


> My ATR shipped a few days ago from China.  Looking forward to it, especially after reading your impressions,.


Don't get me wrong, they aren't full size headphone killers but they were definitely ridiculous for the price and in the IEM world even more ridiculous since there are so many bad iems even at the above 500 dollar price range.


----------



## Nikostr8

the white and red version of ZSR are available at KZ official store!

https://es.aliexpress.com/store/pro...74.html?spm=a219c.12010615.0.0.7b0c209eJXjoQT


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 8, 2018)

donunus said:


> Don't get me wrong, they aren't full size headphone killers but they were definitely ridiculous for the price and in the IEM world even more ridiculous since there are so many bad iems even at the above 500 dollar price range.



Having never heard an IEM above $100 I had no idea that ones above $500 could be bad.  I am happy to stick with less expensive ones. I like what I have. My most expensive one is my iBasso IT01 at $100. I love it.  I do not intend to buy any others at that price or above.  I would be very upset if I spent that much or more and then hated it.  Price certainly does not predict quality in my experience.

I am just curious to hear the ATR because people were talking about it recently.  I have no huge expectations.  I paid £5 on Amazon UK but it is coming from China.  Probably could have gotten it slightly cheaper on Aliexpress but not by much.  I can return it to Amazon if mine is horrible.


----------



## CoiL

latest KZ ATR buyers... could You please (if You are willing to) remove nozzle grill for a moment and look inside nozzle and tell us if Your driver shelling is red or blue?


----------



## friuns

somebody replied me in comment section 
"I just got my ZS10. The sound quality is better than ZS6 for sure but one thing I don't like is that it's too big to fit exactly in my ear. Otherwise it's all good. Worth the price."


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 8, 2018)

CoiL said:


> latest KZ ATR buyers... could You please (if You are willing to) remove nozzle grill for a moment and look inside nozzle and tell us if Your driver shelling is red or blue?



My ATR is not here yet but I would be afraid of ruining it by messing with the grill.  Shining a flashlight on it will not help?  Would the grill go back on properly?  I never want a grill to fall inside my ear!


----------



## Slater

RolledOff said:


> 25 was the lowest i ever found for ZS6, on 11/11 last year
> 16 is much more scary



I bought (2) from GearBest for $19.99 each. So that dhgte price isn't too far off...


----------



## Otto Motor

friuns said:


> somebody replied me in comment section
> "I just got my ZS10. The sound quality is better than ZS6 for sure but one thing I don't like is that it's too big to fit exactly in my ear. Otherwise it's all good. Worth the price."



I like the stripper music.


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> Having never heard an IEM above $100 I had no idea that ones above $500 could be bad.  I am happy to stick with less expensive ones. I like what I have. My most expensive one is my iBasso IT01 at $100. I love it.  I do not intend to buy any others at that price or above.  I would be very upset if I spent that much or more and then hated it.  Price certainly does not predict quality in my experience.
> 
> I am just curious to hear the ATR because people were talking about it recently.  I have no huge expectations.  I paid £5 on Amazon UK but it is coming from China.  Probably could have gotten it slightly cheaper on Aliexpress but not by much.  I can return it to Amazon if mine is horrible.


The ATR are good for what they are and you will like them. They have no weakness, are well rounded, and sound like fun. You will only hear a difference when directly comparing them to more expensive earphones. I ordered a second pair.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 8, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> My most expensive one is my iBasso IT01 at $100. I love it.


I also love the iBasso IT01 and used the Sennheiser HD231 headphones thereafter this morning (bought on sale at best buy for $25 CAD):
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Wired-231I-Headphones-HD231i/dp/B074G8JC1V

To my utter surprise, these Senns HD231 totally outplayed the iBasso iems. Diana Krall's voice was much firmer and more natural with the Senns, her piano also sounded more natural, the bass was as dry as a good Martini, and the stage and depth were just breathtaking. This is in stark contrast to Sennheiser's cheaper iems, which are nothing special and way behind the iBasso.


----------



## SciOC

Why does buying kz IEMs have to be so confusing? Should I just order from gearbest or the official kz store on ali for my first order?  I'd like to pick up the zs10, zsr and atr.  I'm just not liking the extreme variation of sellers prices and questionable stocking status of the zs10.


----------



## Wiljen

Pretty much all the Zs10s are pre-orders right now whether they say that or not.   Most all the shippers reference shipping some time around 4/19.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 8, 2018)

SciOC said:


> Why does buying kz IEMs have to be so confusing? Should I just order from gearbest or the official kz store on ali for my first order?  I'd like to pick up the zs10, zsr and atr.  I'm just not liking the extreme variation of sellers prices and questionable stocking status of the zs10.


Check the sellers' rating and how many items they have sold. Don't go for anybody with zero orders. Good stores are for example weasy and NiceHCK. The KZ official store appears to be generally expensive - and is likely unrelated to KZ. So far, I have never had any real problems with aliexpress. Also check the shipping speed: China registered airmail has taken up to 165 days to Canada.

In the past, Gearbest had the best deals on KZ stuff - which may have changed with the advent of the ZS10. But they give you a fast shipping option for $2-3 more: typically 16-26 days to Canada.

Time is money when you have to wait for 165 days!


----------



## Otto Motor

Wiljen said:


> Pretty much all the Zs10s are pre-orders right now whether they say that or not.   Most all the shippers reference shipping some time around 4/19.


You mean this tracking is "imaginative"?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Wiljen said:


> Pretty much all the Zs10s are pre-orders right now whether they say that or not.   Most all the shippers reference shipping some time around 4/19.



I’ve heard at least some black ones have shipped and are arriving.

Went for Red no mic from NiceHCK here and still waiting, will they get in touch to ask to extend again if hasn’t shipped in time?


----------



## Wiljen

Well intentioned, but probably untrue.    I've had stuff say that for 30 days and when it arrives at my end the earliest marking on the package will be 10 days before arrival and the packing slip will be 12 or 13 days old.  I'm not sure the supposed tracking on some of stores has any basis in reality.  I've also been given tracking numbers that never turned up in the system but the items did arrive with a number that shared nothing with the one I was given other than the fact both contained digits.  In one case, even the shipper was different (Fedex vs DHL).


----------



## Slater (Apr 8, 2018)

SciOC said:


> Why does buying kz IEMs have to be so confusing? Should I just order from gearbest or the official kz store on ali for my first order?  I'd like to pick up the zs10, zsr and atr.  I'm just not liking the extreme variation of sellers prices and questionable stocking status of the zs10.



How is it confusing? We live in a (mostly) free world, with capitalism markets in most places.

How many sellers sell Coca Cola? Tens of thousands? How many sell it at the exact same price? How many sell Pepsi instead of Coca Cola?

Just pick a place and buy it.

Amazon, ebay, Aliexpress, dhgate, Gearbest, banggood, wish, dealextreme, fasttech, geekbuying, tmart, joybuy, etc etc

Also, there is no 'questionable' stocking of ZS10 because it's not even widely available. It's not like it's some big conspiracy; it's simply sellers taking pre-sale orders.


----------



## SciOC

Yeah, except they're not telling you they're preorders!  I can't remember ordering a Coke and having them tell me it was in stock when they were awaiting shipment....

There seems to be a lot of questionable and misleading information from sellers out there versus other brands.  Gearbest just changed their shipping date to align with everyone else, I think that'll be my go to and in Black since supposedly the other colors are a bit behind.


----------



## charlescc2

Nikostr8 said:


> In my opinion you should cancel it right now, I'll tell you my case: After reading so many good feedback about them and reading the audiobudget review i was most than sold. I was completely new in that time so my knowledge about brands and sound etc was null so , since every said good things about them i had to buy them. (the conversation goes from bottom to top)
> 
> *attachment snip*
> 
> ...



Thanks for this.  I feel like I'm being given a similar runaround.  I felt like I had to try the Rock Zircon's at $8 bucks after seeing them talked about a bit, and with how Audiobudget feels about them.  If they don't give me a good response by mid week I'll try to get a cancellation.


----------



## Slater (Apr 8, 2018)

SciOC said:


> Yeah, except they're not telling you they're preorders!  I can't remember ordering a Coke and having them tell me it was in stock when they were awaiting shipment....
> 
> There seems to be a lot of questionable and misleading information from sellers out there versus other brands.  Gearbest just changed their shipping date to align with everyone else, I think that'll be my go to and in Black since supposedly the other colors are a bit behind.



Gearbest says right on the product page "Dispatch: Apr 17 - Apr 21". This means if you order it now, it won't ship out until between Apr 17 - Apr 21. So you are PRE ordering it.

It's no different than pre-ordering a new model of anything - like a car that isn't in stock at your local dealerships yet.

No one is forcing you buy any of these products. If pre-ordering the ZS10 makes you uneasy, then simply wait until it's widely in stock and order it via Amazon Prime. As I tell my teenage daughter in similar situations, "_unless you can invent a time machine, you're just going to have to be patient like everyone else._"


----------



## Adide

SciOC said:


> Why does buying kz IEMs have to be so confusing? Should I just order from gearbest or the official kz store on ali for my first order? I'd like to pick up the zs10, zsr and atr. I'm just not liking the extreme variation of sellers prices and questionable stocking status of the zs10.



Two of the bigest and most reliable stores are AKAudioStore and NiceHCK. Go with them. Place an order for ZSR and ATR that should ship right away.

Now you learned that ZS10 is pre-order and most people are waiting patiently (seems that asian customers have some sort of priority and have already received them that's where the few reviews are coming from). So either place an additional separate order for ZS10 and ready your smokes or wait some more for general availability and place an order later if that peaces your mind.


----------



## bsoplinger

Speaking of pre-orders and not actually shipping yet… What about the ED15? The ED model that's a DD + BA hybrid? Is that actually released?


----------



## HungryPanda

bsoplinger said:


> Speaking of pre-orders and not actually shipping yet… What about the ED15? The ED model that's a DD + BA hybrid? Is that actually released?


 My tracking still says waiting for pick up


----------



## SciOC

Slater said:


> Gearbest says right on the product page "Dispatch: Apr 17 - Apr 21". This means if you order it now, it won't ship out until between Apr 17 - Apr 21. So you are PRE ordering it.
> 
> It's no different than pre-ordering a new model of anything - like a car that isn't in stock at your local dealerships yet.
> 
> No one is forcing you buy any of these products. If pre-ordering the ZS10 makes you uneasy, then simply wait until it's widely in stock and order it via Amazon Prime. As I tell my teenage daughter in similar situations, "_unless you can invent a time machine, you're just going to have to be patient like everyone else._"


Before gear best was saying may 7th while the rest, if they weren't saying "in stock" were saying approx. April 16.  Seems like some of the Ali sellers want to make it seem like they have it when they don't.   I'm fine waiting, I just don't want to get straight up hustled...  

Thanks for the suggestions adide, that's what I was hoping for since I'm relatively new to Ali.  It's already available on Amazon but ships from China.  I've tried to order stuff with prime shipping before (the zsr) and have gotten the run-around with shipping delays that seemed fishy at best, so Amazon isn't immune to shady sellers.   Makes you realize why people have authorized distributors....


----------



## Adide

SciOC said:


> Makes you realize why people have authorized distributors....



Well this is chi-fi. Caveats apply. Just make sure to set your expectations right. We will gladly help in this jungle, just remember you're not in the city anymore. Good luck and don't forget to visit, you'll learn more.

PS: almost all stores posted a disclaimer about ZS10 shipping delays, you just have to visit Item Description page to get it. It's just part of AE learning curve where you won't get everything up front like you would expect. But overall AE is good (if you're willing to wait) and customer protection is top notch - you won't lose money.


----------



## oneula

allot of my orders from the recent Ali sale showed up with a week of two
a couple are stuck in dispatch but I was expecting a month or so wait


----------



## Sito Lupion

I made my order of the ZS10 on 27/3 and now they are flying to my country, if I am lucky, I will be able to enjoy them at the weekend...


----------



## Wiljen

I've ordered mine as well, if and when it arrives, it arrives.  Doesn't pay to get too worked up about things coming from Ali or Gear as it will send your blood pressure up, but it wont change them so nothing productive comes of it.


----------



## friuns

can't wait somebody review zs10


----------



## Makahl

friuns said:


> can't wait somebody review zs10



If you can read Japanese or use some translator there are already some reviews/impressions:

https://www.it-found.com/blog/kz-zs10-review/
https://twitter.com/LapinssGogo
https://twitter.com/bisonicr

Also, if you have twitter/tweetdeck searching for the term "ZS10" you will find a lot of impressions and hi-res pictures.


----------



## Slater

friuns said:


> can't wait somebody review zs10



What's the rush?


----------



## rokushoo

CoiL said:


> latest KZ ATR buyers... could You please (if You are willing to) remove nozzle grill for a moment and look inside nozzle and tell us if Your driver shelling is red or blue?


The driver shell on the set I received four days ago is red.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 9, 2018)

friuns said:


> somebody replied me in comment section
> "I just got my ZS10. The sound quality is better than ZS6 for sure but one thing I don't like is that it's too big to fit exactly in my ear. Otherwise it's all good. Worth the price."





A word of caution to those of you who are new to the thread. Be aware that some people that complain about KZ's hurting their ears is because they are connecting the cables incorrectly they way they are being connected in this video. If you are new to in-ear monitors with detachable cables then please refer to the included directions. 

Inserting the cables backwards would make any IEM unbearable for more than two minutes.

When the cable is connected it should look like this.




Not like this.


----------



## anindyameister

DocHoliday said:


> A word of caution to those of you who are new to the thread. Be aware that some people that complain about KZ's hurting their ears is because they are connecting the cables incorrectly they way they are being connected in this video. If you are new to in-ear monitors with detachable cables then please refer to the included directions.
> 
> Inserting the cables backwards would make any IEM unbearable for more than two minutes.
> 
> When the cable is connected it should look like this.


How would even one manage to do that ? Aren't the sockets kind of "keyed", with a rounded side ?


----------



## bsoplinger

anindyameister said:


> How would even one manage to do that ? Aren't the sockets kind of "keyed", with a rounded side ?


The key isn't very obvious. What's worse you can plug them in backwards and get a solid connection which will lead you to believe that everything is correct. And that doesn't even address the quality control issues of incorrectly oriented sockets on the body nor incorrect wiring at the jack end.


----------



## CoiL (Apr 9, 2018)

rokushoo said:


> The driver shell on the set I received four days ago is red.


Ok. Thanks a lot!

This 2nd case with ATR having red shelled driver inside that is same as 5th gen ATE.
I`m suspecting that old ATR with blue shelled drivers are pretty much gone and all newer ones have actually 5th gen ATE driver inside (which sounds great imo).


----------



## anindyameister

bsoplinger said:


> The key isn't very obvious. What's worse you can plug them in backwards and get a solid connection which will lead you to believe that everything is correct. And that doesn't even address the quality control issues of incorrectly oriented sockets on the body nor incorrect wiring at the jack end.


Is poor QC that common ? Usually I can immediately hear the tinny and spread-out, out of phase sound, if one side has reversed polarity.


----------



## bsoplinger

anindyameister said:


> Is poor QC that common ? Usually I can immediately hear the tinny and spread-out, out of phase sound, if one side has reversed polarity.


In some sense 'that' common is a subjective term. I can say that you can find posts here in this thread mentioning both issues. I believe that QC issues are more prevalent than I as a Westerner expect. I will even say that as an American I have a completely impossible belief that there should never be a QC issue. At least I'm aware enough about how unrealistic that is and have learned to accept the occasional problem as long as I can get satisfaction via customer service without lots of effort. But I can't say that an even higher than prevalent QC problem makes it too often.


----------



## Sebilion

My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?


----------



## Viber

Sebilion said:


> My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?



Sibilance,hot treble, challenging metal songs


----------



## skajohyros

Sebilion said:


> My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?


That was quick. Do you have the zs5v1 to compare?


----------



## Sebilion

skajohyros said:


> That was quick. Do you have the zs5v1 to compare?


Unfortunately not, I hated my kz zs5 so I sold them. I only have the 2 versions of kz zs6 which are practically the same. But I will compare them


----------



## Sebilion

Viber said:


> Sibilance,hot treble, challenging metal songs


Great! I listen to metal music anyway so I'll try the treble and bass and will let you know


----------



## Viber

Sebilion said:


> Great! I listen to metal music anyway so I'll try the treble and bass and will let you know



Thank you! i don't know why but songs by "Parkway Drive" has become my headphones stress test haha.  I think it's because they are so busy and fast.


----------



## vito45

Hi, I just get ZS5 but I cant plug cable. I tried different angles and lot of force, everything seem undamaged. It is normal?


----------



## Sebilion

vito45 said:


> Hi, I just get ZS5 but I cant plug cable. I tried different angles and lot of force, everything seem undamaged. It is normal?


It is a kz thing. To me it usually happens with the right earpiece. You have to keep trying until it gets in. It's normal


----------



## Superluc

vito45 said:


> Hi, I just get ZS5 but I cant plug cable. I tried different angles and lot of force, everything seem undamaged. It is normal?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


----------



## anindyameister

vito45 said:


> Hi, I just get ZS5 but I cant plug cable. I tried different angles and lot of force, everything seem undamaged. It is normal?


Just make sure you match R/L on the driver housing with the R/L embossed on the plug, and apply moderate pressure. Ensure the force isn't at and angle, or the pins might get bent.


----------



## Holypal

Sebilion said:


> My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?



Fit, comfort, soundstage.


----------



## Vestat

vito45 said:


> Hi, I just get ZS5 but I cant plug cable. I tried different angles and lot of force, everything seem undamaged. It is normal?



I also needed a bit of skill plus some brute force.. Just be sure you plug the connector on a perfect 90° line to avoid any damage to the pins.. then progressively increase force while pushing on that axis. If you feel you are breaking something, just stop, double check what you're doing and try again. I believe this is just to prevent the cable to fall down during regular use.


----------



## Superluc

Holypal said:


> Fit, comfort, soundstage.


Fit and comfort are too personal. Those ZS10 seem also so big... who knows without try them by himself.


----------



## vito45

Thanks for help. Left went with full force in. For right I used pliers, I fight about 5 minutes and end up sweaty but plug went in and they are working. I newer used so much force when working with audio...


----------



## Superluc

I hope you have plug them correctly...

Do some tests, for be sure: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## Vestat

Sebilion said:


> My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?



Very interesting, thanks in advance for your effort.
I am not particularly attracted by the product but would definitely be happy to read something about it. Especially compared to the ZS6 that you actually own would be amazing.


----------



## zazaboy

Sebilion said:


> My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?



@Sebilion is the treble fixed .. is it still piercing and how is the bass and soundstage compared to kz zs6 thanks


----------



## hiflofi (Apr 9, 2018)

Sebilion said:


> My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?



I am most interested in the *soundstage and resolution of details* compared to the ZS6. Also wonder if the ZS10 will have *better, more pronounced mids* compared to the ZS6.

Just imo, I didn't mind the treble or the bass on the ZS6. People considered the ZS6 ever so slightly v-shaped and I can understand that. I just felt, minus maybe the treble sometimes, the ZS6 was ideal. The ability of the ZS6 to resolve details was great for the price.


----------



## snip3r77

Sebilion said:


> My kz zs10 just arrived! I will try them and compare them to my kz zs6 when I go home this evening. Is there anything in particular you want me to test?



piercing highs as compared to zs5v1 
bass/sub bass
mids


----------



## Sebilion

First impressions of kz zs10:
- I don't like the plastic casing, it feels cheap and it doesn't have any indication on which is L and which is R. I had put them wrong and the sound was horrible  I had to use my HTC 10 to figure it out 
- They have very different sound signature to the kz zs6, the feel more muddy a little bit when it comes to the bass and don't have the huge treble of their predecessor
- I like the sound stage and separation but I was expecting better sound quality, they don't have any vents for the sound to escape so maybe that's why
- They sound as an upgrade to the kz zs6 in terms of sound but this is just a personal preference  
- I need some time with them and the kz zs6 to get a better feel of their differences
- Vocals are more refined and more front 
- They are not comfortable to my ears at all
- I like the braided cable they come with 
- I am too scared to open them but I would love to know how the drivers are placed because I have a feeling that the dynamic driver is actually in front this time. 
I will update again tomorrow after I have more time to listen to them in depth


----------



## Viber

Sebilion said:


> First impressions of kz zs10:
> - I don't like the plastic casing, it feels cheap and it doesn't have any indication on which is L and which is R. I had put them wrong and the sound was horrible  I had to use my HTC 10 to figure it out
> - They have very different sound signature to the kz zs6, the feel more muddy a little bit when it comes to the bass and don't have the huge treble of their predecessor
> - I like the sound stage and separation but I was expecting better sound quality, they don't have any vents for the sound to escape so maybe that's why
> ...




Hmmm, maybe try using it with a different cable or try different tips?


----------



## vladstef (Apr 9, 2018)

Sebilion said:


> First impressions of kz zs10:
> - I don't like the plastic casing, it feels cheap and it doesn't have any indication on which is L and which is R. I had put them wrong and the sound was horrible  I had to use my HTC 10 to figure it out
> - They have very different sound signature to the kz zs6, the feel more muddy a little bit when it comes to the bass and don't have the huge treble of their predecessor
> - I like the sound stage and separation but I was expecting better sound quality, they don't have any vents for the sound to escape so maybe that's why
> ...



They have 3 vents according to photos that I've seen and I would say that 2 are acting as a back vent and one is front (pretty much like ZS5/ZS6).
Positioning is questionable, I think that many people will have covered some of these vents with their ears and perhaps you are covering the front vent and that's why it's muddy sounding. This is not your fault and maybe it's not even happening but vents are definitely positioned without much consideration. One could say that they did the same with ZS5/6 but they have more of a flat area there which is close to impossible to fully cover regardless of someone's ear shape.

This is all just a guess.

You can see 3 vents on this photo. 2 are clearly visible and third one is directly on top of dynamic driver, close to the center of it.


----------



## vladstef

And just to confirm, here is a photo from taobao showing exactly these vents. Extremely bad placement, all 3 of them could be easily covered and they do change the sound drastically, especially the front vent.
We should be prepared for another round of contrasting impressions/reviews solely due to vents.


----------



## Sebilion

vladstef said:


> They have 3 vents according to photos that I've seen and I would say that 2 are acting as a back vent and one is front (pretty much like ZS5/ZS6).
> Positioning is questionable, I think that many people will have covered some of these vents with their ears and perhaps you are covering the front vent and that's why it's muddy sounding. This is not your fault and maybe it's not even happening but vents are definitely positioned without much consideration. One could say that they did the same with ZS5/6 but they have more of a flat area there which is close to impossible to fully cover regardless of someone's ear shape.
> 
> This is all just a guess.
> ...


Yes, you're right, I did manage to see them, very poor placement and smallish vents, that's probably why they sound so different from the kz zs6. For some they may sound really good, but they are definitely not as natural as the kz zs6, on the good side of this the treble is not so harsh! I just have to figure out how to keep them from falling off my ears....


----------



## zazaboy (Apr 9, 2018)

@Sebilion I know this a long shot.. but do you consider the kz zs10 an upgrade over kz zs6.. is it worth the upgrade... or shall I skip it if I have kz zs6... what do you think ? do you think its a huge upgrade? 

and how is the treble is it the same brightness or is it brighter? thanks


----------



## Untoten

First impressions with KZ Zs6; they are bright (I think maybe just a little bit too much for me) and deliver accurate punchy bass. I let them burn-in for some time and see what happens. I do have upgraded cable and New Bee tips, looking forward to them as well. So far Im pretty impressed, I think these will beat my sennheiser momentum in-ears - they got really sibilant highs with bigger volume. I got to say, I had a little difficulties to wear these guys but I think Im going to get used to it.


----------



## Sebilion

zazaboy said:


> @Sebilion I know this a long shot.. but do you consider the kz zs10 an upgrade over kz zs6.. is it worth the upgrade... or shall I skip it if I have kz zs6... what do you think ? do you think its a huge upgrade?
> 
> and how is the treble is it the same brightness or is it brighter? thanks


I would consider them an upgrade, but it depends on what kind of signature you prefer. If you like treble and warm signature, go for kz zs6. If you like more natural sound and a bit less treble go for kz zs10. But for me personally the fit is difficult


----------



## Bartig

Sebilion said:


> I would consider them an upgrade, but it depends on what kind of signature you prefer. If you like treble and warm signature, go for kz zs6. If you like more natural sound and a bit less treble go for kz zs10. But for me personally the fit is difficult


Thanks for your first impressions, Sebillion! I will tweak my expectations a bit. Well, fortunately, I also have seven others IEM's coming my way.


----------



## Mdclol

Thanks Seb for your first impressions.

I think I will go for trying the KZ ZSR ($28 on amazon delivered next day) instead of the ZS10. To be honest, I dont even know why I want to buy them as I am perfectly happy with my current IEMs. Hopefully they have rumbling bass with decent mids and clear treble extension. (Sounds like im describing my BGVP DM5s lol)

 I guess I'm just curious how much sound you can get out of a sub $30 triple hybrid vs my FLC8S or LZ-A4.


----------



## Sebilion

One think I want to make everyone aware is that the kz zs10 has amazing instrument separation and vocals, bass is also very strong. Very good for metal music, not so great for warm and treble lovers, I will wait and see if burning will do any difference to the sound. They also respond really well to EQ.


----------



## Sebilion

Mdclol said:


> Thanks Seb for your first impressions.
> 
> I think I will go for trying the KZ ZSR ($28 on amazon delivered next day) instead of the ZS10. To be honest, I dont even know why I want to buy them as I am perfectly happy with my current IEMs. Hopefully they have rumbling bass with decent mids and clear treble extension. (Sounds like im describing my BGVP DM5s lol)
> 
> I guess I'm just curious how much sound you can get out of a sub $30 triple hybrid vs my FLC8S or LZ-A4.


I haven't tried the kz zsr so I can't comment on them, but the kz zs10 sound a little bit like lz a4 red front and black back, of course not as good but really close and I haven't even burned them yet. They are not bad, they are for bass lovers and  people who like wide sound stage and good separation with deep vocals. They may sound a bit muddy at times though and I still have comfort issues. But it's just day one


----------



## Wiljen

Untoten said:


> First impressions with KZ Zs6; they are bright (I think maybe just a little bit too much for me) and deliver accurate punchy bass. I let them burn-in for some time and see what happens. I do have upgraded cable and New Bee tips, looking forward to them as well. So far Im pretty impressed, I think these will beat my sennheiser momentum in-ears - they got really sibilant highs with bigger volume. I got to say, I had a little difficulties to wear these guys but I think Im going to get used to it.



Foams yet?  Give them some time to break in and a good set of foam tips and it usually calms the treble a bit.


----------



## Wiljen

Mdclol said:


> Thanks Seb for your first impressions.
> 
> I think I will go for trying the KZ ZSR ($28 on amazon delivered next day) instead of the ZS10. To be honest, I dont even know why I want to buy them as I am perfectly happy with my current IEMs. Hopefully they have rumbling bass with decent mids and clear treble extension. (Sounds like im describing my BGVP DM5s lol)
> 
> I guess I'm just curious how much sound you can get out of a sub $30 triple hybrid vs my FLC8S or LZ-A4.



Interesting to me that you compare the LZa4 when you have the A5 in your signature -  Do you see the LZA5 as a step backward from the A4?


----------



## DSebastiao

How "punch-y" are they compared to the ZS6?


----------



## ivo001

Left side of my KZ ZS3 from Gearbest ordered 22 december has completely died. Too bad, I really liked them for their fit paired with BT cable during workouts.


----------



## Slater

anindyameister said:


> Just make sure you match R/L on the driver housing with the R/L embossed on the plug



That's not always a surefire way, as sometimes KZ installs the plugs the wrong direction.

The only surefire way is to line up the keys.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> Left side of my KZ ZS3 from Gearbest ordered 22 december has completely died. Too bad, I really liked them for their fit paired with BT cable during workouts.



The batch of ZS3 from that time frame were defective:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/apr...meizu-ep51-23-99.832367/page-75#post-13961425
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/apr...meizu-ep51-23-99.832367/page-83#post-13981998

Gearbest is aware of it, and will take care of it for you. If customer service gives you the runaround, get George involved to get it addressed (as he is definitely aware).


----------



## Superluc

With those first opinions about the ZS10, as the signature is different from the ZS6, it may be now interesting to see comparisons between them and the ZSR. If, versus the ZS6, they have more bass, less treble, bigger soundstage, plastic housing... from that they seem more similar to the ZSR. Maybe they a more a direct upgrade from them.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 9, 2018)

KZ just a reminder for the ZS4:







Also, I'd love to see PVC tubes for the DD and 2pin sockets wired correctly. 

Best regards!


----------



## Viber

Sebilion said:


> Yes, you're right, I did manage to see them, very poor placement and smallish vents, that's probably why they sound so different from the kz zs6. For some they may sound really good, but they are definitely not as natural as the kz zs6, on the good side of this the treble is not so harsh! I just have to figure out how to keep them from falling off my ears....



Damn, i was definitely hoping for them to keep the long nozzles of the ZSR... too bad they came back to the short nozzles.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 9, 2018)

Superluc said:


> With those first opinions about the ZS10, as the signature is different from the ZS6, it may be now interesting to see comparisons between them and the ZSR. If, versus the ZS6, they have more bass, less treble, bigger soundstage, plastic housing... from that they seem more similar to the ZSR. Maybe they a more a direct upgrade from them.



Your observation may not be very far from the truth if the balanced armatures in the ZS10 are simply the ZSR balanced armatures times two.  We know that both the ZSR and the ZS10 share KZ's 10mm dynamic driver and KZ's 30095 BA. If the ZSR midrange BA is KZ's 50060 BA found in the ZS10 then it will be interesting to hear the differences in sound signature between the ZSR and ZS10. Reinforcing the midrange and the tamed treble by doubling the BAs should make them more forward or at the very least the midrange and treble should have more presence. It will be interesting to hear how the more recessed positioning of the BAs changes the presentation. 



 

If the ZSR and ZS10 sound very similar then I'll stick to my earlier assertions that the better choice for the ZS10 would have been the 8mm dynamic driver which would likely give the ZS10 a more refined HDS1 sound signature........maybe. That would be great since the ZSR has given us a more refined HDS3 sound signature. The HDS1 is quite good regardless of price but as is common for KZ IEMs the price-to-performance was off the charts for an $8 in-ear monitor.

HDS1:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bi...ic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver.21143/


----------



## phower

Viber said:


> Damn, i was definitely hoping for them to keep the long nozzles of the ZSR... too bad they came back to the short nozzles.


The length and diameter of the nozzle changes the frequency response. It is not determined for cosmetic reasons.


----------



## C2thew

Makahl said:


> KZ just a reminder for the ZS4:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, the zs3s dont fall off as bad as the zs6 without the lip.  The design of the zs3 is ergonmically perfect for my ears and is one of my favorite kzs to date.l for running.  I do wish I could hear more detail like the zs6s but you dont really need detail when you are running;  just awesome beats and bass to keep you motivated.  That's why the zs4s look very very promising as long as they keep the size and ergonomics the same


----------



## handwander

Some twitter photos for drooling purposes.



>


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 10, 2018)

*Taming the KZ ZS6 treble: first attempt.
*
My Dunu 75 ohm impedance adapter arrived today. It had been described by headflux.de how a higher output impedance alters the frequency response curve.

Be warned: this is NOT a miracle cure.

1. iPhone 5S: the adapter really takes out lots of volume, you have to turn it up to the top...but it does not remove lots of treble. When adding the dragonfly dac/amp, it works a bit better, volume wise.

2. iPhone 5S (80% volume; connected by headphone jack) and Fiio E12 Montblanc amp: to my surprise, there is not enough volume coming out of this powerful amp (much more powerful than the dragonfly), when the adapter is used. Totally useless. This means, the amp's output impedance must be naturally high...but it isn't, it is <0.3 ohm. I am at a loss here.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 10, 2018)

* Taming the KZ ZS6 treble: second attempt.
*
Well, a simple eq...I have never eq-ed before. The only decent eq app I found for the iphone was integrated in the free Onkyo Music Player...my fingers are relatively big for adjusting the curve. Now this works better sound wise. This curve is only tentative, for initial testing purposes.

I am sure, more savvy eq-ers have developed the perfect eq model graph for the ZS6.

Suggestions are welcome!


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> Actually, the zs3s dont fall off as bad as the zs6 without the lip.  The design of the zs3 is ergonmically perfect for my ears and is one of my favorite kzs to date.l for running.  I do wish I could hear more detail like the zs6s but you dont really need detail when you are running;  just awesome beats and bass to keep you motivated.  That's why the zs4s look very very promising as long as they keep the size and ergonomics the same



+1 on this. ZS3 shell = awesomeness.

Patiently been waiting for the ZS4, which should be the sound upgrade the ZS3 always needed - then it will be pretty much perfect for me (ie perfect fit, awesome sound)


----------



## Slater (Apr 10, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *Taming the KZ ZS6 treble: first attempt.
> *
> My Dunu 75 ohm adapter arrived today. It had been described by headflux.de how a higher output impedance alters the frequency response curve.
> 
> Be warned: this is NOT a miracle cure.



Agreed; the impedance adpaters aren't the answer. (a few dBs at most).

Once my new soldering iron comes, I'm going to be experimenting with disabling and/or rewiring the BAs in the ZS6, maybe tinkering with the crossover. I also still need to mess with all of the different nozzle filters (just been too busy latey).

Here's my measurements with the adjustable volume adapter (ie potentiometer) posted a few weeks ago. I tried to volume match each test as close as possible (quick and dirty), but I'm off by a couple 2dB. The point is that (volume matched) there was virtually no difference in the treble region with/without the impedance adapter.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

My red no mic ks10 has been marked as “shipped “according to Ali, altho think seller has just clicked that button as countdowb was running out (I did extend 7 days)

Waiting to see if there is actually any movement now!


----------



## Bartig

Superluc said:


> With those first opinions about the ZS10, as the signature is different from the ZS6, it may be now interesting to see comparisons between them and the ZSR. If, versus the ZS6, they have more bass, less treble, bigger soundstage, plastic housing... from that they seem more similar to the ZSR. Maybe they a more a direct upgrade from them.


These were my thoughts since the first Asian impressions. I expect the ZS10 to sound a lot like the ZSR. Will compare them once they arrive.


----------



## Prim8NChief

Wait, how did you guys get your ZS10s already? It says dispatch 18th of April on Gear Best's website and arrives late April-mid May on Amazon. I'd love to get a hold of a pair of those. Especially after seeing your guys' impressions on them.


----------



## vito45

Superluc said:


> I hope you have plug them correctly...
> 
> Do some tests, for be sure: https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


Thanks for tip.I tried some of them and everything looks fine.

Strangely my head hurts when I am listening to them, like someone is trying to compress brain by hands. After changing to Xiaomis HD Pros 75% of this feeling is lost after few seconds. (Source is FLAC, Fiio K1/Oneplus 5)
(I left them playing music on medium volume for whole night)
Overall after 15 minutes of listening, comparing them to Xiaomis HD Pros. For bass driven music they are ZS5 better. For other things I would say HD Pros are probably better.
In case of Xiaomi HD Pros I have feeling that main part of music is singing and bass are supporting them. In case of ZS5 it is switched, singing supporting bass part of music.


----------



## 424358

Damn, I want to try ZS10, they look like in ear speakers. But ugh they look uncomfortable. The ZS6 and ZS5 are big enough in my ear. :/ ZST pushes the limit. Hope they release something smaller.


----------



## Sebilion

I need to correct myself, today I realised that there are L and R indicators, they are just very hard to see.. With the right EQ the zs10 can get quite punchy! Still can't figure out how to keep them on my ears though


----------



## Sebilion

I only got them quickly because I paid for fast delivery on aliexpress and blackmailed the seller with 1 star review if I don't have them by the date aliexpress stated which was yesterday, the came spot on time


----------



## Sebilion

Sealing is horrible on kz zs10 ... anyone knows good foams that help with sealing? The left earpiece just keeps on falling out and I don't know how to keep it in place, it's so annoying I lose all the bass from the left side


----------



## Slater

Sebilion said:


> Sealing is horrible on kz zs10 ... anyone knows good foams that help with sealing? The left earpiece just keeps on falling out and I don't know how to keep it in place, it's so annoying I lose all the bass from the left side



Try going up to a 1 size larger tip.


----------



## TheVortex

Sebilion said:


> Sealing is horrible on kz zs10 ... anyone knows good foams that help with sealing? The left earpiece just keeps on falling out and I don't know how to keep it in place, it's so annoying I lose all the bass from the left side



I would try the new bee foams as well as they are great for the price.


----------



## CoiL

Or longer stem cone shaped tips... 

Seems like ZS10 beginning isn`t so great as many hoped for. I`m still between white/red ZSR or wait fir ZS4. Just for gift.


----------



## WalterTorino

Sebilion said:


> Sealing is horrible on kz zs10 ... anyone knows good foams that help with sealing? The left earpiece just keeps on falling out and I don't know how to keep it in place, it's so annoying I lose all the bass from the left side


Looks like you have to try a double flange tips.


----------



## Nikostr8

Im a bit thankful that i cancel my zs10 order , they look too big and uncomfy for my ears. Cant wait for zs4 tho, i have the best fit ever with zs3 so im hyped af.


----------



## Viber

Sebilion said:


> I need to correct myself, today I realised that there are L and R indicators, they are just very hard to see.. With the right EQ the zs10 can get quite punchy! Still can't figure out how to keep them on my ears though



Small thing i did with ZS6+ZS5... put silicone wings from ebay between the ear piece and the tip.


----------



## Viber

phower said:


> The length and diameter of the nozzle changes the frequency response. It is not determined for cosmetic reasons.



I know, still wish they would have insisted on it more.


----------



## Vestat

Viber said:


> Small thing i did with ZS6+ZS5... put silicone wings from ebay between the ear piece and the tip.



I really don't get your mod.. That wing is supposed to push on the back part of the ear auricle but in your picture you put so it's pushing in a down direction. Maybe I am missing something but in this case you prevent the original shape of the ZS5/6 to gently "sit" on your auricle.. 
Can you please provide some extra info about your wearing style with this wing?

Thanks


----------



## Viber

Vestat said:


> I really don't get your mod.. That wing is supposed to push on the back part of the ear auricle but in your picture you put so it's pushing in a down direction. Maybe I am missing something but in this case you prevent the original shape of the ZS5/6 to gently "sit" on your auricle..
> Can you please provide some extra info about your wearing style with this wing?
> 
> Thanks



its not adjusted in the pic, maybe it rotated inside the bag.
 The silicone wing tip should point more in the direction of the wire.  I actually need a mirror to do it.   First i squash the foam, then i adjust the wing so it will latch on to my inner ear and then i insert the nozzle to my ear and adjust the wire.


----------



## vladstef

Viber said:


> its not adjusted in the pic, maybe it rotated inside the bag.
> The silicone wing tip should point more in the direction of the wire.  I actually need a mirror to do it.   First i squash the foam, then i adjust the wing so it will latch on to my inner ear and then i insert the nozzle to my ear and adjust the wire.



I could barely fit ZS5 on it's own, this looks like it adds a lot of bulk but I guess it could work for huge ears. Make sure you are not covering front vent on ZS5, it looks like the wing is covering it.


----------



## StalkR

vladstef said:


> I could barely fit ZS5 on it's own, this looks like it adds a lot of bulk but I guess it could work for huge ears. Make sure you are not covering front vent on ZS5, it looks like the wing is covering it.


I'm interested in buying the ZS5 but worried that it would be to big for me as even the ATR barely fits when it came. Does it fits like the ATR?


----------



## Viber

vladstef said:


> I could barely fit ZS5 on it's own, this looks like it adds a lot of bulk but I guess it could work for huge ears. Make sure you are not covering front vent on ZS5, it looks like the wing is covering it.



Are you calling my ears huge? 

It does sit above the vent holes, but it doesnt cover it.   It's hard to tell if it's blocking the holes or not when its on my ears.

I was just offering what has worked for me, i'm not urging anyone to do it.  I dont care.


----------



## vladstef

Viber said:


> Are you calling my ears huge?
> 
> It does sit above the vent holes, but it doesnt cover it.   It's hard to tell if it's blocking the holes or not when its on my ears.
> 
> I was just offering what has worked for me, i'm not urging anyone to do it.  I dont care.



Haha, huge ears are a compliment when talking about IEMs 

I have to say that what you did is creative though.


----------



## Vestat

Viber said:


> its not adjusted in the pic, maybe it rotated inside the bag.
> The silicone wing tip should point more in the direction of the wire. I actually need a mirror to do it. First i squash the foam, then i adjust the wing so it will latch on to my inner ear and then i insert the nozzle to my ear and adjust the wire.



Ok that makes sense now. I thought it was already in the right position.



StalkR said:


> I'm interested in buying the ZS5 but worried that it would be to big for me as even the ATR barely fits when it came. Does it fits like the ATR?



IMO, ZS6 is not that big as it looks like in some pictures. I was also afraid even if I have really big ears, but once I got it in my hands, I was actually surprised by its size. It's definitely smaller than what I was expecting.
It's still not a small earpiece, but not that big.


----------



## Vestat

Viber said:


> its not adjusted in the pic, maybe it rotated inside the bag.
> The silicone wing tip should point more in the direction of the wire. I actually need a mirror to do it. First i squash the foam, then i adjust the wing so it will latch on to my inner ear and then i insert the nozzle to my ear and adjust the wire.



BTW, amazing picture with the iem in front of the screen... that's pritty cool forum skills


----------



## Viber

Vestat said:


> BTW, amazing picture with the iem in front of the screen... that's pritty cool forum skills



Well, im not uploading a photo of *my own *ear to the internet for all the perverts to see!


----------



## StalkR

Vestat said:


> IMO, ZS6 is not that big as it looks like in some pictures. I was also afraid even if I have really big ears, but once I got it in my hands, I was actually surprised by its size. It's definitely smaller than what I was expecting.
> It's still not a small earpiece, but not that big.


Noted, thanks. My ATR were a pain to wear before tip rolling and finding out the Raduis IEM tips fits best.
I also discovered that the fit were better if the right tip is 1 size bigger, does anybody also experience this?


----------



## Vestat

StalkR said:


> Noted, thanks. My ATR were a pain to wear before tip rolling and finding out the Raduis IEM tips fits best.
> I also discovered that the fit were better if the right tip is 1 size bigger, does anybody also experience this?



I believe this is very personal.. I decided to buy the ostry set because of the many reviews but found out they are completely useless to me.. they are also useless in term of sound quality considering they do not lighten the higher frequencies but IMO they just mud the lower ones. probably not compatible with the ZS6 I tried on.
The star tips provided with KZ earbuds are beautiful for some, garbage for me.
It's your job to understand the proper fit for you and if you like the right bigger than the left, that's your go to setup.


----------



## Slater

Vestat said:


> I believe this is very personal.. I decided to buy the ostry set because of the many reviews but found out they are completely useless to me.. they are also useless in term of sound quality considering they do not lighten the higher frequencies but IMO they just mud the lower ones. probably not compatible with the ZS6 I tried on.
> The star tips provided with KZ earbuds are beautiful for some, garbage for me.
> It's your job to understand the proper fit for you and if you like the right bigger than the left, that's your go to setup.



Which model Ostrys did you go with?


----------



## Bartig

StalkR said:


> I'm interested in buying the ZS5 but worried that it would be to big for me as even the ATR barely fits when it came. Does it fits like the ATR?


You will likely have a fitting problem with the ZS5 then.


----------



## WildSeven

Sebilion said:


> Sealing is horrible on kz zs10 ... anyone knows good foams that help with sealing? The left earpiece just keeps on falling out and I don't know how to keep it in place, it's so annoying I lose all the bass from the left side


Looks like you have problem with the piece going deeper due to the size, try SpinFit tips, it actually goes deeper and seals much better.
I hardly used comply foam due to the fact that they irritates my inner ear skin and I had to keep pulling them out, they seal great though.


----------



## CoiL

Bartig said:


> You will likely have a fitting problem with the ZS5 then.


I don`t think so. ATR/ATE are noticeably larger (especially the part of shell towards inner ear) with longer nozzle.
ZS5v1 is one of my smallest over-ears with that kind of shape actually but our ears anatomy differ.


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Or longer stem cone shaped tips...
> 
> Seems like ZS10 beginning isn`t so great as many hoped for. I`m still between white/red ZSR or wait fir ZS4. Just for gift.



And it could get worst! Just wait until someone opens it and finds the mess inside. I know from reputable sources that the ZS10's BAs are made from rotten toothpicks, broken dreams and fingernails on chalkboards, and they should sound terribly piercing. They are all connected in series using a cockroach's feet as a dividing resistor. Their cable is so capacitive you can charge a truck's battery with it. 
When this comes to public, their price should come down to 12,89 USD.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 10, 2018)

C2thew said:


> Actually, the zs3s dont fall off as bad as the zs6 without the lip.  The design of the zs3 is ergonmically perfect for my ears and is one of my favorite kzs to date.l for running.  I do wish I could hear more detail like the zs6s but you dont really need detail when you are running;  just awesome beats and bass to keep you motivated.  That's why the zs4s look very very promising as long as they keep the size and ergonomics the same



Well, comfort-wise ZS3 is amazing and using the stock ear tip there's no problem at all. My major problem is when I'm trying other tips (Tennmak Turbo, Starlines, JVC spiral dot) they don't get a good grip thus ending up stuck in my ears if they manage to fix that adding a lip would be perfect.


----------



## snip3r77

CoiL said:


> Or longer stem cone shaped tips...
> 
> Seems like ZS10 beginning isn`t so great as many hoped for. I`m still between white/red ZSR or wait fir ZS4. Just for gift.



Wait at the sidelines best . Many brands that you can spend on , especially those tried and verified by guys here


----------



## Vestat

Slater said:


> Which model Ostrys did you go with?



I got the complete set from amazon for around 15 bucks.. Kind of confident when decided to buy them!
The large size is nowhere close to a good fit for my ear canal, all of them.
By the way, pushing the large ostry inside my ear canal I could manage to get some kind of sealing so I could feel the basses.. In my opinion very muddy bass freq and still a lot of sibilance around 8-10 khz.
Maybe a bit better the medium frequencies but who cares when highs are whistling and basses are covering everything.
I tested the red (200) and black (300) and got almost the same result.
As a disclaimer I can say there is a chance that gently pushing the ZS6 in my ear canal may interfere with the result. But I still believe you can't get so much from them combined with the ZS6.

Actually, the best solution I found to fix the highs sibilance is to use the EQ of my media player (power amp on android xiaomi phone.. nothing special but that's what I have  ).
The EQ settings is rising the basses (yeah.. that's my addiction..) and lower the 8k slider by 25% and rise the 4k slider by 25%.
May look weird but I find that the sibilance is lowering noticeably without losing much detail.
here the screenshot:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/k2VRMsNuwS0LZy4X2

It's definitely not the best option, it's actually cutting out some frequencies, but it makes my personal listening experience a bit better and I am just sharing with you in case it may help. yup.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 10, 2018)

Sebilion said:


> Sealing is horrible on kz zs10 ... anyone knows good foams that help with sealing? The left earpiece just keeps on falling out and I don't know how to keep it in place, it's so annoying I lose all the bass from the left side



I've had this sort of problem on KZ ZST using stock eartips, but after using Tennmak Turbos they fit like a custom and those are rather comfortable. I'd give it a try.


----------



## WalterTorino

Mellowship said:


> And it could get worst! Just wait until someone opens it and finds the mess inside. I know from reputable sources that the ZS10's BAs are made from rotten toothpicks, broken dreams and fingernails on chalkboards, and they should sound terribly piercing. They are all connected in series using a cockroach's feet as a dividing resistor. Their cable is so capacitive you can charge a truck's battery with it.
> When this comes to public, their price should come down to 12,89 USD.


I knew that!


----------



## groucho69

Viber said:


> Well, im not uploading a photo of *my own *ear to the internet for all the perverts to see!



(¯`v´¯) 
`·.¸.·´ 
¸.·´¸.·¨) ¸.·¨) 
(¸.·´ (¸.·´ (¸.·¨¯`♥


----------



## BlackBlitz

I really like my KZ ZST Candy, it actually is my first IEM into these audio foray that got me hooked. With the price they are offering, I think it is hands down one of the best cheapest IEM I have ever encountered


----------



## Mellowship

WalterTorino said:


> I knew that!


Everybody knows, but you don't share! Y'all ignore the elephant in the room. And then, when us peasants buy a lot of subpar KZ iems, they never stand to our expectations! We demand the ugly truth!


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Saoshyant

I want to believe.


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 10, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> Everybody knows, but you don't share! Y'all ignore the elephant in the room. And then, when us peasants buy a lot of subpar KZ iems, they never stand to our expectations! We demand the ugly truth!


The ugly truth is that we're all just pieces of meat who have to cherish and appease our inner-childs with a good sounding iems. And KZ is the most adequate way to do it in case of price/quality ratio...
And in fact, no matter what they are made of.


----------



## hiflofi

Wondering, is there a way to EQ so that the ZS6/ZST can have a "neutral sound" like the UERM? Or is that largely impossible?


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


>



In the loudest voice I can muster "I CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH" LOL It's all relative gentlemen and IMHO the Z  series KZ iem's are all worthy of what KZ ask for them

@DocHoliday I am enjoying the Urban's and find them to be very entertaining and also a good buy for the price, for me they don't excel any any category but with that said they don't disappoint eitherSorry for the delayed response but some reason my employer expects me to work, the nerve right!


----------



## Sebilion

Slater said:


> Try going up to a 1 size larger tip.


This helped a lot! Still not very good but now it's acceptable! The only thing I don't like on the kz zs10 is the female vocals, they sound really bad.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 10, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Wondering, is there a way to EQ so that the ZS6/ZST can have a "neutral sound" like the UERM? Or is that largely impossible?



You can try to mimic the frequency curve but it's almost impossible to get the UERM sound due to different spl, drivers, damping, distortion and etc...

Using those graphics: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-fr-measurement-database-339-iems-measured.830062/






You can try to add some dBs around to mid-bass area using a low Q factor and cutting few dBs at 2-4 kHz area. Using Equalizer APO should be rather easy to get something close to that.


----------



## Wiljen

hiflofi said:


> Wondering, is there a way to EQ so that the ZS6/ZST can have a "neutral sound" like the UERM? Or is that largely impossible?



Largely impossible as adjusting a frequency on an EQ either raises or lowers frequencies around it too and thus you never get exactly what you want.  You cant move the 200Hz down 6db without pulling 100Hz and 300Hz down by 3 or 4db in the process.  Drivers just don't work in a way that allows complete isolation of every frequency.


----------



## Sebilion

Vestat said:


> I believe this is very personal.. I decided to buy the ostry set because of the many reviews but found out they are completely useless to me.. they are also useless in term of sound quality considering they do not lighten the higher frequencies but IMO they just mud the lower ones. probably not compatible with the ZS6 I tried on.
> The star tips provided with KZ earbuds are beautiful for some, garbage for me.
> It's your job to understand the proper fit for you and if you like the right bigger than the left, that's your go to setup.


I tried ostry 200 and 300 and both are horrible in my personal opinion, they just mud the sound and don't help with anything. Someone else might like them, they are just not my cup of tea


----------



## phower

Vestat said:


> The EQ settings is rising the basses (yeah.. that's my addiction..) and lower the 8k slider by 25% and rise the 4k slider by 25%.
> May look weird but I find that the sibilance is lowering noticeably without losing much detail.
> here the screenshot:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/k2VRMsNuwS0LZy4X2
> ...



https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.ideariboso.capriccio
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teac.jp.musicplayer

Both the above Android players have parametric equalizer and allow you to equalize precisely. Capriccio also has bs2b filter for cross-feed.


----------



## friuns

Sebilion said:


> I tried ostry 200 and 300 and both are horrible in my personal opinion, they just mud the sound and don't help with anything. Someone else might like them, they are just not my cup of tea


totaly agree also was waste of money for me


----------



## Vestat

phower said:


> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.ideariboso.capriccio
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teac.jp.musicplayer
> 
> Both the above Android players have parametric equalizer and allow you to equalize precisely. Capriccio also has bs2b filter for cross-feed.




Thanks mate, Capriccio is an amazing tool to EQ the sound even if not exactly user friendly. much more precise than the poweramp one. I'll try it out.


----------



## Vestat

Sebilion said:


> I tried ostry 200 and 300 and both are horrible in my personal opinion, they just mud the sound and don't help with anything. Someone else might like them, they are just not my cup of tea



I still have the possibility to send it back to amazon. I think I'm going to try out some better foam tips as suggested before.
I have new bee L tips, Inairs Air2 L and Sennheiser CX3 silicone tips in my chart ready to ship out.
Hopefully this will be the last time I buy something to make iems fit my ears.
This cheap KZ are getting expensive.


----------



## CoiL

Wiljen said:


> Largely impossible as adjusting a frequency on an EQ either raises or lowers frequencies around it too and thus you never get exactly what you want.  You cant move the 200Hz down 6db without pulling 100Hz and 300Hz down by 3 or 4db in the process.  Drivers just don't work in a way that allows complete isolation of every frequency.


That`s one of reasons I never use EQ (not that its bad). I like to keep every link in chain untouched by software processing as much as possible.


----------



## DocHoliday

phower said:


> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.ideariboso.capriccio
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teac.jp.musicplayer
> 
> Both the above Android players have parametric equalizer and allow you to equalize precisely. Capriccio also has bs2b filter for cross-feed.






Wiljen said:


> Largely impossible as adjusting a frequency on an EQ either raises or lowers frequencies around it too and thus you never get exactly what you want. You cant move the 200Hz down 6db without pulling 100Hz and 300Hz down by 3 or 4db in the process. Drivers just don't work in a way that allows complete isolation of every frequency.



My go-to for android, but Wiljen's comments hit the nail on the head which is why I don't typically use EQing at all. One of the reasons I own dozens of IEMs is to avoid using an EQ at all costs. 

Just personal preference.....not a wrong or right issue.


----------



## phower

CoiL said:


> That`s one of reasons I never use EQ (not that its bad). I like to keep every link in chain untouched by software processing as much as possible.



I think there is a unwanted aversion towards EQ. All music is heavily equalized during the mixing and mastering stages. No music is ever un equalized. Even in live performance, the sounds from individual mics are equalized.


----------



## HungryPanda

In that respect music is already equalized and mastered before it gets to the listeners ears


----------



## paulindss (Apr 10, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> In that respect music is already equalized and mastered before it gets to the listeners ears



I use equalizer ocasionaly to tweak tracks that don't match the signature of my iem's. I think it is valid. Not to tweak iem's, but to tweak the music for a better experience with the iem. I.e musics with too much energy in treble... This is easy when you listen to music in albums, and not in Shuffle.


----------



## phower (Apr 10, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Largely impossible as adjusting a frequency on an EQ either raises or lowers frequencies around it too and thus you never get exactly what you want.  You cant move the 200Hz down 6db without pulling 100Hz and 300Hz down by 3 or 4db in the process.  Drivers just don't work in a way that allows complete isolation of every frequency.



A parametric equalizer with a high Q value allows you to achieve that. The settings in the image attached is 200Hz down 6dB. 100 Hz and 300Hz are affected barely. May be around 0.1 dB.

From research, we know that it takes 0.5 to 1 dB change to be audible under ideal conditions. For any musical content, that change has to be atleast 1dB. So, a parametric equalizer allows you to do exactly what you are afraid of.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Stupid question time:

Trying to find a short (40cm) cable to use with KZ5,or KZ10 but all the ones I can find are 0.78mm.

Would this fit? I thought kz5 was 0.75mm but some places say 0.78mm in description.

Currently considering this:

http://s.aliexpress.com/zqYZzMnE


----------



## Vestat

CoiL said:


> That`s one of reasons I never use EQ (not that its bad). I like to keep every link in chain untouched by software processing as much as possible.





DocHoliday said:


> My go-to for android, but Wiljen's comments hit the nail on the head which is why I don't typically use EQing at all. One of the reasons I own dozens of IEMs is to avoid using an EQ at all costs.





phower said:


> I think there is a unwanted aversion towards EQ. All music is heavily equalized during the mixing and mastering stages. No music is ever un equalized. Even in live performance, the sounds from individual mics are equalized.





HungryPanda said:


> In that respect music is already equalized and mastered before it gets to the listeners ears



I'm not a professional but I've been in various recording studios during the recording and mixing process.
Everybody has his own and personal way of listening music, they equalize their tracks depending on personal taste and, more important, depending on the gear they are using at that time.
This means that the same band, recording the same songs, in two different studios can achieve two very different results.
In addition to this, the purpose of this whole forum is to understand and share all the often minimal differences between different gears and ears.
This is the reason why, in my opinion, the EQ has to be seen as one of the many aspect of music. Nobody can avoid it because is part of the music itself, since the very beginning.
Another story is the abuse of it. but nobody is filling his ears with liquid silicone to get real 100% noise isolation. am I right?


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Apr 10, 2018)

phower said:


> A parametric equalizer with a high Q value allows you to achieve that. The settings in the image attached is 200Hz down 6dB. 100 Hz and 300Hz are affected barely. May be around 0.1 dB.
> 
> From research, we know that it takes 0.5 to 1 dB change to be audible under ideal conditions. For any musical content, that change has to be atleast 1dB. So, a parametric equalizer allows you to do exactly what you are afraid of.


phower is right on.... 
I use parametric EQ all the time in the studio and in my Rockbox'd Xduoo X3. A higher Q value does make your adjustments more specific and focused on a narrow frequency range. One note tho... Higher Q values (narrow band) can get really artificial sounding when making large, (several dB's) of adjustment. Think wah wah pedal for guitar. It is essentially a hi Q adjustment (narrow band) with a large boost. The greater the cut or boost, the lower the q value needed to keep it musical sounding. I don't feel any remorse for using eq to alter the mix. Just keep it in moderation and enjoy.


----------



## Wiljen

phower said:


> A parametric equalizer with a high Q value allows you to achieve that. The settings in the image attached is 200Hz down 6dB. 100 Hz and 300Hz are affected barely. May be around 0.1 dB.
> 
> From research, we know that it takes 0.5 to 1 dB change to be audible under ideal conditions. For any musical content, that change has to be atleast 1dB. So, a parametric equalizer allows you to do exactly what you are afraid of.



In theory you are absolutely correct, now measure the output and see what the reality is.  No eq can perfectly correct a single frequency without impacting things on either side of it and even parametrics would have to know the driver type and specs to be able to fully optimize the process to get the best results.   Rarely does the in the wild result match up to the lab result let alone the theoretical result which is why our responses differ.


----------



## Ynot1 (Apr 10, 2018)

Eq or no eq that is your perogative. Just don't use it in a review without proper disclosure. Be nice.


----------



## phower

Wiljen said:


> In theory you are absolutely correct, now measure the output and see what the reality is.  No eq can perfectly correct a single frequency without impacting things on either side of it and even parametrics would have to know the driver type and specs to be able to fully optimize the process to get the best results.   Rarely does the in the wild result match up to the lab result let alone the theoretical result which is why our responses differ.


Let me see whether I can run a linear sweep through this eq I just posted and then capture through my PC soundcard. I can probably analyze the resulting FR through audacity or sox. I don't expect to see a major changes around the centre frequency.

Will do it when I find some time.


----------



## Wiljen

phower said:


> Let me see whether I can run a linear sweep through this eq I just posted and then capture through my PC soundcard. I can probably analyze the resulting FR through audacity or sox. I don't expect to see a major changes around the centre frequency.
> 
> Will do it when I find some time.



I have no doubt the high Q para will do better than other designs, but I would bet it is still 50-100Hz wide on the band it cuts or boosts and will be better or worse depending on the driver type in play.  Dynamics seem to react better low frequency BA drivers to EQ as the entire BA seems to want to shift with the adjustment.


----------



## riffrafff

phower said:


> I think there is a unwanted aversion towards EQ. All music is heavily equalized during the mixing and mastering stages. No music is ever un equalized. Even in live performance, the sounds from individual mics are equalized.



Possibly an aversion to (post) digital EQ?   I absolutely luvvve my Schiit Audio Loki Mini (analog).


----------



## Otto Motor

If no eq, how else to make the treble of the ZS6 tolerable? Narrowing tip openings, micropore/transpore tape on nozzle, or impedance adapters...none of which work 100%.

The eq settings can be saved for individual iems.


----------



## kukkurovaca

IEM sound is dependent on so many things (including anatomy!) that it seems wild to dismiss EQ, especially with chi-fi where there may be more QC/sample variation than at higher-priced market segments.

I mean, I can understand preferring to buy things that don't require EQ for you to enjoy them (it's certainly a lot less fuss), but when you can't try before you buy, sometimes you end up with stuff that performs well in general but has a frequency response that doesn't quite work for you.


----------



## snip3r77

Otto Motor said:


> If no eq, how else to make the treble of the ZS6 tolerable? Narrowing tip openings, micropore/transpore tape on nozzle, or impedance adapters...none of which work 100%.
> 
> The eq settings can be saved for individual iems.


don't buy zx products .


----------



## MDH12AX7

Wiljen said:


> In theory you are absolutely correct, now measure the output and see what the reality is.  No eq can perfectly correct a single frequency without impacting things on either side of it and even parametrics would have to know the driver type and specs to be able to fully optimize the process to get the best results.   Rarely does the in the wild result match up to the lab result let alone the theoretical result which is why our responses differ.


You are correct. It is never going to affect only 1 frequency. But.... You would never want it that specific anyway. No detail or artifact or flaw you hear is ever only one frequency. It is an amalgam of frequencies harmonics, and distortion. Even if it could be that specific, it would be corrupted by amplifiers, drivers, and mostly by our highly imperfect ears. Some of us prefer to eq and some not. It's not an exact science, even in a perfect studio environment. If you can make it sound better To YOUR Ear, then it is better. I like this forum. We learn from each other. It's all good.


----------



## paulindss (Apr 10, 2018)

Anyone here Would be capable of translating these image ? I'm really curious to know what it is about. Seems like a description of the developers.



Hmmmmm, i was happy in having ordered the blue one.


----------



## Wiljen

MDH12AX7 said:


> You are correct. It is never going to affect only 1 frequency. But.... You would never want it that specific anyway. No detail or artifact or flaw you hear is ever only one frequency. It is an amalgam of frequencies harmonics, and distortion. Even if it could be that specific, it would be corrupted by amplifiers, drivers, and mostly by our highly imperfect ears. Some of us prefer to eq and some not. It's not an exact science, even in a perfect studio environment. If you can make it sound better To YOUR Ear, then it is better. I like this forum. We learn from each other. It's all good.



I wasn't suggesting not to ever use EQ, a couple of others brought that up.  I do use EQ to enhance some of my stuff.  My purpose was to suggest that you cannot take a warm/dark iem, and turn it into a bright iem by using EQ.  While you can make small adjustments to improve sound, you cannot go beyond those small changes and get acceptable results.


----------



## riffrafff

Wiljen said:


> I wasn't suggesting not to ever use EQ, a couple of others brought that up.  I do use EQ to enhance some of my stuff.  My purpose was to suggest that you cannot take a warm/dark iem, and turn it into a bright iem by using EQ.  While you can make small adjustments to improve sound, you cannot go beyond those small changes and get acceptable results.



Agreed.  There's no substitute for quality sound (and gear).  But minor, personal tweaks are fine, IMHO.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Wiljen said:


> I wasn't suggesting not to ever use EQ, a couple of others brought that up.  I do use EQ to enhance some of my stuff.  My purpose was to suggest that you cannot take a warm/dark iem, and turn it into a bright iem by using EQ.  While you can make small adjustments to improve sound, you cannot go beyond those small changes and get acceptable results.



Well said. I agree.


----------



## MDH12AX7

If KZ would only make a more comfortable but still metal version of the ZS6 I would love it. I really enjoy the ZS6 with the treble dialed back a few dB's. I especially like the detail in the mids. I love the way crunchy guitars sound. But dang! I have sanded these down, Instaled longer tips and o-ring spacers. It sounds great for the 30 minutes I can stand to wear it until they get uncomfortable.


----------



## Slater

snip3r77 said:


> don't buy zx products .



In a KZ-dedicated thread? That's like going to a Corvette forum and telling people not to buy Corvettes.

KZs aren't perfect, but name me 1 thing that is.


----------



## maxxevv

paulindss said:


> Anyone here Would be capable of translating these image ? I'm really curious to know what it is about. Seems like a description of the developers.
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm, i was happy in having ordered the blue one.



Its just some tribute to the leads in the various aspects of the ZS10 development.  The Industrial Designer , Sound Engineer / Electrical Engineer.  

Basically to say that there was a dedicated team who worked hard for the product's development, not a random 'parts bin compilation' product.


----------



## Slater

MDH12AX7 said:


> If KZ would only make a more comfortable but still metal version of the ZS6 I would love it. I really enjoy the ZS6 with the treble dialed back a few dB's. I especially like the detail in the mids. I love the way crunchy guitars sound. But dang! I have sanded these down, Instaled longer tips and o-ring spacers. It sounds great for the 30 minutes I can stand to wear it until they get uncomfortable.



I'm guessing that's the intention with this:


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> I'm guessing that's the intention with this:


That's what I thought too when I saw that pic. A ZS6 that might actually be comfortable. I'm just worried that the reduced internal volume of the body will make the high frequency crossover-less BAs sound even more shrill. That's why I'm hoping that the ZS10 will be a hit and inspire KZ to use crossovers more in their design.


----------



## Makahl

paulindss said:


> Anyone here Would be capable of translating these image ? I'm really curious to know what it is about. Seems like a description of the developers.
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm, i was happy in having ordered the blue one.



I can't help but I think the Google translate for Android can translate pictures into something understandable at least.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The first half sentence says "ZS10 is out," i think.

I can't read the rest so that's as far as I can go, haha.


----------



## Strat Rider

MDH12AX7 said:


> If KZ would only make a more comfortable but still metal version of the ZS6 I would love it. I really enjoy the ZS6 with the treble dialed back a few dB's. I especially like the detail in the mids. I love the way crunchy guitars sound. But dang! I have sanded these down, Instaled longer tips and o-ring spacers. It sounds great for the 30 minutes I can stand to wear it until they get uncomfortable.



Personally I find all of the custom style KZ's in my inventory take a bit of tip rolling, fitting and fidgeting to find the comfort zone.

Some people mention brain burn in, I think ear burn in for lack of a better term, is real also.

In my melon, the ZSR is a tough one. Not sure if I have a calloused spot in my ears that the protrusion finally nestled in to, however many people smartier than me have said "there is no pleasure without some pain".

 I actually maybe one of the only sicko fans that find the ZS6 comfortable out of the box with starlines.


----------



## DocHoliday

paulindss said:


> Anyone here Would be capable of translating these image ? I'm really curious to know what it is about. Seems like a description of the developers.
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm, i was happy in having ordered the blue one.




I can translate that for you, haha.


----------



## Slater (Apr 11, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I can translate that for you, haha.



So, basically a bunch of non-sensical Chinglish gibberish.


----------



## phower

Slater said:


> So, basically a bunch of non-sensical Chinglish gibberish.


From what I know, they were working for Audio Technica before starting the KZ company.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Sorry for another custom cable related question.

Is the UE 0.75mm cable connector the same as the KZ 0.75mm one?


----------



## CoiL (Apr 11, 2018)

phower said:


> I think there is a unwanted aversion towards EQ. *All music is heavily equalized during the mixing and mastering stages. No music is ever un equalized.* Even in live performance, the sounds from individual mics are equalized.


And why should I then use my own EQ additional to that? It`s job done by professionals usually and why should I over-EQ original audio that came from studio once more?
I wish to get result I hear close as possible to made/processed in studio.
I didn`t say EQ is bad and noone should use it. Yes EQ can help but better the reproduction gear is, the less EQ need there should be, in my practice.
Everything further from music makers fingers/voice/instrument is processed anyway some way. Any additional "processing" by end-user is unwanted as it is purely additional subjective thing if done improperly.
Where EQ helps, is Your audiologists hearing response curve - You can adjust Your gear according to that using FR measuring tools. But do many of us even have been @ audiologist for hearing response graphs? Not to mention properly calibrated FR measuring tools?
I`m not and I wont probably do those things as I have good hearing and I know my sensitive region. I know which IEM/headphone to get by their available FR graphs to "avoid" and relieve exessive sensitive regions.
Of course, If one uses EQ to get that issue "solved", it is similar thing but like it was mentioned EQ affects also other nearby FR. I like to not "touch" any nearby FR as there are already hardware and software related processing before that and after audio exits studio. I rather get into hardware tuning (like I did with DX50) to get more cleaner and accurate result - but even that is affected by subjective things - hearing response and personal preference.

IMHO, It is all purely preference and subjective thing with lot of other factors in play (DAC chip, AMP chip, software processing, tip selection and fit, hearing response etc.).
I underlined software because most of us are unaware how much software processing that affects sound we hear is actually going on under the hoods of nowdays DAPs, smartphones, wireless/streaming etc. That`s why I also use modified software and only 1 file type (FLAC) with my DX50, to keep it more "unprocessed".

But EQ is lot easier for most users to get their subjective end-result they like and I suggest to use EQ for sure if one isn`t "geek" like me ;D

JMHSO


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 11, 2018)

phower said:


> From what I know, they were working for Audio Technica before starting the KZ company.


KZ was founded by two guys - one of them (Keith Yue)  is an ex-engineer of A-T (China) and the other one (Zen Li) is a musician (classical music).


----------



## nxnje

Hello guys
I have some little euros (3-4 euros) to get a freakin cheap iem.
Atm i wad looking on aliexpress and found there are moreblue dual driver headphones for like 3 dollars and some many others from qkz like the c6 and so on, and edr1 by kz.
Do u know some of these and how they sound?
I have a pair of memt x5 gen.2 and i like em a lot but i really wanna expand my collection


----------



## Bartig

nxnje said:


> Hello guys
> I have some little euros (3-4 euros) to get a freakin cheap iem.
> Atm i wad looking on aliexpress and found there are moreblue dual driver headphones for like 3 dollars and some many others from qkz like the c6 and so on, and edr1 by kz.
> Do u know some of these and how they sound?
> I have a pair of memt x5 gen.2 and i like em a lot but i really wanna expand my collection


The UiiSii HM7 is a nice option. It has a smooth yet detailed and uplifting sound signature.


----------



## Podster

riffrafff said:


> Agreed.  There's no substitute for quality sound (and gear).  But minor, personal tweaks are fine, IMHO.



I'm with Riff on this one as not all engineers are great at setting EQ and sometimes you have to set some to counter balance their attempt! Especially with KZ having treble spikes (for many but not a treble lover like me) so EQ is a must in some instances IMO. (I know Coil may not agree) and I'm also good with that as we each have our own preferences.

I've also never experienced much of a fit issue with my ZS6's/5's/ZST's but I do where all my cables over ear sans idiot wires which I generally surgically remove upon arrival (I'm with Strat, you just about have to work through the usual's with all iem's, tip rolling, sometimes extension cuffs and finding that right angle, insertion and resting point). As always this is just one listeners opinions so no offense to anyone else in theirs because the key word is and always has be subjectivity To me as long as you are jamming on tunes on the move you are a club member I have to compare this thread to a bullet train, seems it was four pages back just yesterday afternoon Sorry guys I just have to have a photo now and then!!! 



 
That Gray ZS5V1 on the end now residing at Doc's house


----------



## surfacecube

Hi guys, I need some help. I looove my ZS5v1 even if the mids could be a bit more precise and less muddy, the only problem that I have with them is their design. They just dont fit my ears, tried everything. Do you guys have any recommendations for IEMs that perform similarly with detachable cables, and a regular/common in ear design ? 

I already have the UiiSii HM7 proposed in the post above mine, they're not bad but obviously dont come any close to the ZS5v1, you only need to hear the soundstage difference...  Thanks in advance !


----------



## paulindss

One of the main reasons why i bought zs10 was the pre-sale price and the upgraded cable on the First units. I Hope that my iem arrive with the Nice cable. Only downside being the memory wire.


----------



## Podster

paulindss said:


> One of the main reasons why i bought zs10 was the pre-sale price and the upgraded cable on the First units. I Hope that my iem arrive with the Nice cable. Only downside being the memory wire.



Congrats and that M-Wire is easily remedied (I hope you get the upgrade wire as well)


----------



## phower (Apr 11, 2018)

CoiL said:


> And why should I then use my own EQ additional to that? It`s job done by professionals usually and why should I over-EQ original audio that came from studio once more?



There is a need to EQ again because a headphone/IEM could be equalized by the designers for

Free field
Diffuse field
Equal loudness contour curve(AKA v-shaped)

Or something in between the above 3
If you are young and your headphone is equalized for free field, you might find the treble piercing like in ZS6. For older people or for those with hearing loss, it might be ok.
If it is diffuse field equalized and you are old(age related hearing loss is natural), then you will find it dark and veiled.
If it is equalized to equal loudness, it will sound good at low volumes. But, at higher volumes, it will be piercing.

So, there is an acute need to equalize depending the headphone one uses unless one find its already good. But,* one should not stop equalizing based on the false beiief that it is not pure or that distorts the sound.*


----------



## Wiljen

paulindss said:


> One of the main reasons why i bought zs10 was the pre-sale price and the upgraded cable on the First units. I Hope that my iem arrive with the Nice cable. Only downside being the memory wire.



I usually take an Xacto knife and do a quick surgery to remove the memory wire.


----------



## paulindss

Wiljen said:


> I usually take an Xacto knife and do a quick surgery to remove the memory wire.



I did that in one cable. And almost cut everything. But It went well.


----------



## Vestat

phower said:


> one should not stop equalizing based on the false beiief that it is not pure or that distorts the sound.



Definitely agree.



Wiljen said:


> I usually take an Xacto knife and do a quick surgery to remove the memory wire.





paulindss said:


> I did that in one cable. And almost cut everything. But It went well.



What's wrong with the memory wire? just personal taste or there may be some improvement?
thanks in advance


----------



## paulindss

Vestat said:


> Definitely agree.
> 
> 
> What's wrong with the memory wire? just personal taste or there may be some improvement?
> thanks in advance



It's just personal taste. The KZ memory wire bother's some people.


----------



## archy121

Looking forward to kzs10 v ibasso it01 comparisons. 

Was going to pull trigger on the it01 but will wait now.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 11, 2018)

Just received yet another pair of EDR1. They sound and look identical to my older pair without mic...even without break-in . I just replaced the red nylon screens with metal to emphasize the mids (in both).

And they did not come in any box, be it blue or white...AE seller just sent them in a baggie, and with the old pre-starline tips included. I'd like to see the new design in comparison, Slater.

Anyway, here it is once again, your classic $5 miracle. A good example of substance over style. Sound just great and beats the praised Soundmagic E10C at $50!


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> Just received yet another pair of EDR1. They sound and look identical to my older pair without mic...even without break-in .


Is ED special edition same as EDR1? From the audiobudget's FR curves, the EDR1, EDR2 and ED2 are same except cosmetic differences? Anyways, the FR curves are very nice. Almost on target. It is another example that you don't need multi-BA to reproduce good sound.


----------



## Wiljen

Vestat said:


> Definitely agree.
> What's wrong with the memory wire? just personal taste or there may be some improvement?
> thanks in advance



Entirely a preference thing.  With Glasses the memory wire can be rather uncomfortable.


----------



## Sebilion

Just tried the kz zs10 on my new nokia 8 with a hifi amp I bought from amazon. I have to admit the sound is much better than with the htc 10 and the amp. The vocals are much better and they are less muddy with an amazing bass. It's amazing how changing the source can change the sound a lot. Didn't expect such a good performance from nokia 8. I am impressed!


----------



## durwood

paulindss said:


> It's just personal taste. The KZ memory wire bother's some people.



I was thinking about this, since many believe KZ reads this thread I would suggest instead of memory wire I prefer or like an option for the pre-formed clear tubing that shapes the wire instead. I don't know if anyone else likes that or not, but I find it great on the UiiSii CM5 for an example of what I am talking about. I don't know if it has a real name to better explain it. I wear glasses and find it much easier to work with.


----------



## paulindss

durwood said:


> I was thinking about this, since many believe KZ reads this thread I would suggest instead of memory wire I prefer or like an option for the pre-formed clear tubing that shapes the wire instead. I don't know if anyone else likes that or not, but I find it great on the UiiSii CM5 for an example of what I am talking about. I don't know if it has a real name to better explain it. I wear glasses and find it much easier to work with.


 
Oh yes, these are way more confortable. But its a mess to tangle with wires. My brainwavz has a cable like that. I also prefer it to the memory wire on kz.


----------



## Otto Motor

phower said:


> Is ED special edition same as EDR1? From the audiobudget's FR curves, the EDR1, EDR2 and ED2 are same except cosmetic differences? Anyways, the FR curves are very nice. Almost on target. It is another example that you don't need multi-BA to reproduce good sound.


Looks like it. It appears to me the name "special edition" is made up by the seller. And the housing is likely not gold-plated either as claimed. Not for $5. Too good to be true .


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> Looks like it. It appears to me the name "special edition" is made up by the seller. And the housing is likely not gold-plated either as claimed. Not for $5. Too good to be true .


I have ordered directly from KZ store(ED2+ED9). It says special edition on their webpage itself. Let's see what comes.


----------



## HungryPanda

The 2 items I'm still waiting on were the only ones bought in the KZ store on Ali, got a message today saying "items returned to us we are resending here is new tracking number"


----------



## phower

Sebilion said:


> Just tried the kz zs10 on my new nokia 8 with a hifi amp I bought from amazon. I have to admit the sound is much better than with the htc 10 and the amp. The vocals are much better and they are less muddy with an amazing bass. It's amazing how changing the source can change the sound a lot. Didn't expect such a good performance from nokia 8. I am impressed!


Multi-drivers impedance varies widely. Some go as low as 5 ohms at certain frequencies. So, it is _*very important *_to have a very low output impedance of less than 1 ohm in your source.
Does your amp contains a DAC too or just analog amp?


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 11, 2018)

phower said:


> Is ED special edition same as EDR1? From the audiobudget's FR curves, the EDR1, EDR2 and ED2 are same except cosmetic differences? Anyways, the FR curves are very nice. Almost on target. It is another example that you don't need multi-BA to reproduce good sound.



The EDSE, EDR1 and EDR2 sound different from one another though the EDSE and EDR1 look identical:

* The EDR2 sound signature leans towards a more balanced presentation..


 
* The EDSE has a slight lift in the bass and treble with a minimally recessed midrange (more "V" shaped sound signature)


 


 
* The EDR1 is a bass lovers dream with its addictive bass because everything else remains clear. 


 

Listening to the following tracks with all three IEMs will clarify just how different they are.



The ED Special Edition was my very first KZ. I never ordered the ED2 but I should have because it may be different from the three aforementioned KZ's. Sometimes you can't depend on a sellers description of what they themselves are selling. 

This is from the "KZ Official Store" on AliExpress.



https://m.de.aliexpress.com/store/a...49_smu-y2gIVDeDICh0jOwr-EAAYASAAEgKjD_D_BwE#/


A picture is worth a thousand words:


 


 


 

Even so, getting all three for less than $20 (total) is money well spent.

I'll post a more in-depth review of both the ED Special Edition and the EDR2 in the showcase section but B9 and aproear have more information for those that are interested. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...ce-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-2/amp/

https://www.aproear.co.uk/edse/


----------



## HungryPanda

That last image looks a lot like QKZ DM6


----------



## phower

DocHoliday said:


> The EDSE, EDR1 and EDR2 sound different from one another though the EDSE and EDR1 look identical:
> 
> * The EDR2 sound signature leans towards a more balanced presentation..
> 
> ...



That's not ED9. It looks liked ED SE


----------



## WildSeven

HungryPanda said:


> The 2 items I'm still waiting on were the only ones bought in the KZ store on Ali, got a message today saying "items returned to us we are resending here is new tracking number"


Looks like they are playing with their left and right hand game. My ZS10 is been showing waiting for pick up for almost 2 weeks now.


----------



## HungryPanda

as long as they come eventually


----------



## Prim8NChief

Is the warranty valid no matter which website I purchase the headphones from? I'm looking at Newegg right now and they have a sweet price on one of the KZs.


----------



## Sebilion

phower said:


> Multi-drivers impedance varies widely. Some go as low as 5 ohms at certain frequencies. So, it is _*very important *_to have a very low output impedance of less than 1 ohm in your source.
> Does your amp contains a DAC too or just analog amp?


"VBESTLIFE HIFI Amplifier, Mini HIFI Stereo Headphone Earphone Power Amplifier AMP 3.5mm AUX Digital Audio Player for Smartphone" 

That's what I got, I don't think it has a DAC, but I am still a newbie when it comes to audio technology so I can't be sure


----------



## Sebilion

phower said:


> Multi-drivers impedance varies widely. Some go as low as 5 ohms at certain frequencies. So, it is _*very important *_to have a very low output impedance of less than 1 ohm in your source.
> Does your amp contains a DAC too or just analog amp?



Mini HiFi Amplifier: It is delicate, compact, lightweight, and portable so that it can be carried conveniently
3.5mm AUX Input and Output: 3.5mm AUX input and output, 95DB SNR and THD+N ＜0.006%, make it possible to output not just louder sound, but also sharper and more real stereo sound without distortion
Rechargeable Lithium Battery: It adopts a rechargeable lithium battery with 200mAH capacity, which allows it to stay working long time
Compatibility: It is specially designed for mobile phones, but also can be used to car audio, outdoor speaker and so on
HIFI Sound: Noise reduction function, and distortion with enhanced dynamics, perfect pure stereo effect, HD voice music sound quality optimization
Output power: Max: 300mw * 2 / 300mw * 2 / 300mw * 2 / 300mw * 2 / 300mw * 2 / 16Ω 
Frequency / response: 2-27KHZ 27KHZ 
Signal to noise ratio: 95DB 
Dynamic range: 90DB 
Separation: 70DB 
Distortion: ≤0.00 6% 
Input impedance: 32 Ω 
Output impedance: ≤ 200 Ω 
Operating temperature: -40℃ ~ 60℃ 
Storage temperature: -40℃ ~ 85℃ 
Storage humidity: 10% ~ 90% 
Battery: Built-in lithium battery, 200mah (Charged by a Micro USB cable) 
Battery endurance: Approx. 30 hours 
Size: 70 * 25 * 10mm / 2.76 * 0.98 * 0.39inch 
Color: Gray (Shown as the pictures) 
Package weight: 40g 

These are all the specs of the amp, it doesn't say about a DAC. But it sounds  good, that's all I know


----------



## Superluc (Apr 11, 2018)

That output impedance spec don't seem right, maybe is casually put there by the seller but not measured.


----------



## Prim8NChief

So in addition to my warranty question, are these from this source legit? They're so cheap it has me concerned.


----------



## phower (Apr 11, 2018)

Sebilion said:


> Input impedance: 32 Ω
> Output impedance: ≤ 200 Ω
> 
> 
> These are all the specs of the amp, it doesn't say about a DAC. But it sounds  good, that's all I know



If the specs are correct, that output impedance is definitely not good. Even modern smartphones only have ~ 10 ohms output impedance.

Did you try directly from some  other smartphone? A amp is not strictly necessary for IEMs. Also, the Nokia 8's IMD is about 0.282 which is actually quite high even though one could argue whether it is audible. 

P.S. Your HTC 10 actually has better sound quality. Strange isn't it?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 11, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The EDSE, EDR1 and EDR2 sound different from one another though the EDSE and EDR1 look identical:



Doc, your word in god's ear. I already have the EDSE in my shopping cart at the official KZ store but I have reasonable doubts they exist. Reasoning from the following observations:

1. Their EDSE with mic looks like the EDR1.
2. Their "gold plated" EDSE without mic looks like the EDR2 - which is certainly not gold plated as it is silver in appearance.
3. The KZ official store does not offer the EDR1 or EDR2...go figure.
4. They have two versions of the ED9: one looks like the ED9 and the other like the EDR1 (or EDSE).
5. Optically indistinguishable EDR1, ED9, and EDSE? Do I believe it?
6. Another case of "the emperor's new clothing"?

This all is very inconsistent. Were the EDSE labelled as such on the box?

Could it be that the KZ official store are a bunch of...now I can say it...bullshitters ?


----------



## mbwilson111

Vestat said:


> I prefer or like an option for the pre-formed clear tubing that shapes the wire instead. I don't know if anyone else likes that or not, but I find it great on the UiiSii CM5 for an example



I do prefer the preformed tubing shape over the memory wire, BUT the one time I removed the memory wire I hated the result. Having no shaping at all just left it to tangle in my long hair making the  IEMs more difficult to remove.



Strat Rider said:


> I actually maybe one of the only sicko fans that find the ZS6 comfortable out of the box with starlines.



I find the ZS6 very comfortable and perfect for me with the Starline tips.



paulindss said:


> One of the main reasons why i bought zs10 was the pre-sale price and the upgraded cable on the First units. I Hope that my iem arrive with the Nice cable. Only downside being the memory wire.



Uh oh....so those of us who are waiting for reviews before deciding whether or not to get the ZS10 will not get the nice cable?


----------



## paulindss

mbwilson111 said:


> Uh oh....so those of us who are waiting for reviews before deciding whether or not to get the ZS10 will not get the nice cable?



I can't confirm. But i've read somewhere that the braided cable are for the pre-sale units or something.


----------



## bsoplinger

paulindss said:


> I can't confirm. But i've read somewhere that the braided cable are for the pre-sale units or something.


I too remember seeing a post giving that impression also. That the braided cable would be available as an extra item but for the initial release it would be included at no charge. Darn if I remember which thread I saw that on though which makes the memory no very helpful


----------



## Prim8NChief (Apr 11, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I too remember seeing a post giving that impression also. That the braided cable would be available as an extra item but for the initial release it would be included at no charge. Darn if I remember which thread I saw that on though which makes the memory no very helpful



Do you think you need to order from Gear Best to get the braided cable? I was thinking of ordering from a cheaper option like GeekBuying.com or aliexpress.com.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Doc, your word in god's ear. I already have the EDSE in my shopping cart at the official KZ store but I have reasonable doubts they exist. Reasoning from the following observations:
> 
> 1. Their EDSE with mic looks like the EDR1.
> 2. Their "gold plated" EDSE without mic looks like the EDR2 - which is certainly not gold plated as it is silver in appearance.
> ...



I do not wish to be rude but I must state things clearly, Otto.


 

This IEM is clearly the ED9.
 



Otto Motor said:


> 1. Their EDSE with mic looks like the EDR1.


I stated very clearly that both the EDR1 and the EDSE look identical. 



> 2. Their "gold plated" EDSE without mic looks like the EDR2 - which is certainly not gold plated as it is silver in appearance.


Please provide the link so we can verify your assertion. The link I found shows no such thing.

https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/32330216306.html?trace=storeDetail2msiteDetail



> 3. The KZ official store does not offer the EDR1 or EDR2...go figure.


The fact that the store is offering the EDR1 as a gift when you order a ZS6 from them is verification that they do have the EDR1. They may have pulled all existing EDR1 stock to be able to fulfill their promotional promise. It clearly notes that the promotion is for a limited time.....sooooo, the rational deduction is that the "KZ Official Store" may have a "limited supply" of EDR1's, but please note that the EDR1 were never originally shipped with the proprietary eartips shown below.


 



> 4. They have two versions of the ED9: one looks like the ED9 and the other like the EDR1 (or EDSE).


 The rational deduction is that the "KZ Official Store" simply mislabeled an IEM on the store page. 



> 5. Optically indistinguishable EDR1, ED9, and EDSE? Do I believe it?


The rational deduction is that the "KZ Official Store" simply mislabeled an IEM on the store page. 



> 6. Another case of "the emperor's new clothing"?


The rational deduction is that the "KZ Official Store" simply mislabeled an IEM on the store page. 



> This all is very inconsistent. Were the EDSE labelled as such on the box?


I stated very clearly that both the EDR1 and the EDSE look identical.
I stated very clearly that I have both.
I stated very clearly that they sound different. 



> Could it be that the KZ official store are a bunch of...now I can say it...bull****ters ?


Could it be that the "KZ Official Store" simply mislabeled an IEM on the store page?

If having no stock of a two year old IEM suggests to you that they never existed.......even though I stated clearly that I have both.......then perhaps there are more serious concerns. 

Talk to us, Otto; what's going on?
Consider this an.....





Just kidding but you walked right into that one.


----------



## lucasbrea

I just Wana to say that I've  received the kz zs6 with silver cable and nx1s amp with foam tips  and it sounds amazing, great resolution, Soundstage and bass this is a great combo, very happy!!


----------



## Slater

surfacecube said:


> Hi guys, I need some help. I looove my ZS5v1 even if the mids could be a bit more precise and less muddy, the only problem that I have with them is their design. They just dont fit my ears, tried everything. Do you guys have any recommendations for IEMs that perform similarly with detachable cables, and a regular/common in ear design ?
> 
> I already have the UiiSii HM7 proposed in the post above mine, they're not bad but obviously dont come any close to the ZS5v1, you only need to hear the soundstage difference...  Thanks in advance !



You could just sand them down to be more comfortable:


----------



## Slater (Apr 11, 2018)

phower said:


> Is ED special edition same as EDR1? From the audiobudget's FR curves, the EDR1, EDR2 and ED2 are same except cosmetic differences? Anyways, the FR curves are very nice. Almost on target. It is another example that you don't need multi-BA to reproduce good sound.



EDSE is different from the EDR1.

It uses a different driver, has the vent hole in a different spot, and sounds different.

The EDR1 is superior to the EDSE. It is possible to mod the EDSE so it sounds closer to the EDR1, but it takes way more work than just buying an EDR1 for $3-$4.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

OK Doc,
Ad hominem attacks are generally rude. Was this one? Your reaction is a bit overdone at as my skepticism towards this store -  not you -  is justified. And I think you really didn't (want to) understand my argument.

As stated, I am interested in ordering these EDSE but want to make sure they exist (in this store). 

That evidence from packaging question is the one you avoided to answer. The fact that your EDR1 and EDSE sound different could have been  a QC inconsistency as long as you don't give any evidence otherwise. OK, I give you your claim that the EDSE are real and you have them...but the *EDSE can be optically distinguished from the EDR1* ("vent hole and length of housing"), according to Slater above and against your claim. However,  that does not mean that that's what the store is selling us.

I am attaching two pics in support of my skepticism of that store, not you:

1. The "silver" version of the gold-plated EDSE. Does not look like the EDR1 at all but exactly like the EDR2. This is dodgy.
2. The mislabelled ED9 version of the EDR1/EDSE. One mislabellings to many.

All I want to avoid is ordering a third EDR1. There is good reason to believe that this vendor is confusing models.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> OK Doc,
> Ad hominem attacks are generally rude. Your reaction is not warranted at all as my skepticism towards this store -  not you -  is justified. And I think you really didn't understand my argument.
> 
> As stated, I am interested in ordering these EDSE but want to make sure they exist (in this store). This question could be answered by the iem's packaging, as indicated. I could not find any info on the EDSE on the internet (e.g. B9Scrambler's site)
> ...



That ED9 is just mislabeled. There is only 1 ED9 (in black and polished chrome). It has screw on nozzles. Just ignore that listing; it is bogus.

There is no silver EDSE, and any reference to a silver EDSE is bogus (or confusion on the seller's part).

There is only 1 EDSE. Externally (at least from photos), it is almost indistinguishable from an EDR1.

You USED to be able to tell them apart from the length of the shell - in other words, with an EDR v1, the EDR1 v1 shell is 3-4mms longer than the EDSE.

But now that the NEW EDR1 (ie EDR1 v2) uses the same exact shell as the EDSE, the *only* way to tell which is which (visually, not audibly) is to examine the vent hole on the underside by the wire strain relief.

The cable is the same, shells plated the same dark grey color, etc etc


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 12, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> OK Doc,
> Ad hominem attacks are generally rude. Your reaction is not warranted at all as my skepticism towards this store -  not you -  is justified. And I think you really didn't understand my argument.
> 
> As stated, I am interested in ordering these EDSE but want to make sure they exist (in this store). This question could be answered by the iem's packaging, as indicated. I could not find any info on the EDSE on the internet (e.g. B9Scrambler's site)
> ...




1. My openings and closing statements in the post were clearly tongue in cheek and in jest.

2. Saying that I "avoided to answer" suggests intentional obfuscation as opposed to oversight, just like the stores oversight with mislabeling the IEM below. 


 
Seems you've made up your mind regarding motive but let me be clear. I did not "avoid" the question. My EDR1, EDR2 and EDSE all came in KZ's small rectangular black boxes with purple writing and a small black and white label in the top right corner that clearly state "EDR1" or "EDR2" just as my HDS3 and HDS1 did.

3. The original EDR1 and EDSE did not exist in silver/aluminum so to quell your fear either contact the seller or avoid purchasing them from the site you've posted the photo from. 

4. 


> You cherry pick the mislabellings. The fact that your EDR1 and EDSE sound different could have been a QC inconsistency as long as you don't give any evidence otherwise.


Slater clearly concurred with my findings in his post that the EDR1 and the EDSE do indeed sound different. Why mention the vent hole and omit his confirmation of sound signature? Was it an oversight or obfuscation? If two seasoned members of the thread confirm a given sound signature on both accounts (EDR1 & EDSE) and it's not enough to make a decision then don't make a decision until you are satisfied with the information you gather about said IEM.

Slater's comments:


Spoiler



EDSE is different from the EDR1.

It uses a different driver, has the vent hole in a different spot, and sounds different.

The EDR1 is superior to the EDSE. It is possible to mod the EDSE so it sounds closer to the EDR1, but it takes way more work than just buying an EDR1 for $3-$4.



5. The link I provided shows that my connection was via a mobile device and platform in German 

https://m.de.aliexpress.com/store/a...49_smu-y2gIVDeDICh0jOwr-EAAYASAAEgKjD_D_BwE#/

.......as opposed to the full desktop layout which may account for the lack of the photo you provided with a Russian AliExpress presentation (which is why I inquired about the link). 
By the way, regarding the "You cherry pick the mislabellings" thanks for casting mild aspersions.

6.


> Too many mislabellings in this store?


Find another seller.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> 1. My openings and closing statements in the post were clearly tongue in cheek and in jest.
> 
> .


It is all good. In the meantime I found a snippet on the EDSE on the Contraptionist. There is no review on the EDR1 anywhere...and contributing to the confusion, audiobudget states that the ED2 look like the EDR1/EDSE but have the same driver and sound as the EDR2. KZ really pulled out more of (almost) the same. No wonder vendors and buyers are confused. 

I have no doubt that the EDSE and EDR1 sound different with the additional information given. This essentially includes the recommendation to avoid the EDSE. Vendor problem solved


----------



## bsoplinger

In my search for the tiny but good sounding KZ HDS3 I came across mention of the only wood shelled style that I know about. What I didn't realize was that they made one in the 'regular' size which would make it look like the EDR2 and then a 'mini' size more comparable to the HDS3.

From the collectors, how do either size sound? Secondly, is there a similar tiny choice comparable to the HDS3? I'm asking for other brands for this one because I'm rather sure KZ doesn't offer anything. I can think of things like the MEMT X5, Einsear T2 as small options but I think they're more EDR2 sized and not really tiny, tiny like the HDS3.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> In my search for the tiny but good sounding KZ HDS3 I came across mention of the only wood shelled style that I know about. What I didn't realize was that they made one in the 'regular' size which would make it look like the EDR2 and then a 'mini' size more comparable to the HDS3.
> 
> From the collectors, how do either size sound? Secondly, is there a similar tiny choice comparable to the HDS3? I'm asking for other brands for this one because I'm rather sure KZ doesn't offer anything. I can think of things like the MEMT X5, Einsear T2 as small options but I think they're more EDR2 sized and not really tiny, tiny like the HDS3.



Microdrivers/small earphones in my possession:  Joyroom E-103 (great resolution, possibly a bit bright), Remax RM-720i (chainsaw), Sony MH1C (excellent; horrible cable; $22 on eBay), UiiSii HM7 (praised but I don't like them), Philips SHE3590 (don't like them either), Sennheiser CX300II (muddy bass).


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> It is all good. In the meantime I found a snippet on the EDSE on the Contraptionist. There is no review on the EDR1 anywhere...and contributing to the confusion, audiobudget states that the ED2 look like the EDR1/EDSE but have the same driver and sound as the EDR2. KZ really pulled out more of (almost) the same. No wonder vendors and buyers are confused.
> 
> I have no doubt that the EDSE and EDR1 sound different with the additional information given. This essentially includes the recommendation to avoid the EDSE. Vendor problem solved



Knowledge Zenith EDR1: 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-edr1-in-ear-monitor.22987/reviews



bsoplinger said:


> In my search for the tiny but good sounding KZ HDS3 I came across mention of the only wood shelled style that I know about. What I didn't realize was that they made one in the 'regular' size which would make it look like the EDR2 and then a 'mini' size more comparable to the HDS3.
> 
> From the collectors, how do either size sound? Secondly, is there a similar tiny choice comparable to the HDS3? I'm asking for other brands for this one because I'm rather sure KZ doesn't offer anything. I can think of things like the MEMT X5, Einsear T2 as small options but I think they're more EDR2 sized and not really tiny, tiny like the HDS3.



Knowledge Zenith ED7: 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/reviews#review-20135


----------



## Slater (Apr 12, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> In my search for the tiny but good sounding KZ HDS3 I came across mention of the only wood shelled style that I know about. What I didn't realize was that they made one in the 'regular' size which would make it look like the EDR2 and then a 'mini' size more comparable to the HDS3.
> 
> From the collectors, how do either size sound? Secondly, is there a similar tiny choice comparable to the HDS3? I'm asking for other brands for this one because I'm rather sure KZ doesn't offer anything. I can think of things like the MEMT X5, Einsear T2 as small options but I think they're more EDR2 sized and not really tiny, tiny like the HDS3.



There's the 'mini' version of the KZ ED7 bamboo IEM (smaller than the regular ED7). I don't know how it compares size-wise to the HDS3. Doc could answer that.

You can check out more info here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/reviews#review-20135

Also, I have a like-new (modded) HDS2 micro drver I would be willing to part with. It's ridiculously small (look at it in comparison to the SMALL Starline tip); even smaller than the HDS3: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1677#post-13855768

(top one in this photo)


----------



## CoiL (Apr 12, 2018)

phower said:


> But,* one should not stop equalizing based on the false beiief that it is not pure or that distorts the sound.*


You are totally correct but no-one has said that EQing is "not pure" or "distorts" sound or is bad. What was said, is that EQing affects sideby frequencies of target frequency and there are different directions approaching sound "correction" to subjective taste.

That`s my final comment about this in this thread as it seems to turn off-topic and "pushed" to one side (and I`m not doing that)


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> There's the 'mini' version of the KZ ED7 bamboo IEM (smaller than the regular ED7). I don't know how it compares size-wise to the HDS3. Doc could answer that.
> 
> You can check out more info here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/reviews#review-20135
> 
> ...


The mod was to Dremel off the back and seal the resulting hole, correct? I remember your post showing the mod. In fact I went looking for a HDS2 after I saw that post but couldn't find it anywhere but did run across the HDS3 and decided to get a pair. Now I'm wishing that I'd gotten a few more. Cheap and so tiny and decent sound, they're great to just stash about home, the office and car.


----------



## BrunoC (Apr 12, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Knowledge Zenith EDR1:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-edr1-in-ear-monitor.22987/reviews
> 
> 
> ...




I'm in the same situation as @Otto Motor. I have the EDR1 and EDR2  which are absolute bergains, and as a collector I want to buy the EDSE. I noted that in the KZ Official Store the feedback pictures from several people show the EDR1 box. Yes, it's clearly the EDR1. Some boxes don't mention the model but only the picture. Some pictures show the ED9. What?

Does anyone have the EDSE with the white box? Does it really exist in that store? Maybe it's just the EDR1 afterall.


----------



## youngarthur

Slater said:


> EDSE is different from the EDR1.
> 
> It uses a different driver, has the vent hole in a different spot, and sounds different.
> 
> The EDR1 is superior to the EDSE. It is possible to mod the EDSE so it sounds closer to the EDR1, but it takes way more work than just buying an EDR1 for $3-$4.


I purchased the EDR1, and think it exceptional for the price, so I've ordered another 2.


----------



## Slater (Apr 12, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> The mod was to Dremel off the back and seal the resulting hole, correct? I remember your post showing the mod. In fact I went looking for a HDS2 after I saw that post but couldn't find it anywhere but did run across the HDS3 and decided to get a pair. Now I'm wishing that I'd gotten a few more. Cheap and so tiny and decent sound, they're great to just stash about home, the office and car.



Correct. But they sounded good open as well.

My beef with the HDS3 is the nozzle is juuust a bit too small, and it's hard to find silicone tips that stay on. I was going to put a layer or 2 of heat shrink tubing on the nozzle to address the situation.


----------



## Slater

BrunoC said:


> I'm in the same situation as @Otto Motor. I have the EDR1 and EDR2  which are absolute bergains, and as a collector I want to buy the EDSE. I noted that in the KZ Official Store the feedback pictures from several people show the EDR1 box. Yes, it's clearly the EDR1. Some boxes don't mention the model but only the picture. Some pictures show the ED9. What?
> 
> Does anyone have the EDSE with the white box? Does it really exist in that store? Maybe it's just the EDR1 afterall.



I have never seen an EDSE with white box. They will come in the black cardboard box w/purple print.


----------



## ivo001

Slater said:


> The batch of ZS3 from that time frame were defective:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/apr...meizu-ep51-23-99.832367/page-75#post-13961425
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/apr...meizu-ep51-23-99.832367/page-83#post-13981998
> ...



I know there was, mine seemed to survive a bit longer then the others, but still defect. I PM'ed @George-gearbest  about it on 3rd of April, but haven't had an response yet. Is it best to just contact GB customer service via my order page on GB?


----------



## WalterTorino

But which model is better to buy if i like punchy bass - the edr1 or the ed9? Or should i wait for the ed15?


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> I know there was, mine seemed to survive a bit longer then the others, but still defect. I PM'ed @George-gearbest  about it on 3rd of April, but haven't had an response yet. Is it best to just contact GB customer service via my order page on GB?



I've found it best to start with the normal CS route at GB. Give them a chance to resolve the problem (which they do 97% of the time). But if you run into problems, then PM George and give him the *specific ticket number* to reference.

Because without a ticket in the system, it's much more difficult for George to help.


----------



## Audrix (Apr 12, 2018)

Hey everyone,
Can you all recommend the most balanced KZ that wont sound distorted when i eq it a bit and go to high volumes?

I know it may be impossible when comes from a small budget, but whats the nearest from those outcomes...

Thx!


----------



## Slater

WalterTorino said:


> But which model is better to buy if i like punchy bass - the edr1 or the ed9? Or should i wait for the ed15?



No one knows what the ED15 sounds like yet. But the EDR1 is ridiculously awesome for the asking price (sound, build quality, and comfort). I have heard loads of <$5 IEMs, and trust me you will NOT find a better value in IEMs.


----------



## WalterTorino

Audrix said:


> Hey everyone,
> Can you all recommend the most balanced KZ


Ate, zsr and may be zs10. Zst close to balanced too but kinda boring. Imo.


----------



## Slater

Audrix said:


> Hey everyone,
> Can you all recommend the most balanced KZ



Different people use the word balanced differently.

By balanced do you mean neutral?

Or by balanced to you mean 1 frequency range doesn't grossly overpower any others (like Beats having heavily boosted sub bass for example)?


----------



## WalterTorino

Slater said:


> No one knows what the ED15 sounds like yet. But the EDR1 is ridiculously awesome for the asking price (sound, build quality, and comfort). I have heard loads of <$5 IEMs, and trust me you will NOT find a better value in IEMs.


Yep, i know that nobody have the ed15 yet. But the housings look like it's gonna be pretty bassy model  Plus the armature driver should give more detailed mids and highs. Sooo... It is very interesting to take a look on a reviews)


----------



## Wiljen

WalterTorino said:


> Ate, zsr and may be zs10. Zst close to balanced too but kinda boring. Imo.



zst closed to balanced?  Boy did you get a different pair than I did.  I would agree on ATE and ZSR but ZSt is a big deep V tuning and far from balanced in my experience.


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 12, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> zst closed to balanced?  Boy did you get a different pair than I did.  I would agree on ATE and ZSR but ZSt is a big deep V tuning and far from balanced in my experience.


May be it is a source issue, may be i've listened to the deffective pair, who knows... Or may be i'm mistaken  Too many "may be"s - that's why it is better to listen to a headphones by yourself and choose them in live - not by a thoughts of another people


----------



## Audrix (Apr 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> Different people use the word balanced differently.
> 
> By balanced do you mean neutral?
> 
> Or by balanced to you mean 1 frequency range doesn't grossly overpower any others (like Beats having heavily boosted sub bass for example)?



Yeah, i mean neutral, but non overpowered low freqs the ones im lookin for too lol!

Btw fyi I’ve got some KZs with big names too. I was first introduced to the ATE’s which frickin blow my mind on how these budget could lead to such good sounding iems then my past iem desicions (which the ones that succ’d). Then it the jack broked, so i asked a good friend of mine to get me some more ATE’s but he made a mistake that he bought me some ATES! It was pretty good, just quite less bass and more highs. Then guess what? One of the left (or right i forgot) broked again, so i bought myself some ZS3 which was too muddy for me (and is it just me or does it feel bad inside the ears? Like the air felt vacuumed inside) so i lend it to my other friend. Then finally, months ago i bought the ZST (the colored ones) and i think its pretty cool! But the right broke too lmao.

Now, im just gonna decide what immana buy. i wont buy another ATE’s cuz imo the bass doesn’t fit me. On maybe the new ZSR, idk. Btw i wanna ask if ZS5 and the ZS6’s really sibilant, i heard ppl ranting bout them.


----------



## hiflofi

Wiljen said:


> zst closed to balanced?  Boy did you get a different pair than I did.  I would agree on ATE and ZSR but ZSt is a big deep V tuning and far from balanced in my experience.


I agree that the ZST is very v-shaped. ZS6 I felt was decent until I put on some Flume recently. Idk, the ZS6 makes everything so clear but a bit too "crisp".


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

WalterTorino said:


> But which model is better to buy if i like punchy bass - the edr1 or the ed9? Or should i wait for the ed15?


I do not know how ed9 and ed1 sound, but I had ed2 and sounds was so-so.
At ed2 the sound is deaf, the bass is not so massive (I would compare the sound with cheap headphones with aliexpress for $ 3). 
ru : наушники для цены до 300р нормальные, но не более. НЧ средние, они доминируют. Глуховатый звук у них(и узкий по сцене) . но это тоже имхо  
i think? that ed2 == ed1 : body(shell) ; dd; etc


----------



## Podster

Will the real ED9 please stand up, please stand up




 

 

"There can only be one"


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> That ED9 is just mislabeled. There is only 1 ED9 (in black and polished chrome). It has screw on nozzles. Just ignore that listing; it is bogus.
> 
> There is no silver EDSE, and any reference to a silver EDSE is bogus (or confusion on the seller's part).
> 
> ...


the edse was highly touted a few years ago, and is  a fun listen, but has been overshadowed by the more recent kz cheapos (edr2, ed3c, etc.). the hds3, for one, has the same basic signature--energetic, mid-focused and brightish--but sounds better to me. we're talking five bucks, tho, so the edse is still a worthwhile addition.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Otto Motor said:


> Microdrivers/small earphones in my possession:  Joyroom E-103 (great resolution, possibly a bit bright), Remax RM-720i (chainsaw), Sony MH1C (excellent; horrible cable; $22 on eBay), UiiSii HM7 (praised but I don't like them), Philips SHE3590 (don't like them either), Sennheiser CX300II (muddy bass).


i'd add the carbo tenore (much praised, but i don't love 'em), the musicmaker tw1 ( good with correct fit/source), steelseries flux (balanced and quite excellent), jvc fxh30 (vg, with precise imaging). all of these do certain things better than the hds3, but i still dig the hds3.


----------



## Superluc

Audrix said:


> Btw i wanna ask if ZS5 and the ZS6’s really sibilant, i heard ppl ranting bout them.


They are.

I still use my ZS6, even with silicon tips on some tracks, but when it comes to vocals with recorded sibilance, or cymbals, EQ and foam are obviously needed.

Is easier to go with the ZSR.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> But which model is better to buy if i like punchy bass - the edr1 or the ed9? Or should i wait for the ed15?


I really don't like the ED9 as they sound fatiguing to me independent of filter used. On the contrary, I love the 60% cheaper EDR1. This is entirely *subjective*, though. In terms of punchy bass, you can't go wrong with the EDR1.

What I would do? I would not buy the ED9 but blow my money  on both EDR1 and EDR2 - and a can of beer. The ED15 is in a different price category and unknown to us.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Knowledge Zenith ED7:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/reviews#review-20135



Thanks. Great review! Will order asap.


----------



## Podster (Apr 12, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I really don't like the ED9 as they sound fatiguing to me independent of filter used. On the contrary, I love the 60% cheaper EDR1. This is entirely *subjective*, though. In terms of punchy bass, you can't go wrong with the EDR1.
> 
> What I would do? I would not buy the ED9 but blow my money  on both EDR1 and EDR2 - and a can of beer. The ED15 is in a different price category and unknown to us.



Of course you are entitled to your opinion as we all are Otto but then again we all hear them differently as well. Really no right or wrong and maybe he should try the EDR's first and see what he thinks for a collective $10 however I find the ED9's to be two; three times either of them and with switchable filters possibly 4 times IMO but then again I love me some treble and finite detail the ED9 provides. Just wanted Walter to not totally disregard the ED9 on your opinion of them

I'd like to think I do have a little KZ SS knowledge


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> Of course you are entitled to your opinion as we all are Otto but then again we all hear them differently as well. Really no right or wrong and maybe he should try the EDR's first and see what he thinks for a collective $10 however I find the ED9's to be two; three times either of them and with switchable filters possibly 4 times IMO but then again I love me some treble and finite detail the ED9 provides. Just wanted Walter to not totally disregard the ED9 on your opinion of them
> 
> I'd like to think I do have a little KZ SS knowledge


I agree. I like the ED9 out of all the KZs that I have. The bass is very tight when compared to the 40 other IEM's that I own. Probably, due to the PEK diaphragm used in ED9 instead of PET diaphragm that is universally used.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

Podster said:


> Of course you are entitled to your opinion as we all are Otto but then again we all hear them differently as well. Really no right or wrong and maybe he should try the EDR's first and see what he thinks for a collective $10 however I find the ED9's to be two; three times either of them and with switchable filters possibly 4 times IMO but then again I love me some treble and finite detail the ED9 provides. Just wanted Walter to not totally disregard the ED9 on your opinion of them
> 
> I'd like to think I do have a little KZ SS knowledge


First of all: nice collection! I wished I had some of the earlier models.

Second: I totally agree with all your points and am glad I threw the monkey wrench in to stimulate discussion. The more opinions with reasonings the better for Walter.

The HDS1 have been said to be superior over the HDS3 (B9 Scrambler). And the HDS3 have been described to sound better than the $50 Soundmagic E10C by headflux.de (Soundmagic E10 had been class award winner at whathifi between 2012 and 2016). The EDR1 and EDR2 sound very similar to the HDS 1/3. I own all of these myself.

This gives me the opportunity to pull the ED9 out for a spin today to test your statement. The body of reviews of the ED9 is pretty good.

EDIT: which filter do you prefer?


----------



## Podster (Apr 12, 2018)

phower said:


> I agree. I like the ED9 out of all the KZs that I have. The bass is very tight when compared to the 40 other IEM's that I own. Probably, due to the PEK diaphragm used in ED9 instead of PET diaphragm that is universally used.



You may be right on that and I have always felt the housing on the ED9 helps enhance the bass because brass (painted or chromed) is non resonant (as opposed to Copper, Steel and Aluminium) to my ears anyway, as far as that being technically sound I may be full of you know what as a Christmas Turkey

For me the beauty of the ED9 is the solidity and crispness of the bass along with the incredible detail of the high end plus the bonus of tightening up the mids with the gold or brass filter depending on how you hear them. Now yes the ED9 can be over driven as most of the KZ line can but at comfortable listening levels the ED9 is the true shining star in the KZ line and I admit they are what got me hooked on KZ in the first place, if you are talking bang for buck the ED9 is an audio gem IMO. YMMV

They also make for nice ornaments to adorn other things Say the ED9 Official Pace Car





Sorry @Otto Motor , just caught your question! A lot of people have always confused the two filters because one may interpret both as being a gold filter, I choose to say the non metallic one and the shiny brass one, for most applications and devices I prefer the dull gold non metallic one with Auvio tips on them. It may just be my goofy ears but I actually get a slight bit of ringing out of the brass filter!


----------



## C2thew (Apr 12, 2018)

POYATU Three Triple Flange Ear tips Ear Tips Foam For UrBeats 2.0 Ear Tips Silicone For Tour2 Tour 2.5 In-Ear Headphone Eartips
http://s.aliexpress.com/YB7jIZBv?fromSns=Copy

So i ordered the triple flange ear tips to compare vs the starlines that come stock with the KZ ZS6 and I just couldn't get used to them.  I'm glad I only spent $1.67 on them but yeah I can't get used to the fit for my ears.  So the stock starline tips are still the way to go even if the triple flange ear tips were recommended to get "extra bass."  I might try modding them to make them "double tips" but maybe i'll give them another try in a few weeks.  Just not my cup of tea.

I'm still waiting for my other orders.


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> You may be right on that and I have always felt the housing on the ED9 helps enhance the bass because brass (painted or chromed) is non resonant (as opposed to Copper, Steel and Aluminium) to my ears anyway, as far as that being technically sound I may be full of you know what as a Christmas Turkey
> 
> For me the beauty of the ED9 is the solidity and crispness of the bass along with the incredible detail of the high end plus the bonus of tightening up the mids with the gold or brass filter depending on how you hear them. Now yes the ED9 can be over driven as most of the KZ line can but at comfortable listening levels the ED9 is the true shining star in the KZ line and I admit they are what got me hooked on KZ in the first place, if you are talking bang for buck the ED9 is an audio gem IMO. YMMV
> 
> They also make for nice ornaments to adorn other things Say the ED9 Official Pace Car


And you are right about the brass improving the bass frequencies. The Pioneer CH9T also uses brass to enhance the bass. And the retail price is $90.


----------



## Podster

phower said:


> And you are right about the brass improving the bass frequencies. The Pioneer CH9T also uses brass to enhance the bass. And the retail price is $90.



True but the Pioneer is one heck of an iem in it's own right, may be a little expensive but pretty close to reasonable for me on those babies.

I do like the brass for EDM and heavy Reggae Dub but for most applications I prefer the balance I get with the gold filter.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 12, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Thanks. Great review! Will order asap.



Thanks for the compliment; just be aware that the ED7 is a far cry from the likes of the ZSR and ZS6. When I consider the IEMs that you've discussed here and on Igor's site I think you would prefer the EDR1's sound signature four out of five times but only you can make such a determination. The ED7 is quite controversial because the only way to use them is to have all of your ducks lined up in a row, so to speak, meaning source and eartips. I suppose I should revisit the review and document my observations on pairing the ED7 with an agreeable source. 

At any rate, at less than $10 a pair it's worth experimenting. 

When the ED8 was originally released I hesitated on purchasing them due to reports of bloated bass and recessed highs but when I finally decided to order them I was stunned at how far off the impressions were because almost immediately I came to absolutely adore the ED8. I will post a full and in-depth review of the long forgotten (but lover'ly to me) ED8. 


 

 

B9's take on our beloved ED8:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...ce-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-2/amp/

The last secret stash of the long forgotten ED8 which is about to vanish can be purchased here.
https://www.amazon.com/Definition-Earphones-GranVela-Headphones-Quality/dp/B00YEV8F4E?th=1&psc=1

Hopefully, I'll be proven wrong and you will love the ED7;  just be mindful that it won't share the ZSR's resolution, soundstage or dynamics. Looking forward to your thoughts when you receive them.

When you do receive them come back to this post and listen to the following tracks with both IEMs  (EDR1 & ED7) and please comment on which IEM you prefer and why.


Spoiler







 












My ED7 are paired with silicone eartips from inexpensive Philips IEMs (SHE3590, SHE8100).


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

*ED9 filters*
OK, I pulled the ED9 out for a test run. They are technically superior over the EDRs (resolution; cleaner voices and bass) but my pair could have better transparency  and clarity...maybe that's asking too much for $10. The bass is what you make out of it with your choice of filters. The shiny, wide filters worked best for me. I also played with the red filters from the KZ GR. I nevertheless prefer the EDR1/2 as they are not fatiguing to my ears while having no explanation for the ED9's fatiguing (FR curves have no conspicuous peaks). Maybe it is that extraordinary punch, they are easier on my ears at lower volume levels.

UPDATE: having used the ED9 for quite a period of time this morning. On a moderate volume level, they make for a relaxed listening.

Independent of all that, they are very interesting iems and well worth their money.

*My revised recommendation to Walter: buy them all...the HDS1/3, EDR1, EDSE, EDR2, and EDR9...and a six pack of beer to go with them.*


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> The last secret stash of the long forgotten ED8 which is about to vanish can be purchased here.
> https://www.amazon.com/Definition-Earphones-GranVela-Headphones-Quality/dp/B00YEV8F4E?th=1&psc=1


Holy ****! Beautiful! I want these pimped ones...

P.S. They even bleeped out the F


----------



## DSebastiao

Podster said:


> Of course you are entitled to your opinion as we all are Otto but then again we all hear them differently as well. Really no right or wrong and maybe he should try the EDR's first and see what he thinks for a collective $10 however I find the ED9's to be two; three times either of them and with switchable filters possibly 4 times IMO but then again I love me some treble and finite detail the ED9 provides. Just wanted Walter to not totally disregard the ED9 on your opinion of them
> 
> I'd like to think I do have a little KZ SS knowledge



 What box is that?


----------



## Podster (Apr 12, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> What box is that?



Original Amped ZN1






Strapped to my Shanling M2



 

And my final solution to a poor cable design, amp should have had a clip on it IMO but everyone knows what that means since we all have one of those holes too  Oh no he deent


----------



## rayliam80

All this EDR1/EDR2/EDR9 talk got me interested. I ordered EDR1 and EDR2 from GB. Once the EDR1 and EDR2 arrive, the money for the ED9 however will go towards one these:






Thanks @Otto Motor @Slater @DocHoliday @B9Scrambler


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 12, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> All this EDR1/EDR2/EDR9 talk got me interested. I ordered EDR1 and EDR2 from GB. Once the EDR1 and EDR2 arrive, the money for the ED9 however will go towards one these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My definition of a good day is:


 

and



 

.....and a little reflection on what is important. 



......with an honorable mention going to.....





You may need.....


----------



## 424358

DocHoliday said:


> My definition of a good day is:
> 
> 
> and
> ...




that cream ZSR though


----------



## Podster

rayliam80 said:


> All this EDR1/EDR2/EDR9 talk got me interested. I ordered EDR1 and EDR2 from GB. Once the EDR1 and EDR2 arrive, the money for the ED9 however will go towards one these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That should net you one large cork top Grand Reserve Chimay, the finest beer known to man (at least this one) I home brew and mostly Porter's/Brown Ale's and an occasional Stout but nothing even remotely close to even a Red Chimay


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 12, 2018)

misterchao said:


> that cream ZSR though



Orange Cream-sicle, right?


 

It would be great if KZ ever actually offered the ZSR in this color combination.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the compliment;



I made a compliment? Something must have gone wrong, maybe it is the uplifting spring Calgary weather (see photo from minutes ago). As a Canadian, I apologize for both compliment and weather.

Joke aside!

As to the ED7: I ordered both sizes...and some blue tips for the ED8. Thanks for the recommendation.

As to the ED8: Hmm...that would amount to >$27 USD incl. cross border shipping, which is approx. $4979 CAD. Need some push for doing that...what was the original price?

As to the music spoiler: bookmarked them cleanly in my newly created ED7 folder, but probably have all the originals in my library, including the remasters.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> All this EDR1/EDR2/EDR9 talk got me interested. I ordered EDR1 and EDR2 from GB. Once the EDR1 and EDR2 arrive, the money for the ED9 however will go towards one these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Before I buy Belgian beer, I'd get the ED9...reason: smaller headache !!!


----------



## Podster

Otto Motor said:


> Before I buy Belgian beer, I'd get the ED9



Nice selection Otto, sign me up for a case of the Doppelbock's I always went to the Supermart in Ramstein every weekend to get a 20ct case of Bitburger Altbier while stationed there It was only better when I actually went with my buddies stationed in Bitburg to the local gasthaus where it was on tap, I'm sitting here making myself not only thirsty but hungry for a fried leberkase sandwich to wash back


----------



## CoiL (Apr 12, 2018)

Audrix said:


> Yeah, i mean neutral, but non overpowered low freqs the ones im lookin for too lol!
> 
> Btw fyi I’ve got some KZs with big names too. I was first introduced to the ATE’s which frickin blow my mind on how these budget could lead to such good sounding iems then my past iem desicions (which the ones that succ’d). Then it the jack broked, so i asked a good friend of mine to get me some more ATE’s but he made a mistake that he bought me some ATES! It was pretty good, just quite less bass and more highs. Then guess what? One of the left (or right i forgot) broked again, so i bought myself some ZS3 which was too muddy for me (and is it just me or does it feel bad inside the ears? Like the air felt vacuumed inside) so i lend it to my other friend. Then finally, months ago i bought the ZST (the colored ones) and i think its pretty cool! But the right broke too lmao.
> 
> Now, im just gonna decide what immana buy. i wont buy another ATE’s cuz imo the bass doesn’t fit me. On maybe the new ZSR, idk. Btw i wanna ask if ZS5 and the ZS6’s really sibilant, i heard ppl ranting bout them.



If I understood correctly, you like ATE but don`t like the bass of ATE-S ?
My recommendation, if You wish to keep low budget, buy current ATE (5th gen) again and install mmcx connectors, so, You can change cable if it brakes (or even mmcx sockets).
Turning ATE to mmcx is quite  easy imo. Here`s a pic of my ATR using mmcx:












I have 3xATE &1xATR(ATE driver) sitting in drawer, waiting for mmcx and FF-mod.

Btw, little jump back in time, any serious KZ collector wish to have my ANV v2  wooden "teardrop" mod? ;P 




Since I have found my sound signature preference and near-perfect IEMs (IT01 & ZS5v1), I`m thinking of "cleaning" my hi-fi bag for room to other things.

To moderators - this is not related to WAAM and was done long time ago by me as pure handwork. If post is braking rules of MOT somehow, let me know and I`ll remove it.


----------



## WildSeven

Podster said:


> Original Amped ZN1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is hilarious, I have the ampless ZN1, end of story. Tried my friend's with the amp it almost pull my neck off.


----------



## phower

CoiL said:


> If I understood correctly, you like ATE but don`t like the bass of ATE-S ?
> My recommendation, if You wish to keep low budget, buy current ATE (5th gen) again and install mmcx connectors, so, You can change cable if it brakes (or even mmcx sockets).
> Turning ATE to mmcx is quite  easy imo. Here`s a pic of my ATR using mmcx:
> 
> ...




How difficult is the MMCX mod? i have one ATE with the cable damaged near the connector. 
Any tips/traps to be aware of?


----------



## CoiL

phower said:


> How difficult is the MMCX mod? i have one ATE with the cable damaged near the connector.
> Any tips/traps to be aware of?


Well, imo it is easy but it all depends how much experience You have with soldering iron? If none, then better let someone else do it as soldering driver requires low-wattage iron and very short/fast soldering job to not damage driver by heat conducting over coil and membrane wires.
Fixing and installing mmcx sockets is quite "plug-and-play" but it is recommended to use gel-superglue to fix it securely inside shell.


----------



## phower

CoiL said:


> Well, imo it is easy but it all depends how much experience You have with soldering iron? If none, then better let someone else do it as soldering driver requires low-wattage iron and very short/fast soldering job to not damage driver by heat conducting over coil and membrane wires.
> Fixing and installing mmcx sockets is quite "plug-and-play" but it is recommended to use gel-superglue to fix it securely inside shell.


Yes. I have replaced capacitors on PCBs years ago. 

What wattage for the soldering stick? 30/45/60 W? I already have the plastic pry tools for opening. I just have to order the MMCX connectors.


----------



## CoiL

phower said:


> Yes. I have replaced capacitors on PCBs years ago.
> 
> What wattage for the soldering stick? 30/45/60 W? I already have the plastic pry tools for opening. I just have to order the MMCX connectors.


I`m using 20W (with Pb tin but can melt&join faster than Pb-free) but can be done with 30W too I guess, if You are accurate and quick.
Be sure You order round-shaped mmcx sockets not "phased" like many have as those wont fit into ATR/ATE shells.


----------



## DocHoliday

CoiL said:


> If I understood correctly, you like ATE but don`t like the bass of ATE-S ?
> My recommendation, if You wish to keep low budget, buy current ATE (5th gen) again and install mmcx connectors, so, You can change cable if it brakes (or even mmcx sockets).
> Turning ATE to mmcx is quite  easy imo. Here`s a pic of my ATR using mmcx:
> 
> ...



If those are KZ ANV drivers inside then perhaps B9 would be interested. I think the ANV is one of his favorites but one channel of his KZ ANV died. Not sure if he has v1 or v2 but if your drivers match his then it's a rare opportunity to resurrect something he values.


----------



## phower

CoiL said:


> I`m using 20W (with Pb tin but can melt&join faster than Pb-free) but can be done with 30W too I guess, if You are accurate and quick.
> Be sure You order round-shaped mmcx sockets not "phased" like many have as those wont fit into ATR/ATE shells.



Like these?


----------



## CoiL

DocHoliday said:


> If those are KZ ANV drivers inside then perhaps B9 would be interested. I think the ANV is one of his favorites but one channel of his KZ ANV died. Not sure if he has v1 or v2 but if your drivers match his then it's a rare opportunity to resurrect something he values.


You hear/read this B9S ? You "person" was one of those who pulled me into this kz madness! ;P
Contact me if You are interested (I don`t charge for this, only posting cost from You  ). Wish it would reach into hands of serious KZ-fanboy - and You are! 


phower said:


> Like these?


Yes.


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> If those are KZ ANV drivers inside then perhaps B9 would be interested. I think the ANV is one of his favorites but one channel of his KZ ANV died. Not sure if he has v1 or v2 but if your drivers match his then it's a rare opportunity to resurrect something he values.



I'm definitely interested but I don't think shipping would be kind given I'm in Canada. Only my original ANV had a channel crap out on me. Thankfully I ordered a new one the same day it died (couldn't go without an ANV) which turned out to be the improved version. Thankfully that one is on constant guard by Master Chief and his son, so it should be safe for years to come.

​


----------



## Vestat

CoiL said:


> Well, imo it is easy but it all depends how much experience You have with soldering iron? If none, then better let someone else do it as soldering driver requires low-wattage iron and very short/fast soldering job to not damage driver by heat conducting over coil and membrane wires.
> Fixing and installing mmcx sockets is quite "plug-and-play" but it is recommended to use gel-superglue to fix it securely inside shell.



May I ask you where to find the 2 pins female part? looks like you know what you are doing... 
I bought some spare 2 pins cables (the ones of zs5, zs6) because of my evil plan to recable my monoprice iems and make them with changable cable.. but i still miss the connector to stick inside the iem (the female part).
any help would be great.. thanks in advance.


----------



## Podster (Apr 12, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I'm definitely interested but I don't think shipping would be kind given I'm in Canada. Only my original ANV had a channel crap out on me. Thankfully I ordered a new one the same day it died (couldn't go without an ANV) which turned out to be the improved version. Thankfully that one is on constant guard by Master Chief and his son, so it should be safe for years to come.
> 
> ​



Gee, I never knew that was what the "B" stood for LOL I have always loved Coil's Teardrop mod on those ANV's, how much could shipping be for something so small Wonder if Wokei knows he's my person Damn SOB got me into this never ending contraption

Forgot I still have the non-amped garden hose model of the Mini! 



 

Still deciding my final take on these but sure love the finish


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> I'm definitely interested but I don't think shipping would be kind given I'm in Canada. Only my original ANV had a channel crap out on me. Thankfully I ordered a new one the same day it died (couldn't go without an ANV) which turned out to be the improved version. Thankfully that one is on constant guard by Master Chief and his son, so it should be safe for years to come.
> 
> ​


Well, actually to Canada it should be cheaper than US. Will check about posting cost some day soon to US & CAN.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd still love to buy your Monk IEM mod one day @CoiL


----------



## friuns

finally thephonograph reviewed zs10 i think its first english review out there


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> Gee, I never knew that was what the "B" stood for LOL I have always loved Coil's Teardrop mod on those ANV's, how much could shipping be for something so small Wonder if Wokei knows he's my person Damn SOB got me into this never ending contraption



haha! My username was borrowed from the 2003 Subaru B9Scrambler concept car for use as my Xbox Live account. Was a hybrid 2-seater roadster. Liked the name more than the car, so it's stuck around.


----------



## Podster (Apr 12, 2018)

friuns said:


> finally thephonograph reviewed zs10 i think its first english review out there



Oh, thought you said show me your phonograph





Could not help myself B Although I am a Subaru kind of guy
Just traded "Buddi" here 2017 for a brand new 2018 (Buddi II" because it has Apple Car play!


----------



## CoiL (Apr 12, 2018)

B9S... well we have something in common more than ANV "worship" - I`m still driving my 2001 Impreza 1.6TS AWD(hi-lo) bugeye wagon ;P No turbo, no intercooler, no raw power... but I luv this car soo much! ;P Almost 300K driving joy atm.


----------



## Otto Motor

Podster said:


> Nice selection Otto, sign me up for a case of the Doppelbock's I always went to the Supermart in Ramstein every weekend to get a 20ct case of Bitburger Altbier while stationed there It was only better when I actually went with my buddies stationed in Bitburg to the local gasthaus where it was on tap, I'm sitting here making myself not only thirsty but hungry for a fried leberkase sandwich to wash back


Did you ever do any house fighting in Bonnland at Hammelburg. I was stationed there.


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> B9S... well we have something in common more than ANV "worship" - I`m still driving my 2001 Impreza 1.6TS AWD(hi-lo) bugeye wagon ;P No turbo, no intercooler, no raw power... but I luv this car soo much! ;P



That's awesome  When I went to buy a new car I was going for my favorite, a 2008 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT wagon. Unfortunately it cost a little more than I could afford and settled on a 2008 Fusion SE. Found out afterwards that at the time the Fusion was the most cross shopped model (at least here in Canada) to the Legacy due to similar size, cost, and driving feel.


----------



## Podster

Otto Motor said:


> Did you ever do any house fighting in Bonnland at Hammelburg. I was stationed there.



No sir but I did tour with the Armed Forces Racquetball league while there and my oldest son was born in Landstuhl's 2nd Army hospital, that one might be akin to "I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express" last night


----------



## Superluc

friuns said:


> finally thephonograph reviewed zs10 i think its first english review out there




















Even if they have measured the ZS10 without sealing those questioned vents, seeing the less bass performance, those highs seem way less emphasized than usual. Maybe the tuning is more near ATR/ATE signature. What do you think ?


----------



## vladstef (Apr 12, 2018)

Superluc said:


> Even if they have measured the ZS10 without sealing those questioned vents, seeing the less bass performance, those highs seem way less emphasized than usual. Maybe the tuning is more near ATR/ATE signature. What do you think ?



That looks like it sounds underwater. Bit of a treble roll off. I learned not to judge based on graphs because most of the time they aren't as drastic as this one, but I'm definitely not expecting much at this point.


----------



## phower

vladstef said:


> That looks like it sounds underwater. Bit of a treble roll off. I learned not to judge based on graphs because most of the time they aren't as drastic as this one, but I'm definitely not expecting much at this point.


The 10kHz level has to be level with or 5dB below the 1kHz. The 3kHz peak looks good and is on target. But, the treble looks too rolled off. 
I am not sure what is the point of having 4 BA drivers only to hear dark, veiled sound?


----------



## Superluc (Apr 12, 2018)

The excursion seem really more similar to older ATR's graphs, than ZS5/6. Like they have try to mimic that signature, maybe using the same actual ATE/ATR driver on full range, then try to adding resolution with those little peaks spread around the highs.

It may seem a strange choice, but those highs can't be harsh tuned that way.


----------



## willjie90 (Apr 12, 2018)

New here. Finally created an account after years of lurking. Just received my ZS10. Treble is a little harsh.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Superluc

willjie90 said:


> Just received my ZS10. Treble is a little harsh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really ?

God... follow KZ is so confusing


----------



## Makahl

Superluc said:


> The excursion seem really more similar to older ATR's graphs, than ZS5/6. Like they have try to mimic that signature, maybe using the same actual ATE/ATR driver on full range, then try to adding resolution with those little peaks spread around the highs.
> 
> It may seem a strange choice, but those highs can't be harsh tuned that way.



I don't know the conditions of this measurement rig so I'd take that with a grain of salt:






ZS10 hasn't that fat at the bass/mid-bass like ATR so it's really possible the signature won't be dark as it's looking like to be.


----------



## vladstef

phower said:


> The 10kHz level has to be level with or 5dB below the 1kHz. The 3kHz peak looks good and is on target. But, the treble looks too rolled off.
> I am not sure what is the point of having 4 BA drivers only to hear dark, veiled sound?



It's pretty much ok until 3.5K (warmish but on point still), after 3.5K it has around 10-20dB of treble reduction on average. There are easily single DD IEMs that are cheaper and with better treble extension, what in the world are all these BAs doing?
First time that I am actually toying with the idea that KZ just used BAs as a marketing tool. They probably gave BAs a lot of resistance in order to do that.


----------



## Slater

Audrix said:


> Yeah, i mean neutral, but non overpowered low freqs the ones im lookin for too lol!



Yeah, neutral really isn't KZs thing. Most of what they have (that's readily available, not discontinued models) is v or u shaped.

If you truly want a neutral IEM in the KZ price range, get the graphene dynamic driver BlitzWolf BW-ES1. Then do a few simple but very specific mods to it (requiring only a few simple items like a needle, tape, etc). It is about as flat as a pancake as you're going to get without spending a lot more $$. You will be shocked by the results, with the end result punching way above it's price range.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> the edse was highly touted a few years ago, and is  a fun listen, but has been overshadowed by the more recent kz cheapos (edr2, ed3c, etc.). the hds3, for one, has the same basic signature--energetic, mid-focused and brightish--but sounds better to me. we're talking five bucks, tho, so the edse is still a worthwhile addition.



You know, now that you mention it, the EDSE does remind me of the HDS3 (especially when modded to be open backed):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1108#post-13353620


----------



## hiflofi

Makahl said:


> I don't know the conditions of this measurement rig so I'd take that with a grain of salt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why is KZ so intent on making bright-sounding IEMs? I was hoping with the ZS10 they'd should shoot for more pronounced mids.


----------



## paulindss

Slater said:


> Yeah, neutral really isn't KZs thing. Most of what they have (that's readily available, not discontinued models) is v or u shaped.
> 
> If you truly want a neutral IEM in the KZ price range, get the graphene dynamic driver BlitzWolf BW-ES1. Then do a few simple but very specific mods to it (requiring only a few simple items like a needle, tape, etc). It is about as flat as a pancake as you're going to get without spending a lot more $$. You will be shocked by the results, with the end result punching way above it's price range.



How do you compare bw1 modded with tin audio t2 ?


----------



## riffrafff

CoiL said:


> B9S... well we have something in common more than ANV "worship" - I`m still driving my 2001 Impreza 1.6TS AWD(hi-lo) bugeye wagon ;P No turbo, no intercooler, no raw power... but I luv this car soo much! ;P Almost 300K driving joy atm.



288K on mine:


----------



## Slater

paulindss said:


> How do you compare bw1 modded with tin audio t2 ?



My T2 hasn't arrived yet. I don't even think it's been shipped yet. I got caught in the anufacturing shortage during the Aliexpress sale.

@Otto Motor should be able to answer this question though. Pretty sure he has both.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> My T2 hasn't arrived yet. I don't even think it's been shipped yet. I got caught in the manufacturing shortage during the Aliexpress sale.
> 
> @Otto Motor should be able to answer this question though. Pretty sure he has both.


Hmmm...difficult! They are totally different. The modded BW-ES1 sound as flat as a board. They have a very focused, minimal bass and a wide soundstage. Everything is very accurate and nothing is really bad. I did not expect this quality and have not had a signature like this before. What makes them different from much more expensive neutrally tuned iems is their slightly nasal mids in comparison.

What I also appreciate about the BW is the nifty case and a very good cable with an ergonomic 3-button control. The modded BWs excel as a homogenous package.

But how do they compare to the T2? I'd say everything in the BWs sounds a bit slimmer and the voices are more pronounced in the T2. After all, the T2 cost 2-4 times as much.


----------



## Bartig

Aw man, just got a mail from DHgate about the recent KZ deals, with the ZS6 and ZSR together for 25 dollar. The seller can’t ship the items... awaiting a refund.


----------



## brianjai

From what I've heard from Hong Kong forums(tons of people already receive their zs10 from Taobao)
The treble of ZS10 is not as harsh as ZS5/6 and it has a warm sound signature. The resolution of ZS10 is very good but due to the reduced treble it may not too good for people tend to listen to more airly and high-pitch female songs.

One of the big upgrade is the cable that KZ has upgrade their cable to "oxygen-free copper cable) with a much better memory wire.But in terms of the comfort, ZS10 has the largest size in KZ earphone to date while having the shortest nozzle. Some people has reported that it tends to fall off easily due to the latter problem.
(I may try the ZS10 later and give my own impression afterwards)


----------



## ricemanhk

brianjai said:


> From what I've heard from Hong Kong forums(tons of people already receive their zs10 from Taobao)
> The treble of ZS10 is not as harsh as ZS5/6 and it has a warm sound signature. The resolution of ZS10 is very good but due to the reduced treble it may not too good for people tend to listen to more airly and high-pitch female songs.
> 
> One of the big upgrade is the cable that KZ has upgrade their cable to "oxygen-free copper cable) with a much better memory wire.But in terms of the comfort, ZS10 has the largest size in KZ earphone to date while having the shortest nozzle. Some people has reported that it tends to fall off easily due to the latter problem.
> (I may try the ZS10 later and give my own impression afterwards)



I concur on the fit issue.  It doesn't stay in too well and after just 20-30 minutes it will hurt my ears when I smile e.g. using it to watch SNL...
A shame since the SQ is really quite good, but I might go back to ZSR as my daily driver...


----------



## cyberjunkie

My ZS10s have reached home it appears. Can't wait to go check them and take them on my short 5 day vacation!


----------



## brianjai

I've tried the KZ ZS10 myself from a dealer with a demo available(it may've days of burn-in time)

Overall it's like an evolved ZSR/ZST with punchier bass, much more and clearer mids than the ZSR/T, and a bit less treble than my ZST.

Strangely enough, the size of it just fits me perfectly (I have a relatively small ears and it just sticks in my outer ear) But due to the short nozzle and the terrible stock ear tips on the demo makes the comfort in ear canal a bit worse than my ZST with spinfit tips


----------



## Slater

ricemanhk said:


> I concur on the fit issue.  It doesn't stay in too well and after just 20-30 minutes it will hurt my ears when I smile e.g. using it to watch SNL...
> A shame since the SQ is really quite good, but I might go back to ZSR as my daily driver...



Try some longer tips?


----------



## MDH12AX7

ricemanhk said:


> I concur on the fit issue.  It doesn't stay in too well and after just 20-30 minutes it will hurt my ears when I smile e.g. using it to watch SNL...
> A shame since the SQ is really quite good, but I might go back to ZSR as my daily driver...


You  might try Spin fit CP-100 tips. They extend out a ways past the nozzle before the cushion starts.


----------



## MDH12AX7

these ..


----------



## youngarthur (Apr 13, 2018)

Seller has just cancelled my KZ ZS10!. I was desperate for these, as I am down to my last 30. head/ear phones!?.


----------



## friuns

youngarthur said:


> Seller has just cancelled my KZ ZS10!. I was desperate for these, as I am down to my last 30. head/ear phones!?.


which seller?


----------



## mbwilson111

youngarthur said:


> Seller has just cancelled my KZ ZS10!. I was desperate for these, as I am down to my last 30. head/ear phones!?.



Only 30?  Tragic.  .  Come to the Earbuds Roundup.  We have buds!


----------



## youngarthur

friuns said:


> which seller?


3C accessories store, on Aliexpress.


----------



## ivo001

Slater said:


> I've found it best to start with the normal CS route at GB. Give them a chance to resolve the problem (which they do 97% of the time). But if you run into problems, then PM George and give him the *specific ticket number* to reference.
> 
> Because without a ticket in the system, it's much more difficult for George to help.



Contact them and getting pointless response again. To make photos and videos of an audio problem, sigh.



> Dear Ivo,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Gearbest.
> We are sincerely sorry to hear this about your item.
> ...


----------



## DSebastiao

This thread gets a lot of activity, any feedback on the ZS10? Also, any feedback on KZ's foam tips?


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2018)

ivo001 said:


> Contact them and getting pointless response again. To make photos and videos of an audio problem, sigh.



That's standard procedure. All you do is take a video with your phone, holding up 1 ear at a time to the phone microphone for 5-10 seconds.

What I do is prepare a few small notecards ahead of time (written in black marker so it's easy to read) "Right Side - Sound is OK", "Left Side - No Sound" (or "Broken" or something similar). This way there's no language barrier from me speaking, and they can use Google Translate to translate the text on the notecards if they need to.

When when I make my video, I lay out the earpieces and notecards in front of me. I hold up the "Right Side - Sound OK" card for like 5 seconds, then I show myself picking up the R earpiece and hold it up to the mic so you can hear music for about 5 seconds. Then I repeat for the L side (notecard plus hold up to mic). Finally, I upload the video to YouTube, so all I have to do is send a URL link in the Customer Service message.

I've used this method numerous times with Aliexpress and Gearbest, and it has never failed me. The whole process takes a few minutes and you're done.


----------



## skedra

I'll put my 2 cents on the zs10. Listened to them for about 10-12h now. The low end is not as punchy as zs6, the mids are generally good but because of the treble rolloff female vocals seem a bit lacking. Treble to me is now a bit too tame but at least there's close to no sibilance.

Detail wise they resolve well, can't judge how well exactly just yet. 

Generally I think I like them more than zs6 in most cases apart from female vocals. And the comfort is worse than the zs6 too.


----------



## friuns

thats bad i liked zs6 bass


----------



## Slater

friuns said:


> thats bad i liked zs6 bass



Yeah, and ZS6 could have used MORE of it.


----------



## DSebastiao

I'm yet to understand why they went with 4BA + 1DD and didn't just add 1BA to the 2 + 2 setup of the ZS6.

What this point i feel like not getting any of the 2.


----------



## skedra

So did I, comfort and bass of zs6 is what I miss on them. I co do with the rest especially considering they are usually used in noisy environments on the go anyway. Will see how spinfits work when I get those


----------



## WalterTorino

skedra said:


> The low end is not as punchy as zs6


Good bye, zs10...


----------



## skedra

WalterTorino said:


> Good bye, zs10...


It's not thaaat bad, it's just less. Especially when it comes to sub bass. I haven't tried to eq them yet


----------



## WalterTorino

skedra said:


> It's not thaaat bad, it's just less. Especially when it comes to sub bass. I haven't tried to eq them yet


The most sad thing about it is that even lows of the zs6 is not enought for me. So, it looks like the zs10 is gonna be a real dissapointment for me


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Apr 13, 2018)

skedra said:


> It's not thaaat bad, it's just less. Especially when it comes to sub bass. I haven't tried to eq them yet


Yeah, i think that, a good bass more like(comfortable) than bigger bass. If u are like a bass in iems, u should buy a foam eartips or wide eartips(or find only dd iems, for example: tfz( but, 99$))  sorry for my bad English


----------



## skedra

The thing is, I personally couldn't get the zs6 loud on certain songs because of murder treble. Where's I can do that with with zs10. So with eq I can see them being more bassy comfortably.


----------



## skedra

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Yeah, i think that, a good bass more like(comfortable) than bigger bass. If u are like a bass in iems, u should buy a foam eartips or wide eartips(or find only dd iems, for example: tfz( but, 99$))  sorry for my bad English


Yeah DD IEMs will always feel more punchy, and zs10 has what id call good  bass even though I'd like more punch. As for foam I mostly play them on comply so there's that


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Offtop : if u r need a super woofer bass, buy denon c700 from ali (you can find store called "original earphones" ) . Original or not - i don't know, but, BUT , bass(woofer bass) is so pretty for me(massive surrounded bass) . Just wow and all


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> I'm yet to understand why they went with 4BA + 1DD and didn't just add 1BA to the 2 + 2 setup of the ZS6.
> 
> What this point i feel like not getting any of the 2.



Because 5 > 4

I’m with you though. The empty space inside of the ZS6 for the BA would have been a no-brainer. And just tinker with the models of BA in the nozzle and the crossover to tune out the sharp treble.


----------



## DSebastiao (Apr 13, 2018)

Slater said:


> Because 5 > 4
> 
> I’m with you though. The empty space inside of the ZS6 for the BA would have been a no-brainer. And just tinker with the models of BA in the nozzle and the crossover to tune out the sharp treble.



Yeah but 2DD + 3BA still makes 5. A solid and well-rounded 5. 

I love that punch that certain iem's give, so when i found out that the zs10 was 1dd + 4ba i was dissapointed, but still had hope that somehow they could tune them to compensate the lack of a second DD.

The ZS10 just seems like a downwgrade to me, the ZS6 had metalic body and beautiful vents imo, 2DD, easily opened with screws, how did they reach the point of not having any of this in the ZS10, but still make them more expensive?


Meanwhile, anyone that got the ZS6 recently can confirm if it has the nozzle tip?


----------



## Wiljen

I just picked up a zs6 for Dad and have it on the desk, what am I looking for in the way of Nozzle tip?


----------



## DSebastiao

Wiljen said:


> I just picked up a zs6 for Dad and have it on the desk, what am I looking for in the way of Nozzle tip?




Which color are they?

Take out the silicon tip and look for the end of that little tube to have a part coming out to hold rhe silicon tip in place.


----------



## Saoshyant

WalterTorino said:


> The most sad thing about it is that even lows of the zs6 is not enought for me. So, it looks like the zs10 is gonna be a real dissapointment for me



Are you using EQ?  Just curious what your baseline is for amounts of bass.


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Meanwhile, anyone that got the ZS6 recently can confirm if it has the nozzle tip?





Wiljen said:


> I just picked up a zs6 for Dad and have it on the desk, what am I looking for in the way of Nozzle tip?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1947#post-14112607


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 13, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> Are you using EQ?  Just curious what your baseline is for amounts of bass.


No eq - don't like it. I like to listen to headphones as they are.
I like how bass sounds in KZ ATE (1dd) (it's very nice but could be better to be honest) and Kinera bd005(1ad+1dd) (close to satisfaction).
And I agree with guys above that dd headphones have more bass power than hybrid headphones. But I'm still waiting for a miracle


----------



## liquidzoo

This thread (coupled with the price, naturally) has me seriously considering these for working out; but I do have some questions:

Has anyone tried the bluetooth module(s) with the ZST/ZSR/ZS6?  If so, do you know what bluetooth codecs are supported?

I appear to have missed getting the ZSR in black on Amazon earlier today (green still available through Prime, though), but if the ZS6 is better, I'll spend the extra to get it (as long as the bluetooth works and is decent).

I know bluetooth isn't the best, but I would prefer it when I'm out on my bike or at the gym.  I would also prefer these over, say, the MEE Electronics X7 Plus due to the fact that they have a replaceable cable (yes, I can get the M6 Pro and their bluetooth module too).


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2018)

liquidzoo said:


> This thread (coupled with the price, naturally) has me seriously considering these for working out; but I do have some questions:
> 
> Has anyone tried the bluetooth module(s) with the ZST/ZSR/ZS6?  If so, do you know what bluetooth codecs are supported?
> 
> ...



The v2 cable is just plain BT 4.2 - no aptX. I've used the KZ Bluetooth modules on the ZST, ZS3, ZSR, ZS5, and ZS6. I personally like it best on the ZST - you can't even tell it's bluetooth vs wired on the ZST.

It has a 3-4 hour battery life, although you will find that it can have poor range and sometimes EMI interference issues due to a defect in the antenna design. The antenna can be corrected via a mod though.

The TRN bluetooth cable is better than the KZ adapter. Twice the battery life, and supports aptX.

The best option is the Xiaomi BT Adapter IMO. It can be used on *any* headphone, has high quality construction, and is super small (about the size of AA battery).

So if I had to rate them, it would be Xiaomi > TRN > KZ


----------



## skedra

liquidzoo said:


> This thread (coupled with the price, naturally) has me seriously considering these for working out; but I do have some questions:
> 
> Has anyone tried the bluetooth module(s) with the ZST/ZSR/ZS6?  If so, do you know what bluetooth codecs are supported?
> 
> ...


I tried the ZSR and zs6, I personally like the zs6 better, but it has to be with foam tips otherwise treble is too much.

As for the Bluetooth module it's decent, I'm talking about the one with aptX support. Can't talk about battery life though


----------



## liquidzoo

skedra said:


> I tried the ZSR and zs6, I personally like the zs6 better, but it has to be with foam tips otherwise treble is too much.
> 
> As for the Bluetooth module it's decent, I'm talking about the one with aptX support. Can't talk about battery life though





Slater said:


> The v2 cable is just plain BT 4.2 - no aptX. I've used the KZ Bluetooth modules on the ZST, ZS3, ZSR, ZS5, and ZS6. I personally like it best on the ZST - you can't even tell it's bluetooth vs wired on the ZST.
> 
> It has a 3-4 hour battery life, although you will find that it can have poor range and sometimes EMI interference issues due to a defect in the antenna design. The antenna can be corrected via a mod though.
> 
> The TRN bluetooth cable is better. Twice the battery life, and supports aptX.





skedra said:


> I tried the ZSR and zs6, I personally like the zs6 better, but it has to be with foam tips otherwise treble is too much.
> 
> As for the Bluetooth module it's decent, I'm talking about the one with aptX support. Can't talk about battery life though



I assume it's this cable that you're referring to?


----------



## DSebastiao

liquidzoo said:


> This thread (coupled with the price, naturally) has me seriously considering these for working out; but I do have some questions:
> 
> Has anyone tried the bluetooth module(s) with the ZST/ZSR/ZS6?  If so, do you know what bluetooth codecs are supported?
> 
> ...



Consider simply a bluetooth receiver, you got some cheap ones that support aptX, and you have something like the fiio BTR1


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2018)

liquidzoo said:


> I assume it's this cable that you're referring to?



That one says BT 4.1, so it could be the older TRN version.

There's 2 TRN versions; 1 doesn't have aptX, and the other has BT 4.2 and aptX. Not sure if there's any way to visually tell them apart though (and I'm also not sure if the non-aptX one is BT 4.1 or 4.2).

If I was doing it all over again though, I would skip them all and just stick with the Xiaomi Adapter. 1 universal adapter and you're done. No aptX though, but I don't care as I don't use Android.


----------



## skedra

I tried with the 4.2 one, but I don't own it so can't tell you more


----------



## liquidzoo

Slater said:


> That one says BT 4.1, so it could be the older TRN version.
> 
> There's 2 TRN versions; 1 doesn't have aptX, and the other has BT 4.2 and aptX. Not sure if there's any way to visually tell them apart though (and I'm also not sure if the non-aptX one is BT 4.1 or 4.2).
> 
> If I was doing it all over again though, I would skip them all and just stick with the Xiaomi Adapter. 1 universal adapter and you're done.



I'm seeing that.  Doesn't look like the new one is on Amazon (yet) based on the Q&A, though.

I will look into an adapter like that.  I was hoping to not have the long cord (plus having the controls working would be nice).  Not in a super big hurry, though, so I can take my time.

One additional and partially unrelated question:  Which Comply tips work best with the ZSR/ZST/ZS6?


----------



## skedra

liquidzoo said:


> I'm seeing that.  Doesn't look like the new one is on Amazon (yet) based on the Q&A, though.
> 
> I will look into an adapter like that.  I was hoping to not have the long cord (plus having the controls working would be nice).  Not in a super big hurry, though, so I can take my time.
> 
> One additional and partially unrelated question:  Which Comply tips work best with the ZSR/ZST/ZS6?


T-500 works for zs6


----------



## bsoplinger

ivo001 said:


> Contact them and getting pointless response again. To make photos and videos of an audio problem, sigh.


That's OK when I had an issue with a stylus for my tablet not working they wanted me to make a video showing it not working! I replied asking how I was supposed to show that. Eventually they offered store credit equal to what I had paid and I took it.


----------



## Prim8NChief

What do you guys know about the current pricing of the ZS10? Sounds like its worth the price right now (38.74 US) but I kind of want to wait for more reviews. Do you think the price will fluctuate? Will it go back up soon?


----------



## TLDRonin

Kind of funny how after having 2 consecutive models with piercing treble (ZS5&6), we get treble that is apparently rolled off


I'm not one to dismiss it before the majority have tried it though. Just a little curious how there seems to be a lack of treble presence when there are 4 BA drivers per side


----------



## Saoshyant

Come on KZ, follow this up with a 4+1 using 4 micro drivers


----------



## Slater

Prim8NChief said:


> What do you guys know about the current pricing of the ZS10? Sounds like its worth the price right now (38.74 US) but I kind of want to wait for more reviews. Do you think the price will fluctuate? Will it go back up soon?



Prices usually go down, and are always fluctuating. But no one knows for sure.


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> Come on KZ, follow this up with a 4+1 using 4 micro drivers



The YINJW P8 is close, with 3 micro drivers + crossover. It wouldn't be too hard to add a BA driver if you're handy like that.


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> Kind of funny how after having 2 consecutive models with piercing treble (ZS5&6), we get treble that is apparently rolled off
> 
> I'm not one to dismiss it before the majority have tried it though. Just a little curious how there seems to be a lack of treble presence when there are 4 BA drivers per side



I think KZ listens to feedback, and then overcompensates. They have good intentions, but I think it's a knee-jerk reaction.

People complained about the ZS5 v1, so they gave us the ZS5 v2 (which was TOO MUCH in the opposite direction).

Then people complained about the ZS6 treble, so they give us the ZS10 (which again, appears to be TOO MUCH in the opposite direction).


----------



## Wiljen

DSebastiao said:


> Which color are they?
> 
> Take out the silicon tip and look for the end of that little tube to have a part coming out to hold rhe silicon tip in place.



Nozzle is black with no flare or anything else to hold tips on, just a straight tube with a metal grill at top and a flare where it enters the body of the iem.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1947#post-14112607



Red Zs6 - No lip received 2 days ago
Black Zs6 - has lip - received 4 days ago

Go figure


----------



## liquidzoo

Pulled the trigger on a set of ZS6s today.  Will wait and see about the bluetooth.  Maybe I'll get some sort of sleeve or belt instead (though bluetooth would be nicer).  Need some foam tips, unless by chance the ones for my BlueBuds also fit...doubting that, though.  Looking forward to hearing them, though.  Do they need any kind of burn in?


----------



## Slater

liquidzoo said:


> Do they need any kind of burn in?



Burn in doesn't hurt, but isn't necessary. It's a debated topic, but my take on it is "_it can't hurt"_.

Just be sure if/when you burn in, do it at normal listening level. You will fry the drivers by burning in at insane volume.

So I guess my take should be "_technically, it *CAN* hurt, but won't if done at a reasonable volume_".


----------



## TLDRonin

liquidzoo said:


> Pulled the trigger on a set of ZS6s today.  Will wait and see about the bluetooth.  Maybe I'll get some sort of sleeve or belt instead (though bluetooth would be nicer).  Need some foam tips, unless by chance the ones for my BlueBuds also fit...doubting that, though.  Looking forward to hearing them, though.  Do they need any kind of burn in?


They don't *need* burn in but whatever makes them sound best for you, go for it


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> I think KZ listens to feedback, and then overcompensates. They have good intentions, but I think it's a knee-jerk reaction.
> 
> People complained about the ZS5 v1, so they gave us the ZS5 v2 (which was TOO MUCH in the opposite direction).
> 
> Then people complained about the ZS6 treble, so they give us the ZS10 (which again, appears to be TOO MUCH in the opposite direction).


Precisely

I'm waiting for the day they get it just right


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> Precisely
> 
> I'm waiting for the day they get it just right



Well, KZ has lots more models lined up for 2018. So plenty of chances to get it right


----------



## TJK81 (Apr 14, 2018)

I returned to the ZS6's listening, after a several weeks of using ES3's (i like 'em more than ZST's) Listening to the Mrs.Lennox's Little bird. The difference is outstanding. Very deep pronounced bass, superb clarity, very, very decent mids and Annie's voice is so, let's say touchable. Great cheap chi-fi. I'm glad to have a pair.
EDIT: And her "Why"... Oh my...


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Well, KZ has lots more models lined up for 2018. So plenty of chances to get it right



It will be that purple one that I have my eye on...you will see!  I don't need 1000 drivers. I wonder when it will be released.


----------



## friuns

Saoshyant said:


> Are you using EQ?  Just curious what your baseline is for amounts of bass.


eq wont help much if earplugs don't have subbass


----------



## Torac

Recieved my zs10 the other day, they sound pretty nice, much clearer and punchier than my first revision zs5 (before the ba's were put in the nozzle).
Here are some pics:


----------



## nadezhda 6004

brianjai said:


> The treble of ZS10 is not as harsh as ZS5/6 and it has a warm sound signature. The resolution of ZS10 is very good but due to the reduced treble it may not too good for people tend to listen to more airly and high-pitch female songs.


That's exactly what I wanted. Mine were sent a couple of days ago. 
I think most of the users at this thread are sick and tired of sibilants inZS5/6.


----------



## paulindss

EssentialEDM said:


> Recieved my zs10 the other day, they sound pretty nice, much clearer and punchier than my first revision zs5 (before the ba's were put in the nozzle).



See guys... There is still Hope. I WILL NOT GIVE UP IN YOUR HYPE ZS10 !


----------



## Saoshyant

friuns said:


> eq wont help much if earplugs don't have subbass



As a fan of heavy EQ if it suits the music, you’d be surprised what you can coax out of an IEM that you didn’t think it capable of.


----------



## WalterTorino

paulindss said:


> See guys... There is still Hope. I WILL NOT GIVE UP IN YOUR HYPE ZS10 !


Damn it! So many different opinions! 
I have to try to listen to the zs10. May be it's not so bad as i thought...)


----------



## archy121 (Apr 14, 2018)

EssentialEDM said:


> Recieved my zs10 the other day, they sound pretty nice, much clearer and punchier than my first revision zs5 (before the ba's were put in the nozzle).



Just when I was about to skip z10 from being my first KS IEM you restored some hope.
I Look forward to more detailed impressions from you. Please include comments on soundstage, 3D imaging, separation and how well lows & highs respond to equ.

I’m glad to hear that they are not sibilant as I have tolerance issues with peaky highs.
Can you confirm if the highs still have a good amount of sparkle and if not can equ help. I like to listen to some Trance/EDM and sparkle as well as sub bass helps with this genre.

EDIT - Please comment on fitting inc. any issues with short nozzle. A photo with iem in ear would help


----------



## Torac

archy121 said:


> Just when I was about to skip z10 from being my first KS IEM you restored some hope.
> I Look forward to more detailed impressions from you. Please include comments on soundstage, 3D imaging, separation and how well lows & highs respond to equ.
> 
> I’m glad to hear that they are not sibilant as I have tolerance issues with peaky highs.
> ...



I'll try to give you some impressions, I haven't written one before so I will try my best. The highs aren't sibilent, likely due to the ba's being moved further away from the nozzle and they do sparkle a bit as some treble focused songs sound amazing, I listen to EDM as well so I guess my impressions should be inline with yours. There isn't much sub bass but I have heard that an eq greatly helps with this, I will try this at some point. As for comfort they are miles better than the zs5 I have. I will try to give a more detailed impression when I have time and answer some more of your questions.


----------



## paulindss (Apr 14, 2018)

Ops, wrong thread, Sorry. 

*Delete.


----------



## MyPants

I'm just waiting for the ZS10 to get a solid coupon and hit around $30. I'm intrigued, but I can wait for this one.


----------



## zazaboy (Apr 14, 2018)

who can give a comparison between kz zsr and the kz zs10? some users have the kz zs10 now so impressions are what we need..... I heard the kz zs10 is better .. but I need real impressions from this forum to make a final decision ... is the kz zs10 bassheavy or basslight.. what is the soundsignature exactly? how is treble .. is piercing fixed.. do people still notice some sort of sibilance.. in some tracks.. like the kz zsr? or is the sibilance gone in kz zs10.. think especially in some poor mastered tracks where sibilance is a issue.. are they good for edm? thanks


----------



## DSebastiao

Photos of the ZS10 are needed, to compare the colors.

Also, anyone got the green ZS6?


----------



## phower

Those who have ZS10, is it worth the price? It may not be sibilant like ZS6 but if the performance doesn't match the price, I would rather buy other models like ED15 which is only $16 now and spend the rest of money on other models.


----------



## charlescc2

skedra said:


> T-500 works for zs6



Any idea how the different brands compare comfort wise?  I bought New Bee ones from GearBest and they absolutely kill my ears after ten minutes or so and I can't use them.  It's been awhile since I used them but I'm pretty sure I was loving the bass increase vs starlines.  I really wanted them to work but they hurt my ears more than I could tolerate.  I read a lot of positive comments about Comply, but I'm wondering if its a case of if foams hurt your ears they all will, or if it could just be the brand.  It was worth experimenting for a couple bucks for NBs on AE but I don't want to just jump in again for $15.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 14, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> who can give a comparison between kz zsr and the kz zs10? some users have the kz zs10 now so impressions are what we need..... I heard the kz zs10 is better .. but I need real impressions from this forum to make a final decision ... is the kz zs10 bassheavy or basslight.. what is the soundsignature exactly? how is treble .. is piercing fixed.. do people still notice some sort of sibilance.. in some tracks.. like the kz zsr? or is the sibilance gone in kz zs10.. think especially in some poor mastered tracks where sibilance is a issue.. are they good for edm? thanks



https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1709062.html?wid=21



DSebastiao said:


> Photos of the ZS10 are needed, to compare the colors.
> 
> Also, anyone got the green ZS6?





 

And for you EDM lovers:


----------



## surfacecube

Slater said:


> You could just sand them down to be more comfortable:



I could but I feel like it would still be hella uncomfortable and big. Probably gonna keep them for games, thanks for the suggestion though !


----------



## skedra

charlescc2 said:


> Any idea how the different brands compare comfort wise?  I bought New Bee ones from GearBest and they absolutely kill my ears after ten minutes or so and I can't use them.  It's been awhile since I used them but I'm pretty sure I was loving the bass increase vs starlines.  I really wanted them to work but they hurt my ears more than I could tolerate.  I read a lot of positive comments about Comply, but I'm wondering if its a case of if foams hurt your ears they all will, or if it could just be the brand.  It was worth experimenting for a couple bucks for NBs on AE but I don't want to just jump in again for $15.


I've got new bee and comply, the later is more comfortable and fits better to me. New bee are stiffer, and don't squisk as much. They also expand faster. However I don't find new bee uncomfortable so not sure how my experience will translate to you


----------



## zazaboy

DocHoliday said:


> https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1709062.html?wid=21
> 
> 
> 
> ...



waiting for a price drop ... for the kz zs10... and waiting for impressions ofcourse btw I listen most of the edm artist u mentioned we have same taste


----------



## WildSeven (Apr 14, 2018)

Guys I really need your help.

Lately I been noticing there are certain frequency are more "pronounced" in my left ear, I been using the ZS6 in the last 3 months, occasionally using the TFZ King and switching between my full size M1060 Planar. I did try to switch gear and listen to the difference and it all seems my left ear is more sensitive, hear more of the background sound on the left side. (Though this only happens to certain tracks in my play list)

1.) I did several tonal test with the ZS6, it seams between 10k~11k is where my ear picks up more on the left.
2.) I did change gears and noticed the sound is just tiny bit more pronounced on my left ear.

My question is

1.) is my right ear having hearing loss due to excessive IEM use? I wear them almost 10hrs a day but only with low-med volume.
2.) is the BA driver on my ZS6 not balanced causing my ear picking up more on the left side?

What can be done to determine the cause and culprit?


----------



## DocHoliday

WildSeven said:


> Guys I really need your help.
> 
> Lately I been noticing there are certain frequency are more "pronounced" in my left ear, I been using the ZS6 in the last 3 months, occasionally using the TFZ King and switching between my full size M1060 Planar. I did try to switch gear and listen to the difference and it all seems my left ear is more sensitive, hear more of the background sound on the left side. (Though this only happens to certain tracks in my play list)
> 
> ...



See a doctor. Hopefully it's just a build up of earwax that needs to be removed.


----------



## WildSeven

DocHoliday said:


> See a doctor. Hopefully it's just a build up of earwax that needs to be removed.



I clean my ears regularly so I doubt there are any build up inside my right ear, but I will get someone to look at it with a scope tonight. Fingers crossed, I hope there's nothing wrong with my right ear.


----------



## phower

WildSeven said:


> I clean my ears regularly so I doubt there are any build up inside my right ear, but I will get someone to look at it with a scope tonight. Fingers crossed, I hope there's nothing wrong with my right ear.


Did you drop the ZS6? BA are quite fragile which nobody seems to discuss.


----------



## WildSeven

phower said:


> Did you drop the ZS6? BA are quite fragile which nobody seems to discuss.


I baby my IEMs so they are not dropped. How do you check and see if the BA is working or not?


----------



## skedra

WildSeven said:


> I baby my IEMs so they are not dropped. How do you check and see if the BA is working or not?


Try to put the right in left ear and left in right then see if the problem occurs in the other ear. Probably the easiest way to go about this


----------



## phower

WildSeven said:


> I baby my IEMs so they are not dropped. How do you check and see if the BA is working or not?



In general, play a linear sine sweep (20Hz-20kHz) file. You should hear the same sound on both ears. If your hearing or IEM is damaged, you will feel that the volume goes up and down on one ear.


----------



## WildSeven

phower said:


> In general, play a linear sine sweep (20Hz-20kHz) file. You should hear the same sound on both ears. If your hearing or IEM is damaged, you will feel that the volume goes up and down on one ear.


The up and down happen on certain frequency or all over the spectrum?


----------



## DSebastiao

DocHoliday said:


> https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1709062.html?wid=21



Thanks, they're beautiful, i'm getting them, did you get your's recently?


----------



## toddy0191

Anybody received their ED15s yet? Looks like mine should be here  by Monday / Tuesday as they've just cleared customs .


----------



## phower

WildSeven said:


> The up and down happen on certain frequency or all over the spectrum?


It might happen on certain frequencies only.


----------



## HungryPanda

toddy0191 said:


> Anybody received their ED15s yet? Looks like mine should be here  by Monday / Tuesday as they've just cleared customs .


I just looked at the status of mine and it now says shipment cancelled. Bah!


----------



## toddy0191

HungryPanda said:


> I just looked at the status of mine and it now says shipment cancelled. Bah!



Oh no!

Did you buy them from the kz store?

My ZS10s are now also enroute!!!


----------



## HungryPanda

yes but on the ali site it says that but that is on the original tracking number, there is a message from KZ Official store with different tracking number so I have no clue what is happening


----------



## HungryPanda

I ordered the ZS10's from NiceHck and they have not even shipped yet


----------



## DSebastiao

WildSeven said:


> I baby my IEMs so they are not dropped. How do you check and see if the BA is working or not?



https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm always a little sad nobody gives a joke response to a question.  I would have said something like you insert the BAs into a sensitive bit of flesh and if you feel vibrations they work.


----------



## groucho69

Saoshyant said:


> I'm always a little sad nobody gives a joke response to a question.  I would have said something like you insert the BAs into a sensitive bit of flesh and if you feel vibrations they work.



I told you that in confidence!


----------



## DocHoliday

Nope, few weeks after release. First the red then the green and now the black.  Next are the Pewter ZS6 but there's no rush since I have three pairs and I'm waiting for more ZSR colors, so........


----------



## WildSeven

DSebastiao said:


> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php



I did checked my current ZS6 with my TFZ King and my T7A as reference.

Here's the result:

10 Hz >> 200 Hz - image sounds perfectly centered
22 kHz >> 8 kHz - image sounds perfectly centered from 22 kHz to 11 kHz, image from 11 kHz > 9.5 kHz is shifted to left side then comes back to center from 9.5 kHz > 8 kHz

Is this a busted BA driver or simply driver unbalance?


----------



## Slater

charlescc2 said:


> Any idea how the different brands compare comfort wise?  I bought New Bee ones from GearBest and they absolutely kill my ears after ten minutes or so and I can't use them.  It's been awhile since I used them but I'm pretty sure I was loving the bass increase vs starlines.  I really wanted them to work but they hurt my ears more than I could tolerate.  I read a lot of positive comments about Comply, but I'm wondering if its a case of if foams hurt your ears they all will, or if it could just be the brand.  It was worth experimenting for a couple bucks for NBs on AE but I don't want to just jump in again for $15.



Sounds like they were too big (of a diameter).

On Aliexpress, there's a few sellers that have the same style of foam tip, only in SML sizes.

I'll bet if you tried a smaller size of tip, it wouldn't cause any pain.


----------



## Makahl

WildSeven said:


> I did checked my current ZS6 with my TFZ King and my T7A as reference.
> 
> Here's the result:
> 
> ...



I'm a bit confused, have you tried the ZS6, TFZ King, T7A but only ZS6 is showing up this problem?


----------



## Torac (Apr 14, 2018)

archy121 said:


> Just when I was about to skip z10 from being my first KS IEM you restored some hope.
> I Look forward to more detailed impressions from you. Please include comments on soundstage, 3D imaging, separation and how well lows & highs respond to equ.
> 
> I’m glad to hear that they are not sibilant as I have tolerance issues with peaky highs.
> ...



I have a bit more time now. Soundstage on these isn't massive, it doesn't have that inside your head sound but I wouldn't say it extends more than an inch outside of your head. Imaging is great on these although it is more horizontal than vertical. Seperation is much better than my zs5, much less congested sounding and veiled. I have just tested using an eq, they respond very well to it as sub bass is very detailed once boosted, I found that a v shaped eq sounded best to me. I thought highs were good on these already but using an eq really let's the ba's shine as vocals are brought more forward.

I hope that was helpful as I haven't much experience in writing one of these.

Here's a pic of it in my ear:


----------



## Slater

EssentialEDM said:


> I have a bit more time now. Soundstage on these isn't massive, it doesn't have that inside your head sound but I wouldn't say it extends more than an inch outside of your head. Imaging is great on these although it is more horizontal than vertical. Seperation is much better than my zs5, much less congested sounding and veiled. I have just tested using an eq, they respond very well to it as sub bass is very detailed once boosted, I found that a v shaped eq sounded best to me. I thought highs were good on these already but using an eq really let's the ba's shine as vocals are brought more forward.
> 
> I hope that was helpful as I haven't much experience in writing one of these.
> 
> Here's a pic of it in my ear:



You may want to rotate that back just a little bit more (about another 45 degrees). It's not quite where it's designed to be.

The black jack is supposed to be pushed all the way back - just up against the beginning of the helix. Then the bottom of the IEM will tuck right into the intertragic notch like a glove.


----------



## WildSeven (Apr 14, 2018)

Makahl said:


> I'm a bit confused, have you tried the ZS6, TFZ King, T7A but only ZS6 is showing up this problem?



Correct. The image on TFZ King and T7A are perfectly centered throughout all frequency spectrum.
The image on ZS6 from 10 kHz to 9 kHz is shifted to left side a bit then comes back center on 8 kHz, is like it got swayed to left then back to center.

As I mentioned earlier I was sensitive to certain sound in my left ear, if this is caused by the faulty zs6 I will have to dump it. I don't want it to cause any hearing problem to my ear.


----------



## Torac

Slater said:


> You may want to rotate that back just a little bit more (about another 45 degrees). It's not quite where it's designed to be.
> 
> The black jack is supposed to be pushed all the way back - just up against the beginning of the helix. Then the bottom of the IEM will tuck right into the intertragic notch like a glove.



Don't worry it sort of became loose whilst trying to take the photos, I find the stock tips don't grip massively well and will occasionally unseal, looking at them in the mirror now after adjustment they are more like how you say. I hope to get a pair of foam tips soon, maybe the shures unless you know of a better value pair?


----------



## Slater (Apr 14, 2018)

Hmmm, does anyone see any similarities between the *last 2* FR graphs below?

1st is a stock ZS6. The 2nd is a (secret) modded ZS6. The 3rd is a ZS10.

Based on how I modded the ZS6 and the resulting FR graphs, I personally believe there was something *very* wrong with the ZS10 that thephonegraph.net received.

Stock ZS6:

 

Secret modded ZS6:


Stock ZS10:


(ignore the fact that the phonograph.net FR graph goes to 24kHz)


----------



## phower (Apr 14, 2018)

WildSeven said:


> I did checked my current ZS6 with my TFZ King and my T7A as reference.
> 
> Here's the result:
> 
> ...



Dynamic drivers are usually unbalanced in the upper treble region while BA's should be matched very closely.  Re-reading your original post about this problem, I would suggest that you repeat this exercise with somebody else preferebly someone < 25 years old and confirm the findings.

Wearing IEM's for several hours per day is not advisable since it gets too hot inside your ear and it promotes bacterial growth and the resulting inflammation might cause hearing loss.

Why don't you visit an audiologist?

P.S. The earphones should be fitted the same way in both ears to have the same treble response since it  is sensitive to positioning.


----------



## Vestat

WildSeven said:


> I clean my ears regularly so I doubt there are any build up inside my right ear, but I will get someone to look at it with a scope tonight. Fingers crossed, I hope there's nothing wrong with my right ear.


Consider that sometimes excessive cleaning can help the creation of earwax masses if not done properly. I also suggest you to see your doctor that will tell you if there is some problem. Earwax is an easy problem to solve.


----------



## DSebastiao

How do the TFZ King compare to KZ?


----------



## Mellowship

KZ ZS5v1.


----------



## archy121

EssentialEDM said:


> I have a bit more time now. Soundstage on these isn't massive, it doesn't have that inside your head sound but I wouldn't say it extends more than an inch outside of your head. Imaging is great on these although it is more horizontal than vertical. Seperation is much better than my zs5, much less congested sounding and veiled. I have just tested using an eq, they respond very well to it as sub bass is very detailed once boosted, I found that a v shaped eq sounded best to me. I thought highs were good on these already but using an eq really let's the ba's shine as vocals are brought more forward.
> 
> I hope that was helpful as I haven't much experience in writing one of these.
> 
> Here's a pic of it in my ear:



Thanks again for taking the time. 
Seems you are pretty happy with them playing EDM after eq changes.

To further improve the sound for EDM you should try different tips with wider bore as I have found this can help increase soundstage and overall immersiveness. The standards tips seem to have a narrow bore. 

The nozzle has been described as short. 
Do the iem tips reach deep and seal well ? Also do the iem’s stay comfortable and in place for a long periods of listening ?


----------



## WildSeven (Apr 14, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> How do the TFZ King compare to KZ?


If you are talking about comparing it to zs6 then I'd say the King wins in every aspect except that treble spike. King is pretty balanced and thanks to that graphene driver they sound fantastic with EDM and female vocal.
But I am a treble freak and I like the zs6 treble cannon, that's why the King's been sitting in the box collecting dust.

The built on the King is a little sloppy, you can see a 0.5mm gap between the metal face plate and the plastic housing, dust can get hidden and that's my only dislike. They do fit better then the zs6, and seals better.

Right now the zs6 sound signature suits me and is my favorite at the moment.


----------



## charlescc2

So I ordered a second KZ Bluetooth cable, this one appears to be a slightly different version of the prior one I bought.  To put my first cable into discoverable mode you have to hold the plus and play buttons at the same time while the cable is off.  This method is not working for my second cable, nor is any other combination of button presses.  I've tried everything with the cable both on and off.  It does turn on, but I also do not hear the beep notification that I get on my first cable when holding plus after the cable is at max volume, so I think something may be wrong with the plus button.

Is there something I'm missing here or does this sound like a defective cable?


----------



## Slater (Apr 14, 2018)

charlescc2 said:


> So I ordered a second KZ Bluetooth cable, this one appears to be a slightly different version of the prior one I bought.  To put my first cable into discoverable mode you have to hold the plus and play buttons at the same time while the cable is off.  This method is not working for my second cable, nor is any other combination of button presses.  I've tried everything with the cable both on and off.  It does turn on, but I also do not hear the beep notification that I get on my first cable when holding plus after the cable is at max volume, so I think something may be wrong with the plus button.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing here or does this sound like a defective cable?



All of my KZ bluetooth cables work exactly like this (click for larger view):



So if yours won't do these functions, I would say it's defective.


----------



## Aparker2005

Mine from Nick haven't shipped either. Still processing


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> Hmmm, does anyone see any similarities between the *last 2* FR graphs below?
> 
> 1st is a stock ZS6. The 2nd is a (secret) modded ZS6. The 3rd is a ZS10.
> 
> ...


Now that sounds interesting and mysterious. First, is this the ZS6 washer mod (or why is the mode secret?). Second, what is wrong with your last two FR graphs?


----------



## Slater (Apr 14, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Now that sounds interesting and mysterious. First, is this the ZS6 washer mod (or why is the mode secret?). Second, what is wrong with your last two FR graphs?



No, not washer modded. This was mods to the ZS6 BA drivers, and affects >4kHz.

The point was the striking similarities between the middle graph (ie my new modded ZS6) and the last graph (stock ZS10 f/thephonograph.net)


----------



## WildSeven

Definitely better then stock.
Small piece cut from the white part on a swiffer duster, removed one thin layer on one side.


----------



## bsoplinger

WildSeven said:


> Definitely better then stock.
> Small piece cut from the white part on a swiffer duster, removed one thin layer on one side.…


That's to tame the ZS6 treble?


----------



## WildSeven

bsoplinger said:


> That's to tame the ZS6 treble?


I like treble, not mean to tame it but to smooth it.


----------



## Otto Motor

Has anybody received the ED15? I'll get the ZS10 on Tuesday and the ED15 shortly thereafter - both are in the hands of Canada Post.


----------



## TLDRonin

WalterTorino said:


> Damn it! So many different opinions!
> I have to try to listen to the zs10. May be it's not so bad as i thought...)


I really don't think its fair to call the ZS10 bad after so little reviews


----------



## snip3r77

Slater said:


> Yeah, neutral really isn't KZs thing. Most of what they have (that's readily available, not discontinued models) is v or u shaped.
> 
> If you truly want a neutral IEM in the KZ price range, get the graphene dynamic driver BlitzWolf BW-ES1. Then do a few simple but very specific mods to it (requiring only a few simple items like a needle, tape, etc). It is about as flat as a pancake as you're going to get without spending a lot more $$. You will be shocked by the results, with the end result punching way above it's price range.


Most of kz iem is tuned strangely and neutral is the last thing that you're going to find here


----------



## snip3r77

Slater said:


> My T2 hasn't arrived yet. I don't even think it's been shipped yet. I got caught in the anufacturing shortage during the Aliexpress sale.
> 
> @Otto Motor should be able to answer this question though. Pretty sure he has both.


I'm on the same boat as you. Nice hck shipping on Monday . It's 2 weeks lmao.

Some other items have already reached


----------



## charlescc2

Slater said:


> All of my KZ bluetooth cables work exactly like this (click for larger view):
> 
> 
> 
> So if yours won't do these functions, I would say it's defective.



Perfect, this does it.


----------



## kramercosmo

I have 4 pair of ATE/ATR with broken cable or bad connector. 

1. How hard is it to mod with Mmcx connector?  I already have soldering iron.

2. How and why do some of you have ventholes in ATE/ATR?


----------



## themindfreak (Apr 15, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I ordered the ZS10's from NiceHck and they have not even shipped yet





Aparker2005 said:


> Mine from Nick haven't shipped either. Still processing



When did you place your order? My ZS10 from NiceHCK has just reached Singapore. I placed my order before the big aliexpress sale

Edit: Just checked aliex, I ordered on the 23rd of May


----------



## HungryPanda

I placed my order first day of the recent anniversary sale


----------



## themindfreak

You might wanna PM Jim from NiceHCK and ask him about stock inventory of ZS10. I don't believe they don't have the stock to ship to you


----------



## Aevum (Apr 15, 2018)

Anyone thinks KZ is too sensative to critics  and that is ruining their high end IEMs ?

The ZS5 was good, a bit blurry with some detail retrival issues and treble rolloff, combined with the 2nd armature in the middle of the casing instead of the usual nuzzle.
so we get the ZS5 v2 and the ZS6 which have a dual armature in the nuzzle which improves detail but overshoots with the treble making them fatiguing for long use or treble rich songs, even with some sources making them unusable with sibilance.

Now the ZS10 while having 4 armatures + DD per side we are seeing a Treble roll off and a darker earphone, meaning that they crippled the treble due to the critics of the ZS6.

I think KZ shoild stop and retune the headphones outside  input from criticism.


----------



## Slater

Aevum said:


> Anyone thinks KZ is too sensative to critics  and that is ruining their high end IEMs ?
> 
> The ZS5 was good, a bit blurry with some detail retrival issues and treble rolloff, combined with the 2nd armature in the middle of the casing instead of the usual nuzzle.
> so we get the ZS5 v2 and the ZS6 which have a dual armature in the nuzzle which improves detail but overshoots with the treble making them fatiguing for long use or treble rich songs, even with some sources making them unusable with sibilance.
> ...



My thoughts exactly: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2039#post-14172573


----------



## Bartig

So much judging going on while the majority of us didn’t even test the ZS10 yet...


----------



## Slater (Apr 15, 2018)

Bartig said:


> So much judging going on while the majority of us didn’t even test the ZS10 yet...



My comments were based on personally owning the ZS6, both versions of the ZS5, and the FR graph posted by thephonograph.net (science FTW). I didn't even read thephonograph's review because I didn't want to be biased by their opinion.

It's obvious from the ZS10 FR graph that there's signficant treble roll-off; this cannot be denied. Maybe thephonograph.net got a defective pair and there's no treble roll-off at whatsoever - I'd love to be proven wrong.

So armed with that knowledge, coupled with ownership of and  months & months of listening to the ZS5 v1, ZS5v2, and ZS6, I don't feel that my observation was just blind/baseless judging.


----------



## WalterTorino

TLDRonin said:


> I really don't think its fair to call the ZS10 bad after so little reviews


Nothing personal to the zs10  I thought that zs10 is bad for me because of amount of bass. I didn't want to say that zs10 is bad at all, just not what I'm looking for


----------



## zazaboy

@Otto Motor where did you buy the kz zs10 and ed15 ? which seller has them in stock ?


----------



## archy121

Slater said:


> My thoughts exactly: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2039#post-14172573



When is your zs10 arriving ?

I’m really looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Slater

archy121 said:


> When is your zs10 arriving ?
> 
> I’m really looking forward to your impressions.



I’m waiting for all sellers to get plenty of stock, and for it to start going on sale at places like gearbest.

I didn’t mind missing out on the free upgrade cable or free pair of EDR1, because I have plenty of both.


----------



## CYoung234

Slater said:


> My comments were based on personally owning the ZS6, both versions of the ZS5, and the FR graph posted by thephonograph.net (science FTW). I didn't even read thephonograph's review because I didn't want to be biased by their opinion.
> 
> It's obvious from the ZS10 FR graph that there's signficant treble roll-off; this cannot be denied. Maybe thephonograph.net got a defective pair and there's no treble roll-off at whatsoever - I'd love to be proven wrong.
> 
> So armed with that knowledge, coupled with ownership of and  months & months of listening to the ZS5 v1, ZS5v2, and ZS6, I don't feel that my observation was just blind/baseless judging.



Sorry to poke some holes in your thinking here, but the point was that a lot of opinions and buy or not buy decisions are being made here on very little information. I find it interesting that you do not want to read the review at thephonograph.net in order to not be biased by their opinion, yet you accept their FR graph at face value? Seems a bit premature. Maybe they measured a defective pair, maybe there was a problem with their test setup, who knows. Maybe they are spot on.

I guess the point is that maybe we should all wait a bit until more reviews are posted before making such "observations". The truth will emerge over time. I know I voted with my wallet, but have not received my pair of ZS10's yet. But, when I get them, I will post observations, not before. I also have a lot of experience with the ZS5v1 and ZS6 to base my opinions on, but I prefer to wait.


----------



## j0nb0y

Am I the first to receive these???


----------



## j0nb0y




----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> Sorry to poke some holes in your thinking here, but the point was that a lot of opinions and buy or not buy decisions are being made here on very little information. I find it interesting that you do not want to read the review at thephonograph.net in order to not be biased by their opinion, yet you accept their FR graph at face value? Seems a bit premature. Maybe they measured a defective pair, maybe there was a problem with their test setup, who knows. Maybe they are spot on.



Sure, you make perfectly valid points.

We are each responsible for our own choices, just like we’re all each entitled to our own opinions. If you chose to vote with your wallet without hearing the ZS10, that’s your right as a consumer.

I chose not to read thephonograph.net’s review because I didn’t want individual hearing or new toy bias playing a part in my observations. A microphone used to measure FR has no hype train or new toy bias. It has no age-related hearing loss. It has no difference of opinion based on musical genre used for testing. It’s just a scientific piece of equipment used for taking unbiased readings.

Now, granted it’s unknown what measuring setup they have, whether it’s using IEC standard couplers and calibrated mics. So yeah, just like any scientific hypothesis, it can be proven right, proven wrong, or revised as more data presents itself.

Don’t worry, I’ll get my own ZS10 eventually, take my own measurements, etc.

But let me leave you with this thought to ponder. Let’s say 50 of us all get our ZS10 and post opinions - you, me, thephonograph.net, Billy Bob, Johnny John. How do any of us know we all received identical ones (with no QC differences)? And the fact remains that as all 50 of us receive our ZS10 and post our opinions, but they are just that - opinions. So if a new guy comes along, and is thinking of getting a ZS10, he could make the same argument - that everything available is just someone’s opinion, and the only way he will really know what it sounds like is to just order a ZS10 for himself and make his OWN opinion. But that just adds to the pile of unscientific opinions for the next guy. See the dilemma?


----------



## s2kPanda

I got my ZS10, sounds great right outta the box to my ears. People who rely on FR graphs can go spend 800 on some CA Andromedas instead.


----------



## j0nb0y (Apr 15, 2018)

First assessment pre-burn in is actually great.

Treble is sharp and not as rolled off as what others have said. Crisp but not piercing.

Mids are present but not as forward as the Tin Audio T2s.

Bass is booming, enough for EDM and works well for other genres. Not brain shaking like the t2s with the vent closed but still fun.

Separation and clarity is excellent.. Best I have heard myself. Soundstage good but not great.

Not sure what I prefer though... Don't think they'll steer me away from the T2s just now. Maybe after burn-in... Will see!!


----------



## CYoung234

Slater said:


> Sure, you make perfectly valid points.
> 
> We are each responsible for our own choices, just like we’re all each entitled to our own opinions. If you chose to vote with your wallet without hearing the ZS10, that’s your right as a consumer.



cut for brevity



Slater said:


> But let me leave you with this thought to ponder. Let’s say 50 of us all get our ZS10 and post opinions - you, me, thephonograph.net, Billy Bob, Johnny John. How do any of us know we all received identical ones (with no QC differences)? And the fact remains that as all 50 of us receive our ZS10 and post our opinions, but they are just that - opinions. So if a new guy comes along, and is thinking of getting a ZS10, he could make the same argument - that everything available is just someone’s opinion, and the only way he will really know what it sounds like is to just order a ZS10 for himself and make his OWN opinion. But that just adds to the pile of unscientific opinions for the next guy. See the dilemma?



You also make valid points. I do not put quite as much faith in "science" as you seem to, for a couple of reasons. First, science today is pretty ripe with fraud, mainly due economic or political pressure. Second, some of the things you assume to be constant are not necessarily as constant as you would like to think. Your microphone, for example, being a transducer, can change over time, be damaged by dropping it, etc. 

However, your thoughts about the opinions of 50 different people are quite valid. My course has been to normally find people whose reviews and opinions tend to line up with my experience, and weight those higher than others when making my decisions. I value your opinions, for example. They are based on a lot of experience. This is very subjective, I realize. I have made some mistakes when selecting my iems using this method. But, I have gotten a large number of iems that I like a lot using this methodology as well.. So...


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## Slater (Apr 15, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> People who rely on FR graphs can go spend 800 on some CA Andromedas instead.



True, FR graphs are useless and serve no real purpose. I have no clue why we (and every manufacturer, and most reviewers) use them? I mean, it's not like they are a tool to help understand what we are hearing, or a subjective vs objective way to perform tuning and mods, right?

I mean, look at these examples of how useless they are:

_Silver plated vs stock copper cables on the ZS5:_


_The effects of impedance on the ZS6's treble:_


_Effects of vent tuning on the BlitzWolf EW1:_


_The difference between stainless vs stock nylon nozzle filters on the EDR2:_


_The effects of tip rolling on the ZS6:_


----------



## skedra (Apr 15, 2018)

j0nb0y said:


> First assessment pre-burn in is actually great.
> 
> Treble is sharp and not as rolled off as what others have said. Crisp but not piercing.
> 
> ...



Do you mind trying female vocals and sharing your opinion? I felt they were more behind than male ones


----------



## j0nb0y

skedra said:


> Do you mind trying female vocals and sharing your opinion? I felt they were more behind than male ones


Florence and the machine sound great. Just tried some Audrey Gallagher too and all good. 

I did try listening to some AC/DC and Lynyrd Skynyrd and I have to say they sounded bland and uninteresting... Not sure how to explain it.

It's almost as though there needs to be prominent bass in a track for the ZS10s to show any form of bass. These might not be suited for rock


----------



## rayliam80

DSebastiao said:


> Photos of the ZS10 are needed, to compare the colors.
> 
> Also, anyone got the green ZS6?



My green ZS6 should be arriving by next week from NiceHCK. We'll see.


----------



## skedra

j0nb0y said:


> Florence and the machine sound great. Just tried some Audrey Gallagher too and all good.
> 
> I did try listening to some AC/DC and Lynyrd Skynyrd and I have to say they sounded bland and uninteresting... Not sure how to explain it.
> 
> It's almost as though there needs to be prominent bass in a track for the ZS10s to show any form of bass. These might not be suited for rock



It felt to me like there's not enough sub bass which then in turn makes bass feel weaker at times. For example in "Neon Demon OST - the demon dance" the zs6 just shines but zs10 lacks something


----------



## j0nb0y

skedra said:


> It felt to me like there's not enough sub bass which then in turn makes bass feel weaker at times. For example in "Neon Demon OST - the demon dance" the zs6 just shines but zs10 lacks something


Time to burn these baby's in. Hoping for something great to come from it.


----------



## Pruikki

Popped in here to see whats new, Oh wow ZS10 is here!

anyone please share ur thoughts: *ZSR, how does it differ from new ZS10?*

I have KZ ZSR and i am wondering, is buying ZS10 gonna be a upgrade or just Different kind of sound. is it Better than ZSR in every way or worse in some? 


From Es3 to Zsr was a big WOW effect, could it be same with zs10?

thanks!


----------



## s2kPanda

Slater said:


> True, FR graphs are useless and serve no real purpose. I have no clue why we (and every manufacturer, and most reviewers) use them? I mean, it's not like they are a tool to help understand what we are hearing, or a subjective vs objective way to perform tuning and mods, right?
> 
> I mean, look at these examples of how useless they are:
> 
> ...



What point are you trying to prove being sarcastic? Hearing is subjective. FR responses don't make the headphone, it's the listener that does at the end of the day. You shouldn't determine something just by looking at a line graph. Quantitative data alone doesn't mean a thing if everyone interprets it differently, which in the case of headphones means every mother effing audiophile, headphone user, reviewer of headphones, dogs, cats, dolphins and pink donkeys. Not saying it doesn't matter, but it only tells you so much because we all interpret sounds differently.


----------



## Torac

archy121 said:


> Thanks again for taking the time.
> Seems you are pretty happy with them playing EDM after eq changes.
> 
> To further improve the sound for EDM you should try different tips with wider bore as I have found this can help increase soundstage and overall immersiveness. The standards tips seem to have a narrow bore.
> ...



They don't reach quite as deep inside my ear as my zs5 and do occasionally unseal, but I think that could be solved by foam tips.


----------



## zozito

rayliam80 said:


> My green ZS6 should be arriving by next week from NiceHCK. We'll see.


Waiting one in green also for next week.


----------



## Slater

s2kPanda said:


> Hearing is subjective.



Exactly. Hearing IS subjective. Just like FR data is objective.

There are those that use BOTH subjective *and* objective analysis, even if your belief is that "_people who rely on FR graphs can go spend 800 on some CA Andromedas instead_".

I'm done discussing this. This is way off topic.


----------



## antdroid (Apr 15, 2018)

I just picked up a pair of KZ ZS6 iems just for fun. I found them in the discontinued green color (via NiceHCK) which I think looks fantastic, even though they are a copycat of the Campfire Andromedas. For $35 USD, they arent bad, but the treble on these are crazy and not in a good way. I have been playing around with different tips and even with foam tips, which make treble rolled off typically, it's still pretty sibilant. I've read about mods to these, so I may play with that. Obviously my taste in headphones and IEMs are in the 10-20 times price range of these, but I wanted to hear what the hype was about. Plus they look neat. I may mess around with these a bit with modding or just give them to a friend. I have about 15 or so hours of burn-in on them. I feel like they've actually become more sibilant and peaky.


----------



## skedra

antdroid said:


> I just picked up a pair of KZ ZS6 iems just for fun. I found them in the discontinued green color (via NiceHCK) which I think looks fantastic, even though they are a copycat of the Campfire Andromedas. For $35 USD, they arent bad, but the treble on these are crazy and not in a good way. I have been playing around with different tips and even with foam tips, which make treble rolled off typically, it's still pretty sibilant. I've read about mods to these, so I may play with that. Obviously my taste in headphones and IEMs are in the 10-20 times price range of these, but I wanted to hear what the hype was about. Plus they look neat. I may mess around with these a bit with modding or just give them to a friend. I have about 15 or so hours of burn-in on them. I feel like they've actually become more sibilant and peaky.



I personally only heard improvement after 70-80h of burnin. But that's just me  otherwise I've heard people stuff cotton balls inside one BA driver to calm it down


----------



## Bartig

skedra said:


> It felt to me like there's not enough sub bass which then in turn makes bass feel weaker at times. For example in "Neon Demon OST - the demon dance" the zs6 just shines but zs10 lacks something


Yours and others comments on the (sub) bass are leading me to believe the KZ ZSR might actually better than the ZS10. Can’t wait to compare them around Tuesday.


----------



## s2kPanda

Slater said:


> Exactly. Hearing IS subjective. Just like FR data is objective.
> 
> There are those that use BOTH subjective *and* objective analysis, even if your belief is that "_people who rely on FR graphs can go spend 800 on some CA Andromedas instead_".
> 
> I'm done discussing this. This is way off topic.



You didn't discuss anything. All you did was sarcastically quote my post and then post a bunch of graphs. I mean if that's your idea of a discussion LOL.


----------



## Vestat

antdroid said:


> I feel like they've actually become more sibilant and peaky.



I have to admit that burning-in the zs6 is making me feel the trebles are getting more piercing and sibilant. I still like the soundstage and the sound energy but I was hoping the treble would become smoother.


----------



## Vestat

skedra said:


> I personally only heard improvement after 70-80h of burnin. But that's just me  otherwise I've heard people stuff cotton balls inside one BA driver to calm it down



this will be the next step.. at the moment I'm still waiting and burnin..
Will put some textile when I'll be definitely sure the trebles are like they are.


----------



## j0nb0y (Apr 16, 2018)

Some ZS10 porn for your viewing pleasure.

Still have high hopes for them. Wouldn't mind hearing others impressions on the lack of sub bass.


----------



## Torac

j0nb0y said:


> Some ZS10 porn for your viewing pleasure.
> 
> Still have high hopes for them. Wouldn't mind hearing others impressions on the lack of sub bass.



Eq helps a lot. Once you boost sub bass it's actually quite detailed.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 15, 2018)

Slater said:


> True, FR graphs are useless and serve no real purpose. I have no clue why we (and every manufacturer, and most reviewers) use them? I mean, it's not like they are a tool to help understand what we are hearing, or a subjective vs objective way to perform tuning and mods, right?
> 
> I mean, look at these examples of how useless they are:
> 
> ...



Dear s2kPanda, this guys writes here:
https://goo.gl/w7Xfje

"...*A Frequency Response graph is not in any way an indication of good sound quality.* Think of it as flavours, like in ice-cream. The FR is like the branding at the side of the tub telling you the flavour of the ice cream. It's not going to tell you if it's _good_ ice cream, but at least you have a way of finding out if it's the flavour you want..."

I side with Slater that observation (e.g. FR graphs) and interpretation (subjective listing impression) are unrelated and should be separated in every review.

*Time for some ice cream, folks!*


----------



## j0nb0y

EssentialEDM said:


> Eq helps a lot. Once you boost sub bass it's actually quite detailed.


I've got Viper4Android boosting 31Hz 63Hz and 125Hz and got Viper Bass boosting too. The sub bass is there definitely but there's something missing.

Listen to AC/DC - Thunderstruck and let me know what you think of it. It's not piercing but it's difficult to listen to.


----------



## skedra

j0nb0y said:


> I've got Viper4Android boosting 31Hz 63Hz and 125Hz and got Viper Bass boosting too. The sub bass is there definitely but there's something missing.
> 
> Listen to AC/DC - Thunderstruck and let me know what you think of it. It's not piercing but it's difficult to listen to.


This. They seem to not extend as low as they promise or maybe they need more power? I'll try my amp when I'm back home, even though LG v30 should just be able to easily push enough power for them...


----------



## j0nb0y

skedra said:


> This. They seem to not extend as low as they promise or maybe they need more power? I'll try my amp when I'm back home, even though LG v30 should just be able to easily push enough power for them...


Yeah I've ditched my Fiio Q1 as I'm getting enough from my HTC U11 when boosted with V4A.

Maybe not enough for the ZS10s?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 15, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> I really don't think its fair to call the ZS10 bad after so little reviews


There are generally four problems with inexperienced listeners:

1. Expectation bias
2. Optimistic listening
3. Denial
4. Faith-based listening ("burn-in", cable designs)

Nobody wants to admit to have wasted money on crappy earphones. Others are disappointed when the new iems don't sound exactly like they should. Others think they sound  fantastic, although they don't (the sobering moment comes later).

Everybody is to some extent prone to these fallacies, me included.

What helps is experience with benchmark earphones as testing standards and lots and lots of listening with different iems. Finally, it is advised to report the sound qualities of a new earphone only after extensive listening (cf. Tyll Hertsens of innerfidelity). I am certainly guilty of premature evaluation in the past.

UPDATE: my listening to $100 Sennheiser iems is definitely faith based and full of denial. I am not sure how much I have overspent on mediocrity. This has been going on for 1.5 years.


----------



## Aparker2005

Messaged nicehck. Hopefully my zs10 can ship this week. My ES3 have been absolutely amazing for my drumming iems. Hope the zs10 are even better!


----------



## Torac (Apr 15, 2018)

j0nb0y said:


> I've got Viper4Android boosting 31Hz 63Hz and 125Hz and got Viper Bass boosting too. The sub bass is there definitely but there's something missing.
> 
> Listen to AC/DC - Thunderstruck and let me know what you think of it. It's not piercing but it's difficult to listen to.



I had a listen, can't say I heard anything out of the ordinary, but my eq might be canceling that out. My eq is built into my phone and I think it does some other "enhancements" that I can't control so I'm not sure whether that makes a difference?
Here's my eq:


----------



## skedra

EssentialEDM said:


> I had a listen, can't say I heard anything out of the ordinary, but my eq might be canceling that out. My eq is built into my phone and I think it does some other "enhancements" that I can't control so I'm not sure whether that makes a difference?
> Here's my eq:


This could make hell of a difference considering you've got 6db up in low end etc. Try to turn it off and check then?


----------



## Torac

skedra said:


> This could make hell of a difference considering you've got 6db up in low end etc. Try to turn it off and check then?



I tried it without the eq on my phone and then through my ican se, there is not much sub-bass but I don't find it piercing as you say. Sorry i couldn't help, it's late where I am so I will probably stop replying now


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Aparker2005 said:


> Messaged nicehck. Hopefully my zs10 can ship this week. My ES3 have been absolutely amazing for my drumming iems. Hope the zs10 are even better!



Which colour did you order?

I’m also waiting from nicehck for a red one, but no sign of shipping yet!


----------



## Aparker2005

I got the black


----------



## HungryPanda

I ordered them in black


----------



## TLDRonin

Otto Motor said:


> There are generally four problems with inexperienced listeners:
> 
> 1. Expectation bias
> 2. Optimistic listening
> ...


Couldn't agree more


----------



## bsoplinger

HungryPanda said:


> I ordered them in black


Ah, that's your problem. Didn't you know that either the red and blue options will sound better because those colors allow more high frequency sound waves to pass through? I mean just look at graphs of amount of transmitted power when you shine a light through black, red and blue filters… 

Seems about as valid an argument as some I've seen. I agree that a FR graph by itself tells pretty much nothing useful. Two of them though, between 2 different IEMs and a huge 10db difference in one direction yet the reviewers comments in the opposite direction tell lots. Like there were fitment issues, user bias, etc because you can't have something swayed so far in one direction via simple measurements yet swayed as far in the other based on opinion without needing to question the value of the opinion.


----------



## Wiljen

Otto Motor said:


> There are generally four problems with inexperienced listeners:
> 
> 1. Expectation bias
> 2. Optimistic listening
> ...



I agree with all of the points and would add that we as a community have done inexperienced listeners ( and everyone else for that matter) a huge disservice by using statements like "punches above its weight", "Giant killer", "The best $500 headphone you can buy for $199".  The fact is, we have people believing that such things exist when 99.999% of the time they simply do not.   Sure, some products are better than we expect, but usually that means they are slightly ahead of the curve and 6 months from now a new expectation exists for what a product at that price point should be. If you read the hyperbole and expect that these "Giant Slayers" exist with the kind of frequency with which those terms show up in print, it is no wonder you have the expectation that your latest Chi-fi purchase is honestly as good as the much more costly products.  Since none of us has the opportunity or finances to do a comparison of every product, we all have to rely on others opinions to draw comparisons and this requires honest, hype free, realistic assessments.


----------



## rfsux (Apr 16, 2018)

nicehck store has wxxexxy earbuds.

edit: After commenting, I found out about the moderators' brand bans: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1859#post-14025217.


----------



## WildSeven

rfsux said:


> nicehck store has **** earbuds. probably same owners. who knows how slowwww china post air mail is?


You should edit your post and censor that wxxexxy word as this is prohibited in head fi. xD


----------



## WildSeven

bsoplinger said:


> Ah, that's your problem. Didn't you know that either the red and blue options will sound better because those colors allow more high frequency sound waves to pass through? I mean just look at graphs of amount of transmitted power when you shine a light through black, red and blue filters…
> 
> Seems about as valid an argument as some I've seen. I agree that a FR graph by itself tells pretty much nothing useful. Two of them though, between 2 different IEMs and a huge 10db difference in one direction yet the reviewers comments in the opposite direction tell lots. Like there were fitment issues, user bias, etc because you can't have something swayed so far in one direction via simple measurements yet swayed as far in the other based on opinion without needing to question the value of the opinion.


Just get all the color so can mix and match for fun, aren't they suppose to be blue on one side and red on the other?


----------



## Otto Motor

Wiljen said:


> I agree with all of the points and would add that we as a community have done inexperienced listeners ( and everyone else for that matter) a huge disservice by using statements like "punches above its weight", "Giant killer", "The best $500 headphone you can buy for $199".  The fact is, we have people believing that such things exist when 99.999% of the time they simply do not.   Sure, some products are better than we expect, but usually that means they are slightly ahead of the curve and 6 months from now a new expectation exists for what a product at that price point should be. If you read the hyperbole and expect that these "Giant Slayers" exist with the kind of frequency with which those terms show up in print, it is no wonder you have the expectation that your latest Chi-fi purchase is honestly as good as the much more costly products.  Since none of us has the opportunity or finances to do a comparison of every product, we all have to rely on others opinions to draw comparisons and this requires honest, hype free, realistic assessments.



*The Shoddy Shozy?*

This guy is just brutal(ly honest): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cri...ies-lcdi4-isine20-cipher-updated-8-11.857498/

An enteraining read!


----------



## paulindss

Otto Motor said:


> *The Shoddy Shozy?*
> 
> This guy is just brutal(ly honest): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cri...ies-lcdi4-isine20-cipher-updated-8-11.857498/
> 
> An enteraining read!



Interesting. I am wondering Where ibasso it01, Tin audio T2 and KZ Zs5 v1 Would fit in that list...


----------



## vladstef (Apr 15, 2018)

paulindss said:


> Interesting. I am wondering Where ibasso it01, Tin audio T2 and KZ Zs5 v1 Would fit in that list...



I'd say a high ranking for T2 but other 2 probably stand very little chance - he commented how IT01 is an ok V shaped IEM for 100$, so wasn't very impressed. Imagine what he'd think of ZS5 then...
Even T2 has quite apparent flaws but at least it's remotely natural sounding in the mid range.


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> The v2 cable is just plain BT 4.2 - no aptX. I've used the KZ Bluetooth modules on the ZST, ZS3, ZSR, ZS5, and ZS6. I personally like it best on the ZST - you can't even tell it's bluetooth vs wired on the ZST.
> 
> It has a 3-4 hour battery life, although you will find that it can have poor range and sometimes EMI interference issues due to a defect in the antenna design. The antenna can be corrected via a mod though.
> 
> ...



Good to know! I got the KZ Bluetooth for gym sessions but it's very weak on ZS3 and decent on ZST. Would be the Xiaomi an upgrade regarding SQ and power over KZ?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 15, 2018)

paulindss said:


> Interesting. I am wondering Where ibasso it01, Tin audio T2 and KZ Zs5 v1 Would fit in that list...


I'd speculate ibasso IT-01 in tear C (like the Focal Sphear) and Tinaudio T2 in tier C- (like the Fostex TE-02). KZ 5 v1. into D or D-, depending on what the author had for breakfast. ZS6 probably in tier E [predicted comment: "screaming, bass on vacation, design for pimps"] and VE Monk Plus into a Kinder surprise egg.


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> *The Shoddy Shozy?*
> 
> This guy is just brutal(ly honest): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cri...ies-lcdi4-isine20-cipher-updated-8-11.857498/
> 
> An enteraining read!



Thanks for bursting our bubble.


----------



## Slater (Apr 15, 2018)

rfsux said:


> nicehck store has wxxexxy earbuds. probably same owners. who knows how slowwww china post air mail is?



They are fierce competitors to one another, and not owned by the same people.

They try and duplicate each others products/similar products, as well as prices to anger and steal business from each other LOL

If you want to read about the "other" store, check the link in my signature.


----------



## FHSWarrior

Hello everyone! Wow, haven't posted on head fi in a good little while.

Anyway, I still have a left over 50$ visa gift card from Christmas and I dont know what to do with it so i figure why not a new budget IEM?

My last IEM i bought was the cotton candy colored KZ ZST. I'm sure many new KZ models have came out since and now im looking to know what's the current best overall?

I've been thinking about getting either the new MEE audio m6 pro gen 2, or whatever the best KZ model 50 bucks can buy.

I would just like to know the best current overall KZ is and also which KZ model has best vocals? Thanks!


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Makahl said:


> Good to know! I got the KZ Bluetooth for gym sessions but it's very weak on ZS3 and decent on ZST. Would be the Xiaomi an upgrade regarding SQ and power over KZ?



Do you have a link to the Xiaomi one @Slater  (since there seems to be a lot out there!)

Thanks in advance


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> Do you have a link to the Xiaomi one @Slater  (since there seems to be a lot out there!)
> 
> Thanks in advance



This is the one I have (and the only BT 4.2 that Xiaomi made that I'm aware of): https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html


----------



## Taters00 (Apr 16, 2018)

EDIT: added photo and reposted later in thread


----------



## bsoplinger (Apr 16, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *The Shoddy Shozy?*
> 
> This guy is just brutal(ly honest): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cri...ies-lcdi4-isine20-cipher-updated-8-11.857498/
> 
> An enteraining read!


Considering that the cheapest top category IEM is $1300 and the average price of that category tops $2000 is it any surprise at all that anything under $500 gets a rating of better than just "doesn't do anything wrong?"

The highest rated <=$100 IEM is the VSonic GR07 which I thought I remembered reading reviews here that didn't care for it. Got a B-


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 16, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Considering that the cheapest top category IEM is $1300 and the average price of that category tops $2000 is it any surprise at all that anything under $500 gets a rating of better than just "doesn't do anything wrong?"
> 
> The highest rated <=$100 IEM is the VSonic GR07 which I thought I remembered reading reviews here that didn't care for it. Got a B-



I went through the post and it was literally over $125,000 in IEMs. 

The information is "nice to know"......


 

but for me it's more of the same......


----------



## Vestat

FHSWarrior said:


> Hello everyone! Wow, haven't posted on head fi in a good little while.
> 
> Anyway, I still have a left over 50$ visa gift card from Christmas and I dont know what to do with it so i figure why not a new budget IEM?
> 
> ...



Hi, I can't really advise you to buy the MEE M6 pro. I bought it just before getting the ZS6 and there is no comparison between the two.
There are points of the M6 that are amazing.. like the ergonomics, they are light, very good accessory pack and definitely good value for money. But there is no chance for them to compete with the power and energy of the sound delivered by the ZS6. Soundstage of the ZS6 is much much better, bass response on another level, instrumental separation too.
M6 are good if you need some basic music to go for a run, their shape and lightness are awesome and they really stick to your ears. But the sound is nowhere close to the ZS6 apart of the sibilant trebles.
But don't get me wrong, M6 still deliver nice sound but the small driver is not exactly a monster in terms of technical sound production.
I don't have the tennmak pro but I would like to give them a shot. Their shape is very close to the M6 but they hold a double dynamic driver. Reading reviews they should sound much better than the M6 with a slightly lower price.

hope this helps.


----------



## bsoplinger

FHSWarrior said:


> Hello everyone! Wow, haven't posted on head fi in a good little while.
> 
> Anyway, I still have a left over 50$ visa gift card from Christmas and I dont know what to do with it so i figure why not a new budget IEM?
> 
> ...


Although there are some KZ models that are OK I'd argue that you might better spend $50 on other choices. There's a best under $100 Chinese IEMs thread. Just peruse the last few months worth of posts to find numerous choices along with at least a sketchy description of their sound profile. Most have better descriptions than just sketchy.


----------



## Nikostr8

j0nb0y said:


> Some ZS10 porn for your viewing pleasure.
> 
> Still have high hopes for them. Wouldn't mind hearing others impressions on the lack of sub bass.


pardon for my ignorance but , what is that black circle in the middle of the earphone??  it does has a vent hole?


----------



## skedra

Nikostr8 said:


> pardon for my ignorance but , what is that black circle in the middle of the earphone??  it does has a vent hole?


It has 3 vent holes as far as I can tell looking at it now


----------



## Nikostr8

skedra said:


> It has 3 vent holes as far as I can tell looking at it now


yeah but im talking about that black circle , i can see that there is a hole in  the middle of it.

I already know about the other 2 vent holes, just want to know what is that  black circle.


----------



## skedra

Nikostr8 said:


> yeah but im talking about that black circle , i can see that there is a hole in  the middle of it.
> 
> I already know about the other 2 vent holes, just want to know what is that  black circle.


Yes it is the vent for the DD.


----------



## Nikostr8

skedra said:


> Yes it is the vent for the DD.


thank you , the thing is ... that hole is sealed in my ZST , is it supposed to be sealed or open?? 

thank you again.


----------



## skedra

Nikostr8 said:


> thank you , the thing is ... that hole is sealed in my ZST , is it supposed to be sealed or open??
> 
> thank you again.


I have no idea if it's supposed to be sealed or open in the zst. Here it looks like there's a filter in it rather than it being completely open


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 16, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> thank you , the thing is ... that hole is sealed in my ZST , is it supposed to be sealed or open??
> 
> thank you again.


Better not to seal these hole cuz it work for dd not to be lapped.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yay my ZS10 has shipped


----------



## WalterTorino

HungryPanda said:


> Yay my ZS10 has shipped


Waiting for a review


----------



## Nikostr8

WalterTorino said:


> Better not to seal these hole cuz it work for dd not to be lapped.


do u recommend me to poke it with a needle?


----------



## Sito Lupion

I already have zs10 at home 
first positive impressions, they are big but they fit well and do not move from their place no matter how much you move your head, very good comfort. good bass with punching and sub, the media is well placed ... the highs seem to me somewhat artificial ... but I guess with the hours they will improve ...


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 16, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> do u recommend me to poke it with a needle?


Some people seal this hole to reach more powerful bass but it is kinda dangerous - dd may broke after some time. But there is a chance that everything will be ok.
Actually, you to decide. If I were you, I would have pierced it. But you must do it carefully.
For a beginning take a look on your headphones - may be there is a hole somewhere else so it is not necessary to poke another one.


----------



## Nikostr8

WalterTorino said:


> Some people seal this hole to reach more powerful bass but it is kinda dangerous - dd may broke after some time. But there is a chance that everything will be ok.
> Actually, you to decide. If I were you, I would have pierced it. But you must do it carefully.
> For a beginning take a look on your headphones - may be there is a hole somewhere else so it is not necessary to poke another one.


yeah i think im going to poke it , there is some kind of glue there blocking it, like glueing that black circle to the shell of the earphone ... if it supposed to be open then why did they even sealed it xd


----------



## Saoshyant

Panda you have about 600 other things to listen to at least while you wait


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Aparker2005

Nice said they only received a few of the zs10 and sent them based on who ordered first  Should be going out soon though !


----------



## WalterTorino

Nikostr8 said:


> yeah i think im going to poke it , there is some kind of glue there blocking it, like glueing that black circle to the shell of the earphone ... if it supposed to be open then why did they even sealed it xd


Mb it's just an error at the factory and the glue was spilled by accident. China)


----------



## WildSeven

WildSeven said:


> Definitely better then stock.
> Small piece cut from the white part on a swiffer duster, removed one thin layer on one side.



I've removed the large piece because putting this layer covers both the BA and also sound from the dynamic drivers.
I cut out 2 small dots and poked them inside the nozzle of bot BA, now that's what I call liquid sound, still bright but to my taste I love it.


----------



## Sourcesys (Apr 16, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I went through the post and it was literally over $125,000 in IEMs.
> 
> The information is "nice to know"......
> 
> ...



He tested $125k worth of iems...while studying?
If the roundup is legit, it's complete subjective anyway, thats what many people forget in this hobby.


----------



## Slater (Apr 16, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> yeah i think im going to poke it , there is some kind of glue there blocking it, like glueing that black circle to the shell of the earphone ... if it supposed to be open then why did they even sealed it xd



If it's white, then what you're seeing is a vent filter NOT glue.

The filter is a little round piece of white material, with a black adhesive ring. On the INSIDE of the shell, they stick the filter over the hole. When viewing from the outside of the shell, it can be easily mistaken that the hole is "blocked by glue". When in reality, all you're seeing is the white filter up against the hole.

The filter acts like both a filter for dust and debris, as well as a method to tune the amount of sound loss (usually bass/sub-bass depending on the design of the IEM) by means of air pressure restriction. It's similar to the way modders use micropore tape to tune vent holes by means of pressure restriction/regulation.

You can see what I'm talking about better here (this is a translucent ZST, but KZ and other manufacturers use this same basic setup on numerous IEMs). Because the shell is translucent, you can see the whole filter and black adhesive ring:





Here's what it looks like on a ZS5 (or any shell that's opaque and not translucent). See how it just looks white? This can be mistaken for a vent hole that's "blocked":


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 16, 2018)

Sourcesys said:


> He tested $125k worth of iems...while studying?
> If the roundup is legit, it's complete subjective anyway, thats what many people forget in this hobby.



Perhaps some were samples and/or borrowed but for $125,000 one could purchase a vacation home for annual vacations.




In the meantime my ZSR and ZS6 give me plenty of listening pleasure.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 16, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I went through the post and it was literally over $125,000 in IEMs.
> 
> The information is "nice to know"......
> 
> ...



I was told that you can try iems out in Asian super- and mega- stores. There, even a poor (wo)man can have an opinion on expensive earphones.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> I went through the post and it was literally over $125,000 in IEMs.





Sourcesys said:


> He tested $125k worth of iems...while studying? If the roundup is legit, it's complete subjective anyway, thats what many people forget in this hobby.





DocHoliday said:


> Perhaps some were samples and/or borrowed but for $125,000 one could purchase a vacation home for annual vacations.





Otto Motor said:


> I was told that you can try iems out in Asian super- and mega- stores. There, even a poor (wo)man can have an opinion on expensive earphones.



Crinacle tests them at audio shows, CanJams/meets, listening stores, gear evaluation tours, and owners lend them to him to evaluate and measure the FR on.

Believe me, he's a poor student and didn't buy the vast majority of those IEMs. He's a great guy though, and very knowledgeable.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Crinacle tests them at audio shows, CanJams/meets, listening stores, gear evaluation tours, and owners lend them to him to evaluate and measure the FR on.
> 
> Believe me, he's a poor student and didn't buy the vast majority of those IEMs. He's a great guy though, and very knowledgeable.



To me this would call in to question several things.
1.) Meets, canjams, shows, and stores are all likely to be no more than an hour with any given item and a lot of the time a good bit less than that.
2.) Those same locations are also rife with outside noises and generally make lousy places to do serious listening.

I would hope most were loaners where he had more than a few minutes to form an impression as I wouldn't want someone to judge me solely on a single 10 minute snippet of my existence on what was perhaps my worst day (as is the case with noise shows).


----------



## Slater (Apr 16, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> To me this would call in to question several things.
> 1.) Meets, canjams, shows, and stores are all likely to be no more than an hour with any given item and a lot of the time a good bit less than that.
> 2.) Those same locations are also rife with outside noises and generally make lousy places to do serious listening.
> 
> I would hope most were loaners where he had more than a few minutes to form an impression as I wouldn't want someone to judge me solely on a single 10 minute snippet of my existence on what was perhaps my worst day (as is the case with noise shows).



I'm going by what he's said before in his FR measurement thread. It does only take 5 minutes to take FR measurements, because I do FR measurements myself (using the same method crinacle used to use).

Also, it's not like it's unheard of (or not possible). Tyll wrote a rather in-depth review of the 1More H1707 Triple Driver Over-Ears based on listening at a show. It was that review that convinced me to buy the H1707 myself. I'm not saying it's a perfect or ideal situation, but sometimes it's the only chance you may ever get to evauate (or FR measure) $10k headphones. Beggars can't be choosers, right?


----------



## Wiljen

I agree with the FR post although those are usually best done in dead silence to avoid outside influence which is hardly possible in show situation.  And while not unheard of to form a reliable opinion in 5 minutes, I generally want to live with a product for several days to feel that I have done it justice.  If I am going to make a negative comment, I want to be sure nothing else is involved in the issue and it truly belongs to the device in question.  As an example, if I were to get a bad pairing of DAP to IEM at a show, it might cause me to artificially lower the score of the IEM (especially if using My personal DAP since we tend to think we know its tendencies and it couldn't be a problem with it, so must be this new IEM).


----------



## Nikostr8

Slater said:


> If it's white, then what you're seeing is a vent filter NOT glue.
> 
> The filter is a little round piece of white material, with a black adhesive ring. On the INSIDE of the shell, they stick the filter over the hole. When viewing from the outside of the shell, it can be easily mistaken that the hole is "blocked by glue". When in reality, all you're seeing is the white filter up against the hole.
> 
> ...


wow thank you for such developed answer , So I shouldnt  poke it then , right??


----------



## Slater (Apr 16, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> wow thank you for such developed answer , So I shouldnt  poke it then , right??



If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Especially when you run the risk of permanently damaging the DD driver, as the fragile diaphragm is only a few millimeters below the vent hole. Don’t ask me how I know LOL

Also, poking the hole will change the sound. You are tinkering with the tuning, because that’s exactly what the vent is for. Usually poking that vent hole will significantly reduce the sub-bass and lower bass.

I tinker with the vent holes all the time on IEMs, but I’m doing it with the purposeful intention of tuning, as well as specific tools and knowledge to not trash the driver.


----------



## Slater (Apr 16, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I agree with the FR post although those are usually best done in dead silence to avoid outside influence which is hardly possible in show situation.  And while not unheard of to form a reliable opinion in 5 minutes, I generally want to live with a product for several days to feel that I have done it justice.  If I am going to make a negative comment, I want to be sure nothing else is involved in the issue and it truly belongs to the device in question.  As an example, if I were to get a bad pairing of DAP to IEM at a show, it might cause me to artificially lower the score of the IEM (especially if using My personal DAP since we tend to think we know its tendencies and it couldn't be a problem with it, so must be this new IEM).



Sure, I agree.

I’m not saying it’s ideal, nor saying that’s what he does with all of the gear in his lists. But that’s how he’s gaining access to some of it (how much you’ll have to find out from him directly). He’s very respected and knows his stuff, so I’m sure he’s aware of the issue/danger.


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 16, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> wow thank you for such developed answer , So I shouldnt  poke it then , right??


If this is a filter, you better not to poke it of course.
If it is a glue - better to poke it.
Look closely to the hole.

Never thought that KZ put filters in a vent holes... 0_o

Even if you'll poke a filter nothing bad will happen. But if it is really a filter, so Slater is right and you don't need to break something what work properly.


----------



## Slater (Apr 16, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> If this is a filter, you better not to poke it of course.
> If it is a glue - better to poke it.
> Look closely to the hole.
> 
> ...



KZ has been using filters on the dynamic driver vent holes for a while now ATE, ATR, ED9, ZS5 (v1 & v2), ZST, ZS6, ZS10, ZSR, etc.

There’s others but I can’t remember all of them off the top of my head.

Poking a hole in the front vent filter will change the sound though.


----------



## Zlivan

Sebilion said:


> For anyone like me who still needs a microphone in their cable, I just discovered these two cables, I don't know their quality yet but I ordered them and when I receive them I'll tell you if they are worth it.
> 2 pin 0.75mm to 3.5mm Earphone Replacement Earbuds Exchange Cable w/ 3 Remote Buttons Gold Plated Straight Plug for KZ ED12 ES3
> http://s.aliexpress.com/beYVVbEB?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> ...



Cable from the second link just arrived and it's pretty good. Soft, almost no microphonics, controls work as expected. Thanks for pointing those out 

While on the subject of cables and if anyone's interested, I got myself a nice clothed mmcx cable with volume control also: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aipinchun-Soft-Earphone-Cable-With-Volume-Controller-Replacement-for-MMCX-Headphone-for-Shure-SE215-SE315-SE425/32848846227.html


----------



## Strat Rider (Apr 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> Hmmm, does anyone see any similarities between the *last 2* FR graphs below?
> 
> 1st is a stock ZS6. The 2nd is a (secret) modded ZS6. The 3rd is a ZS10.
> 
> ...



Lookin good Mr Slater, the secret mod looks good, but the zs10 looks too similar to be a "new" or different sound sig.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 16, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I was told that you can try iems out in Asian super- and mega- stores. There, even a poor (wo)man can have an opinion on expensive earphones.


Wish we had something similar here in the states. BestBuy is the only location we have here in sunny Northern California and their selection is lousy overpriced crap. My Superlux 668b outclasses everything on display. It would be worth a trip to Asia just to spend some quality time sampling higher tier gear. I'd literally spend several days just to get a clearer view of the IEM landscape. 

I know myself well enough, though. I'd much rather pour thousands into transforming something like this 



 

....into something like this:


 

The guy is asking $12k (top photo) and I can probably talk him into $9,500 cash in hand.

I'm content collecting KZ's and the like because there are some incredible backroads and coastal blacktop that deserve my attention; California ribbon that I won't get to explore in some heavy metal if I head down another expensive rabbit hole.

Just an issue of how much cash is allocated to each hobby. 

Because KZ exists I can do both.


----------



## nkramer

Slater said:


> Hmmm, does anyone see any similarities between the *last 2* FR graphs below?
> 
> 1st is a stock ZS6. The 2nd is a (secret) modded ZS6. The 3rd is a ZS10.
> 
> ...



certainly looks like the ZS10 a huge step in the right direction.


----------



## Slater (Apr 16, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> Lookin good Mr Slater, the secret mod looks good, but the zs10 looks too similar to be a "new" or different sound sig.



I can’t say how similar or different it is until I hear it for myself and measure it on my own rig. But yeah, since KZ is using combinations of the same drivers in many of these IEMs, they are somewhat limited in how different they can even sound.

For example, the ZSR has most of the same drivers as the ZS5 and ZS6, which is why it sounds “similar”. Not exactly the same, but similar. I’m sure a lot of people are going to jump on me for making that comment.  But the reality is that there’s only so many minor sound combinations you can make by using the same 10mm driver, and mashups of the same 2 BA drivers, right?

Of course the shell design and vents contribute to the end result.

In the past, they used many different drivers between models, which is why the ATE sounds so different from the EDR1, and the ED9 sounds so different from the HDS3.

I would really like KZ to go back to using different drivers, like graphene and biofiber. And varied shell materials, like the copper body of the ED9 or the wood body of the ED7.

I mean, they have yet to make a ‘proper’ wood bodied IEM (like the Magaosi BK50 or VJJB K4) and I know it would sell well.

Perhaps some of these reasons are why employees left KZ and founded TRN, just like employees left Audio Technica and founded KZ.


----------



## groucho69

WalterTorino said:


> If this is a filter, you better not to poke it of course.
> If it is a glue - better to poke it.
> Look closely to the hole.
> 
> ...


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> I can’t say how similar or different it is until I hear it for myself and measure it on my own rig. But yeah, since KZ is using combinations of the same drivers in many of these IEMs, they are somewhat limited in how different they can even sound.
> 
> For example, the ZSR has most of the same drivers as the ZS5 and ZS6, which is why it sounds “similar”. Not exactly the same, but similar. I’m sure a lot of people are going to jump on me for making that comment.  But the reality is that there’s only so many minor sound combinations you can make by using the same 10mm driver, and mashups of the same 2 BA drivers, right?
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> I would really like KZ to go back to using different drivers, like graphene and biofiber. And varied shell materials, like the copper body of the ED9 or the wood body of the ED7.



I've been wanting KZ to design a top notch dynamic driver. I was hoping that this model would fill the the void in KZ's lineup but it clearly states "Hybrid Technology".


 

By the way, I was unaware of the TRN-Knowledge Zenith tie-in but it makes sense.


----------



## CoiL

YZ63 is on my watch list also. Its shape kinda reminds me my VE NUN-mod I did long time back.
Big ~16mm dynamic strapped on my ear - only thinking about it makes me feel better ;D


----------



## Saoshyant

@DocHoliday You reminded me of how much I hate coastal route 1.  Might be nice if I hadn't been driving, but wow it's awful for me as the driver.  5 hours to go 100 miles.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 16, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> @DocHoliday You reminded me of how much I hate coastal route 1.  Might be nice if I hadn't been driving, but wow it's awful for me as the driver.  5 hours to go 100 miles.



Yeah.....the best way to do it is to stop here for lunch, stop there to put your toes in the sand, take in the scent of the ocean breeze and so on. A nonstop point to point (100 mile trek) when you have to be somewhere makes it difficult to enjoy. The girlfriend gets carsick on the winding bits so when we pull in to a sandy beach area I have to throw her over my shoulder to get down to the shoreline. 

No KZ's along for the ride, though; only clean and clear Infinity's.


----------



## Saoshyant

Yeah, I got talked into it because a buddy wanted to see.  Not my ideal way to get to Monterey.


----------



## Prim8NChief

Anybody here know what size tips I need for KZ ZST? Is it a 5 mm? I'm looking at these New Bees. Are these the correct size?


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> By the way, I was unaware of the TRN-Knowledge Zenith tie-in but it makes sense.



Yeah, I was wondering what the scoop was on TRN as soon as they appeared on the scene with the V10. The design, look, cable, etc all reminded me too much of KZ and I knew they were related somehow.

I just assumed KZ was acting as an ODM for TRN, until I found out about the true nature of TRN (ex-KZ employees). It all made sense at that point.

I wish them well. The V10 was a lofty freshman offering, even though it had problems. The fact that they came out with the V20 so quickly and it addressed many of the issues with the V10 shows me that they are fast becoming a ChiFi force to recon with for sure. I will certainly be keeping my eye on them in the future, and see myself at least trying one of their IEMs at some point (perhaps the upcoming V30). I already own (and love) a few of their upgrade cables.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yeah, I was wondering what the scoop was on TRN as soon as they appeared on the scene with the V10. The design, look, cable, etc all reminded me too much of KZ and I knew they were related somehow.
> 
> I just assumed KZ was acting as an ODM for TRN, until I found out about the true nature of TRN (ex-KZ employees). It all made sense at that point.
> 
> I wish them well. The V10 was a lofty freshman offering, even though it had problems. The fact that they came out with the V20 so quickly and it addressed many of the issues with the V10 shows me that they are fast becoming a ChiFi force to recon with for sure. I will certainly be keeping my eye on them in the future, and see myself at least trying one of their IEMs at some point (perhaps the upcoming V30). I already own (and love) a few of their upgrade cables.



The TRN V10 is no KZ ZSR but I was actually surprised at how much I enjoyed them when out and about town, given how severely the midrange is recessed.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Apr 16, 2018)

Anyone else order the T2 from NiceHCK during the sale? Mine still haven't shipped. According to a message I received from them last week, it's due to production shortages and they said it should be resolved by sometime around today, though I still haven't heard anything.

Kind of weird that they would still show so much stock if we're approaching 3 weeks to fulfill a product that was supposed to be stocked then.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> I've been wanting KZ to design a top notch dynamic driver. I was hoping that this model would fill the the void in KZ's lineup but it clearly states "Hybrid Technology".





CoiL said:


> YZ63 is on my watch list also. Its shape kinda reminds me my VE NUN-mod I did long time back.
> Big ~16mm dynamic strapped on my ear - only thinking about it makes me feel better ;D



I have my eye on that KZ model as well.

I wonder what the configuration of the TRN V30 will be?


----------



## Slater

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Anyone else order the T2 from NiceHCK during the sale? Mine still haven't shipped. According to a message I received from them last week, it's due to production shortages and they said it should be resolved by sometime around today, though I still haven't heard anything.
> 
> Kind of weird that they would still show so much stock if we're approaching 3 weeks to fulfill a product that was supposed to be stocked then.



I did.

It doesn't bother me though. It will come eventually, once the factory catches up.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> I have my eye on that KZ model as well.
> 
> I wonder what the configuration of the TRN V30 will be?



Well, by the shape of V30 I predict 2 possible setups:
1) dual-dynamic (one large, one micro) + 1BA
2) medium size DD + 1 BA

Btw, I just bought Rose North Forest for 15.9$ ;P


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Well, by the shape of V30 I predict 2 possible setups:
> 1) dual-dynamic (one large, one micro) + 1BA
> 2) medium size DD + 1 BA



Yes, agreed. The nozzle looks quite large (enough for even 2 BAs like the KZ ZS6/ZSR), or for a dynamic micro driver in the nozzle (like the KZ HDS2 and others).



CoiL said:


> Btw, I just bought Rose North Forest for 15.9$ ;P



Nice!


----------



## riffrafff

rayliam80 said:


> My green ZS6 should be arriving by next week from NiceHCK. We'll see.



My green ZS6's arrived today.  No lip on the nozzle, FWIW, but with a proper seal, sounds pretty good.  Gotta do a *whole* bunch more tip rolling...these are easily the most uncomfortable IEMs I own.


----------



## skedra

riffrafff said:


> My green ZS6's arrived today.  No lip on the nozzle, FWIW, but with a proper seal, sounds pretty good.  Gotta do a *whole* bunch more tip rolling...these are easily the most uncomfortable IEMs I own.


Put foam tips on, don't look back


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Slater said:


> I did.
> 
> It doesn't bother me though. It will come eventually, once the factory catches up.


I'm only slightly annoyed that they weren't more upfront about the stock. This order was placed after a different seller cancelled my sale order, due to the T2 turning out to be out of stock.

Thanks though, it's somewhat of a relief to know that someone else shares my plight.


----------



## rayliam80

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Anyone else order the T2 from NiceHCK during the sale? Mine still haven't shipped. According to a message I received from them last week, it's due to production shortages and they said it should be resolved by sometime around today, though I still haven't heard anything.
> 
> Kind of weird that they would still show so much stock if we're approaching 3 weeks to fulfill a product that was supposed to be stocked then.



I ordered the Tinaudio T2 and the KZ ZS10 together from BS during the last day of the Anniversary Sale. My order still hasn't shipped yet. Unsure which one is holding up the order or maybe both at this point - the only response from them is that it's shipping soon. I'll have to extend processing time by tomorrow again most likely. I'm expecting my other stuff from NiceHCK from the Anniversary Sale any day now since it's in the USPS system.


----------



## black_sephirot

Just got ZS10, in a quick try, the sound signature is quite similar to ZSR, for me the fit is pretty good, better than ZSR, but not better than Zs3, also is the isolation, I don't feel the lack of bass so much, I like it very much, and they are beautiful.


----------



## Wiljen

Keep hoping my Zs10 will show up, no news yet but I remain optimistic that it will arrive fairly soon.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Taters00

*repost from earlier in the thread... forgot to add picture last time*

 
Not sure if anyone’s seen this yet, but KZ’s released general specs and a photo for the ZS4... looks like it uses the ZS3 shell but with a BA + DD. Hopefully it’ll be a good one because the ZS3 fits really well!
http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zs4-technical-specifications-and-photo-revealed-news/


----------



## HungryPanda

New KZ's, we're like


----------



## Wiljen

I think I was one of the few people that found the fit of the zs3 great but the sound bad enough that I never really got much use out of them.  I would have preferred to see them go a beryllium, carbon nanotube, titanium or some other premium dynamic as adding a Balanced Armature is not going to clean up the Dynamic in it which is still going to leave the mid-bass bleed and muddy bass.  The most I think we can hope for is better mids and treble with the same bass issues as before if they didnt do come cleanup.


----------



## Saoshyant

@Wiljen driver transplant time?


----------



## snip3r77

EssentialEDM said:


> Eq helps a lot. Once you boost sub bass it's actually quite detailed.


In this case you can buy any iem and eq out a sound that you like


----------



## Wiljen

Saoshyant said:


> @Wiljen driver transplant time?



I'm not that talented a surgeon on these things and honestly there are enough other choices out there that is isnt worth it to me to try.  I put them in drawer and moved on.   We are all different that way. I have a set of Zs5V1 that sit in a drawer too as they just were not a favorite for me.  Not that they were bad, just that they didn't displace my daily drivers so they don't get much time.   The Zs6 got more listening time than most and still gets used outdoors where I don't want to risk a more expensive pair of iems.


----------



## Makahl

Wiljen said:


> I think I was one of the few people that found the fit of the zs3 great but the sound bad enough that I never really got much use out of them.  I would have preferred to see them go a beryllium, carbon nanotube, titanium or some other premium dynamic as adding a Balanced Armature is not going to clean up the Dynamic in it which is still going to leave the mid-bass bleed and muddy bass.  The most I think we can hope for is better mids and treble with the same bass issues as before if they didnt do come cleanup.



In fact, that was my first impressions too regarding ZS3. So I needed to figure out those things:

- Acoustic tuning foam was out of place so I needed to open the mesh to check it and insert them into the tube again.
- 2pins sockets came wired inverted causing polarity issues. Then bass and overall sound were pretty odd. (I'd suggest checking that on https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php).
- Right tubing placed a bit crooked so I need to insert them shallow to get a full sound.

After fixing those things ZS3 sounds way better, just bad I can't get decent volume using them on KZ Bluetooth module. But tbh the ZS4 is the only KZ I'm looking forward! If they manage to fix nozzle and treble extension that's going to be a winner.


----------



## Wiljen

I wish I could say my pair was poorly made and that was the root cause but I have checked all those things and still find them to have very pronounced mid-bass bleed, muddy bass, and no top end extension to speak of.  Maybe I got a bad pair and for $3.99 I am not going to spend too much time crying about it, but I won't be jumping on the Zs4 hype train either.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I think I was one of the few people that found the fit of the zs3 great but the sound bad enough that I never really got much use out of them.  I would have preferred to see them go a beryllium, carbon nanotube, titanium or some other premium dynamic as adding a Balanced Armature is not going to clean up the Dynamic in it which is still going to leave the mid-bass bleed and muddy bass.  The most I think we can hope for is better mids and treble with the same bass issues as before if they didnt do come cleanup.



Hard to say.

If it has any of these 3 things, it's going to be a 100% pass for me:

1. same dynamic driver as ZS3
2. same lame-o "heat shrink tubing" sound tube as ZS3
3. 30095 BA driver

Although I would prefer one, I can live with no crossover. The ZST and ES3 didn't have one, and they're OK.


----------



## riffrafff

skedra said:


> Put foam tips on, don't look back



Ah, I screwed up. After fiddling about with the stock tips and deciding they didn't work for me, I grabbed (what I thought was) my go-to triple-flange tips (they typically work best for my ear anatomy; only a couple of my IEMs have foamies on 'em).  Gah, I grabbed the large ones in my haste, and wondered why they were so bloody uncomfortable.  All better now.  D'oh!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 17, 2018)

*KZ ZS10 have arrived in Calgary - first impressions*

I knew they were coming today and warmed my ears up with the ZSR and the Fidue A65. The A65 are a good price-point reference ($59 list). They are excellent earphones that would have deserved some hype - but are obviously not flashy enough. The A65 are presently my favs even above the basso IT-01 (they are not better but easier to handle, cable wise and earpiece wise).

Here reviews of the A65 - which will live on in the audiophile community forever (or not):
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fi...dynamic-driver-iem.20798/reviews#review-13473

As I had pointed out yesterday...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2047#post-14176420

...one has to spend some time with any iem in order to be able to get an objective, unbiased view. But I also find the first impression important. In analogy, a first handshake can determine whether the other person will be your future wife/husband. For example, when first plugging the HDS3 and the ZSR into my ears, I went spontaneously "wow". But after the first impression with the ZS10, I will shut up for some time. And I'll leave the detailed reviews to others, more experienced head-fiers while still learning the trade.


*ZS10 - first impressions and some quick answers to non-existing questions.*

*Fancy stock cable included: *yes!
*
Fit:* no problem here, but all KZ models have fit my ears well.

*Haptic: *similar to ZSR but not as swanky as the ZS6!

*Wow or not wow upon the very first listening (yes or no only):* No...but I didn't use the audioquest dragonfly.

*Is there anything obviously really wrong:* No! Makes for a fatigue-free listening.

*What is the tonal balance:* iPhone 5S (1 ohm output impedance) only...treble ok, mids recessed, the prominent bass is muddy, smudges into the mids and removes fluidity and coherence from the presentation, image could be more transparent. Well resolving, though. Adding the audioquest dragonfly (0.3 ohm output impedance) tightens the bass substantially, brings the voices out and makes the image sleaker and more transparent. Tony Vivaldi sounds much more accurate and natural with the dragonfly.

*How do they compare to other recent KZ models (ZS6, ZSR), sound wise:* warmish, darkish, sound like a better rendering ZSR with a wider soundstage (without dragonfly, brighter with). Not much similarity to the ZS6.

*Are they a huge step up for KZ:* No! Just one step farther. The ZS6 may be still technically better [just checked it: yes, they are way more natural and coherent sounding].

*What is the value for money. Is the hype justified:* Value for money (I paid $33) is great. Hype is not justified imo.

*Do they sound like $999 earphones as claimed by someone else, or are they at least as well resolving as the UE900S ($399 list; $179 sale):* Absolutely not! The single-dynamic driver Fidue A65 has a better resolution and a more fluid, cleaner, more transparent and a more natural presentation.

*Early verdict (after 3 hrs of listening):* Good, worth the money but still not the miracle earphone, not even when amped. You need to add some technology added to the iPhone for the ZS10 bring out their best. The ZS6 are the better earphone imo and the ZSR may be more fun.

Will listen more tomorrow!
*
Gear: *iPhone 5S with and without audioquest dragonfly.
*Break-in: *1 hr after some defrosting...we have had 3 inches of wet snow today going towards 7 inches later this afternoon.
Large stock tips used.

EDIT: amping with the FiiO E12 Montblanc (like the phonograph), the image smoothens even more than with the audioquest dragonfly.

When playing with Macbook Air, the ZS10 sound slimmer than with the iPhone.
*

Music used:*

Café Zimmerman - Tony Vivaldi (Concerto pour deux violons...)

The New Mastersounds - Renewable Energy (album)

The Housemartins - Build (remastered)

The Beautiful South - Song For Whoever (remastered)

Diana Krall - All For You (album)

Matt Bianco - Gravity (album)

Toto - Greatest Hits (2017 version)

Hildegard Knef: Herr Kalecke an der Ecke

Brix & The Extricated - LA

Coco Schumann - Stripper Blues

Eric Clapton - Unplugged (album)

Sade - Diamond Life (Japanese remastered album)

Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms (25th anniversary edition album)

*


 

 *


----------



## Slater (Apr 16, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 have arrived in Calgary - first impressions*
> 
> **



They certainly look ginormous enough.

Could you take a photo of the ZS10 next to a micro driver, such as the HDS1, HDS2, HDS3, MEMT X5?


----------



## ShakyJake (Apr 16, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Anyone else order the T2 from NiceHCK during the sale? Mine still haven't shipped. According to a message I received from them last week, it's due to production shortages and they said it should be resolved by sometime around today, though I still haven't heard anything.



My T2 (and ZSR) from NiceHCK shipped out on 3/30. It is currently somewhere over the Pacific, probably in tow after @Slater 's "swimmer friend" since I didn't pay for upgraded shipping .


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 have arrived in Calgary - first impressions*
> 
> 
> *What is the tonal balance:* Treble ok, mids recessed (bummer!), the prominent bass is muddy, smudges into the mids and removes fluidity and coherence from the presentation, image could be more transparent. Well resolving, though.
> ...



From this page https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5s-audio-quality.htm  the output impedance is around 1 ohm which might be high since multi-driver IEMs have widely swinging impedance and will affect the sound. Try some other players with < 1 ohm output impedance. 

The resonance of an headphone/IEM is usually in the bass region. The energy in the driver has to flow back into the amplifier and that can happen only if the source impedance is low. Then the bass will be tight and well controlled.


----------



## paulindss

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 have arrived in Calgary - first impressions*
> 
> I knew they were coming today and warmed my ears up with the ZSR and the Fidue A65. The A65 are a good price-point reference ($59 list). They are excellent earphones that would have deserved some hype - but are obviously not flashy enough. The A65 are presently my favs even above the basso IT-01 (they are not better but easier to handle, cable wise and earpiece wise).
> 
> ...



I have a zs10 on the way. And a ZSR in dispute process on gearbest. The zs10 can substitute the ZSR ? Minding that i need a fun iem in my collection. I wanna know If i will miss something If i ask for refund instead of re-sending the package of the zsr. Having a zs10.


----------



## Slater

paulindss said:


> I have a zs10 on the way. And a ZSR in dispute process on gearbest. The zs10 can substitute the ZSR ? Minding that i need a fun iem in my collection. I wanna know If i will miss something If i ask for refund instead of re-sending the package of the zsr. Having a zs10.



Can't go wrong with ZSR man. I'd put it in the top 3 IEMs KZ has made to date.


----------



## paulindss (Apr 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> Can't go wrong with ZSR man. I'd put it in the top 3 IEMs KZ has made to date.



Thx, i Will keep that in mind then.

Edit: my cm5 Will reach home in 2 or 3 days


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 16, 2018)

phower said:


> From this page https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5s-audio-quality.htm  the output impedance is around 1 ohm which might be high since multi-driver IEMs have widely swinging impedance and will affect the sound. Try some other players with < 1 ohm output impedance.
> 
> The resonance of an headphone/IEM is usually in the bass region. The energy in the driver has to flow back into the amplifier and that can happen only if the source impedance is low. Then the bass will be tight and well controlled.


Will use my audioquest dragonfly with 0.3 ohm output. Hey, you are right, sounds much tighter in the hips now.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> They certainly look ginormous enough.
> 
> Could you take a photo of the ZS10 next to a micro driver, such as the HDS1, HDS2, HDS3, MEMT X5?



Bittesehr!


----------



## Otto Motor

paulindss said:


> I have a zs10 on the way. And a ZSR in dispute process on gearbest. The zs10 can substitute the ZSR ? Minding that i need a fun iem in my collection. I wanna know If i will miss something If i ask for refund instead of re-sending the package of the zsr. Having a zs10.


Just with the iPhone, I prefer the image of the ZSR, although the ZS10 resolves better. Adding the external dragonfly dac/amp shows better resolution in the ZS10 compared to the ZSR. Overall, the ZSR may be more fun.


----------



## antdroid

After listening more to the KZ ZS6, I dont know.  It sounds terrible stock. I'm probably at 50+ hours of burn/listening time now. The highs are piercing and way too much, even with foam. Now, that said, I eq'd it on my EarStudio and on my PC and it sounds actually pretty good. It's not as good as my iSine 10 or the MD+ but it can hang on it's own pretty well with some eq.


----------



## Freetrademan

I just got my ZS10 today. My first impression: it's probably the best earphone I've ever heard. 

And I have had a lot. My favorite had been the ZS5 (more than the ZS6, which I find harsh at the high end). Better than my OneMore Triple, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, FiiO EX-1, Shures, Klipsch, and many others I've paid a lot more for. 

The most immediately noticeable difference compared to the ZS5 is the midrange. The ZS5's weakest area (as much as I love it) is the midrange. The ZS10 remedies that, with a better midrange and overall fuller sound. I'm looking forward to many hours with the ZS10.


----------



## lmfboy01

Freetrademan said:


> I just got my ZS10 today. My first impression: it's probably the best earphone I've ever heard.
> 
> And I have had a lot. My favorite had been the ZS5 (more than the ZS6, which I find harsh at the high end). Better than my OneMore Triple, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, FiiO EX-1, Shures, Klipsch, and many others I've paid a lot more for.
> 
> The most immediately noticeable difference compared to the ZS5 is the midrange. The ZS5's weakest area (as much as I love it) is the midrange. The ZS10 remedies that, with a better midrange and overall fuller sound. I'm looking forward to many hours with the ZS10.


----------



## lmfboy01

I prefer ZS6 sound much more than the ZS10 by a far amount too.


----------



## toddy0191

My ED15s will be delivered today. Hopefully £9 well spent!


----------



## Otto Motor

Otto Motor said:


> Will use my audioquest dragonfly with 0.3 ohm output. Hey, you are right, sounds much tighter in the hips now.





lmfboy01 said:


> I prefer ZS6 sound much more than the ZS10 by a far amount too.



I just put the ZS6 in: they produce music more natural and more homogenous than the ZS10, despite their 10K peak.


----------



## Bartig

Wiljen said:


> I think I was one of the few people that found the fit of the zs3 great but the sound bad enough that I never really got much use out of them.  I would have preferred to see them go a beryllium, carbon nanotube, titanium or some other premium dynamic as adding a Balanced Armature is not going to clean up the Dynamic in it which is still going to leave the mid-bass bleed and muddy bass.  The most I think we can hope for is better mids and treble with the same bass issues as before if they didnt do come cleanup.


No no, I’m all with you.



Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 have arrived in Calgary - first impressions*
> 
> I knew they were coming today and warmed my ears up with the ZSR and the Fidue A65. The A65 are a good price-point reference ($59 list). They are excellent earphones that would have deserved some hype - but are obviously not flashy enough. The A65 are presently my favs even above the basso IT-01 (they are not better but easier to handle, cable wise and earpiece wise).
> 
> ...


Excellent first impressions. Hope to receive mine today.


----------



## CoiL

Wiljen said:


> I'm not that talented a surgeon on these things and honestly there are enough other choices out there that is isnt worth it to me to try.  I put them in drawer and moved on.   We are all different that way. I have a set of Zs5V1 that sit in a drawer too as they just were not a favorite for me.  Not that they were bad, just that they didn't displace my daily drivers so they don't get much time.   The Zs6 got more listening time than most and still gets used outdoors where I don't want to risk a more expensive pair of iems.


Please send me You ZS5v1, I luv them soo much with my gear and preferences ;P


----------



## themindfreak (Apr 17, 2018)

Received my ZS10 today. First impressions tonality and sound wise they really do sound good. Wide stage, slightly dark sound but treble is still clean and can be heard perfectly well with a thumpy tight bass. I think this is KZ's best attempt at vocals to date, no sibilance or unnecessary peaks unlike the ZSR but to me the vocals are still too thin. All good so far until the sound stage. Its so messed up.. The staging and instrument placement don't even sound right at all like what the hell? The bass kick drums sound as if its in my head and behind me and the vocalist also sound inside my head while the instruments are out of my head..? I really want to believe my unit has a internal wiring issue tbh but I don't think it is.. And yes i know how to put the cables polarity correctly. Its the same feeling I had with the ZS5V1 staging issue.. Can anyone confirm if their ZS10 have such vocal and instrument placement issues?

Edit: Btw fit was good for me, no sharp edges hitting my ear and it stays put in my ear even when i move my head about

EDIT 2: WHAT IT WAS THE CABLES THAT HAD POLARITY REVERSED, JUST TRIED MY ZST CABLE AND IT WORKED WOW


----------



## Slater (Apr 17, 2018)

themindfreak said:


> Received my ZS10 today. First impressions tonality and sound wise they really do sound good. Wide stage, slightly dark sound but treble is still clean and can be heard perfectly well with a thumpy tight bass. I think this is KZ's best attempt at vocals to date, no sibilance or unnecessary peaks unlike the ZSR but to me the vocals are still too thin. All good so far until the sound stage. Its so messed up.. The staging and instrument placement don't even sound right at all like what the hell? The bass kick drums sound as if its in my head and behind me and the vocalist also sound inside my head while the instruments are out of my head..? I really want to believe my unit has a internal wiring issue tbh but I don't think it is.. And yes i know how to put the cables polarity correctly. Its the same feeling I had with the ZS5V1 staging issue.. Can anyone confirm if their ZS10 have such vocal and instrument placement issues?
> 
> Edit: Btw fit was good for me, no sharp edges hitting my ear and it stays put in my ear even when i move my head about



Assuming the track isn’t recorded that way, and the drums sound “normal” on a different set of earphones or headphones, the drums “behind you” is a classic symptom of out-of-phase speakers.

Did you try the phase test tracks on audiocheck.net? There’s also a really good one I like on YouTube: 

So try reversing the wire on 1 side, and if that doesn’t clear it up, my money is on 2 or more drivers wired up wrong internally. With (10) drivers that all need to be wired up perfectly, (8) of them being microscopic BA drivers, it would not surprise me in the least bit if we hear about more of this happening.


----------



## themindfreak

I tried reversing the ZS10 cable and it still doesnt seem to sound correct. (Meaning i put the left cable on the left earphone but in the reverse way). It seems I'll stick to my ZST cables and hopefully exchange my faulty one for from Nicehck


----------



## themindfreak

Freetrademan said:


> I just got my ZS10 today. My first impression: it's probably the best earphone I've ever heard.
> 
> And I have had a lot. My favorite had been the ZS5 (more than the ZS6, which I find harsh at the high end). Better than my OneMore Triple, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, FiiO EX-1, Shures, Klipsch, and many others I've paid a lot more for.
> 
> The most immediately noticeable difference compared to the ZS5 is the midrange. The ZS5's weakest area (as much as I love it) is the midrange. The ZS10 remedies that, with a better midrange and overall fuller sound. I'm looking forward to many hours with the ZS10.


After 30 mins of listening to my ZS10 I totally agree with you. Hell this ZS10 is a true winner legit not even kidding. And if anyone is thinking I'm trying to hype the ZS10, hell yea I'm hyping it right now cause its that good. Its seriously on the level of my Sony xba n3 and nicehck hk6 and its going to be in my weekly routine.


----------



## Ynot1 (Apr 17, 2018)

Choo Choo! Train seems to be building steam but not yet rolling.


----------



## toddy0191 (Apr 17, 2018)

Hello ED15! Going to give them a listen at lunch.


----------



## Slater

themindfreak said:


> I tried reversing the ZS10 cable and it still doesnt seem to sound correct. (Meaning i put the left cable on the left earphone but in the reverse way). It seems I'll stick to my ZST cables and hopefully exchange my faulty one for from Nicehck



At least it was just a bad cable and not the ZS10 internal wiring.


----------



## Bartig

themindfreak said:


> Received my ZS10 today. First impressions tonality and sound wise they really do sound good. Wide stage, slightly dark sound but treble is still clean and can be heard perfectly well with a thumpy tight bass. I think this is KZ's best attempt at vocals to date, no sibilance or unnecessary peaks unlike the ZSR but to me the vocals are still too thin. All good so far until the sound stage. Its so messed up.. The staging and instrument placement don't even sound right at all like what the hell? The bass kick drums sound as if its in my head and behind me and the vocalist also sound inside my head while the instruments are out of my head..? I really want to believe my unit has a internal wiring issue tbh but I don't think it is.. And yes i know how to put the cables polarity correctly. Its the same feeling I had with the ZS5V1 staging issue.. Can anyone confirm if their ZS10 have such vocal and instrument placement issues?
> 
> Edit: Btw fit was good for me, no sharp edges hitting my ear and it stays put in my ear even when i move my head about
> 
> EDIT 2: WHAT IT WAS THE CABLES THAT HAD POLARITY REVERSED, JUST TRIED MY ZST CABLE AND IT WORKED WOW


I guess all readers here had a big phat PHEW after edit 2.


----------



## themindfreak

Bartig said:


> I guess all readers here had a big phat PHEW after edit 2.


Yeap that includes myself as well HAHA. Lucky me


----------



## toddy0191 (Apr 17, 2018)

Very brief impressions of ED15 as only had a quick 30 min listen direct from s8.

There is no piercing treble which seems like a new feature of KZ hybrids and no sibilence that i can detect.

Bass is very north of neutral and extends down deep.  It seems a little loose with some mid bass bleed at the moment but this may change.

Mids and treble seem balanced and I would describe them as L shaped.

Female vocals sound nice.

Will have a good listen with my xduuo x3 tonight.

They are really heavy and the cable is fantastic especially for the price.


----------



## jmwreck

Slater said:


> This is the one I have (and the only BT 4.2 that Xiaomi made that I'm aware of): https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html


if I may suggest, Mpow also has one and is much better


----------



## F4yze (Apr 17, 2018)

KZ ZS10 is in the house!!


Looks really nice, but the workmanship could be better. The BAs on the ride side is a little bit slanted.


I straight away switched to foam tips and tried it on with the upgrade cable. The foam tips is a little bit longer than the stock tips so it provides a good seal, no problem. Surprisingly the iems are not as huge as I thought, and due to the gentler contours, it's a much comfortable fit compared to my zs6. In fact, it's a very comfortable fit so far. The right side did exhibit a bit of a driver flex but hopefully it won't be a huge issue.

Now sound wise, it's pretty damn impressive to me. Comparing to my modified zs6 (slater's washer mod and ba mod), it has a very similar sound signature right out of the box. My zs6 has a little bit more punchier bass however. Hopefully the zs10 bass would improve after a few hours of burn in . Speaking of bass, it's definitely there. Even the sub bass rumble is strong. I'm not familiar with terms like "treble roll off" so I can't be of a huge help here, but all I can say is I'm really satisfied with it, so far. Listening to Low by Mura Masa kinda hurt my ears with the zs6 even after the mod, but not so much with the zs10. Not much of a difference in terms of soundstage. Separation is a little better. Female vocals (AURORA) sounds good to me, although I'm sure there are iems that sounds better.

Overall, it's a winner to me. Granted, I'm not an extreme audiophile by any means. My past/current iems include Carbo Basso, KZ ZS6, Tennmak Pro, Alpha and Delta AD01 (all of them leans towards being bass heavy). With such a similar sound signature to my modified zs6, I do feel like I'm wasting my money a little bit. But the tame trebles makes me feel a little better bout my purchase hahaha. The zs10 will definitely be my main driver for now. One day I may do the washer mod just for kicks. The nozzle diameter is a little bit smaller than the zs6 so the washer can't be inserted in but it does sit flushed on top.

Audio source: LG V30 with the hifi DAC enabled, Lenovo Y50 laptop.

Edit: On a second listen to both my zs6 and the zs10, the zs10 has way better mids to me.


----------



## skajohyros

Freetrademan said:


> I just got my ZS10 today. My first impression: it's probably the best earphone I've ever heard.
> 
> And I have had a lot. My favorite had been the ZS5 (more than the ZS6, which I find harsh at the high end). Better than my OneMore Triple, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, FiiO EX-1, Shures, Klipsch, and many others I've paid a lot more for.
> 
> The most immediately noticeable difference compared to the ZS5 is the midrange. The ZS5's weakest area (as much as I love it) is the midrange. The ZS10 remedies that, with a better midrange and overall fuller sound. I'm looking forward to many hours with the ZS10.



Zs5 v1 or V2?


----------



## B9Scrambler

toddy0191 said:


> Hello ED15! Going to give them a listen at lunch.



Cant wait!! Really excited for this one. Mine has been having shipping issues


----------



## snip3r77

Can you


F4yze said:


> KZ ZS10 is in the house!!
> 
> 
> Looks really nice, but the workmanship could be better. The BAs on the ride side is a little bit slanted.
> ...


 Help me compare with tenmmak pro?


----------



## HungryPanda

B9Scrambler said:


> Cant wait!! Really excited for this one. Mine has been having shipping issues


Me as well but I have been messaged to have patience even though the second tracking number is not recognized either


----------



## B9Scrambler

HungryPanda said:


> Me as well but I have been messaged to have patience even though the second tracking number is not recognized either



The second one they gave me also showing cancelled, lol. Official KZ Store?


----------



## HungryPanda

B9Scrambler said:


> The second one they gave me also showing cancelled, lol. Official KZ Store?


Yes that is correct


----------



## F4yze

snip3r77 said:


> Can you
> 
> Help me compare with tenmmak pro?



It's miles ahead of the tennmak pro. The tennmak pro is waaay too bassy even for me. The zs10 bass is smoother with good detail in both the treble and mids.


----------



## toddy0191

B9Scrambler said:


> The second one they gave me also showing cancelled, lol. Official KZ Store?





HungryPanda said:


> Yes that is correct



Weird!! Mine are from the KZ Official Store too.

Think they are going to need some foams on as I'm getting a vacuum like seal with the starlines that's creating a negative pressure in my ears. I also get this with the EDR1.

As I mentoned above though the cable is a massive upgrade form the rubbery cables of old with 4 cables weaved below the y split and going to 2 above on each side.

Looking forward to having a good listen after work tonight.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 17, 2018)

*Quick And Very Subjective Comparisons Of The ZS 10 With...*


*iBasso IT01:* Holy Jesus are the iBasso a treat in comparison: Diana Krall's voice sounds so much nearer, fuller, and more natural. The whole image is very airy. The ZS10's stage sounds shallow in comparison and Diana distant. And yes, one iBasso is worth more than two ZS10 to me.

*Fidue A65:* Again, more three dimensionality and fluidity in this single dynamic driver competitor. Diana sounds seductive and vivid, the stage is open and deep, the bass is more controlled.

*KZ ZS6:* Also more natural sounding with a more controlled bass.

*KZ ZSR:* The ZS10 is similar sounding and technically superior (resolution, soundstage, no sibilance) but can't match the ZSR in the voice department. The ZSR's warm and full voice reproduction makes it look good against more expensive iems...and fun. The ZSR remains my KZ multi-driver favourite.

*HDS1:* Well...the HDS1 is technically inferior however very natural sounding and overall very pleasant at 1/10 of the ZS10's price.

*Summary: *To me, the sound of the iBasso and Fidue make a huge difference to the listening pleasure.  The ZS10 sound shallow and congested (at bassy pieces) to me. If you want an outstanding earphone at around $50, order the Fidue while keep looking at photos of the ZS10. If you have the ZS6 and like it, then the ZS10 is probably redundant. Considering that KZ uses 5 drivers in the ZS10, the mids are not present enough for my taste, but they are not as nasal as in the ZS5 v1 at least. Bass could also be more controlled. And the whole presentation could be more homogeneous (or "balanced" as they say). In the end it comes down to "not bad/quite good for 40 bucks" depending on your iem collection. In my collection, they will have their place probably mainly for looks as yet another larval stage of the forthcoming KZ super earphone - the holy grail of this thread.

See you at the next hype...the ED15 are coming!

*Equipment Used: *iPhone 5S with music by Diana Krall.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 17, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *Quick And Very Subjective Comparisons Of The ZS 10 With...*
> 
> 
> *iBasso IT01:* Holy Jesus are the iBasso a treat in comparison: Diana Krall's voice sounds so much nearer, fuller, and more natural. The whole image is very airy. The ZS10's stage sounds shallow in comparison and Diana distant. And yes, one iBasso is worth more than two ZS10 to me.
> ...



I've been curious about whether or not the ZS10 would be a more refined (resolution, layering and imaging) version of the HDS1 sound signature. At your earliest convenience would you mind comparing the two on the following tracks (with your Dragonfly please):

Thanks Otto!


Spoiler













 










With everyone having access to these same exact files there might be more consistency in impressions because the current handful of impressions seem to be all over the place.

Again, when you can and thanks Otto!


----------



## skedra

Otto Motor said:


> *Quick And Very Subjective Comparisons Of The ZS 10 With...*
> 
> 
> *iBasso IT01:* Holy Jesus are the iBasso a treat in comparison: Diana Krall's voice sounds so much nearer, fuller, and more natural. The whole image is very airy. The ZS10's stage sounds shallow in comparison and Diana distant. And yes, one iBasso is worth more than two ZS10 to me.
> ...



With testing a bit more I found ZS10 needs more power and also lower impedance (iPhone 5s has 4.5ohm which is quite high for this I think). So tests with dragonfly would be nice. Also Is that with foam or silicone? I switched to silicone because foam was making the treble too laid back


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> *Quick And Very Subjective Comparisons Of The ZS 10 With...*
> 
> 
> *iBasso IT01:* Holy Jesus are the iBasso a treat in comparison: Diana Krall's voice sounds so much nearer, fuller, and more natural. The whole image is very airy. The ZS10's stage sounds shallow in comparison and Diana distant. And yes, one iBasso is worth more than two ZS10 to me.
> ...


The iBasso uses graphene drivers while the fidue uses titanium coated drivers. Graphene and titanium make the diaphragm rigid. The highly rated Koss KSC75 and Porta pro also use titanium drivers. 
So, it might be your prefer those timbres. From what I know, BAs have very fast attack and decay and might sound different. 

Anyways, thanks for you honest opinion rather than feed the hype train.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 17, 2018)

phower said:


> The iBasso uses graphene drivers while the fidue uses titanium coated drivers. Graphene and titanium make the diaphragm rigid. The highly rated Koss KSC75 and Porta pro also use titanium drivers.
> So, it might be your prefer those timbres. From what I know, BAs have very fast attack and decay and might sound different.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for you honest opinion rather than feed the hype train.


Not necessarily! I also treasure my 4 BA driver UE900S. And my beloved ZSR also sports 2 BA drivers.

And every burn-in fan will dismiss my report after only 1 hour of it anyway...relying on the ZS10 will excel 150 hours later . All hope is not lost yet.


----------



## C2thew

So I received my EDR1's in the mail and to me they sound like the KZ ZS3 without the "amazing seal" that you get from the ZS3.  Sure they have the ZS3 sound signature but that was about it.  I didn't detect any extreme amounts of bass as was hyped about.   The packaging is nice but packaging means nothing when all I want is comfort and sound over aesthetics.  The cable on the EDR1 is nice but i've gotten so used to the memory wire on the stock ZS3 cables that it feels weird.  So far I feel it was just a  "Meh" purchase.

The TRN bluetooth cable came in the mail yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised that it did not affect the sound quality from my LG V20.  Yes the LG v20 has a Quad DAC built into the headphone jack however the bluetooth 4.2 carried over which was surprisingly pleasant.  When paired with my KZ ZS6, I honestly wasn't impressed.  The ZS6's rely on the memory wire which isn't present on the TRN cable.  I NEED THE MEMORY WIRE!!!.  I'm probably the only person that is a strong advocate of the memory wire on the KZ headphones.  When I paired my ZS3's with the TRN bluetooth adapter.... it was like a match made in heaven.  I mean the ZS3 naturally has a strong seal in the ear and delivered the same audio quality as if it were connected via cable. 

What is even more interesting is that if you increase the volume on the phone and then increase the volume on the bluetooth cable, the sound gets blistering loud.  The bluetooth cable has 15 increments of volume.  The source also controls volume as well so if the volume in your phone is at minimum, your bluetooth is increasing volume based on the sound of the audio source.  If the phone volume is at max, you can adjust the volume on the bluetooth cable to maybe 3/15 stops and it will sound normal.  This concept applies to all bluetooth speakers/headphones etc.

I am probably ordering another set of ZS3's in the future or perhaps the ZS4 if that ever gets released.

Still waiting for my ZS10's though i'm not sure i'm going to be satisfied as my zs3's to date.

pictures to be continued


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 17, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I've been curious about whether or not the ZS10 would be a more refined (resolution, layering and imaging) version of the HDS1 sound signature. At your earliest convenience would you mind comparing the two on the following tracks (with your Dragonfly please):
> 
> Thanks Otto!
> 
> ...




I'd say the HDS1 and the KS10 differ vastly in the bass department: the HDS1's bass is much slimmer. I have only done this on the Diana Krall yet but will update this post later today after listening to the rest of it. And the ZSR excels even more with the dragonfly...

*Update: *

Setup: iMac + audioquest jitterbug + audioquest dragonfly

Most of the videos didn't work in Canada but I may have some of the songs in my iTunes library.

Above & Beyond: Yeah, the HDS1 sound slimmer in the mid bass. ZS10 bass comes too close to the vocals for my taste, which congests the image. Quite frankly, I prefer the timbre and the openness of the HDS1.

Diana Krall - Baby All the Time. Similar! The HDS1 have quite some depth (Diana's voice) with an unobtrusive bass. Actually amazing sound quality. With the ZS10 you get a mid bass again pushing again the vocals. Diana's voice is a bit cleaner but also more distant also with some depth. I then used the HDS3 which comes closer to the ZS10, but is overall a bit softer and relaxed. HDS3 bass is similar to the ZS10 bass but not as intrusive. The HDS3 with the dragonfly also sound awesome.

Diana Krall - I miss you so. More Canadiana. This album sounds good with any device, though. HDS3 reproduces the double bass just right. Voice has width and depth. Image is fluffy. ZS10's overdoes the bass line again. Voice is still a bit recessed but ok and enjoyable (same with the previous track).

James Taylor - Fire and Rain. ZS10 with good resolution. Voice slightly drilling. Drums, when setting in
at 36 secs are a bit much. Midbass too much for me, e.g. cello. 3-dimensionality ok. HDS1: voice more natural, drums and cello just right for me.

Sade - King of Sorrow: With the HDS1 good transparency in the beginning. Resolution of the instruments and voice soso. The ZS10 render Sade's voice better (fuller) but the strong mid bass is bordering on awful, it decreases and congests the soundstage and compromises the listening fun. But hey, some people may like this signature...which is an example of  "unbalanced".

T. Pinnock/English Concert - Avison Concerto Grosso No.9. I pulled out the ZSR...resolves not as good as the ZS10 but has a more relaxed image, which is pleasant on my ears. The ZS10 have a bigger stage but sound uptight in comparison.

The other songs I don't have.

My opinion (subjective): I am surprised how good the technically inferior HDS1/3 sound. _*To me the ZS10 is the grandchild of the HDS3 and the person child of the ZSR.*_ It sounds ok with the dragonfly if you like a strong mid bass but why bother with a $40 earphone when having to spend $100 on a dac/amp.


----------



## snip3r77

Otto Motor said:


> Not necessarily! I also treasure my 4 BA driver UE900S. And my beloved ZSR also sports 2 BA drivers.
> 
> And every burn-in fan will dismiss my report after only 1 hour of it anyway...relying on the ZS10 will excel 150 hours later . All hope is not lost yet.



Thanks for the review. One step to IT01 is much better than sidegrading from KZ Z5, Z6 , ZXR , ZS10 etc bla bla


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 17, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I'd say the HDS1 and the KS10 differ vastly in the bass department: the HDS1's bass is much slimmer. I have only done this on the Diana Krall yet but will update this post later today after listening to the rest of it. And the ZSR excels even more with the dragonfly...



Yeah, I've postulated from the beginning that Knowledge Zenith should have used the 8mm DD instead of the ZSR's 10mm DD but I haven't heard the ZS10 so.......conjecture......

I think the 8mm DD would have given the ZS10 more nuanced characteristics as opposed to a variation (lifted mid to high frequencies) of the ZSR sound signature (if in fact the ZS10 is a variation of the ZSR); a hypothesis based on the commonality of drivers used in both IEMs.


----------



## Slater (Apr 17, 2018)

C2thew said:


> So I received my EDR1's in the mail and to me they sound like the KZ ZS3 without the "amazing seal" that you get from the ZS3.  Sure they have the ZS3 sound signature but that was about it.  I didn't detect any extreme amounts of bass as was hyped about.   The packaging is nice but packaging means nothing when all I want is comfort and sound over aesthetics.  The cable on the EDR1 is nice but i've gotten so used to the memory wire on the stock ZS3 cables that it feels weird.  So far I feel it was just a  "Meh" purchase.



Sounds like you are not getting a good seal, as the bass should be capable of skull crushing levels with a good seal.

The stock tips suck, and are the really old style KZ tips. Try KZ Starline tips, and I'll bet you will have a very different experience. Either that, or try increasing 1 size larger in tips.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, I've postulated from the beginning that Knowledge Zenith should have used the 8mm DD instead of the ZSR's 10mm DD but I haven't heard the ZS10 so.......conjecture......
> 
> I think the 8mm DD would have given the ZS10 more nuanced characteristics as opposed to a variation (lifted mid to high frequencies) of the ZSR sound signature (if in fact the ZS10 is a variation of the ZSR); a hypothesis based on the commonality of drivers used in both IEMs.



They must have mountains and mountains of the 10mm drivers, because it feels like KZ puts them in most of their IEMs...


----------



## toddy0191

Slater said:


> Sounds like you are not getting a good seal, as the bass should be capable of skull crushing levels with a good seal.
> 
> The stock tips suck, and are the really old style KZ tips. Try KZ Starline tips, and I'll bet you will have a very different experience. Either that, or try increasing 1 size larger in tips.



I have an issue with the EDR1s where if I insert them too far into my ear they create a super seal forming a negative pressure in my ear canal which is both really uncomfortable and badly effects the sound.  I have to have them in my outer ear so air can move out and they sound great. 

I can see a vent hole next to the strain relief so not sure why it's happening and thought the wise Slater may be able to proffer some advice!

This is also happening with the ED15s where the vacuum effect was strong enough to pull off the tip in my ear,. This is no mean feat as they attach strongly to the nozzle.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> I have an issue with the EDR1s where if I insert them too far into my ear they create a super seal forming a negative pressure in my ear canal which is both really uncomfortable and badly effects the sound.  I have to have them in my outer ear so air can move out and they sound great.
> 
> I can see a vent hole next to the strain relief so not sure why it's happening and thought the wise Slater may be able to proffer some advice!
> 
> This is also happening with the ED15s where the vacuum effect was strong enough to pull off the tip in my ear,. This is no mean feat as they attach strongly to the nozzle.



The vent hole next to the strain relief is a bass vent, and will not serve a pressure relieving function.

If you have a micro drill bit set, you could add a tiny pressure vent on the front side of the IEM. Something like 0.2 mm should be enough to vent pressure yet not affect bass. You would just have to be very careful not to damage the driver (although if you do, you're only out a few dollars).

I know what you mean about the suction effect. I get that with the ZS3, and it results in a very inconsistent experience.

The other thing you can try is foam tips. They won't allow the pressure buildup, since the air has a chance to escape before the foam fully expands. This is also a useful solution to IEMs with bad driver flex (also caused by pressure buildup).

Regardless, that's really unfortunate. You're really missing out by not experiencing what the EDR1 is fully capable of.


----------



## toddy0191

Slater said:


> The vent hole next to the strain relief is a bass vent, and will not serve a pressure relieving function.
> 
> If you have a micro drill bit set, you could add a tiny pressure vent on the front side of the IEM. Something like 0.2 mm should be enough to vent pressure yet not affect bass. You would just have to be very careful not to damage the driver (although if you do, you're only out a few dollars).
> 
> ...



They still sound great but it's a pain getting them in the right place.  Foams worked on the ED15s so will try on the EDR1s. 

Thanks!


----------



## toddy0191

Quick update on the ED15s.

Have switched to foams and the sound has really opened up.  Mids and highs sound clearer with great separation and there's no mid bass bleed.

The bass is extreme though, these are bass head level. Listening to "lose yourself to dance" by daft punk and my ear drums are shaking!!


----------



## Bartig

Received my KZ ZS10 and ZhiYin Z5000. Of course, I started comparing them instantly with my current personal favorite - the KZ ZSR. These are my first impressions:

ZhiYin Z5000 - Really phat bass and dark sounding. They really opened up with the KZ Starline eartips on them, which they needed for my taste. Now, the bass is still very strong, but the mids and highs opened up. It feels like a ‘faster’, somewhat more upfront version of the ZSR. I like them!

KZ ZS10 - Had great hopes for these, but seriously, they are like the ZSR with less bass and a little bit less soundstage, although they have more upfront mids and highs. I also have to press them in my ear to get all of the bass. My first impression? Little bit disappointed. I think the ZSR has a more fun signature, without losing too much detail at all.


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> *Quick And Very Subjective Comparisons Of The ZS 10 With...*
> 
> 
> *iBasso IT01:* Holy Jesus are the iBasso a treat in comparison: Diana Krall's voice sounds so much nearer, fuller, and more natural. The whole image is very airy. The ZS10's stage sounds shallow in comparison and Diana distant. And yes, one iBasso is worth more than two ZS10 to me.
> ...



Thanks for your observations here, Otto, particularly regarding the HDS1. To my ears, the initial batch of the ZS3's sound like an HDS1 (rich vocals and slightly rolled treble) coupled to a subwoofer. Would it be reaching to suspect the ZS10 might be a more refined ZS3?  I ask because the common thread in several posts regarding the ZS10 seems to be "rolled-off treble and elevated lower frequencies". The bass response in particular is why I included the "We're All We Need" track for comparison. Most of the other tracks are for evaluating the forwardness of lower-midrange to lower-treble frequencies since KZ "apparently" doubled the output (2 balanced armatures) per frequency range).

Thanks for your time.


----------



## stryed

I'm guessing the ZS10 won't be replacing my ZS5v2 anytime soon in the metro. ZSR might be a better choice but I'll be waiting for more imput and the rest of the upcoming ZS line with impatience.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 17, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Quick update on the ED15s.
> 
> Have switched to foams and the sound has really opened up.  Mids and highs sound clearer with great separation and there's no mid bass bleed.
> 
> The bass is extreme though, these are bass head level. Listening to "lose yourself to dance" by daft punk and my ear drums are shaking!!



ED15 info is appreciated. Looking forward to a well-built and "fun" sounding micro-dynamic hybrid. Sure....it's "another" bass oriented IEM from KZ but that's a great option if you're listening to breakbeat or DnB.


----------



## toddy0191

DocHoliday said:


> ED15 info is appreciated. Looking forward to a well-built and "fun" sounding micro-dynamic hybrid. Sure....it's "another" bass oriented IEM from KZ but that's a great option if you're listening to breakbeat or DnB.




That track sounds v good indeed on them! Bass oriented is  seriously an understatement here!  They're the most bass focused of my KZs.

The important thing is it's bass heavy in a good way,  on the track you linked the bass is fast and tight and they don't miss a beat and the mid range is unaffected. 

I'm happy as I don't have a signature like this in  my collection. The only similar sound is from my Klipsch Image one (II) but the bass in them really impacts the lower mids.


----------



## HungryPanda

from July 2016 but still gooood


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## toddy0191 (Apr 17, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> from July 2016 but still gooood




Great track!

They're phenomenal value for sub £10, haven't had them  out of my ears barely since getting back from work.

They didn't wow me at first due to the vacuum seal issue but with foams they sound great.

The soundstage is  reasonably wide with good depth too.  Imaging is good and they resolve way above their price.

I promised myself I wouldn't be a one man hype train and would be cautious with my comments, but what the hell...

CHOO CHOO!


----------



## Superluc (Apr 17, 2018)

And his cable ? Did you feel some microphonics using them ?
It look the same as last upgrade cable of KZ, the one gifted now with the ZS10.

Those ED15 look also a bit heavy, they are prone to fall of ?

Isolation ?


----------



## zazaboy

Wel i tested edr1 imho it beats my KZ ate  and KZ zs6 easily when heavely eq ed it has better bas too.. Im really impressed with edr1 it has amazing mids and sound..  I think KZ ate and edr1 still better KZ zs6


----------



## toddy0191

Superluc said:


> And his cable ? Did you feel some microphonics using them ?
> It look the same as last upgrade cable of KZ, the one gifted now with the ZS10.
> 
> Those ED15 look also a bit heavy, they are prone to fall of ?
> ...



 Cable is great quality and looks very similar. No microphonics for me but I'm wearing them cable up. 

They're weighty but as long as you have good seal they won't fall out.


----------



## Bartig (Apr 17, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Received my KZ ZS10 and ZhiYin Z5000. Of course, I started comparing them instantly with my current personal favorite - the KZ ZSR. These are my first impressions:
> 
> ZhiYin Z5000 - Really phat bass and dark sounding. They really opened up with the KZ Starline eartips on them, which they needed for my taste. Now, the bass is still very strong, but the mids and highs opened up. It feels like a ‘faster’, somewhat more upfront version of the ZSR. I like them!
> 
> KZ ZS10 - Had great hopes for these, but seriously, they are like the ZSR with less bass and a little bit less soundstage, although they have more upfront mids and highs. I also have to press them in my ear to get all of the bass. My first impression? Little bit disappointed. I think the ZSR has a more fun signature, without losing too much detail at all.


OK OK! Man I shouldn't state things so quick. In order to get a good seal with the ZS10's, I tried the large tips for the first time. They're relatively comfortable and boy, does the sound clear up. The mids and highs are impressive and the bass can definitely go deep enough. It just doesn’t do it as easy as the ZSR.


----------



## paulindss

Bartig said:


> OK OK! Man I shouldn't state things so quick. In order to get a good seal with the ZS10's, I tried the large tips for the first time. They're relatively comfortable and boy, does the sound clear up. The mids and highs are impressive and the bass can definitely go deep enough.



Lol. I was already comforting myself that i could re-sell them relatively easy .


----------



## B9Scrambler

That's why you take 1st impressions with a grain of salt. This thread can be pretty hilarious sometimes, what with all the flippin' and floppin'...


----------



## FHSWarrior

Question, how do the ZSR compare to the ZST pro?


----------



## TheVortex

FHSWarrior said:


> Question, how do the ZSR compare to the ZST pro?



I am lucky to own both. From my opinion the ZSR is more balanced sounding and is one of the best that KZ has made.


----------



## riffrafff

TheVortex said:


> I am lucky to own both. From my opinion the ZSR is more balanced sounding and is one of the best that KZ has made.



Agreed.  (I have both, too.)


----------



## TheVortex (Apr 17, 2018)

A couple of goodies has arrived today from the recent aliexpress sale from the shop that can't be named.

I ordered the Tin Audio T2, **** XBA, KZ bluetooth adapter for ZS10/ZSR fitment and **** Pro. I also ordered 2 ZS10's from there and they have got dispatched last week but was on a different order.

I noticed on the KZ bluetooth packaging it says bluetooth version 5.0 so looks like it has been revised?

Just tried the **** XBA with my KZ MMCX cable and sounds very impressive for the money.






Just have to test these against my ZSR and ZS5 V1 and see who wins.


----------



## FHSWarrior

TheVortex said:


> I am lucky to own both. From my opinion the ZSR is more balanced sounding and is one of the best that KZ has made.


I have the ZST pro and am on the search for a new set of budget iem's. Ahh,  I hate when im on the search for new headphones because i spend days decided which to buy lol


----------



## archy121

Slater said:


> This is the one I have (and the only BT 4.2 that Xiaomi made that I'm aware of): https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_663674.html



Shame it’s not aptx supporting. Would have been wonderful to connect my headphones to the TV with minimal latency.


----------



## paulindss

The only thing i whished from KZ bluetooth adapter was a decent and stable connectivity and they do not even have that. Unfortunaly i don't have the abilities to do the slater mod.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 17, 2018)

*Taking The ZS10 For A Ride Downtown
*
Listening at home is one thing, but taking an earphone out of the house is another. There, you have additional noises and you move, which may generate microphonics.
Therefore, as discussed here before, an analytical iem such as the ZS6 may not show their full potential on a city bus or a noisy downtown street, and a more robust sounding earphone with a solid bass such as the Memt X5 will do better.

I took the ZS10 on the city bus today just for relatively inattentive - and not analytical - listening. No dragonfly, just the iPhone 5S. After a while, the image became annoying: it appeared as if the mid bass was pushing a distant Diana Krall over the cliff and down into the ocean - including piano. Listening to more rustic music such as the new albums of the Vibrators and the Damned did not fare any better: bass and drums were overdone and the rhythm guitars didn't sound as full as they should. It was as if the different instruments were fighting each other and the drum 'n bass were winning. My ears considered this a very obvious flaw (others may like it). I am sure somebody will find a vent and some blue tack to increase this dilemma for pure pleasure.

*To me the ZS10 confirm how good the ZSR are. *


----------



## Slater

.


----------



## Slater (Apr 17, 2018)

paulindss said:


> The only thing i whished from KZ bluetooth adapter was a decent and stable connectivity and they do not even have that. Unfortunaly i don't have the abilities to do the slater mod.



Yeah, it's a half baked KZ product for sure.

I'm no computer or elecrical engineer, and even I knew enough to know how to calculate the correct length of a bluetooth antenna. Whoever designed their circuit board should have known better, or at least googled it and did a bit of research.

The really sad thing, is that they could have corrected that issue when they released the v2 module.

Until they correct that antenna problem, I'm only going to recommend the TRN adapter. It has a longer battery life and aptX to boot.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> *Taking The ZS10 For A Ride Downtown
> *
> Listening at home is one thing, but taking an earphone out of the house is another. There, you have additional noises and you move, which may generate microphonics.
> Therefore, as discussed here before, an analytical iem such as the ZS6 may not show their full potential on a city bus or a noisy downtown street, and a more robust sounding earphone with a solid bass such as the Memt X5 will do better.
> ...



I didn't have you pegged as a London punk guy!


----------



## Slater

archy121 said:


> Shame it’s not aptx supporting. Would have been wonderful to connect my headphones to the TV with minimal latency.



Yeah, that was a big surprise to me as well, especially since Xiaomi makes Android phones. Who knows, maybe the next version of their adapter will support aptX?


----------



## WildSeven

Slater said:


> Yeah, it's a half baked KZ product for sure.
> 
> I'm no computer or elecrical engineer, and even I knew enough to know how to calculate the correct length of a bluetooth antenna. Whoever designed their circuit board should have known better, or at least googled it and did a bit of research.
> 
> ...


Which TRN adapter do you recommand? Would you be able to share me a AE link? I am looking for an adapter with good connectivity and long life.


----------



## phower (Apr 17, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> Wel i tested edr1 imho it beats my KZ ate  and KZ zs6 easily when heavely eq ed it has better bas too.. Im really impressed with edr1 it has amazing mids and sound..  I think KZ ate and edr1 still better KZ zs6



I received EDR1 (I ordered EDSE) and 2nd ED9 today. I find that ED9 with bass filters are the best KZ that I have heard when compared with ATE, EDR1 and HDS3. I still haven't ordered any KZ multi-drivers and I find EDR1 like the earphones supplied with smartphones. Nothing exceptional.


----------



## paulindss (Apr 17, 2018)

When i bought my Zsr from gearbest i choosed the unregistered Air mail by mistake.

I've been worried since them, and unfortunaly after almost 100 days i had no news of the package. I reached gearbest worried If i would receive a solution.

And differently than Joybuy.com that was making a fool out of me even after the post office confirmed a lost package, Gearbest Just did the formal procedure and after that they are going to send a New package for me without any further question.

This is a Very Active thread. And i wanted to give a shout out for the good service and attention that gearbest has offered me. Differently from joybuy that has made me reach PayPal.


----------



## lucasbrea

TheVortex said:


> A couple of goodies has arrived today from the recent aliexpress sale from the shop that can't be named.
> 
> I ordered the Tin Audio T2, **** XBA, KZ bluetooth adapter for ZS10/ZSR fitment and **** Pro. I also ordered 2 ZS10's from there and they have got dispatched last week but was on a different order.
> 
> ...


Nice I'm interested in your opinion of the **** xba 6 in 1, can you compare this against the other ones, thanks in advance


----------



## Slater

WildSeven said:


> Which TRN adapter do you recommand? Would you be able to share me a AE link? I am looking for an adapter with good connectivity and long life.



On Aliexpress, search 'TRN bluetooth' and dozens will come up. You want the 2-pin version (not MMCX).


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 17, 2018)

.


----------



## Otto Motor

paulindss said:


> When i bought my Zsr from gearbest i choosed the unregistered Air mail by mistake.
> 
> I've been worried since them, and unfortunaly after almost 100 days i had no news of the package. I reached gearbest worried If i would receive a solution.
> 
> ...


Don't worry. Gearbest unregistered hs taken up to 165 days to Canada in the past. I still have one shipment from 23 Nov. outstanding. All my stuff has arrived so far.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> I didn't have you pegged as a London punk guy!


I was actually in a Camden town store called "Rock'n'Roll Rescue"  last October. I was served by a really old guy. He turned out to be the lead singer with the Vibrators (I found out months later). In my youth, I was on the Hull University Entertainments committee (for a few months) hiring Peter Murphy and the Fall.

Hey, and I got tickets for David Byrne...

This is the Vibrators guy:


----------



## riffrafff

Otto Motor said:


> I was actually in a Camden town store called "Rock'n'Roll Rescue"  last October. I was served by a really old guy. He turned out to be the lead singer with the Vibrators (I found out months later). In my youth, I was on the Hull University Entertainments committee (for a few months) putting on Peter Murphy and the Fall.
> 
> This guy:




I was gonna take issue with that "really old guy" crack, until I realized Knox is older than me.  lol.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 17, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> That track sounds v good indeed on them! Bass oriented is  seriously an understatement here!  They're the most bass focused of my KZs.
> 
> The important thing is it's bass heavy in a good way,  on the track you linked the bass is fast and tight and they don't miss a beat and the mid range is unaffected.
> 
> I'm happy as I don't have a signature like this in  my collection. The only similar sound is from my Klipsch Image one (II) but the bass in them really impacts the lower mids.



Yeah, I've tested the Image One a few years back but I didn't like the midrange or the sub-par isolation. If I remember correctly, out of the gate they were $150 and on sale they were $100.


At any rate, see if those ED15's can keep their composure with these tracks


Spoiler


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> Don't worry. Gearbest unregistered hs taken up to 165 days to Canada in the past. I still have one shipment from 23 Nov. outstanding. All my stuff has arrived so far.



6 months?!?


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> On Aliexpress, search 'TRN bluetooth' and dozens will come up. You want the 2-pin version (not MMCX).



As I have highlighted previously, there are 2 versions of the TRN BT module. One with and one without AptX support.   

Do look carefully at the listing specifications first before committing to buying.  One other member here has bought the non-Aptx version without realising it.


----------



## lmfboy01

Hey anybody from KZ I can get in touch with?  One of my earpieces are defective, as the bass on the left side is no where near the right side...almost like the dynamic driver ain't pumping... appreciate the help if you could direct me in the right direction! thank you!


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> 6 months?!?


I made a stink that attracted a CTV camera team to my living room. I was on TV in Calgary and Vancouver:
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/delayed-delivery-canada-post-says-you-get-what-you-pay-for-1.3446303


----------



## riffrafff

Otto Motor said:


> I made a stink that attracted a CTV camera team to my living room. I was on TV in Calgary and Vancouver:
> https://bc.ctvnews.ca/delayed-delivery-canada-post-says-you-get-what-you-pay-for-1.3446303



So now we know.


----------



## WildSeven

maxxevv said:


> As I have highlighted previously, there are 2 versions of the TRN BT module. One with and one without AptX support.
> 
> Do look carefully at the listing specifications first before committing to buying.  One other member here has bought the non-Aptx version without realising it.


Is there physical difference or marking on the module specify is AptX? or price difference that can give me a tell tell sign which is better?


----------



## maxxevv

I'm not aware of the physical differences as I have not handled both.  

But if you're searching on Aliexpress, a quick indicator would be a US$5~7/- difference between the 2 variants.  The non-AptX one being cheaper than comparable AptX enabled ones. But you still have to check the listing specifications to be completely sure.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for your observations here, Otto, particularly regarding the HDS1. To my ears, the initial batch of the ZS3's sound like an HDS1 (rich vocals and slightly rolled treble) coupled to a subwoofer. Would it be reaching to suspect the ZS10 might be a more refined ZS3?  I ask because the common thread in several posts regarding the ZS10 seems to be "rolled-off treble and elevated lower frequencies". The bass response in particular is why I included the "We're All We Need" track for comparison. Most of the other tracks are for evaluating the forwardness of lower-midrange to lower-treble frequencies since KZ "apparently" doubled the output (2 balanced armatures) per frequency range).
> 
> Thanks for your time.


I don't know the ZS3 very well as mine sound awful - from memory the ZS3 sounded dark with a small soundstage and recessed, however harsh mids. I can't see a relationship between the ZS3 and ZS10. The ZS10's allegedly elevated lower frequencies are contradicting the phonograph's review. And another head fier writes that the ZS10 sound like the ZSR but with less bass. To me, the ZS10's mid bass is overemphasized.


----------



## rfsux (Apr 18, 2018)

I regret ordering this silver cable.


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> As I have highlighted previously, there are 2 versions of the TRN BT module. One with and one without AptX support.
> 
> Do look carefully at the listing specifications first before committing to buying.  One other member here has bought the non-Aptx version without realising it.



Yes, good point. I assume everyone would want the aptX version. But still good to mention nontheless.


----------



## Slater

lmfboy01 said:


> Hey anybody from KZ I can get in touch with?  One of my earpieces are defective, as the bass on the left side is no where near the right side...almost like the dynamic driver ain't pumping... appreciate the help if you could direct me in the right direction! thank you!



For warranty claims you must go through your dealer, not KZ directly.

So, for example, if you bought them from Gearbest, work with Gearbest customer support to get the problem resolved.

Good luck!


----------



## Freetrademan

skajohyros said:


> Zs5 v1 or V2?


I don't know how to tell. I have four ZS5's, and they all sound the same.


----------



## phower

WildSeven said:


> Is there physical difference or marking on the module specify is AptX? or price difference that can give me a tell tell sign which is better?


May be you already know. Your smartphone also has to support aptX and in some smartphones, support is disabled even though the specs say that its is supported. Bluetooth reception is more important than the codec since the default codec SBC isn't bad. It can't encode some types of music which is a minor issue.


----------



## WildSeven

Finally my KZ10 is shipped with air. They gave me another tracking with the original stuck for 2 weeks.


----------



## WildSeven

phower said:


> May be you already know. Your smartphone also has to support aptX and in some smartphones, support is disabled even though the specs say that its is supported. Bluetooth reception is more important than the codec since the default codec SBC isn't bad. It can't encode some types of music which is a minor issue.


Well in that case is the TRN better in reception and connectivity compare to the KZ one? I carry my phone in a pocket so it will be close by. 
Source will be my Nexus 6 with Spotify premium.


----------



## Slater

WildSeven said:


> Well in that case is the TRN better in reception and connectivity compare to the KZ one? I carry my phone in a pocket so it will be close by.
> Source will be my Nexus 6 with Spotify premium.



Yes, much better. I discovered a design flaw in the KZ module antenna, which causes range and interference issues. I came up with a fix for the antenna flaw, but it requires disassembly and soldering skills.

The TRN module has no such issues.


----------



## Slater (Apr 18, 2018)

Freetrademan said:


> I don't know how to tell. I have four ZS5's, and they all sound the same.



To tell which version you have, you shine a light a foor ot so above the nozzle, and look for small 'circles' as you move the light around. The light moving around casts shadows on the BA drivers in the nozzle, and you will be able to see them easily.

If you have only 1, you have the ZS5 v1. If you have 2, then you have the c.

In this photo, you can see (2) circles, which means it's a ZS5 v2:


----------



## CoiL (Apr 18, 2018)

I wonder how Rose North Forest compares against KZ "flagship" ZS10 
Otto, when I receive it, I will definitely give You feedback about it compared to IT01 and ZS5v1, so You can maybe try them Yourself if they are new "killers" as some claim in sub-100$ thread.
If they are, then KZ train will "run off the track" and spending money on those flashy multi-hybrid cheapo KZs gets pointless imho. Well, it actually already is "pointless" in many ways as there are much better value and SQ offerings out there...


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> I don't know the ZS3 very well as mine sound awful - from memory the ZS3 sounded dark with a small soundstage and recessed, however harsh mids. I can't see a relationship between the ZS3 and ZS10. The ZS10's allegedly elevated lower frequencies are contradicting the phonograph's review. And another head fier writes that the ZS10 sound like the ZSR but with less bass. To me, the ZS10's mid bass is overemphasized.



I gathered from your experience that the mid-bass is too forward and bleeds slightly into the vocals. I took some quotations for clarification but there was no mention of sub-bass which leads me to believe that the 10mm DD is focused mainly on mid-bass.

Thus far, your experience (without the dragonfly) has been over-emphasized mid-bass that forces the midrange into submission. 



Otto Motor said:


> "To me, the ZS10's mid bass is overemphasized........"
> 
> "......bass and drums were overdone....."
> 
> ...



Thus far, your experience (without the dragonfly) has been that they can be shallow and congested while the imaging is annoying



> "the image became annoying"
> 
> "The ZS10 sound shallow and congested (at bassy pieces) to me."



In general you found the vocals to be recessed but with good resolution 



> "Voice is still a bit recessed"
> 
> "Diana's voice is a bit cleaner but also more distant"



Thank you for your input. 

In retrospect I should have chosen another song in place of "King Of Sorrow" because the lack of resolution in Sade's voice is present in the actual recording which is unfortunate. 

Thus far it appears that without your dragonfly the ZS10 has left a bittersweet taste in your mouth. Perhaps a good set of wide-bore silicones will clean up some of the mid-bass by offering a more  diffuse presentation. 

Please keep us posted if you spend any time having the ZS10 coupled to your dragonfly.  

I'd be lying if I said that I was surprised to learn that your ZS10 sounded a bit wonky without the Dragonfly (possible impedance curves); I would expect that using your dragonfly would clean up the sound signature quite nicely.

Looks like B9's ZS10 arrived also so a more clear picture should begin to take form. 

p.s. - 
My original (matte-finish) ZS3 has slightly rolled treble and a slightly forward midrange (that is not strident in any way). The soundstage is slightly above average but it holds no candle to the ZSR, ZS6 or ZS5(i). The description of your ZS3 sounds quite different from my own. 

Again, thanks for the input.


----------



## Viber

I'm glad the ZSR are so well liked here.  I was afraid of being accused for over-hyping them when i gave them that 5/5 review


----------



## jeromeaparis (Apr 18, 2018)

FHSWarrior said:


> Question, how do the ZSR compare to the ZST pro?


I do like the ZST colorfull a lot, but the ZSR is better (exept the fit in narrow earcanal) Bass are deeper and tighter, voices less recessed, trebles detailed and rarely sybillant


----------



## Superluc

Otto Motor said:


> he ZS10's allegedly elevated lower frequencies are contradicting the phonograph's review.


Not if you taking vents into account. We can aspect the graph to be do without closing a single vent, but placing them on the ears can change that.

Some have already pointed some flaws on the vent's positions of the ZS10.


----------



## bsoplinger

WildSeven said:


> Well in that case is the TRN better in reception and connectivity compare to the KZ one? I carry my phone in a pocket so it will be close by.
> Source will be my Nexus 6 with Spotify premium.





Slater said:


> Yes, much better. I discovered a design flaw in the KZ module antenna, which causes range and interference issues. I came up with a fix for the antenna flaw, but it requires disassembly and soldering skills.
> 
> The TRN module has no such issues.



If you can do the soldering for the fix which is just scrape off a bit of PCB coating and add a short wire at that spot the KZ cable is less than half the price of the TRN cable without AptX and about a third of the price of the version with it. Under $10 for a 2-3 hr charge which makes it good enough for gym, workouts, etc. For $26 you get about 6 hours of charge and AptX making it better for situations where you'll be listening longer than an hour or two. 

The fix with pictures is in this thread, posted by @Slater


----------



## maxxevv

The latest revision for the KZ BT module is supposedly BT 5.0 as 1 or 2 sellers are touting on Aliexpress.  So if its true, there is a good chance that it supports AptX and even AptX HD.  No details other than on the listings to date, so cannot verify on the AptX part yet. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...83cd-45c1-b48f-63ccf8749f85&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## Viber

maxxevv said:


> The latest revision for the KZ BT module is supposedly BT 5.0 as 1 or 2 sellers are touting on Aliexpress.  So if its true, there is a good chance that it supports AptX and even AptX HD.  No details other than on the listings to date, so cannot verify on the AptX part yet.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...83cd-45c1-b48f-63ccf8749f85&priceBeautifyAB=0



Still 3 hours battery time


----------



## WalterTorino

toddy0191 said:


> They still sound great but it's a pain getting them in the right place.  Foams worked on the ED15s so will try on the EDR1s.
> 
> Thanks!


So would you recommend me to buy the ed15 if I like a good deep bass?


----------



## Aparker2005

My zs10 shipped !


----------



## toddy0191

WalterTorino said:


> So would you recommend me to buy the ed15 if I like a good deep bass?



If you like your ear drums massaged them definitely yes.  TBH you can't go wrong for the price.


----------



## WalterTorino

toddy0191 said:


> If you like your ear drums massaged them definitely yes.  TBH you can't go wrong for the price.


That's what i expected to hear  Thanks!


----------



## Aparker2005

So in waiting for my Zs10 to arrive, I'm wondering about these iems as I've become obsessed with them. 

I currently have the zst which I don't use much anymore  and the es3 which I use constantly now. The es3 fits my ear perfectly and sounds amazing to me. I use my KZ for music listening and on stage performing on drums .

Once the zs10 come in I hope to be using them constantly with the es3 as backup. After reading through some of these posts though  is the ZSR worth getting if I have these 3 already? Don't want to be too repetitive. Thanks


----------



## anindyameister

Ali KZ store has started showing ES4 banner.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Same


Aparker2005 said:


> My zs10 shipped !


Same!

A red one, no mic from NiceHCK!

First report I’ve had of a different colour to black shipping too!


----------



## Aparker2005

anindyameister said:


> Ali KZ store has started showing ES4 banner.



These guys have to stop pumping so many out. My wife is gonna be like okay exactly how much difference can there be between all of these lol. I almost want these and the zsr  and I don't even have my zs10 in hand yet .


----------



## anindyameister

Aparker2005 said:


> These guys have to stop pumping so many out. My wife is gonna be like okay exactly how much difference can there be between all of these lol. I almost want these and the zsr  and I don't even have my zs10 in hand yet .


Word floating around says KZ has about 7-8 more in the pipeline.


----------



## Aparker2005

Zs10 is supposed to be the flagship for the year though right?


----------



## anindyameister

Aparker2005 said:


> Zs10 is supposed to be the flagship for the year though right?


In terms of driver count, yes. half of the upcoming ones are expected to be triple driver, while the other half dual driver.


----------



## Qualcheduno

Aparker2005 said:


> Zs10 is supposed to be the flagship for the year though right?


You're talking about the manufacturer which pumped out the ZS5, then the ZS5v2, then the ZS6 and now the ZS10 in less than one year


----------



## mbwilson111

phower said:


> I received EDR1 (I ordered EDSE) and 2nd ED9 today. I find that ED9 with bass filters are the best KZ that I have heard when compared with ATE, EDR1 and HDS3. I still haven't ordered any KZ multi-drivers and I find EDR1 like the earphones supplied with smartphones. Nothing exceptional.



When you say bass filters for the ED9, do you mean the duller or the brighter more shiny one?  I keep getting confused when people say which one they prefer.


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like my colleague is a lucky bugger and got his ZS10's before me.

First blue ones in the UK??


 

I ordered the black one which got dispatched later. The one above with the mic as well.


----------



## WildSeven (Apr 18, 2018)

anindyameister said:


> Word floating around says KZ has about 7-8 more in the pipeline.


Word from the company "We've got so many models coming out every year so there's got to be 1 that suits you, if you can't find what you like, keep buying and don't loose hope."


Jokes aside, I'd probably settle with 1 good iem and call it a day, but in this hobby my ears tells me what to do not my wallet.


----------



## weedophile

Aparker2005 said:


> These guys have to stop pumping so many out. My wife is gonna be like okay exactly how much difference can there be between all of these lol. I almost want these and the zsr  and I don't even have my zs10 in hand yet .


Well, place an order. Problem solved xD


----------



## phower

mbwilson111 said:


> When you say bass filters for the ED9, do you mean the duller or the brighter more shiny one?  I keep getting confused when people say which one they prefer.


The shiny one with the slope. The balanced is dull and flat surface


----------



## phower

Aparker2005 said:


> These guys have to stop pumping so many out. My wife is gonna be like okay exactly how much difference can there be between all of these lol. I almost want these and the zsr  and I don't even have my zs10 in hand yet .


I am not buying a KZ for $40. For $10 more, you can buy many full size cans from Sennheiser's low end which will have better quality control and be better engineerd.

 My limit is $25 per KZ iem. Let's not become hoarders and encourage KZ to pump out mediocre products


----------



## mbwilson111

phower said:


> The shiny one with the slope. The balanced is dull and flat surface



Thanks for clarifying.

There were no instructions to suggest what each filter would do.  I like the dull one.  My ED9 has plenty of bass for me with that one.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I gathered from your experience that the mid-bass is too forward and bleeds slightly into the vocals. I took some quotations for clarification but there was no mention of sub-bass which leads me to believe that the 10mm DD is focused mainly on mid-bass.
> 
> Thus far, your experience (without the dragonfly) has been over-emphasized mid-bass that forces the midrange into submission.
> 
> ...


Thanks. After the first impression, I'll now take my time to have a longer look at the ZS10. For that purpose, I will not only use the dragonfly but also the Schiit Fulla and Montblanc FiiO E12 amp.

There are contrasting comments in that others think the bass of the ZSR is stronger. Some of my impressions could be owing to source, fit etc.. And I also put high expectations into a 5 driver earphone. Let's see whether others will love the ZS10 more.

Your "spoilers" and comments generated my desire to find the perfect standard music pieces for testing, subdivided into categories such as bass, soundstage, vocals etc.
One that is extremely useful for testing (overemphasized) treble is "Build" by the Housemartins (hi hats; also a good baseline towards the beginning; remaster needed, youtube version is not good enough).

Good one for identifying boomy bass is Sade - Smooth Operator.

Below is the start of a playlist subdivision...


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> When you say bass filters for the ED9, do you mean the duller or the brighter more shiny one?  I keep getting confused when people say which one they prefer.


Why don't you just use the red ones instead ?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

phower said:


> I am not buying a KZ for $40. For $10 more, you can buy many full size cans from Sennheiser's low end which will have better quality control and be better engineerd.
> 
> My limit is $25 per KZ iem. Let's not become hoarders and encourage KZ to pump out mediocre products


Sennheiser HD231 (list price $90 CAD)...discontinued...a mini HD598. Bass as tight as a nun's nasty. Rivals the iBasso IT01...probably even wins the voice department. Picked one up at best buy for $25 CAD. As the name implies...best buy ever.


----------



## C2thew

I just want the KZ ZS4 released.  I'd probably sell my ZS6 if the ZS4 adds a little bit more treble to the ZS3.  The fit/comfort has been the best KZ headphone for me to date.  Pair that with my new TRN bluetooth cable and it'd be the perfect setup for me.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Why don't you just use the red ones instead ?



I did not get red ones with my ED9.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> I did not get red ones with my ED9.



No one did. Those are more than likely GR filters. ED9 comes with brass colored (balanced) and gold colored (bass) filters.


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> Sennheiser HD231 (list price $90 CAD)...discontinued...a mini HD598. Bass as tight as a nun's nasty. Rivals the iBasso IT01...probably even wins the voice department. Picked one up at best buy for $25 CAD. As the name implies...best buy ever.


Is it still on sale? I might pick up one too? I am in the GTA by the way.


----------



## Bartig (Apr 18, 2018)

Viber said:


> I'm glad the ZSR are so well liked here.  I was afraid of being accused for over-hyping them when i gave them that 5/5 review


I started to love my ZSR even more after listening the ZS10 for the first hours. 



Aparker2005 said:


> So in waiting for my Zs10 to arrive, I'm wondering about these iems as I've become obsessed with them.
> 
> I currently have the zst which I don't use much anymore  and the es3 which I use constantly now. The es3 fits my ear perfectly and sounds amazing to me. I use my KZ for music listening and on stage performing on drums .
> 
> Once the zs10 come in I hope to be using them constantly with the es3 as backup. After reading through some of these posts though  is the ZSR worth getting if I have these 3 already? Don't want to be too repetitive. Thanks


Yes! The ZSR have the best tuning of KZ so far I think, focused on fun AND details. The bass is ever present, the mids aren’t in-your-face close and you can throw every genre at it without adjusting volume because one or two frequencies are suddenly louder than others - a problem occurring on the ZS5 and ZS10 I have.

The ZS10 is brighter sounding and more vocal focused, but at the same time there’s something just wrong with the tonality.  Some vocals and instruments sound blown-up or just plain fake. The drums in Michael Prins’ Blackbird near the end, What is wrong with that?


----------



## Aparker2005

What's the ZS4 specs, anyone know yet?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

*ZS10 vs. ZSR

Fancy setup *(this is not just a phone and the music used was flawless): iMac + audioquest jitterbug + audioquest dragonfly/Schiit Fulla

Dug into audiophile recordings (Chesky Records, lossless). Burn-in of the ZS10 (just in case...): 25 hrs so far.

There was not much between the two iems with this setup - they are rather similar. Really difficult to say which one has the more emphasized bass - but none of them is particularly tight. Overall, the ZS10 resolves slightly better. The biggest difference I found was in the voice department. The ZS10 renders the voices wider and therefore more recessed (and distant)...going back to previous models such as the ZS3 and ZS5. The ZSR reproduces voices slightly narrower which sets them a bit forward and adds some depth. Some prefer the former, some the latter.

I find the ZSR's sound more natural...again, that's why it is perceived to do reasonably well when compared to more expensive iems (ZSR = "iBasso IT0! light")?. The Fidue A65 plays darker, more relaxed, and with a more focused bass.

As to the ZS10's fancy stock cable: looks good, feels good...gets stuck everywhere and tangles up like crazy. Long live spaghetti...time for lunch! It will be a Bolognese.


----------



## zazaboy

@Otto Motor can you do a comparison between kz zs6 and the kz zs10... which one is better.. of the two... is it worth upgrading .. or is the kz zs6 still better then kz zs10.. and can you plz compare the soundstage, vocals and instrument accuracy ...  which one is better?.. thanks


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> @Otto Motor can you do a comparison between kz zs6 and the kz zs10... which one is better.. of the two... is it worth upgrading .. or is the kz zs6 still better then kz zs10.. and can you plz compare the soundstage, vocals and instrument accuracy ...  which one is better?.. thanks


I think I did this already. The ZS10 is similar to the ZSR. If you have the ZSR already, I would at least wait for some more opinions and reviews [anxious what B9 will come up with]. The ZS6 is possibly more technically accurate sounding than the ZS10. ZS10 and ZS6 are totally different.
The ZS6 is also special because of its design and metal body. Voices sound better to me in the ZS6 if you can handle the 10K peak.

If I had tested all three in a store, I would have taken the ZSR for sound and the ZS6 as a collector's item but would have left the ZS10 for somebody else and blown the money on beer 

But I am just one guy and others may assess them differently.


----------



## zazaboy

oke bro thanks for comparison


----------



## Bartig

Otto Motor said:


> I think I did this already. The ZS10 is similar to the ZSR. If you have the ZSR already, I would at least wait for some more opinions and reviews. The ZS6 is more natural and more technically accurate sounding. ZS10 and ZS6 are totally different.
> The ZS6 is also special because of its design and metal body. Voices sound better to me in the ZS6 if you can handle the 10K peak.
> 
> If I had tested all three in a store, I would have taken the ZSR for sound and the ZS6 as a collector's item but would have left the ZS10 for somebody else and blown the money on beer


There we have it. The ZS10 is the most pricey KZ to date, but it definitely isn’t the best. Couldn’t describe it better.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

Bartig said:


> There we have it. The ZS10 is the most pricey KZ to date, but it definitely isn’t the best. Couldn’t describe it better.


Depends on how you define "best". I would say it is not the miracle earphone everybody had expected from the 5-driver design. The ZS10 is technically up there with the ZS6....but, sonically I still prefer the "inferior" ZSR. And the $33 I paid was ok.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 18, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Thanks. After the first impression, I'll now take my time to have a longer look at the ZS10. For that purpose, I will not only use the dragonfly but also the Schiit Fulla and Montblanc FiiO E12 amp.
> 
> There are contrasting comments in that others think the bass of the ZSR is stronger. Some of my impressions could be owing to source, fit etc.. And I also put high expectations into a 5 driver earphone. Let's see whether others will love the ZS10 more.
> 
> ...



That's quite the list you have there. Just be mindful that orchestral recordings and jazz recordings prior to the digital revolution introduce an endless set of variables that can skew ones interpretation of what sounds "natural"(microphone used, placement of microphone, recording equipment, etc.). Then of course there is the supposed same track released on different compilations but the dynamics differ from one release to the next.

Examples:


Spoiler



 
 
 

 





......and with the "loudness wars" in full bloom, to my ears, remastered tracks aren't always "better" than the unmolested original track. Just an observation to be considered when one is seeking recorded tracks to serve as a "control".


----------



## DSebastiao

How do the ZST compare to the ZSR? Also, anyone got the ZS6 recently? Green?


----------



## liquidzoo

DSebastiao said:


> How do the ZST compare to the ZSR? Also, anyone got the ZS6 recently? Green?



I got a ZS6 the other day from Amazon.  Red, though, not green.  I like them so far, but I haven't really listened to them too much yet.


----------



## Podster (Apr 19, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Which color are they?
> 
> Take out the silicon tip and look for the end of that little tube to have a part coming out to hold rhe silicon tip in place.



I'm sure Slater fixed you up but here is my last ZS6 Gray shell, tip ridge is clearly there


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

*2 x 5 = 10?*

And now the fight of the giants: *ZS5 v1 *against *ZS10*.

Setup: iMac + audioquest jitterbug + audioquest dragonfly

Whoa, the ZS5 v1 kicks ass - can I believe it? It is less thick sounding than the ZS10 because of its less inflated bass. The whole image of the ZS5 is more transparent and fluffier. Diana Krall's voice gets some wonderful sparkle.

Coil, no need for you to "upgrade". Here you have it:" the ZS5 v1 is a classic.

Note: with the iPhone 5S the ZS5 sounds unbalanced and Diana Krall's voice is nasal and hollow. Most other iems sound just fine with the iPhone.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Just received the ZS10 as a gift from a friend. While I'm not proficient in terms of Audiophile lingo, I will give my impressions of the IEM when I return home from school today.


----------



## WildSeven

DSebastiao said:


> How do the ZST compare to the ZSR? Also, anyone got the ZS6 recently? Green?


Mine (green) delivered today to mailbox, I will report back later after work.


----------



## Bartig

DSebastiao said:


> How do the ZST compare to the ZSR? Also, anyone got the ZS6 recently? Green?


ZST + massive controlled amount of bass + warm sound - piercing highs = ZSR.


----------



## riffrafff

DSebastiao said:


> How do the ZST compare to the ZSR? Also, anyone got the ZS6 recently? Green?



I received my green ZS6 a couple of days ago.


----------



## bsoplinger

Otto Motor said:


> … If I had tested all three in a store, I would have taken the ZSR for sound and the ZS6 as a collector's item but would have left the ZS10 for somebody else and blown the money on beer … .


My ZS10 just arrived today. Listened quick before putting it in the burn-in pile. I didn't get much bass so I'm going to assume I had a fitment issue but since it was a quick listen no tip rolling to find something that worked. Nicer smoother than ZS6 across mids and highs. Still bright. I wish that KZ would tune to a less hair splitting signature. Although bright not as bad, painful, awful, very bright (take your pick depending on tolerance for lots of highs) as the ZS6. I'd take the ZSR at this time too but these need some burn-in and tip rolling until I can get a good, comfortable fit that allows the bass to be heard. Then I can make an honest assessment. 



DocHoliday said:


> That's quite the list you have there. Just be mindful that orchestral recordings and jazz recordings prior to the digital revolution introduce an endless set of variables that can skew ones interpretation of what sounds "natural"(microphone used, placement of microphone, recording equipment, etc.). Then of course there is the supposed same track released on different compilations but the dynamics differ from one release to the next.…


I don't understand why whether analog or digital recording equipment is used makes a difference as to whether microphone used, placement, etc could or could not introduce an endless set of variables that can skew… 

Or did you mean something different than what you've written? 



DSebastiao said:


> How do the ZST compare to the ZSR? Also, anyone got the ZS6 recently? Green?


I received my set of green ZS6 so combined with my red ones I'm all set to swap covers for Xmas


----------



## Otto Motor

*Waiting For The Next Hype Train




 



 *


----------



## Podster

Otto Motor said:


> *Waiting For The Next Hype Train
> 
> 
> 
> *



Oh man, that's the best KZ eva


----------



## toddy0191

Otto Motor said:


> *Waiting For The Next Hype Train
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well despite the focus on bass  I'm not getting boomy with your test track "smooth operator".


----------



## DSebastiao

liquidzoo said:


> I got a ZS6 the other day from Amazon.  Red, though, not green.  I like them so far, but I haven't really listened to them too much yet.





WildSeven said:


> Mine (green) delivered today to mailbox, I will report back later after work.





riffrafff said:


> I received my green ZS6 a couple of days ago.



Thank you all, could you see if yours have this thing:



Podster said:


> I'm Slater fixed you up but here is my last ZS6 Gray shell, tip ridge is clearly there


----------



## liquidzoo

DSebastiao said:


> Thank you all, could you see if yours have this thing:



There is no lip like that on my Amazon pair.


----------



## DSebastiao

Bartig said:


> ZST + massive controlled amount of bass + warm sound - piercing highs = ZSR.



So it's flat out better in every way no?


----------



## DSebastiao

liquidzoo said:


> There is no lip like that on my Amazon pair.



Which seller on amazon?


----------



## Bartig

DSebastiao said:


> So it's flat out better in every way no?


Yes. Well, the fit isn’t for everyone.


----------



## toddy0191

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, I've tested the Image One a few years back but I didn't like the midrange or the sub-par isolation. If I remember correctly, out of the gate they were $150 and on sale they were $100.
> 
> 
> At any rate, see if those ED15's can keep their composure with these tracks
> ...




Only the bottom three play in the UK but I'd 100 percent say these are made for trance. The Tiesto  track and the Emma Hewitt remix in particular sound great. The bass is powerful but the mids and highs are unaffected with sparkly cymbals and clear vocals. Very immersive.


----------



## liquidzoo

DSebastiao said:


> Which seller on amazon?



This is the product listing I purchased from

_Edit_ In case the link is not allowed, it's from Topssale Inc, fulfilled by Amazon.


----------



## riffrafff

DSebastiao said:


> Thank you all, could you see if yours have this thing:



No lip on mine, from NiceHCK.


----------



## Adide

Finally my ZS10 started the long march (pun intended) from AK store.
Figuratively and literally I hope they will fly.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Well despite the focus on bass  I'm not getting boomy with your test track "smooth operator".


Good point. That's the general problem with consistency in both equipment and music. I was using a Japanese version that "bangs" somewhat more in the bass than the vinyl version and the remastered greatest hits version.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> When you say bass filters for the ED9, do you mean the duller or the brighter more shiny one?  I keep getting confused when people say which one they prefer.



Bass filters are the shiny gold-plated ones. They are a tad shorter, and have a smaller opening at the end. If you look inside of the filter, there's a piece of black foam stuck in.

The other filters (called alto by KZ) are dull (not shiny) brass colored, a tad longer, and have a larger opening at the end. If you look inside of the filter, there's nothing inside (just empty space).

Hope that helps


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> The other filters (called alto by KZ) are dull (not shiny) brass colored, a tad longer, and have a larger opening at the end. If you look inside of the filter, there's nothing inside (just empty space).



This is the one I like best.


----------



## Superluc

toddy0191 said:


> No microphonics for me but I'm wearing them cable up.


Inverting the channels ?


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 18, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I don't understand why whether analog or digital recording equipment is used makes a difference as to whether microphone used, placement, etc could or could not introduce an endless set of variables that can skew…
> 
> Or did you mean something different than what you've written?



The point I was making is the variables involved when considering "natural" sound. In the examples I provided one can clearly detect the difference in vocal positioning. The reason I always post a given track in reviews and posts is because I want the reader to have full access to what I describe.

Suppose I reference a track (Ella Fitzgerald's "Basin Street Blues") in my post or review and I write "it sounds as though I am in the second row and Ella is singing to me". If the reader accesses file#1 below then he/she might be able to identify with my observations. However, if the reader looks up Ella Fitzgerald's "Basin Street Blues" on his/her own and listens to file#2 then my description would be confusing because file#2 (which is "Basin Street Blues" sung by Ella Fitzgerald) sounds as though I am perhaps 80 to 100 feet away from Ella and she's singing to a crowded room and not to me per se. Where the microphone was placed during the recording is the defining factor.

File#2:


File#1:


My original comments were directed toward early jazz and early orchestral/symphony recordings. 



> Just be mindful that orchestral recordings and jazz recordings prior to the digital revolution introduce an endless set of variables that can skew ones interpretation of what sounds "natural"(microphone used, placement of microphone, recording equipment, etc.).



There is an endless debate regarding recording methods of three of the main houses:
("multi-microphone recording" better known as "multi-micing") 

Deutsche Grammophon (DG)
RCA/Victrola
CBS (Columbia)

.....and what effects said methods had on the final product.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> The point I was making is the variables involved when considering "natural" sound. In the examples I provided one can clearly detect the difference in vocal positioning. The reason I always post a given track in reviews and posts is because I want the reader to have full access to what I describe.
> 
> Suppose I reference a track (Ella Fitzgerald's "Basin Street Blues") in my post or review and I write "it sounds as though I am in the second row and Ella is singing to me". If the reader accesses file#1 below then he/she might be able to identify with my observations. However, if the reader looks up Ella Fitzgerald's "Basin Street Blues" on his/her own and listens to file#2 then my description would be confusing because file#2 (which is "Basin Street Blues" sung by Ella Fitzgerald) sounds as though I am perhaps 80 to 100 feet away from Ella and she's singing to a crowded room and not to me per se. Where the microphone was placed during the recording is the defining factor.
> 
> ...




I'd love to have the vocals of #1 with the instruments of #2!

Anyways, thanks for sharing this. I definitely see what you mean about the differences.


----------



## Slater (Apr 18, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I made a stink that attracted a CTV camera team to my living room. I was on TV in Calgary and Vancouver:
> https://bc.ctvnews.ca/delayed-delivery-canada-post-says-you-get-what-you-pay-for-1.3446303



So that was you in that video with the glasses?

What that that green cutter thing you bought? It had odd angled blades that were at such an extreme angle, it looks like it wouldn't cut melon or whatever properly.


----------



## TLDRonin

Bartig said:


> There we have it. The ZS10 is the most pricey KZ to date, but it definitely isn’t the best. Couldn’t describe it better.





Otto Motor said:


> But I am just one guy and others may assess them differently.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

Slater said:


> So that was you in that video with the glasses?
> 
> What that that green cutter thing you bought? It had odd angled blades that were at such an extreme angle, it looks like it wouldn't cut melon or whatever properly.


I was the guy with the earphones and the German accent!


----------



## William Tavares

my ZS6 came today and the right side connector is loose... tried to put instant glue on it and it went into a pin hole -_- luckly i cleaned mostly, however i haven't found a solution. What's the name of those screws?

I've modded them by tapping one of the BA from each side, it sounds miles better now (i used glue and a small ball of paper), and rubber tips from vsonic.

I did glued all the 4 BA's and it ruined the sound, fortunatley i could wipe the glue ball (mostly)...

i just want to solve that loose connection but opening this seems to be a challenge.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> I was the guy with the earphones and the German accent!



Oh, I see. It was the 2nd video.

Wow, you are a TV star LOL

So what were the IEMs you showed on TV for $13.50? I wasn't able to identify them. They any good?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 18, 2018)

Slater said:


> Oh, I see. It was the 2nd video.
> 
> Wow, you are a TV star LOL
> 
> So what were the IEMs you showed on TV for $13.50? I wasn't able to identify them. They any good?



I had been a TV star all along ...this one ends up with beer and wine as always.


The Calgary coverage was longer but harder to find.

The earphones shown on TV were the Joyroom JR-E103. Well made but problematic sounding. See audiobudget.


----------



## Colors (Apr 18, 2018)

Just ordered a pair of black no-mic ZSR. First KZ purchase.

Hoping it lives up to the hype! I expect DUNU-2000 level performance for $30!


----------



## TLDRonin

William Tavares said:


> I did glued all the 4 BA's and it ruined the sound, fortunatley i could wipe the glue ball (mostly)...



Yeah, gluing all 4 BA's would change the issue from too much treble to no treble


----------



## C2thew

William Tavares said:


> my ZS6 came today and the right side connector is loose... tried to put instant glue on it and it went into a pin hole -_- luckly i cleaned mostly, however i haven't found a solution. What's the name of those screws?
> 
> I've modded them by tapping one of the BA from each side, it sounds miles better now (i used glue and a small ball of paper), and rubber tips from vsonic.
> 
> ...



Cant tell if you are trolling.... You can open the shell with removing by using a torx screwdriver which will then give you a better angle to the 2 pin connector port but if your connectors fit; just leave it alone.


----------



## William Tavares

C2thew said:


> if your connectors fit; just leave it alone.



i'm afraid it gets loosen or "fall" inside the case.


----------



## Taters00

Was a bit bored and had my ATEs with the shells open... 2-Part Epoxy mod? Waiting for them to dry before I stick them in my ears.


----------



## sino8r

So, I got the zs10s at the end of last week. They sound good but not great. After using the zs6 for a couple of months now they really sound flat. I missed the more v shaped sound of the zs6. I am in my mid 30s so the extra treble sounds good to me. Plus with the addition memory foam tips, they are tamed enough for continuous, loud usage. Since I got TRN bluetooth, I've been using the zs6 more and more over my jaybirds. The zs10s just sound plain after using the zs6s. They just sound like every other decent headphones I've used. I think I'm sending them back. They do sound better than the tennmak trios I just got. Those are going back as well. Should have guessed they'd sound even more dark than the zs10s being dual drivers lol! I guess I'm sticking to the zs6s and the sibilance. Haven't tried a impedance adapter yet. Oh well... We're the Zs10s supposed to an updated version of the zs6 or is that reserved for an upcoming version? I'm new to the KZ brand.


----------



## sino8r

William Tavares said:


> i'm afraid it gets loosen or "fall" inside the case.



If that's the case, send them back and get a torx screwdriver. It will come in handy with every device you use.


----------



## William Tavares

sino8r said:


> If that's the case, send them back and get a torx screwdriver. It will come in handy with every device you use.



It's a 90 day trip.


----------



## sino8r

Podster said:


> I'm Slater fixed you up but here is my last ZS6 Gray shell, tip ridge is clearly there


Is there any difference between the zs6 with and without the ridge/lip? I'm guessing there aren't any differences like zs5 v1 & 2


----------



## sino8r

William Tavares said:


> It's a 90 day trip.


Yeah, screw that. Just open them with the torx and glue very carefully.


----------



## WildSeven

DSebastiao said:


> Thank you all, could you see if yours have this thing:


Got my Green ZS6 from NiceHCK, NO nozzle lip confirmed.


----------



## CoiL

Otto Motor said:


> *2 x 5 = 10?*
> 
> And now the fight of the giants: *ZS5 v1 *against *ZS10*.
> 
> ...


I told ya! ZS5v1 is "accidental legend" of KZ. It is darn great with right setup 
I`m still searching for second one - if anyone here is located in EU and wishes to sell his/her ZS5v1, then please PM me and make fast selling thread (just to make it according to head-fi rules).
I know 2 offers for ZS5v1 but they are located in US and posting cost is ridiculous!


Bartig said:


> ZST + massive controlled amount of bass + warm sound - piercing highs = ZSR.


I think I just "NEED" to buy ZSR in red or white before they dissappear. Though, I have absolutely no need for it and my Rose North Forest has been already shipped and on its way towards me.
But I kind of just "need" to have "best" KZ according to general consensus.


----------



## MariusAB

Hello, has anyone here had experience with soudmagic brand E10 model and could say if it's sounding quality is somehow similar to Kz sounding?  I am waiting to receive first KZ model  - it's Zs6, but it will be my first KZ model and first hybrid model (haven't heard any before). I had famous soundmagic E10 model before and i liked it very much. There wasn't too much low but just enough for me and also middle ant highs were very clear and balanced. But i have lost it but still remember their sound signature,   their sounding was way above the other earphones i had then in similar or higher prices. This time i desided to try KZ, but don't know what to expect, at the moment i have  only other opinions and recommendations.


----------



## F4yze

Okay I found my favourite configuration for the zs10. I replaced the nozzle screen with a washer like my zs6 and used wide bore foam tips. It brought the mids forward.


----------



## paulindss

CoiL said:


> Though, I have absolutely no need for it and my Rose North Forest has been already shipped and on its way towards me.



Looking forward to this


----------



## cyberjunkie

Didn't get a lot of time to listen to on holiday, but I'm playing with them now. Been listening to Ghost, Periphery and some Buckethead. 


These definitely have the shrill highs chopped off and the bass is toned down, so they're not as tiring for long listening sessions. Some of the needed sparkle is gone, might could be fixed with EQ tweaks
They're bulkier and the standard medium size buds don't seem to stay in my ears as easily. I'll try some other sized buds in a bit. 
They're more detailed than the ZS5 
Sound staging / spacing is better than other ZST and ZS5 - instruments separate better, snares especially against a whole
A little more coloured than other KZ earphones - I felt the ATE (while not nearly as detailed) were closest to natural sounding - ZST, then the ZS5 had harsher highs.


----------



## Bartig (Apr 19, 2018)

MariusAB said:


> Hello, has anyone here had experience with soudmagic brand E10 model and could say if it's sounding quality is somehow similar to Kz sounding?  I am waiting to receive first KZ model  - it's Zs6, but it will be my first KZ model and first hybrid model (haven't heard any before). I had famous soundmagic E10 model before and i liked it very much. There wasn't too much low but just enough for me and also middle ant highs were very clear and balanced. But i have lost it but still remember their sound signature,   their sounding was way above the other earphones i had then in similar or higher prices. This time i desided to try KZ, but don't know what to expect, at the moment i have  only other opinions and recommendations.


There is no reason to take a step back to the SoundMagic E10. It's a little legend from 2010-2014, but then it was beaten drastically by better cheap chi-fi. The KZ ATE was my first chi-fi early 2017, while my E10 was my reference model. I got hooked instantly to the rich sound of the ATE, far more detailed and immersive than the smooth sounding SoundMagic. I would definitely not consider the E10 anymore.


----------



## MariusAB

Bartig said:


> There is no reason to take a step back to the SoundMagic E10. It's like a legend from 2010-2014, but then it was beaten drastically by better cheap chifi. Heck, the KZ ATE was my first chifi while my E10 was my reference model. I got hooked instantly to the rich sound, far more detailed than the smooth sounding SoundMagic. I would definitely not consider the E10 anymore.



Thanks for good explanation, so it seems then i haven't made a mistake to trying KZ chifi brand. In these 2013-14 SM E10 looked as one of the best choice in price level about 50 dollars (even now their price is about the same). Now i am waiting because it should be difference from my usual cheap earphones to try the first hybrid from KZ. If they could have their shops in Europe, this would be much easier to try, because buying without trying as we all know not the best choice. Anyway  i am happy that chi fi is becoming good alternative to usual costly  brands.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

CoiL said:


> I told ya! ZS5v1 is "accidental legend" of KZ. It is darn great with right setup
> I`m still searching for second one - if anyone here is located in EU and wishes to sell his/her ZS5v1, then please PM me and make fast selling thread (just to make it according to head-fi rules).
> I know 2 offers for ZS5v1 but they are located in US and posting cost is ridiculous!
> 
> ...



Just got my ZS5 v1 out of my drawer at work (bought them ages ago and haven't really used them). They really are an excellent IEM, especially for the price.

For fun passed them around the office, and got some Effect Audio cables out to test them with. Using them with the Horus was good fun, then the Lionheart and lastly the Ares II.

Yes they change a little with each cable, the pairing that most made sense is with the Ares II due to pricing, it tightens up the sound and I genuinely think that Ares II + ZS5 v1 rivals anything under £200.

Also I had ZS10 delivered yesterday, but haven't opened them yet.


----------



## skajohyros

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Just got my ZS5 v1 out of my drawer at work (bought them ages ago and haven't really used them). They really are an excellent IEM, especially for the price.
> 
> For fun passed them around the office, and got some Effect Audio cables out to test them with. Using them with the Horus was good fun, then the Lionheart and lastly the Ares II.
> 
> ...


Please compare zs10 to zs5 v1. Thanks


----------



## CoiL

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Just got my ZS5 v1 out of my drawer at work (bought them ages ago and haven't really used them). They really are an excellent IEM, especially for the price.
> 
> For fun passed them around the office, and got some Effect Audio cables out to test them with. Using them with the Horus was good fun, then the Lionheart and lastly the Ares II.
> 
> ...


You locate in UK? Willing to sell Your ZS5v1?  It is quite ok post cost from UK to Estonia.


----------



## loomisjohnson

the zs10 seems to be taking the atypical path of getting generally less-than-favorable first impressions--usually the new kz releases get initial accolades before regressing to the mean. it could be that they are  an unexpected tuning to which listeners need to adjust, or it could mean they're not that good--i'll be curious to see more reviews


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

CoiL said:


> You locate in UK? Willing to sell Your ZS5v1?  It is quite ok post cost from UK to Estonia.



They were a gift from my girlfriend, I bought them with the silver cable too. I couldn't sell them, so they will remain with me but likely won't get used much 

This was the first time in about 8 months that I listened to them haha


----------



## Podster

sino8r said:


> Is there any difference between the zs6 with and without the ridge/lip? I'm guessing there aren't any differences like zs5 v1 & 2



Well @sino8r , all of mine Red, Black and Gray have the ridge so I may have just gotten lucky with ridge production runs. Seems the few I've seen without a ridge are the green model. I can tell no difference in my red and black models but as advertised the Gray is/was supposed to be bass enhanced but I'm not so sure it's bass enhancement or for some reason I just feel the gray pair is somewhat more efficient, for me at same volumes as used on the red and black the gray pair sounds a little more lively and does seem to bring out a little more bass Then again I have no testing tools other than a worn out set of ears


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2018)

*After Three Days With The KZ ZS10...Yet Another Zombie Earphone From KZ*
...and using it over extended periods of time with different equipment...

*How can it be characterized*...everything in the following is my opinion and therefore subjective: The ZS10 has *very* *good resolution, a thick lower end and recessed mids with fine treble.*

*How does it compare to other recent KZ multidrivers*: the ZS10 is essentially a marginally better resolving *ZSR* with a similar bass but more distant mids and no sibilance or overdone treble. It has a thicker bass compared to the *ZS5 v1* but similarly recessed mids, albeit not hollow or nasal sounding. And, just like the ZSR, the ZS10 bears little resemble to the more analytical *ZS6*.

These statements are testable! Your turn...

*My overall verdict:* Nothing special!

*Who needs the ZS10*: Anybody who likes the design/looks, collects KZ iems, is half deaf, and who doesn't own all the latest KZs. If you have the ZSR, you should at least catch a few more reviews and educated opinions before spending your money.

*Other opinions: *I have only read the glaring review at the phonograph.net. They don't state their source (forgive me if I can't find it), between the lines you read that they use a FiiO E12 Montblanc amp...which makes for a different listening experience compared to a phone alone (I have this amp, too). Their review is full of emotion (hype, praise) from the beginning, that is the observation part...which is not acceptable. Considering all the ads on their site, I suspect they have a conflict of interest. According to the phonograph, the ZS10 is the best thing since the slice of bread. I would be cautious.

*Why am I so critical:* KZ has been baiting us suckers with tons of recent new earphones by increasing the number of drivers as buying incentive. I have all of them. Bottom line is that the number of their Bellsing drivers is is not correlated with listening pleasure. Many of us will prefer the tonality of the "lower-end" ZSR.

*Why won't the ZS10 be my daily drivers:* the combination of thick bass and thin mids is not appealing to my hearing.

*What role will the ZS10 have in my collection:* it will go into my big graveyard of half-baked KZ multidrivers as another zombie earphone (KS3, ZST, ES3), as yet another example how KZ didn't see the forest for the trees. Considering that they can't get better mids out of 5 drivers shows me that they still have much thinking to do. In the meantime, I get "more" music out of my single-driver $60 Fidue A65 earphone.

*Which KZ earphones do I actually use on a regular basis:* ZSR, HDS1/3, EDR1/2...the rest I rather look at and think back what good deals they were.

*P.S. A general word on in ear monitors: *The Edge of U2 uses a single-driver iem and Beyonce uses a 12-driver iem. Go figure...


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> I had been a TV star all along ...this one ends up with beer and wine as always.



We watched this on the big TV.  Beautiful city!


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> *After Three Days With The KZ ZS10...Yet Another Zombie Earphone From KZ*
> ...and using it over extended periods of time with different equipment...
> 
> *How can it be characterized*...everything in the following is my opinion and therefore subjective: The ZS10 has *very* *good resolution, a thick lower end and recessed mids with fine treble.*
> ...



I am not sure whether KZ has real designers. It feels like a Chinese takeout. Your order is

2 BA
2 DD
1 Silver cable
Total $40+$1 for mic. 

Thank you. come again.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs10 seems to be taking the atypical path of getting generally less-than-favorable first impressions--usually the new kz releases get initial accolades before regressing to the mean. it could be that they are  an unexpected tuning to which listeners need to adjust, or it could mean they're not that good--i'll be curious to see more reviews



It is the recessed mids in combination with a thick bass ...the lack of ability to produce presence in the vocals department has been KZ's problem all along (since introducing multidrivers). You'd expect improvement from the additional drivers added from model to model but this quantity turns out to be window dressing and does not translate into quality. KZ keep on creating high expectations and continue not fulfilling them. My patience is coming to an end. Surely, the ZS10 must be the world's worst 5-driver earphone in terms of mids...and the cheapest.

Your partner Vidal is sensitive to bass. I really look forward to his opinion.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'm so glad I'm going to say jack #@!% about the ZS10 until my review is posted. This thread is a trip and half


----------



## loomisjohnson

Otto Motor said:


> It is the recessed mids in combination with a thick bass ...the lack of ability to produce presence in the vocals department has been KZ's problem all along (since introducing multidrivers). You'd expect improvement from the additional drivers added from model to model but this quantity turns out to be window dressing and does not translate into quality. KZ keep on creating high expectations and continue not fulfilling them. My patience is coming to an end. Surely, the ZS10 must the world's worst 5-driver earphone in terms of mids...and the cheapest.
> 
> Your partner Vidal is sensitive to bass. I really look forward to his opinion.


i ended up selling my (suddenly in high-demand) zs5v1, which i admired but never fell in love with, and ordering the zs10 just to see what they could do with a gazillion drivers. it hasn't even shipped from a month ago, but maybe it'll show eventually. in the meantime i've been spending the most time with my shiny new toy, the **** ues, which is uncannily close to the real ue900s, and with the ed9, which remains unvanquished in my kz pantheon and has more of the vocal presence you refer to....


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm happy listening away with my ZS6 (Green one) with upgraded silver cable and enjoying them very much


----------



## Slater (Apr 19, 2018)

William Tavares said:


> i'm afraid it gets loosen or "fall" inside the case.



The 2-pin plug is molded into the shape of an "H". The indentations of the "H" fit into notches machined into the metal shell (like a key in a way).

It is mechanically held in place by this method, and cannot fall in or out (despite some of them feeling a little bit "loose"). Gluing is totally unnecessary. You will be fine.


----------



## Podster

Otto Motor said:


> It is the recessed mids in combination with a thick bass ...the lack of ability to produce presence in the vocals department has been KZ's problem all along (since introducing multidrivers). You'd expect improvement from the additional drivers added from model to model but this quantity turns out to be window dressing and does not translate into quality. KZ keep on creating high expectations and continue not fulfilling them. My patience is coming to an end. Surely, the ZS10 must be the world's worst 5-driver earphone in terms of mids...and the cheapest.
> 
> Your partner Vidal is sensitive to bass. I really look forward to his opinion.



What I'm basically taking from all these reviews are the ZS10 are lackluster due to the heightened bass and recessed mids, everyone complained about all the treble and sizzle from ZST to ZS6 (mind you I've never heard any of that from any of them but I like maybe even love my treble) so killing the treble in the ZS10 has basically killed all that sweet female vocals which has been a staple for anyone who liked the ZST thru ZS6! Reminds me of the old saying watch out what you ask for because as far astray as KZ can get they are listening I believe. 

ZS10 does not sound like an iem for me (of course I could be wrong and I will be watching for B9's review, a truly trusted ear for Pod) and then there is the fit issue. I'll keep letting the stew cook and who knows I may change my mind plus it gives them time for the new to roll off and more importantly the price to go down And in layman's terms this has just been another A-Holes opinion


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Is there any difference between the zs6 with and without the ridge/lip? I'm guessing there aren't any differences like zs5 v1 & 2



Zero difference.


----------



## Otto Motor

MariusAB said:


> Thanks for good explanation, so it seems then i haven't made a mistake to trying KZ chifi brand. In these 2013-14 SM E10 looked as one of the best choice in price level about 50 dollars (even now their price is about the same). Now i am waiting because it should be difference from my usual cheap earphones to try the first hybrid from KZ. If they could have their shops in Europe, this would be much easier to try, because buying without trying as we all know not the best choice. Anyway  i am happy that chi fi is becoming good alternative to usual costly  brands.


The Soundmagic E10C at $50 compares very well to the KZ HDS3 ($5). No joke! Read the review on headflux.de
http://headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-hds3/

Their verdict: "...In summary, the affordable KZ can really convince more than the budget icon SoundMAGIC E10..."

I confirm this.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Zero difference.


Thanks! So did the zs5 v1 & 2 have any visible differences internally or were they just tuned differently? Also, if you do add a impedance adapter to the zs6 does it kill the treble and volume, just the sibilance or all the above?


----------



## Fransuaa

Hey. I just bought a pair of KZ ZSR and I really don't like the right / left text on them. Is there a way to remove them without damaging the entire earphones' paint?


----------



## Superluc

sino8r said:


> if you do add a impedance adapter to the zs6 does it kill the treble and volume, just the sibilance or all the above?


With my rig i feel like it takes away something from all the highs, while not take enough from those peaks for tame the sibilance. Doing a bit of more limited EQ and add a pair of foams is a better solution.


----------



## Qualcheduno

Remembering how much I was impressed the EDR2s I ordered for my GF, I've bought another pair and today they arrived. Now I have to wait for the KZ tips, in the meantime the Tennmak Turbo tips will suffice.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 19, 2018)

Fransuaa said:


> Hey. I just bought a pair of KZ ZSR and I really don't like the right / left text on them. Is there a way to remove them without damaging the entire earphones' paint?



I've sanded down my ZS3 using sandpaper (water) #400 and I liked the matte black result, but if you want to back the shiny layer you'll just need higher sandpaper and some time polishing.


----------



## Fransuaa

Makahl said:


> I've sanded down my ZS3 using sandpaper #400 and I liked the matte black result, but if you want to back the shiny layer you'll just need higher sandpaper and some time polishing.


So what number do i need exactly? Im very bad at this. Sould i start directly with the high one? Thanks for you answer


----------



## Makahl

Fransuaa said:


> So what number do i need exactly? Im very bad at this. Sould i start directly with the high one? Thanks for you answer


It's pretty easy in fact, this user has posted more details: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2008#post-14153690

I forgot to say, I just sanded down ZS3 after failing using alcohol isopropyl/acetone (however, that worked on ZST for removing its tags) so might give it a try too.


----------



## Podster

Fransuaa said:


> Hey. I just bought a pair of KZ ZSR and I really don't like the right / left text on them. Is there a way to remove them without damaging the entire earphones' paint?



I have found if you tip your head/opposite ear to those gawking the letters are right side up Mine annoy me as well but not enough to ruin that sweet glossy finish, you could always tell people the stamper does it while standing on his/her head


----------



## MariusAB

Makahl said:


> I've sanded down my ZS3 using sandpaper (water) #400 and I liked the matte black result, but if you want to back the shiny layer you'll just need higher sandpaper and some time polishing.



Your cable in this photo is  painted somehow by yourself? Or you could buy such color cable for KZ, because original they don't sell black color. Am i wrong?Everywhere i see it's whiter silvered or the one i have ordered - a little bit darker oxygen free cooper silvered (forhaps it's newer the same that comes with zs10). Because black color is one of my favorites and it really looks coll when cable and the earphones are the same.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Thanks! So did the zs5 v1 & 2 have any visible differences internally or were they just tuned differently?



ZS1 v1 and ZS2 v2 have differences internally - a different BA driver combination, different BA driver placement, and different internal wiring. They are tuned differently as well.

Visually, from the outside, they appear identical. Without opening them up or removing the nozzle screen, the only way to tell the version is to shine a light into the nozzle and look for 1 BA driver or 2 BA drivers (which are mounted in the nozzle).

This is an example of a ZS5 v2 (notice the 2 BA drivers in the nozzle):


----------



## Makahl

MariusAB said:


> Your cable in this photo is  painted somehow by yourself? Or you could buy such color cable for KZ, because original they don't sell black color. Am i wrong?Everywhere i see it's whiter silvered or the one i have ordered - a little bit darker oxygen free cooper silvered (forhaps it's newer the same that comes with zs10). Because black color is one of my favorites and it really looks coll when cable and the earphones are the same.



No! It's the TRN V10 cable. you can find it here.


----------



## MariusAB

Otto Motor said:


> The Soundmagic E10C at $50 compares very well to the KZ HDS3 ($5). No joke! Read the review on headflux.de
> http://headflux.de/knowledge-zenith-kz-hds3/
> 
> Their verdict: "...In summary, the affordable KZ can really convince more than the budget icon SoundMAGIC E10..."
> ...


Thank a lot for this comparison link, well, i am shocked   I really haven't thought that SM E10 so much dethroned today (lost it's glory but not the price somehow). After this i am waiting for my Kz much more, because it should be new waters for me. I don't know i i had the right choice starting from Zs6 (as i see there many are favoring ZSR as the best overall sounding). But after i will receive ZS6 and become familiar with it, i could  make other Chifi  investment, this time with ZSR...Who knows...


----------



## MariusAB

Makahl said:


> No! It's the TRN V10 cable. you can find it here.



Sadly i haven't seen this option  when i have ordered mine, but as i see it's universal - fits to ZSR, ZS, so it's better choice than separate cables with different angles..Becouse of nice black colour it's worth to try. Thanks a lot. Don't think that anyone received upgrade in sound with such cables going from originals from kz, but the look is completely different.


----------



## Otto Motor

MariusAB said:


> Thank a lot for this comparison link, well, i am shocked   I really haven't thought that SM E10 so much dethroned today (lost it's glory but not the price somehow). After this i am waiting for my Kz much more, because it should be new waters for me. I don't know i i had the right choice starting from Zs6 (as i see there many are favoring ZSR as the best overall sounding). But after i will receive ZS6 and become familiar with it, i could  make other Chifi  investment, this time with ZSR...Who knows...


Welcome to a fine hobby. You will be going through a learning curve that helps you define your listening preferences. And you already started with a very polarizing earphone, the ZS6 with its prominent treble. I recommend starting with iems that are generally loved - a list upon request. 

My rule of thumb: the best earphone is many earphones...at least initially. 

And yes, the KZ HDS1 and HDS3 as well as the KZ EDR1 and EDR2 are all good earphones...and all of them together cost you a total of $20.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2018)

*Tinaudio T2 cable issue*
...wrong thread


----------



## MariusAB

Otto Motor said:


> Welcome to a fine hobby. You will be going through a learning curve that helps you define your listening preferences. And you already started with a very polarizing earphone, the ZS6 with its prominent treble. I recommend starting with iems that are generally loved - a list upon request.
> 
> My rule of thumb: the best earphone is many earphones...at least initially.
> 
> And yes, the KZ HDS1 and HDS3 as well as the KZ EDR1 and EDR2 are all good earphones...and all of them together cost you a total of $20.



Actually i have started from Hi fi but not head fi. My  experience in head fi is very narrow. In chifi is absolutely zero. But more and more i realize that head fi could be no less or even more  interesting hobby and much less costing - with chifi especially. More possibilities to try also. I guess few from the loved models  i see in your  underlined signature   Mostly from chi fi... From  KZ , are they really making listenable earphones for such money as EDR example - i still can't understand this. My relatively cheap speaker system wires cost alone as all popular KZ phones combined. This is only example...


----------



## BattlePope (Apr 19, 2018)

Hi all,

Recently got a pair of ZS3's and really like them so far. One of the cables it came with was kinda ripped though so it doesn't stay in my ear nearly as well as the other (undamaged) cord. Figure I might as well get a cord replacement to remedy this. Was going to get the standard silver cable that everyone recommends (these, right?) but was wondering...is there a good Bluetooth cable alternative? I've seen them on Amazon but was curious if they're any good. Silver cable or Bluetooth? Interested in the Bluetooth for general convenience and running.

Thanks.

Edit: I'm also wondering if the ZS3's aren't staying in as well due to the poor fit of the ear tips. Tried all 3 sizes that came with the ZS3's and (with virtually all of them) I'll get a great fit initially but then they slowly pop out a bit resulting in a noticeable difference in sound. This is my first pair of quality IEMs and as such don't have any other ear tips I can try out. I know it's hard to make a recommendation and that probably trial-and-error is the best way for me to find a tip that fits me well but...can anyone recommend an ear tip that typically provides a pretty good fit (for most users) that won't break the bank?


----------



## Bartig

Otto Motor said:


> *After Three Days With The KZ ZS10...Yet Another Zombie Earphone From KZ*
> ...and using it over extended periods of time with different equipment...
> 
> *How can it be characterized*...everything in the following is my opinion and therefore subjective: The ZS10 has *very* *good resolution, a thick lower end and recessed mids with fine treble.*
> ...


Haha, love that Phonograph sticker!

But wait! I wrote the ZS10 off, but it seems like I had a polarity malfunction. Plugged one of the cables in ‘wrong’ now and suddenly, the strange and fake tonality seems to be gone and there is now something I can actually call a soundstage.

The ZS10 adventure continues


----------



## bsoplinger

Makahl said:


> It's pretty easy in fact, this user has posted more details: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2008#post-14153690
> 
> I forgot to say, I just sanded down ZS3 after failing using alcohol isopropyl/acetone (however, that worked on ZST for removing its tags) so might give it a try too.


Speaking of removing stupid lettering… Has anyone been successful removing the lettering from the ZSR?


----------



## F4yze

Reading all these negative reviews for the zs10 makes me feel glad that I'm still highly enjoying it


----------



## Zlivan

@Bartig 
Earphones out of phase sound like crap, that would be the first thing I'd check if they don't sound as expected.


----------



## stryed (Apr 19, 2018)

I did not do it on purpose...but I've lost my second commuting KZ5v2. Will definitely not bring out the IT01 with my habbit of losing IEMs (might have been stolen!!! Them bastards!).
Hesitating betweeen a new ZS5 that I like for soundstage and good response to EQ in the bass department (that could hold its candle against my IT01 outdoors), or the ZS6, ZSR or ZS10. I'l surprised the KZ6 is still so pricey.

There's a special ZS10 on KZ's aliexpress store where they give away a EDR1 too!

EDIT: ****! I've found them in my other jacket.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Speaking of removing stupid lettering… Has anyone been successful removing the lettering from the ZSR?



You don’t like upside down lettering on your IEMs?


----------



## riffrafff

HungryPanda said:


> I'm happy listening away with my ZS6 (Green one) with upgraded silver cable and enjoying them very much





Okay, then.  That was...different.


----------



## bsoplinger

Slater said:


> You don’t like upside down lettering on your IEMs?


I'm too old and fat to walk around on my hands


----------



## Fargeg

bsoplinger said:


> I'm too old and fat to walk around on my hands


The best solution is clearly to move to Australia, then


----------



## snip3r77

Otto Motor said:


> It is the recessed mids in combination with a thick bass ...the lack of ability to produce presence in the vocals department has been KZ's problem all along (since introducing multidrivers). You'd expect improvement from the additional drivers added from model to model but this quantity turns out to be window dressing and does not translate into quality. KZ keep on creating high expectations and continue not fulfilling them. My patience is coming to an end. Surely, the ZS10 must be the world's worst 5-driver earphone in terms of mids...and the cheapest.
> 
> Your partner Vidal is sensitive to bass. I really look forward to his opinion.


It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1

More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes


----------



## lmfboy01

snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes





Otto Motor said:


> It is the recessed mids in combination with a thick bass ...the lack of ability to produce presence in the vocals department has been KZ's problem all along (since introducing multidrivers). You'd expect improvement from the additional drivers added from model to model but this quantity turns out to be window dressing and does not translate into quality. KZ keep on creating high expectations and continue not fulfilling them. My patience is coming to an end. Surely, the ZS10 must be the world's worst 5-driver earphone in terms of mids...and the cheapest.
> 
> Your partner Vidal is sensitive to bass. I really look forward to his opinion.



Maybe you got a dud, so yeah their QC aint great, probably more hard then before with additional drivers.  I can tell you for sure that my left sides dynamic isn't pumping any bass like my right side.  Gotta contact my dealer to see whats up.


----------



## B9Scrambler

snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes



Sounds like KZ did you in hard my boy.


----------



## snip3r77

Haha not really

Seriously there are better iems out there 
Don't you think so ?



B9Scrambler said:


> Sounds like KZ did you in hard my boy.


----------



## WildSeven

snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes


KZ product may not be perfect but they are certainly not cheaply made, apples to apples, I only see KZ offer good value iem.


----------



## B9Scrambler

snip3r77 said:


> Haha not really
> 
> Seriously there are better iems out there
> Don't you think so ?



Of course there are. But for what they are they're great to some, not so to others. Same goes for every brand, and at every price point.


----------



## CYoung234

snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes



Thanks for sharing....

Seriously, not sure why people post comments like this. Sorry that you feel burned by KZ, but I don't understand why you would continue to post in a KZ forum if you feel this way about KZ? 

You have a right to your own opinion, but I don't share it. I own a number of non KZ iems, including the Tin Audio T2, and the KZ ZS6 is still my daily driver. With my sources, it sounds best, to me. I actually have two of them and 2 ZS5v1's, but the ZS6 wins for overall. I like the T2, but more with an amp than straight out of my phone. I like the ADV S2000 quite a bit, and also am listening a fair amount to my UISII CM5 at the moment. I have a ZS10, and ED15 and as of this morning, a Rose North Forest on order....


----------



## snip3r77

B9Scrambler said:


> Of course there are. But for what they are they're great to some, not so to others. Same goes for every brand, and at every price point.



The thing is kz is too cowboy for my liking. Haphazard design , mark up and provide discount during launch and as time goes by the price might be cheaper than the discounted price.

What I wanted to say is cheap-fi doesn't need to start with kz. 

Every other thread you will read feedback about piercing highs , recessed mids, shoddy qc . The antidote is to eq it, apply mods here and there .

I'm just creating an awareness that's all.

I'm satsified with my zs5v1 , I'd picked it up once in a while when I go for trips whereby it can get lost without me worrying it


----------



## lmfboy01

How do I get one ZS5V1?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2018)

*KZ ZS10 after 50 hrs of break in...
*
Still the same: the ZS10 sounds like a more refined ZSR with relatively unfocused bass and more recessed mids (with the iPhone 5S; bass tightens a bit when adding the audioquest dragonfly dac/amp). In comparison, the bass of the Focal Sphear and Fidue A65 is cleaner and more subtle with more present mids.

While people are  jumping off the bandwagon, the ED15 hype train was delayed and is reaching town two days late [please forgive these silly puns].]


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2018)

lmfboy01 said:


> Maybe you got a dud, so yeah their QC aint great, probably more hard then before with additional drivers.  I can tell you for sure that my left sides dynamic isn't pumping any bass like my right side.  Gotta contact my dealer to see whats up.


No, I didn't get a dud. And I never had any problems with the manufacturing of a KZ earphone. It is just one more of (almost) the same.


----------



## Slater (Apr 19, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes



KZ's aren't perfect, and yes there are way better choices available. But there sure are WORSE choices out there.

If a $4 EDR1 introduces someone to the world of HiFi, or wakes someone up from the fact that there's life outside of the Skullcandy isle at Best Buy, or is all a starving student can afford until they are out of school, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with KZ in my book. I see it as a perfectly valid starting point for a lot of people in this hobby. Just like starting off with cheaper $50 bottle of Scotch to learn about it and acquire a taste for it is a hell of a lot smarter than spending $10k on your very 1st bottle of Scotch, when you don't even know if you like Scotch yet (nor can appreciate a $10k bottle).

If you dislike KZ as much as you say you do, is it worth hanging out in a thread solely dedicated to KZ impressions?

BTW, those ZS5 v1 of yours are in very high demand. You could easily sell them, and wash your hands of KZ once and for all.


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 after 50 hrs of break in...
> *
> Still the same: the ZS10 sounds like a more refined ZSR with relatively unfocused bass and more recessed mids (with the iPhone 5S; bass tightens a bit when adding the audioquest dragonfly dac/amp). In comparison, the bass of the Focal Sphear and Fidue A65 is cleaner and more subtle with more present mids.
> 
> While people are  jumping off the bandwagon, the ED15 hype train was delayed and is reaching town two days late.


I hope ED15 is better since there are only 2 drivers inside. There is less chance to screw up versus ZS10.

There are so many things that could go wrong with multi-drivers and crossover. Each and every driver has to be soldered correctly and the crossover has to be tested separately. I am not sure whether KZ tests each earphone after assembly.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 19, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes


I don't think KZ sucks...or bites. They just did not tune the ZS10 to my taste. The ZSR is very similar but I really love it. There is a thin line between love and hate


----------



## Slater

phower said:


> I hope ED15 is better since there are only 2 drivers inside. There is less chance to screw up versus ZS10.
> 
> There are so many things that could go wrong with multi-drivers and crossover. Each and every driver has to be soldered correctly and the crossover has to be tested separately. I am not sure whether KZ tests each earphone after assembly.



Heck, plenty of IEM companies totally botch up single dynamics beyond words, and they only have ONE driver. So that's no more or less consolation haha


----------



## Zerohour88

snip3r77 said:


> The thing is kz is too cowboy for my liking. Haphazard design , mark up and provide discount during launch and as time goes by the price might be cheaper than the discounted price.
> 
> What I wanted to say is cheap-fi doesn't need to start with kz.
> 
> ...



People wouldn't mind much if you had beef with some models, as with many people around here (despite being a KZ thread)

collectively calling "KZ sucks" is pushing it when there's stuff like the ED9, EDR1 and ZSR around.


----------



## lmfboy01 (Apr 19, 2018)

nt


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I dunno about y'all, but you'd have to pry my ZS5 v1's from my cold dead hands.

I'd take my ZS5 v1s over my HD 6XX.  Well worth my $18.  Leagues better than other popular IEMs like my old Piston 3.


----------



## bsoplinger

There are a number of the inexpensive KZ offerings that are really good for the price. When it comes to under $15 KZ has a number of great options. I think that at least in part this is why the newer expensive designs had the big initial hype. They just seem to have missed using what they were doing with the earlier models in creating their newer I'm sure more profitable designs. Other than the ZSR and perhaps the KZ 5 v1, which I've never heard, what newer models don't have extra highs and bass, ie an extreme V tuning, that people actually like? 

I've been impressed enough with those earlier designs and the ZSR that I decided to get the ZS10 even though I didn't plan to initially and also the ED15 since I really liked the EDR2 and HDS3. If neither of these turn out well I'll probably stick with things like the Yersen FEN-2000 and TRN V20 both of which are more than $10 less than the ZS10 and deliver amazing musical tunings as opposed to the fun V which I don't generally like because I like midrange.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> There are a number of the inexpensive KZ offerings that are really good for the price. When it comes to under $15 KZ has a number of great options. I think that at least in part this is why the newer expensive designs had the big initial hype. They just seem to have missed using what they were doing with the earlier models in creating their newer I'm sure more profitable designs. Other than the ZSR and perhaps the KZ 5 v1, which I've never heard, what newer models don't have extra highs and bass, ie an extreme V tuning, that people actually like?
> 
> I've been impressed enough with those earlier designs and the ZSR that I decided to get the ZS10 even though I didn't plan to initially and also the ED15 since I really liked the EDR2 and HDS3. If neither of these turn out well I'll probably stick with things like the Yersen FEN-2000 and TRN V20 both of which are more than $10 less than the ZS10 and deliver amazing musical tunings as opposed to the fun V which I don't generally like because I like midrange.



So you bring up an interesting point.

KZ was started by someone who left AT. As a new startup brand, they knew they had to try and produce a decent product at cut throat prices. This allows new and small companies to gain a following, and slowly start increasing revenue (which can be reinvested to grow the business).

TRN was started by people who left KZ. I find it no surprise that they both of their IEMs were offered at cut throat prices. I am willing to bet that TRN is going to be a company to watch in the next few years. Sure, their 1st offering (V10) was a flop, but everyone stumbles at 1st (certainly a few of KZs 1st offerings were turds, before they found their 'groove').


----------



## bsoplinger (Apr 20, 2018)

Slater said:


> So you bring up an interesting point.
> 
> KZ was started by someone who left AT. As a new startup brand, they knew they had to try and produce a decent product at cut throat prices. This allows new and small companies to gain a following, and slowly start increasing revenue (which can be reinvested to grow the business).
> 
> TRN was started by people who left KZ. I find it no surprise that they both of their IEMs were offered at cut throat prices. I am willing to bet that TRN is going to be a company to watch in the next few years. Sure, their 1st offering (V10) was a flop, but everyone stumbles at 1st (certainly a few of KZs 1st offerings were turds, before they found their 'groove').


Makes sense. I for one really like the Yersen FEN-2000 although I hate both cables in part because they most likely did do cut throat pricing. So I spent $7 to get a nice cheap MMCX cable to replace the stock offerings. Still barely broke $30.

With the sound they managed with their second IEM the TRN V20 makes sure that I'll keep an eye out for their next one too.

To get back to topic, I'm eagerly awaiting my ED15 and ED7? (the bamboo one, small sized) to see how these sound. I hear that the swimmer with mine made it to the US west coast so hopefully within the week.


----------



## snip3r77

SomeTechNoob said:


> I dunno about y'all, but you'd have to pry my ZS5 v1's from my cold dead hands.
> 
> I'd take my ZS5 v1s over my HD 6XX.  Well worth my $18.  Leagues better than other popular IEMs like my old Piston 3.


Same I'd like to keep it too hehe.
Guys don't envy me


----------



## snip3r77

Slater said:


> So you bring up an interesting point.
> 
> KZ was started by someone who left AT. As a new startup brand, they knew they had to try and produce a decent product at cut throat prices. This allows new and small companies to gain a following, and slowly start increasing revenue (which can be reinvested to grow the business).
> 
> TRN was started by people who left KZ. I find it no surprise that they both of their IEMs were offered at cut throat prices. I am willing to bet that TRN is going to be a company to watch in the next few years. Sure, their 1st offering (V10) was a flop, but everyone stumbles at 1st (certainly a few of KZs 1st offerings were turds, before they found their 'groove').


Trn I feel is tons better than kz. Imho


----------



## Bartig (Apr 20, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes


Stop trolling, please.  I bought the KZ ATE and totally fell in love with it. Best purchase I ever did. Over 100 people bought it on my recommendation and everyone seemed to love it. I still receive Twitter DM’s from people thanking me for my blog and tweets about them. 



snip3r77 said:


> Trn I feel is tons better than kz. Imho


That doesn’t make any sense after two earphones.


----------



## stimuz

SomeTechNoob said:


> I dunno about y'all, but you'd have to pry my ZS5 v1's from my cold dead hands.
> 
> I'd take my ZS5 v1s over my HD 6XX.  Well worth my $18.  Leagues better than other popular IEMs like my old Piston 3.



I haven't run into chifi IEMs yet that I would consider just better than 6XX but I have had quite a few that excel in certain areas over 6XX. I was super unimpressed by Piston 3s which was my last chifi IEMs, picked up a pair when I was late to the Piston 2 party. I was very unimpressed by them, gave them away in fact. Did the same with Rock Zircons this round on IEMs, the only thing I liked about rocks were how easy they were to insert.


----------



## stimuz

Otto Motor said:


> I don't think KZ sucks...or bites. They just did not tune the ZS10 to my taste. The ZSR is very similar but I really love it. There is a thin line between love and hate



Damn, which I had a point of reference for ZSR. ZS10 on the way as well as 4 other IEMs, hopefully it doesn't go straight to the drawer for me. Is it at least good for movies and stuff?


----------



## CoiL (Apr 20, 2018)

SomeTechNoob said:


> I dunno about y'all, but you'd have to pry my ZS5 v1's from my cold dead hands.
> I'd take my ZS5 v1s over my HD 6XX.  Well worth my $18.  Leagues better than other popular IEMs like my old Piston 3.


Not quite same but I prefer my ZS5v1 with my HW&FW modified DX50 over Fidelio X1 + HW modded desk source sometimes.


snip3r77 said:


> Same I'd like to keep it too hehe.
> Guys don't envy me


Damn... was already hoping that You would sell it to me! ;P


----------



## F4yze

stimuz said:


> Damn, which I had a point of reference for ZSR. ZS10 on the way as well as 4 other IEMs, hopefully it doesn't go straight to the drawer for me. Is it at least good for movies and stuff?



I think it would work great with movies, especially action packed ones. Also, I think the sound is highly dependent on the source. The zs10 sounds good on my lg v30 hifi dac on normal mode. But after tricking my phone to switch to aux mode, the sound noticeably improved due to the higher power output.


----------



## maxxevv

New arrivals ....


----------



## MariusAB

maxxevv said:


> New arrivals ....



Greetings with the new CHIFI , it's really interesting which one you will prefer after listening,


----------



## toddy0191 (Apr 20, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Not quite same but I prefer my ZS5v1 with my HW&FW modified DX50 over Fidelio X1 + HW modded desk source sometimes.
> 
> Damn... was already hoping that You would sell it to me! ;P



How's much is shopping from the uk to Estonia as I have 3 pairs and would be willing to sell one? Never sold anything through HF before though so would need some guidance!

Had the ZS10 for a day now and was A/B ing it with the Zs5 v1 last night and they have a very similar signature with the mids being  slightly more forward in the ZS5. Believe it or not IMO the soundstage is wider in the ZS10.

Technically the Zs10 is better and you can tell there is a crossover as separation is better as is  the resolution.  I want to spend more time before churning out hyperbole about them , but I'm confident they'll get a lot of use.


----------



## willjie90

Clocked in 100h+ of burning-in with the ZS10. The tiny bit of sibilance i heard out of the box is gone. Mids are still too recessed. Pretty meh IMO. Guess this will be the last KZ for me. This will serve as my backup for bad weather cycling.


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## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Had the ZS10 for a day now and was A/B ing it with the Zs5 v1 last night and they have a very similar signature with the mids being  slightly more forward in the ZS5.





willjie90 said:


> Mids are still too recessed. Pretty meh IMO. Guess this will be the last KZ for me. This will serve as my backup for bad weather cycling.



We are cementing the perception that the ZS10 lacks mids. Yep, even the ZS5 v1 was not blessed with forward mids at all. Driven with the dragonfly dac/amp, the ZS5 sounds airier with a/because of its cleaner bass. What source(s) are you guys using?

With the ZS10 KZ are close to getting it right - but effed it up completely just by being a tinge off in the vocals department. Pulled out the iBasso IT01 for comparison last night: wonderfully full and warm voices on top of the baseline (and not struggling against and beaten up by it) ...sorry, there is no comparison between the two. None at all.

Wonder whether the KZ guys like their product.


----------



## loomisjohnson

CYoung234 said:


> Thanks for sharing....
> 
> Seriously, not sure why people post comments like this. Sorry that you feel burned by KZ, but I don't understand why you would continue to post in a KZ forum if you feel this way about KZ?
> 
> You have a right to your own opinion, but I don't share it. I own a number of non KZ iems, including the Tin Audio T2, and the KZ ZS6 is still my daily driver. With my sources, it sounds best, to me. I actually have two of them and 2 ZS5v1's, but the ZS6 wins for overall. I like the T2, but more with an amp than straight out of my phone. I like the ADV S2000 quite a bit, and also am listening a fair amount to my UISII CM5 at the moment. I have a ZS10, and ED15 and as of this morning, a Rose North Forest on order....


what i will concede is that while kz is still the go-to in the $5-10 space, the competition has really caught up in the $>20 category, with makers like ****, adv and innumerable others pushing out models that are better built and arguably better-sounding. it's also important to keep some time perspective, which is to say that while a current $30 budget champ may very well outperform a $200 model from a few years ago, it's unlikley you'll find a great current $30 model which outperforms a great current $200 model


----------



## toddy0191 (Apr 20, 2018)

@Otto Motor

Straight from my rockboxed Xduoo X3 whilst  A/B ing, but have had the ZS10s straight out of my Exynos S8 and don't notice the same level of difference as I do with the ZS5 between phone and DAP.

Not tried with an amp in the chain but do have the Fiio E6 and the topping NX2.

I don't think the mids are too recessed for my taste and think guitars pianos and vocals sound good on both. I'm a guitarist and the sound of guitars both acoustic and electric are the first things I listen for when trying earphones,  as it's a sound I'm completely ocd about!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> @Otto Motor
> 
> Straight from my rockboxed Xduoo X3 whilst  A/B ing, but have had the ZS10s straight out of my Exynos S8 and don't notice the same level of difference as I do with the ZS5 between phone and DAP.
> 
> ...


There was one qualified ZS5 v1. review in particular that reported nasal and hollow, recessed mids in the ZS5 v1. And you say, the mids in the ZS5 are more forward than in the ZS10 (although not hollow). I am just counting 1 and 1 together.

Somebody on this thread summarized the comments on the ZS10 as negative. I don't see any colouring: if something is analyzed and reported as it is, there is no flavour to it. The comments are simply less favourable when a product does not fulfill expectations.

It is what it is!


----------



## snip3r77

CoiL said:


> Not quite same but I prefer my ZS5v1 with my HW&FW modified DX50 over Fidelio X1 + HW modded desk source sometimes.
> 
> Damn... was already hoping that You would sell it to me! ;P


Honestly What is good is good haha.
Yeah yeah yeah I'd keep the zs5v1


willjie90 said:


> Clocked in 100h+ of burning-in with the ZS10. The tiny bit of sibilance i heard out of the box is gone. Mids are still too recessed. Pretty meh IMO. Guess this will be the last KZ for me. This will serve as my backup for bad weather cycling.


Yeah as a backup iem


----------



## willjie90

Otto Motor said:


> We are cementing the perception that the ZS10 lacks mids. Yep, even the ZS5 v1 was not blessed with forward mids at all. Driven with the dragonfly dac/amp, the ZS5 sounds airier with a/because of its cleaner bass. What source(s) are you guys using?
> 
> With the ZS10 KZ are close to getting it right - but effed it up completely just by being a tinge off in the vocals department. Pulled out the iBasso IT0! for comparison last night: wonderfully full and warm voices on top of the baseline (and not struggling against and beaten up by it) ...sorry, there is no comparison between the two. None at all.
> 
> Wonder whether the KZ guys like their product.



My sources are iPhone 7+, Hidizs Ap60, Fiio X5iii with or without Fiio A5. Amping certainly helps with ZS10 but still pretty meh. Though I can't comment much, my ears are spoiled by the sweet sweet mids of UM mentor V1.


----------



## Otto Motor

willjie90 said:


> My sources are iPhone 7+, Hidizs Ap60, Fiio X5iii with or without Fiio A5. Amping certainly helps with ZS10 but still pretty meh. Though I can't comment much, my ears are spoiled by the sweet sweet mids of UM mentor V1.


The UM Mentor V1 retails at $1449. Don't you think that's a bit much mentoring for the poor ZS10?

I am going for the **** UE as recommended not only by Loomis. Appears to be another underappreciated 2016 jewel (like the Fidue A65). Hey, and the **** UE tops the Phonograph's chart above the ZS10.


----------



## Podster (Apr 20, 2018)

BattlePope said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Recently got a pair of ZS3's and really like them so far. One of the cables it came with was kinda ripped though so it doesn't stay in my ear nearly as well as the other (undamaged) cord. Figure I might as well get a cord replacement to remedy this. Was going to get the standard silver cable that everyone recommends (these, right?) but was wondering...is there a good Bluetooth cable alternative? I've seen them on Amazon but was curious if they're any good. Silver cable or Bluetooth? Interested in the Bluetooth for general convenience and running.
> 
> ...



I've come to the realization that all the Chi-Fi clear sheath cables turn green eventually,

I'd go with a darker sheath SP cable.



snip3r77 said:


> It's great to know that ppl finally realise kz sucks. I'm just lucky that my first buy is my last buy , the zs5v1
> 
> More ppl should know that cheap is what kz has , be more resourceful look for other iem like t2 , tfz , meme and the likes



Well you are entitled to your opinion but I think you are dead wrong in your view of KZ which I'm entitled to as well. Nice of you to stop by though


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> I've come to the realization that all the Chi-Fi clear sheath cables turn green eventually,
> 
> I'd go with a darker sheath SP cable.



https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141001.2.64dd3cdcaRJ0lu&id=531952741330

tested this cable (along with the DIY SK846, great value too), didn't turn green after one year though issue was the MMCX jack got a bit loose, which is a pity.


----------



## paulindss

Otto Motor said:


> I am going for the **** UE as recommended not only by Loomis. Appears to be another underappreciated 2016 jewel (like the Fidue A65). Hey, and the **** UE tops the Phonograph's chart above the ZS10



I have always been curious about these. Looking forward.


----------



## willjie90

Otto Motor said:


> The UM Mentor V1 retails at $1449. Don't you think that's a bit much mentoring for the poor ZS10?
> 
> I am going for the **** UE as recommended not only by Loomis. Appears to be another underappreciated 2016 jewel (like the Fidue A65). Hey, and the **** UE tops the Phonograph's chart above the ZS10.



I agree and that's why I said I can't comment much because I am utterly spoiled. I do own a few KZs and I would say ZSR and ZS5v1 are great (faithful office companions). KZ went great with ZSR and I had high hope for ZS10.


----------



## Comebackboy

Hello all! Finally got my ZS10. I had been listening to me ZS6 the whole day, now I'm on the ZS10. First impressions:

Warm-sounding, and darker than the ZS6. Definitely does not have the treble issues that ZS6 had. Much more comfortable at high volumes.

Bass is less punchy, but sounds more deep. Still pretty good for me imo, though I do not think bassheads will appreciate it.

Once again, vocals are still lacking. I've had ZS3, ZST, ZS5v1, ZS6 and now ZS10. Up til now I still feel KZ fails to address the problem with vocals. It is better on the ZS10 no doubt, but I don't think its forward driven and full enough. Still feels recessed compared to everything else. Though I appreciate the effort from KZ to try to address this. 

Soundstage is very impressive. I thought the ZS6 was impressive but ZS10 is even better. Separation is also very good. Quite crisp, does not miss out much details. 

Overall I feel that it sounds more well-rounded(?) as compared to the ZS6. ZS6 is still really good, but I feel lacked abit of cohesiveness. The ZS10 improves this.

Will try to update as I continue to test it! So far I'm satisfied with my purchase. It's definitely an upgrade from ZS6/ZS5 in my opinion. Works well with pretty much all kinds of music.


----------



## Otto Motor

*The General Problem With Human Ears...
*
Some ear shapes may harmonize better with the ZS10 than others. The phonograph reports natural vent blockage by the wrong ears (such as mine, model "Prince Charles"), which leads to a boomy bass that bleeds into the mids. 

Cosmetic surgery may remove this problem.


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> i ended up selling my (suddenly in high-demand) zs5v1, which i admired but never fell in love with, and ordering the zs10 just to see what they could do with a gazillion drivers. it hasn't even shipped from a month ago, but maybe it'll show eventually. in the meantime i've been spending the most time with my shiny new toy, the **** ues, which is uncannily close to the real ue900s, and with the ed9, which remains unvanquished in my kz pantheon and has more of the vocal presence you refer to....



if you're going to compare the **** UES with the UE900S, can you also compare it to the EMI-CI880/Estron C630? tested the UE900S and owned the EMI (and liked it very much), so quite interested in your opinion

might order it along with the Rose North Forest


----------



## toddy0191

Otto Motor said:


> There was one qualified ZS5 v1. review in particular that reported nasal and hollow, recessed mids in the ZS5 v1. And you say, the mids in the ZS5 are more forward than in the ZS10 (although not hollow). I am just counting 1 and 1 together.
> 
> Somebody on this thread summarized the comments on the ZS10 as negative. I don't see any colouring: if something is analyzed and reported as it is, there is no flavour to it. The comments are simply less favourable when a product does not fulfill expectations.
> 
> It is what it is!



Recessed / distant, not sure if these terms are interchangeable, but I feel this is how the the larger soundtage of the ZS10 is created.   

One of the frustrating things about this hobby is how subjective people's opions are, based upon our own tastes, music preference and general hearing / anatomy.  Because of this people argue over things that are irrelelvant to each of the indivduals involved, when,  like you say "it is what it is!"

One thing you can't deny about the ZS10 is that if someone had said 2 years ago that you would be able to by a 4+1 hybrid with a crossover for £21 in 2 years they would have been certified!

For ithe price I paid it's great value IMO.

On another note, I'm certain you would  love the Tennmark Crazy Cello, it has some of he loveliest mids out of my collection and is still one of my favourites.


----------



## willjie90

toddy0191 said:


> One of the frustrating things about this hobby is how subjective people's opions are, based upon our own tastes, music preference and general hearing / anatomy


Totally agree with this fine statement


----------



## weedophile

I think what @snip3r77 is trying to say is not criticising KZ, but its just the hype that surrounds their latest IEM whenever a new one is released. Same goes for their motto which is something along the line of u will get one IEM from us which u like, eventually.

So it pretty sums up what KZ is trying to do, its either hit or miss for some of us. Like the ZS6 is always mentioned for piercing trebles, or the ZS3 being too bassy for some. They dont really have a "mainstream IEM" that satisfy all of us. So every new product is like a clinical trial and we are their lab rats lol, just that if its cheap, we will just say "**** it" and move on

For the price point, i think the performance is amazing, but once u get to a decent price level (say $50 or even $35 during the sale) u can get so much out of the money then trying dat phat new KZ IEM. Like for example the TA T2, Yersen, Z5000, or even the proven ZSR.

Not many people can burn that $50 for a new meh IEM and for myself even if i can afford it, i just take the passive approach by getting on the hype train when its not hyped anymore xD

PS: I've owned some KZ iems previously but sold all of them as i didnt liked the fit. The one that i still miss today is the ZST. If only they were compatible with my source (Walnut and Zishan DSD then), i would have kept them (love the brightish signature). They go well with my Benjie S5 but it wasnt my go to daily source


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141001.2.64dd3cdcaRJ0lu&id=531952741330
> 
> tested this cable (along with the DIY SK846, great value too), didn't turn green after one year though issue was the MMCX jack got a bit loose, which is a pity.



Does that site have an English version, never dealt with them and exactly how much is 598 Yen without me logging into an currency converter site!


----------



## Zerohour88

toddy0191 said:


> Recessed / distant, not sure if these terms are interchangeable, but I feel this is how the the larger soundtage of the ZS10 is created.
> 
> One of the frustrating things about this hobby is how subjective people's opions are, based upon our own tastes, music preference and general hearing / anatomy.  Because of this people argue over things that are irrelelvant to each of the indivduals involved, when,  like you say "it is what it is!"
> 
> ...



KZ has made people realize that you don't need to pay obscene amount of money for multi-drivers and subversively that cramming multiple drivers into an IEM isn't gonna make it better (though I kinda learnt that first from Dita Answer)

I just like checking up on new models they come out with to see how far these crazy productive makers have gone. Even if each model isn't as mind-blowing as its supposed to be ("BUT ITS A 4+1 HYBRID, IT SHOULD SOUND AMAZING!!"), as long as they improve upon each iteration while providing good value and only stumble a few times (cough*ED12*cough), it should be good enough.

as someone has pointed out, there's lots of other brands and models out there at various price brackets, we're more spoiled for choice now than ever


----------



## loomisjohnson

Zerohour88 said:


> if you're going to compare the **** UES with the UE900S, can you also compare it to the EMI-CI880/Estron C630? tested the UE900S and owned the EMI (and liked it very much), so quite interested in your opinion
> 
> might order it along with the Rose North Forest


the emi is a completely different animal--brighter, more energetic/juiced  and more treble emphasized; bass also has more impact and it's more of a party piece. the ues is neutral/balanced and tuned more for accuracy and absence of coloration.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Recessed / distant, not sure if these terms are interchangeable, but I feel this is how the the larger soundtage of the ZS10 is created.
> 
> One of the frustrating things about this hobby is how subjective people's opions are, based upon our own tastes, music preference and general hearing / anatomy.  Because of this people argue over things that are irrelelvant to each of the indivduals involved, when,  like you say "it is what it is!"


Opinion is interpretation and by default subjective. Analysis is observation and is objective. Both need to be separated. Competent reviewers do that.
If this is done properly, you know an iem can for you even if the reviewer personally does not like it.

One of my favourites is the Focal Sphear. To me they are ear candy albeit I couldn't say they are technically outstanding. The discontinued Fostex TE-02 are praised by critics because of their natural tuning but may be perceived as sterile and boring by many. Although I only use the Fostex occasionally I hold them in very high regards.


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> Does that site have an English version, never dealt with them and exactly how much is 598 Yen without me logging into an currency converter site!



should be around a 90 usd? I usually just use an agent or one of those buyer sites like ezbuy or superbuy


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Recessed / distant, not sure if these terms are interchangeable, but I feel this is how the the larger soundtage of the ZS10 is created.



Recessed refers to the shape of FR curve ("V") and distant to the sonic result of the recession imo.


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> the emi is a completely different animal--brighter, more energetic/juiced  and more treble emphasized; bass also has more impact and it's more of a party piece. the ues is neutral/balanced and tuned more for accuracy and absence of coloration.



now that's interesting, tried both the UE900S and also the UERR (damn that thing is flat-sounding), I might like to have something neutral for A/B-ing tracks, thanks for the reply


----------



## Podster

weedophile said:


> I think what @snip3r77 is trying to say is not criticising KZ, but its just the hype that surrounds their latest IEM whenever a new one is released. Same goes for their motto which is something along the line of u will get one IEM from us which u like, eventually.
> 
> So it pretty sums up what KZ is trying to do, its either hit or miss for some of us. Like the ZS6 is always mentioned for piercing trebles, or the ZS3 being too bassy for some. They dont really have a "mainstream IEM" that satisfy all of us. So every new product is like a clinical trial and we are their lab rats lol, just that if its cheap, we will just say "**** it" and move on
> 
> ...



Well I took the first pair last pair comment as pretty succinct! Hit or miss mixed with individual subjectivity covers a lot of ground IMO? The good thing about KZ hype is none of them really cost that much to try, with so many different opinions of how this one or that one sounds hype is in the ear of the beholder and always something to be taken with a grain of salt until you yourself have tried it. I happen to love both my ZST's (Carbon and Colorful) and yes they are awesome with my V2/Fi combo, recently bought a balanced SP cable and once again in this old man's opinion this setup can challenge many of the rigs I have costing 4 times as much!


----------



## snip3r77

weedophile said:


> I think what @snip3r77 is trying to say is not criticising KZ, but its just the hype that surrounds their latest IEM whenever a new one is released. Same goes for their motto which is something along the line of u will get one IEM from us which u like, eventually.
> 
> So it pretty sums up what KZ is trying to do, its either hit or miss for some of us. Like the ZS6 is always mentioned for piercing trebles, or the ZS3 being too bassy for some. They dont really have a "mainstream IEM" that satisfy all of us. So every new product is like a clinical trial and we are their lab rats lol, just that if its cheap, we will just say "**** it" and move on
> 
> ...



Thanks for the support 

BTW, niceHCK finally shipped the T2


----------



## snip3r77

Podster said:


> Well I took the first pair last pair comment as pretty succinct! Hit or miss mixed with individual subjectivity covers a lot of ground IMO? The good thing about KZ hype is none of them really cost that much to try, with so many different opinions of how this one or that one sounds hype is in the ear of the beholder and always something to be taken with a grain of salt until you yourself have tried it. I happen to love both my ZST's (Carbon and Colorful) and yes they are awesome with my V2/Fi combo, recently bought a balanced SP cable and once again in this old man's opinion this setup can challenge many of the rigs I have costing 4 times as much!



I would like to caution this "cheap" and you can afford to try.

Imagine what you can buy if you skip being a clinical rat. You can buy something of a better quality and of course better SQ.


----------



## paulindss (Apr 20, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Opinion is interpretation and by default subjective. Analysis is observation and is objective. Both need to be separated.



I understood what you mean. But i want to share something. I don't believe in plain objectivity in any kind of human observation as well as the process of sharing information. It's like journalism and human sciences. The observer Will never reach neutrality. It's Just How our mind Works, subjectivity is part of the game, and the best we can do to be ethic is assume that. And try to read what is under the line. Now, Thinking of sound. When someone says a something "objective" as fast Bass, they are dealing with a concept conceived in different experiences and informations. What you mean is'nt exaclty what other's read. This is specially true when people - like me. Without proper knowledge in sound try to give a small description of our experiences. And, we are the vast majority.
Or course. Describing the sound is way better objetive than saiyng. "Awesome", "Fun". But subjectivity plays way bigger role than objetivity here. In my point of view.


----------



## toddy0191 (Apr 20, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Recessed refers to the shape of FR curve and distant to the sonic result of the recession imo.



Aha! Analysis (FR curve) and opinion (the sonic result as interpreted by the listener)!

I totally get what your saying,  and agree about needing to separate the science and the subjectivity when making decisions.

It would be a boring world  if we all agreed and personally, II think KZ are doing a sterling job.

@Podster  I had a listen to the ZST again the other day and land completely agree that it's still a great IEM., along with the ZS5 v1, Zs6, EDR1, ED15 and now ZS10.

It apears that I'm a card carrying KZ fan boy!


----------



## Otto Motor

paulindss said:


> I understood what you mean. But i don't believe in plain objectivity in any kind of human observation as well as the process of sharing information. It's like journalism and human sciences. The observer Will never reach neutrality. It's Just How our mind Works, subjectivity is part of the game, and the best we can do to be ethic is assume that. And try to read what is under the line. Now, Thinking of sound. When someone says a something "objective" as fast Bass, they are dealing with a concept conceived in different experiences and informations. What you mean is'nt exaclty what other's read. This is specially true when people - like me without proper knowledge in sound try to give a small description of our experiences. And, we are the vast majority.
> Or course. Describing the sound is way better objetive than saiyng. "Awesome", "Fun". But subjectivity plays way bigger role than objetivity. In my point of view.



What you are saying is that we try but nevertheless fail to be completely objective. Sure! What will help us here is understanding the preferences of the reviewer. For example, Vidal at aproar likes bright signatures and is sensitive to bass.

But: read any review on headflux.de where they go on about "peaks at 4K", purely descriptive stuff  from measurements serving geeks. Now that's not only objective but it also helps one falling asleep.


----------



## Podster (Apr 20, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> I would like to caution this "cheap" and you can afford to try.
> 
> Imagine what you can buy if you skip being a clinical rat. You can buy something of a better quality and of course better SQ.



I knew that you would want to make this some sort of challenge of which I have no time! This hobby is really based on what one can afford and as we all hear them all differently I won't try to go back and fourth with you. Of course one can literally spend thousands upon thousands in this hobby and inch their way up the scale. You can direct others to some of your choices but they may sound no better to someone else than the KZ's. I've had a high end rig since I was 10 years old when my older brother sent me his outgoing system from Germany in 1968 (Grundig Short Wave Stereo with a DIN to a Dual 1200 series table) it nor my current rig (see photo) may sound very good to any other person but the main thing is that I like them and it is about individual choice based on what sounds good to that individual. I have to say for you to come in here where a whole lot of people like a whole bunch of different KZ iem's and suggest they are cheap and not worthy is just another persons opinion which I stated you were entitled too but let everyone be their own judge especially when budget matters and it's a $5 pair of iem's or even $20 for that matter 






This system is driving B&W Nautilus 804's if that matters


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Aha! Analysis (FR curve) and opinion (the sonic result as interpreted by the listener)!



Distance is also objective. If one hears a voice distant, than everybody else does, too (when ruling out the variables: fit, eartips etc.). You can test this distance by comparing to a naturally tuned earphone you know very well. My benchmark is the UE900S.

Interpretation/opinion would be to find the distant voices "awesome" or not.

Several head fiers have reported the voices as distant in the ZS10. Unless there is a technical problem, this is real. You certainly will not get anybody reporting forward voices.

P.S. I am aware that mids comprises more than voices.


----------



## Podster (Apr 20, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> should be around a 90 usd? I usually just use an agent or one of those buyer sites like ezbuy or superbuy



For $90 I would expect it to be non-tarning (if that's even a word)! I've not paid over $38 for a silver plate clear sheath cable and for sub $50 iem's I probably won't but as I have been recently reminded one can get better quality should one shell out more $$$! I do however appreciate your input

@toddy0191 , I'm only a Fan Boy for KZ in the fact that they offer a lot for a little in the grand scheme of this hobby. I can't see putting ZH88's $90 cable on my ZS6 but I can sure see one on my Mee P-1 or maybe my A4's however they have a pretty sweet $71 SP cable on them already IMO at least






@snip3r77 , just wanted to remind you that it is you who uses the word "Cheap" and not I as I consider KZ to be economical for those on a lower budget. I understand your point of getting more for a little more but once again what if someone buys that higher priced considered by you a better, more well built iem and then that person does not hear them like you and still likes their KZ more (subjectivity) and then they are actually out more money than buying those "Cheap" KZ's Just sayin'


----------



## willjie90

Otto Motor said:


> Opinion is interpretation and by default subjective. Analysis is observation and is objective. Both need to be separated. Competent reviewers do that.
> If this is done properly, you know an iem can for you even if the reviewer personally does not like it.



I totally agree with this as well. But as you know in this hobby people tend to be more subjective rather than objective, which indeed make it more interesting. 
The best way for me is to know our own subjective preference and to understand the analytical points of that subjective preference. Competent reviewers helps with their critical analysis for us to decide whether the iem is suitable for us.


----------



## toddy0191

Otto Motor said:


> Distance is also objective. If one hears a voice distant, than everybody else does, too (when ruling out the variables: fit, eartips etc.). You can test this distance by comparing to a naturally tuned earphone you know very well. My benchmark is the UE900S.
> 
> Interpretation/opinion would be to find the distant voices "awesome" or not.
> 
> ...



True, although i'm of the opinion that anything that can 't be physically measured / quantified is subjective. 

@Podster I was referring to me as the fan boy, but you're right, it's only because they offer a lot for cheap. I


If it wasn't for the boss, I'd spend A LOT more money on this hobby. As it stands I like having a house to live in...


----------



## Podster

toddy0191 said:


> True, although i'm of the opinion that anything that can 't be physically measured / quantified is subjective.
> 
> @Podster I was referring to me as the fan boy, but you're right, it's only because they offer a lot for cheap. I
> 
> ...



You know that's right, I just refer to her as the higher power. Mine actually turns 47 today! After 20 years with her and never buying what she wants or likes I thank whoever came up with the idea of the gift card as one can almost never go wrong (almost you know like that 99.9% of the population that think better sounding music is just a bunch of bunk) Sorry for straying gentlemen


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> For $90 I would expect it to be non-tarning (if that's even a word)! I've not paid over $38 for a silver plate clear sheath cable and for sub $50 iem's I probably won't but as I have been recently reminded one can get better quality should one shell out more $$$! I do however appreciate your input



haha, just a passing remark since I happened to be in the thread and was actually thinking of re-wiring the cables to balanced while repairing/replacing the MMCX. Friend of mine usually use the Litz cable from ALO for his IEMs like the Lyra II and its definitely the better choice at 149 usd. Still, the MMCX being loose while the Litz is a bit older is kinda weird

honestly, any complaints on QC about chi-fi is moot point for me, the Dita Answer had to be sent back a couple of times for cable/filter repairs and the CA Lyra II nozzle somehow disconnected from the body since it seems CA used some cheapo glue to put it together


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> haha, just a passing remark since I happened to be in the thread and was actually thinking of re-wiring the cables to balanced while repairing/replacing the MMCX. Friend of mine usually use the Litz cable from ALO for his IEMs like the Lyra II and its definitely the better choice at 149 usd. Still, the MMCX being loose while the Litz is a bit older is kinda weird
> 
> honestly, any complaints on QC about chi-fi is moot point for me, the Dita Answer had to be sent back a couple of times for cable/filter repairs and the CA Lyra II nozzle somehow disconnected from the body since it seems CA used some cheapo glue to put it together



So it seems the same issues that sometime plague KZ can also be found with the higher end guys like DITA and CA Costly hobby for the rich and the poor Don't even want to talk about what it cost to send home gear back to say BAT


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Funky ZS10 with a bit of PCB floating around inside... oh well it doesn't affect the sound.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> You know that's right, I just refer to her as the higher power. Mine actually turns 47 today! After 20 years with her and never buying what she wants or likes I thank whoever came up with the idea of the gift card as one can almost never go wrong (almost you know like that 99.9% of the population that think better sounding music is just a bunch of bunk) Sorry for straying gentlemen



Happy Birthday to the Mrs., Pod!


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Happy Birthday to the Mrs., Pod!




THX @DocHoliday , going to Sam's to pick up her cake in just a few

@Oscar-HiFi , not even a little rattle when your jogging


----------



## Otto Motor

*Cable Schmable Part 373: KZ's Rare 3-Button Remote 
*
My ZS5 v1 came with a three-button remote (June 2017) that works with my iPhone. Apparently, the remotes of later KS5 and all following KZ models have only one button.

Who has a KZ 3-button remote and which model did it come with?


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 20, 2018)

Podster said:


> THX @DocHoliday , going to Sam's to pick up her cake in just a few
> 
> @Oscar-HiFi , not even a little rattle when your jogging



We'll I can't sing much but, to Mrs. Pod, here ya go!


Spoiler


----------



## BattlePope

This got buried so I'll try again. Hopefully nobody minds.

Recently got a pair of ZS3's and really like them so far. One of the cables it came with was kinda ripped though so it doesn't stay in my ear nearly as well as the other (undamaged) cord. Figure I might as well get a cord replacement to remedy this. Was going to get the standard silver cable that everyone recommends (these, right?) but was wondering...is there a good Bluetooth cable alternative? I've seen them on Amazon but was curious if they're any good. Silver cable or Bluetooth? Interested in the Bluetooth for general convenience and running.

I'm also wondering if the ZS3's aren't staying in as well due to the poor fit of the ear tips. Tried all 3 sizes that came with the ZS3's and (with virtually all of them) I'll get a great fit initially but then they slowly pop out a bit resulting in a noticeable difference in sound. This is my first pair of quality IEMs and as such don't have any other ear tips I can try out. I know it's hard to make a recommendation and that probably trial-and-error is the best way for me to find a tip that fits me well but...can anyone recommend an ear tip that typically provides a pretty good fit (for most users) that won't break the bank?


----------



## Zlivan

Otto Motor said:


> *Cable Schmable Part 373: KZ's Rare 3-Button Remote
> *
> My ZS5 v1 came with a three-button remote (June 2017) that works with my iPhone. Apparently, the remotes of later KS5 and all following KZ models have only one button.
> 
> Who has a KZ 3-button remote and which model did it come with?


I have it. From ZS5 fancy box.
The fact that no other model has it really annoys me, since I mostly listen to them on the go and I don't want to get my phone out of the pocket to control it.

Bought another 2-pin cable with three buttons recently, better than KZ one.


----------



## maxxevv

T400 foam off Aliexpress.  Of the appropriate size of course.


----------



## WalterTorino

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 after 50 hrs of break in...
> *
> Still the same: the ZS10 sounds like a more refined ZSR with relatively unfocused bass and more recessed mids (with the iPhone 5S; bass tightens a bit when adding the audioquest dragonfly dac/amp). In comparison, the bass of the Focal Sphear and Fidue A65 is cleaner and more subtle with more present mids.
> 
> While people are  jumping off the bandwagon, the ED15 hype train was delayed and is reaching town two days late [please forgive these silly puns].]


Waiting the hype train of the ed15 like Harry Potter waiting the Hogwarts Express


----------



## Makahl

BattlePope said:


> This got buried so I'll try again. Hopefully nobody minds.
> Recently got a pair of ZS3's and really like them so far. One of the cables it came with was kinda ripped though so it doesn't stay in my ear nearly as well as the other (undamaged) cord. Figure I might as well get a cord replacement to remedy this. Was going to get the standard silver cable that everyone recommends (these, right?)



I can say the TRN V10 is a better option and definitely an upgrade compared to the stock cable. This cable hasn't memory wire so you don't need to play against it to get good position. Also the quality of connectors, cable are better. 



> but was wondering...is there a good Bluetooth cable alternative? I've seen them on Amazon but was curious if they're any good. Silver cable or Bluetooth? Interested in the Bluetooth for general convenience and running.



I'd pick up the TRN V10 cable and Xiaomi adapter Bluetooth and you can have the best of both worlds. I kind of didn't like the result of ZS3 + KZ Bluetooth, it's weak and I can't get enough volume, but it works well on ZST. And I never tested the TRN Bluetooth which apparently is good. 



> I'm also wondering if the ZS3's aren't staying in as well due to the poor fit of the ear tips. Tried all 3 sizes that came with the ZS3's and (with virtually all of them) I'll get a great fit initially but then they slowly pop out a bit resulting in a noticeable difference in sound. This is my first pair of quality IEMs and as such don't have any other ear tips I can try out. I know it's hard to make a recommendation and that probably trial-and-error is the best way for me to find a tip that fits me well but...can anyone recommend an ear tip that typically provides a pretty good fit (for most users) that won't break the bank?



Trying to fit them shallow over deep helps me. I've been struggling to find other tips to ZS3 too since it hasn't nozzle lip so you either need to find a tight tip or create a lip to solve this issue. But maybe others users have found good tips.


----------



## C2thew (Apr 20, 2018)

The TRN bluetooth 4.2 cable at ~$22 is very good paired with my ZS3 and will make your ears bleed at max volume.  

I'm actually curious with the xiaomi bluetooth adapter as you could use other headphones or even a computer speaker for that matter without being locked into the KZ eco system.  The only downside is that you have to keep your long headphone cables on your body attached to the bluetooth so comfort wise the TRN bluetooth cable would have that advantage since it's all built in.

External usability though, the xiaomi would be pretty interesting.


----------



## Otto Motor

Zlivan said:


> Bought another 2-pin cable with three buttons recently, better than KZ one.



Which cable did you get?

I "upgraded" to a cable that will change colour to green and is devoid of "useless" ballast such as mic and buttons. But it looks kool and KZ made a few more bucks on me!


----------



## Zlivan (Apr 20, 2018)

http://s.aliexpress.com/7VbYF7Fr

This one. It doesn't look like much but it's not sticky as KZ cable, no memory wires also and no microphonics. We'll see how long it lasts.

I think that particular seller has a couple of other types as well, all of them with remote.


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> The vent hole next to the strain relief is a bass vent, and will not serve a pressure relieving function.
> 
> If you have a micro drill bit set, you could add a tiny pressure vent on the front side of the IEM. Something like 0.2 mm should be enough to vent pressure yet not affect bass. You would just have to be very careful not to damage the driver (although if you do, you're only out a few dollars).
> 
> ...



I don't have the EDR1, but do have the EDR2. 
How do these two compare?


----------



## weedophile

snip3r77 said:


> Thanks for the support
> 
> BTW, niceHCK finally shipped the T2


Mine in SG liao, ordered from WE


----------



## youngarthur

Ali EX., immediate refund for ZS10, never sent. Reordered from KZ store, and in transit, within 24 hours.


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> You know that's right, I just refer to her as the higher power. Mine actually turns 47 today! After 20 years with her and never buying what she wants or likes I thank whoever came up with the idea of the gift card as one can almost never go wrong (almost you know like that 99.9% of the population that think better sounding music is just a bunch of bunk) Sorry for straying gentlemen


Just for the Mrs…


Spoiler


----------



## rayliam80

My green KZ ZS6 from NiceHCK arrived yesterday. I finally have the mint chocolate IEMs I've always wanted


----------



## bsoplinger

Hmm, perhaps I should stick that white braided cable on my new green ZS6. Its that one that's really soft and braided with 4 individual strands but turns green within 2 months. It'll match the IEMs


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> Hmm, perhaps I should stick that white braided cable on my new green ZS6. Its that one that's really soft and braided with 4 individual strands but turns green within 2 months. It'll match the IEMs



LOL, THX for the BD wish/song as I'm sure she will get a kick out of it When I first opened it I thought it was going to be one from Ted and thinking how colorful it may have been


----------



## FastAndClean

i pulled the trigger on the ZS10, i hope that the bass is at least tight not bloated


----------



## manukmanohar

My order for ZS10 is still stuck. Hopefully will receive it soon.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

*ED15 Hype Train Has Arrived In Western Canada

Haptic: *Heavy, feels a bit like the GR (but not quite as heavy). Same cable as ZS10 but not detachable. Strain reliefs at earpieces look basic. Standard starline tips.

*Looks*: Shaped like a Klingon cruiser/1960s hair dryer (retro look). Silver (chrome) is shinier than the matte on the photos.

*Sound:* I am going cycling now. Will try them later.

*Photos enlarge when you click on them!

*


----------



## WildSeven

Otto Motor said:


> *ED15 Hype Train Has Arrived In Western Canada
> 
> Haptic: *Heavy, feels a bit like the GR (but not quite as heavy). Same cable as ZS10 but not detachable. Strain reliefs at earpieces look basic.
> 
> ...


Is the finishing chromed or polished metal?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

*ED15 vs. EDR1: Looks and Dimensions
*
The ED15's nozzle is thicker than the EDR1's but the starline tips are the same...this required a bit of fiddling to get them onto the ED15 correctly. At least as heavy than the EDR1.


*





 







 *


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 20, 2018)

WildSeven said:


> Is the finishing chromed or polished metal?


Chrome...nothing polished! Doesn't look as good as on the pictures!


----------



## Nikostr8

rocking right now the newcoming ZSR + TRN bluetooth cable ,  im really glad with this purchase.

Im a bit scared tho with the trn bt cable, since its looks so fragile.


----------



## WildSeven

Nikostr8 said:


> rocking right now the newcoming ZSR + TRN bluetooth cable ,  im really glad with this purchase.
> 
> Im a bit scared tho with the trn bt cable, since its looks so fragile.


Did you get the aptx version or the regular 4.2? How's the sound and reception?


----------



## Nikostr8

WildSeven said:


> Did you get the aptx version or the regular 4.2? How's the sound and reception?


regular 4.2 version , paired with my Shanling M2s without problems. pretty fast.

Reception is rly good and the sound is okay too , have to compare it against wired earphone though,


----------



## mrmoto050

Wow, I had a suprise from China Post. Just received my pre-ordered ZS10's Red.


----------



## friuns

mrmoto050 said:


> Wow, I had a suprise from China Post. Just received my pre-ordered ZS10's Red.


so are they best?


----------



## HungryPanda

Looks like my ZS10's are in the country and on the way to my local post office


----------



## snip3r77

weedophile said:


> Mine in SG liao, ordered from WE


T2 kym???


----------



## MDH12AX7

My new toys from China are Taking  longer to get from Chicago to Oklahoma than it took to reach the US from China. What is up with USPS? Tracking is not updating either.... I guess President Trump is shaking things up.


----------



## weedophile

snip3r77 said:


> T2 kym???


Think need to wait till next week xD


----------



## TLDRonin

KZ ZS10s have arrived.


----------



## maxxevv (Apr 20, 2018)

Put the T2 and ZS10 on a couple of hours of pink noise burn-in and had an A/B session using a range of tracks from acoustic guitars, to violin concertos to full symphony orchestras, through male vocals, to Adele , The Corrs, U2, to Deep Dish to Sarah Maclachlan.  Compared some tracks with the ZS6 for good measure.

For solo, less ambient and low bass tracks, the T2 stands on its own. Excellent clarity and puts vocals front center.  The ZS10 has a lower energy level for vocals but it isn't obvious for these kind tracks. ZS6 by contrast has better levels for vocals here.

However, there was sibilance in all 3 earphones at certain instances. The ZS6 being very obvious, without the need to be even listening for it to notice it. The T2, only if you are listening out for it. So its pretty minor. The ZS10, has to listen specifically to detect the same sibilance instances.  For people who listen intently to vocal tracks, sibilance can be quite a bummer.

I'm not sure its because the T2's have only had a few hours of burn-in or is it a defective set but certain male vocals and segments of female vocals somehow sound 'nasal' ..? Adel and Sarah Maclachlan definitely sounded off. Especially if compared to my HD6XX. 

Nothing of the sort for both the KZ's.

For tracks with more "energy", the ZS6 and ZS10 pull ahead of the T2. The bass is definitely punchier in both compared to the T2. 

There is definitely a treble roll-off in the ZS10. Makes for a detailed but yet polite sound signature. Not the kind of shouty, in-your-face kind of rendering that's present in the ZS6 at times. Dvorak's Symphony 9 and Tcaikovsky's Violin Concerto didn't lose any details as far as I can tell but they were definitely easier on the ears compared to the ZS6.  The T2 sounded somewhat 'thin' here. Likely due to the elevated bass in both the KZ's. 

Fit wise, the ZS10 fitted better than the T2, which felt like it was dropping out a few times, even with large tips used.  But I still had to use a large eartip to get a good seal compared to an M using the ZS6. 
Had to check if the bass difference was due to sealing, but apparently it wasn't, even if I pressed the T2 inwards, the bass improvement wasn't there. 

So, in summary, if you want a more 'polite' sounding signature compared to the ZS6 with all the bass energy and details, the ZS10 fits that. Its a little 'warmer' too.  And none of the obvious sibilance found on the ZS6. (ZS10 still has a very tiny little bit, but by most counts, its non-existent.) 

But due to the elevated bass, the mids / vocals can sound a little recessed. It may be compounded sound stage of the ZS10 being wide and a little extended in depth. (whichever came first as the recessed mids do make the stage sound 'deeper' too) 

However, noticed that a little extra power pushing with a dedicated amp, makes the recessed mids effect less obvious.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 20, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> KZ ZS10s have arrived.



If you want a very clean cut at the base of your cable connectors then it's best to gently use a two inch blade for the clean cut. Just be careful to cut ONLY the sheathing that holds the metal wire.  Be sure to remove the wire "before" making the final cut at the base of the connectors. 

1. Remove metal wire (as if pulling string cheese) from sheathing. 
2. Use 2" blade to gently cut sheathing at base of connectors.
3. Discard sheathing and metal wire.
4. Properly attach your cables to the IEMs.
5. Use silicone earhooks for wires to maintain a secure fit over the ear.
6. Enjoy your new IEMs.


----------



## Otto Motor

maxxevv said:


> But due to the elevated bass, the mids / vocals can sound a little recessed. It may be compounded sound stage of the ZS10 being wide and a little extended in depth. (whichever came first as the recessed mids do make the stage sound 'deeper' too)
> 
> However, noticed that a little extra power pushing with a dedicated amp, makes the recessed mids effect less obvious.


Yes, the mids migrate a bit forward when the bass is tighter with an amp.


----------



## TLDRonin (Apr 20, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> If you want a very clean cut at the base of your cable connectors then it's best to gently use a two inch blade for the clean cut. Just be careful to cut ONLY the sheathing that holds the metal wire.  Be sure to remove the wire "before" making the final cut at the base of the connectors.
> 
> 1. Remove metal wire (as if pulling string cheese) from sheathing.
> 2. Use 2" blade to gently cut sheathing at base of connectors.
> ...


Yup, I'll eventually cut the remaining wire stubs. Just wanted to get the memory wire off asap and listen to them


----------



## RolledOff

Since ZS5v1 seems universally loved and people need to pry it out of someone dead hands to get one, why KZ couldn't produce more of it?
Driver supply problem?


----------



## Bartig

loomisjohnson said:


> the emi is a completely different animal--brighter, more energetic/juiced  and more treble emphasized; bass also has more impact and it's more of a party piece. the ues is neutral/balanced and tuned more for accuracy and absence of coloration.


I found the bass of the EMI anything but a party piece. Have you closed a vent maybe?



maxxevv said:


> Put the T2 and ZS10 on a couple of hours of pink noise burn-in and had an A/B session using a range of tracks from acoustic guitars, to violin concertos to full symphony orchestras, through male vocals, to Adele , The Corrs, U2, to Deep Dish to Sarah Maclachlan.  Compared some tracks with the ZS6 for good measure.
> 
> For solo, less ambient and low bass tracks, the T2 stands on its own. Excellent clarity and puts vocals front center.  The ZS10 has a lower energy level for vocals but it isn't obvious for these kind tracks. ZS6 by contrast has better levels for vocals here.
> 
> ...


Excellent comparison. The T2 probably won’t be for me, but I won’t cancel my order.


----------



## bsoplinger

MDH12AX7 said:


> My new toys from China are Taking  longer to get from Chicago to Oklahoma than it took to reach the US from China. What is up with USPS? Tracking is not updating either.... I guess President Trump is shaking things up.


I too am seeing a delay on my purchase getting shipped out of IL although not specifically Chicago. I'm guessing that its a symptom of some sort of systemic problem in that part of the country. A late bit of snow and winter weather perhaps?


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 21, 2018)

RolledOff said:


> Since ZS5v1 seems universally loved and people need to pry it out of someone dead hands to get one, why KZ couldn't produce more of it?
> Driver supply problem?



The ZS5(i) is not universally loved. 

Some like it.

Some love it.

Some don't care for it.

When I received my first pair I liked them but was initially underwhelmed due to the recessed midrange. After tip-rolling, coupling them to my DAP (Fiio X3) and giving the ZS5(i) some volume I found out just how good they are. To my ears they are my first IEM that sounds similar to a full-size headphone set.




 


 


 



RolledOff said:


> .....why KZ couldn't produce more of it?



Only KZ can answer that question. I don't have the ZS10 yet but I'm wondering if this was KZ's attempt to offer something similar to the ZS5(i) sound signature in a new model. KZ watches this thread and they know that the faithful are unhappy, for the most part, that the ZS5 was retuned.

......just trying to make sense of the reported observations of the ZS10:

- wide soundstage 
- recessed midrange 
- slightly warm/dark signature
- great resolution.

Just conjecture on my part based on early impressions so it's best to order a pair and discover for one's self.

Hopefully, there'll be a review or two pop up before long.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs10-in-ear-monitor.23011/


----------



## Strat Rider

sino8r said:


> Yeah, screw that. Just open them with the torx and glue very carefully.



I have a similar issue withone pair of my zs6.
I change cables frequently since I use these daily at work, and change and charge kz Bluetooth cables. 

In my case I never even considered trying to glue the connector. 

In my experience, sound isn't compromised, so why do it. 

I have also covered one ba in one of my pair, I like the change and will leave it as is. But if you don't know what you want why permanently disable with superglue. 

I used poster tack, at least if I wanted to reverse it it's clean and easy.

My unmodified pair is currently being used for gaming, so piercing highs are not an issue.


----------



## Slater (Apr 21, 2018)

RolledOff said:


> Since ZS5v1 seems universally loved and people need to pry it out of someone dead hands to get one, why KZ couldn't produce more of it?
> Driver supply problem?



Because people complained about it when it 1st came out.

I think the reasons were as follows:

1. There was confusion on the orientation of the plugs, so some people inadvertently had them plugged in out-of-phase (and thus sounding like crap). This is one of the main things that prompted me to add the How2 in my signature.
2. Some "reviewers" claimed some of the drivers inside were "fake" and not connected (falsely based on what I believe was a disassembly photo where the wires had accidentally ripped off of the BA driver during disassembly). This was a totally false idea (ie “fake drivers”), and these self-proclaimed experts were speaking out of total ignorance.
3. Many of the people/reviewers complaining of the poor sound were likely running them from their cell phones. ZS5 v1 are very low impedance, and have source matching issues. When they have good synergy with a source, however, they sound great. When paired with a poor or mismatched source, not so hot.

As a knee-jerk reaction to the wave of “fake driver” hysteria, KZ overreacted, and gave us the ZS5 v2 quite shortly after the ZS5 v1. They rewired them with a higher impedance, and changed the BA model configuration (2) 30095 ultra-high frequency BAs (moving them both into the nozzle). The result was a treble cannon (which people disliked even more). One positive change was the v2 being easier to drive from most sources, though.

To make matters worse, there was no way to tell the v1 and v2 apart (without careful examination of the nozzle). So this made it very difficult, if not impossible, for people to buy the v1 (because sellers had no way to tell them apart).

By this point, the damage was done. The whole ZS5 lineup was seen as a botched-up step backwards in most people's opinion (ie the REAL people that mattered; not the stupid YouTube reviewers).

And with the imminent release of the ZS6, the ZS5 kind of fell by the wayside and withered away.

There are fans that understand and appreciate how good to ZS5 v1 can sound (when properly source-matched), and so ZS5 v1s are worth their weight in gold because they are so “rare”.

If I missed anything anyone, feel free to add your $0.02.


----------



## Strat Rider

Podster said:


> I have found if you tip your head/opposite ear to those gawking the letters are right side up Mine annoy me as well but not enough to ruin that sweet glossy finish, you could always tell people the stamper does it while standing on his/her head



I have heard that we EAT with our eyes first, but listen.. .  
of course, I only listen to them in a dark room where no one else can see me, to try and read the printing.


----------



## Otto Motor

To point 2: the fake driver story was reported in this video...


That guy also claimed some VE earbud was better than the Sennheiser HD600.


----------



## TLDRonin

First impressions with the ZS10:

I'm quite satisfied with the bass on the ZS-10. I suppose bass heads would want more, but for my tastes they are fine.


The treble on the other hand, was a little disappointing. Seems like KZ can't find a healthy medium between too much and too little treble. Because of the treble rolloff starting at 4k, things like female vocals and cymbals sounded a bit off. 


While some seem to really dislike it, I EQ my IEMs and headphones. Boosting 4-5k and ~10k helped alot and added a more "airy" feeling. A touch at ~600 added a little more body to the somewhat recessed vocals. Mind you, my sound signature leans toward forward mids. I will continue messing around with EQ APO to find my perfect balance.


The cable it came with is nice. Almost no microphonics, feels nice, and looks great. It would be great if KZ could make this the default cable. I have yet to use them in a very noisy environment, but I have a feeling these will isolate very well. Can't wait to use them on my next bus ride!


----------



## TLDRonin

Otto Motor said:


> To point 2: the fake driver story was reported in this video...
> 
> 
> That guy also claimed some VE earbud was better than the Sennheiser HD600.



Don't want to hate circlejerk, but according to a guy on reddit, he also hosted a giveaway, and hasn't been heard from since. The last trace of activity from him was trying to sell some cans on canuck audio


----------



## Strat Rider

stimuz said:


> I haven't run into chifi IEMs yet that I would consider just better than 6XX but I have had quite a few that excel in certain areas over 6XX. I was super unimpressed by Piston 3s which was my last chifi IEMs, picked up a pair when I was late to the Piston 2 party. I was very unimpressed by them, gave them away in fact. Did the same with Rock Zircons this round on IEMs, the only thing I liked about rocks were how easy they were to insert.



I also liked the tips of the zircon.


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> Because people complained about it when it 1st came out.
> 
> 3. Many complained that they sounded poor, likely because they ran them from their cell phone. ZS5 v1 are very low impedance, and have source matching issues. When they have good synergy with a source, they sound awesome. When paired with a poor source, they sound poor.


And that's why....


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> First impressions with the ZS10:
> 
> I'm quite satisfied with the bass on the ZS-10. I suppose bass heads would want more, but for my tastes they are fine.
> 
> ...


"Audiophiles" (= purists) would claim there is more than enough of bass. But is the bass tight enough for your liking?


----------



## RolledOff

DocHoliday said:


> The ZS5(i) is not universally loved.
> 
> Some like it.
> 
> ...


Well, many in this thread are waiting for someone to sell his/her ZS5v1
KZ knows how to create ZS5v1, but all we have now is ZS5v2... are the drivers different ? or just the placement of BAs in the nozzle that made the difference?
I don't have the ZS10 yet, but from what i read of the early reviews, it doesn't have the same praise as ZS5v1  



Slater said:


> Because people complained about it when it 1st came out.
> 
> I think the reasons were as follows:
> 
> ...



if KZ was so quick to react to the 'fake' youtube and give us the ZS5v2 as the result, I hope they react just as quickly to real people reactions and give us the ZS5v1 back


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> And that's why....



To be pedantic, flat impedance is not necessarily due to single driver. It is due to several factors including the driver and the enclosure. For example, Sennheiser HD650(300-500 ohms),  Koss KSC75(60-140 ohms) are single driver, but their impedance varies a lot and it is mostly due to resonance inside the enclosure.

In general, when the output impedance goes up, the resonance at particular frequencies inside the earphone enclosure gets sustained or amplified and the resonance is usually below 100Hz which results in boomy bass.


----------



## maxxevv

Delete


----------



## Slater (Apr 21, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Don't want to hate circlejerk, but according to a guy on reddit, he also hosted a giveaway, and hasn't been heard from since. The last trace of activity from him was trying to sell some cans on canuck audio



I don’t want to sound like a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist, but marketing sabotage by competitors happens a lot more than people are aware.

Fiverr, the site that caused the huge Amazon fake review crackdown, would pay “for hire reviewers” on Amazon, YouTube, Google, Yelp, and many other review sites. They were hired and paid by sellers/companies wanting to boost their positive reviews, as well as by competitors to bad mouth their competition by paying for negative reviews.

Many companies and shady practices were exposed by the scandal that resulted from Fiverr.

The headphone market is very cut throat. I personally know of specific cases where individual reviewers were paid hundreds of dollars (and more) for very specific reviews (positive and negative). So it does happen; that’s a fact. Whether that happened in the case of the ZS5, is unknown.

I know of 1 company in particular that had a lot to gain by bad mouthing the ZS5. And there were some very suspect and shady clues surrounding that particular negative YouTube ZS5 review, which (interestingly) pointed right back at the exact same company that had a lot to gain by the ZS5 being bad mouthed. Coincidence?

The whole thing stunk of rotten apples, and it does not surprise me in the least bit that the guy has fallen off the face of the planet, back into the woodwork never to be heard from again.

If only Scooby and the gang were around to solve the mystery and expose who was really behind it...


----------



## Slater

RolledOff said:


> Well, many in this thread are waiting for someone to sell his/her ZS5v1
> KZ knows how to create ZS5v1, but all we have now is ZS5v2... are the drivers different ? or just the placement of BAs in the nozzle that made the difference?




Different BA driver placement.
1 different BA driver model.
Different internal wiring.
Different impedance.
Different sound tuning.


----------



## FastAndClean

how is the bass quality of the   KZ ZS10?


----------



## notamethlab

I was very tempted to buy the ZS10 but, I settled on the ZSR and ZS6. I've read great things about the ZSR so I'm excited to give it a listen. The ZS6 does worry me though because some have said that the treble is peaky. 

For those that have the ZS6, do you find it  sibilant or is it a small peak? I listen to Travis Scott quite often and his music can get really sibilant.


----------



## maxxevv

On heavily processed vocals, the ZS6 sibilance is quite evident.  But on some recordings,  its non-existent.  

So recording/mastering dependent in my experience.


----------



## Bartig

TLDRonin said:


> First impressions with the ZS10:
> 
> I'm quite satisfied with the bass on the ZS-10. I suppose bass heads would want more, but for my tastes they are fine.
> 
> ...


I mainly use the Spotify EQ on my iPhone. What would it look like to adjust it to your settings, to get an airy sound?



FastAndClean said:


> how is the bass quality of the   KZ ZS10?


It’s ever present, not too overpowered and not very fast but a bit quicker than the ZSR. I feel that the bass of the ZSR can get thicker and deeper - but at least it doesn’t get set aside when the treble kicks in, like it does on the ZS5 v2.


----------



## toddy0191

I've just given my ZS10 the "Tusk" test.

Fleetwood Mac's Tusk for those who aren't familiar with it is a beautifully recorded and produced album with a lot of focus on vocals, acoustic and  electric guitars coupled with layered male and female backing vocals,  all with a sense of air.

One of the stand out tracks for me is Stevie Nicks' "Beautiful Child" It's a mid lovers dream with a lovely vocal from Stevie Nicks, piano, guitar (acoustic and electric) a lovely deep bass line and fabulously placed and layered backing vocals from Stevie herself and Lyndsey Buckingham and Christine McVie.

IMO the ZS10 handles this song brilliantly. They resolve the vocals and instruments really well  and the imaging  and separation is on point.  Every instrument and vocal inhabits it's own space with zero congestion.

Lovely!


----------



## notamethlab

maxxevv said:


> On heavily processed vocals, the ZS6 sibilance is quite evident.  But on some recordings,  its non-existent.
> 
> So recording/mastering dependent in my experience.



Going by what you said, it's going to be quite sibilant. He uses A LOT of auto-tune in his music. 

Have you heard anything by Pink Floyd or Muse with ZS6?


----------



## toddy0191

notamethlab said:


> Going by what you said, it's going to be quite sibilant. He uses A LOT of auto-tune in his music.
> 
> Have you heard anything by Pink Floyd or Muse with ZS6?



Floyd sound great on the Zs6 so don't worry


----------



## notamethlab

toddy0191 said:


> Floyd sound great on the Zs6 so don't worry



Awesome I'm excited to give them a listen, I haven't used KZ iems in quite some time.


----------



## toddy0191

notamethlab said:


> Awesome I'm excited to give them a listen, I haven't used KZ iems in quite some time.



I don't know how old you are but I'm not bothered by the piercing highs at 41.  I find them super resolving for the price. They also have quite nice timbre to the mids.

If you find them harsh at first,  stick with them as I came from something darker (can't remember what  exactly) and once my brain adjusted they sounded fine to me.


----------



## Fargeg

notamethlab said:


> I was very tempted to buy the ZS10 but, I settled on the ZSR and ZS6. I've read great things about the ZSR so I'm excited to give it a listen. The ZS6 does worry me though because some have said that the treble is peaky.
> 
> For those that have the ZS6, do you find it  sibilant or is it a small peak? I listen to Travis Scott quite often and his music can get really sibilant.



The ZS6 exists to be used with foam tips or Ostry tuning tips. The Ostry OS300 tips I use practically nullify the peak and make the bass hit hard. Modding it to block or muffle one pair of the BA drivers can also tame the treble, but I personally haven't had luck with that. Listening to it stock is inadvisable.


----------



## MariusAB

Fargeg said:


> The ZS6 exists to be used with foam tips or Ostry tuning tips. The Ostry OS300 tips I use practically nullify the peak and make the bass hit hard. Modding it to block or muffle one pair of the BA drivers can also tame the treble, but I personally haven't had luck with that. Listening to it stock is inadvisable.



you are right, quality foam tip should be used with them, but perhaps ostry OS200 would be better balance for KZ6, because OS300 takes too much from treble. If someone have tried these could say their opinion. I personally better modify ZS6 with foams and EQ, but not change original construction. But it's every ones decision.


----------



## toddy0191

Fargeg said:


> The ZS6 exists to be used with foam tips or Ostry tuning tips. The Ostry OS300 tips I use practically nullify the peak and make the bass hit hard. Modding it to block or muffle one pair of the BA drivers can also tame the treble, but I personally haven't had luck with that. Listening to it stock is inadvisable.



Yep totally agree with this and forgot to mention switching to foams.  I use the rounded foams from aliexpress.

Like these:

http://s.aliexpress.com/6nuYVV7J?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


----------



## KainHighwind

Just receive my KZ ZS5 and I think it is much worse than the ZST, the shape is too hard to fit comfortably into my ears, and I feel like ZS5 always has the low volume "ssssss" sound when listening, the high notes become too high and produce an even louder "sssssss" sound, such a regret because I lost my ZST and purchase the new ZS5, would have bought back the ZST instead.


----------



## HungryPanda

It's a KZ kind of day:


----------



## jeromeaparis

notamethlab said:


> I was very tempted to buy the ZS10 but, I settled on the ZSR and ZS6. I've read great things about the ZSR so I'm excited to give it a listen. The ZS6 does worry me though because some have said that the treble is peaky.
> For those that have the ZS6, do you find it  sibilant or is it a small peak? I listen to Travis Scott quite often and his music can get really sibilant.



My ZS6 was sibilant, with a bit too much trebles, even after 120 hours under pink noise, then I began burnin with white noise, after 40 hours, sibilance was very reduced, & level of trebles reduced. I do preffer the ZS6 vs the ZSR because the voices are slightly distant with the ZSR.


----------



## Bartig (Apr 21, 2018)

Is QKZ upping their game? Their new VK1 costs €18 rather than 3-10 euros, it looks seriously good and has the standard KZ packaging now.


----------



## taygomi

Is it worth upgrading from the KZ ZST to the ZS6.
I really like the ZST.


----------



## bsoplinger

Bartig said:


> Is QKZ upping their game? Their new VK1 costs €18 rather than 3-10 euros, it looks seriously good and has the standard KZ packaging now.


Dual graphine 1 Tesla dynamic driver for $19? Not sure I quite believe that it can be done for that price. And especially not while sounding good. Reviews will be interesting to see.


----------



## RvTrav

Looks like TRN V10 minus BA drivers???   Should solve the over bright treble, wonder if they worked out the recessed Mids.?


----------



## Slater (Apr 21, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Is QKZ upping their game? Their new VK1 costs €18 rather than 3-10 euros, it looks seriously good and has the standard KZ packaging now.



Some of the photos look like they have 2 BAs in the nozzle?


----------



## Otto Motor

taygomi said:


> Is it worth upgrading from the KZ ZST to the ZS6.
> I really like the ZST.


I'd go for the ZSR...which is a much better sounding ZST. The ZS6 has a totally different tonality and is only for people who can handle very strong treble.


----------



## Otto Motor

FastAndClean said:


> how is the bass quality of the   KZ ZS10?


Boomy with my iPhone and less boomy with a dedicated dac/amp. But in any case not dry.


----------



## Otto Motor

phower said:


> To be pedantic, flat impedance is not necessarily due to single driver. It is due to several factors including the driver and the enclosure. For example, Sennheiser HD650(300-500 ohms),  Koss KSC75(60-140 ohms) are single driver, but their impedance varies a lot and it is mostly due to resonance inside the enclosure.
> 
> In general, when the output impedance goes up, the resonance at particular frequencies inside the earphone enclosure gets sustained or amplified and the resonance is usually below 100Hz which results in boomy bass.



This would explain why the bass of the ZS10 is more focused with the audioquest dragonfly (0.3 ohm) and is boomier with the iPhone 5S (1 to 3 ohm, I don't know the exact number). 

Impedance profile and FR curve for the ZS10 coming soon. Stay tuned.


----------



## FastAndClean

Otto Motor said:


> Boomy with my iPhone and less boomy with a dedicated dac/amp. But in any case not dry.


i may have to play with eq to lower the mid and upper bass, so many headphones and in ears have boosted mid and upper bass, i hate that, if you boost something boost the damn sub bass for christ sake


----------



## Comebackboy

Anyone having this problem with the ZS10? Silver cable doesn't fit in fully on the right side for me. Stock cable is able to fit fully, and this silver cable fits fully on my ZS6.


----------



## FastAndClean

if i cancel my order do i get my money back or the seller may refuse?


----------



## TLDRonin

FastAndClean said:


> if i cancel my order do i get my money back or the seller may refuse?


As long as it didn't ship yet, yes


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Don't want to hate circlejerk, but according to a guy on reddit, he also hosted a giveaway, and hasn't been heard from since. The last trace of activity from him was trying to sell some cans on canuck audio


Circle jerk surely must have hatched from a Kinder Surprise Egg.


----------



## FastAndClean

TLDRonin said:


> As long as it didn't ship yet, yes


it's not shipped yet, i will cancel my order, thank you for your response


----------



## Slater

Comebackboy said:


> Anyone having this problem with the ZS10? Silver cable doesn't fit in fully on the right side for me. Stock cable is able to fit fully, and this silver cable fits fully on my ZS6.



Did you check to make sure the plug isn't turned the wrong way on the other side? Sometimes KZ accidentally installs the 2-pin jack backwards.

You need to line up the "flat" and "curve" between the jack and plug appropriately (like a key):


----------



## Comebackboy

Slater said:


> Did you check to make sure the plug isn't turned the wrong way on the other side? Sometimes KZ accidentally installs the 2-pin jack backwards.
> 
> You need to line up the "flat" and "curve" between the jack and plug appropriately (like a key):



Yup I checked.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2018)

*+++++ UNIMPORTANT BREAKING NEWS - THE SOUND OF THE ED15 - FIRST IMPRESSIONS +++++*

*Equipment:* iPhone 5S

*Wow nor not wow:* Wow!

*Signature:* Warm, a well rounded and detailed image built on a strong bass. A decent "fun" signature. Smells like V-shape.

*Bass:* Monster bass extension but not in a bad way. Very punchy bass and reasonably focused.

*Mids:* As always slightly recessed but this works with the ED15's bass. No bleeding into lower mids. Vocals are well rendered.

*Treble:* No pierce. Cymbals are crisp and clear.

*Transparency:* Ok!

*Soundstage:* Ok but not huge!

*Sibilance:* None!

*What makes the ED15 obviously different from a really expensive iem:* leaner mids; could have a bit more sparkle and three-dimensionality. Image could be lifted off the floor a bit. Could play a bit more relaxed.

*Satisfaction level: *Good, but no reason for a hype. Well worth their money. Anybody who has them on order can look forward to receiving them.

*Initial Verdict: *A winner and a very interesting earphone with a robust, surprisingly mature sound that differs from the previous KZ fare! Can't find any obvious flaws at $20 CAD. A good one to use on the bus.

*
Select comparisons *(from memory):

*UE900S: *No similarity!

*iBasso IT01: *The ED15 a leaner iBasso for the poor?

*EDR1*: ED15 has a more focused bass and an overall more refined image.

*ZS10: *Well, the ZS10 has a better resolution and a wider stage with more transparency.


----------



## Nikostr8

im impressed with the sound of the ZSR , but the wide nozzle is killing my ears... how can i neutralize this?


----------



## Comebackboy

On a side note, I have noticed that the silver cable emphasizes the highs and tones downs the lows for the ZS10 quite significantly. The stock cable gives a punchier, stronger bass, while the silver cable emphasizes the highs. Mids sound the same for both cables to me. Depends on what kind of sound your prefer.


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> Different BA driver placement.
> 1 different BA driver model.
> Different internal wiring.
> Different impedance.
> Different sound tuning.


I seem to remember that there was not an actual crossover in the V1. The drivers were just wired in parallel, thus the low impedance. Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Apr 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> Some of the photos look like they have 2 BAs in the nozzle?


QKZ VK1 has no BA, but each side has a "pull push" with two dynamics, including one graphene !
https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/pro...54.html?spm=a2g0w.12010608.0.0.693a6004psJl2J


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Bartig said:


> Is QKZ upping their game? Their new VK1 costs €18 rather than 3-10 euros, it looks seriously good and has the standard KZ packaging now.



Store has two coupons, you can add to save $3 ($1 normal, $2 select for 20 coins to bring the price down)

I’ve ordered just to see what’s it’s like, wanted to get a spare KZ cable to try to mod to be 2.5 trrs balanced and short, so though might as well get a new set of earphones for just a little more!

Thanks for the recommendation


----------



## Otto Motor

*Johnny S. Bach and the ED15*

Johnny Bach was the first punk in history....long before Johnny Rotten. This earphone emphasizes his basslines (_basso continuo_ with the harpsichord; keyboards are percussion after all) to bring out the true punk.


----------



## Aparker2005

Those qkz vk1 look very nice. Someone review them when they arrive!


----------



## phower

Aparker2005 said:


> Those qkz vk1 look very nice. Someone review them when they arrive!


The QKZ that I bought have been of poor quality. The cable failed in about 6 months and the filter in the nozzle had been poorly glued. They are a reseller of unsold stock AFAIK. I would avoid the brand.


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> I seem to remember that there was not an actual crossover in the V1. The drivers were just wired in parallel, thus the low impedance. Please correct me if I am wrong.



Correct.

Passive crossover components (and different wiring) were added to the ZS5 v2 (which carried over to the ZS6).


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

*KZ ZS10 - MEASUREMENTS AND COMPARISONS: FREQUENCY RESPONSES AND IMPEDANCE*

_*DISCLAIMER:* All measurements by a friend of mine - using my iems. He lives only 50 m upstream along our joint gin & tonic pipeline. The following will be a shaken (not stirred) mix of his and my ideas and comments._

*1. FREQUENCY RESPONSES
1.1. KZ ZS10*
Observation: Strong V-shape. Slight mismatch of L and R channels above 2K.

Interpretation: V-shape explains the recessed mids. Whether the channel mismatch above 2K is a measuring artefact or reflects a manufacturing inconsistency beats me (but is sonically not significant).

*1.2. COMPARISON ZS5 v1, ZSR, ZS10:*
Observation: All three have a V-shape (or W-shape) with a trough in the midrange at around 700 - 900 K . All three curves climb to peaks in the lower treble 2 - 3 K region. The ZS10 has the most emphasized bass and treble peak of the three and therefore the most pronounced V.

ZS5 v1. and ZS10 have rather similar FR curves whereas the ZSR's curve shows less emphasized lower treble.

Interpretation: The strongly V-shaped FR curve of the ZS10 produced by 5 (!) drivers and the similarity to the ZS5 explains why owners of the other KZ multidrivers and/or audiophiles are not thrilled by the ZS10. The ZSR appears strongest in the midrange and upper treble.

*2. IMPEDANCE ZS5 v1, ZSR, ZS10 *
Observation: The impedance profiles of the ZS10 and ZSR are rather similar and contrasting to the ZS5's.

Interpretation: ZS10 is very well behaved for a multi-BA: essentially flat at ~33 ohms (the mfr spec says 32, that's probably right, depending on the phones the rig can be up to 2 or 3 out) to ~3k, then dropping off through the treble. Compared with the ZS5 (crazy low) and even the ZSR this is pretty good. *This means bass vs midrange of the ZS10 will not be expected to change in level with the output impedance of the amplifier used.* It might of course change in level or (more likely) quality because of the quality of the amp or DAC, but that's a different issue. *Increased output impedance of the source should tame treble in the ZS10 and ZSR, and slightly boost treble in the ZS5.  *My friend is generally surprised by the smooth impedance curve; he had expected a bumpier ride from the 4 BA drivers.

3.* CONCLUDING REMARKS*
The FR response curves show why people who like vocals will likely prefer the ZSR over the other two models. The curves also confirm my earlier ZS10 impressions posted in this thread. People who liked the ZS5 v1 will probably like the ZS10 for the same reasons. The ZS10 has better detail so that  ZS5 fans would likely view them as an improvement. (Apart from its upper treble peak) my friend and I still prefer the ZSR.


----------



## Slater

phower said:


> The QKZ that I bought have been of poor quality. The cable failed in about 6 months and the filter in the nozzle had been poorly glued. They are a reseller of unsold stock AFAIK. I would avoid the brand.



Good advice IMO.

The only thing I tried that was ever decent was the W1 Pro (and even that is what I would consider "average").

I'm not willing to be the guinea pig. I'm not trying to be a negative nancy, but I've wasted too much money and been dissapointed with QKZ 1 too many times.

There are too many other IEMs that offer far superior quality, sound, and value. Anyone who wants to try a Graphene driver, the UiiSii CM5 and BlitzWolf EW1 are excellent choices, both for about half the cost of the VK1.

It appears to be based off the TRN V10 housing, which I remember owners commenting about it being enormous and uncomfortable. I'd be willing to bet that at BEST, the VK1 will be a side grade. I'd love to be proven wrong though.


----------



## Aparker2005

Ah that's disappointing. I'll stick with my kz then  Thanks!


----------



## Bartig

Otto Motor said:


> *+++++ UNIMPORTANT BREAKING NEWS - THE SOUND OF THE ED15 - FIRST IMPRESSIONS +++++*
> 
> *Equipment:* iPhone 5S
> 
> ...


I need a comparison with your ZSR... they sound alike?



CardigdanWalk said:


> Store has two coupons, you can add to save $3 ($1 normal, $2 select for 20 coins to bring the price down)
> 
> I’ve ordered just to see what’s it’s like, wanted to get a spare KZ cable to try to mod to be 2.5 trrs balanced and short, so though might as well get a new set of earphones for just a little more!
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation


Not a recommendation yet... but share your thoughts with us!


----------



## vladstef

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 - MEASUREMENTS AND COMPARISONS: FREQUENCY RESPONSES AND IMPEDANCE*
> 
> _*DISCLAIMER:* All measurements by a friend of mine - using my iems. He lives only 50 m upstream along our joint gin & tonic pipeline. The following will be a shaken (not stirred) mix of his and my ideas and comments._
> 
> ...



I pretty much have 0 doubts that this measurement is done with front vent closed or your unit simply has that vent closed by glue or some other substance. No DD of this size can push this much bass while being vented in the front.
Play a bit with vent holes and see what you find. Perhaps tape the 2 back vents and see how much the bass drops. Firstly I would seal the front vent and do the measurement again.


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 - MEASUREMENTS AND COMPARISONS: FREQUENCY RESPONSES AND IMPEDANCE*
> 
> _*DISCLAIMER:* All measurements by a friend of mine - using my iems. He lives only 50 m upstream along our joint gin & tonic pipeline. The following will be a shaken (not stirred) mix of his and my ideas and comments._
> 
> ...



The FR of ZS5 is more close to the modern headphone target curve while the ZS10 rises to 2kHz very quickly. This is a problem with BAs in general since they have a peak at 2kHz while the resonance of the human ear canal is supposed to result in a peak around 3.5kHz.


----------



## hakuzen

measured dc resistance of some other cables for kz. in ohms, left, right, groundL, groundR, using yr1030 and ut61e DMMs.

stock zs10 (with mic), 4 cords, braided brown, wire molded:
0.85   1.22!   0.94   0.78
this is an step back about conductivity, and increases imbalance.

trn silver plated copper, 4 cords, black:
0.71/72/71 0.73/75/75 0.70/73/86 0.73/74/74
clearly worse conductivity than the silver model.

not budget cables, bought during promo (they cost as much as zs6 or zs10):

silver plated copper, 8 cords, black:
0.26   0.27   0.26   0.26
good conductivity, wrong molded (watch out phase, guess you can remold it using some heat).

tin plated copper, 8 cords, brown:
0.188   0.188   0.185   0.185
amazing conductivity, plugs to drivers are quite long.

pics in my list of cables: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> I pretty much have 0 doubts that this measurement is done with front vent closed or your unit simply has that vent closed by glue or some other substance. No DD of this size can push this much bass while being vented in the front.
> Play a bit with vent holes and see what you find. Perhaps tape the 2 back vents and see how much the bass drops. Firstly I would seal the front vent and do the measurement again.



This was already posted yesterday (click for larger view):


----------



## Slater (Apr 21, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> silver plated copper, 8 cords, black:
> 0.26   0.27   0.26   0.26
> good conductivity, wrong molded (watch out phase, guess you can remold it using some heat).
> 
> ...



This is a testament that tin plated copper can often be just as good (if not better) than silver plated copper.

Plus so many "silver upgrade cables" are in reality simply tin plated copper, it's not even funny.

@hakuzen, do you mind sharing a link to the last 2 cables?


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> This is a testament that tin plated copper can often be just as good (if not better) than silver plated copper.
> 
> Plus so many "silver upgrade cables" are in reality simply tin plated copper, it's not even funny.
> 
> @hakuzen, do you mind sharing a link to the last 2 cables?


agree 100% about "silver" plated copper (mostly tin plated). it's curious that the one which states "tin plated" honestly, results to be the best one.
i can't share the links to those cables, sorry. you can watch their pics in my list, and search for them in aliexpress.


----------



## phower (Apr 21, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> measured dc resistance of some other cables for kz. in ohms, left, right, groundL, groundR, using yr1030 and ut61e DMMs.
> 
> stock zs10 (with mic), 4 cords, braided brown, wire molded:
> 0.85   1.22!   0.94   0.78
> this is an step back about conductivity, and increases imbalance.



I don't think it is such an imbalance. For a nomial impedance of 32 ohms and one volt, the imbalance between left and right channels comes out to be 0.054dB which is below the threshold of
audibility. Under exteremly careful conditions, we can differentiate 0.5 dB.


----------



## vladstef

Slater said:


> This was already posted yesterday (click for larger view):



There are some major differences between @Otto Motor 's graph and Phonograph's.
Bass is way too strong on Otto's yet Phonograph has a very obvious treble roll off...


----------



## phower

vladstef said:


> There are some major differences between @Otto Motor 's graph and Phonograph's.
> Bass is way too strong on Otto's yet Phonograph has a very obvious treble roll off...


That is perfectly normal. You can only compare FR of 2 different headphones from the same measurement gear. It is not easy to compare the measurements from different gear unless one applies a compensation curve.


----------



## vladstef

phower said:


> That is perfectly normal. You can only compare FR of 2 different headphones from the same measurement gear. It is not easy to compare the measurements from different gear unless one applies a compensation curve.



I understand, but this usually only applies to upper mid range and treble, bass should be a lot more consistent. Anyways, a bunch of us are getting out pairs and then we'll have a better picture.


----------



## Adide (Apr 21, 2018)

@hakuzen great job, keep it up.
If you'll ever have the chance try this one, I expect it to have a fairly low impedance according to specs (6N OCC). Ergonomics are great, very soft and silky. It also has a chin slider. Ear guides are metal wire but I don't mind, I always use them and never remove.
Just got it recently so I don't know if it will turn green or not. I started to use dessicant in my cases recently as some suggested, I hope it will alleviate the problem.

6N Thin HIFI Earphone Cable for KZ zs10 ZS5 ZS6 UE18 JH13 W4r ZSE DIY Replacement 1.2m Audio Cable earphones Silver plated cable
http://s.aliexpress.com/3iQ3iQj2?fromSns=Copy to clipboard


----------



## Thumpsy

My zs10's arrived.  They make a crinkling sound when I put them in my ears.  Is that the dreaded driver flex I'm experiencing? 

They sound alright but I prefer the zs6 so far.


----------



## hakuzen (Apr 21, 2018)

phower said:


> I don't think it is such an imbalance. For a nomial impedance of 32 ohms and one volt, the imbalance between left and right channels comes out to be 0.054dB which is below the threshold of
> audibility. Under exteremly careful conditions, we can differentiate 0.5 dB.


you are right.
my calculations say 0.10dB, though. and 0.27dB @11kHz, where zs10 impedance can go down to 11ohms. anyway, lower than those audible 0.5dB.



Adide said:


> @hakuzen great job, keep it up.
> If you'll ever have the chance try this one, I expect it to have a fairly low impedance according to specs (6N OCC). Ergonomics are great, very soft and silky. It also has a chin slider. Ear guides are metal wire but I don't mind, I always use them and never remove.
> Just got it recently so I don't know if it will turn green or not. I started to use dessicant in my cases recently as some suggested, I hope it will alleviate the problem.
> 
> 6N Thin HIFI Earphone Cable for KZ zs10 ZS5 ZS6 UE18 JH13 W4r ZSE DIY Replacement 1.2m Audio Cable earphones Silver plated cable


you can check measurements of orange and grey versions of that cable in my list. not a conductivity upgrade, but nice looking and comfort. it will turn green soon (coat isn't thick); i don't mind that, specially because it pairs well with green zs6.


----------



## Slater

Thumpsy said:


> My zs10's arrived.  They make a crinkling sound when I put them in my ears.  Is that the dreaded driver flex I'm experiencing?



Yes


----------



## lmfboy01

This is my goto at the moment, while I wait for ZS10 and ZSR...


----------



## phower

hakuzen said:


> you are right.
> my calculations say 0.10dB, though. and 0.27dB @11kHz, where zs10 impedance can go down to 11ohms. anyway, lower than those audible 0.5dB.
> 
> 
> you can check measurements of orange and grey versions of that cable in my list. not a conductivity upgrade, but nice looking and comfort. it will turn green soon (coat isn't thick); i don't mind that, specially because it pairs well with green zs6.


Yes. For 11 ohms, the difference is 0.14dB. Still, this is below the threshold of audibility and we shouldn't fuss about cables. The only time cables matter is for loudspeakers whose impedance could drop to 2 ohms.


----------



## Adide

hakuzen said:


> you can check measurements of orange and grey versions of that cable in my list. not worthy, except of aesthetics.



Almost sure it's not the same. Different plugs and y splitter. Mine also come in only one color.


----------



## hakuzen

phower said:


> Yes. For 11 ohms, the difference is 0.14dB. Still, this is below the threshold of audibility and we shouldn't fuss about cables. The only time cables matter is for loudspeakers whose impedance could drop to 2 ohms.


.. and zs5 v1, 4.8 ohms.
the only reason of measuring resistance of cables is because i found that my best cables do have better conductivity than the others. it's a signal of used materials, total section, and quality of the contacts and solders; although this doesn't make big impact on audio, it's a matter of perfectionism.


----------



## snip3r77

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 - MEASUREMENTS AND COMPARISONS: FREQUENCY RESPONSES AND IMPEDANCE*
> 
> _*DISCLAIMER:* All measurements by a friend of mine - using my iems. He lives only 50 m upstream along our joint gin & tonic pipeline. The following will be a shaken (not stirred) mix of his and my ideas and comments._
> 
> ...



I can imagine how sharp is it as compared to the zs5.

Why there is a dip at the FR for zxr?


----------



## snip3r77

Slater said:


> This is a testament that tin plated copper can often be just as good (if not better) than silver plated copper.
> 
> Plus so many "silver upgrade cables" are in reality simply tin plated copper, it's not even funny.
> 
> @hakuzen, do you mind sharing a link to the last 2 cables?


Do you prefer good copper or silver ?


----------



## Slater

snip3r77 said:


> Do you prefer good copper or silver ?



Well, I have no pure silver cables of my own, only silver-plated copper, pure copper, and tin-plated copper.

And, while others may agree or disagree, I personally feel the major influencing factor for sonic differences in cables is related to impedance. Sure, good solder, good connectors, flexibilty, microphonics, shielding, etc all play a part, but I'm strictly talking about the perceived (and highly debateable) difference in sound.

With that said, if I had my choice, my preference would be whatever cable provided the best quality construction with the lowest possible impedance (and thus the lowest possible impact/coloration of the sound). I've seen good, as well as bad, examples of both (as far as impedance).

I will also say that (other than NASA-level stuff), critical mil-spec cable is almost always silver plated copper. Read into that what you want.


----------



## snip3r77

Slater said:


> Well, I have no pure silver cables of my own, only silver-plated copper, pure copper, and tin-plated copper.
> 
> And, while others may agree or disagree, I personally feel the major influencing factor for sonic differences in cables is related to impedance. Sure, good solder, good connectors, flexibilty, microphonics, shielding, etc all play a part, but I'm strictly talking about the perceived (and highly debateable) difference in sound.
> 
> ...


Most don't provide resistance value when you want to purchase


----------



## Slater (Apr 21, 2018)

snip3r77 said:


> Most don't provide resistance value when you want to purchase



Agreed. I'm talking after-the-fact.

For example, I have the black (copper) and silver-plated TRN cables. The silver TRN cable has lower resistance between the 2, so that is the one I prefer.

However, I have numerous KZ cables - a stock (copper) one vs a silver-plated cable. The silver-plated cable has lower resistance, so that is the one I would prefer.

That is an example that there isn't a blanket answer to copper vs silver-plated. It varies by cable and by manufacturer. And as you mentioned, most don't provide resistance values up-front. That's why it's so useful that @hakuzen has been kind enough to provide measurements for a number of cables.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2018)

vladstef said:


> I pretty much have 0 doubts that this measurement is done with front vent closed or your unit simply has that vent closed by glue or some other substance. No DD of this size can push this much bass while being vented in the front.
> Play a bit with vent holes and see what you find. Perhaps tape the 2 back vents and see how much the bass drops. Firstly I would seal the front vent and do the measurement again.



*Summary of the blabla below:*
1. Vents were not closed.
2. Mismatch between Phonograph and friend is normal as each rig is different. What counts is the differences between the curves of different models on the same rig.
3. Therefore, the differences between ZS5, ZSR, and ZS10 are real because the measurements were internally consistent.
4. I personally trust my friend (with no commercial interest) more than the ad-laced phonograph that earns cash with every purchase through their site.

*The long version:*
This would mean that both vent holes were closed equally, considering the matching bass segments of L and R on the curve. Hardly possible.

The guy who preformed the measurements told me: _vents were not closed, and he has had bass up more than that in measurements of other phones. The bass driver on these is 10 mm, pretty big for a multi-driver hybrid. He wants to emphasise - yet again - that his homebrewed measurement coupler is its own thing, so these results shouldn't be taken as absolutes, only as showing relative characteristics (for 'phower' to note, too; please don't compare these measurements to the Olive-Welti or any other target curve developed using a particular commercial measurement rig). So ideally, people who've heard one of these should look at the results and develop their own 'mental compensation curve' between its curve to what they hear. Then they'll be able to interpret the measurements of the one(s) they haven't heard.

The ZS10 front vent does have some sort of filter behind it, so it's not entirely free-breathing. Punching this out would reduce bass, as would, as vladstef says, taping up the rear vents. Modders might have fun with that - but the point of these measurements was to compare the 3 models in stock form._


----------



## KainHighwind

Hi guys, is is there anyway to make ZS5 high notes kind of "lower", it's too sharp and produce an "ssssss" sound, especially the climax part of the song, it's annoying... Thanks!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2018)

Bartig said:


> I need a comparison with your ZSR... they sound alike?



No, they don't sound alike!

The ED15 sounds similar to the Urbanfun Hifi hybrid. Both have 1 BA and 1 dynamic driver. I am not sure which of the two iems is "better". The ED15 has a stronger bass and the vocals in the Urbanfun may be a bit less recessed, but the difference is small. The Takstar and the ED15 are similar in the bass but the former is grainier in the mids.

ZS5, ZSR, and ZS10 are one class above. Compared to the ED15, the ZSR has more forward and dynamic mids and a bigger, more natural image.

Don't forget, the ZSR costs twice as much as the ED15.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 21, 2018)

KainHighwind said:


> Hi guys, is is there anyway to make ZS5 high notes kind of "lower", it's too sharp and produce an "ssssss" sound, especially the climax part of the song, it's annoying... Thanks!


Look at this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2081#post-14189853

The ZS5 are very source sensitive. You will have to use a lower-output source to reduce treble. But possibly just a dac with better rendering will help.


----------



## TheKookyHacker

Hi guys, I'm new to the forums but was wondering if anyone could help me. I've been tossing up between buying a pair of ZS6s or ZSRs. I have the ZS3s and really like the way they fit, but am looking for something that sounds a little better. I like to listen to old school jazz and acoustic covers. Could you guys help me out?


----------



## snip3r77

Slater said:


> Agreed. I'm talking after-the-fact.
> 
> For example, I have the black (copper) and silver-plated TRN cables. The silver TRN cable has lower resistance between the 2, so that is the one I prefer.
> 
> ...



Does @hakuzen has a Webbie? 

In general, lower resistance is preferred ?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

*ON OBTAINING IDENTICAL FR CURVES USING DIFFERENT RIGS - OR NOT*

This is not possible as each rig setup is slightly different. Here four FR curves for the KZ ZS5 v1. earphone from four different rigs.

Three of the FR curves are almost identical, only the phonograph is off relative to the others in that...

1. The phonograph's X-axis terminates at 24 kHz (as previously pointed out by Slater), the others at 20 kHz. The 24K is consistently wrong labelling on every phonograph curve.
2. The second of the circled double peak is higher than the first in the phonograph's curve. It is the other way round in the other three curves.
3. The phonograph's curve is suspiciously smooth.

*It appears that the phonograph's curves are not the original software outputs but an artist's rendering. Sloppy work and not reliable to me!*


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

TheKookyHacker said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to the forums but was wondering if anyone could help me. I've been tossing up between buying a pair of ZS6s or ZSRs. I have the ZS3s and really like the way they fit, but am looking for something that sounds a little better. I like to listen to old school jazz and acoustic covers. Could you guys help me out?


I would recommend the ZSR. Reasoning:
1. They are universally liked
2. They have essentially the same fit as the ZS3
3. They are really good sounding
4. They are cheaper than the ZS6

The ZS6 are polarizing as they have a 10K peak that is not for treble sensitive people (it hurts in my ears). They have a different fit than the ZS3 and - on the good side - they are made of metal.

I have both, the ZS6 for looks and the ZSR for listening. Hope that helps.


----------



## Slater

snip3r77 said:


> Does @hakuzen has a Webbie?
> 
> In general, lower resistance is preferred ?



Not that I know of, but he has been slowly compiling/updating this list: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853

Also, here is some helpful reading on the topic (may be Greek to some though):

http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1925#post-14087353

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed.601669/

Typically the answer is "yes" on question #2. There are special cases where higher resistance (or an impedance adapter) might be beneficial.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


>



Hmmm, tell us more about this supposed mysterious "friend" haha. I love a good mystery!


----------



## Slater (Apr 22, 2018)

TheKookyHacker said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to the forums but was wondering if anyone could help me. I've been tossing up between buying a pair of ZS6s or ZSRs. I have the ZS3s and really like the way they fit, but am looking for something that sounds a little better. I like to listen to old school jazz and acoustic covers. Could you guys help me out?





Otto Motor said:


> I would recommend the ZSR. Reasoning:
> 1. They are universally liked
> 2. They have essentially the same fit as the ZS3
> 3. They are really good sounding
> ...



Per Otto's ZSR recommendation above:

1. Yes, for the most part
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
4. Agreed

Another option is to wait for the ZS3's successor (the ZS4), and wait for reviews/impressions. It's in the same body as a ZS3 (which you said you liked the fit of), only a hybrid design (DD+BA). No one has heard it yet, nor knows exactly what drivers will be used in it yet.  The existing ZS3 shell only fits a 7mm or 8mm dymanic driver though, so my guess is it will be one of those (plus some sort of BA in the nozzle of course). ZS4 is due for release at some point in the very near future.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> Hmmm, tell us more about this supposed mysterious "friend" haha. I love a good mystery!


There are two main forums..."the other forum" and Head Fi. Posts mentioning that other forum are banned here -  because the moderators of both forums dislike each other.

The members of the other forum are snobbish. You can't discuss trivial stuff such as colour and buying advice over there.

Therefore, that member of the other forum prefers not to be mentioned here so that he is not discredited over there. He obviously measured stuff that has been published over there....including some of my headphones. I am also a member over there but under a different name - and have been inactive fore most of the time. I have had only a single post I think.

Childish? Mysterious? Silly? Hmmm....yes!


----------



## bsoplinger

TheKookyHacker said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to the forums but was wondering if anyone could help me. I've been tossing up between buying a pair of ZS6s or ZSRs. I have the ZS3s and really like the way they fit, but am looking for something that sounds a little better. I like to listen to old school jazz and acoustic covers. Could you guys help me out?


I assume that you're asking here because you're planning on purchasing a KZ product. I'll go further with assuming that its because the KZ you have was inexpensive and sounds OK. I'll add that if I were to choose between the two you list and given your description of the music you like that I'd also recommend the ZSR. 

If I'm correct with my assumptions, I'll just point out that there are other under $30 (about the price of the ZSR) IEMs that have flatter frequency responses and might be a better choice for listening to music that has lots of acoustic instruments versus electric ones. Check out the under $100 Chinese IEMs thread. Recent popular under $30 that you'll find there are the Yersen FEN-2000, TRN V20, UiiSii CM5, Rose North Forest, MEMT X5 and EINSEAR T2. There are other choices too but I tried to just list ones I've listened to that I think would be good or ones with reviews consistent with sounding good with acoustic music.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> I assume that you're asking here because you're planning on purchasing a KZ product. I'll go further with assuming that its because the KZ you have was inexpensive and sounds OK. I'll add that if I were to choose between the two you list and given your description of the music you like that I'd also recommend the ZSR.
> 
> If I'm correct with my assumptions, I'll just point out that there are other under $30 (about the price of the ZSR) IEMs that have flatter frequency responses and might be a better choice for listening to music that has lots of acoustic instruments versus electric ones. Check out the under $100 Chinese IEMs thread. Recent popular under $30 that you'll find there are the Yersen FEN-2000, TRN V20, UiiSii CM5, Rose North Forest, MEMT X5 and EINSEAR T2. There are other choices too but I tried to just list ones I've listened to that I think would be good or ones with reviews consistent with sounding good with acoustic music.



ATE is good with acoustic as well...very natural tone.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

*TONAL DIFFERENCE EDR1 - ED15
*
I was asked this question!

Answer: $10!

Joke aside, the tonal quality difference between the two is not that big. The ED15 has a better separation between bass and mids, and voices sound more refined and accurate. And the ED15's bass is a bit less loose. A brightening in the mids is the BA driver's handwriting.

I still found that the technically simpler and less accurate EDR1 sounds a bit rounder, warmer, and more musical; it is definitely not less fun than the ED15 and is probably less fatiguing in the long run.

In summary, the ED15 sounds more controlled in all departments but I don't want to miss my EDR1.

And after three flat bicycle tires yesterday, my new ED15 found a home.

*CABLE SCHMABLE PART 437
*
Rubbery EDR1 cable against new fancy schmancy braided stock cable...I have spent quite some time untangling the new stock cable as braiding introduces friction. Nothing wrong with the  rubbery one to me. Don't know about the difference in microphonics since I don't move much.


----------



## Bartig

TheKookyHacker said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to the forums but was wondering if anyone could help me. I've been tossing up between buying a pair of ZS6s or ZSRs. I have the ZS3s and really like the way they fit, but am looking for something that sounds a little better. I like to listen to old school jazz and acoustic covers. Could you guys help me out?


The ZSR is a better allrounder of the two, I’d recommend that one of the two.

However, with your genre preferences, the Yersen FEN-2000 may be spot on. It retrieves so much detail from your favorite genres!


----------



## manukmanohar

Otto Motor said:


> I would recommend the ZSR. Reasoning:
> 1. They are universally liked
> 2. They have essentially the same fit as the ZS3
> 3. They are really good sounding
> ...



How would you compare ZS5 v2 with ZS6. I generally am not treble sensitive, and love airy treble However, ZS5 v2 passes the threshold for me, and is very sibilant, and slightly harsh treble in quite a few songs.


----------



## Otto Motor

manukmanohar said:


> How would you compare ZS5 v2 with ZS6. I generally am not treble sensitive, and love airy treble However, ZS5 v2 passes the threshold for me, and is very sibilant, and slightly harsh treble in quite a few songs.


I don't know the ZS5 v2.


----------



## taygomi

hakuzen said:


> DC resistance of some cables for KZ , in ohms (left, right, groundL [, groundR]).
> 
> zst/es3/zsr/zs10 type (also valid for zs3/5/6):
> (31) kz plated (4cords,w/transp,black rings)...........0.35/36/40 0.35/37/39 0.35/37/40
> ...



Would you prefer the 31 or 38 as an upgrade for the standard ZST-cable.


----------



## TheKookyHacker

Thanks all for your help! I'm going to go with the ZSR and hold off for the new releases


----------



## hakuzen

taygomi said:


> Would you prefer the 31 or 38 as an upgrade for the standard ZST-cable.


both are quite good. it's difficult to find 31 now (note it has black rings in the 3.5mm jack, not white rings), so i'd say go with 38, if you don't mind it gets green/blue soon.


----------



## hakuzen

snip3r77 said:


> Do you prefer good copper or silver ?


i follow same guidelines than @Slater , but the cables i prefer in my inventory are all good copper.



KainHighwind said:


> Hi guys, is is there anyway to make ZS5 high notes kind of "lower", it's too sharp and produce an "ssssss" sound, especially the climax part of the song, it's annoying... Thanks!


if your zs5 is zs5v2 (2 BAs in the nozzle), which is probable given your description, you can follow all guidelines in this thread to tame the high peaks of zs6 (very similar to zs5v2).


----------



## fenderbendr

Does anyone know if the Spinfit dual flange CP240 or single flange CP100 fit the KZ ZS3?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

*FOOD CLASSIFICATION OF RECENT KZ MODELS AND THEIR COMPETITION 
*
I am frequently asked how one earphone compares to another - in many cases, these earphones are in different price categories.

Until recently, I have wondered whether a really expensive earphone provides more pleasure than a cheap one. Why would anyone fork out $3000 for a 18 driver earphone when the EDR1 makes them happy?

Food is similar to earphones in that there are huge price differences. I attempt to group earphones in analogy to meat and fish dishes to help answer the above question.

*Hot Dog:* Rock Zircon, the "king of audiobudget". Works when you are hungry. Goes down with lots of mustard and a can of Bud Light. But it makes you fart.

*Burger:* Basic and juicy. Comes with different fixings and flavours. That's the classic and always reliable single drivers from KZ. You know what you get. Convenience food.

*Meat Loaf:* The $20 fare. A bit finer spiced than the burgers and served with a tasty gravy, but sometimes I miss the bun.

*Schnitzel: *A golden brown, thinly sliced piece of veil. Produces a fine, natural flavour but the batter may sometimes have soaked up too much butter. That's the KZ multi-driver fare.

*Salmon:*  A thick slab of healthy salmon is good for your health. That's your neutrally tuned Tinaudio T2, which is a rare beast in the $50 price category. Careful that the fish is not getting too dry.

*Steak:* Lean meat for your ears. The Fidue A65 is a tender filet mignon with thin Belgian fries, whereas the iBasso IT01 is a gigantic mouth-watering T-bone served with a boiled spud, sour cream, and spring onions. Wash down with premium beer.

*Lobster:* Earphones containing batteries of BA drivers that bring out the fine, natural flavours. Not many spices are used for this purpose so that a well-trained palate is needed for full appreciation.

Well, not every day is a lobster day. Sometimes, we crave a burger (Slater).

*Bon Appetit!

WARNING: DON'T EAT YOUR EARPHONES!
*


----------



## MDH12AX7

Makes me want to eat my ZS6's


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> *FOOD CLASSIFICATION OF RECENT KZ MODELS AND THEIR COMPETITION
> *
> I am frequently asked how one earphone compares to another - in many cases, these earphones are in different price categories.
> 
> ...



You forgot the KZ ED4:


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> You forgot the KZ ED4:


What is that? A natural laxative!


----------



## toddy0191

Otto Motor said:


> But it makes you fart.



Post of the year!!!!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Post of the year!!!!


Use the Rock Zircon when you are bloated! Works even better with Newcie Brown Ale...but this also causes man boobs.


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> What is that? A natural laxative!



Check it out on YouTube. Pretty comical stuff. Banned in most places because of the odor.


----------



## toddy0191

Otto Motor said:


> Use the Rock Zircon when you are bloated! Works even better with Newcie Brown Ale...but this also causes man boobs.



I work in Newcastle and sadly that is something I see every day.

Good to hear you like the ed15s btw


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 22, 2018)

!


----------



## notamethlab

I was sent a ZS6 instead of a ZSR, thanks Amazon. Regardless I'll keep them and purchase the ZSR for AE. 

How do I make sure my cable is connected properly? I am using the TRN V20's cable because that's all I have atm.


----------



## Slater (Apr 22, 2018)

notamethlab said:


> I was sent a ZS6 instead of a ZSR, thanks Amazon. Regardless I'll keep them and purchase the ZSR for AE.
> 
> How do I make sure my cable is connected properly? I am using the TRN V20's cable because that's all I have atm.



With the TRN cable, you can tell by the way the war guides curve. Once you locate the small L and R letters on the TRN 2-pin plugs, make the ear guide curve back away from the nozzle end.

If that doesn’t make sense, I can post a picture when I get home.

You’ll still want to check the phase with one of the audioheck.net or YouTube files, as KZ occasionally installs the red jack backwards or solders the wires backwards internally.


----------



## TLDRonin

notamethlab said:


> I was sent a ZS6 instead of a ZSR, thanks Amazon. Regardless I'll keep them and purchase the ZSR for AE.
> 
> How do I make sure my cable is connected properly? I am using the TRN V20's cable because that's all I have atm.


If amazon sends you the wrong item, you're legally allowed to keep it and get a refund.


----------



## Wiljen

You also left off the Ghost Pepper topped Buffalo chicken sandwich - the Zs6 "Hottest treble in town"


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> If amazon sends you the wrong item, you're legally allowed to keep it and get a refund.



Karma man, karma


----------



## khighly

I still cannot find anything really special about the ZSR's. They pump a lot of mid bass, somewhat decent soundstage, but that's really about it for the good. They have crackling when bass hits, and disappointing muddy sub-low end. I'll admit I might have a bad pair, but they're both working fine.

Probably have hundreds of hours on the IT03's now and they don't really impress me more than the ZS5's once I get used to them again, but I continue to use them because they're the best isolation I have with a 1hr bus ride every morning to work, and they're the only IEM's I have now with MMCX for my bluetooth adapter.


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> Karma man, karma


I think the karma gods would turn a blind eye to keeping a $30 IEM from a 700 billion dollar corporation, when its technically their fault


----------



## paulindss

TLDRonin said:


> I think the karma gods would turn a blind eye to keeping a $30 IEM from a 700 billion dollar corporation, when its technically their fault



Being a zs6, most probably it was seled in marketplace. Probably a small store Would take the the loss.

But i would'nt hesitate in keeping and taking refund If i didn't wanted the zs6. It does'nt makes sense to the consumer take the product, send back and waste time to cover an error of the shop.


----------



## TLDRonin

paulindss said:


> Being a zs6, most probably it was seled in marketplace. Probably a small store Would take the the loss.
> 
> But i would'nt hesitate in keeping and taking refund If i didn't wanted the zs6. It doesn't makes sense to the consumer take the product, send back and waste time to cover an error of the shop.


Unless he bought it from a third party amazon seller, then everything is fulfilled by amazon, meaning amazon would take the loss. At the end of the day, not sending it back would probably be one of the best way to help ensure they don't make the same mistake


----------



## notamethlab

My order was fulfilled by amazon, you all are right I'll contact support when I get gome from work. In the meantime, is this correct? When I plug them in the opposite way I get a subtle buzzing sound.


----------



## TLDRonin

notamethlab said:


> My order was fulfilled by amazon, you all are right I'll contact support when I get gome from work. In the meantime, is this correct? When I plug them in the opposite way I get a subtle buzzing sound.


You probably shouldn't plug them in the opposite way. That sound definitely isn't a "good" thing


----------



## HungryPanda

Don't worry Amazon will just shaft their workers


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 22, 2018)

See below


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 22, 2018)

khighly said:


> I still cannot find anything really special about the ZSR's. They pump a lot of mid bass, somewhat decent soundstage, but that's really about it for the good. They have crackling when bass hits, and disappointing muddy sub-low end. I'll admit I might have a bad pair, but they're both working fine.
> 
> Probably have hundreds of hours on the IT03's now and they don't really impress me more than the ZS5's once I get used to them again, but I continue to use them because they're the best isolation I have with a 1hr bus ride every morning to work, and they're the only IEM's I have now with MMCX for my bluetooth adapter.



Sometimes things just don't float your boat but I highly recommend further tip-rolling if you've only used the ZSR with a few eartips. With some eartips the ZSR can come across as slightly veiled in the midrange if the lower frequencies are too prominent. I swapped to a tight fitting but somewhat narrow-bored silicone eartip and it slightly pulled the midrange forward while slightly offering more control in the lower frequency ranges. It wasn't by much but it was enough to give classic rock a good balance of warmth and transparency. 

 

The eartip on the far right, which has a collar small enough to fit on a 3mm nozzle, is the eartip that gave me the better presentation. It's quite odd that it fit when you consider the ZSR's 6mm telephone pole nozzle but it did work wonders. To my ears, while tip-rolling with the ZSR I found that the more narrow the bore is the more forward the midrange becomes. It's just a matter of finding the balance that best suits your tastes.

If there is an eartip that can produce similar results then perhaps you'll get more enjoyment out of your ZSR.

I remember how much you enjoyed your ZS6 despite your having to get acclimated to its extraordinary sense of micro-detail. Stay tuned over the coming weeks because there may be some noteworthy information to report in the near future. That's all I can say for now but keep a watchful eye on this thread in the coming weeks.

In the meantime, I'm sure you have your own test tracks but for those who identify with your experience I've included several test tracks to use while tip-rolling in order to achieve a midrange with more presence and sub-bass with a slightly smaller footprint. The second track in particular should be helpful in determining the relationship between the midrange and the lower frequencies. 



Spoiler


----------



## riffrafff

DocHoliday said:


> Sometimes things just don't float your boat but I highly recommend further tip-rolling if you've only used the ZSR with a few eartips. With some eartips the ZSR can come across as slightly veiled in the midrange if the lower frequencies are too prominent. I swapped to a tight fitting but somewhat narrow-bored silicone eartip and it slightly pulled the midrange forward while slightly offering more control in the lower frequency ranges. It wasn't by much but it was enough to give classic rock a good balance of warmth and transparency.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Agreed.  The ZSR is one of my more favoritest IEMs, but it does involve some tip rolling.   And someone mentioned the ZS6 as "the hottest treble in town..."  like that's a bad thing.  Some of us old guys need that.  lol.   (Though the ZS6 does indeed seem a bit bright, even to me.)


----------



## sino8r

How would you guys compare the Tin Audio T2 to the ZS6? I just sent back the ZS10 and Tennmak TRIO due to lacking the treble of the ZS6. Am I chasing a dream that can't be achieved or at least without spending a lot of cash? I guess I've fallen for the sparkle when I used to love the bassier stuff. It must go just sound best with the classic rock that I've been into lately. The loud vocals, guitar, etc. I assumed that the ZS10 was the replacement for the ZS6. I guess I was wrong. Maybe it's that model that looks similar to them on that upcoming picture a few pages back?


----------



## TLDRonin

sino8r said:


> How would you guys compare the Tin Audio T2 to the ZS6? I just sent back the ZS10 and Tennmak TRIO due to lacking the treble of the ZS6. Am I chasing a dream that can't be achieved or at least without spending a lot of cash? I guess I've fallen for the sparkle when I used to love the bassier stuff. It must go just sound best with the classic rock that I've been into lately. The loud vocals, guitar, etc. I assumed that the ZS10 was the replacement for the ZS6. I guess I was wrong. Maybe it's that model that looks similar to them on that upcoming picture a few pages back?



ZS6 are notorious treble cannons. You probably won't find any other iems that have as much treble presence as them anywhere near their price


For classic music though, I think the T2 has an objectively better tuning, being a neutral sort of bright kind of sound signature.


----------



## nxnje

Where did you find it? I really want one!




Podster said:


> Original Amped ZN1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bartig (Apr 23, 2018)

khighly said:


> I still cannot find anything really special about the ZSR's. They pump a lot of mid bass, somewhat decent soundstage, but that's really about it for the good. They have crackling when bass hits, and disappointing muddy sub-low end. I'll admit I might have a bad pair, but they're both working fine.
> 
> Probably have hundreds of hours on the IT03's now and they don't really impress me more than the ZS5's once I get used to them again, but I continue to use them because they're the best isolation I have with a 1hr bus ride every morning to work, and they're the only IEM's I have now with MMCX for my bluetooth adapter.


It’s only yesterday I listened to the ZSR after the ZhiYin Z5000 and noticed the bleeding mid bass and muddy sub bass. I’ll do some tip rolling and give the ZS10 more listening time. Maybe I’ll grow to like the clear separation between mids and bass - a sound I’ve found rather ‘not full’ till now. A reason why the FEN2000 and C630 aren’t my favorites I guess.


----------



## HardstyleLoco96

Could anyone compare the Kz Zs10 to the Oriveti New Primacy?


----------



## stimuz (Apr 23, 2018)

my zs10s arrived this morning and ive been listenening to them throughout the day. they have issues at higher volumes(some sibilance and bass bleeding) which i normally test new headphones at but man are they fantastic at low volume, honestly pretty nice at lower volumes than I'm used to. im just glad i can use em as bedtime iems instead of going straight to the drawer.


----------



## maxxevv

stimuz said:


> my zs10s arrived this morning and ive been listenening to them throughout the day. they have issues at higher volumes(some sibilance and bass bleeding) which i normally test new headphones at but man are they fantastic at low volume, honestly pretty nice at lower volumes than I'm used to. im just glad i can use em as bedtime iems instead of going straight to the drawer.



If you can, use a source that has more power ( if you are not already doing that),  the bass tightens up and as for that hint of sibilance, give it an overnight burn-in on pink noise, its largely negligible after that. That's what I get from mine, driving from a 1W@16 Ohm DAC/Amp.


----------



## Isloo

I recently received a pair of ZS3s and am loving them paired with my A&K Jr. They have really good synergy together. So far I only have the ZS3, ATE and ES3, of which I think the ZS3's are the most coherent and the best sounding. Can anyone who has the ZSRs kindly let me know how they compare to any of these ? Thanks.


----------



## Comebackboy

sino8r said:


> How would you guys compare the Tin Audio T2 to the ZS6? I just sent back the ZS10 and Tennmak TRIO due to lacking the treble of the ZS6. Am I chasing a dream that can't be achieved or at least without spending a lot of cash? I guess I've fallen for the sparkle when I used to love the bassier stuff. It must go just sound best with the classic rock that I've been into lately. The loud vocals, guitar, etc. I assumed that the ZS10 was the replacement for the ZS6. I guess I was wrong. Maybe it's that model that looks similar to them on that upcoming picture a few pages back?



I agree. The ZS10 doesn't have the same kind of sparkle and sharpness in the treble as compared to the ZS6. Not saying that the ZS10 doesn't do well in the high range though. It's just that ZS6 are treble cannons. While I feel that the ZS10 is an overall upgrade from the ZS6, I'm abit reluctant to replace my ZS6 because I prefer the kind of sond the ZS6 gives.


----------



## HardstyleLoco96

Comebackboy said:


> I agree. The ZS10 doesn't have the same kind of sparkle and sharpness in the treble as compared to the ZS6. Not saying that the ZS10 doesn't do well in the high range though. It's just that ZS6 are treble cannons. While I feel that the ZS10 is an overall upgrade from the ZS6, I'm abit reluctant to replace my ZS6 because I prefer the kind of sond the ZS6 gives.


So would you say the ZS10 is good bang for the buck though. I like great treble extension but without it being to elevated. Would the ZS10 compete with other iems 3 or 4 times the asking price maybe more? I already have the Oriveti New Primacy with a Effect Audio Aress ii upgrade cable and I feel for an upgrade I will have to spend at least 2 or 3 times more for a direct upgrade. If the Zs10 is as good or can compliment the New Primacy i'll get them


----------



## stimuz

HardstyleLoco96 said:


> Would the ZS10 compete with other iems 3 or 4 times the asking price maybe more?



I doubt it but I don't really think it competes even with IT01 which is the most pricy IEM I own. I don't have any other high count BA IEMs and it could just be a characteristic of those but again its very listenable at low volumes which gives it a useful spot in my lineup.


----------



## Bartig

Isloo said:


> I recently received a pair of ZS3s and am loving them paired with my A&K Jr. They have really good synergy together. So far I only have the ZS3, ATE and ES3, of which I think the ZS3's are the most coherent and the best sounding. Can anyone who has the ZSRs kindly let me know how they compare to any of these ? Thanks.


If you like those three KZ’s, you’ll love the ZSR. They sound thicker and more detailed. A real step up.



HardstyleLoco96 said:


> So would you say the ZS10 is good bang for the buck though. I like great treble extension but without it being to elevated. Would the ZS10 compete with other iems 3 or 4 times the asking price maybe more? I already have the Oriveti New Primacy with a Effect Audio Aress ii upgrade cable and I feel for an upgrade I will have to spend at least 2 or 3 times more for a direct upgrade. If the Zs10 is as good or can compliment the New Primacy i'll get them


No. I would rather say the ZS10 offers good value for it’s price.


----------



## Isloo

> If you like those three KZ’s, you’ll love the ZSR. They sound thicker and more detailed. A real step up.



Thanks for that. I will order the ZSRs as well. I am really impressed with ZS3s, so really looking forward to hearing the ZSRs.


----------



## Aparker2005

I still absolutely love my ES3. Probably the most comfortable and fitting headphone I've ever had. Ready to see if my zs10 will replace it as my main


----------



## bsoplinger

Hey KZ! You listening? 

Just in case they do actually peruse this thread. Look at all the folks who like the tremble cannon ZS6 (and even the ZS5 v2). Then look at the folks who are, if not complaining, unhappy or underwhelmed with the bass and sub bass of the ZS10. How about producing a model with all the bass of the ZS6 with the crossover controlled sound of the mids and highs of the ZS10? I'd doesn't need to have 10 speakers, honestly, the count isn't important. Its the sound. You've shown from past models that you can tune IEMs and not just stick speakers in a shell. You've produced sound in portions of the spectrum in different models that people like. Just put it together.


----------



## Comebackboy

HardstyleLoco96 said:


> So would you say the ZS10 is good bang for the buck though. I like great treble extension but without it being to elevated. Would the ZS10 compete with other iems 3 or 4 times the asking price maybe more? I already have the Oriveti New Primacy with a Effect Audio Aress ii upgrade cable and I feel for an upgrade I will have to spend at least 2 or 3 times more for a direct upgrade. If the Zs10 is as good or can compliment the New Primacy i'll get them



I don't think it's very fair to compare with IEMS 3-4x the price. But for its price, it's a very good buy. But if you're worried, I'd say wait for awhile. The price will drop eventually. It's still a good iem overall. One thing the ZS10 does much better than ZS6 is the mids. ZS6 has such recessed mids, now that I've listened to ZS10. It's much much better on the ZS10. But if you're a treble kind of guy, try the ZS6. I actually really like the sound they produce, and I haven't really experienced the sibilance issue much. It has a punchier bass than ZS10 as well but less deep. Overall I think ZS10 is an upgrade over ZS6, but it really depends on what kind of sound you're looking for.


----------



## nxnje

Yo guys,
is there someone of u who can compare KZ ZSR with MEMT x5?
I really wanna buy a pair of KZ ZSR but i'm suspicious about their comfort and their sound.. i wanna be sure it could be a step up from my memt x5.


----------



## Podster

nxnje said:


> Where did you find it? I really want one!



You should email them first but it looks like Gearbest may still have a pair or two hanging around, I was totally surprised I could find any! All the ones on e-Slay are the ampless Mini model. 

https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_259868.html


----------



## HardstyleLoco96

Comebackboy said:


> I don't think it's very fair to compare with IEMS 3-4x the price. But for its price, it's a very good buy. But if you're worried, I'd say wait for awhile. The price will drop eventually. It's still a good iem overall. One thing the ZS10 does much better than ZS6 is the mids. ZS6 has such recessed mids, now that I've listened to ZS10. It's much much better on the ZS10. But if you're a treble kind of guy, try the ZS6. I actually really like the sound they produce, and I haven't really experienced the sibilance issue much. It has a punchier bass than ZS10 as well but less deep. Overall I think ZS10 is an upgrade over ZS6, but it really depends on what kind of sound you're looking for.


I have comapred the Oriveti New Primacy to iems like the Campfire Audio Lyra ii, Sennheiser Ie800 and Beyerdynamic Xelento and prefer what I am hearing from the New Primacy so it is possible to find gems in the iem market you just need to look . I guess the Zs10 will be a miss for me unfortunately. But my search isn't over haha. Iems like the Ibasso IT04 and the new higher end Oriveti iem will be out soon but never know. Maybe someone, somewhere will give us a diamond instead of a gem . But i'll still wait on impressions and reviews and maybe I could use these as back up iems just in case anything happens.


----------



## Griffith (Apr 23, 2018)

After being subscribed to this thread for quite a few months now I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s a cycle that occurs in this thread:

- New KZ flavor-of-the-month IEM is rumored/announced
- Off the rails hype begins (“{X} killer” starts being thrown around)
- First people receive the unit and praise it immensely while others share links of the model. Baseless comparisons with higher end models appear
- The comparisons stop being made with other brands and become comparisons with the previous KZ IEMs to which the flavor-of-the-month model compares favorably
- Most people start getting the flavor-of-the-month and pointing out some blatant flaws that initial people that shared “impressions” failed to point out
- Most of the “early birds” disappear and the few that remain point out that it’s unfair to criticise them too harshly because of their price, even though the price gets higher with each new unit and competes with other IEMs that are very well regarded and not as flawed technically
- Eventually most fall into the consensus that the “flavor-of-the-month” sucks and the previous model was actually better
- New KZ flavor-of-the-month IEM is rumored/announced
- (repeat)

Now, I understand that this issue isn’t exclusive to this thread and even I’ve been an accomplice or unknowing-participant in this cycle but I think that it leads to a lot of misinformed regretful purchases. Given how much the high-end KZ models cost now (the ZS10 is currently going for close to $50 on ali) and given what types of earphones it’s going up against (Hifiman RE400, VSONIC VSD3S, Final Audio E2000 and Zero Audio Carbo Tenore, to name a few) I think that at this point in time and at this price range we need to be more critical of KZ and start being more suspicious of their quality.

When I jumped into the KZ bandwagon their IEMs were priced between $10ish and $20ish and at those price points I think that there are a lot of KZ earphones that offer nice sound whose flaws, at those prices, are much easier to excuse. At $50 and given some of the criticism I’ve seen even on this thread of the ZS10 I have to wonder if people wouldn’t be much better served with any of the more highly regarded alternatives I pointed out.


----------



## Otto Motor

Griffith said:


> After being subscribed to this thread for quite a few months now I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s a cycle that occurs in this thread:
> 
> - New KZ flavor-of-the-month IEM is rumored/announced
> - Off the rails hype begins (“{X} killer” starts being thrown around)
> - First people receive the unit and praise it immensely while others share links of the model. Baseless comparisons with higher end models appear


Not sure whether this is the only pattern - but it is certainly one of the patterns. The ZS10's enthusiasm was muffled here instantly by the first "Meh" opinions. This was probably too much for many people still waiting for delivery, some of which may have put their head in the sand for now. No official review has cropped up so far following the glaring one by the phonograph. Some regulars who have received their ZS10 recently have kept suspiciously silent about it.

I think the behaviour depends one how the hype is fuelled: by the company's advertisement ("500 drivers") or by some more or less competent reviews.
In the case of the ZS10, there will certainly be a denial phase for many: "it is actually not that bad".

See also here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2047#post-14176420


----------



## maxxevv

Check you seal of the eartips. There's definitely enough bass in the ZS10, at least to me.  
Else you're probably better off with a Rock Zircon.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> Not sure whether this is the only pattern - but it is certainly one of the patterns. The ZS10's enthusiasm was muffled here instantly by the first "Meh" opinions. This was probably too much for many people still waiting for delivery, some of which may have put their head in the sand for now. No official review has cropped up so far following the glaring one by the phonograph. *Some regulars who have received their ZS10 recently have kept suspiciously silent about it.*
> 
> I think the behaviour depends one how the hype is fuelled: by the company's advertisement ("500 drivers") or by some more or less competent reviews.
> In the case of the ZS10, there will certainly be a denial phase for many: "it is actually not that bad".
> ...



I've kept quiet because of the hilariously contradictory comments surrounding the ZS10. Nothing suspicious about it. I've been using it a lot since they arrived, likely a hell of a lot more than anyone that dropped their early comments. It's very different from their more recent hybrids in that it goes back to the original ZS series style of tuning, not the ED series' v-shaped sound that you'll find on the ZST, ZS5/6 and to a lesser extent the ZSR. That initial wow factor you get out of the box from the others due to their huge treble spike simply isn't a thing with the ZS10. 

: For those who disregard reviews from people who receive samples, like with the ZS5 I bought a ZS10 (the one I've been listening to for the last week), and the second one I have coming (which should be arriving today) is a sample. Hopefully they're different colors because as we all know from experience, the color of the shell completely changes the sound signature. KZ likes to keep you guessing like that. 

And that's all you get from me on the ZS10 until I drop the review. Peace out.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Some regulars who have received their ZS10 recently have kept suspiciously silent about it.



I listened a couple of  nights ago to the ZS10 belonging to my husband who received his the day before.  He received multiple items which is one reason that some "regulars" may not have said anything yet.  Personally I like to wait a few weeks before saying much.  I will say that I really enjoyed my listen with the ZS10.  I listened to several albums that I know well and was not aware of any glaring faults.  I enjoyed them enough that I want my own pair (in red) if and when there is a good sale price.  I don't HAVE to have them though... I have others that I also enjoy.. the ZS6, the ZSR, the ATR, the TRN v20,  the Fidue A73 (very new), the UiiSii CM5, the Ibasso IT01...and more...  I will say that I received the ZST recently and found it a bit harsh.  I need to give that one another try.  Those are all over ear style ones.  I also enjoy many of the type that just go straight in (single driver, dual driver, hybrid).. some are very inexpensive, some a bit more expensive like the Fidue A65. Maybe I am too easily pleased.  Maybe drivers have just gotten that good...



maxxevv said:


> Check you seal of the eartips. There's definitely enough bass in the ZS10, at least to me.
> Else you're probably better off with a Rock Zircon.



I had a good fit and seal with the ZS10 and also found there to be plenty of bass for me...including sub bass.  I found them to be very comfortable and I was happy with the stock medium tips that were already on them.  

So, I do not own a pair (yet), but there is one in the house


----------



## maxxevv

The only issue I had with the ZS10 was the somewhat short nozzle in relation to the bulbous overall shape. 

I had to use either the L eartips or T400 foam tips to keep them from dislodging from my ears and breaking its seal. 

Side issue but maybe relevant is that it loves a little bit of power. Plug it into my LG G6 straight, the bass was mildly bloomy, nothing serious but if you know what to listen for, its there. But just.  But if I invoke the 'external device' mode on the phone, the bass somehow sounds a little tighter. The 'bass bloom' or some call it 'bleed' is pretty much gone. I plug them into my DAC Amp that is supposedly rated at 1W @ 16 Ohms ( way more than almost any phone), none of that bass issue creeps up.  

Also, as shared in my previous impressions, there is a slight amount of sibilance straight out of the box. But it was already way, way better than the ZS6.  Gave it an overnight burn-in on pink noise. Its pretty hard to pick out the sibilance now unless the track inherently is sibilant. So much so, I tried it on my HD6XX, if I can pick up sibilance on my ZS10, I can pick that up on my HD6XX too... meaning its a track mastering issue.


----------



## hiflofi (Apr 23, 2018)

I've already cancelled my order for the ZS10 twice now. In my (crappy) opinion, there are too many differing opinions regarding the ZS10 to really make a decision whether it is a significant enough upgrade over the ZS6.

Some people have said the ZS10 is not as detailed as the ZS6. Maybe this is because the ZS10 has a darker sound and the highs don't pop as much? Then again, I've read foreign-language reviews that have said the ZS10 is every bit as capable of resolving details as the ZS6. Further, despite the ZS10 apparently having a case of rolled-off treble, wouldn't this actually be beneficial given how bright-sounding the ZS6 is?

My real gripe with the ZS6 isn't the recessed mids. It's the fact that the treble and bass overpowered the mids more than I'd like (it's _sort_ of different). Ideally, the ZS10 cuts back on the treble while bringing out the mids more. If anybody with the ZS10 can comment, that would be great.


----------



## mbwilson111

maxxevv said:


> Side issue but maybe relevant is that it loves a little bit of power. Plug it into my LG G6 straight, the bass was mildly bloomy, nothing serious but if you know what to listen for, its there. But just. But if I invoke the 'external device' mode on the phone, the bass somehow sounds a little tighter. The 'bass bloom' or some call it 'bleed' is pretty much gone. I plug them into my DAC Amp that is supposedly rated at 1W @ 16 Ohms ( way more than almost any phone), none of that bass issue creeps up.



I was using the ZS10 with my Cayin N3.  I am sure it would  have also sounded good with my Hidizs AP200 or my Opus #1.  If/when I get my own, I will  try it with my PC deskto setup.  Right now my Fidue A73 is hooked up to that... burning in with music playing in Foobar2000.

I have never listened with a phone.


----------



## maxxevv

Its the only specific reason why I bought the LG G6. To remove the need for a dedicated DAP on the move or out of the house.

Got a dedicated desktop DAC Headphone Amp coming in this week. Its supposed to have up to 4W on its balanced channels. 
Should be be interesting how the HD6XX sounds on that. And maybe if I can splice a balanced cable for the KZ 2 pin connectors....


----------



## Comebackboy (Apr 23, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> . It's very different from their more recent hybrids in that it goes back to the original ZS series style of tuning, not the ED series' v-shaped sound that you'll find on the ZST, ZS5/6 and to a lesser extent the ZSR. That initial wow factor you get out of the box from the others due to their huge treble spike simply isn't a thing with the ZS10.



I agree. There's no wow factor out of the box, unlike the ZS6 which has that popping treble which immediately hits you. The sound of ZS10 reminds me more of the ZS3 than the ZST, ZS5 or ZS6. I've probably gotten used to the ZS5 and ZS6 and thus not used to the sound of the ZS10. But I think overtime this might change, because I liked the ZS3 much more than the ZST back then. Don't get me wrong, it's still a solid iem, just sounds different.



hiflofi said:


> Some people have said the ZS10 is not as detailed as the ZS6. Maybe this is because the ZS10 has a darker sound and the highs don't pop as much? Then again, I've read foreign-language reviews that have said the ZS10 is every bit as capable of resolving details as the ZS6. Further, despite the ZS10 apparently having a case of rolled-off treble, wouldn't this actually be beneficial given how bright-sounding the ZS6 is?
> 
> My real gripe with the ZS6 isn't the recessed mids. It's the fact that the treble and bass overpowered the mids more than I'd like (it's _sort_ of different). Ideally, the ZS10 cuts back on the treble while bringing out the mids more. If anybody with the ZS10 can comment, that would be great.



ZS10 doesn't give you that popping sparkling sound, so it gives off the impression that it's less detailed than ZS6. But from what I can tell, it is as detailed, if not more detailed than the ZS6. You just don't really feel it, but you have to listen for it. ZS10 is much darker than the ZS6 so in a way in sounds congested and dull on certain tracks.

As for the treble, I didn't have any problems with the ZS6 to begin with so ZS10 is sort of a downgrade from ZS6 in this regard for me. It's not as sharp as the ZS6. But if you had issues with the treble on the ZS6, I think the ZS10 would suit you better

For the mids, the ZS10 definitely does better than the ZS6. I think this is because the highs and lows don't overpower the mids as much, because there is still a slightly 'distant' feeling from vocals, especially female vocals. I can't say for sure right now if the mids are more forward than the ZS6.


----------



## mattcooperkay (Apr 23, 2018)

[QUOTE="Comebackboy, post: 14193069, member: 385655] "It has a punchier bass than ZS10 as well but less deep.[/QUOTE]

I can't seem to get any 'punch' out of my ZS6's. They sound fairly muffled in the bass department to me.

Edit: Well, that quote didn't quite work...


----------



## Comebackboy

> I can't seem to get any 'punch' out of my ZS6's. They sound fairly muffled in the bass department to me.
> 
> Edit: Well, that quote didn't quite work...



That's strange. Most would agree that the bass on the ZS6 is fairly powerful. It hits hard but doesn't feel bloated/muffled to me.


----------



## mbwilson111

maxxevv said:


> Its the only specific reason why I bought the LG G6. To remove the need for a dedicated DAP on the move or out of the house.



But I never take a phone anywhere... maybe I am antisocial... just me and the music... no interruptions.  So happy to not carry one... they are way too big for my pockets . Phones are annoying.

My PC, laptop, android tablet,  old ipad, and several daps meet my needs.  Oh, and I have a tube amp next to my recliner in the living room ... with my best daps as a source.  I  have never used an iem or bud with that... just headphones.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 23, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> It's very different from their more recent hybrids in that it goes back to the original ZS series style of tuning, not the ED series' v-shaped sound that you'll find on the ZST, ZS5/6 and to a lesser extent the ZSR.



If your claim is right that different coloured plastic generates different sound, then there should be no surprise that the reported impressions by many are inconsistent. I used the UE900S, ZSR, and Fidue A65 as benchmarks.

My reporting is internally consistent as I had the measurements done after listening, and the former confirmed the latter (see my posts).

The FR curve of my black ZS10 could not be more V-shaped which confirms the recessed mids I reported. ZS5's FR curve is less V-shaped. Your ZS10 is reportedly not V-shaped. I am anxious to see the respective measurement to back up this claim.

The whole measurement post is here - nobody has superimposed FR graphs of different models to my knowledge, which is a basic requirement for comparison. Please also note the strict distinction between observation (objective) and interpretation (subjective).
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2081#post-14189853


----------



## basshead11

finally this post are gettting close to the final conclusion about zs sz10 

still waiting my pair (3weeks a go and reading this post since i bought them)

keep talking about them please


----------



## youngarthur

My ZS10 are in UK customs, so am expecting them in a few days.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> f your claim is right that different coloured plastic generates difference sound, then there should be no surprise that the reported impressions by many are inconsistent.



I assumed that he was joking.  For me , the color does make a _psychological_ difference


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> If your claim is right that different coloured plastic generates difference sound, then there should be no surprise that the reported impressions by many are inconsistent.



That statement was moist with sarcasm...


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been listening to my ZS10 today and I like the soundstage it is pretty wide for an iem. Once I found the correct tip for me the bass is rather good. I listened to some electronic music, progressive rock and a bit of folk. ZS10 coped with it all, driven by my LG V30 and Lotoo Paw 5000 mk2.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 23, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> That statement was moist with sarcasm...





mbwilson111 said:


> I assumed that he was joking.  For me , the color does make a _psychological_ difference


Well, you never know (see cable discussion; I subscribe to "BullshitAudio" on FB)! Penonaudio once claimed their golden SEAHF-AWK009 sounded better than their black one (different production runs). I could not hear a difference - they were both unsuited to my ears!

My curves are not laced with sarcasm, they are real. My V-shape is your V-shape. Where we differ is whether and how we like that or not. The ZS10 is not source sensitive in contrast to the ZS5. When amping the ZS10, the bass tightens a bit but the vocals don't come out any more. It is what it is!


----------



## Saoshyant

Kind of getting the feeling a few people in here need to chill out a bit and relax.


----------



## bsoplinger

mbwilson111 said:


> I assumed that he was joking.  For me , the color does make a _psychological_ difference





B9Scrambler said:


> That statement was moist with sarcasm...


As a person who suggested that color made a sonic difference, let me add 
And explicitly say that my comment was completely, totally soaking with sarcasm


----------



## Mellowship

I was aiming for a darker sound, so I just painted my ZST shells black.


----------



## mrmoto050

I've been listening to my ZS10's all morning using DX150 (lvl 55) as a source and balanced out and upgraded silver cables. Very pleasant so far seems to be more balanced in all freq (imo) wide soundstage and quite a bit of detail, highs a tad sibilant but not extreme. Good instrument placement, especially drums.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mellowship said:


> I was aiming for a darker sound, so I just painted my ZST shells black.



Nice.  Purple would also work.  Just never paint them yellow if you do not like piercing highs!


----------



## ivo001

Slater said:


> That's standard procedure. All you do is take a video with your phone, holding up 1 ear at a time to the phone microphone for 5-10 seconds.
> 
> What I do is prepare a few small notecards ahead of time (written in black marker so it's easy to read) "Right Side - Sound is OK", "Left Side - No Sound" (or "Broken" or something similar). This way there's no language barrier from me speaking, and they can use Google Translate to translate the text on the notecards if they need to.
> 
> ...



I've did this and now they have replied with these options:



> Please review our possible solutions below:
> 
> 1) Keep the item and accept a partial refund to your Gearbest Wallet as store credit.
> 
> ...



Anyone else had trouble getting it replaced for free? Thought it was a known issue that this batch has defaults on the left side. Would expect them to just replace it and ask for a refund at KZ?


----------



## mbwilson111

ivo001 said:


> I've did this and now they have replied with these options:
> .....
> Anyone else had trouble getting it replaced for free? Thought it was a known issue that this batch has defaults on the left side. Would expect them to just replace it and ask for a refund at KZ?



I would reply that this is unacceptable ... that they should just send you a new one  with no extra charge.  I think it is unfair for you to have to pay more.


----------



## Zerohour88

Griffith said:


> After being subscribed to this thread for quite a few months now I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s a cycle that occurs in this thread:
> 
> - New KZ flavor-of-the-month IEM is rumored/announced
> - Off the rails hype begins (“{X} killer” starts being thrown around)
> ...



people that fall victim to hype multiple times deserves it, honestly. Once, sure, but once you find that a "reviewer" that keeps hyping up stuff and then it crashes, better just take anything they say in the future with a bucketful of salt. As people have said multiple times, find a reviewer that resonates with what you prefer and see what he says of it

compare against pricier models? literally the post before you compared a $300 against the likes of Xelento and Lyra II (which I kinda liked, that damn low-end), so its not a KZ-exclusive problem

not sure if I don't spend enough time here to see what hype goes on when new models are announced/released, but all throughout the ZS10 announcement-release-first impression, all I've seen is a just "ok/it depends". It might be the case with ZS5/ZS6, though I wouldn't know. Things change, which is good.

People who buy stuff sight-unseen is gonna do it regardless (their money, they can do what they want with it)

Pricing-wise, if they're gonna price new models to compete with better offerings, too bad then. The problem is people rushing to buy the ZS10 even when it was 60 bux, which is absurd for KZ. We've seen the rate of improvement they're capable of and no way their next model was worth that. Its a catch-22 of needing people to buy stuff so they can improve on things but needing to get good products out so people actually buy it. Not that there's many truly horrible KZ product at each price point (ED12, we'll just pretend those don't exist), point is that KZ saw the chance to grab the mainstream with cramming multiple drivers on an IEM and ran with it.

tbh, commenting about issues like this in head-fi feels like preaching to the choir. But maybe there are people who looked around for info on a new model and stumbled here, so this one's for them.


----------



## loomisjohnson

B9Scrambler said:


> I've kept quiet because of the hilariously contradictory comments surrounding the ZS10. Nothing suspicious about it. I've been using it a lot since they arrived, likely a hell of a lot more than anyone that dropped their early comments. It's very different from their more recent hybrids in that it goes back to the original ZS series style of tuning, not the ED series' v-shaped sound that you'll find on the ZST, ZS5/6 and to a lesser extent the ZSR. That initial wow factor you get out of the box from the others due to their huge treble spike simply isn't a thing with the ZS10.
> 
> : For those who disregard reviews from people who receive samples, like with the ZS5 I bought a ZS10 (the one I've been listening to for the last week), and the second one I have coming (which should be arriving today) is a sample. Hopefully they're different colors because as we all know from experience, the color of the shell completely changes the sound signature. KZ likes to keep you guessing like that.
> 
> And that's all you get from me on the ZS10 until I drop the review. Peace out.


scrambler, you tease...this isn't "the apprentice"--just write the damn review


----------



## B9Scrambler (Apr 23, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> scrambler, you tease...this isn't "the apprentice"--just write the damn review



Okay. You convinced me.

Packaging & Accessories: 
Build: 
Cable: 
Ergonomics: 
Bass: 
Treble: 
Mids: 
Detail: 
Clarity: 
Sound stage: 
Imaging: 
Layering: 
Separation: 
Summary: 

The above review may be complete bull and is subject to change without notice. I should write all my reviews this way. So much more concise and to the point.



Spoiler: Ooooooo!


----------



## Adide

B9Scrambler said:


> Okay. You convinced me.
> 
> Packaging & Accessories:
> Build:
> ...



...and details?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Adide said:


> ...and details?



What more could anyone need? Emoticons are the future of reviewing.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> Okay. You convinced me.
> 
> Packaging & Accessories:
> Build:
> ...



I give this review


----------



## B9Scrambler

groucho69 said:


> I give this review



Thanks man! It took a lot of time and effort to choose just right emoticons, you know. They really needed to represent my innermost thoughts and feelings, and I think that was achieved.


----------



## Adide

B9Scrambler said:


> What more could anyone need? Emoticons are the future of reviewing.



Haha, I got you man. I was asking for an additional emote for details retrieval rating.

Cheers.


----------



## Bartig

nxnje said:


> Yo guys,
> is there someone of u who can compare KZ ZSR with MEMT x5?
> I really wanna buy a pair of KZ ZSR but i'm suspicious about their comfort and their sound.. i wanna be sure it could be a step up from my memt x5.


You should be suspicious about the comfort: you really have to get used to the fitting. Their bodies are big. However, the sound is a major step up. More roominess in the sound, a bigger bass, more detail overall.


----------



## Saoshyant

Adide said:


> Haha, I got you man. I was asking for an additional emote for details retrieval rating.
> 
> Cheers.



It was left out for a reason, there were no details.  ZS10 is a white noise headphone oddly enough.  Should help put you to sleep.  You just kind of get an ambient sense of what you're listening to.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Adide said:


> Haha, I got you man. I was asking for an additional emote for details retrieval rating.
> 
> Cheers.



Oh, my apologies! Added detail, clarity, aaaaand changed overall to summary with added emote. Cheers!


----------



## Adide (Apr 23, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Oh, my apologies! Added detail, clarity, aaaaand changed overall to summary with added emote. Cheers!



Now that's what I call a complete and succinct review.
Thank you.

PS' Won't be reading your complete review, I assume it will be boring .
Edit: clearly marked as a joke.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Adide said:


> Now that's what I call a complete and succinct review.
> Thank you.
> 
> PS' Won't be reading your complete review, I assume it will be boring.



I'll be shilling like crazy, so you can skip it  Gotta do what KZ FANBOIIIIII do.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks man! It took a lot of time and effort to choose just right emoticons, you know. They really needed to represent my innermost thoughts and feelings, and I think that was achieved.



Well it certainly shows.


----------



## stryed

B9Scrambler said:


> Okay. You convinced me.
> 
> Packaging & Accessories:
> Build:
> ...


Soundstage = meh?
I heard from earlier reports of improved soundstage over the KZR which is said to be better than the ZS5v2/ ZS6. Chinese whispers don't LIE!!!


----------



## DSebastiao

So, what's the consensus on the ZS10?


----------



## TheVortex (Apr 23, 2018)

Having received my ZS10 earlier today and from my testing for a couple of hours, I am happy with the sound signature.

To compare I have KZ ZS5 V1, ZSR, **** XBA 6 in 1, KZ ZST, KZ ES3 and a Xiaomi Pro HD which are great with the KZ starline tips.

Also have the TinAudio T2 which I haven't tried yet 

EDIT - I used to own a ZS6 but sold as I could not get on with the mega treble and the general sound signature of it.


----------



## phower

TheVortex said:


> Having received my ZS10 earlier today and from my testing for a couple of hours, I am happy with the sound signature.
> 
> To compare I have KZ ZS5 V1, ZSR, **** XBA 6 in 1, KZ ZST, KZ ES3 and a Xiaomi Pro HD which are great with the KZ starline tips.
> 
> ...


Even though ZS6 has elevated treble, it can be fixed easily with a PEQ. ZS6 is a better build and value for money. The elevated treble is useful while playing games and watching movies though not for music.


----------



## TLDRonin

DSebastiao said:


> So, what's the consensus on the ZS10?


There isn't one.


Majority have just started to receive theirs


----------



## TheVortex

phower said:


> Even though ZS6 has elevated treble, it can be fixed easily with a PEQ. ZS6 is a better build and value for money. The elevated treble is useful while playing games and watching movies though not for music.



I have tried it with a couple of movies and the bass on some parts was immense but in direct comparison with the ZSR and ZS5 it just sounded wrong like it was wired incorrectly or faulty .

I tried turning the 2 pins around on the cable in case it was wired backwards inside but it didn't really make any difference. Maybe I had a bad pair.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Okay. You convinced me.
> 
> Packaging & Accessories:
> Build:
> ...



This review is "Pod" approved


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> I listened a couple of  nights ago to the ZS10 belonging to my husband who received his the day before.  He received multiple items which is one reason that some "regulars" may not have said anything yet.  Personally I like to wait a few weeks before saying much. I will say that I really enjoyed my listen with the ZS10.  I listened to several albums that I know well and was not aware of any glaring faults.



Good one! I had mine full of cold viruses from the measurement friend and am following suit after these little rascals have hopefully died - racking up hours. My impressions change all the time so far without any direct comparison. Comparing with other iems, that's what I did first. 

A few things for sure: amping/source does not matter much (confirmed by impedance graph), included eartips are fine (for my ears), and they are no duds. The devil in the detail will have to be established.


----------



## Otto Motor

bsoplinger said:


> Hey KZ! You listening?
> 
> Just in case they do actually peruse this thread. Look at all the folks who like the tremble cannon ZS6 (and even the ZS5 v2). Then look at the folks who are, if not complaining, unhappy or underwhelmed with the bass and sub bass of the ZS10. How about producing a model with all the bass of the ZS6 with the crossover controlled sound of the mids and highs of the ZS10? I'd doesn't need to have 10 speakers, honestly, the count isn't important. Its the sound. You've shown from past models that you can tune IEMs and not just stick speakers in a shell. You've produced sound in portions of the spectrum in different models that people like. Just put it together.


Is there really no crossover in it? I was told that multi-driver iems almost always have a crossover. Hasn't somebody shown a photo of it?


----------



## bsoplinger

B9Scrambler said:


> Okay. You convinced me.
> 
> Packaging & Accessories:
> Build:
> ...


???


----------



## Podster

Just got my replacement red ZS6 from the ones I gave my buddy in Texas last month, still waiting on my Benjie S5 in the slate gray to arrive. Probably been sitting in a bin at the local post office for a couple weeks now since USPS has now decided to give China orders back seat service  Watching the news the other night and saw where orders and boxes upon boxes were just sitting in carts at the post office where the staff get to them when they get time!! Come on Benjie, I miss U


----------



## bsoplinger

Otto Motor said:


> Is there really no crossover in it? I was told that multi-driver iems almost always have a crossover. Hasn't somebody shown a photo of it?


The original ZS5 v1 didn't have a crossover. I believe that there's a simple single R/C network in the v2 and ZS6. That's a low or high pass filter, ie it would limit the dynamic drivers from playing highs and possibly mids depending on the values of the components or the BA from playing lows. I'm not convinced that there's any limitations on the range of the BA in them just because of how strong the highs are and I'm thinking its just to limit the DD. It'd be easy enough to calculate the frequency if you know the value of the components. Plug in the values into both the low and high pass filter calculations and see which value makes sense. The ZS10 has a circuit board although again all I've noticed on it was capacitors and resistors. But there's enough to imply that the upper range units are cut off from playing lower range etc. The mid BA can get both a low and high pass filter, etc. In other words finally a fully realized crossover.

All this is just my opinion. I'm too lazy to break open my KZ products to get the necessary values and trace the wiring to see which, if any, filters are wired to which drivers.


----------



## TLDRonin

Otto Motor said:


> Is there really no crossover in it? I was told that multi-driver iems almost always have a crossover. Hasn't somebody shown a photo of it?


Isn't he trying to say that they should add the ZS6 bass in addition to the crossover mids and highs the ZS10 has?


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> Just got my replacement red ZS6 from the ones I gave my buddy in Texas last month, still waiting on my Benjie S5 in the slate gray to arrive. Probably been sitting in a bin at the local post office for a couple weeks now since USPS has now decided to give China orders back seat service  Watching the news the other night and saw where orders and boxes upon boxes were just sitting in carts at the post office where the staff get to them when they get time!! Come on Benjie, I miss U…


Are you in Canada? I thought that's where there are containers upon containers of packages requiring hand sorting because of malformed addresses.


----------



## bsoplinger

TLDRonin said:


> Isn't he trying to say that they should add the ZS6 bass in addition to the crossover mids and highs the ZS10 has?


Yes that's exactly what I was trying to say.


----------



## WildSeven (Apr 23, 2018)

There are passive crossovers in the ZS6, look back in the thread someone already posted pictures showing that.

For me I am still waiting for the ZS10, but I've modded ZS6 and I have 2 more that's not modded for comparison.
All I can say is I love the stock signature and after modding they sound even better, very smooth and no fatigue for 8+ hours.

I wouldn't say is mandatory to mod but it surely improves the sound with someone with or without treble sensitive issue.

Mod: small foam/cotton/tissue (experiment to your liking) in each of the BA nozzle, don't cover the whole bore as that will muffle sound from DD and ruin your bass. CP100 Spin-Fit tip or Comply Foam tip (good seal is a must for good bass).


----------



## Slater (Apr 23, 2018)

mattcooperkay said:


> I can't seem to get any 'punch' out of my ZS6's. They sound fairly muffled in the bass department to me.



It's possible they are out of phase. Poor/muffled bass is a sign of that.


----------



## Saoshyant

As far as USPS with deliveries is concerned, I've noticed lately the wait's been increased.  I used to only wait 2 or so days from Chicago to KC, now it's usually around a week.  I wonder if this will affect Indonesian deliveries as well.


----------



## Strat Rider

B9Scrambler said:


> Okay. You convinced me.
> 
> Packaging & Accessories:
> Build:
> ...



Every time I see @B9Scrambler  photos, with that backdrop and the large looking drill bit in the background, I expect to see an iem with a gaping hole, and a BA half hanging out of the shell


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> I've did this and now they have replied with these options:
> 
> Anyone else had trouble getting it replaced for free? Thought it was a known issue that this batch has defaults on the left side. Would expect them to just replace it and ask for a refund at KZ?



Yeah, that's BS. I got my defective pair replaced for free. So did many, many others.

Gearbest was well aware of the defective ZS3 issue.

At this point I would PM @George-gearbest involved and ask for help.


----------



## bsoplinger (Apr 23, 2018)

Slater said:


> I can't seem to get any 'punch' out of my ZS6's. They sound fairly muffled in the bass department to me.
> 
> Edit: Well, that quote didn't quite work...
> 
> It's possible they are out of phase. Poor/muffled bass is a sign of that.


Yeah what he said. Throughout the long time I spent tip rolling on the ZS5 v2 I never had a case where there wasn't deep, strong bass. And the ZS6 seems identical in the bass driver design.

@Slater recently posted (a second time I think, someone posted it before and I think I gave a YouTube link for it) to a simple video speaker test. It has a left/right/center graphic then an in then out of phase section. As it plays a simple line progresses across the video and spoken word tells you what's happening. If you have miss wired earphones you'll hear the difference between in and out of phase. But opposite of what a correctly wired earphone would.


----------



## Podster (Apr 23, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> As far as USPS with deliveries is concerned, I've noticed lately the wait's been increased.  I used to only wait 2 or so days from Chicago to KC, now it's usually around a week.  I wonder if this will affect Indonesian deliveries as well.



Yeah, news talked about USPS workers just pilling China packages in carts mostly due to the sheer volumes of packages but some do have bad addressing as well.

They also said they better pick their game up because China orders are only going to grow. My attitude is a package is a package so get it to me as soon as you get it!

@bsoplinger , I'm in Arkansas


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Yeah what he said. Throughout the long time I spent tip rolling on the ZS5 v2 I never had a case where there wasn't deep, strong bass. And the ZS6 seems identical in the bass driver design.
> 
> @Slater recently posted (a second time I think, someone posted it before and I think I gave a YouTube link for it) to a simple video speaker test. It has a left/right/center graphic then an in then out of phase section. As it plays a simple line progresses across the video and spoken word tells you what's happening. If you have miss wired earphones you'll hear the difference between in and out of phase. But opposite of what a correctly wired earphone would.


----------



## Aparker2005

Podster said:


> Yeah, news talked about USPS workers just pilling China packages in carts mostly due to the sheer volumes of packages but some do have bad addressing as well.
> 
> They also said they better pick their game up because China orders are only going to grow. My attitude is a package is a package so get it to me as soon as you get it!
> 
> @bsoplinger , I'm in Arkansas



Hey another Arkansan!!


----------



## Saoshyant

I can't help but laugh at how people in Kansas pronounce your state.  Only been here a couple years, so it confused me at first.


----------



## riffrafff

Saoshyant said:


> I can't help but laugh at how people in Kansas pronounce your state.  Only been here a couple years, so it confused me at first.



How do they pronounce it?


----------



## Saoshyant

Instead of R Can Saw, they say it more like Our Kansas


----------



## stimuz

after finally getting a good fit with ZS10s I really enjoy them. They were actually slightly more awkward to fit for me than CM5s which is quite a feat.


----------



## Makahl

Guys, is there any "how to open zs3" on this thread? I've been searching but I just could find few Slater posts mentioning it's easy to open and some users checking the failed drivers inside. 

I got another pair and I want to add a BA (knowles rab) and replace the DD tube but I don't want to damage the shell or anything.


----------



## stryed

I like the ZS5v2 mainly because I don't mind losing it as much as my IT01 that I keep at home on most days. Should I go for the ZS6 or the ZS10 is my question...I would use them for commuting purposes and I didn't mind EQing the treble of the ZS5 as it responded nicely to a few db less and a punch of sub bass (down high bass, up the lowlow if that is even possible). Soundstage is what keeps me listening to the ZS5 as even the IT01 comes close, while the Swing and others fall short.

Rose forest thingy (north? black?) is on my radar as well but reviews and impressions have been missing these days!


----------



## Podster

Aparker2005 said:


> Hey another Arkansan!!



Actually an implant from Texas as of 1997, my punishment for moving here is both my boys are Hogs and that just slays this old Longhorn!


----------



## DSebastiao

Podster said:


> Just got my replacement red ZS6 from the ones I gave my buddy in Texas last month, still waiting on my Benjie S5 in the slate gray to arrive. Probably been sitting in a bin at the local post office for a couple weeks now since USPS has now decided to give China orders back seat service  Watching the news the other night and saw where orders and boxes upon boxes were just sitting in carts at the post office where the staff get to them when they get time!! Come on Benjie, I miss U



What are you using on the cable?


----------



## Podster

DSebastiao said:


> What are you using on the cable?



That would be the infamous (I may turn green) KZ Tri Braid SP cable of course.


----------



## riffrafff

Saoshyant said:


> Instead of R Can Saw, they say it more like Our Kansas



Huh.

I've lived in the midwest all my life, and I'm pretty certain they're just messin' with ya.


----------



## Saoshyant

Nope, just messing with Arkansas, I know exactly what they’re doing.


----------



## bhazard

Why so much ZS10 hate? They sound very good out of the box and are easily the best KZ I've heard so far. Soundstage and fun factor beat the ZSR by a noticeable margin. The extra bass is easily EQ'ed out if desired.

Drop the 2kHZ peak a little bit and these are well rounded for the under $40 I got them for. Sounds great with metal.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 23, 2018)

bhazard said:


> Why so much ZS10 hate? They sound very good out of the box and are easily the best KZ I've heard so far. Soundstage and fun factor beat the ZSR by a noticeable margin. The extra bass is easily EQ'ed out if desired.
> 
> Drop the 2kHZ peak a little bit and these are well rounded for the under $40 I got them for. Sounds great with metal.



I don't see much hate, just people who were expecting too much or too hyped. Also, hybrids are picky about the source due to output impedance, sometimes it's about synergy you're getting, sometimes it's just personal taste, bad fitting, bad QC... So if you happy with the sound that's what matters.the most.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 23, 2018)

Makahl said:


> I don't see much hate, just people who were expecting too much or too hyped. Also, hybrids are picky about the source due to output impedance, sometimes it's about synergy you're getting, sometimes it's just personal taste, bad fitting, bad QC... So if you happy with the sound that's what matters.the most.


I also don't see any "hate". It depends whether you see the glass half full or half empty. Some are fascinated by the progress over previous models  whereas others had higher expectations from 10 drivers. Overall, the opinions are positive - and when some people have lukewarm comments on partial aspects, that's not hate.

Again - increasing output impedance does not alter the FR curve of the ZS10 in the bass and mids fields and reduces treble (from impedance measurements). It is a well-behaved multidriver in terms of impedance.

Let's see how many will make the ZS10 their daily drivers and who is putting them into the drawer - that's the true test.


----------



## ShakyJake

bsoplinger said:


> The original ZS5 v1 didn't have a crossover. I believe that there's a simple single R/C network in the v2 and ZS6. That's a low or high pass filter, ie it would limit the dynamic drivers from playing highs and possibly mids depending on the values of the components or the BA from playing lows. I'm not convinced that there's any limitations on the range of the BA in them just because of how strong the highs are and I'm thinking its just to limit the DD. It'd be easy enough to calculate the frequency if you know the value of the components. Plug in the values into both the low and high pass filter calculations and see which value makes sense. The ZS10 has a circuit board although again all I've noticed on it was capacitors and resistors. But there's enough to imply that the upper range units are cut off from playing lower range etc. The mid BA can get both a low and high pass filter, etc. In other words finally a fully realized crossover.
> 
> All this is just my opinion. I'm too lazy to break open my KZ products to get the necessary values and trace the wiring to see which, if any, filters are wired to which drivers.



See my earlier post where I quote from an external KZ ZS6 mod:

"There is an appx. 7.5 Ohm series resistor on the 6.4mm "midrange" Driver, no crossover whatsoever on the 10mm "Woofer" and a appx. 1uF series capacitor for the dual BA "Tweeter" which is paralleled."

"After comparing the curves to the latest Olive/Welti target for headphones I decided to add an 18 Ohm resistor in series with the 1uF capacitor which constitutes the "crossover" of the high frequency drivers."​


----------



## HardstyleLoco96 (Apr 23, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> people that fall victim to hype multiple times deserves it, honestly. Once, sure, but once you find that a "reviewer" that keeps hyping up stuff and then it crashes, better just take anything they say in the future with a bucketful of salt. As people have said multiple times, find a reviewer that resonates with what you prefer and see what he says of it
> 
> compare against pricier models? literally the post before you compared a $300 against the likes of Xelento and Lyra II (which I kinda liked, that damn low-end), so its not a KZ-exclusive problem
> 
> ...


There's a difference between hype and true comparison though. Read the reviews of the Oriveti New Primacy myself and other few reviewers have compared the NP to other iems double or triple the price. Yes it's that good haha. Like the Earnine En120. You get best bang for the buck . Luckily the New Primacy is one of those iems, been out for a while now but unfortunately not many people know about it yet. It's a diamond hidden in so many gems.


----------



## slackerpo

please

zs10 vs fiio fh1

zs10 vs fiio f9 se and pro

the world needs to know


----------



## MDH12AX7

Podster said:


> Actually an implant from Texas as of 1997, my punishment for moving here is both my boys are Hogs and that just slays this old Longhorn!



You guys will hate this.... Boomer Sooner. I'm your neighbor as well.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 24, 2018)

slackerpo said:


> please
> 
> zs10 vs fiio fh1
> 
> ...







Fiio FH1:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-fh1-dual-hybrid-iem.22884/

Fiio F9 Pro:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-f9-pro-hybrid-triple-driver-iem.22784/


----------



## bsoplinger

ShakyJake said:


> See my earlier post where I quote from an external KZ ZS6 mod:
> 
> "There is an appx. 7.5 Ohm series resistor on the 6.4mm "midrange" Driver, no crossover whatsoever on the 10mm "Woofer" and a appx. 1uF series capacitor for the dual BA "Tweeter" which is paralleled."
> 
> "After comparing the curves to the latest Olive/Welti target for headphones I decided to add an 18 Ohm resistor in series with the 1uF capacitor which constitutes the "crossover" of the high frequency drivers."​


That's helpful. My back of the envelope calculation says that the "midrange" driver will be 6 or 7 dB down, as in quieter, compared to the other speakers. The 1μF puts the high pass value at 2 kHz for a 64 ohm speaker or 500 Hz for 16 or 250 for 8 but I have no idea of the inductance of a BA outside its designed frequency range. But it shows that there isn't much crossover design behind the ZS6 which was my primary point


----------



## DeltaAudio (Apr 24, 2018)

Just a heads up, the Trn v30 will be a quad-driver hybrid available in a few days


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

I know there are many people in here who would like to see the return of the ZS5 v1. I think we can all sign an online petition to make KZ see that, after all they reacted so strongly to a dumb youtube video.


----------



## ShakyJake

bsoplinger said:


> That's helpful. My back of the envelope calculation says that the "midrange" driver will be 6 or 7 dB down, as in quieter, compared to the other speakers. The 1μF puts the high pass value at 2 kHz for a 64 ohm speaker or 500 Hz for 16 or 250 for 8 but I have no idea of the inductance of a BA outside its designed frequency range. But it shows that there isn't much crossover design behind the ZS6 which was my primary point



Yes, the same guy in a later post went ahead and redid the entire crossover design for the KZ ZS6:

"So, spend some time on the tuning mission...​
My final take is simple:
1) Wire the two BA tweeters in series, this cuts output by 6dB and quadruples the impedance in the treble, making the overall impedance of the IEM more resistive.
2) Change the crossover cap for the BA tweeters to Panasonic ECPU 680nF/16V. This is larger than what you would expect from the impedance change (in theory 0.25uF should be used), however I like the way it sounds.
3) Change the crappy resistor to a Melf type replacement.
4) Use comply Foam tips with earwax screen or use the stick-on filters sold as replacements for HiFiman RE-400 with any tips you like.

The result to my ears deserves the moniker "Monitor". Next to it a 200 USD 4-Driver IEM widely well reviewed sounds muddy, with overblown bass and a total lack of midrange, making what I'd call "Hilarious dummy sound". "
​


----------



## snip3r77

Plugged in my zs5v1. It needs a lot of power even when I'm using x7 mk2


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Guys, is there any "how to open zs3" on this thread? I've been searching but I just could find few Slater posts mentioning it's easy to open and some users checking the failed drivers inside.
> 
> I got another pair and I want to add a BA (knowles rab) and replace the DD tube but I don't want to damage the shell or anything.



I wouldn't even bother. KZ is releasing a ZS4 (hybrid ZS3) very soon:


----------



## rfsux (Apr 24, 2018)

I don't get it. KZ's acoustic director has "twenty years of experience" adjusting headphones, yet makes the $50 ZS10 more V-shaped than the ZS6. Why not aim for neutral?


----------



## CoiL (Apr 24, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *KZ ZS10 - MEASUREMENTS AND COMPARISONS: FREQUENCY RESPONSES AND IMPEDANCE*
> 
> _*DISCLAIMER:* All measurements by a friend of mine - using my iems. He lives only 50 m upstream along our joint gin & tonic pipeline. The following will be a shaken (not stirred) mix of his and my ideas and comments._
> 
> ...





Otto Motor said:


> I would recommend the ZSR. Reasoning:
> 1. They are universally liked
> 2. They have essentially the same fit as the ZS3
> 3. They are really good sounding
> ...


I think I need to try out ZSR at some point (like the red/white and wish to get idea about IT04 similar fit and shape). Those graphs look pretty good exept that sharp slope.


stryed said:


> I like the ZS5v2 mainly because I don't mind losing it as much as my IT01 that I keep at home on most days. Should I go for the ZS6 or the ZS10 is my question...I would use them for commuting purposes and I didn't mind EQing the treble of the ZS5 as it responded nicely to a few db less and a punch of sub bass (down high bass, up the lowlow if that is even possible). Soundstage is what keeps me listening to the ZS5 as even the IT01 comes close, while the Swing and others fall short.
> 
> Rose forest thingy (north? black?) is on my radar as well but reviews and impressions have been missing these days!


I should get my Rose North Forest (red) very soon. I also have IT01 and ZS5v1 to compare. ZS5v1 soundstage is crazy good and level of open-back HPs. IT01 is also very good in soundstage and noticeably above average but still less than ZS5v1.

Will post some impressions about RNF here too soon, as they are cheap and should be tuned very good according to graphs and impressions - should bring KZ "train" down when we talk about price vs. value vs. SQ. I`ll know soon if it is so...


----------



## base08

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> I know there are many people in here who would like to see the return of the ZS5 v1. I think we can all sign an online petition to make KZ see that, after all they reacted so strongly to a dumb youtube video.



Yes let's do it! I would like to get a zs5 v1! They listen (read) this thread... KZ ZS5 OG I would call it...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@CoiL @Otto Motor 

Some say that KZ ZS10 are mid centric and some say it is V shape..


Well thanks for graph..

KZ has to move from inconsistency and V graphs, that's for sure otherwise they will have hard time in future.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Well, you can modify KZ zs6 to ZS5 as the vent for previous BA is still empty..

Just take that one BA out and put it there..

Simple


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 24, 2018)

Since I've been enjoying my ZSR's the last few weeks I haven't shown much love to some of my favorite KZ's.  

I just spent the last four hours enjoying and comparing the ZS5(i), ZSR & ZS6 and all I can say is that I friggin' love my ZS6. All three are great IEMs and they each have their own sense of character but the ZS6 just ticks all of my boxes:
Clarity 
Resolution 
Layering 
Separation 
Imaging
Clear definition between sub-bass and mid-bass
Micro-detail to spare
Centered midrange.

While they are vivid and transparent they equally deliver a great sense of impact in the lower frequencies and all the while the triple-vented faceplates just dissolve any sense of masking. You simply hear...... everything. Delivering an airy presentation while simultaneously delivering a full-bodied and highly defined lower frequency range is what puts them over the top for me. 

......just a sobering reminder of why I sought to have more than one pair. KZ really did a great job with the ZS6.

All I need now is a cable (that won't suffer discoloration) to do it aesthetic justice.


----------



## Podster

Well gee Doc, if you would have just asked I would have told you; what's that famous song............... ZS6 are "Still the one"  

In Pod's HO they were the right move sans the artistic thievery Been playing my gray ones on my new AK Jr. Quite a bit and SQ wise this rig can really test some rigs of much higher cost!


----------



## DSebastiao

Podster said:


> That would be the infamous (I may turn green) KZ Tri Braid SP cable of course.



Nah, the thing wrapped around it.


----------



## bsoplinger

rfsux said:


> I don't get it. KZ's acoustic director has "twenty years of experience" adjusting headphones, yet makes the $50 ZS10 more V-shaped than the ZS6. Why not aim for neutral?


Because in general big V signatures means big as in good reviews. There are tons of people who love extra bass. Then add in that boosting highs makes a good initial impression of better compared to highs without the boost. Equals V sounds good for a quick listen.


----------



## bsoplinger

DSebastiao said:


> Nah, the thing wrapped around it.


Do you mean the grey cable wrap?

If so, here's some places to get it

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1952#post-14117596


----------



## Podster (Apr 24, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Nah, the thing wrapped around it.



@bsoplinger nailed it and he gives the options of many colors, mine were on a roll from Home Depot for just a few dollars for like a million (OK, so I may have exaggerated that a little) but more than I could use in a lifetime because i cut mine at least 3 times per wrap. I use these with the tear drop end on them

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detai...VXbbACh2aLQliEAYYAiABEgJtKvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

@MDH12AX7 , hate is such a strong word MD. OK State Cowboys keep sending sending lit to my 17 year old but I told him I'd totally dis-own if he steps foot into OK It's bad enough he may be a Hog but nothing from the Texas Top Hat LOL

Man, talk about a glorious SS, this rig right here gets dang close to my Opy#1/R1 combo


----------



## Mallo

I have just received a kz Bluetooth module for my zst/es3, the package says Bluetooth 5.0, is it real?


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 25, 2018)

Podster said:


> Well gee Doc, if you would have just asked I would have told you; what's that famous song............... ZS6 are "Still the one"
> 
> In Pod's HO they were the right move sans the artistic thievery Been playing my gray ones on my new AK Jr. Quite a bit and SQ wise this rig can really test some rigs of much higher cost!





Podster said:


> Man, told about a glorious SS, this rig right here gets dang close to my Opy#1/R1 combo



Apparently,  I've succumbed to distraction after distraction because I still haven't ordered those Pewter/Gray ZS6's.....yet. I am definitely looking forward to the ZS10 and ED15 but the Pewter/Gray ZS6 is still quite high on my list as well. 

One of my "distractions has been determining whether or not I build/fashion my own cables for my ZS6's and some of the newer models I know I'll be adding to my collection. Coil really opened my eyes to the possibilities when he made the suggestion a while back about building his own cables.



 

 

 

I'm still a bit miffed that KZ didn't put more effort in to designing a cable for their flagship IEM but I can either continue to whine about it or I can get to work with my own solution. 

Whining is useless and unproductive, so......
$6.55 per meters (3+ feet)




$7.27 per 3.5mm jack


----------



## mrmoto050

Mallo said:


> I have just received a kz Bluetooth module for my zst/es3, the package says Bluetooth 5.0, is it real?


open it and find out. Yes it is real , a nice gift.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Apparently,  I've succumbed to distraction after distraction because I still haven't ordered those Pewter/Gray ZS6's.....yet. I am definitely looking forward to the ZS10 and ED15 but the Pewter/Gray ZS6 is still quite high on my list as well.
> 
> One of my "distractions has been determining whether or not I build/fashion my own cables for my ZS6's and some of the newer models I know I'll be adding to my collection. Coil really opened my eyes to the possibilities when he made the suggestion a while back about building his own cables.
> 
> ...



Sweet Doc, I may have to contract you in the future and Coil is an awesome tinkerer for sure Yeah, the pewter gray has become my fave and I still find the red to be blingy but I'm less ear flash and more ear cool Still figure I have time on the two new models and I have a pretty expensive trip coming up taking my 17 year old to NYC to compete in the Genius Olympiad but once I recover from that hit I'm sure I'll lose my mind and come roaring back


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 24, 2018)

Podster said:


> Sweet Doc, I may have to contract you in the future and Coil is an awesome tinkerer for sure Yeah, the pewter gray has become my fave and I still find the red to be blingy but I'm less ear flash and more ear cool Still figure I have time on the two new models and I have a pretty expensive trip coming up taking my 17 year old to NYC to compete in the Genius Olympiad but once I recover from that hit I'm sure I'll lose my mind and come roaring back



NYC.....my old stomping ground. 

"Genius Olympiad", huh? Well........we must be doing something right, Pod. My boy is literally an astrophysicist (in training) and sounds like your 17yr old is well on his way. 

Which of your KZ's does he like the most?

Hahaa.....and which ones are off-limits?


----------



## nxnje

Bartig said:


> You should be suspicious about the comfort: you really have to get used to the fitting. Their bodies are big. However, the sound is a major step up. More roominess in the sound, a bigger bass, more detail overall.



Sincerely, i have some doubts about the shape as i had a pair of kz zs3 in the past (like 6 months ago) and i shipped it back to amazon (i had bought it there as i felt something would go wrong, and in fact the shape wasn't for me) because they were not comfy to my ears.

The shape was not bad but the shell was way bigger than i expected and my ear got sick after like 10 mins after wearing them.
I appreciated their sound so, but not the way they fitted in my ear.

The zsr as i can see shares the same shell (or quite similar) of zs3 and i'm worried about it.
Could someone please give me an opinion about it? I really wanna give them a try but i'm afraid they're like the zs3 and will not maybe be comfy..


----------



## Superluc

nxnje said:


> The zsr as i can see shares the same shell (or quite similar) of zs3 and i'm worried about it.
> Could someone please give me an opinion about it? I really wanna give them a try but i'm afraid they're like the zs3 and will not maybe be comfy..


Try to understand... no one can know how they fit on you, and we don't know what part of the ZS3's shell makes you uncomfortable.

ZS3's shell is mostly considered comfy, and the ZSR is bigger, especially the nozzle.

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsr-vs-kz-zs3-comparison/

If you have that kind of doubt, it's better to buy something smaller, maybe worn with the cable down.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 24, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I think I need to try out ZSR at some point (like the red/white and wish to get idea about IT04 similar fit and shape). Those graphs look pretty good exept that sharp slope.



All three, ZS5, ZSR, and ZS10 sound interesting in comparison - with the audioquest dragonfly/amp. This is a real test for the ZS10. ZS5 sounds wide, open and homogenous, ZSR has thicker mids, and the ZS10...certainly not like the ZS5.


----------



## B9Scrambler

nxnje said:


> Sincerely, i have some doubts about the shape as i had a pair of kz zs3 in the past (like 6 months ago) and i shipped it back to amazon (i had bought it there as i felt something would go wrong, and in fact the shape wasn't for me) because they were not comfy to my ears.
> 
> The shape was not bad but the shell was way bigger than i expected and my ear got sick after like 10 mins after wearing them.
> I appreciated their sound so, but not the way they fitted in my ear.
> ...



If you had issues with the ZS3 give the ZSR a pass. It's even larger with the addition of a 6mm nozzle that adds another possible layer of issues for some.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 24, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> @CoiL @Otto Motor
> 
> Some say that KZ ZS10 are mid centric and some say it is V shape..
> 
> ...



My ZS10 is strongly V-shaped. I have test tracks like this one:


First the rather neutral piano, which sounds similar independent of iem (ZSR, ZS5, ZS10), then the voice comes in like a surprise - and should be forward, deep and immersive creeping up on you. Third, the bass section cuts in. In the ZS10, the voice is very well rendered and natural sounding, but it does not stick out enough compared to the ZSR, my liking, and other (premium) iems...and it gets then somewhat challenged by the warm bass section. I don't know how the online quality compares to my CD rip, though...voice comes out nicely on my Macbook Air.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Since I've been enjoying my ZSR's the last few weeks I haven't shown much love to some of my favorite KZ's.
> 
> I just spent the last four hours enjoying and comparing the ZS5(i), ZSR & ZS6 and all I can say is that I friggin' love my ZS6. All three are great IEMs and they each have their own sense of character but the ZS6 just ticks all of my boxes:
> Clarity
> ...


What is a good test track for layering (e.g. distinguishing distance of different artists from the microphone)? I am still undecided which one is technically better, the ZS10 or the ZS6 (the trees in the ZS10 are excellent, the question is whether they make for a good forest; the ZSR makes a great forest out of lesser trees). And which one sounds more natural, the warmer ZSR or the ZS6?

Maybe I should get a job.


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> I wouldn't even bother. KZ is releasing a ZS4 (hybrid ZS3) very soon:



I'm really excited about this model even though this model will be like a ZST/ES3 formula in ZS3 housing. However, I got another pair for ~$8 and I have a RAB pair in the drawer which I won't use anymore, so my idea is cutting off the red tubing before reaching the end and attaching a 3x2 PVC tube and placing this full range BA with a tube and a green damper near the nozzle. Not sure whether I should wire them parallel or directly on the 2pin socket, is there a difference?



Spoiler


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 24, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> What is a good test track for layering (e.g. distinguishing distance of different artists from the microphone)? I am still undecided which one is technically better, the ZS10 or the ZS6 (the trees in the ZS10 are excellent, the question is whether they make for a good forest; the ZSR makes a great forest out of lesser trees). And which one sounds more natural, the warmer ZSR or the ZS6?
> 
> Maybe I should get a job.








I'll add more later but this is a great primer.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> NYC.....my old stomping ground.
> 
> "Genius Olympiad", huh? Well........we must be doing something right, Pod. My boy is literally an astrophysicist (in training) and sounds like your 17yr old is well on his way.
> 
> ...



Be my first time there Doc and really looking forward to it, will be at SUNY in Oswego from Monday to Friday afternoon for the competition. They are taking us to Niagra on one of those days then on Friday I have a rental car to drive he and I into NYC as we are staying right in Times Square so we can take the subway to all the places we are going to try and squeeze in for the weekend

The older one has a pair of ED9's but made a big "What are Those" when he saw my black ZSR's He's actually on his second pair of Trinity Techne's, still has no respect for care and maintenance, wads them up, sleeps in them and rolls over them I'll never give him anything too expensive!

The baby absolutely loves his ED12's (he sports them to his friends ever since I put a tri-braid cable on them) and does not care what anyone else thinks of them His backups are TFZ Series 1's in the gloss red.


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> …


Is that the infamous braided cable that turns green, but it isn't green?


----------



## bsoplinger

Otto Motor said:


> My ZS10 is strongly V-shaped. I have test tracks like this one:
> 
> 
> First the rather neutral piano, which sounds similar independent of iem (ZSR, ZS5, ZS10), then the voice comes in like a surprise - and should be forward, deep and immersive creeping up on you. Third, the bass section cuts in. In the ZS10, the voice is very well rendered and natural sounding, but it does not stick out enough compared to the ZSR, my liking, and other (premium) iems...and it gets then somewhat challenged by the warm bass section. I don't know how the online quality compares to my CD rip, though...voice comes out nicely on my Macbook Air.



This sounds like an interesting track. Unfortunately I'm in the USA and soundcloud.com says track not available in my area. Can you give the artist and title so I can see what I can find online?



DocHoliday said:


> …
> 
> I'll add more later but this is a great primer.



Really? The Jackson 5? Talk about cheese!


----------



## nxnje

Superluc said:


> Try to understand... no one can know how they fit on you, and we don't know what part of the ZS3's shell makes you uncomfortable.
> 
> ZS3's shell is mostly considered comfy, and the ZSR is bigger, especially the nozzle.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the answer.
Anyway, i will try buying again the zs3 now that i have foam tips.. maybe i'll give it a try again.
By the way i wanted to try zsr as i saw online it has the perfect sound for me, i already have a pair of cable-down headphones (memt x5) and i want something with the same signature with the cable around the ear.


----------



## Podster (Apr 24, 2018)

@bsoplinger 

It's starting to show some tarn but I'm treating it like a fine wine and hoping it does not turn before it's time, I can really tell holding my old ones against the brand new one I got the other day with my new red ZS6's. IMHO they start their decline the minute you take them out of KZ's little white box they come in


----------



## DocHoliday

nxnje said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> Anyway, i will try buying again the zs3 now that i have foam tips.. maybe i'll give it a try again.
> By the way i wanted to try zsr as i saw online it has the perfect sound for me, i already have a pair of cable-down headphones (memt x5) and i want something with the same signature with the cable around the ear.




I'd go straight for the ZSR because foam eartips will suck the life out of the already attenuated treble on the ZS3 and the entire presentation will be a muddy nightmare.


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, anyone with a really green cable and a green ZSR?  Curious if they’d compliment each other


----------



## Otto Motor

bsoplinger said:


> This sounds like an interesting track. Unfortunately I'm in the USA and soundcloud.com says track not available in my area. Can you give the artist and title so I can see what I can find online?
> 
> 
> Really? The Jackson 5? Talk about cheese!


Here are two very useful audio files for testing earphones (iTunes store format) - link active for 1 week: https://goo.gl/7WwB2K

Track 1: Housemartins - Build (cymbals indicate whether iem is a chainsaw; bassline at the beginning helps quantifying bass tightness and extension)

Track 2: Hildegard Knef - Herr Kalecke (starts with rather unsuspicious piano; setting in voice should be surprisingly forward with much depth, and haunting; the following bass section should not drown voice and piano; voice should float on top of them) [_Mr. Kalecke is the owner of a graveyard nursery and knows the fate of all the dead people whose graves his is servicing_].


----------



## Superluc

DocHoliday said:


> I'd go straight for the ZSR because foam eartips will suck the life out of the already attenuated treble on the ZS3 and the entire presentation will be a muddy nightmare.


I agree. Foams don't pair well with the ZS3.


----------



## Slater

Mallo said:


> I have just received a kz Bluetooth module for my zst/es3, the package says Bluetooth 5.0, is it real?



It would only truely be BT 5.0 if your phone (for example) also uses 5.0.

BT is backwards compatible, so if your phone is BT 4.2, then a BT 5.0 peripheral will negotiate as BT 4.2

While BT 5.0 is rare at the moment, here's a few phones that currently have BT 5.0:

iPhone 8
iPhone 8 Plus
iPhone X
Samsung Galaxy S8

More phones are supposed to come with BT 5.0 later in 2018.


----------



## Slater (Apr 24, 2018)

Makahl said:


> I'm really excited about this model even though this model will be like a ZST/ES3 formula in ZS3 housing. However, I got another pair for ~$8 and I have a RAB pair in the drawer which I won't use anymore, so my idea is cutting off the red tubing before reaching the end and attaching a 3x2 PVC tube and placing this full range BA with a tube and a green damper near the nozzle. Not sure whether I should wire them parallel or directly on the 2pin socket, is there a difference?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Yeah, that in theory should work. You may not even need a damper at all, especially if you pick a good BA. KZ has yet to use a damper on any of their BAs. In fact, most low to mid-range ChiFi IEMs don't use dampers. It also may not be needed since you're planning a single-BA setup anyways.

As far as wiring, you would want to test out each way - parallel and series. Each way will affect the total impedance, which will in turn affect the overall sound. One way is not necessarily any superior to another, so you'd just want to listen to each and see which one sounds better to you. You could also add in a resistor to act as a bandpass filter (ie crossover). Not necessary, but they are small and there's plenty of room in the ZS3 shell. You would have to do calculations to determine what value you would need (depending on what frequency you're trying to set the filtering at).


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> Yeah, that in theory should work. You may not even need a damper at all, especially if you pick a good BA. KZ has yet to use a damper on any of their BAs. In fact, most low to mid-range ChiFi IEMs don't use dampers. It also may not be needed since you're planning a single-BA setup anyways.
> 
> As far as wiring, you would want to test out each way - parallel and series. Each way will affect the total impedance, which will in turn affect the overall sound. One way is not necessarily any superior to another, so you'd just want to listen to each and see which one sounds better to you. You could also add in a resistor to act as a bandpass filter (ie crossover). Not necessary, but they are small and there's plenty of room in the ZS3 shell. You would have to do calculations to determine what value you would need (depending on what frequency you're trying to set the filtering at).



Thank you for the insight thoughts! I think only resistors merely lower the volume, you need to add capacitors and modeling an acoustic low pass filter accurately seems not that easy and I was reading they introduce phase offsets so it's all about tradeoffs. I got awesome results using micropore tape acting like a "low pass" just to keep that sub-bass from ZS3 which a BA can't reach while the BA does the rest. Indeed dampers aren't really necessary but may I will add one to test or just some acoustic material to refine the 2kHz - 3kHz peak typical from this type of BA. 

However, the hardest part for me is opening the shell I'm used to open MX500 shell and some IEMs but they're rather easy, do you have any tip or method to open the ZS3?


----------



## Slater (Apr 24, 2018)

Makahl said:


> Thank you for the insight thoughts! I think only resistors merely lower the volume, you need to add capacitors and modeling an acoustic low pass filter accurately seems not that easy and I was reading they introduce phase offsets so it's all about tradeoffs. I got awesome results using micropore tape acting like a "low pass" just to keep that sub-bass from ZS3 which a BA can't reach while the BA does the rest. Indeed dampers aren't really necessary but may I will add one to test or just some acoustic material to refine the 2kHz - 3kHz peak typical from this type of BA.
> 
> However, the hardest part for me is opening the shell I'm used to open MX500 shell and some IEMs but they're rather easy, do you have any tip or method to open the ZS3?



You hit the nail on the head; experimentation will be the key to good results. A lot of people don't have the patience for it, but I find modding fun and rewarding.

As far as opening the shell, I recommend a spudger tool, metal guitar pick, or even a non-serrated butter knife. Heat the shell with low heat from a hair dryer. Then gently pry along the seam between the 2 halves of the shell. It will eventually come apart.

To put the shell back together, you'll need to glue it back together along the seams. I recommend UV adhesive (such as Lazer Bond). All you need is a very thin bead spread along the seam (after the shell has been put back together, not before). UV glue will only cure if the UV light can shine on the glue. If that doesn't make sense, let me know and I will draw you a diagram of what I mean. Also, do not use super glue.

I hope that all helps - good luck and remember to have fun! You're only out a few dollars if you mess up, and it will be a learning experience to help you get even better by improving your technique.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Any tips for taking apart the ZS5 v2?  I put heatshrink over the nozzle and it's still a bit too bright for me so I might want to fiddle around with the drivers themselves.


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> Any tips for taking apart the ZS5 v2?  I put heatshrink over the nozzle and it's still a bit too bright for me so I might want to fiddle around with the drivers themselves.



The stuff you'll want to tinker with as far as the brightness is all right in the nozzle on the ZS5 v2 (ie the BAs). By simply removing the nozzle mesh, you'll have easy access to both BAs, where you can do all sorts of mods - sealing with Bluetac, covering with a thin strip of micropore tape (teabag, etc), foam mods, etc.

The only thing inside the shell would be the wiring and the crossover components.


----------



## TLDRonin

bsoplinger said:


> This sounds like an interesting track. Unfortunately I'm in the USA and soundcloud.com says track not available in my area. Can you give the artist and title so I can see what I can find online?
> 
> 
> Really? The Jackson 5? Talk about cheese!


You can make out the name in the blurry background; it says 
*Hildegard Knef – Herr Kalecke An Der Ecke*


----------



## youngarthur

ZS10 arrived today, and given a couple of hours,comparing to ZS6.First impressions, the 10 has brighter treble, instrument separation,not quite as good, but better timbre, bass, sub bass around the same.  Just very first thoughts, and old ears.


----------



## harriss

i have received my first KZ ZS10 and my APTX-HD (CSR8675 chip) bluetooth module . will share my thoughts about it later


----------



## Otto Motor

youngarthur said:


> ZS10 arrived today, and given a couple of hours,comparing to ZS6.First impressions, the 10 has brighter treble, instrument separation,not quite as good, but better timbre, bass, sub bass around the same.  Just very first thoughts, and old ears.


Where in NE Scotland? Thurso?


----------



## HungryPanda

Just received my ED15's, KZ certainly delivered here on first listen


----------



## Otto Motor

*MUSIC SAMPLE FOR MAPPING THE SOUNDSTAGE*

Here an incredible track to map the soundstage with your earphones: a binaural or "dummy head"  recording ("Kunstkopfstereophonie", a short-lieved German invention). Microphones were placed into the ears of a dummy head to come as close to human perception as possible. This produces an unbelievable surround sound.

The ZS10 excels on this one (its hundreds of drivers do an excellent job) - an unreal sonic experience. This silly track is also highly addictive.

Download link valid for one week: https://goo.gl/fHrnyL


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 25, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Just received my ED15's, KZ certainly delivered here on first listen


Huuuuuge however reasonably firm bass to my ears. Compare vocals to the early ED series models. It is also interesting to compare the overall image to the ZS10's: the one of the ZS10 is biiiiiiiiig in comparison for my perception  - that's what you expect from the additional drivers and the huge resonance bodies/housings.

To me, the ED15 plays in the league of the Urbanfun Hifi. A good one!

Have fun!


----------



## bhazard

The Ergonomics of the ZS10 could have been better. Doesn't stay in my ears during my commute walk. It sounds good out of the box, but needs EQ to dial back midbass and bump low mids, and cut 2kHz a bit.

I'll have to see if the silver cable makes any changes to the sound. Doubt it.


----------



## manukmanohar

harriss said:


> i have received my first KZ ZS10 and my APTX-HD (CSR8675 chip) bluetooth module . will share my thoughts about it later


which is the apt x hd module?


----------



## C2thew

harriss said:


> i have received my first KZ ZS10 and my APTX-HD (CSR8675 chip) bluetooth module . will share my thoughts about it later



do you have a link to the bluetooth module that you bought?  I'm curious which one you purchased


----------



## deptofrichie

bhazard said:


> The Ergonomics of the ZS10 could have been better. Doesn't stay in my ears during my commute walk. It sounds good out of the box, but needs EQ to dial back midbass and bump low mids, and cut 2kHz a bit.
> 
> I'll have to see if the silver cable makes any changes to the sound. Doubt it.



I had the same issue. tried the different size KZ star tips and spin fits and they would not stay in my ears. Changed to Symbio MandarinE tips and problem solved.


----------



## HungryPanda

While walking last night wearing ZS10 as it was windy the noise from the wind hitting the shells was most annoying


----------



## bsoplinger

I bought this LP shortly after it was released. Missed out on the short lived CD release. However someone was nice enough to post a YouTube video of it. The audio is supposed to be uncompressed according to the poster. Its from a BBC documentary on the Andes. Interesting percussion and pan pipes and more. I extracted the audio. I created a cue file so that I can reference the various tracks. I'll post the link to the video in the spoiler but it doesn't look like head-fi provides any storage for files so I'll have to figure out where to toss the cue file in case anyone wants it. Nice music for testing midrange and imaging and for checking on boomy bass.



Spoiler: Music link








This site can extract audio from YouTube videos https://www.onlinevideoconverter.com/mp3-converter


----------



## youngarthur

Otto Motor said:


> Where in NE Scotland? Thurso?


Twelve miles south of Thurso.


----------



## Francisk (Apr 26, 2018)

Just received my red color ZS10 paired with silicone tips and after spending some quality time on most of my favorite tracks I've concluded that my ZST Pro (color edition) paired with foam tips sound way better. High frequencies on the ZST Pro paired with foam tips sound much more natural with clearer micro details and bass is tighter without the mid-bass bleed that's present on the ZS10. Instrument separation, layering  and percussive transient attack is still better on the ZST Pro even though it only has 2 drivers per side. I tried pairing the ZS10 with foam tips and the bass tighten up a little but the high frequencies are even more recessed and I'm missing the high frequency details.

Don't get me wrong, the ZS10 is no lemon, it's just that I expected more from a 5 drivers per side ZS10. The slightly wider soundstage on the ZS10 is the only advantage over the ZST Pro. To my ears, the ZST Pro paired with foam tips sound more balanced overall. Moral of the story, more doesn't mean better...sometimes less is better. On another note, the ZS10 may appeal to people who loves a warm sound signature but unfortunately I don't fall under that category.

PS: I've found a very good use for my ZS10...watching movies...where the thick, fat and warm sound of the ZS10 really comes into play and adds punch to the movie, especially fast action movies with lots of explosions


----------



## notamethlab

Here's an interesting mod by  nyanchu202 on twitter. From what I could translate, the user is able to control the DD's and BA's with the dip switch.


----------



## harriss

manukmanohar said:


> which is the apt x hd module?





C2thew said:


> do you have a link to the bluetooth module that you bought?  I'm curious which one you purchased



This is the link : https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...T0U2A&id=566101607268&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail

i have tested with my phone running android 8.1 and one plus 3T running oreo 8.0 .  Both detect APTX-HD


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Apr 25, 2018)

Just got my ZS10 yesterday and spent some time comparing with the ZSR, which has been my primary IEM for a while. For my large ears, both feel comfortable but I think it's easier to find suitable tips for a good seal with the the ZSR. I ended up settling on the same JVC Spiral Dots (L) that I use with the ZSR. This is probably the first time where my beloved KZ starline tips were a poor fit with the size L because they were too long and put the ZS10 enclosure too far out of my ear. I tried the M just in case but those fell in, the same way any other non-L-size tip would.

The first thing I noticed was that the ZS10 has less mid-bass emphasis than the ZSR, with possibly slightly better extension and generally tighter low-end. This allowed the mids to open up more on the ZS10. Vocals sounded more natural with better separation; solo violins and guitars more easily cut through their accompaniment. Treble is good but haven't had much time to compare for now. The ZS10 is a bit brighter but not overly so.

Overall, my impression has been positive and I'm enjoying the ZS10 a lot. However, the ZSR may be more fun on certain styles where a strong, thumping bass is desirable.


----------



## Slater

harriss said:


> i have received my first KZ ZS10 and my APTX-HD (CSR8675 chip) bluetooth module . will share my thoughts about it later



EarStudio ES100?


----------



## liquidzoo

Picked up the TRN BT3 bluetooth adapter for my ZS6 from Amazon (out of stock for the Prime version now).

Despite the item page, it does support aptX which is nice.

Initial (30 second) impressions are that the treble is much more pronounced with the bt adapter than it is corded.  Time will tell if that becomes an issue.  Overall I believe this will make a welcome addition to my workout gear.  Biking or the gym.  I will have to see how long the battery lasts.  I will take it out for a bike ride later (when the sun isn't up so it's not 100 out) and see how it works out.  Seems pretty comfortable, though.


----------



## HungryPanda

ED15 and this track Oh yeah:


----------



## sino8r

liquidzoo said:


> Picked up the TRN BT3 bluetooth adapter for my ZS6 from Amazon (out of stock for the Prime version now).
> 
> Despite the item page, it does support aptX which is nice.
> 
> Initial (30 second) impressions are that the treble is much more pronounced with the bt adapter than it is corded.  Time will tell if that becomes an issue.  Overall I believe this will make a welcome addition to my workout gear.  Biking or the gym.  I will have to see how long the battery lasts.  I will take it out for a bike ride later (when the sun isn't up so it's not 100 out) and see how it works out.  Seems pretty comfortable, though.



I got one last week. Seems to be lasting all day with streaming videos and audio at work. The sound quality is much better than the previous bluetooth adapters and is on par with the regular corded connector. I've tried two other versions before from KZ but they were terrible. This one is almost as good as my jaybird and is rather comfortable. Very happy!


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 25, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> ED15 and this track Oh yeah:




Progressive House for your ED15, Panda.


Spoiler


----------



## Bartig (Apr 25, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> For your ED15, Panda.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



And for my ZhiYin Z5000 too, thanks! Whoah. The last is a great test track.


----------



## Otto Motor

youngarthur said:


> Twelve miles south of Thurso.


Wow! I did my M.Sc. field work at the Kyle of Tongue and stayed in Bettyhill with the McKenzies...29 years later (last October), I went back and stayed at the Bettyhill Hotel.


----------



## Otto Motor

notamethlab said:


> Here's an interesting mod by  nyanchu202 on twitter. From what I could translate, the user is able to control the DD's and BA's with the dip switch.


Crazy and impressive alike. I thought this was an earphone lock.


----------



## C2thew

harriss said:


> This is the link : https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...T0U2A&id=566101607268&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail
> 
> i have tested with my phone running android 8.1 and one plus 3T running oreo 8.0 .  Both detect APTX-HD



interesting.  I'm running android 7.0 on my LG v20 however my TRN bluetooth KZ cable says bluetooth 4.2.  What does the icon look like on your phone when it says APT-HD is connected?  I just see a bluetooth icon at the top of my phone and a battery meter next to it which shows the battery percentage of my headset.  hmmmm


----------



## HungryPanda

Couple of good tunes Doc


----------



## Sebilion

Am I the only one who prefers listening to the kz zs6 rather than the kz zs10? I burned them for some time hoping for a change but nothing changed...


----------



## HungryPanda

The KZ6 is a fine iem so I am not surprised


----------



## B9Scrambler

ED15 huh? Ootb I'm very impressed with the nice build and massive, deep, hard hitting bassssssssssssssss. Ssssssseriously ssssssibilant though. Lowed treble sssssssssssseems sssssssssssssssspiky too. Modders should have fun with thisssssssssssssssss one.


----------



## HungryPanda

I found the ED15 very tip dependent. I tried 4 different ones and they all made them sound different. I'm happy now


----------



## B9Scrambler

HungryPanda said:


> I found the ED15 very tip dependent. I tried 4 different ones and they all made them sound different. I'm happy now



Mine are going back into the box until I'm ready to deal with the sibilance. ZS6 is like cream in comparison. Too bad because the bass is phenomenal. That alone makes them worth the effort. Without it they'd join my ED12 in purgatory, haha.


----------



## phower (Apr 25, 2018)

Sebilion said:


> Am I the only one who prefers listening to the kz zs6 rather than the kz zs10? I burned them for some time hoping for a change but nothing changed...


Burn in is for loud speakers which use the surround. The surround takes sometime to become loose. Break in for tiny dynamic drivers and balanced armatures is pointless despite so many people here claiming the contrary.
BTW surround is the cloth impregnated with a special plastic or sometimes made out of rubber. The dynamic drivers in earphones don't use them and hence no need for break-in or burn in.


----------



## Viber

Is there an easy\safe way to open the shells of the ATR and\or ZSE?

@Slater   ?


----------



## sino8r

Sebilion said:


> Am I the only one who prefers listening to the kz zs6 rather than the kz zs10? I burned them for some time hoping for a change but nothing changed...


Yeah, I'm not a fan either. They sound really flat in comparison to the ZS6 imo. I requested a return on my ZS10 and they offered me 35 bucks off. I decided to keep as backups. Maybe I'll attempt to mod them somehow but I really think it's all about the extra driver and the placement of the armatures. I'm not really sure that any dip switchs, parallel, or in a series wiring will fix that. Who knows though.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> interesting.  I'm running android 7.0 on my LG v20 however my TRN bluetooth KZ cable says bluetooth 4.2.  What does the icon look like on your phone when it says APT-HD is connected?  I just see a bluetooth icon at the top of my phone and a battery meter next to it which shows the battery percentage of my headset.  hmmmm



TRN cable is 4.2.

1 version of the TRN cable has aptX (no aptX HD or aptX low latency). The pther version of the TRN cable has no aptX.


----------



## Slater (Apr 25, 2018)

Viber said:


> Is there an easy\safe way to open the shells of the ATR and\or ZSE?
> 
> @Slater   ?



ATE and ATR is easy. Not sure about the ZSE, but I'll bet the same method would apply.

I have used 2 methods, but a number of people jumped on me for 1 of the methods.

Method 1 - Put the shell in your teeth, with the seam running PARALLEL with your teeth (ie nozzle pointing out of your mouth). Hold the seam exactly on your *cuspids*. GENTLY apply pressure, and it will break the glue seal and the shell will come right apart. It is very fast, and very easy. And before people freak out again, it is very soft plastic, and the amount of pressure you apply is equal to or less than biting a raw almond (the seed not the shell). There is as much danger to your teeth using this method as there is eating almonds. So if you have fragile teeth, wooden false teeth, dentures, crowns, or anything that would be a risk to eating almonds, don't use this method. _I.e. Standard disclaimer to calm people's worries "Do not use this method - it is bad for your teeth - do it at your own risk"._

Method 2 - Use a pair of vice grip pliers. Open the jaws all of the way so that they just BARELY hold the shell at the seam (with the seam running PERPENDICULAR with the vice grip jaws, i.e. nozzle pointing away from the pliers). GENTLY tighten the knob so that it applies pressure, and it will break the glue seal and the shell will come right apart. It is very fast, and very easy.

Both methods, if done right, are fast, easy, and won't leave any marks on the shells.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> ED15 huh? Ootb I'm very impressed with the nice build and massive, deep, hard hitting bassssssssssssssss. Ssssssseriously ssssssibilant though. Lowed treble sssssssssssseems sssssssssssssssspiky too. Modders should have fun with thisssssssssssssssss one.



Listen to this clip on the ED15, and your ears will melt off LOL


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Listen to this clip on the ED15, and your ears will melt off LOL




Oh God... haha!


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 25, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Mine are going back into the box until I'm ready to deal with the sibilance. ZS6 is like cream in comparison. Too bad because the bass is phenomenal. That alone makes them worth the effort. Without it they'd join my ED12 in purgatory, haha.


Interesting: I have not identified any sibilance in mine (or something is wrong with my ears...which cannot be excluded). Bass of mine is super strong and firm: fun but not realistic. Hope sibilance is not a QC issue...or source dependency...

Suggest a test track and I will check for sibilance again.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> TRN cable is 4.2.
> 
> 1 version of the TRN cable has aptX (no aptX HD or aptX low latency). The pther version of the TRN cable has no aptX.



Is there any way to tell the difference? I just checked my box and it's instructions. No dice...


----------



## rfsux (Apr 26, 2018)

editing my review


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> Interesting: I have not identified any sibilance in mine (or something is wrong with my ears...which cannot be excluded). Bass of mine is super strong and firm: fun but not realistic. Hope sibilance is not a QC issue...or source dependency...
> 
> Suggest a test track and I will check for sibilance again.



Totally agree on the bass. It's great. Love that aspect. Wish the ZS10 had a similar presentation there. But no, I doubt sibilance is a QC issue. Just raw, unfiltered BAs. I'll probably stick on one of the RE400 filters like I did with the ZS6 to take the edge off. Maybe open up the nozzle and stick in some porous foam if needed. With some light mods they'll be great. As-is with the sibilance? Na.

Aesop Rock - Blood Sandwich
Schiller - Under My Skin (feat. Kim Sanders) 
Dillon Francis - We The Funk (the mild sibilance it adds to the smooth vocals here is impressive)
Lenzman - Open Page (Feat. Riya) (another with smooth vocals that it adds sibilance to)
BT - The Great Escape (feat. Caroline Lavelle)
De La Soul - Attack of the Stet

Need more?


----------



## Otto Motor

B9Scrambler said:


> Totally agree on the bass. It's great. Love that aspect. Wish the ZS10 had a similar presentation there. But no, I doubt sibilance is a QC issue. Just raw, unfiltered BAs. I'll probably stick on one of the RE400 filters like I did with the ZS6 to take the edge off. Maybe open up the nozzle and stick in some porous foam if needed. With some light mods they'll be great. As-is with the sibilance? Na.
> 
> Aesop Rock - Blood Sandwich
> Schiller - Under My Skin (feat. Kim Sanders)
> ...


I don't think I have any of the above...but will find them on youtube. 

Sibilance in my collection: Focal Sphear, Sennheiser Momentum in-ear, Sennheiser CX 5.00...


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Is there any way to tell the difference? I just checked my box and it's instructions. No dice...



No clue. I only have the aptx version myself (and no aptx sources).

I would check the listing where you bought it again very carefully. The listings that I've seen on Aliexpress have been clear on each version (and there is a price difference between the 2 versions as well).


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> Listen to this clip on the ED15, and your ears will melt off LOL



I really want to try watching this with a ZS6 or ED15 lmaoo


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> De La Soul - Attack of the Stet



Wow, that's a name I haven't heard in a looong time! I forgot all about them!


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> No clue. I only have the aptx version myself (and no aptx sources).
> 
> I would check the listing where you bought it again very carefully. The listings that I've seen on Aliexpress have been clear on each version (and there is a price difference between the 2 versions as well).



Yeah, I grabbed mine on Amazon sold by **** and it claimed on the description to have the csr8645 chip. But the folks in the question section asked if it's aptx and one claimed that the seller had contacted them and described it as an older version without and that they'd have a newer version soon. Maybe I'll have to check Aliexpress. The funny thing is they state out of stock and available on the 30th. Maybe the newer ones will be available then or it's just a coincidence. I'm fairly certain these are aptx anyways. They certainly sound really good compared to the KZ and ERJIGO bluetooth cables. Those were terrible. The TRN bluetooth sounds fairly close to the silver cables in quality.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 26, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Totally agree on the bass. It's great. Love that aspect. Wish the ZS10 had a similar presentation there. But no, I doubt sibilance is a QC issue. Just raw, unfiltered BAs. I'll probably stick on one of the RE400 filters like I did with the ZS6 to take the edge off. Maybe open up the nozzle and stick in some porous foam if needed. With some light mods they'll be great. As-is with the sibilance? Na.
> 
> Aesop Rock - Blood Sandwich
> Schiller - Under My Skin (feat. Kim Sanders)
> ...


I chose my own lullaby as I never made it past French Rap (such as Ssssoon E MC and MC Ssssolaar): Sssssscarboro Fair by Sssssimon and Garfunkel from their recent box set at a healthy volume. Sssssscarboro sounded a bit ssssibilant with the ED15 but even more ssssibilant with the Ssssssennheiser Momentum in ear, and equally ssssibilant with the Focal Ssssssspark. Only the ZSssss10 were a bit less ssssibilant.

I'd ssssay the ssssibilance of the ED15 is average on this particular track. I also checked Ssssade "Ssssmooth Operator" and could not find it overly ssssibilant with the ED15.

The threshold is obviously personal. I remember that I thought a year ago my Senns were faulty - now they sound just fine to me. Similar with the Focal Sphear...unless they loosened up after "burn-in" .


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 26, 2018)

Schiller - Under My Skin (feat. Kim Sanders) is a well-recorded track and is a staple in my collection. Great pick, B9.


----------



## toddy0191

B9Scrambler said:


> Mine are going back into the box until I'm ready to deal with the sibilance. ZS6 is like cream in comparison. Too bad because the bass is phenomenal. That alone makes them worth the effort. Without it they'd join my ED12 in purgatory, haha.



I've just had a listen to mine again with a track with loads of sibillance(cologne cerrone Houdini by Glodfrapp) and can see how some people may classify them as sibillant.  I'm personally not that bothered by it but that's probably due to my   ageing  hearing, as I was one of the many who found the zs6 fine too.

I've got foams on mine,  which may help.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Following up on my initial impressions of the ZS10, I am finding harshness in the upper midrange when listening at increased volumes. This was not noticeable at home and only becomes noticeable with specific music.

For most metal and electronic music I sampled with, it did not bother me. However, it was particularly noticeable when listening to violin recordings regardless of production quality. Whenever the violin played forte and louder, especially in the higher registers, if my volume was set to relatively loud it was painful. I haven't experienced this with other earphones in some time. I haven't done much fine tuning with EQ but this is clearly associated with that peak in the 2-4 kHz range. On my very limited phone EQ, I had to cut both the 910 Hz and 3.6 kHz bands by a few dB for it to be tolerable, since those were the only bands available in that range.

I also tried swapping to the Yersen filter tips that came with the FEN-2000 and that completely fixed the harsh mids but has also done more shaping to the FR. I have to spend some more time with them to conclude whether or not I like them for all styles of music.

As for those who are calling the ZS10 bass cannons, have you tried the ZSR? Those have far more bass than the ZS10. I think the bass is actually very nice, smooth, and has pretty good extension.


----------



## TLDRonin

ChaoticKinesis said:


> As for those who are calling the ZS10 bass cannons, have you tried the ZSR? Those have far more bass than the ZS10. I think the bass is actually very nice, smooth, and has pretty good extension.


Someone called the ZS10s bass cannons? They are far from that


----------



## snip3r77

All in all, zxr is the best offering from kz now? Regardless of price


----------



## TLDRonin

snip3r77 said:


> All in all, zxr is the best offering from kz now? Regardless of price


They seem to be the "safest" of the more expensive KZ models.


----------



## Bartig (Apr 26, 2018)

rfsux said:


> ZS10 is warm--has good bass, adequate mids, and mellow/not brilliant/not harsh highs; not neutral. It is truly bassy (fast, gripping, and tight); far from lacking; barely seismic/pounding. The tone is just too colored. It not only lacks, but removes, sparkle. Vocals, opera, and acoustic guitar have texture, but are veiled, toned down, and severely weak; awful at low volume. The 3D Binaural/ambience is there, only quite, but sound separation is good. It's not fatiguing. When the cable is right, the ZS10 fits comfortably--the biggest plus I can give. The copper wire tangles a lot, but overall is good; new silver cable makes the sound more muddy, textureless, and weak; if it wasn't dreadful enough. I won't rate the ZS10 with each genre; not kidding, 90/100 songs are not satisfying, not better, after continuous listen for six hours.


Yes, the ZS10 is very, VERY colored. It seems to make every guitar or analog track somewhat electronic sounding. You will lose a great deal of authenticity in some songs.

However just yesterday I found out I can actually love this signature too. They’re great on EDM and electronic music, with their separation in bass and emphasized vocals.



snip3r77 said:


> All in all, zxr is the best offering from kz now? Regardless of price


Especially when it comes to price quality ratio. The ZS10 sounds a bit like the ZSR, but it takes away the mid bass bleeding and adds sometimes pronounced and sometimes blown-up mids. Also, the ZS10 has a little more detail in the instrument placement. Although they don’t sound very natural... I’d recommend the ZSR for the price.


----------



## maxxevv

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Following up on my initial impressions of the ZS10, I am finding harshness in the upper midrange when listening at increased volumes. This was not noticeable at home and only becoQes noticeable with specific music.
> 
> For most metal and electronic music I sampled with, it did not bother me. However, it was particularly noticeable when listening to violin recordings regardless of production quality. Whenever the violin played forte and louder, especially in the higher registers, if my volume was set to relatively loud it was painful. I haven't experienced this with other earphones in some time. I haven't done much fine tuning with EQ but this is clearly associated with that peak in the 2-4 kHz range. On my very limited phone EQ, I had to cut both the 910 Hz and 3.6 kHz bands by a few dB for it to be tolerable, since those were the only bands available in that range.



It might be 'clipping' of the frequency wave at higher volumes (higher power draw)  and resulting in distorted output, hence the 'harshness'. 

Its a problem with speakers when paired with amplifiers not having a transient response that can keep up with the transient power demands of the speaker domes.  Its theoretically possible with earphones though its quite unthinkable that an earphone can be that demanding. 

Just a question though, what was the driving source you used with the ZS10?  

I listen to a lot classical and in particular violins, but I have not noticed that issue yet ( I've gone through about 6 ~7 concertos and chamber pieces since getting the ZS10). But I was playing it on my LG G6 in "external device" mode or through my ES9028Q2M  DAC Amp which has plenty of juice.


----------



## hydroid

1 less BA against ZS6.. hmmm


----------



## friuns (Apr 26, 2018)

Got zs10 first impressions those big fail they sound a lot like tin audio t2 but worse, only good thing about them there no highs piersing. But everything else a lot worse than in zs6, a lot less detail, less sound stage, mudness, less seperation, hard to belive they have 5 drivers

Maybe burn in help but i doubt as they so far away from zs6


----------



## Bartig

Choo choo! Here comes the KZ ES4


----------



## harriss

C2thew said:


> interesting.  I'm running android 7.0 on my LG v20 however my TRN bluetooth KZ cable says bluetooth 4.2.  What does the icon look like on your phone when it says APT-HD is connected?  I just see a bluetooth icon at the top of my phone and a battery meter next to it which shows the battery percentage of my headset.  hmmmm



on oneplus 3 , it actualy shows Qualcomm APTX logo on the notification side and state APTX-HD .


----------



## vegetaleb

I think I am going to get one of the BT adapter cable for my ZSR and ZS3, though there are several models that come with memory wire:
-With APTX and without
-2 Pins or MCMX
So should I go for 2 pins + APTX? 
Is the APTX model really an aptx one or it's a aliexpress trick? Because both cables are at the same price range.
The APTX version is called BT3


----------



## miko033

Any suggestion on what's better for daily use, shozy hibiki, kz zs10 or tfz series 2?First Unread


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Apr 26, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> It might be 'clipping' of the frequency wave at higher volumes (higher power draw)  and resulting in distorted output, hence the 'harshness'.
> 
> Its a problem with speakers when paired with amplifiers not having a transient response that can keep up with the transient power demands of the speaker domes.  Its theoretically possible with earphones though its quite unthinkable that an earphone can be that demanding.
> 
> ...


I was just playing them through my Moto G5S Plus, though I also tried on my amped internal PC sound card. While I'm not testing with a discrete amp, the idea of them clipping at the upper mids seems rather unlikely. For one, I've used more than 10 different IEMs through these same sources, along with several headphones, and never experienced anything like this even at max volume. I'm also talking about having the phone at around 75% volume or higher for classical music, which objectively speaking is probably not all that loud compared to the way many others listen. For most other styles of music I'm usually in the 40-60% range. Then there's the fact that I listen to plenty of metal and hard electronic music that would much sooner cause clipping at the low end, if this were in fact an issue.

On the subject of painfully harsh mids from violins: I am experiencing this across the board be it with orchestral pieces or solo violins, modern recordings or old. While it's more rare and not nearly as noticeable, I've experienced some unpleasantness with some higher guitars, cymbals, and vocals. I have not really investigated this possibility but perhaps my ears are more sensitive than those of most other people in this range.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Does anyone know of any custom cable makers than have KZ 0.75mm connectors?

I’ve spoken to a few who say they do UE 0.75mm but there seems to be a debate if these are the same or not?

Thanks


----------



## Francisk (Apr 26, 2018)

I've finally found a very good use for my ZS10..."Watching Movies"...The thick, fat and warm sound of the ZS10 really comes into play and adds punch to the movie, especially fast action movies with lots of explosions, The big fat colored sound of the ZS10 really makes watching movies so much more fun. Now I've got a good reason to keep the ZS10


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 26, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Choo choo! Here comes the KZ ES4



Thanks for the pic.

I'm curious about KZ's follow-through. The KZ YZ40, according to "the phonograph.net", was described as a 1+1 and was to be offered in purple. "mbwilson" was really looking forward to that one and it's possibilities the way many of us have been awaiting for KZ to release the ZSR in white and red. Not sure if the white ZSR is/was an empty promise at this point because KZ has since released two new models (ZS10 and ED15) but:

the promised WHITE ZSR is nowhere to be found. 



 

the promised RED ZSR is nowhere to be found. 
the promised BLUE ZSR is nowhere to be found. 
the promised CLEAR EARTIPS are nowhere to be found. 
the promised CABLE COLOR selection is nowhere to be found. 

Time will tell if they are biting off more than they can chew.

At any rate.......been here before when KZ teased the ATH-E70 clone that never materialized. 

Seems to be a lot of shuffling going on at KZ and things aren't always as they appear. 





Part of me kinda' misses the good ol' days.





Spoiler



**** EDIT ****


----------



## liquidzoo

sino8r said:


> Yeah, I grabbed mine on Amazon sold by **** and it claimed on the description to have the csr8645 chip. But the folks in the question section asked if it's aptx and one claimed that the seller had contacted them and described it as an older version without and that they'd have a newer version soon. Maybe I'll have to check Aliexpress. The funny thing is they state out of stock and available on the 30th. Maybe the newer ones will be available then or it's just a coincidence. I'm fairly certain these are aptx anyways. They certainly sound really good compared to the KZ and ERJIGO bluetooth cables. Those were terrible. The TRN bluetooth sounds fairly close to the silver cables in quality.



Late to the party, but here's my take:

I have what I believe to be the same version you do, and it definitely supports aptX.  Here's how I can tell:

On my phone (Note 8) - Enable Developer Settings (Settings > About > tap version number a bunch).  Go into Developer Settings and about halfway down there is a section for the Bluetooth Codec.  When my BT adapter is connected, it says aptX (not aptX HD, as I don't believe my phone supports that).

Phone and device have to both support the codec, otherwise it will default to SBC (My BlueBuds X, for example, only stream using the SBC codec).


----------



## Superluc

I have tried a pair of actual version (i think) of ATR. 
They are easier to listen than other KZ models i have and i like the tonality, using with them the Starline tips.
With the Turbo/Whirlwinds the tonality seem a bit too brighter and everything mid-focused, maybe also because they goes so down the noozle.

The two weights looks awful, but work really good with the cable


----------



## paulindss

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the pic.
> 
> I'm curious about KZ's follow-through. The KZ YZ40, according to "the phonograph.net", was described as a 1+1 and was to be offered in purple. "mbwilson" was really looking forward to that one and it's possibilities the way many of us have been awaiting for KZ to release the ZSR in white and red. Not sure if the white ZSR is/was an empty promise at this point because KZ has since released two new models (ZS10 and ED15) but:
> 
> ...



White and red zsr can be Found in taobao and some Aliexpress shops.


----------



## C2thew (Apr 26, 2018)

Slater said:


> TRN cable is 4.2.
> 
> 1 version of the TRN cable has aptX (no aptX HD or aptX low latency). The other version of the TRN cable has no aptX.



ahhh it seems that I purchased the trn bluetooth 4.1 cable which doesn't offer the APT-X support. ($20.99) It has the older "CSR 8635 chipset"

there's another listing that shows the it does have "APTX compatibility" with the "CSR 8645 chipset" on aliexpress. ($28.99)

Darn it.

edit*: I see a picture in the ad from the one that I purchased from with the CSR 8635 chipset on a dissected bluetooth cable.  The newer ad with the more expensive headset says that it contains the 8645 chipset.


----------



## harriss

C2thew said:


> ahhh it seems that I purchased the trn bluetooth 4.1 cable which doesn't offer the APT-X support. ($20.99) It has the older "CSR 8635 chipset"
> 
> there's another listing that shows the it does have "APTX compatibility" with the "CSR 8645 chipset" on aliexpress. ($28.99)
> 
> ...


 
some other bluetooth module is using csra64215 which support APTX-LL and APTX . but msot android devcie support only aptx and aptx-hd .


----------



## BattlePope

Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement stock cable for the KZ ZS3? I just noticed that mine is starting to wear and I'm looking to replace it but would prefer not to pay the $10 for an "upgrade" cable if I can swing it.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 26, 2018)

paulindss said:


> White and red zsr can be Found in taobao and some Aliexpress shops.





 


I should have double checked before posting. They were loaded on Amazon yesterday. 




 

 

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Fidelity-...C_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=KZ+ZSR&th=1&psc=1


Time to get out the salt and pepper.


----------



## smy1

If i like the ZST and the zs6 would I like the zsr?


----------



## sino8r (Apr 26, 2018)

liquidzoo said:


> Late to the party, but here's my take:
> 
> I have what I believe to be the same version you do, and it definitely supports aptX.  Here's how I can tell:
> 
> ...



The note 8 probably does support aptx HD. Mine supports plain aptx and it's the good but ancient note 4 (I'm still trying to fight the removable battery issue but alas have failed. Gonna grab the 9 in the fall) Anyways, I wrote **** on Amazon last night and they did verify that the ones arriving April 30 are the Bluetooth with csr8645 chip. Did the same with Skysound and they said all theirs are csr8645. They ship directly from China so it's a bit different than **** and their supplies that go directly to an Amazon warehouse. Thought you all might be interested...


----------



## Slater

hydroid said:


> 1 less BA against ZS6.. hmmm



You know its bad when there's ripoffs of a ripoff LOL


----------



## stimuz

to anyone disappointed with zs10, try foam tips. i already liked zs10, but i dont think i was able to get a perfect seal without foam, theyre simply the most awkward iems ive used fit wise.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

stimuz said:


> to anyone disappointed with zs10, try foam tips. i already liked zs10, but i dont think i was able to get a perfect seal without foam, theyre simply the most awkward iems ive used fit wise.


I think the fit issues some people have are related to the fairly short nozzle and how it immediately transitions into the wide, expanding body.

Personally, I thought the most awkwardly fitting IEMs were the Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD. After trying dozens of tips, I gave them away because I couldn't get a good seal.


----------



## TheVortex

I might try my ZS10's with the New Bee foams and I like my Xiaomi Pro HD's with the KZ Starline tips in place of the crappy ones that come with it.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

TheVortex said:


> I might try my ZS10's with the New Bee foams and I like my Xiaomi Pro HD's with the KZ Starline tips in place of the crappy ones that come with it.


The KZ Starline tips are the longest tips I have that I'm able to use (Spinfits just don't work for me) and they came the closest to giving me a seal in the Xiaomi Pro HDs but it still was not enough.

I also want to take back my initial statement that the Starlines are too long for the ZS10, as they're not. However, then the upper mids kill my ears. So far I'm liking them with the Yersen filter tips but haven't had a chance to A/B them with anything else yet. Based on the frequency response of the ZS6 with Ostry 200 posted earlier in this thread, that 2-6 kHz cut looks perfect for the ZS10.


----------



## sino8r

stimuz said:


> to anyone disappointed with zs10, try foam tips. i already liked zs10, but i dont think i was able to get a perfect seal without foam, theyre simply the most awkward iems ive used fit wise.


Seem to fit me well although mine came with foam since I pre-ordered. To me the zs6 fit poorly even with foam. I have to really turn and maneuver one side to seal perfectly. Maybe I'm lopsided or the nozzle is too long.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> You know its bad when there's ripoffs of a ripoff LOL



Are we sure these aren't the metal YZ35 models that are due this year or a these like the old stock that's housed in a new shell? They looks similar and have the same amount of drivers. Or does the upcoming coming model have 2 BA and 1 DD? I'm still curious if the YZ35 is a new version of the ZS6?


----------



## paulindss

sino8r said:


> Are we sure these aren't the metal YZ35 models that are due this year or a these like the old stock that's housed in a new shell? They looks similar and have the same amount of drivers. Or does the upcoming coming model have 2 BA and 1 DD? I'm still curious if the YZ35 is a new version of the ZS6?



The description page says that its a completely new model. Not a rebrand. 

They say...


----------



## Otto Motor

Errr....


----------



## bhazard

Francisk said:


> I've finally found a very good use for my ZS10..."Watching Movies"...The thick, fat and warm sound of the ZS10 really comes into play and adds punch to the movie, especially fast action movies with lots of explosions, The big fat colored sound of the ZS10 really makes watching movies so much more fun. Now I've got a good reason to keep the ZS10



Yes! The big bass boom is top notch for movies and video games. Mids and highs need tweaking. I haven't figured out a perfect EQ curve for that yet.


----------



## kr0mka

Really enjoying my ZS10 with **** 2.5mm balanced cable + X5III as source. Compared to ZS5v1 the treble is a bit more refined, bass is also on the stronger side and the soundstage expanded a little. The fit was perfect out of the box, these are quite more comfortable than zs5. It's my first day with them, so far everything seems good


----------



## Otto Motor

Hmmm...


----------



## rfsux

I have the ZS10 but skipped the ZS5v1 and want to know if this has the same sound or tone as the ZS5v1 .


----------



## Otto Motor

rfsux said:


> I have the ZS10 but skipped the ZS5v1 and want to know if this has the same sound or tone as the ZS5v1 .


No:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2081#post-14189853


----------



## Otto Motor

From the phonograph - I found this between the ads. Have yet to use my own ES3 for a few hours in order to justify ordering the ES4 .



 

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-es4-officially-revealed-coming-soon-news/


----------



## rfsux (Apr 28, 2018)

Thanks.


----------



## WildSeven

Is anyone going to try mod the ED15 with MMCX connector?


----------



## jeromeaparis (Apr 27, 2018)

BattlePope said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement stock cable for the KZ ZS3? I just noticed that mine is starting to wear and I'm looking to replace it but would prefer not to pay the $10 for an "upgrade" cable if I can swing it.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...2d2c-428d-bdd9-93a0106ed62a&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## gazzington

What’s  good kz earphone to use with a fiio x5iii for a fan of hip hop, metal and classic rock?


----------



## bsoplinger (Apr 27, 2018)

stimuz said:


> to anyone disappointed with zs10, try foam tips. i already liked zs10, but i dont think i was able to get a perfect seal without foam, theyre simply the most awkward iems ive used fit wise.





ChaoticKinesis said:


> I think the fit issues some people have are related to the fairly short nozzle and how it immediately transitions into the wide, expanding body.
> 
> Personally, I thought the most awkwardly fitting IEMs were the Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD. After trying dozens of tips, I gave them away because I couldn't get a good seal.


I too have fitment issues with these. I finally got a good fit by using medium instead of my normal large using the enclosed Starline style tips. What's required for me to get a decent amount of bass and sub bass was crazy deep insertion, hence medium instead of my typical large. I mean "am I going to touch my eardrum" deep. They actually go nowhere near deep enough to actually touch but it does feel like they will. Suddenly I had good solid bass and the mids and highs opened up a bit. I think because that although the narrow tip cuts off the sound the deep insertion gets them firing more directly down my ear canal and not towards the side as a typical insertion depth does. Which would explain my preference for the Whirlwind style over the Starline for many IEMs which aren't typically inserted deeply.

Edit: I still think I get a bit of off axis placement of the nozzle opening still because I really don't notice that big treble spike in the 2-4 kHz range that shows on FR graphs and others reviews.

Edit 2: So I'll suggest for those who have these and aren't hearing bass that you go down a size and try for deep insertion. Grab the body, rotate it in your ear to make sure that the cable is leaving the body pointing straight forward and horizontally. Then tilt the body pivoting on the eartips to slightly lift the rear of the body away from contact with your ear and press on the forward portion of the body which should transfer to pushing the ear tip much deeper into your ear canal. See how that sounds. I can believe that it might feel strange or uncomfortable. But its worth a try to see if you get a good sonic signature. If you do then you can tip roll until you find something comfortable but that still gives good sound.


----------



## Otto Motor

You find it here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10.23034/reviews


----------



## Asimov90

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy the KZ 2 pin connector socket??
I want to make my earphones cable-detachable, like my old beloved ATE. I already have some KZ 2 pins spare cables and the Bluetooth module so I thought about making all my headphones compatible with them to not buy more cables or having to crack open my earphones to fix them (it's not easy). I have been looking everywhere for kz connectors but I can't find them, the closest to the KZ 2 pin connector is this: 

https://www.google.com.mx/url?sa=t&...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3SWYp7-C6-pPjvbZiwy4eT

But I'm not even sure they're compatible. 
Maybe some modder here has any idea.


----------



## phower

I found something interesting while browsing rtings.com reviews. All the popular headphones like Beyer dynamic DT880/990 and Sony MDR-7506 that are used in studios during the mixing and mastering stages have a 10kHz peak. 
So, it is possible that KZ designed the ZS6 based on these reference headphones. These headphones are not very popular with general consumers because of their overly analytical sound. 

So, ZS6 may not be as bad as we make it out to be. KZ were not exactly out of their mind while tuning it. A graphic or parametric equalizer should take care of those peaks easily.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 27, 2018)

phower said:


> I found something interesting while browsing rtings.com reviews. All the popular headphones like Beyer dynamic DT880/990 and Sony MDR-7506 that are used in studios during the mixing and mastering stages have a 10kHz peak.
> So, it is possible that KZ designed the ZS6 based on these reference headphones. These headphones are not very popular with general consumers because of their overly analytical sound.
> 
> So, ZS6 may not be as bad as we make it out to be. KZ were not exactly out of their mind while tuning it. A graphic or parametric equalizer should take care of those peaks easily.



I always said that the ZS6 was akin to an in-ear version of the 668b/669 with a touch more presence in the lower frequencies.




To my ears, the use of separate DD's for clean sub-bass & free-flowing mid-bass was a great formula for the ZS6. For me, it's the best of both worlds (micro-detail and well-defined bass without sacrificing the midrange)......at the sub-$50 price-point no less.


----------



## Podster

Otto Motor said:


> You find it here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10.23034/reviews



Great first review Otto

Started with my ZST Carbondale rig this morning (X3ii/Topping NX2), pretty sweet rig for around $250


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> Great first review Otto
> 
> Started with my ZST Carbondale rig this morning (X3ii/Topping NX2), pretty sweet rig for around $250


Why feed the X3 ii to the topping NX2? The X3 has < 1 ohm impedance while the NX2 has around 10 ohms. You just destroyed the tight bass response in my honest opinion.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 27, 2018)

smy1 said:


> If i like the ZST and the zs6 would I like the zsr?



I have all three.and I like my ZS6 and my ZSR.  I have only had my ZST (carbon color) for a few weeks and I want to like it.  So far I find vocals a bit harsh.

Edit:  After saying that, I got out my ZST to give it another try and it sounds better than I remembered. Enjoying it now.  Maybe I had it too loud before.


----------



## Podster

phower said:


> Why feed the X3 ii to the topping NX2? The X3 has < 1 ohm impedance while the NX2 has around 10 ohms. You just destroyed the tight bass response in my honest opinion.



Great thing is you are entitled to that opinion however I've not had that experience with mine especially listing to my AKG 702's but then again they are not bass bombers in the first place! Never been much of a spec and graph man myself, pretty much go by what MY ears hear. I don't really hear any degradation in the bass tightness going straight from X3ii headphone out as opposed to the NX2 Headout.


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> Great thing is you are entitled to that opinion however I've not had that experience with mine especially listing to my AKG 702's but then again they are not bass bombers in the first place! Never been much of a spec and graph man myself, pretty much go by what MY ears hear. I don't really hear any degradation in the bass tightness going straight from X3ii headphone out as opposed to the NX2 Headout.


A higher output impedance sustains the primary resonance in the headphones. It is clearly visible in measurements irrespective of whether we believe in or not.


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> Never been much of a spec and graph man myself, pretty much go by what MY ears hear.



We all have different ears.  The whole point is to enjoy our music.  To be honest, I just scroll past the graphs.  I expect some would call me a bad headfier.


----------



## B9Scrambler

phower said:


> Why feed the X3 ii to the topping NX2? The X3 has < 1 ohm impedance while the NX2 has around 10 ohms. You just destroyed the tight bass response in my honest opinion.



Does it matter? If he enjoys it, no.


----------



## Podster

phower said:


> A higher output impedance sustains the primary resonance in the headphones. It is clearly visible in measurements irrespective of whether we believe in or not.



Well Golly Wally now your engineering prowess has me questioning some of my other preferred pairings Ipod 4th Gen Touch w/Topping NX1, Blue Bird U3 w/iPhone 4, Benjie T6 w/Xduoo XQ-10 and Colorfly C3 w/Topping NX1s




 

By all means feel free to critique these as well (can't seem to find the nail biting Emoticon)! 

Heaven forbid I show this old thing


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> Well Golly Wally now your engineering prowess has me questioning some of my other preferred pairings Ipod 4th Gen Touch w/Topping NX1, Blue Bird U3 w/iPhone 4, Benjie T6 w/Xduoo XQ-10 and Colorfly C3 w/Topping NX1s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know about the xduoo. But, all topping amps have high output impedance due to the type of amp they use. I do see people posting of DAC paired with amp with heavy 18 guage aux cables. 

Having an engineering background, it is first thing I noticed.
I know it is your money and you have the freedom to spend and enjoy it any way you want.
My post will serve those new to this hobby that you don't have to spend so much money on gear in order to enjoy it.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Are we sure these aren't the metal YZ35 models that are due this year or a these like the old stock that's housed in a new shell? They looks similar and have the same amount of drivers. Or does the upcoming coming model have 2 BA and 1 DD? I'm still curious if the YZ35 is a new version of the ZS6?



Nope, different:


----------



## Slater

Asimov90 said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to buy the KZ 2 pin connector socket??
> I want to make my earphones cable-detachable, like my old beloved ATE. I already have some KZ 2 pins spare cables and the Bluetooth module so I thought about making all my headphones compatible with them to not buy more cables or having to crack open my earphones to fix them (it's not easy). I have been looking everywhere for kz connectors but I can't find them, the closest to the KZ 2 pin connector is this:
> 
> https://www.google.com.mx/url?sa=t&...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3SWYp7-C6-pPjvbZiwy4eT
> ...



Easiest would be to get a pair of ZS3 next time they're on sale for $2.99

You can also send PMs to the people who had defective ZS3 and ask them to send you their defective pair for (for cheap/free or the cost of shipping). I have links to everyone that I know has a defective pair (some peopole even have 2 defective sets). Here is the link to the post where I list the members:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/201...hat-you-like-now.832367/page-75#post-13961425


----------



## riffrafff

phower said:


> I don't know about the xduoo. But, all topping amps have high output impedance due to the type of amp they use. I do see people posting of DAC paired with amp with heavy 18 guage aux cables.
> 
> Having an engineering background, it is first thing I noticed.
> I know it is your money and you have the freedom to spend and enjoy it any way you want.
> My post will serve those new to this hobby that you don't have to spend so much money on gear in order to enjoy it.



Low output impedance is one of the first things I look for when researching a new amp or DAP.


----------



## Podster

phower said:


> I don't know about the xduoo. But, all topping amps have high output impedance due to the type of amp they use. I do see people posting of DAC paired with amp with heavy 18 guage aux cables.
> 
> Having an engineering background, it is first thing I noticed.
> I know it is your money and you have the freedom to spend and enjoy it any way you want.
> My post will serve those new to this hobby that you don't have to spend so much money on gear in order to enjoy it.



True, and in my opinion someone can get a Benjie S5 and a piar of KZ ZS6's and have a great little mobil rig for a little over $50. I have no doubt you also have a better suggestion for this as well as you stated if one has the money why not test the old veriety is the spice of life


----------



## bsoplinger

Asimov90 said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to buy the KZ 2 pin connector socket??
> I want to make my earphones cable-detachable, like my old beloved ATE. I already have some KZ 2 pins spare cables and the Bluetooth module so I thought about making all my headphones compatible with them to not buy more cables or having to crack open my earphones to fix them (it's not easy). I have been looking everywhere for kz connectors but I can't find them, the closest to the KZ 2 pin connector is this:
> 
> https://www.google.com.mx/url?sa=t&...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3SWYp7-C6-pPjvbZiwy4eT
> ...


Those are 0.75mm diameter pins and KZ uses that size. Pretty much any 2 pin cables will have 0.78mm pins unless it explicitly says KZ. So if you plan to purchase a nice upgrade cable you might want to look for 0.78mm sockets instead. If you want to match what KZ used they are the correct size. As far as pin size goes. This style would be more like the original KZ design and depth but the pin size is 0.78mm

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ml?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.6.13d42f56IyRMY3


----------



## Asimov90

Slater said:


> Easiest would be to get a pair of ZS3 next time they're on sale for $2.99
> 
> You can also send PMs to the people who had defective ZS3 and ask them to send you their defective pair for (for cheap/free or the cost of shipping). I have links to everyone that I know has a defective pair (some peopole even have 2 defective sets). Here is the link to the post where I list the members:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/201...hat-you-like-now.832367/page-75#post-13961425



Thanks, I suppose I'll try to get some cheap ZS3 and crack them open to get the connectors. I was hoping to find someone who sold them separately in AliExpress like the MMCX ones. Using MMCX connectors to mod my earphones was my second option but many complain about how wonky they are and how soon they break. 2 pins connectors seem more durable and stable.


----------



## maxxevv

Not sure which on these are correct, but there's a complete range of 0.75mm pin plugs out there to choose from. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/af/pin-p...ative_id=SB_20180427182733&isViewCP=y&catId=0


----------



## Asimov90

maxxevv said:


> Not sure which on these are correct, but there's a complete range of 0.75mm pin plugs out there to choose from.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/af/pin-p...ative_id=SB_20180427182733&isViewCP=y&catId=0



Yes, there are plenty of connectors but they are shaped differently from the KZ ones, thus the KZ cables or Bluetooth module might not even fit them. And the separation between the two pin holes might be another issue, if it's wider or narrower the pins won't get in. I wish somebody sold the KZ ones.
Has anyone tried the MMCX connectors to mod any earphones? Are they any good?


----------



## JonnyXDA

KZ ZS10 my 2 cents - there is no denying that there is a 2-4KHz spike, however, I would much rather it be there than the 7-10KHz spike of the ZS6's - for one it's much easier to EQ out and make it sound more "flat" if that's what you're into.

Myself, I'm primarily a lighting designer/programmer, however, through the years I've also learnt a lot about sound engineering and DJ'ing and I currently help setup nightclub sound systems for a living so I prefer a strong bias towards bass, but also maintaining the high-end sparkle between 16-20KHz - usually the mids (400 - 1.5KHzish just tend to muddy sounds in the venues).

The ZS10's for me required a lot less EQ to sound how the systems I setup sound compared to the ZS6's so I'm more than happy with them.  Additionally, the PCB in the ZS10's mean there is a lot of hackability with these which can only be a good thing.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Apr 28, 2018)

I finally got my Tin Audio T2 that I bought during the sale and so far I'm preferring them to the ZS10 after doing the bass mod. It's too bad that beautiful cable it comes with doesn't have a mic, as I refuse to use earphones on the go without one.

I'm still optimistic that once I get my Ostry tips, they will help with the upper-mid harshness of the ZS10 that I find very hard on my ears. Otherwise, I'll probably just swap my ZS10 cable with the ZSR. The cable is really nice and so far I think the ZSR has a similar sound signature, but is much easier to listen to.


----------



## Sylaw

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I finally got my Tinaudio T2 that I bought during the sale and so far I'm preferring them to the ZS10 a*fter doing the bass mod*. It's too bad that beautiful cable it comes with doesn't have a mic, as I refuse to use earphones on the go without one.
> 
> I'm still optimistic that once I get my Ostry tips, they will help with the upper-mid harshness of the ZS10 that I find very hard on my ears. Otherwise, I'll probably just swap my ZS10 cable with the ZSR. The cable is really nice and so far I think the ZSR has a similar sound signature, but is much easier to listen to.


 

What is this bass mod you speak of? does it increase the mid level and tightens the bass response of the Zs10s? is it reversible?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Apr 28, 2018)

Sylaw said:


> What is this bass mod you speak of? does it increase the mid level and tightens the bass response of the Zs10s? is it reversible?


I realize I wasn't clear when mentioning the bass mod. I was referring to the T2, which normally has a somewhat rolled off low-end, not the ZS10.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I realize I wasn't clear when mentioning the bass mod. I was referring to the T2, which normally has a somewhat rolled off low-end, not the ZS10.


So, is the T2 better than the ZS10? If you don't mind, a comparison would be appreciated


----------



## Chronofreak (Apr 28, 2018)

I just realized the stock tips for the ZS6 and ZST are different. The ZS6 tips are slightly harder (made of thicker silicone) and have a rougher surface as compared to the ZST tips (softer and more glossy surface). I find the ZST tips more comfortable when paired with the ZS6 earphones.


----------



## Bartig

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> So, is the T2 better than the ZS10? If you don't mind, a comparison would be appreciated


The T2 is a lot better. More advanced in clarity, balance, instrument placement and soundstage. It leaves music likes it’s supposed to be, instead of dragging everything into a warm electronic sound like the ZS10 does.

Still, if you only listen to EDM, you still might like the ZS10 better for it’s electronic music tuning.


----------



## maxxevv (Apr 28, 2018)

That's highly subjective too.

Its easier to pick up sibilance in tracks on the T2 compared to the ZS10 too. So in some vocal tracks that have have been heavily processed, the sibilance can be a nuisance to the overall listening experience. Of course, neither the T2 nor the ZS10 has sibilance issues anywhere near that of the ZS6.  Also, the sound signature of the ZS10 is easier to live with for extended listening sessions compared to the T2.

The T2 shines when you have singular or acoustic tracks. It places the vocal or instruments such as solo guitars or flute instruments front stage center, very addictive in these kind of tracks.

But as for tonality wise, I personally like it better with the ZS10. Its sounds closer to my HD6XX which I take as a benchmark when it comes to tonality.

Edit: 
T2 can make certain vocal tracks sound 'nasal' in my experience. Was just listening to Adele's "I miss you". She definitely sounded tonally off there, and the faint hint of sibilance was there as well.


----------



## Otto Motor

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> So, is the T2 better than the ZS10? If you don't mind, a comparison would be appreciated


Good question! Complex question! What does "better" mean?  Quite frankly, I could not answer this out of the hip. For sure are they very different!


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 28, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> But as for tonality wise, I personally like it better with the ZS10. Its sounds closer to my HD6XX which I take as a benchmark when it comes to tonality.



That's quite a reference point (regarding tonality) and it's high praise for the ZS10. What source pairs best with your ZS10?


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> That reference (regarding tonality) is high praise indeed. What source pairs best with your ZS10?


I have the Sennheiser HD600 (a slightly leaner HD6xx) and there is no comparison to any of my iems. The UE900S may have a similar resolution but not the glaze and force. A comparison to Sennheiser iems would be interesting...but those are all single drivers and would go more towards the iBasso IT01.


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> I have the Sennheiser HD600 (a slightly leaner HD6xx) and there is no comparison to any of my iems. The UE900S may have a similar resolution but not the glaze and force. A comparison to Sennheiser iems would be interesting...but those are all single drivers and would go more towards the iBasso IT01.




In other words you are in disagreement with the OP's comments:


maxxevv said:


> .....tonality wise, I personally like it better with the ZS10. Its sounds closer to my HD6XX which I take as a benchmark when it comes to tonality.


----------



## F4yze

My KZ ABS case has arrived! Quite worth the price since I only paid 2 sgd dollars for it. There's a rubber seal so I assume it'll have decent waterproofing. At least against the rain. The case itself feels pretty solid too.


----------



## maxxevv (Apr 28, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> That's quite a reference point (regarding tonality) and it's high praise for the ZS10. What source pairs best with your ZS10?



"Closer" is a relative term, its to be taken in comparison to the Tin Audio T2.

As for source, it likes a bit more juice. Its fairly alright straight out of my LG G6. But the bass to mids transition area sounds slightly cleaner when I invoke the phones "External Device" mode.
At the desk, at work, I pair it with my portable ES9028Q2M DAC Amp.  At home, it really comes alive with a ES9038Pro DAC, you really appreciate the multi-drivers in the ZS10 with the amount of detail and layering that this pairing derives.



Otto Motor said:


> I have the Sennheiser HD600 (a slightly leaner HD6xx) and there is no comparison to any of my iems. The UE900S may have a similar resolution but not the glaze and force. A comparison to Sennheiser iems would be interesting...but those are all single drivers and would go more towards the iBasso IT01.



I wasn't referring to the power of course, that's totally different experience when it comes to headphones and earphones, can't compare them in those areas. Was referring to how the nature of how the sound is rendered. Whether is sounded coherent, sound natural, sounded 'correct'.


----------



## eggnogg

for those having bad fitting with ZS10, try this 
its me, if u wondering.


----------



## DocHoliday

maxxevv said:


> "Closer" is a relative term, its to be taken in comparison to the Tin Audio T2.
> 
> As for source, it likes a bit more juice. Its fairly alright straight out of my LG G6. But the bass to mids transition area sounds slightly cleaner when I invoke the phones "External Device" mode.
> At the desk, at work, I pair it with my portable ES9028Q2M DAC Amp.  At home, it really comes alive with a ES9038Pro DAC, you really appreciate the multi-drivers in the ZS10 with the amount of detail and layering that this pairing derives.
> ...



Thanks for the clarification. I understood your meaning right away (i.e. - hamburger tastes "closer" to steak than chicken ever will). 

Thanks also for the info about power. It was just as I expected since the ZS10 is a multi-driver IEM, hence my inquiry. 

I'm looking forward to hearing the ZS10 for myself. 

Thanks again.


----------



## alex5908

F4yze said:


> My KZ ABS case has arrived! Quite worth the price since I only paid 2 sgd dollars for it.


Can I get a link to buy it from?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 28, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> In other words you are in disagreement with the OP's comments:


Yes! That's a big luxury Mercedes against a small Mazda. These Senns are perennial favourites of audiophiles and rightly so (check wall of fame at innerfidelity.com) that deserve their own sophisticated amp/dac combinations, and the ZS10 has received mixed reviews even within its own $40 category.

I hope you are not pulling my leg.


----------



## bsoplinger

eggnogg said:


> for those having bad fitting with ZS10, try this
> its me, if u wondering.…


That's what I tried to describe. 

[SOAPBOX]
IEMs should not be designed so that contortions are required just to get a decent fit. I mean really KZ? With all the other manufacturers' designs that you've copied couldn't you at least pick good ones? 
[/SOAPBOX]


----------



## bsoplinger

Looks like a new model from the 2018 lineup is available. I sent a message to the seller asking if it was in stock or a pre-order and the reply was that pre-order items are not in stock which I took to mean if you can buy it they'll ship it. So grab your 1+1 ES4 today 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...phone-Headset-Earbud/2847025_32870543199.html


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> Yes! That's a big luxury Mercedes against a small Mazda. These Senns are perennial favourites of audiophiles and rightly so (check wall of fame at innerfidelity.com) that deserve their own sophisticated amp/dac combinations, and the ZS10 has received mixed reviews even within its own $40 category.
> 
> I hope you are not pulling my leg.



The OP's comments were regarding the ZS10's "tonality". My response was of an inquisitive nature. Why is this an issue for you?

I clearly stated in response to the OP:



DocHoliday said:


> I understood your meaning right away (i.e. - hamburger tastes "closer" to steak than chicken ever will).



There was clearly no intention on the OP's comments or my own that the two products are equals or closely related. Just a comment regarding "tonality".

What's with the sh**-stirring?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 28, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The OP's comments were regarding the ZS10's "tonality". My response was of an inquisitive nature. Why is this an issue for you?
> 
> I clearly stated in response to the OP:
> 
> ...


It is all good. No bad intentions and all in good sportsmanship. No issue at all, it is just a discussion. As to tonality only, it is very difficult to me to recognize any similarity.

P.S. I re-read the respective paragraphs. Classic misunderstanding. "Closer to...HD6xx...benchmark" does admittedly not imply a comparison. My bad. My brain was focusing on whether the HD6xx is a suitable benchmark. Both together create some endless loop...


----------



## Superluc

CoiL said:


> Latest ATR&ATE do not use foam in nozzle and both don`t have sibilance. They are detailed with little warmth and good bass extension (but not bassy).


Someone has already try to do a comparison between latest ATR or ATE and ZS10 ?

I wonder if ZS10's signature and tonality are similar to them.


----------



## eggnogg

bsoplinger said:


> That's what I tried to describe.
> 
> 
> IEMs should not be designed so that contortions are required just to get a decent fit. I mean really KZ? With all the other manufacturers' designs that you've copied couldn't you at least pick good ones?



this trick now always become a habit,
even when dealing with micro driver iem.
those people complain about ZS10 fitting issue need to learn.


----------



## F4yze

alex5908 said:


> Can I get a link to buy it from?


I bought from this seller: 
http://s.aliexpress.com/eeM7vQnm?


----------



## 424358

F4yze said:


> I bought from this seller:
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eeM7vQnm?



I got the same case in gray. 2 of them. Different listing but same thing. Not advertised as KZ and slightly cheaper. Like $2 shipped each. Man they are small though. I have to tightly pack my ZST but my  monk lites fit fine.

Zs5 and ZS6 won’t fit but I have a pelican 1010 for the ZS6 and the Black kz plastic case for zs5 with cheap clips.


----------



## groucho69

bsoplinger said:


> Looks like a new model from the 2018 lineup is available. I sent a message to the seller asking if it was in stock or a pre-order and the reply was that pre-order items are not in stock which I took to mean if you can buy it they'll ship it. So grab your 1+1 ES4 today
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...phone-Headset-Earbud/2847025_32870543199.html



can't wait for reviews


----------



## bsoplinger

eggnogg said:


> this trick now always become a habit,
> even when dealing with micro driver iem.
> those people complain about ZS10 fitting issue need to learn.…


Umm what trick do they need to learn? That your hand can hold 3 pairs of IEMs at a time? Hate to be a spoil sport but pretty much anyone over 5 or 6 could hold 3 pairs of IEMs in their hand. Even if all 3 pairs are the somewhat large bodied ZS10.


----------



## rfsux (Apr 28, 2018)




----------



## Otto Motor

Superluc said:


> Someone has already try to do a comparison between latest ATR or ATE and ZS10 ?
> 
> I wonder if ZS10's signature and tonality are similar to them.


Difficult comparison. The ZS10 has a way more sophisticated sound construct. Everything is a bit bigger in them...


----------



## Aparker2005

bsoplinger said:


> Looks like a new model from the 2018 lineup is available. I sent a message to the seller asking if it was in stock or a pre-order and the reply was that pre-order items are not in stock which I took to mean if you can buy it they'll ship it. So grab your 1+1 ES4 today
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...phone-Headset-Earbud/2847025_32870543199.html



Wonder how these will compare to the ES3? Those are the best ears I've ever owned. My zs10 will be here Monday and if they're any better than that  I'll be more than happy. The ES4 being another dual driver though, may not be too much of an upgrade from my beloved ES3.


----------



## F4yze

misterchao said:


> I got the same case in gray. 2 of them. Different listing but same thing. Not advertised as KZ and slightly cheaper. Like $2 shipped each. Man they are small though. I have to tightly pack my ZST but my  monk lites fit fine.
> 
> Zs5 and ZS6 won’t fit but I have a pelican 1010 for the ZS6 and the Black kz plastic case for zs5 with cheap clips.



Wouldn't the kz in my listing still be cheaper since it would be about 1usd shipped? I don't doubt it's the same case as on AliExpress, there's multiple sellers selling the same case but in a different box than kz (and more expensive too). However mine fits the zs6 just fine. Snug fit though.


----------



## archy121

eggnogg said:


>




I have thd Zero Audio Tenore in my collection - Classic fave.

Can you or anyone else give a comparison against the z10.
EPH100 or Fudue A73 are others that can be compared against.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I got my Ostry tips and ended up swapping the S300 filter into the KZ starline tips with the ZS10. Comparing all three Ostry tips with the Yersen filter tips, the Yersens have the most extreme filtering.

At the moment, I think I like the ZS10 with the above filter tip best for metal and the Tin Audio T2 for classical.


----------



## eggnogg

bsoplinger said:


> Umm what trick do they need to learn? That your hand can hold 3 pairs of IEMs at a time? Hate to be a spoil sport but pretty much anyone over 5 or 6 could hold 3 pairs of IEMs in their hand. Even if all 3 pairs are the somewhat large bodied ZS10.



yes, ur welcome










archy121 said:


> I have thd Zero Audio Tenore in my collection - Classic fave.
> 
> Can you or anyone else give a comparison against the z10.
> EPH100 or Fudue A73 are others that can be compared against.



hmm, can't do.
but here short comparison
ZS10 > tenore


----------



## Asimov90

Has anyone modded any earphones using the MMCX connectors? they're very affordable but many complain about how wonky they are and how easy they break. 
I would like to mod my KZ ATE to use detachable cable, they have a spacious casing size and the model fits perfectly the design of detachable cable earphones. I would love to mod them to use standard KZ 2 pin connectors but nobody sells them unfortunately.


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> I have all three.and I like my ZS6 and my ZSR.  I have only had my ZST (carbon color) for a few weeks and I want to like it.  So far I find vocals a bit harsh.
> 
> Edit:  After saying that, I got out my ZST to give it another try and it sounds better than I remembered. Enjoying it now.  Maybe I had it too loud before.


I've seen your posts on other threads. You have a number of phones and more importantly an appreciation for music in general. Zs6 or Zsr, and why, please.


----------



## rfsux

More ZS10 photos. I spent too much time taking these. I've been listening to the ZS10 so much I didn't sleep for a day.


----------



## DeltaAudio

You thought KZ was gonna stop at 10 drivers? Ha! New leak shows a kz earphone with 12 DRIVERS https://twitter.com/hulang9078/status/986886555343011840/photo/1


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

Otto Motor said:


> Good question! Complex question! What does "better" mean?  Quite frankly, I could not answer this out of the hip. For sure are they very different!


Sound wise which is better? Which has the most detailed audio? From different reviews I gather that the T2 might be better imo because of the balanced sound signature. I don't particularly like V-shaped sound signatures especially considering the zs10 is more v-shaped than other kz flagships


----------



## stimuz (Apr 29, 2018)

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Sound wise which is better? Which has the most detailed audio? From different reviews I gather that the T2 might be better imo because of the balanced sound signature. I don't particularly like V-shaped sound signatures especially considering the zs10 is more v-shaped than other kz flagships



Gonna take back what I said, T2 is great for majority of rock and I'm sure a bunch of stuff I don't listen to. My biggest china iem purchases are IT01, ZS10 and T2 though I do have a bunch of lesser IEMs, the only one of which I don't consider redundant is the CM5 which still has a pretty distinct sound that I enjoy vs the other 3. I would honestly suggest just getting a ZS10 and T2 instead of an IT01 if there was a choice between that. Just covers way more bases for less money.


----------



## Bartig

rfsux said:


> More ZS10 photos. I spent too much time taking these. I've been listening to the ZS10 so much I didn't sleep for a day.


Falling in love with an earphone is just <3


----------



## CardigdanWalk

FyreAudio said:


> You thought KZ was gonna stop at 10 drivers? Ha! New leak shows a kz earphone with 12 DRIVERS https://twitter.com/hulang9078/status/986886555343011840/photo/1



Is there actually any improvement or is it just marketing with more numbers at this stage?


----------



## bsoplinger

CardigdanWalk said:


> Is there actually any improvement or is it just marketing with more numbers at this stage?


In KZ's case, especially with their poor or nonexistent tuning, I'd say marketing. But yes, more can be better. You can break up the spectrum more and use each BA in just its ideal range. Limiting it to just the frequencies it reproduces well.


----------



## TLDRonin (Apr 29, 2018)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Is there actually any improvement or is it just marketing with more numbers at this stage?


It looks like it will have 2 DD, which is what I was hoping the ZS10 would have

Speaking of the ZS10 and DD, does anyone else get driver flex, particularly on their left side? I've yet to experience driver flex on my right side, but my left side gets its fairly often when I'm trying to get a deep fit.

I made sure the 3 vents aren't plugged/getting blocked inside my ears, but still get driver flex.


----------



## bsoplinger

TLDRonin said:


> It looks like it will have 2 DD, which is what I was hoping the ZS10 would have
> 
> Speaking of the ZS10 and DD, does anyone else get driver flex, particularly on their left side? I've yet to experience driver flex on my right side, but my left side gets its fairly often when I'm trying to get a deep fit.
> 
> I made sure the 3 vents aren't plugged/getting blocked inside my ears, but still get driver flex.


Yes. Me too. I too use a very deep fit with them. I get it with both ears because I assumed that I was going for such a deep fit that I was effectively at least partially blocking the venting.


----------



## stimuz

bsoplinger said:


> Yes. Me too. I too use a very deep fit with them. I get it with both ears because I assumed that I was going for such a deep fit that I was effectively at least partially blocking the venting.



just do a shallow insert with foam tips imo


----------



## alex5908

F4yze said:


> I bought from this seller:
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eeM7vQnm?


Are they big enough to put two IEMs?


----------



## Aparker2005

Very tempted to order the ES4 but I just really don't think I need it. I've now got the zst  es3  and zs10. Kz has me on their hype train :/


----------



## WalterTorino

Aparker2005 said:


> Very tempted to order the ES4 but I just really don't think I need it. I've now got the zst  es3  and zs10. Kz has me on their hype train :/


It's hard to say will it be a good purchase or not. But you have to notice that there is gonna be a graphene DD (which promises a good, deep bass, better than in the zs10) and a crossover for only two drivers per side. I predict that the es4 will be just about a good, balanced sound with nice bass and soft but pretty detailed treble.
As for me - $15-$18 is a good price to try it 
I'm waiting for the ed15 and the next stop will be the es4, for sure


----------



## bsoplinger

alex5908 said:


> Are they big enough to put two IEMs?


Size is 41x68x88mm which by back of the envelope is 1.5x2.5x3.25 inches. The typical $1 semi-rigid case is about 3.25in square. So no by my calculations. Unless you're talking the small single dynamic driver older KZ models like the EDx HSx ones and those would probably fit 2 without too much trouble.


----------



## alex5908 (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks. Do you know the ones I can put two earphones into one box?
Does the one you mentioned fit for one KZ ZS6?


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 29, 2018)

alex5908 said:


> Thanks. Do you know the ones I can put two earphones into one box?
> Does the one you mentioned fit for one KZ ZS6?



https://www.amazon.com/SUNGUY-Porta...orage+case&dpPl=1&dpID=61CkScDYKiL&ref=plSrch. 




 



Same measurements as this case.




I currently have two ZS6's in one case and they fit comfortably.


----------



## bsoplinger

alex5908 said:


> Thanks. Do you know the ones I can put two earphones into one box?
> Does the one you mentioned fit for one KZ ZS6?


I purchased this style for the ZS6 and others which have a rather large body because it feels like I'm squeezing them into the typical $1 round or square case.

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_1307865.html?wid=1433363
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mal...Box-Hard-Carrying-Pouch-Case/32598672367.html

For a larger and would fit 2 pair case

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ova...Ear-Earphone-Pouches-Storage/32734440071.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...ortable-Storage-Bag-Box-free/32789937464.html

The last link is to the Pizen store. I purchased some IEM and the case was big enough to sleep 4  The particular product has the little ads to other products in their store showing a number of different size and style cases


----------



## Aparker2005

Well done kz, well done. Trying the blue ES4! I think the only other one I'll look forward to is the rumored 6 driver coming soon. I should have more than enough between these eventual 5.


----------



## Superluc

WalterTorino said:


> It's hard to say will it be a good purchase or not. But you have to notice that *there is gonna be a graphene DD* (which promises a good, deep bass, better than in the zs10) and a crossover for only two drivers per side.


Where you have found that info ?


----------



## Saoshyant

alex5908 said:


> Are they big enough to put two IEMs?



Those cases tend to feel a bit on the small side overall.


----------



## maxxevv

alex5908 said:


> Are they big enough to put two IEMs?



If both of these IEMs do not have memory wires.  Even then, it will be a tight fit. 

In fact, for IEMs with memory wires, a single one is already a tight fit. I bought an identical non-KZ branded one some months ago. Didn't find it practical for daily use as it was very limited in storage space and no separate pocket to store tips / sanitizing wipes / Bluetooth module etc. 
The squarish zippered ones work much better in my experience.


----------



## snip3r77

Aparker2005 said:


> Very tempted to order the ES4 but I just really don't think I need it. I've now got the zst  es3  and zs10. Kz has me on their hype train :/


 Buy it man. It’s so damn good


----------



## snip3r77

WalterTorino said:


> It's hard to say will it be a good purchase or not. But you have to notice that there is gonna be a graphene DD (which promises a good, deep bass, better than in the zs10) and a crossover for only two drivers per side. I predict that the es4 will be just about a good, balanced sound with nice bass and soft but pretty detailed treble.
> As for me - $15-$18 is a good price to try it
> I'm waiting for the ed15 and the next stop will be the es4, for sure


Take one for the team. Thanks


----------



## WalterTorino

Superluc said:


> Where you have found that info ?


Ali


----------



## mbwilson111

WalterTorino said:


> Ali



QKZ has already done it with their VK1.  I accidentally stayed up all night last night listening to my music with these.  They arrived yesterday.  If you scroll down the page there is quite a lot of info.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QKZ...for-SmartPhone-Stereo-In-Ear/32865449462.html


----------



## SomeEntityThing

New KZ ES4, hm...

KZ ES4 In Ear Monitors Armature And Dynamic BA DD Hybrid Earphone Earbuds HiFi Bass Noise Cancelling Ear Hooks Headphones
http://s.aliexpress.com/RzUbi2me?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


----------



## Zlivan

mbwilson111 said:


> QKZ has already done it with their VK1.  I accidentally stayed up all night last night listening to my music with these.  They arrived yesterday.  If you scroll down the page there is quite a lot of info.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QKZ...for-SmartPhone-Stereo-In-Ear/32865449462.html


So they aren't too bad then, are they?
Still waiting for my pair...


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Apr 29, 2018)

alex5908 said:


> Thanks. Do you know the ones I can put two earphones into one box?
> Does the one you mentioned fit for one KZ ZS6?


You can buy orico case from jd(on sale ~ 1$) .
https://m.jd.ru/600120169.html#/600120169.html 

Pictures:


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 29, 2018)

Slater said:


> It appears to be based off the TRN V10 housing, which I remember owners commenting about it being enormous and uncomfortable. I'd be willing to bet that at BEST, the VK1 will be a side grade. I'd love to be proven wrong though.





Zlivan said:


> So they aren't too bad then, are they?
> Still waiting for my pair...



Last night I thought they sounded great.  Will use them again later tonight.  Not built like a ZS6 but I think they look cool.  The cable is similar to the TRN black one.  I got the no mic version as I always do if there is a choice.  I found them comfortable enough and I  am not generally a fan of the over ear style.   Difficult with glasses AND long hair.

They sounded good with the stock tips but after a couple hours they started to hurt a bit.  Took a break and later put on Starlines.  Big difference in comfort and sound for me.  I listened to several albums and finally went to bed just before five.  When my husband works nights that is my nightshift too... listening to music while he slaves away

Plenty of bass for me... went deep.  Vocals, male and female, were beautiful.  Not sure exactly where my high frequency hearing rolls off but these sounded good enough to me in that area.  Lovely spaciousness.  I  have left them burning in all day.  I never hear a difference ...but I do it anyway.



Devodonaldson said:


> I've seen your posts on other threads. You have a number of phones and more importantly an appreciation for music in general. Zs6 or Zsr, and why, please.



@Devodonaldson I have not had a chance to compare and would hesitate to guess what you would like best.  You may want to also consider the QKZ that I have mentioned above.  I think you have the Nighthawks?  Not saying these sound anything like them... they may or may not... but I was having a similar relaxed listen to favorite albums like I do with my NH.  That is kind of my way to test gear... If I start a track to check out a certain sound and then end up listening to the whole album...and then another, and another...  That has also happened to me with the ZS6 and the ZSR (had to fix that... I had accidently  written ZST instead of ZSR  too many ZSs) .  My ZS10 will probably arrive this week.

Edited to add:  I was using them with my Cayin N3 DAP  low gain, volume around 40/100


----------



## toddy0191

Aparker2005 said:


> Well done kz, well done. Trying the blue ES4! I think the only other one I'll look forward to is the rumored 6 driver coming soon. I should have more than enough between these eventual 5.



Me too!

Would have skipped these as well if it hadn't have had the graphene driver and crossover.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 29, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Choo choo! Here comes the KZ ES4


Looks like a small brother to the ZS10. Considering I have purchased three new KZ models this year already (ZSR, ZS10, ED15),  - and realistically anticipating that the ES4 will not challenge the ZSR or ZS10 in any way [KZ would not let it happen that a cheaper model beats their top priced ones hands down] - I think I am covered for now. No hearing shock to be expected.

They look good, though.


----------



## Aevum

i just god my ZS6,

They do feel a bit vailed at times, and in others like less bright ZS6. im actually liking them, 

They do feel extreamly cheap compared to the ZS6.


----------



## mbwilson111

Aevum said:


> i just god my ZS6,
> 
> They do feel a bit vailed at times, and in others like less bright ZS6. im actually liking them,
> 
> They do feel extreamly cheap compared to the ZS6.



I am confused... which one did you just get?


----------



## Slater

Asimov90 said:


> Has anyone modded any earphones using the MMCX connectors? they're very affordable but many complain about how wonky they are and how easy they break.
> I would like to mod my KZ ATE to use detachable cable, they have a spacious casing size and the model fits perfectly the design of detachable cable earphones. I would love to mod them to use standard KZ 2 pin connectors but nobody sells them unfortunately.



@CoiL has done this. You have to use a round MMCX connector, instead of the ones with the straight edges.

If you search around, info was posted recently on the type of MMCX connector to use.


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> Last night I thought they sounded great.  Will use them again later tonight.  Not built like a ZS6 but I think they look cool.  The cable is similar to the TRN black one.  I got the no mic version as I always do if there is a choice.  I found them comfortable enough and I  am not generally a fan of the over ear style.   Difficult with glasses AND long hair.
> 
> They sounded good with the stock tips but after a couple hours they started to hurt a bit.  Took a break and later put on Starlines.  Big difference in comfort and sound for me.  I listened to several albums and finally went to bed just before five.  When my husband works nights that is my nightshift too... listening to music while he slaves away
> 
> ...


For the record I'm a Nighthawk/Nightowl person with hybrid pads, or iSine20 with foam tips person. Present treble but not boosted. So, based on those likes, which KZ model/models would you recommend?


----------



## SchwarzeWolke

Got the ZS6 from Aliexpress and have to say that I'm really pleased with them. Sound open, airy with enough bass. The only thing I don't like is the "dip" around 5-6kHz which I can hear especially with a slightly recessed sounding snare drum. Got this sound also from the B400 from Brainwavz and my returned FIBAE3 from Custom Art. In comparison to the FIBAE3 and the B400, the ZS6 doesn't sound "veiled". This might be due to the spikes in the treble.
Good measurements can be found here btw.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 29, 2018)

Devodonaldson said:


> For the record I'm a Nighthawk/Nightowl person with hybrid pads, or iSine20 with foam tips person. Present treble but not boosted. So, based on those likes, which KZ model/models would you recommend?



What is your budget and does it have to be KZ.  I think there are people better than me to advise you or you can read all the comments and try to decide... or you could  just get them all    If I  had to guess I would suggest the ZSR.  You have a choice of colors and it seems more universally liked than some of the others.  You could check out the Hidden Gems thready if you are open to other inexpensive brands.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-659#post-14207589

I have never heard an iSine


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> What is your budget and does it have to be KZ.  I think there are people better than me to advise you or you can read all the comments and try to decide... or you could  just get them all    If I  had to guess I would suggest the ZSR.  You have a choice of colors and it seems more universally liked than some of the others.  You could check out the Hidden Gems thready if you are open to other inexpensive brands.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-659#post-14207589
> 
> I have never heard an iSine


ISine is very open sounding. People complain without cipher cable, buy tips make a difference. Silicone are horrible for it, IMO. Those are my go to. Every so often I'd prefer a closed back, so then I'd grab the ZSR or whatever, but it wouldn't be often. May want to run with them, etc, so under $100 would be ideal. I run with an external DAC/amp so no I don't just want "anything". I want relarivrel good sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

Devodonaldson said:


> ISine is very open sounding. People complain without cipher cable, buy tips make a difference. Silicone are horrible for it, IMO. Those are my go to. Every so often I'd prefer a closed back, so then I'd grab the ZSR or whatever, but it wouldn't be often. May want to run with them, etc, so under $100 would be ideal. I run with an external DAC/amp so no I don't just want "anything". I want relarivrel good sound.



There are so many choices for good to excellent sound.  That was why I suggested the Hidden Gems thread.  Like you, I do use good sources.

You need to hear from other runners.  I don't run anymore and when I did I was alone with  my thoughts... tried a few times with a Koss Porta Pro and found it annoying.  For runs over 4 or 5 miles I usually ran with someone... so no need for music.  Different times.  My music was in the house ... Hi Fi system.


----------



## mbwilson111

@Devodonaldson what about the new KZ ES4?  Looks interesting but no reviews yet.  You could be one of the early adopters.  Looks like it would be more comfortable for running than than the largers models.

If I did not have so many IEMs (afraid to count them but they are all in my list)  I would be tempted.
I am waiting for the purple KZ YZ40 to be released, but no rush.


----------



## Saoshyant

@mbwilson111 You and purple, go figure.  Then again it's part of why I bought the Rose Pudding.  Was kind of a risky blind purchase.


----------



## Aevum

Sorry, i ment ZS10, 

I was reading really negative things here, but really im surprised for the better. 

Poersnally i think they provide a quality similar to the ZS6 without the harsh highs. but i find the housing big and cheap feeling.


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> There are so many choices for good to excellent sound.  That was why I suggested the Hidden Gems thread.  Like you, I do use good sources.
> 
> You need to hear from other runners.  I don't run anymore and when I did I was alone with  my thoughts... tried a few times with a Koss Porta Pro and found it annoying.  For runs over 4 or 5 miles I usually ran with someone... so no need for music.  Different times.  My music was in the house ... Hi Fi system.


Lol, I "hate" running, lve the music, but as an athlete I need to run as a complement to my sport training. So HiFi audio helps me. Anything that would be good for sitting at home listening sound, would work for me. I like to be transported to my listening location while I'm actually doing my roadwork. Been using my V-moda Crossfade 2. Enjoy them, but would like I'm as they are smaller, and not a $300 pair that I'm sweating on. Had ZST and was ok, but interested in possible upgrade of ZS6, ZSR, ZS10. Just don't know which has most realistic audio presentation and frequency response


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> @mbwilson111 You and purple, go figure.  Then again it's part of why I bought the Rose Pudding.  Was kind of a risky blind purchase.



I am sitting here wearing a purple Tshirt with a purple fleece over it (chilly in the house... about 62 F) using my purple mouse on my purple mousemat, drinking tea from a purple mug that sits on a purple silicone coaster with a purple chair mat under my feet.   And, there is something else purple in this photo (taken from where I sit):



Spoiler


----------



## manukmanohar

Saoshyant said:


> @mbwilson111 You and purple, go figure.  Then again it's part of why I bought the Rose Pudding.  Was kind of a risky blind purchase.


how does rose pudding compare to other iems in the price range? I'm looking for a good iem in the sub 300 usd category. simply based on reviews, massdrop plus is at the top of my list of consideration.


----------



## Saoshyant

Purple should be the standard color instead of black.


----------



## mbwilson111

Aevum said:


> Sorry, i ment ZS10,
> 
> I was reading really negative things here, but really im surprised for the better.
> 
> Poersnally i think they provide a quality similar to the ZS6 without the harsh highs. but i find the housing big and cheap feeling.



I was hoping you meant the ZS10.  Mine should be arriving this week.  Comments have become less negative as more people get them, and get used to them.  I had a long listen to my husband's pair before ordering mine and I enjoyed it.  At the time it felt like he and I were the only ones enjoying them.


----------



## Saoshyant (Apr 29, 2018)

manukmanohar said:


> how does rose pudding compare to other iems in the price range? I'm looking for a good iem in the sub 300 usd category. simply based on reviews, massdrop plus is at the top of my list of consideration.



While I enjoy it, I really never fell in love with it, but it’s great for bassy music.  Also, many Rose IEMs have QC issues.

Which reminds me I should try ED15.


----------



## Aparker2005

Wonder how soon this 12 driver will be out. You can't even get your pre-order iems in before kz has already announced another! 

Again I'm only using these mainly for an iem for on stage drumming and drum practice. I thought about selling my ZST locally, but at $14 for the ES4  I think I'll keep them for just in case back up.


----------



## mbwilson111

Saoshyant said:


> Purple should be the standard color instead of black.



Everyone  knows purple sounds best.  More clarity than black.  Black is slightly too dark


----------



## groucho69

WalterTorino said:


> Ali



I had Graphene FLM once but antibiotics cleared it up


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 29, 2018)

> Poersnally i think they provide a quality similar to the ZS6 without the harsh highs. but i find the housing big and cheap feeling.


The ZS6 will always be in its own league - for several reasons: super design "borrowed" from the Campfire Andromeda. Super metal housings. Great looking upgrade cables at reasonable prices available. And no other KZ model has had or will ever have this treble peak again.

Unique in its class!


----------



## zato23

Anyone knows where can buy the KZ LP3 (sold out on most places i looked)?
If someone from EU have a pair and dont need it ,pm me .


----------



## Slater

zato23 said:


> Anyone knows where can buy the KZ LP3 (sold out on most places i looked)?
> If someone from EU have a pair and dont need it ,pm me .



Why do you want those turds?

Worst pair of headphones I own.

Built like crap. Fit like crap. Sound like crap. Drivers are crap. Pads are crap. Can't mod them at all.

I'm in the US, but if I was in the EU I would not only send them to you free, I would pay YOU to take them off my hands.


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> I am sitting here wearing a purple Tshirt with a purple fleece over it (chilly in the house... about 62 F) using my purple mouse on my purple mousemat, drinking tea from a purple mug that sits on a purple silicone coaster with a purple chair mat under my feet.   And, there is something else purple in this photo (taken from where I sit):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Purple is awesome! My favorite color. Just saying


----------



## Adide

mbwilson111 said:


> I am sitting here wearing a purple Tshirt with a purple fleece over it (chilly in the house... about 62 F) using my purple mouse on my purple mousemat, drinking tea from a purple mug that sits on a purple silicone coaster with a purple chair mat under my feet.   And, there is something else purple in this photo (taken from where I sit):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Please empty your Recycle Bin so my ocd can settle down.
Thank you.


----------



## zato23

Slater said:


> Why do you want those turds?
> 
> Worst pair of headphones I own.
> 
> ...



What about the built of headband ?
I wanted the headband for  ksc75


----------



## Otto Motor

Slater said:


> Why do you want those turds?
> 
> Worst pair of headphones I own.
> 
> ...


With all respect, but I have never heard of a decent Chifi HEADphone. There are always good and cheap non-Chifi alternatives available: the mentioned Koss KS75 but also the Koss PortaPro and the new Koss KPH30i, several Sennheiser models (on sale), some AKGs (for US/Canada: cheap at Costco), the fabulous Phillips SHP9500S...but if somebody really wants mediocre, there is always Skullcandy, Urbanears, Monster...and Teufel for Germans.


----------



## Saoshyant

Even Skullcandy has a couple reasonable headphones.


----------



## mbwilson111

Devodonaldson said:


> Purple is awesome! My favorite color. Just saying



In that case, I recommend that you wait for the release of the KZ YZ40.  Problem solved.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> With all respect, but I have never heard of a decent Chifi HEADphone.



Sivga SV007

Symphonized Wraith 1.0

Liboer BH718


----------



## Saoshyant

mbwilson111 said:


> Sivga SV007
> 
> Symphonized Wraith 1.0
> 
> Liboer BH718



Should I mention Hifiman?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 29, 2018)

Saoshyant said:


> Should I mention Hifiman?



of course... although I never get to hear those because they are never comfortable for me...

My husband has three.

Is Superlux Chinese?  I love my Superlux HD 681 EVO


----------



## Otto Motor

Saoshyant said:


> Should I mention Hifiman?


Hifiman is a US company.

http://hifiman.com/about


----------



## Saoshyant

Otto Motor said:


> Hifiman is a US company.
> 
> http://hifiman.com/about



If you go to that website, scroll to the map which states headquarters are in Tianjin


----------



## riffrafff

Otto Motor said:


> With all respect, but I have never heard of a decent Chifi HEADphone. There are always good and cheap non-Chifi alternatives available: the mentioned Koss KS75 but also the Koss PortaPro and the new Koss KPH30i, several Sennheiser models (on sale), some AKGs (for US/Canada: cheap at Costco), the fabulous Phillips SHP9500S...but if somebody really wants mediocre, there is always Skullcandy, Urbanears, Monster...and Teufel for Germans.



+1 for the SHP9500S.  Best $60 open-back evar.


----------



## Slater

zato23 said:


> What about the built of headband ?
> I wanted the headband for  ksc75



Well, believe it or not, that's the original reason I even bought the KZ LP3.

The headband is OK I guess. It's equal to dollar-store quality. The plastic is very brittle. That's one of the challenges in trying to merge them with the KSC75 (while maintaining some cup rotation abilities.

At the end of the day, it's gonna be way easier and cheaper to just get the parts express headphones (or go to your local dollar store). Because those are 100% direct fit, and only cost a few dollars.


----------



## riffrafff

Otto Motor said:


> Hifiman is a US company.
> 
> http://hifiman.com/about



"Was."  It was originally.  Not so much anymore (not since 2011):  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiFiMAN_Electronics#History


----------



## mbwilson111

Adide said:


> Please empty your Recycle Bin so my ocd can settle down.
> Thank you.



uh oh... lol, I can't believe you noticed that.  I don't even know what is in it.  Not too worried... hasn't overflowed yet.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 29, 2018)

That's not what I meant. I don't lump Hifiman in with cheap no-name Chifi stuff; I don't think anybody does. it is a high-end brand name, founded in New York, with distribution center in Illinois and warehouse in Delaware - and worldwide distribution centres. The fact that the headquarters moved to China makes it as much Chifi as Sennheiser. And both are equally expensive.

I was referring to cheap headphones by more or less obscure companies as Chifi that ship from Chinese sellers directly to us customers - which may take weeks - not three days.

There has never been the need for me to order cheap headphones from China as I always got excellent deals here.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> here has never been the need for me to order cheap headphones from China as I always got excellent deals here.



But where else will you find these?


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> But where else will you find these?



In Pinocchio's collection ?


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.amazon.com/OKCSC-Headphones-Retro-Vintage-Cancelling-Earphone/dp/B015FNW8VA


----------



## HungryPanda

And they are termite proof


----------



## Lord Rexter

mbwilson111 said:


> Is Superlux Chinese?  I love my Superlux HD 681 EVO


Yes it is, they are very budget friendly 

Here's my collection:


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> In Pinocchio's collection ?



LOL... in MY collection!  You would be surprised.  I can't find them anymore on alie..I think they are sold out.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> And they are termite proof



that is the best part!



Lord Rexter said:


> Yes it is, they are very budget friendly
> 
> Here's my collection:



Nice!


----------



## TLDRonin

Otto Motor said:


> In Pinocchio's collection ?



Slater's collection?


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL... in MY collection!  You would be surprised.  I can't find them anymore on alie..I think they are sold out.


In Canada, I would have to stain them every couple of years and avoid exposing them to woodpeckers. They do look good, though. What brand? Fisher Price?



Lord Rexter said:


> Yes it is, they are very budget friendly
> Here's my collection:



These Superlux look good, too. I don't know the brand You can get them on amazon prime, though.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> In Canada, I would have to stain them every couple of years and avoid exposing them to woodpeckers. They do look good, though. What brand? Fisher Price?



Those are my Liboer BH718.  40mm titanium driver.  Not real wood... kind of a molded plastic.  Cups are detachable.  They click on in different places to adjust the size.  Good drivers in a really lightweight frame. About $25 on ali last July.  No longer available.

This is my other Liboer.  I got the last one on amazon uk for £10.  Ones like this in various colors and designs still sell on ali for about $30.  For my £10 I also got a hard case and a bag!  and they actually sound good.  I think they are the same drivers as the other one.  Fun discoveries.


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> Slater's collection?



Actually, I don't own a single wooden full-size headphone. I would like to eventually get a pair of something wood. Just haven't had the right opportunity come along...


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> Actually, I don't own a single wooden full-size headphone. I would like to eventually get a pair of something wood. Just haven't had the right opportunity come along...


You could make a pair with your nose


----------



## Otto Motor

TLDRonin said:


> You could make a pair with your nose


Now I get it: Pinocchio = Slater. That hadn't been intended at all


----------



## sino8r

I do wonder how wooden phones sound. I'd imagine that resonance would have play a huge factor in order to take advantage of the wood qualities. I've seen a few online but kinda thought that they might be a gimmick. But alas, I'm not as knowledgeable as you folks. Curious if some manufacturer went to the Alps and used a Spruce that is several hundred years old (lived through the little ice age). Would it sound better like a Stradivarius?


----------



## DocHoliday

zato23 said:


> Anyone knows where can buy the KZ LP3 (sold out on most places i looked)?
> If someone from EU have a pair and dont need it ,pm me .



I had hoped that KZ would offer something comparable to these at some point but I think it's best that they focus on fine-tuning the dynamic drivers for their IEMs.

At $30 this was money well spent.

Sound MAGIC P21


----------



## sino8r

Someone mentioned a 12 driver/armature KZ but there's no mention of anything like that on that upcoming 2018 KZ pic. Is that common for KZ to release a model with no promotion or leak? I realize that they release a lot of models but was just curious of you guys opinions. The image that was shown looked to have a similar build as the ZS10. Could this be the ZS6 successor? Would be strange not to have a metal build though. I wonder if it's a fake?


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 30, 2018)

I like it traditional with technology from Hanover, Germany. My best $25 CAD spent were on the HD231...a smaller HD598 with an arid bass and therefore way superior over my PX100 and PX100ii. Nice and small for watching TV on my iPad in bed. Discontinued and hard to get. This is my most frequently used headphone, albeit far from being my best...I also like the slightly lesser $30 USD brand new Koss KPH30i. 

And even better was the unbelievable $21 CAD for an open box HD471 (the one in the first pic w/o box).

Both are excellent but the HD 471 is harder to drive.

Now you understand why I wasn't looking for Chinese headphone designs.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

WalterTorino said:


> It's hard to say will it be a good purchase or not. But you have to notice that there is gonna be a graphene DD (which promises a good, deep bass, better than in the zs10) and a crossover for only two drivers per side. I predict that the es4 will be just about a good, balanced sound with nice bass and soft but pretty detailed treble.
> As for me - $15-$18 is a good price to try it
> I'm waiting for the ed15 and the next stop will be the es4, for sure


Graphene? KZ has a new DD?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

mbwilson111 said:


> QKZ has already done it with their VK1.  I accidentally stayed up all night last night listening to my music with these.  They arrived yesterday.  If you scroll down the page there is quite a lot of info.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QKZ...for-SmartPhone-Stereo-In-Ear/32865449462.html


How do they sound?


----------



## sino8r

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Graphene? KZ has a new DD?



The KZ ES4 are supposed to have them. I wonder why the ZS10 didn't?


----------



## F4yze

alex5908 said:


> Are they big enough to put two IEMs?


Sure if they're small enough, like a microdriver iem. The case has a decent bit of height so you can stack them on top of one another. But it can only fit one big iem like the kz zs6 or zs10.


----------



## nxnje

Heyy guysss
I've read something good about the **** UEs (custom iems), may someone of you compare that in order to find a similar sounding kz? Are they wort ~20€?


----------



## smy1

The silver upgraded cable for the zs5 work on the zsr right?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

sino8r said:


> The KZ ES4 are supposed to have them. I wonder why the ZS10 didn't?


Maybe a ZS10 v2 or another KZ flagship is coming out. A leaked image of a new KZ with 12 drivers were posted in here earlier.


----------



## bsoplinger

sino8r said:


> I do wonder how wooden phones sound. I'd imagine that resonance would have play a huge factor in order to take advantage of the wood qualities. I've seen a few online but kinda thought that they might be a gimmick. But alas, I'm not as knowledgeable as you folks. Curious if some manufacturer went to the Alps and used a Spruce that is several hundred years old (lived through the little ice age). Would it sound better like a Stradivarius?


If you're curious about headphones with wood ear cups check out the Massdrop Fostex TH-X00 thread here. A very popular headphone. I love my steal of a deal $185 instead of $450 Purpleheart ones.


----------



## TLDRonin

sino8r said:


> The KZ ES4 are supposed to have them. I wonder why the ZS10 didn't?


They might have started producing the ZS10s before they got their hands on the graphene DDs


----------



## cleg

I've got ZS10 and as usual made a video



Actually, for their price — not bad at all. Not something superb, but I've actually expected much worse


----------



## DocHoliday

cleg said:


> I've got ZS10 and as usual made a video
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, for their price — not bad at all. Not something superb, but I've actually expected much worse




Thanks for loading the video.

If you enjoy more air and better treble extension then you may prefer the ZS6 ($45) but I'd recommend ordering a better cable for them.


----------



## cleg

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for loading the video.
> 
> If you enjoy more air and better treble extension then you may prefer the ZS6 ($45) but I'd recommend ordering a better cable for them.



thank you, but ZS6's treble is to synthetic for me, unfortunately. Quality-wise ZS10 is better, they just missing some quantity. EQing actually can fix that.


----------



## TLDRonin

cleg said:


> thank you, but ZS6's treble is to synthetic for me, unfortunately. Quality-wise ZS10 is better, they just missing some quantity. EQing actually can fix that.


Totally agree with the EQ part.

Out of the box, It was okay, but I am thoroughly enjoying them after tweakin around with Equalizer APO. Female vocals don't sound weird, and vocals are more forward.


----------



## JohnVoight

ZS10 is in! My first KZ.
Listening to it since last 2 hours.
First impression - colour me impressed! 

I like it. Really like it! The sound is as per my preference. (Electronic music and such)


----------



## DeltaAudio

Isn't all that QKZ does is rebrand other earphones? The Vk1 is literally the Trn v10 (it even has the same packaging) without the balanced armatures


----------



## Aparker2005

Does the ES4 come with the new upgraded cable? I thought I saw someone say it did, but I couldn't tell for sure when I ordered


----------



## TLDRonin

Aparker2005 said:


> Does the ES4 come with the new upgraded cable? I thought I saw someone say it did, but I couldn't tell for sure when I ordered


Yes. It shows them in the pictures below the listing on the KZ store


----------



## Wiljen

Pretty sure my Zs10 is still in the mining the ore to make components stage.  I have heard nothing of it and no updates on Ali tracking page.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 30, 2018)

FyreAudio said:


> Isn't all that QKZ does is rebrand other earphones? The Vk1 is literally the Trn v10 (it even has the same packaging) without the balanced armatures



The shell is  obviously the same.  Different drivers.  Graphene for the QKZ. I love mine.

Inside the TRN v10:











inside the QKZ VK1








Sorry about the huge pictures.  The spoiler feature was not working correctly


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> Pretty sure my Zs10 is still in the mining the ore to make components stage.  I have heard nothing of it and no updates on Ali tracking page.



Have you put the  number into 17 track?  Mine has been put on a plane in China.... I think..does not appear to be in the UK yet.


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you put the  number into 17 track?  Mine has been put on a plane in China.... I think..does not appear to be in the UK yet.



yep, shows nothing.  I put a note in with the seller, maybe they can tell me a bit more.  I don't really start getting overly concerned until at least a month has passed but with others showing up now it makes me wonder.


----------



## Aparker2005

My zs10 is being delivered in Arkansas today


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Is there visually any difference between the two drivers inside the IEM?

 Ordered the QKZ myself but often wonder how we can actually tell if it’s graphene or if they company has just put in a fancy new box and created some marketing posters to resell an old product 

Hoping not!



mbwilson111 said:


> The shell is  obviously the same.  Different drivers.  Graphene for the QKZ. I love mine.
> 
> Inside the TRN v10:
> 
> ...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 30, 2018)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Is there visually any difference between the two drivers inside the IEM?
> 
> Ordered the QKZ myself but often wonder how we can actually tell if it’s graphene or if they company has just put in a fancy new box and created some marketing posters to resell an old product
> 
> Hoping not!



I don't have both.  Only the VK1.  You can see through the shell so if someone has both they will probably be able to tell if they are different. 

Don't worry, you will like it if you can get a good fit and seal.  I  have Starlines on mine.

They have no reason to lie about the graphene driver.  They are not uncommon now.  I have had my UiiSii CM5 for months and months and it has a graphene driver.


----------



## paulindss

People sell zs6 for the equivalent of almost 70$ Where i live. So i am quite calm about the zs10. If they don't impress me, minding that i have a zsr on the way. I Just sell them easily.

Curious about them tho. As my last KZ was zst.


----------



## WalterTorino (Apr 30, 2018)

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Graphene? KZ has a new DD?


I guess it will not be the very new driver - just the same kz dd but with a graphene film in it instead of a standart material.


----------



## smy1

Anybody who believes in cables. Which sounds better on the zsr and zs5, the oxygen free one or the silver plated cable?


----------



## alex5908

smy1 said:


> Anybody who believes in cables. Which sounds better on the zsr and zs5, the oxygen free one or the silver plated cable?


To me copper oxygen free adds lows. Silver plated cable adds mids and highs. The difference can be drastic.


----------



## DeltaAudio

alex5908 said:


> To me copper oxygen free adds lows. Silver plated cable adds mids and highs. The difference can be drastic.


 that sounds like a load of placebo, cables DO NOT change sound characteristics, they offer an increase in build quality and a very minor change to resistance.


----------



## DeltaAudio

mbwilson111 said:


> The shell is  obviously the same.  Different drivers.  Graphene for the QKZ. I love mine.
> 
> Inside the TRN v10:
> 
> ...


 
Hmm i find that hard to believe that it's a different driver when the driver looks exactly the same as the original trn v10 just look at the marketing images


----------



## alex5908

FyreAudio said:


> that sounds like a load of placebo, cables DO NOT change sound characteristics, they offer an increase in build quality and a very minor change to resistance.


Have you tried that?
Even the people who are very far from audiophiles can hear the difference. The question is to get a real (not fake) copper or copper plated cable.


----------



## smy1

alex5908 said:


> To me copper oxygen free adds lows. Silver plated cable adds mids and highs. The difference can be drastic.



Cool, what about the regular silver one? Are they basically the same thing as the silver plated one?


----------



## mbwilson111

FyreAudio said:


> Hmm i find that hard to believe that it's a different driver when the driver looks exactly the same as the original trn v10 just look at the marketing images



well someone will just have to get both and take them apart and/or compare the sound...  all I know is that I like this QKZ V1


----------



## jeromeaparis

mbwilson111 said:


> well someone will just have to get both and take them apart and/or compare the sound...  all I know is that I like this QKZ V1



What do you like about the sound of the VK1 ?


----------



## mbwilson111

jeromeaparis said:


> What do you like about the sound of the VK1 ?



I thought I wrote a long post already.

Yes, here it is... six pages back, only 24 hours ago.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2108#post-14207423


----------



## mrmoto050

mbwilson111 said:


> I have all three.and I like my ZS6 and my ZSR.  I have only had my ZST (carbon color) for a few weeks and I want to like it.  So far I find vocals a bit harsh.
> 
> Edit:  After saying that, I got out my ZST to give it another try and it sounds better than I remembered. Enjoying it now.  Maybe I had it too loud before.


I prefer my KSR and KS3 to KZ-ZS10 .


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> Well Golly Wally now your engineering prowess has me questioning some of my other preferred pairings Ipod 4th Gen Touch w/Topping NX1, Blue Bird U3 w/iPhone 4, Benjie T6 w/Xduoo XQ-10 and Colorfly C3 w/Topping NX1s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love that portable tube amp, listen with my old Sony CD portable and LCD-2's. Must be old school too.


----------



## mrmoto050

maxxevv said:


> That's highly subjective too.
> 
> Its easier to pick up sibilance in tracks on the T2 compared to the ZS10 too. So in some vocal tracks that have have been heavily processed, the sibilance can be a nuisance to the overall listening experience. Of course, neither the T2 nor the ZS10 has sibilance issues anywhere near that of the ZS6.  Also, the sound signature of the ZS10 is easier to live with for extended listening sessions compared to the T2.
> 
> ...


The KZ-Zs10 doesn't even remotely come close to the HD600, it sounds washed out in comparison. imo


----------



## Bartig

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought I wrote a long post already.
> 
> Yes, here it is... six pages back, only 24 hours ago.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2108#post-14207423


I like your first impressions. Can you say a little more on soundstage and instrument placement?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 30, 2018)

mrmoto050 said:


> I prefer my KSR and KS3 to KZ-ZS10 .



I gave my ZS3 to my husband because it did not fit me correctly and bought a ZSR (first making sure that his fit me) .  My ZS10 has not arrived yet but last week (before ordering mine) I had a nice listen with my husbands pair.  So I know it fits and I enjoy the sound.  I also like my (green) ZS6.  It is always difficult for me to rate one above another because when I am lost in the music I am not thinking about that... only the music.


----------



## mbwilson111

Bartig said:


> I like your first impressions. Can you say a little more on soundstage and instrument placement?



It had a nice spacious sound.  Keep in mind they were new out of the box, no burn in and I listened mostly in the middle of the night so was choosing relaxing albums.  I am not the one to ask about instrument placement,  I have no idea.  I am not a musician.  I am not a sound engineer.  I am simply a music lover and a person who gets too curious about new things.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

mrmoto050 said:


> I prefer my KSR and KS3 to KZ-ZS10 .


What is a KSR? Do you mean ZSR and ES3 or ZS3?


----------



## TheVortex

How do you change the language to English for the KZ bluetooth adapter?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 30, 2018)

[deleted


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

mbwilson111 said:


> I meant KZ ZSR and KZ ZS3  I think I need more sleep and less late night listening.... only been getting about 5 hours of sleep a night this week.  Will edit my original post.
> 
> I have never had an ES3...only the ZS3 that I gave away.


Ha! I get 4 on a good night during the week.


----------



## mbwilson111

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Ha! I get 4 on a good night during the week.



haha... and I just accidently replied to a post that was to someone else..lol

too many K's and Z's and numbers... we should give them nicknames


----------



## gazzington

I've just bought some kst's on lightening deal on Amazon. My first kz's!


----------



## HungryPanda

gazzington said:


> I've just bought some kst's on lightening deal on Amazon. My first kz's!


 the ZST's ?


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> the ZST's ?



Or as Mr. Mom would say..................KST's/ZST's .....whatever it takes


----------



## gazzington

Yeap KZ ZST. £12 on Amazon in carbon


----------



## gazzington

Sorry flippin auto text


----------



## HungryPanda

I think everyone is a little confused today


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> I think everyone is a little confused today


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I think everyone is a little confused today



Maybe because it was a full moon last night.  Harder to sleep on a full moon night.


----------



## toddy0191

The DD in the left earpiece on my ZS10s has just failed!!!! 

I always get driver flex with them when inserting them but can adjust them so they sound fine. This time though the sound completely stopped from the DD.

Absolutely gutted!!   Have messaged AK Audio to ask for a replacement.

Beware the driver flex!!!


----------



## Podster

mrmoto050 said:


> I love that portable tube amp, listen with my old Sony CD portable and LCD-2's. Must be old school too.



I was surprised and really liked it with my PAW5000 and who does not like a nice VJJ



 

OK, I've strayed enough so let me get back into the thread


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Looks like I'm not the only one bothered whenever someone messes up the model name, haha.  I've always been lowkey triggered by it but it hasn't been something important enough to complain about until now.

They start with Z, not K.  ZS3, ZST, ZS5, ZS6, ZS10.  Not KS3, KZ10, KZ5, etc.


----------



## manukmanohar

Finally got my KZ ZS10's. Initial impressions - Mids less recessed compared to my ZS5. Has a much more gentle U shaped sound signature. Treble is smooth, with no sign of sibilance on even very processed tracks (for example: Rihanna - Monster), but probably having slight roll-off. 
The bass didn't blow me away unlike my KZ ZS5, but is definitely decent (not extremely bassy, but definitely not neutral). Even though the IEMs, themselves are large, I surprisingly found it to be more comfortable than ZS5, with better isolation as well. (but definitely not as good as ZS3 in that regard).

For 30-32 USD with offers, it certainly seems to be decent, but for nearly 45-60 USD, I really think there should be quite a few , which should trump it. The cables are markedly improved from the previous versions as well. (I got the ones with mic)


----------



## phower

groucho69 said:


>


Yeah, I think I should take a break from this thread. I will wait for 6 months. Let KZ release the remaining 8 models. I will wait for YZ35 which looks similar to ZS6. By that time KZ hopefully decides on a sound signature.
Bye until then.


----------



## groucho69

phower said:


> Yeah, I think I should take a break from this thread. I will wait for 6 months. Let KZ release the remaining 8 models. I will wait for YZ35 which looks similar to ZS6. By that time KZ hopefully decides on a sound signature.
> Bye until then.



Maybe by then we will have all of zee models released.


----------



## Bartig

toddy0191 said:


> The DD in the left earpiece on my ZS10s has just failed!!!!
> 
> I always get driver flex with them when inserting them but can adjust them so they sound fine. This time though the sound completely stopped from the DD.
> 
> ...


Wow, NOT good!


----------



## HungryPanda

I have been really enjoying my ZS10's, they have a sound signature I like and understand why KZ have tuned them this way. for high treble the ZS6 is fine but for a more balanced laid back sound the ZS10 does it well


----------



## Aparker2005

Finally got my ZS10. Upon initial fit, I can easily tell I like my ES3 way more. Those seem like true in ear molds for my ears. The ZS10 sticks out awkwardly.

Sound is excellent  but I guess I was expecting more from 5 drivers per side. Bass isn't as high as I'd hoped. I'll try them out with the band Friday. 

So far my ES3 are still my favorite. Hoping the ES4 beats them both and I can be done for a while lol


----------



## CYoung234

I spent a few hours listening to my ED15's. Still waiting for the EDR1, ZS10 and Rose Forest North. The ED15's so far are pretty underwhelming. For being bass monsters, mine do not appear to be. My ZS6's or even my UiSii CM5's seem to carve them up. My ZS6's are so far my overall favorites, but the CM5's do so many things right. When you consider their price, they are crazy good. Very enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## Aparker2005

I am starting to like the not so much highs of these. Also hearing a few things I haven't heard in some songs. Taylor Swifts Reputation album has a few nice layers I haven't heard as clearly  

Needtobreathe's latest album is another good one for me to test on.


----------



## mbwilson111

My red KZ ZS10 arrived in the country this afternoon and is on its way to my local mailing center.  Could be here tomorrow (Tuesday)

I already have a case ready for them...


----------



## Asimov90

Has anyone tried the Plextone X41M? Some say they're real bass monsters? Is there a KZ model that can be called bass monsters? I had the ZS1 but they were a little uncomfortable and didn't block any outer noise at all... I couldn't listen to them while in the street which was a total letdown. But they had a very nice and rumbling bass and sub bass.


----------



## toddy0191

AK Audio are asking me to send my defective left zs10 earpiece back to them so they can repair it.

Is this normal for a budget ear phone like the zs10 as if I've had a problem with other sellers,  they have just sent a replacement?


----------



## maxxevv

mrmoto050 said:


> The KZ-Zs10 doesn't even remotely come close to the HD600, it sounds washed out in comparison. imo



You are another one who needs to pick up your reading glasses to read the thread again. When was it ever about the HD600 ?  
And the key word here is 'closer'.... not 'close'.


----------



## Otto Motor (Apr 30, 2018)

Asimov90 said:


> Has anyone tried the Plextone X41M? Some say they're real bass monsters? Is there a KZ model that can be called bass monsters? I had the ZS1 but they were a little uncomfortable and didn't block any outer noise at all... I couldn't listen to them while in the street which was a total letdown. But they had a very nice and rumbling bass and sub bass.


The Plextone X41M are no bass canons but the Plextone X36M are...the rest is identical between them.
https://goo.gl/VEwPNC

The Plextone X41M are rather natural sounding but lack a bit of a punch.

My KZ ES3 are pretty bassy and even more so are the KZ ED15. The latter have a strong and firm bass, the former have a muddy bass.

The Boarseman KR49 also have a rather strong bass.


----------



## DocHoliday (Apr 30, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> AK Audio are asking me to send my defective left zs10 earpiece back to them so they can repair it.
> 
> Is this normal for a budget ear phone like the zs10 as if I've had a problem with other sellers,  they have just sent a replacement?



Due to multiple episodes of driver flex with my first set of HDS3's one of the dynamic drivers failed to deliver any output. What worked for me was letting them sit for a few days and the diaphragm reset to its natural state. It was my first set of HDS3's. I ordered two more pair and the seller sent me a replacement pair but after approximately 24-48 hours the diaphragm returned to its natural state and my HDS3 was good as new. I have multiple sets of the HDS3 now but my first set are still going strong and they probably have about 300+ hours on them.

I had the same problem with my second ED3 "Perfection" and I used the same remedy. I tried to readjust the diaphragm manually on my first ED3 "Perfection" but I just ruined them. I'm still a bit sad about ruining a good set of IEMs, regardless of price.....so, best to let your ZS10 sit and see if the diaphragm resets itself.


----------



## TLDRonin

toddy0191 said:


> The DD in the left earpiece on my ZS10s has just failed!!!!
> 
> I always get driver flex with them when inserting them but can adjust them so they sound fine. This time though the sound completely stopped from the DD.
> 
> ...


Oh man. I currently get driver flex on my left side 90% of the time, and almost never on my right side. I've been liking wide bores on them, but they make the driver flex even worse, so I'll switch back to starlines


----------



## tomatosauce (May 1, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> well someone will just have to get both and take them apart and/or compare the sound...  all I know is that I like this QKZ V1



I bought the QKZ VK1 based on your endorsement and the marketing materials (graphene, ~1 tesla magnet, Helmholtz resonating double cavity??, Red Dot product design award, other statements that may have no bearing at all on sound quality but sure sounds sweet) before I saw the comparison with the TRN V10. I'm optimistic that QKZ didn't simply rebrand the V10 but at the end of the day, who cares as long as you enjoy them, right? That being said, companies share reference designs all the time. This article shows what the environment looked like 8 years ago: https://gizmodo.com/5617200/the-secret-scam-of-cheap-earbuds. Granted, much has changed since then. "Cheap earbuds" sound better than ever, far from the "scam" described in the article. Chinese companies like KZ and QKZ (I'm still not sure what their relationship is) have come into their own and consumers are demanding higher quality products at lower prices. This is all a long-winded response to support my unproven theory that the TRN V10 and QKZ VK1 may look similarly on the outside due to the same reference design but may actually have unique engineering on the inside. Now, repeating what was said before, who wants to be the guinea pig who buys both and breaks them down to compare their innards? For the greater good, of course  .


----------



## rayliam80

I received the EDR1 and EDR2 from Gearbest over the weekend. I can't really tell much of a difference between the two other than color and weight. For comfort, I switched the tips to Auvio wide bore on both but for depth, I'm starting to like them even more with triple flange tips. I prefer the EDR2 because of it's lighter weight though neither are particularly heavy. And for the approximately $5 USD I paid for each of these, it's hard not to like them. They are pairing best with my Dragonfly Red on my Macbook Pro compared to the LG V30 quad dac or with the V30 and the DFR connected. Neither of the EDR1 or EDR2 left me fatigued after a few hours of listening to them. Warm, thick and slow bass, a bit thin on vocals at times but somehow a hell of a lot smoother sounding than they ought to be, price-wise.


----------



## lmfboy01

tomatosauce said:


> I bought the QKZ VK1 based on your endorsement and the marketing materials (graphene, ~1 tesla magnet, Helmholtz resonating double cavity??, Red Dot product design award, other statements that may have no bearing at all on sound quality but sure sounds sweet) before I saw the comparison with the TRN V10. I'm optimistic that QKZ didn't simply rebrand the V10 but at the end of the day, who cares as long as you enjoy them, right? That being said, companies share reference designs all the time. This article shows what the environment looked like 8 years ago: https://gizmodo.com/5617200/the-secret-scam-of-cheap-earbuds. Granted, much has changed since then. "Cheap earbuds" sound better than ever, far from the "scam" described in the article. Chinese companies like KZ and QKZ (I'm still not sure what their relationship is) have come into their own and consumers are demanding higher quality products at lower prices. This is all a long-winded response to support my unproven theory that the TRN V10 and QKZ VK1 may look similarly on the outside due to the same reference design but may actually have unique engineering on the inside. Now, repeating what was said before, who wants to be the guinea pig who buys both and breaks them down to compare their innards? For the greater good, of course  .



I got a VK1 on order, no V10 though


----------



## Slater

tomatosauce said:


> Now, repeating what was said before, who wants to be the guinea pig who buys both and breaks them down to compare their innards? For the greater good, of course  .



Since they are crystal clear, it should be easy just to view them non-destructively and make comparisons.

The biggest feature difference is the BA drivers - V10 has 2, VK1 has none.


----------



## toddy0191

DocHoliday said:


> Due to multiple episodes of driver flex with my first set of HDS3's one of the dynamic drivers failed to deliver any output. What worked for me was letting them sit for a few days and the diaphragm reset to its natural state. It was my first set of HDS3's. I ordered two more pair and the seller sent me a replacement pair but after approximately 24-48 hours the diaphragm returned to its natural state and my HDS3 was good as new. I have multiple sets of the HDS3 now but my first set are still going strong and they probably have about 300+ hours on them.
> 
> I had the same problem with my second ED3 "Perfection" and I used the same remedy. I tried to readjust the diaphragm manually on my first ED3 "Perfection" but I just ruined them. I'm still a bit sad about ruining a good set of IEMs, regardless of price.....so, best to let your ZS10 sit and see if the diaphragm resets itself.



Thanks for the advice,  fingers crossed they start working again as I'm not going through the hassle of posting it to China.


----------



## mrmoto050

FyreAudio said:


> that sounds like a load of placebo, cables DO NOT change sound characteristics, they offer an increase in build quality and a very minor change to resistance.


Actually cables can change the noise floor by different impedance properties of wires therefore giving a perceived clearer sound stage and sometimes known to clear up muffling of sound..


----------



## mrmoto050

Podster said:


> I was surprised and really liked it with my PAW5000 and who does not like a nice VJJ
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I've strayed enough so let me get back into the thread


Those VJJB's are awesome imho. Huge sound.


----------



## mrmoto050

mbwilson111 said:


> My red KZ ZS10 arrived in the country this afternoon and is on its way to my local mailing center.  Could be here tomorrow (Tuesday)
> 
> I already have a case ready for them...


They come with a red case just like that one. Maybe a bit smaller.


----------



## Podster (May 1, 2018)

mrmoto050 said:


> Those VJJB's are awesome imho. Huge sound.



They seem to love this amp and for less than $5 they are friggin amazing or might we say VJJ = (Da) Bomb Dang Moto, that case dwarfs your N3!!! @mbwilson111 I got the miss matched blue silicone case with my N3 but it was the leather case that really gives it some class


----------



## mbwilson111

mrmoto050 said:


> They come with a red case just like that one. Maybe a bit smaller.



My red KZ ZS10 is here and burning in.  No case.  We have never had any KZ come with a case and my husband has hundreds of them.... well, maybe not hundreds....

You got one with a case?  From where?  Was it a gift from the seller?


----------



## mrmoto050

mbwilson111 said:


> My red KZ ZS10 is here and burning in.  No case.  We have never had any KZ come with a case and my husband has hundreds of them.... well, maybe not hundreds....
> 
> You got one with a case?  From where?  Was it a gift from the seller?


Mine came with a red case, Bluetooth adapter, and upgraded cables. I purchased on Amazon Pr-Order from Sky Sound. The only issue I ordered Blue and received Red.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BQ2CL5W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> My red KZ ZS10 is here and burning in.  No case.  We have never had any KZ come with a case and my husband has hundreds of them.... well, maybe not hundreds....
> 
> You got one with a case?  From where?  Was it a gift from the seller?


Awaiting your personal impressions regarding the sound output from a musical perspective.


----------



## Strat Rider

Devodonaldson said:


> Awaiting your personal impressions regarding the sound output from a musical perspective.



+1


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> My red KZ ZS10 is here and burning in.  No case.  We have never had any KZ come with a case and my husband has hundreds of them.... well, maybe not hundreds....
> 
> You got one with a case?  From where?  Was it a gift from the seller?


----------



## Asimov90

Otto Motor said:


> The Plextone X41M are no bass canons but the Plextone X36M are...the rest is identical between them.
> https://goo.gl/VEwPNC
> 
> The Plextone X41M are rather natural sounding but lack a bit of a punch.
> ...



I'm gonna get the X36M Plextones then. Thanks, I've been looking forward to getting some serious bass cannons to listen to electronic music.


----------



## C2thew

Yeah burning in my ZS10's as well.  I have to remember to reserve judgement until they settle in.  I remember the ZS6's were terrrrrrible when I first got them.  I even immediately modded them with the micropore tape over the BA drivers.  After awhile, they mellowed out to a better sound.

The ZS10's don't have the immediate wow factor as others have mentioned and the short nozzle does make it slightly difficult to get a good seal.  I'm still trying to put my thoughts together on the ZS10


----------



## Podster

Otto Motor said:


>



That reminds me.............

You ever wonder what inspired Neil and his team Pono-Rone anyone


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 1, 2018)

mrmoto050 said:


> Mine came with a red case, Bluetooth adapter, and upgraded cables. I purchased on Amazon Pr-Order from Sky Sound. The only issue I ordered Blue and received Red.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BQ2CL5W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




I like the red.  My KZ Z10 was ordered from NiceHCK  last week for £25 which is $35.  No extras but it came with the newer brownish braided cable.   The case was a couple of dollars from Amazon but shipped from China. I think it took longer to arrive than the KZs.  I don't know how the KZs got here so quickly!

Getting a good fit and seal with the medium Starlines that were on it.  No time to really listen yet.   Taking advantage of a sunny day here to finish getting the garden planted,.


----------



## adkiller

Received my ZS10s. Had them them burn in for a week using the 1More Assistant app:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onemore.app.smartheadset.android

The thing I find with CIEMs is that they require some good burn-in before they sound any good.
I had this experience with the 1More Triple Drivers, 1More Quad Drivers, Mi Hybrid Pro HD, KZ ZS10 and i-INTO i8.
I own a pair of UE900s and have had them burn-in too, but there was no difference in sound.

While I could just listen to them as I burn-in, I have found that to be ineffective.
I usually listen at 9 (on Sony NWZ-A17) or 20 (on Shanling M3s), volume levels.
The burn-in app burns them progressively at multiple volumes (20-60% volume) using music and noise, over 5 days.
I usually give them an initial listen (an hour or so) then set them to burn-in.
I do not listen to them during burn-ins.
1More recommends their customers to perform burn-ins too.

I do not have access to any audio test equipment and can't scientifically verify any of the above.
But if you do and could do it, that would be great.

Now onto my brief review. 

On initial listen, the ZS10 were:
1. Mids are recessed, almost non-existent, muddy.
2. Pounding bass, gave me a headache.
3. Treble sounded artificial and harsh, but not piercing. Kill4me (Mystery Skulls Remix) was painful to listen to.
4. Vocals sounded husky on almost every music I sampled.
4. Some instruments, like claps and cymbals, sounded fake/artificial.

After burn-in:
1. Mids are slightly recessed, but much clearer.
2. Vocals greatly improved, no longer husky. I could separate out the voices in Heathens (Twenty One Pilots).
3. Treble sounded much more subdued and smoother.
5. Instruments sound natural. Slightly artificial on some string instruments. A huge improvement here.
6. Thumping, but no longer pounding bass. But, bass quality no where near the i8.

Fit:
1. Switched from 3-flange silicone tips to foam tips.
2. Better fit with foam tips, could not get them to stay in my ears using silicone tips.
3. Tested tips before and after burn-in.
4. Even with foam tips, they pop out of ears after a while.

Music sampled:
Heathens - Twenty One Pilots
The Game of Love - Michelle Branch
What You Need - Bring Me the Horizon
Maria Maria - Santana
Strangers - Portishead
All Mine - Portishead
Going Back to Strange - Still Corners
Angel - Theory of a Deadman
Blood Hands - Royal Blood
Communication - The Cardigans
Lovefool - The Cardigans
How Bizarre - OMC
I Wanna Be With You - Mandy Moore
Lust for Life - Lana Del Ray
Kill4Me - Marilyn Manson (Mystery Skulls Remix)

Verdict:
For the price, the sound on the ZS10 is well above its value. Is it a TOTL killer? Hell no. Is it a fun IEM? Yes.
Would I use it as my daily driver? No. I find the fit issues are a huge step back and is what that holds me back from enjoying them.
Also, due to the short nozzles, it pops out of my ears after a while.

I am going to turn these into balanced, so stay tuned for additional impressions.

Thanks for reading!


----------



## Otto Motor

Container left over after patching punched membranes with bike-tube vulcanization kit .


----------



## Slater (May 1, 2018)

mrmoto050 said:


> Those VJJB's are awesome imho. Huge sound.



I thought the VJJV V1 were waaaaay overhyped. Mine sound very mediocre. Better if EQd.

I liked the VJJB K4 better than the V1.


----------



## Otto Motor

More makeshift earphone containers...


----------



## HungryPanda

I like the VJJB N1 with the cable changed for a silver one


----------



## Otto Motor (May 1, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> I always get driver flex with them when inserting them but can adjust them so they sound fine.
> Beware the driver flex!!!



Driver flex, according to Shure, can be avoided when keeping the mouth open while inserting the iems. Some audiophiles rely on German technology to keep their upper plumbing system clear. The solution is a solution. Or is a solution the solution? Just kidding...

P.S. The depicted iem can't have driver flex as it is devoid of a dynamic driver.


----------



## Podster (May 1, 2018)

Slater said:


> I thought the VJJV V1 were waaaaay overhyped. Mine sound very mediocre. Better if EQd.
> 
> Nice move with the patch kit box @Otto Motor
> 
> I liked the VJJB K4 better than the V1.



Or just the right source and power for the V1, I've heard them on thin power and in a word YUCK! K4's are still my favorite wood look iem period Beautimouse Maximuose and a real budgie treat





And before I make the KZ faithful upset on the VJJ postings here is some oldskool KZ





Love the Fisherman's Friend tin @Otto Motor , this here is my favorite tin and I bought half dozen of them and John (JDS Labs) built this awesome and ultr powerful (Dual 9Volts) CMOY for my hard to drive stuff and it was really built to drive the snot out of my AKG 702's


----------



## Slater (May 1, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I like the VJJB N1 with the cable changed for a silver one



Never tried the N1, and I was glad to see they implemented a crossover to control the drivers.

The whole '2 identical drivers with no crossover' thing on the V1 really didn't make any sense to me. Sure, it looks impressive, but (in theory) all that adding a 2nd identical driver (w/no crossover) does is increase the amplitude a few dB (which can also be accomplished by bumping up the volume a notch).



Podster said:


> Or just the right source and power for the V1, I've heard them on thin power and in a word YUCK!



Good point. It's been years since I even used the V1. Maybe I need to bring them out again and try them on some additional sources and/or more power.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I thought the VJJV V1 were waaaaay overhyped. Mine sound very mediocre. Better if EQd.
> 
> I liked the VJJB K4 better than the V1.



The VJJB K4 is very nice.


----------



## loomisjohnson

since hotfi never deigned to actually ship the  zs10s i paid for two months ago, i cancelled and got the zsr on an amazon flash deal. initial impressions: much fun and likely the best kz i've heard to date. in general, these address the major drawbacks of the zst (lifeless, recessed mids) and the zs5 (bloomy lows and lack of energy w/o amping). these are hardly paragons of neutrality or refinement--like the zs5 there's a certain artificiality at the high frequencies, but layering/imaging are very impressive. overall these aren't the ultimate  budget giant killer we all dream of, but a great value nonetheless.


----------



## tomatosauce

loomisjohnson said:


> since hotfi never deigned to actually ship the  zs10s i paid for two months ago, i cancelled and got the zsr on an amazon flash deal. initial impressions: much fun and likely the best kz i've heard to date. in general, these address the major drawbacks of the zst (lifeless, recessed mids) and the zs5 (bloomy lows and lack of energy w/o amping). these are hardly paragons of neutrality or refinement--like the zs5 there's a certain artificiality at the high frequencies, but layering/imaging are very impressive. overall these aren't the ultimate  budget giant killer we all dream of, but a great value nonetheless.



Open question: what tips seem to work best with the ZSR? My pair should be arriving this week .


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 1, 2018)

tomatosauce said:


> Open question: what tips seem to work best with the ZSR? My pair should be arriving this week .



I like the tips that came installed on them.


----------



## riffrafff

tomatosauce said:


> Open question: what tips seem to work best with the ZSR? My pair should be arriving this week .



I use clear double-flange tips on _most_ (not all) of mine, including the ZSR.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use wide bore silicones on my ZSR's


----------



## tomatosauce (May 1, 2018)

tomatosauce said:


> Open question: what tips seem to work best with the ZSR? My pair should be arriving this week .



By this week, I guess I actually meant today! Thanks, USPS (maybe the first time I've ever written that ). First impressions: I agree with @loomisjohnson - the bass and mids as well as layering/imaging are impressive! I also wholeheartedly agree with the description of the highs as sounding somewhat artificial. There's an edge to the highs, which are a bit too sharp for my liking. Putting wide bore KZ Whirlwinds on them actually seemed to accentuate the artificiality to me, so I'm sticking with the default tips. A slight EQ adjustment to tone down the highest frequencies cut down the artificiality significantly, smoothing things out and making my music sound more pleasant and organic (maybe I'm just overly sensitive to sibilance or highs, I'm not sure). Fit-wise, the nozzles on these are huge! I typically like a deeper insertion but it's nearly impossible for me given the size. I'm using the medium tips because switching down to the smalls doesn't provide a good enough seal.

Early verdict: After reducing the treble slightly, these sound great! Very satisfied with my purchase. Given the nozzle size though, those with small ear canals may not find these super comfortable.


----------



## Aparker2005

Loving the ZS10 as I listen more. The not overwhelming highs are a welcome for me. Dave matthews band albums sound amazing on these. 

I asked about my ES4 and they just replied shipping soon.


----------



## kukkurovaca

tomatosauce said:


> I bought the QKZ VK1 based on your endorsement and the marketing materials (graphene, ~1 tesla magnet, Helmholtz resonating double cavity??



So they're basically saying it's an IT01?


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> They seem to love this amp and for less than $5 they are friggin amazing or might we say VJJ = (Da) Bomb…


Which model is $5. Those look like the one with dual DD in a side by side configuration and those are like $15 on Ali. To keep on topic somewhat, didn't KZ make a dual DD side by side configuration model? What was it and how did it sound?


----------



## bsoplinger

tomatosauce said:


> I bought the QKZ VK1 based on your endorsement and the marketing materials (graphene, ~1 tesla magnet, Helmholtz resonating double cavity??,…





kukkurovaca said:


> So they're basically saying it's an IT01?



I purchased the ZhiYin Z5000 because of similar reasons. I was curious how much the technology had to do with the good quality sound of the iBasso IT01 and how much tuning and design choices made a difference. The Z5000 are not as good as the IT01 in my opinion but there most certainly are sonic characteristics in common between them. I'd be hesitant to try the QKZ though. I've always thought of them as an OEM for numerous brands that would then take the bodies and general design, type and number of drivers type stuff, and make their own inexpensive IEM that was in no way equal to the product they produced for whatever company it was.


----------



## Slater (May 1, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Which model is $5. Those look like the one with dual DD in a side by side configuration and those are like $15 on Ali. To keep on topic somewhat, didn't KZ make a dual DD side by side configuration model? What was it and how did it sound?



Are you thinking of the QKZ KD4 (a poorer sounding clone of the UiiSii T8)?

Otherwise, KZ has never made a 2 x Dynamic where both were identical in size. All of their 2 x Dynamics have had slightly different sized drivers - ZS1, ZS2, ZN1, ZN1 Mini, ZSE, etc


----------



## Slater (May 1, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I've always thought of them as an OEM for numerous brands that would then take the bodies and general design, type and number of drivers type stuff, and make their own inexpensive IEM that was in no way equal to the product they produced for whatever company it was.



Close.  Not an OEM, but more of a private labeler (for the most part). So if I had excess stock of some IEM (usually a mediocre sounding, low end ChiFi), QKZ would be willing to repackage them for sale as "QKZs". Usually, they don't even bother to change the logos (for example, numerous Plextones) - just the packaging. They have very few (if any) of their own designs.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> Are you thinking of the QKZ KD4 (a poorer sounding clone of the UiiSii T8)?
> 
> Otherwise, KZ has never made a 2 x Dynamic where both were identical in size. All of their 2 x Dynamics have had slightly different sized drivers - ZS1, ZS2, ZN1, ZN1 Mini, ZSE, etc






 

 


2 × ø8.5mm Dynamic Drivers








My only pair.


 

I think Pod and B9 also have the DT5's.

The DT5 was released in 2015.


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> 2 × ø8.5mm Dynamic Drivers
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I always thought the DT5 was a 1 x co-axial (aka 'dual') dynamic driver, vs 2 x single dynamic drivers (arranged in a push-pull)?

Co-axial 'dual' drivers like these examples:







Anyone know for sure?


----------



## DocHoliday (May 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> I always thought the DT5 was a 1 x co-axial (aka 'dual') dynamic driver, vs 2 x single dynamic drivers (arranged in a push-pull)?
> 
> Co-axial 'dual' drivers like these examples:
> 
> ...



KZ's broken english promotional material didn't give much more detail than what I have posted. Yours is an interesting theory, though. 

I have only one pair of DT5's so pulling them apart isn't an option. Perhaps someone who knows a bit of Chinese could lend a hand and do the research.

In the mean time...


 

...you may be right because the driver housings are on the small side.

*** EDIT ***

In the words of the inimitable DocHolliday, "I beg to differ".

Having given this matter further consideration perhaps the DT5 is equipped with something more akin to Audio Technica's "dual phase push-pull driver system".


 

 

Consider the following:
1) Most Coaxial drivers are fashioned with one larger driver and one smaller driver.


 

TRN V10 


 


2) Audio Technica's "dual phase push-pull driver system" are two drivers of the same size. 
KZ's information specifies one size (8.5mm) for both drivers.


 


This description is pulled from Audio Technica's website on their CKR SonicPro series IEMs.


> Equipped with the world’s first dual phase push-pull driver system, the ATH-CKR10 in-ear headphones deliver high-resolution audio that’s true to the original sound. The unique push-pull system incorporates two facing 13 mm drivers that generate phase-aligned audio signals that are mixed to compensate for each driver’s inefficiencies, while providing an equal and tailored response without artificial coloration. By reducing intermodulation distortion, the push-pull drivers deliver extended frequency response for life-like sound.





This information was pulled from NewAtlas.com


> The ATH-CKR10 models feature a metal-coated titanium housing, which should keep things nice and rigid to help cut down unwanted vibration. Each casing contains two 13 mm dynamic drivers offering a wide frequency response of 5 Hz - 40 kHz, 110 dB per mW sensitivity and impedance of 12 ohms. These out of phase drivers face each other for reduced harmonic distortion and improved response time.
> 
> Audio Technica says that the push-pull arrangement of the ATH-CKR10 in-ear headphones is similar to a design mainly used for subwoofers, where both drivers are mounted inside a ported enclosure and within internal baffles.
> 
> ...



3) KZ's origins (engineer that defected from Audio Technica) 

4) Timing of the DT5 release (2015) vs ATH-CKR SonicPro series (mid to late 2014)..
https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/news/9ed464e7dcb8921c/index.html

If the DT5 does indeed have two 8.5mm drivers in a "dual phase push-pull driver" configuration then it will likely be the first and only KZ with said technology. 

Whichever turns out to be the case I'm glad I have them.


----------



## Aparker2005

ES4 has shipped!


----------



## loomisjohnson

tomatosauce said:


> By this week, I guess I actually meant today! Thanks, USPS (maybe the first time I've ever written that ). First impressions: I agree with @loomisjohnson - the bass and mids as well as layering/imaging are impressive! I also wholeheartedly agree with the description of the highs as sounding somewhat artificial. There's an edge to the highs, which are a bit too sharp for my liking. Putting wide bore KZ Whirlwinds on them actually seemed to accentuate the artificiality to me, so I'm sticking with the default tips. A slight EQ adjustment to tone down the highest frequencies cut down the artificiality significantly, smoothing things out and making my music sound more pleasant and organic (maybe I'm just overly sensitive to sibilance or highs, I'm not sure). Fit-wise, the nozzles on these are huge! I typically like a deeper insertion but it's nearly impossible for me given the size. I'm using the medium tips because switching down to the smalls doesn't provide a good enough seal.
> 
> Early verdict: After reducing the treble slightly, these sound great! Very satisfied with my purchase. Given the nozzle size though, those with small ear canals may not find these super comfortable.


further listening with the zsr reinforces my initial impressions--they're an "exuberant" listen in the sense of throwing out a big, expansive sound. driver coherence isn't very good--the low end, in particular, tends to sound like a separate subwoofer rather than an integrated part of the whole--but they have a ton of prat and have a surprising amount of microdetail; they're excellent for prog, fusion and other densely recorded tunes and less well suited to acoustic fare. where they conspicuously trail the expensive models they're consciously aping is in accuracy and absence of coloration--these do not purport to reproduce the source precisely, but rather present a juiced-up, adrenalized version of the music. which, depending on my mood, suits me fine.


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> Which model is $5. Those look like the one with dual DD in a side by side configuration and those are like $15 on Ali. To keep on topic somewhat, didn't KZ make a dual DD side by side configuration model? What was it and how did it sound?



I must apologize as the V1 was around $15 at the time I bought them but my favorite AliEx seller let me have mine for $5.77 during the 11/11 sale back in 2015. As Slater says all the early double DD KZ iem's were mixed ie: 6mm & 10mm etc. 

You are correct @DocHoliday , plus it would not have mattered how the DT5 sounded as I was in it for their cool looks and gold banding with the Chinese writing on them


----------



## bsoplinger

Are any of the KZ dual, but different sized , side by side designs worth having? The collector (or is that hoarder) in me wants a pair but only if it isn't a waste of the $10-$15 I'd guess they'd cost


----------



## Podster (May 2, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Are any of the KZ dual, but different sized , side by side designs worth having? The collector (or is that hoarder) in me wants a pair but only if it isn't a waste of the $10-$15 I'd guess they'd cost



For less than $10 I don't think the ZSE is a bad spend with it's 6.8mm and 8mm side by side  My favorite dual KZ is the same drivers as the ZSE and of course that's the ZN1 Mini as they are big, light and powerful. Plus who does not love a big bronze garden hose LOL


----------



## Otto Motor (May 2, 2018)

Podster said:


> For less than $10 I don't think the ZSE is a bad spend with it's 6.8mm and 8mm side by side  My favorite dual KZ is the same drivers as the ZSE and of course that's the ZN1 Mini as they are big, light and powerful. Plus who does not love a big bronze garden hose LOL


I have always liked my ZSE. The design is interesting, they fit me well, and the sound is quite good...nice and airy. These are definitely underrated. I paid $8 that was money very well spent.

The big difference to their image is smaller than that of KZ's multi-driver hybrids, but it is robust and coherent.

I'll pull them out for a spin.

I just remember: I like the ZSE so much that I made my own tongue-in-cheek youtube review - Watched by almost 2000 people. And it got praise from Tyll Hertsens from innerfidelity.com.


----------



## Podster

Otto Motor said:


> I have always liked my ZSE. The design is interesting, they fit me well, and the sound is quite good...nice and airy. These are definitely underrated. I paid $8 CAD or so and that was money very well spent.
> 
> The big difference to their image is smaller than that of KZ's multi-driver hybrids, but it is robust and homogeneous.
> 
> ...




Great first video review Otto, you are a card in your older guys Tommy Bahama


----------



## Otto Motor

Podster said:


> Great first video review Otto, you are a card in your older guys Tommy Bahama


I think it was my fourth video after the Swing ie800 review and taking the mickey out of unboxing videos. And none of them was scripted, always first take and right out of my a...Tommy Bahama is a brand for guys above 55...I have not reached that yet but have always made fun of the owners of such shirts.

Here my spoof on unboxing videos - it is like watching grass grow:


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> I always thought the DT5 was a 1 x co-axial (aka 'dual') dynamic driver, vs 2 x single dynamic drivers (arranged in a push-pull)?
> 
> Co-axial 'dual' drivers like these examples:
> 
> ...



Based on further research I have edited my post. The additional information might shed some light on the elusive details regarding the DT5's dual driver configuration.


----------



## C2thew

Any updates to the KZ ZS4's release?  That's the only IEM that I'm really waiting for now since it literally fits my current needs for comfort, fit, and sound (I use my ZS3's for running and with my bluetooth adapter)

The fit for the EDR1, ZS6, and ZS10 is nowhere near as comfortable as the ZS3's (for me) YMMV


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> Are any of the KZ dual, but different sized , side by side designs worth having? The collector (or is that hoarder) in me wants a pair but only if it isn't a waste of the $10-$15 I'd guess they'd cost



ZS1 v1 for sure. ZN1 Mini is good too. They're your typical KZ v-shape, but they have a nice warm, smooth sound. No BA sibilance/treble peaks. They also fit in the ear comfortably (both are based off the same shell), the memory wires actually WORK like they should, and they have good soundstage.


----------



## stryed

tomatosauce said:


> Open question: what tips seem to work best with the ZSR? My pair should be arriving this week .



Oh high, could you compare the Rose North Forest with the Yensen & others in your collection?


----------



## Slater

While I am happy to finally see KZ using graphene drivers in the ES4 (as well as a crossover), I'm quite disappointed to see it uses the same old 30095 BA driver.

 

We'll have to wait and see the impressions as people receive them. But with virtually the same configuration, my fear is it will just be a ZST sound (only with cleaner bass due to the graphene driver). Ssssssibilance and sharp treble. We'll have to see though.

I also have mixed feelings about the automatic inclusion of upgrade cables with many of these IEMs. While it's great for those that don't have any upgrade cables, it's just adding ~$7-$10 to the retail cost. And for those of us with numerous upgrade cables already, it's just needlessly jacking up the price. Sure, the end result is a more 'premium' product, but *I wish KZ would offer a 100% cable-less option for those that want it, like many other manufacturers do.*

Also, the KZ prices seem to keep creeping up higher and higher. What used to be $4-$9 is now commonly $20-$40 or more. Instead of encouraging me to take a chance and buy/collect them (because for the cost of a cup of coffee, who cares), it's making me hold off and wait to hear numerous impressions 1st. I know there are those that like the ZS10, but I am definitely glad I held off on it.

Thoughts? Comments?


----------



## B9Scrambler

The community has been asking for KZ to make higher end products. They've been asking for hybrids. Now that they are people are complaining they're too expensive. They can't win, lol. 

I for one think the increase in performance and features validates the price increase, even if they're over-saturating the brand with too many similar earphones like the ZS5/6/R/T, ES3, ED15, etc. The ZS10 is a breath of fresh, clean, competent air. It's tune is completely different from their recent releases and it improves on their past products in the areas I would expect it to; imaging, layering, and separation. No complaints here.


----------



## rayliam80

Otto Motor said:


> I have always liked my ZSE. The design is interesting, they fit me well, and the sound is quite good...nice and airy. These are definitely underrated. I paid $8 that was money very well spent.
> 
> The big difference to their image is smaller than that of KZ's multi-driver hybrids, but it is robust and coherent.
> 
> ...




How is the ZSE different in sound compared to the EDR1/EDR2? I'm enjoying the EDR2 a lot thanks to you and @Slater


----------



## Aparker2005

I think after I get the ES4, I'll only be getting the 12 driver that's rumored. Unless it's a good pre-order price  I may wait for reviews. But then again I'm enjoying my zs10 more by the day.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> While I am happy to finally see KZ using graphene drivers in the ES4 (as well as a crossover), I'm quite disappointed to see it uses the same old 30095 BA driver.
> 
> 
> We'll have to wait and see the impressions as people receive them. But with virtually the same configuration, my fear is it will just be a ZST sound (only with cleaner bass due to the graphene driver). Ssssssibilance and sharp treble. We'll have to see though.
> ...


Well, it depends. Joe Blow casual earphone buyer will be overwhelmed by the ever growing number of similar-priced models (e.g. ED15 and  ZS4 or was it ES4 or both...I am equally confused). And there are 6 more models accounced for this year. KZ fans and people who don't like money, on the other hand, will be pleased.

Prices are creeping up but there is always the odd sale with substantial discounts - which points to higher markups and profit margins. KZ are still staying out of the competitive $100 segment.

What KZ cannot get achieved is a hybrid iem without obvious flaws that includes a decent midrange. IMO their closest attempt is the ZSR. The ZS10 is yet another mixed bag IMO (see also ZS5 and ZS6). Its progress as pointed out by B9 is great but is tainted IMO by a mediocre, recessed midrange and a lack of cohesion - considering the number of drivers. It's ok, it's good value, but it is still work in progress to me, and will go in the drawer of many. I still prefer the ZSR for "real" listening, which also makes my ZS3, ZST, and ES3 obsolete.

As to "upgrade" cables: not sure whether the new KZ cable is an upgrade - try to untangle it. And I am also not sure whether its production cost is substantially higher compared to the rubber model. That may be pennies. Most  of my $7 upgrade cables including shipping feel more substantial than the new included one. Total cable cost = (cost of upgrade cable) - (cost of rubber cable) = ?

But just like you, I'll take a break to wait and see: ES4, ZS4, hmmmm...let's wait for competent reviews. I speculate they will be nothing special/more of the same, because KZ is interested that people spend more money on their better sounding/better reviewed flagship models.

And, while the 12-driver model has been announced, we should get ready for the 14-driver model just in time for Christmas.


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> The community has been asking for KZ to make higher end products. They've been asking for hybrids. Now that they are people are complaining they're too expensive. They can't win, lol.
> 
> I for one think the increase in performance and features validates the price increase, even if they're over-saturating the brand with too many similar earphones like the ZS5/6/R/T, ES3, ED15, etc. The ZS10 is a breath of fresh, clean, competent air. It's tune is completely different from their recent releases and it improves on their past products in the areas I would expect it to; imaging, layering, and separation. No complaints here.



Good points.

I’m not saying KZ shouldn’t make more expensive/higher end products. I just don’t think ALL of them should be. I mean, look at Rose, VSonic, even Campfire. They have a wider range, from “extreme budget” to “extreme $$”.

I guess I miss the “good old days” when gas was $0.59/gallon, White Castle burgers were $0.25, and a new KZ release was $6.

Heck, just a few short years ago we were discussing if the KZ price difference between X for $4 and Y for $7 was justified. Now that we are creeping into the $40-$60 range, it’s an even bigger and more important question to ask.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 2, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> How is the ZSE different in sound compared to the EDR1/EDR2? I'm enjoying the EDR2 a lot thanks to you and @Slater


The ZSE is airier and more open sounding than the EDR Series. Is it better? I never thought about it but it is good enough to be bought unseen at $7-8.


----------



## tomatosauce (May 2, 2018)

stryed said:


> Oh high, could you compare the Rose North Forest with the Yensen & others in your collection?



My pleasure! For completeness, here's what HungryPanda had to say and what SilverLodestar said. I'll preface my comments by saying that I'm a music lover, not a technician. I like trying out different pairs of earphones to see what they do with my favorite music. That being said, I do have a preferred sound signature best represented (so far) by the iBasso IT01. Among the Rose NF, Yersen FEN-2000, and KZ ZSR (to keep the topic relevant ), I like the way my music sounds with the FEN-2000 and ZSR better vs. the NF. The ZSR has more emphasized treble and bass to me than the FEN-2000 and has a more "exciting" sound. I've had to EQ down the treble a bit on the ZSR because of sensitivity to some upper frequencies. The FEN-2000 is a bit flatter/neutral, has less bass, and more detail/clarity. As I wrote in the Hidden Gems thread, I cannot fully endorse the Yersens at the moment due to QC issues as the right earpiece failed even with very careful use, which is now a pattern, not just an isolated event. In comparison, my impressions of the Rose NF are similar to SilverLodestar's: adequate performer at the price point but nothing special. My music sounds more veiled and muddy with them compared to the FEN-2000 and ZSR. Those who enjoy a darker signature and bass heavy music may get more use out of them but I don't think I'll be reaching for them anytime soon. Hope that helps!


----------



## bsoplinger

I was contemplating the ZSE as a workout alternative to the EDR2s I picked up. I have 3 and so far haven't managed to destroy any although I have managed to get the cable caught a number of times. But it looks like they're disappearing from inventories so I want to stay on top of alternatives. The more I use these the more I'm liking @Slater 's suggestion to just get a couple of pairs of these and not worry about finding sweat-proof specialized expensive IEMs. The initial pair I started out with 3 months ago are going strong still.

The EDR2 stay in my ear even with lots of moving about. For those with the ZSE how well would they stay in my ears?


----------



## Otto Motor

bsoplinger said:


> For those with the ZSE how well would they stay in my ears?


Not sure but they stay in my ears even better than the EDR1/2. But that does not work for everybody.


----------



## Bartig

loomisjohnson said:


> further listening with the zsr reinforces my initial impressions--they're an "exuberant" listen in the sense of throwing out a big, expansive sound. driver coherence isn't very good--the low end, in particular, tends to sound like a separate subwoofer rather than an integrated part of the whole--but they have a ton of prat and have a surprising amount of microdetail; they're excellent for prog, fusion and other densely recorded tunes and less well suited to acoustic fare. where they conspicuously trail the expensive models they're consciously aping is in accuracy and absence of coloration--these do not purport to reproduce the source precisely, but rather present a juiced-up, adrenalized version of the music. which, depending on my mood, suits me fine.


Yes, I find the same thing! I keep on coming back to the spiced up versions of the music the ZSR serves. Also, the spicing up seems to work on every music genre!

Love the ZSR.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> While I am happy to finally see KZ using graphene drivers in the ES4 (as well as a crossover), I'm quite disappointed to see it uses the same old 30095 BA driver.
> 
> 
> We'll have to wait and see the impressions as people receive them. But with virtually the same configuration, my fear is it will just be a ZST sound (only with cleaner bass due to the graphene driver). Ssssssibilance and sharp treble. We'll have to see though.
> ...





Slater said:


> I'm quite disappointed to see it uses the same old 30095 BA driver.



While the 30095 BA treble can be described by many as being too dominant in the ZS6 it is not the case with the ZSR and reportedly not the case with the ZS10 so this appears to be more a matter of tuning via crossover. 



 



Slater said:


> I also have mixed feelings about the automatic inclusion of upgrade cables



The inclusion of better cables is actually something that I've been quite vocal about from time to time. I thoroughly appreciated the sturdy, albeit rubbery, cables that Knowledge Zenith outfitted most of their models with for the last three years (2014 - 2017) because few to zero of my KZ IEMs have failed due to cable connection failures but be aware that 95% of my KZ's have no microphone. If KZ didn't offer the "no mic" version I probably would not have started collecting KZ's the way I do. My experience has been that most failures in IEMs occur at one of the strain reliefs or at the microphone junction so I avoid IEMs with microphones for the most part. Speaking of my own collection, said failures are practically nonexistent due to KZ's well designed strain reliefs. The cables may not look like much but in my eyes they hold up incredibly well (detachable or permanently affixed).

That said about KZ's previous cables I think they made the right choice to upgrade to the cables that are currently being included. If the upgraded cables currently being shipped hold up just as well and the microphonics are kept to a minimum then, to me, it will be worth the few extra dollars. I do wish that KZ would have included the upgrade cable with the ZSR; I can't imagine the ZS10 having the older standby cable. The ZS3 cable that was shipped with the ZS6 was nothing less than scandalous if you ask me so it's high time that KZ tackled this issue sooner rather than later. It would be great if they designed an upgrade cable specifically for the ZS6 and shipped the newly minted ZS6 with said cable......just mark down the existing stock to clear the marketplace of old stock with frumpy cables.

Just as an aside, think back on all the reviews we've read regarding various KZ's. One common thread over the past three years has been the less than flattering remarks about the stock cable. It's time to move forward. 
'


Slater said:


> I wish KZ would offer a 100% cable-less option for those that want it, like many other manufacturers do.



This sounds like a good option, Slater. I must have a dozen or so KZ cables that still haven't seen the light of day. Great suggestion.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I think I'm the only one that legit enjoys KZ's stock cables, haha. The EDse's is the best of the bunch though. Looks similar to their usual stock cable but isn't sticky at all. One of my fav cables of all time.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

You have to keep in mind that most people buying KZs aren't collectors with full inventories of what KZ has already put out.  I'm all for an upgraded cable.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> I guess I miss the “good old days” when gas was $0.59/gallon, White Castle burgers were $0.25, and a new KZ release was $6.



Now you've got my motor running. 

White Castle was the place. 



 

The fries are somewhat forgettable but the onion-laden meat is iconic.


 

No White Castle in California but we've got another iconic burger that's worth the trip.


 


 

.....think I'll put on my ZSR's and head over to In-N-Out for dinner. They literally cut the potatoes just before cooking them so they taste just like "Lay's" classic potato chips. Order the fires with melted cheese and grilled onions to put things over the top.

Love this thread. Day after day......find a need and fill it!


----------



## Slater

Otto Motor said:


> The ZSE is airier and more open sounding than the EDR Series. Is it better? I never thought about it but it is good enough to be bought unseen at $7-8.



I've even seen the ZSE on sale in the $4 range too (11.11 and anniversary sales, gearbest flash sales, etc). At $4 and change, it's a no-brainer.


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I was contemplating the ZSE as a workout alternative to the EDR2s I picked up. I have 3 and so far haven't managed to destroy any although I have managed to get the cable caught a number of times. But it looks like they're disappearing from inventories so I want to stay on top of alternatives. The more I use these the more I'm liking @Slater 's suggestion to just get a couple of pairs of these and not worry about finding sweat-proof specialized expensive IEMs. The initial pair I started out with 3 months ago are going strong still.
> 
> The EDR2 stay in my ear even with lots of moving about. For those with the ZSE how well would they stay in my ears?



ZSE is kind of an oddball fit due to it's oblong shape. It may not fit everyone (some better than others). Don't get me wrong; they're not uncomfortable. Mine just like to loosen themselves for some reason (in my ears anyways; YMMV). It's one of the few IEMs I own that does that, and I can wear any other IEM fine - ZST, ZSR, ZS3, ZS5, ZS6, etc. I have to use foam tips to lock them in my ears - they they don't budge. Unfortunately, I don't like how the foams change the sound, so they sit unused, which is sad because they don't sound that bad.

Note that it's very microphonic, so I prefer to wear mine L/R reversed and behind the ear.

As you said, the EDR1/2 is built like a tank and can take a beating. Don't worry about them running out either - KZ is actively manufacturing both the EDR1 and EDR2. As the old Jay Leno Doritos commercials used to say "_crunch all you want; we'll make more_".

I say just stick with what works


----------



## SciOC

My zs10 arrived today.   I thought I was doing something really stupid putting them in my ears directly after taking out my isine20.   It was surprising.  Price versus performance you would have never guessed that one pair retails for more than 10x the other one.

These are excellent for the price.  I've not broken them in at all yet, and only listened for maybe an hour, but they really surprised me.  The level of detail and staging properties are much better than other sets I've heard under 100 dollars, Dynamics are surprisingly strong as well.  There are a few rough edges, but nothing that EQ can't fix or that burn in won't fix.

So far I'm not disappointed with my first kz purchase.  My zsr arrives Friday, so I'll be adding them quickly....


----------



## Slater

SciOC said:


> My zs10 arrived today.   I thought I was doing something really stupid putting them in my ears directly after taking out my isine20.   It was surprising.  Price versus performance you would have never guessed that one pair retails for more than 10x the other one.
> 
> These are excellent for the price.  I've not broken them in at all yet, and only listened for maybe an hour, but they really surprised me.  The level of detail and staging properties are much better than other sets I've heard under 100 dollars, Dynamics are surprisingly strong as well.  There are a few rough edges, but nothing that EQ can't fix or that burn in won't fix.
> 
> So far I'm not disappointed with my first kz purchase.  My zsr arrives Friday, so I'll be adding them quickly....



I'd be curious to hear your impressions once the ZSRs arrive, and if you still feel the same way about the ZS10 after hearing the ZSR.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> I'd be curious to hear your impressions once the ZSRs arrive, and if you still feel the same way about the ZS10 after hearing the ZSR.



I'm listening to the ZSR as I write this and I stand by my comments regarding comfort and capability.  The juxtaposition of a warm and smooth sound signature sprinkled with a healthy amount of micro-detail make them difficult to put down. Fatigue-free joy for less than $30. Yes, please!



 
Wish they actually came in this color.



> The ZSR is an IEM that is altogether capable, but is more the silent strong type. It is the equivalent of taking a powerful luxury coupe for a cruise. Instead of competing with the athletic types, the ZSR just wafts you around in comfort with little fanfare or ceremony. It's a very capable IEM that focuses mainly on getting the job done and doing so in comfort.


----------



## Sylaw

As we speak im waiting for my Zs10 to arrive.. but i have a small question. Whats the best or maybe  the closest flat + fast sounding   chi-fi iem currently available in the market? ( sub50$ , because i dont believe in chi-fi over 80$ being worthy ) . by flat i mean with less peaks and a bit more mid centric sounding ( because perfect flat dont exist) than rest of the spectrum . Thank you ^_^


----------



## gazzington

Well my zst arrived yesterday. £12 from Amazon. All I can say is, that they are an absolute bargain. Great sound


----------



## snip3r77

Sylaw said:


> As we speak im waiting for my Zs10 to arrive.. but i have a small question. Whats the best or maybe  the closest flat + fast sounding   chi-fi iem currently available in the market? ( sub50$ , because i dont believe in chi-fi over 80$ being worthy ) . by flat i mean with less peaks and a bit more mid centric sounding ( because perfect flat dont exist) than rest of the spectrum . Thank you ^_^


Tinaudio T2


----------



## Bartig (May 3, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I think I'm the only one that legit enjoys KZ's stock cables, haha. The EDse's is the best of the bunch though. Looks similar to their usual stock cable but isn't sticky at all. One of my fav cables of all time.


I love the stock KZ cables as well. Sure, they’re a bit hard to bend over the ear, but of all the cables I have, the original KZ cables are the only ones that never tangle!

Heck, I even swapped the braided KZ ZS10 cable for the simple ZST ones.

#teamoriginalcable


----------



## Sylaw

snip3r77 said:


> Tinaudio T2



how does it stack against the Zs5 v1 and possibly ZS10? in terms of sheer resolution and instrumental separation? or it better than both of them in every aspect?


----------



## acia

SciOC said:


> My zs10 arrived today.   I thought I was doing something really stupid putting them in my ears directly after taking out my isine20.   It was surprising.  Price versus performance you would have never guessed that one pair retails for more than 10x the other one.
> 
> These are excellent for the price.  I've not broken them in at all yet, and only listened for maybe an hour, but they really surprised me.  The level of detail and staging properties are much better than other sets I've heard under 100 dollars, Dynamics are surprisingly strong as well.  There are a few rough edges, but nothing that EQ can't fix or that burn in won't fix.
> 
> So far I'm not disappointed with my first kz purchase.  My zsr arrives Friday, so I'll be adding them quickly....


Makes me audeze fanboy wondering why need to spend more than 10x or 20x more.  

Bought over dozens of kz now.


----------



## slowth

May I know which model of spinfit will fit the ZS10?


----------



## bsoplinger

Sylaw said:


> As we speak im waiting for my Zs10 to arrive.. but i have a small question. Whats the best or maybe  the closest flat + fast sounding   chi-fi iem currently available in the market? ( sub50$ , because i dont believe in chi-fi over 80$ being worthy ) . by flat i mean with less peaks and a bit more mid centric sounding ( because perfect flat dont exist) than rest of the spectrum . Thank you ^_^


You can do rather well with the Yersen FEN-2000 or the TRN V20, either under $25. Neither is flat but the V is rather shallow so they allow mids to be reasonable. Nice bass and sub bass that's a bit extra but doesn't muck with the mids very much nor very often. Acceptable highs. 

Not to funny but you could have bought both for about $5 more than you paid for the ZS10 unless you got a really special deal on it. And both will sound better in my opinion. I own all 3. I find the ZS10 to be quite acceptable. But for the current non-sale price of $45 to be a horrible purchase because there are much better choices. Those I've mentioned. The TIN Audio T2 for about $5 (you can get it for less if you have a spare MMCX cable).


----------



## loomisjohnson

Bartig said:


> Yes, I find the same thing! I keep on coming back to the spiced up versions of the music the ZSR serves. Also, the spicing up seems to work on every music genre!
> 
> Love the ZSR.


sonically, at least, the zsr renders the zst and zs3 obsolete, with much better mids than the former and more extension and detail than the latter. howsoever, the comfort and fit on the zst and zs3 are superior--i'm not sure why kz went with such an odd bulbous shape for the zsr. the zst does isolate very well and makes a great gym piece, esp. after removing the memory wire


----------



## RolledOff (May 3, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I was contemplating the ZSE as a workout alternative to the EDR2s I picked up.
> ...
> The EDR2 stay in my ear even with lots of moving about. For those with the ZSE how well would they stay in my ears?



for the workout (on elliptical trainer), I always use ZSE, good seal and it stays on my ear
only have EDR1 not EDR2
I like the sound of EDR1 over ZSE, but for workout i prefer ZSE


----------



## avionzero

Is the connector (red color) 
 of the Zs10 really moving or is it just mine?


----------



## nxnje

Is thwre someone of you that tried **** UE or UEs? They're custom iems made by **** and they're very affordable.
Have someone of u tried them and can say if they sound similar to any kz model?

Thank you for the answer, hoping there will be.


----------



## slowth

avionzero said:


> Is the connector (red color)  of the Zs10 really moving or is it just mine?



Can I get the
Model of those spinfit? I’ve only recently gotten to know about these


----------



## DSebastiao

Currently i have the ZST's, is it worth it to get the ZSR? How do they compare?


----------



## avionzero

slowth said:


> Can I get the
> Model of those spinfit? I’ve only recently gotten to know about these



It's not Spinfit, just ordinary tips that came with the EDR1


----------



## snip3r77

DSebastiao said:


> Currently i have the ZST's, is it worth it to get the ZSR? How do they compare?



Consider tin audio t2


----------



## loomisjohnson

nxnje said:


> Is thwre someone of you that tried **** UE or UEs? They're custom iems made by **** and they're very affordable.
> Have someone of u tried them and can say if they sound similar to any kz model?
> 
> Thank you for the answer, hoping there will be.


i have the ues and it's a very impressive piece--neutral and balanced. not a lot of bass impact, but very accurate and detailed. the closest kz to it would probably be something like the ed2r or ate, which are relatively balanced, but the ues is more refined. i haven't heard the ue, which is a single dynmaic and supposedly a bassier tuning.


----------



## nxnje

loomisjohnson said:


> i have the ues and it's a very impressive piece--neutral and balanced. not a lot of bass impact, but very accurate and detailed. the closest kz to it would probably be something like the ed2r or ate, which are relatively balanced, but the ues is more refined. i haven't heard the ue, which is a single dynmaic and supposedly a bassier tuning.



I like the way they are built!


----------



## Otto Motor

Bartig said:


> Heck, I even swapped the braided KZ ZS10 cable fo the simple ZST ones.
> 
> #teamoriginalcable



Great, I have never had any issues with the different kinds of the KZ rubber stock cable either. The striped one coming with the ZSR is just fine. As I wrote before, I don't think the new one is much more expensive to produce, it is just different. It is an upgrade possibly in terms of reduced microphonics, but I also never had any problems with that either. In terms of tangling up and untangling it, the new one is certainly not an upgrade at all.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 3, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> i have the ues and it's a very impressive piece--neutral and balanced. not a lot of bass impact, but very accurate and detailed. the closest kz to it would probably be something like the ed2r or ate, which are relatively balanced, but the ues is more refined. i haven't heard the ue, which is a single dynmaic and supposedly a bassier tuning.


My UES are coming tomorrow. Your colleague Vidal doesn't appear to like them much according to his quickie. Their precessedor, the UE are the highest rated earphones on thephonograph.net, even higher than the ZS10. BUT: their criticism is that the mids are not quite audiophile grade. Hope this was improved in the UES.

You said they are coming close to the UE900S.

Well, we will find out soon. I have also signed up to write a review as I had bargained down the price by $7 (the present market value of a review of mine). I feel they certainly deserve another thorough head fi review including some measurements.


----------



## Bartig

Sylaw said:


> how does it stack against the Zs5 v1 and possibly ZS10? in terms of sheer resolution and instrumental separation? or it better than both of them in every aspect?


The T2 has a way better instrument separation and placement than the ZS5 and even ZS10. However, the tradeoff is bass. If you like the full sound of the ZS5, you may have a hard time switching to the T2. It may let you down on EDM and some electronic pop music.



DSebastiao said:


> Currently i have the ZST's, is it worth it to get the ZSR? How do they compare?


Haha, I wrote this before, but that's okay.  ZST + thick bass + detailed mids + better soundstage - piercing highs = ZSR. It comes recommended.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Otto Motor said:


> My UES are coming tomorrow. Your colleague Vidal doesn't appear to like them much according to his quickie. Their precessedor, the UE are the highest rated earphones on thephonograph.net, even higher than the ZS10. BUT: their criticism is that the mids are not quite audiophile grade. Hope this was improved in the UES.
> 
> You said they are coming close to the UE900S.
> 
> Well, we will find out soon. I have also signed up to write a review as I had bargained down the price by $7 (the present market value of a review of mine). I feel they certainly deserve another thorough head fi review including some measurements.


will look forward to your review


----------



## Strat Rider (May 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> I'd be curious to hear your impressions once the ZSRs arrive, and if you still feel the same way about the ZS10 after hearing the ZSR.



I'm with @Slater. I didn't go for the ZS10 yet...  Not enough positives to make me want to let the moths out of my wallet just yet.

As far as the ZSR, After A/B-ing (edit, that would be A,B,C-ing) my 2 different mods of ZS6, and stock ZSR, I am still enjoying the ZSR the most of all.

As far as the KZ 30095 BA, the graphic explains 30% better midrange performance, over ???
To my ears, I'm listening for another 20%.......again so far ZSR is closest.


----------



## themindfreak

slowth said:


> May I know which model of spinfit will fit the ZS10?


Cp100


----------



## DocHoliday (May 3, 2018)

Bartig said:


> ZST + thick bass + detailed mids + better soundstage - piercing highs = ZSR. It comes recommended.



For those that are curious about upgrading from the ZST this is probably the most succinct description of the ZSR. 

The ZSR's voluminous bass lends more depth to the sound signature but I still think KZ should release a variation of the ZSR with the 8mm DD in place of the 10mm DD currently employed.They can even issue it in the same exact housing; just upgrade the material to ceramic [like the ZS5 (plastic) to the ZS6 (machined aluminum)]. 

I know that KZ currently has too many irons in the fire but it has always been their way. The ZSR is a very, very good listen and I bet swapping the 10mm DD for an 8mm DD would give them a more clean sound signature with an even greater sense of openness and air. The 8mm dynamic driver's bass is faster/cleaner but it can still punch and the end result may just push the midrange to the forefront which would give the IEM a slightly inverted "V" sound signature. I wouldn't mind trading a smidge of the ZSR's warmth to accommodate acoustic and classical fare.

Hint.....hint KZ!









Spoiler


----------



## Otto Motor (May 3, 2018)

Bartig said:


> The T2 has a way better instrument separation and placement than the ZS5 and even ZS10. However, the tradeoff is bass.


The interesting part is that so-called audiophiles - people who spend $$$$$$ on iems - find a realistic, that is a non-emphasized bass "better". I am cautious as there is a lots of personal preference in the bass perception...but with my increasing listening experience, I am siding more and more with the "audiophiles" (Where is all agree is that a "controlled" bass is more desirable). And I am sure T2's tuning is intentional.

Example: I got the (now discontinued) Fostex TE-02, an earphone that is hailed for being the prototype of a cheap, neutrally tuned earphone (The T2 has taken over this role now). I disliked my Fostex for the first 1/2 year because I didn't understand its sound signature. And now I treasure it.

Never stop developing!

As to comparing the T2 with the ZS10. Quite frankly, beats me so out of my memory other than that the T2 are more fluid and homogeneous sounding...and their stage is wiiiiiiiiiiider!


----------



## Otto Motor (May 3, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> For those that are curious about upgrading from the ZST this is probably the most succinct description of the ZSR.
> 
> The ZSR's voluminous bass lends more depth to the sound signature but I still think KZ should release a variation of the ZSR with the 8mm DD in place of the 10mm DD currently employed.They can even issue it in the same exact housing; just upgrade the material to ceramic [like the ZS5 (plastic) to the ZS6 (machined aluminum)].
> 
> ...



Your observations are always interesting and you should consider backing them up with measurements. It would be interesting to compare FR curves between the HDS1 and ZSR. On that note, I am getting my own Dayton IMM6 calibrated microphone ($24 on amazon.com).


----------



## DocHoliday (May 3, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Your observations are always interesting and you should consider backing them up with measurements. It would be interesting to compare FR curves between the HDS1 and ZSR. On that note, I am getting my own Dayton IMM6 calibrated microphone ($24 on amazon.com).



There's no way to measure a nonexistent IEM but it is reasonable to expect that a decrease in the volume of sub-bass in the ear canal will allow the mid and higher frequencies to come forth because they aren't being overshadowed or masked by voluminous lower frequencies.

I like the ZSR the way it is because it works.......in fact it works well. That said, I believe there would be a commensurate demand for what I describe above and a more premium version would be a welcome addition when you consider how well received the plastic model is doing.

The ZSR:


 


 

My proposal (ESR?):


 


 

Funny thing is 80% of the work is already done; it's just a matter of swapping materials and fine-tuning the sound signature. Skew the lower frequencies from a sub-bass bias to a clean mid-bass bias with sufficient sub-bass presence so the midrange and lower-treble can hover just above the lower frequencies.


----------



## DSebastiao

Bartig said:


> Haha, I wrote this before, but that's okay.  ZST + thick bass + detailed mids + better soundstage - piercing highs = ZSR. It comes recommended.



Ah sorry bro, i knew someone answered me this, but it was some time ago and this thread gets so many pages per week that i didn't have a clue where to look for. Thanks, i like that, will miss some of the piercing highs, but it should be less fatiguing.


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> There's no way to measure a nonexistent IEM but it is reasonable to expect that a decrease in the volume of sub-bass in the ear canal will allow the mid and higher frequencies to come forth because they aren't being overshadowed or masked by voluminous lower frequencies.
> 
> I like the ZSR the way it is because it works.......in fact it works well. That said, I believe there would be a commensurate demand for what I describe above and a more premium version would be a welcome addition when you consider how well received the plastic model is doing.
> 
> ...


I think I need a glass of wine with my lunch


----------



## DocHoliday (May 3, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I think I need a glass of wine with my lunch



Both of the wines posted are in The Wine Spectators Too 100 and they are  $30 or less  per bottle. 

Of course, depending on the lunch menu, this is equally satisfying.


----------



## durwood (May 3, 2018)

I like the T2 for it's clarity and resolution, I agree it probably shines in the midrange due to being less bass heavy. The Tinaudio T2 reminds me of my sennheiser 598CS, in the bass area where you can hear it, but it not overpowering, and some find it too rolled off. I like the more bass heavy ones either for lower level listening or the reverse such as noisy environments where the bass can get lost. I do find the ZSR as one of my favorite KZ ones, it stays put and the shape works ok. I was worried the large diameter nozzle would hurt and the shape would not fit, but it works, and the sound signature is great for me. I agree they replace my ZST as the go to in the sound department, but the ZST is a tad more comfortable still. I find myself bouncing around between urbanfun hifi, TRN v20, and ZSR right now. The ZS6 is nice but I would only use them for low level listening or with EQ I could tolerate higher listening levels.

I did receive my red no mic ZS10's, and I am still trying to find my thoughts on sound for them because they are tuned so differently than my recently acquired IEMS. I wish the nozzle was a little longer, I think someone else said they don't stay put in the ear very well, and I am finding the same thing even with tips that normally work for me. The highs are definitely non-fatiguing even at high volumes, but the midbass might be a bit much for some. I think it gives the midrange a fuller sound, I think others might describe this as the mid-bass bleeding into the midrange? I will say with the extra drivers, they handle the volume with ease. That's all I have for now.


----------



## bsoplinger

For inexpensive with just a slight V instead of the more typical deep V under $50 IEMs I recommend either the TRN V20 or Yersen FEN-2000 both of which are under $30. The TIN Audio T2 is around $50 with cable under $40 without in case you have a spare MMCX cable to use.

Folks who read this thread will remember that I have fitment issues with some IEMs. The ZS5 / ZS6 are particularly problematic for me. One type of ear tip that got mentioned was a silicone with a fuzzy, soft coating on the exterior (flossed). I think @Slater even managed to toss up a link although he'd never gotten any. Long story short, I had recently received the ZhiYin Z5000 (which I got because they use the same high magnetic field Tesla design as the iBasso IT01 which I love and is probably the current darling $100 Chi-Fi) and they provided an interesting ear tip choice. Turns out it worked nicely with the ZS6 and I prefer this over foamies. 

ZhiYin provided a medium silicone tip, standard bore, very much the typical cheap silicone ear tip. But they'd taken one of those foam ear bud covers and put it over the silicone tip. Basically they created that flossed style ear tip. These work well for difficult to fit IEMs. You get the better seal and good bass that you'd get from a silicone tip but the soft ear bud cover makes it more comfortable like a foamie. The thin bit of foam doesn't seem to cut much if any of the mids and highs which is the drawback to foamies for me. I did use cheap wide bore versus the standard bore silicone tips for the ones I ultimately used.

I did a quick search here and found a picture from an unpackaging set of the Z5000 and you can sort of see a bulbous, round silicone type tip. That's the tip with the ear bud cover over it. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-357#post-13930433


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> They can even issue it in the same exact housing; just *upgrade the material to ceramic* [like the ZS5 (plastic) to the ZS6 (machined aluminum)].



I would totally be down for ceramic housing!

Be aware that it is very expensive to make the molds for ceramic bodies, and production itself requires special (costly) facilities. You have to commit to a very large production run to recoup the costs (or else charge more per piece). That's why we see very few ceramic housings.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> For inexpensive with just a slight V instead of the more typical deep V under $50 IEMs I recommend either the TRN V20 or Yersen FEN-2000 both of which are under $30. The TIN Audio T2 is around $50 with cable under $40 without in case you have a spare MMCX cable to use.



In case people are willing to wait for the Ailexpress sales that happen a few times a year, I paid $27 for my T2 during the anniversary sale.

They are also around that price during 11.11, and other times (black friday/cyber monday, and I think 1 other time maybe around July for some other holiday/sale).


----------



## DocHoliday (May 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> I would totally be down for ceramic housing!
> 
> Be aware that it is very expensive to make the molds for ceramic bodies, and production itself requires special (costly) facilities. You have to commit to a very large production run to recoup the costs (or else charge more per piece). That's why we see very few ceramic housings.



I wholeheartedly agree. I'm willing to bet that "ROCK" farmed out the fabrication for the Rock Zircon.  If KZ wants to make it happen the resources are available.......at a price. When one considers that the Rock Zircon was in the sub-$20 price bracket "before" they sold thousands of Zircons I'd say it's well within the realm of possibility to offer a premium variation of the IEM proposed.  

KZ can farm out the fabrication and do periodic quality control checks.

......oops......there's the rub.....QC!


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Both of the wines posted are in The Wine Spectators Too 100 and they are  $30 or less  per bottle.
> 
> Of course, depending on the lunch menu, this is equally satisfying.



My former family brewery (1899 - 1968)....with classic Canadian comment.


----------



## Slater (May 3, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I wholeheartedly agree. I'm willing to bet that "ROCK" farmed out the fabrication for the Rock Zircon.  If KZ wants to make it happen the resources are available.......at a price. When one considers that the Rock Zircon was in the sub-$20 price bracket "before" they sold thousands of Zircons I'd say it's well within the realm of possibility to offer a premium variation of the IEM proposed.
> 
> KZ can farm out the fabrication and do periodic quality control checks.
> 
> ......oops......there's the rub.....QC!



You're right - if Rock could pull it off and make it profitable, KZ certainly could. I would also love to see another copper-bodied IEM. The ED9 was very successful; an updated version doesn't even have to have changeable filters

*KZ, are you reading this?? Could you consider a ceramic or copper housing please?
*
P.S. - Hilarious movie BTW. Not everyone appreciates its satire. Funny fact, production was so incredibly difficult due to the marionettes, Matt and Trey vowed never to make another movie as long as they lived. Every time I see the Gary (with his hack-job transformation) flailing his arms trying to give the signal in the back of the jeep as they shoot at him, I spit beer out of my nose LOL


----------



## Otto Motor

durwood said:


> I did receive my red no mic ZS10's, and I am still trying to find my thoughts on sound for them because they are tuned so differently than my recently acquired IEMS. I wish the nozzle was a little longer, I think someone else said they don't stay put in the ear very well, and I am finding the same thing even with tips that normally work for me. The highs are definitely non-fatiguing even at high volumes, but the midbass might be a bit much for some. I think it gives the midrange a fuller sound, I think others might describe this as the mid-bass bleeding into the midrange? I will say with the extra drivers, they handle the volume with ease. That's all I have for now.



I took my ZS10 out last night for a spin - in order to validate my head fi review of it. And yes, I wouldn't change anything. In short, after a while of listening I was totally dissatisfied by the overall impression. Sure, the resolution, layering, and imaging are very good, and the image is big, but the lack of coherence is appalling to my ears. Bass and mids are constantly fighting each other....and the bass always wins.

I then used my ZSR. Again, technically not as advanced as the ZS10 but simply ear candy in comparison.  Sorry, can't help it.


----------



## SciOC

Otto Motor said:


> I took my ZS10 out last night for a spin - in order to validate my head fi review of it. And yes, I wouldn't change anything. In short, after a while of listening I was totally dissatisfied by the overall impression. Sure, the resolution, layering, and imaging are very good, and the image is big, but the lack of coherence is appalling to my ears. Bass and mids are constantly fighting each other....and the bass always wins.
> 
> I then used my ZSR. Again, technically not as advanced as the ZS10 but simply ear candy in comparison.  Sorry, can't help it.


use some EQ. I listened my first session with no EQ, and found the mids to be too recessed and laid back.   Also there was some sibilance.  Listening to Ellie Goulding, for instance, was not very fun.  EQ basically fixed these issues, the coherence between bass and mids is still a problem, but honestly, I think it's hard to pair a DD with BA and not have some level of difficulty due to the way they produce sound.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> You're right - if Rock could pull it off and make it profitable, KZ certainly could. I would also love to see another copper-bodied IEM. The ED9 was very successful; an updated version doesn't even have to have changeable filters
> 
> *KZ, are you reading this?? Could you consider a ceramic or copper housing please?
> *
> P.S. - Hilarious movie BTW. Not everyone appreciates its satire. Funny fact, production was so incredibly difficult due to the marionettes, Matt and Trey vowed never to make another movie as long as they lived. Every time I see the Gary (with his hack-job transformation) flailing his arms trying to give the signal in the back of the jeep as they shoot at him, I spit beer out of my nose LOL



For the ED9 upgrade/redesign, I think a good move would be to offer wood housing. Ebony, Walnut, etcetera but I think they should still offer swappable filters. Now that KZ has graphene dynamic drivers to work with I think a single graphene DD would likely continue the legacy of KZ offering a fantastic sounding yet inexpensive single DD IEM. 

KZ, JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE!  SOMETIMES MORE IS LESS!



> Every time I see the Gary (with his hack-job transformation) flailing his arms trying to give the signal in the back of the jeep as they shoot at him, I spit beer out of my nose LOL



The scenes that makes me spew fluids.


Spoiler


----------



## toddy0191

@DocHoliday no joy with the ZS10 the DD is dead as a door nail still.

AK Audio are being very stubborn and will only accept me returning it for repair. I explained that the cost of tracked shipping from the UK makes this quite costly and offered to pay half of what I originally paid for them to send a replacement, to which they replied that I could buy a new set for $32!!!!!

Worst cs I've had so far from a AE seller.


----------



## rokushoo

I want to get new tips for my ATRs, but I'm not sure if I should go with the Whirlwind or the Starline tips. I'm curious to know what most people prefer between the two for the ATR. If it helps I tend to prefer a more neutral sound. Also my ATRs are the ones with the red shelled driver if that makes any difference.


----------



## Otto Motor

toddy0191 said:


> @DocHoliday no joy with the ZS10 the DD is dead as a door nail still.
> 
> AK Audio are being very stubborn and will only accept me returning it for repair. I explained that the cost of tracked shipping from the UK makes this quite costly and offered to pay half of what I originally paid for them to send a replacement, to which they replied that I could buy a new set for $32!!!!!
> 
> Worst cs I've had so far from a AE seller.


I had similar issues with my seller after the MMCX contacts of my Tinaudio T2 came loose. I contacted Tinaudio per their Facebook site...and voila...a new pair will be in the mail, soon. Try to get into contact with Knowledge Zenith directly - and explain them why this is no good advertisement for them as it stands.


----------



## durwood

Otto Motor said:


> I took my ZS10 out last night for a spin - in order to validate my head fi review of it. And yes, I wouldn't change anything. In short, after a while of listening I was totally dissatisfied by the overall impression. Sure, the resolution, layering, and imaging are very good, and the image is big, but the lack of coherence is appalling to my ears. Bass and mids are constantly fighting each other....and the bass always wins.
> 
> I then used my ZSR. Again, technically not as advanced as the ZS10 but simply ear candy in comparison.  Sorry, can't help it.


That could be why I prefer my ZSR over the ZS10 as well. There is this weird texture thing between the bass and midrange I cannot put my finger on, I don't know if I hate it or not. So most likely the dynamic driver to balanced armature 50096 transition? We don't actually know the crossover points. Up until this point KZ has only used their 30095 with varying dynamic drivers right? The ZSR is the only other one they mention using 2 different BA's, but they are not specific enough to mention models. I am wondering if coherency is something that would show up in measurements somewhere because...well...I like measurements too. Is it not coherent because of the crossover point, or is there a physical distance issue that causes timing differences?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> I had similar issues with my seller after the MMCX contacts of my Tinaudio T2 came loose. I contacted Tinaudio per their Facebook site...and voila...a new pair will be in the mail, soon. Try to get into contact with Knowledge Zenith directly - and explain them why this is no good advertisement for them as it stands.



KZ's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/kzacoustics.hk/


----------



## toddy0191

B9Scrambler said:


> KZ's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/kzacoustics.hk/


Cheers!!


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 3, 2018)

rokushoo said:


> I want to get new tips for my ATRs, but I'm not sure if I should go with the Whirlwind or the Starline tips. I'm curious to know what most people prefer between the two for the ATR. If it helps I tend to prefer a more neutral sound. Also my ATRs are the ones with the red shelled driver if that makes any difference.



I  have medium Starlines on my ATR.

You could try both yourself and see what you like best.  Your ears will not be the same as someone elses.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> @DocHoliday no joy with the ZS10 the DD is dead as a door nail still.
> 
> AK Audio are being very stubborn and will only accept me returning it for repair. I explained that the cost of tracked shipping from the UK makes this quite costly and offered to pay half of what I originally paid for them to send a replacement, to which they replied that I could buy a new set for $32!!!!!
> 
> Worst cs I've had so far from a AE seller.



What about the buyer protection/dispute on Aliexpress? That's pretty straight forward.


----------



## Slater (May 3, 2018)

rokushoo said:


> I want to get new tips for my ATRs, but I'm not sure if I should go with the Whirlwind or the Starline tips. I'm curious to know what most people prefer between the two for the ATR. If it helps I tend to prefer a more neutral sound. Also my ATRs are the ones with the red shelled driver if that makes any difference.



At $1/set, you can always try both. I have found that on ATE and ATR the whirlwinds work best (Tennmak Whirlwind > KZ Whirlwind). YMMV though.

The secret is to push them all the way down so the nozzle is even with the tip, like this:




This allows the sound to be as close to the eardrum as possible (=awesomeness).

Obviously, you can experiment with what works for you though. The above is advice @CoiL has been giving for years now, and I have found it is solid advice. He is the definitive ATE/ATR whisperer


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> In case people are willing to wait for the Ailexpress sales that happen a few times a year, I paid $27 for my T2 during the anniversary sale.
> 
> They are also around that price during 11.11, and other times (black friday/cyber monday, and I think 1 other time maybe around July for some other holiday/sale).



At the most recent Aliexpress sale, with a combination of shop discount + coupons + total value purchase discount(s), I paid about US$28/- for mine.  

I paid just under US$30/- for the ZS10 in the same purchase. 



Otto Motor said:


> I took my ZS10 out last night for a spin - in order to validate my head fi review of it. And yes, I wouldn't change anything. In short, after a while of listening I was totally dissatisfied by the overall impression. Sure, the resolution, layering, and imaging are very good, and the image is big, but the lack of coherence is appalling to my ears. Bass and mids are constantly fighting each other....and the bass always wins.
> 
> I then used my ZSR. Again, technically not as advanced as the ZS10 but simply ear candy in comparison.  Sorry, can't help it.



From what I've read from your descriptions and what I have experienced of the ZS10 myself,  you need better source/ playback gear. That iPhone of yours doesn't cut it with the ZS10. 

Its pretty dull sounding straight off a normal handphone jack, even with volume pushed a little. It comes on its own with some extra power delivered to it.  

Straight off phone jack, it was sounding less than impressive but on "external device" mode on my LG G6, it begins to shine.  Then it came on its own when I plugged it into my portable DAC amp based on the 9028Q2M that is rated at 1W @ 16 Ohm.  And it was a really sweet sounding thing plugged into my 9038Pro based desktop DAC Amp. You get all those layers that you never expect to hear from any audio transducer at this price range. 

Phone Jack > "External Device"mode > 1W@16 Ohm portable DAC > Desktop DAC Amp. 

Also, its isolation isn't anywhere near that great. A lot of the details and nuances just can't be discerned while listening to them on the move. Unless I turned the volume up.  Its shallow nozzle and bulbous shape probably made things even more difficult in getting a good seal.


----------



## Otto Motor

maxxevv said:


> At the most recent Aliexpress sale, with a combination of shop discount + coupons + total value purchase discount(s), I paid about US$28/- for mine.
> 
> I paid just under US$30/- for the ZS10 in the same purchase.
> 
> ...



The ZS10 is not source sensitive...it may tighten the bass a bit but that's it.

See here:
https://goo.gl/7J5kZE

And I have used different sources as you could have read in my review:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10.23034/reviews

What would possibly help is lower-quality ears.


----------



## slowth

themindfreak said:


> Cp100


Thanks!


----------



## SciOC

How do you feel about the zs10 versus it01?  Honestly I think the zs10 has more detail and better staging, but isn't tuned as well.  I'm wondering if you got a particularly crappy pair....  I got a blue pair so maybe you got a lemon (your review shows a black pair)....  Also, I've mainly used my cayin n3, so I may even be understimating how recessed the mids are....  Not as bad as nuforce EDC, but definitely could have been tweaked.  EQ helps a lot to center vocals.....


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> At the most recent Aliexpress sale, with a combination of shop discount + coupons + total value purchase discount(s), I paid about US$28/- for mine.
> 
> I paid just under US$30/- for the ZS10 in the same purchase.
> 
> ...



I think you meant:

Desktop DAC Amp > 1W@16 Ohm portable DAC > "External Device"mode > Phone Jack


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (May 3, 2018)

rokushoo said:


> I want to get new tips for my ATRs, but I'm not sure if I should go with the Whirlwind or the Starline tips. I'm curious to know what most people prefer between the two for the ATR. If it helps I tend to prefer a more neutral sound. Also my ATRs are the ones with the red shelled driver if that makes any difference.


I don't have the ATRs so I can't speak specifically of those but FWIW I find that very few IEMs work well with the Whirlwinds. They have a very wide and short tube so they tend to slip off most earphones and when they don't slip off, they may still slide back and forth. Then there's the question of whether they'll make a good seal when they do fit. OTOH the Starlines are the exact opposite with a much narrower and longer tube so they tend to stay put. I also find them very easy to get a good seal with.

I understand you were talking about what sound you want from your tips but sound is irrelevant until you get the fit right. Honestly, you can get both Starlines and Whirlwinds on Aliexpress for ~$1 so why not try both.

There are plenty of other good tips out there but many of them cost more. Personally, I use either Starlines or JVC Spiral Dots on all my earphones because they're among the few that are large enough to give me a good seal.


----------



## rokushoo

mbwilson111 said:


> I  have medium Starlines on my ATR.
> 
> You could try both yourself and see what you like best.  Your ears will not be the same as someone elses.





Slater said:


> At $1/set, you can always try both. I have found that on ATE and ATR the whirlwinds work best (Tennmak Whirlwind > KZ Whirlwind). YMMV though.
> 
> The secret is to push them all the way down so the nozzle is even with the tip, like this:
> 
> ...


  Thanks guys! I will get myself a set of each and see what I like better. As Slater mentioned at $1 a set i won't be loosing much if they don't work for me. I'm currently using a set of tips from some cheap Walmart iem that broke a while ago. I think the ATR sounds a little better using them than with the stock tips, but I still want to try out some other tips with them.


----------



## durwood (May 3, 2018)

SciOC said:


> I'm wondering if you got a particularly crappy pair....  I got a blue pair so maybe you got a lemon (your review shows a black pair)....  .


 I would rule that out, his measurements posted in his review are pretty darn close to what I measured for the red ones.  I would just call it a case of different ears, different folks.


----------



## TLDRonin

DocHoliday said:


> For the ED9 upgrade/redesign, I think a good move would be to offer wood housing. Ebony, Walnut, etcetera but I think they should still offer swappable filters. Now that KZ has graphene dynamic drivers to work with I think a single graphene DD would likely continue the legacy of KZ offering a fantastic sounding yet inexpensive single DD IEM.
> 
> KZ, JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE!  SOMETIMES MORE IS LESS!
> 
> ...



Team America was something else...


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> At $1/set, you can always try both. I have found that on ATE and ATR the whirlwinds work best (Tennmak Whirlwind > KZ Whirlwind). YMMV though.
> 
> The secret is to push them all the way down so the nozzle is even with the tip, like this:
> 
> ...



I like to push mine all the way down too. The only set I've had an issue with that though are the ZS6 (probably due to the odd shape). I did try something new with my ZS6s over the past couple of days. I covered half of the inner vent (like y'all suggested several pages back) with clear tape. Tried that for a day with a little improvement. Today I also took off the torx screws and covered half of the outer vents with tape as well. The bottom half. I also tried a large set of comply isolating buds (TX500) and didn't push them into all the way. I matched the bottom with the line on the nozzle like they should be. Normally, I'll just use medium sized foam tips and slide them all the way. The closer the better usually. For some reason, the large TX500s seemed to sound better plus I didn't have to try and manipulate the IEMS to fit as much. Normally with the ZS6s, it's an angry dance or battle to get these suckers to fit nice and tight. I'm pleasantly surprised! Highly recommended setup here.


----------



## bsoplinger

SciOC said:


> How do you feel about the zs10 versus it01?  Honestly I think the zs10 has more detail and better staging, but isn't tuned as well.  I'm wondering if you got a particularly crappy pair....  I got a blue pair so maybe you got a lemon (your review shows a black pair)....  Also, I've mainly used my cayin n3, so I may even be understimating how recessed the mids are....  Not as bad as nuforce EDC, but definitely could have been tweaked.  EQ helps a lot to center vocals.....


My pair of iBasso IT01 took very close to 200 hours of burn-in to get the recessed mids to move forward. Or to say it differently, for the depth of the V frequency response curve to reduce significantly. I, as typical it seems with KZ designs, had real fitment issues with the ZS10. Once I found a good seal and had some bass I felt that they sounded better than those who really disliked it described. But nowhere near what you get from the iBasso. The phase difference between the DD and the midrange BA contributes to the lower quality sound. With the right, or perhaps I should say wrong, combination of instruments and vocals that phrase incoherence can be frighteningly bad. If your music choice doesn't hit the problem they sound decent with a seemingly shallow V curve. But then you change music choice and that V deepens. For me at least the mids generally are too recessed to make them enjoyable.


----------



## vegetaleb

Finally got my ZSR yesterday, the nozzles are a bit too long, so I tried with the ear tips that were on them and the fit was awful, tried with the medium tips that were in the bag, they are a bit better but still I feel like the earphones are floating in my ears 
I was expecting the ZSR to have the same fit than my ZS3 that were perfect, but until now I didn't find the right ear tips or memory wire angle, any tricks?
I can't give my idea about the SQ as long as the fit is not good


----------



## Slater (May 4, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> Finally got my ZSR yesterday, the nozzles are a bit too long, so I tried with the ear tips that were on them and the fit was awful, tried with the medium tips that were in the bag, they are a bit better but still I feel like the earphones are floating in my ears
> I was expecting the ZSR to have the same fit than my ZS3 that were perfect, but until now I didn't find the right ear tips or memory wire angle, any tricks?
> I can't give my idea about the SQ as long as the fit is not good



You can push the tip further down on the nozzle (as far as it will go), which will help address your issue.

Also try a tip with a shorter core, which will bring the IEM closer to your ear and get rid of the 'floating' feel. The below example are double-flange tips, but the core in the center is what you want to pay attention to (you want one like the left tip):


----------



## vegetaleb (May 4, 2018)

Thanks!
Will try it once at home
BTW I feel the tips given in the bag were not made for the ZSR nozzles, it took me 15mns to put the left one, it was too tight for the nozzle


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks!
> Will try it once at home
> BTW I feel the tips given in the bag were not made for the ZSR nozzles, it took me 15mns to put the left one, it was too tight for the nozzle



ZSR has a pretty large nozzle.

Still, better to have it too tight than too loose (that didn't come out right LOL)


----------



## vegetaleb

Yeah I was tempted to give the adult comparison too


----------



## KainHighwind (May 4, 2018)

HI guys, which is your recommendation under $15usd? I mostly listen to pop music (songs like My all, Without you, We belong together by Mariah Carey, Close to you by the Carpenters,...). I prefer clear sound with just enough bass, the high notes are clear but not sibilant, vocal and instrument can be heard separately, and the sound is as natural as possible. 

I bought a Rock Zircon based on a heavenly praise review on audiobudget.com and it isn't really that good, it's sound is kind of different from my other earphones (KZ ZST which I lost, KZ ZS5 with so much treble). I love my ZST more than ZS5 but ZST was released a long time ago, I don't know if there are other better earphones beside ZST or should I just bought back the ZST.

Many thanks to you.


----------



## Slater (May 4, 2018)

KainHighwind said:


> I bought a Rock Zircon based on a heavenly praise review on audiobudget.com and it isn't really that good



Igor must be making a killing on Zircon affiliate sales LOL


----------



## mbwilson111

KainHighwind said:


> HI guys, which is your recommendation under $15usd? I mostly listen to pop music (songs like My all, Without you, We belong together by Mariah Carey, Close to you by the Carpenters,...). I prefer clear sound with just enough bass, the high notes are clear but not sibilant, vocal and instrument can be heard separately, and the sound is as natural as possible.
> 
> I bought a Rock Zircon based on a heavenly praise review on audiobudget.com and it isn't really that good, it's sound is kind of different from my other earphones (KZ ZST which I lost, KZ ZS5 with so much treble). I love my ZST more than ZS5 but ZST was released a long time ago, I don't know if there are other better earphones beside ZST or should I just bought back the ZST.
> 
> Many thanks to you.



If you loved your ZST and you miss it, maybe you should just buy another.  Then you will  not be disappointed.


----------



## KainHighwind

mbwilson111 said:


> If you loved your ZST and you miss it, maybe you should just buy another.  Then you will  not be disappointed.



Yeah but I want to know if there is better option, just curious tho.


----------



## mbwilson111

KainHighwind said:


> Yeah but I want to know if there is better option, just curious tho.



If you want to know what happens to curious people just take a look at my list... LOL.

If I was your neighbor I would let you try a few.

What source are you using?


----------



## jeromeaparis

KainHighwind said:


> HI guys, which is your recommendation under $15usd? I mostly listen to pop music (songs like My all, Without you, We belong together by Mariah Carey, Close to you by the Carpenters,...). I prefer clear sound with just enough bass, the high notes are clear but not sibilant, vocal and instrument can be heard separately, and the sound is as natural as possible.
> 
> I bought a Rock Zircon based on a heavenly praise review on audiobudget.com and it isn't really that good, it's sound is kind of different from my other earphones (KZ ZST which I lost, KZ ZS5 with so much treble). I love my ZST more than ZS5 but ZST was released a long time ago, I don't know if there are other better earphones beside ZST or should I just bought back the ZST.
> Many thanks to you.



 Hi, I believe that there is no better earphone for this price than KZ ZST colorfull, specialy after 100hrs of burn in with pink noise.
You could try burnin your ZS5 100hrs with white noise


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> Yeah but I want to know if there is better option, just curious tho.



Give the KZ HDS3 or ATE/ATR a try.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Give the KZ HDS3 or ATE/ATR a try.



I enjoy my ATR.  



jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I believe that there is no better earphone for this price than KZ ZST colorfull



My ZST is the Carbon version.  I have heard that the colorful sounds different/better?
I like the fit of my ZST but still undecided about the sound   I like my ZSR, ZS6, and ZS10 more but those are more expensive.  I also love my little KZ ED9.  KZ is not the only brand out there... am I allowed to say that in this thread?


----------



## Slater (May 4, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> My ZST is the Carbon version.  I have heard that the colorful sounds different/better?



@Vidal always insisted that this was a myth. He had both, and said on more than 1 occasion that there was no difference in sound (only color).




mbwilson111 said:


> I also love my little KZ ED9.



Agreed. It's not talked about much anymore, which is unfortunate because it's very capable and the tuning filters is like having multiple IEMs in 1.




mbwilson111 said:


> KZ is not the only brand out there... am I allowed to say that in this thread?



Sure - we'd be doing the guy a disservice if we knew of a non-KZ IEM that fit his bill perfectly and didn't mention it.


----------



## MariusAB

Forhaps someone from Europe, could comment, how long he was waiting for his ZS to  receive after ordering in Alie. Standard shipping (ordered from KZ Official Store) Is it normal to wait 3-4 weeks, because i have  ordered  on 04.12 d, but till now didn't received. I believe many of the forum users have much  bigger history of the orders from popular KZ sellers so can say, how long does it take for them to receive their orders.


----------



## Adide

MariusAB said:


> Forhaps someone from Europe, could comment, how long he was waiting for his ZS to  receive after ordering in Alie. Standard shipping (ordered from KZ Official Store) Is it normal to wait 3-4 weeks, because i have  ordered  on 04.12 d, but till now didn't received. I believe many of the forum users have much  bigger history of the orders from popular KZ sellers so can say, how long does it take for them to receive their orders.



Mine shipped on April 16th, no updates since 18th arrival shenzen processing center. AK store. Not looking good but whatever, I'm not that eager.


----------



## Adide

Slater said:


> @Vidal always insisted that this was a myth. He had both, and said on more than 1 occasion that there was no difference in sound (only color).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So casual and natural in your blasphemy lol.
I envy your courage, shows forum veteran strength hehe.


----------



## MariusAB

Adide said:


> Mine shipped on April 16th, no updates since 18th arrival shenzen processing center. AK store. Not looking good but whatever, I'm not that eager.



ohh, i see that in your case it even worse. Don't know if someone received it faster. I only  decided that the info they are giving in alie page is sometimes very far from the truth. it's is impossible to rely on it. i am little bit eager more because that's my firs ZS phones. Perhaps there is some sellers in Alie that  waiting time is more acceptable, but as usually don't know  which one to try. My Hi fi DAP  for example came only  two weeks to my doors.


----------



## Chronofreak

Just got the ZSR in white! They look amazing if not for the small gap on the left side. It's off-white, ivory coloured.


----------



## mbwilson111

About two months ago I ordered the 15 pair of medium Starlines for $.99 .  At the time they were not shipping to the UK so I had them shipped to my daughter in Michigan.  She is visiting me on the 9th of this month,,,next week already!  I thought she could bring them to me but they have not yet arrived!  How fast did everyone else get theirs?

I went to my ebay listing to make sure I had ordered correctly and , in fact, had them sent to her.  I had.  I was surprised to see that they now do ship to the UK.  So, to make sure I get some, I made another order.  This time 15 pairs of large and 15 pairs of medium.  My husband has found that sometimes he needs the large and I used one large myself the other day on something...can't remember what  If the ones sent to Michigan never arrive I won't mind as much as long as I get these.  If they eventually turn up in Michigan my daughter can bring them next year


----------



## Otto Motor (May 4, 2018)

SciOC said:


> How do you feel about the zs10 versus it01?  Honestly I think the zs10 has more detail and better staging, but isn't tuned as well.  I'm wondering if you got a particularly crappy pair....  I got a blue pair so maybe you got a lemon (your review shows a black pair)....  Also, I've mainly used my cayin n3, so I may even be understimating how recessed the mids are....  Not as bad as nuforce EDC, but definitely could have been tweaked.  EQ helps a lot to center vocals.....


Try a jazz singer with the two earphones. Like Diana Krall. The voice comes out so much smoother and is so much more present in the iBasso and the image is much better rounded. If I listened to drum n bass or hip hop only, this difference would possibly not matter that much to me.

My ZS10 is not a dud and I have captured and described the ZS10's benefits. I also "broke it in" for 150 hrs...this didn't bring the mids forward (it also did not move the mids further back - the horror scenario of every break in). No, as always, the break in didn't make any difference. For perceiving changes in earphones, I rather have to burn my brain in.

Comparing these partials aspects of the ZS10 and the IT01 - as you do - means for their overall impression like comparing the glove departments of a Mazda 3 and a BMW 750.

The reason why I find the ZS10 meh can be found in the large numbers of KZ earphones and other earphones collected over time. This schools one's ears, and you have plenty of comparison. If you have the ZSR, this can be more easily understood.

Admittedly, I have very little experience with EQ-ing. Not sure whether it is a miracle cure.

And if you prefer the ZS10 over the iBasso: good for you! Satisfaction, that's what it is all about in the end. And it safes you some money.


----------



## Otto Motor

mbwilson111 said:


> About two months ago I ordered the 15 pair of medium Starlines for $.99 .  At the time they were not shipping to the UK so I had them shipped to my daughter in Michigan.  She is visiting me on the 9th of this month,,,next week already!  I thought she could bring them to me but they have not yet arrived!  How fast did everyone else get theirs?
> 
> I went to my ebay listing to make sure I had ordered correctly and , in fact, had them sent to her.  I had.  I was surprised to see that they now do ship to the UK.  So, to make sure I get some, I made another order.  This time 15 pairs of large and 15 pairs of medium.  My husband has found that sometimes he needs the large and I used one large myself the other day on something...can't remember what  If the ones sent to Michigan never arrive I won't mind as much as long as I get these.  If they eventually turn up in Michigan my daughter can bring them next year


I ordered mine on 20th March. They have not arrived yet. Heck I hope they ship to Canada and I don't have to pick them up in Aberdeen .


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> I ordered mine on 20th March. They have not arrived yet. Heck I hope they ship to Canada and I don't have to pick them up in Aberdeen .



I think @Slater has already received several packs of the Starlines.  I wonder how long his took.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 4, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> My pair of iBasso IT01 took very close to 200 hours of burn-in to get the recessed mids to move forward. Or to say it differently, for the depth of the V frequency response curve to reduce significantly.



It would have been great to have this documented by measurements. This would have put an end to the discussion of "brain burn in" .


----------



## BrunoC

mbwilson111 said:


> I think @Slater has already received several packs of the Starlines.  I wonder how long his took.



I'm from Portugal and have received the starlines pack in 3 or 4 weeks time. They seem legit. For me it's one of the best eartips ever created.


----------



## zozito (May 4, 2018)

My ZS10, buyed on March 27th . Shipped on april 2nd, received on april 12th.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 4, 2018)

KainHighwind said:


> HI guys, which is your recommendation under $15usd? I mostly listen to pop music (songs like My all, Without you, We belong together by Mariah Carey, Close to you by the Carpenters,...). I prefer clear sound with just enough bass, the high notes are clear but not sibilant, vocal and instrument can be heard separately, and the sound is as natural as possible.
> 
> I bought a Rock Zircon based on a heavenly praise review on audiobudget.com and it isn't really that good, it's sound is kind of different from my other earphones (KZ ZST which I lost, KZ ZS5 with so much treble). I love my ZST more than ZS5 but ZST was released a long time ago, I don't know if there are other better earphones beside ZST or should I just bought back the ZST.
> 
> Many thanks to you.


The best $15 spent is on the following.  KZ EDR1 + KZ EDR2 + KZ HDS3. All three together cost $15.

If you want to spend $10, then it is the HDS3 and the EDR1 or 2 (there is not much difference between them).

If you want to go higher, get the KZ ZSR, it appears to be the most universally liked KZ hybrid right now.

If you want a feel of premium, get the highly acclaimed Sony MH1C at $22 on ebay (former list price: $80)...if the deal still exists. This one is audiophile proof.

UPDATE: I forgot the ATE/ATR...apparently identical, but the ATR is cheaper.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 4, 2018)

Slater said:


> @Vidal always insisted that this was a myth. He had both, and said on more than 1 occasion that there was no difference in sound (only color).



Agreed. I have both and their only difference is colour...which may have a psychological effect according to mbwilson.

Proof here:
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=538357965661#


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> If you want a feel of premium, get the highly acclaimed Sony MH1C at $22 on ebay (former list price: $80)...if the deal still exists. This one is audiophile proof.



That Sony does sound great but the cable is so horrible that I could not use it.  The fact that it is a J cable is not the only problem for me.  It is so strong and rubbery as well and plus the mic ends up hanging stupidly next to your face.  I could not hate a cable more.  I got the Sony MDR-XB50AP to replace it.  No idea if it sounds similar because I could not bring myself to deal with that cable even one more time!


----------



## KainHighwind

mbwilson111 said:


> If you want to know what happens to curious people just take a look at my list... LOL.
> 
> If I was your neighbor I would let you try a few.
> 
> What source are you using?



I'm using Xiaomi Mi5. Wish I were you neighbour lol. I don't want to buy too many cheap earphones because I would rather buy an expensive earphone for premium quality rather than some medium quality earphones. 



jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I believe that there is no better earphone for this price than KZ ZST colorfull, specialy after 100hrs of burn in with pink noise.
> You could try burnin your ZS5 100hrs with white noise



Isn't burning is a myth and some articles said that it has no effect at all. I have never tried to burn my earphones.


----------



## KainHighwind

Slater said:


> Give the KZ HDS3 or ATE/ATR a try.



I will read these reviews, I leaning toward buying ZST again.  I bought it when it was flash sale and it only cost $10 usd with mic, lowest price right now is $15 usd with mic...


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> Agreed. I have both and their only difference is colour...which may have a psychological effect according to mbwilson.
> 
> Proof here:
> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=538357965661#



I have only the Carbon color so have only heard that one.  My husband  has the Colorful but I have not listened to it.  If he wants to compare he can but I don't want to bother.  I have too much else to listen to.  I did think they were calling the Colorful the ZST Pro.  Anyway.  I would just get whichever one you like the look of best.  I did and then  I put a TRN black cable on it.


----------



## phower

I said that I will wait for YZ35. KZ has finally released it as ZSA. Another hype train beginning. choo choo.
http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsa-officially-announced-news/


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> Admittedly, I have very little experience with EQ-ing. Not sure whether it is a miracle cure.



It is extremely easy to try EQing. Try it with this outstanding parametric equalizer from Japan.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teac.jp.musicplayer

Crash course in FR.
Sub-bass 20-60Hz, 
Bass 60-200Hz
Midrange 200-2kHz
Treble 2-8kHz.

Bring voices forward. Increase 200-500Hz
Take voices backward decrease the same range. This is one of the easiest EQ that will be felt easily.


----------



## Otto Motor

phower said:


> It is extremely easy to try EQing. Try it with this outstanding parametric equalizer from Japan.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teac.jp.musicplayer
> 
> ...


I use Apple stuff and have the Onkyo player which looks similar. I used eq-ing for taming the ZS6's treble. You need small fingers to do it well.


----------



## vladstef (May 4, 2018)

Finally got ZS10 and here are my measurements (I am very new to measuring so take this with a grain of salt). Channel matching is amazing for the cheapest 5 driver IEM, respect.




In terms of impressions: The resolution and details are superb and above TinAudio T2 for example. Bass is quite overdone and bleeds into mid range a lot but this is a regular thing for the price. Treble is quite artificial but not piercing, although I think I liked ZS5v1 treble more for some reason. Mid range is overshadowed by bass constantly and vocals lack body in similar fashion to other comparable KZs.
Sound stage and imaging - it can go left and right to about as much as ZS5v1 but imaging is not as good, depth is ok. It presents a bit of a disjointed picture, I keep trying to figure out exactly what it's doing with the soundscape and I need more time to figure it out, though it's not a good thing for sure.

I do think that they are worth this much money if you have large ears, for sure. They just aren't as amazing as I expected for the sheer number of drivers and I wouldn't call them an upgrade to previous KZ's flagships.


----------



## phower

vladstef said:


> Finally got ZS10 and here are my measurements (I am very new to measuring so take this with a grain of salt). Channel matching is amazing for the cheapest 5 driver IEM, respect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One advantage of BA's is their consistency. So, variation between left and right channels is minimal.


----------



## CYoung234

mbwilson111 said:


> About two months ago I ordered the 15 pair of medium Starlines for $.99 .  At the time they were not shipping to the UK so I had them shipped to my daughter in Michigan.  She is visiting me on the 9th of this month,,,next week already!  I thought she could bring them to me but they have not yet arrived!  How fast did everyone else get theirs?
> 
> I went to my ebay listing to make sure I had ordered correctly and , in fact, had them sent to her.  I had.  I was surprised to see that they now do ship to the UK.  So, to make sure I get some, I made another order.  This time 15 pairs of large and 15 pairs of medium.  My husband has found that sometimes he needs the large and I used one large myself the other day on something...can't remember what  If the ones sent to Michigan never arrive I won't mind as much as long as I get these.  If they eventually turn up in Michigan my daughter can bring them next year


My order just got to me in Paraguay last week. I ordered them on March 19. They had to make it to Miami first, and from there by courier to Paraguay, because the postal system here is very unreliable...


----------



## sino8r

phower said:


> I said that I will wait for YZ35. KZ has finally released it as ZSA. Another hype train beginning. choo choo.
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsa-officially-announced-news/



I hope the specs change otherwise I'm confused as to how this is an updated ZS6. Maybe a new brand of armatures or drivers at least. I realize that numbers don't matter but to KZ...they seem to!


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> That Sony does sound great but the cable is so horrible that I could not use it.  The fact that it is a J cable is not the only problem for me.  It is so strong and rubbery as well and plus the mic ends up hanging stupidly next to your face.  I could not hate a cable more.  I got the Sony MDR-XB50AP to replace it.  No idea if it sounds similar because I could not bring myself to deal with that cable even one more time!



Great idea.


----------



## Slater (May 4, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> About two months ago I ordered the 15 pair of medium Starlines for $.99 .  At the time they were not shipping to the UK so I had them shipped to my daughter in Michigan.  She is visiting me on the 9th of this month,,,next week already!  I thought she could bring them to me but they have not yet arrived!  How fast did everyone else get theirs?
> 
> I went to my ebay listing to make sure I had ordered correctly and , in fact, had them sent to her.  I had.  I was surprised to see that they now do ship to the UK.  So, to make sure I get some, I made another order.  This time 15 pairs of large and 15 pairs of medium.  My husband has found that sometimes he needs the large and I used one large myself the other day on something...can't remember what  If the ones sent to Michigan never arrive I won't mind as much as long as I get these.  If they eventually turn up in Michigan my daughter can bring them next year



I ordered those (4) different times, and each time they came to the US in about 2 weeks.

Best deal I got on tips in a long time, as I use the Starlines on the vast majority of my IEMs.


----------



## riffrafff

phower said:


> It is extremely easy to try EQing. Try it with this outstanding parametric equalizer from Japan.
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teac.jp.musicplayer
> 
> ...




EQ?  No problem:






Schiit Audio Loki Mini.  Love mine.   Prolly not ideal for mobile use, though.


----------



## Wiljen

Well my Zs10s arrived today and I must say I am thoroughly unimpressed.  A very solid step backwards in my estimation.  Big-midbass bleed that muddies the mids, still way too much treble energy, and they fit shallow enough that getting a good seal (which is mandatory for them to have any sub-bass at all) very finicky.    I'll stay with the Zs6 and ZsR and hope for the Zs5 v1 internals in the Zs6 body in some future iteration.

Not a well done quint at all, no chance this thing competes with the Brainwavz b150 or the Ibasso IT01 let alone their bigger siblings.


----------



## Aparker2005

Hopefully they improve with the 12 driver. Today with my band  the zs10 did perform extremely well . Wish they just had the fit of my es3


----------



## Slater (May 4, 2018)

My QKZ VK1 mini review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-680#post-14219361


----------



## DocHoliday (May 4, 2018)

phower said:


> I said that I will wait for YZ35. KZ has finally released it as ZSA. Another hype train beginning. choo choo.
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsa-officially-announced-news/



Well, perhaps all my proposals and postulating haven't fallen on deaf ears......



DocHoliday said:


> For those that are curious about upgrading from the ZST this is probably the most succinct description of the ZSR.
> 
> The ZSR's voluminous bass lends more depth to the sound signature but I still think KZ should release a variation of the ZSR with the 8mm DD in place of the 10mm DD currently employed.They can even issue it in the same exact housing; just upgrade the material to ceramic [like the ZS5 (plastic) to the ZS6 (machined aluminum)].
> 
> ...




.......though the ZSA has clearly been in the hopper for a while. 

Maybe, we'll be treated to something quite special if the ZSA is fitted with the 8mm DD because that triple-vented faceplate should open things up quite nicely. 



 

The CNC Aluminum housing pays homage to more than just the ZS6. 
To me it pays homage to many of KZ's earlier offerings fashioned from metals. 

The ZS6 with its premium housing was a welcome addition to my IEM collection  (ummmmm.....three of them) and if the ZSA is properly tuned and mimics the ZS6's build quality then I'll be a happy camper, especially if it's tuned to be a more open and airy ZSR sound signature with quicker bass..

We'll just have to wait and see.

tic toc tic toc....

BTW, I'd still love to see one of these in the......flesh?


----------



## snip3r77

Otto Motor said:


> I use Apple stuff and have the Onkyo player which looks similar. I used eq-ing for taming the ZS6's treble. You need small fingers to do it well.


If eq is a cure then amp companies will be wary


----------



## DocHoliday (May 4, 2018)

Slater said:


> My QKZ VK1 mini review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-680#post-14219361



We'll done, Slater

.....and your quite right about that conspicuous void inside the housing.

 Looks like a ghost town in there.


----------



## durwood (May 4, 2018)

KainHighwind said:


> HI guys, which is your recommendation under $15usd? I mostly listen to pop music (songs like My all, Without you, We belong together by Mariah Carey, Close to you by the Carpenters,...). I prefer clear sound with just enough bass, the high notes are clear but not sibilant, vocal and instrument can be heard separately, and the sound is as natural as possible.
> 
> I bought a Rock Zircon based on a heavenly praise review on audiobudget.com and it isn't really that good, it's sound is kind of different from my other earphones (KZ ZST which I lost, KZ ZS5 with so much treble). I love my ZST more than ZS5 but ZST was released a long time ago, I don't know if there are other better earphones beside ZST or should I just bought back the ZST.
> 
> Many thanks to you.



If you liked the ZST, it might make sense to buy another one because the fit is good. Not a KZ, but I think the TRN V20 is bit better in terms of clarity and has a similar sound signature, but it's slightly less comfortable than the ZST. The TRN V20 has a bit more bass as well making it more fun. The TRN V20 dynamic is actually a concentric dual driver, so that might be why it has a little more midrange clarity.


----------



## WildSeven

Finally my ZS10 arrived, after reading several impressions and short reviews I have to say I agree that the mids are too recessed. Bass and sub bass is very good, will let it burn for sometime then give it a good listen.

I wouldn't say this is an upgrade to the ZS6, the sound signature (I like treble) and the build on the ZS6 is far superior then the ZS10. But aesthetically the PCB adds some cool factor from the transparent shell.

Comfort wise I will give it to the ZS10, it sits right in my ear (medium size), not a super snug fit like my T7A but it won't fall out even I shake my head so hard (similar fit to my TFZ King), this is with stock tip (will change to spin fit after burn it).


 

Bass: ZS10 > ZS6
Mids: ZS6 > ZS10
Highs: ZS6 > ZS10
Sound Stage: ZS10 > ZS6
Imaging: ZS6 > ZS10
Fit: ZS10 > ZS6
Looks: ZS6 > ZS10

ZS10 didn't wow me like the ZS6 when I first got it, I'd say KZ turned their head too hard and looked at the wrong way. With the amount of models they are pumping out they should spent more time on R&D and improve tuning on existing models.


----------



## bsoplinger

Otto Motor said:


> It would have been great to have this documented by measurements. This would have put an end to the discussion of "brain burn in" .


I never believed in burn-in myself. But when I received my iBasso IT01 I listened and heard some of the things that folks were raving about but the midrange was so recessed it felt almost nonexistent. Male and female voices were OK sounding but so hidden by everything else I just couldn't believe that I had the same earphone as everyone else. Played around with tip rolling and found a more comfortable fit with the Whirlwind style but no real change to the mids. So I put them on a cheap Benjie K9 and played pink noise for a day then random tracks for 3 days. Call it appropriately 100 hours. Didn't listen to them at all during. Once done, still awful mids. Bad enough that I posted to the thread about my problem. Got a number of 200 hours replies. So back on the Benjie for 2 more days. Figured 150 was enough. Nope, perhaps mids weren't so bad but still crazy recessed. Another pair of days and this time when I had them settled in my ears I actually heard decent vocals. Quickly went through the half dozen tracks I'd tried initially and there was a huge difference in the amount of midrange. Still not convinced that burn-in may exists or perhaps only in special cases and specific circumstances but I know what I heard. Since I wasn't listening to them during the burn-in it wasn't a case of my brain and ears adjusting to the sound. I was using other IEMs to listen to music while the iBasso were cooking.

Since it doesn't cost me anything to just toss a new pair of IEMs on the cheap DAP for 4 days I've been doing the same 100 burn-in for everything I have. One day of pink noise then 3 of random tracks. Even went back and redid things I've listened to before. I haven't heard anything like what I did with the iBasso. In a few cases things improved slightly. Original thoughts might have been loose, muddy bass and now just not well controlled. Or very sibilant to occasionally. But mostly the same impressions before and after. 

I even used the same cycle on the ZhiYin Z5000 which is another Tesla design. Special diaphragm material, custom sound chamber and high magnetic flex. Mids were recessed some, not nearly as bad as the iBasso started out as and they stayed about where they were, perhaps moving forward slightly, and behind where the iBasso ended up. So even another IEM with a similar construction and design didn't change much at all.


----------



## gazzington

I've paired my zst with ipod touch 6th gen and fiio q5. I played some acdc earlier and it sounded amazing and that was just using apple music. What kz 's should I go for next?


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 5, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I've paired my zst with ipod touch 6th gen and fiio q5. I played some acdc earlier and it sounded amazing and that was just using apple music. What kz 's should I go for next?



Maybe the ZSR if you think it will fit you (I have no problem with it).  Quite a lot has been said about it if you search the thread.  All I can say right now is that I like it more than my ZST.


----------



## snip3r77

WildSeven said:


> Finally my ZS10 arrived, after reading several impressions and short reviews I have to say I agree that the mids are too recessed. Bass and sub bass is very good, will let it burn for sometime then give it a good listen.
> 
> I wouldn't say this is an upgrade to the ZS6, the sound signature (I like treble) and the build on the ZS6 is far superior then the ZS10. But aesthetically the PCB adds some cool factor from the transparent shell.
> 
> ...


Is there any tuning to begin with


----------



## B9Scrambler

snip3r77 said:


> Is there any tuning to begin with



Why are you here? Just to troll. Jesus, you're annoying.


----------



## mbwilson111

snip3r77 said:


> Is there any tuning to begin with



I like my ZS10 and do not find the mids to be recessed with my music.  Singer Songwriter, Blues, Folk, Acoustic, Rock, Alternative (whatever that actually means), Soundtracks and more... I really hate trying to separate music into genres.   There are two genres for me.... good music and bad music.  If it is good I will try anything.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 5, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I never believed in burn-in myself. But when I received my iBasso IT01 I listened and heard some of the things that folks were raving about but the midrange was so recessed it felt almost nonexistent. Male and female voices were OK sounding but so hidden by everything else I just couldn't believe that I had the same earphone as everyone else. Played around with tip rolling and found a more comfortable fit with the Whirlwind style but no real change to the mids. So I put them on a cheap Benjie K9 and played pink noise for a day then random tracks for 3 days. Call it appropriately 100 hours. Didn't listen to them at all during. Once done, still awful mids. Bad enough that I posted to the thread about my problem. Got a number of 200 hours replies. So back on the Benjie for 2 more days. Figured 150 was enough. Nope, perhaps mids weren't so bad but still crazy recessed. Another pair of days and this time when I had them settled in my ears I actually heard decent vocals. Quickly went through the half dozen tracks I'd tried initially and there was a huge difference in the amount of midrange. Still not convinced that burn-in may exists or perhaps only in special cases and specific circumstances but I know what I heard. Since I wasn't listening to them during the burn-in it wasn't a case of my brain and ears adjusting to the sound. I was using other IEMs to listen to music while the iBasso were cooking.
> 
> Since it doesn't cost me anything to just toss a new pair of IEMs on the cheap DAP for 4 days I've been doing the same 100 burn-in for everything I have. One day of pink noise then 3 of random tracks. Even went back and redid things I've listened to before. I haven't heard anything like what I did with the iBasso. In a few cases things improved slightly. Original thoughts might have been loose, muddy bass and now just not well controlled. Or very sibilant to occasionally. But mostly the same impressions before and after.
> 
> I even used the same cycle on the ZhiYin Z5000 which is another Tesla design. Special diaphragm material, custom sound chamber and high magnetic flex. Mids were recessed some, not nearly as bad as the iBasso started out as and they stayed about where they were, perhaps moving forward slightly, and behind where the iBasso ended up. So even another IEM with a similar construction and design didn't change much at all.



That's why reviewers often justify their break-in times with the phrase "just in case". I don't even know whether I broke my iBasso IT01 in but I think I did. The best test would be two pairs, one "broken in" and the other one fresh out of the box. Do you have some spare cash?


----------



## Otto Motor (May 5, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I've paired my zst with ipod touch 6th gen and fiio q5. I played some acdc earlier and it sounded amazing and that was just using apple music. What kz 's should I go for next?





mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe the ZSR if you think it will fit you (I have no problem with it).  Quite a lot has been said about it if you search the thread.  All I can say right now is that I like it more than my ZST.


Your next KZ may be a ****! The **** UES at $24. Compared it this morning with the real KZ ZST. Both are dual hybrids. Difference: the **** was coherent and smooth and the ZST had needly, squeezed but distant mids smothered by a boomy bass.

On medium volume in particular, the **** gives you are very relaxed listening.

Why was the **** not hyped in 2016? It is not flashy and sounds like "mustard" (German: Senf).

I think you can't improve on your ZSR with another KZ model.


----------



## maxxevv

mbwilson111 said:


> I like my ZS10 and do not find the mids to be recessed with my music.



I don't find them as recessed as I remember them to be as when I first got it either.  

I kept finding it weird that people actually find the ZS10's mids recessed.  Had a little bit of time to run through a few of my IEMS,  namely the T2, ZS6, ZS5v2, Urbanfun Hi-fi and the i880. 
And I think its the volumes which people are listening to them.  Almost all of the above are more than uncomfortably loud by the time I set my volume up to 25~28 / 75 on the "external device" mode of my LG G6.  For the ZS10, if I set the volume blind and to a point which I enjoy the sound signature, it goes up to 30~32/75 in the same mode. 

All listening to the same tracks. 

Perhaps, its worth a try to see if the feedback on the sound signature still holds once the volume is adjusted and adjusted blind if possible.


----------



## DocHoliday

snip3r77 said:


> Is there any tuning to begin with


----------



## Otto Motor (May 5, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> I don't find them as recessed as I remember them to be as when I first got it either.





mbwilson111 said:


> I like my ZS10 and do not find the mids to be recessed with my music.



Once and for all I am establishing here that the mids of the ZS10 are not recessed. The measurements clearly show that.

Disclaimer: the diagram is upside down. But who says that's not ok.


----------



## Otto Motor

*Knowles* *drivers vs. Bellsing drivers *

**** uses Knowles BAs, KZ uses Bellsing BAs. The biggest criticism of KZ hybrids is the quality of their mids, even in the ZS10 with 4 BA drivers per earpiece. No wonder that **** iems are more expensive.

Counting 2 + 2 together: unless the next KZ models have better drivers, there is no expectation to get better mids.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

In stok sound is so so, but, if you doun(i dont know how it in eng) in you eq mid on 1kHz and 2kHz, after this zs10 sound so pretty  
In zishan z3:


----------



## vladstef

Otto Motor said:


> Once and for all I am establishing here that the mids of the ZS10 are not recessed. The measurements clearly show that.
> 
> Disclaimer: the diagram is upside down. After all, who says that's not ok.



I am sorry but I completely dissagree. That bass is bleeding into mid range up to 500Hz, and you can consider boosted 100-200Hz to be bass bleeding into mid range already. Mid range reaches 2K peak a bit soon but at least it's the right amount. 
Mid range as a whole is fighting with bass way too much, because we are not talking about a 4-5dB boost but 10dB of extra bass that is pushed a lot into the mid range.

Strongly forward mids? That is objectively inaccurate reading from the graph or listening to it.


----------



## Makahl

Otto Motor said:


> *Knowles* *drivers vs. Bellsing drivers *
> 
> **** uses Knowles BAs, KZ uses Bellsing BAs. The biggest criticism of KZ hybrids is the quality of their mids, even in the ZS10 with 4 BA drivers per earpiece. No wonder that **** iems are more expensive.
> 
> Counting 2 + 2 together: unless the next KZ models have better drivers, there is no expectation to get better mids.




Well, checking the ****'s Aliexpress ad I've found that:







The mids part is done by the DD instead of the BA which takes the control of the treble. Maybe that's why the mids sound more coherent to you. If you put a Knowles driver in the nozzle damperless you'll find that artificial too so I think the problem is the tuning and no drivers per se. if you do the Slater's mod on ZST putting a damper material on the BA it'll refine the peak taming that kind of artificial timbre.


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> Your next KZ may be a ****! The **** UES at $24. Compared it this morning with the real KZ ZST. Both are dual hybrids. Difference: the **** was coherent and smooth and the ZST had needly, squeezed but distant mids smothered by a boomy bass.
> 
> On medium volume in particular, the **** gives you are very relaxed listening.
> 
> ...


Sorry for digressing. I already have 2 **** PT15(graphene drivers) and the new **** EN900 is very tempting.


----------



## MyPants

phower said:


> Sorry for digressing. I already have 2 **** PT15(graphene drivers) and the new **** EN900 is very tempting.


Wow, unless the companies are related that's a huge middle finger to Simgot.


----------



## phower

MyPants said:


> Wow, unless the companies are related that's a huge middle finger to Simgot.


Well, KZ ZS6 is inspired by Campfire Andromeda, isn't it?


----------



## bsoplinger

Makahl said:


> Well, checking the ****'s Aliexpress ad I've found that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. Are they really showing that the crossover point between the DD and BA is at 5 kHz? Yikes why even bother with the BA at that point? Out of curiosity, which **** model is that?


----------



## DocHoliday

Otto Motor said:


> KZ uses Bellsing BAs.



Source, please.


----------



## MyPants

phower said:


> Well, KZ ZS6 is inspired by Campfire Andromeda, isn't it?


Yeah but that's a chi-fi company copying the design of a headphone that plays in a completely different universe. There's not really any competition. But the **** is copying the design of a headphone that's just $50 more from a fellow chi-fi manufacturer. Seems a little worse when there's the potential of actually confusing customers within the same product tier.


----------



## Makahl

bsoplinger said:


> Wow. Are they really showing that the crossover point between the DD and BA is at 5 kHz? Yikes why even bother with the BA at that point? Out of curiosity, which **** model is that?



I think Otto was talking about the **** UEs.The ad is saying the Knowles model is the WBFK-30042 which is usually designed as a tweeter so maybe the target is just getting a better treble extension? I'm not sure if they accomplish that since I don't own this IEM but I'd say that makes more sense.



DocHoliday said:


> Source, please.



I don't know 1 word but here's showing at least on KZ ZST the classic Bellsing 30095: http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55647129.html


----------



## Zerohour88

MyPants said:


> Yeah but that's a chi-fi company copying the design of a headphone that plays in a completely different universe. There's not really any competition. But the **** is copying the design of a headphone that's just $50 more from a fellow chi-fi manufacturer. Seems a little worse when there's the potential of actually confusing customers within the same product tier.



honestly, both isn't really that far off. IP is IP, regardless of the price tier.

seeing as most of the newly announced KZ is fairly generic designs, hopefully they learnt their lessons on blatant copying (which will be super weird for a chinese company, but people change)


----------



## phower

Makahl said:


> I think Otto was talking about the **** UEs.The ad is saying the Knowles model is the WBFK-30042 which is usually designed as a tweeter so maybe the target is just getting a better treble extension? I'm not sure if they accomplish that since I don't own this IEM but I'd say that makes more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know 1 word but here's showing at least on KZ ZST the classic Bellsing 30095: http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55647129.html


From Google translate , KZ has changed the ZST 3 times from the beginning. Earlier, there was unmarked BA to Bellsing BA. That is what I infer


----------



## MyPants

Zerohour88 said:


> honestly, both isn't really that far off. IP is IP, regardless of the price tier.
> 
> seeing as most of the newly announced KZ is fairly generic designs, hopefully they learnt their lessons on blatant copying (which will be super weird for a chinese company, but people change)


Oh I agree, by the black letter of it. But when a court is deciding whether or not something is trade dress infringement, the actual likelihood of consumer confusion is a weighty factor. Now, Campfire's design likely has "independent significance" in the minds of audio consumers, so both cases ARE arguably infringement, but the chances of somebody looking for Andromedas buying the ZS6 by accident are basically zero compared to someone shopping for a Simgot EN700 being confused by the slightly cheaper EN900. Especially when you consider how **** is intentionally copying the naming scheme as well.


----------



## Slater (May 5, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Source, please.



In the past there have been teardowns, and some of the BA drivers have the Belsing logo on the casing. Most of the time they have the KZ logo, but that is just a private labeling thing.

I'll see if I can find the info/photos.

_Edit: The above Japanese post isn't even the one I was thinking of, but that's a perfect example. The one I remember was of the ZS5. Besides, Belsing is one of the largest BA manufacturers in the world. I have posted info about them before - they have some sort of relationship with Knowles, but it is not publicly clear exactly what that relationship is. Whatever it is, it is highly secret. Industry insiders believe that Knowles contracts out at least a portion of BA manufacturing work to Belsing._


----------



## Otto Motor (May 6, 2018)

vladstef said:


> I am sorry but I completely dissagree. That bass is bleeding into mid range up to 500Hz, and you can consider boosted 100-200Hz to be bass bleeding into mid range already. Mid range reaches 2K peak a bit soon but at least it's the right amount.
> Mid range as a whole is fighting with bass way too much, because we are not talking about a 4-5dB boost but 10dB of extra bass that is pushed a lot into the mid range.
> 
> Strongly forward mids? That is objectively inaccurate reading from the graph or listening to it.



OK, I turned the diagram around. Now the mids are recessed, the bass is bleeding, but the labelling is upside down. See also here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10.23034/reviews


----------



## Otto Motor

Makahl said:


> Well, checking the ****'s Aliexpress ad I've found that:
> 
> If you put a Knowles driver in the nozzle damperless you'll find that artificial too so I think the problem is the tuning and no drivers per se. if you do the Slater's mod on ZST putting a damper material on the BA it'll refine the peak taming that kind of artificial timbre.




Maybe, tuning is dependent on driver quality. I wrote in my ZS10 review: "...I am wondering whether KZ toned the midrange down so that not to create an overly harsh listening experience..."


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Source, please.


http://en.bellsing.com/


----------



## toddy0191

Just been listening to the new Jonelle Monae album in hi res with my EDR1 which have been gathering dust recently. 

How dare something so cheap sound so good!  Love the bass coupled with very natural sounding mids and highs.


----------



## TheVortex

For any of you guys out there who have the Xiaomi bluetooth adapter.




What is the sound quality like, battery life and would it easily drive the KZ ZS10 and headphones like Philips Fidelio x2?

Also are the instructions spoken in Chinese only unlike the KZ adapter which is in English and Chinese?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Slater (May 6, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> For any of you guys out there who have the Xiaomi bluetooth adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I use mine with the Fidelio X2 all of the time - sounds great!

I don't have the ZS10, so I don't know about that. But I have almost every other KZ ever made, and it drives all of them fine.

I easily get 5 hours of use out of mine.

The instructions are in Chinese though, so you have no idea what it's saying (ie "shing shoo bing bong"). It's not hard to figure out what it's trying to tell you though, as there's only 1 button for everything, the adapter shows the battery level on your phone, and there's LEDs to show things like pairing etc. Maybe there's a way to switch the language to English like the KZ; it's never bothered me enough to research it.

I would easily trade all of my KZ bluetooth adapters AND my TRN bluetooth adapter for the Xiaomi. Unfortunately, I had already had those things when I got the Xiaomi.


----------



## Sylaw

any-thoughts about this review?  Is he over bashing the set? or is it true?


----------



## B9Scrambler (May 6, 2018)

Sylaw said:


> any-thoughts about this review?  Is he over bashing the set? or is it true?




Is that HBB or someone trying to rip off his "style"? If it is HBB I would stay ten f'ing light years away from his agenda driven content. The ZS10 is good. It does not sound like you're listening out of a paper cup... Dude doesn't even have the cables plugged in correctly. I seriously don't get the KZ hate train that has cropped up recently.


----------



## HungryPanda

I like my ZS10 so no complaints here


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Is that HBB or someone trying to rip off his "style"? If it is HBB I would stay ten f'ing light years away from his agenda driven content. The ZS10 is good. It does not sound like you're listening out of a paper cup... Dude doesn't even have the cables plugged in correctly. I seriously don't get the KZ hate train that has cropped up recently.



Unfortunately, any nut with a camera and an opinion can post a video on YouTube.


----------



## Aparker2005

No paper cup here


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> OK, I turned the diagram around. Now the mids are recessed, the bass is bleeding, but the labelling is upside down. See also here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10.23034/reviews


Sorry, you seem to have some misunderstanding. The FR looks correct. The treble always looks wiggly in real measurements and that is normal. Here is a real measurement on a dummy head. Keep it as a reference when comparing FR of different headphones.


----------



## WildSeven

Anyone can give a quick comparison between ZS10 and the Magosi K5/**** H5?


----------



## Otto Motor (May 6, 2018)

*DISCLAIMER: I WAS PULLING YOUR LEGS - BUT THIS WAS PRETTY EVIDENT*

EXPLANATION: I had been claimed from several sides that the KZ ZS10 do not have recessed mids. My FR curve as well as my ears show otherwise.

Therefore, jokingly, I posted my FR curve upside down in support of "forward" mids - get it?
But at least one didn't get it letting us know that the mids were recessed and the bass was bleeding into the mids. Yes, true!
I tried to appease him by rotating the FR curve back to right-way up. But now the labelling was upside down...which confused others.
I guess I can't make it right to everybody!

And if you don't believe me, please read my review of the ZS10:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10.23034/reviews


----------



## phower

Otto Motor said:


> *DISCLAIMER: I WAS PULLING YOUR LEGS - BUT THIS WAS PRETTY EVIDENT*
> 
> EXPLANATION: I had been claimed from several sides that the KZ ZS10 do not have recessed mids. My FR curve as well as my ears show otherwise.
> 
> ...


OK. Got it. The FR of ZS10 looks like the free field response in the graph I posted, even though the peaks don't align.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 6, 2018)

Am I allowed to not care about graphs?  I want to just listen and enjoy my music.

I like my ZS10...and others...


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> *Am I allowed to not care about graphs.*  I want to just listen and enjoy my music.
> 
> I like my ZS10...and others...



You certainly are, and there are many who are right there with you. Graphs have their place but they're not the be all end all, nor should they be taken as such esp. when they're not professionally done.


----------



## phower (May 6, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I allowed to not care about graphs.  I want to just listen and enjoy my music.
> 
> I like my ZS10...and others...


Yes. As an average consumer, you don't have to care about graphs. But, since there is no place to audition earphones, it will save you time and money by learning about FRs. Most of the time, we can infer how a headphone will sound by looking at the FR which can help you to decide whether to buy it or not.

Research has shown (blue line in my graph) is what people preferred on average. So, a FR of a headphone which looks like the blue line will sound nice.


----------



## PacoBdn

B9Scrambler said:


> You certainly are, and there are many who are right there with you. Graphs have their place but they're not the be all end all, nor should they be taken as such esp. when they're not professionally done.



I think the graphics are important. They give you an idea what you can expect from headphones. But unlike headphones, IEMs depend on several factors as we all know. Insertion, anatomy, tips, etc. Simply changing the tips we get a completely different sound.

The ZS10 are good iem. Another thing is that some have not achieved a good fit, either by defective insertion or by not getting a good seal. It could also be that there are defective units! Luckily it is not my case. I liked them a lot and I think they are a clear upgrade compared to the ZSR.


----------



## B9Scrambler

PacoBdn said:


> I think the graphics are important. They give you an idea what you can expect from headphones. But unlike headphones, IEMs depend on several factors as we all know. Insertion, anatomy, tips, etc. Simply changing the tips we get a completely different sound.
> 
> The ZS10 are good iem. Another thing is that some have not achieved a good fit, either by defective insertion or by not getting a good seal. It could also be that there are defective units! Luckily it is not my case. I liked them a lot and I think they are a clear upgrade compared to the ZSR.



I'm not saying graphs are unimportant, not at all. They just carry too much weight, especially given those other factors you mentioned. A product that measures poorly can still sound great. Maybe it's not accurate or it doesn't follow an ideal curve, but the resultant tuning simply works. Havi B3 Pro I is a good example. Measured horrendously but the end result speaks for itself given how long it has been a staple recommendation in the community.


----------



## 424358

Makahl said:


> I think Otto was talking about the **** UEs.The ad is saying the Knowles model is the WBFK-30042 which is usually designed as a tweeter so maybe the target is just getting a better treble extension? I'm not sure if they accomplish that since I don't own this IEM but I'd say that makes more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know 1 word but here's showing at least on KZ ZST the classic Bellsing 30095: http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55647129.html



So carbon and colored ZST are very different? I listened to the colored ZST a long time ago and loved them but returned them.

Now I have the carbon ZST. I’m not sure it is as lovely as the colored one but I wasn’t sure on my experience. Maybe they are the same I don’t remember, now I need to get me a colored ZST to compare again.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 6, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> You certainly are, and there are many who are right there with you. Graphs have their place but they're not the be all end all, nor should they be taken as such esp. when they're not professionally done.


I agree...and cite head fier crinacle who philosophically wrote something like: a graph gives you the earphone's general flavour. Let's say chocolate or vanilla. But it does not tell you whether the choco or vanilla are really tasty..

A graph is therefore a good first test for some whether the the tonal flavour of an earphone fits their personal preference. For example, I have many very cheap earphones that have strongly V-shaped curves...and I try to avoid getting more of the same. Some people like neutrally tuned earphones and the graph indicates this without listening - handy!

What I find particularly useful is the superimposition of such graphs...great for quick earphone comparisons  and in support of the reviewer's wording.

In summary, the FR curve is just one of many useful evaluation tools in our toolbox - and it is somewhat inconclusive by itself. It tells you about quantity not quality of the signal.

This graph- and personal preference business comes with experience and personal development.


----------



## Otto Motor

misterchao said:


> So carbon and colored ZST are very different? I listened to the colored ZST a long time ago and loved them but returned them.


No! They are indentical. I have both.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> I agree...and cite head fier crinacle who philosophically wrote something like: a graph gives you the earphone's general flavour. Let's say chocolate or vanilla. But it does not tell you whether the choco or vanilla are really tasty..
> 
> A graph is therefore a good first test for some whether the the tonal flavour of an earphone fits their personal preference. For example, I have many very cheap earphones that have strongly V-shaped curves...and I try to avoid getting more of the same. Some people like neutrally tuned earphones and the graph indicates this without listening - handy!
> 
> ...



Great way to put it


----------



## Makahl

misterchao said:


> So carbon and colored ZST are very different? I listened to the colored ZST a long time ago and loved them but returned them.
> 
> Now I have the carbon ZST. I’m not sure it is as lovely as the colored one but I wasn’t sure on my experience. Maybe they are the same I don’t remember, now I need to get me a colored ZST to compare again.



If there's something different I think that's more a question of batches IMO which makes difficult to answer it. If I understood correctly the article is comparing a ZST from 2016.  

However, an objective answer would be measuring ZSTs carbon/colored from 2016/2017/2018 to confirm something, otherwise, it's just speculation.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 6, 2018)

Makahl said:


> If there's something different I think that's more a question of batches IMO which makes difficult to answer it. If I understood correctly the article is comparing a ZST from 2016.
> 
> However, an objective answer would be measuring ZSTs carbon/colored from 2016/2017/2018 to confirm something, otherwise, it's just speculation.


My ears are not speculative. If there was a tonal difference, it is negiglible.

Pick your colour here...
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=538357965661


----------



## Makahl

Otto Motor said:


> My ears are not speculative. If there was a tonal difference, it is negiglible.
> 
> Pick your colour here...
> https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=538357965661



I mean... it's speculation there's a difference between the models.


----------



## WildSeven (May 6, 2018)

WildSeven said:


> Finally my ZS10 arrived, after reading several impressions and short reviews I have to say I agree that the mids are too recessed. Bass and sub bass is very good, will let it burn for sometime then give it a good listen.
> 
> I wouldn't say this is an upgrade to the ZS6, the sound signature (I like treble) and the build on the ZS6 is far superior then the ZS10. But aesthetically the PCB adds some cool factor from the transparent shell.
> 
> ...



After some burn-in and changed the tip to Spin Fit, I can say they sounded great. Now the seal is very important, if you don't have a good fit with the shell and tip, the bass will sound crappy (I'd personally advise sealing the vent holes if you ear does not hug the shell and block them). The nozzle on the ZS10 is not as long as the other KZ I had, tried with Foam, double flange and finally settled with CP100 tip. It does a wonderful job giving me a great seal due to that flex tip and extra 2 mm length compare to the stock red/clear silicon KZ tips.

The bass and sub bass is insanely good, on par with the TFZ King, but resolution in the upper frequency is still lacking compare to the single graphene driver. Mids are NOT as recessed as I first listened to them. I'd say the sound is more relaxed and not analytical at all.


After insertion I would recommend turn it back to achieve a better fit, this sits right in the ear and will not fall out.
Image shows my medium size ear hugging the shell tightly.

Conclusion: I think this is a great addition to my collection, good for gaming, movies and EDM musics.


----------



## fluteloop (May 6, 2018)

Sylaw said:


> any-thoughts about this review?  Is he over bashing the set? or is it true?




He's probably had bout 15 minutes of listening time, he'd need to smash some power into them let them cook for a bit in a nice sizzling puddle of Pink Noise Fading in and out some Big dirty sweeps.... yeah they're gonna need a week or two of straight thrashing. my zs6's are still getting better and better... i practically never stop running them... still settling in must have at least 500+ hours on them already. The zs10's will be a nightmare in this regard I can tell. won't stop me from getting them, i'll bake em for a month and then test them. anyone giving impressions with under 50 hours of serious thrash time is just blowing warm air in my own godforsaken opinion.


----------



## Wiljen

MyPants said:


> Wow, unless the companies are related that's a huge middle finger to Simgot.




Seems to me the general mentality of all of Chi-fi is if a design from another manufacturer sells well, copy it.


----------



## fluteloop

(zs10) everyone mentions music and gaming, i'm still waiting on peoples impressions of adult filmography performance...


----------



## fluteloop

mbwilson111 said:


> Am I allowed to not care about graphs?  I want to just listen and enjoy my music.
> 
> I like my ZS10...and others...




that's completely acceptable behaviour sir, not everyone here is a Graph reading poindexter, the graphs shut down the people who tout nonsense because they have tinnitus and just don't know it. you can't argue with electronic ears and read outs. graphs are a way to quickly perceive what kind of sound signature a phone will have, people familiar with them can immedietely write certain products off according to graphs, while graphs don't tell the whole story and deliver an accurate review of the overall experience it does however quickly inform the discerning listener of possible indicators.. people who may already have similiar phones with similiar freq responses etc. enjoy your music, if you plan on buying more than one headphone and someone takes the time to post a graph use it, it just might save you from wasting money on similiarly sounding phones


----------



## fluteloop

we talking a Lebron james sized finger or a danny devito sized finger?


----------



## Wiljen

Question regarding the latest 2 KZs I have tried (Zsr, Zs10).  Has anyone else noticed a metric ton of driver flex in both of these when inserting them?   I am finding that when inserting either of the most recent ones I have received they have very pronounced and very audible driver flex,  I am finding the seal to be a bit better with Foams on the Zs10 but I still am pretty dissappointed with the overall sound signature and I am wondering if the driver flex is indicating that I got a pair that shouldn't have passed QC of it is just inherent to the design.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Wiljen said:


> Question regarding the latest 2 KZs I have tried (Zsr, Zs10).  Has anyone else noticed a metric ton of driver flex in both of these when inserting them?   I am finding that when inserting either of the most recent ones I have received they have very pronounced and very audible driver flex,  I am finding the seal to be a bit better with Foams on the Zs10 but I still am pretty dissappointed with the overall sound signature and I am wondering if the driver flex is indicating that I got a pair that shouldn't have passed QC of it is just inherent to the design.



I personally haven't experienced driver flex in a KZ since the DT5.


----------



## SciOC

Wiljen said:


> Question regarding the latest 2 KZs I have tried (Zsr, Zs10).  Has anyone else noticed a metric ton of driver flex in both of these when inserting them?   I am finding that when inserting either of the most recent ones I have received they have very pronounced and very audible driver flex,  I am finding the seal to be a bit better with Foams on the Zs10 but I still am pretty dissappointed with the overall sound signature and I am wondering if the driver flex is indicating that I got a pair that shouldn't have passed QC of it is just inherent to the design.


I don't notice driver flex on either.   I do notice it on most of my tfz's and ibasso it01s.   

Not sure how it would be a qc issue though.....   I thought driver flex was all pressure related and usually has to do with movement/insertion on DDs


----------



## groucho69

Isn't driver flex an UBER thing?


----------



## TheVortex

WildSeven said:


> Anyone can give a quick comparison between ZS10 and the Magosi K5/**** H5?



Same as me, has anyone got these on here?


----------



## toddy0191

Drumkrunk said:


> that's completely acceptable behaviour sir



That's twice in one day @mbwilson111


----------



## mbwilson111

toddy0191 said:


> That's twice in one day @mbwilson111



Do you want to correct him for me?


----------



## toddy0191

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you want to correct him for me?


Okay!

@Drumkrunk @mbwilson111 is not a SIR


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> Same as me, has anyone got these on here?



I have the K5, just not the ZS10.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> I have the K5, just not the ZS10.



What do you think of it?


----------



## Wiljen

SciOC said:


> I don't notice driver flex on either.   I do notice it on most of my tfz's and ibasso it01s.
> 
> Not sure how it would be a qc issue though.....   I thought driver flex was all pressure related and usually has to do with movement/insertion on DDs



Driver flex is a pressure issue but can be related to qc if you get a diaphragm with a weak spot, a thinner than spec diaphragm, or the like.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> What do you think of it?



I love it!

The original version had some hissing issues with the cable. They updated it with a new cable that's beautiful and solved the problem. It's called the "Upgrade cable v2.0 edition" or something similar.

I haven't written a review on it yet, but there is some info/impressions here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magaosi-k5.863752/page-5#post-13955153
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magaosi-k5.863752/page-5#post-13956094
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/magaosi-k5.863752/page-7#post-14093206


----------



## WildSeven

I picked up a Red/Black KZ zippered case for my Red/Black ZS6, also new TRN replacement cable (wanted that angled connector to fit better around ear).
One thing I don't like the cable is that the transparent shrink wrap is molded. Is there any way to reshape them? Do I need a heat gun to blow it while holding it to shape?


----------



## acia

WildSeven said:


> I picked up a Red/Black KZ zippered case for my Red/Black ZS6, also new TRN replacement cable (wanted that angled connector to fit better around ear).
> One thing I don't like the cable is that the transparent shrink wrap is molded. Is there any way to reshape them? Do I need a heat gun to blow it while holding it to shape?


Hot water


----------



## Otto Motor (May 6, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Is that HBB or someone trying to rip off his "style"? If it is HBB I would stay ten f'ing light years away from his agenda driven content. The ZS10 is good. It does not sound like you're listening out of a paper cup... Dude doesn't even have the cables plugged in correctly. I seriously don't get the KZ hate train that has cropped up recently.


Is 'hate" the opposite of "hype"? [I have not watched that video yet but I have not seen many decent video reviews by amateurs period...lots of good ones from Tyll H. at innerfidelity...and yeah, the dude has the cables connected wrongly...that qualifies him to write for thephonograph.net or the earphone king] 

KZ are clearly trying to expose themselves prominently...which makes them prone to criticism. Where there is a strong light, there is always a strong shadow.


----------



## Otto Motor

Wiljen said:


> Question regarding the latest 2 KZs I have tried (Zsr, Zs10).  Has anyone else noticed a metric ton of driver flex in both of these when inserting them?   I am finding that when inserting either of the most recent ones I have received they have very pronounced and very audible driver flex,  I am finding the seal to be a bit better with Foams on the Zs10 but I still am pretty dissappointed with the overall sound signature and I am wondering if the driver flex is indicating that I got a pair that shouldn't have passed QC of it is just inherent to the design.


I have only heard recently of driver flex - never had to deal with it. And I have tens of earphones. One way to avoid it is by opening your mouth when inserting the earpieces (into your ears)...basic physics.

My previous take on driver flex: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2118#post-14211870


----------



## WildSeven

acia said:


> Hot water


soak in hot water then bend? how hot, like boiling hot?


----------



## stimuz (May 7, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Is 'hate" the opposite of "hype"? [I have not watched that video yet but I have not seen many decent video reviews by amateurs period...lots of good ones from Tyll H. at innerfidelity...and yeah, the dude has the cables connected wrongly...that qualifies him to write for thephonograph.net or the earphone king]
> 
> KZ are clearly trying to expose themselves prominently...which makes them prone to criticism. Where there is a strong light, there is always a strong shadow.



The ZS10s are fantastic at their price point imo and are in my regular rotation of T2/IT01/ZS10. I still love CM5 but I think more than 2 regularly used IEMs is already pushing it. Pretty satisfied at this point but I still want a solid pair of earbuds. Honestly if CM5 was rereleased with a less ugly shell and 2 pin or MMCX its all I would ever need but to me it's definitely set the bar for chifi, especially at the $12.


----------



## HungryPanda

WildSeven said:


> soak in hot water then bend? how hot, like boiling hot?


 not enough to burn, be safe


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> ZSR has a pretty large nozzle.
> 
> Still, better to have it too tight than too loose (that didn't come out right LOL)



I pushed the tips as you said, the left ear is good now but the right one is still floaty, I tried with the ZS3 cable and the seal was much better, the memory wire was sturdier, unfortunately the 2 pins adapter of the ZS3 grey cable is not 100% compatible with the ZSR, it will unplug very easily.
I will try to find my old double flange tips to try again, the SQ is pretty good, less bassy than ZS3 and with a wider soundstage which is what I wanted, I just have to find the right seal


----------



## nxnje

Yo guys, 
trying to switch my foam tips with many silicon tips in these days (i've got plenty of them) but every time i wear ANY silicon tip i always feel strange in the ear.
I don't know how to explain but i feel like i can't hear sound and if i turn right for example i can't hear the sound coming from the right side, or i can hear it very very bad.
i have a strange vacuum feeling with them and i even tried friend's spinfit ones which give me the same feeling. That was another reason why i gave away my kz zs3 but now i find it in the same way with memt x5, xiaomi piston and any other iem.
Anyone with similiar feeling? I don't know if i explained it well but i really like how bass sound with the silicon tips but i can't really wear them cuz i have these kind of problems.
Hope someone can help me with this


----------



## Wiljen

I'm not a huge fan of the Zs10 at this point.  I think the sound is a step backward from the Zsr.    I don't consider saying that as hate speech, just one person's observation.   There was a ton of expectation that the Zs10 would be the Kz that would crash the price barrier of the $500+ big boys and while it may be good at the $50 mark (and I think that is debatable) it is not the miraculous giant slaying second coming of the messiah that some had hoped for.    Big difference in hate and pragmatism.


----------



## HungryPanda

nxnje said:


> Yo guys,
> trying to switch my foam tips with many silicon tips in these days (i've got plenty of them) but every time i wear ANY silicon tip i always feel strange in the ear.
> I don't know how to explain but i feel like i can't hear sound and if i turn right for example i can't hear the sound coming from the right side, or i can hear it very very bad.
> i have a strange vacuum feeling with them and i even tried friend's spinfit ones which give me the same feeling. That was another reason why i gave away my kz zs3 but now i find it in the same way with memt x5, xiaomi piston and any other iem.
> ...


 Try to go up a size of silicone tip, if you use medium go large, that works for me with certain earphones


----------



## Otto Motor

stimuz said:


> The ZS10s are fantastic at their price point imo and are in my regular rotation of T2/IT01/ZS10. I still love CM5 but I think more than 2 regularly used IEMs is already pushing it. Pretty satisfied at this point but I still want a solid pair of earbuds. Honestly if CM5 was rereleased with a less ugly shell and 2 pin or MMCX its all I would ever need but to me it's definitely set the bar for chifi, especially at the $12.





Wiljen said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the Zs10 at this point.  I think the sound is a step backward from the Zsr.    I don't consider saying that as hate speech, just one person's observation.   There was a ton of expectation that the Zs10 would be the Kz that would crash the price barrier of the $500+ big boys and while it may be good at the $50 mark (and I think that is debatable) it is not the miraculous giant slaying second coming of the messiah that some had hoped for.    Big difference in hate and pragmatism.


I completely agree with you Wiljen. Not everything is black and white. There are a lot of people who like the ZS10, like stimuz.


----------



## nxnje

HungryPanda said:


> Try to go up a size of silicone tip, if you use medium go large, that works for me with certain earphones



I've already tried switching to bigger silicon tips, but then they don't fit my ear as they're too big.
The fact is that medium size is perfect as fitting for my ear, but i can't really find a way to not be fatigued by wearing silicon tips as they affect my sensations and perception with the in ear itself.
I always have this annoying sense of vacuum in the ear as if a doctor is visiting my ear with some stuff that goes deep into the ear canal.
And if i turn my head, the earphone of the side i turn to watch loses clarity and i hear al muffled like if the sound comes from the deepest part of the ear canal.. it's very annoying, dunno how to explain better..


----------



## Otto Motor (May 7, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> He's probably had bout 15 minutes of listening time, he'd need to smash some power into them let them cook for a bit in a nice sizzling puddle of Pink Noise Fading in and out some Big dirty sweeps.... yeah they're gonna need a week or two of straight thrashing. my zs6's are still getting better and better... i practically never stop running them... still settling in must have at least 500+ hours on them already. The zs10's will be a nightmare in this regard I can tell. won't stop me from getting them, i'll bake em for a month and then test them. anyone giving impressions with under 50 hours of serious thrash time is just blowing warm air in my own godforsaken opinion.


This reviewer is somewhat challenged. He doesn't get a decent sound out of it because he connected the cable wrong. I then watched the other youtube reviews of the ZS10, none of which had any substance. All these guys lacked a certain basic talent...but they played nice background music.


----------



## mbwilson111

Otto Motor said:


> he connected the cable wrong



People pointed that out in the comments and he replied that he had tried putting on another cable and just put the stock one back on accidently for the review... that he had listened the correct way.  But something does not seem right.  Even people here who have not liked them have not said it sounds like a paper cup.


----------



## BrunoC

nxnje said:


> I've already tried switching to bigger silicon tips, but then they don't fit my ear as they're too big.
> The fact is that medium size is perfect as fitting for my ear, but i can't really find a way to not be fatigued by wearing silicon tips as they affect my sensations and perception with the in ear itself.
> I always have this annoying sense of vacuum in the ear as if a doctor is visiting my ear with some stuff that goes deep into the ear canal.
> And if i turn my head, the earphone of the side i turn to watch loses clarity and i hear al muffled like if the sound comes from the deepest part of the ear canal.. it's very annoying, dunno how to explain better..



Then try  Ear Plush Tips. Maybe you'll  like them. They sure are fluffy.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...s-Eartips-Ear-Sleeve-Ear-Tip/32763218632.html


----------



## nxnje

BrunoC said:


> Then try  Ear Plush Tips. Maybe you'll  like them. They sure are fluffy.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...s-Eartips-Ear-Sleeve-Ear-Tip/32763218632.html



Whattttt??
Which material are they made of?
They seem like cotton or something like dat


----------



## SciOC

nxnje said:


> I've already tried switching to bigger silicon tips, but then they don't fit my ear as they're too big.
> The fact is that medium size is perfect as fitting for my ear, but i can't really find a way to not be fatigued by wearing silicon tips as they affect my sensations and perception with the in ear itself.
> I always have this annoying sense of vacuum in the ear as if a doctor is visiting my ear with some stuff that goes deep into the ear canal.
> And if i turn my head, the earphone of the side i turn to watch loses clarity and i hear al muffled like if the sound comes from the deepest part of the ear canal.. it's very annoying, dunno how to explain better..


This sounds like  driver flex (all sets you mention have dynamic drivers).  Open your mouth wide when you insert them and that could help.  

As for long term comfort, I can't do anything about that but the kz starline tips are pretty comfortable to me versus most other silicon tips.  In general I just find that foam is much more comfortable over time.

Overall, I have the same issues with silicon tips and dynamic driver sets.  To test to see if it is flex, try the same tips with something with only BA drivers and see if you can replicate it, if not, it's driver flex.  BA sets won't do it.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> People pointed that out in the comments and he replied that he had tried putting on another cable and just put the stock one back on accidently for the review... that he had listened the correct way.  But something does not seem right.  Even people here who have not liked them have not said it sounds like a paper cup.



Agreed - paper cup description sounds suspiciously like they were plugged in out of phase...


----------



## WildSeven

nxnje said:


> Whattttt??
> Which material are they made of?
> They seem like cotton or something like dat


The best seal is created when your ear oil and the silicon tip are sticked together. I don't think that tip will give you good bass.


----------



## Zerohour88

Wiljen said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the Zs10 at this point.  I think the sound is a step backward from the Zsr.    I don't consider saying that as hate speech, just one person's observation.   There was a ton of expectation that the Zs10 would be the Kz that would crash the price barrier of the $500+ big boys and while it may be good at the $50 mark (and I think that is debatable) it is not the miraculous giant slaying second coming of the messiah that some had hoped for.    Big difference in hate and pragmatism.



I honestly want to see if there are any reviewers/threads that thought the ZS10 would be a revelation, so I can avoid them.


----------



## maxxevv

mbwilson111 said:


> People pointed that out in the comments and he replied that he had tried putting on another cable and just put the stock one back on accidently for the review... that he had listened the correct way.  But something does not seem right.  Even people here who have not liked them have not said it sounds like a paper cup.



He's just creating controversy so that more people will view his video.


----------



## Podster (May 7, 2018)

So family finally had our first biking outing of the season yesterday, even my baby has great taste in iem's Now if I could just get him to get his helmet straps right


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> So family finally had our first biking outing of the season yesterday, even my baby has great taste in iem's Now if I could just get him to get his helmet straps right



I don't see a baby...


----------



## Podster

So true, he's about to be 15 but still my baby His big brother turned 39 back in Feb. so we won't even talk about how old the Pod is


----------



## Makahl

I was struggling to find an eartip besides the stock ones which can stay and doesn't ending up stuck in my ears for the ZS3, so, I decided to create a foam one using 3M ear plugs + 3$ leather hole punch. I thought that would give me a darker sound and sounding way too warm, but in fact, it's really good! (maybe because I'm using a bright source like Sabaj DA2). Also, using those foams it can isolate more than Etymotic ER4 so... it's kind of creepy using them outside or at work but perfect for noisy environments. Comfort 10/10.


----------



## SciOC

Just A-B-ing the zsr and zs10 today now that both have more time on them, the zsr is generally better.  

The other day I thought the zs10 was a good deal for the $46 I paid.  I still think that's probably true, it's just that the zsr is a freakin steal for $26.

I can definitely see why a lot of people see the zs10 as a disappointment. Maybe zs10v2 will be good (assuming it happens)?


----------



## rayliam80

Wiljen said:


> Question regarding the latest 2 KZs I have tried (Zsr, Zs10).  Has anyone else noticed a metric ton of driver flex in both of these when inserting them?   I am finding that when inserting either of the most recent ones I have received they have very pronounced and very audible driver flex,  I am finding the seal to be a bit better with Foams on the Zs10 but I still am pretty dissappointed with the overall sound signature and I am wondering if the driver flex is indicating that I got a pair that shouldn't have passed QC of it is just inherent to the design.



I haven't noticed any driver flex since receiving my ZS10 last Friday. I used them for about an hour with the KZ starline tips then switched the tips to my Auvio Wide Bores then over to my triple flange tips from Earphone Plus (Amazon). The triple flange give me the best sound and no driver flex but I am only inserting them like 1/2 to 3/4 in so they do stick out of my ears somewhat.


----------



## pbui44

Podster said:


> So true, he's about to be 15 but still my baby His big brother turned 39 back in Feb. so we won't even talk about how old the Pod is



Dude, that is a HUGE age gap.  It’s like the entire Austin Powers series in real life!


----------



## Podster

pbui44 said:


> Dude, that is a HUGE age gap.  It’s like the entire Austin Powers series in real life!



Never thought of it like that, had the first one at 22 and my second at 44! Doubt the current is going to want to try in four more years for # 4 when I'm 66 (won't be for not trying though)

Just need the Greens to round out my diet


----------



## stryed

How is isolation on the KZ ZS6 vs the ZS5? Does the vents make a huge downgrade? I listen to the ZS5 on commute and am thinking of a replacement pair as I've lost mine a few months ago. Which version has the lip by the way?


----------



## Podster

stryed said:


> How is isolation on the KZ ZS6 vs the ZS5? Does the vents make a huge downgrade? I listen to the ZS5 on commute and am thinking of a replacement pair as I've lost mine a few months ago. Which version has the lip by the way?



The newest Gray one has the lip and I personally find little difference in isolation in the 5 and 6.


----------



## stryed

Podster said:


> The newest Gray one has the lip and I personally find little difference in isolation in the 5 and 6.


Any sound difference between the Grey (that's advertised as bassier) and the others according to you?


----------



## pbui44

Podster said:


> Never thought of it like that, had the first one at 22 and my second at 44! Doubt the current is going to want to try in four more years for # 4 when I'm 66 (won't be for not trying though)
> 
> Just need the Greens to round out my diet



Greens are coming here on May 14th, order now:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075D96MJJ?tag=3340693-headfi-20&th=1&psc=1


----------



## Podster

pbui44 said:


> Greens are coming here on May 14th, order now:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075D96MJJ?tag=3340693-headfi-20&th=1&psc=1



Wow, $48.99. In all honesty I believe the ZS6 is easily a $50 iem

@stryed  I find them to sound a little more lively, for some that may translate to bassier but to me they come off as sounding more efficient than the originals (Red, Black & Green)


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2018)

stryed said:


> Which version has the lip by the way?





Podster said:


> The newest Gray one has the lip...



Some of the newest grey ZS6 have the lip. And, some of the newest non-grey ZS6 have the lip too!

It's basically luck of the draw. My advice is to not order it expecting the lip, and if it arrives with a lip then it's like getting an extra cherry on top your sundae!


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2018)

stryed said:


> Any sound difference between the Grey (that's advertised as bassier) and the others according to you?



Nope, I busted that myth. Even backed it up with FR measurements. And I have 6 pairs I tested. Any slight variances between individual ZS6 are due to QC variations only.

The "extra bass" name is just marketing voodoo. All ZS6 are 100% exactly the same other than color (and some have the eartip lip).


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Some of the newest grey ZS6 have the lip. And, some of the newest non-grey ZS6 have the lip too!
> 
> It's basically luck of the draw. My advice is to not order it expecting the lip, and if it arrives with a lip then it's like getting an extra cherry on top your sundae!



LOL, or not and then your cherry is popped Come to think of it I don't even think I've checked my black pair


----------



## pbui44

So does my green one have a lip on the nozzle?


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> So does my green one have a lip on the nozzle?



Photo is blurry and it's hard to tell.

Here's a clearer photo - see the lip at the very end of the nozzle? Compare this to yours and see if yours has this lip:


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> Photo is blurry and it's hard to tell.
> 
> Here's a clearer photo - see the lip at the very end of the nozzle? Compare this to yours and see if yours has this lip:



Yes, that is why I tried to shine some light on the nozzle, which shows the break at the end of the nozzle.


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> Yes, that is why I tried to shine some light on the nozzle, which shows the break at the end of the nozzle.



Cool. Looks like you're one of the lucky ones 

In your photo, it looks your camera/phone focused on the cable that was passing directly in front of the IEM. That made everything else be out of focus (including the nozzle tip).


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Never thought of it like that, had the first one at 22 and my second at 44! Doubt the current is going to want to try in four more years for # 4 when I'm 66 (won't be for not trying though)
> 
> Just need the Greens to round out my diet



Love the gray/pewter pair and I've no qualms with paying full price for them either. Even though it's KZ's most expensive model, Amazon's $46 is a good price.

BTW, are those cables holding up well (has oxidation set in - gone green)?


----------



## sino8r

So, it seems that the KZ ZSAs will only have 1 BA and 1 DD per side. They may not even be the KZ YZ35 models from the KZ 2018 list? http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsa-officially-announced-news/


----------



## sino8r

DocHoliday said:


> Love the gray/pewter pair and I've no qualms with paying full price for them either. Even though it's KZ's most expensive model, Amazon's $46 is a good price.
> 
> BTW, are those cables holding up well (has oxidation set in - gone green)?



The ZS10s are going for $59 on Amazon right now lol! I got a new pair of the silver cables https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B2PH2M9/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_q6q8Ab1G8H6D3 Seem to be pretty solid although they'll probably just be back ups for when the TRN bluetooth batteries die. They last all day so I probably won't use them much.


----------



## DocHoliday

sino8r said:


> The ZS10s are going for $59 on Amazon right now lol! I got a new pair of the silver cables https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B2PH2M9/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_q6q8Ab1G8H6D3 Seem to be pretty solid although they'll probably just be back ups for when the TRN bluetooth batteries die. They last all day so I probably won't use them much.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07B...ds=KZ+ZS10&dpPl=1&dpID=41Rit5TV35L&ref=plSrch


----------



## ShakyJake

Podster said:


> Wow, $48.99. In all honesty I believe the ZS6 is easily a $50 iem



While it may be true that the ZS6 is better than most $50 iems, I would rather have the Tin Audio T2 that retails at $50. Since I got mine at recent the Ali sale for $32, I consider the two to be in a similar price range. The T2 is just very special. In fact, I just did an A/B comparison with my AT-M50's and the T2s were much more detailed and with a more defined low end.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Wow, $48.99. In all honesty I believe the ZS6 is easily a $50 iem



I was lucky enough to pay $19.99 shipped for 2 pairs of mine. Worth every penny!

I'm not sure why the price has shot up so much though. Seller gouging? Supply and demand? No clue. Glad I stocked up on 'em though


----------



## rayliam80

sino8r said:


> The ZS10s are going for $59 on Amazon right now lol! I got a new pair of the silver cables https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B2PH2M9/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_q6q8Ab1G8H6D3 Seem to be pretty solid although they'll probably just be back ups for when the TRN bluetooth batteries die. They last all day so I probably won't use them much.



I used that same silver cable with my ZS10 over the weekend. I've switched back to the stock cable to give it a chance but I definitely feel like switching back to the silver cable. I'll be posting my ZS10 (stock) impressions soon.


----------



## rayliam80

ShakyJake said:


> While it may be true that the ZS6 is better than most $50 iems, I would rather have the Tin Audio T2 that retails at $50. Since I got mine at recent the Ali sale for $32, I consider the two to be in a similar price range. The T2 is just very special. In fact, I just did an A/B comparison with my AT-M50's and the T2s were much more detailed and with a more defined low end.



I kinda hate my ATH-M50X after all my recent IEM purchases now. I'm thinking of selling them. Or maybe trading them for an IEM/Earbud.


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> I was lucky enough to pay $19.99 shipped for 2 pairs of mine. Worth every penny!
> 
> I'm not sure why the price has shot up so much though. Seller gouging? Supply and demand? No clue. Glad I stocked up on 'em though




I paid between US$22 ~ 27 for multiple pairs during various offers over the course of about 3~5 months. Think its a demand and supply thing. 

The ZS6 is a wonderful earphone IF the genre of music your listen to suits it though.  I really like it for pure instrumental music be it acoustic or full bore classical symphony orchestra. 

However, its sibilance for quite a lot of vocal tracks is seriously evident, and can be downright a turnoff. The vocal tracks that seem not to be affected by it are those of the earlier, pre-90's era or those that have zero / negligible digital processing. (unfortunately a vast percentage do have that )


----------



## Slater

rayliam80 said:


> I kinda hate my ATH-M50X after all my recent IEM purchases now. I'm thinking of selling them. Or maybe trading them for an IEM/Earbud.



You could always mod them to improve the sound. Or even swap out the drivers for something closer to what you like.


----------



## bsoplinger

Makahl said:


> I was struggling to find an eartip besides the stock ones which can stay and doesn't ending up stuck in my ears for the ZS3, so, I decided to create a foam one using 3M ear plugs + 3$ leather hole punch. I thought that would give me a darker sound and sounding way too warm, but in fact, it's really good! (maybe because I'm using a bright source like Sabaj DA2). Also, using those foams it can isolate more than Etymotic ER4 so... it's kind of creepy using them outside or at work but perfect for noisy environments. Comfort 10/10.…


If you do that with the slightly smaller rounded tip end and fold a large silicone ear tip over it you'll have your very own Symbio ear tip.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, i'm looking to give my bro a pair of iem's, i can't spend too much so budget would be around the ZST/Sub-ZST, i already have a pair of ZST so i don't wanna offer what i have and i'm not familiar with the ED line, what are the most easy to listen to (not fatiguing) and comfortable?

Thanks,


----------



## DSebastiao

pbui44 said:


> So does my green one have a lip on the nozzle?



When and where did you bought it?


----------



## snip3r77

Slater said:


> Nope, I busted that myth. Even backed it up with FR measurements. And I have 6 pairs I tested. Any slight variances between individual ZS6 are due to QC variations only.
> 
> The "extra bass" name is just marketing voodoo. All ZS6 are 100% exactly the same other than color (and some have the eartip lip).


Yeah we should be wary of such voodoos


----------



## snip3r77

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i'm looking to give my bro a pair of iem's, i can't spend too much so budget would be around the ZST/Sub-ZST, i already have a pair of ZST so i don't wanna offer what i have and i'm not familiar with the ED line, what are the most easy to listen to (not fatiguing) and comfortable?
> 
> Thanks,


Tennmak pro comes to mind


----------



## Podster (May 8, 2018)

Hello Doc, these tri-briad have gotten a little dingy but not turned green. Actually the only cable I have that's turned really green are the permanent ones on my TFZ Series 1s.


ShakyJake said:


> While it may be true that the ZS6 is better than most $50 iems, I would rather have the Tin Audio T2 that retails at $50. Since I got mine at recent the Ali sale for $32, I consider the two to be in a similar price range. The T2 is just very special. In fact, I just did an A/B comparison with my AT-M50's and the T2s were much more detailed and with a more defined low end.



Two totally different iem's with different SS of which you appear to like the T2 but you do seem to have a plethora of KZ's I find my T2's to be a D2000 light at least to my ears but then again this is the beauty of this hobby no one is really wrong in what they enjoyLong as you are injoying your music you are a winner

Even kind of resemble the D2000


----------



## phower

rayliam80 said:


> I kinda hate my ATH-M50X after all my recent IEM purchases now. I'm thinking of selling them. Or maybe trading them for an IEM/Earbud.


The M50X  is on the wall of fame at Inner fidelity. It is used as a studio monitor and some of its advantages include very low distortion in the sub-bass region, FR curve on target, built like a tank.

I am never selling mine.


----------



## homerograco (May 8, 2018)

Hi! I am new to the forum, but have a lot of KZ IEMs and got the new ZS10s. I agree to a lot of people here that their bass response bleeds into the mids, and I miss some of the sparkle of mine ZS5 v1. I am testing some EQ settings to make them more neutral, and I am getting very happy with the following one:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z1GVZWih9XuWuN6L6

(please tell me if the link works)


----------



## KipNix

This is why I generally avoid Amazon.ca. They have the ZS10 for about $80 Canadian, but Ali has it for $60 Canadian.
Now I know why Bezos is getting $10 billion a month. I'm not kidding.


----------



## phower

homerograco said:


> Hi! I am new to the forum, but have a lot of KZ IEMs and got the new ZS10s. I agree to a lot of people here that their bass response bleeds into the mids, and I miss some of the sparkle of mine ZS5 v1. I am testing some EQ settings to make them more neutral, and I am getting very happy with the following one:
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Z1GVZWih9XuWuN6L6
> 
> (please tell me if the link works)


Looking at the graph from audiobudget.com, I would rather cut 200-400Hz(the midrange low end). Always prefer a cut to a boost.


----------



## pbui44

KipNix said:


> This is why I generally avoid Amazon.ca. They have the ZS10 for about $80 Canadian, but Ali has it for $60 Canadian.
> Now I know why Bezos is getting $10 billion a month. I'm not kidding.



No, you have to look at the entire scope of Bezos and just realize that he is part of the New World Order, which sucks because you will probably have to wait more than two weeks ordering somewhere else. 

$50 for an IEM that was $10 months ago?  Well, considering that a JVC-FXT100-borrowed dual-dynamic-driver system with a JVC-FX-Wooden-series-borrowed ventilation system and CA-Nova-borrowed BA-driver system wrapped up in an CA-inspired-aluminum-alloy-housing and a nice shade of Andromeda-green-color all-round makes this a $50 IEM that is totally worth it.  Oh yeah, and 96-straight-hours of album-playback-burn-in is totally real to a burn-in sceptic as well.


----------



## groucho69

rayliam80 said:


> I kinda hate my ATH-M50X after all my recent IEM purchases now. I'm thinking of selling them. Or maybe trading them for an IEM/Earbud.



A buddy has been telling me to get the 40X. He says they are miles better. Personally I have no idea.


----------



## homerograco

groucho69 said:


> A buddy has been telling me to get the 40X. He says they are miles better. Personally I have no idea.


 There's been a lot of talk about M40X vs. M50X lately, but I am not sure they are even correct. I own the M50X and know they are on par with my ZS5 (yeah... I was also one of the people not really impressed when I got them, specially coming from KZ)


----------



## KipNix

DocHoliday said:


> Your observation may not be very far from the truth if the balanced armatures in the ZS10 are simply the ZSR balanced armatures times two.  We know that both the ZSR and the ZS10 share KZ's 10mm dynamic driver and KZ's 30095 BA. If the ZSR midrange BA is KZ's 50060 BA found in the ZS10 then it will be interesting to hear the differences in sound signature between the ZSR and ZS10. Reinforcing the midrange and the tamed treble by doubling the BAs should make them more forward or at the very least the midrange and treble should have more presence. It will be interesting to hear how the more recessed positioning of the BAs changes the presentation.



You nailed it, Doc! 
I'm reading reports of "punchy", "blown up", "piercing", "fake" mids or upper mids.
You saved me $60 CAD and I'll research the other KZ models mentioned.


----------



## chihwahli (May 8, 2018)

Hey all,

Just sharing my thoughts about the KZ ZS10:

Laptop --> USB --> Schiit Bifrost 4490 --> DT880 600 ohm / KZ ZS10
Music: 16 bit Flac diverse

There should be a difference between DT880 600 ohm and ZS10 , but I find it really difficult to hear the difference. I have been A-B'ing several times at a specific song / and part of the song and they sound almost identical.

My ear aint traint, but even then I should hear difference.... any ideas or other people who tried the combo DT880 600 ohm vs KZ ZS10?

Edit: I am listening to a electric Flac from Reyer "in jesus name" and I do hear difference! The DT880 sounds more clear, the sounds are more spacious. The funny part is that this depends on the music played.... in some songs I hardly hear difference.....

Edit #2: Ofcourse a strange test, but I do not own that many headphones or IEM's. Only these 3, and the KZ ZST pro...

I should have heared it before, the soundstage is much smaller. ZS10 bass sounds like I have my ear near it. It sounds much stronger. DT880, the bass is further away. Much more subtle


----------



## Bartig

Got myself a few.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

chihwahli said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just sharing my thoughts about the KZ ZS10:
> 
> ...


That DAC/amp could be doing all sorts of weird things to the signal with its 75 ohm output impedance. Also all unbiased measurements I've ever seen of Schiit gear have indicated high distortion and poor resolution.

With that said, I own the DT880 and ZS10 and the differences should be staggering in the midrange/treble region. Looking at frequency response graphs, they literally have their peaks and gaps reversed in the 2-5 kHz and 5-10 kHz regions.


----------



## oneula

groucho69 said:


> A buddy has been telling me to get the 40X. He says they are miles better. Personally I have no idea.



I had the ATH50x modded them and the tried the ATH40X after seeing Zeos's review. End up giving away the 50's and keeping the 40's.
for a closed back the y are great like  the CB1s just a little more dynamic than the CB1s. I also have the beyerdynamic 770Pros closed backs

The IEMs if you fine a good set that fits well eliminates the need to the big bulky over ears unless you want a planar like the HIFI mans or sennheisers.
I'd rather travel with an IEM than an over ear where as at home I like the over ears.


----------



## xxxreyxxx

Which one most suitable eartips for kz zs5:
1. Spiral Dot
2. Ortofon
3. Comply
Stock eartips seem not good for me..


----------



## pbui44

xxxreyxxx said:


> Which one most suitable eartips for kz zs5:
> 1. Spiral Dot
> 2. Ortofon
> 3. Comply
> Stock eartips seem not good for me..



SpinFit


----------



## DSebastiao

snip3r77 said:


> Tennmak pro comes to mind



Those are kinda off-budget, but how do they compate with the ZS6 or ZSR?


----------



## HungryPanda

I like RHA tips


----------



## HerrXRDS

Does burning in the ZS10 make any significant difference?


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i'm looking to give my bro a pair of iem's, i can't spend too much so budget would be around the ZST/Sub-ZST, i already have a pair of ZST so i don't wanna offer what i have and i'm not familiar with the ED line, what are the most easy to listen to (not fatiguing) and comfortable?
> 
> Thanks,



I would go with EDR1

It's the perfect introduction to ChiFi, and runs about $4

Plus you'd get an opportunity to hear them.


----------



## WildSeven

HerrXRDS said:


> Does burning in the ZS10 make any significant difference?


Burn in only works for DD, BA will not benefit from burn in, but to each their own YMMV.


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> I would go with EDR1
> 
> It's the perfect introduction to ChiFi, and runs about $4
> 
> Plus you'd get an opportunity to hear them.



What about ones with removable cable? That would be ideal.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Enjoy yourselves, and good luck!

The Contraptionist / Head-Fi


   ​


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> What about ones with removable cable? That would be ideal.



Well, the way I always view the EDR1, is that at $4 each you can afford to replace them when the cable goes bad. I mean think about it - a halfway decent MMCX costs $15-$30 for just the cable alone; you can get 4-7 pairs of EDR1 for that.


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> Well, the way I always view the EDR1, is that at $4 each you can afford to replace them when the cable goes bad. I mean think about it - a halfway decent MMCX costs $15-$30 for just the cable alone; you can get 4-7 pairs of EDR1 for that.



Why not the EDR2? Same price. I'm ok with spending a little more, and was expecting something like the ES3 or the ED9, ATE/ZSE, but then again i'm not familiar with the lower line of KZ's iems.


----------



## Slater (May 8, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Why not the EDR2? Same price. I'm ok with spending a little more, and was expecting something like the ES3 or the ED9, ATE/ZSE, but then again i'm not familiar with the lower line of KZ's iems.



I like the sound of the EDR1 more, and it feels like it has better build quality due to the heavier zinc alloy body.

Although if you're OK with spending more, then the ZSR is one of the best in the KZ lineup. I just thought you didn't want to spend any more than the ZST.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 8, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Got myself a few.



I also got myself a few: 5 pints...which prohibit me from reading/comprehending B9's presumably very interesting review of the ZS10 right now.


----------



## ShakyJake

Podster said:


> Two totally different iem's with different SS of which you appear to like the T2 but you do seem to have a plethora of KZ's I find my T2's to be a D2000 light at least to my ears but then again this is the beauty of this hobby no one is really wrong in what they enjoyLong as you are injoying your music you are a winner
> 
> Even kind of resemble the D2000



We are all winners!

Just for grins, I plugged in my red KZ6 tonight to listen to Beethoven's 9th Symphony to compare with the Tin Audio T2s. Both are really good, with the KZ6 taking the price for soundstage and presence, while the neutrality of the T2 gives more details to each instrument. Maybe it is just that my T2 is newer and thus more "shiny" and alluring  The KZ6 was my favorite before getting the T2. I consider myself lucky to not be bothered by the so-called "treble cannons" in the KZ6, except on some poor recordings.

There are so many parameters involved here. One of my biggest lessons has been to find the right tips for my iems. I tend to prefer the (Anrui) foams from Aliexpress, since they give me a very good seal for my tiny ear openings. But this choice may also bias my choice towards certain iems.


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> Enjoy yourselves, and good luck!
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-Fi
> 
> ​



Great review, B9! Glad to know that KZ has offered up another warm, yet detailed IEM. The most interesting bit, if I'm reading in between the lines correctly, is that, apparently, the ZS10 offers impressive resolution for the midrange without sounding analytical (typical BA presentation).

When I first received my ZS5(i) I was a little disappointed in the slightly recessed midrange but once I discovered a source that can bring them to life.......well, let's just say that they're almost magical. 

It seems that the ZS10, like the ZS5(i) will be enjoyed by hobbyists that appreciate a laid back sense of detail with even better layering and separation.

My ZS6 is loaded with detail from top to bottom and I think it was wise of KZ not to go down the same road twice; the ZS6 and the ZS10 appear to sit at opposite ends of the spectrum with each holding their own at a welcome price-to-performance ratio. Looking forward to getting a set of ZS10's for myself. 

I'll post feedback when I've spent some time with them (early impressions were all over the place and the knee-jerk reactions were dubious). Thanks for a level-headed point of view.

By the way, great photo!



Spoiler


----------



## nxnje

SciOC said:


> This sounds like  driver flex (all sets you mention have dynamic drivers).  Open your mouth wide when you insert them and that could help.
> 
> As for long term comfort, I can't do anything about that but the kz starline tips are pretty comfortable to me versus most other silicon tips.  In general I just find that foam is much more comfortable over time.
> 
> Overall, I have the same issues with silicon tips and dynamic driver sets.  To test to see if it is flex, try the same tips with something with only BA drivers and see if you can replicate it, if not, it's driver flex.  BA sets won't do it.



I'm trying everything but i can't fix this issue.
What's annoying is that i really wanna buy a pair of kz zsr but i've heard that like zs3 can't be wear with foam tips as it makes the bass muddy and it ruins listening experience.
That's why i'm trying in many ways to fix this.. why always me?


----------



## afico

did someone of you make a comparison of kz zs6 and fiio f9 pro? well i did it..i prefer Kz (after massive burn in cable change).
The Fiio are treble hammers ...really.


----------



## rayliam80

Between the ZS6 and the ZS10, at first I wasn't hearing major differences that really set them apart from each other. Sure, the ZS10 seems to have rolled off the middle to upper treble region versus the ZS6 with it's tendency towards sizzling shhhh highs on certain tracks. This leads to the ZS6 being brighter overall in comparison. But with the roll off going on somewhere in the treble region, is this leading to the missing micro details in the ZS10 I've come to love in the ZS6? Hmm. 

Using the same cable and swapping the ZS10 and ZS6 with the same tips, the ZS6 are noticeably louder. Also, the ZS10 bass in the deep to midbass region seems to have been rolled off too. Finally, I want to say that vocals, overall, are just a tiny bit thicker on the ZS10 but I have to listen very closely for it to catch it. Vocals seem to come off slightly better on the ZS10 but for me, it's nowhere near the IT01 when it comes to vocals. So for the time being and to my ears, I'm concluding that the ZS10 is just a tamer, less bright version of the ZS6 that's less prone to listening fatigue at the sacrifice of some micro detail. 

And when I first heard the ZS6 at the end of last year, I was extremely impressed with them and it was those (and the LG V30) that got me back into buying IEMs again. Maybe the ZS6 has a soft spot in my heart since they've given me more of a "wow" factor out of all the KZ I've tried despite their flaws. Between them, I feel like the ZS10 is the sort of IEM you could start to build a life around, dedicate more time to, and look towards having a long, healthy and positive relationship with. But the green ZS6, it's that contact in your phone, the IEM who you fantasize about when the ZS10 is beside you sleeping soundly in bed and you still long for the ZS6 even though you know it's probably never going to work, even though you know that it always leads to some sort of disagreement but there is something there that keeps drawing you back for more...


----------



## xxxreyxxx

pbui44 said:


> SpinFit


which spinfit ?


----------



## pbui44

xxxreyxxx said:


> which spinfit ?



Spinfit CP100 for the KZ ZS6.


----------



## nxnje

rayliam80 said:


> I kinda hate my ATH-M50X after all my recent IEM purchases now. I'm thinking of selling them. Or maybe trading them for an IEM/Earbud.


If you're searching for a fun sounding headphone, then ath m50x is not for u. Same thing if u plan buying another studio set like dt770pro or sennheiser hd380, dt990pro, hd600

They are not fun sounding headphones and they have to be listened just for what they were made. 
I use my superlux hd681f while i produce my music (that are 90% comparable to my akg k240mkll) and i don't like them so hard when i listen to music.
They are very precise and feel flat, perfect for tracking, equalizing, hearing the sound how it was created, but if i wanna have a listening session that gives me energy and fun, i just go over with other sets.


----------



## loomisjohnson

B9Scrambler said:


> Enjoy yourselves, and good luck!
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-Fi
> 
> ​


scrambler, this was a very well-written review which was refreshingly free of the typical cliched formula.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> I am sitting here wearing a purple Tshirt with a purple fleece over it (chilly in the house... about 62 F) using my purple mouse on my purple mousemat, drinking tea from a purple mug that sits on a purple silicone coaster with a purple chair mat under my feet.   And, there is something else purple in this photo (taken from where I sit):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Well I think, your tea may be purple too.

Lol


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> of course... although I never get to hear those because they are never comfortable for me...
> 
> My husband has three.
> 
> Is Superlux Chinese?  I love my Superlux HD 681 EVO


Taiwanese


----------



## dhruvmeena96

HungryPanda said:


> And they are termite proof


Its a grado tuning


----------



## dhruvmeena96

sino8r said:


> I do wonder how wooden phones sound. I'd imagine that resonance would have play a huge factor in order to take advantage of the wood qualities. I've seen a few online but kinda thought that they might be a gimmick. But alas, I'm not as knowledgeable as you folks. Curious if some manufacturer went to the Alps and used a Spruce that is several hundred years old (lived through the little ice age). Would it sound better like a Stradivarius?


Bro.....there are two tones in nature and science.

Fundamental tone: sound coming from the source.
Overtone: wet, dry, cavity, and damping factor comes in play.

Dry factor is reflected signal from wall, without any change in phase(back of speaker, reflecting g it backl

Wet factor is reverb.

Cavity factor set the timing between the reverb and the volume of reverb.

Damp factor damps the tone certain frequency type, like mahagony sounds warm because it damps mids and treble, gaboon ebony sounds analytical because it damps everything making fundamental tone priority.


This all happens on the pore of wood. Now all wood have different arrangement of grains which lead to different shapes and sizes of micropore and normal pore.

These shape and sizes with those factor above change the sound.

Well open back wood headphone consider all factor except the wet factor because, there is nothing behind which get reflected. So no open headphones get affected that much by wood except grado as there way of tuning driver is very advanced


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> The shell is  obviously the same.  Different drivers.  Graphene for the QKZ. I love mine.
> 
> Inside the TRN v10:
> 
> ...


That's a tfz driver made in graphene and thrown in trn v10 body


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> It had a nice spacious sound.  Keep in mind they were new out of the box, no burn in and I listened mostly in the middle of the night so was choosing relaxing albums.  I am not the one to ask about instrument placement,  I have no idea.  I am not a musician.  I am not a sound engineer.  I am simply a music lover and a person who gets too curious about new things.


Simple way of telling them

Listen to stax CD(space) for soundstage
Timing for instruments

Listen to all stax CD and tell them how it sounds


----------



## dhruvmeena96

WildSeven said:


> Burn in only works for DD, BA will not benefit from burn in, but to each their own YMMV.


Chinese BA do get affected


----------



## Tweeters

@dhruvmeena96 You just posted seven times in a row...we appreciate your contributions but please condense your posts


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Well all the post were scattered here and there and I replied one by one


----------



## bsoplinger

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Well all the post were scattered here and there and I replied one by one


You can collect them up as you read by just using the quote button.


----------



## mbwilson111

Tweeters said:


> @dhruvmeena96 You just posted seven times in a row...we appreciate your contributions but please condense your posts



That is actually one of the headfi rules.



dhruvmeena96 said:


> Well all the post were scattered here and there and I replied one by one



That is what multi-quote is for.



bsoplinger said:


> You can collect them up as you read by just using the quote button.



Yes. multi-quote does work.

See what I did there


----------



## Sylaw

So my Zs10s came today.. i left it to burn for about 6hrs ( i do believe in DD Breaking) , as soon as i gave it a listen i was beyond disappointing :/ . it sounded very hollow and very artificial compared to my Zs5s, Ie80s , Westone 4s.  i tried to mess with the eq an it didn't work to my favor either i ended up doing what i did for my IE80 ( adding a scotch tape piece over the two vents on each side). the mid bass bloat cleared up quite well.. i have to give it more ear time to tell y'all about how it sound with the tape and without . hope y'all can try this and give feedback too


----------



## Otto Motor (May 9, 2018)

Sylaw said:


> So my Zs10s came today.. i left it to burn for about 6hrs ( i do believe in DD Breaking) , as soon as i gave it a listen i was beyond disappointing :/ . it sounded very hollow and very artificial compared to my Zs5s, Ie80s , Westone 4s.  i tried to mess with the eq an it didn't work to my favor either i ended up doing what i did for my IE80 ( adding a scotch tape piece over the two vents on each side). the mid bass bloat cleared up quite well.. i have to give it more ear time to tell y'all about how it sound with the tape and without . hope y'all can try this and give feedback too


They don't sound hollow: check the cable connection/polarity and push them very very deep into your ear canal. Use the largest tips possible.

If there was something wrong, it would likely be only one of the earpieces. How to check this?
Use an earphone splitter, connect the ZS10 and another earphone, play a mono recording, and use one earpiece of each iem simultaneously. This will tell you...


----------



## raccoon city

I got some KZ ATE-S IEMs back in September.
Compared to my iLuv iEP322's, the KZ ATE-S IEMs have little volume, almost no bass, and they do not block ambient noise very well.
In other words, they aren't that great.
I'm glad I paid only $8.14 for them.
So disappointing.


----------



## Otto Motor

raccoon city said:


> I got some KZ ATE-S IEMs back in September.
> Compared to my iLuv iEP322's, the KZ ATE-S IEMs have little volume, almost no bass, and they do not block ambient noise very well.
> In other words, they aren't that great.
> I'm glad I paid only $8.14 for them.
> So disappointing.


Try bigger tips and push deeper into your ear canal. They are good iems.


----------



## Bartig

raccoon city said:


> I got some KZ ATE-S IEMs back in September.
> Compared to my iLuv iEP322's, the KZ ATE-S IEMs have little volume, almost no bass, and they do not block ambient noise very well.
> In other words, they aren't that great.
> I'm glad I paid only $8.14 for them.
> So disappointing.


The ATE block sound amazing! Try to put bigger tips on them. If you hear the bass well, you’ve got a good fit.


----------



## jeromeaparis

WildSeven said:


> Burn in only works for DD, BA will not benefit from burn in, but to each their own YMMV.



It seems to me that white noise can burn in trebble BA (experimented with KZ ZS6) while pink noise did not change anything, even after 120hrs


----------



## snip3r77

Sylaw said:


> So my Zs10s came today.. i left it to burn for about 6hrs ( i do believe in DD Breaking) , as soon as i gave it a listen i was beyond disappointing :/ . it sounded very hollow and very artificial compared to my Zs5s, Ie80s , Westone 4s.  i tried to mess with the eq an it didn't work to my favor either i ended up doing what i did for my IE80 ( adding a scotch tape piece over the two vents on each side). the mid bass bloat cleared up quite well.. i have to give it more ear time to tell y'all about how it sound with the tape and without . hope y'all can try this and give feedback too



I got this issue with my ZS5, need to swap  the cable if it's different polarity


----------



## SciOC

nxnje said:


> I'm trying everything but i can't fix this issue.
> What's annoying is that i really wanna buy a pair of kz zsr but i've heard that like zs3 can't be wear with foam tips as it makes the bass muddy and it ruins listening experience.
> That's why i'm trying in many ways to fix this.. why always me?


Don't believe everything you hear about how different tips make things sound.  Judge for yourself.  A lot of people just don't like foam tips.....  or silicon tips, or dual flange, etc.  

In general I find that if you get a proper seal, changes in tonality are minimal.  A good seal is also more likely to cause driver flex if you move around....


----------



## nxnje

SciOC said:


> Don't believe everything you hear about how different tips make things sound.  Judge for yourself.  A lot of people just don't like foam tips.....  or silicon tips, or dual flange, etc.
> 
> In general I find that if you get a proper seal, changes in tonality are minimal.  A good seal is also more likely to cause driver flex if you move around....



Do u think i could be ok with foam tips on the zsr?



Is there someone here who uses kz zsr with foam tips?


----------



## DocHoliday (May 9, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Between them, I feel like the ZS10 is the sort of IEM you could start to build a life around, dedicate more time to, and look towards having a long, healthy and positive relationship with. But the green ZS6, it's that contact in your phone, the IEM who you fantasize about when the ZS10 is beside you sleeping soundly in bed and you still long for the ZS6 even though you know it's probably never going to work, even though you know that it always leads to some sort of disagreement but there is something there that keeps drawing you back for more.



Dude......LOL........love the candor but let's hope your woman never reads this post.


Spoiler


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> I like the sound of the EDR1 more, and it feels like it has better build quality due to the heavier zinc alloy body.
> 
> Although if you're OK with spending more, then the ZSR is one of the best in the KZ lineup. I just thought you didn't want to spend any more than the ZST.



Yes, but i wanted to spend below the ZST, there's a lot of options there, i already have the ZSR's on the way for me and wanted something below the ZSR that's not the ZST.


----------



## loomisjohnson

DSebastiao said:


> Yes, but i wanted to spend below the ZST, there's a lot of options there, i already have the ZSR's on the way for me and wanted something below the ZSR that's not the ZST.


i'd go for the kz ed9, which remain one of the classics and looks and feels much more expensive than its $10 pricetag--exchangeable filters a plus


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I would have gone for es4.

They are really an upgrade over es3 and zst.
They are tonally balanced and don't have any peaks. Foam tips do ruin the bass, but not by huge amount as they are very tight in decay response.

Plus they are coherent on phase to my ear.


----------



## groucho69

DocHoliday said:


> Dude......LOL........love the candor but let's hope your woman never reads this post.
> 
> 
> Spoiler


----------



## Makahl

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I would have gone for es4.
> 
> *They are really an upgrade over es3 and zst.*
> They are tonally balanced and don't have any peaks. Foam tips do ruin the bass, but not by huge amount as they are very tight in decay response.
> ...



I thought ES4 was in pre-order atm. Did you get one pair already?


----------



## rayliam80

DocHoliday said:


> Dude......LOL........love the candor but let's hope your woman never reads this post.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



What happens in Head-Fi stays in Head-Fi


----------



## SciOC

nxnje said:


> Do u think i could be ok with foam tips on the zsr?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there someone here who uses kz zsr with foam tips?


I'll throw a pair of new bees on my zsr and let you know in a bit....   I have a suspicion that it'll be fine.


----------



## toddy0191

Makahl said:


> I thought ES4 was in pre-order atm. Did you get one pair already?



Mine shipped yesterday and I ordered them the day they went on AE so not sure how he's got them.  Nice to hear they sound good. 

Am back on my ED15s. Don't find them sibilant like @B9Scrambler but I remember others had their orders cancelled and reshipped so wonder if they were changed in any way???


----------



## SciOC

nxnje said:


> Do u think i could be ok with foam tips on the zsr?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there someone here who uses kz zsr with foam tips?


The new bees work fine, a little harder to get a good seal with but I don't think I'd tell the difference in a blind set up.  They might make it slightly darker sounding, but that could just be my brain.


----------



## nxnje

SciOC said:


> The new bees work fine, a little harder to get a good seal with but I don't think I'd tell the difference in a blind set up.  They might make it slightly darker sounding, but that could just be my brain.



Very gentle that u tested this for me! 
Today i've tried what people tipped me: make some warm water flow in the ear for like 20/30 secs! Things were a bit better but that feeling was in anyway but it's reduced if i wear the in-ear with the cable around, dunno why.

Hope i can have a good seal that guarantees me a good sound when i get my zsr.


----------



## groucho69

rayliam80 said:


> What happens in Head-Fi stays in Head-Fi



Until it gets delivered


----------



## Otto Motor (May 9, 2018)

Just in...the ED7 and ED7 mini...made of bamboo...by recommendation of Doc Holiday.

I hope there is no hungry panda around to eat them...already wrestled with the cat.

UPDATE:  I will be using the big ones in the rain. I hope they won't swell and I'll need to have them surgically removed.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> Just in...the ED7 and ED7 mini...made of bamboo...by recommendation of Doc Holiday.
> 
> *I hope there is no hungry panda around to eat them*...already wrestled with the cat.



I'd be more worried about snipers


----------



## riffrafff

Otto Motor said:


> I hope there is no hungry panda around to eat them...already wrestled with the cat.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Otto Motor said:


> Just in...the ED7 and ED7 mini...made of bamboo...by recommendation of Doc Holiday.
> 
> I hope there is no hungry panda around to eat them...already wrestled with the cat.
> 
> UPDATE:  I will be using the big ones in the rain. I hope they won't swell and I'll need to have them surgically removed.


they certainly look really cool...but how do they sound?


----------



## DocHoliday (May 9, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Just in...the ED7 and ED7 mini...made of bamboo...by recommendation of Doc Holiday.
> 
> I hope there is no hungry panda around to eat them...already wrestled with the cat.
> 
> UPDATE:  I will be using the big ones in the rain. I hope they won't swell and I'll need to have them surgically removed.



For me, narrow-bore  silicone that are small enough for deep insertion work best. They bring forth the midrange and tame the mid-bass a bit. Don't be afraid to give them some volume and pair them with your brighter-leaning DAP.


 

Side note:
If you are hunting for "inexpensive but fun" you might also try the UiiSii US90 or HM7. They've a bit more sparkle up top and are great bed buddies.



Spoiler


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (May 9, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Mine shipped yesterday and I ordered them the day they went on AE so not sure how he's got them.  Nice to hear they sound good.
> 
> Am back on my ED15s. Don't find them sibilant like @B9Scrambler but I remember others had their orders cancelled and reshipped so wonder if they were changed in any way???


I got them day before yesterday.

11pm


I live in India ATM....so China is way to near to me

It takes 3day to ship to my destination and 5days to 10days when a product is on pre order


----------



## Slater

raccoon city said:


> I got some KZ ATE-S IEMs back in September.
> Compared to my iLuv iEP322's, the KZ ATE-S IEMs have little volume, almost no bass, and they do not block ambient noise very well.
> In other words, they aren't that great.
> I'm glad I paid only $8.14 for them.
> So disappointing.



You weren't using the totally useless hard foam tips that came with them by any chance? If so, that's the problem...


----------



## Asimov90

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I got them day before yesterday.
> 
> 11pm
> 
> ...



Please tell us more about the ES4 I'm really looking forward to hearing reviews about them. I love the ES3 and wanted to know if the ES4 are a huge improvement over them.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Asimov90 said:


> Please tell us more about the ES4 I'm really looking forward to hearing reviews about them. I love the ES3 and wanted to know if the ES4 are a huge improvement over them.


Well ES4 have a very fast bass compared to ES3. And the treble is smoothened and doesn't have any peak. Its smooth and whole sound is tight on decay. But the mids follow the same laid back approach of zs10 but it is still forward compared to zs10.

They are coherent and phase corrected too. which ES3 wasnt


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2018)

DSebastiao said:


> Yes, but i wanted to spend below the ZST, there's a lot of options there, i already have the ZSR's on the way for me and wanted something below the ZSR that's not the ZST.



Well, then I am back to my EDR1 recommendation.

Basically, here are your sub-$12 KZ choices ($12 is what the ZST used to cost anyways):

ED7
ED7 Mini
ED9
ED12
EDR1
EDR2
EDSE
HDS3
ATE
ATR
ZS1
ZS2
ZN1 Mini
ZSE

Out of those, I would go with 1) EDR1, 2) ATR, 3) ED9, 4) EDR2, or 5) HDS3 (in that order).

Unless you venture out of the KZ brand, and then I would recommend the UiiSii CM5 for $12.

Or lemme ask this - what kind of prices are you finding the ZST at (and from where)?


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Very gentle that u tested this for me!
> Today i've tried what people tipped me: make some warm water flow in the ear for like 20/30 secs! Things were a bit better but that feeling was in anyway but it's reduced if i wear the in-ear with the cable around, dunno why.
> 
> Hope i can have a good seal that guarantees me a good sound when i get my zsr.



You can also use olive oil or hydrogen peroxide to help soften and flush out earwax buildup (best to see a doctor if you have a large buildup though).


----------



## Otto Motor (May 9, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> For me, narrow-bore  silicone that are small enough for deep insertion work best. They bring forth the midrange and tame the mid-bass a bit. Don't be afraid to give them some volume and pair them with your brighter-leaning DAP.
> 
> 
> Side note:
> ...




The ED7 delivered a robust sound on their first outing. The largest included tips worked for me but I had to push them deep into my ear canals. These work fine in noisy environments.

The ED7 plots solid in the Hamburger field. It sounds darkish and full.

Here a KZ engineer testing the bamboo - I was at the Chengdu facility twice some 10 years ago.


Spoiler


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> Well, then I am back to my EDR1 recommendation.
> 
> Basically, here are your sub-$12 KZ choices ($12 is what the ZST used to cost anyways):
> 
> ...



I'm finding them with the same price tag as you, around those 12 bucks.

Thanks, i think i'll go with the EDR1 then, it's available in a warehouse near me and i don't have enough time to order something that is only available in china.


----------



## Podster (May 9, 2018)

Well based on Otto's pics we can now just refer to these as your Fat Burg-Ears Or if you must stay within the KZ confines "Bamboo Warriors"


----------



## alex5908

pbui44 said:


> Spinfit CP100 for the KZ ZS6.


Unfortunately they don't kill the sibilants.


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> I'm finding them with the same price tag as you, around those 12 bucks.
> 
> Thanks, i think i'll go with the EDR1 then, it's available in a warehouse near me and i don't have enough time to order something that is only available in china.



Good call man. I know you'll be happy for the measly $4 cost. They tick all of the boxes you had listed.


----------



## Turbo AL

[QUOTE="rayliam80, post:  Maybe the ZS6 has a soft spot in my heart since they've given me more of a "wow" factor out of all the KZ I've tried despite their flaws. Between them, I feel like the ZS10 is the sort of IEM you could start to build a life around, dedicate more time to, and look towards having a long, healthy and positive relationship with. But the green ZS6, it's that contact in your phone, the IEM who you fantasize about when the ZS10 is beside you sleeping soundly in bed and you still long for the ZS6 even though you know it's probably never going to work, even though you know that it always leads to some sort of disagreement but there is something there that keeps drawing you back for more...[/QUOTE]

Dude, you need intervention.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Otto Motor said:


> The ED7 delivered a robust sound on their first outing. The largest included tips worked for me but I had to push them deep into my ear canals. These work fine in noisy environments.
> 
> The ED7 plots solid in the Hamburger field. It sounds darkish and full.
> 
> ...



Your version for zsr


Turbo AL said:


> [QUOTE="rayliam80, post:  Maybe the ZS6 has a soft spot in my heart since they've given me more of a "wow" factor out of all the KZ I've tried despite their flaws. Between them, I feel like the ZS10 is the sort of IEM you could start to build a life around, dedicate more time to, and look towards having a long, healthy and positive relationship with. But the green ZS6, it's that contact in your phone, the IEM who you fantasize about when the ZS10 is beside you sleeping soundly in bed and you still long for the ZS6 even though you know it's probably never going to work, even though you know that it always leads to some sort of disagreement but there is something there that keeps drawing you back for more...



Dude, you need intervention.[/QUOTE]
He really needs intervention


----------



## bsoplinger

Podster said:


> Well based on Otto's pics we can now just refer to these as your Fat Burg-Ears Or if you must stay within the KZ confines "Bamboo Warriors"…


Are you sure that you don't mean Bamboom Warriors?


----------



## Podster

bsoplinger said:


> Are you sure that you don't mean Bamboom Warriors?



No, these are KZ models like so many that do not require high volumes to drive and if you do you will sizzle those ear hairs right off at the root At lower volumes they have great detail and a nice solid bass but if you want ear blistering volume that is actually just what you are going to get! As soon as you start to crank these babies they are going to fry your ears with high pitch sizzle but at lower volumes they sound great across the spectrum For most of my devices it starts at about 60% volume and some more higher power rigs it's 45/50% and mind you I'm a treble lover compared to most


----------



## WalterTorino

If this information already been here, i'm sorry. But i found that KZ on theirs Ali-page have posted the teaser of a fully-ba model coming this july. 16 (!) BA, and a price about $80.
Mb i am a slowpoke... anyway, here it is:


----------



## Podster

Oh Walt, you big tease So is that going to be a single BA model for $80?


----------



## loomisjohnson

Podster said:


> Well based on Otto's pics we can now just refer to these as your Fat Burg-Ears Or if you must stay within the KZ confines "Bamboo Warriors"


i ended up giving my ed7 to the mailman (who dutifully delivers all my other iems)--they were a pleasant enough listen--airy with nice instrument placement-- but bass was kinda wobbly/diffuse and mids lacked some body. the build on mine was also pretty slipshod (they looked homemade), though the bamboo is an interesting touch


----------



## Podster

Yeah Loomis if you look close at my photo that blue left side is not dead center and the interior cut out is out of round but I don't think it really effects the sound, like I said where they go South is when you try and crank them which changes everything about their mid level power output and just destroy's how good they can sound. Even at mid volumes if the cut has add (I call it fattened and untrue) bass they also over ride the other frequencies like the bass added to CD to make car subs massage your butt Oh no, deed he just say that


----------



## rfsux

Podster said:


> Oh Walt, you big tease So is that going to be a single BA model for $80?



8 BA's per side. 16 BA's total.


----------



## Otto Motor

WalterTorino said:


> If this information already been here, i'm sorry. But i found that KZ on theirs Ali-page have posted the teaser of a fully-ba model coming this july. 16 (!) BA, and a price about $80.
> Mb i am a slowpoke... anyway, here it is:


16 BA drivers and still no midrange? Merci!


----------



## DeltaAudio

Based on previous leaks that new July KZ will be 16 driver per side.


FyreAudio said:


> You thought KZ was gonna stop at 10 drivers? Ha! New leak shows a kz earphone with 12 dtivers  https://twitter.com/hulang9078/status/986886555343011840/photo/1


----------



## DeltaAudio

And by the looks of the drivers in the model, they Finally made a new Balanced Armature for bass and mids


----------



## Podster (May 10, 2018)

Well I'm thinking 8 BA's per shell is going to be entering LZ territory because I'm sure KZ cannot build these for no $50 or hard to believe even $80! I may be wrong that's like one BA more than the Dippers right? All in all though $80 is at least 1/2 if not a third of what other multi Chi-Fi BA's go for and if they are built as well as the ZS6 KZ may really put the Big Hurt (Obviously a major league fan) on some of it's competitors and quite possibly move KZ into the next echelon of iem's


----------



## DSebastiao

Slater said:


> Good call man. I know you'll be happy for the measly $4 cost. They tick all of the boxes you had listed.



It's not for me but i've give them a listen for sure.

For me, i plan to get either the ZS6 or ZS10 in 1 month time or so, is there a concensous on the ZS10?


----------



## oneula

anyone use their ZS10s with the KZ bluetooth cable for the ZS3/4/5/6?


----------



## zazaboy

hi guys which is better kz zsr or kz es4.. which has better bass, soundstage and vocals thanks


----------



## 1clearhead

Has anyone here try the *KZ ED15*   ...I would like to hear some impressions on these.

Plus, I would like to know how it compares to the KZ ES4.


----------



## toddy0191

1clearhead said:


> Has anyone here try the *KZ ED15*   ...I would like to hear some impressions on these.
> 
> Plus, I would like to know how it compares to the KZ ES4.



Only @dhruvmeena96 has the ES4 so far.

I love the ED15s with foams on.  Massive bass, well controlled and goes very deep. Usual recessed mids but very detailed elevated highs. Big V with subwoofer bass, great for EDM

@B9Scrambler found them sibilant but they aren't to me so not sure if there is a QC issue going on.


----------



## Dickymint

Hello folks, lurker in your midst! Just splashed out and bought a pair of the KZ 10BA units, they sound great, when I can get them to stay in my ears! Try though I might, I cannot get them to stay in, I have a large range of ear buds, the biggest of which don't fit the nozzles, I have some long silicone bi-flanges, they fit but don't seal properly. I just find that the nozzles need to be about another 5 to 8 mm longer, does anyone else find this?


----------



## Otto Motor

toddy0191 said:


> Only @dhruvmeena96 has the ES4 so far.
> 
> I love the ED15s with foams on.  Massive bass, well controlled and goes very deep. Usual recessed mids but very detailed elevated highs. Big V with subwoofer bass, great for EDM
> 
> @B9Scrambler found them sibilant but they aren't to me so not sure if there is a QC issue going on.


The ED15 are sibilant...but not more so than the Focal Sphear or the Sennheiser in-ear Momentum.


----------



## Otto Motor

1clearhead said:


> Has anyone here try the *KZ ED15*   ...I would like to hear some impressions on these.
> 
> Plus, I would like to know how it compares to the KZ ES4.


See here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2080#post-14189556


----------



## toddy0191 (May 10, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> The ED15 are sibilant...but not more so than the Focal Sphear or the Sennheiser in-ear5 Momentum.



I've only listened with foams as can't use silicone tips due to them creating a vacuum like seal.  Maybe this takes the edge of the sibilance as sss and ttts are genuinely not troublesome for me with them.  Or I  may be I'm going deaf!

Just noticed:

"*Sibilance:* None!" 

From your initial impressions!


----------



## Podster

Dickymint said:


> Hello folks, lurker in your midst! Just splashed out and bought a pair of the KZ 10BA units, they sound great, when I can get them to stay in my ears! Try though I might, I cannot get them to stay in, I have a large range of ear buds, the biggest of which don't fit the nozzles, I have some long silicone bi-flanges, they fit but don't seal properly. I just find that the nozzles need to be about another 5 to 8 mm longer, does anyone else find this?



I'm just thinking here everyone is wondering where you got a 10BA KZ since latest tease was announcing an 8BA model Which ones are these and splash us some photo's I'm sure Slater can give you some tip mods that may help those babies stay in


----------



## manukmanohar

I'm assuming he meant KZ ZS10, 10 driver, not 10 BA unit. I have had similar problems with the ZS10 sticking out, and it being not very comfortable when listening for a long time. But I am able to get good seal.


----------



## Zerohour88

with the advent of another multi-BA unit, maybe a PSA should be made that people should focus on the price of the model itself rather than the number of drivers. Though I'm sure it'll fall on deaf ears.

My first thought is that 80 bux seems a bit much for a KZ, but with so many other models releasing that would most likely be cheaper (not to mention other non-KZ models), not really an issue anymore. 80 bux is dangerously close to the IT01.

who here have used the KZ ZS5/ZS6 with a Sabaj DAC? the DA3 looks mighty tempting, though if the impedance might be an issue, I'd settle with the DA2.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I'm just thinking here everyone is wondering where you got a 10BA KZ since latest tease was announcing an 8BA model Which ones are these and splash us some photo's I'm sure Slater can give you some tip mods that may help those babies stay in



I don't have the ZS10, but for IEMs that wouldn't stay put (like the ZSE) I always get 1 of the following methods to work every time:

Foam tips
Silicone double/triple flange tips
DIY foam silicone (DIY Symbio Mandarins)
Bump up to the next larger tips size


----------



## Aparker2005

Geeze now I'm amped up to see these 16 driver ears. Very ,very interesting


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 10, 2018)

Just got the KZ10s from Ali today. First impressions are pretty good. Wide and spacious. Lots of low end rumble. Sub bass is quite good. Treble is fine for me. Sounds a bit dark to me, but I like it. No sibilance at all. Mids are a bit off. Male vocs sound thin and scratchy. Not a deal breaker at all though. Eq helps a bit. Things excel at EDM and modern hip hop/trap stuff. I personally find them quite comfortable and the stock tips made a nice seal and were fine. Have a ton of tips but loathe tip rolling. Anybody have some recommendations?

Also got the EDR1 sent to me free for buying the KZ10s, but have not opened yet. been wearing the 10's all night.

Listened to Belly, Hellecopters, Bad Religion, Awolnation, 12 girls band, Chronixx, Rebelution, Apathy, Blackalicious, Stevie Stone, and Silkie through Cayin N5 and Sony NW-A45.

I like these much better then the ZST's.


----------



## Otto Motor

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2080#post-14189556


toddy0191 said:


> I've only listened with foams as can't use silicone tips due to them creating a vacuum like seal.  Maybe this takes the edge of the sibilance as sss and ttts are genuinely not troublesome for me with them.  Or I  may be I'm going deaf!
> 
> Just noticed:
> 
> ...



That's why it was the initial impression - there was none in the music used. I then checked borderline recordings with the ED15, Focal Sphear, the Senns, and the ZS10...and the ZS10 was the smoothest. The ED15 does not hide poor recording quality. There is real sibilance in the now forbidden UES and the ZSR.

You can read between the lines: degree of sibilance is not any different from acclaimed brandname earphones.


----------



## Otto Motor

KZ ZS10 on massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kz-zs10-iem


----------



## WildSeven

Otto Motor said:


> KZ ZS10 on massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kz-zs10-iem


Is a disaster to buy anything from Massdrop unless is exclusive Massdrop made. Custom and Tax usually kills the deal, in this case, it will be best to get from Ali.
Don't see any saving in this drop when you are waiting a month for them to ship.


----------



## Otto Motor

WildSeven said:


> Is a disaster to buy anything from Massdrop unless is exclusive Massdrop made. Custom and Tax usually kills the deal, in this case, it will be best to get from Ali.
> Don't see any saving in this drop when you are waiting a month for them to ship.


Hmmm...massdrop didn't charge any Canadian taxes or imports fees on my $179 UE900S or the $25 Koss KPH30i. But yes,  $42 is too high, considering it only ships on 11 June. I got mine for $33 within 15 days from China. Massdrop relies entirely on the phonograph's review in their appraisal which is questionable at best.


----------



## DocHoliday

A quick word to KZ Acoustics:

Thank you for offering the new braided cables on your current models.



 

The new cables have a decent "Y" restraint....


 

..... but your older "Y" restraint is a better design. 


 


Other manufacturers seem to gravitate toward the design you have employed for years; 


 

Might be a good idea to keep your original design because it is very durable, more pliable and less cumbersome when coiling/winding the cable for storage. 

It's great that the cables come in bronze, copper, silver-plated and yellow.


 


 

Please consider offering them in all black (cable, restraints and 3.5mm jacks) like the TRN cable below because most of my silver-plated KZ cables have severe discoloration. 


 



 
Thank you

DocHolliday


----------



## 424358

Man, the BA only suspected ones look like a must have. I’ll get them as a birthday gift to myself in July.

I love my KZ ZS6. Is the ZS10 worth getting if I love the ZS6 sound signature?

I want to collect KZ as well but don’t have enough money right now.


----------



## Wiljen

I may skip the next one.  I am not in love with the Zs10 and think the "How many drivers can we cram in your ear" model of earphone development has taken over at KZ.   I would much rather see a back to basics movement where they take an existing design and tweak it to make a really solid offering.  I think they have the materials from the Zs5v1 to start from.   Using those drivers and really working with the tuning and then placing them in a slightly smaller case (preferably metal and not a stolen Campfire design) would be a much more worthwhile pursuit than continuing to see how many we can get to fit in.   The Zs10 is already too big, I can only imagine the Zs16 is going to be the size of an on-ear with a nozzle sticking out of it.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> A quick word to KZ Acoustics:
> 
> Thank you for offering the new braided cables on your current models.
> 
> ...



I'm with you on this one Doc and my TFZ Series 1s cable is still not as green as your tri-braid!!! The bronze is my fave for sure and I love the length and pliability of this one


----------



## Dickymint

Podster said:


> I'm just thinking here everyone is wondering where you got a 10BA KZ since latest tease was announcing an 8BA model Which ones are these and splash us some photo's I'm sure Slater can give you some tip mods that may help those babies stay in


My apologies, getting old, can't remember the name of the headphones and yes, the ZS10 jobby!


----------



## Podster

What threw me was the 10BA as I was thinking the ZS10 is 1 DD and 4 BA per side? To tell the truth I've not even looked into the thing as it's butt ugly and looks far to large for my ears, not saying I can't change my mind but no one has really swayed me as of yet


----------



## Dickymint

One other thing I personally would like changing is the memory plastic at the end of the connectors, they drive me nuts! Not far to drive either...


----------



## Podster

Dickymint said:


> One other thing I personally would like changing is the memory plastic at the end of the connectors, they drive me nuts! Not far to drive either...



Same here on both accounts! I generally surgically remove my ear wires and shrink wrap


----------



## Otto Motor (May 11, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I may skip the next one.  I am not in love with the Zs10 and think the "How many drivers can we cram in your ear" model of earphone development has taken over at KZ.   I would much rather see a back to basics movement where they take an existing design and tweak it to make a really solid offering.  I think they have the materials from the Zs5v1 to start from.   Using those drivers and really working with the tuning and then placing them in a slightly smaller case (preferably metal and not a stolen Campfire design) would be a much more worthwhile pursuit than continuing to see how many we can get to fit in.   The Zs10 is already too big, I can only imagine the Zs16 is going to be the size of an on-ear with a nozzle sticking out of it.


I had said a while ago I wanted to skip the the ZS10 - and then caved in again. When the ZS10 were announced, Coil speculated they would be at around $30 and I put them at $80. As a trend, KZ earphones have become more expensive with every driver added. Gone are the $5 days...at least of new models. Now we are actually heading towards the $80 region.

And that's how it always appears to go:

1. KZ, often through the phonograph, announce a new model.
2. There is lots of talk and speculation on discussion lists without any knowledge about them.
3. This generates a hype.
4. Sellers run a pre-sale at really good prices.
5. People like me get sucked in.
6. IEM is officially released at a substantially higher price than pre-sale.
7. Early adopters rave about the new iem or they don't...both typically happens.
8. The hype dies down.
9. Some anniversary sale gives the cost conscious a second chance to get a good price.
10. The next model is announced...hype, speculation etc. set in once again.
11. "Old" model price drops by 30% permanently, three months after its release.
12. Presale and sale of the latest model, "old" model added to the drawer with the other 15 KZ hybrids.
13. etc. etc.


----------



## 1clearhead

Otto Motor said:


> See here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2080#post-14189556


Thanks for the info...


----------



## 1clearhead

toddy0191 said:


> Only @dhruvmeena96 has the ES4 so far.
> 
> I love the ED15s with foams on.  Massive bass, well controlled and goes very deep. Usual recessed mids but very detailed elevated highs. Big V with subwoofer bass, great for EDM
> 
> @B9Scrambler found them sibilant but they aren't to me so not sure if there is a QC issue going on.


Thanks...


----------



## loomisjohnson (May 11, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I had said a while ago I wanted to skip the the ZS10 - and then caved in again. When the ZS10 were announced, Coil speculated they would be at around $30 and I put them at $80. As a trend, KZ earphones have become more expensive with every driver added. Gone are the $5 days...at least of new models. Now we are actually heading towards the $80 region.
> 
> And that's how it always appears to go:
> 
> ...


there's inevitably a challenge when a purveyor of budget products--whether it's kz, hyundai or mcdonald's--tries to go upscale. obviously, there's lack of luxury brand cachet (consumers balk at paying the same for a hyundai as they willingly pay for a lexus); more fundamentally the lower-end guys don't have the same tradition of qc and r & d (i.e. sennheisers may be overpriced for their intrinsic quality but are impeccably made). so, per otto i'm a huge fan of kz's downmarket ($5-10) offerings, while my enthusiasm for their more ambitious/pricier designs is decidely more muted.


----------



## Wiljen

Otto Motor said:


> I had said a while ago I wanted to skip the the ZS10 - and then caved in again. When the ZS10 were announced, Coil speculated they would be at around $30 and I put them at $80. As a trend, KZ earphones have become more expensive with every driver added. Gone are the $5 days...at least of new models. Now we are actually heading towards the $80 region.
> 
> And that's how it always appears to go:
> 
> ...



I think I am going to get off the hamster wheel and just have Eartech make me a nice Ciem that I can be happy with without chasing the impossible dream.  Maybe I'll photo-document the process for a review since they are close by.


----------



## Otto Motor

Wiljen said:


> I think I am going to get off the hamster wheel and just have Eartech make me a nice Ciem that I can be happy with without chasing the impossible dream.  Maybe I'll photo-document the process for a review since they are close by.


Or you get the banned but nevertheless outstanding UES from the banned seller...promoted by loomis and myself.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 11, 2018)

Just saw these yesterday and they are super crazy low priced! I ordered a pair of them in "white" and "black":

*KZ HD9*

The price is just ridiculously low at the sale price of around $4.50 US Dollars! 



 

 

 



If you're interested in checking them out some more, below are three links...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...dd1f-4cd6-825a-08d6c008d4b0&priceBeautifyAB=0

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ac2c-45fe-abe4-1dd1b92069ea&priceBeautifyAB=0

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ac2c-45fe-abe4-1dd1b92069ea&priceBeautifyAB=0


-Clear


----------



## DocHoliday

loomisjohnson said:


> there's inevitably a challenge when a purveyor of budget products--whether it's kz, hyundai or mcdonald's--tries to go upscale. obviously, there's lack of luxury brand cachet (consumers balk at paying the same for a hyundai as they willingly pay for a lexus); more fundamentally the lower-end guys don't have the same tradition of qc and r & d (i.e. sennheisers may be overpriced for their intrinsic quality but are impeccably made). so, per otto i'm a huge fan of kz's downmarket ($5-10) offerings, while my enthusiasm for their more ambitious/pricier designs is decidely more muted.



Case in point:


----------



## SciOC

Wiljen said:


> I may skip the next one.  I am not in love with the Zs10 and think the "How many drivers can we cram in your ear" model of earphone development has taken over at KZ.   I would much rather see a back to basics movement where they take an existing design and tweak it to make a really solid offering.  I think they have the materials from the Zs5v1 to start from.   Using those drivers and really working with the tuning and then placing them in a slightly smaller case (preferably metal and not a stolen Campfire design) would be a much more worthwhile pursuit than continuing to see how many we can get to fit in.   The Zs10 is already too big, I can only imagine the Zs16 is going to be the size of an on-ear with a nozzle sticking out of it.


alternatively I'm VERY interested in the 8 BA model.    Because it lacks the DD it shouldn't be bigger than the zs10.  Staging and separation should be really really really good for under $100.  Let's just hope they tune it better and don't botch the low end with only BA.  Most 8 BA models start around $600, just the idea of them applying downward pressure on prices, if they're decent, will be good for everyone.

And honestly there is a lot of empty space in the zs10 that either had to do with ease of manufacturing or air for the DD.  8 BA could literally be half the size of the zs10 if designed well.


----------



## loomisjohnson

DocHoliday said:


> Case in point:


very good analogy--i believe that's the phaeton (my wife used to sell vws). helluva nice car, with the same engine as the audi v8, but it  sold virtually not at all in the states before they killed the model--noone would pay >$70k for a vw but eagerly paid more for the comparably-spec'd luxury brands.


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Has anyone here try the *KZ ED15*   ...I would like to hear some impressions on these.
> 
> Plus, I would like to know how it compares to the KZ ES4.





loomisjohnson said:


> very good analogy--i believe that's the phaeton (my wife used to sell vws). helluva nice car, with the same engine as the audi v8, but it  sold virtually not at all in the states before they killed the model--noone would pay >$70k for a vw but eagerly paid more for the comparably-spec'd luxury brands.



There was also a W12 version which was pretty nuts.


----------



## Zerohour88

Wiljen said:


> I may skip the next one.  I am not in love with the Zs10 and think the "How many drivers can we cram in your ear" model of earphone development has taken over at KZ.   I would much rather see a back to basics movement where they take an existing design and tweak it to make a really solid offering.  I think they have the materials from the Zs5v1 to start from.   Using those drivers and really working with the tuning and then placing them in a slightly smaller case (preferably metal and not a stolen Campfire design) would be a much more worthwhile pursuit than continuing to see how many we can get to fit in.   The Zs10 is already too big, I can only imagine the Zs16 is going to be the size of an on-ear with a nozzle sticking out of it.



had a similar discussion with a like-minded friend. 

My thought of train is that they've reached the limit of tuning the BA or DD directly (since I think they don't really produce any of it themselves? or at least not all of them). They might not have the capacity to go further that route (not exactly a summit-fi company)

Tuning via the shell (vents, shape, etc) would be tricky since you never know what you can get (a pretty design might not sound good)

basically, get as much driver as you can into one shell and then tune it bit by bit (having more driver means things/variables to change that are simpler, via crossovers/resistors/switches). Quite a post-grad student way of doing thing, lol

Honestly though, I'm pretty sure some are just miffed that they can't insta-buy $10 KZ IEM released every year that offers an upgrade.


----------



## SciOC (May 11, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> very good analogy--i believe that's the phaeton (my wife used to sell vws). helluva nice car, with the same engine as the audi v8, but it  sold virtually not at all in the states before they killed the model--noone would pay >$70k for a vw but eagerly paid more for the comparably-spec'd luxury brands.


There's more snobbery involved with that though.   80% of the general population is going to recognize a BMW, Lexus or Mercedes as a fancy car, but not understand a hyundai Genesis or Kia k900 is just as nice. 

I could walk around all day with a pair of  CA Andromeda in and not have anyone look twice at them or know what they are or how much I paid.  It's not quite as relevant to most of us, and as the real enthusiast level group, I could honestly care less about brand, 8ba per side for 80 dollars is something I just have got to hear.

The other point is that these are 80 dollars, not $80,000.  It's not going to break the bank to collect them.  I have lots of gear of different prices, most people typically only own 1 car at a time.   At these prices a lot more of us can act like really rich people do with cars and just collect them.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Case in point:



That the VW Pheaton Doc? VW's 12 Cyl. $120K Wonder Wagon that you can now pick up second hand for as little as $10K! I'd love to have one myself as a VW fan (of course after the Diesel Scam wife absolutely hates them) I still love VW but after owning 4 GTi's since there inception and now in the wife's favored Outback I miss my Pocket Rocket My last one 2008 was a scorcher



 

'83 Rabbit GTi, '88 16V, '95 and '08



 

OK, back on track


----------



## Zerohour88

SciOC said:


> There's more snobbery involved with that though.   80% of the general population is going to recognize a BMW, Lexus or Mercedes as a fancy car, but not understand a hyundai Genesis or Kia k900 is just as nice.
> 
> I could walk around all day with a pair of  CA Andromeda in and not have anyone look twice at them or know what they are or how much I paid.  It's not quite as relevant to most of us, and as the real enthusiast level group, I could honestly care less about brand, 8ba per side for 80 dollars is something I just have got to hear.



more like people who owns Andromeda might get miffed if someone mistook it for a ZS5/ZS6 

continuing the car analogy, reminded me when the Mitsubishi Lancer got rebranded by our national car maker, Lancer owners were furious when people went "ooh, nice Lancer convert brooo!!" as a joke.


----------



## SciOC

Zerohour88 said:


> more like people who owns Andromeda might get miffed if someone mistook it for a ZS5/ZS6
> 
> continuing the car analogy, reminded me when the Mitsubishi Lancer got rebranded by our national car maker, Lancer owners were furious when people went "ooh, nice Lancer convert brooo!!" as a joke.


Yeah, but honestly, F those people.   

I've said it before, they could be called the kz tinypenis002 and be bright pink for all I care, if they attract me from a technical standpoint and physically fit my ears, I'm going to listen to them...


----------



## loomisjohnson

SciOC said:


> There's more snobbery involved with that though.   80% of the general population is going to recognize a BMW, Lexus or Mercedes as a fancy car, but not understand a hyundai Genesis or Kia k900 is just as nice.
> 
> I could walk around all day with a pair of  CA Andromeda in and not have anyone look twice at them or know what they are or how much I paid.  It's not quite as relevant to most of us, and as the real enthusiast level group, I could honestly care less about brand, 8ba per side for 80 dollars is something I just have got to hear.
> 
> The other point is that these are 80 dollars, not $80,000.  It's not going to break the bank to collect them.  I have lots of gear of different prices, most people typically only own 1 car at a time.   At these prices a lot more of us can act like really rich people do with cars and just collect them.


actually i owned a genesis, having owned an ls400 before that. the genesis was perfectly okay, but (snoberry aside) it wasn't as tight and good as the lexus, which was built by fanatics--my sense is toyota had a much longer path to perfection. so (to segue back to relevance) you have kz cranking out models which are in many cases interesting and viable, but aren't as fully realized or carefully made as their more venerable competitors'. i do observe, however, that at least some of these chifi upstarts (dzat being a good example) really do seem obsessive about quality.


----------



## SciOC (May 11, 2018)

It's funny you say that because I've always felt Toyota/Lexus to be a complete ripoff that lags way behind the competition in tech/interior quality/comfort...

I think the scale is also worth noting here, at best a Hyundai Genesis runs 75-80% of the cost of a Lexus/BMW.  However, similar kz models can run only 10-25% of "comparable" models....  So you could still own your Lexus, and just test out the kz for cheap because why not?  I'm going to buy the ibasso it04 for 500 dollars as soon as it's released (4ba+1dd) but I couldn't pass up the 4ba+1dd of the zs10 for $45 dollars.  It's worth it just to demo the tech it anything, even if it's not the most polished thing on the planet.  

That being said, I completely get why people are a bit bummed that there's not a next gen ZSR type performer, but frankly, the really good ones like the zsr might be more flukey than the mediocre stuff given how kz operates.


----------



## rayliam80

misterchao said:


> Man, the BA only suspected ones look like a must have. I’ll get them as a birthday gift to myself in July.
> 
> I love my KZ ZS6. Is the ZS10 worth getting if I love the ZS6 sound signature?
> 
> I want to collect KZ as well but don’t have enough money right now.



If you love the ZS6 you'll be disappointed with the ZS10. It's not as treble heavy. Darker sounding but I'd say better imaging when it comes to the vocals. It's missing some of the micro details too.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I think I am going to get off the hamster wheel and just have Eartech make me a nice Ciem that I can be happy with without chasing the impossible dream.  Maybe I'll photo-document the process for a review since they are close by.



Keep in mind your ear changes in size as you age, so a CEIM isn't a perfect 'end game' solution.

Make sure the CEIM manufacturers will adjust the CEIM fit down the road (preferably for n/c).


----------



## Podster

Diggin' these ZSR's balanced out of my Opy#1


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Keep in mind your ear changes in size as you age, so a CEIM isn't a perfect 'end game' solution.
> 
> Make sure the CEIM manufacturers will adjust the CEIM fit down the road (preferably for n/c).



Two questions, How old do you think I am and how long do you expect I'll live?  Honestly  I suspect one pair will make it the rest of my days.


----------



## raccoon city

What silicone tips fit the KZ ATE-S and are actually any good?


----------



## Wiljen

raccoon city said:


> What silicone tips fit the KZ ATE-S and are actually any good?



A.) Yes, provided they are the right size
B.) Completely subjective  - Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Podster

Wiljen said:


> Two questions, How old do you think I am and how long do you expect I'll live?  Honestly  I suspect one pair will make it the rest of my days.



Well I'm 61 by the calendar, 16 in my mind but my joints have me pegged at about 88


----------



## DocHoliday (May 11, 2018)

Podster said:


> That the VW Pheaton Doc? VW's 12 Cyl. $120K Wonder Wagon that you can now pick up second hand for as little as $10K! I'd love to have one myself as a VW fan (of course after the Diesel Scam wife absolutely hates them) I still love VW but after owning 4 GTi's since there inception and now in the wife's favored Outback I miss my Pocket Rocket My last one 2008 was a scorcher
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I went to the dealership three times and came so close to buying a Phaeton. 

What stopped me? 

I knew that sales were going to be limited and even fewer people would get the W12 which meant that repairs were going to be a niche market. In the world of auto repairs "niche" means very expensive because mechanics know that you have no other options. In addition, the Phaeton had no track record (read that as a crap shoot). Just couldn't pull the trigger. It was a beauty and it purred like a big cat that just filled its belly with fresh antelope but the W12 Phaeton weighs 5400 lbs. The 12 cylinder engine and all-wheel drive were a nice touch but the aluminum Audi A8 came in at 1,000 lbs lighter. The difference is huge. You'd have to carry the equivalent of FIVE grown men in the Audi "ALL THE TIME" to achieve the same weight as the Phaeton.

Anyway, the thing with KZ is that you get more than your money's worth most of the time and they do listen to us (it's in their best interest to read this thread on an hourly basis). Much of the gear they've released in 2014 - 2016 was great fun to collect and listen to and the ZS6 and ZSR are ridiculously good for the asking price so let's just see which KZ model will "wow" us next. 

I'd still like to see some progress in the single dynamic driver area. If the ES4 has a graphene DD then maybe we'll get the improvements we've all been hoping for.


----------



## raccoon city

Wiljen said:


> A.) Yes, provided they are the right size
> B.) Completely subjective - Your mileage may vary.


Yes, I am aware of both of those points.
I'm looking for recommendations.


----------



## Wiljen

raccoon city said:


> Yes, I am aware of both of those points.
> I'm looking for recommendations.



I'd stick with the Kz Star lines -  they can be bought in bulk for next to nothing and work about as well as anything.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Tried a few more expensive iems and was planning on buying a high end (totl) pair but not sure since I'm so happy with KZ. In the end i perfered KZ by far agianst the few  more expensive units. Not sure how much better it gets I'm sure some, but not 1000s of bucks better even compared to my full-size cans.


----------



## RolledOff

FiGuY1017 said:


> Tried a few more expensive iems and was planning on buying a high end (totl) pair but not sure since I'm so happy with KZ. In the end i perfered KZ by far agianst the few  more expensive units. Not sure how much better it gets I'm sure some, but not 1000s of bucks better even compared to my full-size cans.



I have several KZ iems, i find them good, but there are other iem in that price range like TinAudio T2, Fen2000, Uiisii CM5, TRN V20 which are awesome.


----------



## FiGuY1017 (May 11, 2018)

Dlt


----------



## FiGuY1017

RolledOff said:


> I have several KZ iems, i find them good, but there are other iem in that price range like TinAudio T2, Fen2000, Uiisii CM5, TRN V20 which are awesome.


 As far as fun sounding goes I'm all about bang for buck. So I'll have to check those out


----------



## pbui44

Uh oh, the KZ ZS6 green ones already came in and one is left!  Better get it:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075D96MJJ?tag=3340693-headfi-20&th=1&psc=1


----------



## Slater (May 11, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Two questions, How old do you think I am and how long do you expect I'll live?  Honestly  I suspect one pair will make it the rest of my days.



haha, I was just saying that CEIMs do have their issues as well.

I seem to remember you are in your mid 60s if my memory serves me correctly.




raccoon city said:


> What silicone tips fit the KZ ATE-S and are actually any good?



Wide bore Turbo/Whirlwinds work great for ATE, ATE-S, and ATR. The Tennmak version are more robust than the KZ version, but both would work in a pinch.

The key is pushing them all the way down so the nozzle is level with the top of the tip. Like this:


----------



## rayliam80

pbui44 said:


> Uh oh, the KZ ZS6 green ones already came in and one is left!  Better get it:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075D96MJJ?tag=3340693-headfi-20&th=1&psc=1



When I saw the green ones on Amazon a few months ago they went fairly quickly too. I'm not surprised. I ended up ordering them from AE/NiceHCK.


----------



## zazaboy

Guys can we conclude that the best KZ iem the KZ es4 is ATM .. and better is then KZ zs6 KZ zs10 and KZ zsr ... what do you think guys... and other users who has KZ es4 what do you think..


----------



## Makahl

zazaboy said:


> Guys can we conclude that the best KZ iem the KZ es4 is ATM .. and better is then KZ zs6 KZ zs10 and KZ zsr ... what do you think guys... and other users who has KZ es4 what do you think..




You'll get better answers in some weeks when more people will receive their pair and get the time to evaluate their opinion. At the moment only 1 guy on this thread got the ES4 so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## snip3r77

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, I went to the dealership three times and came so close to buying a Phaeton.
> 
> What stopped me?
> 
> ...



Monkey see, monkey does.
Jumping on the graphene bandwagon of course no tuning included


----------



## hiflofi

Having an odd issue with my ZS6 recently. Tips are slipping off very easily. Basically impossible to keep on the nozzle.


----------



## WildSeven

clean your tip and the nozzle with damp cotton cloth, remove any "oil" and it should not slip off easily.


----------



## Slater

hiflofi said:


> Having an odd issue with my ZS6 recently. Tips are slipping off very easily. Basically impossible to keep on the nozzle.





WildSeven said:


> clean your tip and the nozzle with damp cotton cloth, remove any "oil" and it should not slip off easily.



Also, once it is cleaned with alcohol to remove any oils (and dry), dampen a qtip (cotton swab) with some hairspray. Then slightly dampen the nozzle, and slip the tips on. Then let air dry for an hour or 2.

Old BMX trick to keep handgrips from popping off of handle bars


----------



## hiflofi

WildSeven said:


> clean your tip and the nozzle with damp cotton cloth, remove any "oil" and it should not slip off easily.


OK will try this!


----------



## WildSeven

Never used hairspray that way, any residue? I'd rather clean regularly then leaving sticky stuff behind.


----------



## DocHoliday

snip3r77 said:


> Monkey see, monkey does.
> Jumping on the graphene bandwagon of course no tuning included



?????


----------



## Slater

WildSeven said:


> Never used hairspray that way, any residue? I'd rather clean regularly then leaving sticky stuff behind.



We've been doing it to bikes for 40 years now with no issues.


----------



## khighly

KZ should match colors on the pcb's. Red pcb on transparent black doesn't look good. Black pcb with black shell would look much better.


----------



## Slater (May 12, 2018)

khighly said:


> KZ should match colors on the pcb's. Red pcb on transparent black doesn't look good. Black pcb with black shell would look much better.



Black PCB would have looked good with all of the colors, not just the black shell.

Like you said, the red doesn't look good, especially with the red and green shells.


----------



## mikp

been trying the zs3 and trn BT cable, and very surprised by the fit and comfort. The zs3 seems like molded to my ears and much more comfortable than all my other BT Earbuds. Also the cable hugs the neck so nothing pulling on the buds.
Why have I not tried this before?

Now have to replace another set, so is there another "affordable" alternative to zs3 that has the same shape that fits the trn cables (2 pin or mmcx)?


----------



## toddy0191

snip3r77 said:


> Monkey see, monkey does.
> Jumping on the graphene bandwagon of course no tuning included



Did KZ steal your girlfriend?

There are a lot of intelligent,  articulate and knowledgeable people on this thread.

Your constant snip(3r77)ing comes across as both arrogant and insulting.

If you hate KZ that much that you are unable to be objective,  leave the thread.


----------



## 424358

Bought the KZ ES4 on Ali. Now how long till it ships?

I think any KZ under $20 is a good deal. If the impressions of them on here hold true. I won’t  need my ZSTs(I got the for free so might give them to a friend).

Hopefully I can trade my TFZ 5s for ZS10s


----------



## snip3r77 (May 12, 2018)

.


----------



## Spanish deaf guy (May 12, 2018)

Hi guys is there any problem if the vent holes on the zs5 are uneven? Left one is bigger than right one on mine.

Another user told me that after asking, he realized vent holes in his unit were different too but he never heared any problem.

I don't hear any uneven eq  or balance problem, but who knows. What do you guys think?






Heree you can see they are not equal.

Looking at them I don't even think they are vents since they look blocked by a metal ( or at least by a metal coloured one) piece.

What kind of influence have these on sound? Blocked them with tape and didn't hear much of a difference lol


----------



## snip3r77

Spanish deaf guy said:


> Hi guys is there any problem if the vent holes on the zs5 are uneven? Left one is bigger than right one on mine.
> 
> Another user told me that after asking, he realized vent holes in his unit were different too but he never heared any problem.
> 
> ...


I think it should be ok if you don't find any difference with it.


----------



## Dickymint

Spanish deaf guy said:


> Hi guys is there any problem if the vent holes on the zs5 are uneven? Left one is bigger than right one on mine.
> 
> Another user told me that after asking, he realized vent holes in his unit were different too but he never heared any problem.
> 
> ...


 Nice cable, which one is that? Surely not from KZ?


----------



## Spanish deaf guy (May 12, 2018)

Dickymint said:


> Nice cable, which one is that? Surely not from KZ?



It is kz indeed, the brand is engraved in the plastic piece where the cable split.

You can buy it on aliexpress

I would share a link but i doubt it is allowed lol


----------



## snip3r77

Spanish deaf guy said:


> It is kz indeed, the brand is engraved in the plastic piece where the cable split.
> 
> You can buy it on aliexpress
> 
> I would share a link but i doubt it is allowed lol



Yeah kZ makes the most value for money cable and the SQ is just damn good.


----------



## Spanish deaf guy

The silver cable just have  a better Channel separation, it is all I noticed, and maybe a little more clarity, but just by how sturdy it is...a must have for sure.


----------



## Bartig (May 12, 2018)

Just bought the KZ ES4. Why? Why not?


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## DocHoliday (May 12, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Did KZ steal your girlfriend?
> 
> There are a lot of intelligent,  articulate and knowledgeable people on this thread.
> 
> ...




He's not potty trained yet.....and our thread is his toilet.





When he feels pressure he'll defecate on cue. He's used to the stench but the rest of us should ignore his presence while we reach for the disinfectant.


----------



## groucho69

snip3r77 said:


> .



Well said


----------



## Otto Motor (May 12, 2018)

Spanish deaf guy said:


> The silver cable just have  a better Channel separation, it is all I noticed, and maybe a little more clarity, but just by how sturdy it is...a must have for sure.


There is zero difference in terms of channel separation and clarity between the stock cable and this silver cable. I have both. Why should there be? Because the "silver" cable looks better? The FR curve could shift with different cable resistance [counts toward the output impedance], but this would not be the case in most single-driver earphones and also not in the ZS5.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853

As to the vent hole: just partially fill the bigger hole with blue tack or something like that - use a thin needle. Test the channels by listening to a mono recording.


----------



## Bartig

Took my new bike for a ride. It’s as good as a daily commute as the KZ ZSR I listened during the trip. I don’t think I have any other earphone that has so little wind noise during walking, running or biking. 

<3 ZSR.


----------



## basshead11

Finally my zs10 arrived! After reading this thread i understand zs10 Will provide decent SQ but no outstanding. my expectations were low.  Well, here i am. After 1 or 2 hours of brain burn in i think this iem worth every penny.  Only with 2 hours of listening I can say its clearly a upgrade from my kz zs5 v1. Ill test them more to confirm more perceptions about this gem.


----------



## skajohyros

Bartig said:


> Took my new bike for a ride. It’s as good as a daily commute as the KZ ZSR I listened during the trip. I don’t think I have any other earphone that has so little wind noise during walking, running or biking.
> 
> <3 ZSR.



Any brakes?


----------



## riffrafff

DocHoliday said:


> When he feels pressure he'll defecate on cue. He's used to the stench but the rest of us should ignore his presence while we reach for the disinfectant.



I see you chose the shorter, more inoffensive version of that gif.   LOL.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 12, 2018)

The phonograph's hype generation for the 16-driver earphone - quantity over quality again? At $$80 too risky an experiment for me. The phonograph are a bunch of cheeseballs hidden between ads, sorry.


----------



## Zerohour88

Otto Motor said:


> The phonograph's hype generation for the 16-driver earphone - quantity over quality again? At $$80 too risky an experiment for me. The phonograph are a bunch of cheeseballs hidden between ads, sorry.



I consider them as a fluff piece, other than for announcement, specs and pics, I don't know why people even trust most of what they say. 

an $80 8BA IEM, I'd be intrigued if I hadn't tested a $100 DIY SK846 that quite possibly matches the SE846 in sound sig


----------



## loomisjohnson

Zerohour88 said:


> I consider them as a fluff piece, other than for announcement, specs and pics, I don't know why people even trust most of what they say.
> 
> an $80 8BA IEM, I'd be intrigued if I hadn't tested a $100 DIY SK846 that quite possibly matches the SE846 in sound sig


which diy is that zero?


----------



## TheVortex

loomisjohnson said:


> which diy is that zero?



A variety of shops on AliExpress sell a clone of the Shure SE846


----------



## zazaboy (May 12, 2018)

-


----------



## groucho69

zazaboy said:


> -



I agree


----------



## Superluc

phower said:


> I said that I will wait for YZ35. KZ has finally released it as ZSA. Another hype train beginning. choo choo.
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsa-officially-announced-news/


Look like a more rounded ZS6, so let's hope in a more rounded tuning


----------



## 424358

ES4 and ZSA are both dual hybrid drivers?


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> which diy is that zero?



as other have stated, yeah, not really elaborating as despite the renamed convention, still technically a copy.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (May 14, 2018)

I love when you have a chance to introduce a fellow music lover to good headphones. Earlier today I let my boss listen to my ZS5....this happened in the span of less than a minute after putting the music on:
WHOA!......how much were they.....can you get me some??


----------



## handwander

ZSA shell looks nice but 16 BAs? Starting to feel like the 2000s era megapixel wars.


----------



## Slater (May 12, 2018)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I love when you have a chance to introduce a fellow music lover to good headphones. Earlier today I let my boss listen to my ZS5....this happened in the span of less than a minute after putting the music on:
> WHOA!......how much were they.....can you get me some??



v1 or v2?

If they are v1, I would say "they are so rare and hard to get, that I will get you a pair but you will need to reciprocate with a promotion or raise" LOL


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> v1 or v2?
> 
> If they are v1, I would say "they are so rare and hard to get, that I will get you a pair but you will need to reciprocate with a promotion or raise" LOL


v2. with foam tips...I'm a simple man, with simple tastes


----------



## Dickymint

Last year I splashed out and bought the KZ ZS6 on what I read in some of the forums and to be truthful, I was and still am impressed. Recently I bought the ZS10 and I see on here a lot of people bashing this IEM but from my point of view, this is a very capable headphone at an amazing price that sounds much better than a few I have purchased at ten times the price, so from my point of view, Thank You KZ for building such a nice IEM at a staggering price. Those of you who are nice and young, can most likely hear all the high frequency screeching ETC but one as me, getting on a bit and having spent too much of my life with my head under car bonnets, it sounds wonderful, detailed and just right!
For a larf, I also bought QKZ VK1, another good sounding IEM but not quite the class act of the ZS10, IMHO... Enjoy what you have, it's too easy to lose sight of life.


----------



## HungryPanda

I agree Dickymint I have earphone and headphones from crazy low prices to quite expensive ones. I have probable found a couple of lemons but most need correct tips (for me) and the musical enjoyment I get from them all just makes me happy. Unless I'm listening to some real angry stuff


----------



## mono-type (May 13, 2018)

I just want to ask something. Does balanced armatures get damaged by very loud volumes? I'm not sure, but I hope I didn't damaged my ZSR. While I'm using it on an Xduoo X3, I didn't noticed that the X3 had its volume maxxed out; I immediately pulled my ZSR out after playing loud music for about 3 seconds. I'm worried that it might've broke the BA's of my ZSR. The ZSR still works, BTW, but like I said earlier, there's a nagging feeling that it might have affected the SQ of my ZSR.


----------



## groucho69

Cruelhand Luke said:


> v2. with foam tips...I'm a simple man, with simple tastes



but not a simpleton


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 13, 2018)

Opened my Edr1's that were sent to me free for buying the Kz10s. First thoughts was SHOZY ZERO! Now I sold my zero a few months ago after having them for a year or so, and I can only compare the edr1 to my fuzzy memory, but that's the first thing that popped in my head when I heard them. Strong low end, smooth milky mids and a nice balanced treble, with an overall warm sound. Very pleasant unless you dislike warm sounding phones.

Anyway The cable material is exactly the same as shozy zero. Makes me wonder if the drivers are the same too. Very very similar to my ears, but I'm old. Would be interested in a comparison by somone who still has both only just to confirm my fuzzy ear memory.

Regardless the things are dope as hell at $6-$10 or in my case free!


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Opened my Edr1's that were sent to me free for buying the Kz10s. First thoughts was SHOZY ZERO! Now I sold my zero a few months ago after having them for a year or so, and I can only compare the edr1 to my fuzzy memory, but that's the first thing that popped in my head when I heard them. Strong low end, smooth milky mids and a nice balanced treble, with an overall warm sound. Very pleasant unless you dislike warm sounding phones.
> 
> Anyway The cable material is exactly the same as shozy zero. Makes me wonder if the drivers are the same too. Very very similar to my ears, but I'm old. Would be interested in a comparison by somone who still has both only just to confirm my fuzzy ear memory.
> 
> Regardless the things are dope as hell at $6-$10 or in my case free!



Yup, EDR1s are the bomb!

They are one of my favorite IEMs. KZ really had lightning in a bottle with them


----------



## Otto Motor (May 13, 2018)

Dickymint said:


> Recently I bought the ZS10 and I see on here a lot of people bashing this IEM but from my point of view, this is a very capable headphone at an amazing price that sounds much better than a few I have purchased at ten times the price, so from my point of view, Thank You KZ for building such a nice IEM at a staggering price.



Which "a few" earphones at 10 times the price don't sound as good as the ZS10 - you must have had a very unlucky hand. Here a few that are in the same price segment or cheaper than the ZS10 that sound significantly better: Sony MH1C, Fostex TE-02, Fidue A65, Se**er UES...not counting their in-house KZ competition [go to "the other forum" for verification]. All of these are well balanced, and they have received rigorous reviews but not big hypes. 

And nobody has bashed the ZS10. Simply, their shortcomings were weighted against the hype started by KZ's announcement of this model. They are good value but nothing special and they certainly don't live up to their 10-driver-based hype. In fact, they don't add anything sonically to my collection.

IMO the ZS10 are good for a $40 earphone, but not so good for a 10-driver earphone, and it is questionable whether they add anything to KZ product suite. *That's probably what many feel and what you may perceive as "bashing".*

You may show us a 10-driver earphone that does NOT sound VERY MUCH better than the ZS10. But who cares, the 16-driver KZ is coming in two months.

I just went back to my "first impressions" after 3 hours of listening and can confirm them:

_"...*What is the value for money. Is the hype justified:* Value for money (I paid $33) is great. Hype is not justified imo.

*Do they sound like $999 earphones as claimed by someone else, or are they at least as well resolving as the UE900S ($399 list; $179 sale):* Absolutely not! The single-dynamic driver Fidue A65 has a better resolution and a more fluid, cleaner, more transparent and a more natural presentation.

*Early verdict (after 3 hrs of listening):* Good, worth the money but still not the miracle earphone, not even when amped. You need to add some technology added to the iPhone for the ZS10 bring out their best. The ZS6 are the better earphone imo and the ZSR may be more fun..."_

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2053#post-14179326


----------



## PacoBdn

@Otto Motor,

We already know that you do not like ZS10, you do not need to remind us every day.
You know what happens, that there comes a time that seems to scold us for liking the ZS10. You have your likes and preferences and other people have theirs.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 13, 2018)

PacoBdn said:


> @Otto Motor,
> 
> We already know that you do not like ZS10, you do not need to remind us every day.
> You know what happens, that there comes a time that seems to scold us for liking the ZS10. You have your likes and preferences and other people have theirs.


This thread is going down the drain. It is not about interpretation while excluding observation. I stated the pros and cons in my review and delivered graphical evidence and comparisons. Enough information to read between the lines and for figuring out whether it is for you or not, independent of the reviewer's opinion. And if you have any doubts on statements made in there, you are welcome to comment. But there should be evidence given for (unsubstantiated) claims such as a number of unnamed earphones at multiple the price sounding not as good. *This thread and any earphone evaluation are not faith based.*

And please give evidence where I stated I didn't like the ZS10 and where I scold people - which is a personal attack fishing for applause, usually not seen here. I just try to un-distort the big picture skewed by the hype.


----------



## Zerohour88 (May 13, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> IMO the ZS10 are good for a $40 earphone, but not so good for a 10-driver earphone, and it is questionable whether they add anything to KZ product suite.




and there it is, lol. Like I said, usually fall on deaf ears.

I've no idea why people still try to imagine a certain level of hype every time KZ announce a ridiculous amount of driver that they've managed to sell for cheap. Like you said, good for a $40 earphone. Isn't that enough?

like having a 4BA+1DD config somehow requires it to be judged with the same criteria as say the Super SD7, which is $150+.

It all starts from here, ignore the driver counts while discussing and just focus on the sound itself (also comfort and such, but that's another thing, trying to make a point here).

yeah, sure, you're gonna see video reviews or articles stating "OMG, 10 drivers for peanuts!!!", but nothing we can do there, only here.

of course, once it gets to ridiculous amounts, even the summit-fi guys can't help but order one, tbh. Like the upcoming 8BA model. Tickles their fancy, I reckon. To be fair, even $200 is peanuts to them

I should point out that this is in no way dismissing Otto. In fact, I like him being in the thread to counterbalance the hype that KZ fans may inadvertently stir up with intelligible argument and discussions


----------



## basshead11

After 10 hours of brain burn in i just noticed zs10 are very very tip sensitive. Yesterday,  my first impression with stock tips was really good but when i try them today i just noticed unnaceptable quality of mids and highs so i freaked out and tried all kind of tips to get my first impression again.

If you are getting bad impressions of mids and highs (muffed, bad quality in general) i have a theory about this: its all because the DD vent hole. This is not confirmed yet but ill try later to seal them so i can confirm this theory. Maybe this is something obvious but not for me until today lol.

I always use foam tips when i want a full insertion of the headphone nozzle in my ear to get a perfect seal. BUT with the zs10  when i insert the nozzle it automatically block the DD vent holes completely then i get strong bass and sub-bass response but unacceptable quality of mids and highs (particullary on mids).

So the trick here is getting a tip with a good seal that dont completely block the DD vent hole. For me this also means non a complete insertion. The DD vent hole must be half blocked for the best response. This balance is really dificult to get for me because to get a good seal i also need a full insertion of the nozzle in my ear. So i try diferent tips until i try the stock large Tennmak Pro tips and VOILÁ! detailed, strong and precise bass response, also crispy highs and excelentes mids, ¡ my first impression again!

So if you are trying to get the perfect seal with the zs10 (as me with the foam tips and full insertion) be carefull with the DD vent hole. They need to be half opened or half blocked to get the best response.


----------



## KainHighwind

After 2 weeks, I don't know if my ZS5 v2 improves itself or I get used to it, but I do not notice the high treble as much as when I first listened to it, yes treble is almost gone. Currently I use the stock tips because when using foam tips, it keeps ejecting and dropping out of my ears when I exercise, stock tips holding tighter into my ears tho. I use size M silicon tips, I tried size S foam tips but it is too small and drops out, size M will drop out when I exercise.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 13, 2018)

I suggest we split this thread into two branches: the first is for Head Fiers who seriously want to discuss technology such as impedance, frequency response graphs, comparisons, amping, sound signatures etc. Head Fiers who separate observation from interpretation and who back up their informed opinions with facts.

The other branch is for Hype Fiers to discuss the physical appearance of cables ("looks"), whether a red or a blue earpiece looks better, that cheap earphones sound like $1000 ones, burn-in cycles, and what the next just announced iem will sound like. No facts required. Also included are people who put words into other people's mouths and then go and attack these straw men.

Unless my observations deceive me, many of the deserved head fiers (who would fall into the first group) who have added substance to this thread have recently stayed away. I speculate it is because of too much fluff.

It is no surprise that the members of "the other forum" look down on Head Fi.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> I suggest we split this thread into two branches: the first is for Head Fiers who seriously want to discuss technology such as impedance, frequency response graphs, comparisons, amping, sound signatures etc. Head Fiers who separate observation from interpretation and who back up their informed opinions with facts.
> 
> The other branch is for Hype Fiers to discuss the physical appearance of cables ("looks"), whether a red or a blue earpiece looks better, that cheap earphones sound like $1000 ones, burn-in cycles, and what the next just announced iem will sound like. No facts required. Also included are people who put words into other people's mouth and then go and attack these straw men.
> 
> ...



https://www.head-fi.org/forums/sound-science.133/


----------



## Otto Motor (May 13, 2018)

The purpose of science is not to analyse or describe but to make useful models of the world. A model is useful if it allows us to get use out of it.
Edward De Bono

Coincidentally, I just wrote in another thread: "a bad model is better than no model at all". 

Being a scientist myself, I'd say the goal of science [scientia = knowledge] is to figure out things and therefore increase knowledge.

P.S.: No, I am not crazy, that's what I read when I followed B9's link.


----------



## Zerohour88

Otto Motor said:


> Unless my observations deceive me, many of the deserved head fiers (who would fall into the first group) who have added substance to this thread have recently stayed away. I speculate it is because of too much fluff.
> 
> It is no surprise that the members of "the other forum" look down on Head Fi.



No idea how it was before my time (I've lurked since days of the EDSE release but only recently made an account), but its the usual when new models aren't available on the market yet that the more helpful users doesn't join in (or occasionally chip in when they do visit the thread). 

Its the lull when there's really not much new to discuss that draws out the more fluff-related discussion of cables, colors and whatnot. Especially since new KZ models aren't really cheap enough to justify insta-buy testing (not when there are a lot more chi-fi to test now)

not gonna comment on the sound science thing since that's a rabbit hole I'd rather not dive into it

also couldn't give an arse on what "other forum" think, especially if they actually do make sweeping assumptions and look down on a whole forum?


----------



## Otto Motor (May 13, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> also couldn't give an arse on what "other forum" think, especially if they actually do make sweeping assumptions and look down on a whole forum?



Don't blame this on me. My neighbour, who is involved "in the other forum" told me that. I am not active over there. And it is, of course, not tied to this particular thread nor do I think it their snobbism over there is justified.

I am just the messenger. Don't shoot me, please!


----------



## Zerohour88

Otto Motor said:


> Don't blame this on me. My neighbour, who is involved "in the other forum" told me that. I am not active over there. And it is, of course, not tied to this particular thread or do I think it their snobbism over there is justified.
> 
> I am just the messenger. Don't shoot me, please!



No such blame is being placed, despite the fact that you're the one who brought it up.


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> ...the physical appearance of cables ("looks"), whether a red or a blue earpiece looks better...



While sound is first and foremost when it comes to audio gear (by definition), I think design and appearance is important too.

I used to design and manufacture my own line of automotive racing products. And I can say with certainty that I could not ignore the form of my products - how they looked, color options, etc. I had to care because many of my customers cared. I couldn't just cater to the % that only cared about pure science and function, no matter how crappy they looked. The flip side of that is that I had to care about function (first and foremost), because my products were intended to do a very important job, and not just "look good". I had to balance both, and discussions of my products on public forums and websites just like this one involved both as well.

I mean, assuming (hypothetically) that both of the below headphones sounded exactly the same (and cost the same). Which of these would you rather use while walking around shopping in public, or sitting at your desk with all of your coworkers working in close proximity all day?

This:



Or this:



And yeah, I'm sure there will be some people that say that choice #1 looks "much better", but I would imagine that the large majority would say choice #1 is comically ugly and would choose option #2. So you see, form IS important too.

And in the case of an IEM like the iBasso IT01, the red/blue version is preferred by many people over the black version because it is easy to tell the proper channels apart. So in that case, part of the form DOES perform a function.

Unfortunately when talking about any product in a product-specific thread like this one, no matter if it's headphones or cars or houses, you're going to have to put up with both form and function as part of healthy discussion.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 14, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I suggest we split this thread into two branches: the first is for Head Fiers who seriously want to discuss technology such as impedance, frequency response graphs, comparisons, amping, sound signatures etc. Head Fiers who separate observation from interpretation and who back up their informed opinions with facts.
> 
> The other branch is for Hype Fiers to discuss the physical appearance of cables ("looks"), whether a red or a blue earpiece looks better, that cheap earphones sound like $1000 ones, burn-in cycles, and what the next just announced iem will sound like. No facts required. Also included are people who put words into other people's mouths and then go and attack these straw men.
> 
> ...




Be more specific, Otto.


> The other branch is for Hype Fiers to discuss the physical appearance of cables ("looks)





DocHoliday said:


> Please consider offering them in all black (cable, restraints and 3.5mm jacks) like the TRN cable below because most of my silver-plated KZ cables have severe discoloration.





DocHoliday said:


> If this photo is anything to go by then the ZS10 will be shipped with KZ's bronze upgrade cable. If 'tis so, then KZ is hearing our belly-aching about the stock cables that were previously included (the last 5 or 6 models) and they've responded accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why must the free flow of discussion of all-things-KZ be rigid and stripped of anticipatory conjecture. The "joy" of being a hobbyist is not found solely in graphs, specifications and facts. While graphs, specifications and facts give considerable weight and are an integral part of the discussion on any given IEM aesthetics can and do play a part as well. 

Like JVC's HA-FXZ200, the I-Into i8 supposedly sound great 


Spoiler



JVC  HA-FXZ200
  

I-Into i8
   



....but they're hideous to me so their presentation matters little because I simply won't wear them whereas another individual may have no issue with their aesthetics.



> ...... and what the next just announced iem will sound like. No facts required.



I'll repeat my question and statement.

Why must the free flow of discussion of all-things-KZ be rigid and stripped of anticipatory conjecture. The "joy" of being a hobbyist is not found solely in graphs, specifications and facts. Graphs, specifications and facts give considerable weight and are an integral part of the discussion on any given IEM but the discussion will never end with specs, graphs and cold facts. The free flow of discussion holds our interest and it inspires KZ to try new things that might please fans of the KZ brand. 

.....and you can count me as a fan of KZ who enjoys taking the journey with them as they learn and grow. Not everything at KZ is a hit but I've gained the ability to have a more educated ear due to KZ's many relatively inexpensive models. Discussing possible characteristics of upcoming releases takes place in almost any consumer product you can think of, be it electronics, automobiles, apparel, what have you.....



DocHoliday said:


> My hope is that KZ continues their gentle restraint on the treble as they did with the ZSR. If the ZS10 treble is slightly restrained and the mids are slightly more forward than the ZSR, then how clean the overall sound signature is will rest squarely on the shoulders of KZ's choice for a DD. This is conjecture on my part but IMHO the proper choice would be KZ's 8mm DD to bring in the low end because it's faster and cleaner than KZ's 10mm DD. No need to pour in the heavy cream found in the ZSR; this time only half&half will be necessary for a clean, clear and vivid presentation.
> 
> If that's a 10mm dynamic driver in the photo then we'll probably get an improved ED9 sound signature. If it's an 8mm dynamic driver then I'll probably get my wish for an improved HDS1 sound signature. Either sound signature would be fantastic but I'm hoping for the latter.
> 
> ...



The cold hard facts of my ZS5(i) that were designed with NO crossover paint a picture contrary to the end result. I listened to them last night for four hours straight and guess what? They're very, very good in-ear monitors despite their unorthodox design. 

Otto Motor said "It is no surprise that the members of "the other forum" look down on Head Fi."



Otto Motor said:


> Don't blame this on me. My neighbour, who is involved "in the other forum" told me that.....I am just the messenger. Don't shoot me, please!



In the end, scientist or not, science is more than observation; science involves experimentation. The KZ thread is our Petri Dish and if wondering aloud about what would happen if this or that was put into the Petri Dish is unacceptable.....



> I suggest we split this thread into two branches: the first is for Head Fiers who seriously want to discuss technology such as impedance, frequency response graphs, comparisons, amping, sound signatures etc. Head Fiers who separate observation from interpretation and who back up their informed opinions with facts.



.......then perhaps your wishes to narrow the focus to your preferences can begin here:

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/portable-headphones-earphones-and-in-ear-monitors.103/create-thread


For everyone else, apparently, the ZSA with it's 1+1 hybrid design may actually be a variation of the 2+1 hybrid design that KZ teased a few months back. 

ZSA
 

YZ35
 

In the meantime I'm looking forward to both of those along with more information about the YZ63 and YZ66 models.


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> ...In the meantime I'm looking forward to both of those along with more information about the YZ63...



I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!

The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing a nice large diameter dynamic driver into that big ol' round housing! The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great!



....from your keyboard to KZ's CEO.


----------



## fluteloop

Slater said:


> I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!
> 
> The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.




same. maybea  friction fit memory wire. one possibly two Ba's to tighten mids and uppers up.  resistor on them so they're present but not overpowering. so they "blend" into the soundscape.


----------



## MariusAB

Hello, has anyone have experienced this. Received ZSR from Gearbest, but in the left earphone there is some problem, because the wire with 2 pin  doesn't fit correctly to the earphone connection. It 'doesn't fit in till the end as it should be. So the earphone usually fell off very easily. The right side everything ok. I dont't remember i but i saw somewhere such problem  (in this thread or elsewhere). Is it possible to  correct this or this is the manufacturing spoilage? I tried zs6 upgraded cable for this but it also doesn't fit to zsr correctly. With zs6 i received nothing similar. Everything fits nicely.


----------



## 424358

Slater said:


> I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!
> 
> The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.



13mm and MMCX maybe? But everything KZ is 2-pin and TRN cable has that round shape at the connector but is 2-pin so maybe it’s just design and will still be 2-pin.


----------



## Dickymint

Otto Motor said:


> This thread is going down the drain. It is not about interpretation while excluding observation. I stated the pros and cons in my review and delivered graphical evidence and comparisons. Enough information to read between the lines and for figuring out whether it is for you or not, independent of the reviewer's opinion. And if you have any doubts on statements made in there, you are welcome to comment. But there should be evidence given for (unsubstantiated) claims such as a number of unnamed earphones at multiple the price sounding not as good. *This thread and any earphone evaluation are not faith based.*
> 
> And please give evidence where I stated I didn't like the ZS10 and where I scold people - which is a personal attack fishing for applause, usually not seen here. I just try to un-distort the big picture skewed by the hype.


Hi @Otto Motor, I was not having a go at you, you are just passing on your opinion and I don't see an issue with that! We are all allowed our opinions, there is too much aggression sometimes and it's not needed, we are all allowed to say what we think, you put forward an opinion, so did I, that should be enough!


----------



## Dickymint

Just to throw in my two penny's worth here, any new IEM "could" have different length nozzles that can be changed! I have the ZS6, it fits, no bother, I also now have the ZS10, the nozzles are just not quite long enough to stay in my ear canal, I am having to use a rather large foam bud to try and force them to stay in, as I said, the option to run either longer or shorter nozzles might be a nice idea. But then I suppose the cost goes up, or the option to have various filters gets added and so it goes on. A bit longer nozzle would be nice, I may be wrong but I don't think it would negatively impact on very many people, or maybe not at all!


----------



## Vestat

Slater said:


> I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!
> 
> The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.



I am also a huge fan of big drivers. Even if it's not proved or supported by experience, my personal feeling is that a bigger driver is moving the air in a more extensive way so the bass and the general power of the iem is wider.
I am sure that everybody will now say that lots of iems from that X company performs top level even with only BAs or small DD... of course!

But, I know that lower frequencies depend *also *on the amount of air the diaphragm moves.. so, the bigger the better.
And even if some big drivers may be complete c**p, I still feel that big drivers can deliver a better overall listening experience related to my favorite sound signature and preferences.
So, if I have to make a blind choice and the only info I have is the driver size, I go for the bigger one.


----------



## Michael2200

Hey folks. Im considering getting the KZ ZS10s. From what I've heard, they're pretty good for the price (about 40$ shipped). Can anyone with small ears pitch in and tell me about the fit? I have very shallow ears, and my ear channels typically just force rubber earbuds out, so im also considering getting memory foam ones.


----------



## youngarthur

Michael2200 said:


> Hey folks. Im considering getting the KZ ZS10s. From what I've heard, they're pretty good for the price (about 40$ shipped). Can anyone with small ears pitch in and tell me about the fit? I have very shallow ears, and my ear channels typically just force rubber earbuds out, so im also considering getting memory foam ones.


I also have small ears, and found foam was the best for me, as silicone kept popping out, and have no problems with the ZS10,when working around the house.


----------



## Slater

Vestat said:


> I am also a huge fan of big drivers. Even if it's not proved or supported by experience, my personal feeling is that a bigger driver is moving the air in a more extensive way so the bass and the general power of the iem is wider.
> I am sure that everybody will now say that lots of iems from that X company performs top level even with only BAs or small DD... of course!
> 
> But, I know that lower frequencies depend *also *on the amount of air the diaphragm moves.. so, the bigger the better.
> ...



Agreed.

I would take 12” subs over 8” subs any day.

I much prefer 40mm or 50mm drivers in my full size headphones, as 30mm often sounds anemic, like it’s struggling.

Same with many micro driver earphones when you start to push them. They tend to struggle like the little engine that could.

In my experience, that ‘struggle when pushed’ is often accompanied by (or caused by) distortion, which obviously isn’t good. I would much prefer to push a larger driver _less_ than a smaller driver _more_.


----------



## Zerohour88

DocHoliday said:


> .....and you can count me as a fan of KZ who enjoys taking the journey with them as they learn and grow.



This is also why I still check on KZ despite having lots of other chi-fi stuff to focus on. Though someone would accuse KZ of using people as lab rats. I didn't know that taking feedback from existing products and incorporating them into newer models is somehow a taboo.




Slater said:


> I too am eagerly awaiting the YZ63. I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!
> 
> The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great! Based on interpolation (or would it be considered extrapolation?) using the Starline eartip for scale, a 15-16mm driver should easily fit into that housing.



I hope having the shape of Dita Answer and the cheaper copy Tin Audio T1, it'll be another DD wonder. One change I would add is removable cables.


----------



## mono-type (May 14, 2018)

I asked this two pages ago, but I seemed to be ignored into oblivion, lol. Anyway, how reliable are KZ's balanced armatures? How would I know if the BA's of, say, the ZSR (in which I asked two pages ago) are still working? I am worried because I accidentally used my ZSR on an Xduoo X3 that has its volumed maxxed out, and played that very loud distorted music for around 3 seconds. There's a nagging feeling that I have that it affected the sound quality of my ZSR after that event.


----------



## HungryPanda

mono-type said:


> I asked this two pages ago, but I seemed to be ignored into oblivion, lol. Anyway, how reliable are KZ's balanced armatures? How would I know if the BA's of, say, the ZSR (in which I asked two pages ago) are still working? I am worried because I accidentally used my ZSR on an Xduoo X3 that has its volumed maxxed out, and played that very loud distorted music for around 3 seconds. There's a nagging feeling that I have that it affected the sound quality of my ZSR after that event.


 Do your ZSR's sound any different or do they sound wonky. If they sound ok then no damage has probably been done, good luck


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> Opened my Edr1's that were sent to me free for buying the Kz10s. First thoughts was SHOZY ZERO! Now I sold my zero a few months ago after having them for a year or so, and I can only compare the edr1 to my fuzzy memory, but that's the first thing that popped in my head when I heard them. Strong low end, smooth milky mids and a nice balanced treble, with an overall warm sound. Very pleasant unless you dislike warm sounding phones.
> 
> Anyway The cable material is exactly the same as shozy zero. Makes me wonder if the drivers are the same too. Very very similar to my ears, but I'm old. Would be interested in a comparison by somone who still has both only just to confirm my fuzzy ear memory.
> 
> Regardless the things are dope as hell at $6-$10 or in my case free!


you're not wrong about that--the edr and shozy do have similar signatures, with the same laid-back, warm tonality. i will concede that the shozy (which i thought was overpriced at $60) has more high end resolution/detail, but the difference isn't cost-effective--the edr is actually one of the better-tuned kzs and eons better than previous budget champs like the xiaomi piston or lg qb.


----------



## Dickymint

For fear of being blown out of the water but to give my own personal opinion and give you a reply, if they still sound correct, then there is a good chance that they are fine. A dynamic driver can be blown so far out that it sticks at full travel but a BA is encased within a frame, (if my memory is correct) and it should not suffer from the same effect, I would say that if it still works without a lot of distortion, then it is working.  Check it out on Youtube, https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=1uzFhlpKIvM&usg=AOvVaw2kuMA0m_NDYK-qxudgYbn8


----------



## MariusAB

MariusAB said:


> Hello, has anyone have experienced this. Received ZSR from Gearbest, but in the left earphone there is some problem, because the wire with 2 pin  doesn't fit correctly to the earphone connection. It 'doesn't fit in till the end as it should be. So the earphone usually fell off very easily. The right side everything ok. I dont't remember i but i saw somewhere such problem  (in this thread or elsewhere). Is it possible to  correct this or this is the manufacturing spoilage? I tried zs6 upgraded cable for this but it also doesn't fit to zsr correctly. With zs6 i received nothing similar. Everything fits nicely.



I have managed to fit in the wire in to the earphone, but only after using much pressure and much force. It shouldn't be so, but  it seems that ZSR  quality of manufacturing is much worse than for example zs6. I even thought that i received damaged  earphone. So if someone will receive zsr with such problem - keep  in mind that it's only a matter of a power used. One earphone fits nicely without any power and second one is completely different.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 14, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Be more specific, Otto.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Doc,
My suggestion to split up the thread was to some extent tongue in cheek - I know it is not realistic. My overall point was that people like us take time, analyse things, write reviews etc. and then others come out of the woodwork and jump in with unfounded and not credible statements  to challenge them.  No discussion or facts required. Or you get put words in your mouth in order to look like a miserable b*st*rd. All of that is not warranted. Disagreement is healthy, it promotes discussion, but it should have more substance than personal attack. Crying when a reviewer does not find your personal favourite outstanding is misplaced here.

When you go back you see that I "like" when people put in some effort, be it with words or pictures.

I have yet to find my holy grail: that cheap Chifi iem that rivals a $ 500 or $1000 model.

ADDENDUM 1: We are not really doing science here, but I want to repeat that a bad model (review) is better than no model (review) at all. Any information helps - at least to read between the lines. And the more info the merrier. I collect EVERY review of an iem of interest in a bookmarks folder.

ADDENDUM 2: Do I actually use the ZS10? Yes, I do! Analytical listening for the purpose of reviewing and everyday use are two different things. Do I think the ZS10 looks good and handles well? Yes, see my review. Do I regret having purchased it? No! I encourage you to read as many reviews of the ZS10 as possible.


----------



## mono-type

HungryPanda said:


> Do your ZSR's sound any different or do they sound wonky. If they sound ok then no damage has probably been done, good luck


How wonky it should sound? Like a distortion, garbledness, or something? How does a broken balanced armature sound like?

They seem to sound normal. However, I don't know if it's just me, but after that happened, the highs and mids seemed to be veiled.


----------



## bhazard

I hope KZ sticks to a balanced tuning and really refines the 8 driver (per side). I had high hopes for the ZS10 but the tuning is off and it ergonomically sucks.

Still, I use the ZS10 for God of War and other video games as it actually excels with them. Not the true intention I wanted these for, but it works out really well. Beats overpriced gaming headsets for sure.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 14, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Doc,
> My suggestion to split up the thread was to some extent tongue in cheek - I know it is not realistic. My overall point aww was that people like us take time, analyse things, write reviews etc. and then others come out of the woodwork and jump in with unfounded and not credible statements  to challenge them.  No discussion or facts required. Or you get put words in your mouth in order to look like a miserable b*st*rd. All of that is not warranted. Disagreement is healthy, it promotes discussion, but it should have more substance than personal attack. Crying when a reviewer does not find your personal favourite outstanding is misplaced here.
> 
> When you back back you see that I "like" when people put in some effort, be it with words or pictures.
> ...



Understood, thanks for the clarification.  

My post may have come across a bit heavy-handed; it was posted in the spirit of keeping a free flow of information.........flowing. 

I agree with your sentiment about the more juvenile fodder but what can one do? It's part and parcel with the "free flow" bits.


----------



## CYoung234

Otto Motor said:


> And please give evidence where I stated I didn't like the ZS10 and where I scold people - which is a personal attack fishing for applause, usually not seen here. I just try to un-distort the big picture skewed by the hype.



@Otto Motor , maybe you are getting too sensitive? While I agree with many of the points you made in the post I quoted about being subjective versus objective, he did not actually name anyone by name in his original post. Yet, you jumped right in as if you had been personally attacked.

To keep things on track, I only received my ZS10s on Saturday, and have only had five or ten minutes to listen to them. So far, though, I like them. They need a lot more listening and comparing them to my T2's, ZS6's and others before I can draw any real conclusions though.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 14, 2018)

Never noticed the resemblance until now.



 

Shozy Hibiki SE


----------



## Otto Motor

CYoung234 said:


> @Otto Motor , maybe you are getting too sensitive?




Hmmm...considering the statement is not quite correct and also out of context...We learn: nothing in life is black and white.


----------



## Podster (May 14, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> Doc,
> My suggestion to split up the thread was to some extent tongue in cheek - I know it is not realistic. My overall point was that people like us take time, analyse things, write reviews etc. and then others come out of the woodwork and jump in with unfounded and not credible statements  to challenge them.  No discussion or facts required. Or you get put words in your mouth in order to look like a miserable b*st*rd. All of that is not warranted. Disagreement is healthy, it promotes discussion, but it should have more substance than personal attack. Crying when a reviewer does not find your personal favourite outstanding is misplaced here.
> 
> When you go back you see that I "like" when people put in some effort, be it with words or pictures.
> ...



I too appreciate the clarification Otto, I'm hoping it's cleared some things up for those who sometimes post before really thinking/reading about anything (this includes a multitude of others post on the same item). I've never been a formal review type kind of guy basically because I don't have the time to put all the detail in so many others like yourself do. On the same token though I consider myself after being a owner of decent sounding stereo for over 50 years someone who can articulate what he hears. It always amazes me how some can take any of this personally and lose ones head of the hobby so many of us love but self control is something many can't avoid and you know the old saying about "Once the cat is out of the bag"!! I generally just try to engage my Ignoro-Meter these days because I really used to let this type of response get to me as well just ask a few of the Mods

@DocHoliday My 15 year old could care less about the Greening of his TFZ Series 1s cables but I'd be totally embarrassed to have these sticking out of my ears (I believe Carly would say, He's so vain")LOL I'm just thrilled none of my Tri-Braids have reached the level you have depicted of yours here as I'll simply  when they do


----------



## Otto Motor (May 14, 2018)

Podster said:


> I too appreciate the clarification Otto, I'm hoping it's cleared some things up for those who sometimes post before really thinking/reading about anything (this includes a multitude of others post on the same item). I've never been a formal review type kind of guy basically because I don't have the time to put all the detail in so many others like yourself do. On the same token though I consider myself after being a owner of decent sounding stereo for over 50 years someone who can articulate what he hears. It always amazes me how some can take any of this personally and lose ones head of the hobby so many of us love but self control is something many can't avoid and you know the old saying about "Once the cat is out of the bag"!! I generally just try to engage my Ignoro-Meter these days because I really used to let this type of response get to me as well just ask a few of the Mods
> 
> @DocHoliday My 15 year old could care less about the Greening of his TFZ Series 1s cables but I'd be totally embarrassed to have these sticking out of my ears (I believe Carly would say, He's so vain")LOL I'm just thrilled none of my Tri-Braids have reached the level you have depicted of yours here as I'll simply  when they do


Hi Podster,
Thanks for introducing yourself. Always good to know who we are talking to. My stereo system is not quite as old, it is from 1985. 

P.S. Out of scientific interest: is your Middle Earth location humid or did the cable green through body contact. My location is semi-arid, no greening in the last half year. Wonder whether this will hold up. My speaker cables haven't greened in 33 years.


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Diggin' these ZSR's balanced out of my Opy#1



I will have to post a more current photo because they are more......ahemmmm ....they have a more robust patina, LOL.....  than before. 

By the way, has that cable (above) shown any sign of discoloration? 

Is the cable weeks or months old?

and finally......

Is that perpendicular connection less comfortable or a slightly awkward fit to the stock 90° angle fit?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> The purpose of science is not to analyse or describe but to make useful models of the world. A model is useful if it allows us to get use out of it.
> Edward De Bono
> 
> Coincidentally, I just wrote in another thread: "a bad model is better than no model at all".
> ...



I absolutely didn't imply you were crazy. What you suggested is perfect for a thread in the sound science forum.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> I will have to post a more current photo because they are more......ahemmmm ....they have a more robust patina, LOL.....  than before.
> 
> By the way, has that cable (above) shown any sign of discoloration?
> 
> ...



Cable is only 3 months old Doc and no change as of yet, because the shell's swivel easy at the MMCX and the heat shrink is set to a 90 Degree angle it's just like a 90 degree connector really

@Otto Motor , Arkansas USA and very humid here. The only reason these are not greener is because they are usually used indoors in AC, my main rig outside of my Well-Tempered Amadeus GTA & iTransport are pre '95


----------



## Otto Motor (May 14, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I absolutely didn't imply you were crazy. What you suggested is perfect for a thread in the sound science forum.


B9, I didn't perceive it like that at all, didn't feel offended at all, and had addressed the public. Simply, Head Fiers may have had problems establishing the context of this and justifiably so. It (the science thing) came somewhat out of the blue. As to crazy...see the $100 headphone thread...all in good humour.


----------



## CoiL (May 14, 2018)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-712#post-14239658

I think I will try out new ZSA! Metal shells (look beautiful and quite ergonomic), open-back, probably ATE(or fine tune version of it) driver + BA in large nozzle - what not to like? ;P

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ea73-4c0d-9694-4e7053b06ea7&priceBeautifyAB=0









And if I don`t like them... I`ll end up nice shells for my 4x ATE backups, remove BAs and tune FF-mod-like


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-712#post-14239658
> 
> I think I will try out new ZSA! Metal shells (look beautiful and quite ergonomic), open-back, probably ATE(or fine tune version of it) driver + BA in large nozzle - what not to like? ;P
> 
> ...



Looks good. Will hop on those and maybe the ES4 when they inevitably drop in price


----------



## Otto Motor

!!!!!


----------



## kazuma2017

8+8 balanced armuture
2018/07
4xxRMB


----------



## 424358

CoiL said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-712#post-14239658
> 
> I think I will try out new ZSA! Metal shells (look beautiful and quite ergonomic), open-back, probably ATE(or fine tune version of it) driver + BA in large nozzle - what not to like? ;P
> 
> ...



Damn my ES4 just shipped and now I have an urge to buy these hnnggggg


----------



## 424358

B9Scrambler said:


> Looks good. Will hop on those and maybe the ES4 when they inevitably drop in price



The ES4 are $18. Probably a sale would drop them down to $10 like the ZST but I couldn’t wait for one and ordered it at $18 anyways. KZ under $20 is still good value.

I guess I’ll wait for the ZSA to go on sale though. They look good.


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## Slater (May 14, 2018)

mono-type said:


> I asked this two pages ago, but I seemed to be ignored into oblivion, lol. Anyway, how reliable are KZ's balanced armatures? How would I know if the BA's of, say, the ZSR (in which I asked two pages ago) are still working? I am worried because I accidentally used my ZSR on an Xduoo X3 that has its volumed maxxed out, and played that very loud distorted music for around 3 seconds. There's a nagging feeling that I have that it affected the sound quality of my ZSR after that event.



BAs are fragile; moreso than many people realize.

Their biggest weakness is shock. You can literally break a BA by dropping your IEM on a hard table, tile floor, or outside on concrete. You often see BA drivers suspended in silicone surrounds (to reduce shock) but most of the time in low and midrange gear they are just sitting in the shell.

And of course like any driver, they are susceptible to damage via distortion from excessive volume, voltage, etc.

As far as the specific BAs in your ZSR, if they sound different (specifically a lack of treble), or 1 ear  sounds different than the other, then it’s likely the BAs are damaged. But if they sound like they always have, then I’m sure they’re fine.

Note: If the BAs did stop producing sound, sometimes you can “unstick” them by gently tapping the IEM on a table. Some ZS5 owners had to do this, due to what I assume was shock during shopping. It certainly can’t hurt if a BA is already gone.

Also, this brings up an important point for people to keep in mind with these “driver wars” multi-BA IEMs. If you have  3, 4, 5, 6 etc BAs in your IEM, it becomes increasingly more impossible to detect if/when 1 or more BAs have died. There is something to the K.I.S.S. principle - if you only have 1 or 2 BAs, it is much easier to tell when something isn’t working properly.


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2018)

MariusAB said:


> I have managed to fit in the wire in to the earphone, but only after using much pressure and much force. It shouldn't be so, but  it seems that ZSR  quality of manufacturing is much worse than for example zs6. I even thought that i received damaged  earphone. So if someone will receive zsr with such problem - keep  in mind that it's only a matter of a power used. One earphone fits nicely without any power and second one is completely different.



Nah, it’s not a ZSR specific thing. Just normal manufacturing tolerances. Don’t forget, this is fractions of a millimeter (ie ten thousands of an inch) we’re talking about here. It’s extremely tough to hold perfect consistency with that level of tolerance.

Some of the 2-pin jacks on KZs are ridiculously tight upon the 1st insertion. Once you get it inserted the 1st time, it spreads the female pins to the correct diameter and it becomes easier to insert from that point on.

I’ve had at least 1 of every KZ 2-pin model be super death grip tight (at least on 1 side). The vast majority are fine though.

Trust me, it’s *much* better for it to be a little tight than for it to be a little loose. You don’t want a loose female jack. People have lost their IEMs by the jack being loose and the earpiece just falling off.

And yeah, I know this post sounds like something other than earphones LOL


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## Podster (May 14, 2018)

CoiL said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-712#post-14239658
> 
> I think I will try out new ZSA! Metal shells (look beautiful and quite ergonomic), open-back, probably ATE(or fine tune version of it) driver + BA in large nozzle - what not to like? ;P
> 
> ...



I kind of figured these would appeal to you Coil I was figuring you'd come up with some real nice dark Ebony back plate on that red shell

Oh come on @Slater , we know your just JACKING with us


----------



## TheVortex

I have just bought a new IEM and can someone post the link on how to check if an IEM is out phase?

I can't post the model here.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> I have just bought a new IEM and can someone post the link on how to check if an IEM is out phase?
> 
> I can't post the model here.
> 
> Thanks in advance.





Spoiler








Or there is a phase test on audiocheck.net


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Thanks Slater.


----------



## Holypal

CoiL said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-712#post-14239658
> 
> I think I will try out new ZSA! Metal shells (look beautiful and quite ergonomic), open-back, probably ATE(or fine tune version of it) driver + BA in large nozzle - what not to like? ;P
> 
> ...



Two drivers for more than $30? That's not KZ!


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2018)

mono-type said:


> However, I don't know if it's just me, but after that happened, the highs and mids seemed to be veiled.



I don’t think 3 seconds would destroy both BAs in both sides. But with that said, the BAs in the ZSR are responsible for mids and treble. So if the mids and treble all of the sudden sound veiled, then there may be something up.

You would be able to tell via FR measurement. That’s the most scientific and surefire way to do it, as your ears are not a reliable enough method to detect if 1 or more BAs are damaged. You can get a Dayton Audio iMM-6 microphone for $20, use $0.10 of vinyl tubing as a coupler, and REW or ARTA on a PC or FFT Plot on iOS to measure (REW/ARTA are free; FFT Plot is $5). It’s not a high end compensated or IEC-compliant setup, but it will work perfectly fine for this purpose.

You could also tell by comparing it to another stock pair. This is 1 (of many) reasons why I usually try to buy good KZs in 2s. So I have a backup pair to compare with if 1 is damaged, or to A/B compare when modding, etc. The ZSR is one of KZs best models, so it would be ideal to buy a 2nd of. You could use it to compare the sound with, as well as having it as a backup.

You could also remove the nozzle screen and totally seal each BA 1 at a time with a small piece of blue tac and listen for any difference. If you hear absolutely no difference between a sealed and unsealed BA, then that BA is likely not working.


----------



## Zerohour88

Holypal said:


> Two drivers for more than $30? That's not KZ!



ZS10 popped up at $60 for pre-orders, so I wouldn't be surprised if the pricing of these ZSA is jacked up for pre-orders. Not even up on taobao yet


----------



## Deveraux

My S7 Edge has some problem with my ZS5 v1. There's some rattling noise when I play bass intensive tracks. Not present in any other phones. 

Suggest some good cheeeapp dac for ZS5 v1?


----------



## Makahl

Holypal said:


> Two drivers for more than $30? That's not KZ!



That's not a plastic KZ* 

The last time I checked to use a CNC machine for a project for a custom shell that was expensive as hell (easily $40+) also printing a simple layout using plastic ABS was about ~$8. If you consider that's the full price (which always drop) with a BA + DD + metal shell I'd say it's pretty reasonable. 

But to be fair, I've been skipping all KZ recently the only ones I'm looking forward are the ES4 and ZS4.


----------



## toddy0191 (May 14, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> B9, I didn't perceive it like that at all, didn't feel offended at all, and had addressed the public. Simply, Head Fiers may have had problems establishing the context of this and justifiably so. It (the science thing) came somewhat out of the blue. As to crazy...see the $100 headphone thread...all in good humour.



Just wanted to re-state that I didn't intend to offend you @Otto Motor , and was referring to your quirkiness, of which I am a big fan!

E.g. comparing iems to foods.

It was 100% meant as a compliment.

I've bought a few earphones based on your recommendations and they have always been as described.


----------



## MariusAB

Slater said:


> Nah, it’s not a ZSR specific thing. Just normal manufacturing tolerances. Don’t forget, this is fractions of a millimeter (ie ten thousands of an inch) we’re talking about here. It’s extremely tough to hold perfect consistency with that level of tolerance.
> 
> Some of the 2-pin jacks on KZs are ridiculously tight upon the 1st insertion. Once you get it inserted the 1st time, it spreads the female pins to the correct diameter and it becomes easier to insert from that point on.
> 
> ...



Thanks for explanation, it's my second acquaintance with KZ so don't know what to expect. It good to hear "it's normal"  Well, should add perhaps that normal in chi fi and in this price segment. Of course the manufacturing of such delicate things as earphones isn't very easy. I sometimes wonder how they manage to maintain such prices when there is big need for specific precision in making  such products (and good ones), and still KZ makes it cheaper than few bottles of vine. How these china guys doing it. Anyway happy to see my zsr tightly connected and there is no possibility to fell of as you mentioned.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 14, 2018)

Feel like a kid in a candy store!



 

 



Loving the move back to metal housing (ED15, ZS6 & ZSA) and the detail work looks good on all three.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 14, 2018)

Here more KZ history: KZ ED3 Perfection (silver) and KZ ED3M (also known as ED3C). If you want to learn how they sound and feel, check B9Scrambler's excellent writeup:
https://thecontraptionist.blog/2016...-place-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-2/


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> Feel like a kid in a candy store!
> 
> 
> 
> Loving the move back to metal housing (ED15, ZS6 & ZSA) and the detail work looks good on all three.


I'd say they look great...a very pragmatic design (Bauhaus meets Tonka)...but a similarity to the ZS6/Campfire Andromeda still exists. I'll wait and see what you will have to report on the sound. If....it is the greatest sounding earphone ever, nobody will buy KZ's more expensive iems.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Otto Motor said:


> Here more KZ history: KZ ED3 Perfection (silver) and KZ ED3M (also known as ED3C). If you want to learn how they sound and feel, check B9Scrambler's excellent writeup:
> https://thecontraptionist.blog/2016...-place-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-2/



Two models they should never have discontinued. Needed more unique names though given they're more or less polar opposites in terms of sound, lol.


----------



## Otto Motor (May 14, 2018)

And here is everybody's favourite....just kidding (partially). Again, check B9's blog or here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed4.21296/reviews

As to whether to discontinue these oldies or not. At one point it may become impossible for Knowledge Zenith to produce so many models simultaneously...and it may be impossible for the buyer to select the right one.

The ED3 and ED4 are good earphones. Don't know how much they cost initially but I paid $10 or less in their later days. And I am a big fan of piston-shaped earphones for easy insertion and removal (when at home).

Get the ED4 while you still can:
https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_293588.html?wid=1654075


----------



## Podster (May 14, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Two models they should never have discontinued. Needed more unique names though given they're more or less polar opposites in terms of sound, lol.



You are so dead on, was not much of the ED fan (unless it's the 9'er) but the 3c's I love





These diminutive little things are pretty sweet as well


----------



## Otto Motor

Podster said:


> You are so dead on, was not much of the ED fan (unless it's the 9'er) but the 3c's I love
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore the man behind the curtain


These striped cables are very good. See also ZSR!


----------



## riffrafff

CoiL said:


> I think I will try out new ZSA! Metal shells (look beautiful and quite ergonomic), open-back,


...

Are they truly open-back, or are the "vents" just for looks?


----------



## Podster (May 14, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> These striped cables are very good. See also ZSR!



You are correct Otto, many in the beginning really complained of their rubberyness (new word from the Pod Wagonals) and Springy nature but they sound very good (probably why KZ bought those 360 Million foot rolls of the stuff) seems like all their iem's had them for 4/5 years running until they went to the same outer sheath but solid but the same material. ZN1 Mini from the yoke back is literally a Garden Hose and pretty much indestructible





Heck, speaking of the striped cables even VJJB caught on and these babies are still my favorite woodies


----------



## WildSeven

Otto Motor said:


> Hi Podster,
> Thanks for introducing yourself. Always good to know who we are talking to. My stereo system is not quite as old, it is from 1985.
> 
> P.S. Out of scientific interest: is your Middle Earth location humid or did the cable green through body contact. My location is semi-arid, no greening in the last half year. Wonder whether this will hold up. My speaker cables haven't greened in 33 years.


Your stereo system is older then me and my hair is already turning grey due to work and stress. Life is short, enjoy while you can.


----------



## CYoung234

Otto Motor said:


> Hmmm...considering the statement is not quite correct and also out of context...We learn: nothing in life is black and white.



Oops, you are right. I meant to quote your original reply to @Dickymint , but quoted that one instead. Sorry.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Feel like a kid in a candy store!
> 
> 
> 
> Loving the move back to metal housing (ED15, ZS6 & ZSA) and the detail work looks good on all three.



Is it just me, or is that a new cable too (at the 2-pin end)? It looks like a 45-degree plug; in between the existing straight ZS3 style and the 90-degree ZST style.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is that a new cable too (at the 2-pin end)? It looks like a 45-degree plug; in between the existing straight ZS3 style and the 90-degree ZST style.



They are indeed new connectors. Note how flush they are with the ZSA. The original ZST/ES3 connector had a slightly raised twin grip-strip:



 

 .......but these are free of the grips. 



 

By the way, check out that price!



Spoiler


----------



## Otto Motor

DocHoliday said:


> By the way, check out that price!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



I wonder what the interior difference between the ZSA and the ES4 is. Both have one DD and one BA. Price difference is $2. $2 more for the ZSA's metal housing?


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> They are indeed new connectors. Note how flush they are with the ZSA. The original ZST/ES3 connector had a slightly raised twin grip-strip:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I thought they looked different. I was just unable to go get my cables and verify.

Good price too!

Although like the ZS10, I'm going to wait for a number of them to roll in to see what the impressions are.

I have very high hopes though - aluminum housing, the red ATE dynamic driver, and a 'new and improved' BA driver? Sounds promising!!


----------



## rggz (May 14, 2018)

Does someone know if the ZS3 are now using 0.75mm instead of 0.78mm? My friend is selling one glossy ZS3 for a good price (black box) without cable and I got only 0.75mm cables. (unfortunately I can't test since we're from different states).


----------



## Slater

rggz said:


> Does someone know if the ZS3 are now using 0.75mm instead of 0.78mm? My friend is selling one glossy ZS3 for a good price (black box) without cable and I got only 0.75mm cables. (unfortunately I can't test since we're from different states).



Yeah, they've been 0.75mm for a long time now (including your buddy's glossy pair).

0.78mm were very rare - just the very original batch, which are looong gone.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 15, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> I wonder what the interior difference between the ZSA and the ES4 is. Both have one DD and one BA. Price difference is $2. $2 more for the ZSA's metal housing?




The ES4 has a 10mm graphene DD while the ZSA has an 8mm DD which may or may not be graphene. 

 



 

An 8mm DD may indicate that the ZSA could have a very balanced signature if it is tuned like the ZST's 8mm DD though the ES4 is the one advertised as having a "reference" sound signature. In order for the ES4 to have a "reference" sound signature the crossover must have been put to good use because the 10mm DD is quite full-bodied in it's natural state (ZSR & ES3) but, apparently, KZ wants to get the point across that the ES4 is not an entry-level in-ear monitor; it is professional grade. 



 


 

The ES4 appears to have a customized 30095 treble BA while the ZSA has an "improved" BA (not necessarily the same BA advertised on the ES4).



 

This will be the first time hearing the "improved" BA so it's useless speculating at this point. That said, the ZSA's triple-vented faceplates may afford them a bit of air and an improved sense of space between instruments. 

My expectation is that the ES4 with it's 10mm graphene DD and a proper crossover is a direct upgrade to the already good ES3.



 

....and as always, further refinement (of the ES3) is always welcome.

Haven't heard either so remember.......It's all conjecture.

Also, I think it's great that the cable offered with the ES4 is different from the cable offered with the ZSA. I have a handful of identical KZ cables from the ZST and ES3 so more variety is a good thing. 

Have to wait and see but I'm all ears.


----------



## pbui44 (May 15, 2018)

Have any of you guys tried the iFi IEMatch adapter with any of your KZs?  When I first heard my KZ ZS6, I thought, “Eh, it’s pretty good.”  After 96 straight hours of regular album playing at 50% volume, I thought, “Okay, now it’s very good.”  After an extra 50 hours of regular album playing at 75% volume, I thought, “Wow, these are great!”  Now after pairing the ZS6 with the IEMatch, I think “Damn, these are bad-ass!” 

With the pairing, I can now hear each armature and dynamic driver working more separately and clearly (I have used DN-2000J, ASG-1.5, Noble Savant Wizard, and SE846 I owned at some point as comparison) and now the ZS6 went from competing up to $250 IEMs to competing up to $500 IEMs, keeping the sound value at 5x!  If anything, the pairing now sounds like surround monitors with the multiple active and passive driving, which is something I never had in an IEM!  I am quite a happy camper with both purchases now.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 15, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> With the pairing, I can now hear each armature and dynamic driver working separately



This perfectly describes what I hear when pairing the ZS6 to my Fiio X3 (first generation) and it's why I think the ZS6 is such a great IEM. Everything is neatly separated so you can hear the detail from each of the drivers. 

I'm still holding out hope that KZ will offer us a ZS6 SE (Special Edition ) in "Midnight Blue with brass accents" and "Arctic White with brass accents" now that they have graphene DD's and customized and/or improved BA's. 

I think the ZS6 is an IEM that is good enough to be a KZ mainstay the way the ED9 and ATE are so incremental improvements where possible should prove fruitful.

Again, further refinement is always welcome.


----------



## mono-type (May 15, 2018)

Slater said:


> I don’t think 3 seconds would destroy both BAs in both sides. But with that said, the BAs in the ZSR are responsible for mids and treble. So if the mids and treble all of the sudden sound veiled, then there may be something up.
> 
> You would be able to tell via FR measurement. That’s the most scientific and surefire way to do it, as your ears are not a reliable enough method to detect if 1 or more BAs are damaged. You can get a Dayton Audio iMM-6 microphone for $20, use $0.10 of vinyl tubing as a coupler, and REW or ARTA on a PC or FFT Plot on iOS to measure (REW/ARTA are free; FFT Plot is $5). It’s not a high end compensated or IEC-compliant setup, but it will work perfectly fine for this purpose.
> 
> ...


Thanks as always, @Slater. Yeah, I very much agree that the ZSR is one of their best releases yet, that's why I'm worried that I might broke them. Tried the Blu Tack method. Sealed one BA, then another BA, and finally both two BAs. I can't hear any treble when the BAs were sealed with Blu Tack; all I hear was gradual loss of details as I seal more BAs. So, the BAs of my ZSR are still working fine? I guess I'm just being paranoid after I blasted my ZSRs, haha. I'll try to buy another pair of ZSR to hear if my current pair is working as it should.


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> Thanks as always, @Slater. Yeah, I very much agree that the ZSR is one of their best releases yet, that's why I'm worried that I might broke them. Tried the Blu Tack method. Sealed one BA, then another BA, and finally both two BAs. I can't hear any treble when the BAs were sealed with Blu Tack; all I hear was gradual loss of details as I seal more BAs. So, the BAs of my ZSR are still working fine? I guess I'm just being paranoid after I blasted my ZSRs, haha. I'll try to buy another pair of ZSR to hear if my current pair is working as it should.



Sure friend, glad to help.

If you're hearing gradual loss of detail as you seal more and more BAs, and then finally no treble when all BAs were sealed, then it sounds like they are working fine.

I wouldn't sweat it.


----------



## rfsux (May 22, 2018)

Under the open, dynamic driver vent of the ZS10 is a fine mesh.


----------



## rfsux (May 22, 2018)

ZS10’s are great sounding


----------



## kw8910

DocHoliday said:


> They are indeed new connectors. Note how flush they are with the ZSA. The original ZST/ES3 connector had a slightly raised twin grip-strip:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Picked up the zsa for $20 after coupon. Kz says only red/black in stock at the moment and grey will arrive 5 days from now. Also comes with upgraded silver cable for the next 7 days..


----------



## DSebastiao (May 15, 2018)

New iem day here, ZSR just arrived, first impressions: Definitely more warm than ZST, overall i feel the music closer to the front, really feels like they're singing at my ear.

Altough the ZST's high are more piercing, i feel like this has more detail, i hear the hi hat in way more detail, only downside is that i feel less punch, but then again, this is the first and very early impressions.


----------



## 424358

Guys. I have ZST, ZS6, ZS5.

On the way is the ES4.

But the ZSA is $21 and the ZSR is $22. Should I get both? I love KZ and ughhhh will I regret not getting them now?


----------



## mbwilson111

misterchao said:


> Guys. I have ZST, ZS6, ZS5.
> 
> On the way is the ES4.
> 
> But the ZSA is $21 and the ZSR is $22. Should I get both? I love KZ and ughhhh will I regret not getting them now?



You have permission to get both


----------



## Aparker2005

If they improved on the es3 with the es4 I'll be very excited. Mine should be in soon. I went with the blue. I like my ZS10 but the es3 has still been one of my favorites. 

I'll try the 16 driver and be done for a while. I believe my guitarist wants me to get him the 16 when it debuts as well  Should be interesting!


----------



## 424358

mbwilson111 said:


> You have permission to get both



You are right. It’ll be a late graduation present to myself


----------



## loomisjohnson

Podster said:


> You are so dead on, was not much of the ED fan (unless it's the 9'er) but the 3c's I love
> 
> 
> 
> These diminutive little things are pretty sweet as well


haven't heard the ed4, but the ed3c is a worthy, overlooked piece. compared to the ed9, which it resembles sonically, mids are a little recessed but it has that really impressive instrument placement and imaging. the current zs iterations (zsr, zs5, etc.) may be more energetic and engaging, but the ed series definitely have a more "natural" accurate tuning.


----------



## Podster (May 15, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The ES4 has a 10mm graphene DD while the ZSA has an 8mm DD which may or may not be graphene.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Grips, "We don't need no stinking grips" I like the little window exposing the cable going into the connector as well but I'm excited to hear the customized 30095 BA and why my AliEx order has been triggered Ordered a few more of that bronze color SP cable while I was at it Should look good with the red/black pair and if you ever talk KZ into those two color choices of ZS6's you want you better tell me or else, or else I'm going to  like a 224 Lb baby

@loomisjohnson , I've come to grips (different than the ones above) that you and I will never agree on the ED9's but it's OK cause you got pretty good taste 99.9% of the time LOL jkjk


----------



## surfacecube

Hello guys !
My two pairs of UiiSii HM7 along my three pairs of Xiaomi Pistons Youth Edition all broke. I dont have any IEMs left bar my KZ Z5v1 which I love but is far too uncomfortable for my taste.

The Pistons were very fragile compared to my HM7 who both lasted one year each.

What I'm looking for first is a pair of cheap IEMs with decent sound for gaming (yes I could buy headphones for that but it's summer and IEMs are more versatile). Possibly with a detachable cable so I dont have to replace the whole unit in case of premature death (unless the IEM is really cheap and I could just buy a new pair even if I have to wait a week or two to receive them). I can go up to 10 euros to 15, but since it's mainly for gaming no need to go all out.

What I'm looking for in second is an alternative to said KZ Z5v1, I'm loving the audio but they're far too uncomfortable to use, so I'd like to find an alternative with a detachable cable and regular size IEM head. For this one I can go up to around 40 euros.

Thanks for reading !


----------



## Wiljen (May 15, 2018)

Zs10 notes are posted - here

pictures to follow tonight as I finish them up.


----------



## Otto Motor

surfacecube said:


> Hello guys !
> My two pairs of UiiSii HM7 along my three pairs of Xiaomi Pistons Youth Edition all broke. I dont have any IEMs left bar my KZ Z5v1 which I love but is far too uncomfortable for my taste.
> 
> The Pistons were very fragile compared to my HM7 who both lasted one year each.
> ...


Try the KZ ZSR....I used them for Formula 1 TV broadcast (lots of motor sounds) and they impressed me in their threedimensionality for this purpose - more so than more expensive brandnames such as Focal Sphear or even big headphones such as the AKG K550. You certainly can't go wrong with them unless you have problems with fit.


----------



## Otto Motor

Wiljen said:


> Zs10 notes are posted - here
> 
> pictures to follow tonight as I finish them up.


I think we are on the same frequency - browsed through your review, will pick out the details later, gotta run now.


----------



## HerrXRDS

DocHoliday said:


> This perfectly describes what I hear when pairing the ZS6 to my Fiio X3 (first generation) and it's why I think the ZS6 is such a great IEM. Everything is neatly separated so you can hear the detail from each of the drivers.
> 
> I'm still holding out hope that KZ will offer us a ZS6 SE (Special Edition ) in "Midnight Blue with brass accents" and "Arctic White with brass accents" now that they have graphene DD's and customized and/or improved BA's.
> 
> ...



Such a joy when some complex piece hits and you can hear each part doing it's thing, for some things I prefer them over the IT01 and even the Kings Pro. If it weren't for those piercing highs these would've been soo good. I'm hoping for a 12mm graphene with improved or Knowles BA on 3 way crossover. That would be sweet.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

DocHoliday said:


> The ES4 has a 10mm graphene DD while the ZSA has an 8mm DD which may or may not be graphene.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's no "improved" BA, just another 30095. Have a look at the frequency response below, it has the same mid-high peaks as every other KZ. Just like the peaks indicated in the Knowles datasheet for the 30095. If only they actually did something to tame those peaks.


----------



## DSebastiao

Anyone here got the ZS6 green recently on aliexpress or gearbest?


----------



## Wiljen (May 15, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Zs10 notes are posted - here
> 
> pictures to follow tonight as I finish them up.



And photos are up.    Now I can move on to something more fun to review.


----------



## rayliam80

DSebastiao said:


> Anyone here got the ZS6 green recently on aliexpress or gearbest?



I got them recently from NiceHCK.


----------



## Podster

DSebastiao said:


> Anyone here got the ZS6 green recently on aliexpress or gearbest?



Greens are the only ones I did not get and they would go great with my Green/Gold trim Tomahawk! I'm holding out hoping KZ catches wind of Doc's request for the "Midnight Blue" and Arctic White's" with brass screws

Still Lovin' my Marvel Series (Silver Surfer, Iron Man and the Black Panther)


----------



## surfacecube

Otto Motor said:


> Try the KZ ZSR....I used them for Formula 1 TV broadcast (lots of motor sounds) and they impressed me in their threedimensionality for this purpose - more so than more expensive brandnames such as Focal Sphear or even big headphones such as the AKG K550. You certainly can't go wrong with them unless you have problems with fit.



Thanks for the suggestion but they are as big as the ZS5 so I can't pick them


----------



## skajohyros

surfacecube said:


> Hello guys !
> My two pairs of UiiSii HM7 along my three pairs of Xiaomi Pistons Youth Edition all broke. I dont have any IEMs left bar my KZ Z5v1 which I love but is far too uncomfortable for my taste.
> 
> The Pistons were very fragile compared to my HM7 who both lasted one year each.
> ...



Love my zs5v1 as well. Luckily, they are comfy.
You should try sanding down the edges.


----------



## 424358

Podster said:


> Greens are the only ones I did not get and they would go great with my Green/Gold trim Tomahawk! I'm holding out hoping KZ catches wind of Doc's request for the "Midnight Blue" and Arctic White's" with brass screws
> 
> Still Lovin' my Marvel Series (Silver Surfer, Iron Man and the Black Panther)



Oh geeze! If a white model comes out im waiting for the White wolf Podster! Nice ZS6 collection they are just so good


----------



## Podster

misterchao said:


> Oh geeze! If a white model comes out im waiting for the White wolf Podster! Nice ZS6 collection they are just so good



THX

IMO they are the best headphone/iem for under $40 available today period but then again what do I know


----------



## rayliam80

pbui44 said:


> Have any of you guys tried the iFi IEMatch adapter with any of your KZs?  When I first heard my KZ ZS6, I thought, “Eh, it’s pretty good.”  After 96 straight hours of regular album playing at 50% volume, I thought, “Okay, now it’s very good.”  After an extra 50 hours of regular album playing at 75% volume, I thought, “Wow, these are great!”  Now after pairing the ZS6 with the IEMatch, I think “Damn, these are bad-ass!”
> 
> With the pairing, I can now hear each armature and dynamic driver working more separately and clearly (I have used DN-2000J, ASG-1.5, Noble Savant Wizard, and SE846 I owned at some point as comparison) and now the ZS6 went from competing up to $250 IEMs to competing up to $500 IEMs, keeping the sound value at 5x!  If anything, the pairing now sounds like surround monitors with the multiple active and passive driving, which is something I never had in an IEM!  I am quite a happy camper with both purchases now.



I don't have the iFi IEMatch Adapter but I have the iFi Audio Nano iDSD BL which has 2 headphone outputs - IEMatch and Direct (full power). From what I understand the iFi Nano BL has the iEMatch adapter already built in. I haven't tried any higher end IEMs myself so I can't agree or disagree that it turns our KZs into high end killers. But what I'm hearing now with my green ZS6 setup plugged into the IEMatch port at around 11 to 2 o'clock on the pot set to the measure filter (Linear Phase Transient Aligned Filter) through my Mac/Audirvana and it's....kinda fantastic. 

From the ZS6, one thing I'm noticing is any vocal sibilance the KZ may have introduced or increased in it's stock form is more or less removed. Some recordings with high hats still have a bit of a shhhhhhh-ness to them but it's not overpowering either. It's tamed now. Mids sound more present. And the bass. Well, I think my ear tip choice is helping out in that department to bring the bass up and make it more of a fun sounding IEM but to me, it's not too much. Overall, this is the best I've gotten my ZS6 to sound.


----------



## DocHoliday

ChaoticKinesis said:


> There's no "improved" BA, just another 30095. Have a look at the frequency response below, it has the same mid-high peaks as every other KZ. Just like the peaks indicated in the Knowles datasheet for the 30095. If only they actually did something to tame those peaks.



Your point is well taken with the FR graph but I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it's possible that KZ silently modified the 30095 and used it in the ZSR. 



 



 

This modification may be the very reason that the ZSR, though it uses the 30095 BA, does not share the treble found in models like the ZS6 and the ZST. The ZSR has a 30095 BA. If the ZSR's 30095 has been modified (unannounced) to slightly reduce treble extension and slightly increase high-midrange extension then this explains why the ZSR has a rich midrange and a treble presentation that diminishes fatigue.



 

Doesn't mean I'm right, it just makes sense to me. The only way to know for sure is to do testing once the newer models start showing up.

Rub....rub.....rub....



 

Hakuzen we'd like to make a wish!


----------



## Wiljen

pbui44 said:


> Have any of you guys tried the iFi IEMatch adapter with any of your KZs?  When I first heard my KZ ZS6, I thought, “Eh, it’s pretty good.”  After 96 straight hours of regular album playing at 50% volume, I thought, “Okay, now it’s very good.”  After an extra 50 hours of regular album playing at 75% volume, I thought, “Wow, these are great!”  Now after pairing the ZS6 with the IEMatch, I think “Damn, these are bad-ass!”
> 
> With the pairing, I can now hear each armature and dynamic driver working more separately and clearly (I have used DN-2000J, ASG-1.5, Noble Savant Wizard, and SE846 I owned at some point as comparison) and now the ZS6 went from competing up to $250 IEMs to competing up to $500 IEMs, keeping the sound value at 5x!  If anything, the pairing now sounds like surround monitors with the multiple active and passive driving, which is something I never had in an IEM!  I am quite a happy camper with both purchases now.



I have one but with the point of the ifi match being impedance matching, I never thought to try it with the KZs in general or the Zs6 in specific as they didn't really show any symptoms of needing it.  I'll have to go back and try it.


----------



## DSebastiao

rayliam80 said:


> I got them recently from NiceHCK.



Does it have the nozzle tip to hold the tips in place?


----------



## Otto Motor

surfacecube said:


> Thanks for the suggestion but they are as big as the ZS5 so I can't pick them


Here a photo! The ZSR has a really long nozzle.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (May 15, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Your point is well taken with the FR graph but I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it's possible that KZ silently modified the 30095 and used it in the ZSR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's all just speculation here but I'd sooner believe that the ZSR frequency response looks the way it does because they either implemented some kind of notch filter at 4-6 kHz or they just put a staggered crossover with a high-pass filter on the 30095 somewhere around that frequency. On the ZS10 it looks like they may have used a low-pass filter somewhere in the treble range. I honestly have no idea how realistic it is for them to have a modified 30095. However, if they do I would have expected a much smoother response from the ZS10 than what we got, especially after the ZSR. 

Referring back to the ZSA picture, that frequency response looks like it has the peaks of the stock 30095. If they modified it, I would think the first thing we'd see is those peaks getting smoothed out. Therefore either the frequency response pictured is a lot less smooth than what we'll see in the final product or, more likely, all this "upgrade" language is just misleading marketing. After all, "New Upgrade Balanced Armature Unit" is not proper English and potentially in Chinglish it can mean a number of different things.


----------



## rayliam80

DSebastiao said:


> Does it have the nozzle tip to hold the tips in place?



Mine does not. 






But I want to say someone else mentioned in the thread they got a green KZ recently and it had the lip on the nozzle.


----------



## DSebastiao

rayliam80 said:


> Mine does not.
> 
> 
> But I want to say someone else mentioned in the thread they got a green KZ recently and it had the lip on the nozzle.



Thanks, what cable is that?


----------



## Vestat

ZSA are now available at aliexpress... does anybody knows the difference between KZ official Store and KZ Global store on aliexpress? The price is slightly different and the offer in both stores include the silver cable for limited time.


----------



## KainHighwind

Wow KZ releases so much models and I almost get lost... What's the purpose of releasing too much models huh? ZS5, ZSR, ZSA are the same price.


----------



## HerrXRDS

KainHighwind said:


> Wow KZ releases so much models and I almost get lost... What's the purpose of releasing too much models huh? ZS5, ZSR, ZSA are the same price.



You gotta catch them all


----------



## KainHighwind

HerrXRDS said:


> You gotta catch them all



But wouldn't catch them all will cost hundred(s) and I should just get a hundred headphone and settle with it.


----------



## Fargeg (May 16, 2018)

-snip-


----------



## HungryPanda

Ouch


----------



## 424358

Vestat said:


> ZSA are now available at aliexpress... does anybody knows the difference between KZ official Store and KZ Global store on aliexpress? The price is slightly different and the offer in both stores include the silver cable for limited time.



I ordered it from Official store and they shipped out the next day. now like a 20 day wait. didn't even notice it comes with the silver cable. sweet


----------



## Deveraux

Should I get the ES4 or ZSA? I'm using the ZS5 v1 right now and I like it. Is either of these an upgrade to the v1?

P.S: Can't get both


----------



## nxnje

Deveraux said:


> Should I get the ES4 or ZSA? I'm using the ZS5 v1 right now and I like it. Is either of these an upgrade to the v1?
> 
> P.S: Can't get both



I follow this, i'm interestes.


----------



## CoiL

Deveraux said:


> Should I get the ES4 or ZSA? I'm using the ZS5 v1 right now and I like it. Is either of these an upgrade to the v1?
> 
> P.S: Can't get both



Very too much early to say anything about those. I decided to wait for few first impressions from users here before I pull trigger @ ZSA.
I ditched plans to get ZSR as gift for my wife due to too large shell (though I really really like red & white ZSR looks).

Though, there are still 2x ZS3 shells waiting for nozzle replacement and driver change (ATE drivers)... ZS3 fits and isolates great, is relatively small and very ergonomic.
If ZSA proves to be another minor "upgrade", I`ll just gift modded ZS3/ATE instead.


----------



## surfacecube

Otto Motor said:


> Try the KZ ZSR....I used them for Formula 1 TV broadcast (lots of motor sounds) and they impressed me in their threedimensionality for this purpose - more so than more expensive brandnames such as Focal Sphear or even big headphones such as the AKG K550. You certainly can't go wrong with them unless you have problems with fit.





Otto Motor said:


> Here a photo! The ZSR has a really long nozzle.



It's not about the nozzle, the case is just way too big for me


----------



## mbwilson111

KainHighwind said:


> But wouldn't catch them all will cost hundred(s) and I should just get a hundred headphone and settle with it.



You make a good point.  It depends on if you want to play with numerous new toys or, if you would be more comfortable just having something you enjoy and use all the time.  I have to admit, sometimes I wish I did not have so many choices,  Sometimes I don't know what I want to grab...plus they take up space.


----------



## MariusAB

"You make a good point. It depends on if you want to play with numerous new toys or, if you would be more comfortable just having something you enjoy and use all the time. I have to admit, sometimes I wish I did not have so many choices, Sometimes I don't know what I want to grab...plus they take up space".


it's not because of too much choices. It's because too good living and too much money we have to spent fur such  stuff that no body really needs. When you  don't have what to eat, you think where and how to eat. But when you have too much to eat you are buying 15 earphones and  then worrying about too much choices. And china is always ready to help you there  Let's buy one more KZ


----------



## loomisjohnson

MariusAB said:


> "You make a good point. It depends on if you want to play with numerous new toys or, if you would be more comfortable just having something you enjoy and use all the time. I have to admit, sometimes I wish I did not have so many choices, Sometimes I don't know what I want to grab...plus they take up space".
> 
> 
> it's not because of too much choices. It's because too good living and too much money we have to spent fur such  stuff that no body really needs. When you  don't have what to eat, you think where and how to eat. But when you have too much to eat you are buying 15 earphones and  then worrying about too much choices. And china is always ready to help you there  Let's buy one more KZ


it's all about your personal priorities. last week i went to a fancy restaurant where cocktails were like $20 and a few oysters were $15. all the while i was thinking that i would be much happier grabbing a few tacos and spending the difference on, say, that nicehck hk6 in my shopping cart, which won't fade into oblivion a few seconds after consumption.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 16, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> all the while i was thinking that i would be much happier grabbing a few tacos and spending the difference on, say, that nicehck hk6 in my shopping cart



That's me..... always thinking that it would be better spending the money on an out of print CD so I can make a clean duplicate file in WAV or FLAC format 




 





 or sampling an IEM with a different sound signature.


----------



## SciOC (May 16, 2018)

MariusAB said:


> "You make a good point. It depends on if you want to play with numerous new toys or, if you would be more comfortable just having something you enjoy and use all the time. I have to admit, sometimes I wish I did not have so many choices, Sometimes I don't know what I want to grab...plus they take up space".
> 
> 
> it's not because of too much choices. It's because too good living and too much money we have to spent fur such  stuff that no body really needs. When you  don't have what to eat, you think where and how to eat. But when you have too much to eat you are buying 15 earphones and  then worrying about too much choices. And china is always ready to help you there  Let's buy one more KZ


Mazlows hierarchy of needs comes to mind.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs?wprov=sfla1
For some reason I don't think I'd have the anxiety/depression issues I have if I was using all my time struggling to survive.  I wonder how much of our modern mental problems and crazy habits are really symptoms of how easy we actually have the basics of life in modern society. The bad part is, it's only going to get worse.  We have all this free time where our brains are left to their own devices rather than working out how to survive or not get eaten by a bear that they just after to focus on relatively unimportant stuff that we give unrealistically enhanced importance to.

I consider my obsession with audio to be a mostly positive aspect of my life, and I enjoy the collect them all attitude.

YOU very well might be better served buying one nice pair or you might not, it depends if you could adequately demo all the sets you want to hear and it you really know what you want...

Collecting a lot of cheap KZs can really help you figure out what you do and don't like and keep you "up to date" on recent technological advanced without breaking the bank. 

Some may be mistakes, but they're cheap mistakes.  i can tell you one of my big audio mistakes is the oppo pm-3, i'd rather listen to my kz zsr than those and I'm sure i could buy all of kz's IEMs for less than what I paid for that single pair of pm-3s.  I think all of us have some audio regrets, and buying KZ is always at least a cheap mistake if it doesn't love up to the hype... 

Plus, damned if it doesn't distract my crazy mind from my other issues, i'd much rather argue about whether or not the new 16 driver KZ is going to be worth it, or if the es4 truly had an improved BA, than to have my brain wondering if I encountered a bat walking under a bridge and if I'll get rabies because I didn't notice it flew into me...

There are a lot worse things to have your mind do while idling than this...


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, is it true that the connector's for ALL kz iem's are 0.75mm?


----------



## Saoshyant

Quite a lot of them, but old ZS3 and new ZS3 for example use different sizes.


----------



## AKMW44

Help please, I'm I after a cheap replacement audio cable with  volume control for kzzs6, so. 75mm 2 pin I believe  . Thanks for any suggestions. Nearly forgot to say around a tenner.


----------



## pbui44

AKMW44 said:


> Help please, I'm I after a cheap replacement audio cable with  volume control for kzzs6, so. 75mm 2 pin I believe  . Thanks for any suggestions. Nearly forgot to say around a tenner.



The only one I could find with volume control around the uk is Bluetooth-only here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...Y2H3NG47CWV1TXRN&dpPl=1&dpID=41yAbzUj-fL&th=1

or if you can wait a week or two:

https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_712247.html


----------



## Zlivan

Cheap and quite alright:
http://s.aliexpress.com/7VbYF7Fr


----------



## DocHoliday (May 16, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I honestly have no idea how realistic it is for them to have a modified 30095. However, if they do I would have expected a much smoother response from the ZS10 than what we got, especially after the ZSR.
> 
> Referring back to the ZSA picture, that frequency response looks like it has the peaks of the stock 30095. If they modified it, I would think the first thing we'd see is those peaks getting smoothed out. Therefore either the frequency response pictured is a lot less smooth than what we'll see in the final product or, more likely, all this "upgrade" language is just misleading marketing. After all, "New Upgrade Balanced Armature Unit" is not proper English and potentially in Chinglish it can mean a number of different things.



I won't be casting stones at KZ over semantics; I can hear the difference in the ZSR's presentation when comparing it to previous KZ hybrids, all of which did employ the 30095 BA.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Deveraux said:


> Should I get the ES4 or ZSA? I'm using the ZS5 v1 right now and I like it. Is either of these an upgrade to the v1?
> 
> P.S: Can't get both



Looking at their history, I don't think that ZSA has any crossover filter so I don't think it can be that much different from their other 1DD+1BA offerings. Personally I'm more interested in the ES4. Might not look as good as the ZSA, but the new graphene DD and the crossover filter should make for an interesting sound. Still, after the ZS10 pre-order disappointment, I'll wait for some reviews before ordering this one.


----------



## Podster

Indeed Doc and I think KZ is making major headway even if they are having to release a model a week to get there


----------



## loomisjohnson

(double posted)
Good People:
I'm informed that the mods have 86'd OttoMotor from this and the chifi thread, ostensibly for mentioning the banned seller. Personally, I think that's a big loss to this community--whatever you think of his style (his is a warlike race), he's a very well-informed guy with a great ear, significantly better than mine. I've also never known him to be abusive, profane or heretical; hopefully the mods can be prevailed upon to reverse their decree.


----------



## handwander

DocHoliday said:


>


Where does one get yellow tips from?

Preferably to fit Shure sized nozzles..


----------



## groucho69

Ooooooppppps


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> (double posted)
> Good People:
> I'm informed that the mods have 86'd OttoMotor from this and the chifi thread, ostensibly for mentioning the banned seller. Personally, I think that's a big loss to this community--whatever you think of his style (his is a warlike race), he's a very well-informed guy with a great ear, significantly better than mine. I've also never known him to be abusive, profane or heretical; hopefully the mods can be prevailed upon to reverse their decree.



I kinda noticed the post disappeared and the mods not really replying to the discussion regarding the banned seller (implying they've drawn the line in the sand). Sadly, its up to them and it isn't a democracy. Hopefully its just temporary since I'd rather have his opinionated insights than some trolls adding zero value to the discussions.


----------



## Slater (May 16, 2018)

Well, if people don't stop throwing the names out there (even innuendo versions like 'the seller who shall not be named' and the 'banned seller' etc), the whole thread could get locked. It's happened in the past, and I'm sure nobody wants that.

So please, read the info in my signature, and stick to the rules. I'm sure the powers that be have very little patience/tolerance for this topic at this point, and we'd hate to lose more valuable members of the community (or lose threads due to locking).


----------



## rayliam80

I liked the appearance of the grey ZSA so I went ahead and ordered them.


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> Well, if people don't stop throwing the names out there (even innuendo versions like 'the seller who shall not be named' and the 'banned seller' etc), the whole thread could get locked. It's happened in the past, and I'm sure nobody wants that.
> 
> So please, read the info in my signature, and stick to the rules. I'm sure the powers that be have very little patience/tolerance for this topic at this point, and we'd hate to lose more valuable members of the community (or lose threads due to locking).



While you are right about having to respect the "rules" of this place, I will miss @Otto Motor and his colorful contributions, if he has been banned.


----------



## handwander

Some buyers getting their ES4s now, so maybe some Japanese impressions soon.

https://twitter.com/blackcatrei/status/996767302036013056


>



https://twitter.com/headphone_metal/status/996701981849800704


>



https://twitter.com/headphone_metal/status/996704284925292545


>


----------



## DocHoliday (May 16, 2018)

I





handwander said:


> Where does one get yellow tips from?
> 
> Preferably to fit Shure sized nozzles..


I pulled mine from a different set of IEMs but here you go.



 

 

You typically need T100 for Shure IEMs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aliexpress.com/item/32845675657.html


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I don't have a ton of experience with KZ products. I bought the ZST when it came out. It was nice and unoffensive. I bought the ZS10. Its decent, but needs eq. Mids too weird, but again unoffensive to me. Got the EDR1 for free and was blown away. Bought another pair with mic for $5. I feel like I shouldn't be this hype over these. I love these. Any of KZ's other bullet style buds worth checking out? 


Unrelated to this thread, Amazon sent me an email letting me know Uiisii CM5 is 40% off so I bought a pair for $12. This Chifi thing is close to consuming my soul and destroying my wallet.  I have like 10 things in my wishlist ready to go whenever I get that empty feeling inside. lol


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I don't have a ton of experience with KZ products. I bought the ZST when it came out. It was nice and unoffensive. I bought the ZS10. Its decent, but needs eq. Mids too weird, but again unoffensive to me. Got the EDR1 for free and was blown away. Bought another pair with mic for $5. I feel like I shouldn't be this hype over these. I love these. Any of KZ's other bullet style buds worth checking out?
> 
> Unrelated to this thread, Amazon sent me an email letting me know Uiisii CM5 is 40% off so I bought a pair for $12. This Chifi thing is close to consuming my soul and destroying my wallet.  I have like 10 things in my wishlist ready to go whenever I get that empty feeling inside. lol



Nice to see the EDR1 can hang with the 'big dogs' aka ZS10 flagship.

It can even be had for under $2 during Aliexpress sales via coupons! I really hope KZ uses the 7mm DD from the EDR1 in some other IEMs. Whatever combination of diaphragm, magnet, voice coil, and tuning they have with that driver is like stumbling upon the lost city of El Dorado...


----------



## handwander

DocHoliday said:


> I
> I pulled mine from a different set of IEMs but here you go.
> 
> 
> ...


Are the ones you pulled foam or silicone? Not a fan of foam but thanks for the link anyway.


----------



## SciOC

Makes you feel like a kid in a candy store doesn't it?  Kinds of gives you a taste of what it's like to be really rich.... 

Also, I finally just read through Slater's info on the banned sellers. Is that available just in list form somewhere?  I appreciate the links but it's kind of hard to follow and remember.

Honestly the history is unimportant to me, but I've seen those names shopping around before and could totally have unknowingly brought them up asking for opinions.  I too will miss Otto, he was...  Outspoken and blunt.  I like that in people.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 16, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Got the EDR1 for free and was blown away. Bought another pair with mic for $5. I feel like I shouldn't be this hype over these. I love these.
> 
> Any of KZ's other bullet style buds worth checking out?



ED3 "Perfection"


 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B012...SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=Granvela+ED3

ED8


 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00Y...dpPl=1&dpID=412wzfjJaGL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1



> Are the ones you pulled foam or silicone? Not a fan of foam but thanks for the link anyway.


The yellow eartips on my HDS3 are silicone but they probably won't fit the Shure's 3mm nozzle. I'm not a fan of foamies either. The only ones I'll tolerate are the round ones.


----------



## Slater (May 16, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I
> I pulled mine from a different set of IEMs but here you go.
> 
> 
> ...



At the time I had my Shure E4c, I didn’t have any tips that would fit (once the stock ones were depleted).

My solution was to use heat shrink tubing on the nozzle to increase the nozzle’s OD. It worked great, and I was able to use any 4mm silicone tip (such as Auvios, Starlines, etc).

I really miss that IEM (I traded it in to 1More, which in a way I regret). Sure it’s considered outdated, but it really sounded great, even when compared to current gear.


----------



## Slater (May 16, 2018)

SciOC said:


> Also, I finally just read through Slater's info on the banned sellers. Is that available just in list form somewhere?  I appreciate the links but it's kind of hard to follow and remember.



*Sellers*:
- Easy Earphones (ie EE)
- ****

*Brands*:
- ****
- DQSM
- ****
- Knockoff/fake products (aka DIY versions, counterfeits, etc)

There are a few other banned sellers/websites, but the above list are most appropriate ones when discussing ChiFi

_P.S. - I also added the above info to the link in my signature, so it will be much easier to access the 'boiled down' list. Thanks for the idea._


----------



## 424358

handwander said:


> Some buyers getting their ES4s now, so maybe some Japanese impressions soon.
> 
> https://twitter.com/blackcatrei/status/996767302036013056
> 
> ...




Baby ZS10s.

I hope they sound good I never tried ES3. But they look promising.


----------



## handwander

misterchao said:


> Baby ZS10s.



Compared:


----------



## Slater

handwander said:


> Compared:



Well don't keep us in suspense! How do the 2 compare to one another?


----------



## handwander (May 17, 2018)

Slater said:


> Well don't keep us in suspense! How do the 2 compare to one another?


Just grabbing these from twitter, not mine! Impressions are better than KS10 so far though it's been a day so not sure how meaningful it is. Vocals apparently better than the ZS10, and someone posted the DD looks to be different than the ZS10 as well. If impressions remain like this I think it will be a good recommendation for the price. Looks like it will fit better than the zs10 as well.

https://twitter.com/slowserow/status/996963057476689920


>


----------



## Bartig

handwander said:


> Some buyers getting their ES4s now, so maybe some Japanese impressions soon.
> 
> https://twitter.com/blackcatrei/status/996767302036013056
> 
> ...





handwander said:


> Compared:


Haha, that picture makes it look like the baby KZ’s are in a birds nest. 

Glad I ordered the ES4 in blue. I would otherwise hardly be able to separate them from each other!


----------



## Turbo AL

handwander said:


> Are the ones you pulled foam or silicone? Not a fan of foam but thanks for the link anyway.



They are made from Peeps.


----------



## allaces305

i really never talk too much on this thread but i read everything... i have the kz zs5 v1 & the kz zs6...i love the zs6...i think its the best kz ever made....ive listened many older models & i say the ed9 & atr are also good but not great.
i wanted to buy the kz zs10 but i'm scared because not only has it been getting 50/50 reviews but its huge and made out of plastic...i'm currently listening to shp9500 w/alpha pads and senn 6xx...i think the zs6 with foam tips and like 500 hours playing off my fiio q1 or straight off my google chromecast audio wifi is the best out of all kz.... its not better than the shp9500 or senn 6xx...but man its close and great in its own ways......its a game of give and take....love this audio game.


----------



## allaces305

the new ed4 and zsa is really interesting .... those combinations should bring two different sound signatures...


----------



## 424358

handwander said:


> Just grabbing these from twitter, not mine! Impressions are better than KS10 so far though it's been a day so not sure how meaningful it is. Vocals apparently better than the ZS10, and someone posted the DD looks to be different than the ZS10 as well. If impressions remain like this I think it will be a good recommendation for the price. Looks like it will fit better than the zs10 as well.
> 
> https://twitter.com/slowserow/status/996963057476689920



Yes!!! I’m even more excited for my ES4s then. If intial impressions are better than zs10 it’s always a good sign. 



allaces305 said:


> i really never talk too much on this thread but i read everything... i have the kz zs5 v1 & the kz zs6...i love the zs6...i think its the best kz ever made....ive listened many older models & i say the ed9 & atr are also good but not great.




Agreed, ZS6 is one of the best KZs.


----------



## Khalid762

Looking to purchase my first kz iem. Should I go for the zs10 or 6 ? 
I mostly listen to hiphop and can't stand sibilance.


----------



## maxxevv

Then ZS6 is definitely NOT your cup of tea. I don't listen to hiphop at all, so I can't say the ZS10 would suit your needs or not.


----------



## Aparker2005

Glad I went with blue es4 also after seeing that picture


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 17, 2018)

@ *Khalid762*ZS10 is good for hip hop lovers, and there is no sibilance. Bass extends low. Plenty of sub bass rumble. For me personally I find male vocals a bit thin. I lowered 2k-4k a bit, raised 20 to 400 a smidge, and it helped some. These iems eq in small amounts pretty well. If you order from AliExpress you get the EDR1 for free with them and those things are really good at hip hop.


----------



## Khalid762

BadReligionPunk said:


> @ *Khalid762*ZS10 is good for hip hop lovers, and there is no sibilance. Bass extends low. Plenty of sub bass rumble. For me personally I find male vocals a bit thin. I lowered 2k-4k a bit, raised 20 to 400 a smidge, and it helped some. These iems eq in small amounts pretty well. If you order from AliExpress you get the EDR1 for free with them and those things are really good at hip hop.




Could I get something better for the price ?


----------



## handwander

Nu


----------



## SciOC (May 17, 2018)

Khalid762 said:


> Could I get something better for the price ?


Zsr would be better honestly.  From the sounds of it the es4 is promising. Lots of people like the tin audio t2.  This might be a stretch due to being a little bright, but the tfz E5 or e3 might be good too.


Also, Why is it called the Ed16 if there are 12 drivers?  Is this the one that was supposed to be 8 BA per side or is that still coming?  Not like I won't buy both, but still...


----------



## B9Scrambler

If anyone wants an ED9 I see they're on sale for only 8 USD here (KZ Official Store) for another 16 hours. Might scoop up a few for Xmas gifts.


----------



## Khalid762

SciOC said:


> Zsr would be better honestly.  From the sounds of it the es4 is promising. Lots of people like the tin audio t2.  This might be a stretch due to being a little bright, but the tfz E5 or e3 might be good too.



For a budget of $50 what would you recommend I get ? Still zsr ?


----------



## SciOC

I've not heard the t2 myself, but the ZSR is definitely a safe bet that I highly doubt you'll be disappointed with, and it's half your budget...


----------



## maxxevv (May 17, 2018)

handwander said:


> Nu



Something wrong with the information listed there though.

The graphic on the case reads "ZS7".  And it shows 2 BA's and not 4 BA's in the second pict. I saw the listing as "ED12" (which is wrong too actually)  on Aliexpress.

But the specifications list seem to be correct: 1DD + 2BA.






https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...128.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.7b8f1939tGiNCd


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

That completely asymmetrical writing on the case of the ZS7/ED16/ED12 was a very odd design choice.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8 (May 17, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> Something wrong with the information listed there though.
> 
> The graphic on the case reads "ZS7".  And it shows 2 BA's and not 4 BA's in the second pict. I saw the listing as "ED12" (which is wrong too actually)  on Aliexpress.
> 
> ...



I think somebody mixed up things. All in all I think it's time for to KZ spruce up their presentation. It's all messed up and I think they might have accidentally leaked info about an upcoming model probably the ZS7, although it's just a speculation on my part.


----------



## 424358

That zs7/ed12 looks like the trn v60


----------



## DocHoliday (May 17, 2018)

handwander said:


> Nu




This ought to be interesting (ED16/ZS7) with it's 2+1 design found in the ZSR. 

I'm glad that KZ had the forethought this time to issue this model with it's own 2-pin connector head instead of just throwing in a cable designed for an older model (ZS3 cable on ZS6 below). 



 


I'll have to pick these up for three reasons:
1) To see how they differ from the ZSR.
2) To get those new cables and see what else they work with.

and most of all

3) because I finally got my wish. 

What wish?

I've been wanting KZ to use the "electric blue" resin from the ZS2 on another IEM. 



 

Despite the ZS2's strident midrange the "electric blue" resin was just stunningly beautiful. It was sort of a heartbreak that their best color got lost in the shuffle by having it debut on an IEM that needed better tuning.



 

For now, someone needs to get their ducks lined in a row and roll it out with the correct model name (ZS7?/ED16?).



 




They should stick with ZS7.




.......and now would be a good time for KZ to release their Star-tipped eartips in clear silicone like they promised a few months ago. They'd be a nice combo with silver cables on the blue. Let's hope that the cable image itself is a faux pas and this IEM will also be shipped with the new braided cable found on the newest crop of KZ's, just with the new connector heads.





.......if not, my TRN silver should work just fine.


----------



## Vestat

Jeeeez... They are going to run out of names soon. Looks like they introduce a new model every week. Waiting for the first review of the zsa and we are already talking about 16BAs and the zs7. There's not even enough time for the shipping before you start dreaming about the new improved model..


----------



## B9Scrambler

I'm not expecting much variation in sound. Just different shells with their own ergonomic benefits. Pick based on price, looks, features (driver count, removable cable, up/down fit style, etc.), and you're good to go. I'm hoping this crazy model spam leads to a very focused lineup for the next wave, once they find out what the people are gravitating towards.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 17, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I'm not expecting much variation in sound. Just different shells with their own ergonomic benefits. Pick based on price, looks, features (driver count, removable cable, up/down fit style, etc.), and you're good to go. I'm hoping this crazy model spam leads to a very focused lineup for the next wave, once they find out what the people are gravitating towards.



Yeah, if all the innards are the same then I'd expect only a slight increase in focus on imaging and a slight decrease in soundstage depth and width.





Hmmmmm.....

It's odd that they made mention of a crossover but made no mention of whether or not the 10mm DD is graphene. The 10mm DD in the ES4 is graphene and the 10mm DD in the ZSR is not. I would have expected this model to sport the Graphene DD if for no other reason than to differentiate it from the ZSR [perhaps tighten the low end and maybe even improve its texture while further improving resolution in the lower midrange (crossover point)].

If they can't even roll out the proper model name (ED16?/ZS7?) upon release then whomever is in charge of marketing needs to find another career......soon!


----------



## 424358

I kind of hope it doesn’t use zs7 name.

Zs5/6 are similar in shape and sound. Are both 2ba/2dd.

To Keep it consistant the next Zs7 should be metal and use 2/2 or something similar.

This reminds me of an updated ZSR. ZSS or something haha


----------



## Slater

Khalid762 said:


> Looking to purchase my first kz iem. Should I go for the zs10 or 6 ?
> I mostly listen to hiphop and can't stand sibilance.



Be safe. Start with the KZ EDR1. There’s zero sibilance, and it’s well suited for hip hop.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Be safe. Start with the KZ EDR1. There’s zero sibilance, and it’s well suited for hip hop.



Or the ED9!


----------



## trellus

Dear lort, I had to unsubscribe from this thread because it moves so rapidly...  but I’ve been reading the last 9 pages ... has anyone received their ZSA yet?


----------



## SciOC

B9Scrambler said:


> Or the ED9!


Why start with just one?  He was looking at spending 50 dollars.  Get the zsr, ed9, edr1, and ate for about $50 total!

My coworkers are really starting to question my sanity with how many pairs arrive weekly lately....


----------



## B9Scrambler

SciOC said:


> Why start with just one?  He was looking at spending 50 dollars.  Get the zsr, ed9, edr1, and ate for about $50 total!
> 
> My coworkers are really starting to question my sanity with how many pairs arrive weekly lately....



Haha, good question! ED9 is a two-in-one deal and imo is a good rep for the general KZ house sound. Not the best of the bunch but it's up there. If he doesn't like the ED9's sig, that dislike might carry over to other models and lead to immense displeasure. Since they're still exceptionally cheap, no love lost if he doesn't like it.


----------



## handwander

misterchao said:


> I kind of hope it doesn’t use zs7 name.
> Zs5/6 are similar in shape and sound. Are both 2ba/2dd.
> To Keep it consistant the next Zs7 should be metal and use 2/2 or something similar.
> This reminds me of an updated ZSR. ZSS or something haha


If they want to be really consistent, maybe the ZS7 will look like the new Campfire Atlas or Comet :^)


----------



## rayliam80

trellus said:


> Dear lort, I had to unsubscribe from this thread because it moves so rapidly...  but I’ve been reading the last 9 pages ... has anyone received their ZSA yet?



Just ordered mine yesterday from KZ Official Store. It's still being processed so it hasn't shipped out yet.


----------



## Slater (May 17, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Jeeeez... They are going to run out of names soon. Looks like they introduce a new model every week. Waiting for the first review of the zsa and we are already talking about 16BAs and the zs7. There's not even enough time for the shipping before you start dreaming about the new improved model..





DocHoliday said:


> If they can't even roll out the proper model name (ED16?/ZS7?) upon release then whomever is in charge of marketing needs to find another career......soon!



Pretty soon they'll have a "Jaws 19 Edition"


----------



## DocHoliday (May 17, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Haha, good question! ED9 is a two-in-one deal and imo is a good rep for the general KZ house sound. Not the best of the bunch but it's up there. If he doesn't like the ED9's sig, that dislike might carry over to other models and lead to immense displeasure. Since they're still exceptionally cheap, no love lost if he doesn't like it.



The ED9 is THE ORIGINAL Chi-Fi bargain. I think I paid $12 back in 2015.

When I first popped them in I couldn't believe I paid $12 for a chrome-plated IEM with interchangeable filters and a durable cable that sounded great. That shield-shaped case just reeled me in, too. 



 

 

 

 

It actually started with the EDSE but two chrome ED9's and one black ED9 later........had to find out more about the company.........and here we are.





Prior to hearing the ED9 I was a fan of SoundMAGIC and the tuning of the original ES18. I still have one pair of working original ES18's which weren't a far cry from the ED9 sound signature , though the ES18 treble was slightly tapered. SoundMAGIC degraded the tuning of the ES18 to a muffled mess just when the EDSE and ED9 came out and the rest is history. 

SoundMAGIC gradually disappeared from my radar. I don't think many people realized the whole "bait 'n switch" but the direct result of that foolishness is I lost respect for them. 



 

Wasn't until the ZS1 and ATE were modified that I figured out that this is common practice in Shenzen.  

Fade to black


----------



## HungryPanda

+1 for ED9 an amazing little iem, I couldn't believe the sound either


----------



## handwander

DocHoliday said:


> The ED9 is THE ORIGINAL Chi-Fi bargain. I think I paid $12 back in 2015.
> When I first popped them in I couldn't believe I paid $12 for a chrome-plated IEM with interchangeable filters and a durable cable that sounded great. That shield-shaped case just reeled me in, too.
> Had to find out more about the company.........and here we are.


Stop frustrating me with those yellow silicone tip photos! I might just buy a pair of akg y20 in yellow and steal them from those.


----------



## zazaboy

Who is getting the KZ zsa just curious .?


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> The ED9 is THE ORIGINAL Chi-Fi bargain. I think I paid $12 back in 2015.
> 
> When I first popped them in I couldn't believe I paid $12 for a chrome-plated IEM with interchangeable filters and a durable cable that sounded great. That shield-shaped case just reeled me in, too.
> 
> ...



Yup, ED9 is a classic. So much so that I just ordered a black one for myself  Sure as heck don't need it. I just want it. No, no I need it. Yup.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Welp, looks like I need to order one ED9 ASAP

Eff u guys


----------



## durwood

zazaboy said:


> Who is getting the KZ zsa just curious .?



Is that you in your avatar raising your hand?


----------



## KainHighwind

Hi guys, what do you think about DZAT DF 10 vs KZ ZSR, I just read some reviews of DZAT DF 10 and looks like it is an awesome earphone, and ZSR is loved by many members in this thread, they are the same price so I don't know what to chose (DF 10 looks so beautiful). I prefer clear and natural sound and listen to mostly pop music, I'm not a basshead and don't like too much treble, balance and natural sound is best for me.

P/s: I read reviews on http://www.thephonograph.net/scores-comparison/ I don't know if this site is accurate, I just saw Rock Zircon got a low score and guess that it is pretty accurate.


----------



## DocHoliday

handwander said:


> Stop frustrating me with those yellow silicone tip photos! I might just buy a pair of akg y20 in yellow and steal them from those.






 

https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Monster-HeartBeats-DiddyBeats-Earphones/dp/B00BWZU4BC


----------



## handwander

DocHoliday said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Monster-HeartBeats-DiddyBeats-Earphones/dp/B00BWZU4BC


Thanks! Wonder if I should spend the money to import these to Japan to use almost solely for photos since they are probably worse than most premium tips...


Spoiler



Yes, I should.


----------



## 424358

trellus said:


> Dear lort, I had to unsubscribe from this thread because it moves so rapidly...  but I’ve been reading the last 9 pages ... has anyone received their ZSA yet?



Ordered mine when it showed up on KZ Official store and it shipped yesterday. Time to wait 20ish days.

Doubt anyone has them since it just released


----------



## DocHoliday

handwander said:


> Thanks! Wonder if I should spend the money to import these to Japan to use almost solely for photos since they are probably worse than most premium tips...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



First try to find these in Japan. You might get lucky.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017...ps+SHE7050&dpPl=1&dpID=41dxuAUxq+L&ref=plSrch


----------



## handwander

From twitter, non-red ES4 photos.



>


----------



## pikachuchu

xxxreyxxx said:


> which spinfit ?



www.spinfiteartip.com

SpinFit Eartip's facebook is having a giveaway which will end in a few days. I don't think a lot of people know about it yet. (i guess that means a much greater chance to win?)


----------



## Bartig

handwander said:


> From twitter, non-red ES4 photos.


Oh my. Ordered those blue ones. Not sure if I can call them pretty.


----------



## Lifted Andreas (May 18, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> +1 for ED9 an amazing little iem, I couldn't believe the sound either



I still have a pair of the ED9 black, one of the best overall cheap IEMs I've ever owned!

Easy going sound, nice construction, perfect for taking out and about. Not a fan of the springy rubber cable though, but at least it doesn't tangle much. Also they're quite heavy due to metal construction.



@B9Scrambler You DO need them!


----------



## ssnjrthgr8 (May 18, 2018)

.


----------



## CoiL

...and I still think ED9 sounds "splashy" and unnatural in highs, no matter what nozzle, tips or mods being used. Typical V-shaped FR also, tthough, quite fun otherwise.


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> ...and I still think ED9 sounds "splashy" and unnatural in highs, no matter what nozzle, tips or mods being used. Typical V-shaped FR also, tthough, quite fun otherwise.



Agreed, it is splashy. However, I bought a newer version for my cousin last year and it was much more controlled up top than my original, early release version. Hoping my new one is too. Seems they changed the drivers from a bio-diaphragm to titanium coated, if the marketing blurbs are to be believed.


----------



## loomisjohnson

KainHighwind said:


> Hi guys, what do you think about DZAT DF 10 vs KZ ZSR, I just read some reviews of DZAT DF 10 and looks like it is an awesome earphone, and ZSR is loved by many members in this thread, they are the same price so I don't know what to chose (DF 10 looks so beautiful). I prefer clear and natural sound and listen to mostly pop music, I'm not a basshead and don't like too much treble, balance and natural sound is best for me.
> 
> P/s: I read reviews on http://www.thephonograph.net/scores-comparison/ I don't know if this site is accurate, I just saw Rock Zircon got a low score and guess that it is pretty accurate.


the dzat is much more comfortable and prettier to look at; they're both easy to drive tho the kzr isolates much better. soundwise i wouldn't describe either as balanced--they both have enhanced low end, though not at basshead levels. most would find the ksr to be bigger sounding and technically better, with superior imaging and layering, but also more colored; the dzat is the more natural sounding, with good overall clarity. both are recommended.


----------



## loomisjohnson

B9Scrambler said:


> Agreed, it is splashy. However, I bought a newer version for my cousin last year and it was much more controlled up top than my original, early release version. Hoping my new one is too. Seems they changed the drivers from a bio-diaphragm to titanium coated, if the marketing blurbs are to be believed.


nice to see you come around on the ed9, which remains unassailable in my pantheon of kzs.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> nice to see you come around on the ed9, which remains unassailable in my pantheon of kzs.



I've always liked it and think it's very good, but the splashiness keeps me from listening to it for any length of time. It's on my recommended KZs list and along with the ATR will be staying there once I finally get around to updating it. ZST and ZS3 will be getting the boot for the ZSR and ZS10. ED10 will need to go as well since it's no longer available  Not sure what I'm going to replace it with just yet.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> ...ED10 will need to go as well since it's no longer available...



Where's it going?


----------



## Pruikki

Hello all!

-Please some one, *clear this up, *i am so confused now, Heres the thing! I got ZSR right, a really nice sounding pair, *what is now the "new" improved better iem from kz* that is improvement over ZSR that i got? zs10? es4? zs7?

*Please, help me understand/choose*, if i were to want to buy something better, what would be a safe bet? just for fun. ZSR is good,* what is even more adanced?* (detailed,soundstage etc)

THANK YOU Headfiers!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Where's it going?



In the "I wish KZ still made these pile" along with the Micro Ring and ANV.


----------



## CoiL

I only wish that current ATE/ATR will stay same SQ and tuning and KZ keeps producing these forever


----------



## Emelya

Pruikki said:


> Hello all!
> 
> -Please some one, *clear this up, *i am so confused now, Heres the thing! I got ZSR right, a really nice sounding pair, *what is now the "new" improved better iem from kz* that is improvement over ZSR that i got? zs10? es4? zs7?


ED16


----------



## Bartig

Pruikki said:


> Hello all!
> 
> -Please some one, *clear this up, *i am so confused now, Heres the thing! I got ZSR right, a really nice sounding pair, *what is now the "new" improved better iem from kz* that is improvement over ZSR that i got? zs10? es4? zs7?
> 
> ...


That is too soon to tell. No one of us has received all three of them yet.


----------



## KipNix (May 18, 2018)

KainHighwind said:


> Hi guys, what do you think about DZAT DF 10 vs KZ ZSR, I just read some reviews of DZAT DF 10 and looks like it is an awesome earphone, and ZSR is loved by many members in this thread, they are the same price so I don't know what to chose (DF 10 looks so beautiful). I prefer clear and natural sound and listen to mostly pop music, I'm not a basshead and don't like too much treble, balance and natural sound is best for me.
> 
> P/s: I read reviews on http://www.thephonograph.net/scores-comparison/ I don't know if this site is accurate, I just saw Rock Zircon got a low score and guess that it is pretty accurate.


I really liked my DZAT DF-10. They were well-balanced. Some say they can be sibilant but I didn't encounter that. Perhaps that's due to the memory foam tips; I dunno. YMMV
The only negative I found was the rubber cord. I lent the pair to somebody and they stopped working after that. It was an AwSh** Moment. 
I never owned ZSR so I cannot answer. 
I just ordered Urbanfun Hybrid, with a better cord, to replace these. We shall see.


----------



## KainHighwind

KipNix said:


> I really liked my DZAT DF-10. They were well-balanced. Some say they can be sibilant but I didn't encounter that. Perhaps that's due to the memory foam tips; I dunno. YMMV
> The only negative I found was the rubber cord. I lent the pair to somebody and they stopped working after that. It was an AwSh** Moment.
> I never owned ZSR so I cannot answer.
> I just ordered Urbanfun Hybrid, with a better cord, to replace these. We shall see.



Do you own any KZ? Do you prefer DF10 over your KZ?


----------



## DocHoliday (May 18, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> In the "I wish KZ still made these pile" along with the Micro Ring and ANV.



In my  "I wish KZ still made these pile" I'd throw the ED8 in with the ED10. The design is polarizing and they are heavy but I listened to my set two nights ago and enjoyed every minute. Lover'ly deeeeep kick to that bass!






Being an early adopter of KZ's has been quite rewarding.
I bought backup pairs for both models but the first pair (for both) are as good as new even with hundreds of hours on each.

Glad to have both!





To me, the ED10's drawback was slightly splashy treble and soundstage lack of depth but it ticked a lot of boxes. 

Popped them in so I could listen to the ED10 theme song right now....


Spoiler


----------



## sino8r

handwander said:


> If they want to be really consistent, maybe the ZS7 will look like the new Campfire Atlas or Comet :^)



I realize you're being sarcastic but those would be beautiful lol!


----------



## gazzington

Has anyone here ever written a comparison of all the kz iems?


----------



## raidensub

gazzington said:


> Has anyone here ever written a comparison of all the kz iems?


I will also want to know.


----------



## durwood (May 18, 2018)

I heard someone say they thought the ZSA would be an upgrade over the ZS6. It doesn't seem like an upgrade. To me the ZSA looks like a beta earphone (which some may say is all KZ models), but the reason I say this is because:
1) "Self developed 8mm driver"-have they used this terminology before or is this just marketing jibberish
2) "upgraded BA", but they don't list the model. We can only assume its a modified 30095...or again jibberish
3) It is not the YZ35 model that promised 1 DD +2BA, and thephonograph hype machine states KZ still plans on releasing a YZ35 variation of this form factor.

Because I seem to have joined the "headphone of the month club"(TM), I am trying to decide if I want to pick up the ES4 or the ZSA. Anyone one else get this feeling the ZSA will not be around as long as the ES4 since the ES4 was a planned/teased release?


----------



## DocHoliday (May 18, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Has anyone here ever written a comparison of all the kz iems?



https://thecontraptionist.blog/category/knowledge-zenith/

I am currently going through many classic KZ's and posting them here on Head-Fi

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-edr1-in-ear-monitor.22987/reviews

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed3-perfection.22988/


More to come.

Durwood


> I heard someone say they thought the ZSA would be an upgrade over the ZS6. It doesn't seem like an upgrade.
> 
> Anyone one else get this feeling the ZSA will not be around as long as the ES4 since the ES4 was a planned/teased release?



I would take the "upgrade over the ZS6" claim with a pinch of salt....correction, pound of salt. I doubt that the single DD used in the ZSA will be as adept at separating sub-bass and mid-bass frequencies as the ZS6's two separate DD's separate said frequencies. It's not impossible but I doubt it's the case. Same goes for the ZSA's single BA for treble and midrange versus the ZS6's separate BA's for said frequencies. 

I'm expecting the ZSA to be a great addition to my KZ collection but until there is enough feedback to make an informed decision it's best to keep definitive statements to nought.



 

Regarding the ZSA being short-lived, I wouldn't give this much thought either since KZ made it clear that they spared no expense to give us well crafted CNC Aluminum housing. 



 

Return on investment dictates that the ZSA should be with us for a while provided KZ continues that which has become synonymous with their brand, exceptional price-to-performance ratio. 

Think about it:
CNC aluminum housing, detachable cables and hopefully great tuning

.....ALL FOR $22!





I'd like to see KZ continue on this path of high quality metal housing. It's one of the factors that set them apart from every other wannabe in the growing sea of budget oriented Chi-Fi brands. KZ actually needs this edge to stay in the forefront. The only reason they haven't been dethroned as "budget king" is because others brands tend to have a one-hit-wonder or two.


----------



## KipNix

I'm seeing KZ ES4 on a Flash Sale at Gearbest right now. It's about $23 Canadian, which means a lower price in USD.


----------



## Zerohour88 (May 18, 2018)

durwood said:


> I heard someone say they thought the ZSA would be an upgrade over the ZS6. It doesn't seem like an upgrade. To me the ZSA looks like a beta earphone (which some may say is all KZ models), but the reason I say this is because:
> 1) "Self developed 8mm driver"-have they used this terminology before or is this just marketing jibberish
> 2) "upgraded BA", but they don't list the model. We can only assume its a modified 30095...or again jibberish
> 3) It is not the YZ35 model that promised 1 DD +2BA, and thephonograph hype machine states KZ still plans on releasing a YZ35 variation of this form factor.
> ...



Best advice I can give is just wait for release before deciding anything. Lots of other IEMs being released from lots of other brands if you're worrying about value. If you're just collecting, then by all means, order away. Announcement and marketing materials doesn't mean a whole lot, especially for chi-fi.

There are a few discontinued models from KZ, so its a bit of a toss. Despite that, you can still order some old models if you're willing to look (and maybe pay a bit more depending on the rarity or your luck).

KZ official store on taobao (well, its tmall, a more verified part of taobao):
https://kzyingyin.tmall.com/categor...5.w4010-13575382658.2.537c312cQOafSA&search=y


----------



## HungryPanda

Just got my ES4's today, took a while to find tips to suit me (Starlines didn't do it yet do on many iems). Once found I'm happy to report KZ treble is back bass is fine, glad to have them


----------



## DocHoliday (May 18, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Just got my ES4's today, took a while to find tips to suit me (Starlines didn't do it yet do on many iems). Once found I'm happy to report KZ treble is back bass is fine, glad to have them



At your earliest convenience. ....

ES3 vs ES4


....please and thank you, Panda!



Spoiler


----------



## HungryPanda (May 18, 2018)

Using these tracks


Spoiler





 



ES4 Bass is not as powerful as ES3
ES4 Mids are more forward than ES3
ES4 Highs are clearer more present than ES3
Soundstage is very similar between both

ES3 is more V shaped than ES4

I like both iems ES3 if bass is your thing and ES4 if you prefer a more balanced earphone


----------



## HungryPanda

KZ ES4 has not had any burn in at this stage though


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> I've always liked it and think it's very good, but the splashiness keeps me from listening to it for any length of time. It's on my recommended KZs list and along with the ATR will be staying there once I finally get around to updating it. ZST and ZS3 will be getting the boot for the ZSR and ZS10. ED10 will need to go as well since it's no longer available  Not sure what I'm going to replace it with just yet.



I have to really drive the ED9 to high volumes to get them splashy, it has always been my assertion everyone over drives them, To me at low levels that splashy is pure detail Of course we know I like my high reqs anyway and many had the same issue with ZST and I love those babies too


----------



## Daftem

Hi, everyone, I'm relatively new here, but I have been reading all this thread haha.

Well... The Es3 has much more powerful bass? 

Wich one do yo prefer?


HungryPanda said:


> KZ ES4 has not had any burn in at this stage though


----------



## mrmoto050 (May 18, 2018)

misterchao said:


> Ordered mine when it showed up on KZ Official store and it shipped yesterday. Time to wait 20ish days.
> 
> Doubt anyone has them since it just released


Deleted


----------



## HungryPanda

Daftem said:


> Hi, everyone, I'm relatively new here, but I have been reading all this thread haha.
> 
> Well... The Es3 has much more powerful bass?
> 
> Wich one do yo prefer?


 ZS10 at the moment


----------



## Daftem

HungryPanda said:


> ZS10 at the moment



But Es3 vs Es4. Which one do you think is better in all aspects.


----------



## HungryPanda

I think the ES3 bass can be a bit overpowering so I would say I prefer the ES4. I prefer the shape and the cable it comes with too


----------



## Daftem

HungryPanda said:


> I think the ES3 bass can be a bit overpowering so I would say I prefer the ES4. I prefer the shape and the cable it comes with too



Nice, bro. thanks for your answers


----------



## Aparker2005

Man the es3 seems like it's gonna be somewhat tough to beat  I like a lot of bass being a drummer but I also like clear, non muddy  not too high highs sound.

My es4 have been stuck in "ready for dispatch  for a few days now. Can't wait to get them in!


----------



## DocHoliday

HungryPanda said:


> Just got my ES4's today, took a while to find tips to suit me (Starlines didn't do it yet do on many iems). Once found I'm happy to report KZ treble is back bass is fine, glad to have them



Which eartips worked best?



HungryPanda said:


> ES4 Bass is not as powerful as ES3
> ES4 Mids are more forward than ES3
> ES4 Highs are clearer more present than ES3
> Soundstage is very similar between both
> ...



Thanks for the quick comparison, Panda. 

A more balanced KZ! Been waiting for one of these for quite some time. ES4 sounds like a winner! 



HungryPanda said:


> ZS10 at the moment



Your thoughts here would be great, do tell!


----------



## Daftem

Somebody knows something about the Zsa?


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## 424358

HungryPanda said:


> ES4 Bass is not as powerful as ES3
> ES4 Mids are more forward than ES3
> ES4 Highs are clearer more present than ES3
> Soundstage is very similar between both
> ...



So like the ZST Pro?


----------



## basshead11 (May 19, 2018)

*My kz zs10 ¿final¿ impressions (100+ hour burn in)*

before we start: i does not have "golden ears". My audiophile experience born with budget chi-fi iems not with expensive IEMS $100+ or more. So i started from the bottom. Any reviewer should start any review with this kind of information because that make a big diference of how you actually read and understand how they appreciate sound.

*Now i have a HD6XX as main desktop headphone. that just as a reference

the best
I think if we are gonna talk about zs10, first we have to talk about how *they perform a multilayered sound*. I read this in a lot of another reviews

This is my first IEM that i truly can tell im feeling that every sound in any frequency range is performing without overlaping other range frequencies. You can notice this A LOT more than other chi-fi iems with multi-driver or hybrid technologies. (I tried kz zs5 v1, Tennmak Pro, Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD, I-Into i8, TIMMKO C630)

I think this is a premium feature but zs10 fails in what i supposed KZ already dominated. And that comes with:


the worst
*Inconsistency*. There is something mysterious about zs10. the sound changes A LOT with the tips. My theory is that some tips make a complete insertion to the ear cavity what blocks the vents of the dynamic driver. I have over 100 hours of burn in with the zs10 and still, sometimes, it has very poor mids and sub-bass. Other times, when I have the perfect fit, they are a delight. I think it's because depending on the tip and the insertion the vent gets blocked or half blocked. The issue is that if it is completely open sub-bass is recessed. If it is completely closed there are bass and sub-bass but ugly mids . The intermediate (half blocked),i think,  is the one that gives the best sound to my ears. However, it is the most difficult to achieve. The same thing about the vent hole is just a theory. I do not know exactly yet what is causing this inconsistency in his performance.


----------



## CYoung234

Here are some initial impressions on the KZ ZS10, which I received about a week ago. I have only a couple hours time on them so far, comparing them to my Tin Audio T2's and my ZS6's. 

I am primarily a musician, so I am looking for lifelike sound, weight, throw, etc.

Material used for this comparison:

CSO/Bernstein Shostakovich Sym. 1 and 7
SNO/Jarvis Prokofiev Sym. 3 and 4
Tears for Fears, Raoul and the Kings of Spain
Jezabels, The Brink

So far, these are my impressions:
Tin Audio T2: Good weight, but not great. Good mids, low end there, but not as present for things like low brass or tympani as I would like. Soundstage is good, not huge. Air and space around instruments is very good. 

KZ ZS6: Surprisingly, not too bright. I do have some age related hearing loss on the high end, so more bat-eared people may react differently! For me, these sound overall quite realistic. Great low end! Mids and highs are to me very realistic. Good weight and presence for brass. Vocals, both female and male sound pretty real. I think the T2 is better with female voices. The ZS6 for male voices. Very good soundstage and sense of air and space. Great detail.

KZ ZS10: Somehow, these are less and more at the same time. Less detail than the ZS6 or T2. Less high end, less bright, but not closed sounding. More weight to strings and brass. Excellent low end. Very good soundstage, sense of air. Female vocals are better than the ZS6 and on par with the T2. Musically, these so far are my favorite of the 3, which is saying a lot, as I love my ZS6's.

This is so far, so further impressions later.


----------



## maxxevv (May 18, 2018)

Very similar to what my impressions are when I compare the 3 too. 

Though I find the ZS6 to be a little fatiguing to listen to for longer than an hour. The T2 similarly but to a lesser extend.  The biggest problem I have with the ZS6 really is the sibilance. Especially for female vocals that have been electronically processed. Listening to certain tracks from The Corrs and Adele can be quite a pain. But surprisingly, my remastered Aretha Franklin tracks from the  70's is really very nice on them. No obvious sibilance at all. 

The T2 is pretty much spot on what are my impressions. But they seem to improve with a little burn-in. Was pretty 'meh' to me out of the box. Left them on pink noise and frequency sweep burn-in for 2 days together with the ZS10 (as my DAC needed it too anyway), It seemed to sound closer to what most people describe of them.  They do have that little bit of sibilance but only on the tracks which are obviously heavily processed.

As I previously wrote, I would describe the ZS10 sound as being pleasant and 'polite',  and to add, plenty of musicality in terms of  layering in the sound. The ZS10 details are there but maybe because of the roll-off in the treble, are not as evident.  I find that you do get that detail in the sound if one increases the volume for them a slight notch. 

Very nice for intimate vocals. And almost completely free of sibilance. I tried and if I could hear sibilance on them, I could hear the same thing on my HD6XX. Which means a defective recording in my books.




CYoung234 said:


> Here are some initial impressions on the KZ ZS10, which I received about a week ago. I have only a couple hours time on them so far, comparing them to my Tin Audio T2's and my ZS6's.
> 
> I am primarily a musician, so I am looking for lifelike sound, weight, throw, etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## pbui44

Any KZ or chi-fi fans in or around the EU might want to take a look at what this member has for sale:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wts-miscellaneous-earphones.878622/

OMG, from the used KZ ZS6 green he has, I basically paid $30 extra just for an apparently rare green-with-lip-model.


----------



## 424358

Man the ZS10 is having mixed reviews. Ill pick one up if they ever go on sale. 

So far the most expensive KZ I got was the ZS6 at $29.

Hopefully ZSA and ES4 are good. From the few reviews of the ES4 it looks promising. I hope its a different sound signature than the usual V shape.


----------



## Bartig

So, apart from the TRN V60 and KZ ES4 I have another IEM coming my way now... the original!


----------



## Dickymint

I have had my KZ ZS10 for about a week now, not properly run in yet but so far I like it a lot, I have reduced upper frequency hearing, so tailing off at the upper registers doesn't bother me. But comparing the ZS10 to the ZS6, I find the ZS6 harsh and aggressive compared to the more laid back approach of the ZS10, the soundstage is much greater with the ZS10 and detail is much more layered and identifiable. What I do find is almost a missing sound area just above the bass frequencies, I found this on a few other IEM's, it is as if they produce lower bass, then missing a set of frequencies then start working again. This as always is just my own personal opinion! I just find these such good value for money, I have spent a lot of money over the years on headphones and these to me, are the best bang for your buck, IMHO.


----------



## Wiljen

Dickymint said:


> I have had my KZ ZS10 for about a week now, not properly run in yet but so far I like it a lot, I have reduced upper frequency hearing, so tailing off at the upper registers doesn't bother me. But comparing the ZS10 to the ZS6, I find the ZS6 harsh and aggressive compared to the more laid back approach of the ZS10, the soundstage is much greater with the ZS10 and detail is much more layered and identifiable. What I do find is almost a missing sound area just above the bass frequencies, I found this on a few other IEM's, it is as if they produce lower bass, then missing a set of frequencies then start working again. This as always is just my own personal opinion! I just find these such good value for money, I have spent a lot of money over the years on headphones and these to me, are the best bang for your buck, IMHO.



Glad to hear I am not the only one to see the massive recess in the lower mids.  That confirms it wasn't just a pair with one of the Mid- BAs that didnt get connected for some reason.  Too many people like that V shaped signature so much that they ignore the complete absence of some of those middle frequencies and if you listen to orchestral or 12 string guitar and the like you really need those.   While the Zs10 may be more polite than the Zs6, it still has the V Tuning and possibly even more severely recessed lower mids than any of the other recent Kzs. 

For those not hearing this, put on a duet, something like Tom Petty and Stevie Nicks  Stop dragging my heart around and listen to how far in front of Tom Stevie appears to be.


----------



## Dickymint

Wiljen said:


> Glad to hear I am not the only one to see the massive recess in the lower mids.  That confirms it wasn't just a pair with one of the Mid- BAs that didnt get connected for some reason.  Too many people like that V shaped signature so much that they ignore the complete absence of some of those middle frequencies and if you listen to orchestral or 12 string guitar and the like you really need those.   While the Zs10 may be more polite than the Zs6, it still has the V Tuning and possibly even more severely recessed lower mids than any of the other recent Kzs.
> 
> For those not hearing this, put on a duet, something like Tom Petty and Stevie Nicks  Stop dragging my heart around and listen to how far in front of Tom Stevie appears to be.



Don't get me wrong, it is not extremely bad and it sounds more like a section of the bass frequencies more than the mids. The mids with my ZS10 sound so clear and detailed but it's maybe more the upper mids that I am hearing. It appears almost like a "suck out" somewhere in the lower frequencies but otherwise a wonderful piece of kit!


----------



## CYoung234

Wiljen said:


> Glad to hear I am not the only one to see the massive recess in the lower mids.  That confirms it wasn't just a pair with one of the Mid- BAs that didnt get connected for some reason.  Too many people like that V shaped signature so much that they ignore the complete absence of some of those middle frequencies and if you listen to orchestral or 12 string guitar and the like you really need those.   While the Zs10 may be more polite than the Zs6, it still has the V Tuning and possibly even more severely recessed lower mids than any of the other recent Kzs.
> 
> For those not hearing this, put on a duet, something like Tom Petty and Stevie Nicks  Stop dragging my heart around and listen to how far in front of Tom Stevie appears to be.



In my listening tests, I had a lot of symphonic music that I am very familiar with, and I did not notice any real dropout. Can you describe what frequency range you are talking about? I can test later with the Bink audio frequency flacs.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 19, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I only wish that current ATE/ATR will stay same SQ and tuning and KZ keeps producing these forever





 

Looks like the uniformity of the sound signature you discovered in the ATR and ATE may be a result of KZ pulling the ATR's ABS dynamic driver and installing the ATE's Copper driver. 

If I remember correctly you discovered that both drivers were identical. Is that correct?

Please note the information in the following review:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews#review-20130

The drivers were definitely different when the ATR was originally released. It appears not to be the case now. I'll have to order a new set of ATR and ATE to compare to my original ATR and my ATE(ii).

Share your thoughts when you can.

Thanks


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## Dickymint

CYoung234 said:


> In my listening tests, I had a lot of symphonic music that I am very familiar with, and I did not notice any real dropout. Can you describe what frequency range you are talking about? I can test later with the Bink audio frequency flacs.



The sub bass is there, the normal bass frequencies are there its just the bit between the bass and the start of the midrange that seems as if it is missing. I just don't seem to be able to explain it very well, sorry.


----------



## TheVortex

According to Hill Audio, the KZ ED16 will initially be available for Chinese residents only. Wonder how long it will take Gearbest and AliExpress to get stock and with it being a triple driver model, will it be better than the ZSR?


----------



## basshead11

Dickymint said:


> The sub bass is there, the normal bass frequencies are there its just the bit between the bass and the start of the midrange that seems as if it is missing. I just don't seem to be able to explain it very well, sorry.


Hmm this sounds like a bad-seal problem. Try with big tips. For me zs10 is not deep as zs5 but more punchy and bassy enough.


----------



## CYoung234

Wiljen said:


> Glad to hear I am not the only one to see the massive recess in the lower mids.  That confirms it wasn't just a pair with one of the Mid- BAs that didnt get connected for some reason.  Too many people like that V shaped signature so much that they ignore the complete absence of some of those middle frequencies and if you listen to orchestral or 12 string guitar and the like you really need those.   While the Zs10 may be more polite than the Zs6, it still has the V Tuning and possibly even more severely recessed lower mids than any of the other recent Kzs.
> 
> For those not hearing this, put on a duet, something like Tom Petty and Stevie Nicks  Stop dragging my heart around and listen to how far in front of Tom Stevie appears to be.



As an update, I grabbed a copy of this track to have a listen. First, Stevie and Tom are singing exactly the same notes in their solo portions. In other words, the same fundamental frequencies. The only real difference between male and female voices is in their overtone structure, the harmonics at multiples of the fundamental frequency. To me, this track showed me two things when I compared my Tin Audio T2 to the ZS10. First, the ZS10 has a larger soundstage. The beginning of the track has rhythm guitar in the far right, and this has a better, larger soundstage on the ZS10 than on the T2. My listening earlier, particularly on the Shostakovich recording by the Chicago Symphony confirmed this. For those who are interested, this recording, particularly the 1st Symphony, sounds the most like the CSO live of any recording I have ever heard. I am very familiar with Symphony Center in Chicago, where this was recorded. I also did not hear any head stage differences in the voices either on the T2 or ZS10. Both were at the same basic position whether they were singing separately or together. Second, the ZS10 has better instrument spacing and air than the T2, at least on my setup, which was my Asus Zenbook with a FIIO Q1 DAC/amp. I am using the stock tips on the ZS10 and Tennmak Whirlwinds on the T2.

So, to close, another poster suggested that what you were hearing may be due to a bad seal. I would tend to agree. I do not hear any suckout or overly pronounced V shape in the ZS10, certainly not in the frequency ranges you were describing. Yes, they are more V shaped than the T2, but it is not objectionable to me. In fact, I tend to prefer that, particularly for acoustic instrument music.


----------



## Wiljen

i'm going to borrow a friends Zs10 and compare.  I am really wondering if mine have a QC issue.


----------



## B9Scrambler

They're probably just not your jam, and that's okay.


----------



## HerrXRDS

For me ZS10 makes the female vocals sound weird, especially on metal tracks. Like someone shoved some material in an over-amplified mid range speaker to bring it to level with the bass and highs. It adds to many low mids in a weird way that make it sound muffled while still very forward. If I switch from them to my reference headphones, the vocals sound like I just god rid of some water from my ears and everything sounds clear again. They do have amazing separation and mostly instrumental songs sound great, but I do not enjoy listening to metal on them or even songs like Sia-Elastic heart. The voice sounds weird, somehow muffled compared to any of my other IEMs or headphones, neutral or fun.


----------



## CYoung234

HerrXRDS said:


> For me ZS10 makes the female vocals sound weird, especially on metal tracks. Like someone shoved some material in an over-amplified mid range speaker to bring it to level with the bass and highs. It adds to many low mids in a weird way that make it sound muffled while still very forward. If I switch from them to my reference headphones, the vocals sound like I just god rid of some water from my ears and everything sounds clear again. They do have amazing separation and mostly instrumental songs sound great, but I do not enjoy listening to metal on them or even songs like Sia-Elastic heart. The voice sounds weird, somehow muffled compared to any of my other IEMs or headphones, neutral or fun.



I will check out your comments. Elastic Heart is a pretty edgy track anyhow - some of Sia's stuff is recorded amazingly well, but Elastic Heart seems a little over produced or something. But, I will listen to stuff like that some more to see if I can hear what you are hearing. I do not listen to metal or EDM, so not sure what to say there...


----------



## Emelya

TheVortex said:


> According to Hill Audio, the KZ ED16 will initially be available for Chinese residents only. Wonder how long it will take Gearbest and AliExpress to get stock and with it being a triple driver model, will it be better than the ZSR?


ED16 is already available on AliExpress


----------



## handwander (May 20, 2018)

edit: RIP, see below post.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

handwander said:


> ZS10 mod with a switch to turn on and off each driver individually lol. Would be interesting to play with.
> 
> https://twitter.com/kosodatezamurai/status/989144446888394753



This was already posted in here once


----------



## WalterTorino (May 20, 2018)

Offtop. Del.


----------



## rfsux (May 22, 2018)

I listen to the ZS10 everyday, for a month now, and do not want to stop.


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## TheVortex (May 20, 2018)

WalterTorino said:


> A little bit offtop.
> Everybody who want a massive bass and very good sound quality with the design that very similar to the zs5/6 - i recommend you to take a look on the new RevoNext QT2.



I own one of these but this is a product from **** so you can't post it here.


----------



## WalterTorino

TheVortex said:


> I own one of these but this is a product from **** so you can't post it here.


Sorry, deleted.
Can you please describe your experience in private message?


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## HungryPanda

TheVortex said:


> I own one of these but this is a product from xxxxxx so you can't post it here.


Please edit your post and remove name for the sake of this thread


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## TheVortex

WalterTorino said:


> Sorry, deleted.
> Can you please describe your experience in private message?



Sure, message me.


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## CoiL (May 20, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Looks like the uniformity of the sound signature you discovered in the ATR and ATE may be a result of KZ pulling the ATR's ABS dynamic driver and installing the ATE's Copper driver.
> 
> If I remember correctly you discovered that both drivers were identical. Is that correct?
> 
> ...



Yes, I have modded and opened many ATR`s and ATE`s and last ones I got (about 2 months back) were both using same ATE red shelled driver. Also, ATR& ATE nozzle inner diameter and shape are exactly same. I tested them head-to-head with different music and found no difference in sound.
ATE SQ has been most consistent in KZ family, with only slight change to better. I have 4 pairs of ATE and 2 ATR as backup and modding, so, won`t be bying any other so soon.

Btw, I read Your review and I don`t think they lack much micro-detail nor do I find them mids-recessed (one of the best midrange KZs actually). 
Have You opened covers of You ATR ? Can You say which color is PCB on back of driver?
Don`t turn notice on those advertisement pics - ATR/ATE drivers don`t look exactly same as shown on pics.

ATE/ATR requirements to sound best they can do:
* remove nozzle grills.
* use wide-bore tips.
* push the tip totally down against the shell with tip edge being on level with nozzle edge.
* use better cable (lower impedance) as stock is around 0.8-1 Ohm.
* amp them!


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## tzincbg (May 20, 2018)

Hello. I now have KZ ATR and KZ ZS3.
I like the ATR more. Powerfull bass, especially with Viper 4 Android - Dynamic  system - high end headphones.
The highs are nice and not piercing at all.

ZS3 - I like that they have more detail. But the highs are too much for me.
They fit me well only with memory foam tips. I use the longest ones and I have reduced everything above 5khz with an equalizer. But still the highs are a bit too much for me.
Which KZ (or other) do you think I will like next?
Zs 5, ZS 6 - I guess *NOT. *

*Maybe Zsr or ZS10? *


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## Bartig

tzincbg said:


> Hello. I now have KZ ATR and KZ ZS3.
> I like the ATR more. Powerfull bass, especially with Viper 4 Android - Dynamic  system - high end headphones.
> The highs are nice and not piercing at all.
> 
> ...


No, not one of those. Both are not known for their spectacular amount of highs, but the ZS3 has even less emphasis on the highs.


----------



## tzincbg

tzincbg said:


> Hello. I now have KZ ATR and KZ ZS3.
> I like the ATR more. Powerfull bass, especially with Viper 4 Android - Dynamic  system - high end headphones.
> The highs are nice and not piercing at all.
> 
> ...



Which two you mean? The first two? 
What about the second two?


----------



## themindfreak

tzincbg said:


> Hello. I now have KZ ATR and KZ ZS3.
> I like the ATR more. Powerfull bass, especially with Viper 4 Android - Dynamic  system - high end headphones.
> The highs are nice and not piercing at all.
> 
> ...


In all honesty, I cannot think of any KZ that has lesser highs than the ZS3


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## Makahl

themindfreak said:


> In all honesty, I cannot think of any KZ that has lesser highs than the ZS3



+1
Maybe he meant ES3 instead of ZS3? But ZS3 QC is the most problematic so who knows if he got a lemon.


----------



## paulindss (May 21, 2018)

*AREN'T PEOPLE MISSING THE POINT OF ZS10 ??*




I don't dissagre with the average descriprition of the sound. As a little play with the equaliser shows that the sound is indeed v-shaped with a little treble roll of.

But, I posted a very positive impression a few days ago in the sub-100$ thread and some people seemed relieved. Let'me share with you guys to.

I was'nt expecting much from zs10, because of the mixed reviews. But at the first look i was pretty impressed. Really. I said "everything sounds big and tight" no artificial timbre like zst, or sibilance.
The thing is, i never heard zs5 or zs6, nor zsr, that will arrive anytime soon. So that's why i was impressed, but. After ABing zs10 with my bgvp ds1, tin audio t2, and UiiSii Cm5. I still find zs10 impressive. I keep my words, i am not selling this one. They worth. If i sell, i buy it again, and get other iem. But i'll certainly keep zs10 in my collection. If you look for a detailed review. I recommend @B9Scrambler i agree with all of his positive words on these.

People report them as "dark". For the 33$ i payed. Dark does'nt make justice for this iem. "Bassy, bigger, and detailed" sounds better. The treble roll of doesn't hide the cymbals or details. When i eq the treble. I hear them more, still no sibilance. But, in stock, all of the details are still there. The sound is tight, the only downside in precision is the bass, smooth, it could get more texture. They are bassy, with body covering throug the whole sound, but, they aren't too much warm tho. The sub-mid range are recessed as reported. Wich doesn't make the sound really warm.

Quoting @B9Scrambler - ''Leading into the ZS10’s mid-range sees improvements in my opinion. The middle and lower mid-range are recessed with a nice raise in the upper mids that gives vocalists who tend to sing in the upper registers more presence. The overall presentation is reasonably thick and robust with a fair bit of warmth to it, *achieving a tonality and timbre that is much more natural than you’ll find on most other KZs,* including the ZSR"'

Comparing with other iem's like bgvp ds1 and tin audio. Sure the mid range is recessed. But they are natural what is a HUGE step by kz. I eq them a little and they shine, beig louder. About the treble, seriously, no reason to worry at all. The only iem i have that manages to have a very bright treble without having a trade-off in fatigue is tin audion t2... how many iems can do that ? The kz was happy in toning down the treble. The crossover and four ba's makes for it. Making all details present and giving a nice sense os stage. The bgvp ds1 also has a treble roll of. And are less well balanced than zs10 for my personal taste, and they go for 50$.

Now the nicest part. Imaging, layering and soundtage. These qualities are exactly what makes the zs10 well rounded. Tha bassy signature works giving body to the whole sound. Without compromising the timbre. The mid range goes tight, natural altought recessed, and details are there to be heard. This is the work of the crossover and five drivers. Awesome layering and depth.

The zs10 is a consumer oriented iem, for me, they totally makes for the price they go, around 30-50$. Comparing them to direct competition. T2 and DS1. There is no comparision at all with the good but cheaper cm5.... No huge drawbacks. If you like bass, you are at home. Even if The bass could be better, again, @B9Scrambler says, and i  agree: "their least impressive aspect: bass. The ZS10 is on the bassy side, though not to the point it will please bassheads. The mid-range and treble regions being dialed back helps push forward the low frequencies. The ZS10’s low end is swole, but reasonably quick with a realistic decay, and yet a bit too smooth in texture. It counters these foibles with a hefty, thundering sub-bass presence and a soft but prominent *mid-bass that dips off quickly as the mid-range BAs take over*" But, the bassy flavour together with all of other qualitues out of the box is exactly what hook-up for me...

WIth my experience in chi-fi, zs10 is far from being a mediocre iem.


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## B9Scrambler

@paulindss Glad you're liking them. I really don't understand the general dislike against the ZS10, but, to each their own. Not even my preferred signature, but I still think it's quite good. Could use some refinement, namely less and more impactful mid-bass, and a more even mid-range, but realistically it's way better than it should have been given what you're getting for the price.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what other brands can bring to the table. As far as I know, the ZS10 doesn't have any *direct *competition, that being another 5 driver hybrid with crossover for under 50 USD.


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## paulindss

B9Scrambler said:


> @paulindss Glad you're liking them. I really don't understand the general dislike against the ZS10, but, to each their own. Not even my preferred signature, but I still think it's quite good. Could use some refinement, namely less and more impactful mid-bass, and a more even mid-range, but realistically it's way better than it should have been given what you're getting for the price.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to seeing what other brands can bring to the table. As far as I know, the ZS10 doesn't have any *direct *competition, that being another 5 driver hybrid with crossover for under 50 USD.



I am suspect to talk about mid-bass. I like it in my iem's. And about the mid range. Eq a little in the mids works perfect WHEN i feel like it would add to experience. No distiotion at all. People should try. So basically zs10 is a sweet spot for me.


----------



## B9Scrambler

paulindss said:


> I am suspect to talk about mid-bass. I like it in my iem's. And about the mid range. Eq a little in the mids works perfect WHEN i feel like it would add to experience. No distiotion at all. People should try. So basically zs10 is a sweet spot for me.



Good point. I much prefer the bass to be skewed towards sub-bass, so when the mid-bass is boosted it can be annoying. My equivalent to those that dislike boosted treble. That said, I enjoy the ZS10 as-is, and have been using it pretty consistently since the review was posted. That's not something I do with most earphones, and considering what I have on hand to listen to whenever I want, should say a lot about what I think of it.


----------



## vladstef (May 21, 2018)

paulindss said:


> *AREN'T PEOPLE MISSING THE POINT OF ZS10 ??*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is a solid counterpart to what most people (including me) are saying about ZS10.
Looking beyond sound quality for a second, the biggest issue I'm having with KZ as a company is that they have been able to produce extremely cheap but solid drivers yet they just keep shoving them in the first shells that come to their attention, or copy some, who cares.
With just a little bit of tuning attention and some additional tips/case, ZS10 would've been a 200$ IEM, because the potential is there. But here is the thing, same thing can be said about ZS5v1.

In this shape, ZS10 and ZS5v1 were a near miss for me and ultimately I couldn't tolerate their mistakes but I still believe that KZ is the future of budget audio, well, could be if they actually tried a bit harder. I can't say this about Tin Audio for example, they just haven't existed long enough nor can they produce cheap BA drivers (which is KZ's biggest success imho) nor are they as popular as KZ.


----------



## paulindss

vladstef said:


> This is a solid counterpart to what most people (including me) are saying about ZS10.
> Looking beyond sound quality for a second, the biggest issue I'm having with KZ as a company is that they have been able to produce extremely cheap but solid drivers yet they just keep shoving them in the first shells that come to their attention, or copy some, who cares.
> With just a little bit of tuning attention and some additional tips/case, ZS10 would've been a 200$ IEM, because the potential is there. But here is the thing, same thing can be said about ZS5v1.
> 
> In this shape, ZS10 and ZS5v1 were a near miss for me and ultimately I couldn't tolerate their mistakes but I still belive that KZ is the future of budget audio, well, could be if they actually tried a bit harder. I can't say this about Tin Audio for example, they just haven't existed long enough nor can they produce cheap BA drivers (which is KZ's biggest success imho) nor are they as popular as KZ.



I think the good implementation of crossover together with the individual channels of ba's that can be seen in techmanz tear apart in YouTube. Is a solid step for kz. Some people suggested that the 8mm driver would give a better bass responser than this 10mm. I have good hopes for the future of kz to. As well as i agree with you point of view. Too much redundant models, etc...


----------



## MDH12AX7

paulindss said:


> I think the good implementation of crossover together with the individual channels of ba's that can be seen in techmanz tear apart in YouTube. Is a solid step for kz. Some people suggested that the 8mm driver would give a better bass responser than this 10mm. I have good hopes for the future of kz to. As well as i agree with you point of view. Too much redundant models, etc...


Speaking of 8mm dynamic, I am anxiously waiting for my KZ ZSA's!


----------



## Aparker2005

Es4 still stuck in ready for dispatch. Does it take a week or more to move from that status? Haven't had one stay that long yet


----------



## maxxevv

paulindss said:


> *AREN'T PEOPLE MISSING THE POINT OF ZS10 ??*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think most people who did not respond well to the ZS10 bought on the pre-formed notion that it would have an energetic, bright signature similar to the ZS5 and ZS6 that came before as KZ's TOTL models.  And most who do have this notion also enjoy the previous models mainly due to the particular types of music they listen to, which happen to be synergistic with the sound signature of the ZS5 and ZS6.  But these models are not without their flaws.  Outside of certain genres, they do not really bring out the best in the music as a good set of speakers or headphones should.  I never really realised that until I listened to some of these music using full sized headphones such as the HD6XX that I have. 

I think where the ZS10 is an improvement on the previous models is the sense of separation and layering in certain forms of music. Mostly I find in delicately performed pieces be it vocal or instrumental which has very subtle 'virbrato' in the vocal chords and strings. It brought the detail and depth to these which I didn't realise previously were in the recordings. 
For examples, try Tchaikovsky's violin Concerto played by David Ostrakh under the baton of Eugene Ormandy.  If you're familiar with classical music, you'll recognise why Ostrakh. 
Similarly, Jacqueline du Pre's Dvorak Cello Concerto recording under EMI.  
I was pleasantly delighted to find these details which I had never previously picked up. 

Make no mistake, but I still stand by my previous statement that the ZS6 is wonderful for instrumental music, be it acoustic playing or full blown symphony orchestra. Just that the ZS10 brings out that extra subtlety in certain areas never previously heard in the ZS6. 

Vocals wise, I'm not so sure which be suitable for the most of the audience on these boards, but the one that stood out for me was chinese diva *蔡琴 's  "被遗忘的时光" in DSD *recording.

If you have the chance, give these tracks in FLAC or DSD quality a run and do an A/B using the ZS5 and ZS6, perhaps you'll pick up  the difference in the ZS10 and the direction which KZ was pointing it at.  "Refinement" rather than "Energetic Fun". 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCxtagXLzP8


----------



## fluteloop

Slater said:


> I am hoping they are stuffing in the largest diameter dynamic driver that will fit into that big ol' round housing!
> 
> The 15mm graphene driver from a certain 'metal-shelled earbud with MMCX connector' would be great!



Preach! Preach!


----------



## SciOC

vladstef said:


> This is a solid counterpart to what most people (including me) are saying about ZS10.
> Looking beyond sound quality for a second, the biggest issue I'm having with KZ as a company is that they have been able to produce extremely cheap but solid drivers yet they just keep shoving them in the first shells that come to their attention, or copy some, who cares.
> With just a little bit of tuning attention and some additional tips/case, ZS10 would've been a 200$ IEM, because the potential is there. But here is the thing, same thing can be said about ZS5v1.
> 
> In this shape, ZS10 and ZS5v1 were a near miss for me and ultimately I couldn't tolerate their mistakes but I still belive that KZ is the future of budget audio, well, could be if they actually tried a bit harder. I can't say this about Tin Audio for example, they just haven't existed long enough nor can they produce cheap BA drivers (which is KZ's biggest success imho) nor are they as popular as KZ.


I think this is true, the zs10 is definitely good for the price, but I think some people are really hoping for a true giant killer out of kz and are disappointed when the set they get is just "good for the price" or not as good as a cheaper kz set...

The zs10 Strikes me as a poor man's brainwavz b400.   If they spent some more time tuning they could have had something really really great.   Instead they seem to spam everyone with concepts hoping one will be lightning in a bottle.

They need to focus a bit more on having a coherent  product line and not mass produce every prototype they make.  The zs10 definitely feels like a prototype and not a finished product....   It's proof of concept.  Now if they'd just take the next step here to polish this concept before they jump to their next idea (ie. 16ba set)....


----------



## 424358

Aparker2005 said:


> Es4 still stuck in ready for dispatch. Does it take a week or more to move from that status? Haven't had one stay that long yet


Where did you order? Mine shipped the day after I ordered them


----------



## 424358

MDH12AX7 said:


> Speaking of 8mm dynamic, I am anxiously waiting for my KZ ZSA's!



Me too. I have I hunch it will be a baby ZS6 or similar.  They are in the mail along with es4 and ZSR 

I still need to get ZST Pros as I returned them and got the regular ZST. But they are not like I remember. There is much difference between them he ZST and ZST Pro


----------



## Slater

SciOC said:


> I think this is true, the zs10 is definitely good for the price, but I think some people are really hoping for a true giant killer out of kz and are disappointed when the set they get is just "good for the price" or not as good as a cheaper kz set...
> 
> The zs10 Strikes me as a poor man's brainwavz b400.   If they spent some more time tuning they could have had something really really great.   Instead they seem to spam everyone with concepts hoping one will be lightning in a bottle.
> 
> They need to focus a bit more on having a coherent  product line and not mass produce every prototype they make.  The zs10 definitely feels like a prototype and not a finished product....   It's proof of concept.  Now if they'd just take the next step here to polish this concept before they jump to their next idea (ie. 16ba set)....



Yeah, as @Otto Motor has kind of summed up in the past, KZs are basically 'meat and potatoes for the working man' IEMs. Not starving college ramen noodles-grade gear (like Rock Zircons), but certainly not filet mignon with crab oscar level stuff.

If you are OK with a nice hot and juicy In and Out 2x2 with Animal Style fries, then you will be perfectly happy with KZ IEMs. The people that have the delusion that KZs are somehow lobster flambe with cognac cream sauce, then you're going to be sorely disappointed.


----------



## 424358

Slater said:


> Yeah, as @Otto Motor has kind of summed up in the past, KZs are basically 'meat and potatoes for the working man' IEMs. Not starving college ramen noodles-grade gear (like Rock Zircons), but certainly not filet mignon with crab oscar level stuff.
> 
> If you are OK with a nice hot and juicy In and Out 2x2 with Animal Style fries, then you will be perfectly happy with KZ IEMs. The people that have the delusion that KZs are somehow lobster flambe with cognac cream sauce, then you're going to be sorely disappointed.



I wager the ZS6 shoot at least to products in the $100 range. I strongly prefer my ZS6 over pinnacle PX. For 1/3rd the price and 200% the quality. 

If pinnacle PX are lobster flambé with cognac cream sauce, they aren’t but the are also highly recommended as well, then I’m delusional as well.


----------



## Aparker2005 (May 21, 2018)

misterchao said:


> Where did you order? Mine shipped the day after I ordered them



They shipped, but they've been stuck in this ready for dispatch for nearly 2 weeks now


----------



## CoiL (May 21, 2018)

Bartig said:


> No, not one of those. Both are not known for their spectacular amount of highs, but the ZS3 has even less emphasis on the highs.





themindfreak said:


> In all honesty, I cannot think of any KZ that has lesser highs than the ZS3


All my 3x ZS3`s that I got from GB for 4$ also have quite piercing highs and very V-shaped signature, with boomy/muddy bass and recessed mids. No matter what tips being used.
Only early (matte) version ZS3 were reported quite good SQ.


----------



## Zerohour88

Aparker2005 said:


> xxxxxy  They shipped, but they've been stuck in this ready for dispatch for nearly 2 weeks now



please remove any mention of the banned seller, you can check @Slater signature on the list and reasons why they are banned


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Slater said:


> Yeah, as @Otto Motor has kind of summed up in the past, KZs are basically 'meat and potatoes for the working man' IEMs. Not starving college ramen noodles-grade gear (like Rock Zircons), but certainly not filet mignon with crab oscar level stuff.
> 
> If you are OK with a nice hot and juicy In and Out 2x2 with Animal Style fries, then you will be perfectly happy with KZ IEMs. The people that have the delusion that KZs are somehow lobster flambe with cognac cream sauce, then you're going to be sorely disappointed.



Oscar level stuff? I just heard my name  and I'm far from rich


----------



## themindfreak

CoiL said:


> All my 3x ZS3`s that I got from GB for 4$ also have quite piercing highs and very V-shaped signature, with boomy/muddy bass and recessed mids. No matter what tips being used.
> Only early (matte) version ZS3 were reported quite good SQ.


Hmm mine was the non matte version. I guess it seems to be a case of different hearing perception of the ZS3. From my memory the ZS3 was thick sounding as hell and I had to focus my hearing just to hear the treble and mids


----------



## MyPants (May 21, 2018)

misterchao said:


> I wager the ZS6 shoot at least to products in the $100 range. I strongly prefer my ZS6 over pinnacle PX. For 1/3rd the price and 200% the quality.
> 
> If pinnacle PX are lobster flambé with cognac cream sauce, they aren’t but the are also highly recommended as well, then I’m delusional as well.


See the Pinnacle P1/PX aren't lobster either. They're like Cheesecake Factory or just north of that. If you want lobster in IEM form you're spending $1-2k for CA Andromedas or Noble Kaiser Encores.
That being being said, the ZS6 is indeed punching well above its price.


----------



## Wiljen

Got to listen to two more samples of the Zs10 today and while the others have recessed mids they are nowhere near as bad as the pair I received.  All three of us agreed that if we hadn't looked we would not have thought it was the same model as the other two.  Now I have to get another so I can dissect and compare.


----------



## Slater (May 21, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Got to listen to two more samples of the Zs10 today and while the others have recessed mids they are nowhere near as bad as the pair I received.  All three of us agreed that if we hadn't looked we would not have thought it was the same model as the other two.  Now I have to get another so I can dissect and compare.



Ouch, KZ QC strikes again!

My guess is 1 or both of the midrange BAs are dead or there’s a wiring problem.

I’d contact the seller and see if you can get them swapped out. Not sure how you’d ‘prove’ that just the midrange is wonky though, as sites like Aliexpress and Gearbest ask for video proof of the problem. It would show up on FR measurements, assuming you could get access to a measurement setup.


----------



## RvTrav

How has the ED15 been forgotten so quickly.  At the end of March I ordered the ZS10 and ED15.  My ZS10 still has not arrived but I received the ED15s several weeks ago and have spent quite a bit of time with them.   Although I am not a bass head I am finding these heavy bass earphones to be very addictive.  Before Head-fiers  start receiving the ES4, ED16 and ZSA I wanted to give you my thoughts on the ED15.  I purchased the black ED15 and it is an attractive well built earphone with KZs upgraded cable (not detachable).  Early into my first listening session with the ED15 it was very evident that the bass was the star of this earphone.  Nothing ruins my enjoyment of an earphone quicker than bloated bass that bleeds into the mids.  The bass on the ED15 is very big and yet very well controlled and does not bleed into the mids.  The bass is not only big but it also goes very deep and has a richness to it that I am finding very enjoyable. At times you can feel the bass of the ED15 through your entire body.   Although the bass is the star the mids and treble seem well proportioned and both have good clarity.  I do not find the treble to be overly bright but when I received them and played my test tracks for sibilance I noticed that they were quite sibilant  (also noted by B9Scrambler) .  I am pleased to say however that after some use and a brief burn in period I have found that these tracks now only reveal minimal sibilance.   If you are looking for a fun earphone that is a little different than KZs other recent releases and would like to experience some very big yet rich and controlled bass that allows the mids and treble to join in then you might want to consider the ED15.


----------



## zazaboy

Any news about kz zsa.. Btw I hate companys that change there drivers or has qc issues.. Due the high demand...


----------



## Zerohour88

zazaboy said:


> Any news about kz zsa.. Btw I hate companys that change there drivers or has qc issues.. Due the high demand...



Any company that ships a significant number of products will have QC problems. Even Dita and Campfire Audio have QC problems despite their high price. Heck, most recent is the crap build problems on my Rose North Forest (have to jiggle the driver sometimes to make it work). Until somehow everyone gets a lemon or non-working unit, its better to redirect the problem the seller and try to negotiate a refund/replacement.

Driver change? Other than the last instance of ATE/ATR series and the ZS5v1 fiasco, I've no reason to believe they're doing it for malicious or greedy intent, just misunderstanding what people want and implementing variations badly.

Complaining about stuff like these is like beating a dead horse, its boring and not really conducive to the discussion.

No one received their ZSA yet, so far as we've seen.


----------



## CoiL (May 21, 2018)

themindfreak said:


> Hmm mine was the non matte version. I guess it seems to be a case of different hearing perception of the ZS3. From my memory the ZS3 was thick sounding as hell and I had to focus my hearing just to hear the treble and mids


About hearing perception... I think no. I`m well referenced with other head-fi members and have many KZ`s and some other good IEMs.
Also my source gear(s) is pretty great (imho very good after modifications) and I never use EQ btw.
I think it is mainly about KZ changing tuning/driver of ZS3 + well known VERY BAD QC with heat-shrink sound tubes (crushed, uneven shrinking, cracked).
But heck, I love ZS3 shells and fit. Will get back finishing modding them after IT01 & ZS5v1 mods.


----------



## Torment

My ZSA are in the country just gone through customs so should be any day hopefully


----------



## DocHoliday (May 21, 2018)

CoiL said:


> About hearing perception... I think no. I`m well referenced with other head-fi members and have many KZ`s and some other good IEMs.
> Also my source gear(s) is pretty great (imho very good after modifications) and I never use EQ btw.
> I think it is mainly about KZ changing tuning/driver of ZS3 + well known VERY BAD QC with heat-shrink sound tubes (crushed, uneven shrinking, cracked).
> But heck, I love ZS3 shells and fit. Will get back finishing modding them after IT01 & ZS5v1 mods.



Crushed tube:



 

I was one of the few to receive the very first ZS3's pre-recall. The recall took place within 48 hours of the ZS3's release. Mine were shipped just hours before the recall took place. My ZS3 had no foam in the nozzle and they were fitted with the  0.78mm 2-pin receptacle. It's still a very good IEM. I have removed the red nylon mesh screen and the only drawback is the occasional strident upper midrange. I've found that the bass and the isolation work well for outdoor use but the ZS3 is not as refined as the newer crop of KZ's (ZSR, ES3, ZS6, ZS5(i) etc.) but I can still enjoy them.

Anyone have info on the UiiSii CM5 driver? ZS4 or no ZS4, I'm considering transplanting the UiiSii CM5 driver into a new ZS3 housing. ZS3 fits like a custom in-ear monitor for me.

BTW, thanks for responding to my ATE/ATR question, Coil.


----------



## Makahl (May 21, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Crushed tube:
> 
> 
> I was one of the few to receive the very first ZS3's pre-recall. The recall took place within 48 hours of the ZS3's release. Mine were shipped just hours before the recall took place. My ZS3 had no foam in the nozzle and they were fitted with the  0.78mm 2-pin receptacle. It's still a very good IEM. I have removed the red nylon mesh screen and the only drawback is the occasional strident upper midrange. I've found that the bass and the isolation work well for outdoor use but the ZS3 is not as refined as the newer crop of KZ's (ZSR, ES3, ZS6, ZS5(i) etc.) but I can still enjoy them.
> ...



I've opened the Blitzwolf BW-ES1 with this idea to move the driver into the ZS3's housing, although this DD is like an earbud driver differently than ZS3's driver which you attach a tube. Something like that:





So you'll get only mid/highs frequencies without a good seal. I was trying to mod ZS3 into a hybrid but I ended up just using 1 full-range BA like RAB-32257(3x2mm tube 20mm + knowles green damper) since it's just plug and play, however, that's amazingly good for its price. IEMs like Etymotic, FI-BA-SS,QDC Neptune, CA Orion/Comet only use 1 full-range BA and you can see a lot of people like them.

Edit: CM5's driver is like the ES1 so that'll be really hard to get a good seal inside. So I think the best option is wait for ZS4 haha.


----------



## Podster

I'm so weak Triggered yet another cart, ED15, ES4, ZSA, Red Benjie S5, two more Bronze SP cables and finished off with the T2's just cause they will look so sweet with that red Benjie Still scrubbing the SUCKA off my forehead


----------



## MyPants

HungryPanda said:


> Please edit your post and remove name for the sake of this thread


I've gotta ask, I understand why we're not supposed to endorse products from the banned sellers, link to them, or discuss their prices, but why in the world do we have to be so uptight about the mere mention of their names? What harm would be done by saying "-banned seller's actual name- is banned so don't discuss them" rather than having to hint at it like frickin Voldemort? And it seems like some fascist thought policing to be disallowed from discussing the mere existence of products from these sellers in a neutral way. I mean, just because someone says a product exists and may be competent doesn't mean you should purchase it from a disreputable seller. Am I off base here, because I feel like a group of adults can handle this matter with a little more nuance.


----------



## HungryPanda

Because the threads keep getting locked or shut down, then the mods have to spend hours of their own time cleaning up. I buy from them and so do many others. I also do not agree but rules are rules


----------



## MyPants

HungryPanda said:


> Because the threads keep getting locked or shut down, then the mods have to spend hours of their own time cleaning up. I buy from them and so do many others. I also do not agree but rules are rules


But that's the question I'm asking. I don't blame you for stating the rules, I'm asking why they're so draconian to begin with.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Ouch, KZ QC strikes again!
> 
> My guess is 1 or both of the midrange BAs are dead or there’s a wiring problem.
> 
> I’d contact the seller and see if you can get them swapped out. Not sure how you’d ‘prove’ that just the midrange is wonky though, as sites like Aliexpress and Gearbest ask for video proof of the problem. It would show up on FR measurements, assuming you could get access to a measurement setup.




No more callers please we have a winner.  After breaking them open, we found that both of the mid BAs on the left ear were wired in reverse polarity when compared to the right.   In dissecting one of the other pairs, we confirmed the left to be wired backward in the pair I had.     So now we know, at least one pair escaped mis-wired and there likely are others so if you get a pair that has a distinct hollow in the middle range you may want to check the wiring.


----------



## Zerohour88

MyPants said:


> But that's the question I'm asking. I don't blame you for stating the rules, I'm asking why they're so draconian to begin with.



check @Slater 's signature for info on the sellers. Judging from how they've operated, its likely just a zero-tolerance policy.


----------



## MyPants

Wiljen said:


> No more callers please we have a winner.  After breaking them open, we found that both of the mid BAs on the left ear were wired in reverse polarity when compared to the right.   In dissecting one of the other pairs, we confirmed the left to be wired backward in the pair I had.     So now we know, at least one pair escaped mis-wired and there likely are others so if you get a pair that has a distinct hollow in the middle range you may want to check the wiring.


Do I understand correctly that this would result in the midrange being out of phase while the rest of the range is in phase?


----------



## MyPants

Zerohour88 said:


> check @Slater 's signature for info on the sellers. Judging from how they've operated, its likely just a zero-tolerance policy.


-sigh- I've read it and agree fundamentally with the ban, and I know it's a zero-tolerance policy, but I guess I've always thought those are a poorly tailored solution to most problems. Seems like it's just accepted 'round these parts though and it's not like I desperately wanna talk about those guys or their stuff so I guess it's whatever.


----------



## vladstef

Wiljen said:


> No more callers please we have a winner.  After breaking them open, we found that both of the mid BAs on the left ear were wired in reverse polarity when compared to the right.   In dissecting one of the other pairs, we confirmed the left to be wired backward in the pair I had.     So now we know, at least one pair escaped mis-wired and there likely are others so if you get a pair that has a distinct hollow in the middle range you may want to check the wiring.



Oh.. this might be what I'm hearing with ZS10. It's not exactly a standard reveresed polarity sound, but this could be less noticeable on ZS10 due to driver count. You don't often get a 5 driver IEM where some drivers are not properly soldered given that they mostly cost like 1K$.


----------



## Slater (May 21, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> No more callers please we have a winner.  After breaking them open, we found that both of the mid BAs on the left ear were wired in reverse polarity when compared to the right.   In dissecting one of the other pairs, we confirmed the left to be wired backward in the pair I had.     So now we know, at least one pair escaped mis-wired and there likely are others so if you get a pair that has a distinct hollow in the middle range you may want to check the wiring.



Nice job!

Yup, and this is the problem with the "BA driver wars" (with everyone, not just KZ). It's one thing to make sure to solder the wires properly on ONE driver. But when we start having 4, 5, 6, 8 drivers per side, this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem as time goes on.

As I've said in the past, how is the average Joe supposed to know if 1 or 2 out of their 12 drivers either dies at some point a month after receiving, or is miswired/DOA right out of the box? You could say "Oh, but I'm sure I will hear something wrong". But I contend that is just wishful thinking, based on the fact that an individual BA may only be contributing ~1dB over a very small frequency range for example.


----------



## fluteloop

maxxevv said:


> I think most people who did not respond well to the ZS10 bought on the pre-formed notion that it would have an energetic, bright signature similar to the ZS5 and ZS6 that came before as KZ's TOTL models.



I was hoping it was not going to follow the same path as those, I think they'd done well with the previous models,


MyPants said:


> Do I understand correctly that this would result in the midrange being out of phase while the rest of the range is in phase?



Correct it sounds like someone scoops the body from the sound out... it's there it's just hollow and almost lifeless, it's a horrible sensation even on phones you're unfamiliar with something very wrong is apparent. they might even still sound clean and crisp just completely nauseating.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Nice job!
> 
> Yup, and this is the problem with the "BA driver wars" (with everyone, not just KZ). It's one thing to make sure to solder the wires properly on ONE driver. But when we start having 4, 5, 6, 8 drivers per side, this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem as time goes on.
> 
> As I've said in the past, how is the average Joe supposed to know if 1 or 2 out of their 12 drivers either dies at some point a month after receiving, or is miswired/DOA right out of the box? You could say "Oh, but I'm sure I will hear something wrong". But I contend that is just wishful thinking, based on the fact that an individual BA may only be contributing ~1dB over a very small frequency range for example.



You could hear it without a doubt in this case, but it would be interesting to know how much difference it would make to repair only one of the two and see what you hear with 1 driver out of phase.   That might well be very difficult to identify by sound alone.  I suspect it wont sound right, but possibly not wrong enough to be identifiable for what it was.   I might just try this as I re-wire them just to see.


----------



## nadezhda 6004

basshead11 said:


> For me zs10 is not deep as zs5 but more punchy and bassy enough.


Can't wait till mine will come to me.


----------



## Aparker2005

So ready for dispatch basically means they haven't really shipped yet? Sent an email to my seller today but probably won't get a response until I'm asleep


----------



## HerrXRDS

Does anyone know if I can buy the small tips from this set separately. At 9mm these are the smallest I've found, everything else 11mm and up. I want to buy a bag of them but I can only find them in this set.


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> Does anyone know if I can buy the small tips from this set separately. At 9mm these are the smallest I've found, everything else 11mm and up. I want to buy a bag of them but I can only find them in this set.



Those are Starlines. You can buy a "bag of them" from here 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Pairs-S...-Bud-Tip-for-KZ-ED12-ZS2-ATE-ZS3/252978022948

Make sure you specify the size (S) in the "Message to seller" when you place your order.


----------



## thomaspillar (May 21, 2018)

bsoplinger said:


> I bought this LP shortly after it was released. Missed out on the short lived CD release. However someone was nice enough to post a YouTube video of it. The audio is supposed to be uncompressed according to the poster. Its from a BBC documentary on the Andes. Interesting percussion and pan pipes and more. I extracted the audio. I created a cue file so that I can reference the various tracks. I'll post the link to the video in the spoiler but it doesn't look like head-fi provides any storage for files so I'll have to figure out where to toss the cue file in case anyone wants it. Nice music for testing midrange and imaging and for checking on boomy bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, , but I've got a better solution for all that issues in downloading videos off the internet. I love ****, it works fine and has all formats download option for all internet devices with just "one-click" download button. Try it!


bsoplinger said:


> I bought this LP shortly after it was released. Missed out on the short lived CD release. However someone was nice enough to post a YouTube video of it. The audio is supposed to be uncompressed according to the poster. Its from a BBC documentary on the Andes. Interesting percussion and pan pipes and more. I extracted the audio. I created a cue file so that I can reference the various tracks. I'll post the link to the video in the spoiler but it doesn't look like head-fi provides any storage for files so I'll have to figure out where to toss the cue file in case anyone wants it. Nice music for testing midrange and imaging and for checking on boomy bass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks,bsoplinger
 but I mp3xd youtube video converter love , it works fine and has all formats download option for all internet devices with just "one-click" download button. Try it!


----------



## HerrXRDS

Slater said:


> Those are Starlines. You can buy a "bag of them" from here
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Pairs-S...-Bud-Tip-for-KZ-ED12-ZS2-ATE-ZS3/252978022948
> 
> Make sure you specify the size (S) in the "Message to seller" when you place your order.




Sorry, forgot to mention, those are foam tips with some sort of plastidip coating. They don't have an interior tube and the quality is pretty meh, but the size is right. 

Starlines, I have to many of those already, not a fan.


----------



## Slater (May 22, 2018)

HerrXRDS said:


> Sorry, forgot to mention, those are foam tips with some sort of plastidip coating. They don't have an interior tube and the quality is pretty meh, but the size is right.
> 
> Starlines, I have to many of those already, not a fan.



That's odd, because when it's zoomed in you can see the "cuts" all around the top of the tip (which is identical looking to Starline tip).

You can see it easiest in the middle (M) tip:


----------



## HerrXRDS

Slater said:


> That's odd, because when it's zoomed in you can see the "cuts" all around the top of the tip (which is identical looking to Starline tip).
> 
> You can see it easiest in the middle (M) tip:



I already own a set, they are foam. Here is a picture, I added the starline for comparison.


----------



## CoiL

Podster said:


> I'm so weak Triggered yet another cart, ED15, ES4, ZSA, Red Benjie S5, two more Bronze SP cables and finished off with the T2's just cause they will look so sweet with that red Benjie Still scrubbing the SUCKA off my forehead


Geesh, better save Your money and get something great instead... like IT01, King Pro etc.


Wiljen said:


> No more callers please we have a winner.  After breaking them open, we found that both of the mid BAs on the left ear were wired in reverse polarity when compared to the right.   In dissecting one of the other pairs, we confirmed the left to be wired backward in the pair I had.     So now we know, at least one pair escaped mis-wired and there likely are others so if you get a pair that has a distinct hollow in the middle range you may want to check the wiring.





vladstef said:


> Oh.. this might be what I'm hearing with ZS10. It's not exactly a standard reveresed polarity sound, but this could be less noticeable on ZS10 due to driver count. You don't often get a 5 driver IEM where some drivers are not properly soldered given that they mostly cost like 1K$.


Oh my... KZ QC strikes again! 
You spend around 40$ to IEM and get a bad one? Thank You but NO! Seriously, ppl should stop at some point "supporting" KZ and saying "oh, its wired bad, but I open it and fix it, its ok".
I can tolerate such bad QC around 20$ but higher than that makes me think...
Instead get Tin Audio T2, CM5, ES1, V20 etc.


----------



## Vestat

MyPants said:


> -sigh- I've read it and agree fundamentally with the ban, and I know it's a zero-tolerance policy, but I guess I've always thought those are a poorly tailored solution to most problems. Seems like it's just accepted 'round these parts though and it's not like I desperately wanna talk about those guys or their stuff so I guess it's whatever.



I also agree with the reasons of being against some sellers and their policies, but history teaches that prohibition is not the answer. Avoiding to mention is not solving the problem. Efficient Information is the way, so when people knows about what happened, people can judge and chose.


----------



## Torment

KZ ZSA landed this morning


----------



## Aparker2005

Seller responded with: hello, sorry for your waiting, we will check with our warehouse and see if we have new tracking number for you,please wait, thanks

First time waiting this long, so I'm not sure if I actually need to keep waiting or open a dispute yet?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8 (May 22, 2018)

Inside the KZ 30095 BA.

I opened up the BAs found in my KZ ZS5 v2. Thought I would post the pics here.
​


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Geesh, better save Your money and get something great instead... like IT01, King Pro etc.
> 
> 
> Oh my... KZ QC strikes again!
> ...




This marks about the 3rd issue I've had with QC in a KZ product and I think @CoiL is right about it getting a bit silly.  I had a Zs6 that I had to reverse the connector on as one was reversed which was not an inexpensive in-ear, I had a ed9 where the left side was DOA which was admittedly only $8 down the drain, and now the Zs10 wired bassackward. Either I have the worst luck on the planet, or a lot of others (not necessarily head-fi members, but general public) have gone blindly on without even knowing they had a defect.  Either a lot of people cant hear or don't care as I have a hard time believing I got every defective KZ that has hit the market.  Meantime, that was $100 I could have used to buy something like the IT01 and been better off for it.


----------



## Zlivan

Both of my ZSEs were out of phase, which is a bit inconvinient when the cables are not replacable.
I guess I had luck with all the other KZs, no problems that I'm aware of.


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> I already own a set, they are foam. Here is a picture, I added the starline for comparison.




Oh, OK those are the fast rebound gel foam tips that come with the ATE and ATR, I personally don't like them because they are hard as a rock.

But if you want more of them, here is a link to some KZ ones:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-p...oam-sponge-earphone-Ear-pads/32810305691.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-P...arphone-Silicone-Eartips-Ear/32799612330.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lar...ost-earbuds-in-ear-earphones/32811758782.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-P...ips-Slow-Rebounding-Silicone/32732801818.html

Also, here is a link to better ones than the KZs (they are MUCH softer, and in many more color options):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...rbud-Bud-Tips-Earbuds-eartips/1052204391.html


----------



## Slater

Aparker2005 said:


> Seller responded with: hello, sorry for your waiting, we will check with our warehouse and see if we have new tracking number for you,please wait, thanks
> 
> First time waiting this long, so I'm not sure if I actually need to keep waiting or open a dispute yet?



Nah, welcome to the world of buying products directly from China. It's a game of 'hurry up and wait'. You'll just have to be patient, or order from Amazon next time if you'e not a patient type of person.


----------



## Aparker2005

Slater said:


> Nah, welcome to the world of buying products directly from China. It's a game of 'hurry up and wait'. You'll just have to be patient, or order from Amazon next time if you'e not a patient type of person.



Ahhh thanks!


----------



## Slater

Gearbest has the ZS10 for $30.99 right now. Seems like a dang good deal.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Slater said:


> Gearbest has the ZS10 for $30.99 right now. Seems like a dang good deal.


*only 30pcs for this price 
Jim nicehck has zs10 for ~ 30-35$(just ask him about spec sale) .


----------



## Podster

"Geesh, better save Your money and get something great instead... like IT01, King Pro etc."

@CoiL , I have a plethora of nice iem's and just like that I can have all three of these KZ's to play around with for about $18 more than I paid for these T2's. I have FLC8S, ASG Rockets, P-1's, Trinity Delta I/II, Techne's, Sabre, Icarus III's, Masters, both versions of the Vyrus, IMR R1's, D2002, Audeo PFE 022, Sendiy M1221, SWIII's, A4's, SE215's, Noble X's, Westone ADV's, Klipsch X7i and of course my beloved Havi B3 Pro's so I have some relatively nice iem's as well but KZ offers me a fun playground into budget Chi-Fi so although I probably have 3/4 of KZ production line over the last 6 years I don't regret one purchase from KZ and even luckier still out of 14/15 pairs I've only had one real QC issue on one pair. Maybe it's just good living or karma for treaty all my Head-Fi buddies the way I'd want to be treated I have always respected that we all hear our cans/iem's just a little different and that is OK by me as long as you respect others and more importantly you enjoy your music and reproduction gears


----------



## CYoung234

CoiL said:


> Geesh, better save Your money and get something great instead... like IT01, King Pro etc.
> 
> 
> Oh my... KZ QC strikes again!
> ...



Valid points, but keep in mind that all manufacturers have QC issues. I have heard of people having failures with Tin audio as well. Personally, I own 9 KZ items, and no problems with any of them.


----------



## taygomi

Does KZ offer a mmcx cable without this wire for that ear mount?


----------



## Slater (May 22, 2018)

taygomi said:


> Does KZ offer a mmcx cable without this wire for that ear mount?



KZ offers nothing with MMCX. All of their removable cable offerings use 0.75mm 2-pin connections.

However, it is easy to remove the memory wire from any KZ cable. Problem solved.


----------



## CoiL (May 22, 2018)

CYoung234 said:


> Valid points, but keep in mind that all manufacturers have QC issues. I have heard of people having failures with Tin audio as well. Personally, I own 9 KZ items, and no problems with any of them.


Yeah, I know it. Even IT01 has QC problems but only with cable soldering points. Most IEMs come from asian factories anyway... just that some brands have higher demands and control over quality of contract production lines, this is where things make a turn for customer at certain price point. Even if You get a dud or product fails, You can still be sure You`ll have great RMA service and issue gets dealt with.
KZ just continiously has QC issues and different revisions, without notifying ppl, poor service through 3rd party sellers etc.


Podster said:


> "Geesh, better save Your money and get something great instead... like IT01, King Pro etc."
> @CoiL , I have a plethora of nice iem's and just like that I can have all three of these KZ's to play around with for about $18 more than I paid for these T2's. I have FLC8S, ASG Rockets, P-1's, Trinity Delta I/II, Techne's, Sabre, Icarus III's, Masters, both versions of the Vyrus, IMR R1's, D2002, Audeo PFE 022, Sendiy M1221, SWIII's, A4's, SE215's, Noble X's, Westone ADV's, Klipsch X7i and of course my beloved Havi B3 Pro's so I have some relatively nice iem's as well but KZ offers me a fun playground into budget Chi-Fi so although I probably have 3/4 of KZ production line over the last 6 years I don't regret one purchase from KZ and even luckier still out of 14/15 pairs I've only had one real QC issue on one pair. Maybe it's just good living or karma for treaty all my Head-Fi buddies the way I'd want to be treated I have always respected that we all hear our cans/iem's just a little different and that is OK by me as long as you respect others and more importantly you enjoy your music and reproduction gears


Pod ...this was not directed straight to You. I know You have plenty of IEMs. My point was towards many here who DONT have lot of experience, IEMs, time & money - better spend Your money elsewhere.
I understand very well that this is hobby for You (and me too!)  Just trying to enlighten ppl littlebit and make think about where they put their money and possible issues may follow.


----------



## Podster

No offense taken Coil and I see your point for those just trying to get to an individual end all while maintaining a smart budget/purchase. I can afford to play in the KZ ballpark without getting burnt too bad as I've experienced troubles with much more expensive iem's and even though they may have good RMA policies it's still a hassle and once all is said and done you may not get what you were hoping for. It's all good and I just base my KZ on playing low level with an occasional surprise (4 me ZS6) and hoping the ZSA will be the same but if not for $20 I have another iem to go in to teenage rotation I try to instill a good ear into both my 17 and 15 year old's ears but they are so not catching on yet! 17 year old has gone through two pairs of Trinity Techne's now and they fought the good fight but we are talking teenage boys here His last pair had exposed wire by the shells for months before they gave up the ghost and when they went I gave him my old KK Tings and he loves those now and for me they were not 1/10th the Techne's Baby boy has been happy with ED12's (I know, I know) and TFZ Series 1s but he does a little better at care too. He's at least ask me to give him a pair of ZS6's for his Birthday coming up which gives me a glimmer of hope


----------



## Dickymint

Just received my ZSA's today, interesting sound, but I could hear them change even during the short 10 mins I got to listen to them so far. Free silver cable as well, very pleased.


----------



## mbwilson111

Aparker2005 said:


> Seller responded with: hello, sorry for your waiting, we will check with our warehouse and see if we have new tracking number for you,please wait, thanks
> 
> First time waiting this long, so I'm not sure if I actually need to keep waiting or open a dispute yet?



You will most likely be given a new tracking number at some point.  This has happened to us.  We suspect it means that they did not actually have any in stock when the first tracking number was given.  They do that so the order will not be cancelled.  So, don't worry yet.


----------



## Zerohour88

Dickymint said:


> Just received my ZSA's today, interesting sound, but I could hear them change even during the short 10 mins I got to listen to them so far. Free silver cable as well, very pleased.



any comparisons or at least short impressions for us in the meantime? Despite being here often, the last KZ that I had was the ZS5v1, so quite interested in getting one to scratch the new KZ itch

as for the recent QC debacles, I've encountered zero problems with all my 4 KZ iem (heck, accidentally submerged my ATR in some coconut juice, dried it out and it worked fine after), 1 problem with Rose (North Forest slightly iffy build and cable problem), 1 problem with CA (the Lyra glue issue), 1 problem with Dita (cable ripping), so should I make an assumption on the QC for these things?

granted, I won't touch the incoming 16BA until that japanese reviewer opened them up and see how's the wiring inside. Like I said, unless everyone gets a lemon and we discuss specific QC problems (like the ZS3 crushed tube and the latest ZS10 wiring issue), complaining generally that "the QC is bad" is kinda boring and doesn't help.


----------



## Podster (May 22, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> any comparisons or at least short impressions for us in the meantime? Despite being here often, the last KZ that I had was the ZS5v1, so quite interested in getting one to scratch the new KZ itch
> 
> as for the recent QC debacles, I've encountered zero problems with all my 4 KZ iem (heck, accidentally submerged my ATR in some coconut juice, dried it out and it worked fine after), 1 problem with Rose (North Forest slightly iffy build and cable problem), 1 problem with CA (the Lyra glue issue), 1 problem with Dita (cable ripping), so should I make an assumption on the QC for these things?
> 
> granted, I won't touch the incoming 16BA until that japanese reviewer opened them up and see how's the wiring inside. Like I said, unless everyone gets a lemon and we discuss specific QC problems (like the ZS3 crushed tube and the latest ZS10 wiring issue), complaining generally that "the QC is bad" is kinda boring and doesn't help.



Might help if KZ management is on these threads and tries to make adjustments, possibly head the rest of the horses off at the pass (Holy sh1t, someones going to have to go back and get a sh1tload of quarters)!!!!!


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> Might help is KZ management is on these threads and tries to make adjustments, possibly head the rest of the horses off at the pass (Holy sh1t, someones going to have to go back and get a sh1tload of quarters)!!!!!



Yup, hence its better to be specific in our complaints, if they actually do read these threads for tips. It'd be easier and faster for them to fix stuff (if they do read here, that is). Plus others may get ideas on how to DIY the fixes (not really optimum, but people really like the BW ES-1 mod, so there's a niche for stuff like that).

not that general sweeping comments won't be made sometime down the road again, derailing any productive discussions and making it an exercise in futility


----------



## Podster

Indeed and around here at times "Resistance can be futile"


----------



## C2thew

Wiljen said:


> No more callers please we have a winner.  After breaking them open, we found that both of the mid BAs on the left ear were wired in reverse polarity when compared to the right.   In dissecting one of the other pairs, we confirmed the left to be wired backward in the pair I had.     So now we know, at least one pair escaped mis-wired and there likely are others so if you get a pair that has a distinct hollow in the middle range you may want to check the wiring.



Ruh roh.  I think I might have a set of miswired ZS10's too then.  I am hearing an echo in the midrange for the ZS10's and thought that was the intended effect of the ZS10's.  I do have a second set of ZS10's that I was going to give to my brother but he didn't want them.  I'm wondering, should I open the new ZS10's to confirm the mis-wiring or is it the actual sound of the ZS10 to have a slight "echo" sound in the mid range?

Is there any other way to detect if the zs10's were miswired?


----------



## Wiljen

I wouldn't think an echo should ever be present. 

Try flipping one of the connectors and see if the echo goes away.  (Granted this will likely take the highs and bass out of phase so you may have the echo above and below the frequency range that has it now).  

There are a few phase tests online that might work to identify a mis-wiring but, with it only being part of the drivers, it wont be as blatant as wiring the 2 pin connector backward.


----------



## phower

Guys,

How about creating a separate thread for ZSA and ED16? This thread has too much high traffic that it is difficult to focus on what one is interested? General KZ could still be posted here.


----------



## vegetaleb

Anyone tried the bt bt3 cable adapter with ZSR? And is  it really aptx? I wonder if it sounds as good as a usb c to 3.5mm dongle


----------



## zazaboy

plz someone give some impressions about kz zsa .. people who get them... i need info about vocals soundstage and bass... is it better then kz zs10 and kz zs6... atm kz es4 is the best kz... like i see at different review sites.. but ... i need a good impressions first.. hope someone give some info about the kz zsa thanks...


----------



## toddy0191

Wiljen said:


> I wouldn't think an echo should ever be present.
> 
> Try flipping one of the connectors and see if the echo goes away.  (Granted this will likely take the highs and bass out of phase so you may have the echo above and below the frequency range that has it now).
> 
> There are a few phase tests online that might work to identify a mis-wiring but, with it only being part of the drivers, it wont be as blatant as wiring the 2 pin connector backward.



Could you tell me your method for opening up the shell on the ZS10?


----------



## Wiljen

toddy0191 said:


> Could you tell me your method for opening up the shell on the ZS10?



used a heat gun to soften up the glue on the outer shell and a set of tools designed to remove the screen from a cell phone to get into the seam and pry.


----------



## toddy0191

Wiljen said:


> used a heat gun to soften up the glue on the outer shell and a set of tools designed to remove the screen from a cell phone to get into the seam and pry.


 Cheers


----------



## Makahl

Wiljen said:


> used a heat gun to soften up the glue on the outer shell and a set of tools designed to remove the screen from a cell phone to get into the seam and pry.



1000x better than this:


*gore alert*


----------



## B9Scrambler

That hurts...


----------



## Dickymint

zazaboy said:


> plz someone give some impressions about kz zsa .. people who get them... i need info about vocals soundstage and bass... is it better then kz zs10 and kz zs6... atm kz es4 is the best kz... like i see at different review sites.. but ... i need a good impressions first.. hope someone give some info about the kz zsa thanks...



Only got a quick listen to the ZSA, soundstage is good, vocals seem to be rather close in but the rest of the instruments have a nice wide band around you. Cymbals seem to be very clear and if you use really good sealing tips, the bass is phenomenal! Only had about 10 mins to try them so far. TBC. Bass is more full sounding than the ZS10, soundstage is about the same and vocals are as I said good. Just from the quick listen, I think I like them better than the ZS6, it's too aggressive for me.


----------



## Zlivan

Makahl said:


> 1000x better than this:
> 
> 
> *gore alert*



Yeah, he totally deserves the "tech" part of his nickname...
Some people should not exist on the web.


----------



## KipNix

J


Wiljen said:


> I wouldn't think an echo should ever be present.
> 
> Try flipping one of the connectors and see if the echo goes away.  (Granted this will likely take the highs and bass out of phase so you may have the echo above and below the frequency range that has it now).
> 
> There are a few phase tests online that might work to identify a mis-wiring but, with it only being part of the drivers, it wont be as blatant as wiring the 2 pin connector backward.


Just don't test it on any Abba tunes.


----------



## vegetaleb

So nobody tried the bluetooth BT3 adapter for kz?


----------



## Podster (May 22, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> That hurts...



Indeed, was something along these lines for me B!!!!!







@phower , just start one That's what I do when I want to drill down and clarify on one or two things. Just start it in this category


----------



## Slater (May 22, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> granted, I won't touch the incoming 16BA until that japanese reviewer opened them up and see how's the wiring inside. Like I said, unless everyone gets a lemon and we discuss specific QC problems (like the ZS3 crushed tube and the latest ZS10 wiring issue), complaining generally that "the QC is bad" is kinda boring and doesn't help.



Generally the QC issues are rare. The crushed sound tube was a widespread problem, and was recalled. But the onesie twosie wiring issues etc are few and far between. So if the bisonicr guy opens his up and his is perfect, it doesn't guarantee that that other 24,999 are going to be perfect too. There's QC issues with every product in the world.


----------



## Strat Rider

I guess my question is...Why is it so hard to abide by the forum rules without questioning as to why?

I'm all for free expression and all, but I am here to experience and share in the KZ experiences of others.

I don't subscribe to political forums myself, but I don't think I would be reading the latest (insert your political preference here) forum and pop in with "taxes are too high.....hey have you all heard the KZ zsr?"

End Rant


----------



## Slater

phower said:


> Guys,
> 
> How about creating a separate thread for ZSA and ED16? This thread has too much high traffic that it is difficult to focus on what one is interested? General KZ could still be posted here.



KZ is releasing like 11 IEMs this year alone. Creating a separate thread for each one would get bonkers real quick.


----------



## sino8r

Dickymint said:


> Only got a quick listen to the ZSA, soundstage is good, vocals seem to be rather close in but the rest of the instruments have a nice wide band around you. Cymbals seem to be very clear and if you use really good sealing tips, the bass is phenomenal! Only had about 10 mins to try them so far. TBC. Bass is more full sounding than the ZS10, soundstage is about the same and vocals are as I said good. Just from the quick listen, I think I like them better than the ZS6, it's too aggressive for me.



How are the vocals and treble compared to ZS6? Sounds like the are recessed a bit like the ZS10? Is that a fair assessment?


----------



## Zerohour88

vegetaleb said:


> So nobody tried the bluetooth BT3 adapter for kz?



hm...not finding any hits on BT3 for KZ. Do you mean the TRN BT3 bluetooth? If its the KZ Bluetooth, I've used it for a bit with the ZS3 and was satisfied with it (3 hours use time or so, rough estimation).




Slater said:


> Generally the QC issues are rare. The crushed sound tube was a widespread problem, and was recalled. But the onesie twosie wiring issues etc are few and far between. So if the bisonicr guy opens his up and his is perfect, it doesn't guarantee that that other 24,999 are going to be perfect too. There's QC issues with every product in the world.



That was my point, actually. I don't mind people complaining about QC, that is, specific QC problems rather than just saying "OMG KZ QC so bad". The bisonicr guy opened up the ZS10 recently and if Google translate served me right, he also complained that some wiring were messed up (but somehow the channels are matched). Which is why I prefer multi-BAs with clear shells (ones costing more than $100, at least). And as you've said, 1 BA or crossover failing might not register as faulty on some users and will be translated to just inherent flaw in SQ. Which in turn gonna create problems when people try to make comparisons or reviews.

While I honestly don't think they'd have enough time between product releases to actually improve the models, KZ may pleasantly surprise me.


----------



## vegetaleb

Yes the TRN BT3.
How's the sound quality? Is it aptx?


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Yes the TRN BT3.
> How's the sound quality? Is it aptx?



Yes it's good quality. And there are 2 versions, one with aptX and one without aptX.


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> Yes it's good quality. And there are 2 versions, one with aptX and one without aptX.



Thanks.
Its plugs are good with ZSR? I mean I tried my ZSR with my zs3 cable but even though both are 2 pins, they will detach too easily


----------



## Slater (May 22, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks.
> Its plugs are good with ZSR? I mean I tried my ZSR with my zs3 cable but even though both are 2 pins, they will detach too easily



All of my TRN cables fit KZ stuff fine.

Keep in mind TRN isn't exactly the same as KZ. Sure, the pins are 0.75mm, but the KZ plugs are 'keyed' with a flat and a round shape.



Also, if they fit too loose, you can just gently bend the pins away from one another just a tiny little bit to make it grip tighter.


----------



## SciOC

Slater said:


> All of my TRN cables fit KZ stuff fine.
> 
> Keep in mind TRN isn't exactly the same as KZ. Sure, the pins are 0.75mm, but the KZ plugs are 'keyed' with a flat and a round shape.
> 
> ...


Ahhhh don't do that. Putting weird pressure on the contacts is not a good idea long term.  Switching back and forth between cables already messes with the contacts enough.


----------



## serman005

Can anyone help me with a ZS10 fit issue? I cannot seem to get the direction of the nozzle aligned with the direction of my auditory canal. Am I doing something wrong? Do I just need to bend the memory wire more firmly to get the nozzles in position and hanging on my ear properly? I set my ZS10 out next to my IT01 and looked at them. And the angle of the nozzles on the two IEMs is totally different. The IT01 fits perfectly. Any assistance is greatly appreciated!


----------



## DocHoliday (May 22, 2018)

serman005 said:


> Can anyone help me with a ZS10 fit issue? I cannot seem to get the direction of the nozzle aligned with the direction of my auditory canal. Am I doing something wrong? Do I just need to bend the memory wire more firmly to get the nozzles in position and hanging on my ear properly? I set my ZS10 out next to my IT01 and looked at them. And the angle of the nozzles on the two IEMs is totally different. The IT01 fits perfectly. Any assistance is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Slater (May 22, 2018)

SciOC said:


> Ahhhh don't do that. Putting weird pressure on the contacts is not a good idea long term.  Switching back and forth between cables already messes with the contacts enough.



Well sometimes there's no other alternative. For example, my QKZ VK1 was so loose, NO cable would fit or even make basic/reliable contact (I think they accidentally used 0.78mm jacks on my pair). So that was the only alternative.

I'm not saying to bend the living daylights out of them - I'm only talking about splaying them maybe 2 degrees - just enough to make proper contact. The 0.75mm pins are more than robust enough for that.


----------



## Slater (May 22, 2018)

serman005 said:


> Can anyone help me with a ZS10 fit issue? I cannot seem to get the direction of the nozzle aligned with the direction of my auditory canal. Am I doing something wrong? Do I just need to bend the memory wire more firmly to get the nozzles in position and hanging on my ear properly? I set my ZS10 out next to my IT01 and looked at them. And the angle of the nozzles on the two IEMs is totally different. The IT01 fits perfectly. Any assistance is greatly appreciated!



If the angles are totally different, it may be as simple as you having the L and R earpieces mixed up. That would make the nozzles angle the wrong way, and they would fit wonky. You may also have the cables plugged in backwards, making the plug face the wrong way (again, making the fit all wonky).


----------



## serman005

Spectacular replies, guys. Many thanks!!


----------



## groucho69

Strat Rider said:


> I guess my question is...Why is it so hard to abide by the forum rules without questioning as to why?
> 
> I'm all for free expression and all, but I am here to experience and share in the KZ experiences of others.
> 
> ...



I believe that the KZ ZSR might well end world hunger and put an end to war.


----------



## MyPants

Anybody get their mits on the ES4 yet? They're on flash sale at gearbest for $17.99 and I'm tempted to give them a listen, even with Campfire Comets on the way. I love the ES3 as a beat-around daily IEM, especially if I'm short on pocket space and can't bring a DAP with me, so a refinement of the same idea sounds great. From the looks of it, it's a very similar arrangement with a 30095 BA and 10mm dynamic, but now the DD is graphene-coated (or just graphene, not sure) and the crossover has been reworked.


----------



## C2thew

Just a follow up, my zs10s were not miswired.  I was just confused. Carry on


----------



## dilidani

Guys, any idea why do I have distorted, and superb loud phone calls with my KZ ES4 with KZ upgrade silver cables? Using a Xiaomi redmi 4x.


----------



## Slater

dilidani said:


> Guys, any idea why do I have distorted, and superb loud phone calls with my KZ ES4 with KZ upgrade silver cables? Using a Xiaomi redmi 4x.



Is 1 of them plugged in backwards? That could short the mic.

The sound would also be out of phase. You can listen to this and check:



Spoiler


----------



## JonnyM

Dickymint said:


> Just received my ZSA's today, interesting sound, but I could hear them change even during the short 10 mins I got to listen to them so far. Free silver cable as well, very pleased.


How is the isolation and sound leakage? Cover the nozzles at normal volume. 
I'm looking for new iems for commuting. My kz ate doesn't leak at all but I don't like the grippy cable.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm listening to the KZ ES4 at the moment and it isolates very well and sound leakage is non existant


----------



## MyPants

HungryPanda said:


> I'm listening to the KZ ES4 at the moment and it isolates very well and sound leakage is non existant


Does it sound like a logical progression from zst --> es3 --> es4 in terms of refinement?


----------



## HungryPanda

MyPants said:


> Does it sound like a logical progression from zst --> es3 --> es4 in terms of refinement?


 It certainly is true I find the ES4 is more comfortable than the ES3, sound is fuller, cable is better and it is easier to drive


----------



## oneula

I've liked my ZS10s over the ZSR/ZST/ZS3 
might try them with the KZ ZS3/ZS6/ZS6 Bluetooth Adaptor
I had problems with the adapter and the ZS3 as it kept losing the signal to my AP60 and LGV30
I also like the ED9s with the gold filter
Everything else sounds either too bright or too boomy


----------



## DocHoliday (May 23, 2018)

oneula said:


> I've liked my ZS10s over the ZSR....




Details, if you please.

....and I am in agreement with you on this but what is it you like about the ED9 with gold filters?
.


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> Details, if you please.
> 
> ....and I am in agreement with you on this but what is it you like about the ED9 with gold filters?
> .



I think I am in the minority here.  I prefer the duller non shinny filter on my ED9.  Don't know specifically why.  Just sounds better to MY ears.

I could listen all day.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 23, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I am in the minority here.  I prefer the duller non shinny filter on my ED9.  Don't know specifically why.  Just sounds better to MY ears.
> 
> I could listen all day.



The brass filter (wide)  that you like neutralizes - for lack of a better word - the lower frequencies.



 





FR Graphs courtesy of Igor, of course.

It's been over a year since I've listened to my ED9's with the brass filters.  I've just revisited them and the only genres that worked for me with the brass filters were classical rock,  90's new wave and sometimes classical/baroque but in all honesty I would prefer the ED3 "Perfection" everyday and twice on Sundays. 

The airy presentation with the brass filters is pleasant enough but the absence of the lower frequencies make them (ED9) sound too anemic. It's like being served a cold steak which would be much more appealing if it were served warm.

Preferences......once again.


----------



## Mikel84

Received the ZSA today, and I have been comparing it to the kz s5 all day. My findings are these:

Sound: very V shaped. The s5 had a peak around the mid highs, the ZSA has a peak in the highs. Very piercing highs and a lot of sibilance  Yet a big Soundstage. With some eq I like these more than my s5's. But I can understand some will find it to too much.

The ZSA are really small, and I prefer the size of the s5's. 

The free cable was a joke, it does not fit. Its a female connector instead of a male.


----------



## oneula

I don't know the appropriate audiophile speak, but their sound feels allot smoother or soothing than the ZS3/ZST/ATRs I have
They just don't seal out the rest of the world like the ZSR or ZS10s do
But I could sit back and listen to them all day/night long as long as there's isn't allot of loud noises around me
with the open backs I don't know how bad the leakage is

The ZS10s, Yersen FEN2000s and TIN Audio T2s have been the best for me as far as sound quality and Isolation The ZSRs are pretty close as well and are easy to listen to for "my ears"
I used to think the Shozy Hibikis were good (mainly because of the fit) but these 4 beat it handily
Though being over 60 I have presume my hearing is or will be going bad


----------



## DocHoliday (May 23, 2018)

Mikel84 said:


> The free cable was a joke, it does not fit. Its a female connector instead of a male.



Hmmmm......

Photos please.

 The promotional images are as follows: 




 

Hmmm......
How do you use KZ's existing cables if the receptacle is female and the cable connector is female?



 



 

Hmmm.....
It makes no sense for KZ to rework the entire system they've employed for 18 months for one IEM.

Photos please.

Hmmmm.....
Thus far, the overall feedback is that the new cables are a welcome change.

Hmmmm.....
Noticed this is your first post.

Hmmmm.....


----------



## Zerohour88

Mikel84 said:


> Received the ZSA today, and I have been comparing it to the kz s5 all day. My findings are these:
> 
> The free cable was a joke, it does not fit. Its a female connector instead of a male.





DocHoliday said:


> Hmmmm......
> 
> 
> Hmmm......
> ...



Before crucifying anyone, I'd want to confirm that the cables were either included by KZ or by the seller. Some seller might not know and wanted to throw in a free gift but the wrong type (those 2 pins female are for ATH, I think?)


----------



## DocHoliday (May 23, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> Before crucifying anyone, I'd want to confirm that the cables were either included by KZ or by the seller. Some seller might not know and wanted to throw in a free gift but the wrong type (those 2 pins female are for ATH, I think?)



Highly unlikely that the ZSA was shipped without it's cable inside the sealed box like every KZ with a detachable cable even if a seller included an "additional" cable. 



 

No crucifixion but physical evidence ends the confusion. 

Photos please.

ATH cables:


----------



## Makahl

Here's an unboxing and normal cable as usual:


Tbh, that's the first time reading about female connector. Probably there's something wrong.


----------



## Dickymint

Firstly, when I got my ZSA's, I got a free cable as well, it is also the wrong type, it fits the ZS10 better but not the ZS6 or ZSA!
Tonight I have had a chance to do some comparisons between my ZSA, ZS6 and ZS10 headphones, one thing I did find is that all of these headphones can be tuned to suit by using the right tips. And another point I found was that the ZS6 does not like the standard cable, it makes them sound sibilant and changing to the KZ silver cable makes such a difference.
I began by using the ZS10, I considered it to be a good all round headphone, the soundstage is right around you and you are in the middle connected with the music. Everything sounds like it is in the right place and the sound is just right! Bass is enough and well controlled, not over blown.
While the first time I tried the ZSA, (only really run for about 4 hours, so not really a fair comparison.) I found it to have a much darker sound and heavily bass dominated which was making the vocals slightly recessed and not very clear. Soundstage was good but away from the listener, almost funnel like in the sensation and very slightly sibilant.
Changing to the ZS6, bass was good, well controlled, still more than the ZS10, soundstage was immersive and widespread but vocals were very sibilant, annoyingly so! The midrange is forward but the very upper midrange was recessed. And the sibilance was causing cymbols to be tizzy instead of having a zingy sound.
Once I started changing tips, the ZSA eventually became fun to listen to but very mid, mid forward, and as it ran for a while and got warmed up, the bass began to go back into a place of sensibility and control, much reduced from before, which began to relieve the midrange to start coming forward and more balanced. After and hour and a half, it had all settled down but the ZSA is still very mid forward compared to both the other headphones and when I changed back from the silver cable to the brown one, sibilance came back with a vengence on the ZSA also.
Back to the ZS6, a change of cable to the KZ silver and the sibilance just disappeared completely, everything became so much clearer and with the right tips, again a well balanced sound was produced. In fact, I began to fall in love again with these headphones, that much of a change!
Another thing of notice, the ZSA needs quite a bit more power to run at the same volume as the other two but it doesn't lose it's detail at lower volume thankfully. As always, this is my opinion, you form your own, this is just for me to give my personal opinion! And to be fair on the ZSA, it has only had a short run time, the fact that it changes so much over a short listening period means to me that it has not yet been fully run in and needs more time to settle.


----------



## Zerohour88

DocHoliday said:


> Highly unlikely that the ZSA was shipped without it's cable inside the sealed box like every KZ with a detachable cable even if a seller included an "additional" cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was alluding more to the statement "free cable", as opposed to the original, included cable that would be included within the box. Hence he was able to use the ZSA. Unless he meant that KZ only gave him one cable, in which case, yes, a photo would clear it up easily.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 23, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> I was alluding more to the statement "free cable", as opposed to the original, included cable that would be included within the box. Hence he was able to use the ZSA. Unless he meant that KZ only gave him one cable, in which case, yes, a photo would clear it up easily.



Yeah, the "free cable" is the anomaly in the equation.  

Dickymint's feedback sheds more light on the issue but female connectors on the free cable?



> "The free cable was a joke, it does not fit.
> 
> Its a female connector instead of a male."


----------



## Vestat

does anybody got the ES4? any comments? thanks in advance


----------



## 1clearhead

Dickymint said:


> Firstly, when I got my ZSA's, I got a free cable as well, it is also the wrong type, it fits the ZS10 better but not the ZS6 or ZSA!
> Tonight I have had a chance to do some comparisons between my ZSA, ZS6 and ZS10 headphones, one thing I did find is that all of these headphones can be tuned to suit by using the right tips. And another point I found was that the ZS6 does not like the standard cable, it makes them sound sibilant and changing to the KZ silver cable makes such a difference.
> I began by using the ZS10, I considered it to be a good all round headphone, the soundstage is right around you and you are in the middle connected with the music. Everything sounds like it is in the right place and the sound is just right! Bass is enough and well controlled, not over blown.
> While the first time I tried the ZSA, (only really run for about 4 hours, so not really a fair comparison.) I found it to have a much darker sound and heavily bass dominated which was making the vocals slightly recessed and not very clear. Soundstage was good but away from the listener, almost funnel like in the sensation and very slightly sibilant.
> ...


Very informative!...After running more hours with the ZSA, please give us more details and your final thoughts on these, and also your selective ear tips for them, as well.


----------



## CoiL

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I am in the minority here.  I prefer the duller non shinny filter on my ED9.  Don't know specifically why.  Just sounds better to MY ears.
> I could listen all day.


You`re not minority. Back when ppl praised ED9, most users preferred dull brass nozzles due to more neutral signature. With golden nozzles (which btw have foam also inside), ED9 sounds clear V-shape tuning with powerful dominant bass and sparkly (but little splashy and unnatural). 
My recommendation - use dull brass nozzles and add very tiny amount of foam and use medium bore tips. Another option would be using golden nozzles but remove grill&foam to reduce bassy sound but then highs become too "splashy".


----------



## 424358

Dang if ZSA are ZS6 but in a smaller shell I’ll be stoked. Can’t wait to get my pair in the mail.


----------



## KainHighwind

Have you received your ES4 yet? I want to buy it on gearbest for $14 USD but the pre-order ED16 is $17 USD, I'm thinking about getting that ED16. Do you like your ES4? Atm, only thephonograph reviewed it yet, and this site places it higher than the flagship models, is it that good?


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> Have you received your ES4 yet? I want to buy it on gearbest for $14 USD but the pre-order ED16 is $17 USD, I'm thinking about getting that ED16. Do you like your ES4? Atm, only thephonograph reviewed it yet, and this site places it higher than the flagship models, is it that good?



I wonder how different the ED16 can really be from the ZSR? They use the same drivers - 10mm dynamic, 30095 treble BA, and 50060 midrange BA - all in a plastic shell.

Am I missing something? Just a slightly different shaped shell, with different color options? Or is there supposed to be more?


----------



## KainHighwind

Slater said:


> I wonder how different the ED16 can really be from the ZSR? They use the same drivers - 10mm dynamic, 30095 treble BA, and 50060 midrange BA - all in a plastic shell.
> 
> Am I missing something? Just a slightly different shaped shell, with different color options? Or is there supposed to be more?



Maybe they have some black magic with the drivers configuration and boom, ED16 is different than ZSR.


----------



## Bartig

KainHighwind said:


> Have you received your ES4 yet? I want to buy it on gearbest for $14 USD but the pre-order ED16 is $17 USD, I'm thinking about getting that ED16. Do you like your ES4? Atm, only thephonograph reviewed it yet, and this site places it higher than the flagship models, is it that good?


I wouldn't put my money on the ED16. I mean, the IEM is called ED16, but has ZS7 on the shells. So either KZ wanted to put it higher in the market but then rebranded it, or KZ just lost track of it's own naming. In any way: there seems to be very little effort in this one. 

Will share impressions as I receive my KZ ES4.


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> You`re not minority. Back when ppl praised ED9, most users preferred dull brass nozzles due to more neutral signature. With golden nozzles (which btw have foam also inside), ED9 sounds clear V-shape tuning with powerful dominant bass and sparkly (but little splashy and unnatural).
> My recommendation - use dull brass nozzles and add very tiny amount of foam and use medium bore tips. Another option would be using golden nozzles but remove grill&foam to reduce bassy sound but then highs become too "splashy".



I guess I prefer a more neutral signature then...and yet, some of the iems I like have been described as V-shape like the IT01 and I love that one.    



misterchao said:


> Dang if ZSA are ZS6 but in a smaller shell I’ll be stoked. Can’t wait to get my pair in the mail.



All this is making me sad that my husband ordered the ZSA for himself and not for me. They are so cute but no point in having a second pair in the house.  Plus we have  not even heard them yet.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8 (May 24, 2018)

misterchao said:


> Dang if ZSA are ZS6 but in a smaller shell I’ll be stoked. Can’t wait to get my pair in the mail.



Yeah here is a side by side comparison, it's way smaller.




Image source:


----------



## Vestat

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Yeah here is a side by side comparison, it's way smaller.



Following the links on the video there is also a review os the ES4. Just a quick one but still a review.


----------



## Strat Rider (May 24, 2018)

The idea of a shell change with the same drivers inside is an interesting marketing approach if that is the case.

I have still not found a definitive answer of the physical driver differences between the ES3 and the ZST.

When the ES3 was being previewed, some sources made mention of a 1mm larger DD in the ES3 vs ZST. I have never opened either of them, but is the DD/BA  combination same or different?

 (edited for verbage)


----------



## toddy0191

Vestat said:


> Following the links on the video there is also a review os the ES4. Just a quick one but still a review.



Received mine this afternoon,  had a quick listen and am liking what I hear.  Bass is very prominent and they don't seem like treble cannons.

Will keep listening tonight at some point.

Really like the look of them in cyan!


----------



## MyPants

Bartig said:


> I wouldn't put my money on the ED16. I mean, the IEM is called ED16, but has ZS7 on the shells. So either KZ wanted to put it higher in the market but then rebranded it, or KZ just lost track of it's own naming. In any way: there seems to be very little effort in this one.
> 
> Will share impressions as I receive my KZ ES4.


It looks to me like ED15/16 are the same driver arrangements as ES4/ZSR but without removable cables, simpler shells, and MAYBE (speculating completely) a more cheaply implemented crossover design (back to sticking it on the DD rather than a board with hookup wire). Overall they look like kz is trying to hit a different customer with slightly different priorities at a slightly lower price.


----------



## MyPants (May 24, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> The idea of a shell change with the same drivers inside is an interesting marketing approach if that is the case.
> 
> I have still not found a definitive answer of the physical driver differences between the ES3 and the ZST.
> 
> ...


ZST uses an 8mm (IIRC) DD while ES3 uses a 10mm DD. I'm not 100% sure if the BAs are the same between the two, but the ES3s treble sounds more natural than ZST so who knows. Could easily be a filter change or psychoacoustics.


----------



## durwood (May 24, 2018)

Slater said:


> I wonder how different the ED16 can really be from the ZSR? They use the same drivers - 10mm dynamic, 30095 treble BA, and 50060 midrange BA - all in a plastic shell.
> 
> Am I missing something? Just a slightly different shaped shell, with different color options? Or is there supposed to be more?



A few posts back -rumor was that they tweaked the crossover to fix the valley and something else (more neutral tuning?)....again only a rumor.

EDIT: I searched high and low for the post but cannot find it...maybe it was a different thread. Maybe it is just wishful thinking.


----------



## MyPants

durwood said:


> A few posts back -rumor was that they tweaked the crossover to fix the valley and something else....again only a rumor.


I really do wish those roughly translated promotional images were more helpful, but ultimately I understand why they wouldn't want to publish their crossover points. With that info it would be easy for UiiSii, Xiomi, etc. to run some math and figure out the capacitor values to implement the same crossover given their own drivers' impedance.


----------



## Slater (May 24, 2018)

MyPants said:


> It looks to me like ED15/16 are the same driver arrangements as ES4/ZSR but without removable cables, simpler shells, and MAYBE (speculating completely) a more cheaply implemented crossover design (back to sticking it on the DD rather than a board with hookup wire). Overall they look like kz is trying to hit a different customer with slightly different priorities at a slightly lower price.



ED16 has removable 2-pin cables:



That's why I am confused. Same 10mm size DD as ZSR, a crossover, plastic shell, and removable cable. Seems redundant.

Obviously, there could be minor differences - a different diaphragm material compared to the ZSR (like graphene, beryllium, or titanium for example), different tuning via vent holes and crossover, and different sound due to shell design.

But regardless (at least on paper), it seems a little _too_ similar to the ZSR. It kinda comes across as a "new model hype train cash grab".

I mean, the ZSR is one of the top 3 IEMs KZ has ever made. So I really hope they prove me wrong and the ED16 is even better!


----------



## MyPants

Slater said:


> ED16 has removable 2-pin cables:


I stand corrected. In that case I have no idea why they have these and the zsr...


----------



## Vestat

toddy0191 said:


> Received mine this afternoon, had a quick listen and am liking what I hear. Bass is very prominent and they don't seem like treble cannons.
> 
> Will keep listening tonight at some point.
> 
> Really like the look of them in cyan!



Thanks a lot for your first impressions.. Will be amazing if you find some more time to go deeper.



Slater said:


> Obviously, there could be minor differences - a different diaphragm material compared to the ZSR (like graphene, beryllium, or titanium for example), different tuning via vent holes and crossover, and different sound due to shell design.



Exactly, if we just go back a few years there are plenty of iems with same sized drivers with similar specs that sounds totally different and with totally different price ranges. apparently, every barely visible changes can mage huge differences in term of sound.
It's strange that, at the moment, ED16 are cheaper than ZSR and are not available on the official KZ store on Ali but only trough other sellers.


----------



## Slater (May 24, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Exactly, if we just go back a few years there are plenty of iems with same sized drivers with similar specs that sounds totally different and with totally different price ranges. apparently, every barely visible changes can mage huge differences in term of sound.



I agree. But with 10-11 models slated for release in 2018 alone, they have to be really careful they don't come across as a 'throw enough crap on the wall some of it will stick, hype train cash grab'.

In the past they did not produce anywhere even remotely close to that yearly output. So there was the opportunity for MUCH less sound overlap between 'similar on paper' models (like the ATE vs ATR, and EDSE vs EDR1 for example).

There really seemed to be a fundamental shift in their strategy starting with the ZS5. In 'questionable' or high-risk investing (day trading, futures, penny stocks, cryptocurrency, etc) the strategy is called 'rinse and repeat'. Its primary goal (rinse and repeat) is to maximize returns as quickly as possible, at the expense of quality.


----------



## Vestat

Slater said:


> I agree. But with 10-11 models slated for release in 2018 alone, they have to be really careful they don't come across as a 'throw enough crap on the wall some of it will stick, hype train cash grab'.
> 
> In the past they did not produce anywhere even remotely close to that yearly output. So there was the opportunity for MUCH less sound overlap between 'similar on paper' models (like the ATE vs ATR, and EDSE vs EDR1 for example).
> 
> There really seemed to be a fundamental shift in their strategy starting with the ZS5. In 'questionable' or high-risk investing (day trading, futures, penny stocks, cryptocurrency, etc) the strategy is called 'rinse and repeat'. Its primary goal (rinse and repeat) is to maximize returns as quickly as possible, at the expense of quality.



Definitely.
I was just stating the fact that small changes makes big differences sound wise.
I am a designer so I guess they must have found a sort of pattern to make new models at a low cost fast rate because they definitely do not have enough time to get to the pay back point.
I believe they are probably only an assembly station where they buy DDs, BAs and shells that have just been branded with the kz logo. That's the only way to do this and to keep the price as low as possible.
This does not mean they lack in quality as long as we should see the production line to talk about that.
Don't know much about business strategies though.


----------



## phower

MyPants said:


> I really do wish those roughly translated promotional images were more helpful, but ultimately I understand why they wouldn't want to publish their crossover points. With that info it would be easy for UiiSii, Xiomi, etc. to run some math and figure out the capacitor values to implement the same crossover given their own drivers' impedance.


Any competent electronic engineer can figure out those values or open it and measure the values of the RC circuit. It is not rocket science.


----------



## MyPants

phower said:


> Any competent electronic engineer can figure out those values or open it and measure the values of the RC circuit. It is not rocket science.


True and it is China... So screw em then and give me a diagram so we know how they're different. Lookin' at you, KZ...


----------



## hydroid

toddy0191 said:


> Received mine this afternoon,  had a quick listen and am liking what I hear.  Bass is very prominent and they don't seem like treble cannons.
> 
> Will keep listening tonight at some point.
> 
> Really like the look of them in cyan!



Great to know this while waiting for my cyan order from gearbest. Hopefully it's an upgrade of my well loved zst..


----------



## GamerGuppy (May 24, 2018)

After my first KZ, the ZS6, I decided to order a few more to get a feeling for the different sound signatures. Also with the ZS6 I started my journey into IEM's. I have always been an audio enthousiast and mainly use an HD580 with O2 amp for at home listening and use a Oppo PM-3 with dragonfly for on-the-go. Somehow I never considered IEMS since I thought them to be fragile. However the cheap replacable cables of KZ caused me to reconsider my opinion on IEMS.


Spoiler: KZ-ZST + aptX bluetooth cable









I ordered a ZST and TRN bluetooth cable with APTX codec. I plan to use it for running. I do find the ZST to be very comfortable. It is a bit early to have first impressions since I haven't used it for more then half an hour. Though the ZST is by far not as detailed as the ZS6 and is a bit bassy to my liking, it might still be the best bluetooth inears I've ever used. The sound is much more then I expected from bluetooth at this price point. In hindsight I might have prefered the black version since it goes better together with the black bluetooth cable. But no regrets.





Spoiler: White KZ ZSR








I ordered the white ZSR since the consensus here is that it does not share the same sibilance the ZS6 has. Especially with the spinfit ear tips it's eye candy. From some angles it reminds me of pulled molars however. I did have some comfort issues at first though. Especially due to the ZSR having extremely long nozzles and the fact that spinfits can not be pushed all the way down to where the nozzle starts. This way the spinfits extend the already long nozzle, causing an extremely uncomfortable fit for me. With the starline and sillicone new-bee tips however, the ZSR somehow doesn't remain very well in my ears. Which is strange, since I have never had trouble with the fit of the ZS6 with any of these tips. So far I only like the ZSR with the New Bee Foam tips, comfort wise. I hope they don't alter the (already tamed) highs too much.



I might try to include some more detailed impressions when I have had more time to compare them all. However, most of you are quite familiar with these already. Untill then, stay Yin & Yang everybody.


Spoiler: Yin and Yang


----------



## Slater

phower said:


> Any competent electronic engineer can figure out those values or open it and measure the values of the RC circuit. It is not rocket science.


----------



## benedium

I think some KZ models like ED16, or what not, are made up by other sellers and not official models from KZ factory/office. I prefer to check KZ official store or the other more reputable stores on aliexpress.


----------



## KainHighwind

toddy0191 said:


> Received mine this afternoon,  had a quick listen and am liking what I hear.  Bass is very prominent and they don't seem like treble cannons.
> 
> Will keep listening tonight at some point.
> 
> Really like the look of them in cyan!



After some hours, what do you think about ES4? Do you prefer it over ZSR?


----------



## Dickymint

I noticed a few mentions of sibilance with the ZS6, I to found this but by changing to the silver cable, even the basic one KZ sell, the sibilance just disappeared, before my very ears! No seriously, it made one heck of a difference! I also use the better silver cable on my ZS10's which I believe make a difference as well. Call the "Newest KZ ZST cable; It doesn't fit the ZS6 though and I don't seem to be able to find one of these for that model! Shame really.


----------



## Slater (May 25, 2018)

Dickymint said:


> I noticed a few mentions of sibilance with the ZS6, I to found this but by changing to the silver cable, even the basic one KZ sell, the sibilance just disappeared, before my very ears! No seriously, it made one heck of a difference! I also use the better silver cable on my ZS10's which I believe make a difference as well. Call the "Newest KZ ZST cable; It doesn't fit the ZS6 though and I don't seem to be able to find one of these for that model! Shame really.



The KZ and TRN cable have slightly different impedance values, and it is this impedance change that tweaks the amount of treble in the ZS6 (to a degree).

On the ZS6, higher impedance = less treble (and less perceived sibilance).

Be aware this isn't a universal rule, and varies by IEM. On some IEMs, treble actually *increases* as impedance goes up.

The 8-wire braided cable you posted a photo of is kind of in the middle-ish range. If you want an even greater treble-reducing effect on the ZS6, switch to the stock ZS3 cable, the stock ZS6 cable, or to one of the TRN cables (black or silver).

These posts have some good information about it, as well as a summary of the impedance measurements of most upgrade cables to date:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1925#post-14087353
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1924#post-14085706
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1563#post-13783224
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853


----------



## FauDrei

From my experience - single crystal (OCC, UPOCC...) cables in litz topology DO help with general clarity and with sibilance issues.

At least - they helped on all headphones I've recabled to OCC/litz...


----------



## KipNix

B9Scrambler said:


> The ZS3's crushed sound tube issue was the reason for the ZS3's early recall and delayed shipment.


I decided to look at mine for this issue. Nah, I just wanted to do the mod for taking the screen out, actually. 
So I took the screen out of one and lo, and behold: the tube was crushed. It looked like wadded up laundry in a clothes dryer. 

So I prodded, pushed, and made the tube to be "O" shaped again. I checked the other side and it was the same thing. Onward for checking the small vent hole. 
I could barely get a needle inside the hole, which tells me it was glued over. The other side was glued shut, too.  I worked the needle around and was able to fix both. 

A listening test was in order and holy "d*mn the torpedoes", I'm getting great sound now. I'm hearing what the original designers meant to accomplish with this model. 
I won't do a review; only to say the freqs blocked were restored. Mids, upper mids, and highs sound beautiful. 

Will I buy from KZ again? Definitely, because this was a QC issue and I like the KZ designs. I know what to look for now, thanks to the good techs in here.


----------



## Drakis

KipNix said:


> I decided to look at mine for this issue. Nah, I just wanted to do the mod for taking the screen out, actually.
> So I took the screen out of one and lo, and behold: the tube was crushed. It looked like wadded up laundry in a clothes dryer.
> 
> So I prodded, pushed, and made the tube to be "O" shaped again. I checked the other side and it was the same thing. Onward for checking the small vent hole.
> ...



Hi

I have ZS3's also, but no crushed tube.
They are out of phase.... W8, i checked the cables, they are correctly connected.
I even connected them incorrectly, but the out of phase continues. I think it is wrongly wired internally.


----------



## durwood (May 25, 2018)

Drakis said:


> Hi
> 
> I have ZS3's also, but no crushed tube.
> They are out of phase.... W8, i checked the cables, they are correctly connected.
> I even connected them incorrectly, but the out of phase continues. I think it is wrongly wired internally.



That doesn't make sense. If they are out of phase reversing the 2 pin on one side only will fix it. Of course if you switch both sides it will remain out of phase. Are you switching both sides? My ZS3 is wired out of phase, luckily it uses the straight cable so it is easy to fix and still use them even if the plug doesn't go all the way in on the reversed side. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I don't think anyone has any cases of the cable being wrong on any detachable cable KZ IEM's, only internal wiring in the actual earphone is wrong.


----------



## Drakis

durwood said:


> That doesn't make sense. If they are out of phase reversing the 2 pin on one side only will fix it. Of course if you switch both sides it will remain out of phase. Are you switching both sides? My ZS3 is wired out of phase, luckily it uses the straight cable so it is easy to fix and still use them even if the plug doesn't go all the way in on the reversed side. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I don't think anyone has any cases of the cable being wrong on any detachable cable KZ IEM's, only internal wiring in the actual earphone is wrong.



Duhhhhhhhhhhh. I was switching both sides! My bad.


----------



## pbui44 (May 25, 2018)

Drakis said:


> Duhhhhhhhhhhh. I was switching both sides! My bad.



When using IEMs (I have used quite a few), I remember:

L - Left - B - Blue or Black - B - Bump (No need for B when distinguishing sides, unless it’s vinyl or multiple-part-media)

R - Right - R - Red - C - Clean (No need for C when distinguishing sides, unless your media has multiple parts to a complete album)

If there is not enough lighting to see anything, unless you are at home or some place that you trust, you should not be listening to music, anyways.  Too many people losing IEMs at a bar, car, airport, train, airplane, or other place where they are not staying or not familiar with the surroundings,

As you can see, I have used many different types of media and different types of listening tools, so this is what I currently use for IEMs and hope this can be useful for you.


----------



## toddy0191

KainHighwind said:


> After some hours, what do you think about ES4? Do you prefer it over ZSR?



Haven't had much time with them yet as bought a replacement set of ZS10s (which I LOVE) after one side breaking. Have been listening to them more.

I don't own the ZSRs but after brief listening they are very similar in sound signature to the ZS10s just not as detailed with a smaller soundstage and more prominent bass.

They're definitely keepers but when I get more time with them will try and be more specific.


----------



## toddy0191

KainHighwind said:


> After some hours, what do you think about ES4? Do you prefer it over ZSR?



Haven't had much time with them yet as bought a replacement set of ZS10s (which I LOVE) after one side breaking. Have been listening to them more.

I don't own the ZSRs but after brief listening they are very similar in sound signature to the ZS10s just not as detailed with a smaller soundstage and more prominent bass.

They're definitely keepers but when I get more time with them will try and be more specific.


----------



## KainHighwind

toddy0191 said:


> Haven't had much time with them yet as bought a replacement set of ZS10s (which I LOVE) after one side breaking. Have been listening to them more.
> 
> I don't own the ZSRs but after brief listening they are very similar in sound signature to the ZS10s just not as detailed with a smaller soundstage and more prominent bass.
> 
> They're definitely keepers but when I get more time with them will try and be more specific.



Ok thanks, the only ES4 review is on thephonograph and they even rank ES4 higher than ZS10 so I really curious about ES4, tempting to buy it but want to hear more review.


----------



## gazzington

Would anybody here let me know how the kz zs10 compares to iems like ibasso it01 or fiio fh1


----------



## rayliam80

gazzington said:


> Would anybody here let me know how the kz zs10 compares to iems like ibasso it01 or fiio fh1



In terms of the IT01 and the ZS10, on my sources, the IT01 is much more detailed and seems more lively and more airy. Individual instruments feel much more dynamic. But the soundstage seems to be similar but the IT01 has more depth. The IT01 handles treble extension much better and in comparison, the ZS10 sounds veiled. Vocals also seem a bit more upfront on the IT01. Mids are thicker and more lush on the IT0. Bass on the IT01 feels much more present too and detailed. When AB'ing, the overall presentation of the IT01 is the clear winner.


----------



## SciOC

rayliam80 said:


> In terms of the IT01 and the ZS10, on my sources, the IT01 is much more detailed and seems more lively and more airy. Individual instruments feel much more dynamic. But the soundstage seems to be similar but the IT01 has more depth. The IT01 handles treble extension much better and in comparison, the ZS10 sounds veiled. Vocals also seem a bit more upfront on the IT01. Mids are thicker and more lush on the IT0. Bass on the IT01 feels much more present too and detailed. When AB'ing, the overall presentation of the IT01 is the clear winner.


Mids/vocals are definitely recessed compared to the it01.  Overall I think that with proper EQ the zs10 is almost as good as the it01 and in some ways better (separation, layering).    But the it01 is a lot more coherent and forgiving.  The zs10 takes a lot of tweaking with EQ to make it sound cohesive, the it01 sounds good with no tweaking.


----------



## rayliam80 (May 25, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> In terms of the IT01 and the ZS10, on my sources, the IT01 is much more detailed and seems more lively and more airy. Individual instruments feel much more dynamic. But the soundstage seems to be similar but the IT01 has more depth. The IT01 handles treble extension much better and in comparison, the ZS10 sounds veiled. Vocals also seem a bit more upfront on the IT01. Mids are thicker and more lush on the IT0. Bass on the IT01 feels much more present too and detailed. When AB'ing, the overall presentation of the IT01 is the clear winner.



In some way I would like to take back what I said. Tip roll with the ZS10. My comment was made using the stock KZ starline tips. I switched to Auvio S wide bore. The ZS10 sounds less congested and airy, now closer to the IT01. I should also mention with the impression I just wrote, I was using a black 8 core SPC cable you can find on Aliexpress. The IT01 was used with it's stock cable and Auvio M wide bore tips. I get a looser seal with the Auvio S tips with the IT01 but the ZS10 seal is just right with the S size. Maybe a difference in the nozzle diameters or the size of the shells. The IT01 now just seems slightly better now. If you can get the ZS10 on sale and use a different cable and do some tip rolling, it's really a satisfying IEM for the money.

Auvio M Tips at Radioshack. 

Auvio S Tips at Radioshack.


----------



## mbwilson111

SciOC said:


> The zs10 takes a lot of tweaking with EQ to make it sound cohesive, the it01 sounds good with no tweaking.



I think my ZS10 sounds good with no tweaking....and the IT01 does as well.  Using stock tips with both.  Maybe my ear canals just work well with IEMs... or maybe I am just not discerning enough.


----------



## stryed

rayliam80 said:


> In some way I would like to take back what I said about. Tip roll with the ZS10. My comment was made using the stock KZ starline tips. I switched to Auvio S wide bore. The ZS10 sounds less congested and airy, now closer to the IT01. I should also mention with the impression I just wrote, I was using a black 8 core SPC cable you can find on Aliexpress. The IT01 was used with it's stock cable and Auvio M wide bore tips. I get a looser seal with the Auvio S tips with the IT01 but the ZS10 seal is just right with the S size. Maybe a difference in the nozzle diameters or the size of the shells. The IT01 now just seems slightly better now. If you can get the ZS10 on sale and use a different cable and do some tip rolling, it's really a satisfying IEM for the money.
> 
> Auvio M Tips at Radioshack.
> 
> Auvio S Tips at Radioshack.



Definitely was not impressed with KZ ZS5 with the stock tips. Wide bore is enjoyable enough for me to switch from IT01 to KZ ZS5v2 easily. Would not walk in the rain with my IT01 and was really happy with the KZ5 today   Isolation isn't that great on the KZ5, so I worry about the KZ6 and its open back layout. 
Is isolation worse on the KZ6?


----------



## rayliam80

stryed said:


> Definitely was not impressed with KZ ZS5 with the stock tips. Wide bore is enjoyable enough for me to switch from IT01 to KZ ZS5v2 easily. Would not walk in the rain with my IT01 and was really happy with the KZ5 today   Isolation isn't that great on the KZ5, so I worry about the KZ6 and its open back layout.
> Is isolation worse on the KZ6?



I've used my KZ6 mostly in quiet environments lately. It doesn't seem abnormally un-isolated for an IEM. Also, I mostly use triple flange tips with the ZS6 (mainly for sound preferences not fit issues) so that may be why I feel this way about them being at minimum, average, in isolation. Perhaps someone else can chime in.


----------



## Vestat

toddy0191 said:


> Haven't had much time with them yet as bought a replacement set of ZS10s (which I LOVE) after one side breaking. Have been listening to them more.
> 
> I don't own the ZSRs but after brief listening they are very similar in sound signature to the ZS10s just not as detailed with a smaller soundstage and more prominent bass.
> 
> They're definitely keepers but when I get more time with them will try and be more specific.



Thanks for your opinion.. decided to give them a shot considering the price and the first impressions. I will report as long as I get them with the delivery from china.. hopefully before ZS18 will be unveiled.


----------



## gazzington

mbwilson111 said:


> I think my ZS10 sounds good with no tweaking....and the IT01 does as well.  Using stock tips with both.  Maybe my ear canals just work well with IEMs... or maybe I am just not discerning enough.


Is it worth me spending the extra on it01 or I could buy kz zs10 and zs6 for roughly same amount?


----------



## Slater (May 26, 2018)

gazzington said:


> Is it worth me spending the extra on it01 or I could buy kz zs10 and zs6 for roughly same amount?



If you're saying you have a $100 budget, and would it be better to have the IT01 or both the ZS10 and ZS6...I would jump all over the IT01.

The cable of the IT01 alone is worth at least $50 by itself, and just proves the extreme quality if iBasso. I bought a spare IT01 cable just to use on other MMCX IEMs it's so nice.


----------



## mkwhai

I have question, I think about buy KZ ES4 but I have KZ ZST now and I feel uncomfortable and fall out from ear with it. What do you think, case it's similar to ZST? 

For me ZSR it's a super comfortable but left earphone play quieter now and I search something new.


----------



## Slater (May 26, 2018)

mkwhai said:


> I have question, I think about buy KZ ES4 but I have KZ ZST now and I feel uncomfortable and fall out from ear with it. What do you think, case it's similar to ZST?
> 
> For me ZSR it's a super comfortable but left earphone play quieter now and I search something new.



What tips are you using with the ZST? Have you tried Starline tips, or going 1 size larger to prevent them from falling out?

The ZST body is a lot smaller compared to the ZSR, so I'm a little surprised that you're having fit issues with the ZST.

The ZSA is pretty compact; perhaps that would work for you? Also, the EDR1 is a cylindrical piston style earphone, and I know that would fit well. It sounds amazing too, and is only about $4usd!


----------



## zazaboy

Anyone has info that KZ changed there tuning in KZ zs10 .. Which means we have a v2.. @Otto Motor says that Chinese audio forums claims that they changed it which results in a v2 with different tuning


----------



## Bartig

We’re relying on one source on a forum we don’t read - and the mentioned changes aren’t even announced, let alone tested and compared. I think we’re all going a little too fast on this.


----------



## mkwhai

Slater said:


> What tips are you using with the ZST? Have you tried Starline tips, or going 1 size larger to prevent them from falling out?
> 
> The ZST body is a lot smaller compared to the ZSR, so I'm a little surprised that you're having fit issues with the ZST.
> 
> The ZSA is pretty compact; perhaps that would work for you? Also, the EDR1 is a cylindrical piston style earphone, and I know that would fit well. It sounds amazing too, and is only about $4usd!



I tried different tips, Starlines, KZ tips with blue core and red core, foam tips, silicon from Zircons and any other. I resigned now from try with ZST, this not for my ears.


----------



## CYoung234

mbwilson111 said:


> I think my ZS10 sounds good with no tweaking....and the IT01 does as well.  Using stock tips with both.  Maybe my ear canals just work well with IEMs... or maybe I am just not discerning enough.



I do not think it is that you are not discerning enough. I appreciate your observations as well as your husbands. Let me explain it this way. As a musician, I was trained in what was called freedom through discipline. By training yourself to play an instrument so well that the process became automatic, so you did not need to think about how to do things technically, you could focus your efforts on making music. Because you are listening to the music, you do not need to concentrate on the technical aspects of the equipment, but instead just focus on experiencing the music. For me, the best equipment is the equipment that just gets out of the way, and lets you focus on the music.

So, when I read your posts, that is what I am seeing - you are focused on the music and not the equipment.


----------



## mbwilson111

CYoung234 said:


> So, when I read your posts, that is what I am seeing - you are focused on the music and not the equipment.



Yes.  I have loved music since I was a small child.  When people ask me to compare things I often get lost in the music and forget to try to compare.  If I do try I cannot enjoy the music so it becomes a chore...that I often put off.

The reason I have so much...too much ...is not because I am dissatisfied...it is because I am curious and some things just look cool 

Off topic:  My husband and I met through music. He is a musician, I am not.  I wish I was a drummer


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> ...  I wish I was a drummer



It’s never too late to start!

Look up Mike Boyd on YouTube. The guy is amazing. One of my favorite YouTube people, and very inspirational.


----------



## SciOC

mbwilson111 said:


> I think my ZS10 sounds good with no tweaking....and the IT01 does as well.  Using stock tips with both.  Maybe my ear canals just work well with IEMs... or maybe I am just not discerning enough.


I doubt it's about not being discerning...  As yanny versus Laurel proved, we all hear differently  I listen to a lot of different sets most days and switch a lot and generally prefer IEMs to closed or open headphones.  The staging experience is more natural to me (all headphones have inaccurate staging, but I like the way IEMs tend to stage).   When I listen to the zs10 for longer periods of time, I get used to it and like the sound, even when not using EQ.  EQ'd it's pretty great for the price.

Part of why I love this as a hobby is that I tend to like everything I try.....  I mainly complain about sets I think are bad values, like the oppo pm-3, which all things considered still sounds pretty good, just not for the price.  Rarely do I find something I think is a pure disappointment...

The one thing I definitely notice about the zs10 when I switch to it is that the drivers, at least between the DD and BAs, do not match up very well and the DD overpowers the BAs in the transition range and has a different timbre.  You are definitely aware (at least until you get used to it) that there are multiple drivers that are not exactly smooth in their transition. With some tweaking it's a great set that I can get to sound about 90% of my brainwavz b400 (but with deeper bass)....


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Used my Zs10s for the past 2 weeks at work. They are in my ears from 9-10am till 3-4pm everyday. I used them exclusively with Sony NW-A45 Walkman EQ'd with the upper mids being brought down a bit to squash that nasty spike. That spike causes female vocals to be brash and hairy, and male vocals to be thin and boxy. Sounds like your listening to the Michigan Rag on an AM radio with old paper cone speakers to me.
For tips, I switched to a wide bore tip that fits all the way down to the plastic body with he screen being almost even with the end of the tip. Don't know what tips they are. I used to have all my tips in little plastic baggies marked with markers on what they are, but it got to be overwhelming and I just dumped them into one of the little small parts divider boxes. 

Anyway, After the EQ and the tips the phones sound really natural and warm. I am almost completely satisfied. Listening to Johnny Cash, The Cranberries, Tanya Donelly, Ziggy Marley, David Gilmour, I can say that vocals are still forwards present with the roughness smoothed out and a bit a warmth added to them. 

As long as these last I will be wearing them at work this summer.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes.  I have loved music since I was a small child.  When people ask me to compare things I often get lost in the music and forget to try to compare.  If I do try I cannot enjoy the music so it becomes a chore...that I often put off.
> 
> The reason I have so much...too much ...is not because I am dissatisfied...it is because I am curious and some things just look cool
> 
> Off topic:  My husband and I met through music. He is a musician, I am not.  I wish I was a drummer


----------



## phower

BadReligionPunk said:


> Used my Zs10s for the past 2 weeks at work. They are in my ears from 9-10am till 3-4pm everyday.


I have read that using IEM continuously increases the temperature in the ear canal and promotes bacterial growth. The body tries to fight it with inflammation which results in gradual loss of hearing.

Something to keep in mind and take regular breaks in usage.


----------



## romanrex

Tested KZ ZS6

Simple test reports for "dummies"
Open
Close


Professional tests report:
Open
Close


On-line comparison services with KZ ZS6

Comparison of frequency response

Comparison of change the frequency response of joint work of KZ ZS6 with different amplifiers

Comparison of change of SPL and frequency response depending on the applied voltage level and the impedance of the audio source

Definition of optimal voltage level for certain SPL which amplifier must be provided

Comparison of characteristics:
Open
Close

KZ ZS6 included in list for sound source (smartphones, DAPs, AMPs, etc.) match to headphones for certain listening conditions:
Open
Close


----------



## BadReligionPunk

phower said:


> I have read that using IEM continuously increases the temperature in the ear canal and promotes bacterial growth. The body tries to fight it with inflammation which results in gradual loss of hearing.
> 
> Something to keep in mind and take regular breaks in usage.



Yea, I'm a delivery truck driver so I do mostly take them out when at a location where I will have to converse with other humans. Any specific article or study you read that I can read also? I would be interested in this as during the summer I am almost strictly in ear. While I prefer headphones, its just way to hot to wear comfortably in summer where its normally 95 with 60% humidity.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 26, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea, I'm a delivery truck driver so I do mostly take them out when at a location where I will have to converse with other humans




I did not know it was legal to drive with iems in.

As for taking them in and out a lot, that is what irritates my ears the most.  If I have to try several tips on a new iem, I can't wear iems at all the next day.

Buds are great when it is hot and when you don't want isolation...like right now I am waiting for an Amazon delivery and don't want to miss the doorbell. There are some amazing buds these days.

The delivery is not audio related...this time


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> I did not know it was legal to drive with iems in.
> 
> As for taking them in and out a lot, that is what irritates my ears the most.  If I have to try several tips on a new iem, I can't wear iems at all the next day.
> 
> ...



Depends on individual states. Most states including the one I live in is 100% legal to wear. The next state over, where I also drive quite a bit is only legal if Bluetooth hands free or corded in/on one ear.


----------



## buke9

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea, I'm a delivery truck driver so I do mostly take them out when at a location where I will have to converse with other humans. Any specific article or study you read that I can read also? I would be interested in this as during the summer I am almost strictly in ear. While I prefer headphones, its just way to hot to wear comfortably in summer where its normally 95 with 60% humidity.


 A bit off topic but there is a meet in East St. Louis at JDS Labs on the 9th of June just a heads up.

Also I don’t feel the bass overwhelms the mids on th ZS10’s at all. I find the separation to be quite good. Yes they have good bass but still don’t think it steps on the lower mids to me they are there and just fine.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Depends on individual states. Most states including the one I live in is 100% legal to wear. The next state over, where I also drive quite a bit is only legal if Bluetooth hands free or corded in/on one ear.



I think it is illegal here.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## buke9

I see too many people driving with earbuds in and I don’t think it is too safe. Even without the distraction most drivers are oblivious to their surroundings and don’t need another. You need to hear emergency vehicles. Yes I know people with loud stereos in their car can’t hear either and I agree that is a problem also. Too many people take driving too unserious it is one of the biggest killers in the US. Not trying to preach just have to say it is not totally safe.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> It’s never too late to start!
> 
> Look up Mike Boyd on YouTube. The guy is amazing. One of my favorite YouTube people, and very inspirational.



Just looked him up... I thought he would be a musician


----------



## toddy0191

mbwilson111 said:


> I think it is illegal here.  Someone correct me if I am wrong.



I tried to research this before and couldn't find an answer. 

I am guilty of using iems whilst driving,  but am very aware of emergency vehicles due to their lights.  You can legally drive if you're hearing impaired, so can't see why it's an issue.

@Vidal mentored he drives with full sized headphones on!!


----------



## mbwilson111

toddy0191 said:


> You can legally drive if you're hearing impaired,



But a hearing impaired person is used to compensating for that at all times.


----------



## buke9

Wrong thread sorry .


----------



## toddy0191

mbwilson111 said:


> But a hearing impaired person is used to compensating for that at all times.



As are headphone purchasing resistance impaired people like ourselves


----------



## buke9

toddy0191 said:


> As are headphone purchasing resistance impaired people like ourselves


 Man my wife wished I was one of those.


----------



## Vestat

BadReligionPunk said:


> Depends on individual states. Most states including the one I live in is 100% legal to wear. The next state over, where I also drive quite a bit is only legal if Bluetooth hands free or corded in/on one ear.



I'm from EU and I'm sure 100% its heavily illegal. Like deaf people can't have a driving licence at all. So there is no reason why total isolation, provided by iems, should be somehow allowed.
Ethically speaking, can't really think about somebody driving totally isolated from the environment. I find it's scary dangerous.


----------



## Slater (May 26, 2018)

buke9 said:


> I see too many people driving with earbuds in and I don’t think it is too safe. Even without the distraction most drivers are oblivious to their surroundings and don’t need another. You need to hear emergency vehicles. Yes I know people with loud stereos in their car can’t hear either and I agree that is a problem also. Too many people take driving too unserious it is one of the biggest killers in the US. Not trying to preach just have to say it is not totally safe.



It’s actually totally illegal in a lot of states in the US.

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/10/31/is-it-legal-to-wear-headphones-while-driving/

No headphones, earbuds, IEMs, ear plugs, or anything else that blocks your hearing at all. Most police that see those people, pull them over in a heartbeat.

I’m sure if you got into an accident, and it was proven you were wearing headphones, the prosecutor would roast you and paint you as a wreckless “distracted driver”.


----------



## buke9

Slater said:


> It’s actually totally illegal in most if not all states in the US.
> 
> No headphones, earbuds, IEMs, ear plugs, or anything else that blocks your hearing at all. Most police that see those people, pull them over in a heartbeat.
> 
> The only exceptions are hearing aides etc and ear muffs in winter.


 As it should be.Driving a vehicle is a privilege and not a right.


----------



## toddy0191 (May 26, 2018)

buke9 said:


> As it should be.Driving a vehicle is a privilege and not a right.



It's not illegal in the UK but could be deemed to be driving without due care and attention.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/422...ones-on-to-the-number-of-drinks-you-can-have/

I am one of the most careful drivers I know.  A lot people speed in the UK and I consistently see people eating, putting on makeup, talking on their phones, things I would never do.

You all have a valid point though and I'll refrain from doing it from now on. (Feel awful now!!!)

On another note, I find these tips work very well with the ZS10s as I have driver flex issues with the starlines. They also improve isolation.


----------



## buke9

I think the ZS10’s are a good earphone.


----------



## groucho69

buke9 said:


> Wrong thread sorry .



I never do that...anymore...well not since the last time...at least 2 days ago...maybe more


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> It’s actually totally illegal in a lot of states in the US.
> 
> https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/10/31/is-it-legal-to-wear-headphones-while-driving/
> 
> ...



And I doubt your insurance would cover you.


----------



## tnelmo (May 26, 2018)

HerrXRDS said:


> Does anyone know if I can buy the small tips from this set separately. At 9mm these are the smallest I've found, everything else 11mm and up. I want to buy a bag of them but I can only find them in this set.



I just received this set of KZ memory foam tips.  The small size is my preference as well.  The only place I can find to order multiples of the small size is this listing on the bay:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-3-Pair...hash=item25cae356e1:m:mNYY5mAYad0ufmrabcOEeEA   Unfortunately, it doesn't list the diameter, so their small could easily be 11mm, as I've seen from other brands with the inner tube.  Does anyone have a contact with KZ that could inquire as to whether their 9mm is available in quantity?

Edit:  Perhaps another brand's 11mm that compresses more or stays compressed longer would still be comfortable.  If you try these or others and like them, please let me know, as we prefer the same size.  There are several places to order 11mm in quantity and probably at lower prices.


----------



## Emelya

tnelmo said:


> I just received this set of KZ memory foam tips.  The small size is my preference as well.  The only place I can find to order multiples of the small size is this listing on the bay:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-3-Pair...hash=item25cae356e1:m:mNYY5mAYad0ufmrabcOEeEA   Unfortunately, it doesn't list the diameter, so their small could easily be 11mm, as I've seen from other brands with the inner tube.  Does anyone have a contact with KZ that could inquire as to whether their 9mm is available in quantity?
> 
> Edit:  Perhaps another brand's 11mm that compresses more or stays compressed longer would still be comfortable.  If you try these or others and like them, please let me know, as we prefer the same size.  There are several places to order 11mm in quantity and probably at lower prices.


I'm afraid that 9mm ear tips are available in this set only. But you can contact the seller directly before the purchase and ask if it is possible to send only 9mm small tips.
Or just try this seller: https://greensense.aliexpress.com/store/323026
It seems to be a supplier or factory store.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> It’s actually totally illegal in a lot of states in the US.
> 
> https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/10/31/is-it-legal-to-wear-headphones-while-driving/
> 
> ...



Its only "mostly" illegal in like 4 states...


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 26, 2018)

BTW. Read up on Docs reviews of EDR1, EDSE and EDR2. So I bought the EDSE and the EDR2, and the ED3, ED4, ED7. Already received my ED8's last week. Those things are legit. Anyway still enamored by the EDR1's. Don't know when I will have the time to dedicate to the new stuff when it arrives, but I will try lol. The EDR1's pair beautifully with Cayin N5. EDR1 and VE Monks for everyone this year at Christmas!

Had to get back on topic.


----------



## buke9

Yes some one was wanting earphones for riding a motorcycle and I don’t think it’s too safe replied to the wrong thread sorry about that even if it wasn’t a pair of KZ’s. Sorry it wasn’t he wanted to spend $1k to not hear to his demise.


----------



## Asimov90

Where are the ES4 reviews??? I'm dying to read them!


----------



## HungryPanda

ES4 better than ES3. Much better


----------



## Deveraux

HungryPanda said:


> ES4 better than ES3. Much better



Upgrade from ZS5 v1 then?


----------



## ostewart

Here's my take on the ZS10, with a comparison to the ZS5 v1: http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2018/05/review-kz-zs10-5-driver-hybrid-on-budget.html


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

buke9 said:


> Yes some one was wanting earphones for riding a motorcycle and I don’t think it’s too safe replied to the wrong thread sorry about that even if it wasn’t a pair of KZ’s. Sorry it wasn’t he wanted to spend $1k to not hear to his demise.


I live in India and here you can see a lot of motorcycles. A lot of guys think that its cool to wear earphones while riding bikes and they all ride at very high speeds in an already insanely dangerous traffic situation involving narrow lanes, buses, trucks and whatnot.


----------



## buke9

ostewart said:


> Here's my take on the ZS10, with a comparison to the ZS5 v1: http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2018/05/review-kz-zs10-5-driver-hybrid-on-budget.html


 Nice review. I have to say I agree pretty much on your impressions too. Don’t have the ZS5’s so can’t comment on that but do have the 3’s ,6’s Zstand ATE’s and think this is their best offering yet. Good short and to the point review.


----------



## paulindss (May 27, 2018)

Received my KZ ZSR. And i can say that it is a very good iem.

The thing is, various people seems to find zsr better than zs10. It's not my case. I find zs10 superior in every aspect. A safe upgrade over zsr, for me. Zsr even sounds redundant in my collection. I find the layering and details much better in zs10. And the bigger "soundstage" of zsr for me seems useless. Just like a poorer detail presentation, having harsher highs, while having less definition, more empty space, if that makes any sense. The mids are ok and a little fuller than ZSR. But the highs kill all the smoothness and naturalness that zs10 manage to get. Even with recessed mids. Overall i find zs10 more mature souding. Much, much more revealing considering the whole spectrum.

For the 16$ i payed. It's punching way above its price. The fit is also awesome. It hurts my ears a little. But its perfect on the go. Isolates everything.


----------



## mbwilson111

paulindss said:


> Received my KZ ZSR. And i can say that it is a very good iem.
> 
> The thing is, various people seems to find zsr better than zs10. It's not my case. I find zs10 superior in every aspect. A safe upgrade over zsr, for me. Zsr even sounds redundant in my collection. I find the layering and details much better in zs10. And the bigger "soundstage" of zsr for me seems useless. Just like a poorer detail presentation, having harsher highs, while having less definition, more empty space, if that makes any sense. The mids are ok and a little fuller than ZSR. But the highs kill all the smoothness and naturalness that zs10 manage to get. Even with recessed mids. Overall i find zs10 more mature souding. Much, much more revealing considering the whole spectrum.
> 
> For the 16$ i payed. It's punching way above its price. The fit is also awesome. It hurts my ears a little. But its perfect on the go. Isolates everything



...and my ZSR is the pretty translucent green.  My ZS10 is the red.  So neither is redundant

Yes, I am that shallow.  Ear jewelry.  Can hardly wait until that purple one is released...but I do hope it will sound decent.


----------



## paulindss

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and my ZSR is the pretty translucent green.  My ZS10 is the red.  So neither is redundant
> 
> Yes, I am that shallow.  Ear jewelry.  Can hardly wait until that purple one is released...but I do hope it will sound decent.



Haha, i find it fair ! About the looks, i was positively impressed by the black zsr. It has a glossy finish. Its actually good lookin. And the cable is also very very good. The downside being the memory wire. The new braided kz zs10 cable is a nightmare. It tangles so easily !!!


----------



## mbwilson111

paulindss said:


> The new braided kz zs10 cable is a nightmare. It tangles so easily !!!



Sadly it does.  I am carefull how I coil it up and use one of those leather snap thingies and a larger case.  That helps but have you noticed that the length from the iem to the Y split is super long?  Way too long.  that is one reason it tangles.  Should be shorter AND have a chin slider.


----------



## buke9

Agree although a chin slider would not work as mine has a mic.


----------



## mbwilson111

buke9 said:


> Agree although a chin slider would not work as mine has a mic.



You don't have to slide it all the way up...


----------



## buke9

Yes and you can get small little rubber band for a slider.


----------



## mbwilson111

buke9 said:


> Yes and you can get small little rubber band for a slider.



I would want it to look good...not just look like a rubber band


----------



## fenderbendr

Is there a longer version of this cable for the ZS3’s?  

Easy KZ ZS3 ZS5 0.75mm 2 pin Upgrade Silver Plate Replacement Earphones Cable for KZ Earphones (silver) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWL9S2E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_zKTcBb83F6QH4


----------



## buke9

You would have to buy 500 but it would look good.
https://doublehelixcables.com/product/dhc-microtubule-silicone-iem-slider-pack-of-500/


----------



## mbwilson111

buke9 said:


> You would have to buy 500 but it would look good.
> https://doublehelixcables.com/product/dhc-microtubule-silicone-iem-slider-pack-of-500/



 Well that would last a long time... lol

Maybe I will try a bit of black electrical tape


----------



## buke9

Damn girl you said it would have to look nice. Black electrical tape really?


----------



## mbwilson111

buke9 said:


> Damn girl you said it would have to look nice. Black electrical tape really?



I have a roll of shiny black...


----------



## buke9

There was a big smiley on that last post.


----------



## buke9

I have a roll of green but would have to wait till Christmas for that but it would be nice; )


----------



## Vestat

I don't like apple and their products. But this is probably the best solution I found so far to cable tangling.
Incredibly cheap, works with mic. This is what I call Design.


----------



## mbwilson111

buke9 said:


> I have a roll of green but would have to wait till Christmas for that but it would be nice; )



I have black, white, red, blue, green, and yellow.... all shiny


----------



## maxxevv

I use twist cables on mine.


----------



## SciOC

If you don't like any of those solutions I flip the cord the long way around the back of my neck, bring it back over the opposite shoulder out front and it kind of serves the same function....


----------



## mbwilson111

maxxevv said:


> I use twist cables on mine.



Great photo!  You have done that very neatly.  I need to find some of that.


----------



## mbwilson111

SciOC said:


> If you don't like any of those solutions I flip the cord the long way around the back of my neck, bring it back over the opposite shoulder out front and it kind of serves the same function....



No thank you!  that reminds me of a nightmarish J cable I once had.  Not a good solution for someone with long hair.  As it is over ear cables get tangled in my hair behind my ear.

If KZ had not made this cable so long and thin above the split, it would have been fine without a slider for me.  I really never use them on a normal cable.


----------



## SciOC

mbwilson111 said:


> No thank you!  that reminds me of a nightmarish J cable I once had.  Not a good solution for someone with long hair.  As it is over ear cables get tangled in my hair behind my ear.
> 
> If KZ had not made this cable so long and thin above the split, it would have been fine without a slider for me.  I really never use them on a normal cable.


Ha, guess I didn't think about the long hair aspect...  Ouch.

I remember those issues back from my long hair days in college.


----------



## buke9

mbwilson111 said:


> I have black, white, red, blue, green, and yellow.... all shiny


 You are most awesome.


----------



## kailashrs

All those complaints about the polarity issues on the zs10 have got me paranoid lol... How do I check if mine have reverse polarity? I mean it sounds great as is to my ears (the greatest iems I've ever used) but still I'm paranoid lol... Tia


----------



## 424358 (May 27, 2018)

My ZSA, ES4, and ZSR came in.

So far the ZSA are awesome.

- small!! These are tiny in comparison to the other models and it’s in a metal housing.

- the sound is pretty much like a ZS6 but I dare say with a wider soundstage. These sound great! I’m in love again. I’ll try with foam tips later.

- the biggest drawbacks are the nozzle, hard to get the seating of the tip right and it’s larger than the other models I think. And the cable, no other cable is working with the insertion right now. It’s specific and I have multiple other KZ cables.

ZSA - small size, BIG and WIDE sound

Listening to feels - jai wolf remix and wow, clear, great layering, wide soundstage. Still a bit recessed on the mids. Imaging is pretty impressive for such a small size.


----------



## Bartig

misterchao said:


> My ZSA, ES4, and ZSR came in.
> 
> So far the ZSA are awesome.
> 
> ...


Wow, now I want more impressions of the ZSA! Have you tried the other two too already?


----------



## rayliam80

misterchao said:


> My ZSA, ES4, and ZSR came in.
> 
> So far the ZSA are awesome.
> 
> ...



Does your ZSA have a lip on the nozzle to secure eartips more? I'm waiting for my ZSA to arrive too.


----------



## Superluc

kailashrs said:


> How do I check if mine have reverse polarity?


https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I would want it to look good...not just look like a rubber band



Keyboard o-ring? In purple?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have a box of plumbers O rings in various sizes


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Keyboard o-ring? In purple?





HungryPanda said:


> I have a box of plumbers O rings in various sizes



I have solved the problem.  I will take a photo in the morning when there is better light.


----------



## Slater (May 27, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have solved the problem.  I will take a photo in the morning when there is better light.



Yes, but is it purple?? That's the all important question hehe

If your solution doesn't work out, maybe give the oring a try. You can use the ones Tom has, or you can buy keyboard orings on ebay and Aliexpress for under $1 for 100 pcs.

The orings also work perfectly as spacers for ear tips, to space the tips out a bit further on certain IEMs.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yes, but is it purple?? That's the all important question hehe



No no... my ZS10 is red.  The solution has to be and is black.


----------



## buke9

My ZS10 is also red.


----------



## 424358 (May 27, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Does your ZSA have a lip on the nozzle to secure eartips more? I'm waiting for my ZSA to arrive too.



I will get pictures up soon. Stay posted.

As for the ES4:

Fit: Bigger than the ZSA but they fit in my ear pretty well. They are secure and are easy to find the right angle. I like how it is flat and can lay on my side pretty easily without discomfort.

Cable: using an upgraded silver cable, it’s not picky like the ZSA.

Sound:

Mids: I think the mids here are very natural, and full. It’s forward(more than ZS6, ZS5) and brings about a balanced/slight U shaped sound.

Bass: not overpowering but punchy. speed and decay are excellent and can rumble when needed. But even with a slight emphasis in bass, the mids still shine through.

Highs: Slightly bright but not fatiguing or unbearable. I think it’s more controlled than my ZS5s.

Soundstage: not very wide but it’s fine in this IEM. Imaging is OK. I think the ZSA and ZS6 beat it in this category due to venting.

Overall - crisp, clear, natural vocals, not so v-shaped, comfortable, great earphone.

If I was to rank it as of now, I have not tried ZS10,

1. ZS6
2. ZSA
3. ES4


----------



## 424358 (May 27, 2018)

There is a lip on the nozzle.

And the size comparison of ZSA to ZS5v2. The size of the nozzle is bigger on the ZSA. So get to stretching those starline tips.


----------



## Zerohour88

Finally some pics of the ED16 in the wild (seller started shipping already, it seems). A few users liked it more than the ZS10, but no detailed impressions so far


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 31, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> Finally some pics of the ED16 in the wild (seller started shipping already, it seems). A few users liked it more than the ZS10, but no detailed impressions so far



That blue is pretty.  I will not be getting one though.  My husband already ordered it in black for himself and I don't like to double up.  There have been some exceptions.  We each have a ZS6 ZST, ZSR and ZS10...in different colors of course.  I love them all except am unsure about the ZST.  Mine seems a bit harsh.

Still waiting for the purple one... .


edited to add...I have acquired the ED16 in black  Sounding good. Smaller than I thought it would be


----------



## KainHighwind

misterchao said:


> I will get pictures up soon. Stay posted.
> 
> As for the ES4:
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impression, I was dying to see more reviews of ES4 after reading its only review on thephonograph...


----------



## Slater (May 27, 2018)

misterchao said:


> There is a lip on the nozzle.
> 
> And the size comparison of ZSA to ZS5v2. The size of the nozzle is bigger on the ZSA. So get to stretching those starline tips.



The nozzles are exactly the same size. The lip in combination with how the nozzle screen attaches just make the ZSA look larger. It's just an optical illusion.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 28, 2018)

misterchao said:


> And the cable, no other cable is working with the insertion right now. It’s specific and I have multiple other KZ cables.





 

Looks like I owe someone an apology (to some degree).



Mikel84 said:


> Received the ZSA today, and I have been comparing it to the kz s5 all day. My findings are these:
> 
> The ZSA are really small, and I prefer the size of the s5's.
> 
> The free cable was a joke, it does not fit. Its a female connector instead of a male.





DocHoliday said:


> Hmmmm......
> 
> Photos please.
> 
> ...





 

While the "Its a female connector instead of a male" comment triggered my response I think that I owe Mikel84 an apology.  Apparently, there do seem to be some issues regarding other cables fitting the ZSA, even if the other cables are KZ cables.


----------



## Vestat

misterchao said:


> As for the ES4:
> 
> Fit: Bigger than the ZSA but they fit in my ear pretty well. They are secure and are easy to find the right angle. I like how it is flat and can lay on my side pretty easily without discomfort.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your review.
The phonograph gives a kind of different opinion considering them almost bass cannons.. I think I will just wait for my ES4 and see by myself what's with those guys.


----------



## CoiL

misterchao said:


> My ZSA, ES4, and ZSR came in.
> 
> So far the ZSA are awesome.
> 
> ...


Damn... need to get these!


----------



## 424358 (May 28, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Thanks for your review.
> The phonograph gives a kind of different opinion considering them almost bass cannons.. I think I will just wait for my ES4 and see by myself what's with those guys.




Using ZS6 as reference for bass, the bass impact of the ZS6 is stronger than the ES4. The vocal clarity is better in the ZS6 but not as pronounced.

The ZSR are bass cannons almost to an unbearable amount.


----------



## toddy0191 (May 28, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Thanks for your review.
> The phonograph gives a kind of different opinion considering them almost bass cannons.. I think I will just wait for my ES4 and see by myself what's with those guys.



They're not quite bass canons but it is elevated and they have have a nice punchy mid bass that doesn't bleed into the mids.


@misterchao opinions are in line with mine aside from I may prefer them to the ZS6 as they sound more natural and thicker in the lower mids.

Had a very good listen last night to Discovery by Daft Punk,  numerous Punk Floyd albums and Dirty Computer by Janelle Monae.  I'm going to go all @mbwilson111 here and leave sound analysis at the door! I got lost in the music and wanted to keep listening to more albums (they're in my ears now), which is as good a review as a set of headphones needs sometimes.

The above was straight out of my S8 with large starlines

Love them!


----------



## Vestat

misterchao said:


> Using ZS6 as reference for bass, the bass impact of the ZS6 is stronger than the ES4. The vocal clarity is better in the ZS6 but not as pronounced.
> 
> The ZSR are bass cannons almost to an unbearable amount.



Ok, That's helping as long as I only have ZS6 from KZ. Was hoping something more like basshead style.. I will see what can I do with EQ when I get them 
The phonograph says that you can get "Out of this world punch and depth in bass and mids" with some EQ. I barely believe that but I'll give it a shot.
Thanks again for your comparison with ZS6, I did not mean to compare your review with the phonograph one, I just pointed out the differences in bass description.



toddy0191 said:


> They're not quite bass canons but it is elevated and they have have a nice punchy mid bass that doesn't bleed into the mids.





toddy0191 said:


> Had a very good listen last night to Discovery by Daft Punk, numerous Punk Floyd albums and Dirty Computer by Janelle Monae. I'm going to go all @mbwilson111 here and leave sound analysis at the door! I got lost in the music and wanted to keep listening to more albums (they're in my ears now), which is as good a review as a set of headphones needs sometimes.



Definitely agree. Most of the times I prefer passions to technical specs and graphs.


----------



## HungryPanda

My left KZA earpiece is wired out of phase, I have had to change cable with straight plugs so as I can reverse left side


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> My left KZA earpiece is wired out of phase, I have had to change cable with straight plugs so as I can reverse left side



I can help you change that around. It’s very easy. Shoot me a PM


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 28, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> ave you noticed that the length from the iem to the Y split is super long? Way too long. that is one reason it tangles. Should be shorter AND have a chin slider.





buke9 said:


> Yes and you can get small little rubber band for a slider.





mbwilson111 said:


> I would want it to look good...not just look like a rubber band





mbwilson111 said:


> I have solved the problem. I will take a photo in the morning when there is better light.



Turns out I had a proper chin slider all along.  A spare came with my MEMT T5.  I wonder if we could get MEMT to sell them.


----------



## HungryPanda

ZSA's now in phase with straight plug reversed on left earpiece. Now they sound mighty for their tiny size


----------



## CoiL

HungryPanda said:


> ZSA's now in phase with straight plug reversed on left earpiece. Now they sound mighty for their tiny size


More impressions please! VS ATE / ZS5v1 / ZST would be nice...


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Anybody in the know on sound difference, if any, between the Blue ed8s and the Red ed8s? I know it was asked about here before I became a KZ enthusiast, but it was only answered by one guy(cant remember name) who said he couldn't tell the difference. Just making sure I don't have to buy in red, which I will probably do anyway, but yea.


----------



## Bartig

HungryPanda said:


> ZSA's now in phase with straight plug reversed on left earpiece. Now they sound mighty for their tiny size


You have so many IEM’s! Can you describe what they flourish in (at least for their price)?


----------



## HungryPanda

Bartig said:


> You have so many IEM’s! Can you describe what they flourish in (at least for their price)?


 The sound is huge for such a small iem, kind of U-shaped, but without the high treble of ZS5 or ZS6. I have listened to pop, electronic and jazz, male and female artists with them so far and they just sound right with songs I am familiar with


----------



## Rodrigo (May 28, 2018)

?


----------



## DocHoliday (May 28, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> The sound is huge for such a small iem, kind of U-shaped, but without the high treble of ZS5 or ZS6. I have listened to pop, electronic and jazz, male and female artists with them so far and they just sound right with songs I am familiar with



Thanks for the feedback Panda.

Two questions if you don't mind:

1) How similar is the ZSA sound signature to the EMI CI-880 (C630)?

2) How similar is the ZSR sound signature to the ZhiYin Z5000?

When you get a chance.
Thanks


----------



## Bartig (May 28, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the feedback Panda.
> 
> Two questions if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


2) In sound signature, the ZSR and Z5000 are pretty much alike. The Z5000 however has way more extension on the bass end and in the highs. It also shows more detail. The ZSR has a slight mid bump the Z5000 lacks.

Love em both.  The Z5000 for music sessions and the ZSR as a daily commuter. It doesn’t catch wind noise when biking at all - a great feature!


----------



## rfsux (May 29, 2018)

Edit: deleted


----------



## HungryPanda

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the feedback Panda.
> 
> Two questions if you don't mind:
> 
> ...


1) ZSA has more controlled bass than E-MI C1880, ZSA treble not as sharp, ZSA has less soundstage, mids are similar. Drums sound better on ZSA

2)ZSR sound very like Z5000. The bass is not as clean on ZSR, mids are very alike, ZSR treble slightly more rolled off

Listened to all 4 with large starline tips using the same song below


----------



## DocHoliday

HungryPanda said:


> 1) ZSA has more controlled bass than E-MI C1880, ZSA treble not as sharp, ZSA has less soundstage, mids are similar. Drums sound better on ZSA
> 
> 2)ZSR sound very like Z5000. The bass is not as clean on ZSR, mids are very alike, ZSR treble slightly more rolled off
> 
> Listened to all 4 with large starline tips using the same song below




Thanks Panda! You just saved me from buying the EMI CI-880. I love it's sound signature but I hate that it can only be ordered with a microphone. Since it sounds like the ZSA is a slight variation with tighter bass and detachable cables I think I'll get two of the ZSA.

If the ZhiYin Z5000 sounds very similar to the ZSR (Nymphonomaniac's review seemed to describe the ZSR sound signature to a "T") then there really is no need for me to revisit the sound signature unless I want to own a great sounding stainless steel IEM.

Bottom line:

Of course curiosity is giving me an itchy "buy now" finger on the Z5000 and the truth is that I would have picked up a ZSA anyway but reckoning that the ZSA may improve upon the CI-880 sound signature I think I'll just get two ZSA's instead of one ZSA and one CI-880. 

Thanks again, Panda. Great feedback!

If any one else with a ZSA and a CI-880 wishes to weigh in on the comparison......please, feel free.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 28, 2018)

Bartig said:


> 2) In sound signature, the ZSR and Z5000 are pretty much alike. The Z5000 however has way more extension on the bass end and in the highs. It also shows more detail. The ZSR has a slight mid bump the Z5000 lacks.
> 
> Love em both.  The Z5000 for music sessions and the ZSR as a daily commuter. It doesn’t catch wind noise when biking at all - a great feature!



The one area that I consider to be lacking definition on the ZSR is the mid- to upper-bass. If the Z5000 has even less presence or definition in those FRs then I will surely pass on them, but I bet the diminished mid-bass and increased treble extension keeps them sounding clean and somewhat airy. 

KZ has released some true budget gems in the last three years (ED3 "Perfection", ED9, ED8, EDR1, EDSE, EDR2, ATR, ATE, HDS1, HDS3, ZS6, ZS5v1) and I think it's safe to say that they can add the ZSR to that growing list.

It'll be interesting to see where the newer models end up on the food chain.



 


 








 

All five = $120+/-


----------



## Bartig (May 28, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> The one area that I consider to be lacking definition on the ZSR is the mid- to upper-bass. If the Z5000 has even less presence or definition in those FRs then I will surely pass on them, but I bet the diminished mid-bass and increased treble extension keeps them sounding clean and somewhat airy.
> 
> KZ has released some true budget gems in the last three years (ED3 "Perfection", ED9, ED8, EDR1, EDSE, EDR2, ATR, ATE, HDS1, HDS3, ZS6, ZS5v1) and I think it's safe to say that they can add the ZSR to that growing list.
> 
> ...


It’s not a lack of definition on the Z5000, I’d say. It’s just that it doesn’t do that little KZ trick to spice up a certain frequency and make it punchy. I feel that an area of mids seem to be doing just that in the ZSR, and not in the Z5000, when comparing the two.

Also, I just ordered the ZSA.


----------



## sino8r

HungryPanda said:


> My left KZA earpiece is wired out of phase, I have had to change cable with straight plugs so as I can reverse left side



I'm curious... Won't it be easy to solder the connectors the correct way. I used to solder cellphones back in the day so I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult. Especially since the ZSA opens easily like the KS6. I've got a set of ZSAs ordered myself and use TRN bluetooth for my cables. A straight connector won't be an option for me. I hear the out of phase seems to happen to KZ models once in awhile but hasn't happened to me... yet.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> I'm curious... Won't it be easy to solder the connectors the correct way. I used to solder cellphones back in the day so I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult. Especially since the ZSA opens easily like the KS6. I've got a set of ZSAs ordered myself and use TRN bluetooth for my cables. A straight connector won't be an option for me. I hear the out of phase seems to happen to KZ models once in awhile but hasn't happened to me... yet.



It's even easier than that.

In @HungryPanda's case, the ZSA was internally wired properly, but 1 of the jacks was simply installed backwards. So all you have to do in that case is open the back, flip the offending jack around 180 degrees, and reinstall the back.

You only have to resolder when it's internally wired wrong. Someone recently had a ZS10 that had the BAs soldered out of phase. The only way to fix that particular issue is open them up and resolder them the right way.


----------



## Aparker2005

Alright so apparently my es4 got lost in transit so I'm getting a refund.

Currently owning the es3 and zs10, is there really any use in getting the es4 still? Or should I just wait for the 16 driver?

I use these 95% of the time for performing on stage if that matters.


----------



## DSebastiao

Is there a concensous on the ZS10? Also, is KZ still alone in this road of great sounding iem's that sound like, triple the price?


----------



## kirkftl

HungryPanda said:


> ZSA's now in phase with straight plug reversed on left earpiece. Now they sound mighty for their tiny size



If you don't mind me asking, could I get a link to that cable? Looks great.


----------



## SciOC

DSebastiao said:


> Is there a concensous on the ZS10? Also, is KZ still alone in this road of great sounding iem's that sound like, triple the price?


No real consensus on the zs10...   I think the only thing that can be said is that it's not a total giant killer like everyone was hoping for.  

$150-$200+ IEMs are definitely better.  

As for kz being alone, depends who you ask, but I'd say no, there are others but they're not as consistent.


----------



## tamburash (May 29, 2018)

Aparker2005 said:


> Alright so apparently my es4 got lost in transit so I'm getting a refund.
> 
> Currently owning the es3 and zs10, is there really any use in getting the es4 still? Or should I just wait for the 16 driver?
> 
> I use these 95% of the time for performing on stage if that matters.



Get TRN V20 for that purpose

The best IEM for live musicians under 20$.
I have tried and used various KZ for live playing, but they had their good sides and flaws at the same time (ZS3 bass, ZSR bass/drums, ZS6 for vocals/guitars/keys, ZS10 universal, jack of all trades, but master of none, ATE only if you like dark signatures and have a really good preamp for headphones bcs their sensitivity is low) TRN is the winner here, works for all roles, mids go a long way for live playing 

BTW. totally different story if you  just want to listen to music, then it depends on sound signatures you like, I like ZS10 so far the best as it is the most neutral in my book with little recessed mids (but not too much) and a good soundstage and separation. TRN are right in your face, very dense and precise, helps on a noisy stage where you often cant hear the nuances and are focusing on playing more then details that are lost in the translation.


----------



## rfsux

Are vocals in anyone’s burned-in ZS10 still recessed? In my one-month-old pair, they are more upfront than my new ones. However, I don’t know if they have become balanced, and I have not heard the ZSR in comparison.


----------



## kailashrs

Superluc said:


> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


What if both sides are out of phase? Would I hear a difference? Sorry, I'm an audio noob lol


----------



## Zlivan

No, but there's a possibilty that certain BA drivers are out of phase, hence some frequency ranges wouldn't sound right.
And that wouldn't be as easy to fix.

Anyway, mids on my ZS10s don't sound (much) recessed, just a bit harsh sometimes in the upper region.


----------



## Aparker2005

Well I went with the zsr for my 3rd iem. I may end up selling my es3 if I like them enough along with my zs10. Should be a great 2 sets until the 16s come out.


----------



## toddy0191

Aparker2005 said:


> Well I went with the zsr for my 3rd iem. I may end up selling my es3 if I like them enough along with my zs10. Should be a great 2 sets until the 16s come out.



The ES4 is very good and would probably work well on stage as they have quite thick bass and lower mids and plenty of sparkle up top.

In the honeymoon phase at the moment but they're my go to earphone at the moment.


----------



## Aparker2005

Have any of you had your lost in transit packages ever show up? Would have loved to try the es4 but seems the zsr is much better for drums and live playing.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 29, 2018)

I changed the tips on my KZ10 as I was having a problem getting deep enough insertion but I can't stand double or triple flange ... or foams.  I found this pair among our millions of tips.  The only one that has the sleeve part (the red part in the photo) protruding below the rest of the tip.  I hope this makes sense.  It helps the tip go in farther and it was comfortable and sounded really good.  Only problem is, I have no idea what these tips are so that I can get more.  They probably came with some other iem but I have too many.  Does anyone recognize this type or have a link to something similar?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Received my ES4 today and they're a huge improvement over the ZS10. When listening at desired volumes, I found the upper-mids of the ZS10 painful as if I was being stabbed in the eardrums. Vocals also sounded very unnatural and nasal.

The ES4 has none of that. I tried turning the volume up louder than usual on those same painful passages and had no problems. The bass has the same smoothness as how I remember the ZS10, possibly feeling a tad more emphasized, though I haven't really A/B'ed them yet. Vocals sound much more natural. Like the ZSR, my initial impression is that the ES4 has a very nice sound signature, but where the ZSR's mid-bass was often overbearing the ES4's is just right. So far this is my favorite KZ.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@mbwilson111 Looks like a set of Spinfits. Same that I use on my ZS10


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 29, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> @mbwilson111 Looks like a set of Spinfits. Same that I use on my ZS10



Interesting... we never have bought any Spinfits.  Nothing seems to spin on it... should I be able to spin the outer  part around?

If they are Spinfits I have checked and found out they are very expensive.  Does anyone know of a cheap source?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> Interesting... we never have bought any Spinfits.  Nothing seems to spin on it... should I be able to spin the outer  part around?
> 
> If they are Spinfits I have checked and found out they are very expensive.  Does anyone know of a cheap source?



Hmm...maybe on closer look they're not. I think Spinfit cores extend further. They also kinda look like Dunu tips but I see you don't have anything from that brand in your gear list. Welp....disregard everything I've said, haha.


----------



## psygeist

ZS10 is more clean and the soundstage is wider. Better imaging and separation. But not so comfortable for longer listening because of huge size.

ES4 is upgrade over ES3. Bass is more compared to ZS10. Mids are more smooth. These fit well compared to ZS10. I can see these as daily iems, close to MEMT x5. So much comfortable. Very inoffensive. 

I am using Rock Zircon tips for both of these.


----------



## pbui44 (May 29, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Interesting... we never have bought any Spinfits.  Nothing seems to spin on it... should I be able to spin the outer  part around?
> 
> If they are Spinfits I have checked and found out they are very expensive.  Does anyone know of a cheap source?



TobyDeals is cheaper than Amazon’s UK store with CP100 (KZ) in XS-S-M-L and CP800 (small-bore like Shure) in S-M-L:

https://www.tobydeals.co.uk/en_GB/buy/audio-accessories/spinfit.html


----------



## 424358

So far so good for ES4. They are my second favorite pair now. A very natural sound compared to the others.

Can’t dethrone the ZS6 yet though. But they are very good.


----------



## CoiL (May 30, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I changed the tips on my KZ10 as I was having a problem getting deep enough insertion but I can't stand double or triple flange ... or foams.  I found this pair among our millions of tips.  The only one that has the sleeve part (the red part in the photo) protruding below the rest of the tip.  I hope this makes sense.  It helps the tip go in farther and it was comfortable and sounded really good.  Only problem is, I have no idea what these tips are so that I can get more.  They probably came with some other iem but I have too many.  Does anyone recognize this type or have a link to something similar?



Try these tips with long barrel, wide bore and "cone" shape (I use them with ZS5v1 and ATE FF-mod to get great seal and deep fit):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1d1d4c4dSzvnVM


Spoiler: Pic











They only come with this cheap IEM. I bought myself some backup because being "so special".


----------



## Slater (May 30, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I changed the tips on my KZ10 as I was having a problem getting deep enough insertion but I can't stand double or triple flange ... or foams.  I found this pair among our millions of tips.  The only one that has the sleeve part (the red part in the photo) protruding below the rest of the tip.  I hope this makes sense.  It helps the tip go in farther and it was comfortable and sounded really good.  Only problem is, I have no idea what these tips are so that I can get more.  They probably came with some other iem but I have too many.  Does anyone recognize this type or have a link to something similar?



You can also use this trick with any of your favorite tips (such as Starlines).

You just remove the tip, slip on one of these silicone keyboard orings, and put the tip back on. The keyboard oring "spaces" the tip out a little bit, accomplishing the same thing as your longer red core. The advantage being that it can be used with any tip, no matter how long or short the core is.

They cost well under $1 for a bag of 100-150pcs, and they are available in many colors (clear, red, blue, purple, black, etc).

(click for larger view)


You can see the before and after view of how it spaces out the tip (ie the one on the left):


You can buy them here:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sop=15&_nkw=rubber+keyboard+oring&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-keyboard-o%252dring.html?SortType=price_asc&g=y&SearchText=keyboard+o-ring


----------



## basshead11

Zlivan said:


> No, but there's a possibilty that certain BA drivers are out of phase, hence some frequency ranges wouldn't sound right.
> And that wouldn't be as easy to fix.
> 
> Anyway, mids on my ZS10s don't sound (much) recessed, just a bit harsh sometimes in the upper region.



Yes, i have the same impression. harsh mids in the upper region. its posible this is because a mid BA driver out of phase?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

basshead11 said:


> Yes, i have the same impression. harsh mids in the upper region. its posible this is because a mid BA driver out of phase?


No, harsh upper mids are just a characteristic of the ZS10 because they have a wide peak of 10-15 dB in amplitude in the 2-4 kHz range.


----------



## chi-fi mel

CoiL said:


> Try these tips with long barrel, wide bore and "cone" shape (I use them with ZS5v1 and ATE FF-mod to get great seal and deep fit):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1d1d4c4dSzvnVM
> 
> 
> ...


I have had very poor results with those tips. I'm a serious tip tester and the only ones I can recommend is JVC spiral dots.


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> You can also use this trick with any of your favorite tips (such as Starlines).
> 
> You just remove the tip, slip on one of these silicone keyboard orings, and put the tip back on. The keyboard oring "spaces" the tip out a little bit, accomplishing the same thing as your longer red core. The advantage being that it can be used with any tip, no matter how long or short the core is.
> 
> ...


Any link for those rings, please?


----------



## CoiL

chi-fi mel said:


> I have had very poor results with those tips. I'm a serious tip tester and the only ones I can recommend is JVC spiral dots.


Depends totally on ear-canal-shape - it`s individual. All I can say is that I have small ears & ear-canals, use only small size tips, deep fit and generally prefer wide-bore tips.
Btw, I`m also quite "serious" tip-roller and have about 50 different S size tips in my collection. Those @ link I provided are HQ made, soft silicone outer "skirt", firm inner barrel and wide bore.
They are little longer than usual "ball" shaped generic tips and due to their "cone" shape, extend sealing/contact surface with ear-canal walls and go quite deep.
I also have JVC spiral dots and like them a lot but they affect high fr area sometimes too much (depending on how much they are "exposed" from inner dotted core over nozzle edge).
Dots usually give very good result but are very dependable on insertion depth - if You get it wrong, they wont seal enough and tend to get loose.
That`s why those "cone" tips have their profit over Dots - they extend further and provide more secure fit.


----------



## Bartig

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Received my ES4 today and they're a huge improvement over the ZS10. When listening at desired volumes, I found the upper-mids of the ZS10 painful as if I was being stabbed in the eardrums. Vocals also sounded very unnatural and nasal.
> 
> The ES4 has none of that. I tried turning the volume up louder than usual on those same painful passages and had no problems. The bass has the same smoothness as how I remember the ZS10, possibly feeling a tad more emphasized, though I haven't really A/B'ed them yet. Vocals sound much more natural. Like the ZSR, my initial impression is that the ES4 has a very nice sound signature, but where the ZSR's mid-bass was often overbearing the ES4's is just right. So far this is my favorite KZ.


This is exactly how I want the ES4 to sound. Way to pump up the hype!


----------



## Slater (May 30, 2018)

zozito said:


> Any link for those rings, please?



https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sop=15&_nkw=rubber+keyboard+oring&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-keyboard-o%252dring.html?SortType=price_asc&g=y&SearchText=keyboard+o-ring


----------



## KainHighwind

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Received my ES4 today and they're a huge improvement over the ZS10. When listening at desired volumes, I found the upper-mids of the ZS10 painful as if I was being stabbed in the eardrums. Vocals also sounded very unnatural and nasal.
> 
> The ES4 has none of that. I tried turning the volume up louder than usual on those same painful passages and had no problems. The bass has the same smoothness as how I remember the ZS10, possibly feeling a tad more emphasized, though I haven't really A/B'ed them yet. Vocals sound much more natural. Like the ZSR, my initial impression is that the ES4 has a very nice sound signature, but where the ZSR's mid-bass was often overbearing the ES4's is just right. So far this is my favorite KZ.



Yass, good to hear a positive ES4 experience, I ordered 1 pair some days ago. Do you use stock tips or which tips?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

KainHighwind said:


> Yass, good to hear a positive ES4 experience, I ordered 1 pair some days ago. Do you use stock tips or which tips?


For now I'm just using the large stock tips, as those are among my favorites. When I have time to do some proper listening tests, I'll also compare with Spiral Dots, Spinfits, and Whirlwinds. I'm not expecting much from the Spinfits, as I've never gotten those to work, but these seem like that rare earphone that could hold the Whirlwinds well, with their thick nozzle and large lip.


----------



## ka-tsu-don

It is normal that the BA of the ZS10 is hot glued?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

ka-tsu-don said:


> It is normal that the BA of the ZS10 is hot glued?


I guess its normal as long as there is none on the BA nozzle


----------



## KainHighwind

ChaoticKinesis said:


> For now I'm just using the large stock tips, as those are among my favorites. When I have time to do some proper listening tests, I'll also compare with Spiral Dots, Spinfits, and Whirlwinds. I'm not expecting much from the Spinfits, as I've never gotten those to work, but these seem like that rare earphone that could hold the Whirlwinds well, with their thick nozzle and large lip.



You don't use foam tips? Can you recommend some cheap silicon tips? Thanks.


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sop=15&_nkw=rubber+keyboard+oring&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1
> https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-keyboard-o%252dring.html?SortType=price_asc&g=y&SearchText=keyboard+o-ring


Thanks.


Slater said:


> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sop=15&_nkw=rubber+keyboard+oring&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1
> https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-keyboard-o%252dring.html?SortType=price_asc&g=y&SearchText=keyboard+o-ring


Thank you mate. 2nd link shows finger rings though.


----------



## tamburash

Got my ZSA yesterday. So far I like them quite a bit. They have a similar "KZ sound" that we hear in all of their latest offerings - they are more like a toned down ZS6 (similar punchy bass, good mids, but with less high peaks). So in that way I can actually listen to them loud and without EQ, mods or other means of managing the highs (like ZS6).
They are very small, have a great mojo look (red and black is cool as hell) and putting them on is a breeze, Enjoying them so far, even thinking of using them for my daily IEM (ZS10 was the latest in that role, but quite bulky to wear in public and a little too flat in highs for my taste). PS. they sound better with the TRN cable then with all KZ cables (old rubber ones, silver ones and this new copper one). Maybe subjective, but i tried chaging for like half and hour and it really popped up as a little clearer.

PS. waiting for ZS4 now, my favourite fit so far is ZS3, so hoping for a same housing with a better sound (ZSR, ZSA, ZS5,6,10 soundalikes)


----------



## Slater (May 30, 2018)

zozito said:


> ...2nd link shows finger rings though.



That’s an issue with Aliexpress’s search algorithm. Basically, their search engine sucks. So does Amazon’s.

Ebay’s is the bees knees though. It can be zeroed in with laser precision using a ton of parameters (like Google).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

basshead11 said:


> Yes, i have the same impression. harsh mids in the upper region. its posible this is because a mid BA driver out of phase?


ZS10 is just a harsh sounding phone. Got to eq if you wanna smooth em out. Eq works pretty well though. With the right tips(took awhile), and eq, the phones can actually sound really good.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 30, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I changed the tips on my KZ10 as I was having a problem getting deep enough insertion but I can't stand double or triple flange ... or foams.  I found this pair among our millions of tips.  The only one that has the sleeve part (the red part in the photo) protruding below the rest of the tip.  I hope this makes sense.  It helps the tip go in farther and it was comfortable and sounded really good.  Only problem is, I have no idea what these tips are so that I can get more.  They probably came with some other iem but I have too many.  Does anyone recognize this type or have a link to something similar?


Funny ironic you posted this. I had been using some really thin soft rubbery wide bore tips that I believe came from ATH cks1000 phones I used to have. The tips pushed all the way back put the screens almost flush with the end of the tip. It allowed deep insertion, but killed a bit of the low end. Anyway, both screens ended up coming unglued, so after work had to glue them back on. Grabbed my big box of tips and went to these little black tips with red cores. After tip rolling bunch these are the best for these. They are hard rubber which sucks but the low end punch is really good and some of the harshness of the upper mids has been squashed, which is win win for me. Was about to ask the exact same thing you asked about where did these tips come from, when I saw your post. The ones I have are black with red core, but I do have the grey with red cores too. I want to say that they came with HAVI B3 Pro1, but I'm not sure. I know that my Havi's came with a boatload of tips tho.

Can anybody confirm this?


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> The ones I have are black with red core, but I do have the grey with red cores too.



I have a lot of tips with the red core but only this one where the core protrudes below the bottom of the bowl shaped part..as shown in the photo .  Is yours like that?  That is what I hope to find more of.

Meanwhile ED16 is in the house and in my ears


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

KainHighwind said:


> You don't use foam tips? Can you recommend some cheap silicon tips? Thanks.


I never liked the weak seal of foam and the majority of silicone tips don't work for me because most of the time their large is too small for my ears. Honestly, my favorite cheap silicone tips are the stock KZ Starlines. If you happen to not like those, I'm sure you can find plenty of recommendations in this thread/site.


----------



## TheVortex

mbwilson111 said:


> I have a lot of tips with the red core but only this one where the core protrudes below the bottom of the bowl shaped part..as shown in the photo .  Is yours like that?  That is what I hope to find more of.
> 
> Meanwhile ED16 is in the house and in my ears




What are your impressions of the ED16?


----------



## SciOC

You guys should start a  band called "the serious tip rollers".  I assume most of us here own a ton of different tips, and while there are some that are clearly junk, let's not pretend that it doesn't all come down to personal preference (still don't understand all the love for spinfits).  

Kz starline tips are great IMO, but I generally prefer foam tips for long term wear.   The large starlines are great when I need to take IEMs in and out a lot.


----------



## KipNix

DSebastiao said:


> Also, is KZ still alone in this road of great sounding iem's that sound like, triple the price?


We happen to think you get the most bang for the buck with KZ. And they're always coming out with new models using new designs, drivers, cables, etc. 
For other brands, check out 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

SciOC said:


> You guys should start a  band called "the serious tip rollers".  I assume most of us here own a ton of different tips, and while there are some that are clearly junk, let's not pretend that it doesn't all come down to personal preference (*still don't understand all the love for spinfits*).


This. I realize it's personal but they are without a doubt the most uncomfortable tips I've ever tried and incredibly difficult to get a good seal with. For me they fail in the very thing they were seemingly meant to do of accommodating the different insertion angles of various earphones because if my insertion angle/depth is even slightly off they just don't seal at all. If most silicone tips take 1-2 seconds and a single try to insert properly, those usually take me 10 or more tries and on at least half the earphones don't work at all.



SciOC said:


> Kz starline tips are great IMO, but I generally prefer foam tips for long term wear.   The large starlines are great when I need to take IEMs in and out a lot.


Starlines all the way. I think they are my #1 tip of choice on more earphones than any other tip. They also work better for me than every expensive tip I've tried except Spiral Dots, which I consider to be their equal but different.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Spitfits for me are very situational. They either work amazingly, or not at all. I find they're generally best with shallow fit earphones and those with a tricky fit (for me that is), like the ADV S2000, ZS10, FLC8s, EarNiNE EN1J and EN2J.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 30, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Meanwhile ED16 is in the house and in my ears





TheVortex said:


> What are your impressions of the ED16?



The real question is..........drumroll please 




 

......how do they differ from the ZSR (same exact drivers)?


----------



## HungryPanda

Grrr they're hot property..... stolen from my very hands earlier


----------



## nkramer

anybody know a good place to get the 2 pin sockets (female, in iem)? about the only place i've been able to find is aliexpress.


----------



## Dickymint

Spinfits, I have several packs of them they came with some IEM's I bought, no matter what I try, I cannot get them to work, I just do not get on with them! In fact, there are very few silicone seals that I do get on with, they just don't seal in my ears. But saying that, I got a set of fluffy silicones free with a cable once and they are brilliant, have not been able to find them since though! Foamie's all the way!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

SciOC said:


> You guys should start a  band called "the serious tip rollers".  I assume most of us here own a ton of different tips, and while there are some that are clearly junk, let's not pretend that it doesn't all come down to personal preference (still don't understand all the love for spinfits).
> 
> Kz starline tips are great IMO, but I generally prefer foam tips for long term wear.   The large starlines are great when I need to take IEMs in and out a lot.



Yup. Tip rolling is completly personal preference. Everybody has differant physical makeup. Our ears are all different as well as our ear canals. Finding the right tip can make a huge differance. 

I just personally hate taking the time switching and trying differant tips. I just wanna plug and play.


----------



## SciOC

I pretty much go starlines, new bee foamies then if I'm not satisfied with either I'll start truly rolling.  

I agree it's generally a pain and I tend to have best results with with the new bees and starlines.  The only pair I can think where I don't use those are my ety er4p which I used the triple flange, and then the audeeze isine20's which I use the included medium groovy tips. Both those are odd ducks though.

In general I think I must have large, shallow ear canals.  

IMO spinfits seem to be made for those with deep ear canals.....   For me the Starlines go just as deep.  Never tried spiral dots, but come on, they're not that different.

Overall, tip rolling for me is a non-issue, if I get a good seal, any changes in sound signature are tiny.


----------



## willjie90 (May 30, 2018)

Guys, I am giving away this free code. For whoever in need of new DAP or DAC. Not sure where to post so I will just post this here. You have around 30 hours left.


----------



## HerrXRDS

ChaoticKinesis said:


> This. I realize it's personal but they are without a doubt the most uncomfortable tips I've ever tried and incredibly difficult to get a good seal with. For me they fail in the very thing they were seemingly meant to do of accommodating the different insertion angles of various earphones because if my insertion angle/depth is even slightly off they just don't seal at all. If most silicone tips take 1-2 seconds and a single try to insert properly, those usually take me 10 or more tries and on at least half the earphones don't work at all.
> 
> 
> Starlines all the way. I think they are my #1 tip of choice on more earphones than any other tip. They also work better for me than every expensive tip I've tried except Spiral Dots, which I consider to be their equal but different.



For me Spinfits work best. I'm using 145 and 155 with my KZ headphones, fit, comfort and sound is better than foams. Also on the IT01 most tips would change the sound when opening my mouth, Spinfits work great due to the rotating head. Different tips for different ears.


----------



## HungryPanda

I got the same offer today


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (May 30, 2018)

SciOC said:


> Never tried spiral dots, but come on, they're not that different.


I thought this way for a long time because I can definitely agree that at ~$15 for 3 pairs you may not like they're overpriced. But the truth is I haven't tried another tip that's quite like them. I have very wide ear canals and most large tips don't seal for me. The Spiral Dot large is probably the widest I've tried. Also, similar to the the Starlines, they are at their widest in the middle and not the bottom, like most eartips, providing a good seal without requiring a very deep insertion. They're also made of a tougher silicone, again like the Starlines, so they don't deform when inserted the way some of those paper-thin silicones do (I'm looking at you Xiaomi). Honestly, I'd happily use Starlines on all my earphones but not all of them like such a long tip. That's where the Spiral Dots come in.

I've also seen several measurements with Spiral Dots where they actually smooth out frequency responses in ways that other tips do not. I'm not sure if I buy into the marketing of their special grooves and texture having any meaningful effect, but my ears tend to agree. They do not emphasize mids in the same way as most other wide bore tips, such as Whirlwinds.


----------



## kailashrs

Zlivan said:


> No, but there's a possibilty that certain BA drivers are out of phase, hence some frequency ranges wouldn't sound right.
> And that wouldn't be as easy to fix.
> 
> Anyway, mids on my ZS10s don't sound (much) recessed, just a bit harsh sometimes in the upper region.



After some extensive listening, I've decided nothing sounds amiss enough for me to suspect a miswired driver lol... I guess I was just being overly paranoid... Only quirks I have with this thing are the recessed vocals and the peak in the vocals that tends to get harsh... Still, I wish I'd gone for the TinAudio T2 which would've saved me all this paranoia lol..


----------



## kailashrs

So anyway, is there a phase test for miswired individual drivers?


----------



## Makahl

kailashrs said:


> So anyway, is there a phase test for miswired individual drivers?



Multi drivers are harder to detect since you'll still hear the drivers which are properly wired. Individual tests you would need to take them apart which isn't an easy task or worth the risk. If they sound right using this test: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php I'd not even bother, otherwise, the paranoia will make you don't appreciate it.


----------



## kailashrs

Makahl said:


> Multi drivers are harder to detect since you'll still hear the drivers which are properly wired. Individual tests you would need to take them apart which isn't an easy task or worth the risk. If they sound right using this test: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php I'd not even bother, otherwise, the paranoia will make you don't appreciate it.



Yeah, my zs10 passed those tests but I'm afraid the paranoia and my ocd are getting the better of me xD, especially considering how prevalent these quality control issues are... But they sound perfectly fine... I'm just scared I'll miss out on better sound cause of miswired drivers...


----------



## Zlivan

I think they would most likely sound wrong, in lack of better word, if they were misswired somehow. Maybe you wouldn't know how describe it, but the sound would be just wrong to the point of not wanting to listen to them. That's how you'll usually know you've got out of phase set.

To be a bit more precise, it's like a slight echo in the sound and artificial separation of channels.


----------



## Slater

kailashrs said:


> Yeah, my zs10 passed those tests but I'm afraid the paranoia and my ocd are getting the better of me xD, especially considering how prevalent these quality control issues are... But they sound perfectly fine... I'm just scared I'll miss out on better sound cause of miswired drivers...



Maybe just stick with dynamics in the future? It's 1 single driver; it either works or it doesn't. And it's easy to detect if it's out of phase.

And there are numerous ones that sound awesome. In fact, I much prefer the sound of a well tuned dynamic than a multi-driver hybrid with iffy tuning.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Just going to hype the ES4's some more because why not. 

Ever since getting my TinAudio T2, I've not left home once with the ZSR or ZS10 because they were both an obvious step down in quality. Today I decided to take the ES4 with me instead and see how it goes. I've been listening to them all day at work so far and have no complaints. I'd want to do an A/B test before attempting any comparison but I will say I could definitely live with these.


----------



## nkramer

QUIZ: Do you have the ears of an audio producer?
http://training.npr.org/audio/quiz-do-you-have-the-ears-of-an-audio-producer/

(question 4 is an example of phase issues)


----------



## kailashrs

Slater said:


> Maybe just stick with dynamics in the future? It's 1 single driver; it either works or it doesn't. And it's easy to detect if it's out of phase.
> 
> And there are numerous ones that sound awesome. In fact, I much prefer the sound of a well tuned dynamic than a multi-driver hybrid with iffy tuning.



Yeah I'll probably get something like the iBasso IT01 next... Though I don't see that happening for at least 2 more years given how good this thing sounds xD


----------



## kailashrs (May 30, 2018)

Zlivan said:


> I think they would most likely sound wrong, in lack of better word, if they were misswired somehow. Maybe you wouldn't know how describe it, but the sound would be just wrong to the point of not wanting to listen to them. That's how you'll usually know you've got out of phase set.
> 
> To be a bit more precise, it's like a slight echo in the sound and artificial separation of channels.



So far nothing sounds amiss, so I guess I was just being needlessly paranoid lol... So far only @Wiljen has had miswired drivers those were affecting his vocals, my vocals sound fine, so I just need to dump that paranoia and enjoy these beauties xD


----------



## toddy0191 (May 30, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Just going to hype the ES4's some more because why not.
> 
> Ever since getting my TinAudio T2, I've not left home once with the ZSR or ZS10 because they were both an obvious step down in quality. Today I decided to take the ES4 with me instead and see how it goes. I've been listening to them all day at work so far and have no complaints. I'd want to do an A/B test before attempting any comparison but I will say I could definitely live with these.



Just been A/B ing the ES4 with the ZS10 and prefer the ES4. Much warmer in the lower mids and the mids are much more forward than the ZS10. Briefly listened to ny 24 bit FLAC of Dreams Fleetwood Mac and the ES4s sound more natural.

Think KZ have knocked it out of the park with these. Insane value for their low cost.

Think the low end from their new graphene driver is much improved.  Lovely textured and we'll controlled bass, with great mid bass punch and sub bass that goes very deep.


----------



## stryed (May 30, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Just been A/B ing the ES4 with the ZS10 and prefer the ES4. Much warmer in the lower mids and the mids are much more forward than the ZS10. Briefly listened to ny 24 bit FLAC of Dreams Fleetwood Mac and the ES4s sound more natural.
> 
> Think KZ have knocked it out of the park with these. Insane value for their low cost.
> 
> Think the low end from their new graphene driver is much improved.  Lovely textured and we'll controlled bass, with great mid bass punch and sub bass that goes very deep.



I think I will take the back seat, while I contemplate getting something like my KZ5v2. The KZR and now the ES4 & KZA seems to be getting good reviews but it can only get better 
The pace is so insane that by the time your aliexpress order arrives a new release will have popped up.


----------



## 424358

toddy0191 said:


> Just been A/B ing the ES4 with the ZS10 and prefer the ES4. Much warmer in the lower mids and the mids are much more forward than the ZS10. Briefly listened to ny 24 bit FLAC of Dreams Fleetwood Mac and the ES4s sound more natural.
> 
> Think KZ have knocked it out of the park with these. Insane value for their low cost.
> 
> Think the low end from their new graphene driver is much improved.  Lovely textured and we'll controlled bass, with great mid bass punch and sub bass that goes very deep.



Agreed. The ES4 are darn good. Probably one of the best KZ has made along with zs6.

The vocals and mids are so natural.


----------



## acia

stryed said:


> I think I will take the back seat, while I contemplate getting something like my KZ5v2. The KZR and now the ES4 & KZA seems to be getting good reviews but it can only get better
> The pace is so insane that by the time your aliexpress order arrives a new release will have popped up.


yep.  i am fed up with kz, changed to isine for iem!  and crushed zs10 EASY!  have bloody 2 pairs of the useless zs10.


----------



## pbui44

acia said:


> yep.  i am fed up with kz, changed to isine for iem!  and crushed zs10 EASY!  have bloody 2 pairs of the useless zs10.



Let me PayPal you $7 for packing and shipping, so you can get rid of those useless ZS10s out of your sight.


----------



## acia

pbui44 said:


> Let me PayPal you $7 for packing and shipping, so you can get rid of those useless ZS10s out of your sight.



oh yeah.  lol.


----------



## Zerohour88

pbui44 said:


> Let me PayPal you $7 for packing and shipping, so you can get rid of those useless ZS10s out of your sight.



He said 2 pairs, I can take 1 too, no brainer for 7 bux.


----------



## ThirteenGreen

Is there a seller nowadays that sells confirmed KS ZS5 *version 1*?


----------



## Turbo AL

Dickymint said:


> Spinfits, I have several packs of them they came with some IEM's I bought, no matter what I try, I cannot get them to work, I just do not get on with them! In fact, there are very few silicone seals that I do get on with, they just don't seal in my ears. But saying that, I got a set of fluffy silicones free with a cable once and they are brilliant, have not been able to find them since though! Foamie's all the way!



Are these what you are looking for?

1 Pair(2pcs) NICEHCK High Quality In Ear Plush Tips Earbuds Eartips/Ear Sleeve/Ear Tip/Earbuds For In Ear Earphone Earbud

http://s.aliexpress.com/ZrABJbYJ?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


----------



## Dickymint

Turbo AL said:


> Are these what you are looking for?
> 
> 1 Pair(2pcs) NICEHCK High Quality In Ear Plush Tips Earbuds Eartips/Ear Sleeve/Ear Tip/Earbuds For In Ear Earphone Earbud
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZrABJbYJ?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard


Magic our Morris! That looks very much like them, thank you.


----------



## CoiL

SciOC said:


> You guys should start a  band called "the serious tip rollers".  I assume most of us here own a ton of different tips, and while there are some that are clearly junk, let's not pretend that it doesn't all come down to personal preference (still don't understand all the love for spinfits).
> Kz starline tips are great IMO, but I generally prefer foam tips for long term wear.   The large starlines are great when I need to take IEMs in and out a lot.


There`s a thread for "serious tip-rollers": https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-tip-rolling-iem-modification-thread.726229/page-5



ThirteenGreen said:


> Is there a seller nowadays that sells confirmed KS ZS5 *version 1*?


Unfortunately seems that no. Want to get another myself. Zelda is selling at gear thread but he is located in US, otherwise I would buy from him.


----------



## Slater (May 31, 2018)

ThirteenGreen said:


> Is there a seller nowadays that sells confirmed KS ZS5 *version 1*?



Haha, that’s like the lost city of Atlantis my friend.

You’re best bet is to buy a pair off of a HF member that’s willing to part with it.


----------



## acia

Slater said:


> Haha, that’s like the lost city of Atlantis my friend.
> 
> You’re best bet is to buy a pair off of a HF member that’s willing to part with it.



what's so good about v1?  dumped almost a dozen of them.


----------



## fredhubbard2

acia said:


> what's so good about v1?  dumped almost a dozen of them.



shame! they sound fricking great. well, to these ears.... massive soundstage, loads of detail, my fave IEMs atm.


----------



## TJK81 (May 31, 2018)

I¨m really glad to see a positive reviews for the ES4's. I purchased one week ago. Looking forward to them. Two days later i jumped to the ZSA hype train. Just because my ZS6's started to produce some kind of cracling sound when i touch left earpiece. Annoying "a bit".


----------



## Bartig (May 31, 2018)

Just received the ES4 and... they’re great, straight out of the box!

It has some characteristics of the ZS10 but it’s tuned way better. No overdrawn upper mids, but it has the warm sound the ZS10 has. The bass is lovely fat AND tight. The airyness some KZ’s just nail is once again present in this one. I popped them into my ears and enjoyed them straight away.

Compared to the ZSR, the ZSR’s bass is a little more muddy, and it also sounds a bit smoother. That’s not a con. It’s something you may prefer or not. The ES4 doesn’t have as much sibilance.

Another success for KZ, so soon after the ZSR. Insane!


----------



## Kindergweno

Now I wish I had chosen the green ones...


----------



## kw8910 (May 31, 2018)

Noticed that the nozzle mesh that came with ZSA is a bit tight so replaced with another (5mm) and clarity is slightly improved.. ymmv



Stock mesh on right


----------



## Strat Rider

Now more than ever I am looking forward to listening to the ES4.

I have skipped the other "new" products since I have my ZSR, and ZS6, (with one BA disabled)

Actually forgot I had ordered them, but last night I had a delivery of EDR2's. Unfortunately I had ordered EDR1's. So Short story longer, I hopped on AE to open a ticket to the seller, for refund or exchange. (Truth is I wont pay to ship them back $12.00 for two pairs of iem) So when I was looking on my account page, I found out I should have ES4 on Monday.

Lesson learned...ChiFi purchases, while sipping a well aged bourbon, can be fun. Especially if one doesn't remember.


----------



## hydroid

Bartig said:


> Just received the ES4 and... they’re great, straight out of the box!
> 
> It has some characteristics of the ZS10 but it’s tuned way better. No overdrawn upper mids, but it has the warm sound the ZS10 has. The bass is lovely fat AND tight. The airyness some KZ’s just nail is once again present in this one. I popped them into my ears and enjoyed them straight away.
> 
> ...



A thing of beauty indeed. Ordered the same color cyan and your photo and initial impressions made me more excited to get my hands on this ES4.


----------



## Bartig

Hey look, the ES4 is a giant killer! Well, in a way.


----------



## Aparker2005

I wish my es4 hadn't gotten lost  Maybe they'll randomly show up one day.

Based on another user's recommendation  I went with the green zsr and boy am I glad I did. I think they beat my zs10. Maybe not as much separation  but the bass is amazing. And the fit feels completely custom. Will be selling my es3 and possibly even the zs10 now. Highly impressed


----------



## Strat Rider (May 31, 2018)

I need the expertise of a resident KZ-niac.

I received a response from the seller of the EDR1 that I tried to order, and was shipped a couple EDR2 packages.
Sellers response was that the EDR1 has a black housing, and the EDR2 is silver, the only difference is the color, and they are one and the same

Anybody willing to shed some light on this and educate me?

TIA


----------



## Slater

acia said:


> what's so good about v1?  dumped almost a dozen of them.



You would be a rich man right now if you had a dozen sets to sell.

With a proper impedance-matched source/amp, they sound great IMO.


----------



## Slater (May 31, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> I need the expertise of a resident KZ-niac.
> 
> I received a response from the seller of the EDR1 that I tried to order, and was shipped a couple EDR2 packages.
> Sellers response was that the EDR1 has a black housing, and the EDR2 is silver, the only difference is the color, and they are one and the same
> ...



Nope, different shell material (zinc alloy vs aluminum), and different drivers as well. The vent holes are also different between the 2 models.

The sound is 'kind of' similar between the 2, but I prefer the EDR1 much more. To me it sounds cleaner, less grainy vs the EDR2, has deeper extension on both ends, and is a little more v shaped.

I have about 8-9 EDR1s and only 2 EDR2s.

The EDR2 isn’t poor by any means, but when I let people hear the EDR1, the typical reaction is “_wow_” or “_holy s*it, how much did you say this cost again?_”. I’ve never heard that reaction from anyone on the EDR2.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I just got my edr2 and after I got it, opened it up and listened to it thru about 4-5 tracks, I rolled it up, and gently placed it in the box it came in and banished it to the shelf, probably to be never seen again. 

To me it seemed the bass was really loose and flubby. I dunno it was close to edr1 sound, but wasn't as good. 

Waiting on the golds to see how those are...


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I just got my edr2 and after I got it, opened it up and listened to it thru about 4-5 tracks, I rolled it up, and gently placed it in the box it came in and banished it to the shelf, probably to be never seen again.
> 
> To me it seemed the bass was really loose and flubby. I dunno it was close to edr1 sound, but wasn't as good.
> 
> Waiting on the golds to see how those are...



Haha, that’s exactly what happened to my EDR2s LOL

What are the “golds” you’re referring to? Do you mean the EDSE?


----------



## CYoung234

Slater said:


> You would be a rich man right now if you had a dozen sets to sell.
> 
> With a proper impedance-matched source/amp, they sound great IMO.



I have two sets of them, but prefer either the ZS6 or ZS10. I am going to listen to the pair I have out of the box some more, but unless they grow on me exponentially, I will be in the U.S. in September, and will probably bring both sets with me to sell. One set is blue and the other is grey, both bought from gearbest. So...


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> I have two sets of them, but prefer either the ZS6 or ZS10. I am going to listen to the pair I have out of the box some more, but unless they grow on me exponentially, I will be in the U.S. in September, and will probably bring both sets with me to sell. One set is blue and the other is grey, both bought from gearbest. So...



I'm willing to bet you will sell them both within 1 day of putting them up for sale.


----------



## Strat Rider

Thank you @Slater I had read before about a difference between the two.
i already have 2 pair of the EDR2, wanted to try the EDR1, just a $5.00 gamble. 

I'll get them before they disappear forever, just not from that particular shop.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Haha, that’s exactly what happened to my EDR2s LOL
> 
> What are the “golds” you’re referring to? Do you mean the EDSE?


Yea the SE versions. Still waiting for em.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Strat Rider said:


> Thank you @Slater I had read before about a difference between the two.
> i already have 2 pair of the EDR2, wanted to try the EDR1, just a $5.00 gamble.
> 
> I'll get them before they disappear forever, just not from that particular shop.


Amazon has the edr1 for $6.50 prime shipped. Same seller has the edr2 for $6.80 prime shipped also. If in the us, have prime, and need them fast. If not, Sorry.


----------



## audionab

do anyone here has ed16 yet?


----------



## Turbo AL

Can one of you KZ experts explain what is ment at the top of this ad for the EDR1 to me?  I understand the "This time,"
but I am not adept enough at this particular brand to discern what come after "This time,"  AL


----------



## Strat Rider

OMG..! @BadReligionPunk, thanks for that heads up.
When l'm looking for KZ, I shop ebay, GB, AE, but never think about Amazon. 
Sometimes I think my Wife has Amazon Prime on speed dial.


----------



## Storyteller

Turbo AL said:


> Can one of you KZ experts explain what is ment at the top of this ad for the EDR1 to me? I understand the "This time,"
> but I am not adept enough at this particular brand to discern what come after "This time," AL



I'm not a KZ expert, but I have some imagination. My translation to modern english would be:

"This time, finally, this ****ing time, we got it right. The things we did wrong in past models are now fixed, so there. As one of the few professional audio brands around, and being the competition so tough, this is it. Out patent is the crap."


----------



## Slater (May 31, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea the SE versions. Still waiting for em.



Got it.

I'll be curious what your reaction of the EDSE is. Mine was a similar reaction to the EDR2 - not great, but not bad.

I would rate them EDR1 > EDSE > EDR2.

Make sure you mark them so you don't mix them up! The EDSE and EDR2 are almost indistinguishable. The only outward physical difference are the vent holes.


----------



## Vestat

Strat Rider said:


> OMG..! @BadReligionPunk, thanks for that heads up.
> When l'm looking for KZ, I shop ebay, GB, AE, but never think about Amazon.
> Sometimes I think my Wife has Amazon Prime on speed dial.



I got my ZS6 from amazon.. They cost me 45 $ but make sense to me.
AE is way cheaper.. But I like Amazon when possible mostly because of the after sale customer satisfaction.


----------



## 424358

Bartig said:


> Just received the ES4 and... they’re great, straight out of the box!



Damn, I wish I got cyan now... I got the conservative color black. 

But your impressions are aligned with mine. Love these things.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have to add of all the latest KZ earphones the ES4 is probably my favorite


----------



## toddy0191

HungryPanda said:


> I have to add of all the latest KZ earphones the ES4 is probably my favorite


 
Completely agree!


----------



## audionab

HungryPanda said:


> I have to add of all the latest KZ earphones the ES4 is probably my favorite


any first impressions on the new kz ed16 you received from anywhere?


----------



## Bartig (Jun 1, 2018)

misterchao said:


> Damn, I wish I got cyan now... I got the conservative color black.
> 
> But your impressions are aligned with mine. Love these things.


Haha, I honestly think the cyan is a mismatch with the standard cable. 




Don’t care though. They sound great. Even better than the ZSR!


----------



## HungryPanda

audionab said:


> any first impressions on the new kz ed16 you received from anywhere?


Unfortunately my wife grabbed them from the pile I received that day leaving me with 3 earbuds but I know she likes them


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Nope, different shell material (zinc alloy vs aluminum), and different drivers as well. The vent holes are also different between the 2 models.
> 
> The sound is 'kind of' similar between the 2, but I prefer the EDR1 much more. To me it sounds cleaner, less grainy vs the EDR2, has deeper extension on both ends, and is a little more v shaped.
> 
> ...


i completely agree with slater on the edr1--you cannot overstate how impressive it is. the zsr/zs5 have bigger, more detailed presentations, but to my current thinking  the edr1 has the most natural-sounding tonality of any of the kzs. the only limitation i've heard is that its lowend tends to wobble on lower-powered sources, tho it tightens considerably when amped.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 1, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Unfortunately my wife grabbed them from the pile I received that day leaving me with 3 earbuds but I know she likes them



She does...

Getting ready to take some photos... they are smaller than I expected them to be.  I will show a comparison of the ED16 to the ZSR and ZS10 for size.

LOL you made it sound like all you have left to your name is 3 earbuds!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

So ES4 peeps who also have or have tried ZS10. The vibes I'm getting is that there is no reason at all to spend the extra cash on ZS10, when ES4 is better and cheaper. Is that right? Is there anything that ZS10 does better? 

Could save people a lot of money here.


----------



## Bartig (Jun 1, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> So ES4 peeps who also have or have tried ZS10. The vibes I'm getting is that there is no reason at all to spend the extra cash on ZS10, when ES4 is better and cheaper. Is that right? Is there anything that ZS10 does better?
> 
> Could save people a lot of money here.


I think, although this might be strange sounding, that the ZS10 offers soundstage on more levels. On the ES4 it's mainly the drums that give an airy feeling, on the ZS10 it's more layers and frequencies of the music. However: I'm all on camp ES4. The sound is more balanced, better tuned and most importantly: it's non-offensive on rock and classical music.

The ZS10 sometimes punishes your hearing with those upper mid-punches on guitars and violins. There's none of that on the ES4.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 1, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Getting ready to take some photos... they are smaller than I expected them to be. I will show a comparison of the ED16 to the ZSR and ZS10 for size.



I wish the photos were better but here they are.  Not ready to try a sound comparison.  My ears get a little irritated when I take iems in and out too much in one day.  I did that a couple of days ago trying to find the right tips on a few things.  Buds for me today I think.  I do really like the ED16.  They are quite flat in the ear so I could sleep with them.  Especially since they have a tough sturdy cable.

Green ZSR on the left,  black (transparent) ED16 in the middle,  red ZS10 on the right.  All are comfortable for me but the ED16 is the most comfortable of the three.  I don't know which one sounds best.  I like them all.  

Only open the spoiler if you want to see several large photos.



Spoiler


----------



## Saoshyant

I really wish the pacing of releases was a little more spread out as after ZSR I’ve been hesitant to buy anything due to so many options so quickly.  For the smaller build ZSA is intriguing, and ED4 certainly has some love.  Barely remember reading about the ED15, and hoping more impressions pop up soon.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Old news, but I got in a new ED9 a couple days ago. I've had one of the original versions with the bio-diaphragm for years and took a brief listen to the current titanium driver model early last year before it was gifted to my cousin. Now that I've got my own and have had the opportunity to sit and compare to the original, damn is it good. ZS10 is better on a technical level, but with the balanced filters installed the ED9 is just so pleasant to listen too. Tight, deep bass, slightly recessed tonally correct mids with great timbre, and crisp, accurate treble that doesn't peak uncomfortably. The current driver is so much tighter and more controlled than the old one as well. None of the splashiness that turned me away. Glad I got them with a mic as these are going to be seeing a lot of use. What a bargain for 10 CAD.

​


----------



## GrassFed

loomisjohnson said:


> i completely agree with slater on the edr1--you cannot overstate how impressive it is. the zsr/zs5 have bigger, more detailed presentations, but to my current thinking  the edr1 has the most natural-sounding tonality of any of the kzs. the only limitation i've heard is that its lowend tends to wobble on lower-powered sources, tho it tightens considerably when amped.


I have to disagree just a little bit here. You can overstate how impressive it is haha Got mine a couple days ago. They sound great, very similar to Final E2000. Vocals are sweet. But somehow Beethoven' piano sonatas sound crowded and thick. Overall they're excellent value, unbeatable indeed for under $10. But didn't knock my socks off.


----------



## ShakyJake

mbwilson111 said:


> I wish the photos were better but here they are.  Not ready to try a sound comparison.  My ears get a little irritated when I take iems in and out too much in one day.  I did that a couple of days ago trying to find the right tips on a few things.  Buds for me today I think.  I do really like the ED16.  They are quite flat in the ear so I could sleep with them.  Especially since they have a tough sturdy cable.
> 
> Green ZSR on the left,  black (transparent) ED16 in the middle,  red ZS10 on the right.  All are comfortable for me but the ED16 is the most comfortable of the three.  I don't know which one sounds best.  I like them all.
> 
> ...



It is interesting that the writing on the ED16 says "ZS7"  I know that some promo pictures showed that, but I guess KZ decided that it needed "rebranding".


----------



## toddy0191 (Jun 1, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> So ES4 peeps who also have or have tried ZS10. The vibes I'm getting is that there is no reason at all to spend the extra cash on ZS10, when ES4 is better and cheaper. Is that right? Is there anything that ZS10 does better?
> 
> Could save people a lot of money here.



The ZS10 is technically better with excellent layering, separation and soundstage. The ES4 is more balanced though with more forward mids and a warmer mid bass / lower mids and slightly more aggressive treble  I like both.


----------



## kennyhack (Jun 1, 2018)

audionab said:


> do anyone here has ed16 yet?


I received ED16 yesterday and left them burning in with pink noise for a couple of hours. I'll compare them to KZ ZSR as they're the only IEM's I've got from KZ. First impression is that ED16 is smaller and less bulky than ZSR (flatter in shape and less width than ZSR) and it seems to adapt better to my ears. The nozzle is back to "normal size" (not oversized like ZSR) so I've had to switch to foam tips because I found the stock tips to be small compared to the big ZSR nozzle. Regarding sound quality, I find them better than ZSR in a couple of aspects: the bass isn't as prominent -or "dark"- as in ZSR which helps emphasize mids and brings a more balanced tuning, and the treble seems to have a bit more definition than ZSR, giving them a bigger, wider and especially more balanced soundstage which I find more appealing than ZSR. There's also a slight increase instrument separation. In fact, after listening & comparing thoroughly ZSR and ED16, I don't want to go back to ZSR, which I now find more muddy and less detailed, with too much emphasis on the low-end. (I'm not saying ZSR are bad, I have enjoyed them so much, but I find ED16 more balanced and enjoyable to listen).

I wish I could compare them to other KZ IEM's (especially to ES4 due to the positive feedback it's receiving) , but one spanish audiophile reviewer on Youtube says ED16 are the best sounding IEM's from KZ right after ZS10 (not far away from those)


----------



## Strat Rider (Jun 1, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> i completely agree with slater on the edr1--you cannot overstate how impressive it is. the zsr/zs5 have bigger, more detailed presentations, but to my current thinking  the edr1 has the most natural-sounding tonality of any of the kzs. the only limitation i've heard is that its lowend tends to wobble on lower-powered sources, tho it tightens considerably when amped.



Thanks all for the insight.
The EDR2 are the first non hybrid KZ I have tried, and I'm not disappointed at all for $6. 
Playing them directly from my note 5, I don't hear overbearing bass, somewhat elevated, yes.

 After reading impressions about the EDR1, they seem to be a worthwhile listen. Fact is, since I haven't jumped on the hot releases (except recently, the ES4, based on so many positive comments) My inner ear (or voice in my head) told me I should listen to some of the pre-hybrid offerings.

This week I did finally jump past _my_ iPod phase, and ordered a Cayin N3. 
I have a feeling that listening through my collection of Phones and iem all over again, things will sound much different.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 1, 2018)

kennyhack said:


> I received ED16 yesterday and left them burning in with pink noise for a couple of hours. I'll compare them to KZ ZSR as they're the only IEM's I've got from KZ. First impression is that ED16 is smaller and less bulky than ZSR (flatter in shape and less width than ZSR) and it seems to adapt better to my ears. The nozzle is back to "normal size" (not oversized like ZSR) so I've had to switch to foam tips because I found the stock tips to be small compared to the big ZSR nozzle. Regarding sound quality, I find them better than ZSR in a couple of aspects: the bass isn't as prominent -or "dark"- as in ZSR which helps emphasize mids and brings a more balanced tuning, and the treble seems to have a bit more definition than ZSR, giving them a bigger, wider and especially more balanced soundstage which I find more appealing than ZSR. There's also a slight increase instrument separation. In fact, after listening & comparing thoroughly ZSR and ED16, I don't want to go back to ZSR, which I now find more muddy and less detailed, with too much emphasis on the low-end. (I'm not saying ZSR are bad, I have enjoyed them so much, but I find ED16 more balanced and enjoyable to listen).
> 
> I wish I could compare them to other KZ IEM's (especially to ES4 due to the positive feedback it's receiving) , but one spanish audiophile reviewer on Youtube says ED16 are the best sounding IEM's from KZ right after ZS10 (not far away from those)



Thank you for sharing those impressions.  Now I don't have to  Always happy to hear that I am not too far off with my perceptions  I hear the ED16 the way you described.  I have not listened to the ZSR for awhile now so I am unable to comment on that part.  Sometimes I do like "dark" though.

I do hate to start hype... do any of us need ALL of these models.  It is a bit overwhelming.

Still want that purple one though when it is released... unless others say it is horrible.


----------



## kennyhack

mbwilson111 said:


> Thank you for sharing those impressions.  Now I don't have to  Always happy to hear that I am not too far off with my perceptions  I hear the ED16 the way you described.  I have not listened to the ZSR for awhile now so I am unable to comment on that part.  Sometimes I do like "dark" though.
> 
> I do hate to start hype thought... do any of us need ALL of these models.  It is a bit overwhelming.
> 
> Still want that purple one though when it is released... unless others say it is horrible.


You're welcome. Sure, it's starting to be a bit overwhelming lately... too many releases in such a short time which can confuse people. I prefer quality over quantity, but it seems that KZ is delivering both quantity and quality lately, because both ES4 and now ED16 seem superior to previous models according to feedback from early adopters!

Haha I didn't know KZ is supposed to realease a purple one.. I'll leave it for my girlfriend


----------



## Slater (Jun 1, 2018)

GrassFed said:


> I have to disagree just a little bit here. You can overstate how impressive it is haha Got mine a couple days ago. They sound great, very similar to Final E2000. Vocals are sweet. But somehow Beethoven' piano sonatas sound crowded and thick. Overall they're excellent value, unbeatable indeed for under $10. But didn't knock my socks off.



Sure, they aren't perfect when comparing them to more expensive IEMs (but neither are most IEMs).

For ~$4 shipped, I welcome anyone to name a better sounding IEM at the same price.

BTW, the sound cleans up nicely (the midrange specifically) when you remove the stock red nozzle (and either replace it with a stainless nozzle screen, or just leave it off altogether). Also replacing the rubbish stock tips for something better makes a difference (like Auvio wide bores or KZ Starlines).


----------



## Slater (Jun 1, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Old news, but I got in a new ED9 a couple days ago. I've had one of the original versions with the bio-diaphragm for years and took a brief listen to the current titanium driver model early last year before it was gifted to my cousin. Now that I've got my own and have had the opportunity to sit and compare to the original, damn is it good. ZS10 is better on a technical level, but with the balanced filters installed the ED9 is just so pleasant to listen too. Tight, deep bass, slightly recessed tonally correct mids with great timbre, and crisp, accurate treble that doesn't peak uncomfortably. The current driver is so much tighter and more controlled than the old one as well. None of the splashiness that turned me away. Glad I got them with a mic as these are going to be seeing a lot of use. What a bargain for 10 CAD.
> 
> ​



I knew I wasn't on drugs when I said the ED9 looked like it had a titanium driver (at least my 2 pairs anyways). When the nozzles are removed, I can see the titanium drivers staring me right in the face plain as day.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-590#post-14155497
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1296#post-13634993
Thanks for finally clearing up the mystery of bio-fiber vs titanium. I was unaware KZ even released 2 revisions of the ED9 with different drivers!


----------



## Slater (Jun 1, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> ...Received another iem today that I'm not allowed to mention that is better than them both!



I would strongly suggest people refrain from saying these kind of 'beat around the bush' comments folks! People have been getting permanently banned lately, as there seems to be a low moderator tolerance about this topic...

I would hate to see more good people banned


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 1, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Old news, but I got in a new ED9 a couple days ago. I've had one of the original versions with the bio-diaphragm for years and took a brief listen to the current titanium driver model early last year before it was gifted to my cousin. Now that I've got my own and have had the opportunity to sit and compare to the original, damn is it good. ZS10 is better on a technical level, but with the balanced filters installed the ED9 is just so pleasant to listen too. Tight, deep bass, slightly recessed tonally correct mids with great timbre, and crisp, accurate treble that doesn't peak uncomfortably. The current driver is so much tighter and more controlled than the old one as well. None of the splashiness that turned me away. Glad I got them with a mic as these are going to be seeing a lot of use. What a bargain for 10 CAD.
> 
> ​



Wow, B9! "Old news" but I never knew that the more recent ED9 had an improved DD. Thanks for the update. I'll be putting in an order for a few.

Still enjoy my originals immensely, though.




 

If KZ ever replaces the HDS3's to a titanium or graphene micro-driver I would be first in line to buy multiples......again! I believe that the HDS3 is the only IEM in KZ's stable that employs "rubidium" magnets. 

From Wikipedia:
"Rubidium has also been considered for use in a thermoelectric generator using the magnetohydrodynamic principle, where hot rubidium ions are passed through a magnetic field. These conduct electricity and act like an armature of a generator thereby generating an electric current."



 

Whatever......I like them.......a lot!



 

There's a lot going on at KZ so this thread should be popping for months.

Still waiting on this one, though!





I wonder if all ATE-S models have beryllium drivers. My ATE-S sounds tight from top to bottom, just very punchy mid-bass.


----------



## toddy0191

Slater said:


> I would strongly suggest people refrain from saying this kind of stuff folks! People are getting permanently banned (and posts deleted) over these comments...
> 
> I would hate to see more good people banned



Good point,  will edit it out!


----------



## Audrix

Hey, anyone happen to notice any upgrade that has similar sound sig as ZSRs? Maybe a $50-$149 iem that has similar sound signature in terms of brightness? I really love the sound of it and wanting an upgrade hehe


----------



## DrevnyKocur (Jun 1, 2018)

Hello guys!
I have been reading this thread for at least 500-600 pages, when I bought KZ ATE (transparent black), through 2 pairs of ZS3 to ZS6.
Now i'm fairly happy with ZS6 (red) but still ZS3 are far more comfortable for daily use so i'm looking into some new KZ models.

I've been eyeballing KZ ZSR/ED16/ZS10 and some TRN like V20 or V60. What i enjoy is deep bass (i'm a basshead) with large amount of sub rather than mid bass and i don't mind mids that are just a bit recessed but not overwhelmingly recessed. I have ZS6 and sibilance is there but it's not a dealbreaker for me. I'm looking for those things and comfort, how they sit in ears, cause i don't have any problems with eartips.

If You know that someone will fit better for me than those listed than i'll be happy to check them of course 

EDIT: I haven't mentioned the source, for most of the time it's xDuoo XQ-23 (bluetooth DAC/Amp)


----------



## Slater (Jun 1, 2018)

Audrix said:


> Hey, anyone happen to notice any upgrade that has similar sound sig as ZSRs? Maybe a $50-$149 iem that has similar sound signature in terms of brightness? I really love the sound of it and wanting an upgrade hehe



Pioneer CH9T is a comparable upgrade IMO. I'm sure there are others, as that seems to be a very crowded (and competitive) price range lately.

BTW, there's a gently used CH9T for sale in the for sale section right now for a great price.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 1, 2018)

kennyhack said:


> Haha I didn't know KZ is supposed to realease a purple one.. I'll leave it for my girlfriend



I expect that the purple will not be quite as bright in real life.  It better be good!









Slater said:


> beat around the bush' comments



People can read and write reviews on amazon for some products...


----------



## Makahl




----------



## Bartig

Makahl said:


>


So is that cookIEMonster or what?


----------



## phower

Slater said:


> I would strongly suggest people refrain from saying these kind of 'beat around the bush' comments folks! People have been getting permanently banned lately, as there seems to be a low moderator tolerance about this topic...
> 
> I would hate to see more good people banned


I don't care whether I get banned. I am not even aware of these rules regarding not mentioning certain iems. So, being someone who doesn't hang around head fi 24/7, if I share some details on what I bought, I get banned because those iems are forbidden to be discussed? Please tell me it is not so, otherwise I would delete my account myself. 
I have no interest in supporting a website with such ridiculous rules.


----------



## 424358

DrevnyKocur said:


> Hello guys!
> I have been reading this thread for at least 500-600 pages, when I bought KZ ATE (transparent black), through 2 pairs of ZS3 to ZS6.
> Now i'm fairly happy with ZS6 (red) but still ZS3 are far more comfortable for daily use so i'm looking into some new KZ models.
> 
> ...




I think you would like the ZSR or ES4.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 1, 2018)

phower said:


> I am not even aware of these rules



all the info regarding the what and why is in the links provided in @Slater 's signature line


----------



## MDH12AX7

DrevnyKocur said:


> Hello guys!
> I have been reading this thread for at least 500-600 pages, when I bought KZ ATE (transparent black), through 2 pairs of ZS3 to ZS6.
> Now i'm fairly happy with ZS6 (red) but still ZS3 are far more comfortable for daily use so i'm looking into some new KZ models.
> 
> ...


The TRN V20 has great sub bass! It is also nicely detailed in mids and highs and does not have an overshadowing mid bass. You might also consider the BGVP Dm5 it has monstrous sub bass. Bit more expensive tho...


----------



## neo_styles

Finally tossed my hat in the ring with this whole Chi-Fi craze after OnePlus sent me their wireless bullets to review. Long story short, they were advertised to have great sound quality, but they're really just all mids. So, to prove a point, I ordered the ES4 along with the BT3 cable and some SpinFits to even out the pricing. More or less, I wanted to show these guys what happens when you pay for branding and somewhat useless features.

Anyway, I ordered my ES4 from Amazon with rush shipping, they came in yesterday, and went straight in the ears. Out of the box, bass impact and extension are massive and the top-end is just a little sharp. After cooking them with tones and sweeps overnight, the harshness almost completely went away and I'm now left with a pair that just about represents my version of a perfect sound signature. I think I messaged my wife raving that they shouldn't sound this good for the price...

Personal preference for now is to use Dekoni Mercury tips and that definitely provides some nice comfort and doesn't seem to require massive insertion to get good bass response. Tonality leans towards warm and laid-back; I'd dare say they sound "cozy." Stage width isn't huge, but it's good enough for most material.

Now here's the problem. I ran them through my test playlist on Spotify and they get a little overloaded on material with constant heavy basslines (mainly the hip-hop tracks). Tokimonsta's track overwhelmed the ES4, but everything else played out great.

I also picked up the silver cable, but didn't realize the connectors weren't angled, so fit is really awkward.

They look and feel good, though. Definitely a keeper.

Edit - God, is this really my first post? I've been lurking for years.


----------



## MDH12AX7

neo_styles said:


> Finally tossed my hat in the ring with this whole Chi-Fi craze after OnePlus sent me their wireless bullets to review. Long story short, they were advertised to have great sound quality, but they're really just all mids. So, to prove a point, I ordered the ES4 along with the BT3 cable and some SpinFits to even out the pricing. More or less, I wanted to show these guys what happens when you pay for branding and somewhat useless features.
> 
> Anyway, I ordered my ES4 from Amazon with rush shipping, they came in yesterday, and went straight in the ears. Out of the box, bass impact and extension are massive and the top-end is just a little sharp. After cooking them with tones and sweeps overnight, the harshness almost completely went away and I'm now left with a pair that just about represents my version of a perfect sound signature. I think I messaged my wife raving that they shouldn't sound this good for the price...
> 
> ...





neo_styles said:


> Finally tossed my hat in the ring with this whole Chi-Fi craze after OnePlus sent me their wireless bullets to review. Long story short, they were advertised to have great sound quality, but they're really just all mids. So, to prove a point, I ordered the ES4 along with the BT3 cable and some SpinFits to even out the pricing. More or less, I wanted to show these guys what happens when you pay for branding and somewhat useless features.
> 
> Anyway, I ordered my ES4 from Amazon with rush shipping, they came in yesterday, and went straight in the ears. Out of the box, bass impact and extension are massive and the top-end is just a little sharp. After cooking them with tones and sweeps overnight, the harshness almost completely went away and I'm now left with a pair that just about represents my version of a perfect sound signature. I think I messaged my wife raving that they shouldn't sound this good for the price...
> 
> ...


Welcome to Head-fi and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## neo_styles

MDH12AX7 said:


> Welcome to Head-fi and sorry about your wallet.


Oh my wallet's screwed for years, but I'm learning to find the deals more and more lately. Appreciate the warm welcome.


----------



## hydroid

Slater said:


> Pioneer CH9T is a comparable upgrade IMO. I'm sure there are others, as that seems to be a very crowded (and competitive) price range lately.
> 
> BTW, there's a gently used CH9T for sale in the for sale section right now for a great price.



Can't go wrong with the CH9T. One of my favorite but I sold them because of the Ibasso IT01.


----------



## VibrantHarmonics (Jun 1, 2018)

I have trouble deciding between KZ ES4, ZSA, ZS6 and ZS10. I have read so many reviews and personal opinion, but I can't decide. One says A is better than B etc.... Although most prefer ZS6, right? So, I have doubts about which model I should choose.


----------



## neo_styles

VibrantHarmonics said:


> I have trouble deciding between KZ ES4, ZSA, ZS6 and ZS10. I have read so many reviews and personal opinion, but I can't decide. One says A is better than B etc.... Although most prefer ZS6, right? So, I have doubts about which model I should choose.


I just took a leap and went with the ES4. So far, not disappointed. What kind of sound signature are you after?


----------



## VibrantHarmonics (Jun 1, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> I just took a leap and went with the ES4. So far, not disappointed. What kind of sound signature are you after?



I have been audializing (thinking in how I want a IEM to sound in my head, not sure if I can explain this well) about the sound. I have a Bluedio T4S headphone, and while I was listening to a song, I was also *audializing* the sound of the song and comparing (hmm, mental vs physical audio...lol, this can't be, but you get my point) it to the sound of the Bluedio.

So my sound signature is: clearity and dynamic response, especially in the mid and high. The bass helps the mid and high sound and must not be overkill but just right. Furthermore, the bass must also be clear and dynamic. The overall sound of the IEM must be energetic and have a wide sound stage.


----------



## mbwilson111

VibrantHarmonics said:


> I have been audializing (thinking in how I want a IEM to sound in my head, not sure if I can explain this well) about the sound. I have a Bluedio T4S headphone, and while I was listening to a song, I was also *audializing* the sound of the song and comparing (hmm, mental vs physical audio...lol, this can't be, but you get my point) it to the sound of the Bluedio.
> 
> So my sound signature is: clearity and dynamic response, especially in the mid and high. The bass is something that helps the mid and high sound it must not be overkill, but the bass must also be clear and dynamic. The overall sound of the IEM must be energetic and have a wide sound stage.



Will this be your first IEM?   What is your price range?


----------



## neo_styles

VibrantHarmonics said:


> I have been audializing (thinking in how I want a IEM to sound in my head, not sure if I can explain this well) about the sound. I have a Bluedio T4S headphone, and while I was listening to a song, I was also *audializing* the sound of the song and comparing (hmm, mental vs physical audio...lol, this can't be, but you get my point) it to the sound of the Bluedio.
> 
> So my sound signature is: clearity and dynamic response, especially in the mid and high. The bass is something that helps the mid and high sound it must not be overkill, but the bass must also be clear and dynamic. The overall sound of the IEM must be energetic and have a wide sound stage.


Then I think you can scratch the ES4 off your list. To my ears, they definitely focus more on the midrange-down.


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

neo_styles said:


> I just took a leap and went with the ES4. So far, not disappointed. What kind of sound signature are you after?



I have been audializing (thinking in how I want a IEM to sound in my head, not sure if I can explain this well) about the sound. I have a Bluedio T4S headphone, and while I was listening to a song, I was also *audializing* the sound of the song and comparing (hmm, mental vs physical audio...lol, this can't be, but you get my point) it to the sound of the Bluedio.

So my sound signature is: clearity and dynamic response, especially in the mid and high. The bass is something that helps the mid and high sound, it must not be overkill, but the bass must also be clear and dynamic. The overall sound of the IEM must be energetic and have a wide sound stage.


mbwilson111 said:


> Will this be your first IEM?   What is your price range?


Yes, this will be my first IEM. Also, my price range is ~€50


----------



## mbwilson111

VibrantHarmonics said:


> Yes, this will be my first IEM. Also, my price range is ~€50



What is your music source and what will you be using them for?  Commuting?  Working out?  Relaxing in the garden?


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

mbwilson111 said:


> What is your music source and what will you be using them for?  Commuting?  Working out?  Relaxing in the garden?


My music source will be Galaxy S6 Edge Plus (I plan to buy a portable DAC in the future) I will use the IEM to relax on my bed at night, working out and listening to music that helps me concentrate. It will be an all-around machine.


----------



## mbwilson111

VibrantHarmonics said:


> My music source will be Galaxy S6 Edge Plus (I plan to buy a portable DAC in the future) I will use the IEM to relax on my bed at night, working out and listening to music that helps me concentrate. It will be an all-around machine.



You might want to consider the KZ ED16.   Not very many people have it yet but it is very nice.  I know that it will stay in place well for working out and has a sturdy cable.  It is flat enough in the ear that you could lie on your side if you were to fall asleep listening.  I find it to have a very pleasing sound signature but am not good at describing exactly.   I love my ZS6 but this ED16 might be a better all-rounder.   I only briefly head the ES4 and the ZSA (which was out of phase at the time) so I can't comment on those.   I also love my ZS10 but it is quite bulky in my ear... not sure how good it would be for working out.  I have only relaxed in my recliner or sat at my PC with it.  Maybe someone else has worked out with the ZS10?


----------



## Slater

hydroid said:


> Can't go wrong with the CH9T. One of my favorite but I sold them because of the Ibasso IT01.



Yup, that's another awesome option for OP


----------



## Zlivan

I use them in the gym almost every day with BT cable. They isolate wery well (for me) and they fit perfectly in my KZ certified earlobes. I don't use extreme volume and I can't hear bad gym music nor people trying to tell me something.

I used to wear ZS3, but I find the ZS10 sound much better and the fit is almost as good for me.


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

mbwilson111 said:


> You might want to consider the KZ ED16.   Not very many people have it yet but it is very nice.  I know that it will stay in place well for working out and has a sturdy cable.  It is flat enough in the ear that you could lie on your side if you were to fall asleep listening.  I find it to have a very pleasing sound signature but am not good at describing exactly.   I love my ZS6 but this ED16 might be a better all-rounder.   I only briefly head the ES4 and the ZSA (which was out of phase at the time) so I can't comment on those.   I also love my ZS10 but it is quite bulky in my ear... not sure how good it would be for working out.  I have only relaxed in my recliner or sat at my PC with it.  Maybe someone else has worked out with the ZS10?





mbwilson111 said:


> You might want to consider the KZ ED16.   Not very many people have it yet but it is very nice.  I know that it will stay in place well for working out and has a sturdy cable.  It is flat enough in the ear that you could lie on your side if you were to fall asleep listening.  I find it to have a very pleasing sound signature but am not good at describing exactly.   I love my ZS6 but this ED16 might be a better all-rounder.   I only briefly head the ES4 and the ZSA (which was out of phase at the time) so I can't comment on those.   I also love my ZS10 but it is quite bulky in my ear... not sure how good it would be for working out.  I have only relaxed in my recliner or sat at my PC with it.  Maybe someone else has worked out with the ZS10?


I understand your view. The ED16 is a great all-around. Knowing that, what do you think about the ZS6 and Zs10 if you compare them?


----------



## DrevnyKocur

MDH12AX7 said:


> The TRN V20 has great sub bass! It is also nicely detailed in mids and highs and does not have an overshadowing mid bass. You might also consider the BGVP Dm5 it has monstrous sub bass. Bit more expensive tho...



What about **** 6in1, is it comparable? And that BGVP DM5 has 1 BA + 1 DD per earphone so overall they have 2 BA + 2 DD right? BGVP doesn't look nice in terms of isolation (just looking at photos tho)


----------



## Slater (Jun 1, 2018)

VibrantHarmonics said:


> I have trouble deciding between KZ ES4, ZSA, ZS6 and ZS10. I have read so many reviews and personal opinion, but I can't decide. One says A is better than B etc.... Although most prefer ZS6, right? So, I have doubts about which model I should choose.



Keep in mine that they're just that - opinions.

Everyone has different hearing, different tastes, different source gear, different physical characteristics that affect fit, etc. You're not going to find any 1 product that all 7 billion people on Earth universally agree upon. That's just reality.

I have IEMs that I love and others don't like at all (and vice versa). Consider movies - do you always agree with every movie critic or rotten tomato/imdb review? I'm willing to bet you don't.

By listening to more than 1 headphone, you hone your skills and build an understanding of what you like and what you don't like.

The good news is that the majority of ChiFi is quite affordable and there are options for every budget. Perhaps instead of trying to get the "perfect" $35 IEM if that's your budget, maybe consider getting 2-3 IEMs (the 'most recommended' one in the $5, $10, and $20 range)?

You can also buy your gear from Amazon, where you can return it easily if you don't like it.


----------



## neo_styles

Just got home and had the chance to put the included tips back on. Seems like the whole FR is a lot more flattened out, though at the expense of some of the bass extension and presence. It's probably a good match for someone looking for something a little more neutral.

You guys weren't kidding when you said KZs were really tip-dependent.


----------



## Audrix (Jun 1, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> You might want to consider the KZ ED16.   Not very many people have it yet but it is very nice.  I know that it will stay in place well for working out and has a sturdy cable.  It is flat enough in the ear that you could lie on your side if you were to fall asleep listening.  I find it to have a very pleasing sound signature but am not good at describing exactly.   I love my ZS6 but this ED16 might be a better all-rounder.   I only briefly head the ES4 and the ZSA (which was out of phase at the time) so I can't comment on those.   I also love my ZS10 but it is quite bulky in my ear... not sure how good it would be for working out.  I have only relaxed in my recliner or sat at my PC with it.  Maybe someone else has worked out with the ZS10?



As it were similar to what @VibrantHarmonics sound sig prefers, how could ed16s compares to ZSRs?


----------



## GamerGuppy

Hey everyone. So far I've been very satisfied with my ZS6. It's is incredibly detailed, has a wide soundstage and has an open & laid-back sound for just a 30 euro IEM. It sounds almost like a full scale open headphone. I'm a little less happy with the ZSR, despite the many positive things I've read on this forum about them. But it might just be me. Namely the enormous nozzle makes it have an uncomfortable fit and an almost pneumatic seal that makes the bass very punchy. I do think they have a better treble response and sound less sibilant then the ZS6's. I was planning to use the ZSR for running/sport, but find myself picking it's younger brother the ZST for comfort reasons, though the ZSTs mids are very recessed.

I've been eyeing for an upgrade to my ZS6 and was hoping to find something a little less sibilant but that keeps many of the good aspects of the ZS6. I really love listening through my HD600's and Oppo PM-3's, which are generally regarded as neutral headphones. Therefore I first looked at the Tin Audio T2. However the sheer beauty of the Ibasso IT01 (and it's cable!) is compelling too. I've owned and liked several slightly v-shaped earphones in the past, so I guess the IT01 would be allright. Especially since I'm mainly searching for an IEM for fun listening sessions and not so much for critical listening.


Would you guys recommend me the IT01?
Maybe someone can tell me how they compare to the ZS6/ZSR (Ive searched this forum extensively and read several impressions already)?
Could anyone that has the IT01 provide me with a picture of the IT01 next to a ZS6/ZSR/ZST, since after the ZSR I am slightly afraid to buy an IEM that is not comfortable.


----------



## stryed

GamerGuppy said:


> Hey everyone. So far I've been very satisfied with my ZS6. It's is incredibly detailed, has a wide soundstage and has an open & laid-back sound for just a 30 euro IEM. It sounds almost like a full scale open headphone. I'm a little less happy with the ZSR, despite the many positive things I've read on this forum about them. But it might just be me. Namely the enormous nozzle makes it have an uncomfortable fit and an almost pneumatic seal that makes the bass very punchy. I do think they have a better treble response and sound less sibilant then the ZS6's. I was planning to use the ZSR for running/sport, but find myself picking it's younger brother the ZST for comfort reasons, though the ZSTs mids are very recessed.
> 
> I've been eyeing for an upgrade to my ZS6 and was hoping to find something a little less sibilant but that keeps many of the good aspects of the ZS6. I really love listening through my HD600's and Oppo PM-3's, which are generally regarded as neutral headphones. Therefore I first looked at the Tin Audio T2. However the sheer beauty of the Ibasso IT01 (and it's cable!) is compelling too. I've owned and liked several slightly v-shaped earphones in the past, so I guess the IT01 would be allright. Especially since I'm mainly searching for an IEM for fun listening sessions and not so much for critical listening.
> 
> ...



I'm as appreciative of the KZ5v2 which is similar to the KZ6, apparently (although some say that the upgrade to KZ6 is more than esthetics). Others say there's slightly less soundstage wowness with the KZ6.
I later pulled the trigger on the IT01 and it has "coherence" that somehow makes everything sound nicer, fuller, although slightly narrower. Technical abilities are better, as seperation is clearer on the bright side and it dives deep in the bass (something the KZ ZS5 cannot replicate), is never sibilant while remaining clear.  The KZ ZS5 does have a surround sound effect that is very enjoyable for commuting especially. 
Price wise, the two are not in the same league and I was a bit disappointed by the soundstage of the IT01 at first but I have no doubt in my mind that the IT01 is what i'd listen to ALWAYS if I was'nt worried about losing it or being mugged  

It was my first >50eu IEM purchase and I don't regret it. Makes me wonder about the HK6 and things in the 200+eu..but I shouldn't as I'm totally happy. As I pondered about my 100ish euro purchase, I wondered if they'd really be better than my KZ5v2 that was also responding well to EQ, and truth is, it's not that far appart except for subass. I'm guessing that with diminishing returns, the 200+eu will not be a even less of a jump in quality, and I'll be buying more fruits and vegetables  for the time being 

Definitely recommend the IT01...If you don't like it (which is a rarity), you still get a nice MMCX cable for anything else.


----------



## mbwilson111

GamerGuppy said:


> Could anyone that has the IT01 provide me with a picture of the IT01 next to a ZS6/ZSR/ZST, since after the ZSR I am slightly afraid to buy an IEM that is not comfortable.



I will take a picture and add it to this post.


----------



## bhazard (Jun 1, 2018)

So what should be my next KZ? ED16 or ES4?

I barely use the ZSR anymore, and my ZS10 are exclusively God of War / Console IEMs based on their tuning and recessed mids.

I gave over 30 pairs of really old KZ models to a Veteran's charity this past weekend. There were a few gems in there, like the ZS5v1, EDR1, etc.


----------



## kennyhack

Audrix said:


> As it were similar to what @VibrantHarmonics sound sig prefers, how could ed16s compares to ZSRs?


look at my first impressions on ED16 vs ZSR in the previous page.


----------



## stryed (Jun 1, 2018)

GamerGuppy said:


> Could anyone that has the IT01 provide me with a picture of the IT01 next to a ZS6/ZSR/ZST, since after the ZSR I am slightly afraid to buy an IEM that is not comfortable.



 

Both are similar in terms of size. The IT01 moves around a little. I had comfort issues with the angular KZ ZS5 to the point of giving up due to soreness for 1mth or so, but my ears got used to it and now I get the angular choice. The IT01 can be moved around a few degrees too much and makes it filmpsy to fit. IT01 is comfy, for sure, even without a proper fit


----------



## mbwilson111

GamerGuppy said:


> a picture of the IT01 next to a ZS6/ZSR/ZST,





mbwilson111 said:


> I will take a picture



Here are a couple of photos... hope it shows what you are looking to see

from left to right... ZSR / ZST / ZS6 / IT01


----------



## MDH12AX7

DrevnyKocur said:


> What about **** 6in1, is it comparable? And that BGVP DM5 has 1 BA + 1 DD per earphone so overall they have 2 BA + 2 DD right? BGVP doesn't look nice in terms of isolation (just looking at photos tho)


I don't have the other you mentioned but the  BGVP is actually 2dd and 2 ba per side. The isolation isn't great but it has more sub bass than anything else I own. I cant recommend it for all music types but for edm, dubstep or even metal its good. Mids are a but thin but eq can help. For a better all rounder with good sub bass the V20 is hard to beat in my opinion.


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 1, 2018)

TRN Bluetooth cable and SpinFit tips just arrived. I'm an instant fan. These tips are so effing comfortable.


----------



## vladstef

neo_styles said:


> TRN Bluetooth cable and SpinFit tips just arrived. I'm an instant fan. These tips are so effing comfortable.



I have the same tips and they are very uncomforable for me unless I use a very shallow fit which defeats the purpose. They are also very expensive and have a narrow bore which is not optimal for the sound in many cases.
I assume that for some these will be amazing but I wouldn't recommend them unless you can try them before buying.


----------



## neo_styles

vladstef said:


> I have the same tips and they are very uncomforable for me unless I use a very shallow fit which defeats the purpose. They are also very expensive and have a narrow bore which is not optimal for the sound in many cases.
> I assume that for some these will be amazing but I wouldn't recommend them unless you can try them before buying.


I guess I should explain that I'm used to Shure's triple-flange tips, which go much further into your ear than the CP240. Comparing the softness of the silicone between the two, the SpinFits come out on top, which is probably why I think they're comfortable. I totally understand how that might not be the case for some people.


----------



## pbui44

mbwilson111 said:


> Here are a couple of photos... hope it shows what you are looking to see
> 
> from left to right... ZSR / ZST / ZS6 / IT01



Wow, great pictures.


----------



## vladstef

neo_styles said:


> I guess I should explain that I'm used to Shure's triple-flange tips, which go much further into your ear than the CP240. Comparing the softness of the silicone between the two, the SpinFits come out on top, which is probably why I think they're comfortable. I totally understand how that might not be the case for some people.



Yeah, that's understandable. I kept trying to push these Spinfits as much as I could in my ears and it could be that I'm not exactly using them properly, that is, always expecting a deep fit. I have the smallest (blue CP240) and I usually use medium sized tips which might be nudging me to trying to insert them further in than I should. Maybe they should be worn somewhere in between deep and shallow fit.


----------



## neo_styles

vladstef said:


> Yeah, that's understandable. I kept trying to push these Spinfits as much as I could in my ears and it could be that I'm not exactly using them properly, that is, always expecting a deep fit. I have the smallest (blue CP240) and I usually use medium sized tips which might be nudging me to trying to insert them further in than I should. Maybe they should be worn somewhere in between deep and shallow fit.


Best way I've found to insert my tips is to do it with an open jaw. If you can feel some sort of seal there, you're definitely going to have one with your mouth closed. If you went a size down on the tips, that's probably where you're getting your fit issues. I went with Medium and almost feel like I could go a size up and be better off.

The SFs are definitely somewhere in between right in and all-the-way in terms of insertion. With my Dekoni, they barely have to rest inside the canal for a nice fit. Thinking that _spin_ was in the name, I did have better luck if I slowly rotated these on insertion. Also, it might not be completely sanitary, but when the tips are moist, finding a good seal is pretty easy.


----------



## xinn47

Hello! New to the forums here, Can anybody tell if the ES4s are a worthwhile upgrade from ZS3s? What's their main difference? and which has better soundstage? I'm kinda looking for a new IEMs that are less "in your face" sound. ZS3s are great but in my ears, they sound really, really direct in your face (if I'm not making sense sorry!)


----------



## mbwilson111

MDH12AX7 said:


> For a better all rounder with good sub bass the V20 is hard to beat in my opinion.



Yes, the TRN V20 is a great all rounder.  Love mine.



neo_styles said:


> Also, it might not be completely sanitary, but when the tips are moist, finding a good seal is pretty easy.



There are products you can buy to moisten tips.  Using saliva does not seem like a good idea.


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, the TRN V20 is a great all rounder.  Love mine.
> 
> 
> 
> There are products you can buy to moisten tips.  Using saliva does not seem like a good idea.


Mineral oil is good for that and safe for ears. Actually my doctor recommended it to help clean out ear wax.


----------



## mbwilson111

MDH12AX7 said:


> Mineral oil is good for that and safe for ears. Actually my doctor recommended it to help clean out ear wax.



Great idea.  I have some here for use on wood surfaces.  I will try that.  My ears might get less irritated.  I hope it doesn't matter that the oil is at least 10 years old.  One reason I don't like to do a-b comparisons between iems is because doing so does irritate my ears.  It's like a dry friction.  Of course a-b comparisons also do my head in but that's another story.


----------



## FettaBiscottata (Jun 2, 2018)

(My english skills are a bit rusty, sorry for that in advance)

Hey, there. I'm new here and i just received my first IEM. KZ ES4.
Maybe my espectations were a bit higher, or maybe i'm evalutating them wrong.
I had already a 10 years old pair of earbuds (1 neodymium driver 9mm each) , and i'm using them as a comparasion.
The amount of bass frequency is the same
Mids are somewhat lacking, and there are to much highs for my taste.
Now, my old earbuds were a 80$ pair, and the KZ ES4 only costs 15$.
Thinking like that, in that case they exceed a lot my expectations, but if i think as they have the same performance as a 10y old pair of earbuds, eh.

However, they are beautiful and confortable, and the detachable cable is amazing (i got the extra white cable as a early pre-order)

I'm looking for some criticism of my way of thinking.

Edit: I'm using the ALC1220 as amplifier, also, seems that they are getting better over-time.

Posting some photos:

_[click to enlarge]_


----------



## MDH12AX7

FettaBiscottata said:


> (My english skills are a bit rusty, sorry for that in advance)
> 
> Hey, there. I'm new here and i just received my first IEM. KZ ES4.
> Maybe my espectations were a bit higher, or maybe i'm evalutating them wrong.
> ...


Dang! Wish I got the cyan. Looks nice. It was out of stock so I have a black one. Love that green tho.....


----------



## VibrantHarmonics (Jun 2, 2018)

-


----------



## chechu21

Hello! I’am a newbie in the chifi!

I want to buy two of the recent models of kz. I want the best  with v-shaped profile and the best with basshead profile.

Can you advise experts in chifi. Many many thanks!!!


----------



## tamburash

For both KZ ZSR


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 2, 2018)

FettaBiscottata said:


> (My english skills are a bit rusty, sorry for that in advance)
> 
> Hey, there. I'm new here and i just received my first IEM. KZ ES4.
> Maybe my espectations were a bit higher, or maybe i'm evalutating them wrong.
> ...



Welcome to our world.........

.....and sorry about your wallet.

By the way, great photos.

If the highs are too much for you right now you might be better suited trying out the ATE or ATR and progress from there.




 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 2, 2018)

FettaBiscottata said:


> (My english skills are a bit rusty, sorry for that in advance)
> 
> Hey, there. I'm new here and i just received my first IEM. KZ ES4.
> Maybe my espectations were a bit higher, or maybe i'm evalutating them wrong.
> ...


Well hello fellow ES4 user! I've found that the treble tames off a bit when you use either foam tips or SpinFits. Also, I saw a pretty good drop in sibilance once I let them cook in overnight. Once I added in the SpinFits, I ended up with something that was much more neutral, but still willing to give you as much bass as the song required. Also keep in mind that silver (or silver-tinned copper) cables are accused of boosting higher frequencies. If you're finding them too bright, it might be worth your time to step back to the stock cable and see if your impressions change.

I'll also add in for the group that I've been all smiles with the TRN Bluetooth cable between yesterday and today. I can confirm that it'll play at least 24/44.1 and battery life seems more than reasonable. I haven't worn mine out yet, but based on trend, I do believe in the 8-hour advertised spec.


----------



## FettaBiscottata

neo_styles said:


> Well hello fellow ES4 user! I've found that the treble tames off a bit when you use either foam tips or SpinFits. Also, I saw a pretty good drop in sibilance once I let them cook in overnight. Once I added in the SpinFits, I ended up with something that was much more neutral, but still willing to give you as much bass as the song required. Also keep in mind that silver (or silver-tinned copper) cables are accused of boosting higher frequencies. If you're finding them too bright, it might be worth your time to step back to the stock cable and see if your impressions change.
> 
> I'll also add in the for the group that I've been all smiles with the TRN Bluetooth cable between yesterday and today. I can confirm that it'll play at least 24/44.1 and battery life seems more than reasonable. I haven't worn mine out yet, but based on trend, I do believe in the 8-hour advertised spec.



Looking to buy some tips then, thanks for the advice .
I dont need any bluetooth cable right now, they are plugged at my pc as main daily driver.



DocHoliday said:


> Welcome to our world.........
> 
> .....and sorry about your wallet.
> 
> ...



I'm gettin used of them anyway.
Also, after setted a custom equalizer now they are more warm and deep.
I definitely like them, right now.


----------



## toddy0191

chechu21 said:


> Hello! I’am a newbie in the chifi!
> 
> I want to buy two of the recent models of kz. I want the best  with v-shaped profile and the best with basshead profile.
> 
> Can you advise experts in chifi. Many many thanks!!!



For basshead look no further than ED15!


----------



## Bartig

Made these pictures. Thinking of a KZ marketing career now.


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jun 3, 2018)

Got my ES4, good for $20 but nothing groundbreaking. OK bass, mids more forward than usual KZ with some rough sections in the 4K range, sparkly highs but missing details and some frequencies. Without EQ they have a good amount of everything and are pleasant to listen, but they get quite congested on busy tracks. An equalized ZS6 is better in every way, larger sondstage, better details and separation and nicer sound overall.


----------



## Bartig

HerrXRDS said:


> Got my ES4, good for $20 but nothing groundbreaking. OK bass, mids more forward than usual KZ with some rough sections in the 4K range, sparkly highs but missing details and some frequencies. Without EQ they have a good amount of everything and are pleasant to listen, but they get quite congested on busy tracks. An equalized ZS6 is better in every way, larger sondstage, better details and separation and nicer sound overall.


I’m in the middle of a big KZ comparison in which I will add the ZSA too, but those are my first test notes too. Everyone buying a random KZ IEM will not regret it. It’s just it can get even better.


----------



## Lord Rexter

My KZ ZS10 right side just died (not even 30 hours of use ) anyone had a similar experience, I dunno if I got a badly QCed one.


----------



## Slater

Lord Rexter said:


> My KZ ZS10 right side just died (not even 30 hours of use ) anyone had a similar experience, I dunno if I got a badly QCed one.



You aren't one of the people that burns headphones in at 100% MAX volume levels are you (ie ear bleed level)?

Did you contact the seller yet?


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> You aren't one of the people that burns headphones in at 100% MAX volume levels are you (ie ear bleed level)?



Surely no one does that do they?


----------



## Lord Rexter

Slater said:


> You aren't one of the people that burns headphones in at 100% MAX volume levels are you (ie ear bleed level)?
> 
> Did you contact the seller yet?


No I was listening to music at fairly low volume on my iFi iDSD BL and FiiO X5 3rd gen. And yes, I did drop a message to the Aliexpress seller (who shall not be named here).


----------



## Lord Rexter (Jun 3, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Surely no one does that do they?


Even if I wanted I can't do that thanks to my migraines. I would have episodes of migraines for a week or more incase I pushed myself to listen at max volume.


----------



## Slater (Jun 3, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Surely no one does that do they?



Yes, believe it or not there are.



Lord Rexter said:


> Even if I wanted I can't do that thanks to my migraines. I would have episodes of migraines for a week for more incase I pushed myself to listen max volume.



No, I mean 'burning them in' as in not listening with your ears but rather taking a brand new pair of headphones out of the box, attaching a source, playing a varied selection of music (or alternatively white/pink noise) on a continuous loop, and sticking them in a drawer or wrapping them inside of a blanket for 30-200 hours. The music/noise 'exercises the drivers' (ie 'burn-in').

However, it should always be done at a normal listening level (ie 40%-50% or whatever). But there are some people that think that 'more is better', so they burn-in at 100% volume (ie inhuman levels). And that is a great way to fry BAs and blow dynamic drivers.


----------



## Lord Rexter (Jun 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yes, believe it or not there are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Got you, well I did burn them in using a New speaker and headphone burn in track for around 25 hours (not at single stretch) at 47 Volume on FiiO X5 3rd gen 2.5mm Balanced output with Turbo mode on. (I know that burn in at higher volumes is bad thanks to Head Fi folks). Today started listening to couple of my favorites with my Amp and just after 1 hour the right ear cup died and there was driver flex on the right side. I ordered all 3 colors Red/Blue/Black all at the same time and same seller, only tested Blue one may be 10 hours of burn in. Now I'm fret that using KZ ZS10s with iFi iDSD BL would be risky.


----------



## Mr. Browstone

So I am the only one having really big QC control regarding KZ ZS6? I have already searched the thread to see if someone has encountered something like this but I haven't had much luck. The left IEM's female connector is incredible loose and the right one is slightly wiggly. They have been like this since day one and (I know, stupid me) didn't reach KZ or Gearbest regarding this issue since they were a xmas gift. http://www.mediafire.com/file/9uip1217cqqf4ea/kz.mp4/file

I have already contacted Kz in their Facebook page and the Aliexpress official store, let's see wha they have to say about this.

Also, hello, it's been literally years since I post in this lovely community.


----------



## Slater (Jun 4, 2018)

Mr. Browstone said:


> So I am the only one having really big QC control regarding KZ ZS6? I have already searched the thread to see if someone has encountered something like this but I haven't had much luck. The left IEM's female connector is incredible loose and the right one is slightly wiggly. They have been like this since day one and (I know, stupid me) didn't reach KZ or Gearbest regarding this issue since they were a xmas gift. http://www.mediafire.com/file/9uip1217cqqf4ea/kz.mp4/file
> 
> I have already contacted Kz in their Facebook page and the Aliexpress official store, let's see wha they have to say about this.
> 
> Also, hello, it's been literally years since I post in this lovely community.



Many of them wiggle,  but they are not in danger of falling out. The shell has a notch machined into the aluminum, and there is a molded protrusion on the 2-pin connector that fits into the machined notch. It is physically impossible for the 2-pin connector to fall out.

There is a slight size tolerance of a few thousands of an inch for CNC machining of the aluminum shell, and also a slight size tolerance of a few thousands of an inch for the injection molded plastic 2-pin connector body. On some combinations of shells and connector bodies, you will get a slightly tight fit, while on other combinations you will get a slightly loose fit.

But in all cases, the molded protrusion that mates with the machined notch fully captures the 2-pin plug and it will not fall out.

Also in all cases (assuming you are using a genuine KZ 0.75mm cable), the male pins on the cable plug will still make solid contact with the female pins in the 2-pin socket, regardless of how tight or loose the 2-pin socket body is situated in the aluminum shell.

So bottom line is that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with your ZS6, and the looseness you are experiencing is well within totally normal manufacturing tolerances.

If it would be helpful to visualize this, let me know and I can show you what I’m talking about by taking photos.


----------



## Mr. Browstone

Slater said:


> Many of them wiggle,  but they are not in danger of falling out. The shell has a notch machined into the aluminum, and there is a molded protrusion on the 2-pin connector that fits into the machined notch. It is physically impossible for the 2-pin connector to fall out.
> 
> There is a slight size tolerance of a few thousands of an inch for CNC machining of the aluminum shell, and also a slight size tolerance of a few thousands of an inch for the injection molded plastic 2-pin connector body. On some combinations of shells and connector bodies, you will get a slightly tight fit, while on other combinations you will get a slightly loose fit. But in both cases, the molded protrusion that mates with the machined notch fully captures the 2-pin plug and it will not fall out.
> 
> So bottom line is that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with your ZS6, and the looseness you are experiencing is well within totally normal manufacturing tolerances.




Wow. Thank you for the detailed and incredibly clear answer, Slater. I will feel much better wearing them in the public transportation without the fear of them falling out .

I will still report back on what KZ has to say about this. 

Cheers, buddy.


----------



## Slater (Jun 4, 2018)

Mr. Browstone said:


> Wow. Thank you for the detailed and incredibly clear answer, Slater. I will feel much better wearing them in the public transportation without the fear of them falling out .
> 
> I will still report back on what KZ has to say about this.
> 
> Cheers, buddy.



No problem, glad to help.

I also want to clarify, after you plug the cable into the 2-pin socket (ignoring any wiggling of the socket itself), does the cable stay in tight and not UNPLUG easily?


----------



## Mr. Browstone

Slater said:


> No problem, glad to help.
> 
> I also want to clarify, after you plug the cable into the 2-pin socket (ignoring any wiggling of the socket itself), does the cable stay in tight and not UNPLUG easily?




Oh, wait. Maybe I didn't make myself clear in the first post. I am able to unplug the left monitor with VERY LITTLE force (with a single hand, actually) as shown in the video I uploaded to Mediafire (which I also sent to KZ) in the first post.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> You aren't one of the people that burns headphones in at 100% MAX volume levels are you (ie ear bleed level)?
> 
> Did you contact the seller yet?



this was me before, sort of 

not exactly max volume, but more or less ear-bleed level. Though I usually only do it to IEMs that I don't like OOTB and will go to the pile regardless.


----------



## Slater

Mr. Browstone said:


> Oh, wait. Maybe I didn't make myself clear in the first post. I am able to unplug the left monitor with VERY LITTLE force (with a single hand, actually) as shown in the video I uploaded to Mediafire (which I also sent to KZ) in the first post.



OK, I apologize, I misunderstood what the issue was.

I thought the cable plugged into the jack tightly, but the 2-pin socket itself wiggled in the housing. In that case, that is normal and there is no risk of anything falling out.

Now that I've watched the video, I see that the cable does NOT plug in tightly, and unplugs with little force. That is NOT normal, and there is obviously a risk of the cable falling out and you losing the IEM.

So you need to try and determine if the problem is with the cable or the IEM.

1. Do you have another cable you can test to see if it fits any better?
2. Also, since your LEFT earpiece of loose when you plug the LEFT cable in, what happens if you switch the sides of the cable (Right cable into Left earpiece and vice versa). It would only be a test. If the looseness follows the LEFT cable, then this means that the cable is the problem (and replacing the cable should solve the issue). However, if the looseness follows the LEFT earpiece, then this means that the left earpiece has an issue.

You can tweak the cable and/or socket to get a tighter fit, but I would do the above tests and post the results 1st before we go any further.


----------



## Mr. Browstone

Slater said:


> OK, I apologize, I misunderstood what the issue was.
> 
> I thought the cable plugged into the jack tightly, but the 2-pin socket itself wiggled in the housing. In that case, that is normal and there is no risk of anything falling out.
> 
> ...



I own the Bluetooth upgrade module and the results are the same, so I'm positive it's an issue with the femaleplug and not the cables. Switching sides of the same cable (right plug in left iem and vice versa) results in the same overly loose fit. I was actually wondering is there was any way to make it tighter. 


I already tried putting plastic wrappers around the cable connector to try to make it tighter but it barely helps at all. Gluing the plugs would be my last resort but I like having the possibility of connecting the Bluetooth module when I go running.


----------



## CoiL

Bartig said:


> *I’m in the middle of a big KZ comparison in which I will add the ZSA* too, but those are my first test notes too. Everyone buying a random KZ IEM will not regret it. It’s just it can get even better.


Waiting for that! Decided to put my ZSA & ES4 buy "on hold" and wait more impressions. Your ears seem to "align" with mine, so, waiting for Your impressions...


----------



## avionzero

Mr. Browstone said:


> I own the Bluetooth upgrade module and the results are the same, so I'm positive it's an issue with the femaleplug and not the cables. Switching sides of the same cable (right plug in left iem and vice versa) results in the same overly loose fit. I was actually wondering is there was any way to make it tighter.
> 
> 
> I already tried putting plastic wrappers around the cable connector to try to make it tighter but it barely helps at all. Gluing the plugs would be my last resort but I like having the possibility of connecting the Bluetooth module when I go running.



Or use a 0.78mm cable, i think gluing it will not last long.

Btw i tried to measure the ZS10 0.75mm cable with a caliper and I'm getting a 0.77mm reading.


----------



## kennyhack (Jun 4, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Waiting for that! Decided to put my ZSA & ES4 buy "on hold" and wait more impressions. Your ears seem to "align" with mine, so, waiting for Your impressions...


ED16 is clearly an upgrade from both ZSA and ES4 . It has a biggger dynamic driver (8mm on ZSA vs 10mm on ED16) and the extra balanced armature on ED16 makes a difference on sound clarity and quality.

So far I'm really happy I chose ED16, it's way better than ZSR, and a bit better than ZSA and ES4. You can read my impressions on ED16 in previous pages.


----------



## Slater (Jun 4, 2018)

Mr. Browstone said:


> I own the Bluetooth upgrade module and the results are the same, so I'm positive it's an issue with the femaleplug and not the cables. Switching sides of the same cable (right plug in left iem and vice versa) results in the same overly loose fit. I was actually wondering is there was any way to make it tighter.
> 
> 
> I already tried putting plastic wrappers around the cable connector to try to make it tighter but it barely helps at all. Gluing the plugs would be my last resort but I like having the possibility of connecting the Bluetooth module when I go running.





avionzero said:


> Or use a 0.78mm cable, i think gluing it will not last long.
> 
> Btw i tried to measure the ZS10 0.75mm cable with a caliper and I'm getting a 0.77mm reading.



Here’s your options:

1. Use a 0.78mm cable.

2. Splay the legs of the male 2-pin cable a few degrees. Not much, but just enough so the plug stays in the socket.

3. Get the 8-braid silver upgrade cable, and trim the excess plastic from the make ends. This exposes much more of the male pins, which will make them long enough to reach deeper into the female socket for a more secure fit.

4. Use a needle to close the female pins in the 2-pin socket slightly. The female pins are split to allow flex, and you can use this flex to your advantage and make the pins smaller.

5: Obviously you can glue the plug in place using plastic bonding epoxy, but there’s no need to resort to that extreme, if you can just do steps 1-4 instead.

Let me know if you’re confused about any of those options, and I can clarify, add photos, etc.


----------



## deaftpunk

kennyhack said:


> ED16 is clearly an upgrade from both ZSA and ES4 . It has a biggger dynamic driver (8mm on ZSA vs 10mm on ED16) and the extra balanced armature on ED16 makes a difference on sound clarity and quality.
> 
> So far I'm really happy I chose ED16, it's way better than ZSR, and a bit better than ZSA and ES4. You can read my impressions on ED16 in previous pages.


So do you own the ZSA and ES4 as well? or are you just comparing your ED16s to thin air? You should know specs don't always make better sound.


----------



## CoiL

kennyhack said:


> ED16 is clearly an upgrade from both ZSA and ES4 . It has a biggger dynamic driver (8mm on ZSA vs 10mm on ED16) and the extra balanced armature on ED16 makes a difference on sound clarity and quality.
> So far I'm really happy I chose ED16, it's way better than ZSR, and a bit better than ZSA and ES4. You can read my impressions on ED16 in previous pages.





deaftpunk said:


> So do you own the ZSA and ES4 as well? or are you just comparing your ED16s to thin air? You should know specs don't always make better sound.


Exactly!

Driver size and BA presence does not mean anything!

You seem to be "beginner" in IEMs ? Collecting posts? No insult intended


----------



## kennyhack (Jun 4, 2018)

Collecting posts? N


CoiL said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Driver size and BA presence does not mean anything!
> 
> You seem to be "beginner" in IEMs ? Collecting posts? No insult intended


Collecting posts? Not at all.  I'll try to explain.

I'm not comparing to thin air. I shared my firsr impressions on ED16 vs ZSR in previous pages (go and look for it), and even though I don't have ZSA or ES4, I support my opinion -technically and not just on "impressions" based on a spanish audiophile reviewer who has reviewed ED16 pretty scientifically and then compared it to ZSA and ES4 which he actually owns.

So before sharing my impressions solely on "what I think" , I made sure to listen to this guy's compared review.

1st part. Here's the ED16 virtual teardown analysis step by step, and the sound comparison to ZSA and ES4. (in spanish language)


2nd part




Hope I tried to convey it's not only I'm trying to collect posts, but to try to share some info on the new ED16 as one of the firsts who have it.

Cheers!


----------



## CoiL

kennyhack said:


> ... even though I don't have ZSA or ES4...



That`s the thing - You can`t judge something based on others impressions. And my answer was mainly posted towards claim like bigger&more(BA)=better.
I haven`t heard cheap chi-fi IEM (like KZ) which can beat IT01 (single DD) sound quality. Closest has been ZS5v1 with proper source and amping (which bests littlebit in soundstage size/width).


----------



## kennyhack (Jun 4, 2018)

CoiL said:


> That`s the thing - You can`t judge something based on others impressions. And my answer was mainly posted towards claim like bigger&more(BA)=better.
> I haven`t heard cheap chi-fi IEM (like KZ) which can beat IT01 (single DD) sound quality. Closest has been ZS5v1 with proper source and amping (which bests littlebit in soundstage size/width).


Ok, you're right CoiL, just wanted to help, but in the end you're right. I only own ZSR and ED16, so I'll keep saying it's definetely a nice upgrade from ZSR (new frequency separation unit, seems to have the same graphene coated DD as ES4 and bigger resonating chamber, and a more balanced and defined sound, as I wrote in previous pages a mini-review/first impressions.

P.S. thanks for the warm welcome hahaha 

P.S.2: When someone knows more stuff than me, I tend to trust them, mainly because they have more to say and you can learn from them. Especially when their opinion is the same as mine.


----------



## Vestat

kennyhack said:


> based on a spanish audiophile reviewer who has reviewed ED16 pretty scientifically



Sorry man but this review is nothing scientific.
This guy is just reading and looking at the images of the advertisement stuff he could find on Aliexpress.
I speak a perfect spanish so I understand every single word he says. Sorry but he is giving a general and just long told impression about ed16 based on images and a listening test based on a very old song with a Youtube sampling quality.
I believe you should make this kind of test with different gear if you then want to make a review for the community.


----------



## kennyhack (Jun 4, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Sorry man but this review is nothing scientific.
> This guy is just reading and looking at the images of the advertisement stuff he could find on Aliexpress.
> I speak a perfect spanish so I understand every single word he says. Sorry but he is giving a general and just long told impression about ed16 based on images and a listening test based on a very old song with a Youtube sampling quality.
> I believe you should make this kind of test with different gear if you then want to make a review for the community.


Ok, I get your point but I wouldn't call it a "general impression" when he spends 30min talking. I agree with you about the listening test quality though. We'll then have to wait for more people to get their ED16's along with more serious and in-depth reviews 

In the meanwhile, I'm enjoying my new KZ so much.


----------



## CoiL

kennyhack said:


> Ok, I get your point but I wouldn't call it a "general impression" when he spends 30min talking.


3min talk by proper audiophile (with proper gear, music selection, measurements etc.) can tell 100x more than 30min with "just a Youtube reviewer" 
Just "be careful" with what You claim here, there are lot of very experienced audiophiles here. Tune-in and have fun! PS - sorry about Your wallet!


----------



## blur.png (Jun 4, 2018)

when kz said the es4 is "professional level" i think they mean it, i've been switching back and forth between the es4 & zs6
and the es4 sounds better for me,
punchier bass than the zs6 but not overwhelming like the rock zircon
zs6-like highs with little to no piercing, the zs6 is just slightly brighter
the slight trade offs are:
a narrower soundstage (very noticeable from the zs6) ,s̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶d̶e̶t̶a̶i̶l̶  (it actually has the same/more detail than zs6) & less airy than the zs6
my problems are:
the memory wire, in the zs6 its good, in the es4 its awful (loose & wobbly, could be an unlucky batch)
and the fit, the zs6 fits easily, the es4 is difficult for me
oh and both uses foam eartips, since i don't like kz stock tips
i feel cheated buying the zs6 :v







the es4 is definitely the best earphone i've ever heard, a perfect balance between bass & highs

*also,this is my first post


----------



## Slater (Jun 4, 2018)

blur.png said:


> when kz said the es4 is "professional level" i think they mean it, i've been switching back and forth between the es4 & zs6
> and the es4 sounds better for me,
> punchier bass than the zs6 but not overwhelming like the rock zircon
> zs6-like highs with little to no piercing, the zs6 is just slightly brighter
> ...



Welcome friend!

A lot of us run without the memory wires at all.

It is very easy to remove. You just pick at the bottom of the metal wire using your fingernail, and once the metal wire is exposed, you 'peel' it back like a banana peel (or a string cheese snack).


----------



## Vestat

blur.png said:


> punchier bass than the zs6 but not overwhelming like the rock zircon
> zs6-like highs with little to no piercing, the zs6 is just slightly brighter



I am Very happy to hear this. I love ZS6 but, apart of the sibilances, I find that the Bass is often "not enough" even if still present, rumbling and detailed.
Less pierce in the highs is just a nice plus considering I almost solved the problem with some eq and getting used to it..


----------



## TJK81

Mr. Browstone said:


> So I am the only one having really big QC control regarding KZ ZS6? I have already searched the thread to see if someone has encountered something like this but I haven't had much luck. The left IEM's female connector is incredible loose and the right one is slightly wiggly. They have been like this since day one and (I know, stupid me) didn't reach KZ or Gearbest regarding this issue since they were a xmas gift. http://www.mediafire.com/file/9uip1217cqqf4ea/kz.mp4/file
> 
> I have already contacted Kz in their Facebook page and the Aliexpress official store, let's see wha they have to say about this.
> 
> Also, hello, it's been literally years since I post in this lovely community.


I had same issue with my ZS6's. A few drops of the 2-compound epoxy solved the issue completly. Just unscrew 2 torx screws (or all 3 if you want) of the problematic side (recommend to do it on both sides) and put a few drops of epoxy where the pin is situated inside the shell (not too much or you leave big mess inside). Assamble it again and leave to harden 12hours (24h best).


----------



## blur.png

Mr. Browstone said:


> So I am the only one having really big QC control regarding KZ ZS6? I have already searched the thread to see if someone has encountered something like this but I haven't had much luck. The left IEM's female connector is incredible loose and the right one is slightly wiggly. They have been like this since day one and (I know, stupid me) didn't reach KZ or Gearbest regarding this issue since they were a xmas gift. http://www.mediafire.com/file/9uip1217cqqf4ea/kz.mp4/file
> 
> I have already contacted Kz in their Facebook page and the Aliexpress official store, let's see wha they have to say about this.
> 
> Also, hello, it's been literally years since I post in this lovely community.


just sharing my unlucky experience with kz too,
my zs6 left side connector went wiggly and the right side died a week after i received them , i opened the dead side, resolder the connection and it worked again
to add salt to the wound my later kz purchase, the zse (which is supposed to be my backup iem) has a defective right side (dangling driver) making them sound off
so yea, QC isnt KZ's strongest point


----------



## RyanM

The ES4 is a really fantastic earphone, from what I'm hearing so far. Like, really really good. And I didn't really like much about the ZSR, and found treble overbearing on the ZS6. I do love the ZS5 (v1) and ZS3 however. I'm really impressed and it makes me want to give the ZSA and ZS10 a shot for sure.


----------



## Mr. Browstone

TJK81 said:


> I had same issue with my ZS6's. A few drops of the 2-compound epoxy solved the issue completly. Just unscrew 2 torx screws (or all 3 if you want) of the problematic side (recommend to do it on both sides) and put a few drops of epoxy where the pin is situated inside the shell (not too much or you leave big mess inside). Assamble it again and leave to harden 12hours (24h best).



You mean you just glued the connector? Do you happend to have a picture of what it looks like after you applied the glue? I was tempted to do this, but having a deattachable cable is a huge plus for me.


----------



## Mr. Browstone

Slater said:


> Here’s your options:
> 
> 1. Use a 0.78mm cable.
> 
> ...




I think I'm going to try #2 first and then #4. Do you happend to have any picture of what both the connector and the pins look like after the mod? Thank you, buddy.


----------



## Deveraux

RyanM said:


> The ES4 is a really fantastic earphone, from what I'm hearing so far. Like, really really good. And I didn't really like much about the ZSR, and found treble overbearing on the ZS6. I do love the ZS5 (v1) and ZS3 however. I'm really impressed and it makes me want to give the ZSA and ZS10 a shot for sure.


How do you compare them with the ZS5 v1? I've the v1 currently and the ES4 should be here within a week.


----------



## CoiL

RyanM said:


> The ES4 is a really fantastic earphone, from what I'm hearing so far. Like, really really good. And I didn't really like much about the ZSR, and found treble overbearing on the ZS6. I do love the ZS5 (v1) and ZS3 however. I'm really impressed and it makes me want to give the ZSA and ZS10 a shot for sure.


How about ZS5v1 soundstage&airiness compared to ES4 ? What are You using as source gear (is ZS5v1 amped enough + are You using low output impedance source)?
Please more impressions ZS5v1 vs. ES4 !


----------



## TJK81

Mr. Browstone said:


> You mean you just glued the connector? Do you happend to have a picture of what it looks like after you applied the glue? I was tempted to do this, but having a deattachable cable is a huge plus for me.


I still have detach cable on my ZS6's. I just put a little bit of epoxy only inside the shell to stick the shell and inner pin together.


----------



## RyanM

CoiL said:


> How about ZS5v1 soundstage&airiness compared to ES4 ? What are You using as source gear (is ZS5v1 amped enough + are You using low output impedance source)?
> Please more impressions ZS5v1 vs. ES4 !



Well I am at work right now and don't have either phones with me and I hesitate to do a direct comparison on memory (which is pretty fickle when it comes to audio). That said, what immediately struck me about the ES4 was that the vocals and strings have an authentic natural timber, and a good amount of thickness to them. Also, it's unusually neutral for a KZ earphone - at least one that's been released in the last 8-10 months or so. Whereas the ZSR sounds pretty hollow to me in the midrange, the ES4 is quite lively and musical. If KZ packaged this as their "Professional" line, and sold this earphone for $50-60, I wouldn't bat an eye at that. I mean, my immediate thought was that there must be some kind of mistake - it just sounded so resolving and well tuned. I did have fairly low expectations as I was pretty underwhelmed by the ES3 and ZSR prior. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the next ZS5, in terms of popularity.


----------



## Slater

blur.png said:


> just sharing my unlucky experience with kz too,
> my zs6 left side connector went wiggly and the right side died a week after i received them , i opened the dead side, resolder the connection and it worked again
> to add salt to the wound my later kz purchase, the zse (which is supposed to be my backup iem) has a defective right side (dangling driver) making them sound off
> so yea, QC isnt KZ's strongest point


----------



## Slater

Mr. Browstone said:


> I think I'm going to try #2 first and then #4. Do you happend to have any picture of what both the connector and the pins look like after the mod? Thank you, buddy.



Yeah, I'll take some photos in a few hours and let you know.

Also, #2 was supposed to say "Splay the legs" not "play the legs".


----------



## HungryPanda

That's what she said


----------



## Strat Rider

play music....splay legs


----------



## Bartig (Jun 4, 2018)

Wait, doesn’t KZ release anything this week?


----------



## zazaboy

any news about the new kz that gonna cost 80 bucks?


----------



## darmanastartes

Got my ES4's from Amazon the other day. Great bass impact and large soundstage, but not super resolving and slightly veiled to my ears. Debating whether to keep them.


----------



## neo_styles

RyanM said:


> Well I am at work right now and don't have either phones with me and I hesitate to do a direct comparison on memory (which is pretty fickle when it comes to audio). That said, what immediately struck me about the ES4 was that the vocals and strings have an authentic natural timber, and a good amount of thickness to them. Also, it's unusually neutral for a KZ earphone - at least one that's been released in the last 8-10 months or so. Whereas the ZSR sounds pretty hollow to me in the midrange, the ES4 is quite lively and musical. If KZ packaged this as their "Professional" line, and sold this earphone for $50-60, I wouldn't bat an eye at that. I mean, my immediate thought was that there must be some kind of mistake - it just sounded so resolving and well tuned. I did have fairly low expectations as I was pretty underwhelmed by the ES3 and ZSR prior. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the next ZS5, in terms of popularity.


Even though this is only my first pair of KZ, they're certainly not my first in-ears. I definitely want to echo your sentiments on the musicality of these. They're just pleasantly neutral and, aside from a little bleed from the midbass, surprisingly clean on the low-end.


----------



## audionab

will zsa and ed16 ever be available on gearbest?


----------



## Slater (Jun 4, 2018)

Mr. Browstone said:


> I think I'm going to try #2 first and then #4. Do you happend to have any picture of what both the connector and the pins look like after the mod? Thank you, buddy.



OK, as promised, here is the 2 things you can try.

*I would not do both. I would honestly try #1 first. 99 out of 100 times, it is all you need to get the job done.*

_1. Splay the legs of the male 2-pin cable a few degrees. Not much, but just enough so the plug stays in the socket._

What you do is use pliers and BARELY bend the pins away from one another. You don't need much; just a very tiny amount. Then, plug in the cable and you will see that it fits much more securely now. Like this:

​
_4. Use a needle to close the female pins in the 2-pin socket slightly. The female pins are split to allow flex, and you can use this flex to your advantage and make the pins smaller._

In the below photo you can see how the pins have a 'cut' down the middle. This allows them to flex and open up when you insert the cable pins. Well, you want to do the opposite - you want to use a small pair of pliers or the point of a needle, and push them closer slightly (making each hole smaller). This way, when you insert the cable, they will grip the pins tighter.

See how the 'cut' is wider on the right pin vs the left? The pin on the left (in this example) will fit tighter, and the pin on the right will fit much looser. I think your pins look like the one on the right. You want to tweak both of your pins so that they look like the pin on the left.

​
I hope this helps.


----------



## 424358

So after heavy use of my ES4. I prefer them over ZSR and ZSA.

I’m debating what to keep. 

Keep: ZS6, ES4, ZSA.

Sell: ZSR, ZS5, ZST

HD9 for gym. 

Anyone interested in ZSR, ZS5, and ZST? It would be dope if I can sell them all together.


----------



## 424358

darmanastartes said:


> Got my ES4's from Amazon the other day. Great bass impact and large soundstage, but not super resolving and slightly veiled to my ears. Debating whether to keep them.



What other KZ do you have? I recommend keep.


----------



## 1clearhead

I will be getting the *KZ ED16* by next weekend. I hope it lives up to its' name. 

Notice the *ZS7* spelled out on the housing unit. Can this really be the KZ's hidden gem? The *KZ ZS7*?






-Clear


----------



## CoiL

misterchao said:


> So after heavy use of my ES4. I prefer them over ZSR and ZSA.
> 
> I’m debating what to keep.
> 
> ...



Your ZS5 is v1 ? Locate in EU ?
Glad I didn`t jump on ZSA - ES4 is gettin a lot of positive feedback.


----------



## audionab

CoiL said:


> Your ZS5 is v1 ? Locate in EU ?
> Glad I didn`t jump on ZSA - ES4 is gettin a lot of positive feedback.


also es4 is available for 14$ on gearbest with coupon from phonograph


----------



## 424358

CoiL said:


> Your ZS5 is v1 ? Locate in EU ?
> Glad I didn`t jump on ZSA - ES4 is gettin a lot of positive feedback.



Nah V2 and NA.


----------



## CoiL

Gave up and ordered ES4 (Light Cyan / without mic). Like the looks and their shape is kinda similar to IT01 (which fits me great). ZST is kind of "on edge" with its shape (good for short listenings but longer sessions I get slight "pain").
Will share my thoughts about ES4 when I receive, especially against my current KZ fav - ZS5v1. ES4 should excel it with mids but curious about ES4 soundstage (ZS5v1 has HUGE one).


----------



## Aparker2005

I'm ready to hear more about these 16 drivers


----------



## darmanastartes

misterchao said:


> What other KZ do you have? I recommend keep.


Just the ATE atm. I had the ED9 too.


----------



## Slater

Aparker2005 said:


> I'm ready to hear more about these 16 drivers



More drivers = better sound!


----------



## Vestat

Slater said:


> More drivers = better sound!



YYeeahh.. I wish it was 2045 so we could all enjoy 120 drivers per side.. sooou sick.


----------



## audionab

Slater said:


> More drivers = better sound!


+1


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> More drivers = better sound!


r u serious? 

...when it comes to cheap chi-fi products like KZ - I doubt this is the case. More drivers, the more harder is to implement them correctly for coherent result.
All those KZ hybrids and I still like IT01 (single driver) more. Though, I haven`t heard ZS10 myself.


----------



## GamerGuppy (Jun 5, 2018)

Thanks @stryed and @mbwilson111 for the pictures of the IT01 together with some other KZ models! Also thank you Stryed for the comfort impressions. I even got some PM's of people praising the IT01 and sharing their impressions. 
Thank you all, you are what make this community great. I decided to pull the trigger on the IT01 and can't wait for them to get here.

I ordered them from PenonAudio, since they have a good reputation and the IT01 is difficult to obtain in Europe otherwise. I got a bit paranoid when I received a status update on my order with the tracking number.
When looking up the tracking number, it states as destination country the USA. Also there is a USA e-express link as to track the item once it arrives in the USA.
However, my order should be send to my adress in the Netherlands, as stated in the order details and confirmed by my paypal receipt. I send their support team a mail to ask if everything is allright.

I am keeping a close eye on this thread. Seems KZ has launched several great IEM's lately with their ZSA, ES4 and ED16. Maybe I will upgrade my IEM meant for running after all .


----------



## SciOC

CoiL said:


> r u serious?
> 
> ...when it comes to cheap chi-fi products like KZ - I doubt this is the case. More drivers, the more harder is to implement them correctly for coherent result.
> All those KZ hybrids and I still like IT01 (single driver) more. Though, I haven`t heard ZS10 myself.


I'm highly doubting he was serious (I say as I shave my face with a 15 blade razor).

Sarcasm needs its own font....

There are aspects of the zs10 I like over the it01.  Separation, soundstage and layering I find to be better on the zs10.  But overall the it01 is probably better and more quickly accessible earphone.  Not until you get to $175-200+ do you really start getting into territory where they do everything better than the kz's.  What the zs10 can do, staging wise, is mighty impressive for the price.


----------



## KainHighwind (Jun 5, 2018)

Just receive my E-MI C880 and I'm really impressed, the vocal is very clear and no piercing like ZS5v2 and ZS6, bass is clear and punchy and just enough, not muddy so I can enjoy artist's vocal, the shell is small and easier to wear than my ZS5v2 and ZS6 and ZST. The downside is build quality feels very cheap and garbage, and straight jack is easier to be damaged than L jack.

And I ordered my C880 from ALWUP store in aliexpress, they just shipped the phone and a paperbook, no replacable tips at all, I feel disappointed when open the package.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> r u serious



I think you guys know me by now 

Besides, I don’t think 400 BAs would even physically fit in your ear!


----------



## Karael

I've been following this thread for a while and got curious about the latest KZ ED16 so I decided to give it a try myself. However, the only stores that seem to have this product available atm are the ones at Aliexpress which have pretty bad reputation in here. So I'm kinda stuck in this dilemma for now since I meant to get them as a present to someone and I'm not sure if its worth waiting for some more reliable seller to get them on stock. I'd appreciate any advice!


----------



## Zerohour88

KainHighwind said:


> Just receive my E-MI C880 and I'm really impressed, the vocal is very clear and no piercing like ZS5v2 and ZS6, bass is clear and punchy and just enough, not muddy so I can enjoy artist's vocal, the shell is small and easier to wear than my ZS5v2 and ZS6 and ZST. The downside is build quality feels very cheap and garbage, and straight jack is easier to be damaged than L jack.
> 
> And I ordered my C880 from ALWUP store in aliexpress, they just shipped the phone and a paperbook, no replacable tips at all, I feel disappointed when open the package.



I've abused it for a few months, the cables are a bit iffy (already turned yellow-ish now), but so far so good. Removable cables would've been nice (and mitigate the so-so cable issue), but its super cheap, can't knock it for that. Thought about buying another as a spare, but there's so many things to try now that I'd rather just get some other IEM.


----------



## Dickymint

Karael said:


> I've been following this thread for a while and got curious about the latest KZ ED16 so I decided to give it a try myself. However, the only stores that seem to have this product available atm are the ones at Aliexpress which have pretty bad reputation in here. So I'm kinda stuck in this dilemma for now since I meant to get them as a present to someone and I'm not sure if its worth waiting for some more reliable seller to get them on stock. I'd appreciate any advice!


I have personally ordered loads of stuff through Aliexpress from various sellers and so far, I have never been disappointed. But this is just my personal opinion.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 5, 2018)

SciOC said:


> I'm highly doubting he was serious (I say as I shave my face with a 15 blade razor).
> Sarcasm needs its own font....
> 
> There are aspects of the zs10 I like over the it01.  Separation, soundstage and layering I find to be better on the zs10.



Yeah, I suspected it was sarcasm 

About IT01 - have You tried wide bore tips? And if You dare - remove metal+nylon grills.
Only KZ that can best only 1 thing about IT01 is ZS5v1 with soundstage width. Otherwise IT01 (especially modded) beats every KZ and other cheapos I`ve heard in every aspect, imho, with my gear.
Would like to try ZS10 about those things You said but it is too big for my ears and price makes me question. I went ES4 instead.


----------



## Karael (Jun 5, 2018)

Dickymint said:


> I have personally ordered loads of stuff through Aliexpress from various sellers and so far, I have never been disappointed. But this is just my personal opinion.



Me too, its just that the only sellers who have the KZ ED16 now are the ones who are banned at this forum. I was afraid they might sell counterfeit KZ products so I wanted a second opinion since I've seen some people in here have given those sellers a second chance. Thanks for the input!


----------



## Vestat

Slater said:


> Besides, I don’t think 400 BAs would even physically fit in your ear!



Never say never my friend..
Remember the not so long time ago when transistors were like this...


----------



## Slater (Jun 5, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Never say never my friend..
> Remember the not so long time ago when transistors were like this...



Yes, you have a point. However, assuming miniaturization makes this possible down the road, my question would be do we *need* 400 BAs? More ≠ better.


----------



## HungryPanda

The circuitry would be huge or not at all in some instances


----------



## Vestat

Slater said:


> Yes, you have a point. However, assuming miniaturization makes this possible down the road, my question would be do we *need* 400 BAs?



I'm still with you defending the one good dynamic driver against many budget noisemakers.


----------



## SciOC

CoiL said:


> Yeah, I suspected it was sarcasm
> 
> About IT01 - have You tried wide bore tips? And if You dare - remove metal+nylon grills.
> Only KZ that can best only 1 thing about IT01 is ZS5v1 with soundstage width. Otherwise IT01 (especially modded) beats every KZ and other cheapos I`ve heard in every aspect, imho, with my gear.
> Would like to try ZS10 about those things You said but it is too big for my ears and price makes me question. I went ES4 instead.


I've tried many different tips, and honestly staging is one area I don't feel the it01 excels (and yes, I have more than 400 hours on them).

I think the zs10 wins staging/layering/separation versus the it01, but the zs10 gets beat by the 170 dollar tfz king pro and easily beat by the 200 dollar brainwavz b400 in my collection.


----------



## rfsux (Jun 5, 2018)

I’m not an engineer, but have a technical question.
The ZS10 (DD+4BA) has only two capacitors, so I ponder that it only has a two-way crossover (one 20 Hz—n kHz section combined with one n kHz—40,000 kHz section).
The ES4 (DD+BA) has one capacitor. I can’t guess how one capacitor can separate one frequency range for the DD, then separate another range for the BA. Is timbre tuned inside the BA or with a capacitor?
Frustratingly, I cannot imagine the method that frequencies are separated with so few capacitors (technically capacitor and resistor combinations).
If three/five/eight drivers per side are to handle distinct ranges, then would there need to be three/five/eight capacitors per side?


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> I will be getting the *KZ ED16* by next weekend. I hope it lives up to its' name.
> 
> Notice the *ZS7* spelled out on the housing unit. Can this really be the KZ's hidden gem? The *KZ ZS7*?
> 
> ...



I am looking forward to your thoughts on the ED16.  I love mine.  To me, it is a gem. It is smaller than I thought it would be.  ...and better...so much better..


----------



## mbwilson111

SciOC said:


> Sarcasm needs its own font....



Yes it does.


----------



## vladstef

rfsux said:


> I’m not an engineer, but have a technical question.
> The ZS10 (DD+4BA) has only two capacitors, so I ponder that it only has a two-way crossover (one 20 Hz—n kHz section combined with one n kHz—40,000 kHz section).
> The ES4 (DD+BA) has one capacitor. I can’t guess how one capacitor can separate one frequency range for the DD, then separate another range for the BA. Is timbre tuned inside the BA or with a capacitor?
> Frustratingly, I cannot imagine the method that frequencies are separated with so few capacitors (technically capacitor and resistor combinations).
> If three/five/eight drivers per side are to handle distinct ranges, then would there need to be three/five/eight capacitors per side?



IEM crossovers are done differently compared speaker ones - space limitation + IEM drivers are always full range drivers (there really aren't woofers - tweeters, just drivers that are better at some frequencies while producing full range). This means that you don't really even need a crossover as 2 well chosen drivers will manage to work together, especially if they are the same. Obviously, well done crossover is always a good thing but you are limited to RC crossovers with smd components pretty much.

I think (don't know for sure, just going from what I've seen in IEMs) that ZS10 is probably using a 3 way crossover just looking at the board on the back - dynamic driver is full range and doesn't have a low pass before it, mid range BAs have a high pass with one capacitor and treble drivers have a smaller capacitor for even higher cut off frequency. Thus, it would go something like this:
- DD - full range, 10 - 20k+
- 2BAs with larger capacitor - upper mid range and treble, probably come into play somewhere around 2-3K
- 2BAs with small capacitor - treble - I suspect that they mostly contribute 5-6K and above.

Again, this is just a guess and how most IEM crossovers are done (not really crossovers in the end, just low pass filters for BAs).
The other option would be to have a low pass filter on the DD with one very large capacitor and a single capacitor for all 4 BAs that combined produce mid range and treble (highly doubt it, KZ has always used DDs to cover most of the mid range in pretty much every IEM)


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> I am looking forward to your thoughts on the ED16.  I love mine.  To me, it is a gem. It is smaller than I thought it would be.  ...and better...so much better..


I have the Ed16 on order.... I see you also have the KZ Es4 and the TRN V20 both of which I own. I know you don't do reviews and I respect that. I am just curious if the Ed16 sounds at all similar to the other two? No pressure. Just curious. Thanks.


----------



## rfsux

Your detailed explanation cleared up my confusion completely. I realized none of that myself. The space limitation and filters makes sense now.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 6, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> I have the Ed16 on order.... I see you also have the KZ Es4 and the TRN V20 both of which I own. I know you don't do reviews and I respect that. I am just curious if the Ed16 sounds at all similar to the other two? No pressure. Just curious. Thanks.



I do not have the ES4. I do have the TRN V20.

Here are the KZs that I own (copied from my profile):
KZ ATR
KZ ED9
KZ ED16 - black
KZ ZS6 - green
KZ ZS10 - red
KZ ZSR - translucent green
KZ ZST - carbon

I did listen to my  husband' ES4 for a few minutes a couple of weeks ago because it arrived as he was leaving for work.  Unfortunately I was unable to enjoy it as it was out of phase.  He has since fixed it but I have not felt like trying it again.  Too busy enjoying my music with my own gear.

I will listen to the V20 and the ED16 together one day next week but I can't promise that I will be able to answer your question to your satisfaction.

@MDH12AX7
Edited to say I confused the ES4 and the ZSA when I said the ES4 that had listened to was out of phase. It was the ZSA that was out of phase.  My husband received both recently...among other things...hard to keep track.  I don't think I have even listened to the ES4.  Do I need to?  I was under the impression that they were very bright?  How do you compare the ES4 and TRN V20?  Just a general impression.

Edited again... I see you already did compare them in the Hidden Gems thread


----------



## audionab

can anyone share their burn in playlist and sweeps

i don't have one and never did it before 

i just ordered kz es4 off gearbest so i wanted to ask which tips should i get for best soundstage. 
also i wanted to know how much does silver upgrade cable affect the sound quality


----------



## roxwindy

Been using the ZS3 for a while but apparently the stock cable isn't so good and I lost one side of the driver. Love the sound a lot but will the ZS5/6 be a good upgrade? Heard it's quite bright which hesitates me.

Better invest in the silver cables I feel it's definitely worth.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 6, 2018)

SciOC said:


> I've tried many different tips, and honestly staging is one area I don't feel the it01 excels (and yes, I have more than 400 hours on them).
> *I think the zs10 wins staging/layering/separation versus the it01*, but the zs10 gets beat by the 170 dollar tfz king pro and easily beat by the 200 dollar brainwavz b400 in my collection.


That`s pretty bold opinion. Makes me think I`ve "gone wrong" with IT01 and should have got ZS10. But... reading other impressions, seems that ppl still find IT01 superior over KZ top offerings (ZS10 also) and You seem to be in minority (not that it matters). All I can say from my part about IT01 is that it could have tad wider soundstage but layering, separation and transparency is top notch imho.
Also I`ve read impressions where IT01 is very closely compared to King Pro, though latter seems tad superior. But all depends on source gear, amping, personal hearing, tips etc. too.
Wish I could compare ZS10 vs. IT01. But likely it wont happen as I got ES4 and dont plan to spend over 15$ anymore for chi-fi occasionally.


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2018)

audionab said:


> can anyone share their burn in playlist and sweeps
> 
> i don't have one and never did it before



There's a free iOS app called "1More Assistant". It burns in. I use an old unused iPad just for that purpose.

I do not know if there is an Android version of the app; you'd have to check if you require Android.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Slater

roxwindy said:


> Been using the ZS3 for a while but apparently the stock cable isn't so good and I lost one side of the driver. Love the sound a lot but will the ZS5/6 be a good upgrade? Heard it's quite bright which hesitates me.
> 
> Better invest in the silver cables I feel it's definitely worth.



It may not be your cable that's the problem. There was a batch of ZS3 that had defective drivers, and usually 1 side would go out.

I have been tracking the defective batch since I 1st discovered it. Details are here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/201...on-5-off-over-30.832367/page-75#post-13961425
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/201...on-5-off-over-30.832367/page-83#post-13981998


----------



## roxwindy

Slater said:


> It may not be your cable that's the problem. There was a batch of ZS3 that had defective drivers, and usually 1 side would go out.
> 
> I have been tracking the defective batch since I 1st discovered it. Details are here:
> 
> ...



Damn that just sucks, I don't think there's anything I can do about this. I'm unsure to buy another ZS3 or try something else. At least as far as I know I prefer the ZS3 over the ZST as well.


----------



## Slater

roxwindy said:


> Damn that just sucks, I don't think there's anything I can do about this. I'm unsure to buy another ZS3 or try something else. At least as far as I know I prefer the ZS3 over the ZST as well.



Well, the issue was resolved a few months ago, so buy another pair if you prefer them.

Although I guess it is possible that some dealers have old/defective stock. So just buy them from a reputable dealer, and make sure to test them thoroughly after you receive them. That way, you can have any problems taken care of right away.


----------



## MDH12AX7

audionab said:


> can anyone share their burn in playlist and sweeps
> 
> i don't have one and never did it before
> 
> ...


I just played normal music at listening level for a couple days for burn-in. The highs did seem to open up a bit after burned in. I tried a silver cable briefly and noticed no sonic changes. Switched back to the stock cable. Wide bore tips work best for me. KZ or Tennmak whirlwinds or any other wide bore tip you get a good fit with. I have a 2nd pair ( blue this time) coming in today. It will be interesting to see if sounds different ootb compared to the burned in pair or if it was just brain burn in. Hope this helps.


----------



## kiler

So did anyone have an issue with the stock tips of the ZS5 falling out? It happen more than once to have a tip stuck in my ear after using them, so I'd like to know about alternatives that don't impact the sound but stay better on the housing.


----------



## MDH12AX7

kiler said:


> So did anyone have an issue with the stock tips of the ZS5 falling out? It happen more than once to have a tip stuck in my ear after using them, so I'd like to know about alternatives that don't impact the sound but stay better on the housing.


Slater came up with a great fix for this. Spray a bit of hairspray into the can's lid. Dip a qtip in the hairspray and apply it on the nozzle with no tip. Let it get tacky before you install the tip on the nozzle. Hope that helps.


----------



## kiler

MDH12AX7 said:


> Slater came up with a great fix for this. Spray a bit of hairspray into the can's lid. Dip a qtip in the hairspray and apply it on the nozzle with no tip. Let it get tacky before you install the tip on the nozzle. Hope that helps.



Thanks man I'm going to try this out rn  Hopefully it fixes it


----------



## SciOC

CoiL said:


> That`s pretty bold opinion. Makes me think I`ve "gone wrong" with IT01 and should have got ZS10. But... reading other impressions, seems that ppl still find IT01 superior over KZ top offerings (ZS10 also) and You seem to be in minority (not that it matters). All I can say from my part about IT01 is that it could have tad wider soundstage but layering, separation and transparency is top notch imho.
> Wish I could compare ZS10 vs. IT01. But likely it wont happen as I got ES4 and dont plan to spend over 15$ anymore for chi-fi occasionally.


 honestly that's the only area the zs10 wins in.  All the rest go to the it01.


CoiL said:


> That`s pretty bold opinion. Makes me think I`ve "gone wrong" with IT01 and should have got ZS10. But... reading other impressions, seems that ppl still find IT01 superior over KZ top offerings (ZS10 also) and You seem to be in minority (not that it matters). All I can say from my part about IT01 is that it could have tad wider soundstage but layering, separation and transparency is top notch imho.
> Also I`ve read impressions where IT01 is very closely compared to King Pro, though latter seems tad superior. But all depends on source gear, amping, personal hearing, tips etc. too.
> Wish I could compare ZS10 vs. IT01. But likely it wont happen as I got ES4 and dont plan to spend over 15$ anymore for chi-fi occasionally.



I don't think my opinion is far outside the mainstream if at all.  That's literally the one area the zs10 is better than the it01 in, and I feel in general is where the it01 is a little bit average.  

Overall, the it01 is a better pair of IEMs.

Keep in mind I'm also comparing the zs10 with a balanced cable versus the it01 balanced as well, so that in itself may open up the staging a bit. If you're willing to put a lot of time and EQ testing into the zs10 they're very good, but are a little rough around the edges to start IMO.  You can order the it01, open them and put them directly in your ears and they sound very good to start.


----------



## audionab

can someone send a link to kz whirlwind tips deal
i see them on aliexpress for 1.2$ without shipping for 3 pairs(L M S) which i think is pretty high


----------



## Vestat

audionab said:


> i see them on aliexpress for 1.2$ without shipping for 3 pairs(L M S) which i think is pretty high


come on man.. it's one buck! even if you find half priced, it's still half dollar less. is it really worth thinking about?


----------



## Slater

audionab said:


> can someone send a link to kz whirlwind tips deal
> i see them on aliexpress for 1.2$ without shipping for 3 pairs(L M S) which i think is pretty high



The Tennmak version is 3xs better. The KZ ones fall apart too easily.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> The Tennmak version is 3xs better. The KZ ones fall apart too easily.



We got a good deal on those Tennmak ones when you posted the link.  I can't find the link now.  Do you have it handy? We asked for them to all be medium and all in black... they did that.  Black is really a grey though.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> The Tennmak version is 3xs better. The KZ ones fall apart too easily.


+1  I like the Tennmak as well.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 6, 2018)

here is the  link for the Tennmak Whirlwinds... just message the seller and say if you want all one size or color
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TEN...339.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4daYNkWx

I like them on some iems but I find I use the Starlines more.  Also, I often am happy with whatever came with the iem.  My IT01 has the  tip on it that it came with.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Choo Choo


----------



## neo_styles

HerrXRDS said:


> Choo Choo


It never ends. Never. Ends.


----------



## mbwilson111

Not tempted at all.  I am happy with this:  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Y-HIFI-Monitor-DJ-Customized/32817217678.html

I do wonder if the KZ will cost less and if it will be as good.  I am using  a different cable than the one they offer.  You can order just the iems without a cable.


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> You can order just the iems without a cable.


Are you referring to the hotfi or KZ? Either way, if that's the case, it's a really smart move.


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> Are you referring to the hotfi or KZ? Either way, if that's the case, it's a really smart move.



The hotfi.  I have no idea if that will be the case with the KZ... it should be.. like you said, it would be a smart move.

BTW, I am not suggesting that anyone run out and buy the hotfi on impulse.   I love mine but it is a lot of money.  My husband got it for me as a surprise gift because he  knows I like purple   I have the purple one.  This is the cable I am using:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OKC...stal-Plated-Copper-for-Shure/32830043484.html


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> The hotfi.  I have no idea if that will be the case with the KZ... it should be.. like you said, it would be a smart move.
> 
> BTW, I am not suggesting that anyone run out and buy the hotfi on impulse.   I love mine but it is a lot of money.  My husband got it for me as a surprise gift because he  knows I like purple   I have the purple one.  This is the cable I am using:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OKC...stal-Plated-Copper-for-Shure/32830043484.html


If you see them more favorably than the KZ, staying under $100 isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'll also attach the MMCX cable I got to replace both my Shure SE215 and Monoprice M300 cables. Super lightweight, but L and R aren't marked (simple fix: I just used a L/R test track *shrug*).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-MMCX-Ca...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> If you see them more favorably than the KZ, staying under $100 isn't necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> I'll also attach the MMCX cable I got to replace both my Shure SE215 and Monoprice M300 cables. Super lightweight, but L and R aren't marked (simple fix: I just used a L/R test track *shrug*).
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-MMCX-Cable-3-5MM-Upgraded-Silver-Plated-Earphone-Upgrade-Cable-For-Shure-LZ/142580163514?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Yes, there are many choices for MMCX cables.  I am guessing that KZ will continue the 2 pin system.  I know many people think it is more robust.

Actually in the photo that was posted it is a 2 pin cable.


----------



## scottySK

Just wanted to confirm that the silver cable provided by KZ does NOT fit the ZSA. The 2 pin socket on this particular iem is the same as any other KZ offering, however the issue lies in the rectangle recession space that surrounds the socket. It is much thinner on the ZSA and so other KZ cables that have a thicker plastic border around the 2 pins cannot fit. I am thinking of sanding that plastic border down on the silver cable so it can be used on the ZSA, despite making it a looser fit on my other iems (this is my second KZ silver cable so bo real loss there).

I can post pictures later if anyone needs them

Edit: spelling


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> Choo Choo



I wonder what the purpose of the big open grille is, when BAs are sealed?


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2018)

scottySK said:


> Just wanted to confirm that the silver cable provided by KZ does NOT fit the ZSA. The 2 pin socket on this particular iem is the same as any other KZ offering, however the issue lies in the rectangle recession space that surrounds the socket. It is much thinner on the ZSA and so other KZ cables that have a thicker plastic border around the 2 pins cannot fit. I am thinking of sanding that plastic border down on the silver cable so it can be used on the ZSA, despite making it a looser fit on my other iems (this is my second KZ silver cable so bo real loss there).
> 
> I can post pictures later if anyone needs them
> 
> Edit: spelling



Which version doesn't fit? KZ makes 2 - the ZST style, which is much chunkier, and the ZS3 style, which is extremely thin and slender. KZ sells all of their silver/upgrade cables in both plug versions.

There are many KZ (and TRN, etc) IEMs where the ZST style doesn't fit, but the thinner ZS3 fits perfectly fine.


----------



## CoiL

SciOC said:


> honestly that's the only area the zs10 wins in.  All the rest go to the it01.
> I don't think my opinion is far outside the mainstream if at all.  That's literally the one area the zs10 is better than the it01 in, and I feel in general is where the it01 is a little bit average.
> Overall, the it01 is a better pair of IEMs.
> Keep in mind I'm also comparing the zs10 with a balanced cable versus the it01 balanced as well, so that in itself may open up the staging a bit. If you're willing to put a lot of time and EQ testing into the zs10 they're very good, but are a little rough around the edges to start IMO.  You can order the it01, open them and put them directly in your ears and they sound very good to start.


So, You are:
1) using balanced cables to compare them.
but...
2) what source gear are You comparing with?
3) what amping You use?
4) what tips do You use and what size?
5) what music You mainly use to compare them?

I am:
1) using single ended cable with neutrik hq 90`jack (cable measures 0.2Ohm for R/L/G)
2) using HW & FW modified DX50 @ FLAC-only, <0.5 Ohm output impedance
3) using HW modified DX50 amping @ high gain ( 3.1V / 80mA juice per channel)
4) using Auvio S size wide bore tips
5) using mainly progressive rock with great masterings like Steven Wilson, Porcupine tree, Gazpacho, TOOL; Seven Impale, Dream Theater, The Mars Volta etc.

IT01 has best low-mids I`ve heard in IEM so far (even comparable with Asura  2.0 earbud, which has very good mids) with no bleed between mid-bass/bass/low-mids.


----------



## neo_styles

CoiL said:


> using mainly progressive rock with great masterings like Steven Wilson, Porcupine tree, Gazpacho, TOOL; Seven Impale, Dream Theater, The Mars Volta etc.


I like you. DT has to be one of my all-time favorites. Watching them perform DSOTM was something out of this world.


----------



## Bartig

mbwilson111 said:


> I am looking forward to your thoughts on the ED16.  I love mine.  To me, it is a gem. It is smaller than I thought it would be.  ...and better...so much better..


Better than WHAT dear Wilson, better than WHAT? 



mbwilson111 said:


> I do not have the ES4. I do have the TRN V20.
> 
> Here are the KZs that I own (copied from my profile):
> KZ ATR
> ...


The ES4 isn’t bright at all. In fact, it’s like the ZSR with a tighter bass and less highs.

And in fact: the ES4 sounds very similar to the KZ ZSA I’ve just gotten. I will thoroughly compare them from now on.

Though I can already say I love the metallic finish and the comfort of the ZSA. They’re really small. Snug in your ear. I haven’t gotten a KZ before that was this comfy right away.


----------



## TheVortex

mbwilson111 said:


> Not tempted at all.  I am happy with this:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...Y-HIFI-Monitor-DJ-Customized/32817217678.html
> 
> I do wonder if the KZ will cost less and if it will be as good.  I am using  a different cable than the one they offer.  You can order just the iems without a cable.



What do you think of this? I want to purchase something a bit more high than the KZ's but don't want to spend a fortune.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> What do you think of this? I want to purchase something a bit more high than the KZ's but don't want to spend a fortune.



What kind of sound are you looking for? The Tin Audio T2 is killer for the price.


----------



## DrevnyKocur

What about **** 6in1? If i look for sub bass and overall fun signature (Tin audio or those ****?). I'm looking for review of this earphones but there is no such thing in internet. Audiobudget reviewed them but i'm not totally convinced by his reviews.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> What kind of sound are you looking for? The Tin Audio T2 is killer for the price.



I already own the Tin Audio T2 and I am quite happy with it. I just want a kick ass multi ba unit that doesn't cost the earth to buy. I also like the behind the ear cable fitment which the T2 hasn't got.


----------



## TheVortex

DrevnyKocur said:


> What about **** 6in1? If i look for sub bass and overall fun signature (Tin audio or those ****?). I'm looking for review of this earphones but there is no such thing in internet. Audiobudget reviewed them but i'm not totally convinced by his reviews.



I own those as well and they are ok but they need to be amped to appreciate them.


----------



## mbwilson111

Bartig said:


> Better than WHAT dear Wilson, better than WHAT?



  Better than I expected.



Bartig said:


> The ES4 isn’t bright at all. In fact, it’s like the ZSR with a tighter bass and less highs.



Might  have to get an ES4 in green....  but do I NEED it?



TheVortex said:


> What do you think of this? I want to purchase something a bit more high than the KZ's but don't want to spend a fortune.



I love the hotfi but can't go into detail at this time because I have been listening to too  many other things this week... a couple of headphones, a couple of buds, a couple of new iems...  I need to quit.


----------



## HungryPanda

@TheVortex NiceHck HK6. Sorted


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> I already own the Tin Audio T2 and I am quite happy with it. I just want a kick ass multi ba unit that doesn't cost the earth to buy. I also like the behind the ear cable fitment which the T2 hasn't got.



While they’re not multi-BA, here’s 2 options for you:

1. @Otto Motor raves about the Etymotic HF5. I have never personally heard it, so you could PM him for more details.

2. I also sorely regret getting rid of my mint condition Shure E4c. They were awesome with silicone tips. You can probably pick up a used pair dirt cheap, as it’s quite a few years old now.

For multi-BA, I have the Magaosi K5, which is amazing 5xBA (but might be more than your budget). Its 3xBA little brother (Magaosi X3) is supposed to be awesome as well.

The impression thread has blown up with people raving about the NiceHck HK6. It’s a bit pricey though.


----------



## DrevnyKocur

TheVortex said:


> I own those as well and they are ok but they need to be amped to appreciate them.



I mostly use my earphones with xDuoo XQ-23, it powers some large over ear headphones so those earphones shouldn't be a problem. So duel between Tin Audio T2 vs **** 6in1, i need good bass (with depth) and not recessed (they can be slightly) mids without a lot of sybilance.


----------



## Zerohour88

HungryPanda said:


> @TheVortex NiceHck HK6. Sorted



I would've thought you'd recommend the Hisenior B5+. 100 bux for a supposedly Knowles 5BA IEM is quite nice. Its quite a nice price progression from the Hisenior B5+ ($100), Toneking TK2 ($150) and NiceHCK HK6($200). There's also the Hifiboy OSV3 ($160) that's been reviewed quite highly.

My experience with these smaller batches DIY stuff have been very good in terms of price-performance ratio, if not in QC. Wonder if the 10BA KZ can soon be added to the list of consideration. A competently tuned multi-BA can sound amazingly natural even without the presence of a DD.


----------



## HungryPanda

I like them all they are all slightly different but I like each and every one for their qualities


----------



## HungryPanda

Exciting HK6, jazz and folk love Hisenior B5+, Toneking just for the fanboy love


----------



## SciOC

CoiL said:


> So, You are:
> 1) using balanced cables to compare them.
> but...
> 2) what source gear are You comparing with?
> ...


I generally use my hiby r6 balanced without iematch on these two pairs, but also listened SE to both on my cayin n3, sometimes paired with the fiio a5.  Most of my files are flac or 320kbps mp3, and the quality of recording varies.  Good staging is often captured better by live recordings that technically aren't recorded well, I also listen to some binaural stuff just for fun.  I have a soundstage playlist I use, but I wiped it out by accident and am building a new one (kept separate from the binaural stuff).  It's a mix of genres but prog rock, Dave Matthews, mtv unplugged albums are good examples, and some quasi jazz stuff like gogo penguin or the Mercury program predominate that list...

In general I like using the large starlines with the kz zs10 and my new bee foams with the it01 but also use the same new bees on the zs10 frequently too.

Am I the only one who makes playlists like "male vocals", "soundstage", "bass extension", "sparkle", "dynamic range" instead of normal people playlists, or does everyone here organise their music like a weirdo too?


----------



## mbwilson111

SciOC said:


> Am I the only one who makes playlists like "male vocals", "soundstage", "bass extension", "sparkle", "dynamic range" instead of normal people playlists, or does everyone here organise their music like a weirdo too?



Maybe I am the weirdo.  I only listen to full albums.


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> 100 bux for a supposedly Knowles 5BA IEM is quite nice.



No way all (10) BAs are Knowles for that price. Often times on these ChiFi IEMs, they have 1 Knowles (or a dual Knowles like the bass BA), and other manufacturers for the other drivers.



Zerohour88 said:


> A competently tuned multi-BA can sound amazingly natural even without the presence of a DD.



That’s the million dollar question. Unfortunately, the list of ChiFi companies that can consistently pull that off isn’t that large.


----------



## scottySK

I only have access to the KZ silver upgrade cable and the es3 stock cable. Both are too thick to fit


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2018)

scottySK said:


> I only have access to the KZ silver upgrade cable and the es3 stock cable. Both are too thick to fit



But the KZ silver upgrade cable is offered in 2 different versions of ends.

Which one of these does your 2-pin end look like (left or right)?


----------



## scottySK (Jun 6, 2018)

Slater said:


> But the KZ silver upgrade cable is offered in 2 different versions of ends.
> 
> Which one of these does your look like?



The jack is L shaped and the 2 pin connectors are not colour coded for left and right, they are just plain. The ends are also angled, like the one on the left of your image


----------



## Bartig

SciOC said:


> I generally use my hiby r6 balanced without iematch on these two pairs, but also listened SE to both on my cayin n3, sometimes paired with the fiio a5.  Most of my files are flac or 320kbps mp3, and the quality of recording varies.  Good staging is often captured better by live recordings that technically aren't recorded well, I also listen to some binaural stuff just for fun.  I have a soundstage playlist I use, but I wiped it out by accident and am building a new one (kept separate from the binaural stuff).  It's a mix of genres but prog rock, Dave Matthews, mtv unplugged albums are good examples, and some quasi jazz stuff like gogo penguin or the Mercury program predominate that list...
> 
> In general I like using the large starlines with the kz zs10 and my new bee foams with the it01 but also use the same new bees on the zs10 frequently too.
> 
> Am I the only one who makes playlists like "male vocals", "soundstage", "bass extension", "sparkle", "dynamic range" instead of normal people playlists, or does everyone here organise their music like a weirdo too?


In Spotify? If so: love to receive the links to the soundstage and extension lists.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 6, 2018)

Slater said:


> I wonder what the purpose of the big open grille is, when BAs are sealed?



They mostly don't need but...
Bunch of BAs have vents. Knowles HODVTEC has 4 vents, there are a lot of ED drivers with vents, CI drivers have large vents on the front always... even TWFK has a vent on one of the BAs.

Now, do they actually need the air to move freely from the shells to the outside or is the additional air in the shells enough, that is a complicated question for manufacturer to determine for the given shells/BAs used/target frequency response.
It's easy to bash KZ for fake design elements like screws on ZS6 but I'd wait for this all BA IEM to come out and then see. I can only assume that there are more vents than there need to be.


----------



## oneula

just ordered the ES4 and ZSA  if they are as good as everyone claims I'll get rid of my ATR, ZST, ZS3(black), ZSR(green) znd ZS10(blue) and just keep those two.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> No way all (10) BAs are Knowles for that price. Often times on these ChiFi IEMs, they have 1 Knowles (or a dual Knowles like the bass BA), and other manufacturers for the other drivers.
> 
> That’s the million dollar question. Unfortunately, the list of ChiFi companies that can consistently pull that off isn’t that large.



Maybe I should've put "allegedly", but that sounds a bit vilifying.

if a small workshop can tune a 100 bux 5BA IEM to match the sound sig of the SE846, I'm hope they can at least achieve "competent" tuning. Of course, "good for the price" doesn't cut it now, it seems. Its always gotta be "giant-killers".


----------



## B9Scrambler

Yup. I approve.


----------



## neo_styles

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup. I approve.


ZSA?


----------



## scottySK

neo_styles said:


> ZSA?


Yes, they are beautifully made


----------



## B9Scrambler

neo_styles said:


> ZSA?



Yup.



scottySK said:


> Yes, they are beautifully made



Yes, they certainly are.


----------



## neo_styles

scottySK said:


> Yes, they are beautifully made


Looking forward to your analysis on sound quality since I'm looking for a complimentary pair to the ES4. ZS6 has been on my radar, but if they've managed to hash out some of the issues between generations, I'd like to go that route instead.


----------



## Bartig (Jun 6, 2018)

Impressions on the ZSA so far:

+ Very comfy because they’re so tiny
+ Beautifully built
+ Typical KZ sound signature with deep bass and emphasized upper mids
- No need to buy when you have the ES4; they sound almost exactly the same. Apart from:
- Almost no soundstage


----------



## neo_styles

Bartig said:


> - No need to buy when you have the ES4; they sound almost exactly the same. Apart from:
> - Almost no soundstage


This is exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks!


----------



## Slater

vladstef said:


> They mostly don't need but...
> Bunch of BAs have vents. Knowles HODVTEC has 4 vents, there are a lot of ED drivers with vents, CI drivers have large vents on the front always... even TWFK has a vent on one of the BAs.
> 
> Now, do they actually need the air to move freely from the shells to the outside or is the additional air in the shells enough, that is a complicated question for manufacturer to determine for the given shells/BAs used/target frequency response.
> It's easy to bash KZ for fake design elements like screws on ZS6 but I'd wait for this all BA IEM to come out and then see. I can only assume that there are more vents than there need to be.



Yeah, good point.

We’ll just have to wait and see.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 7, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Impressions on the ZSA so far:
> 
> + Very comfy because they’re so tiny
> + Beautifully built
> ...



In the few hours I've listened to mine, my thoughts on the above are;

+ _Very comfy because they’re so tiny_ - Definitely. Every time I look at them I'm shocked at just how small they are. I keep expecting something ZS5/6 in size but it's way smaller.
+ _Beautifully built _- Without a doubt.
+ _Typical KZ sound signature with deep bass and emphasized upper mids_ - Not quite. They seem tuned like older KZs like the ED3 Perfection, though more refined. Compared to the ZS6 it seems to focus on upper instead of lower treble. Bit thinner and more airy with a more natural reproduction of cymbals. Also slightly tighter and more controlled, at least compared to my ZS6 which is a slightly splashy next to the ZSA. Bass digs deep, but is only lightly elevated and doesn't have a lot of presence in sub regions. My usual test track for this (Kavinski's 'Solli') shows this off pretty well. Also noticeable on Big Boi's 'Kill Jill ft. Killer Mike & Jeezy', but to a lesser extent. I'd say they're less bassy than the ZS6, ZSR and ZS10. I suspect less bassy than the ZST too, but I haven't A/B'd them yet. Mids also seem quite balanced, though a bit thin. They're not recessed but not emphasized either. Smartly placed imo since the low end is reasonably reserved and doesn't bleed over at all. Stringed instruments and the sax like those through Supertramp's 'Crime of the Century' sound amazing.
- _No need to buy when you have the ES4_;_ they sound almost exactly the same_. - No comment. Don't have the ES4 and not particularly interested. That said, if they really are that close I'd sell the ES4 (well, I wouldn't because I collect KZs, but others could) and get the ZSA for the sexy shells, haha.
- _Almost no soundstage _- Naaaaaaaa. Great sound stage, at least as good as the ZS6 but not as impressive as the ZSR. Imaging is impressive too. The smoothness in the way it sweeps effects from channel to channel is fantastic for a cheapo. They can do intimate like the closing moments of Culprate's 'Undefined' and more open areas, like the portrayal of the train station in the opening of Supetramp's 'Rudy' quite well.

So far my thoughts are that it's continued the trend of the ZSR and ZS10 in refining the output of the BAs. These are quite smooth yet detailed. Timbre accuracy is also quite good, like the ZS10. They lack the flamboyancy of the ZSR though. That model has a very uplifting quality to it. It's an event. ZSA comes across more analytic than  musical, like the ZS6. Either way, these new models have me pumped for the all BA model. Curious to see how that'll handle low end though since they've only used mid and treble BAs up to this point.

Edit: Regarding the vents on the all-BA model, maybe they're just aesthetic so as to keep a uniform design theme to go along with the ZS6 and ZSA.


----------



## SciOC

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe I am the weirdo.  I only listen to full albums.


Nah, that's the other way I listen generally, gotta test out new music somehow...
 I only have a couple of playlists that are mixes of my favorite songs, and one inexplicable playlist I keep of a mix of Sarah McLachlan and rage against the machine.  I did that as a joke about 15 years ago and really grew to like it....  

And @Bartig , unfortunately I keep all my music locally and have no experience streaming, which is fine as my company has locked that down now, along with all USB devices.... once in a while I'll hear a random song that has really good staging and add it, most of it is pretty predictable, but then there are weird random songs like "face to face" by daft punk that are just out of left field.  

Anyway,  when are we going to get that 16 ba pair or at least some more info?


----------



## scottySK

neo_styles said:


> Looking forward to your analysis on sound quality since I'm looking for a complimentary pair to the ES4. ZS6 has been on my radar, but if they've managed to hash out some of the issues between generations, I'd like to go that route instead.



I'm no expert when it comes to iems, and I only could compare it with the ZS10 and ES3, as I am yet to own a ZS6 - although I am tempted.. 
I would have A/B'd them tonight for you against the ZS10 but from my first impressions I have to agree with the recent post from B9Scrambler - nothing he has mentioned there goes against my first thoughts


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 6, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> In the few hours I've listened to mine, my thoughts on the above are;
> 
> + _Very comfy because they’re so tiny_ - Definitely. Every time I look at them I've shocked at just how small they are. I keep expecting something ZS5/6 in size but it's way smaller.
> + _Beautifully built _- Without a doubt.
> ...



B9, the ZSA appears to be right up my alley. A beautifully built CNC shell with a more refined  ED3 "Perfection" sound signature" at $21+/- is a steal. Personally, my "Perfection" sound signature and build is worth more than $20 to my ears so I'm looking forward to improvements across the board at the ZSA's price-point.

That pic shows off it's satin-like finish as well.

Thanks for the impressions.


----------



## Bartig (Jun 7, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> In the few hours I've listened to mine, my thoughts on the above are;
> 
> + _Very comfy because they’re so tiny_ - Definitely. Every time I look at them I've shocked at just how small they are. I keep expecting something ZS5/6 in size but it's way smaller.
> + _Beautifully built _- Without a doubt.
> ...


Whoah, solid impressions.

About the soundstage: I will try more than the tips of KZ and my current favorite, but compared to the ES4, ZS10 and ZSR I miss the lovely airiness on this one. Whereas drums on the ES4 can be all around you, even songs that excel in soundstage sound a bit (but not worthlessly - just in comparison!) closed in on the ZSA.

There will be just one IEM I’ll listen to today for further testing. That’s for sure.


----------



## CoiL

Glad I got ES4 instead ZSA. Personally don`t care much about looks - fit and sound are important! And I can always give those cheapos some wood-overhauling ;P


----------



## nxnje

Yo guys
My credit card is going to expire in july, and i'm actually thinkin about what can i buy in order to use the last €€ i got on it.
I have like 20 euros there that i saved to buy some audio stuff but i'm really confused.

I saw zsa and es4 came out while my choice would have been zsr, even if i think it will be so painful to my ears as i have small years.

I have at the moment a pair of memt x5 which i love with foam tips, but i wanna do a little step up.

I listen to edm melodic tracks and raw tracks such as future bass, bass house, dubstep, progressive house, future house, trap and chill trap.
So it's needed a good bass which can go pretty low for the great 808 extension, good mids for clear synths and voices and good treble for claps, hats and so on.

What would you tip me? 
Zsa? Es4? Zsr (even if big)?
Can u tell the differences between these? Which of them can satisfy a basshead?

Ps: i can't get comfy with silicon tips, i always find out a garbage vacuum feeling like the common driver flex problem and even opening my mouth while putting in my headphones doesn't help..


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> B9, the ZSA appears to be right up my alley. A beautifully built CNC shell with a more refined  ED3 "Perfection" sound signature" at $21+/- is a steal. Personally, my "Perfection" sound signature and build is worth more than $20 to my ears so I'm looking forward to improvements across the board at the ZSA's price-point.
> 
> That pic shows off it's satin-like finish as well.
> 
> Thanks for the impressions.



Cheers. Note that the finish isn't as pronounced as on that pic. Was originally posted to my Instagram and I threw a filter on. It's slightly exaggerated.


----------



## KarmaPhala (Jun 7, 2018)

Slater said:


> No way all (10) BAs are Knowles for that price. Often times on these ChiFi IEMs, they have 1 Knowles (or a dual Knowles like the bass BA), and other manufacturers for the other drivers.



Try search on Ali, hisenior b5+, 10 Knowles ba for $99, scroll down for item description, knowles 30265, 31116 and 29689


----------



## scottySK

After a bit of a listening session between the ZSA and ZS10, it's clear that (for me at least) the ZS10 is far superior. Wider soundstage and better separation/layering. ZSA is slightly brighter though and I do enjoy the sparkle they have on symbals without being sibilant. Seems like the ZSA is a more refined ES3, which I guess fits with the comments about it sounding similar to ES4.

The ZSA fits my ears much better though and the build quality is nice. ZS10 requires me to use foam tips backwards to compensate for the short nozzel and size of the iem(they kind of stick out a bit). This may also tame the treble even further, but to me this seems to bring the mids more forward sort of. Detail is still there in the treble just not as V shaped as the ZSA

Price wise I got the ZS10 for $40AUD and the ZSA for about $20, so if cash is tight and/or you have small ears (or just love the metal housing) grab the ZSA, but at double the price the ZS10 is still my preferred choice. I just wish it didn't take me 30 seconds of ear manipulation to get a good seal with them every time I pop them in!


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> I wonder what the purpose of the big open grille is, when BAs are sealed?


+1 ...Really seems odd.


----------



## Dickymint

vladstef said:


> They mostly don't need but...
> Bunch of BAs have vents. Knowles HODVTEC has 4 vents, there are a lot of ED drivers with vents, CI drivers have large vents on the front always... even TWFK has a vent on one of the BAs.
> 
> Now, do they actually need the air to move freely from the shells to the outside or is the additional air in the shells enough, that is a complicated question for manufacturer to determine for the given shells/BAs used/target frequency response.
> It's easy to bash KZ for fake design elements like screws on ZS6 but I'd wait for this all BA IEM to come out and then see. I can only assume that there are more vents than there need to be.


Maybe I am wrong but I thought there was two options on the IEM's, one is a closed back design and the other an open back? I could be wrong but I thought I seen that further back in the thread.


----------



## loomisjohnson

i need another kz like a case of hives, but if you were to choose between the ed16, zsa and es4, which would it be?


----------



## Dickymint

From a purely personal point of view, I prefer the ZS10, it has more layering, each instrument has a depth and height to it's positioning, there is more emotion when fed from a really good source. The ZSA is good and if you fit the foam tips and get a good seal, they are bass cannons but they tend to overwhelm the midrange when used like this. I find it difficult to explain what I mean about the ZS10, it plays emotion, the bass is good, even great but not massive and over powering, the midrange is lightly recessed but having run them for some hours now, that is improving as well and the treble is just spot on for me. For the money, they are brilliant! Of course there are better devices but at what price... And as always, each person  has their own opinions based upon their own natural programming, which is never wrong .


----------



## Lorspeaker

ZS10 is my fav .. vs ZS6..KST..ZS3 ( i had a few others which i have given away)
First 2days, the ZS10 sounded diffused.. kinda letdown...needed some burn in. 
experimented with diff types of buds, finally settled on M sized buds that came with the package.

Staging/Imaging on the ZS10 is superior to all the other KZs,
the ZS6 cane close, but the ZS10 fills in more "musical pixels" deep into the soundstage,
an inexpensive street-combo : samsungfone+ spotify + ZS10 to enjoy some classical/expansive music at Macdonalds.
( Gladiators..Last Samurai...Star Wars.. Hans ZImmer  etc)

At home, via the Audiogd amp...ZS10 is v capable..v clear..nothing sloppy..excellent vocals...tight bass..soaring highs.
hard to fault for less than usd$40 



above is just a short post to cast a vote for the ZS10..
dun ask me for more specifics... havnt been posting for a season


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 7, 2018)

Well, thanks to Massdrop, I'll now have a pair of green ZS6 coming in soon. Not much of a savings ($39 landed), but at least I know where it's coming from.


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> i need another kz like a case of hives, but if you were to choose between the ed16, zsa and es4, which would it be?



I have yet to hear an ES4 and am tempted to get the green one but first I should listen to my husbands black one. 

I did try the ZSA but it was out of phase at the time when I listened... but I will say that I am in the minority it seems in not liking the form factor.  If I am going to go to the trouble of arranging a cable around my ear I would rather just use my ZS6, ZSR or ZS10.  I actually  had a hard time grasping it to position it and again when removing it.  The larger shells are easier for me but I suspect no one else will think so.

I really love my ED16.  I really want to spend much more time with it but this week have been sidetracked by a new non KZ IEM and a new bud.


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> I have yet to hear an ES4 and am tempted to get the green one but first I should listen to my husbands black one.
> 
> I did try the ZSA but it was out of phase at the time when I listened... but I will say that I am in the minority it seems in not liking the form factor.  If I am going to go to the trouble of arranging a cable around my ear I would rather just use my ZS6, ZSR or ZS10.  I actually  had a hard time grasping it to position it and again when removing it.  The larger shells are easier for me but I suspect no one else will think so.
> 
> I really love my ED16.  I really want to spend much more time with it but this week have been sidetracked by a new non KZ IEM and a new bud.


Size-wise, how would you put the ED16 next to the ZS10?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 7, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Size-wise, how would you put the ED16 next to the ZS10?



The ED16 is much smaller than the ZS10... I will take a picture and edit this post.   I know I said I did not like how small the ZSA is but the shape is very different.  BTW, I do like small IEMs that go straight in and are worn cable down like the ED9

edit:  here are the photos.  The ZS10 is not only bigger but it is also thicker than the ED16.    The ED16 lies flat in my ear... I could lie on my side with it.   The ZS10 sticks out but does not bother me .However the tips I am using are the only ones that made them fit right and I am not even sure what they are unfortunately.


----------



## neo_styles

Oh wow, that is a pretty big difference. Appreciate the insight.


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> Oh wow, that is a pretty big difference. Appreciate the insight.



When I was taking the photos I  kept thinking I had already done it before... and I had!  Last Friday I posted these photos comparing the ED16 with both the ZS10 and the ZSR

Check it out...photos hidden in the spoiler in this post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2196#post-14276068


----------



## loomisjohnson

mbwilson111 said:


> I have yet to hear an ES4 and am tempted to get the green one but first I should listen to my husbands black one.
> 
> I did try the ZSA but it was out of phase at the time when I listened... but I will say that I am in the minority it seems in not liking the form factor.  If I am going to go to the trouble of arranging a cable around my ear I would rather just use my ZS6, ZSR or ZS10.  I actually  had a hard time grasping it to position it and again when removing it.  The larger shells are easier for me but I suspect no one else will think so.
> 
> I really love my ED16.  I really want to spend much more time with it but this week have been sidetracked by a new non KZ IEM and a new bud.


actually, the smaller form factor appeals to me--the zs5 and zs6 are a tough fit; the zsr is more ergonomic but big and sorta unweildy-looking


----------



## B9Scrambler

Continuing size comparisons, the Shozy Hibiki makes the ZS10 look almost sleek.

  ​


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> actually, the smaller form factor appeals to me--the zs5 and zs6 are a tough fit; the zsr is more ergonomic but big and sorta unweildy-looking



All three of the ones you were thinking about ..ED16, ES4 and ZSA are smallish.  I have seen and held all three.... just not heard them all.   Like I said there was something about the ZSA that just made it awkward for me to grasp them properly to position them....and then I had to kind of dig them out.  Probably I am just weird.


----------



## ALBERTZ (Jun 7, 2018)

First post,
Hi ya'll, Im looking to buy first pair of KZ's.  Love bass.  Like great balance too.  Thinking about the es4s.  From what ive been reading, they have been getting good reviews.  ES4, ZS 10, ED16, or ZSA?  Which has the deepest and best bass, with other benefits.  Forgive my lack of audiophile knowledge and terminology, novice here.  Thanks

Ive read they can have some spikes in the treble department (me no likey), but can be tamed and broken in, or "burned in" - guessing that means just to play different types of music for an extended period of time to mellow them out a bit.


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 7, 2018)

Started playing around with EW on the ES4 based on suggestions from Photograph. If I'm way off here, please feel free to make suggestions. My goal was to tame some of the treble energy and clean up midbass bleed.


----------



## Audrix

ALBERTZ said:


> First post,
> Hi ya'll, Im looking to buy first pair of KZ's.  Love bass.  Like great balance too.  Thinking about the es4s.  From what ive been reading, they have been getting good reviews.  ES4, ZS 10, ED16, or ZSA?  Which has the deepest and best bass, with other benefits.  Forgive my lack of audiophile knowledge and terminology, novice here.  Thanks



Hello and welcome! I heard ES4 has an excellent bass extend and overall energetic bass quality and quantity. They got a so-little mid recess, so i guess you could call it balanced. Plus, they have a good response to equalizer so you could set then yourself if you don’t like a bit of their sound


----------



## mbwilson111

Audrix said:


> Hello and welcome! I heard ES4 has an excellent bass extend and overall energetic bass quality and quantity. They got a so-little mid recess, so i guess you could call it balanced. Plus, they have a good response to equalizer so you could set then yourself if you don’t like a bit of their sound



Do you have the ES4?


----------



## Audrix

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you have the ES4?



I said that “I heard” that ES4 has those kind of sound (from thephonograph.net to be exact). I’m just trying to help from the info that i got.


----------



## rayliam80 (Jun 7, 2018)

My ZSA arrived a few days ago. First thing, the upgrade silver cable with angled 2 pin connectors sent by KZ Official Store does not fit the ZSA - pins fit but slide out way too easily as the cable connector never inserts into the shell of the ZSA. This was always already mentioned but not sure if the specific seller was said. So if you're still waiting for your ZSA from KZ Official Store, just know the upgrade silver cable will not fit properly. The stock cable is fine though. But I ended up preferring the original stock cable that came with the ZS6 over the braid and put on some Auvio wide bore tips as well. The sound: I agree with most of the other impressions already posted. Slightly airy, sound signature in line with the ZS10 but less emphasis on lower mids. Mid treble is not piercing. I find the soundstage to be almost as good as the ZS6. The ES4 in cyan has been tempting me but if it's almost the same sound as the ZSA, I'll go ahead and pass. My IEM collection is getting a bit out of hand now, at least on my terms - YMMV, and my wallet needs to recover...


----------



## neo_styles

Aaaand now the ZS10 will be on their way. I think I'm beginning to have KZ acquisition disorder.


----------



## rayliam80 (Jun 7, 2018)

Another budget cable to maybe consider for the new KZ's is the TRN silver upgrade cable found on NiceHCK. There is a little bit more treble clarity and bass depth compared to the stock KZ braid cable which sounds a little flatter in comparison. Probably an impedance issue but I don't have any way to measure it to be sure. I tried it on my ZSA and instead of the stock ZS6 cable, I think I'll use this one instead. I compared the ZSA and the ZST, both with TRN silver cables and triple flange tips. The ZST sounds flatter and the ZSA sounds slightly holographic. Getting better instrument separation and layering with the ZSA too. But compared to the ZS6 and the ZS10, overall, it doesn't image instruments as well as those. I feel like the ZSA sits well in it's current price range, around $22 USD.



Spoiler


----------



## durwood (Jun 7, 2018)

thephonograph has a ZSA review up, response curves are nearly identical between their ES4 and ZSA review. I am glad I decided at the last minute to go with the cheaper ES4 and hold off on the ZSA. While the ZSA looks nice, I do like the smooth rounded edges of the ES4. I can lay down with them in my ears.

Audiobudget FB has measurements up for the ED16, it does look like a similar ZSR, treble is boosted through 2-5Khz by about 6db maybe. Held off on that one as well, already own the ZSR. Still considering it since it is smaller. The ZSR stays nicely in place in my ears though.


----------



## scottySK

rayliam80 said:


> Another budget cable to maybe consider for the new KZ's is the TRN silver upgrade cable found on NiceHCK. There is a little bit more treble clarity and bass depth compared to the stock KZ braid cable which sounds a little flatter in comparison. Probably an impedance issue but I don't have any way to measure it to be sure. I tried it on my ZSA and instead of the stock ZS6 cable, I think I'll use this one instead. I compared the ZSA and the ZST, both with TRN silver cables and triple flange tips. The ZST sounds flatter and the ZSA sounds slightly holographic. Getting better instrument separation and layering with the ZSA too. But compared to the ZS6 and the ZS10, overall, it doesn't image instruments as well as those. I feel like the ZSA sits well in it's current price range, around $22 USD.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Does the trn cable actually sit fully within the ZSA? The kz upgrade cable doesn't fit properly and so keeps coming off for me


----------



## mrmoto050

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe I am the weirdo.  I only listen to full albums.


Same here.


----------



## CoiL

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe I am the weirdo.  I only listen to full albums.


You are not alone! Only listening 16/44 FLAC albums with cue @ DX5X. 


Bartig said:


> - No need to buy when you have the ES4; they sound almost exactly the same. Apart from:
> - Almost no soundstage





Bartig said:


> About the soundstage: I will try more than the tips of KZ and my current favorite, but compared to the ES4, ZS10 and ZSR* I miss the lovely airiness* on this one. Whereas *drums on the ES4 can be all around you*, even songs that excel in soundstage sound a bit (but not worthlessly - just in comparison!) closed in on the ZSA.


Once again - glad I went with ES4 (teal) ;P


B9Scrambler said:


> Continuing size comparisons, the Shozy Hibiki makes the ZS10 look almost sleek.
> ​


Oh my... while more and more impressions make me tempted to try out ZS10 (or use it for modding), I think ZS10 nozzle angles & size will not suit me.
But like I said - I`m tempted to mod ZS10 drivers into ZS3 shells with custom wide-bore nozzle.


----------



## rayliam80

scottySK said:


> Does the trn cable actually sit fully within the ZSA? The kz upgrade cable doesn't fit properly and so keeps coming off for me



The TRN silver cable has a tight connection with the ZSA. It doesn't slip off unlike the KZ silver upgrade cable that was included which I also have. The cable connector on the KZ silver cable is too wide and seems to prevent the 2 pins from seating deeper into the socket of the ZSA. But the TRN cable is slimmer and allows the 2 pins to go all the way down. At least that's how I see it.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> I`m tempted to mod ZS10 drivers into ZS3 shells with custom wide-bore nozzle.



Just wait for the ZS4. It should come with a larger nozzle to accommodate the BA. It could potentially save you a lot of time and trouble


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Just wait for the ZS4. It should come with a larger nozzle to accommodate the BA. It could potentially save you a lot of time and trouble


Nah, it isn`t trouble for me  Just wish I had more time off from baby & work & house building to do mods.


----------



## rayliam80

rayliam80 said:


> The TRN silver cable has a tight connection with the ZSA. It doesn't slip off unlike the KZ silver upgrade cable that was included which I also have. The cable connector on the KZ silver cable is too wide and seems to prevent the 2 pins from seating deeper into the socket of the ZSA. But the TRN cable is slimmer and allows the 2 pins to go all the way down. At least that's how I see it.



@scottySK 

The pins for the TRN cable are slightly longer too.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Just wish I had more time off from baby & work & house building to do mods.



Hence why it would save you a lot of time and trouble.

I know you certainly have the modding skills - it's *finding time *that always seems to be the problem haha


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2018)

scottySK said:


> Does the trn cable actually sit fully within the ZSA? The kz upgrade cable doesn't fit properly and so keeps coming off for me





rayliam80 said:


> @scottySK
> 
> The pins for the TRN cable are slightly longer too.



You can also take the KZ 8-braid silver upgrade cable, and trim the plastic off of the plug like many of us do. After doing that, the pins are even longer than the TRN (and have no problems fitting anything)!

A little later, I'll post a comparison photo of all 3 side by side to show the differences.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 7, 2018)

Btw, Idk if any of You have read those reviews on ES4 & ZS10 (there are spelling and words misuse faults, but still understandable):
http://www.awaqa.com/kz-es4-review-reliability-earphones-price-buy/
http://www.awaqa.com/kz-zs10-review-emotional-hybrid-earphone-low-price-buy-2018/

Not much mention about gear and music but still seem honestly written and nice pics.

Edit: seems that smartphone & pop-music are used to evaluate. Still, ES4 soundstage gets + points - another review that points it out (as Bartig vs. ZSA).


----------



## neo_styles

CoiL said:


> Btw, Idk if any of You have read those reviews on ES4 & ZS10 (there are spelling and words misuse faults, but still understandable):
> http://www.awaqa.com/kz-es4-review-reliability-earphones-price-buy/
> http://www.awaqa.com/kz-zs10-review-emotional-hybrid-earphone-low-price-buy-2018/
> 
> ...


Yeah, driver count on the ES4 was off, but they're good reads. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## scottySK

@Slater @rayliam80
Thanks for the info, I might look at modifying the KZ cable if I get the time.. otherwise I might just go ahead and order the TRN version


----------



## Bartig

So after the ZSR, the ZS10, the ES4 and the ZSA, I’ve received the one and only....




... IEM that started it all. The EDR1!


----------



## nxnje

nxnje said:


> Yo guys
> My credit card is going to expire in july, and i'm actually thinkin about what can i buy in order to use the last €€ i got on it.
> I have like 20 euros there that i saved to buy some audio stuff but i'm really confused.
> 
> ...



Someone who can help here? Thanks in advance, i'm really excited to buy a new pair of audio stuff.. judt need a tip considering my needs which i described i in this quote


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jun 7, 2018)

I already have KZ ZS5 v1, ZSE, ZS6, and ZSR (among other IEMs), but based on the positive feedback they're getting I'm really tempted to buy the ES4... But does it even make sense? Are they really any better/different from the KZs that I own?


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Someone who can help here? Thanks in advance, i'm really excited to buy a new pair of audio stuff.. judt need a tip considering my needs which i described i in this quote



UiiSii CM5 would fit the bill. And if you have a few bucks leftover to eat up the remainder of your credit, add a pair of EDR1.


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2018)

SiggyFraud said:


> I already have KZ ZS5 v1, ZSE, ZS6, and ZSR (among other IEMs), but based on the positive feedback they're getting I'm really tempted to buy the ZS4... But does it even make sense? Are they really any better/different from the KZs that I own?



No one knows yet. The ZS4 aren’t even out yet. We’ve only seen 1 concept photo and nothing more. There’s no release date, and no idea of its sound yet.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Slater said:


> No one knows yet. The ZS4 aren’t even out yet. We’ve only seen 1 concept photo and nothing more.


Sorry, I meant ES4. I'll edit my earlier post.


----------



## scottySK

nxnje said:


> Someone who can help here? Thanks in advance, i'm really excited to buy a new pair of audio stuff.. judt need a tip considering my needs which i described i in this quote


Of those you mentioned I only have the ZSA, definitely great for small ears as they are tiny compared to other over ear style monitors I have used. My EDR1 are very bass heavy and as Slater mentioned they are a good, cheap pick up. I bought mine for $2.99 USD so you can't really go wrong there


----------



## HungryPanda

ES4 the new KZ  star


----------



## BrunoC

Bartig said:


> So after the ZSR, the ZS10, the ES4 and the ZSA, I’ve received the one and only....
> 
> ... IEM that started it all. The EDR1!



The EDR1 is just incredible value.

The first time I listened to the EDR1 with my XIAOMI Mi A1 with the GENERAL IEM preset I was just blown away! Such warm bass and incredible clarity and balanced sound. Out of this world for 3€!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I'm using edr1 every morning while walking the dogs. Love it. Bought an extra one with mic, and one without. I love it so much I bought the company(I wish).


----------



## Bartig

Haha, awesome nostalgia/ adoration levels on the EDR1 here.


----------



## audionab

mbwilson111 said:


> I have yet to hear an ES4 and am tempted to get the green one but first I should listen to my husbands black one.
> 
> I did try the ZSA but it was out of phase at the time when I listened... but I will say that I am in the minority it seems in not liking the form factor.  If I am going to go to the trouble of arranging a cable around my ear I would rather just use my ZS6, ZSR or ZS10.  I actually  had a hard time grasping it to position it and again when removing it.  The larger shells are easier for me but I suspect no one else will think so.
> 
> I really love my ED16.  I really want to spend much more time with it but this week have been sidetracked by a new non KZ IEM and a new bud.


waiting for the impressions on ed16 
no one really has commented on ed16


----------



## neo_styles

I continue to be surprised at how effortless and low these ES4 extend. Listening to Drum and Bass right now and, where I'd normally hear major differences in volume of the bassline, it's just smooth all the way down. Well done, KZ


----------



## audionab

now i am more excited to get my kz es4(got em on gearbest for 14$)
also i have my RNF replacement coming next week es4 may overshadow RNF lol


----------



## audionab (Jun 7, 2018)

removed


----------



## Slater (Jun 7, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Haha, awesome nostalgia/ adoration levels on the EDR1 here.



Yeah, but that adoration is totally justified. There is no KZ hype train needed with the EDR1 - it's the real deal.

I've said it a number of times before - if I had to get rid of all but 5 of my IEMs, the EDR1 would be in that list for sure. Good thing I'm all stocked up on them 

A truly mind blowing cost-to-performance-to-fun ratio for all of the genres I enjoy. Sure, it's not totally perfect, but even $1k gear isn't.

If KZ would use the same driver in a new IEM (say a single BA hybrid in a shell like the ZS3), it has the possibly of being an end-game IEM. None of this 4, 5, and 6 BAs slapped haphazardly in a shell business needed.

Or who knows - maybe it was the combination of that particular 7mm driver in that particular shell with the specific tuning - and changing any 1 single component would upset the balance and lose all of the magic. Whatever it was though, they definitely caught lightning in a bottle (and for $4 no less).


----------



## DocHoliday

neo_styles said:


> I think I'm beginning to have KZ acquisition disorder.


----------



## chi-fi mel

Slater said:


> Yeah, but that adoration is totally justified. There is no KZ hype train needed with the EDR1 - it's the real deal.
> 
> I've said it a number of times before - if I had to get rid of all but 5 of my IEMs, the EDR1 would be in that list for sure. Good thing I'm all stocked up on them
> 
> ...


I have the EDR2, although it's not the special edition. I'm impressed by it but I mainly use my ES3 for listening to music, and that would be my favorite from the KZ line. Should I upgrade my EDR2 to the EDR1 or the EDR2 Special Edition?


----------



## Slater

chi-fi mel said:


> I have the EDR2, although it's not the special edition. I'm impressed by it but I mainly use my ES3 for listening to music, and that would be my favorite from the KZ line. Should I upgrade my EDR2 to the EDR1 or the EDR2 Special Edition?



The special edition is nothing ‘special’ whatsoever. The EDR1 is the superior one out of the 3.


----------



## Makahl (Jun 8, 2018)

For those who want to mod the ZS3's shell or if you have a broken pair and want to a DIY adventure the good news is it's rather easy to open it. I didn't even need a heat gun or hair dryer just a utility knife and making a "zig-zag" movement until reach inside and keep that around the shell was enough to open it. Also, there's a lot of glue inside and remove it maybe gonna be a bit tricky, however, a needle nose plier helped me a lot.

My original idea was modding the ZS3 into a hybrid something like that. But as you can see there's no room:



Spoiler











So it's was rather removing the nozzle and heavily modding it or just creating a single full-range BA configuration like that:



Spoiler











The nozzle fits perfectly fine a 3mm tube and a Knowles damper, so moving ZS10's drivers into ZS3's shell like @CoiL's idea will require a lot of work lol. You can also create a Y-tube too but I'm too newbie for that and the room is really limited.


----------



## HerrXRDS

What type of glue are they using to hold the drivers? That flexible stuff? It's not hot glue by the looks of it.


----------



## ALBERTZ

A bit off topic, which foam eartips fit KZ products (ES4) to be exact).  Looking in my online shop here in Thailand and everything is written in Chinese also.  KZ has some , will they fit do you think? One is rounded and other is like a cone shape.  Thanks


----------



## Makahl (Jun 8, 2018)

edit.


----------



## SiggyFraud

SiggyFraud said:


> I already have KZ ZS5 v1, ZSE, ZS6, and ZSR (among other IEMs), but based on the positive feedback they're getting I'm really tempted to buy the ES4... But does it even make sense? Are they really any better/different from the KZs that I own?


Sooo, ES4 > ZS5 v1/ZS6/ZSR?


----------



## Bartig

SiggyFraud said:


> Sooo, ES4 > ZS5 v1/ZS6/ZSR?


No. It’s not necessarily better. It’s tuned different and has a fun factor. The ZSR sound more airy, the highs of the ZS5 have more clarity. The ES4’s main strength is it’s bass. It goes deep.


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> What type of glue are they using to hold the drivers? That flexible stuff? It's not hot glue by the looks of it.



Just 2-part epoxy.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> UiiSii CM5 would fit the bill. And if you have a few bucks leftover to eat up the remainder of your credit, add a pair of EDR1.


Had a chance days ago to listen to the edr1, i still prefer the bass of my memt x5, more controlled and less bleed into the mid frequencies.
What i wanted was a balanced headphone with a great spectrum overall.
What i hate about my memt is the little soundstage.. then i wanted to try a multiple driver iem like the es4..
I really can't stand the driver flex anymore with my memt and silicon tips and wanted to try a headphones with separated drivers for the frequencies. Atm i just tried single driver headphones


----------



## themindfreak

Wew the new full BA KZ flagship has been confirmed. Its not 10 BA per side. Its 5 BA per side. 
https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/1005020575075405824


----------



## CoiL (Jun 8, 2018)

Makahl said:


> My original idea was modding the ZS3 into a hybrid something like that. But as you can see there's no room:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


For me there is enough room  Wide bore nozzle and lot of room inside shell for BAs and tubings + I can "extend" shell little with wood.


Spoiler: ZS3 nozzle change


----------



## KipNix

Slater said:


> A truly mind blowing cost-to-performance-to-fun ratio for all of the genres I enjoy. Sure, it's not totally perfect, but even $1k gear isn't.



+1 for this, since looking at this "ranking list". 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-ranking-list-170-entries-11-05-update.857498/

  Take a look at the signatures of the IEMs >$1000; all the way up to $3000: 
"bassy"
"V-shaped"
"warm neutral" 
Even "W-shaped"! 
Why our KZ items are so poorly ranked I don't understand, but I suspect they wouldn't be if there was blind testing going on. 
I'd like to hear your comments, brothers and sisters.


----------



## s8grave (Jun 8, 2018)

*KipNix,
*
Because KZs are dirt cheap, that is why)
Price is making earphones sound magical(and Placebo), not FR graphs or anything else)
I was very impressed with all this chi-fi stuff, and of course expensive gear sounds GREAT(not all of it), but KZ sounds AWESOME. I own KZ ZST, ZS5, ZSR and waiting for ED16 and ZS10 to arrive.
ZSRs I like the most for now, and prefer them to my custom Westone ES60. IMHO, and sorry for my English.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Jun 8, 2018)

Listening to Kansas-Leftoverture and Beyond Live  KZ-ZSA's (JVC Spiral Dots Medium) with DX150/AMP4s combo this morning. Great synergy. Good energy.Very clear.


----------



## Slater

KipNix said:


> +1 for this, since looking at this "ranking list".
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-ranking-list-170-entries-11-05-update.857498/
> 
> ...



They just occupy a different part of the product landscape.

Like a Kia Optima Turbo and a BMW  M550i. Both good cars within their respective segments, but it is not realistic to directly compare them.

I do know that inconsistent QC doesn’t help KZ any, even in the eyes of die-hard KZ fans.


----------



## Danfish98

I didn't know searching for new IEMs for work could be so dangerous. I'd been using Klipsch R6 ear buds. They were OK, but I wanted something better. Via a combination of Reddit and here I learn about KZ. Saw the ZS5 for $22 on GB a couple weeks ago and decided to give them a shot. After listening to a couple songs with the equalizer cut a couple db at 8khz I was blown away. Had the wife try them, she immediately wanted a pair, so I took that opportunity to order the zs10. Haven't received those yet but from the past several pages of this thread I decided I had to try the es4 too since they're only $14 at the moment. I guess my wallet can't hate you all too much at these prices...


----------



## DocHoliday

Danfish98 said:


> I guess my wallet can't hate you all too much at these prices...



You've no idea what you've gotten yourself into buddy!


----------



## MDH12AX7

Bartig said:


> Better than WHAT dear Wilson, better than WHAT?
> 
> 
> The ES4 isn’t bright at all. In fact, it’s like the ZSR with a tighter bass and less highs.
> ...


Thank you! Just got my Zsa in last night. After a mighty long session of tip rolling I finally got them to seal. I wish the nozzles were just a tad longer. Had to use deep tips with an o-ring spacer to get a seal. They are burning in now and I will try them out tonight. I also love the look and the build quality. If they only came in purple....


----------



## Slater

People have asked me this quite a few times via PM, so I thought I would share this for the community.

Despite looking identical, the EDR1 and EDSE are different. They use different drivers, sound different, and have very minor physical differences.

To physically tell the difference, look on the underneath side of the IEM shell. Right next to the wire strain relief, you will see (1) small driver vent hole. The vent hole is in different places on the EDR1 vs EDSE.

See the photo for the location of the vent holes:





It used to be possible to be able to tell them apart by measuring the length of the IEM shell, but KZ has made a minor change to the EDR1 shell length in recent production runs. *Therefore, the vent hole is the most reliable way to tell them apart.*


----------



## MDH12AX7

oneula said:


> just ordered the ES4 and ZSA  if they are as good as everyone claims I'll get rid of my ATR, ZST, ZS3(black), ZSR(green) znd ZS10(blue) and just keep those two.


Es4 is my favorite KZ atm..... Waiting for the Ed16 tho....


----------



## nkramer (Jun 8, 2018)

just FYI, massdrop is running the Venture Electronics (the ones that make the monk) IEM Cables drop again.  they have 2 pin (yes, .78mm) in standard 3.5mm as well as 2.5mm TRRS (balanced)
i got one on the last drop and they are so much nicer than the KZ cables. much softer (not as stiff as the clear or "smoke" cables) and with the color you don't have to worry about the green that was discussed for pages on end, plus, no ear wires to remove.

here's the links & a pic:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-iem-cables


or you can get the espresso edition on Ali
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VE-Basic-0-78-2-5trrs-3-5trrs-cable/32822038909.html


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Jun 8, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Yo guys
> My credit card is going to expire in july, and i'm actually thinkin about what can i buy in order to use the last €€ i got on it.
> I have like 20 euros there that i saved to buy some audio stuff but i'm really confused.
> 
> ...


Es4 or ZSR for big bass. I think the Es4 has better mids and relaxed treble. If you want sharper treble the ZSR might suit you better. Es4 is more natural sounding and ZSR is kinda larger than life, hyped bass and treble. Also, the Es4 is smaller and more comfy, for me at least.


----------



## Slater (Jun 8, 2018)

scottySK said:


> Does the trn cable actually sit fully within the ZSA? The kz upgrade cable doesn't fit properly and so keeps coming off for me





rayliam80 said:


> @scottySK
> 
> The pins for the TRN cable are slightly longer too.



_"You can also take the KZ 8-braid silver upgrade cable, and trim the plastic off of the plug like many of us do. After doing that, the pins are even longer than the TRN (and have no problems fitting anything)! A little later, I'll post a comparison photo of all 3 side by side to show the differences."

_
Here is that photo as promised.

You can see the different pin lengths of the following:

1 Unmodified KZ cable (stock and KZ upgrade cables)
2. Modified KZ 8-wire braided upgrade cable (with plastic shoulder cut off)
3. TRN cable (black and silver)



Ignore the shoulder type (ie ZST vs ZS3); just look at the length of the actual pins.

You can use the longer pin lengths to fit IEMs that fit too loosely (with the stock cables) and on IEMs they were not designed for (like one that was intended for the thinner ZS3 shoulder). And no, it does not hurt the IEM in any way to use the longer pins. The KZ 2-pin female socket is incredibly deep, and can accommodate the long pins with ease.

In other words, the modified cable (#2) is the most "universal". The only downside is that once you trim off the plastic shoulder, you cannot tell the proper direction of the pins to ensure you are plugging them in properly (ie not out-of-phase). Therefore, what I do *BEFORE trimming off the plastic*, is mark the cables by scratching a mark on the aluminum shoulder where the "rounded" end would normally go using a sharp tool (like a sewing needle). If you have no idea what I'm referring to, check this link: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067
*
*


----------



## 1clearhead

Just tried my new *KZ ED16* (aka ZS7) for several hours. 

Organic, luscious, with plenty of details!...Wow! These are a serious "game changer" for KZ! I'll be burning them in for at least 100 hours before determining their status. I seriously have to try these against my beloved ZS5 to see if they are worthy of the KZ throne.

-Clear


----------



## Zerohour88

KipNix said:


> +1 for this, since looking at this "ranking list".
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-ranking-list-170-entries-11-05-update.857498/
> 
> ...



the highest grade I've tested based on the ranking is the UERM and that's in a different league than any other I've tested, dead flat is right on. Next would be Dita Brass (technically not the Brass, since its normal edition) and SE846, they definitely deserve their ranking. Its important to note that finding your preference is important before looking at any kind of review. Crinacle have his own criteria and understanding that, you can see why the ranking makes sense. He does make a disclaimer in the beginning that its just his opinion and don't get too offended by any statement he makes. For example, lots of people liked the Shozy Hibiki but he ranks it even lower than the ZS3 and ZST.


----------



## MDH12AX7

SiggyFraud said:


> I already have KZ ZS5 v1, ZSE, ZS6, and ZSR (among other IEMs), but based on the positive feedback they're getting I'm really tempted to buy the ES4... But does it even make sense? Are they really any better/different from the KZs that I own?


I don't own the ZS5 or Zse but I can confirm that the Es4 is different from the ZS6 and ZSR. The Es4 is just more cohesive. The mids sound much more natural and not mid scooped out. The treble is relaxed but very smooth and even. Bass is elevated but sounds great with good control and texture. The Es4 just has no nasty peaks or valleys. It's the only iem that I don't eq the mids up on. No need to. Guess I'm the Es4 fan boy now! Lol


----------



## MDH12AX7

Danfish98 said:


> I didn't know searching for new IEMs for work could be so dangerous. I'd been using Klipsch R6 ear buds. They were OK, but I wanted something better. Via a combination of Reddit and here I learn about KZ. Saw the ZS5 for $22 on GB a couple weeks ago and decided to give them a shot. After listening to a couple songs with the equalizer cut a couple db at 8khz I was blown away. Had the wife try them, she immediately wanted a pair, so I took that opportunity to order the zs10. Haven't received those yet but from the past several pages of this thread I decided I had to try the es4 too since they're only $14 at the moment. I guess my wallet can't hate you all too much at these prices...


Welcome to Head-fi and sorry about your wallet


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> Just tried my new *KZ ED16* (aka ZS7) for several hours.
> 
> Organic, luscious, with plenty of details!...Wow! These are a serious "game changer" for KZ! I'll be burning them in for at least 100 hours before determining their status. I seriously have to try these against my beloved ZS5 to see if they are worthy of the KZ throne.
> 
> -Clear



I said the ED16 was good. I just did not know how to describe it the way you have.


----------



## zazaboy

Are the KZ ed16 the best KZ atm?


----------



## mbwilson111

zazaboy said:


> Are the KZ ed16 the best KZ atm?



I am not going to even attempt to answer a question like that.


----------



## Slater (Jun 8, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> Are the KZ ed16 the best KZ atm?



The "best" how?

Best price?
Best basshead signature?
Best comfort/fit?
Best looks?
Best for neutral signature?
Best natural timbre?
Best midrange?
Best clarity?
Best price-to-value ratio?
Best for small ears?
Best soundstage?
Best instrument separation?
Best fixed cable KZ?
Best removable cable KZ?
Best to use for working out?
Best when used with Bluetooth cable?
Best to use when amped?
Best to use with a phone as a source?
Best retail unboxing experience?
Best YouTube reviews?
Best tasting?
Best as fishing lures?

What one person thinks is "best" is not what others would think is "best". It depends on individual ears, anatomy, what genres you like, your budget, intended use, your source, etc.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> The "best" how?
> 
> Best price?
> Best basshead signature?
> ...



Careful, you might be expected to answer all of those questions


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Careful, you might be expected to answer all of those questions



That's for him to answer not me


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> That's for him to answer not me



So, you won't tell me which one tastes the best?  So disappointed.


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> So, you won't tell me which one tastes the best?  So disappointed.


Isn't that Otto Motor's specialty?


----------



## nkramer

mbwilson111 said:


> So, you won't tell me which one tastes the best?  So disappointed.



...also depends on if you use any condiments. but i guess that would be "modding".....


----------



## Slater

nkramer said:


> ...also depends on if you use any condiments. but i guess that would be "modding".....



They go down easiest with BBQ sauce, sriracha, or gochujang sauce.


----------



## nkramer

Slater said:


> They go down easiest with BBQ sauce, sriracha, or gochujang sauce.



... so you're saying you need something thick or spicy to cover up the.... taste. got it. (...falling off my chair laughing)


----------



## scottySK

Slater said:


> _"You can also take the KZ 8-braid silver upgrade cable, and trim the plastic off of the plug like many of us do. After doing that, the pins are even longer than the TRN (and have no problems fitting anything)! A little later, I'll post a comparison photo of all 3 side by side to show the differences."
> 
> _
> Here is that photo as promised.
> ...


Thanks for the detailed reply. What's the easiest way to cut off the plastic tips?


----------



## Slater (Jun 8, 2018)

scottySK said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply. What's the easiest way to cut off the plastic tips?



I use an Xacto (hobby) knife. The plastic is really soft. You just cut it off even with the aluminum top as a guide. It all comes off in 1 chunk.

And the nice thing is that you can also use the point of the Xacto knife to scratch in the mark where the rounded part of the plug normally goes. I scratch the little mark in the aluminum, because a sharpie would just rub off. I put my marks in that top (smooth) section of each aluminum plug.

You can see a good shot of what you trim off here (it's all of the whitish plastic part at the end):




And after you cut it off (apparently I did kind of a sloppy job when zoomed in this extreme):


----------



## zazaboy (Jun 8, 2018)

I mean does the KZ ed16 beats the current KZ iems in soundstage vocals Instruments accuracy with some good bass.. KZ has too many iems.. Lol.. Cant even track anymore getting dizzy


----------



## mbwilson111

zazaboy said:


> I mean does the KZ ed16 beats the current KZ iems in soundstage vocals Instruments accuracy with some good bass.. KZ has too many iems.. Lol.. Cant even track anymore getting dizzy



Exactly.  Just get one that you like the look of and enjoy your music.  You are overthinking it and no one can definitively answer the type of questions that you ask.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> I use an Xacto (hobby) knife. The plastic is really soft. You just cut it off even with the aluminum top as a guide. It all comes off in 1 chunk.
> 
> And the nice thing is that you can also use the point of the Xacto knife to scratch in the mark where the rounded part of the plug normally goes. I scratch the little mark in the aluminum, because a sharpie would just rub off. I put my marks in that top (smooth) section of each aluminum plug.
> 
> ...


A serrated edge steak knife is what I use. It's so soft only takes a few seconds.


----------



## beeghazhi

Slater said:


> *Therefore, the vent hole is the most reliable way to tell them apart.*


Long time Lurker just dropping in to say that the 'EDSE' I picked up from fasttech has the vent in the same place as the EDR1. Safe to assume I got the latter?

The only thing that I've noticed differentiating the two, physically at least, is that the 'EDSE' has a duller gold nozzle than the other.

In any case, I'm not complaining if they're both the same, just would've preferred not to have paid 2$ more for them.


----------



## Slater

beeghazhi said:


> Long time Lurker just dropping in to say that the 'EDSE' I picked up from fasttech has the vent in the same place as the EDR1. Safe to assume I got the latter?
> 
> The only thing that I've noticed differentiating the two, physically at least, is that the 'EDSE' has a duller gold nozzle than the other.
> 
> In any case, I'm not complaining if they're both the same, just would've preferred not to have paid 2$ more for them.



Yeah, sounds like you really got an EDR1. It’s easy for sellers to mix them up. Besides looking basically the same, they used to come in identical black cardboard boxes.

FYI, some of them do come a little duller looking than others (and some are super shiny gold). I’ve also noticed that sometimes the gold dulls a bit after using the EDSE and EDR1 a while. I assume it’s sweat or humidity oxidizing the zinc underneath the gold plating. It doesn’t hurt anything though.


----------



## mbwilson111

I borrowed my husbands KZ ES4 tonight to try to compare with the ED16.  I only listened to a few songs with each which is not the way I normally listen to music.  I really need to listen to a few albums in a row with one and then the other but will I ever have time?  Anyway I thought they both sounded great and enjoyed both.  I will leave it to others to give a more detailed comparison.  I will lend my ED16 to my husband tomorrow to see if he wants to give it a try.

What I can do is offer a couple of photos showing how they compare in shape and size.  Both are comfortable to me.  The ED16 lies flatter in my ear.  Here they are,  ES4 on the left and ED16 on the right.  Both are the black color option.


----------



## beeghazhi

Slater said:


> Yeah, sounds like you really got an EDR1. It’s easy for sellers to mix them up. Besides looking basically the same, they used to come in identical black cardboard boxes.
> 
> FYI, some of them do come a little duller looking than others (and some are super shiny gold). I’ve also noticed that sometimes the gold dulls a bit after using the EDSE and EDR1 a while. I assume it’s sweat or humidity oxidizing the zinc underneath the gold plating. It doesn’t hurt anything though.


Lesson learned.

Both of them arrived in identical black boxes with different SKUs, curiously. The EDR2 I got from them had the updated packaging though.


----------



## Slater (Jun 8, 2018)

beeghazhi said:


> Lesson learned.
> 
> Both of them arrived in identical black boxes with different SKUs, curiously. The EDR2 I got from them had the updated packaging though.



Well, since you got the EDR1, you got the better sounding of the 2 anyways. So don't feel bad at all.

As far as the packaging, depending on the seller there's still some EDR1s floating around out there in the old black cardboard boxes. KZ is still actively producing the EDR1 (as well as the EDR2), as I've received a few of each in the new white packaging. Luckily, there is no difference in the sound of the 'new' production runs of the EDR1 - they sound identical to the old ones in the black cardboard box.


----------



## audionab

those who received their es4 which did you all use after tip rolling?


----------



## HungryPanda

audionab said:


> those who received their es4 which did you all use after tip rolling?


I'm using large KZ starlines


----------



## beeghazhi

Slater said:


> Well, since you got the EDR1, you got the better sounding of the 2 anyways. So don't feel bad at all.
> 
> As far as the packaging, depending on the seller there's still some EDR1s floating around out there in the old black cardboard boxes. KZ is still actively producing the EDR1 (as well as the EDR2), as I've received a few of each in the new white packaging. Luckily, there is no difference in the sound of the 'new' production runs of the EDR1 - they sound identical to the old ones in the black cardboard box.


Not feeling bad at all! In fact I jumped on the EDR1 bandwagon after seeing all the drum beating you've been doing for them here and there.

Unfortunately for me, I either got sweat or water in my pair so every now and then, the audio inexplicably drops off, and when I look at the nozzle screen, it's damp. 

KZ Global Store are doing five for $13.30/ $2.66 a piece, so I've gone for that. Nice to have a couple of them laying around incase my head starts leaking again!


----------



## Slater

beeghazhi said:


> Not feeling bad at all! In fact I jumped on the EDR1 bandwagon after seeing all the drum beating you've been doing for them here and there.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I either got sweat or water in my pair so every now and then, the audio inexplicably drops off, and when I look at the nozzle screen, it's damp.
> 
> KZ Global Store are doing five for $13.30/ $2.66 a piece, so I've gone for that. Nice to have a couple of them laying around incase my head starts leaking again!



Really? Do you need a coupon for that price? I’ll go ahead and grab a couple of 5-packs for Xmas stocking stuffers. $2.66 woo-hoo!


----------



## MDH12AX7

audionab said:


> those who received their es4 which did you all use after tip rolling?


I use large bore tips to open up the top end and expand the soundstage. They are generic Monster Power Beats tips I got from ebay. Out of stock now.....


----------



## beeghazhi

Slater said:


> Really? Do you need a coupon for that price? I’ll go ahead and grab a couple of 5-packs for Xmas stocking stuffers. $2.66 woo-hoo!


No coupon it's advertised as EDR1 but the model's description states ED Special, which we've agreed is not what we are after.

I sent a little message with my order that I'm only interested in EDR1, and to cancel the order if that's not what's for sale. Still awaiting a reply.


----------



## Slater

beeghazhi said:


> No coupon it's advertised as EDR1 but the model's description states ED Special, which we've agreed is not what we are after.
> 
> I sent a little message with my order that I'm only interested in EDR1, and to cancel the order if that's not what's for sale. Still awaiting a reply.



Uh-oh, you’re right it’s not very clear exactly which one it is. The description is kind of a mashup of the EDR1 and EDSE.

Yeah, if it’s the EDSE, that would be a deal breaker for me. I’d be interested to know what they say.


----------



## Zerohour88

beeghazhi said:


> Not feeling bad at all! In fact I jumped on the EDR1 bandwagon after seeing all the drum beating you've been doing for them here and there.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I either got sweat or water in my pair so every now and then, the audio inexplicably drops off, and when I look at the nozzle screen, it's damp.
> 
> KZ Global Store are doing five for $13.30/ $2.66 a piece, so I've gone for that. Nice to have a couple of them laying around incase my head starts leaking again!



You can alleviate the problem with some filtered tips, like the SX series from comply.


----------



## Strat Rider

After my recent dispute with an AE seller, I did find an ad for the EDR1 that I wanted. 

But beware that the same ad also claims that EDR2 is the same iem, differences that it is in a different color. (thanks to @Slater) I know that is not the case. 

So I now have 4 pair of EDR2 & no EDR1 still. At the time I ordered the KZ "official" store did not list them.


----------



## Slater (Jun 9, 2018)

beeghazhi said:


> No coupon it's advertised as EDR1 but the model's description states ED Special, which we've agreed is not what we are after.
> 
> I sent a little message with my order that I'm only interested in EDR1, and to cancel the order if that's not what's for sale. Still awaiting a reply.



OK, I got this all squared away with the seller. They are EDR1. They sent me a photo of the new style white box (that clearly says EDR1). If you buy the 5 pack, they simply remove them from the white boxes and put them in 1 larger box.

I bought qty 10, and the seller even threw in one of the new KZ Pelican-style ABS storage boxes, as I've been wanting one of those for a while now (which is worth $6 if you factor in shipping)!

XMas stocking stuffers for $2.60 each? What a deal!

Thanks for turning me onto the deal - you made my day. I owe you a beer


----------



## Bartig

I made an extensive guide on how to recognize the EDR1. Here goes:


----------



## scottySK

Anyone else disappointed that the alleged 8 BA per side KZ is going to be only 5 BA per side? How much difference do you expect there to be from the ZS10? (I've never used an iem without a DD)


----------



## audionab

scottySK said:


> Anyone else disappointed that the alleged 8 BA per side KZ is going to be only 5 BA per side? How much difference do you expect there to be from the ZS10? (I've never used an iem without a DD)


number of drivers don't matter bro
and pure ba sound is more consistent than a hybrid of dd and ba i think


----------



## scottySK

audionab said:


> number of drivers don't matter bro
> and pure ba sound is more consistent than a hybrid of dd and ba i think


Fair point. What would you think a good price would be for a 5 BA per side in the usual KZ plastic housing? $40 usd?


----------



## audionab

scottySK said:


> Fair point. What would you think a good price would be for a 5 BA per side in the usual KZ plastic housing? $40 usd?


i would say 50+$ since pure BA are harder to tune especially for bass


----------



## Zerohour88

scottySK said:


> Anyone else disappointed that the alleged 8 BA per side KZ is going to be only 5 BA per side? How much difference do you expect there to be from the ZS10? (I've never used an iem without a DD)



what 8BA? they only announced a 12 driver and 10BA, I've heard no mention of any 16 drivers.

10BA per side should be around the same range as ZS10, maybe more depending on the body design.

You can get decently tuned all BA IEMs from taobao at around 100 bux+, some DIY brands and also off-brands. Might want to skip the fancy cables option though, far too finicky in terms of quality.


----------



## nxnje

MDH12AX7 said:


> Es4 or ZSR for big bass. I think the Es4 has better mids and relaxed treble. If you want sharper treble the ZSR might suit you better. Es4 is more natural sounding and ZSR is kinda larger than life, hyped bass and treble. Also, the Es4 is smaller and more comfy, for me at least.



Saw online many people saying zsr is a great iem but i'm really afraid it can't be comfy for me.
I didn't find comfy the zs3 so i dunno, maybe zsr are even bigger and could be annoying for my ear.
Then i saw reviews about es4 and zsa and people say zsa is smaller and more comfy, but i can't really understand how the es4 is big.
Now i'm seeing many people ordering the ed16.  I am really confused, confused because i don't wanna buy an iem that is not a definite step up from my memt x5v2


----------



## chechu21

I'm excited about a KZ ED16 review!


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

I have a problem. I received the ZS6, but I can't change the ear tips. I removed the one it had and I wanted to put the smallest ear tip that KZ had, but it doesn't fit. Or maybe it is fit but it's hard to place.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> People have asked me this quite a few times via PM, so I thought I would share this for the community.
> 
> Despite looking identical, the EDR1 and EDSE are different. They use different drivers, sound different, and have very minor physical differences.
> 
> ...




OK. Got a problem here....

When I ordered my ZS10 from the official store on AE, I was gifted a pair of edr1 for free. They came in the white box clearly stating that they were edr1. I had to tear open the box as there is no way to open and close the box without tearing the cardboard seal. That pair of earphones has the vent hole in the front. I then ordered another set of edr1 w mic from amazon. That pair came in a black box and also has the vent hole in the front. 

Possible the info is backwards? I see how a black box mixup could happen, but impossible for a white box mixup. BTW both edr1/edse phones I have sound the same, and both sound great. The edr2 I received was very lacking compared.


----------



## mbwilson111

O


VibrantHarmonics said:


> I have a problem. I received the ZS6, but I can't change the ear tips. I removed the one it had and I wanted to put the smallest ear tip that KZ had, but it doesn't fit. Or maybe it is fit but it's hard to place.



I pull the outer part of the tip back so it is inside out with the sleeve  part sticking out.  Then after I wiggle the sleeve onto the nozzle, I pull the outer part back into place.


----------



## zazaboy (Jun 9, 2018)

buy the edr1 from gearbest I dont ordered from aliexpress for the same reason... too many different models.. I dont know which is which model


https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216168.html?wid=1527929 here is the link


----------



## crinacle

KipNix said:


> +1 for this, since looking at this "ranking list".
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crinacles-iem-ranking-list-170-entries-11-05-update.857498/
> 
> ...



And on the other side of the fence, KZ fanboys with zero critical listening ability and experience claiming that anyone who thinks that KZ is bad are bad themselves.

You don't have to believe me. Try the IEMs in the upper tiers and see for yourself (try a lot, don't pick and choose 1 or 2 that you don't like and form a straw man argument based on that). If it will EVER be possible, I can blind test an S tier IEM and pick it against a ZS5 10 out of 10 times. The differences are EXTREMELY obvious to a trained ear.

That said, I did try out a ZSR just now, and it was veeeery good. How good exactly on my list I'm not too sure, not enough listening time.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> OK. Got a problem here....
> 
> When I ordered my ZS10 from the official store on AE, I was gifted a pair of edr1 for free. They came in the white box clearly stating that they were edr1. I had to tear open the box as there is no way to open and close the box without tearing the cardboard seal. That pair of earphones has the vent hole in the front. I then ordered another set of edr1 w mic from amazon. That pair came in a black box and also has the vent hole in the front.
> 
> Possible the info is backwards? I see how a black box mixup could happen, but impossible for a white box mixup. BTW both edr1/edse phones I have sound the same, and both sound great. The edr2 I received was very lacking compared.



OK, lemme double check. It was late at night, maybe I got it backwards.


----------



## Slater

Slater said:


> OK, lemme double check. It was late at night, maybe I got it backwards.



Well, I just checked all of my EDR1s, both visually and listening. I even opened all of mine that were still sealed in the white boxes.

Sure enough, it appears KZ changed the location of the vent hole at some point. All of the old black cardboard boxed ones had the hole in the back. I have 2 in a new white box with the vent in the back. The rest of the EDR1s in white boxes have the vent in the front.

_So the vent hole is currently not a reliable way to tell the EDSE and EDR1 apart with 100% accuracy. It used to be, but no longer is._

Both vent locations are the same size and both are BEHIND the driver (ie bass vents), so there is no effect on the tuning of the EDR1 whatsoever. This is why the “old” and “new” EDR1s sound identical.

What’s different about the EDSE is not the vent hole itself, but rather the different driver used (or at least USED to be used).

@BadReligionPunk just posted above that his EDSE and EDR1 sound the same, so maybe KZ revised the EDSE at some point and started using the same drivers as the EDR1. Who knows?

And this is why KZ is so frustrating sometimes; because they quietly make changes to models, and it often becomes impossible to know what you’re buying.

So here’s the bottom line as far as I can tell:

1. If you receive an “EDR1” in an old black cardboard box, and it has the vent in the back of the shell (ie behind the wire strain), it is indeed an EDR1 and not an EDSE.

2. If you receive something that looks like an “EDR1” in an old black cardboard box, and it has the vent in the FRONT of the shell (ie forward of the wire strain), it is an EDSE and not an EDR1.

3. If you receive an “EDR1” in one of the new small white cardboard boxes, and it says “EDR1” on the front, it is an EDR1, regardless of where the vent hole is.




4. If you receive a “mystery” IEM loose in a ziplock baggie (ie no box), and it has the vent in the back (behind the wire strain), it is an EDR1. Because all EDSE had the vent hole in the front.

5. If you receive a “mystery” IEM loose in a ziplock baggie (ie no box), and it has the vent in the front (forward of the wire strain), it could be either an EDR1 or an EDSE. There is no way to know which you received.


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jun 9, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Saw online many people saying zsr is a great iem but i'm really afraid it can't be comfy for me.
> I didn't find comfy the zs3 so i dunno, maybe zsr are even bigger and could be annoying for my ear.
> Then i saw reviews about es4 and zsa and people say zsa is smaller and more comfy, but i can't really understand how the es4 is big.
> Now i'm seeing many people ordering the ed16.  I am really confused, confused because i don't wanna buy an iem that is not a definite step up from my memt x5v2




If you don't mind a bright IEM or are willing to EQ, ZS6 is still superior to all those. I can't talk about the ed16, haven't heard that one yet. I think the ES4 is overrated, maybe I got a defective one but it can certainly not handle fast and busy tracks, gets too congested for my taste.


----------



## nxnje

HerrXRDS said:


> If you don't mind a bright IEM or are willing to EQ, ZS6 is still superior to all those. I can't talk about the ed16, haven't heard that one yet. I think the ES4 is overrated, maybe I got a defective one but it can certainly not handle fast and busy tracks, gets too congested for my taste.


Heard may good things about em, the only problem is thay i have very small ears and some stuff like that would easily pop off. I saw zsa can be good but i see no reviewe about it with comparisons with maybe zsr, ed16, es4 and so on..


----------



## SoundSquare (Jun 9, 2018)

Bought some ZS6 last week, i've been listening to them extensively since then, and i'm utterly impressed. The iems i'm listening to at the moment are the Oriolus mk2, the A&K Beyerdynamic T8iE, Final FI-BA-SS, Onkyo E900M, Velvet V2 and Campfire Dorado, but i can't get my ears off the ZS6. After a few days i got used to the treble and it's far from being my most treblist iem, actually i love the treble,, and beautiful bass. I'm just shocked at the level of detail the ZS6 can deliver yet remaining a very fun iem, with this punchy bass, a beautifully done V-shaped signature. Incredible price for such quality.
I run it balanced on a Fiio X7 mk2 or an A&k Kann, the Kann being the best source from the two for these. I just thrashed the includied tips (but they are not that bad actually) and use some Symbio W tips.
Hook these beauties up with an AK DAC based DAP and close your eyes


----------



## Vestat

Got My ES4 today.
Just tried during a short trip on the train. Still no burn time or accurate listening.. just 1 hour on the train.
My personal impressions are compared to the ZS6 that I own and like kind of a lot.
- Slightly less punchy than ZS6
- Definitely less piercing than ZS6
- Slightly more deep (mid bass, fill bass or whatever you call that).
- WAY LESS DETAILED.. instrumental separation, definition, is nowhere close to ZS6. will update if burning changes something.
- Less wide soundstage, but still overall ok.

Considering the price of less than 15.. It's a bargain.
I still prefer ZS6 that, after a lot of time, is getting less piercing and is still delivering impressive detail and soundstage.. with some EQ of course.

ES4 needs little EQ and is very good out of the box.

Finally, I agree with most of other users opinion. I just feel much more detail and precision in ZS6. At the moment, ES4 sounds a bit confusing different frequencies.

One very good suprise is the size. It's small and fits perfectly in my ears. It's also very light and comfortable. Build quality is also good even if not as good as ZS6.

I repeat, costing 15 bucks is worth every penny.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Slater (Jun 9, 2018)

Vestat said:


> Got My ES4 today.
> Just tried during a short trip on the train. Still no burn time or accurate listening.. just 1 hour on the train.
> My personal impressions are compared to the ZS6 that I own and like kind of a lot.
> - Slightly less punchy than ZS6
> ...



I’m kinda glad I’ve held off on all of these new KZs. I am in love with my ZS6 and ZSR. From many of the opinions, I get the impression that the new models would be great for a new ChiFi owner. But for many of us that own numerous KZs, it’s just a sidegrade in a slightly different shaped shell (not that there’s anything wrong with that - the different shells are a great option for those that have fit issues with the ZSR, ZS6, ZS5 v1 etc).


----------



## HungryPanda

Then there is the QKZ  DM6 with the vent on the front


----------



## Deveraux

Just a really small impression about the ES4 from person not so familiar with audiophile terms :3

One word: It's overrated for sure. No doubt.

My ZS5 v1 sounds cleaner in the highs and the low ends got some good high quality feel to it which the ES4 lacks. v1 sounds a teeeny little more airier too (imaging?).

There's some slight hissing from the highs and cymbals like we hear in low bitrate music.

For some reason the ES4 fits tooo snug in my ears with the same tips I use on ZS5.

Definitely worth the 15$ including shipping.

It looks beautiful too!


ZS5 v1 is a GEM. Anybody who still has it, keeeep them!


My opinions are a lot in line with @Vestat . Although I feel both ES4 and ZS5 are both very similar sounding when EQed. ZS5 a little more cleaner.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> Then there is the QKZ  DM6 with the vent on the front



Hmmm, I wonder what the story on that one is? It's likely just repackaged EDR1 or EDSE. The question is - which one?


----------



## DocHoliday

SoundSquare said:


> Bought some ZS6 last week, i've been listening to them extensively since then, and i'm utterly impressed. The iems i'm listening to at the moment are the Oriolus mk2, the A&K Beyerdynamic T8iE, Final FI-BA-SS, Onkyo E900M, Velvet V2 and Campfire Dorado, but i can't get my ears off the ZS6. After a few days i got used to the treble and it's far from being my most treblist iem, actually i love the treble,, and beautiful bass. I'm just shocked at the level of detail the ZS6 can deliver yet remaining a very fun iem, with this punchy bass, a beautifully done V-shaped signature. Incredible price for such quality.
> I run it balanced on a Fiio X7 mk2 or an A&k Kann, the Kann being the best source from the two for these. I just thrashed the includied tips (but they are not that bad actually) and use some Symbio W tips.
> Hook these beauties up with an AK DAC based DAP and close your eyes



That's quite a compliment based on:

1) entertainment value 
2) perceived price-to-performance ratios.

Oriolus mk2 ($800)
A&K Beyerdynamic T8iE ($800)
Final FI-BA-SS ($1000)
Onkyo E900M ($450)
Velvet V2 ($800)
Campfire Dorado ($1000)
KZ ZS6 ($45)

I have no illusions if actually comparing the ZS6 to the IEMs mentioned above but I definitely think they are thoroughly entertaining and well worth the $45 asking price............and then some.



 

P.S. - Before long I should be posting a review of a modified ZS6.....just need more time to sort out it's sound signature.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Damn


DocHoliday said:


> That's quite a compliment based on:
> 
> 1) entertainment value
> 2) perceived price-to-performance ratios.
> ...


Damn. Those are beautiful. I have had a set in my wishlist . Just how crashy is the treble? Any chance you have listened to JVC FXT200 or Audio Technica CKM99 or CKS1000? All of those are too crashy for me despite me loving their sound sigs. I am old and my treble perception is a bit off, but sibilance of any kind usually gives me a headache within a few minutes.


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

mbwilson111 said:


> O
> 
> 
> I pull the outer part of the tip back so it is inside out with the sleeve  part sticking out.  Then after I wiggle the sleeve onto the nozzle, I pull the outer part back into place.


Thanks bro. Also, if I change the cable and connect the right to the left earphone, reverse, will it make a difference or not?


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> I’m kinda glad I’ve held off on all of these new KZs. I am in love with my ZS6 and ZSR. From many of the opinions, I get the impression that the new models would be great for a new ChiFi owner. But for many of us that own numerous KZs, it’s just a sidegrade in a slightly different shaped shell (not that there’s anything wrong with that - the different shells are a great option for those that have fit issues with the ZSR, ZS6, ZS5 v1 etc).


I think so too. If you have a ZS5 or 6 and the ZSR, there’s not really any need to sidestep to the KZ ZSA and ES4. The newbies aren’t necessarily better than the ZSR and in fact, although individual frequencies may sound better on the new ones, the ZSR just has this fun factor the ZSA and ES4 lack. 

Still: well worth your 15 euros. Everyone entering chifi will love them.


----------



## leetpuma (Jun 9, 2018)

Hey guys for anyone having trouble with kz6 (And potentially other kz models) fit you should try cutting out the wire and wearing them down (instead of over ear).

They are way more comfy this way for me. Before they were rubbing against my ears.
 All you need to do this a razor blade and plier/tweezers. When you get to the end where the plastic housing is you need to wiggle the wire back and forth until it snaps off.





Also I found that the KZ6 in this configuration work best with foam eartips (Like it makes a huge difference in sound and falling out of my ear)


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## Slater (Jun 9, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I pull the outer part of the tip back so it is inside out with the sleeve  part sticking out.  Then after I wiggle the sleeve onto the nozzle, I pull the outer part back into place.





VibrantHarmonics said:


> *Thanks bro*. Also, if I change the cable and connect the right to the left earphone, reverse, will it make a difference or not?



You mean sis (not bro)


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 10, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Damn
> 
> Damn. Those are beautiful. I have had a set in my wishlist . Just how crashy is the treble? Any chance you have listened to JVC FXT200 or Audio Technica CKM99 or CKS1000? All of those are too crashy for me despite me loving their sound sigs. I am old and my treble perception is a bit off, but sibilance of any kind usually gives me a headache within a few minutes.



Yeah, KZ took a big bite out of CA's apple, nevertheless, they look stunning.



 

I am probably the wrong person to ask regarding the 10khz treble spike because I don't have an issue with it but many people do.

I will say that the ZS6 is an IEM with extraordinary detail at it's price-point. The ZS6 leaves nothing on the table; you get absolutely everything from top to bottom. It's all there........in spades. If you tend to shy away from brighter sounding IEMs then you might want to pass on these......but they sound incredible for under $50. 

Of course you can always get a set and EQ any objectionable frequencies.


----------



## Zerohour88

crinacle said:


> And on the other side of the fence, KZ fanboys with zero critical listening ability and experience claiming that anyone who thinks that KZ is bad are bad themselves.
> 
> You don't have to believe me. Try the IEMs in the upper tiers and see for yourself (try a lot, don't pick and choose 1 or 2 that you don't like and form a straw man argument based on that). If it will EVER be possible, I can blind test an S tier IEM and pick it against a ZS5 10 out of 10 times. The differences are EXTREMELY obvious to a trained ear.
> 
> That said, I did try out a ZSR just now, and it was veeeery good. How good exactly on my list I'm not too sure, not enough listening time.



Haha, that's a bit unfair though. Even to my untrained ear, putting in a tier A IEM felt like a revelation, let alone S. I kinda wish you had some of the IEM on hand though, since I'd love a comparison between the Dita Answer and Massdrop Plus, the MD+ seems like killer value.


----------



## HungryPanda

VibrantHarmonics said:


> Thanks bro. Also, if I change the cable and connect the right to the left earphone, reverse, will it make a difference or not?


 only if you want to reverse channels


----------



## Slater (Jun 9, 2018)

leetpuma said:


> Hey guys for anyone having trouble with kz6 (And potentially other kz models) fit you should try cutting out the wire and wearing them down (instead of over ear).
> 
> They are way more comfy this way for me. Before they were rubbing against my ears.
> All you need to do this a razor blade and plier/tweezers. When you get to the end where the plastic housing is you need to wiggle the wire back and forth until it snaps off.
> ...



I just tried this and it works great! Very comfy! Also, as long as the cables are plugged correctly, the channels are NOT switched (ie you ignore the L/R markings on the shell, and make sure you plug in the L/R cables using the markings on the cables as a guide).

Nice job 

*The only thing I noticed is fitting them this way makes the fit much more shallow, which does affect sound in a noticeable way.* That's why you found the foam works better - they "grip" your ear canal better than silicone tips (that rely on insertion depth to lock them in place).

But hey, if you can't wear these IEMs otherwise (ie behind the ear) because of your individual ear anatomy, then wearing this way is a great alternative.

I suspect this trick would work on other KZs - ZS5, etc. You just have to watch the direction of the nozzles. Some KZs have nozzles with very extreme angles. You always want the nozzle pointing "forwards", so it fires towards your eardrum not away from it.


----------



## loomisjohnson (Jun 9, 2018)

Slater said:


> Well, I just checked all of my EDR1s, both visually and listening. I even opened all of mine that were still sealed in the white boxes.
> 
> Sure enough, it appears KZ changed the location of the vent hole at some point. All of the old black cardboard boxed ones had the hole in the back. I have 2 in a new white box with the vent in the back. The rest of the EDR1s in white boxes have the vent in the front.
> 
> ...



if you scroll back a thousand pages or so you'll see the edse was the go-to kz for a while. it's still a fun listen-- good for metal for edm, if not especially accurate. the edr2 is balanced and unusually refined for a cheapo, lacking only from a bit of high end extension. the edr1, however, is as slater opines the best of the three--it's actually very close to the urbanfun, albeit with a smaller stage.


----------



## sino8r

Speaking of ZS6s... I just got the ZSAs today. They sound extremely similar to the ZS6s. They have the wonderful highs (if you're into that) and good mids/lows. The only difference in sound that I've noticed is that the sound stage may be slightly smaller along with an extremely minor reduction in mids and bass (probably due to the smaller shells and having less drivers/ba) They definitely fit alot better than the ZS6 so if that's an issue, I highly recommend these. For the price, you can't really go wrong with these even if your ZS6s fit perfectly. I like them alot better than my ZS10s for sure.


----------



## stryed

sino8r said:


> Speaking of ZS6s... I just got the ZSAs today. They sound extremely similar to the ZS6s. They have the wonderful highs (if you're into that) and good mids/lows. The only difference in sound that I've noticed is that the sound stage may be slightly smaller along with an extremely minor reduction in mids and bass (probably due to the smaller shells and having less drivers/ba) They definitely fit alot better than the ZS6 so if that's an issue, I highly recommend these. For the price, you can't really go wrong with these even if your ZS6s fit perfectly. I like them alot better than my ZS10s for sure.



i wouldn't  be too happy with a loss of soundstage as it really makes the KZ5/6 stand out. Do you confirm that the KZ10 has a larger soundstage than the KZ6? If so, I wonder if EQing their shortcomings might be possible.
I'm waiting for something with better subass, same amount of soundstage & detail as the KZ5/6.


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## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 9, 2018)

I am back guys.....


Hahahhahahhaha


KZ es4 is plain better on mid detail retrieval compared to zs6. What you listen on zs6 is boosted harmonics and not  instrument detail. It is detailed on harmonics of instrument instead of instrument detail when listening to song.


Kz ed16 blew me up when I compared zsr. I think they tweaked the 4kHz dip here and made the sound so more energetic.



I can finally type here


----------



## crinacle

Zerohour88 said:


> Haha, that's a bit unfair though. Even to my untrained ear, putting in a tier A IEM felt like a revelation, let alone S. I kinda wish you had some of the IEM on hand though, since I'd love a comparison between the Dita Answer and Massdrop Plus, the MD+ seems like killer value.



I had to put those out there as a precaution because you know there are some people out there who can't hear the difference and equate that to KZ being godlike rather than their hearing being broken.


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## Slater (Jun 10, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> if you scroll back a thousand pages or so you'll see the edse was the go-to kz for a while. it's still a fun listen-- good for metal for edm, if not especially accurate. the edr2 is balanced and unusually refined for a cheapo, lacking only from a bit of high end extension. the edr1, however, is as slater opines the best of the three--it's actually very close to the urbanfun, albeit with a smaller stage.



Yeah, that's exactly when I bought my EDSE - back when the EDSE hype train was in full effect. It didn't help that they put the name "Special Edition" on the end. It was a genius marketing move haha

Like you said, it's not terrible by any means (the KZ ED4 holds that title). The EDSE just isn't as good as a few of the others in the ED series (EDR1, ED9, ED3 Perfection, EDR2, etc).


----------



## sino8r

stryed said:


> i wouldn't  be too happy with a loss of soundstage as it really makes the KZ5/6 stand out. Do you confirm that the KZ10 has a larger soundstage than the KZ6? If so, I wonder if EQing their shortcomings might be possible.
> I'm waiting for something with better subass, same amount of soundstage & detail as the KZ5/6.



It's a very minor soundstage loss imo. The ZS6 seems to have such a large one, minor loss is no biggie for me, personally. I'd say the ZS6 and ZS10 have a similar size soundstage while the big difference between the two is the toned down highs of the ZS10. The ZS6 has fairly good lows after properly seating them and adding comply or some of other foam tips. My problem is the ZS6s always end up moving a bit after 5 minutes or so, whether I'm stationary or not. I've tried various types of tips and sizes and always get similar results. That's when the lowers tend to disappear a bit. You can always experiment with partial front and rear vent covering with tape or something similar. ZSAs stay in place very well. Equalizing does help a bit but it really depends of the particular song or broadcast you're listening to. I generally leave my stuff flat by default and adjust per song if it sounds off. But yeah, I'd say the ZS10 doesn't have the detail of the ZS6 but does lack the sibilance. The ZSA does has minor sibilance though. The lows maybe a bit better in the ZS10. I like you have been looking for the detail of the ZS6 with better bass and think the ZSA does improve on the ZS6 but it could just be due to a better fit. All and all, it's a small improvement for me but not great. Maybe one of those 8 or 10 balanced armature models will improve on the ZS6 more completely but I have my doubts.


----------



## Slater

crinacle said:


> I had to put those out there as a precaution because you know there are some people out there who can't hear the difference and equate that to KZ being godlike rather than their hearing being broken.



I don't think there are people out there that *truly* feel that way. Are there? I mean, get serious it's a budget segment product.


----------



## Zerohour88

crinacle said:


> I had to put those out there as a precaution because you know there are some people out there who can't hear the difference and equate that to KZ being godlike rather than their hearing being broken.





Slater said:


> I don't think there are people out there that *truly* feel that way. Are there? I mean, get serious it's a budget segment product.



Honestly, I think both end of the spectrum exists. For every guy who thinks that KZ is garbage, there's another that feel KZ's the greatest thing since sliced bread. KZ's product is affordable so most can go out and buy one, then form an opinion on them regardless of their competence.


----------



## audionab

Zerohour88 said:


> Honestly, I think both end of the spectrum exists. For every guy who thinks that KZ is dog****, there's another that feel KZ's the greatest thing since sliced bread. KZ's product is affordable so most can go out and buy one, then form an opinion on them regardless of their competence.


*garlic bread <3


----------



## SoundSquare

Regarding those who may think the ZS6 has piercing highs (i think the highs are just right, i would complain myself about the bass being a bit slow at times) avoid silver plated cables, get a good OCC copper cable  

The most impressive thing for the ZS6 in my opinion is the lack of emphasis on the upper mids, something too common in chi-fi iems.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> Just tried my new *KZ ED16* (aka ZS7) for several hours.
> Organic, luscious, with plenty of details!...Wow! These are a serious "game changer" for KZ! I'll be burning them in for at least 100 hours before determining their status. I seriously have to try these against my beloved ZS5 to see if they are worthy of the KZ throne.
> -Clear


M`kay, now that I`ve ordered ES4, ED16 picked my interest too! Damn You! -.-


Deveraux said:


> Just a really small impression about the ES4 from person not so familiar with audiophile terms :3
> One word: It's overrated for sure. No doubt.
> My ZS5 v1 sounds cleaner in the highs and the low ends got some good high quality feel to it which the ES4 lacks. v1 sounds a teeeny little more airier too (imaging?).
> There's some slight hissing from the highs and cymbals like we hear in low bitrate music.
> ...


I have ZS5v1 and I agree - proper source and amping make them "TOTL" chi-fi budget to my ears.
But Your post about ES4 is rather negative and I was hoping it will be in "same tier as ZS5v1".


dhruvmeena96 said:


> I am back guys.....
> KZ es4 is plain better on mid detail retrieval compared to zs6. What you listen on zs6 is boosted harmonics and not  instrument detail. It is detailed on harmonics of instrument instead of instrument detail when listening to song.
> 
> Kz ed16 blew me up when I compared zsr. I think they tweaked the 4kHz dip here and made the sound so more energetic.


Another tease about ED16 but this time rather positive note @ ES4.


----------



## monitoringsound70

I own 2 of these at the moment  
ZSR and the ES3. 
Out of the two I definitely prefer the ES3. Lovely treble that's ever so slightly rolled off but dances in your ears. 
Only problem I have is a fit. I use old ultimate ears foam and they're the only tips that seal  but with those they are super. Although I'm gonna have a problem when the tips wear out. 

As for the ZSR the fit is much better....probably due to the longer nozzles, and I can actually use the stock tips on these. 
The cable on the left side has a tendency to keep coming out of the earpiece when I put them on.
Very loose connection in that side as the right is okay.  
As for sound.....i just find them a bit too clean. The extended treble is nice but is too much. Not sibilant but too clean. 
Definitely flatter sounding than the ES3 but just not as pleasant to listen to. 
Besides may return them as the cable connection to the earpiece  is a worry


----------



## Bartig

monitoringsound70 said:


> I own 2 of these at the moment
> ZSR and the ES3.
> Out of the two I definitely prefer the ES3. Lovely treble that's ever so slightly rolled off but dances in your ears.
> Only problem I have is a fit. I use old ultimate ears foam and they're the only tips that seal  but with those they are super. Although I'm gonna have a problem when the tips wear out.
> ...


Loose cable? Not sibilant? Flatter sounding? I don’t recognize any stuff you just wrote in my own ZSR. The ES3 must be quite a special earphone.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Bartig said:


> Loose cable? Not sibilant? Flatter sounding? I don’t recognize any stuff you just wrote in my own ZSR. The ES3 must be quite a special earphone.



It is. It's a lovely little thing.....Things


----------



## zazaboy

I heard only 2 people that says kz ed16 very good .. Has anyone here have any experience with this iem?


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## Francisk (Jun 10, 2018)

I have in the past disliked the treble spike on the ZS6 but I've finally found a very good use for the ZS6. It has been my favorite bedtime IEM (paired with the Comply foam tips) because it sounds amazing when it's played at low volume. Those treble spikes seem to tame down a lot when it's played at low volume and I can still hear the rest of the frequency spectrum very clearly, clear mids...right down to the bass region even when it's played at low volume. The ZS6 is now my go to IEM for low volume playback during bedtime. Try the ZS6 at low volume and let me know what you think.

Just like the ZS6 , I was not too impressed with the ZS10 initially but I've found the best use for my ZS10 (paired with Hifiman RE400 large bore silicone tips)...watching movies or listening to any audio material which has great slam and impact is really fun with ZS10...especially pounding percussive instruments. The ZS10 never fail to impress me with it's transient response and impact across the full frequency spectrum, even though the treble is more recessed than most of the KZ ZS series. Due to the slightly recessed high frequencies, the ZS10 likes to be played loud (not ear bleeding loudness of course),,,and it'll deliver all the slam and impact that you'll ever need, unlike the ZS6 which behaves better and perform very well when played soft,

Bottom line, there's really not a single bad KZ hybrid IEMs starting from ZST onward. I've discovered that each model actually excel in different ways. Since the ZS10 was my last KZ hybrid IEM, I'll be skipping the ZSA, ES4 and ED16 because I'm pretty much covered with my collection of ZST, ZS5v1, ZS6 and ZS10. I'm waiting for the new KZ with 5 BAs per side. I hope the new model will further improve on the ZS10.


----------



## Bartig

Francisk said:


> I have in the past disliked the treble spike on the ZS6 but I've finally found a very good use for the ZS6. It has been my favorite bedtime IEM (paired with the Comply foam tips) because it sounds amazing when it's played at low volume. Those treble spikes seem to tame down a lot when it's played at low volume and I can still hear the rest of the frequency spectrum very clearly, clear mids...right down to the bass region even when it's played at low volume. The ZS6 is now my go to IEM for low volume playback during bedtime. Try the ZS6 at low volume and let me know what you think.
> 
> Just like the ZS6 , I was not too impressed with the ZS10 initially but I've found the best use for my ZS10 (paired with Hifiman RE400 large bore silicone tips)...watching movies or listening to any audio material which has great slam and impact is really fun with ZS10...especially pounding percussive instruments. The ZS10 never fail to impress me with it's transient response and impact across the full frequency spectrum, even though the treble is more recessed than most of the KZ ZS series. Due to the slightly recessed high frequencies, the ZS10 likes to be played loud (not ear bleeding loudness of course),,,and it'll deliver all the slam and impact that you'll ever need, unlike the ZS6 which behaves better and perform very well when played soft,
> 
> Bottom line, there's really not a single bad KZ hybrid IEMs starting from ZST onward. I've discovered that each model actually excel in different ways. Since the ZS10 was my last KZ hybrid IEM, I'll be skipping the ZSA, ES4 and ED16 because I'm pretty much covered with my collection of ZST, ZS5v1, ZS6 and ZS10. I'm waiting for the new KZ with 5 BAs per side. I hope the new model will further improve on the ZS10.


I wouldn’t say each KZ ‘excels’ in one way or another. But every KZ sure is a treat for everyone jumping from western cheap IEMs to chifi. 

And some of the KZ’s are just really, really good.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> I don't think there are people out there that *truly* feel that way. Are there? I mean, get serious it's a budget segment product.



I agree wholeheartedly. We all know KZ can't compete with Shure, Campfire Audio, etc. They are far from God's earphones or whatever that dudes analogy was. They are budget phones that have some models that sound as good as $200 bigger name models. To me, that's pretty impressive. KZ has fun with their phones and while some claim that they're are ripoffs, I'd call them homage pieces. They're for people who'd rather spend several hundred dollars on school books, bills, and even a small vacation while still getting a good sounding earphone experience. Nothing more or nothing less. To say that our hearing is broken is humorous, really. I've had some experience with 1000 dollar earphones and wasn't impressed for the price. Unless you're a professional musician or something, it's a giant waste of money imo.


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## Slater

monitoringsound70 said:


> I own 2 of these at the moment
> ZSR and the ES3.
> Out of the two I definitely prefer the ES3. Lovely treble that's ever so slightly rolled off but dances in your ears.
> Only problem I have is a fit. I use old ultimate ears foam and they're the only tips that seal  but with those they are super. Although I'm gonna have a problem when the tips wear out.
> ...



No need to return, you have some alternative options:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2202#post-14281758​
Here's more clarification on tweaks to the cable pins (which I recommend) and also to the female socket (unnecessary IMO):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2204#post-14283695​
Use a TRN or modified KZ 8-braid upgrade cable with longer pins (which I recommend):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2216#post-14291675​


----------



## monitoringsound70

Slater said:


> No need to return, you have some alternative options:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2202#post-14281758​
> Here's more clarification on tweaks to the cable pins (which I recommend) and also to the female socket (unnecessary IMO):
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2204#post-14283695​
> ...



Thanks bud. I'll try those options


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## Adide (Jun 12, 2018)

Hey guys.

Eventually the tides decided to flush my presale zs10 on home shores after shamelessly long days so my impressions follow.

Source: lg v30 forced in aux mode (amp in intermediate gain level), non-stock wide bores, trn black cable, tidal hifi.

Oob: sounded good, nothing seemed off (polarity ok and so on). Left them burn in overnight to loosen the dd (past experiences showed me that could happen).

Took them to work next day and got pissed off by the upper mids-lower trebble emphasis which made them sound harsh and unnatural.

Scrached my head on what to do next and decided to try the old proven scientific methods: incense burning, prayer chanting and more burn in. Left them burning in a few more dozen hours to appease the gods.

Today did an a/b against my old and tried zs5v1 (mind you I'm one of those strange guys liking zs5v1 very much and thinking is great balanced u shaped very detailed iem hence for many I might be off from the start).

Bass: zs10 better than zs5 with more sub-bass and more texture. Tasteful mid-bass hump and no bleeds. Good speed.
Mids: zs10 is more forward (close to level I'd say) and more detailed. Peak previously observed in upper mids seems to have gone 90% so gods must have favored my deeds. Seriously can't explain this, it's ok now.
Trebble: problem for zs10. It seems to have some upper spectrum recession which for instance makes strings playing upper notes sound synthetic (see Paco de Lucia - Beyond the Mirage). Zs5 is a beast here, everything sounds natural like you're there and instruments have a lot of air and feel nimble, a feeling which zs10 lacks. Something to do with higher order harmonics reproduction I suspect.
Sounstage, layering, separation: zs10 win, win, win. Due to that it manages to produce that 3d holographic soundstage in well mastered recordings.
Coherency: my amateurish ears cannot distinguish flagrant issues reported by others.

Now I'll keep banging zs10 against zs5 for a while because I really want their baby and maybe it's gonna happen.

Frankly I have mixed feelings with zs10 because their trebble is such a let down compared to the rest. Maybe I'll learn to love them. Or maybe not and sell them. Will also try some additional cable swapping maybe. Will see.

That's it folks, I hope this will help at least the zs5v1 loving tribe.
Will report if any breakthrough with the trebble or if zs10 will start having morning sickness.

Cheers.

Edit for consistency - I've found the lost upper mids-lower treble hyper energy: it's in the volume and I've naturally found it while turning up the volume in the subway. Makes the iem sound unnatural, strident, shouty, harsh, fatiguing. A real shame, these cannot stay. Off to the local classifieds they go.


----------



## zazaboy

@dhruvmeena96  do you think its the best kz so far about the kz ed16? everyone praising it or is it just a hype? does it have good soundstage with instrument accuracy?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 10, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> @dhruvmeena96  do you think its the best kz so far about the kz ed16? everyone praising it or is it just a hype? does it have good soundstage with instrument accuracy?



There has been no "hype" about the ED16.  Just three or four people saying that they are good.  I don't think many people have it yet.  I really enjoy mine but I never said everyone should rush out and get one.

Yes, the soundstage actually is phenomenal.  Yes the instruments sound accurate to me.  Will you love it? I have no idea.  Will everyone love it?  Of course not.  Nothing is perfect for everyone.

Best KZ so far?  Zazaboy, go ahead and try one yourself and you tell us the answer.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

The Gearbest sales page says the EDR1 has been discontinued.

https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216168.html?wid=21


----------



## Superluc

Someone say that the ES4 sound cohesive and harsh free, but sometimes congested. How that compare with actual ATE/ATR models ?


----------



## Adide

Some speculation to talk about: I believe that as kz flagships become more complex they will also become more inconsistent and will be a draw of luck to pick a good one.

I mean there are a lot of inexpensive components going in now with I assume rather large tolerances (being cheap) which can add up in changing the sound drastically (resistors, capacitors, multiple BAs and so on). Maybe that's why zs10 has some wildly varied impressions that are beyond our ears, brains and sources used.

I believe that while breaking new territories with inexpensive multidrivers kz is about to shoot themselves in the foot (for demanding listeners at least) in the effort of keeping low prices with mediocre qc.

I'm really reluctant about the new multi ba and will wait for a serious ammount of reports from the old dogs around here before thinking about pulling the trigger. And if it's in the $80 territory as rumoured I probably won't anyway. To scared to get a dud for that much cash with almost zero support from the company.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 10, 2018)

.


----------



## zazaboy

mbwilson111 said:


> There has been no "hype" about the ED16.  Just three or four people saying that they are good.  I don't think many people have it yet.  I really enjoy mine but I never said everyone should rush out and get one.
> 
> Yes, the soundstage actually is phenomenal.  Yes the instruments sound accurate to me.  Will you love it? I have no idea.  Will everyone love it?  Of course not.  Nothing is perfect for everyone.
> 
> Best KZ so far?  Zazaboy, go ahead and try one yourself and you tell us the answer.



I dont want a sidegrade.. I am searching for a upgrade .. but sure I will try soon after some more people got it..


----------



## zazaboy

yeah gearbest doesnt sell the edr1 anymore bummer man was really cheap ... kz ate is another alternative


----------



## Slater (Jun 10, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The Gearbest sales page says the EDR1 has been discontinued.
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_216168.html?wid=21



That's only specifically from the seller "BoMinH".

Gearbest is kind of like Amazon now - they are selling some things direct from their own inventory (like the old days of Gearbest), but they have allowed 3rd party sellers to come in and sell through Gearbest. Those 3rd party sellers may have different prices and different inventory levels than Gearbest.

KZ is actively producing it. You can buy loads of them on Aliexpress, ebay, Amazon, and loads of other ecommerce sites.


----------



## Slater (Jun 10, 2018)

zazaboy said:


> I dont want a sidegrade.. I am searching for a upgrade .. but sure I will try soon after some more people got it..



If you want an upgrade, get the CA Andromeda. It will be the last IEM you'll ever buy. Then you won't have to worry about every new model of every IEM that comes down the pipe, gets hyped, is potentially a let down, etc.

It literally destroys every low and midrange ChiFi IEM that you ask about. One and done.


----------



## zazaboy

I will wait till KZ makes better iem then ca andromeda


----------



## audionab

zazaboy said:


> I will wait till KZ makes better iem then ca andromeda


the wait would be really long
good luck


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

So I have seen people ask for this info in the past, and thought I would share it...

_*"How do I remove the words/text/label/logo from my IEM?"*_

For example:
​
Sometimes you can use solvents - acetone, denatured alcohol, lacquer thinner, etc. That doesn't always work though. And often it can 'melt' the plastic, 'craze' or cloud the finish, etc. In addition, if any gets into a vent hole or the nozzle it can ruin the IEM.

You could also wet sand it, but that’s messy, slow, works best for totally flat surfaces, and like the solvent I don’t want to risk getting liquid in a vent hole or the nozzle and ruining my IEM.

Well, the following is the method I now use, and it is far faster and easier than trying different solvents or wet sanding. It works perfectly every time, and does not risk damaging the finish like some solvents can do.

I borrowed the idea from how many of the faceplates on CEIMs are finished. Ever wondered how they get the faceplates to look to shiny and good? Well, this is how many of the builders do it.

​
What you do is get a collection of the rectangular 'sanding blocks' used to finish nails. They have a stiff sponge core, with a sandpaper-like gritty material bonded to the outside of the sponge. The sponge is stiff enough to allow them to be easily held and used, and soft enough to allow them to conform to the curves of IEMs. Most measure ~1.5x1.5" wide, with an overall length of ~4" long.

You can get them from a local beauty supply store (I got mine from a nationwide chain of stores called Sally's Beauty Supply). You can also order them on Amazon, ebay, Aliexpress, etc. Your significant other may already have some (just ask). You could also walk into any nail salon or full service spa type place and nicely ask (they'll probably give you some old ones for free).

Anyways, they are available in various grits, like sandpaper. I got a coarse grit (usually white), a medium grit (almost always yellow), a fine grit (black), and a 'buff and shine block'. The Buff and Shine blocks are double sided, with 1 side an ultra fine (grey on mine) and the other side a final buffing side (white on mine). They are incredibly cheap - all of mine were $1.20 each, and the Buff and Shine block was under $3. Thsy are 1/3 of that on Aliexpress! They last a long time and can be used on numerous IEMs, so it is a cheap investment. The soft plastic dust can be blown/washed/cleaned out of the pores, making them able to theoretically last forever.

Here's what they look like (from left to right - coarse, medium, fine, buffing side of the buffing block);
​
Here's the ultra-fine side of the buffing block:
​
To use them all you do is hold the IEM in 1 hand (I leave a silicone eartip on so it is easy to hold), and gently sand the face plate like you are filing fingernails. Very little pressure is needed. You start with the coarse grit (until the writing is completely removed), then move to finer and finer grits (medium, fine, ultra-fine). Any dust can be blown off with your mouth, or canned air, or you can even just wipe the dust off with a soft cloth/your shirt/etc. Finally, you finish it with the buffing side. The result will be a glassy smooth and crystal clear finish. The total process takes about 5 minutes per IEM.

Here's what the KZ ZST looked like in-progress (I think this was when I was down to the fine grit (ie the 3rd out of 5th step):
​
Here's the final result, after buffing with the buff side of the block:

​
Here's a side-by-side comparison, showing the dramatic difference achieved from those last few steps:
​
Once I was done with the KZ ZST, I went ahead and busted out a pair of KZ ZS3:
​
This method is ideal for other plastic IEMs like the KZ ZSR, ES3, ES4, ED12, ED16, ATE, ATR, QKZ KD4, iRock i8, NiceHCK Bro, and hundreds of others. The IEM doesn't even have to be transparent. It works just as well on solid-colored IEMs, like the white/black/red ZSR (and my glossy black ZS3).

I would NOT do it to any IEM that has any sort of coating (rubberized or anti-sweat 'nano' coatings). I would also not use this method on painted IEMs (like the original silver-painted KZ ATE). Nor the original ZS3 with the matte finish. Also, like any mod, I am not responsible in any way for YOUR actions and YOUR gear.

Here's a sad fact - a number of IEMs (like some KZ models) have the text printed sideways and even upside-down (on every one, not a QC fluke). Why I have no idea, as it looks dumb IMO (who OKs these decisions?!?)
​
My final piece of advice specifically pertains to IEMs that have the words "Left" and "Right" printed on them (like the ZS3 and ZSR for example). Once you remove the text, it becomes harder to tell the sides apart. In that case I simply use the sharp point of something like a tungsten carbide scribe, scratch awl, the tip of a sewing needle, etc and scratch/etch and small "L" and "R" on each earpiece in an inconspicuous place. On some IEMs, there is already a tiny L/R printed on the earpiece in another spot (usually right by the cable). Therefore, you only need to do this step on IEMs that don't have any channel identifiers located anywhere else.

Here's an example of the "R" I added to the KZ ZST (small and very inconspicuous, but large enough to see when I look for it):
​
Enjoy!


----------



## dhruvmeena96

zazaboy said:


> @dhruvmeena96  do you think its the best kz so far about the kz ed16? everyone praising it or is it just a hype? does it have good soundstage with instrument accuracy?



KZ ed16 fixes the zsr 4kHz dip making the cavernous sound a little like a open field(removing walls from soundstage)

And little bit of bass is dropped for cleaner presentation.

Soundstage is huge but not like zsr huge. Its better than zs10 though.

And most bearable treble KZ hybrid iem after es4.


All others were sharp and artificial... These series are better.

ZS10 is not that good actually.. These beats zs10 in every department


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> I opened my ED9 right side backplate/grill (it is easy to remove and will go back easily and firmly). No change in sound. Basically...
> 
> * it is "fully open" design. That`s why it has so good soundstage and airiness.
> I can see through the driver when looked against light from one end when nozzle and backplate are removed.
> ...


That is not open back design but pressure relieving ports.  


LoL


That won't change the sound, just some bass distortion falls giving a little open back type sound


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 10, 2018)

Regarding the ZSR:



monitoringsound70 said:


> As for sound.....i just find them a bit too clean. The extended treble is nice but is too much. Not sibilant but too clean.



I bet if you increase the size of the eartip then the increased low impact will sully the sound. If you already wear large then try XL eartips. 

https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-Pl...Replacement-Earphone/dp/B015UG6JHG?th=1&psc=1



Francisk said:


> the ZS6...........paired with the Comply foam tips.......... sounds amazing when it's played at low volume. Those treble spikes seem to tame down a lot when it's played at low volume and I can still hear the rest of the frequency spectrum very clearly, clear mids...right down to the bass region even when it's played at low volume.



Your post supports my firm position that it is NOT necessary - or safe for that matter - to crank up the volume past moderate levels for balanced armature IEMs (barring those with severe sensitivity issues). You rarely hear DD's described as clinical but BA's are repeatedly described as such. I interpret "clinical" as extremely precise (like a scalpel). BA's are quite adept at presenting absolutely everything at moderate volume levels so listening to hybrid IEMs or full-fledged BA IEMs at full blast is not only doing one's ears a disservice but also the "impressions" threads because such contributions paint an illegitimate portrait and subsequently skew an overall consensus.

Bottom line: 

For BA's, moderate volume levels should be sufficient to hear everything from top to bottom with exceptional clarity.


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I opened my ED9 right side backplate/grill (it is easy to remove and will go back easily and firmly)...



Speaking of this, I never shared this cool little cosmetic mod I did to my ED9 a couple of years ago.

When you pop off the back plate (which pops off easily using a sewing needle), you can flip it around and reinstall it backwards. It gives the ED9 a little more unique/personalized look compared to everyone else's ED9. It also looks more "open backed" (which is of course is only an optical illusion)

The mesh itself is sandwiched between 2 pieces of ultra-thin metal, so it has no danger of falling off when it's reinstalled in the backwards position. Both the mesh and the metal face plate is just as tight and secure in either position.

Before:

​
After:
​


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DocHoliday said:


> Regarding the ZSR:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sort of true and false.

BA does tend to bare everything, due to its sensitivity to signal change and diaphragm too small.


But the path it passes through is a compressed plate, causing flat overtone creating impulse mismatch.

Impulse is main factor for any iem to sound nice.

Etymotic er4sr vs any dynamic driver earphone tuned neutral by ety standard

Dynamic will sound better and stage naturally compared to BA, just that BA will have more speed.

KZ zs6 doesn't do both job correctly.


Dynamic hit pressure is too high compared to zs5. Zs5 damped one driver with some nylon to reduce canal pressure on front end.

Second is, for god sake who puts two BA on parallel without damping and resistance and then shift harmonic to 10kHz.


Guys this is not detail, its harmonic of details. All sound starts from 100Hz and end at 1.8kHz

Something before and after these frequency are just harmonic( some say colouring).

After 1.8kHz is how instrument will sound like and in 1.8khz it is what is that instrument.


So boosted 10kHz is just artificial detail for non treble heads and is nightmare for normal people.


----------



## Strat Rider (Jun 11, 2018)

Regarding the EDR1, I ordered a pair from the KZ "official" store on AE last night, didn't see any mention of them being discontinued.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> Speaking of this, I never shared this cool little ED9 mod I did to mine a couple of years ago.
> 
> When you pop off the back plate (which pops off easily using a sewing needle), you can flip it around and reinstall it backwards. It gives the ED9 a little more unique/personalized look compared to everyone else's ED9. It also looks more "open backed" (which is of course is only an optical illusion)
> 
> ...



Cool! 

Never thought of that.

It actually looks better, too.

Have you tried this with the black ED9 yet?


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Cool!
> 
> Never thought of that.
> 
> ...



I don’t have a black ED9 yet. I only have 2 silver ones.

I do have a black one on the way though, as I wanted to check out the revised driver rumor. Once the black one arrives, I’ll test the mod out and report back. It should be here any day.

I have a feeling the back side of the cover on the black one won’t even be painted (or will be partially painted with overspray). They usually don’t paint surfaces you’ll never see. If you open the hood of 95% of cars and remove the heat insulation, you’ll see that the underside of the hood under the heat insulation isn’t even painted at all! Same thing under the carpet of your car. No one ever sees it, so they don’t bother painting it. What about the reverse side of the drywall in your house (ie the side facing the studs)? No one sees it, so why waste the paint? 

The silver one is chrome plated; that’s why the back side of the cover has the same polished chrome surface as the front (electro plating covers everything due to being immersed in a chemical plating bath).


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> Regarding the EDR1, I ordered a pair from the KZ "official" store on AE last night, didn't see any mention of them being discontinued.



They’re not discontinued. That rumor is false.

KZ is actively manufacturing them.

Sure, that could change down the road (and they truly could be discontinued in X years), but the same thing could be said about every IEM they make (ZS10, ZSR, ED16, blah blah).


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> They’re not discontinued. That rumor is false.
> 
> KZ is actively manufacturing them.
> 
> Sure, that could change down the road (and they truly could be discontinued in X years), but the same thing could be said about every IEM they make (ZS10, ZSR, ED16, blah blah).


Actually they improved ED9 from driver side....


I have old and new model and they sound very different. Newer model is way cleaner


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Pure open back fun


Slater and open back goes way back lol

Can you tell the difference


DocHoliday said:


> Cool!
> 
> Never thought of that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Actually they improved ED9 from driver side....
> 
> I have old and new model and they sound very different. Newer model is way cleaner



That’s why I ordered a new black one (reports of improved sound from a different driver).



dhruvmeena96 said:


> Can you tell the difference



After I turned the grille backwards, everything I listen to on the ED9 plays in reverse!


http://www.ecollegetimes.com/5-famous-backwards-messages-on-records
http://www.dallasobserver.com/music...idden-messages-when-played-in-reverse-7081541
http://www.vh1.com/news/52612/15-songs-satanic-backwards-messages/


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> That's only specifically from the seller "BoMinH".
> 
> Gearbest is kind of like Amazon now - they are selling some things direct from their own inventory (like the old days of Gearbest), but they have allowed 3rd party sellers to come in and sell through Gearbest. Those 3rd party sellers may have different prices and different inventory levels than Gearbest.
> 
> KZ is actively producing it. You can buy loads of them on Aliexpress, ebay, Amazon, and loads of other ecommerce sites.


Thanks for the info. It better be good. I have 30 other pairs of budget headphones for it to beat.


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks for the info. It better be good. I have 30 other pairs of budget headphones for it to beat.



I don't know what 30 IEMs you have, but the EDR1 is not some giant killer that's going to beat everything under the sun. It is, however, the best IEM under $5 hands down (and I would also argue the best under $10 MSRP as well).

Its sound is crisp, fun, energetic, and v-shaped with a wide dynamic. It's build quality is tough as nails, and once you factor in the dirt cheap price it will seem downright unbelievable how you got such performance for such a low cost.

I don't like the stock tips (I use Auvio wide bores on 1 pair and Starlines on another). You can also improve sound slightly by swapping the stock red nozzle screens for stainless screens (or just running with no screens at all, as it's a $3 IEM and big whoop if something happens to it in a few years).

But it's not perfect. It has a few minor flaws, it's not neutral, not mid forward, not ideal for classical, and doesn't walk on water. It won't make coffee or increase your car's MPG. It's just a da*n good $5-$10 IEM, plain and simple. As long as people look at it within that context, they will be extremely happy with it.

It's the oldest IEM that KZ is still manufacturing to this day (2013-current), and according to KZ they've sold at least 1 million of them (which that sales figure is outdated by a few *years*). That says a lot right there.

You can now buy it as cheap as $2.60, which makes it a no-brainer IEM that should be in every ChiFi collection. $2.60 won't even buy you a Big Mac or decent pint of beer.

KZ summed up the EDR1 perfectly:

_"*This time*, it is doomed from the headset off the suspect out of the field parameters missing."_​
Who can argue with such a bold statement?


----------



## trumpethead

Slater said:


> OK, I got this all squared away with the seller. They are EDR1. They sent me a photo of the new style white box (that clearly says EDR1). If you buy the 5 pack, they simply remove them from the white boxes and put them in 1 larger box.
> 
> I bought qty 10, and the seller even threw in one of the new KZ Pelican-style ABS storage boxes, as I've been wanting one of those for a while now (which is worth $6 if you factor in shipping)!
> 
> ...



Link to seller please....also I hope they would keep them in the white boxes. It would ruin the new item unboxing experience for me lol


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> That’s why I ordered a new black one (reports of improved sound from a different driver).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What

9D

LoL


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

trumpethead said:


> Link to seller please....also I hope they would keep them in the white boxes. It would ruin the new item unboxing experience for me lol



Just search for KZ Global Store on Aliexpress, or look back a few pages for where the direct link was already posted. You can also use the HeadFi search function in the upper right corner.

As far as the boxing situation, that’s something you need to work out with the seller.

They told me for qty 1 they send the white box, and for the 3 or 5 qtys they put them all in 1 larger box. That’s not all that uncommon. It helps keep shipping costs down, eliminates wasteful packaging, and uses less fuel during transit which reduces the carbon footprint.

FYI, there’s no real unboxing “experience” with the small KZ packages lol. The EDR1/2 are in the same small white boxes as the KZ silver upgrade and Bluetooth cables. It’s a 2.5”X2.5” square box, and 1/2” thick. There’s barely room insude for the upgrade cables, much less a whole IEM. You tear a little zip strip, and your IEM is stuffed in a little baggie inside, then you throw away the baggie and box. That’s it. No Apple-esque unboxing experience, no clear plastic window to see the contents, no custom molded foam holder, fancy magnetic box flaps, velvet pull tabs, or gold foil embossing.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> That’s why I ordered a new black one (reports of improved sound from a different driver).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


where's the best place to get the updated ed9?


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> where's the best place to get the updated ed9?



I found them for about the same cost on both eBay and Aliexpress (~$11).

As far as guaranteeing the new version, my thought process was like this - the silver was the original version. Since the driver is an internal change, it can’t be seen by the seller from a strictly physical appearance. So ordering another silver pair would be a crap shoot.

The black color, however, came much later (I could be mistaken though). Anyways, I figured that was when they switched to the new driver. That’s why I ordered a black one.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Regarding ED9 changes, here is my old (silver) vs. new (black).


 

If you look closely, you can barely see that the plate behind the grill on the new driver has a single, centralized port vs. the numerous smaller ports on the older model. I don't think they sound completely different, but the new one unquestionably sounds better.

The filters themselves have also seen some mild changes. The gold colored ones now have a smaller opening with a steeper flare. The port covered by the filter sticker on the brass nozzles is ever so slightly larger.


----------



## zazaboy

@B9Scrambler I see that you like the kz zsa do you recommend them?


----------



## trumpethead

Slater said:


> Just search for KZ Global Store on Aliexpress, or look back a few pages for where the direct link was already posted. You can also use the HeadFi search function in the upper right corner.
> 
> As far as the boxing situation, that’s something you need to work out with the seller.
> 
> ...



I gotcha, I misunderstood, sounded like they opened the white boxes took out the iem and put them in one box..lol...Man I Love the edr1 original. Gotta get me some more at that price!! Thanks again!!


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2018)

trumpethead said:


> I gotcha, I misunderstood, sounded like they opened the white boxes took out the iem and put them in one box..lol...Man I Love the edr1 original. Gotta get me some more at that price!! Thanks again!!



They did open the small white KZ boxes, take out the IEMs, and repackage them all in 1 larger, non-KZ box (where they would all fit).

Or do you mean you misunderstood because you thought they were going to try and cram all 5 inside of the same dinky KZ white box? If so, that’s physically impossible - the box would just burst open at the seams like Chris Farley doing his “fat guy in a little coat” routine LOL


----------



## B9Scrambler

zazaboy said:


> @B9Scrambler I see that you like the kz zsa do you recommend them?



Yup, without hesitation. They're fantastic.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 11, 2018)

KZ ed9 and jomo audio Hakka nozzle


B9Scrambler said:


> Yup, without hesitation. They're fantastic.


Too much metal reverb on bass sounds coloured but they still maintain neutrality.

Just metallic subbass(reverby) otherwise it is good from mid bass till treble.


Metallic subbass means it stops at wrong time.. Subbass decay a lot(the sub bass I am talking about is the end of line 20Hz to 40hz.


Just this issue otherwise it is amazing pair.

@Slater

KZ ed9 has a lot of secret on tuning. If you see the tuning nozzles, they are in shape of horn which makes me remember jomo audio haka, plus they are more linear to center of driver. Secondly, the bass pressure reliever is actually well designed and cleans the bass.


I auditioned new ed9, they sound amazing on balanced nozzles, more open and clear on treble area and little more leaner bass which makes mids even more clean.

But fall short in front brainwavz jive modded. My subbass extendes just too deep while maintaining the linearity and timing perfection. They sound less tall and wide compared to ED9 but depth takes the lead to jive. Both are holographic. Jive gives 3D ness outside of head while ED9 sounds like helmet of sound(not near and not far) but with more open back nature of impulse which was nice to hear

And yes, new ED9 is way quicker on driver on decay. Jive is even more quicker.

Its better than muddy ATE which most people love on this thread. Yes, all single driver KZ are muddy compared to new ED9


Somebody told me that KZ started making all the new things in their own newly acquired factory, instead of getting parts done from other people, which is a trend in china.

They started doing the right things...


Now, I want them to get inspired from final audio and then deliver us something tuned just amazing


----------



## loomisjohnson

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup, without hesitation. They're fantastic.


b9 et al: sizewise, how do the zsa and ed16 compare to the zsr? are they a significantly smaller form factor?


----------



## B9Scrambler

dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ ed9
> 
> Too much metal reverb on bass sounds coloured but they still maintain neutrality.
> *Just metallic subbass(reverby) *otherwise it is good from mid bass till treble.
> ...



I don't hear that but I also don't care, lol. Plain and simple, they're enjoyable to listen to regardless of any flaws which are to be expected at this price. I don't hold KZ to the same unrealistic standards as many in these forums. Mine are much lower, yet most chi-fi manufacturers fail to meet them, hence why I still put my money down on this brand over any other.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

B9Scrambler said:


> I don't hear that but I also don't care, lol. Plain and simple, they're enjoyable to listen to regardless of any flaws which are to be expected at this price. I don't hold KZ to the same unrealistic standards as many in these forums. Mine are much lower, yet most chi-fi manufacturers fail to meet them, hence why I still put my money down on this brand over any other.


True, but you know my ear itch every time I use iem or headphone..I am a very nasty critic.


Well anybody who ask about ZSA, yes @B9Scrambler is right and you will enjoy. They are not accurate but more of fun sounding but still remains its tightness overall.

Enjoy


----------



## dhruvmeena96

loomisjohnson said:


> b9 et al: sizewise, how do the zsa and ed16 compare to the zsr? are they a significantly smaller form factor?


Well you asked b9.... Sorry for answering

ZSA is small and cute...they just look big in picture but are very small.

Ed16 is longer and less fat compared to zsr.

Zsr bulges outward from ear, ed16 looks more flat and more acceptable.

Some confuse ed16 to be Fender iem without screws in india


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> b9 et al: sizewise, how do the zsa and ed16 compare to the zsr? are they a significantly smaller form factor?



  ​Pics don't do it justice. The ZSA is puny.

*Edit: Don't have the ED16.*


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 11, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> b9 et al: sizewise, how do the zsa and ed16 compare to the zsr? are they a significantly smaller form factor?



I posted a few pages back some photos of the ED16 with the ZSR and the ZS10... they were in a spoiler so maybe you did not notice them:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2196#post-14276068

the ED16 lies flat in my ear but that might not be the case with everyone


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Wa


B9Scrambler said:


> ​Pics don't do it justice. The ZSA is puny.
> 
> *Edit: Don't have the ED16.*



Way to puny.....


----------



## loomisjohnson

mbwilson111 said:


> I posted a few pages back some photos of the ED16 with the ZSR and the ZS10... they were in a spoiler so maybe you did not notice them:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2196#post-14276068
> 
> the ED16 lies flat in my ear but that might not be the case with everyone


thanks mb


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Coming home by diddy dirty money DXD format review comparision

KZ ES4- scaled on my Benchmark media DAC-3 HGC to highest limit( nothing can go above Benchmark DAC). Man, these scaled to the limit.... Sound was like open ground and people played for you. No reverb no congestion but cymbal sounded splashy and bass drum took some lead here and there. No warmth actually and no thick notes, they are presented with perfect weight.

KZ ZS10- sorry, no.....they were sometimes congestion some times clean. It can handle slow songs only with perfect mastery. Complex song and phase shift is easy to detect

Brainwavz Jive Nodded with ed9 balanced tuner nozzle foam and comply foam( dampen the 5kHz glare which itself didn't decayed so without mod it was hearable and ejoyable)-

SubBass boosted from 50hz till your subbass hearing capability can go and above 50hz it showed complete neutrality till it reached 5kHz and here magic happen, its slope was dampened and all treble was smooth and due to some reason my ear resonance 6.5kHz was dampened due to foam and comply. Comparing to ES4, it has less warmth but more subbass presence which sounds like dita answer truth edition and treble was like shure se215 but more cleaner( smooth and warm), less aggressive and coloured than es4 but less on imaging and height of soundstage( i think people here don't know about soundscape and stage difference, so staging word is cool)

ED9 new- open back wonder. This song sounded like IMAX experience but less bass. Something like final lab II from old ipod but more muddy(I am yes, comparing to final lab ii) and more closed but still huge for iem costing 11$...

But when ES4 came into play, the noticeable difference was little more wide and cleaner treble and detailed mids. But overall soundstage was somehow smaller compared to ED9. Jive thwarted both on detailing and treble, but sacrificed on width..


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 11, 2018)

@loomisjohnson I know you have the fidue a73 so  here is a picture of the ed16 with the fidue a73

I often use medium Starlines with IEMs but for some reason I needed the large Starliine with the ED16.  The Fidue has a medium RHA tip on it...partially chosen for the look

due to complaints I have put the photos in a spoiler



Spoiler


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> @loomisjohnson I know you have the fidue a73 so  here is a picture of the ed16 with the fidue a73


Your pics are pain to load, all high resolution. .

Still cool and thanks for this pic, I also wanted to see fidue a73 compared to ed16


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Well, is there any crossover expert who can replace ed16 driver with es4 driver and cross it like ed16 as es4 is the only iem to have graphene coated mylar? Peek driver(dunno but all new gen driver on today's gear are either mylar or peek).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 11, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Your pics are pain to load, all high resolution. .
> 
> Still cool and thanks for this pic, I also wanted to see fidue a73 compared to ed16



I will put it in a spoiler then.... but then no one notices them.    They load in a second for me.

What good is a low res photo?  I am so sick of all the crappy photos on facebook these days.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Don't spoiler it, as they load with more time.....


No probs with internet and MB availability as Indians have near infinite net for free nowadays. I am in my bedroom and signal drops to 3G and your pics seem to be near RAW quality( I zoomed it to limit)


Just click less size image by going in setting and dialling megapixel back




mbwilson111 said:


> I will put it in a spoiler then.... but then no one notices them.    They load in a second for me.


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Just click less size image by going in setting and dialling megapixel back



I take my photos with a real camera.... not my best one, but a camera.  I don't use a smartphone.  I am not going to change my camera settings because if I do then I just know I will get a once in a lifetime shot of something only to find out it is low res.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> I take my photos with a real camera.... not my best one, but a camera.  I don't use a smartphone.  I am not going to change my camera settings because if I do then I just know I will get a once in a lifetime shot of something only to find out it is low res.


Ohhhh.....so dedicated and here I though it was smartphone....no prob, now I understand



Well I have a question I wanted to ask to reviewer of final e5000 but word limit excedded

"
Well I have just one question and it may sound weird to all of head fi ERS


How can you all guys can listen to such a low volume. My ears are checked weekly as I am studio guy and their is no prob with my ears(neither genetically nor mutated neither I damaged my ear) but I have to listen more than 70% to actually hear something out of my device.

Even with comply and final tips or spinfit I can touch somewhat 70% to 75%.

An normal tips and I blast to 90% otherwise I am not able to hear things on track..


I know HTC are powerful but 30% to 50% is still to low.


And yes I have final e5000 too...actually both and 80% is my sweetspot.
"

Can anybody answer this


And on my benchmark dac3hgc I dial them to near limit of their volume and then lower them till I listen everything stitched in and coherent but still loud.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Ohhhh.....so dedicated and here I though it was smartphone....no prob, now I understand
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Different ears *shrug*. With a number of my more sensitive earphones, I listen through my LG G5 on volumes 1-3 out of 15 steps, and with some that's still louder than I prefer. Only demanding stuff like the B3 Pro 1 requires more and even then still usually under 50%. With my players it's more of the same, though with higher levels since they have more volume steps and tend to reach lower volumes before you hit silence.


----------



## durwood

Slater said:


> They told me for qty 1 they send the white box, and for the 3 or 5 qtys they put them all in 1 larger box. That’s not all that uncommon. It helps keep shipping costs down, eliminates wasteful packaging, and uses less fuel during transit which reduces the carbon footprint.
> 
> FYI, there’s no real unboxing “experience” with the small KZ packages lol. The EDR1/2 are in the same small white boxes as the KZ silver upgrade and Bluetooth cables. It’s a 2.5”X2.5” square box, and 1/2” thick. There’s barely room insude for the upgrade cables, much less a whole IEM. You tear a little zip strip, and your IEM is stuffed in a little baggie inside, then you throw away the baggie and box. That’s it. No Apple-esque unboxing experience, no clear plastic window to see the contents, no custom molded foam holder, fancy magnetic box flaps, velvet pull tabs, or gold foil embossing.



Yeah, I wish though they kept them in the boxes for gifting purposes though. It makes sense they can offer them cheaper if they don't need to sell with a box, or include the labor to package them individually.

I do have a question about the EDR1 since we are on the subject of EDR1 and also ED9 updated, when did they update the EDR1? I saw one advertisement where it shows it was updated to a new driver (blue in color in marketing material). The reason I ask is because @Slater had posted EDR1 vs EDR2 graphs and there was a difference. I bought my EDR1 (ALI) and EDR2 (Gearbest) as of this year and when I measured them had barely any difference, the difference IMO was probably a measurement error on my part or just QC variations.  I would have to listen closely, but I don't know if there is any difference between mine, so either my hearing cannot pick it up, or I am suggesting the EDR1/EDR2 just have different housing types, but likely same driver. Anyone else thoughts?


----------



## trumpethead

Slater said:


> They did open the small white KZ boxes, take out the IEMs, and repackage them all in 1 larger, non-KZ box (where they would all fit).
> 
> Or do you mean you misunderstood because you thought they were going to try and cram all 5 inside of the same dinky KZ white box? If so, that’s physically impossible - the box would just burst open at the seams like Chris Farley doing his “fat guy in a little coat” routine LOL



Ok.officially confused now. Will they still come in individual white containers but in one big box. Or no white containers at all...btw already ordered..lol


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 11, 2018)

So far comparing the KZ ED16 (aka ZS7) with the KZ ZS5 (v1), I can personally say that the ED16 easily outscores the ZS5 with its' luscious organic effortless smooth sounding signature. These are definitely going to score high on my list. So far, these are the best KZ's I've heard. They have such a nice sounding open field in the MID to high range with lower bass punch that practically surprised the heck out of me. The soundstage on these are amazing because it presents a great stage presents that not only covers a wide soundstage, but it has very good depth and frontal stage as well.

KZ has done an amazing job in tuning these to the liking of many that will enjoy them for their accuracy and presence of expensive hi-end signature quality in your ears!

I will be burning these in for another 50 hours, but I cannot see any more changes but for the better. I will soon be ordering these in blue just because they are personally that good!

These are a positive purchase in my book...


-Clear


----------



## gwompki

I've had the ES4 for about 5 days now.  Love it...its much different than all of the other KZ's I've owned (ATE, ED9, ZS3, ZST, ZS5v1, ZSR).  Its fairly flat instead of the usual tendency towards V shape.  The bass is slightly elevated and the highs are present, but not extended at all.  I would compare the sound sig to the Sennheiser HD650 with a bit more sub-bass...possibly what the HD660S sounds like, but I have not actually heard one myself.  I listen to the HD650's for hours at a time because they do so many things right...not an "exciting" sound by any means but just sounds great with almost every genre when properly amplified, and totally non-fatiguing.  I highly recommend the ES4 for anyone looking for a cheap HD-650 alternative that they can take on the go.  It's a great buy at the current prices they are selling for.  I don't want to inflate expectations too high here, because they certainly aren't without their weaknesses (some mid-bass bloom for example), but I do enjoy them a lot.


----------



## zazaboy

kz ed16 is on my list now thanks guys


----------



## TJK81 (Jun 11, 2018)

Sooooo.
New "gem"? just arrived.
Directly from China, directly from GB, directly to CZ. Put my Spiral dots and silver heavy braided KZ cable on them with jack inside of the AQ Dragonfly.
Short listening session with beautiful and tasty single coffee shot of Guatemala - Antiqua San Juan together with non iced glass of Jack Daniels whisky.
First track (to test bass power and depth) Kendrick Lamar - All the Stars (from Black Panther OST)... Really good impact and power. Graphene DD
doin good.
Next Little bird... Hey Annie... No "Sssssss"? Hm... Another plus point.
Another one... Blood sweat and Tears "Child Is Father To The Man" album to test overall sound quality and clatity. No harshness, no sibilance. average mid range. To my taste lacks a liiiiiiittle bit of clarity which ES3 have and i like. Good soundstage (similar to ES3's) and good secure fit in my ears (ES3's fits better and more secure)
But in the end... IMO first KZ's with BA (single or double) that i own with NO sibilance (i dont have ZSR).
Really good job KZ
Looking forward for longer listening sessions.
They are really comfortable, non fatiguing and so enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## cr0wnest

Got my ED16 the other day along with my **** 4-core cable. I'm enjoying it so far. Some siblance reminiscent of the ZSR but it seems a bit more controlled. Bass extension I believe is a little less than the ZSR. Can't confirm this just yet because I only tried my friend's ZSR, I don't own one yet.
Also the smaller shell is a plus since it should fit just about anybody's ears.

Not sure why only 2 or 3 stores on AliExpress are selling the ED16, its really something. If you liked the ZSR (Which I am sure many of you here do) but didn't like the harshness in the treble you might want to check the ED16 out.


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That is not open back design but pressure relieving ports.
> 
> 
> LoL
> ...


Quoting posts back from May 23, 2015 ? LOL


1clearhead said:


> So far comparing the KZ ED16 (aka ZS7) with the KZ ZS5 (v1), I can personally say that the ED16 easily outscores the ZS5 with its' luscious organic effortless smooth sounding signature. These are definitely going to score high on my list. So far, these are the best KZ's I've heard. They have such a nice sounding open field in the MID to high range with lower bass punch that practically surprised the heck out of me. The soundstage on these are amazing because it presents a great stage presents that not only covers a wide soundstage, but it has very good depth and frontal stage as well.
> 
> KZ has done an amazing job in tuning these to the liking of many that will enjoy them for their accuracy and presence of expensive hi-end signature quality in your ears!
> 
> ...



Wow, seems I need to get ED16/Zs7 O_o


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 11, 2018)

cr0wnest said:


> Got my ED16 the other day along with my **** 4-core cable. I'm enjoying it so far. Some siblance reminiscent of the ZSR but it seems a bit more controlled. Bass extension I believe is a little less than the ZSR. Can't confirm this just yet because I only tried my friend's ZSR, I don't own one yet.
> Also the smaller shell is a plus since it should fit just about anybody's ears.
> 
> Not sure why only 2 or 3 stores on AliExpress are selling the ED16, its really something. If you liked the ZSR (Which I am sure many of you here do) but didn't like the harshness in the treble you might want to check the ED16 out.


 That was a banned seller....please make sure you don't mention them otherwise mods will ban you

@mbwilson111 thanks


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> Quoting posts back from May 23, 2015 ? LOL
> 
> 
> Wow, seems I need to get ED16/Zs7 O_o


It is a ZSR with less peaks and 4kHz dip corrected with more comfortable design.

The 4kHz dip correction made the Cavernous soundstage of ZSR sound like open field and is more smooth and vibrant now


----------



## mbwilson111

@dhruvmeena96 You just did what you said we should not do!  Maybe you should edit your post.


----------



## Bartig

TJK81 said:


> Sooooo.
> New "gem"? just arrived.
> Directly from China, directly from GB, directly to CZ. Put my Spiral dots and silver heavy braided KZ cable on them with jack inside of the AQ Dragonfly.
> Short listening session with beautiful and tasty single coffee shot of Guatemala - Antiqua San Juan together with non iced glass of Jack Daniels whisky.
> ...


Ya uhm... but which KZ?


----------



## kennyhack

CoiL said:


> Quoting posts back from May 23, 2015 ? LOL
> 
> 
> Wow, seems I need to get ED16/Zs7 O_o


Well, I already told ED16 were a nice upgrade in sound quality in previous pages, but because "I was new with no messages in the forum" seemed that my opinion didn't count. By the way, I'm glad people are starting to appreciate what KZ has achieved with ED16.


----------



## kennyhack

CoiL said:


> That`s the thing - You can`t judge something based on others impressions. And my answer was mainly posted towards claim like bigger&more(BA)=better.
> I haven`t heard cheap chi-fi IEM (like KZ) which can beat IT01 (single DD) sound quality. Closest has been ZS5v1 with proper source and amping (which bests littlebit in soundstage size/width).


Quoting your own words, if 1clearhead is now saying that "_So far comparing the KZ ED16 (aka ZS7) with the KZ ZS5 (v1), I can personally say that the ED16 easily outscores the ZS5 with its' luscious organic effortless smooth sounding signature_." , maybe I wasn't THAT WRONG.


----------



## mbwilson111

kennyhack said:


> Well, I already told ED16 were a nice upgrade in sound quality in previous pages, but because "I was new with no messages in the forum" seemed that my opinion didn't count. By the way, I'm glad people are starting to appreciate what KZ has achieved with ED16.



Of course your opinion counted.  I hope mine did also, but because I am never able to explain why I like a headphone, iem, or bud it probably didn't count for much.  Basically, my test is if I get into the music and end up listening to album after album while forgetting to critique the iem itself then I feel that said iem has done its job well

I do agree that the ED16 is a success.  I will say that I personally had problems with the cable... the rubberiness of it was causing it to tangle in my long hair (and I could not get it to lay nicely over my ear) so now I have the cable on it that comes with most of the new KZ's.  The fact that the one for the ED16 has a straight connector into the earpiece while the one I ended up using has the angled connector is not a problem for me.  It now hangs behind my ear without getting so tangled in my hair.  The photo I posted earlier shows the angled one.


----------



## kennyhack

mbwilson111 said:


> I do agree that the ED16 is a success.  I will say that I personally had problems with the cable... the rubberiness of it was causing it to tangle in my long hair (and I could not get it to lay nicely over my ear) so now I have the cable on it that comes with most of the new KZ's.


I feel the same with the cable... Don't know why it doesn't come with the braided cable (as the ES4)


----------



## mbwilson111

kennyhack said:


> I feel the same with the cable... Don't know why it doesn't come with the braided cable (as the ES4)



Because my husband's ES4 arrived out of phase, he had  put a cable on it with the straight connector so he could reverse one of the connectors thus putting it in phase.    I am using the cable that came with his ES4 on my ED16 and it suits it perfectly.


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> Because my husband's ES4 arrived out of phase, he had  put a cable on it with the straight connector so he could reverse one of the connectors thus putting it in phase.    I am using the cable that came with his ES4 on my ED16 and it suits it perfectly.


It was actually my KZ ZSA that was out of phase my ES4 was fine and dandy


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> It was actually my KZ ZSA that was out of phase my ES4 was fine and dandy



Oops... yes it was the ZSA... so that is the cable that I am using on my ED16... but it is the same as the one on the ES4

Like kenny said, they should have used that one on the ED16 as well. I even think it looks better with the angled connector;


----------



## SHAMuuu

Found peace with KINGYOU foam tips  which cost more than the iem lol


----------



## Slater

dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ ed9 and jomo audio Hakka nozzle
> 
> KZ ed9 has a lot of secret on tuning. If you see the tuning nozzles, they are in shape of horn which makes me remember jomo audio haka, plus they are more linear to center of driver. Secondly, the bass pressure reliever is actually well designed and cleans the bass.



Funny you should mention this.

On 1 of my ED9, I took the shiny gold 'bass' nozzles, removed the tuning foam, and also popped out the mesh screen in the end of the filter. It cleans up the sound and has the punchy bass that is tuned out when using the dull nozzle. The mod is totally reversible too.

Anyways, the point is that the nozzles end up looking just like the Jomos 

On my other ED9, I run the dull nozzles, for when I'm in the mood for a little more neutral sound.


----------



## 1clearhead

Just recently, I compared the KZ ED16 against the much famed KZ ZS5 and new comer Magaosi Y3, and just in precision and MID/High extended range, it has the ZS5 and Y3 beat. They just can not deminstrate the organic and lush transparency that the ED16 has.

UP NEXT: During the week, I'll be comparing the KZ ED16 with MEMT R7, Magaosi K3 PRO and Magaosi K3 HD.


-Clear


----------



## eruditass (Jun 12, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Unfortunately my wife grabbed them from the pile I received that day leaving me with 3 earbuds but I know she likes them


Any impressions on the ED16 yet? Are the ES4's still your favorite?  

Quite curious, as I hear the ES4's have the best mids so far.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> Of course your opinion counted.  I hope mine did also, but because I am never able to explain why I like a headphone, iem, or bud it probably didn't count for much.  Basically, my test is if I get into the music and end up listening to album after album while forgetting to critique the iem itself then I feel that said iem has done its job well
> 
> I do agree that the ED16 is a success.  I will say that I personally had problems with the cable... the rubberiness of it was causing it to tangle in my long hair (and I could not get it to lay nicely over my ear) so now I have the cable on it that comes with most of the new KZ's.  The fact that the one for the ED16 has a straight connector into the earpiece while the one I ended up using has the angled connector is not a problem for me.  It now hangs behind my ear without getting so tangled in my hair.  The photo I posted earlier shows the angled one.


Close your eyes and focus on either instruments or vocal, then A/B your other iem(try them) and do same. On first attempt you would have to A/B for 2 to 3 times but once you are trained, its easy to tell


Or go to YouTube and test STAX CD for your IEM. If you are still not able to tell accurate difference then last thing is goldenear training CD(torrent it).


You will be able to tell phase, time, stage, image etc.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> Funny you should mention this.
> 
> On 1 of my ED9, I took the shiny gold 'bass' nozzles, removed the tuning foam, and also popped out the mesh screen in the end of the filter. It cleans up the sound and has the punchy bass that is tuned out when using the dull nozzle. The mod is totally reversible too.
> 
> ...


Its a horn shape with specific curve, called acapella horn. This may solve weird frequency overlapping when iem driver produced sound comes from compressed nozzle.


----------



## DocHoliday

1clearhead said:


> Just recently, I compared the KZ ED16 against the much famed KZ ZS5 and new comer Magaosi Y3, and just in precision and MID/High extended range, it has the ZS5 and Y3 beat. They just can not deminstrate the organic and lush transparency that the ED16 has.
> 
> UP NEXT: During the week, I'll be comparing the KZ ED16 with MEMT R7, Magaosi K3 PRO and Magaosi K3 HD.
> 
> ...



Feedback like this is what makes this thread so important. 

Also, it sounds like the ED16/ZS7 has one-upped the ZSR which is very encouraging because the ZSR is very, very good. 




 

Just so you know, your feedback was the very reason I picked up the Magaosi M3 last year. 



 

Looking forward to your thoughts, Clear!


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> Yeah, I wish though they kept them in the boxes for gifting purposes though. It makes sense they can offer them cheaper if they don't need to sell with a box, or include the labor to package them individually.
> 
> I do have a question about the EDR1 since we are on the subject of EDR1 and also ED9 updated, when did they update the EDR1? I saw one advertisement where it shows it was updated to a new driver (blue in color in marketing material). The reason I ask is because @Slater had posted EDR1 vs EDR2 graphs and there was a difference. I bought my EDR1 (ALI) and EDR2 (Gearbest) as of this year and when I measured them had barely any difference, the difference IMO was probably a measurement error on my part or just QC variations.  I would have to listen closely, but I don't know if there is any difference between mine, so either my hearing cannot pick it up, or I am suggesting the EDR1/EDR2 just have different housing types, but likely same driver. Anyone else thoughts?



The EDR1 driver was updated a long time ago (like years ago). Those ads talking about the "new generation driver" and referencing that change can be misleading.

Now, they DID update the case of the EDR1 this year (when they started a new production run of them in their new factory, and started putting them in the new white boxes. But the internals are the same - the only difference is the nozzle is slightly shorter.


----------



## Slater

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its a horn shape with specific curve, called acapella horn. This may solve weird frequency overlapping when iem driver produced sound comes from compressed nozzle.



You'll find this interesting I'm sure: http://mafija.fmf.uni-lj.si/seminar...physics_of_the_trumpet_(Bostjan_Berkopec).pdf


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> You'll find this interesting I'm sure: http://mafija.fmf.uni-lj.si/seminar...physics_of_the_trumpet_(Bostjan_Berkopec).pdf


That's is acapella horn for speaker, the same shape. It is actually smart to amplify near impedance peak to get overall smoother transition. As this ed9 horn is small and foam dampens most peak out, the treble tends to sound more open as the horn raises the dips on FR.


So, actually KZ did make this IEM with proper science.


----------



## TJK81 (Jun 12, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Ya uhm... but which KZ?


Heeeeey. What the... 
It's obviously KZ ES4
I was So impressed with them that i forgot to mention it.


----------



## Zerohour88

cr0wnest said:


> Got my ED16 the other day along with my **** 4-core cable. I'm enjoying it so far. Some siblance reminiscent of the ZSR but it seems a bit more controlled. Bass extension I believe is a little less than the ZSR. Can't confirm this just yet because I only tried my friend's ZSR, I don't own one yet.
> Also the smaller shell is a plus since it should fit just about anybody's ears.
> 
> Not sure why only 2 or 3 stores on AliExpress are selling the ED16, its really something. If you liked the ZSR (Which I am sure many of you here do) but didn't like the harshness in the treble you might want to check the ED16 out.



There's some speculation that the ED16 isn't really an official release and that its just something they made and then decided to offload randomly. Assumptions made due to unavailability from official KZ store (both aliexpress and tmall) and the ZS7 markings, meaning it was supposed to released earlier as part of ZS lineup instead of ED.

Of course, its all speculation. They might've decided to hold the release officially to prevent new models stealing the storm of already released model (which is kinda stupid since they announced lots of models beforehand). Or maybe its all really chaos and different parts of the company producing and releasing their own designated models and there's no central command to all of it.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Zerohour88 said:


> There's some speculation that the ED16 isn't really an official release and that its just something they made and then decided to offload randomly. Assumptions made due to unavailability from official KZ store (both aliexpress and tmall) and the ZS7 markings, meaning it was supposed to released earlier as part of ZS lineup instead of ED.
> 
> Of course, its all speculation. They might've decided to hold the release officially to prevent new models stealing the storm of already released model (which is kinda stupid since they announced lots of models beforehand). Or maybe its all really chaos and different parts of the company producing and releasing their own designated models and there's no central command to all of it.


And their is one more speculation, that KZ ed16 was created in house by KZ like the ate and ed9 and not by some other factory.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 12, 2018)

KZ ed9 with balanced nozzle, open back mod and heavy tip like symbio.

Theoretically, @Slater, your mod decrease the mid bass and make bass roll of something like Final lab II or focal utopia.

Heavy tips(eartips having weight) may produce a weight anchor inside the ear, making the sound propagation much better as ear is now damped from vibration of iem and outside factor.

The limiting factor now is the driver......


Well try putting 0.5mm felt inside the enclosure walls.

This may act as pseudo ETL and may improve stage by a lot factor


----------



## HungryPanda (Jun 12, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> There's some speculation that the ED16 isn't really an official release and that its just something they made and then decided to offload randomly. Assumptions made due to unavailability from official KZ store (both aliexpress and tmall) and the ZS7 markings, meaning it was supposed to released earlier as part of ZS lineup instead of ED.
> 
> Of course, its all speculation. They might've decided to hold the release officially to prevent new models stealing the storm of already released model (which is kinda stupid since they announced lots of models beforehand). Or maybe its all really chaos and different parts of the company producing and releasing their own designated models and there's no central command to all of it.


 Well it is more a certainly a release now as it is adored now. Go KZ


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@CoiL 

You nodded KZ ed9 once....we expect another ed9 mod from you..

New ED9


LoL


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 12, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> There's some speculation that the ED16 isn't really an official release and that its just something they made and then decided to offload randomly. Assumptions made due to unavailability from official KZ store (both aliexpress and tmall) and the ZS7 markings, meaning it was supposed to released earlier as part of ZS lineup instead of ED.
> 
> Of course, its all speculation. They might've decided to hold the release officially to prevent new models stealing the storm of already released model (which is kinda stupid since they announced lots of models beforehand). Or maybe its all really chaos and different parts of the company producing and releasing their own designated models and there's no central command to all of it.



Can't remember where I heard this but the rumor I got wind of was that the ZS7(ED16) was supposed to be an exclusive for a particular seller for a limited time and then released via the general marketplace. Somewhat akin to GearBest's exclusive with ES3 (which they alone carried for several weeks) 

The chaos surrounding the moniker is unfortunate. I hope the ZS7 moniker takes hold since it's labeled as such. I wonder if the chaos was a result of rushing it to market to take the attention off of the lukewarm reception of the ZS10 (perhaps to buy some time). 

Buy time for what?

If history is anything to go by I'd venture a guess that the ZS10 will undergo an alteration of sorts; not unlike what we saw with the ZS5(v1) to ZS5(v2). No BA's or DD's to be moved this time; only fine tuning via the crossover. In addition, if this is the case then before re-tuning KZ should lengthen the ZS10 nozzle to facilitate deeper insertion.



 

Be aware that this is all conjecture but we'll see. The ZS10 was meant to be their flagship so a little tweaking and tinkering might be in order when you consider that KZ now has a graphene 10mm DD they can swap.

From this.....



 


To this.....





It could be that the ZS10 has had the graphene 10mm all along
........ just a failure to advertise it.


----------



## HiFiChris

Are there any more impressions or measurements on the ZSA (https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009380381101.html)? Not all that much yet.

Looks inexpensive, small and comfortable. Wondering how v-shaped it is.
A mixture of the ZS5 v1's lows and highs and ZS6's mids would sound pleasant, but I fear that it sounds thinner more exaggerated.


----------



## audionab

HiFiChris said:


> Are there any more impressions or measurements on the ZSA (https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009380381101.html)? Not all that much yet.
> 
> Looks inexpensive, small and comfortable. Wondering how v-shaped it is.
> A mixture of the ZS5 v1's lows and highs and ZS6's mids would sound pleasant, but I fear that it sounds thinner more exaggerated.


or go for kz es4 for 14$ via coupon if your ears are not small


----------



## dhruvmeena96

HiFiChris said:


> Are there any more impressions or measurements on the ZSA (https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009380381101.html)? Not all that much yet.
> 
> Looks inexpensive, small and comfortable. Wondering how v-shaped it is.
> A mixture of the ZS5 v1's lows and highs and ZS6's mids would sound pleasant, but I fear that it sounds thinner more exaggerated.



You had a blog, why did you stopped it.... It was so easy to compare on that data


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> I don't know what 30 IEMs you have, but the EDR1 is not some giant killer that's going to beat everything under the sun. It is, however, the best IEM under $5 hands down (and I would also argue the best under $10 MSRP as well).
> 
> But it's not perfect. It has a few minor flaws, it's not neutral, not mid forward, not ideal for classical, and doesn't walk on water. It won't make coffee or increase your car's MPG. It's just a da*n good $5-$10 IEM, plain and simple. As long as people look at it within that context, they will be extremely happy with it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response, considering I have 30 IEM/Ear Buds of the budget variety, you've made me decide to cancel my order for the EDR1. I didn't realize it was the best deal under $10, I've already found the best deals but they aren't always IEM's. I trust you that this is the best IEM under $10 but I just bought the TRN V20 for $15 and it's much better value for only $5 more and I don't need to hear the EDR1 to know that. 

I'm not sure what KZ is trying to say in that statement it sounds like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to me It sounds meaningless and weirdly phrased. What does it mean to you?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

audionab said:


> or go for kz es4 for 14$ via coupon if your ears are not small



Where's the coupon for $14? I heard Aliexpress is having a sale in 3 days so maybe we won't need a coupon then. It seems to me from reading reviews that the ES4 is the best thing KZ has put out in months.


----------



## mosz

Hi, I'm new here.
I got the ZSR and the ATR,
Love the ZSR but they are quite huge,
Was wondering how small is the ZSA compared to the ATR ?

Thanks,


----------



## audionab

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Where's the coupon for $14? I heard Aliexpress is having a sale in 3 days so maybe we won't need a coupon then. It seems to me from reading reviews that the ES4 is the best thing KZ has put out in months.


thephonograph.net is the website
check the review of es4 for coupon
wait for the aliexpress sale you may get a better deal on es4 or maybe ed16 which is better


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Actually they improved ED9 from driver side....
> 
> 
> I have old and new model and they sound very different. Newer model is way cleaner


The old ED9 did sound like a mess and it's no wonder I've never really used it.  I'm glad to hear the upgraded it. They definitely need to improve on old models when they can or even add another model to the line and call it B.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 12, 2018)

audionab said:


> thephonograph.net is the website
> check the review of es4 for coupon
> wait for the aliexpress sale you may get a better deal on es4 or maybe ed16 which is better


I've read a couple reviews on the ED16 and they said they were sharp on electronic music and some songs were sibilant. Another review said some high pitched songs sounded liked screeching. That turned me off. Sounds like the ES4 is probably better?


----------



## audionab

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've read a couple reviews on the ED16 and they said they were sharp on electronic music and some songs were sibilant. Another review said some high pitched songs sounded liked screeching. That turned me off. Sounds like the ES4 is probably better?


maybe it was sharp because of no burn in maybe and i dont think ed16 are sibilant which should have been mentioned in its impressions here


----------



## taygomi (Jun 12, 2018)

is the zsa made from metal?
for that price, it might be the most interesting kz model


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 12, 2018)

audionab said:


> maybe it was sharp because of no burn in maybe and i dont think ed16 are sibilant which should have been mentioned in its impressions here


It looks like the ES4 are $12.75 and the ED16 are $17 in a couple days on Ali.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

audionab said:


> maybe it was sharp because of no burn in maybe and i dont think ed16 are sibilant which should have been mentioned in its impressions here


I think it might have been from lack of burn-in as well but 95% of consumers probably aren't aware of that idea,


----------



## audionab

LaughMoreDaily said:


> 2 days away:
> 
> KZ ES4 on Aliexpress: $12.75
> KZ ED16 $17.00
> ...


ed16 would be a steal at 17$
prepare your wallets folks


----------



## audionab

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think it might have been from lack of burn-in as well but 95% of consumers probably aren't aware of that idea,


install 1More Assistant app and tap start to start the burn in
it has become that easy now
this burn in has 4 phases
i am the impatient one so i do the first 2 phases only which are 12 hours each
the 3rd phase is whooping 72 hours long and i never reached 4th phase god knows how long would that be


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure what KZ is trying to say in that statement it sounds like a bunch of mumbo-jumbo to me It sounds meaningless and weirdly phrased. What does it mean to you?



Yes, of course I was joking about that part.

It's just gibberish Chinglish - lost in translation somewhere.




That's unfortunate you cancelled your EDR1 order (especially for ~$3ish). Who knows, maybe you would like it more than some of your other stuff. I try not to concentrate on the price tiers, and concentrate on the sound.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

audionab said:


> ed16 would be a steal at 17$
> prepare your wallets folks


Prepare your wallets... lol. That's a meal at a restaurant.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

audionab said:


> install 1More Assistant app and tap start to start the burn in
> it has become that easy now
> this burn in has 4 phases
> i am the impatient one so i do the first 2 phases only which are 12 hours each


You're awesome, thanks so much for telling me about this!  I wish I could hug you right now. I've never thought about using my cell phone as a burn-in device and with this app it's a great idea.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> That's unfortunate you cancelled your EDR1 order (especially for ~$3ish). Who knows, maybe you would like it more than some of your other stuff. I try not to concentrate on the price tiers, and concentrate on the sound.


It looks like they shipped them just in time before I could cancel. I'm going to debate about these things with you when I get them. I have 30 other budget pairs to compare them to. Be scared, very scared.


----------



## audionab

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You're awesome, thanks so much for telling me about this!  I wish I could hug you right now. I've never thought about using my cell phone as a burn-in device and with this app it's a great idea.


you should also thank @Slater he was the one who told me about the existence of such great app in first place


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

audionab said:


> ed16 would be a steal at 17$
> prepare your wallets folks


I went back to add those to my cart but I couldn't find the seller even though there's only three. I guess we'll see in a couple days.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

LoL


All of you who are doing burn in with sweeps and noise, it will not effect the sound.

Burn in is not done with noise(it takes a huge time with these).


First listen to all the frequency tone with frequency generator at near full volume.

You will find that at some frequency, driver is forcing itself to produce it(clip, noise anything).

Note all those frequency.


Now take pink noise sample of those frequency and burn them about 5hrs at max volume from phone(no amp).

Well burn is used to remove any mechanical resistance from driver and not making the diaphragm more flexible.

Voice coil, spider, and surround is also a factor. And its used to reach ideal F/S parameter.

If their is resistance at 40Hz, then driver will not reach at its lowest as their is peak Q factor affecting nearby values.

Same goes for high frequency.


And burn in will never give you that drastic effects.

Chinese BA tends to be more affected to burn due to critically damped non calculated response. Highly damped movement gets burn to ideal value whereas Knowles make the driver to be critically damped and with better tolerances.

Well after all the frequency point burn.

Do a Gaussian white noise at 30% volume for 5hrs.


You are ready to go.


Why, because an iem has at most 2 peaks


----------



## mbwilson111

The expert has spoken...


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> LoL
> 
> 
> All of you who are doing burn in with sweeps and noise, it will not effect the sound.
> ...


sounds complicated


----------



## mbwilson111

audionab said:


> sounds complicated



..and yet, I manage to enjoy my music somehow in spite of the fact that I burn in with normal music at listening volumes.  Poor me.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> ..and yet, I manage to enjoy my music somehow in spite of the fact that I burn in with normal music at listening volumes.  Poor me.


Haha

LoL


----------



## HerrXRDS

How are the mids and details on ED16? Still recessed?


----------



## hiflofi

If KZ can come out with an IEM that somehow had great resolution and clarity (ZS6 is solid), slightly less sub-bass, slightly more mid-forward and less sting in the treble (which contributes to slight sibilance), I'd take it.


----------



## loomisjohnson

i get why kz floods the market with so many new models--just like gym shoes or cabernets, there's a lot of folks who are more into collecting than using. what i can't quite grasp is why there's so little sonic and (particularly) aesthetic differentiation between their new releases--try as i might i can't see a ton of difference between the zs10, zsr, ed16, etc. if i was mr. kz, i'd be more focused on design, but of course, what do i know...


----------



## mbwilson111

HerrXRDS said:


> How are the mids and details on ED16? Still recessed?



They were never recessed to my ears.  Have you read the past several
 pages?


----------



## gwompki

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet (I can't keep up with this thread anymore) but did anyone else notice the 0 ohm resistors in the ES4 crossover at R1 and R2? LOL.


----------



## hiflofi

loomisjohnson said:


> i get why kz floods the market with so many new models--just like gym shoes or cabernets, there's a lot of folks who are more into collecting than using. what i can't quite grasp is why there's so little sonic and (particularly) aesthetic differentiation between their new releases--try as i might i can't see a ton of difference between the zs10, zsr, ed16, etc. if i was mr. kz, i'd be more focused on design, but of course, what do i know...


I can understand the desire to collect IEMs. Some people want to tryr every single sound, even if most of them end up being the stock KZ house sound (v-shaped). The only KZ I currently own is the KZ ZS6. Moved on from the ZST (given away) which was my only other pair. Will be very tempted to get the next one coming out.


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Jun 12, 2018)

Can anyone help?

I’ve bought my first pair of balanced cable that has a 0.75mm connector for use with KZ headphones.

Since they are are not official KZ they don’t have the curved end on the connector to let me know which side to plug in.

Instead one of the connectors has a red dot on the tip. Does anyone know which way these should be plugged in?

(I.e red dot towards the “curved” side of the KZ plug? Or visa-versa?)

KZ style: rounded edge - clear to know which way
 

Balanced cable style: red dot, but no curved side.


----------



## VinceHill24

CardigdanWalk said:


> Can anyone help?
> 
> I’ve bought my first pair of balanced cable that has a 0.75mm connector for use with KZ headphones.
> 
> ...


Don't think there is any way to find out unless you listen for yourself. Use the audiocheck website polarity test

https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

If it sounds off then reverse 1 side will do.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

VinceHill24 said:


> Don't think there is any way to find out unless you listen for yourself. Use the audiocheck website polarity test
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php
> 
> If it sounds off then reverse 1 side will do.


That will do....

And only buy certified cables from penon or KZ or trn


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> what do i know...



more than most...



loomisjohnson said:


> i'd be more focused on design



you want more variety in the designs?  here you go...


----------



## CardigdanWalk

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That will do....
> 
> And only buy certified cables from penon or KZ or trn



Dang, was hoping that wasn’t the case. Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference with that test! Hoping it will be more pronounced with balanced cables!

Do KZ do balanced cables? I tried looking without much luck!


----------



## VinceHill24

CardigdanWalk said:


> Dang, was hoping that wasn’t the case. Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference with that test! Hoping it will be more pronounced with balanced cables!
> 
> Do KZ do balanced cables? I tried looking without much luck!



Surprisingly they do. 
KZ ZS10 ES4 ZST ZSR 2.5mm silver plated Headphone upgrade wire Earphone High quality Cable 0.75mm Pin DIY Detachable Audio Cord
http://s.aliexpress.com/eYf2EzI7

Not sure if you can open the link. It's available fron aliexpress KZ official store


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Doh!

Wish I knew that in that before, a lot cheaper than the one I bought too!

Only positive is that my other similar KZ product in that colour has turned green, so at least I won’t have to worry about that!





VinceHill24 said:


> Surprisingly they do.
> KZ ZS10 ES4 ZST ZSR 2.5mm silver plated Headphone upgrade wire Earphone High quality Cable 0.75mm Pin DIY Detachable Audio Cord
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eYf2EzI7
> 
> Not sure if you can open the link. It's available fron aliexpress KZ official store


----------



## mbwilson111

CardigdanWalk said:


> Doh!
> 
> Wish I knew that in that before, a lot cheaper than the one I bought too!
> 
> Only positive is that my other similar KZ product in that colour has turned green, so at least I won’t have to worry about that!



I am afraid of those KZ ones turning green also... I would have to throw it away if that happened.  The cable you bought is really beautiful looking... hope it was not horribly expensive.


----------



## loomisjohnson

mbwilson111 said:


> more than most...
> 
> 
> 
> you want more variety in the designs?  here you go...


i like the skulls!!!


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> i like the skulls!!!



I thought you would.  When I saw them I thought "those are the ones."


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 12, 2018)

ZS10 came in today. Just when I thought my ES4 were on the larger side...



Spoiler: Photos



















Let's just say I can't be lazy when it comes to storing these or it's going to be virtually impossible to tell them apart.

Initial listening impressions will probably come this evening.


----------



## KipNix

s8grave said:


> and of course expensive gear sounds GREAT(not all of it), but KZ sounds AWESOME. I own KZ ZST, ZS5, ZSR and waiting for ED16 and ZS10 to arrive.
> ZSRs I like the most for now, and prefer them to my custom Westone ES60.



Right on. 

My point is technology is advancing rapidly and in the case of IEMs, there will be a convergence (synchronicity) of the lower priced technology meeting the higher priced product technology and design.
That's where KZ comes in; it seems like their goal. 
This is IMHO. 
A thank you to Crinacles' ranking list.


----------



## KipNix

mbwilson111 said:


> So, you won't tell me which one tastes the best?  So disappointed.


Best taste or less filling?


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> ZS10 came in today. Just when I thought my ES4 were on the larger side..



It is a baby ZS10.  I want to see the creatures in the background.  What are they?


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> It is a baby ZS10.  I want to see the creatures in the background.  What are they?


I'll snap some photos when I get home, but they're little Nightmares Before Christmas figurines a friend of ours made as a gift.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

mbwilson111 said:


> I am afraid of those KZ ones turning green also... I would have to throw it away if that happened.  The cable you bought is really beautiful looking... hope it was not horribly expensive.



That’s what I’m telling myself!

Although rather bizarrely, the cables fit perfectly in the ZS10. However i can’t get them more than a 1/3 the way in on my ZS5.

I’ve heard that there are two “types” of cables, but I thought it was just on the “angled” or “straight” connector, not on the plug diameter?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Zs10 needs cotton swap damping and some bass reduction to actually sound very nice.

It has a weird Frequency response for my taste and even for my family taste, Dad tried it and said local 1$ were more justifiable( well everything sounds same until it is worst for him). No QC issue as my friend zs10 sounds same.

It has over glaring 5kHz peak and then sudden roll off which can make it female focused mid and then no air detail.

Light cotton filling inside nozzle will fix it. Light filling will damp 4kHz and 6kHz 

But then it had crazy bass response( no colouring, just that the bass went phantom and monstrous)

OK, somebody here mentioned zero ohm resistor.


Well we add zero ohm resistor to increase the power handling of crossover. It will have certain watt rating, if applied in series, it act as single increased resistance but here zero resistance will help distribute heat dissipation from the "rated ohm" resistor.

Shure se846 have 2 of zero ohm resistance.



Best KZ for me till now

Old gen

KZ ED9 edition
KZ ES3
KZ ZS5
KZ ANV
KZ ie80

New

KZ ES4
KZ ED16
KZ ED9 Black


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> i get why kz floods the market with so many new models--just like gym shoes or cabernets, there's a lot of folks who are more into collecting than using. what i can't quite grasp is why there's so little sonic and (particularly) aesthetic differentiation between their new releases--try as i might i can't see a ton of difference between the zs10, zsr, ed16, etc. if i was mr. kz, i'd be more focused on design, but of course, what do i know...



That's why I try and concentrate on the models that offer something unique (either in sound tuning, design, or features):

ANV (1st large diameter dynamic)
ED9 (solid copper body and changeable filters)
ZS1 (1st dual dynamic, 1st with crossover)
ZN1 (built-in amplifier)
HDS2 (smallest KZ, more neutral model)
ZS3 (1st KZ with CEIM-type design, 1st with 2-pin removable cable)
ZST (1st hybrid from KZ)
ZS5 v1 (1st quad driver from KZ)
ZS6 (flagship, aluminum shell, excellent sound)
The new models seem to just be a race to see how many virtually similar models they can crank out. The only one I am excited about is that large round one, because it will be the 1st large-diameter dynamic since the ANV. I forget the model code, but it looks like a big round bubble.


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> That's why I try and concentrate on the models that offer something unique (either in sound tuning, design, or features):
> 
> ED9 (solid copper body and changeable filters)
> ZS1 (1st dual dynamic, 1st with crossover)
> ...


I always thought the go-to opinion on the ZS6 is that they don’t sound different than the ZS5 v2. In what way do they differ?


----------



## eruditass

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've read a couple reviews on the ED16 and they said they were sharp on electronic music and some songs were sibilant. Another review said some high pitched songs sounded liked screeching. That turned me off. Sounds like the ES4 is probably better?



Any links for these reviews?

I'm trying to decide between the ES4 and ED16.  What's got the best miss (for a KZ)


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

Bartig said:


> I always thought the go-to opinion on the ZS6 is that they don’t sound different than the ZS5 v2. In what way do they differ?



ZS6 added the following changes over the ZS5 v2:

CNC aluminum shell (more mass loading)
Shell has redesigned shape to provide much better comfort
Midrange driver is tuned differently
Front hole is 50% smaller to provide more sub bass
Rear vents significantly larger, moved from sides to back
Blue driver dampening coating deleted
Different nozzle filter
Addition of nozzle lip (on newer ZS6)
Additional color choices


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> ZS6 added the following changes:
> 
> CNC aluminum shell
> Shell has redesigned shape to provide much better comfort
> ...


Yes. Now what do those changes do to the sound?


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Yes. Now what do those changes do to the sound?



It improves it.

Better midrange, more sub bass, improved soundstage, much better fit/comfort

The point is that KZ learns from past mistakes and continuously makes incremental improvements. The ZS6 is definitely my favorite KZ. I suggest you buy one and try it out for yourself. If the treble is too sharp for you, there's many things you can do to reduce it. But if you already own the ZS5 v2, you'll already know what to expect from the treble. The sharp treble has been blown out of proportion honestly. You get used to it.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> That's why I try and concentrate on the models that offer something unique (either in sound tuning, design, or features):
> 
> ANV (1st large diameter dynamic)
> ED9 (solid copper body and changeable filters)
> ...



That would be this puppy.....




 

It's another hybrid but hopefully KZ will put those housings to use with a well-tuned single DD (graphene.....maybe). 


I'm still quite intrigued by this 2BA+1DD as well.....



 

Not too crazy about more plastic-based models but....... (shrugs).

__________________________________




dhruvmeena96 said:


> .
> 
> Best KZ for me till now
> 
> ...



I noticed that the ES3 is on your list but the ZSR is not. 



 

Any particular reason?


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> That would be this puppy.....
> 
> 
> 
> It's another hybrid but hopefully KZ will put those housings to use with a well-tuned single DD (graphene.....maybe).



Yes, that's the one! Thanks Doc


----------



## rayliam80

CardigdanWalk said:


> Can anyone help?
> 
> I’ve bought my first pair of balanced cable that has a 0.75mm connector for use with KZ headphones.
> 
> ...



I found with that cable and another similar to it, the dot side goes where the rounded edge is. Red for right and blue for left. Both cables are in phase in that orientation from my experience.


----------



## mottykytu

Please help

Between zsa and es4 which is more comfortable for laying down on the bed? ( with one of the side face down) thank alot


----------



## CardigdanWalk

rayliam80 said:


> I found with that cable and another similar to it, the dot side goes where the rounded edge is. Red for right and blue for left. Both cables are in phase in that orientation from my experience.



Thanks for this, from initial first listening and the audio check website listed this seems to be case!

My main concern is now is the cable prongs seem too big for my zs5!


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> ZS6 added the following changes over the ZS5 v2:
> 
> CNC aluminum shell (more mass loading)
> Shell has redesigned shape to provide much better comfort
> ...



The ZS6 is definitely my favorite with the ZSR coming in at a slightly distant second. If the ZS7/ED16  can bridge the gap between the ZSR's gently tapered mid to upper frequencies and the ZS6's full onslaught of all frequencies then KZ might just have something quite special. 

What do I get out of it if I buy the ZS6 then the ZSR and finally the ZS7/ED16?

An inexpensive education ($45 + $28 + $24 = $97), equipment that facilitates further training of my ears (discernment) and three great IEMs......for under $100 total.

This is why I don't mind them releasing several models. Bridging the gap between sound signatures is a way to cover all the bases. 

Those who find the ZST a bit too shimmery or bass-shy can go for the ES3 with it's slightly tapered upper-treble and thicker bass impact. 




 

The ES3 loses "air" but gains body. I still can't pick a favorite between the two. I love the ZST's air but the ES3's visceral kick gets me every time. To my ears, the ES3 bridges the gap between the ZST (improved separation) and the ZS3 (tapered treble and copious amounts of lower end).

Those who find the EDSE a bit too shimmery or bass-shy can go for the EDR1 with it's slightly tapered upper-treble and thicker bass impact.

Those who find the ED3 "Perfection" a bit too shimmery or bass-shy can go for the ED3 "ACME" with it's slightly tapered upper-treble and thicker bass impact.

Those who find the HDS1 bass-shy with too intimate a soundstage can go for the HDS3 with it's thicker bass impact and near holographic presentation.

.....and so on and so on.

By the way, think about that last one. More bass and more air seem "almost" counter-intuitive (despite the HDS1 and HDS3 having identical triple vents in the rear) but KZ pulled it off.

Bridging the gap has been KZ's M.O. for quite some time.

Their raison d'etre? 

Find a need and fill it.


----------



## eruditass (Jun 12, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> They were never recessed to my ears.  Have you read the past several
> pages?



I've read the past several ages (and searched for all comments on ED16) and haven't seen many comments on the midrange.  The general KZ sound is a bit V shaped with recessed mids which many here enjoy.

I guess the question is: how do the mids compare to other KZ's?  Are they more forward or similar?

KZ's with the most prominent mids, from what I have been reading, are the single driver ones, specifically EDR1/2, HDS1/3 ATE, ATR, ED9.   The best multi-driver are the ZSR.  I've read positive things about the ES4's mids by one or two people, but the only comments on the ED16 I've found were that it was a bit better than ES4 (with no specifics if it was referring to mids or other things, and it wasnt the people that enjoyed the ES4 for more forward mids)


----------



## neo_styles

DoomzDayz said:


> I've read the past several ages (and searched for all comments on ED16) and haven't seen many comments on the midrange.  The general KZ sound is a bit V shaped with recessed mids which many here enjoy.
> 
> I guess the question is: how do the mids compare to other KZ's?  Are they more forward or similar?
> 
> KZ's with the most prominent mids, from what I have been reading, are the single driver ones, specifically EDR1/2, HDS1/3 ATE, ATR, ED9.   The best multi-driver are the ZSR.  I've read positive things about the ES4's mids by one or two people, but the only comments on the ED16 I've found were that it was a bit better than ES4 (with no specifics if it was referring to mids or other things, and it wasnt the people that enjoyed the ES4 for more forward mids)


Even though I've only had a few hours with the ZS10 (and several weeks with the ES4), I can immediately tell you that the distant mids problem isn't there with the ES4; I had actually wondered where the hell my vocals went for the first couple hours of listening to the ZS10. So far, the ES4 seems like a better all-rounder in terms of sound signature while the ZS10 will work better in more isolated use cases.


----------



## Bartig

mottykytu said:


> Please help
> 
> Between zsa and es4 which is more comfortable for laying down on the bed? ( with one of the side face down) thank alot


Both are quite good. TRN V20 is the best for me, due to the soft touch it has. I prefer the ZSA slightly over the ES4. It's lovely small and comfy.


----------



## GamerGuppy

Slater said:


> That's why I try and concentrate on the models that offer something unique (either in sound tuning, design, or features):
> 
> ANV (1st large diameter dynamic)
> ED9 (solid copper body and changeable filters)
> ...



@Slater, I am a long time lurker on this forum and have come across many of your modding instructions. You also had an informative post on several methods of taming the treble on the ZS6. Back then you stated you liked mod #3 the most. I was wondering if this is still the case, would you say it improved the sound or did it have side effects, would you still advice people to try it?


----------



## Daniel Gur

Hello! I am a big fan of kz but was busy lately, I saw kz released a lot of new earphones, I wanted to ask which ones are fun/ which ones should I buy. I currently own ZST, ATR, ED9, ZSE, ZS6. Thanks alot!


----------



## HungryPanda

ES4 would be my suggestion Daniel


----------



## SHAMuuu

For KZ, i am finding KINGYOU to be much better for isolation and long term comfort. Better seal = more bass texture/dynamics IME.  As much as i LOVE comply, sometimes it feels like bugs are crawling in your ear canal after an hour of use and laying eggs in there, which are hatching at at alarming rate.






I think they add a bit of a unique premium look as well 

Makes me want to dabble more with KZ than throw into the closet now.


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> Thanks for this, from initial first listening and the audio check website listed this seems to be case!
> 
> My main concern is now is the cable prongs seem too big for my zs5!



They very well may be.

KZs use 0.75mm pins. Most non-KZ 2-pin plugs use 0.78mm pins. Assuming they are 0.78mm, it will be a ridiculously tight fit to get the plugs in the socket, but it is possible. Keep in mind that when you are done, however, the KZ socket will be permanently stretched, so from that point on only 0.78mm cables will fit (ie you will no longer be able to use KZ-compatible cables, as they will fall right out).


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

GamerGuppy said:


> @Slater, I am a long time lurker on this forum and have come across many of your modding instructions. You also had an informative post on several methods of taming the treble on the ZS6. Back then you stated you liked mod #3 the most. I was wondering if this is still the case, would you say it improved the sound or did it have side effects, would you still advice people to try it?



Yes, for those that find the ZS6 has too much treble, then somehow disabling or removing 1 BA is my personal preference.

You could do it many different ways - plugging 1 of the BAs with laser bond/blue tac/beeswax/clay/epoxy, ripping 1 out with pliers (hopefully not damaging the other BA), etc.

However, since I made that post other methods have come out by others, mainly manipulation using resistors - directly soldering, using an impedance adapter, or using a $3 3rd party in-line volume control adapter (which are simply adjustable resistors ie rheostat/potentiometer). The advantages of the volume control is its 1) low cost 2) fully reversible 3) infintely adjustable so you can tailor the treble to your liking.

If you search for content by @Otto Motor, he beautifully details how to use one on the ZS6 (and I think he even includes graphs showing the effect on treble).

There are other methods of tuning the ZS6 as well, but they are much more advanced for the average Joe.


----------



## rayliam80

Giant thanks to @Slater for the logo removal mod with nail buffing/polish removal sponges from Sally Beauty Supply. It worked out brilliantly!!! 



Spoiler: Spoiler



1. Started with the KZ ZST. I followed @Slater advice to go from coarse to fine. 






2. Leaving the sponge on the table, using my free hand to hold it at times and sanding while holding the nozzle was the most comfortable and quickest way for me. 






3. 






4. 






5. 






6. 






7.






8. Used a little bit of glass cleaner and a micro fiber cloth as the last step






9. Did the same thing in the same order of sponges with my ZS3






10. Cabled and ready to go (TRN Black Replacement Cable)






11.


----------



## Makahl (Jun 12, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Giant thanks to @Slater for the logo removal mod with nail buffing/polish removal sponges from Sally Beauty Supply. It worked out brilliantly!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good job!

Every time I look to my ZS3 after this mod I can't believe I paid less than $10 for it. It looks like a $300+ IEM also the fit and isolation are incredible.


----------



## hiflofi

Any comparisons of the ZS6 to ES4? I've halfheartedly committed to not buying another KZ until the 5 BA comes out. However, the ES4 doesn't look aesthetically pleasing (imo) but more importantly, the FR looks great. I'd like to hear impressions about the clarity relative to the ZS6 if possible. Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Giant thanks to @Slater for the logo removal mod with nail buffing/polish removal sponges from Sally Beauty Supply. It worked out brilliantly!!!



Nice job 

You didn't want to buff them, so they are shiny and glossy? The buffing block looks just like the sanding blocks. It just has some sort of polishing surface that gets rid of all the sanding marks and makes it look like polished glass.

Also, I actually finished a few of these myself.

One tip I found in doing a number of these - you don't always have to start with the coarse one. Depending on how thick the logo/writing is, you can often skip the coarser ones and just start with the medium or even fine sander. It saves a load of time!

For example, on the ATE the writing is really thin, allowing me to start with the fine one. Then I hit it with the buff block and I was done. This took under 30 seconds TOTAL!

ATE Before:
​
ATE After:
​
Granvella A8 (ie iRock A8) Before:
​
Granvella A8 (ie iRock A8) After:
​


----------



## 1clearhead

Daniel Gur said:


> Hello! I am a big fan of kz but was busy lately, I saw kz released a lot of new earphones, I wanted to ask which ones are fun/ which ones should I buy. I currently own ZST, ATR, ED9, ZSE, ZS6. Thanks alot!


The *KZ ED16* will take you where no man's gone before! ...It's definitely full of fun!


----------



## SciOC

Slater said:


> They very well may be.
> 
> KZs use 0.75mm pins. Most non-KZ 2-pin plugs use 0.78mm pins. Assuming they are 0.78mm, it will be a ridiculously tight fit to get the plugs in the socket, but it is possible. Keep in mind that when you are done, however, the KZ socket will be permanently stretched, so from that point on only 0.78mm cables will fit (ie you will no longer be able to use KZ-compatible cables, as they will fall right out).


Have you actually experienced this? I know in theory I think this as well, but in practice I've always been fine going back to my. 75mm cables after using. 78mm on them.


----------



## 1clearhead

DocHoliday said:


> Feedback like this is what makes this thread so important.
> 
> Also, it sounds like the ED16/ZS7 has one-upped the ZSR which is very encouraging because the ZSR is very, very good.
> 
> ...


Yup! Still got the Magaosi M3 in my list! They are definitely underated and was overlooked by many because of one bad apple on Amazon that wrote that they were bad only because he had a hard time from that seller, which had nothing to do with the sound of the M3's. He didn't make sense at all.

I personally rate the M3 above URBANFUN.


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

SciOC said:


> Have you actually experienced this? I know in theory I think this as well, but in practice I've always been fine going back to my. 75mm cables after using. 78mm on them.



I have, yes. Ever since then I just stick with 0.75mm cables from KZ and TRN.

It may not happen to everyone, on every IEM, every time. But I didn't feel like taking the risk.

Plus, KZ and TRN cables are super affordable and decent quality. Sure, KZ doesn't make any balanced cables (or at least they didn't at 1st), but a lot of people just cut the 3.5mm plug off of KZ cables and solder on a new jack (rewiring the end for balanced).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CardigdanWalk said:


> Only positive is that my other similar KZ product in that colour has turned green, so at least I won’t have to worry about that!


What's wrong with the cable going green? It adds character.


----------



## rayliam80

Slater said:


> Nice job
> 
> You didn't want to buff them, so they are shiny and glossy? The buffing block looks just like the sanding blocks. It just has some sort of polishing surface that gets rid of all the sanding marks and makes it look like polished glass.
> 
> ...



Is the buffing block another block from Sally or is on one of the sides of each block? I was a bit confused when buying them honestly since the Sally location I went to was a bit all over the place in the nail section and blocks weren't in the right compartments I think. 

I also have a KZ ATE too. I may also dull out the shine of the CM5 and see how that looks too. 

I've been wanting to do this for some time and glad I finally got around to doing it. Thanks again!


----------



## Aparker2005

Love that the ES3 is still getting some love on here. It's still a favorite of mine, but I'm currently using the ZSR for live music performances and the ZS10 as well. 

I think I'm good between the 3 until the 16s come out. Unless they get a get a good discount upfront, I may wait for reviews before purchasing.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DocHoliday said:


> That would be this puppy.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because ED16 replaced it and it sounds cavernous


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> Is the buffing block another block from Sally or is on one of the sides of each block? I was a bit confused when buying them honestly since the Sally location I went to was a bit all over the place in the nail section and blocks weren't in the right compartments I think.
> 
> I also have a KZ ATE too. I may also dull out the shine of the CM5 and see how that looks too.
> 
> I've been wanting to do this for some time and glad I finally got around to doing it. Thanks again!



It’s a separate block. In my How2 post I showed the buff block along with the label (so people knew what to buy). If you ask the people working there for a nail buffing block, they will know what you are talking about (no matter how much disarray the store is in).

The buff block I bought was a 2-in-1 block. It included a grey “ultra fine” sanding side (which you use 2nd to last), and a smooth white “buff” side (that you use as the very last step).

Those 2 last steps are what give the IEMs the glassy smooth high polished look (and restore them to see-through transparency if the IEM uses a transparent plastic).

Like this:


​
Otherwise, if you skip those last 2 steps you’ll be left with that “satin brushed” look and you lose any transparency (which is fine if that’s the look you’re after).

Like this:

​
As far as the CM5, I’m not sure how well it would work. The CM5 isn’t flat, and has the large ridges/bumps. That would cause some issues I would think.

Finally, you may find that you have more control if you hold the IEM in 1 hand (with the backplate facing you) and the blocks in the other hand. Basically like how women file and buff their nails (nail facing you so you can see what you're doing; sanding/buffing tool in the other hand). That allows you to work on the edges and any contours of the shell, and allows you to watch your progress in real-time as you are doing it.

The method you used (where you set the block on a table and work on the IEM backplate facing down) seems to work great on the totally flat part of the IEM, but makes working the edges and contours impossible (or at least more difficult). You also can’t watch what you’re doing in real-time, and have to keep pausing and turning the IEM over to look at it.

Just a suggestion


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 12, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Because ED16 replaced it and it sounds cavernous



Got it.

Since you have both and are well versed in describing sound how would you best describe the differences between the ED16 and the ZSR? 



1clearhead said:


> Yup! Still got the Magaosi M3 in my list! They are definitely underated and was overlooked by many because of one bad apple on Amazon that wrote that they were bad only because he had a hard time from that seller, which had nothing to do with the sound of the M3's. He didn't make sense at all.
> 
> I personally rate the M3 above URBANFUN.



If my memory serves me correctly the M3 are somewhat reminiscent of the ES3.



 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/reviews

https://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-es3/


----------



## rae39852

anyone have the idea of the KZ upcoming 5 drivers earphones?


----------



## mottykytu

Iss there any comparation betweeen ES4 AND ZTA ? Or the ZTA VS other KZ headphones? I'm looking on the ZTA cause it is now the smallest Hybrid from KZ !


----------



## Slater (Jun 12, 2018)

rae39852 said:


> anyone have the idea of the KZ upcoming 5 drivers earphones?



Since it's not even out, the answer is no one knows anything other than the 1 photo that was shown.

I would say it won't be out until at LEAST 2019, since KZ has already released their whole 2018 lineup. And the "ZSR Pro" (ie later renamed ZS10) was in development for well over 2 years.

Therefore, if you can't wait that long and need something "now", I would suggest buying one of the many other choices readily available.


----------



## zozito

VinceHill24 said:


> Surprisingly they do.
> KZ ZS10 ES4 ZST ZSR 2.5mm silver plated Headphone upgrade wire Earphone High quality Cable 0.75mm Pin DIY Detachable Audio Cord
> http://s.aliexpress.com/eYf2EzI7
> 
> Not sure if you can open the link. It's available fron aliexpress KZ official store


Any advantage using a balanced cable using an ipod classic or xduoo x3? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Turbo AL

audionab said:


> ed16 would be a steal at 17$
> prepare your wallets folks



They're selling for $18 right now at the AK Audio Store.


----------



## rayliam80

Slater said:


> It’s a separate block. In my How2 post I showed the buff block along with the label (so people knew what to buy). If you ask the people working there for a nail buffing block, they will know what you are talking about (no matter how much disarray the store is in).
> 
> The buff block I bought was a 2-in-1 block. It included a grey “ultra fine” sanding side (which you use 2nd to last), and a smooth white “buff” side (that you use as the very last step).
> 
> ...



Ahh yeah I got the satin brush look going then. It still looks pleasing to me, at least. If I head back towards the Beauty Supply soon, I'll look for the buffing block you mentioned in your original post. 

The CM5 came out okay. It was originally black. It has more of a grey, matte finish now and the sparkle is toned down a bit.


----------



## audionab

my kz es4 just arrived the cable is faulty the 0.78mm R connector is inverted
what can i do to correct this problem?


----------



## HungryPanda

Turn it round


----------



## HungryPanda

Same happened to me with ZSA so just got a straight cable and reversed the left


----------



## audionab

HungryPanda said:


> Turn it round


ya i realized a minute ago lol
just a little twist


----------



## Slater

zozito said:


> Any advantage using a balanced cable using an ipod classic or xduoo x3? Thanks in advance.



Neither the ipod classic or xduoo x3 are balanced sources.


----------



## audionab

how do i remove the memory wire from kz es4 cable


----------



## Slater (Jun 13, 2018)

audionab said:


> how do i remove the memory wire from kz es4 cable



Pick at the end of the wire with your fingernail until you expose the bare wire. Then grab it and peel it down like a banana peel. Then when it’s at the very bottom, wiggle the metal wire back and forth numerous times until it snaps off. Then you can just rip off the remaining rubber insulation that was originally covering the memory wire.


----------



## ALBERTZ

Just got the ES4s.  Good, but I still need more bass (I know - I guess I'm a certified basshead).  Which KZ model would be best for bass and noise isolation?  I live in a big city and can't stand all the f'n noise.  I can only cancel it out with bass and an iso.  Thanks.


----------



## jeromeaparis

zozito said:


> Any advantage using a balanced cable using an ipod classic or xduoo x3? Thanks in advance.


There is no balanced output on the X3 ! (and balanced outputs usualy are 2.5mm)


----------



## audionab

ALBERTZ said:


> Just got the ES4s.  Good, but I still need more bass (I know - I guess I'm a certified basshead).  Which KZ model would be best for bass and noise isolation?  I live in a big city and can't stand all the f'n noise.  I can only cancel it out with bass and an iso.  Thanks.


ed16 has noise cancelation you check that out 
for bass you may go for zhiyin z5000


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Since it's not even out, the answer is no one knows anything other than the 1 photo that was shown.
> 
> I would say it won't be out until at LEAST 2019, since KZ has already released their whole 2018 lineup. And the "ZSR Pro" (ie later renamed ZS10) was in development for well over 2 years.
> 
> Therefore, if you can't wait that long and need something "now", I would suggest buying one of the many other choices readily available.



The 5BA will be out much sooner than you expect. Keep your eyes peeled


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

B9Scrambler said:


> The 5BA will be out much sooner than you expect. Keep your eyes peeled



Do you know something that we don't?


----------



## B9Scrambler

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Do you know something that we don't?



Yup, seems like it. Hehehe


----------



## Superluc

B9Scrambler said:


> The 5BA will be out much sooner than you expect. Keep your eyes peeled









Then someone have said 5BA, not 8. Anyway, i don't think to be ready to spend that much on a KZ model.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Superluc said:


> Then someone have said 5BA, not 8. Anyway, i don't think to be ready to spend that much on a KZ model.



Yes, they did say 5BA. One page back  It's supposed to be out sometime in July.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DocHoliday said:


> Got it.
> 
> Since you have both and are well versed in describing sound how would you best describe the differences between the ED16 and the ZSR?
> 
> ...



ZSR bad points

Cavernous stage

Unwanted echo

Extreme boosted mid lower bass and then sudden sub bass rolloff

Unwanted 4kHz dip after irregular 3kHz peak.

Sudden rise after 4kHz dip makes sound sibilant sometime.

Detail retrieval is hazy and sharp(pungent)


ED16 fixed all these issue and I dont want to say ZSR is bad, but compared to ED16, it sounds something like I mentioned up there


----------



## zozito

Slater said:


> Neither the ipod classic or xduoo x3 are balanced sources.


Thank you, mate.


----------



## Zerohour88

B9Scrambler said:


> Yes, they did say 5BA. One page back  It's supposed to be out sometime in July.



the KZ weibo did say something about a July release, though they're supposed to release another model before the 10BA and the 16 driver (maybe also all BA?). Still no pics from them, so take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Zerohour88 said:


> the KZ weibo did say something about a July release, though they're supposed to release another model before the 10BA and the 16 driver (maybe also all BA?). Still no pics from them, so take it with a grain of salt.



The 5BA pre-release ads confirm a July release so we should be safe with that one. Curious which one is coming before it. I also might be able to get the 5BA a little earlier than normal (for me at least, i.e. around the actual release date instead of a month or two late thanks to my location), but that's still up in the air.


----------



## Slater (Jun 13, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> The 5BA pre-release ads confirm a July release so we should be safe with that one. Curious which one is coming before it. I also might be able to get the 5BA a little earlier than normal (for me at least, i.e. around the actual release date instead of a month or two late thanks to my location), but that's still up in the air.



Hopefully they are to going use proper tubes and resistor filters.

I also think a lot of people unfamiliar with the sound of all-BA IEMs are going to buy it and be disappointed at the lack of sub bass.

More than likely a low impedance source will be needed as well. All-BAs don’t always play well with phones. This is why the ZS5 v1 got such poor initial reviews.

We’ll see how it all pans out though.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Hopefully they are to going use proper tubes and resistor filters.



Probably not. If they handle the treble as well as they did on the ZSA they won't need them.


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 13, 2018)

Well I promised initial impressions of the ZS10 relative to the ES4, so here goes my best attempt:

The ZS10, more or less, is an ES4 with less polished low-end, more recessed mids, and a stage that's about as wide but a little more deep than the ES4. Growing the stage did mess up coherency a bit and maybe a little EQ can tighten that up (as well abolish the midbass bleed).

They also seem to be really source-dependent. On my OnePlus 6, they're far bassier than with my Xduoo X3. In the terms of having more presence in the upper midrange, a separate DAP might be a smart idea. Either way, they need more power than what the TRN BT3 cable will provide, so they'll be delegated to wired duty unless I'm listening to material that's more bass-light.


----------



## DocHoliday

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ZSR bad points
> 
> Cavernous stage
> 
> ...



Thank you for your feedback.


----------



## kunaskun

Recently buy the KZ Bluetooth Cable, after read some Google search result that some saying this support APT-X Codec. 

Ordered it and arrived in nicely small white cartoon box, that looks not bad at all. Comes with small micro USB for charging & manual. Installation to ZS6 is simple. The material is just okay, cable and connector definitely the same as ZS6 in the box cable. 

Turn it on to pairing mode, connect to Xiaomi Mi 5s Plus with Lineages OS 15.1, playing some Spotify tunes the sound quality far worse than connect using cable directly. Check Bluetooth setting, no HD Audio option. Disconnect, run CatLog app, connect again, and search Bluetooth, it only run in SBC Codec. Note even AAC. No wonder when playing some Spotify tune the sound quality is not great at all, just like a typical non AAC/APT-X Bluetooth earphone. 

Well, it only worth to connect to other super cheap IEM with removable and compatible connector.


----------



## Slater

kunaskun said:


> Recently buy the KZ Bluetooth Cable, after read some Google search result that some saying this support APT-X Codec.
> 
> Ordered it and arrived in nicely small white cartoon box, that looks not bad at all. Comes with small micro USB for charging & manual. Installation to ZS6 is simple. The material is just okay, cable and connector definitely the same as ZS6 in the box cable.
> 
> ...



Which one did you get? There are 3 different revisions - a Bluetooth 4.1 version, Bluetooth 4.2 version, and a Bluetooth 5.0 version.


----------



## kunaskun

The box and the manual: Bluetooth 4.2..

And I just realized there's the 5.0 version.


----------



## iQEM (Jun 14, 2018)

hi everyone..

i need an advice,
please choose between W6 pro or ATR..and tell me why you choose it?

many thanks in advance..

oh right, i forgot to mention..
i already own W1 pro for about 2 weeks, and yes this budget IEM surprise me..
my son keep asking this for him, so i gonna need a replacement that sound on par or even much more than W1 pro (compare to that option above)..


----------



## C2thew

kunaskun said:


> The box and the manual: Bluetooth 4.2..
> 
> And I just realized there's the 5.0 version.



hmmmm.  I have the same one that you have bluetooth 4.2 however I don't hear any noticeable quality loss as opposed to going wired.  Have you turned your volume up on your phone and then adjusting the volume on your headset?  I'm assumming you have the model that costs around $25 right?


Still waiting for the coveted ZS4's release.  ARGH i want that model so bad.


----------



## kunaskun

C2thew said:


> hmmmm.  I have the same one that you have bluetooth 4.2 however I don't hear any noticeable quality loss as opposed to going wired.  Have you turned your volume up on your phone and then adjusting the volume on your headset?  I'm assumming you have the model that costs around $25 right?
> 
> 
> Still waiting for the coveted ZS4's release.  ARGH i want that model so bad.



Set the volume in device to near max, fiddling the BT volume, no change. 

I buy it from reseller in my country, it only cost about 10USD. I doubt this fake, because the packaging & unit seems legit and looks exactly like in gearbest etc. also the device recognizing it as KZ.


----------



## audionab

imagine KZ making on-ear and over-ear headphones lol


----------



## mbwilson111

audionab said:


> imagine KZ making on-ear and over-ear headphones lol



I think they did.


----------



## B9Scrambler

audionab said:


> imagine KZ making on-ear and over-ear headphones lol



  ​


----------



## audionab

crap i never knew lol


----------



## C2thew

kunaskun said:


> Set the volume in device to near max, fiddling the BT volume, no change.
> 
> I buy it from reseller in my country, it only cost about 10USD. I doubt this fake, because the packaging & unit seems legit and looks exactly like in gearbest etc. also the device recognizing it as KZ.



Does yours look like this one?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...f4ae85f&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0

or this one?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...81f46c8&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## maxxevv

kunaskun said:


> Set the volume in device to near max, fiddling the BT volume, no change.
> 
> I buy it from reseller in my country, it only cost about 10USD. I doubt this fake, because the packaging & unit seems legit and looks exactly like in gearbest etc. also the device recognizing it as KZ.



The quality difference really is dependent on a few things. 
i) The data rate being sent. 
If you're doing 256kbps MP3 (which is decent though not the best of course), then you probably won't get much fidelity loss from "lossy compression"of the BT data packet. But if you were running a 750kbps FLAC file, the compression and thus data loss effects will be more obvious. 
I have a BT 5.0 receiver that I connect to my desktop DAC. The differences in sound output are quite evident the higher the input data rate is as I have actually done A/B testing by switching inputs while listening. 
ii) How well the module can drive your IEMs. 
Some sound better with more power, so not much if noticeable difference. Case in point being the Tin Audio T2 and the ZS10. The former doesn't sound much different with amping or without. The ZS10 does sound different with amping, hence a more powerful input source can influence positively or negatively an IEMs sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

audionab said:


> **** i never knew lol



Wow, you can actually get a bluetooth one now
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ble-Foldable-Headphones-1-2m/32834535456.html


----------



## kunaskun

maxxevv said:


> The quality difference really is dependent on a few things.
> i) The data rate being sent.
> If you're doing 256kbps MP3 (which is decent though not the best of course), then you probably won't get much fidelity loss from "lossy compression"of the BT data packet. But if you were running a 750kbps FLAC file, the compression and thus data loss effects will be more obvious.
> I have a BT 5.0 receiver that I connect to my desktop DAC. The differences in sound output are quite evident the higher the input data rate is as I have actually done A/B testing by switching inputs while listening.
> ...



That's why I'm recheck the codec using CatLog app to assuring and confirmed its SBC, not APT-X. The SBC is not that bad, but once you hear same song in APT-X it will be a surprise, even if it's just ogg 256 file (Spotify high quality stream mode for Premium User). 

Anyway I'm not really surprised though, due to APT-X codec usually only available in CSR made BT chip. It's just my curiosity of something this cheap lol 




C2thew said:


> Does yours look like this one?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...f4ae85f&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0
> 
> or this one?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...81f46c8&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0



The first one. And the 2nd link  isn't it different brand? Mine is KZ.


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 13, 2018)

Started exploring different ways to EQ the ZS10 to make up for some of its flaws and stumbled across an Android app by the name of Neutralizer. I think it's really smart with these since you're basically using your ears to level-match different tones or cancel out anything too bright/boomy. Aiming for something as volume-matched across the range has definitely tamed the hell out of these things, brought the mids to a more even plane, and just overall made them more enjoyable. I added in a photo of the resulting curve; keep in mind that I'm using the silver-plated cable.



Spoiler


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 13, 2018)

I'm burning in some headphones right now and I'm hard-pressed to tell which ones are better than which. They virtually almost all the sound the same. It makes me realize buying $400 in budget headphones was a bad idea. 

I'm using a Zishan Z1 with a Fairchild NE5532 opamp to test and so far the results are: KZ ATR, JBL Synchros E10 (they may be better but they always fall out of my ears, I guess I should try foams?), Rock Zircon, Old KZ with blue cable/Knowledge Zenith on plug, KZ ED7. I also tried KZ ZS3 but I forgot where they go.

To be honest with you all the headphones sound good and there are really only a few nuances that change each from the other. I guess with them maybe using similar factories or parts budget headphones don't really stand out.

* Which music or opamp should I use to test which pair of headphones is better?

** The reason I ask is I want to buy a KZ ES4 but it sounds like a waste of money since all these headphones sound basically the same.


----------



## TJK81

Another one from KZ arrived.
This time grey colored ZSA's.
First and most noticeable thing... Jeeeees... They are soooooo tiiiiiinyyyyyy.
As i have quite large ears and earcanals it's a little bit challenge for me to fit them in place properly.
Soundwise (out of the box), they are IMO similar to ZS6's. They have good bass and sub-bass (yes sub-bass is very good in these). It's not as accurate as on the ZS6's but it's very slightly elevated. Not much, but noticeably.
Mids and soundstage is very similar to ZS6's as well as layering. Instrument separation is not as good as on the ZS6's but still pretty good (IMO due to slightly rolled off treble (maybe 2-4 dB i guess).
As i mentioned the treble spike is not as piercing as on the ZS6's but certain level of sibilance or piercingness is still noticeable especially with silicone tips (for example Spiral dots... Spin Fits never fit me well).
All the way around i find ZSA very good earphones with very good sound signnature and very good build quality (i did not have a problem with QC at all). But as i have a larger ears i'm not able to wear them outside, because i'm worriing they will fall from my ears.


----------



## Bartig

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm burning in some headphones right now and I'm hard-pressed to tell which ones are better than which. They virtually almost all the sound the same. It makes me realize buying $400 in budget headphones was a bad idea.
> 
> I'm using a Zishan Z1 with a Fairchild NE5532 opamp to test and so far the results are: KZ ATR, JBL Synchros E10 (they may be better but they always fall out of my ears, I guess I should try foams?), Rock Zircon, Old KZ with blue cable/Knowledge Zenith on plug, KZ ED7. I also tried KZ ZS3 but I forgot where they go.
> 
> ...


Have you also tried them on a smartphone? Which music program do you use? If Spotify, please select Extreme audio quality. There are a lot of factors.


----------



## themindfreak

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm burning in some headphones right now and I'm hard-pressed to tell which ones are better than which. They virtually almost all the sound the same. It makes me realize buying $400 in budget headphones was a bad idea.
> 
> I'm using a Zishan Z1 with a Fairchild NE5532 opamp to test and so far the results are: KZ ATR, JBL Synchros E10 (they may be better but they always fall out of my ears, I guess I should try foams?), Rock Zircon, Old KZ with blue cable/Knowledge Zenith on plug, KZ ED7. I also tried KZ ZS3 but I forgot where they go.
> 
> ...


I swapped my Muses8920 for a NE5532 op amp on a DIY'ed aliex dac/amp and the resolution became worse with more noise.. Maybe muses8920 might help you, or if you can spend more maybe the muses 01/02. Best is to check the opamp thread


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 13, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Have you also tried them on a smartphone? Which music program do you use? If Spotify, please select Extreme audio quality. There are a lot of factors.


I'll never use a smartphone to listen to music so I don't see the point of testing these headphones on one. I'm really old school. I prefer a portable music player. The ones I have are Colorfly C3, Benjie S5, Zishan Z1, Zishan Z3, Walnut v2.2 and Walnut V2S.

As you can tell I like to waste money. I'm trying to fix that... For now, I guess with the $600+ dollars wasted on budget players and headphones I can help someone out:

They're all the same, just buy a couple pairs of headphones and a single music player with changeable opamp and roll with it. I saved you $100's of dollars.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

neo_styles said:


> Started exploring different ways to EQ the ZS10 to make up for some of its flaws and stumbled across an Android app by the name of Neutralizer. I think it's really smart with these since you're basically using your ears to level-match different tones or cancel out anything too bright/boomy. Aiming for something as volume-matched across the range has definitely tamed the hell out of these things, brought the mids to a more even plane, and just overall made them more enjoyable. I added in a photo of the resulting curve; keep in mind that I'm using the silver-plated cable.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Actually @audionab  discovered it, and I was the one who used it in the beginning.


Basic professional level Eq can be reached.

Go to completely silent room


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 13, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm burning in some headphones right now and I'm hard-pressed to tell which ones are better than which. They virtually almost all the sound the same. It makes me realize buying $400 in budget headphones was a bad idea.
> 
> I'm using a Zishan Z1 with a Fairchild NE5532 opamp to test and so far the results are: KZ ATR, JBL Synchros E10 (they may be better but they always fall out of my ears, I guess I should try foams?), Rock Zircon, Old KZ with blue cable/Knowledge Zenith on plug, KZ ED7. I also tried KZ ZS3 but I forgot where they go.
> 
> ...


Burson v6 vivid...try this op amp


Or Texas opa1688 package chip if you can mod.


Burson v6 vivid is complete overkill solid-state based op amp with pure class A sequence.


It means class A sound with op amp efficiency.

I had burson v5d and it blew my socks of. It made me feel that the world is very big. I am not defining soundstage, soundstage is not present here but a sound world.

According to burson, they claim that nothing is added by this op amp. It does the work of what an op amp should do, amplify the signal.


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Actually @audionab  discovered it, and I was the one who used it in the beginning.
> 
> 
> Basic professional level Eq can be reached.
> ...


30hz 8khz and 16khz are harder to hear in a noisy or slightly noisy room


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Burson v6 vivid...try this op amp


I want to and I will eventually. But that opamp costs me $70.00. It's hard to justify the cost when I've heard other people say sometimes they prefer another opamp other than that one. It's not often, but it happens. I will buy that opamp, just not soon.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want to and I will eventually. But that opamp costs me $70.00. It's hard to justify the cost when I've heard other people say sometimes they prefer another opamp other than that one. It's not often, but it happens. I will buy that opamp, just not soon.


It actually justify its prices.

They are pinnacle of what an op amp can be


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Burson v6 vivid...try this op amp
> 
> Or Texas opa1688 package chip if you can mod.
> 
> ...


I want to try the OPA1688 if someone could put one up on E-bay and I could buy that, that'd be awesome.  I'd also like to try 2209 if someone helps me out tho.

I will search for someone local with Burson opamps to test out, because right now I can't see why I would spend $190.00 in my currency to buy a Vivid, sorry. Especially since it's not portable. I might have forgot to mention but I've already wasted $600+ on this hobby. (Wasted, because I bought budget and not TOTL)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dhruvmeena96 said:


> It actually justify its prices.
> 
> They are pinnacle of what an op amp can be


I trust that the V5I is worth it, I really do. I just can't throw any more massive amounts of money into this hobby and Burson products would send me that way.

I need to sell some of my headphones/players/opamps before I can move on to TOTL (Burson, not budget, etc). I never mentioned all the on-ears and over-ears headphones I bought as well.


----------



## C2thew

kunaskun said:


> That's why I'm recheck the codec using CatLog app to assuring and confirmed its SBC, not APT-X. The SBC is not that bad, but once you hear same song in APT-X it will be a surprise, even if it's just ogg 256 file (Spotify high quality stream mode for Premium User).
> 
> Anyway I'm not really surprised though, due to APT-X codec usually only available in CSR made BT chip. It's just my curiosity of something this cheap lol
> 
> ...



The 2nd one (the one I have) is the TRN brand which is compatible with the KZ headsets has a significantly better battery life then the first one linked.  It very much could be that your audio source is the key factor for the sound quality difference.  I can't attest which one is better because I own the 2nd one due to the fact of the longer battery life/positive reviews.


----------



## gazzington

So I see aliexpress sale starts tomorrow. I love the zsa, is it worth getting the zs10 on a sale price?


----------



## chechu21

Hello! Wich means coherence about drivers?


----------



## Bartig

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'll never use a smartphone to listen to music so I don't see the point of testing these headphones on one. I'm really old school. I prefer a portable music player. The ones I have are Colorfly C3, Benjie S5, Zishan Z1, Zishan Z3, Walnut v2.2 and Walnut V2S.
> 
> As you can tell I like to waste money. I'm trying to fix that... For now, I guess with the $600+ dollars wasted on budget players and headphones I can help someone out:
> 
> They're all the same, just buy a couple pairs of headphones and a single music player with changeable opamp and roll with it. I saved you $100's of dollars.


So yeah, your players are allright, but budget IEMs made a huge step. Just take any IEM of my top 5 in my signature and we’ll talk again. 



gazzington said:


> So I see aliexpress sale starts tomorrow. I love the zsa, is it worth getting the zs10 on a sale price?


No, because the ZSA is like a more balanced, less fatiguing tuned version of the ZS10.


----------



## CYoung234

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Actually @audionab  discovered it, and I was the one who used it in the beginning.
> 
> 
> Basic professional level Eq can be reached.
> ...



Two things. First, I installed equalizer on my Nexus 6p. I had to uninstall Ainur Sauron and the Dirac HW mods to get it to work. I take it you just use this with test tones to create a profile for the iems you are using? I see you say to do this in a silent room, which is a nice idea, but will be difficult where I live. But, I am going to try it out, although I have been quite happy with my setup before.

Second, with the Aliexpress sale starting tomorrow, do you have a clear recommendation between the ed16 and ES4? I have everything in my sig, and also have and like the ZS10 a lot. Thanks.


----------



## GrassFed (Jun 13, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Started exploring different ways to EQ the ZS10 to make up for some of its flaws and stumbled across an Android app by the name of Neutralizer. I think it's really smart with these since you're basically using your ears to level-match different tones or cancel out anything too bright/boomy. Aiming for something as volume-matched across the range has definitely tamed the hell out of these things, brought the mids to a more even plane, and just overall made them more enjoyable. I added in a photo of the resulting curve; keep in mind that I'm using the silver-plated cable.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Just tried Neutralizer and really like it. Thank you! Just got a pair of FMJ Z4 that's mid forward, making symphonic music sound busy. Plus boomy bass. Neutralizer totally cleans it up. It works with Tidal too. Tried a bunch of equalizers on Android, and nothing ever worked this well.

Regarding the Z4 - http://a.co/e7UHMs0, they're good if you like strong mid and don't have fit problem with this over the ear style. Which I do. Out of the box it's hard for me to find the right fit - it's either no bass or very boomy bass. They're great for the $10 price a couple days ago, now they're back to $20. If they sound netralized straight out of the box I'd say they're top notch for $20 - for my taste. It could be the untouched sound signature just isn't my cup of tea. I only adjusted the curve only a couple dbs though, so they're still a great buy.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 13, 2018)

CYoung234 said:


> Two things. First, I installed equalizer on my Nexus 6p. I had to uninstall Ainur Sauron and the Dirac HW mods to get it to work. I take it you just use this with test tones to create a profile for the iems you are using? I see you say to do this in a silent room, which is a nice idea, but will be difficult where I live. But, I am going to try it out, although I have been quite happy with my setup before.
> 
> Second, with the Aliexpress sale starting tomorrow, do you have a clear recommendation between the ed16 and ES4? I have everything in my sig, and also have and like the ZS10 a lot. Thanks.


Yep, I too had to delete ainur sauron to get it to work

ES4 for more consumer balanced tuning V shape

ED16 for more vibrant enjoyable V shape with more stage


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 13, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yep, I too had to delete ainur sauron to get it to work
> 
> ES4 for more consumer balanced tuning V shape
> 
> ED16 for more vibrant enjoyable V shape with more stage



I don't listen to EDM at all.  The music I like requires good mids.... rock, blues, singer songwriters, folk, indie, world music, and more.  I love the ED16 so it is weird to me that you call it V shape.  When people say V shape it sounds to me like it would be horrible for my music.   With the ED16, vocals sound natural to me as do acoustic instruments.  But what do I know...


----------



## CYoung234 (Jun 13, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yep, I too had to delete ainur sauron to get it to work
> 
> ES4 for more consumer balanced tuning V shape
> 
> ED16 for more vibrant enjoyable V shape with more stage



Oh, I should have noted that my tastes in music are progressive rock (Genesis, Steve Hackett, Peter Gabriel), a little dubstep, like Lindsey Stirling, some jazz, some rock that is hard to categorize, probably indie, like the Jezebels, Tears for Fears, some acoustic, som pop, like Sia, a lot of big symphonic music, like Mahler, Bruckner, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, etc. Soundstage and air are important, so it sounds like maybe the ED16 would be a better choice. That said, I just used Neutralizer, and like it so far. I made a profile for my ZS10s so far...


----------



## eruditass (Jun 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't listen to EDM at all.  The music I like required good mids.... rock, blues, singer songwriters, folk, indie, world music, and more.  I love the ED16 so it is weird to me that you call it V shape.  When people say V shape it sounds to me like it would be horrible for my music.   Vocals sound natural to me as do acoustic instruments.  But what do I know...



From what I've seen (going based off of peoples reviews and FR plots), it's the treble part of the V extends to upper mids, where you'll hear guitars, female vocals, etc.  It's the rest of mids that seem to be recessed, which many people don't care for.  It's where the body of the vocals (especially male vocals), guitars, etc are.  It's hard to do right, if that range is too boosted it's very obviously muddy and not clear, so being recessed is pretty safe, and is typical of the KZ sound.  PLUS: everyone's ears are different, and many of these regions are shaped differently by everyone's unique pinna, which IEMs bypass, and ear resonances.  So what might sound natural to some, sound hollow to others.

ES4's are below:







Note that it's hard to measure treble reliably with all the resonances, and the peaks/valleys beyond ~8KHz are normal.  Plus there should be some sort of peak around 2~8 KHz of a certain magnitude, but perhaps not this big.  Look up Harman Target Curve if you're interested in learning more.

Also, non-flat impedance curves can effect the frequency response if the source has a high output impedance.  Non-flat curves are typically worse with multi-driver IEMs.  Lastly, volume effects the perception: see equal loudness curves.  The same person that  hears a V shaped sound signature at high volume will find it to be flat at a lower volume, and vice versa.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Bartig said:


> So yeah, your players are allright, but budget IEMs made a huge step. Just take any IEM of my top 5 in my signature and we’ll talk again.
> *IEM Favorites*: 1. RN QT2 - 2. ZhiYin Z5000 - 3. KZ ZSR - 4. Tin Audio T2 - 5. Yersen FEN-2000 - 6. KZ ES4 - 7. TRN V20 - 8. KZ ATE - 9. Malloom Water Drop - 10. KZ ZS5


I own the TRN-V20 and the KZ-ATR which is supposed to be a better KZ-ATE so that leaves me with the ES4, ZS5, ZSR and a couple other brands in your sig. I want to buy the ES4. I will check your other sig 'phone reviews.


----------



## westsenkovec

I'm getting the ZS6 so I thought I might as well get the upgraded cable since I remember reading that the difference is noticeable. I found two versions on gearbest. Which one should I get? 
I remember seeing the silver cable with metal connectors. Is that version only available through aliexpress and is it the same or better?


----------



## Vestat

westsenkovec said:


> I'm getting the ZS6 so I thought I might as well get the upgraded cable since I remember reading that the difference is noticeable. I found two versions on gearbest. Which one should I get?
> I remember seeing the silver cable with metal connectors. Is that version only available through aliexpress and is it the same or better?


Remember that there are many different opinions regarding the upgraded cable.. Some says it provides better sound quality, some says not.
In my personal experience, there is no sensible sound change. The upgrade is, at least for me, just about the comfort and fit that the cable provides. give it a try, it's just a few bucks.. but do not expect impressive changes.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I don't listen to EDM at all.  The music I like requires good mids.... rock, blues, singer songwriters, folk, indie, world music, and more.  I love the ED16 so it is weird to me that you call it V shape.  When people say V shape it sounds to me like it would be horrible for my music.   With the ED16, vocals sound natural to me as do acoustic instruments.  But what do I know...


+1 ...It's really hard-pressed that they should be referred as V shape when so much MID and vocal presentation stands out on them. Breaking them in for almost 80 hours, I can only marvel on the true quality interior set-up with the dynamic and BA armature combination KZ produced in these in-ear earphones presenting such an indulging and more of a balanced sound signature.

These are a winner for Knowledge Zenith!

PS. Now, if they can only house it in an alloy/metal shell, surely I'll be the first to jump on them! 


-Clear


----------



## dhruvmeena96

V shape doesn't mean that mids are recessed

V shape means that bass dB boost starts early(150Hz to 200Hz) and treble gets dB boost start early(somewhere above 3kHZ to 6kHz).

U shape means bass boost starts at 100hz and treble may be on higher region like 8kHz to 9kHz.


LoL

It is not related to recessed mids at all

Hyla ce5 is the king of all v shape(in good terms) and doesn't sound anything like mid recessed.

And when recessed mids, I will mention deep v shape or mention recessed mids.


Both ED16 and ES4 are not recessed in mids.


One more thing, you see a 5kHz dip, that is intentional as most of the people in ear resonance is actually there. That is specific region where ear drum damping is weak.

And 3kHz is frequency where damping is highest


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Guys, @CoiL sensei did his iBasso it01 mod. And it looks way more amazing than his old mods.

Check it out 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-mod-collective-bring-all-your-iem-mods-here.867486/

OpenBack wood iBasso it01


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

How do can I make wearing the earphones a better a experience? I have a feeling they will fall off even when they're around my ears.


----------



## audionab

i think neutralizer doesn't work with Spotify and SoundCloud because somehow those apps have there own decoding or something


----------



## audionab

VibrantHarmonics said:


> How do can I make wearing the earphones a better a experience? I have a feeling they will fall off even when they're around my ears.


use bigger eartips use the open jaw technique for insertion of earphones


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> PS. Now, if they can only house it in an alloy/metal shell, surely I'll be the first to jump on them!


What do you like about metal shell's so much? I'm always disappointed by an earbud in a shell like that.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

audionab said:


> i think neutralizer doesn't work with Spotify and SoundCloud because somehow those apps have there own decoding or something


LoL...

Both viper and neutraliser working

Lol
Hahahahhahaha
ROFL


I got ya

Well its working actually.

If you are rooted, then audio compatibility patch on magisk does wonder


KZ ES4 is the best IEM KZ made.

And I am serious

It is jack of all trade with a little mastery over imaging and layering with nice speed on bass


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> LoL...
> 
> Both viper and neutraliser working
> 
> ...


most of the users here might be non-rooted so it doesn't work with them
i am really liking my kz es4 though


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ ES4 is the best IEM KZ made.
> And I am serious
> It is jack of all trade with a little mastery over imaging and layering with nice speed on bass


I`ll try to come up with something about it when I get mine (teal color with no mic). Probably some wood-tweaking again


----------



## audionab

CoiL said:


> I`ll try to come up with something about it when I get mine (teal color with no mic). Probably some wood-tweaking again


will be looking forward for your mod

why you still have north forest as incoming in your signature

any mods for north forest


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jun 14, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> LoL...
> 
> Both viper and neutraliser working
> 
> ...




What music are you listening to? Cause for me the ES4 are the worst IEMs I own for complex tracks and especially for metal. Drums sound unnatural, cymbals lack definition, voice and electric guitars mix in a very unpleasant way. If I listen to my studio monitors then switch to the ES4, they sound totally unnatural and not clear. The ZS6 and even ZS10 are far better for this.


----------



## CoiL

audionab said:


> why you still have north forest as incoming in your signature
> any mods for north forest


Thanks for notice, I totally forgot it (will fix my signature right away). RNF is already given away as I didn`t like it, one of the worst disappointments this year. 

Btw, this is KZ thread, lets keep it on topic


----------



## audionab (Jun 14, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Thanks for notice, I totally forgot it (will fix my signature right away). RNF is already given away as I didn`t like it, one of the worst disappointments this year.
> 
> Btw, this is KZ thread, lets keep it on topic


well this is sad i wanted you to mod them nvm and i'll try some things on my own then
i will receive the replacement by tomorrow (was my mistake)
i will receive my comply tips today and will try them out on es4


----------



## dhruvmeena96

HerrXRDS said:


> What music are you listening to? Cause for me the ES4 are the worst IEMs I own for complex tracks and especially for metal. Drums sound unnatural, cymbals lack definition, voice and electric guitars mix in a very unpleasant way. If I listen to my studio monitors then switch to the ES4, they sound totally unnatural and not clear. The ZS6 and even ZS10 are far better for this.


Yours have QC issue


ZS10 is the worst iem I have listened to

Followed by ZS6


ZS10, hollow sound no focus, bathroom stage and weird treble rolloff

ZS6 is the high treble boost on steroids, that sounds completely artificial boosted treble.

KZ ES4 may not full fill studio requirements, but zs10 doesn't even reach consumer level. It only has that big stage wow factor.

ZS6 can be used, just put foam on both BA or do @Slater mod.


KZ ES4 sounds musical and organic, not studio ish.



And may I know your studio monitor....if you have M50x, then I think you may be happy with ZS10 and ZS6.

M40x guys would follow my suggestion


----------



## maxxevv

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yours have QC issue
> 
> 
> ZS10 is the worst iem I have listened to
> ...



Sounds like you're the one having QC issues with the ZS10.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

maxxevv said:


> Sounds like you're the one having QC issues with the ZS10.


I replaced zs10 twice, and it sounded same.

Well I will say enjoyable but not accurate...

You can say you can enjoy but its weird on air of and female vocal

And the stage echo on Scarborough fair Japanese version(shummatsu Mani)


----------



## vladstef

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yours have QC issue
> 
> 
> ZS10 is the worst iem I have listened to
> ...



I agree with this ZS10 description and mine was probably fine given that both sides had the same measured frequency response. I think it has an ok treble that isn't that rolled off, but hollow sounding with weird soundstage is deffinitely true for me. Bass was also not impressive at all, bloated and slow. The redeeming factor is good amounts of details but that is not enough to make them good overall.


----------



## loomisjohnson

guys:
if, in a moment of weakness, i were to buy the kz zs4 or ed16, what are the best prices on ali today?


----------



## HerrXRDS

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yours have QC issue
> 
> 
> ZS10 is the worst iem I have listened to
> ...




I was talking about monitor speakers. For headphones I'm using Q701 or DT990 most of the time. But even my Apple earpods sound better for metal. For example on this song the drums have no definition with the ES4.


----------



## CoiL

loomisjohnson said:


> guys:
> if, in a moment of weakness, i were to buy the kz zs4 or ed16, what are the best prices on ali today?


You meant ES4 not ZS4 ? 
Or... is ZS4 already out?


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 14, 2018)

HerrXRDS said:


> I was talking about monitor speakers. For headphones I'm using Q701 or DT990 most of the time. But even my Apple earpods sound better for metal. For example on this song the drums have no definition with the ES4.



What are you for real

Apple earpods....

OK for a moment, DT990 and akg may sound bad as heck ...but seriously
earpods

@audionab help this guy getting some enlightenment hahahahah..


You are used to 5kHz, that's why the natural dip may sound unnatural....that's all

Do some sine test on waves


And then check your ear is to much damped at 5kHz, you listened songs at loud volume and that to complex tracks having snares....am I right


This issue can be solved by getting earplugs while you sleep or when you are alone....getting ear cleaned by doctor and getting some ear drops or oil, for ear....


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> You meant ES4 not ZS4 ?
> Or... is ZS4 already out?


Its ES4


----------



## loomisjohnson

CoiL said:


> You meant ES4 not ZS4 ?
> Or... is ZS4 already out?


yes, es4


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> What are you for real
> 
> Apple earpods....
> 
> ...


can't be helped its his own opinion and taste the lack of bass in earpods help with such judgment


----------



## maxxevv

loomisjohnson said:


> guys:
> if, in a moment of weakness, i were to buy the kz zs4 or ed16, what are the best prices on ali today?



The best prices are US$12.50 and US$18.00 respectively. But they are both only seen on the phone app, computer based web browser won't show you those prices.


----------



## mosz

ZSA price didn't change since yesterday.


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> guys:
> if, in a moment of weakness, i were to buy the *KZ ES4* *AND* *ED16*, what are the best prices on ali today?





maxxevv said:


> The best prices are US$12.50 and US$18.00 respectively. But they are both only seen on the phone app, computer based web browser won't show you those prices.



Good prices loomis....


----------



## loomisjohnson

i


mbwilson111 said:


> Good prices loomis....


you are truly evil. and i am truly weak.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 14, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> you are truly evil



Did I forget to mention that?



loomisjohnson said:


> and i am truly weak.



I am strong!  I do not have an ES4...but if it came in red...to match my ZS10...

...holding out for the purple one...yet to be released...

this one:


----------



## KipNix

CYoung234 said:


> Oh, I should have noted that my tastes in music are progressive rock (Genesis, Steve Hackett, Peter Gabriel)... That said, I just used Neutralizer


Thanks for the tip about Neutralizer. I like the same bands, and they demand good freqs across the board.


----------



## KainHighwind (Jun 14, 2018)

Ali is having mid year sale, and ZS10, Tinaudio T2 is about the same price at about $35, I really want to buy one more, I currently have ZS5v2. ZS6, ES4, E-MI C880 and like C880 the most, which of the three would you recommend to buy in this sale? I want a different sounding and an upgrade over C880, thanks!


----------



## KipNix

loomisjohnson said:


> guys:
> if, in a moment of weakness...


Mr Johnson, just remember this hobby is less costly than collecting classic cars.


----------



## Aparker2005

Hey guys. I may have asked this already can't remember. But with the sale going on, I'm curious.

I currently use the ZSR for live performances. Love the low end they give my drums. I also have the zs10 but haven't used them much live. 

I keep hearing great things about the Es4. For those that have both, is there much difference between the Es4 and zsr? 

I have es3 also that are backups to both my zsr and zs10. Just don't want to buy something and not have too much difference is all. Thanks!


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What do you like about metal shell's so much? I'm always disappointed by an earbud in a shell like that.


An alloy type metal will last you longer, if taken care of. I've experienced many cracks on plastic-type earphones after several years, even if it was lightly used.


----------



## loomisjohnson (Jun 14, 2018)

KipNix said:


> Mr Johnson, just remember this hobby is less costly than collecting classic cars.


we're at war with canada so i can't interact with you lest i commit treason


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 14, 2018)

KainHighwind said:


> Ali is having mid year sale, and ZS10, Tinaudio T2 is about the same price at about $35, I really want to buy one more, I currently have ZS5v2. ZS6, ES4, E-MI C880 and like C880 the most, which of the three would you recommend to buy in this sale? I want a different sounding and an upgrade over C880, thanks!


That's easy...get the *ACZ KR06-6* 

Overall, excellent hi-end details/micro-details, crystal clear MID's, and fast punchy bass with excellent soundstage and resolution. Plus, detachable cables!

Link...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e-SWEET-vocal-sound-Earplug/32880176633.html?


----------



## eruditass (Jun 14, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> You are used to 5kHz, that's why the natural dip may sound unnatural....that's all
> 
> Do some sine test on waves
> 
> ...



Do you have any links/references on the lack of ear damping at 5kHz?

I'm not finding any of this information, in fact the Harman Target Curve shows that we want a 5kHz spike, especially when comparing In-Ear to On-Ear.  This implies the pinna resonates around 5kHz, and we would expect a boost here with IEMs that bypass it.  Relevant publications: 1 2 3 4.  Also corroborates with the pinna-related transfer function method.

EDIT: you may be referring to the ear canal resonance from 7-10kHz that is ear canal depth + insertion depth dependent, and shows up in all IEM plots here but that is noticeably separate, and not something they should really try to compensate for, and they don't, as seen by the KZ plots here, as well as thephonograph and audiobudget, all which have slightly different peaks as expected.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> we're at war with canada so i can't interact with you lest i commit treason


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> we're at war with canada so i can't interact with you lest i commit treason



I always thought you were in the UK.  Am I mistaken?


----------



## loomisjohnson

no, the usa, which useta be a pretty good place before those canadians ruined it with their dairy tariffs


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> no, the usa, which useta be a pretty good place before those canadians ruined it with their dairy tariffs



so that is what ruined it... hmmmm....ok.....


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like KZ have gone down the Type C route.


----------



## WildSeven (Jun 14, 2018)

Just received my TRN Bluetooth 2 pin cable, I got the one with Apt-x.
The connection is very good, during 6 hours listen I've only noticed 3 short cuts, no hiss and interference.
I originally bought it for my ZS6 but it turns out that ZS10 sounds much better with it, I think these two will get married forever.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jun 14, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> no, the usa, which useta be a pretty good place before those canadians ruined it with their dairy tariffs



that's ok, after what Lebron did to Toronto, that evens it out



KainHighwind said:


> Ali is having mid year sale, and ZS10, Tinaudio T2 is about the same price at about $35, I really want to buy one more, I currently have ZS5v2. ZS6, ES4, E-MI C880 and like C880 the most, which of the three would you recommend to buy in this sale? I want a different sounding and an upgrade over C880, thanks!



T2 is an upgrade over C880 (or Estron C630, as the original naming goes), but its quite similar sounding.


----------



## TJK81

After few hours spent with ES4's i have to admit...
ES4 IS THE BEST KZ ALLROUNDER I HAVE.
Really very well tuned KZ's.


----------



## DocHoliday

loomisjohnson said:


> we're at war with canada so i can't interact with you lest i commit treason





 

Priceless!


----------



## oneula

TJK81 said:


> After few hours spent with ES4's i have to admit...
> ES4 IS THE BEST KZ ALLROUNDER I HAVE.
> Really very well tuned KZ's.



maybe its me
but the bass from the ES4 and other KZs give me a headache
maybe its for young ears

The bass just overwhelms everything else
am I imagining this?


----------



## Slater

oneula said:


> maybe its me
> but the bass from the ES4 and other KZs give me a headache
> maybe its for young ears
> 
> ...



I don't think you're imagining a headache. If you say it gives you a headache, we have to believe you right?


----------



## TJK81

oneula said:


> maybe its me
> but the bass from the ES4 and other KZs give me a headache
> maybe its for young ears
> 
> ...


I have got plenty of KZ's models. There are some difficult to listen to models (ZS6, ZS5v2, ZST) which makes me uncomfortable to listen to them. This do not happen with ES4's. And i am 37. And have to say i am treble senstitive.
For me they are really good.


----------



## monitoringsound70

I have the ES3 and adore the treble on those. Very musical but slightly rolled off. Just gorgeous to listen to. 
I'll definitely be trying the ES4 very soon.

Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Zs3 completely going the other way for a lush rich route and different sound sig. 
But once again with rolled off highs, which is good.


----------



## Slater

monitoringsound70 said:


> I have the ES3 and adore the treble on those. Very musical but slightly rolled off. Just gorgeous to listen to.
> I'll definitely be trying the ES4 very soon.
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on a pair of Zs3 completely going the other way for a lush rich route and different sound sig.
> But once again with rolled off highs, which is good.



Make sure you consider the foam mod to improve the sound. The ZS3 needs all the help it can get.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Make sure you consider the foam mod to improve the sound. The ZS3 needs all the help it can get.



I need help with my ZST... it sounds harsh to my ears.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Slater said:


> Make sure you consider the foam mod to improve the sound. The ZS3 needs all the help it can get.



Easy to do?


----------



## Qualcheduno

monitoringsound70 said:


> Easy to do?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-1161


----------



## mbwilson111

Qualcheduno said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-1161



The famous "Slater mod"


----------



## Superluc

Zerohour88 said:


> There's some speculation that the ED16 isn't really an official release and that its just something they made and then decided to offload randomly. Assumptions made due to unavailability from official KZ store (both aliexpress and tmall) and the ZS7 markings, meaning it was supposed to released earlier as part of ZS lineup instead of ED.


At the moment even Penon sell them.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Qualcheduno said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-1161


Thank you.


----------



## Superluc

Maybe the originally ZS7 become the ED16 because they have charged the ZS name on the incoming full BA model. Weird, leaving that mark on the ED16, but possible.


----------



## Superluc

If you think about it, this:





resemble more the ZS6 than other models, so can easily be the model who take the ZS7 name.


----------



## Slater

monitoringsound70 said:


> Easy to do?



Yes, extremely easy.

Details are here: http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs3-slater-mod/


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I need help with my ZST... it sounds harsh to my ears.



The ZST mod is here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1858#post-14024416
You'll need some good eyes (or a magnifying glass).

The mod itself is not hard though.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Slater said:


> Yes, extremely easy.
> 
> Details are here: http://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs3-slater-mod/


Excellent Thanks. 
Must admit I'm looking forward to "Rich mids" it was a toss up between these and the ED12. But I just like the isolation factor of these. 
Once again thank you.


----------



## Slater

monitoringsound70 said:


> Excellent Thanks.
> Must admit I'm looking forward to "Rich mids" it was a toss up between these and the ED12. But I just like the isolation factor of these.
> Once again thank you.



Sure, no problem friend.

I have never personally heard the ED12, but from everything I have read the general consensus seems to be that they are


----------



## iQEM

iQEM said:


> hi everyone..
> 
> i need an advice,
> please choose between W6 pro or ATR..and tell me why you choose it?
> ...



anyone?

is it ZSE any good?
so W6 pro, ATR or ZSE?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 14, 2018)

iQEM said:


> anyone?
> 
> is it ZSE any good?
> so W6 pro, ATR or ZSE?



The W6 Pro is not a good pick. The W1 Pro is vastly superior. W6 Pro's build quality is terrible for one (cheap, delicate plastics with sloppy fit and finish), and they're just wayyyyyy too bassy. Only worth buying to donate it's cable and connectors (MMCX) to another earphone, haha.

Imo, ATR is much better than the ZSE. ZSE is decent, but it's sound stage came across quite congested. That stopped me from buying one of my own. Seems like a middle of the road model in the lineup. So yeah, go for the ATR. Good staging, nice build and materials, warm, smooth, and detailed with good end-to-end extension. Best of the AT lineup for me.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 14, 2018)

Slater said:


> Sure, no problem friend.
> 
> I have never personally heard the ED12, but from everything I have read the general consensus seems to be that they are



Out of compassion we try not to talk about her 'round these parts. 



 

ED12:
Bass - the life of the party 
Midrange - the sloppy drunk (shouty);
Treble - never made it to the party.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> I need help with my ZST... it sounds harsh to my ears.


+1 ...the ZST was never my cup of tea (even after trying to mod them). But, that's just me.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DoomzDayz said:


> Do you have any links/references on the lack of ear damping at 5kHz?
> 
> I'm not finding any of this information, in fact the Harman Target Curve shows that we want a 5kHz spike, especially when comparing In-Ear to On-Ear.  This implies the pinna resonates around 5kHz, and we would expect a boost here with IEMs that bypass it.  Relevant publications: 1 2 3 4.  Also corroborates with the pinna-related transfer function method.
> 
> EDIT: you may be referring to the ear canal resonance from 7-10kHz that is ear canal depth + insertion depth dependent, and shows up in all IEM plots here but that is noticeably separate, and not something they should really try to compensate for, and they don't, as seen by the KZ plots here, as well as thephonograph and audiobudget, all which have slightly different peaks as expected.


Linkwitz earphone circuit


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 14, 2018)

iQEM said:


> anyone?
> 
> is it ZSE any good?
> so W6 pro, ATR or ZSE?


The ATR and ZSE are really good picks. They both present good MID to hi-end details, but both have different of type bass texture. But, I personally like the newer version of the KZ HD9 (V2) vividly displaying better details in the MID's and highs while maintaining a solid bass response. The tuning and frequency response has been changed since then from 20~20,000hz to 20~22,000hz.
Hope this helps.


----------



## 1clearhead

DocHoliday said:


> Out of compassion we try not to talk about her 'round these parts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We shouldn't tinker with the "jack-in-the box" 'cause "POP!" goes the ED12's!


----------



## Zerohour88

Superluc said:


> At the moment even Penon sell them.



lol, and somehow still not up on the KZ official store yet. While both ali and taobao store already promoting the coming all-BA model. Which is weird considering people are liking the ED16 too.



Superluc said:


> If you think about it, this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They probably wouldn't use the ZS7 name here, they've already skipped to ZS10. Either a new designation with the ZS tag or a whole new model name entirely.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> T2 is an upgrade over C880 (or Estron C630, as the original naming goes), but its quite similar sounding.


How much of an upgrade if it sounds similar?


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 14, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> We shouldn't tinker with the "jack-in-the box" 'cause "POP!" goes the ED12's!




Yeah, I gave them 3/5 for their warmth and comfort on bed-buddy status but they were pushing 2.5/5.


It's a KZ that not many enjoy spending time with. Sloppy is unattractive.......even with the lipstick and makeup.




 

Never saw fit to pick up the HD9. I couldn't figure out if it was a legit KZ or a collaboration with an unknown. It had KZ's HDS1 "HiFi-X" logo but I wasn't so sure about adding them to the collection. 



Spoiler





 







How would you compare the HD9(v2) to the ATR or HDS1 (mid-forward)?


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How much of an upgrade if it sounds similar?



Hm...that would be hard to quantify, especially since I don't have T2 on hand anymore to A/B. But it definitely sounds cleaner on the mids and treble. Basically, if I needed one or the other, I'd take the T2, especially at the current $36(?) sales price. If there ever was an upgraded version of the T1, I'd take those though. Liked it a bit more than the T2, soundsig much warmer.


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> I personally like the newer version of the KZ HD9 (V2) vividly displaying better details in the MID's and highs while maintaining a solid bass response. The tuning and frequency response has been changed since then from 20~20,000hz to 20~22,000hz.
> Hope this helps.



How to we tell the difference between HD9 v1 and v2? I thought there was only 1 version...


----------



## iQEM

B9Scrambler said:


> The W6 Pro is not a good pick. The W1 Pro is vastly superior. W6 Pro's build quality is terrible for one (cheap, delicate plastics with sloppy fit and finish), and they're just wayyyyyy too bassy. Only worth buying to donate it's cable and connectors (MMCX) to another earphone, haha.
> 
> Imo, ATR is much better than the ZSE. ZSE is decent, but it's sound stage came across quite congested. That stopped me from buying one of my own. Seems like a middle of the road model in the lineup. So yeah, go for the ATR. Good staging, nice build and materials, warm, smooth, and detailed with good end-to-end extension. Best of the AT lineup for me.





1clearhead said:


> The ATR and ZSE are really good picks. They both present good MID to hi-end details, but both have different of type bass texture. But, I personally like the newer version of the KZ HD9 (V2) vividly displaying better details in the MID's and highs while maintaining a solid bass response. The tuning and frequency response has been changed since then from 20~20,000hz to 20~22,000hz.
> Hope this helps.



many thanks for the respond, guys..
then ATR it is..again, thanks...


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 15, 2018)

Slater said:


> How to we tell the difference between HD9 v1 and v2? I thought there was only 1 version...


The details on the MID to high are cleaner and clearer as in the older version it wasn't all there and just meh?. The old version had a little too much bass for me. The new version fixes that up to a "T". They've changed the frequency specs since then as well. I can't tell you if it's a different driver, or not, but since trying the older version with the newer version, it's a no brainer and since then I have gotten' rid of my old one and gifted them.

Who ever gets them might want to double check that the frequency spec reads 20~22,000hz, not 20~20,000hz. Or, confirm it with the online store that it's coming from their newest batch sent from KZ.


----------



## KainHighwind

Zerohour88 said:


> Hm...that would be hard to quantify, especially since I don't have T2 on hand anymore to A/B. But it definitely sounds cleaner on the mids and treble. Basically, if I needed one or the other, I'd take the T2, especially at the current $36(?) sales price. If there ever was an upgraded version of the T1, I'd take those though. Liked it a bit more than the T2, soundsig much warmer.



Do you think it worth to buy T2 for $36 if I already have Ci880? Really like the Ci880 sounding, it just so clear on everything and comfort is great.


----------



## Aparker2005

So I've been testing my 3 pairs of iems tonight (es3,  zsr,  zs10). I have a huge gig coming up this weekend and wanted to have the ear selection ready ahead of time.

With the smallest adjustment on eq, the zs10 I have perform easily the best of the 3. I hear so much more in the music and are the clearest.

The zsr are great but mostly all bass to me. Very good for drums as your monitor, but I think I may go back to the zs10 completely with these as a backup. 

The es3 are a perfect backup to both!


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> The details on the MID to high are cleaner and clearer as in the older version it wasn't all there and just meh?. The old version had a little too much bass for me. The new version fixes that up to a "T". They've changed the frequency specs since then as well. I can't tell you if it's a different driver, or not, but since trying the older version with the newer version, it's a no brainer and since then I have gotten' rid of my old one and gifted them.
> 
> Who ever gets them might want to double check that the frequency spec reads 20~22,000hz, not 20~20,000hz. Or, confirm it with the online store that it's from their newest batch sent from KZ.



Unfortunately I won't have each of the 2 versions to A/B.

So is the best way to tell via the frequency spec (20~22,000hz)? Does it state this on the retail package??


----------



## adkiller

If anyone is looking for 2.5mm balanced cables with the correct connectors for KZ earphones, you can get them here: 
KZ ZS3 ZS5 ZS6 ZST ED12 ZSR Earphone Cable 2.5mm Silver Plated Balancing Cable 0.75mm 2 Pin Cable for KZ Earphone Series
http://s.aliexpress.com/z6ryErqY

Beats having to mod regular KZ cables yourself. Prices look decent too.


----------



## Zerohour88

KainHighwind said:


> Do you think it worth to buy T2 for $36 if I already have Ci880? Really like the Ci880 sounding, it just so clear on everything and comfort is great.



If you really want a significant upgrade that has a different sound-sig, not really. Even the fit is quite similar (with the CI880/C630 fitting easier since its smaller for me). Removable cable might be a factor if you need it to last longer (as usual, mine is the old white cable, I heard the new C630 with black cables are much tougher). 

I want to say you might be better off waiting for the T2 Pro or T3, but since there's no new info on their release, can't really say much.


----------



## KainHighwind

Zerohour88 said:


> If you really want a significant upgrade that has a different sound-sig, not really. Even the fit is quite similar (with the CI880/C630 fitting easier since its smaller for me). Removable cable might be a factor if you need it to last longer (as usual, mine is the old white cable, I heard the new C630 with black cables are much tougher).
> 
> I want to say you might be better off waiting for the T2 Pro or T3, but since there's no new info on their release, can't really say much.



I have the new black cable and it looks tough imo. Maybe I should wait for 11.11 to grab some new earphones  Currently I have a lot and don't think I would use all of them. Thanks for your reply.


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> Currently I have a lot and don't think I would use all of them.



That's an understatement!

NONE of us will use all of the IEMs we have haha


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 15, 2018)

Slater said:


> Unfortunately I won't have each of the 2 versions to A/B.
> 
> So is the best way to tell via the frequency spec (20~22,000hz)? Does it state this on the retail package??


Yup! The new retail package states the new specs.  

They also have it stated at the KZ taobao homepage...

Link...
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...uOIB9&id=568038713823&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail


----------



## KainHighwind

Slater said:


> That's an understatement!
> 
> NONE of us will use all of the IEMs we have haha



Yeah before going chifi, I only have one pair of sound magic and use it for almost 3 years, after knowing KZ and head fi 6 months ago, I have 5 IEMs now


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

This guy is saying that the ES4 sounds similar to the ZST pro:


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 15, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, I gave them 3/5 for their warmth and comfort on bed-buddy status but they were pushing 2.5/5.
> 
> 
> It's a KZ that not many enjoy spending time with. Sloppy is unattractive.......even with the lipstick and makeup.
> ...


Unfortunately, I don't have the HDS1.

....But, I can tell you that the HD9 (v2) has a cleaner presentation of the MID's and highs when compared to the ATR. With the old version, it would have been "vise versa". The bass on the ATR is nice and laid-back, but the bass on the HD9 is punchier and quicker. I find that the new HD9 version has a more overall solid presentation.


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> Yeah before going chifi, I only have one pair of sound magic and use it for almost 3 years, after knowing KZ and head fi 6 months ago, I have 5 IEMs now



Sorry about that. We don't intentionally try to get people addicted LOL!


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

HerrXRDS said:


> What music are you listening to? Cause for me the ES4 are the worst IEMs I own for complex tracks and especially for metal. Drums sound unnatural, cymbals lack definition, voice and electric guitars mix in a very unpleasant way. If I listen to my studio monitors then switch to the ES4, they sound totally unnatural and not clear. The ZS6 and even ZS10 are far better for this.


I'm not sure what you're listening to or comparing with but I listen to a lot of metal and the ES4 is by far the most natural KZ I've heard to date. In comparison the ZSR has a bloated mid-bass, while the ZS10 is just nasal and sounds awful.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@NeonHD 

Try modding brainwavz jive according to james444 mod.

These will literally blow you away.


And yup

Anybody who find ES4 bassy, listen them to low volume


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 15, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I'm not sure what you're listening to or comparing with but I listen to a lot of metal and the ES4 is by far the most natural KZ I've heard to date. In comparison the ZSR has a bloated mid-bass, while the ZS10 is just nasal and sounds awful.


True....

ZS10 is nasal, listen to Scarborough fair OST shumatsu nani at 1:33.

ZSR booms the crap out of me and feels like a cave stage. I get goosebumps from that bass.

ES4 is actually better

ED16 is also better(detail heads and stage heads)

KZ got these 2 right.

Well KZ is like a child in chemistry labs, sometimes getting things right, sometimes a miracle element and sometimes explosion(due to mixing a lot of things).

ZS5 was perfect mix, but somebody told him that one armature is not leading to reaction.

He mixed the other BA and boom....

Then he realised that the BA at back was catalyst and not reagent.


ZS10 is the same. To much of reagent can destroy the lab.

The 50095 armature on dual parallel is strong on nasal frequency.

They should have done

1 dynamic
150095

And dual 30095 on series



@HerrXRDS
You may have QC issue or you are used to too much bright signature and artificial resolution.

Try listening them at lower volume... And get a proper seal


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> That's an understatement!
> 
> NONE of us will use all of the IEMs we have haha



  

...but we try.



Slater said:


> We don't intentionally try to get people addicted LOL!



Does anyone know how to break the addiction?


----------



## hiflofi

Do T200 tips fit the KZ ZS6? I need new tips because the starlines aren't working.


----------



## rayliam80 (Jun 15, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Do T200 tips fit the KZ ZS6? I need new tips because the starlines aren't working.



Comply's compatiblility checker on the website reports that the 500 series are the appropriate tips for the ZST and ZS3 which I own. The ZS6 is not listed there but the ZS5 is. However, any tips that have worked on those have worked on my ZS6's. I have only one pair of Comply tips (included in an IEM I got a long time ago) and it turns out they are 500 series and they do indeed fit my ZS6. I'm just not particularly a fan of foam tips.


----------



## KipNix

mbwilson111 said:


> Does anyone know how to break the addiction?


First, you have to WANT to change. 
But I don't want to, it's too d*mn fun!


----------



## Superluc

hiflofi said:


> Do T200 tips fit the KZ ZS6? I need new tips because the starlines aren't working.


The ZS6 nozzle is bigger, take the T400.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 15, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Does anyone know how to break the addiction?


Break the addiction of KZ hoarding? For me it was trying something else from higher price bracket, namely iBasso IT01.
It brake my KZ-addiction but even then I had to adjust/fine-tune its sound according to my gear & taste with some modding.
So, hope/idea that KZ or whatever brand hoarding will take You to sound-bliss is dead before birth.
But it all will take You closer to understanding what is good SQ and what not, finding out Your own sound preferences, fit requirements (also tip fit), gear matchup (DAC sound signature, amping power) etc.
Did I buy latest ES4 for need? No! Just need something cheap but good SQ for gift and since I have skipped lot latest KZs after ZS5v1, then based on very positive impressions, looks, personal fit requirements, decided to take a try with ES4.
Personally I`m done with chi-fi cheapo hybrids cuz after getting proper QC/SQ brand IEM was kind of revelation - 1DD can do things better almost in every aspect than chi-fi cheapo hybrids.
Would have gone with TinAudio T2 but it didn`t fill tick-box of personal fit requirements.


----------



## Zerohour88

CoiL said:


> Break the addiction of KZ hoarding? For me it was trying something else from higher price bracket, namely iBasso IT01.
> It brake my KZ-addiction but even then I had to adjust/fine-tune its sound according to my gear & taste with some modding.
> So, hope/idea that KZ or whatever brand hoarding will take You to sound-bliss is dead before birth.
> But it all will take You closer to understanding what is good SQ and what not, finding out Your own sound preferences, fit requirements (also tip fit), gear matchup (DAC sound signature, amping power) etc.
> ...



After trying a few high-end stuff, getting a baseline on how much you need to spend to actually reach the point of diminishing return in terms of your hearing was pretty important for me. No point buying a $500 IEM if I can't differentiate it from a $100 one. Of course, arranging a listening session with such gear is kinda hard.

that said, it'd be great if you can test out some of the more obscure chi-fi DIY brands' hybrid (like SK, Skald, Hisenior), you'd be surprised at what 100 bux can buy you


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> Does anyone know how to break the addiction?



Unfortunately, the cure for KZ-fever is to catch something even worse like Ibassoitis, Campfire-contagion, Noble-sickness, or Brainwazv belligerence.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> Unfortunately, the cure for KZ-fever is to catch something even worse like Ibassoitis, Campfire-contagion, Noble-sickness, or Brainwazv belligerence.



oh that would be much more damaging...


----------



## audionab

which comply will fit es4?


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 15, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> .
> ZS10 is the same. To much of reagent can destroy the lab.
> 
> The 50095 armature on dual parallel is strong on nasal frequency.
> ...



If you don't think you will use your ZS10 as is then you could always take one for the team and try one of Slater's mods found here and report back to us.



Spoiler






Slater said:


> OK, so I've spent some serious time working on ZS6 mods.
> 
> _Note that for all of these mods, you 1st use a sewing needle and gently pop off the stainless 'cheese grater' nozzle screen by poking the needle in 1 of the 'cheese grater' holes and lifting it right off. Carefully set them somewhere out of the way where you won't lose it. I recommend setting them on wax paper (sticky side down). It will keep the adhesive portion sticky, and won't let the adhesive get contaminated by dust or dirt while you are working. When you are done with your mods, just use tweeers to put the screen back in the center of the nozzle, and very gently push the screen down with your finger to make the adhesive stick._
> 
> ...









LaughMoreDaily said:


> Old KZ with blue cable/Knowledge Zenith on plug



Is this, perhaps, the KZ in question?




 






Wiljen said:


> Unfortunately, the cure for KZ-fever is to catch something even worse like Ibassoitis, Campfire-contagion, Noble-sickness, or Brainwazv belligerence.


----------



## CoiL

Zerohour88 said:


> that said, it'd be great if you can test out some of the more obscure chi-fi DIY brands' hybrid (like SK, Skald, *Hisenior*), you'd be surprised at what 100 bux can buy you


Yeah, I was little late to Hisenior B5+ and got IT01 before it arrived into focus of around-100$ tier. But I`m totally happy with modified IT01.
But who knows, maybe when I get free money to spend, I can try another 100$ IEM.


----------



## Dickymint

I have the addiction,  spending money on new gear,  terrible addiction! I have a bundle of Trinity gear,  it's good but not great,  I bought some KZ gear and to be honest,  I prefer what I hear from KZ, so far! Also,  I can understand why people use EQ adjustments but I always thought that it is pointless buying a lot of different gear,  if you are going to adjust everything to sound the way you want, or the same as what you have already? To me it sort of negates the reason for buying new gear,  why buy more to adjust it to sound like what you already have?  And, is it possible that what you have become used to, is that which is wrong? Physico babble..... There are more questions than answers!!!


----------



## Slater (Jun 15, 2018)

Dickymint said:


> I have the addiction,  spending money on new gear,  terrible addiction! I have a bundle of Trinity gear,  it's good but not great,  I bought some KZ gear and to be honest,  I prefer what I hear from KZ, so far! Also,  I can understand why people use EQ adjustments but I always thought that it is pointless buying a lot of different gear,  if you are going to adjust everything to sound the way you want, or the same as what you have already? To me it sort of negates the reason for buying new gear,  why buy more to adjust it to sound like what you already have?  And, is it possible that what you have become used to, is that which is wrong? Physico babble..... There are more questions than answers!!!



A lot of people buy different stuff because they DON’T want to EQ.

Or the fit of 1 earphone is better than another.

Or they WANT them to sound different, because they use different gear to listen to different genres (for example neutral for classical, bass heavy for rap, etc.

Or 1 to use for working out (sweat proof, maybe Bluetooth compatible), 1 to keep at you desk at work, and another for using at home.

Everyone has their reasons.


----------



## Dickymint

Yeah,  I agree,  just adding a discussion topic.  I tend not to use EQ at all,  it comes from my old Hi-fi days we it was frowned upon to make adjustments and to have tone controls. Plus, I have so many headphones that I would be constantly making EQ changes depending on which headphone I was using.


----------



## audionab

usually i just cut 4khz 8khz and also cut 125hz and 250hz for cleaner bass and eliminate resonance to some extent


----------



## Bartig (Jun 15, 2018)

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> This guy is saying that the ES4 sounds similar to the ZST pro:






In all honesty: I think TechmanZ is spot on for most of the KZ IEMs. He has one weak spot - for me - and that is he totally loves the ZST’s. I think they are the most fatiguing KZ’s out there, with too little bass and way too piercing highs. He on the other hand, prefers it over the KZ top models and ZSR, for example.

See, that’s ok. To each his own. But when I think he says they’re like the ZST’s, I think he says he likes the ES4 too.

I hope he doesn’t try to say they’re the same. Because they’re absolutely not. The ES4 has delicately tuned down highs and a far more pronounced bass. They aren’t the same at all.

That’s why I like the ES4 so much.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Hope I'm not disturbing the thread in any way but i just got back to my newly delivered ZS3 (Love amazon next day delivery)
Only had about half an hour with them at the moment but first impression out of the box was seemingly vacuum isolation, these things literally disappear in the ear, Fantastic isolation, and the first pair of KZ that I don't have to use large tips just use the medium tip already fitred. 
Definitely the most comfortable for me yet.

Naturally sound wise I'm finding these are definitely bass and mids.... really nice mids actually, Treble is certainly there but very rolled off, although completely without fatigue. But I was expecting that. 
Of course this is just a first impression but I like what I'm hearing. 

Whether I feel the need for better treble I have the mod up my sleeve. (Many thanks to Slater) So I'll continue to to see how they go. 
But definitely impressed so far, especially with the isolation


----------



## SciOC

Slater said:


> A lot of people buy different stuff because they DON’T want to EQ.
> 
> Or the fit of 1 earphone is better than another.
> 
> ...


Or, ya know, a combination of an addictive personality and OCD like me. 

I've never really understood the purists/"don't want to EQ "crowd myself....  If you take audio that seriously, isn't it contradictory to be kind of lazy about getting the best out of your sets?

My es4 are on the way, as well as my, *gulp*, campfire Andromeda....I figured I save $250 buying used andromeda, why not get some kz with my savings....  You can't have too many IEMs after all.

What's sad is that REALLY rich people often treat cars the way we treat KZs....


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> oh that would be much more damaging...


Stop listening to music altogether for a week...
And get some earplugs when you sleep. Brain will reboot and addiction is kept in check.... And its easy for you as you don't listen to technicalities.


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Stop listening to music altogether for a week...
> And get some earplugs when you sleep. Brain will reboot and addiction is kept in check.... And its easy for you as you don't listen to technicalities.



Well I do listen to music and I suspect I have done so for many more years than you have.  A week without music?  I think not!  

The remark about damage referred to the wallet.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Well, EQ is important not to get best out of earphone but to protect the ear from resonant frequency. You guys will become specific sine tone deaf of you go on like this.

Sometimes you think that a certain specific iem or headphone sounded nice when I was a kid and this iem doesn't sound that nice is because when you were kid, you were more sensitive to hypersonic effect as hearing range was higher. I have to increase 16kHz to listenable level on EQ just to get super details out of IEM.

Your ears turn weaker everyday and listening also changes everyday, but is not noticeable.


So try doing some Equalisation of sound


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> Well I do listen to music and I suspect I have done so for many more years than you have.  A week without music?  I think not!
> 
> The remark about damage referred to the wallet.


I know, I was giving rehab to your brain....

LoL


And I was not competing with listening experience. It is actually beneficial to yourself if you are able to control the urges.....

I lived without music for 2months, its painful but well worth it.

I had urge to buy total, like u18t and now I don't...


Transformation


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I know, I was giving rehab to your brain....
> 
> LoL
> 
> ...



I have survived this long listening to music almost everyday..I think I will continue...too much great music still waiting to be discovered. You have no idea how eclectic my taste is.


----------



## GrassFed

Dickymint said:


> Plus, I have so many headphones that I would be constantly making EQ changes depending on which headphone I was using.


Same reason I didn't EQ at all. But this is where Neutralizer app on my LG V20 shines. One profile for each IEM, and switching is painless. And the way it profiles your hearing, by having you set the audible threshold at each freq range, turns out to be very effective. Without that baseline I'll have a hard time EQ anything.


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> ...but we try.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how to break the addiction?


At least this takes the edge off of my much more expensive addiction.... Guitars!


----------



## KainHighwind

Just received my ES4 this morning, first impressing with stock tips is the bass is very bunchy, I listened to some hip hop tracks like Boom Boom Pow, Pump It, Fancy, felt like I was at the party, then listened to some pop songs like My all, We belong together, no more annoying high notes like ZS5v2 and ZS6, but the comfort is a thing to consider, after some minutes, I felt like I had something sticks to my ears and felt a bit discomfort, maybe because for the past several weeks, I get used to the straight shell of CI880, maybe I need time to get used to KZ shell's style again.

And ES4 is not immune to piercing, I noticed some highs when listened to Fancy.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

KainHighwind said:


> Just received my ES4 this morning, first impressing with stock tips is the bass is very bunchy, I listened to some hip hop tracks like Boom Boom Pow, Pump It, Fancy, felt like I was at the party, then listened to some pop songs like My all, We belong together, no more annoying high notes like ZS5v2 and ZS6, but the comfort is a thing to consider, after some minutes, I felt like I had something sticks to my ears and felt a bit discomfort, maybe because for the past several weeks, I get used to the straight shell of CI880, maybe I need time to get used to KZ shell's style again.
> 
> And ES4 is not immune to piercing, I noticed some highs when listened to Fancy.


Well, truly said.
And yah

Graphene diaphragm needs breaking/ burning as they are more conductive to heat changes, for example it01. Try burning and stiffness of bass driver will settle and resonance will go lower leading to reduced and cleaner mid bass with more subbass.

Just use some bass tone sweep for a day and you are done.

After that, do a pink noise burn for a day on loud volume. Somewhat 70% and the Chinese BA will settle, giving a more forgiving sound.


----------



## KainHighwind

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Well, truly said.
> And yah
> 
> Graphene diaphragm needs breaking/ burning as they are more conductive to heat changes, for example it01. Try burning and stiffness of bass driver will settle and resonance will go lower leading to reduced and cleaner mid bass with more subbass.
> ...



Excuse me, how can I perform bass tone weep and pink noise burn in, I have never burn in before because the internet says it isnt neccesary to do so, but it won't hurt so I want to try it, can you give me the instruction how you do it, thanks.


----------



## NeonHD

I literally want to buy the Tin audio T2 right now but this stupid voice inside my head says no


----------



## Slater (Jun 16, 2018)

NeonHD said:


> I literally want to buy the Tin audio T2 right now but this stupid voice inside my head says no



Do you like neutral sound signature? It’s not for everyone. Some find it boring, and the biggest complaint of the T2 is the lack of sub bass. Trying to fix it by taping the vent hole is a ghetto fix, and doesn’t really address the issue without causing new ones.

You could always wait and see what the reviews are like on the T2 Bass Pro and also the T3, as they are supposed to be coming out soon (exactly when I don’t know).

It would suck to get the T2 now, only to kick yourself later, right?


----------



## hydroid

Just received my es4 and immediately paired it with trn cable and wide bore medium size tips of my tennmak piano. Initial impression is it has more bass quantity and tamed highs compared with my first loved kz iem zst. Just like my IT01, i prefer the wide bore tips on the es4. It somehow lessen the bass a bit but still with enough punch on the lower end and reveal some clarity compared with the narrow bore tips I've tried. Will try to burn this in for awhile on my blackberry Q10 and see if there's any significant change.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

KainHighwind said:


> Excuse me, how can I perform bass tone weep and pink noise burn in, I have never burn in before because the internet says it isnt neccesary to do so, but it won't hurt so I want to try it, can you give me the instruction how you do it, thanks.


Actually burn in doesn't change the sound, what it does is remove the mechanical stiffness from various point of impedance graph..

It will change some decay and distortion graph and make the sound a little more smoother and effortless.

No SQ change.

Download 1more burn in app and do burn phases, if not want to get into hassle of proper burn


----------



## eruditass

How is the isolation on the KZ IEMs compared to other IEMs? Is there much variation between them? Looking at the ES4


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

Bartig said:


> In all honesty: I think TechmanZ is spot on for most of the KZ IEMs. He has one weak spot - for me - and that is he totally loves the ZST’s. I think they are the most fatiguing KZ’s out there, with too little bass and way too piercing highs. He on the other hand, prefers it over the KZ top models and ZSR, for example.
> 
> See, that’s ok. To each his own. But when I think he says they’re like the ZST’s, I think he says he likes the ES4 too.
> 
> ...


Lol, the whole comment section now believes that both ZST and ES4 have the same sound signature. Somebody gotta do something about that.


----------



## Bartig

I'm on it!


----------



## Slater

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Lol, the whole comment section now believes that both ZST and ES4 have the same sound signature. Somebody gotta do something about that.



It’s YouTube, what do you expect?


----------



## hydroid (Jun 16, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## dhruvmeena96

ES4 is terrific in isolation.

@ssnjrthgr8 they are same, both are over the top wearing style.


That's all

Hahahhahahahahahahgaga

Lol


----------



## CoiL (Jun 16, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Stop listening to music altogether for a week...
> And get some earplugs when you sleep. Brain will reboot and addiction is kept in check.... And its easy for you as you don't listen to technicalities.


+1
This thing does amazing "restart" to Your ears! I keep doing 4-5 days brakes 1-2 times in month - it re-adjusts Your brain/hearing and  not to mention You differentiate IEMs more accurately, You also enjoy music more too!


hydroid said:


> Just received my es4 and immediately paired it with trn cable and wide bore medium size tips of my tennmak piano. Initial impression is it has more bass quantity and tamed highs compared with my first loved kz iem zst. Just like my IT01, i prefer the wide bore tips on the es4. It somehow lessen the bass a bit but still with enough punch on the lower end and reveal some clarity compared with the narrow bore tips I've tried. Will try to burn this in for awhile on my blackberry Q10 and see if there's any significant change.


Can You please compare IT01 vs. ES4 in more detail and make some side-by-side pics of shape&size? Please? Preferably both with wide-bore tips. Are those Auvio S size on pic?
My ES4 is still on the way along with burson V5i opamps.

Anyway, ES4 (in teal color) in my eyes is one of the nicest looking plastic IEM KZ has ever made.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

Slater said:


> It’s YouTube, what do you expect?



I expected better... Written reviews are miles better.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> +1
> This thing does amazing "restart" to Your ears! I keep doing 4-5 days brakes 1-2 times in month - it re-adjusts Your brain/hearing and  not to mention You differentiate IEMs more accurately, You also enjoy music more too!
> 
> Can You please compare IT01 vs. ES4 in more detail and make some side-by-side pics of shape&size? Please? Preferably both with wide-bore tips. Are those Auvio S size on pic?
> ...


IT01 is more smooth and dynamic in nature compares to ES4, but suffers from mid bass bleed which is absent in KZ.

IBasso is way more coherent and enjoyable as bass seems to stitched together with mids and treble(sometimes leaks are good). It has natural decay.

KZ ES4 is more like v shape with boosted bass and treble, but KZ tamed both if compared to ZST or ES3. ES4 shows greater speed in SubBass and high treble, which makes it a little disjoint from mids compared to IBasso it01, but still is the greatest pair of KZ made till now. The only bad part of KZ is that they really don't know how to tune a BA, but ES4 shows that they did their homework, if not great, but still good. It is the most coherent multi driver KZ in market.

Why wise bore on both KZ and iBasso, is that both bleeds a little and wide bore makes sound thinner, so they counter react to get pleasant sound.

My suggestion is use JVC spiral dot with KZ to tame the treble without loosing the focus(comply makes you loose treble focus).

And iBasso goes with symbio W, it can't get cleaner sounding than this. No bleed and insane subbass boost.



@CoiL @Slater , mod is calling you, we need mods.....

And yah, I tried takstar pro82( closed ports) with hifiman super porous filter today.

Simply speaking, this is a godly headphone


----------



## hydroid

dhruvmeena96 said:


> IT01 is more smooth and dynamic in nature compares to ES4, but suffers from mid bass bleed which is absent in KZ.
> 
> IBasso is way more coherent and enjoyable as bass seems to stitched together with mids and treble(sometimes leaks are good). It has natural decay.
> 
> ...



Completely agree with the detailed comparison. IT01 sound quality is still way better for me. By the way @CoiL here arw some photos side by side..


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I want to dampen some 3kHz, 5kHz and 8kHz...

Suggest me some eartips.

Ostry 200 vs Ostry 300


----------



## oneula

Need some suggestions on music types based on KZ models so I can figure out who to give them to
The models are:

ATE
ATR
ZST
ZSR
ZS3
ZS10
ZSA
ES4
EDR9
EDR1

I would like to match these KZ models with some DAPs to give to family/firends
So any ideas on IEM matches based on their sound profiles to these DAPs?

Benjie T6
ZiShan Z3
QNGEE X2
Cowan Plenue D
Cowan D2
Apple iPod Shuffle

thanks


----------



## Bartig

oneula said:


> Need some suggestions on music types based on KZ models so I can figure out who to give them to
> The models are:
> 
> ATE
> ...


‘Pretty good for almost all of the genres’ —> ‘apply all’.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Bartig said:


> ‘Pretty good for almost all of the genres’ —> ‘apply all’.


Except the zs10, its nassal.

ATE is enjoyable bass dark earphone(enjoyable bass bleed)
ATR is added treble
ZST is v shape detail maker with good bass
ZSR is cave story soundstage, like all old flagship headphones...huge
ZS3 is ATR with cleaner and boosted bass, but dark treble and extreme isolation
ZS10 is technical monster, tuning failure....fastest KZ but to nasal and weird high range.
ZSA is ZS6 inspired tuning with high range done right and more linear bass, but the midrange is little blurry compared to ZS6, with metallic resonance in subbass.
ES4 is what I defined, second flagship.....top is ED16

No info on EDR9 and EDR1

ED9 was technical inferior with tuning done right. Open and clear sounding, but issues were in QC.

ED9B is new cheap flagship, tuning remains same but decay is faster, sounds cleaner and treble is little more controlled compared to old ED9.


----------



## audionab

which comply tips will fit es4 tx-200 is small 
will t400 fit?


----------



## Delta32

Hey guys, new on the forum, but I've been lurking this thread for months (I guess the last 3-500 pages). 
I currently own a pair of zs6 which I love (after putting in some kitchen sponge to cut the highs). I'm considering a trn bt3 instead of the current kz bluetooth cable i have. There is still some audio delay in the bt3 right? Does it change pitch sometimes as well like the kz bt cable does (sometimes it has minor glitches where the notes are wrong)? 

My only gripe with the zs6 is the isolation when walking in traffic, commuting etc. I had been considering buying the zsr for the isolation. How do the new ES4 and ED16 stack up against the zsr in terms of isolation?


----------



## CoiL (Jun 16, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> *IT01* is more smooth and dynamic in nature compares to ES4, but *suffers from mid bass bleed* which is absent in KZ.
> IBasso is way more coherent and enjoyable as bass seems to stitched together with mids and treble(sometimes leaks are good). It has natural decay.
> 
> KZ ES4 is more like v shape with boosted bass and treble, but KZ tamed both if compared to ZST or ES3. ES4 shows greater speed in SubBass and high treble, which makes it a little disjoint from mids compared to IBasso it01, but still is the greatest pair of KZ made till now. The only bad part of KZ is that they really don't know how to tune a BA, but ES4 shows that they did their homework, if not great, but still good. It is the most coherent multi driver KZ in market.
> ...


Interesting... I got no midbass bleed with stock IT01 nor with modded configuration.
Maybe we have too different source gear, amping etc. ,idk.
Just to be clear, I`m driving my IT01 out of HW&FW modded DX50 (specifics in my profile), 3.1V/80mA per channel @ high gain.
Using Auvio S size tips.

Inmodified configuration I get insane fast and controlled mid-bass/bass/sub-bass and percussion with zero bleed.


dhruvmeena96 said:


> ATE is enjoyable bass dark earphone(enjoyable bass bleed)
> ATR is added treble
> ZST is v shape detail maker with good bass
> ZS3 is ATR with cleaner and boosted bass, but dark treble and extreme isolation


Current ATR & use exactly same driver. No sound difference whatever.
ZST I would call more of W-shape with overly harsh/sibilant highs.
And all the ZS3`s I got are nothing like ATR (which is better). My ZS3s have boosted bloated boomy bass, recessed mids and harsh highs.

Idk if we got different version/batches or whatever but my impressions seem to differ quite a lot from Yours.
But it is KZ... and we know they make changes without notice + QC is bad.

But ED16 gets raving impressions.... seems I just need to get it sometime soon -.-



hydroid said:


> Completely agree with the detailed comparison. IT01 sound quality is still way better for me. By the way @CoiL here arw some photos side by side..


Thanks for photos! 
I like what I see - ES4 is larger than IT01 but not much and shape is also kind of similar. Though, I have small ears, ES4 still might have fit problems for me.
I hope not.


----------



## s8grave

Delta32 said:


> My only gripe with the zs6 is the isolation when walking in traffic, commuting etc. I had been considering buying the zsr for the isolation. How do the new ES4 and ED16 stack up against the zsr in terms of isolation?



ED16 is less bulky and isolates similar to ZSRs, didn't try ES4 but I guess it fits and seals like ZSTs. In my ear ZSR and ED16 have the best isolation, ED16 is smaller and sound more natural IMO. So I recommend ED16, very good IEMs.


----------



## Bartig

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Except the zs10, its nassal.
> 
> ATE is enjoyable bass dark earphone(enjoyable bass bleed)
> ATR is added treble
> ...


Sometimes I’ve got the feeling you just write  some random sentences, but this list makes a lot of sense. 

The ATR has the same driver as the ATE now by the way, so that difference is gone.


----------



## hydroid

CoiL said:


> Thanks for photos!
> I like what I see - ES4 is larger than IT01 but not much and shape is also kind of similar. Though, I have small ears, ES4 still might have fit problems for me.
> I hope not.



No worries man. For me, ES4 is just slightly larger than IT01 not much of a difference in size.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Bartig said:


> Sometimes I’ve got the feeling you just write  some random sentences, but this list makes a lot of sense.
> 
> The ATR has the same driver as the ATE now by the way, so that difference is gone.


Well my ATE was different from ATR(old versions) and I don't know what happened to new versions.

@CoiL 
I find ZST v shape....

And ZS3 of mine, fortunately was cleaner on bass but was too much compared to ATE and treble dark..

Anybody with ZS10, I don't want to trigger you guys, I just didn't like it.

@Bartig I don't write random sentences....I think I try to be accurate from my ear point... Sorry if you find some things of mine random and crappy


----------



## eruditass

Delta32 said:


> My only gripe with the zs6 is the isolation when walking in traffic, commuting etc. I had been considering buying the zsr for the isolation. How do the new ES4 and ED16 stack up against the zsr in terms of isolation?





s8grave said:


> ED16 is less bulky and isolates similar to ZSRs, didn't try ES4 but I guess it fits and seals like ZSTs. In my ear ZSR and ED16 have the best isolation, ED16 is smaller and sound more natural IMO. So I recommend ED16, very good IEMs.



Thanks for the isolation comments! 

How much worse is the ZST/ES4 than the ZSR/ED16?

Have you compared other brands IEMs isolation? Or the KZ EDR2 style?


----------



## sino8r

Delta32 said:


> Hey guys, new on the forum, but I've been lurking this thread for months (I guess the last 3-500 pages).
> I currently own a pair of zs6 which I love (after putting in some kitchen sponge to cut the highs). I'm considering a trn bt3 instead of the current kz bluetooth cable i have. There is still some audio delay in the bt3 right? Does it change pitch sometimes as well like the kz bt cable does (sometimes it has minor glitches where the notes are wrong)?
> 
> My only gripe with the zs6 is the isolation when walking in traffic, commuting etc. I had been considering buying the zsr for the isolation. How do the new ES4 and ED16 stack up against the zsr in terms of isolation?



I can tell you that the TRN BT3 is light-years ahead of the crappy KZ bluetooth headsets. I tried all models of the KZ bluetooth and they have a terrible connection and crap battery life. The BT3 is by far the best Bluetooth experience available for the KZ. I have the aptx version and basic. Not much of a difference between the two. Battery lasts all day. There is very little audio delay. Well worth the purchase.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sino8r said:


> I can tell you that the TRN BT3 is light-years ahead of the crappy KZ bluetooth headsets. I tried all models of the KZ bluetooth and they have a terrible connection and crap battery life. The BT3 is by far the best Bluetooth experience available for the KZ. I have the aptx version and basic. Not much of a difference between the two. Battery lasts all day. There is very little audio delay. Well worth the purchase.



It should be for the price and size. The KZ modules aren't that bad for what they are. Mine is used with the Rose Mojito and I generally get just over 4 hours of use and very rarely run into disconnects (connected to either my LG G5, Shanling M1, or Asus FX53V laptop). More stable than a number of more expensive dedicated Bluetooth devices I've got. For less than 5 bucks, you can't really complain. The delay is annoying though, esp. since it starts out with none and suddenly there's a good second or so of it. Not for videos, that's for sure. Might have to scoop up one of those TRN cables to see how it is. Not a fan of the around-the-neck thing though.


----------



## s8grave

DoomzDayz said:


> Thanks for the isolation comments!
> 
> How much worse is the ZST/ES4 than the ZSR/ED16?
> 
> Have you compared other brands IEMs isolation? Or the KZ EDR2 style?



Bigger shell with less holes in it will isolate U better, if the shape is right and it sits tight in your ear. For example KZs isolates me better than my Shure or Westone universal IEMs. But human ears are different, you know)


----------



## sino8r

B9Scrambler said:


> It should be for the price and size. The KZ modules aren't that bad for what they are. Mine is used with the Rose Mojito and I generally get just over 4 hours of use and very rarely run into disconnects (connected to either my LG G5, Shanling M1, or Asus FX53V laptop). More stable than a number of more expensive dedicated Bluetooth devices I've got. For less than 5 bucks, you can't really complain. The delay is annoying though, esp. since it starts out with none and suddenly there's a good second or so of it. Not for videos, that's for sure. Might have to scoop up one of those TRN cables to see how it is. Not a fan of the around-the-neck thing though.



True for the price it does work but barely in my experience. I didn't like the connection being sketchy, battery, and the awkward module being on one side. I was always readjusting it. I mainly use mine at work so it's mostly tucked into my collar. I can get understand not liking the over the neck thing. My friend always called it a horseshoe lol! I used the LG models for years so I'm used to it. I've tried the truly wireless models in several good brands but they aren't quite "there" yet including Bose. I guess I've been a nut for bluetooth for well over 10 years now. For the 20-30 bucks, you can't beat the BT3. It does sync with video as long as you have a decent wireless connection for data. I could never get the KZ models to sync properly. The battery lasts 8 hrs plus. It's very comfortable. The mic is decent (not great only good) just make sure it's not under your collar. I always have that issue at work but otherwise it's sounds a bit better than speakerphone mode according to most folks I talk to on the phone. It does sound about 90% as good as the silver plated or newer copper cords so that's good. I highly recommend it to any KZ user. Good stuff


----------



## eruditass (Jun 16, 2018)

s8grave said:


> Bigger shell with less holes in it will isolate U better, if the shape is right and it sits tight in your ear. For example KZs isolates me better than my Shure or Westone universal IEMs. But human ears are different, you know)



Yeah I've been trying to figure out which ones have bass vents and on which side.  The ES4 has 2 of them facing the ear, but maybe since there aren't any facing outside it still does well? I also read that the ZS5 isn't great, but that appears to only have 1 vent hole facing the ear, though it is smaller.  What about other KZ IEMs? Is there a good way to find out? Finding good pictures?

And of course everyone's ears are different and these opinions I'm finding are for different people.


----------



## Slater

DoomzDayz said:


> Yeah I've been trying to figure out which ones have bass vents and on which side.  The ES4 has 2 of them facing the ear, but maybe since there aren't any facing outside it still does well? I also read that the ZS5 isn't great, but that appears to only have 1 vent hole facing the ear, though it is smaller.  What about other KZ IEMs? Is there a good way to find out? Finding good pictures?
> 
> And of course everyone's ears are different and these opinions I'm finding are for different people.



ZS5 has driver vents on the side of the shell, and the bass vent on the front of the shell by the nozzle.


----------



## stryed

DoomzDayz said:


> Yeah I've been trying to figure out which ones have bass vents and on which side.  The ES4 has 2 of them facing the ear, but maybe since there aren't any facing outside it still does well? I also read that the ZS5 isn't great, but that appears to only have 1 vent hole facing the ear, though it is smaller.  What about other KZ IEMs? Is there a good way to find out? Finding good pictures?
> 
> And of course everyone's ears are different and these opinions I'm finding are for different people.



KZ5, even the version 2, is pretty awesome - especially considering the 15eu coughed up. The soundstage is amazing and the treble issues fade away (EQed at first, the got used to it. Still some tracks are a nono) and the comfort/fit issue I had a first also dissolved in a few weeks of use. I'm really happy with it and adore being able to walk around in the rain without worry and get back home with my IT01. I also treat it like crap and it's holding up well! Although all is better with the IT01, the exception lies with its soundstage.

I'm considering a KZ6 even if ED16 and ES4 are getting good reviews.


----------



## Slater

Can anyone compare the ED4 and ED16? They both seem to get rave reviews.

Out of all my KZs, the ZS6 and ZSR are my favorites. The bass and midrange of the ZSR, and the clarity and overall balance of the ZS6.

On paper, the ED16 seems to be basically be a ZSR in a different shell. I wouldn’t get it unless it’s ‘better’ in some way.

Thanks!


----------



## neueziel

I'm a huge fan of the CA Vega and was wondering which KZ would come closest to that sound.  thanks


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> Can anyone compare the ED4 and ED16? They both seem to get rave reviews.
> 
> Out of all my KZs, the ZS6 and ZSR are my favorites. The bass and midrange of the ZSR, and the clarity and overall balance of the ZS6.
> 
> ...


I would describe the ES4 as smooth and warm. Elevated but controlled bass with great extension. Full, forward mids that have great detail but are not thin and crispy. Relaxed treble with no nasty peaks. Very wholesome and natural sound overall. Good but not great soundstage. Very relaxing. Good detail but not the kind that smacks you in the face like the ZS6. Subtle detail. 

Ed16 has nice bass with good extension. Probably less bleed into the mids than ES4. Mids are nice and detailed but not as full as the ES4. Treble is elevated and there is a lot of air. Huge Soundstage. My only complaint is that the treble is a touch too strong but that may just be me. I eq'd the treble down about 3db and it sounds amazing.  

Love them both. Hate the cheapo cable on the Ed16 tho.... 
 These 2 are both very comfortable. They compliment each other well.


----------



## MDH12AX7

I put in my ZSR's for a bit for comparison to the Ed16. The Ed16 bass is less boomy and more controlled. ZSR has more upper bass and thicker mids. Ed16 has better detail. ZSR has smoother treble but less air up top. Also, to me it seems like the ZSR has a little reverb like the treble is colored by the shell if that makes sense. Not sure if that's accurate but that best describes how I hear it. ZSR is definately thick in the mids a bit like the ES4. Ed16 is more airy and detailed to my ears. ZSR is more relaxed but boomy in upper bass and mids. Hope that helps you Slater.


----------



## mbwilson111

@MDH12AX7  I hear the ED16 the way you describe.  It has been awhile since I last used my ZSR but I remember liking it.  I love how flat in my ear the ED16 lies.


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> @MDH12AX7  I hear the ED16 the way you describe.  It has been awhile since I last used my ZSR but I remember liking it.  I love how flat in my ear the ED16 lies.


Thank you! I agree, the Ed16 is very low profile and comfy. KZ has sure made some nice new models that's for sure.


----------



## Tweeters

How does the ED16 compare to the ZS6? The descriptions I'm reading  suggest that they might sound pretty similar


----------



## dhruvmeena96

No they dont...

ED16 still have 4kHz dip but the Q factor is very small, it's a thin dip. It resembles ZSR in sound, just more natural.

ZS6 is normal tuning with exaggerated high treble


Tweeters said:


> How does the ED16 compare to the ZS6? The descriptions I'm reading  suggest that they might sound pretty similar


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 17, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> I put in my ZSR's for a bit for comparison to the Ed16. The Ed16 bass is less boomy and more controlled.



"Less boomy and more controlled" is a welcome change.

______________________________



MDH12AX7 said:


> Also, to me it seems like the ZSR has a little reverb like the treble is colored by the shell if that makes sense. Not sure if that's accurate but that best describes how I hear it.



Your thoughts echo my own.......


> Excerpt from my review:
> 
> ..... the ZSR is not as adept at layering and has slightly less defined imaging (compared to the ZS6), but I'd bet that this has more to do with sonic reflection due to the amount of space under the ZSR's dome-like faceplate. All those acoustics dancing about inside the ZSR's spacious housing would have a slight effect on diffusion and focus.



.......or "lack of focus".

______________________________



MDH12AX7 said:


> Ed16 is more airy and detailed to my ears.



To my ears, more air is always an upgrade (so long as things remain cohesive).

_____________________________




MDH12AX7 said:


> ZSR has more upper bass and thicker mids.



The "thicker mids" are the ZSR's "ace in the hole" as far as I am concerned. Upper-bass, not so much.

______________________________



MDH12AX7 said:


> Ed16 has better detail.



Another welcome change for my micro-detail addiction. 

________________________________________________




MDH12AX7 said:


> ZSR has smoother treble but less air up top.



For me, the alleged improvement in "air" and micro-detail are enough to set the ZSR and ED16 apart 

.......and justify my excuse to add the ED16 to my collection. 

Just look at it! It needs a good home.




 

.....how could I not adopt one?

I promise to train and feed it regularly!

I'll even get it a fancy leash!


----------



## MDH12AX7

DocHoliday said:


> "Less boomy and more controlled" is a welcome change.
> 
> ______________________________
> 
> ...


I know you will love them! KZ did a great job on the tuning. Nice to hear that my impressions are validated.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Oye guys....

There is some info or rumour flowing in China about KZ ED16.

According to Chinese people, they think ED16 is trash and weird. KZ stopped the production once for a week but then continued it as people all over globe were praising it.

I was thinking, why do Chinese people consider ED16 as trash, it is way better than ZSR.

And Chinese people accepted ZSR like a gem.


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> Do you like neutral sound signature? It’s not for everyone. Some find it boring, and the biggest complaint of the T2 is the lack of sub bass. Trying to fix it by taping the vent hole is a ghetto fix, and doesn’t really address the issue without causing new ones.
> 
> You could always wait and see what the reviews are like on the T2 Bass Pro and also the T3, as they are supposed to be coming out soon (exactly when I don’t know).
> 
> It would suck to get the T2 now, only to kick yourself later, right?



If you count Tin Audio's little brother, the T515, as neutral then hell yeah I'd love a neutral sound signature. My favourite IEM up to date is still the T515 and I was hoping the T2 to be a direct upgrade from it with a more brighter treble, but yet still retaining the same kind of sound signature as the T515.

I'm actually okay with the lack of bass, I'm not that big of a basshead like I was before. Plus I recently also bought the I-INTO i8 which is a super bass heavy IEM from the looks of it.


----------



## GrassFed

DocHoliday said:


> .....how could I not adopt one?
> 
> I promise to train and feed it regularly!
> 
> I'll even get it a fancy leash!


Don't forget to get it ear broken


----------



## hydroid

After 48hours of continuous playing burn in tracks from the moment I received the ES4, I'm glad to report back that well done KZ on this one. Not that great to out perform my daily driver IT01, but I must say it's a step up from my previous KZ's owned (zst, zs3 and zsr).

I'm not too technical to give detailed impressions but from what I heard so far. ES4 somehow presents some deep rumble subbass (not overly done) missing from the zst and just right amount of details missing from the zs3.

Played the ES4 on my ipod classic 5.5 gen paired with Ibasso PB3 amp and with Zishan Z1(burson V5iD opamp). I never used EQ during my listening sessions.

I'm just glad to know that KZ has done a great job on this ES4.


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> Can anyone compare the ED4 and ED16? They both seem to get rave reviews.
> 
> Out of all my KZs, the ZS6 and ZSR are my favorites. The bass and midrange of the ZSR, and the clarity and overall balance of the ZS6.
> 
> ...


Oh my! You know what? After the ZSR, ZS10, EDR1, ED9, ES4 and ZSA this year?

I’ve just bought those too! 

(Man, this needs to stop)


----------



## CoiL

hydroid said:


> After 48hours of continuous playing burn in tracks from the moment I received the ES4, I'm glad to report back that well done KZ on this one. Not that great to out perform my daily driver IT01, but I must say it's a step up from my previous KZ's owned (zst, zs3 and zsr).
> 
> I'm not too technical to give detailed impressions but from what I heard so far. ES4 somehow presents some deep rumble subbass (not overly done) missing from the zst and just right amount of details missing from the zs3.
> 
> ...



Thanks for impressions! Glad I went with ES4. I hope it arrives soon. Don`t want to jump at ED16 without real need if ES4 proves to be worthy sidegrade to IT01.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Oye guys....
> 
> There is some info or rumour flowing in China about KZ ED16.
> 
> ...



Different tastes. Chinese market likes a specific signature which lots of brands try to cater to. Again, I'm glad KZ dials in so much variety with their signatures which gives people options. 

I'm also in the ZSR is a gem camp. Not really interested in the ZS7/ED16 based on the comments, and I'm certainly not a fan of the look.


----------



## CoiL

Btw, guys, can someone measure ED16 impedance? Is it really low as 8 Ohm they claim?


----------



## hydroid (Jun 17, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Thanks for impressions! Glad I went with ES4. I hope it arrives soon. Don`t want to jump at ED16 without real need if ES4 proves to be worthy sidegrade to IT01.



I can sense your future mod plans with the ES4..


----------



## Cya|\| (Jun 18, 2018)

So is KZ ed16 better than es4?


----------



## CoiL

Cya|\| said:


> So is KZ ed16 *better than* es4?


Answer to that question does not exist!


----------



## CoiL

hydroid said:


> I can sense your future mod plans with the ES4..


Yeah, I will probably tune them to my liking (if possible).


----------



## audionab

CoiL said:


> Yeah, I will probably tune them to my liking (if possible).


how can that be done?


----------



## Dickymint

What has happened to all the ZSA reviews and opinions, it's all gone very quiet? Been grass cutting today with ZSA and big foams, listening to Riversea, the Tide, some wonderful sounds going on there, not as good as the ZS10 but getting closer the more I use it! Maybe I should have used the lawnmower instead....


----------



## hydroid (Jun 17, 2018)

audionab said:


> how can that be done?



You've got to check out @CoiL gallery to see what he's been up to and all his masterpieces. As well as @Slater contibution to the community to have an idea.


----------



## mosz

What's going to be better for running/gym ?
I got the ZSR but they are pretty heavy and bulky for that.

Should I go for
ZSA (smaller but still heavy)
ATR (cable is bad but maybe with ear hooks?)
other KZ?

Thanks,


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 17, 2018)

alex5908 said:


> Have you done any mods to ZS6? Which tips are you using?



No mods.  Stock medium Starline tips on the ZS6.  I had to use large on the ZS10 to get the proper seal for enough bass.

Oops...that is an old post that I had already answered...not sure how that happened.


----------



## KainHighwind

mosz said:


> What's going to be better for running/gym ?
> I got the ZSR but they are pretty heavy and bulky for that.
> 
> Should I go for
> ...


Not KZ, I would recommend E-MI CI880, it's lightweight, small and comfort, sounds very great.


----------



## mosz

KainHighwind said:


> Not KZ, I would recommend E-MI CI880, it's lightweight, small and comfort, sounds very great.



They look nice but I'm looking for over the ear and without mic


----------



## HungryPanda

I would recommend the Brainwavz B100. Very small and light, over ear and sound great. I use them when sleeping


----------



## KainHighwind

HungryPanda said:


> I would recommend the Brainwavz B100. Very small and light, over ear and sound great. I use them when sleeping



I have never used IEMs while sleeping, no matter how small they are, they still give discomfort if I lay on one side, earbud is less discomfort, but I rarely use earphone while sleeping btw, unless I'm falling asleep while using earphone


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 17, 2018)

Dickymint said:


> What has happened to all the ZSA reviews and opinions, it's all gone very quiet?




Typically, when KZ releases multiple models simultaneously several models tend to attract the spotlight while other very good models seem to reside somewhere in the nearby vicinity but not necessarily in the spotlight. 

This happened with the ED3 "Perfection" when the ED3 "ACME" was released.

This happened with the ED8 when the ZS1(v1) was released.

This happened with the EDR1 when the DT5 was released.

This happened with the DT3 when the ED10 was released.

.......and to some degree this happened with the ATR which was released in close proximity to the ZS3.

The ZS3's detachable cables and custom-like fit overshadowed the ATR's sublime performance and value. It wasn't long before the fog dissipated and the ATR's virtues became more evident. 

The same goes for the HDS3 and I would even argue for the ES3, though with the ES3 the fog settled in due to the frenzied speculation about the ZSR and ZS10. In other words "why pick up a variation on the ZST sound signature (ES3) when a  4+1 ZS10 and an ibasso-like, semi-custom fit 2+1 ZSR are about to take centerstage?"

The ZSA, ED15, ES4, ED16 and ZS10 will all find their place on KZ's continuum 

......even though five more models are waiting in the wings.




 



Spoiler





 


 


 


 











Bring it!


----------



## NeonHD

NeonHD said:


> I literally want to buy the Tin audio T2 right now but this stupid voice inside my head says no



Oh crap I meant to post this in the Chi-fi thread, didn't realize this was the KZ thread, lmao I done goofed


----------



## HungryPanda

I get mixed up as well so no worries


----------



## SuperLuigi

So I'm not sure if I'm just bad at searching, but are there any shorter cables for KZ? I'm looking for something like half the size of stock.


----------



## Slater

SuperLuigi said:


> So I'm not sure if I'm just bad at searching, but are there any shorter cables for KZ? I'm looking for something like half the size of stock.



I’ve never seen anything like that, but 3.5mm plugs are $1 or less, and the cables are easy to shorten yourself.


----------



## JonnyM

https://audiobudget.com/product/KZ/ED16

Audiobudget just posted his ED16 review.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 18, 2018)

JonnyM said:


> https://audiobudget.com/product/KZ/ED16
> 
> Audiobudget just posted his ED16 review.


Its actually old...


And well this is a KZ thread....I want to ask something outside of KZ.

I got iPhone brainwavz jive which I refunded

Now

My Amazon Pay have 999rs ~ 15$

And I have some options here. They all cost 999rs

Brainwavz Jive
Brainwavz Alpha
Brainwavz xfit 200

Or should I go for

1mormore piston fit
Sennhiesser cx180
JBL(iem are crappy, but still asking)
House of Marley
Muve acoustic Drive(good reviews)

Or some technical Indian IEM

Evidson z4
Evidson B3


Why I did not mention KZ

Because amazon India sells KZ at a crazy price

ZS3 for 100$


By the way, evidson are pretty darn good

Z4 is titanium coated diaphragm n52 magnet iem with kevlar fabric cable and titanium housing.


@Slater @B9Scrambler


And one more news

Granvela ATE is upgraded KZ ate.

Titanium diaphragm(not coated) and better channel matching but double the price


----------



## 1clearhead

Bottom line...

So, what sounds closer to the ED16?

ES4 or ZSR?

I'm looking forward to buying another KZ toy.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

1clearhead said:


> Bottom line...
> 
> So, what sounds closer to the ED16?
> 
> ...


ZSR
Artiste


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its actually old...
> 
> 
> And well this is a KZ thread....I want to ask something outside of KZ.
> ...


if you look right then you can find kz ate under 999
or just go for muve


----------



## fredhubbard2

NeonHD said:


> Oh **** I meant to post this in the Chi-fi thread, didn't realize this was the KZ thread, lmao I done goofed



maybe I need to give them another go but I found the TinAudio T2 ... anodyne ... that's the only word I can think of, there's a certain sparkle about the KZ IEM's I own that is defo missing in the T2's


----------



## B9Scrambler

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its actually old...
> 
> 
> And well this is a KZ thread....I want to ask something outside of KZ.
> ...



Never heard of Evidson but I've tried all the others you mentioned. I like the original House of Marley Uplift which competes pretty well with the Meze 12 Classics (with some annoying driver flex added in) but the other models I've tried (of which only the Smile Jamaica is still sold) have all been more style than substance. I'd just get another Jive.


----------



## lior777

for Thai Folk music with classical elements in the composition + vocal male ..
kz ed16 or es4?


----------



## mbwilson111

lior777 said:


> for Thai Folk music with classical elements in the composition + vocal male ..
> kz ed16 or es4?



ED16


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its actually old...
> 
> 
> And well this is a KZ thread....I want to ask something outside of KZ.
> ...


Granvela ATE? What is that? Somekind of false third party advertising to get more price and sales off from ATE? Weird...


----------



## jeromeaparis

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its actually old...
> 
> And one more news
> 
> ...



Please share youre source of information

One more false news ! "Granvela" is only a seller who sells standard ATE 2x the normal value and I do not see any mention of Titanium.
Please do not spread false rumors. + ATE today is not so great, I do have the ATE and the ATR and since the ZST I believe we have today much better KZ earphones.
It seems that the income of the ES4 is much more interesting.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

jeromeaparis said:


> Please share youre source of information
> 
> One more false news ! "Granvela" is only a seller who sells standard ATE 2x the normal value and I do not see any mention of Titanium.
> Please do not spread false rumors. + ATE today is not so great, I do have the ATE and the ATR and since the ZST I believe we have today much better KZ earphones.
> It seems that the income of the ES4 is much more interesting.


https://headphonescompared.com/best-noise-isolating-earbuds/

7th number crap..

I asked the reviewer about that...he mailed me the info...

I wanted to ask thread about the reliablity but I think I gave you all guys a wrong feeling, my bad....


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> Granvela ATE? What is that? Somekind of false third party advertising to get more price and sales off from ATE? Weird...


Yup

But nonetheless, plastic looks more impressive here


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ZSR
> Artiste



I did not realize that you have the Artiste DC1.  Have you given it much burn-in?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> I did not realize that you have the Artiste DC1.  Have you given it much burn-in?


I don't have artiste, I just happened to listen them...


----------



## B9Scrambler

dhruvmeena96 said:


> https://headphonescompared.com/best-noise-isolating-earbuds/
> 
> 7th number ****..
> 
> ...



Those are just regular ATEs that Granvela sells as their own product. They do that with tons of stuff on Amazon. I also doubt if that reviewer has actually listened to or used any of those products. Most of the descriptors read like bullet-pointed feature lists expanded into paragraphs, there is nothing but stock images for each product, and the videos are all to different channels.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

B9Scrambler said:


> Those are just regular ATEs that Granvela sells as their own product. They do that with tons of stuff on Amazon. I also doubt if that reviewer has actually listened to or used any of those products. Most of the descriptors read like bullet-pointed feature lists expanded into paragraphs, there is nothing but stock images for each product, and the videos are all to different channels.


That 7Hz to 46kHz range


----------



## Qualcheduno

dhruvmeena96 said:


> https://headphonescompared.com/best-noise-isolating-earbuds/
> 
> 7th number ****..
> 
> ...


Honestly, I don't think that a mail from a half known reviewer is a reliable source


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 18, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Except the zs10, its nassal.
> 
> ATE is enjoyable bass dark earphone(enjoyable bass bleed)
> ATR is added treble
> ...





dhruvmeena96 said:


> I don't have artiste, I just happened to listen them...



I am confused.  When you state what the characteristics are for all of these many iems,  do you actually own them or have you only briefly listened to them somewhere?  You state things as though your comments are absolute FACT but why should we take your word for it?  Is it all based on graphs you have seen?  Other people may hear things differently.  I often find that a tip change will make a huge difference as will the amount of power that you provide to the iem.  If something is YOUR personal opinion I wish you would say so and acknowledge that other's mileage may vary. 

For example, I personally do not find the ZS10 nasal.  I still think there might be wrong with yours.


----------



## B9Scrambler

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That 7Hz to 46kHz range



Look at the customer images. It's just a normal ATE they stick in a Granvela box. Silver housings are gussied up for the images you see. Just look at the images of it here on this AliExpress page. Same as the regular old silver ATE. And from what I'm seeing online, KZ doesn't make the original silver ATE anymore. Granvela probably bought them up before they went out of production and are selling them back under their brand with some extra marketing pizazz, like an exaggerated frequency response range. It's not like anyone would measure them to verify.


----------



## Qualcheduno

B9Scrambler said:


> Look at the customer images. It's just a normal ATE they stick in a Granvela box. Silver housings are gussied up for the images you see. Just look at the images of it here on this AliExpress page. Same as the regular old silver ATE. And from what I'm seeing online, KZ doesn't make the original silver ATE anymore. Granvela probably bought them up before they went out of production and are selling them back under their brand with some extra marketing pizazz, like an exaggerated frequency response range. It's not like anyone would measure them to verify.


Probably at Granvela, not satisfied with doubling the price, they also felt the need to double the stated FR extension.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 18, 2018)

I own ES4 from KZ and ED16, and finding someone to buy ED16..



mbwilson111 said:


> I am confused.  When you state what the characteristics are for all of these many iems,  do you actually own them or have you only briefly listened to them somewhere?  You state things as though your comments are absolute FACT but why should we take your word for it?  Is it all based on graphs you have seen?  Other people may hear things differently.  I often find that a tip change will make a huge difference as will the amount of power that you provide to the iem.  If something is YOUR personal opinion I wish you would say so and acknowledge that other's mileage may vary.
> 
> For example, I personally do not find the ZS10 nasal.  I still think there might be wrong with yours.



Nahh, ZS10 sound nasal on the track which can get nasal, and the level of nasal is extreme.

Otherwise it behaves normally.

Scarborough fair by Tamaru Yamada at 1:07 or nearby gets mid bloaty and noisy even for classical tracks.

That's what I hate about ZS10, otherwise they are very technically capable. After neutraliser they get amazing but sometimes incoherent. Rap god by Eminem tells that


----------



## dabachata

Bartig said:


> Took my new bike for a ride. It’s as good as a daily commute as the KZ ZSR I listened during the trip. I don’t think I have any other earphone that has so little wind noise during walking, running or biking.
> 
> <3 ZSR.


Swapfiets  Just can't tell which street in Groningen that is exactly


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 18, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I own ES4 from KZ and ED16, and finding someone to buy ED16..



I don't see how you can remember the sound of each and every one.

Which IEMs are keepers for you?  The ones you choose when you want to relax for an evening and just enjoy listening to several albums in a row...either old favorites or exciting new discoveries?  In the end, these are tools to be used for the enjoyment of music. 

As for the ZS10, you again stated that it is nasal.  For me it absolutely is not.  If it were, I would find it unlistenable. Instead I enjoyed my music for several hours the other night with my ZS10.  Primarily male vocalists..rock, blues, folk, Americana ...among other things.


----------



## maxxevv

mbwilson111 said:


> As for the ZS10, you again stated that it is nasal.  For me it absolutely is not.  If it were, I would find it unlistenable. Instead I enjoyed my music for several hours the other night with my ZS10.  Primarily male vocalists..rock, blues, folk, Americana ...among other things.



Which is why I think he has had a defective set. (Which he claims to have swapped twice ?!!)  

I don't find it nasal in anyway, in fact, I like the sound signature better than the ZS5v2, ZS6, TinAudio T2. 
And very importantly, its one I can enjoy for multi hour sessions while at my desk doing work. 
If it was nasal, I'm very sure seasoned reviewers like @B9Scrambler would have noted that down too and I would have junked it.


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> Those are just regular ATEs that Granvela sells as their own product. They do that with tons of stuff on Amazon. I also doubt if that reviewer has actually listened to or used any of those products. Most of the descriptors read like bullet-pointed feature lists expanded into paragraphs, there is nothing but stock images for each product, and the videos are all to different channels.


Agree. 


B9Scrambler said:


> Look at the customer images. It's just a normal ATE they stick in a Granvela box. Silver housings are gussied up for the images you see. Just look at the images of it here on this AliExpress page. Same as the regular old silver ATE. And from what I'm seeing online, KZ doesn't make the original silver ATE anymore. Granvela probably bought them up before they went out of production and are selling them back under their brand with some extra marketing pizazz, like an exaggerated frequency response range. It's not like anyone would measure them to verify.


Agree also. I think he just got latest ATE and compared it to older version, which is better than older ones and uses same driver as latest ATR. 
Remember - I have opened all those ATR/ATE drivers for modding 


B9Scrambler said:


> That's not a practice to be proud of.


That`s really not nice! I`ve been in India for longer time and I feel sorry about poor ppl and conditions there ;( But I like India nature and southern ppl.

Btw guys&girls, I have found my personal TOTL IEM (after lot of tip-rolling) and will be certainly out after getting ES4 (only coming here further for gift and such recommendations).
Will post longer into IT01 thread soon with some newer pics. But I will try to get most out of ES4 with mods when I get them and publish all the info needed to do it here


----------



## B9Scrambler

maxxevv said:


> Which is why I think he has had a defective set. (Which he claims to have swapped twice ?!!)
> 
> I don't find it nasal in anyway, in fact, I like the sound signature better than the ZS5v2, ZS6, TinAudio T2.
> And very importantly, its one I can enjoy for multi hour sessions while at my desk doing work.
> If it was nasal, I'm very sure seasoned reviewers like @B9Scrambler would have noted that down too and I would have junked it.



I am a scrublord with no real knowledge. Just ignore me, lol.


----------



## lior777

mbwilson111 said:


> ED16



thanks, order it!


----------



## Dickymint

dabachata said:


> Swapfiets  Just can't tell which street in Groningen that is exactly


I miss Groningen, the Pannenkoeken Schip, the canals, Delfzijl, Termunterzijl, long time ago now.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> Btw guys&girls, I have found my personal TOTL IEM (after lot of tip-rolling) and will be certainly out after getting ES4 (only coming here further for gift and such recommendations).
> Will post longer into IT01 thread soon with some newer pics. But I will try to get most out of ES4 with mods when I get them and publish all the info needed to do it here


You're saying with your mods the ES4 sounds TOTL? I look forward to hearing about them.


----------



## NeonHD

fredhubbard2 said:


> maybe I need to give them another go but I found the TinAudio T2 ... anodyne ... that's the only word I can think of, there's a certain sparkle about the KZ IEM's I own that is defo missing in the T2's



I love me some sparkle at the upper end as long as it's not the "kill-your-eardrums" kind of sparkle. The ZS6 gave me that unfortunately


----------



## CoiL (Jun 18, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You're saying with your mods the ES4 sounds TOTL? I look forward to hearing about them.


No no no. You understood me totally wrong!
I said I found my *personal *TOTL IEM in modified IT01.
Additionally I said I will try to modify ES4 to their best (for my ears and with my gear) and let You all here know how to achieve it. If ES4 is even worthy a modification, I don`t know yet as my ES4 is still on its way here.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 18, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I personally do not find the ZS10 nasal.  I still think there might be wrong with yours.


They have a 10-15dB peak ranging from 2-4kHz, this is a fact. That's rather huge so if the frequencies are present, and certainly if in any way emphasized, it should be noticeable. These frequencies can cause vocals to sound nasal.

These are also very common frequencies for people to have noise induced hearing loss. I'll just note that 15 dB translates to what the brain perceives as being ~3x louder. If people are not finding these painful on dynamic peaks, when listening at moderate to high volumes, it's hard for me to imagine that they don't already have hearing loss at these frequencies. Without EQ, I have to turn the volume way down for them to not be painful on dynamic peaks. I have personally seen others I know react the same way, using 2 different ZS10s.

*Edited to fix some incorrect numbers above. It's a 10-15dB peak, not 15-20dB.


----------



## Bartig

dabachata said:


> Swapfiets  Just can't tell which street in Groningen that is exactly


Yes, a Swapfiets. It’s in Haren haha. 



Dickymint said:


> I miss Groningen, the Pannenkoeken Schip, the canals, Delfzijl, Termunterzijl, long time ago now.


Whoah, so much love for Groningen. ❤️

On a more on-topic note: had to spend money in my DHgate account after an incident. Threw it on the ED9. So another KZ coming my way.


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed some posts from the thread. Please keep the discussion within the Posting Guidelines. Thanks everyone.


----------



## CYoung234 (Jun 18, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> Which is why I think he has had a defective set. (Which he claims to have swapped twice ?!!)
> 
> I don't find it nasal in anyway, in fact, I like the sound signature better than the ZS5v2, ZS6, TinAudio T2.
> And very importantly, its one I can enjoy for multi hour sessions while at my desk doing work.
> If it was nasal, I'm very sure seasoned reviewers like @B9Scrambler would have noted that down too and I would have junked it.



 +1 to that. I have all of these iems, and the ZS10 is my daily driver. Not nasal at all. I will try to find Scarborough Fair and have a listen...

Even after using Neutralizer, I still prefer the ZS10 over them all. I have profiles created in Neutralizer for each one, and have redone them several times to be sure of what I am hearing. For me, the T2's are very capable, but not very immersive. The ZS6 is a close second to the ZS10. The ZS5's I have, both v1's are good, but not in the same league with the ZS6 or ZS10...

Edit: A final note - you people have gotten to me again. Just ordered the ED16....


----------



## CYoung234

ChaoticKinesis said:


> They have a 15-20 dB peak ranging from 2-4 kHz, this is a fact. That's rather huge so if the frequencies are present, and certainly if in any way emphasized, it should be noticeable. These frequencies can cause vocals to sound nasal.
> 
> These are also very common frequencies for people to have noise induced hearing loss. I'll just note that 20 dB translates to what the brain perceives as being ~4x louder. If people are not finding these painful on dynamic peaks, when listening at moderate to high volumes, it's hard for me to imagine that they don't already have hearing loss at these frequencies. Without EQ, I have to turn the volume way down for them to not be painful on dynamic peaks. I have personally seen others I know react the same way, using 2 different ZS10s.



What??? 15-20dB would be a HUGE peak. An increase of 3dB is TWICE as loud. When I use Neutralizer on mine, I see no such thing. 20dB is about 6.5x as loud... I would be very cautious about any FR curve that showed that type of rise.

Of course, then again, maybe I have some serious hearing loss from working with power tools and playing in a symphony orchestra for too many years! Oh, also, I do not try to listen at painful volumes...


----------



## deco cat

Any suggestion for tips for ZS6 with earwax guard?


----------



## Zerohour88

deco cat said:


> Any suggestion for tips for ZS6 with earwax guard?



Only tip I know that comes with filter is the Comply SX series.


----------



## TheVortex

As there is not much talk of the KZ ED15, would anyone who owns them still recommend them? I do like "normal" earphones every so often and not having to mess around with the cable behind my ear.

I also own the Urbanfun Hybrids and are the ED15's similar?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 18, 2018)

CYoung234 said:


> What??? 15-20dB would be a HUGE peak. An increase of 3dB is TWICE as loud. When I use Neutralizer on mine, I see no such thing. 20dB is about 6.5x as loud... I would be very cautious about any FR curve that showed that type of rise.
> 
> Of course, then again, maybe I have some serious hearing loss from working with power tools and playing in a symphony orchestra for too many years! Oh, also, I do not try to listen at painful volumes...


3dB is 2x power, but 10dB is 2x perceived loudness. They are not the same. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

Also, 20dB is actually a 100x increase in power because it's multiplicative.

Looking at the graphs again, I guess it's not really fair to say 20dB. Compared to 1kHz, 2.4kHz is roughly +12-15dB (depending on graph) and 4kHz is +10dB. This is according to every result possible when you Google "KZ ZS10 frequency response."

These peaks are also a good 8-10dB above the highest point in the midbass, depending on whose measurements you look at. This is equal to at least a 5-8dB increase in that range over any other KZ that does not attempt to attenuate that peak.


----------



## deco cat (Jun 18, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> Only tip I know that comes with filter is the Comply SX series.



Are the 500 the more appropriate for ZS6? How about sound quality with waxguard?


----------



## Dickymint

ChaoticKinesis said:


> 3dB is 2x power, but 10dB is 2x perceived loudness. They are not the same. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm
> 
> Also, 20dB is actually a 100x increase in power because it's multiplicative.
> 
> ...




i suffer from hearing loss and I know that my ZS10 exhibits none of the nasal sounds you are expressing. In fact I would say at the present time this is my favourite IEM and I have a few and have gotten rid of a lot more. The detail and clarity of the ZS10 is superb with a good soundstage and brilliant sub bass as well. I suppose there is a possibility that you have had two duff units, or are you running them with inferior equipment, no offense meant by-the-way? If you find the ZS10 nasal, what is your opinion of the ZS6?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 18, 2018)

Dickymint said:


> i suffer from hearing loss and I know that my ZS10 exhibits none of the nasal sounds you are expressing. In fact I would say at the present time this is my favourite IEM and I have a few and have gotten rid of a lot more. The detail and clarity of the ZS10 is superb with a good soundstage and brilliant sub bass as well. I suppose there is a possibility that you have had two duff units, or are you running them with inferior equipment, no offense meant by-the-way? If you find the ZS10 nasal, what is your opinion of the ZS6?


I haven't heard the ZS6 so I can't compare. I have, however, owned in excess of 30 different IEMs over the years, including >10 recent Chi-Fis, and >10 different pairs of over ear headphones. From KZ I have ES4, ZSR, ZS10, and ED9. The ZS10 has the highest measured peaks in the high-mids that I can recall seeing on a headphone frequency response graph. It is also the _only _headphone I've ever tried of any quality level that I found impossible to listen to at moderate volumes. Note that I'm also including a wide variety of garbage headphones that I've never owned and sound bad but tolerable.

Cutting 2-4kHz by 5dB makes them tolerable, cutting it by 8dB makes them sound like normal earphones with recessed mids. This is true of both models of ZS10 that I've tried.


----------



## HungryPanda

TheVortex said:


> As there is not much talk of the KZ ED15, would anyone who owns them still recommend them? I do like "normal" earphones every so often and not having to mess around with the cable behind my ear.
> 
> I also own the Urbanfun Hybrids and are the ED15's similar?


 I have both Urbanfun and ED15. I find the bass is a bit more emphasized on the ED15. The sound stage is wider on the Urbanfun. Overall I prefer the ED15


----------



## TheVortex

HungryPanda said:


> I have both Urbanfun and ED15. I find the bass is a bit more emphasized on the ED15. The sound stage is wider on the Urbanfun. Overall I prefer the ED15



Thanks for the reply. That's the kind of answer I was looking for. Can you recommend a seller as I noticed that gearbest don't sell it and the seller I use on Alixepress no longer stocks it?


----------



## HungryPanda

On aliexpress app just search KZ ED15 most stores only have silver with mic at the moment but there are a few that still have black no mic


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yea zs10 is unlistenable to me without eq. That mount everest peak in the upper mids is brutal. Have over 200 hours on them and just had to put em away. There are other superior iems in the same price bracket, that I have moved on from them. 
I can see if listening music very quietly or on low volume not hearing that peak. I listen at loud volumes though. Typically at 40/100 from cayin n5 on high gain, 85-90 on sony nwa45 and 10/10 on axon 7 m phone. 

Oh well. Differant ears and differant gears. We hear what we hear and enjoy what we like. No right or wrong.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 18, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I can see if listening music very quietly or on low volume not hearing that peak. I listen at loud volumes though. Typically at 40/100 from cayin n5 on high gain, 85-90 on sony nwa45 and 10/10 on axon 7 m phone.



I have no desire to listen at high volume.  Typically around 40/100 on the Cayin N3 low gain with iems.  Medium gain with headphones.

Actually that IS loud to me...sometimes I turn it down to 30 something.


----------



## Mr. Browstone (Jun 18, 2018)

Slater said:


> OK, as promised, here is the 2 things you can try.
> 
> *I would not do both. I would honestly try #1 first. 99 out of 100 times, it is all you need to get the job done.*
> 
> ...




Thank you very much for all the help! They're definitely tighter now and I'm really happy with them again .

On a side note, I just ordered this to replace my stock cable and bypass the noisy headphone jack in my Xiaomi A1. Has anyone read anything about it? Sorry for uploading the screenshot but I can remember if AliExpress links are allowed.


----------



## Zerohour88

deco cat said:


> Are the 500 the more appropriate for ZS6? How about sound quality with waxguard?



To be honest, I actually don't remember the model number, but 500 seems wide enough. Sound is a bit dampened, but if you have problem with sweat/wax entering your IEM, the tip definitely is a solution.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no desire to listen at high volume.  Typically around 40/100 on the Cayin N3 low gain with iems.  Medium gain with headphones.
> 
> Actually that IS loud to me...sometimes I turn it down to 30 something.


Yup my wife is the same way. Infact i think most people listen at lower volumes. I have just always been a punk though. Lol


----------



## Slater (Jun 18, 2018)

Mr. Browstone said:


> Thank you very much for all the help! They're definitely tighter now and I'm really happy with them again .
> 
> On a side note, I just ordered this to replace my stock cable and bypass the noisy headphone jack in my Xiaomi A1. Has anyone read anything about it? Sorry for uploading the screenshot but I can remember if AliExpress links are allowed.



So glad you got your issue worked out!

I always prefer the easy solutions whenever possible

And yes, Aliexpress links are definitely allowed (and greatly appreciated by HeadFiers) as long as 1) they are not for a banned seller and 2) you remove all of the ‘referral junk’ after the .html


----------



## pbui44

About 120 hours of full-album burn-in and full-playlist listening, I realize what the over-ear sound equivalent is to the KZ ZS6: Beyerdynamic DT880 (2012)!  The semi-open and bright sound with the slight details of a closed-back is what both have sound-wise.  However, what differs from both is the fun-sounding-aspect of the ZS6 and the analytical-monitoring-aspect of the DT880.  Either way, those who have a ZS6 and want an over-ear equivalent should call their local Guitar Center or local music store to see if they have a DT880 for audition.


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


> About 120 hours of full-album burn-in and full-playlist listening, I realize what the over-ear sound equivalent is to the KZ ZS6: Beyerdynamic DT880 (2012)!  The semi-open and bright sound with the slight details of a closed-back is what both have sound-wise.  However, what differs from both is the fun-sounding-aspect of the ZS6 and the analytical-monitoring-aspect of the DT880.  Either way, those who have a ZS6 and want an over-ear equivalent should call their local Guitar Center or local music store to see if they have a DT880 for audition.



1More H1707 is very close as well.


----------



## Aparker2005

I had a big live gig this weekend. Ended up opening for a major artist. Went out with my ZS10 on the drums for my iems. 

I have never had such a clear sound on stage as I did with these. I could hear my singer, guitars, and keys all individually, crystal clear. The bass was absolutely slamming. Highs were perfect.

I've been wanting to get a full workout of them to see how they'd perform and they did absolutely amazing. I could easily ditch every IEM I own with these  but I'll keep my zsr for backup.


----------



## Slater

Aparker2005 said:


> I had a big live gig this weekend. Ended up opening for a major artist.



So you’re going to keep us in suspense, eh? Ok, I see how it is.


----------



## Aparker2005

Slater said:


> So you’re going to keep us in suspense, eh? Ok, I see how it is.



Haha! David Crowder!


----------



## CYoung234 (Jun 18, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> 3dB is 2x power, but 10dB is 2x perceived loudness. They are not the same. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm
> 
> Also, 20dB is actually a 100x increase in power because it's multiplicative.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the correction. As far as the peak you are talking about, it is a ways above even soprano voice range. Tuning A is 440hz, Middle C is 261hz. A soprano can sing about 3 octaves. So the very top of a sopranos range is a little over 1000hz....

I do not hear the nasal characteristics you speak of, and I listen to a fair amount of female vocals in classical and other genres...


----------



## Mr. Browstone

Slater said:


> So glad you got your issue worked out!
> 
> I always prefer the easy solutions whenever possible
> 
> And yes, Aliexpress links are definitely allowed (and greatly appreciated by HeadFiers) as long as 1) they are not for a banned seller and 2) you remove all of the ‘referral junk’ after the .html




Ah, great. Well, here it is: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...260.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da24c4ddh7obf

It does seem I'm one of the first people to jump on it since I can't find any reviews or information on these anywhere.  I'll let you guys know how they work, once I get them in a month or so.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 18, 2018)

CYoung234 said:


> Thanks for the correction. As far as the peak you are talking about, it is a ways above even soprano voice range. Tuning A is 440hz, Middle C is 261hz. A soprano can sing about 3 octaves. So the very top of a sopranos range is a little over 1000hz....
> 
> I do not hear the nasal characteristics you speak of, and I listen to a fair amount of female vocals in classical and other genres...


You're correct about the frequency of the fundamentals for the notes in question. However, the voice and instrumental music contains a lot of harmonic content. This page has some graphs for typical frequency responses of the human voice: http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/audio/speech-level.html

Also, here you can see the frequency response of a violin, along with some interesting sound samples demonstrating the effect of harmonics on the sound: http://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/159th/cfritz.htm

I bring up violins because I listen to a lot of violin music and I find violin dynamics painful with the ZS10. You'll note in the above link that the peaks in the violin FR are right around the same place as that of the ZS10. I'll just point out that the highest note on a violin is E7, which corresponds to 2637.02 Hz, and isn't actually played all that often, so all that treble comes from harmonics.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 19, 2018)

Hifingage..

They are official KZ distributor in india

And they are checking QC issue, and channel balance before selling..

Just some of their extra charges, but worth every penny.

Plus, who want cable like Alpha and delta D6..

Venture electronics gives option for customisation and the cable I customised was of 65$.

Pure silver 8 braid with silver sleeve and machined MMCX  and rhodium plated Standard 3.5mm...

Cool


And cable is better than super expensive one

Cable resistivity is 0.1ohm


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 19, 2018)

Half a dozen of you can assist us all in getting a more clear picture since the ZS10 reviews still seem to be all over the place. It would be great if several ZS10 owners could give feedback on the same exact files.

.........of course, I've listed several files below to facilitate said feedback. 

Tell us what you are hearing and a clearer picture will begin to emerge.



Spoiler



ORCHESTRAL



TRUMPET


Guitar & Vocals 


Vocals/Folk







General statements can only serve as fuel for confusion because sonics vary from recording to recording. Of these two recordings one is torturous while the other is inviting.




Spoiler










Please tell us what you are hearing.

For those of you that wish to participate please "Reply" to this post so on-lookers have a reference point for your comments.

p.s. - Otto, feel free to PM me if you'd like to weigh in.

*** edit ***
An oversight on my part:
The first track somewhat sets the stage, if you will.There are moments of exuberance with occasional peaks but it should be a pleasant listening experience included mostly as a starting point and to provide a basis for contrast with subsequent tracks. Regarding "recessed mids" does the flute get buried? Can you hear the harpsichord? etc., etc., etc.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 19, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Half a dozen of you can assist us all in getting a more clear picture since the ZS10 reviews still seem to be all over the place. It would be great if several ZS10 owners could give feedback on the same exact files.
> 
> .........of course, I've listed several files below to facilitate said feedback.
> 
> ...



I'll bite.

Bach
I think most baroque music is a bit lacking in intense dynamics, and the flute has too soft a tembre, to really highlight the issue. I will say some of the high notes were unpleasant, such as at 3:55 and 4:01 but I don't think this piece has the dynamics to showcase the ZS10's problems. When it comes to orchestral music, I would say it's usually the timpani, higher strings, and brass during peaks and crescendos that are most likely to give me problems. This piece didn't really have much of that.

Louis Armstrong
Completely unlistenable. Every note the trumpet played had so much bite I could feel it pounding on my eardrums. I had to turn it down low enough to the point that I would not be able to enjoy the music at all. At this volume, I was able to hear the air conditioning across the room, which isn't exactly normal during IEM use. The T2 did not present any issue, nor the ES4, though with the latter it certainly had a bit of bite to it.

Van Morrison
Vocals sounded a bit off and that thing he does with his voice at 0:40 made me squirm a bit and want to turn down the volume. Same when the dynamics pick up at 2:44.

Simon and Garfunkle
Another song that's a bit too soothing to take issue with. The vocals seemed a bit buried in the mix at times and the higher notes in the instrumental accompaniment like at 0:43 seem a bit unpleasant but probably nothing I would have paid attention to if I wasn't listening for it.


Edit: Just realized I completely overlooked your second spoiler.

The Menuhin/Oistrakh was impossible to listen to on the ZS10 for more than a few seconds. I skipped around but it was bad throughout. The recording quality isn't the best but it didn't really bother me with the T2 and ES4. I didn't listen enough to note whether there were specific parts that I couldn't listen to with these other earphones.

The Steinbacher/Suwanai was mostly fine but accents such as at 0:47 were still overly harsh. There were others but I'd have to listen closely to take them all down. Overall it was a much better quality recording but also a softer presentation of the piece.

I'm also including two tracks below.



Spoiler



Female vocals, piano, strings, metal ballad

Vocals at 2:47 start to sound really nasal to me. It's a repeat of what happens at 1:54 but I think the slightly wider vibrato and increased dynamics is what made it more noticeable.

Solo violin

With the ZS10 harsh and grating from the very first note. Piercing on the high notes. Sounds great with T2 and ES4.


----------



## Strat Rider (Jun 19, 2018)

@NeonHD I had a similar feeling about my ZS6. I modded one pair by blocking one BA in each shell with poster tack.

I find for music, the single BA mod is the ticket.
For gaming I prefer them stock.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 19, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Half a dozen of you can assist us all in getting a more clear picture since the ZS10 reviews still seem to be all over the place. It would be great if several ZS10 owners could give feedback on the same exact files.
> 
> .........of course, I've listed several files below to facilitate said feedback.
> 
> ...



Agree with @ChaoticKinesis

Got my zs10 from my friend back just to test

Bach

To soft in representation, shows the recessed mid nature, well detailing is good, the instruments don't show the forwardness, laid back and far away, but percussion and transition is smooth..
Flute seems weaker and blurred though..

Louis Armstrong

Nasal behaviour plus trumpet are to much. They come forward and hit my face. Soundstage depth is negligible in this track for me.. Have to use neutralizer and then it came out pretty good.

Van Morrison

Mids were fine, but I think crossover is colouring the vocals. Warmish and good but still not accurate and too loud. Treble here was airy and smooth...again neutralizer came to rescue but I think after neutraliser, his vocal started to ring(treble decay) a little which I found annoying.

Simon and garnfunkle

Laid back and blurred but somehow giving me the sound of airyness, which seemed artificial...but its okay

Beethoven symphony 5

Okay, good sense of space but piano came to forward sometimes. Relaxing but some energy is at wrong place


Vocals
Scarborough fair(Japanese version from shummatsu nano)

Females vocal at 1:07 is unbearable and wrong sense on instrument location


Amplifier is Neurochrome HP1

Smartphone is Lenovo Z2 plus(24bit DAC enable hack)

Compared with TinAudio T2, KZES4 and ZhiYin Z5000


----------



## jeromeaparis

On Amazon.in (in India) nothing's true, everything's permited:
You will find for sale a so called ZS3 hybrid with DD+ BA !
https://www.amazon.in/Segolike-Earp...ie=UTF8&qid=1529345921&sr=8-1&keywords=KZ+ZS3

"Segolike KZ ZS3 In Ear Super Bass Earphone Hybrid Drive...
Super armature + dynamic unit sound advantage... 
The four voice coil"


----------



## acia

Mr. Browstone said:


> Thank you very much for all the help! They're definitely tighter now and I'm really happy with them again .
> 
> On a side note, I just ordered this to replace my stock cable and bypass the noisy headphone jack in my Xiaomi A1. Has anyone read anything about it? Sorry for uploading the screenshot but I can remember if AliExpress links are allowed.


pls let us know if the dac and amp of the cable is good, thank you.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Can someone recommend a good set of tips for KZ ZSR? I usually use the blue "whirlwind" wide-bore ones, but the bore is so wide, that the nozzle comes out of the tip almost completely and I can actually feel the mesh against the inside of my ear. Not really pleasant.


----------



## ralph9994 (Jun 19, 2018)

Using the ZS6 for a while now. Amazing for the price. They fall out of my left ear cause of my weird deformed ear canals or whatever. But the comply tx500 seem to work well on these.

Does anyone know a good replacement cable?


----------



## CYoung234

ChaoticKinesis said:


> You're correct about the frequency of the fundamentals for the notes in question. However, the voice and instrumental music contains a lot of harmonic content. This page has some graphs for typical frequency responses of the human voice: http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/audio/speech-level.html
> 
> Also, here you can see the frequency response of a violin, along with some interesting sound samples demonstrating the effect of harmonics on the sound: http://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/159th/cfritz.htm
> 
> I bring up violins because I listen to a lot of violin music and I find violin dynamics painful with the ZS10. You'll note in the above link that the peaks in the violin FR are right around the same place as that of the ZS10. I'll just point out that the highest note on a violin is E7, which corresponds to 2637.02 Hz, and isn't actually played all that often, so all that treble comes from harmonics.



Thanks. Yes, I am aware that the overtone series and the strength of various overtones is really what gives instruments and voices their characteristics. For example, a clarinet only produces the odd overtones, which explains a lot about why they sound the way they do. I also looked at some FR curves for the ZS10, which tell me what you have been saying. Still do not hear what you and a few others are hearing with these iems. They sound nothing like what the curve shows. I will listen to a few of the posted tracks later today or tomorrow to see if I can hear what you are describing. I listen to a lot of large orchestral music, and was a trumpet player, so I listen to a lot of brass music. Even large brass passages in recordings I am very familiar with do not show the kind of  problems being described. When I hear others (not you) call somethng unlistenable, that is a pretty strong statement. I hear nothing of the sort...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CYoung234 said:


> Thanks. Yes, I am aware that the overtone series and the strength of various overtones is really what gives instruments and voices their characteristics. For example, a clarinet only produces the odd overtones, which explains a lot about why they sound the way they do. I also looked at some FR curves for the ZS10, which tell me what you have been saying. Still do not hear what you and a few others are hearing with these iems. They sound nothing like what the curve shows. I will listen to a few of the posted tracks later today or tomorrow to see if I can hear what you are describing. I listen to a lot of large orchestral music, and was a trumpet player, so I listen to a lot of brass music. Even large brass passages in recordings I am very familiar with do not show the kind of  problems being described. When I hear others (not you) call somethng unlistenable, that is a pretty strong statement. I hear nothing of the sort...


You would be experiencing something clear and upfront but for some people it may be unbearable

Everyone ears are different 

Our gem can be your nightmare and vice versa

Instruments player and singer have a strong ear drum(pun intended, but no offense) and you get used to that...

Normal people find my 64audio u18t trebly, I don't find it.
They find etymotic lifeless and low fi, I find the cold and analytical bright.

They find ES4 super bassy and I find them good..


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 19, 2018)

KZ ED16 and ZSR is the series I respect. Whoever the one designed them(because I am damm sure, it is the same person, my instinct tells me), I want his autograph.

When you see the FR, you see a weird 4kHz dip which may look wrong. When you listen to all the KZ, they have ringing at 4kHz which make them sharp. The BA design had this fault and KZ won't spend money at improving BA when they are releasing model so quick. What they did, as per my knowledge, is to create a dip there which would be automatically compensated by ringing of driver itself(by the way ringing do get reduced as well, but still enough to compensate the dip).

This create a little more stage as instrument smoothly linger due to that lovely decay(its no more ringing).

So it creates a pseudo stage which an IEM should not be able to produce.

ED16 is plain love.

ZS10 sounds better with vocals and few instruments. It does resolve better when there are very few instrument in song..

六等星の夜 Magic Blue ver. By AIMER was well placed and huge in stage..

This song gets least effected by FR, until or unless the IEM is very bad and ZS10 did show its caliber. But female vocal were a little upfront but that's okay.

Piano were amazing and precis....

But ZS10 can't take Live It Up FIFA Russia 2018 anthem properly..

ES4 blew me away, slayed ED16 when playing FIFA anthem. Ohh man, the stage and separation...it shook the iBasso it01 and near 100$ iem price taggers.

FLAC 24bit 192kHz FIFA anthem


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jun 19, 2018)

Got my ED16, burned them for about 40 hours. The sound signature is really close to the ZS6. Not as good though, they don't sound as open, the upper mids and treble have a similar elevation and format with ZS6 but they are harsher and even distorted at some points. Just like you would imagine a ZS6 would sound if pushed over the limit and started distorting a tiny bit. Tried to listen for two hours at 40% volume and there's something about that unclear high range that gave me a headache. I can listen to ZS6 for hours no problem, even though they sound almost the same. I'll leave them to burn in some more, if nthing changes I'll open them up to block one of the BA.


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## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 19, 2018)

HerrXRDS said:


> Got my ED16, burned them for about 40 hours. The sound signature is really close to the ZS6. Not as good though, they don't sound as open, the upper mids and treble have a similar elevation and format with ZS6 but they are harsher and even distorted at some points. Just like you would imagine a ZS6 would sound if pushed over the limit and started distorting a tiny bit. Tried to listen for two hours at 40% volume and there's something about that unclear high range that gave me a headache. I can listen to ZS6 for hours no problem, even though they sound almost the same. I'll leave them to burn in some more, if nthing changes I'll open them up to block one of the BA.


I think your ED16 is damaged or QC issues...

ED16 is actually a little darker than ZS6 and little more smoother.

Harsh high range is not possible as harshness comes from 4kHz to 8kHz... And 4kHz is dipped with 8kHz recessed.

Do sine wave sweep by some android app showing you which freq is going while playing...

If 4kHz to 8kHz is elevated, then your ED16 is The defective version... The above frequency can sound elevated, but if its harsh then get it replaced...




They only have high treble and half the strength of ZS6


----------



## HerrXRDS

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I think your ED16 is damaged or QC issues...
> 
> ED16 is actually a little darker than ZS6 and little more smoother.
> 
> ...




I've measured both channels and get the exact same frequency response for left and right, I find it hard to believe the same defect exists in both headphones. You always assume the headphones are defective if it doesn't match your opinions. Do you have the ZS6 and ED16 in hand to do a side by side comparison? I'm telling you, they sound damn near close but I much prefer the ZS6.


----------



## mbwilson111

Opinions...that is the key word.

I am tired of opinions being stated as fact.


----------



## zazaboy

I think the recent kz iems got hyped a lot for what they deliver..


----------



## Superluc

zazaboy said:


> I think the recent kz iems got hyped a lot for what they deliver..


Maybe someone need to sell them...


----------



## mrmoto050

CoiL said:


> No no no. You understood me totally wrong!
> I said I found my *personal *TOTL IEM in modified IT01.
> Additionally I said I will try to modify ES4 to their best (for my ears and with my gear) and let You all here know how to achieve it. If ES4 is even worthy a modification, I don`t know yet as my ES4 is still on its way here.


Personally I don't think ES4 needs anything.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 19, 2018)

CYoung234 said:


> Thanks. Yes, I am aware that the overtone series and the strength of various overtones is really what gives instruments and voices their characteristics. For example, a clarinet only produces the odd overtones, which explains a lot about why they sound the way they do. I also looked at some FR curves for the ZS10, which tell me what you have been saying. Still do not hear what you and a few others are hearing with these iems. They sound nothing like what the curve shows. I will listen to a few of the posted tracks later today or tomorrow to see if I can hear what you are describing. I listen to a lot of large orchestral music, and was a trumpet player, so I listen to a lot of brass music. Even large brass passages in recordings I am very familiar with do not show the kind of  problems being described. When I hear others (not you) call somethng unlistenable, that is a pretty strong statement. I hear nothing of the sort...


I just want to be clear, when I say the ZS10 is unlistenable on certain tracks, I mean that very literally. Unlistenable as in squirming from pain because I feel as if it's grating or pounding on my eardrums. Sometimes it's individual notes, for example all the times I quoted in my last post literally made me wince. For the trumpet and first Bach concerto tracks, I really can't tolerate more than a few seconds without needing to take them out because every note is painful, even at quiet volumes, and my ears require a break.

The first thought that came to mind is that as a trumpet player, maybe your ears have grown accustomed to the unique tonal characteristics. But then that wouldn't really make sense because I play violin and can't listen to violin music on them. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, since people have different ears, but I don't know if this is a real phenomena.

Edit: Figured I'd also mention, I don't believe I've ever called another earphone unlistenable before.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

HerrXRDS said:


> I've measured both channels and get the exact same frequency response for left and right, I find it hard to believe the same defect exists in both headphones. You always assume the headphones are defective if it doesn't match your opinions. Do you have the ZS6 and ED16 in hand to do a side by side comparison? I'm telling you, they sound damn near close but I much prefer the ZS6.


I meant to say, it can be because I felt ZS6 too be artificial in detail

And see that dip, its an intended dip from most of the manufacturer but ed16 is more..

And, audio budget graph from my side is not that accurate, its a compensated graph

@HiFiChris used to have blogspot, where the peak on treble was way more clear.

And ED16 is extended and less trebly, see 10kHz...

4kHz dip is more.

I mean to say, zs6 was to hard to my ears, everyone have different ears.

And instrument harshness comes from region of 2kHz to 8kHz, tried, tested and neutralized by neutralizer....

ZS6 wasn't harsh but the cymbal hit me like a truck on some tracks..

Everyone have their own opinion, but you should know KZ quality control and should not argue on small topic...mine doesn't sound harsh..

It can be my ears, or I have a little superior QC than yours.

I don't have ZS6 at the moment....

And I regret not doing slater mod...

I broke my ZS5 at the worst moment, when they released ZS5v2..

We have our own taste, but harshness is still not a possibility

4kHz is 3dB lower and 10kHz is also somewhat 2.5dB lower and these can make a sibilant IEM a non sibilant one....


Other things are your preference, as I don't like ZS10, other may like it..

And yup, I am proud that I did Golden ear training of Harman and Philips...


And ran STAX CD on multiple IEM and headphones.....

So I am just to technical for normal people

Sorry, if you felt something bad or forcefully

ZS6 ain't bad, but metals and rock is something I can't bear with ZS6....

Try ZS5v1 and you will get to know what I liked

ED16 is a less smooth ZS5v1.....which was KZ best IEM till date and the worst thing they did by replacing them....

No means of triggering anyone....

But today I am emotionally too weak....


----------



## trellus

So... to whichever member who reported my post about a banned product:

I don't get why instead or REPORTING me for asking a sincere question -- and for God's sakes, I don't keep a list of HEAD-FI BANNED VENDORS in my brain -- that member didn't simply suggest a non-banned alternative.

This place is becoming less and less friendly.


----------



## Slater

jeromeaparis said:


> On Amazon.in (in India) nothing's true, everything's permited:
> You will find for sale a so called ZS3 hybrid with DD+ BA !
> https://www.amazon.in/Segolike-Earp...ie=UTF8&qid=1529345921&sr=8-1&keywords=KZ+ZS3
> 
> ...



If I had a dollar for every inaccurate description on Amazon, eBay, Aliexpress, etc I’d be a millionaire.


----------



## mrmoto050

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I just want to be clear, when I say the ZS10 is unlistenable on certain tracks, I mean that very literally. Unlistenable as in squirming from pain because I feel as if it's grating or pounding on my eardrums. Sometimes it's individual notes, for example all the times I quoted in my last post literally made me wince. For the trumpet and first Bach concerto tracks, I really can't tolerate more than a few seconds without needing to take them out because every note is painful, even at quiet volumes, and my ears require a break.
> 
> The first thought that came to mind is that as a trumpet player, maybe your ears have grown accustomed to the unique tonal characteristics. But then that wouldn't really make sense because I play violin and can't listen to violin music on them. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, since people have different ears, but I don't know if this is a real phenomena.
> 
> Edit: Figured I'd also mention, I don't believe I've ever called another earphone unlistenable before.


So.. Source? Volume Level?


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> I also looked at some FR curves for the ZS10, which tell me what you have been saying. Still do not hear what you and a few others are hearing with these iems. They sound nothing like what the curve shows.



Keep in mind that 98% of graphs you see are DIY graphs, are not compensated results, and are not taken on standardized measuring equipment.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> If I had a dollar for every inaccurate description on Amazon, eBay, Aliexpress, etc I’d be a millionaire.


True....

Actually you would have been a billionaire...
When nicehck bro and KZ ZS6 can sell for 150USD, just imagine what would be ZS10.


Actually Indian prices are messed up

Jive sells for under 10$
KZ sells more than what you can think
Hifiman sells cheap
Beyerdynamic sells cheap as hell(except of dt100, that crap is for real 110k INR or 20k USD )
Audio technica is a daily brand..

By the way, their is a company here, which in actual terms modified KZ ate.

BoAt  Nirvana uno, looks like KZ ate with ugly body, but sounds less boomy and more HiFi... I asked the representative and he said that we got cheaper body ATE from OEM and then added some 1mm foam at back...

Evidson makes their earphone India and are also way good. Titanium coated mylar diaphragm with N52 magnet.. Z4 is the name..

Signature acoustic is expensive Indian IEM, and OB1 is open back bamboo model sounding like grado with a little tamed treble and tight bass response. 

Tekfusion twinwoofers is also indian and was reviewed @ljokerl , which is a skullcandy signature but way tight decay response making them bold... Sub Bass is well loose, making them sound like woofers.

Muve acoustic drive sounds like little vieled etymotic er4.. I mean lifeless etymotic but good treble response... Neutral

Well leave that

Only one brand in India, which can be of KZ bloodline is BoAt. They are mostly modified KZ and sounds very good. Now they got UiiSii triple driver tuned and sold by them..


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Keep in mind that 98% of graphs you see are DIY graphs, are not compensated results, and are not taken on standardized measuring equipment.



Woah! Get that logic outta here!


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> Got my ED16, burned them for about 40 hours. The sound signature is really close to the ZS6. Not as good though, they don't sound as open, the upper mids and treble have a similar elevation and format with ZS6 but they are harsher and even distorted at some points. Just like you would imagine a ZS6 would sound if pushed over the limit and started distorting a tiny bit. Tried to listen for two hours at 40% volume and there's something about that unclear high range that gave me a headache. I can listen to ZS6 for hours no problem, even though they sound almost the same. I'll leave them to burn in some more, if nthing changes I'll open them up to block one of the BA.



How will you know which BA to block? ED16 has 2 different BAs (30095 and 50060).

Even if you block the BA that is causing your problem, there’s no guarantee that you’ll block the same BA in the other shell.

You could potentially block 1 50060 in the left, and the 30095 in the right. Or you could block both 50060s, when in reality it’s the 30095s that were causing you the problems.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 19, 2018)

If the mad scientists at KZ Acoustics are on their game they will issue this hybrid with their 6mm micro-dynamic for quick and textured bass coupled with their midrange BA for a vivid mid range  (basically a more refined ZS3). 

IMHO, this is one KZ that should remain warm and detailed. There are more than enough KZ hybrids with varying degrees of treble extension for micro-detail.

 In short, a more refined EDR1 sound signature with bangin' bass, silky mids and very comfortable treble.


----------



## Slater (Jun 19, 2018)

So let’s get back on track with discussing KZs.

If you could ask KZ to make your next dream audio product, what would it be?

I would ask them to make an device similar to the amp that was attached to the ZN1, but such that you could attach any headphones (optimized for 32ohm and below, since that covers 99% of their products).

It would not only have headphone amplification, but tone control as well (tri-band would be fine, but more granular controls would be even better).

People could use it to tweak the sound to their liking, such as dialing in more forward midrange on the ZST, dialing down the treble on the ZS6, etc.


----------



## Lorspeaker

sounds really good on my zs10 ..


----------



## HungryPanda

Lorspeaker said:


> sounds really good on my zs10 ..


That sure gave my ZS10's a little workout and they sounded fine


----------



## CoiL

mrmoto050 said:


> Personally I don't think ES4 needs anything.


Good to know... but I doubt it is comparable to IT01 (even in stock configuration). But I`ll know better when I receive my ES4(teal, no-mic).


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 19, 2018)

Slater said:


> So let’s get back on track with discussing KZs.
> 
> If you could ask KZ to make your next dream audio product, what would it be?



Truth be told, it would be my previous post because the ZS3 is my most comfortable IEM.........



DocHoliday said:


> If the mad scientists at KZ Acoustics are on their game they will issue this hybrid with their 6mm micro-dynamic for quick and textured bass coupled with their midrange BA for a vivid mid range  (basically a more refined ZS3).
> 
> IMHO, this is one KZ that should remain warm and detailed. There are more than enough KZ hybrids with varying degrees of treble extension for micro-detail.
> 
> In short, a more refined EDR1 sound signature with bangin' bass, silky mids and very comfortable treble.



 ........but I would want them issued as a bundle.

One in black (warm and silky sound)
One in white (airy and clean).

VE tried this with the "Biggie" & "Smalls" and Kinera seems to be going for it with their Kinera "Seed" in black and their upcoming "Seed" in white (at least that was their communication to me).



Spoiler






 






Other than this I'd really like to see KZ revisit and perfect a single dynamic driver IEM and issue them under a specific line like an "EX" prefix or the well received and already established "AT" prefix. Currently, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the "ED" or "ZS" monikers. KZ should put those prefixes to better use. Perhaps the "ZS" line for hybrids, the "ED" line for more neutral-leaning KZ's and the "HDS" line for micro-DD's (under said organizing the ED15 could have been dubbed the HDS5 due to it's micro-dynamic driver) while the "ES" line could be for....... 

Launching an "EX" line or focusing the "AT" line specifically on single DD's and offering a dual pack (one bright and one warm) would be a great start.

They have soooooo many models coming out and with KZ's introduction of purely BA focused IEMs now would be the best time to organize things......... or you can simply expect chaos to ensue.


----------



## mrmoto050 (Jun 19, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> If the mad scientists at KZ Acoustics are on their game they will issue this hybrid with their 6mm micro-dynamic for quick and textured bass coupled with their midrange BA for a vivid mid range  (basically a more refined ZS3).
> 
> IMHO, this is one KZ that should remain warm and detailed. There are more than enough KZ hybrids with varying degrees of treble extension for micro-detail.
> 
> In short, a more refined EDR1 sound signature with bangin' bass, silky mids and very comfortable treble.


Isn't that the ZS4?  Deleted wrong product in comment. new comment: when will these be released?.


----------



## mrmoto050

CoiL said:


> Good to know... but I doubt it is comparable to IT01 (even in stock configuration). But I`ll know better when I receive my ES4(teal, no-mic).


I don't own the IT01


----------



## svil3

deco cat said:


> Are the 500 the more appropriate for ZS6? How about sound quality with waxguard?



I believe that the waxguard actually helps to mitagate a little the piercing treble on ZS6, I use mine with those comply  tips and the sealed vent and it one of my favorite IEMs


----------



## Slater

mrmoto050 said:


> Isn't that the ZS4? I ordered 2 of them, and you are right about the signature. Really enjoyable.



Unless you own a time machine, the ZS4 is not out yet.


----------



## Dickymint

Folks, anybody got Shozy Hibiki headphones, what do they sound like compared to the ZS series? The special editions look good!


----------



## HerrXRDS

Slater said:


> How will you know which BA to block? ED16 has 2 different BAs (30095 and 50060).
> 
> Even if you block the BA that is causing your problem, there’s no guarantee that you’ll block the same BA in the other shell.
> 
> You could potentially block 1 50060 in the left, and the 30095 in the right. Or you could block both 50060s, when in reality it’s the 30095s that were causing you the problems.




You can see the BAs thru the housing, here is a picture, zoom in and you can see the 30095 written on it. I will use Rodico to block one of them, it can be removed later if I change my mind.


----------



## mrmoto050

Slater said:


> Unless you own a time machine, the ZS4 is not out yet.


You are so right my mistake, ES4's will edit.


----------



## Adide

I've used some graphs borrowed from Crinacle database to doodle Harman Kardon response target over a few KZ models.
Some of you might find them useful.

Also my 4 year old kid doodled over her stuff so yeah... very profi stuff going on here...

What do you think? Flagrant mistakes?

Now I know why ZS10 is harsh and shouty at higher commuting volume (but can't tell yet why treble feels more synthetic and less airy than zs5v1's, only guessing).
I'm trying to fix them via eq but I'm skeptical the upper treble can be salvaged with a regular 10 bands.

Also ES4 looks probably in the same ballpark mids wise with more bass and shy treble - don't think so.
I will probably give ED16 a whirl though, can't see huge issues there (that 8k peak is debatable).


----------



## CYoung234

Slater said:


> Keep in mind that 98% of graphs you see are DIY graphs, are not compensated results, and are not taken on standardized measuring equipment.



Thanks for the reminder. That is a big reason why I trust my ears more than graphs. A lot of the test music I use is very familiar. I know how they sound in the auditoriums they were recorded in.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 19, 2018)

Slater said:


> Keep in mind that 98% of graphs you see are DIY graphs, are not compensated results, and are not taken on standardized measuring equipment.


I would contend that singular DIY graphs from a person we don't know are probably more reliable than subjective impressions from that same person, particularly when considering how unreliable our absolute hearing is and how easily colored it is by various biases.

I wouldn't trust my own ears in an absolute sense, without a reference, despite the fact that I think I have pretty good hearing after having played and been around music all my life. Considering all the subjectivity in audio discussions, I have even less reason to trust the opinions of random individuals whose preferences are unfamiliar to me. This is before accounting for actual physical differences in hearing between individuals, whether due to biological reasons, electrical, environmental, etc.

Furthermore, if I see 5 DIY graphs from different sources that mostly agree with each other, I think it's safe to say that either they're colluding with each other or the graphs are reasonably accurate. Since I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I choose to assume the latter.


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed some posts from the thread for going off topic. Please keep the discussion within the posting guidelines, and let's keep this thread related to the KZ IEMs please.


----------



## psygeist

10/10 for the expert doodles.


----------



## pbui44

Okay, for my 1,500th post and what would be my “Headphoneus Surpremus” status:

If anyone’s KZ is beating up their ears a some specific place or in general, a good non-KZ alternative is the Panasonic ErgoFit RP-HJE120 or RP-HJE125, like this one:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Panasonic-Wired-Earphones-Wired-Purple-RP-HJE125-V/729134342

Aaahhh, ErgoFit is soooo nice after wearing my ZS6 for so many hours.


----------



## psygeist

I just listened to Dreamer - Sako Isoyan. I just cannot bear ZS10, it has got this too spaced out feeling for the bass in a gigantic soundstage, along with the tiny mids, it drives me mad. ES4 is much better and natural, fun too. ZS10 is strange. I am using the same tips for both to avoid any differences from tips.


----------



## mbwilson111

psygeist said:


> I am using the same tips for both to avoid any differences from tips.



Sometimes different IEMs require different tips.


----------



## dabachata

B9Scrambler said:


> ATR is an enhanced ATE. Same sound signature but with improved extension and better build quality. No way can it be considered inferior. Just hold and listen to the two back to back.



So why is the ATR cheaper than the ATE and ATE S?

If I would buy a <$12 KZ model launched in 2016, taking in mind the (many?) revisions they had (so comparing new in stock to new in stock units) what would be a good buy for me? Something for a huge range of genres (acoustic instruments, classical music, current pop hits, some EDM) and suiting my preference for a balanced sound signature with a slightly emphasized but well-controlled/accurate bass that does not bleed into mids, and detailed treble, more analytical than forgiving, what would be the best pick? ATR I'd guess based on what I've read, but with the many revisions of all the models I'm not sure hence my question. Models that I own and enjoy a lot: Remax RM-610D, KZ ZS5v2, DZAT DF-10 and to a slightly lesser degree Tennmak Porcelain. Non-KZ model suggestions are also welcome, but see info below 

(<$12 seems to be ATE, ATE S, ATR, HD9, older ED and EDR series, maybe ZST but nothing other in the ZS range)
(I also own the Einsear T2 and UiiSii HM7 but much prefer the RM-610D somehow. Rock Zircon is way to bassy for me as it turns out. Plextone, Joyroom, Boarseman also don't hold out to RM-610D for me, though the Boarseman CX98 might well be defective with me as it does not sound at all like described in the reviews; I'm working on a larger post where I share my experiences with these models I mentioned here but not yet done ...)


----------



## neueziel

Just got the ZS6 today and I am blown away.  These are very good and imo are better than some $1K+ iems.


----------



## acia

neueziel said:


> Just got the ZS6 today and I am blown away.  These are very good and imo are better than some $1K+ iems.


till you tried audeze isine or kse 1500.


----------



## neueziel

acia said:


> till you tried audeze isine or kse 1500.



Thanks i'll check those out at the next canjam.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

dabachata said:


> So why is the ATR cheaper than the ATE and ATE S?
> 
> If I would buy a <$12 KZ model launched in 2016, taking in mind the (many?) revisions they had (so comparing new in stock to new in stock units) what would be a good buy for me? Something for a huge range of genres (acoustic instruments, classical music, current pop hits, some EDM) and suiting my preference for a balanced sound signature with a slightly emphasized but well-controlled/accurate bass that does not bleed into mids, and detailed treble, more analytical than forgiving, what would be the best pick? ATR I'd guess based on what I've read, but with the many revisions of all the models I'm not sure hence my question. Models that I own and enjoy a lot: Remax RM-610D, KZ ZS5v2, DZAT DF-10 and to a slightly lesser degree Tennmak Porcelain. Non-KZ model suggestions are also welcome, but see info below
> 
> ...


There must be some discount because I see ATR sitting between ATE and ATE S in prices..



neueziel said:


> Just got the ZS6 today and I am blown away.  These are very good and imo are better than some $1K+ iems.



Try campfire Andromeda, the real ZS6(KZ copied Campfire)...it is plain and simple sound(lol, no, its like Andromeda galaxy of sound)...its imaging is so spot on, that it makes you feel that imaging has been turn into staging. No KZ issue, slight V ~Uish shape balanced...

It creates perfect height, width and depth(well a little less) and is like helmet of sound, surrounding your head.


----------



## maxxevv (Jun 19, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Half a dozen of you can assist us all in getting a more clear picture since the ZS10 reviews still seem to be all over the place. It would be great if several ZS10 owners could give feedback on the same exact files.
> 
> .........of course, I've listed several files below to facilitate said feedback.
> 
> ...



The flute does get buried by the other strings in some segments but mostly because I think the solo was standing too far from the mike and that the other instruments as well as the stage was too closed in. The energy that a flute can project is very limited compared to much larger instruments or those with a higher pitch. 

Yes I could pick out the Harpsichord with no issues at all.



Spoiler






DocHoliday said:


> TRUMPET
> 
> 
> Guitar & Vocals
> ...






These seem to location limited. I can't open them at all unfortunately.



DocHoliday said:


> General statements can only serve as fuel for confusion because sonics vary from recording to recording. Of these two recordings one is torturous while the other is inviting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That Menuhin and Oistrakh duet is the stuff of legends.
But its a really badly recorded track though, a lot of bad harmonics and lots of bad background coughing. The full complement orchestra (rather than an ensemble) on stage definitely didn't help.
Most likely because the mike was placed too far out and then volume adjusted to compensate for it. And it sounded very compressed and flat too as in the accompanying ensemble sounded very mashed up altogether. Was it a mono recording ?
The first movement was pretty bad, the second sounded better overall in terms of sound dynamics.
But if you listen intently, you can still pick out the trademark Oistrakh touches as well as Menuhin's much loved lyrical play though.

The Steinbacher and Suwanai version is much easier on the ears as it a much better recording as you have none of the odd harmonics present in the first video. The venue as well as orchestral support definitely made things sound better.  If you took a look closely at the mike location, it was specifically placed overhead between the 2 ladies and height adjusted during mid-session for the orchestral sound balance. Background coughing was evidently there between the 2nd and 3rd movements though. The nuances of the cello and support strings were far easier to pick out on this.

But if I were to compare the quality of play, I wouldn't say the ladies did it better as there weren't those moments when the music draws you emotionally in.
Pleasantly enjoyable no doubt and they did great playing in complement of each other,  sounded better in that aspect compared to the Menuhin and Oistrakh one. Clearly the ladies have spend far more time rehearsing before this performance compared to the two gentlemen. 

Listening devices used (for notation purposes):

i) KZ ZS10
ii) Thinkpad notebook > ES9028Q2M DAC Amp with volume at approximately 25% while a HD6XX will go up to approximately 60% on the same setup. (raw notebook volume would be about 10~15% higher for both cases)


----------



## Turbo AL (Jun 20, 2018)

trellus said:


> So... to whichever member who reported my post about a banned product:
> 
> I don't get why instead or REPORTING me for asking a sincere question -- and for God's sakes, I don't keep a list of HEAD-FI BANNED VENDORS in my brain -- that member didn't simply suggest a non-banned alternative.
> 
> This place is becoming less and less friendly.



One good way to remember the name of the banned seller is to think that they should make it "easier" to remember who the banned seller is and that will automatically jog your memory to who you're not supposed to be talking about. AL


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 20, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> The flute does get buried by the other strings in some segments but mostly because I think the solo was standing too far from the mike and that the other instruments as well as the stage was too closed in. The energy that a flute can project is very limited compared to much larger instruments or those with a higher pitch.
> 
> Yes I could pick out the Harpsichord with no issues at all.
> 
> ...



We are in full agreement regarding which "performance" is superior. The difference in which one is torture to listen to is what I was after in regards to the ZS10. Some recordings are simply atrocious but sometimes they are all we have for a given performance (most artists are under contract in one house or another - Menuhin was under contract with EMI).

I actually prefer the Stern/Perlman performance but both are legendary performances.



Spoiler


----------



## hydroid

CoiL said:


> Good to know... but I doubt it is comparable to IT01 (even in stock configuration). But I`ll know better when I receive my ES4(teal, no-mic).



Difference is night and day for me. The amount of details and quality of sound of the IT01 for a single DD is very impressive. ES4 is not that bad..it's just that IT01 is on a different league.


----------



## hiflofi

ZS10's FR looks fine on Crinacle's measurements. I don't have one but I do want to try it right about now.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

hydroid said:


> Difference is night and day for me. The amount of details and quality of sound of the IT01 for a single DD is very impressive. ES4 is not that bad..it's just that IT01 is on a different league.


Try Zhiyin Z5000 with Venture Electronic junkosha silver mmcx cable 8 braid and spiral dot.

I can guarantee you,,, you will stop listening other IEM...

Even if I throw HifiMan re2000, you will throw them away

@Nymphonomaniac 

After two exchange, I got the better Z5000 or the driver QC solved version...

They are not iBasso driver but beyerdynamic driver....it is known as Tesla driver and it has 3 layer of diaphragm with magnet reaching 1.4 Tesla.

iBasso have driver magnet reaching Tesla..

The Bass drop is on godly level, phantomic reach



OK, KZ have....sorry had one IEM, and that was the lovely KZ ZS5 v1 which was nodded by someone in this thread, I also did it, open back(crudish mod) before giving them away...

It had phenomenal stage and speed but ZhiYin Z5000 is still more coherent.

Spiral dot was used to loose some bass as the subbass was ethereal and unbearable with symbio tips. 

Best part is that the subbass is only boosted, and then mid bass to treble its a conventional balanced tuning without decay


----------



## hydroid (Jun 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Try Zhiyin Z5000 with Venture Electronic junkosha silver mmcx cable 8 braid and spiral dot.
> 
> I can guarantee you,,, you will stop listening other IEM...
> 
> ...



That depends on your opinion and preference. But some people say z5000 sounds dark and if that's the case I won't like it as my preference leans toward neutral to bright signature. So throwing my IT01 is far beyond imagination just saying..lol..


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 20, 2018)

hydroid said:


> That depends on your opinion and preference. But some people say z5000 sounds dark and if that's the case I won't like it as my preference leans toward neutral to bright signature. So throwing my IT01 is far beyond imagination just saying..lol..


It was too bassy, then hazy...now I got a good QC edition..

I replaced 2 times before getting the perfect pair

IBasso is love, I used it with CB12s silver copper dual wire and mid bass bleed vanished and treble got some sparkle...

But I sold it on profit.   I will buy one, send to @CoiL for mod(if he agrees) and then use cb12s...

Till then I am working on a certain foam, which work something like ETL(embedded transmission line) which will take care of dual Helmholtz resonator cons.....the subbass decay(iBasso decay is natural, but decay is still decay and if tightened up...it can sound somewhat nicer)


KZ ES4, I am thinking of replacing armature with Knowles but finding the exact same spec driver....so that I don't have to change the crossovers.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Till then I am working on a certain foam, which work something like ETL(embedded transmission line) which will take care of dual Helmholtz resonator cons.....the subbass decay(iBasso decay is natural, but decay is still decay and if tightened up...it can sound somewhat nicer)


Using foam to get it right could be harder way to go but maybe You hit "luck" with certain foam fast, I hope You do.
I used different approach with wood - certain length, width, angle wooden "piston" attached to backplate (for soundwaves dissipation/transition/absorption) right behind driver venting hole (perfectly centered).
Anyway, I did fine tuning by hand (annoying open-close(airtight)) and got rid of that "sub-bass decay", decreased littlebit sub-bass quantity and improved its tightness, raised littlebit midbass and its details/clarity, overall making whole sound signature more balanced, transparent, detailed(micro) and natural/coherent with natural air/decay/reverb.


dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ ES4, I am thinking of replacing armature with Knowles but finding the exact same spec driver....so that I don't have to change the crossovers.


I will see what I can do with those and let You know. I`m not fan of removing BA`s and drivers (desoldering) as it can easily damage(alter) sound of each individual unit as I don`t have very professional soldering station.

Oh, just realized this is KZ thread not chi-fi. Delete by admin if needed and sorry for OT.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 20, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Using foam to get it right could be harder way to go but maybe You hit "luck" with certain foam fast, I hope You do.
> I used different approach with wood - certain length, width, angle wooden "piston" attached to backplate (for soundwaves dissipation/transition/absorption) right behind driver venting hole (perfectly centered).
> Anyway, I did fine tuning by hand (annoying open-close(airtight)) and got rid of that "sub-bass decay", decreased littlebit sub-bass quantity and improved its tightness, raised littlebit midbass and its details/clarity, overall making whole sound signature more balanced, transparent, detailed(micro) and natural/coherent with natural air/decay/reverb.
> 
> ...


You opened the iBasso, Helmholtz resonator issue are already gone bro...

Helmholtz resonator can increase subBass, but due to late pressure release of Helmholtz resonator, decay increases substantially. Dual Helmholtz resonator is 4times normal resonator. IBasso took a perfect bass shy driver which can provide linear signature overall till 40kHz(there is rolloff but I think iBasso roll of is subtle and they are extended) and then added Helmholtz resonator to increase bass without touching driver electrical factor, complete mechanical excursion due to air pressure.... But when pressure is released in the cavity of IEM, the vent I saw on iBasso were very small, leading to driver flex and mid bass bleed for some. You just opened the pressure up and slight wood colouration(you gave it too many port to even get a woody sound)...that's why its TOTL..



KZ ES4 with spiral dot cleans bass and treble as the seal gets a little bad(loose bass) and internal polka dot suppress 5kHz and 10kHz without touching other frequencies. Use SPC cable

KZ ES4 with this mod makes them balanced sounding and lesser V shape. It sounds more open due to bad seal but booming bass and spiral dot takes care of treble issue. SQ wise nailed it.

You can also use Ostry 200 tips, but then reduce bass in equaliser. Open sounding and more air with even less chance f sibilance. Male vocal hollowness, if reported by some, is fixed...more cohesive sound due to front filter.


----------



## SiggyFraud

SiggyFraud said:


> Can someone recommend a good set of tips for KZ ZSR? I usually use the blue "whirlwind" wide-bore ones, but the bore is so wide, that the nozzle comes out of the tip almost completely and I can actually feel the mesh against the inside of my ear. Not really pleasant.


Any good tips for KZ ZSR besides blue "whirlwinds"?


----------



## TheVortex

SiggyFraud said:


> Any good tips for KZ ZSR besides blue "whirlwinds"?



New bee foams are good for the price.


----------



## zazaboy (Jun 20, 2018)

neueziel said:


> Just got the ZS6 today and I am blown away.  These are very good and imo are better than some $1K+ iems.



@neueziel 

which tips and eq are you using .. I am interested


----------



## dhruvmeena96

zazaboy said:


> @neueziel
> 
> which tips and eq are you using .. I am interested


Ask him, which IEM did he compared which costs 1000$.

I think I can compare ES4 with some expensive IEM but not that expensive....


----------



## zazaboy (Jun 20, 2018)

yeah the funny thing is how can kz zs6 be good then some other 1k iems..  I cant imagine that really.. or the 1k iems are overpriced or kz zs6 is actually a gem and I dont know it lol.. btw I have kz zs6 too


----------



## CoiL (Jun 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> You opened the iBasso, Helmholtz resonator issue are already gone bro...


Actually, no. Just making them open back actually makes them worse in sub-bass part (too loose, more quantity, over-shadowing mid-bass and its details).


dhruvmeena96 said:


> Helmholtz resonator can increase subBass, but due to late pressure release of Helmholtz resonator, decay increases substantially. Dual Helmholtz resonator is 4times normal resonator. IBasso took a perfect bass shy driver which can provide linear signature overall till 40kHz(there is rolloff but I think iBasso roll of is subtle and they are extended) and then added Helmholtz resonator to increase bass without touching driver electrical factor, complete mechanical excursion due to air pressure.... But when pressure is released in the cavity of IEM, the vent I saw on iBasso were very small, leading to driver flex and mid bass bleed for some. You just opened the pressure up and slight wood colouration(you gave it too many port to even get a woody sound)...that's why its TOTL..


Driver flex problem with IT01 lies in front nozzle vent because even removing driver back vent fabric filter doesn`t remove driver flex completely.
I agree about the perfect tuned linear signature driver though and the help of helmholtz resonator.
But You didn`t seem to understand what I did to "turn backwards" issue caused from open shell but retain good part of it (my mod is not about just making them open-back with sheer wood "wall" behind driver venting hole):


CoiL said:


> I used different approach with wood - *certain length, width, angle wooden "piston" attached to backplate (for soundwaves dissipation/transition/absorption) right behind driver venting hole (perfectly centered).*
> Anyway, I did fine tuning by hand (annoying open-close(airtight)) and got rid of that "sub-bass decay", decreased littlebit sub-bass quantity and improved its tightness, raised littlebit midbass and its details/clarity, overall making whole sound signature more balanced, transparent, detailed(micro) and natural/coherent with natural air/decay/reverb.


That "piston" is hard to tune "right" giving enough "backwards air-pressure" to driver membrane through venting hole but at same time retain "open-shell" effect and wood sound properties (reflection/absorption of certain fr).

Sorry again for OT. Just needed to explain this one...


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 20, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Actually, no. Just making them open back actually makes them worse in sub-bass part (too loose, more quantity, over-shadowing mid-bass and its details).
> 
> Driver flex problem with IT01 lies in front nozzle vent because even removing driver back vent fabric filter doesn`t remove driver flex completely.
> I agree about the perfect tuned linear signature driver though and the help of helmholtz resonator.
> ...


I agree to the driver flex due to front of nozzle..... That's too small of vent...

Piston by the meaning, you want to say mass anchor?...

Because, how can you add something which moves..

Open back from @Slater experience do increase bass response....and I agree as driver excursion is freed( but decay should be still somewhat bearable I think...

Well can you do the wood mod for me too...(I will pay via PayPal)

Not right now by the way




And yes

Today I found a video where a guy was comparing ZS10 to 64audio u6 and said ZS10 was comparably good and better...

I was like....okay wait....I think they sound okay, and on some track unbearable.... How can they be better than u6, because I have also heard u6(they sound a little intimate, but are good)


----------



## CoiL (Jun 20, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Piston by the meaning, you want to say mass anchor?...
> Because, how can you add something which moves..


Well, I did use "" around "piston". Let me say more clearly then - cylinder. "piston" was derived from automotive term, something that "hits back/against pressure".
That cylinder is hardest part to get right angle/length/width and perfectly centered... that`s why I went with CNC way (and used hand-fine-tuning).
I will talk more about it and maybe even share CAD drawings to everyone when I finish writing "review" at IT01 thread. Patience please, takes time off from baby, house etc.  

PS, sorry KZ fans, won`t rubbish this thread anymore.


----------



## crinacle

I too, am curious as to what "$1000 IEMs" the ZS6 supposedly beats.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

crinacle said:


> I too, am curious as to what "$1000 IEMs" the ZS6 supposedly beats.


Same here bro....I think its time to update your IEM list and put KZ ZS6 there lol

"S" class

Rofl


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I think KZ ES4 killer came to the market

Xiaomi in ear Pro 2 QTEJ03JY

Reviews are going good.. Graphene diaphragm and proprietary BA designed now in collab with 1more and xiaomi(older one were 1more)

Don't know about these.....I will get a friend to buy these lol


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I heard T2 beats $5,000 IEMs. Can anyone confirm if that's true?


----------



## mrmoto050

It's all fake news, didn't you hear?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I heard T2 beats $5,000 IEMs. Can anyone confirm if that's true?


Well it does stand toe to toe with GR07 AE edition and GR09(GR07 classic is tad bit slower but natural too, T2 are faster)

I have heard Final Lab II, and I think T2 is a baby in womb whereas Final Lab II are the Father.....

Plain No Competition..... Final Lab II sounds like focal utopia miniaturised and stage like IMAX while maintaining neutrality....

Yup, I think they are better than Obravo(but then I don't even consider Obravo great)....Obravo may have bigger stage, better bass response.....but the SQ is too sharp for me... So T2 any day(but I think Obravo EAMT is technical monstor and to fast but treble seems to annoy only me)


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I think KZ ES4 killer came to the market
> 
> Xiaomi in ear Pro 2 QTEJ03JY
> 
> ...



Why should anything be called  a (insert name here) killer?  Can't there be many good ones each with their own unique charms.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Heeeehhaahhaha...

True.

But they have same specsheet and arrangement

Leave it, I wanted to have fun


mbwilson111 said:


> Why should anything be called  a (insert name here) killer?  Can't there be many good ones each with their own unique charms.


----------



## youngarthur

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I heard T2 beats $5,000 IEMs. Can anyone confirm if that's true?


Yes, its true!. My KZ EDR1 also beat my 846/W60.........Sorry, I woke up, I was dreaming.


----------



## Slater

youngarthur said:


> Yes, its true!. My KZ EDR1 also beat my 846/W60.........Sorry, I woke up, I was dreaming.



My EDR1 beat most IEMs costing $500 *million* dollars.

In Zimbabwe dollars: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/12/12/zimbabwe.currency/


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 20, 2018)

Well I will talk something reasonable

My KZ ATE is better than any skullcandy and Beats...

And my oldie KZ ZST is better than 1000million USD iem

*bass trigggerred pewdiepie style*


----------



## DocHoliday

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I heard T2 beats $5,000 IEMs. Can anyone confirm if that's true?


----------



## C2thew

still no word of the KZ zs4 release eh?  That's the only IEM from KZ that i'm waiting for at this time.

Anyone interested in buying my brand new spare KZ ZS10?  I'll charge for what I purchased it for and It'll be delivered within 3 days.


----------



## chickenmoon

dhruvmeena96 said:


> My KZ ATE is better than any skullcandy and Beats...



Skullcandy Smokin' Buds 2 are excellent and certainly better than my ATE. Check out cgslinux's Xelento review to learn more about them.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

DocHoliday said:


>


Relax, I'm well aware that at $5,001 IEMs are already in another league.


----------



## mbwilson111

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Relax, I'm well aware that at $5,001 IEMs are already in another league.



Yes, certainly  out of my league.


----------



## surfacecube

Hello guys, received my ES4 two weeks ago and burned em without a prior listening. Finished burning in yesterday and finally started to listen to them. I was hyped, until I noticed there's a huge hissing/whispering in the left ear that is not present on the right side. I know there's supposed to be some in the track to an extent, checked with my ZS5v1. Do I have a faulty/wonky pair ?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

surfacecube said:


> Hello guys, received my ES4 two weeks ago and burned em without a prior listening. Finished burning in yesterday and finally started to listen to them. I was hyped, until I noticed there's a huge hissing/whispering in the left ear that is not present on the right side. I know there's supposed to be some in the track to an extent, checked with my ZS5v1. Do I have a faulty/wonky pair ?


Yes....and burn in with 1more app...its safer.

I think you got QC issue with your pair....get it replaced


----------



## surfacecube

Dont know if I can really call this "burn in" since I only did it with my own music (around 1k songs) but yeah, gonna see if Gearbest is accomodating


----------



## Bartig

surfacecube said:


> Hello guys, received my ES4 two weeks ago and burned em without a prior listening. Finished burning in yesterday and finally started to listen to them. I was hyped, until I noticed there's a huge hissing/whispering in the left ear that is not present on the right side. I know there's supposed to be some in the track to an extent, checked with my ZS5v1. Do I have a faulty/wonky pair ?


You’re not one of those people to burn in at 100% volume are you?


----------



## audionab

Bartig said:


> You’re not one of those people to burn in at 100% volume are you?


i hope you are wrong


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 20, 2018)

surfacecube said:


> Dont know if I can really call this "burn in" since I only did it with my own music



I call it burn it... that is how I burn things in... with my own music at normal listening levels.  I listen at low to moderate volume.  I always put in the iems, make sure I have a good seal and adjust the volume before leaving them to burn in.  I often use my Ruizu A50 DAP for this purpose as the battery lasts for 20 hours.  I charge it as needed during the burn in.  I do let it rest for a few minutes now and again.


----------



## surfacecube

Bartig said:


> You’re not one of those people to burn in at 100% volume are you?



No of course not, LMAO

I wish I did though, had a defective unit anyway 



mbwilson111 said:


> I call it burn it... that is how I burn things in... with my own music at normal listening levels.  I listen at low to moderate volume.  I always put in the iems, make sure I have a good seal and adjust the volume before leaving them to burn in.  I often use my Ruizu A50 DAP for this purpose as the battery lasts for 20 hours.  I charge it as needed during the burn in.  I do let it rest for a few minutes now and again.



That's what I did for 100 hours


----------



## masleev (Jun 20, 2018)

Hi guys, could anyone tell if the Tinaudio T2's cable would work fine with the KZ ED16? I am planning to buy both of these, and was thinking whether I'd need to buy the upgraded cable for the KZs or would the T2's cable be compatible.

Thank you.


----------



## HungryPanda

masleev said:


> Hi guys, could anyone tell if the Tinaudio T2's cable would work fine with the KZ ED16? I am playing to buy both of these, and was thinking whether I'd need to buy the upgraded cable for the KZs or would the T2's cable be compatible.
> 
> Thank you.


In a word, NO


----------



## Slater

masleev said:


> Hi guys, could anyone tell if the Tinaudio T2's cable would work fine with the KZ ED16? I am playing to buy both of these, and was thinking whether I'd need to buy the upgraded cable for the KZs or would the T2's cable be compatible.
> 
> Thank you.



Nope, totally different cables:

KZ and TRN cables are 0.75mm 2-pin cables.
Tin Audio T2 uses MMCX cable.
Don't feel like you HAVE to buy the upgraded KZ cables. The stock cables work perfectly fine in most cases.

Most people buy the various upgrade KZ cables because of other reasons - some are different colors, some of them can be converted to balanced by soldering on a new plug, less microphonics, etc.

In fact, some people WANT the stock cables, because it is the only way to get a mic/control cable with the 2-pin KZs. None of the KZ upgrade cables come with a mic/controls.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Slater said:


> None of the KZ upgrade cables come with a mic/controls.



Which just seems so silly to me.  Wonder why.


----------



## masleev

Thanks for the replies guys, and could you tell whether $35 and $18 are decent asking prices for the t2 and the ed16 respectively, or should I wait for the prices to drop?

Thank you.


----------



## CYoung234

masleev said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, and could you tell whether $35 and $18 are decent asking prices for the t2 and the ed16 respectively, or should I wait for the prices to drop?
> 
> Thank you.


Actually, those are very good prices. The T2 rarely drops this low, so jump on it! Also, $18 is a very good price for the ED16. I paid more than that for the one I ordered, but it is with mic...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

JonnyM said:


> https://audiobudget.com/product/KZ/ED16
> 
> Audiobudget just posted his ED16 review.


I always wonder what headphones he uses on a daily basis. I wish he would let it slip out... since the Zircon is no longer a favorite.


----------



## SHAMuuu

this is one funny review


anyone have such issues with fit where they JUST GAVE UP on these?

i think maybe he should have gotten some foamies, but is there cable issue with it pooping out?


----------



## Slater (Jun 20, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I always wonder what headphones he uses on a daily basis. I wish he would let it slip out... since the Zircon is no longer a favorite.



He probably changes it up, like most of us who have loads to pick from.

I try to switch out my ‘daily driver’ on at least a weekly basis.

I find when I do that, I discover new or subtle things about the IEM that I might have missed the 1st time/OOTB. And some that I initially disliked I find aren’t all that bad when I rotate through them later (or they are worse than I remember).

Perhaps some just improve as they get more music hours racked up due to burn in.


----------



## HungryPanda

Variety is the spice of life


----------



## neueziel (Jun 20, 2018)

I


zazaboy said:


> @neueziel
> 
> which tips and eq are you using .. I am interested





dhruvmeena96 said:


> Ask him, which IEM did he compared which costs 1000$.
> 
> I think I can compare ES4 with some expensive IEM but not that expensive....





zazaboy said:


> yeah the funny thing is how can kz zs6 be good then some other 1k iems..  I cant imagine that really.. or the 1k iems are overpriced or kz zs6 is actually a gem and I dont know it lol.. btw I have kz zs6 too





crinacle said:


> I too, am curious as to what "$1000 IEMs" the ZS6 supposedly beats.





dhruvmeena96 said:


> Same here bro....I think its time to update your IEM list and put KZ ZS6 there lol
> 
> "S" class
> 
> Rofl



I'm using Comply foam tips.  I enjoyed my listening experience more than I did with IEMs from 64 audio.  The ZS6 to me are more engaging, have better bass response and have a sound signature that I prefer.  I have also owned Campfire Vegas and have listened to many of Campfire's IEMs which I believe are a great value compared to some of other TOTL IEMs.


----------



## Strat Rider (Jun 21, 2018)

Deleted!


----------



## crinacle (Jun 21, 2018)

.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 21, 2018)

neueziel said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you the guy who made comparison video between 64audio U6 and KZ ZS6....

OK...just wait my friend...I also think cheaper 64audio are crap but a disagree with campfire making good iem for 1000$....its only Andromeda, comet and Atlas they got right per audio field standard and technical level which you can notice by your ears...other are weird in either imaging or harmonic details(Vega I am seeing you)....Polaris was also good as the Andromeda junior but had elliptical stage...
I myself have u18t (Tzar) with m15 module...and I have heard 64udio for a long time...

KZ ZS6 can be engaging(believe you), better bass response(sceptical as 64audio makes up with sheer amount of BA numbers to get the dynamic bass)....

I think you prefer sharp response(out of control cymbal harmonics) or I would say energetic response.

Try pairing your 64audio with better source and listen to Beethoven symphony no.5 and then listen KZ ZS6.

Or listen to exotic by priyanka chopra ft. Pitbull

64audio will simply give you cleaner mids(no bleed) and better depth with softer cymbals and more relaxed compared to zs6 but detail and speed is I can make sure 100x times better

KZ ZS6 upgrade on big budget is hyla ce5(same signature but done better)


----------



## neueziel (Jun 21, 2018)

crinacle said:


> .





dhruvmeena96 said:


> Are you the guy who made comparison video between 64audio U6 and KZ ZS6....
> 
> OK...just wait my friend...I also think cheaper 64audio are crap but a disagree with campfire making good iem for 1000$....its only Andromeda, comet and Atlas they got right per audio field standard and technical level which you can notice by your ears...other are weird in either imaging or harmonic details(Vega I am seeing you)....Polaris was also good as the Andromeda junior but had elliptical stage...
> I myself have u18t (Tzar) with m15 module...and I have heard 64udio for a long time...
> ...



I listened to 64 Audio at the Canjam booth this year and really could not get into them at all.  They felt very flat and not fun.  I was ready to purchase the Comet before the show but they did not do anything for me either.  The Atlas were very nice but the bass was close to being overwhelming but I much prefer it to the Comet and close to being indifferent between the Vega and Atlas.  You are right in that I enjoy a more energetic response and shy away from a flat/neutral sound signature.  Technical superiority, however defined, does not necessarily mean more enjoyment.  I would say that with price not being a consideration I would gladly take the ZS6 over the 64 audio IEMS. I acknowledge that there are flaws to the ZS6, some of the issues can partially be mitigated with different tips, however they do more right than not, especially considering price.  The Hylas look interesting, too bad it appears to be limited to 200 pieces.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 21, 2018)

neueziel said:


> I listened to 64 Audio at the Canjam booth this year and really could not get into them at all.  They felt very flat and not fun.  I was ready to purchase the Comet before the show but they did not do anything for me either.  The Atlas were very nice but the bass was close to being overwhelming but I much prefer it to the Comet and close to being indifferent between the Vega and Atlas.  You are right in that I enjoy a more energetic response and shy away from a flat/neutral sound signature.  Technical superiority, however defined, does not necessarily mean more enjoyment.  I would say that with price not being a consideration I would gladly take the ZS6 over the 64 audio IEMS. I acknowledge that there are flaws to the ZS6, some of the issues can partially be mitigated with different tips, however they do more right than not, especially considering price.  The Hylas look interesting, too bad it appears to be limited to 200 pieces.


I said it is more enjoying but that doesn't means it do better my friend.. Their is something we call fundamental detail which starts from 98.2Hz and ends at 1.12kHz, after that is harmonic detail(which shapes the harmonics of instrument)

KZ may be better as harmonics enjoyment are boosted and is enjoyable but mind that it bleeds and is sharp.

That's why I said, go try hyla ce5....why...because they are similar in tuning.

You compare to different SQ which are catered for different purposes....

Hyla CE5 vs KZ ZS6 and then you will understand what you should compare too..

You can say etymotic er4sr is bad compared to KZ ZS6, but that will not only not make sense, but you will be laughed upon...because ety are made for neutrality and you compare a V shape iem to them which doesn't even have proper channel balancing, no field calibration...

Well ety can sound soulless to you but are great for critical monitoring..

Hope this helps....actually I started typing earlier than your post....but you posted your comment so I have to edit it


----------



## s8grave

Why it is so hard for some people to understand that if someone likes 30$ earbuds more than 3000$ earbuds - it is NORMAL. It is not hearing damage or lack of listening experience, it is personal tastes in sound.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

s8grave said:


> Why it is so hard for some people to understand that if someone likes 30$ earbuds more than 3000$ earbuds - it is NORMAL. It is not hearing damage or lack of listening experience, it is personal tastes in sound.


$3,000 earbuds? Lol. Rip off. We're pushing it at $50...


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jun 21, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> $3,000 earbuds? Lol. Rip off. We're pushing it at $50...


I have Final E4000.....took it back from my evil sis...she his it somewhere in her closet...

I got my stuff back


And I love it

Its better than campfire(except Andromeda) and many other iem..

That black magic(music comes and goes into darkness) so soundstage seems to be so big

Hope KZ makes something like this in future...

They are all balant and up forward. . .

We need euphoric sound

KZ ZS10 vs final e2000 any day final audio is winner


----------



## kimi7

Hello everyone, after using the KZ ATE for three years I decided to get the KZ ES4. I wanted to try an hybrid iem and I think the ES4 looks great with the separator circuitry. Will I notice a big difference in sound compared to the ATE? Thanks!


----------



## dhruvmeena96

kimi7 said:


> Hello everyone, after using the KZ ATE for three years I decided to get the KZ ES4. I wanted to try an hybrid iem and I think the ES4 looks great with the separator circuitry. Will I notice a big difference in sound compared to the ATE? Thanks!


Well that is a 4gen difference.


Ate gen
ZST gen
ZS6/ZSR gen
Circuit board gen

ES4 bass is way fast and clean and treble is sparkly bright with right balance for mids


----------



## psygeist

zazaboy said:


> yeah the funny thing is how can kz zs6 be good then some other 1k iems..  I cant imagine that really.. or the 1k iems are overpriced or kz zs6 is actually a gem and I dont know it lol.. btw I have kz zs6 too



I certainly dont listen to UM Miracle or UM Merlin so often now compared to ES4  It is just much more fun to listen to. And I don't listen to classical music anymore (except Pachelbel's canon in D)


----------



## neueziel

s8grave said:


> Why it is so hard for some people to understand that if someone likes 30$ earbuds more than 3000$ earbuds - it is NORMAL. It is not hearing damage or lack of listening experience, it is personal tastes in sound.



I'm with you.  User preferences are highly subjective.  Although I would say that it makes it easier to identify what you like and don't like once you've listened to a number of different headphones/IEMs as it broadens your perspective.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> $3,000 earbuds? Lol. Rip off. We're pushing it at $50...



I'd say it was an eye opening experience.  It will be hard for me to justify spending big $ on IEMs now.  Although finding the right ones will probably be like finding a needle in a haystack.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

neueziel said:


> I'm with you.  User preferences are highly subjective.  Although I would say that it makes it easier to identify what you like and don't like once you've listened to a number of different headphones/IEMs as it broadens your perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say it was an eye opening experience.  It will be hard for me to justify spending big $ on IEMs now.  Although finding the right ones will probably be like finding a needle in a haystack.


Love a cheaper one, find its alternative on higher price(same SQ) and then you will feel justified...

Well law of diminishing return does play, but I think after 500$


----------



## monitoringsound70

Well 2 things. 
First of all pulled the trigger on a pair of ED12 simply because they were on offer. 
Yeah I know they're not regarded well here but surprisingly I'm chuffed with them. 
They are brilliant for a vocalist, nice mids. And fab for rock.  
Actually these really remind me of the Se420 with a bit more bass. Very similar to me. So very happy. 

Secondly just ordered a pair of the ES4 in blue. Arriving tomorrow.....Can't wait


----------



## kaiteck (Jun 21, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Love a cheaper one, find its alternative on higher price(same SQ) and then you will feel justified...
> 
> Well law of diminishing return does play, but I think after 500$



or buy iems that has multiple signature like lz a4 or flac 8s

On a side note, I've bought zs10 and sold it immediately. While it sounds good, it sounds bad at the same time. I cant find the right word to describe zs10 but it's a bad and confusing iem. Even kz ate I would prefer it.


----------



## chickenmoon

kaiteck said:


> or buy iems that has multiple signature like lz a4 or flac 8s



I thought so too and then got very disappointed  with the FLC8S. Regardless of filters used it's got a significant dip at 5khz which is something I have since discovered I don't like at all. It's not like you can fully  sculpt the sound as with an EQ with those kind of IEMs, they've still got a "base signature" which you like or not.


----------



## kaiteck

chickenmoon said:


> I thought so too and then got very disappointed  with the FLC8S. Regardless of filters used it's got a significant dip at 5khz which is something I have since discovered I don't like at all. It's not like you can fully  sculpt the sound as with an EQ with those kind of IEMs, they've still got a "base signature" which you like or not.



O didnt know abt that since i dont own flc8s. A dip in 5khz is definitely not in my wishlist.


----------



## kaiteck

I guess it's best one have to check frequency response curve graph to check whether it suit their own taste


----------



## Slater (Jun 21, 2018)

chickenmoon said:


> I thought so too and then got very disappointed  with the FLC8S. Regardless of filters used it's got a significant dip at 5khz which is something I have since discovered I don't like at all. It's not like you can fully  sculpt the sound as with an EQ with those kind of IEMs, they've still got a "base signature" which you like or not.



So true.

Different tips (and filters on specific earphones) usually only affect specific frequencies a couple of dBs up or down. But it’s nowhere near the granular control of EQ.

EQ gets such a bad rap, like it’s some sort of evil monster that will totally destroy sonic qualities and also eat all of your leftovers while you are away at work.

A lot of that fear is unjustified, or misunderstood ideas taken out of context. I’ve known people that say “EQ is bad”, yet listen to their music via streaming Spotify to a phone. C’mon, get real.


----------



## B9Scrambler

ED15 update. I know, this thing is old news. It's been out for months now. That's a decade in the world of KZ, haha.

I tend to keep my thoughts on burn in, or break in, or whatever you want to call it to myself, but the ED15 is a great example of why you hold off on dropping early thoughts (even with initial impressions warnings, subject to change, etc.). A few weeks back I a/b'ed another Head-fi'ers ED15 with my own and it exhibited significantly less sibilance. Was a much nicer listen, being that it wasn't the sizzling cesspool of sibilance mine was. The only difference between the two was that his had a lot more play time. So, for the last few weeks the ED15 has been on and off the burner. Popped em in today and took a listen to The Crystal Method's "Grace ft. LeAnn Rimes" which is painful to listen to at the best of times. While sibilance was still there, it was nowhere near as bad as before. Went back to a few of the tracks I suggested to @Otto Motor (Aesop Rock - Blood Sandwich / Schiller - Under My Skin (feat. Kim Sanders) / Dillon Francis - We The Funk  / Lenzman - Open Page (Feat. Riya) / BT - The Great Escape (feat. Caroline Lavelle) / De La Soul - Attack of the Stet) back in April and they all sounded much better too. Still a little hot on Blood Sandwich, but plenty listenable still.

Conclusion? The ED15 has AMAZING bass with lots of texture and detail, but with some spice in the treble and mids. Not for the treble sensitive, but should be a safe buy for the rest that want something entertaining. Build is amazing too. Might go ahead with a proper review on these now.


----------



## neueziel

Wow I don’t really believe in burn in but I feel that the ZS6 highs have toned down a bit. But it could also mean that I’ve gotten use to the sound. I have added new bee silicon tips to the rotation.


----------



## B9Scrambler

neueziel said:


> Wow I don’t really believe in burn in but I feel that the ZS6 highs have toned down a bit. But it could also mean that I’ve gotten use to the sound. I have added new bee silicon tips to the rotation.



I'm a skeptic of it but I've had some experiences in the past, and most recently with the ED15, that have kept me on the fence and open to the idea. *shrug*


----------



## Aparker2005

Would it be worth selling my es3 and zsr for the zs6? Not a fan of the look but with how much everyone raves on them, I'm curious. 

Zs10 are going nowhere. Love them.


----------



## alex5908

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Hyla CE5 vs KZ ZS6 and then you will understand what you should compare too..


I just don't get it. How can you compare those earphones with the price difference of +30 times?! It's the same as to compare a bus to a rocket. They both move.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

For god sake bro read the thrrad...

He started comparing 1000$ stuff with 50$ stuff..

What I said is to compare same signature and then he will get to know what they did in the engineering..

He compared neutral expensive iem to v shape 50$ iem and preferred 50$....because the earlier one sounded lifeless to him...

I said to compare same signature on different price tag and then make a comparison




alex5908 said:


> I just don't get it. How can you compare those earphones with the price difference of +30 times?! It's the same as to compare a bus to a rocket. They both move.


----------



## C2thew (Jun 21, 2018)

Aparker2005 said:


> Would it be worth selling my es3 and zsr for the zs6? Not a fan of the look but with how much everyone raves on them, I'm curious.
> 
> Zs10 are going nowhere. Love them.



Nah. it wouldn't be worth selling the es3 and zsr for the zs6 (imo)  As an owner of the ZS6 and ZS10... The ZS10 gets way more use then the ZS6.  The ZS6 is just too sibilant to listen to for fun.  You're paying for the metal look on the ZS6 when the ZSR seems to deliver better bass response with less fatigue in the highs compared to the ZS6.

That being said: The ZS3 is my daily exercise IEM and the ZS10 is what I use to listen to while working.


some lindsay sterling


2 hours of drum & bass


holy crap. whoever recommended this song as a test for your ears.... this is painful to listen to.... especially at 1:33  shudders*  that sound is so annoying


----------



## B9Scrambler

C2thew said:


> holy crap. whoever recommended this song as a test for your ears.... this is painful to listen to.... especially at 1:33  shudders*  that sound is so annoying




You're welcome. Or sorry? Both, yeah, both.


----------



## Zerohour88

neueziel said:


> Wow I don’t really believe in burn in but I feel that the ZS6 highs have toned down a bit. But it could also mean that I’ve gotten use to the sound. I have added new bee silicon tips to the rotation.



not gonna say much on the topic since its contentious, but its not a catch-all for all earphones. Some need it, some don't. I remember the Dita Answer needing 200+ hour of burn-in before settling (some reviewer noted the difference between burned-in and OOTB pairs). Not to mention the Truth cable made by VDH (on the Answer Truth) significantly changing the sound sig.


----------



## Danfish98

I received my ES4 order yesterday and I'm very surprised at all the positive reviews over the zs10.  To me the sound signatures are similar but mids on the es4 are a bit veiled/muddy sounding. I like the amount of bass and treble with the es4 but the highs on the zs10 have a lot more air and detail. I'd prefer they be a bit less recessed but the separation and detail are fantastic. I occasionally hear the upper mids of the zs10 get a bit wonky like others have mentioned but I'll take that over the muddiness present with the es4.


----------



## Strat Rider

@Slater and all, apologies for the previous cryptic response regarding KZ replacement cable with Microphone . (I fell on my head last week in a terrible motorcycle accident), but it wasn't a Unicorn, that I saw, the cable actually does exist on AE.

_Quoted from Audio store_ "Newest KZ ZS3/ZS6/ZST/ZSR/ZS10 Dedicated Cable 0.75mm 2-Pin Upgraded Cable Replace Cable 2 PIN Upgrade Cable Ues For KZ With MIC"


----------



## Slater (Jun 21, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> @Slater and all, apologies for the previous cryptic response regarding KZ replacement cable with Microphone . (I fell on my head last week in a terrible motorcycle accident), but it wasn't a Unicorn, that I saw, the cable actually does exist on AE.
> 
> _Quoted from Audio store_ "Newest KZ ZS3/ZS6/ZST/ZSR/ZS10 Dedicated Cable 0.75mm 2-Pin Upgraded Cable Replace Cable 2 PIN Upgrade Cable Ues For KZ With MIC"



Hope you recover quickly and have no lasting ill effects 

I just saw those cables. It looks like they’re separately selling the ‘upgrade’ mic cable that comes stock with some of the newer KZs. Smart move on KZs part.

A few sellers are selling the iron grey upgrade cables (with no mic and the straight end for ZS5/ZS6) for $2.65! I bought some just to have on hand for replacing defective IEM/earbud cables (or making my own cables for full-size dual entry headphones like the 1More H1707). Just cut off the 2-pin ends and they’re ready to go! That’s a super price!


----------



## Bartig

kimi7 said:


> Hello everyone, after using the KZ ATE for three years I decided to get the KZ ES4. I wanted to try an hybrid iem and I think the ES4 looks great with the separator circuitry. Will I notice a big difference in sound compared to the ATE? Thanks!


Yes, you will notice a difference indeed. The ES4 has fuller mids and more treble. The sound is somewhat fuller than on the KZ ATE. The good thing is it's just as enjoyable. Quite a good upgrade in the line of the ATE itself actually.


----------



## bhazard

Got the ES4 the other day. It's lacking a bit in clarity and resolution, but for the $16 or so I paid for it, they are still quite nice. This is with only an hour of listening and no EQ. Seems midbass can be cut just a touch to really bring things forward.


----------



## HungryPanda

I bought these for my projects: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...r-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone/32794753457.html


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I bought these for my projects: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...r-Headset-Wire-DIY-Headphone/32794753457.html



Have you measured the impedance by any chance?

I’ve been unhappy on a few ‘mystery’ cables in the past. They had ridiculously high impedance, and degraded the sound of the gear I swapped the cables on.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'll measure them in a few minutes, too busy enjoying this album I'm listening too


----------



## HungryPanda (Jun 21, 2018)

Ok measured the cable less than 1 ohm


----------



## Superluc

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Same here bro....I think its time to update your IEM list and put KZ ZS6 there lol
> 
> "S" class
> 
> Rofl


S as Sibilance ? S Class ++


----------



## HungryPanda

The nicest thing about these cables as I got them to recable some earbuds is the inner wires are coloured red and blue so it is easy to see which wire is which


----------



## bhazard

4+ years later, why do KZ releases still excite me? They never really released a high end challenging IEM, but man did they ever flip the budget value switch. I don't even follow other brands much anymore.

After being let down by $200+ Chinese IEMs, I'm going to live in KZ land for a bit unless something game changing comes out.


----------



## Zerohour88

bhazard said:


> 4+ years later, why do KZ releases still excite me? They never really released a high end challenging IEM, but man did they ever flip the budget value switch. I don't even follow other brands much anymore.
> 
> After being let down by $200+ Chinese IEMs, I'm going to live in KZ land for a bit unless something game changing comes out.



that HK6 really burned you, I see. Sometimes hype doesn't work out for everyone, I guess. 200+ bux is quite a hard lesson though.

hence I'm waiting for the 10BA more than the 16 driver (unless the 16 driver is also full BA). Usually small DIY company starts with making single BA CIEM and then work their way up. KZ skipping a few steps, but its a start of something different, hopefully.


----------



## bhazard

Zerohour88 said:


> that HK6 really burned you, I see. Sometimes hype doesn't work out for everyone, I guess. 200+ bux is quite a hard lesson though.
> 
> hence I'm waiting for the 10BA more than the 16 driver (unless the 16 driver is also full BA). Usually small DIY company starts with making single BA CIEM and then work their way up. KZ skipping a few steps, but its a start of something different, hopefully.



They need to make a reference tuning first before they add more drivers. The ZS10 is too recessed for normal use. They nailed the budget end but still haven't figured out how to match high end yet.


----------



## Pronounta

Need some help by you guys:

My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.

One thing that I really look for in IEMs is clarity. I hate muddy sound/bass just as much as sharp highs which mask much of the subtle sounds that may exist in a song.

I prefer a slightly more natural sound signature as well. I don't really like exaggerated bass or treble, though generally I'd say I like it if there is some mid-range-dominance, but honestly, only if it isn't excessive.

I generally welcome it it if the IEMs have a bit more of a "fun" sound signature, but really only if it is within a range which can be considered not-too-far-off of natural.

Got any advice for me?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## teus

I bought the KZ ZS5, something went wrong while I was trying to order the ZS6. They're very good, but the hard sharp edges are a bit uncomfortable. Worst part is: the nozzles are straight, and the tips fall off all the time


----------



## Slater (Jun 21, 2018)

Pronounta said:


> Need some help by you guys:
> 
> My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.
> 
> ...



- Tin Audio T2
- BossHifi B3
- EMI CI-880 (a great IEM, but is pretty bright if you are super treble sensitive. Not sharp, just bright (and nowhere near ZS6 levels)


----------



## Slater (Jun 25, 2018)

Slater said:


> _OK, I got this all squared away with the seller. They are EDR1. They sent me a photo of the new style white box (that clearly says EDR1). If you buy the 5 pack, they simply remove them from the white boxes and put them in 1 larger box.
> 
> I bought qty 10, and the seller even threw in one of the new KZ Pelican-style ABS storage boxes, as I've been wanting one of those for a while now (which is worth $6 if you factor in shipping)!
> 
> ...



I have an update on this.

The 5-packs of EDR1 arrived today from the KZ Global Store (I actually got 2 5-packs).

They were nice enough to keep them all in the original factory sealed (and shrink-wrapped) KZ white box. All ready for gift giving woo hoo. If you are looking to introduce friends, family, or coworkers to the joys of ChiFi, this is a great way to do it. And for $2.60 each pair!

Also, I forget who was asking about the size of the clear KZ ABS storage case (the KZ Official Store was nice enough to include 1 of the cases for free 

Anyways, whoever it was wanted to see how big it was, if it could fit a ZS6, etc. Well, it is reeeeally small. It would be OK for any of the smaller IEMs, but it’s going to be a headache for stuff with huge bodies and memory wires (like ZS5, ZSR, ZS6, ZS10, etc).

I mean technically if you carefully wrap the wires juuust right, and cram it in with patience and efficiency, it is possible to get the bigger IEMs to fit.

So now that I’ve seen all of the KZ cases, I prefer the large black plastic KZ case. Sure, the plastic is a little thinner on the larger black case vs the indestructible pelican-like plastic on the small clear case, but it’s not like you’re going to be running either case over with a Humvee.

The black case is nice and roomy. You don’t have to remove the cables from the IEM, and you don’t even have to bend the memory wires. Just roll up the wire and lay it in the case however you want and you’re done. There’s even enough room that it prevents the metal bodies IEMs like the ZS6 from scratching one another (which is a problem on smaller more cramped cases).

Here's some comparison photos. The clear box is about 1.2 the volume of the black box. The clear box is roughly the same width, is half the length, and is a little thinner.





The ZS6 with 8-braid upgrade wire in each box:



A side view. You can see how the IEM is really piled into the small box to get it to all fit (and yes the lid does close all the way):


----------



## Pronounta

Slater said:


> - Tin Audio T2
> - BossHifi B3
> - EMI CI-880 (a great IEM, but is pretty bright if you are super treble sensitive. Not sharp, just bright (and nowhere near ZS6 levels)


Sorry, I forgot to mention - it'd be great if the IEMs have a bluetooth module, similar to how KZ sells them.

Of course I'm not limited to KZ and your recommendations look very nice, but I haven't been able to find bluetooth modules for them unfortunately.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dang. Them little cases are pretty small. I ordered 2 of them and some blue turbines about a month ago and still don't have them. I suppose that edr1 and ed4 will have some cases. hehe.


----------



## Slater

Pronounta said:


> Sorry, I forgot to mention - it'd be great if the IEMs have a bluetooth module, similar to how KZ sells them.
> 
> Of course I'm not limited to KZ and your recommendations look very nice, but I haven't been able to find bluetooth modules for them unfortunately.



TinAudio T2 uses MMCX. You can find Bluetooth MMCX cables on Aliexpress.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Dang. Them little cases are pretty small. I ordered 2 of them and some blue turbines about a month ago and still don't have them. I suppose that edr1 and ed4 will have some cases. hehe.



Yeah, the clear case is dinky that’s for sure.

All of the sellers charge high shipping prices on them as well for some reason. So by the time you add the shipping charges, they run $6-$10 depending on the seller. Not worth it IMO.

The EDR1, EDR2, ED4, ED9 etc fit great in the little KZ square EVA foam zippered cases (the ones with the fake carbon fiber finish on them). You can find them between $0.40-$1.00. There's even enough room for 2 IEMs in those cases (one under the netting on the lid), or misc stuff like spare tips or pigtails (lighting headphone adapters etc).

The zippered cases are perfect to slip into your pants or coat pocket without anyone noticing too. The bigger/thicker cases like I posted above look ridiculous in your pocket (ie "_is that an IEM case in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?_").


----------



## Strat Rider

Can someone tell me what is an ED-SE?

I finally received a pair of EDR1, and can say I am pretty impressed with that little driver. 

 I think KZ, should spend R&D $$ working on perfecting single DD sound sigs.

The only 3 I own are EDR1, EDR2, and atr, and I think they're on the right track with those.

@Slater thanks for the well wishes. 

I am alive, bike is totalled, left shoulder needs surgery, after 47 years riding in California, will have to hang up helmet for good.

The reason for my more than passing interest in small iem's is it hurts to much to properly fit molded hybrids. 

I fit mine usually by lifting hand over head, tugging opposite ear and getting a good seal.
Now with injured left arm strapped to my side, and having long hair that's not going to happen for quite awhile.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> Can someone tell me what is an ED-SE?
> 
> I finally received a pair of EDR1, and can say I am pretty impressed with that little driver.
> 
> ...



EDSE is ED Special Edition. It uses the same zinc alloy shell as the EDR1 but with a different driver. The EDR1 is superior to the EDSE.

I’m with you on the single drivers. I definitely in the camp that believes that you can have awesome sound without the use of BAs. It’s all in the driver and tuning. Dynamic-only IEMs like the Pioneer CH9T and ibasso IT01 run circles around many hybrids.

Since you are looking at wearing the piston style IEMs for the foreseeable future, see if you can track down the HDS3. It’s like a shrink down micro sized EDR2 shell. Very comfy and easy to insert and remove. It’s one of the more neutral sounding KZs, which is rare in their lineup. It’s one of my favorite KZs, and is like a diamond in the rough.

Wow, that bike stuff sounds heavy man. Good luck with the shoulder surgery!


----------



## sino8r

teus said:


> I bought the KZ ZS5, something went wrong while I was trying to order the ZS6. They're very good, but the hard sharp edges are a bit uncomfortable. Worst part is: the nozzles are straight, and the tips fall off all the time



You can try the foam tips. They help hold a bit better. You really have to manipulate the ZS6s to get them to fit. Quite a bit of turning and shoving. That's exactly why I use my ZSAs now mostly. They're a bit smaller, fit perfectly, sound around 80 percent or so as good as the ZS6s. I love mine!


----------



## Slater

teus said:


> I bought the KZ ZS5, something went wrong while I was trying to order the ZS6. They're very good, but the hard sharp edges are a bit uncomfortable. Worst part is: the nozzles are straight, and the tips fall off all the time



1 word - hairspray

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2207#post-14286781
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2148#post-14234743


----------



## audionab

Pronounta said:


> Sorry, I forgot to mention - it'd be great if the IEMs have a bluetooth module, similar to how KZ sells them.
> 
> Of course I'm not limited to KZ and your recommendations look very nice, but I haven't been able to find bluetooth modules for them unfortunately.


see kz ed16 with TRN BT3 cable


----------



## Slater

audionab said:


> see kz ed16 with TRN BT3 cable




ED16 is neutral?


----------



## teus

sino8r said:


> You can try the foam tips. They help hold a bit better. You really have to manipulate the ZS6s to get them to fit. Quite a bit of turning and shoving. That's exactly why I use my ZSAs now mostly. They're a bit smaller, fit perfectly, sound around 80 percent or so as good as the ZS6s. I love mine!


ah, my foam tips are still unused and sitting in the plastic bag. I'll try those. I've used foam tips before, but those would tear quickly, or be rubbish. 
I'm considering the ZSR's, since the edges are smooth and rounded. I'm really enthousiastic about IEM's that can only be worn over the ear. SO much better. 


Slater said:


> 1 word - hairspray
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2207#post-14286781
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2148#post-14234743


thanks a lot, sounds interesting. I'll try it. I'm curious how much effort it needs to remove them anyway.


----------



## audionab

Slater said:


> ED16 is neutral?


no but it is somewhat balanced and can be easily equalized for neutrality and costs much less than tinaudio t2
the trn cable itself costs 21$ which would dent harder his wallet with combo of t2 ( MMCX version of cable available on Aliexpress)


----------



## audionab

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response

I wanna discuss harman target for in-ears headphones 
i see 
1) a good sub bass boost and lowered upper mid bass to reduce mid bass bleed and muddiness which is good
2) a high peak at 3khz which i dont understand (for better harmonics maybe)
3) a relatively high 8khz need explanation for that (better cymbals maybe)
4) a sharp rolloff at 16khz for in ears ( why not 20khz?)

i was looking for one ideal allround equalization for my KZ ES4 and Rose North Forest separately so i came across this article posted here in some thread i dont remember


----------



## vladstef

audionab said:


> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response
> 
> I wanna discuss harman target for in-ears headphones
> i see
> ...



I think that the sub boost is a bit too much (remember, they are trying to find flat response) but everything else I agree with. Without a proper boost of 8-10dB starting at 1K and peaking at 3K voices become dark and not clear enough. Sharp rolloff in the end is irrelevant, there is almost no information above 15K meaning that you can do pretty much whatever you want here with frequency response without damaging anything.
Since we are on the KZ topic, I'd say that pretty much all of the hybrid KZs have a boosted 2K, that is, they even peak at 2K in some instances which is very low actually (in my experience, it's better to peak later than 3K then much earlier), then there is a huge dip where treble information is lost and a not ideal peak around 10K.


----------



## Zerohour88

bhazard said:


> They need to make a reference tuning first before they add more drivers. The ZS10 is too recessed for normal use. They nailed the budget end but still haven't figured out how to match high end yet.



High-end to me is the $1k range, that's too big a jump to match. Some chi-fi are only starting to make the leap to mid-end, like the IT04 and to some extent the newly announced FH5. Seeing as how the LZ BD didn't really make a large splash despite the SQ speaks volume. Mind share of more established brands is hard to beat.

An all BA model from KZ interests me in that its a sensible way to cheaply tune an IEM rather than design a mind-blowing DD or BA tech.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

vladstef said:


> I think that the sub boost is a bit too much (remember, they are trying to find flat response) but everything else I agree with. Without a proper boost of 8-10dB starting at 1K and peaking at 3K voices become dark and not clear enough. Sharp rolloff in the end is irrelevant, there is almost no information above 15K meaning that you can do pretty much whatever you want here with frequency response without damaging anything.
> Since we are on the KZ topic, I'd say that pretty much all of the hybrid KZs have a boosted 2K, that is, they even peak at 2K in some instances which is very low actually (in my experience, it's better to peak later than 3K then much earlier), then there is a huge dip where treble information is lost and a not ideal peak around 10K.


I think there is info above 15khz...I have to boost 16kHz to a point where I hear a certain ring....

And it has been notified on hypersonic paper in Japan, that blind test showed that boosted high frequency is indeed noticeable.

But you have to boost it to audible level or drop other frequency. It does increase some info about sound. Well try on neutralizer and see yourself...it does make sound somewhat properly airy...

But regarding fundamental info and harmonic info, high frequency above 14kHz does not effect(it just effect the overall perceiving of sound)

Bass below 20Hz is felt rather than heard and something above 15kHz is also the same. You can feel the proper imaging.

Well for that you also need high bit rate and frequency file

So that when audio engineer and producer makes the sound of 20kHz and 17kHz at same level...you see a dip at
(20-17=3khz) but why don't we notice it....simple because the roll of treble can't make dB effect on 3kHz that much.(some iem maker boost 2kHz or 3kHz for that reason also).

But when high freq is in consideration...they add unwanted high freq tone data to music because then they can transfer the freq data to non audible region.

So let's take 40kHz played with 17kHz

40-17=23

Dip will occur on 23kHz...which will not effect our audible range.

So high res and other things are not bull...its just that you need a higher data file with supported DAC to actually get full effect out of High red earphone.


Why I told to boost 16kHz, because it will boost all other frequency nearby it, getting the roll of range out 20kHz range somewhat and get you a good sound effect.


It may sound a little confusing but bare with it....

Ask me about this thing on PM if you want...

I don't wanna spoil this thread with science

LoL


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 22, 2018)

Pronounta said:


> Need some help by you guys:
> 
> My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.
> 
> ...


If you want midrange dominance, stay the hell away from KZ. They haven't made a single hybrid without at least somewhat recessed mids. You would like the TinAudio T2.

Edit: Going to point out that "fun" signature typically means a slightly boosted mid-bass and treble. Most KZs do fit into this. However, in the prior paragraph you said you were not looking for all those things. If you are, most would agree that KZ ES4 and ED16 are the best options right now.


----------



## eruditass (Jun 22, 2018)

audionab said:


> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response
> 
> I wanna discuss harman target for in-ears headphones
> i see
> ...



2 and 4 are mostly from loudspeakers equalized to flat in a free-field, probably the effects of ear/pinna resonances.  1 is a listener preference on headphones. Here's a plot of the original harman curve vs flat loudspeakers.  3 is new from their in-ears test and it's not clear if it's from equalized loudspeakers or preference.  If anyone can grab those AES articles...


----------



## loomisjohnson

Pronounta said:


> Need some help by you guys:
> 
> My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.
> 
> ...


for "natural" i'd suggest either the ed9 or the ed1r--other kzs may have more going on sonically, but sound more colored and/or emphasized at both ends. my other dark horse pick would be the ed10, which has vg overall clarity.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

DoomzDayz said:


> 2 and 4 are mostly from loudspeakers equalized to flat in a free-field, probably the effects of ear/pinna resonances.  1 is a listener preference on headphones. Here's a plot of the original harman curve vs flat loudspeakers.  3 is new from their in-ears test and it's not clear if it's from equalized loudspeakers or preference.  If anyone can grab those AES articles...


I wonder if these revisions have anything to do with equal-loudness curves. The added boosts in bass and treble would make sense if people use IEMs to listen at a lower level than they would listen through speakers. I can't speak for others but I believe this is true for me.


----------



## Adide

I've decided to put aside for a while this "no eq" principle of mine and tried to fix the very technically potent but with tonal flaws (for me at least) zs10.

I'm using the settings below and I like very much how it turned out:
- mids more forward due to hot upper mids/lower trebble (2-4 KHz spike) being dialed down;
- instruments sound natural now due to upper treble roll-off restored;
- while at it I've also dialed down mid bass for a bit - also helps bringing mids forward;
- details, layering, soundstage, separation at best now that it sounds correct (again, for me) sonically.

Maybe other people upset with zs10 flaws might try this and realise how very good these should have sounded if properly tuned in the first place.
No reason not to keep them now I think.

PS: wide bores used to maximize mids and treble exposure.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 22, 2018)

Pronounta said:


> Need some help by you guys:
> 
> My ZS3 broke so now I'm looking for a replacement. KZ apparently made a lot of new IEMs so I'm just curious about what they have to offer now.
> 
> ...



KZ Acoustics often overlooked middle-child.

The ATR



 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews



> Sorry, I forgot to mention - it'd be great if the IEMs have a bluetooth module, similar to how KZ sells them.
> 
> Of course I'm not limited to KZ and your recommendations look very nice, but I haven't been able to find bluetooth modules for them unfortunately.



If you'd like Bluetooth capability perhaps you'd be better off requesting more feedback on the TRN V20 with Bluetooth cable.

All in your at $50+/-.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

teus said:


> thanks a lot, sounds interesting. I'll try it. I'm curious how much effort it needs to remove them anyway.



You mean how much effort is takes to remove them after you use the hairspray method? Not much.

It’s not like the hairspray is going to be like superglue or anything that strong. The tips just stay on better with hairspray than without it.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

Adide said:


> I've decided to put aside for a while this "no eq" principle of mine and tried to fix the very technically potent but with tonal flaws (for me at least) zs10.
> 
> I'm using the settings below and I like very much how it turned out:
> - mids more forward due to hot upper mids/lower trebble (2-4 KHz spike) being dialed down;
> ...



See, here’s a perfect example of how a simple EQ tweak can turn a frown upside down, saving stuff that would otherwise be destined for the ‘drawer of forgotten gear’.

Kudos to you for giving EQ a chance sir. It is not the evil it has been portrayed to be.


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> EDSE is ED Special Edition. It uses the same zinc alloy shell as the EDR1 but with a different driver. The EDR1 is superior to the EDSE.
> 
> I’m with you on the single drivers. I definitely in the camp that believes that you can have awesome sound without the use of BAs. It’s all in the driver and tuning. Dynamic-only IEMs like the Pioneer CH9T and ibasso IT01 run circles around many hybrids.
> 
> ...



Thanks again @Slater 

OK, this is interesting, I bought, from the KZ official store 2ea EDSE. I was sent EDR2's instead. I now have 7 EDR2's and 1 EDR1.
I have been pursuing the EDR1 for a while now, but it feels more like I'm playing a slot machine in Las Vegas.

I am enjoying the EDR1 and definitely going to look into the HDS3, (I love a challenge). 
Bright side??? Christmas gift giving got a lot easier. EDR2's for everyone already shopped for my music liking friends.


----------



## HungryPanda

Hairspray is a good tip but also destroys the planet. Don't get me started on plastic.....


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Hairspray is a good tip but also destroys the planet. Don't get me started on plastic.....



You mean plain old non-aerosol hairspray? You only use a drop or 2 on the end of a qtip. Isn’t hairspray like 95% alcohol? I didn’t know the non-aerosol kind was bad for the environment.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> You mean plain old non-aerosol hairspray? You only use a drop or 2 on the end of a qtip. Isn’t hairspray like 95% alcohol? I didn’t know the non-aerosol kind was bad for the environment.



Do you mean hair gel?   The word "spray" suggests aerosol to me... which I do not want in my air or in my lungs.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you mean hair gel?   The word "spray" suggests aerosol to me... which I do not want in my air or in my lungs.



Maybe they call it something else in other countries. I’ve always heard it referred to as “hair spray”.

It’s a liquid in a spray bottle. It has a pump top, and it comes out in a fine mist when you push down on the little sprayer/spritzer. It’s used to fix your hair into a style. It’s mostly alcohol, with some trace ingredients that hold your hair style once the alcohol evaporates.

It looks like this:




For the eartip trick, you just unscrew the spray top and moisten the end of a qtip (ie cotton swab) in the hairspray liquid.

I don’t understand how it’s bad for the environment when it’s ok to spray on your hair.

Also, you don’t breathe it in any more than you breathe in other sprays such as the blue Windex glass cleaner (that also have a pump/spritz sprayer on top). Or the million other products people use with pump spray tops (cleaners, olive oil spritzers, etc).


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Maybe they call it something else in other countries. I’ve always heard it referred to as “hair spray”.
> 
> It’s a liquid in a spray bottle. It has a pump top, and it comes out in a fine mist when you push down on the little sprayer/spritzer. It’s used to fix your hair into a style. It’s mostly alcohol, with some trace ingredients that hold your hair style once the alcohol evaporates.
> 
> ...



I was not thinking pump spray but I have to admit... I hate all of it.  I am sensitive to chemical and perfume smells.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I was not thinking pump spray but I have to admit... I hate all of it.  I am sensitive to chemical and perfume smells.



Sure, I can understand that.

I’m sure there’s probably other ways to keep the tips from falling off the ZS5 and ZS6 for those that are very sensitive to chemicals. I was just sharing 1 trick that works.

I know some people have also used glue to hold the tips on. But then again that’s chemicals too (and smell from the glue fumes).

I guess it depends on how big of a problem the tips falling off are for people. I personally have never had any problems with any tips falling off the ZS5 or ZS6.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Sure, I can understand that.
> 
> I’m sure there’s probably other ways to keep the tips from falling off the ZS5 and ZS6 for those that are very sensitive to chemicals.



Mine have never fallen off.  I don't have the ZS5 but I do have the ZS6 among others.


----------



## monitoringsound70 (Jun 22, 2018)

Just came home to my Cyan Blue ES4 waiting for me  about an hour ago and am listening to them at the moment.
Using large Starline tips I've got a pretty good seal and isolation is pretty good.
The brown cable is also nice with no microphonics whatsoever 

Sound wise I was expecting a nice upgrade from my ES3. But these are nothing like them at all.
The bass is a wee bit muddled and murky, Not muddy though just a bit over the place.
Mids are very nasal at the moment, like someone is singing with a cold. Very upfront and in your face.....nearly matching my ED12 actually but more nasal and very congested.
My biggest complaint at the moment though is the quite wonderful dancing treble on my ES3 has gone and I'm hearing a very un detailed and lost top end.
Actually the detail retrieval is actually much worse in general throughout the sound.
So at the moment I'm a tad disappointed but I'm gonna give them the evening and see if they get any better.
But at the moment they are certainly not the upgrade from the 3


----------



## mbwilson111

monitoringsound70 said:


> Just came home to my Cyan Blue ES4 waiting for me  about an hour ago and am listening to them at the moment.
> Using large Starline tips I've got a pretty good seal and isolation is pretty good.
> The brown cable is also nice with no microphonics whatsoever
> 
> ...



What if you try medium tips just to see what happens....or maybe whirlwinds.  I listened to my husband's ES4 the other day and, to me, it sounded nothing like what your are describing.  I must admit though... I do prefer my ED16....but I did have to change it's rubbery cable to one like you have on the ES4.


----------



## monitoringsound70

mbwilson111 said:


> What if you try medium tips just to see what happens....or maybe whirlwinds.  I listened to my husband's ES4 the other day and, to me, it sounded nothing like what your are describing.  I must admit though... I do prefer my ED16....but I did have to change it's rubbery cable to one like you have on the ES4.


Yeah I'm gonna try some different tips now anyway. Have to be large though as the medium won't seal at all. But I'll try some others ( I've thousands lol)


----------



## C2thew

Adide said:


> I've decided to put aside for a while this "no eq" principle of mine and tried to fix the very technically potent but with tonal flaws (for me at least) zs10.
> 
> I'm using the settings below and I like very much how it turned out:
> - mids more forward due to hot upper mids/lower trebble (2-4 KHz spike) being dialed down;
> ...



What application are you using for your EQ for android?  I want to try your settings


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 22, 2018)

monitoringsound70 said:


> Yeah I'm gonna try some different tips now anyway. Have to be large though as the medium won't seal at all. But I'll try some others ( I've thousands lol)


I have wide canals too and have had difficulty finding tips large enough to give me a good seal. If you don't already have them, I recommend trying the JVC Spiral Dots. Despite having dozens of other tips, I'm back and forth between those and KZ Starlines 95% of the time.

The Spiral Dots seem to smooth out the FR of earphones in a way that others don't seem to be able to do well, which may sound like BS (it does to me) but measurements have supported this idea. They're also made of a somewhat stiffer silicone and are probably the widest large tip that I have.

I also did find the ES4 sounded much better with the Spiral Dots.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I have large canals too and have had difficulty finding tips large enough to give me a good seal. If you don't already have them, I recommend trying the JVC Spiral Dots. Despite having dozens of other tips, I'm back and forth between those and KZ Starlines 95% of the time.



You can add the core-less ‘marshmallow foam’ tips inside of silicone tips. It stretches them out slightly and makes them fit large canals much better.

Hybrid tips are the best of both worlds - isolation and superior seal of foam and the longevity and hygienics of silicone.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> You can add the core-less ‘marshmallow foam’ tips inside of silicone tips. It stretches them out slightly and makes them fit large canals much better.


I don't know what those are like but I have tried putting a medium Comply tip peeled off its core into a large silicone. It seals well but starts to hurt after a while because it's very stiff.

Edit: It reminded me a lot of the Monster Gel Supertips though not quite as firm. Those were so bad that they were all either too small to create any seal at all or just painful after 10 minutes.


----------



## Slater

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I don't know what those are like but I have tried putting a medium Comply tip into a large silicone. It seals well but starts to hurt after a while because it's very stiff.



Comply foam is much stiffer, and they have the rubber core in the center. That makes them not ideal for DIY hybrid tips.

The marshmallow tips have no core in the middle, and they are super soft and squishy (a little more soft and squishy than foam earplugs).

I can post and link if you want to try some.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Slater said:


> Comply foam is much stiffer, and they have the rubber core in the center. That makes them not ideal for DIY hybrid tips.
> 
> The marshmallow tips have no core in the middle, and they are super soft and squishy (a little more soft and squishy than foam earplugs).
> 
> I can post and link if you want to try some.


Sure, I'd appreciate a link.

I used the Comply foam because some earphones come with a single medium Comply tip, so I have a bunch with no use for them because they're way too small for me. Pulling out the core is actually very easy.


----------



## Slater

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Sure, I'd appreciate a link.
> 
> I used the Comply foam because some earphones come with a single medium Comply tip, so I have a bunch with no use for them because they're way too small for me. Pulling out the core is actually very easy.



No problem, here you go (I forget who provided the photos): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-714#post-14241145

They fit perfectly into LARGE Starline tips with no modifications at all, yet still remain soft. You can technically squish them into medium tips, but the foam gets compressed a lot which makes the tips hard. That's why I only suggest this method for large tips.

Also, here's a method to make your own out of disposable foam ear plugs (credit to hazuken for the photos): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-714#post-14241038

The earplug method is more of a pain because you have to get the size just right (shaving the size and angle down with scissors just right), and you also have to make the hole the right size and perfectly centered. The marshmallow tips are already the perfect size and shape.


----------



## monitoringsound70

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I have wide canals too and have had difficulty finding tips large enough to give me a good seal. If you don't already have them, I recommend trying the JVC Spiral Dots. Despite having dozens of other tips, I'm back and forth between those and KZ Starlines 95% of the time.
> 
> The Spiral Dots seem to smooth out the FR of earphones in a way that others don't seem to be able to do well, which may sound like BS (it does to me) but measurements have supported this idea. They're also made of a somewhat stiffer silicone and are probably the widest large tip that I have.
> 
> I also did find the ES4 sounded much better with the Spiral Dots.



Well I tried some Sony hybrids, spirals and Various others but finally settled on the silicone ones from my M6 pro. Nice and comfortable and the only ones I could get a decent seal. 
Whether it's made the ES4 any better I'm not sure. 
The bass is better and the mids are now that bit less nasal (Although not by much), but the treble is still very lost. No detail at all. And in general they just seem to be missing clarity. 
So i Just popped in my ES3 to compare and there is so much more detail and overall lushness on them that makes me think unfortunately these are just not for me. 
Perhaps I should have gone for the ed16 instead.


----------



## mbwilson111

monitoringsound70 said:


> Perhaps I should have gone for the ed16 instead.



I have no way to know how they would fit you and if you would like them but, as I have said, I love mine.   But I love a lot of my stuff...and I know this is the KZ thread but there ARE other choices as well.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Slater said:


> No problem, here you go (I forget who provided the photos): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-714#post-14241145
> 
> They fit perfectly into LARGE Starline tips with no modifications at all, yet still remain soft. You can technically squish them into medium tips, but the foam gets compressed a lot which makes the tips hard. That's why I only suggest this method for large tips.
> 
> ...


Those look like the KZ ATE foams or at least the supposed ATE foams that I bought on AliExpress, because I've never seen the ATE. I have a full set of those tips and was never able to do anything with them, since they don't stay on the nozzles of any of my IEMs because they're fairly soft and have no core.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Those look like the KZ ATE foams or at least the supposed ATE foams that I bought on AliExpress, because I've never seen the ATE. I have a full set of those tips and was never able to do anything with them, since they don't stay on the nozzles of any of my IEMs because they're fairly soft and have no core.



I know they LOOK the same, but the KZ “gel foam” tips that come with the ATE (and are sold separately) are as hard as a rock. They may as well be made of wood or concrete. You definitely don’t want the KZ ones.

I refer to the ones I posted as “marshmallow” tips because they feel  exactly like when you squish a marshmallow. Super soft, which is what you want.


----------



## monitoringsound70

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no way to know how they would fit you and if you would like them but, as I have said, I love mine.   But I love a lot of my stuff...and I know this is the KZ thread but there ARE other choices as well.



Of course yes. 
To be honest when I was looking at both I thought the ED16 shell resembled the ZS3 in many ways. Which incidentally is my favourite fitting of their's. 
I only went for the 4 because I thought it would be the natural successor of the 3, and i was looking forward to that gorgeous treble. Plus it had a nicer cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

monitoringsound70 said:


> Of course yes.
> To be honest when I was looking at both I thought the ED16 shell resembled the ZS3 in many ways. Which incidentally is my favourite fitting of their's.
> I only went for the 4 because I thought it would be the natural successor of the 3, and i was looking forward to that gorgeous treble. Plus it had a nicer cable.



Cables are replaceable.  It  has been awhile since I tried the ZS3 but if I remember correctly the ED16 is much smaller.  I actually found the ZS3 uncomfortable... something was pressing in the wrong spot for me.  Gifted them to my husband....or traded for something.  To my ears the ED16 has more treble and air than the ES4 but not at the expense of anything else.  Very addictive sound.  I will be using them later tonight.  Like I said, I have the ES4 cable on my ED16 (actually taken from my husbands ZSA because he put on a different cable).  The angled connector suits the ED16 just fine... in fact it gives me a more comfortable fit.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Slater said:


> I know they LOOK the same, but the KZ “gel foam” tips that come with the ATE (and are sold separately) are as hard as a rock. They may as well be made of wood or concrete. You definitely don’t want the KZ ones.
> 
> I refer to the ones I posted as “marshmallow” tips because they feel  exactly like when you squish a marshmallow. Super soft, which is what you want.


Just ordered them. It would be nice if I can add a third option that I find satisfying.


----------



## monitoringsound70 (Jun 22, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Cables are replaceable.  It  has been awhile since I tried the ZS3 but if I remember correctly the ED16 is much smaller.  I actually found the ZS3 uncomfortable... something was pressing in the wrong spot for me.  Gifted them to my husband....or traded for something.  To my ears the ED16 has more treble and air than the ES4 but not at the expense of anything else.  Very addictive sound.  I will be using them later tonight.  Like I said, I have the ES4 cable on my ED16 (actually taken from my husbands ZSA because he put on a different cable).  The angled connector suits the ED16 just fine... in fact it gives me a more comfortable fit.



Sounds like the 16 are more like the successor I wanted. More treble and air hits the mark. Seems to my ears the 4 is a step backwards. I prefer the ED12 to them.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 22, 2018)

monitoringsound70 said:


> Sounds like the 16 are more like the successor I wanted. More treble and air hits the mark. Seems to my ears the 4 is a step backwards



Many people are loving the ES4.  I like it... I just like the ED16 more.  I think I have a few other iems that already cover the ES4s strengths.

You could keep the ES4, buy the ED16, switch the cables and then gift the ES4 to a family member... most people do really like them and the cable that comes with the ED16 is tough


----------



## monitoringsound70 (Jun 22, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Many people are loving the ES4.  I like it... I just like the ED16 more.  I think I have a few other iems that already cover the ES4s strengths.
> 
> You could keep the ES4, buy the ED16, switch the cables and then gift the ES4 to a family member... most people do really like them and the cable that comes with the ED16 is tough.
> 
> ...


----------



## Slater

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Just ordered them. It would be nice if I can add a third option that I find satisfying.



Not following you.

You mean a 3rd option about how to DIY your own hybrid ear tips?

Or a 3rd option for people with large ear canals?


----------



## Adide

C2thew said:


> What application are you using for your EQ for android?  I want to try your settings



I use my IEMs only while mobile through my phone where I play Tidal hifi through Usb Audio Player Pro (UAPP) which has an integrated 10 bands eq as well as a parametric eq (I use the first one).

For an Android phone, if you don't have eq embedded in your player there's a generic 10 bands eq in the store (just search "10 bands equaliser"). Haven't tried it though.

Most 10 bands eq allow dialing on the same bands so you should just mimic mine.

I don't use eq on desktop yet.

Good luck.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Slater said:


> Not following you.
> 
> You mean a 3rd option about how to DIY your own hybrid ear tips?
> 
> Or a 3rd option for people with large ear canals?


Sorry, lack of context. I meant a 3rd tip option to my current 2: Spiral Dot and Starline. Because at the present one of those is almost always the best option for me.


----------



## CYoung234

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I think there is info above 15khz...I have to boost 16kHz to a point where I hear a certain ring....
> 
> And it has been notified on hypersonic paper in Japan, that blind test showed that boosted high frequency is indeed noticeable.
> 
> ...



I approach all of this more as a musician than scientist or technician, but it has always been my feeling that the harmonic structure of various instruments gives their sound distinctive characteristics or ring, even if the overtones themselves are beyond the range of human hearing.


----------



## Adide

monitoringsound70 said:


> Just came home to my Cyan Blue ES4 waiting for me  about an hour ago and am listening to them at the moment.
> Using large Starline tips I've got a pretty good seal and isolation is pretty good.
> The brown cable is also nice with no microphonics whatsoever
> 
> ...



Don't want to start a riot over fr graph relevancy visavis actual performance but you're like reading from the picture curve point by point.

Well, sometimes for some ears it matches perfectly, in your case for the worst.

I'm sorry for that, I hope you'll find a fix for them, good luck pal.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 2, 2018)

monitoringsound70 said:


> Good idea but I don't have anyone to give them to and I can't see me warming to them.
> Think I will definitely get the 16 though. The blue is nice.



It is... so is my "black"

The first picture is the ES4 and the ED16 together showing the shape difference...taken before I changed the cable.

I just now took the second photo to show it with the cable change.

edited to clarify:  That is a ZSA cable in my ED16 in the second photo.  The ES4 cable with NOT fit the ZSA or an ED16.   ES4 and ZS10 have the same cable.   ZSA and ED16, while having a different angle to the connector will fit each other.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 22, 2018)

sorry for double post... headfi did something wonky


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Sorry, lack of context. I meant a 3rd tip option to my current 2: Spiral Dot and Starline. Because at the present one of those is almost always the best option for me.



Ah, gotcha.

Well, I swear by Auvio Wide Bores. They have the same streamlined shape and size as Starlines, but are wide bores for better sound on many IEMs.

Most wide bore tips (ie KZ and Tennmak Turbo/Whirlwind) are very short and wide (like the cap of a mushroom). But they don’t work on most IEMs because they require a large nozzle and they are short so it causes a shallow insertion. They’re also not the most comfortable tip.

The Auvios on the other hand, have the same core size as a Starline (either 3 or 4mm), and they are just as long, so you can get a nice deep insertion similar to Starlines. But unlike the Starlines, they are wide bore so you typically get a more spacious and open sound, a bit more midrange and treble sparkle, etc.

Starlines are great for concentrating sub bass like a cannon, but I am finding I use Auvios more and more (and Starlines less less).

They are basically the closest thing to Spiral Dots, without the spiral dot price raping. I only regret not knowing about them years ago (especially now that they’ve been discontinued and are dirt cheap). Luckily I am all stocked up now


----------



## monitoringsound70

Adide said:


> Don't want to start a riot over fr graph relevancy visavis actual performance but you're like reading from the picture curve point by point.
> 
> Well, sometimes for some ears it matches perfectly, in your case for the worst.
> 
> I'm sorry for that, I hope you'll find a fix for them, good luck pal.



Thanks bud. I appreciate it.


----------



## monitoringsound70

mbwilson111 said:


> It is... so is my "black"
> 
> The first picture is the ES4 and the ED16 together showing the shape difference...taken before I changed the cable.
> 
> I just now took the second photo to show it with the cable change.



That's really helpful, thank you so much for the pictures. 
Yeah the 16 look much more ergonomic
Not to mention cooler. 
Well that's settled it. I'll go for them.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jun 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> Ah, gotcha.
> 
> Well, I swear by Auvio Wide Bores. They have the same streamlined shape and size as Starlines, but are wide bores for better sound on many IEMs.
> 
> ...


How is the texture of the silicone? Have you actually compared them with Spiral Dots? I've tried other tips that look similar but didn't work nearly as well. For example, I got tips with my T2 that look very much like that but they gave me a terrible seal, while the Spiral Dots give the best seal of any silicone I've tried. The Auvios are on sale at Radio Shack right now but there's a $5 shipping charge. Trying to decide if I should just buy a bunch.

Somewhat off topic but something I like to do to test the level of isolation offered by and eartip is to gently tap the tips my index finger and thumb together next to my ear and see how well I hear that, along with how much of the low/high frequencies the tip filters out.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> How is the texture of the silicone? Have you actually compared them with Spiral Dots? I've tried other tips that look similar but didn't work nearly as well. For example, I got tips with my T2 that look very much like that but they gave me a terrible seal, while the Spiral Dots give the best seal of any silicone I've tried. The Auvios are on sale at Radio Shack right now but there's a $5 shipping charge. Trying to decide if I should just buy a bunch.
> 
> Somewhat off topic but something I like to do to test the level of isolation offered by and eartip is to gently tap the tips my index finger and thumb together next to my ear and see how well I hear that, along with how much of the low/high frequencies the tip filters out.



I buy a bunch to get the free shipping. There's also a 15% coupon code you can use at checkout (RADIO15).

Since you only wear L, you can benefit from the 3 L pairs/$1 pack! I use M, so I have to get the SML pack for $1.50 because they are long sold out of the 3 M pairs/$1.

As far as the Auvio texture, it's smooth but the silicone is a bit grippy.

Starlines have a very faint "grainy" texture that enhances grip, which is one of their strongest features.

I haven't owned Spiral Dots in a long time, so I don't remember the exact texture of them.

If you want to try Auvios out before committing to a big order, PM me and we can discuss.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Slater said:


> I buy a bunch to get the free shipping. There's also a 15% coupon code you can use at checkout (RADIO15).
> 
> Since you only wear L, you can benefit from the 3 L pairs/$1 pack! I use M, so I have to get the SML pack for $1.50 because they are long sold out of the 3 M pairs/$1.
> 
> ...


I don't know what it is and I hate to sound like a fanboy but it's like there's something magical about the Spiral Dots. I've tried so many large silicone tips to varying degrees of comfort. At least for my ears, I've always found that others are either too soft, flimsy, stiff, narrow, short, long, poorly sealing. I realize we're talking about 6 overpriced pieces of silicone for $10-15, and I probably spent more time thinking over their original purchase than that money is worth to me, but I was really happy I eventually ordered them. I can't find anything else that checks off all the right boxes the same way.

I guess I could just buy the Auvios. Also I appreciate the offer but I don't care to trouble someone just to save me a few bucks. They're also on Amazon at $3 for a single pack from a third-party seller, unless you think I should worry about fakes.


----------



## Slater

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I don't know what it is and I hate to sound like a fanboy but it's like there's something magical about the Spiral Dots. I've tried so many large silicone tips to varying degrees of comfort. At least for my ears, I've always found that others are either too soft, flimsy, stiff, narrow, short, long, poorly sealing. I realize we're talking about 6 overpriced pieces of silicone for $10-15, and I probably spent more time thinking over their original purchase than that money is worth to me, but I was really happy I eventually ordered them. I can't find anything else that checks off all the right boxes the same way.
> 
> I guess I could just buy the Auvios. Also I appreciate the offer but I don't care to trouble someone just to save me a few bucks. They're also on Amazon at $3 for a single pack from a third-party seller, unless you think I should worry about fakes.



Nah, there's no fake Auvios. Just people reselling them on ebay and Amazon.

I'd go for the $3 pack (unless you can find a better price on ebay).


----------



## jant71 (Jun 22, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I don't know what it is and I hate to sound like a fanboy but it's like there's something magical about the Spiral Dots. I've tried so many large silicone tips to varying degrees of comfort. At least for my ears, I've always found that others are either too soft, flimsy, stiff, narrow, short, long, poorly sealing. I realize we're talking about 6 overpriced pieces of silicone for $10-15, and I probably spent more time thinking over their original purchase than that money is worth to me, but I was really happy I eventually ordered them. I can't find anything else that checks off all the right boxes the same way.
> 
> I guess I could just buy the Auvios. Also I appreciate the offer but I don't care to trouble someone just to save me a few bucks. They're also on Amazon at $3 for a single pack from a third-party seller, unless you think I should worry about fakes.



Spiral Dot+ 
(material and shape further evolved, natural fit, material closer characteristics to skin. At least that is how they tell it)


----------



## Daftem

Hi, friends! You have a little enthusiast here


----------



## Danfish98

What are the tiny ones with the blue tips?  Those look comfy.


----------



## TheVortex

Danfish98 said:


> What are the tiny ones with the blue tips?  Those look comfy.



That is the Tin Audio T2 and it actually comes with the blue tips.


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> You can add the core-less ‘marshmallow foam’ tips inside of silicone tips. It stretches them out slightly and makes them fit large canals much better.
> 
> Hybrid tips are the best of both worlds - isolation and superior seal of foam and the longevity and hygienics of silicone.



Has anyone charted or tested "hybrid" (silicone with foam core) comparing SQ vs silicone? (ex starlines)


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I don't know what it is and I hate to sound like a fanboy but it's like there's something magical about the Spiral Dots. I've tried so many large silicone tips to varying degrees of comfort. At least for my ears, I've always found that others are either too soft, flimsy, stiff, narrow, short, long, poorly sealing. I realize we're talking about 6 overpriced pieces of silicone for $10-15, and I probably spent more time thinking over their original purchase than that money is worth to me, but I was really happy I eventually ordered them. I can't find anything else that checks off all the right boxes the same way.
> 
> I guess I could just buy the Auvios. Also I appreciate the offer but I don't care to trouble someone just to save me a few bucks. They're also on Amazon at $3 for a single pack from a third-party seller, unless you think I should worry about fakes.


I love them too but so expensive. Same with sony hybrids. My main go to tips though are the double flange tips. Large bores, and super soft. The most comfy for me with spiral dots coming in second. 
Have you ever tried the double flange tips?


----------



## Slater

Daftem said:


> Hi, friends! You have a little enthusiast here



Lots of good stuff there!


----------



## Slater

Strat Rider said:


> Has anyone charted or tested "hybrid" (silicone with foam core) comparing SQ vs silicone? (ex starlines)



I’m sure somewhere.

Hybrid tips have been commercially produced a number of times, including by some big name companies. So I’m sure one or more of them did plenty of testing and measuring.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 22, 2018)

Adide said:


> I've decided to put aside for a while this "no eq" principle of mine and tried to fix the very technically potent but with tonal flaws (for me at least) zs10.
> 
> I'm using the settings below and I like very much how it turned out:
> - mids more forward due to hot upper mids/lower trebble (2-4 KHz spike) being dialed down;
> ...



Im gonna play with that a bit. Been doing this with good results, but I will admit I was raising the low end a bit to warm up things a bit at the expense of clarity.


----------



## KainHighwind

Do you guys get minor electric shock when using metal shell IEMs? I'm using CI880 on my laptop and when I connect the earphone to my laptop then put the earphone to my ear, I feel like there's a minor electric shock inside my ear, when plugging into my smartphone, I do not feel electric shock, is it because my laptop or the earphone (which is very old, no battery so it needs to connect to adapter all the time). When using plastic shells IEMs like KZ, I don't feel electric shock.


----------



## Daftem

Slater said:


> Lots of good stuff there!



Thanks! They are so freaking amazing. I love all of them haha


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> Do you guys get minor electric shock when using metal shell IEMs? I'm using CI880 on my laptop and when I connect the earphone to my laptop then put the earphone to my ear, I feel like there's a minor electric shock inside my ear, when plugging into my smartphone, I do not feel electric shock, is it because my laptop or the earphone (which is very old, no battery so it needs to connect to adapter all the time). When using plastic shells IEMs like KZ, I don't feel electric shock.



That’s a grounding/isolation problem with the laptop.

I’ve actually seen SSD hard drives and memory sticks permanently die from similar static electric issues.


----------



## Pronounta

Pronounta said:


> Need some help by you guys:
> 
> One thing that I really look for in IEMs is clarity. I hate muddy sound/bass just as much as sharp highs which mask much of the subtle sounds that may exist in a song.
> 
> ...



First of all, thanks to everyone who has answered my question. I took a good hard look at everyone of the products mentioned.

Now, someone has pointed out that emphasized mids and fun sound signature are usually contradictory (which I blame on my lack of knowledge about audio stuff in general, haha), so just try to ignore the part about the "fun" sound signature. When I said "fun" I meant that it can deviate a bit from what people may consider neutral/natural, as long as it doesn't deviate too much. Rest still stands though: emphasized mids, also maybe a decent amount of mid bass, even if that means that sub bass is slightly recessed, and also recessed highs (mainly because I really hate pierce and hearing fatigue). Basically: warm sound while keeping the bass at bay.

I've looked at some of the options presented:

ED16: does look very good, but some have pointed out its not perfectly neutral sound signature, so I've been looking at others.

TinAudio T2: looks even better than the ED16, but what worries me a bit is the part of this review where it says:"Unfortunately, this treble will probably be too much for people with sensitive hearing". Simply because my hearing is pretty damn sensitive, and also because I'd prefer recessed highs.

Unfortunately, many options were removed immediately due to the lack of a removable cable which I need for bluetooth.

So, I've decided to go on audiobudget.com and compare some of the other IEMs to the T2 and the ED16. Now I'm kinda stuck at the NICECHK Bro: non-piercing sound, not muddy, mid-bass emphasis, bright mids all sounds pretty good and also a bit more true to my taste compared to the ED16 and T2. Also, MMCX so I can get myself a bluetooth cable.

Unless anyone tells me that getting the NICECHK Bro would be a terrible mistake/ not actually what I want and I just think that it is what I want because I'm really bad at audio stuff and don't really know what I'm reading, I'll probably get them, haha.

Again, thanks for everyone who has answered so far and thanks in advance for every coming answer!


----------



## Slater (Jun 23, 2018)

Pronounta said:


> First of all, thanks to everyone who has answered my question. I took a good hard look at everyone of the products mentioned.
> 
> Now, someone has pointed out that emphasized mids and fun sound signature are usually contradictory (which I blame on my lack of knowledge about audio stuff in general, haha), so just try to ignore the part about the "fun" sound signature. When I said "fun" I meant that it can deviate a bit from what people may consider neutral/natural, as long as it doesn't deviate too much. Rest still stands though: emphasized mids, also maybe a decent amount of mid bass, even if that means that sub bass is slightly recessed, and also recessed highs (mainly because I really hate pierce and hearing fatigue). Basically: warm sound while keeping the bass at bay.
> 
> ...



That line on the T2 treble is bunk IMO. For every 1 HeadFier that doesn’t like the T2, there’s 200 that do. You can find people that don’t like every single headphone on the planet, even TOTL models costing thousands.

You have no reason to be afraid of the T2 treble. It’s treble is no sharper than the Bro (which I also own).

The Bro is very average sounding, and there is no comparison with the T2. The T2 is legendary for a reason.

If you are that sensitive to treble, and want a warm and fun IEM, get the KZ ZSR (or even ZS3).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Im going to rec **** 6in1. Been playing with this thing all week and despite having thrown everything at it, it just plain kills at all genres. Elevated sub bass, semi deep mid bass hit with forward mids and a nice lovely treble that doesn't pierce. They can get shouty at high volumes or on really badly mixed albums that are upper mid centric(jpop), but overall they are quite nice, warm and energetic. 

My favorite sound sig in the world in Yamaha Pro500. W shape with blazing fast low end and almost a frantic out of control energy level to them. been looking for a comparable iem sig and 6in1 is closest so far.


----------



## hiflofi

The AB dude seems sus. Copy-pastes reviews.


----------



## phower

Did anyone try the KZ USB C DAC? It is < $10 on AE.  Boutique DAC companies charge 100s of dollars for DACs. 
There are 2 versions. One angled and another one straight. Not sure whether the are interchangeable if you have multiple KZ that require the different versions based on the description.


----------



## Pronounta

hiflofi said:


> The AB dude seems sus. Copy-pastes reviews.



Thanks for pointing that out.



Slater said:


> That line on the T2 treble is bunk IMO. For every 1 HeadFier that doesn’t like the T2, there’s 200 that do. You can find people that don’t like every single headphone on the planet, even TOTL models costing thousands.
> 
> You have no reason to be afraid of the T2 treble. It’s treble is no sharper than the Bro (which I also own).
> 
> ...



Honestly, I didn't even know that the T2 is considered legendary. If you say that there is no reason to be afraid of the T2 treble, then I'll believe that and probably go with it if that is the recommendation of you and some others, along with this cheap thing.

The ZS3 is the one I used to own and while it was good, it wasn't quite made for me. Felt maybe a bit too bassy (at least the sub bass) and lacked some of my preferred mid-dominance. Basically, I'd say it was sufficiently warm but with too much of the warmth coming from the sub bass, if you get what I mean.


----------



## Zerohour88

phower said:


> Did anyone try the KZ USB C DAC? It is < $10 on AE.  Boutique DAC companies charge 100s of dollars for DACs.
> There are 2 versions. One angled and another one straight. Not sure whether the are interchangeable if you have multiple KZ that require the different versions based on the description.



I'd get it only if I needed a converter and don't mind about SQ. Other than that, just find the various cheap chi-fi USB DAC available, like the SMSL X4 (or even the Breeze Audio SE4), amazing value even when compared to stuff from Audioquest


----------



## SuperLuigi

phower said:


> Did anyone try the KZ USB C DAC? It is < $10 on AE.  Boutique DAC companies charge 100s of dollars for DACs.
> There are 2 versions. One angled and another one straight. Not sure whether the are interchangeable if you have multiple KZ that require the different versions based on the description.



There's a few companies selling usb c dac for that sort of price.  Google's own USB C cable is only $10.


----------



## 1clearhead

Daftem said:


> Hi, friends! You have a little enthusiast here


I see that the KZ ZS6 has its personal competition sitting just to the upper right of it in metal gray. Which one, personally sounds better to you?


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> I’m sure somewhere.
> 
> Hybrid tips have been commercially produced a number of times, including by some big name companies. So I’m sure one or more of them did plenty of testing and measuring.



I agree somewhere it's been done.

I have been using starlines as well, and definitely agree about the depth of insertion with whirlwinds.

So I'll start the hunt for Auvio since I have never tried them.

Is there another long stem, wide bore tip that is comparable to Auvio, that is not spiral dots?
I have tried spiral dots, but my ears didn't care for them.


----------



## Slater

Strat Rider said:


> I agree somewhere it's been done.
> 
> I have been using starlines as well, and definitely agree about the depth of insertion with whirlwinds.
> 
> ...



I’ve gotten a few that look very similar to Auvios here and there that were included with IEMs.

I just don’t know which IEMs they came from because I put all of my tips in 1 central location to make tip rolling easier.


----------



## psygeist (Jun 23, 2018)

Pronounta said:


> The ZS3 is the one I used to own and while it was good, it wasn't quite made for me. Felt maybe a bit too bassy (at least the sub bass) and lacked some of my preferred mid-dominance. Basically, I'd say it was sufficiently warm but with too much of the warmth coming from the sub bass, if you get what I mean.


T2 you may like. It's a neutral iem. Slightly warm. It's closer to HiFiMan signature.

I liked ZSR but not ZS3.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I just don’t know which IEMs they came from because I put all of my tips in 1 central location to make tip rolling easier.



If I could start over, I would label my tips so I would know where they came from.  Too late now!


----------



## Pronounta

I'm confused...

Can I use every single MMCX bluetooth cable with every single IEM which uses MMCX? Because every bluetooth cable that I can find on Aliexpress only seems to support a certain brand of headphones. Could I use this or this one (for example) for Tinaudio T2s anyway?


----------



## stryed

I wonder why KZ isn't releasing a top notch IEM that can be worn down. The last downward fitting wasthe ZSE and was as cheap as can be, if I'm not mistaken.Is it because they stray away from DD territory? A pity.  
KZ's new line seems like a success (ES4, ED16) but what is there for people that don't want over ears?


----------



## TheVortex

stryed said:


> I wonder why KZ isn't releasing a top notch IEM that can be worn down. The last downward fitting wasthe ZSE and was as cheap as can be, if I'm not mistaken.Is it because they stray away from DD territory? A pity.
> KZ's new line seems like a success (ES4, ED16) but what is there for people that don't want over ears?



That is exactly what I want but the only option is the ED15 but I don't own it yet but some people have it. Urbanfun is another good option.


----------



## Daftem

1clearhead said:


> I see that the KZ ZS6 has its personal competition sitting just to the upper right of it in metal gray. Which one, personally sounds better to you?



Revo is definitely better, bro


----------



## mosz

found a blog in Japanese that might help some,

ZSA Review:
http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55704591.html

a comparison between ZSA ES4 and ZSR:
http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55705740.html

hope it's okay to post these links


----------



## Slater (Jun 24, 2018)

stryed said:


> I wonder why KZ isn't releasing a top notch IEM that can be worn down. The last downward fitting wasthe ZSE and was as cheap as can be, if I'm not mistaken.Is it because they stray away from DD territory? A pity.
> KZ's new line seems like a success (ES4, ED16) but what is there for people that don't want over ears?



Someone pointed out about a month ago or so that it was possible to wear the ZS6 down.

I don’t remember if you have to switch L/R sides to do so. But at the time he posted the trick I tried it out, and sure enough it worked out pretty slick. That also means the ZS5 will work that way since the bodies are similar (and it likely works on other KZ models as well).


----------



## HiFiChris

The colours of the new (Westone Monitor Vasul-/OtterBox-inspired) KZ storage box (https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009657512881.html) look pretty cool. I especially like the green.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Just picked up my Ed16. 
Will post some thoughts a bit later once I get home.


----------



## Danfish98

Slater said:


> Someone pointed out about a month ago or so that it was possible to wear the ZS6 down.
> 
> I don’t remember if you have to switch L/R sides to do so. But at the time he posted the trick I tried it out, and sure enough it worked out pretty slick. That also means the ZS5 will work that way since the bodies are similar (and it likely works on other KZ models as well).



That's the only way I found to make the ZS5 not kill my ears. Switch left and right and make the housing come out at around a 45 degree angle. I still use them in an over the ear configuration but much more comfortable for me that way. I wear the ZS10 and ES4 completely down by switching left and right. Nothing really make the ZS10 comfortable but the ES4 is extremely comfortable that way.


----------



## fredhubbard2

stryed said:


> I wonder why KZ isn't releasing a top notch IEM that can be worn down. The last downward fitting wasthe ZSE and was as cheap as can be, if I'm not mistaken.Is it because they stray away from DD territory? A pity.
> KZ's new line seems like a success (ES4, ED16) but what is there for people that don't want over ears?



i have ZS5, ZST, ZSR and just ordered ED16 and i wear all of them down ear and they are very comfortable


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 24, 2018)

HiFiChris said:


> The colours of the new (Westone Monitor Vasul-/OtterBox-inspired) KZ storage box (https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009657512881.html) look pretty cool. I especially like the green.




Yeah, on Amazon the Westone is $22 and the KZ is $10.

I think the KZ case is a tight fit for IEMs with detachable cables if you store the IEM with the cable attached.



Spoiler



Westone 




 


 



KZ



 







Someone posted a pic a few weeks back and things looked a little bit too snug.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I’ve gotten a few that look very similar to Auvios here and there that were included with IEMs.
> 
> I just don’t know which IEMs they came from because I put all of my tips in 1 central location to make tip rolling easier.



Just got this storage boxception thingy from menards for $5. Good for tips or even iems with detachable cables.


----------



## KainHighwind

fredhubbard2 said:


> i have ZS5, ZST, ZSR and just ordered ED16 and i wear all of them down ear and they are very comfortable



I might try with my ES4 even though I think normal wearing is already comfortable.


----------



## monitoringsound70 (Jun 24, 2018)

Sorry if this goes on a bit.

Well after hours of trying, finally getting a decent (ish) fit with these new ED16.
Gees these things are a bugger to get a seal.
I tried all my go to tips and not one would get in my ears deep enough to get anywhere near comfortable, I don't think the length of the nozzles are the problem (although it could be) maybe the design of the shell itself on my ears, as a few times I felt like I was stabbing myself in the ear with the pointy part of the shell trying to get them to seal, Very painful.

Anyway after nearly giving up i tried the Sony hybrid and voila, comfort and a fairly decent seal. Not brilliant though and the isolation isn't the best, but certainly not a disaster.
So definitely not the best fitting of my KZ collection. 
Sound wise though.....

After being a touch disappointed with the rather undetailed ES4 these sound more like the upgrade to the ES3 I was expecting, A Nice and fast bass which goes deep when needed with a nice punch.

One thing missing from the ES3 was the mids, rather too laid back and got lost on occasion, this doesn't happen here as they are nice and clear with plenty of body and sound full, thanks to the extra Ba for them. Very nice. 

Treble for me here is nigh on perfect, detailed and full of sparkle but just like the ES3 ever so slightly rolled off, only here they are much fuller sounding but still dance away with zero fatigue. Top marks here.

So fit issues aside these are very impressive sound wise. Unfatiging, i could definitely listen for hours, These are very musical sounding indeed.
Not so much taken with the shape of the shells but still I'm very happy indeed with the sound.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> I think the KZ case is a tight fit for IEMs with detachable cables if you store the IEM with the cable attached.
> 
> Someone posted a pic a few weeks back and things looked a little bit too snug.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2266#post-14317430


----------



## smy1

So es4 is better than zs10?


----------



## KainHighwind

smy1 said:


> So es4 is better than zs10?



There are positive and negative opinions about zs10, while es4 mostly has positive opinions, so I guess es4 is a safer option, it's might be hard to say which is better.


----------



## oneula

mine all packaged up for recycling


----------



## HiFiChris (Jun 25, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I think the KZ case is a tight fit for IEMs with detachable cables if you store the IEM with the cable attached.



Not really - the Mini Monitor Vault 1 that came included as stock accessory with my Westone W4R has easily got enough room for it, so does the Monitor Vault 2 that came with the UM Pro 10. They're more spacious than you might think and offer about the same space as most of the zipped storage bags or Brainwavz' old zipped storage bad (does anyone even remember that one?). The two ZS6s and the ZS5 I have here would fit rather well, even though something like the newer, elongated zipped Brainwavz storage bag of course offers more comfort.

Storage boxes that are too small though are the ones that came with my Logitech/Ultimate Ears UE900 and UE900S - I just couldn't get the IEMs to fit inside (they probably didn't consider the memory wire on the ear guides), and the storage boxes were, frankly speaking, also cheaply made. Therefore I got an oversized OtterBox and Thomann MixCase 1812A for them.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 25, 2018)

HiFiChris said:


> Not really - the Mini Monitor Vault 1 that came included as stock accessory with my Westone W4R has easily got enough room for it, so does the Monitor Vault 2 that came with the UM Pro 10. They're more spacious than you might think and offer about the same space as most of the zipped storage bags or Brainwavz' old zipped storage bad (does anyone even remember that one?). The two ZS6s and the ZS5 I have here would fit rather well, even though something like the newer, elongated zipped Brainwavz storage bag of course offers more comfort.
> 
> Storage boxes that are too small though are the ones that came with my Logitech/Ultimate Ears UE900 and UE900S - I just couldn't get the IEMs to fit inside (they probably didn't consider the memory wire on the ear guides), and the storage boxes were, frankly speaking, also cheaply made. Therefore I got an oversized OtterBox and Thomann MixCase 1812A for them.



A little snug for me so I won't be buying any.



 



These have worked best for me.



 


 

I fit two ZS6's in one case without worry. Just have each set face in opposite directions so the earpieces don't scratch.

$8 for a 2-pack.


----------



## cleg

my take on ZSA, subjectively I like them more then ZS10, but it's very tastes-dependent


----------



## CoiL (Jun 25, 2018)

jant71 said:


> Spiral Dot+


+ is new version? I have regular spiral dot S size.


Strat Rider said:


> Is there another long stem, wide bore tip that is comparable to Auvio, that is not spiral dots?


These, but only come with this cheap (mediocre sounding) IEM: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.746e4c4dbhziYE
These give me very nice results with IT01, ZS5v1 and ATE FF-mod. Similar sound to Auvio S size wide-bore but have "cone" shape and longer stem/skirt, which can help extending nozzle length.
I use them for modded ZS5v1.


HiFiChris said:


> The colours of the new (Westone Monitor Vasul-/OtterBox-inspired) KZ storage box (https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009657512881.html) look pretty cool. I especially like the green.


I don`t know about You guys but after getting IT01 and the circle-case it uses, I don`t want to use those plastic cases and zip bags.
There are many like those out there and I will order some more for sure:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cas...469.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.70d82e0exXwnFV

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...740.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.70d82e0exXwnFV

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...686.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.70d82e0exXwnFV

They are so comfort and fast to use (silicone clamp-ring) and have just right amount of room, not being bulky from outside.
And if someone wants to add carry-clamp - it`s easy DIY.


----------



## HiFiChris

If the one from your 3rd link is about comparable to the original, then it's an awesome storage tin. I have the original that came with my Triple.Fi 10 and love it (looks great, is of high quality and quite practical as well as spacious enough yet small and portable).
The iBasso-like round one should be good, too - if the lid isn't fitting too loosely, which is unfortunately the case with the one that came with the IT01 I have on hand.
If any manufacturer offers a case somewhat similar to the one that came with my Shure SE846, it should be a good one too. It is among my favourite IEM cases. Imo the zipped Brainwavz ones are good too.
The Peli Cases are great too, however on the pricier side and quite large and bulky, therefore not really for portable use.
Personally, I really like the Westone Mini-Monitor Vault cases (made by Otter, if I'm not totally wrong) and *their Chinese KZ copies*, but the latch might break after some years (pressure from the rubber seal rings that can however be removed in order to prevent the latch from breaking).


----------



## Dickymint

On the subject of cases for our beloved earphones, I have bought a few lately, the KZ case is lovely but needs to be half as big again, I bought some others as in the pictures below. The blue one is big, you can get a DAP in there as well but the divider then crushes your headphones, not good. Whereas the purple one is just right, a bit floppy and the zip isn't fantastic but for me, the best size of all. All from our favourite supplier Ali whatever his name is! The case that looks black is purple on the outside, sorry!


----------



## pbui44 (Jun 25, 2018)

If you feel that your case is not thick enough for your KZ, check out the Brainwavz earphone cases here:

https://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Ha...X236_SY340_QL65&keywords=brainwavz+case&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01B...g_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=K5W8EQCTCHV92NK893AS

Also, a 20-piece pleather-button-strap set for cable management:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0777HBLMN/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?psc=1&smid=A3FDTOHZCS60NG


----------



## surfacecube (Jun 25, 2018)

Hey guys, doing this 



Spoiler










 wont damage the BA ? Nor putting the mesh back, right ?

Actually forgot what ZS5 I had so had to open them up again... Still have a ZS5v1 thanks god


----------



## KainHighwind

I'm using Xiaomi Mi5 and my headphone volume rarely goes over 70%, I'm considering to purchase Fiio A1 because it's cheap, but is it worth to purchase an amp if I do not listen to the full volume of my phone? And there are some cheap music players on Aliexpress (sub $50 USD), do you think these cheap music players is better than smartphone?


----------



## umairahsan

Hello guys. I want to know if FiiO FH1 is worth buying. And how much better or worse they are in comparison to these KZ IEMs.


----------



## chi-fi mel

I got my EDR1 today to compare with my EDR2. Both are a steal, excellent sound and build quality. I can't tell you how bad the EDR1 sounded with the stock tips. Why does KZ sell such great headphones with tips that range from fair to poor. They have never made tips that I found useable. Talk about a fatal flaw. I'm sure that the vast majority of consumers don't know anything about tip rolling, so they've got something that sounds like garbage and will never know how great it really is. Clean up your act KZ - If JVC, Sony and Spinfit can make quality tips, why can't you. By the way, after a quick listen I'd say the two sound very similar with a slight edge to the EDR2.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

chi-fi mel said:


> I got my EDR1 today to compare with my EDR2. Both are a steal, excellent sound and build quality. By the way, after a quick listen I'd say the two sound very similar with a slight edge to the EDR2.


That's not what I want to hear... Do I have to buy EDR2 now? No... I hope not.


----------



## s8grave (Jun 26, 2018)

zs10 arrived, at last.
Well, can't hear the "ODD" sound from many reviews.
Good separation, no harshness, great imaging, they are on the dark side, non fatiguing sound)
NOT FOR SMALL EARS!


----------



## surfacecube

chi-fi mel said:


> I got my EDR1 today to compare with my EDR2. Both are a steal, excellent sound and build quality. I can't tell you how bad the EDR1 sounded with the stock tips. Why does KZ sell such great headphones with tips that range from fair to poor. They have never made tips that I found useable. Talk about a fatal flaw. I'm sure that the vast majority of consumers don't know anything about tip rolling, so they've got something that sounds like garbage and will never know how great it really is. Clean up your act KZ - If JVC, Sony and Spinfit can make quality tips, why can't you. By the way, after a quick listen I'd say the two sound very similar with a slight edge to the EDR2.



I agree so much with you... All the stock tips made a lot of uncomfortable pressure inside my ears, were messing up the sound most of the time. Put the tips of my ZS5/ES4 instead and it's amazing. I loooove my ZS5v1 because of how clear its sound is but I love the fun factor of the EDR1. ES4 was the middle ground for me, sadly I got a defective unit lol


----------



## Wiljen

umairahsan said:


> Hello guys. I want to know if FiiO FH1 is worth buying. And how much better or worse they are in comparison to these KZ IEMs.



FH1 is better construction wise than most KZ. (Exceptions might be the Zs6 and newer ZsA which share the metal shell, although I personally think fit and finish is better on the FH1 than even those two).
Sound Wise the FH1 has a treble spike at about 9kHz that cuts through the signature pretty confidently.   Several of the Kz line are also known for treble spikes so this is not a huge differentiator but the KZ is usually closer to 7kHz so the spike on the FH1 to my ear is a bit further up the spectrum from that of the Zs6.    Neither of those two are for the treble shy.

Both the Zs6 and the FH1 also share elevated bass and are not for those seeking a near neutral experience.    As for price comparison, the Fiio has a much better kit with it than the Average KZ so if you add the extra cable, case etc... to the price of the Zs6, price is pretty close.   I have both and find myself reaching for the FH1 far more often than the Zs6 due to better fit and finish and the treble being slightly less intrusive.


----------



## Slater (Jun 26, 2018)

chi-fi mel said:


> I got my EDR1 today to compare with my EDR2. Both are a steal, excellent sound and build quality.



+1



chi-fi mel said:


> I can't tell you how bad the EDR1 sounded with the stock tips.



+1.

I use Starlines on my EDR1s. The EDR1/2 nozzle has a narrow opening, and doesn’t really benefit from wide bore tips in my experience. Starlines are an excellent match not only with the fit and comfort, but also for the narrow nozzle bore.



chi-fi mel said:


> I'm sure that the vast majority of consumers don't know anything about tip rolling, so they've got something that sounds like garbage and will never know how great it really is.



I just assume most people on HeadFi not only know about tip rolling, but it’s one of the 1st things they do after getting an IEM.

If not, then it’s really unfortunate like you said. Because 75% of the stock tips I receive with IEMs are not the best tips to use with that IEM.


----------



## Wiljen (Jun 27, 2018)

I find Spin-fits, KZ Star-lines, Foams (Comply), and the occasional Spiral-dot cover pretty much the gamut of tips for me.  If I cant find one in those 4 that works, chances are tip-rolling any further is not going to yield any miracles.


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 26, 2018)

Well, it's been a while and I think I've had enough time to form an opinion on the ZS10 and ES4.

Both are almost identical in size, but the nozzle on the ES4 is a little longer, which I think helps with the fit and seal.

Sound-wise, I don't hear much of a sonic benefit to the ZS10's additional drivers over the ES4. Tuning on the ES4 is a little less fatiguing as well and I find there isn't the same amount of energy in the ZS10 in comparison. Now that the DDs in each have relaxed a bit from play, the ES4 pushes ahead in terms of managing bass and midbass; due to the ZS10's relatively heavy midbass bleed, things can get muddy fast without EQ. Both really benefit from a drop in both the midbass and upper treble.

Between the two, the ES4 makes more sense for me as I'll use my Monoprice M300 for anything with just dialog. I'll run the full gamut of 1More's app on the ZS10 and see if my impressions don't change.

On the subject of comparing KZ to higher price brackets, it's a silly comparison when you think that, after purchase, you're not putting dollar signs in your ear. I've gone through a lot of pairs of IEMs (though @crinacle still takes the cake) and feel comfortable saying that both of the KZs I've tried perform well, but each still has its shortcomings.

On the TRN BT3, the ZS10 just fall apart. They really need more juice than what the BT3 provides. The ES4 fare much better, though both excel when I run them through a Xduoo X3.

Also, I've ordered the ED16 based on feedback here and for my own curiosity, am still waiting on the ZS6 to arrive, and also managed to snag a pair of iSine 10 and these babies for a song:



Spoiler









These Massdrop X are pretty fantastic, too. Maybe not as organic-feeling as an EQed ES4 has been for me, but the isolation is leagues better. I think it's going to end up being pretty heavily used.


----------



## CoiL

Just got my Burson Audio V5i-D dual-opamps along with KZ ES4 (teal with no-mic cable) and I have to say - this is unique sounding KZ IEM that KZ hasn`t done before.
I have listened them only about 30min (with Auvio S size wide-bore tips) and here are some shot notes:
* Imho, best looking and quality made shells from KZ.
* Size is little larger than IT01 but very similar fit. Only difference is that ES4 shells are thicker and reach out7over earlobes little.
* I find nozzle angle relative to cable angle (angled ends) spot-on.
* cable changing to lower impedance doesn`t help to improve sound. Stock brown braided cable is totally ok.
* sound quality (especially clarity& details) is night&day between IT01. IT01 is way higher league.
* soundstage is great.
* imaging is great.
* details are quite good.
* missing some micro-details.
* mids are pretty much great. Never heard such mids (especially low-mids) from another KZ.
* bass is nicely balanced between sub-bass and mid-bass - no boomyness or overshadowing other frequencies.
* most vivid and smooth highs from KZs I`ve heard.
* overall very nicely balanced little warmish-tilted sound - totally fatique free.
* low-impedance output source and loads of amping doesn`t seem to improve sound quality.
* decays/reverbs are pretty much great.
* requires average or little above listening volume. Not so great at low volume.

....seems a great IEM? Well... yes & no. Yes because it would be PERFECT for youngsters/kids/childs who listen lot of V-shaped/oriented music whom hearing every parent
would like to preserve! Even at high volume! Sounds crazy but this is the only chi-fi hybrid I would give to my child (and probably will if she grows more).
Now the bad part - it is hard to describe but somehow whole sound of ES4 seems to be covered with somekind of haze/fog/blanket or whatever I would call it.
It misses lot of micro-detail and guitar riffs sound somewhat muddy due to that. I suspect it has lot to do with "crossover" resistors and modding nozzle/vents/grills wont help much.
It like it could use some highs by-pass caps/resistors to sound right and wake up clarity/micro-details within whole fr. 
I don`t know it You get what I`m trying to say.

Anyway, this is special KZ IEM and I actually recommend to buy it (especially for parents who care about their child hearing but wish to give them good sq).

Now, I`m quite busy with all other things but will try to see what I can do by modding ES4 to improve it and test some resistors (or without).
Will post pic from my ES4 alongside with IT01 mod soon. ES4 is darn beautiful!
But it makes me wonder how the hell ZS10 would fit to anyones ears? O_o ES4 is max size my small ears could take.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I find Spin-fits, KZ Star-lines, Foams (Comply), and the occasional Spiral-dot cover pretty much the gamut of tips for me.  If I cant find on in those 4 that works, chances are tip-rolling any further is not going to yield any miracles.



Auvio wide bores should be on that list for sure.


----------



## neo_styles

CoiL said:


> Now the bad part - it is hard to describe but somehow whole sound of ES4 seems to be covered with somekind of haze/fog/blanket or whatever I would call it.
> It misses lot of micro-detail and guitar riffs sound somewhat muddy due to that. I suspect it has lot to do with "crossover" resistors and modding nozzle/vents/grills wont help much.
> It like it could use some highs by-pass caps/resistors to sound right and wake up clarity/micro-details within whole fr.


I can echo this and it's what immediately stuck out to me when I got the Noble X. Where the ES4 feels like there's _some_ detail there, the Noble X will turn a tone into a twang on guitars. The ES4 does have a bit of a veil, but I think that's inherent to most pairs of IEMs that get classified anywhere close to "warm" or "laid back."


----------



## dhruvmeena96

The best narrow bore is Final E series eartip.

Does the work of spinfit and Sony eartip but more cleaner and more source original (spinfit tapered horn structure changes sound by a lot of factor).


----------



## dhruvmeena96

neo_styles said:


> I can echo this and it's what immediately stuck out to me when I got the Noble X. Where the ES4 feels like there's _some_ detail there, the Noble X will turn a tone into a twang on guitars. The ES4 does have a bit of a veil, but I think that's inherent to most pairs of IEMs that get classified anywhere close to "warm" or "laid back."


You cannot expect from a Chinese BA....

If you want to compare to Noble X, go compare it04(Chinese company)


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Auvio wide bores should be on that list for sure.



Havent tried those yet, the spiral dots have done the wide bore duty thus far.


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 26, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> You cannot expect from a Chinese BA....


Why not just compare it to the ES4? They're both IEMs and the Noble X still has a double-BA config in about the same size casing as a ZS10 (maybe a little narrower). Might not be a Knowles driver, but this still leans more towards an apples-to-apples comparison. The X is also supposed to be tuned towards the Django, which would be pretty close to the ES4's target. They're not that different, but the Noble X has just a bit more sparkle at the sacrifice of low-end extension.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> Havent tried those yet, the spiral dots have done the wide bore duty thus far.



Hard to argue with 3 pairs for $1


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Hard to argue with 3 pairs for $1



where are you getting that price?


----------



## Slater (Jun 26, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> where are you getting that price?



RadioShack.com

They’re actually even cheaper with 15% off coupon code (RADIO15).

They have S and L 3-packs left at the $1 price.

The SML combo pack are $1.50, which is still totally worth it. You can often find a coworker or local member (that wears a different size than you) to split the 3-packs with.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> RadioShack.com
> 
> They’re actually even cheaper with 15% off coupon (RADIO15).
> 
> ...


Talking about these?

https://www.radioshack.com/products/auvio-silicone-replace-tips-large

Also, I really dug putting the double-flange tips that came with my Hifiman RE-400. Super easy to get a good seal and it stayed in place pretty easily on both of my KZs.


----------



## Slater (Jun 27, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Talking about these?
> 
> https://www.radioshack.com/products/auvio-silicone-replace-tips-large



Yup. There’s also a S-only version, as well as a SML combo pack.

The additional advantages, besides being wide bore, are as follows:

1. They’re the same size and shape as Starlines (except with a wide bore). So if the Starlines fit you well, the Auvios will fit just as well. Compared to other tips, the Starlines (and Auvios) are kind of “in-between” sizes compared to some other tips.

2. They have the same diameter core as Starlines, so they fit IEMs better and tighter vs other common wide bore tips (ie Tennmak/KZ Turbo/Whirlwind). No worry about them falling off ZS6, ZS5, etc.

3. They core has a similar length as Starlines, so they allow a deep insertion (resulting in a better seal). Other wide bore tips (ie Tennmak/KZ Turbo/Whirlwind) have a much shorter core, which causes a poor/shallow seal on many IEMs.

4. You can stuff them with foam and make your own hybrid tips. You can’t do that with Tennmak/KZ Turbo/Whirlwind tips.


----------



## neo_styles (Jun 26, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yup. There’s also a S-only version, as well as a SML combo pack.
> 
> The additional advantages, besides being wide bore, are as follows:
> 
> ...


Sounds great. Picked up two sets of the large, which came out to just north of 5 bucks shipped. Might be a nice alternative to the CP100 which seem to slide out of my ear canals if I'm moving about. The CP240 don't have that issue, but they are a narrower bore.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Sounds great. Picked up two pairs of the large, which came out to just north of 5 bucks before shipping. Might be a nice alternative to the CP100 which seem to slide out of my ear canals if I'm moving about. The CP240 don't have that issue, but they are a narrower bore.



2 packs at $0.85 each is just north of $5 *before* shipping? Hmmm, that doesn’t sound right. What currency did you use? And did you use the coupon code?


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> 2 packs at $0.85 each is just north of $5 *before* shipping? Hmmm, that doesn’t sound right. What currency did you use? And did you use the coupon code?


USD, used the coupon code, but shipping was 3 bucks and my order was taxed. Fixing my typo.


----------



## FastAndClean

when the flagship is gonna be on aliexpress?


----------



## Slater (Jun 26, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> The details on the MID to high are cleaner and clearer as in the older version it wasn't all there and just meh?. The old version had a little too much bass for me. The new version fixes that up to a "T". They've changed the frequency specs since then as well. I can't tell you if it's a different driver, or not, but since trying the older version with the newer version, it's a no brainer and since then I have gotten' rid of my old one and gifted them.
> 
> Who ever gets them might want to double check that the frequency spec reads 20~22,000hz, not 20~20,000hz. Or, confirm it with the online store that it's coming from their newest batch sent from KZ.



My HD9 showed up, and unfortunately it was the v1. Way too bassy and dark for me. Mids are also veiled.

Oddly, it came with black Starline tips, which seems odd for being the old v1 version.

Luckily I only paid $3 for it, so it’s not that big of a deal. If I don’t reuse the shell for something, I’ll just gift it.

I haven’t decided if I’m going to try again and hope I get the better-sounding v2, or just cut my losses.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Thought I'd check in with an update on my ED16 now I've had them for a bit. 

Bit peed off that I can literally only use one style of tip on these, being a Sony hybrid type thing in a large. 
Absolutely no other tips will seal, which is a pity as isolation is probably among the worst out of my collection, but hey ho swings and roundabouts I guess, Just a tad annoying. 
And I'm still not sold on the shell design, way to sharp at the bottom. 
Be careful putting these in as they can hurt.  

I've noticed with these the more time I've spent with them that some songs can sound a touch boring....not that being a bad thing as it could be the recording, but these definitely benefit from a warm sounding player. 
Not that they are bright in anyway either, but as they are somewhat balanced and tend to be a touch on the "Cold" side, the warmer player helps them to shine, For me anyway. 

The bass is nice tight and punchy and goes deep when needed.  
Mids are full clear and full of detail. 
The treble is nice and detailed too with a lititle roll off and not fatiguing In any way.
Actually you could certainly use these as a stage monitor for sure, they are very suited for this. 

All in all I'm quite pleased with them, most definitely better than my ZSR by quite some way, and a very pleasant musical sounding monitor.


----------



## KainHighwind

Is there any difference between comply foam and those cheap foam tips on Aliexpress? Does comply sound better than those cheap foam?


----------



## Aparker2005

Alright almost July. Where's our 16 driver lol


----------



## dhruvmeena96

KainHighwind said:


> Is there any difference between comply foam and those cheap foam tips on Aliexpress? Does comply sound better than those cheap foam?


Sort of yes.

Comply foam type is a company secret and it dampens earphone toward open field curve.

Other brands can dampen more or less, boarseman foam damps less, TinAudio damps less.

OK the best foam you can get

1. Comply
2. Tekfusion Kingtips
3. Signature acoustic foam
4. New Bee

Because these 4 damps the same amount of peaks


----------



## Slater (Jun 26, 2018)

KainHighwind said:


> Is there any difference between comply foam and those cheap foam tips on Aliexpress? Does comply sound better than those cheap foam?



IMO it’s more important to get a better FIT from whatever tip you’re using, than to have the “right type of foam” from this or that company.

I’ve tried numerous different models of Comply, New Bee, KZ, Tin Audio, multiple generic brands, etc as well as every foam tip I’ve ever received with an IEM.

My favorite? The “ball” type from Aliexpress.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jun 27, 2018)

Slater said:


> My HD9 showed up, and unfortunately it was the v1. *Way too bassy and dark for me. Mids are also veiled*.
> 
> Oddly, it came with black Starline tips, which seems odd for being the old v1 version.
> 
> ...


Yea, it seems that aliexpress is still selling-off the old version. Maybe still getting rid of old stock? Here in China, they're selling the one that shows the 20~22,000hz frequency response on the package with the starline tips. Bass is great and the mids and highs are bright, but accurate with very nice details, not veil like the old version.


----------



## ViperScull

Hey guys. Coming back to you as always for advice. 
I lost my ED9s, so I wanted to get a new pair. Anything new that offers a lot of bang for the buck?
And I also wanted to get a pair of in-ear bluetooth earphones for sport, but I haven't seen anything from Kz. Xiaomi has a pair that might be ok. Any recommendations?
Thanks guys!


----------



## Dickymint

Slater said:


> IMO it’s more important to get a better FIT from whatever tip you’re using, than to have the “right type of foam” from this or that company.
> 
> I’ve tried numerous different models of Comply, New Bee, KZ, Tin Audio, multiple generic brands, etc as well as every foam tip I’ve ever received with an IEM.
> 
> My favorite? The “ball” type from Aliexpress.


+1, they seem to fit everything and seal wonderfully without hurting!


----------



## Dickymint

ViperScull said:


> Hey guys. Coming back to you as always for advice.
> I lost my ED9s, so I wanted to get a new pair. Anything new that offers a lot of bang for the buck?
> And I also wanted to get a pair of in-ear bluetooth earphones for sport, but I haven't seen anything from Kz. Xiaomi has a pair that might be ok. Any recommendations?
> Thanks guys!


ZSA or ZS10. Both great.


----------



## ViperScull

Dickymint said:


> ZSA or ZS10. Both great.


I'll go for the ZSA then, ZS10 are a bit too pricey for me. Thanks!


----------



## CoiL (Jun 27, 2018)

Some more notes about ES4 - it has similar sound signature to Magaosi BK50 but latter is more clear and detailed but with looser lower end. It`s funny but more I listen to ES4, the more I belive that it is not hybrid IEM.
KZ got the coherency very good with ES4 but like I described before, it has somekind of "blanket" over whole FR. Missing some clarity, micro details and resolution.
But the more You listen it, the more brain/ears adjusts and it gets somewhat better.
But as soon as I put on my modded IT01 - another planet (or supernova that wipes off ES4 planet from existence).


----------



## audionab

is there an aliexpress link to auvio wide bores M size tips?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Slater said:


> Yup. There’s also a S-only version, as well as a SML combo pack.
> 
> The additional advantages, besides being wide bore, are as follows:
> 
> ...


I got my Auvio tips, on recommendation from @Slater and like them a lot. In fact, I switched to using them on my T2. While I agree that their shape is very much the same as the Starline tips, there is one major difference between them. On the Starline the end of the stem is roughly level with the bottom, while the Auvio it ends about 1/4 of the way up. As a result the Auvio tip sits deeper and doesn't protrude as much. This means it places the drivers closer to the eardrum, which may be good or bad, but also that it sits better on shorter nozzles.


----------



## Tweeters

Hey @Slater, any EDR1 mods worth doing or is stock the way to go? Got them in yesterday and have been enjoying them with starline tips, even next to ES4


----------



## Slater

Tweeters said:


> Hey @Slater, any EDR1 mods worth doing or is stock the way to go? Got them in yesterday and have been enjoying them with starline tips, even next to ES4



The only mods I do to the EDR1 are swapping the stock tips for Starlines, and replacing the stock red nozzle mesh with a stainless mesh.


----------



## Slater (Jun 27, 2018)

audionab said:


> is there an aliexpress link to auvio wide bores M size tips?



Nope. Auvio is Radio Shack’s in-house audio brand. They are sold on the RadioShack.com website, or in many but not all remaining Radio Shack retail stores (ie in the USA).

You can also find them on eBay, but it’s just 3rd party people that bought them from Radio Shack and are reselling them on eBay (not that anything is wrong with that).

If you can’t get them in your country, your best option is to have a US-based HeadFier help you get them. That’s how a few non-US people have gotten theirs...

I would love to find out who is manufacturing them for Radio Shack. It’s gotta be someone in China obviously. But I haven’t come across those exact tips on Aliexpress (yet anyways). If I ever do, I’ll be sure to share the info!


----------



## Strat Rider

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Sort of yes.
> 
> Comply foam type is a company secret and it dampens earphone toward open field curve.
> 
> ...



I personally have been using the New Bee, when I use foamies, for me they last longer, and fit better than the Comply.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Strat Rider said:


> I personally have been using the New Bee, when I use foamies, for me they last longer, and fit better than the Comply.


I prefer tekfusion kingtips(workout) and signature acoustic tips(enjoyment)

Somewhat more softer(both of them) and way better damping(near to comply).

Tekfusion is like crystal tips, so sweat proof..

Sig acoustic is way softer new bee tips with comply like sound


----------



## Onik

Just got my KZ ES4 and ESR. Must say that I love the ESRs sound out of the box with my phone, it's crystal Clean, vocal is like Audiophile, Bass is good(sometimes bit too heavy)

But ES4 I don't know what's wrong? I tried it with my phone but compare to ESR it sound bloated not clean like ESR and bit muddy.

I read good reviews about ES4 but now thinking is it faulty or not? 

I tride it with my Headphone amp Walnut F1 and its just constant white noise,I think my headphone amp is also faulty.

Any suggestions on picking up the right portable Amp for IEMS?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 27, 2018)

Onik said:


> Just got my KZ ES4 and ESR. Must say that I love the ESRs sound out of the box with my phone, it's crystal Clean, vocal is like Audiophile, Bass is good(sometimes bit too heavy)
> 
> But ES4 I don't know what's wrong? I tried it with my phone but compare to ESR it sound bloated not clean like ESR and bit muddy.
> 
> ...



By ESR do you mean ZSR?

Edit: Walnut F1 isn't great with sensitive iems. It's meant for use with higher impedance devices.


----------



## Onik

B9Scrambler said:


> By ESR do you mean ZSR?



SORRY YES 

*ZSR


----------



## B9Scrambler

Onik said:


> SORRY YES
> 
> *ZSR



Cool, thought so. KZs naming conventions can be quite convoluted, haha


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I got my Auvio tips, on recommendation from @Slater and like them a lot. In fact, I switched to using them on my T2. While I agree that their shape is very much the same as the Starline tips, there is one major difference between them. On the Starline the end of the stem is roughly level with the bottom, while the Auvio it ends about 1/4 of the way up. As a result the Auvio tip sits deeper and doesn't protrude as much. This means it places the drivers closer to the eardrum, which may be good or bad, but also that it sits better on shorter nozzles.



Looks like I might need some of these now. Thanks for the observation and consequent write up. Some iems sound really good up close and personal.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Onik said:


> Just got my KZ ES4 and ESR. Must say that I love the ESRs sound out of the box with my phone, it's crystal Clean, vocal is like Audiophile, Bass is good(sometimes bit too heavy)
> 
> But ES4 I don't know what's wrong? I tried it with my phone but compare to ESR it sound bloated not clean like ESR and bit muddy.
> 
> ...



Yeah I've got the ES4 too and yes they are very muddy and congested. Definitely not faulty, although others may like the sound sig. 
I really can't stand them to be honest.
The ED16 which i got the day after are much better, Actually I prefer the ED12 to the ES4, now there's a thing.....


----------



## Onik

monitoringsound70 said:


> Yeah I've got the ES4 too and yes they are very muddy and congested. Definitely not faulty, although others may like the sound sig.
> I really can't stand them to be honest.
> The ED16 which i got the day after are much better, Actually I prefer the ED12 to the ES4, now there's a thing.....



Good to know, if you compare ZSR with ES4 it's like night and day difference.

This is my first time I'm trying IEMS and just for £20 ZSR is surprisingly beautiful sounding iems ever made imo.

I think the ES4 needs proper burnin then it might open up the sound, for now I think I just wasted my £10 lol.

I'm now waiting for my XDUOO XD05 then ill find out how they really perform with good headphone amps, I will post my impression soon.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Ran through a few songs with a fellow Head-fi'ers ES4 this evening. Not bad, but I'm glad I passed. I agree with Coil in that they sound veiled. Not muddy and congested, just lacking the unimpeded resolution of other KZ hybrids. I could live with that but the mid-bass was overblown as well. For me it falls into the same middle-of-the-road category as the ZSE. Decent but not particularly memorable. Comfortable though!


----------



## monitoringsound70

Onik said:


> Good to know, if you compare ZSR with ES4 it's like night and day difference.
> 
> This is my first time I'm trying IEMS and just for £20 ZSR is surprisingly beautiful sounding iems ever made imo.



Yes they are nice. 
If you think the ZSR is good you should try the ED16, It's even better and more refined.


----------



## Slater (Jun 27, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I got my Auvio tips, on recommendation from @Slater and like them a lot. In fact, I switched to using them on my T2. While I agree that their shape is very much the same as the Starline tips, there is one major difference between them. On the Starline the end of the stem is roughly level with the bottom, while the Auvio it ends about 1/4 of the way up. As a result the Auvio tip sits deeper and doesn't protrude as much. This means it places the drivers closer to the eardrum, which may be good or bad, but also that it sits better on shorter nozzles.



BTW, thanks for the tip on using the Auvios on the T2. The T2 fits much more secure this way, and sounds great! I prefer the Auvios better than the included wide bore tips.

I think I’m going to go back through my collection of KZs and tip roll with the Auvios. I have Starlines on most KZs now, but I wanna see if any of them can be further improved with Auvios, since I didn’t have Auvios at the time. I’m thinking they might work well on quite a few


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Onik said:


> Good to know, if you compare ZSR with ES4 it's like night and day difference.
> 
> This is my first time I'm trying IEMS and just for £20 ZSR is surprisingly beautiful sounding iems ever made imo.
> 
> ...


That is due to armature doing mids in ZSR, go try ED16.

ES4 is under QC issue, and some people are getting under damped Q factor Balanced armature leading to lower mids being cleaner and upper mids being loose, creating blurry nature.

ES4 is respected because of natural representation and not technicality. ES4 technically is better controlled on Bass and mids with lower treble compared to ZST and ES3 .. 

It can make people hear muddyness as high treble range is lowered but using a decent source and sweetspot volume does help...

ZSR and ED16 is more vibrant and clear(agreed) but the dips in 4kHz make them cavernous(you may like it or not, but still)


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> BTW, thanks for the tip on using the Auvios on the T2. The T2 fits much more secure this way, and sounds great!


I heard westone starfit with the wider stem is the best tip for isolation


----------



## Danfish98

mbwilson111 said:


> I changed the tips on my KZ10 as I was having a problem getting deep enough insertion but I can't stand double or triple flange ... or foams.  I found this pair among our millions of tips.  The only one that has the sleeve part (the red part in the photo) protruding below the rest of the tip.  I hope this makes sense.  It helps the tip go in farther and it was comfortable and sounded really good.  Only problem is, I have no idea what these tips are so that I can get more.  They probably came with some other iem but I have too many.  Does anyone recognize this type or have a link to something similar?



Sorry to bump such an old post but I just got what look to be the same tips off of Ali. Set of 3 pairs was 75 cents and I had the exact same experience. Made my ZS10s a lot more comfortable and greatly increased the sub bass response. I'd post a link but I think it's from a banned seller.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Danfish98 said:


> Sorry to bump such an old post but I just got what look to be the same tips off of Ali. Set of 3 pairs was 75 cents and I had the exact same experience. Made my ZS10s a lot more comfortable and greatly increased the sub bass response. I'd post a link but I think it's from a banned seller.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wot...94d3-4228-b8d7-ee873554e547&priceBeautifyAB=0

Looks like those ones?  That's from AK Audio store which we are allowed to post i think.


----------



## mbwilson111

SuperLuigi said:


> Looks like those ones?  That's from ... store which we are allowed to post i think.



Actually that is the same company I have been told.  I looked at the photos... it is not the same as the one in my photo. If you look carefully at mine you will see that the red stem sticks out beyond the bottom of the grey silicone.  In this one from ali the red stem is completely inside the grey part.   I have about a million of these   Mine are in the second photo.  I only have the one pair and have no idea where they came from.


----------



## HonorKirin

I have ZSE, ED9(black), and a Swing IE800; I like the Swing and ED9 a lot (ZSE sounds too dark for my liking, but I still use it for sleeping due to its form factor). Im looking to purchase the ES4 or ED16 now as Im looking for something which provides better sound insulation for daily commuting use, and I wonder if these IEMs have better than average sound insulation versus those wear down type? Currently using IE800 for daily commuting use as ZSE and ED9 with their open back design seems to introduce more environment sound. Thanks if anyone can answer my question.


----------



## Bartig (Jun 28, 2018)

monitoringsound70 said:


> Thought I'd check in with an update on my ED16 now I've had them for a bit.
> 
> Bit peed off that I can literally only use one style of tip on these, being a Sony hybrid type thing in a large.
> Absolutely no other tips will seal, which is a pity as isolation is probably among the worst out of my collection, but hey ho swings and roundabouts I guess, Just a tad annoying.
> ...


Funny. I received my ED16 yesterday and after the first hours of listening, I don't think they're definitely better than the ZSR. The sound may be more balanced, but the highs are also rolled off more and there's a bit less pronunciation to the music, I think. Less spacious, less instrumental separation. The ZSR just had 'it' when I first put them in, the ED16 didn't.



Onik said:


> Good to know, if you compare ZSR with ES4 it's like night and day difference.
> 
> This is my first time I'm trying IEMS and just for £20 ZSR is surprisingly beautiful sounding iems ever made imo.
> 
> ...


When I first put the ZSR in and there wasn't much praise for them, I thought: time will tell how good these are. It's already coming. 

As for the ES4: they're decent. I'm afraid I may think the same of the ED16. But let's give it some more tracks...


----------



## maxxevv

Bartig said:


> Funny. I received my ED16 yesterday and after the first hours of listening, I don't think they're definitely better than the ZSR. The sound may be more balanced, but the highs are also rolled off more and there's a bit less pronunciation to the music, I think. Less spacious, less instrumental separation. The ZSR just had 'it' when I first put them in, the ED16 didn't.



Same here, they didn't impress me on the first few hours of listen.  And they seemed a little bit sibilant. 

Shall put them on burn-in over the weekend and see if there's any difference.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

OK...

Well I noticed a trend in KZ.

Coming from Bass side IEM, they thought trebly is new market and shooting all high red...they released ZST (which still had KZ bass). They moved the treble region up on frequency and dB overkill to pass CE High Red standard (not Japan society, they both have same logo....and KZ didn't opt for certification as the price would have gone higher).

Now they are moving towards balanced and studio approach slowly from ES4 and ED16 and ZSA....something which can be really called HiFi..

The guy who compared Noble X to ES4...bro, are you fool(no offence)....noble X is full BA, plus it is Knowles BA and not KZ or Bellsing BA... I worked with sonion and I know those crazy parameters that sonion and Knowles use which Bellsing or KZ can't even reach...

That twang of guitar was due to very tight response and correct BA impulse(noble is very good at it) which create a harmonic reverberation (fundamental tone) which dynamic can't do...

Well, let's see what KZ throws at us after this generation...


----------



## deaftpunk

well damn, after all the ES4 praise and hype I had jumped the gun and ordered one, now people are calling it muddy and mediocre I hope it exceeds my expectations, I'll tell you guys if it beats my trn v20's


----------



## Mellowship

deaftpunk said:


> well damn, after all the ES4 praise and hype I had jumped the gun and ordered one, now people are calling it muddy and mediocre I hope it exceeds my expectations, I'll tell you guys if it beats my trn v20's



Chronic problem with KZ appreciations around here: the hype is high, the following impressions aren't. I'm so glad I haven't bought any KZ since I got hold of two ZS5 mk1...


----------



## Qualcheduno

deaftpunk said:


> well damn, after all the ES4 praise and hype I had jumped the gun and ordered one, now people are calling it muddy and mediocre I hope it exceeds my expectations, I'll tell you guys if it beats my trn v20's


Rule of thumb with chi-fi: always wait at least one month after the first impressions.


----------



## KainHighwind

deaftpunk said:


> well damn, after all the ES4 praise and hype I had jumped the gun and ordered one, now people are calling it muddy and mediocre I hope it exceeds my expectations, I'll tell you guys if it beats my trn v20's



I think it depends on the taste, some people said ZSR is very piercing, but some said it is good, I have ES4 and think it's good, better than my ZS5v2, bass is full and punchy, no piercing treble.


----------



## mbwilson111

Qualcheduno said:


> Rule of thumb with chi-fi: always wait at least one month after the first impressions.



Except for some of us who like to check out new things and be among the first to provide those impressions.  Someone has to give those first impressions  But, yes, wait if money is tight or you don't want to have many too iems cluttering up your house... and your life...lol.


----------



## monitoringsound70

HonorKirin said:


> I have ZSE, ED9(black), and a Swing IE800; I like the Swing and ED9 a lot (ZSE sounds too dark for my liking, but I still use it for sleeping due to its form factor). Im looking to purchase the ES4 or ED16 now as Im looking for something which provides better sound insulation for daily commuting use, and I wonder if these IEMs have better than average sound insulation versus those wear down type? Currently using IE800 for daily commuting use as ZSE and ED9 with their open back design seems to introduce more environment sound. Thanks if anyone can answer my question.



Of the two The ES4 has much better isolation than the ED16, because the shell of the 4 is larger and fits flush in your ear. 
The 16 is much smaller and a weird shape, plus the nozzles are very short and so doesn't isolate as well. 
However the 16 is so much better sounding.


----------



## mbwilson111

monitoringsound70 said:


> Of the two The ES4 has much better isolation than the ED16, because the shell of the 4 is larger and fits flush in your ear.
> The 16 is much smaller and a weird shape, plus the nozzles are very short and so doesn't isolate as well.
> However the 16 is so much better sounding.



I agree with all of that.  Lucky for me that I don't care about isolation.  In fact, I really prefer less isolation... so I can hear the doorbell when the postman comes with more iems...


----------



## monitoringsound70

mbwilson111 said:


> I agree with all of that.  Lucky for me that I don't care about isolation.  In fact, I really prefer less isolation... so I can hear the doorbell when the postman comes with more iems...



LOL


----------



## fluteloop

Qualcheduno said:


> Rule of thumb with chi-fi: always wait at least one month after the first impressions.


 
I do this. My reasoning in my mind is because it takes about a month of casual listening for burn-in (which I am a devout believer in).


----------



## Danfish98

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually that is the same company I have been told.  I looked at the photos... it is not the same as the one in my photo. If you look carefully at mine you will see that the red stem sticks out beyond the bottom of the grey silicone.  In this one from ali the red stem is completely inside the grey part.   I have about a million of these   Mine are in the second photo.  I only have the one pair and have no idea where they came from.



Yep the first photo is what I got.


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ES4 is under QC issue, and some people are getting under damped Q factor Balanced armature leading to lower mids being cleaner and upper mids being loose, creating blurry nature.


Source? 
Should I get another ES4? I don`t want and I don`t belive I got faulty unit.


----------



## chechu21

Any colour in particular? I've ordered a black one.


----------



## chechu21

CoiL said:


> Source?
> Should I get another ES4? I don`t want and I don`t belive I got faulty unit.


Any colour in particular? I've ordered a black one.


----------



## mbwilson111

Danfish98 said:


> Yep the first photo is what I got.



I now know that the tips in my photo are Spinfits from a Dunu belonging to my husband.  He was not using them, because he had a custom thing done to his Dunu,  so they were in the huge case of tips.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> I now know that the tips in my photo are Spinfits from a Dunu belonging to my husband.  He was not using them, because he had a custom thing done to his Dunu,  so they were in the huge case of tips.



So I was right!!! HAHA! I'm not insane (completely...)


----------



## dhruvmeena96

That is what you expect from chinese


CoiL said:


> Source?
> Should I get another ES4? I don`t want and I don`t belive I got faulty unit.


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That is what you expect from chinese


Yeah, I know very well what to expect from chi-fi QC but where did Your information about ES4 BA issues came from?
I haven`t seen ppl mentioning that issue. Pretty much all ES4 reviews say same good (and bad) things.


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Jun 28, 2018)

I don't think there's any QC issues with the ES4. It's just a very unexpected sound from KZ. Full, fat mids. I use large bore tips with both of my ES4's and I like the treble I get. It's probably not for everyone tho. If you like an analytical sound, these are not for you. They don't lack detail in my opinion but they make their detail in the mids without forcefeeding treble to simulate detail. If the treble was boosted the detail in the mids would get lost. When I want a slightly thinner or airier sound, I go for my ED16. I like them both for different reasons. ES4 is a bit more intimate and warm and the ED16 is airier with less mid bass. I love the fast sub bass on the ED16. Very controlled and stays out of the mids. When I listen to more organic sounding music and don't want the sparkly treble to cover up the micro detail in the mids, my ES4 is great. Hope that helps someone.


----------



## b3vcard

I've had the KZ ATE and now the ZST Colourful for a while. Are there are current models that would be a worthy upgrade? There are so many models it is hard to keep track of them all now. I was thinking about the ZS10 but also the upcoming balanced armature-only model. Any suggestions?


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

b3vcard said:


> I've had the KZ ATE and now the ZST Colourful for a while. Are there are current models that would be a worthy upgrade? There are so many models it is hard to keep track of them all now. I was thinking about the ZS10 but also the upcoming balanced armature-only model. Any suggestions?


While the ZS10 has its fans, I don't think anyone who's compared it to another recent KZ would actually consider it superior. There's also a lot of people who hate their ZS10, I've repeatedly said I think it's the worst IEM I've heard because of how painful those upper mids are.

I haven't tried the ED16 yet but I think the ES4 is the best KZ I've tried. You can even buy both for less than the cost of the ZS10. The ED16 and ES4 will both sound better, be more comfortable, and if you have a clear preference you can just gift the other to someone else.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> Yeah, I know very well what to expect from chi-fi QC but where did Your information about ES4 BA issues came from?
> I haven`t seen ppl mentioning that issue. Pretty much all ES4 reviews say same good (and bad) things.


I meant to say, a possibility when somebody told us on thread that he was hearing something harsh


----------



## TheVortex

b3vcard said:


> I've had the KZ ATE and now the ZST Colourful for a while. Are there are current models that would be a worthy upgrade? There are so many models it is hard to keep track of them all now. I was thinking about the ZS10 but also the upcoming balanced armature-only model. Any suggestions?



I would recommend the ED16 as it's like the ZSR but more refined. I also own the ZS10 but the sheer size of it puts people off.


----------



## neo_styles

dhruvmeena96 said:


> The guy who compared Noble X to ES4...bro, are you fool(no offence)....noble X is full BA, plus it is Knowles BA and not KZ or Bellsing BA... I worked with sonion and I know those crazy parameters that sonion and Knowles use which Bellsing or KZ can't even reach...
> 
> That twang of guitar was due to very tight response and correct BA impulse(noble is very good at it) which create a harmonic reverberation (fundamental tone) which dynamic can't do...
> 
> Well, let's see what KZ throws at us after this generation...


I'm certainly no fool; I let my ears do the talking. We can also agree to disagree on whether my comparison between the two is valid. If I'm focusing on the differences in one particular element of the sound signature, I don't see that as overreaching criteria for comparison and when you compare signature to signature, there are a lot of similarities there. If you want to say the _reason_ behind differences in performance between the two is caused by component selection, I'm totally OK with that. To say I can _only_ compare one model against another particular model does absolutely no service to newcomers to this thread who might have that particular piece of equipment and want to know how it compares. There's no sense in playing brand bias; sound is sound, signatures are signatures.

As for the concerns over veils and midrange clarity, I do want to bring up that the ES4 is decently receptive to EQ. By setting each EQ band in Neutralizer to just above the lower threshold of hearing, my ears hear a significant reduction in bloom, which translates to a more natural timbre on physical instruments. Granted, I can't get anything audible on the 16 kHz band, but that could just be due to age and the hearing loss that comes with spending over a decade inside an engine room.


----------



## brideshead (Jun 28, 2018)

I've been looking into IEMs, and the KZs look rather promising. my girl is going to China soon, so I'm gonna have the opportunity to get some chi-fi.

i've got a question that research hasn't been able to answer, so I'm hoping one of y'all will be able to help me out.

I'm wondering how the KZs, in particular models like the ZS10, compare to soundmagic IEMs.

I ask this as I currently have e10s, and will be able to get the e50s or e80s easily as well as any model of KZ IEMs. I have the quad DAC LG G6, so I'll be able to make use of the high impedance in the soundmagics (so better sound I guess?), as well as drive the KZs easily. I'd really like to know how the ZS10s stack up against the e50 and e80 seeing as it's single vs multi driver, but any comparison between the brand's would be super helpful.

as far as sound signature preference goes, I like balanced headphones with a lot of detail and separation. I genre hop a lot, so I need an accurate IEM that suits a lot of genres. plus good instrument separation makes it easier to learn drum parts.

*TLDR*: _Soundmagic VS KZ, which is the brand to go with?_


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I meant to say, a possibility when somebody told us on thread that he was hearing something harsh


OK. Then there is no QC issue with ES4 atm. At least I haven`t seen contradicting reviews of it.
ES4 is still very good in cheapo-chi-fi-land and I still recommend it to everyone who have very sensitive hearing or for parents who wish to keep their kids hearing safe.
I will open up and play with resistors soon after I get chance to install V5i-D opamps to my modified Aune T1.
Freaking busy time with house building and baby O_o ;S


----------



## Bartig

MDH12AX7 said:


> I don't think there's any QC issues with the ES4. It's just a very unexpected sound from KZ. Full, fat mids. I use large bore tips with both of my ES4's and I like the treble I get. It's probably not for everyone tho. If you like an analytical sound, these are not for you. They don't lack detail in my opinion but they make their detail in the mids without forcefeeding treble to simulate detail. If the treble was boosted the detail in the mids would get lost. When I want a slightly thinner or airier sound, I go for my ED16. I like them both for different reasons. ES4 is a bit more intimate and warm and the ED16 is airier with less mid bass. I love the fast sub bass on the ED16. Very controlled and stays out of the mids. When I listen to more organic sounding music and don't want the sparkly treble to cover up the micro detail in the mids, my ES4 is great. Hope that helps someone.


Excellent description. However: you may need bigger than the normal sized tips to get the fit right enough and get this sound out of them. 



brideshead said:


> I've been looking into IEMs, and the KZs look rather promising. my girl is going to China soon, so I'm gonna have the opportunity to get some chi-fi.
> 
> i've got a question that research hasn't been able to answer, so I'm hoping one of y'all will be able to help me out.
> 
> ...


Tell you what: I fell in love with the KZ ATE as my first earphone after the E10. More details, separation and a lovely full, warm sound.

All of the new KZ's are technically better than the ATE. That should help a bit...


----------



## B9Scrambler

ZSA review from me to you over on The Contraptionist. Will port here later today.

https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/06/28/kz-zsa-true-budget-hi-fi/


  ​


----------



## neo_styles

B9Scrambler said:


> ZSA review from me to you over on The Contraptionist. Will port here later today.
> 
> https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/06/28/kz-zsa-true-budget-hi-fi/
> 
> ​


Stellar writeup. She really is a looker, too.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 28, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> I don't think there's any QC issues with the ES4. It's just a very unexpected sound from KZ. Full, fat mids. I use large bore tips with both of my ES4's and I like the treble I get. It's probably not for everyone tho. If you like an analytical sound, these are not for you. They don't lack detail in my opinion but they make their detail in the mids without forcefeeding treble to simulate detail. If the treble was boosted the detail in the mids would get lost. When I want a slightly thinner or airier sound, I go for my ED16. I like them both for different reasons. ES4 is a bit more intimate and warm and the ED16 is airier with less mid bass. I love the fast sub bass on the ED16. Very controlled and stays out of the mids. When I listen to more organic sounding music and don't want the sparkly treble to cover up the micro detail in the mids, my ES4 is great. Hope that helps someone.


+1
ES4 doesn`t lack details but it lacks overall resolution and micro-details (with higher tier IEMs You`ll just hear it all but with ES4 you need to "search" those details, but they are there). Everything else about it is quite great actually. Very good option to "rest Your ears" from brighter/harsher signature IEMs.

Btw, I noticed just now that KZ advertises ES4 of having graphene film DD ?
Is it full graphene or somekind of graphene coating? 
From the sound of ES4 - I`m pretty sure it doesn`t have graphene DD as it sounds nothing like graphene DD should.


----------



## Strat Rider (Jun 28, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually that is the same company I have been told.  I looked at the photos... it is not the same as the one in my photo. If you look carefully at mine you will see that the red stem sticks out beyond the bottom of the grey silicone.  In this one from ali the red stem is completely inside the grey part.   I have about a million of these   Mine are in the second photo.  I only have the one pair and have no idea where they came from.



The long stem in the second picture may be what some need (myself included) to solve the shallow insertion (long nozzle) issues of the ZSR.


----------



## neo_styles

CoiL said:


> Btw, I noticed just now that KZ advertises ES4 of having graphene film DD ?
> Is it full graphene or somekind of graphene coating?
> From the sound of ES4 - I`m pretty sure it doesn`t have graphene DD as it sounds nothing like graphene DD should.


I think I remember seeing something about it only being graphene-coated.


----------



## CoiL

LMAO, with all the other things I`m doing I totally messed up with ES4 by plugging 2-pins in wrong way (btw they fit perfectly both ways) and it means they were out-of-phase!
Going to give them longer listen again right from now and share updated impressions tomorrow 
Anyway, they sound lot better when in-phase (seems out-of-phase affected mainly only DD).


----------



## neo_styles

CoiL said:


> LMAO, with all the other things I`m doing I totally messed up with ES4 by plugging 2-pins in wrong way (btw they fit perfectly both ways) and it means they were out-of-phase!
> Going to give them longer listen again right from now and share updated impressions tomorrow
> Anyway, they sound lot better when in-phase (seems out-of-phase affected mainly only DD).


I constantly deal with that when using aftermarket cables with the Noble X. Got too used to the keyed sockets from KZ's cables


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 28, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> The long stem may be what some need (myself also) to solve the shallow insertion issues of the ZSR.



Yes, that is why I put it on the ZS10. Good idea for the ZSR as well.  I think any of my iems with that type of housing could benefit from them.

I found out earlier today that it is a Spinfit.  Another headfier sent me a photo of the one from his Dunu and it looked exactly the same.

The one in my photo is from a Dunu belonging to my husband. He had custom tips made for that earphone so the Spinfit had been sitting in the big box of tips for a long time...long forgotten.

I just wish they cost less.  Found some on Aliexpress for about $5 each and ordered  one to try and have now ordered a couple more.  The one that arrived the other day from ali is being used on my Sunorm SE950.  I am not sure if it is exactly the same but the music sounds great  and my ears are comfortable.  The Spinfits on amazon are a lot more expensive.

My other alternative is to use large Starlines instead of my normal medium but that puts more pressure on my ear canal.  Spinfits are extremely comfortable. 

i will also be trying some of those Radio Shack tips soon... they might also be good for this style of iem.


----------



## Strat Rider (Jun 28, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Looks like I might need some of these now. Thanks for the observation and consequent write up. Some iems sound really good up close and personal.



I did not know RadioShack was still a thing. I ordered 2 pkg each of large and assortment.

Looking forward to rolling these through multiple iem.


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> LMAO, with all the other things I`m doing I totally messed up with ES4 by plugging 2-pins in wrong way (btw they fit perfectly both ways) and it means they were out-of-phase!
> Going to give them longer listen again right from now and share updated impressions tomorrow
> Anyway, they sound lot better when in-phase (seems out-of-phase affected mainly only DD).



...and that is why I have no idea what a ZSA should sound like.  It belongs to my husband but when it arrived he was on his way to work and let me have first listen while he was gone.  I thought it sounded horrible.  Suspected it was out of phase (cables were in correctly) and it turns out that it was wired out of phase.  Quick fix was to switch to a cable with a straight connecter so it could be flipped.  I have not yet bothered to try it again ...partly because it was a poor fit for me.  Oddly the smaller size left it feeling insecure and unsupported somehow.  Also hard for me to grasp it easily to position it.  I know it is meant to sound good but I have so many iems.  The KZs that I particularly like are the ED16 and the ZS10...and the ZSR...and the ZS6...and the ED9


----------



## MDH12AX7

CoiL said:


> LMAO, with all the other things I`m doing I totally messed up with ES4 by plugging 2-pins in wrong way (btw they fit perfectly both ways) and it means they were out-of-phase!
> Going to give them longer listen again right from now and share updated impressions tomorrow
> Anyway, they sound lot better when in-phase (seems out-of-phase affected mainly only DD).


Don't feel bad.... It's really easy to do on these in particular. I did the exact same thing at first as well. Plugged right in, so easily, even backwards. I can't even see them well enough to tell the difference.... Time for new glasses.


----------



## brideshead (Jun 28, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Tell you what: I fell in love with the KZ ATE as my first earphone after the E10. More details, separation and a lovely full, warm sound.
> 
> All of the new KZ's are technically better than the ATE. That should help a bit...



thanks pal

seems like if it was a huge jump from the E10 to be ATE, then to something like the ZS10 would be pretty astronomical.

seems like it might be bigger than the jump to e50 or e80. but ah, maybe not. a lot of people rave about the e80

if anyone has used the e50 or e80 and some KZs, do tell be your thoughts


----------



## mbwilson111

MDH12AX7 said:


> Don't feel bad.... It's really easy to do on these in particular. I did the exact same thing at first as well. Plugged right in, so easily, even backwards. I can't even see them well enough to tell the difference.... Time for new glasses.



I actually keep a lighted magnifying glass handy.


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and that is why I have no idea what a ZSA should sound like.  It belongs to my husband but when it arrived he was on his way to work and let me have first listen while he was gone.  I thought it sounded horrible.  Suspected it was out of phase (cables were in correctly) and it turns out that it was wired out of phase.  Quick fix was to switch to a cable with a straight connecter so it could be flipped.  I have not yet bothered to try it again ...partly because it was a poor fit for me.  Oddly the smaller size left it feeling insecure and unsupported somehow.  Also hard for me to grasp it easily to position it.  I know it is meant to sound good but I have so many iems.  The KZs that I particularly like are the ED16 and the ZS10...and the ZSR...and the ZS6...and the ED9


I have the same fit issues with the ZSA. It keeps loosing the seal over time even with huge tips. If you like the ZS6 then the ZSA might appeal to you. It sounds like it's in the same family as ZS6.


----------



## mbwilson111

MDH12AX7 said:


> I have the same fit issues with the ZSA. It keeps loosing the seal over time even with huge tips. If you like the ZS6 then the ZSA might appeal to you. It sounds like it's in the same family as ZS6.



No, as I explained above, the ZSA is not a comfortable fit for me... it just does not sit right.  Anyway, have you seen my list... lol.


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> ZSA review from me to you over on The Contraptionist. Will port here later today.
> 
> https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/06/28/kz-zsa-true-budget-hi-fi/
> 
> ​



1) Great review, B9!!
2) Looking forward to hearing these.
3) Looks like I'll be getting backups (....always do with the best KZ's).
4) Definitely share the sentiments regarding the company. 
5) Hoping the ED16 is as good as these.

Favorite pic.......


----------



## MDH12AX7

After recent posts about the ZSA and difficulties getting a good seal, I revisited them. None of my tips solved it for me. Finally, I flipped them over and wore them cable down. They seal great now. I didn't have to swap left for right to fit them though that works as well. These won't be a candidate for mobile use with the upside down fit but at least they seal now. They sound much better this way and stay sealed.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> +1
> ES4 doesn`t lack details but it lacks overall resolution and micro-details (with higher tier IEMs You`ll just hear it all but with ES4 you need to "search" those details, but they are there). Everything else about it is quite great actually. Very good option to "rest Your ears" from brighter/harsher signature IEMs.
> 
> Btw, I noticed just now that KZ advertises ES4 of having graphene film DD ?
> ...


Coating


----------



## Slater (Jun 28, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> After recent posts about the ZSA and difficulties getting a good seal, I revisited them. None of my tips solved it for me. Finally, I flipped them over and wore them cable down. They seal great now. I didn't have to swap left for right to fit them though that works as well. These won't be a candidate for mobile use with the upside down fit but at least they seal now. They sound much better this way and stay sealed.



On IEMs that have angled nozzles (and are designed to be worn up), the nozzles will be pointing the wrong direction when you wear them down.

That’s why you need to reverse the R and L sides; so the nozzles point the proper direction again.

It’s not an issue on IEMs with perfectly straight nozzles, but the ZSA has extremely angled nozzles as seen here:


----------



## MDH12AX7

Slater said:


> On IEMs that have angled nozzles (and are designed to be worn up), the nozzles will be pointing the wrong direction when you wear them down.
> 
> That’s why you need to reverse the R and L sides; so the nozzles point the proper direction again.
> 
> It’s not an issue on IEMs with perfectly straight nozzles, but the ZSA has extremely angled nozzles as seen here:


I understand what you are saying but the ZSA is so tiny that it hardly matters. The nozzle aligns with your ear canal either way and the iem just sticks out without touching your ear at all at least in my case.... I actually get a better seal without swapping sides for some reason. Something about that extreme nozzle angle just doesn't work for me otherwise. I know it's backwards with the vents facing behind me but it works. Maybe my ears are odd shaped.


----------



## MDH12AX7

I can insert it deeper this way without the shell bottoming out in my ear....


----------



## sino8r

Y'all are weird or must have tiny ears lol! The ZSA seals alot better than the ZS6 or ZS10. But alas, I have Dumbo ears


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Hello guys, I got my brainwavz jive refunded because of iPhone mic.

Now I have two options

KZ ED9(expensive here than mrp)
Brainwavz jive(less than half the price here)

They both are selling for 1k inr or 15usd here

Can anybody tell me which one is a right choice..

Well I am still favouring toward brainwavz due to the cover, comply tips and 36month pure warranty


----------



## Slater (Jun 28, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> I understand what you are saying but the ZSA is so tiny that it hardly matters. The nozzle aligns with your ear canal either way and the iem just sticks out without touching your ear at all at least in my case.... I actually get a better seal without swapping sides for some reason. Something about that extreme nozzle angle just doesn't work for me otherwise. I know it's backwards with the vents facing behind me but it works. Maybe my ears are odd shaped.





MDH12AX7 said:


> I can insert it deeper this way without the shell bottoming out in my ear....



Wow, looks like it fits well there buddy!

Hey whatever works, I always say


----------



## kimi7 (Jun 29, 2018)

I find the two zero ohm resistor in the KZ ES4 very interesting, does anyone have a circuit diagram?


----------



## Tooros

Hi All,

I need a cheap, good sounding set of earbuds for situations where I don't want to risk my more expensive options (like sleeping in etc - I have ruined so many pairs this way)
Seems like KZ might be a good option with the replaceable cables which are always the first point of failure.
I *think* having read many posts that the general consensuses would be the KZ-ZS6 but, before I jump on Ali-express - would you agree?


----------



## CoiL (Jun 29, 2018)

kimi7 said:


> I find the two zero ohm resistor in the KZ ES4 very interesting, does anyone have a circuit diagram?


It was explained already few pages back.

Edit: Btw, had a listen again with ES4 in-phase this time and it is pretty good. Though, IT01 is still another planet when it comes to micro-details, clarity and resolution.
But I think KZ has done great job with ES4 - best mids and most coherent sounding KZ I`ve heard.
i think I can do something about clarity improvement and slight mid-bass/lower-mids bleed


----------



## manjunath1915 (Jun 29, 2018)

I have kz zs5, kz es3, kz atr, and now kz es4.
My source is zte axon 7 which supposedly has output impedance of 63 ohm according to some reviewer.(many including me think its not true but its not low for sure)
The thing is i was very unsatisfied with bass response and volume, also treble and upper mids were harsh and sibilant on kz zs5 on my axon 7 but i used to love its quality on my lenovo vibe x3 lite.
Then i came to know it is due to impedance matching issue and wonky impedance curve of kz zs5.
But kz es4 among all produces good sound signature  probably due to its impedance of 25 ohm. but its details retrievalis less.
So if i want to use a good iem for my phone with good bass upfront female voice and cello and strings with good soundstage and detail which i should choose.I am a bit treble sensitive especially for hihats not much though.
My search finds are kz zs6 and ibasso it01.
Will they behave well on my source.
especially i am eyeing on it01 as many say its better than zs6


----------



## CoiL

manjunath1915 said:


> Then i came to know it is due to impedance matching issue and wonky impedance curve of kz zs5.


ZS5v1 requires lot of amping power (mA) and very low output-impedance to really "shine". But it has somewhat scooped-out/hollow mids (lower-mids). ES4 is much better in that.


manjunath1915 said:


> But kz es4 among all produces good sound signature  probably due to its impedance of 25 ohm. but its details retrievalis less.


ES4 could probably benefit littlebit from brightish source. Haven`t tried out myself yet.


manjunath1915 said:


> So if i want to use a good iem for my phone with good bass upfront female voice and cello and strings with good soundstage and detail which i should choose*.I am a bit treble sensitive especially for hihats* not much though.
> My search finds are kz zs6 and ibasso it01.


You can exclude ZS6 for sure regards that. IT01 has one of the best hi-hat/cymbals I`ve personally heard (especially if modded - they sound so lifelike!).
And if You add fact You`ll be listening them out of smartphone, then IT01 should be great if You are treble sensitive.


manjunath1915 said:


> especially i am eyeing on it01 as many say its better than zs6


That thing is sure imho. ZS6 can seduce with its "sparkle" but can`t stand against coherency of IT01.

Btw, have You tried wide-bore tips with ES4? Try and listen some time to let brain/ears adjust to ES4 "smooth" but yet detailed signature, maybe it will turn out to be great match for Your ears


----------



## Slater (Jun 29, 2018)

manjunath1915 said:


> My source is zte axon 7 which supposedly has output impedance of 63 ohm according to some reviewer.(many including me think its not true but its not low for sure)



I would be suspicious of that output impedance figure. Someone likely calculated it wrong or typed it wrong. 0.63ohm or 6.3ohm is much more believable.

63ohm is huge, and there wouldn’t really be a logical reason why it would need to be that high (if it is indeed 63ohm and not a mistake).


----------



## manjunath1915

Slater said:


> I would be suspicious of that output impedance figure. Someone likely calculated it wrong or typed it wrong. 0.63ohm or 6.3ohm is much more believable.
> 
> 63ohm is huge, and there wouldn’t really be a logical reason why it would need to be that high (if it is indeed 63ohm and not a mistake).


https://www.pcauthority.com.au/review/review-zte-axon-7-461350
i got only one source to get details of impedance


----------



## manjunath1915 (Jun 29, 2018)

CoiL said:


> ZS5v1 requires lot of amping power (mA) and very low output-impedance to really "shine". But it has somewhat scooped-out/hollow mids (lower-mids). ES4 is much better in that.
> 
> ES4 could probably benefit littlebit from brightish source. Haven`t tried out myself yet.
> 
> ...


any link for wide bore tips @ali or gearbest i am a quite newbie to headfi sorry could not go through all pages
so even on high impedance bright source it01 is a recommendation
is ibasso it01 that good and better than kz worthy of all praise for the price(i see almost all positive reviews)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2248#post-14306940
this says spiral dot is good?
kz es4 for 10usd vs ibasso it01 for 100 usd is there worthy difference in sound quality, detail and soundstage
is it01 must buy budget hifi iem so that its quality is not available at least in any other sub 200 usd iems


----------



## CoiL

manjunath1915 said:


> so even on high impedance bright source it01 is a recommendation
> is ibasso it01 that good and better than kz worthy of all praise for the price(i see almost all positive reviews)


Yes.


manjunath1915 said:


> kz es4 for 10usd vs ibasso it01 for 100 usd is there worthy difference in sound quality, detail and soundstage


SQ - yes.
Detail - yes.
Soundstage - similar, if You consider sound signature.
But it all depends on source gear sound signature and amping also.
Personally, I find paying extra 85$ for IT01 is worth every penny but at same time ES4 with proper gear match, wide-bore tips and removed nozzle grill is also very good choice. Actually, I`m starting to think that ES4 is best achieved complete package with coherent sound signature and good mids that KZ has to offer aside from all those V-shaped chi-fi tuned choices. 


manjunath1915 said:


> is it01 must buy budget hifi iem so that its quality is not available at least in any other sub 200 usd iems


Imho, IT01 is one of the must buy around 100$ (especially considering HQ cable and ergonomic fit) but there certainly are other great offerings between 100-200$ like TFZ King Pro, Hisenior B5+ and some others.
It all depends also about personal sound signature preferences. 
Maybe try to give us more insight what You are looking from sound and what You mainly listen? Do You have large/medium/small ears?


----------



## kimi7

CoiL said:


> It was explained already few pages back.
> 
> Edit: Btw, had a listen again with ES4 in-phase this time and it is pretty good. Though, IT01 is still another planet when it comes to micro-details, clarity and resolution.
> But I think KZ has done great job with ES4 - best mids and most coherent sounding KZ I`ve heard.
> i think I can do something about clarity improvement and slight mid-bass/lower-mids bleed



ok, I saw the Post #33469 but I didn't understand it so I asked for a diagram. Does it mean that each resistor acts as a fuse to limit current? In that case they will be just wired in series one to the BA one to the DD, right? thanks!


----------



## chickenmoon

manjunath1915 said:


> Is it01 must buy budget hifi iem so that its quality is not available at least in any other sub 200 usd iems



No, TFZ King Pro, Simgot EN700 Pro and Dunu Falcon-C for example are all better technically IMHO but the IT01 is still very good and likely the best you can get at its price point.


----------



## CoiL

kimi7 said:


> ok, I saw the Post #33469 but I didn't understand it so I asked for a diagram. Does it mean that each resistor acts as a fuse to limit current? In that case they will be just wired in series one to the BA one to the DD, right? thanks!


Something like that yes. I haven`t opened up my ES4 yet to tell exactly how that crossover is implemented. Will do if I get time.


----------



## C2thew

still no mention of the ZS4 eh?


----------



## Slater

manjunath1915 said:


> https://www.pcauthority.com.au/review/review-zte-axon-7-461350
> i got only one source to get details of impedance



Yeah, I read that. Doesn’t mean the guy is accurate.


----------



## Vilhelm

Now that I have a decent portable source (LG V10) I've been listening to my KZ ZST Pro's a lot, here are my impressions:

~ Clear and good sound quality, can listen on lower volume levels and still hear details well
~ Decent bass, these babies pack a punch but I would like much more sub-bass. Bass responds nicely to EQ. Great for trance but true bass heads want moar for sure
~ At times sound just a bit too bright to me but this can be fixed with EQ
~ Vocals could sound a bit better I think but definitely not complaining
~ Responds amazingly well to both my V10's Hifi DAC (unlike some cheaper headphones I've tried) and the equalizer
~ Sound doesn't seem to distort at all with the quite basic EQ settings I use






KZ ZST Pro's are amazing value for the money, I haven't listened to anything better at this price range. Recommend! 4/5


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 29, 2018)

Vilhelm said:


> Now that I have a decent portable source (LG V10) I've been listening to my KZ ZST Pro's a lot, here are my impressions:
> 
> ~ Clear and good sound quality, can listen on lower volume levels and still hear details well
> ~ Decent bass, these babies pack a punch but I would like much more sub-bass. Bass responds nicely to EQ. Great for trance but true bass heads want moar for sure
> ...



If you'd like more bass and don't mind sacrificing some of the ZST's "air-like" nature then check out KZ's ES3. 



 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/reviews

The ES3 is one of my daily drivers for relatively modern genres. 



Spoiler


----------



## Danfish98

I've been trying different tips and cords on my ES4 trying to figure out why my ears don't hear what others do and I think mine were wired out of phase. I flipped the connection on both sides and the sound improved. Better sub bass, less mid bass fuzz and more air in the highs. Fortunately I wear them down so a zs5 cable works perfectly.


----------



## neo_styles

Well...the KZs are getting shelved for a bit. These babies just came in:



Spoiler









Really special sound so far. Great for metal


----------



## pbui44

@neo_styles you will want the more-closed sound of the KZ eventually.  In the meantime, the iSine series is amongst the widest soundstages of any IEM.


----------



## neo_styles

pbui44 said:


> @neo_styles you will want the more-closed sound of the KZ eventually.  In the meantime, the iSine series is amongst the widest soundstages of any IEM.


Oh definitely. The only things these are replacing are my Monoprice M300. Still waiting on my ED16 and ZS6 to arrive, but I think they won't get here until mid-July.

Wide is a great way to explain it. I mean my HE-400i have a decent sense of space, but these take it a notch higher.


----------



## pbui44 (Jun 29, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Oh definitely. The only things these are replacing are my Monoprice M300. Still waiting on my ED16 and ZS6 to arrive, but I think they won't get here until mid-July.
> 
> Wide is a great way to explain it. I mean my HE-400i have a decent sense of space, but these take it a notch higher.



If you want to see how much higher, compare to both or also on your KZ with this live video recording with very airy-and-accurate audio of Tame Impala:


----------



## monitoringsound70

DocHoliday said:


> If you'd like more bass and don't mind sacrificing some of the ZST's "air-like" nature then check out KZ's ES3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed. I love these, great sound with a dancing treble.


----------



## TheVortex (Jun 29, 2018)

Been using the KZ ED16 all week and it is my favourite KZ so far. It has a balanced sound signature.




That cable is supposed to be silver 

The player is the Shanling M0 and I am really happy with it.


----------



## Adide

TheVortex said:


> Been using the KZ ED16 all week and it is my favourite KZ so far. It has a balanced sound signature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your cable crossed the ugliness threshold way beyond into the cool territory. It's pretty good looking.

Mine has scattered greenish spots like it's sick and about to die of something nasty. Quit buying kz cables all together after two attempts.

What do you know, perhaps patience it's a virtue after all .

KZ is teaching us all kind of stuff not just audio.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 29, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> Been using the KZ ED16 all week and it is my favourite KZ so far. It has a balanced sound signature.
> 
> 
> That cable is supposed to be silver


Typical cheapo "silver" tin-coated copper. No silver for sure.

Btw, any in-depth comparison between ES4 & ED16/ZS7 ?
I believe ES4 is "replacing" my modded ZS5v1 because of more coherency and balanced sound and becoming quietly my favourite KZ (without nozzle grills + wide-bore tips).


----------



## DocHoliday

CoiL said:


> Typical cheapo "silver" tin-coated copper. No silver for sure.
> 
> Btw, any in-depth comparison between ES4 & ED16/ZS7 ?
> I believe ES4 is "replacing" my modded ZS5v1 because of more coherency and balanced sound and becoming quietly my favourite KZ (without nozzle grills + wide-bore tips).



Wow! That really speaks volumes about the ES4 (w/o nozzle filters) when I consider how much you enjoy the ZS5(v1). 

Am I reaching too far if I conclude that "thus far" you probably appreciate the well-integrated presentation of a properly tuned single DD (iBasso IT01, ES4) as opposed to the separation and "divying up" of different frequencies that occurs in hybrid designs?


----------



## TheVortex

Adide said:


> Your cable crossed the ugliness threshold way beyond into the cool territory. It's pretty good looking.
> 
> Mine has scattered greenish spots like it's sick and about to die of something nasty. Quit buying kz cables all together after two attempts.
> 
> ...





CoiL said:


> Typical cheapo "silver" tin-coated copper. No silver for sure.
> 
> Btw, any in-depth comparison between ES4 & ED16/ZS7 ?
> I believe ES4 is "replacing" my modded ZS5v1 because of more coherency and balanced sound and becoming quietly my favourite KZ (without nozzle grills + wide-bore tips).



I have a few KZ cables but I just use these at my workplace. If they get snagged on something or damaged I will just use another cable. I am quite pleased withe the ED16, it has a great sound signature and is currently my favourite and I have a few KZ's haha.


----------



## Tweeters

CoiL said:


> Typical cheapo "silver" tin-coated copper. No silver for sure.
> 
> Btw, any in-depth comparison between ES4 & ED16/ZS7 ?
> I believe ES4 is "replacing" my modded ZS5v1 because of more coherency and balanced sound and becoming quietly my favourite KZ (without nozzle grills + wide-bore tips).



Just curious, any particular reason you prefer ES4 without the grills?


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 29, 2018)

Tweeters said:


> Just curious, any particular reason you prefer ES4 without the grills?



Nozzle filters are great as a barrier for earwax but they can also effect frequencies below 500hz in a negative way.  I usually remove the nozzle filters on warmer-leaning IEMs to clean up the low end and lower midrange. For me, a simple rule-of-thumb is that the cleaner the lower half of the spectrum is the more breathing room there is for the upper half of the spectrum. My ZS3 and ES3 have "no" nozzle filters and they both sound cleaner and richer than they do in stock form.


----------



## Slater (Jun 30, 2018)

Adide said:


> Quit buying kz cables all together after two attempts.



The dark grey KZ upgrade cables are a-ok


----------



## CoiL (Jun 30, 2018)

stryed said:


> I just wish the  IT01 had slightly more soundstage.


Mod Your IT01 


Tweeters said:


> Just curious, any particular reason you prefer ES4 without the grills?


I can not agree about "clearing up things" only below 500Hz... it affects whole spectrum depending on IEM signature and build.
I just wished more clarity&resolution from ES4, that`s why I removed it but effect is questionable as I don`t hear much improvement (grill is quite "open" anyway).


----------



## Dickymint

Last night I dug out my ZSA, not used it for a while, so connected to my Fiio X7 while stripping down an old Thorens TD126 for refurb. Just let the music play and forgot about what I was listening to, the first album was IO Earth, their latest album and I thought something had gone wrong initially as I had a constant hum on one track but it turns out that it was on the track itself and man was it low, I had to stop a few times and concentrate just to be sure, the next track started the same, then the note changed and the whole track began to drive into this really low bass sound, it was fantastic, never heard it before. The next album that came on was Jean Michel Jarre, Essentials, a lot of different tracks, a lot of older tracks that I thought I knew well, the answer there is no I didn't! Nuances, extra instruments, things I thought were a single instrument turns out to be several and the layering is amazing, this little ZSA is a gem when connected to something that can dig deep  into the music, I am amazed!


----------



## HonorKirin

I'm concerned that, are the eartips on ED16 gonna come off easily, as they dont have the lip around the nozzles. This makes me feel like avoiding the ED16 and get the ES4 instead, or I shall continue to wait for newer KZs below 20$.


----------



## TheVortex

HonorKirin said:


> I'm concerned that, are the eartips on ED16 gonna come off easily, as they dont have the lip around the nozzles. This makes me feel like avoiding the ED16 and get the ES4 instead, or I shall continue to wait for newer KZs below 20$.



There is no lip but they are on there very securely. They won't come off very easily at all.


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jun 30, 2018)

The black KZ ES4 w/o mic are now available for 12.53 USD on Gearbest. The price can be further reduced with GB points to 10.74 USD, with the cheapest registered shipping method. It's even less with unregistered shipping (0.44 USD). Sounds like a good deal to me.


----------



## nxnje

Yo guys,
i'm still really confused. I would really love the zsr, people are saying they have a huge soundstage, very very deep bass, much warm response overall.. i listen to trap/dubstep/future bass/edm and even melodical stuff with vocals.. so i think that could be a perfect headphone for me but i'm really confused.. i found my zs3 too big for me and i've read everywhere the zsr is enormous..

I've seen the ZSA has heavy bass and it's small so maybe it would fit well to me but i even see es4 has many positive reviews and it's more accurate that zsa.
What do u think?
I've read many disappointing comments about the zsa, people on reddit says it's not comparable to the es4 in terms of detail and spaciousness. 
What do u think about it?

I have a memt x5 at the moment so i wanna buy one iem that could be a step up from these.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

nxnje said:


> Yo guys,
> i'm still really confused. I would really love the zsr, people are saying they have a huge soundstage, very very deep bass, much warm response overall.. i listen to trap/dubstep/future bass/edm and even melodical stuff with vocals.. so i think that could be a perfect headphone for me but i'm really confused.. i found my zs3 too big for me and i've read everywhere the zsr is enormous..
> 
> I've seen the ZSA has heavy bass and it's small so maybe it would fit well to me but i even see es4 has many positive reviews and it's more accurate that zsa.
> ...


OK...

First of all ZSR is huge in sound, but the stage is like cave(not actual cave, but you can hear some echo on some songs and will always feel the wall of the room)

Bass is a mixed bag, if your ears touch the vent, then it would turn humongous in bass, otherwise normally a little bit more extended than ED16.

Gaming is fun, as the perception of sound and overall imaging is fabalous till the mid side as BA is acting.

ES4 is not a technical monstor like ZSR(though it have the graphene driver). It is more like old school, everyone pleasing tone, with technicality like hybridness doing justice and making it overall a winner. It does everything way better than a old single driver, and doesn't loose so much of the coherency which has plagued the hybrid community. It sounds something like AAW nebula 2, just a little rough on treble and a little but noticeable boost on mid bass. These are very negligible comparison to begin with.

I didn't like ZSA that much, its a cold iem with boosted bass. It can be good for some, and weird for some. It is following the footstep of ZS6, but they uplifted all treble instead of 10kHz so called peak. This makes them good but I think a little mid uplift was needed.

First do the @Slater mod to your ZS3


----------



## themindfreak

brideshead said:


> I've been looking into IEMs, and the KZs look rather promising. my girl is going to China soon, so I'm gonna have the opportunity to get some chi-fi.
> 
> i've got a question that research hasn't been able to answer, so I'm hoping one of y'all will be able to help me out.
> 
> ...


Honestly go for KZ. Soundmagic has passed its prime and cant compete anymore in the chifi world... For example I have an E10, but the ZST destroys them IMO.


----------



## audionab

i need a source for my es4 under 100$ i was considering shaling m0 
is it good? 
does it have any major cons like QC or something? 
also please suggest alternatives to shaling


----------



## chechu21

Which sound signature is ES4? It's v shape, maybe basshead?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

SiggyFraud said:


> The black KZ ES4 w/o mic are now available for 12.53 USD on Gearbest. The price can be further reduced with GB points to 10.74 USD, with the cheapest registered shipping method. It's even less with unregistered shipping (0.44 USD). Sounds like a good deal to me.


Do you have a link? They are $17 on the website right now.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 30, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Wow! That really speaks volumes about the ES4 (w/o nozzle filters) when I consider how much you enjoy the ZS5(v1).


Well, ZS5v1 and ES4 are different signature IEMs. ZS5v1, even with proper amping and source can still sound recessed in midrange (low-mids). I know it now well after getting IT01, before it wasn`t so obvious to me. ZS5v1 is still "on par" with ES4, just different signature and ES4 has way better mids. v1 in contrary has noticeably more details and resolution, especially soundstage (which is HUGE).
ES4 is no slouch in soundstage though, being over average imo.
ES4 is more similar to IT01 than to ZS5v1 actually, just A LOT less resolution and micro-details. But coherency is the key word here - both IT01 & ES4 excel in it.



SiggyFraud said:


> The black KZ ES4 w/o mic are now available for 12.53 USD on Gearbest. The price can be further reduced with GB points to 10.74 USD, with the cheapest registered shipping method. It's even less with unregistered shipping (0.44 USD). Sounds like a good deal to me.


Great! Would like to have one for modding and comparing to stock.


dhruvmeena96 said:


> ES4 is not a technical monstor like ZSR(though it have the graphene driver). It is more like old school, *everyone pleasing tone, with technicality like hybridness doing justice and making it overall a winner. It does everything way better than a old single driver, and doesn't loose so much of the coherency which has plagued the hybrid community.* It sounds something like AAW nebula 2, just a little rough on treble and a little but noticeable boost on mid bass. These are very negligible comparison to begin with.


Agree. Though, don`t quite agree @ treble roughness and boosted midbass - maybe source matching thing?


chechu21 said:


> Which sound signature is ES4? It's v shape, maybe basshead?


Balanced and smooth with good midrange, 0 harshness/sibilance. No clear typical chi-fi V-shape or basshead in here.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Jun 30, 2018)

Received my *ES4* a few days ago. (from GB, 17$)
Out of the box, with the stock starline medium tips, sound is muddy with soft big bass and no detail.
With the small starline, it's only better
But with the spiral large opening tips (Aliexpress 1.88$) it is realy good ! ES4 is very tip sensible

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...962.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.40696c37ud3i08

After sometimes but before any burn in:
The bass are very good, indeed (but I still slightly preffer those of the ZSR)
Medium are not recessed at all (recessed on the ZST & ZSR) and very very natural sounding: accoustic pianos and voices are very impressing (The ES3 sounded artificial)
Trebles are good and detailed, not sibillant at all (ES3 was sibillant all the time) , you have to listen, the global feeling is that it is less detailed than the ZS6, but on the ZS6 it's exagerated.

I remember when I got a Stax electrostatic earphone, At first listening, I thought it was sounding very bad compared to a dynamic Koss.
I had to learn during 6 month to listen differently, then only I realised the Stax was much better. Commercial produced by marketing tend to be a bit show off, but after a time are fatiguing

The "filter" (one sided board) shows 4 smd components:
C1 (capacitor unmarked value) possibly around 3uF ?
R1 (value 0, = dummy)
R2 (value 0, = dummy)
R3 (value 6R80 =6,8 ohms)
it seems that this "filter" is generic and could be used with other earphones where R1 R2 could be used)
I believe the capacitor is to cut off the bass off the BA driver
and the resistor to lower the level off treble, but normaly there are two resistors, one in parallel, + one in serie, to keep the impedance value
No correction applied to the DD

Resistors do not distort the sound, but capacitors do. The microsize of the smd component
don't give much choice: it's ceramic or tantalum (better)
I personaly use only film capacitors (mkp) for speaker filters, but they are not micro smd.
It would be interesting to test if this cap has a bad influence on the quality of the trebles
# with shunt of the capacitor
# with a replacement film cap as Wima MKP or MKS (placed outside the ES4)


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jun 30, 2018)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Do you have a link? They are $17 on the website right now.


I'm on my phone atm and can't post a working link, for some reason. Try checking them via Gearbest app.


----------



## CoiL (Jun 30, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> Received my *ES4* a few days ago. (from GB, 17$)
> Out of the box, with the stock starline medium tips, sound is muddy with soft big bass and no detail.
> With the small starline, it's only better
> But with the spiral large opening tips (Aliexpress 1.88$) it is realy good ! ES4 is very tip sensible
> ...



I totally agree. Wide-bore tips are A MUST with ES4. I found these wide-bore tips to be best for my small ears as they have longer stem, cone shape and "extend" nozzle length, so that relatively large shell fits better and more secure:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48984c4dvQyb19
Spiral dot and Auvio are also great pairing but I felt more comfort with those "cones".
While ES4 shape is similar to IT01, it is still larger enough that I can`t get its "shape" locked behind concha. With IT01 it fits and locks perfect.

I will certainly try replacing capacitor (maybe even using additional by-pass cap if possible?) and maybe there is even room inside shell?


----------



## TheVortex

audionab said:


> i need a source for my es4 under 100$ i was considering shaling m0
> is it good?
> does it have any major cons like QC or something?
> also please suggest alternatives to shaling



I own the Shanling M0 and I can recommend it. It such a great DAP for the price. There is a seperate thread on head-fi for it.

I have tried the KZ ED16 and KZ ZS10 on it so far. I will try my KZ ZS5 V1 on it tomorrow.

Below is the head-fi thread for the Shanling M0

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...-and-ess-sabre-es9218p-fw-2-0.874859/page-108


----------



## dhruvmeena96

You got the whole earphone for the tips....man u r a rich guy


CoiL said:


> I totally agree. Wide-bore tips are A MUST with ES4. I found these wide-bore tips to be best for my small ears as they have longer stem, cone shape and "extend" nozzle length, so that relatively large shell fits better and more secure:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48984c4dvQyb19
> Spiral dot and Auvio are also great pairing but I felt more comfort with those "cones".
> While ES4 shape is similar to IT01, it is still larger enough that I can`t get its "shape" locked behind concha. With IT01 it fits and locks perfect.
> ...


----------



## HungryPanda

dhruvmeena96 said:


> You got the whole earphone for the tips....man u r a rich guy


I did too they were very cheap. Didn't like the tips in the end


----------



## DocHoliday

dhruvmeena96 said:


> You got the whole earphone for the tips....man u r a rich guy






Slater said:


> Tennmak Whirlwind/Turbo
> KZ Whirlwind/Turbo
> Auvio
> 
> Also, I believe it’s @DocHoliday who gets these nice smooth looking wide bore tips in different colors. I don’t know what they are from (Beats I think) or where he gets them.





Perhaps it's not the most cost-effective way to acquire eartips but I often purchase inexpensive IEMs in order to acquire just the eartips if the eartip is different enough from the typical fare or if they look like an interesting design. 

Some of my favorites come from various Philips earphones.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Except Phillips own iem, they are wonderful for others.


DocHoliday said:


> Perhaps it's not the most cost-effective way to acquire eartips but I often purchase inexpensive IEMs in order to acquire just the eartips if the eartip is different enough from the typical fare or if they look like an interesting design.
> 
> Some of my favorites come from various Philips earphones.



Auvio is fantastic but then for wide bore I went KZ whirlwind(actually jomo whirlwind)


----------



## kaiteck

I personally use these tips


----------



## nxnje

Hello, first of all thank you for your patience and your great and detailed answer.
What i was meaning is that my zs3 was uncomfortable to my ears, maybe cause of the shape.
That's why i had doubts about zsr as i've read it has a big shape and it's not suitable for small ears.
i was going to buy the es4 but i think u stopped me, watching online it seems it would have been a step-up from my memt x5, but still not a big step up like i wanted.

Now i saw online the zs6 is interesting, i've never thought about buying them because of their treble pierce, but i've even read they have a really good bass, even if the zsr has a bass that is even better.
I'm really confused, i'm really curious about how zsr sounds and zs6 sounds but can't decide.. i have small ears and i don't wanna waste my money buying an iem that will maybe be uncomfortable to wear.



dhruvmeena96 said:


> OK...
> 
> First of all ZSR is huge in sound, but the stage is like cave(not actual cave, but you can hear some echo on some songs and will always feel the wall of the room)
> 
> ...


----------



## KainHighwind

Do thousands headphones sounds good even from a crappy source? I mostly hear on my Xiaomi Mi5 phone, I don't know if those high end headphones can sound significant better than those cheap headphones, I think the source is just as important as hearphones, right?


----------



## HungryPanda

A good source goes a long way to getting a good sound


----------



## Zerohour88

KainHighwind said:


> Do thousands headphones sounds good even from a ****ty source? I mostly hear on my Xiaomi Mi5 phone, I don't know if those high end headphones can sound significant better than those cheap headphones, I think the source is just as important as hearphones, right?



well, technically yes, they still sound good, but you still need a good source to bring out their full potential. I tested the UERM and Aeon Flow using my crap S5 phone, they still sound sublime.

To simplify it, if you have $500 to spend on portable hi-fi, I'd go $350 IEM/headphone and $150 source (the recently released Topping NX4 DSD comes to mind).


----------



## nxnje

I have to conifirm what @HungryPand says.
Since i had bad headphones i've just noticed a few stuff that didn't satisfy my tastes.
Then i started listening to different headphones and stopped on my memt x5. I mean, this is not a top notch headphone, and u can see by searching his name, many kzs are even better than my memt x5 costing less. But it introduced me into chi-fi and i discovered the DAPs world.
To get into that i bought an AGPTEK m20/Benjie s5, a cheap DAP that performs really well.. it's a no brainer for the price.
I have to say, i was listening to my humble memt x5 with my Samsung Galaxy s7, and i liked them.
But since when my girl gifted me the m20/s5 i discovered another way to listen to them. That DAP costs like a t-shirt but its value is crazy. It's an awesome source and i've tried it even with hd600 and so on. You will not catch all the potentialities of these kind of headphones that are hard to drive but they sound well, and it's crazy how a 20$ DAP can do this job.
Since when i have it, i noticed a different level of detail, basses have more extension and they go even deeper. Sound quality had a big improvement overall, i would say the experience is more immersive.
If u wanna start going around the DAP world i can tip you to buy a BENJIE S5/AGPTEK m20 or a Ruizu A50, that are both great sources to start.
If you don't care about the screen (for me is really important to choose the tracks) u can watch for the Walnut v2, which can even be used as an amplifiere as far as i know and it's a great cheap source for "bigger" headphones, and it's well made and feels so vintage.




KainHighwind said:


> Do thousands headphones sounds good even from a ****ty source? I mostly hear on my Xiaomi Mi5 phone, I don't know if those high end headphones can sound significant better than those cheap headphones, I think the source is just as important as hearphones, right?





HungryPanda said:


> A good source goes a long way to getting a good sound


----------



## CoiL

nxnje said:


> i was going to buy the es4 but i think u stopped me, watching online it seems it would have been a step-up from my memt x5, but still not a big step up like i wanted.
> i have small ears and i don't wanna waste my money buying an iem that will maybe be uncomfortable to wear.


ES4 is better in SQ than X5 I guess (depends on preference) but I would go for ZSA if I were You.


----------



## KainHighwind

nxnje said:


> I have to conifirm what @HungryPand says.
> Since i had bad headphones i've just noticed a few stuff that didn't satisfy my tastes.
> Then i started listening to different headphones and stopped on my memt x5. I mean, this is not a top notch headphone, and u can see by searching his name, many kzs are even better than my memt x5 costing less. But it introduced me into chi-fi and i discovered the DAPs world.
> To get into that i bought an AGPTEK m20/Benjie s5, a cheap DAP that performs really well.. it's a no brainer for the price.
> ...



What do you think about that Benjie S5, is it better than your phone? I want to buy it but wonder if a cheap DAP can sound better than today smartphones.


----------



## Bartig

I'm currently testing the ZSR, ES4, ZST, ZSA, ZS3, ED16 and the second generation ZS5 in a big show off.

It's near impossible to do so. They're so much alike! I bet quite a few of us wouldn't succeed in a blind test.

The good thing is they're all pretty great. You can't go wrong with anyone of them. ☺️


----------



## mbwilson111

Bartig said:


> I'm currently testing the ZSR, ES4, ZST, ZSA, ZS3, ED16 and the second generation ZS5 in a big show off.
> 
> It's near impossible to do so. They're so much alike! I bet quite a few of us wouldn't succeed in a blind test.
> 
> The good thing is they're all pretty great. You can't go wrong with anyone of them. ☺️



Are your ears sore from taking so many in and out?  I cannot even do that to compare two or three without hurting my ears.

Thanks for taking one for the team... lol.

Seems like people can just choose according to size, fit, style, color. Whatever appeals to you.  Or, just get them all  

Actually though I personally find differences among them. 

My ZST probably needs a Slater mod because it is a bit harsh to my ears.  I have a black TRN cable on my carbon ZST.  I really want to like it.

Love the ZSR and ED16 - both fit and sound...and looks.  Green ZSR, translucent black ED16.  I have changed the cables on both.  

I had problems with the fit of the ES4 even though its bigger brother the ZS10 fits me just fine (I don't mind that the ZS10 protrudes because somehow it balances well in MY ear).  I did  not listen to the ES4 long enough to form an opintion on the sound, I just knew I liked the ED16 more.  The ES4 belongs to my husband and I have no plan to buy my own.  If I ever do it will be the cyan color.

I only tried the ZSA when it was out of phase so no comment on the sound...pretty little thing but it was an awkward fit for me.    No one else has seemed to have a problem.  Because of my fit issue, I did not bother to try it after the phase problem was corrected.  If any of these KZs truly sound horrible be sure to check if it is out of phase... either because the cable is in wrong or it is truly wired out of phase as my husband's one was.

Everyone seems to love the fit of the ZS3 but some corner of it pressed on the wrong part of MY ear.  Sounded good though.  Maybe different tips would have helped it sit better. Because of my fit issue I traded it to my husband for his Rock Zircon.

I do not have a ZS5 (either generation) but I love my green ZS6.

So pick one... or two... or all... or none...


----------



## nxnje

I've heard by many people zsa lacks much details on the mids and the treble and the imaging and soundstage are not impressive as other headphones. I know that form factor would be perfect for the fitting as it's small af.



CoiL said:


> ES4 is better in SQ than X5 I guess (depends on preference) but I would go for ZSA if I were You.



Then, answering to you @KainHighwind , my AGPTEK m20 (equal to the benjie s5) is a better source than my s7 edge. I can assure you quality-wise it's superior, it has a good chip in.
In the smartphone range there are few smartphones that have a good audio chip, like LTE Axon 7, LG with some quad dac devices and so on.
In any other case, a cheap dac like the benjie s5/agptek m20 will always be a better choice, imho it's the best cheap DAP under 50$. In that price range the only one that can be better than the s5 is the ruizu a50, which is a must have for 50 bucks as it has a good colored screen and it's small and light, providing an excellent sound.
Though, i love my s5, it's like 7 cm long and 3 cm large but it provides excellent sound quality if u have a good headphone. I love its practicity and how it makes my headphones sound. I wouldn't call it an analitic DAP, sound has a little boost in the frequencies, but it has a little eq presets which can maybe help finding the right sound, even though i love the standard one which has a vshape EQ that sounds fantastic.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> Are your ears sore from taking so many in and out?  I cannot even do that to compare two or three without hurting my ears.
> 
> Thanks for taking one for the team... lol.
> 
> ...



I didn't understand if your experience with the ZSA was positive. If it was, how would u compare them to the zs6?
can i ask you other 2 questions?
1. How do the zsr compare to zs6 and zsa? Is the zsr really big for small ears and uncomfortable?
2. How would u define the ed16? Which is its sound signature and how do u compare it to zsr, zs6 and zsa?


Thanks for the patience if you're gonna give me any answer, you would be very gentle!


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> I didn't understand if your experience with the ZSA was positive. If it was, how would u compare them to the zs6?



As I said, it was out of phase when I listened so that made it horrible.  It belongs to my husband.  He has fixed the problem but I did not listen after because they do not fit comfortably for me.  I prefer smaller iems to be worn cable down so I have no wish to try them again.



nxnje said:


> can i ask you other 2 questions?
> 1. How do the zsr compare to zs6 and zsa? Is the zsr really big for small ears and uncomfortable?
> 2. How would u define the ed16? Which is its sound signature and how do u compare it to zsr, zs6 and zsa?



Others have done reviews.  As I said, I cannot take multiple iems in and out of my ears to do comparisons like that.  It hurts my ears and then I have to take a break from iems for a few days.

Some people have complained about the ZSR and the ZS6 being too big or uncomfortable.   I have no problem with them.  I have no way to know how they feel in someone elses ears

That makes me think of a funny comment someone made in another thread the other day.  We should all take photos of our ears and make that our profile picture... lol.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 2, 2018)

nxnje said:


> I didn't understand if your experience with the ZSA was positive. If it was, how would u compare them to the zs6?
> can i ask you other 2 questions?
> 1. How do the zsr compare to zs6 and zsa? Is the zsr really big for small ears and uncomfortable?
> 2. How would u define the ed16? Which is its sound signature and how do u compare it to zsr, zs6 and zsa?
> ...


1. The ZSR is very big, but not so much more different from the size of the ZS6. I had to get used to them for a couple of days.

2. The ED16 has a sound signature in the middle of the ZSR and ZSA. It has more mid bass and emphasis on the mids than the ZSA but less than ZSR.


----------



## CoiL

Bartig said:


> I'm currently testing the ZSR, *ES4, ZST*, ZSA, *ZS3*, ED16 and the second generation ZS5 in a big show off.
> It's near impossible to do so. *They're so much alike! I bet quite a few of us wouldn't succeed in a blind test.*


IMHO they are different sounding and I could identify them blindly.


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> I've heard by many people zsa lacks much details on the mids and the treble and the imaging and soundstage are not impressive as other headphones. I know that form factor would be perfect for the fitting as it's small



I tried to look at your profile page to see what you already have but it is not filled out.  So, maybe you already have this but the KZ ED9 is small and comfortable and sounds great.  It even comes with two filters to choose from.  I use the duller colored one not the shiny one.  Comfortable, cable down... very easy on the ears.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> As I said, it was out of phase when I listened so that made it horrible.  It belongs to my husband.  He has fixed the problem but I did not listen after because they do not fit comfortably for me.  I prefer smaller iems to be worn cable down so I have no wish to try them again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I understand what you say. Do u have small ears? I have small ears and my only doubt for zsr was the big shape. My question wasn't like "do u know how would it fit to my ears?", it was just a way to ask you if you have small ears, and if it fits ok even if it's big, but i think u answered me.

Now i'm really confused, much more than i was before posting here.
ES4 is nothing special, as i've read it sounds between a good single driver and good multidriver iem.
ZSA has a good shape but i lacks much details and can't handle complex tracks.
ED16 is a mystere, a mix between a technical monstor and the zsa.
KZ ZS6 is one of the best even if it has high pierce on the trebles, but ZSR and ZS6 share a big shape as they are made different than other kz iems (better soundstage, better driver tuning and positioning in the shell and so on).

chi-fi is making me mad and crazy at the same time


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 1, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Do u have small ears?



I don't know the answer to that.  I have never compared my ears to those of others.  Maybe they are average?  Medium ears?



nxnje said:


> chi-fi is making me mad and crazy at the same time



I know.. there are too many choices and KZ are not the only choices.  What do you have now? 

Get an ED9 if you do not yet have it.  Get the black one... I think it is an updated version.


----------



## B9Scrambler

nxnje said:


> *ZSA has a good shape but i lacks much details and can't handle complex tracks.*



WHAAT??? No, lol


----------



## nxnje (Jul 1, 2018)

I've read that online by many people, mids are not natural and so much recessed, bass is ok, highs are not detailed, soundstage is nothing special. Build and construction are fabulous. That's what i've read online by multiple people.


B9Scrambler said:


> WHAAT??? No, lol




I only had kz zs3 but i had the chance to try the ed9: imho not enough sub-bass and too much bright mid-high frequencies, even sibilant at times. They are heavy and the nozzle is so long, it creates a strange discomfort feeling
My daily drivers are Memt x5


mbwilson111 said:


> I don't know the answer to that.  I have never compared my ears to those of others.  Maybe they are average?  Medium ears?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My only problem is the shape, but i can just see people with big ears reviewing this monstors like zs6, revonext qt2 and so on. The only one that could sure fit me would be the tin audio t2, but it's out of range with the price and i've read u have to mod it in order to have a good bass, and i'm extremely bad in modding headphones.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 1, 2018)

nxnje said:


> i had the chance to try the ed9: imho not enough sub-bass and too much bright mid-high frequencies, even sibilant at times.



That is not what I hear with the ED9... that sounds like they need a tip change.

@nxnje I just had a thought.  You might like the Memt T5.  I like it better than the X5.  It is extremely comfortable being a pod rather than an iem.  When I got mine I was shocked at how good it sounded.


----------



## B9Scrambler

nxnje said:


> I've read that online by many people, mids are not natural and so much recessed, bass is ok, highs are not detailed, soundstage is nothing special. Build and construction are fabulous. That's what i've read online by multiple people.



Okay, so you don't actually own them. That makes sense now. They're nearly as detailed as the ZS6 but more realistic sounding with some of the best tone and timbre of anything KZ has released. Mids are set back a bit, but not so far as to be a hindrance. Everything is still very intelligible. Bass is lightly elevated, not nearly to the extent of the ZSR or ZS10, and is very well controlled and highly textured. Yup, sound stage is pretty average but it counters that with accurate imaging, layering, and separation. For the same price it makes the ZST obsolete imo, and despite costing nearly half the price compares well with the ZS6, ZSR, and ZS10. For 20 bucks it's an insanely good earphone.


----------



## Bartig

CoiL said:


> IMHO they are different sounding and I could identify them blindly.


That's when you take the extremes. Blend them all in a test and it becomes very, very hard.


----------



## nxnje

I had tried to change the tips and i even tried them with my foam ones, still didn't like them.
The T5 were one of the headphones i was interested in when i first heard about em, but they're not in ear and i have problems wearing the earbuds which doesn't go into the ear-canal, i miss that rumble i feel with the deep basses of an IEM. I know, i'm a difficult guy with ears, and that's why i'm struggling to find a good piece of headphones that can be a huge step up and can even be comfortable IEMS


mbwilson111 said:


> That is not what I hear with the ED9... that sounds like they need a tip change.
> 
> @nxnje I just had a thought.  You might like the Memt T5.  I like it better than the X5.  It is extremely comfortable being a pod rather than an iem.  When I got mine I was shocked at how good it sounded.



You're one of the few guys that find those a gem.
I don't know what to believe atm, i trust you but i should even trust many bad things about em as sound perception is different.
It's not i don't wanna try, but i always order from aliexpress and it takes like 45 days from where i am and i even have to pay my studies so if i buy one of them i don't like i can't pick another one.

I've read online someone thinks like u said, but there are 20% of the ones who actually own them, they all prefer the es4 instead of the zsa. Zsa has a fantastic form factor as i can see, but i'm really confused about so many contrastant reviews.
That could be 2 cases: 
1. everyone hears different the same set of headphones
2. QC sucks and many of em sound different


B9Scrambler said:


> Okay, so you don't actually own them. That makes sense now. They're nearly as detailed as the ZS6 but more realistic sounding with some of the best tone and timbre of anything KZ has released. Mids are set back a bit, but not so far as to be a hindrance. Everything is still very intelligible. Bass is lightly elevated, not nearly to the extent of the ZSR or ZS10, and is very well controlled and highly textured. Yup, sound stage is pretty average but it counters that with accurate imaging, layering, and separation. For the same price it makes the ZST obsolete imo, and despite costing nearly half the price compares well with the ZS6, ZSR, and ZS10. For 20 bucks it's an insanely good earphone.


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> I know, i'm a difficult guy with ears, and that's why i'm struggling to find a good piece of headphones that can be a huge step up and can even be comfortable IEMS



Maybe you should just continue to enjoy your Memt X5 and stop overthinking everything.  Just relax and enjoy your music.  Maybe discover some new music... even a genre that you have never tried.  When the right "upgrade" does appear hopefully you will know.


----------



## SuperLuigi

CoiL said:


> IMHO they are different sounding and I could identify them blindly.




Sounds like a challenge to me!


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> The T5 were one of the headphones i was interested in when i first heard about em, but they're not in ear and i have problems wearing the earbuds which doesn't go into the ear-canal, i miss that rumble i feel with the deep basses of an IEM.



i know this is the KZ thread but as the subject has come up I will say this.

The Memt T5 is not really an earbud.  It is a pod... kind of between an iem and an earbud.  If you look at this photo of mine, you will see that the openings point into your ear canal.  With some ears it will go in a little... it does with mine.  They are extremely comfortable and sound MUCH better than you might expect.  They are metal and they are magnetized so that they stick together like in the photo... helps keep the cable from tangling during storage.


----------



## Shaolinjordan

I was looking between the ate and the zs3 since they are around 8usd each. Which is better or are the more expensive ones much better eg zst? Also there seems to be millions of competing chi fi iems eg ve monk - are there any that are better than kz for the price? Thanks!


----------



## Slater

Shaolinjordan said:


> I was looking between the ate and the zs3 since they are around 8usd each. Which is better or are the more expensive ones much better eg zst? Also there seems to be millions of competing chi fi iems eg ve monk - are there any that are better than kz for the price? Thanks!



What kind of sound profile are you looking for? That will help you get more meaningful recommendations, which you will ultimately be happier with.


----------



## Shaolinjordan

Slater said:


> What kind of sound profile are you looking for? That will help you get more meaningful recommendations, which you will ultimately be happier with.



I'm new to all this and up for trying anything really. I guess I like clarity and soundstage with flat frequency response from what I've heard though. For example I was blown away by my samson sr850 headphones 

Thanks


----------



## Superluc

CoiL said:


> I believe ES4 is "replacing" my modded ZS5v1 because of more coherency and balanced sound and becoming quietly my favourite KZ (without nozzle grills + wide-bore tips).


How removing the grills affect the sound of them ?


----------



## Slater

Shaolinjordan said:


> I'm new to all this and up for trying anything really. I guess I like clarity and soundstage with flat frequency response from what I've heard though. For example I was blown away by my samson sr850 headphones
> 
> Thanks



I forgot to ask what genres you listen to?


----------



## kaiteck

Superluc said:


> How removing the grills affect the sound of them ?


it affects the highs i believe.


----------



## kaiteck

i didnt expect coil haven't buy zs10 tho


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Shaolinjordan said:


> I was looking between the ate and the zs3 since they are around 8usd each. Which is better or are the more expensive ones much better eg zst? Also there seems to be millions of competing chi fi iems eg ve monk - are there any that are better than kz for the price? Thanks!


Seriously....asking for shure sound on KZ thread...
LoL

Ummm lemme think....


Get a ZS6 slater mod


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@B9Scrambler I have some nice Monnie bro(lol money). I tried KZ ZSA once for some minutes on tears for my guitar track and it was too harsh. I have ES4 and I want to know some comparison between ZSA and ES4.


----------



## cyberjunkie

I think many of us who rushed into buying the ZS10 and ended slightly overwhelmed should try different cables or test for polarity issues. I just swapped cables with the ZST over the weekend. The ZS10 has come alive!

The shrill, oddly empty, bass-less and oddly wide sound-staging has reduced drastically.


----------



## Bartig

cyberjunkie said:


> I think many of us who rushed into buying the ZS10 and ended slightly overwhelmed should try different cables or test for polarity issues. I just swapped cables with the ZST over the weekend. The ZS10 has come alive!
> 
> The shrill, oddly empty, bass-less and oddly wide sound-staging has reduced drastically.


I've tried everything. Polarity checks, different cables, tons of different tips. The upper mids stayed overdrawn and harsh. Then I tried the last option to get the most out of the ZS10...

I sold it.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Jul 2, 2018)

Shaolinjordan said:


> I'm new to all this and up for trying anything really. I guess I like clarity and soundstage with flat frequency response from what I've heard though. For example I was blown away by my samson sr850 headphones
> 
> Thanks


I have the Superlux HD681 that is very close to your Samson, yes, with a good dac/amp, they are great !
You would be realy deceived by the Ate. and even by the ZS3 that lacks the trebles of the Samson,
Wait or get a job to get the needed 20$ !
The Zst has real trebles, it is a very good earphone. trebles are a bit agressive out of the box but soften after 50 hours burnin.
# ZSR is great (21$) and the new ES4 is very good too tuned differently (17$ at GearBest)
# ES4 sound: big bass, very natural voices and piano, polite detailed highs
# ED16 (21$ Aliexpress) maybe somesound between the ZSR and ES4
There is a quality for the price with KZ that is realy safe & best, they are very ambitious, they begin to have a lot of experience.


----------



## smy1

cyberjunkie said:


> I think many of us who rushed into buying the ZS10 and ended slightly overwhelmed should try different cables or test for polarity issues. I just swapped cables with the ZST over the weekend. The ZS10 has come alive!
> 
> The shrill, oddly empty, bass-less and oddly wide sound-staging has reduced drastically.



So I shouldn’t have order the zs10 :/?


----------



## s8grave (Jul 2, 2018)

smy1 said:


> So I shouldn’t have order the zs10 :/?


You did everything right! 
I felt the same when I read this thread and reviews on ZS10, but IMO they sound great with a stock cable as well) I hope you will like it is I do.


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like KZ have released a nice KZ bluetooth adapter with much needed battery life






Looks it is supposed to have a 8 hour battery life, 2 pin angled / straight connector and MMCX connector, AptX and AAC and IPX5 waterproof rating.


----------



## hiflofi

Any more info on the 5BA IEM supposedly coming out this month? Hope it's not as v-shaped as the usual KZ sound.


----------



## TheVortex

hiflofi said:


> Any more info on the 5BA IEM supposedly coming out this month? Hope it's not as v-shaped as the usual KZ sound.



No news yet or the upcoming 8 driver one either. As soon as someone gets more info they will post it here.


----------



## CoiL (Jul 2, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> WHAAT??? No, lol


Don`be surprised. This is KZ quality. I`m having same "whaaat?" with Otto describing ES4 mids "really harsh" which I can not tell about my ES4. Go figure.


Superluc said:


> How removing the grills affect the sound of them ?





kaiteck said:


> it affects the highs i believe.


Not only highs. Rather whole FR clarity but in case of ES4 it is minor effect.


kaiteck said:


> i didnt expect coil haven't buy zs10 tho


No need. I have modded IT01 and all the impressions and reviews about ZS10 + its shape, size  and price - not appealing. I rather save that money for another IT01 and mod it, or something else from 100$ price bracket.
I even got ES4 just because of low price (14$), good looks/fit and good reviews. Luckily I got good unit as seems some ppl have pretty different impressions as I do, which make me thing there are 1) different revision/batches 2) poor QC 3) totally different source gear and hearing ? Idk, and I don`t care


----------



## Adide

For me ZS10 became excellent with EQ.

They obey settings extremely well and my ears cannot detect distortion, clipping or whatever issues are usually associated with EQ.

ZS10 was a technical powerhouse from the beginning, as already mentioned by most reviewers, with top notch soundstage, layering, imaging, separation and detail.

What was holding them to shine IMO was a number of tonality flaws that could successfully be corrected via EQ. Some like them just the way they are but unit variation might as well be an issue with such a complex engineering at a modest price so we might not listen to precisely the same thing.

I'm not a fan of EQ but I gave these try for the sake of all that tech goodness that could be glimpsed beneath the underwhelming frequency response.

My initial EQ settings have been further refined via Neutralizer which for me is only an indirect tool (it doesn't work directly with LG V30 nor with other dual dac sources I presume). Its EQ output was mimicked onto UAPP native EQ and then tweaked a bit. I use wide bores.

I cannot find flaws for them right now really. They are amazingly good with mids forward in beautiful balance with clean nuanced bass and nicely extended treble which makes instruments sound natural in an airy presentation.

Very busy metal acts such as Black Fast - Starving Out The Light sound very clean and also energetic while complex and very skilled compositions such as Fates Warning - Parallels are amazingly natural, musical and detailed.
The Night Flight Orchestra's hard rock performance is also fulfilling as well as a number of additional metal/rock albums I've tried.

Didn't run any classical or jazz so far and that's where my musical preferences pretty much end.

Over and out for now.


----------



## kaiteck

Adide said:


> For me ZS10 became excellent with EQ.
> 
> They obey settings extremely well and my ears cannot detect distortion, clipping or whatever issues are usually associated with EQ.
> 
> ...



It is generally recommended to lower your preamp/gain if you have one frequency that is above the norm.


----------



## kaiteck

CoiL said:


> *with Otto describing ES4 mids "really harsh*"



I believe otto has a bad pair.


----------



## KainHighwind

CoiL said:


> Don`be surprised. This is KZ quality. I`m having same "whaaat?" with Otto describing ES4 mids "really harsh" which I can not tell about my ES4. Go figure.
> 
> 
> Not only highs. Rather whole FR clarity but in case of ES4 it is minor effect.
> ...



Yeah after all those sub $20 USD IEMs, I'm saving for IT01 now, if I didn't buy my current IEMs, I would have enough money for IT01.


----------



## Slater (Jul 2, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> Looks like KZ have released a nice KZ bluetooth adapter with much needed battery life
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*coughTRNripoffcough* haha, j/k

About time KZ updated their Bluetooth cable! MMCX version will definitely be a hit, as there’s not too many Bluetooth MMCX cables.

I do hope the design and performance is better than their previous Bluetooth cables. Those left much to be desired.

Flaky connectivity, cutting/skipping out, antenna design flaw caused poor range, susceptible to interference, huge audio lag made them impossible to use for videos, etc.

Although I never tried the Bluetooth 5.0 version; maybe they made some improvements.

Good thing I only paid $2.99 for mine.

$17 looks like a very fair price for this new cable (especially for MMCX). I wish it used something newer than Bluetooth 4.1 though. Nice to see a decent Qualcomm CSR8645 chip at least, vs the generic chingchong chip they used previously).


----------



## maxxevv

They are about US$17.40/- . But I find it strange that it states BT 4.1 AptX rather than the newest BT 5.0 standard that would have covered everything. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32891194483.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.259.4f873c00FdVigM


----------



## Slater (Jul 2, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> They are about US$17.40/- . But I find it strange that it states BT 4.1 AptX rather than the newest BT 5.0 standard that would have covered everything.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32891194483.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.259.4f873c00FdVigM



Agreed.

Despite not many products having 5.0 at the moment, it would have been able to carry the product for a few years.

I wouldn’t have developed a brand new product and used really old Bluetooth tech, but that’s just me. I know they did it because of cost. You can get CSR8645 chips for pennies because they are old tech and plentiful. If they went with the newest Bluetooth 5.0 chips, they wouldn’t have been able to do it for $17.

Heck even 4.2 would have been superior to 4.1. Both 5.0 and 4.2 have significantly higher bandwidth, lower power consumption, faster connectivity, etc.

And 5.0 is on another level. It’s literally the closest thing to hard wired, and will be a total game changer for Bluetooth audio (at least from an audiophile’s perspective).


----------



## maxxevv (Jul 2, 2018)

Slater said:


> And 5.0 is on another level. It’s literally the closest thing to hard wired, and will be a total game changer for Bluetooth audio (at least from an audiophile’s perspective).



I know!  

I actually have a BT 5.0 audio receiver with co-axial output for connection to my desktop DAC when I'm in the mood for some ambient music streamed and controlled from my handphone. (My handphone supports AptX HD) 
On 256kbps MP3 and lower stuff, the trade-off in sound quality is actually pretty hard to detect. Compression effects for FLAC and DSD do creep in though.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

I finally received my ED16 today. I've said before the ES4 was the best KZ I've tried so far but the ED16 easily tops it. It's the first KZ hybrid that has sounded fairly neutral to me. I can go back and forth between the ED16 and T2 and, despite some differences, find them to have somewhat similar sound signatures.


----------



## Rodrigo (Jul 3, 2018)

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I finally received my ED16 today. I've said before the ES4 was the best KZ I've tried so far but the ED16 easily tops it. It's the first KZ hybrid that has sounded fairly neutral to me. I can go back and forth between the ED16 and T2 and, despite some differences, find them to have somewhat similar sound signatures.


I expect a good comparison between the ed16 and T2.


----------



## hiflofi

I find it odd that v-shaped IEMs are being considered "fairly neutral".


----------



## ViperScull

Slater said:


> *coughTRNripoffcough* haha, j/k
> 
> About time KZ updated their Bluetooth cable! MMCX version will definitely be a hit, as there’s not too many Bluetooth MMCX cables.
> 
> ...



I was also expecting BLE 5.0 But realistically it wouldn't have been in line with Kz's affordable prices policy. But 4.2 would have been a nice addition, and it probably would have got the same playback time with a bit of less battery size. Anyway 8 hours is not bad at all. Let's wait for the reviews because I'm interested.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I finally received my ED16 today. I've said before the ES4 was the best KZ I've tried so far but the ED16 easily tops it. It's the first KZ hybrid that has sounded fairly neutral to me. I can go back and forth between the ED16 and T2 and, despite some differences, find them to have somewhat similar sound signatures.





hiflofi said:


> I find it odd that v-shaped IEMs are being considered "fairly neutral".


I find ED16 neither flat nor V shape, I find them balanced but energetic. They sound very good albeit lack of super stage of ZSR. It sounds more of a HiFi done right.


@Slater 

KZ Bluetooth cable is technically a little better because it is having EDR which improves the signal lane bandwidth. It may be better than TRN cable


----------



## CoiL

hiflofi said:


> I find it odd that v-shaped IEMs are being considered "fairly neutral".


Unfortunately many cheapo chi-fi hoarders tend to do so, including myself not a long time ago, LOL. It`s all about the midrange and I doubt ED16 is actually better in that.


dhruvmeena96 said:


> I find ED16 neither flat nor V shape, I find them balanced but energetic. They sound very good albeit lack of super stage of ZSR. It sounds more of a HiFi done right.


So, in Your subjective opinon, ED16 is better than ES4?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> Unfortunately many cheapo chi-fi hoarders tend to do so, including myself not a long time ago, LOL. It`s all about the midrange and I doubt ED16 is actually better in that.
> 
> So, in Your subjective opinon, ED16 is better than ES4?


It depends. Sort of, but I think it is a direct comparison to ZSA and is way better.

Well, I researched something and found ED16 is actually not a part of ED series but ZS Series. It is ZS7.

ZS series is KZ flagship, also can be called as Z studio.

ES is known as Eco studio

ED is known as Eco Director.

And blah blah....my info can be wrong but I read it somewhere.

ED16 sounds something between ZSA and ZSR, it has treble like ZSA but is bassier and has weight in vocals which in comparison to ZSA, gives it a nice depth and body. You can say a pro oriented ZSR. It is more like open field and not like room diffuse field(its different from diffuse field) ZSR. So it won't have that reverb and stage but is very tight in control.

ES4 is not a successor of ZST, but ES4. It is same as ES3 bass but controlled and don't boom. Treble was cut off and tuned to a good level. ZST was less bass heavy than ES3 and little more lit.

Sony like comparison for easy discerning as you would get review and comparison of Sony easily.. It applies on these too(don't take sound signature in matter, the differences between these headphone and IEM is just the same, for eg mdr7506 was bass light v6 whereas cd900st treble peak was lowered compared to v6)

ZST- mdr7506
ES3- MDR v6
ES4- cd900st

ED16 is very different from the bunch


----------



## Zlivan

who would've thought with that "zs7" writing on the shells...


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jul 3, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> I find it odd that v-shaped IEMs are being considered "fairly neutral".


Except they're not v-shaped in the way that most KZ hybrids are, nor was the ZSR. They don't have the large peaks in upper-mids/treble. They may exhibit a bit of a warmer tone because the FR has a slight downward slope, but that largely depends on the interaction between the listener's ear and the bass vents. In my case, the ZSR sounds bloated, while the ED16 does not at all. Relative to the lows and highs, the mids are not recessed. Therefore, calling it v-shaped would not be accurate.

If you were to listen to the ED16 and compare with other IEMs that are v-shaped/neutral, it becomes pretty obvious where they stand.


----------



## HernanKhan (Jul 3, 2018)

*Removed*


----------



## ~n00beR (Jul 3, 2018)

I have lurked in this thread for some time and head-fI has always been a trusted source for me when looking for headphone reviews.

I am well on my way with a collection of cheap Chinese iems and continue to enjoy the journey.

Recently I picked up a pair of the KZ ES4s and thought I should finally give something back to all the other contributers of reviews.

The ES4 is slightly larger than other IEMs, in the way it sticks out of your ear more.
Otherwise they are still very comfortable to wear.

The difference between the ES4/ES10 and many other IEMs  at this price range is the KZ ES4/ES10 have a built in cross over.

I have a pair of popular iems that sound like "yoyo" pros and used those as a comparison as they are also 1DD+1BA.

At times the highs on the yinyoos can be piercing , and at higher volumes it is more obvious.
The ES4s did not suffer from this problem when listening to the same tracks.

The mids are well placed and instrument separation is good.

If you listen to something complex like aphex twin, the sounds are always well separated and don't become muddied.

The bass extends low, down into the sub bass range.
There is a good quantity of bass and sub bass but it does not disturb or overpower the other frequencies.
The bass is tight and controlled and again does not sound muddied at normal or higher volumes.

To me the ES4 is not a neutral sounding iem and leans more towards a v shaped sound signature.

I think the sound improvements over the yinyoos come down to the integrated crossover on the PCB.

The cable is the new braided cable from KZ, which doesn't get tangled and doesnt appear to have the memory as much as the old cable and it is much less microphonic.

I got the version with the microphone, which works well and produces a clear sound during calls.

Another feature I like is the memory wire in the cable, this allows you to shape the cable around your ear.
Other iem cables I have, the wire retains the shape it has been stored in, so at it es the cable does not sit nicely around your ear.

If you are looking for an iem in this price range I can thoroughly recommend the KZ ES4.


----------



## SiggyFraud

I wonder if there's anyone who has/had all three - KZ ES4, ED16, and ZSA, and could write a more detailed comparison of them. Or if one of the more experienced members could round up the feedback we've had so far, maybe filter out the less important stuff, and create such a comparison.
I'm sure it would be of of great use for new members, such as myself, and those who simply get lost with pages and pages of loose ramblings and, often, contradictory information.​


----------



## Slater (Jul 3, 2018)

SiggyFraud said:


> I wonder if there's anyone who has/had all three - KZ ES4, ED16, and ZSA, and could write a more detailed comparison of them.
> 
> I'm sure it would be of of great use for new members, such as myself, and those who simply get lost with pages and pages of loose ramblings and, *often, contradictory information.*​



I totally get what you're saying, but "often contradictory information" is unfortunately always going to be the case.

The reasons:

No 2 people hear the same way. Some have mild hearing loss (or loss at specific frequencies), others have tinnitus. Age is a huge difference, which greatly affects the frequency range we can even detect.
People have different shapes and sizes of ears and ear canals (affecting fit, seal, insertion depth, and frequency reflections).
Not everyone listens to the same musical genres (classical vs rap), the same versions of songs, or at the same quality - some stream from Spotify, while others listen directly from vinyl or CD.
Not everyone owns the same gear or listens using the same sources - some use an iPhone 8 while others use a Fiio X5.
Not everyone uses amps, and those that do usually don't have the same amps (power rating, output impedance, output voltage, tube vs solid state, etc).
Tips make a huge difference, and most of us tip roll. My comments using tips X may not match someone else's comments using tips Y.
Some people are more sensitive to treble or sibilance, while others aren't.
Not everyone uses the same cables - some use stock while others use upgrade cables (all of which have different impedances which affects sound).
Finally, there can be QC variations between units, such as volume mismatches, dead BAs, or vent holes clogged with glue. Likewise, some people accidentally plugging their gear in out of phase (or their gear could even be internally wired out of phase from the factory).

As far as getting lost in pages and pages of ramblings, the HeadFi product pages (that include reviews) are very helpful for this exact reason. Many (if not most) popular products have product pages, which commonly have multiple reviews. This is the 1st place I would look, as impressions and comparisons are organized and condensed into 1 nice tidy place.


----------



## HernanKhan (Jul 3, 2018)

Hey guys, what's the deal with the ZSE, plan to buy it alongside ES4. I've been reading a lot of pages in this thread and I rarely saw the ZSE getting even mentioned.

Don't know if it's just me, but I certainly like the way it looks and it's really cheap even among KZ.

I don't own any other IEMs, bought a ZS3 last year but only lasted 2 days before being ran over by a car.


----------



## Shaolinjordan

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Seriously....asking for shure sound on KZ thread...
> LoL
> 
> Ummm lemme think....
> ...





Slater said:


> I forgot to ask what genres you listen to?



Thanks both for your replies. I listen to everything from classical, acoustic, rock and metal.

When I was young I thought any IEM with bass was the bomb (sony xb40ex, skullcandy inkd etc) and then heard my friends shure se215 and was pretty blown away. I few years later I'm using the Mee M6 pro, yet when I got the samson sr850s my mind was blown again and now even the m6 pros just sound like theyre missing something that I cant put my finger on. Recently I bought the xioami original pistons and was impressed for $3 but wold never listen to music with them. I came across the ATE and ve monk reviews, however, both have me wondering if they really are that good or only due to their price. I also don't want to buy lots, like all of them but does not love any of them. I am also tempted towards the more expensive ones such as the final audio e3000 and the 1more triple driver since even at their prices their reviews are incredible. I've also heard of a bunch of other ones eg carbo tenore. 

Therefore I was wondering if there was any one kz iem that anyone would recommend if I could only choose one (I wish there was some kind of poll on this thread!). I appreciate that a lot of it comes down to presonal preference but as I mentioned I am new to this so up for trying new sounds. 

Something else I was wondering if someone could clarify is when an earphone is "bassy" or not "bassy", how is this relavant since anything can be EQ to personal preference anyway.

Thanks so much for all your help - I've been lurking on these forums for a while now!


----------



## Shaolinjordan

jeromeaparis said:


> I have the Superlux HD681 that is very close to your Samson, yes, with a good dac/amp, they are great !
> You would be realy deceived by the Ate. and even by the ZS3 that lacks the trebles of the Samson,
> Wait or get a job to get the needed 20$ !
> The Zst has real trebles, it is a very good earphone. trebles are a bit agressive out of the box but soften after 50 hours burnin.
> ...



Sorry forgot to reply to you. If you could recommend just one which would you choose?


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## jeromeaparis (Jul 3, 2018)

Shaolinjordan said:


> Sorry forgot to reply to you. If you could recommend just one which would you choose?


Hi, I just did order with a friend One grey KZ ED16 for *17€* that I do recommand to you:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ED16-Earphone-2BA-1DD-Armature-Dynamic-Hybrid-Headset-Earphone-HiFi-Heavy-bass-Sport-EarbudsWith/32875253293.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.56d46c37dq8mSs


----------



## SiggyFraud

SiggyFraud said:


> I wonder if there's anyone who has/had all three - KZ ES4, ED16, and ZSA, and could write a more detailed comparison of them. Or if one of the more experienced members could round up the feedback we've had so far, maybe filter out the less important stuff, and create such a comparison.
> I'm sure it would be of of great use for new members, such as myself, and those who simply get lost with pages and pages of loose ramblings and, often, contradictory information.​


Thanks to the courtesy of @Otto Motor, who contacted me via PM, here's a link to a German webpage where a fellow chi-fi enthusiast did exactly what I was thinking about - he reviewed the three aforementioned KZ models, with comments on how they relate to each other.
https://david-hahn.wixsite.com/chi-fiear
Just use Google translate, or the Chrome extension.
Thanks, Otto!


----------



## stmiller

Don't give up on these kz iems till you've heard them balanced..

Good lord, 

 I've owned my ZS6 for the past few months but recently purchased the da3 so decided to go balanced.. 

I'm    

The stage explodes in all directions.. 
The clarity for which these are known for is truly revealed.. 

Only problem is that sabre sound doesn't help the already bright ZS6 especially on poor recordings.

Good times ahead..if only kz can get their tuning right, it game over for the so called mid-tier iems. 

Still saving up for my first foray into the big league (isine 20).


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## Slater (Jul 3, 2018)

I have a cool little IEM-related mod I wanted to share.

I have lots of different zippered storage cases, of different shapes and sizes. But I have been looking for something a little bit more stackable and compact. I also wanted something that could stand up to much more abuse, being super tough.

Sure, some people buy large plastic cases with multiple compartments, but I wanted something I could toss in my pocket, or glovebox, backpack, or gym bag.

The zippered cases can also add up, at $1-$1.50 each. Finally, I wanted something nice looking when I gift IEMs to people for something like the KZ EDR1 which comes in a cardboard box.

I found these cool metal screw lid tins. They are available in different sizes and colors, and you can find them with solid lids or even with a small clear window. The prices are as cheap as 1/2 of the zippered cases (ie ~$0.50 each). The price varies depending on the color, size, and if it has a clear lid or not. They stack up nice and neatly, are easy to grab and go, and you can even hold them together with small magnets! You can write on the lid with a Sharpie or make a label or whatever you want.




For example, 2oz/60gram cases are plenty roomy enough for all earbuds, as well as IEMs like MEMT X5, T5, KZ ED9, EDR1, EDR2, Rock Zircon, etc. For larger IEMs, like KZ ZS3, ZST, ZS6, ZSR, ZS10, etc you can get larger sizes (100 and 150gram).

You can find them on ebay, Amazon, and Aliexpress by searching for "round metal tins" or similar search terms.

Here's 3 examples of the ones similar to mine:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FY7OGCM/
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24p...-Tin-For-Ointment-Hand-Cream/32821893134.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lot...-Tin-2oz-Cosmetic-Containers/32727540274.html
I also lined mine with some adhesive-backed velvet I had a roll of. I just traced the appropriately-sized circle with a compass, cut it out, and peeled and stuck it to the underside of the lid and the bottom of the case. Here's what it looks like with the velvet lining and an IEM inside:


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## DocHoliday (Jul 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> I have a cool little IEM-related mod I wanted to share.
> 
> I have lots of different zippered storage cases, of different shapes and sizes. But I have been looking for something a little bit more stackable and compact. I also wanted something that could stand up to much more abuse, being super tough.
> 
> ...



Excellent, excellent find Slater!

I've been searching high and low for something to replace my zippered cases, which have worked well but I'd like something more stackable. 




Spoiler





 


 






I think I'll be seeking out the 3oz or 4oz tins with the window top. It'll be easier to see which IEM is inside with only a glance and once I line the bottom and sides with felt I'll be all set. I use Velcro straps to secure the cables on my IEMs. The combination of Velcro and felt means the IEM won't shift around.

With all the old KZ's and all the new KZ's coming it'll be nice to get things better organized for easy access.

Amazon has a 24-pack for $30.

Great find!


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## Slater (Jul 3, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Excellent, excellent find Slater!
> 
> I've been searching high and low for something to replace my zippered cases, which have worked well but I'd like something more stackable.
> 
> ...



FYI, I got the velvet in numerous colors for a few bucks. Just search for “adhesive back velvet” and you’ll find it. You can also get felt, but I had the velvet for another project anyways (and prefer the velvet for lining).

Just remember to get something thin, as it reduces the inside volume by the time you line everything. Felt should be 1mm max, and velvet is even thinner.


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## DocHoliday (Jul 3, 2018)

A





Slater said:


> FYI, I got the velvet in numerous colors for a few bucks. Just search for “adhesive back velvet” and you’ll find it. You can also get felt, but I had the velvet for another project anyways (and prefer the velvet for lining).
> 
> Just remember to get something thin, as it reduces the inside volume by the time you line everything. Felt should be 1mm max, and velvet is even thinner.




All the more reason for me to get the 4oz tins. 

I'll do the velvet with adhesive backing per your suggestion. Red velvet for hybrids, dark gray velvet for  non-hybrids and perhaps electric blue for pure BA's. 

Thanks for the find!


----------



## neo_styles

Well I guess if you want an ED16, you need to get it quickly. Does this qualify as KZ's shortest product run ever? Apologies if this has already been covered, but might be useful for people who don't want to search back through previous posts:

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ed16-kz-zs7-review/


----------



## stryed

The ED19 itch is is creeping up on me . An upgrade from KZ ZS5v2 would have been the gorgeous KZ6, but there's a doubling of price, copy cat factor, as well as potential discontinued factor! 

More comparisons between the ED19 and the old KZ ZS5/6 would be appreciated. ES4, ZS10 and ZSA don't seem to have a firm position to sit in for comparisons yet.


----------



## HonorKirin (Jul 3, 2018)

HernanKhan said:


> Hey guys, what's the deal with the ZSE, plan to buy it alongside ES4. I've been reading a lot of pages in this thread and I rarely saw the ZSE getting even mentioned.
> 
> Don't know if it's just me, but I certainly like the way it looks and it's really cheap even among KZ.
> 
> I don't own any other IEMs, bought a ZS3 last year but only lasted 2 days before being ran over by a car.



I have the ZSE and ED9 (black version, brass filter used here) (both can be had at 7-8USD), but IMO ED9 is way more superior than the ZSE, based on my listening on my phone.
The ZSE sounded sort of L-shaped to me and the bass sound loose compared to ED9. Not sure if mine have defective QC. I do found that guitar sounds more natural on ZSE however, and ZSE have way more bass than my ED9.
Vocals and soundstage are better on ED9 and does not sound piercing to my ears.
Sound isolation both are about the same, at least to me.
The ZSE is more comfortable to my ears, although I'm using the starline tips on both.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> I have a cool little IEM-related mod I wanted to share.
> 
> I have lots of different zippered storage cases, of different shapes and sizes. But I have been looking for something a little bit more stackable and compact. I also wanted something that could stand up to much more abuse, being super tough.
> 
> ...


I can use the dabba(Indian round metal tiffin box) and it will look cool.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Shaolinjordan said:


> Sorry forgot to reply to you. If you could recommend just one which would you choose?


ED16 with silver cable and spinfit 240.

It will do you justice...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Save your Minnie's and go get the Kinera IDUN. I saw the FR, and it is completly compensated balanced neutral tuning. And reviews are better than iBasso and TFZ(even better than HiFiBoys OSV3).

Some are even claiming hybrid went perfect. Actually I was on kinera H3 thread and we told the person in charge of kinera there about kinera H3(aggressive, V shape) and he improved it(and FR is some crazy improvement


from headfonia

Purple is Kinera H3, black is Kinera IDUN.

I am saving my Monnies, and will buy this.
That sort of compensation is not seen nowadays.

And the burgundy wood looks amazing on IDUN

Waiting for KZ to do that magic too

@CoiL @Slater @B9Scrambler @audio123


----------



## DocHoliday

So.......Slater, before you order more of the tin containers check out these 3oz containers with enough room for the ZS6, ZSR, ED16, ZSA, etc.



 

I'm sure they come in 2oz sizes as well for better mobility.

Place the felt/velvet inside the lid and store the container upside down (using the lid as the base) offering a complete window to your IEM.


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Save your Minnie's and go get the Kinera IDUN. I saw the FR, and it is completly compensated balanced neutral tuning. And reviews are better than iBasso and TFZ(even better than HiFiBoys OSV3).
> 
> Some are even claiming hybrid went perfect. Actually I was on kinera H3 thread and we told the person in charge of kinera there about kinera H3(aggressive, V shape) and he improved it(and FR is some crazy improvementfrom headfonia
> 
> ...


Thanks for info! They sure look gorgeous and graph is  great! O_o
I wonder how they compare to Hisenior B5+ (which is being discontinued soon)?
Kinera has made big stepup it seems. How much is IDUN going to be priced?
Sorry for OT.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jul 4, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Thanks for info! They sure look gorgeous and graph is  great! O_o
> I wonder how they compare to Hisenior B5+ (which is being discontinued soon)?
> Kinera has made big stepup it seems. How much is IDUN going to be priced?
> Sorry for OT.


30$ more than kinera H3.

130USD limited edition with wood back.

As per some guys I know, they are all saying that the nature of the IEM is hovering in between Natural and precise. So don't expect fun from them. But the imaging is told to be phenomenal, so that instrument and separation leads to headphone style pseudo soundstage.

Mo Monies are on thes! No quston asked.

Lol my English

But if graph is so much improvement then I gonna have to buy it.

Let's see what KZ does with full BA now...because now they have started their own BA manufacturing completely(KZ ZSA imaging is very good for price, just the sound is weightless and sometimes harsh, but the treble is lovely when it comes to present itself)


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ ZSA imaging is very good for price, just the *sound is weightless and sometimes harsh*, but the treble is lovely when it comes to present itself)


So, ED16 > ES4 > ZSA in terms of natural/weighty and no harshness?


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## jeromeaparis (Jul 4, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Well I guess if you want an ED16, you need to get it quickly. Does this qualify as KZ's shortest product run ever? Apologies if this has already been covered, but might be useful for people who don't want to search back through previous posts:
> 
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-ed16-kz-zs7-review/



On your thephonograph link, there is a kind of "promo code" so that you can get an ED16 for 16$,
And it works, I've got a blue one for me !


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> So, ED16 > ES4 > ZSA in terms of natural/weighty and no harshness?


Yes...sort of.

ED16 resolves more and is more natural in bass presentation compared to ES4

ZSA is all about harmonic resolution whereas ED16 resolves instruments and characteristics.(mid presence is more with dip on 4kHz like ZSR but less in amount to cohesively join BA and Dynamic driver sound as BA tends to get little more quicker in this area, leaving dynamic behind).

ES4 is jack of all and master of none(except bass control and power)


----------



## audionab

qngee x2 or f.audio s1 or zhisan z3? 
currently i am leaning towards qngee x2 for low output impedance as i will mostly use iems with it

i posted this question on a relevant thread but its been 3 days and i didn't get a single reply there so i am posting this here at least i can get a opinion


----------



## loomisjohnson

HonorKirin said:


> I have the ZSE and ED9 (black version, brass filter used here) (both can be had at 7-8USD), but IMO ED9 is way more superior than the ZSE, based on my listening on my phone.
> The ZSE sounded sort of L-shaped to me and the bass sound loose compared to ED9. Not sure if mine have defective QC. I do found that guitar sounds more natural on ZSE however, and ZSE have way more bass than my ED9.
> Vocals and soundstage are better on ED9 and does not sound piercing to my ears.
> Sound isolation both are about the same, at least to me.
> The ZSE is more comfortable to my ears, although I'm using the starline tips on both.


+1. the zse actually improves a lot when amped (the bass tightens considerably), but it's inessential if you have other kzs + i found the fit kinda awkward. for less $$ the edr1 and edr2 are better built and sound better to me.


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## Zerohour88 (Jul 4, 2018)

audionab said:


> qngee x2 or f.audio s1 or zhisan z3?
> currently i am leaning towards qngee x2 for low output impedance as i will mostly use iems with it
> 
> i posted this question on a relevant thread but its been 3 days and i didn't get a single reply there so i am posting this here at least i can get a opinion



I'm pretty sure someone made a comparison of the qngee x2 over on the obscure DAP thread. Or at least measurements of it. @Nymphonomaniac had the F.Audio S1, I think, while @oneula have the Qngee x2 and zishan z3 (he liked the X2 better, iirc). You can check back a few pages on the thread. The shanling M0 is also a good choice.

in order not to get too out of topic, linking the measurements post here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/obscure-chinese-daps.720512/page-314#post-14173140

not conclusive, but honestly not surprising


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Mo Fiio X5 gen3 and mo 64audio


audionab said:


> qngee x2 or f.audio s1 or zhisan z3?
> currently i am leaning towards qngee x2 for low output impedance as i will mostly use iems with it
> 
> i posted this question on a relevant thread but its been 3 days and i didn't get a single reply there so i am posting this here at least i can get a opinion


----------



## Qualcheduno

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Mo Fiio X5 gen3 and mo 64audio


Are you seriously suggesting a 400 usd music player when all of his choices are in the 60-70 usd price range?


----------



## pbui44

Qualcheduno said:


> Are you seriously suggesting a 400 usd music player when all of his choices are in the 60-70 usd price range?



Hey, if listeners will use VE Monks with their AK240 and higher model DAPs, why shouldn’t people use their KZs with their $400 USD DAPs?


----------



## Zerohour88

pbui44 said:


> Hey, if listeners will use VE Monks with their AK240 and higher model DAPs, why shouldn’t people use their KZs with their $400 USD DAPs?



that's not really the problem. The other poster wanted a suggestion for sub $100 DAPs. So you can see why suggesting a $400 model would be considered, unhelpful, to put it lightly.


----------



## pbui44

Zerohour88 said:


> that's not really the problem. The other poster wanted a suggestion for sub $100 DAPs. So you can see why suggesting a $400 model would be considered, unhelpful, to put it lightly.



Hmmm...I see.  I guess I can make a recommendation, which is the Nintaus X10:

https://penonaudio.com/music-players/nintaus-x10.html?limit=100

Don’t forget to add a Penon Audio free gift (just a note that the X10 comes with decent earphones that don’t have detachable cables):

https://penonaudio.com/free-gift-for-5-years-anniversary.html


----------



## Spanish deaf guy

Listening to the es4's  I just received.....def. they are less sibilant than zs5 for sure ( but anyway, I dont find zs5's overly trebley as most people say, for for me they sound perfect)

They sound good to me, zs5 in my opinion has better bass and instrument separation but thesthese es4 are really really great. Good bass, very good details on the highs because of the armature....


I'll keep using them since they are new and the sound may change.....


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DocHoliday said:


> Place the felt/velvet inside the lid and store the container upside down (using the lid as the base) offering a complete window to your IEM.


Wow, amazing suggestion! <3


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ED16 with silver cable and spinfit 240.
> 
> It will do you justice...


Which silver cable? There are a couple... the braided fabric one?


----------



## phower (Jul 4, 2018)

I received  KZ ZSA that I ordered 2 weeks and it is my first BA equipped earphones in my life. I have never heard BA's before.
Did all the tests on audiocheck.net and seems to be wired properly and no mismatch between left and right drivers.

Initial impressions.

Not enough sub bass.
More revealing of highly compressed music.
Sound metallic when compared to dynamic drivers.
Could extract the _inner detail _that dynamic drivers fail to reproduce but it is not musical.
Cymbals are reproduced better than DDs.

So, from the inital impressions I don't think I would buy another BA equipped earphones unless this is a problem with ZSA. The FR of ZSA is actually on target and I don't think it is the issue.

A good recording and equipment should allow one to become entwined with the music and not stand in the way. KZ ZSA doesn't feel that way, too clinical.

I will post updates if my opinion changes with more listening.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 4, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> And if you want to avoid risk this, get the ibasso IT01...head and shoulders above the KZs and even hailed to be in a league with the $800 Sennheiser ie800. Got mine yesterday...blew me out of my boots. Fun tuning with a contagious, addictive sound signature. A keeper.


Shouldn't the IT01 be better than any KZ? It's a $100! My ED16 were $18 US and my ES4 $12.75 US. I guess it comes down to intelligence... do we invest in one amazing pair or give mediocre pairs? I picked the latter.


----------



## Slater (Jul 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> do we invest in one amazing pair or give mediocre pairs? I picked the latter.



I like to have a variety to choose from. Not only with sound profile, but also with IEM functionality and price.

Sure, it’s nice to have an amazing pair of all-BA IEMs for critical listening at home on the couch. I can drive them properly with a bulky DAP and headphone amplifier stack. And they can have a thick bulky braided cable that’s worn behind the ear, and I wouldn’t mind.

However, I went kayaking today and used my $2.65 KZ EDR1 and iPod Nano 6G in a ziplock baggie. If I got them wet or lost them in the river forever, I would not have cared in the least. Did they sound as good as my expensive ones? No, but they sure sounded good enough for their use.

Same with working out. I want something sweat proof, and preferably Bluetooth. Do I need “amazing sound”? Nope.

Likewise, when watching a movie I don’t want to screw with something I have to wear behind the ears, of deal with memory wires. I just pop in my $25 MEMT T5 earpods and it’s done. If I need to get up or answer a family member’s question, they are fast and easy to just pop in and out. I also need something that sounds good when driven from a basic laptop. My expensive pairs do not fit that bill.

What if I want to take a nap with music? I want something small that disappears in my ear. A giant bodied IEM like KZ ZSR won’t do. Something small like the $15 MEMT X5 works perfectly. It sounds plenty good enough for sleeping, and works well at low volume.

So with my lifestyle, it would honestly be a big PITA to only have “1 amazing  pair” and that’s it.

Do my numerous <$30 pairs - EDR1, X5, T5, modded BlitzWolf ES1, ZS6, ZSR, etc - sound as good as CA Andromedas? Uh, no. But they sure sound much better than average. I would not enjoy nor tolerate them if they sounded like dollar store garbage. But luckily they don’t.


----------



## KainHighwind

I want to buy an DAP less than $50 USD, is there any option, guys?


----------



## Slater

KainHighwind said:


> I want to buy an DAP less than $50 USD, is there any option, guys?



A number of options. I would ask on the obscure ChiFi DAP thread. They are the cheap DAP gurus over there


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Qualcheduno said:


> Are you seriously suggesting a 400 usd music player when all of his choices are in the 60-70 usd price range?


Oyiii...

I know, and @audionab lives near to my society/colony. And I said that to trigger him..

Lol


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Oyiii...
> 
> I know, and @audionab lives near to my society/colony. And I said that to trigger him..
> 
> Lol


apparently it failed


----------



## hiflofi

I've got paint chipping off the edges (mainly corners) of a black ZS6, revealing the silver underneath. Surprised since I didn't observe any wear and tear before. It's very minimal so whatever.


----------



## Slater

hiflofi said:


> I've got paint chipping off the edges (mainly corners) of a black ZS6, revealing the silver underneath. Surprised since I didn't observe any wear and tear before. It's very minimal so whatever.



It’s the standard anodizing that is wearing off; it’s not actually paint.

The only way to prevent it would have been if KZ used a different process called ‘hard anodizing’. It is more a more expensive finishing process, and not usually used for things like IEMs.

Hard anodizing is often used with items exposed to harsher conditions or high-wear, such as anodized aluminum cookware (pots/pans), tools, knife handles, aluminum gun parts, etc.

You can touch up the ZS6 body and keep it looking new with a Sharpie.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> It’s the standard anodizing that is wearing off; it’s not actually paint.
> 
> The only way to prevent it would have been if KZ used a different process called ‘hard anodizing’. It is more a more expensive finishing process, and not usually used for things like IEMs.
> 
> ...


Campfire uses hard anodizing hence zs6 is not a copy of Andromeda

LoL


----------



## chi-fi mel

Slater said:


> I like to have a variety to choose from. Not only with sound profile, but also with IEM functionality and price.
> 
> Sure, it’s nice to have an amazing pair of all-BA IEMs for critical listening at home on the couch. I can drive them properly with a bulky DAP and headphone amplifier stack. And they can have a thick bulky braided cable that’s worn behind the ear, and I wouldn’t mind.
> 
> ...


I agree. I have plenty of options and actually use a lot of IEMs, one for indoors, another for outdoors, one for lying in bed, and different choices depending if I'm listening to music vs watching a movie, or a short session vs an extended session. KZ offers remarkable value. If you spend 5 times more you might find something with a sound you prefer, but most of the time you won't, and then you'll buy something for 5 times more again and it starts to add up. Trust me, I've been there.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Campfire uses hard anodizing hence zs6 is not a copy of Andromeda
> 
> LoL



Andromedas still easily show signs of wear and tear though.


----------



## s8grave

Not hard enough anodizing)

Everyone who wanted to order ED16 - recommend to order them, cause I heard some rumors around runet forums that it is not produced and can be sold out(I don't believe it, BUT)
And don't forget to order the upgrade cable, cause the stock one is not that great(and it has type A connector(smaller than ES4, ZS10 etc.), and only KZ ZSA(from new lineup) cable is compatible with ED16)
If you like a bright, detailed and airy sound - it's great set of IEMs.


----------



## CoiL

s8grave said:


> If you like a bright, detailed and airy sound - it's great set of IEMs.


Hmmm, seems like totally different signature from ES4.... which makes  me wonder why even ppl compare those "better than this, better than that".


----------



## mbwilson111

s8grave said:


> Not hard enough anodizing)
> 
> Everyone who wanted to order ED16 - recommend to order them, cause I heard some rumors around runet forums that it is not produced and can be sold out(I don't believe it, BUT)
> And don't forget to order the upgrade cable, cause the stock one is not that great(and it has type A connector(smaller than ES4, ZS10 etc.), and only KZ ZSA(from new lineup) cable is compatible with ED16)
> If you like a bright, detailed and airy sound - it's great set of IEMs.



Enjoyed the photos.  I love how each cable compliments the color of each of your iems. That is important Very helpful info regarding the cable.  I was using a ZSA cable but I was only borrowing it.  I am now using one of the grey upgrade cables with the A connector.

It is interesting that the ZSA cable is angled but is smaller than the other angled cables. I wonder if there is a replacement option for that. All the others that will fit the ED16 are the straight one like you said...like on my ZS6.

Usually the word "bright" turns me off but the treble on these is not painful to me.



hiflofi said:


> I've got paint chipping off the edges (mainly corners) of a black ZS6, revealing the silver underneath. Surprised since I didn't observe any wear and tear before. It's very minimal so whatever.



I will try to be very careful with my green ZS6.



Slater said:


> You can touch up the ZS6 body and keep it looking new with a Sharpie.



I wonder if there is a green sharpie to match the green ZS6.  So far mine is perfect.



SomeTechNoob said:


> Andromedas still easily show signs of wear and tear though



Wow!  That photo is horrifying.  That should not happen on such an expensive iem.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jul 5, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Hmmm, seems like totally different signature from ES4.... which makes  me wonder why even ppl compare those "better than this, better than that".


Well true, but I still think KZ ES4 is still better than ES3 and ZST.

Don't tell that they are going to stop the ED16. It hurts

And andro don't get that bad from my experience


----------



## Happytalk

Picked one (ED16) up for $20 with upgraded cable. (due to eBay bucks discount). Looking forward to hearing these. My first KZ purchase. I am an etymotic user, but I like having some other iems around for phone calls and casual listening.


----------



## neo_styles

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Well true, but I still think KZ ES4 is still better than ES3 and ZST.
> 
> Don't tell that they are going to stop the ED16. It hurts
> 
> And andro don't get that bad from my experience


That's what the Phonograph Review I posted earlier was hinting at. Glad I ordered my pair before that news broke


----------



## neo_styles

Also, for the tip-rollers here, looks like Massdrop just went ham on pricing for Dekoni's foam tips. I'd suggest a pair for around-the-house use. Definitely helps with confirm on some of those more painful pairs:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dekoni-bulletz-earphone-tips


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I want a NiceHCK bro blue version(transparent blue)

Can anybody compare it to KZ ES4 and ED16


----------



## Slater

SomeTechNoob said:


> Andromedas still easily show signs of wear and tear though.



Correct, that's not hard anodizing.

Sorry @dhruvmeena96, CA is doing exactly the same thing as KZ in that regard.

Look at the bottom of a hard anodized cooking pan. You can beat the snot out of it for years on a stove, storing it with other cookware, tapping it against other pans, and having it come into contact with metal cooking utensils. It will look practically new. Hard anodizing actually changes the hardness of the aluminum at the surface.

Here's another way to tell. If you were to scrape off some of the anodized top color (red, blue, gold, etc) on a hard anodized part, the aluminum underneath wouldn't be silver. As a result of the heat-treating portion of the hard anodizing process, the aluminum changes from bright silver to a dark greyish black or sometimes a greyish bronze color.

I'd be willing to bet that no IEM manufacturer is hard anodizing their product, at any price. It's just overkill and there's just no reason to do it on an IEM.

If you guys want scratch-proof aluminum housings, a Titanium Nitride instead of anodizing coating would be the way to go (however, the colors of Titanium Nitride are much more limited). Otherwise, you could just make the housing out of ceramic (zirconia) like the Sennheiser ie800 or Rock Zircon.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jul 5, 2018)

SomeTechNoob said:


> Andromedas still easily show signs of wear and tear though.



A picture is worth a thousand..................dollars?




Slater said:


> Otherwise, you could just make the housing out of ceramic (zirconia) like the Sennheiser ie800 or Rock Zircon.



I've been beating this drum for a little while now.

In the meantime the ED15, ZS6 and ZSA are fine examples of well-made IEM housings at any price and I'd like to see KZ continue on this path of the "full metal jacket" (back to their roots).


Now:


Spoiler





 


 







Then:


Spoiler


----------



## ShakyJake

@Otto Motor posted a nice review of the ED16 over in the Chinese / Asian thread. 

Otto, we miss you here in this thread!

I can't wait to get my ED16s. It's on a "slow boat from China" ...


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Jul 5, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Shouldn't the IT01 be better than any KZ? It's a $100! My ED16 were $18 US and my ES4 $12.75 US. I guess it comes down to intelligence... do we invest in one amazing pair or give mediocre pairs? I picked the latter.


I guess it depends on the use case. I only ever use IEMs outside of the house and when they're not in my ears they're in my pocket. I've owned IEMs that cost hundreds of dollars and have actually found their cables to be less durable than most Chi-Fi IEMs I've owned. Not everything high-end has replaceable cables and non-replaceable is no more durable. Having something you spent a lot of money on die after a few months is not something I want to experience again.

I also think the best of Chi-Fi can easily beat many of the more expensive IEMs in sound quality. If it doesn't beat it, then the difference in typical listening conditions of a noisy environment are minimal.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Having something you spent a lot of money on die after a few months is not something I want to experience again.
> 
> I also think the best of Chi-Fi can easily beat many of the more expensive IEMs in sound quality. If it doesn't beat it, then the difference in typical listening conditions of a noisy environment are minimal.


I wish I could help you with your headphone broken heart but I'm not a headphone. I wish!  Chi-Fi is sure doing the world proud with their high-quality products. I can't find such things for those prices in Canada. It seems like companies here are selling dollar store headphones for $20+ and it's ridiculous. Only people into ChiFi know and that's even sadder.

Which expensive headphones would you be referring to in your post that would compare to a ChiFi that is much cheaper?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ShakyJake said:


> @Otto Motor posted a nice review of the ED16 over in the Chinese / Asian thread.
> 
> Otto, we miss you here in this thread!
> 
> I can't wait to get my ED16s. It's on a "slow boat from China" ...


Why did you allow them to take the romantic route instead of the classier route? Is that the kind of romance you have your headphones, no class??  China Air Post or E-Packet is best for North America.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

neo_styles said:


> Also, for the tip-rollers here, looks like Massdrop just went ham on pricing for Dekoni's foam tips. I'd suggest a pair for around-the-house use. Definitely helps with confirm on some of those more painful pairs:
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dekoni-bulletz-earphone-tips


A single pair of tips for $10? No thanks.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

s8grave said:


> And don't forget to order the upgrade cable, cause the stock one is not that great(and it has type A connector(smaller than ES4, ZS10 etc.), and only KZ ZSA(from new lineup) cable is compatible with ED16)


How has the sound of the ED16 changed with your new cable? The stock one sounds fine to me.


----------



## Wiljen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A single pair of tips for $10? No thanks.



With foams generally having a very limited lifespan, I'd be hesitant to pay that for them.  I usually avoid Comply for the same reason.   @Slater should be along with a link for 1000 Foam tips for something ridiculous like $3 at any moment.


----------



## neo_styles

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A single pair of tips for $10? No thanks.


It's a 3-pack...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

chi-fi mel said:


> I agree. I have plenty of options and actually use a lot of IEMs, one for laying in bed,


A true audiophile wears headphones while they're making love in bed. Good job!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

neo_styles said:


> It's a 3-pack...


No, it's not. One pair of small, one pair of medium, one pair of large. I'm pretty sure my ears are Large and won't fit Medium or a Small. Hence you're only getting one pair you can use for 10 bucks. No thanks.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> What if I want to take a nap with music? I want something small that disappears in my ear. A giant bodied IEM like KZ ZSR won’t do. Something small like the $15 MEMT X5 works perfectly. It sounds plenty good enough for sleeping, and works well at low volume.


If you sleep with headphones on it's calling burning in your headphones.


----------



## neo_styles

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No, it's not. One pair of small, one pair of medium, one pair of large. I'm pretty sure my ears are Large and won't fit Medium or a Small. Hence you're only getting one pair you can use for 10 bucks. No thanks.


I really don't feel like having an internet argument today. Please read all of the drop information before you make claims like this. Dekoni only sells in packs of 3.


----------



## psygeist

I can listen to ES14 for extended hours. ED16 sparkle is piercing to me for longer run. ES4's mids are lush and smooth. ED16 sounds thin. ES4 is more fun in the bass range.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How has the sound of the ED16 changed with your new cable? The stock one sounds fine to me.



I changed the cable on my ED16 because it was not comfortable around my ear.  It would not sit right for me.  Sound was fine.


----------



## eruditass (Jul 5, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No, it's not. One pair of small, one pair of medium, one pair of large. I'm pretty sure my ears are Large and won't fit Medium or a Small. Hence you're only getting one pair you can use for 10 bucks. No thanks.



I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you couldn't access the drop page.  They give you the option between a 3 pack of one size or one of each size.



> Note: At checkout, you’ll have your choice between the Gemini Series (3mm tips) and the Mercury Series (4.9mm tips) in size S, M, L, or Multipack (includes one of each size).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

neo_styles said:


> I really don't feel like having an internet argument today. Please read all of the drop information before you make claims like this. Dekoni only sells in packs of 3.


This isn't an argument. I made an honest mistake in believing something that may not be true which I haven't confirmed yet. I will look into it. Thanks.


----------



## groucho69

LaughMoreDaily said:


> This isn't an argument. I made an honest mistake in believing something that may not be true which I haven't confirmed yet. I will look into it. Thanks.


----------



## ShakyJake

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why did you allow them to take the romantic route instead of the classier route? Is that the kind of romance you have your headphones, no class??  China Air Post or E-Packet is best for North America.



I did use E-Packet, but even though I ordered on June 14th, during the lates Ali sale, they have still not shown up...


----------



## Viber

Seems like im a bit outta touch...
What's the deal with this KZ BT cable:
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009300506273.html?wid=1433363

Anyone tried it?  how's the sound quality?  battery lasts for 8 hours of music playback like they say?


----------



## Wiljen (Jul 5, 2018)

Got a review sample ES4 from Gearbest today.   Gonna leave them on overnight with some pink noise and then get started with them.   The ZS10 lineage is definitely visible but the size is enough smaller that I am already liking them more than Zs10 as far as fit is concerned.  Looking at the driver arrangement, I am expecting the evolution of the Zst

Well quick notes from initial listening. 

1.) This is what KZ should focus on.   No need for 9 driver per side  - just get two drivers right.

2.)  The Es4 has a lot to like.  Strong Bass, good detail, reasonable treble extension without a harsh tone.   Not reference flat by any sense, but a very good listenable signature.

3.) There is a some mid-bass bleed and a coherency issue right at the cross-over.  This can dissappear if tracks don't have a lot going on in the mids but becomes more evident with tracks that are mid-centric.  I have a couple of Haydn brass quartet tracks with Baritone, Trombone, trumpet, and French horn that really accentuate the issue right at the cross-over.  Conversely, my classic rock collection rarely makes the flaw show at all.

So far, I am impressed with the ES4 when compared to ZsR and Zs10.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Wiljen said:


> Got a review sample ES4 from Gearbest today.


Is pink noise better to use than say just playing music at average volume to burn headphones?


----------



## s8grave

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How has the sound of the ED16 changed with your new cable? The stock one sounds fine to me.


New cable sounds MAYBE sliiiiightly brighter and I agree with* mbwilson111* it is a good upgrade in terms of comfort.


----------



## RolledOff (Jul 6, 2018)

just got the ED16
using the default tip and stock cable, no problem with the fit
and i like the ED16 tuning, even better than ZSR 
i don't understand how this ED16 flopped on chinese market 

it came with KZ ZSA, not yet opened, but i don't have high expectation for ZSA


----------



## Shaolinjordan

Just bought the ed16. Can anyone comment on the bluetooth cable SQ - worth getting? Thanks


----------



## CYoung234 (Jul 6, 2018)

RolledOff said:


> just got the ED16
> using the default tip and stock cable, no problem with the fit
> and i like the ED16 tuning, even better than ZSR
> i don't understand how this ED16 flopped on chinese market
> ...



Likewise, I like the tuning. I received mine earlier this week, but have waited to post about it because I have a cold as well.

I did a short test comparing the ZS6, ZS10 and ED16, and it is too early to tell which is my favorite. Note that I am using Neutralizer, with separate profiles for each one, using my Nexus 6p as source. Overall, I think it may still be the ZS6, which is really wowing me again. The ZS6, with a little help from Neutralizer, is actually pretty balanced for different genres of music. The ED16 seems to have stronger low bass, but I need to double check my Neutralizer profile for it to be sure I did not artificially pump it up. The ZS10 is somewhere in the middle, which can be an advantage, as it tends to disappear the best, leaving me to just enjoy the music. I need to do more testing and listening, as I tend to forget details about what I liked and did not like pretty fast. Iy is also easier to just compare two different iems rather than 3...

Oh, by the way, to the moderators - can you please consider lifting the ban on @Otto Motor? I think he has learned his lesson, and his banter is missed here... For example, I made a post the other day where I noted that the KZ ED16 was available on Amazon from a certain seller, and had no idea that this was the banned seller. I was thinking the banned sellers were only on Aliexpress. Otto pointed that out to me right away so I was able to edit my post. Thanks for your consideration of this.


----------



## Wiljen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is pink noise better to use than say just playing music at average volume to burn headphones?



In as much as any of it does anything, yes.  Technically speaking just playing music does not make certain that every possible frequency is played during the session.  Pink noise does make sure the entire range is exercised during playback and does so in a way that mimics most natural sound patterns where the higher the frequency the lower the energy carried.   White noise would exercise the entire range but does so with equal energy at all frequencies which is less realistic.    Think about the car passing by with the music going - what is it you hear from a distance?  it isnt all frequencies equally - its mostly low-end.


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yes...sort of.
> 
> ED16 resolves more and is more natural in bass presentation compared to ES4
> 
> ...



So, I currently have the KZ ATE and I really like the fit and power of the bass, but I still feel that everything is somewhat muddy compared to my Piston IV. The Pistons however lack the bass I'm looking for. I'm looking for a somewhat similar sound profile to the original Xiaomi Piston 2.0 and was wondering if the KZ ED16 will be able to deliver this. Is there a good, powerful and clear bass on these earphones?


----------



## HUGO SILVA

Hello friends, what is the best kz for listening to modern POP music like Demi Lovato, Rita Ora, Dua lipa? I like warm sonority, exuberant with female voices, soft treble. thank you so much.


----------



## Wiljen

HUGO SILVA said:


> Hello friends, what is the best kz for listening to modern POP music like Demi Lovato, Rita Ora, Dua lipa? I like warm sonority, exuberant with female voices, soft treble. thank you so much.



One where both ear pieces are broken and produce no sound.

sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## Danfish98

Wiljen said:


> One where both ear pieces are broken and produce no sound.
> 
> sorry, couldn't resist.


Hahahahahaha, that response got a literal lol from me. For a KZ with soft treble the zs10 fits the bill.


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jul 6, 2018)

ZS6 equalized is still the best sounding KZ. Most open and largest soundstage, best details and most enjoyable to listen too. I'm enjoying it as much as the IT01 and like it better than the R2 that is considered better. Second would be ED16 but they don't sound as open and upper mids, lower highs get harsh. I still can't get into ES4, the lack of details is off putting. Metal tracks sound like a congested mess, all the cymbal tones are merged into the same "tssss" noise which, while not loud or sibilant, sounds overemphasized and annoying to me, very hard to tell any details. ZS10 are the least enjoyable, very nasal and congested.

I just purchased another pair of ZS6 so I have a spare in case they go bad, that's how much I'm enjoying them. Without equalizer they are painful to listen too and I'm not really enjoying them, with EQ they truly shine, people not using EQ are missing out. You do need a 10 band EQ minimum to make them shine.


----------



## Tweeters

HerrXRDS said:


> ZS6 equalized is still the best sounding KZ. Most open and largest soundstage, best details and most enjoyable to listen too. I'm enjoying it as much as the IT01 and like it better than the R2 that is considered better. Second would be ED16 but they don't sound as open and upper mids, lower highs get harsh. I still can't get into ES4, the lack of details is off putting. Metal tracks sound like a congested mess, all the cymbal tones are merged into the same "tssss" noise which, while not loud or sibilant, sounds overemphasized and annoying to me, very hard to tell any details. ZS10 are the least enjoyable, very nasal and congested.
> 
> 
> 
> I just purchased another pair of ZS6 so I have a spare in case they go bad, that's how much I'm enjoying them. Without equalizer they are painful to listen too and I'm not really enjoying them, with EQ they truly shine, people not using EQ are missing out. You do need a 10 band EQ minimum to make them shine.



Care to share your ZS6 EQ settings?


----------



## CoiL

psygeist said:


> I can listen to ES14 for extended hours. *ED16 sparkle is piercing to me for longer run.* ES4's mids are lush and smooth. *ED16 sounds thin.* ES4 is more fun in the bass range.


That`s what I was suspecting it would sound to me. 


Wiljen said:


> 1.) This is what KZ should focus on.   No need for 9 driver per side  - just get two drivers right.
> 2.)  The Es4 has a lot to like.  Strong Bass, good detail, reasonable treble extension without a harsh tone.   Not reference flat by any sense, but a very good listenable signature.


+1


Wiljen said:


> 3.) There is a some* mid-bass bleed and a coherency issue* right at the cross-over.  This can dissappear if tracks don't have a lot going on in the mids but becomes more evident with tracks that are mid-centric.  I have a couple of Haydn brass quartet tracks with Baritone, Trombone, trumpet, and French horn that really accentuate the issue right at the cross-over.


Weird, I can`t hear it with my ES4 with busy&complex progressive rock tracks (for example Steven Wilson).


HerrXRDS said:


> ED16 but they don't sound as open and *upper mids, lower highs get harsh*.


Once again - that`s what I was suspecting it would sound to me.


HerrXRDS said:


> I still can't get into ES4, the *lack of details is off putting. Metal tracks sound like a congested mess, all the cymbal tones are merged into the same "tssss" noise which, while not loud or sibilant, sounds overemphasized and annoying to me,* very hard to tell any details.


And once again - I can`t hear it with my ES4 with busy&complex progressive rock tracks (for example Steven Wilson, Seven Impale etc.).
Otto is also having different "harsh" experience as I am.
Are we dealing some kind of different batches/versions, QC with BA? Hmmm...
Anyway, I like my ES4 a lot. One of the best KZs to me I`ve heard, especially in midrange FR area.
KZ should take ES4 FR and try to tune even better (more micro-details & little more neutral).


----------



## HungryPanda

The most used KZ's by me are the ES4 and ZSA right now


----------



## eruditass (Jul 6, 2018)

CoiL said:


> And once again - I can`t hear it with my ES4 with busy&complex progressive rock tracks (for example Steven Wilson, Seven Impale etc.).
> Otto is also having different "harsh" experience as I am.
> Are we dealing some kind of different batches/versions, QC with BA? Hmmm...
> Anyway, I like my ES4 a lot. One of the best KZs to me I`ve heard, especially in midrange FR area.
> KZ should take ES4 FR and try to tune even better (more micro-details & little more neutral).



You mentioned earlier wide bore tips and removing the filter being important, perhaps try using some narrow bore tips and putting the filters back and see if you can reproduce their experience?

And maybe a phase check...


----------



## Slater (Jul 6, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> The most used KZ's by me are the ES4 and ZSA right now



So ZSA is that good? No one talks about it anymore. It all seems to be about the ED16 nowadays

I’d love to know how the ZSA compares to the ZS6, as well how it compares to other capable aluminum-bodied triple driver IEMs.


----------



## HungryPanda

Well it is like a son of the ZS6, has learned to be a little more polite. Still got a great sound stage as for the capable aluminum-bodied triple driver I have not had the pleasure


----------



## groucho69

HungryPanda said:


> Well it is like a son of the ZS6, has learned to be a little more polite. Still got a great sound stage as for the capable aluminum-bodied triple driver I have not had the pleasure



I'm sure Mrs Panda will share


----------



## pbui44 (Jul 6, 2018)

For those with a KZ ZS6 and have problems with them gradually falling out, try using an ear tip that is a size smaller than what you usually use.  The ZS6 has a deeper nozzle body than many earphones, as the sloping part of the aluminum body allows the more narrow part of the nozzle to go deeper into your ear canal.  For those who usually use small size ear tips, you can get SpinFit CP100Z Extra Small ear tips here:

https://www.amazon.com/SpinFit-CP100Z-Patented-Silicone-Replacement/dp/B0797N4S4V?th=1

For a complete 4-size set of CP100 ear tips, check out this SpinFit SS-S-M-L set for the SS ear tips here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aliexpress.com/item/32814040714.html#ampf=undefined


----------



## pbui44

For those who want to know what I use with my KZ ZS6, it is the Sennheiser double flange ear tips, which you can get the generics (originals are nowhere to be found, except with certain Sennheiser models) in small, medium, or large sizes here:

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Replacement-Double-Flange-Silicone/dp/B00S0NKE28

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Replacement-Double-Flange-Silicone/dp/B00S0QPE66

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Replacement-Double-Flange-Silicone/dp/B00RYSHXG0


----------



## CoiL

DoomzDayz said:


> You mentioned earlier wide bore tips and removing the filter being important, perhaps try using some narrow bore tips and putting the filters back and see if you can reproduce their experience?


Like I said before, removing nozzle grills effect in very minor and hardly noticeable. There is no filter in ES4 nozzle, only grills.
And I see no point in using narrow bore tips with this kind of signature - it only affects sound bad way. 
ES4 needs wide bore tips and neutral/brightish source + some amping (not much effect though) to sound nice.


----------



## TJK81

@CoiL Agree... ZS6's sound very harsh and bright with my DF without EQ-ing (i don'l like it). In fact DF is slightly V shaped sound amp.
But ES4+DF+spin fits sounds reeeeeeeeally great.
I like to listen to some classic and prog.rock albums (Genesis, B,S&T, Porcupine tree, Gratefull Dead, Jethro Tull etc as well as jazz albums from John Coltrane, M.Davis, Keith Jarrett) and have to say i'm not not missing some giant amout of detail. They are really fun to listen to, they are IMO very well tuned for a sub 20bucks IEM. They are always laying next to my notebook ready to 'seduce' me. My wife is ready on the other side


----------



## Dickymint

Slater said:


> So ZSA is that good? No one talks about it anymore. It all seems to be about the ED16 nowadays
> 
> I’d love to know how the ZSA compares to the ZS6, as well how it compares to other capable aluminum-bodied triple driver IEMs.


Personally I like the ZS6 but it's a tad harsh, while the ZSA, once warmed up, digs so deep into the detail,it gives me goosebumps. Of course that could be just the wife being near...


----------



## Wiljen (Jul 7, 2018)

I'll put some spiral dots on ES4 when I get done with stock review and see what difference it makes compared to KZ stars.


No, I won't be doing that after all - bass monster and drowns out any semblance of mids.  Back to the Stars.


----------



## CoiL

Wiljen said:


> I'll put some spiral dots on ES4 when I get done with stock review and see what difference it makes compared to KZ stars.
> No, I won't be doing that after all - *bass monster and drowns out any semblance of mids*.  Back to the Stars.


With wide bore spiral dots? That`s weird... Auvio wide-bore have same results with Your ES4?
What size tips are You using? I`m again suspecting that ppl with large tips have different result as ppl with small tips. My ES4 turns more balanced, no bass monster or mids degrading when using wide-bore S size tips and deep fit.


----------



## Slater (Jul 7, 2018)

CoiL said:


> With wide bore spiral dots? That`s weird... Auvio wide-bore have same results with Your ES4?
> What size tips are You using? I`m again suspecting that ppl with large tips have different result as ppl with small tips. My ES4 turns more balanced, no bass monster or mids degrading when using wide-bore S size tips and deep fit.



I think the key might be your last statement - you’re using Auvio S and a deep fit.

The small Auvios have a long  ore that site flush with the bottom of the tip. With the large size, the core sits down inside of the silicone (causing a shallower fit).

I wish some tips didn’t do this. Just make it so the core sits in the same dang spot (when looking at the tip from the bottom) on ALL of the sizes. It would make comparisons between people more consistent, because it affects the insertion depth!


----------



## nihontoman

Viber said:


> Seems like im a bit outta touch...
> What's the deal with this KZ BT cable:
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009300506273.html?wid=1433363
> 
> Anyone tried it?  how's the sound quality?  battery lasts for 8 hours of music playback like they say?


just ordered one from Aliexpress for 17-ish$.  will get back to you on how they sound with zs5 v1.


----------



## eruditass (Jul 7, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Like I said before, removing nozzle grills effect in very minor and hardly noticeable. There is no filter in ES4 nozzle, only grills.
> And I see no point in using narrow bore tips with this kind of signature - it only affects sound bad way.
> ES4 needs wide bore tips and neutral/brightish source + some amping (not much effect though) to sound nice.



My point was to find out the cause of the discrepancy not better sound.  The ones you are using are not stock, correct?  Insertion depth also matters.  All of these things drastically affect IEM sound

Of course we could chalk it up to different ears or QA


----------



## Onik

Can the iems can get dammaged if I use it on high gain mode on my portable amp?


----------



## kimi7

I received the KZ ES4 two days ago, very equilibrated overall and very good detail. The only downside is sth strange between 5-7kHz, maybe related to the crossover point? Anyway it's a big step up from the KZ ATE that I used for 3 years.

I leave a review and impressions video, later next week I will make another video only for audio impressions.


----------



## Slater

Onik said:


> Can the iems can get dammaged if I use it on high gain mode on my portable amp?



If you max the volume at 100%, sure. Any headphone can be damaged with enough volume.

But assuming you keep the volume at normal human listening levels, it will be just fine. I use high gain all of the time.


----------



## NeonHD (Jul 7, 2018)

Hey guys is there a mod for the KZ HDS3 that reduces the upper bass bloat? It's a shame cause I really want to use my HDS3 more often but the upper bass to lower mids region sound too bloaty and nasaly. I tried an extensive amount of tip rolling but to no avail.

Tagging @CoiL cause you're the master of IEM modding


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Hey guys is there a mod for the KZ HDS3 that reduces the upper bass bloat? It's a shame cause I really want to use my HDS3 more often but the upper bass to lower mids region sound too bloaty and nasaly. I tried an extensive amount of tip rolling but to no avail.
> 
> Tagging @CoiL cause you're the master of IEM modding



Hmmm, mine don’t have any upper bass bloat that I’ve ever heard.

Out of curiosity, what source are you using? And have you tried amping them?


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> Hmmm, mine don’t have any upper bass bloat that I’ve ever heard.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what source are you using? And have you tried amping them?



I used it both on my Android phone and my Xduoo X2, and still has that accentuated upper bass on either one. I don't have an amp.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> I used it both on my Android phone and my Xduoo X2, and still has that accentuated upper bass on either one. I don't have an amp.



Gotcha.

Let's see what @loomisjohnson says. He's the other resident HDS3 guru, and likes his as much as I like mine


----------



## RolledOff

Following Slater suggestion, I bought 100gr aluminium cans with transparent lid for my iems collection. It's around $0.7 apiece in my country. 
Good for large iems like ZSR.
The collection quickly outgrow the small plastic box I had when I started join head-fi lol


Spoiler: Alu cans


----------



## Slater

RolledOff said:


> Following Slater suggestion, I bought 100gr aluminium cans with transparent lid for my iems collection. It's around $0.7 apiece in my country.
> Good for large iems like ZSR.
> The collection quickly outgrow the small plastic box I had when I started join head-fi lol
> 
> ...



That looks awesome!

Man, after seeing yours I wish I got the ones with the clear windows now


----------



## loomisjohnson

NeonHD said:


> Hey guys is there a mod for the KZ HDS3 that reduces the upper bass bloat? It's a shame cause I really want to use my HDS3 more often but the upper bass to lower mids region sound too bloaty and nasaly. I tried an extensive amount of tip rolling but to no avail.
> 
> Tagging @CoiL cause you're the master of IEM modding


guru say: the hds3 can be tuned by changing tips and, particularly, adjusting depth of insertion--wider tips and shallower insertion seems to better control the low end, but i'd experiment as you'll be able to coax markedly different results from the same iem


----------



## nxnje

So guys..
If u had to compare zsr, zsa and ed16 what would u pick?
Is there much difference between these and zz6?


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> With wide bore spiral dots? That`s weird... Auvio wide-bore have same results with Your ES4?
> What size tips are You using? I`m again suspecting that ppl with large tips have different result as ppl with small tips. My ES4 turns more balanced, no bass monster or mids degrading when using wide-bore S size tips and deep fit.



I wear the biggest size they make so my tips were the Spiral Dot Large.   I tried with the Auvio as well and it was not as pronounced but still did not do the sound signature any favors.  Overly bass present at the expense of bass bleed into the mids


----------



## Wiljen

I think I may have found a portion of the issue.  I took a pair of the Auvio tips and cut the stems so they fit flush with the tip of the nozzle rather than the nozzle being recessed about 2mm as it is normally.  This cuts down on the bass that washes out the mids.  Still very V shaped but definitely cleaner.  it is almost as if the distance from nozzle to opening of the tip is creating an echo or reflection.


----------



## psygeist

CoiL said:


> One of the best KZs to me I`ve heard, especially in midrange FR area.


Yeah, to me the mids are best of any KZ I have ever tried. The only sore point was the mids in KZ lineup. Bass is already pretty good. And the piercing highs are not an issue with ES4. A pretty composed IEM. Closer to JVC FXT90 but a bit relaxed.




CoiL said:


> And I see no point in using narrow bore tips with this kind of signature - it only affects sound bad way.
> ES4 needs wide bore tips and neutral/brightish source + some amping (not much effect though) to sound nice.


I am using wide bore tips. Wide bore tips are the best for this IEM.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I think I may have found a portion of the issue.  I took a pair of the Auvio tips and cut the stems so they fit flush with the tip of the nozzle rather than the nozzle being recessed about 2mm as it is normally.  This cuts down on the bass that washes out the mids.  Still very V shaped but definitely cleaner.  it is almost as if the distance from nozzle to opening of the tip is creating an echo or reflection.



Very good point. It's a tuning tip that people often overlook when tip rolling. It can and will affect the sound (and just like anything, sometimes for the better, sometimes foe the worse).

You usually don't have to cut the tip though. Often, you can just push the tip down the nozzle until it is even. It depends on the IEM though.

@CoiL beautifully illustrates it here on a his FF-modded ATE:


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> @CoiL beautifully illustrates it here on a his FF-modded ATE


This one @ pic is not FF-modded. With FF You don`t need to mess with tips. Just for clarification.

But yeah, tips and their insertion depth, size, bore size, material etc, can affect sound in big way.
Seems that ppl with large ears & ear-canals need shorter/on level tip lip extension over nozzle edge with L-size tips and ppl with small ears & ear-canals rather longer extension over nozzle edge with S-size tips... both cases with deep fit. AT least that`s what I conclude from observation from different reviews with different size ears. I`m generalizing and not claiming truth here.

Anyway, I still can`t call ES4 clear V-shape FR... to me it is something between neutral and V-shape. Well balanced with no overdone bass or highs. Mellow natural sound with good imaging and over average soundstage.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jul 8, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I think I may have found a portion of the issue.  I took a pair of the Auvio tips and cut the stems so they fit flush with the tip of the nozzle rather than the nozzle being recessed about 2mm as it is normally.  This cuts down on the bass that washes out the mids.  Still very V shaped but definitely cleaner.  it is almost as if the distance from nozzle to opening of the tip is creating an echo or reflection.






Slater said:


> Very good point. It's a tuning tip that people often overlook when tip rolling. It can and will affect the sound (and just like anything, sometimes for the better, sometimes foe the worse).
> 
> You usually don't have to cut the tip though. Often, you can just push the tip down the nozzle until it is even. It depends on the IEM though.
> 
> @CoiL beautifully illustrates it here on a his FF-modded ATE:




For those new to the thread that aren't familiar with these issues.

About IEMs:


Spoiler



Take note when you read IEM reviews that when the reviewer gives his/her opinion regarding the sound that there are many factors that shape the final sound an IEM delivers to one's ear.

Those factors include:
1 - Shape & size of reviewer's ear canals. (shallow/deep, wide/narrow)
2 - Shape & size of eartips (round/cone, single, double or triple flange)
3 - Materials of eartips (silicone/foam)
4 - Shape of IEM (and/or angle of nozzle) can cause fitment issues for some.
5 - Source (quality of DAC in smartphone, laptop, digital audio player)
6 - Source (power rating) is it amplified/unamplified.
7 - The IEM itself (driver flex/trapping air in canal causing muffled sound.
8 - The Reviewers ability to hear all frequency ranges (age plays a factor).

Most consumers are unaware of how much weight each of these factors hold in rendering a final verdict. This is why there is such a wide variance in not only ratings, but the description of an IEMs sound. An unaware consumer purchases a perfectly fine IEM but has difficulty keeping the IEM in the ear or he/she does not satisfactorily seal the ear canal with the included silicone eartips (this is a common occurrence) and the consumer summarily dismisses the IEM as sub par. Another consumer purchases the same IEM but experiences a perfect fit and seal and has nothing but praise for the same IEM. Sealing the ear canals AND HAVING THE EARTIP FIRMLY AFFIXED to the IEM nozzle is the only proper way to use in-ear monitors. I can think of no audio equipment that is subjected to such praise or ridicule as the in-ear monitor. As if that's not enough, there is no "one-size-fits-all" when it comes to IEM eartips.

Materials (silicone/foam) have different dampening effects on final sound.
Shape of the eartips (olive-shaped, cone-shaped or other-shaped) can have different dampening effects on final sound 

"based on how much space is between the IEM nozzle and your eardrum"

A shallow and wide ear canal.


 


A deeper and more narrow ear canal.


 

[think of it as a subwoofer enclosure when the ear canal is sealed]


Be aware that the aperture of the eartip (wide-bore/narrow-bore) will effect the final sound.

The easiest way for you to experience the different effects I am discussing is to take your current on-ear headphones or over-ear headphones, pick a song full of energy, put the earphones on and let them sit naturally over or on your ears. Listen to the music for two minutes. After two minutes, using your hands, slightly press the headphones closer to your eardrums. Notice the change in the sound. Is there more/less bass? Is there more/less treble? Did the vocals slightly slip forward/back?

Consider that on-ear and over-ear headphones have a driver that sits approximately 1 1/2 inches to 2 inches from your eardrums and by pressing the headphones 1/4" closer to your eardrums the sound changed. Now consider that an IEM driver sits anywhere from 3/4" to 1/4" from your eardrums and the slightest changes (angle, depth, shape, material) can have up to three times more of an effect due to the proximity of the IEM to the eardrum.

For this reason, I think it is wise to invest a nominal dollar amount on different eartips to find an eartip that works well for your particular ear's anatomy. This way you experience everything the earphone tuner intended for you to experience. Some IEM manufacturers supply multiple sizes (S/M/L) and/or materials (silicone/foam) of eartips to increase the odds that the consumer achieves a satisfactory seal, but even this is not foolproof. If this information holds any interest for you, there are a plethora of aftermarket eartip brands to look into, such as "JVC Spiral Dots", "Spinfits", "Comply Foam Eartips" or "Znari Foam Eartips", "Creative Aurvana" and others. If you really want to fine tune things, then you might find yourself doing what I do, which is scouring Amazon for inexpensive earphones that appear to have silicone eartips that have a shape that typically work well with my ear's anatomy.



Hope this was helpful.


----------



## CoiL

DocHoliday said:


> For those new to the thread that aren't familiar with these issues.
> 
> About IEMs:
> 
> ...



This should be sticky @ several threads!


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like the TRN-V80 is now available on AliExpress. Wonder what it will be like? They have labeled it as flagship, reference-class and is 4 driver with 2 DD and 2 BA.


----------



## scottySK (Jul 8, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> Looks like the TRN-V80 is now available on AliExpress. Wonder what it will be like? They have labeled it as flagship, reference-class and is 4 driver with 2 DD and 2 BA.


I just ordered one. Felt like taking a gamble on a blue aluminium iem. I heard only good things about their last v20 hybrid

Edit: I used the coupon from audiobudget to bring the price down to $25 USD


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> This one @ pic is not FF-modded. With FF You don`t need to mess with tips. Just for clarification.
> 
> But yeah, tips and their insertion depth, size, bore size, material etc, can affect sound in big way.
> Seems that ppl with large ears & ear-canals need shorter/on level tip lip extension over nozzle edge with L-size tips and ppl with small ears & ear-canals rather longer extension over nozzle edge with S-size tips... both cases with deep fit. AT least that`s what I conclude from observation from different reviews with different size ears. I`m generalizing and not claiming truth here.
> ...



Cutting the tips back so they don't extend past the nozzle does help, I did it with a set of the KZ stars and think I like the sound better with those than either of the other two (Auvio or Spirals) although the fit is a bit more finicky with the shortened tips as they have to be positioned pretty exactly to seal and movement can cause them to lose seal more easily.  

I can see the argument against calling it a V as to my ear the bass is bigger than the treble so you get the first half of a Capital V and the second half of a lowercase instead of a true V.    Trimming the tips back does seem to  make it a bit shallower, but I would still not call them neutral.

I will agree that soundstage is better than most at its price point and imaging is good.


----------



## CoiL

Btw, just to be sure... those who find ES4 bassy, muddy, harsh in any way - just try reversing cable pins, maybe they are internally wired out of phase? 
Cuz I tried them again wired out of phase just for curiosity to see if I can hear bad things some ppl are saying about ES4 and I seem to hear pretty much those things if out of phase.

Atm listening to Steven Wilson - get all You deserve 16/48 FLAC @ high gain with DX5X and it sounds just great and natural! Fatigue free IEM 100%, imho.


----------



## durwood (Jul 9, 2018)

I think the perceived muddiness comes from the fact the trough/dip centered around 7-8kHz is quite low, nearly 10db lower than their signature sound of other models. This allows the mids to be more prominent and what you pay attention to and easy to find fault with or not be masked. I am not negating the possibility of out of phase for some folks, just another impression from a user. My TRN V20 is the same way, but has a bit more sparkle up top to compensate. I just use a bit of boost at 8kHz if I want to liven up either my ES4 or TRN V20.


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Btw, just to be sure... those who find ES4 bassy, muddy, harsh in any way - just try reversing cable pins, maybe they are internally wired out of phase?
> Cuz I tried them again wired out of phase just for curiosity to see if I can hear bad things some ppl are saying about ES4 and I seem to hear pretty much those things if out of phase.
> 
> Atm listening to Steven Wilson - get all You deserve 16/48 FLAC @ high gain with DX5X and it sounds just great and natural! Fatigue free IEM 100%, imho.



I tried reversing them and can immediately tell they are worse.  Pretty sure it isn't a wiring problem and I have had my share so know KZ is entirely capable of what you suggest.


----------



## RolledOff

yes, ES4 reminds me of V20, but V20 has a bit more treble, just a bit.



durwood said:


> I think the perceived muddiness comes from the fact the trough/dip centered around 7-8kHz is quite low, nearly 10db lower than their signature sound of other models. This allows the mids to be more prominent and what you pay attention to and easy to find fault with or not be masked. I am not negating the possibility of out of phase for some folks, just another impression from a user. My TRN V20 is the same way, but has a bit more sparkle up top to compensate. I just use a bit of boost at 8kHz if I want to liven up either my ES4 or TRN V20.


----------



## chechu21

Any option for a ES4 but with more and detailed highs?


----------



## Francisk

ES4 looks to be a little brother of ZS10.


----------



## HungryPanda

Just as ZSA is little brother of KZ6


----------



## BadReligionPunk

These just arrived...


----------



## neo_styles

Well the Auvio wide bores came in over the weekend and I've now replaced tips on both my ZS10 and ES4. Now that the ES4 has completed its full 1More break-in run, I can restore it to being my daily driver (ZS6 is now on the bench). I forgot how relaxed its signature is and, plugged into my Fiio E12a/Xduoo X3 combo*, things are really smooth, even without EQ (I'd have to boot into Rockbox to do so and just really don't care for the UI). On the OnePlus 6 using Neutralizer, they're even more relaxed, yet I can still bring out more detail than I thought they were capable of. Are they replacements for some of my most expensive pairs? In the sense that I don't mind if they get broken/lost, sure. I just don't buy into the philosophy that they "shoot well above their price range."

Still waiting on the ZS6 and ED16 to show up. ED16's in limbo and Massdrop says expected shipping date on the ZS6 isn't going to be until the 20th.

*I have to use the E12a with the X3 since the headphone out developed a loose connection.


----------



## Cloudtastrophe

Can anyone who owns the two compare the ES4 and the ZSA for me? For reference, I have the ES4 and the ZST and ZS10. 

Im mostly wondering if i should pick up the ZSA too since i dont have the ZS5 or the ZS6 and i love their design.


----------



## MDH12AX7

chechu21 said:


> Any option for a ES4 but with more and detailed highs?


The ED16 comes to mind. Less upper bass/lower mids and more treble without sibilance. Bass is less powerful than ES4 but better defined in my book. The deep/sub bass is more prominent than mid bass. Bigger soundstage as well. Still like my ES4 it's just a different sound signature.


----------



## Strat Rider

+1


----------



## Audiostart

I just ordered ED16, question is: what upgrade cable with mic should i get? So far i used Vido (nice for how much they cost), Mi piston (not impressed), Rock Zircon (mixed feelings, sometimes great, sometimes just loud or bassy), Koss ruk 20w (not bad but can i say "meh"? ). Sansa Fuze v2 and Xiaomi mi A1 as players. Thanks!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HerrXRDS said:


> I just purchased another pair of ZS6 so I have a spare in case they go bad, that's how much I'm enjoying them. Without equalizer they are painful to listen too and I'm not really enjoying them, with EQ they truly shine, people not using EQ are missing out. You do need a 10 band EQ minimum to make them shine.


I agree with what other people have said. If you need to use an equalizer they aren't good headphones.


----------



## Slater

Audiostart said:


> I just ordered ED16, question is: what upgrade cable with mic should i get? So far i used Vido (nice for how much they cost), Mi piston (not impressed), Rock Zircon (mixed feelings, sometimes great, sometimes just loud or bassy), Koss ruk 20w (not bad but can i say "meh"? ). Sansa Fuze v2 and Xiaomi mi A1 as players. Thanks!



What’s wrong with the stock cable? 

Don’t feel like the upgrade cables are required, especially if you need a mic (as most of the upgrade cables don’t even come with a mic).


----------



## youngarthur

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I agree with what other people have said. If you need to use an equalizer they aren't good headphones.


I respectively disagree, as for me, maybe a slight cut/lift in a part of the Spectrum, does not turn them into a.......not good headphone, but, thats just my old ears.


----------



## CoiL

Technically-physically, if headphone needs EQ, then it is not "perfect"... BUT... WHO & WHAT is perfect? We all have different hearing, like it or not and EQ is to HELP people getting great personal SQ. 
Then there are differences in source gear, amping, tips, music, preferences etc. ...all that are not perfect.
And then there are two ways to approach to personal sound bliss:
1) Get good sounding headphone/IEM and use EQ.
2) Get great *personal* sound-matching IEM/headphone with good gear and not use EQ.

I chose 2nd option, long long way... and still had to mod/tune to get it right for MY EARS. And I still don`t use EQ.

Differences between 2:
* with 1st choice You need to use EQ (and probably differently set) with every source gear.
* with 2nd option You pretty much do not need to do anything, as base-core-signature of IEM/headphone doesn`t change so much with different gear and mostly still
fits personal preference/hearing.

Agree or not. Choices.

Choices ppl... choices. One is not better than other.


----------



## Audiostart

Slater said:


> What’s wrong with the stock cable?
> 
> Don’t feel like the upgrade cables are required, especially if you need a mic (as most of the upgrade cables don’t even come with a mic).


Nothing wrong, as i found out  Thanks.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Audiostart said:


> Nothing wrong, as i found out  Thanks.


I find the stock cable rubbery and grippy. Just put a bit of baby powder in my hand and pull the cable through it. It helps for a few days.


----------



## Wiljen

I decided to have a bit of sport today.  I pulled the balanced 2-pin silver cable from my ciem and put it on the ES4 so I could run them balanced from my Opus #1s.  This is probably not the rig that most Kz hardware will see, but I can say it scales better than I anticipated.   The slightly clinical nature of the Opus pairs well and bass while still a bit over neutral is well controlled and the glitch I was hearing at the cross-over is minimalized.  I can occasionally pick it out but I have to really work at it.  Seems some of the differences we are hearing is very likely to be that the ES4 is a bit source dependent.    It is a different animal run balanced from a good dap than run single ended off a phone/Q1 for sure.


----------



## Wiljen

To @CoiL 's point regarding EQ, I think the issue I have with use of EQ is that people dramatically over-estimate what it can do.   You will never successfully turn a warm, bass lite headphone into a bright bass heavy one with EQ.   EQ works best to slightly decrease a frequency that you find over-present in the mix.    Anything more than incremental change is likely to end with undesired consequences.

Finesse adjustments are where the EQ is designed to work.
Gross adjustments are best left to a change in hardware.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Wiljen said:


> To @CoiL 's point regarding EQ, I think the issue I have with use of EQ is that people dramatically over-estimate what it can do.   You will never successfully turn a warm, bass lite headphone into a bright bass heavy one with EQ.   EQ works best to slightly decrease a frequency that you find over-present in the mix.    Anything more than incremental change is likely to end with undesired consequences.
> 
> Finesse adjustments are where the EQ is designed to work.
> Gross adjustments are best left to a change in hardware.


EQ can do it, but then you need an amp, because we can shape it electri Q or onkyo HF player.

But EQ is and only used for correcting resonance inside our ears and leave iem sound as they do


----------



## Strat Rider (Jul 10, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Technically-physically, if headphone needs EQ, then it is not "perfect"... BUT... WHO & WHAT is perfect? We all have different hearing, like it or not and EQ is to HELP people getting great personal SQ.
> Choices ppl... choices. One is not better than other.



I agree, however I try to us e minimal EQ, but have multiple sources.
example: My EDR1 may sound good with my Cayin with no eq, but needs a bit of a bump with my ipod touch to get the same SQ. But the comfort or fact they may be my EDC, doesn't change.


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> EQ can do it, but then you need an amp, because we can shape it electri Q or onkyo HF player.
> 
> But EQ is and only used for correcting resonance inside our ears and leave iem sound as they do


+1 use eq to get rid of resonances and clean up the sound


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I decided to have a bit of sport today.  I pulled the balanced 2-pin silver cable from my ciem and put it on the ES4 so I could run them balanced from my Opus #1s.  This is probably not the rig that most Kz hardware will see, but I can say it scales better than I anticipated.   The slightly clinical nature of the Opus pairs well and bass while still a bit over neutral is well controlled and the glitch I was hearing at the cross-over is minimalized.  I can occasionally pick it out but I have to really work at it.  Seems some of the differences we are hearing is very likely to be that the ES4 is a bit source dependent.    It is a different animal run balanced from a good dap than run single ended off a phone/Q1 for sure.



Supposedly many KZs sound better when run balanced. I've seen people swear by ZS5 v1 and ZS6 when run balanced mode, for example.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> To @CoiL 's point regarding EQ, I think the issue I have with use of EQ is that people dramatically over-estimate what it can do.   You will never successfully turn a warm, bass lite headphone into a bright bass heavy one with EQ.   EQ works best to slightly decrease a frequency that you find over-present in the mix.    Anything more than incremental change is likely to end with undesired consequences.
> 
> Finesse adjustments are where the EQ is designed to work.
> Gross adjustments are best left to a change in hardware.



Agreed.

If you're using EQ to make enormous adjustments, you should really be looking at a differently-tuned headphone to begin with.

In my experience, EQ is ideal for minor adjustments.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Supposedly many KZs sound better when run balanced. I've seen people swear by ZS5 v1 and ZS6 when run balanced mode, for example.



I'd question whether it is really a matter of sounding better due to balanced out, or if it is a matter of most devices that support balanced are more expensive and use a bit better components to begin with, so benefit from those things.   Balanced certainly allows you to push more power into a headphone when compared with the single ended output of the same device, but I think the idea that it sounds better in and of itself is more myth than reality.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I'd question whether it is really a matter of sounding better due to balanced out, or if it is a matter of most devices that support balanced are more expensive and use a bit better components to begin with, so benefit from those things.   Balanced certainly allows you to push more power into a headphone when compared with the single ended output of the same device, but I think the idea that it sounds better in and of itself is more myth than reality.



No clue. I don't have any balanced equipment. What you said makes perfect sense though - I'm sure the balanced stuff use better components anyways. Or it could all just be bias.


----------



## Phantomize

Is the next 5 BA KZ IEM interesting? And what about the new BT module?


----------



## kimi7

I am enjoying my KZ ES4 since 4 days, listening again all my lossless collection I can find new details in almost all the recordings  I was thinking to get a silver plated cable and I have some questions, will I feel some audible improvement? the ones sold by the official KZ store and similar around 10USD, are they plated with real silver? it seems they provide a certificate about it. Thanks!!!!


----------



## alex5908

Сould anybody compare ZS10 with ZSA? I have ZS10. Is it worth buying ZSA for semi-basshead?


----------



## CoiL (Jul 10, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I'd question whether it is really a matter of sounding better due to balanced out, or if it is a matter of most *devices that support balanced are more expensive and use a bit better components* to begin with, so benefit from those things.   Balanced certainly *allows you to push more power into a headphone* when compared with the single ended output of the same device, but I think the idea that it sounds better in and of itself is more myth than reality.


Well... my DX5X is single ended... but I changed many hardware components for much higher specs and SQ... with 3.1V/80mA per channel @ high gain (lol, I think even many balanced can`t push out such juice). Maybe that`s why I`m hearing my ES4 little differently than many here? 


kimi7 said:


> I am enjoying my KZ ES4 since 4 days, listening again all my lossless collection I can find new details in almost all the recordings  I was thinking to get a silver plated cable and I have some questions, will I feel some audible improvement? the ones sold by the official KZ store and similar around 10USD, are they plated with real silver? it seems they provide a certificate about it. Thanks!!!!


Don`t buy those "silver" "upgrade" cables... they are not much better from stock. If You wish better - rather go for DIY cable 
Or if DIY isn`t possible, check hakuzen post about those cheap cable measurements.


----------



## B9Scrambler

alex5908 said:


> Сould anybody compare ZS10 with ZSA? I have ZS10. Is it worth buying ZSA for semi-basshead?



ZSA is not very bassy. You'd want to go with the ED15 or ZSR instead.


----------



## Leo-rume

I need some guidance is getting a new kz. I got the zs3 earlier this year and it was simply wonderful. I didn't even realize music could sound that good prior to that. It was..... immersive, for lack of a better word. The cable eventually got bad, lost sound on the left channel. I'm about ordering for a replacement cable and I saw it as an opportunity to maybe upgrade. I was wondering if anyone could guide me in getting a different kz, one with similar signature to the zs3 if possible. I generally prefer warm sound signatures without too much sacrifice on the highs, probably why I fell in love with the zs3. Although I'd gladly replace the cable and go on enjoying it, but I just wonder, could it really get any better than it currently is?Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

Leo-rume said:


> I need some guidance is getting a new kz. I got the zs3 earlier this year and it was simply wonderful. I didn't even realize music could sound that good prior to that. It was..... immersive, for lack of a better word. The cable eventually got bad, lost sound on the left channel. I'm about ordering for a replacement cable and I saw it as an opportunity to maybe upgrade. I was wondering if anyone could guide me in getting a different kz, one with similar signature to the zs3 if possible. I generally prefer warm sound signatures without too much sacrifice on the highs, probably why I fell in love with the zs3. Although I'd gladly replace the cable and go on enjoying it, but I just wonder, could it really get any better than it currently is?Any help would be appreciated. Thanks




I think if you love it that much you will want to be able to continue to use it even if you get something else in addition.


----------



## Slater

Leo-rume said:


> I need some guidance is getting a new kz. I got the zs3 earlier this year and it was simply wonderful. I didn't even realize music could sound that good prior to that. It was..... immersive, for lack of a better word. The cable eventually got bad, lost sound on the left channel. I'm about ordering for a replacement cable and I saw it as an opportunity to maybe upgrade. I was wondering if anyone could guide me in getting a different kz, one with similar signature to the zs3 if possible. I generally prefer warm sound signatures without too much sacrifice on the highs, probably why I fell in love with the zs3. Although I'd gladly replace the cable and go on enjoying it, but I just wonder, could it really get any better than it currently is?Any help would be appreciated. Thanks





mbwilson111 said:


> I think if you love it that much you will want to be able to continue to use it even if you get something else in addition.



Agree with @mbwilson111. Replacement stock cables are only like $2-$4, with the upgrade cables being a few more dollars more than that.

If you like the IEM, just get a new cable and you’ll be back in business (plus you’ll save the IEM from rotting away in a landfill). That’s the exact reason why IEMs with replaceable cables are replaceable.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> Agree with @mbwilson111. Replacement stock cables are only like $2-$4, with the upgrade cables being a few more dollars more than that.
> 
> If you like the IEM, just get a new cable and you’ll be back in business (plus you’ll save the IEM from rotting away in a landfill). That’s the exact reason why IEMs with replaceable cables are replaceable.


Eco Man suggestion...

LoL

Well remove the foam from ZS3 and get the silver cable.

Way better microphonics leading to somewhat better sound(no silver sound) and better build.


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Eco Man suggestion...
> 
> LoL
> 
> ...



...but many of the KZ silver cables are turning green.  Some people don't mind but some people do not want that.


----------



## Superluc

kimi7 said:


> I am enjoying my KZ ES4 since 4 days, listening again all my lossless collection I can find new details in almost all the recordings  I was thinking to get a silver plated cable and I have some questions, will I feel some audible improvement? the ones sold by the official KZ store and similar around 10USD, are they plated with real silver? it seems they provide a certificate about it. Thanks!!!!


Nope, don't do it. The stock one of the ES4 is not that different from the other KZ upgrade cable. 
Buy one of those is good only for avoid microphonics on KZs with the previous stock cable, like the one on the ED16.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> ...but many of the KZ silver cables are turning green.  Some people don't mind but some people do not want that.


Then get trn cable


----------



## HiFiChris

Seems like now there's a new KZ storage pouch available: https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009797426164.html





Makes me somewhat regret having ordered the KZ hard case storage boxes since the zipped ones are a good bit cheaper.


----------



## SiggyFraud

HiFiChris said:


> Seems like now there's a new KZ storage pouch available: https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009797426164.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, these have been around for a while now. Picked up three in different colours myself. They're pretty nice, but I'd be happier if they had this net-pouch-thing inside. Without it everything's just thrown in loosely.


----------



## Leo-rume

mbwilson111 said:


> I think if you love it that much you will want to be able to continue to use it even if you get something else in addition.





Slater said:


> Agree with @mbwilson111. Replacement stock cables are only like $2-$4, with the upgrade cables being a few more dollars more than that.
> 
> If you like the IEM, just get a new cable and you’ll be back in business (plus you’ll save the IEM from rotting away in a landfill). That’s the exact reason why IEMs with replaceable cables are replaceable.


Thanks for the response. I did fear that I'll be unable to enjoy another iem as much as I do the zs3. But another reason I considered an upgrade in the first place was because I needed another iem for the gym. I plan on getting the kz bluetooth cable to go with this. I recently saw a new version on aliexpress. One with way better battery life (8hrs they claim) and with aptx support. Also has panels on both channels fixing the imbalance issue. They basically fixed everything wrong with the previous version which was why I didn't get that earlier. Based on your suggestions, I'm going to get a replacement cable for the zs3 and go on using that for my music, but I still want to get another solely for the gym as I wouldn't want to be constantly switching between the BT cable and the wire on the zs3 for fear it might wear it out before its time. So I still need a bit of guidance in doing so. I did a mild research based my preferred signature and I'm stuck between getting the es4 and the zsa. What do you think, or are there others I should be looking at. I know its solely for working out but there's a possibility I end up liking them enough to use them casually also, hence why I'm trying to get it right


----------



## ViperScull (Jul 11, 2018)

Superluc said:


> Nope, don't do it. The stock one of the ES4 is not that different from the other KZ upgrade cable.
> Buy one of those is good only for avoid microphonics on KZs with the previous stock cable, like the one on the ED16.



I ordered the ED16 with mic. Expecting them in a week or so (I'll leave my impressions afterwards). Should I order the silver upgrade cable for them? I have in mind too a pair of CP240M SpinFit tips.


----------



## masleev

Hi guys, so I received the ed16 and t2 this Sunday, was using the Soundmagic e50 since the last 2 years. Haven't done much testing with the t2, but I've been extensively using the ed16 since the last 3 days.

The ed16 surprises me with the sound it can reproduce, considering the asking price of just 18usd. The build quality seems decent, these are pretty comfortable, and devoid of any wire noise also. Regarding the sound quality, I would say it is quite decent and reasonable, but contrary to what people had to say in this thread when I inquired about it in the past, it just doesn't hold a candle to my Soundmagic e50 in terms of instrument separation, vocals, and sub-bass quality; what I mean to say is that the e50s can produce better lower frequencies without compromising with details and instrument separation, which are both even better than in the ed16. Maybe burn-in would fix that in the future(I don't have much knowledge about that). And also consider that the e50s were around 45ish usd when I bought them, so obviously one would expect the better sound with the higher price. 

But seriously, better marketing(drivers, BA, etc.) from KZ's side doesn't mean manufacturers of the early days in the budget iems segment are past their prime.


----------



## audionab

finally after some weeks of usage of KZ ES4 and Rose North Forest here is my comparison-
I used turbo whirlwinds M on both the iems
The sound signatures are quite different because KZ uses BA for mids and highs where as RNF uses dynamic driver for full FR
Cable:
es4's cable is braided and non-microphonic and is rather tangle resistant 
rnf's cable is a good quality non-sticky rubberized but is quite microphonic it is quite tangle resistant
Bass:
es4 has fast and quite controlled bass with good quantity with wide bores but gets boomy with starlines though(wide bores are must for es4), sub-bass extension is good, there is some mid-bass bleed into low mids but is treatable with EQ
rnf's bass is slightly slower than of es4's but is present in larger quantity, mid-bass is boosted and has prominent mid-bass bleed into low mids but when this mid bass is treated then you will hear the depth of rnf's bass it digs so deep which is quite desirable 
Mids:
es4 has clean and clear mids with sparkle which is expected from a BA one can hear the subtle micro details easily, mids are quite energetic and natural sounding on es4
rnf's mid is dominated by 4k-5k peak which gives a slight artificial tone to mids the mids are quite forward(more than es4), the mids on rnf are relatively more thick than es4 and has a strong tone to it, when rnf is treated with eq it sounds so much better and cleaner than before(quite worth it), these do not sound as natural as es4's
Highs:
here es4 completely dominates rnf 
es4 has brighter and more detailed highs than rnf but rnf is no joke in highs it has lot of air here(more than es4) 
Soundstage:
here es4 completely destroys rnf in terms of width but they are quite close in depth
imaging is better on es4, instrument separation is also better on es4
Conclusion:
es4 and rnf are quite different from each other es4 has thinner and cleaner SQ than rnf but rnf has thick mids with awesome bass which I like but rnf lacks in soundstage which is a bummer
ES4:
controlled bass with clear sparkling mids and bright and detailed highs
RNF:
deep AF bass with strong thick mids with airy highs

Source: Oneplus 2 smartphone


----------



## loomisjohnson

Leo-rume said:


> I need some guidance is getting a new kz. I got the zs3 earlier this year and it was simply wonderful. I didn't even realize music could sound that good prior to that. It was..... immersive, for lack of a better word. The cable eventually got bad, lost sound on the left channel. I'm about ordering for a replacement cable and I saw it as an opportunity to maybe upgrade. I was wondering if anyone could guide me in getting a different kz, one with similar signature to the zs3 if possible. I generally prefer warm sound signatures without too much sacrifice on the highs, probably why I fell in love with the zs3. Although I'd gladly replace the cable and go on enjoying it, but I just wonder, could it really get any better than it currently is?Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


i liked the zs3 when it first came out, but progress marches on and unless you're really treble averse, i think the zsr renders it obsolete--the zsr has the same immersive quality with much better imaging and detail. i'm reliably informed the ed16 is similar to even better than the zsr, but haven't yet heard it myself.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 11, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> i liked the zs3 when it first came out, but progress marches on and unless you're really treble averse, i think the zsr renders it obsolete--the zsr has the same immersive quality with much better imaging and detail. i'm reliably informed the ed16 is similar to even better than the zsr, but haven't yet heard it myself.



Of the three (ZS3, ZSR, ED16),  I personally had fit issues with the ZS3.  I know I am in the minority but it happens.  Everyone is different.   The ED16 is the smallest of the three and the most confortable for me but someone in here did report having fit problems with it. Then there are the tips.  You would think that what works for you on one of these would work on the others but that is not always the case.



Leo-rume said:


> What do you think, or are there others I should be looking at.



Do you need the cable to go over your ear?  If not there is the always excellent ED9.  Also, there are choices other than KZ.  For example, I love my Sunorm SE950 and my UiiSii CM5.  Both of those have the cable over the ear and both are in a similar price range as the KZs being discussed.


----------



## alex5908 (Jul 11, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> ZSA is not very bassy. You'd want to go with the ED15 or ZSR instead.


Thank you very much for your advice. I was going to buy ZSA. Now I won't. I already have ZSR which I don't consider bassy at all. Perhaps I am more than semi-basshead.
Which is bassier- ED15 or ZSR?


----------



## alex5908

Are there any promo codes for ED15?


----------



## B9Scrambler

alex5908 said:


> Thank you very much for your advice. I was going to buy ZSA. Now I won't. I already have ZSR which I don't consider bassy at all. Perhaps I am more than semi-basshead.
> Which is bassier- ED15 or ZSR?



They're pretty similar. ZSR has more mid-bass. Bass quality on the ED15 is much better; tighter, punchier, better mid-/sub-bass balance. All imo of course. That said, if you're not finding the ZSR bassy you might want to check out another brand or look into picking up an older model like the ED8 or DT5, should you even be able to find one.


----------



## alex5908

B9Scrambler said:


> That said, if you're not finding the ZSR bassy you might want to check out another brand or look into picking up an older model like the ED8 or DT5, should you even be able to find one.


How about ED 15 and ED16? Which is bassier?


----------



## B9Scrambler

alex5908 said:


> How about ED 15 and ED16? Which is bassier?



Don't have the ED16 so I can't say, sorry.


----------



## Leo-rume

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you need the cable to go over your ear? If not there is the always excellent ED9. Also, there are choices other than KZ. For example, I love my Sunorm SE950 and my UiiSii CM5.


Thanks. Yes. I do need the cable to go over the ear and be detachable. I plan on using a Bluetooth cable along with it, so the ED9s wouldn't do it for me. And I think I'll be sticking with just the kz products for now. I'm really new to the whole hi-fi iems and already very confused as it is. Maybe when I feel my way more into it all, I can try out other products.


loomisjohnson said:


> i liked the zs3 when it first came out, but progress marches on and unless you're really treble averse, i think the zsr renders it obsolete--the zsr has the same immersive quality with much better imaging and detail. i'm reliably informed the ed16 is similar to even better than the zsr, but haven't yet heard it myself.


I did read many rave reviews about the ZSR. I was really interested in these. Apparently the sound out of them is incredibly detailed and well represented with good low end. I was only put off by some complaints of harshness in the high regions. I can say I'm fairly treble sensitive and would want a KZ I can listen to for 3+ hours without getting fatigued. Although I heard foam tips help a lot in balancing out some of the harshness. I'll look more into the ED16 and make a decision. Do you have any experience with the ES4? I seem to like what I've heard so far concerning these.


----------



## Zlivan

I've found the ZSRs with foams to be a real joy to listen to. Highs are more present than with ES4, but not harsh at all. Also, upper mids are much tamer, which adds to overall more pleasant tuning.

IMO, ZSR are better by a good margin.


----------



## neo_styles

ED16 arrived yesterday and I decided to take it out for work today (pre-burn-in) to form some initial impressions.

1)  These things are really power-dependent; similar to the ZS10, but not so much the ES4. Using the TRN BT cable, I could tell the ED16 were struggling pretty hard. Upper midrange was sibilant (harsh on certain tracks) and the low-end was pretty loose and slow in terms of attack.

2) Compared to the ES4, these things have a lot more detail/sparkle when it comes to organic instruments (guitars, pianos, drums, etc). This is one area in which I found the ES4 to be lacking; while it sounded pleasant, the detail retrieval between the two doesn't really compare.

3) Both the bass and lower midrange on these is significantly cleaned up in comparison to the ES4/ZS10. They'll still benefit tremendously from EQ, but that's mainly for the harshness up top rather than midbass bleed down below. They may not dig as low, but what they do play is fairly fast and accurate (but see #1...poor power will definitely affect this).

4) Compared to the ES4 and ZS10, they're tiny. Depth of insertion is also much shorter than the ES4, but similar to the ZS10 and has become a mixed blessing for me. Using the stock cable with a memory wire, I'm much more easily able to maintain a stable fit. Once I swap over to the BT3, things get loose and something as simple as opening my mouth can cause a big break in the seal.

5) While I was hoping the fact they sit more flush with my ear would help with in-bed listening, these things shift around just enough to block out sound unless I put my head juuuuust right on the pillow first. Still wouldn't consider these the ideal in-bed pair unless you're a back sleeper.

6) How do you make up for all of that? By giving a massive upgrade in terms of stage width and depth. On the right tracks, these things feel borderline cavernous. I haven't received my ZS6 to compare (but have received the shipping notification), but it's certainly an improvement over what the ZS10 and ES4 had to offer. If the ES4 was non-fatiguing due to its quick rolloff from the upper midrange on up, the ED16 feels non-fatiguing since sounds are much more spaced out. I wouldn't say it's quite yet on the level of feeling like you're listening to a speaker setup, which is something I think I've only really heard so far with the iSine 10, but that's to be expected with them being planar magnetics.

Honestly, for the price, I think these are absolutely ideal for people who listen to a lot of music featuring organic instruments. They were pretty sublime when listening to a few renditions of Adagio for Strings (including the original NBC recording), even holding up well to the more full sound of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite. If you're after something for electronic and hip-hop, these probably aren't the best choice. They still do a decent job, but I think the ES4 would be better suited for that use case.


----------



## HiFiChris

SiggyFraud said:


> Actually, these have been around for a while now. Picked up three in different colours myself. They're pretty nice, but I'd be happier if they had this net-pouch-thing inside. Without it everything's just thrown in loosely.





HiFiChris said:


> Seems like now there's a new KZ storage pouch available: https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009797426164.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, I didn't know that. I've seen it for the first time today (at least I think so). I've ordered two anyway - a blue one and a red one - since they look good on the photos. Thinking about it again, I don't really need any of those in the first place as I have two spare ones laying around (some Chinese ones of remotely similar design but apparently of lesser quality and durability); those little things really add up.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

RvTrav said:


> I use Betty Crocker containers that I purchase for 2 for $1.25 at Dollar Tree in Canada as another option for storage at home.


Thanks! I bought a couple of those BC cases! They are well made and don't off gas chemicals like things ordered from China. Perfect!

How did you get the glue off the top of the lids where the product sticker was? I used Goo Gone Wipes and it worked well.


----------



## Superluc (Jul 11, 2018)

ViperScull said:


> I ordered the ED16 with mic. Expecting them in a week or so (I'll leave my impressions afterwards). Should I order the silver upgrade cable for them? I have in mind too a pair of CP240M SpinFit tips.


Well, try them and see if you like them and if you can live with the microphonics that cable produce when touched.
If then you consider to change the cable, be sure to buy  one with the mic, if you need one.

just for example 

on that page is the A-with mic.

There is a lot of upgrade cables, but not that much with the mic.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

I'm a week into all of this and bought a pair of KZ ZST (colorful) and a pair of Symphonized NRG 3.0s to go with my archaic Gen. 4 iPod.

Both were about $23 shipped.

The KZ didn't need a lot of time to sound the way I'd hope they'd sound, whereas the 3.0s were quite veiled out of the box.  I'm still fiddling around, but those are the first two pair that I went with, for better, or for worse.

Chris


----------



## neo_styles

Superluc said:


> Well, try them and see if you like them and if you can live with the microphonics that cable produce when touched.
> If then you consider to change the cable, be sure to buy  one with the mic, if you need one.
> 
> just for example
> ...


I feel a little differently about this. The stock cable that came with my ED16 is frustrating as all get-out (will that coil _ever _go away?), but microphonics aren't really an issue if you keep the memory wire in there. It seems to help me with fit more than it hurts in the form of microphonics or anything else; something I haven't been able to say about the ES4/ZS10.

Still worth it to have another cable, if for nothing more than to have as a backup knowing how long these things take in shipment.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> Of the three (ZS3, ZSR, ED16),  I personally had fit issues with the ZS3.  I know I am in the minority but it happens.  Everyone is different.   The ED16 is the smallest of the three and the most confortable for me but someone in here did report having fit problems with it.


The ED16 is too small for my ears as well. I am going to put a Medium sized foam inside the Large Starlines and see what happens... things should be corrected.


----------



## alex5908 (Jul 11, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I agree with what other people have said. If you need to use an equalizer they aren't good headphones.


And I strongly disagree. They don't need an equalizer. They need a good burn-in for at least 300 hours. The harshness and sibilants will vanish. Much depends on the gear source too. I have a lot of different IEMS and full size headphones. Number 1 is Meze 99 Classics. Number 2 is Sendiy M121 (IEMs which cost $200) and number three is ZS6. Actually ZS6 is my preference for out-of-doors conditions. IMO they are number one for ratio of SQ/price too. Sorry if I sounded like a mentor. I did not mean that.


----------



## ViperScull

Superluc said:


> Well, try them and see if you like them and if you can live with the microphonics that cable produce when touched.
> If then you consider to change the cable, be sure to buy  one with the mic, if you need one.
> 
> just for example
> ...


Actually I can live without the mic. I ordered the one that comes with the ED16 with mic because I use it sometimes, but if an upgrade cable is better without mic I'll get it without.
But yes, I'll give it a couple of weeks to see how they evolve.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Hi, I did receive my new ED16, blue without mic.
It does not show on the earbuds wich one is left or right.
Hopefully the drawing on the box shows the wright plugin.
First hours of listening: with the stock medium starline tips:
trebles and high medium are well detailed, more than the ES4 in a colder way, never sibillant too.
Bass and sub  can dig deep, but their level is very low, lower than the ES4 and much lower than the ZSR.
When I listen the ZSR just after the ED16, the trebles seem sibilant all the time and the bass very big.

The tips: 
Whirl turbo with large opening & flush with the grill, that sound so good with the ES4 make the bass still lower on the ED16
I've got the best with white triple flange with large opening (between the starline & the whirl) and long tube
it shows very controled but very deep & beautifull bass and clear voices & trebles.
It is realy better than the stock starline.
I believe that the small size of the ED16 reduces the amount of perceived bass.

Considering the price paied of 16$ shipment inclued, it is for sure largely the best earphone on the market.


----------



## CoiL

jeromeaparis said:


> ...it is for sure largely the best earphone on the market.


I`m questioning myself WHY should I buy this KZ if I have found my bliss with modded IT01? Leaving-KZ-family final purchase? Just for... no reason? 
Itchy & scratchy ;D


----------



## mbwilson111

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I did receive my new ED16, blue without mic.
> It does not show on the earbuds wich one is left or right.



The lettering in the right earpiece of the ED16 says ZS7 .. the left one has some other lines of text


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> I`m questioning myself WHY should I buy this KZ if I have found my bliss with modded IT01? Leaving-KZ-family final purchase? Just for... no reason?
> Itchy & scratchy ;D



just because you can...

you know you want to


----------



## Zlivan

Well, my ED16 arrived and while they are very close to ZSR, I think I prefer the latter just a bit more.
I guess it has something to do with my anatomy and the location of vent holes on each model, but on the ZSR I actually hear slightly less bass and that, along with less upper mids sounds a bit closer to what I like to hear.

But I can totally see why people like ED16 more, they are somewhat more energetic and fun tuned, they are small and practically sink into earlobes. I fail to see why these got canned.


----------



## skajohyros

CoiL said:


> I`m questioning myself WHY should I buy this KZ if I have found my bliss with modded IT01? Leaving-KZ-family final purchase? Just for... no reason?
> Itchy & scratchy ;D


I'm curious to see if it will be better than the zs5v1. Let's hope.


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> I`m questioning myself WHY should I buy this KZ if I have found my bliss with modded IT01? Leaving-KZ-family final purchase? Just for... no reason?
> Itchy & scratchy ;D



I'm in the same boat.  I have a custom 5 driver that is as close to nirvana as I will likely come, and yet I find myself tempted to purchase another $20 wonder that I know wont be close.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 12, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I'm in the same boat.  I have a custom 5 driver that is as close to nirvana as I will likely come, and yet I find myself tempted to purchase another $20 wonder that I know wont be close.



I have a nice 6BA per side iem that is much more expensive and yet I love the ED16 enough that I am considering buying a backup pair.   For one thing it it smaller.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

alex5908 said:


> And I strongly disagree. They don't need an equalizer. They need a good burn-in for at least 300 hours. The harshness and sibilants will vanish. Much depends on the gear source too. I have a lot of different IEMS and full size headphones. Number 1 is Meze 99 Classics. Number 2 is Sendiy M121 (IEMs which cost $200) and number three is ZS6. Actually ZS6 is my preference for out-of-doors conditions. IMO they are number one for ratio of SQ/price too. Sorry if I sounded like a mentor. I did not mean that.


Bro, go read linkwitz er4 article....

You do need equalisation as our ear acts a reverse horn focusing treble energy and bass synergy(hit).

Burn in is still old school and applicable to old school driver like lowther. It may still effect some driver but is not scientifically proven.

And if you are on KZ thread, people are buying KZ iem and not something like Ocharaku, which pretune everything with tornado equaliser and dual shift drive.

Your eardrum impedance and ear canal shape will boost certain frequency which you may not see on FR, that's why you equalise to get perfect sound or buy expensive iem or headphone


----------



## Zlivan

I wouldn't really call it a wonder (ED16), just a good value.

They are easy to listen to, dont't require equalizing or extensive tip rolling to make them sound enjoyable. I've put them through my usual test songs prone to harshness and sibilance and they played them rather well.


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> I have a nice 6BA per side iem that is much more expensive and yet I love the ED16 enough that I am considering buying a backup pair.   For one thing it it smaller.



You know this is a form of illness right?  This cant be healthy behavior for any of us.


----------



## neo_styles

Wiljen said:


> You know this is a form of illness right?  This cant be healthy behavior for any of us.


I believe the appropriate term is GAD (Gear Acqusition Disorder).


----------



## Wiljen

neo_styles said:


> I believe the appropriate term is GAD (Gear Acqusition Disorder).



ah yes, or in technical (latin) terms -  mustus earphonium obtanis


----------



## ChrisGarrett

neo_styles said:


> I believe the appropriate term is GAD (Gear Acqusition Disorder).



Or more provincially known--upgrade-itis.

Chris


----------



## neo_styles

What about Chinese Headphone Acquisition Disorder (CHAD)?


----------



## loomisjohnson

just got my ed16 and, in a word (or two) they are tip sensitive as a mofo. ootb, with the stock starline tips, they were surprisingly balanced/laid back, with uncharacteristically (for kz) forward, pleasant mids, but otherwise bass-shy and mostly underwhelming. switching to foams, which i generally do not prefer, the difference was night-and-day--the bass deepened profoundly, while treble seemed to brighten and show more microdetail, probably because it was presented against the deeper background. as shod thusly, they really are (as otto and others have suggested) sort of a more refined, 9/10 scale variant of the zsr, with a smaller stage and a bit less adrenaline and extension, but more sculpted bass and better coherence. they're not as small as i expected (tho definitely sleeker and more ergonomic than the zsr or zs5/6), but isolation is better than advertised. these cost me $17, which coincidentally was the same price as the beers at the horrible jam-band concert i was forced to attend last week and which will traumatize me forever.


----------



## neo_styles

Did a little more tweaking with the ED16 by using my RE-400 double-flanges and re-running Neutralizer. I've managed to get the presence region tuned a little less aggressively and it's surprising how much like the ES4 these things sound as an end-result. Stage might shrink a little bit, but that's made up for by not having to reach for the volume knob on more aggressive tracks. I've left my EQ setting below in case anybody wants to emulate. Keep in mind that I'm almost all subtractive EQ except for the 32 Hz setting since it's almost non-existent to my ears without a small boost.



Spoiler


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> I have a nice 6BA per side iem that is much more expensive and yet I love the ED16 enough that I am considering buying a backup pair.   For one thing it it smaller.


@mbwilson111  I just received my backup ED16's. Now I have both colors. Good stuff! It was actually your initial comments that made me try them. Thank you!


----------



## 1clearhead

neo_styles said:


> I believe the appropriate term is GAD (Gear Acqusition Disorder).


Lol!...Count me in!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 12, 2018)

MDH12AX7 said:


> @mbwilson111  I just received my backup ED16's. Now I have both colors. Good stuff! It was actually your initial comments that made me try them. Thank you!



That is what I want... both colors.

Glad you like them.  I often refrain from saying anything because I don't want someone to get something and maybe be disappointed.  I do think the current hype has caused some to be a little disappointed.  No one is saying they are the best iems in the whole world for every person.


----------



## MDH12AX7

I am a guitar player/collector. We call it GAS. Gear acquisition syndrome.... Lol It's a pandemic!


----------



## MDH12AX7

mbwilson111 said:


> That is what I want... both colors.
> 
> Glad you like them.  I often refrain from saying anything because I don't want someone to get something and maybe dissapointed.  I do think the current hype has caused some to be a little dissapointed.  No one is saying they are the best iems in the whole world for every person.


No, but at $17 bucks, they are a no-brainer...


----------



## MDH12AX7

I give all of my overflow KZ's to my my students as rewards and prizes. Or I stock up at the 11-11 sales. So much fun to see the look on their faces when the old guy shows up with an un-heard-of IEM that blows away their Skull Candies or Beats. They got ES3's last time and they were a big hit!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ZS3 is a special sounding iem.


MDH12AX7 said:


> I am a guitar player/collector. We call it GAS. Gear acquisition syndrome.... Lol It's a pandemic!


Was just about to post that. Been having GAS ever since I joined Harmonycentral about 17 years ago. 
GAD is much more wallet friendly and much more palatable to endure for my wife then GAS. GAS was actually detrimental to my marriage at one point with all the 4x12 cabs and 100 watt heads, 2x12 combos and guitars everywhere.


----------



## alex5908 (Jul 12, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> ah yes, or in technical (latin) terms -  mustus earphonium obtanis


Guys, it's not fun. We are really sick. Or at least some of us.
Look into my signature - I have cheap and expensive IEMs and headphones. And it's only a half of the gear which I own. Some of them are really top notch and satisfy me 100% but I am still looking for something different. Wasting the money at that. I should stop somehow.
For now I am researching for ED 15. I am sure there's no way they will be even close to my Sony and Sindey IEMs but still  hoping to find something different and good.
It's really not fun.


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> Guys, it's not fun. We are really sick. Or at least some of us.
> Look into my signature - I have cheap and expensive IEMs and headphones. And it's only a half of the gear which I own. Some of them are really top notch and satisfy me 100% but I am still looking for something different. Wasting the money at that. We should stop somehow.
> For now I am researching for ED 15. I am sure there's no way they will be even close to my Sony and Sindey IEMs but still  hoping to find something different and good.
> It's really not fun.



Better than a gambling or opiate addiction, right?


----------



## alex5908

Slater said:


> Better than a gambling or opiate addiction, right?


Yes, it's better health-wise but not so much as far as the money is concerned.


----------



## audionab

any news on any upcoming KZ iems?


----------



## Slater (Jul 12, 2018)

alex5908 said:


> Yes, it's better health-wise but not so much as far as the money is concerned.



I guess it depends on each individual person’s finances.

If someone is buying extraneous items like headphones, instead of putting food in their family’s mouth, or if they are behind in their bills but are buying audio gear, then yeah I would say that person has a serious problem.

But if someone can afford $200 set aside for ‘fun purchases’, and buys (8) pairs of $25 IEMs (to get different signatures for example) instead of (1) $200 pair, then it’s a wash IMO.


----------



## Gordhifi

I've been very pleased with the ZSR sound, and value. But I've gotta say the Zs10 are unbearable in the treble region to me. I'm sending them back and not sure which KZ is my next purchase. On another note. Fiio had a flash sale of there budget iem F1 not a great phone but it comes with a nice case and a good selection of tips. 3.99. I bought two just for the accessories.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Better than a gambling or opiate addiction, right?



I dunno, with gambling the mob kills you when you can't pay (quick if painful),  with opiates an overdose can end the suffering in a heartbeat, with earphones,  SWMBO browbeats you daily for eternity with no chance of either remission or release.

For those uninitiated SWMBO is my other half.  (She Who Must Be Obeyed).


----------



## alex5908

Wiljen said:


> SWMBO browbeats you daily for eternity with no chance of either remission or release.


I know all the words but taken altogether... I can't make it out. But just in case I'll put ""Like" for it.


----------



## Wiljen

alex5908 said:


> I know all the words but taken altogether... I can't make it out. But just in case I'll put ""Like" for it.



(Loosely translated - I catch crap forever with no way out)


----------



## GamerGuppy (Jul 13, 2018)

Hey all, I recently received the ED16 (rebranded ZS7). I am very happy with them. I did a lot of A-B testing the past few days with other KZ models such as the ZST, ZSR and ZS6. My reason for buying the ED16, is that I was still looking for a relatively cheap IEM that I could use for running and other sports without being too afraid of losing or breaking them. I have also A-B listened to them with the Ibasso IT01, my favorite IEM to date. I am by no means an audiophile and normally leave detailed sound analysis to other people, but I still wanted to share my experience:

In short my experience is as follows: The ED16 is pleasantly tuned with more focus on the mids and it has a warmer sound signature than most KZ's. With that said, the sound of the mids is quite similar to the ZSR. However, much like the ZS6, the ED16 has a more controlled bass and is less punchy than the ZSR. I find the ZSR on some genres of music to be too punchy, which can be fatiguing and cause mid-bass bleeding. E.g. impacts on drums are often very punchy but lack body and texture (check for example the first 30 seconds of “High Water Everywhere” by Joe Bonamassa, live in the Royal Albert Hall). The ED16 fortunately does not share this trait. Imaging is fine, but slightly better on the ZSR.

The ED16 is more musical than the technically superior ZS6. The ZS6 has more detail in the mids and highs, maybe even more so than the IT01. However, after having become addicted to the IT01 I have come to realize that the details of the ZS6 are a bit artificial and probably caused by their sibilant nature which emphasizes tiny sparks present in some music. The ED16 rarely becomes sibilant, and the highs are pretty tame for a KZ IEM. It has a decent soundstage, but not as wide as the ZS6 or as authentic as the IT01.

Now something weird. Even though the ED16 has a warmer sound signature and in general does not sound sibilant, still, when some specific high note shows up in music (rarely present) it tends to be even more piercing than the ZST or ZS6 (check for example timestamps 3:08, 3:33, 5:22 of “A Case of You” by Diana Krall, Live in Paris). Could be a weird peak in the FR. But don’t let this scare you, because the ED16s might be my favorite KZ to date, especially at this price point. Comfort wise the ED16 is quite similar to the ZST, but with just a tiny-bit smaller form factor. Tempted to try the ES4 too, but am afraid it would sound very similar.


----------



## Danfish98

I received my pair of ZSA today. Haven't listened enough to give impressions yet beyond saying they're delightfully comfortable. That also means it's cake to get a good seal with them. I'll give sound impressions in a few days after giving them a good break in.


----------



## MDH12AX7

GamerGuppy said:


> Hey all, I recently received the ED16 (rebranded ZS7). I am very happy with them. I did a lot of A-B testing the past few days with other KZ models such as the ZST, ZSR and ZS6. My reason for buying the ED16, is that I was still looking for a relatively cheap IEM that I could use for running and other sports without being too afraid of losing or breaking them. I have also A-B listened to them with the Ibasso IT01, my favorite IEM to date. I am by no means an audiophile and normally leave detailed sound analysis to other people, but I still wanted to share my experience:
> 
> In short my experience is as follows: The ED16 is pleasantly tuned with more focus on the mids and it has a warmer sound signature than most KZ's. With that said, the sound of the mids is quite similar to the ZSR. However, much like the ZS6, the ED16 has a more controlled bass and is less punchy than the ZSR. I find the ZSR on some genres of music to be too punchy, which can be fatiguing and cause mid-bass bleeding. E.g. impacts on drums are often very punchy but lack body and texture (check for example the first 30 seconds of “High Water Everywhere” by Joe Bonamassa, live in the Royal Albert Hall). The ED16 fortunately does not share this trait. Imaging is fine, but slightly better on the ZSR.
> 
> ...


In my experience, the ES4 is different enough from the ED16 to steal some playing time away from the ED16. The ES4 is just much thicker in the mids and bass. It still has detail but I find it very relaxing and soothing. Depends on whether I want warm and fat or balanced and transparent. Both have their place. If I listen to the ED16, I get more caught up in the details. Hard to read or divide my attention. If music is just for mood or relaxing, the ES4 works. ES4 and a good book is nice. ED16 grabs my attention completely. Just my 2 cents worth...


----------



## MDH12AX7

BadReligionPunk said:


> ZS3 is a special sounding iem.
> 
> Was just about to post that. Been having GAS ever since I joined Harmonycentral about 17 years ago.
> GAD is much more wallet friendly and much more palatable to endure for my wife then GAS. GAS was actually detrimental to my marriage at one point with all the 4x12 cabs and 100 watt heads, 2x12 combos and guitars everywhere.


Yeah, my poor wife puts up with me too...


----------



## MDH12AX7

And that's in addition to my studio upstairs.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Can anyone comment on the wireless KZ Bluetooth Cable? any impression, feedback would be great. 

Thanks.


----------



## SuperLuigi

MidNighTempest said:


> Can anyone comment on the wireless KZ Bluetooth Cable? any impression, feedback would be great.
> 
> Thanks.



I don't personally own one, but just finished doing some research on bluetooth stuff a few weeks ago.

Seems like the KZ bluetooth cable works okay.  Nothing special, but okay.  Some ppl had issues with it syncing audio to when they were watching videos on their phone.  Some complains about battery life(like 3-4 hours on a charge.)  It has a pretty slow recharge time.  So some definitely potential issues, but for the price, it seems okay.  Sound quality was good for the most part, but a few said they felt their headphones were under powered and "struggling."

I saw quite a few recommendations for the TRN bluetooth cable instead which costs 3x more.  I personally went with the xiaomi bluetooth receiver based on some recommendations here.


----------



## ViperScull (Jul 13, 2018)

SuperLuigi said:


> I don't personally own one, but just finished doing some research on bluetooth stuff a few weeks ago.
> 
> Seems like the KZ bluetooth cable works okay.  Nothing special, but okay.  Some ppl had issues with it syncing audio to when they were watching videos on their phone.  Some complains about battery life(like 3-4 hours on a charge.)  It has a pretty slow recharge time.  So some definitely potential issues, but for the price, it seems okay.  Sound quality was good for the most part, but a few said they felt their headphones were under powered and "struggling."
> 
> I saw quite a few recommendations for the TRN bluetooth cable instead which costs 3x more.  I personally went with the xiaomi bluetooth receiver based on some recommendations here.


You are talking about de 6-7 USD version of the Bluetooth cable right? Not the new aptx 17USD model that came out a week ago or so.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-es4.23181/reviews

My review on ES4. Didn't do any comparison but gave somewhat a detailed review.

I tried...

Just bare with it and give me some feedbacks.
Thanks to

@audionab for selling his pair with tenmak whirwind to me because my cousin took my pair.

@CoiL for suggesting wide bore.


And I think ES4 compared to ES4 pre register edition is way better


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> And I think *ES4 compared to ES4 pre register edition is way better*


Wait, what? ES4 pre-order sounds different from current ES4 ?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> Wait, what? ES4 pre-order sounds different from current ES4 ?


Do you remember that I was the first one to buy ES4, when it was on pre order.

I think it changed.

Earlier sounded same as ES3 with moar bass.

Now it seemed to be more tamed.


And who was the guy who wore ZSA weird way, thanks....ES4 is comfortable now.

My skin inside ear canal has turned dry for some reason and when I remove these IEM, it scratches.

Plus it pains in long term use.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Guys

I need a wide yet long bore eartip as tenmak eartip M pains my ear a lot.

I tried the star lines and they were comfy.

Suggest me one


----------



## loomisjohnson

GamerGuppy said:


> Hey all, I recently received the ED16 (rebranded ZS7). I am very happy with them. I did a lot of A-B testing the past few days with other KZ models such as the ZST, ZSR and ZS6. My reason for buying the ED16, is that I was still looking for a relatively cheap IEM that I could use for running and other sports without being too afraid of losing or breaking them. I have also A-B listened to them with the Ibasso IT01, my favorite IEM to date. I am by no means an audiophile and normally leave detailed sound analysis to other people, but I still wanted to share my experience:
> 
> In short my experience is as follows: The ED16 is pleasantly tuned with more focus on the mids and it has a warmer sound signature than most KZ's. With that said, the sound of the mids is quite similar to the ZSR. However, much like the ZS6, the ED16 has a more controlled bass and is less punchy than the ZSR. I find the ZSR on some genres of music to be too punchy, which can be fatiguing and cause mid-bass bleeding. E.g. impacts on drums are often very punchy but lack body and texture (check for example the first 30 seconds of “High Water Everywhere” by Joe Bonamassa, live in the Royal Albert Hall). The ED16 fortunately does not share this trait. Imaging is fine, but slightly better on the ZSR.
> 
> ...


well stated--i agree with all of this


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Guys
> I need a wide yet long bore eartip as tenmak eartip M pains my ear a lot.


Auvio
Huawei honor (AM12 original) transparent white/blue tips (though they are M/S bore).

But these are my personal favorite with long stem and wide bore (though, they are rather S size and have only one size):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...429.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.41064c4dNOAU2W

Sennheiser CX300 replacement tips have also quite long stem and medium size bore:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-p...261b-4bca-b6af-aaef3127aa18&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## Makahl

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Guys
> 
> I need a wide yet long bore eartip as tenmak eartip M pains my ear a lot.
> 
> ...



Is the Tennmak turbo "S" too small for you?

I'd also recommend JVC spiral dot if you can find it.


----------



## Slater

MidNighTempest said:


> Can anyone comment on the wireless KZ Bluetooth Cable? any impression, feedback would be great.
> 
> Thanks.



Which one? There 4 different versions (not even counting the 2 different types of 2-pin ends).


----------



## robervaul

Phantomize said:


> Is the next 5 BA KZ IEM interesting? And what about the new BT module?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Makahl said:


> Is the Tennmak turbo "S" too small for you?
> 
> I'd also recommend JVC spiral dot if you can find it.


I have medium because audionab got 9 set medium. 

I will see on that @CoiL 

But getting a pair of earphones for only eartips....you are rich buoy


----------



## audionab

i never thought these tennmak wide bores would have caused scratchy ear 
i have the same problem too but only after like 2-3 hours of continuous use


----------



## groucho69

Wiljen said:


> I dunno, with gambling the mob kills you when you can't pay (quick if painful),  with opiates an overdose can end the suffering in a heartbeat, with earphones,  SWMBO browbeats you daily for eternity with no chance of either remission or release.
> 
> For those uninitiated SWMBO is my other half.  (She Who Must Be Obeyed).


----------



## Wiljen

groucho69 said:


>



Another Rumpole fan I see.


----------



## groucho69

Wiljen said:


> Another Rumpole fan I see.



Role of a lifetime.


----------



## KipNix (Jul 13, 2018)

My wife understands the syndrome. 

Mention to her, "It's like when  you buy shoes..."
Touche, and peace is restored.


----------



## mbwilson111

KipNix said:


> My wife understands the syndrome.
> 
> Mention to her, "It's like when  you buy shoes..."
> Touche, and peace is restored.



...what if the wife is buying iems and not shoes....


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> ...what if the wife is buying iems and not shoes....


 Yes then it becomes pricey


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Yes then it becomes pricey




maybe the husband should quit


----------



## maxxevv

mbwilson111 said:


> ...what if the wife is buying iems and not shoes....



At least they take up a whole lot less room within the house ....


----------



## Wiljen (Jul 13, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> ...what if the wife is buying iems and not shoes....



If only there were more girl's like you out there 

In all honesty, I would welcome having SWMBO be more interested in music/gear as it would make conversations much less one sided and she would understand what it is I like about some of the expensive stuff even if her tastes weren't exactly the same.


----------



## SuperLuigi

So i just got the KZ Ed16 and i'm having issues with quality controli think.  First off, they sound amazing for the price.  Lets just get that out of the way.  For the price point, no brainer.

Now the QC issue.  I have the stock wire, and when the wire bends even a little at the headphone jack/connector area, the left ear cuts in and out a bit.  I reconnected the wire, same issue.  Is this something i have to address with my seller from aliexpress? I've never had to do this before.


----------



## SuperLuigi

ViperScull said:


> You are talking about de 6-7 USD version of the Bluetooth cable right? Not the new aptx 17USD model that came out a week ago or so.



I was referring to the 7 USD one.  Wasn't much for commentary on the new aptx one.


----------



## neo_styles

SuperLuigi said:


> I have the stock wire, and when the wire bends even a little at the headphone jack/connector area, the left ear cuts in and out a bit.  I reconnected the wire, same issue.  Is this something i have to address with my seller from aliexpress? I've never had to do this before.


If you're getting any sort of signal cutout issues, then absolutely; contact the seller. I think it's safe to assume that KZ is focusing a lot on quantity over quality, especially since they're catering to a worldwide market and constant introduction of new products (aka it's cheaper to replace than up QC quality).

But I'm glad you mentioned the cord as I just got one in that I was going to use for the iSine 10. Sadly, the cable I received isn't keyed properly for the Audezes, so I just decided to use them on the ED16. Here's how it looks integrated into my EDC rig:



Spoiler












This cable is sweet. I mean it better be considering I paid 30 USD for it...in a way, it reminds me almost exactly of the cord that came with the Noble X, save for the insulated ear loops, microphone, and right-angle connector. While I'm not a firm believer in massive improvements in SQ when changing cables, I did notice a _drastic _improvement in coherency and smoothness. Some of the issues I was having with treble peaks are still there, but it has been diminished.

Also, these ear loops are fantastic. That's _just_ insulation, not memory wire, so it hangs comfortably and the way they braided the cables really helps with any issues I might have had with microphonics. Other big plus? Cable length is perfect for me and doesn't just constantly loop and twist on the way down to my pocket. Suffice to say, I wholeheartedly recommend.

Cable is made by OKCSC and available on AliExpress.


----------



## mbwilson111

maxxevv said:


> At least they take up a whole lot less room within the house ....



Are you sure about that?  Have you looked at my list?  There are quite a few headphones too.  Plus I own a couple of pairs of shoes.  I am not barefoot when I leave the house  However, my husband has more shoes than I do...and iems, headphones and buds.

I have more teddy bears.  He only has a panda...

I only want ONE more KZ.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> The lettering in the right earpiece of the ED16 says ZS7 .. the left one has some other lines of text


I tried to search for ED16 on the Aliexpress KZ Store and came up with nothing. I wonder if I did something wrong or if they are discontinued for sure. **** has like 4,000 of them according to their Ali.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I tried to search for ED16 on the Aliexpress KZ Store



You will have to order from whoever has them.


----------



## Strat Rider (Jul 13, 2018)

ZSA, Right out of the mailbox, into my earz.

I thought I was going to wait for all the hype to lessen and read more reviews before jumping into the new releases... WRONG!

If this is a new BA, designed in house, then I believe KZ is on the right track. This is the first to my ears, that doesn't make the highs overpower the mids. I have read that some tracks may hear a recess in the mids.

Like others have mentioned, fit is certainly going to be a mixed bag. I am using my typical med-left & large-right starline combo. Could use a little tip rolling, but OOTB, I think I will be able to give these a good listen.

Bass is prominent, but not overbearing, treble is more controlled than es3, zst before.
 Just finished listening to EL&P "Lucky Man" and "From the Beginning" and currently listening to Imelda May, "Tainted Love" and so far I like the SQ.

In my recent purchases, I would rank them 1st to last ZS7 (ED16) , ZSA, ES4.

Disclaimer : I am not a reviewer, merely a sharer of the sounds that my ears hear and brain interpret. YMMV


----------



## Wiljen

robervaul said:


>



Wow, the fit on that top one doesn't look horrendous at all.  I cant wait to torture myself try those.


----------



## HungryPanda

They look like they would fit a robot


----------



## audionab

Wiljen said:


> Wow, the fit on that top one doesn't look horrendous at all.  I cant wait to torture myself try those.


KZ BA10 designed for robots


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure about that?  Have you looked at my list?  There are quite a few headphones too.  Plus I own a couple of pairs of shoes.  I am not barefoot when I leave the house  However, my husband has more shoes than I do...and iems, headphones and buds.
> 
> I have more teddy bears.  He only has a panda...
> 
> I only want ONE more KZ.



For now


----------



## mikp

any idea if those under 10$ "TRN Replacement Earphone Cable 2.5MM Balancing" are really balanced?


----------



## Wiljen

mikp said:


> any idea if those under 10$ "TRN Replacement Earphone Cable 2.5MM Balancing" are really balanced?



Yep, they is.  They are 4 strands below the splitter and 2 above so unless they just soldered them stupid they are as advertised.   My set is starting to take on a green tint like a lot of the cheap cables do, but I cant tell that it has done anything to degrade the sound.


----------



## mikp

Wiljen said:


> Yep, they is.  They are 4 strands below the splitter and 2 above so unless they just soldered them stupid they are as advertised.   My set is starting to take on a green tint like a lot of the cheap cables do, but I cant tell that it has done anything to degrade the sound.



Thanks, have the zs3 with the aptx bluetooth module. Really like the sound so maybe some wired kz. Either es4 or ed16 with balanced, who knows. Have no idea other than I like the zs3 sound and comfort


----------



## Slater (Jul 13, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> My set is starting to take on a green tint like a lot of the cheap cables do, but I cant tell that it has done anything to degrade the sound.



The cheap cables are usually plated with tin, not silver.

And the green doesn’t affect the sound in any way. It’s just surface oxidation. It actually protects the wire from further oxidation. Which is a good thing. It’s actually why copper cables are coated in the 1st place.


----------



## WildSeven

robervaul said:


>


Don't think I am going to jump on the hype train soon, been there, done that, and feel the pain.



Wiljen said:


> Wow, the fit on that top one doesn't look horrendous at all.  I cant wait to torture myself try those.


I don't think I have monster ears but actually the ZS10 fits me well, and they seal great. consider AS10 shell looks a lot similar they had no problem with fitting.


----------



## MDH12AX7

audionab said:


> i never thought these tennmak wide bores would have caused scratchy ear
> i have the same problem too but only after like 2-3 hours of continuous use


A very tiny amount of mineral oil applied to the tips might help. My doctor recommended  mineral oil to condition my ears and to aid in cleaning. It doesn't take much!


----------



## HungryPanda (Jul 13, 2018)

hearing aid places have tube of safe lubricant in little tube, when I got my customs they sent a tube, or you can just rub the tips with a little water and not only does it give a better seal helps with irritation. a tiny amount of olive oil is useful too


----------



## mikp

should not have looked at ali tonight. Got the es4, 2 2.5 "balanced" cables and the kx apt-x bluetooth module for 41$.

Have the zs3 with trn (bluetooth) and works very well, interesting to see how the 13.51 kz apt-x compares.


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

I don't know if anybody else has already posted about this issue, but I've just received the ZS6 and the right earpiece is defective. When you put it inside the ear canal it makes clicky noises like if the air pressure is pushing the diaphragm of one ore more dynamic drivers. Even the volume gets lower than the left earpiece until you find the right "click" that eventually makes it sound fine and as loud as the left channel. But as soon as you push it deeper like when you're walking and it gets loose, it clicks and the sound quality degrades again. The left earpiece is free from this issue and works just fine. Is there an easy fix for this?


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Jul 13, 2018)

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I don't know if anybody else has already posted about this issue, but I've just received the ZS6 and the right earpiece is defective. When you put it inside the ear canal it makes clicky noises like if the air pressure is pushing the diaphragm of one ore more dynamic drivers. Even the volume gets lower than the left earpiece until you find the right "click" that eventually makes it sound fine and as loud as the left channel. But as soon as you push it deeper like when you're walking and it gets loose, it clicks and the sound quality degrades again. The left earpiece is free from this issue and works just fine. Is there an easy fix for this?


You are describing driver flex. It's exactly how you describe. There are a few things to try.... Try different tips. Maybe smaller size or different type. Also, try opening your mouth wide while inserting them to or try reaching over your head and pulling up on your ear as you insert them. If none of this helps, there may be a blocked vent hole. I don't have a ZS6 nearby but someone else might coach you on how to clear the vent. If the problem persists, I would contact the seller as it will likely put extra stress on the dynamic drivers and cause premature failure. Good luck, hope you get it fixed!


----------



## deco cat

Any info about BA10? I'm dissappointed of ZS10, I found ZS6 superior.


----------



## deco cat

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I don't know if anybody else has already posted about this issue, but I've just received the ZS6 and the right earpiece is defective. When you put it inside the ear canal it makes clicky noises like if the air pressure is pushing the diaphragm of one ore more dynamic drivers. Even the volume gets lower than the left earpiece until you find the right "click" that eventually makes it sound fine and as loud as the left channel. But as soon as you push it deeper like when you're walking and it gets loose, it clicks and the sound quality degrades again. The left earpiece is free from this issue and works just fine. Is there an easy fix for this?



Same to me. I stretch up the ears to fit the plug when I'm inserting, then release.


----------



## MDH12AX7

deco cat said:


> Any info about BA10? I'm dissappointed of ZS10, I found ZS6 superior.


We're all waiting for info on the BA10.... Hasn't been released yet. I have high hopes as I don't own an IEM without at least 1 dynamic driver.


----------



## Strat Rider

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure about that?  Have you looked at my list?  There are quite a few headphones too.  Plus I own a couple of pairs of shoes.  I am not barefoot when I leave the house  However, my husband has more shoes than I do...and iems, headphones and buds.
> 
> I have more teddy bears.  He only has a panda...
> 
> I only want ONE more KZ.



There is only ONE more KZ to get....The Next One!


----------



## mbwilson111

Strat Rider said:


> There is only ONE more KZ to get....The Next One!



The PURPLE one!  I hope they have not changed their plan...


----------



## HungryPanda

The robot one!


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

deco cat said:


> Same to me. I stretch up the ears to fit the plug when I'm inserting, then release.


I pierced the little hole beside the tip and it doesn't click anymore. Now I'm only afraid I have pierced the diaphragm of one driver beneath too, because I heard the click of thin plastic, and the volume seems to be a little lower.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

robervaul said:


>


Why is a balanced armature earphone open back

And why it is so much sharp on edges..

Ummmmm


----------



## BadReligionPunk

robervaul said:


>



Beep Boop beep Boop bop Boop Beep


----------



## maxxevv (Jul 13, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure about that?  Have you looked at my list?  There are quite a few headphones too.  Plus I own a couple of pairs of shoes.  I am not barefoot when I leave the house  However, my husband has more shoes than I do...and iems, headphones and buds.
> 
> I have more teddy bears.  He only has a panda...
> 
> I only want ONE more KZ.



lol .... 

I was referring to a 1 : 1 comparison of space requirements of earphones versus shoes.

I have seen your list, its still "manageable" by measures of volume (not quantity). 

A "high net worth" friend of mine has as many pairs of boutique shoes and handbags as your audio collection in absolute numbers. She has a full room reserved for all her 'precious'. 
We ( at the house warming party at her place) all flipped when she opened one of her cabinets that had some 6~7 Hermes Birkin's and Kelly's in them! It was madness .....

Getting back to KZ's ...  They seem to have recycled the casing of the ZS10 for the AS10 ??


----------



## HerrXRDS

robervaul said:


>


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I tried modding ES4 by punching the hole in the front driver vent.. Bass vanished...not good

Use feviquick to block the vent.

It was stopped with non porous paper...


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I tried modding ES4 by punching the hole in the front driver vent.. Bass vanished...not good
> 
> Use feviquick to block the vent.
> 
> It was stopped with non porous paper...


RIP ES4


----------



## Prosny

Hi everyone, I have just received the ZSAs. They're decent, just as I expected them, surely superior to my Xiaomi hybrid pro hd. I have bought a Bluetooth upgrade cable for them too, the 4.2 version (electronics still on the right but upgraded from the 4.1 one), and I'm very pleased with it. I have a question about it, however: apart from the loss in detail in the highs (that BTW I almost find pleasing, since it means no more sharpness), I've noticed a clear DSP correction going on in the lower end (I believe from 250hz down) that leads to a very low maximum volume and bloated bass. EQing it with the standard equalizer in my S8 I've not only noticed a cleaner sound, but also an increase in volume. This is what surprised me: I didn't think that by counteracting the original Kz EQ I could also restore the negative preamplification that was previously needed for the bass boost. Do any of you guys have experience with this phenomenon or have a different explanation from mine?

Thanks a lot in advance


----------



## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I tried modding ES4 by punching the hole in the front driver vent.. Bass vanished...not good


Ask advice next time  LOL


----------



## dhruvmeena96

audionab said:


> RIP ES4





CoiL said:


> Ask advice next time  LOL


I will ask before modding..

Plus @audionab I will pay you extra, will you do a payment for New ES4 in august(same blue) for me.

I will pay 1000inr.. The same amount I paid for this ES4.

My bank issue is not sorted


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I will ask before modding..
> 
> Plus @audionab I will pay you extra, will you do a payment for New ES4 in august(same blue) for me.
> 
> ...


lol no


----------



## dhruvmeena96

audionab said:


> lol no


Please


----------



## 1clearhead

robervaul said:


>


OK, you got me!...Now that is totally interesting!


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> OK, you got me!...Now that is totally interesting!



I think that thing looks horribly uncomfortable.  I am not interested in those at all.  I am only interested in the purple one from the original photo showing 2018 releases.  I like the color.  Would be nice if it sounds good as well.  Judging from what has been released so far, I think  it will be good.


----------



## Phantomize

robervaul said:


>


Thank you!


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> I think that thing looks horribly uncomfortable.  I am not interested in those at all.  I am only interested in the purple one from the original photo showing 2018 releases.  I like the color.  Would be nice if it sounds good as well.  Judging from what has been released so far, I think  it will be good.


Yea, what I meant was will the amount of BA armatures be more justifiable to the prior releases which was a mixed bag of good and bad reviews (in my personal opinion).


----------



## Phantomize

So we got two 5 BA IEMS and one 8 driver IEM coming up?


----------



## Makahl

People talking that this new KZ looks like a robot but I still thinking KZ's designers are getting inspiration watching SpongeBob. 



Spoiler


----------



## Incel

I see the hamster wheel of KZ. Instead of giving you a few good ones to choose, you buy all of the cheap ones every release. The first versions like the ZS5 are better than the newer ones, and then you keep getting "updates" that show evidence of quality fade.

Their treble tuning has recently become worse and worse, do they have faulty equipment? They stuff more and more drivers inside, but the better ones are the ones with one or two drivers inside.

My ZS5 gave out: one side is very low volume. If anyone has any help (its not the cable) please contact me. Its the right side if that helps.

I bought more and more expensive ones from them and they are all lacking in some way, and I continue to buy them. A lot of them don't have a ridge to keep the silicone inside. A lot of them have fitting problems. Some of them are lacking from being able to come out of the replaceable cables. I heard that nicehck bro is good since it uses different cables and has that, but I don't know if the case will fit me.

Any suggestions for KZ-like headphones that have basic features I didn't even know were missing? It such a shame that they can't even put a notch on their high end, I mean expensive offerings (ZS5, ZS6, ZS10) so that this problem always occurs and you pay more for it!


----------



## hiflofi (Jul 15, 2018)

Incel said:


> I see the hamster wheel of KZ. Instead of giving you a few good ones to choose, you buy all of the cheap ones every release. The first versions like the ZS5 are better than the newer ones, and then you keep getting "updates" that show evidence of quality fade.
> 
> Their treble tuning has recently become worse and worse, do they have faulty equipment? They stuff more and more drivers inside, but the better ones are the ones with one or two drivers inside.
> 
> ...



Maybe quit buying KZ or chifi as a whole? Actually, this borderline addiction isn't even a problem exclusive to chifi. You'll get a select few who are flush with cash and want every TOTL IEM ever. There's never an endgame.
Also, I understand it's tempting at the price, but KZ doesn't even pack an assortment of tips beyond the bare minimum, so that should signal to you that they're not paying much attention to detail.
Call me cynical, but personally I'm not expecting attention to detail from KZ at this price.
If you're buying entry-level chifi, you're pretty much diving head-first into the bargain bin so enter with caution, be prepared to be disappointed, and you'll be a happier person when you get something nice.
If you want fewer issues, consider buying locally, demoing the sound, paying a slight premium, maybe even taking the leap to mid-level IEMs for more consistent performance.
I'm just saying, KZ exists to make money, you exist to enjoy the sound of their product. If you stop enjoying their product, maybe it's time to stop purchasing?


----------



## audionab

hiflofi said:


> Maybe quit buying KZ or chifi as a whole? Actually, this borderline addiction isn't even a problem exclusive to chifi. You'll get a select few who are flush with cash and want every TOTL IEM ever. There's never an endgame.
> Also, I understand it's tempting at the price, but KZ doesn't even pack an assortment of tips beyond the bare minimum, so that should signal to you that they're not paying much attention to detail.
> Call me cynical, but personally I'm not expecting attention to detail from KZ at this price.
> If you're buying entry-level chifi, you're pretty much diving head-first into the bargain bin so enter with caution, be prepared to be disappointed, and you'll be a happier person when you get something nice.
> ...


and thats why we spend 15$ on a KZ iem 

we get the best sound for 15$ at that time

but spending 40$ or 50$ on KZ would be a big no because they don't have the best QC and after sales service i would better off buying well known non chi-fi brand's iems for consistent QC and after sales service 

i remember buying a senn cx180 in past and got it replaced like 4 times in 2 years and had a huge stack of its tips although that iems sucked but i got like 12 pairs of tips not too shabby lol


----------



## fluteloop (Jul 15, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Maybe quit buying KZ or chifi as a whole? Actually, this borderline addiction isn't even a problem exclusive to chifi. You'll get a select few who are flush with cash and want every TOTL IEM ever. There's never an endgame.
> Also, I understand it's tempting at the price, but KZ doesn't even pack an assortment of tips beyond the bare minimum, so that should signal to you that they're not paying much attention to detail.
> Call me cynical, but personally I'm not expecting attention to detail from KZ at this price.
> If you're buying entry-level chifi, you're pretty much diving head-first into the bargain bin so enter with caution, be prepared to be disappointed, and you'll be a happier person when you get something nice.
> ...



Assortment of tips. I've tried dozens of different types of tips for the kz's I always go back to the included buds, this tells me they're ALL about attention to detail.


----------



## nxnje

Questions for you all:
- Anyone with KZ ZSR and small ears? Do you have fitting problems?
- Anyone that owns kz zsa and can compare them with MEMT x5 and KZ ZSR?
Are they a real upgrade from a memt x5?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

hiflofi said:


> Maybe quit buying KZ or chifi as a whole? Actually, this borderline addiction isn't even a problem exclusive to chifi. You'll get a select few who are flush with cash and want every TOTL IEM ever. There's never an endgame.
> Also, I understand it's tempting at the price, but KZ doesn't even pack an assortment of tips beyond the bare minimum, so that should signal to you that they're not paying much attention to detail.
> Call me cynical, but personally I'm not expecting attention to detail from KZ at this price.
> If you're buying entry-level chifi, you're pretty much diving head-first into the bargain bin so enter with caution, be prepared to be disappointed, and you'll be a happier person when you get something nice.
> ...


Go get a NiceHCK bro then.

And chi fi new disorder was recently discovered

BiTYDD: Buy iem Till You Drop Dead

Just don't get this disorder.


And yah guys, KZ store now officially announce the AS10...still don't know about the metal one.

And Bluedio T6 is going on crazy pre order sale.
Noise cancellation is something like Bose QC25 introduced(the dual mic; one inside and one outside) with massive 57mm driver and dual magnet. It is something of 2k inr or in between 40usd to 50usd. The earcups are massive(way massive) in pics, somethconstruction
 plus titanium headband and full metal construction

@audionab


----------



## ViperScull (Jul 15, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> And Bluedio T6 is going on crazy pre order sale.
> Noise cancellation is something like Bose QC25 introduced(the dual mic; one inside and one outside) with massive 57mm driver and dual magnet. It is something of 2k inr or in between 40usd to 50usd. The earcups are massive(way massive) in pics, somethconstruction
> plus titanium headband and full metal construction
> 
> @audionab



Indeed. I saw it today and I was thinking about getting them. 32$ in 3 days in Aliexpress. I think they don't have sd card slot like the t3 plus, but it seems they sound great. My only concern is when the active noise cancellation is on; on the T5s the sound quality takes a hit.


----------



## deco cat

Anyone tried to pair ZS6 with Dragonfly Red (via smartphone)?


----------



## Phantomize

Has anyone got any recommendations for eartips for the KZ ZS5 V1 and the ZS10? And would you guys recommend double flange or triple flange tips (I have never tried them)?


----------



## skajohyros

Phantomize said:


> Has anyone got any recommendations for eartips for the KZ ZS5 V1 and the ZS10? And would you guys recommend double flange or triple flange tips (I have never tried them)?


Don't you like the stock starline tips?
I really like them on my zs5v1.
I don't like double and triple flange at all.


----------



## Phantomize (Jul 15, 2018)

skajohyros said:


> Don't you like the stock starline tips?
> I really like them on my zs5v1.
> I don't like double and triple flange at all.



I do like them but I thought that there might be better alternatives.


----------



## Slater (Jul 15, 2018)

audionab said:


> ...i remember buying a senn cx180 in past and got it replaced like 4 times in 2 years...



4xs in 2 years? Just goes to show you that QC issues and longevity issues can occur with ANY brand, even the “big names”. People like to dog on KZ, but NO ONE is impervious to issues.

Still, hard to beat KZ for bang for the buck value. I’m jamming to my EDR1 right now, which can be had for $2.60. I’ve beat the heck out of them, and they are still going strong 3 years later. At that price, I’ll have no heartache when they finally decide to die.


----------



## audionab

Slater said:


> 4xs in 2 years? Just goes to show you that QC issues and longevity issues can occur with ANY brand, even the “big names”. People like to dog on KZ, but everyone has issues.
> 
> Still, hard to beat KZ for bang for the buck value. I’m jamming to my EDR1 right now, which can be had for $2.60. I’ve beat the heck out of them, and they are still going strong 3 years later.


i went 2 times with perfectly fine iems


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Go get a NiceHCK bro then.
> 
> And chi fi new disorder was recently discovered
> 
> ...


lol you are late already ordered isk hf2010


----------



## Slater

ViperScull said:


> Indeed. I saw it today and I was thinking about getting them. 32$ in 3 days in Aliexpress. I think they don't have sd card slot like the t3 plus, but it seems they sound great. My only concern is when the active noise cancellation is on; on the T5s the sound quality takes a hit.



In my experience, sound is always going to take a hit with ANC. Some is better implemented than others though.


----------



## Aparker2005

How is the AS10 going to differ from the ZS10?


----------



## Phantomize

Aparker2005 said:


> How is the AS10 going to differ from the ZS10?



5 BA drivers instead of 4 BA + 1 DD.


----------



## Aparker2005

Phantomize said:


> 5 BA drivers instead of 4 BA + 1 DD.



Ah. Any preference on that from you guys? Will this be a huge difference? I'm new to iems


----------



## pbui44 (Jul 15, 2018)

Aparker2005 said:


> Ah. Any preference on that from you guys? Will this be a huge difference? I'm new to iems



All-BA vs. Hybrid-BA-Dynamic?  All-BA has a generally clearer sound, but at the expense of dynamic characteristics, like bass and tonality.  This is at least with $300+ models and might not be the same with KZ models.


----------



## Incel

hiflofi said:


> Maybe quit buying KZ or chifi as a whole? Actually, this borderline addiction isn't even a problem exclusive to chifi. You'll get a select few who are flush with cash and want every TOTL IEM ever. There's never an endgame.
> Also, I understand it's tempting at the price, but KZ doesn't even pack an assortment of tips beyond the bare minimum, so that should signal to you that they're not paying much attention to detail.
> Call me cynical, but personally I'm not expecting attention to detail from KZ at this price.
> If you're buying entry-level chifi, you're pretty much diving head-first into the bargain bin so enter with caution, be prepared to be disappointed, and you'll be a happier person when you get something nice.
> ...



I have had nicer brands, perhaps nicer isn't the right word, they are more expensive. Sennheiser 280, Grado SR225, Sennheiser 558, with IEMs I used to get Etymotic IEM as well (they were pretty durable and very nice sound quality). I either got older and my ears degraded significantly but I got some ATR on a whim and I fell in love with KZ. Wow, these aren't etymotic but they sure beat paying for one! Bought EVERY KZ they had at that point since the newest one was I think the ZSTs. I tried all of the removable cable ones, and used the ZST the most since I assumed it was the most expensive and therefore the best. I removed the cables on the ZS3 and those became my new favorite. I kept losing the starlines and whatnot and I didn't know why. I realized that there was no rim to hold my tips in and that's why the always fell out. I don;t know why they don't fix this.

I got the ZS5 after a few months thinking it was gonna be much better. It was nice but I didn't really like it more. It wasn't comfortable. It was clunky and hurt my ears after a while. The tips would fall out even more often. Now one of the drivers died on the side. 

I slowed down way more after that but I got the ES3 since I had to replace my ZS3 (one side fell out of the cable, a downside of the replaceable cables). I got it stolen with a few of my things and I was looking to get a replacement one, but they jacked up the price and now the new version exists. So I was curious to see if it was a good idea to buy it.



audionab said:


> and thats why we spend 15$ on a KZ iem
> 
> we get the best sound for 15$ at that time
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with this at all. KZ is good at making cheap IEM with one or two drivers, and then when they get big those tuning issues become a bigger deal than the problems they had before. I think my ZS5 taught me that lesson, its why I never touched the ZS6 or the more expensive ones that have more drivers and not more quality. they are bigger and less comfortable. They fit more drivers but not better sound. They are trying very hard to make a compelling product and they are not bad, but I think that they can't beat their own low end, at least to me.

Its why I wanted to see if there was a KZ like brand or a clone like I mentioned the bro as a possible replacement. Not sure if little problems are fixed versus the original KZs or what you guys think. I am not much of an audiophile, I like the KZ sound but the comfort is not good enough for me and I prefer replaceable cables. I have small ears. Will the ES4 be the same as the ES3? Should I go with another brand? I am sure you experts know more than me, I am just a simple incel.


----------



## Slater

Aparker2005 said:


> Ah. Any preference on that from you guys? Will this be a huge difference? I'm new to iems



No one has heard it yet. There are definitely going to be differences though.

How the sound differs will depend on the exact drivers used and the tuning.

In general, you should probably at least expect much less sub bass on the all-BA A10, as most BA drivers are usually not capable of reproducing sub-bass frequencies.

I sure hope KZ isn’t planning on simply sticking in a bunch of 30095 and 50060 drivers and calling it a day...


----------



## hiflofi

I'm hoping KZ goes bass-light with a neutral-bright signature. However, the typical KZ sound is *nothing *like that so I don't have any real expectations.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have a few multi  all BA iems and good bass on those, it is all in the BA tuning


----------



## audionab

HungryPanda said:


> I have a few multi  all BA iems and good bass on those, it is all in the BA tuning


they would probably cost more than 20 ES4s


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

Still waiting for my Gearbest order to arrive, but I've ordered the ES4 after reading reviews here. I was initially interested in the ED16's, but I like my bass and I usually like a bit of a warmer tone. So far, best chifi sound for me has been the Xiaomi Piston 2.0. Is the ES4 also similarly V-shaped?

I get that a lot of people are into balanced sound signatures here, but for me that makes listening to music too clinical. A good, strong and clear bassline can really make or break a track for me.


----------



## HungryPanda

@Drinkyoghurt the ES4 will suit you well


----------



## Wiljen (Jul 15, 2018)

I posted my ES4 notes tonight.  Might be worth a read to see if it sounds like something you'd want.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-es4.23181/reviews#review-20572

To me, the ES4 is probably the best thing KZ has released to date for casual listening.  It isnt reference or anywhere close, but it is very energetic and very engaging and makes long listening sessions pleasant.


----------



## scottySK (Jul 16, 2018)

Received my trn v80's today. First impressions are positive, love the metallic blue colour. Bass is present but not over powering and they aren't particularly sibilant. Seem sort of similar to the ZSA's. Mids are slightly recessed, definitely not a neutral tuning.

Enjoying them so far


----------



## audionab

scottySK said:


> Received my trn v80's today. First impressions are positive, love the metallic blue colour. Bass is present but not over powering and they aren't particularly sibilant. Seem sort of similar to the ZSA's. Mids are slightly recessed, definitely not a neutral tuning.
> 
> Enjoying them so far


mid bass bleed? 
how about the soundstage comparing any of your other iems?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Many of people here don't get what BA vs dynamic is in bass department.

BA are sensitive to signal but move way less air. It is like very fast bass but the eardrum take it as a air movement and not air canal pressure change. Most of people multi BA in custom iem to seal the whole ear so that they can get the proper bass.

Dynamic driver is way bigger and is very capable of moving air(ask @Slater how much Philips 3300 moves air).

But the fact is multi BA driver or multi Dynamic is easy to tune

BA tuning is done by frequency pressure equivalent way and dynamic is tuned by total air mass spring tuning.


BA distorts in lower bass due to narrowband nature and low bass pressure instead of energy of high frequency.

So Bassy BA are made way bigger in size(Knowles CI driver or Sonion 38x series) or sometimes sandwiched (Knowles HODVTEC or Sonion 38xj), sometimes bigger than dynamic driver(westone proprietary Knowles or UERM).

For example

64audio u18t has 8 Bass DTEC balanced armature which still produce less bass than 13mm+CI 64audio tia Fourté. But u18t control is way more than Fourté, but to enjoy bass I have to use symbio tips


----------



## Shuikit

nxnje said:


> Questions for you all:
> - Anyone with KZ ZSR and small ears? Do you have fitting problems?



Yes - I've really struggled getting the zsr to fit well.  I normally use small silicone tips and struggle to get any over the nozzle, which is bigger than all the other KZs I have and makes the tips stretch.  Having tried every tip that I have including foam ones which others have had success with but I don't get along with, I have given up on the zsr.


----------



## scottySK

audionab said:


> mid bass bleed?
> how about the soundstage comparing any of your other iems?



I'm no audiophile but I don't think there's much mid bass bleed going on.

Soundstage is similar to es3 and ZSA but maybe a touch wider, but not as good as zs10


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Shuikit said:


> Yes - I've really struggled getting the zsr to fit well.  I normally use small silicone tips and struggle to get any over the nozzle, which is bigger than all the other KZs I have and makes the tips stretch.  Having tried every tip that I have including foam ones which others have had success with but I don't get along with, I have given up on the zsr.


Have you tried the stock Starline small tips? I've fit various other tips but would agree it can take some effort due to the thickness.

If you have really narrow ear canals you will probably have a more comfortable fit with longer tips that extend past the nozzle, such as the Starlines. With shorter tips the long, wide nozzle may press against the canals.


----------



## Shuikit

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Have you tried the stock Starline small tips? I've fit various other tips but would agree it can take some effort due to the thickness.
> 
> If you have really narrow ear canals you will probably have a more comfortable fit with longer tips that extend past the nozzle, such as the Starlines. With shorter tips the long, wide nozzle may press against the canals.



Yes but the medium ones are too wide to be comfortable than more than about 10 mins and the small ones are too long, they are long and narrow.  Basically I find that the most comfortable tips for me are the really cheap silicone ones, no matter what I've tried (inc foam and spinfit), they're the only ones that are comfortable for any length of time

eg
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Han...326.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dBpfD7r


----------



## Makahl

Oh, nice! KZ has a black cable now: 
https://detail.1688.com/offer/573574767504.html?spm=a2615.2177701.0.0.6973133bixbzwD







My KZs look fancier with black cables on. Not sure if I will need it now since I got a bunch of TRNs, but still cool.


----------



## neo_styles (Jul 16, 2018)

So I might have accidentally destroyed a pair of Auvio tips. Tried to follow the advice in this thread on trimming some of the inner core out so the tips could sit flush with the grille on my ZS10 and now they basically don't stay on at all (staying in my ear if I'm not careful). Can't remember if there was a potential solution to this, outside of using something sticky to keep it attached to the nozzle. Any advice?

*_edit_* It's permanent, but just ended up using Loctite. Cheap as these things are, don't really care that they're stuck together for life now.


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

HungryPanda said:


> @Drinkyoghurt the ES4 will suit you well



Awesome, looking forward to it! I've had some more expensive IEMs before which were super clear and really got everything in there, but no bass. They really felt super clinical and not fun to listen to at all. It's always difficult to gauge an IEM's performance off online reviews since everyone has different taste, hearing capabilities and ear canals to distort the sound. I was really surprised with the KZ ATE though, so I have high hopes for the ES4


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

Shuikit said:


> Yes but the medium ones are too wide to be comfortable than more than about 10 mins and the small ones are too long, they are long and narrow.  Basically I find that the most comfortable tips for me are the really cheap silicone ones, no matter what I've tried (inc foam and spinfit), they're the only ones that are comfortable for any length of time
> 
> eg
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Han...326.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dBpfD7r


I don't know what to tell you, I've put Spinfits on my ZSR and I think those have a rather thin stem.

Try to put the tips on at an angle where you first get one side over the edge of the nozzle and slowly stretch it to where it fits all the way around.


----------



## Wiljen

neo_styles said:


> So I might have accidentally destroyed a pair of Auvio tips. Tried to follow the advice in this thread on trimming some of the inner core out so the tips could sit flush with the grille on my ZS10 and now they basically don't stay on at all (staying in my ear if I'm not careful). Can't remember if there was a potential solution to this, outside of using something sticky to keep it attached to the nozzle. Any advice?
> 
> *_edit_* It's permanent, but just ended up using Loctite. Cheap as these things are, don't really care that they're stuck together for life now.



a drop of rubber cement on the nozzle wall works too and might be easier to trade tips later should you decide to.


----------



## neo_styles

Wiljen said:


> a drop of rubber cement on the nozzle wall works too and might be easier to trade tips later should you decide to.


That's not a bad idea. Maybe I'll consider it next time. These tips aren't going anywhere from now on, though 

Also hopped over to RadioShack's website and it looks like the Auvio wide-bores are still on clearance at $1/2 pairs. Picked up another 4 units for the heck of it.


----------



## Tunaa

i have been searching about KZ ZS6 V2. So please tell me Which one is more good? ZS6 V1 or New one V2 ?(Gray)


----------



## Slater

Tunaa said:


> i have been searching about KZ ZS6 V2. So please tell me Which one is more good? ZS6 V1 or New one V2 ?(Gray)



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992


----------



## Tunaa

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992








[/url][/IMG]  *But hey, this new one must be different. it has new BA ?*


----------



## Tunaa

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992


http://hizliresim.com/BzrgDG


----------



## Tunaa

hakuzen said:


> i've just received grey zs6. also got red ones with qq email, zsr, and zs5v2.
> will try to measure them (fr response and maybe impedance curve) this week if i have the time for it, and will compare to older zs6 (not qq email) to check if something changed



*So? Is there any difference between colors ? GREY one ?*


----------



## Tunaa

zazaboy said:


> got the kz ate today ... and they are freaking good best kz so far .. sound signature is amazing... my favourite kz so far... its even better kz edr1 kz zs6 and kz es3 ... cant believe they are soo cheap ... they provide very natural sound... and nice mids... cant believe I payed so cheap... kz ate is a nice little gem .. this gem needs be more known here


dude the grey kz zs6 is better than or not?


----------



## Slater

Tunaa said:


> *So? Is there any difference between colors ? GREY one ?*





Tunaa said:


> dude the grey kz zs6 is better than or not?



I’ve already answered this question. 

Read the info I linked above.


----------



## Slater (Jul 16, 2018)

slapo said:


> There are two relatively new Bluedio headphones, TM and T6, and they both seem to lack a 3.5mm port. It's nowhere to be found in the specs. I realise they're Bluetooth headphones, but eh, I like a 3.5mm port on bluetooth devices. I hope it's not a sign of things to come. :-/





ViperScull said:


> Indeed. I saw it today and I was thinking about getting them. 32$ in 3 days in Aliexpress. I think they don't have sd card slot like the t3 plus, but it seems they sound great. My only concern is when the active noise cancellation is on; on the T5s the sound quality takes a hit.



Hey, I just realized something with the T6.

It’s not just simply missing a 3.5mm jack; it’s TOTALLY missing the ability to run it in wired mode!

The 4S and 5 has USB-C, but at least they could be run wired and included a USB-C to 3.5mm cable. The T6 has no such functionality; it’s wireless only.

That’s not cool at all. You are screwed when the battery is run down. And when the battery eventually dies completely, you can’t even use the T6 as a wired-only headphone (like I do with 1 of my T3+). It will end up in the landfill.

Such a shame.


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Jul 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> Hey, I just realized something with the T6.
> 
> It’s not just simply missing a 3.5mm jack; it’s TOTALLY missing the ability to run it in wired mode!
> 
> ...



See, I thought the same at first, but I think it might, although it might just be very poorly advertised ... or might not even include the right cable

What gives me hope is it mentioning “audio jack” here and on the picture manual (albeit blurry)

However, I honestly don’t hold much hope of getting one. It says there are 5000 available, but above that says that they are only releasing 10 every hour right above ... so I think the 5000 is markting fluff and we will see 10 x 24 available ... so 240. So everyone is going to be spamming AliExpress fighting for scraps.

Does anyone know if these run AAC profile btw? Trying to search without much luck!


----------



## Wiljen

neo_styles said:


> So I might have accidentally destroyed a pair of Auvio tips. Tried to follow the advice in this thread on trimming some of the inner core out so the tips could sit flush with the grille on my ZS10 and now they basically don't stay on at all (staying in my ear if I'm not careful). Can't remember if there was a potential solution to this, outside of using something sticky to keep it attached to the nozzle. Any advice?
> 
> *_edit_* It's permanent, but just ended up using Loctite. Cheap as these things are, don't really care that they're stuck together for life now.





Slater said:


> Hey, I just realized something with the T6.
> 
> It’s not just simply missing a 3.5mm jack; it’s TOTALLY missing the ability to run it in wired mode!
> 
> ...



Batteries are often easier to replace than you might think.   If you can get that T3 apart and get me dimensions and any #s off it, I can probably find a suitable replacement.


----------



## Slater (Jul 16, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Batteries are often easier to replace than you might think.   If you can get that T3 apart and get me dimensions and any #s off it, I can probably find a suitable replacement.



Nah, I wasn’t talking about me not being able to replace the batteries, but rather the average person. I do appreciate the offer to help though!

The T3+ that died was actually not the battery but rather the microprocessor on the circuit board itself. I ended up removing all Bluetooth components (saving what I could as spare parts for my other pairs of T3s), swapping the stock 57mm drivers for 40mm graphene drivers, and converting it to an open-backed design. Although I’m planning on changing the graphenes for KSC75 drivers, as I’m not too impressed with the graphenes in the open cups (whereas the KSC75 would sound much better run open).


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> Nah, I wasn’t talking about me not being able to replace the batteries, but rather the average person. I do appreciate the offer to help though!
> 
> The T3+ that died was actually not the battery but rather the microprocessor on the circuit board itself. I ended up removing all Bluetooth components (saving what I could as spare parts for my other pairs of T3s), swapping the stock 57mm drivers for 40mm graphene drivers, and converting it to an open-backed design. Although I’m planning on changing the graphenes for KSC75 drivers, as I’m not too impressed with the graphenes in the open cups (whereas the KSC75 would sound much better run open).



Try to find some used Magnum drivers, as those are used in Grado clones all the time.

In regards to all of those who laughed at me buying KZ ZS6 in green with lip for $50, just remember that KZs can be made at hundreds, if not thousands, of different manufacturing sites in China.  Because of this, fabrication processes and QC can vary greatly.  If you are not careful, you might have your KZs made in one assembly area and fake fentanyl pills being packed in another assembly area on the same floor.  So yeah, who’s laughing now???


----------



## Virtu Fortuna

Here are my thoughts on the ZS10: https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/


----------



## dhruvmeena96

T6 is using DAC mode for wired mode with battery powering up the phone. If QC is good, it is a good deal


Slater said:


> Nah, I wasn’t talking about me not being able to replace the batteries, but rather the average person. I do appreciate the offer to help though!
> 
> The T3+ that died was actually not the battery but rather the microprocessor on the circuit board itself. I ended up removing all Bluetooth components (saving what I could as spare parts for my other pairs of T3s), swapping the stock 57mm drivers for 40mm graphene drivers, and converting it to an open-backed design. Although I’m planning on changing the graphenes for KSC75 drivers, as I’m not too impressed with the graphenes in the open cups (whereas the KSC75 would sound much better run open).


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Virtu Fortuna said:


> Here are my thoughts on the ZS10: https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/


ZS10 has 4BA and 1 dynamic.

You wrote 2BA and dynamic. So you can correct your review.

Agree with tonality and timbre you said, but the review of your sounded too nice to be true from my side.

I think you should try ES4 with ifi iem buddy and wide bore tips. This would be KZ flagship for me.(my damaged ES4, bass of one side at high volume distorts, is still beating ZSA, ZS6 and ZS10 in sound at 70% volume with ifi iem buddy).

And it will still cost 5$ cheaper than ZS10.

It goes to the level of iBasso it01 with more extension and somewhat lower distortion of hybrid(but I think iBasso is more coherent)


----------



## Virtu Fortuna

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ZS10 has 4BA and 1 dynamic.
> 
> You wrote 2BA and dynamic. So you can correct your review.
> 
> ...


Arrgh. I was very tired when writing that part, sorry. I corrected.

How does the ES4 beats the ZS10? Does it have a better tonality or something else?

Thank you for the comment.


----------



## audionab

are single BA iems are possible to be made?


----------



## Shuikit

ChaoticKinesis said:


> I don't know what to tell you, I've put Spinfits on my ZSR and I think those have a rather thin stem.
> 
> Try to put the tips on at an angle where you first get one side over the edge of the nozzle and slowly stretch it to where it fits all the way around.



I have managed to get the tips onto the zsr, the problem is that the nozzle is bigger which stretches the tip making it physically harder and bigger than before so it's no longer comfortable in my ears.  As I have said before, I have given up on the zsr and am currently enjoying es4 and ed16s, I was mainly replying to a question further up the thread.  Thanks for your input though.


----------



## mbwilson111

audionab said:


> are single BA iems are possible to be made?



Yes, there are single BA iems available.


----------



## audionab

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, there are single BA iems available.


can i get some names please?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

audionab said:


> are single BA iems are possible to be made?


Yes they are....those are wide band transducer and are more luckily to have less distortion than narrowband but are not so clean sounding until or unless they are made in with better quality.

Knowles RAB or ED series don't sound that nice even if you reach etymotic FR while doing a home project. Etymotic or warbler prelude can destroy your diy neutral single BA project.



Virtu Fortuna said:


> Arrgh. I was very tired when writing that part, sorry. I corrected.
> 
> How does the ES4 beats the ZS10? Does it have a better tonality or something else?
> 
> Thank you for the comment.


Yup, ES4 with wide bore and ifi iem buddy combo is more coherent, larger stage and way more proper tuning than the nasal ZS10. ES4 is on borderline of roll off and boosted but not neutral. This makes it more extended and sparkly while bass digs deeper than ZS10. Mids are more upfront and instrument have proper space.

Did neutraliser eq on both and found that ES4 blends and smoothen instrument while retaining detailing(coherent) but ZS10 instrument sound separated and weird as violin and trumpets even after eq are a little brittle and decayish plus are still in front(not that much, but yeah) making its space to be weird. It does better job in songs with 1 or 2 instruments and vocalist, but complex track gets a weird stage(weird placement).

I listened them to Benchmark media DAC3 HGC with low gain


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Etymotic er4 series, campfire comet, warbler prelude, niceHCK dt100 and famous shure se215


audionab said:


> can i get some names please?


----------



## mbwilson111

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, there are single BA iems available.





audionab said:


> can i get some names please?



Astrotec AM90 (been around for years)
Nicehck DT100 (a few people have talked about it in other threads)
newest that I know of - Ourart Tini (maybe no one has it yet)

I think there may be others


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> shure se215


 
I thought that one was a single dynamic driver..am I wrong?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought that one was a single dynamic driver..am I wrong?


See the pics

Ohh sorry

Se315


----------



## crabdog

audionab said:


> can i get some names please?


Brainwavz B100, Brainwavz B150, ACS Evoke.


----------



## mathi8vadhanan (Jul 17, 2018)

audionab said:


> can i get some names please?



Final Audio Design - F-Series, Heaven Series
Klipsch X10, X11, X12


----------



## audionab

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Final Audio Design - F-Series, Heaven Series
> Klipsch X10, X11, X12


crazy highs roll off


----------



## limafranco (Jul 17, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Yup, ES4 with wide bore and ifi iem buddy combo is more coherent, larger stage and way more proper tuning than the nasal ZS10. ES4 is on borderline of roll off and boosted but not neutral. This makes it more extended and sparkly while bass digs deeper than ZS10. Mids are more upfront and instrument have proper space.
> 
> Did neutraliser eq on both and found that ES4 blends and smoothen instrument while retaining detailing(coherent) but ZS10 instrument sound separated and weird as violin and trumpets even after eq are a little brittle and decayish plus are still in front(not that much, but yeah) making its space to be weird. It does better job in songs with 1 or 2 instruments and vocalist, but complex track gets a weird stage(weird placement).
> 
> I listened them to Benchmark media DAC3 HGC with low gain



I was thinking of a ZS10, but now with your description, I'm considering a pair of ES4 (half of ZS10 price at aliexpress)


----------



## gemmoglock

crabdog said:


> Brainwavz B100, Brainwavz B150, ACS Evoke.


FYI Brainwavz has an Amazon sale on now: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/blogs/news/sale-amazon-brainwavz-store-and-amazon-deals


----------



## gemmoglock (Jul 17, 2018)

Hi everyone, I haven't gotten new KZs after my ATR and ZS3 so would like some advice what to get.

I'm looking for something with a moderate v signature not too strong, something like the ZS3. Would I be better off with the ZS6, ZS10 or ZSR? I read that ZS10 has tonality issues and ZSR has some sibilance/boomy bass comments so not sure what to get. I enjoy both the ATR and ZS3 so that's the kind of sound that works for me.

Also, if anyone has ideas on whether to order KZ upgrade cables or stick with stock, let me know too 

Cheers!


----------



## Zerohour88

Virtu Fortuna said:


> Here are my thoughts on the ZS10: https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/



you mentioned not knowing KZ have a site. Well, they do, but its not terribly informative. 

http://www.kzacoustics.com

most info comes from forums, their weibo page or even just them announcing products on their official tmall/aliexpress store


----------



## ChaoticKinesis

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Final Audio Design - F-Series, Heaven Series
> Klipsch X10, X11, X12



That looks a lot like your average KZ frequency response.


----------



## ViperScull

Slater said:


> Hey, I just realized something with the T6.
> 
> It’s not just simply missing a 3.5mm jack; it’s TOTALLY missing the ability to run it in wired mode!
> 
> ...



I can't tell for sure. It does have type-C USB, and on the Aliexpress page it says "Communication: Wireless + Wired", which is confusing to me.
It will be difficult to get one nevertheless.

Actually it's not just the T6s, it's like a Bluedio day on Aliexpress and it looks like everything will be on sale. I watched a review about the Speaker BS-6 which will cost about 25USD and all were impressive comments.


----------



## audionab

limafranco said:


> I was thinking of a ZS10, but now with your description, I'm considering a pair of ES4 (half of ZS10 price at aliexpress)


you can get them for 10$ with phonograph coupon


----------



## limafranco

audionab said:


> you can get them for 10$ with phonograph coupon


Thanks for the tip
I'm trying now but it says available for new users only. (at gearbest)


----------



## deaftpunk

I received the KZ ES4, while it being my first KZ as well, I believe the hype has to die. Uncomfortable tips, hated the memory wire cable and I tested them against my TRN v20's, needless to say I much more prefer the v20s over them sound wise and comfort wise, they're quite the little gem for the price, I'll probably convert the ES4s into bluetooth earphones with one of their adapters and just leave them on the side, that's my piece for them!


----------



## Slater

audionab said:


> can i get some names please?



Shure E4c
Brainwavz B100


----------



## Slater (Jul 17, 2018)

deaftpunk said:


> I received the KZ ES4, while it being my first KZ as well, I believe the hype has to die. Uncomfortable tips, hated the memory wire cable and I tested them against my TRN v20's, needless to say I much more prefer the v20s over them sound wise and comfort wise, they're quite the little gem for the price, I'll probably convert the ES4s into bluetooth earphones with one of their adapters and just leave them on the side, that's my piece for them!



Don't write off the whole KZ brand because you only tried 1 and didn't like it.

You say you like your TRN v20, but did you know that the TRN v10 sucked balls and the v60 had massive defects/recall?

Just goes to show you that every brand has some gems along with a few turd sandwiches.


----------



## deaftpunk

Slater said:


> Don't write off the whole KZ brand because you only tried 1 and didn't like it.
> 
> You say you like your TRN v20, but did you know that the TRN v10 sucked balls and the v60 had massive defects/recall?
> 
> Just goes to show you that every brand has some gems along with a few turd sandwiches.


Yup i am aware, I'm not comparing brands, just those 2 pieces. And it's all subjective so my opinion is just another drop in the water


----------



## dhruvmeena96

deaftpunk said:


> Yup i am aware, I'm not comparing brands, just those 2 pieces. And it's all subjective so my opinion is just another drop in the water


Agree with pain in ear with ES4 with wide bore tenmak. It pains like hell.

But i think wide bore and ifi iem buddy makes them budget slayer. Neutralizer takes them on another level.

TRN v20 doesn't respond to neutraliser well due to treble smoothing decay which can't be turned analytical


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

Got the new KZ BT cable yesterday. SQ is very good in APT-X mode. Battery life is also very good, got more than 6 hrs running on APT-X.
But the reception is horrible in APT-X mode, even when the source is played right on top of it. Not sure, if it's the antenna or the CSR chip struggling. It's almost like playing a pretty scratched up CD. There's no pattern to when/how this happens.  And also no pattern to the duration. I'm able to listen to 4-5 songs at a time and then it happens again for 10-15 sec and then resolves itself. Sometimes, restarting the cable is the only option.
Also, not good for video at all in SBC mode. There's a 1.5 to 2 Sec lag between audio and video. Guess, you get what you pay for. Should have spent a bit a more and gotten the TRN BT cable.


----------



## limafranco

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Got the new KZ BT cable yesterday. SQ is very good in APT-X mode. Battery life is also very good, got more than 6 hrs running on APT-X.
> But the reception is horrible in APT-X mode, even when the source is played right on top of it. Not sure, if it's the antenna or the CSR chip struggling. It's almost like playing a pretty scratched up CD. There's no pattern to when/how this happens.  And also no pattern to the duration. I'm able to listen to 4-5 songs at a time and then it happens again for 10-15 sec and then resolves itself. Sometimes, restarting the cable is the only option.
> Also, not good for video at all in SBC mode. There's a 1.5 to 2 Sec lag between audio and video. Guess, you get what you pay for. Should have spent a bit a more and gotten the TRN BT cable.



I got one of those and I regret buying it.

It's not comfortable while walking - the controls area too heavy, from one side. And battery life, in my case, it's not enough.
Sound quality it's OK, but as you mentioned, impossible to watch videos and/or play games.

Do we have other options for these bi-pin cable?


----------



## Wiljen

Cant believe no-one has said the Campfire Comet when listing single BA models.  It is right at the top of the list for best I've heard.


----------



## Zlivan

They were one of the first mentioned, you missed it.


----------



## mbwilson111

Zlivan said:


> They were one of the first mentioned, you missed it.



We should gather all the single BA models together into one list... although none of them belong in the KZ thread... yet...


----------



## audionab

mbwilson111 said:


> We should gather all the single BA models together into one list... although none of them belong in the KZ thread... yet...


i hope one day kz makes a single BA iem for 50$ or less


----------



## Zerohour88

audionab said:


> i hope one day kz makes a single BA iem for 50$ or less



uh, why would you want that? their BA hasn't exactly been super stellar.

The reason why some of these single BA IEMs are pricey is that they use either high-quality BA (like Knowles) or their own developed in-house BA (like Campfire's custom vented BA).


----------



## audionab

Zerohour88 said:


> uh, why would you want that? their BA hasn't exactly been super stellar.
> 
> The reason why some of these single BA IEMs are pricey is that they use either high-quality BA (like Knowles) or their own developed in-house BA (like Campfire's custom vented BA).


to give these pricey BA iems a good run for their money
i don't like hybrids much but rather lean on single type driver iems like double Dynamic or multi BA etc


----------



## Zerohour88

audionab said:


> to give these pricey BA iems a good run for their money
> i don't like hybrids much but rather lean on single type driver iems like double Dynamic or multi BA etc



Honestly, you'd do well to not focus on what the config of an IEM is and more on the sound that comes out of it. 

From what we've seen so far, KZ doesn't really have the chops (or the desire) to fine tune their individual DD or BA to a higher level. Hence my reasoning, that they've maxed out (or near to it) the capability of their BA/DD tuning and focusing on refining crossovers and shell design to improve their SQ. Not really something ground-breaking, I suppose, but allows us to temper expectations.


----------



## audionab

Zerohour88 said:


> Honestly, you'd do well to not focus on what the config of an IEM is and more on the sound that comes out of it.
> 
> From what we've seen so far, KZ doesn't really have the chops (or the desire) to fine tune their individual DD or BA to a higher level. Hence my reasoning, that they've maxed out (or near to it) the capability of their BA/DD tuning and focusing on refining crossovers and shell design to improve their SQ. Not really something ground-breaking, I suppose, but allows us to temper expectations.


ya 
i have owned only one kz iem i.e. es4 that too for a brief period


----------



## Slater

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Got the new KZ BT cable yesterday. SQ is very good in APT-X mode. Battery life is also very good, got more than 6 hrs running on APT-X.
> But the reception is horrible in APT-X mode, even when the source is played right on top of it. Not sure, if it's the antenna or the CSR chip struggling. It's almost like playing a pretty scratched up CD. There's no pattern to when/how this happens.  And also no pattern to the duration. I'm able to listen to 4-5 songs at a time and then it happens again for 10-15 sec and then resolves itself. Sometimes, restarting the cable is the only option.
> Also, not good for video at all in SBC mode. There's a 1.5 to 2 Sec lag between audio and video. Guess, you get what you pay for. Should have spent a bit a more and gotten the TRN BT cable.





limafranco said:


> I got one of those and I regret buying it.
> 
> It's not comfortable while walking - the controls area too heavy, from one side. And battery life, in my case, it's not enough.
> Sound quality it's OK, but as you mentioned, impossible to watch videos and/or play games.
> ...



I am really sorry to hear about your luck, but wow I am so glad I held off on ordering this.

My guess is that KZ had the same person design the Bluetooth antenna for the new model that also designed it for the previous one. The antenna for the old version is not the proper length, which causes reception problems, cutting/skipping, and massive interference. I came up with a solution, but who knows how easy it would be to open up the new cable (the only way to know would be to open it up and examine/measure the antenna).

Here's the antenna info if you want to read about it: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1284#post-13623298

Looks like it's back to the TRN cable as the best option. I just wish it wasn't so expensive. But yeah yeah I know - you get what you pay for lol


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

limafranco said:


> I got one of those and I regret buying it.
> 
> It's not comfortable while walking - the controls area too heavy, from one side. And battery life, in my case, it's not enough.
> Sound quality it's OK, but as you mentioned, impossible to watch videos and/or play games.
> ...



The newer one that he is talking about is balanced on both sides. There are other options, just search on Aliexpress for MMCX bluetooth. No experience myself but heard that these are ok https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/2018...6130-4882-90e6-7a0046ceb695&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> Honestly, you'd do well to not focus on what the config of an IEM is and more on the sound that comes out of it.



Well put sir. Solid (and true) advice.

There is absolutely zero guarantee that X or Y driver or configuration will instantly = good sound.

Now, if the OP is looking for a single BA because they are typically super compact in size, and thus good for specific purposes like sleeping, then that is another story. But then again, a micro dynamic driver can be pretty much equally as small as many single-BA IEMs.

But like you said, it all boils down to the end result (the sound). That's where the rubber meets the road.


----------



## Wiljen

Zlivan said:


> They were one of the first mentioned, you missed it.



Not surprised, with 2000 pages, I probably missed a lot more than that.

Thanks


----------



## Wiljen (Jul 17, 2018)

I think the issue with KZ is that creating a single full range BA is way more complicated than tuning an existing one. it is far easier to use dampers, capacitors and resistors to modify the sound of an existing driver than to alter the basic design to perform differently.   Even big names like Noble are having their custom drivers made by Knowles and Sonion because they know when to leave that to those who know it best.

If they cant tune a driver, the likelihood they can create a solid full range BA is almost zero.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Zerohour88 said:


> uh, why would you want that? their BA hasn't exactly been super stellar.
> 
> The reason why some of these single BA IEMs are pricey is that they use either high-quality BA (like Knowles) or their own developed in-house BA (like Campfire's custom vented BA).


They are still produced by Knowles, sonion or molex(final audio) but on special order and specs and their isnothing like in house BA


----------



## audionab

well the reason i was looking for a cheaper single BA iem because i wanted to get listening experience from BA only iems as i had never listened to one i try to guess how the bass will be from these kind of iems

just wanted to experiment


----------



## HernanKhan

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Agree with pain in ear with ES4 with wide bore tenmak. It pains like hell.
> 
> But i think wide bore and ifi iem buddy makes them budget slayer. Neutralizer takes them on another level.
> 
> TRN v20 doesn't respond to neutraliser well due to treble smoothing decay which can't be turned analytical


I know this are supposed to vary by person, but could you share your ES4 Neutralizer profile


----------



## Virtu Fortuna

Zerohour88 said:


> you mentioned not knowing KZ have a site. Well, they do, but its not terribly informative.
> 
> http://www.kzacoustics.com
> 
> most info comes from forums, their weibo page or even just them announcing products on their official tmall/aliexpress store


Very thanks for this link. I honestly couldn't find when I searched.


----------



## audionab

HernanKhan said:


> I know this are supposed to vary by person, but could you share your ES4 Neutralizer profile


usually one should set the frequency volume to minimum threshold but i experiment with this equalizer by relatively increasing certain frequencies to listen to their effect on sound
but yeah setting the frequencies to minimum threshold is the way to go


----------



## dhruvmeena96

HernanKhan said:


> I know this are supposed to vary by person, but could you share your ES4 Neutralizer profile


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 18, 2018)

audionab said:


> well the reason i was looking for a cheaper single BA iem because i wanted to get listening experience from BA only iems as i had never listened to one i try to guess how the bass will be from these kind of iems
> 
> just wanted to experiment



This one is the least expensive single BA that I can find.  If you search the forum,  there is some discussion about it.  The Astrotec AM90.  I think it has been around for a long time.  Knowles Single Balanced Armature Driver.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Earphones-AM-90-MIC/2885080_32893191632.html


----------



## nxnje

Shuikit said:


> Yes - I've really struggled getting the zsr to fit well.  I normally use small silicone tips and struggle to get any over the nozzle, which is bigger than all the other KZs I have and makes the tips stretch.  Having tried every tip that I have including foam ones which others have had success with but I don't get along with, I have given up on the zsr.



I'm gonna stay far from these then
I'm just really curious to hear how they sound as many people reported amazing reviews

Now i'm really confused.. i like the shape of the zsa, it seems very little and could easily fit my ears. Then i even think about tin audio t2, about spending some more for them

What would you tip me?


----------



## audionab

mbwilson111 said:


> This one is the least expensive single BA that I can find.  If you search the forum,  there is some discussion about it.  The Astrotec AM90.  I think it has been around for a long time.  Knowles Single Balanced Armature Driver.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...s-Earbuds-for-iPhone/2885080_32850019669.html


the link is redirecting to astrotec am800 which is a dynamic one


----------



## mbwilson111

audionab said:


> the link is redirecting to astrotec am800 which is a dynamic one



Sorry... I had too many tabs open and accidently copied the wrong link.  I have edited my post.

This should work.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Earphones-AM-90-MIC/2885080_32893191632.html


----------



## Wiljen

The thing to remember with any driver whether BA or dynamic is that efficiency is diametrically opposed to extension.   The only way to create a full range driver with good extension at both ends is to sacrifice efficiency.  The fact that the Astrotec shows really good efficiency numbers suggests its extension will be lacking.  The Campfire Comet on the other hand has an efficiency in the low 90s and an impedance of 48 Ohms as they were shooting for more extension at the expense of efficiency.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TDK BA100 is only single BA phone I have experience with. Discontinued, but was available for awhile at TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross stores for like $10. Can find them on ebay every once in awhile. 

Also set my alarm for 2am so I could buy a pair of those T6 headphones. Got a pair of them and the Bluetooth ANC earphones for 38 shipped. Pretty unbelievable. It will be interesting to compare the T6 at $30 to Sony 1000XM2 at $300. The Sonys have the best ANC going right now imo.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

BadReligionPunk said:


> Also set my alarm for 2am so I could buy a pair of those T6 headphones. Got a pair of them and the Bluetooth ANC earphones for 38 shipped. Pretty unbelievable. It will be interesting to compare the T6 at $30 to Sony 1000XM2 at $300. The Sonys have the best ANC going right now imo.



Also went ahead and bought the T6 after they confirmed it supported AAC so should be useable with iPhone etc.

Also decided to buy the BS-6 Bluetooth speaker as someone here mentioned it wasn’t too bad and was looking to try out a Bluetooth speaker. No idea if that supports AAC but fingers crossed!

This thread is not good for my wallet!


----------



## Zlivan (Jul 18, 2018)

I'm still trying to resist the urge to order those t6 
Knowing Bluedio, they are probably way too bassy, but the price is tempting. Also, ANC probably doesn't work well, but that doesn't concern me too much.

Remax RM-600M are supposed to have a single BA: http://s.aliexpress.com/yQVvIVje

I think I saw even cheaper models on Ali, but I can't remember which ones.


----------



## Slater (Jul 18, 2018)

Zlivan said:


> I'm still trying to resist the urge to order those t6
> Knowing Bluedio, they are probably way too bassy, but the price is tempting. Also, ANC probably doesn't work well, but that doesn't concern me too much.



Yes, and yes.

Bluedio was started by ex-Beats engineers, and it shows. The 57mm titanium driver they developed in-house, and use in most of their full size headphones, is very colored. The low end can be easily tuned though. All Bluedios I’ve ever seen are easily disassembled. Then you have access to the driver, and can tune it accordingly. It’s what I do to all of my Bluedios. You can also swap out the drivers for something different, using the Bluedio as a low cost donor shell.

They’re good for the price, and most of them are built solid. Perfect for teenagers that abuse and destroy gear. They are no certainty no Sennheiser HDxxx however. Think of them as an alternative to Beats, but with a more durable build.

As far as Bluedio’s ANC, it is very minimal. Bose has it pretty much perfected. Bluedio is slowly improving. Integrity T4S, they only used a single mic. It cuts more of the environmental noise, but also cuts a large portion of the low end frequency. The T5, T6, and the T energy uses a dual mic design and a different ANC algorithm. I haven’t heard the one on the T5 or T6 yet, but I can say that the T energy IEM is improved vs the T4S. It has virtually no detectable effect on the music (in my testing), but it is less effective on the environmental noise itself than the previous iteration. If I had my choice between 1) more impact on the music but more cutdown of the environment vs 2) less impact on the music but less cutdown of the environment, I’d take #2.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jul 18, 2018)

Im a flippin basshead so  I am hopeful they bring the feels. 57mm drivers and 50mw amp. Its possible. Tried just about every bluetooth headphone and Nothing really brings the pain. Sony Xb950 is best bass energy transfer to head bt phones ive tried, but not close to jvc sz2000 or yamaha pro500.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Wiljen said:


> The thing to remember with any driver whether BA or dynamic is that efficiency is diametrically opposed to extension.   The only way to create a full range driver with good extension at both ends is to sacrifice efficiency.  The fact that the Astrotec shows really good efficiency numbers suggests its extension will be lacking.  The Campfire Comet on the other hand has an efficiency in the low 90s and an impedance of 48 Ohms as they were shooting for more extension at the expense of efficiency.


That seems to be the case but not always, it is how you implement it. Spiral ears put a horn infront of the BA(acapella horn) to get the low end done.

All BA are compression driver to be exact. Just miniaturized(even though compression driver working is very different, the sound waves are created in same pattern just with way better impulse on compression driver). Compression driver are narrow bands and mostly equipped with horn or semi band pass impedance to boost bass.

Warbler are 32ohm and way better than comet.
Final audio FI BA SS is 16ohm and 116dB but is from my point of view, more extended if not more tuned than comet is also a single BA due to Molex made proprietary driver with balanced air movement topology and non foam mechanical damping


----------



## Wiljen

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That seems to be the case but not always, it is how you implement it. Spiral ears put a horn infront of the BA(acapella horn) to get the low end done.
> 
> All BA are compression driver to be exact. Just miniaturized(even though compression driver working is very different, the sound waves are created in same pattern just with way better impulse on compression driver). Compression driver are narrow bands and mostly equipped with horn or semi band pass impedance to boost bass.
> 
> ...



Oh I agree that the higher end outfits find ways to modify the sound (The FA is vented), and warbler you only posted impedance which without knowing the sensitivity really does nothing to tell us how efficient the driver is.   Technically the Fostex planer driver is only  50 Ohm but nobody is going to argue it is an efficient driver.   You are comparing models that cost over $1k with a $15 Astrotec and a $200 Campfire.  I'd hope the difference in spend was buying you something.

The FA is also capable of being really harsh and wasn't a favorite for me.  The Warbler was nice though, I'll concede that much.

As for the statement, efficiency is always in direct opposition to extension - no way around it.  It takes more energy to move more air.


----------



## Slater (Jul 18, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Im a flippin basshead so  I am hopeful they bring the feels. 57mm drivers and 50mw amp. Its possible. Tried just about every bluetooth headphone and Nothing really brings the pain. Sony Xb950 is best bass energy transfer to head bt phones ive tried, but not close to jvc sz2000 or yamaha pro500.



A basshead level is a fine line to walk. Too much and it’s tubby and bloated. It’s gotta be done just right. Bluedio hasn’t done it yet (at least on the models I own). Maybe they’ll get it right on the T6.

One of my biggest beefs with Bluedio are the proprietary pads. You’re stuck with them, and the pads influence both the sound and the fit/comfort.

Some of the models seal too much, causing an uncomfortable suction effect. And the pads they almost always use are too small, being right at that annoying size of in-between an on-ear and an over-ear (causing hot spots).

They finally got some sense and went with a larger round pad starting with the T5. I’m also glad to see they went with a large oval pad on the T6, and I am curious to hear it’s impact on the sound (and whether the pads can be changed out or not).

I think the Bluedios would sound great with a velour pad, but there’s been no way to try one so far.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Wiljen said:


> Oh I agree that the higher end outfits find ways to modify the sound (The FA is vented), and warbler you only posted impedance which without knowing the sensitivity really does nothing to tell us how efficient the driver is.   Technically the Fostex planer driver is only  50 Ohm but nobody is going to argue it is an efficient driver.   You are comparing models that cost over $1k with a $15 Astrotec and a $200 Campfire.  I'd hope the difference in spend was buying you something.
> 
> The FA is also capable of being really harsh and wasn't a favorite for me.  The Warbler was nice though, I'll concede that much.
> 
> As for the statement, efficiency is always in direct opposition to extension - no way around it.  It takes more energy to move more air.


In layman terms, yes

In science terms, a complete no

The more power you feed to a driver, makes the excursion more, hence longer travels of diaphragm makes the small treble movement harder to achieve.
So its true, the less overall movement of driver makes the driver transient response and movement from one spectrum to another spectrum very smooth and efficient.

But old engineers in old era used different baffle construction, tuning technique to fight against it. Sometimes lowther did their driver with silver coil just to get the near same output(a little less) with more extension. Silver turns out to be stronger electromagnet but also a little heavy than aluminium coils.

Proprietary drivers, if no price barred scenario can make single BA very efficient and dynamic to the top of line level(hifiman re1000 and 2000)


----------



## Wiljen

dhruvmeena96 said:


> In layman terms, yes
> 
> In science terms, a complete no
> 
> ...



Your examples seem to lean toward increasing the upper end extension which to me isn't the biggest weakness of the BA.  How do you increase low end extension without venting, using the housing as a ported housing, or decreasing efficiency to move more air?


----------



## gemmoglock (Jul 18, 2018)

gemmoglock said:


> Hi everyone, I haven't gotten new KZs after my ATR and ZS3 so would like some advice what to get.
> 
> I'm looking for something with a moderate v signature not too strong, something like the ZS3. Would I be better off with the ZS6, ZS10 or ZSR? I read that ZS10 has tonality issues and ZSR has some sibilance/boomy bass comments so not sure what to get. I enjoy both the ATR and ZS3 so that's the kind of sound that works for me.
> 
> ...


Anyone can point me to whether to get the ZS6/ZS10/ZSR?

Coming from ZS3 and sometimes ATR. I appreciate a natural tonality and was worried how skewed tonality for the newer KZs are after reading https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/

Thanks!


----------



## Wiljen

gemmoglock said:


> Anyone can point me to whether to get the ZS6/10/R?
> 
> Coming from ZS3 and sometimes ATR.
> 
> Thanks!



Will really depend on what you are after.
Zsr is probably best compromise of the 3.
Zs10 is most resolving but big and fit may be an issue and a bit veiled and distant at times.
Zs6 is lively but shell leaves something to be desired for comfort and spike in the middle of treble range bothers some.

Have you considered the ES4?  To me, with you coming from the Zs3 that was renouned for its low end, the ES4 is a step toward a more balanced signature while still retaining that extra bass energy that made the Zs3 fun.


----------



## gemmoglock (Jul 18, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Will really depend on what you are after.
> Zsr is probably best compromise of the 3.
> Zs10 is most resolving but big and fit may be an issue and a bit veiled and distant at times.
> Zs6 is lively but shell leaves something to be desired for comfort and spike in the middle of treble range bothers some.
> ...


Thanks for replying - I just edited my post with context: I am looking for natural tonality that ATR/ZS3 kinda had, and was worried when ZS10 was criticised at https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/

I will check out ES4 - does it have incoherence like the similar ZST hardware? Actually I have heard both the B400 and Comet, which new KZ do you think strikes a similar balance in terms of relatively natural tonality, resolving just enough detail and sounding fun (there's a ZSA too?!)?

Thanks for the help! Shoutout to the DP-S1 too haha.


----------



## eaglearrow

gemmoglock said:


> Anyone can point me to whether to get the ZS6/ZS10/ZSR?
> 
> Coming from ZS3 and sometimes ATR. I appreciate a natural tonality and was worried how skewed tonality for the newer KZs are after reading https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/
> 
> Thanks!



Well, i wont be able to tell you what to go for as i don't really own the recent KZ's, but i can surely tell you what not to go for if you are looking for something similar to zs3. Of the 3, skip the ZS6. I have had the Ate and now own both Zs3 and Zs6 and the sound sig is totally dfferent. The treble..nope the 'Supertreble' is too much to take in compared to the Zs3. However the IEM by itself is tuned pretty good if not for those ear piercing treble.  If you can live with it, go for it. Else look somewhere else. I for one, i am not really a fan of Zs6.


----------



## Cronnie

Any recommendations for some of the smaller KZ IEMs for me to check out? Main reason being I'd like one I can use while in bed. Just looking for some model names which I can then further research on their sound profiles etc.


----------



## Wiljen

gemmoglock said:


> Thanks for replying - I just edited my post with context: I am looking for natural tonality that ATR/ZS3 kinda had, and was worried when ZS10 was criticised at https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/
> 
> I will check out ES4 - does it have incoherence like the similar ZST hardware? Actually I have heard both the B400 and Comet, which new KZ do you think strikes a similar balance in terms of relatively natural tonality, resolving just enough detail and sounding fun (there's a ZSA too?!)?
> 
> Thanks for the help! Shoutout to the DP-S1 too haha.




Wow, the B400 and Comet are such totally different animals it is hard to consider them in the same sentence.   Other than price point and the fact they fit in your ear, they have almost nothing in common.    I think based on what you bring up though on natural tonality, I'd give the Es4 a go.  I'll make the offer that if you'll cover shipping, I have a Zs6, 10, R, and ES4 that I could send you to audition.


----------



## Wiljen

Cronnie said:


> Any recommendations for some of the smaller KZ IEMs for me to check out? Main reason being I'd like one I can use while in bed. Just looking for some model names which I can then further research on their sound profiles etc.



ED15 comes to mind


----------



## gemmoglock

Wiljen said:


> Wow, the B400 and Comet are such totally different animals it is hard to consider them in the same sentence.   Other than price point and the fact they fit in your ear, they have almost nothing in common.    I think based on what you bring up though on natural tonality, I'd give the Es4 a go.  I'll make the offer that if you'll cover shipping, I have a Zs6, 10, R, and ES4 that I could send you to audition.



Thanks for the gesture! Unfortunately I'm a little far so shipping even if affordable is a bit risky haha. Yes it's true I only heard the Comet briefly. Let's focus on the B400 then, I appreciated the coherence and moderate stage but most importantly a decent tonality that works across classical to jazz, EDM, rock and more. ZS3 and ATR aren't perfect but they just sounded 'agreeable' to me even when listening to more expensive gear.

Other than the ES4 do you think any others could be fun without skewing the tonality? I admit I'm hoping you'll say the 6/10/R because I want to try a KZ with more drivers, but at the same time I recognise that the tuning gets only more important when you have more drivers in there.

Cheers!


----------



## Wiljen (Jul 18, 2018)

Dupe


----------



## Wiljen

gemmoglock said:


> Thanks for the gesture! Unfortunately I'm a little far so shipping even if affordable is a bit risky haha. Yes it's true I only heard the Comet briefly. Let's focus on the B400 then, I appreciated the coherence and moderate stage but most importantly a decent tonality that works across classical to jazz, EDM, rock and more. ZS3 and ATR aren't perfect but they just sounded 'agreeable' to me even when listening to more expensive gear.
> 
> Other than the ES4 do you think any others could be fun without skewing the tonality? I admit I'm hoping you'll say the 6/10/R because I want to try a KZ with more drivers, but at the same time I recognise that the tuning gets only more important when you have more drivers in there.
> 
> Cheers!



I would look at the ZsR, ES4, and ED16 as the most likely to fit what you are after.  The ED16 probably comes closest to the b400 of the three as it is the most detailed.  It will need a bit of EQ to be as flat as the b400 but the other two have way more of a V than the b400.  

The ES4 can be thought of as a shallow V while the ZsR is a bit deeper.   The biggest difference is (to my ear) the ES4 has some extra energy at both ends of the V but doesn't scoop the mids.  The Zsr in contrast creates the elevation in the ends of the V by recessing the mids pretty considerably.


----------



## gemmoglock

Wiljen said:


> I would look at the ZsR, ES4, and ED16 as the most likely to fit what you are after.  The ED16 probably comes closest to the b400 of the three as it is the most detailed.  It will need a bit of EQ to be as flat as the b400 but the other two have way more of a V than the b400.
> 
> The ES4 can be thought of as a shallow V while the ZsR is a bit deeper.   The biggest difference is (to my ear) the ES4 has some extra energy at both ends of the V but doesn't scoop the mids.  The Zsr in contrast creates the elevation in the ends of the V by recessing the mids pretty considerably.



Wow just how many KZ new models have come out?! The ED16 appears like a good choice though the shape and default cable is a small turnoff. Thanks for the suggestion, will check it out further


----------



## ViperScull

CardigdanWalk said:


> Also decided to buy the BS-6 Bluetooth speaker as someone here mentioned it wasn’t too bad and was looking to try out a Bluetooth speaker. No idea if that supports AAC but fingers crossed!
> 
> This thread is not good for my wallet!


I watched the review and the sound was impressive for the price.



Zlivan said:


> I'm still trying to resist the urge to order those t6
> Knowing Bluedio, they are probably way too bassy, but the price is tempting. Also, ANC probably doesn't work well, but that doesn't concern me too much.


Same here. I'm about to click on the pay button. I found out that you can't control the volumen with the set. You gotta do it with the player.



Slater said:


> As far as Bluedio’s ANC, it is very minimal. Bose has it pretty much perfected. Bluedio is slowly improving. Integrity T4S, they only used a single mic. It cuts more of the environmental noise, but also cuts a large portion of the low end frequency. The T5, T6, and the T energy uses a dual mic design and a different ANC algorithm. I haven’t heard the one on the T5 or T6 yet, but I can say that the T energy IEM is improved vs the T4S. It has virtually no detectable effect on the music (in my testing), but it is less effective on the environmental noise itself than the previous iteration. If I had my choice between 1) more impact on the music but more cutdown of the environment vs 2) less impact on the music but less cutdown of the environment, I’d take #2.


T5's ANC is pure garbage. Not because it doesn't cancel the noise but because the quality of the sound is worsened dramatically. If I buy the T6,which the reviews say it suffers from the same effect, is because it isolates rather well without ANC and the quality is really good for the price. But I don't plan on using ANC.


----------



## neo_styles

gemmoglock said:


> Wow just how many KZ new models have come out?! The ED16 appears like a good choice though the shape and default cable is a small turnoff. Thanks for the suggestion, will check it out further


Shape on the ED16 is fine and it's pretty close to wear-in-bed small, but you have to lay down just right to make it work. While the ZS10 might have the upper hand in terms of bass extension, the ES4 kinda beats it out in terms of bass quality, and the ED16 finds a happy middle for me.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

ViperScull said:


> I watched the review and the sound was impressive for the price.
> 
> 
> Same here. I'm about to click on the pay button. I found out that you can't control the volumen with the set. You gotta do it with the player.
> ...



I was looking for a review of the bs-6 but couldn’t find one, could you share please!

Also sounds like we are in similar shoes, don’t really intended to use the ANC function, but can’t argue with a $30 Bluetooth aac headphones!


----------



## Makahl

Has anyone else gotten the new KZ Bluetooth module?

I've been using the previous model for gym, but I'd like more power to drive ZS3/ZST/ES4 and maybe watching videos on youtube without delay would be great. So is that an upgrade for that? I was considering to upgrade it for FiiO's or Xiaomi's receiver instead but the KZ's price and just for gym propose looks a better deal.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Wiljen said:


> Your examples seem to lean toward increasing the upper end extension which to me isn't the biggest weakness of the BA.  How do you increase low end extension without venting, using the housing as a ported housing, or decreasing efficiency to move more air?


Make it a horn load, increase the internal back cavity of BA(something like CI enclosure with ED system).

There are many ways and I can't write it.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Makahl said:


> Has anyone else gotten the new KZ Bluetooth module?
> 
> I've been using the previous model for gym, but I'd like more power to drive ZS3/ZST/ES4 and maybe watching videos on youtube without delay would be great. So is that an upgrade for that? I was considering to upgrade it for FiiO's or Xiaomi's receiver instead but the KZ's price and just for gym propose looks a better deal.



I have tried the newest one, but have been through the previous KZ and the TRN ones and while they were functional felt like was missing something compared to wired. Ended up buying the EarStudio ES100 and haven’t looked back!


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Has anyone else gotten the new KZ Bluetooth module?
> 
> I've been using the previous model for gym, but I'd like more power to drive ZS3/ZST/ES4 and maybe watching videos on youtube without delay would be great. So is that an upgrade for that? I was considering to upgrade it for FiiO's or Xiaomi's receiver instead but the KZ's price and just for gym propose looks a better deal.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2314#post-14365086

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2314#post-14364993


----------



## ViperScull

CardigdanWalk said:


> I was looking for a review of the bs-6 but couldn’t find one, could you share please!
> 
> Also sounds like we are in similar shoes, don’t really intended to use the ANC function, but can’t argue with a $30 Bluetooth aac headphones!


Sure, but it's in Spanish.


----------



## Cronnie

Wiljen said:


> ED15 comes to mind



Thank you, certainly one I'm considering.

Any recommendations for one of the models with the replaceable cable/over the ear style that has a small profile?


----------



## Zlivan

ViperScull said:


> I found out that you can't control the volumen with the set. You gotta do it with the player.


Seriously? Surely that can't be true


----------



## Wiljen

Cronnie said:


> Thank you, certainly one I'm considering.
> 
> Any recommendations for one of the models with the replaceable cable/over the ear style that has a small profile?



I'm not sure any of those are small enough that I would consider them comfortable for sleeping in.   I'll let others who have more experience than I chime in on that as I rarely if ever sleep in any of mine.


----------



## ViperScull (Jul 18, 2018)

Zlivan said:


> Seriously? Surely that can't be true


I wouldn't lie about something that serious!!
Same guy that reviewed the bs-6 speaker reviewed the t6 and commented it. I asked in the comment section specifically about it and he confirmed it.
It is indeed frustrating


----------



## Dickymint

Today heralded the arrival of my new TRN V80 headphones and first impressions are not very good! Bass is light, though the addition of foam buds has helped, bit too forward in the mids for me with a restricted sound stage, very at eyeball level and just around the temple area. Cannot quite put my finger on it yet but they sound off for some reason and they are sibilant, at least until I added the foam tips! Once they have had a bit of a run in, they might sound different, we wait with baited breath...


----------



## nxnje

Then guys, my holiday are 99% canceled due to flight problems and something like that, but i'm not here to tell this.
That was just a little words to say that i have now a little bit more in my bucket to spend on a new iem.
In these months i posted here to have some info about the zsr and so on

I watched many reviews about many headphones and then i came on a decision: i wanted to buy a pair of KZ ZSA.
Then i decided to spend a little bit more as i won't go on holidays but i wanna gift myself with a little gem.

I'm coming from a pair of MEMT X5, which i love and which served me well since December 2017 without any problems (except the driver flex which forced me to use the foam tips: i actually love them), but i feel now i want to have a better pair of headphones.
What digs in me with my memt is their bass, he digs so deep in my ear canal and i can feel the rumble that i really like.
The problem is that the V shape is really accentuated, so even if treble got microdetails, soundstage and mids are a bit limited: soundstage is average, i would say a bit poor, and mids are recessed, and don't sound airy, so female vocals don't sound crisp but a bit too warm.

i wanna anticipate: i have small ears and wearing my old KZ ZS3 have been a real pain, i just couldn't stand them more than 30 mins. I listen to EDM tracks and i even produce my own music (hybrid trap, bigroom house, psytrance and so on)

I was watching online and between all the headphones i know in chi-fi i had some eye shocks:
- KZ ZS6 --> shape is big, people say they are phenomenal but really hard to find a good position for that moreover if you have small ears.. so i refused to buy them as i want a comfortable IEM.
- REVONEXT QT2 --> same shape as the ZS6, no piercing treble like the ZS6, better sounding overall, the problem is always the shape and they even cost like 15 euros more... refused these
- LKER i8 --> friend who has them said the upper bass bleeds into the mids ruining the sound image, and said they are a bit sibilant on the highs. Then the nozzle seems really short and i'm afraid the shell will touch my ear creating me pain.. refused
- **** 6in1 --> heard good things about these, design is crap but heard they sound very well and the drivers are tuned properly.
- TIN AUDIO t2 --> MANY good reviews, i like them a lot, their design is so elegant, they can be worn with the cable down or around the ear. Reviews say they sound really really airy and spacious and that the sound signature has a bright tone. I'm just a little afraid about the bass, i like bass and i like deep bass as i listen so much dubstep and hybrid trap, hardstyle and psytrance, but i really like sometimes putting vocal tracks from sia, florence, many tracks from red hot chili peppers, old tracks from queen, police and so on.

Then i'm now really confused. One part of my brain says "HEY, SAVE YOUR MONEY, BUY THE ZSA".
The other part: "cmon, u really like the TINAUDIO T2, BUY THEM AND DON'T THINK IT TWICE".

I'm asking for your help, as i really want a new headphone to pair with my BENJIE S5/AGPTEK m20, and wanna try a serious upgrade from my memt x5 which i love but which make me a little bit disappointed on the points i've just described above.

Hoping someone can give me some good news about the tin audio t2 and about how they compare with other choices, 
I thank you in advance. Will wait for your answers.
YOU CAN BE MY HEROES GUYS


----------



## Slater (Jul 18, 2018)

nxnje said:


> - TIN AUDIO t2 --> MANY good reviews, i like them a lot, their design is so elegant, they can be worn with the cable down or around the ear. Reviews say they sound really really airy and spacious and that the sound signature has a bright tone. I'm just a little afraid about the bass, i like bass and i like deep bass as i listen so much dubstep and hybrid trap, hardstyle and psytrance, but i really like sometimes putting vocal tracks from sia, florence, many tracks from red hot chili peppers, old tracks from queen, police and so on.
> 
> Then i'm now really confused. One part of my brain says "HEY, SAVE YOUR MONEY, BUY THE ZSA".
> The other part: "cmon, u really like the TINAUDIO T2, BUY THEM AND DON'T THINK IT TWICE".
> ...



The T2 aren't too bright IMO. They are perfectly balanced.

The issue with the T2 is that it is a little too neutral/bass-shy for the genres you listed (which I listen to basically the same genres). However, this is easily solvable by removing the blue wax under the nozzle screen. Then you'll have more bass. And if that's not enough, you can get even more by adding a small piece of micropore tape to the front vent.


----------



## Zlivan

Do you think all T2s have wax inside the nozzle as some kind of bass control, by design?

Now I feel tempted to mess with it, even though I find the bass just right


----------



## Zerohour88

Dickymint said:


> Today heralded the arrival of my new TRN V80 headphones and first impressions are not very good! Bass is light, though the addition of foam buds has helped, bit too forward in the mids for me with a restricted sound stage, very at eyeball level and just around the temple area. Cannot quite put my finger on it yet but they sound off for some reason and they are sibilant, at least until I added the foam tips! Once they have had a bit of a run in, they might sound different, we wait with baited breath...



care to share your impressions on either of the chi-fi thread? since this is the KZ thread, it might get lost in the mix. A couple of users also received their V80, you can compare notes with them here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-info-thread-portable-headphones-and-iems.820747/


----------



## Slater (Jul 18, 2018)

Zlivan said:


> Do you think all T2s have wax inside the nozzle as some kind of bass control, by design?
> 
> Now I feel tempted to mess with it, even though I find the bass just right



It's not wax; I just call it that. It's obviously a dampening material of some sort. I would love to know what it is made of exactly. It's very odd whatever it is. Like a blue waxy silicone spongy material that crumbles apart when disturbed, but is kind of sticky and clumps together at the same time. Must be alien in origin lol




As far as messing with it, if you are OK with the sub bass as it is stock I would leave it alone. Once you remove the blue material, there is no going back.

The T2 is unique, in that there are very few neutral IEMs in its same price range with the same features, accessories, and build quality.

I have 3 pairs of T2, and the pair I removed the material from was ready for the garbage, so I had nothing to lose. You could do add the same ~5dB sub bass with EQ just as easily, without making irreversible changes to the T2.

I actually used that pair with the intent of it being a sacrifice - to learn how to disassemble the IEM and see how it was made and to evaluate it for driver swaps or tuning modifications to the front and rear vents. That was when I stumbled upon the blue "wax", and removing it actually fixed my problem. That's when I noticed the impact it had on the sub bass.

If I was in the shoes of someone who only owned 1 pair, I would personally wait to see what Tin Audio does with the T2 Pro and T3 (which are due out any day now). Tin Audio is well aware of the T2's sub bass shortcomings, and have come right out and said the T2 Pro will address this (or maybe it's called the T2 Pro Bass, I don't remember).


----------



## HungryPanda

I love the Tin Audio T2 it is so neutral but not a bass heavy iem, the **** 6in1 on the other hand has really good bass, mids and highs. I have been using them quite a bit recently


----------



## neo_styles

My ZS6 just arrived and were immediately unboxed. They definitely feel like the most sturdy of all of my KZ IEMs. Cord is positively garbage and went right back into the box and I used my OKCSC cable instead. Plugged everything into my Schiit Magni 3 and...WHAT THE EFF...it sounded horrible. Like poor connection horrible (where everything's completely out of phase and waaaay too airy). Quite confused, I took at look at all my connections...and realized the OKCSC's a balanced cable. After feeling very dumb, I swapped the cable out for the KZ silver and plugged everything back in.

_Much better._ Well, relatively speaking. Everything was back in phase, so that's a plus, but I can immediately pick up on the sonic notes mentioned earlier in this thread. The presence region is significantly boosted, almost to the point of discomfort. If anything, though, I'd say it's really source-dependent. I absolutely wouldn't call them forgiving if the recording is sub-par and they do reveal when producers get a little aggressive with the compressor. Though they do tame down via EQ (verified by Neutralizer), I don't have that same capability at the desktop because I'm set up for bit-perfect playback. Hopefully it's just something my ears can adapt to, but this is definitely the brightest pair I own now.

Staging and imaging, however...well, I get it. I wouldn't call it the _widest_ stage, but it's certainly the most localizable and least congested of the bunch. During some of the left/right panning effects on multiple tracks, I could finally get a feel of all the space in between left, center, and right. A++ in terms of imaging and I think that's going to be what keeps a niche carved out in my collection for the ZS6.

I also ordered a pair of ZSA from GB for about 17 USD shipped to send to my son since he's starting to get an interest in better sound quality. Might have to trade with him at some point and get some listening notes on them.

_*No audio equipment was harmed during the making of this post*_


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> The T2 aren't too bright IMO. They are perfectly balanced.
> 
> The issue with the T2 is that it is a little too neutral/bass-shy for the genres you listed (which I listen to basically the same genres). However, this is easily solvable by removing the blue wax under the nozzle screen. Then you'll have more bass. And if that's not enough, you can get even more by adding a small piece of micropore tape to the front vent.



Then slater you're always helpful and you know everytime, the right answer eheh

You can understand me so if you, listen to the same genres.
So you would wait if you were me for new tin audio headphones? 
Anyway, i've heard the bass problem could be solved by closing the front vent with some patafix/mounting putty but i didn't understand if then i will hear, a "basshead like" bass.
Do you feel good with themthe? Have you tried sealing the front vent?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

So for all those thinking of pulling the trigger on any Bluedio things, it seems patience is a virtue

1) they have added a $5 off coupon to the store, on $5 spend. So even more to save! 

2) the limited units of stock is all bulls**t, they said they only had 5,000 t6 up for grabs, so I woke up early to place my order ... but they have forgotten that AliExpress tells you how many orders have been placed for a product. At the start of the sale it was less that 3,000 ... and now we are about to bit 10,000!

So do feel a little pissed off, if I waited, I would have saved $5 off my order. A little tempted to complain or maybe even cancel my order / reorder, but have heard horror stories about refunds from AliExpress!

Either way , *if you haven’t ordered you’ve got 1h45m to get a free $5 coupon and save even more!*


----------



## audionab

CardigdanWalk said:


> So for all those thinking of pulling the trigger on any Bluedio things, it seems patience is a virtue
> 
> 1) they have added a $5 off coupon to the store, on $5 spend. So even more to save!
> 
> ...


oh ya aliexpress refund system is horrible it took 16 days to get my refund


----------



## maxxevv

CardigdanWalk said:


> So for all those thinking of pulling the trigger on any Bluedio things, it seems patience is a virtue
> 
> 1) they have added a $5 off coupon to the store, on $5 spend. So even more to save!
> 
> ...



That's a pretty amazing deal. Unless the headphone is total crap, at US$28 (after the US$5 coupon discount which I checked, does work) its a steal. Sell it on your local craiglist for practically no loss even if you don't like it eventually. 



audionab said:


> oh ya aliexpress refund system is horrible it took 16 days to get my refund



Its dependent on you membership level. A 'platinum' and above member will get their refund resolved typically within 3~5 days.


----------



## audionab

maxxevv said:


> Its dependent on you membership level. A 'platinum' and above member will get their refund resolved typically within 3~5 days.


i have silver level membership which now makes sense lol


----------



## nxnje

maxxevv said:


> That's a pretty amazing deal. Unless the headphone is total crap, at US$28 (after the US$5 coupon discount which I checked, does work) its a steal. Sell it on your local craiglist for practically no loss even if you don't like it eventually.
> 
> 
> 
> Its dependent on you membership level. A 'platinum' and above member will get their refund resolved typically within 3~5 days.



I'm a gold member on aliexpress and i've never faced issues with refundsthe. They were always, processed in 4-5 days...


----------



## scottySK

Dickymint said:


> Today heralded the arrival of my new TRN V80 headphones and first impressions are not very good! Bass is light, though the addition of foam buds has helped, bit too forward in the mids for me with a restricted sound stage, very at eyeball level and just around the temple area. Cannot quite put my finger on it yet but they sound off for some reason and they are sibilant, at least until I added the foam tips! Once they have had a bit of a run in, they might sound different, we wait with baited breath...



I use foam tips with mine and find there is plenty of bass, and far less sibilance than my es3. I agree that the soundstage is not amazing, hoping burn in might help but Im doubtful


----------



## Dickymint

nxnje said:


> Then guys, my holiday are 99% canceled due to flight problems and something like that, but i'm not here to tell this.
> That was just a little words to say that i have now a little bit more in my bucket to spend on a new iem.
> In these months i posted here to have some info about the zsr and so on
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about the holiday, we all need a break, mostly from the wife... Anyway, I have the ZSA and personally I think they are one of the better KZ IEM's, if you want good bass, then you need to play with the tips, good foam units create a wonderful deep powerful bass that isn't over blown but you need to experiment. I have the ZS6 and it's a good IEM but a bit bulky, just got an ZS3, and it is very comfy, lacks a bit in information retrieval but overall quite good, not IMHO better than the ZSA. I have the ZS10, big and bulky but good when you get it run in and used to it. Hope that helps.


----------



## nxnje

Dickymint said:


> Sorry to hear about the holiday, we all need a break, mostly from the wife... Anyway, I have the ZSA and personally I think they are one of the better KZ IEM's, if you want good bass, then you need to play with the tips, good foam units create a wonderful deep powerful bass that isn't over blown but you need to experiment. I have the ZS6 and it's a good IEM but a bit bulky, just got an ZS3, and it is very comfy, lacks a bit in information retrieval but overall quite good, not IMHO better than the ZSA. I have the ZS10, big and bulky but good when you get it run in and used to it. Hope that helps.



How would you, compare the zsa with the zs6?
So i can make a comparison triangle with zsa and zs6 and then zs6 with tin audio t2
How is the soundstage on the zsa?


----------



## Dickymint

nxnje said:


> How would you, compare the zsa with the zs6?
> So i can make a comparison triangle with zsa and zs6 and then zs6 with tin audio t2
> How is the soundstage on the zsa?


For me the ZSA is just about spot on for everything. I find the ZS6 slightly harsh, I have most of the Trinity IEM's and I prefer the ZS6 to nearly all of them, bar the 4 driver device. Soundstage on the ZS6 is quite good, the detailing is good but slightly aggressive for me, the ZSA? Well last week I spent several hours with the ZSA plugged into my X7 while doing some turntable repair work and to be honest, I forgot I was wearing the ZSA, the soundstage is, not enormous but wide and detailed, the depth of reality is brilliant and the one thing I find difficult to get in some headphones of all types, is emotion, the ZSA has it in bucket loads! The soundstage is a wrap around feeling, not just eyeballs and temples but spreading out past the ears and front and centre when it is supposed to be, I am really impressed with this small device. I have a large collection of headphones, some still with me and a big bundle that have gone through my hands but the little ZSA, when run in, impresses me for now! It's not the best out there but value for money? King of the hill at the moment! IMHO!


----------



## dhruvmeena96

http://s.aliexpress.com/JnAbYzu2?

The KZ ZS6v3

4BA+1DD 

LoL


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Then slater you're always helpful and you know everytime, the right answer eheh
> 
> You can understand me so if you, listen to the same genres.
> So you would wait if you were me for new tin audio headphones?
> ...



T2 is not the best for basshead levels. It’s like trying to tow a boat with a Corvette - you could do it because it has the power, but a truck is really w
the best too. Plus the putty creates new problems.

So if you don’t want to wait to see what Tin Audio comes up with, there are other IEMs that are basshead level ready-to-go right out of the box.

Here’s a few I’ve heard, in no particular order:

Boarseman KR49
i-Into i8
ZhiYin Z5000
KZ ED15

The fit of the i8 sucked for me, but my basshead coworker likes them. The Z5000 has MMCX removable cables. My favorites out of those are the ED15 and the Boarseman.

Others may chime in with some input. I know @loomisjohnson has heard the Boarseman, and @B9Scrambler has a few of these (pretty sure he’s a closet basshead like me lol)


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> T2 is not the best for basshead levels. It’s like trying to tow a boat with a Corvette - you could do it because it has the power, but a truck is really w
> the best too. Plus the putty creates new problems.
> 
> So if you don’t want to wait to see what Tin Audio comes up with, there are other IEMs that are basshead level ready-to-go right out of the box.
> ...


the boarseman kr49 is a very good bassy phone for the price; likewise the senzer h1. i'd also check out the update of the memt x5, which is the x9.


----------



## eaglearrow

Bought the ED16 for $13 with $4 ali coupon.. Hope its a good buy. Are there any reviews for these to which, anyone can point me out to?


----------



## Wiljen

dhruvmeena96 said:


> http://s.aliexpress.com/JnAbYzu2?
> 
> The KZ ZS6v3
> 
> ...


 

I love it -  One of the graphics reads and I quote
"1DD + 4BA Hybrid Drive Unit"
"Arrive to 8 drivers, providing you amazing sound quality"

So I'm guessing it has 10, but only 8 of them work.  That might finally be truth in advertising by KZ Quality control division.


----------



## randomnin

Haven't been following the Chi-Fi scene for a while, looked up what's new on the cheap end recently and it looks like the same old same old with more drivers. Though the ZS10 has very good looks, imho. The question I want to ask is whether KZ are planning on dropping the dynamic drivers (and the accompanying compensating holes on the chassis) and going full BA any time soon? Or is that still the realm of higher price categories?


----------



## B9Scrambler

randomnin said:


> Haven't been following the Chi-Fi scene for a while, looked up what's new on the cheap end recently and it looks like the same old same old with more drivers. Though the ZS10 has very good looks, imho. *The question I want to ask is whether KZ are planning on dropping the dynamic drivers (and the accompanying compensating holes on the chassis) and going full BA any time soon*? Or is that still the realm of higher price categories?



Pssst: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2305#post-14357330


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Agree


Slater said:


> T2 is not the best for basshead levels. It’s like trying to tow a boat with a Corvette - you could do it because it has the power, but a truck is really w
> the best too. Plus the putty creates new problems.
> 
> So if you don’t want to wait to see what Tin Audio comes up with, there are other IEMs that are basshead level ready-to-go right out of the box.
> ...


----------



## neo_styles

Decided to take the ZS6 out for today's commute and was surprised at how well they isolate given the rear vents. It's not quite as rejecting of outside noise as the ES4, ED16, and ZS10, but it's certainly leagues better than, say, an iSine 10. I can also see why people have had complaints about fitment, but have been able to achieve a good seal without discomfort. In my ears, they're actually a bit more comfy than the ZS10 or ED16, so kudos to that.

Also realized the nozzle on the stock starline tips is loooooong, so I took my shot at trimming some of it down and, while the opening isn't flush with the earpiece nozzle, it's somewhat helped with some of the sharp highs. They're still there, but at least it's more tolerable.



Spoiler: Star(line) Shot











And I really like this combo of the Shanling M0 and ZS6. High gain isn't at all necessity, but the ZS6 will definitely take it without breaking up.


----------



## Tunaa

Hey i have realized that some people considering about getting ES4 let me share my experiences with u guys. Actually this is my first KZ earphones, before that i was using xiaomi hybrid pro hd and i can say the bass on the ES4s are way better than the Mi pro HDs. But I'll be honest, sound is not clear and soundstage is narrower compare to HDs. So i did not like them but for the price you are getting really good earphones especially if you like bass.


----------



## boost3d

Every time this thread pops up I get tempted to try a KZ. Would the ED16 be a nice complement to Nicehck Bros (and to lesser extent Adax HT06)? I got both last week and already like them. Music preference is classic rock and just getting into blues rock.


----------



## TheVortex

boost3d said:


> Every time this thread pops up I get tempted to try a KZ. Would the ED16 be a nice complement to Nicehck Bros (and to lesser extent Adax HT06)? I got both last week and already like them. Music preference is classic rock and just getting into blues rock.



The ED16 is more of a balanced sound signature and I really like mine. The Bro's are more V shaped as I own the twin from another store. I really like my ED16 and is my favourite with the Revonext QT2 as a runner up.


----------



## neo_styles

boost3d said:


> Every time this thread pops up I get tempted to try a KZ. Would the ED16 be a nice complement to Nicehck Bros (and to lesser extent Adax HT06)? I got both last week and already like them. Music preference is classic rock and just getting into blues rock.


ED16 also gets my seal of approval. Probably the most coherent and least fussy (with fit) pair of KZ that I own.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheVortex said:


> The ED16 is more of a balanced sound signature and I really like mine. The Bro's are more V shaped as I own the twin from another store. I really like my ED16 and is my favourite with the Revonext QT2 as a runner up.





neo_styles said:


> ED16 also gets my seal of approval. Probably the most coherent and least fussy (with fit) pair of KZ that I own.



I agree with all of the above.


----------



## paramoreds

Hi all,

I have a Xiaomi Pro HD (triple driver) and now i looking for the kz earphones, in particular the kz SE4 and the ED16.I would like to know which is better? for your reference i enjoy too much the treble and mids of the xiaomis, but in some cases lacks in the low frequency. So which is better for me? i want a lot of detail and very punchy bass.

Thanks in advance


----------



## mbwilson111

paramoreds said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a Xiaomi Pro HD (triple driver) and now i looking for the kz earphones, in particular the kz SE4 and the ED16.I would like to know which is better? for your reference i enjoy too much the treble and mids of the xiaomis, but in some cases lacks in the low frequency. So which is better for me? i want a lot of detail and very punchy bass.
> 
> Thanks in advance



ED16.  If you don't like the cable, you can change it.


----------



## Slater

paramoreds said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a Xiaomi Pro HD (triple driver) and now i looking for the kz earphones, in particular the kz SE4 and the ED16.I would like to know which is better? for your reference i enjoy too much the treble and mids of the xiaomis, but in some cases lacks in the low frequency. So which is better for me? i want a lot of detail and very punchy bass.
> 
> Thanks in advance



If you like everything about the Xiaomi Pro HD except the bass, you can easily add more bass just by adding a small piece of tape to the front vent by the nozzle. It costs nothing, and takes 5 seconds.


----------



## paramoreds

Slater said:


> If you like everything about the Xiaomi Pro HD except the bass, you can easily add more bass just by adding a small piece of tape to the front vent by the nozzle. It costs nothing, and takes 5 seconds.



Yes i tried, but is not that good enough. For this reason i want another earphone.


----------



## paramoreds

mbwilson111 said:


> ED16.  If you don't like the cable, you can change it.


 
Thanks, what is wrong with the cable? Is not the same as the SE4?


----------



## mbwilson111

paramoreds said:


> Thanks, what is wrong with the cable? Is not the same as the SE4?



Many of the newer KZs like the ZS10, ZSA and ES4 have a fairly nice copper colored braided cable.   For some reason the ED16 has an older rubbery type cable that I personally had problems with ... partly because I have long hair and it just would not lie nicely behind my ear...

The ED16 has become one of my favorite iems.  Very comfortable to me and sounds great.


----------



## Slater

paramoreds said:


> Yes i tried, but is not that good enough. For this reason i want another earphone.



That’s cool. Just thought I’d throw it out there in case you weren’t aware of the mod.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

On the topic of cables, this is the first time I’ve seen one of these:

USB Type C to KZ 0.75mm connector:
http://s.aliexpress.com/URbaMVRR

Guessing it’s useful for those with newer phones that have USB type C, I wonder if we’ll be seeing an Apple lightning one in the future!


----------



## Slater (Jul 19, 2018)

CardigdanWalk said:


> On the topic of cables, this is the first time I’ve seen one of these:
> 
> USB Type C to KZ 0.75mm connector:
> http://s.aliexpress.com/URbaMVRR
> ...



I hope so, but doubtful. Most companies don’t want to pay Apple their exorbitant licensing fees.

It’s easy to make your own Lightning version though, if you’re handy with a soldering iron.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Could anyone give me a run down on these ES4 vs ED16 vs ZSA vs ZS6 ? Differences?  which is best all rounder? and What Tips are recommended ?

Thanks.


----------



## neo_styles

MidNighTempest said:


> Could anyone give me a run down on these ES4 vs ED16 vs ZSA vs ZS6 ? Differences?  which is best all rounder? and What Tips are recommended ?
> 
> Thanks.


Please don't take this the wrong way, but this was something that's already been discussed today. Please comb through so we're not repeating the same notes across multiple pages.


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but this was something that's already been discussed today. Please comb through so we're not repeating the same notes across multiple pages.





MidNighTempest said:


> Could anyone give me a run down on these ES4 vs ED16 vs ZSA vs ZS6 ? Differences?  which is best all rounder? and What Tips are recommended ?
> 
> Thanks.



The search function really works quite well.  Tips always depend on the user, but generally the stock Stalines works well will the models that include them


----------



## Slater (Jul 19, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but this was something that's already been discussed today. Please comb through so we're not repeating the same notes across multiple pages.



Not just today, but every day for weeks.

The search is very easy to use. You can set it to it just searches this specific thread, and by a date range (I would do since June 1st). That way, it allows you to zero in on super specific information in minimal time.

As far as tips, it’s different for everyone. Most of us have to try different tips and find which fits and/or sounds the best. What is perfect for me could be the total opposite for the next 5 people.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> T2 is not the best for basshead levels. It’s like trying to tow a boat with a Corvette - you could do it because it has the power, but a truck is really w
> the best too. Plus the putty creates new problems.
> 
> So if you don’t want to wait to see what Tin Audio comes up with, there are other IEMs that are basshead level ready-to-go right out of the box.
> ...



Wait wait wait, i already tried basshead headphones.
The problem is that they all share the same horrible thing --> recessed mids
I know i can't have JH Layla sound at 30 euros, but i just need a good headphone that does well in the mids with a good soundstage and can dig down into the sub-bass and bass.
As far as i understood, t2 is not able to do that without creating other problems or ruining some other frequencies, so i think i'm gonna ask @B9Scrambler how does it feel with the zsa and how could he compare in edm tracks with the tin audio t2 (i know b9scrambler has a website where he reviews the headphones and i even saw he reviewed both the t2 and zsa).

So @B9Scrambler how would you compare the tin audio t2 with the zsa?
What would u tip me as far as you tried both of them?
For now, i'm trusting slater for his huge experience, but another direct opinion is welcome if u wanna help me!


----------



## Slater (Jul 19, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Wait wait wait, i already tried basshead headphones.
> The problem is that they all share the same horrible thing --> recessed mids
> I know i can't have JH Layla sound at 30 euros, but i just need a good headphone that does well in the mids with a good soundstage and can dig down into the sub-bass and bass.
> As far as i understood, t2 is not able to do that without creating other problems or ruining some other frequencies, so i think i'm gonna ask @B9Scrambler how does it feel with the zsa and how could he compare in edm tracks with the tin audio t2 (i know b9scrambler has a website where he reviews the headphones and i even saw he reviewed both the t2 and zsa).
> ...



I see.

Which one of these sounds like what you're shooting for:

1. Neutral/flat tuning, but with sub bass that has deep *extension.* I.e. no sub bass roll off.
2. A basshead tune (dominant sub-bass/bass), but with forward mids. Like W shaped.
3. A basshead tune (dominant sub-bass/bass), but with mids and treble flat (ie no recessed mids)? Like L shaped.


----------



## jthew

Is the ZSR considered v-shaped?  U-shaped?

Long thread......


----------



## Slater (Jul 19, 2018)

And while on this U vs V topic, I have been meaning to clarify this for a while.

It dawned on me the other day that what I have always thought of as the different between V and U may not be what others view it as.

@Otto Motor brought up this a while ago, about the ambiguity of describing tuning with letters and how the Germans don't do it (they use the concept of bathtub instead of U I think).

Anyways, here's 2 very crappily drawn versions of how the relationship between V and U could be interpreted. I say crappy because I didn't draw the shape of the letters right (ie the frequency range extension of the U in #1 is narrower and I didn't mean to do that). Just ignore that for a minute.

#1 the U is basically INSIDE of the V (ie the curve at the bottom of the letter). In this version, theoretically the V has more frequencies "scooped out" and missing vs the U. The U would have LESS recessed midrange, and a little more upper bass through lower treble frequencies "filled in". In this example you could say that the U is "closer to neutral" when compared to V.


​
#2 is the opposite - the V is INSIDE of the U. In this version, the U has more frequencies "scooped out" and missing vs the V. So it is the V shape that would have more upper bass through lower treble frequencies "filled in". In this example you could say that the V is "closer to neutral" when compared to U.

​
So when you think of U or V shaped, which one do you think of?


----------



## paramoreds

Which is better for high and bass, ed16 or zs10?


----------



## Voxis9292

paramoreds said:


> Which is better for high and bass, ed16 or zs10?



If you look at the reviews at "the phonograph" the ZS10 have a better rating in sound (bass,mids & highs).
But there is still the question how will they fit in your ears? If you have smaller ears pick the ED16 otherwise the ZS10.
Maybe you can order both and sell one of them.


----------



## Qualcheduno

Slater said:


> And while on this U vs V topic, I have been meaning to clarify this for a while.
> 
> It dawned on me the other day that what I have always thought of as the different between V and U may not be what others view it as.
> 
> ...


To me U shaped is something similar to a little recession in the mids but with a very low Q factor, while V shaped is a stronger recession with a higher Q factor.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

The above one most of the time.

The outer set of V and U is extreme shape.

I would say extreme V or U shape

If I am saying u or v shape, that means the inner one.

And if I am saying rare U shape, that means the mid is not recessed but sensitivity of that region is at a offset of 3dB from where the bass and treble is on Maximum state.




Slater said:


> And while on this U vs V topic, I have been meaning to clarify this for a while.
> 
> It dawned on me the other day that what I have always thought of as the different between V and U may not be what others view it as.
> 
> ...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

paramoreds said:


> Which is better for high and bass, ed16 or zs10?


ED16.

Phonograph boost everything and test whether it distorts or not. They never tell about what it sound.

Its good as we can get to know the limits, but ED16 is way better in signature and tuning perspective and has a small blueprint compared to ZS10.

ZS10 is technically awesome but tuning is where I feel pity. ZS10 is nasal and upfront with trumpets and cymbal snare is soft yet metalic. Vocals are recessed(yet defined) and bass is strong creating weird stage and incoherency over spectrum. Not like some crappy iem, but still noticeable.

You will need a equaliser to shine these.

ED16 is very good from start


----------



## Voxis9292

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Phonograph boost everything and test whether it distorts or not. They never tell about what it sound.



That's good to know ... won't let them fool me anymore~


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Voxis9292 said:


> That's good to know ... won't let them fool me anymore~


It is still good to know the limits of drivers, so I check phonograph


----------



## maxxevv

So would you call this a ZS6 clone or a CA Andromeda clone ??   *head scratcher*


----------



## Voxis9292 (Jul 20, 2018)

... was too tired and forgot that I'm not in the correct thread ... -deleted-


----------



## Wiljen

Voxis9292 said:


> Does anyone have the Zhinyin Z5000? There's only one review in this forum and it sounds interesting ...



Great question for the Chi Fi thread as it isn't a KZ product and it has been discussed there quite a bit.


----------



## Voxis9292

Wiljen said:


> Great question for the Chi Fi thread as it isn't a KZ product and it has been discussed there quite a bit.



Thanks for letting me know ... sorry


----------



## Slater (Jul 20, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> So would you call this a ZS6 clone or a CA Andromeda clone ??   *head scratcher*



This is interesting:




*ZS6 is different in this area:
 *


----------



## Zlivan (Jul 20, 2018)

Shells look just slightly different, but who knows wheather the sound is any different. Decent package though, not sure if I like the mmcx instead of 2-pin socket.

Yes, that inner part is different, but could that affect sound assuming everything inside is the same?


----------



## ViperScull

I've spent one week with the ED16, I'll make a quick review in a few days.
One question for the ed16 owners. I've noticed the volume is quite low, mostly taking into account the low 8 Ohm impedance. I have to raise the volume to 85% or so when walking on the street.
Is it the same for you?


----------



## Slater (Jul 20, 2018)

Zlivan said:


> Shells look just slightly different, but who knows wheather the sound is any different. Decent package though, not sure if I like the mmcx instead of 2-pin socket.
> 
> Yes, that inner part is different, but could that affect sound assuming everything inside is the same?



Who knows, would just have to listen to them to know. There could be totally different drivers inside.


----------



## Zlivan (Jul 20, 2018)

There's a vent hole on almost every other picture but that one.

Correction, all close-ups have vent holes, some of the others don't.

Well, there's only one way to find out


----------



## mbwilson111

ViperScull said:


> I've spent one week with the ED16, I'll make a quick review in a few days.
> One question for the ed16 owners. I've noticed the volume is quite low, mostly taking into account the low 8 Ohm impedance. I have to raise the volume to 85% or so when walking on the street.
> Is it the same for you?



Do you mean with a phone?  I assume that would vary with the device.  I only have used mine with a good DAP or my pc desktop dac/amp.  This is true of everything I have, not just the ED16.  Sometimes I add a portable amp to a dap for higher impedance gear.  With my Cayin N3 I use low gain at around 40 volume.


----------



## Tunaa

gemmoglock said:


> Thanks for replying - I just edited my post with context: I am looking for natural tonality that ATR/ZS3 kinda had, and was worried when ZS10 was criticised at https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs10/
> 
> I will check out ES4 - does it have incoherence like the similar ZST hardware? Actually I have heard both the B400 and Comet, which new KZ do you think strikes a similar balance in terms of relatively natural tonality, resolving just enough detail and sounding fun (there's a ZSA too?!)?
> 
> Thanks for the help! Shoutout to the DP-S1 too haha.


Skip the ZSA, ES4 much better in all ways.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Tunaa said:


> Skip the ZSA, ES4 much better in all ways.



And yet some would say the opposite.


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually like both ZSA and ES4, ED16 and ED15 are great too


----------



## gemmoglock

Tunaa said:


> Skip the ZSA, ES4 much better in all ways.





B9Scrambler said:


> And yet some would say the opposite.





HungryPanda said:


> I actually like both ZSA and ES4, ED16 and ED15 are great too



Thanks all for the comments! I have an ED16 on the way to complement my ATR and almost-dead ZS3. When the wallet is less empty I am keen to pick up a ZS6 as a momento of the time when KZ used designs similar to Campfire Audio


----------



## Wiljen

Voxis9292 said:


> Thanks for letting me know ... sorry



No need to apologize, I've done it too.  There is so much info here it can be tough to sort and process it all.


----------



## Zlivan (Jul 20, 2018)

Slater said:


> Who knows, would just have to listen to them to know. There could be totally different drivers inside.


Hey, guess what, I ordered one...
Since I've managed to skip ZS6 somehow I reckon I could try this one. Hopefuly they are not worse than KZ's take on Andromeda 
Will report when I get them.

I got them for $32, I guess that's not too bad for icluded bundle...


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jul 20, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> And yet some would say the opposite.


And someone loves to say opposite of the opposite of a specific statement

Add a wide bore to ES4 and compare it with stock ZSA(as ZSA being the expensive one).

I can agree that ES4 are uncomfortable but are better than ZSA when you have wide bore plus if you neutralise it with Neutraliser, ohh my god it stages fantastic. Guitar plucks gets surreal and piano reverberation can be heard which were missing in equalised ZSA. I agree with the breathe in ZSA is prominent and I quite like it but ES4 equalised with wide bore is also not behind.

Comparison:
Charlie Puth's How long FLAC 24bit 192kHz
Both IEM equalised for my ear

*Bass*
ES4: it does everything effortlessly, subbass extension is amazing for price and separation, which is hard in bass is also very good. Its decay is natural yet faster than counterparts and has enough slam and body to it. I can hear bass instruments separately.

ZSA: faster than ES4, and less impact and body. This quick transition of dynamic driver is noticeable. It makes me remember the TinAudio T2, just slight more mid bass on ZSA. It just separates the bass instrument completely. Bass guitar and rumble don't blend and are played separately.

*Mids*
ES4: lovely, if given space. I mean to say, if mid centric song is played, it just does what I needed an IEM to do. ZS10 was placed to backward and was hollow and recessed compared ES4. It sounds like Kinera Idun(standard) without that detailing. I mean to say, that the mids are uplifted compared to ZST and ES3. Mids coherency is also spot on. Charlie Puth vocal are separated from everything and is portrayed very clean. Instrument doesn't clogs vocals like other KZ.

ZSA: recessed compared to ES4, stage is smaller but image of tone is better. Piano and violin sounds lifeless compared to ES4. The depth and reverb of ES4 is missing and air on them is increased making some strings sharper and sibilant. The best part is the background voices comes forward in ES4 which, initially was very weird but then I enjoyed it after sometime. It was more prominent than my 64audio u18t, but still on enjoyable level. Breathe was also more than u18t, but overall vocal information and instrument was recessed.

*Treble*
ES4: something like ZST, but 8kHz dramatically reduced. This made the instrument less sibilant but increased the sense on lower treble making it sibilant, but after EQ, it gets phenomenal. Sometimes making me think, is this seriously a 10$ stuff(I bought it for 10$, actually 15$). The problem is with cymbals, as they are now lowered, I was able to listen the details now as they are not masked with energy like ZST was. The cymbal sounds to linger a bit which can be sometimes annoying. Breathe harmonics can get fundamentally more detailed due go this, but fundamentally its not like ZSA, which makes it a little more enjoyable for me.

ZSA: lovely treble tightness but harsh to me as my resonant peak is 6kHz. After EQ, I noticed the treble to be more tight and air representation to be more tight and extended. It gave the stage some space and blackness overall which I liked but they were still close compared to ES4.

ZSA loves to show you thread of a clothes whereas ES4 let's you appreciate the clothes altogether. ES4 stitches instrument yet let you hear details and ZSA separates them.

But why do I like eq ES4 over eq ZSA is because it does piano, violin or I would say instruments better. My bösendorfer concert grande 290 imperial recording sounds more accurate on ES4 compared to ZSA. ZSA makes it sound like Steinway reverb with bösendorfer string(lack of the gravitas, weight and the individual reverb characteristic) making Eq ZSA sound coloured compared to Eq ES4.

I will agree with air and overall clarity, separation being better on ZSA.

But ES4 is a jack of all trade and tries to do everything a little right in KZ house compared to ZSA.


----------



## Slater

Zlivan said:


> Hey, guess what, I ordered one...
> Since I've managed to skip ZS6 somehow I reckon I could try this one. Hopefuly they are not worse than KZ's take on Andromeda
> Will report when I get them.
> 
> I got them for $32, I guess that's not too bad for icluded bundle...



Where did you even find them? I searched Aliexpress and there were no active listings.


----------



## maxxevv (Jul 20, 2018)

Slater said:


> Where did you even find them? I searched Aliexpress and there were no active listings.



They can be found here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.2e627ed9aYmTMO

But they seem to be having a promotion linked from their Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/lai.yoo.5

Anyway, you can find it on Aliexpress listings: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20180720085017&SearchText=PHB+EM-023


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Where did you even find them? I searched Aliexpress and there were no active listings.



Is this what you are looking for Slater?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.15.50ce581dao80zk


----------



## B9Scrambler

ES4 ordered. Now for the long wait. Can't wait for the review


----------



## Wiljen

B9Scrambler said:


> ES4 ordered. Now for the long wait. Can't wait for the review



Shoulda ask - I'd have sent mine and saved you the wait.


----------



## Zlivan

Slater said:


> Where did you even find them? I searched Aliexpress and there were no active listings.


Someone posted the link either here or on Audiobudget discord channels. Either way @maxxevv posted the links on Ali.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Get the Tenmak/KZ whirlwind tips or symbio W because they need wide bore to sound the best.


B9Scrambler said:


> ES4 ordered. Now for the long wait. Can't wait for the review


----------



## Slater (Jul 20, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> They can be found here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.1.2e627ed9aYmTMO
> 
> But they seem to be having a promotion linked from their Facebook page:
> ...



OK, I feel stupid. I tried searching for that this morning and came up with nothing. There was 1 Google link to a dead/missing Aliexpress page, but I was able to view it using Google cache.

Anyways, thanks to @maxxevv, @Zlivan, and @TheVortex!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Wiljen said:


> Shoulda ask - I'd have sent mine and saved you the wait.



Thanks, but I'd rather my coverage be free of any such conflict of interest.


----------



## Wiljen

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks, but I'd rather my coverage be free of any such conflict of interest.



Yeah, but now you have to put up with the conflict of interest created by having spent your own money on them and then the anticipation of the extended wait which may place unduly high expectations on a <$10 device.   I see this as a cant win situation.
Maybe we should all just quit, that's the only safe way to handle this.


Like that's gonna happen!


----------



## Zlivan

Honestly, I'm really unsure why ES4 are hyped so much. ZS10 like tuning, but with less separation, less soundstage, too much bass, recessed highs. Sure, they are cheap, and for the price they are fine, otherwise nothing special. I could easily live withou them.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks, but I'd rather my coverage be free of any such conflict of interest.


Do you know the " but I wanna meme”

I can send you my ES4

But do I wanna..

Best meme


----------



## Slater

Zlivan said:


> Honestly, I'm really unsure why ES4 are hyped so much. ZS10 like tuning, but with less separation, less soundstage, too much bass, recessed highs. Sure, they are cheap, and for the price they are fine, otherwise nothing special. I could easily live withou them.



Well, I can't speak for the ES4 specifically, as I don't own it.

But often the story is:




which then turns into:


----------



## Zlivan

Yeah, sure, but why it is such a problem to state something isn't really a new holy grail? Is it the money? They really that expensive to try to justify the investment by praising it.

I'd understand if it was a 300 dollar pair of earphones...


----------



## CYoung234

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ED16.
> 
> Phonograph boost everything and test whether it distorts or not. They never tell about what it sound.
> 
> ...



I have been doing a lot of listening to the ED16 and ZS10, mostly just with my phone, a Nexus 6p. So, not a great source, but sounds pretty good. Neutralizer affects the ZS10 more than the ED16 on my setup, but post Neutralizer, both of these sound VERY similar. I agree a bit with what you say about the ZS10, as there is something in the sound that is a bit metallic, but I do not get the nasal effect you describe with trumpet, and I am a trumpet player. This is with symphonic music, in this case a couple of recordings of Sibelius symhonies, Berlin Phil, Simon Rattle. To me, the ED16 has a thicker and more real low end. The ZS10 has a better stage, width wise. Depth wise, they are similar. The ZS10 provides more space and 3d to acoustic instruments. I do not find vocals to be more recessed with the ZS10. I still overall slightly prefer the ZS10, as I find my level of enjoyment of the music to be higher. It just gets out of the way of the music for me. I suppose that could cause me to overlook its flaws somewhat more, I do not know. I am using Tennmak wide bores with the ZS10, and the stock KZ medium tips with the ED16.


----------



## Wiljen

I think everyone wants to believe that giant killers exist.  Fact is giants are rare enough, giant killers, even in fairy tales, are few and far between.


----------



## Zlivan

Yeah, no 
Not for ten dollars


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> I have been doing a lot of listening to the ED16 and ZS10, mostly just with my phone, a Nexus 6p. So, not a great source, but sounds pretty good. Neutralizer affects the ZS10 more than the ED16 on my setup, but post Neutralizer, both of these sound VERY similar. I agree a bit with what you say about the ZS10, as there is something in the sound that is a bit metallic, but I do not get the nasal effect you describe with trumpet, and I am a trumpet player. This is with symphonic music, in this case a couple of recordings of Sibelius symhonies, Berlin Phil, Simon Rattle. To me, the ED16 has a thicker and more real low end. The ZS10 has a better stage, width wise. Depth wise, they are similar. The ZS10 provides more space and 3d to acoustic instruments. I do not find vocals to be more recessed with the ZS10. I still overall slightly prefer the ZS10, as I find my level of enjoyment of the music to be higher. It just gets out of the way of the music for me. I suppose that could cause me to overlook its flaws somewhat more, I do not know. I am using Tennmak wide bores with the ZS10, and the stock KZ medium tips with the ED16.



Isn't the whole purpose of Neutralizer - to MAKE them sound the same? Ie you have something that you don't quite like, and make it sound like something you like. So for example, if you want neutral you can use Neutralizer to make IEM A or B sound neutral.

Or am I misunderstanding what Neutralizer is for? I don't have an Android phone anymore, so I am not able to install it and play with it myself.


----------



## Slater (Jul 20, 2018)

Zlivan said:


> Yeah, sure, but why it is such a problem to state something isn't really a new holy grail? Is it the money? They really that expensive to try to justify the investment by praising it.



I'm not a marketing/consumer psychologist, but it is usually due to many different reasons.

It's not that people try and intentionally mislead others. It's usually just small benign resaons:

1. "New toy" bias
2. Psychological expectations (like when pictures of the food on the menu looks awesome, so it influences your expectation)


​3. Inexperience with listening to a lot of different gear
4. Brain burn in (or physical burn in)
5. Your ears that day (humidity, the seal you get (or don't get), ear inflammation, if you have a cold or congestion that day, etc).
6. Time. Often OOTB stuff can be judged prematurely vs after critical listening for weeks. It's an easy mistake to make - @crabdog literally just did this (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...hones-and-iems.820747/page-1113#post-14370537)
7. Buying into the hype, which then clouds your judgement.
8. Perceived value (lower cost products are usually given more leeway to mediocre performance than much more expensive, such as a $0.99 burger vs a $500 Kobe steak)
9. QC variations. Maybe someone got lucky, and got a REALLY good/golden ear pair, which sound unusually better than some of the others.
10. Manufacturers quietly making a change. This is kind of related to the previous, and it does/has happened. The initial batch goes out and it's awesome. Then they quietly change it and it sucks. This just happened not to long ago with the BGVP DS1 v1 vs v2 (the "good" one = "TN forum" version).
11. Flat out just making an honest mistake. We all do; no one is perfect.

etc


----------



## CYoung234

Slater said:


> Isn't the whole purpose of Neutralizer - to MAKE them sound the same? Ie you have something that you don't quite like, and make it sound like something you like. So for example, if you want neutral you can use Neutralizer to make IEM A or B sound neutral.
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding what Neutralizer is for? I don't have an Android phone anymore, so I am not able to install it and play with it myself.



Haha. I suppose if that were literally true, who would need Campfire Andromedas or super expensive iems. Actually, the purpose of Neutralizer is to correct frequency response according to what your ears hear. So, you are in effect equalizing the iem to you. So, the net effect is that what you say is partially true, as you can eliminate glaring FR problems and flatten out the FR. But things like soundstage, etc. are not really changed by this. So, the iems are still different sounding.

Neutralizer works by playing a set of test tones. You adjust the volume so that each tone matches. Neutralizer then generates a profile for each iem you set up in this way. A good way to use it is to adjust each tone so that it is just barely audible. That seems like a consistent way to use it. It is very different than other EQ programs I have used, but is simple and effective for generating a pretty decent flat EQ for each iem, adjusted for the tips, your ears, source, etc.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Slater said:


> Isn't the whole purpose of Neutralizer - to MAKE them sound the same? Ie you have something that you don't quite like, and make it sound like something you like. So for example, if you want neutral you can use Neutralizer to make IEM A or B sound neutral.
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding what Neutralizer is for? I don't have an Android phone anymore, so I am not able to install it and play with it myself.




You can't really make an IEM sound like another using EQ. Each IEM has it's own unique base sound and there's only so much you can achieve using EQ, You can increase the bass on a ZS6, but it will never sound as fast and tight as the F9 Pro due to different driver construction. You can increase the midrange and highs, but it will only sound louder and harsher not clearer or more detailed. Different driver configurations and materials can not sound the same or be capable or reproducing same amount of details.


----------



## khighly

I haven't been around for quite long, but have the ZS6 changed A LOT since they were first out? I really loved the ZS6, but lost one side and never bought a new pair. I'm looking to pick up both the ZS10 and ZS6 from aliexpress shortly. Getting real bored of the iBasso IT03's and have switched back to my ZS5's with a wider soundstage and similar (but slightly darker) performance.


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> Haha. I suppose if that were literally true, who would need Campfire Andromedas or super expensive iems. Actually, the purpose of Neutralizer is to correct frequency response according to what your ears hear. So, you are in effect equalizing the iem to you. So, the net effect is that what you say is partially true, as you can eliminate glaring FR problems and flatten out the FR. But things like soundstage, etc. are not really changed by this. So, the iems are still different sounding.
> 
> Neutralizer works by playing a set of test tones. You adjust the volume so that each tone matches. Neutralizer then generates a profile for each iem you set up in this way. A good way to use it is to adjust each tone so that it is just barely audible. That seems like a consistent way to use it. It is very different than other EQ programs I have used, but is simple and effective for generating a pretty decent flat EQ for each iem, adjusted for the tips, your ears, source, etc.



Got it. Thanks for explaining how it works! Makes sense now.



HerrXRDS said:


> You can't really make an IEM sound like another using EQ. Each IEM has it's own unique base sound and there's only so much you can achieve using EQ, You can increase the bass on a ZS6, but it will never sound as fast and tight as the F9 Pro due to different driver construction. You can increase the midrange and highs, but it will only sound louder and harsher not clearer or more detailed. Different driver configurations and materials can not sound the same or be capable or reproducing same amount of details.



Yup, agreed. I just didn’t understand how neutralizer worked or what it was doing under the hood. It should really be called normalizer not neutralizer. It’s just normalizing the sound based on test tones.

Anyways, it’s all good now. I never expected an EQ utility to turn a dollar store headphone into a TOTL flagship. That not the way life works haha


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I haven't been around for quite long, but have the ZS6 changed A LOT since they were first out? I really loved the ZS6, but lost one side and never bought a new pair. I'm looking to pick up both the ZS10 and ZS6 from aliexpress shortly. Getting real bored of the iBasso IT03's and have switched back to my ZS5's with a wider soundstage and similar (but slightly darker) performance.



Luckily there have been no real changes to the ZS6. Well, technically 1 minor one (a nozzle lip), but it is random and not on every ZS6.

This post breaks it all down.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> Luckily there have been no real changes to the ZS6. Well, technically 1 minor one (a nozzle lip), but it is random and not on every ZS6.
> 
> This post breaks it all down.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992



Thanks! Is grey still the only color with the lip? I do remember the starlines getting stuck in my ears from the small nozzle.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> I see.
> 
> Which one of these sounds like what you're shooting for:
> 
> ...



Bit confused about which one of these to pick.
I want something that has deep sub-bass and punchy + well textured bass. The mids should be clear enough and airy without getting bleeded by the upper bass.
Treble has to have good microdetailing without being too sharp, but sharpness can be something i can pass on if it needs to be like that to have a good earphone.
What do u feel is better for something vocal on edm with high details and spaciousness?
I watched the t2 because people said me they're very analitical. 
I seriously dunno what to decide, i'm so confused.. 
I would really like to try the zsr but they have a huge shell..


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Thanks! Is grey still the only color with the lip? I do remember the starlines getting stuck in my ears from the small nozzle.



No, there were examples people posted of other colors with the lip.

The problem is that no matter which color you order - red, green, grey, or black - you may or may not get the lip. Therefore, I do not recommend buying it with the expectation of getting a lip. If you don't get one, there will be no disappointment. If you do get one with a lip, it will be like an extra cherry on top of a sundae.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> it will be like an extra cherry on top of a sundae.



Haha... I always told them to not put the cherry on mine.

As for tips and lips, I have never had a tip come off in my ear.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Haha... I always told them to not put the cherry on mine.
> 
> As for tips and lips, I have never had a tip come off in my ear.



I don't like the cherry either. It's just an analogy LOL

And yes, I am with you in the tip. Mine have never come off; not on the ZS5 or ZS6.

For those that have that problem though, a small drop of rubber cement smeared on the outside of the lip holds them on awesome. It works even better than the hairspray that I have recommended in the past.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> I'm not a marketing/consumer psychologist, but it is usually due to many different reasons.
> 
> It's not that people try and intentionally mislead others. It's usually just small benign resaons:
> 
> ...


I feel like this should be made its own post and stickied. So many people I know don't really think about some of these things when it comes to reviews.


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> Haha... I always told them to not put the cherry on mine.
> 
> As for tips and lips, I have never had a tip come off in my ear.


sigh...I did (shamefully raises hand). Negative effects of trimming one of the tip stems too short with the ZS10. Luckily, I had pliers nearby.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Zlivan said:


> Yeah, sure, but why it is such a problem to state something isn't really a new holy grail? Is it the money? They really that expensive to try to justify the investment by praising it.
> 
> I'd understand if it was a 300 dollar pair of earphones...


Its not a ZS10 tuning, I am sure of it.

Some people get psychologically effected when they see two similar things


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> Luckily there have been no real changes to the ZS6. Well, technically 1 minor one (a nozzle lip), but it is random and not on every ZS6.
> 
> This post breaks it all down.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992


Wrong post in quote.

An iem is always different to other iem, no matter how much you put equaliser onto it, because eq can't control decay, propagation, distortion and phases. You will need convolution program with math code to do that. Something we will call pure neutral is when you convolute a ety er4sr and take response to match other iem. Its very hard and needs a lot of math or audrino to create sound replicator and then find current signal affecting it and compare to original and then creating a circuit inside 3.5mm jack

That way you can reach pure neutral.

Neutraliser is not normalised because normalised normalise the volume, neutraliser helps you find your ear resonance and some other peaks to tame down. Always compare other frequency with 500Hz(my reference) or with 1kHz(companies reference, but I find it peaky).

ZS10 reacts well to Neutraliser, I mean way pretty good but their is a slight incoherency, which some people may find good as it is resolving, but that single driver like sound from a multi driver setup is missing which I find ES4 excel in.


----------



## audionab

my rose north forest profile


----------



## Zlivan

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its not a ZS10 tuning, I am sure of it.
> 
> Some people get psychologically effected when they see two similar things


I said "zs10 like", meaning that it's similar, not the same. Looking at their fr graphs, they look quite close, apart from the treble region. Of course, sound differs with the driver count difference and all, but not that much, really.

Some people didn't resell theirs right away, and can actually compare first hand


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Zlivan said:


> I said "zs10 like", meaning that it's similar, not the same. Looking at their fr graphs, they look quite close, apart from the treble region. Of course, sound differs with the driver count difference and all, but not that much, really.
> 
> Some people didn't resell theirs right away, and can actually compare first hand



You don't count upper mids in treble.

ZS10 is boosted on 2kHz and above region and then falling on treble region.

And today I eq'ed the ES4 to etymotic like sound on PEACE UI



And now I was able to hear incoherency, which was still very little, just the bass sounded a little faraway, this doesn't happen with single driver or multi BA, but with hybrids. Because dynamic sound of propagation and BA is very different (BA is like Beam and Dynamic is like more air).

But I was still able to enjoy ES4, even without bass(I dropped a lot). It sounded apparently better than etymotic er4 because of lower distortion.

That is not the case with ZS10. It just gets clearer but at same time turns out to be incoherent. This may sound like detailing to someone or separated instruments but when I listened to sine tones, I was shocked his much 2kHz was still inside my head(forward) and 98Hz to 1.3Khz to much back. And this us after Eq. This gave me a sense of backstage but the upper mids and lower treble makes things metalic(after Eq, before Eq it was borderline to nasal or you can say nasal on some tracks).


----------



## Zlivan

Yeah, massive differences all the way up to 4K... Upper mids are not boosted at all on the ES4, I can see it now.


----------



## deco cat

Anyone can provide good EQ settings for KZ ZS6 (limiting sibilance etc..)?


----------



## Ferrosa

deco cat said:


> Anyone can provide good EQ settings for KZ ZS6 (limiting sibilance etc..)?


Here we go:


----------



## randomnin

Zlivan said:


> Yeah, massive differences all the way up to 4K... Upper mids are not boosted at all on the ES4, I can see it now.


Actually, all the latest KZ products look like this, maybe except ZSR. There's the hump starting at 1k, then the drop at 4k, and then the zigzag random thing, sometimes including huge, short-lived drops like ESR at 16k. Not much hope they'll fix all of that any time soon.
There's this one non-Chi-Fi budget series by Sennheiser, the CX series, I want some graph making reviewer to test, like Audiobudget. These have awesome graphs available, but not many reviews stacking them up against KZs and other Chi-Fi.





Would be fun if this flipped the giant-killing narrative into a Chi-Fi-killing one. Too bad the design of this series is extremely basic and doesn't look robust, neither is it customizable. Aside from that, this is how a graph is supposed to look at every price category (the source of this graph, RAA, also have tested a few of the same models as Audiobudget, and the graphs generally look similar, so they're comparable across models which only one of the two have tested). Maybe except under 5$, but I doubt anyone who's gotten as far as audiophile forums would expect anything of the sort.


----------



## Tunaa

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I did test yersteday a fresh ES3 with stock mic cable. My feelings:
> Bass are big and round
> Voices are recessed (level and details)
> Highs are sibilant, and it is disturbing
> ...


Really? ZS6(II) ? There is no any V2 of ZS6.


----------



## Tunaa

DocHoliday said:


> khighly, you're initial impressions are very different from my own experience. The focal point or first thing I noticed with my ZSR was the bright, airy and detailed nature of the BAs, then the deep but limited bass you speak of. On my ZSR it's almost as if the upper-bass is absent and the midrange is coming only from the BAs so there is absolutely zero mid-bass bleeding into the midrange.  They seem to perform wonderfully at lower volumes and my ZSR is actually brighter than my ZS6(i). My ZSR is not warm by any stretch. The words that come to mind are open, airy, detailed and clean. The bass goes deep but it definitely doesn't  have enough weight to dominate the sound signature and force those BAs into submission, but at lower volumes the bass is in equal measure to the BAs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey bro you keep saying ZS6(i) is there any second version of KZ ZS6? And if there is how can we make sure if its V2 or not ?


----------



## Tunaa

Hey guys *please answer me back *i will buy ZS6 and is there anything like V2 or V1 of ZS6? or just every color is same ?


----------



## mbwilson111

Tunaa said:


> Hey guys *please answer me back *i will buy ZS6 and is there anything like V2 or V1 of ZS6? or just every color is same ?



Somewhere in the middle of this thread it was finally determined that there is no version two.  All colors should be the same.  Choose the color you like best.  I love my green ones but the other colors are nice too.  Some people have them all


----------



## TheVortex

Tunaa said:


> Hey guys *please answer me back *i will buy ZS6 and is there anything like V2 or V1 of ZS6? or just every color is same ?



They are the same and it's pot luck that you get a version with a small lip on the nozzle. But I think the ED16 is better than ZS6 as it is much more balanced sounding.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheVortex said:


> They are the same and it's pot luck that you get a version with a small lip on the nozzle. But I think the ED16 is better than ZS6 as it is much more balanced sounding.



I love both the ED16 and the ZS6.  I would not give either of them up.  I ended up needing Spin Fit tips on my ED16.  Using the stock Starlines on the ZS6.  I am not using the stock cable on either but I did not spend too much money on new cables... just the nice braided looking ones from aliexpress... less than $10.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Tunaa said:


> Hey guys *please answer me back *i will buy ZS6 and is there anything like V2 or V1 of ZS6? or just every color is same ?


There is a V2, but the only change is better treble channel matching and a lip on nozzle. No change in signature.

There is a meme v3 which is a 4BA + DD and a NiceHCK upgraded Knowles driver and mmcx connector version of ZS6.


----------



## fluteloop

Wiljen said:


> I think everyone wants to believe that giant killers exist.  Fact is giants are rare enough, giant killers, even in fairy tales, are few and far between.



*Fee-fi-fo-fum .... *


----------



## dhruvmeena96

BGVP DS1 2BA DD Balanced Armature 1 Dynamic Driver Hybrid Earphone MMCX Audiophile IEMS HIFI Music Monitor In-ear Earphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/vYvIBJbY?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

BGVP DS1v3 released

New transparent colors and neutral tuning


----------



## Slater

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Wrong post in quote.



No, that was the right post.

The OP asked if there have been any changes to the ZS6, because for a while there was a belief that there was a ZS6 v2. This rumor began when KZ released the grey “extra bass” model.

In the post I linked, I debunked that rumor.

All ZS6 are the same except for the color and some having a nozzle lip. There is no “extra bass”, no tuning changes. It was just KZ marketing mumbo jumbo.


----------



## Slater (Jul 21, 2018)

Tunaa said:


> Really? ZS6(II) ? There is no any V2 of ZS6.





Tunaa said:


> Hey bro you keep saying ZS6(i) is there any second version of KZ ZS6? And if there is how can we make sure if its V2 or not ?





Tunaa said:


> Hey guys *please answer me back *i will buy ZS6 and is there anything like V2 or V1 of ZS6? or just every color is same ?





mbwilson111 said:


> Somewhere in the middle of this thread it was finally determined that there is no version two.  All colors should be the same.  Choose the color you like best.  I love my green ones but the other colors are nice too.  Some people have them all



There is NO ZS6 v2.

The only difference is that SOME of the most recent production runs have a nozzle lip. That’s it. No tuning changes, no “extra bass”.

I own a pile of different ZS6, all bought at different times, and I summed it all up here, including FR graphs to prove that there’s ZERO sonic differences:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992

@mbwilson111 is exactly right. Just choose your favorite color and find the best price. That’s the only decisions you need to make. At least until KZ DOES decide to revise the tuning and come out with a true ZS6 v2. But I doubt that will happen, because they are too busy with all of the new models.

And in some ways, that had already kind of happened (where a different version has come out that resolved the tuning issues with the ZS6). But it is not branded as a KZ (although it is made in the exact same factory as the ZS6 though). That’s all I can say about it though.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> There is NO ZS6 v2.
> 
> The only difference is that SOME of the most recent production runs have a nozzle lip. That’s it. No tuning changes, no “extra bass”.
> 
> ...


It is the lips on nozzle and 2pin connector stability...otherwise no sound quality change


----------



## Slater

deco cat said:


> Anyone can provide good EQ settings for KZ ZS6 (limiting sibilance etc..)?



That’s simple. The spike is at 10k. Just cut 10k until you are happy with the results. The amount is different for everyone. It depends on the tips you’re using, your hearing, and your individual sensitivity to treble.


----------



## Slater

dhruvmeena96 said:


> It is the lips on nozzle and 2pin connector stability...otherwise no sound quality change



These people mean sound tuning. Someone could consider the colors as different versions too. So with all of the colors available that would be (4) versions of the ZS6, right?

I don’t want people to get new members confused. Other than very minor cosmetic improvements, which is only available randomly like a lottery, there is currently only 1 version of the ZS6 with regards to sound tuning.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Jul 21, 2018)

Nobody has ever reported here there is a ZS6 V2 (with different sound)
At the time the question was in the air, pushed by new descriptions as: "GREY Extra Bass" we thought maybe, but finaly not.

ED16 "ZS7" is very different, more neutral, as ZS6 is more "show off" or "on steroids" with more bass all the time, more trebles (& sibillant)
There is less trebles on the ED16, not sibillant, the bass can go very deep & strong (with special tips) sometimes only: when needed.
ED16 sounds more natural, more Jazz, when ZS6 is pure Rock n' Roll.
Details are more evident with ZS6 but it is a bit exagerated, you have to listen more with ED16


----------



## TheVortex (Jul 22, 2018)

I finally received my KZ ED15 today and it took over 3 weeks to arrive from China.

They are heavier than I thought they would be and the build quality is really nice for the price point. I paid just over £10 for the black version with microphone.

Sound signature is kind of V shaped but not too strong and it's refreshing to have a KZ that is not the over the ear style.

It's also nice that it has the newer type copper cable but it's a shame it is not detachable.

I thought I would do a post about as it is not spoken about much these days and was strangely kind of hard to source and I couldn't even purchase a version without the microphone as everywhere was sold out so is this a discontinued model?


----------



## AndrewCanDo

Correct me if i'm wrong but do the ZSAs share the same type of pin as the ZS5 and ZS3? Thanks in advance!


----------



## TheVortex

AndrewCanDo said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong but do the ZSAs share the same type of pin as the ZS5 and ZS3? Thanks in advance!



Incorrect as the ZSA shares the same angled connector as the ES3, ES4, ZST, ZSR, ZS10 etc.


----------



## B9Scrambler

TheVortex said:


> Incorrect as the ZSA shares the same angled connector as the ES3, ES4, ZST, ZSR, ZS10 etc.



ZSA's pin size is the same but the connectors are smaller. ZS3/5/6/ST/SR/10/ES3, etc. cables aren't compatible. Can't recall what connectors the ES4 uses.


----------



## deco cat

dhruvmeena96 said:


> BGVP DS1 2BA DD Balanced Armature 1 Dynamic Driver Hybrid Earphone MMCX Audiophile IEMS HIFI Music Monitor In-ear Earphone
> http://s.aliexpress.com/vYvIBJbY?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> BGVP DS1v3 released
> ...



KZ??


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

dhruvmeena96 said:


> BGVP DS1 2BA DD Balanced Armature 1 Dynamic Driver Hybrid Earphone MMCX Audiophile IEMS HIFI Music Monitor In-ear Earphone
> http://s.aliexpress.com/vYvIBJbY?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> BGVP DS1v3 released
> ...


Looks dope. Hope it sounds dope too


----------



## dhruvmeena96

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Looks dope. Hope it sounds dope too


Yup, it does look dope in blue colour. And I think they made it like the old mid centric v1 but better build and some treble extension as per review


----------



## dhruvmeena96

deco cat said:


> KZ??


BGVP


----------



## Deveraux

Suggest an upgrade cable for ZS5 v1 and ED16 please


----------



## Slater (Jul 22, 2018)

Deveraux said:


> Suggest an upgrade cable for ZS5 v1 and ED16 please



That’s a very individual preference thing.

The main differences are:

color of insulation (yellow, silver, grey, black)
impedance preference
braid style
ear hook style (memory wire, molded rubber hook)
mic or no mic
3.5mm plug type (straight or angled)
2-pin plug type (straight or angled)
if silver plated wire turning a slight green tinge bothers you or not
Bluetooth or not
budget
If you have a brand preference (genuine KZ, TRN, 3rd party generic)
Saying “recommend me a wire” is like saying “recommend me a car”. You could get 20 different answers. You need to be a little more specific if you have specific preferences. For example, a lot of people get irritated when the silver plated wires turn a faint tint of green.


----------



## HungryPanda

TRN replacement cable


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> TRN replacement cable



The yellow/orange KZ one, because it’s rare and I’ve seen very few HFers with it.


----------



## hakuzen (Jul 22, 2018)

Deveraux said:


> Suggest an upgrade cable for ZS5 v1 and ED16 please


ZS5v1 and ED16 both have BA(s) and quite low impedance, so i'd suggest considering low impedance cables (always you use a source with very low output impedance -<1ohm, <0.5ohms desirable-).
dc resistance of some cables for kz: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1787#post-13964853


----------



## oMalakai

Hey there! It's been a while since I've posted here but after my Zero Audio Tenore died, I had to get a replacement for 'em and ended up buying a pair of KZ ED16 for 16$ which seemed like an excellent deal.

So far I'm not that impressed tho. They are comfortable, the bass is much more engaging compared to the Tenore and the soundstage and separation I would say it's better too but, I'm not really convinced by the highs. Some cymbals or hi hats sounds rather off, and seems like some vocals (From some Muse songs to be more specific) have some rather annoying sibilance, same with certain sounds. It's weird because they don't really feel bright, but I don't know, I kinda expected more. The overall sound feels weirdly "dry" if that makes sense. I will still give them more time anyway and I wouldn't say they are bad but they aren't certainly what I expected. Any tips, experiences with them? Are they affected a lot by the player you are using? What about the silicone tips and stuff?

Thanks in advance


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 22, 2018)

oMalakai said:


> Hey there! It's been a while since I've posted here but after my Zero Audio Tenore died, I had to get a replacement for 'em and ended up buying a pair of KZ ED16 for 16$ which seemed like an excellent deal.
> 
> So far I'm not that impressed tho. They are comfortable, the bass is much more engaging compared to the Tenore and the soundstage and separation I would say it's better too but, I'm not really convinced by the highs. Some cymbals or hi hats sounds rather off, and seems like some vocals (From some Muse songs to be more specific) have some rather annoying sibilance, same with certain sounds. It's weird because they don't really feel bright, but I don't know, I kinda expected more. The overall sound feels weirdly "dry" if that makes sense. I will still give them more time anyway and I wouldn't say they are bad but they aren't certainly what I expected. Any tips, experiences with them? Are they affected a lot by the player you are using? What about the silicone tips and stuff?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I had a difficult time with finding the right tips... usually the stock Starlines work for me for everything.  This time after trying several tips I ended up with Spinfits on my ED16.

I have mainly used it with   my Cayin N3, my Hidizs AP200 or my desktop system... PC playing Flac thru Foobar 2000 to my Firestone Audio Dac/Amp


----------



## GamerGuppy

In my previous post I shared my impressions on the ED16. I regard them as the best all-round KZ IEM I have heard to date (ZST, ZSR, ZS5v2, ZS6).
Though the ED16 ended my quest for a good sounding IEM with which I can comfortably sport with, I still pulled the trigger on an ES4 since many people here praised it and I kind of dig the cyan color. Was I wise to join the hype train?

My conclusion in short: The ES4 has a fun-tuned, likeable sound-signature and does very little wrong for those looking for some colored IEM's with an enhanced bass or for those who are particulary sensitive to sibilance. However, those seeking more detail, better staging and an overal more neutral and coherent sound signature should choose the ED16 for just 5 bucks more.

The ES4 has a fun sound signature with a boosted bass and succesfully dodges many typical KZ problems such as recessed mids and sibilance. In fact, the ES4 has the least sibilance of any KZ I tried thusfar (equalling my IT01 in this respect). However, the ES4 clearly achieves this through recessed upper-mids & lower-treble. And this has it's side effects. E.g. acoustic guitars quickly loose their spark and sound dull since the higher-pitched crispy sounds when the strings are picked seem absent (Listen e.g. to the intros of "Seven Days in Sunny June" by Jamiroquai or "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac.)

Vocals are placed prominently up front with the ES4, more so then the ED16 or IT01. However in music where vocals are accompanied by deep bass, some bass bleed is noticable. The ES4 has a prominent bass boost which gives it a boomy character in the low-end (unlike the ZSR which has a more punch like character). Check for example "Limit To Your Love" by James Blake. It is a song with a relatively simple composition but has a bass that goes unusually deep and kicks in for the first time around the 0:55 mark. The ED16 and IT01 show better detail, seperation and imaging over the ES4 in the parts where this deep bass is present.

Though the ES4 is bass heavy, it does not go as deep as the IT01. At the 3:40 mark of "Limit to Your Love", for example, the bass on the IT01 sounds a bit like a distant nightclub playing loud-music such that you feel the rumble of the deep bass through the vibrations of the ground. However, I can't help but picturing myself one of these heavily bass boosted car-stereos when I'm listening to the same part through the ES4. The ED16 on the other hand might be lacking some bass here and is not as submersive as the other 2.


----------



## hakuzen

oMalakai said:


> Hey there! It's been a while since I've posted here but after my Zero Audio Tenore died, I had to get a replacement for 'em and ended up buying a pair of KZ ED16 for 16$ which seemed like an excellent deal.
> 
> So far I'm not that impressed tho. They are comfortable, the bass is much more engaging compared to the Tenore and the soundstage and separation I would say it's better too but, I'm not really convinced by the highs. Some cymbals or hi hats sounds rather off, and seems like some vocals (From some Muse songs to be more specific) have some rather annoying sibilance, same with certain sounds. It's weird because they don't really feel bright, but I don't know, I kinda expected more. The overall sound feels weirdly "dry" if that makes sense. I will still give them more time anyway and I wouldn't say they are bad but they aren't certainly what I expected. Any tips, experiences with them? Are they affected a lot by the player you are using? What about the silicone tips and stuff?
> 
> Thanks in advance


this matches exactly how i feel ED16. extended lows, boosted sub-bass, mids forwarder than other kz, good separation, but highs.. "Some cymbals or hi hats sounds rather off" and some sounds and vocals show "annoying sibilance"; i thought this exactly.

in order to try to change highs/resonances, before trying eq, i've pushed the starline tips all way long, leaving only 2mm from the nozzle mesh to the top of the tip. but ED16's nozzles are not long, and the result is very shallow in my ears: so i've put some foam into the starline silicon tips (DIY symbios), to provide a shallow but tight plug. highs have been improved, but still testing them this way to check if it is enough.

ED16 has low impedance (<8ohms) and 2 BAs. i've not measured their impedance curve yet, nor sensitivity, but guess low output impedance sources (<1ohm), with decent current capabilities, will be recommendable.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> I had a difficult time with finding the right tips... usually the stock Starlines work for me for everything.  This time after trying several tips I ended up with Spinfits on my ED16.
> 
> I have mainly used it with   my Cayin N3, my Hidizs AP200 or my desktop system... PC playing Flac thru Foobar 2000 to my Firestone Audio Dac/Amp


Is there any improvement, because spinfit tends to change sound due to tapered horn opening and deeper insertion.

Boosting bass and reducing sibilance treble


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jul 23, 2018)

GamerGuppy said:


> In my previous post I shared my impressions on the ED16. I regard them as the best all-round KZ IEM I have heard to date (ZST, ZSR, ZS5v2, ZS6).
> Though the ED16 ended my quest for a good sounding IEM with which I can comfortably sport with, I still pulled the trigger on an ES4 since many people here praised it and I kind of dig the cyan color. Was I wise to join the hype train?
> 
> My conclusion in short: The ES4 has a fun-tuned, likeable sound-signature and does very little wrong for those looking for some colored IEM's with an enhanced bass or for those who are particulary sensitive to sibilance. However, those seeking more detail, better staging and an overal more neutral and coherent sound signature should choose the ED16 for just 5 bucks more.
> ...


Try Wide bore with ES4.


----------



## mikp

should the stock es4 cable fit the zs3?

Just got the es4 and put my trn bluetooth on it, but the cable from the es4 does not seem to fit the zs3. Too short pins and the plastic housing is in the way


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Hey guys, today I ordered spinfit cp240 and KZ ES4 again(I damaged the old one)

Thanks @audionab for paying through paypal

Good news is that spinfit cp240 is not a tapered horn, but a straight bore with flexing joint, something like Final audio eartips but with larger bore and dual flange design.

So I think it will cure the 8kHz small peak(deeper insertion), bass bleed(wide bore) and can get me more mids and bass(dual flange isolation)


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

Just got my ES4 in. Initial impressions is that looks are good, cable is really nice compared to my KZ Ate. I guess it depends on who you ask, but I like the memory cable more than the free dangling cable with weights from the Ate. 

They are bigger than my Ate and stick out a bit. The stock tips suck, changed them with the ones I had on my Ate (not memory foam, the silicone tips)

Sound wise, they’re a bit clearer than the Ate, but not by a whole lot. I can pick up a bit more details and it sounds a bit less muddy. Bass is great, not overpowering, makes music really fun to listen to. 

Game changer? No not really. I liked the detail and “airiness” of the Piston 2.0 more, but the fact that I can replace the cable on these and maybe add a Bluetooth module is nice. And for the price of €15 it’s hard to beat. These definitely sound and feel a lot better than anything <€50 in retail stores.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Drinkyoghurt said:


> Just got my ES4 in. Initial impressions is that looks are good, cable is really nice compared to my KZ Ate. I guess it depends on who you ask, but I like the memory cable more than the free dangling cable with weights from the Ate.
> 
> They are bigger than my Ate and stick out a bit. The stock tips suck, changed them with the ones I had on my Ate (not memory foam, the silicone tips)
> 
> ...


Use wide bores and listen to Drake's Nonstop. End game for me. Actually better than ED16 on this specific track.

Try and then tell

KZ ate stock tips were long normal bore which is little wider than star lines tip.

Try KZ/tenmak whirlwinds


----------



## oMalakai

mbwilson111 said:


> I had a difficult time with finding the right tips... usually the stock Starlines work for me for everything.  This time after trying several tips I ended up with Spinfits on my ED16.
> 
> I have mainly used it with   my Cayin N3, my Hidizs AP200 or my desktop system... PC playing Flac thru Foobar 2000 to my Firestone Audio Dac/Amp



I used the ones that came with the Tenore because the stock ones seemed a bit flimsy IMO. But yeah, I wanted to try more tips but the design of the noozle just "spits" out most tips I put in due to being wide and plain.



hakuzen said:


> this matches exactly how i feel ED16. extended lows, boosted sub-bass, mids forwarder than other kz, good separation, but highs.. "Some cymbals or hi hats sounds rather off" and some sounds and vocals show "annoying sibilance"; i thought this exactly.
> 
> in order to try to change highs/resonances, before trying eq, i've pushed the starline tips all way long, leaving only 2mm from the nozzle mesh to the top of the tip. but ED16's nozzles are not long, and the result is very shallow in my ears: so i've put some foam into the starline silicon tips (DIY symbios), to provide a shallow but tight plug. highs have been improved, but still testing them this way to check if it is enough.
> 
> ED16 has low impedance (<8ohms) and 2 BAs. i've not measured their impedance curve yet, nor sensitivity, but guess low output impedance sources (<1ohm), with decent current capabilities, will be recommendable.



Ah, good to know I'm not crazy then. It's been a bit frustrating because I'm starting to really like the sound it has but it's like...nice lows, smooth mids, soft but detailed highs...and huge nasty mid-high peak that appears here and there. I've tried to fix it with EQ but it's rather impossible to get it out without destroying all the highs. And yeah, the low impedance is noticeable, they sound REALLY loud even on my cellphone.


----------



## CoiL

glad I didn`t get ED16... just for... no reason...

...and please, listen to @dhruvmeena96 advice about ES4 tips - they need wide (more balanced and detailed sound) & long bore (deep insertion and removing "spikes", improving punch/tightness) tips.


----------



## oMalakai

CoiL said:


> glad I didn`t get ED16... just for... no reason...
> 
> ...and please, listen to @dhruvmeena96 advice about ES4 tips - they need wide (more balanced and detailed sound) & long bore (deep insertion and removing "spikes", improving punch/tightness) tips.



I wouldn't say they are bad but definitely flawed. Vocals seem to be recessed too, but the things that are panned to the sides feel wide, loud and detailed. It's a kinda weird experience.
I'm gonna try new tips if I can but seems like I'm gonna have to buy some or something. None of the ones I currently have do the job.

Whirlwind tips he said? I'm gonna get some from Aliexpress and well, in two months we will see about it.


----------



## MDH12AX7

oMalakai said:


> I used the ones that came with the Tenore because the stock ones seemed a bit flimsy IMO. But yeah, I wanted to try more tips but the design of the noozle just "spits" out most tips I put in due to being wide and plain.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, good to know I'm not crazy then. It's been a bit frustrating because I'm starting to really like the sound it has but it's like...nice lows, smooth mids, soft but detailed highs...and huge nasty mid-high peak that appears here and there. I've tried to fix it with EQ but it's rather impossible to get it out without destroying all the highs. And yeah, the low impedance is noticeable, they sound REALLY loud even on my cellphone.


I experienced a bit of this as well. I use Symbio Mandarins with wide bore and shove the tip down onto the nozzle as far as possible. I compress the foam inside the tip and hold them in place while they expand. They are expensive but they work for me. Hope that helps someone... .


----------



## Slater

oMalakai said:


> Whirlwind tips he said? I'm gonna get some from Aliexpress and well, in two months we will see about it.



Consider getting the Tennmak not the KZ version. They are built much better. And you can specify only the size you want (so all L or all M). With the KZ Whirlwinds, they fall apart easily, and you are forced to only buy SML sets, giving you 2 out of 3 useless pairs.


----------



## jeromeaparis

CoiL said:


> glad I didn`t get ED16... just for... no reason...
> 
> ...and please, listen to @dhruvmeena96 advice about ES4 tips - they need wide (more balanced and detailed sound) & long bore (deep insertion and removing "spikes", improving punch/tightness) tips.



On ES4, very short tips with very large opening (as the "whirl") do sound the best for me: more trebles clear & detailed, bass reduced and more tight
long & large tips increase the bass and reduce the clarity of the trebles

On ED16, the long & large tips (as triple flange) sound better than stock starline providing deeper bass & more balanced sound. Whirl reduce too much the bass on ED16


----------



## HungryPanda

I have had a devil of a time getting the ED16 to fit and sound good but have managed by going to XL sized tips, one size bigger than I normally use. Now I'm happy with them


----------



## CoiL

jeromeaparis said:


> long & large tips increase the bass and reduce the clarity of the trebles


Do not agree with that one a bit. But as we made clear previously - our ears use totally different size tips and thus have different experience 
I find long stem and wide bore S size tips to be perfect for ES4 - more balanced, clear, tighter and detailed sound.


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

jeromeaparis said:


> On ES4, very short tips with very large opening (as the "whirl") do sound the best for me: more trebles clear & detailed, bass reduced and more tight
> long & large tips increase the bass and reduce the clarity of the trebles
> 
> On ED16, the long & large tips (as triple flange) sound better than stock starline providing deeper bass & more balanced sound. Whirl reduce too much the bass on ED16



I realized this as well. Deeper insertion led to clearer sound. Luckily I found my old tips from the ATE which are wide bore, and small, so I can get the earphones into my ears really deep and it works well for my purposes.


----------



## deco cat (Jul 23, 2018)

There's a real difference in sound quality between the standard KZ cable, the mic cable, the silver and the gold one.


----------



## oMalakai

MDH12AX7 said:


> I experienced a bit of this as well. I use Symbio Mandarins with wide bore and shove the tip down onto the nozzle as far as possible. I compress the foam inside the tip and hold them in place while they expand. They are expensive but they work for me. Hope that helps someone... .



They look quite fancy and nice but they cost as much the ED16 themselves! Oh well, I will keep them in mind, I haven't found a proper place to buy them but I like the concept.



Slater said:


> Consider getting the Tennmak not the KZ version. They are built much better. And you can specify only the size you want (so all L or all M). With the KZ Whirlwinds, they fall apart easily, and you are forced to only buy SML sets, giving you 2 out of 3 useless pairs.



I can't find them in only one size. Do you have a link or anything? I found a 18 piece pack (SML) with a case that looks nice but it's not exactly what you are saying. They look nice nonetheless.



HungryPanda said:


> I have had a devil of a time getting the ED16 to fit and sound good but have managed by going to XL sized tips, one size bigger than I normally use. Now I'm happy with them



They do seem to like bigger tips, even if I tend to use small ones. We will see if they can get even better if I get 'em proper tips.


----------



## Slater (Jul 23, 2018)

oMalakai said:


> I can't find them in only one size. Do you have a link or anything? I found a 18 piece pack (SML) with a case that looks nice but it's not exactly what you are saying. They look nice nonetheless.



From the official Tennmak store they have an 18pc (ie 9 pairs total; 3 of each color) pack with NO case, for like $8.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TEN...d-ear-tip-earphone-accessory/32808506339.html

With either that one, or the one with the $2 case you can specify ALL 1 size. So for example, if you only use S tips, you just send them a message and say ALL S. So you will receive 9 pairs of S tips. Or, if you use L and your significant other uses S, tell them you only want those 2 sizes. That's $0.89 per pair, and you don't waste any money on sizes you'll never use. Make sense?

The alternative is ONE set of KZ, with SML for ~$1.20. Well, in the example of you only using S tips, you basically paid $1.50 for 1 pair of tips because you can't use the M or L. And your 1 pair of S tips will fall apart in a few weeks, because the KZ Whirlwind tips are fragile pieces of junk.

The Tennmaks are significantly cheaper per pair, and they last 100xs longer than the KZ version.


----------



## oMalakai

Slater said:


> From the official Tennmak store they have an 18pc (ie 9 pairs total; 3 of each color) pack with NO case, for like $8.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TEN...d-ear-tip-earphone-accessory/32808506339.html
> 
> ...



I bookmarked that link, thanks! Now that makes more sense. I'm gonna look it up and see what I can do, they do look nice and you can never have enough tips anyway. Guess I'm gonna end up asking for an SMM pack. I should get rid of all my L tips at this point... 

Thanks again for the advice anyway, the KZ ones looked nice at first.


----------



## oMalakai (Jul 23, 2018)

Alright now I'm rather confused. I was just listening to the same stuff with the ED16 on my laptop, and noticed that everything sounds rather smooth and warm. "Huh, curious". Then I compared the same song on my Cowon D3 and holy crap the difference in sound is massive. The D3 sounds MUCH brigther and a bit harsh compared to my laptop, that has smoother highs and the mids seems more pronounced. I assume it has to do with the impedance?

Bass seems to suffer quite a lot on my laptop tho. It loses a lot of rumble. It's the first time I've experienced such massive difference between sources


----------



## MDH12AX7

oMalakai said:


> They look quite fancy and nice but they cost as much the ED16 themselves! Oh well, I will keep them in mind, I haven't found a proper place to buy them but I like the concept.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Mandarins are pricey but you can get 3 pairs for $10 US direct from Symbio.
http://symbioeartips.com/termek/symbio-w/


----------



## hakuzen

oMalakai said:


> Alright now I'm rather confused. I was just listening to the same stuff with the ED16 on my laptop, and noticed that everything sounds rather smooth and warm. "Huh, curious". Then I compared the same song on my Cowon D3 and holy crap the difference in sound is massive. The D3 sounds MUCH brigther and a bit harsh compared to my laptop, that has smoother highs and the mids seems more pronounced. I assume it has to do with the impedance?
> 
> Bass seems to suffer quite a lot on my laptop tho. It loses a lot of rumble. It's the first time I've experienced such massive difference between sources


yes. output impedance of the source will affect upper mids and highs (balanced armatures).
and output decoupling capacitors (low capacity ones) in source will affect the bass dramatically.
lower impedance of iems accentuate this.



oMalakai said:


> They look quite fancy and nice but they cost as much the ED16 themselves! Oh well, I will keep them in mind, I haven't found a proper place to buy them but I like the concept.


you can make your own "symbios" easily..


----------



## skeewiff (Jul 24, 2018)

I agree with dhruvmeena96 listening to all those who say they sound better I put wide bore tips to my es4 and have improved in clarity.


----------



## nxnje

skeewiff said:


> I agree with dhruvmeena96 listening to all those who say they sound better I put wide bore tips to my es4 and have improved in clarity.


I'm always here Reading about Wide bore tips, but I can't Still understand Which kind of tips do you mean
Could you please a photo about the wide bore tips so I can understand which tips are you talking about?
I am going to get new headphones soon so if I know those actually works well I would maybe know how to solve my fitting issues if they appear


----------



## audionab

nxnje said:


> I'm always here Reading about Wide bore tips, but I can't Still understand Which kind of tips do you mean
> Could you please a photo about the wide bore tips so I can understand which tips are you talking about?
> I am going to get new headphones soon so if I know those actually works well I would maybe know how to solve my fitting issues if they appear







the bore(hole) in the tip is wide(big)


----------



## skeewiff

nxnje said:


> I'm always here Reading about Wide bore tips, but I can't Still understand Which kind of tips do you mean
> Could you please a photo about the wide bore tips so I can understand which tips are you talking about?
> I am going to get new headphones soon so if I know those actually works well I would maybe know how to solve my fitting issues if they appear


----------



## nxnje

audionab said:


> the bore(hole) in the tip is wide(big)





skeewiff said:


>



Oh i understood now.
Gonna try those asap


----------



## Slater (Jul 24, 2018)

nxnje said:


> I'm always here Reading about Wide bore tips, but I can't Still understand Which kind of tips do you mean
> Could you please a photo about the wide bore tips so I can understand which tips are you talking about?
> I am going to get new headphones soon so if I know those actually works well I would maybe know how to solve my fitting issues if they appear



As others have mentioned, wide bore simply means the center “bore” (ie hole where the sound comes) out is very wide. Compare this to KZ Starlines or Sony Hybrids, or Olive tips, which have a very narrow bore.

Auvio tips are my favorite wide bore by far. They fit as securely as the Starlines, but are wide bore. KZ is nuts for it making these, as they are far superior to their crap Whirlwind wide bore tips:


There’s many other wide bore tips too. Here’s some which I think are originally intended for some Beats IEM (power beats maybe):


Here’s some random/generic wide bore tips:


I even have some wide bore double flange tips, which is nice because most double and triple flange tips have a very narrow bore.


----------



## andry.dvt

hello I bought the kz es 4, and seeing your comments about the eartips, I took the whirldwind of the kz because I do not know what size to take and leave them all, I also ordered by mistake the eartip foam always kz but I read that they come off
easily .. I was right to take the whirlwind of the kz? There is much difference with The tennmak? and one last question I should take a couple of better  foam eartip of  kz or whirlwind sound better with these headphones? 

Thank you..

Ps. does the silver plated cable really improve the sound?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

andry.dvt said:


> hello I bought the kz es 4, and seeing your comments about the eartips, I took the whirldwind of the kz because I do not know what size to take and leave them all, I also ordered by mistake the eartip foam always kz but I read that they come off
> easily .. I was right to take the whirlwind of the kz? There is much difference with The tennmak? and one last question I should take a couple of better  foam eartip of  kz or whirlwind sound better with these headphones?
> 
> Thank you..
> ...


Tenmak center core or the pipe or anything you want to say is more solid and is better connected to eartip surround. More solid to wear and tear when you start using it.

No sound changes but will last for lifetime.

Silver cable 4core is just aesthetic, the 8core metal connector is a little upgrade in tightening the treble range due to 1/2 impedance compared to normal.


----------



## andry.dvt

OK thanks. and about the foam tip do you advise me to order them or do you think that these kz amplify the bass too much? do these whirlwind of kz isolate from outside sounds well enough? Thank you


----------



## Slater

andry.dvt said:


> hello I bought the kz es 4, and seeing your comments about the eartips, I took the whirldwind of the kz because I do not know what size to take and leave them all, I also ordered by mistake the eartip foam always kz but I read that they come off
> easily .. I was right to take the whirlwind of the kz? There is much difference with The tennmak? and one last question I should take a couple of better  foam eartip of  kz or whirlwind sound better with these headphones?
> 
> Thank you..
> ...



Tennmak tips are made better. Visually, they look the same (except different color choices). But the KZ tips tear very easily at the top. Tennmaks are cheaper and stronger.

Also, if you don’t know what size you need, you can order the Tennmaks as a SML set just like the KZ SML set. It’s just that with Tennmak you can also specify a specific size (if you happen to know it). You cannot do that with the KZ tips.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> As others have mentioned, wide bore simply means the center “bore” (ie hole where the sound comes) out is very wide. Compare this to KZ Starlines or Sony Hybrids, or Olive tips, which have a very narrow bore.
> 
> Auvio tips are my favorite wide bore by far. They fit as securely as the Starlines, but are wide bore. KZ is nuts for it making these, as they are far superior to their crap Whirlwind wide bore tips:
> 
> ...



How could you always be so detailed? U crazy man ahahahah

Anyway, are they compatible with every kind of headphone or the connection to the nozzle is even large and could maybe not fit? I mean, they can be mounted on every kind of headphone or the headphone has to have a bigger nozzle end(in terms of diameter)?
Gonna pickup a KZ ZSA i think in these days, i love foam tips as i have driver flex problems with the silicone tips, but i can maybe try again buying new tips.


----------



## andry.dvt

OK thanks. and about the foam tip do you advise me to order them or do you think that these kz amplify the bass too much? do these whirlwind of kz isolate from outside sounds well enough?


----------



## Slater (Jul 24, 2018)

nxnje said:


> How could you always be so detailed? U crazy man ahahahah
> 
> Anyway, are they compatible with every kind of headphone or the connection to the nozzle is even large and could maybe not fit? I mean, they can be mounted on every kind of headphone or the headphone has to have a bigger nozzle end(in terms of diameter)?
> Gonna pickup a KZ ZSA i think in these days, i love foam tips as i have driver flex problems with the silicone tips, but i can maybe try again buying new tips.



Different IEMs have different nozzle diameters. For example, Shure E4c has 3mm nozzles. But Pioneer CH9T have 7mm nozzles. So it all depends on the nozzle of your IEM.

I don’t own the ZSA, so I am not sure what size nozzle it has.

Likewise, different tips are made to fit different nozzle sizes. I have some tips that are designed for 3 or 4mm nozzles. And some that are designed for 5 or 6mm nozzles.

If you buy tips that are too small, they won’t fit over the nozzles. If you buy tips that are too big, they will fall off.

There’s literally thousands of different tips and thousands of different earphones, with millions of possible combinations. Think of it like shoes and feet. Feet come in different sizes, as do shoes.

The best thing to do is measure your nozzle with a ruler or calipers, and then check the technical specifications of the tips you are considering (or ask the seller or on HF).


----------



## dhruvmeena96

andry.dvt said:


> OK thanks. and about the foam tip do you advise me to order them or do you think that these kz amplify the bass too much? do these whirlwind of kz isolate from outside sounds well enough?


Don't go for foam as the foam shape in your ears can somewhat make bass muffled or  boosted. It depends on your ears...

But foam is a gamble between muffle sound and open field response sound


----------



## andry.dvt

ok thanks, I try first with the kz and then eventually take the tennman .. the measure is the same right? if it is ok the m of the kz I take the m of the tennman?


----------



## Slater

andry.dvt said:


> ok thanks, I try first with the kz and then eventually take the tennman .. the measure is the same right? if it is ok the m of the kz I take the m of the tennman?



Yes, the physical dimensions of the KZ and Tennmak are identical. Only the quality of construction, color, and price are different.


----------



## andry.dvt (Jul 24, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Tenmak center core or the pipe or anything you want to say is more solid and is better connected to eartip surround. More solid to wear and tear when you start using it.
> 
> No sound changes but will last for lifetime.
> 
> Silver cable 4core is just aesthetic, the 8core metal connector is a little upgrade in tightening the treble range due to 1/2 impedance compared to normal.


Thanks, is this The 8 core cable?


----------



## jthew

I have the ZSR.  Can ZS6 be described as the same basic sound signature, but with a more boosted treble?


----------



## andry.dvt

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Don't go for foam as the foam shape in your ears can somewhat make bass muffled or  boosted. It depends on your ears...
> 
> But foam is a gamble between muffle sound and open field response sound





Slater said:


> Yes, the physical dimensions of the KZ and Tennmak are identical. Only the quality of construction, color, and price are different.



excuse me in addition to the eartip you advise me to change the cable es4? I know it has been improved, possibly I take the kz one or do you recommend other brands? thank you


----------



## Slater

andry.dvt said:


> excuse me in addition to the eartip you advise me to change the cable es4? I know it has been improved, possibly I take the kz one or do you recommend other brands? thank you



Sorry friend, I don’t have that model.


----------



## Slater (Jul 24, 2018)

jthew said:


> I have the ZSR.  Can ZS6 be described as the same basic sound signature, but with a more boosted treble?



ZS6 is the one with the boosted treble, not ZSR.

ZSR is like an improved ZS6 - no massive 10k treble spikes, as well as better midrange and deeper bass. The ZSR body is larger than ZS6 though, and is plastic vs machined aluminum.

I like them both, but if I was forced to choose only 1, I would have to go with the ZSR. But the ZS6 is very special and unique. In many ways, it is the flagship of KZ (not the ZS10). At least for now.


----------



## andry.dvt

Slater said:


> Sorry friend, I don’t have that model.


Ok , And about The other MODEL?


----------



## jeromeaparis (Jul 24, 2018)

jthew said:


> I have the ZSR.  Can ZS6 be described as the same basic sound signature, but with a more boosted treble?


I would say yes, someway with:
The bass and sub are a bit stronger on ZSR
Mediums are not recessed on the ZS6
Trebles are strong and a bit sibilant on ZSR, more on ZS6

ZS6 aluminium body is very beautiful but may easily scratch each other in the box


----------



## Slater

andry.dvt said:


> Ok , And about The other MODEL?



Sorry friend, I do not understand what you mean. Please explain more clearly if you can.

You did not mention another model. You only mentioned ES4.


----------



## andry.dvt

Slater said:


> Sorry friend, I do not understand what you mean. Please explain more clearly if you can.
> 
> You did not mention another model. You only mentioned ES4.


I'm sorry I'm Italian, I wanted to know if on other models the 8-core cable improves performance and if you advise me to take it. thanks friend


----------



## Slater

andry.dvt said:


> I'm sorry I'm Italian, I wanted to know if on other models the 8-core cable improves performance and if you advise me to take it. thanks friend



No worry friend. I understand it is a language barrier. We welcome you, and we help our friends of every language and country. We all speak the same language of music!

For the 8 core wire, do not expect better performance. The difference is not noticeable by ear, only scientific measurement equipment.

The upgraded wires (including 8 core wire) has better appearance (fashion), and the wire is softer and more flexible than stock wire. It also makes less noise in your ear when the wire brush against clothes (this is called microphonics).

It is a cheap upgrade to make your earphones more personal and unique. Like if you change to fancy colored shoe laces on your basketball shoes. They make your shoes have more individuality, amd they may also be better “performance” because they will not loosen and make you fall down. But they will not make you Michael Jordan and make perfect jump shots.

Does that make sense?

As far as other models, we will help you but there are many choices. We need to ask more questions before we know what model is good for you. What type of headphone sound do you like? Lots of bass? Good midrange? What about treble? What kind of music is your favorite? Jazz? Classical? Pop music? Trance?


----------



## andry.dvt

Slater said:


> No worry friend. I understand it is a language barrier. We welcome you, and we help our friends of every language and country. We all speak the same language of music!
> 
> For the 8 core wire, do not expect better performance. The difference is not noticeable by ear, only scientific measurement equipment.
> 
> ...


ah ok thanks  I prefer a flat profile .. I listen to rock but also a bit of pop and jazz


----------



## mosz

ZSR is great but they are quite big and the nozzles are just too long - after a few minutes one of them will get out of my ear. Should I get the ZS3 or ZS6 for better fit? Or ZSA?


----------



## MDH12AX7

mosz said:


> ZSR is great but they are quite big and the nozzles are just too long - after a few minutes one of them will get out of my ear. Should I get the ZS3 or ZS6 for better fit? Or ZSA?


If you are a fan of the ZSR sound, the ED16 is often described as an updated ZSR sound and is much more comfortable. Smaller shell, smaller and shorter nozzle.


----------



## Slater

andry.dvt said:


> ah ok thanks  I prefer a flat profile .. I listen to rock but also a bit of pop and jazz



Tin Audio T2 for sure.


----------



## andry.dvt

Slater said:


> Tin Audio T2 for sure.


I already bought the kz es4 ... I found them at $ 9


----------



## Slater

andry.dvt said:


> I already bought the kz es4 ... I found them at $ 9



Sounds great! Let us know how you like it!


----------



## Bartig

MDH12AX7 said:


> If you are a fan of the ZSR sound, the ED16 is often described as an updated ZSR sound and is much more comfortable. Smaller shell, smaller and shorter nozzle.


I read that on several sites as well, and I think they're wrong. Comparing them side to side and with the other recent releases of KZ thrown in, the mids of the ED16 sound more flat and less detailed than its siblings. Also, I find it to miss a hard to describe punch the ZSR has - which makes music so much fun to listen to.

The ED16 definitely has a better fit though.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Different IEMs have different nozzle diameters. For example, Shure E4c has 3mm nozzles. But Pioneer CH9T have 7mm nozzles. So it all depends on the nozzle of your IEM.
> 
> I don’t own the ZSA, so I am not sure what size nozzle it has.
> 
> ...



Uh yes, i've done the same thing with foam tips to choose their size for my memt x5, think i'm gonna do that again for zsa tips, hoping i will not get that strange vacuum feeling that i feel with usual silicon tips because of the driver flex (at least i think it's the reason).




andry.dvt said:


> I'm sorry I'm Italian, I wanted to know if on other models the 8-core cable improves performance and if you advise me to take it. thanks friend



I'm italian too! Glad to see some italians here finally, we're gently coming into the chi-fi world like many other nations already!


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> I'm italian too! Glad to see some italians here finally, we're gently coming into the chi-fi world like many other nations already!



Viva l'Italia!


----------



## Makahl

Wait... maybe that's old news now but I didn't read it on the last pages. Is there a new KZ ZST?



Spoiler

















Google translated from Facebook:
NEW ZST >>> zst
=======================
Included, I used to use zst for three generations including this model.

For the first edition, the sale of the sound will be minimal, but there is a pointy sound that is more ear-stabbing than the current generation, both models and the first generation, the amount of bass will be less
----------------------------------------
This one inside can see that there is a grilles, a dynamic driver from the previous generation, as I compare, but based on the back of the dynamic driver, the same is probably different, but it's the same model driver. I don't know how true it is, because from the evidence of the evidence, the lid is closed. The body is very close. The previous model, the late one, is the same knit line that is free in kz zs10,. There is a different filter. The Color of the headphones is red, clear and blue, bright, inner body. There are small holes.
----------------------------------------
Sound story
The sound of zst cheerful has a difference from the previous generation (in the middle version) is that there is an opacity of a slightly reduced sound texture, causing more transparency. The Overall sound sounds a little easier. The Details, the other parts are still original. The Bass sounds fun as usual. In the middle of all the differences, it's from a little bit of a change of headphones, with a new type of line, which makes it all the same, and it's a little different
----------------------------------------


----------



## Wiljen

Makahl said:


> Wait... maybe that's old news now but I didn't read it on the last pages. Is there a new KZ ZST?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Was it ever proved that the Zst Pro even existed?  I've heard some swear it did (phonograph) and others (most here) who thought it was the Zst Colorful.   I've had the original and the colorful and thought the sound was exactly the same.  I know two is hardly a fair sample size, just sharing my experience thus far.  Before we can establish a 3rd generation of Zst, I'd like to see evidence of a true Gen 2.


----------



## Makahl (Jul 24, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Was it ever proved that the Zst Pro even existed?  I've heard some swear it did (phonograph) and others (most here) who thought it was the Zst Colorful.   I've had the original and the colorful and thought the sound was exactly the same.  I know two is hardly a fair sample size, just sharing my experience thus far.  Before we can establish a 3rd generation of Zst, I'd like to see evidence of a true Gen 2.



I've only heard that rumor in Asian forums. But there's neither proof nor measurements of a good batch between carbon and pro (colorful) to say something that's not a rumor (also most of the people here with both models say they sound identical). But this one there are a lot of visual differences though.


----------



## Wiljen

Makahl said:


> I've only heard that rumor in Asian forums. But there's neither proof nor measurements of a good batch between carbon and pro (colorful) to say something that's not a rumor. But this one there are a lot of visual differences though.



it may well be the 2nd generation. I agree that some of the visual cues are enough different to at least suggest it is a new variant.


----------



## jthew

Is it pretty much agreed by all that the ZS6 has less bass punch than the ZSR?


----------



## andry.dvt

nxnje said:


> Uh yes, i've done the same thing with foam tips to choose their size for my memt x5, think i'm gonna do that again for zsa tips, hoping i will not get that strange vacuum feeling that i feel with usual silicon tips because of the driver flex (at least i think it's the reason).
> 
> Heyy ciao cercavo qualche italiano che se ne intendesse Se puoi contattarmi in privato magari su face , per darmi qualche  consiglio che sono nuovo di questo mondo. Ti mando il mio nome in privato
> 
> ...


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jul 25, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Uh yes, i've done the same thing with foam tips to choose their size for my memt x5, think i'm gonna do that again for zsa tips, hoping i will not get that strange vacuum feeling that i feel with usual silicon tips because of the driver flex (at least i think it's the reason).
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> Viva l'Italia!


Io amo l'Italia.



And for those who say ED16 is less detailed are the people who are used to hot treble. I can agree on that, but harmonically that's wrong, as treble can colour the harmonics(reverberation etc) and can make cymbal shimmer to metallic or boxy(if weak)

And bass only colours mids, but treble is reason for recessed mids for most of case. Neutraliser taught me this


----------



## Wiljen

it amazes me how many people today have an altered perception of neutral or balanced.   It seems that so many offerings are so bass heavy and V shaped that a lot of people now have the assumption that a truly balanced signature is mid-forward and bass shy.


----------



## RvTrav

@Wiljen can you give an example of an earphone that you have that you consider to be neutral and one you consider to be balanced.


----------



## RvTrav

Just re-read your post.  To clarify you feel that most people who are now used to bass heavy and V shaped would find a neutral earphone to be mid-forward and bass shy to them.  If this is what you meant then I totally agree.  Would still like to know which earphones you consider neutral.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Jul 25, 2018)

RvTrav said:


> @Wiljen can you give an example of an earphone that you have that you consider to be neutral and one you consider to be balanced.


Etymotic ER4SR is neutral and Etymotic ER4XR, Massdrop plus, TFZ king pro, TFZ Secret Garden, Brainwavz B400 are balanced where Etymotic ER4XR and Massdrop are neutral balanced.

All Etymotic Flagship are anaemic sounding, True to life sounding because it is consistent pressure in beam form from BA, this makes it sound lifeless compared to neutral dynamic earphone. Dynamic earphones have different pressure on different parts of diaphragm which is coupled due to narrow nozzle.

TinAudio T2(not that neutral, but still considered a neutral champ on budget) sounds more natural than Etymotic ER4, whereas Etymotic sounds more harmonically and tonally correct.



Danfish98 said:


> For fit/comfort I'd go ZSA. I find them the most comfortable of all KZ I own.


Agree


----------



## Danfish98

mosz said:


> ZSR is great but they are quite big and the nozzles are just too long - after a few minutes one of them will get out of my ear. Should I get the ZS3 or ZS6 for better fit? Or ZSA?


For fit/comfort I'd go ZSA. I find them the most comfortable of all KZ I own.


----------



## Wiljen

RvTrav said:


> Just re-read your post.  To clarify you feel that most people who are now used to bass heavy and V shaped would find a neutral earphone to be mid-forward and bass shy to them.  If this is what you meant then I totally agree.  Would still like to know which earphones you consider neutral.



You got exactly the point.  If you put 10 headphones in front of most people and told them to pick the most neutral of the bunch, 9 out of 10 people will pick one with elevated bass.

  As a recent example, by definition, the ES4 is pretty well balanced, but far from neutral.   Balance being defined as the relative loudness of the upper and lower half of the audio spectrum where neutral implies equal energy at all frequencies along the way.   There is no denying that the ES4 is a V when you look at the FR chart but when split down the middle the amount of energy is roughly equal on either side of the cut.   By contrast, the MEE M6 pro and brainwavz b400 come closer to neutral in that no single frequency is particularly lifted above any other in the signature. (admitted neither is perfectly neutral but trying to stick with examples most will recognize).


----------



## deco cat

How about silver cable for ZS6? You recommend it? https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32754...Cable-Detachable-Audio-Cord-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack


----------



## RvTrav

@Wiljen  Thanks for your reply.  The earphones I use to as a  gauge for neutrality are Havi B3, Vivo XE800, Hifiman RE400, Advanced M4 and UiiSii Hi-905.  So I think we are in the same ball park I'm just in the cheaper seats.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Havi B3 pro 1 is neutral. That's about the only phone I have that's neutral anymore. Personally not a fan of neutral, but that phone is ridiculously sweet. Shame they not making them anymore.


----------



## Wiljen

RvTrav said:


> @Wiljen  Thanks for your reply.  The earphones I use to as a  gauge for neutrality are Havi B3, Vivo XE800, Hifiman RE400, Advanced M4 and UiiSii Hi-905.  So I think we are in the same ball park I'm just in the cheaper seats.



I've spent most of my life in those upper deck seats and there are some amazing products there.  Its a good time to be in audio as 20 years ago those bleachers couldn't see the field, now an occasional fly ball comes our way.


----------



## mosz

Danfish98 said:


> For fit/comfort I'd go ZSA. I find them the most comfortable of all KZ I own.



I read that the body is too small and you have to rely on the cable hook and the the tip if you want to keep them from falling.
Was pretty locked on the ZS3 before I asked here.. made me think about it again, thanks everyone !


----------



## Slater

mosz said:


> I read that the body is too small and you have to rely on the cable hook and the the tip if you want to keep them from falling.



That’s not all that uncommon, and nothing wrong with that per se. 75% of my IEMs are like that, including every piston style IEM.

Besides, if you think about it, in inside meatus of your ear don’t really hold any IEM in place (except CEIMs). If you remove the tip and cable from 99% of universal IEMs, and tilt your head down, they would fall right out of your ears. So it is the tip and cable that holds universal IEMs in place.


----------



## C2thew

The ZS3 is still my favorite IEM for running and any type of sports.  The IEM just feels like it's molded into your ear and delivers a solid bass which is awesome when you need that motivation to push yourself a little bit harder.  I'm still waiting eagerly for the ZS4's release.

Until then it's pretty much the ZS10 for work and ZS3 for running for me.  The ZS6 has taken a back burner since it's kind of fatiguing to listen to for hours on end compared to the ZS10/


----------



## mikp

Got the es4 now since I was happy with the zs3, Holy bass difference. 
Sound also narrower and warmer, but do not have the great fit as the zs3.

For me personally the es4 is for bass moods, and the zs3 I think is better for longer sessions and background music.

Positiv that there was such a difference between these Earbuds.

Also ordered the trn v20 since I got out at 10 USD and can use my Bluetooth cables with it, any idea hope that compares to the zs3 and ES4?


----------



## alex5908

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Should have spent a bit a more and gotten the TRN BT cable.


Which KZ models does it work with?
I am looking for APT-X earphones or wireless cables for KZ ZS series. What are the best models to get a good sound without a sound quality loss?


----------



## alex5908

jthew said:


> Is it pretty much agreed by all that the ZS6 has less bass punch than the ZSR?


I have both of them. And not only two models. To me ZS6 has the best bass. I'd be happy with it if I could kill the sibilants. Actually I can using the Rockbox but unfortunately I have only one player supporting Rockbox.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mikp said:


> Got the es4 now since I was happy with the zs3, Holy bass difference.
> Sound also narrower and warmer, but do not have the great fit as the zs3.
> 
> For me personally the es4 is for bass moods, and the zs3 I think is better for longer sessions and background music.
> ...


That's because of the tip difference

Try wide bore and listen to low volume, I think it is a league above ZS3. ZS3 roll off treble gives the mid range a space feeling but ES4 is way better


----------



## Makahl

alex5908 said:


> I have both of them. And not only two models. To me ZS6 has the best bass. I'd be happy with it if I could kill the sibilants. Actually I can using the Rockbox but unfortunately I have only one player supporting Rockbox.



Have you tried putting a micropore tape over the BA drivers or the nozzle? That's a good way to tame ZS6's highs without EQ.


----------



## alex5908

Makahl said:


> Have you tried putting a micropore tape over the BA drivers or the nozzle? That's a good way to tame ZS6's highs without EQ.


Yes, I have but not for ZS6. That was ZS5. It helped but not much. May be I'll try it with ZS6 too. Some time later.


----------



## hiflofi (Jul 25, 2018)

Won't link the Ali, but KZ AS10 (shell that looks like ZS10) is out. Also not sure why the BA10 (the one that has a shell more similar to the ZS6) has vents when it's pure BA.


----------



## Makahl

alex5908 said:


> Yes, I have but not for ZS6. That was ZS5. It helped but not much. May be I'll try it with ZS6 too. Some time later.



The good thing is you can add layers if only one isn't enough to your own taste. Btw placing the tape like that won't change the bass, you just need to make sure the tape is covering the BAs though.


----------



## alex5908

Makahl said:


> Btw placing the tape like that won't change the bass, you just need to make sure the tape is covering the BAs though.


What's the use for putting this tape?


----------



## fluteloop

alex5908 said:


> I have both of them. And not only two models. To me ZS6 has the best bass. I'd be happy with it if I could kill the sibilants. Actually I can using the Rockbox but unfortunately I have only one player supporting Rockbox.


P


Makahl said:


> The good thing is you can add layers if only one isn't enough to your own taste. Btw placing the tape like that won't change the bass, you just need to make sure the tape is covering the BAs though.



What I did with micropore was cover the whole chrome grille. I got the dense micropore.  I understand there's more breathable styles too. That might just be different brands regardless,  I thought I'd pull the tape mesh apart to my liking as opposed to layering. I tested a few scenarios,  covering completely left the bass almost unaffected maybe more midcentric boosted, my zs6 is so bizarre with low bass, tracks that are bass heavy sound thin and then all of a sudden some random tune will have champion bass levels. I'm still scratching my head.  Anyway, the bass was all but for some shallow effect generally unchanged, the highs were greatly reduced. Some trial and error got my preferred sound, I can generally set and forget the eq since I did the mod. The method I settled on was to cut 0.5 -1mm thin strips maybe 10mm in length and then just go across the face of the grill and down the side of the nozzle. I didn't pay any attention to the positioning of the BA's. This has worked very (for me) of i could position the strip across the face of the grille in line with the BA tubes then I could probably get an even better result.  I found the blanketing method required more fine tuning (work) and the thin strip method to quickly get more into the ballpark.


----------



## fluteloop (Jul 26, 2018)

Double post


----------



## Miki811

Hey guys, I've been a lurker here for the past couple of months. I've tried looking for reviews and comparisons of KZ's USB-C cable vs the traditional ES4 stock cable (basically the same, except for the connectors). Is it worth it to purchase the USB-C? I'm currently using my phone (P20 lite) as the means for music playing, and knowing that the USB-C has its own DAC, I'm not so confident anymore about my mobile's internal DAC.

I've did some research but it was just a general USB-C vs 3.5mm comparisons. Did search in the forums as well and it was only mentioned but no reviews.


----------



## mikp (Jul 26, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That's because of the tip difference
> 
> Try wide bore and listen to low volume, I think it is a league above ZS3. ZS3 roll off treble gives the mid range a space feeling but ES4 is way better



So the wide bore is better than the stock on es4?

Looked through my purchases, and supposed to have these blue tips somewhere.


----------



## mikp

alex5908 said:


> Which KZ models does it work with?
> I am looking for APT-X earphones or wireless cables for KZ ZS series. What are the best models to get a good sound without a sound quality loss?



The trn works on my zs3 and es4, I think those uses different kz cables. 

Anyways the es4 cable does not for the zs3


----------



## fatality_strykes

Hi, Any help for a total noob? Ive been trying to read up and select a cheap IEM for my daily commute and have been stuck on the ED16 and ZST. I listen to a wide variety of music (Dance, House, Hip Hop, Reggaeton, Spanish).


----------



## loomisjohnson

fatality_strykes said:


> Hi, Any help for a total noob? Ive been trying to read up and select a cheap IEM for my daily commute and have been stuck on the ED16 and ZST. I listen to a wide variety of music (Dance, House, Hip Hop, Reggaeton, Spanish).


to my ears, the ed16 is much better tuned than the zst. it's not super-bassy but has good low end with proper seal--the zsr (not the zst) has more extension at both ends and might be better for heavier genres


----------



## Wiljen

I'm with @loomisjohnson , The Zst would not be on any short list for me at this point as too many better options exist.  ED16, ES4, ZsR all are better choices than Zst.

16 has a bit better detail but lacks the extension of the ZsR.
Zsr has best extension of the 3 but fit is on the large side.
ES4 is basically a sonically improved Zst.  Doesn't have the detail of the 16 or quite the extension of the ZsR, but has a really good listenable signature and size is such that fit shouldn't be an issue for most.  If you go the ES4 route, hop on RadioShack's website and grab some of the Auvio Wide bore tips as they help a good bit with smoothing out the ES4.


----------



## FastAndClean

When is 10BA out?


----------



## fatality_strykes

Thank you so much. Just checked out the ZSR. Found one that costs nearly the same so I'll pull the trigger soon. Got to decide between the white and black now.


----------



## Wiljen

FastAndClean said:


> When is 10BA out?



AS10 is in pre-order right now at the KZ store on Aliexpress.  Usually that means within the next 30 days.


----------



## FastAndClean

No I mean the flagship made from metal


----------



## FastAndClean

The "coming soon" one


----------



## B9Scrambler

Wiljen said:


> AS10 is in pre-order right now at the KZ store on Aliexpress.  Usually that means within the next 30 days.



I think he's asking about the BA10.


----------



## Aparker2005

And would this as10 or the other new one be worth  buying for stage iems if I have the zs10? 

The zsr I've been liking less and less lately  so I'm looking for a 2nd backup to my zs10. Deciding on either these or waiting for the new 16 driver that's supposedly coming soon


----------



## hiflofi

Regarding the 5BA KZ IEMs, I think you'll be waiting a while for KZ to get these pre-orders shipped, followed by the reviews (and many contrasting opinions there will be), followed by the a rational decision to purchase or not; It's gonna take some patience.
Sidenote: Slightly annoyed at KZ mislabelling it a 10BA IEM.


----------



## alex5908

Drumkrunk said:


> P
> 
> 
> What I did with micropore was cover the whole chrome grille. I got the dense micropore.


Could you post a picture of your modded IEMs?


----------



## andry.dvt

Wiljen said:


> I'm with @loomisjohnson , The Zst would not be on any short list for me at this point as too many better options exist.  ED16, ES4, ZsR all are better choices than Zst.
> 
> 16 has a bit better detail but lacks the extension of the ZsR.
> Zsr has best extension of the 3 but fit is on the large side.
> ES4 is basically a sonically improved Zst.  Doesn't have the detail of the 16 or quite the extension of the ZsR, but has a really good listenable signature and size is such that fit shouldn't be an issue for most.  If you go the ES4 route, hop on RadioShack's website and grab some of the Auvio Wide bore tips as they help a good bit with smoothing out the ES4.


Can you


Wiljen said:


> I'm with @loomisjohnson , The Zst would not be on any short list for me at this point as too many better options exist.  ED16, ES4, ZsR all are better choices than Zst.
> 
> 16 has a bit better detail but lacks the extension of the ZsR.
> Zsr has best extension of the 3 but fit is on the large side.
> ES4 is basically a sonically improved Zst.  Doesn't have the detail of the 16 or quite the extension of the ZsR, but has a really good listenable signature and size is such that fit shouldn't be an issue for most.  If you go the ES4 route, hop on RadioShack's website and grab some of the Auvio Wide bore tips as they help a good bit with smoothing out the ES4.


can you recommend me a pair of eartips for kzes4? are the whirlwind of kz good? what do you think about the foam earpad?


----------



## Wiljen

Aparker2005 said:


> And would this as10 or the other new one be worth  buying for stage iems if I have the zs10?
> 
> The zsr I've been liking less and less lately  so I'm looking for a 2nd backup to my zs10. Deciding on either these or waiting for the new 16 driver that's supposedly coming soon



I would think isolation and sound signature would be more important than number of drivers.  I understand the thinking that more drivers bring more detail but they also bring more crossover distortion and a host of other potential problems.   I'd hold off and see what reports come out about the quality of the new models before taking the plunge on any of them.


----------



## andry.dvt

Wiljen said:


> I'm with @loomisjohnson , The Zst would not be on any short list for me at this point as too many better options exist.  ED16, ES4, ZsR all are better choices than Zst.
> 
> 16 has a bit better detail but lacks the extension of the ZsR.
> Zsr has best extension of the 3 but fit is on the large side.
> ES4 is basically a sonically improved Zst.  Doesn't have the detail of the 16 or quite the extension of the ZsR, but has a really good listenable signature and size is such that fit shouldn't be an issue for most.  If you go the ES4 route, hop on RadioShack's website and grab some of the Auvio Wide bore tips as they help a good bit with smoothing out the ES4.


can you recommend me a pair of eartips for kzes4? are the whirlwind of kz good? what do you think about the foam earpad?


----------



## Wiljen

andry.dvt said:


> can you recommend me a pair of eartips for kzes4? are the whirlwind of kz good? what do you think about the foam earpad?



Any of the wide bore tips should be good.   I think the foams are good for isolation but not the best for sound as most dampen the treble more than I would like on the ES4.  Foams on the Zs6 are a good match as it has a pronounced treble spike the foam helps calm, on the ES4, it actually is a bit much.

I like the Tenmak whirlwinds or the Auvio wide bores.  (RadioShack still has the Auvio on sale cheap too.)


----------



## Slater (Jul 26, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I would think isolation and sound signature would be more important than number of drivers.  I understand the thinking that more drivers bring more detail but they also bring more crossover distortion and a host of other potential problems.   I'd hold off and see what reports come out about the quality of the new models before taking the plunge on any of them.



No way man - more always sounds better! Wait until they release a 30 driver IEM, which will sound 3xs better than a 10 driver one because 10x3=30! Woo hoo!


----------



## Dickymint

alex5908 said:


> I have both of them. And not only two models. To me ZS6 has the best bass. I'd be happy with it if I could kill the sibilants. Actually I can using the Rockbox but unfortunately I have only one player supporting Rockbox.


Change the cable to one of the silver ones and the sibilance disappears.


----------



## randomnin

Hey, KZ connoisseurs, could you point out which KZ models are most proficient at pieces which have lots of instruments, fast tempo, lots of changing rhythms and dynamics, like metal?


----------



## Adide

randomnin said:


> Hey, KZ connoisseurs, could you point out which KZ models are most proficient at pieces which have lots of instruments, fast tempo, lots of changing rhythms and dynamics, like metal?



Technically speaking, the ZS10 is probably one of the best, with two caveats:
- you'll probably need to eq it, about half of the owners do, including me; if you'll go this path make sure your player is competent at it;
- if you're going to use it for commuting the isolation is about average due to the three vents.

For me it turned out excellent after eq, it really feels high end and refined due to its awesome technical proficiency. There was a review recently which found the same thing.

Oh and yes, I do a lot of metal and rock.

Thats my recommendation, others feel free to chip in.

Good luck and rock hard.


----------



## randomnin

Adide said:


> Technically speaking, the ZS10 is probably one of the best, with two caveats:
> - you'll probably need to eq it, about half of the owners do, including me; if you'll go this path make sure your player is competent at it;
> - if you're going to use it for commuting the isolation is about average due to the three vents.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the new type of BA and the crossover looked pretty promising to me, too. The isolation problem, though, is a bummer. Maybe it's worth looking forward to the upcoming all BA models. Some time ago the preliminary release date floated was end-of-July. Or has that changed?


----------



## alex5908

Adide said:


> you'll probably need to eq it,


Which frequencies exactly do you equalize and by how much?


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> Which frequencies exactly do you equalize and by how much?



Probably varies by person - their age, ear anatomy, hearing range, frequency tolerance, specific ear tips used, source used, and preferred sound signature would all come into play.


----------



## thug behram

What's the best/most v-shaped model?


----------



## RvTrav

randomnin said:


> Hey, KZ connoisseurs, could you point out which KZ models are most proficient at pieces which have lots of instruments, fast tempo, lots of changing rhythms and dynamics, like metal?



Before I moved from speakers to earphones/headphones, I listened to a lot of Symphonic Metal with female vocals.  This genre did not seem to transition well to earphones/headphones.  Recently I have found 2 inexpensive earphones that seem to do a good job with this genre.  Because there is a lot going on in the bass in Symphonic Metal the bass needs to be powerful but it also needs to be quick and if not then the bass gets congested.  The other thing with Symphonic Metal is that there are times when the female vocals need to get out in front of the bass so the mids can't be recessed.  Not sure exactly what sub-genre of Metal you listen to but I find that the KZ ED16 and TRN V20 work well with Symphonic Metal.  Since I purchased these two earphones I have been spending a lot more time listening to Nightwish, Within Temptation and a number of other Symphonic Metal Bands.  Hope this helps.


----------



## Slater

RvTrav said:


> Before I moved from speakers to earphones/headphones, I listened to a lot of Symphonic Metal with female vocals.  This genre did not seem to transition well to earphones/headphones.  Recently I have found 2 inexpensive earphones that seem to do a good job with this genre.  Because there is a lot going on in the bass in Symphonic Metal the bass needs to be powerful but it also needs to be quick and if not then the bass gets congested.  The other thing with Symphonic Metal is that there are times when the female vocals need to get out in front of the bass so the mids can't be recessed.  Not sure exactly what sub-genre of Metal you listen to but I find that the KZ ED16 and TRN V20 work well with Symphonic Metal.  Since I purchased these two earphones I have been spending a lot more time listening to Nightwish, Within Temptation and a number of other Symphonic Metal Bands.  Hope this helps.



I listen to Epica from time to time. Sounds great on the Tin Audio T2, and also the VSonic GR07 Bass. Unfortunately I don’t own the ED16 or the V20.


----------



## MDH12AX7

RvTrav said:


> Before I moved from speakers to earphones/headphones, I listened to a lot of Symphonic Metal with female vocals.  This genre did not seem to transition well to earphones/headphones.  Recently I have found 2 inexpensive earphones that seem to do a good job with this genre.  Because there is a lot going on in the bass in Symphonic Metal the bass needs to be powerful but it also needs to be quick and if not then the bass gets congested.  The other thing with Symphonic Metal is that there are times when the female vocals need to get out in front of the bass so the mids can't be recessed.  Not sure exactly what sub-genre of Metal you listen to but I find that the KZ ED16 and TRN V20 work well with Symphonic Metal.  Since I purchased these two earphones I have been spending a lot more time listening to Nightwish, Within Temptation and a number of other Symphonic Metal Bands.  Hope this helps.


+1 for the ED16. It has very fast controlled bass. Not too boomy in the upper bass. Good detailed mids and treble.


----------



## Adide

alex5908 said:


> Which frequencies exactly do you equalize and by how much?



My eq settings are somewhere back in the thread.

What I did and would also recommend to others: if applicable start with Neutralizer android app and see if the result is good enough and works with your setup (was not having effect with dual dac phones for instance).

If you need more eq tweaking (Neutralizer won't step beyond certain values) or the app won't work with your player just copy the Neutralizer result curve to your eq app and adjust more.

Adjust the lesser freq you can, the least you can and it would be best to do mainly cut downs.
My adjustments pretty much went in line with ZS10 FR curve (see crinacle measurements database on this site): cuts on mid bass and upper mids, big boost on upper treble.

ZS10 is extremely eq friendly without distortion and one can profit from this.


----------



## Phantomize

Does anybody know what the differences are going to be between the AS10 and the BA10?


----------



## Miki811 (Jul 27, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Any of the wide bore tips should be good.   I think the foams are good for isolation but not the best for sound as most dampen the treble more than I would like on the ES4.  Foams on the Zs6 are a good match as it has a pronounced treble spike the foam helps calm, on the ES4, it actually is a bit much.
> 
> I like the Tenmak whirlwinds or the Auvio wide bores.  (RadioShack still has the Auvio on sale cheap too.)



This one! I've been trying between random eartips I have versus foams and I get more detail on stock starline tips, but all the more on wide bore ones. In return, the bass gets noticeably lighter, but still has the good 'ol punch. If you'd like to use foams, use the short ones. I have pretty long foams. I did cut up one set of foams by 3/4 where the nozzle is almost at the end of the foam tips, and I got similar results with silicones but with better seal.


----------



## Slater

Phantomize said:


> Does anybody know what the differences are going to be between the AS10 and the BA10?



http://www.thephonograph.net/news/k...nounced-10-balanced-armatures-earphones-news/


----------



## Phantomize

Slater said:


> http://www.thephonograph.net/news/k...nounced-10-balanced-armatures-earphones-news/


Thanks Slater!


----------



## notreal

I see a lot of people with polarity issue with latest earphones from KZ here. The symptoms the same for such messages.
Just check polarity issue here https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> http://www.thephonograph.net/news/k...nounced-10-balanced-armatures-earphones-news/


Frankly, I only look forward to the AS10. The BA10, to me, looks less than comfortable, not a looker, having, for some reason as a full BA, back vents, and being humongous in size. Plus, I have a personal dislike of having metal in my ears. But then again it's only a picture - maybe it's actually small, the back vents are decorative and sounds good. Based on the picture, though, I doubt everything I consider a con will be remedied.
The ZS10, ES4, AS10 design choices, on the other hand, I totally dig. And, praised be Xi Jinping almighty, they finally decided that having large, calligraphic letters on the back is a bad design choice.


----------



## youngarthur

Slater said:


> Probably varies by person - their age, ear anatomy, hearing range, frequency tolerance, specific ear tips used, source used, and preferred sound signature would all come into play.


Young Slater has hit it on the head.At 78 years old, I don't generally comment on the sound, for all the reasons stated, although, I would add Alcohol to his list!.


----------



## vladstef

randomnin said:


> Frankly, I only look forward to the AS10. The BA10, to me, looks less than comfortable, not a looker, having, for some reason as a full BA, back vents, and being humongous in size. Plus, I have a personal dislike of having metal in my ears. But then again it's only a picture - maybe it's actually small, the back vents are decorative and sounds good. Based on the picture, though, I doubt everything I consider a con will be remedied.
> The ZS10, ES4, AS10 design choices, on the other hand, I totally dig. And, praised be Xi Jinping almighty, they finally decided that having large, calligraphic letters on the back is a bad design choice.



Please take note that a lot of BAs have vents (fairly popular Knowles HODVTEC driver has 4 vents...) and putting vents on an IEM casing could potentially change the sound, especially if there is low volume of air left in the shells after all of the components. That said, most fully BA IEMs don't have a need for housing vents, but you can't just say that it's the rule because everyone is doing it. Maybe KZ's own bass BA (which we have yet to hear) actually needs more air than others. Maybe the shells were originally inteded for a DD and changing to BA might have happened late in development which would complicate things by removing the vents. With such small earnings per unit, KZ probably can't afford to fix things that they don't have to.

Having said all of this, I wouldn't be surprised if the vents were purely decorative and covered from the inside.


----------



## RvTrav

notreal said:


> I see a lot of people with polarity issue with latest earphones from KZ here. The symptoms the same for such messages.
> Just check polarity issue here https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php



Please help I don't understand.  I truly understand Phase & Polarity issues with speakers however the effect on what we hear only occurs when sound waves from one speaker interact with sound waves from the other and under certain conditions you will get some cancellation with it most evident on bass.  With earphones and headphones the sound waves from each side never come in contact so there is no cancellation.  Can someone tell me what an out of phase earphone sounds like compared to one that is in phase.  I have spent some time with several different earphones switching the polarity in one earpiece and not been able to discern a difference.  I have also listened the test tracks on this web site noted above and can't distinguish the difference.  I know that the full discussion of this is better suited to the sound science forum but it keeps coming up here, probably because the KZ 2 pin connectors can easily be connected with different polarities.  If someone has noted a difference can you tell me what it is so I can check again to see if I can hear it.  Could just be I can't hear well enough to discern the difference.


----------



## Wiljen

RvTrav said:


> Please help I don't understand.  I truly understand Phase & Polarity issues with speakers however the effect on what we hear only occurs when sound waves from one speaker interact with sound waves from the other and under certain conditions you will get some cancellation with it most evident on bass.  With earphones and headphones the sound waves from each side never come in contact so there is no cancellation.  Can someone tell me what an out of phase earphone sounds like compared to one that is in phase.  I have spent some time with several different earphones switching the polarity in one earpiece and not been able to discern a difference.  I have also listened the test tracks on this web site noted above and can't distinguish the difference.  I know that the full discussion of this is better suited to the sound science forum but it keeps coming up here, probably because the KZ 2 pin connectors can easily be connected with different polarities.  If someone has noted a difference can you tell me what it is so I can check again to see if I can hear it.  Could just be I can't hear well enough to discern the difference.




What you are missing is that spatial cues are all derived from timing and phase information so, if one earphone is reversed from the other, all of the information your brain uses to process where that sound is coming from is skewed and it often sounds hollow or seems to have an echo.


----------



## mbwilson111

youngarthur said:


> Young Slater has hit it on the head.At 78 years old, I don't generally comment on the sound, for all the reasons stated, although, I would add Alcohol to his list!.



You have some nice headphones.  I am sure you can tell the difference between them and lesser models.  I think it is fair to comment on whether or not you find something to be good or not.  There is so much musical information below the point where hearing begins to roll off with age.  I am not young (except in my head) and I can tell if something is good or not.  I often hesitate to be the first to say so though.  Later when others start to confirm my impressions then I am brave enough to say that I had the same impressions weeks earlier

Sometimes I will comment on the comfort and fit when I first get something and if I generally like them.

What I won't do is a/b comparisons, mainly because my ears become irritated if I have to keep removing and inserting iems over and over.  Also, I often just end up listening to the first pair for several albums and forget to compare.

Are you saying there comes a time when our opinions don't count?


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> You have some nice headphones.  I am sure you can tell the difference between them and lesser models.  I think it is fair to comment on whether or not you find something to be good or not.  There is so much musical information below the point where hearing begins to roll off with age.  I am not young (except in my head) and I can tell if something is good or not.  I often hesitate to be the first to say so though.  Later when others start to confirm my impressions then I am brave enough to say that I had the same impressions weeks earlier
> 
> Sometimes I will comment on the comfort and fit when I first get something and if I generally like them.
> 
> ...




I would point out that by waiting for others to chime in, it then becomes a chorus of "Me too" and it is impossible to discern valid observation from the hype train.    I avoid reading any reviews of any product I am reviewing until my writing is complete and posted so I don't bias my observations.   It is way too easy (even sub-consciously) to look for things others have mentioned and find them because you expect to.    I'd much rather post an honest observation even if it clashes with others (and at times I have) than have my integrity called into question because I wrote a review based on what others had said.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> What you are missing is that spatial cues are all derived from timing and phase information so, if one earphone is reversed from the other, all of the information your brain uses to process where that sound is coming from is skewed and it often sounds hollow or seems to have an echo.



Great description.  That is what it was like for me when I first heard my husband's ZSA when it was out of phase.  Having never before heard anything that was out of phase, I was not sure if that was the problem or if the iem was truly horrible.  I should listen to them again now that they are fixed but I have so much of my own stuff that I have not been motivated to do so.  I really did not like the fit for me anyway.  I prefer small iems to be worn cable down.  They were too fiddly for me to position.  My hands are no longer young.  Aging sucks.


----------



## Wiljen

I had a Zs10 that was mis-wired.  Usually polarity shifts are easy to find if it is at the connector and harder to find if it is only one driver inside the housing that is out of polarity.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> I had a Zs10 that was mis-wired.  Usually polarity shifts are easy to find if it is at the connector and harder to find if it is only one driver inside the housing that is out of polarity.



This was a case of needing to remove the connector thingie on the left earpiece and turn it around so that the normal angled stock cable could be used.  Temporary fix was to use a straight connector and turn it around.


----------



## Wiljen

Yep, had that on a Zs6 where I took the case apart and reversed the connector in the housing to correct.  Zsa should be easy to do as well since it is screwed together rather than superglue.


----------



## youngarthur

mbwilson111 said:


> You have some nice headphones.  I am sure you can tell the difference between them and lesser models.  I think it is fair to comment on whether or not you find something to be good or not.  There is so much musical information below the point where hearing begins to roll off with age.  I am not young (except in my head) and I can tell if something is good or not.  I often hesitate to be the first to say so though.  Later when others start to confirm my impressions then I am brave enough to say that I had the same impressions weeks earlier
> 
> Sometimes I will comment on the comfort and fit when I first get something and if I generally like them.
> 
> ...


All I would say, is that my hearing, at my age, probably won't equate to what younger ears are hearing, so my views would be invalid to most ears. For instance, HD800 treble peak?. Never heard it, didn't know what people meant by it. Perhaps there should be a section for us oldies, discussing HD800 lack of treble/sounds muffled?. All good fun guys and girls, we are here to enjoy our music/opinions after all.


----------



## mbwilson111

youngarthur said:


> All I would say, is that my hearing, at my age, probably won't equate to what younger ears are hearing, so my views would be invalid to most ears. For instance, HD800 treble peak?. Never heard it, didn't know what people meant by it. Perhaps there should be a section for us oldies, discussing HD800 lack of treble/sounds muffled?. All good fun guys and girls, we are here to enjoy our music/opinions after all.



Yeah, I never heard a ZS6 treble peak.


----------



## Slater (Jul 27, 2018)

vladstef said:


> Having said all of this, I wouldn't be surprised if the vents were purely decorative and covered from the inside.



This is my guess as well. Look at how many cars have fake/non functional air “vents” and “scoops”.

The design is clearly inspired by the ZS6 and ZSA, so it may have been important for KZ to maintain the same grille look on the BA10 as well.


----------



## nxnje

Thanks to @B9Scrambler i've decided going for the KZ ZSA which seem pretty good for the price and for the genres i listen to (EDM, Bass music, dubstep, DnB and so on)
I think i am gonna grab a pair even a pair of KZ ED9 as soon as i see a discount.

Then i tried today to put my memt x5 with the cable that goes around and behind the ear and i've heard a great improvement in the sound immersion, i don't know why.

Anyway, i wanted to share with you a problem i figure out everytime i put my earphones on: pratically i hear something strange.. on the left side everything is fine, i can hear every frequency and details (obviously with memt x5 limits, recessed midrange, poor soundstage) 
On the right side (right ear) i have a little problem: bass is different, mids sound recessed and highs are a bit on the darkish side. Bass is muffled or a bit less punchy. 
I thiught it was a headphone related problem but i've tried using memt x5 with the left earbud in the right ear and the effect is the same.
What can it be? Should it probably be a problem of internal ear structure? Maybe the internal shape of the ear is different or dunno.
I even noticed that if i push hard the earbud in the left ear the result is great but if i push hard on the right side all the sound is ruined.. 
Dunno what to try
I'm using foam tips as silicone tips give me a strange vacuum feeling and ruin the sound as well.


----------



## HungryPanda

You may need to use a larger tip on the right


----------



## jpgr

mbwilson111 said:


> Yeah, I never heard a ZS6 treble peak.


Neither did I. Maybe they revised the design and we have a later version.


----------



## Slater (Jul 27, 2018)

jpgr said:


> Neither did I. Maybe they revised the design and we have a later version.



There is currently only 1 sonic revision of the ZS6.

I wish this rumor would die, or KZ would finally release a 2nd (sonic) version of the ZS6 so the rumor would finally be true lol


----------



## mbwilson111

jpgr said:


> Neither did I. Maybe they revised the design and we have a later version.



No, mine was ordered back when they first came out.  It is one of the original green ones.  Also, as Slater mentioned there never has been a new version of the ZS6.  Just a new color.


----------



## nxnje

HungryPanda said:


> You may need to use a larger tip on the right



So do u think my ears are differently shaped inside? That could be the problem?


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> So do u think my ears are differently shaped inside? That could be the problem?



Not all that uncommon.

1 of my ear canals is very narrow compared to the other one. Luckily, I can wear the same size ear tips in both. But I do know people that wear 2 different size tips.

Or you could do foam tips, which will expand to fit the exact size and shape of your ear canal.


----------



## HungryPanda

I can use a medium in my left ear and a large in my right


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I use 2 mediums, but there are times when I have to go to a small in one ear or the other due to swelling or some weird reason. Ears are funny things.


----------



## xbonet

Hi! Great discussion thread!

As per the average pov of comments out there, I decided to test out the ZST's, ES4's and ZSA's side-by-side. My conclusion was that the ES4's were the best in therms of sound, with the ZST's closely behind (save for the sibilance issue), and the ZSA's a far., strangling 3rd place... which surprised me greatly in light of the praise. The only real issue with the ES4's however (and it's not a little issue) is fit: in my ears they get rather uncomfortable. No matter how I place them, they do hurt quite a bit on the outer ear after a while; whereas with the ZST's I don't feel this (on the other hand, the sibilance does hurt a bit in some songs); and the ZSA's are the best: they feel like there's nothing in my ears!

So you can imagine my dilemma!  On the one hand, do I go for the best audio quality but sacrifice comfort and will get tired during listening sessions, or do I sacrifice audio quality and get the best confort but always have, in the back of my mind, the certainty that I'm listening to sub-par sound (at least when compared to the other KZ's I've tested)? Or do I get the happy medium, the ZST, with the good fit, the nice sound, the terrible sibilance and crappy cable? What to do?

So I guess what I'm getting at is: Having already heard the ES4's, knowing how good they are, and how better they are to the other IEM's I mentioned, are there any IEM's that are comparable to the ES4's but more comfortable you could recommend?

(To give you an idea, I use large silicon ear tips because my ear canals are quite large but apparently my outer ears aren't as large in some spots, so these larger IEM bodies press against these areas.)

Thanks in advance for your advice!


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Not all that uncommon.
> 
> 1 of my ear canals is very narrow compared to the other one. Luckily, I can wear the same size ear tips in both. But I do know people that wear 2 different size tips.
> 
> Or you could do foam tips, which will expand to fit the exact size and shape of your ear canal.



I don't know, they seem pretty comfy in the ear, moreover in the left ear, while the right ear gives me problems because when i put it in i don't feel it comfortable as good as the left. 
I have to try using another size for the right here but i feel like it's something that won't solve the problem.. maybe it will modify the way i feel the sound on the right.
Do u think could this happen?


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> I don't know, they seem pretty comfy in the ear, moreover in the left ear, while the right ear gives me problems because when i put it in i don't feel it comfortable as good as the left.
> I have to try using another size for the right here but i feel like it's something that won't solve the problem.. maybe it will modify the way i feel the sound on the right.
> Do u think could this happen?



You know your ears the best, and what’s comfortable and sounds the best.

I would say to just experiment and see what you like. There’s no right or wrong answers


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> You know your ears the best, and what’s comfortable and sounds the best.
> 
> I would say to just experiment and see what you like. There’s no right or wrong answers



Yea, agreed. It's me the only voice i can trust when it comes to ear-related issues, even because no one could test my ears except myself 
Gonna do that


----------



## Podster

Howdy KZ fans, been kicking around in my old Asian Red, White and Blue rig and have to say I'm still a major ZS6 fan trouble now is always deciding on the reds, Grays or Black ones


----------



## andry.dvt

hello can you find the reactive impedence of kz es4? I would like to evaluate how much worse The sound can be with an amp with 4.6 ohm output


----------



## dhruvmeena96

vladstef said:


> Please take note that a lot of BAs have vents (fairly popular Knowles HODVTEC driver has 4 vents...) and putting vents on an IEM casing could potentially change the sound, especially if there is low volume of air left in the shells after all of the components. That said, most fully BA IEMs don't have a need for housing vents, but you can't just say that it's the rule because everyone is doing it. Maybe KZ's own bass BA (which we have yet to hear) actually needs more air than others. Maybe the shells were originally inteded for a DD and changing to BA might have happened late in development which would complicate things by removing the vents. With such small earnings per unit, KZ probably can't afford to fix things that they don't have to.
> 
> Having said all of this, I wouldn't be surprised if the vents were purely decorative and covered from the inside.


CI is Knowles bass driver without vent. So you are partially wrong bro

The vent on KZ BA10 has 2 specific usage.

1. As stated by piotrus-g of CustomArt, the venting on faceplate can tighten the decay of vented BA. Graphs were on a head fi thread I don't remember. Compliance of air on vented BA is reduced thus improving distortion figures.

2. The vent can be traced to earphine nozzle to reduce internal pressurinfront of eardrum


----------



## vladstef

dhruvmeena96 said:


> CI is Knowles bass driver without vent. So you are partially wrong bro
> 
> The vent on KZ BA10 has 2 specific usage.
> 
> ...



But my statement is much more general, it's not just HODVTEC but a huge number of the most popular BAs on the planet are vented - many ED drivers and every TWFK driver, every RAB driver, every RAF driver, 2 vents on DWFK...
Also, we can only speculate about upcoming full BA IEMs from Knowles and my point has only been there to stop people from automatically bashing KZ cuz they've included something that looks like house venting on an only BA IEM.

Lastly, unless you know more than we do, you can't definitively say "The vent on KZ BA10 has 2 specific usage." It could be just decoration (in fact, it almost certainly isn't used as a front vent which is your 2. point - it would be way too expensive and complicated to do).


----------



## dhruvmeena96

vladstef said:


> But my statement is much more general, it's not just HODVTEC but a huge number of the most popular BAs on the planet are vented - many ED drivers and every TWFK driver, every RAB driver, every RAF driver, 2 vents on DWFK...
> Also, we can only speculate about upcoming full BA IEMs from Knowles and my point has only been there to stop people from automatically bashing KZ cuz they've included something that looks like house venting on an only BA IEM.
> 
> Lastly, unless you know more than we do, you can't definitively say "The vent on KZ BA10 has 2 specific usage." It could be just decoration (in fact, it almost certainly isn't used as a front vent which is your 2. point - it would be way too expensive and complicated to do).


Agree....
I meant to say it can have that purpose.

SWFK, RFA and CI are non vented.

Most of the Sonion drivers are not vented.


Opening the shell of iem with vented driver reduces decay and increases bass.

And if they get a small tubing from nozzle to back, it can be a wonderful thing


----------



## RvTrav

@Wiljen thanks for clarifying the phase issue for me.  Once I knew what I was looking for it became much easier to identify.  I found this video that demonstrates the effect very nicely.


----------



## Miki811

Just wanna ask this up again.

I've tried looking for reviews and comparisons of KZ's USB-C cable vs the traditional ES4 stock cable (basically the same, except for the connectors). Is it worth it to purchase the USB-C? I'm currently using my phone (P20 lite) as the means for music playing, and knowing that the USB-C has its own DAC, I'm not so confident anymore about my mobile's internal DAC.

I've did some research but it was just a general USB-C vs 3.5mm comparisons. Did search in the forums as well and it was only mentioned but no reviews.


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

Ok, I've been comparing the KZ ES4 vs Piston 2.1 and Piston IV.

The KZ ES4 sounds very close to my Piston 2.1, a bit less muffled, a bit less bass as well. Still, pretty good sound. Soundstage is very compressed and there isn't much positioning of instruments. Also some instruments don't come out super clear. The Piston IV is in a different league IMHO even though it's cheaper. In one song, the difference between the guitar was so big where with the Piston IV it sounds like you're sitting close to the guitarist and with the KZ ES4 it sounds like the guitar is hiding away in a sound dampened room. Sound stage on the Piston IV is also a lot better. With the ES4 the music feels a bit more removed/far away if that makes sense.

The KZ ES4 shines more with HipHop, where its more prominent bass really lifts the songs and makes them fun to listen to. The Piston IV are a bit more analytical and detailed, but that can get really fatiguing if you listen to them for a long time. Piston IV really shine in acoustic songs (i.e. acoustic guitar).


----------



## Wiljen

RvTrav said:


> @Wiljen thanks for clarifying the phase issue for me.  Once I knew what I was looking for it became much easier to identify.  I found this video that demonstrates the effect very nicely.




Glad that helped.  It can be tough to identify if only one driver in a multi-driver array is out but, what generally you notice first and the video does a good job of showing, is that the more components that are out of phase, the more distant the sound is.   So with my Zs10 for example, most of the signature sounded pretty good but the vocals (mid driver was the one wired wrong) sounded as if they were coming from a mic at the back of the auditorium while the bass and treble sounded like they were being mic'd  from the front of the stage.


----------



## aspire5550

Hi guys, just wanted to know does KZ ZSR or any low impedence IEM that KZ release works well with ZIshan Z2 which is said to have 100ohm output impedence?


----------



## Slater (Jul 28, 2018)

Miki811 said:


> Just wanna ask this up again.
> 
> I've tried looking for reviews and comparisons of KZ's USB-C cable vs the traditional ES4 stock cable (basically the same, except for the connectors). Is it worth it to purchase the USB-C? I'm currently using my phone (P20 lite) as the means for music playing, and knowing that the USB-C has its own DAC, I'm not so confident anymore about my mobile's internal DAC.
> 
> I've did some research but it was just a general USB-C vs 3.5mm comparisons. Did search in the forums as well and it was only mentioned but no reviews.



You could always just get one and try it out.

Many of us are often the 1st “guinea pigs” to try something. It benefits the whole community, because others will come along down the road and as the same question. Then we can say “_Miki811 has one, and he said blah blah blah..._”


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Drinkyoghurt said:


> Ok, I've been comparing the KZ ES4 vs Piston 2.1 and Piston IV.
> 
> The KZ ES4 sounds very close to my Piston 2.1, a bit less muffled, a bit less bass as well. Still, pretty good sound. Soundstage is very compressed and there isn't much positioning of instruments. Also some instruments don't come out super clear. The Piston IV is in a different league IMHO even though it's cheaper. In one song, the difference between the guitar was so big where with the Piston IV it sounds like you're sitting close to the guitarist and with the KZ ES4 it sounds like the guitar is hiding away in a sound dampened room. Sound stage on the Piston IV is also a lot better. With the ES4 the music feels a bit more removed/far away if that makes sense.
> 
> The KZ ES4 shines more with HipHop, where its more prominent bass really lifts the songs and makes them fun to listen to. The Piston IV are a bit more analytical and detailed, but that can get really fatiguing if you listen to them for a long time. Piston IV really shine in acoustic songs (i.e. acoustic guitar).


Dude, did you try wide bore tips

These are tip sensitive iem. Try wide bore and guitars will level up plus bass bleed will be fixed with airy treble. Try spinfit twinblade and sibilance will be tamed and mid will rise in Cardi B tracks. Stock star lines are good for isolation but not for sound in this specific iem.


----------



## monitoringsound70

Finally went back to my ES4 this evening, give them another try, although this time I had an idea of using the wide bore red tips from my Betron, Result.....Marvellous. 

Aftet ditching the startips which ive found tend to nasal the sound of the 4s, these new tips Really have opened up the sound. 

Now I would say these are a wonderful monitor, especially for the stage. Nothing is harsh now. 
Everything from bass to treble is very smooth but with a nice bite, especially for Rock and metal. 
Thoroughly enjoying these now. 
Excellent


----------



## Drinkyoghurt

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Dude, did you try wide bore tips
> 
> These are tip sensitive iem. Try wide bore and guitars will level up plus bass bleed will be fixed with airy treble. Try spinfit twinblade and sibilance will be tamed and mid will rise in Cardi B tracks. Stock star lines are good for isolation but not for sound in this specific iem.



Yes I did, it did make it a bit more clear, but no amount of wide boring is going to make that big of a difference compared to the Piston IV. I'm not saying they're bad IEMs, they're just not that detailed for a multi-driver but still fun to listen to.


----------



## pbui44 (Jul 28, 2018)

Has anyone pre-ordered the KZ AS10 yet?  $85+???

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32902...&terminal_id=f5a23d65f0d94216899145d5f0c419e7


----------



## Slater (Jul 29, 2018)

So I stumbled onto something verrry interesting yesterday.

Estron, a large manufacturer of BA drivers, also makes a number of their own consumer earphones (in addition to hearing aids and other products). You may have seen their handiwork as the EMI CI-880 (which they also sell under the Timmkoo brand name (the CI-880 also being known as Timmkoo C630). They also make a brother of the CI-880, known as the Timmkoo C610.


 

Well, they also do a LOT of ODM work, designing and manufacturing hybrid earphones for other companies to sell as “theirs”.

Well, here’s a triple driver (1DD + 2BA) Estron released, being sold as the Timmkoo ES633. It is also referred to as the “EST”.



Well, you may recognize the logo on the faceplate by another name:



Now, granted the KZ ZST is not a triple hybrid, but I am convinced that Estron designed and manufactured this for KZ. And it is quite possible that they have or still are responsible for other KZ models as well (not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just a little nugget of information to add to our collective KZ databanks).


----------



## Sebilion

pbui44 said:


> Has anyone pre-ordered the KZ AS10 yet?  $85+???
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32902...&terminal_id=f5a23d65f0d94216899145d5f0c419e7


Do you know if they have different specs than KZ ZS10? I have the ZS10 and if they are similar there is no point to getting these.


----------



## Slater

Sebilion said:


> Do you know if they have different specs than KZ ZS10? I have the ZS10 and if they are similar there is no point to getting these.



They’re going to be somewhat similar. The ZS10 has a dynamic driver + BA drivers, whereas the AS10 is all-BA earphone.

How different is unknown at this time, as no one has the AS10 yet.


----------



## bertoknee (Jul 28, 2018)

goodday fellow KZ followers ...

I have been enjoying my ZS6's for a little while now ... partnered with my Cayin N3 they are punchy, crisp, clear and detailed...and VERY enjoyable. The hf response is to my liking ...but as I'm not a young man this is probably a result of my somewhat diminished hf hearing! ...the ZS6's seem to make up for this quite nicely.

Just occasionally though I yearn for a little more refinement and polish...without losing detail. ..so my question is this .... do KZ make anything that could genuinely be considered an upgrade? ... with a similar signature of course.

I would like to stay with KZ if possible...build quality is beautiful (my ZS5's & 6's at least!) ..+ my  KZsilver cables & BT adaptor are used regularly so it would be great to maintain use of them ...although not totally essential.

If KZ really dont make a suitable iem that could be considered an upgrade ...then..is there anything else I might try from another manufacturer .... Im thinking perhaps around twice the price ..so around $100 ..but this is not fixed. Most important thing is a sound signature that has all the good thing things about the ZS6's ..but with more refinement.

Thanks for any help & input fellas...


----------



## Makahl

pbui44 said:


> Has anyone pre-ordered the KZ AS10 yet?  $85+???
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32902...&terminal_id=f5a23d65f0d94216899145d5f0c419e7



That's unusual from KZ that they aren't showing the internals on advertisement pictures (or maybe not ready yet). I'd like to confirm whether they're using BA woofers or not. At least this shell ala 64 audio looks far better than ZS10.


----------



## audionab

pbui44 said:


> Has anyone pre-ordered the KZ AS10 yet?  $85+???
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32902...&terminal_id=f5a23d65f0d94216899145d5f0c419e7


bro check thephonograph.net for aliexpress coupon for as10 non mic version is going for 48$
i saw the coupon yesterday don't know how long it would be valid though


----------



## CardigdanWalk

audionab said:


> bro check thephonograph.net for aliexpress coupon for as10 non mic version is going for 48$
> i saw the coupon yesterday don't know how long it would be valid though



Gah! I said to myself I would only get one of these and had my heart set on the BS10. And now you did this to me!

That’s quite a discount, do you know if the phonograph normally does similar for every launch? 

Hoping I won’t wont regret passing on this and the AS10 doesn’t end up being better than the BS10!


----------



## hiflofi

audionab said:


> bro check thephonograph.net for aliexpress coupon for as10 non mic version is going for 48$
> i saw the coupon yesterday don't know how long it would be valid though


Coupon isn't showing up for me despite whitelisting the site etc. Mind PMing the coupon?


----------



## audionab

hiflofi said:


> Coupon isn't showing up for me despite whitelisting the site etc. Mind PMing the coupon?


try accessing the site on a pc
its not showing up on my mobile either


----------



## randomnin

audionab said:


> try accessing the site on a pc
> its not showing up on my mobile either


Not showing on no-adblock PC Firefox either. Workaround (you can keep all your blockers on):
1) open the coupon page, press CTRL+U (desktop Firefox) or write *view-source:* in front of the url (Android Firefox). Use search function to find the earphone name, look down to find this line _<div class="coupon-popup-code">*CODEHERE*</div>._
2) ????????
3) PROFIT!!!!


----------



## audionab

randomnin said:


> Not showing on no-adblock PC Firefox either. Workaround (you can keep all your blockers on):
> 1) open the coupon page, press CTRL+U (desktop Firefox) or write *view-source:* in front of the url (Android Firefox). Use search function to find the earphone name, look down to find this line _<div class="coupon-popup-code">*CODEHERE*</div>._
> 2) ????????
> 3) PROFIT!!!!


you got the code with workaround?


----------



## randomnin

audionab said:


> you got the code with workaround?


KZ ED16 code example:

<a href="http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/7yfIQ3B" title="KZ ED16 Triple Driver With Mic</strong></p> <p><strong> Price with Coupon: $16 // Price without Coupon: $25, ONLY WITH COUPON" target="_blank" class="coupon-popup-button" rel="nofollow">Get Deal</a> <div class="coupon-popup-code">*ThePhonograph Sweet16*</div>


----------



## audionab

randomnin said:


> KZ ED16 code example:
> 
> <a href="http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/7yfIQ3B" title="KZ ED16 Triple Driver With Mic</strong></p> <p><strong> Price with Coupon: $16 // Price without Coupon: $25, ONLY WITH COUPON" target="_blank" class="coupon-popup-button" rel="nofollow">Get Deal</a> <div class="coupon-popup-code">*ThePhonograph Sweet16*</div>


i meant to ask that you got the coupon code for as10


----------



## randomnin

audionab said:


> i meant to ask that you got the coupon code for as10


a href="http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bY2jkUfQ" title="KZ AS10 - 10 balanced armature headphone</strong><br /> <strong>Coupon Price: $48 no microphone" target="_blank" class="coupon-popup-button" rel="nofollow">Get Deal</a> <div class="coupon-popup-code">Facebook</div>

So, either the code is "Facebook", or it means I have to go to Facebook somewhere, which is confusing since no direct link is mentioned.


----------



## HungryPanda

The code is Facebook, you just have to wait for seller to adjust price


----------



## randomnin

Too bad no real photos are available of AS10, can't really judge whether there are vents and how big they actually are only by the promotional graphics.


----------



## caesar13

any ear tips suggestion for ed16?
the fitting of default ones is bad especially on my right ear


----------



## mixolyd

I’ve been away for a while, now I come back to read about KZ and it’s pretty confusing with the plethora of models, many of which are somehow flawed it seems.  From what I can gather they haven’t brought up it anything that really beats the ZS5 v1?  I’m still using a pair of those, kinda wish I’d bought a spare since they aren’t available anymore.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mixolyd said:


> I’ve been away for a while, now I come back to read about KZ and it’s pretty confusing with the plethora of models, many of which are somehow flawed it seems.  From what I can gather they haven’t brought up it anything that really beats the ZS5 v1?  I’m still using a pair of those, kinda wish I’d bought a spare since they aren’t available anymore.


ED16 beats ZS5v1 in all the things except the soundstage. ED16 beats ZS5v1 by a huge margin in coherency and actual instrument imaging


----------



## mixolyd

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ED16 beats ZS5v1 in all the things except the soundstage. ED16 beats ZS5v1 by a huge margin in coherency and actual instrument imaging



Hmm and less than £15, I might give a pair a go while I ponder getting something more pricey, thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

mixolyd said:


> Hmm and less than £15, I might give a pair a go while I ponder getting something more pricey, thanks.



Love my ED16...and I have many choices.


----------



## kramercosmo

does kz have any cable without metalwire like trn?


----------



## notreal

RvTrav said:


> Please help I don't understand.  I truly understand Phase & Polarity issues with speakers, however, the effect on what we hear only occurs when sound waves from one speaker interact with sound waves from the other and under certain conditions you will get some cancellation with it most evident on bass.  With earphones and headphones, the sound waves from each side never come in contact so there is no cancellation.  Can someone tell me what an out of phase earphone sounds like compared to one that is in phase?  I have spent some time with several different earphones switching the polarity in one earpiece and not been able to discern a difference.  I have also listened to the test tracks on this website noted above and can't distinguish the difference.  I know that the full discussion of this is better suited to the sound science forum but it keeps coming up here, probably because the KZ 2 pin connectors can easily be connected with different polarities.  If someone has noted a difference can you tell me what it is so I can check again to see if I can hear it?  Could just be I can't hear well enough to discern the difference.


It's exactly like the site said. And the sound very easy to distinguish (very different).
Why did I think that I have polarity issue? I did not know about the issue earlier until I found the topic here at the head-fi forum. And tried to change cable on one of the shells, and sound start to be good.
What did I hear with polarity issue?
1. Sound strange moved to right a little bit, like the balance between earphones not centered but moved to some side. I have played before realizing that the polarity issue with default settings in control panel and play with things on screenshot attached to the post.







2. Bass, it was very bad, not a full, after fixing the polarity issue bass start to be much better
3. Very mood mids inside the head, after fixing polarity issue, mids start to be more distinguishes, sound stage start to be more bright, and all instruments more separate, and the sound was like outside the head, not like inside head.
4. highs with reversed polarity were very painful to listen, a lot of sibilants, pss, ssss, sounds, and very painful at many compositions with the guitar.

After changing cable like the site said, everything above start to be good, sound in the center, lows much better, mids not muffed, highs does not hurt anymore, soundstage wider, sound comes around the head, and not in the head, and everything significantly improved.


----------



## notreal

Dear KZ ES4 owners, please share your personal preference for an equalizer, I wish to try your settings to make ES4 sound much better.


----------



## Slater

mixolyd said:


> I’ve been away for a while, now I come back to read about KZ and it’s pretty confusing with the plethora of models, many of which are somehow flawed it seems.  From what I can gather they haven’t brought up it anything that really beats the ZS5 v1?  I’m still using a pair of those, kinda wish I’d bought a spare since they aren’t available anymore.



It depends on what you mean by “beats the ZS5 v1”.

The ZS5 v1 is by no means perfect. It has an awesomely spacious soundstage, but it is lacking in other areas.

IMO, the ZSR is an upgrade to the ZS5 v1, in almost all aspects. The shell is huge though, so if you have small ears it may be a problem. But then again, the ZS5 v1 doesn’t exactly have an ergonomic-friendly fit either.


----------



## Slater

kramercosmo said:


> does kz have any cable without metalwire like trn?



In theory, every KZ wire is capable of not having the metal memory wire.

A lot of us remove the wire. It takes under 1 minute.


----------



## surfacecube

Slater said:


> It depends on what you mean by “beats the ZS5 v1”.
> 
> The ZS5 v1 is by no means perfect. It has an awesomely spacious soundstage, but it is lacking in other areas.
> 
> IMO, the ZSR is an upgrade to the ZS5 v1, in almost all aspects. The shell is huge though, so if you have small ears it may be a problem. But then again, the ZS5 v1 doesn’t exactly have an ergonomic-friendly fit either.


Honestly surprised the ZSR "are that good". Really tempted to buy one now lol. Except soundstage is really important to me, that feeling is just so good-


----------



## Slater

surfacecube said:


> Honestly surprised the ZSR "are that good". Really tempted to buy one now lol. Except soundstage is really important to me, that feeling is just so good-



I think they are. But you’re the ultimate judge.


----------



## kramercosmo

Slater said:


> In theory, every KZ wire is capable of not having the metal memory wire.
> 
> A lot of us remove the wire. It takes under 1 minute.


that is true, but then i need to remove the plastic too. so every kz comes with the metalwire?


----------



## Slater

kramercosmo said:


> that is true, but then i need to remove the plastic too. so every kz comes with the metalwire?



Not every KZ model ever made, but the majority of the ones with memory wire cables.


----------



## randomnin

Is the price of AS10 expected to drop to 50 bucks eventually, or is the coupon the only chance to get them at this price? What's the usual pattern?


----------



## hiflofi (Jul 29, 2018)

randomnin said:


> Is the price of AS10 expected to drop to 50 bucks eventually, or is the coupon the only chance to get them at this price? What's the usual pattern?


Using the search function I dug up these presale prices on the ZS10. Of course the x-rates have changed.


j0nb0y said:


> Just ordered my KZ ZS10's for £21.50 (pre-sale)!
> 
> Anyone know when they will be released?





Aparker2005 said:


> I'm trying to place an order for the ZS10 on Ali express for $31 and my card security keeps not approving the purchase :/
> 
> I'm in the US, any idea ?


In comparison to the current ZS10 price, I believe the presale prices were indeed lower.

However, no one really knows what KZ's plans for the AS10/BA10 are.


----------



## maxxevv

hiflofi said:


> In comparison to the current ZS10 price, I believe the presale prices were indeed lower.



I got my ZS10's on sale + pre-sale + discount coupon on Aliexpress at just under US$30/- each. Still less than what can be found on Aliexpress now. 

That said, I'm still very happy with them and in no hurry to look for the next "better  one",  shall wait out this and see what the next Aliexpress sale (usually one every quarterly and the huge November 11 one), has up for offer.


----------



## Happytalk

Got a pair of KZ ED16 with upgraded cable. Somehow very clear while still being a little bassy. I dig the sound, coming from etymotic er4s and Phonak audeo pfe 12, the ED16 are similar to both with a little lower quality of treble, but still very clear and pleasing. Bass is boosted some, but is also quite clear and doesn’t seem to disrupt the mids. A fantastic back up pair of iems.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> Is the price of AS10 expected to drop to 50 bucks eventually, or is the coupon the only chance to get them at this price?


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


>


Exactly.
Just as I planned to buy a ~50$ IEM it went from just a dilemma to a dilemma with a countdown. Lucky me!


----------



## Tunaa

I got the ZS6 Today. My first impression like 'What the *** ?' The bass is missing and sound is not that great what i expected. Maybe burn in fixed it but for now ES4 is way better. Maybe sound slightly clear than the ES4 but i think ES4 is way better somehow.. After burn-in i will repost this.


----------



## notreal

Tunaa said:


> I got the ZS6 Today. My first impression like 'What the *** ?' The bass is missing and sound is not that great what i expected. Maybe burn in fixed it but for now ES4 is way better. Maybe sound slightly clear than the ES4 but i think ES4 is way better somehow.. After burn-in i will repost this.


Polarity Issue. Try to change cable a little bit. A very big amount of items delivered in last 60 days from KZ has a polarity issue. 
How to check: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 30, 2018)

Tunaa said:


> I got the ZS6 Today. My first impression like 'What the *** ?' The bass is missing and sound is not that great what i expected. Maybe burn in fixed it but for now ES4 is way better. Maybe sound slightly clear than the ES4 but i think ES4 is way better somehow.. After burn-in i will repost this.





notreal said:


> Polarity Issue. Try to change cable a little bit. A very big amount of items delivered in last 60 days from KZ has a polarity issue.
> How to check: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php



That is what it sounded like when I listened to a pair of ZSAs that were out of phase.

Edited because extra unrelated quotes accidentally were included.


----------



## Aparker2005

Well no one can say yet, but after reading about how the BA has a lack of bass usually  I'm starting to think maybe the AS10 wouldn't be good for me as my drumming iem vs my ZS10 which packs a punch. 

Hope someone can test them soon and let us know!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Aparker2005 said:


> Well no one can say yet, but after reading about how the BA has a lack of bass usually  I'm starting to think maybe the AS10 wouldn't be good for me as my drumming iem vs my ZS10 which packs a punch.
> 
> Hope someone can test them soon and let us know!



Will let you know when they arrive. Shouldn't be long now.


----------



## Phantomize

Why has the price been increased so much on the new AS10 model compared to the ZS10?


----------



## Wiljen

I cant help but feel vindicated as when I posted my original notes about the Zs10 I got blasted as I said they were hollow and distant.   Turns out mine were amongst the first delivered with the wiring issues that have now been much more widely recognized in the Zs10 and ZsA.   At least I know my hearing isn't going on me.


----------



## Tunaa

notreal said:


> Polarity Issue. Try to change cable a little bit. A very big amount of items delivered in last 60 days from KZ has a polarity issue.
> How to check: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


Hey i just realized there is some sizzle noise(Like crackling) when i play the Rumble in phase or out of phase..And when bass hits in the music i hear sizzle noise too.. This problem same for the ES4.. Only right side is sizzling. Why?


----------



## Tunaa

notreal said:


> Polarity Issue. Try to change cable a little bit. A very big amount of items delivered in last 60 days from KZ has a polarity issue.
> How to check: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


Also i checked all of them i guess there is no polarity issues. But why the right side of ES4 and ZS6 is crackling or sizzle with bass music? Like 75 Hz to 100 HZ its obvious crackling but only right side.


----------



## Wiljen

Could be driver flex since bass on both of those is delivered by the dynamic.  is the crackle proportional to the volume like it is being produced by the driver or is it always the same volume like a mechanical issue?


----------



## Tunaa

Wiljen said:


> Could be driver flex since bass on both of those is delivered by the dynamic.  is the crackle proportional to the volume like it is being produced by the driver or is it always the same volume like a mechanical issue?


it happens mostly when the volume is full and sometimes is not happen its like random but it happens a lot. The sizzle noise.. Is it defective product ?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (Jul 30, 2018)

Does the ED16 and ES4 suffer / have any Driver Flex?


----------



## Tunaa

Wiljen said:


> Could be driver flex since bass on both of those is delivered by the dynamic.  is the crackle proportional to the volume like it is being produced by the driver or is it always the same volume like a mechanical issue?


Or it could be because of the Burn-


MidNighTempest said:


> Does the ED16 and ES4 suffer / have any Driver Flex?


i have es4 and right side has sizzle sound( like crackling) so yeah.. What a shame.


----------



## Wiljen

MidNighTempest said:


> Does the ED16 and ES4 suffer / have any Driver Flex?



I can induce some driver flex in the ES4 by seating them deeply without opening my mouth first.  Havent noticed it on the 16 but really haven't gone to any effort to try to produce it.


----------



## Tunaa

Wiljen said:


> I can induce some driver flex in the ES4 by seating them deeply without opening my mouth first.  Havent noticed it on the 16 but really haven't gone to any effort to try to produce it.


Yeah i search about what is driver flex and my KZ ZS6s suffering from it. can this kill my earphone drivers? I mean should i return them or its just flexing normal thing ?


----------



## Wiljen

Some flex is normal and by opening your mouth when you are putting them in your ears it usually reduces or eliminates it as it helps to balance pressure.


----------



## CoiL

I haven`t had any driver flex with my ES4.


----------



## Slater (Jul 30, 2018)

Tunaa said:


> it happens mostly when the volume is full and sometimes is not happen its like random but it happens a lot. The sizzle noise.. Is it defective product ?



If by "volume is full", I hope you don't mean 100% full volume. You shouldn't drive your gear at 100% volume. You can blow drivers. That may be what you're hearing (ie a blown driver).

If so, that's not a defective product but rather damage you caused (like pouring sand into your car engine and saying "_why is my car is making crunching/grinding noises when I drive?_").


----------



## Tunaa

Slater said:


> If by "volume is full", I hope you don't mean 100% full volume. You shouldn't drive your gear at 100% volume. You can blow drivers. That may be what you're hearing (ie a blown driver).
> 
> If so, that's not a defective product but rather damage you caused (like pouring pebbles into your car engine and saying "_my car is making crunching/grinding noises when I drive_".


Mostly im using %100 or %75 does this damage earphone ? Because when its %100 and bass hit with enstruments or vocals the sizzle sound shows up itself. I hope i didnt damage it ?


----------



## mbwilson111

Tunaa said:


> Mostly im using %100 or %75 does this damage earphone ? Because when its %100 and bass hit with enstruments or vocals the sizzle sound shows up itself. I hope i didnt damage it ?



That sounds like distortion.


----------



## Tunaa

mbwilson111 said:


> That sounds like distortion.


So nothing permenant damage ? is it just happening full volume.


----------



## Slater (Jul 30, 2018)

Tunaa said:


> So nothing permenant damage ? is it just happening full volume.



It could very well be permanent damage; we have no way to know because we're on the other side of the world.

Any speaker driver can blow at 100% volume (BA drivers are particularly fragile). As @mbwilson111 pointed out, it can be caused by distortion (which damages the diaphragm or the fragile voice coil).

Heck, you can permanently damage a driver just by knocking or dropping an IEM (like on a hard surface such as concrete or tile floor).


----------



## mbwilson111

Tunaa said:


> So nothing permenant damage ? is it just happening full volume.



Could be permanent damage if you are driving them into extreme distortion.  Why are you using such high volume?  What about damage to your ears?  I listen to most iems at around 35-45% with low gain.  Driving anything beyond its capabilities will not sound good.


----------



## Tunaa

yeah u guys right.from now i wont use my earphones at full volume. Maybe it because of my low quality mp3 tracks, i cant hear the music very well while it was %50. But .FLAC is good. Thanks BTW


----------



## hakuzen

Tunaa said:


> yeah u guys right.from now i wont use my earphones at full volume. Maybe it because of my low quality mp3 tracks, i cant hear the music very well while it was %50. But .FLAC is good. Thanks BTW


maybe the current limit of your player/amplifier is the cause of distortion and clipping rather than the compression of the source music.. which player are you using?


----------



## chuckler

Happytalk said:


> Got a pair of KZ ED16 with upgraded cable. Somehow very clear while still being a little bassy. I dig the sound, coming from etymotic er4s and Phonak audeo pfe 12, the ED16 are similar to both with a little lower quality of treble, but still very clear and pleasing. Bass is boosted some, but is also quite clear and doesn’t seem to disrupt the mids. A fantastic back up pair of iems.



Haven't owned the pfe 12 or the er4s  but the ER4XR is hopefully next. but otherwise: My sentiments exactly. I just got mine today. For 18$ they're absolutely worth it. I'm so glad chi-fi exists for budget-fiers like me.


----------



## Tunaa

hakuzen said:


> maybe the current limit of your player/amplifier is the cause of distortion and clipping rather than the compression of the source music.. which player are you using?


Im using phone and spotify.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jul 30, 2018)

I always use 100% volume on my phone(Axon 7 M) with poweramp.  Its not very loud imo. Definitely not enough to fry out a dd. About the same volume as 32/100 from my Cayin N5 in balanced which is pushing 325mw+325mw. My Sony NWA45 volume is about 80/120. Ipod 5.5 is usually 90% to 100% too. Old ass punk rock musician though, so maybe I shouldn't be held up as an example lol. Still though, have never damaged or fried an iem.


----------



## Tunaa

BadReligionPunk said:


> I always use 100% volume on my phone(Axon 7 M) with poweramp.  Its not very loud imo. Definitely not enough to fry out a dd. About the same volume as 32/100 from my Cayin N5 in balanced which is pushing 325mw+325mw. My Sony NWA45 volume is about 80/120. Ipod 5.5 is usually 90% to 100% too. Old ass punk rock musician though, so maybe I shouldn't be held up as an example lol. Still though, have never damaged or fried an iem.


lol my luck just bad i guess. I have 2 KZ and both of them have flex issues.


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Jul 31, 2018)

AS10 is up on official store with an explosion view of the different BAs







For me as someone who was holding out for the BA10 metal variation, it’s intersting how they are emphasising the plastic moulding side of things as enabling them to get the best sound quality! Ohh and saying the low frequency BA has been designed especially for this unit too...

Torn more than ever!


----------



## hiflofi

Really hoping the bass isn't "strong" as it is being implied. Just a personal (possibly unpopular?) opinion as I understand many if not most people enjoy a lift in the bass.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Really hoping the bass isn't "strong" as it is being implied. Just a personal (possibly unpopular?) opinion as I understand many if not most people enjoy a lift in the bass.



They always say that, especially ChiFi manufacturers. It’s just marketing fluff.

From basshead to bass anemic treble cannons (and everything in between), they always use terms like “powerful bass”, “fever bass”, “tri-band equalization”, and other gibberish marketing terms that may or may not describe the actual tuning.


----------



## bertoknee

Tunaa said:


> Yeah i search about what is driver flex and my KZ ZS6s suffering from it. can this kill my earphone drivers? I mean should i return them or its just flexing normal thing ?



is it actually possible for the ZS6's to suffer driver flex? ...given that the shells appear to be vented - thus preventing any pressure build up?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> They always say that, especially ChiFi manufacturers. It’s just marketing fluff.
> 
> From basshead to bass anemic treble cannons (and everything in between), they always use terms like “powerful bass”, “fever bass”, “tri-band equalization”, and other gibberish marketing terms that may or may not describe the actual tuning.



"The best bass headphones with super iper mega powerful super bass mega volume with dedicated bass driver mega super rumble bass"

Then you wear them: horrible and untextured muffled bass


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

Otto Motor said:


> *ED15 vs. EDR1: Looks and Dimensions
> *
> The ED15's nozzle is thicker than the EDR1's but the starline tips are the same...this required a bit of fiddling to get them onto the ED15 correctly. At least as heavy than the EDR1.
> 
> ...



Which do you like better Otto?

Is the ED15 even relevant anymore folks? It kind of fizzled out quickly...


----------



## Aparker2005

Think I'm gonna pre-order the as10 and sell my es3 and zsr. The zsr sounds okay to me but is very uncomfortable to my ear shape. 

Es3 were my favorite until the zs10. Very interested to see how these 2 10 driver ears differ.


----------



## b3vcard

Preordered the AS10 at 49 dollars, so I am happy with that. Hopefully they give a noticeable upgrade to my ZS10 Colourfuls! Support said they will be shipped in roughly two weeks.


----------



## hiflofi

Welp a couple of posts ago I thought the KZ AS10 hype didn't exist. Looks like you're all jumping in. Thanks for guinea pigging and testing it out for the rest of us. I'll wait for the next sale (probably after BA10 releases) to see which of the AS10/BA10 is worth getting.


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

b3vcard said:


> Preordered the AS10 at 49 dollars, so I am happy with that. Hopefully they give a noticeable upgrade to my ZS10 Colourfuls! Support said they will be shipped in roughly two weeks.


How did you get it down to $49? Even with store coupons, the lowest I'm seeing is $59.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Welp a couple of posts ago I thought the KZ AS10 hype didn't exist. Looks like you're all jumping in. Thanks for guinea pigging and testing it out for the rest of us. I'll wait for the next sale (probably after BA10 releases) to see which of the AS10/BA10 is worth getting.



Agreed, this happens with every new KZ release. It will be fireside prices for 11.11, which is only a few months away.


----------



## CoiL (Jul 31, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Welp a couple of posts ago I thought the KZ AS10 hype didn't exist. Looks like you're all jumping in. Thanks for guinea pigging and testing it out for the rest of us. I'll wait for the next sale (probably after BA10 releases) to see which of the AS10/BA10 is worth getting.


Second that.

Like I`ve said before, if KZ price goes over 50$, I`m relly sceptical about QC/SQ level against near 100$ IEMs. I mean - add only 30-40 bucks and You get already IT01 which is another level over all the KZs I`ve tried yet.


----------



## fatality_strykes

Slater said:


> Agreed, this happens with every new KZ release. It will be fireside prices for 11.11, which is only a few months away.



Is the sale actually that good? It'll be my first. I'm picking up the ZSR now but I wouldnt mind adding a DAC during the sale as well.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

fatality_strykes said:


> Is the sale actually that good? It'll be my first. I'm picking up the ZSR now but I wouldnt mind adding a DAC during the sale as well.



11.11 is the single biggest global sale of any ecommerce site, including Amazon. So yeah, the prices are that good.

Keep in mind that sellers set the prices, so they vary between sellers. Some offer coupons, while others don’t.

And unfortunately, I haven’t mastered the skill of predicting the future, so I don’t know what the KZ prices will be. You just have to wait and see what the prices are, and then play their little coupon games and jump through all of the hoops to get the best deals. But you can clean up if you do it right


----------



## fatality_strykes

Sorry I'm not well versed with shopping online. I thought Black Friday and Cyber Monday had the best sales. We dont have amazon where I'm from so...

I'll keep an eye out on the threads for the best deal during the month. Thanks.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

fatality_strykes said:


> Sorry I'm not well versed with shopping online. I thought Black Friday and Cyber Monday had the best sales. We dont have amazon where I'm from so...
> 
> I'll keep an eye out on the threads for the best deal during the month. Thanks.



11.11 was invented by Alibaba. It’s basically their version of Black Friday. But they are now bigger than Amazon and eBay COMBINED.

So yeah, they are a force to be reckoned with, and 11.11 is no joke.

This explains it all if you’re interested (pretty cool stuff, and Alibaba is a good stock if you got in early is IPO):

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarandipkaur/2017/11/08/1111-everything-to-know-about-singles-day/amp/


----------



## fatality_strykes (Jul 31, 2018)

Slater said:


> https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarandipkaur/2017/11/08/1111-everything-to-know-about-singles-day/amp/



Thanks that was an interesting read. Thanks. I was always skeptical about aliexpress products. The only other chinese product that was recommended to me via reddit was my Rubik's cube.

Sorry didnt see the IPO part. I've just started earning. So I've not looked into Stock investments. I'll require a lot of research before getting into it.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jul 31, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Second that.
> 
> Like I`ve said before, if KZ price goes over 50$, I`m relly sceptical about QC/SQ level against near 100$ IEMs. I mean - add only 30-40 bucks and You get already IT01 which is another level over all the KZs I`ve tried yet.



Plus, for around 100 bux, lots more DIY IEMs from china like Skald to consider (their 4BAs were quite good). That being said, its not really a small gap, especially if you don't purchase IEMs nilly-willy.


seems the price direct from KZ would be around 60 bux (supposedly pre-order phase, delivery on the 13th of August):

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...1045371&scene=taobao_shop&skuId=3762264057340


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

fatality_strykes said:


> Thanks that was an interesting read. Thanks. I was always skeptical about aliexpress products. The only other chinese product that was recommended to me via reddit was my Rubik's cube.



Aliexpress is legit, and I get 75% of my overall ecommerce stuff from them. Just keep in mind they are like eBay - Aliexpress is just a marketplace “framework”, and individual sellers. The sellers manage their inventory, shipping, etc. And just like any seller, some are better than others.

BTW, I’ve gotten a number of speed cubes from AE


----------



## hakuzen

kz listens to popular opinion once again. that's good.
people complaint about treble peaks of zs6 and zs5 v2, many wanted more bass (although i like zs6's bass as it is), and some wanted forwarder mids.
all the new wave (zsr, zs10, zsa, es4, ed16) seem to have boosted bass (sub-bass in some cases, ed16 and es4, which is more bearable than mid-bass boost) , and highs roll-off (too much for my preferred signature). those with boosted sub-bass also have forwarder mids, and they seem to be the most balanced in the pack.

now, we have to try to compensate that highs roll-off (if that's your preference).
using tips, wide bore flush silicone ones are the right way. i rarely find sibilance in ed16 after using them, can hear louder highs, and bass levels aren't so exaggerated.
the other method is equalizing. not tried yet, but hope that decent quality highs are there, because the BAs used for highs are the same than before.

ordered one of each to measure them and compare. only AS10 is to come, but i've only tried ed16 already.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Is there any way to verify the type of shipping used by an aliexpress store?  I ordered 2 KZ headphones from different store the same day and both said they use aliexpress shipping which should be 15-30 days.    One took 20 days to arrive, and the other one is coming on 40 days and still says it's "left home country."   I'm worried one store is lying to me.  Any way to verify?


----------



## hakuzen

Tunaa said:


> Im using phone and spotify.


then your smartphone is very probably the culprit of the distortion.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1630#post-13819958
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777918 (case 3, but also cases 2 and 1 possibly)


----------



## mbwilson111

SuperLuigi said:


> Is there any way to verify the type of shipping used by an aliexpress store?  I ordered 2 KZ headphones from different store the same day and both said they use aliexpress shipping which should be 15-30 days.    One took 20 days to arrive, and the other one is coming on 40 days and still says it's "left home country."   I'm worried one store is lying to me.  Any way to verify?



When that has happened to us, we still eventually get the item.  Sometimes when it says it has left it has not.   You just have to forget about it after you order or you will just be too stressed.  I have had things come in only five days or as long 5 or 6 weeks.  Sometimes with new products the item is not even in stock when we order.  I just don't think about it anymore.  You can message the seller.  Sometimes they give you a new tracking number which just means the first one was only given to make sure that ali did not cancel the order.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

SuperLuigi said:


> Is there any way to verify the type of shipping used by an aliexpress store?  I ordered 2 KZ headphones from different store the same day and both said they use aliexpress shipping which should be 15-30 days.    One took 20 days to arrive, and the other one is coming on 40 days and still says it's "left home country."   I'm worried one store is lying to me.  Any way to verify?



When you place an order, you specify the type of shipping used. There’s a drop down box with all of your options and prices.

So only you would know the answer. It was whatever you selected (and if you didn’t select any specific method, it would be whatever the seller defaulted to - which varies).

You can also figure it out by looking at the tracking number info (which Aliexpress tells you the carrier in the tracking number detail page).

I hope that all made sense!


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Every iem I try, I feel vocal and bass from right side and left side a little less in volume.

And this issue came to the new ES4 I ordered

What should I do


----------



## Makahl (Jul 31, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Every iem I try, I feel vocal and bass from right side and left side a little less in volume.
> 
> And this issue came to the new ES4 I ordered
> 
> What should I do



I'd check with an audiologist and proceed an audiometry exam just to be sure the problem isn't your hearing. I got an old amp called Meier Corda 3Move which has a channel imbalance and that was really annoying to figure out the problem was coming from the amp and not my hearing or iems. But every case is different.

Edir: Oh sorry, when I was reading it I skipped the "left side" part so I read only right side then I thought that was a channel imbalance problem.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> 11.11 was invented by Alibaba. It’s basically their version of Black Friday. But they are now bigger than Amazon and eBay COMBINED.
> 
> So yeah, they are a force to be reckoned with, and 11.11 is no joke.
> 
> ...


Nope, disagree. I have surfed through American sites, looking at tech and bushcraft equipment, and the discounts you guys get at times on some items on Amazon, Wal-Mart etc. dwarf the Singles' Day deals, which tend to be downright measly. There are no 50% discounts or larger in Aliexpress. In America there are.


----------



## Slater

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Every iem I try, I feel vocal and bass from right side and left side a little less in volume.
> 
> And this issue came to the new ES4 I ordered
> 
> What should I do



Swap the channels by plugging in the 2-pin cable into the opposite earpieces. If the volume is still lower on left side it’s your ears. Maybe wax buildup.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2018)

randomnin said:


> Nope, disagree. I have surfed through American sites, looking at tech and bushcraft equipment, and the discounts you guys get at times on some items on Amazon, Wal-Mart etc. dwarf the Singles' Day deals, which tend to be downright measly. There are no 50% discounts or larger in Aliexpress. In America there are.



There’s more to pricing than the “% off”.

I’ve been in the fine jewelry business (off and on) for 30 years.

Pretty much every jewelry store in town all bought jewelry wholesale from the same suppliers at the same cost (depending on the market price of gold).

Let’s say we bought a gold chain for $100 (wholesale cost). Our competitors (traditionally shopping mall chains) bought the exact same chain for the same $100. But they had a 1000% markup on their “retail price”. But then they would advertise “70% off sale”, where they would sell the chain at a street price of $300.

Our store, on the other hand, marked up the chain 300% as our “everyday fair price” of $300. And we would have 20% off sales, making the street price of the gold chain $240.

But wait, our “measly” 20% wasn’t as good as our competitor’s 70% off, right? No, wrong. Our prices were more fair, despite the discount % being “smaller”.

So the products on Aliexpress are “cheap” to begin with. So a seller taking 10% off for 11.11 doesn’t seem that great, huh? Well, the same stuff on Amazon and eBay is almost always much higher. But wow, Amazon will have a flash sale for 50% off! What a great deal, right?

No, not when the Amazon “sale” price is still higher than the same thing on Aliexpress.

** _and yes, I know about overhead, distribution, customer service costs, etc. I am strictly giving an example of pricing/discounting._


----------



## Wiljen (Jul 31, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Every iem I try, I feel vocal and bass from right side and left side a little less in volume.
> 
> And this issue came to the new ES4 I ordered
> 
> What should I do




Try this simple test, put on a set of iems and listen - establish that you hear the imbalance, then switch the earpieces between left and right.  If the imbalance switches sides, it is in the device chain,  if the imbalance is still where it was to start with, it is your hearing and time to go see an audiologist.


----------



## HungryPanda

I was going to say check the balance level on your dap or phone


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> There’s more to pricing than the “% off”.
> 
> I’ve been in the fine jewelry business (off and on) for 30 years.
> 
> ...


My main data is on PCs and parts, which are expensive from China and don't get much better at 11.11. In the U.S. there are real discounts on PCs (for example, a few items from this recent ArsTechnica list, that go down 50%), going seriously below regular prices. Haven't seen these deals even in Europe.


----------



## Wiljen

I would say that most of the deep discounts you are seeing on the PC market in the US are closeouts where they are the end of a model run as tech dumping is very common before a new model comes out so retailers aren't left sitting on large stocks of older parts.   The difference may be in business model where European and Asian companies don't have a year's supply of product pre-built at any given time like a lot of American companies do.   When you have little stock, model changes are done with much less fanfare or need for the larger discounts to clean house.


----------



## Tunaa

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Every iem I try, I feel vocal and bass from right side and left side a little less in volume.
> 
> And this issue came to the new ES4 I ordered
> 
> What should I do


I have that issue too Left side is more loud and clear compare to right side KZ ZS6 ans ES4 Does not matter. I guess its because of my ears


----------



## CYoung234

Tunaa said:


> I have that issue too Left side is more loud and clear compare to right side KZ ZS6 ans ES4 Does not matter. I guess its because of my ears



Like another poster suggested, swap the earpieces left to right and right to left. Does the problem follow the earpieces, or is it your ears? If it is your ears, maybe your ears are different sizes, and you are getting a better seal on the left side?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

N


CYoung234 said:


> Like another poster suggested, swap the earpieces left to right and right to left. Does the problem follow the earpieces, or is it your ears? If it is your ears, maybe your ears are different sizes, and you are getting a better seal on the left side?


NO it doesnt. Only sometimes


----------



## Zerohour88

randomnin said:


> My main data is on PCs and parts, which are expensive from China and don't get much better at 11.11. In the U.S. there are real discounts on PCs (for example, a few items from this recent ArsTechnica list, that go down 50%), going seriously below regular prices. Haven't seen these deals even in Europe.



well, this is head-fi and not really a PC/tech forum? I buy quite a few stuff from both taobao and amazon/newegg(thanks to forwarders), and yes, PC stuff are more or less the same price usually, with amazon/newegg price-matching making it easier to get discount parts (rx480 for like 170 bux nearing the mining boom, phew). But discount on other kind of stuff, like IEMs are a lot better on taobao for Singles day.

granted, I'm pretty sure there are cheap PC stuff from taobao, I'm just too much of a chicken to buy them since the risk of getting a fake is too high.


----------



## Aparker2005

As10 ordered. They look great, and it's my first time using all BA driver ears. Pretty excited to test them


----------



## Makahl

KZ AS10 green real pics:



Spoiler
















Like ES4 they look better IRL than the digital pics.


----------



## HungryPanda

In Asia and Europe we only really want cutting edge pc stuff


----------



## dhruvmeena96

ES4 with star lines and eq solved the issue

China is relatively cheaper in PC parts. Taiwan too

I have titan V and threadripper and I live in India

@HungryPanda 

Europe is dAmm expensive


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ES4 with star lines and eq solved the issue
> 
> China is relatively cheaper in PC parts. Taiwan too
> 
> I have titan V and threadripper and I live in India



You are rich AF dude...


----------



## Fawzay (Aug 1, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> ES4 with star lines and eq solved the issue
> 
> China is relatively cheaper in PC parts. Taiwan too
> 
> ...



Oh Well come to Singapore, where everything is Ex....
I hope you use that Titan V for developing~


----------



## b3vcard

mathi8vadhanan said:


> How did you get it down to $49? Even with store coupons, the lowest I'm seeing is $59.



Go to Thephonograph.net and he has a code there to get it down to the sweetspot!


----------



## Tunaa

CYoung234 said:


> Like another poster suggested, swap the earpieces left to right and right to left. Does the problem follow the earpieces, or is it your ears? If it is your ears, maybe your ears are different sizes, and you are getting a better seal on the left side?


i guess because of my ears. I had otitis(ear issue)especially my right ear. And every my earphones has distortion(crackling, sizzling noise) on right side. But when i try the left side of earphone into my right ear than it happens again. Heck i cannot enjoy music


----------



## Wiljen

dhruvmeena96 said:


> N
> 
> NO it doesnt. Only sometimes



Sounds like you have more than one issue.  If swapping sides with the earpieces and the imbalance follows the earpiece it is something in your device chain that is causing a channel imbalance.  If you swap and it stays put sometimes, that is something in your personal (human) audio processing that is askew.


----------



## neo_styles

Checking back in after spending about a couple weeks with the ZS6. When being played through my OnePlus 6 or Shanling M0, it's pretty easy for them to get a little hot on certain tracks. However, my Sony NW-A45 showed up yesterday and I've realized just how much less bright the ZS6 became. Compared to the consumer-ish sound of the OP6 and the surprisingly well-detailed (and powerful) M0, the A45 is warm, warm, warm. I've just come to the conclusion that not only is the ZS6 really tip-dependent, but it's also very particular about which source is being used. That being said, the ZS6 and A45 makes a stellar combo, though not nearly as revealing as the ZS6 paired to the M0.

At this point, all of my KZ IEMs have gone through 1More's burn-in, so I feel it's pretty adequate judging how each pair sounds. The ZS10 have been tossed; I just couldn't get them to sound up to the bar set by the ES4, ED16, or ZS6. Couldn't even really call it a "Jack of all trades, master of none." Listening is subjective, though, so someone might find them just right, but I couldn't.

The ZS6 have taken over as my DDs due to the following reasons:
1. Comfort. I was skeptical that I'd enjoy wearing these as much as I have, but they're probably the most comfortable in my ears of all my KZ pairs. The stock cable is hot garbage, IMO, and I've found myself using the 2-pin braided cable that came with my Noble X since it slides right into the recessed pin cup of the ZS6's earpieces. KZ's brown cable would dislodge easily, even with minimal movement. The silver cable is a happy medium.
2. Sense of space. Having a signature that focuses on giving everything an adequate sense of space is addictive. I don't mind the more intimate sound of the ES4, but I can definitely notice the difference in stage width and depth between the two. As far as height is concerned, the ZS6 sounds only marginally taller.
3. Sound signature. Obviously, these will have a pretty defined V-shaped sound signature, but the way it seems to only give a slight elevation up top and below keeps things detailed and that's something I can admire. It definitely helps give a sense of energy to my music that the ES4 and ED16 didn't really provide for me. The ED16 is close, but not quite there.

If I were to rank my preference for each pair (and which I'd grab more than the other), it would be ZS6 - ED16 - ES4 - (ZS10). Can't say anything about the ZSA since it hasn't been delivered, but I'll give impressions when I can.


----------



## Voxis9292

So today my KZ ES4, ZS3 & ATE arrived ... took them just about 5 years (cough).

The ZS3 is a real bass-monster (not my kind of iem) but also some harsh heights? Or is it just my imagination ... ?!

The ES4 is somewhat louder on the right side (maybe the cable) will check it later ... the zs3 cable should fit, right?

The ATE is surprisingly my favorite so far ... 

I'll try them some more later


----------



## mikp

Got one kz aptx cable, kz balanced and trn balanced cable.

The trn cables fit both my zs3 and es4, but the kz cable only fitted the es4, so had to cut it to also fit the zs3.  Why the different cables with kz?

The kz aptx is rubbish compared to the trn bluetooth, it cuts out after 3-4 meter with line of sight and dap in shirt pocket it also cuts out so im disputing that one.


----------



## tripside (Aug 1, 2018)

Received the new KZ bluetooth upgrade cable that supports APT-X today. The led flashes blue when I switch it on but I can't discover it on any of my devices - iPhone 7, Macbook Pro, 2 android phones and Amazon Echo speaker.I've tried switching it on and off so many times to no avail. Any suggestions?

Also got KZ ED16. Its sound alright. A little bit of sibilance does creep in though.

update : just realised that the user needs to press and hold the play button when powering it on. This way the cable will enter into pairing mode. 

How can confirm I that cable supports AAC codec while streaming from an iPhone?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Voxis9292 said:


> So today my KZ ES4, ZS3 & ATE arrived ... took them just about 5 years (cough).
> 
> The ZS3 is a real bass-monster (not my kind of iem) but also some harsh heights? Or is it just my imagination ... ?!
> 
> ...


I have same issue with new pair


----------



## Miki811

Hey guys, just an update. I held off buying the type c cable.

I'm quite confused with my ZS3. This is the first one before I bought the ES4, but I'm regularly switching back to ear for easy listening. However, though a lot are saying that these are bass-heavy, I can't really feel it on mine. My ES4 has more bass, regardless of the tips used. Also, I'm experiencing a lot of driver flex and always get some kind of either trapped air or a vacuum-tight seal with silicons, as if there are no vents. Foams significantly reduce driver flex, but still, the bass isn't there. Is the ZS3 naturally lacking in bass? Compared to the ES4, I'd say yes, but compared to other reviewers, I think I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## Miki811

Voxis9292 said:


> So today my KZ ES4, ZS3 & ATE arrived ... took them just about 5 years (cough).
> 
> The ZS3 is a real bass-monster (not my kind of iem) but also some harsh heights? Or is it just my imagination ... ?!
> 
> ...


I have both ES4 and ZS3 and find that ES4 has more bass than ZS3. Are you hearing the same? I'm personally feeling a lack of bass on my ZS3, or I'm looking at it the wrong way.


----------



## Voxis9292

Miki811 said:


> I have both ES4 and ZS3 and find that ES4 has more bass than ZS3. Are you hearing the same? I'm personally feeling a lack of bass on my ZS3, or I'm looking at it the wrong way.



I'll test it later could also be a faulty cable~


----------



## Miki811

Voxis9292 said:


> I'll test it later could also be a faulty cable~


I don't think it's the cable. I have both stock and silver, both sounds the same on both sides, so I don't think mine's defective.


----------



## Voxis9292

Miki811 said:


> I don't think it's the cable. I have both stock and silver, both sounds the same on both sides, so I don't think mine's defective.



Like i said my right side sounds louder than the left one ... i'll just test it with my different cables


----------



## Miki811

Voxis9292 said:


> Like i said my right side sounds louder than the left one ... i'll just test it with my different cables


Ohh, sorry, I thought you were saying that mine was the faulty one. Lol!


----------



## Slater

Miki811 said:


> I don't think it's the cable. I have both stock and silver, both sounds the same on both sides, so I don't think mine's defective.



The cable could be out of phase (or the internal wiring to the driver and/or jack). That will cause a lack of bass.

It could also be a crushed sound tube, which would definitely affect the sound. That is a known problem on the ZS3, although mainly when they 1st released it. But it still does happen from time to time, as I have seen a few people report it somewhat recently. You'd have to open up the ZS3 to check though.


----------



## Miki811

Slater said:


> The cable could be out of phase (or the internal wiring to the driver and/or jack). That will cause a lack of bass.
> 
> It could also be a crushed sound tube, which would definitely affect the sound. That is a known problem on the ZS3, although mainly when they 1st released it. But it still does happen from time to time, as I have seen a few people report it somewhat recently. You'd have to open up the ZS3 to check though.



Not sure about the out of phase thing. However, I did try out your mod and saw that the sound tube doesn't seem to be crushed when looking into the tube. I reverted the mod since I felt more lack in bass. It was mentioned in thephonograph review that these lack sub-bass rumble. Is that the one? If so, I'm still hard in accepting that ES4 has more on both attack and rumble on the bass lol


----------



## Miki811

Just tried out those in-phase out-of-phase stuff and seems to be correct since I'm hearing the sound's location basically the same on both ES4 and ZS3


----------



## Slater

Miki811 said:


> Not sure about the out of phase thing. However, I did try out your mod and saw that the sound tube doesn't seem to be crushed when looking into the tube. I reverted the mod since I felt more lack in bass. It was mentioned in thephonograph review that these lack sub-bass rumble. Is that the one? If so, I'm still hard in accepting that ES4 has more on both attack and rumble on the bass lol



Well, keep in mind that a lot of energy is lost in that long "sound tube" if you could call it that (which is nothing more than a section of heat shrink tubing).


----------



## anindyameister (Aug 1, 2018)

tripside said:


> Received the new KZ bluetooth upgrade cable that supports APT-X today. The led flashes blue when I switch it on but I can't discover it on any of my devices - iPhone 7, Macbook Pro, 2 android phones and Amazon Echo speaker.I've tried switching it on and off so many times to no avail. Any suggestions?
> 
> Also got KZ ED16. Its sound alright. A little bit of sibilance does creep in though.
> 
> ...


It does support AAC and AAC-LC, as seen in this hcidump output, for the "A pin" one I got.

```
$ sudo hcidump avdtp
HCI sniffer - Bluetooth packet analyzer ver 5.44
device: hci0 snap_len: 1500 filter: 0x400
< AVDTP(s): Discover cmd: transaction 0 nsp 0x00
> AVDTP(s): Discover rsp: transaction 0 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 5 - Audio Sink
    ACP SEID 3 - Audio Sink
    ACP SEID 4 - Audio Sink
    ACP SEID 1 - Audio Sink
< AVDTP(s): Capabilities cmd: transaction 1 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 5
> AVDTP(s): Capabilities rsp: transaction 1 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (aptX)
      16kHz 32kHz 44.1kHz 48kHz
      Stereo
    Content Protection
      02 00
< AVDTP(s): Capabilities cmd: transaction 2 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 3
> AVDTP(s): Capabilities rsp: transaction 2 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - MPEG-2,4 AAC
      MPEG-2 AAC LC MPEG-4 AAC LC
      8kHz 11.025kHz 12kHz 16kHz 22.05kHz 24kHz 32kHz 44.1kHz 48kHz
      1 2 Channels
      320000bps VBR
    Content Protection
      02 00
< AVDTP(s): Capabilities cmd: transaction 3 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 4
> AVDTP(s): Capabilities rsp: transaction 3 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - non-A2DP (Unknown)
      03 23
< AVDTP(s): Capabilities cmd: transaction 4 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
> AVDTP(s): Capabilities rsp: transaction 4 nsp 0x00
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - SBC
      16kHz 32kHz 44.1kHz 48kHz
      Mono DualChannel Stereo JointStereo
      4 8 12 16 Blocks
      4 8 Subbands
      SNR Loudness
      Bitpool Range 2-53
    Content Protection
      02 00
< AVDTP(s): Set config cmd: transaction 5 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1 - INT SEID 1
    Media Transport
    Media Codec - SBC
      44.1kHz
      JointStereo
      16 Blocks
      8 Subbands
      Loudness
      Bitpool Range 2-53
> AVDTP(s): Set config rsp: transaction 5 nsp 0x00
< AVDTP(s): Open cmd: transaction 6 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
> AVDTP(s): Open rsp: transaction 6 nsp 0x00
< AVDTP(s): Close cmd: transaction 7 nsp 0x00
    ACP SEID 1
> AVDTP(s): Close rsp: transaction 7 nsp 0x00
device: disconnected
```

You could also check your mac console.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...ptx-discrete-dac.850675/page-25#post-14077980


----------



## Miki811

Slater said:


> Well, keep in mind that a lot of energy is lost in that long "sound tube" if you could call it that (which is nothing more than a section of heat shrink tubing).


Yeah, probably lost along the way. I just redid your mod but instead of pulling the foam out, I pushed it way back to where the driver is located. Looks like the bass came out abit more, but still not that much. ES4 is still leagues away. I'm actually tempted to buy another one just in case. I know I'm not a basshead, but I really find it weird that what sounds like a bassy ZS3 to others doesn't sound bassy for me.


----------



## Voxis9292

Miki811 said:


> I have both ES4 and ZS3 and find that ES4 has more bass than ZS3. Are you hearing the same? I'm personally feeling a lack of bass on my ZS3, or I'm looking at it the wrong way.


So I changed the cables. The ES4 has a bit more bass than the ZS3 but somewhat recessed highs. 

Nearly can't hear the cymbals at this song (with ES4):


----------



## Voxis9292

Just did the @Slater mod on the ZS3 ... damn what a improvement! Thanks a LOT!


----------



## mbwilson111

I need a @Slater mod on my ZST.  A bit harsh sounding.


----------



## Slater (Aug 1, 2018)

Voxis9292 said:


> Just did the @Slater mod on the ZS3 ... damn what a improvement! Thanks a LOT!



No problem friend. I can't stand to listen to a ZS3 with the foam still in place. It feels like there's cotton balls plugging up my ears.

In fact, whenever I see similar foam plugs - Meizu EP52, BlitzWolf ES1, Xiaomi Piston Fresh, etc - I always take the foam plug out. And it always improves the sound!



mbwilson111 said:


> I need a @Slater mod on my ZST.  A bit harsh sounding.



That one is super easy as well, and gets rid of all the BA driver's shrill harshness and sssssibilancccccce. Just need a small piece of foam from a KZ case, steady hands, and really good eyes (or a magnifying glass)!


----------



## Makahl

Also, if you don't want to risk to damage the metal grill, comply tips with the wax guard or place the classic micropore tape over the nozzle before you mount the tip works great for taming highs on KZ ZST/ZS6 imo. But since Comply tips are expensive in my country, the micropore tape is my main choice.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Voxis9292 said:


> So I changed the cables. The ES4 has a bit more bass than the ZS3 but somewhat recessed highs.
> 
> Nearly can't hear the cymbals at this song (with ES4):




The ES4 is crap for things like Parkway Drive. Bands like Trivium, As I Lay Dying or anything remotely complex get congested really fast and have no details. I've said this before, but people kept praising them saying how awesome they are, so I got a second pair thinking maybe I got a defective one. It's the same thing. They might sound OK with a slow fiddle lullaby but trow anything more complex at them and they're mediocre at best.


----------



## Voxis9292

HerrXRDS said:


> The ES4 is crap for things like Parkway Drive. Bands like Trivium, As I Lay Dying or anything remotely complex get congested really fast and have no details. I've said this before, but people kept praising them saying how awesome they are, so I got a second pair thinking maybe I got a defective one. It's the same thing. They might sound OK with a slow fiddle lullaby but trow anything more complex at them and they're mediocre at best.



Is there any KZ Earphone which is better at these bands? The ZS6 because of better treble?

I don't listen to metal all the time but when I do I want more details, which I get without any issue on my King Pro (but it's not fair comparing them)


----------



## BrunoC

Man...... After some days with ED16, which some folks consider the best KZ IEM I returned to the ZS5 v1 and ZS6 and I must say... There's no contest, the most enjoybable KZ's for me are those.

The clarity, separation and soundstage of the ZS5 v1 remains unbeatable for me, in terms of KZ's. The ZS6 has a bit less soundstage but a more powerfull bass and mids.
These 2 IEMs are the best KZ's gems IMO.


----------



## chi-fi mel

HerrXRDS said:


> The ES4 is crap for things like Parkway Drive. Bands like Trivium, As I Lay Dying or anything remotely complex get congested really fast and have no details. I've said this before, but people kept praising them saying how awesome they are, so I got a second pair thinking maybe I got a defective one. It's the same thing. They might sound OK with a slow fiddle lullaby but trow anything more complex at them and they're mediocre at best.


So many mentions of the ZS3 lately, one of KZ's weakest products. The Slater mod is a big upgrade, but hardly saves it.


----------



## nxnje

Nowadays would u still recommend buying a KZ ZS5 v2?
How does it compare with the newest kz line?


----------



## Returnity

Well I'm  fairly new to Chi-fi but have experience in premium IEM's. Lately I've been looking for an IEM with a fun sound which I can use in workout, beach or when going to sleep and which I can substitute for my Campfire Andromeda. 

I went with ED16 and I was positively shocked. Great bass with enough rumble and speed, allright mids, but a little piercing highs which can be attenuated with foam tips! Soundstage is OK, detail retrieval and resolution is amazing for the price. I'm really loving them and when I use them, I don't miss my Andromeda "too much". Obviously it would be unfair to compare those. 

Anyway, I liked them so much that I'm contemplating on ordering a spare pair. Or should I go for ES4 as well for variety? From what I read, their highs are not as piercing with more forward mids and bass.

I'm looking for a sound with more bass and mids, and less highs than ED16. Although ED16 is very good, ES4 sounds like something I might like as well. So I would appreciate any comments comparing ES4 vs ED16. Thanks in advance


----------



## Slater (Aug 2, 2018)

Returnity said:


> Well I'm  fairly new to Chi-fi but have experience in premium IEM's. Lately I've been looking for an IEM with a fun sound which I can use in workout, beach or when going to sleep and which I can substitute for my Campfire Andromeda.
> 
> I went with ED16 and I was positively shocked. Great bass with enough rumble and speed, allright mids, but a little piercing highs which can be attenuated with foam tips! Soundstage is OK, detail retrieval and resolution is amazing for the price. I'm really loving them and when I use them, I don't miss my Andromeda "too much". Obviously it would be unfair to compare those.
> 
> ...



ZSR is what I would recommend.

Read reviews here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/reviews


----------



## loomisjohnson

Returnity said:


> Well I'm  fairly new to Chi-fi but have experience in premium IEM's. Lately I've been looking for an IEM with a fun sound which I can use in workout, beach or when going to sleep and which I can substitute for my Campfire Andromeda.
> 
> I went with ED16 and I was positively shocked. Great bass with enough rumble and speed, allright mids, but a little piercing highs which can be attenuated with foam tips! Soundstage is OK, detail retrieval and resolution is amazing for the price. I'm really loving them and when I use them, I don't miss my Andromeda "too much". Obviously it would be unfair to compare those.
> 
> ...


i agree with slater that the zsr is vg, but it's signature is basically the same as the ed16--for knocking about or sleeping, i'd get the hds3, which will cost you a grand total of $7 or so--it's a tiny form with a fun sound


----------



## Wiljen

Returnity said:


> Well I'm  fairly new to Chi-fi but have experience in premium IEM's. Lately I've been looking for an IEM with a fun sound which I can use in workout, beach or when going to sleep and which I can substitute for my Campfire Andromeda.
> 
> I went with ED16 and I was positively shocked. Great bass with enough rumble and speed, allright mids, but a little piercing highs which can be attenuated with foam tips! Soundstage is OK, detail retrieval and resolution is amazing for the price. I'm really loving them and when I use them, I don't miss my Andromeda "too much". Obviously it would be unfair to compare those.
> 
> ...




In all fairness, I am not surprised that the highs were a bit forward compared to the Andromeda as Ken (Campfire) leans heavily toward a more laid back signature that avoids sibilance at all costs. Comparatively, almost everything else is treble forward when a Campfire product is your reference point.


----------



## Returnity

Wiljen said:


> In all fairness, I am not surprised that the highs were a bit forward compared to the Andromeda as Ken (Campfire) leans heavily toward a more laid back signature that avoids sibilance at all costs. Comparatively, almost everything else is treble forward when a Campfire product is your reference point.



Actually I'm looking for something like a cheapo Vega or Atlas with a fun sound, as opposed to an Andro. 

One of Andro's stronger points is their tasteful highs which I adore. As you see normally I love highs but KZ's are too piercing so I'm after a "tamed KZ treble". Foam tips definitely help with ED16 but the highs still sound too artificial compared to its well-tuned bass and midrange. So I thought maybe ES4 (more B and M, less T) is what I'm looking for and asked for comments comparing ED16 vs ES4.


----------



## TJK81

You will be very pleased with ES4. Buy Spiral dots or Spinfits tips (these works best with ES4... IMO) and you will be surprised how good they can be... Of course for the price point. They definitely can not match your Andromedas


----------



## maxxevv

If that's the case, you may like the ZS10 signature. 
The held back treble is what sets it apart from the ZS5/ZS6 that I also have. 
Bonus being that they don't exhibit the sibilance issues plaguing the ZS5/6 and to a lesser extent the EF16 which I also have.


----------



## C2thew

chi-fi mel said:


> So many mentions of the ZS3 lately, one of KZ's weakest products. The Slater mod is a big upgrade, but hardly saves it.



What?!?  The ZS3 is a solid performing IEM.  It is single handedly one of the most ergonomic and passive noise cancelling IEMS that KZ makes.  The ZS3's shells are the perfect shells for my ears.  It's like a ear plug and iem at the same time.


----------



## Leo-rume

C2thew said:


> What?!?  The ZS3 is a solid performing IEM.  It is single handedly one of the most ergonomic and passive noise cancelling IEMS that KZ makes.  The ZS3's shells are the perfect shells for my ears.  It's like a ear plug and iem at the same time.


I completely agree with this, but what I've come to observe about the ZS3's shell and fitting is that it's very much a case of hit or miss, You either love it or really hate it, there's hardly any in betweens, depending on the shape of your ears and canals. For me, it was a perfect marriage. Others, not so much. And sound wise, I find them to be really really good, with very decent bass with nothing too harsh in the high regions. I did the slater mod, it did improve detail and clarity, by a lot too, but I had to revert back to default. I just couldn't accept the little amount of bass sacrificed, not that it was that obvious or anything, No, I think it was partly psychological. The thought that I was shortchanging myself a little bit in the bass department, but then again you could say I was shortchanging myself in terms of clarity by reverting back but priorities, priorities, priorities


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> i agree with slater that the zsr is vg, but it's signature is basically the same as the ed16--for knocking about or sleeping, i'd get the hds3, which will cost you a grand total of $7 or so--it's a tiny form with a fun sound



Ah, gotcha. I've never heard the ED16.

I do love me some HDS3 though


----------



## Wiljen

Returnity said:


> Actually I'm looking for something like a cheapo Vega or Atlas with a fun sound, as opposed to an Andro.
> 
> One of Andro's stronger points is their tasteful highs which I adore. As you see normally I love highs but KZ's are too piercing so I'm after a "tamed KZ treble". Foam tips definitely help with ED16 but the highs still sound too artificial compared to its well-tuned bass and midrange. So I thought maybe ES4 (more B and M, less T) is what I'm looking for and asked for comments comparing ED16 vs ES4.



ED16 is more detailed but ES4 is going to come closer to the treble you are looking for.  ES4 is probably split the difference between the Andro and ED16 in treble response.   If the ED16 is too hot for your liking, I'd avoid the Zs6 and ZsR as I think you will find them piercing.   The other option that might be worth giving a shot is the Zs10.  More detail than ES4 or ED16 and not a particularly hot treble either.


----------



## nihontoman

Got the new KZ cable and been listening for the last 3-4 hours with ZS5 V1. pretty good, was expecting to hear something wrong but nope. everything sounds fine and the volume is VERY high. sounds like there is an amplifier to be honest.

aptx works - checked with the note 8 and a thinkpad laptop. range is ok, but if you get far away, the signal from the phone is lost. the laptop seems to have more signal strength.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Sweet! AS10 is in Cincinnati. DHL is quick so I'm hoping they are delivered tomorrow pending Customs doesn't delay everything.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

B9Scrambler said:


> Sweet! AS10 is in Cincinnati. DHL is quick so I'm hoping they are delivered tomorrow pending Customs doesn't delay everything.



Wow, from which seller?


----------



## B9Scrambler

CardigdanWalk said:


> Wow, from which seller?



DD Audio. They're a sample though, so they sped up the shipping process. I'll be able to get some early impressions up for once, instead of being first to buy, last to receive and comment, lol.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Returnity said:


> Well I'm  fairly new to Chi-fi but have experience in premium IEM's. Lately I've been looking for an IEM with a fun sound which I can use in workout, beach or when going to sleep and which I can substitute for my Campfire Andromeda.
> 
> I went with ED16 and I was positively shocked. Great bass with enough rumble and speed, allright mids, but a little piercing highs which can be attenuated with foam tips! Soundstage is OK, detail retrieval and resolution is amazing for the price. I'm really loving them and when I use them, I don't miss my Andromeda "too much". Obviously it would be unfair to compare those.
> 
> ...



ES4 has more bass than ED16, a bit less sub and trebles, mediums sound very natural with voices and accoustic pianos.
You have to set whirl tips to inprove the sound cause too much bass, darkening the sound with stock starlines.
ED16 sounds better for me with long, medium bore tips triple flange. I tried foam tips without any good result.  
ES4 gives less detailed sound than ED16


----------



## Slater (Aug 2, 2018)

nihontoman said:


> Got the new KZ cable and been listening for the last 3-4 hours with ZS5 V1. pretty good, was expecting to hear something wrong but nope. everything sounds fine and the volume is VERY high. sounds like there is an amplifier to be honest.
> 
> aptx works - checked with the note 8 and a thinkpad laptop. range is ok, but if you get far away, the signal from the phone is lost. the laptop seems to have more signal strength.



So it's not as bad as the reports?

Perhaps the issues are device dependent, with some source devices having more connectivity issues vs others?

Also, can you define "far away"? 2 feet? 12 feet? 20 feet? What if the phone is in your back pocket, or some other obstacle in the way of line-of-sight? Some bluetooth gear starts flaking out with obstacles in the way (including your body).


----------



## randomnin

HerrXRDS said:


> The ES4 is crap for things like Parkway Drive. Bands like Trivium, As I Lay Dying or anything remotely complex get congested really fast and have no details. I've said this before, but people kept praising them saying how awesome they are, so I got a second pair thinking maybe I got a defective one. It's the same thing. They might sound OK with a slow fiddle lullaby but trow anything more complex at them and they're mediocre at best.


But no one usually tests gear with YouTube and its max audio bitrate of 128kbps on all video quality levels, right? Or is that enough to judge congestion related matters?


----------



## HerrXRDS

randomnin said:


> But no one usually tests gear with YouTube and its max audio bitrate of 128kbps on all video quality levels, right? Or is that enough to judge congestion related matters?



This is the bitrate I have that album at 









It doesn't matter anyway, that 128kbps Youtube video or 976kbps FLAC on my player, the ES4 handles them both like crap.This isn't some fine detail missing that only some higher bitrate can reproduce.


----------



## Danfish98

Voxis9292 said:


> Is there any KZ Earphone which is better at these bands? The ZS6 because of better treble?
> 
> I don't listen to metal all the time but when I do I want more details, which I get without any issue on my King Pro (but it's not fair comparing them)


I'm a big fan of the ZSA and I listen to a decent amount of metal. The treble is detailed but not as sibilent as the ZS5 or 6 and they're far more comfortable.


----------



## nihontoman

Slater said:


> So it's not as bad as the reports?
> 
> Perhaps the issues are device dependent, with some source devices having more connectivity issues vs others?
> 
> Also, can you define "far away"? 2 feet? 12 feet? 20 feet? What if the phone is in your back pocket, or some other obstacle in the way of line-of-sight? Some bluetooth gear starts flaking out with obstacles in the way (including your body).




 I haven't seen reports to be honest, so no I don't have any reference to that. what I heard is almost transparent (compared to iBasso dx50) sound, almost as loud and pretty much as visceral. it does cut out from time to time if I get away about 4-5 meters and my body blocks direct line from the phone to the earphones. the laptop has much stronger signal it seems  back pocket  i not a problem for me. it did cut out at some odd moments (without any apparent reason) when I started scrolling trough a facebook page for example, but it was one time thing and hope it won't repeat


----------



## alex5908

Wiljen said:


> If the ED16 is too hot for your liking, I'd avoid the Zs6 and ZsR as I think you will find them piercing. The other option that might be worth giving a shot is the Zs10. More detail than ES4 or ED16 and not a particularly hot treble either.


How about ED15?


----------



## Wiljen

alex5908 said:


> How about ED15?



Haven't tried it.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

HerrXRDS said:


> The ES4 is crap for things like Parkway Drive. Bands like Trivium, As I Lay Dying or anything remotely complex get congested really fast and have no details. I've said this before, but people kept praising them saying how awesome they are, so I got a second pair thinking maybe I got a defective one. It's the same thing. They might sound OK with a slow fiddle lullaby but trow anything more complex at them and they're mediocre at best.


its better on cymbal than zs3. i tried the song 8 times


plus everyone

actually i fixed my KZ ES4 by a huge margin. and some of my iem

i noticed that on the left earpiece, pressure relieving port was smaller than right(KZ ES4)...

i just used a needle and tried to widen the hole without puncturing the vent

spinfit cp240 was used

and viola

fixed

its not the problem with our ears, but the ability to find problem before blaming ourselves


----------



## DallaPo

Here is a review of me about the ES4. Sorry for the bad english, it's a Google translation from my review page, where you can find more reviews. The reviews are in German, but you can also translate them with a browser extension of Goolge.

https://david-hahn.wixsite.com/chi-fiear

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Intro
The ES4 is another upstart from the product wave 2018 of KZ. Externally, he is the little brother to the ZS10, the configuration of an evolution to ES3.
Sonically, he makes a more than solid figure, which currently makes him one of the better in-ears from Knowledge Zenith.


handling
The case corresponds to a small copy of the ZS10. You can see inside the driver board, as well as the two drivers (DD & BA).
Its small size to the ZS10 also increases the wearing comfort. In addition, the Es4 are closed in contrast to the ZS6 and the ZSA, whereby the insulation to the outside and inside are also in a very good range.
The removable cable is the same as the ZS10, where only the memory wire is easy to criticize.


sound
Not only by the same design, but also the relatively same release to ZS10 leaves a comparison to, albeit with much less driver in the luggage.
But that does not always mean something, was already the TRN V10 (4) - FLOP to TRN V20 (2) - TOP.

The bass seems to be reproduced by the same driver as in the ZS10, which makes little difference from the good definition and resolution. Nevertheless, he is still a bit more accented and thus delivers even deeper sub- and punchier basses, but which also easily slip through the middle and thus in rare cases, deeper male voices can sound a bit unnatural, or act now and then too energetic.

The mids are not as strong taken back as the ZS10 and go neatly forward, with a nice warm body, as well as clear and detailed. At very high volumes, the higher mids can be a bit too hard and therefore exhausting.

The heights are quite bright and have a very good level of detail. The stage is with width and depth in the upscale area and the separation more than neat.


Outro
The ES4 are something like the everybody's darling of KZ. The sound signature will appeal to many, including me, and will appeal to people with a higher musicianship. If the mids of the ZS10 were too pale, here is an in-ear with driving basses and mids (at high volumes something much of the good), as well as great dynamics, as well as an upgrade to the ES3 and ZST!


----------



## CYoung234

BrunoC said:


> Man...... After some days with ED16, which some folks consider the best KZ IEM I returned to the ZS5 v1 and ZS6 and I must say... There's no contest, the most enjoybable KZ's for me are those.
> 
> The clarity, separation and soundstage of the ZS5 v1 remains unbeatable for me, in terms of KZ's. The ZS6 has a bit less soundstage but a more powerfull bass and mids.
> These 2 IEMs are the best KZ's gems IMO.


Nice. I have all three of these plus the ZS10. I like them all, but for sheer listening pleasure, I prefer the ZS10 to any of the others. THe ZS6 and ED16 are close. The ZS5 for me comes in last. But I am 64 years old and have some HF hearing loss, so your mileage will vary!


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> its better on cymbal than zs3. i tried the song 8 times
> 
> 
> plus everyone
> ...


ah i think i have the same problem i will also try this fix thanks


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CYoung234 said:


> Nice. I have all three of these plus the ZS10. I like them all, but for sheer listening pleasure, I prefer the ZS10 to any of the others. THe ZS6 and ED16 are close. The ZS5 for me comes in last. But I am 64 years old and have some HF hearing loss, so your mileage will vary!


Your name is young.....you are not that old buddy...

You have other 1000years to live


----------



## CYoung234

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Your name is young.....you are not that old buddy...
> 
> You have other 1000years to live



Haha. Thanks. I don't feel old - the years just catch up with you after a while!


----------



## B9Scrambler




----------



## Rodrigo

jeromeaparis said:


> ES4 has more bass than ED16, a bit less sub and trebles, mediums sound very natural with voices and accoustic pianos.
> You have to set whirl tips to inprove the sound cause too much bass, darkening the sound with stock starlines.
> ED16 sounds better for me with long, medium bore tips triple flange. I tried foam tips without any good result.
> ES4 gives less detailed sound than ED16


I have only ed16, I would definitely like more of es4, for me ed16 lacks mid-bass and the highs are very brilahnte, I do not mind having less sub-bass, I wanted to get a more refined version of that es4.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

B9Scrambler said:


>



Holds breathe in anticipation ...

(Or rather holds credit card at the ready)


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

b3vcard said:


> Go to Thephonograph.net and he has a code there to get it down to the sweetspot!


Thanks, I was able to get it down to $45 with the 'FACEBOOK' code.
What is the first impression @B9Scrambler ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Thanks, I was able to get it down to $45 with the 'FACEBOOK' code.
> What is the first impression @B9Scrambler ?



I'll be posting that later. Making sure I get in lots of listening time first.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Tease!


----------



## Slater

Does anyone know what ever happened with this mysterious KZ E50 model?



It looks awesome. Was it an internal R&D model that failed and hence was abandoned? Is it something they are planning to release at a future date? A big mystery...


----------



## jant71 (Aug 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> Does anyone know what ever happened with this mysterious KZ E50 model?



A cease and desist letter from AT's lawyers perhaps??


----------



## B9Scrambler

BadReligionPunk said:


> Tease!



Nope. Early excitement can lead to unintentionally positive or negative first impressions.


----------



## pbui44 (Aug 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> Does anyone know what ever happened with this mysterious KZ E50 model?
> 
> 
> 
> It looks awesome. Was it an internal R&D model that failed and hence was abandoned? Is it something they are planning to release at a future date? A big mystery...



You probably need an a**-tight production area to create the push-pull drivers.  Any less tight would yield serious QC problems.  I mean look at the photo: the left earpiece has the KZ emblem upside-down!


----------



## Slater

jant71 said:


> A cease and desist letter from AT's lawyers perhaps??



I thought about that, but that certainly didn’t stop KZ from making the ATE/ATR. That was such a blantant AT ripoff, they probably reused the same injection molds!

I mean, even the model name KZ went with - ATE and ATR - was probably meant as a slap in the face to Audio Technica (since KZ was started by ex-AT people).


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> I mean, even the model name KZ went with - ATE and ATR - was probably meant as a slap in the face to Audio Technica (since KZ was started by ex-AT people).



Those guys should have negotiated shipments of Japanese instant noodles during the cheaper production line moves to China. *** it, move the KZ production to Thailand for better instant noodles and get your MAMA-and-egg eatin’ on!  

Oh s**t, I forgot that Sony moved their cheaper production lines to Thailand.


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> its better on cymbal than zs3. i tried the song 8 times
> 
> 
> plus everyone
> ...


i tried this now and yeah now the left right issue is solved now for my RNF 
it created a vaccum like suction on left due to less open front vent i did widen it a little and now that pressure is relived now


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Does anyone know what ever happened with this mysterious KZ E50 model?



I am still waiting for this one ... I wonder if it is still in the plans for release






You know I want it for the color


----------



## Makahl

mbwilson111 said:


> I am still waiting for this one ... I wonder if it is still in the plans for release
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought this model was the ES4's prototype. At least the shape is identical but who knows...


----------



## mbwilson111

Makahl said:


> I thought this model was the ES4's prototype. At least the shape is identical but who knows...



Oh, I hope that is not true.  I wonder if anyone knows for sure.  I was really looking forward to the bright purple.  This photo does not show all the same inner parts that you can see when you look at an ES4.


----------



## MDH12AX7 (Aug 4, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Oh, I hope that is not true.  I wonder if anyone knows for sure.  I was really looking forward to the bright purple.  This photo does not show all the same inner parts that you can see when you look at an ES4.


@mbwilson111
These are all over Alie Express right now. Maybe they can satisfy your need for purple...


----------



## mbwilson111

MDH12AX7 said:


> @mbwilson111
> These are all over Alie Express right now. Maybe they can satisfy your need for purple.



Those look cool but I am not interested in bluetooth at all.  I have no need for it.  As for the purple, I really did want that bright looking one that I though KZ was putting out but now I  have doubts.

I do have one really nice purple iem though... it is a darker classy purple and looks great with the cable I  have on it.

Hotfi HM9 - 6BA per side


----------



## CardigdanWalk

There is one KZ AS10 review up on the official KZ store. It doesn’t tell us much but at least has a photo.

  

Still torn about using the coupon code or holding out for the BS10, by wallet is saying AS10 but heart BS10.


----------



## Slater (Aug 4, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am still waiting for this one ... I wonder if it is still in the plans for release
> 
> 
> 
> You know I want it for the color



Well, so far KZ has been releasing the models in the order they appear on their 2018 release photo 'grid':



So I have a feeling your wait for the purple one in the bottom left is going to be over soon!



Makahl said:


> I thought this model was the ES4's prototype. At least the shape is identical but who knows...



That purple model is going to be a quad driver, which is different than the ES4 (triple driver). I admit it looks similar, but KZ has been using that 'guitar pick' shape (or one close to it) for numerous 2018 IEMs - ZS10, ES4, AS10, etc.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> That purple model is going to be a quad driver, which is different than the ES4 (triple driver). I admit it looks similar, but KZ has been using that 'guitar pick' shape for numerous 2018 IEMs - ZS10, ES4, AS10, etc.



According to the info on the phonograph site, both the ES4 and the purple (KZ YZ40)  are both hybrids with 1BA and 1DD in each earpiece.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> According to the info on the phonograph site, both the ES4 and the purple (KZ YZ40)  are both hybrids with 1BA and 1DD in each earpiece.



Ah yeah my bad. I forgot about KZ math (where 2 drivers is really 4 drivers) LOL.

Then it may be the same. Who knows, we will find out soon enough because that purple model is one coming up soon...


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> That purple model is going to be a quad driver, which is different than the ES4 (triple driver). I admit it looks similar, but KZ has been using that 'guitar pick' shape for numerous 2018 IEMs - ZS10, ES4, AS10, etc.



I hope you're right. But, design-wise ZS10 is bigger, AS10 remembers a lot 64 audio Tia universals shape and ES4 somehow is quite unique design. 

I've photoshopped both to make this comparison easier: 





Would be nice if someone from KZ had an account here to confirm it. I've been waiting for ZS4 news too but unfortunately, we just can wait lol.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> I hope you're right. But, design-wise ZS10 is bigger, AS10 remembers a lot 64 audio Tia universals shape and ES4 somehow is quite unique design.
> 
> I've photoshopped both to make this comparison easier:
> 
> ...



The ZS4 and the YZ63 are honestly the only 2 2018 KZ models that I am interested in. I mean, I love KZ and all, but I have enough IEMs to fill a UPS truck so I haven't been jumping on every new KZ model that comes down the pike.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Well ended up with over 200 hours on ZS10. Ended up rolling JVC spiral dots and using the silver/green cable. Using Cayin N5 I don't hear the upper mid hump anymore. Well if I concentrate on it I can hear it but its not overbearing or annoying anymore. Only took 3 months lol.


----------



## pbui44

BadReligionPunk said:


> Well ended up with over 200 hours on ZS10. Ended up rolling JVC spiral dots and using the silver/green cable. Using Cayin N5 I don't hear the upper mid hump anymore. Well if I concentrate on it I can hear it but its not overbearing or annoying anymore. Only took 3 months lol.



Yeah, it seems to take forever for the KZ multi-hybrids to neutralize and crossover properly.  Funny, I traded eartips with @loomisjohnson and now I think I have SpinFit CP100s for XS-S-M and just missing L size, which he probably has.


----------



## B9Scrambler

My early impressions of KZ's new five balanced armature earphone, the AS10; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/08/04/kz-as10-first-look/

  ​


----------



## Aparker2005

B9Scrambler said:


> My early impressions of KZ's new five balanced armature earphone, the AS10; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/08/04/kz-as10-first-look/
> 
> ​



Thanks for that  Can't wait to get mine in


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I want to ask how to fix the 2pin connector in my es4. It suddenly became loose

The left side


----------



## spyder25000

I've been using my ZSR's but not a fan of the comply's
What silicon eartips do you recommend for the ZSR?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

B9Scrambler said:


> My early impressions of KZ's new five balanced armature earphone, the AS10; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/08/04/kz-as10-first-look/
> 
> ​


So are they flat line-ish sounding? Are they warm or clinical? Anyway to compare sound to Havi B3pro1 as you mentioned wide stage. Havi is monsterous and has good up and down for a full 3d effect. For me Havi is/was the gold standard of under $50 iems. Would you rather have Havi or AS10 if you could only choose one?


----------



## Ukedone (Aug 5, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> My early impressions of KZ's new five balanced armature earphone, the AS10; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/08/04/kz-as10-first-look/
> 
> ​



Thanks for your impressions. They look quite promising! Could you please give a quick opinion regarding isolation? Are they vented?
The next request wouldn't be so quick but would be quite welcome: how do they compare with the IT01 and the B400?
Thanks!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Ukedone said:


> Thanks for your impressions. They look quite promising! Could you please give aaquicj opinion egarding isolation? Are they vented?
> The next request wouldn't be so quick but would be quite welcome: how do they compare with the IT01 and the B400?
> Thanks!



They are vented (probably to avoid the suction effect you often get with sealed iems, or maybe they're going to use the housing again on a hybrid?) so isolation isn't outstanding. Better than the ZS10 but not as good as other sealed BA only units. 

I haven't a/b'd them to the B400 but I'll be comparing them in my review. Don't have the IT01 and can't compare. Have read numerous comments that the TFZ Exclusive 5 is similarly tuned to the IT01 (in some comparisons they came out favorably) so I might give them a listen later.


----------



## B9Scrambler

BadReligionPunk said:


> So are they flat line-ish sounding? Are they warm or clinical? Anyway to compare sound to Havi B3pro1 as you mentioned wide stage. Havi is monsterous and has good up and down for a full 3d effect. For me Havi is/was the gold standard of under $50 iems. Would you rather have Havi or AS10 if you could only choose one?



If you've heard KZ hybrids you'll know what to expect, just replace the up and down nature of the tuning of the rest of the lineup with something even. Not clinical like the EarNiNE EN2J but not warm like the B400. B3 Pro I lacked sound stage depth to me, but had amazing width. Haven't used them in a while so I'm not sure how the AS10 will compare until I a/b.


----------



## pbui44

spyder25000 said:


> I've been using my ZSR's but not a fan of the comply's
> What silicon eartips do you recommend for the ZSR?



It looks like the KZ ZSR come with KZ starline eartips, like the ZS6, so I think the SpinFit CP100 will fit the KZ ZSR as well.


----------



## Rodrigo (Aug 5, 2018)

The interesting thing is that the KZ AS10 uses the same KZ S4 electronic board, maybe they use the ZS10's electronic board in the KZ BA10


----------



## nihontoman

update on the new bluetooth KZ cables:

they do cut out when wearing them outside and the phone is in my pockets. sometimes it os unbearable, sometimes they behave very well. took a lengthy walk yesterday and everything worked fine. but today, a 5 minute walk turned into a frustration trip :/ good thing is I bought them as a replacement to my dx50 which is cumbersome to use as a dac and cuts out if you look at it funny (usb connection is faulty i guess).


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

B9Scrambler said:


> My early impressions of KZ's new five balanced armature earphone, the AS10; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/08/04/kz-as10-first-look/
> 
> ​



Are you able to see the drivers through the gaps in faceplate.
Two of the drivers seem to be knowles and used is several other higher price products like Magaosi K5 etc. I wonder why they decided to go with opaque body and hide their drivers, rather than show it off like ZS10.


----------



## Voxis9292

dhruvmeena96 said:


> its better on cymbal than zs3. i tried the song 8 times
> 
> 
> plus everyone
> ...



Can you upload a pic of what you did widen?


----------



## acia

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Are you able to see the drivers through the gaps in faceplate.
> Two of the drivers seem to be knowles and used is several other higher price products like Magaosi K5 etc. I wonder why they decided to go with opaque body and hide their drivers, rather than show it off like ZS10.


at this price, you think it's going to be knowles?!


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

22955 & 30095 are Knowles.
22955 - http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/218/-532680.pdf
30095 - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...ng/WBFK-30095-000?qs=Q97emo0LRppk1/KuN5A0rw==


----------



## hiflofi

mathi8vadhanan said:


> 22955 & 30095 are Knowles.
> 22955 - http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/218/-532680.pdf
> 30095 - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Knowles-Johanson-Manufacturing/WBFK-30095-000?qs=Q97emo0LRppk1/KuN5A0rw==


How do you reckon KZ managed that?


----------



## fluteloop

pbui44 said:


> You probably need an a**-tight production area to create the push-pull drivers.  Any less tight would yield serious QC problems.  I mean look at the photo: the left earpiece has the KZ emblem upside-down!



it had push-pull drivers ?


----------



## fluteloop (Aug 6, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> How do you reckon KZ managed that?



Priced them accordingly ?? Buying in bulk. New contract?



Wiljen said:


> Try this simple test, put on a set of iems and listen - establish that you hear the imbalance, then switch the earpieces between left and right.  If the imbalance switches sides, it is in the device chain,  if the imbalance is still where it was to start with, it is your hearing and time to go see an audiologist.



or it's the Channel. i've had left and right channels go bad.,  it can also be one side reverse polarity.  if the hardware checks out all good with different cables, phones, you might have a wonky polarity in the cable.. ive received one like that before.


----------



## mathi8vadhanan (Aug 6, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> How do you reckon KZ managed that?


I have no idea. Looks like 296898 is also Knowles (used in Hisenior T2). The three Knowles drivers alone are more than $70 (even with bulk pricing). I'm guessing, they're misleading about the drivers. That's why they've gone with a opaque shell.
It won't be long before someone cracks open these.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mathi8vadhanan said:


> I have no idea. Looks like 296898 is also Knowles (used in Hisenior T2). The three Knowles drivers alone are more than $70 (even with bulk pricing). I'm guessing, they're misleading about the drivers. That's why they've gone with a opaque shell.
> It won't be long before someone cracks open these.



They don't use Knowles. Likely Bellsing is making custom tuned drivers for KZ and just using the same naming scheme as Knowles.


----------



## Wiljen

Drumkrunk said:


> Priced them accordingly ??
> 
> 
> or it's the Channel. i've had left and right channels go bad.,  it can also be one side reverse polarity.  if the hardware checks out all good with different cables, phones, you might have a wonky polarity in the cable.. ive received one like that before.




Not exactly what I was meaning - If you switch the earpieces between ears with the cable still attached, the imbalance should switch sides if it is any of the things you mentioned.   When I said switch earpieces, I should have stipulated between ears without disconnecting the cables.


----------



## hiflofi

mathi8vadhanan said:


> I have no idea. Looks like 296898 is also Knowles (used in Hisenior T2). The three Knowles drivers alone are more than $70 (even with bulk pricing). I'm guessing, they're misleading about the drivers. That's why they've gone with a opaque shell.
> It won't be long before someone cracks open these.


Gotta agree with this. When you first mentioned the naming scheme, I was doubtful they'd run with Knowles without making it a big marketing headline, and so I also took a look at the prices. They're running on very thin or non-existent margins if they're using Knowles.

Wishful thinking on @Drumkrunk's part.


----------



## Slater (Aug 6, 2018)

mathi8vadhanan said:


> 22955 & 30095 are Knowles.
> 22955 - http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/218/-532680.pdf
> 30095 - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Knowles-Johanson-Manufacturing/WBFK-30095-000?qs=Q97emo0LRppk1/KuN5A0rw==



It is more likely that are simply clone BA drivers (from Bellsing or Estron), which often have the same model number to make it easier for customers to select them.

Given KZs direct relationship with them in the past, this is the most likely explanation.

If they did use Knowles, they would not miss the opportunity to proudly advertise it (as other ChiFi manufacturers do). They certainly wouldn’t hide the fact with an opaque housing and no mention of it in marketing materials.

I guess we’ll find out for sure when someone does a tear down.


----------



## VinceHill24

KZ do not use Knowles, same goes with many chinese brand IEM unless they claim it to be. KZ claimed to be using their own custom BA driver but once i dissected a unit of ZST and found that the BA driver has the Bellsing logo engraved on it so i believe they use BA driver manufactured by Bellsing.


----------



## chuckler

Got my ED16 a week ago. Sounds Good on some tracks and OK on others.
I think my right earpiece has a driver flex issue since it makes the crinkling noise when i insert it. 
no issues with the sound itself.
Lower Mids seem to be quite recessed in these... Feels like a few frequencies are not (even) produced at all. Let me use them more and see.
When i first got it out of the box the treble sounded unnatural and almost robotic that it got me laughing. 
But over the course of a week it sounds wayy better but still not full sounding like the Tin audio T2.
Mixed feelings so far about this.. because in some tracks the highs sound lush and controlled, in others not so much.
I've been mostly listening to Metal and various sub genres on these.

That being said i did manage to hear a few details on various metal tracks which were   not reproduced audibly/ i hadn't heard   on my T2 or SE215 so that's definitely an interesting thing., especially at $15


----------



## monini13

Im surprised not many mentioned the kz ed9's! these are my favourite kz iems and i think it provides a fairly neutral sound (with the reduced bass nozzle) that is hard to find in this price range. Really good clarity and bass punch at ~$10usd. Hope to spread more awareness about this beautiful iem!


----------



## mbwilson111

monini13 said:


> Im surprised not many mentioned the kz ed9's! these are my favourite kz iems and i think it provides a fairly neutral sound (with the reduced bass nozzle) that is hard to find in this price range. Really good clarity and bass punch at ~$10usd. Hope to spread more awareness about this beautiful iem!



Actually the ED9 has been mentioned often... if you search the thread you will see.  Most of us do agree that it is excellent.  It is just that people talk a lot about the whatever is new.

I have them and enjoy them most with the brass (not the shiny) filter.


----------



## Slater

monini13 said:


> Im surprised not many mentioned the kz ed9's! these are my favourite kz iems and i think it provides a fairly neutral sound (with the reduced bass nozzle) that is hard to find in this price range. Really good clarity and bass punch at ~$10usd. Hope to spread more awareness about this beautiful iem!





mbwilson111 said:


> Actually the ED9 has been mentioned often... if you search the thread you will see.  Most of us do agree that it is excellent.  It is just that people talk a lot about the whatever is new.
> 
> I have them and enjoy them most with the brass (not the shiny) filter.



Same here.

I have 2 chrome pairs (that contain the old driver version) and 1 Black pair (that contain the new driver version). Despite hearing little if any  sonic differences between the driver versions, I like them all the same.

A great IEM. I wish KZ made some new models with interchangeable filters (like LZ A4). Being able to tune an IEM to your individual liking is like getting multiple IEMs in 1. More bang for the buck!


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Same here.
> 
> I have 2 chrome pairs (that contain the old driver version) and 1 Black pair (that contain the new driver version). Despite hearing little if any  sonic differences between the driver versions, I like them all the same.
> 
> A great IEM. I wish KZ made some new models with interchangeable filters (like LZ A4). Being able to tune an IEM to your individual liking is like getting multiple IEMs in 1. More bang for the buck!



My ED9 is black.  Happy to have the choice of filters because I have a feeling that if there had not been a choice it would have been tuned like the shiny one which, while I don't hate it, is not my preference.  

I only have a couple of other iems with filter choices.  One is something I bought from Amazon that has three filters... I still need to play with changing those.  Still has the default one install which I think is the treble one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075489991/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

If you look at the photo, I bet you can figure out why I bought it (other than the fact it was a lightning deal at the time).    I just noticed I never added it to  my list and I have had it since for 9 months!

The other is my Trinity Audio Master which came with a billion filters.  I am using the green one.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Same here.
> 
> I have 2 chrome pairs (that contain the old driver version) and 1 Black pair (that contain the new driver version). Despite hearing little if any  sonic differences between the driver versions, I like them all the same.
> 
> A great IEM. I wish KZ made some new models with interchangeable filters (like LZ A4). Being able to tune an IEM to your individual liking is like getting multiple IEMs in 1. More bang for the buck!


even as kz has produced ever-more complex and pricier hybrids, the ed9 remains at or near the top of my kz heap--the zsr, zs5 etc. have bigger stages and more extension, but lack the indefinable "naturalness" of the ed9. i also prefer the build and fit of the ed9 to the aforesaid--it subjectively feels like the richer piece.


----------



## C2thew

B9Scrambler said:


> My early impressions of KZ's new five balanced armature earphone, the AS10; https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/08/04/kz-as10-first-look/
> 
> ​



Can you post a side picture showing the nozzle lengths comparison between the KZ ZS10 and the AS10?  I read your article that the AS10 fitment is similar to the ZS10.  I just wanted to see if they addressed the fit issue caused by the shallow nozzle length.  You got the other angles covered for the headphone comparison!


----------



## nxnje

How would you compair the uiisii hm7 with other headphones we have here in this thread?


----------



## Zerohour88

mathi8vadhanan said:


> I have no idea. Looks like 296898 is also Knowles (used in Hisenior T2). The three Knowles drivers alone are more than $70 (even with bulk pricing). I'm guessing, they're misleading about the drivers. That's why they've gone with a opaque shell.
> It won't be long before someone cracks open these.



"misleading", lol. A bit reaching there since pretty sure no mentions of Knowles was ever made. They mostly outsource to Bellsing or maybe even the various BA makers (not hard to find such companies, like Estron or Binary)

Hisenior sells the B5+ (5BA) for around 100 bux and they claim its Knowles BA. Plausible that its either some Knowles BA or lower-end models, since most Hisenior products have gained quite favorable impression. Depending on how the AS10 pans out, the B5+ seems a natural upgrade to it (nearly double the price, but its quite pretty)


----------



## TheVortex

Zerohour88 said:


> "misleading", lol. A bit reaching there since pretty sure no mentions of Knowles was ever made. They mostly outsource to Bellsing or maybe even the various BA makers (not hard to find such companies, like Estron or Binary)
> 
> Hisenior sells the B5+ (5BA) for around 100 bux and they claim its Knowles BA. Plausible that its either some Knowles BA or lower-end models, since most Hisenior products have gained quite favorable impression. Depending on how the AS10 pans out, the B5+ seems a natural upgrade to it (nearly double the price, but its quite pretty)



I have ordered the B5+ and just waiting for it to arrive. It would be a good comparison to compare it to the AS10 and the BS10 when it eventually gets released.


----------



## Wiljen

nxnje said:


> How would you compair the uiisii hm7 with other headphones we have here in this thread?



I was pretty wholly unimpressed with the hm7.  To me they were typical consumer level in-ears.  Lots of mid-bass and treble, no sub-bass to speak of or mids.    Lots of other better options available.


----------



## nxnje

Thanks for your opinion


After speaking with scrambler and panda I was going to order a pair of KZ Zsa
 the problem is I really love the full and very deep bass of my memt X5
What I don't like about'em is they have a crap soundstage and highly recessed mids
So I'm very confused as i want a worth upgrade from My memt x5 and so I was looking for a cheap solution to play computer games for like five bucks but I think I am going to go with KZ ed9

What remains is just a big confusion about my future iem, the Zsa are really interesting but i'm afraid I will be disappointed with Bass
Should I wait for KZ yz35? I mean, heard the ZSA can't rich the deepness of memt x5 bass


----------



## Wiljen

nxnje said:


> Thanks for your opinion
> 
> 
> After speaking with scrambler and panda I was going to order a pair of KZ Zsa
> ...



I'm not sure that if bass were my primary concern that I would look at the Zsa as the best prospect.  Several KZ models have been known for bass Zs3, Zst, and ED9 amongst them.  The newer ED4 also has nice low end but may not be quite as extended as the X5.  To my ear they are about equal so if it isn't quite as extended it certainly isn't a huge difference.


----------



## mikp

heads up on the kz aptx cable, dont know if its mentioned but mine was wired wrong. Left and right was swapped. In dialog with seller, but this product is not good compared to the trn cable.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Aug 6, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> Yeah, it seems to take forever for the KZ multi-hybrids to neutralize and crossover properly.  Funny, I traded eartips with @loomisjohnson and now I think I have SpinFit CP100s for XS-S-M and just missing L size, which he probably has.


I have 2 pairs of SpinFit CP100 L, 1 opened and 1 in the package, that I'd love to get rid of. I can't get them to work for me at all.


----------



## Podster (Aug 6, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Thanks for your opinion
> 
> 
> After speaking with scrambler and panda I was going to order a pair of KZ Zsa
> ...



Maybe it's just me and I'm for sure no bass head (that would be my 17/15 year old sons)! I love my $20 ZSA's and for $20 they slay so many other plastic offerings on the market, makes me sick when people walk into best buy and get themselves a cheap azz $9.99 ($11 w/tax) Skull Candies when they could have these little sweet hearts IMO the cable on these are worth the $9.99






Granted they are not bass bombs but I have found that to be file dependent, detail is phenomenal and bass is fast, true and accurate. As with many KZ's if you are treble sensitive these won't work for you but if you don't require ear blistering volumes these pay back in spades in accuracyNot sure what one wants for bass but just threw in "In da club" by Fiddy Cent and what I really like is the bass is there but not running over 50 "Don't be a fool" , Shawn Mendes (MTV Unplugged) is natural and laid back. Kickdrum on Psycho by Muse is spot on! With all that said and like KZ puts on that box right behind them High sensitivity treble which IMO does make them dynamic as all get out "Sense Outa Nansense" by Linton Kwesi Johnson to me has more bass than anyone should ever need but I do live by the mantra "We all hear them differently"

Just to be fair I have heard these on many occasion


----------



## nxnje

@Podster 

Then my test tracks are ones from boombox cartel like: 
- moon love
- nbd (atliens remix)

Here i hear my memt x5 digging so hard down, wanted to know how zsa digs here.
It's just their soundstage is crap and mids are too much recessed


----------



## grkn (Aug 6, 2018)

*What KZ are likely best for using the upgraded bluetooth adapter during workouts? *
I've heard the adapter is a bit low volume, so perhaps finding the most sensitive pair is key here? It's rated at 16 ohm. The contenders I've evaluated, info from aliexpress which I presume is the most official source of info:

ED16 98 db 8 ohm - seems like the best choice sound quality vice, but lower impedance than the amp.
ES4 104 db 25 ohm - upgraded cable, V shape sound, upgrade from KZT. Maybe a bit too bulky?
KZR 107 db 22 ohm - similar to ED16 with a few flaws and some sibliance.
KZT 106 db 10 ohm - V shape sound similar to ES4. Seems like this would be the loudest option.

Which one would you pick for this use? I have the KZ ATE-S and have been happy with them, but obviously they won't work with the BT adapter.


----------



## B9Scrambler

C2thew said:


> Can you post a side picture showing the nozzle lengths comparison between the KZ ZS10 and the AS10?  I read your article that the AS10 fitment is similar to the ZS10.  I just wanted to see if they addressed the fit issue caused by the shallow nozzle length.  You got the other angles covered for the headphone comparison!



Here you go.


----------



## Spook92

Has anyone else pre-ordered the AS10 from Ali? If so has it been shipped?
I ordered a pair ten days ago and they haven't shipped it yet...


----------



## Aparker2005

Mine hasn't shipped yet either. Not officially released yet are they?


----------



## Danfish98

nxnje said:


> Thanks for your opinion
> 
> 
> After speaking with scrambler and panda I was going to order a pair of KZ Zsa
> ...


My favorite aspect of the ZSA sound is its subbass. Digs deep and clear and doesn't bleed at all into the mids like the ES4. I have an aftermarket 10" sub in my car for bass and the ZSA has enough bass to make me happy when I'm not in my car.


----------



## Strat Rider

Due to the mostly positive impressions here from sources that I feel have sound and musical choices that parallel my own, I am now impatiently awaiting my ed9 delivery.

This past week I was sorting out eartips, when the mail delivery interrupted my task.
Reading a recommendation from @Slater regarding wide bore tips with a longer stem, I can now also vouch for the Auvio from Radio Shack.

Just an FYI; if your particular size does not show up in stock, look again in a few days. When I ordered the first time, they didn't show large size as available.

My original order was 5 packs of assorted sizes (so I could get large which were not, available) along with 5 of mediums only.
Before I actually made the order two days later, they showed 5 packs of large as available, so I happily added those to my order.

I have used them on zsr, after removing kz whirlwinds and spacer, zs6, and xiaomi hybrid. They will certainly out last whirlwinds,


----------



## fluteloop (Aug 6, 2018)

mathi8vadhanan said:


> $70 (even with bulk pricing). .



Where are you getting your figures from?


----------



## notreal

*Guys, looking for your EQ settings for KZ ES4. *


----------



## Zerohour88

Aparker2005 said:


> Mine hasn't shipped yet either. Not officially released yet are they?



They have, its probably just reseller being a bit slow to get stocks. Impressions have popped up on the official KZ store and several taobao resellers (common theme among the impressions is more/better bass?).


----------



## hiflofi (Aug 7, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> They have, its probably just reseller being a bit slow to get stocks. Impressions have poppedup on the official KZ store and several taobao resellers (common theme among the impressions is more/better bass?).


Reading through the Taobao reviews right now. I don't understand Chinese, so I'm using Google Translate, but they have some buzzwords that are pretty commonly used. Plus, the translations are actually not awful if you use some imagination with the metaphors.

Indeed, the reviews do have a lot of talk about the bass.
One of them says "the BA (they call this moving iron) bass of the AS10 is stronger than the DD (they call this moving circle) bass of the ZS10. This is praise".
There's also another that says "vocals are better" and the "bass is stronger than imagined". It also says that "sense of space is low". I'm assuming that's soundstage.
Another saying "the low frequency of this headphone is really too sensational, the high frequency is also good".

I think there's a consistent theme in these reviews with the bass indeed.

EDIT: I think I'm personally leaning towards skipping the AS10. Seems like it has a different sound to the one I prefer. Will wait for more reviews though.


----------



## fluteloop (Aug 7, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Gotta agree with this. When you first mentioned the naming scheme, I was doubtful they'd run with Knowles without making it a big marketing headline, and so I also took a look at the prices. They're running on very thin or non-existent margins if they're using Knowles.
> 
> Wishful thinking on @Drumkrunk's part.



I honestly was answering someone elses question with a suggestion, nothing is impossible with the right agreements. if anyone needs components, it's kz. speculating what suppliers and contracts they are able to acheive is probably time best spent elsewhere.


----------



## pbui44 (Aug 7, 2018)

While at CanJam@SoCal 2016, I was bringing the finished contest cards for the raffle at the main stage, when someone (@Watagump?) told me to check out the CA Andromeda, which was a prototype at the time.  I said I would, but forgot.  Since then, I always had a need to try out the CA Andromeda...until I first saw the KZ ZS6.

I had just traded my JVC FX700 wooden in-ears and needed another open-back IEM to replace it, which the ZS6 looked to fit the bill.  I then looked at a diagram of the ZS6 internals and saw the nano-tube attached to the divider between the dynamics and it reminded me of the JVC FXT90/100/200, making me want the ZS6 even more.  Then I found out about the green one, which looked like a regular CA Andromeda, and that made me want that one.

Well, the green model was rare to find at that time and I did hear about KZ QC problems, which further complicated the seemingly complex design of basically three systems: dual-BA, nano-tube, and vented area centralized to open up the dual-BA, nano-tube-6mm-driver, and 10mm driver sounds.  I bit the bullet on an expensive $48 green KZ ZS6 that I eventually found out had a rare nozzle lip that also required $7 shipping, making it a grand total of $55.

Top that off with a three week wait and I was wondering if this sound experiment was going to be worth it.  When I got it, it sounded fun, but harsh from the cheap and unrefined BAs and the entangled nano-tube-dual-dynamic mess hitting the vents like a hot mess breaking the glass tray for more coke.  So I had to add an extra week of constant-album-play-burn-in and it finally sounded much more settled, but then the housing fittings were not great with the stock eartips, so I rolled eartips for weeks in an effort to get the best sound and fit.

I had a Linum 2-pin ultra-thin cable laying around and it helped a lot on comfort and microphonic sound, but I had to keep them from constantly popping out of place.  It was so bad that the nozzles were eating away at my IE80 small foam eartips to the point of outer-layer-exposure, requiring tiny dabs of super-glue to fix the ZS6 nozzle gashes.

I loved the sound, but the fit was getting to me.  I tried some small foam-hybrids from a Moster SuperTip back I found from years ago and it was almost perfect, but still moved the housings a little bit.  So I traded eartips with @loomisjohnson and he gave me small (yellow bore) SpinFit CP100Z.  Boom!  I finally found my perfect fit with the ZS6!  They move around a tad, but sound is now just a matter of background extensions, so i can definitely live with that.  So after nearly four months of rolling eartips, rolling in-ears, and rolling free time, I finally found the perfect IEM setup.

So KZ-ZS6=fun-design=fun-look=fun-internal-parts=fun-sound, making an equation I dig, dig, dig!


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

Drumkrunk said:


> Where are you getting your figures from?


mouser.com
Like many others have pointed out, these do not appear to be knowles. If it were, they would have advertised it everywhere. I checked bellsing as mentioned by @B9Scrambler, they are using the same driver names as knowles.
http://www.bellsing.com/en/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=283&id=118


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Voxis9292 said:


> Can you upload a pic of what you did widen?





 

I think its not that clear...but see the one vent with white mesh behind. I enlarged it without hurting the mesh...

Lowered the bass bleed so some bass relieving and some clarity on mid that side.

But my left vent was smaller than right, that why I scratched and made it a little bigger.

Second is spinfit cp240(narrow bore but long bore fix the bass) so treble is sibilant but also fix the fitting issue without creating vacumm effect


----------



## dhruvmeena96

pbui44 said:


> While at CanJam@SoCal 2016, I was bringing the finished contest cards for the raffle at the main stage, when someone (@Watagump?) told me to check out the CA Andromeda, which was a prototype at the time.  I said I would, but forgot.  Since then, I always had a need to try out the CA Andromeda...until I first saw the KZ ZS6.
> 
> I had just traded my JVC FX700 wooden in-ears and needed another open-back IEM to replace it, which the ZS6 looked to fit the bill.  I then looked at a diagram of the ZS6 internals and saw the nano-tube attached to the divider between the dynamics and it reminded me of the JVC FXT90/100/200, making me want the ZS6 even more.  Then I found out about the green one, which looked like a regular CA Andromeda, and that made me want that one.
> 
> ...


Do slater mod and viola...
Or if you can do soldering, add a 18mm smd metal film resistor to BA.

KZ should have added the BA in series instead of parallel.

This was corrected by PHB by niceHCK which does sound way better than KZ ZS6 and has hefty but comfortable build with way better QC and soundstage....and MMCX

Because 2pin betrayed me became very loose on ES4 left side.

I feviquicked the both socket since I dont need detachable cable with KZ style QC


----------



## dhruvmeena96

These are not Knowles driver... KZ takes Knowles driver and make there driver to KZ standard.

But they now make some good BA since the ZSA and updated ES4.

The pic is of updated ES4. There is no KZ logo on BA and mids are way cleaner than @audionab burned ES4

The KZ 30095 gets affected by burn in and are harsher and Decayed than Knowles 30095


mathi8vadhanan said:


> 22955 & 30095 are Knowles.
> 22955 - http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/218/-532680.pdf
> 30095 - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Knowles-Johanson-Manufacturing/WBFK-30095-000?qs=Q97emo0LRppk1/KuN5A0rw==


----------



## Pacalwb

Just received the ED16 and the new BT cable. I really hate the memory ends on both bt and standard cable. Who even came up with this crap. I use vsds5 so it just has normal cable and I feel like the ends on these are really heavy and it just forces the headphones out of my ears. Not sure how to properly model it so it's not so irritating.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Pacalwb said:


> Just received the ED16 and the new BT cable. I really hate the memory ends on both bt and standard cable. Who even came up with this crap. I use vsds5 so it just has normal cable and I feel like the ends on these are really heavy and it just forces the headphones out of my ears. Not sure how to properly model it so it's not so irritating.


most folks peel off and remove the memory portion--slater et. al. have posted instructions on how to do so on this thread.


----------



## Podster (Aug 7, 2018)

nxnje said:


> @Podster
> 
> Then my test tracks are ones from boombox cartel like:
> - moon love
> ...



Well with those tracks and obviously your love for low end rumble the ZSA may not be your cup of tea, bass goes down but only by the assistance of that sweet and clear sub bass that the ZSA offers. For me the strength in the ZSA lies from the upper range of sub bass to the lower range of the high frequency driver. When I'm talking dynamic I'm talking the mid-centric sound signature. If you don't like it loud of overly bass laden then the ZSA will pay you back in spades on vocals and the crispness around the edge of instruments Not being a reviewer with technical lingo this is the best idea of what the ZSA sounds like (least to my ears)

Exactly @loomisjohnson

@Strat Rider , really hope you like your ED9's with one of the two filters and right tips. I stand behind them to this day as possibly one of the best bang for your buck of that year for sure


----------



## Wiljen

notreal said:


> *Guys, looking for your EQ settings for KZ ES4. *



for me, 
-4db at 150Hz - 250Hz  reduces mid-bass bloom
-2db at 1k to pull just a tad of extra energy out and remove a bit of nasal vocals
-4db at 5k to reduce the aggressive presence a tad

That formula comes as close as I have found to providing a near flat profile.


----------



## Podster

Wiljen said:


> for me,
> -4db at 150Hz - 250Hz  reduces mid-bass bloom
> -2db at 1k to pull just a tad of extra energy out and remove a bit of nasal vocals
> -4db at 5k to reduce the aggressive presence a tad
> ...



This is why I don't write formal reviews, I could never pin down this much detail on an un-EQ'd pair much less pinning db ranges Good ear @Wiljen


----------



## Wiljen

Podster said:


> This is why I don't write formal reviews, I could never pin down this much detail on an un-EQ'd pair much less pinning db ranges Good ear @Wiljen



I'd love to take credit, but it is much more trial and error than anything else.   You do get so you know what frequencies should cause a certain reaction so when they don't you know the headphone doesn't respond to EQ, but every different one requires a slightly different tweak to do its best so still comes down to fiddle until you find it.


----------



## Podster

Yep and great call on the Fiddle, if it had not been for Fiddling I may have thrown several iem's away over the years and as I think back I've only had one pair over the years that could not be tweaked into something palpable to my ears! I hope I don't offend anyone but I was so disappointed in these I ended up smashing them with a 3lb sledge out of frustration I've oft thought I may have just been having a bad day Everyone say it with me now...................Bad Dolphin" LOL


----------



## Wiljen

I've had a few where the best title for a review would be "Music from the Pit" or "How to pierce your ears without a needle".    Somethings just cannot be fixed.


----------



## nxnje

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Do slater mod and viola...
> Or if you can do soldering, add a 18mm smd metal film resistor to BA.
> 
> KZ should have added the BA in series instead of parallel.
> ...



Just saw this product by NiceHCK, the "PHB"
How would u compare it as sound signature to any kz of the line? 
How are bass and sub-bass there? And how much is it big compared to other kzs?


----------



## benbammens (Aug 7, 2018)

nihontoman said:


> update on the new bluetooth KZ cables:
> 
> they do cut out when wearing them outside and the phone is in my pockets. sometimes it os unbearable, sometimes they behave very well. took a lengthy walk yesterday and everything worked fine. but today, a 5 minute walk turned into a frustration trip :/ good thing is I bought them as a replacement to my dx50 which is cumbersome to use as a dac and cuts out if you look at it funny (usb connection is faulty i guess).



I've used mine today for the first time and it is really bad. Not usable like this...


----------



## groucho69

mathi8vadhanan said:


> mouser.com
> Like many others have pointed out, these do not appear to be knowles. If it were, they would have advertised it everywhere. I checked bellsing as mentioned by @B9Scrambler, they are using the same driver names as knowles.
> http://www.bellsing.com/en/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=283&id=118



No China manufacturer is paying anything close to Mouser pricing.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

nxnje said:


> Just saw this product by NiceHCK, the "PHB"
> How would u compare it as sound signature to any kz of the line?
> How are bass and sub-bass there? And how much is it big compared to other kzs?


Its treble starts rolling of early and shows way less peak.
Mids are somewhat same and bass is reduced.

Somewhat mid centric. But due to dual BA firing treble(even in series), the nature of treble is still upfront, even after taming(somewhat on near to head) but still manages have a better mids and bass compared to ZS6.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

groucho69 said:


> No China manufacturer is paying anything close to Mouser pricing.


True.


----------



## Voxis9292

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I think its not that clear...but see the one vent with white mesh behind. I enlarged it without hurting the mesh...
> 
> Lowered the bass bleed so some bass relieving and some clarity on mid that side.
> 
> ...


I checked the vent with the mesh and it's also smaller then the right side ...  I tried your trick and attached it to my second cable (because my first one was defective) and it sounds a lot better now!  Thanks!


----------



## Podster

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its treble starts rolling of early and shows way less peak.
> Mids are somewhat same and bass is reduced.
> 
> Somewhat mid centric. But due to dual BA firing treble(even in series), the nature of treble is still upfront, even after taming(somewhat on near to head) but still manages have a better mids and bass compared to ZS6.



Guess I'll have to ping Nice and get a pair since the green was the only model of the ZS6 I did not get, have to see/hear this staggered vs. parallel BA thingy but I do prefer MMCX! Think I like the brass colored mesh too


----------



## Pronounta

My Tin T2's arrived today. They are great, but honestly... is there a damn trick to replacing these earpads?

The default ones are too large and I can't fit any others on, haha.


----------



## Slater (Aug 7, 2018)

Pronounta said:


> My Tin T2's arrived today. They are great, but honestly... is there a damn trick to replacing these earpads?
> 
> The default ones are too large and I can't fit any others on, haha.



Hmm, never had any trouble with installing tips on the T2.

Are you slipping them on “crooked” ie at an angle? This gets them over the nozzle the easiest.

It also helps to turn the tips inside out, which helps you slip them onto the nozzle easier. That’s assuming you’re using silicone tips.


----------



## pbui44

I have a good feeling that long listening periods with the ZS6 will eventually leave tiny callouses that will look like the an imprint of the housings on my ears.


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> I have a good feeling that long listening periods with the ZS6 will eventually leave tiny callouses that will look like the an imprint of the housings on my ears.



You’d be surprised. They are actually quite comfortable (for me anyways).

The ZS5 actually gave more people fit issues. KZ smoothed some of the edges out for the ZS6.


----------



## stjimmyjos

Anybody used new KZ Bluetooth APT-X module? Some impressions?


----------



## Phantomize

stjimmyjos said:


> Anybody used new KZ Bluetooth APT-X module? Some impressions?


Some people have posted impressions the last couple of pages.


----------



## benbammens

stjimmyjos said:


> Anybody used new KZ Bluetooth APT-X module? Some impressions?



Avoid like the plague... With my phone in my pocket the connections stutters all the time and they managed to switch the left and the right side. It seems all the cables have these problems. 

I opened it up in the hopes I could do the antenna mod as with the older model, but it uses a different kind of antenna so that's not possible.


----------



## Aevum

I bought the Tizen one on Aliexpress, its somewhat better, the first gen ones were horrible when it came to cutouts but the current 2 pod 8hour ones have reduced it a lot, 

I still get some with specific songs


----------



## chuckler (Aug 8, 2018)

Pronounta said:


> My Tin T2's arrived today. They are great, but honestly... is there a damn trick to replacing these earpads?
> 
> The default ones are too large and I can't fit any others on, haha.



Get the QKZ tips from aliexpress QKZ store.T400 works brilliantly with the T2. I replaced mine with M size foam from QKZ and it solved too much pressure issues in my ear too.


----------



## mikp

benbammens said:


> Avoid like the plague... With my phone in my pocket the connections stutters all the time and they managed to switch the left and the right side. It seems all the cables have these problems.
> 
> I opened it up in the hopes I could do the antenna mod as with the older model, but it uses a different kind of antenna so that's not possible.



yes, its one of the worst bt products I have tried the last 5 years. Bad antenna that drops after 2-3m inside, unusable outside and wired wrong.

After refund I paid 3.5$ for it, still too much. Bad news is I ordered another one on sale from same seller before I received the first, so that one will also be disputed.

Stick with the trn.


----------



## TechnoidFR

nxnje said:


> Just saw this product by NiceHCK, the "PHB"
> How would u compare it as sound signature to any kz of the line?
> How are bass and sub-bass there? And how much is it big compared to other kzs?




Hi

I receive it and it's totally différent. Not same hardware, not same signature. They are good but more bassy and less treble. ZS6 are more flat.

Ps : i'm french Youtube reviewer and i see this thread since few months . Sorry for my language.


----------



## Slater

TechnoidFR said:


> Hi
> 
> I receive it and it's totally différent. Not same hardware, not same signature. They are good but more bassy and less treble. ZS6 are more flat.
> 
> Ps : i'm french Youtube reviewer and i see this thread since few months . Sorry for my language.



I guess I can scratch the phb off my list now. Thanks for the info.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 8, 2018)

Lol


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> I guess I can scratch the phb off my list now. Thanks for the info.


PHB is treble rolled of so it gives perception of subbass boosted but is better than stock ZS6 by miles.

PHB sounds like foam on one of the BA driver of KZ ZS6 but with slightly better speed and control and slight bassy


----------



## TechnoidFR

dhruvmeena96 said:


> PHB is treble rolled of so it gives perception of subbass boosted but is better than stock ZS6 by miles.
> 
> PHB ressemble à de la mousse sur l'un des pilotes BA of KZ ZS6 but with slightly better speed and control and slight bassy



After few music to compare. I understand you're post. Phb is more darkish so bass is more loud for same volume of miss/high. I like them because no sibilance and beautiful sound.

I will compare with my macaw gt600s


----------



## youngarthur

Received my KZ ZS10 today, first impressions are that the treble is a bit sharp, even for my old ears, so a bit of EQ, ah, thats better. Bass is well extended/clean, mids, not too forward, with good depth/width of soundstage, and good separation between instruments.Another keeper. It amazes me, the quality/price ratio, you can get these days, long may it continue.


----------



## Pruikki

youngarthur said:


> Received my KZ ZS10 today, first impressions are that the treble is a bit sharp, even for my old ears, so a bit of EQ, ah, thats better. Bass is well extended/clean, mids, not too forward, with good depth/width of soundstage, and good separation between instruments.Another keeper. It amazes me, the quality/price ratio, you can get these days, long may it continue.



*What about KZ AS10 ?? 5BA drivers there.

Anyone had to test latest ZS10 ? i skipped the ZS 10 but i now wanna get the AS10 5BA drivers version.
Dear Forumers, Any thoughts? *


----------



## B9Scrambler

Pruikki said:


> *What about KZ AS10 ?? 5BA drivers there.
> 
> Anyone had to test latest ZS10 ? i skipped the ZS 10 but i now wanna get the AS10 5BA drivers version.
> Dear Forumers, Any thoughts? *



I recommend the AS10 over the ZS10. Well balanced signature with awesome technical ability. Wrote a preview which you can check out here. Full review will be up some time next week.


----------



## nxnje

Today is the day, i have a coupon valid until this evening. 5$ off on ebay, so gonna pick one headphone.
I'm confused between the ES4 and the ZSA.
Fitting is the real doubt.
ZSA are sure good in fitting, but people say online the ES4 sounds way better in terms of soundstage and separation and has a better low end spectrum.

What would u pick if you were me? 
I think i'm even gonna buy a pair of KZ ed9 which i'm gonna pay like 5$


----------



## fluteloop

Meena's extreme close up XD     epic.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

nxnje said:


> Today is the day, i have a coupon valid until this evening. 5$ off on ebay, so gonna pick one headphone.
> I'm confused between the ES4 and the ZSA.
> Fitting is the real doubt.
> ZSA are sure good in fitting, but people say online the ES4 sounds way better in terms of soundstage and separation and has a better low end spectrum.
> ...


Get a ED16 with silver cable upgrade.

Save Monnies bro


----------



## dhruvmeena96

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Get a ED16 with silver cable upgrade.
> 
> Save Monnies bro


And yah...get some foam tips


----------



## fluteloop

B9Scrambler said:


> I recommend the AS10 over the ZS10. Well balanced signature with awesome technical ability. Wrote a preview which you can check out here. Full review will be up some time next week.



I read your take on them, a well presented and thorough review and answered any questions I had about them. look forward to more of your reviews in the future.  Good day.


----------



## fluteloop

dhruvmeena96 said:


> These are not Knowles driver... KZ takes Knowles driver and make there driver to KZ standard.
> 
> But they now make some good BA since the ZSA and updated ES4.
> 
> ...




in time they'll meet the knowles for quality. there'd be a lot of trial and error. i can't see how manufacturing those things can be easy, it's not like there's an off the shelf machine that you can buy from some underground japanese engineers academy that lets you put sheet metal in one end and then out the other pops little BA's with laser engraving and 95% QC pass


----------



## fluteloop

but if you want to know something.... in my head.... I imagine there's a place that has a machine like that.... and the guy using it is still amazed every time a new BA pops out of the machine that works... he has to oil up some parts now and then to keep it running smoothly... he just operates the machine he has no idea what kind of sorcery occurs inside of the machine.


----------



## fluteloop

dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ should have added the BA in series instead of parallel.



I was thinking this today on the bus ride home. I'd have to do some math but the impedence values can go haywire when you're combining multiple loads.  it's an epic feat. the fact they deliver them in a box with a nice cable etc and you plug them in and they're not offensive to listen too is insane to me. for the money... it's insane..


----------



## nxnje

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Get a ED16 with silver cable upgrade.
> 
> Save Monnies bro



I wasn't considering them as i've read by many people they don't have a strong sub-bass which is very important to my highly bass tastes (bass music, edm music, pop and electronic music, dubstep and so on)


----------



## hakuzen

nxnje said:


> I wasn't considering them as i've read by many people they don't have a strong sub-bass which is very important to my highly bass tastes (bass music, edm music, pop and electronic music, dubstep and so on)


my ED16 have very strong sub-bass..


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 8, 2018)

nxnje said:


> I wasn't considering them as i've read by many people they don't have a strong sub-bass which is very important to my highly bass tastes (bass music, edm music, pop and electronic music, dubstep and so on)





hakuzen said:


> my ED16 have very strong sub-bass..



My ED16 has great sub-bass.  What they do not have is a headache inducing mid bass boost.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> My ED16 has great sub-bass.  What they do not have a headache inducing mid bass boost.



Do you think it could be able to satisfy a basshead? 
It seems smaller than the es4 in terms of shell too.


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> Do you think it could be able to satisfy a basshead?
> It seems smaller than the es4 in terms of shell too.



I can't answer that.  I am not a basshead... not sure I know exactly what that actually means.  Surely even a basshead wants to hear the rest of the music... or do they not?  I want to hear the bass that is meant to be in the music but do not need it to be exaggerated.  

As for the shell I personally find the ED16 more comfortable than the ES4 but others may disagree.  The shape fits me better and it lies a bit flatter.  A shell does not have to be big to produce bass.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> I can't answer that.  I am not a basshead... not sure I know exactly what that actually means.  Surely even a basshead wants to hear the rest of the music... or do they not?  I want to hear the bass that is meant to be in the music but do not need it to be exaggerated.
> 
> As for the shell I personally find the ED16 more comfortable than the ES4 but others may disagree.  The shape fits me better and it lies a bit flatter.  A shell does not have to be big to produce bass.



Ehm i didn't say shape should be big to produce good bass, i have a pair of memt x5 which produce crazy bass in a 6mm microdriver.
What i'm searching is in a few words a substitute that maintains the same bass with some forward mids.

As a basshead i want hear other things, but if bass and sub bass are not powerful as i want, i just put the headphones on the shelf.. that's why i'm so much confused, reading opinions online is never like trying a headphone, so it's even hard to explain people how a bass should sound to satisfy a basshead.

Like if you listen to Boombox Cartel -  NBD (ATLiens remix) u can hear what i'm talking about in the drop.


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> hat's why i'm so much confused, reading opinions online is never like trying a headphone, so it's even hard to explain people how a bass should sound to satisfy a basshead.



Of course.  It is impossible to know for sure.  We all hear differently and have different expectations.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> Of course.  It is impossible to know for sure.  We all hear differently and have different expectations.


Y, can't agree more. 
Thanks for your answer in any case!



dhruvmeena96 said:


> And yah...get some foam tips


I've read you have ZSA and ED16 too. Could you please make a little and short comparison between them considering i love a well extended low-end to listen to some bass, dubstep and electronic music?

Thanks a lot in advance


----------



## Strat Rider (Aug 8, 2018)

@Strat Rider , really hope you like your ED9's with one of the two filters and right tips. I stand behind them to this day as possibly one of the best bang for your buck of that year for sure [/QUOTE]

Hot out of the mailbox (literally) the ed9 has arrived. OOTB, fired up some Clapton on the ipod touch g6, and thought they sounded muffled. Replaced filter with the alternate, (both are bronze) & Clapton-ed again, Wow! 5-8 usd, I like surprises like this. Great bang for buck! Thanks to @Slater @Podster @B9Scrambler


----------



## mbwilson111

Strat Rider said:


> @Strat Rider , really hope you like your ED9's with one of the two filters and right tips. I stand behind them to this day as possibly one of the best bang for your buck of that year for sure



Hot out of the mailbox (literally) the ed9 has arrived. OOTB, fired up some Clapton on the ipod touch g6, and thought they sounded muffled. Replaced filter with the alternate, (both are bronze) & Clapton-ed again, Wow! 5-8 usd, I like surprises like this. Great bang for buck! Thanks to @Slater @Podster @B9Scrambler[/QUOTE]

One is shiny and the other is dull.  I like the dull one..


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> Hot out of the mailbox (literally) the ed9 has arrived. OOTB, fired up some Clapton on the ipod touch g6, and thought they sounded muffled. Replaced filter with the alternate, (both are bronze) & Clapton-ed again, Wow! 5-8 usd, I like surprises like this. Great bang for buck! Thanks to [USER=427234]@Slater @Podster @B9Scrambler[/USER]



You mentioned that you had 2 brass filters. You should have 2 distinctly different sets of filters:

1 set should be a shiny/polished gold plated color, that has a cone shaped end like the bell of a trumpet, and a small piece of black foam inserted into it.
1 set should be a dull brass color, that is a little longer than the shiny gold one, and has no foam at all inside.




If you're interested, here's a graph showing the differences between the 2 filters.

Gold filter (for more low end ie sub bass/bass *below 200Hz*):
​
Dull Brass filter (for a more balanced/neutral sound, due to less emphasis on the low end *below 200Hz*):
​


----------



## harry501501

mbwilson111 said:


> Hot out of the mailbox (literally) the ed9 has arrived. OOTB, fired up some Clapton on the ipod touch g6, and thought they sounded muffled. Replaced filter with the alternate, (both are bronze) & Clapton-ed again, Wow! 5-8 usd, I like surprises like this. Great bang for buck! Thanks to @Slater @Podster @B9Scrambler



One is shiny and the other is dull.  I like the dull one..[/QUOTE]

The KD9 is one of the KZ range I had my eye on for a long while but by that time their hybrids were taking off and i forgot about it. Got it £7 on eBay, should arrive this weekend.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Not a KZ, but I compare them to the ED15 and ZS6. Some thoughts on TRN's V80, for those who may be interested.

The Contraptionist / Head-fi

​


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I was just about ready to buy Ed9 last night. Its been on my wish list for awhile. Ended up hitting buy on ZSA. Anybody have a comparison between V20 and ZSA? Both 1+1 over ears. V20 cost me $14, ZSA $16. 

Anyway, I may just go ahead and order ed9. May just quell the thirst I have for the Flares Gold GAS I have, which will never be filled because $1200 for earphones is just friggen stupid.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

AS10 on ebay for $47.57 using PRONTO15 coupon code until 10pm PT. Really hard for me to pass this up but wife would murder me if I didn't.


----------



## Danfish98

nxnje said:


> I wasn't considering them as i've read by many people they don't have a strong sub-bass which is very important to my highly bass tastes (bass music, edm music, pop and electronic music, dubstep and so on)


The ES4 has mediocre sub bass and bloated mid bass. Not good for the music you listen to. ZSA is better but a bit rolled off below 40 hz. I find the ZSA's bass perfect for rock but it might be a little lacking for dub step. That said, I doubt you'll find better at that price point and retain any clarity whatsoever. Haven't heard the ED16 so i can't compare that one.


----------



## Wiljen

B9Scrambler said:


> Not a KZ, but I compare them to the ED15 and ZS6. Some thoughts on TRN's V80, for those who may be interested.
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-fi
> 
> ​



Look it's Master Chief and his Treble cannon.


----------



## nxnje

Danfish98 said:


> The ES4 has mediocre sub bass and bloated mid bass. Not good for the music you listen to. ZSA is better but a bit rolled off below 40 hz. I find the ZSA's bass perfect for rock but it might be a little lacking for dub step. That said, I doubt you'll find better at that price point and retain any clarity whatsoever. Haven't heard the ED16 so i can't compare that one.



Thank you for your answer.
As i'm still confused i just put my zsa buying decision in the short next future.
I ordered today a pair of KZ ED9 for like 6.5€

Do you think i made a good choice?


----------



## Wiljen

nxnje said:


> Thank you for your answer.
> As i'm still confused i just put my zsa buying decision in the short next future.
> I ordered today a pair of KZ ED9 for like 6.5€
> 
> Do you think i made a good choice?



I think for the price, you can't go wrong and you learn something about what you like and how your thoughts compare to those who reviewed the ED9 and if nothing else, you find a few like-minded listeners who's advice you trust when selecting your next purchase.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Wiljen said:


> Look it's Master Chief and his Treble cannon.



Yup, haha. He can also be commonly found with these twin Comets and trying to woo the AWK-009.

 ​
I really don't get how people can have issues with the ZS6 and be fine with the V80, but to each their own ears.


----------



## Zerohour88

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup, haha. He can also be commonly found with these twin Comets and trying to woo the AWK-009.
> 
> ​
> I really don't get how people can have issues with the ZS6 and be fine with the V80, but to each their own ears.



Hype-hate is a strong influence on the brain's capability


----------



## fluteloop

Podster said:


> Guess I'll have to ping Nice and get a pair since the green was the only model of the ZS6 I did not get, have to see/hear this staggered vs. parallel BA thingy but I do prefer MMCX! Think I like the brass colored mesh too




get a green pair of Andromeda's


----------



## fluteloop (Aug 9, 2018)

t2 or as10...  decisions. decisions.


----------



## TechnoidFR (Aug 9, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup, haha. He can also be commonly found with these twin Comets and trying to woo the AWK-009.
> 
> ​
> I really don't get how people can have issues with the ZS6 and be fine with the V80, but to each their own ears.



This statut with iem, so good Idea !


----------



## nxnje

Wiljen said:


> I think for the price, you can't go wrong and you learn something about what you like and how your thoughts compare to those who reviewed the ED9 and if nothing else, you find a few like-minded listeners who's advice you trust when selecting your next purchase.



I think so.
And i even think i'm gonna buy a pair of zsa in the next days.. chi fi is getting me crazy


----------



## BrunoC

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup, haha. He can also be commonly found with these twin Comets and trying to woo the AWK-009.
> 
> ​
> I really don't get how people can have issues with the ZS6 and be fine with the V80, but to each their own ears.




Yeah, I never had piercing problems with the ZS6. 
BTW with the AWK-009 is what I consider to be a piercing treble torture experience. Never heard anything that high pitched in my life.


----------



## B9Scrambler

BrunoC said:


> Yeah, I never had piercing problems with the ZS6.
> BTW with the AWK-009 is what I consider to be a piercing treble torture experience. Never heard anything that high pitched in my life.



I didn't find it too bad. Was very tip dependent. Pretty sure my treble acceptance has been skewed by the RHA CL1 Ceramic. Cool earphone, but in small bursts. Only for hardcore treble-heads.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> I didn't find it too bad. Was very tip dependent. Pretty sure my treble acceptance has been skewed by the RHA CL1 Ceramic. Cool earphone, but in small bursts. Only for hardcore treble-heads.



The AWK-009 was a real disappointment for me.  It was one of my first iems and I never expected it to be so bright.  I had never heard such piercing highs in my life.

...except for the time we were at Lidl shopping and there was a little kid there (maybe around 3 years old) who kept making the most high pitched whistle type sound.  Not sure how he was doing it but my brain was ready to explode.  He never stopped and his parents did nothing... never even said a word to him.  I wish I  had had ear plugs or a set of iems with me.  I have never heard a human make such a sound.  Maybe he was an alien...

We got out of there as fast as we could.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> The AWK-009 was a real disappointment for me.  It was one of my first iems and I never expected it to be so bright.  I had never heard such piercing highs in my life.
> 
> ...except for the time we were at Lidl shopping and there was a little kid there (maybe around 3 years old) who kept making the most high pitched whistle type sound.  Not sure how he was doing it but my brain was ready to explode.  He never stopped and his parents did nothing... never even said a word to him.  I wish I  had had ear plugs or a set of iems with me.  I have never heard a human make such a sound.  Maybe he was an alien...
> 
> We got out of there as fast as we could.



LMAO! That's horrible. Hilarious, but horrible.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 9, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> LMAO! That's horrible. Hilarious, but horrible.



LOL.  I know.  He had a good sense of timing though... I remember it as being every 5 seconds.

haha.. I just thought of something... maybe his parents were wearing ear plugs.. .maybe they have to wear them every waking moment.


----------



## nxnje

I don't know how to say but.. the AS10 seems to priced imho.
KZ is maybe pushing the price a bit up (maybe justified if the quality is on point with that price) but i have to say if they push the prices too high they will just notice a bit less sales on those products.
I'm gonna speak clear.. why should i pick a kz that sometimes has qc issue when i can grab other things in 100$ price range?
hope they improve the quality control too.


----------



## Slater (Aug 9, 2018)

nxnje said:


> why should i pick a kz that sometimes has qc issue when i can grab other things in 100$ price range?



Everything can and does have the occasional QC issue, from a $0.01 piece of candy, to a $1M supercar. And that includes “_other things in the $100 price range_”. That’s reality.


----------



## Zerohour88

nxnje said:


> I don't know how to say but.. the AS10 seems to priced imho.
> KZ is maybe pushing the price a bit up (maybe justified if the quality is on point with that price) but i have to say if they push the prices too high they will just notice a bit less sales on those products.
> I'm gonna speak clear.. why should i pick a kz that sometimes has qc issue when i can grab other things in 100$ price range?
> hope they improve the quality control too.



I've parroted this many times, but a friend's Lyra II fell apart (glue came apart?) and Dita Answer cable had a torn that had to be RMA-ed. Both of those are $500+ IEMs.

AS10 is 60 bux or so, with the usual trend of it peaking during release and then going lower a few weeks or so after. For a 5BA IEM of decent SQ, that's not terrible at all. Also had experience with a DIY 5BA IEM for 100 bux that had a BA rattle after a few months, though it was still usable.

If you do want something at $100 range, there's lots to choose from (Hisenior B5+, Ibasso IT01 comes to mind). Certainly not from KZ, since they don't have any at that bracket.


----------



## Podster

Drumkrunk said:


> t2 or as10...  decisions. decisions.



"get a green pair of Andromeda's" LOL


----------



## nxnje

Zerohour88 said:


> I've parroted this many times, but a friend's Lyra II fell apart (glue came apart?) and Dita Answer cable had a torn that had to be RMA-ed. Both of those are $500+ IEMs.
> 
> AS10 is 60 bux or so, with the usual trend of it peaking during release and then going lower a few weeks or so after. For a 5BA IEM of decent SQ, that's not terrible at all. Also had experience with a DIY 5BA IEM for 100 bux that had a BA rattle after a few months, though it was still usable.
> 
> If you do want something at $100 range, there's lots to choose from (Hisenior B5+, Ibasso IT01 comes to mind). Certainly not from KZ, since they don't have any at that bracket.



Yea, those were the products I was referring to.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Zerohour88 said:


> I've parroted this many times, but a friend's Lyra II fell apart (glue came apart?) and Dita Answer cable had a torn that had to be RMA-ed. Both of those are $500+ IEMs.
> 
> AS10 is 60 bux or so, with the usual trend of it peaking during release and then going lower a few weeks or so after. For a 5BA IEM of decent SQ, that's not terrible at all. Also had experience with a DIY 5BA IEM for 100 bux that had a BA rattle after a few months, though it was still usable.
> 
> If you do want something at $100 range, there's lots to choose from (Hisenior B5+, Ibasso IT01 comes to mind). Certainly not from KZ, since they don't have any at that bracket.


i sorta agree with nxnje--kzs are a no-brainer at the <$30 bracket, but trigger some hesitation and encounter serious competition at >$50, esp. since (with a few exceptions) kz's build and packaging are not on a par with some of their price peers. soundwise? i guess time will tell.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 9, 2018)

Greetings, Difference spec wise between as10 and ba10?


----------



## Zerohour88

All of the retails prices for recent KZ is quite pricey for them, but honestly, its so easy to find deals (such as discount codes from reviewers) and cheap resellers that paying those prices feels a bit weird

I remember the ZS10 being around $50 on release, but you can find it on ali for $35 now.

Though I do feel the AS10 being $60 initially won't go that low quite so soon, but if its good and you're being conscientious with money, why not wait (or better yet, just buy something else if you're in a rush).

this reviewer (japanese, so you might have to use google translate) recently did a sort-of "ZS6-inspired IEMs review marathon", most of them are below $50 with very good packaging and differing SQ to choose from:
http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/


----------



## Wiljen

nxnje said:


> I think so.
> And i even think i'm gonna buy a pair of zsa in the next days.. chi fi is getting me crazy



Wait til the bug really bites and you end up with an A&K Dap and a couple sets of CIEMS on your desk.  Don't ask me how I know.


----------



## Wiljen

actorlife said:


> Greetings, Difference spec wise between as10 and ba10?



Not much, mostly a form factor difference from what information has been released.  That being said, I can find no details on crossover components so it could be all the same drivers with completely different tunings.


----------



## actorlife

Wiljen said:


> Not much, mostly a form factor difference from what information has been released.  That being said, I can find no details on crossover components so it could be all the same drivers with completely different tunings.


Looks like the same except the open grills on the ba10. Could be fake open though as pointed out on some kz's by slater.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL.  I know.  He had a good sense of timing though... I remember it as being every 5 seconds.
> 
> haha.. I just thought of something... maybe his parents were wearing ear plugs.. .maybe they have to wear them every waking moment.



And he grew up to be a musician....now you know the rest of the story


----------



## Wiljen

actorlife said:


> Looks like the same except the open grills on the ba10. Could be fake open though as pointed out on some kz's by slater.



Openings on the housing on an all ba arrangement may mean very little.  If they have tubes running from the nozzle to the drivers, it effectively removes the housing from the equation (unless the BA is vented some other way).


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> And he grew up to be a musician....now you know the rest of the story



Haha, I bet that went over 90% of people’s head.


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Haha, I bet that went over 90% of people’s head.



I play to a select, hip audience.


----------



## nxnje

Wiljen said:


> Wait til the bug really bites and you end up with an A&K Dap and a couple sets of CIEMS on your desk.  Don't ask me how I know.



I already dream about them but i'm freakin lucky: i don't have money as i'm still paying my studies so i end every month with a couple of euros in my pocket.
I have to say this is bad as i can't buy many pieces of technology, but the good part is that the fury monkey in me doesn't unleash his power blocking me when i think about buying something.

I've heard time ago an A&K KANN with A&K Layla and i have to say i have a new dream.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Wiljen said:


> Openings on the housing on an all ba arrangement may mean very little.  If they have tubes running from the nozzle to the drivers, it effectively removes the housing from the equation (unless the BA is vented some other way).



Also don’t know if makers a difference but the BA10s are going to be metal apparently and at a slightly higher price point.


----------



## Trebor1966

KZ BA10:


----------



## Strat Rider

mbwilson111 said:


> Hot out of the mailbox (literally) the ed9 has arrived. OOTB, fired up some Clapton on the ipod touch g6, and thought they sounded muffled. Replaced filter with the alternate, (both are bronze) & Clapton-ed again, Wow! 5-8 usd, I like surprises like this. Great bang for buck! Thanks to @Slater @Podster @B9Scrambler



One is shiny and the other is dull.  I like the dull one..[/QUOTE]

@mbwilson111 thank you for the heads up on the shiny vs dull finish.

I looked inside one pair of filters, and found a tiny piece of foam inside, I was assuming this was the "Bass" enhanced filters.


----------



## Strat Rider

Slater said:


> You mentioned that you had 2 brass filters. You should have 2 distinctly different sets of filters:
> 
> 1 set should be a shiny/polished gold plated color, that has a cone shaped end like the bell of a trumpet, and a small piece of black foam inserted into it.
> 1 set should be a dull brass color, that is a little longer than the shiny gold one, and has no foam at all inside.
> ...



Thank You for that piece of info. I appreciate that.


----------



## Slater (Aug 9, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> One is shiny and the other is dull.  I like the dull one..
> 
> @mbwilson111 thank you for the heads up on the shiny vs dull finish.
> 
> I looked inside one pair of filters, and found a tiny piece of foam inside, I was assuming this was the "Bass" enhanced filters.



Correct.

And here’s a secret ED9 tip. You can remove the foam from the shiny filters. It changes the sound of the tuning filter without the foam piece vs with the foam. This gives you a “free 3rd set” of tuning filters.

Likewise, you can insert the foam into the dull brass tuning filter, for a 4th filter option!

Each option is slightly different sound!

My personal favorite are the shiny gold tuning filter with the foam removed.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Trebor1966 said:


> KZ BA10:


Those look heavy, cumbersome and generally all around painful.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys it's been a long time since i've been on this thread, what's the current state of things? I see that they will release a new top of the line, currently i'm with the ZSR, but i want to jump to the top, so how's the ZS10 vs ZS6?


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Those look heavy, cumbersome and generally all around painful.



Not if you have robot ears!

Beep beep boop


----------



## nxnje

BadReligionPunk said:


> Those look heavy, cumbersome and generally all around painful.



I think they will sure be heavy. 
What i ask myself is how they sound considering it is a 10BA unit.. curious about it. No money for it, thar's sure, but i've already heard some good things about the AS10 
Unfortunately, no money and small ears = can't try those kind of iems.


----------



## pbui44 (Aug 9, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Unfortunately, no money and small ears = can't try those kind of iems.



If you have small ears, then get the KZ ES4:

https://www.amazon.it/armature-dinamico-auricolari-cancellazione-orecchio/dp/B07CVSHZKD/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅZÕÑ&qid=1533864662&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=kz+ear&dpPl=1&dpID=41WiGAu56EL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


> If you have small ears, then get the KZ ES4:
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/armature-dinamico-auricolari-cancellazione-orecchio/dp/B07CVSHZKD/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅZÕÑ&qid=1533864662&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=kz+ear&dpPl=1&dpID=41WiGAu56EL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1



Or if you have even smaller ears, the KZ HDS3. They would comfortably fit a mouse's ears, and they sound great to boot!


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> They would comfortably fit a mouse's ears



photos of that mouse please...


----------



## fluteloop (Aug 9, 2018)

Podster said:


> "get a green pair of Andromeda's" LOL.



i'm being silly again.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> photos of that mouse please...


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


>



Poor little thing.


----------



## chi-fi mel

Slater said:


> Correct.
> 
> And here’s a secret ED9 tip. You can remove the foam from the shiny filters. It changes the sound of the tuning filter without the foam piece vs with the foam. This gives you a “free 3rd set” of tuning filters.
> 
> ...


Thanks Slater for the tip on removing the foam from the ED-9 filters. I've customized the ED-9 a ton, including sealing the vents. The most dramatic change was when I made custom eartips for them. It's a classic item, when they first came out you felt you were getting a $100 IEM for 10 bucks. I guess any IEM can be a work in progress, but especially the ED-9. As much as I like them I don't think KZ can ever top the ZSE for value.


----------



## TechnoidFR

I continue to use the PHB EM-023 ( This name seriously...)

On Slipknot - Vermillion : I listen only 3:20 to end ( I love the final ). The big problem is the detail, it seems too complex for him. It don't arrive to have clear scene and it's unpleasant. GUITAR isn't clear and lost detail and quality. It seems garish

Comparing to ZS6 : They are very better. More natural, it manages better all instrument and stay perfectly clear. The instrument separation and detail stay excellent.

Comparing to Macaw GT600s : they manage less good than zs6 but better than PHB. Globally it same thing than zs6 but became more garish at this moment.

I must reuse my zs6 to compare with PHB.
The big plus is the em-023 is not sibilant at all. And the Audio rendering is very good. Very interesting for the price


----------



## Phantomize (Aug 10, 2018)

Do you guys have any recommendations for preferably cheap but good sounding and small KZ IEMS (or other brands) ?


----------



## TechnoidFR

KZ ZSA, very compact and good sound


----------



## Wiljen

Phantomize said:


> Do you guys have any recommendations for preferably cheap but good sounding and small KZ IEMS (or other brands) ?



Try narrowing down your question.  What do you listen to?   What is your idea of good?  Neutral, big bass, lots of details, treble sparkle?     Lots of good choices out there but not every one fits every application.  
Your question is kind of like asking us "What car should I buy?"   Without knowing where you live, what size family you have, your driving habits, etc...  we are not likely to reach any consensus or provide a viable answer.


----------



## mbwilson111

Phantomize said:


> Do you guys have any recommendations for preferably cheap but good sounding and small KZ IEMS (or other brands) ?



KZ ED9


----------



## Phantomize

Wiljen said:


> Try narrowing down your question.  What do you listen to?   What is your idea of good?  Neutral, big bass, lots of details, treble sparkle?     Lots of good choices out there but not every one fits every application.
> Your question is kind of like asking us "What car should I buy?"   Without knowing where you live, what size family you have, your driving habits, etc...  we are not likely to reach any consensus or provide a viable answer.



You're absolutely right, sorry. I am still relatively new to the whole scene but I do know that I like details and a large soundstage. 
I listen to songs ranging from Metal, Classical, French House, Rock, Blues and a bit of Rap with focus on the more guitar-driven songs, if that helps. 


TechnoidFR said:


> KZ ZSA, very compact and good sound





mbwilson111 said:


> KZ ED9



Thank you!


----------



## Podster

As much as I love my ED9's my suggestion would be these babies Tiny, light and excellent SQ

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...&orderId=70246490093424&productId=32505213145


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> As much as I love my ED9's my suggestion would be these babies Tiny, light and excellent SQ
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...&orderId=70246490093424&productId=32505213145



What is the name of that iem?  The link just takes me to a sign in page.


----------



## Podster

KZ HDS1


----------



## Tunaa

hey guys i wanna buy upgrade cables from KZ. Does silver cables makes sound different ? And Bluetooth cable quality is good or not ?


----------



## Strat Rider

mbwilson111 said:


> Poor little thing.



You do know by now @mbwilson111 , when you post that you want to see that mouse, that is just another challenge for @Slater


----------



## Slater

Strat Rider said:


> You do know by now @mbwilson111 , when you post that you want to see that mouse, that is just another challenge for @Slater



haha, I do like a good challenge


----------



## harry501501

Hey, I'm trying to find bit more on the ARTISTE DC1 and its sound sig? Anyone point me in right direction or give me wee rundown please?


----------



## harry501501

mbwilson111 said:


> The AWK-009 was a real disappointment for me.  It was one of my first iems and I never expected it to be so bright.  I had never heard such piercing highs in my life.
> 
> ...except for the time we were at Lidl shopping and there was a little kid there (maybe around 3 years old) who kept making the most high pitched whistle type sound.  Not sure how he was doing it but my brain was ready to explode.  He never stopped and his parents did nothing... never even said a word to him.  I wish I  had had ear plugs or a set of iems with me.  I have never heard a human make such a sound.  Maybe he was an alien...
> 
> We got out of there as fast as we could.



Maybe he was choking and gasping for air


----------



## HungryPanda

No I think he was trying to suck all the air out of the shop so he could shriek louder


----------



## actorlife (Aug 10, 2018)

Slater said:


> Or if you have even smaller ears, the KZ HDS3. They would comfortably fit a mouse's ears, and they sound great to boot!


Also KZ ED3 are really good.
https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/32...-computer-mobile-phone-HIFI-Headset-tide-rock


----------



## mbwilson111

harry501501 said:


> Maybe he was choking and gasping for air





HungryPanda said:


> No I think he was trying to suck all the air out of the shop so he could shriek louder



LOL.  we should have recorded that and let others share the joy.


----------



## mbwilson111

harry501501 said:


> Hey, I'm trying to find bit more on the ARTISTE DC1 and its sound sig? Anyone point me in right direction or give me wee rundown please?



If you search the forum, you will find the Trinity thread where this iem was first discussed.


----------



## mbwilson111

Strat Rider said:


> You do know by now @mbwilson111 , when you post that you want to see that mouse, that is just another challenge for @Slater



Of course... and I expected him to come up with something

oops... sorry about three posts in a row.. should have consolidated them.


----------



## benbammens

Tunaa said:


> hey guys i wanna buy upgrade cables from KZ. Does silver cables makes sound different ? And Bluetooth cable quality is good or not ?



No, the BT cable is absolute crap. Tried to get my money back from Gearbest but they are not helpful and won't post my negative review... I now ordere the TRN cable from Aliexpress. Hope it is better (which isn't hard)


----------



## nofacemonster

I am not some audio guru but I am sure as hell that kz zs5 sounds very good especially considering the price. It simply beats everything I have. I just want to know what this soulsik dude was yapping about? What the bloody hell is a tube? I might sounds like a total noob and I'm sorry about that.



khighly said:


> You can see in the diagrams on every ZS5 listing that they have no tubes. It wasn't a lie, just cost cutting to keep them at a $25-$35 price point. QA is another cost cutting area.
> 
> Good luck getting anything near this quality for $27. Admirable large soundstage and a balanced sound. The best? No. They have their flaws.





Sylmar said:


> I could not agree more. I didn't buy the ZS5 because or marketing or the amount of drivers. I bought it because apparently they are something special within this price range and they are.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

nxnje said:


> I wasn't considering them as i've read by many people they don't have a strong sub-bass which is very important to my highly bass tastes (bass music, edm music, pop and electronic music, dubstep and so on)


Save money and get zhiyin z5000. 

But, lemme tell you

Try listening dubstep and electronic on mid centric iem. These music tends to sound large and hall like in neutral monitor which I enjoy a lot.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> Hot out of the mailbox (literally) the ed9 has arrived. OOTB, fired up some Clapton on the ipod touch g6, and thought they sounded muffled. Replaced filter with the alternate, (both are bronze) & Clapton-ed again, Wow! 5-8 usd, I like surprises like this. Great bang for buck! Thanks to @Slater @Podster @B9Scrambler



One is shiny and the other is dull.  I like the dull one..[/QUOTE]
It does sound magical. Best KZ for budget

Now give it a braided cable like ED15's


----------



## nxnje

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Save money and get zhiyin z5000.
> 
> But, lemme tell you
> 
> Try listening dubstep and electronic on mid centric iem. These music tends to sound large and hall like in neutral monitor which I enjoy a lot.



Mid-centric like? Tip me some budget iems maybe i know


----------



## Podster

Still think the HDS1’s are the best tiny/small solution even easy to sleep in Next to ED9


----------



## TechnoidFR

nxnje said:


> Mid-centric like? Tip me some budget iems maybe i know



I don't like z5000. Really bassy. Have sub bass on mâle vocal


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Still think the HDS1’s are the best tiny/small solution even easy to sleep in Next to ED9



It’s a shame they aren’t available anymore. My only pair of HDS1 died a long time ago


----------



## CoiL

I hope BA10 will bring down the price of AS10 (which I would like to try someday) cuz ~60$ price tag is way too near to B5+, IT01 and other 100$ goodies. KZ just haven`t proved reliability with their SQ/BQ/QC to just pay out 60$ "blindly".
I`m quite sure though, that AS10 SQ is very good if it would sell about 35-40$ max.
Personally I don`t like BA10 design a bit - looks uncomfy (especially for small ears) and it isn`t nice looking imho. ES4 / AS10 style is very good and kind of KZ house design which they should continue imo.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> It’s a shame they aren’t available anymore. My only pair of HDS1 died a long time ago


You can find them here: https://www.opensky.com/mobile/prod...iNmd3yE-A2VyK7p_MLCW5Fq0c8hwyRwxoCTp8QAvD_BwE

Checked this morning and pricing comes out to about 20 shipped


----------



## dhruvmeena96

nxnje said:


> Mid-centric like? Tip me some budget iems maybe i know


TinAudio T2, BGVP DS1, etymotic er4xr etc



TechnoidFR said:


> I don't like z5000. Really bassy. Have sub bass on mâle vocal


Depends on the tip. Use cp240 



CoiL said:


> I hope BA10 will bring down the price of AS10 (which I would like to try someday) cuz ~60$ price tag is way too near to B5+, IT01 and other 100$ goodies. KZ just haven`t proved reliability with their SQ/BQ/QC to just pay out 60$ "blindly".
> I`m quite sure though, that AS10 SQ is very good if it would sell about 35-40$ max.
> Personally I don`t like BA10 design a bit - looks uncomfy (especially for small ears) and it isn`t nice looking imho. ES4 / AS10 style is very good and kind of KZ house design which they should continue imo.


But at the same, KZ as10 has upped its game in SQ if I compare to any KZ. Plus for 60$, it justifies

And KZ states that AS10 are all QC checked properly and are limited supply


----------



## groucho69

dhruvmeena96 said:


> TinAudio T2, BGVP DS1, etymotic er4xr etc
> 
> 
> Depends on the tip. Use cp240
> ...


----------



## Aiwonsi

Hi friends, I bought new kz Bluetooth. Its signal sensitivity very bad. Signal lost when I only put the phone into my back pocket.
So I disassembly to find Bluetooth antennae. I found chip antennae.

Any recommendation to upgrade antennae for best signal?


----------



## Slater (Aug 11, 2018)

Aiwonsi said:


> Hi friends, I bought new kz Bluetooth. Its signal sensitivity very bad. Signal lost when I only put the phone into my back pocket.
> So I disassembly to find Bluetooth antennae. I found chip antennae.
> 
> Any recommendation to upgrade antennae for best signal?



The previous model of KZ Bluetooth had an antenna on the board. There was a design defect which caused poor reception, but the antenna could be extended to correct the issue.



I don't see an antenna anywhere on your (new model) board. I suspect it is in the "pod" on the other side (ie in the other "pod"). Or perhaps the actual wire between the "pods" _is_ the antenna (the iPod 6G used the earphone wire as its FM antenna, for example).


----------



## Aiwonsi

I assumed E labeled blue chip on the right side is chipped antennae. If I replaced with best reception antennae. It can be help?


----------



## Slater (Aug 11, 2018)

Aiwonsi said:


> I assumed E labeled blue chip on the right side is chipped antennae. If I replaced with best reception antennae. It can be help?



No idea friend. I don’t have any experience with a ceramic chip antennas. You could try getting a better antenna chip and swapping it out?

Can you measure the length of that blue chip in millimeters, and let me know what it is?

I do know your experience with poor signal is also reported by other KZ cable owners. So it does appear to be some sort of design issue with the new cable (ie maybe with the antenna, ground plane, or perhaps shielding).

I know I am staying far away from the new KZ Bluetooth cable. Perhaps they will revise it and make improvements at a later date. Until then, the TRN cable is the best one to buy.


----------



## Aiwonsi

Slater said:


> No idea friend. I don’t have any experience with a ceramic chip antennas. You could try getting a better antenna chip and swapping it out?
> 
> Can you measure the length of that blue chip in millimeters, and let me know what it is?
> 
> ...


Thank Slater I disassembly it because I was inspired by you lol. My friend suggested TRN too.
Length of blue chip is about 3.5*2mm


----------



## Slater (Aug 12, 2018)

Aiwonsi said:


> Thank Slater I disassembly it because I was inspired by you lol. My friend suggested TRN too.
> Length of blue chip is about 3.5*2mm



If you look here, you will see a number of replacement antennas that will fit the KZ cable: https://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Antennas/_/N-8w0fa?P=1z0x01lZ1y93es5Z1yu8mv5Z1z0x0j9&Ns=Length|0

If it was me, I would swap the KZ antenna chip with any of the ones in that list (although I wouldn't recommend the 1.7dBi gain antenna). Also, the tallest chip in that list is 1.2mm, which looks like it will be fine judging from the photo you posted of the stock antenna chip.

The antenna chip will swap out easily with a soldering iron (or take it to a local electronics shop or phone repair shop and they will be able to do it for you in a few minutes).

I know that Mouser is not in your country, but the point is that you should be able to easily locate the same components listed on that Mouser page in your country (or import them).

If you do swap the antenna, be sure to let us know how it goes because it could help out others who are unhappy with the KZ cable performance!


----------



## nakedtoes

just got the KZ APTX bluetooth ... and cant seen to use APTX mode in developer mode... only AAC..... any solution?


----------



## Aevum (Aug 12, 2018)

I picked up one of these,
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...a4ae86e&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0

They run somewhat better but still expiriance stuttering with some files.

BTW: whats the general opinion of the new AS10 ?


----------



## Podster

neo_styles said:


> You can find them here: https://www.opensky.com/mobile/prod...iNmd3yE-A2VyK7p_MLCW5Fq0c8hwyRwxoCTp8QAvD_BwE
> 
> Checked this morning and pricing comes out to about 20 shipped



Good call, I thought I posted a live link as well. You know some of the less used AliEx sellers have some stashed on a back shelf somewhere!


----------



## Slater

nakedtoes said:


> just got the KZ APTX bluetooth ... and cant seen to use APTX mode in developer mode... only AAC..... any solution?



What Android version are you running?

I assumed you googled the problem yourself (as it’s going to be an android related issue, not a KZ one)?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

Slater said:


> What Android version are you running?
> 
> I assumed you googled the problem yourself (as it’s going to be an android related issue, not a KZ one)?


I guess that he might need android oreo and above for that for that


----------



## phower (Aug 12, 2018)

nakedtoes said:


> just got the KZ APTX bluetooth ... and cant seen to use APTX mode in developer mode... only AAC..... any solution?


Not all Android phones support aptX only a few. Also, the sound quality difference between SBC(default codec) and aptX is over blown. The only useful thing about aptX is the low latency version. Unfortunately, even fewer phones support aptX LL. Bluetooth has been a mess for a long time.
Also, direct streaming of AAC is higher quality than transcoding to SBC or aptX.


----------



## tripside

nakedtoes said:


> just got the KZ APTX bluetooth ... and cant seen to use APTX mode in developer mode... only AAC..... any solution?



Check if the left and right channels are swapped. My piece suffers from it and I also saw someone on youtube mentioning the same. Most likely the first few batches are faulty.


----------



## Slater

tripside said:


> Check if the left and right channels are swapped. My piece suffers from it and I also saw someone on youtube mentioning the same. Most likely the first few batches are faulty.



But KZ said that they are QC checking everything now! Lol


----------



## tripside

Slater said:


> But KZ said that they are QC checking everything now! Lol



Its a shame because honestly its a damn good product, especially for the price they are selling at. Good sound quality, 6+ hrs of battery life, aac and aptx codec support, can be paired with 2 devices simultaneous. Till I found the issue with channels , I was mightily impressed. My sole gripe being the memory wire that goes around the ear. It causes issues with the earphones staying put in the ears.


----------



## benbammens

tripside said:


> Check if the left and right channels are swapped. My piece suffers from it and I also saw someone on youtube mentioning the same. Most likely the first few batches are faulty.


Mine are also swapped...


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> But KZ said that they are QC checking everything now! Lol


----------



## nakedtoes

tripside said:


> Check if the left and right channels are swapped. My piece suffers from it and I also saw someone on youtube mentioning the same. Most likely the first few batches are faulty.


mine is ok... this is the first thing i check .. so far AAC sound pretty good or better then SBC for sure.. my phone is using Oreo


----------



## nakedtoes

benbammens said:


> Mine are also swapped...


check with u the pod with the buttons on the left or right? mine is on the left.. and the label on the plug left and right is correct at the pins side (MMCX)


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> But KZ said that they are QC checking everything now! Lol



Looks good, looks good, looks good, looks good, ...


----------



## benbammens

nakedtoes said:


> check with u the pod with the buttons on the left or right? mine is on the left.. and the label on the plug left and right is correct at the pins side (MMCX)


Mine is on the right.


----------



## Viber

Trebor1966 said:


> KZ BA10:



Are 5 BAs really enough tho?
I'll only buy a new IEM if there's *at least* 1 BA responsible for every 1000HZ!


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Viber said:


> Are 5 BAs really enough tho?
> I'll only buy a new IEM if there's *at least* 1 BA responsible for every 1000HZ!


We need more BA in series or low volume to produce 1kHz so that overall distortion per signal can be lowered.

First fact when we design an iem.

I think KZ AS10 does this better than Magaosi K5 pro by a huge margin.

Very sensitive and it doesn't produce ringing on cymbal like ES4. Cymbal decay is tight.

Way better than ZS10 but 2kHz is somewhat strong(not like the wrongly represented one in ZS10). Its a narrower band but is strong.

Soundstage is good and a very amazing sound under 100$


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

dhruvmeena96 said:


> We need more BA in series or low volume to produce 1kHz so that overall distortion per signal can be lowered.
> 
> First fact when we design an iem.
> 
> ...


Have you received the AS10? 
Shipping label got generated yesterday for my order.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Are 5 BAs really enough tho?
> I'll only buy a new IEM if there's *at least* 1 BA responsible for every 1000HZ!



With half of them wired out of phase for a stereo reverb type effect.


----------



## Zerohour88

Viber said:


> Are 5 BAs really enough tho?
> I'll only buy a new IEM if there's *at least* 1 BA responsible for every 1000HZ!



This is right up your alley, CTZ42, 21BA per side, only usd$1800 or so, a bargain


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> This is right up your alley, CTZ42, 21BA per side, only usd$1800 or so, a bargain



I need at least 70 BAs for good sound.


----------



## CoiL

Zerohour88 said:


> This is right up your alley, CTZ42, 21BA per side, only usd$1800 or so, a bargain


LOL, and does it sound better than Noble K10? I doubt it.
My dream would be 2DD (graphene) + 1(or 2)BA IEM tuned properly.


----------



## Zerohour88

CoiL said:


> LOL, and does it sound better than Noble K10? I doubt it.
> My dream would be 2DD (graphene) + 1(or 2)BA IEM tuned properly.



so far they haven't made such claims, so I've no idea.

in fact, the only thing on it is "The CTZ-42 unit (21 independent moving irons on one side) is the flagship king of moving iron headphones coming soon."

and with zero purchases and review, no info whatsoever on it.

my dream would be an IEM that makes me stop buying anything else, I guess? it can be 40 drivers, it can be 1, I don't really care much for that stuff.


----------



## Viber

Zerohour88 said:


> This is right up your alley, CTZ42, 21BA per side, only usd$1800 or so, a bargain



When a joke goes too far


----------



## CoiL

Zerohour88 said:


> my dream would be an IEM that makes me stop buying anything else, I guess? it can be 40 drivers, it can be 1, I don't really care much for that stuff.


Call it dream or not... my modded IT01 made me stop buying any new IEMs ...really, THE ITCH is gone ;P


----------



## Podster (Aug 13, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> This is right up your alley, CTZ42, 21BA per side, only usd$1800 or so, a bargain



That's some crazy stuff right there, they may rain supreme right now in the race for most BA's in one shell! Assuming I'm seeing a channel path for each set of frequencies? That is probably the most engineered iem on the market, makes me wonder how much R&D went into those and how long it took because not only do you need to fit 21 BA's in there you have to get the array right to fine tune. Do you have a shot of the ends of those nozzles? Wondering if it's open, mesh screen or individual holes for the 3 main freqs? Surely they don't weigh more than two three pounds each

My retired iPhone 4





@CoiL , what all did you modify on the IT01 besides another beautiful face plate


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> That's some crazy stuff right there, they may rain supreme right now in the race for most BA's in one shell! Assuming I'm seeing a channel path for each set of frequencies? That is probably the most engineered iem on the market, makes me wonder how much R&D went into those and how long it took because not only do you need to fit 21 BA's in there you have to get the array right to fine tune. Do you have a shot of the ends of those nozzles? Wondering if it's open, mesh screen or individual holes for the 3 main freqs? Surely they don't weigh more than two three pounds each
> 
> My retired iPhone 4



you can even see the vid for the config here:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141001.2.717e2187SAo8BS&id=573601636644

looks like a joke, but they probably started with the CTZ-24 and thought "hey, if we arrange this carefully, we can fit almost double the amount of BAs"


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Call it dream or not... my modded IT01 made me stop buying any new IEMs ...really, THE ITCH is gone ;P



Maybe you should make a bunch and sell them


----------



## B9Scrambler

This thing is pretty darn good. Value will be through the roof once the inevitable price drop kicks in.

The Contraptionist / Head-fi

 ​


----------



## gemmoglock

CYoung234 said:


> Nice. I have all three of these plus the ZS10. I like them all, but for sheer listening pleasure, I prefer the ZS10 to any of the others. THe ZS6 and ED16 are close. The ZS5 for me comes in last. But I am 64 years old and have some HF hearing loss, so your mileage will vary!





mbwilson111 said:


> My ED16 has great sub-bass.  What they do not have is a headache inducing mid bass boost.



I just got my ED16 and its a nice development from my ZS3. Does anyone who owns ZS6 _and_ ED16 care to share how they compare? I'm interested in picking up ZS6.

For example, I am ok with the forward treble and slight sibilance of the ED16, how does the ZS6 compare? 

Thank you!


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 13, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> This thing is pretty darn good. Value will be through the roof once the inevitable price drop kicks in.
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-fi
> 
> ​


Slow clap is the best meme in our community.

For respect and for making fun of somebody

Dual purpose

Same goes with AS10

Respect for its tuning and also making fun of plebians iem


----------



## audionab

i am so tempted to get as10 as well as zs4 
lol


----------



## jeromeaparis

gemmoglock said:


> I just got my ED16 and its a nice development from my ZS3. Does anyone who owns ZS6 _and_ ED16 care to share how they compare? I'm interested in picking up ZS6.
> 
> For example, I am ok with the forward treble and slight sibilance of the ED16, how does the ZS6 compare?
> 
> Thank you!


ZS6 is made of anodised aluminium. trebles are strong and sibillant, strong bass, good sub bass (seems more detailed cause boosted trebles)
ED16 has more polite and not sibillant trebles, strong sub bass (sound more natural)
Since I received the ED16 with small whirl tips, I did not use my red ZS6


----------



## BadReligionPunk

B9Scrambler said:


> This thing is pretty darn good. Value will be through the roof once the inevitable price drop kicks in.
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-fi
> 
> ​


Thank you for the comparisons of havi and zs10. Sounds like i will order a pair of these as soon as i can get for $40 or lower. Maybe 11/11? 

Good reveiw.


----------



## theresanarc

ZS3 or 9? Looking for something with good noise isolation and not too sibilant or too high in bass.


----------



## Slater (Aug 13, 2018)

theresanarc said:


> ZS3 or 9? Looking for something with good noise isolation and not too sibilant or too high in bass.



By “9”, do you mean the ED9? Because there is no such thing as ZS9 (at least not yet).

If ED9 is what you meant, I would recommend the ED9 over the ZS3. It comes with tuning filters that you can use to tweak the sound to your preference. You can also swap the foam around in different combinations, effectively giving you (4) tuning options with the ED9.


----------



## mikp

got my second pair of kz aptx (ordered before first pair arrived) together with another trn aptx and trn v20.

This kz aptx has controls on left side and labelled correctly, but what does that help when aptx crackles after 1 meter inside, forget about outdoors.

The trn works better, also the kz has some amplification that does not sound good.


----------



## WildSeven

mikp said:


> got my second pair of kz aptx (ordered before first pair arrived) together with another trn aptx and trn v20.
> 
> This kz aptx has controls on left side and labelled correctly, but what does that help when aptx crackles after 1 meter inside, forget about outdoors.
> 
> The trn works better, also the kz has some amplification that does not sound good.



The TRN aptx cable is better, I hardly notice any hiss and drop compare to the KZ one.


----------



## neo_styles (Aug 14, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> ZS6 is made of anodised aluminium. trebles are strong and sibillant, strong bass, good sub bass (seems more detailed cause boosted trebles)
> ED16 has more polite and not sibillant trebles, strong sub bass (sound more natural)
> Since I received the ED16 with small whirl tips, I did not use my red ZS6


You can combat the harshness of the ZS6's highs by using a DAP/EQ that leans more towards the warm side. Paired with my Sony A45, the ZS6 have taken over as my favorite KZ pair (out of the ZS6, ED16, ES4, and ZS6). I've found myself reaching for it more than I do my Noble X at this point, just for the fun factor.

In other news, I ordered a "crystal-plated silver and copper cable" just to start phasing out some of the stock cables I've got on hand. She's a beaut:


Spoiler













The braid on these is nice and tight, they actually include a slide to adjust tension around the neck, and have a nicely heat-shrinked loop around the ears (no memory wire!). Length is also perfect for me to use on my commutes.

As far as SQ goes, I'd say there's a slight improvement in mid-range detail. For instance, on AFI's _Answer That and Stay Fashionable_, I can hear a much clearer separation between the drums, bass, and lead guitar. With the A45, upper midrange and treble are never powerful enough to make me want to reach for the volume knob.

All in all, highly recommend (though it is basically the same price as an AS10). I also have their cable with a microphone and would recommend both, if only for the improvement in comfort.

Since some people do ask for it, here's my Neutralizer settings for the ZS6 + OKCSC cable combo:


Spoiler


----------



## jeromeaparis (Aug 14, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> just for the fun factor.



I do agree that ZS6 is more fun than ED16 and ES4, ZS6 sound is globaly boosted,
it is the spirit of rock n roll, when ED16 and ES4 sound more "well educated" & more natural,
specialy for voices and acoustic piano.
However, ED16 and ES4 can sound pretty good with technicaly very  well recorded music.


----------



## Podster

jeromeaparis said:


> I do agree that ZS6 is more fun than ED16 and ES4, ZS6 sound is globaly boosted,
> it is the spirit of rock n roll, when ED16 and ES4 sound more "well educated" & more natural,
> specialy for voices and acoustic piano.
> However, ED16 and ES4 can sound pretty good with technicaly very  well recorded music.



IMHO almost every iem or can sounds better with well recorded material/files As Hawkeye and BJ say, "Doctor: Doctor? Surgery for two" These wires gotta go


----------



## neo_styles

Podster said:


> IMHO almost every iem or can sounds better with well recorded material/files As Hawkeye and BJ say, "Doctor: Doctor? Surgery for two" These wires gotta go


Surprised you use scissors to remove the memory wire. I've found that just pushing the bottom end through the insulation normally causes the wire to punch right through the insulation. From there, it's just a straight pull to the top; total of maybe 10 seconds of effort. Might want to give that a shot rather than using sharp edges.


----------



## Podster

neo_styles said:


> Surprised you use scissors to remove the memory wire. I've found that just pushing the bottom end through the insulation normally causes the wire to punch right through the insulation. From there, it's just a straight pull to the top; total of maybe 10 seconds of effort. Might want to give that a shot rather than using sharp edges.



I'm an old skool surgeon and like to start with a short snip before the forceps (I may be a little on the anal side as well) Anyway it does not take that much longer for me, feel like I'm at a Rattlesnake Roundup and crossed a couple who just rejuvenated themselves


----------



## neo_styles

Podster said:


> I'm an old skool surgeon and like to start with a short snip before the forceps (I may be a little on the anal side as well) Anyway it does not take that much longer for me, feel like I'm at a Rattlesnake Roundup and crossed a couple who just rejuvenated themselves


_It's molting!_


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I think our way is still better, making the wire punch the insulation itself


neo_styles said:


> Surprised you use scissors to remove the memory wire. I've found that just pushing the bottom end through the insulation normally causes the wire to punch right through the insulation. From there, it's just a straight pull to the top; total of maybe 10 seconds of effort. Might want to give that a shot rather than using sharp edges.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Have you try USB C Cable? If you've a reference point comparing dap/dac because it far better than ess9018k2m of meizu Pro 6 plus


----------



## Podster (Aug 14, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> _It's molting!_



Indeed and if they were Moth's I'd agree 100% however we Texas boys just refer to it as shedding for reptiles

So I may not be thread correct but jamming on this duo at the moment, T2's give my ZS6's all they can take especially with some recordings as mentioned earlier (You did not hear that KZ)



dhruvmeena96 said:


> I think our way is still better, making the wire punch the insulation itself



That's the best part of this hobby, life really. You are more than welcome to prefer your way

Best part of this pair cable was no wire at all so we don't even need a debate


----------



## Aparker2005

My as10 shipped. Originally wanted the cyan but my seller got the black in so I told them to go on and send me those. Color on these isn't that important. I'll do a quick review when they arrive.


----------



## Mirimar (Dec 1, 2018)

Deleted.


----------



## MrGummido (Aug 16, 2018)

ES4s first impression:

Fits quite well although I found them slightly large. The ear tips get slightly uncomfortable after extended periods of use.
Cable is braided, though still susceptible to microphonics. Although the cable is not as sticky as the ATR/ATEs', as per all KZ stock cables, these still have that sticky rubbery feeling.

Bass is very strong, sub-bass especially, although it lacks control at times. Mid-bass is comparatively weaker.
Mids are warm albeit slightly recessed and at times lack detail, although I think things should clear up after burn-in.
Highs are bright too, free of sibilance, and provide quite a good sense of space.

Overall the ES4s provide a very full sound, and for a pair of budget hybrids they are absolutely worth it.
ps I got the Cyan version and they look great!


----------



## cleg

my video about AS10, spoiler: increased price compensated by sound quality


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I don't know why...

But KZ ES4 socket suddenly got loose and wire has to be in a specific place to sound(left piece)

crappy QC


----------



## Wiljen

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I don't know why...
> 
> But KZ ES4 socket suddenly got loose and wire has to be in a specific place to sound(left piece)
> 
> ****ty QC



Welcome to my luck with Kz, love the sound, hate the lack of QC.  90% of everyone here has never had a problem with KZ, me on the other hand, can no longer count on my fingers the problems I have had.   I am a magnet for items with issues.


----------



## MrGummido

Wiljen said:


> Welcome to my luck with Kz, love the sound, hate the lack of QC.  90% of everyone here has never had a problem with KZ, me on the other hand, can no longer count on my fingers the problems I have had.   I am a magnet for items with issues.



Have you ever tried their warranty?


----------



## Wiljen

MrGummido said:


> Have you ever tried their warranty?



I have and it seems to vary based on the seller more so than KZ itself.  I've had some sellers simply send a replacement while others have wanted the existing returned at a cost to me greater than just buying another set.  Not to plug any single vendor, but so far Gearbest that is a sponsor here has been excellent about sending replacements without much hassle.  The only downside is they usually are not anywhere near first in line when the new models come out so you have to wait a bit for them to get stock.   I think they just started advertising the AS10 yesterday for example.


----------



## Slater (Aug 15, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I have and it seems to vary based on the seller more so than KZ itself.  I've had some sellers simply send a replacement while others have wanted the existing returned at a cost to me greater than just buying another set.  Not to plug any single vendor, but so far Gearbest that is a sponsor here has been excellent about sending replacements without much hassle.  The only downside is they usually are not anywhere near first in line when the new models come out so you have to wait a bit for them to get stock.   I think they just started advertising the AS10 yesterday for example.



As much as I love Gearbest, and have had no problems with their customer service or ever had any issues with getting anything counterfeit, their prices (or should I say their discounts) are nowhere near as good as they used to be (1,2, or 3 years ago).

I’m not sure what changed, but the prices really seemed to change when they went from direct sales to being a “marketplace” of 3rd party sellers. Add to that the fact that they are so slow on getting new releases (as you pointed out).

I can’t remember the last time I bought anything from there, which is sad because I have literally bought hundreds of items from them through the years


----------



## trumpethead

Slater said:


> As much as I love Gearbest, and have had no problems with their customer service or ever had any issues with getting anything counterfeit, their prices (or should I say their discounts) are nowhere near as good as they used to be (1,2, or 3 years ago).
> 
> I’m not sure what changed, but the prices really seemed to change when they went from direct sales to being a “marketplace” of 3rd party sellers. Add to that the fact that they are so slow on getting new releases (as you pointed out).
> 
> I can’t remember the last time I bought anything from there, which is sad because I have literally bought hundreds of items from them through the years



I feel the exact same way... Their discount prices are no longer a discount ..


----------



## C2thew

Hmmmm so i'm having issues with my TRN + ZS3 combo.  Since I sweat when i'm running with my setup, i think that the trn has stopped auto connecting via bluetooth every time I turn it on.  It boots into pairing mode which means that it blinks from red to blue every single time I boot up.  Additionally, sometimes it will disconnect thinking it's booting into language mode selection (english or chinese)  I'm wondering if i should drain the battery all the way and see if that might reset the problem.

I think I might have encountered the sweat issue with the bluetooth.  Note to self, cover the buttons with saran wrap or something.  i'll update this if this problem goes away.


----------



## TheVortex (Aug 15, 2018)

Wonder how the Hisenior B5+ compare to the all BA KZ's.

5 x Knowles BA's versus 5 x KZ/Bellsing BA's. 

Also they are so much more refined than my ED16 and ZS10.


----------



## HungryPanda

Hisenior B5+ beats them all.........


----------



## BadReligionPunk

BLEH! 

My ZSA's that I ordered from NiceHCK came in today exactly 7 days from when I ordered them! 

That's crazy fast. I usually order from this shop mainly because shipping is fast. Also prices are good. 
Unfortunately they sent me ES4. 

Anybody ever have an order mix up from AE? How is this usually handled? 

I need ZSA. 

SIGH!


----------



## Zerohour88

HungryPanda said:


> Hisenior B5+ beats them all.........



As they should, since its a higher price bracket. I'd love to know how close the B5+ and AS10 performs, though. I'd expect the AS10 to be priced around $50-ish from various resellers after the initial marked-up release.

most 4/5 BAs chi-fi I've tested had a smooth sound sig, so the AS10 also having that similar style of tuning is quite a coincidence (I was hoping a bit more "zest" to the treble from AS10, as with all the previous hybrids, but without the minor sibilance and V-shaped tendency)


----------



## hiflofi (Aug 16, 2018)

cleg said:


> my video about AS10, spoiler: increased price compensated by sound quality



Thanks for you straightforward and honest review. Looks like I might wait for the BA10.



Zerohour88 said:


> As they should, since its a higher price bracket. I'd love to know how close the B5+ and AS10 performs, though. I'd expect the AS10 to be priced around $50-ish from various resellers after the initial marked-up release.
> 
> most 4/5 BAs chi-fi I've tested had a smooth sound sig, so the AS10 also having that similar style of tuning is quite a coincidence (I was hoping a bit more "zest" to the treble from AS10, as with all the previous hybrids, but without the minor sibilance and V-shaped tendency)


I actually think the AS10's price has stabilised for now, at least until 11:11. Why I'm thinking this is because I felt the ZS10 was more of a response to the complaints about the ZS6 (i.e. hot treble) rather than a completely new "flagship". However, the AS10 and BA10 are meant to be a completely new direction at a higher pricepoint which KZ now wants to compete in.


----------



## Zerohour88

hiflofi said:


> I actually think the AS10's price has stabilised for now, at least until 11:11. Why I'm thinking this is because I felt the ZS10 was more of a response to the complaints about the ZS6 (i.e. hot treble) rather than a completely new "flagship". However, the AS10 and BA10 are meant to be a completely new direction at a higher pricepoint which KZ now wants to compete in.



unfortunately, if these gets some momentum due to favorable early reviews/impression, the prices are gonna stay jacked up until a few months or a few more model release from KZ (ZS10 dropped quite quickly, since it was polarizing). AS10 prices in taobao have actually increased from before, to the now-standard usd$60 (398 yuan). As usual, I can also find reseller here selling them for $50.

china pricing is just baffling to me, honestly. Even more so now, when I can actually buy stuff cheaper from aliexpress/ebay/amazon than directly from taobao/brand's official store.

that said, 11/11 is gonna be interesting this year, even if the shipping is a nightmare.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 16, 2018)

Got a couple KZ's in the mail for reviewing today, and surprised by both IEMs - as I'm not a huge KZ fan at all. Will provide full reviews later.

AS10 - 5 BA. Surprisingly good! Slightly V-shaped but closer to neutral than I expected from KZ. Good detail. Warm.






KZ ZSA - ZS6 with less sibilance and harshness!




Raw Frequency Chart (uncompensated)


----------



## TechnoidFR

Interesting I wait as10 and I'll see to review tin audio


----------



## sdja619

*Longtime Chifi lurker and I finally got a pair of KZ ED16 (Blue) *
*Also got the blue tooth wires (angled B)*
* The pin mold restricts the pins from being fully inserted so I filed mine down to fit.

The stock tips (silicone?) do not fit in my ears. (Any suggestions on tips for ed16's?)*

*At first I was wondering if these IEMs need to be burned-in but Im more concerned about getting a good pair of replacement tips. Then I can judge the sound from there.*


----------



## hoerlurar

Slater said:


> As much as I love Gearbest, and have had no problems with their customer service or ever had any issues with getting anything counterfeit, their prices (or should I say their discounts) are nowhere near as good as they used to be (1,2, or 3 years ago).
> 
> I’m not sure what changed, but the prices really seemed to change when they went from direct sales to being a “marketplace” of 3rd party sellers. Add to that the fact that they are so slow on getting new releases (as you pointed out).
> 
> I can’t remember the last time I bought anything from there, which is sad because I have literally bought hundreds of items from them through the years



That seems to be a theme among chinese webshops; before gearbest i remember fasttech being one of the cheapest and best webshop, but after a year or two the prices weren't that good anymore. I know of a couple more webshops that i bought lots of stuff from for a while when they were new, but then the prices increased and i started shopping from other places.
So maybe they do a calculated loss the first couple of years and hope to build a big customer base, that hopefully will continue buy things even after the prices increase after a couple of years.

Unfortunately Sweden are enforcing taxes on imported goods since earlier this year, so i haven't bought anything since january because of that. If i buy something i will have to pay a fee of ~$8 + 25% of the value. So a $20 iem would cost me $33, so i am happy with my current iems for now.


----------



## CoiL (Aug 16, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> Wonder how the Hisenior B5+ compare to the all BA KZ's.
> 5 x Knowles BA's versus 5 x KZ/Bellsing BA's.


There isn`t any competition between them but wonder how many % of SQ compared to B5+ AS10 is missing and is price of AS10 justified enough?


antdroid said:


> Got a couple KZ's in the mail for reviewing today, and surprised by both IEMs - as I'm not a huge KZ fan at all. Will provide full reviews later.
> AS10 - 5 BA. Surprisingly good! Slightly V-shaped but closer to neutral than I expected from KZ. Good detail. Warm.
> 
> KZ ZSA - ZS6 with less sibilance and harshness!
> ...


Interesting.... that 3 to 5kHz valley @ AS10 doesn`t look good compared to ZSA & T2. Makes me rather want to get T2 but I really don`t like it`s fit.
Maybe I should get T2 and mod it inside ZS4(red) shells? ;P Just wondering... no actual need. Money goes elsewhere 

Edit:

From another thread:


eggnogg said:


> AS10 dismantled
> https://twitter.com/namanamaken77
> 
> 
> Spoiler: more


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> There isn`t any competition between them but wonder how many % of SQ compared to B5+ AS10 is missing and is price of AS10 justified enough?
> 
> Interesting.... that 3 to 5kHz valley @ AS10 doesn`t look good compared to ZSA & T2. Makes me rather want to get T2 but I really don`t like it`s fit.
> Maybe I should get T2 and mod it inside ZS4(red) shells? ;P Just wondering... no actual need. Money goes elsewhere
> ...


That's some abs plastic inside as10

Nicely done by KZ.

But the most unreliable connection

Zs3 failed
Es4 failed(feviquick fix permanent non removable cable)
Zs10 failed
ZS6 still rocking.


----------



## Podster

I can't wait for 11/11 this year, building up my list now 

KZ helping me color coordinate these days LOL


----------



## phower

Finally, a mainstream website reviews KZ products.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zs10


----------



## CardigdanWalk

phower said:


> Finally, a mainstream website reviews KZ products.
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zs10



Thanks for sharing, intersting read however it feels like one of the things that is that is repeatedly mentioned (as a negative?) is that it has no inline mic in the cable.

Which could have, you know, been resolved if they bought the version with the mic


----------



## genki

Hi guys, can someone enlight me if zs10 and as10 compared with ue tf10, ie7, ie8 and prophile 8 how it will fare?
I saw rave review on it and i cannot imagine the performance since the price also quite different with the model i mentioned above
If the performance is comparable i am thinking to use kz for gym or just go to iem


----------



## hiflofi

antdroid said:


> Got a couple KZ's in the mail for reviewing today, and surprised by both IEMs - as I'm not a huge KZ fan at all. Will provide full reviews later.
> 
> AS10 - 5 BA. Surprisingly good! Slightly V-shaped but closer to neutral than I expected from KZ. Good detail. Warm.
> 
> ...


If you still have the ZS6 on hand, I'd like to request a FR comparison with the ZS6. Thanks!


----------



## antdroid

hiflofi said:


> If you still have the ZS6 on hand, I'd like to request a FR comparison with the ZS6. Thanks!



Hi, Sorry I sold my KZ ZS6 a while back and didnt have my current measurement rig (MiniDSP EARS) back then.


----------



## antdroid

I find the AS10 mids/vocals a tad too recessed for my liking. It does respond to EQ pretty well. 

I was playing with EQ APO tonight and used my FR Measurements as a guide and came up with this EQ that I am liking thus far.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

antdroid said:


> I find the AS10 mids/vocals a tad too recessed for my liking. It does respond to EQ pretty well.
> 
> I was playing with EQ APO tonight and used my FR Measurements as a guide and came up with this EQ that I am liking thus far.


Use peace GUI for APO.


----------



## rum_runner

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with the AS10.  As the freq. graphs posted here illustrate, and which I can verify through actual listening....the mids/vocals are very recessed and muted.  Mids/highs almost have a muddy quality to them as well, not clear or natural.  So far I remain very impressed with the KZ ZS10s in comparison, way better with much more clarity although slightly odd sound signature.

But also:

Revonext QT3 very good (although some sibilance and unnatural sounding highs with certain sources/music).  
ED16 are good but VERY unnatural timbre.
Geekwold GK3 not great at all
Tennmak Pro dual dynamic driver - just ok.
TRN V80 - just ok.

Shozy Hibiki Special edition - horrible and disappointing
TFZ Queen - quite disappointing, not great but better than the Shozy.
Mee Audio Pinnacle P2 - OK but not great
Mee Audio Pinnacle P1 - amazing, so natural and massive sound stage - but lack of bass, which is ok for some music - these are my current favourite...and awesome paired with an LG G7 or similar DAC/Amp.  I discovered the headphones aren't actually 50 ohms though and that the cable is providing some of the resistance - if I switch cables my LG G7 won't switch into 50ohm+ mode...and therefore too quiet.

Hope that helps.


----------



## antdroid

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Use peace GUI for APO.


No thanks. Peace GUI doesn't work with my audeze plugin and I'm fine with the APO UI


----------



## B9Scrambler

rum_runner said:


> I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with the AS10.  As the freq. graphs posted here illustrate, and which I can verify through actual listening....the mids/vocals are very recessed and muted.  Mids/highs almost have a muddy quality to them as well, not clear or natural.  So far I remain very impressed with the KZ ZS10s in comparison, way better with much more clarity although slightly odd sound signature.
> 
> But also:
> 
> ...



Couldn't disagree more on the AS10, but I'm right there with you on the GK3. That thing is wayyyy overrated at the moment. Have three on hand, all sound different. Aparently there were some qc issues with the first batch that my first two were from. Third one sounds much better, but still not anywhere near top of class at that price point.


----------



## C2thew

Wait was there an actual mention of the KZ ZS4's release date yet or was that a typo for ES4?


----------



## antdroid

B9Scrambler said:


> Couldn't disagree more on the AS10, but I'm right there with you on the GK3. That thing is wayyyy overrated at the moment. Have three on hand, all sound different. Aparently there were some qc issues with the first batch that my first two were from. Third one sounds much better, but still not anywhere near top of class at that price point.



I think the AS10 sounds great even without my posted EQ. There is a some slightly unnatural sounds in upper mids but it's not a deal breaker for me. Will post review soon.

I'm supposed to get a geekwold soon. Only read one review so far on it. Not really sure what to expect.

My favorite sub $200 iems are the Campfire Comet and the Audeze iSine LX. Tin Audio T2 for under $100. The AS10 may top the t2 for everyday listen soon... We will see.


----------



## phower

rum_runner said:


> I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with the AS10.  As the freq. graphs posted here illustrate, and which I can verify through actual listening....the mids/vocals are very recessed and muted.  Mids/highs almost have a muddy quality to them as well, not clear or natural.  So far I remain very impressed with the KZ ZS10s in comparison, way better with much more clarity although slightly odd sound signature.


From the FR posted by here, the 300Hz to 2kHz are scooped out. Since the AS10 has only BAs, it should respond very well to EQ. A parametric EQ should fix it easily. 
F = 750Hz, Q = 750/(2000-300), Gain = +5


----------



## Slater

phower said:


> From the FR posted by here, the 300Hz to 2kHz are scooped out. Since the AS10 has only BAs, it should respond very well to EQ. A parametric EQ should fix it easily.
> F = 750Hz, Q = 750/(2000-300), Gain = +5



Actually, not every BA responds to EQ. On my Magaosi K5 (5xBA). I can’t use EQ at all - any change I made, no matter how minimal, resulted in massive distortion.


----------



## phower

Slater said:


> Actually, not every BA responds to EQ. On my Magaosi K5 (5xBA). I can’t use EQ at all - any change I made, no matter how minimal, resulted in massive distortion.


And you did set the pre-amp to -ve values as appropriate? 
Massive distortion implies either your signal is clipping or you tried to increase the sub-bass. EQing sub-bass is usually difficult  since the drivers don't respond very well due to physical excursion limits. 

I can't think of any other reason why it would result in distortion.


----------



## Podster

phower said:


> And you did set the pre-amp to -ve values as appropriate?
> Massive distortion implies either your signal is clipping or you tried to increase the sub-bass. EQing sub-bass is usually difficult  since the drivers don't respond very well due to physical excursion limits.
> 
> I can't think of any other reason why it would result in distortion.



Can't clipping also come from under or in most iem cases be from overpowering them as well?


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> Can't clipping also come from under or in most iem cases be from overpowering them as well?


Overpowering as in too much input power? That is unlikely since we hardly listen at 80dB average volume levels. Overpowering is when the sound output is in excess of 100 dB or more. Even at that level, only the THD increases the diaphragm is not touching anything. 

But clipping will occur very easily in the digital domain since most modern recordings have very little headroom. It is easy to exceed 0dBFS by EQ which results in clipping. That is why we reduce the level of the digital signal in the pre-amp by -3, -6 or -9 dB as appropriate.


----------



## Slater

phower said:


> And you did set the pre-amp to -ve values as appropriate?
> Massive distortion implies either your signal is clipping or you tried to increase the sub-bass. EQing sub-bass is usually difficult  since the drivers don't respond very well due to physical excursion limits.
> 
> I can't think of any other reason why it would result in distortion.



I played with different Rockbox settings and finally gave up. I got used to the stock signature anyways, so it all worked out in the end.

The K5 is an extremely sensitive IEM, and most people have hiss issues with it (although I never did). Maybe that had something to do with it not responding to EQ.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

B9Scrambler said:


> Couldn't disagree more on the AS10, but I'm right there with you on the GK3. That thing is wayyyy overrated at the moment. Have three on hand, all sound different. Aparently there were some qc issues with the first batch that my first two were from. Third one sounds much better, but still not anywhere near top of class at that price point.


P1 is not neutral at all. It is just diffused in response and sound unnaturally hollow.

Agree with TFZ queen, it is a tamed and better version of hibiki.

KZ AS10 on low volume(impedance adapter) is amazing.

Go try TFZ KING II and LTD. These blew my mind. TFZ KING LTD is like KING pro but lower impedance. King 2 is exclusive king with less sibilant treble. Something between series 4 and original king


----------



## antdroid

Here's an IEM Diffuse Field compensation for the AS10
 

And some size comparisons:


 
Left to Right: ZSA, Hibiki Mk2, AS10, ME1, T2


----------



## randomnin (Aug 17, 2018)

phower said:


> Finally, a mainstream website reviews KZ products.
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zs10


What are the mainstream reviewers? This site has pretty amazing data, who else does reviews so thoroughly? THD, imaging, isolation measurements, compensated frequency response graphs which seem very realistic (Innerfidelity graphs look much weirder). Awesome.
On the other hand, ZS10 beats Westone W40 (700USD), Shure SE425, Etymotic ER4XR in sound quality as per this reviewer. Also, it beats most of them by THD values and imaging. Who are these people? Don't they fear the audiophile gods? What about basic piety? Just wow.

I beckon your opinions on this cold hard data-driven insanity!


----------



## antdroid

randomnin said:


> What are the mainstream reviewers? This site has pretty amazing data, who else does reviews so thoroughly? THD, imaging, isolation measurements, compensated frequency response graphs which seem very realistic (Innerfidelity graphs look much weirder). Awesome.
> On the other hand, ZS10 beats Westone W40 (700USD), Shure SE425, Etymotic ER4XR in sound quality as per this reviewer. Also, it beats most of them by THD values and imaging. Who are these people? Don't they fear the audiophile gods? What about basic piety? Just wow.
> 
> I beckon your opinions on this cold hard data-driven insanity!



It would be neat if they started reviewing more audio-centric brands and not the big box store brands like Logitech, Bose, Plantronics, Samsung, and random Amazon/AliExpress brands etc. They do have a couple Hifiman and Shure products though. Overall though, I do like how the site does their reviews.

I posted a review of the KZ AS10 just now on here and at my website (antdroid.net). It's got a bunch of other graphs beyond what I posted here.


----------



## randomnin

Damn, I guess I'm buying ZS10, too, in the end. If not a fluke, that THD is like Shure SE535-level low. And all the other measurements are above-average.


----------



## phower

antdroid said:


> It would be neat if they started reviewing more audio-centric brands and not the big box store brands like Logitech, Bose, Plantronics, Samsung, and random Amazon/AliExpress brands etc.



Well, they have already covered every popular audio-centric brands like Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, AKG and Audio Technica. Headphones of these 4 manufacturers  are the only ones used in studios during mixing and mastering stages.  So, it wouldn't be fair to complain. 

Since they buy the products themselves they don't cover headphones that cost > $1000 or from boutique shops.


----------



## randomnin

phower said:


> Well, they have already covered every popular audio-centric brands like Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, AKG and Audio Technica. Headphones of these 4 manufacturers  are the only ones used in studios during mixing and mastering stages.  So, it wouldn't be fair to complain.
> 
> Since they buy the products themselves they don't cover headphones that cost > $1000 or from boutique shops.


Off-topic, but you seem to know so I'll ask while the studio equipment mention is still relevant - do they use open or closed headphones in studios?


----------



## phower

randomnin said:


> Off-topic, but you seem to know so I'll ask while the studio equipment mention is still relevant - do they use open or closed headphones in studios?


It is closed headphones only. Open air dynamic type are seldom used.


----------



## Zerohour88

antdroid said:


> Here's an IEM Diffuse Field compensation for the AS10
> 
> 
> And some size comparisons:
> ...



funny that people sneer at the size of the AS10, saying its made for ape's ears, when it looks a bit smaller than the Hibiki


----------



## dhruvmeena96

randomnin said:


> What are the mainstream reviewers? This site has pretty amazing data, who else does reviews so thoroughly? THD, imaging, isolation measurements, compensated frequency response graphs which seem very realistic (Innerfidelity graphs look much weirder). Awesome.
> On the other hand, ZS10 beats Westone W40 (700USD), Shure SE425, Etymotic ER4XR in sound quality as per this reviewer. Also, it beats most of them by THD values and imaging. Who are these people? Don't they fear the audiophile gods? What about basic piety? Just wow.
> 
> I beckon your opinions on this cold hard data-driven insanity!


Measurements are somewhat correct on ratings but he doesn't consider decay and phase shift, Which zs10 suffers.

2k decay and triple pierce decay is significant plus a weird roll off treble.

If this decay was tight, it would be simply one of the best iem


----------



## randomnin

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Measurements are somewhat correct on ratings but he doesn't consider decay and phase shift, Which zs10 suffers.
> 
> 2k decay and triple pierce decay is significant plus a weird roll off treble.
> 
> If this decay was tight, it would be simply one of the best iem


There are group delay and phase response measurements under imaging, whatever the hell those are.

Here are Delta QSD from a different source, and KZ results are average comparing to Etymotic. Suppose ZS10 wouldn't be much better.


----------



## myliferockkss

Hi guys,

Is it possible to make the ZST completely transparent? I dont like that checks pattern anymore.... Had seen someone posted it here sometime ago but not able to find it now...


----------



## Makahl

myliferockkss said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is it possible to make the ZST completely transparent? I dont like that checks pattern anymore.... Had seen someone posted it here sometime ago but not able to find it now...



Is that what you are looking for?


----------



## Slater (Aug 18, 2018)

myliferockkss said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is it possible to make the ZST completely transparent? I dont like that checks pattern anymore.... Had seen someone posted it here sometime ago but not able to find it
> now...



Here’s what you probably saw:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...hones-and-iems.820747/page-1062#post-14296410

The thing is that the ZST carbon back cover may be solid (opaque) plastic, not transparent. Mine (the ZST Colorful) IS transparent, so once you remove the letters you’re home free. On the carbon version, who knows what the plastic looks like underneath the carbon pattern. It is likely just plain black colored plastic.

You may be better off buying and modding a ZST Colorful if you want the clear look.

Or you could make a whole new back plate out of clear plexiglass (or wood or metal or abalone shell or any material honestly). The back cover on the ZST is totally flat with no vent holes, so it would be quite easy to make a new back.


----------



## notreal

Voxis9292 said:


> The ES4 is somewhat louder on the right side (maybe the cable) will check it later ... the zs3 cable should fit, right?


have you fixed this? I can confirm that too


----------



## notreal

who else have sound in one of ear shells louder sound then in another on any of KZ products?


----------



## myliferockkss

Makahl said:


> Is that what you are looking for?


Yup yup thats the one.... Super thanks

@Slater thanks man, will try it out ✌️✌️


----------



## Slater

notreal said:


> who else have sound in one of ear shells louder sound then in another on any of KZ products?



It’s called a channel imbalance. It happens sometimes, not just with KZ, and even on full size headphones.

Your options are:
1. contact seller and exchange for another pair
2. adjust left or right balance on your music source until the volume is equal. Usually it only needs to be adjusted a little bit.
3. just live with it.


----------



## Nabillion_786 (Aug 18, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> P1 is not neutral at all. It is just diffused in response and sound unnaturally hollow.
> 
> Agree with TFZ queen, it is a tamed and better version of hibiki.
> 
> ...


Was going to purchase the queen's but getting a bit put off now. Out of the queens, king ltd, and king 2, which one has the best full sounding bass, and good, thick sounding vocal performance?


----------



## Joong

Opinions on AS10 are polarized.
Should we wait until AS10 would have been stabilized or revised onto better way?


----------



## Zerohour88

Joong said:


> Opinions on AS10 are polarized.
> Should we wait until AS10 would have been stabilized or revised onto better way?



or better yet, find a reviewer that you trust/have similar taste or hearing proclivities to you and just see what he/she thinks? or buy the more reviewed stuff around chi-fi.

I dunno why you would want to wait for a revision, so far, only the ZS5 was the recent model that had a major revision. Either buy the AS10 based on limited reviews/impression or wait for more reviews or just buy something else if you're strained for time.


----------



## phower

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Measurements are somewhat correct on ratings but he doesn't consider decay and phase shift, Which zs10 suffers.
> 
> 2k decay and triple pierce decay is significant plus a weird roll off treble.
> 
> If this decay was tight, it would be simply one of the best iem



What the hell is triple pierce decay? A google search doesn't reveal anything. Is it some audiophile bullsh*t?  BAs have fast decay when compared to DD.


----------



## Zlivan

Don't worry, he'll explain it to you in a dozen equally understandable posts.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 18, 2018)

phower said:


> What the hell is triple pierce decay? A google search doesn't reveal anything. Is it some audiophile bullsh*t?  BAs have fast decay when compared to DD.



Triple pierce decay is when you get three ear piercings very very slowly. or one piercing per ear and a nose ring over time.


----------



## Slater (Aug 18, 2018)

phower said:


> What the hell is triple pierce decay? A google search doesn't reveal anything. Is it some audiophile bullsh*t?  BAs have fast decay when compared to DD.



Triple pierce decay is = 21 pierce decay divided by 7 pierce decay. Sheesh, everyone knows that!


----------



## rum_runner

dhruvmeena96 said:


> P1 is not neutral at all. It is just diffused in response and sound unnaturally hollow.
> 
> Agree with TFZ queen, it is a tamed and better version of hibiki.
> 
> ...



Thanks - will consider the other TFZs.  I don't agree with you re. the P1, and I'm not after neutral - but that being said they are way more neutral than most in my list.  They really need to be driven properly (LG G7 or external dac/amp - sound amazing on Audioquest DragonFly too) - and the bass is ok (but still not in great amounts) if driven properly and at higher volumes.   Really good sound stage, imaging, timbre - vocals and highs perfect...just that darn lack of bass.  I thought the P2 could be better and it certainly has more bass, but everything else about it is worse than the P1.   Right now I'm mainly switching between the P1 and the Revonext QT3 in terms of daily listening.....they are nothing alike at all but both cover a wide range of genres of music well.  AS10 mids/highs are so muffled without EQ it is unbelievable, just horrible.  Maybe mine are broken? but both sides?


----------



## randomnin

Fun and all, but I doubt that this avalanche of savagery is conducive to getting an answer from the triple-pierce-decay proponent himself


----------



## dhruvmeena96

phower said:


> What the hell is triple pierce decay? A google search doesn't reveal anything. Is it some audiophile bullsh*t?  BAs have fast decay when compared to DD.


2kHz, 6kHz and 8kHz decay or ringing

Check the other forum website like †††† for that. I dont wanna get banned from head fi for naming the other forum


----------



## dhruvmeena96

rum_runner said:


> Thanks - will consider the other TFZs.  I don't agree with you re. the P1, and I'm not after neutral - but that being said they are way more neutral than most in my list.  They really need to be driven properly (LG G7 or external dac/amp - sound amazing on Audioquest DragonFly too) - and the bass is ok (but still not in great amounts) if driven properly and at higher volumes.   Really good sound stage, imaging, timbre - vocals and highs perfect...just that darn lack of bass.  I thought the P2 could be better and it certainly has more bass, but everything else about it is worse than the P1.   Right now I'm mainly switching between the P1 and the Revonext QT3 in terms of daily listening.....they are nothing alike at all but both cover a wide range of genres of music well.  AS10 mids/highs are so muffled without EQ it is unbelievable, just horrible.  Maybe mine are broken? but both sides?


Rv QT3 is banned product here.


----------



## nxnje

Hello guys, some days of research and i'm here again..
So the es4 is not for me, tried their shape and it's quite ugly for my ear.
Ed9 is on the way.
Wanna buy one more: ZSA or ED16?
I have 2 little questions:
- Can someone compare ZSA and ED16? Bass, mids, treble, soundstage, imaging and instrument separation, isolation.
Really curious about which of them is the overall winner.
Main genres: edm, dubstep, hardstyle, psy, bass music, some rock and pop, downtempo, techno and so on. Many times i even listen to sia 
, dua lipa, adele and so on.
Small ears, so i think both fit me.
I know i have to change the cable if i have to buy an ed16.


----------



## pbui44

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Rv QT3 is banned product here.



Why, because this is a KZ-only thread?  I wouldn’t pay extra for it over the ZS6.



nxnje said:


> Hello guys, some days of research and i'm here again..
> So the es4 is not for me, tried their shape and it's quite ugly for my ear.
> Ed9 is on the way.
> Wanna buy one more: ZSA or ED16?
> ...



If you don’t have any other in-ears, then get the KZ ED16 and learn what IEMs are all about in sound.  If you have other in-ears and they are all closed-back, then get the KZ ZSA.

I have not heard the KZ ED16, but I have owned a few hybrids and multi-BA IEMs (like the Dunu DN-2000J, Aurisonics ASG-1plus, and Shure SE846), and I have to say that they are an acquired taste.  Why?  There is not much air flowing through the closed-backs, so how the driver(s) is(are) tuned is extremely important to create the sound characteristics that are typically air-dependent, like tonality and soundstage.  

That is why I like open-back and semi-open-back IEMs, which add more air flow and expanding the soundstage and adding tonality to the sound.  I owned the JVC FX700 and KZ ZS6, but have also heard the Audeze iSine20 and LCDi4, and personally favor the more semi-open sound of the FX700 to hear the notes and vocals better.  What else can I say?  The semi-open sound of the FX700 and ZS6 provide the details of an IEM with the soundstage of an on-ear and the tonality of a over-ear.


----------



## Slater (Aug 18, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Rv QT3 is banned product here.



No, the QT3 is NOT banned; the QT2 is.

There has been no specific ban put on the QT3, because it was not developed specifically for the banned seller (listed in my signature).

The QT2 was specifically developed for the banned seller, therefore it is banned.


----------



## phower

dhruvmeena96 said:


> 2kHz, 6kHz and 8kHz decay or ringing
> 
> Check the other forum website like †††† for that. I dont wanna get banned from head fi for naming the other forum


I don't know what that other website is. Searched google again for 2kHz, 6kHz and 8kHz decay. Nothing. Nada. No relevant results. 

Is there some published paper related to this? I am asking seriously. I have read so many AES papers that are freely available. I would like to learn.


----------



## antdroid

phower said:


> I don't know what that other website is. Searched google again for 2kHz, 6kHz and 8kHz decay. Nothing. Nada. No relevant results.
> 
> Is there some published paper related to this? I am asking seriously. I have read so many AES papers that are freely available. I would like to learn.



I wonder if he's referring to "ringing"


----------



## randomnin

Maybe the meaning was that specifically the ZS10 model has slow decay at the aforementioned frequencies, resulting in piercing sounds?


----------



## Zerohour88

pbui44 said:


> Why, because this is a KZ-only thread?  I wouldn’t pay extra for it over the ZS6.



check @Slater 's signature, there's a list of banned sellers and product on all of head-fi, not just here



Slater said:


> No, the QT3 is NOT banned; the QT2 is.
> 
> There has been no specific ban put on the QT3, because it was not developed specifically for the banned seller (listed in my signature).
> 
> The QT2 was specifically developed for the banned seller, therefore it is banned.



oh, that's news. So any update on S*nf*r too? there's the DT8 incoming, lol


----------



## thug behram

What's up guys. I wanna try my first KZ iem.... Which is the best model of if I want a lot of subbass and sparkly extended treble? Heavy v -shape with a big soundstage, etc?


----------



## pbui44 (Aug 18, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> check @Slater 's signature, there's a list of banned sellers and product on all of head-fi, not just here



What?  Did you catch me talking about Y****o?  

Wow, what a way to salt my waiting-for-ZSA-shipment wound.


----------



## Zerohour88

pbui44 said:


> What?  Did you catch me talking about Y****o?
> 
> Wow, what a way to salt my waiting-for-ZSA-shipment wound.



well, you did ask about why a RVN product was banned from being mentioned here. hence the statement.

tbh, I don't even know what's banned and what's not now, its so damn confusing with all these new sub-brands coming out.


----------



## nxnje

pbui44 said:


> If you don’t have any other in-ears, then get the KZ ED16 and learn what IEMs are all about in sound.  If you have other in-ears and they are all closed-back, then get the KZ ZSA.
> 
> I have not heard the KZ ED16, but I have owned a few hybrids and multi-BA IEMs (like the Dunu DN-2000J, Aurisonics ASG-1plus, and Shure SE846), and I have to say that they are an acquired taste.  Why?  There is not much air flowing through the closed-backs, so how the driver(s) is(are) tuned is extremely important to create the sound characteristics that are typically air-dependent, like tonality and soundstage.
> 
> That is why I like open-back and semi-open-back IEMs, which add more air flow and expanding the soundstage and adding tonality to the sound.  I owned the JVC FX700 and KZ ZS6, but have also heard the Audeze iSine20 and LCDi4, and personally favor the more semi-open sound of the FX700 to hear the notes and vocals better.  What else can I say?  The semi-open sound of the FX700 and ZS6 provide the details of an IEM with the soundstage of an on-ear and the tonality of a over-ear.



Thanks for the answer.
I have a pair of memt x5 (which i quite like) and a pair of AKG K321 (which i hate). The k321 is a little open back design, but i hate them so i can't appreciate or analyze how they sound.
The memt x5 is definitely closed-back iem.
I have a pair of KZ ED9 on the go, it has been shipped and i'm waiting for it.
I wanna buy one more, dunno as i would love a good headphone with a nice soundstage. People say the ED16 is a great pair of headphone but i think i may need a comparison between ED16 and ZSA. I'm even curious about the ZS6 but maybe it can't fit my small ears.


----------



## fatality_strykes

loomisjohnson said:


> the zsr (not the zst) has more extension at both ends and might be better for heavier genres





Wiljen said:


> Zsr has best extension of the 3 but fit is on the large side.



Just wanted to say thanks for suggesting the ZSR. Got it yesterday and while I'm no audophile, I like the sound so far. Will do a burn in soon using the "1more Assistant" app

Only gripe so far is that the small tips are really tough to attach.


----------



## HenrikPW

It seems that the ZS4 is now available for purchase on Aliexpress.


----------



## jeromeaparis

HenrikPW said:


> It seems that the ZS4 is now available for purchase on Aliexpress.


This seems to be the so much awaited inproved ZS3 mk2 with ba.
and the different colors for R & L, a good idea !


----------



## dhruvmeena96

antdroid said:


> I wonder if he's referring to "ringing"


Ringing going bonkers are piercing.

Thanks for clarifying bro


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Oye guys, is the tinaudio t2 still the champ out there

Or is there a new player


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> No, the QT3 is NOT banned; the QT2 is.
> 
> There has been no specific ban put on the QT3, because it was not developed specifically for the banned seller (listed in my signature).
> 
> The QT2 was specifically developed for the banned seller, therefore it is banned.


It was made in collab with e**y e******e as shown by aliexpress...

That's why I commented


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Oye guys, is the tinaudio t2 still the champ out there
> 
> Or is there a new player



There is never a champ as everyone likes different things and hears differently.

...and there are always new contenders...


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Aug 19, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> There is never a champ as everyone likes different things and hears differently.
> 
> ...and there are always new contenders...


I was thinking between iBasso it01 and TinAudio t2 now. I am collecting my collection back. And I somewhat forgot the signatures of both.. I have just written about them but I need one again.

I need soundstage, image and somewhat amazing sound. I remember T2 but not iBasso....so asking


----------



## mbwilson111

jeromeaparis said:


> This seems to be the so much awaited inproved ZS3 mk2 with ba.
> and the different colors for R & L, a good idea !



That photo does make it seem like there are different colors for R and L but when you go to the page the choices are red OR black.   Also mic or no mic.

The only other KZ that I want is still that purple one that has not been released.  At this point I don't care what it sounds like... lol.  I am sure it will be good though.


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I was thinking between iBasso it01 and TinAudio t2 now. I am collecting my collection back. And I somewhat forgot the signatures of both.. I have just written about them but I need one again.
> 
> I need soundstage, image and somewhat amazing sound. I remember T2 but not iBasso....so asking




I have the Ibasso but not the Tin Audio T2.  But this is the KZ thread so not really the place for this discusson...unless it was a KZ you wanted...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I was reading through the zs4

It has lcp diaphragm 8mm

That's crazy


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> I have the Ibasso but not the Tin Audio T2.  But this is the KZ thread so not really the place for this discusson...unless it was a KZ you wanted...


I reordered KZ es4 once again(best KZ so far) with separate 75ohm adapter and silver cable

Flagship sound after spinfit cp240 and adapter


----------



## Wiljen

I've got the QT3 and another EE coming that I'll have reviews up on my blog at some point.   With the turnover at those outfits, my guess is the people responsible for getting them banned more than likely now work for another seller that is allowed here anyway.  near impossible to keep up with who went where in this business even amongst the large players.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 19, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I was thinking between iBasso it01 and TinAudio t2 now. I am collecting my collection back. And I somewhat forgot the signatures of both.. I have just written about them but I need one again.
> 
> I need soundstage, image and somewhat amazing sound. I remember T2 but not iBasso....so asking



I posted a comparison & measurements between T2, T2 modded and AS10 here: http://www.antdroid.net/2018/08/tin-audio-t2-vs-kz-as10-in-depth.html


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Ohhh I just forgot....

I didn't choose both of them but the zhiyin z5000 QC fixed edition with silver cable.....

I forgot the nirvana iem.

That sound....I cannot forget in my entire life...


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> That sound....I cannot forget in my entire life...



I have lost track of what iem is being referred to.  So which is the nirvana iem?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> I have lost track of what iem is being referred to.  So which is the nirvana iem?


Zhiyin Z5000 mk2(QC fixed old version).

Its amazing....something like a powerful final e5000 in sound


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Tell me the best staging iem, which engulf me in super soundscape


----------



## randomnin

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Tell me the best staging iem, which engulf me in super soundscape


The correct answer for soundstage is: anything but IEM and earbuds.


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Tell me the best staging iem, which engulf me in super soundscape





randomnin said:


> The correct answer for soundstage is: anything but IEM and earbuds.



You might be surprised by some of the earbuds that are available now.  Ask that question in the Earbuds Roundup thread.


----------



## ChaoticKinesis (Aug 19, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I have and it seems to vary based on the seller more so than KZ itself.  I've had some sellers simply send a replacement while others have wanted the existing returned at a cost to me greater than just buying another set.  Not to plug any single vendor, but so far Gearbest that is a sponsor here has been excellent about sending replacements without much hassle.  The only downside is they usually are not anywhere near first in line when the new models come out so you have to wait a bit for them to get stock.   I think they just started advertising the AS10 yesterday for example.


Maybe you got lucky, but I couldn't even get GearBest to fix when they sent me the wrong item. They wanted me to pay to ship it back or offered me a $5 "courtesy" refund for the unshipped $25 item. And surprisingly, disputing through PayPal only upped my options to return at my expense or $10 refund so I'm never placing my faith in either of those two again.



TheVortex said:


> Wonder how the Hisenior B5+ compare to the all BA KZ's.
> 
> 5 x Knowles BA's versus 5 x KZ/Bellsing BA's.
> 
> Also they are so much more refined than my ED16 and ZS10.


Never seen these before. What exactly goes through the minds of these executives when they decide to name their product Hisenior?


----------



## Slater (Aug 19, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> So any update on S*nf*r too? there's the DT8 incoming, lol



**** as an entire brand is banned, because their whole brand is owned by the banned seller. It would be like if Toyota is banned, Lexus would be too because they are a brand directly owned by Toyota.

I know it’s confusing, but once you wrap your head around it, it’s pretty simple to keep it all straight. And I know not everyone agrees with any of it, but unfortunately they are not our rules.


----------



## Slater

dhruvmeena96 said:


> It was made in collab with e**y e******e as shown by aliexpress...
> 
> That's why I commented



Ah, you’re right. I see where they say that. When it 1st came out it did not say that.

Well, then yes the QT3 is also banned just like the QT2.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> tbh, I don't even know what's banned and what's not now, its so damn confusing with all these new sub-brands coming out.



It’s pretty straightforward. I break it down in my signature.


----------



## pbui44

nxnje said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> I have a pair of memt x5 (which i quite like) and a pair of AKG K321 (which i hate). The k321 is a little open back design, but i hate them so i can't appreciate or analyze how they sound.
> The memt x5 is definitely closed-back iem.
> I have a pair of KZ ED9 on the go, it has been shipped and i'm waiting for it.
> I wanna buy one more, dunno as i would love a good headphone with a nice soundstage. People say the ED16 is a great pair of headphone but i think i may need a comparison between ED16 and ZSA. I'm even curious about the ZS6 but maybe it can't fit my small ears.



The ZS6 will likely be too large for your small ears, so if you want a nice soundstage, get the ZSA next.  The BA10, If ever released, does not look good for small ears (or any ears with soft spots, really), but the AS10 might be worth buying at lower prices.  Plus, who knows what will be next for KZ?


----------



## Zerohour88

KZ BA10?

While I appreciate them doing something radical, it'd probably turn quite a few people off. They could make it look a bit more futuristic, color scheme already have an Iron-Man vibe to it. Mark III/War Machine, that is.


----------



## nxnje

pbui44 said:


> The ZS6 will likely be too large for your small ears, so if you want a nice soundstage, get the ZSA next.  The BA10, If ever released, does not look good for small ears (or any ears with soft spots, really), but the AS10 might be worth buying at lower prices.  Plus, who knows what will be next for KZ?



So the zs6 is out.
What about ed16 vs zsa? These are the two between i'm going to choose


----------



## TheVortex

ChaoticKinesis said:


> Maybe you got lucky, but I couldn't even get GearBest to fix when they sent me the wrong item. They wanted me to pay to ship it back or offered me a $5 "courtesy" refund for the unshipped $25 item. And surprisingly, disputing through PayPal only upped my options to return at my expense or $10 refund so I'm never placing my faith in either of those two again.
> 
> 
> Never seen these before. What exactly goes through the minds of these executives when they decide to name their product Hisenior?



No idea but they are a quality product. I need a 5 BA KZ to compare them with.


----------



## hiflofi

Zerohour88 said:


> KZ BA10?
> 
> While I appreciate them doing something radical, it'd probably turn quite a few people off. They could make it look a bit more futuristic, color scheme already have an Iron-Man vibe to it. Mark III/War Machine, that is.


They look far too sharp and large although my ears can fit various large universal IEMs no problem.
I'm more concerned about the sound. The AS10's recessed mids are making  me doubt KZ is ever going to come out with an IEM that has my preferred sound.


----------



## pbui44

nxnje said:


> So the zs6 is out.
> What about ed16 vs zsa? These are the two between i'm going to choose



You have small ears, so just go for the ZSA.  They are your ears and no one else’s ears.


----------



## nxnje

pbui44 said:


> You have small ears, so just go for the ZSA.  They are your ears and no one else’s ears.



I mean in terms of sound i'm undecided.
How can u compare them?
I mean: bass, mids, treble, soundstage (interesting thing for me), imaging and separation

The shape of the two is not a problem, i think they both fit me.


----------



## pbui44

nxnje said:


> I mean in terms of sound i'm undecided.
> How can u compare them?
> I mean: bass, mids, treble, soundstage (interesting thing for me), imaging and separation
> 
> The shape of the two is not a problem, i think they both fit me.



That is what I was trying to tell you a few posts ago.  I have not heard the ED16, but it is a closed-back, and from my previous experience with many IEMs and other audio equipment, that the ZSA is the best choice for soundstaging and other sound characteristics from its open-back nature that allows air to flow much more freely.  Plus, the ZSA is a few dollars cheaper.  How’s that?


----------



## Zerohour88

hiflofi said:


> They look far too sharp and large although my ears can fit various large universal IEMs no problem.
> I'm more concerned about the sound. The AS10's recessed mids are making  me doubt KZ is ever going to come out with an IEM that has my preferred sound.



thought the same about fit on the ZS5, that turned out fine for me so not really worried on that front. The design is a bit blocky, though some might like it. Else they can just get the AS10 (should be the same IEM but with different body on).

KZ is v-shaped traditionally, so I dunno why you'd wait for them to come out with something that's opposite of their design principle. Lots of other chi-fi stuff to look at, the various quad-drivers being released such as QT3, V80, KC2, EM023 comes to mind. Cheaper at RRP too. There's the Hisenior B5+ and IT01 if you want to go to around $100 (I can't even recall how many IEMs have been announced for this price bracket, waiting for impressions on the BGVP DMG too)


----------



## nxnje

pbui44 said:


> That is what I was trying to tell you a few posts ago.  I have not heard the ED16, but it is a closed-back, and from my previous experience with many IEMs and other audio equipment, that the ZSA is the best choice for soundstaging and other sound characteristics from its open-back nature that allows air to flow much more freely.  Plus, the ZSA is a few dollars cheaper.  How’s that?



I explain you my doubts.
While there was the ZS6 on the market many people online said KZ ZSR had a Huge soundatage compared to every other soundstage except zs5v1. KZ ZSR was a closed-back iem, so that's why i'm undecided.
You're saying the open back design helps the soundstage and depth of sound, and i know as i have some over the ear semi-open back headphones which i like.
Assuming the ED16 is a redefined ZSR with less bass and less aggressive treble + forward mids, i was thinkinf the soundstage on ed16 could be huge like on the ZSR and that's why i'm going around the question, nothing else.


----------



## pbui44

nxnje said:


> I explain you my doubts.
> While there was the ZS6 on the market many people online said KZ ZSR had a Huge soundatage compared to every other soundstage except zs5v1. KZ ZSR was a closed-back iem, so that's why i'm undecided.
> You're saying the open back design helps the soundstage and depth of sound, and i know as i have some over the ear semi-open back headphones which i like.
> Assuming the ED16 is a redefined ZSR with less bass and less aggressive treble + forward mids, i was thinkinf the soundstage on ed16 could be huge like on the ZSR and that's why i'm going around the question, nothing else.



Okay, so you have those who have owned many KZs, then you have those who have owned many IEMs up to $1,000, which is me.  Take your pick.


----------



## nxnje

pbui44 said:


> Okay, so you have those who have owned many KZs, then you have those who have owned many IEMs up to $1,000, which is me.  Take your pick.



I think we had a misunderstanding.
I'm not saying i do not trust you.
I'm saying that everyone states zsr had a huge soundstage, and it's surprising as it is closed back.
I was wondering if the ed16 has the same soundstage feature.
Not sure if i'm clear now.


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 19, 2018)

nxnje said:


> I mean in terms of sound i'm undecided.
> How can u compare them?
> I mean: bass, mids, treble, soundstage (interesting thing for me), imaging and separation
> 
> The shape of the two is not a problem, i think they both fit me.



ZSA are really tiny, great for very small ears. ED16 are bigger, but very well designed to fit small ears as well, because of its ergonomic and flat design.
i've tried ED16 for weeks, and ZSA for only some minutes.
to me, ED16 have strong sub-bass, while ZSA have strong mid-bass. ED16 mids seem to be forwarder than in ZSA. highs roll-off looks similar in both.
attending at their sound signature, i much prefer ED16. but ZSA are so cute..


----------



## dhruvmeena96

nxnje said:


> I think we had a misunderstanding.
> I'm not saying i do not trust you.
> I'm saying that everyone states zsr had a huge soundstage, and it's surprising as it is closed back.
> I was wondering if the ed16 has the same soundstage feature.
> Not sure if i'm clear now.


Soundstage is not equal to open back always..

Sony z7 and z1r are example and so is zsr. Actually final e4000(closed back) sounds way bigger than e2000(complete open back).

Open back tends to decay less and give a more open space for driver to breathe increasing the overall movement of diaphragm (zero pressure). But that has nothing to do with stage. Soundscape does get effected but that is not everything to make a heck of difference to the sensation of space.

KZ ZSR is crazy v shape and images pretty well(not accurate) creating a sense separation between instruments. Plus a 3 driver helps reduction in distortion and somewhat make the soundscape bigger.

Soundscape(the space) + sound image(perceived and tonal difference between instruments) = soundstage(perceived sense of space by stimulating brain)

ED16 is improved over signature by going little more flatter. The perceived bass effect, shimmer is reduced plus blended properly instead of the vivid contrast of ZSR making it sound more enjoyable but kills some so called stage. Image instead of giving a contrast of difference between instruments sounds more blended coherent and spaced in ED16, but due to less bass it sounds sibilant most of the time if compared to ZSR, but when ZSR shows sibilance, it really goes to the level of ZS6(not actually, but yup) which ED16 can never reach(that's true).

ED16 tries to reveal the intention of composer whereas ZSR tries to reveal all the instruments to listener. Bass guitar is used for blending the whole song and actually not heard but felt. ZSR makes you hear bass guitar


----------



## nxnje

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Soundstage is not equal to open back always..
> 
> Sony z7 and z1r are example and so is zsr. Actually final e4000(closed back) sounds way bigger than e2000(complete open back).
> 
> ...



Dunno if you own the ZSA or not, but could i ask you which one between ZSA and ED16 tends to have a bigger soundstage overall?
For now i'm really tempted in buying the ED16 but the ZSA are so freakin' interesting in terms of build factor.


----------



## nxnje

hakuzen said:


> ZSA are really tiny, great for very small ears. ED16 are bigger, but very well designed to fit small ears as well, because of its ergonomic and flat design.
> i've tried ED16 for weeks, and ZSA for only some minutes.
> to me, ED16 have strong sub-bass, while ZSA have strong mid-bass. ED16 mids seem to be forwarder than in ZSA. highs roll-off looks similar in both.
> attending at their sound signature, i much prefer ED16. but ZSA are so cute..



Thanks for your opinion, considering it!


----------



## dhruvmeena96

nxnje said:


> Dunno if you own the ZSA or not, but could i ask you which one between ZSA and ED16 tends to have a bigger soundstage overall?
> For now i'm really tempted in buying the ED16 but the ZSA are so freakin' interesting in terms of build factor.


ZSA focuses on vocal harmonic treble more. Like breathing and subtle effects. ZSA is more V shape.

But I am thinking of ZS4 because of silk woven hanger mostly seen in effect audio plus a closed back dynamic ZSA which can reduce the bass somewhat.

Openback means driver plus the ear area both are open. If you will open only driver area, it will make bass go monstrous because of driver air pressure limitation is removed.I think ZS4 will be less bassy and way more isolating ZSA. After all its more expensive than ED16 and ZSA on mrp


By the way ED16 outclasses ZSA in all department


----------



## Mirimar (Dec 1, 2018)

Deleted.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

@Slater 


Slater said:


> Ah, you’re right. I see where they say that. When it 1st came out it did not say that.
> 
> Well, then yes the QT3 is also banned just like the QT2.



LoL

I told you....

Bro, I need some suggestion

I need an iem with equal depth, height and width and should be actually good in representing all.

I was going for ocharaku Shizuku(brass is neutral, so a no no), ED9 black edition and hifiman re400 mmcx.

Tell me an alternative...


----------



## rum_runner

I really like the sound profile of the ed16 but there is just something unnatural about the timbre that I can't quite get - almost like as if I'm listening in a polystyrene box.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

rum_runner said:


> I really like the sound profile of the ed16 but there is just something unnatural about the timbre that I can't quite get - almost like as if I'm listening in a polystyrene box.


Its actually pretty easy to fix.

Get a comply foam tips with filter...done


----------



## TechnoidFR

Just receive my as10 and connected with USB C Cable


----------



## trumpethead (Aug 20, 2018)

Hey all, what tips are good for the AS10 and are the wires removable


----------



## TechnoidFR

trumpethead said:


> Hey fills, what tips are good for the AS10 and are the wires removable



I like stock tips. 
Wires removable yes. I use the USB C kz camec which is awesome


----------



## C2thew

Any coupon codes for the ZS4 yet?  It's one of the IEMS that i've been waiting for FOREVER.


----------



## Makahl

C2thew said:


> Any coupon codes for the ZS4 yet?  It's one of the IEMS that i've been waiting for FOREVER.



Idk it's rather new but PMing sellers on Aliexpress asking for a discount usually you can get $2-5 off (you need to follow these steps so the seller can edit the price to you). I've managed to get a discount of $30 just asking through PM recently.


----------



## tripside

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Its actually pretty easy to fix.
> 
> Get a comply foam tips with filter...done



Foam tips filter ? Can you elaborate


----------



## neo_styles

dhruvmeena96 said:


> @Slater
> 
> 
> LoL
> ...


I own the RE-400, but the model with a fixed cable. For that price, I think you'd be better off going with the single-DD unit that Noble put out on Massdrop. Build quality on the RE-400 is abysmal (I use them gently and still have insulation constantly pulling back from the Y and each earpiece. Knowing they've moved to a MMCX connection only gives me more worries.

Sound-wise, I also find them very analytical and there's a decent sense of space (though I wouldn't call it exceptionally wide, deep, nor high), which is the only reason I still have them in the collection. Just don't think you're going to get much bass information out of them; they definitely favor the upper mids and treble.


----------



## tuanathon

TechnoidFR said:


> I like stock tips.
> Wires removable yes. I use the USB C kz camec which is awesome



How is the USB C cables? I have been eyeing them, however, i havent seen any reviews for them yet.


----------



## rum_runner (Aug 20, 2018)

I just had another long session with the AS10s, and it will be the last.  Mine are either defective or they are just horrible.  Hollow recessed mids, muted treble - sound really cheap (and that was with InAir foam tips too) . The worst KZ phones I've heard and I think I have now tried almost all of the multi driver phones they offer.

Edit: OK after further listening and I don't know maybe something happened after I was tweaking the cables as per the thread below (but back to how I had them) I can't say they are horrible, especially depending on what I'm playing.  I moved on to some other genres and although the mid/high issue still is there, you definitely get used to it, on certain songs.  I still stand by they don't sound great on something say like Fleetwood Mac Rumours or Neil Young..  Switched to some modern Jazz....and acceptable.


----------



## HungryPanda

rum_runner said:


> I just had another long session with the AS10s, and it will be the last.  Mine are either defective or they are just horrible.  Hollow recessed mids, muted treble - sound really cheap (and that was with InAir foam tips too) . The worst KZ phones I've heard and I think I have now tried almost all of the multi driver phones they offer.


 Maybe they are out of phase, please try to reverse one of the plugs to one earphone and see if that makes a difference


----------



## rum_runner

HungryPanda said:


> Maybe they are out of phase, please try to reverse one of the plugs to one earphone and see if that makes a difference



The cable that came with them is actually keyed to the buds, the shape of the hole has to match up...I just checked and they are wired correctly as per that key.


----------



## neo_styles

rum_runner said:


> The cable that came with them is actually keyed to the buds, the shape of the hole has to match up...I just checked and they are wired correctly as per that key.


They're asking for you to swap because the polarity might be reversed internally. That's happened to quite a few people here. If it sounds hollow and more or less bass-less, that sounds like a textbook polarity problem.


----------



## rum_runner

neo_styles said:


> They're asking for you to swap because the polarity might be reversed internally. That's happened to quite a few people here. If it sounds hollow and more or less bass-less, that sounds like a textbook polarity problem.



OK thanks, I tried and the sound profile remained pretty much the same but slightly weird and fatiguing, so I think they likely were correct.


----------



## HungryPanda

My ZSA's came with one of the sides reversed, I had to open them and turn the connector 180 degrees, now all is well


----------



## rum_runner

HungryPanda said:


> My ZSA's came with one of the sides reversed, I had to open them and turn the connector 180 degrees, now all is well



I'm listening more with them out of phase and it really messes up the imaging.. Very strange, so definitely not the issue. But thanks.


----------



## HungryPanda

ok at least that rules that out


----------



## Slater (Aug 20, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> ok at least that rules that out



Well that only really rules out that the 2-pin is wired right.

KZ has (10) chances to screw up polarity on the AS10. It’s possible that 1 or more individual drivers are wired out of phase. It happened on quite a few ZS10.

Unfortunately, with more and more drivers there’s more and more chances for this to happen. It’s one of the downsides to the ‘more=better’ IEMs. It’s very very easy to accidentally solder a BA backwards - they’re barely larger than a single grain of rice.


----------



## stryed (Aug 20, 2018)

Slater said:


> Well that only really rules out that the 2-pin is wired right.
> 
> KZ has (10) chances to screw up polarity on the AS10. It’s possible that 1 or more individual drivers are wired out of phase. It happened on quite a few ZS10.
> 
> Unfortunately, with more and more drivers there’s more and more chances for this to happen. It’s one of the downsides to the ‘more=better’ IEMs. It’s very very easy to accidentally solder a BA backwards - they’re barely larger than a single grain of rice.



Fire those responsible and send them back to the rice fields!!!! 

“I like rice. Rice is great if you're hungry and want 2000 of something. ”
Mich Ehrenborg

I have money for 1, or two, not 2000 

Still have the AS10 on my radar but am worried about the ear tips being stuck in my ear like the KZ5 due to lack of lips...


----------



## antdroid

stryed said:


> Fire those responsible and send them back to the rice fields!!!!
> 
> “I like rice. Rice is great if you're hungry and want 2000 of something. ”
> Mich Ehrenborg
> ...



The AS10 has three little grooves on the side of the bore that stick out to hold tips in place. It's not a full lip though.


----------



## B9Scrambler

stryed said:


> Fire those responsible and send them back to the rice fields!!!!
> 
> “I like rice. Rice is great if you're hungry and want 2000 of something. ”
> Mich Ehrenborg
> ...



They have protrusions that act like a lip. You shouldn't have issues with tips falling off.


----------



## TechnoidFR

tuanathon said:


> How is the USB C cables? I have been eyeing them, however, i havent seen any reviews for them yet.



Is very good. Very very good sound ! Very detail and powerful ( too powerful for iem 16/32ohm )
Í reviewed it but In french... On YouTube.
It's far better than LG G7 for example


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> Well that only really rules out that the 2-pin is wired right.
> 
> KZ has (10) chances to screw up polarity on the AS10. It’s possible that 1 or more individual drivers are wired out of phase. It happened on quite a few ZS10.
> 
> Unfortunately, with more and more drivers there’s more and more chances for this to happen. It’s one of the downsides to the ‘more=better’ IEMs. It’s very very easy to accidentally solder a BA backwards - they’re barely larger than a single grain of rice.



Doesn’t a computer-controlled machine mount it?  They are expensive af, but keeps everything consistent.


----------



## Slater (Aug 20, 2018)

pbui44 said:


> Doesn’t a computer-controlled machine mount it?  They are expensive af, but keeps everything consistent.



Nope, not at the volumes KZ produces them in.

KZ typically only makes a few hundred pcs in the initial production run of a new model. That way, if the model is a failure (ED16) they don't lose too much money. This method also allows a company to make a number of different models in a shorter amount of time, so see which ones sell best. That's how KZ is able to pump out 15 new models in 2018 alone.

Anyways, it adds *significant* cost to make holding fixtures and do all of the machine programming for fully (or even partially) automating a manufacturing process. They _might_ consider automation if they wanted to make 100k-1M units/month.

Of course the shells are made on machines (aluminum shells on a CNC mill, and the plastic shells are cast). But all of the other processes are done by hand.

It's infinitely cheaper to pay *cough slave* labor to hand solder/hand assemble everything.

Here's photos of a typical Chinese earphone/headphone factory:


----------



## HungryPanda

Reminds me of my apprenticeship in the late 80's at ICI, there were warehouses of women sitting soldering components, it was my job to collect and repair the broken ones. The towns around me had full employment. Now that 20 square mile factory has long since vanished.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> Reminds me of my apprenticeship in the late 80's at ICI, there were warehouses of women sitting soldering components, it was my job to collect and repair the broken ones. The towns around me had full employment. Now that 20 square mile factory has long since vanished.



Pretty cool.

Although the sad thing is that no one collects the broken ones nowadays.  They just go out the door broken!


----------



## HungryPanda

These were heavy duty industrial ones, easily repaired, I did that for three months, those and other portable appliances then it was off to the Ammonium Nitrate department


----------



## stryed

HungryPanda said:


> Reminds me of my apprenticeship in the late 80's at ICI, there were warehouses of women sitting soldering components, it was my job to collect and repair the broken ones. The towns around me had full employment. Now that 20 square mile factory has long since vanished.



I hope you are well fed HungryPanda. As for the people back there, all they care for is having a nice rest where they work, and sending some income back to their savings account or their family. I'm French, but grew up in HongKong and have taylored suits & electronics guilt.
These industryies are dynamic, and can easily change from 1000 to 100K I'm certain of it...Will the same heads be around? Who knows...


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm well fed thanks, still in full employment. I work for a large hospital trust in London now and will till I retire


----------



## SHAMuuu

Got zs10 with dead right speaker.... CHINA QC ftw

well its not completely dead, the DD is dead, absolutely no bass, and the volume is like 10% of the left.

I feel a bit queasy

After ALL the waiting for these to ship from China too...

My confidence in KZ is very low atm


----------



## randomnin

HungryPanda said:


> I'm well fed thanks, still in full employment. I work for a large hospital trust in London now and will till I retire


Unleeess... Trade wars!... Technological displacement!... Brexit!... Too many immigrants!... Too little immigrants!... BOO!


----------



## antdroid

Posted new review and measurements of KZ ZSA: http://www.antdroid.net/2018/08/kz-zsa-improved-zs6.html 

also mirrored it on headfi: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/20770/


----------



## benbammens

Seems there will be a sale in 6 days on Aliexpress with a lot of IEM's and headphones including KZ items.


----------



## svosin

benbammens said:


> Seems there will be a sale in 6 days on Aliexpress with a lot of IEM's and headphones including KZ items.


Looks like it's going to be a typical AE "sale" where prices get doubled and then halved. Almost the same price, but with the "yay sale!" tag.


----------



## trumpethead (Aug 21, 2018)

rum_runner said:


> I just had another long session with the AS10s, and it will be the last.  Mine are either defective or they are just horrible.  Hollow recessed mids, muted treble - sound really cheap (and that was with InAir foam tips too) . The worst KZ phones I've heard and I think I have now tried almost all of the multi driver phones they offer.





rum_runner said:


> I just had another long session with the AS10s, and it will be the last.  Mine are either defective or they are just horrible.  Hollow recessed mids, muted treble - sound really cheap (and that was with InAir foam tips too) . The worst KZ phones I've heard and I think I have now tried almost all of the multi driver phones they offer.



Mine sound great with the stock tips upon first listen. Yes the mids are a bit recessed but not to the extreme. Had a little trouble getting a good fit with the stock wire but it came together with some manipulation. Not sounding cheap at all. Gonna try with foam tomorrow. Overall very pleased so far..


----------



## b3vcard (Aug 21, 2018)

Just got my AS10 and I have to say these sound horrible, but I don't know if its me. My reference is the ZST Colorful that I have been using for months and they sound far far better. I may return them.

They just sound very ''muddy'' and not clear at all. I actually got two cables with these and tried them both, to no avail.


----------



## Slater

SHAMuuu said:


> Got zs10 with dead right speaker.... CHINA QC ftw
> 
> well its not completely dead, the DD is dead, absolutely no bass, and the volume is like 10% of the left.
> 
> ...



Can you get replacements under warranty from the seller?


----------



## toddy0191

b3vcard said:


> Just got my AS10 and I have to say these sound horrible, but I don't know if its me. My reference is the ZST Colorful that I have been using for months and they sound far far better. I may return them.
> 
> They just sound very ''muddy'' and not clear at all. I actually got two cables with these and tried them both, to no avail.



Just received mine and couldn't disagree more.  They appear far superior to the ZST in every aspect. 

Sounds like there are some QC issues going on, or people's expectations of what they are going to sound like are off.


----------



## david8613

I am still waiting for my my zs10, how long does shipping normally take I'm here in the states?


----------



## Slater (Aug 21, 2018)

david8613 said:


> I am still waiting for my my zs10, how long does shipping normally take I'm here in the states?



I assume you checked the tracking number?

None of us could possibly know where you bought it from, what seller, if it was in stock at the time, how many days the seller processed the order before shipping, or what shipping method the seller used.

I would suggest checking with the seller or the shipping company using the tracking number.


----------



## david8613

order from gear best, tracking doesn't show anything I can see.


----------



## B9Scrambler

david8613 said:


> order from gear best, tracking doesn't show anything I can see.



Give 17Track a go if you haven't already: https://www.17track.net/en


----------



## Slater (Aug 21, 2018)

david8613 said:


> order from gear best, tracking doesn't show anything I can see.



Gearbest customer service is top notch. If you can’t find it using the tracking site B9 listed below, I would recommend contacting Gearbest.

Also, depending on which shipping method you chose at checkout, times from Gearbest to USA could range from as little as 7 days to as many as 60 days.

If you chose the “free” shipping with no insurance or tracking, it will take 30-45 days in most cases (but can take as many as 60).


----------



## b3vcard (Aug 21, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Just received mine and couldn't disagree more.  They appear far superior to the ZST in every aspect.
> 
> Sounds like there are some QC issues going on, or people's expectations of what they are going to sound like are off.



Yeah, there is definitely something wrong with my pair. There is virtually no bass, no thump whatsoever.

I don't believe it is me as I had the ATE's before the Colorful and they were far better too.

EDIT: Another issue with them is that the sound, or some of the sound, appears to be slightly more on the left side rather than balanced in the middle, if that makes any sense?


----------



## antdroid

b3vcard said:


> Yeah, there is definitely something wrong with my pair. There is virtually no bass, no thump whatsoever.
> 
> I don't believe it is me as I had the ATE's before the Colorful and they were far better too.
> 
> EDIT: Another issue with them is that the sound, or some of the sound, appears to be slightly more on the left side rather than balanced in the middle, if that makes any sense?



Check seal with tips and cable connection as a start 

Bass doesn't have as much impact as some other KZ headphones. Don't remember what zst sounds like though. The mids are less recessed so bass wont sound as exaggerated plus BA will thump less than a dynamic driver usually.


----------



## Slater (Aug 21, 2018)

b3vcard said:


> Yeah, there is definitely something wrong with my pair. There is virtually no bass, no thump whatsoever.
> 
> I don't believe it is me as I had the ATE's before the Colorful and they were far better too.
> 
> EDIT: Another issue with them is that the sound, or some of the sound, appears to be slightly more on the left side rather than balanced in the middle, if that makes any sense?



Have you ever heard an all-BA IEM? While I’ve never personally heard the AS10, all-BA IEMs can often be disappointing to people that are used to IEMs with dynamic drivers and their big powerful sub bass. I mention this because you are comparing them to your ATE and ZST (which both have plenty of low end).

And yes, that even includes multi-BA IEMs with ‘bass’ drivers. They still do not extend as deep and powerfully as dynamic drivers.

Unfortunately, the difficult thing with your situation is that it is possible that some of the drivers could be internally wired out of phase (or defective). Depending on the driver, it could cause a lack of sub bass.

So the bottom line is that there could be something wrong (some sort of QC defect), or absolutely nothing wrong at all (and the problem is based on expectations).

The only way to know for sure is to compare them to a known good pair of AS10.


----------



## toddy0191

b3vcard said:


> Yeah, there is definitely something wrong with my pair. There is virtually no bass, no thump whatsoever.
> 
> I don't believe it is me as I had the ATE's before the Colorful and they were far better too.
> 
> EDIT: Another issue with them is that the sound, or some of the sound, appears to be slightly more on the left side rather than balanced in the middle, if that makes any sense?



Have you tried the phase test on:

https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

You'll be able to tell if they're out of phase.


----------



## Slater (Aug 21, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Have you tried the phase test on:
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> 
> You'll be able to tell if they're out of phase.



With 10 BA drivers, it will be extremely difficult to know if (1) individual BS driver is wired out of phase.

The phase tests (like the one you posted) are very helpful, but they check the output of the whole IEM at once.


----------



## Wiljen

With the reversed phase BA I had in the Zs10, the biggest audible difference was that it had a really hollow, distant sounding band in the mids and lower treble.  It was like you had three different signatures,  From low-mids down was full and intimate, from mid through low treble was veiled and distant and then had good air at the top.  It isn't easy to immediately pick out that it is a reversed phase driver causing the problem but you will definitely here some strange behaviors if it is.  One way to test some is to use an EQ to cut all but certain bands and see how each distinct range sounds by itself at that helps isolate each driver.


----------



## toddy0191

Slater said:


> With 10 drivers, it will be extremely difficult to know if (1) individual driver is wired out of phase.



I was talking about one whole side being out of phase sorry.  I didn't know about my unmentionable iem being out of phase until checking that site,  it just sounded off.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> One way to test some is to use an EQ to cut all but certain bands and see how each distinct range sounds by itself at that helps isolate each driver.



Great idea!

Cookie for you


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> I was talking about one whole side being out of phase sorry.  I didn't know about my unmentionable iem being out of phase until checking that site,  it just sounded off.



You’re talking about the KZ AS10, right? If so, that’s perfectly mentionable.

Only the things listed in the banned link in my signature are affected.


----------



## toddy0191

Slater said:


> You’re talking about the KZ AS10, right? If so, that’s perfectly mentionable.
> 
> Only the things listed in the banned link in my signature are affected.



No,  my AS10 are fine, in fact they sound fantastic. It was the RN QT2 that was out of phase and it wasn't until I followed that link that I realised.


----------



## david8613

B9Scrambler said:


> Give 17Track a go if you haven't already: https://www.17track.net/en


thanks yes on the the 18th they were In new York, usps so im in new jersey so anyday now yippie! thanks


----------



## B9Scrambler

david8613 said:


> thanks yes on the the 18th they were In new York, usps so im in new jersey so anyday now yippie! thanks



Glad it worked! Hope you enjoy your new toy


----------



## kukkurovaca

It's interesting that people are getting such divergent results with the AS10. Have folks compared notes regarding the impedance of their sources?


----------



## Slater

kukkurovaca said:


> It's interesting that people are getting such divergent results with the AS10. Have folks compared notes regarding the impedance of their sources?



Reminds me of what happened with the ZS10. Some QC defects mixed in with other issues (fit, source, etc), with a healthy dose of hype and/or expectation bias. The result was opinions being all over the place.


----------



## dcpmale

I lost touch with the field after I got my zs3 about 2 years ago. Now I'm in search for a new IEM. Is there anything from KZ which is identical to everything VE Monk + ZS3's mid bass + ATE's sub bass?


----------



## hiflofi (Aug 21, 2018)

The conflicting views on the AS10 are precisely why subjective reviews of entry-level IEMs here (it's even worse on YT) are imperfect indicators of the IEM's performance.
Just watched a reviewer on YT say the AS10 was the first all-BA IEM they'd heard. That's so awful that the only positive thing to take away from that revelation is that at least they're honest about their limitations.
The hype from entry level hifi enthusiasts kills all rational reactions to the purchase.
Some reviewers are willling to feed into the hype of their viewers, driving sales of what could be a mediocre IEM, finally leading to negativity toward the product when they don't get the giant-killing KZ that they expect.
I'm a relative newbie to the hifi hobby but I've tasted TOTL. I encourage just trying TOTL stuff so that you can watch or read these "KZ = BEST WORLD-BEATING $50 IEM EVERRR!!" reviews with some real perspective.
With the R&D, effort in QC/tuning that KZ put in, and the profit margins that KZ operate at, I think the AS10 may be KZ hitting their ceiling at least until budget chifi can find another breakthrough.


----------



## SHAMuuu

Slater said:


> Can you get replacements under warranty from the seller?



Nah. Got to return them to NJ.Then i get refund. Then if i wish re-order and wait like 45-60 days 

fun stuff


----------



## Slater (Aug 21, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> The conflicting views on the AS10 are precisely why subjective reviews of entry-level IEMs here (it's even worse on YT) are imperfect indicators of the IEM's performance.
> Just watched a reviewer on YT say the AS10 was the first all-BA IEM they'd heard. That's so awful that the only positive thing to take away from that revelation is that at least they're honest about their limitations.
> The hype from entry level hifi enthusiasts kills all rational reactions to the purchase.
> Some reviewers are willling to feed into the hype of their viewers, driving sales of what could be a mediocre IEM, finally leading to negativity toward the product when they don't get the giant-killing KZ that they expect.
> ...



AS10 aside, anyone who treats ANY YouTube review for anything other than with a grain of salt is not doing their due diligence (and honestly they deserve to be disappointed). Any schmuck with a phone can make a “review” video.

I’m not saying that there aren’t credible reviewers on YouTube. I’m saying that just watching a YouTube video and instantly buying a product based solely on that video shows seriously poor judgement.

It’s like movie reviews. There’s lots of opinions, but I need to see the movie for myself to be the ultimate judge.

All reviews, movies or IEMs, on YouTube or HeadFi, should be treated as 1 piece of a research puzzle. It’s information gathering, that should be combined with information from other sources. Only then will a true picture emerge. But again, it still means nothing until you hear an IEM with your own ears (or see a movie with your own eyes).


----------



## B9Scrambler

hiflofi said:


> The conflicting views on the AS10 are precisely why subjective reviews of entry-level IEMs here (it's even worse on YT) are imperfect indicators of the IEM's performance.
> Just watched a reviewer on YT say the AS10 was the first all-BA IEM they'd heard. That's so awful that the only positive thing to take away from that revelation is that at least they're honest about their limitations.
> The hype from entry level hifi enthusiasts kills all rational reactions to the purchase.
> Some reviewers are willling to feed into the hype of their viewers, driving sales of what could be a mediocre IEM, finally leading to negativity toward the product when they don't get the giant-killing KZ that they expect.
> ...



I've spent plenty of time with high end gear and the AS10 holds it's own. It's not the best thing since sliced bread nor a "giant killer", but it does compete with pricier stuff and is well worth the current cost of entry. It also shows KZ is willing to put more effort in to improve their product. It's their first all-BA earphone. It's their first with a separate enclosure to house the drivers. It's their first with individual outputs for said drivers. All stuff you see on higher end gear. If people would look at budget gear with a realistic mind set and not go in expecting a 70 USD Andromeda every time one of them gets a positive review, we'd all be better off...


----------



## Slater (Aug 21, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> If people would look at budget gear with a realistic mind set and not go in expecting a 70 USD Andromeda every time one of them gets a positive review, we'd all be better off...



Haha, ain’t that the truth.

And that’s the sucky thing about YouTube reviews in particular. With ZS6 review titles like “$50 Andromeda Killer??” and the like, it’s easy to see where inexperienced viewers can get these ridiculous ideas from.


----------



## hiflofi

Slater said:


> AS10 aside, anyone who treats ANY YouTube review for anything other than with a grain of salt is not doing their due diligence (and honestly they deserve to be disappointed). Any schmuck with a phone can make a “review” video.
> 
> I’m not saying that there aren’t credible reviewers on YouTube. I’m saying that just watching a YouTube video and instantly buying a product based solely on that video shows seriously poor judgement.
> 
> ...





B9Scrambler said:


> I've spent plenty of time with high end gear and the AS10 holds it's own. It's not the best thing since sliced bread nor a "giant killer", but it does compete with pricier stuff and is well worth the current cost of entry. It also shows KZ is willing to put more effort in to improve their product. It's their first all-BA earphone. It's their first with a separate enclosure to house the drivers. It's their first with individual outputs for said drivers. All stuff you see on higher end gear. If people would look at budget gear with a realistic mind set and not go in expecting a 70 USD Andromeda every time one of them gets a positive review, we'd all be better off...


I'd say a lot of of the early adopters of the AS10 in this thread are feeling that right now.
I'm not commenting on anything besides how appalling and uninformed some reviewers can be and how that's forming a dark cloud over this whole hifi schtick (which clearly has been lingering for a long time now). What worsens this is the lack of scepticism or rationalisation via general sunk cost fallacy.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> AS10 aside, anyone who treats ANY YouTube review for anything other than with a grain of salt is not doing their due diligence (and honestly they deserve to be disappointed). Any schmuck with a phone can make a “review” video.
> 
> I’m not saying that there aren’t credible reviewers on YouTube. I’m saying that just watching a YouTube video and instantly buying a product based solely on that video shows seriously poor judgement.
> 
> ...



I'm careful with this on my YouTube review. I try to have other opinion/review to be the most detailed and most objective as possible. And I'm alone on YouTube french chifi... But most of review are so...empty...


----------



## bhazard (Aug 21, 2018)

Got my AS10 today. Best KZ yet. It's fantastic. Nice slight V shape without very little mid recession, great soundstage. Huge value.

This is with 10 min of listening and no EQ.

This can hold it's own next to my LZ-a5 and sounds way better than the $200+ HK6 I had.

There's a surprising amount of well defined bass as well. You won't miss not having a dynamic.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 21, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> The conflicting views on the AS10 are precisely why subjective reviews of entry-level IEMs here (it's even worse on YT) are imperfect indicators of the IEM's performance.
> Some reviewers are willling to feed into the hype of their viewers, driving sales of what could be a mediocre IEM, finally leading to negativity toward the product when they don't get the giant-killing KZ that they expect.
> I'm a relative newbie to the hifi hobby but I've tasted TOTL. I encourage just trying TOTL stuff so that you can watch or read these "KZ = BEST WORLD-BEATING $50 IEM EVERRR!!" reviews with some real perspective.
> With the R&D, effort in QC/tuning that KZ put in, and the profit margins that KZ operate at, I think the AS10 may be KZ hitting their ceiling at least until budget chifi can find another breakthrough.





B9Scrambler said:


> I've spent plenty of time with high end gear and the AS10 holds it's own. It's not the best thing since sliced bread nor a "giant killer", but it does compete with pricier stuff and is well worth the current cost of entry. It also shows KZ is willing to put more effort in to improve their product. It's their first all-BA earphone. It's their first with a separate enclosure to house the drivers. It's their first with individual outputs for said drivers. All stuff you see on higher end gear. If people would look at budget gear with a realistic mind set and not go in expecting a 70 USD Andromeda every time one of them gets a positive review, we'd all be better off...





hiflofi said:


> I'd say a lot of of the early adopters of the AS10 in this thread are feeling that right now.
> I'm not commenting on anything besides how appalling and uninformed some reviewers can be and how that's forming a dark cloud over this whole hifi schtick (which clearly has been lingering for a long time now). What worsens this is the lack of scepticism or rationalisation via general sunk cost fallacy.



I personally do think the AS10 is a good IEM. It's not a world beater, and it's not better than a Campfire Comet (though very close) or Massdrop Plus or iSine, but it's a good IEM with a pleasant sound, and i think KZ finally got something right. I have yet to buy into KZ Hypedom. I've tried a few of their IEMs in the past and never enjoyed them for whatever reason, but the AS10 is the first one I can honestly say I enjoyed a lot. I still prefer my Unique Melody ME1/iSine 10 over it though. 

I'm relatively new to posting slightly more in-depth reviews on headphones but I used to do it for music. It's all subjective. Music and listening (via headphones or speakers) has some raw emotion to it and some technical aspects. I think it's important to include both of that if possible. My reviews I've been posting add a little science to it since I'm a nerd like that. I have been trying to use some of my own measurements. But I'm still new to this whole thing and I would love any feedback. I'm sure feedback to YT reviewers would be helpful for them as well. 

One thing I try not to do is compare something beyond it's league. I think that's a tad over-hyping and over-selling something. I try to compare things in it's own price range or just beyond and just below it (if at all possible). I know in a review I posted on the T2, I wrote that I sold some higher priced IEMs because I had it, and that was the truth. But I stated that it wasn't a killer of them. It was just good enough for my own personal usage.

tl;dr
If someone is telling you that a KZ ZS6 is an Andromeda killer. They better have something to back it up with. lol
But... I think the AS10 is technically superior to all of the previous KZ IEMs I've heard.

note: i'm not a basshead. i'm not a v-sig dude either. so, take it for what it is.


----------



## Joong (Aug 22, 2018)

How do you compare AS10 to some good pair of full size phones like hd600s, X2, or even high regarded phones like Hd800s?
It will be curious and can provide us with a chance to enjoy high quality of sound with lot less money.
Common sense regarding to this comparision is regarded as some sense of blesphemy or at least not apple to apple but orange.
However the comparioson is simply acsoustic pressure waves through ear channels after all.
There is no reason why not.


----------



## TechnoidFR

I perceive something special with the as10. 
The sound is different,I took it's big BA which diffuse sound differently than a classic DD. I hear a more constant sound, more accurate, more controlled. I didn't say exactly my feeling but my head has wow effect. I've not the same feeling than zs10 where the tuning is different and have DD. I feel a better sound, more clean, more natural more...I don't know

Have you the same feeling ? It's weird


----------



## ChrisGarrett

hiflofi said:


> The conflicting views on the AS10 are precisely why subjective reviews of entry-level IEMs here (it's even worse on YT) are imperfect indicators of the IEM's performance.
> Just watched a reviewer on YT say the AS10 was the first all-BA IEM they'd heard. That's so awful that the only positive thing to take away from that revelation is that at least they're honest about their limitations.
> The hype from entry level hifi enthusiasts kills all rational reactions to the purchase.
> Some reviewers are willling to feed into the hype of their viewers, driving sales of what could be a mediocre IEM, finally leading to negativity toward the product when they don't get the giant-killing KZ that they expect.
> ...



That's why in this hobby and standard stereo/MC HiFi, one needs to 'know' the reviewer, know his/her experiences and understand their biases, because everybody who's ever done a review of anything, has biases.

Once you understand their biases and predilections, you're now better informed.

Chris


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Any idea how the AS10 compared to TRN V80?


----------



## b3vcard

So, the KZ shop is requesting that I make a video with the sound playing for their engineers. I mean, I cannot see how they will be able to get any real value from a crappy video of IEM's.


----------



## Wiljen (Aug 22, 2018)

Joong said:


> How do you compare AS10 to some good pair of full size phones like hd600s, X2, or even high regarded phones like Hd800s?



You don't - no iem is going to have a soundstage or comfort like an open back over ear headphone so comparing these is like comparing a Ferrari and a school bus since they are both technically vehicles.
A more fair comparison would be to a IEM in the same price range with the HD600s or the HD800s.  So for that, lets take the Brainwavz b400 at $200 as the HD600 price range and the Empire Ears ESR as the HD800 analogue. 

AS10 vs b400 - these are reasonably close in overall with the extension at the low end being better on the AS10 while the detail and timbre is a bit better on the b400.   The b400 is flatter than the As10 which is V shaped and a bit elevated in the mid-bass by comparison.   For fit, the b400 wins hands down as it is smaller and more rounded while the AS10 feels kind of blocky. 
This shows that the AS10 can indeed compete with things in the $200 price point and does show that Kz is learning and improving.   Comparatively, I wouldn't put the Zs10 on the same playing field with the b400 as the b400 wipes the floor with it.  Kz should have skipped the Zs10 entirely in my estimation as it did little well when compared to other models they already had and fit was a BIG problem for many as large as it is.

As10 vs ESR - no contest at all.  ESR wipes the floor with the As10 in every possible category.   More detail, better neutrality, better build , better fit, more responsive to EQ, better timbre.  I cannot think of one thing where the As10 comes even close enough to make me stop and think about it.  Put simply these are not in the same class nor should they be treated as if they were.


----------



## nxnje

I will never understand the way they work.
The seller that sold me my memt x5 which were defective told me to make a video about the problem

Then... tell me how the hell can my smartphone capture the audio coming from a 6mm driver headphone.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 22, 2018)

Hard to compare iem to headphones. iSine and ME1 are closest I've heard but they still fall short of a headphone similarly priced


----------



## audionab

i wonder how zs4 will sound like


----------



## b3vcard

Ok, I have listened to a good range of music on the AS10's now. My previous comment on bass response was wrong, I believe I was listening to a badly mastered track that just didn't actually have any.

-Bass is fine.
- Treble is not great. It's just not that ''detailed''? The ZST I have is far more detailed. 
- The mids and highs appear like they are 'far away' if that makes any sense?


----------



## maheeinfy

New ZS6 owner here. I removed the stock eartips and can't seem to get them back on. The opening is just not big enough to easily slide into place on the ZS6

Are there any suggestions from owners on this?


----------



## pbui44 (Aug 22, 2018)

maheeinfy said:


> New ZS6 owner here. I removed the stock eartips and can't seem to get them back on. The opening is just not big enough to easily slide into place on the ZS6
> 
> Are there any suggestions from owners on this?



Fold the outer eartip covering up to make a bowl-like-shape and take your index finger and thumb to pinch the eartip nozzle to an oval shape, place the elongated part onto the ZS6 nozzle, then very lightly ease the pinch to fold the rest of the eartip nozzle over the ZS6 nozzle very carefully, until the eartip nozzle is all-around over the ZS6 nozzle.  Now, and thanks only to the ZS6’s aluminum nozzle, gently but firmly twist down the eartip nozzle to completely fit the eartip nozzle over the ZS6 nozzle as much as possible.  Hope this helps.


----------



## mbwilson111

maheeinfy said:


> New ZS6 owner here. I removed the stock eartips and can't seem to get them back on. The opening is just not big enough to easily slide into place on the ZS6
> 
> Are there any suggestions from owners on this?



flip the tip inside out so the tube part is sticking out.. then you can easily see what you are doing to work it on to the nozzle.  Once it is on,  then flip it back into position.


----------



## C2thew (Aug 22, 2018)

Does anyone know how to open up the TRN bluetooth cable?  Mine seems to have died from all the running I've been doing.  (this is the TRN version and not the newer KZ version)

nvm i've gotten it open.  you have to open it from the cable side.  pictures to come.


----------



## maheeinfy

pbui44 said:


> Fold the outer eartip covering up to make a bowl-like-shape and take your index finger and thumb to pinch the eartip nozzle to an oval shape, place the elongated part onto the ZS6 nozzle, then very lightly ease the pinch to fold the rest of the eartip nozzle over the ZS6 nozzle very carefully, until the eartip nozzle is all-around over the ZS6 nozzle.  Now, and thanks only to the ZS6’s aluminum nozzle, gently but firmly twist down the eartip nozzle to completely fit the eartip nozzle over the ZS6 nozzle as much as possible.  Hope this helps.


Thanks. I tried this way and still can't seem to get it working. The tip opening is not big enough. I will try again later using a tweezer to increase size of the tip opening.

I did not face this issue when changing tips on my iSine20. Also, I tried putting the tips from iSine onto ZS10 and it fits like a glove.


----------



## Makahl

C2thew said:


> Does anyone know how to open up the TRN bluetooth cable?  Mine seems to have died from all the running I've been doing.  (this is the TRN version and not the newer KZ version)
> 
> nvm i've gotten it open.  you have to open it from the cable side.  pictures to come.



Maybe try to dry it out? Leaving it in a bowl with uncooked rice or silica gel for 1-2 days can be helpful.


----------



## mbwilson111

Makahl said:


> Maybe try to dry it out? Leaving it in a bowl with uncooked rice or silica gel for 1-2 days can be helpful.



Sometimes I wish I had saved all those silica gel packets that come with so many things.

... I am laughing picturing someone placing an iem or device into a bowl of cooked rice  Good thing you mentioned it needs to be uncooked


----------



## C2thew

Makahl said:


> Maybe try to dry it out? Leaving it in a bowl with uncooked rice or silica gel for 1-2 days can be helpful.



It's not taking a charge at all and the device is currently dry.  I think i might be out $23.  I doubt there is a warranty on these.


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> Sometimes I wish I had saved all those silica gel packets that come with so many things.
> 
> ... I am laughing picturing someone placing an iem or device into a bowl of cooked rice  Good thing you mentioned it needs to be uncooked



Ask your pharmacist for a handful of the big desiccant packs.  All the drug shipments come with one the size of a softball in them and usually the drug stores throw out a ton of them.


----------



## Wiljen

b3vcard said:


> Ok, I have listened to a good range of music on the AS10's now. My previous comment on bass response was wrong, I believe I was listening to a badly mastered track that just didn't actually have any.
> 
> -Bass is fine.
> - Treble is not great. It's just not that ''detailed''? The ZST I have is far more detailed.
> - The mids and highs appear like they are 'far away' if that makes any sense?



That sounds like a phase issue, any time you get distant and hollow in the definition I'd start wondering if it is wired out of phase.


----------



## B9Scrambler

maheeinfy said:


> New ZS6 owner here. I removed the stock eartips and can't seem to get them back on. The opening is just not big enough to easily slide into place on the ZS6
> 
> Are there any suggestions from owners on this?



Is this helpful?


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Is this helpful?




Very nice clip B, I still have to do a little twist in conjunction with that push especially with new tips on a first time install

And while I'm in the KZ thread


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> Very nice clip B, *I still have to do a little twist in conjunction with that push especially with new tips on a first time install*
> 
> And while I'm in the KZ thread



Good call, thanks! Nice gear


----------



## ivo001

Hey all, I've been gone for a while, so not up to date with the latest KZ products.
What is the best option for bluetooth IEM <$30
Something like ZS5 + bluetooth cable? Or the ZSR?


----------



## Joong

Wiljen said:


> You don't - no iem is going to have a soundstage or comfort like an open back over ear headphone so comparing these is the like comparing a Ferrari and a school bus since they are both technically vehicles.
> A more fair comparison would be to a IEM in the same price range with the HD600s or the HD800s.  So for that, lets take the Brainwavz b400 at $200 as the HD600 price range and the Empire Ears ESR as the HD800 analogue.
> 
> AS10 vs b400 - these are reasonably close in overall with the extension at the low end being better on the AS10 while the detail and timbre is a bit better on the b400.   The b400 is flatter than the As10 which is V shaped and a bit elevated in the mid-bass by comparison.   For fit, the b400 wins hands down as it is smaller and more rounded while the AS10 feels kind of blocky.
> ...



Then, The ESR can be compared to HD-800 with respect to SQ only?

My impression of your posting is that if the price level should be comparable, then a comparsion can be possible.
But somebody here including me might expect to see some other way of comparsion that is independent of those prices, for example suprising productivity of Chinese manufacturer with their own added value with different perspective of sonic landscape can be realised.
Or we might start to realize that there might be some sonic value that might deviate from standard or traditional way but a sonic quality of these chinese one can be justified regardless of the price.
After all all things here are for sound generated by the simplest device known as voice coil motor driven by again simplest amplifier, 2 of which are regarded as entrance points on to all electronic and electric devices with respect to technology.
In morden day those simplest ones can be packaged very well with unthinkable price by developing nations with lots of skilled workforces.


----------



## Wiljen

Joong said:


> Then, The ESR can be compared to HD-800 with respect to SQ only?
> 
> My impression of your posting is that if the price level should be comparable, then a comparsion can be possible.
> But somebody here including me might expect to see some other way of comparsion that is independent of those prices, for example suprising productivity of Chinese manufacturer with their own added value with different perspective of sonic landscape can be realised.
> ...



Your original question was how do the Kz As10s compare to a couple of open back full sized cans which even you admitted was not a reasonable comparison.  I merely tried to provide a comparison of things with some similarities to the cans you ask about.
I think most people have expectations based on price point so It is reasonable to use that as a basis.   The ESR is designed to be a studio reference as is the HD800s so they do share similar sound quality and level of details if with differing signatures.   The b400 has gotten to be one of the best value picks for iems in much the same manner that the HD6xx has in over-ears so, again, some basis for the use of the two.

You can choose to compare and contrast anything you like, but relevance is lost when you go too far with it.

As far as expecting comparisons that don't involve price, it can be done, but most often you get no more than you pay for although sometimes you get a lot less.    As I have said before, even in fairy tales, giants are rare and giant killers are the stuff of legend.   If you are lucky, there might be one in your lifetime, not the one every other week that has become the expectation with some people.


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> Hey all, I've been gone for a while, so not up to date with the latest KZ products.
> What is the best option for bluetooth IEM <$30
> Something like ZS5 + bluetooth cable? Or the ZSR?



Best for what?

Weight, build quality, basshead, clarity, soundstage, forward mids, color choice, cheapest, instrument separation, fit for small ears, least sibilance, sweat resistance, isolation, treble extension, low powered sources, looks, smell, taste?


----------



## acygni

Any news on KZ-BA10?


----------



## ivo001

Slater said:


> Best for what?
> 
> Weight, build quality, basshead, clarity, soundstage, forward mids, color choice, cheapest, instrument separation, fit for small ears, least sibilance, sweat resistance, isolation, treble extension, low powered sources, looks, smell, taste?



Sorry Slater, don't have to much info, as it's not meant for myself. My sister was just saying that she was looking for some bluetooth IEM to pair with her smartwatch. So for general use, I would say comfort and balanced EQ are the main criteria. Figured something like ED16 with bluetooth cable would be a decent option (I saw on NIceHCK that there is a new AptX cable?).
Tin Audio T2 with MMCX audio cable could also be an option, would be around $40 with the upcoming sale.


----------



## pbui44 (Aug 22, 2018)

acygni said:


> Any news on KZ-BA10?



Just prototype pictures:

https://twitter.com/hulang9078/status/1029250463902777345?s=20

Looks to have an interesting sound signature, provided that you can withstand this discomfort.

Also looks like the cables are installed backwards as well.


----------



## acygni

Thanks. It really does look like a grill lol.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Wiljen said:


> Your original question was how do the Kz As10s compare to a couple of open back full sized cans which even you admitted was not a reasonable comparison.  I merely tried to provide a comparison of things with some similarities to the cans you ask about.
> I think most people have expectations based on price point so It is reasonable to use that as a basis.   The ESR is designed to be a studio reference as is the HD800s so they do share similar sound quality and level of details if with differing signatures.   The b400 has gotten to be one of the best value picks for iems in much the same manner that the HD6xx has in over-ears so, again, some basis for the use of the two.
> 
> You can choose to compare and contrast anything you like, but relevance is lost when you go too far with it.
> ...






 

What are your thoughts about this?

P.S. Do check the flair.


----------



## MyPants

pbui44 said:


> Just prototype pictures:
> 
> https://twitter.com/hulang9078/status/1029250463902777345?s=20
> 
> ...


Woah...  That's certainly distinctive. What are they cramming in there that it needs to be so massive?


----------



## acygni

MyPants said:


> Woah...  That's certainly distinctive. What are they cramming in there that it needs to be so massive?



I am pretty sure it is because they are going for the iron man aesthetic.


----------



## Slater (Aug 23, 2018)

ivo001 said:


> Sorry Slater, don't have to much info, as it's not meant for myself. My sister was just saying that she was looking for some bluetooth IEM to pair with her smartwatch. So for general use, I would say comfort and balanced EQ are the main criteria. Figured something like ED16 with bluetooth cable would be a decent option (I saw on NIceHCK that there is a new AptX cable?).
> Tin Audio T2 with MMCX audio cable could also be an option, would be around $40 with the upcoming sale.



Well, whatever you do stay away from the new KZ Bluetooth cable. Get the TRN aptX cable. The KZ cable *looks* similar and is 1/2 the cost, but it is full of problems. You may as well throw money down a hole, so get the TRN cable. There are 2 TRN cables that look identical to one another; make sure you get the aptX one (unless you don’t need aptX).

I would also personally go with a 2-pin connection over an MMCX. The 2-pin is going to be much more robust in the long run.

As far as which IEM, you could really go with a number of IEMs. Some of these I own and I’d definitely recommend them. Others I don’t personally own, but respected and experienced HF members have said many good things about them.

The below list are all 2-pin compatible IEMs, which would technically work with the TRN aptX Bluetooth cable (although you may have to splay the pins slightly or trim off a tiny bit of the plastic shoulder on the Bluetooth plug to get it to fit perfectly).

Some in the list are a little more balanced, some are a bit more v shaped. But all have a tuning that would appeal to a “generic consumer”, which is a category I would suspect your sister falls into.

In no particular order:

- QKZ VK1
- BQEYZ K2 (a little more v shaped and deeper sub bass compared to the KC2)
- BQEYZ KC2 (a little more balanced compared to the K2)
- TRN V80
- KZ ES4 (some say the ES4>ED16)
- KZ ED16 (some say the ED16>ES4)

I’m sure others will jump in with some opinions and recommendations as well.


----------



## Slater

MyPants said:


> Woah...  That's certainly distinctive. What are they cramming in there that it needs to be so massive?



Robot bric a brac, like gears, motors, circuits, antennas, and the like. It’s KZs 1st IEM for androids and humans alike.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> Robot bric a brac, like gears, motors, circuits, antennas, and the like. It’s KZs 1st IEM for androids and humans alike.


KZ will create giant metal earplug fashion craze, you just wait and see! I mean, if this is a thing, then everything is possible!



Spoiler: pic


----------



## BadReligionPunk

New KZ 100BA IEM


----------



## Wiljen

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> What are your thoughts about this?
> 
> P.S. Do check the flair.



My thoughts, while I would never presume to tell someone they were wrong, I can only imagine that either something is wrong with his hearing or his equipment as in no way, shape, or form, is the Zs6 capable of the level of detail or clarity the LCD2C can produce.   If I had to guess, I'd say either his gear is very treble shy and the boost of the Zs6 is bringing some of the life back that has been lacking in more balanced setups, or the person may have a little hearing loss in a critical area that is boosted by the Zs6 and thus brings some life back to music for them.   I like the Zs6 for what it is, but it is way overhyped at this point.  Its a good $50 class in ear - better things exist at $100.


----------



## Joong

Wiljen said:


> My thoughts, while I would never presume to tell someone they were wrong, I can only imagine that either something is wrong with his hearing or his equipment as in no way, shape, or form, is the Zs6 capable of the level of detail or clarity the LCD2C can produce.   If I had to guess, I'd say either his gear is very treble shy and the boost of the Zs6 is bringing some of the life back that has been lacking in more balanced setups, or the person may have a little hearing loss in a critical area that is boosted by the Zs6 and thus brings some life back to music for them.   I like the Zs6 for what it is, but it is way overhyped at this point.  Its a good $50 class in ear - better things exist at $100.



It is interesting and provoking subject.
My wife is pianist and organist as well, and has good sense of music of course.
However she always listen to music through ipad or Galaxy without connection to any audio gear, which is usual trouble to me who has very expensive gears for listening pleasure.
Frequently I question to myself regarding what is really musical pleasure to my wife and me?
There is obvious difference between music lover and audiophile where I belong to, whereas my wife belongs to music??? who does not mind so much for the quality of sound???
The difference between my full size overhead headphones (that do not appeal to my wife) and the earphones or in-ear is not very different to my wife.
Interestingly she loves to go to concert with expensive ticket with me.
These again start to questioning me what is really the music? Perhaps she recreates the quality sonic scene in her brain when she listens to ipad ( not using even earphone at all) to her satisfaction.
I don't think she has hearing problem at all, but she enjoys the music in different way.
These make me think that there is not necessarily bad or good musical gear for the music but there are different phones for somebody's satisfaction.
When you said that you enjoyed ZS6 in the way it is, it also get me rethink about the same question.

Should we set mechanical classification of phones around us and assign different price expectation in order to choose right one, or should we emphasize the uniqueness of the phones where some one can find different value in them?


----------



## randomnin

Joong said:


> It is interesting and provoking subject.
> My wife is pianist and organist as well, and has good sense of music of course.
> However she always listen to music through ipad or Galaxy without connection to any audio gear, which is usual trouble to me who has very expensive gears for listening pleasure.
> Frequently I question to myself regarding what is really musical pleasure to my wife and me?
> ...


The first thing that comes to mind is that for low impedance gear smartphones are a very good source. The graphs at GSMArena are flat for a lot of phones, especially flagships like Galaxies; THD, signal-to-noise, etc. are also mostly top-notch. Stereo crosstalk is the weakest usually, also output power, of course, but that's less of a problem.
Then the full sized headphones only give extra soundstage by interacting with the outer ear (also the head, if speakers). Everything else is pretty much the same as with IEMs.
Also, when I'm not comparing IEMs or doing other weird nitpicking with the gear or the tracks, music is a holistic, emotional experience. A lack of spacial cue or detail here and there doesn't really make up the most important part of the music.


----------



## Ruebezahl

Speaking about the ED16: 
Felt in love at first, but after 2 weeks I'm at a point, where I really hate this treble-peak. Cymbals, Sibilants and other higher frequency stuff can be damn annoying and that's the reason I've decided to gave them away. I prefer my ATE (with the mod of removing the red mesh stuff) and my ZST (after making the slater mod). Its quiet sad, because I like the way the ED16 sounds, when there wouldn't be these peaks... :/
Time for some other chifi stuff


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today Nano looks at the incredible KZ ZS5. For under $25 you get something incredible and it in fact is so good we're adding it to our recommended buy section!

https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs5/


----------



## dpsbz

Hi have the KZ ED09 I know they’re old and not everyone’s cup of tea but I love them . 
Are there any 2 pin alternatives that have the same type of signature . Have a new TRN BT3 cable so want to use them with this .


----------



## b3vcard

Wiljen said:


> That sounds like a phase issue, any time you get distant and hollow in the definition I'd start wondering if it is wired out of phase.



Well, I have made their ''video'' and sent it on, not that will show anything!

It really has to be something like that as a) the cable is good and b) I really cannot see how these can be considered good IEM's in any way. This cannot be in my head!


----------



## b3vcard

b3vcard said:


> Well, I have made their ''video'' and sent it on, not that will show anything!
> 
> It really has to be something like that as a) the cable is good and b) I really cannot see how these can be considered good IEM's in any way. This cannot be in my head!



They have told me to send back the IEMs and they will either give a refund or replace them. I'd say I will go for the refund instead of the replacement, no guarantee I get something right the next time either.


----------



## nxnje

Podster said:


> Very nice clip B, I still have to do a little twist in conjunction with that push especially with new tips on a first time install
> 
> And while I'm in the KZ thread



BENJIE S5, what a good device
I have the AGPTEK M20 which is the same one, dirty cheap but so powerful for its size and price.. i love it



b3vcard said:


> Well, I have made their ''video'' and sent it on, not that will show anything!
> 
> It really has to be something like that as a) the cable is good and b) I really cannot see how these can be considered good IEM's in any way. This cannot be in my head!





b3vcard said:


> They have told me to send back the IEMs and they will either give a refund or replace them. I'd say I will go for the refund instead of the replacement, no guarantee I get something right the next time either.



In these cases i always had problems.
Sellers want proofs and u can try to give em proofs, the problem is a video can't show how a pair of headphones is sounding bad
Every time the seller said me to send them back the item and then they would have sent me a new pair.
The problem is that shipping to china is a suicide (at least here in italy) so u just keep a broken headphone if it's faulty or u have to spend 3x the price of the item to ship it back and then without knowing if you will receive a future good headphone or another malfunctioning unit.


----------



## Wiljen

Joong said:


> It is interesting and provoking subject.
> My wife is pianist and organist as well, and has good sense of music of course.
> However she always listen to music through ipad or Galaxy without connection to any audio gear, which is usual trouble to me who has very expensive gears for listening pleasure.
> Frequently I question to myself regarding what is really musical pleasure to my wife and me?
> ...




I think some of the problem is in the ambiguity of the language used.   What one person says is "better" may not have any commonality with what someone else defines as "better".   In this instance, I interpretted the term better to mean "more technically capable" while the original poster may have intended the term better to mean more musically pleasing.    We all know that what pleases an individual is all over the map and thus no two people are pleased to the same degree by the same thing.   If we substitute the words "I am more pleased with", for the words, "I find this better", we may avoid a lot of argument due to this disambiguation.


----------



## Slater (Aug 23, 2018)

Ruebezahl said:


> Speaking about the ED16:
> Felt in love at first, but after 2 weeks I'm at a point, where I really hate this treble-peak. Cymbals, Sibilants and other higher frequency stuff can be damn annoying and that's the reason I've decided to gave them away. I prefer my ATE (with the mod of removing the red mesh stuff) and my ZST (after making the slater mod). Its quiet sad, because I like the way the ED16 sounds, when there wouldn't be these peaks... :/
> Time for some other chifi stuff



Just do the foam mod to the BA driver on the ED16. The procedure would be exactly the same as the ZST foam mod. It solved the sibilance on the 30095 driver in the ZST; it will do the exact same thing to the ED16.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I think some of the problem is in the ambiguity of the language used.   What one person says is "better" may not have any commonality with what someone else defines as "better".   In this instance, I interpretted the term better to mean "more technically capable" while the original poster may have intended the term better to mean more musically pleasing.    We all know that what pleases an individual is all over the map and thus no two people are pleased to the same degree by the same thing.   If we substitute the words "I am more pleased with", for the words, "I find this better", we may avoid a lot of argument due to this disambiguation.



Exactly why when someone says “_yO dAwG what’s the best IEM for $2_5” I’m like


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 23, 2018)

Slater said:


> Just do the foam mod to the BA driver on the ED16. The procedure would be exactly the same as the ZST foam mod. It solved the sibilance on the 30095 driver in the ZST; it will do the exact same thing to the ED16.



I wonder if this could be solved with different tips.  I do not hear sibilance, nor piercing highs.  I needed Spinfit tips to get them seated properly.

I do think they are very revealing so if the source is at fault ...for example a poorly mastered recording or a badly mic-ed singer,  the ED16 might not be very forgiving.


----------



## Ruebezahl

Slater said:


> Just do the foam mod to the BA driver on the ED16. The procedure would be exactly the same as the ZST foam mod. It solved the sibilance on the 30095 driver in the ZST; it will do the exact same thing to the ED16.



Ok, I thought about that, but I got a nice deal for a different pair of IEMs, so they are already on the way to another person


----------



## Podster (Aug 23, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I wonder if this could be solved with different tips.  I do not hear sibilance, nor piercing highs.  I needed Spinfit tips to get them seated properly.
> 
> I do thek they are very revealing so if the source is at fault ...for example a poorly mastered recording or a badly mic-ed singer,  the ED16 might not be very forgiving.



Bingo, I'd say a piss poor recording/file will sound crappy on 99.9% of the gear out here! As well a finely recorded piece/file will sound pretty darn good on an El Cheapo rig I've had some great recordings sound phenomenal on this $11 dollar obscure DAP mated to these $1.69 clip ons






Of course for just a few dollars more ($38.44 to be exact) that same file can sound absolutely killer!


----------



## thebigredpolos

Slater said:


> The below list are all 2-pin compatible IEMs, which would technically work with the TRN aptX Bluetooth cable (although you may have to splay the pins slightly or trim off a tiny bit of the plastic shoulder on the Bluetooth plug to get it to fit perfectly).
> 
> Some in the list are a little more balanced, some are a bit more v shaped. But all have a tuning that would appeal to a “generic consumer”, which is a category I would suspect your sister falls into.
> 
> ...



Isn't the EM-023 MMCX?


----------



## thug behram

got them ZS6 and its very impressive for the price, especially with comply foam tips. Is there a model that sounds similar but with more sub-bass?


----------



## maheeinfy

I was finally able to get the stock eartips onto the ZS6 and it sounds great. The treble spikes doesn't bother me as i was led to expect from reviews

But i have one problem: When inserting them into ears, they make pop sound. I think its the air seal formed by the tips that causes this. 

Is there a fix to this popping sound? its kind of annoying each time they are inserted into ears


----------



## Slater

thebigredpolos said:


> Isn't the EM-023 MMCX?



Yeah, sorry that was an oversight.


----------



## Slater (Aug 23, 2018)

maheeinfy said:


> I was finally able to get the stock eartips onto the ZS6 and it sounds great. The treble spikes doesn't bother me as i was led to expect from reviews
> 
> But i have one problem: When inserting them into ears, they make pop sound. I think its the air seal formed by the tips that causes this.
> 
> Is there a fix to this popping sound? its kind of annoying each time they are inserted into ears



3 different ways to help with the issue:

1. Try holding your mouth wide open while you insert them. Then once they’re in place, close your mouth.

2. You can also try 1 size smaller tips than what you’re using.

3. Finally, you can try memory foam tips instead of silicone tips.


----------



## maheeinfy

Slater said:


> 3 different ways to help with the issue:
> 
> 1. Try holding your mouth wide open while you insert them. Then once they’re in place, close your mouth.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Option 1 did not work. I will try smaller tips when i get home today


----------



## toddy0191

maheeinfy said:


> Thanks. Option 1 did not work. I will try smaller tips when i get home today



Go for @Slater  number 3 choice; foam tips. Works for me every time I get driver  flex.

I wasn't bothered by the treble spike either,  but foams do attenuate the highs a little and make the ZS6s sound even better IMO.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> Go for @Slater  number 3 choice; foam tips. Works for me every time I get driver  flex.
> 
> I wasn't bothered by the treble spike either,  but foams do attenuate the highs a little and make the ZS6s sound even better IMO.



Yup, agreed. On the ZS6 foams are a great option, and kill multiple birds with 1 stone.


----------



## mbwilson111

toddy0191 said:


> Go for @Slater  number 3 choice; foam tips. Works for me every time I get driver  flex.
> 
> I wasn't bothered by the treble spike either,  but foams do attenuate the highs a little and make the ZS6s sound even better IMO.



There are people who cannot stand foams... like me.  I can't even stand to touch them.  Hate the feel.  Plus I cannot keep them squished long enough to actually put them in.   I have to have silicone tips.


----------



## toddy0191

mbwilson111 said:


> There are people who cannot stand foams... like me.  I can't even stand to touch them.  Hate the feel.  Plus I cannot keep them squished long enough to actually put them in.   I have to have silicone tips.



I quite like squishing them and watching them slowly expand.  There's something quite satisfying about it!

They have a habit of collecting wax, which I'm not too fond of though.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> There are people who cannot stand foams... like me.  I can't even stand to touch them.  Hate the feel.  Plus I cannot keep them squished long enough to actually put them in.   I have to have silicone tips.



I know, I hate foams too. But if it’s the only way you can enjoy or use a particular IEM, then you gotta do what you gotta do.

There are members that have ear canals so large that they can ONLY use foam (and even have to flip them around backwards on top of that).

Just like anything, it just boils down to personal preference, individual fit, etc.


----------



## mbwilson111

toddy0191 said:


> I quite like squishing them and watching them slowly expand. There's something quite satisfying about it!



You are weird... lol.



toddy0191 said:


> They have a habit of collecting wax, which I'm not too fond of though.



That is the other thing... disgusting!   



Slater said:


> I know, I hate foams too. But if it’s the only way you can enjoy or use a particular IEM, then you gotta do what you gotta do.



Of course... just pointing out that there are also people who just cannot use them.



Slater said:


> There are members that have ear canals so large that they can ONLY use foam (and even have to flip them around backwards on top of that).



I know, I think there is a market for XL and XXL size silicone tips.


----------



## Lunar Eclipse (Aug 24, 2018)

Hi all! First post in this thread, long time listener. Figured it was time to share this for a bit of a laugh since the conversation has circled back to foams. Composed months ago as a practical/absurd writing exercise. Shelved till now. I haven't measured but suspect I have large ear canals..

 A few months ago I lost one of the large starline tips from my zs6's. Bummer, maybe it was time to try something different. Foam tips perhaps? I already use the industry style for hearing protection at concerts and dance parties. They are a hassle! Disposables that get filthy all too quickly AND I would have to compress every time I reinserted!?! Hrumphf fine..Ordered
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07C2XT4JH/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_3p_dp_1

From a very slow boat they arrived. In the packaging were 5 pairs of grey tips. Wide bore, stubby and soft. Aesthetically like something out of THX 1138, and to my taste, perfectly compliment the cold black space of the zs6. I installed them on the stems with little hassle, bonus. Then a thought occurred to me. I'll just tuck them snug up to my ear canal sans compression/deep insertion and see what happens..

To quantify, 3 bushels worth of aural happiness! Instruments tone, dynamics, imaging etc. all stepped in, stepped up and greeted me with a handshake and hello. Albums I love and adore, many recorded in the 80's, tend to have this thin, edgy sound signature(Gang of Four, Cocteau Twins, Malaria!..) Or so I thought. This simple retrofit helped considerably in filling them out with a more textured and whole sonic landscape.

The big surprise waiting was comfort. The much maligned kz memory wire, of which I am a fan, in conjunction with the foam tips keeps the kz's stable and the foam tips locked under the tragus(i learned a word!). With only the occasional soft push when walking to reinstate optimal bass response. The uncomfortable insertion of traditional tips that worm or pop their way out while walking is over and done. I'm now sporting the softest of sound pillows that can be worn pretty much indefinitely.

I will keep one of the balanced armature's blocked for now. I'm quite content with where the balance of the treble sits. But who knows, I may unleash the cannons in the future. In summary, traditional tips have this invasive, 'HERE LISTEN TO THIS!!!!', shoved in mah brain sound and feel, I thought was just part for parcel. While these little foamies saunter up and say, 'Hey handsome, wanna cuddle and share some cinnamon toast?'.

Yes please. No longer shall I suffer the tyranny of silicone!!


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> I know, I hate foams too. But if it’s the only way you can enjoy or use a particular IEM, then you gotta do what you gotta do.
> 
> There are members that have ear canals so large that they can ONLY use foam (and even have to flip them around backwards on top of that).
> 
> Just like anything, it just boils down to personal preference, individual fit, etc.


Yep, wax, breaking, price, poor quality in Aliexpress (the ones that come with big brands are usually much better). Though, isolation and comfort are pluses, but the negatives crowd out the positives of foam for me.
So I use triple flange. Has most of foam's benefits without the drawbacks, except comfort. But another minus of triple flange is the change of sound signature. Here are graphs of change of signature for every flange added:


Spoiler: Etymotic ER-4 and flanges



*Usual*





*Double flange




Triple flange



*


----------



## randomnin

Wiljen said:


> I think some of the problem is in the ambiguity of the language used.   What one person says is "better" may not have any commonality with what someone else defines as "better".   In this instance, I interpretted the term better to mean "more technically capable" while the original poster may have intended the term better to mean more musically pleasing.    We all know that what pleases an individual is all over the map and thus no two people are pleased to the same degree by the same thing.   If we substitute the words "I am more pleased with", for the words, "I find this better", we may avoid a lot of argument due to this disambiguation.


 Then I suggest we drop everything that is connected to personal preference of sound (not physical factors like comfort and isolation) from reviews as a community, because sound preference is basically the frequency response graph, which anyone can change to their wishes with equalizers. If good reviewers are capable of judging technical capability by ear, then that should be what they emphasize and give marks for. This "everyone has their own preference" and "musically pleasing" seems like an excellent way to spend a lot of money unnecessarily (which is undeniably happening, I just bought four IEMs, for Christ's sake), when you could just buy the most technically capable (as reached by reviewer consensus or technical measurements, if that's possible - if not, then this whole audiophile thing is a (ha ha) charade(you are; sorry, Pink Floyd messed this up)) and physically comfortable gear in a given price range, and fix the rest with software. Sadly, reviews usually don't have a lot of measurements and get very wordy, making it hard to extrapolate the exact (or at least the opinion of the reviewer) technical capability.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I got my KZ EDR1's in the mail but there is no way to tell L from R and they are both angled the same way (to the right) so I think they made them wrong too?


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I got my KZ EDR1's in the mail but there is no way to tell L from R and they are both angled the same way (to the right) so I think they made them wrong too?



Don't you have a red band on one and a blue on the other like this:


----------



## randomnin

Red and blue still doesn't unequivocally translate to left and right, you know 
Use the channel checker here - https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## mbwilson111

randomnin said:


> Red and blue still doesn't unequivocally translate to left and right, you know
> Use the channel checker here - https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php



Yes, but I thought he was saying they looked the same with no difference in any markings.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

neo_styles said:


> I own the RE-400, but the model with a fixed cable. For that price, I think you'd be better off going with the single-DD unit that Noble put out on Massdrop. Build quality on the RE-400 is abysmal (I use them gently and still have insulation constantly pulling back from the Y and each earpiece. Knowing they've moved to a MMCX connection only gives me more worries.
> 
> Sound-wise, I also find them very analytical and there's a decent sense of space (though I wouldn't call it exceptionally wide, deep, nor high), which is the only reason I still have them in the collection. Just don't think you're going to get much bass information out of them; they definitely favor the upper mids and treble.


That's a mod


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I got my KZ EDR1's in the mail but there is no way to tell L from R and they are both angled the same way (to the right) so I think they made them wrong too?



Hmmm, none of my EDR1 have angled nozzles. The nozzles come straight out of the body.

Also, the way to tell them apart is the colored stripe. Red = right and blue = left.


----------



## Phantomize

I don't know if this is off-topic but can anyone recommend me a cheap portable DAP for the ZS5 V1 and ZS10? I just want to try one and see if one could be handy in the future.


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

Phantomize said:


> I don't know if this is off-topic but can anyone recommend me a cheap portable DAP for the ZS5 V1 and ZS10? I just want to try one and see if one could be handy in the future.


@Podster likes the benjie S5 with his ZS6 and looks like a great VFM. If you can spend a bit more, I would recommend getting the Shanling M0. It's feature packed and performs brilliantly considering the size and price ($109).


----------



## vegetaleb

Hello!
Now that AE is having some ofers on the BT KZ aptx cord I wonder if I get one or not.
Anyone bought it?
My last KZ iem are ZSR which sound very good but have a pretty bad fir in my ears unless I plug them to the ZS3 cable which has a better memory wire.
So my questions are:
Will this BT cable for ZSR givve me a good memory wire a la ZS3 or it's as bad as the one that comes with the ZSR?
How good is the SQ using aptx?


----------



## DocHoliday

With all this discussion about the new quad-drivers on offer, modifications and eartip selection (foam vs silicone) perhaps those of you who still have questions about the ZS6 should revisit them. In particular let's look at a stock ZS6 versus one of Slater's modified ZS6's for the treble-sensitive.  

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs6.22686/reviews#review-20787


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

vegetaleb said:


> Hello!
> Now that AE is having some ofers on the BT KZ aptx cord I wonder if I get one or not.
> Anyone bought it?
> My last KZ iem are ZSR which sound very good but have a pretty bad fir in my ears unless I plug them to the ZS3 cable which has a better memory wire.
> ...


 Avoid the KZ's BT cable at all cost. It has terrible reception, even when the source is paced on top of it. Also, some batches had L & R channels wired incorrectly.


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Hello!
> Now that AE is having some ofers on the BT KZ aptx cord I wonder if I get one or not.
> Anyone bought it?
> My last KZ iem are ZSR which sound very good but have a pretty bad fir in my ears unless I plug them to the ZS3 cable which has a better memory wire.
> ...



Get the TRN aptX cable. The KZ one is junk.


----------



## hakuzen

Phantomize said:


> I don't know if this is off-topic but can anyone recommend me a cheap portable DAP for the ZS5 V1 and ZS10? I just want to try one and see if one could be handy in the future.





mathi8vadhanan said:


> @Podster likes the benjie S5 with his ZS6 and looks like a great VFM. If you can spend a bit more, I would recommend getting the Shanling M0. It's feature packed and performs brilliantly considering the size and price ($109).



due to extreme low impedance of zs5 v1, demanded current is high.
i do like benjie s5, but can't recommend it for zs5 v1, due to its low current limitation (and its output impedance around 1ohm -lower would be better-).
shanling m0 looks great and has got very low output imedance (0.16ohms, manufacturer's specs), but don't know about its actual limit of current.
xduoo x3 is my cheap choice for zs5 v1 (enough current capability, very low output impedance, plus rockbox!), regardless of some hiss.


----------



## Gordhifi

https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-zs5/      Great review


----------



## jeromeaparis (Aug 24, 2018)

About the DAP source,
I had the Benjie S5 (40 $), it is good for the price, maybe not better than your smartphone
Xduoo X3 (110 $) is very superior in every aspect !
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...bd90-4d4f-81a0-c383762e482f&priceBeautifyAB=0
X3 has one CS4398 Dac that is used too inside 500$ dap Astell & Kern AK70
small mod inproves trebles and bass quality
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xdu...98-chip-lossless-music-player.782912/page-299
you may install alternative firmware "rockbox" for better use
http://xvtx.ru/rockbox/manual.htm


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I had X3. I couldn't rec it based on the fact that it plays files(44.1k) slower then normal.  Rockbox or encoding to 48k fixes the playback problem. If not interested in Rockbox like me, then no go.


----------



## Podster

mathi8vadhanan said:


> @Podster likes the benjie S5 with his ZS6 and looks like a great VFM. If you can spend a bit more, I would recommend getting the Shanling M0. It's feature packed and performs brilliantly considering the size and price ($109).



THX for the recco mathi8vadhanan, this M1 is as close as I can get right now but I am seriously considering the new M5s


----------



## dhruvmeena96

hiflofi said:


> The conflicting views on the AS10 are precisely why subjective reviews of entry-level IEMs here (it's even worse on YT) are imperfect indicators of the IEM's performance.
> Just watched a reviewer on YT say the AS10 was the first all-BA IEM they'd heard. That's so awful that the only positive thing to take away from that revelation is that at least they're honest about their limitations.
> The hype from entry level hifi enthusiasts kills all rational reactions to the purchase.
> Some reviewers are willling to feed into the hype of their viewers, driving sales of what could be a mediocre IEM, finally leading to negativity toward the product when they don't get the giant-killing KZ that they expect.
> ...


all conflicting review is because of KZ bad QC on the ZS and the advanced ES, AS series. my AS10 does wonder on some track and makes me remember ocharaku syou kurenai becasue of the bass potency and some magic at treble. Ocharaku sounds well stiched and coherent which turns out be even more magical(Ocharaku is like Magic). KZ AS10 sounds sorta kurenai


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Today, i got my KZ Silver 8braid new gen cable(Better packaging) and better feel

which one is left and which one is right, i guess i forgot the colour coding


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> Well, whatever you do stay away from the new KZ Bluetooth cable. Get the TRN aptX cable. The KZ cable *looks* similar and is 1/2 the cost, but it is full of problems. You may as well throw money down a hole, so get the TRN cable. There are 2 TRN cables that look identical to one another; make sure you get the aptX one (unless you don’t need aptX).
> 
> I would also personally go with a 2-pin connection over an MMCX. The 2-pin is going to be much more robust in the long run.
> 
> ...


ES4 with 20ohm adapter and Foam tips with filter sounds the most neutral and tamed KZ. Add the spin-fit cp240 and it turns magical. there is a need of 20ohm adapter because the ES4 crossover design is very amazing. all bass is done by dynamic till 600Hz and the newer BA driver does the whole frequency. adding impedance adapter will effect both of drivers upper range, taking away the mid bass bleed and the nasty peaks in treble(one of the best if we compare other KZ peaks) and 20ohm is pretty less to actually swing the whole frequency. extension sorta increases and timbre gets almost perfect(KZ lacks this aspect).

ED16 goes the same. it turns out to be way more airy and open while some track screeching is taken away. sense of space due to 4kHz intended dip is now more prominent, making things get a 3Dsque space but lemme tell you, it comes at expense of timbre and imaging which KZ ES4 doesn't suffer with. i guess 10% loss of image and 15% loss of timbre(decay information). use foam tips here and no spinfit because it will sound sibilant and smooth at same time which is annoying 

ED9 black with @Slater mod open back, wide brass filter, 20ohm adapter,  and spinfit cp240 outclasses tinAudio T2, Alpha and Delta D6(in some aspect). the loss of bass due to slater mod is compensated by impedance adapter and  spinfit extends all the treble which is smoothened by adapter. 

all are geting soundstage boost

KZ ES4 turns out to be balanced mid dominated
KZ ED16 turns out to be Balanced J tuned
KZ ED9 turns out be neutral balanced with one of the best mids

you can try these mods


----------



## Phantomize

mathi8vadhanan said:


> @Podster likes the benjie S5 with his ZS6 and looks like a great VFM. If you can spend a bit more, I would recommend getting the Shanling M0. It's feature packed and performs brilliantly considering the size and price ($109).





hakuzen said:


> due to extreme low impedance of zs5 v1, demanded current is high.
> i do like benjie s5, but can't recommend it for zs5 v1, due to its low current limitation (and its output impedance around 1ohm -lower would be better-).
> shanling m0 looks great and has got very low output imedance (0.16ohms, manufacturer's specs), but don't know about its actual limit of current.
> xduoo x3 is my cheap choice for zs5 v1 (enough current capability, very low output impedance, plus rockbox!), regardless of some hiss.





jeromeaparis said:


> About the DAP source,
> I had the Benjie S5 (40 $), it is good for the price, maybe not better than your smartphone
> Xduoo X3 (110 $) is very superior in every aspect !
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...bd90-4d4f-81a0-c383762e482f&priceBeautifyAB=0
> ...



Thank you for the advice!


----------



## Podster

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Today, i got my KZ Silver 8braid new gen cable(Better packaging) and better feel
> 
> which one is left and which one is right, i guess i forgot the colour coding



Well if you are like me or at least my eyes you'll need a magnifying glass to spot the "L" or "R" on the connectors!


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> Well if you are like me or at least my eyes you'll need a magnifying glass to spot the "L" or "R" on the connectors!



I keep a magnifying glass nearby for that purpose.   If the connector is clear colored I make a red dot on the right one with permanent marker...Sharpie.  Of course some iems are obvious... writing on the shell body.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Hmmm, none of my EDR1 have angled nozzles. The nozzles come straight out of the body.
> 
> Also, the way to tell them apart is the colored stripe. Red = right and blue = left.


Oops, it looks like it's the ear insert that is angled and makes it look like it are. 

I just noticed the red and blue lines after I made my post.  Is red always right?


----------



## HungryPanda

Red is most usually right


----------



## Jenz

Hello

How does the standard cable from the ED16 work? I can not connect the 2-pin connector to the connectors! The silver upgrade cable works perfectly. Is there a trick with the standard cable? 
And is there such a silver upgrade cable also with remote control? I need very big Eratips, at least 13 mm. 
The largest of the KZ copies are too small and I can not get a seal. Can you recommend me very good with 12-14 mm, maybe on aliexpress or other sites, would be nice too eBay, with shipping possibility to Germany. 
Thank you. Jens


----------



## Slater (Aug 24, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I keep a magnifying glass nearby for that purpose.   If the connector is clear colored I make a red dot on the right one with permanent marker...Sharpie.  Of course some iems are obvious... writing on the shell body.



A small dot of bright red nail polish on the R shell works too. Sharpie doesn’t always work, since most IEMs I get are black. I’ve also used a tiny dab of white correction fluid (ie white out) - the advantage of which is that it’s easy to see the white dot in very low light.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> A small dot of bright red nail polish on the R shell works too. Sharpie doesn’t always work, since most IEMs I get are black. I’ve also used a tiny dab of white correction fluid (ie white out) - the advantage of which is that it’s easy to see the white dot in very low light.



Guess it is time to buy some nail polish.  Is white-out permanent?


----------



## Slater (Aug 24, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Is white-out permanent?



Yes, it should be considered permanent. Although it could probably be removed with some solvent if you really needed to (lighter fluid, alcohol, paint thinner, acetone, etc).

I use the white out for marking lots of stuff. It easily sticks to plastic and surfaces that normal paints and sharpies rub right off of. Fojr example, I use it to mark the proper orientation of micro usb charge ports on some devices. I will put a small dot of white out on the usb charge cable, and a small dot on the device (such as charging brick, Bluetooth speaker, etc). That way, I can easily tell which is the proper direction of insehrtion without having to squint my eyes and look for the proper orientation of the connections. I just orient the usb (or micro usb) plug so the white dots point at one another and plug the cable in. That’s how I know marking things with a dab of white out it works so well in low light!

Does that make sense?

Obviously, this isn’t an issue on usb-C and Apple lightning stuff. But I have a lot of USB and micro usb stuff!

BTW, you can also buy bright blue nail polish. 1 bottle of red and blue polish from pound world (ie the dollar store) lasts forever when using them to mark IEMs!


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yes, it should be considered permanent. Although it could probably be removed with some solvent if you really needed to (lighter fluid, alcohol, paint thinner, acetone, etc).
> 
> I use the white out for marking lots of stuff. It easily sticks to plastic and surfaces that normal paints and sharpies rub right off of. Fojr example, I use it to mark the proper orientation of micro usb charge ports on some devices. I will put a small dot of white out on the usb charge cable, and a small dot on the device (such as charging brick, Bluetooth speaker, etc). That way, I can easily tell which is the proper direction of insehrtion without having to squint my eyes and look for the proper orientation of the connections. I just orient the usb (or micro usb) plug so the white dots point at one another and plug the cable in. That’s how I know marking things with a dab of white out it works so well in low light!
> 
> ...



Wow...great idea about the usb stuff ... sometimes in low light I have to use a flashlight to look and see which way to put it in.

So, I need to buy white out, red nail polish and blue nail polish (but I like green better... I wonder if that exists)


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow...great idea about the usb stuff ... sometimes in low light I have to use a flashlight to look and see which way to put it in.
> 
> So, I need to buy white out, red nail polish and blue nail polish (but I like green better... I wonder if that exists)



Yeah, give the white out a try on usb stuff. No more 50/50 guesswork if you are going to plug something in the right or wrong way - you get it right every time!

As far as the nail polish color, sure pick whatever you want. I just use red (or red and blue) on the R and L channels, because that’s how the manufacturers consistently marked them. If I stated using new colors (like orange and green for example), I’m sure I would forget which one is R and which is L, defeating the purpose of why I was marking them to begin with.


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Yeah, give the white out a try on usb stuff. No more 50/50 guesswork if you are going to plug something in the right or wrong way - you get it right every time!
> 
> As far as the nail polish color, sure pick whatever you want. I just use red (or red and blue) on the R and L channels, because that’s how the manufacturers consistently marked them. If I stated using new colors (like orange and green for example), I’m sure I would forget which one is R and which is L, defeating the purpose of why I was marking them to begin with.



Only mark the R


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yeah, give the white out a try on usb stuff. No more 50/50 guesswork if you are going to plug something in the right or wrong way - you get it right every time!
> 
> As far as the nail polish color, sure pick whatever you want. I just use red (or red and blue) on the R and L channels, because that’s how the manufacturers consistently marked them. If I stated using new colors (like orange and green for example), I’m sure I would forget which one is R and which is L, defeating the purpose of why I was marking them to begin with.



Red always means Right to me.  Left could be white, blue... anything or nothing... I only like certain shades of blue... I will see what they have.


----------



## scottySK (Aug 24, 2018)

ZS4 just released and available on AliExpress.

Looks like it has a new black braided cable


----------



## Makahl (Aug 24, 2018)

Omg is that a lip on the nozzle? 



>



I've modded ZS3 using UV glue around the nozzle to create this ring then I can use Tennmak turbo tips but now it won't be a problem anymore.


----------



## hiflofi

Makahl said:


> Omg is that a lip on the nozzle?
> 
> 
> 
> I've modded ZS3 using UV glue around the nozzle to create this ring then I can use Tennmak turbo tips but now it won't be a problem anymore.


That black cable reminds me of the Noble cables (or at least the ones on Katana/Encore).


----------



## scottySK

hiflofi said:


> That black cable reminds me of the Noble cables (or at least the ones on Katana/Encore).


Looks like a TRN cable to me


----------



## Makahl

scottySK said:


> Looks like a TRN cable to me



Well, TRN cable has that 4 strands braided style and KZ one 2. 



>



The Noble cable looks quite different but as expected pricey.
https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/accessories/


----------



## jeromeaparis (Aug 25, 2018)

Cheaper priced 0.75mm cables available:
Black generic 3.45$
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/-/32855344291.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.75cf2e0efGAcQJ
Black TRN 6.34$
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/D-or...489.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.75cf2e0efGAcQJ
Silver TRN 7$
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...64b0-4db8-9d50-58d8710b5099&priceBeautifyAB=0
Bronze color new KZ 2.68$
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Earp...000&pvid=b7a0e2a7-9eb9-45d8-8c62-dd301e0e6891


----------



## Podster (Aug 26, 2018)

The new KZ cable is a steal at that price. Destroys the original rubber cable they used but it took them several years to burn up that 487 size real! Guess you would have to be an old cable layer/placer to get that one


----------



## Jenz

Which headset cable is recommended for the KZ Ed16? Do you have recommendations?


----------



## crezo (Aug 25, 2018)

Deleted post!


----------



## Slater (Aug 25, 2018)

crezo said:


> I was really interested in the ZS6 until a lot of talk of the killer treble. But the **** NY-06 look like they might solve that problem, with the same 2 dds but just 1 ba all ina different metal shell.
> 
> **** seem to be the same company as KZ as well from what I can see.
> 
> ...



Hello friend, the 2 companies are not related.

There are loads and loads of Chinese companies producing (or contracting with ODM manufacturers to produce) IEMs and earbuds.

The brand you mentioned is banned from discussion on HeadFi (which are not my rules, but rather rules of the site). There is more information in the link in my signature that explains the who, why, etc of the situation.

Also, don't be fooled into thinking that 1 piece of gear will sound the same as another, even if they literally have the exact same drivers. It's all in the fine tuning. 90% of full size headphone use 40mm or 50mm drivers (even using the exact diaphragm materials), yet they all sound different from one another because they have slightly different ear cups and tuning methods (vents, dampening, etc). Even something seemingly as trivial as changing the ear pads or ear tips on a piece of gear can change the sound signature considerably.


----------



## rum_runner

b3vcard said:


> Just got my AS10 and I have to say these sound horrible, but I don't know if its me. My reference is the ZST Colorful that I have been using for months and they sound far far better. I may return them.
> 
> They just sound very ''muddy'' and not clear at all. I actually got two cables with these and tried them both, to no avail.




Yeah exactly my experience.  I own all of the KZ buds, own many other headphones, have spent many hours at e-earphone in Japan auditioning everything, so I feel I have a good grasp of the differences from KZ all the way to TOTL earbuds (which I can't say I own but have tried many). In my opinion they are passable on some genres of music, but vocals forget about it, very poor and muffled highs.


----------



## crezo

Slater said:


> Hello friend, the 2 companies are not related.
> 
> There are loads and loads of Chinese companies producing (or contracting with ODM manufacturers to produce) IEMs and earbuds.
> 
> ...


Ah I wasn't aware of this!  Will check out the link.  'They who can not be named' sell their own products and KZ on their store and some seem alnost identical which is why I presumed they were the same.

I guess we wont get any reviews of them on here then


----------



## mbwilson111

crezo said:


> Ah I wasn't aware of this!  Will check out the link.  'They who can not be named' sell their own products and KZ on their store and some seem alnost identical which is why I presumed they were the same.
> 
> I guess we wont get any reviews of them on here then



put your review on Amazon if you get it.  best place to look for reviews that you cannot find here...


----------



## Slater

rum_runner said:


> Yeah exactly my experience.  I own all of the KZ buds, own many other headphones, have spent many hours at e-earphone in Japan auditioning everything, so I feel I have a good grasp of the differences from KZ all the way to TOTL earbuds (which I can't say I own but have tried many). In my opinion they are passable on some genres of music, but vocals forget about it, very poor and muffled highs.



Yodobashi itsumademo!


----------



## brideshead (Aug 25, 2018)

how would you say the KZs compare to say, the soundmagic e50 through a high power music source (LG quad dac)?

I only ask beabeca my e50s were damaged, and I'm unsure if I should stick w soundmagic or join the KZ hype train. I'm big into instrument separation and detail, and I hear the multi driver KZs do that rather well. although the single driver on the e50s sounds fantastic when you can drive the full 51ohms

keen to hear your thoughts


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

@Slater So when's your KZ ZS4 review coming? I think you've been waiting on them for close to a year now. Wish fulfilled!


----------



## Slater

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> @Slater So when's your KZ ZS4 review coming? I think you've been waiting on them for close to a year now. Wish fulfilled!



I still need to order a pair. It will be the 1st KZ I have bought since the ZS6! I just have so much stuff that I like now, I just had to slow down


----------



## Slater

Speaking of ZS6, I have been spending a lot of time with the ZS6 lately.

Other than the treble spike at 10k, I know the other main complaint of the ZS6 is a lack of sub bass.

Well, I'll be honest, with proper fitting tips and a deep/tight seal, they have no lack of sub bass whatsoever. It extends all the way down to ~15Hz, and the sub bass is quite accentuated - deep and hard hitting.

I'm not really sure where this misconception originated?


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Well, I'll be honest, with proper fitting tips and a deep/tight seal, they have no lack of sub bass whatsoever. It extends all the way down to ~15Hz, and the sub bass is quite accentuated - deep and hard hitting.
> 
> I'm not really sure where this misconception originated?



I have wondered that as well.  I have a good seal with the stock tips.   I think some people needed Spinfits which I do need on some ...in fact, I need to order a couple more pairs from Aliexpress.  Spinfit CP100.  I just order the same size that I use with the Starlines.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> Yodobashi itsumademo!



Wakaranai @Slater San

Yodobashi wa nanidesu ka?


----------



## BloodyPenguin

A pair of *KZ ZSA *earphones arrived at my door.  I was not expecting much, more so because I am normally into earbuds.  But, really impressed with both the form and function of these for around $20 USD.

Below are a few photos I took of them:

















--


----------



## CYoung234 (Aug 26, 2018)

Slater said:


> Speaking of ZS6, I have been spending a lot of time with the ZS6 lately.
> 
> Other than the treble spike at 10k, I know the other main complaint of the ZS6 is a lack of sub bass.
> 
> ...



I concur about the misconception. I like my ZS6's a lot, and using the Bink Audio CD, they extend to 15hz and are powerful. Maybe those who are sensitive to the treble spike get the sensation that the highs are offsetting the low end? Oh, I use Tennmak Whirlwinds on mine, but the stock tips in M worked well for me also. I think personally that the wider bore Tennmaks or KZ Whirlwinds help the overall sound signature.


----------



## vegetaleb (Aug 26, 2018)

So it's either getting a cable with better memory wires than the one that came with the zsr or get a new pair of iem.
How good is the zs4? Is it a pale copy of the zs3 or SQ is better?
The zsr are 0.75 or 0.78 pins?


----------



## HAMS

I just have my first KZ. It's zs3 it looks cool. Great V shape sound but smooth no annoying peak.


----------



## rum_runner

Slater said:


> Yodobashi itsumademo!




Haha yeah I have also spent countless hours at Yodobashi and Bic in both Osaka and Tokyo! I started going to e-earphone many years ago when it was a small-ish shop upstairs at the end the road in Nippombashi Osaka..  They have really expanded since then and I think they tend to have the best deals.  Great used gear section too, and anything expensive I tend to buy used from there.


----------



## Tunaa

I have ZS6 and i burned them over 70 hours now they sound great but also i have thr right side which is different from my other ZS6s. It has no lip on the nozzle and also texts are different. That one has hissing sound as hell idk if its burn in helped but lip one has no hissing sound at all.


----------



## SSandDigital

Has anyone compared the AS10 to the TRN V80?  I'm curious.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Aug 26, 2018)

Jenz said:


> Which headset cable is recommended for the KZ Ed16? Do you have recommendations?


I just tried the KZ silver cable on the ED16, and for me on my X3, it realy inproves the sound.
Slightly more sharpness without hardness... More dynamic sound, more real, more deepness.

(5.25$ on ebay)

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/KZ-ZS3-Head...280160?hash=item41bdecb220:g:kkcAAOSwtfhYoUsD

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/KZ-ZS3-Head...694104?hash=item211c7a3e18:g:Y9kAAOSwa~BYUOr-

the new twisted KZ cable, "copper" color "silver plated" (rather grey looking) still to be tested

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/0-75mm-Silv...031454?hash=item2130494ede:g:EqAAAOSwE-lZ6GcY


----------



## KcLKcL (Aug 26, 2018)

Am I the only one who thinks that the KZ Bluetooth 4.2 cable has a bass booster in the DAC? My ES4 becomes so boomy with the bluetooth cable, which is pretty sad since they sound really good wired, one of the best KZ I’ve ever used. Using it with the bluetooth makes me a bit dizzy due to the boomy bass..

I wonder if the APTX cable is going to have any difference, do they sound better than the non-APTX cable?
I didn’t buy the APTX one because I’m using an iPhone 6S which has no aptx support..


----------



## jeromeaparis

KcLKcL said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that the KZ Bluetooth 4.2 cable has a bass booster in the DAC? My ES4 becomes so boomy with the bluetooth cable, which is pretty sad since they sound really good wired, one of the best KZ I’ve ever used. Using it with the bluetooth makes me a bit dizzy due to the boomy bass..
> 
> I wonder if the APTX cable is going to have any difference, do they sound better than the non-APTX cable?
> I didn’t buy the APTX one because I’m using an iPhone 6S which has no aptx support..



Did you check in the music settings of your iphone if bass boost & equ were off
and if the choice of sound profile was: "flat" (you may test the others as "classical, bass reducer" etc)


----------



## vegetaleb

So nobody tried the zs4 yet?


----------



## tripside

Apr


KcLKcL said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that the KZ Bluetooth 4.2 cable has a bass booster in the DAC? My ES4 becomes so boomy with the bluetooth cable, which is pretty sad since they sound really good wired, one of the best KZ I’ve ever used. Using it with the bluetooth makes me a bit dizzy due to the boomy bass..
> 
> I wonder if the APTX cable is going to have any difference, do they sound better than the non-APTX cable?
> I didn’t buy the APTX one because I’m using an iPhone 6S which has no aptx support..



KZ cable supports AAC codec and your iPhone will stream music using it. In terms of quality its more or less equivalent to APTX. 

I use the cable with my ED16 and I don’t find it boomy. I do think it tones down the sibilance a bit, which works to its advantage. 

If you are using the default music app, you can try using the ‘Bass reducer’ profile. It does a good at reducing the bass.


----------



## Aparker2005

Got my as10 this weekend. At first I wasn't too impressed and preferred my zs10. However now, I'm hearing even more things in the music I've never heard. Bass has improved over listening as well. I'll post a video review soon


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 26, 2018)

mathi8vadhanan said:


> @Podster likes the benjie S5 with his ZS6 and looks like a great VFM. If you can spend a bit more, I would recommend getting the Shanling M0. It's feature packed and performs brilliantly considering the size and price ($109).


I have a Benjie S5 and love it. Sound quality is good and it's tiny. I also have a Fiio X1, but it's bigger and heavier, so I don't use it as much as the S5. 

Current rig for NYC streets and subways is Benjie S5 and KZ ED9.


----------



## Aparker2005

Here's my not nearly as good as most of you's as10 review:


----------



## hiflofi (Aug 26, 2018)

Friend just showed up today with an (unpleasant, largely) surprise...the KZ AS10. He's burnt it in since the end of last week apparently.
Source is straight out of my friend's LG V30 and my SGS7 with premium Spotify.
Listened for a bit (he's not lending it to me for a test listen so I don't get to take it home) and I must agree with the negative reactions *so far*.

- _Taylor Swift - Wildest Dreams_. Usually this song has a fairly vast soundscape with generous sparkle and airiness, but *on the AS10 it sounds muffled and dark*. It's just *missing the necessary substance up in the highs when the mids are already recessed*.
- _Drake - Nonstop_. The *bass is pretty much rumbles *on the AS10. If you're a basshead, maybe the AS10 is your IEM? Vocals are clearly recessed though. I don't understand how people can say the mids are "good" when they're clearly hidden behind the bass.
- 30 Seconds To Mars - Attack. The *percussion, mostly the cymbals, are completely off to me*. They're *too subdued and they lack the necessary bite in the highs*. Again, the *vocals take a backseat to the overwhelming bassline*.
- Mansionair - Speak Easy. Usually the vocals in this song are very emotional but again, they're *veilled and the sound is almost "cuppy"*. Also, the *separation on the AS10 for this song is mediocre.*
- _Billie Eilish - You Should See Me In A Crown_. Overwhelming bass, with the *mid-bass and sub-bass being very powerful*.
- _Tep No - Promises_. Yet another song that is meant to sound spacious but completely misses on the AS10. There's *no airiness which accompanies the vocals*.

My reference IEMs are the Katana and ER3SE, so they're completely different.

Conclusion: I'm repeating myself, but the AS10 (imo) has really disappointing mids and pretty much a complete lack of treble. Bass is strong and sometimes overwhelms the music. Recommended for bassheads only. Even then, probably not.
KZ hype trains are hilarious to watch. Very fortunate I still haven't hopped on. Personally, I'm still interested in chifi and diving in the bargain bin, but I haven't bought any chifi since the ZS6 (my one and only piece of chifi) so maybe my chifi days are well and truly over before they even began?


----------



## antdroid (Aug 26, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> Friend just showed up today with an (unpleasant, largely) surprise...the KZ AS10. He's burnt it in since the end of last week apparently.
> Source is straight out of my friend's LG V30 and my SGS7 with premium Spotify.
> Listened for a bit (he's not lending it to me for a test listen so I don't get to take it home) and I must agree with the negative reactions *so far*.
> 
> ...



... but you're comparing a $1850 and a $300 IEM to a $60 one?


----------



## hiflofi (Aug 26, 2018)

antdroid said:


> ... but you're comparing a $1850 and a $300 IEM to a $60 one?


I am reviewing the AS10 generally based on a one-off BUT extended listening session.
I understand the sound is completely different but even at its price, I have the ZS6 which imo outperforms the AS10 _despite the ZS6's edgy and sibilant treble_.
*Soundstage, separation, even vocal clarity (which on the ZS6 is recessed, but not "veiled" per se like the AS10*). Even bass texture goes to the ZS6 because the *AS10's bass just totally uncontrolled although the AS10 has better bass extension*.

There's a reason_ I did not compare the AS10 directly to the Katana or ER3SE_. It gets blown out of the water. I *called them my reference IEM only to give people a general understanding of the sound signature I prefer*.

I only _wrote my impressions on the AS10 separately_, describing its sound as I heard it. No comparisons. It just doesn't sound good.

Important to note that *the AS10 is NOT mine and I do NOT own it*.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 26, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> I am reviewing the AS10 generally based on a one-off BUT extended listening session.
> I understand the sound is completely different but even at its price, I have the ZS6 which imo outperforms the AS10 *despite the ZS6's edgy treble*.
> *Soundstage, separation, even vocal clarity (which on the ZS6 is recessed, but not "veiled" per se*). Even bass texture goes to the ZS6 because the *AS10's bass just totally uncontrolled although the AS10 has better bass extension*.
> 
> ...



Fair enough. Your reference sound is probably pretty similar to me. My preferred sound signatures are similar to the Etymotics. I like the Audeze Sine and Hifiman HE560 and for this type of price range, the Tin Audio T2.

I agree the mids are recessed. Details are there, you just have to focus in on them more so than something that has more forward mids. I've listened to these side-by-side with my more neutral sounding IEMs and headphones and yes, details and air get lost a bit, but you swap some benefits with others. (Warm and laid back vs neutral/airy details)

The ZS6 extends better. Totally agree. I can't stand it's piercing highs though, but this also benefits in making it sound more detailed.  AS10 is way more laid back in comparison.

I dont think these are basshead IEMs at all. My personal thoughts though.

I prefer T2 over AS10 in most cases. It's also cheaper.


----------



## KcLKcL

tripside said:


> Apr
> 
> 
> KZ cable supports AAC codec and your iPhone will stream music using it. In terms of quality its more or less equivalent to APTX.
> ...



Does the regular (non-APTX) version supports AAC? Then yeah I'd probably don't need the APTX version. Unless the APTX version has more power.
I'm thinking that the output impedance of the cable is too high, it struggles to damp the DD properly on my ES4. It does reduce the airiness & the treble energy though. Which is both good and bad, good because there's a less sibilance going on, bad because upper frequencies lacks energy and the “hi-fi” feeling.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I don't get how anyone can hear the AS10 as mid-recessed or overly bassy. They're pretty damn balanced to my ears, with iems like the Delphinus 5, Polaris, RE800/2000, FLC8S, and A85 Virgo as references.


----------



## antdroid (Aug 27, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I don't get how anyone can hear the AS10 as mid-recessed or overly bassy. They're pretty damn balanced to my ears, with iems like the Delphinus 5, Polaris, RE800/2000, FLC8S, and A85 Virgo as references.



They are slightly recessed but not as bad as what people may be led to believe IMO. If you listen to it side by side with another IEM, it becomes more apparent, but if you just listened to it on it's own, I think you wouldn't notice it at all. I know I didn't until I started going back and forth between the AS10 and the T2. Then it became apparent that there was some lack of mid-details in the AS10. But upon more critical listen, those details are there, but just a little more faint in the background as opposed to being more forward like in the more neutral and even mids of the T2.

The AS10 isnt v-shaped. It's probably a minor U shape if that exists.

As far as bassy, I don't think they are too bassy. They have more bass than a Etymotics or T2 or something like that, but the bass is relatively clean in my opinion and luckily dont bleed into the mids and bloat it up.

At least this is how I hear it using Spinfit CP145 tips, as well as the stock tips.


----------



## Costrines

I received my as10 today. I own a lot Kz model and this just too horrible for me. Maybe I have faulty one but sound distort too much...I played with some accoustic song and just hear like broken guitar. Totally disappointed, I will continue to stick with my Es4.


----------



## Viber

hiflofi said:


> Friend just showed up today with an (unpleasant, largely) surprise...the KZ AS10. He's burnt it in since the end of last week apparently.
> Source is straight out of my friend's LG V30 and my SGS7 with premium Spotify.
> Listened for a bit (he's not lending it to me for a test listen so I don't get to take it home) and I must agree with the negative reactions *so far*.
> 
> ...



Maybe Kz made a mistake with your friend's AS10 and only put 5 of the low end BAs on each earphone?


----------



## vegetaleb

Hello
What do you think about this TRN cable compatible with KZ iems? It looks like the ZS4 comes with it so I don't know if I pay an extra $ and get the ZS4 or get this cable alone for the ZSR?
I wonder if the memory wire is more sturdy than the ZSR stock cable (which is too soft  to hold the ZSR in my ears)


----------



## Jenz

jeromeaparis said:


> Ich habe gerade das KZ-Silberkabel an der ED16 ausprobiert, und für mich auf meinem X3, verbessert es wirklich den Sound.
> Etwas mehr Schärfe ohne Härte ... Mehr Dynamik, mehr Real, mehr Tiefe.
> 
> (5.25 $ auf ebay)
> ...




Thanks for the tips, but these are not headset cables! (No mic).


The original brown ED16 cable included does not snap into the connection! The silver upgrade cable, however, fits very well.
The original is wider and thicker, does not the problem have any of the ED16 buyers?


----------



## SiggyFraud (Aug 27, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> Hello
> What do you think about this TRN cable compatible with KZ iems? It looks like the ZS4 comes with it so I don't know if I pay an extra $ and get the ZS4 or get this cable alone for the ZSR?
> I wonder if the memory wire is more sturdy than the ZSR stock cable (which is too soft  to hold the ZSR in my ears)


I personally prefer the TRN cable, both stock and the silver "upgrade", to any of the KZ cables. The ear hook is in fact a piece of soft plastic that surrounds the braid. It wraps around the earlobe easily and doesn't get deformed like the wire in the KZ cable. The only flaw for me is the split, which is placed too low down the braid.
I'm quite certain that KZ ZS4 comes with the KZ braided cable that can be found with some of the newer models. You can find it here in black.


----------



## Wiljen

SiggyFraud said:


> The only flaw for me is the split, which is placed too low down the braid.



The split is easy to get around with a couple of dental braces rubber bands.  Slide them over the cable from the jack end and they become an almost invisible slider on the cable that lets you position the split where you want.  Ended up doing that with the Comet as the mic blocks the built in slider and prevents it from being useful.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Aug 27, 2018)

Jenz said:


> Thanks for the tips, but these are not headset cables! (No mic).
> 
> 
> The original brown ED16 cable included does not snap into the connection! The silver upgrade cable, however, fits very well.
> The original is wider and thicker, does not the problem have any of the ED16 buyers?






So you allready have the KZ silver cable on your ED16 !

I guess the black plug on your picture is an angeled connector and the white one a straight one,
cause angeled are bigger (with same 0.75mm pins)
ED16 stock cable comes straight

ES4 twisted copper cable (brown redish) with straight connector & mic 3.62€
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/Newe...75f5-411b-961a-4771a62e0059&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## Ruebezahl

As the ED16 from Jenz are the one, I had at first, I can tell you, that the stock cable was an angeled one. That was the one, that I found inside the box, but as I already ordered the silver ones, I never used them. Guess the guys from KZ put in the wrong cables in the box or something like that


----------



## zazaboy

I think kz as10 has qc issues.. here we go again sigh


----------



## SSandDigital (Aug 27, 2018)

SiggyFraud said:


> I personally prefer the TRN cable, both stock and the silver "upgrade", to any of the KZ cables. The ear hook is in fact a piece of soft plastic that surrounds the braid. It wraps around the earlobe easily and doesn't get deformed like the wire in the KZ cable. The only flaw for me is the split, which is placed too low down the braid.
> I'm quite certain that KZ ZS4 comes with the KZ braided cable that can be found with some of the newer models. You can find it here in black.



I like the TRN cable, memory hook works well, soft and not irritating.  Leagues better than the NuForce garbage.  Don't know about the KZ.  The upgraded cable is what I'm using currently, and it's impressive, no issues at all with tangling.


----------



## cottonbud (Aug 27, 2018)

Interesting mod to reduce treble on KZ ZS6. Saw it on russian forum and using for a couple of months now.
Desolder wire from one of BA drivers, since they are connected in parallel. It's really simple if you have soldering iron, some experince with it and apropriate screwdriver bit for removing IEM's cover. It's also reversible, you can just solder wire back if don't happy with result.



(Green is both BA's and white is single BA) Graphs from autor of this mod. 10k treble pick is reduced by 7.5 dB and... nothing else changed. Second parallel connected BA driver just boosting treble in 10k range and not doing anything else, it's useless.



(Green is without BA's and white is single BA) For comparison, graph without both BA drivers.

_Something something at your own risk something something wait until someone else try it, if you don't trust me._


----------



## C2thew

KcLKcL said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that the KZ Bluetooth 4.2 cable has a bass booster in the DAC? My ES4 becomes so boomy with the bluetooth cable, which is pretty sad since they sound really good wired, one of the best KZ I’ve ever used. Using it with the bluetooth makes me a bit dizzy due to the boomy bass..
> 
> I wonder if the APTX cable is going to have any difference, do they sound better than the non-APTX cable?
> I didn’t buy the APTX one because I’m using an iPhone 6S which has no aptx support..



The bluetooth TRN cable DOES change the sound from the wired setup.  I can't say that it universally changes the other IEMS the same i.e. more boomy but it does get very loud.

That being said, KZ and TRN both have long term durability issues.  I've read multiple reviews on amazon that the bluetooth cables tend to last somewhere around 5-6 months under normal useage.  Mine lasted about 5 months but I used them while running so my sweat destroyed my pair. I'm unsure if i'm going to get another one.


----------



## Tunaa

*I need help over here, *My KZ silver cable has arrived to me today and somehow the sound is muffled than the original cable idk why. Any idea why that happened ? especially vocals are so different than the original kz cable(KZ ZS6) by the way this is one is second generation silver cable the red blue thing.


----------



## cottonbud

Tunaa said:


> *I need help over here, *My KZ silver cable has arrived to me today and somehow the sound is muffled than the original cable idk why. Any idea why that happened ? especially vocals are so different than the original kz cable(KZ ZS6) by the way this is one is second generation silver cable the red blue thing.


Check IEM's connectors polarity by reversing it, may be you connected cable wrong way. Or it is ground issue with cable.


----------



## peskypesky (Aug 27, 2018)

I am thinking of ordering the KZ ES4's. I have enjoyed my ED9's and ZS5's, but I like strong bass, and the ES4's apparently are good for that. If you have a pair of ES4's, would you agree?

I can get the ES4's for $19, same day free delivery:
https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-**...id=1535384214&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=es4&psc=1


----------



## Tunaa

cottonbud said:


> Check IEM's connectors polarity by reversing it, may be you connected cable wrong way. Or it is ground issue with cable.


what is ground issue ?


----------



## Tunaa

cottonbud said:


> Check IEM's connectors polarity by reversing it, may be you connected cable wrong way. Or it is ground issue with cable.


I have checked i plug them correct but still same problem.


----------



## cottonbud

Tunaa said:


> what is ground issue ?


When ground wires is not actually connected to ground, probably something wrong in 3,5mm jack connector. Compare with old cable again and if it still will be sound different, then ask seller to refund money or send new cable.


----------



## Tunaa

cottonbud said:


> When ground wires is not actually connected to ground, probably something wrong in 3,5mm jack connector. Compare with old cable again and if it still will be sound different, then ask seller to refund money or send new cable.


And there is some noises with both cable when i plug them into my smartphone. Like distortion czzzz pt pt sounds.  Thanks for advice


----------



## C2thew

pulled the trigger on the new ZS4's!  apparently they lowered the price to $13 which is worth the price for admission to try the ZS3 2.0's (which i'm calling them).  This should be exciting!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Everything seems to be on sale on Aliexpress right now... what are some good ear tips for ED16/ES4? Thanks. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...ps-Earbuds-Headphones-Spiral/32641318962.html


----------



## Lothar101 (Aug 27, 2018)

Well I ordered the KZ Ed16 and a silver TRN V10 cable before it vanishes. Does anyone have confirmation that it really has been discontinued?


----------



## Tunaa

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Everything seems to be on sale on Aliexpress right now... what are some good ear tips for ED16/ES4? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...ps-Earbuds-Headphones-Spiral/32641318962.html


i bought the Foam tips and i found the silicon tips that comes with es4-ZS6 are better somehow. Atleast for me atleast.


----------



## Ruebezahl

Lothar101 said:


> Well I ordered the KZ Ed16 and a silver TRN V10 cable before it vanishes. Does anyone have confirmation that it really has been discontinued?



I don't know, but that wouldn't be the worst solution, then they should redesign the sound and get rid of these nasty peaks in highs and rerelease it as ED16 Pro, or ED16 HD... That would make me really happy


----------



## jeromeaparis

Tunaa said:


> *I need help over here, *My KZ silver cable has arrived to me today and somehow the sound is muffled than the original cable idk why. Any idea why that happened ? especially vocals are so different than the original kz cable(KZ ZS6) by the way this is one is second generation silver cable the red blue thing.


Please show us the link so that we can see wich cable "the red blue thing" you have.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Everything seems to be on sale on Aliexpress right now... what are some good ear tips for ED16/ES4? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...ps-Earbuds-Headphones-Spiral/32641318962.html



While the stock Starlines work really well for me on many iems, I got a better fit with the Spinfit CP100 on my KZED16...and a few other over ear type iems.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Aug 27, 2018)

peskypesky said:


> I am thinking of ordering the KZ ES4's. I have enjoyed my ED9's and ZS5's, but I like strong bass, and the ES4's apparently are good for that. If you have a pair of ES4's, would you agree?
> 
> I can get the ES4's for $19, same day free delivery:
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-**...id=1535384214&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=es4&psc=1


I never had an interest in es4, but was mistakingly sent one by mistake when ordering zsr. I find it the best sounding of all the kz earphones I have tried.  Unfortunately they are really uncomfortable for me and cause me a lot of pain.  Will be trying a couple different tips and trying some different cables.

Soundwise they have a ton of low-end energy that's really intoxicating.  Mids are clear and natural.  I personally don't find them recessed enough to complain about.  Been listening to bluegrass and old country and western for the greater part of the day.  Everything sounds great.  Stage and imaging sound great for a $15 phone.

Listening to reggae and hip-hop with these things is fun. Enough sub and mb slam and punch to satisfy bassheads.  Extreme bassheads maybe not so much,  but they can handle quite a bit of eq,  so that may satisfy extreme bassist if needed.  I'm satisfied.


----------



## jeromeaparis

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Everything seems to be on sale on Aliexpress right now... what are some good ear tips for ED16/ES4? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...ps-Earbuds-Headphones-Spiral/32641318962.html



These spiral with very large bore are the one I do use with my ES4, they are the best I found (and I did try a lot)
At the opposite, on ED16, they do not sound good at all 
On ED16 the best I found (for the sound) are triple flange with 4mm bore


----------



## Tunaa

jeromeaparis said:


> Please show us the link so that we can see wich cable "the red blue thing" you have.


I have solved the issue by flipping them(reversing) it seemed there was a polarity issues.


----------



## Tunaa

jeromeaparis said:


> Please show us the link so that we can see wich cable "the red blue thing" you have.


https://penonaudio.com/kz-iem-upgrade-cable.html T


jeromeaparis said:


> Please show us the link so that we can see wich cable "the red blue thing" you have.


https://penonaudio.com/kz-iem-upgrade-cable.html Here you go.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

jeromeaparis said:


> At the opposite, on ED16, they do not sound good at all
> On ED16 the best I found (for the sound) are triple flange with 4mm bore


Do you have a link to which ones you bought?


----------



## fedcas

sino8r said:


> I can tell you that the TRN BT3 is light-years ahead of the crappy KZ bluetooth headsets. I tried all models of the KZ bluetooth and they have a terrible connection and crap battery life. The BT3 is by far the best Bluetooth experience available for the KZ. I have the aptx version and basic. Not much of a difference between the two. Battery lasts all day. There is very little audio delay. Well worth the purchase.



Hi,
I've looked in the thread but I couldn't find the answer: what about the new KZ bluetooth cable?







I've read they are much better than the old, asymmetric version. But how they compare to the TRN? Unless the difference is very noticeable, I would like to go with the KZ because of the very attractive 10.99 USD price https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009191931713.html?wid=1433363

P.S.
I've read KZ bluetooth adapter exist in 3 revisions... BT 4.1, 4.2 and 5... is that true? on gearbest I read 4.1 but I don't know if that's reliable.

Another question:
I think for just 8 USD I'll also buy the usb type C cable with built in DAC... does it sound better than the BT adapter? Or maybe there are better USB options remaining in the 10-15 usd range?


----------



## Slater

fedcas said:


> Hi,
> I've looked in the thread but I couldn't find the answer: what about the new KZ bluetooth cable?
> 
> 
> ...



The new KZ BT cable is junk, as it is full of problems. Get the TRN BT cable.

However, the KZ USB-C cable is A+.

And the USB-C cable should sound better than the BT because it is direct wired.


----------



## trumpethead

Loving my AS10 after pairing with New Bee Foams large..Tamed the highs a bit, separation is great with mucho detail..Enough bass very controlled but enough...Also sounded good with Large Starlines...Fit is very important with these. Give them power they can take it...Happy with the purchase...


----------



## nxnje

Was confused with ed16 and zsa and then i bought a pair of TRN v80.
They have been shipped today, actually paid like 24€ for them, hope it's a good price.


----------



## nxnje

toddy0191 said:


> Go for @Slater  number 3 choice; foam tips. Works for me every time I get driver  flex.
> 
> I wasn't bothered by the treble spike either,  but foams do attenuate the highs a little and make the ZS6s sound even better IMO.





maheeinfy said:


> Thanks. Option 1 did not work. I will try smaller tips when i get home today



I have to say that i tried many times to attenuate that vacuum feeling caused by the driver flex. I can hear it so hard when i put my memt x5 on with silicon tips but since when i use foam tips i don't even remember what driver flex is.
If you need to solve this, just buy a pair of foam tips (even aliexpress 0.50 cents foam tips work for this).
I think imma use them even with mt incoming trn v80 as they even tame the higs and give a little more body to the bass (at least in my memt x5, it's that what i hear).


----------



## vegetaleb

I wonder how good will be the new memory wire design of the ZS4, the ones of the ZSR were already too soft to push the earpices into my ears correctly, the best ones I have are the ATES and ZS3


----------



## jeromeaparis

Tunaa said:


> https://penonaudio.com/kz-iem-upgrade-cable.html T
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/kz-iem-upgrade-cable.html Here you go.


These are not KZ cables. They are  nice looking, but considering their thickness , I do believe the wires are made of aluminium,
(a cheap metal) plated with another metal. The only metal that sounds good is oxygen free copper: "OFC" and it may be plated with silver,
that enhances the sharpness.


----------



## NeonHD

...Anybody here live in Germany?


----------



## Tunaa

jeromeaparis said:


> These are not KZ cables. They are  nice looking, but considering their thickness , I do believe the wires are made of aluminium,
> (a cheap metal) plated with another metal. The only metal that sounds good is oxygen free copper: "OFC" and it may be plated with silver,
> that enhances the sharpness.


Why? as i know these are from KZ. I bought it from aliexpress and they came with the KZ package. So?


----------



## jeromeaparis

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Do you have a link to which ones you bought?


I have no link cause I baught them 2 years ago, but they look like this (bore, inside tube should be 4mm diameter for the sound)
I have them in transparent and yellow silicon.


----------



## Slater

jeromeaparis said:


> These are not KZ cables. They are  nice looking, but considering their thickness , I do believe the wires are made of aluminium,
> (a cheap metal) plated with another metal. The only metal that sounds good is oxygen free copper: "OFC" and it may be plated with silver,
> that enhances the sharpness.



The conductors in that wire are indeed copper, not aluminum FYI.

I just don’t think any of the KZ wires are really silver plated. I think they are tin plated (like most inexpensive “silver plated” ChiFi cables). I think they get away with marketing them as “silver”, because silver is a color in addition to being a metal.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Aug 28, 2018)

Tunaa said:


> Why? as i know these are from KZ. I bought it from aliexpress and they came with the KZ package. So?


Your cable has no KZ logo I guess, it is not "second generation silver cable"  new generation if there is one is the twisted bronze-grey color


Slater said:


> The conductors in that wire are indeed copper, not aluminum FYI.
> 
> I just don’t think any of the KZ wires are really silver plated. I think they are tin plated (like most inexpensive “silver plated” ChiFi cables). I think they get away with marketing them as “silver”, because silver is a color in addition to being a metal.


Tin plated wires sound muffled, at the opposite of silver plated (that I use with speakers since long) that sound more sharp.
Silver metal is no more expensive like it was, therefor it is now largely used in the industry.
Silver fixing: 28 August 2018: one (troy) once (31.10g) = 14.9575USD
I use the KZ silver cables with KZ logo (that turn green after some time) on ZSR and ED16, and they do inprove sharpness, clarity & punch versus stock cable.

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_712517.html

Tin and Silver plating do not look neither sound the same

The "red & blue" cable even without the KZ logo seems well to be from KZ, they insist it is professionaly silver plated + the solder contains 4% silver (this is the best for sound that I use myself) but they do not advertise the wires body are made of OFC

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...e20a-41b2-bb2f-35b2bbb85aee&priceBeautifyAB=0

Le last line of KZ cables (twisted) are advertised as pure OFC for the brown one (stock with ES4)
and pure OFC silver plated for the grey.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ear...572.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.52be4c4dHgZ136


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> The conductors in that wire are indeed copper, not aluminum FYI.
> 
> I just don’t think any of the KZ wires are really silver plated. I think they are tin plated (like most inexpensive “silver plated” ChiFi cables). I think they get away with marketing them as “silver”, because silver is a color in addition to being a metal.



Hello Slater
Did you receive the ZS4?
They are changing the price everday, yesterday I could find at 14$ now it's 16$, I hope it's not just modded ZS3


----------



## Slater (Aug 28, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> Hello Slater
> Did you receive the ZS4?
> They are changing the price everday, yesterday I could find at 14$ now it's 16$, I hope it's not just modded ZS3



Yes, I placed my order yesterday. Not sure when it will arrive (probably 2-3 weeks).

I paid $12.76 with a $2 select coupon = $10.76. I just chose the cheapest seller.


----------



## Slater

jeromeaparis said:


> Your cable has no KZ logo I guess, it is not "second generation silver cable"  new generation if there is one is the twisted bronze-grey color
> 
> Tin plated wires sound muffled, at the opposite of silver plated (that I use with speakers since long) that sound more sharp.
> Silver metal is no more expensive like it was, therefor it is now largely used in the industry.
> ...



OFC isn’t the only type of copper wire BTW.

And believe what you will. Most of these silver cables are tin.

As far as being able to hear the difference in different platings of the same exact cable (same brand, same conductors, same solder, same plugs) in a *blind* test, well that claim belongs in the sound science board not this one.


----------



## athiker94

Hello,
I have a question. To preface, I have read through 100's of threads and am trying to find the answer to this question. I"m slowly working my way through this lengthy thread... 
I was thinking about picking up a pair of the ZS5's. I read that the version 1 was really good. But, then started to see that the v2 MAY be more sibilant? Something to do with the two drivers in the barrel now. Can you still suggest the ZS5's in version 2? I currently have the ATE's and ED9's and they are wonderful. But, still seeking out new KZ IEM's. Any suggestions on this and thanks?


----------



## cottonbud

jeromeaparis said:


> Your cable has no KZ logo



No, it has.



I have this cable.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 28, 2018)

Ruebezahl said:


> I don't know, but that wouldn't be the worst solution, then they should redesign the sound and get rid of these nasty peaks in highs and rerelease it as ED16 Pro, or ED16 HD... That would make me really happy



I do not hear anything "nasty" in my ED16.  I love the sound so I obviously am not hearing them the way that you do.  You cannot assume that what YOU hear is the same for everyone.  This is the cable and tips I am using... neither are stock for the ED16.


----------



## Tunaa

jeromeaparis said:


> Your cable has no KZ logo I guess, it is not "second generation silver cable"  new generation if there is one is the twisted bronze-grey color
> 
> Tin plated wires sound muffled, at the opposite of silver plated (that I use with speakers since long) that sound more sharp.
> Silver metal is no more expensive like it was, therefor it is now largely used in the industry.
> ...


No it has significant logo on the cable's package and itself. Its obviously KZ product. BTW i have the ES4 and the new cable (ZS10-AS10-ES4) They sound even worse than the silver cable. Keeps tangling.


----------



## Tunaa

cottonbud said:


> No, it has.
> 
> 
> 
> I have this cable.


Yes that cable has KZ logo.


----------



## C2thew

Slater said:


> Yes, I placed my order yesterday. Not sure when it will arrive (probably 2-3 weeks).
> 
> I paid $12.76 with a $2 select coupon = $10.76. I just chose the cheapest seller.



whoa where'd you get the $2 select coupon from?


----------



## vegetaleb

C2thew said:


> whoa where'd you get the $2 select coupon from?



+1
I swapped coins for a 2$ coupon but it doesn't show in the AE coupons. Perhaps a bug?


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> whoa where'd you get the $2 select coupon from?



On the mobile app, where you get the daily coins, there is an option to buy select coupons for coins. And if you are a member (not sure if platinum member is required), you will see special select coupons.


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> +1
> I swapped coins for a 2$ coupon but it doesn't show in the AE coupons. Perhaps a bug?



Each coupon is different. Some are for certain stores only, all have minimum purchase levels.

For example, $6 off purchase of $65 or more.


----------



## C2thew

vegetaleb said:


> +1
> I swapped coins for a 2$ coupon but it doesn't show in the AE coupons. Perhaps a bug?



Yeah i dislike the aliexpress handling of coupons and stuff.  It give you a whole bunch of seller coupons but not a general coupon to apply for any purchase.  it's really weird.  There's "games" to get a $2 coupon but then it doesn't show in your "coupon wallet"


----------



## C2thew

Slater said:


> Each coupon is different. Some are for certain stores only, all have minimum purchase levels.
> 
> For example, $6 off purchase of $65 or more.



You must have found the golden coupon or something to get the $2 off $12.  the only one I see is a $2 off 15 but that's for "sale items" or select stores.  like i said it's weird.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> Yeah i dislike the aliexpress handling of coupons and stuff.  It give you a whole bunch of seller coupons but not a general coupon to apply for any purchase.  it's really weird.  There's "games" to get a $2 coupon but then it doesn't show in your "coupon wallet"



Yes, I agree their coupon situation is a PITA mess.

Amazon’s on the other hand, just work without all of the shenanigans.


----------



## Slater (Aug 28, 2018)

C2thew said:


> You must have found the golden coupon or something to get the $2 off $12.  the only one I see is a $2 off 15 but that's for "sale items" or select stores.  like i said it's weird.



I found some coupons for $1 off $1.01 purchase. I got a lightning charger cable for $0.39, for example.

The deals are there, you just have to explore around and find them.

The mobile app seems to be where the most stuff is - coupons, deals, multiple games, etc. The prices in the mobile app are always better than the website too (even when it’s not during these sales).


----------



## fedcas

NeonHD said:


> ...Anybody here live in Germany?


I live in Italy, but seems like they have free shipping to the EU in general. Is it worth it? it seem to be its normal price: https://audiobudget.com/product/KZ/HDS3


----------



## C2thew

Slater said:


> I found some coupons for $1 off $1.01 purchase. I got a lightning charger cable for $0.39, for example.
> 
> The deals are there, you just have to explore around and find them.
> 
> The mobile app seems to be where the most stuff is - coupons, deals, multiple games, etc. The prices in the mobile app are always better than the website too (even when it’s not during these sales).



are you a platinum member?  i think that might make a difference coupon wise.


----------



## fedcas

mbwilson111 said:


> While the stock Starlines work really well for me on many iems, I got a better fit with the Spinfit CP100 on my KZED16...and a few other over ear type iems.



nubbish question... what are these starlines I keep reading about?  is just another name for the eartips or it's a specific model?


----------



## B9Scrambler

fedcas said:


> nubbish question... what are these starlines I keep reading about?  is just another name for the eartips or it's a specific model?



Community name for KZs stock tips with the ridges.


----------



## mbwilson111

fedcas said:


> nubbish question... what are these starlines I keep reading about?  is just another name for the eartips or it's a specific model?



The Starlines are just the stock tips that come with many KZ iems... like the two I was comparing here to show the size... my KZ ED16 and my husbands KZ ES4.   This was taken when they had just arrived so they still have the stock tips and cable on them.  I have since changed the tips on my ED16 with a pair of un-used Spinfits that came with a Dunu that my husband had.

Someone here (I think) started calling them  Starlines because of that pattern on the tip of them...you should be able to see it in this photo.   For me, they work with many of my other iems... just not as well for the ED16 for me.  A Spinfit allows for deeper insertion which makes the shell rest more flush in my ear for greater comfort and possibly better sound.  Everyone has different needs and preferences.  You can buy big bags of Starlines on ebay.  I should get more.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> Community name for KZs stock tips with the ridges.



You posted while I was writing my reply.  Were you the one who first called them that?


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> You posted while I was writing my reply.  Were you the one who first called them that?



I want to say it was @CoiL but I can't recall.


----------



## fedcas (Aug 28, 2018)

Slater said:


> The new KZ BT cable is junk, as it is full of problems. Get the TRN BT cable.
> 
> However, the KZ USB-C cable is A+.
> 
> And the USB-C cable should sound better than the BT because it is direct wired.



I see... I'll get the USB-C from KZ and the BT from TRN then 

Found it here for 18 usd shipped... is it the right model? (just talking about the model, the connectors should be the right ones for my ZSR)

TRN Wireless Bluetooth Cable HIFI Earphone MMCX/2Pin/IE80 Connector Support IPX4 Use TRN V10/V20/V60 TFZ NICEHCK HK6 APT-X APTX
http://s.aliexpress.com/uaUr6vIj



mbwilson111 said:


> You posted while I was writing my reply.  Were you the one who first called them that?



I see, thabk you both


----------



## Danfish98

athiker94 said:


> Hello,
> I have a question. To preface, I have read through 100's of threads and am trying to find the answer to this question. I"m slowly working my way through this lengthy thread...
> I was thinking about picking up a pair of the ZS5's. I read that the version 1 was really good. But, then started to see that the v2 MAY be more sibilant? Something to do with the two drivers in the barrel now. Can you still suggest the ZS5's in version 2? I currently have the ATE's and ED9's and they are wonderful. But, still seeking out new KZ IEM's. Any suggestions on this and thanks?


I have a version 2 and the treble is fairly sibilant.  Foam tips tame that quite a bit and you can get them for under $20 with the current Ali sale. Well worth it at that price.


----------



## Danfish98

peskypesky said:


> I am thinking of ordering the KZ ES4's. I have enjoyed my ED9's and ZS5's, but I like strong bass, and the ES4's apparently are good for that. If you have a pair of ES4's, would you agree?
> 
> I can get the ES4's for $19, same day free delivery:
> https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-**...id=1535384214&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=es4&psc=1


ES4 has strong mid bass but I find the ZSA has better sub bass and it doesn't bleed into the mids like the ES4.


----------



## david8613

I just picked up the the kz zs10, not too crazy about them. I am having a hard time getting a good seal, I tried ear some spare tips I know give me good seal on other iems and no good. I think its the angle of the tubes. Even when I push them in and twist them with to get a good seal they sound better but I get some basss but I am still not getting the bass people are talking about and the highs and high mids are very forward and pronounce to me, not laid back like in other reviews. I am hoping its because I am not getting a good seal. advice anyone?


----------



## Deveraux

Slater said:


> That’s a very individual preference thing.
> 
> The main differences are:
> 
> ...



I’m very sorry I was not specific. All I need is a replacement for the silver upgrade cable I bought a year back. Something equally good or better than the silver kz cable for the same amount preferably under 10$. Looking for the one that gives the best sound and mic is preferred. Rest are just optional. Would like something that doesn’t turn green though.


----------



## tripside

fedcas said:


> I see... I'll get the USB-C from KZ and the BT from TRN then
> 
> Found it here for 18 usd shipped... is it the right model? (just talking about the model, the connectors should be the right ones for my ZSR)
> 
> ...



Trn has launched a new cable. I just came across it. It costs twice as much as their current cable....

http://s.aliexpress.com/zaqU3e2I


----------



## hakuzen (Aug 29, 2018)

my tips and cable for ED16. stock black starline tips with foam inside, pushed all down i could. this way, short wide tips, highs are better listened with less sibilance. sub-bass is powerful in ED16, so no need to use long narrow tips.
used the foam inside to provide a tighter fit (better seal), because nozzles are short and the combo is shallow.
sources used always have low output impedance (<0.2Ω).
their sub-bass is great for EDM, for example, and doesn't interfere with other frequencies. they sound pleasant, but more defined mids and highs would be desired. not tried EQ yet.


 


my first impression of AS10: too much midbass, they are a bit dark as a result. hope they will respond well to EQ, because it's needed for most tracks.
it seems kz boosted the lows BA because they thought that bass wouldn't be as powerful as with dynamic driver. and this wasn't necessary at all.
resolution is high, though. they are very sensitive (quite lower volume needed compared to ZS6 and ED16), and i'm afraid their impedance is lower than specified (will measure it). much source dependent, surely, and not forgiving with low quality tracks. potential is huge, i have to spend more time with them..


----------



## fedcas

Danfish98 said:


> ES4 has strong mid bass but I find the ZSA has better sub bass and it doesn't bleed into the mids like the ES4.



mmh... talking about ZSA and ES4... I have a pair of ZSR since a few days and I really like them... so I wanted to try another model from KZ, but they are infamous for having so many models... I ended up with this shopping list XD (I also have a 3 USD seller discount, and maybe even some more discount from a code I found in a review on SoundphileReview)






(note the Es4 has 2 extra cables, it's 11.26 USD otherwise). I have checked the price history and the discounts are real (not the fake 50% advertised on the item page of course, but still relevant) here is an example: https://www.pricearchive.org/aliexpress.com/item/32875117793

Yet, I think 5 KZ models is a bit too much  and it's over 50USD... so which one would you avoid? For example, I'm considering dropping the ED16 unless it's really worth it, cause I don't think the cables I'm buying for the ZSR are compatible with the ED16 (or unofficially they are?). Or myabe there is some other must-have model I forgot?

By the way, is there any other cheap accessories I should add to the cart? (the KZ USB-C cable and the TRN BT cable are already in the list)


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> are you a platinum member?  i think that might make a difference coupon wise.



Yes, platinum.


----------



## Danfish98

fedcas said:


> mmh... talking about ZSA and ES4... I have a pair of ZSR since a few days and I really like them... so I wanted to try another model from KZ, but they are infamous for having so many models... I ended up with this shopping list XD (I also have a 3 USD seller discount, and maybe even some more discount from a code I found in a review on SoundphileReview)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haven't heard the ED16 so I can't comment on it but I'd pick the ZSA by a fairly large margin over the ES4. I feel your KZ pain. I had 0 of them 3 months ago, now I own the zs5, zsa, zs10, and es4.


----------



## fedcas (Aug 28, 2018)

tripside said:


> Trn has launched a new cable. I just came across it. It costs twice as much as their current cable....
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zaqU3e2I


interesting... but... twice as much as this other vendor you mean  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606/search?origin=y&SearchText=trn+bluetooth
(both models slightly less buying in the app)

EDIT: I've read the specs of both models, but the only difference I can see is that one is bt 4.1 and the other 4.2... mmh... should I wait for a review or it should be safe to buy the BT10 instead of the BT3?


----------



## Slater

tripside said:


> Trn has launched a new cable. I just came across it. It costs twice as much as their current cable....
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/zaqU3e2I



Hmmm, specs look exactly the same as the previous one. The only difference I can see is the neck wire. I personally don’t think that difference alone is worth $40 vs $20. You can buy (2) BT3 for every (1) BT10.

I guess it depends on each individual if the neck wire is worth it.


----------



## hakuzen

fedcas said:


> mmh... talking about ZSA and ES4... I have a pair of ZSR since a few days and I really like them... so I wanted to try another model from KZ, but they are infamous for having so many models... I ended up with this shopping list XD (I also have a 3 USD seller discount, and maybe even some more discount from a code I found in a review on SoundphileReview)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


don't drop ED16.. they sound very pleasant without any EQ, they are absolutely worth it at $16, and might be discontinued soon..


aliexpress coupon of $2 (on orders of $19 or more, any product) is only available for platinum/diamond customers. it costs 200 coins.
same with coupon of $8 (on orders of $59 or more, any product), 800 coins.
but you can only get one of each during this sale.
despite of the type of customer you are, you can get lot of "select" coupons of $2 (they are only valid for products/shops which state it explicitly).


----------



## peskypesky

Danfish98 said:


> ES4 has strong mid bass but I find the ZSA has better sub bass and it doesn't bleed into the mids like the ES4.


Thank you! I'll check out reviews of the ZSA.


----------



## fedcas

Slater said:


> Hmmm, specs look exactly the same as the previous one. The only difference I can see is the neck wire. I personally don’t think that difference alone is worth $40 vs $20. You can buy (2) BT3 for every (1) BT10.
> 
> I guess it depends on each individual if the neck wire is worth it.



read my post just above yours  by the way, is 20ish USD the normal price for the BT3 or before this promotion days it was more around 30 USD?


----------



## tripside

fedcas said:


> interesting... but... twice as much as this other vendor you mean  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1825606/search?origin=y&SearchText=trn+bluetooth
> (both models slightly less buying in the app)
> 
> EDIT: I've read the specs of both models, but the only difference I can see is that one is bt 4.1 and the other 4.2... mmh... should I wait for a review or it should be safe to buy the BT10 instead of the BT3?



The vendor had priced it horrendously....
They could have also improved the dac, hard tell without listening to both models. A few people have mentioned that the older cable makes the sound more bassy. 



Slater said:


> Hmmm, specs look exactly the same as the previous one. The only difference I can see is the neck wire. I personally don’t think that difference alone is worth $40 vs $20. You can buy (2) BT3 for every (1) BT10.
> 
> I guess it depends on each individual if the neck wire is worth it.



Looks like the retail price is close to the older cable. I think the new neckband design is cleaner. Hopefully it will sound better as well.


----------



## loomisjohnson

fedcas said:


> mmh... talking about ZSA and ES4... I have a pair of ZSR since a few days and I really like them... so I wanted to try another model from KZ, but they are infamous for having so many models... I ended up with this shopping list XD (I also have a 3 USD seller discount, and maybe even some more discount from a code I found in a review on SoundphileReview)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if you already have the zsr you don't have to have the ed16, which has a similar character (albeit a little smaller, more comfortable form factor), altho i really like the ed16. i'd do a coin flip between the es4 and the zsa; you definitely need the ed9 (everyone does).


----------



## Wiljen

loomisjohnson said:


> if you already have the zsr you don't have to have the ed16, which has a similar character (albeit a little smaller, more comfortable form factor), altho i really like the ed16. i'd do a coin flip between the es4 and the zsa; you definitely need the ed9 (everyone does).



for me, ZSR > Ed16 but only slightly, and ES4 > Zsa when EQ'd but  Zsa > ES4 without EQ.


----------



## C2thew

For me the ZS4 is the next hype train!  YESSSSSSSS  

The ZS10 was bittersweet.  I mean it's good but the recessed mids and comfort kind of derailed that train so fast.  Even if the ZS4 is too sibilant, you can always fine tune it by plugging the BA with different materials.

If the ZS4 is everything i've been wanting in an iem, I'll probably grab a few more for gifts.


----------



## Slater (Aug 28, 2018)

C2thew said:


> For me the ZS4 is the next hype train!  YESSSSSSSS
> 
> The ZS10 was bittersweet.  I mean it's good but the recessed mids and comfort kind of derailed that train so fast.  Even if the ZS4 is too sibilant, you can always fine tune it by plugging the BA with different materials.
> 
> If the ZS4 is everything i've been wanting in an iem, I'll probably grab a few more for gifts.



Well don’t expect sonic miracles. I suspect it will sound similar to the ZST or ED15.

I’m going to be happy if it simply sounds better than the ZS3.

The strength of the ZS3 (and hopefully the ZS4) is the awesome fit and wicked isolation (plus looks great). Although I know the fit isn’t perfect for everyone.


----------



## Danfish98

Wiljen said:


> for me, ZSR > Ed16 but only slightly, and ES4 > Zsa when EQ'd but  Zsa > ES4 without EQ.


What EQ settings do you use for your ES4?


----------



## Wiljen

Danfish98 said:


> What EQ settings do you use for your ES4?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2355#post-14408263

-4db at 150Hz - 250Hz reduces mid-bass bloom
-2db at 1k to pull just a tad of extra energy out and remove a bit of nasal vocals
-4db at 5k to reduce the aggressive presence a tad

That formula comes as close as I have found to providing a near flat profile.


----------



## wind016

Woowee! KZ brought me back to Head-fi! I actually lost my password years ago but collecting Chifi has been so fun that I just had to come back to talk about this stuff! 

Man, China is on FIRE. I didn't even expect this. I left Head-fi when Hifiman and Woo Audio were doing some good stuff, though premium. Now this KZ company is making some great stuff. I got their ATE, ZST, ZS6, ZSR (so good I bought 2 pairs), ZS10, ED16, and AS10. I think I have some more somewhere. Probably ZS4? ES4? I dunno. I lost those, but I want to offer some comments about the newer ones because I love them.

AS10
Does anyone else feel like these are voiced like Beats headphones? It's like they took the ZS10 and then looked at Beats and thought, "That's what they want." It's SUPER V sounding. The low end is so overbearing that in order to bring details back, they increased the treble so sharp that it distorts. I'm not sure how so many reviewers are saying these are so much better than the ZS10. It's not even like I hate bass. I'm a basshead maybe half the time I listen to music. However, the bass is so emphasized that it bleeds into the mids. I even have to EQ the bass and treble down on podcasts, but these headphones handle EQ like a champ. Bring down the bass and treble and the bass won't bleed into the mids and the treble will not distort. However, even going back and forth between this and the ZS10 does not show a substantial difference in sound. The ZS10 already has strong bass and some sharp treble. The distortion levels are about same, very low. The detail retrieval and separation is about the same, which is to say fantastic for the price. The AS10 is like the ZS10 with emphasized bass, sharper treble to compensate, smaller soundstage, and more comfortable earpiece. I love the AS10, but I have to listen to it EQ'ed. 

ZS10
These are AMAZING for the price. I didn't even think the Chinese could do this let alone at this price. Low distortion, great soundstage, excellent instrumental separation, excellent detail retrieval, powerful bass, non-sibilant treble, low price, low comfort haha.

ZSR
These are my main work and study earphones. Comfortable, exciting forward sound, strong bass impact, clean treble due to treble fr dip, sound doesn't get congested even with the small soundstage, low distortion, looks good, doesn't need a lot of power. Like these so much, I bought 2 pairs.

ED16
Pretty disappointed. The treble distorts quick. I could not get it to sound better than the ZSR. They should just keep a treble dip.


----------



## pbui44

wind016 said:


> Woowee! KZ brought me back to Head-fi! I actually lost my password years ago but collecting Chifi has been so fun that I just had to come back to talk about this stuff!
> 
> Man, China is on FIRE. I didn't even expect this. I left Head-fi when Hifiman and Woo Audio were doing some good stuff, though premium. Now this KZ company is making some great stuff. I got their ATE, ZST, ZS6, ZSR (so good I bought 2 pairs), ZS10, ED16, and AS10. I think I have some more somewhere. Probably ZS4? ES4? I dunno. I lost those, but I want to offer some comments about the newer ones because I love them.
> 
> ...



Wow, another person falling from Summit-Fi to Chi-Fi.  What has this world come to???


----------



## Strat Rider

mbwilson111 said:


> Red always means Right to me.  Left could be white, blue... anything or nothing... I only like certain shades of blue... I will see what they have.



@mbwilson111......they may have the nail polish in purple


----------



## DocHoliday (Aug 29, 2018)

Slater said:


> Well don’t expect sonic miracles. I suspect it will sound similar to the ZST or ED15.
> 
> I’m going to be happy if it simply sounds better than the ZS3.
> 
> The strength of the ZS3 (and hopefully the ZS4) is the awesome fit and wicked isolation (plus looks great). Although I know the fit isn’t perfect for everyone.




Truthfully, I was hoping that KZ would mix things up a bit and put that 31005 Mid & High" balanced armature to use in the ZS4. 




 

The ZS3's complete isolation really only needs a decent spatter of micro-detail with a warm and full-bodied midrange. If the ZSA's bass has good texture and speed then I would expect the same for the ZS4. A full-bodied warm yet detailed IEM with supreme isolation from KZ would be a welcome treat right about now. Warm and detailed when done right can be just as engaging as bright and detailed. 

Case in point:



 

The HDS3 is somewhat unique amongst its siblings.  One of the older and more popular KZ's whispered that the HDS3 wasn't born in Shenzen like other KZ's.....pssssst, it was adopted......from Japan.



 

Apparently, the goal with the HDS3 was to get a DD to mimic the qualities of a BA.



 

Wouldn't it be interesting if KZ attempted to mimic the qualities of a high-end DD. 

One can only hope!


----------



## NeonHD

fedcas said:


> I live in Italy, but seems like they have free shipping to the EU in general. Is it worth it? it seem to be its normal price: https://audiobudget.com/product/KZ/HDS3



Yeah I was surprised because the HDS3 was long out of stock, you can find them for around $40 on eBay, but these ones from the official KZ store are at its normal price. 

Funny thing is that they should be worth much more than its normal price.


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> I want to say it was @CoiL but I can't recall.


Yes, it was me


----------



## vegetaleb

Some stores are a joke, when you go into store coupons they clearly put as number 1 the AE 2$ coupon (to exchange with 10 coins), which I did, but then when you go to pay suddenly this coupon is not listed anymore, I lost 20 coins with that trap, I tried to explain this to Chat of AE but the lady there was too lost to understand even after several screenshots.
Looks like I will have to wait for 11.11 for real discounts


----------



## mathi8vadhanan (Aug 29, 2018)

david8613 said:


> I just picked up the the kz zs10, not too crazy about them. I am having a hard time getting a good seal, I tried ear some spare tips I know give me good seal on other iems and no good. I think its the angle of the tubes. Even when I push them in and twist them with to get a good seal they sound better but I get some basss but I am still not getting the bass people are talking about and the highs and high mids are very forward and pronounce to me, not laid back like in other reviews. I am hoping its because I am not getting a good seal. advice anyone?



Please go one size up and try a shallow seal. ZS10 with Shanling M0 is really growing on me. With Sony A17, there's just too much sub-bass rumble.



wind016 said:


> AS10
> Does anyone else feel like these are voiced like Beats headphones? It's like they took the ZS10 and then looked at Beats and thought, "That's what they want." It's SUPER V sounding. The low end is so overbearing that in order to bring details back, they increased the treble so sharp that it distorts. I'm not sure how so many reviewers are saying these are so much better than the ZS10. It's not even like I hate bass. I'm a basshead maybe half the time I listen to music. However, the bass is so emphasized that it bleeds into the mids. I even have to EQ the bass and treble down on podcasts, but these headphones handle EQ like a champ. Bring down the bass and treble and the bass won't bleed into the mids and the treble will not distort. However, even going back and forth between this and the ZS10 does not show a substantial difference in sound. The ZS10 already has strong bass and some sharp treble. The distortion levels are about same, very low. The detail retrieval and separation is about the same, which is to say fantastic for the price. The AS10 is like the ZS10 with emphasized bass, sharper treble to compensate, smaller soundstage, and more comfortable earpiece. I love the AS10, but I have to listen to it EQ'ed.



Now we know, why they have vents on the shell and the BA bass driver. You could try increasing the size of the bass vent.


----------



## nxnje

vegetaleb said:


> Some stores are a joke, when you go into store coupons they clearly put as number 1 the AE 2$ coupon (to exchange with 10 coins), which I did, but then when you go to pay suddenly this coupon is not listed anymore, I lost 20 coins with that trap, I tried to explain this to Chat of AE but the lady there was too lost to understand even after several screenshots.
> Looks like I will have to wait for 11.11 for real discounts



Happened the same to me.
I bought 4x 2$ coupons, then i can't use them. What's best is that aliexpress support is always not helping you as their operator are not so good in english language and can't assist you even in these simple things.
I paid 24.86 for my trn v80 while i could have paid less thanks to the coupon but 3 operators couldn't help me and the same as happened when it showed me a discount for the kz ed9. 
Impressive how they can sponsor something that is not actually all true.


----------



## vegetaleb (Aug 29, 2018)

@Slater How good are the KZ Type C cables?
The memory wires are good enough or it's just a scotch tape on the edge of the cable?


----------



## loomisjohnson

NeonHD said:


> Yeah I was surprised because the HDS3 was long out of stock, you can find them for around $40 on eBay, but these ones from the official KZ store are at its normal price.
> 
> Funny thing is that they should be worth much more than its normal price.


even as kz evolves into higher dollar multidriver sets, their ancient classics like the ed9 and hds3 remain relevant. at $8 the hds3 is a no-brainer which i still reach for over a lot of much pricier microdrivers.


----------



## david8613

mathi8vadhanan said:


> Please go one size up and try a shallow seal. ZS10 with Shanling M0 is really growing on me. With Sony A17, there's just too much sub-bass rumble.
> 
> 
> 
> Now we know, why they have vents on the shell and the BA bass driver. You could try increasing the size of the bass vent.




I am at large already, and its frustrating that I cant get a good seal, I am going to try some comply tips I have at home to see if that works. I am afraid its the angle causing the problem.


----------



## HungryPanda

I find with some KZ iems that the large tips are still too small to seal correctly then I use large Auvio tips and that does the trick


----------



## Deveraux

Deveraux said:


> I’m very sorry I was not specific. All I need is a replacement for the silver upgrade cable I bought a year back. Something equally good or better than the silver kz cable for the same amount preferably under 10$. Looking for the one that gives the best sound and mic is preferred. Rest are just optional. Would like something that doesn’t turn green though.




Anybody?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Slater said:


> Hmmm, specs look exactly the same as the previous one. The only difference I can see is the neck wire. I personally don’t think that difference alone is worth $40 vs $20. You can buy (2) BT3 for every (1) BT10.
> 
> I guess it depends on each individual if the neck wire is worth it.



Interesting, I bought the BT3 a long time ago and in all my investigations could never get anything more than SBC from it.

Now it’s saying that it has APT-X and AAC support!


----------



## mbwilson111

david8613 said:


> I am at large already, and its frustrating that I cant get a good seal, I am going to try some comply tips I have at home to see if that works. I am afraid its the angle causing the problem.



I find that I need Spinfit tips in these cases.


----------



## fedcas (Aug 29, 2018)

Thanks for all your suggestions 

I decided to skip the ED16, having already the ZSR (it seems controversial which one is better, i'd say the opinions I have read are split more or less in half... but almost everyone agree that they share a very similar sound identity... so I prefer to try something different)

I'll put the HDS3 in the cart though  also I like that they seem to be really portable.


loomisjohnson said:


> at $8 the hds3 is a no-brainer which i still reach for over a lot of much pricier microdrivers.


I'll tell you a secret... it's 6.42 USD not 8  by the way, I have found this... is it a different revision or what? (it's also available from china, so they probably ship all over the world for the ones interested  )
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.4.4bac7ed2g3cR2a

should I get the regular HDS3 or these?



so here is the shopping list 
*ED9
ZSA
ES4*
ED16: dropped, see above
ZS6: they really appeal me, but the "higher" price tag is holding me back considering this crazy shopping... maybe next time 
HDS3?
ATE?​
And then:
*ZSR *(already have them)
*KZ USB-C cable
TNR BT3 or BT10 cable? both around 20 USD*​



EDIT: ok, just noticed the acoustic chamber is more open, so they are probably completely different... do you confirm the HDS3 is the one to go?






And... I've heard a lot about the ATE... is it just because they were among the first good models and the newer models I've bought are better from every point of view, or should I still get them? Found them for 8.13 USD... oh god this chi-fi... I didn't need another addiction 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...o-Earphones-Super-Bass-Noise/32463888005.html
(by the way, is the ATE the best variant? cause I see also the ATES and the ATR)






P.S.
LOL... a KZ clone?? XD https://qkzwholesalers.aliexpress.com/store/bigsale/1246446_224021.html


----------



## fedcas

mbwilson111 said:


> I find that I need Spinfit tips in these cases.



uhm... I had seen these spinfits in one of the shops where I'm buying the IEMs... a bit pricey compared to the other models, 6-7 USD for a pair I think... should I get them or there are other cheaper options to try first?

in general, what accessories should I buy for my KZs? which one do you suggest here for example: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gr...89d4882R5dH9K&origin=n&SortType=price_asc&g=y

I'm talking about the eartips, but also those silicone hooks... are they any good?


----------



## loomisjohnson

fedcas said:


> Thanks for all your suggestions
> 
> I decided to skip the ED16, having already the ZSR (it seems controversial which one is better, i'd say the opinions I have read are split more or less in half... but almost everyone agree that they share a very similar sound identity... so I prefer to try something different)
> 
> ...


the picture looks more like a edr1 than the hds3, which to my knowledge has three holes in the back--i'd buy the hds3 from the kz official store to be sure.
wrt the kz5/kz6, while opinions vary i find them both vg sounding, but i don't like the form factor--they're large and awkward fitting, where the recent iteration of kz multidrivers are sleeker and more comfortable for me. i personally don't love the ate/atr as much as some (for $5 i'd get the edr1) but many people do; they're certainly cheap enough to try for yourself.


----------



## HungryPanda

fedcas said:


> uhm... I had seen these spinfits in one of the shops where I'm buying the IEMs... a bit pricey compared to the other models, 6-7 USD for a pair I think... should I get them or there are other cheaper options to try first?
> 
> in general, what accessories should I buy for my KZs? which one do you suggest here for example: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gr...89d4882R5dH9K&origin=n&SortType=price_asc&g=y
> 
> I'm talking about the eartips, but also those silicone hooks... are they any good?


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ar-Earphones-Headset/1825606_32721513220.html
Good price in this sale


----------



## Slater

Deveraux said:


> Anybody?



TRN silver cables are great. You may have to trim or sand the plastic shoulder on the 2-pin plug a little to fit.


----------



## DocHoliday (Aug 29, 2018)

fedcas said:


> Thanks for all your suggestions
> 
> I decided to skip the ED16, having already the ZSR (it seems controversial which one is better, i'd say the opinions I have read are split more or less in half... but almost everyone agree that they share a very similar sound identity... so I prefer to try something different)
> 
> ...



My two cents:

Last night I compared the HDS3 to the ZSR.

The bass, midrange and treble have better resolution on the ZSR.
In addition the bass, midrange and treble are all slightlymore forward  on the ZSR (better presence in each case).
The HDS3 is a lot of fun but in my opinion you need to have eartips that will fit the 3mm nozzles and seal your ear canals well.
Finally, I find that the HDS3 micro-driver scales well with more power.

If you've lots of eartips and a good source then the HDS3 is a "no-brainer" like Loomis said. 
If not then you should pick up the ATE because it has a different sound signature than the ED9, ZSA and ES4 in your cart. 

I have the ATE(ii) and it, apparently, sounds different from the ATE(v) available today. If I understand correctly, the ATE(v) sounds a lot like the ATR which is worth getting. The ATE(ii) is not my preferred sound signature. It would be best to get confirmation about said differences from someone who owns all three (ATE(ii), ATE(v) & ATR) because I only have two of the three.

At any rate, this is the HDS3





 






ATR Review

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews


Also, unless you collect KZ's, like some of us, there is no need to pick up the ED Special Edition because they share a similar sound signature to the ED9. The ED9 does a better job of the same sound signature (more open airy presentation with better timbre).


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> Interesting, I bought the BT3 a long time ago and in all my investigations could never get anything more than SBC from it.
> 
> Now it’s saying that it has APT-X and AAC support!



There’s 2 versions of the BT3 - one with aptX and one without. You have to choose the right one (and the price was a few dollars higher for the aptX one). It sounds like you got the non-aptX one.


----------



## NinjaX1

Good afternoon everyone, I'm interested in the new Bluetooth module of KZ, however I can not find if it has the problem of the previous version, that you can not see videos because the sound is delayed. Is this present in this?

I appreciate everyone's attention.


----------



## Slater

NinjaX1 said:


> Good afternoon everyone, I'm interested in the new Bluetooth module of KZ, however I can not find if it has the problem of the previous version, that you can not see videos because the sound is delayed. Is this present in this?
> 
> I appreciate everyone's attention.



Hi friend, if you do a search (and limit it to within this thread), you’ll find the answer to your question.


----------



## NinjaX1

Slater said:


> Hi friend, if you do a search (and limit it to within this thread), you’ll find the answer to your question.



I swear I tried to search, but to no avail. I'm using a translator to communicate here, maybe something was missing at the time of searching


----------



## pbui44

NinjaX1 said:


> I swear I tried to search, but to no avail. I'm using a translator to communicate here, maybe something was missing at the time of searching



I hope that someone does not mind me saying this, but you can private message @paulindss for their e-mail or phone number and have them explain the KZ newest Bluetooth cable or any other product to you.


----------



## Slater

NinjaX1 said:


> I swear I tried to search, but to no avail. I'm using a translator to communicate here, maybe something was missing at the time of searching



The new KZ cable is junk and should be avoided. Choose the aptX version of the BT3 TRN cable instead.

There’s also a TRN BT10 cable, but no one has it yet to know if it’s ok or not.

I hope that helps.


----------



## NinjaX1 (Aug 29, 2018)

Slater said:


> The new KZ cable is junk and should be avoided. Choose the aptX version of the BT3 TRN cable instead.
> 
> There’s also a TRN BT10 cable, but no one has it yet to know if it’s ok or not.
> 
> I hope that helps.



Does this "BT3 TRN" cable have the sound delay problem?

And you already helped yes, thank you.


----------



## Slater

NinjaX1 said:


> Does this "BT3 TRN" cable have the sound delay problem?
> 
> And you already helped yes, thank you.



Mine doesn't (and if it does it's not noticeable). But note that there's (2) different BT3 cables - 1 with and 1 without aptX. I can't speak for the one without aptX as I only have the aptX version.

Also, I can't speak for the BT10 (yet anyways, as I just ordered it yesterday).

And please note that I have an iPhone, so I don't technically even have/use aptX (I did when I had Android, but that was a while ago). So when I am connecting to my iPhone, it's using the default codec (not sure if they support AAC or not).


----------



## DallaPo

Dear Chi-Fi community,

with a heavy heart I would like to separate from a part of my Knowledge Zenith (KZ) collection.
I can't hear them all at once anyway and I invested a lot of money to review them. Now I want to give someone else the opportunity to dive deeper into the Chi-Fi world and make the comparison for himself. The condition of all IEMs is like new!

This collection includes 11 IEMs:
ED12, ZST, ES3, ZS3, ZS5, ZS6, ZSA, ES4, ZS10, ZSR, ED16|ZS6

All are functional and already reviewed on my site:

https://david-hahn.wixsite.com/chi-fiear/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH

In addition I pack some cables, also a silver upgrade cable, a Bluetooth cable, 1 set of foam tips and different sizes of the KZ silicone tips (Starline). On top there are 2 softcases and the large one of the pictures.

In total I would like 180 €, which is significantly below the purchase price.
If you are interested, please contact me via Facebook or e-mail:

Facebook: CHI-FIEAR
Mail: chi-fiear@gmx.de


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Slater said:


> Mine doesn't (and if it does it's not noticeable). But note that there's (2) different BT3 cables - 1 with and 1 without aptX. I can't speak for the one without aptX as I only have the aptX version.
> 
> Also, I can't speak for the BT10 (yet anyways, as I just ordered it yesterday).
> 
> And please note that I have an iPhone, so I don't technically even have/use aptX (I did when I had Android, but that was a while ago). So when I am connecting to my iPhone, it's using the default codec (not sure if they support AAC or not).



I followed this guide:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions...-bluetooth-device-supports-over-a2dp/42190656

And found out I must have the none apt-x / aac version of the BT3.

Now I’m torn, I don’t have any problems with the BT3 except it doesn’t support AAC. The price is similar, but not sure if I’m falling into the newer = better!


----------



## Slater

DallaPo said:


> Dear Chi-Fi community,
> 
> with a heavy heart I would like to separate from a part of my Knowledge Zenith (KZ) collection.
> I can't hear them all at once anyway and I invested a lot of money to review them. Now I want to give someone else the opportunity to dive deeper into the Chi-Fi world and make the comparison for himself. The condition of all IEMs is like new!
> ...



Good luck with the sale friend. I would move this to the For Sale board though.


----------



## DallaPo

Slater said:


> Good luck with the sale friend. I would move this to the For Sale board though.



Thanks,
I didn't know there was anything like this around.


----------



## Slater

DallaPo said:


> Thanks,
> I didn't know there was anything like this around.



https://www.head-fi.org/categories/for-sale-trade-and-feedback-forums.109/


----------



## paulindss

NinjaX1 said:


> I swear I tried to search, but to no avail. I'm using a translator to communicate here, maybe something was missing at the time of searching



If you need any help with communication in these forums i can help you, just pm me in portuguese, or try to reach me on Facebook, etc, i can give you my profile.


----------



## Wiljen

I posted my comparison of the Zs6 to a bunch of the recent metal shell clones on my blog.  Some like the PHB we can discuss openly here.  others that I included I cannot so I put it there instead of here.  Blog link in signature.


----------



## david8613

How does the kz zs10 compare to the kz as10?


----------



## Slater

david8613 said:


> How does the kz zs10 compare to the kz as10?



A quick search (10 seconds) yielded this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2396#post-14451063

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2389#post-14446462

I’m sure if you search longer than I did, you’ll find more comparisons. Search is a very powerful tool, and is extremely helpful especially in this thread (which has thousands of pages)! Info gets lost quickly, which is why searching is so important.


----------



## carltonh

Wow, I'm not sure how many months it took me to catch up with this thread. I've been reading since I got a pre-release ZS10. (Plus years before of dozens of KZs I've bought and know.) I've had most of the "ancient" KZs before it, but only the ES3 of the hybrid KZs. The others were catastrophic IMO from an unequalized perspective. I'm a bit of a metalhead basshead. The ZS10 was IMO, quite bad with KZ Starlines, but great with Whirlwind or related type JVC/Tennmak tips for my ears that require the largest possible tips. With that adjustment the ZS10 is better than anything I expect from KZ in 2 years into the future.  With an EQ of 2 Db down at 3 Khz with a width of 2-4 Khz, this is so far above anything I've heard before, it is hard to compare. The Pioneer CH9T and CH5T and  Magaosi K3 Pro are uncompariblly a level (or many levels) below.


----------



## carltonh

carltonh said:


> Wow, I'm not sure how many months it took me to catch up with this thread. I've been reading since I got a pre-release ZS10. (Plus years before of dozens of KZs I've bought and know.) I've had most of the "ancient" KZs before it, but only the ES3 of the hybrid KZs. The others were catastrophic IMO from an unequalized perspective. I'm a bit of a metalhead basshead. The ZS10 was IMO, quite bad with KZ Starlines, but great with Whirlwind or related type JVC/Tennmak tips for my ears that require the largest possible tips. With that adjustment the ZS10 is better than anything I expect from KZ in 2 years into the future.  With an EQ of 2 Db down at 3 Khz with a width of 2-4 Khz, this is so far above anything I've heard before, it is hard to compare. The Pioneer CH9T and CH5T and  Magaosi K3 Pro are uncompariblly a level (or many levels) below.


I forgot to add that I'm using an IFI DSD Nano, a FIIO Q1, and a LG V20 as source


----------



## randomnin

carltonh said:


> Wow, I'm not sure how many months it took me to catch up with this thread. I've been reading since I got a pre-release ZS10. (Plus years before of dozens of KZs I've bought and know.) I've had most of the "ancient" KZs before it, but only the ES3 of the hybrid KZs. The others were catastrophic IMO from an unequalized perspective. I'm a bit of a metalhead basshead. The ZS10 was IMO, quite bad with KZ Starlines, but great with Whirlwind or related type JVC/Tennmak tips for my ears that require the largest possible tips. With that adjustment the ZS10 is better than anything I expect from KZ in 2 years into the future.  With an EQ of 2 Db down at 3 Khz with a width of 2-4 Khz, this is so far above anything I've heard before, it is hard to compare. The Pioneer CH9T and CH5T and  Magaosi K3 Pro are uncompariblly a level (or many levels) below.


So ZS10 > CH9T;CH5T;K3 Pro ... Shots fired. Would you mind elaborating?


----------



## Shaolinjordan

I have the ed16 (straight connector) and want to buy the trn bt10/bt3 cable, which only comes with the angled connector. Has anyone faced a similar problem/know if it really matters?

thanks


----------



## Shaolinjordan

Slater said:


> Mine doesn't (and if it does it's not noticeable). But note that there's (2) different BT3 cables - 1 with and 1 without aptX. I can't speak for the one without aptX as I only have the aptX version.
> 
> Also, I can't speak for the BT10 (yet anyways, as I just ordered it yesterday).
> 
> And please note that I have an iPhone, so I don't technically even have/use aptX (I did when I had Android, but that was a while ago). So when I am connecting to my iPhone, it's using the default codec (not sure if they support AAC or not).



Just saw you have a trn bt3 - does it work with earphones that normally use straight connector? I have ed16.


----------



## Mellowship

Why on earth didn't KZ stick with one type of connector? 
Well, I have two pairs of ZS5 and two pairs of ZS3, which use the same "tipe A" connection. So I got the "type A" bluetooth cable, a pair of "type A" silver-plated copper gray cables, one "type A" USB-C cable. Now I have all grounds covered: I use one ZS5 with the 3.5 cable, the other with the OTG USB-C cable, one ZS3 with the blueetooth and the other with a 3.5 cable. 
Now I wish to try some new KZ stuff and can't figure out wich of them - if any - use the same connection as the ZS3/5. 
Can you lend me a helping hand? I sure don't want to waste money on other accessories...


----------



## Slater

Shaolinjordan said:


> Just saw you have a trn bt3 - does it work with earphones that normally use straight connector? I have ed16.



Not unless you trim it with a razor blade or sand or down.


----------



## NinjaX1

Slater said:


> Mine doesn't (and if it does it's not noticeable). But note that there's (2) different BT3 cables - 1 with and 1 without aptX. I can't speak for the one without aptX as I only have the aptX version.
> 
> Also, I can't speak for the BT10 (yet anyways, as I just ordered it yesterday).
> 
> And please note that I have an iPhone, so I don't technically even have/use aptX (I did when I had Android, but that was a while ago). So when I am connecting to my iPhone, it's using the default codec (not sure if they support AAC or not).



I understand, in case it would be better if you bought this module than an EP52. Do you have any reliable AliExpress links?

Thank you for your attention again.


----------



## Slater

NinjaX1 said:


> I understand, in case it would be better if you bought this module than an EP52. Do you have any reliable AliExpress links?
> 
> Thank you for your attention again.



I have the EP52. It’s a nice Bluetooth IEM, and I use it a lot. It sounds good, has a long battery life with a long range, and doesn’t cut out like the KZ cables. I don’t remember if it supports aptX though (my phone doesn’t have aptX anyways so I don’t pay much attention). 

The strengths of the KZ or TRN setup is versatility. If you don’t like the sound tuning of the EP52 too bad, you’re stuck with it. But with KZ or TRN, you can plug into numerous IEMs. And then you can change any of those same IEMs into wired mode if you wanted (which isn’t possible with the EP52).


----------



## Wiljen

david8613 said:


> How does the kz zs10 compare to the kz as10?



Rather poorly.  The AS10 is a bit smaller shell so fit is likely to be easier with the AS10 although it still is fairly large.    On technicals, the AS10 is better in nearly every category.  Even in places where I would have expected the Zs10 to best the AS10 like bass extension, the AS10 is better.   I'm not as big a fan of the AS10 as some you will find here, I think it is probably Kz's best effort to date, but it is not the world beater some would claim.  It is a very solid entry at the price point and becomes more and more marginal as you move up in price.   For example, at the $100 mark, I'd still rather have the I-basso IT01 due to improved build and better tonality.


----------



## nxnje

Hello boys
I ordered the trn v80 which is on the way
I've seen it has 6mm nozzle, like the one the KZ ZSR has.
So.. as the nozzle is very big, which (very)CHEAP foam tips could i buy?
I have usually bought t300 size for like 0.60€ per pair, but the T300 doesn't fit the v80 as the inner diameter is 4.5
The t400 is like 5mm as inner diameter or like that but it is very big for my ear.
What can i actually do?


----------



## TechnoidFR

It's weird but sick tips of as10 go out of my ear for one ear. I use now other tips in silicone which is more "standard" and it's ok


----------



## david8613

Wiljen said:


> Rather poorly.  The AS10 is a bit smaller shell so fit is likely to be easier with the AS10 although it still is fairly large.    On technicals, the AS10 is better in nearly every category.  Even in places where I would have expected the Zs10 to best the AS10 like bass extension, the AS10 is better.   I'm not as big a fan of the AS10 as some you will find here, I think it is probably Kz's best effort to date, but it is not the world beater some would claim.  It is a very solid entry at the price point and becomes more and more marginal as you move up in price.   For example, at the $100 mark, I'd still rather have the I-basso IT01 due to improved build and better tonality.



I was a club head back in the day, but I don't believe I am a bass head, or maybe I am? I don't know but I am looking for an iem that has that fun, thick bass but still has all the other frequency intact. for instance I like my vmoda crossfade wireless 2 sounds very nice with the hiby r3 wired of course. anything like that in an iem?


----------



## Wiljen

david8613 said:


> I was a club head back in the day, but I don't believe I am a bass head, or maybe I am? I don't know but I am looking for an iem that has that fun, thick bass but still has all the other frequency intact. for instance I like my vmoda crossfade wireless 2 sounds very nice with the hiby r3 wired of course. anything like that in an iem?



On the cheap, Kz ES4 sounds like it would fit.  Maybe Zs4 with its lineage but haven't had one in hand yet.   On the opposite end of the spectrum $ wise, the Empire Bravado that I just tested sounds like it might be your endgame Iem.  Granted it is extremely pricy, but wow does it have the bass without messing up the rest of the signature.  Even if not in the market for something that pricy, take a listen if you get the chance as it will give you an idea what can be done in an in-ear.


----------



## carltonh

randomnin said:


> So ZS10 > CH9T;CH5T;K3 Pro ... Shots fired. Would you mind elaborating?



If people can't get a good fit on ZS10, I can understand someone disagreeing. But the imaging, soundstage are significantly better, and if you EQ down at 2-4 Khz, you can tell that micro-details are better too. Without EQing, that range sort of hides details, which is why many people prefer the V shape with a hump at ~6 Khz to artificially appear as more detailed. I preferred that too until I had the ZS10, and now the 6 Khz bump in most earphones I have to EQ down or it feels splatty. But going from 3 to 5 drives from the Magaosi K3 Pro to the ZS10, you can really feel that the drivers add lots of space. I think the CH9T is a single driver that is just slightly better than the K3 Pro, but already naturally EQ'ed perfect.

All 4 of these I've mentioned are EQable to be basshead too, and the mids and treble stays clean and unharmed when boosting bass, and it can go deep below 20 Hz where you feel it below what technically counts as the range of human hearing. I'm doubting the AS10 could do this.


----------



## Wiljen

carltonh said:


> If people can't get a good fit on ZS10, I can understand someone disagreeing. But the imaging, soundstage are significantly better, and if you EQ down at 2-4 Khz, you can tell that micro-details are better too. Without EQing, that range sort of hides details, which is why many people prefer the V shape with a hump at ~6 Khz to artificially appear as more detailed. I preferred that too until I had the ZS10, and now the 6 Khz bump in most earphones I have to EQ down or it feels splatty. But going from 3 to 5 drives from the Magaosi K3 Pro to the ZS10, you can really feel that the drivers add lots of space. I think the CH9T is a single driver that is just slightly better than the K3 Pro, but already naturally EQ'ed perfect.
> 
> All 4 of these I've mentioned are EQable to be basshead too, and the mids and treble stays clean and unharmed when boosting bass, and it can go deep below 20 Hz where you feel it below what technically counts as the range of human hearing. I'm doubting the AS10 could do this.



I'm doubting any of them have much of anything below 30Hz let alone 20Hz.  That would be extremely good extension and from my listening the Zs10 rolls over very substantially below about 40Hz and the K3pro rolls off higher up than the Zs10.


----------



## wind016

pbui44 said:


> Wow, another person falling from Summit-Fi to Chi-Fi.  What has this world come to???



Haha it's crazy how close a KZ ZS10 is to an HD800 for just $40. The expensive headphones all have issues anyways. Theres always some distortion or  congestion somewhere. Electrostats are high maintenance. Cant use it with wet hair. Need special equipment. HD800 still needs amp. I just don't care to have to sit down to listen to music now and I don't enjoy my music any less with the Chi-fi stuff. Actually their headphones seem to handle EQ better than headphones. The AS10 is an EQ champ. It can play pop, rock, orchestral with some EQ tweaks and I don't really notice much affect to the other frequencies. And I just listen to them with the TRN BT3 Bluetooth adapter. Maybe I'm also not as discerning these days.



mathi8vadhanan said:


> Please go one size up and try a shallow seal. ZS10 with Shanling M0 is really growing on me. With Sony A17, there's just too much sub-bass rumble.
> 
> 
> 
> Now we know, why they have vents on the shell and the BA bass driver. You could try increasing the size of the bass vent.



Man, I don't know if I trust myself modding. I have the bass EQ way down tho.


----------



## nxnje

wind016 said:


> Haha it's crazy how close a KZ ZS10 is to an HD800 for just $40. The expensive headphones all have issues anyways. Theres always some distortion or  congestion somewhere. Electrostats are high maintenance. Cant use it with wet hair. Need special equipment. HD800 still needs amp. I just don't care to have to sit down to listen to music now and I don't enjoy my music any less with the Chi-fi stuff. Actually their headphones seem to handle EQ better than headphones. The AS10 is an EQ champ. It can play pop, rock, orchestral with some EQ tweaks and I don't really notice much affect to the other frequencies. And I just listen to them with the TRN BT3 Bluetooth adapter. Maybe I'm also not as discerning these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I don't know if I trust myself modding. I have the bass EQ way down tho.



Ehm, i tried the KZ ZS10 from a friend, just for like 10 mins. I know it's not enough to judge a pair of headphones but with A&K AK240 + KZ ZS10 i didn't feel they were close to hd800s..
HD800 are one of the best headphones i've ever tried and analitically i think the best i've used in the studio.. 
I doubt (as i remember like that) that zs10 could be near the hd800..


----------



## wind016

nxnje said:


> Ehm, i tried the KZ ZS10 from a friend, just for like 10 mins. I know it's not enough to judge a pair of headphones but with A&K AK240 + KZ ZS10 i didn't feel they were close to hd800s..
> HD800 are one of the best headphones i've ever tried and analitically i think the best i've used in the studio..
> I doubt (as i remember like that) that zs10 could be near the hd800..



You're probably right. I haven't used my HD800 in months. I think the ZS10 is extremely detailed for $40. I'm not sure if HD800 resolves much more. Maybe I should AB them sometime.


----------



## SSandDigital

Yeah, I'm still not convinced about the ZS10, but am intrigued by the AS10.


----------



## pbui44

wind016 said:


> You're probably right. I haven't used my HD800 in months. I think the ZS10 is extremely detailed for $40. I'm not sure if HD800 resolves much more. Maybe I should AB them sometime.



Unused HD800?  Bro, I will trade you my unopened and pristine KZ ZSA for your old and moldy HD800.


----------



## SSandDigital (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm really hoping KZ are delaying BA10 to redesign the shell, realizing that yeah... We don't need another campfire uncomfortable copy, and maybe, just maybe, make a metal shell that doesn't have sharp angles.  And does an all BA IEM need those giant vents?  As said, I hope KZ designers are going back to do some redesigning.


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2018)

SSandDigital said:


> I'm really hoping KZ are delaying BA10 to redesign the shell, realizing that yeah... We don't need another campfire uncomfortable copy, and maybe, just maybe, make a metal shell that doesn't have sharp angles.  And does an all BA IEM need those giant vents?  As said, I hope KZ designers are going back to do some redesigning.



Seeing as it’s not even out yet, and no one has publicly tried them, we have no idea of the fit. For all we know, they could be super comfortable.

Remember, the fit and comfort is determined moreso by the front where the nozzle is, not by what the back looks like.

I can name dozens of IEMs that “look” uncomfortable as heck, but they fit people fine.

Why not just wait and see, before getting worked up?


----------



## hiflofi (Aug 30, 2018)

When it comes to chifi, this is exactly what makes it almost unbearable.
I haven't heard the ZS10 but if the AS10 is meant to be better (I finally got another listen and we used the same gear, this time with an IEMatch just to make sure the OI wasn't causing problems with the BAs), then there's NO way KZ has anything close to TOTL gear.
The tonality on the AS10 tends to warmth while that on the HD800S goes the opposite way. Further, I've already stated this but the AS10 sounds like a muddy mess even compared to Etys.
I just don't understand why people can't be reasonable. KZ is good for its price. Don't overreach.
I'm curious as to the responses some of these wild claims would get if you posted it in the HD800S thread or in the TOTL IEMs thread.


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2018)

hiflofi said:


> I just don't understand why people can't be reasonable. KZ is good for its price. Don't overreach.
> 
> I'm curious as to the responses some of these wild claims would get if you posted it in the HD800S thread or in the TOTL IEMs thread.



You, sir, win a cookie 

To reiterate your point, I'd love to know who comes up with these wild claims?! The direct comparisons with HD800, Campfire Andromeda, etc are comical.

KZs are a low budget entry-level ChiFi stepping stone IEM, that offers a surprising amount of bang for the buck. They're good for low budgets and/or beginners on their audiophile journey to better gear. They are not a substitute for better or TOTL gear, nor does KZ market them that way.


----------



## antdroid

hiflofi said:


> When it comes to chifi, this is exactly what makes it almost unbearable.
> I haven't heard the ZS10 but if the AS10 is meant to be better (I finally got another listen and we used the same gear, this time with an IEMatch just to make sure the OI wasn't causing problems with the BAs), then there's NO way KZ has anything close to TOTL gear.
> The tonality on the AS10 tends to warmth while that on the HD800S goes the opposite way. Further, I've already stated this but the AS10 sounds like a muddy mess even compared to Etys.
> I just don't understand why people can't be reasonable. KZ is good for its price. Don't overreach.
> I'm curious as to the responses some of these wild claims would get if you posted it in the HD800S thread or in the TOTL IEMs thread.



KZ AS10 and ZS10 are comparable to a Stax SR009 + HeadAmp Blue Hawaii. The KZ's may even be more detailed and better in the upper range than those. Actually its no contest.

As for dynamics, I think they also beat the Focal lineup (Utopias and Clears) in every way, or come extremely close. But they only cost a $25, not $4000.



/s


----------



## wind016

Lol ok. Yes the HD800 costs more. Is it more resolving than these $40 ear buds? Maybe a bit more. You guys hold summit fi at such a height like they can do no wrong compared to these little things. The HD800, stax omegas, whatever, are just products to me. I don't really care if a $40 ear bud gets close. I have no summit fi ego. Yes summit fi is better, but a $40 can get close in detail now. Summit fi is barely evolving. The chi fi is improving at a MUCH faster rate. This is fascinating to me. I don't care to argue. Leave your ego at the door.


----------



## HungryPanda

I can enjoy music on a $10 earbud or my LCD-X and everything in between if it's decent


----------



## wind016

hiflofi said:


> When it comes to chifi, this is exactly what makes it almost unbearable.
> I haven't heard the ZS10 but if the AS10 is meant to be better (I finally got another listen and we used the same gear, this time with an IEMatch just to make sure the OI wasn't causing problems with the BAs), then there's NO way KZ has anything close to TOTL gear.
> The tonality on the AS10 tends to warmth while that on the HD800S goes the opposite way. Further, I've already stated this but the AS10 sounds like a muddy mess even compared to Etys.
> I just don't understand why people can't be reasonable. KZ is good for its price. Don't overreach.
> I'm curious as to the responses some of these wild claims would get if you posted it in the HD800S thread or in the TOTL IEMs thread.



I already gave my impressions of the AS10 in this thread. 

"AS10
Does anyone else feel like these are voiced like Beats headphones? It's like they took the ZS10 and then looked at Beats and thought, "That's what they want." It's SUPER V sounding. The low end is so overbearing that in order to bring details back, they increased the treble so sharp that it distorts. I'm not sure how so many reviewers are saying these are so much better than the ZS10. It's not even like I hate bass. I'm a basshead maybe half the time I listen to music. However, the bass is so emphasized that it bleeds into the mids. I even have to EQ the bass and treble down on podcasts, but these headphones handle EQ like a champ. Bring down the bass and treble and the bass won't bleed into the mids and the treble will not distort. However, even going back and forth between this and the ZS10 does not show a substantial difference in sound. The ZS10 already has strong bass and some sharp treble. The distortion levels are about same, very low. The detail retrieval and separation is about the same, which is to say fantastic for the price. The AS10 is like the ZS10 with emphasized bass, sharper treble to compensate, smaller soundstage, and more comfortable earpiece. I love the AS10, but I have to listen to it EQ'ed. "


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I can enjoy music on a $10 earbud or my LCD-X and everything in between if it's decent



Agreed. I enjoy my $2 KZ EDR1 just as much as my $200 Magaosi K5 if it's decent.

I wish more people would do what your wife preaches - just get lost in the music and enjoy the moment, instead of worrying about every trivial minutiae.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Aug 30, 2018)

Slater said:


> You, sir, win a cookie
> 
> To reiterate your point, I'd love to know who comes up with these wild claims?! The direct comparisons with HD800, Campfire Andromeda, etc are comical.
> 
> KZs are a low budget entry-level ChiFi stepping stone IEM, that offers a surprising amount of bang for the buck. They're good for low budgets and/or beginners on their audiophile journey to better gear. They are not a substitute for better or TOTL gear, nor does KZ market them that way.



I'd also love to know how people can perceive a "hype train" from only a few comments praising a model. Guess they weren't around when the Memt X5 was discussed. Both extremes on the spectrum does annoy me, but its better to acknowledge and rectify rather than focusing on only one side of it.

The way I see it, most models have been polarizing so far, which is a pass in my book with all the models being released allowing more choice. People are gonna have their preferences.


Bisonicr's review of the ZS4 is up, typical KZ V-shaped sig, really good fit (as expected on the ZS3 successor)
http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55720021.html


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I personally think that most ToTL stuff sounds like complete poo. Personally could care less if I can hear the friggen Oboe player pick his nose and wipe off under his chair. Dull and lifeless. Cold and sterile. Thats what I feel listening to most "audiophile" headphones. 

I love the edr1, and as we speak I'm  jamming out on some $9 EMX500 earbuds and loving life right now. Thankfully this whole industry is blown up so much that all of us have a place to go and get what we like. I also like that a cheap KZ can get me right where a $200-$250 consumer brand phone was getting me a couple years ago(cks1000, ckm99, FXT200 ect)


----------



## SSandDigital

Just shows how far behind IEM are or maybe always will be.  No denying headphones are still decades behind speakers, and IEM even further distant.  

But as others said, I like listening to my music on IEM a much as I do on my monitors.


----------



## antdroid

My favorite ear bud is a $10 Yincrow X6 and my favorite IEM I own right now is the $45 T2   - I probably like it equally to my (soon to be converted to custom) Unique Melody ME1 and previous higher costing IEMs. But I also really appreciate the Focal Elex and HE560 I have too. 

I listen to all of these pretty equally. I just added the Mobius to my collection and it sounds great too. But that doesnt mean the cheaper buds and iems are technically better than the higher end stuff.


----------



## nxnje

wind016 said:


> You're probably right. I haven't used my HD800 in months. I think the ZS10 is extremely detailed for $40. I'm not sure if HD800 resolves much more. Maybe I should AB them sometime.


Uh yes, ZS10 (if i remember well) is extremely detailed, i have to admit it.
AB comparisons anyway are not easy (at least for me) as ear are influenced by the last headphone you've put in, so u will not appreciate the difference if you swap them fast.
What i can say is that price of the ZS10 is obviously surprising, but i'm even more surprised when i read people who are happy with their ED16A OR ZSA which cost the same money as a mainstream t-shirt.
This is actually unbelievable: years ago you should spend at least 100$ to get something like an ED16 or something like that, now with 21€ you can buy a TRN v80 (the one that i'm waiting for as it was shipped) that is well-reviewed everywhere and has got 4 drivers.. chinese technology is a real deal.

PS: HD800 are a paradise if amped well


----------



## Shaolinjordan

Slater said:


> Not unless you trim it with a razor blade or sand or down.



So the only bluetooth cable for the ed16 is the kz own brand one that apparently sucks?

thanks


----------



## Wiljen

Got a couple more ES4 and ZSa yesterday and got to looking at the cables.  Has anyone else noticed that the splitter is nearly 1/2 way down the cable length as compared to the previous batch where they were closer to 1/3 the way from the ears to the jack?   The mic seems to have been moved away from the earpiece by about another 2.5-3 inches as well.


----------



## crabdog

Zerohour88 said:


> I'd also love to know how people can perceive a "hype train" from only a few comments praising a model. Guess they weren't around when the Memt X5 was discussed. Both extremes on the spectrum does annoy me, but its better to acknowledge and rectify rather than focusing on only one side of it.
> 
> The way I see it, most models have been polarizing so far, which is a pass in my book with all the models being released allowing more choice. People are gonna have their preferences.
> 
> ...


I just skimmed through that but it seems like he was quite pleased with it. I have a ZS4 coming next week, so looking forward to that.


----------



## loomisjohnson (Aug 31, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I personally think that most ToTL stuff sounds like complete poo. Personally could care less if I can hear the friggen Oboe player pick his nose and wipe off under his chair. Dull and lifeless. Cold and sterile. Thats what I feel listening to most "audiophile" headphones.
> 
> I love the edr1, and as we speak I'm  jamming out on some $9 EMX500 earbuds and loving life right now. Thankfully this whole industry is blown up so much that all of us have a place to go and get what we like. I also like that a cheap KZ can get me right where a $200-$250 consumer brand phone was getting me a couple years ago(cks1000, ckm99, FXT200 ect)


it's tough to generalize in a largely subjective endeavor, but i would agree that purely on technical abilities there are some current <$10 models that can outperform many of the $100 iems  i accumulated from a few years ago (yamaha eph100, sony xba, etc.). that does not mean that these current <$10 models will outperform the highly ranked current >$100 models--i really like the edr1 as well, but it doesn't play in the same league as, say the it01 or sech9t. i do agree that alot of the megapriced totl phones i've heard tend towards that hyperanalytical, colorless signature which leave one more impressed than moved.


----------



## SSandDigital

Agreed, if the other IEMs are as good as the V80 as my impression they are, it's impressive how competitively the Chinese are replicating technology or in some cases innovating (graphene).  SE215 was for longest time the best value @ $125, now it's obliterated by $30 IEMs.  Even the venerable Etymotic appear to be stagnant in comparison, stubbornly continuing with their 1 BA, only slightly adjusting filters but continuing to charge more and more for the same 20 year old tech.


----------



## athiker94

Wanted your advice about something. I really don't have any tips to start experimenting with tip rolling. Can any of you recommend any assorted groups of tips through somewhere like ali#expres@ or somewhere else. Just something inexpensive with a varied selection of tips to start trying new sounds with the KZ's?

Thanks!


----------



## SSandDigital

New Bee is popular, on Amazon for $8.


----------



## nxnje

Yo guyssss
Could someone please tell me if there are very cheap foam tips (i pay like 60 cents for them to mount on my memt x5) that can fit TRN v80?

I saw it has 6mm nozzle like the ZSR.

Could you please link me foam tips for the ZSR on aliexpress so? I don't know which size as T300 is perfect for me but it doesn't fit the nozzle i think.


----------



## HungryPanda

athiker94 said:


> Wanted your advice about something. I really don't have any tips to start experimenting with tip rolling. Can any of you recommend any assorted groups of tips through somewhere like ali#expres@ or somewhere else. Just something inexpensive with a varied selection of tips to start trying new sounds with the KZ's?
> 
> Thanks!


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12p...s-Earbuds-eartips-Dual-color/32775747645.html


----------



## wind016

BadReligionPunk said:


> I personally think that most ToTL stuff sounds like complete poo. Personally could care less if I can hear the friggen Oboe player pick his nose and wipe off under his chair. Dull and lifeless. Cold and sterile. Thats what I feel listening to most "audiophile" headphones.
> 
> I love the edr1, and as we speak I'm  jamming out on some $9 EMX500 earbuds and loving life right now. Thankfully this whole industry is blown up so much that all of us have a place to go and get what we like. I also like that a cheap KZ can get me right where a $200-$250 consumer brand phone was getting me a couple years ago(cks1000, ckm99, FXT200 ect)



That's another issue with TOTL products as well. I like detail but I also don't want to hear all the imperfections in the music. Most of my music is downloaded MP3s from Amazon and iTubes now. I don't want to hear the clipping. That's why I quite like the ZSR as much as much as my better stuff. Very forward and impactful sound but theres an appreciated treble dip. 



nxnje said:


> Uh yes, ZS10 (if i remember well) is extremely detailed, i have to admit it.
> AB comparisons anyway are not easy (at least for me) as ear are influenced by the last headphone you've put in, so u will not appreciate the difference if you swap them fast.
> What i can say is that price of the ZS10 is obviously surprising, but i'm even more surprised when i read people who are happy with their ED16A OR ZSA which cost the same money as a mainstream t-shirt.
> This is actually unbelievable: years ago you should spend at least 100$ to get something like an ED16 or something like that, now with 21€ you can buy a TRN v80 (the one that i'm waiting for as it was shipped) that is well-reviewed everywhere and has got 4 drivers.. chinese technology is a real deal.
> ...



If I didn't have the ZSR, I would like the V80. The treble is too sibilant and distorted to me. ZSR has a treble dip. My HD800 are amped by Zana Deux SE. Its good. No complaints about sound. Ok, that's not true. They are a hassle to use and was extremely expensive to have setup. The sound is not exciting or impactful. They handle EQ poorly compared to multiple BA iems. Breaking a tube will cost me ten KZ earphones. I'd rather have 10 KZ earphones which is kind of what I'm doing now lol


----------



## athiker94

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12p...s-Earbuds-eartips-Dual-color/32775747645.html


Thanks so much. Is the 3.8mm an okay size to fit the KZ's? I thought they were 5mm?


----------



## nxnje

wind016 said:


> That's another issue with TOTL products as well. I like detail but I also don't want to hear all the imperfections in the music. Most of my music is downloaded MP3s from Amazon and iTubes now. I don't want to hear the clipping. That's why I quite like the ZSR as much as much as my better stuff. Very forward and impactful sound but theres an appreciated treble dip.
> 
> 
> 
> If I didn't have the ZSR, I would like the V80. The treble is too sibilant and distorted to me. ZSR has a treble dip. My HD800 are amped by Zana Deux SE. Its good. No complaints about sound. Ok, that's not true. They are a hassle to use and was extremely expensive to have setup. The sound is not exciting or impactful. They handle EQ poorly compared to multiple BA iems. Breaking a tube will cost me ten KZ earphones. I'd rather have 10 KZ earphones which is kind of what I'm doing now lol


I have to confirm: HD800 are not fun sounding.
I tried to apply some EQ but i admit i didn't find a pleasant equalization for my tastes.
The thing is used them many times in the studio, as i used them for headphone-mixing as a reference for monitor speakers in order to do perfect mixing balancing the outputs. In this way you have a good trade-off between the impact of the monitor speaker and the compensation in the detail of the headphone.
In this kind of sector, the HD800s are divine.
If i had to choose a headphone to be used in listening sessions, that wouldn't be my choice.
I would prefer another kind of headphone, I mean.


----------



## HungryPanda

3.8mm will be a bit tight, I use KZ starlines, Auvio and RHA tips on my KZ earpgones


----------



## pbui44

So I received my KZ ZSA yesterday to replace my ZS6 and I am overall happy.  Here are my impressions of the ZSA against the ZS6:

-The ZSA’s metal housing is substantially smaller than the ZS6’s metal housing, and the difference can definitely be felt when worn.  The ZSA is definitely for those with smaller ears.
-The ZSA cable is less microphonic than the ZS6 with less rubber and angled 2-pin connectors.  Yet, the splitter and 3.5mm connector is the same and the splitter now runs half-way, instead of 1/3-way from the 2-pin connectors.
-Of course, the rest of the packaging and accessory materials are almost identical with the ZSA manual and warranty information being of a revised print.  
-The ZSA’s soundstage is slightly smaller than the ZS6’s soundstage, which is surprising, as the driver count of the ZSA is half of the ZS6.
-The ZSA’s instrument separation is nearly as good as the ZS6, which is not as surprising, as there are identical vents.
-The ZSA’s bass has less impact than the ZS6, but the sub-bass has slightly more quality than the ZS6.  The impact was not surprising, but the sub-bass was surprising, as the ZSA’s dynamic driver has more layers than the ZS6’s dynamic drivers.  
-ZSA’s mids are more apparent than the ZS6’s mids with better extension, but in times of a silent background, the ZS6’s mid-quality is more noticeable than the ZSA’s mid-quality, because the second-dynamic-driver’s mids coming from the nano-tubes can be heard with a silent background.  This allows the ZS6 to be better for classical and acoustical genres, than the ZSA.
-ZSA’s treble is almost as sparkly as the ZS6 and has less sheen, making a less fatiguing sound presentation.  Less sheen decreases some airiness, but 80-95% of the sparkle is still there.  This allows the ZSA to sound better with vocals than the ZS6.
-With the above said, the ZSA has more of the Audio-Technica-house-sound-signature, whereas the ZS6 has more of the JVC-house-sound-signature.

Personally, I like the ZSA more than the ZS6 because of its less fatiguing sound and physically more comfortable metal housing. Compared to other IEMs, the ZSA is still V-shaped-sounding, but more slightly V-shaped, keeping the ZSA strong enough to battle other IEMs up to $150 in retail value.  So is the ZSA 10x its value?  Not necessarily, but I will say that you should definitely consider the ZSAs for budgets up to $100, so you can buy more stuff with your budget.


----------



## wind016

nxnje said:


> I have to confirm: HD800 are not fun sounding.
> I tried to apply some EQ but i admit i didn't find a pleasant equalization for my tastes.
> The thing is used them many times in the studio, as i used them for headphone-mixing as a reference for monitor speakers in order to do perfect mixing balancing the outputs. In this way you have a good trade-off between the impact of the monitor speaker and the compensation in the detail of the headphone.
> In this kind of sector, the HD800s are divine.
> ...



I agree. It sublime when I want to hear all the DETAILS! All the "air" around the instruments. But at $31 now, the ZS10 is doing some nutty stuff. What did we get 10 years ago from a Shure IEM at $100?


----------



## scottySK

nxnje said:


> Yo guyssss
> Could someone please tell me if there are very cheap foam tips (i pay like 60 cents for them to mount on my memt x5) that can fit TRN v80?
> 
> I saw it has 6mm nozzle like the ZSR.
> ...



I use these on my trn v80's

https://m.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Pairs-5...462048&hash=item1a28e1f8db:g:gKIAAOSw~AVYrAf5


----------



## nxnje

scottySK said:


> I use these on my trn v80's
> 
> https://m.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Pairs-5...462048&hash=item1a28e1f8db:g:gKIAAOSw~AVYrAf5



These are 5mm inner diameter. Do they really fit?
THe nozzle is 6mm and they say it stretches for ±0.5.. i'm really afraid they don't fit in.
Are u sure the ones are u wearing on them are these specific ones?


----------



## scottySK

nxnje said:


> These are 5mm inner diameter. Do they really fit?
> THe nozzle is 6mm and they say it stretches for ±0.5.. i'm really afraid they don't fit in.
> Are u sure the ones are u wearing on them are these specific ones?



They are the only foams I've ever bought.


----------



## scottySK




----------



## nxnje

scottySK said:


>


Did u apply some kind of force to make them securely fitted?
I mean, they needed some push to go in?
It's really strange as the nozzle is 6mm and the tips are 5mm ones 
Gonna try buying them if they fit your v80.


----------



## scottySK

nxnje said:


> Did u apply some kind of force to make them securely fitted?
> I mean, they needed some push to go in?
> It's really strange as the nozzle is 6mm and the tips are 5mm ones
> Gonna try buying them if they fit your v80.



Yeah its tight. They definitely don't fall off! Haha


----------



## carltonh

Wiljen said:


> I'm doubting any of them have much of anything below 30Hz let alone 20Hz.  That would be extremely good extension and from my listening the Zs10 rolls over very substantially below about 40Hz and the K3pro rolls off higher up than the Zs10.



I think this relates to shallow tips plus deep insertion blocks some of the ports, increasing bass. If you don't do that, then yeah, it might not be basshead capable. But I also have the Trinity Phantom Master 4 and the Sony XB90, which are professional basshead approved. I think the CH9T and ZS10 are both better basshead than those. Though, again, that is with the conditions I mentioned for ZS10 fit.

I just tested the ZS10 with my preferred tips and fit with the android Frequency Analyzer app, and with everything at a reasonable volume at every frequency, no loud peaks, (and no EQ), then it is still very clear down to 12 Hz that you feel it is certainly on and vibrating, a clear difference vs. when off. The ES3 can also get about this low though, when also with appropriate fit.


----------



## chi-fi mel

I received the ED12 today, actually due to an ordering error. Once I put foams on them they sounded pretty good. The one drawback is the quality of the mids, clearly inferior to the mids on the EDR1 and EDR2 which are also single dynamic drivers. Since those can be had for around 4 bucks I can't really recommend the ED12, but it's decent.


----------



## Wiljen (Sep 1, 2018)

carltonh said:


> I think this relates to shallow tips plus deep insertion blocks some of the ports, increasing bass. If you don't do that, then yeah, it might not be basshead capable. But I also have the Trinity Phantom Master 4 and the Sony XB90, which are professional basshead approved. I think the CH9T and ZS10 are both better basshead than those. Though, again, that is with the conditions I mentioned for ZS10 fit.
> 
> I just tested the ZS10 with my preferred tips and fit with the android Frequency Analyzer app, and with everything at a reasonable volume at every frequency, no loud peaks, (and no EQ), then it is still very clear down to 12 Hz that you feel it is certainly on and vibrating, a clear difference vs. when off. The ES3 can also get about this low though, when also with appropriate fit.



Saying that it is clearly on and vibratiing implies that some harmonic is causing vibration, it is not the same as saying you can hear it producing a 20Hz tone.  I think we are comparing apples and oranges as such.


----------



## antdroid (Sep 1, 2018)

Does that frequency analyzer app show distortion or waterfall csd? 12Hz would be mighty impressive for any headphone or high end subwoofer even. At 12Hz though you would only feel rumble as opposed to hearing it.

How are you measuring it? Most measuring mics aren't capable of below 20 Hz with any accuracy.


----------



## fedcas (Sep 1, 2018)

remember I was struggling to skim down my shopping list?

well... it ended up like this XD










in the end I even added the V80  cause it was at a very appealing price in the AK store and I found for a few dollars more in that shop (over 65 usd i think, and I was already very close as most KZs i bought in AK store) i would have had a 6 usd discount


----------



## Slater

fedcas said:


> remember I was struggling to skim down my shopping list?
> 
> well... it ended up like this XD
> 
> ...



Nice choices there buddy! You’ll be quite happy for the amount of money you spent


----------



## pbui44

fedcas said:


> remember I was struggling to skim down my shopping list?
> 
> well... it ended up like this XD
> 
> ...



Wow, mind posting what else you bought?  Deal seekers wanna know.


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


> Wow, mind posting what else you bought?  Deal seekers wanna know.



If you click the photo, he shows everything he bought. It’s like 25 things


----------



## ivo001

fedcas said:


> remember I was struggling to skim down my shopping list?
> 
> well... it ended up like this XD
> 
> ...




Nice one haha!
I never even thought about the fact that you can buy a usb type-c cable for detacheble headphones 
Got a Mi8 on the way, and thought I would just use my headphones with trn bluetooth aptx cable, or the supplied usb c to 3.5mm jack adapter.


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> Nice one haha!
> I never even thought about the fact that you can buy a usb type-c cable for detacheble headphones
> Got a Mi8 on the way, and thought I would just use my headphones with trn bluetooth aptx cable, or the supplied usb c to 3.5mm jack adapter.



The KZ type C cable is sweet. If they make a lightning version, it would be even more epic.

They also need to fire whatever hack had been designing their Bluetooth cables, and get someone competent in there. Their whole line of Bluetooth cables is all half-baked junk.


----------



## ivo001

Slater said:


> The KZ type C cable is sweet. If they make a lightning version, it would be even more epic.
> 
> They also need to fire whatever hack had been designing their Bluetooth cables, and get someone competent in there. Their whole line of Bluetooth cables is all half-baked junk.


Awesome, u mean this cable? 
I might get an MMCX cable too, to use with my iBasso IT01, like this one.


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> If you click the photo, he shows everything he bought. It’s like 25 things



Ah-thank-yah.

Wow, so all of that stuff added up to $117 shipped?  That kind-of-a-list calls for a weather-proof DAP and a trip to trekking around the Himalayan Mountains.


----------



## Slater

ivo001 said:


> Awesome, u mean this cable?
> I might get an MMCX cable too, to use with my iBasso IT01, like this one.



Yes, that one.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys i'm thinking of going with the AS10, currently with ZSR, first of all, is there any other pair of iem to consider for a similar price? Also feel free to give your thoughts on the AS10.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 1, 2018)

Did they finally put a notch in the canal of the star tips so it will stay put instead of sliding out easily out of the sound output nozzle?  Star tips are the best fitting and sounding tips to my ears and if they hadn't done this, they really should.


----------



## antdroid (Sep 2, 2018)

I was able to graph the Harman Target Response for IEMs this weekend using data Oratory1990 from reddit made available. Here's how the KZ IEMs I have on hand compare to what Harman believe our ideal signature is:

*KZ ZSA*



*KZ AS10*




Now on that note, the Harman target has changed a lot over the years. It used to have a more linear response in the low end and rise higher. Over the years with more testing and more non-technical listeners, they've made their target curves more U-shaped with elevated bass and more recessed mids while also lower treble a little bit. The IEM curve adds even more bass than the Target over/on-ear headphone curve.

Here's the Tin Audio T2 just for kicks. It followed the older response target from 2013 much more closely.



Disclaimer: Measurements were made with MiniDSP EARS which has some limitations and isn't industry standard.


----------



## randomnin (Sep 2, 2018)

[redacted]


----------



## randomnin (Sep 2, 2018)

antdroid said:


> I was able to graph the Harman Target Response for IEMs this weekend using data Oratory1990 from reddit made available. Here's how the KZ IEMs I have on hand compare to what Harman believe our ideal signature is:
> 
> *KZ ZSA*
> 
> ...


I've as well found Harman to sound best. Rtings.com seem to also use Harman for their compensated graphs. And Spectral Flatness test at audiocheck.net has a description of human ears having 1-3kHz sensitivity increase (the author has a PhD in field and is obviously obsessed with the topic, therefore I guess he's right), so that test also fits somewhat well with Harman graphs. Plus there's the fact that as the volume decreases, we perceive bass and treble decrease as more severe than the decreases of other frequencies (but also vice versa, increased volume yields more severe bass and treble increases), so having these frequencies bumped theoretically allows one to listen at lower volumes and still hear one's preferred signature. You can see how that looks for lots of headphones and IEMs at Reference Audio Analyzer - it's the second graph of every test report.

Since most graphs are raw (Audiobudget, ThePhonograph, crinacle's, Reference Audio Analyzer), I usually look for either graphs resembling Harman graphs (like that of Fiio F9 Pro), or ones with the least amount of sharp peaks and drops, so as to ensure that it's possible to fix the signature with as simple an equalizer as possible (Stuff like a 20dB drop at 4kHz, such as that of KZ ZSR, is a no-no, as far as I'm concerned. How is one to fix that on a smartphone player?).

Hence my opinion is that it's a good idea to make such graphs, thanks, antdroid.


----------



## Pruikki

DSebastiao said:


> Guys i'm thinking of going with the AS10, currently with ZSR, first of all, is there any other pair of iem to consider for a similar price? Also feel free to give your thoughts on the AS10.


YES PLEASE, I too want to know peoples opinion view on the matter, KZ ZSR vs AS10

now using ZSR (with Axon 7)  and thinking about AS10, could there be big "wow" jump like from ES3 to ZSR (es3 was quieter and less detailed) so ZSR was big jump in fun/quality/upgrade.

TLDR - ZSR VS AS10 anyone? opinions?


----------



## Pruikki

B9Scrambler said:


> I recommend the AS10 over the ZS10. Well balanced signature with awesome technical ability. Wrote a preview which you can check out here. Full review will be up some time next week.


Thank you! very good. Thumbs up. was helpful too. hats off,


----------



## Aparker2005

I like the AS10 over the zsr. Highs and bass seem more balanced to me, plus I like the fit if the AS10 more. My zsr are currently in the drawer with my AS10 and zs10 leading the pack.


----------



## SSandDigital

pbui44 said:


> Ah-thank-yah.
> 
> Wow, so all of that stuff added up to $117 shipped?  That kind-of-a-list calls for a weather-proof DAP and a trip to trekking around the Himalayan Mountains.



Yeah for that, I would have taken a chance on the Toneking T4 of BGVP DMG instead of all of those.


----------



## Slater

SSandDigital said:


> Yeah for that, I would have taken a chance on the Toneking T4 of BGVP DMG instead of all of those.



Different strokes for different folks.

Maybe he wanted to try out different signatures, or wanted 1 pair for work, 1 for home, 1 for the gym bag, etc.

Regardless, he still got some nice stuff on his list.


----------



## carltonh

Wiljen said:


> Saying that it is clearly on and vibratiing implies that some harmonic is causing vibration, it is not the same as saying you can hear it producing a 20Hz tone.  I think we are comparing apples and oranges as such.



Well, I'm still comparing to hundreds of earphones and headphones I've accumulated over the past decade+, and the quantity and quality of low end is at the least equal to anything else, for those who can get a good deep fit for the ZS10. And It is definitely a quality measure as well. You can tell in music that has deep subbass, even if nothing more than a well mic'ed bass drum that is intended to share that feeling lower than hearing.


----------



## Tobsen88

Is anyone listening to metal? I am on holiday and left my reference iem (ibasso it01) at home cause of sand and salt at the beach. Got my kz es4 and zs6 and trn v80 with me and I am listening to all three. I just found out that the es4 is a true metalhead. The mids are the most "fat" experience of the three while listening to amon amarth, system of a down or rammstein. Man these are awesome. Just wanted to let you know ..


----------



## Pruikki

Tobsen88 said:


> Is anyone listening to metal? I am on holiday and left my reference iem (ibasso it01) at home cause of sand and salt at the beach. Got my kz es4 and zs6 and trn v80 with me and I am listening to all three. I just found out that the es4 is a true metalhead. The mids are the most "fat" experience of the three while listening to amon amarth, system of a down or rammstein. Man these are awesome. Just wanted to let you know ..



O yes, Metal. Amon amarth.
now i will get ES4 just for that maybe  thanks. and will order AS10 for 42€ or so


----------



## Tobsen88 (Sep 3, 2018)

Sweet little combo... Shanling M0 and KZ ES4. Cable is taken from my V80's cause the KZ one is... You know what it is


----------



## randomnin

Tobsen88 said:


> Sweet little combo... Shanling M0 and KZ ES4. Cable is taken from my V80's cause the KZ one is... You know what it is


Thanks, using the V80's cable on ES4 is a good idea! Though I have nothing in particular against KZ cables (other than the split being too low, but V80's cable is the same on that). I just like the aesthetics better.


----------



## Slater (Sep 3, 2018)

randomnin said:


> Thanks, using the V80's cable on ES4 is a good idea! Though I have nothing in particular against KZ cables (other than the split being too low, but V80's cable is the same on that). I just like the aesthetics better.



For me it’s all about the memory wire. I love the soft formed rubber type that TRN (and others like BQEYZ and UiiSii) use.

I really wish KZ would switch to this type. Their metal memory wire is why a lot of people rip it out (which isn’t ideal either, because the cable has trouble staying in place).

KZ could also use a small piece of pre-formed titanium wire In place of their bendable wire. Titanium retains its memory like the TRN type.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> For me it’s all about the memory wire. I love the soft formed rubber type that TRN (and others like BQEYZ and UiiSii) use.
> 
> I really wish KZ would switch to this type. Their metal memory wire is why a lot of people rip it out (which isn’t ideal either, because the cable has trouble staying in place).


The metal wire fits me well, but it's much harder than the rubber so sleeping with earphones on might end up in having painful sores around ears. That I do not want.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> For me it’s all about the memory wire. I love the soft formed rubber type that TRN (and others like BQEYZ and UiiSii) use.
> 
> I really wish KZ would switch to this type. Their metal memory wire is why a lot of people rip it out (which isn’t ideal either, because the cable has trouble staying in place).
> 
> KZ could also use a small piece of pre-formed titanium wire In place of their bendable wire. Titanium retains its memory like the TRN type.


This is exactly why I switched to OKCSC's cables. They use a soft insulation instead of memory wire. Stays in place with much less work and I think the cable length is more ideal.


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> This is exactly why I switched to OKCSC's cables. They use a soft insulation instead of memory wire. Stays in place with much less work and I think the cable length is more ideal.



Yes, my OKCSC cable is very comfortable.  I cost more than some of my KZs though. I am using  it on my Hotfi HM9 (6BA per side)


----------



## neo_styles

Tobsen88 said:


> Is anyone listening to metal? I am on holiday and left my reference iem (ibasso it01) at home cause of sand and salt at the beach. Got my kz es4 and zs6 and trn v80 with me and I am listening to all three. I just found out that the es4 is a true metalhead. The mids are the most "fat" experience of the three while listening to amon amarth, system of a down or rammstein. Man these are awesome. Just wanted to let you know ..


Don't discount the ZS6 for metal. Different representation, but I find it's more energetic than the ES4, which helps for some of the more cleanly-produced stuff. Tool, Iced Earth, Dream Theater, and Otep all sound stunning with the ZS6.


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, my OKCSC cable is very comfortable.  I cost more than some of my KZs though. I am using  it on my Hotfi HM9 (6BA per side)


I think I've got the same exact cable (assuming that's the 7N copper model). Between that one and the more "standard" model with a mic, it's really hard to go back.



Spoiler


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> I think I've got the same exact cable (assuming that's the 7N copper model). Between that one and the more "standard" model with a mic, it's really hard to go back.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



This is mine.  I only buy cables with no mic and I choose the no mic option when there is one.  I don't need one.

This one is MMCX.  I just posted the photo to show how nice my OKCSC cable is

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OKC...stal-Plated-Copper-for-Shure/32830043484.html

Do you have a link to your two pin one?


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> This is mine.  I only buy cables with no mic and I choose the no mic option when there is one.  I don't need one.
> 
> This one is MMCX.  I just posted the photo to show how nice my OKCSC cable is
> 
> ...


I just keep the unit with a mic in case I get phone calls while on the road. First world problems, but I get tired of holding a handset to my ear after about a minute.

For the 7N 2-pin model:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32857...QVf&aff_short_key=VnYZvQVf&aff_platform=msite


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> I just keep the unit with a mic in case I get phone calls while on the road. First world problems, but I get tired of holding a handset to my ear after about a minute.



I have no desire to carry a phone   I use DAPs with my iems and buds...and some of my headphones.  So I really meant it when I said I have no need for a mic... or any kind of remote as I listen to whole albums.


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no desire to carry a phone   I use DAPs with my iems and buds...and some of my headphones.  So I really meant it when I said I have no need for a mic... or any kind of remote as I listen to whole albums.


Don't get me wrong; I do 90% of my listening on the A45 or M0 and I'm definitely an album listener, but it's nice to have the option.


----------



## tripside

neo_styles said:


> Don't get me wrong; I do 90% of my listening on the A45 or M0 and I'm definitely an album listener, but it's nice to have the option.



There was a time when I would listen to entire albums and would even find nuggets that often went under the radar. I used to read so many blogs and music sites to find new musi ...Now I just find all of that work and listen to playlists. After a long time I did listen to an entire album, Greta Van Fleet. I thoroughly enjoyed it!


----------



## neo_styles

tripside said:


> There was a time when I would listen to entire albums and would even find nuggets that often went under the radar. I used to read so many blogs and music sites to find new musi ...Now I just find all of that work and listen to playlists. After a long time I did listen to an entire album, Greta Van Fleet. I thoroughly enjoyed it!


Wait until you find out that some albums have hidden first tracks...This is why I have to re-rip my entire collection now.

Nothing wrong with playlists, either. It's nice to have the ability to sequence to your preferences, too. That's half the fun of playlisting; a modern-day mixtape.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 3, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Don't get me wrong; I do 90% of my listening on the A45 or M0 and I'm definitely an album listener, but it's nice to have the option.



For most people.  I am just weird.  I do not own a smartphone which probably surprises people if they see how much electronics I do have.  If I did have one I would not answer it anyway.  Why do we have to be available every second of the day?.  Getting way off topic now.

Speaking of options, I wish we could always choose between a straight or an angled plug.  I would always choose straight if I had the choice. My best DAPs have an OTG function which I do use to expand my music storage.  An angled plug gets in the way.


----------



## Tobsen88

Is there any recommendation for true heavy metal iem's? I think the ibasso it01 is quite there, maybe any other has a rec. Thinking about the dmg for quite a while now cause of the good rec of Hawaiian bad boy. Love his reviews...


----------



## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> Speaking of options, I wish we could always choose between a straight or an angled plug.  I would always choose straight if I had the choice. My best DAPs have an OTG function which I do use to expand my music storage.  An angled plug gets in the way.


I 100% agree with this; those slim 1/8" connections are a total boon. Seems like every right-angle plug gets in my way more than it helps.

And don't feel like you have to explain not having a smartphone; if I didn't need one for work, I probably wouldn't have one, either. Too much or a distraction


----------



## Slater (Sep 3, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Speaking of options, I wish we could always choose between a straight or an angled plug.  I would always choose straight if I had the choice.



I love the Sennheiser plug as used on some headphones (such as the Momentum). It is hinged, and can be made straight or 90 degrees (or any angle in between).

Here’s what it looks like in both configurations:



You can buy the adjustable Sennheiser end on Aliexpress by itself, so it can be adapted to any cable or IEM. Or, you can just buy and solder on whatever kind of ends you want (straight, 90, etc).


----------



## pbui44

Man, all of this cable talk reminded me that I still have not tried my ZSA with my Audeze iSine Cypher V1 cable!  On my ZS6, the Cypher cable just sounded too much like Beats, even with 150-hour-burn-in.  On my ZSA, the Cypher cable sounds absolutely brah-mazing!  Okay, back to my music, but thanks for reminding me, folks!


----------



## antdroid

randomnin said:


> I've as well found Harman to sound best. Rtings.com seem to also use Harman for their compensated graphs. And Spectral Flatness test at audiocheck.net has a description of human ears having 1-3kHz sensitivity increase (the author has a PhD in field and is obviously obsessed with the topic, therefore I guess he's right), so that test also fits somewhat well with Harman graphs. Plus there's the fact that as the volume decreases, we perceive bass and treble decrease as more severe than the decreases of other frequencies (but also vice versa, increased volume yields more severe bass and treble increases), so having these frequencies bumped theoretically allows one to listen at lower volumes and still hear one's preferred signature. You can see how that looks for lots of headphones and IEMs at Reference Audio Analyzer - it's the second graph of every test report.
> 
> Since most graphs are raw (Audiobudget, ThePhonograph, crinacle's, Reference Audio Analyzer), I usually look for either graphs resembling Harman graphs (like that of Fiio F9 Pro), or ones with the least amount of sharp peaks and drops, so as to ensure that it's possible to fix the signature with as simple an equalizer as possible (Stuff like a 20dB drop at 4kHz, such as that of KZ ZSR, is a no-no, as far as I'm concerned. How is one to fix that on a smartphone player?).
> 
> Hence my opinion is that it's a good idea to make such graphs, thanks, antdroid.



Thanks for the feedback. If I continue to write any future reviews, I'll probably start putting this type of comparison graph in. I think it does help. For me personally, I prefer something in-between the two target curves, and have made my own target curve in-between both of them that I am still continuing to work on based on listening to several different headphones and messing with EQ. It's interesting that KZ newer IEMs actually fall close in-line with harman target in my measurements. I can't say I prefer it over the T2 though, which is closer to the old standard. 

On a diff topic - still hoping to hear more about the BA10 when that comes out and what sound that'll produce. It seems like KZ is actually improving over-time to me, as a new company should over-time.


----------



## antdroid

pbui44 said:


> Man, all of this cable talk reminded me that I still have not tried my ZSA with my Audeze iSine Cypher V1 cable!  On my ZS6, the Cypher cable just sounded too much like Beats, even with 150-hour-burn-in.  On my ZSA, the Cypher cable sounds absolutely brah-mazing!  Okay, back to my music, but thanks for reminding me, folks!



Have you played with EQ settings with Cipher Apple app + KZ iems? that's a pretty slick way to get EQ on iOS devices. 

All this talk of cables -- I actually prefer no memory wire at all, even for over-ear style. I like using soft-braided cables and just wear them over-ears without the memory wires. It makes it easier to adjust, if needed, and roll-up and store away for me.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> I love the Sennheiser plug as used on some headphones (such as the Momentum). It is hinged, and can be made straight or 90 degrees (or any angle in between).
> 
> Here’s what it looks like in both configurations:
> 
> ...


I never completely understood the point of angled plug.  Is it for stability of the jack itself so that it doesn't bend with force if something were to hit it or the device dropped on the plug?

I didn't understand what the benefits were as I preferred the straight one for the reason of it fitting it my pocket better.  When I started using angled plugs, it felt awkward with the cable not facing up when putting it in my pocket.   And then finally I banged a straight connector plug, which got bent, and realized the possible reason for angled plugs. LOL.  This happened once over a couple decades, but it may happen more to somebody or another (it's all about how you handle stuff and chance).


----------



## pbui44

antdroid said:


> Have you played with EQ settings with Cipher Apple app + KZ iems? that's a pretty slick way to get EQ on iOS devices.



I just used it and it does sound even better, just wish the EQ was more than 10 bands.  Oh well, I will check graphs later.  I think the BA driver in the ZSA is mid-high, as vocals still shine with or without EQ.


----------



## Slater

SilverEars said:


> I never completely understood the point of angled plug.  Is it for stability of the jack itself so that it doesn't bend with force if something were to hit it or the device dropped on the plug?
> 
> I didn't understand what the benefits were as I preferred the straight one for the reason of it fitting it my pocket better.  When I started using angled plugs, it felt awkward with the cable not facing up when putting it in my pocket.   And then finally I banged a straight connector plug, which got bent, and realized the possible reason for angled plugs. LOL.  This happened once over a couple decades, but it may happen more to somebody or another (it's all about how you handle stuff and chance).



It’s great when using with a laptop for example. Makes the cable much more compact where it comes out of the jack.

It depends a lot on the device. On some devices straight plugs get in the way and an angled ones work better. And other devices it’s the other way around.


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> Have you played with EQ settings with Cipher Apple app + KZ iems? that's a pretty slick way to get EQ on iOS devices.
> 
> All this talk of cables -- I actually prefer no memory wire at all, even for over-ear style. I like using soft-braided cables and just wear them over-ears without the memory wires. It makes it easier to adjust, if needed, and roll-up and store away for me.



Hmmm, I searched for that Cipher app and can’t find it in the Apple app store.


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> Hmmm, I searched for that Cipher app and can’t find it in the Apple app store.



App for V1:

https://www.google.com/search?clien...hVo8IMKHeRtDt0Q7xYIICgA&biw=667&bih=325&dpr=2

App for V2:

https://www.google.com/search?clien...0-p_dAhUM04MKHWmDAPwQ7xYIICgA&biw=667&bih=325


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


> App for V1:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?clien...hVo8IMKHeRtDt0Q7xYIICgA&biw=667&bih=325&dpr=2
> 
> ...



Thanks. 

So it requires the Cipher cable too? Because the app description says the app works in conjunction with the  DAC chip built into the Cipher cable.

Since I have no Cipher cable, the app doesn’t sound like it will work for me.


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So it requires the Cipher cable too? Because the app description says the app works in conjunction with the  DAC chip built into the Cipher cable.
> 
> Since I have no Cipher cable, the app doesn’t sound like it will work for me.



You do need a Audeze Cipher cable to use the Audeze Cipher app, but I also sent you a PM.


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> For most people.  I am just weird.  I do not own a smartphone which probably surprises people if they see how much electronics I do have.  If I did have one I would not answer it anyway.  Why do we have to be available every second of the day?.  Getting way off topic now.
> 
> Speaking of options, I wish we could always choose between a straight or an angled plug.  I would always choose straight if I had the choice. My best DAPs have an OTG function which I do use to expand my music storage.  An angled plug gets in the way.


Some jobs expect individuals to be qvaiavail, on call, as needed. That's the world we live in today and as an individual in the prime of my working life, I have to stay competitive. I still don't buy cables with mics. RegrdRega the plug, I think it depends on the application. I used to be big on angled plugs howener, my current DAC (portable) is 3.5mm balanced and my 2.5 to 3.5 balanced adapter is right angle, so I get straight plug 2.5mm cables to still eventually wnd in a right angle termination


----------



## vegetaleb

Is it normal that the ZSR don't hold well on the ZS3 stock cable? they unplug too easily


----------



## phthora

vegetaleb said:


> Is it normal that the ZSR don't hold well on the ZS3 stock cable? they unplug too easily



It's normal that KZ build tolerances are not very tight. For their price range, that's hardly unexpected. My Brainwavz B400s had the same issue. There will be some unit-to-unit variation in the sockets and in the cables at this level. If it's a real concern, you can see what sort of warranty KZ has.


----------



## Wiljen

vegetaleb said:


> Is it normal that the ZSR don't hold well on the ZS3 stock cable? they unplug too easily



Not in my experience.  You do have to watch as cables are available in both .75 and .78 millimeter pin sizes and once you use a .78, you will have to from then on as the .75s will fall off like you are describing.


----------



## neo_styles

More fuel for Anglegate 2018. This works really well for keeping my DAP in my back pocket.



Spoiler


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Is it normal that the ZSR don't hold well on the ZS3 stock cable? they unplug too easily



You can make it fit tighter by gently splaying the pins of the 2-pin connector.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2202#post-14281758

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2204#post-14283695


----------



## DocHoliday (Sep 4, 2018)

neo_styles said:


> Don't discount the ZS6 for metal. Different representation, but I find it's more energetic than the ES4, which helps for some of the more cleanly-produced stuff. Tool, Iced Earth, Dream Theater, and Otep all sound stunning with the ZS6.



The ZS6 is a top notch metal IEM. 
It's all good all of the time.




Spoiler


----------



## Tobsen88

Is there any other iem that can keep up to metal? Anybody has the dmg to compare?


----------



## neo_styles

Tobsen88 said:


> Is there any other iem that can keep up to metal? Anybody has the dmg to compare?


Probably doesn't qualify as an IEM in the technical sense, but my iSine 10 is INSANE for metal. It's just something about the way that midrange shines that seems to make even crap-recorded metal sound great. Only hard part is figuring out how to get a solid seal to bring out the meaty low-end.

I understand if it's completely out of your price range, but I think you can find a pair for around $200 with some patience. r/AVExchange is a great resource for that.


----------



## antdroid

neo_styles said:


> Probably doesn't qualify as an IEM in the technical sense, but my iSine 10 is INSANE for metal. It's just something about the way that midrange shines that seems to make even crap-recorded metal sound great. Only hard part is figuring out how to get a solid seal to bring out the meaty low-end.
> 
> I understand if it's completely out of your price range, but I think you can find a pair for around $200 with some patience. r/AVExchange is a great resource for that.



I second iSine as a highly recommended!


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Sep 4, 2018)

I guess I am not supposed to name the company that makes them but imo the "6 in 1" is dope AF for metal.  W shape with fast tight slightly elevated low end. Clear articulate mids that are forward sounding,  and a clean crisp high end that gets really close to shhhplashhhy ,  but never gets there.  At least to my 42 year old punk rock ears.  While the iem is warm tones,  the only gripe I have is that male vocals can sound thin.  Oddly enough though I can actually understand cookie monster vocals clearly with these iems. Opeth, Carcass, Emporer, Dimmu all sound great.  No muddy muddy to my ears.

I also like TRN V20 for metal too. Still waiting on my ZSA. Should be today or tomorrow.


----------



## RvTrav

Yesterday I received the ZS4 and this was almost 2 years since I received the ZS3.  When I ordered the ZS4 there was no indication whether KZ would try to maintain the ZS3 sound signature for the ZS4 or change it completely. The shells of these two earphones are almost identical except that KZ added a lip on the nozzle of the ZS4.   When I compared the sound of the ZS3 to that of the ZS4 what I heard was two very similarly tuned earphones.  The big punchy bass was maintained, the detail in the mids and treble was also still evident and the treble seemed equally extended in the two.  The ZS4 seemed to go deeper into the bass and the treble seemed to be slightly more forward.  The ZS4 like the ZS3 was sibilance free.  I'm sure others here with better ears than mine will find more difference between these earphones.  To me KZ kept all that was good with the ZS3 and added some bass extension and elevated the treble a little bit.  I like the ZS4 however I personally would have liked a little more emphasis in the treble as I think this would have added a little more difference between the ZS4 and ZS3.


----------



## HungryPanda

I really like the ZS4, it is great for progressive rock and metal


----------



## Slater

RvTrav said:


> Yesterday I received the ZS4 and this was almost 2 years since I received the ZS3.  When I ordered the ZS4 there was no indication whether KZ would try to maintain the ZS3 sound signature for the ZS4 or change it completely. The shells of these two earphones are almost identical except that KZ added a lip on the nozzle of the ZS4.   When I compared the sound of the ZS3 to that of the ZS4 what I heard was two very similarly tuned earphones.  The big punchy bass was maintained, the detail in the mids and treble was also still evident and the treble seemed equally extended in the two.  The ZS4 seemed to go deeper into the bass and the treble seemed to be slightly more forward.  The ZS4 like the ZS3 was sibilance free.  I'm sure others here with better ears than mine will find more difference between these earphones.  To me KZ kept all that was good with the ZS3 and added some bass extension and elevated the treble a little bit.  I like the ZS4 however I personally would have liked a little more emphasis in the treble as I think this would have added a little more difference between the ZS4 and ZS3.



Is there any bloated bass? What about bleed into the midrange?


----------



## Makahl

AS10 x ZS4s FR

At least KZ's channel matching is really good for this such price. 



> KZ AS10
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Source: https://twitter.com/nyanchu202


----------



## RvTrav

Slater said:


> Is there any bloated bass? What about bleed into the midrange?



No the bass on the ZS4 is fairly well controlled and doesn't bleed into the midrange.  I find it less bloated that ZSR or ES4.


----------



## tripside

HungryPanda said:


> I really like the ZS4, it is great for progressive rock and metal



Have they improved the cable and memory wire on these ? Ed16 came with really bad cables. 

Do you think the mid range is in any way recessed ?


----------



## C2thew

As long as they maintained the same physical profile of the ZS3's in terms of fit, then everything else is just a bonus.  The more forward treble is what I was desiring to have from the ZS3.   The ZS4 will be my next set of running iems or possibly work iems (but i need to hear things at work so the ZS4's might be too good for what I need it to do.)  Until then ZS10's and ZS3's for now.  I can't wait to receive my zs4's!


----------



## HungryPanda

tripside said:


> Have they improved the cable and memory wire on these ? Ed16 came with really bad cables.
> 
> Do you think the mid range is in any way recessed ?


the mids are not recessed at all, these really sound great. The cable is much improved


----------



## tripside

HungryPanda said:


> the mids are not recessed at all, these really sound great. The cable is much improved



Good to know! Can’t wait to receive my pair.


----------



## CoiL (Sep 5, 2018)

Ok, if panda is saying good about mids and match for prog rock... I guess I need to order ZS4 -.-



Tobsen88 said:


> Is there any other iem that can keep up to metal? Anybody has the dmg to compare?


iBasso IT01 (even without mods) is good quality option for 100$ imo.


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> Ok, if panda is saying good about mids and match for prog rock... I guess I need to order ZS4 -.-



..always listen to the Panda.  I do.. .sometimes.. lol.


----------



## CoiL

...and I really like red ZS4 looks and fit of ZS3 shell.


----------



## HungryPanda

I find the zs4 fits really well. I have to go down a size on the tips as the nozzles go deep


----------



## Slater

So my new TRN cases arrived. All I have to say is wow these are my favorite cases for large IEMs. They were $0.91 each from Gearbest. Worth every penny!!

Here's a comparison of most of the cases we commonly use (I have many others, but these are the ones most of us have), and the OD dimensions. I did NOT measure the ID, so the measurement do NOT take into account foam liners and the thickness of the plastic/foam etc. The measurements are just a guideline only.

The top row, from left to right:

1. The large rectangular KZ black plastic snap enclosure case (120mm L x 70mm W x 35mm thick). AVERAGE price ~$1.50-$2 each.
2. The new TRN oval fabric style zippered case (110mm L x 70mm W x 40mm thick). AVERAGE price ~$1-$2 each.
3. The larger KZ square fabric style zippered case (80mm L x 65mm W x 25-35mm thick ie it bows larger in the center and tapers out thinner at the ends). AVERAGE price ~$1-$1.50 each.

The bottom row, from left to right:

4. Generic round EPS foam zippered case (70mm Diameter x 25mm thick). AVERAGE price ~$1 each.
5. KZ translucent ABS "Pelican-style" plastic snap enclosure case (80mm L x 50mm W x 35mm thick). AVERAGE price ~$5 each.
6. Smaller KZ "carbon fiber style" square zippered case (65mm L x 65mm W x 25mm thick). AVERAGE price ~$1 each.

 

Here's a comparison of the side views.

From left to right - KZ black plastic case, TRN oval case, KZ large square case.
 

From left to right - generic round case, KZ ABS case, KZ small carbon fiber style case.
 


As a test, I used a "ZS6 style" metal IEM, with KZ braided cable and memory wires formed to my ears and intact. I use this as a test because this is a large bodied setup, and when I put them in a case I don't want to disturb the memory wires. So the case MUST be roomy, and must allow both adequate thickness for the IEM bodies not to touch and scratch one another, but for the cable to have plenty of room. The KZ braided cable is the bulkiest cable I own, so any case that fits this overall setup will fit anything you throw at it!

The cases ranked by overall roomiest to least roomiest:
1. KZ black plastic snap case. Plenty roomy enough for large IEMs and bulky cables.
2. TRN oval zippered case (pretty much a tie with the KZ black case). Plenty roomy enough for large IEMs and bulky cables.
3. KZ large square fabric zippered case (roomy enough for large IEMs and bulky cables, as long as you are careful about winding up your cable)

The following cases did NOT fit my test setup, but I will still rank them for use with smaller IEMs because they will work perfectly fine with them (such as Tin Audio T2, KZ EDR1, etc). Again, ranked from overall roomiest to least roomiest:

4. Generic round zippered case. Not a bad case. I wouldn't recommend it with any memory wire IEM, but it provides just enough room for medium and small bodied IEMs with no memory wire.
5. KZ small square carbon fiber style zippered case. Very small and thin, with minimal room inside. Only the smallest IEMs will fit, and even then will require careful winding of the cable.
6. KZ ABS case. While this is the most "tough" and crush proof, it is comically small inside. Only the smallest IEMs will fit, and even then will require careful winding of the cable.

In my opinion the overall winner is the TRN oval case. It is 90% as roomy as the KZ black plastic case, is cheaper, and is more useful overall. The TRN case has the mesh net on 1 side, which is plenty of room for a 2nd set of IEMs, or a spare cable, loads of tips, etc. The mesh netting also helps to hold and stabilize the IEM inside when the case is closed.

The KZ black plastic case is bulky, the latches are flimsy and can be finicky, and while it's a roomy case and foam lined, the contents just bounce around (and scratch one another). The KZ black plastic case IS nice, however, because it has the foam lining. This lining can easily have very small pieces trimmed off and used for mods (BA and nozzle mods), while still allowing use of the case. I think everyone should own at least 1 if not for this purpose alone. It will also store the largest of the large IEMs. It can even be used for other purposes, such as storing items like smaller phones, phone battery packs, cables, etc. 

If you want to see what my test IEM setup looked like inside each case, here you go:



Spoiler: Inside views with test IEM



KZ black plastic case
 

TRN oval zippered case
 

KZ large square zippered case
 

Generic round zippered case (doesn't really fit)
 

KZ small square carbon fiber zippered case (nowhere near fitting)
 

KZ ABS clear case (nowhere near fitting)


----------



## pbui44

So I just finished listening to my ZSA with Cypher Lightning V1 cable and have to thank @antdroid for reminding me about the EQ apps.  Luckily, the V1 app was redone to have presets, like the V2 app, so I had the first preset with 500hz and 1khz at 0db and the other bands going down by 1db step to make a dome shape and invert the slight v-shape of the ZSA stock sound.  That sounded even better, but I also remembered the EQ measurement list thread @crinacle created.  

There was no ZSA listing, so I saved the ZS6 EQ measurement and kept the same first preset settings up to 1khz, then set 2khz at -1db, 4khz at 0db, 8khz at -3db, and 16khz at -4db for the 2nd present.  This preset resulted in a sound that was close to the SE846 stock sound with neutral tuning nozzles, making me feel shocked that what I paid for $75 total could sound close to $1k in sound.  

Also, Shure and Westone have their own Lightning cable’s that can be purchased seperately.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Don't know how you people like them starlines so much. They are so hard and uncomfortable for me. 

Also, how come of all the things China copies, they cant figure out a cost effective solution to JVC spiral dots? Them things are so comfy and sound so good on just about everything I have ever put them on. Currently on my ES4's, ZS10 and FXT200's. Its just insane that they are $15-$20 a pack.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Don't know how you people like them starlines so much. They are so hard and uncomfortable for me.
> 
> Also, how come of all the things China copies, they cant figure out a cost effective solution to JVC spiral dots? Them things are so comfy and sound so good on just about everything I have ever put them on. Currently on my ES4's, ZS10 and FXT200's. Its just insane that they are $15-$20 a pack.



Auvios are the closest you’re going to get to the Spiral Dots.

I wish they cloned them though. Too expensive!!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Auvios are the closest you’re going to get to the Spiral Dots.
> 
> I wish they cloned them though. Too expensive!!



Cool. I actually ordered 3 packages of Auvios from RS last week. Never used em before but thought Id try em for as cheap as they are right now.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Cool. I actually ordered 3 packages of Auvios from RS last week. Never used em before but thought Id try em for as cheap as they are right now.



Yeah, like them a lot. Not a perfect replacement for Spiral Dots, but the next closest thing for a fraction of the cost.

One of the major advantages of spiral Dots (other than the Dots) is the granularity of the sizes. No other tips that I know of have the wide range of tip sizes available - usually it’s SML (and even that varies between tips ie one company’s M is another company’s L).


----------



## vegetaleb

RvTrav said:


> No the bass on the ZS4 is fairly well controlled and doesn't bleed into the midrange.  I find it less bloated that ZSR or ES4.



How's the SQ compared to ZS3?
Also are  the memory wires as good as the ones on stock ZS3 or as bad as ZSR?


----------



## mikp

ha..
Today I got my third kz aptx bluetooth. This one actually works after a quick test. Controller is on the right and channels are correct. Range is also ok and not that "amp" sound on the others.

So to sum up:
1. controller on the right and wrong channels. Amped sound and disconnets after 2 meters.
2. Controller on the left, correct channels according to markings. Amped sound and 2 meter range
3. controller on the right, correct channels. no amped sound and ok range.


----------



## Slater

mikp said:


> ha..
> Today I got my third kz aptx bluetooth. This one actually works after a quick test. Controller is on the right and channels are correct. Range is also ok and not that "amp" sound on the others.
> 
> So to sum up:
> ...



So, 1 out of 3 —> basically KZ QC strikes again?


----------



## Vestat

neo_styles said:


> Don't discount the ZS6 for metal. Different representation, but I find it's more energetic than the ES4, which helps for some of the more cleanly-produced stuff. Tool, Iced Earth, Dream Theater, and Otep all sound stunning with the ZS6.


Definitely agree, ZS6 has a lot of sparkle for the high frequencies of drums and cymbals while giving a lot of energy on the bass ones if properly EQed.
The only downside is that the eq setting is not always universal for every song or every metal style. I find myself often adjusting the settings depending on the track or the band..

BTW, I know that this is probably something obsolete for most of you, I found the pleasure of understanding HI-Res Audio files, Properly playing them and Enjoying them. So bad I spent half of my life looking for 320kbps Mp3 considering them as the most quality wise choice... Just realized how Uncompressed HI-Res FLAC are making my emotions shine again if properly played...

And I have to admit that, a 4 driver unit like the ZS6 is definitely improving with such audio files... Soundstage is doubled IMHO..


----------



## C2thew

So i've had two KZ old stock rubber cables fail on me.  Both of them are the older sticky rubber cables that came with the ZS3 and the ZS6.  To be fair, they were used under abusive situations: i.e. running while attached to my phone.  My phone was dropped and saved my the cable a few times so again user error is definitely at play here.

My concern though is that the connection failures occurred at the same location:right where the cable has the rubber bend area by the 3.5mm connector.  the sound continues to cut in and out of the left ear only.  this happens on both cables that I have and only on the left side.  Switching the R and L channels just confirms that the left channel is dead.

sucks that these cables cost $3-4 per with a month lead time. To be fair though i've had a cable fail on my UE triple fi 10's with the same issue.

just wanted to document this.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> sucks that these cables cost $3-4 per with a month lead time. To be fair though i've had a cable fail on my UE triple fi 10's with the same issue.



The wire is quality copper wire. When the 3.5mm ends fail, I just cut off the bad part and solder on a new 3.5mm plug. You can get really nice ones from Aliexpress for roughly $1 each. I buy them 10 at a time, so then I have them on hand when I need them. No need to wait a month - I just attach a new end and 10 minutes later I'm back up and running!


----------



## crabdog

Adding my 2c regarding the ZS4. I agree with what others are saying. Nice punchy bass, very clear mids. Treble is a bit bright but not sibilant at all. Comfort is crazy good and this is the best cable I've seen from KZ yet.


----------



## stryed

crabdog said:


> Adding my 2c regarding the ZS4. I agree with what others are saying. Nice punchy bass, very clear mids. Treble is a bit bright but not sibilant at all. Comfort is crazy good and this is the best cable I've seen from KZ yet.



I still have my ZS3 but their sound is a bloated bassy mess even with the slater mod that is highly recommended. However, comfort wise they were amazing but had this suction feeling after a while - that's how perfect the seal is.

How would you compare the ZS4 to the ZS5/6 AS10 and other recent KZs?


----------



## crabdog

stryed said:


> I still have my ZS3 but their sound is a bloated bassy mess even with the slater mod that is highly recommended. However, comfort wise they were amazing but had this suction feeling after a while - that's how perfect the seal is.
> 
> How would you compare the ZS4 to the ZS5/6 AS10 and other recent KZs?


I haven't heard the 5 or 6. Since I have spent very little time with the zs4 I can't say too much about the sound yet. It is brighter than the AS10 and has a bigger, punchier bass. I need more time with it before I can elaborate.


----------



## Wiljen

C2thew said:


> So i've had two KZ old stock rubber cables fail on me.



Does that mean you have two half Kz children?


----------



## harry501501

BadReligionPunk said:


> Don't know how you people like them starlines so much. They are so hard and uncomfortable for me.
> 
> Also, how come of all the things China copies, they cant figure out a cost effective solution to JVC spiral dots? Them things are so comfy and sound so good on just about everything I have ever put them on. Currently on my ES4's, ZS10 and FXT200's. Its just insane that they are $15-$20 a pack.



Agreed, starlings are horrible tips. It's like putting a tyre in your ear


----------



## HungryPanda

I use KZ starlines, RHA, Auvio, MandarinES and generic silicone tips all depending on the iem


----------



## phthora

BadReligionPunk said:


> Don't know how you people like them starlines so much. They are so hard and uncomfortable for me.
> 
> Also, how come of all the things China copies, they cant figure out a cost effective solution to JVC spiral dots? Them things are so comfy and sound so good on just about everything I have ever put them on. Currently on my ES4's, ZS10 and FXT200's. Its just insane that they are $15-$20 a pack.



Price is one thing, obviously people are still buying them, but you would think that JVC would notice how successful their product is and start making them widely available in the US. Crazy that such a popular and broadly loved eartip has to be gray-market ordered from Japan. I'll gladly still pay $20 or $25 bucks a box, but I hate also waiting two weeks to get them. 

And, yeah, KZ Starlines suck. It's usually only out of desperation for fit that I pull those off the bench. KZ Turbos are worse though. They make everything sound awful.


----------



## phthora

*Sigh* As of this moment, Amazon doesn't even have any Large or Medium-Large Dots for sale. Come on, JVC! You are losing money.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

phthora said:


> Price is one thing, obviously people are still buying them, but you would think that JVC would notice how successful their product is and start making them widely available in the US. Crazy that such a popular and broadly loved eartip has to be gray-market ordered from Japan. I'll gladly still pay $20 or $25 bucks a box, but I hate also waiting two weeks to get them.
> 
> And, yeah, KZ Starlines suck. It's usually only out of desperation for fit that I pull those off the bench. KZ Turbos are worse though. They make everything sound awful.



Yea Im not a huge fan of the whirlwinds/turbos either. I find them also hard and uncomfortable. I do really effing love the red tube KZ tips that came on the ZS3. Don't know what they are called but Audio Technica has some like that. Seems to clean up bass bloat for me. 

Anyway My best friend is coming into town soon from Japan so I am going to fire off a line here asking for 2 packs of spiral dots and 2 packs of Sony hybrids. They currently run $8 each(JVC) and $4(Sony) on Amazon Japan. 

Still though. Too expensive here for sure.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 7, 2018)

harry501501 said:


> Agreed, starlings are horrible tips. It's like putting a tyre in your ear



Wow.. the Starlines are my favorite for many of my iems.  If those don't work I try Auvios and finally if I really have to I use Spinfits (they are kind of expensive).

I use Whirlwinds on the ones that have a thicker nozzle and a larger opening.

I always try the stock ones first with any iem .  If that works then I save myself a lot of tip rolling... which gives me sore ears for a day or two from taking them in and out too  much.


----------



## phthora

Do you mean the Sony Noise Isolation eartips? The ones with the foam, right? Like these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-EP-EX...ips-Black-Size-S-New-from-Japan/223111588261?

The Hybrids have no foam, like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Earbuds-Eartips-Earphone-Headsets/dp/B00D0EXM0S

Not trying to be pedantic, but it would suck to order the wrong thing. I've done it myself. 

There are also some identical knockoff foam-filled ones from Penon:
https://penonaudio.com/accessories/for-earphone/eartips/foam-silicone-eartipssml.html

But, you should buy a caseload and set up you're own eBay store if you can get the real deal for those prices.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I do really effing love the red tube KZ tips that came on the ZS3. Don't know what they are called but Audio Technica has some like that. Seems to clean up bass bloat for me.



Those red core tips used to be used on literally every older KZ! I have a huge bag of them.

I think they were all 1 size if I remember correctly (medium).

I don’t remember them being particularly special, but it sounds like I need to give them another try.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yea the hybrids. Been on those things for a long time now. Originally before I knew tips even did anything sound wise I was using the hybrids just because of how soft and comfortable they were. 

Here the link on the spiral dots. https://www.amazon.co.jp/EP-FX9M-B-...qid=1536362836&sr=8-1&keywords=jvc+spiral+dot

Sony Hybrids. 
https://www.amazon.co.jp/ソニー-SONY-ハ...qid=1536362836&sr=8-5&keywords=jvc+spiral+dot
Say EP-EX11M which is without foam. Pictures in user reviews. 

Never tried the foamy ones. Maybe should get a pack of those too.?


----------



## Wiljen (Sep 7, 2018)

My thought on the ZsA and one of the Ruizu players went up today on my blog.

http://audiofool.reviews/2018/09/07/kz-zsa-the-zs6-has-a-little-brother/

and also here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsa.23180/reviews#review-20853


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Those red core tips used to be used on literally every older KZ! I have a huge bag of them.
> 
> I think they were all 1 size if I remember correctly (medium).
> 
> I don’t remember them being particularly special, but it sounds like I need to give them another try.



They probably suck, but I like em. LOL 

Like those weirdos that like starlines.


----------



## phthora

BadReligionPunk said:


> Never tried the foamy ones. Maybe should get a pack of those too.?



YES! They go for like $30 a _pair _on eBay. Buy them to resell, if nothing else. You could fund a nice headphone purchase.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

phthora said:


> YES! They go for like $30 a _pair _on eBay. Buy them to resell, if nothing else. You could fund a nice headphone purchase.


Yea and apparently on Amazon Japan too. Like $42 yikes. 

Nevermind.


----------



## phthora

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea and apparently on Amazon Japan too. Like $42 yikes.
> 
> Nevermind.



Damn... I would have been your first customer. lol


----------



## crabdog

So, day 2 with the ZS4 and I am amazed by the quality of this IEM. I think it might be my new favourite sub $20 earphone.


----------



## HungryPanda

crabdog said:


> So, day 2 with the ZS4 and I am amazed by the quality of this IEM. I think it might be my new favourite sub $20 earphone.


 I agree it is my new commuting earphone


----------



## Surrealsky

How does the zs4 compared vs the as10? I do have the zs6 and prefer the as10.


----------



## khighly (Sep 8, 2018)

Just grabbed the AS10 after having some trouble with my hearing in one ear after an incident. Back to normal with approval from my audiologist 

I'll leave an initial review when I get them Monday, compared with my other IEM's. I will expand on it throughout the week.

Edit: Bought the ZS10 as well, why not?  Both arrive Monday.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Just grabbed the AS10 after having some trouble with my hearing in one ear after an incident. Back to normal with approval from my audiologist
> 
> I'll leave an initial review when I get them Monday, compared with my other IEM's. I will expand on it throughout the week.



Hope you recover OK. Sending positive vibes your way!


----------



## khighly (Sep 8, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Ehm, i tried the KZ ZS10 from a friend, just for like 10 mins. I know it's not enough to judge a pair of headphones but with A&K AK240 + KZ ZS10 i didn't feel they were close to hd800s..
> HD800 are one of the best headphones i've ever tried and analitically i think the best i've used in the studio..
> I doubt (as i remember like that) that zs10 could be near the hd800..



I don't think 10 minutes is enough time to provide a valuable opinion on any IEM's.



Slater said:


> You, sir, win a cookie
> 
> To reiterate your point, I'd love to know who comes up with these wild claims?! The direct comparisons with HD800, Campfire Andromeda, etc are comical.
> 
> KZs are a low budget entry-level ChiFi stepping stone IEM, that offers a surprising amount of bang for the buck. They're good for low budgets and/or beginners on their audiophile journey to better gear. They are not a substitute for better or TOTL gear, nor does KZ market them that way.



My ZST's sound miles better than my iBasso IT03's. I can't even use my IT03's anymore, they just aren't very good. I feel ripped off, and I bet if I got the chance to try any Campfire Audio's, I'd be extremely let down as well. I think there's a "price makes it sound better" idea among audiophiles, and from what I've tried and owned in the past, it's simply not true that more expensive equipment automatically sounds better.

** I'm searching, but does anyone have a ZS10 v AS10 review? I might be curious in the ZS10 as well (I did find the two posts Slater linked to in an earlier post).


----------



## nxnje

khighly said:


> I don't think 10 minutes is enough time to provide a valuable opinion on any IEM's



I don't think a 40 euros IEM like the ZS10 can compete with the HD800s and 
That was my impression and i wrote it.
As i used to be a hard HD800s listener and as i've used the ZS10 even for a small time, i can say there can't be a comparison.
ZS10 are technically monsters, i admit it, but HD800s are on another level and it's obvious they aren't comparable


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like on the official KZ store on Aliexpress they have released a release date for the KZ BA 10 which is 2018.10.9 and a new wired KZ-BTE earphone and it looks like the cables are not detachable but I may be wrong and is allegedly released 2018.9.15 and states it's a hybrid, 8 hours battery life and supports AptX.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> Looks like on the official KZ store on Aliexpress they have released a release date for the KZ BA 10 which is 2018.10.9 and a new wired KZ-BTE earphone and it looks like the cables are not detachable but I may be wrong and is allegedly released 2018.9.15 and states it's a hybrid, 8 hours battery life and supports AptX.



From their Facebook announcement "_KZ-BTE is a Bluetooth headset that belongs to KZ, but this Bluetooth headset is different from other products: APT-X lossless transmission, professional coil iron configuration, long endurance of 8 hours, balanced and comfortable wear, and KZ unique ear amplifier EQ switching function, instantaneous switching between intelligent sound mode and super-bass mode, adapted to you not The same needs for listening._"


 

That's cool that it's aptX and has an 8 hour battery life. I really hope KZ will have ironed out the bugs from all of their previous bluetooth stuff, and somehow made it super rock solid for this product. If not, it will be a big tragedy. Because no matter how good it sounds, the overall product will suffer if it has bluetooth connection skips/dropouts, audio delays, unreliable connectivity, etc.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> From their Facebook announcement "_KZ-BTE is a Bluetooth headset that belongs to KZ, but this Bluetooth headset is different from other products: APT-X lossless transmission, professional coil iron configuration, long endurance of 8 hours, balanced and comfortable wear, and KZ unique ear amplifier EQ switching function, instantaneous switching between intelligent sound mode and super-bass mode, adapted to you not The same needs for listening._"
> 
> 
> 
> That's cool that it's aptX and has an 8 hour battery life. I really hope KZ will have ironed out the bugs from all of their previous bluetooth stuff, and somehow made it super rock solid for this product. If not, it will be a big tragedy. Because no matter how good it sounds, the overall product will suffer if it has bluetooth connection skips/dropouts, audio delays, unreliable connectivity, etc.



I'm guessing the play time will average more around 4-5 hours. My MEE Audio Bluetooth aptx MMCX cable says 8, but only runs around 4-5 and charges EXTREMELY slow. I personally wont be buying and other BT IEM's in the near future due to how poor battery life still is.


----------



## khighly (Sep 8, 2018)

nxnje said:


> I don't think a 40 euros IEM like the ZS10 can compete with the HD800s and
> That was my impression and i wrote it.
> As i used to be a hard HD800s listener and as i've used the ZS10 even for a small time, i can say there can't be a comparison.
> ZS10 are technically monsters, i admit it, but HD800s are on another level and it's obvious they aren't comparable



This is like doing science and only performing your test once instead of repeating it to verify the results. If I go from IT03 to ZS5, it takes around 30 minutes for my ears/brain to even simply adjust, and before that time the ZS5's sound like hot garbage. I'm sorry, but this opinion should not be taken seriously by anybody until further tests have been done, as this opinion sounds *purely* based on price. How do the higs, mids, lows, soundstage compare between the two _to you_ even?


----------



## tripside

khighly said:


> I'm guessing the play time will average more around 4-5 hours. My MEE Audio Bluetooth aptx MMCX cable says 8, but only runs around 4-5 and charges EXTREMELY slow. I personally wont be buying and other BT IEM's in the near future due to how poor battery life still is.



The upgraded KZ Bluetooth cable that I have while beset with problems , does give me 6+ hrs of battery life against  claimed runtime of 8. Any further with current tech will likely need a grotesque neckband to cram a larger battery.


----------



## Slater (Sep 8, 2018)

tripside said:


> The upgraded KZ Bluetooth cable that I have while beset with problems , does give me 6+ hrs of battery life against  claimed runtime of 8. Any further with current tech will likely need a grotesque neckband to cram a larger battery.



Unfortunately, there's no photos of the full BTE cable yet. It's possible the BTE is nothing more than the current KZ aptX neckband cable, but with a hybrid IEM permanently attached. I really hope that's not the case.

Likewise, it could also have batteries in 1 or both earpieces, as well as in 1 in the neckband (adding it all up to 8 hours of battery time).

In any case, I don't honestly even see the need for this product. I mean, with the existing KZ bluetooth cables, you can attach it to about 15 different IEMs from KZ, TRN, BQEYZ, Revonext, etc. You can choose anything from a more balanced flat signature (BQEYZ KC2) to a deep v (TRN V80). With this KZ BTE, the bluetooth portion may be totally awesome, but you're going to be stuck with whatever sound tuning KZ gives it.


----------



## tripside

Slater said:


> Unfortunately, there's no photos of the full BTE cable yet. I*t's possible the BTW is nothing more than the current KZ aptX neckband cable, but with a hybrid IEM permanently attached.* I really hope that's not the case.
> 
> Likewise, it could also have batteries in 1 or both earpieces, as well as in 1 in the neckband (adding it all up to 8 hours of battery time).
> 
> In any case, I don't honestly even see the need for this product. I mean, with the existing KZ bluetooth cables, you can attach it to about 15 different IEMs from KZ, TRN, BQEYZ, Revonext, etc. You can choose anything from a more balanced flat signature (BQEYZ KC2) to a deep v (TRN V80). With this KZ BTE, the bluetooth portion may be totally awesome, but you're going to be stuck with whatever sound tuning KZ gives it.



Thats what TRN did with AS10. Phonograph reviewed it recently, and its nothing worthwhile. 

While I agree with the versatility of using different IEMs with their existing bluetooth cable, a Bluetooth IEM does have a market. If they add IP protection, it could be useful for sports. Might also fit better with they get rid of the stiff memory wires they use.


----------



## nxnje

khighly said:


> This is like doing science and only performing your test once instead of repeating it to verify the results. If I go from IT03 to ZS5, it takes around 30 minutes for my ears/brain to even simply adjust, and before that time the ZS5's sound like hot garbage. I'm sorry, but this opinion should not be taken seriously by anybody until further tests have been done, as this opinion sounds *purely* based on price. How do the higs, mids, lows, soundstage compare between the two _to you_ even?



I'm answering you in a calm way as i don't wanna get nervous but it seems like you can't read.
I said it was a personal opinion and i already thought it was obvious the hd800s would have been way better considering the fact i used them so much team and they're used by many studios as reference for the mixing and mastering session, and i used them for the same purpose.
Then if i had to compare i can't be general: for fun purpose and on the go listening fun sessions, i would go with zs10 (even if they are huge intending about the shell and i can't wear them for so much time as they hurt my ears): easier to drive, more portable, generally more "ergonomic" dunno how to explain.
The hd800s are my paradise when it comes to studio sessions: highs are perfect with so much details that is actually impossible to forget.
Mids are huge: vocals sound awesome and i can mix them perfectly when it comes to their adjustments with the rest of the track.
The impressive thing is how vocals sound natural and airy compared to other headphones.
Bass is well textured and controlled, so balanced that i even feel sometimes there's not enough bass as i'm an old freaky basshead.
Overall the sound signature is not fun at all, everything is precise and detailed, imaging let tracks play instruments where they belong and where they should be, soundstage actually has great depth and width.
Now, if have to say which headphone is technically better, i have no doubts saying the HD800s are much more precise, wether the ZS10 are much more a surprise considering their cost.
Having a better price/performance ratio doesn't mean the product is better than the other one.
I'm safe to say the HD800s sounds technically better if we have to speak clearly about technical performance.
Then what you like more and what i like more is not actually the truth.
What i've written was my personal opinion and it's not a general statement everyone should approve actually.
Next time before judging someone just because of a post, think that everything you read here is all about personal opinion and preferences.
Just that.


----------



## Devodonaldson

khighly said:


> Just grabbed the AS10 after having some trouble with my hearing in one ear after an incident. Back to normal with approval from my audiologist
> 
> I'll leave an initial review when I get them Monday, compared with my other IEM's. I will expand on it throughout the week.
> 
> Edit: Bought the ZS10 as well, why not?  Both arrive Monday.


Can't wait to hear your comparison and thoughts. It's amazing to me the hate the ZS10 received. I personally love mine with either symbio wide bore or comply audio pro tips. Really surprised me and is an awesome companion to my iSine 20 when I need isolation.looking for the next great wide sounding step up if not too costly


----------



## khighly (Sep 8, 2018)

Devodonaldson said:


> Can't wait to hear your comparison and thoughts. It's amazing to me the hate the ZS10 received.



Probably FUD from people heavily invested in pricey IEM's, who don't like budget players competing.



nxnje said:


> I'm answering you in a calm way as i don't wanna get nervous but it seems like you can't read.
> I said it was a personal opinion and i already thought it was obvious the hd800s would have been way better considering the fact i used them so much team and they're used by many studios as reference for the mixing and mastering session, and i used them for the same purpose.
> Then if i had to compare i can't be general: for fun purpose and on the go listening fun sessions, i would go with zs10 (even if they are huge intending about the shell and i can't wear them for so much time as they hurt my ears): easier to drive, more portable, generally more "ergonomic" dunno how to explain.
> The hd800s are my paradise when it comes to studio sessions: highs are perfect with so much details that is actually impossible to forget.
> ...



I'm not saying anything personal about you, just that 10 minutes of listening is not adequate enough to form a valuable opinion, and that your opinion based on such an extremely small period of time should not be taken seriously by others. It's fairly pointless to even post such opinion. Most here is entirely opinion, but I don't see many people giving major reviews here based on <10 minutes of listening time.


----------



## Joong (Sep 8, 2018)

nxnje said:


> I'm answering you in a calm way as i don't wanna get nervous but it seems like you can't read.
> I said it was a personal opinion and i already thought it was obvious the hd800s would have been way better considering the fact i used them so much team and they're used by many studios as reference for the mixing and mastering session, and i used them for the same purpose.
> Then if i had to compare i can't be general: for fun purpose and on the go listening fun sessions, i would go with zs10 (even if they are huge intending about the shell and i can't wear them for so much time as they hurt my ears): easier to drive, more portable, generally more "ergonomic" dunno how to explain.
> The hd800s are my paradise when it comes to studio sessions: highs are perfect with so much details that is actually impossible to forget.
> ...


Seriously defending Hd800, I never saw this much of arguing against this humble zs10, which were usually ignored as is the feeling of " how dare you compare cheap iem to 1k dollar..."
Thanks for the explanations and reasoning to share.
But at the same time I felt that zs10, As10, or one of these chinese iems have been well advanced in technical terms that somebody began to argue or brave enough to compare it to venerable hd800.
I might buy one of them like AS10 to see really it is giant killer or has disruptive technologies that were based on Chinese innovation.
China has the history of magnet ( a key component of iem) and the associated technologies, also has very good labor productivity which can never be achieved by Western world where HD800 was born.


----------



## khighly

Joong said:


> Seriously defending Hd800, I never saw this much of arguing against this humble zs10, which were usually ignored as is the feeling of " how dare you compare cheap iem to 1k dollar..."
> Thanks for the explanations and reasoning to share.
> But at the same time I felt that zs10, As10, or one of these chinese iems have been well advanced in technical terms that somebody began to argue or brave enough to compare it to venerable hd800.
> I might buy one of them like AS10 to see really it is giant killer or has disruptive technologies that were based on Chinese innovation.
> China has the history of magnet ( a key component of iem) and the associated technologies, also has very good labor productivity which can never be achieved by Western world where HD800 was born.



There's no real problem defending the HD800, but there is a problem when you compare a ZS10 to a HD800 with only 10 minutes of listening time. It ends up pulling down the ZS10's view among the community artificially because it seems like the ZS10's aren't good performers.

I will have the ZS10 vs AS10, and other IEM's throughout the next week.


----------



## Joong

khighly said:


> There's no real problem defending the HD800, but there is a problem when you compare a ZS10 to a HD800 with only 10 minutes of listening time. It ends up pulling down the ZS10's view among the community artificially because it seems like the ZS10's aren't good performers.
> 
> I will have the ZS10 vs AS10, and other IEM's throughout the next week.


I agree that 10 min comparison is too short to...
Some case the brain break-in process can take several weeks or months to really appreciate the sound of the phone.


----------



## rum_runner (Sep 8, 2018)

Joong said:


> I agree that 10 min comparison is too short to...
> Some case the brain break-in process can take several weeks or months to really appreciate the sound of the phone.



I'm not sure how onboard I am with that... I think sometimes the phones just aren't very good, like the AS10s and then the brain takes a while to adjust to normalise everything.  After listening for long periods on certain styles of music, I have grown to accept them, but objectively they are still horrible compared to say my properly driven P1s (or even my T2s) on anything with vocals..


----------



## nxnje

khighly said:


> Probably FUD from people heavily invested in pricey IEM's, who don't like budget players competing.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying anything personal about you, just that 10 minutes of listening is not adequate enough to form a valuable opinion, and that your opinion based on such an extremely small period of time should not be taken seriously by others. It's fairly pointless to even post such opinion. Most here is entirely opinion, but I don't see many people giving major reviews here based on <10 minutes of listening time.


Already said mine wasn't a major review, and it wasn't intended to be as it's a personal impression.
If you still don't understand, i can paint you on a piece of paper and then i send you the photo.

Don't blame me, it's just i've written like 4 times already it was my personal impression, 10 mins or 1h imho doesn't change the fact hd800s are technically superior even if they're not 100% comparable.


----------



## nxnje

And anyway i'm not defending the hd800, there are many good headphones on the market.
Then i even said zs10 is a great performer for the price.
So what's the point in saying i'm showing the zs10 as a bad performer? 
So saying a 800 euros headphones sounds better than a 40 euros earbud is like putting the second one in bad light? What the hell..


----------



## nxnje

Joong said:


> Seriously defending Hd800, I never saw this much of arguing against this humble zs10, which were usually ignored as is the feeling of " how dare you compare cheap iem to 1k dollar..."
> Thanks for the explanations and reasoning to share.
> But at the same time I felt that zs10, As10, or one of these chinese iems have been well advanced in technical terms that somebody began to argue or brave enough to compare it to venerable hd800.
> I might buy one of them like AS10 to see really it is giant killer or has disruptive technologies that were based on Chinese innovation.
> China has the history of magnet ( a key component of iem) and the associated technologies, also has very good labor productivity which can never be achieved by Western world where HD800 was born.


Didn't see your message
Anyway, i think the ZS10 is actually a great pair of IEMs. 
Their technology is sure more advanced compared to the one in the HD800.
They sound great for what they cost and that's sure, but my point was another i think..


----------



## s8grave (Sep 8, 2018)

ZS10 is great, not super-bright but very detailed, great separation, lows are not overwhelming, but my zs10 died in an accident :"(
 So I got AS10, and for my ear AS10 is tuned almost similar to ZS10, but slightly more mid-forward, and balanced. I had a couple of full BA earphones like westone w40, es60, shures 535, sony xba300 - and AS10 have the most punchy bass than any of this models, very fast and again its not too elevated. And its very sensitive, so they need less power to drive and make some amp hiss hearable from some sources.
And AS10 is slightly smaller and have longer waveguides so it fits better than ZS10(in MY ears).
So, hope my bla-bla-bla makes some sense for someone) Recommend both of these models, and some wide bore tips, chi-fi rocks!


----------



## Wiljen

Posted my As10 review tonight to my blog.  Probably late enough in the cycle that most of it is old news, but it is still deserving of some good press.


----------



## Danfish98

HungryPanda said:


> I agree it is my new commuting earphone


How does the ZS4 compare to the ZSA?


----------



## HungryPanda

ZS4 has more bass and is more comfortable fitting for me


----------



## HAMS

I think what makes kz popular is their expensive looks/form at damn cheap price. Soundwise they are consistently decent. 10 db boosted bass, linear mid, boosted high. They obviously no match to studio monitoring grade linearity. Imo multiple driver are just harder to tune for linearity.


----------



## Devodonaldson

khighly said:


> There's no real problem defending the HD800, but there is a problem when you compare a ZS10 to a HD800 with only 10 minutes of listening time. It ends up pulling down the ZS10's view among the community artificially because it seems like the ZS10's aren't good performers.
> 
> I will have the ZS10 vs AS10, and other IEM's throughout the next week.


Awaiting your thoughts and comaparison


----------



## murano

Wiljen said:


> Posted my As10 review tonight to my blog.  Probably late enough in the cycle that most of it is old news, but it is still deserving of some good press.



Can you please provide us a link.  The one in your signature doesn't work


----------



## Surrealsky

s8grave said:


> ZS10 is great, not super-bright but very detailed, great separation, lows are not overwhelming, but my zs10 died in an accident :"(
> So I got AS10, and for my ear AS10 is tuned almost similar to ZS10, but slightly more mid-forward, and balanced. I had a couple of full BA earphones like westone w40, es60, shures 535, sony xba300 - and AS10 have the most punchy bass than any of this models, very fast and again its not too elevated. And its very sensitive, so they need less power to drive and make some amp hiss hearable from some sources.
> And AS10 is slightly smaller and have longer waveguides so it fits better than ZS10(in MY ears).
> So, hope my bla-bla-bla makes some sense for someone) Recommend both of these models, and some wide bore tips, chi-fi rocks!




  Quite the same observations i've had. And yes they are really loud and easy to drive. More so than the zs6 which is already quite powerful.


----------



## nxnje

Can't believe it always happens to me.

First time i ordered a KZ headphone was last year in 2017, the KZ ZS3.
Arrived at home, the right earbud wasn't sounding.
As i had bought it from amazon, they just shipped another sample and i returned the bad one back.
Received a new KZ ZS3, same problem.
Returned again, new sample was functioning but so uncomfortable.
I returned it back and bought a memt x5 from aliexpress. Way better imho, but still a bit angry for the KZ ZS3 journey.
EDR1 waa broken and didn't work when i ordered it.

Now we're quite a year forward, ordered KZ ED9.
Received it yesterday and was full of hope as i was curious to hear how they sound.
I put the jack in my DAP: it seems like the right earbud just sounds at a lower volume than the right part, or maybe it just doesn't sound in the same way, i don't know.
The left earpiece sounds great wether the right one is just so dark and low volume.
I bought it from an ebay seller with a discount given by ebay for like 6$.
Now i don't know 6$ are not so much money, but i don't know what to do if i can request a refund or not.
Everytime i buy KZ products there's always a problem.


----------



## Koolpep

Sorry to reign into the parade....

Have listened to the KZ-AS10 the last week and my GOD!! How far have we come that you can get a 5 driver BA in ear with such great sound quality for under $100. 

I do have a few IEMs that are in the 4 figure dollar range but I really question my sanity (sometimes). The AS10 is pretty amazing and now my absolutely recommendation for a sub $100 in ear.


----------



## Wiljen

murano said:


> Can you please provide us a link.  The one in your signature doesn't work



odd, it did for me and I rechecked it just now.  Here is a direct link though http://audiofool.reviews/2018/09/08/kz-as10/


----------



## hakuzen

Wiljen said:


> odd, it did for me and I rechecked it just now.  Here is a direct link though http://audiofool.reviews/2018/09/08/kz-as10/


thanks, great review. complete and detailed. and it matches how i feel they sound, including the poor isolation issue.
in my case, due to my ears, they become uncomfortable after a while.


----------



## ddmt

Some new info about KZ BA10 on their official store at aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Monitor-Sport-Headset-Noise/32922159065.html

Quite a price hike from AS10, 129 USD


----------



## crabdog

Koolpep said:


> Sorry to reign into the parade....
> 
> Have listened to the KZ-AS10 the last week and my GOD!! How far have we come that you can get a 5 driver BA in ear with such great sound quality for under $100.
> 
> I do have a few IEMs that are in the 4 figure dollar range but I really question my sanity (sometimes). The AS10 is pretty amazing and now my absolutely recommendation for a sub $100 in ear.


It's true, we've seen massive improvements across the board not just from KZ but Chi-Fi in general. The AS10 is definitely a good IEM and I enjoy it quite a lot. But zomg I just cannot believe how good the ZS4 is for the price. It is absolutely bananas.


----------



## Slater

ddmt said:


> Some new info about KZ BA10 on their official store at aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Monitor-Sport-Headset-Noise/32922159065.html
> 
> Quite a price hike from AS10, 129 USD



Ouch, that's a huge jump in price.

Although regardless of the price, that doesn't look like it would be very comfortable...


----------



## crabdog

Slater said:


> Ouch, that's a huge jump in price.
> 
> Although regardless of the price, that doesn't look like it would be very comfortable...


Is anyone else hoping this will be the one where they ditch the memory wire?


----------



## tripside

crabdog said:


> It's true, we've seen massive improvements across the board not just from KZ but Chi-Fi in general. The AS10 is definitely a good IEM and I enjoy it quite a lot. But zomg I just cannot believe how good the ZS4 is for the price. It is absolutely bananas.



Better than current sub 30$ offerings like F200, Hypersense and Deat Small ?


----------



## Dcell7

I hope they do something about their QC with such a price.


----------



## crabdog

tripside said:


> Better than current sub 30$ offerings like F200, Hypersense and Deat Small ?


I would rate it above those 3 yes. However it's still nice to listen to a single dynamic iem from time to time. While the hybrids sound technically superior there's something satisfying about good old analog DD.


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Sep 10, 2018)

Just heard that BA10 release have been postponed until the 15th.

Seems to be offf sale on Aliexprss now

(As in its there, but the buy button is unavailable, so you can’t add to your cart.)

Looking at stock numbers, it seems that they had 800 of each, so a handful 7 or 8 or each seem to have been placed


----------



## eggnogg

crabdog said:


> Is anyone else hoping this will be the one where they ditch the memory wire?



no, unfortunately, but hey new cable!



Spoiler: []


----------



## crabdog

eggnogg said:


> no, unfortunately, but hey new cable!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: []


Someone actually must have seen the artist's concept drawings and said: "Looks great, let's go with that." I love Iron Man as much as the next guy but crikey that's hideous. Mind you, if they sound good I'll put them in my ears. I don't give a ***.


----------



## eggnogg

crabdog said:


> Someone actually must have seen the artist's concept drawings and said: "Looks great, let's go with that." I love Iron Man as much as the next guy but crikey that's hideous. Mind you, if they sound good I'll put them in my ears. I don't give a ***.



they better do!



Spoiler: []


----------



## CoiL

crabdog said:


> So, day 2 with the ZS4 and I am amazed by the quality of this IEM. I think it might be my new favourite sub $20 earphone.


I melted down and got a pair for 16€ (insured and tracked). Hope they do better than ZS3 which had lot of quality problems (sound tube). I bought 4 pairs of ZS3 for 4$ per pair for modding purposes.
IMHO... the best way to get custom IEM currently is to get ZS3 or ZS4 shells, open them and install some good BA`s or DDs or both and Your`e done ;P
Though this need testing unit and measurements and etc. ...but perf vs. cost vs. comfort is damn high!


----------



## Slater

crabdog said:


> Is anyone else hoping this will be the one where they ditch the memory wire?



I hope so, but doubtful. It can be seen in at least 1 photo, and in the wire instructions:


----------



## C2thew

CoiL said:


> I melted down and got a pair for 16€ (insured and tracked). Hope they do better than ZS3 which had lot of quality problems (sound tube). I bought 4 pairs of ZS3 for 4$ per pair for modding purposes.
> IMHO... the best way to get custom IEM currently is to get ZS3 or ZS4 shells, open them and install some good BA`s or DDs or both and Your`e done ;P
> Though this need testing unit and measurements and etc. ...but perf vs. cost vs. comfort is damn high!



Dang where was I when they were selling those at $4 a pair?  Someone post the next time the ZS3's or ZS4's go on sale.


----------



## Makahl

CoiL said:


> I melted down and got a pair for 16€ (insured and tracked). Hope they do better than ZS3 which had lot of quality problems (sound tube). I bought 4 pairs of ZS3 for 4$ per pair for modding purposes.
> IMHO... the best way to get custom IEM currently is to get ZS3 or ZS4 shells, open them and install some good BA`s or DDs or both and Your`e done ;P
> Though this need testing unit and measurements and etc. ...but perf vs. cost vs. comfort is damn high!



My DIY adventure wasn't that "cheap":
- TS80 iron soldering with the feature to regulate temperature otherwise you can easily damage your BA $80
- Bondic UV glue $20
- Tubes, Knowles dampers, wires $5
- Blu-tac to get a good grip to solder BA and such $3
- Knowles RAB-32257 pair $25
- ZS3 IEM $15 (I know i could've got it cheaper like $8-10 but it's so random and at this time hasn't any good promo)

So something about ~$148 probably more because I don't remember exactly the shipping.

Ofc now I can build/repair a lot of IEMs/earbuds but for a beginner without tools, it'll be kind of expensive. Also the RAB-32257 (10mm - brown damper) it's amazing for classics like Pantera, Slayer which is aggressive but something modern like TesseracT the bass is just missing especially compared to a good DD. So that project ended up not being a great all-rounder IEM which is ok, also there's room to improvements like adding CI BAs or DD for bass. However, I think ZS4 will do it better as an all-rounder and cheaper lol. Looking forward to getting mine.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> Dang where was I when they were selling those at $4 a pair?  Someone post the next time the ZS3's or ZS4's go on sale.



I doubt that is going to happen. Gearbest's sale prices in the last year have been quite different than in years past. I'm not sure the reason though, but I have only bought 1 thing from them in the last year (TRN earphone case), vs dozens of large orders in previous years.

If you did want ZS3 just for shells, I'll bet you could buy as many defective pairs for nothing but shipping cost, as they had that problem with defective ZS3 drivers last year.


----------



## Nikostr8

damn now im really tempted on buying a pair of ZS4's since the ZS3 fit so damn well in my ear...


----------



## khighly (Sep 10, 2018)

*Initial ~2hr AS10 Impressions:*
Decent isolation, good fit and really great seal. No comfort issues yet. Extremely easy to power. Definitely a more full sound with more mid bass & upper mids than any of the KZ IEM's in my signature. I actually feel like the mid bass overpowers and bleeds into male vocals a bit (Mac DeMarco - For The First Time), but they can definitely move air. A little darker than most KZ IEM's I have with quite a roll off for the highs but nothing detrimental. Bass is fairly big & low & it seems like it might be distorting slightly on some songs. Soundstage is slightly below the ZS6 which I feel is the best soundstage I've experienced from KZ. I feel like the AS10's are going to be strongly mastering dependent and picky.

*Initial ~2hr ZS10 Impressions:*
The tube doesn't really go far into your ear which is somewhat weird and much different than the AS10's which go deep. It fits and seals well, but will need further testing. Sound reminds me more of the ZS6's with controlled highs & no sibilance. Very airy. Extends higher than the AS10, cymbals are very apparent & crisp. Microphone pops really move air and it's exciting. Less of a low end & less mid bass than the AS10, but still present in line with everything else than any other of my KZ's. Mid bass really appears & fills when it needs to but isn't always seemingly there like the AS10's. Lows extend lower than the AS10's and are cleaner, sub-lows feel separated from everything else and don't interfere. Overall sounds more flat & tuned where the AS10's have noticeable peaks at some frequencies (though keep in mind, this is only at 2hr). Soundstage seems a bit less wide than the AS10's. I think this is also going to be heavily mastering dependent, and I remember the ZS6 being this way as well. These are pretty impressive.

_*Please keep in mind these are ~2hr initial impressions. These may not be final reviews, and they may initially be worded messy as it just jot things down._


----------



## Jenz

Was the ZS4 already measured? Is it easy to drive with a smartphone?


----------



## Makahl

Jenz said:


> Was the ZS4 already measured?



Yes.



> Is it easy to drive with a smartphone?



Depends on the model. But I believe for most of modern smartphones it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Jenz

Thank you! My ZS4 is also on the way to me. The ZS3 fit me, although the original - so the SD2 and the SD2s did not fit. 
Currently I'm listening to the Blitzwolf BW Vox1. I wonder if the ZS4 sounds better. Find the Vox1 very well. 
My LG V10 is enough to power the Vox1. That should then work synonymous with the ZS4. 
The ZS4 would then probably have much more low bass than the Blitzwolf. Hopefully not too much.


----------



## HungryPanda

ZS4 for the win


----------



## stryed

khighly said:


> *Initial ~2hr AS10 Impressions:
> *
> Decent isolation, good fit and really great seal. No comfort issues yet. Extremely easy to power. Definitely a more full sound with more mid bass & upper mids than any of the KZ IEM's in my signature. I actually feel like the mid bass overpowers and bleeds into male vocals a bit (Mac DeMarco - For The First Time), but they can definitely move air. A little darker than most KZ IEM's I have with quite a roll off for the highs but nothing detrimental. Bass is fairly big & low & it seems like it might be distorting slightly on some songs. Soundstage is slightly below the ZS6 which I feel is the best soundstage I've experienced from KZ. I feel like the AS10's are going to be strongly mastering dependent and picky.
> 
> ...


Very confusing comparison. I have no idea which IEM is being described =(


----------



## groucho69

stryed said:


> Very confusing comparison. I have no idea which IEM is being described =(



It is bolded above the impressions. AS10 first, then ZS10.


----------



## stryed (Sep 10, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> It is bolded above the impressions. AS10 first, then ZS10.


My bad, I read it as a AS10 in both after 1 vs 2h of listening time. 

Definitely makes me rethink jumping on the AS10 and going for a KZ6 instead or even the KZ10, as soundstage wows me.


----------



## hakuzen

hope BA10 will be tuned differently to AS10. the mid-bass boost is exaggerated, and aggravated by the shy upper-mids and treble. too dark. i'd wish to opine about their treble detail, but can't hear it barely. it's a pity, because mids seem to be the best in KZ's line, if they weren't obscured by the bass. once again, EQ is suggested, like was with ZS6, my fav (followed by ED16 -their upper-mids don't bother at me-).
tried ZSA a bit more, and find them balanced (except mids, as always), and ZS4 (a few minutes), also balanced and my best KZ's fit and isolation. but both less detailed and less separation than ZS6, AS10, and ED16.


----------



## CardigdanWalk (Sep 10, 2018)

Update on TRN Bluetooth receivers, I have both the TRN BT-3 and the new TRN-BT10.

Both seem to have very similar specs and use he same chipset, I think the later is IP-7 waterproof and Bluetooth 4.2

The BT-3 is bulkier, but at the same time feels more substantial and less likely too break.

The BT-10 if a lot more flexible, so easier to roll up, but also feels like the wires would be more vulnerable over time.

For me though the biggest issue is the positioning of the control / battery / mic

On the BT-3 it’s built into the plastic and held against your neck, so more solid but your voice will probably be fainter.

With the BT-10 these “dangle” beside the side of your face, so I’ve no doubt mic wise it will be better for talking.

However my primary use case is running, and I think it looks a bit stupid with these two black dangly earring style boxes beside my face, which I’m sure will start brushing against my face as I move.

So for me, BT-3 wins. (And is annoying as I have the non-aac version, so I should have just bought that instead of gambling on the BT-10!)


----------



## groucho69

stryed said:


> My bad, I read it as a AS10 in both after 1 vs 2h of listening time.
> 
> Definitely makes me rethink jumping on the AS10 and going for a KZ6 instead or even the KZ10, as soundstage wows me.



Hey I haven't made a mistakes in....what time is it???


----------



## Slater

CardigdanWalk said:


> Update on TRN Bluetooth receivers, I have both the TRN BT-3 and the new TRN-BT10.
> 
> Both seem to have very similar specs and use he same chipset, I think the later is IP-7 waterproof and Bluetooth 4.2
> 
> ...



I love my BT3. The BT10 hasn’t arrived yet, but now you have me regretting the decision 

Luckily I don’t jog, so I don’t have to worry too much about the bouncy bouncy against my face. But still, the dangling earring design is not that great. I definitely prefer the neck type, but I also know people who hate the neck type.

It is nice at least that people have a choice between the 2 designs. At least both (or all 3) TRNs are better than every single KZ cable that’s come out so far. I don’t know why KZ just doesn’t go to whoever is making TRNs cables and have them made there?


----------



## Slater

groucho69 said:


> Hey I haven't made a mistakes in....what time is it???



Miller Time?



 

Hammer Time?


----------



## groucho69




----------



## Devodonaldson

khighly said:


> *Initial ~2hr AS10 Impressions:*
> Decent isolation, good fit and really great seal. No comfort issues yet. Extremely easy to power. Definitely a more full sound with more mid bass & upper mids than any of the KZ IEM's in my signature. I actually feel like the mid bass overpowers and bleeds into male vocals a bit (Mac DeMarco - For The First Time), but they can definitely move air. A little darker than most KZ IEM's I have with quite a roll off for the highs but nothing detrimental. Bass is fairly big & low & it seems like it might be distorting slightly on some songs. Soundstage is slightly below the ZS6 which I feel is the best soundstage I've experienced from KZ. I feel like the AS10's are going to be strongly mastering dependent and picky.
> 
> *Initial ~2hr ZS10 Impressions:*
> ...


Thx for your impression. That's pretty much what I get sith my ZS10. Surprised me in a positive way. I use with Comply audio tips.


----------



## alex5908

Hello everybody,
Could anybody compare **** H5 with AS10? That would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## khighly (Sep 10, 2018)

Are there any decent aptX bluetooth cables that will fit the ZS10's? TRN BT3?

How much will variances in resistor/capacitor values change the way the ZS10, AS10 sound per pair? I'm guessing the values aren't hand picked & precise for this price point and could swing tolerances 10%+. Hand picked/measured to precise values costs $money$, and so do resistors with extremely low tolerances.


----------



## Astonish

Hey guys which kz has the best mids and least sibilant treble in your opinion? Looking for a good edm/vocal headphone, but am treble sensitive with iems more so for some reason. Treble extension is okay, but don’t want Beyer dynamic/hd 700 treble lol


----------



## Slater (Sep 10, 2018)

Astonish said:


> Hey guys which kz has the best mids and least sibilant treble in your opinion? Looking for a good edm/vocal headphone, but am treble sensitive with iems more so for some reason. Treble extension is okay, but don’t want Beyer dynamic/hd 700 treble lol



Hmm, very few KZs have forward mids (as you posted in the other thread). And I would say that most KZ hybrids will have treble that’s too hot for you, since you said you’re better treble sensitive. KZ loves to use the 30095 BA driver, which is pretty hot and slightly sibilant. Their QC is also hit or miss. I’m sure you’re going to get a lot of KZ “flavor of the month” recommendations though.

Since you’re looking for a flatter signature with smooth treble (since you’re treble sensitive), nice mids, and good bass (as you mentioned in your other post), I would try something like (in no order):

- Magaosi BK50
- Urbanfun Hifi
- TinAudio T2
- Bosshifi B3
- BQEYZ KC2 (or also K2)

They are all well within your $75 budget you mentioned. Most are $30-$50, but I don’t know which are on Amazon.

Out of that list, only the BK50 (newest version), T2, and the BQEYZ have a removable cable (if that matters to you).

I own everything on that list (except the KC2), and I listen to EDM like you. You can’t go wrong with anything on that list IMO. And while I don’t own an HD650, one of my friends does, so I am familiar with its tuning.

I hope that helps.


----------



## Astonish

Slater said:


> Hmm, very few KZs have forward mids (as you posted in the other thread). And I would say that most KZ hybrids will have treble that’s too hot for you, since you said you’re better treble sensitive. KZ loves to use the 30095 BA driver, which is pretty hot and slightly sibilant. Their QC is also hit or miss. I’m sure you’re going to get a lot of KZ “flavor of the month” recommendations though.
> 
> Since you’re looking for a flatter signature with smooth treble (since you’re treble sensitive), nice mids, and good bass (as you mentioned in your other post), I would try something like (in no order):
> 
> ...



Awesome, thank you for those suggestions I will check them out. I just instantly thought of kz because they’re readily available as a brand on amazon.


----------



## Slater (Sep 10, 2018)

Astonish said:


> Awesome, thank you for those suggestions I will check them out. I just instantly thought of kz because they’re readily available as a brand on amazon.



Yes, KZs are readily available, but their house sound is v shaped. They literally don’t have any IEMs that check *all* of your boxes - mid centric, good bass, smooth/rolled off treble.

The HDS3 is the only one that would even be somewhat close to your requirement list (it’s a mild v shape, single dynamic micro driver). It’s a great KZ IEM, but the ones on that list above are better.

And pretty much everything they make now is hybrid. And IMO KZs treble implementation is going to be way too hot for you if you are treble sensitive and looking for rolled off treble.


----------



## mbwilson111

Astonish said:


> Awesome, thank you for those suggestions I will check them out. I just instantly thought of kz because they’re readily available as a brand on amazon.



I thought the KZs on Amazon were quite a bit more expensive than when you order from aliexpress.


----------



## Astonish

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought the KZs on Amazon were quite a bit more expensive than when you order from aliexpress.



Haven’t compared, but for the convenience of prime shipping and returns they still seem like a good value at the current prices. I know the t2s are like $20 more which is kind of a price hike, but the kzs seemed more reasonable. Anyway, thanks for the great suggestions, I’m looking at the earbuds and iems you suggested in the other thread


----------



## Slater (Sep 10, 2018)

Astonish said:


> Haven’t compared, but for the convenience of prime shipping and returns they still seem like a good value at the current prices. I know the t2s are like $20 more which is kind of a price hike, but the kzs seemed more reasonable. Anyway, thanks for the great suggestions, I’m looking at the earbuds and iems you suggested in the other thread



As much as I live KZs, the T2 are on another level compared to KZs. They are a legend around here. $20 extra is nothing - that’s a couple cups of coffee or 2 beers.

Also, the 11.11 sale is coming up on Aliexpress in a few weeks. There will be epic discounts. The T2 is much cheaper then.

Also, Tin Audio is only a few days away from releasing the replacement for the T2. In fact, they have 2 new ones - the T2 Pro and the T3.


----------



## Astonish

Slater said:


> T2 are on another level compared to KZs. They are a legend around here. $20 extra is nothing - that’s a couple cups of coffee or 2 beers.
> 
> Also, the 11.11 sale is coming up on Aliexpress in a few weeks. There will be epic discounts. The T2 is much cheaper then.
> 
> Also, Tin Audio is only a few days away from releasing the replacement for the T2. In fact, they have 2 new ones - the T2 Pro and the T3.



Oh, I meant the t2s on amazon were $20 more than buying elsewhere, not $20 more than the kz. Sorry for the confusion.

Ah nice I will check those out


----------



## Slater (Sep 10, 2018)

Astonish said:


> Oh, I meant the t2s on amazon were $20 more than buying elsewhere, not $20 more than the kz. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Ah nice I will check those out



Got it.

Well, in my experience, EVERYTHING on Amazon is more expensive than Aliexpress. The premium is for the convenience of fast shipping, Amazon returns, etc.

Amazon does have a lot of lightning deals though, where the prices are much closer (and sometimes even lower).


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 10, 2018)

Slater said:


> Got it.
> 
> Well, in my experience, EVERYTHING on Amazon is more expensive than Aliexpress. The premium is for the convenience of fast shipping, Amazon returns, etc.



Except when there is a really good lightning deal.  

Also the Artiste DC1 was cheaper on Amazon UK than on ali.  Actually it still is cheaper.  £22

You just have to compare individual items when you shop.  Sometimes discontinued things end of on Amazon.


----------



## DAP1MP13

Astonish said:


> Oh, I meant the t2s on amazon were $20 more than buying elsewhere, not $20 more than the kz. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Ah nice I will check those out





I’ve been contemplating getting the T2s. Do you have a link where the T2 is $20 cheaper than Amazon? I see on AliExpress it’s approximately $50, and on Amazon it’s pretty much the same price, same for Penon Audio.

Thanks.


----------



## Astonish

DAP1MP13 said:


> I’ve been contemplating getting the T2s. Do you have a link where the T2 is $20 cheaper than Amazon? I see on AliExpress it’s approximately $50, and on Amazon it’s pretty much the same price, same for Penon Audio.
> 
> Thanks.



https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/9anq2x/tin_audio_t2_for_30/

Apparently they were on sale for $30 on aliexpress two weeks ago. Not much help now, but keep an eye out. I seen them for $40 on amazon and ebay too last week, but the price is $50 now


----------



## DAP1MP13

Astonish said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/9anq2x/tin_audio_t2_for_30/
> 
> Apparently they were on sale for $30 on aliexpress two weeks ago. Not much help now, but keep an eye out. I seen them for $40 on amazon and ebay too last week, but the price is $50 now


 
Aw damn, missed it. Appreciate the info anyway.


----------



## DocHoliday (Sep 11, 2018)

The red/gold combo is a bit over the top for me. It's a novel approach but I couldn't pull the trigger on that color combination.

The proper thing to do would be 
1) All black 
2) All red 
3) All gold
4) black/gold




 



Wondering if the triple-vented faceplates and empty space in the cavity will diffuse some of that bass from the low frequency BA.



 


 Mimicking the dynamics of the ZS6's full-bodied bass  but with faster decay and better texture might put this on another level if the midrange is dense, forward and smooth. 


If they double up on any BA then double up the mid/high BA (31005) and not the high frequency  (30095).



 



 



 




Comfort remains to be seen but at $129 these better outperform the ZS6 on every front:

Imaging
Separation 
Timbre (probably the most crucial differentiation at three times the ZS6's price)
Treble 
Midrange 
Mid-bass 
Sub-bass 

.......but mostly on KZ's legendary price-to-performance ratio.

Edit:

Looks like a price correction was in order.



 






DAP1MP13 said:


> ....



Dude, what's with the inappropriate icon?


----------



## DAP1MP13

DocHoliday said:


> ...



Another head-fier had it back in 2006 or 2007, don’t remember who though. Italian clothing brand that sponsors MotoGP racing events.


----------



## Jenz

Astonish said:


> Super, danke für diese Vorschläge, ich werde sie überprüfen. Ich habe sofort an KZ gedacht, weil sie als Marke auf Amazon verfügbar sind.




You can also try a BlitzWolf BW VOX1. Very nice relaxed heights.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Waaah, pulling the trigger on the BA10. 

I’ve gone for black / red, which I’ve heard there are delays too. So if you are keen to be the first, go for the gold ones!

Need to get rid of some of my old KZs already!


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> The red/gold combo is a bit over the top for me. It's a novel approach but I couldn't pull the trigger on that color combination.
> 
> The proper thing to do would be
> 1) All black
> ...



I agree. Also there have been enough red/black combos.  I like your color choices better.


----------



## Slater

DAP1MP13 said:


> Aw damn, missed it. Appreciate the info anyway.



For the 11.11 Aliexpress sale, they will be back down to $30 again.


----------



## Devodonaldson

CardigdanWalk said:


> Waaah, pulling the trigger on the BA10.
> 
> I’ve gone for black / red, which I’ve heard there are delays too. So if you are keen to be the first, go for the gold ones!
> 
> Need to get rid of some of my old KZs already!


Really thinking about these. I love the ZS10 with Comply smartcore audio pro tips.want to hear something about these first though. Also thinking about the bgvp dmg as well. Read good things about that closed back for $130. I'm not trying to own a large number of iems. My iSine 20 are my go-to, but I sometimes want/need an enclosed pair, but I want soundstage as well. My whole reason for getting away from iems years ago was the "in my head" feeling. iSine and less so ZS10 have rid me of that feeling. I love the 64 audio too fourte, but no way I'm spending 2 grand on iems anytime soon, lol.


----------



## HAMS

Slater said:


> Yes, KZs are readily available, but their house sound is v shaped. They literally don’t have any IEMs that check *all* of your boxes - mid centric, good bass, smooth/rolled off treble.
> 
> The HDS3 is the only one that would even be somewhat close to your requirement list (it’s a mild v shape, single dynamic micro driver). It’s a great KZ IEM, but the ones on that list above are better.
> 
> And pretty much everything they make now is hybrid. And IMO KZs treble implementation is going to be way too hot for you if you are treble sensitive and looking for rolled off treble.



Interesting after comparing a few measurement, Tin audio T2 actually has 'etymotic flat' bass? Slight less mid and extra treble?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Okay guys, This would be the best KZ setup...

Perfect, actually better than anything I have ever heard.

KZ ES4
20ohm adapter from penon(smartphone users)
75ohm adapter dunu(High power amp and DAP users)
Silver cable
Neutraliser(adapter made the tuning even more easier and less distorty)
Viper(spectrum extension to get high end air treble back )

1 word

Amazing.

It is better than AS10, TinAudio T2 and many champion.
Channel imbalance is way better.
Soundstage is correct
Timbre is phenomenal
Sorta made the fuzzy bass(due to its inherited KZ gene and narrow starline) clear.....I mean way clear
Smoother and dammed.....this resolution takes iBasso it01..
Something a little darker than neutral, way more relaxing..bass got control.

If somebody wants the exaggeration, it is somewhat sounding like King Pro and Final E5000 son or daughter....

King pro like bass and E5000 like mids...

And I m serious.

Mother swear.

And if you want a real time comparison..

Way better than AS10 in positional cues and timbre. AS10 has advantage in clarity though.....but the ES4 makes me sleep due to its stage depth and reach


----------



## SSandDigital (Sep 11, 2018)

Agreed, anyone with an in, or contact at KZ, tell them to stop doubling up on the treble, double up on the mids instead.

Definitely curious if BA10 will compete w/ BGVP DMG hype.


----------



## Slater (Sep 11, 2018)

SSandDigital said:


> Agreed, anyone with an in, or contact at KZ, tell them to stop doubling up on the treble, double up on the mids instead.



That is one thing they need. They have no legit offerings with forward midrange. Everything is bass bass bass treble treble treble.

Oh, there is the ED4, which has a W shape. It wasn’t for me, but there are people that liked it though. You can pick them up dirt cheap ($5). Perhaps you’ll be one of the people that like them.


----------



## SSandDigital (Sep 11, 2018)

Slater said:


> That is one thing they need. They have no legit offerings with forward midrange. Everything is bass bass bass treble treble treble.
> 
> Oh, there is the ED4, which has a W shape. It wasn’t for me, but there are people that liked it though. You can pick them up dirt cheap ($5). Perhaps you’ll be one of the people that like them.



Yes I've noticed some of the Chinese manufacturers have yet to understand some of us like sparkle to our treble, not shrill sibilance...  Example the AD900x has sparkle, treble/mid forward, but it's not sibilant.  Focus on the 20-10K range, rather than this stupidity with 40K.

Seems they just focus on the numbers, specifications.  And forgetting presentation matters as well, not just the numbers, and but the quality of the sound.

Simply I think they are tuning by the numbers rather than by a mix, with ear as well.  And Head-Fi is at fault for this too, everyone is obsessed with graphs.  Graphs be damn, my ears are more important.


----------



## CoiL (Sep 11, 2018)

Devodonaldson said:


> My whole reason for getting away from iems years ago was the "in my head" feeling. iSine and less so ZS10 have rid me of that feeling.


You could try ZS5v1 with proper amping&dac too if You can (there is no v1 anymore, at least ppl have stopped trying to get v1, maybe latest batch has reverted back to v1 but no-one knows).
It has better soundstage "open/airy" nature than my modded IT01 and best I`ve heard among KZ, sometimes even topping my Aune T1 setup with X1 open cans (depends on music/mastering). But sometimes can sound little too "hollow". Thought that ES4 is best KZ but after listening ZS5v1 few min, realized that latter is still king of KZ for me (very subjective).
That reminded me... I should finish up my v1 shell mod -.-
And then there is 4in1 DD or ZST DD + BK50 BA mod in ZS3/ZS4 shells... and so on... too many projects unfinished ;/

Edit: Just decided to not finish many projects and sell some IEMs, KZs also, check if interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iem-earbud-cleanup-kz-es4-zst-anv-4in1-monk.888656/


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 11, 2018)

SSandDigital said:


> Simply I think they are tuning by the numbers rather than by a mix, with ear as well. And Head-Fi is at fault for this too, everyone is obsessed with graphs. Graphs be damn, my ears are more important.



This head-fier is not obsessed with graphs.  When they are posted, I just scroll past them. Some are way too hard to even be seen on screen anyway.  If I did want to study graphs I would want big sheets of paper.


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> This head-fier is not obsessed with graphs.  When they are posted, I just scroll past them. Some are way too hard to even seen on screen anyway.  If I did want to study graphs I would want big sheets of paper.


How many graphs posted here are absolutely dead wrong too?


----------



## SSandDigital

khighly said:


> How many graphs posted here are absolutely dead wrong too?



And so many times graphs are not representative of sound.  IMO HD650 sound and it's graph are completely different for example.  K712 and HD600 graphs are fairly similar, yet sound totally different, which is where tuning by ear has some merits I think.


----------



## DAP1MP13

Slater said:


> For the 11.11 Aliexpress sale, they will be back down to $30 again.



I’m keeping an eye on them, thank you.


----------



## randomnin

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Okay guys, This would be the best KZ setup...
> 
> Perfect, actually better than anything I have ever heard.
> 
> ...


I just lower a couple of dBs at 20-250Hz and add a bit more at 8-16kHz with an equalizer. Better channel balance than ED16 definitely, proven both by available frequency response graphs and by audiocheck.net tests, the imbalance is audible. But isolation and comfort of ES4 are lax. Can't sleep with them on.


----------



## Zlivan

Nothing wrong with graphs if you can correlate what you see with what you hear and prefer to hear.

Nothing wrong with skipping them either, then you can choose to buy something and judge for yourself or take another person's word on their sound influenced by their own hearing and preference.

Plenty of choice


----------



## Wiljen

If Head-fi would enforce a set of common units and graduations on all posted FR graphs, even though the calibrations would still be called into question, at least the shape of the curve would remain relevant for comparisons.   As it is, with everyone using different tools and different graduations on the graphs, it is easy to mistakenly look at the shape of a curve and not the units and draw a lot of poor conclusions.


----------



## Zlivan

Yes, some kind of standard would definitely help and make comparing somewhat easier.


----------



## randomnin

I like graphs a lot. Most of the graphs around are right as per my experience. I use them for equalizing and disqualifying a whole lot of IEMs from a place in my purchase list.


----------



## Slater

Zlivan said:


> Yes, some kind of standard would definitely help and make comparing somewhat easier.



They do have standards. The problem is that the equipment to properly measure gear according to the standard is far out of reach of the average person.


----------



## audionab

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Okay guys, This would be the best KZ setup...
> 
> Perfect, actually better than anything I have ever heard.
> 
> ...


exaggeration 100


----------



## mbwilson111

audionab said:


> exaggeration 100



some people just like to hear themselves talk...


----------



## khighly

audionab said:


> exaggeration 100


All of that DSP!


----------



## toddy0191

audionab said:


> exaggeration 100



Exaggeration 100000000000000000


----------



## mbwilson111

..we better be careful... lol


----------



## CoupleofBigGulps

I recently picked up a set of the ED16's and I really like them but I'd like to get some Comply tips but i can't find anywhere the right size for them.  I stuffed a pair of foams that came with my Pinnacle PX's over the nozzle but it doesn't seem to fit properly.


----------



## mbwilson111

CoupleofBigGulps said:


> I recently picked up a set of the ED16's and I really like them but I'd like to get some Comply tips but i can't find anywhere the right size for them.  I stuffed a pair of foams that came with my Pinnacle PX's over the nozzle but it doesn't seem to fit properly.



I have spinfits on mine... it helps the nozzle to go in a bit more so that the shell lies flat.  Comfortable and a good seal for me.


----------



## Devodonaldson

CoupleofBigGulps said:


> I recently picked up a set of the ED16's and I really like them but I'd like to get some Comply tips but i can't find anywhere the right size for them.  I stuffed a pair of foams that came with my Pinnacle PX's over the nozzle but it doesn't seem to fit properly.


The Comply smartcore are a one size fits all iems product. They only seem to come in medium but I have a pair on my KZ ZS10 as well as my iSine 20. That's a 400 series and a 600 series monitor. The smartcore fits 100-600 as the insert area stretches. They are awesome. The smartcore audio pro is also $9.99 for a set of 3 on Amazon right now


----------



## TheVortex (Sep 11, 2018)

Just a little haul from AliExpress recently. PHB EM-023 in Green, KZ AS10 black no mic, TRN V80 with mic, TRN cable no mic and new KZ solid case.

I am impressed with all three so far and I think they all beat my HiSenior B5+in my opinion...........


----------



## Makahl

TheVortex said:


> PHB EM-023 in Green, KZ AS10 black no mic, TRN V80 with mic, TRN cable no mic and new KZ solid case.
> 
> I am impressed with all three so far and I think they all beat my HiSenior B5+in my opinion...........



After the honeymoon stage is over I'd love to read a comparison!


----------



## CoiL

TheVortex said:


> I am impressed with all three so far and I think *they all beat my HiSenior B5+*in my opinion...........


Wut? really? I will certainly get PHB then (will replace my on-sale IEMs as workhorse)!


----------



## phower (Sep 11, 2018)

SSandDigital said:


> tuning by ear has some merits I think.



I strongly disagree. If tuning by ears has merits, Sennheiser/Beyerdynamic/AKG would be doing it and they don't. If the giants in the headphone industry are using CSD and other tools, there must be reason for it. And the reason is age and ear shape affect hearing to a far greater extent than we imagine.
Look at the rtings video on youtube explaining measurements. In a group of 5 peope, there was so much variation in both bass and treble frequency responses as heard at the ears.

30 years ago when computing power was not cheap, headphones/speakers were designed by ears, not now.

The only companies designing by ear now are those who can't afford the tools or lack the expertise. Some companies tout '_designed by ear' _as a feature which it isn't.

An inability to read graphs is understandable but to claim that designed with science is inferior to 'designed by ear' is ignorance.


----------



## TheVortex

The B5+ is a disapointment for me and I will probably never use it again. It has a weird vacuum effect as it is not vented and I never had that issue with any of the above.

Just a quick test with all three and The PHB has the most bass with the least highs, V80 is the brightest with probably the least bass and the AS10 is somewhere in between. They are all very good and would recommend them all and they are all easy to power.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Wut? really? I will certainly get PHB then (will replace my on-sale IEMs as workhorse)!



You're not supposed to be buying any new IEMs Coil! Your modded IT01 were supposed to be your end game earphones lol

I knew you couldn't resist all of the new shiny things for long


----------



## SSandDigital (Sep 11, 2018)

phower said:


> I strongly disagree. If tuning by ears has merits, Sennheiser/Beyerdynamic/AKG would be doing it and they don't.



They do, to think they don't delusional.  HD650 was created to have speaker like presentation, by only going by graphs that would be impossible.  HD650 wasn't made for studio use, originally was marketed as a HiFi consumer headphone targeted at HiFi speaker audiophiles, for music appreciation, not monitoring.  Look back at their original marketing.  To believe they only tuned HD650 by numbers and graphs is hilarious.

Momentum is targeted at the consumer mobile user.  It has a distinctly colored presentation excellent for modern pop.  To believe this was done only by graphs, again, HILARIOUS.

Also for others, you're comparing studio to IEM purely for listening.  I frankly don't want perfectly flat frequency response from my mobile IEM.  I am not using cheap IEM to do critical listening.  I don't care if it has the specifications and best possible frequency chart.  How does Coubting Crows sound on the V80?  That's what matters.  It could have the messiest graph ever, but if music sounds fun, enjoyable, that is what matters.  Perfect graph and music sounds lifeless, garbage IEM then, I am buying ChiFi to listen to music, not monitor.

And also AKG supposedly had Quincy Jones consult.  I bet he sat there staring at numbers and graphs, because that's what a grammy winning producer would do... Right

Delusional to believe they don't tune by ear as well.


----------



## Slater (Sep 11, 2018)

SSandDigital said:


> They do, to think they don't delusional.  HD650 was created to have speaker like presentation, by only going by graphs that would be impossible.  HD650 wasn't made for studio use, originally was marketed as a HiFi consumer headphone targeted at HiFi speaker audiophiles, for music appreciation, not monitoring.  Look back at their original marketing.  To believe they only tuned HD650 by numbers and graphs is hilarious.
> 
> Momentum is targeted at the consumer mobile user.  It has a distinctly colored presentation excellent for modern pop.  To believe this was done only by graphs, again, HILARIOUS.
> 
> ...



https://usa.1more.com/blogs/reviews/a-little-light-on-luca-bignardi-and-tuning
\https://www.headfonia.com/making-high-quality-headphones-philips-ilab-belgium/
https://www.headfonia.com/the-golden-ears-training-program-by-philips/


----------



## DAP1MP13

CoupleofBigGulps said:


> I recently picked up a set of the ED16's and I really like them but I'd like to get some Comply tips but i can't find anywhere the right size for them.  I stuffed a pair of foams that came with my Pinnacle PX's over the nozzle but it doesn't seem to fit properly.



I can 100% confirm that these fit the KZ ED16, it's what I have fitted on them currently. It's the T400/500 size. I also have these T500 Complys and they fit as well.

Both foam tips, the ones from AliExpress, and the Complys, fit on the ED16 without having to force them on, they fit just as they should.


----------



## phower

SSandDigital said:


> I bet he sat there staring at numbers and graphs, because that's what a grammy winning producer would do... Right



How did QJ communicate with AKG engineers to tune it? He must have spoken in some language?
What language must it have been? English or German since AKG is in Austria? Must be English I guess since it is common language.
If English, what words would he have used to describe sound? You mean, "Clarity", "soundstage", "thump" or "vocal" or someother audiophile weasel words?
These kind of words don't have a precise definition that it can be used to design a product. The only meaningful nouns are frequency and its level which is FR.

Anyways, InnerFidelity has measured both the Q701 and K701. The only difference is that Q701 has a small bump near 2kHz. How do you think he would have mentioned this to the engineers? Think about it.

PS. I don't visit this thread that much since I have moved on to full size BT headphones.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

mbwilson111 said:


> some people just like to hear themselves talk...





khighly said:


> All of that DSP!





mbwilson111 said:


> ..we better be careful... lol


@audionab you can try today.....its better than your bosshifi B3. Its better than T2 on detail representation(though not neutral, skewed toward bass).

I said child of king pro and final audio and not a Dragonball fusion, it still can't reach the fineness of King pro and lushness of final e5000...


But I am sure its better than AS10.

I listen to full volume and 20ohm adapter did do its work. I should actually not exaggerate from now on. It actually cleaned the treble (not extending, but damping 2kHz and 8kHz significantly) which sorta cleaned the treble transient(cymbal) and vocal distortion (2kHz). Things got less vibraty, more relaxed, which makes me feel asleep(it always happen with my CIEM and 64audio. The moment I hear naturalness and detailed resolution, I tend to fall asleep.)

Soundstage unnatural height decreased and depth perception increased.


Some may thing impedance adapter will ruin the crossover, but it doesn't. Actually we are not putting resistor in crossover but the whole frequency line, changing the graph and then crossing it. So we damped the signal and didn't change the signal.

I use DSP to remove all the peaks, so I can listen to extended time. I used viper Spectrum extension because i thought some sparkle was missing on the top end(10kHz area). Cymbal sounded little bit of lifeless.

The EQ I applied will state more than enough(well eq according to my ear.)

If you see them in inverted, you can guess the frequency response.

Secondly, eq'ing heavily on neutraliser tends to add distortion as it tries to keep the volume same(it will increase mids if we try to decrease bass).

Well, 
Now if you think I am wrong, go and make fun of me.... But try it once.

I promise, you won't be disappointed...

Well, that comment on exaggeration earlier was a joke...


----------



## Slater

phower said:


> PS. I don't visit this thread that much since I have moved on to full size BT headphones.



You going to be getting the Ora graphenes?


----------



## phower

Slater said:


> You going to be getting the Ora graphenes?



I will wait until it hits the market and reviewed.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> You going to be getting the Ora graphenes?



Graphene still screams gimmick in 2018


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Wut? really? I will certainly get PHB then (will replace my on-sale IEMs as workhorse)!



I'd hold off on that until you see a few more reviews - I liked the PHB, but it is no B5+


----------



## Makahl

dhruvmeena96 said:


> @audionab you can try today.....its better than your bosshifi B3. Its better than T2 on detail representation(though not neutral, skewed toward bass).
> 
> I said child of king pro and final audio and not a Dragonball fusion, it still can't reach the fineness of King pro and lushness of final e5000...
> 
> ...



Would you mind to take a picture of your U18 tzar 64 Audio and AS10 side-by-side? By pictures the shape looks rather similar so would be nice to see it.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Graphene still screams gimmick in 2018



Ora is the real deal. The rest are just a coating sprayed onto a standard diaphragm (like mylar). Ora has patented a process where they layer multiple sheets of 100% pure graphene, like how plywood is made.

Let’s put it this way - they are going to be licensing the technology to other companies, for use in all sorts of audio products (from headphones to laptops to cell phones).

The Ora headphone is their 1st one, and no one has heard it yet. Also, the technology is in its infancy, so the long term viability remains to be seen. They are trailblazing, which could turn out good or it could turn out not so good. We’ll find out in a few months when the 1st units ship.

Anyways, the point was that Ora’s graphene is the real deal; every other “graphene driver” can be more accurately described as graphene _enhanced_.


----------



## HAMS

I have zs3, sound great with parametric eq stock sound is not bad, I just fix peak at 5k and 8k also some bass & mid bass reducer. Now on the Tin audio T2, are they comfortable? I worry about fit with that straight nozzles, the iem looks big.


----------



## khighly (Sep 11, 2018)

AS10 have the largest soundstage of any IEM I've used. Close my eyes and everything comes alive. Just like someone else said regarding the AS10's, I'm hearing new things I've heard in songs. There's also this feeling I've never had before where some well recorded kick drums have this airy preciseness with this punchy pleasant movement of air that really fits well.

You could probably EQ some mid peaks out of these and have wonderful IEM's. Pretty good isolation too, probably as good as my IT03's.


----------



## Devodonaldson

khighly said:


> AS10 have the largest soundstage of any IEM I've used. Close my eyes and everything comes alive.


So you now feel like the AS10 has better soundstage than ZS10?


----------



## Devodonaldson

@khighly in your impression you said the ZS10 ha deeper low end, extended higher, and was more airy than the AS10


----------



## khighly

Devodonaldson said:


> So you now feel like the AS10 has better soundstage than ZS10?


I said exactly the opposite of that in my _2hr impression_. I said the ZS6 had better soundstage, but I will need to buy a new pair to actually confirm since I lost one side. Again, those were _2hr impressions._


----------



## Slater (Sep 11, 2018)

I received the ZS4 today.

I am impressed. THIS is what the ZS3 should have sounded like all along! KZ cleaned up the ZS3's issues, and the ZS4 sounds like the ZS3 on steroids.

I am amazed that so much can be bought for so little. And I like the new stock wire, which is the nicest KZ wire yet IMO. It still has the metal memory wire, but it has never bothered me on the ZS3 so it works just fine. The y-split is ridiculously low though (it's like 2" away from my waist)! KZ really needed a chin slider on this cable. It's not a deal breaker though; nothing a keyboard o-ring or braces rubber band can't fix.

The glossy red color is just plain sexy as heck too. It would have been cool to have a red/blue option like the IT01.

KZ even put the Right and Left font right-side up this time too, so no stupid upside-down looking writing. The font is very subdued, and not even really noticeable against the red, so I'm not even going to remove the lettering.

Also, I have not taken them apart yet, but they look like a modders dream. The shell halves come apart just like the ZS3, but more importantly the nozzle appears to come apart exactly in half as well! This means there is easy access to the BA, which could easily be swapped out for something better (like a Knowles). I'm definitely buying a 2nd set during 11.11. I just haven't decided if I'm going to mod them with a Knowles BA or not. It would definitely be easier to do to the ZS4 than the ZS3 though.

If you have an opportunity to pick up a set, definitely do so!

P.S. - KZ has made a revision to the black Starline tips. They are thinner, lighter, and made of softer silicone now. This makes them more comfortable than previous Starlines. The very tip is also shaped differently (at least on the medium size). The very tip of the opening comes to a sharp point (like on Auvios), instead of the previous Starlines that looked like you sanded off the tip of the opening and made it flat. I know that sounds confusing, so I can post a photo if anyone wants to see the difference. Anyways, I don't own any other 2018 KZ models, so I don't know if this change to the black Starline tips is with the ZS4, or if other 2018 models have this new version (ED15, ED16, ES4, ZS10, AS10, etc).


----------



## Lothar101

Slater said:


> I received the ZS4 today.
> 
> I am impressed. THIS is what the ZS3 should have sounded like all along! KZ cleaned up the ZS3's issues, and the ZS4 sounds like the ZS3 on steroids.
> 
> ...



I have 2018 ED16 that came with the old style tips.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> I received the ZS4 today.
> 
> I am impressed. THIS is what the ZS3 should have sounded like all along! KZ cleaned up the ZS3's issues, and the ZS4 sounds like the ZS3 on steroids.
> 
> ...


AS10's come with those soft ones. ZS10's are the hard starlines. They're much more comfortable.


----------



## Slater (Sep 11, 2018)

Lothar101 said:


> I have 2018 ED16 that came with the old style tips.



I wonder if that's why that ebay seller was blowing out the black Starlines cheap (20 pairs for $1). Maybe KZ was trying to get rid of a mountain of old tips, because they had this revised tip in the works?



khighly said:


> AS10's come with those soft ones. ZS10's are the hard starlines. They're much more comfortable.



Agreed, way more comfortable. I wish I could buy a few dozen pairs of the new tips! So soft and comfy!


----------



## skajohyros

Slater said:


> I received the ZS4 today.
> 
> I am impressed. THIS is what the ZS3 should have sounded like all along! KZ cleaned up the ZS3's issues, and the ZS4 sounds like the ZS3 on steroids.
> 
> ...



How does the zs4 compare to zs5v1 and zs6 sound wise, especially the sound stage.
Cheers mate.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> You're not supposed to be buying any new IEMs Coil! Your modded IT01 were supposed to be your end game earphones lol
> I knew you couldn't resist all of the new shiny things for long


Well... actually IT01 is still my all time favourite and no need for new IEMs. 
PHB was already planned buy for workhorse IEM to replace YinJw woodie I`m currently using when working. 
ZS4 was also long planned buy because of fit/looks(red) and modding donor.

Not even dreaming/thinking buying AS10/BA10/ZS10/ZSR/ZS6/ED16 etc. I`m out of KZ hoarding madness for sure and still think ZS5v1 will be my personal top KZ (it just sounds so darn right and good with my gear and slightly modded).


----------



## SiggyFraud

My KZ USB-C cable arrived yesterday. Wanted to check it out with my TRN V80, since I don't have any of my KZs around, but I got confused. The KZ plug has this U/boat shape:

 
And I've no idea how to plug it into the V80s correctly.
Like this:
 
Or like this:


What's really bugging me though, is the fact that the left side is quite loose and the sound cuts every time I move or tilt my head even a little bit. It doesn't happen with the stock cable.
I hope it's a fit issue between the two, and not a QC problem with the cable.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> https://usa.1more.com/blogs/reviews/a-little-light-on-luca-bignardi-and-tuning
> \https://www.headfonia.com/making-high-quality-headphones-philips-ilab-belgium/
> https://www.headfonia.com/the-golden-ears-training-program-by-philips/


I absolutely LOVE what came out of that philips research - The Fidelio X1 I own (custom cable) - absolute sound bliss for my ears and with my gear pairing.


Slater said:


> Ora is the real deal. The *rest are just a coating sprayed onto a standard diaphragm (like mylar)*. Ora has patented a process where they *layer multiple sheets of 100% pure graphene*, like how plywood is made.


I thought IT01 also has multi-layered graphene... ?


Slater said:


> I received the ZS4 today.
> 
> I am impressed. THIS is what the ZS3 should have sounded like all along! KZ cleaned up the ZS3's issues, and the ZS4 sounds like the ZS3 on steroids.
> 
> ...


Nice feedback! Maybe I`ll save my first pair of ZS4 from disassembly-death-for-modding and get more of them.... who knows, I decided to stop-ditch all my other mods and finish only ZS5v1 mod.


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> My KZ USB-C cable arrived yesterday. Wanted to check it out with my TRN V80, since I don't have any of my KZs around, but I got confused. The KZ plug has this U/boat shape:
> 
> And I've no idea how to plug it into the V80s correctly.
> Like this:
> ...



Just line up the L and R letters on the cable with the L and R letters on the IEM.

And as far as it fitting loose, just splay the legs of the pins slightly.





Details here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2204#post-14283695


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> I absolutely LOVE what came out of that philips research - The Fidelio X1 I own (custom cable) - absolute sound bliss for my ears and with my gear pairing.
> 
> I thought IT01 also has multi-layered graphene... ?
> 
> Nice feedback! Maybe I`ll save my first pair of ZS4 from disassembly-death-for-modding and get more of them.... who knows, I decided to stop-ditch all my other mods and finish only ZS5v1 mod.



I will check with Ora for clarification, to see how their technology differs from ibasso’s.

As far as my comment about your end game modding, I was just joking around with you. No need to explain yourself! Believe me, I know all too well the temptations of this hobby


----------



## randomnin

By the way, with all the graphene driver talk I've come to wonder whether any other KZ models than ES4 have been touted in their promo materials as having a graphene DD? And did they really use a different DD for ES4, or is that a marketing department's fluke?


----------



## SiggyFraud

Slater said:


> Just line up the L and R letters on the cable with the L and R letters on the IEM.
> 
> And as far as it fitting loose, just splay the legs of the pins slightly.
> 
> ...



Thanks @Slater . This actually helped with the sound cutting issue too. It was just a poor fit after all.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Slater said:


> I will check with Ora for clarification, to see how their technology differs from ibasso’s.
> 
> As far as my comment about your end game modding, I was just joking around with you. No need to explain yourself! Believe me, I know all too well the temptations of this hobby


I talked on iBasso thread about this....

IBasso didn't replied

Some said it was mylar coated with graphene on both side.
5um mylar is available in market

Some said it was multi layer graphene(which according to researches, only ora has)...

Dont know..


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> Thanks @Slater . This actually helped with the sound cutting issue too. It was just a poor fit after all.



Glad you got it sorted.


----------



## randomnin

How is iBasso IT01 isolation versus ZS3/4? I like the graph of IT01 much better, but I also like isolation. And stuff that costs 10x less than other stuff. That too. Need to get that 11.11 list straight, anyhow.

On a different matter, this part in ES4 descriptions is bull, right?


----------



## audionab

randomnin said:


> How is iBasso IT01 isolation versus ZS3/4? I like the graph of IT01 much better, but I also like isolation. And stuff that costs 10x less than other stuff. That too. Need to get that 11.11 list straight, anyhow.
> 
> On a different matter, this part in ES4 descriptions is bull, right?


mids of es4 are not clean


----------



## Slater (Sep 12, 2018)

randomnin said:


> On a different matter, this part in ES4 descriptions is bull, right?



By bull, what do you mean?

Lots of IEMs and headphones use graphene drivers. They all use a graphene spray coating on top of a normal polymer diaphragm. It’s not a lie, not false advertising. It’s just not pure graphene (Ora is the only one with that process right now).

Basically think of it as laminated wood products (like instruments or furniture). You can have a stringed instrument that is laminated with a thin layer of expensive wood (curly maple, Hawaiian koa, etc) on top a cheaper type of wood. And then you have others that are 100% solid curly maple, koa, etc. There’s pros and cons to each.


----------



## rayliam80

randomnin said:


> How is iBasso IT01 isolation versus ZS3/4? I like the graph of IT01 much better, but I also like isolation. And stuff that costs 10x less than other stuff. That too. Need to get that 11.11 list straight, anyhow.



With the right tip, the ZS3 isolates much better than the IT01. Out of my personal IEM collection, the ZS3 is the most isolating among everything I own. But the timbre and dynamics of the IT01 surpasses it quite easily. If isolation is a big priority, go with the ZS3.


----------



## HungryPanda

KZ ES4 mids are fine with a wide bore tip, with a narrow bore the bass is too strong


----------



## zazaboy (Sep 12, 2018)

guys I finally tuned my kz zs6 with eq and used kz ate foam tips if you  lower the bass a lot they sound much better.. they have still bass but not overpowered it doesnt mess with other frequencies now.. instruments sound really clear and give good synenergy....... they are soo good now with well mastered songs... the soundstage is amazing  like full sized headphone.. its really great now.. btw I use moderate volumes.. at max volume they dont sound good at all.. frequencies mess with each other maybe because they are maybe too bright.. or maybe because I am using a  smartphone as a source..

now my question is can the kz as10 the kz zs6 surpass this.with better mids.. I heard they have lower bass which I prefer to kz zs6.. I am particulary searching for good mids and soundstage.. any suggestion is appreciated..  maybe other iems are better.. but I doubt it.. kz zs6 is really in my top 3 now..


----------



## BrunoC

zazaboy said:


> guys I finally tuned my kz zs6 with eq and used kz ate foam tips if you  lower the bass a lot they sound much better..... they are soo good now with well mastered songs... the soundstage is amazing  like full sized headphone.. its really great now.





zazaboy said:


> guys I finally tuned my kz zs6 with eq and used kz ate foam tips if you  lower the bass a lot they sound much better.. they have still bass but not overpowered it doesnt mess with other frequencies now.. instruments sound really clear and give good synenergy....... they are soo good now with well mastered songs... the soundstage is amazing  like full sized headphone.. its really great now.. btw I use moderate volumes.. at max volume they dont sound good at all.. frequencies mess with each other maybe because they are maybe too bright..
> 
> now my question is can the kz as10 the kz zs6 surpass this.with better mids.. I heard they have lower bass which I prefer to kz zs6.. I am particulary searching for good mids and soundstage.. any suggestion is appreciated..  maybe other iems are better.. but I doubt it.. kz zs6 is really in my top 3 now..



I agree. I use a TRN black cable and comply tips and after listening to countless other KZ's and other chifis, the fact is: Only ZS10 and E-MI c880 may be on par. I must be one of the 32 persons in the world that don't find the ZS6 piercing. The detail and separation still blows me away. It's like being on the first row of the show.

PS: I didn't mod my beautiful black ZS6.


----------



## maxxevv (Sep 12, 2018)

Just received the AS10's a few hours ago and had about 30~40 minutes on them compared to the ZS10's.

Certainly less rolled off in treble and a more forward sounding mid  (comparatively of course).  But on some tracks they have a very feint hint of sibilance which were completely absent on the ZS10s. (But these are tracks with known sibilance issues for earphones that exhibit it.)

It certainly fits my ears better compared to the ZS10, as such its isolation is obviously better (for me) too.

Its less rolled-off treble and prominent bass makes it sound more energetic and also, I didn't have to turn the volume up as high as on the ZS10.

And because of the above, it doesn't sound as laid back nor as " spacious" as the ZS10 either.

These are very early impressions but so far a mixed bag,  though its generally a very good sounding earphone in my books.

Attached are some picts for comparison.


----------



## CoiL

Really weird looking nozzle grill @ AS10.


----------



## neo_styles

BrunoC said:


> I must be one of the 32 persons in the world that don't find the ZS6 piercing. The detail and separation still blows me away. It's like being on the first row of the show.


You're not the only one. I've been reaching for the ZS6 more than any of my other IEMs. Only reason I didn't bring it to work today was the realization that I'd shelved my Porta Pros for months and they were begging for my attention.

The ZS6 also calms down quite a bit with either Complys or Dekoni memory foam tips. The Dekoni are kinda weird since they don't really handle being rolled up the same way Complys are, but it's really easy for me to get a proper seal with them. Seems to have just enough diffusion to tame that sibilance. The DAP you choose will also make a difference. My M0 seems much brighter to my ears on any pair of ear/headphones; the A45 more laid back, which makes the A45 and ZS6 a stellar combo.


----------



## jeromeaparis

HungryPanda said:


> KZ ES4 mids are fine with a wide bore tip, with a narrow bore the bass is too strong


Yes, I agree, I was using too the whirl tips on my ES4 with the stock cable (new twisted cable, copper color)
But when I tried the silver plated KZ cable (same look as stock cable, but "iron grey" color), it did change and inprove the sound a lot, then I had to change back the tips for the stock "starline" otherwise the low would be too thin.
For me, the new KZ silver plated cable is a must with the ES4

they say it is OFC 25 copper cores x4,  pure silver plated 0.214um

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-1...5b1d-4ccf-8899-1c8931664e3e&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## re.on

TheVortex said:


> Just a little haul from AliExpress recently. PHB EM-023 in Green, KZ AS10 black no mic, TRN V80 with mic, TRN cable no mic and new KZ solid case.
> 
> I am impressed with all three so far and I think they all beat my HiSenior B5+in my opinion...........



I have an mmcx issue with PHB EM-023. The right piece is unstable. I tried different cables, but the terminal is too tight and springy I had to push the connectors with force. After several tries, the mmcx from my **** worked, but now it’s stuck and I can’t remove it.


----------



## Slater

re.on said:


> I have an mmcx issue with PHB EM-023. The right piece is unstable. I tried different cables, but the terminal is too tight and springy I had to push the connectors with force. After several tries, the mmcx from my **** worked, but now it’s stuck and I can’t remove it.



This is what you need to remove stubborn MMCX connectors: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11P...-Connector-Pin-Extractor-Kit/32820553714.html

Credit goes to @HungryPanda for turning me onto them.


----------



## re.on

Slater said:


> This is what you need to remove stubborn MMCX connectors: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11P...-Connector-Pin-Extractor-Kit/32820553714.html
> 
> Credit goes to @HungryPanda for turning me onto them.


Thanks! This is my first time on Head-Fi! I have decided to give my PHB earphones to a friend. It’s uncomfortable and for the price, it’s not worth it imo. I’m currently looking for CAD $50-$100 earphones. Any recommendations?


----------



## Slater

re.on said:


> Thanks! This is my first time on Head-Fi! I have decided to give my PHB earphones to a friend. It’s uncomfortable and for the price, it’s not worth it imo. I’m currently looking for CAD $50-$100 earphones. Any recommendations?



Sure, there's some decent stuff in that price range. What kind of sound signature do you prefer? What about musical genres?


----------



## re.on

Slater said:


> Sure, there's some decent stuff in that price range. What kind of sound signature do you prefer? What about musical genres?



Awesome! I mostly listen to funk, jazz, and hip-hop music. I want something that has decent bass, wide soundstage, and clarity on highs and mids (sorry, I’m not sure if I’m using these words to describe a sound signature correctly.)


----------



## RvTrav

re.on said:


> Awesome! I mostly listen to funk, jazz, and hip-hop music. I want something that has decent bass, wide soundstage, and clarity on highs and mids (sorry, I’m not sure if I’m using these words to describe a sound signature correctly.)



I see you are from Calgary.  Visions Audio have the NAD VISO HP20 on sale for $64.00.  I've had these now for about 2 weeks and am quite impressed they have really great bass and good clarity on the highs and mids.  I don't know whether Visions will give you an opportunity to listen to these before purchase or what their return policy is but if you can have an opportunity to try before your buy or return if not satisfied with the sound then I would suggest giving them a try.


----------



## DAP1MP13

Slater said:


> I wonder if that's why that ebay seller was blowing out the black Starlines cheap (20 pairs for $1). Maybe KZ was trying to get rid of a mountain of old tips, because they had this revised tip in the works?
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, way more comfortable. I wish I could buy a few dozen pairs of the new tips! So soft and comfy!



I received my ED16s just two weeks ago, and they came with the old/stiff starline tips, which are junk IMO. Even though I use foam tips on nearly everything I have (using silicone tips with my v80s right now), I would've liked to try these out....

Can you post a photo of the new/softer starlines, please?


----------



## CoiL

re.on said:


> Awesome! I mostly listen to funk, jazz, and hip-hop music. I want something that has decent bass, wide soundstage, and clarity on highs and mids (sorry, I’m not sure if I’m using these words to describe a sound signature correctly.)


Since You said 50-100$... take a look at IT01


----------



## randomnin

Bought Sennheiser CX 2.00G for 30 USD. Of course, no changeable cables and anatomic designs at this price range in the west, unlike with what Chi-Fi treats us. But separation and bass decay on these tiny single DDs is better than KZs I have (don't own the latest flagships like ZS10, AS10, though). The treble sounds is a bit thin, but no roll-off, it's all there. Less sibilance than ES4. Guess I'll have to get some Chinese single dynamics like TFZ or IT01 to compare.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

Hey, new to KZ. I've owned the KZ-ZS10 and I'm very impressed, but wish the bass had more precision.

- What's up with KZ's naming scheme? ZS, BA, AS, what's going on?

- Any guesses on what the ported and unreleased KZ-BA10 is going to sound like?

- Can we confirm if they use genuine Knowles drivers or not?


----------



## re.on

CoiL said:


> Since You said 50-100$... take a look at IT01



I already have IT01, and Kinera Idun is arriving tomorrow (yay!). What else? Should I buy the new KZ BA10? The shape looks uncomfortable.


----------



## re.on

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Hey, new to KZ. I've owned the KZ-ZS10 and I'm very impressed, but wish the bass had more precision.
> 
> - What's up with KZ's naming scheme? ZS, BA, AS, what's going on?
> 
> ...



Hello! I'm new to Head-Fi as well. 
- TBH, I'm curious as well about the meaning behind those abbreviations, but hey KZ means "Knowledge Zenith" and I have no idea what that means lol.
- I saw from one group page that the metal design is for aesthetics purposes only. However, sound resonance can be altered by a material (e.g. plastic, metal shells). 
- I doubt they use Knowles drivers. For the price, I think they are using Bellsing drivers.


----------



## Jenz

re.on said:


> I mostly listen to funk, jazz, and hip-hop music. I want something that has decent bass



The BW VOX1 from Blitzwolf is still a good budget option.


----------



## Slater

fuzzybabybunny said:


> - Can we confirm if they use genuine Knowles drivers or not?



KZ uses Bellsing BA drivers, not Knowles.


----------



## crabdog

It came. I tested. it pleased. The KZ AS10 review is now live on PAR. Enjoy.
https://primeaudio.org/kz-as10-review/


----------



## groucho69

RvTrav said:


> I see you are from Calgary.  Visions Audio have the NAD VISO HP20 on sale for $64.00.  I've had these now for about 2 weeks and am quite impressed they have really great bass and good clarity on the highs and mids.  I don't know whether Visions will give you an opportunity to listen to these before purchase or what their return policy is but if you can have an opportunity to try before your buy or return if not satisfied with the sound then I would suggest giving them a try.



+1 for HP20


----------



## pbui44

Wow, with the ZSA/Audeze-Cypher combo with the app EQ, I finally found harshness, which was on Haley Reinhart’s cover of “Can’t Help Falling in Love”.  Her vocals were fine, but the “d**n sound engineer fell asleep”, because her highs were not reattenuated.  Oh well, not all sound engineers are created equal, but I am saying that with $15 KZs on my ears.


----------



## JayceOoi

For those interested in KZ AS10, GearBest is selling it at $47.59 now. 
https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009119292742.html


----------



## maxxevv

JayceOoi said:


> For those interested in KZ AS10, GearBest is selling it at $47.59 now.
> https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009119292742.html



I got it off the last Aliexpress sale ( after stacking discounts and coupons )  for US$41.29.  And shipping was free too. It took 16 days to arrive. Some orders I took from Gearbest earlier than the sale hasn't been delivered yet !


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> I got it off the last Aliexpress sale ( after stacking discounts and coupons )  for US$41.29.  And shipping was free too. It took 16 days to arrive. Some orders I took from Gearbest earlier than the sale hasn't been delivered yet !



Doesn’t surprise me it’s taking that long, assuming they used NLPost (Netherlands). You could walk to China with your shoelaces tied together and just get it yourself faster than NLPost delivers!


----------



## HungryPanda

Slater said:


> Doesn’t surprise me it’s taking that long, assuming they used NLPost (Netherlands). You could walk to China with your shoelaces tied together and just get it yourself faster than NLPost delivers!


 Maybe cycle not walk


----------



## khighly

AS10 have astounding isolation with the stock starlines. This morning taking the bus to work I could not hear the bus at all only one notch up from the very bottom of my phone volume, I could only feel it. They even beat my IT03's in Isolation. These are definitely worth $47, and is a totally different offering from KZ I feel.


----------



## FastAndClean

khighly said:


> AS10 have astounding isolation with the stock starlines. This morning taking the bus to work I could not hear the bus at all only one notch up from the very bottom of my phone volume, I could only feel it. They even beat my IT03's in Isolation. These are definitely worth $47, and is a totally different offering from KZ I feel.


now is time for the new BA10


----------



## khighly

FastAndClean said:


> now is time for the new BA10



Not an Iron Man fan, personally


----------



## bhazard

khighly said:


> AS10 have astounding isolation with the stock starlines. This morning taking the bus to work I could not hear the bus at all only one notch up from the very bottom of my phone volume, I could only feel it. They even beat my IT03's in Isolation. These are definitely worth $47, and is a totally different offering from KZ I feel.



I agree with this. I have to turn these way down while walking around in NYC because I can't hear a thing with them in. The AS10 only needs minor EQ to sound like it belongs in the $200 range. I stopped listening to my other KZ's, as these are superior.

I've been looking to get rid of my ZS10 if anyone wants it cheap. Under $20 KZ's get donated to veterans or Skullcandy users.


----------



## Makahl

Makahl said:


> Would you mind to take a picture of your U18 tzar 64 Audio and AS10 side-by-side? By pictures the shape looks rather similar so would be nice to see it.



Damn... no answer? Maybe he... nvm.


----------



## zazaboy (Sep 14, 2018)

@bhazard hi bro is it better the ncehck hk6 can you compare it to your kz as10... I am really curious how your impressions are... if its better then my kz zs6.. I will go for this headphone ...  how is the soundstage and instruments sound like... especially the mids... is bass overpowering other frequencies.. and which eq did you use especially which frequencies.. thanks


----------



## khighly

zazaboy said:


> @bhazard hi bro is it better the ncehck hk6 can you compare it to your kz as10... I am really curious how your impressions are... if its better then my kz zs6.. I will go for this headphone ...  how is the soundstage and instruments sound like... especially the mids... is bass overpowering other frequencies.. and which eq did you use especially which frequencies.. thanks


It's totally different than the ZS6. It doesn't have those screaming highs, it has a very beefy mid bass that really presents itself, similar soundstage if not larger, much better isolation. They're two totally different beasts.


----------



## allaces305

bhazard I would love to buy them..I PM you.


----------



## audionab

did anyone here used kz zs4 extensively?
how is its SQ and isolation if it has good isolation then it means it may have good sub-bass right?


----------



## neo_styles

Well...I bit and finally got the AS10, even though I need another pair of IEMs like I need another hole in my head.

Fwiw, the AE seller that's letting them go for 47-ish bucks also has a $3 coupon, so my order ended up just under 45. Price-wise, that puts it right in line with what I paid for the ZS6. Should be a fun comparison.


----------



## Mellowship

Just hopped again on the kz train after several months (maybe a year...) without buying anything. 


 

4.2 bt cable and usb-c cable.

Of course I had to take the memory wires off. 

The bt is... Ok... It plays loud and holds the distance well. My phone doesn't do aptx (Kirin processor), and I read some bad reviews about the new bt cable from kz, so I got the old one. Treble is a little bit rolled off, but it's quite pleasant. 

As for the type-c cable... If you hava a device with it, grab one! 
It really does 142khz. Great micro DAC. Great sound. Unbelievable that it only costs 7 or 8 EUR. 

Waiting for my ZS4 now...


----------



## neo_styles

audionab said:


> did anyone here used kz zs4 extensively?
> how is its SQ and isolation if it has good isolation then it means it may have good sub-bass right?


Sub-bass is pretty cavernous. My coworker ended up buying mine off me after I lent him those and the ED16 and I've still got a little regret over letting him take the ES4 away from me.

Isolation is so-so, even if you get a good seal. Certainly not the worst, but not quite as impressive as a pair that's fully sealed. Nothing to really complain about there, either.

In terms of SQ, I'd say it's probably the most coherent pair of the KZs I've used to date. In a sense, it's considerably "polite" in that it possesses energy, but not to the extent that it massively overemphasizes any one part of the frequency range. I consider it a happy compromise between the ED16 and ZS6 where the former brings the top-end up just a hair more and the ZS6 even more so, but has such a sweet soundstage that it doesn't bother me. Going back and forth between the ZS6 and ES4, though, takes a good amount of adjustment time. Definitely two different animals, in my opinion.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Finally got ED9. Took me long enough I know, but It was just a matter of where it fell on the depth chart and when the money would be appropriated for them.  @Slater Have you ever takin these apart? 
I wonder if it would be possible to recable them? Would love to use some of that Marley cable that @mbwilson111 used on some of her buds.


----------



## mosz

Got the ZSA and the cable connection was L shaped
month later
Got the USB C cable for ZSA and the connection is straight like with the ZS3/4/5/6

so.. what's the deal ? I could have ordered the L shaped USB C cable and it would also fit ?


----------



## nxnje

BadReligionPunk said:


> Finally got ED9. Took me long enough I know, but It was just a matter of where it fell on the depth chart and when the money would be appropriated for them.  @Slater Have you ever takin these apart?
> I wonder if it would be possible to recable them? Would love to use some of that Marley cable that @mbwilson111 used on some of her buds.



I got my ed9 last week
As i'm a lucky person it was a faulty unit.
Ordered ED9 --> faulty
Ordered trn v80 --> faulty

I think i am an unlucky guy, combined with chi fi bad quality control, the result is maybe i should stop buying chi fi.

Anyway, my ed9 have the right earbud that sounds at a lower volume than the left earbud 
So i can't listen to them with pleasure and share opinions, but what i can say is that they need a little burn-in at the beginning.
Treble region is too sharp imho.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Sub-bass is pretty cavernous. My coworker ended up buying mine off me after I lent him those and the ED16 and I've still got a little regret over letting him take the ES4 away from me.
> 
> Isolation is so-so, even if you get a good seal. Certainly not the worst, but not quite as impressive as a pair that's fully sealed. Nothing to really complain about there, either.
> 
> In terms of SQ, I'd say it's probably the most coherent pair of the KZs I've used to date. In a sense, it's considerably "polite" in that it possesses energy, but not to the extent that it massively overemphasizes any one part of the frequency range. I consider it a happy compromise between the ED16 and ZS6 where the former brings the top-end up just a hair more and the ZS6 even more so, but has such a sweet soundstage that it doesn't bother me. Going back and forth between the ZS6 and ES4, though, takes a good amount of adjustment time. Definitely two different animals, in my opinion.



Wait, you talking about the ZS4 or the ES4?


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Finally got ED9. Took me long enough I know, but It was just a matter of where it fell on the depth chart and when the money would be appropriated for them.  @Slater Have you ever takin these apart?
> I wonder if it would be possible to recable them? Would love to use some of that Marley cable that @mbwilson111 used on some of her buds.



I have taken the back plates off numerous pairs, which allows you to see the cable. But I have not taken them completely apart to where the driver is exposed for recabling.


----------



## Viber

I dont know if anyone posted this, but the new KZ BA10 is already available on GearBest and AliExpress


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I have taken the back plates off numerous pairs, which allows you to see the cable. But I have not taken them completely apart to where the driver is exposed for recabling.


I was just wondering if it was doable. The ED9 is by far and away my favorite KZ I have heard. The cable just sucks. Would pay triple the price If KZ would just use a slightly better cable.


----------



## nxnje

BadReligionPunk said:


> I was just wondering if it was doable. The ED9 is by far and away my favorite KZ I have heard. The cable just sucks. Would pay triple the price If KZ would just use a slightly better cable.


I know my opinion is "impopular" but even if my ed9 are faulty, i like ED9 cable, sure better than the horrible ZS3 detachable one.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

nxnje said:


> I got my ed9 last week
> As i'm a lucky person it was a faulty unit.
> Ordered ED9 --> faulty
> Ordered trn v80 --> faulty
> ...



Yup I was worried about the treble too. Heard lots of people talking about the sizzle. Good or bad, my 42 year old punk rock musician ears have had enough of a treble roll off that these are pretty nice. Not close to the sizzle that ZSA has, and apparently ZS6.  Anyway I like both nozzles equally for different genres, but am sticking with the gold/red bass tube KZ tips(I love those tips), for hip hop, reggae, dancehall and other bass heavy genres. Bass quality punches way above it price and the quantity is there in full force. Without EQ I could feel rumble in my ears. With EQ I was shocked at how much these could take before it became messy. 

Fun stuff.

EDR1 at $3
ED9 at $10

Could have stopped after that and saved a bunch of money.

But what fun is that? LOL


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I was just wondering if it was doable. The ED9 is by far and away my favorite KZ I have heard. The cable just sucks. Would pay triple the price If KZ would just use a slightly better cable.



Know anyone with a defective ED9? If I had a pair sent to me, I could do a more destructive tear down to learn how it’s assembled. I have a pretty good hunch, but I don’t want to risk damaging my perfectly good pair just to find out.


----------



## nxnje

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yup I was worried about the treble too. Heard lots of people talking about the sizzle. Good or bad, my 42 year old punk rock musician ears have had enough of a treble roll off that these are pretty nice. Not close to the sizzle that ZSA has, and apparently ZS6.  Anyway I like both nozzles equally for different genres, but am sticking with the gold/red bass tube KZ tips(I love those tips), for hip hop, reggae, dancehall and other bass heavy genres. Bass quality punches way above it price and the quantity is there in full force. Without EQ I could feel rumble in my ears. With EQ I was shocked at how much these could take before it became messy.
> 
> Fun stuff.
> 
> ...



Ye i can confirm ed9 would be a great daily driver if mine were working well.. but i'm unlucky.
The bassy filter is actually awesome and i prefer it over the "bass-shy" one.
I'm really curious about how do they work if unmounting them and assembling them in a different way maybe it could be more 2 combinations like our guru @Slater say.



Slater said:


> Know anyone with a defective ED9? If I had a pair sent to me, I could do a more destructive tear down to learn how it’s assembled. I have a pretty good hunch, but I don’t want to risk damaging my perfectly good pair just to find out.


I have a defective one that has a lower volume. I would have sent it to you but shipping costs more than a new pair.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Know anyone with a defective ED9? If I had a pair sent to me, I could do a more destructive tear down to learn how it’s assembled. I have a pretty good hunch, but I don’t want to risk damaging my perfectly good pair just to find out.


I know some dude in Italy with a defective pair.  Post would probably cost more then just ordering one.  Lol
Maybe on 11/11 I will order a few,  to mess around with.  I'm actually having heart palpitations thinking of my black ed9 with a nice rasta cloth wire. The ed9 is an actually slick looking earphone. It could definitely use a better quality cable. 
The rubber stuff is just to sticky and gummy.  Turn my head and the rubber sticks to something and tugs on my ears.


----------



## dpsbz

Hi do any of the newer Bluetooth compatible breed of KZ’s have a similar signature to the ED9 , as they’ve been my favourite IEM for a while now but want something without a cable


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Wait, you talking about the ZS4 or the ES4?


Oops ES4. My apologies.


----------



## randomnin

I'm perplexed, should I get ZS10 or AS10? I like the reviews the former has, but there's also that unfixable zigzag treble in all of the available graphs. The latter's graph is much cleaner, but I don't know whether its imaging and channel balance is up to par. Could anyone enlighten me as to these qualities in AS10? I think audiocheck.net had a channel balance test - are there no glaring issues for AS10 with it?


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

1. On the subject of cheap audiophile gear, what cheap DAC would you guys recommend? Are there any Chi-Fi DACs that have a huge following among audiophiles?

2. I've got the ZS10 and I'm also wondering whether or not to move to the AS10 or the BA10. I enjoy the ZS10 but:

- I have to tone down the 2kHz and 4kHz frequencies a tad because otherwise it's too bright.
- I wish the ZS10 had more precise bass. 

How is the brightness of the AS10 compared to the ZS10 and how about the bass?

3. Is the BA10 supposed to just be a cosmetic change to the AS10? is it using the same five BA drivers as the AS10?


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Oops ES4. My apologies.



You may want to go back and tell @audionab so he doesn't get confused.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2422#post-14485676

I should be able to answer his original ZS4 question, once I'm comfortable with a few more days of ZS4 listening time.


----------



## SSandDigital (Sep 16, 2018)

Was hoping there would be bunch of BA10 impressions and comparisons to the BGVP DMG/BQEYZ BQ3.

Also really hoping KZ releases a matte all black BA10.  These red/gold colors are ugly.


----------



## Devodonaldson

fuzzybabybunny said:


> 1. On the subject of cheap audiophile gear, what cheap DAC would you guys recommend? Are there any Chi-Fi DACs that have a huge following among audiophiles?
> 
> 2. I've got the ZS10 and I'm also wondering whether or not to move to the AS10 or the BA10. I enjoy the ZS10 but:
> 
> ...


Comply foam tips tone down that treble just enough


----------



## JayceOoi

FYI, latest KZ BTE @ $9.99 only for first 30 units daily (9.00am UTC) from 17 to 23 Sept.
https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-KZ-BTE-Earphone-special-3463.html


----------



## Slater

JayceOoi said:


> FYI, latest KZ BTE @ $9.99 only for first 30 units daily (9.00am UTC) from 17 to 23 Sept.
> https://www.gearbest.com/promotion-KZ-BTE-Earphone-special-3463.html



That ZS10 for $29.99 is a great deal!


----------



## audionab

@Slater can you comment on isolation of zs4 and hopefully its sub-bass
or maybe how they basically feel in your ears


----------



## zazaboy

@Slater kz as10 is cheap too aswell


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2018)

audionab said:


> @Slater can you comment on isolation of zs4 and hopefully its sub-bass
> or maybe how they basically feel in your ears



Awesome isolation. They are the next best thing to wearing earplugs. I have used them to mow the lawn with loud gas powered tools, and I can hear my ZS4 music perfectly. I can drive in the car with both windows rolled down and my passenger listening to music on my car stereo, and all I can hear is my ZS4 music. They basically isolate you in your own world of music. That can be good and bad though. I wouldn’t recommend them if you need to hear anything around you (car horns, sirens, etc). And you definitely won’t hear anyone talking to you, even if your music is low. If you’re wearing the ZS4, and pause the music to speak to someone, you still have to put your ear quite close to hear them (or else remove 1 of the ZS4 ear pieces).

The only down side to the extreme isolation is if you really insert them deeply you risk a suction-like effect and the music sounds muffled. The ZS3 suffered from the same thing. It doesn’t happen all of the time though, and when it does all you do is adjust the earpiece fit and you’re good. Or tinker with different tips, or just don’t insert it super deeply.

The comfort (for me) is superb. It fits exactly like the ZS3 if you have that. I can wear them all day with no soreness. They are my most comfortable and best fitting IEMs. It does vary though, as others have said it doesn't for them. Although I think some of them are just situating them in their ear incorrectly. I've seen people orient behind-the-ear IEMs in some totally odd way, then claim the IEMs fit terribly.

The sub bass extends deep, hits hard, and the sub bass and bass is very clean and seems quite fast. If you want a club experience, listen to EDM or similar bass heavy genres (rap, dubstep, trap, etc) the ZS4 will put a smile on your face.

It’s well worth $12. And the cable is great (the y split is super low, but it is low on all KZ upgrade cables).

On a side note, the TRN BT10 cable came yesterday, which I like a LOT. And it fits the ZS3 perfectly! The ZS4 volume with the BT10 is reduced some though (and the sound gets degraded slightly). I just don’t know yet if that’s due to the cable or the ZS4 itself.

The ZS*3* was power hungry, and had a similar degradation when the KZ Bluetooth cable was used. And that turned out to be the cable just not being able to provide enough power or maybe an impedance thing.

I just need more time with the BT10 and other IEMs to figure it all out.


----------



## audionab

Slater said:


> Awesome isolation. They are the next best thing to wearing earplugs. I have used them to mow the lawn with loud gas powered tools, and I can hear my ZS4 music perfectly. I can drive in the car with both windows rolled down and my passenger listening to music on my car stereo, and all I can hear is my ZS4 music. If you’re wearing the ZS4, and pause the music to speak to someone, you have to get your ear quite close to hear them (or else pop out 1 of the ear pieces).
> 
> The only down side to the extreme isolation is if you really insert them deeply you risk a suction-like effect and the music sounds muffled. The ZS3 suffered from the same thing. It doesn’t happen all of the time though, and when it does all you do is adjust the earpiece fit and you’re good. Or tinker with different tips, or just don’t insert it super deeply.
> 
> ...


thank you
i will now pull the trigger on zs4 now


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2018)

audionab said:


> thank you
> i will now pull the trigger on zs4 now



I think you’ll be very happy with the paltry $12 investment.

Unless you’re one of those people who are unhappy with any ChiFi that doesn’t have forward midrange. The ZS4 is v shaped, just like the ZS3. The star is the low end. If you liked the ZS3, but were disappointed by the shortcomings of the ZS3 (bloat, meh treble, etc), the ZS4 fixes all that, and makes the ZS3 obsolete.

The ZS4 is a perfect example of KZ making significant and legitimate improvements between models. Unlike the EDR1 to EDR1, or the ZS1 to ZS2. Both of those successors were worse than their predecessors - a step back not a step forward.


----------



## audionab

Slater said:


> I think you’ll be very happy with the paltry $13 investment.
> 
> Unless you’re one of those people who are unhappy with any ChiFi that doesn’t have forward midrange. The ZS4 is v shaped, just like the ZS3. The star is the low end. If you liked the ZS3, but were disappointed by the shortcomings of the ZS3 (bloat, meh treble, etc), the ZS4 fixes all that, and makes the ZS3 obsolete.
> 
> It’s a perfect example of KZ making legitimate improvements between models. Unlike the EDR1 to EDR1, or the ZS1 to ZS2. Both of those successors were worse - a step back not a step forward.


i needed a cheap iem to relegate my bosshifi b3 to home use only for extending its life and also i wanted a change in signature because i was missing that sub bass and isolation which b3 fails to give me


----------



## Slater

zazaboy said:


> @Slater kz as10 is cheap too aswell



I did see that.

Although I have no interest in the AS10, it is really nice to see GearBest stepping up to the plate with some nice discounts this time around. They have been sorely lacking in that area for the last year.


----------



## Slater

audionab said:


> i needed a cheap iem to relegate my bosshifi b3 to home use only for extending its life and also i wanted a change in signature because i was missing that sub bass and isolation which b3 fails to give me



It will be a change in signature for sure. The B3 has more midrange presence than the ZS4 (its tuning is flatter than the ZS4), and as you said the sub bass is lacking.

They are both great IEMs, but for different reasons.


----------



## maxxevv (Sep 17, 2018)

audionab said:


> @Slater can you comment on isolation of zs4 and hopefully its sub-bass
> or maybe how they basically feel in your ears



If you're willing to go a little higher in the price bracket,  the AS10's isolation is superb too. I'm still waiting for my ZS4 to come in from Gearbest to compare.
But as it is, on the train, I running my AS10's at 20/75 volume. I need to run my ZS10 at 34/75 to get equivalent levels of background isolation with the same music tracks.

Not forgetting, the sound quality from the AS10 is to my ears better than the ZS6. Its a split between it and the ZS10 mainly because the signatures are a little different. The ZS10 being a more laid back tuning with a more rolled off treble.

Addendum: Do wait for the Aliexpress sales if you're keen on the AS10. I paid just slightly more than US$41/- for mine at the last sale just last month. Its current prices are still inflated in my opinion.


----------



## audionab

maxxevv said:


> If you're willing to go a little higher in the price bracket,  the AS10's isolation is superb too. I'm still waiting for my ZS4 to come in from Gearbest to compare.
> But as it is, on the train, I running my AS10's at 20/75 volume. I need to run my ZS10 at 34/75 to get equivalent levels of background isolation with the same music tracks.
> 
> Not forgetting, the sound quality from the AS10 is to my ears better than the ZS6. Its a split between it and the ZS10 mainly because the signatures are a little different. The ZS10 being a more laid back tuning with a more rolled off treble.


a little? 
lol
from 12.5$ to say 50$
thats not little 
i know that as10 has far superior SQ but i am fully satisfied with my bosshifi b3


----------



## maxxevv

audionab said:


> a little?
> lol
> from 12.5$ to say 50$



As with the Tin Audio T2, which can be bought for as little as US$30/+ ( paid just under US$29 for mine when it can list for as much as US$49/-), the AS10 can be found with the right sales and discounts right about the US$40~42 mark. It will probably drop below that as the market get's more saturated with supply. 

But as Slater mentioned, the ZS4 is probably worth more than its US$12~14 price tag.  I'm still waiting for mine to come in.


----------



## neo_styles (Sep 17, 2018)

Slater said:


> On a side note, the TRN BT10 cable came yesterday, which I like a LOT. And it fits the ZS3 perfectly! The ZS4 volume with the BT10 is reduced some though (and the sound gets degraded slightly). I just don’t know yet if that’s due to the cable or the ZS4 itself.


Aside from the different neckband, is there anything about the BT10 that warrants upgrading from the BT3?

Also noticed Massdrop went live with the T2 Pro today. Drop price is 50 USD, but ship date won't be until the end of October. For some reason, I just can't get past the MMCX connectors. Lost my M300 from a connection that degraded within a month and it's stung me ever since.

Seems someone already posted up a review comparing it against the standard T2:
http://www.antdroid.net/2018/09/tin-audio-t2-pro-exclusive-first-look.html


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Aside from the different neckband, is there anything about the BT10 that warrants upgrading from the BT3?



Not that I can really tell. It pretty much boils down to a different neckband style.

I guess it would be worth buying if you need aptX, and you only have the non-aptX version of the BT3. Or if you are in the market for a good BT cable (like if all you had was the crap KZ ones).


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I can drive in the car with both windows rolled down and my passenger listening to music on my car stereo, and all I can hear is my ZS4 music



Please don't do this.  Be safe. You and your passenger.


----------



## Phantomize

maxxevv said:


> As with the Tin Audio T2, which can be bought for as little as US$30/+ ( paid just under US$29 for mine when it can list for as much as US$49/-), the AS10 can be found with the right sales and discounts right about the US$40~42 mark. It will probably drop below that as the market get's more saturated with supply.
> 
> But as Slater mentioned, the ZS4 is probably worth more than its US$12~14 price tag.  I'm still waiting for mine to come in.



Where did you get the Tin Audio T2 at that price?


----------



## Slater (Sep 17, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Please don't do this.  Be safe. You and your passenger.



It was only to perform an isolation test. I don’t normally do that 

Heck, I don’t even use IEMs when cycling anymore! Not worth dying over - I can’t enjoy my music if I’m 6 feet under lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

Do the robot...​


----------



## neo_styles

B9Scrambler said:


> Do the robot...​


Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## C2thew (Sep 17, 2018)

So the zs4s came in and I'm with slater on the initial thoughts.  Wow the trebles are just a tad bit more forward then the zs3s and make the ZS4's have a little more depth/separation. The bass on the other hand compared to the zs3s is almost like a 20% boost over the zs3s.  It really does have the oomph now which was something i wasn't expecting. 

song example: 

I too need a few more days to further analyze them but an analogy to the zs3s and the zs4s is this: the zs3s would be a well toned athletic person at the gym and the zs4s would be a body builder hitting the bench press.  Definitely satisfied with the ZS4's and it is a really solid step for KZ.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

B9Scrambler said:


> Do the robot...​



Would you also happen to have the AS10 and ZS10 to compare them to?


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> I too need a few more days to further analyze them but an analogy to the zs3s and the zs4s is this: the zs3s would be a well toned athletic person at the gym and the zs4s would be a body builder hitting the bench press.



My analogy was the ZS4 = the ZS3 ripped on steroids.

Pretty much sums up your thoughts too!

Anyone who absolutely hated the ZS3 (fit, sound, bass, etc) probably won't like the ZS4 because when you hear it you can tell it was bred from ZS3 DNA.

But if you are one of the people that _really_ _wanted_ to like the ZS3, but just wished KZ had retuned it with that little extra ummph, then you'll like the ZS4.

The ZS4 is the ZS3 we DESERVED 

I mean, for $12, it's a whole lotta IEM bang for the buck!


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> My analogy was the ZS4 = the ZS3 ripped on steroids.
> 
> Pretty much sums up your thoughts too!
> 
> ...



Would you consider it superior to ZST foam modded? My ZST's left side has this driver flex issue which whenever I try to insert it I need to waste ~20secs to find the sweet spot, otherwise, there's no bass at all. It's extremely annoying. But ZST is my best KZ that works decently with the KZ BT module.


----------



## B9Scrambler

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Would you also happen to have the AS10 and ZS10 to compare them to?



Indeed I would.


----------



## maxxevv

Phantomize said:


> Where did you get the Tin Audio T2 at that price?


It was during the sales in March. 
Attached are the screen shots of the sales record. 

 

With combined purchases and discounts as well as discounts. I had a US$13/- discount for a US$88/- purchase. 
Divided evenly, its a US$4.30/- discount over the US$32/-  price of the T2. 

Not that hard. But you need to spend good time going through all the possible permutations of discounts and coupons to maximise the savings.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

B9Scrambler said:


> Indeed I would.



Awesome! Really looking forward to reading your impressions. I need to buy some thank-you gifts for people and I think the ZS10, AS10, or BA10 would be excellent options.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Would you consider it superior to ZST foam modded? My ZST's left side has this driver flex issue which whenever I try to insert it I need to waste ~20secs to find the sweet spot, otherwise, there's no bass at all. It's extremely annoying. But ZST is my best KZ that works decently with the KZ BT module.



I do consider it quite superior to the ZST.

However, I have found the same thing as you - that the ZST is the best KZ for the KZ BT module. It sounds so good you'd swear it's wired. However, when the KZ BT module is used on other KZs, like the ZS3 or ZS4, there is a noticeable reduction in quality and volume.

Because of that reason, if you got the ZS4 and tried using it with the BT cable I think you'd be disappointed. In fact, the ZS4 (and ZS3) sounds better when powered by an amp. And the BT module just can't deliver that much power, which is obviously why it doesn't sound that great.

Therefore, only get the ZS4 if you plan to use it wired (and even better, with an amp). Otherwise, if you're looking for something to use with the KZ BT cable, I would probably just buy another ZST.


----------



## Zerohour88

fuzzybabybunny said:


> 1. On the subject of cheap audiophile gear, what cheap DAC would you guys recommend? Are there any Chi-Fi DACs that have a huge following among audiophiles?



depends on your definition of cheap. I got these Weiliang/Breeze Audio SE4 DAC for like usd$35 (ES9028Q2M, SA9226), more or less plug and play on phone (Win7 needed a driver that the seller provided on the page). Lots of power (blows my ears out with the TO180 earbuds even at 10% volume), clean sound (no hissing with multi-BA IEMs), supports DSD supposedly.

Or you could get the more reviewed models like SMSL Idea/Sabaj DA2, Fiio Q1MkII.

links to get you started on the search:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152638.0

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/digital-audio-converters-dacs.10/


pics of my SE4


----------



## CoiL

So... ZS4 needs to be modded with midrange BA ...or ...bass & treble tuned down to sound more balanced/more mids presence? ;P


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> Please don't do this.  Be safe. You and your passenger.


So, I thoroughly understand the issue people have with individuals driving wearing headphones. They can't hear other vehicles, etc. Neither can deaf drivers. Is it about possibly being distracted, then?


----------



## CoiL (Sep 18, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Please don't do this.  Be safe. You and your passenger.





Devodonaldson said:


> So, I thoroughly understand the issue people have with individuals driving wearing headphones. They can't hear other vehicles, etc. Neither can deaf drivers. Is it about possibly being distracted, then?


Unfortunatey, ppl don`t use mirrors enough to observe traffic around them and don`t look ahead for possible dangerous situations.
I use IEMs while driving all the time and can`t really see difference with ppl turning their stereo system loud (also can`t hear much) but they still do drive (a LOT of ppl do that and even dancing/singing behind wheel!).
IMHO, it`s all about driving skills (mirrors,observing, proper speed etc.) and adequate behaviour behind wheel 
Also, imho, most dangerous drivers are SMOKERS, SMARTPHONE & CONSOLE USERS!
With latter ones ppl lose contact/eyesight with traffic competely for seconds while I with my IEMs still have eyes 100% on the road/traffic/mirros with both hands on wheel!
Ps, I don`t change tracks, playlist etc. while driving - just put it on play before moving and stop when my car is parked and off.


----------



## mbwilson111

Devodonaldson said:


> So, I thoroughly understand the issue people have with individuals driving wearing headphones. They can't hear other vehicles, etc. Neither can deaf drivers. Is it about possibly being distracted, then?



My uncle is deaf and he drives.  Deaf people have learned to compensate.   Being distracted is a big issue.  I personally get lost in  my music.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> So... ZS4 needs to be modded with midrange BA ...or ...bass & treble tuned down to sound more balanced/more mids presence? ;P



Yes, it’s got a deep v. If mids were brought forward more it would be awesome.


----------



## Slater (Sep 18, 2018)

fuzzybabybunny said:


> 1. On the subject of cheap audiophile gear, what cheap DAC would you guys recommend? Are there any Chi-Fi DACs that have a huge following among audiophiles?



There’s a whole thread dedicated to inexpensive and obscure ChiFi daps. You’ll have to search to find it. It has a tremendous wealth of information. And  there is a fanatical following to DAPs in that category, with people who have lots of experience with those players, including people who collect them like we collect ChiFi IEMs.

At the time I used to read the thread,  the most popular ‘cheap’ DAPs were the Benjie S5, an AGPtek version of the same player (I don’t remember the exact model number, but AGPtek is only on Amazon), and the ruizu A50.

However, I’m going by memory, and there could be better/more popular ‘cheap DAPs’ out now. So take the above list with a grain of salt.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> There’s a whole thread dedicated to inexpensive and obscure ChiFi daps. You’ll have to search to find it. It has a tremendous wealth of information. And  there is a fanatical following to DAPs in that category, with people who have lots of experience with those players, including people who collect them like we collect ChiFi IEMs.
> 
> At the time I used to read the thread,  the most popular ‘cheap’ DAPs were the Benjie S5, an AGPtek version of the same player (I don’t remember the exact model number, but AGPtek is only on Amazon), and the ruizu A50.
> 
> However, I’m going by memory, and there could be better/more popular ‘cheap DAPs’ out now. So take the above list with a grain of salt.



Agptek m20
My gf bought it to me for 25€ on amazon (i know it costs like 10 less euros on other stores but it was birthday gift) and i have to say i'm impressed.
Little, solid, well built, good sound. I can't go out without it nowadays.
I even prefer listening to music with that than listening through my presonus audiobox usb audio interface.

Honestly i think that player deserves so much more attention than how much it actually has.
Great pairing with my (broken) trn v80 and memt x5, and the included earbuds are impressive too.

Anyway there's a thread about it where u can find similar products like many other Benjie products (and rebranded agptek ones), ruizu products and even other cheapos like the walnut v2 which is very vintage and solid. 
I think i'm gonna put my money on it one day.


----------



## audionab

CoiL said:


> So... ZS4 needs to be modded with midrange BA ...or ...bass & treble tuned down to sound more balanced/more mids presence? ;P


a knowles midrange driver would be great 
do let me know which BA will you use probably i will also try my hands on some modding


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> There’s a whole thread dedicated to inexpensive and obscure ChiFi daps. You’ll have to search to find it. It has a tremendous wealth of information. And  there is a fanatical following to DAPs in that category, with people who have lots of experience with those players, including people who collect them like we collect ChiFi IEMs.
> 
> At the time I used to read the thread,  the most popular ‘cheap’ DAPs were the Benjie S5, an AGPtek version of the same player (I don’t remember the exact model number, but AGPtek is only on Amazon), and the ruizu A50.
> 
> However, I’m going by memory, and there could be better/more popular ‘cheap DAPs’ out now. So take the above list with a grain of salt.



Of those I only have the little Ruizu A50.. very pocketable but not without its quirks. It has  its own thread if you are interested. One thing to double check with a cheaper player is whether or not it has gapless play... it that is important to you.  It is to me as I have many albums that require seamless play where one track just flows into the next. I do not put this type of album on my Ruizu.

If you mainly listen to songs rather than albums or to albums that are made up of individual songs then gapless will not be important.   Most of the cheaper players do not have gapless play but I believe a few do.  Another thing to watch for is if users are reporting a clicking noise between tracks.  Some players have that problem.


----------



## tuanathon

Curious if anyone has compared the es4 and the zs4?


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> That ZS10 for $29.99 is a great deal!


Am I missing the $9.99 BTE every day? I don't see it when I get into work, only $19.99.


----------



## Asymptote123 (Sep 18, 2018)

Phantomize said:


> Where did you get the Tin Audio T2 at that price?



I recently got Tin Audio T2 for approx $ 32.5 USD.

I stacked a couple of Aliexpress coupons and a discount code mentioned on this website-

https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/tin-audio-t2-review-2446


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Not that I can really tell. It pretty much boils down to a different neckband style.
> 
> I guess it would be worth buying if you need aptX, and you only have the non-aptX version of the BT3. Or if you are in the market for a good BT cable (like if all you had was the crap KZ ones).



Speaking of the bt10, I just got mine yesterday. I don't have aptx capability unfortunately. Still rocking a Samsung Note 4 lol! But so far, I'd say it's a bit better than the BT3 with the connection. Battery life seems about the same as the BT3 at 8 hrs or so. The dangling earrings aren't so bad if you were a collared shirt. Haven't tried them with a t-shirt yet but I do have some clips that I might use designed for the old LG Bluetooth headset. Might keep the wires or components out of the way. They are definitely more flexible and can fit into any case. So they are definitely worth it if you want to be able to store in a small compartment. They take up slightly more space than a standard set of 3.5mm but not by much.


----------



## neo_styles

Pulled the trigger and joined the T2 Pro drop. Might take a healthy minute for them to arrive, but seeing as how it's the only way to order them right now (from what I can tell), figured what the heck.

Also treated myself to a pair of the KSC75X because I feel like my in-ears have completely taken over my headphones in terms of preference. Might have to order a smaller cord for the HE-400i so I can use them at work (I work in a maintenance shop...nobody cares about sound leakage).


----------



## CoiL

tuanathon said:


> Curious if anyone has compared the es4 and the zs4?


Will do when I get my ZS4 but probably there are other users who already have both.
From what I`ve read - they are different signature and not comparable.


----------



## Mellowship

OK, I'm really impressed with KZ usb-c cable. It has a powerful DAC that can go up to 192. It is capable of making my zs5 v1 sing. A high resolution DAC for 9 USD? 
If you have a usb-c Android smartphone, just go for it.


----------



## CoiL

Link maybe? 
But I doubt it shares power anywhere close to my DX5X paired with ZS5v1.


----------



## Makahl

Would be nice to read impressions about KZ USB-C Cable x VE Odyssey, they look similar in their propose. Even though I don't need it, that seems cool to have one for an emergency.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Am I missing the $9.99 BTE every day? I don't see it when I get into work, only $19.99.



Probably. Those super price reductions usually sell out within 10-20 seconds. I’ve been lucky and scored 1 or 2 in the last few years of trying. I think it was on a ZS5 for (I think) $11 or $12.

I think some people must use computer scripts to grab them, because no way a human can buy it check out in 10 seconds. So if you want to try and compete against a computer, you are going to have to be fast.

Anyways, you have to pay attention to the time. It is usually Beijing time (it will say), so you have to calculate what time that is for you. And you better be ready to add it to your cart and check out at that exact time if you even remotely want a chance.

It is possible though, and sure feels good when you are finally able to nab a killer deal!


----------



## C2thew

I


Mellowship said:


> OK, I'm really impressed with KZ usb-c cable. It has a powerful DAC that can go up to 192. It is capable of making my zs5 v1 sing. A high resolution DAC for 9 USD?
> If you have a usb-c Android smartphone, just go for it.



wait wait wait what? the USB c cable is a dac???  I thought it was just another alternative to connect your headphones rather than the traditional 3.5mm method.  So in essense a slight bump in audio quality but not a dac built into the usb-c cable.  can anyone confirm?  If that's the case i might consider one of those.

chi fi money pit.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> I
> 
> 
> wait wait wait what? the USB c cable is a dac???  I thought it was just another alternative to connect your headphones rather than the traditional 3.5mm method.  So in essense a slight bump in audio quality but not a dac built into the usb-c cable.  can anyone confirm?  If that's the case i might consider one of those.
> ...



Yes, every USB C to audio cable has a DAC chip, even the cheap no-name pigtail cables that cost $2 on Aliexpress. They all use different DAC chips though, which is probably the most important factor in determining the junk from the good stuff.

Who knows what chip KZ used though.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> Yes, every USB C to audio cable has a DAC chip, even the cheap no-name pigtail cables that cost $2 on Aliexpress. They all use different DAC chips though, which is probably the most important factor in determining the junk from the good stuff.
> 
> Who knows what chip KZ used though.



I plugged it to my laptop yesterday and it listed something like "bravo" ... I don't remember, and I'm to lazy to power my laptop now.


----------



## Devodonaldson

CoiL said:


> Unfortunatey, ppl don`t use mirrors enough to observe traffic around them and don`t look ahead for possible dangerous situations.
> I use IEMs while driving all the time and can`t really see difference with ppl turning their stereo system loud (also can`t hear much) but they still do drive (a LOT of ppl do that and even dancing/singing behind wheel!).
> IMHO, it`s all about driving skills (mirrors,observing, proper speed etc.) and adequate behaviour behind wheel
> Also, imho, most dangerous drivers are SMOKERS, SMARTPHONE & CONSOLE USERS!
> ...


Lol! I either use it or use my aftermarket stereo system in my car. Sometimes I just like to listen to my headphones even though I have a top notch system in my car. It's just about mood. I live in California, where itsi illegal, but it doesn't hurt me. That's why I use iems now and stopped wearing full-size headphones. A lot easier to not get caught. Never had a problem wearing headgear and driving. I use my mirrors, I pay attention to my surroundings, but yeah, your average person pays attention to nothing


----------



## Devodonaldson

mbwilson111 said:


> My uncle is deaf and he drives.  Deaf people have learned to compensate.   Being distracted is a big issue.  I personally get lost in  my music.


I find it quite the opposite for me, but that's cuz I use music for everything. It helps me focus when I train, I've always used it to study, read, sleep. For me, listening to music, I actually feel more focused on what I'm doing. Go figure


----------



## Danfish98

You're all a terrible influence and the zs4 is on its way. I fully expect it to sound just like the zsa but I'll be happy with a more isolating version of the zsa for 13 bucks.


----------



## Slater

Danfish98 said:


> You're all a terrible influence and the zs4 is on its way. I fully expect it to sound just like the zsa but I'll be happy with a more isolating version of the zsa for 13 bucks.



I’ve never heard the ZSA, so don’t blame me if it doesn’t sound the same!


----------



## Danfish98

Slater said:


> I’ve never heard the ZSA, so don’t blame me if it doesn’t sound the same!


I'm hoping for a little different but expecting the same. But with a new cable, new tips that everyone's raving about and mostly positive reviews it seems like a no brainer for the price.


----------



## CoiL

Guys, which is the best KZ IEM with midrange BA?


----------



## phower

Slater said:


> Yes, every USB C to audio cable has a DAC chip, even the cheap no-name pigtail cables that cost $2 on Aliexpress. They all use different DAC chips though, which is probably the most important factor in determining the junk from the good stuff.
> 
> Who knows what chip KZ used though.


Actually, that is incorrect since USB C spec includes the option to route analog audio through the C connector. The cheap $1 or $2 cables are analog only and will work only with smartphones that have implemented the analog routing.


----------



## Strat Rider (Sep 19, 2018)

Devodonaldson said:


> Lol! I either use it or use my aftermarket stereo system in my car. Sometimes I just like to listen to my headphones even though I have a top notch system in my car. It's just about mood. I live in California, where itsi illegal, but it doesn't hurt me. That's why I use iems now and stopped wearing full-size headphones. A lot easier to not get caught. Never had a problem wearing headgear and driving. I use my mirrors, I pay attention to my surroundings, but yeah, your average person pays attention to nothing



I Was going to stay quiet on this topic........but naw couldn't do it.

Just to stay on topic of thread.
I just received my KZ USB-C cable, and I will say the SQ is somewhat improved over the standard 3.5 headphone jack.
I think it may have a DAC chip embedded, I have a new Galaxy S9+. I quick tested some tracks from google play music, even tho the over all quality is improved, It bypassess equalizer, upscaled bitrate, and adapt a sound options that are baked into Samsungs phones.
Volume is substantially decreased in my case, and since I don't have a USB-C Amp, I will have to rethink this strategy.

Off Topic, I also live in California, and up until June, either earplugs or iem were underneath my motorcycle helmet.
Driving my old Ford truck, with a stock stereo, (cassette anyone) i do occasionally enjoy whatever iem i picked for the day. If I don't have a bluetooth module to use while driving, I make sure I have a cabled microphone and answer button.

While I agree that there is an opportunity for distraction for some.

I will never believe that any iem, bluetooth, or earphone will personally affect me more than the unacceptable individual  that T-Boned my motorcycle on that tuesday morning in june....preoccupied by his....cell phone.


----------



## rum_runner

You shouldn't be driving with IEMs in, and people here should stop trying to justify it.


----------



## nxnje

rum_runner said:


> You shouldn't be driving with IEMs in, and people here should stop trying to justify it.


I agree with you. ++


----------



## CoiL (Sep 19, 2018)

rum_runner said:


> You shouldn't be driving with IEMs in, and people here should stop trying to justify it.


Then throw out Your car stereo, console, GPS(yes it is one very serious distraction) and NEVER use smartphone or smoke in car while driving (even when waiting behind traffic lights) ! Don`t say these are different things - they aren`t ...but very many ppl do those things! Heck, even pets in car are very dangerous and can cause distraction to driver which causes accident (I know such death from real life)!
I`m not justifying my IEM usage (I know what I`m doing and I am AWARE of traffic etc.) and ppl who have problems with concentrating on driving shouldn`t do it (or the other things I mentioned).
But I do it and You may hate me for that... but it doesn`t affect my driving or others safety, rather makes me more concentrated.


----------



## rum_runner

I agree, just because many people do idiotic things while driving, isn't justification. I classify IEM usage in the same category, but hey that's just my opinion, maybe you can hear emergency services and that guy in your blind spot, and the dude running the red light at 150mph with your IEMs in, I can't.


----------



## Mellowship (Sep 19, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> I Was going to stay quiet on this topic........but naw couldn't do it.
> 
> Just to stay on topic of thread.
> I just received my KZ USB-C cable, and I will say the SQ is somewhat improved over the standard 3.5 headphone jack.
> ...



The USB-C cable has indeed a DAC, and improves SQ in most embedded smartphone DACs/amps. I believe this should not be valid for some flagship or music-designed smartphones, but for midrange smartphones such as mine, the difference is notorious. I can get the same amplitude with the KZ cable at 1/3 volume, as the 3.5 standard jack at full volume. As for the quality, the improvement is very satisfying. I could not get the ZS5 (v1) rocking with the standard jack. Sound would get easily congested and dull. With the KZ cable, there is much more detail, better bass extension and control (in fact the bass gets this very satisfying "snappyness"), much better mids and instrument placement. It amounts for a better sonic experience overall. One interesting thing is that I could not get the KZ to play more than 96KHz, although it is featured in the technical details that it goes up to 192.
I also got recently the Hidizs Sonata USB-C dongle, and it is not very different form this KZ. It has a better DAC but with slightly less volume. It is a more hifi/audiophile experience, with even more detail and forward mids, compared to the KZ cable. The Sonata has the option to change firmware (in a PC) to 3 options. One of those options allows you to bypass all system sounds and lock to music only, and it only goes up to 192KHz in this mode using apps that allow to lock a DAC in bit-perfect transfer mode. Another curious thing about the Sonata is that the USB-C plug with the DAC chip in it is metal and it gets hot.
These dongles don't seem to drain more battery from the smartphone than a Bluetooth connection.

Regarding the off-topic driving behaviours, here in Europe using phones, earphones (two-sided) or doing something more than driving is strictly prohibited and law enforcement has a sharp eye on drivers that don't abide. Some years ago (2009), a driver was given a ticket for blowing his nose on a freeway in Portugal. Same thing happened in the UK a year later.

[edited: the case with the driver blowing his nose happened in 2009. You can check it out here: UK - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8484978.stm ; Portugal (in Portuguese) - https://noticias.automoveis-online.com/multado-por-se-assoar-enquanto-conduzia/ ]


----------



## CoiL

rum_runner said:


> ...maybe you can hear emergency services and that guy in your blind spot, and the dude running the red light at 150mph with your IEMs in, I can't.


* I do hear emergency services well with my IEMs. I don`t listen that loud and sirens are quite easy to hear.
* I know well my car/mirrors blind spot.
* We don`t even have roads here for such high-speed driving and usually on roads like that - there are no open-crossways for pedestrians anyway 

And btw... if dude steps in front of Your car (You cauldn`t react so fast) with red light(for him), then he is responsible. That`s the law. Sorry for him but that`s the way it is.
There are so much stupid pedestrians hypnotized by smartphones & listening to music that THEY should not be allowed to use those devices on street! This is reality.


----------



## SSandDigital

Well luckily for me, in my state wearing headphones or IEM while driving is a primary offense.

It's also in the category of stupidity.


----------



## nxnje

SSandDigital said:


> Well luckily for me, in my state wearing headphones or IEM while driving is a primary offense.
> 
> It's also in the category of stupidity.


I agree again, here too.
I would personally slap someone's face if i see people driving with iems listening to music.
I personally don't justify, but that's my opinion.

But hey guys, we should speak about earphones and not driving


----------



## CoiL

nxnje said:


> I would personally slap someone's face if i see people driving with iems listening to music.


And that is attitude to help ppl? Do IEMs slap You in the face? You watch through car windows for ppl ears while driving? That`s irresponsible driving! Not nice, twice.
Or do we come to conclusion that head-fiers are just "IEM radars" and thus dangerous to traffic because main thing they look while driving are IEMs/headphones? LOL! ;D


----------



## nxnje

CoiL said:


> And that is attitude to help ppl? Do IEMs slap You in the face? You watch through car windows for ppl ears while driving? That`s irresponsible driving! Not nice, twice.
> Or do we come to conclusion that head-fiers are just "IEM radars" and thus dangerous to traffic because main thing they look while driving are IEMs/headphones? LOL! ;D



I didn't say if i personally see someone while i'm driving.
That would be that case if i'm walking on the street and watching around i see someone in the car listening to music with earphones.
Then stop speaking around this bad behavior for 2 reasons:
1. It's irresponsible, i use your words as this is a perfect word to describe this kind of behavior.
2. This is not the topic where we should discuss about how people drive.

Close this off topic now guys, we've said enough.


----------



## CoiL (Sep 19, 2018)

All I wanted was argumented discussion. All You guys say is that it is irresponsible but don`t explain why.
I already answered 3 claims that I personally don`t find problem using IEM while driving.
I also mentioned other aspecs that I personally consider much more dangerous and irresponsible - to what, somewhy no comments (I bet many here reflected to that behaviour).
One thing is law - it is forbidden in my country to use smartphone while driving - but almost every 2nd person does it and don`t try to tell me that in Your country ppl don`t do it, lol.
I was not trying to justify my IEM usage and also told that ppl who have problems concentrating while driving (or are just dumb-drivers) should not use any distraction, including IEMs nor stereo system.
It`s all about awareness. I`m aware of potential dangers of using IEMs while driving. Are most drivers aware of their behaviour and doings while driving? I bet that with all those gadgets ppl have (other than IEM and also integrated car gadgets) that percent of unawareness is much higher than ppl aware what they are doing 
My point (law excluded) - there is much more dangerous behaviour happening constantly in nowdays traffic than using IEMs!

End of my offtopic. I hope I made some ppl think at least


----------



## Slater (Sep 19, 2018)

B9, what’s the scoop on the BA10? You’re keeping us in suspense!

And in other news....BOOM!


----------



## Devodonaldson

rum_runner said:


> I agree, just because many people do idiotic things while driving, isn't justification. I classify IEM usage in the same category, but hey that's just my opinion, maybe you can hear emergency services and that guy in your blind spot, and the dude running the red light at 150mph with your IEMs in, I can't.


Your post is focused on hearing. I see that as the problem. People focus less on their other senses. Working with deaf individuals, I learned the necessity of being more tuned into one's other senses as well. Toad vibrations from heavy fast moving vehicles, kdepike head on a swivel, scanning mirrors, blind spots, etc regularly. Things we really should all focus on.


----------



## antdroid

Should be getting a ba10 delivered today. I’m mostly curious on how they will fit. They look really odd.


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> B9, what’s the scoop on the BA10? You’re keeping us in suspense!
> 
> And in other news....BOOM!


How many KZ products have come out this year alone?

Hopefully they lean up the bass and treble on these.


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ BA10 preview: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/09/19/kz-ba10-preview/


----------



## aspire5550

At this point in time, I'm just gona wait for KZ ZS15 to make sure i get a KZ which is more matured and better tuned.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

ZS7 looks dope in blue. What is the driver config like?


----------



## phthora

Here is a summary of US Laws regarding the use of headphones, earphones, and headsets while driving:
https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/headsets/

TL;DR: For the majority of US states, there is no prohibition whatsoever. While Louisiana, Maryland, Ohio, and Rhode Island have strict prohibitions in place, and several states have prohibitions that apply only to certain types of drivers.


----------



## Zerohour88

aspire5550 said:


> At this point in time, I'm just gona wait for KZ ZS15 to make sure i get a KZ which is more matured and better tuned.



same conundrum as any tech toys (should I get that flippin' cheap GTX1080 or just wait for the RTX2080 to be cheaper). Either buy now and enjoy or wait until you get even better stuff and bang for your buck.


----------



## Wiljen

phthora said:


> Here is a summary of US Laws regarding the use of headphones, earphones, and headsets while driving:
> https://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/headsets/
> 
> TL;DR: For the majority of US states, there is no prohibition whatsoever. While Louisiana, Maryland, Ohio, and Rhode Island have strict prohibitions in place, and several states have prohibitions that apply only to certain types of drivers.



I'm a little surprised that most states have nothing on the books for this. I wonder if they have broader rules regarding "Devices that would impair the driver" like I know VA does.  Technically you cant even wear sunglasses legally while driving in VA.  Of course the CommunistWealth of VA is known for going overboard on these things too.


----------



## phthora

Wiljen said:


> I'm a little surprised that most states have nothing on the books for this. I wonder if they have broader rules regarding "Devices that would impair the driver" like I know VA does.  Technically you cant even wear sunglasses legally while driving in VA.  Of course the CommunistWealth of VA is known for going overboard on these things too.



Virginia has a blanket law against earphones, but nothing about headphones. My guess is that they don't want to have to worry about people who need headsets for good reasons, like first responders. It may also be a way to encourage hands-free use of phones over hands-on use. Who knows though.


----------



## antdroid

Zerohour88 said:


> same conundrum as any tech toys (should I get that flippin' cheap GTX1080 or just wait for the RTX2080 to be cheaper). Either buy now and enjoy or wait until you get even better stuff and bang for your buck.



But once you waited for the RTX2080 to be cheap, then 3080 will be out and you'll want that. It's an endless loop.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

B9Scrambler said:


> KZ BA10 preview: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/09/19/kz-ba10-preview/



Very cool. 

How is it compared to the ZS10? I'm looking for something that's got tighter, more precise bass than the ZS10 and preferably slightly less sparkly highs as well. And how's the bass and highs on the AS10 compared to the ZS10?


----------



## re.on

Slater said:


> B9, what’s the scoop on the BA10? You’re keeping us in suspense!
> 
> And in other news....BOOM!


 Oh no no no i like the blue color...and my wallet is feeling blue already. Is this legit?


----------



## antdroid

Ironman has arrived. (I accidentally posted this in the Chi-Fi thread, but I'll post a different photo here)


----------



## Slater (Sep 19, 2018)

re.on said:


> Oh no no no i like the blue color...and my wallet is feeling blue already. Is this legit?



Yes it’s legit.

And no, no one knows when it will be out, no one has it yet, or knows the price, or knows what it sounds like. Haha

I’m sure the ZS7 will be worth the wait though, even if it takes a year.

The ZS6 is excellent, and KZ seems to really be getting their act together with their recent offerings (AS10, ZS4, BA10).


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> And no, no one knows when it will be out, no one has it yet, or knows the price, or knows what it sounds like. Haha



What? Does this mean you won't tell me how the mids are and how tall the soundstage is?   So disappointed


----------



## Slater (Sep 19, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> What? Does this mean you won't tell me how the mids are and how tall the soundstage is?   So disappointed



Haha, or how it compares to this IEM or that IEM? And if you should buy this other IEM now or if you should wait for the ZS7? Or if it is going to the best IEM under $100?

I mean, I’d LOVE to know the future, but my crystal ball is broken at the moment lol


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Haha, or how it compares to this IEM or that IEM? And if you should buy this other IEM now or if you should wait for the ZS7? Or if it is the best IEM under $100?



No, I wanted to know which of the headphones in my list sound most like it


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> No, I wanted to know which of the headphones in my list sound most like it



I can say with 100% certainty that when they are not playing music, the ZS7 sounds exactly the same as every other IEM in your collection!


----------



## fldrice

Looks like my luck has ran out. AS-10 that I received had a mid/ mid-high driver that was wired out of phase. 



alex5908 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Could anybody compare **** H5 with AS10? That would be greatly appreciated.



I believe the h5 is rebranded magaosi k5/ toneking tk2.  If this is correct, the as-10 has considerably better low end response than my k5, however there is still a bit of a mid bass bloat. The highs were a bit more resolving than the k5(can be hot). Please keep in mind that these observations were from miswired pair.


----------



## antdroid (Sep 19, 2018)

I think the BA in the BA10 stands for BAss 10.


Here is the side-by-side BA driver chart between the AS10 and the BA10 that I spliced together. There is one difference in driver -- the one that controls the mid-range. This has a pretty big impact in how the two sound. The BA10 is darker. The AS10 is brighter, perhaps more balanced.




My quick and dirty measurements show bass/lower mids that are basically identical but they split off around 800Hz to 4-5KHz where they intersect again more or less.


----------



## kukkurovaca

How is the isolation on the BA10 vs. the AS10?


----------



## nxnje

Hello boyz
On gearbest i saw 2 types of ZS6: one is with normal description, wether the other one mentions "EXTRA BASS".
Is that a new version of the ZS6?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> I can say with 100% certainty that when they are not playing music, the ZS7 sounds exactly the same as every other IEM in your collection!



Ahahaha good trick to get rid of our little monkey dancing in our heart and brain when we see another piece of gear.


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> I think the BA in the BA10 stands for BAss 10.
> 
> 
> Here is the side-by-side BA driver chart between the AS10 and the BA10 that I spliced together. There is one difference in driver -- the one that controls the mid-range. This has a pretty big impact in how the two sound. The BA10 is darker. The AS10 is brighter, perhaps more balanced.
> ...



Hmmm, that could be a simple typo (ending in 89 vs 98).


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Hello boyz
> On gearbest i saw 2 types of ZS6: one is with normal description, wether the other one mentions "EXTRA BASS".
> Is that a new version of the ZS6?



Nope, same version. That extra bass business was just marketing fluff made up to sell the new grey color.


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> Hmmm, that could be a simple typo (ending in 89 vs 98).



I thought so too, but its written on the driver and in the text.


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> I thought so too, but its written on the driver and in the text.



You mean you saw it written on the BA driver of you own personal pair (and using with your own eyes)? Or do you mean in the photos of the BA diver in the online marketing literature (ie the computer renderings)?


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> You mean you saw it written on the BA driver of you own personal pair (and using with your own eyes)? Or do you mean in the photos of the BA diver in the online marketing literature (ie the computer renderings)?



The marketing photo. twice. Once on the driver and one below it on the text (which i circled)


----------



## re.on

Slater said:


> I can say with 100% certainty that when they are not playing music, the ZS7 sounds exactly the same as every other IEM in your collection!



woah. i didn't know that. )


----------



## antdroid

hmmm could be a typo. theres an "N" at the end of the driver instead of "8"


----------



## schom

mbwilson111 said:


> This one is the least expensive single BA that I can find.  If you search the forum,  there is some discussion about it.  The Astrotec AM90.  I think it has been around for a long time.  Knowles Single Balanced Armature Driver.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Earphones-AM-90-MIC/2885080_32893191632.html


I was an owner of the AM90 and the AX7.
The cable from both is very bad. the cable from the AX7 broke within one month at several places. i cannot believe it. i am glad that i have spent just 50€ on the ax7 (instead of the former price: 180€). 
i take care of my equipment and that is why i cannot believe it. even the shell of the ax7 is not good to. at last i can say that the AM90 lives longer thant my AX7. 
if you want to buy a good earphone than go for DUNU My trident lives 3 years and the soundstage and the isolation is above average in comparision with other earphones in this class.
since that time i decide not to buy from astrotec. 
Sorry for my english and best regards.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Sep 20, 2018)

antdroid said:


> The BA10 is darker. The AS10 is brighter, perhaps more balanced.



That's basically the exact opposite of what I was hearing, lmao. Sometimes I hate this hobby O_O

*Edit: The tuning differences I hear are very minor; less mid-bass on the BA10, slightly more treble, more or less same mids and sub-bass, but more importantly, the BA10 sounds more controlled. Using stock tips. Could always be I'm just not getting an ideal seal. Less bass, more treble is generally a symptom of that. I find the fit on them somewhat awkward.*


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> That's basically the exact opposite of what I was hearing, lmao. Sometimes I hate this hobby



Haha, at least that makes things easier for people! Eenie meenie miney moe...


----------



## antdroid

The BA10 fit is definitely awkward. The weird shape pushes up against my left ear and its a bit painful rather quickly. The right ear can handle it a little longer before pain ensues.


----------



## B9Scrambler

I don't get any pain, it just doesn't feel secure. Ergonomics could definitely be improved regardless. Bummer, cause they sound great.


----------



## BrunoC

B9Scrambler said:


> I don't get any pain, it just doesn't feel secure. Ergonomics could definitely be improved regardless. Bummer, cause they sound great.



How about swapping left and right sides and wear cable down. I do this with the ZS5, ZS6, ZS10 with great results.


----------



## B9Scrambler

BrunoC said:


> How about swapping left and right sides and wear cable down. I do this with the ZS5, ZS6, ZS10 with great results.



Awesome idea but my ears do not comply. It's the shape of the protrusion that holds the nozzle giving them that weird hybrid fitment; half barrel shape iem, half low profile. I just need to tip roll more to find the right match


----------



## Slater (Sep 20, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Awesome idea but my ears do not comply. It's the shape of the protrusion that holds the nozzle giving them that weird hybrid fitment; half barrel shape iem, half low profile. I just need to tip roll more to find the right match



In similar cases where the shell just doesn't fit comfortably in the ear, I have to resort to using as long of a tip as possible. Basically the eartip in my ear canal is what ends up supporting the whole IEM, and the IEM shell is 'moved away' from my outer ear allowing it to not touch whatever part of my outer ear anatomy was interfering with the fit.

For me, foams usually work well for this purpose.

Unfortunately, most silicone tips have the bottom of the core sticking way up inside of the tip, as illustrated by the tip on the left in this photo:




I really wish more companies would make silicone tips with long cores (even longer than the tip on the right in the above photo).

Anyways, this fitment trick is OK with light IEMs (plastic), because the ear canal is barely supporting any weight. But on heavy IEMs like the heavy aluminum BA10, it is hit or miss because the ear canal just won't like supporting the heavier weight for extended periods.

And this doesn't even take into account the sonic changes you end up with, by being forced to use certain tips that don't SOUND the best but you have to use them anyways because they FIT the best.

Oh well. We all knew the BA10 was going to have a problematic fit with a lot of people, right from the very 1st photos that were released.


----------



## C2thew (Sep 20, 2018)

So two issues i've found with the KZ ZS4 that i have NO idea why the engineers changed about the ZS3 in the first place.
1) As slater already pointed out, the cable for the ZS4 is longer (which is a good thing as it reduces snags while running, especially since I tend to run the cable inside of my shirt while holding my phone).  However, the Y split area has a hard rubber that rubs on my stomach when I'm running which causes slight irritation.  The older ZS3's had the Y split higher and I didn't notice any discomfort when running. 
2) The microphone placement on the ZS4 cable was also pushed lower as well.   Not sure why they did this but the microphone was never all that strong on the ZS3 cables to begin with.
3) The ear tip canals are SHORTER on the ZS4's then the ZS3's!  WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.  I've noticed that my silicone earbuds have fallen off while running because of the shorter flange distance.  When I mean that the earbuds fall off while running, it's that sometimes i'll run with someone and take one of the iems out of my ear to listen by just letting them dangle on my shirt.  That small amount of up and down or friction rub from my shirt is enough to dislodge the silicone earbud from the nozzle.

Although KZ added a "lip" to the nozzle, they also SHORTENED the distance by 2mm.  While shortening the distance may increase the bass on the ZS4's by bringing the dynamic driver closer to the canal, it also makes the ear tips stuck in your ears because of the shorter length.

argh kz all you had to do was literally use the same ZS3 shell, add the balanced aperture, and change the positioning of the internals to make the ZS4.  The exterior changes were not necessary. 

Pictures to come in a few days or so to show the nozzle difference.


----------



## Wiljen

I have cut a couple of tips to make spacers to put on the nozzle to force the shallow cores to stay out at the end of the nozzle.  I have found about 3mm to be a good length.


----------



## Slater (Sep 20, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I have cut a couple of tips to make spacers to put on the nozzle to force the shallow cores to stay out at the end of the nozzle.  I have found about 3mm to be a good length.



That doesn't always work though. For instance, on IEMs with a notch carved into the nozzle designed for the eartip core to lock into. It's usually around the middle of the nozzle, but it varies.

Like this:



Anyways, if you force a different tip placement using silicone spacers or keyboard o-rings, it usually causes the tip to fall off easily.

If manufacturers would just make some tips with longer cores - cores that extended well beyond the mushroom part of the eartip, it would fit properly (without falling off) and there would be no need for hacks like spacers.

Like this:



Except with an even LONGER longer core, like this:


But in the above photo it would need a normal mushroom piece on top, like a Starline or whatever. The one in the photo above has a really shallow mushroom skirt part.

Make sense? I'm too lazy to Photoshop it haha


----------



## Makahl

C2thew said:


> So two issues i've found with the KZ ZS4 that i have NO idea why the engineers changed about the ZS3 in the first place.
> 1) As slater already pointed out, the cable for the ZS4 is longer (which is a good thing as it reduces snags while running, especially since I tend to run the cable inside of my shirt while holding my phone).  However, the Y split area has a hard rubber that rubs on my stomach when I'm running which causes slight irritation.  The older ZS3's had the Y split higher and I didn't notice any discomfort when running.
> 2) The microphone placement on the ZS4 cable was also pushed lower as well.   Not sure why they did this but the microphone was never all that strong on the ZS3 cables to begin with.
> 3) The ear tip canals are SHORTER on the ZS4's then the ZS3's!  WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.  I've noticed that my silicone earbuds have fallen off while running because of the shorter flange distance.  When I mean that the earbuds fall off while running, it's that sometimes i'll run with someone and take one of the iems out of my ear to listen by just letting them dangle on my shirt.  That small amount of up and down or friction rub from my shirt is enough to dislodge the silicone earbud from the nozzle.
> ...



Well, you can change the cable to ZS3 one? Regarding eartips I've had this problem with starlines getting stuck in my ears on ZS3 too because they're flat inside so they don't get a good grip even with lips on. Tennmak Turbo eartips are my favorite for this application, it's so comfy and the grip is tight that feels like a CIEM. Sometimes it's all about adapting and testing.


----------



## C2thew (Sep 20, 2018)

Makahl said:


> Well, you can change the cable to ZS3 one? Regarding eartips I've had this problem with starlines getting stuck in my ears on ZS3 too because they're flat inside so they don't get a good grip even with lips on. Tennmak Turbo eartips are my favorite for this application, it's so comfy and the grip is tight that feels like a CIEM. Sometimes it's all about adapting and testing.



My original ZS3 stock cable died as long as the stock ZS6 cable as well.  Both suffered the same fate.  internal cable faults shorting out the left IEM right by the 3.5mm jack area.  Basically the left IEM no longer produces sound because the internal cable broke.  Swapping left and right channels confirms it's not the IEM at fault but moreso the cable failing.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> My original ZS3 stock cable died as long as the stock ZS6 cable as well.  Both suffered the same fate.  internal cable faults shorting out the left IEM right by the 3.5mm jack area.  Basically the left IEM no longer produces sound because the internal cable broke.  Swapping channels confirms it's the the IEM at fault but moreso the cable failing.



Were they both mic cables?


----------



## Makahl

C2thew said:


> My original ZS3 stock cable died as long as the stock ZS6 cable as well.  Both suffered the same fate.  internal cable faults shorting out the left IEM right by the 3.5mm jack area.  Basically the left IEM no longer produces sound because the internal cable broke.  Swapping channels confirms it's the the IEM at fault but moreso the cable failing.



Damn, but if both issues you listed still annoying you I'd give a try to TRN V10 cable and Tennmark Eartips. I think you'll be surprised by how good these eartips can be, also you can choose colors through PMing seller. I've chose red/black and it's rather easy to see left/right side now.


----------



## C2thew

Slater said:


> Were they both mic cables?



Yup both cables ZS3 and ZS6 were mic cables that failed on me.  My favorite ear tips are still the stock ear tips from the ZS3.  the stock eartips on the ZS6's and 10's don't have that grip that the original ZS3's do.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Well, you can change the cable to ZS3 one? Regarding eartips I've had this problem with starlines getting stuck in my ears on ZS3 too because they're flat inside so they don't get a good grip even with lips on. Tennmak Turbo eartips are my favorite for this application, it's so comfy and the grip is tight that feels like a CIEM. Sometimes it's all about adapting and testing.



Wow, that’s surprising. The core on the KZ/Tennmak turbo tips are really wide.

How do you keep them from wobbling around on the smaller ZS3 nozzle?

And how far down do you push the tip down on the nozzle? Do you do it all the way until it bottoms out?


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> Wow, that’s surprising. The core on the KZ/Tennmak turbo tips are really wide.
> 
> How do you keep them from wobbling around on the smaller ZS3 nozzle?
> 
> And how far down do you push the tip down on the nozzle? Do you do it all the way until it bottoms out?



I have made lips onto the nozzle using UV glue as you suggested in the past, so, it's not big deal now otherwise it won't fit. But assuming ZS4 has lips now it shouldn't be a problem anymore, right?


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> Yup both cables ZS3 and ZS6 were mic cables that failed on me.  My favorite ear tips are still the stock ear tips from the ZS3.  the stock eartips on the ZS6's and 10's don't have that grip that the original ZS3's do.



I avoid mic cables whenever possible for this exact reason. In my experience, ALL mic cables will eventually fail, and it’s usua long before a non-mic version of the same cable. 

However, KZs mic cables don’t seem to fail at a higher or lower rate than anyone else’s.


----------



## C2thew

i'll be ordering non mic replacement cables in the future.  hopefully they last without having those issues.  It's also cause i run with my smartphone in my hand so the mic does come in handy.  The button on the mic to pause music is also REALLY nice to have if you have to stop and have a conversation with someone.


----------



## Strat Rider (Sep 20, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> The USB-C cable has indeed a DAC, and improves SQ in most embedded smartphone DACs/amps. I believe this should not be valid for some flagship or music-designed smartphones, but for midrange smartphones such as mine, the difference is notorious. I can get the same amplitude with the KZ cable at 1/3 volume, as the 3.5 standard jack at full volume. As for the quality, the improvement is very satisfying. I could not get the ZS5 (v1) rocking with the standard jack. Sound would get easily congested and dull. With the KZ cable, there is much more detail, better bass extension and control (in fact the bass gets this very satisfying "snappyness"), much better mids and instrument placement. It amounts for a better sonic experience overall. One interesting thing is that I could not get the KZ to play more than 96KHz, although it is featured in the technical details that it goes up to 192.



I am definitely going to load FLAC onto my SD and load it into my Galaxy S9.

I have both versions of this cable, and as long as my 60+ year old Sound Funnels can tell the difference I will report back.


----------



## CoiL

Was going to order PHB-023 as my daily workhorse... but now... damn that ZS7 -.- ! I hope price is within 20-30$.


----------



## TheVortex (Sep 20, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Was going to order PHB-023 as my daily workhorse... but now... damn that ZS7 -.- ! I hope price is within 20-30$.



The ZS7 does look cool but it just looks like the ZS6 in blue in my opinion. After using my PHB-023 for a couple of days I feel like this is what the ZS6 should have sounded like as it still has great bass but without the overly harsh treble.


----------



## CoiL

TheVortex said:


> The ZS7 does look cool but it just looks like the ZS6 in blue in my opinion. After using my PHB-023 for a couple of days I feel like this is what the ZS6 should have sounded like as it still has great bass but without the overly harsh treble.


M`kay... maybe I wont wait then and still go for PHB (I like those accessories too).


----------



## Slater (Sep 20, 2018)

Makahl said:


> I have made lips onto the nozzle using UV glue as you suggested in the past, so, it's not big deal now otherwise it won't fit. But assuming ZS4 has lips now it shouldn't be a problem anymore, right?



Awesome! +1 for the UV glue lip

An alternate method I’ve been using involves heat shrink tubing. It works even better than the UV glue method. 

Simply cut a very small piece of (tight fitting) heat shrink tubing, and put it at the very end of the nozzle. Then gently (but quickly) heat the tubing to shrink it, making sure not to damage the IEM body or drivers from overheating. Sometimes I need to add a 2nd piece of tubing over the 1st, to build it up a little thicker. The end result is making my own lip at the end of the nozzle.


----------



## antdroid

@B9Scrambler - Here are the MiniDSP measurements I made last night. Green is the AS10, and red is the BA10.


----------



## Joong (Sep 20, 2018)

Per the measuring stick above, BA10 has boosted bass, sibilant bright, and lacking air missing sparkle.
It has also hollow voices, and romantically mellow sounding.
I got this one on: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brand-superlux/hd688/


----------



## maxxevv

TheVortex said:


> The ZS7 does look cool but it just looks like the ZS6 in blue in my opinion. After using my PHB-023 for a couple of days I feel like this is what the ZS6 should have sounded like as it still has great bass but without the overly harsh treble.



From the description of the poster, with no other information available, I'm guessing that its basically a ZS6 case packed with the ZS10 internals. ( 1DD + 4 BA configuration ) 

Which actually would be pretty cool to me as I have a better fit on the ZS6 than the ZS10 and I really like the sound signature of the ZS10 ( assuming the tuning is the same or at least close.). As the rolled off treble makes for a nice multi-hour session earphone, without losing any of the details.  

Something I couldn't do with the ZS6, as the hot treble and sibilance is really quite a harsh combination.


----------



## antdroid

Joong said:


> Per the measuring stick above, BA10 has boosted bass, sibilant bright, and lacking air missing sparkle.
> It has also hollow voices, and romantically mellow sounding.
> I got this one on: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brand-superlux/hd688/



I will tell you this, there is not romance between me and this IEM. I am going to be honest. It's really hard for me to wear this IEM and listen to music with. It doesn't sound bad, but its physically painful to wear due to the size, shape and weight. Maybe someone who is larger than I with bigger ears can handle it more.

They TRN V80 is heavier, by a good margin (8.6 grams), but its small and fits comfortably in the ear. These are big and bulky and weight 6.9 grams vs 5.4 for the AS10 and 4.6 for the T2 Pro.

The BA10 is acutally not as wide as the AS10, but since its square-ish instead of round, it sticks out and unfortunately it basically pushes into my ear. Also these dont work for me wearing cable down and flipping sides either. Same pain but in different locations.


----------



## ShakyJake

Joong said:


> Per the measuring stick above, BA10 has boosted bass, sibilant bright, and lacking air missing sparkle.
> It has also hollow voices, and romantically mellow sounding.
> I got this one on: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brand-superlux/hd688/



This should be a "sticky" on this thread


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Nope, same version. That extra bass business was just marketing fluff made up to sell the new grey color.



Thanks then, i was thinking about that but it was even good asking as these chinese companies often edit their products without even saying ahahah


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

antdroid said:


> @B9Scrambler - Here are the MiniDSP measurements I made last night. Green is the AS10, and red is the BA10.



Interesting. So basically the BA-10 has exactly the same bass performance of the AS-10 but the AS-10 is less bright and treble-forward? It seems like the AS-10 is more mellow than the BA-10?

What does the graph of the ZS-10 look like?

Would you happen to have a website or database of all the frequency response graphs of the headphones you've tested?


----------



## Strudelicious

Shame about the comfort issues. The negligible difference likely means I'll be looking to the likes of the v80, the as10, and the bgvp dmp still as my top 3 interest chifibuys. Currently my es4's have me feeling very satisfied


----------



## Eero94 (Sep 21, 2018)

Received my ZS4s today, pretty impressed with the SQ so far, comfort and isolation is also great. Definitely worth the 15€ I paid for these.


----------



## CoiL

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Interesting. So basically the BA-10 has exactly the same bass performance of the AS-10 but the AS-10 is less bright and treble-forward? It seems like the AS-10 is more mellow than the BA-10?
> What does the graph of the ZS-10 look like?
> Would you happen to have a website or database of all the frequency response graphs of the headphones you've tested?


Also wondering about ZS10 graph alongside.

To me seems that BA10 & AS10 use same drivers, just different crossover setting @ highs and mids BA (or different damping material also). By FR graph, I would personally go for AS10. But I wont. Neither ZS10.


----------



## khighly

Does anyone know what TRN BT10 works with AS10, ZS10? Is it the .75mm or .78mm? I'm looking for aptX with BT 4.2 due to living in Seattle and having major interference.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...-HIFI-Earphone-2PIN-MMCX-Use/32915852505.html


----------



## antdroid (Sep 21, 2018)

khighly said:


> Does anyone know what TRN BT10 works with AS10, ZS10? Is it the .75mm or .78mm? I'm looking for aptX with BT 4.2 due to living in Seattle and having major interference.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...-HIFI-Earphone-2PIN-MMCX-Use/32915852505.html



KZ uses 0.75mm I think. But I've had success using either one to be honest. I use the same 0.78mm 2-pin cables with all my 2-pin IEMs with no issues, including KZ, TRN, Noble, Massdrop +, iSine, Unique Melody, etc.

Also, what does living in seattle have to do with major interference? Curious, as a fellow Seattlelite.


----------



## khighly

antdroid said:


> KZ uses 0.75mm I think. But I've had success using either one to be honest. I use the same 0.78mm 2-pin cables with all my 2-pin IEMs with no issues, including KZ, TRN, Noble, Massdrop +, iSine, Unique Melody, etc.
> 
> Also, what does living in seattle have to do with major interference? Curious, as a fellow Seattlelite.



KUOW up on Capitol Hill is a 100KW flamethrower that images a lot of poorly designed & poorly shielded RF devices, of which are BT cables & IEM's. It causes skipping and artifacating. You also have now hundreds of people walking around using BT headphones, watches, speakers, etc that are interfering. 4.2 supposedly increases reliability of data transmission by quoted '250%'.


----------



## antdroid

khighly said:


> KUOW up on Capitol Hill is a 100KW flamethrower that images a lot of poorly designed & poorly shielded RF devices, of which are BT cables & IEM's. It causes skipping and artifacating. You also have now hundreds of people walking around using BT headphones, watches, speakers, etc that are interfering. 4.2 supposedly increases reliability of data transmission by quoted '250%'.



Ah I see. 

If you have a little more money, I recommend the ES100 adapter or perhaps the BTR3, though they would work best with a shorter cable. The ES100 is awesome. One of my favorite audio devices.


----------



## antdroid

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Interesting. So basically the BA-10 has exactly the same bass performance of the AS-10 but the AS-10 is less bright and treble-forward? It seems like the AS-10 is more mellow than the BA-10?
> 
> What does the graph of the ZS-10 look like?
> 
> Would you happen to have a website or database of all the frequency response graphs of the headphones you've tested?



I'd say the BA10 bass seems more exaggerated in my listening due to the more recessed mids. The treble is difference is pretty negligible, though because of the lower mids, I think the overall tonality is darker, laid back and lacks that exciting energy I like. It does make the treble seem more sharp and harsh too. Now all of this said, I wanted to get @B9Scrambler's thoughts too because he seems to have a different listening experience on these. Would be curious how other reviews sound like but I dont know who else has gotten their hands on these yet.

I have a website in my signature that I post reviews and have a link to my google drive with all the measurements in jpg format. The site is multi-use so I have some random sports-related and games/mods I make in my sparetime on it -- you can ignore that content.


----------



## khighly

antdroid said:


> Ah I see.
> 
> If you have a little more money, I recommend the ES100 adapter or perhaps the BTR3, though they would work best with a shorter cable. The ES100 is awesome. One of my favorite audio devices.


I really like wireless and the ability to walk around wire free except the wire hanging around my neck. Thanks of the suggestion though, those look pretty awesome.


----------



## Trebor1966 (Sep 21, 2018)

Yesterday my KZ AS10 arrived - let me share my impressions and thoughts with the background and experience of 10 years collecting inears in every price range from $ to 1.500$.
It is a fact that AS10 is the best product offering from KZ since starting their business - the company was founded a few years ago from guys which worked at Audio-Technica.
The crossover in combination with the BA's produce a very coherent balanced nearly flawless sound.
The biggest surprise is the bass driver which produce well textured and airy lows comparable to dynamic drivers.
A few weeks ago i heard the TOTL Empire Ears Phantom - believe me or not the balance and naturalness is better with the AS10.
I use AS10 with AK380 Copper and Questyle QP1R and i hear no big difference to other inears costing 20 times more.
I would say AS10 is 90% ot a TOTL offering - only the cheaper chinese armatures produces less microdetails compared to knowles.
When KZ will in the future focus on development and improvements instead of flooding the market with countless new types they can achieve the highest technical level combined
with cheap mass production - good for us but bad for the western manufacturer of overpriced so called TOTL offerings.


----------



## khighly

Trebor1966 said:


> Yesterday my KZ AS10 arrived - let me share my impressions and thoughts with the background and experience of 10 years collecting inears in every price range from $ to 1.500$.
> It is a fact that AS10 is the best product offering from KZ since starting their business - the company was founded a few years ago from guys which worked at Audio-Technica.
> The crossover in combination with the BA's produce a very coherent balanced nearly flawless sound.
> The biggest surprise is the bass driver which produce well textured and airy lows comparable to dynamic drivers.
> ...



Thanks for the review. I also think AS10 and ZS10 are currently KZ's top of the line. Both have unique sound signatures, but are wonderful IEM's. AS10 is extremely fun too. I'm not exactly a fan of the lows on either though, as I don't feel there's any substantial sub-bass extension (even if they were less of a presence), I feel it's lacking. AS10's and ZS10's put my IT03's to shame.


----------



## randomnin

khighly said:


> Thanks for the review. I also think AS10 and ZS10 are currently KZ's top of the line. Both have unique sound signatures, but are wonderful IEM's. AS10 is extremely fun too. I'm not exactly a fan of the lows on either though, as I don't feel there's any substantial sub-bass extension (even if they were less of a presence), I feel it's lacking. AS10's and ZS10's put my IT03's to shame.


Are there imaging differences and channel balance/stereo crosstalk differences, detectable by ear, between the two KZ flagships? The data for ZS10 from rtings.com is very good, but I like the frequency graph of AS10 better than ZS10, so I can't decide which to get.


----------



## khighly

randomnin said:


> Are there imaging differences and channel balance/stereo crosstalk differences, detectable by ear, between the two KZ flagships? The data for ZS10 from rtings.com is very good, but I like the frequency graph of AS10 better than ZS10, so I can't decide which to get.



Both have the best stereo separation and soundstage of any KZ I have or had have in the past, AS10 probably leading in that aspect. No noticeable sound flaws or distortion that I claimed in my original initial review. The other night I did extensive listening to the ZS10 and was just as impressed as the AS10, but they're totally different sound signatures. ZS10 have poor isolation compared to the AS10, are more uncomfortable, and are much harder to power. AS10 are more energetic with a larger low/mid-low presence. Both have fairly rolled off highs, but can still extend fairly far.


----------



## Milck

Think I'm rather lost with all the models. I'm looking for something under $10 to use for the gym/running. Reading reviews, it seems that the KZ ATE might be best. Is that right?

Or would the ZS3 be better? The main thing is the fit. Ideally don't want them falling out mid-workout. Thanks again!


----------



## Strat Rider (Sep 21, 2018)

Strat Rider said:


> I am definitely going to load FLAC onto my SD and load it into my Galaxy S9.
> 
> I have both versions of this cable, and as long as my 60+ year old Sound Funnels can tell the difference I will report back.



I have had a chance to audition the KZ USB-C cable, and I can say my ears are pleasantly surprised when compared to the Standard Iron Gray 3.5mm analog cable.

I am not a reviewer by nature, more a seat-of-the-pants guy, but the ears like what they like.

My test setup consists of Samsung Galaxy S9 plus. No EQ, or enhancements applied.
OOTB KZ USB-C cable, 100 stream, iron Grey attached to OOTB Kz ZSR and fresh ootb Auvio wide-bore tips. (ear wax free)
Fresh out of the box,KZ (100 stream) Iron Grey cable, with 3.5 mm, no Mic. also attached to an OOTB Kz ZSR and fresh ootb Auvio wide-bore tips. (ear wax free)

4 Cups Peets Major Dickenson coffee.

The Eagles; "Hotel California" remastered 24/192 flac album.
Eric Clapton"Aint Gone'n Give up on your Love " from A tribute to SRV" 16/44 flac track.

The impressions I noted are;

Overall SQ Clarity
_Detail retrieval appears to be much better than standard analog cable. (mid range instruments more noticeable. ie washboard, acoustic guitars, tambourine, etc)_
_Sound Volume is increased ~25%_
_Still more listening needed but _DAC or not the USB-C cable is a winner.


----------



## antdroid

khighly said:


> I really like wireless and the ability to walk around wire free except the wire hanging around my neck. Thanks of the suggestion though, those look pretty awesome.



Ah okay. OT but I saw a KUOW banner ad on a bus this morning right after your post and thought that was funny. 

I wish I had ZS10 to listen to and measure. Maybe I'll buy one when I see a good deal on it just to have in my database. The Rtings.com measurements look like it has a hump which I probably won't like in the upper bass region. Does it sound muddy?


----------



## B9Scrambler

antdroid said:


> @B9Scrambler - Here are the MiniDSP measurements I made last night. Green is the AS10, and red is the BA10.



Really interesting. I wonder how much their fit is affecting what I'm hearing. Thanks for the measurements


----------



## khighly

antdroid said:


> Ah okay. OT but I saw a KUOW banner ad on a bus this morning right after your post and thought that was funny.
> 
> I wish I had ZS10 to listen to and measure. Maybe I'll buy one when I see a good deal on it just to have in my database. The Rtings.com measurements look like it has a hump which I probably won't like in the upper bass region. Does it sound muddy?


I find them fairly flat, and have somewhat recessed bass & mid bass. They're clean & detailed. AS10's have more of a bump in mid bass and they're energetic without sounding muddy. I never trust these frequency graphs, they're confusing and all different, and I never actually hear anything any of them claim.


----------



## stryed

Trebor1966 said:


> Yesterday my KZ AS10 arrived - let me share my impressions and thoughts with the background and experience of 10 years collecting inears in every price range from $ to 1.500$.
> It is a fact that AS10 is the best product offering from KZ since starting their business - the company was founded a few years ago from guys which worked at Audio-Technica.
> The crossover in combination with the BA's produce a very coherent balanced nearly flawless sound.
> The biggest surprise is the bass driver which produce well textured and airy lows comparable to dynamic drivers.
> ...



As a skeptical but weak person willing to buy a AS10, I'm strong enough to be holding on for the KZ7 impressions while the impressions on the BA10 ZS10 AS10 still come dropping in.
My first impressions of first impressions made by others is that the AS10 might have something special to offer at the sub100 price range.


----------



## khighly

The thing I want most from the ZS7 is no f*$&ing memory wire.


----------



## CoiL

Trebor1966 said:


> Yesterday my KZ AS10 arrived - let me share my impressions and thoughts with the background and experience of 10 years collecting inears in every price range from $ to 1.500$.
> It is a fact that AS10 is the best product offering from KZ since starting their business - the company was founded a few years ago from guys which worked at Audio-Technica.
> The crossover in combination with the BA's produce a very coherent balanced nearly flawless sound.
> The biggest surprise is the bass driver which produce well textured and airy lows comparable to dynamic drivers.
> ...


Comparisons made by gap in time can play tricks - just sayin  Sometimes comparing with TOTL IEM head-to-head at same time can result different. 
But nice to hear that ppl in chi-fi are getting more than they pay for. Personally, reading AS10 reviews, I don`t seem to want it. And that brings me to point - we all have different ears, gear matching, preferences, tips being used, music etc. - one that can be TOTL for one might be "rubbsih" to other.


----------



## seaice (Sep 22, 2018)

I use Shure SE846 as my longterm favourite reference in-ears but I have to provide heaphones to many members of my family. E.g. children destroy every piece quite quickly. So I recently bought KZ ZSA: Not bad for the money, better than in-ears usually packed with mobile phones but very far from neutrality and from the high SQ of Shure SE846, no contest here. Now awaiting ZS10...


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> The thing I want most from the ZS7 is no f*$&ing memory wire.



Add TRN cable. Done.


----------



## Slater (Sep 22, 2018)

seaice said:


> I have to provide headphones to many members of my family. E.g. children destroy every piece quite quickly.



I feel you friend. I deal with the same problem.

That's how I got to be so enthusiastic about the EDR1. For under $3, its built link a tank (if you get the version without mic). It has the bassy v shaped sound that most kids love. And when they destroy it you are only out a few dollars.

I only wish the cable was a little less gummy, which makes it tangle easier (and takes more patience to untangle, something kids don't have a lot of).

I have given my teenage daughter numerous IEM cases, and shown how to carefully wind up and unwind IEMs without tangling. But 9 out of 10 times when I'm doing laundry I'll find her IEMs crunched up into a ball and stuffed into her jeans pocket like a tangled ball of spaghetti. It's no wonder how they get destroyed!

This is why I buy things like aux cables and phone charger cables in bulk (and inexpensively). I literally just got a bulk shipment of 25 aux cables from Aliexpress, which cost me a total of $10 shipped. My daughter saw me open up the package and was like "_wow dad that's a lot of cables do you really need all of those?_" I said "_well these are for you, and yes every 2-3 weeks when you come to me in a panic because you've lost or broken your headphone aux cable and need another one immediately, this is where those new cables magically come from._"

Haha, kids.


----------



## antdroid

khighly said:


> The thing I want most from the ZS7 is no f*$&ing memory wire.



At least they make its really easy to remove. But yea, the memory wire they use is absolute garbage.


----------



## B9Scrambler

antdroid said:


> At least they make its really easy to remove. But yea, the memory wire they use is absolute garbage.



KZ's memory wire is pretty darn good. Much better than the majority of the crap out there. It actually holds the shape you set it to. Can't say that about the "memory" wire on more expensive products like the Campfire Audio Polaris, Whizzer A150 Pro, Fisher Audio Omega, original FLC8S cable (which they revised and removed the memory wire from...wonder why?) and countless other examples. Once you've used some truly terrible memory wire, you'll know how good we have it with KZ. Still better to have preformed guides, or better yet nothing, but KZ's wire does what it's supposed to do.


----------



## Nightmara

Can anyone recommend comfy tips for ES4? I don't have them yet so can't measure the nozzle just yet but would love to get some recommendations so I could order them straight away. I get sore ears from most tips and I heard KZ default tips are not too good. 
Low price is preferred


----------



## antdroid

B9Scrambler said:


> KZ's memory wire is pretty darn good. Much better than the majority of the crap out there. It actually holds the shape you set it to. Can't say that about the "memory" wire on more expensive products like the Campfire Audio Polaris, Whizzer A150 Pro, Fisher Audio Omega, original FLC8S cable (which they revised and removed the memory wire from...wonder why?) and countless other examples. Once you've used some truly terrible memory wire, you'll know how good we have it with KZ. Still better to have preformed guides, or better yet nothing, but KZ's wire does what it's supposed to do.



I prefer no memory wire personally, but I really liked the one that came with the Noble Audio IEMs and Unique Melody. I still end up using my own DIY cables though, which do not have memory wire at all.


----------



## Slater

Nightmara said:


> Can anyone recommend comfy tips for ES4? I don't have them yet so can't measure the nozzle just yet but would love to get some recommendations so I could order them straight away. I get sore ears from most tips and I heard KZ default tips are not too good.
> Low price is preferred



Not sure who you heard that from. KZ stock tips (ie Starlines) are awesome, and I use them on the majority of my IEMs.

It really depends on WHY you are getting sore ears. Is it because your ears are very narrow (for example), or very big? And do you get sore ears from silicone tips or foam tips? How long are your listening sessions - 30 minutes, 8 hours?


----------



## fuzzybabybunny (Sep 22, 2018)

After reading the initial impressions of the BA-10 I decided to just go and buy the AS-10. The thought of an uncomfortable fit doesn't really appeal to me.

The AS-10 is arriving tomorrow and I'll do some music comparisons between:

AS-10
ZS-10
Westone W60

All using the DragonFly Red DAC and Tidal Lossless.

Having had the ZS-10 for longer I can say that the sound is warm and fun while having good separation and not much mud. The Westone W60s have no mud and excellent separation but can sound anemic due to a lower amount of bass compared to the ZS-10.

I've tested 30+ IEMs before over hours and hours in Japan in a store called e-earphones and can say that the ZS-10s are *incredibly* good value for the money. There are some IEMs in the $400 range that I thought were worse than these ZS-10s, and really, anything over $200 IMO is starting to get into serious money so I get pretty worked up over things like muddiness in, say, a $300 IEM. A Westone W30 triple driver for $400? Absolute garbage for the money.

I'm really into vocals though, mostly female, and the Westone W60 vocals are pure sex. Just... heart-stoppingly sweet vocals like the artist is right beside you singing in your ear. I unfortunately have not been able to get the same sensation with the ZS-10s, which isn't to say the ZS-10 vocals are bad. They're great. But the W60s are just amazing. And the KSE1500s (which I don't own) take them up yet another notch.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

Is Bluetooth AptX HD a thing yet? Are there any good bluetooth AptX HD cables for these 0.75mm connectors or MMCX?


----------



## Slater

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Is Bluetooth AptX HD a thing yet? Are there any good bluetooth AptX HD cables for these 0.75mm connectors or MMCX?



People swear by the Earstudio ES100. So yeah, it’s a thing.


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> People swear by the Earstudio ES100. So yeah, it’s a thing.



Ive never swore so much. I prefer LDAC over AptX HD. But both are solid


----------



## jibberish

Got my first pair KZ headphones in the mail earlier today, the ZSR. Really enjoying them so far. Ran it through my favorite test tracks to check for things like sibilance and mid-bass bleed, and have no complaints. ZSR seems less technically impressive than something like the TRN v80 in most aspects (bass extension, detail retrieval in the upper ranges, layering/separation), but if I had to choose between the two I think I'd go with the ZSR. It's bright signature isn't fatiguing, vocals sound natural, and the bass is actually quite good (just not v80 levels of good). 

I was initially worried about comfort after my ears got sore after less than an hour of use, but I realized the problem is with the cable -- I have had no issues throughout the afternoon since swapping it out.  I think that if I strip the memory wire off of the ZSR cable it might be fine.  The ZSR isn't some world-beater, but I think it's a solid choice now that it's being sold for about $20. I think it'll be my new daily driver.

I'm waiting on the ZS4 to arrive too, figured it's definitely worth a punt at $12.


----------



## antdroid

Review of the BA10: http://www.antdroid.net/2018/09/kz-ba10-putting-square-peg-in-round-hole.html


----------



## Clinic

jibberish said:


> Got my first pair KZ headphones in the mail earlier today, the ZSR. Really enjoying them so far. Ran it through my favorite test tracks to check for things like sibilance and mid-bass bleed, and have no complaints. ZSR seems less technically impressive than something like the TRN v80 in most aspects (bass extension, detail retrieval in the upper ranges, layering/separation), but if I had to choose between the two I think I'd go with the ZSR. It's bright signature isn't fatiguing, vocals sound natural, and the bass is actually quite good (just not v80 levels of good).
> 
> I was initially worried about comfort after my ears got sore after less than an hour of use, but I realized the problem is with the cable -- I have had no issues throughout the afternoon since swapping it out.  I think that if I strip the memory wire off of the ZSR cable it might be fine.  The ZSR isn't some world-beater, but I think it's a solid choice now that it's being sold for about $20. I think it'll be my new daily driver.
> 
> I'm waiting on the ZS4 to arrive too, figured it's definitely worth a punt at $12.



This is basically where I am.  I was looking to replace my awful SE425's and wanted something that wouldnt break the bank.  Grabbed some kz as10's because they are getting good reviews.  While I was checking out I saw the ZST's and figured for $18 it couldnt hurt to try them.  They are on the boat still but im really excited to see how they sound.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

Slater said:


> People swear by the Earstudio ES100. So yeah, it’s a thing.



Holy crap. The ES100 functions as both a USB *wired* DAC and a bluetooth DAC with AptX HD?

So basically I could replace my DragonFly Red USB DAC with this and have the added functionality of bluetooth?

- Why are there two DACs?
- Any idea why I would keep the DragonFly Red instead?


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

Clinic said:


> This is basically where I am.  I was looking to replace my awful SE425's and wanted something that wouldnt break the bank.  Grabbed some kz as10's because they are getting good reviews.  While I was checking out I saw the ZST's and figured for $18 it couldnt hurt to try them.  They are on the boat still but im really excited to see how they sound.



Man, just for poops and giggles I looked back at the notes I took when I demoed the Shure SE425s a year ago:

"WOW. So much missing from Adele's "Hello." SO MUCH. Replaying this song on the Westone W60 you just get taken aback by all the extra detail and immersion of the W60s. Lacking lots of extra detail. Just... bad."

And this is what I mean about paying hard-earned money for name brand IEMs that are overpriced and, frankly, crappy. I'm so sorry. I'd be pissed at Shure too. I'm sure the AS10s will be loads better since my ZS10s really give my W60s a run for their money.


----------



## maxxevv

The AS10 and the ZS10 are both pretty good for the pricepoint for which I got them at ( at sale and discount coupons added,  US$41 and US$31  respectively). 

I wouldn't say one is significantly better than the other as their sound signatures are not the same.  The treble on the ZS10 is more laid back (rolled off) and as such I find it much easier on the ears for multi-hour sessions.  The AS10 is more forward but not to the point of harsh. Just as a result sounds a little brighter comparatively. 

Between the 2 I actually enjoy the tonality of the ZS10 a little more. 

However, the fit of the AS10 is generally better for most people, so the comfort and isolation should be better too.  

The AS10 runs louder on the same volume settings on the same playback source.  It may be down to the fit and isolation somewhat too. 

Just remember that the ZS10 is a little fiddly with its seal, so do remember to play around with the eartips and position on the ears to get the right fit.


----------



## Clinic

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Man, just for ****s and giggles I looked back at the notes I took when I demoed the Shure SE425s a year ago:
> 
> "WOW. So much missing from Adele's "Hello." SO MUCH. Replaying this song on the Westone W60 you just get taken aback by all the extra detail and immersion of the W60s. Lacking lots of extra detail. Just... bad."
> 
> And this is what I mean about paying hard-earned money for name brand IEMs that are overpriced and, frankly, ****ty. I'm so sorry. I'd be pissed at Shure too. I'm sure the AS10s will be loads better since my ZS10s really give my W60s a run for their money.



I committed the cardinal sin of not doing research when I got my SE425.  I was tired of garbage skull-candy type earbuds and wanted something better.  I saw folks saying the SE535 was pretty good but I just wasnt ready to spend $400 on something like that (hah).  So I went to my local guitar center and picked up a pair of 425's and thought they were fine.  So not only do I have garbage IEMs, I also got the privledge of overpaying for them...  I don't like to think about all of the good stuff I could have gotten for $250.   

Anyways, I've used them for like 2 years, so I guess Ive gotten my money's worth out of them.  The problem is that they could be so much more.  Ive never really had anything to compare them to except crap earbuds, so it'll probably be depressing to do comparisons when my KZ and Tin Audio Pros get here.

But Ive learned from that and I do lots of research on this stuff now, hence me being here.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Clinic said:


> This is basically where I am.  I was looking to replace my awful SE425's and wanted something that wouldnt break the bank.  Grabbed some kz as10's because they are getting good reviews.  While I was checking out I saw the ZST's and figured for $18 it couldnt hurt to try them.  They are on the boat still but im really excited to see how they sound.


The ZST's were my first foray into KZ earphones and Hybrid earphones. I think I paid $22 for them back when they came out. I like them very much. Very light and very comfortable. The cable was garbage(springy and rubbery), but I replaced it with the $8 KZ silver cable. Now they are my go too Bluetooth pair as they sound fantastic with the KZ BT cable.


----------



## Clinic

BadReligionPunk said:


> The ZST's were my first foray into KZ earphones and Hybrid earphones. I think I paid $22 for them back when they came out. I like them very much. Very light and very comfortable. The cable was garbage(springy and rubbery), but I replaced it with the $8 KZ silver cable. Now they are my go too Bluetooth pair as they sound fantastic with the KZ BT cable.



It is funny you mention the cable because I saw that writing on the wall for the ZST when I ordered them and could tell that the stock cable was going to be an issue.  I grabbed the $10 braided copper cable at the same time.  I anticipate throwing the stock cable directly into the garbage.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 23, 2018)

Clinic said:


> It is funny you mention the cable because I saw that writing on the wall for the ZST when I ordered them and could tell that the stock cable was going to be an issue.  I grabbed the $10 braided copper cable at the same time.  I anticipate throwing the stock cable directly into the garbage.



Good move 

I have the black TRN cable on my carbon color ZST.    The newer models from KZ come with a much nicer cable..no longer shipping with the rubbery one.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-For-TRN-V10-TRN-V20/1727211_32868588210.html


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> Good move
> 
> I have the black TRN cable on my carbon color ZST.    The newer models from ZST come with a much nicer cable..no longer shipping with the rubbery one.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-For-TRN-V10-TRN-V20/1727211_32868588210.html


Wow that cable looks higher quality than the one included with the iBasso IT03's! Maybe it's not oxygen free copper with nitrogen packed unobtanium coating by young german frauleins like people claim the IT03 cable is?


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Wow that cable looks higher quality than the one included with the iBasso IT03's! Maybe it's not oxygen free copper with nitrogen packed unobtanium coating by young german frauleins like people claim the IT03 cable is?



Haha

I have a bunch of the TRN cables - silver and black. They are good cables, especially for the price.


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> Wow that cable looks higher quality than the one included with the iBasso IT03's! Maybe it's not oxygen free copper with nitrogen packed unobtanium coating by young german frauleins like people claim the IT03 cable is?



It is not as soft and luxurious as the cable that came with my iBasso IT01.  That is the best stock cable that I have.


----------



## Clinic

mbwilson111 said:


> Good move
> 
> I have the black TRN cable on my carbon color ZST.    The newer models from ZST come with a much nicer cable..no longer shipping with the rubbery one.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-For-TRN-V10-TRN-V20/1727211_32868588210.html



Oh, nice.  I tend to lean towards the sentiment of @khighly when it comes to cables.  All I'm looking for is quality, comfort, and look.  The cable you linked looks like it fits the bill perfectly.  Maybe I'll check it out the next time I'm ready to stomach a month and a half of shipping.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 23, 2018)

A month and a half?  We usually get our things in two weeks or less.  Once in a while something takes forever.  Maybe shipping to the UK is faster.

The fastest from aliexpress has been 5 days!  Free shipping.


----------



## phower

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Is Bluetooth AptX HD a thing yet? Are there any good bluetooth AptX HD cables for these 0.75mm connectors or MMCX?


Don't put too much into Bluetooth codecs. Support for them is not universal yet. It is also not easy to figure out what codec is being actively used unless you trace the Bluetooth protocol messages. Not something an average user can do or should be doing.
For example, LDAC gets disabled by my Android phone when I connect a Sony speaker which supports LDAC. I spent a few hours looking at the protocol messages and then gave up. A consumer shouldn't be doing all this investigations.


----------



## Clinic

mbwilson111 said:


> A month and a half?  We usually get our things in two weeks or less.  Once in a while something takes forever.  Maybe shipping to the UK is faster.
> 
> The fastest from aliexpress has been 5 days!  Free shipping.



I ordered on 9/16, and it is on the boat currently.  I'm hoping they come in the next week because I have some business travel and I'd rather have new toys to play with than be stuck with my 425's.  I'm optimistic, but also a realist.  I've been spoiled by Amazon for too long.


----------



## antdroid

phower said:


> Don't put too much into Bluetooth codecs. Support for them is not universal yet. It is also not easy to figure out what codec is being actively used unless you trace the Bluetooth protocol messages. Not something an average user can do or should be doing.
> For example, LDAC gets disabled by my Android phone when I connect a Sony speaker which supports LDAC. I spent a few hours looking at the protocol messages and then gave up. A consumer shouldn't be doing all this investigations.



Newest versions of android have a checkboxes in the Bluetooth settings for codecs. For example, when I look at my ES100 settings in android, it has a switch for “HD Audio” which is enabled by default.

You also can enable advanced Bluetooth controls in the dev menu.


----------



## mbwilson111

Clinic said:


> I ordered on 9/16, and it is on the boat currently.  I'm hoping they come in the next week because I have some business travel and I'd rather have new toys to play with than be stuck with my 425's.  I'm optimistic, but also a realist.  I've been spoiled by Amazon for too long.



I highly doubt it is on a boat   Sometimes not much shows in tracking and then they suddenly show up.


----------



## SuperLuigi

Slater said:


> That's how I got to be so enthusiastic about the EDR1. For under $3, its built link a tank (if you get the version without mic). It has the bassy v shaped sound that most kids love. And when they destroy it you are only out a few dollars.



Any reason why the one without a mic is better for durability?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

antdroid said:


> Newest versions of android have a checkboxes in the Bluetooth settings for codecs. For example, when I look at my ES100 settings in android, it has a switch for “HD Audio” which is enabled by default.
> 
> You also can enable advanced Bluetooth controls in the dev menu.



Android Oreo and above has an option to force LDAC or AptX whenever it's supported, in the developer options


----------



## Slater (Sep 23, 2018)

SuperLuigi said:


> Any reason why the one without a mic is better for durability?



Cables with mics are an extra 2 points of failure (1 on each side of the control module).

The insulation and wire is physically cut and tiny wires barely larger than a human hair are soldered to a small circuit board. Every time the wire is bent, tugged, coiled up, taken in and out, etc is more wear and tear on the fragile solder joints. All it takes is 1 (out of the 4 solder joints) to come loose, and the whole cable is “bad” and won’t work anymore.

Think of it this way. A rope is made up of tiny individual strands. Which of these 2 would you trust to tow a car up a hilly road, every day for 1 year, without failing?

1. A rope that is continuous and unbroken
2. A rope that has been completely cut in 2, and then individual strands have been glued back together.

And of the above 2 ropes, when it fails, _where_ do you think the rope will break?

Also, sweat and moisture and electronics don’t get along, and the mic control modules are usually not IPX waterproof rated. So moisture and sweat gets into the control module and causes corrosion and shorting.


----------



## randomnin

Clinic said:


> I committed the cardinal sin of not doing research when I got my SE425.  I was tired of garbage skull-candy type earbuds and wanted something better.  I saw folks saying the SE535 was pretty good but I just wasnt ready to spend $400 on something like that (hah).  So I went to my local guitar center and picked up a pair of 425's and thought they were fine.  So not only do I have garbage IEMs, I also got the privledge of overpaying for them...  I don't like to think about all of the good stuff I could have gotten for $250.
> 
> Anyways, I've used them for like 2 years, so I guess Ive gotten my money's worth out of them.  The problem is that they could be so much more.  Ive never really had anything to compare them to except crap earbuds, so it'll probably be depressing to do comparisons when my KZ and Tin Audio Pros get here.
> 
> But Ive learned from that and I do lots of research on this stuff now, hence me being here.


Looking forward to your impressions and comparisons! According to the frequency response graphs, all Shure SE series models should sound a bit listless (except SE215), but I wonder what's their standing against AS10 if equalized similarly...


----------



## CardigdanWalk

phower said:


> Don't put too much into Bluetooth codecs. Support for them is not universal yet. It is also not easy to figure out what codec is being actively used unless you trace the Bluetooth protocol messages. Not something an average user can do or should be doing.
> For example, LDAC gets disabled by my Android phone when I connect a Sony speaker which supports LDAC. I spent a few hours looking at the protocol messages and then gave up. A consumer shouldn't be doing all this investigations.



That’s very strange to hear, as I thought one of the requests of offering LDAC was that it has to used if available. (Overriding all settings)


----------



## phower

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Android Oreo and above has an option to force LDAC or AptX whenever it's supported, in the developer options


I am aware of it. It is turned on. That is why I had to trace the BT messages. It could be a licensing/certification issue. I have to dig deeper later.


----------



## mochifi

So I picked up the AS10 amongst a few other things as part of my curiosity into chi-fi. This is the first set of IEMs by KZ I've owned.

My first impressions of the AS10 are that they feel very v-shaped. The bass stood out to me first. I'm not a bass head so I reckon these are the bassiest IEMs I own now! Unfortunately I'm getting some sibilance for some of my music which I not a fan of. Rather than EQ them right off that bat I want to try them out as-is so in order to make it a bit more tolerable I've lowered my listening volume a little. Soundstage is to my liking though.

The cable gets tangled really easily, it'd be the first thing I'd change if these became my daily drivers. I'm also just using the included tips that came with it for now, will try a bit of tip rolling to see if it helps as I noticed the bore is quite big on them.


----------



## carltonh

Slater said:


> Cables with mics are an extra 2 points of failure (1 on each side of the control module).
> 
> The insulation and wire is physically cut and tiny wires barely larger than a human hair are soldered to a small circuit board. Every time the wire is bent, tugged, coiled up, taken in and out, etc is more wear and tear on the fragile solder joints. All it takes is 1 (out of the 4 solder joints) to come loose, and the whole cable is “bad” and won’t work anymore.
> 
> ...


Out of probably 300 earphones in my life, and about 20 broken, I've only had one break at the microphone, a KZ ED9, and yet the earphone still works, it is only the microphone and button that no longer work.


----------



## jibberish

After spending all day on planes and trains with the ZSR today, I do think there is comfort issue for me. The sharp point at the opposite side of the housing from the nozzle presses hard into my ear. I can twist the housing in a way that the point doesn't make contact with my ear, but, it's easy for it to shift into an uncomfortable position if you're moving around.

Looks like the ZS4 has that exact same shape on that side of the housing as well


----------



## Slater (Sep 23, 2018)

carltonh said:


> Out of probably 300 earphones in my life, and about 20 broken, I've only had one break at the microphone, a KZ ED9, and yet the earphone still works, it is only the microphone and button that no longer work.



We all have different experiences in life. I’m glad you’ve had such good luck with mic’d cabled IEMs. I can only speak for myself, and I’ve had the opposite luck from yours. It is because of that, that I never buy mic cable versions unless that’s the only way they come.


----------



## Mellowship

Why the hell does the ZS3 sounds awfully with the KZ Bluetooth cable (4.2) but the ZST sounds terrific? Not the best solution here because the plugs only go as deep as the metal pins, but this combo is a winner.


----------



## audionab

1 trip to pocket 
Although the cable still works


----------



## Mellowship

audionab said:


> 1 trip to pocket
> Although the cable still works


That sucks  
You should have left 5mm of the sleeve when you took the memory wire off, to act as a strain relief... 
None of my KZ cables suffered from that misfortune. 

How about the sound? I'm expecting the ZS4 to arrive soon...


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Why the hell does the ZS3 sounds awfully with the KZ Bluetooth cable (4.2) but the ZST sounds terrific?



Impedance mismatch.


----------



## audionab

Mellowship said:


> That sucks
> You should have left 5mm of the sleeve when you took the memory wire off, to act as a strain relief...
> None of my KZ cables suffered from that misfortune.
> 
> How about the sound? I'm expecting the ZS4 to arrive soon...


i never had this problem with es4 which i had for a month but ya should have done that strain relief thing 
the SQ is great 
the bass is awesome,mids are slightly recessed, the treble is slightly boosted and has very slight hint of sibilance although with burn-in it will be gone


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> Impedance mismatch.


Hey @Slater, I suspected that. I believe you published something in that regard here, but I couldn't find it. 
What I did find was your excellent tutorial on how to fix the BT antenna! [ https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1282#post-13621972 ]
So I got my tools out and opened the BT module... but it was very different from yours. No visible antenna. Got so frustrated that I forgot to take a picture before closing it back...


----------



## Mellowship

audionab said:


> i never had this problem with es4 which i had for a month but ya should have done that strain relief thing
> the SQ is great
> the bass is awesome,mids are slightly recessed, the treble is slightly boosted and has very slight hint of sibilance although with burn-in it will be gone


Thanks. I like those "slightly" tweaks! When mine arrives I'll post my impression. But for what I was able to make from all of you that already listened to the ZS4, it should be a great cost/performance option!


----------



## hydroid (Sep 24, 2018)

Just got em from the post office. Initial impression is they're good but not that great. Definitely better than zs3 but the midbass and details of the zst (with foam mod by slater) is still best for me. But the fit is perfect. Just my opinion though.. Will give more hours of playing and tip rolling(probably wide bore) then see if sound will change..


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Hey @Slater, I suspected that. I believe you published something in that regard here, but I couldn't find it.
> What I did find was your excellent tutorial on how to fix the BT antenna! [ https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1282#post-13621972 ]
> So I got my tools out and opened the BT module... but it was very different from yours. No visible antenna. Got so frustrated that I forgot to take a picture before closing it back...



Wow, that’s interesting.

That tells me KZ must have switched from the circuit board trace style antenna to a SMD ceramic antenna chip. We know they are using a ceramic antenna on the new ‘neck’ style Bluetooth module.

Assuming that is the case, that means my antenna mod won’t work (as you found). But the flip side of that is in theory an antenna mod shouldn’t even be needed. One of the advantages of ceramic antenna chips is it takes the guesswork out of calculating the proper antenna length - the chip manufacturer has already done that step for you.

However, that still requires KZ to:
1. Select the correct ceramic antenna for the intended application, as different ceramic antennas would be used for different wavelengths.
2. Ensure the circuit is designed with adequate shielding, grounding, etc. 

So there’s plenty of chances for KZ engineers to make bonehead circuit design mistakes. And given the reports of the performance of the newest KZ cables, it sounds like that’s still happening.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> Wow, that’s interesting.
> 
> That tells me KZ must have switched from the circuit board trace style antenna to a SMD ceramic antenna chip. We know they are using a ceramic antenna on the new ‘neck’ style Bluetooth module.
> 
> ...



Damn! It is exactly what I think is happening. I read some online reviews for the new "neck style" BT module, which were more or less consistent with frequent connection skips. As I didn't need the APT-X codec, I decided to go for the old KZ BT cable, the one with the single dongly-dong! "At least" - I thought - "if I experience any shortage of breath from the module, I will grab my iron and apply the good ol' @Slater antenna fix"... 

Well, the BT works fine indoors, despite having no more than 3 meters of range. Outdoors, almost every time I slide my phone in the jeans' pocket, it skips. Fade down... moment of silence for the death of BT signal... fade up, here it comes again! 

So, ceramic it should be. Now I'm curious. Over the next few days I'll manage to take some time and patience to open it up and post some pictures of its groins.


----------



## Slater (Sep 24, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> Damn! It is exactly what I think is happening. I read some online reviews for the new "neck style" BT module, which were more or less consistent with frequent connection skips. As I didn't need the APT-X codec, I decided to go for the old KZ BT cable, the one with the single dongly-dong! "At least" - I thought - "if I experience any shortage of breath from the module, I will grab my iron and apply the good ol' @Slater antenna fix"...
> 
> Well, the BT works fine indoors, despite having no more than 3 meters of range. Outdoors, almost every time I slide my phone in the jeans' pocket, it skips. Fade down... moment of silence for the death of BT signal... fade up, here it comes again!
> 
> So, ceramic it should be. Now I'm curious. Over the next few days I'll manage to take some time and patience to open it up and post some pictures of its groins.



Cool, please do!

Yeah, it’s really unfortunate that KZ just can’t get their act together on any of their Bluetooth stuff.

I have a number of the KZ modules, and I hate using them (except the one I modded). I was planning on using them for converting a few full size headphones to Bluetooth (since the module is so small) just because I can, but I don’t even want to use them for that.

The TRN cables blow the KZ cables out of the water.

It’s going to be quite interesting to see how the new KZ BTE does. It may have the best sound in the world, but if it has crappy Bluetooth it’s going to fail. And that’s going to be unfortunate, because the cable is fixed.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Clinic said:


> I committed the cardinal sin of not doing research when I got my SE425.  I was tired of garbage skull-candy type earbuds and wanted something better.  I saw folks saying the SE535 was pretty good but I just wasnt ready to spend $400 on something like that (hah).  So I went to my local guitar center and picked up a pair of 425's and thought they were fine.  So not only do I have garbage IEMs, I also got the privledge of overpaying for them...  I don't like to think about all of the good stuff I could have gotten for $250.
> 
> Anyways, I've used them for like 2 years, so I guess Ive gotten my money's worth out of them.  The problem is that they could be so much more.  Ive never really had anything to compare them to except crap earbuds, so it'll probably be depressing to do comparisons when my KZ and Tin Audio Pros get here.
> 
> But Ive learned from that and I do lots of research on this stuff now, hence me being here.


i owned the shure 535 and (superior build quality aside) they don't sound as good as the kz zsr or trn v80; likewise from memory i thought the tin t2 sounded better than the wetstone w40. which is not to state categorically that all the $$$ mainstream players are bad value or subpar, but you get an awful lot of bang for your buck in chifi.


----------



## audionab

after some tip rolling for zs4 the best sounding and comfortable fit are the tennmak turbo whirlwinds(wide bore)
They don't isolate as good as starlines but they don't hurt my ears like these new starlines do because they go way deep in the ear canal
With wide bores zs4 sounds more open and less bassy


----------



## randomnin

loomisjohnson said:


> i owned the shure 535 and (superior build quality aside) they don't sound as good as the kz zsr or trn v80; likewise from memory i thought the tin t2 sounded better than the wetstone w40. which is not to state categorically that all the $$$ mainstream players are bad value or subpar, but you get an awful lot of bang for your buck in chifi.


Do these comparisons also apply if all of the mentioned IEMs are equalized to match the same - your preferred - sound signature?


----------



## loomisjohnson

randomnin said:


> Do these comparisons also apply if all of the mentioned IEMs are equalized to match the same - your preferred - sound signature?


i'd say so--eq can change the signature but will only do so much to enhance detail, instrument placement and resolution.


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> i'd say so--eq can change the signature but will only do so much to enhance detail, instrument placement and resolution.



reminded me of the time I A-B the SE846 and a DIY SK846 chi-fi, virtually similar sound sig, SE846 came out on top, just. Staggering since the SK846 was $100 or so.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Zerohour88 said:


> reminded me of the time I A-B the SE846 and a DIY SK846 chi-fi, virtually similar sound sig, SE846 came out on top, just. Staggering since the SK846 was $100 or so.


i get scolded for mentioning specific diy clones, but i have likewise been struck by how close some of 'em get to the real thing at a tiny fraction of the price. the hell with intellectual property, right?


----------



## C2thew

jibberish said:


> After spending all day on planes and trains with the ZSR today, I do think there is comfort issue for me. The sharp point at the opposite side of the housing from the nozzle presses hard into my ear. I can twist the housing in a way that the point doesn't make contact with my ear, but, it's easy for it to shift into an uncomfortable position if you're moving around.
> 
> Looks like the ZS4 has that exact same shape on that side of the housing as well



I believe the shape of the ZSR bulges slightly moreso then the ZS3's.  Those that have purchased the ZS3's and then the ZSR's did notice discomfort on the ZSR's that they did not feel on the ZS3's.


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> i get scolded for mentioning specific diy clones, but i have likewise been struck by how close some of 'em get to the real thing at a tiny fraction of the price. the hell with intellectual property, right?



tbf, we are in a KZ thread, so that got left out the door. The bean shape is used so much now, I don't really think it needed the SE846 designation, but since taobao is a messy place with lots of IEMs being released, gotta make your product stand out somehow. I've seen the Skald 4 being advertised as having "SE846" tuning.


----------



## bhazard

I haven't touched my much more expensive LZ A5 since getting the AS10. Something to think about.

The A5 needs far too many tweaks, filter changes, eq and tip rolls compared to just throwing on the AS10's with starlines and very slight eq.


----------



## randomnin

loomisjohnson said:


> i'd say so--eq can change the signature but will only do so much to enhance detail, instrument placement and resolution.





bhazard said:


> I haven't touched my much more expensive LZ A5 since getting the AS10. Something to think about.
> 
> The A5 needs far too many tweaks, filter changes, eq and tip rolls compared to just throwing on the AS10's with starlines and very slight eq.


Are the Sonion or Knowles drivers really meaningless? Have the Chinese copied everything successfully and for 1/10 of the price, or have the Western developments no meaning in the music reproduction field? I find it especially dumbfounding that it is the technical quality of the sound, not just using an unpopular signature, that is better in Chi-Fi than in a big Western name. And then again, there's crinacle's ranking in which everything cheap, like the KZs, is barely above utter-crap level. I'm getting mixed signals here.


----------



## bhazard

randomnin said:


> Are the Sonion or Knowles drivers really meaningless? Have the Chinese copied everything successfully and for 1/10 of the price, or have the Western developments no meaning in the music reproduction field? I find it especially dumbfounding that it is the technical quality of the sound, not just using an unpopular signature, that is better in Chi-Fi than in a big Western name. And then again, there's crinacle's ranking in which everything cheap, like the KZs, is barely above utter-crap level. I'm getting mixed signals here.



Unless you have measurements like innerfidelity and rtings, people's opinions are pretty much worthless. They can only guide you so far (lots of bass, recessed mids, etc).

Yes, the chinese have started making quality audio products the past few years that can meet or exceed western offerings, usually at a much lower price. Western names still have chinese audio beat in high end headphone offerings and noise cancelling headphones. Eventually that gap will close too.

You do get better customer support and returns for the money buying brand names (usually). Tariffs will also put a dent in the price gap over time.


----------



## randomnin

bhazard said:


> Tariffs will also put a dent in the price gap over time.


Not for Europe they won't, heh.

So you're saying crinacle is a deluded elitist snob, propping up an industry of above and beyond ridiculously overpriced IEMs  ?


----------



## bhazard

randomnin said:


> Not for Europe they won't, heh.
> 
> So you're saying crinacle is a deluded elitist snob, propping up an industry of above and beyond ridiculously overpriced IEMs  ?



We're all extremely picky here and want the next best thing, otherwise we would all have SkullCandys and be satisfied.


----------



## Slater

bhazard said:


> We're all extremely picky here and want the next best thing, otherwise we would all have SkullCandys and be satisfied.



Wait, SkullCandys aren't TOTL?


----------



## bhazard

Slater said:


> Wait, SkullCandys aren't TOTL?


Airpods are, duh.

I've always wanted to look like I have bent q tips lodged in my ears at all times.


----------



## Zerohour88

randomnin said:


> Not for Europe they won't, heh.
> 
> So you're saying crinacle is a deluded elitist snob, propping up an industry of above and beyond ridiculously overpriced IEMs  ?



for @crinacle, the $350 Sennheiser IE80S is just 1 tier above the $15 KZ ZS3, let that sink in. Not sure what point you're trying to make here, but fact is, just let the sound do the talking. Sometimes people care too much about prestige or branding.


----------



## maxxevv

Zerohour88 said:


> for @crinacle, the $350 Sennheiser IE80S is just 1 tier above the $15 KZ ZS3, let that sink in. Not sure what point you're trying to make here, but fact is, just let the sound do the talking. Sometimes people care too much about prestige or branding.



Wonder what he would say of the ZS10 / AS10 in his tiered rankings if he gets around to them ?


----------



## CoiL (Sep 25, 2018)

antdroid said:


> Review of the BA10: http://www.antdroid.net/2018/09/kz-ba10-putting-square-peg-in-round-hole.html





bhazard said:


> I haven't touched my much more expensive LZ A5 since getting the AS10. Something to think about.
> The A5 needs far too many tweaks, filter changes, eq and tip rolls compared to just throwing on the AS10's with starlines and very slight eq.


Interesting. I find AS10 mixed bag reading different reviews.
Some find it U-shaped but with well balanced signature and no annoying peaks.
Some find it V-shaped with recessed mids and some sibilance in highs.
Some find it intimate soundstage while some think it is average.
Gear matching problem? Tips used? idk. While I`m starting to belive AS10 is best KZ has done... I just don`t find it appealing reading reviews.


mbwilson111 said:


> It is not as soft and luxurious as the cable that came with my iBasso IT01.  That is the best stock cable that I have.


Same here. Best cable I`ve ever used, BQ & SQ wise. After changing jack it measures 0.2 Ohm.


hydroid said:


> Just got em from the post office. Initial impression is they're good but not that great. Definitely better than zs3 but the midbass and details of the zst (with foam mod by slater) is still best for me. But the fit is perfect. Just my opinion though.. Will give more hours of playing and tip rolling(probably wide bore) then see if sound will change..


Waiting for my ZS4 too. They look gorgeous and shape is best I`ve ever tried.


----------



## randomnin

Zerohour88 said:


> for @crinacle, the $350 Sennheiser IE80S is just 1 tier above the $15 KZ ZS3, let that sink in. Not sure what point you're trying to make here, but fact is, just let the sound do the talking. Sometimes people care too much about prestige or branding.


My point is that there are people here who have tried >500$ IEMs and say that these are barely better at technicalities, if at all, than <50$ Chi-Fi. Whilst that ranking (based exclusively on sound performance) reserves the top spots solely to hundred, mostly thousand, dollar stuff, and leaves everyone's favorite ZST one sub-ranking above "Bad". That's what I call a contradiction. Someone here is creating either a false sense of equality or a false unbridgeable gap between Chi-Fi and TOTL.


----------



## CoiL (Sep 25, 2018)

Sorry guys, but for me, ZS3 SQ was pretty much crap - heavy V-shape, boomy muddy bass, harsh highs, scooped out mids.
I have had 4 pairs of ZS3 - all basically same SQ, except  1 which had BQ problem - crushed sound shrink tube between nozzle and driver.


----------



## crinacle

randomnin said:


> My point is that there are people here who have tried >500$ IEMs and say that these are barely better at technicalities, if at all, than <50$ Chi-Fi. Whilst that ranking (based exclusively on sound performance) reserves the top spots solely to hundred, mostly thousand, dollar stuff, and leaves everyone's favorite ZST one sub-ranking above "Bad". That's what I call a contradiction. Someone here is creating either a false sense of equality or a false unbridgeable gap between Chi-Fi and TOTL.



I'd like to have a dialogue with the "people here who have tried >500$ IEMs and say that these are barely better at technicalities, if at all, than <50$ Chi-Fi" and try to hash it out with a proper back-and-forth.

I think that's a better solution than shoehorning me into two camps and trying to paint me as a bad guy instead of considering a very obvious third option: neither of the two.


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Sorry guys, but for me, ZS3 SQ was pretty much crap - heavy V-shape, boomy muddy bass, harsh highs, scooped out mids.
> I have had 4 pairs of ZS3 - all basically same SQ, except  1 which had BQ problem - crushed sound shrink tube between nozzle and driver.


Did you try the @Slater mod? [https://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs3-slater-mod/] 
I have two ZS3. The oldest pair is a matte black, no foams in the nozzles. Sounded just right from the box. All I did was change the red cloth grills for steel ones, verify if the venting holes were unobstructed and use wide bore tips. The sound improved drastically! I still use them on a regular basis. The newer ones are gloss black. They had foams in the nozzle. I removed them, along with the red mesh. They improved a little bit, but not as much as the older ones. Hence I have the impression the oldest ZS3 were the real deal, and to stay away from new iterations.


----------



## echineko

Spoiler






randomnin said:


> My point is that there are people here who have tried >500$ IEMs and say that these are barely better at technicalities, if at all, than <50$ Chi-Fi. Whilst that ranking (based exclusively on sound performance) reserves the top spots solely to hundred, mostly thousand, dollar stuff, and leaves everyone's favorite ZST one sub-ranking above "Bad". That's what I call a contradiction. Someone here is creating either a false sense of equality or a false unbridgeable gap between Chi-Fi and TOTL.





"Someone here" has also heard all of these IEMs before measuring and rating them according to his preferences. Not that I agree with all of it, but there is that...


----------



## CoiL

Mellowship said:


> Did you try the @Slater mod? [https://www.aproear.co.uk/kz-zs3-slater-mod/]
> I have two ZS3. The oldest pair is a matte black, no foams in the nozzles. Sounded just right from the box. All I did was change the red cloth grills for steel ones, verify if the venting holes were unobstructed and use wide bore tips. The sound improved drastically! I still use them on a regular basis. The newer ones are gloss black. They had foams in the nozzle. I removed them, along with the red mesh. They improved a little bit, but not as much as the older ones. Hence I have the impression the oldest ZS3 were the real deal, and to stay away from new iterations.


Of course I have tried it but to me they went even more unbearable regarding highs. Bass lost only little boominess but not much improvement. 
Still very V-shaped IEM. All my ZS3`s are glossy newer ones. 
Btw, I got much better result swapping ZS3 driver with ATE (5th gen) drivers.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Sep 25, 2018)

crinacle said:


> I'd like to have a dialogue with the "people here who have tried >500$ IEMs and say that these are barely better at technicalities, if at all, than <50$ Chi-Fi" and try to hash it out with a proper back-and-forth.
> 
> I think that's a better solution than shoehorning me into two camps and trying to paint me as a bad guy instead of considering a very obvious third option: neither of the two.



I do hope no one thinks that you're a bad guy, lol. Just pointing out that sometimes pricey doesn't mean good. Also people falling to the halo effect of bigger brands.



CoiL said:


> Of course I have tried it but to me they went even more unbearable regarding highs. Bass lost only little boominess but not much improvement.
> Still very V-shaped IEM. All my ZS3`s are glossy newer ones.
> Btw, I got much better result swapping ZS3 driver with ATE (5th gen) drivers.



I didn't mind the ZS3 or ZST, but I much preferred the ATR too


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Of course I have tried it but to me they went even more unbearable regarding highs. Bass lost only little boominess but not much improvement.
> Still very V-shaped IEM. All my ZS3`s are glossy newer ones.
> Btw, I got much better result swapping ZS3 driver with ATE (5th gen) drivers.


It seems like a good project for my glossy ZS3. What do you think of using the EDSE drivers instead? And do you recommend keeping the old shrinking tube, no tube or a better and stiffer PVC or metal tube from the driver to the nozzle?


----------



## HAMS

CoiL said:


> Of course I have tried it but to me they went even more unbearable regarding highs. Bass lost only little boominess but not much improvement.
> Still very V-shaped IEM. All my ZS3`s are glossy newer ones.
> Btw, I got much better result swapping ZS3 driver with ATE (5th gen) drivers.



No wonder, foam or filter function is to tame upper mid and highs it would not affect low mid and bass. Imo ZS3 only need less bass. I am thinking tin audio's reverse mod by bore small hole at the bottom of nozzles.


----------



## CYoung234

Just a heads up. I am travelling in the U.S. this week, and have 2 pairs of ZS5v1 for sale, if anyone is interested. These were purchased from Gearbest, and I would like to get what I paid for them back. Shoot me a PM. I would need to ship them before Saturday.


----------



## neo_styles

Looks like the AS10 will arrive today, so I'm pretty excited to test it out. Just keeping my fingers crossed for a better fit than the ZS10. Man, that was such a dealbreaker on an otherwise pretty solid pair of IEMs.

Then it's back to waiting on the T2 Pro, Koss KSC75X, and a cheapie pair of bone conduction headphones I found on Ali. I don't have a problem with collecting head-fi, I swear...


----------



## CoiL

Mellowship said:


> It seems like a good project for my glossy ZS3. What do you think of using the EDSE drivers instead? And do you recommend keeping the old shrinking tube, no tube or a better and stiffer PVC or metal tube from the driver to the nozzle?


Don`t know about EDSE drivers. Back a long time when I had them, didn`t like them much. With ATE driver modded into ZS3 shell You need somekind of other nozzle/or tube. And You can`t just use ATE drivers without tuning nozzle breathing hole and highs "filter" ...otherwise bass will be very loose/boomy/overshadowing and highs too harsh. But ATE driver is very good donor to get perfect fit and good sounding cheap IEMs.


HAMS said:


> No wonder, foam or filter function is to tame upper mid and highs it would not affect low mid and bass. Imo ZS3 only need less bass. I am thinking tin audio's reverse mod by bore small hole at the bottom of nozzles.


Actually. foam affects bass too by making it muffled/muddy and mids more muddy too.


----------



## randomnin

crinacle said:


> I'd like to have a dialogue with the "people here who have tried >500$ IEMs and say that these are barely better at technicalities, if at all, than <50$ Chi-Fi" and try to hash it out with a proper back-and-forth.
> 
> I think that's a better solution than shoehorning me into two camps and trying to paint me as a bad guy instead of considering a very obvious third option: neither of the two.


Oh, I don't know anything and currently have no strong opinions. I do admit that I tried to make others enter one side or another of a ring. But, yeah, for starters, @loomisjohnson said something like: "KZ ZSR and TRN V80 win over SE535 in technicalities after equalizing".


echineko said:


> "Someone here" has also heard all of these IEMs before measuring and rating them according to his preferences. Not that I agree with all of it, but there is that...


Other than your possibly perverted nickname, everything else went above my head, homerun style.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Wait, SkullCandys aren't TOTL?



TOTL = ????
Top of the what?

Sorry but i read this so many times and i still don't know what does it mean ahahaha


----------



## HungryPanda

Top of the Line


----------



## TLDRonin

I just bought a pair of second hand KZ ZS6s, and I'm honestly a little disappointed. Based on some reviews, I expected my ears to be bleeding within minutes of listening.....


But seriously, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong... I can hear up to 17 khz am, relatively young and don't hear the death treble. There's definitely A LOT of treble presence but not to the level of it causing physical pain as some people have claimed... In hindsight, I guess they were just hyperboles but the amount of people who said similar things made me think otherwise


----------



## loomisjohnson

randomnin said:


> Oh, I don't know anything and currently have no strong opinions. I do admit that I tried to make others enter one side or another of a ring. But, yeah, for starters, @loomisjohnson said something like: "KZ ZSR and TRN V80 win over SE535 in technicalities after equalizing".
> 
> Other than your possibly perverted nickname, everything else went above my head, homerun style.


now, i don't know crinacle but i read his thread and he seems very well informed. however, most of his highly-rated iems go easily to more than a grand, which is a level with which i am largely unfamiliar and therefore can express no opinion as to their  merits relative to the >$100-$200 models touted on the chifi threads. however, if you drop down to less stratospheric level i do continue believe that some of the cheapos outperform  a number of their exponentially more expensive western-branded models like shure, klipsch or sennheiser.


----------



## neo_styles

TLDRonin said:


> I just bought a pair of second hand KZ ZS6s, and I'm honestly a little disappointed. Based on some reviews, I expected my ears to be bleeding within minutes of listening.....
> 
> 
> But seriously, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong... I can hear up to 17 khz am, relatively young and don't hear the death treble. There's definitely A LOT of treble presence but not to the level of it causing physical pain as some people have claimed... In hindsight, I guess they were just hyperboles but the amount of people who said similar things made me think otherwise


Everybody's ears are just a bit different. I was really worried about the ZS6 coming across as harsh/fatiguing, but they get more use than any of my other KZ pairs (so far). Haven't had my ears stabbed by sound yet.


----------



## skajohyros

TLDRonin said:


> I just bought a pair of second hand KZ ZS6s, and I'm honestly a little disappointed. Based on some reviews, I expected my ears to be bleeding within minutes of listening.....
> 
> 
> But seriously, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong... I can hear up to 17 khz am, relatively young and don't hear the death treble. There's definitely A LOT of treble presence but not to the level of it causing physical pain as some people have claimed... In hindsight, I guess they were just hyperboles but the amount of people who said similar things made me think otherwise


I disabled one BA in each nozzle and still find them sssibilant. Just shows we all hear things very differently.


----------



## khighly (Sep 25, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> I just bought a pair of second hand KZ ZS6s, and I'm honestly a little disappointed. Based on some reviews, I expected my ears to be bleeding within minutes of listening.....
> 
> 
> But seriously, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong... I can hear up to 17 khz am, relatively young and don't hear the death treble. There's definitely A LOT of treble presence but not to the level of it causing physical pain as some people have claimed... In hindsight, I guess they were just hyperboles but the amount of people who said similar things made me think otherwise



People hear differently. There's absolutely zero sibilance on my ZS10's or AS10's, even highs rolled off, yet people will say they're sibilant. While the ZS6 is a screamer, it definitely isn't terrible and it's easy to get used to.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I don't know if I could handle ZS6. I can only hear to 14khz, and ZSA which is considered baby ZS6, is too trebley for me, for extended use. I guess it depends also what you listen too. There are an awful lot of horrendously mixed Punk, Metal, JPOP and JROCK albums that get crashy, splashy and imo unlistenable on treble forward phones. 

Still kinda want one though(ZS6) because they look dope AF.

On the flip side, all I ever hear is how ZST is treble hot and sibilant, but I have never heard that out of mine. ZSA is borderline, but ZST, doesn't bother me.

This hobby is kinda stupid LOL


----------



## TLDRonin

neo_styles said:


> Everybody's ears are just a bit different. I was really worried about the ZS6 coming across as harsh/fatiguing, but they get more use than any of my other KZ pairs (so far). Haven't had my ears stabbed by sound yet.


Oh yeah, I always "knew" people hear differently, but this really put things into perspective.


----------



## randomnin

BadReligionPunk said:


> I don't know if I could handle ZS6. I can only hear to 14khz, and ZSA which is considered baby ZS6, is too trebley for me, for extended use. I guess it depends also what you listen too. There are an awful lot of horrendously mixed Punk, Metal, JPOP and JROCK albums that get crashy, splashy and imo unlistenable on treble forward phones.
> 
> Still kinda want one though(ZS6) because they look dope AF.
> 
> ...


Wait, wasn't treble supposed to get crashy, splashy and helter-skelter and all?
Also, I concur that this hobby is kinda stupid, or, at the very least, confusing.


----------



## Storyteller (Sep 25, 2018)

I am trebble-sensitive. My Tin Audio T2's are a bit sibilant in some tracks, I can notice it every time. I noticed piercing highs in My C630 (CI880) months ago even though I liked them very much in general. I've been using ZS6 for 3 months now without trebble pierce or sibilance after the first test-period week. Trying them for the first time was terrible, excruciating trebble. After some days using them, putting Comply foams, a new cable and blocking the vents with blu-tack, no harshness in the highs, no sibilance, fun and energetic sound every evening. This hobby is nuts.


----------



## pbui44

After paying $17 for ONE pair of authentic Sony noise-isolation M-size ear tips and $5 shipping to have them in 5”x7”x3” box...I was able to change the Audeze Cypher settings even further on my ZSA and drop the overall sound 4db and 2db...and I my ZSAs have never sounded even better.  Now, I can hear acoustic nuances that I could previously hear so audibly on electrostatics, like my SR-L500.  Yet, they still have the same fun sound, just in a flatter and more Cypher-opamp-appropriated sound.  I can also show my impressions of this $100-total setup in one cult-pop song:

For US listeners:


For UK listeners:


For female vocalist fans:


----------



## Slater (Sep 25, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> On the flip side, all I ever hear is how ZST is treble hot and sibilant, but I have never heard that out of mine. ZSA is borderline, but ZST, doesn't bother me.
> 
> This hobby is kinda stupid LOL





randomnin said:


> Wait, wasn't treble supposed to get crashy, splashy and helter-skelter and all?
> Also, I concur that this hobby is kinda stupid, or, at the very least, confusing.



Source, as well as amping, does make a difference on some gear.

I am demoing a really nice quad driver right now.

It definitely sounds different on my iPhone (worse) than on my xduoo X3 (better). And it sounds different when amped too (even better); the more power the better it sounds.

So give it a try on some different sources, and you may be surprised. I know I was.

You can’t just go by the manufacturer’s impedance specification (ie 16ohm = automatically fine for phone). You really should try the gear on different sources and with an amp see if there is a difference.


----------



## sino8r (Sep 26, 2018)

Has anyone gotten the AS10s and tried taming the highs yet? I've tried the traditional foam tips and the difference is negligible. I went in the tip bores, removed the screen, and tried bits of cotton in different chambers. I figured out the bass one rather easily but the mid and high chamber is a bit different. They seem to be housed in a different chamber. I can identify at least two visible armatures with one being slightly more viewable. I tried plugging the top, more visible one and the lower one that is slightly shorter or less visible. Soundwise, I can't tell a difference between the two areas being plugged. There is a noticeable sound difference when plugging the high or lower sides and most definitely the bass side but not enough to say it's helping. To be honest, these sound like slightly bassier ZS6s or ZS10 with more treble. Which is a good thing but since using Sennheisers and the R*von*xt QT2 (which are quite much darker) the KZs are too much treble for me. I tried looking at the diagram of the AS10 drivers but I'm not sure... Thanks for any help!

Update... I found a teardown of the AS10 on youtube and it seems like the more visible armature is the mids. I'm gonna block the upper, more recessed chamber on that side a bit more and see if I get better results.  I will share them if anyone is interested.


----------



## TLDRonin

Anyone have issues with a loose connector seat on the KZ ZS6s? 

My left side is sturdy, but the right side is loose enough that I can jiggle the plastic part of the cable when connected. Is this serious enough to warrant a return? I bought it second hand and described as "no damage"


----------



## sino8r

TLDRonin said:


> Anyone have issues with a loose connector seat on the KZ ZS6s?
> 
> My left side is sturdy, but the right side is loose enough that I can jiggle the plastic part of the cable when connected. Is this serious enough to warrant a return? I bought it second hand and described as "no damage"



Several of my KZ's do this. No biggie unless your audio is going in and out. You can always pop off the housing cover and use a spacer or a dab of epoxy to steady the connector.


----------



## audionab

can anyone recommend a good value cable for kz zs4?


----------



## Lothar101

audionab said:


> can anyone recommend a good value cable for kz zs4?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...551.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48574c4dqo4qdE This one should work on the ZS4 as well. I have this on my ED16s and it works great.


----------



## CoiL

sino8r said:


> Has anyone gotten the AS10s and tried taming the highs yet? I've tried the traditional foam tips and the difference is negligible. I went in the tip bores, removed the screen, and tried bits of cotton in different chambers. I figured out the bass one rather easily but the mid and high chamber is a bit different. They seem to be housed in a different chamber. I can identify at least two visible armatures with one being slightly more viewable. I tried plugging the top, more visible one and the lower one that is slightly shorter or less visible. Soundwise, I can't tell a difference between the two areas being plugged. There is a noticeable sound difference when plugging the high or lower sides and most definitely the bass side but not enough to say it's helping. To be honest, these sound like slightly bassier ZS6s or ZS10 with more treble. Which is a good thing but since using Sennheisers and the R*von*xt QT2 (which are quite much darker) the KZs are too much treble for me. I tried looking at the diagram of the AS10 drivers but I'm not sure... Thanks for any help!
> 
> Update... I found a teardown of the AS10 on youtube and it seems like the more visible armature is the mids. I'm gonna block the upper, more recessed chamber on that side a bit more and see if I get better results.  I will share them if anyone is interested.



Waiting for Your feedback on highs after blocking highs BA.

Still, another contraverse opinion on AS10. You probably have very good hearing too.


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## CoiL (Sep 26, 2018)

Just got my ZS4 in red.

They look really gorgeous in red (looks almost same color as my IT01 red side).
Fit is perfect, even better than ZS3 due to more seamless shell split-line. Also nozzle lip and nozzle itself is better.

*OOTB*, with smallest starline tips, they sound just ok. No wow effect (coming from IT01 modded).
Definitely level lower SQ than IT01 and pretty much typical V-shaped KZ. Mids are not so muddy and cavernous as ZS3 but lack of coherent transition from mids to highs is easily noticeable.
Highs from BA are easily noticeable dissected from mids/upper-mids and have littlebit sibilance with words containing S`s and hi-hat/cymbals have littlebit unnatural "tingly,zizzly" sound (note that I`m sensitive to FR around 6.2-7.5kHz).
Also, not sure yet but lower mid-bass seems littlebit boomy (but quite clean) and little raised over lower bass. Though, percussion and tightness is quite ok also.

Will let them play for some time behind proper amping juice and see if they will settle @ highs and become more balanced/coherent.

Anyway, shells are very good material for modding and I`ll probably disassemble my ZS4.


----------



## hydroid

CoiL said:


> Just got my ZS4 in red.
> 
> They look really gorgeous in red (looks almost same color as my IT01 red side).
> Fit is perfect, even better than ZS3 due to more seamless shell split-line. Also nozzle lip and nozzle itself is better.
> ...



Finally you already got your ZS4. Tried mine with the whirlwind wire bore tips of the tennmak piano and somewhat lessen the thundering bass. It sounds ok as well with my Zishan Z1 dap with burson v5id opamp. I think the ZS4 compliments well with bright sounding sources.I had the same experience when using ZS4 then gets back to my IT01. It feels like, the light finally conquers the darkness...lol


----------



## CoiL

Well, my modded DX5X is quite powerful (80mA per channel) and neutral sided signature with slight warmth - I wouldn`t say ZS4 fits well with bright-sided source as I think it will "boost" even more "dissected sibilant" highs. Though, it will probably clear littlebit FR area from low-bass to lower-mids, that You`re right about.
Wide bore tips don`t seem to affect much ZS4 sound and I think there isn`t much to be done about highs BA "dissected" sound from high-mids/mids. Transition isn`t just smooth and clogging up BA hole with filter won`t help to "remove" that issue, rather just tame sibilance.


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## Slater (Sep 26, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Well, my modded DX5X is quite powerful (80mA per channel) and neutral sided signature with slight warmth - I wouldn`t say ZS4 fits well with bright-sided source as I think it will "boost" even more "dissected sibilant" highs. Though, it will probably clear littlebit FR area from low-bass to lower-mids, that You`re right about.
> Wide bore tips don`t seem to affect much ZS4 sound and I think there isn`t much to be done about highs BA "dissected" sound from high-mids/mids. Transition isn`t just smooth and clogging up BA hole with filter won`t help to "remove" that issue, rather just tame sibilance.



True, the transition isn't perfect. I doubt they are using any crossover, and are just relying on the drovers themselves to mix. The midrange is the ZS4s biggest weakness, which is really unfortunate.

I think an optimal configuration would have been a DD driver + BA, or the SD driver + 2BA. Something that would provide stronger midrange a smoother transition between the drivers.

Sure, there's way better stuff out there (there always is). But the ZS4 is a solid value for $12. The cable (which would run $6 on its own), the awesome fit (for those it works for), and the fact that it is an upgrade to the ZS3 is its strengths.


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## C2thew (Sep 26, 2018)

Correct. the ZS4 does lack in the mids section but it is a significant improvement for the highs over the ZS3's.  The ZS4's aren't perfect, but are amazing as earplugs/working out but the mids are very far recessed compared to the bass.  The shells/isolation are what makes the ZS4 and the ZS3's shine.  They are great for working out with/isolation but not meant for high fidelity playback.

The stock starline tips for the ZS4's feel very flimsy and don't expand as much as the stock ZS3 eartips.


----------



## tripside

ZS4 with foam tips work well for me. Mid bass bleed can be cut down with EQ which cleans up the Mids considerably.


----------



## Strat Rider

jibberish said:


> After spending all day on planes and trains with the ZSR today, I do think there is comfort issue for me. The sharp point at the opposite side of the housing from the nozzle presses hard into my ear. I can twist the housing in a way that the point doesn't make contact with my ear, but, it's easy for it to shift into an uncomfortable position if you're moving around.
> 
> Looks like the ZS4 has that exact same shape on that side of the housing as well



I had the same issue wirh the ZSR. 
In my case the housing hit my ear before I got a seal. 
When I was tip rolling I started to insert a keyboard O-Ring prior to fitting the tip. 
For me the best combo was Auvio wide bore and a single ring. The nozzles on the ZSR are long enough to stack more than 1 ring if needed. 
Once that comfort issue was addressed  the ZSR is now one of my favorite KZ's.


----------



## antdroid

Too many posts to reply to but I just want to put this out there on why some earphones may sound sibilant vs other's people's impressions. It does depend on what music you listen to, the quality of the recording, etc. Some music is more prone to sibilant than others. With the ZS6, I found it fine for some genres, but death for others. 

The AS10, I don't find harsh at all, especially compared to the ZS5/6. I wish the treble was more extended to balance out the sound more.

And while some of these cheaper Chinese brands are doing good job competing with sub $100 IEMs, they are not on the same level as something more expensive than that. Maybe some overpriced brands like Beats, or medicore Sony's, Boses, etc, but I find it hard to believe, from my own listening and owning of cheap and expensive gear, that KZ is comparable to things I've listened to from more expensive products. They are 85-90% there. It's the last 10% that's always the hardest though.

That said, the BGVP DMG I am listening to now, is really good. It's $139, but it sounds like something worth $199 - $250.


----------



## Slater

C2thew said:


> Correct. the ZS4 does lack in the mids section but it is a significant improvement for the highs over the ZS3's.  The ZS4's aren't perfect, but are amazing as earplugs/working out but the mids are very far recessed compared to the bass.  The shells/isolation are what makes the ZS4 and the ZS3's shine.  They are great for working out with/isolation but not meant for high fidelity playback.



Exactly.

They are the next best thing to earplugs as far as isolation is concerned. No need for ANC or any of that business.

Perfect for mowing the lawn, housework, out in the garage workshop, working out, loud commutes on public transportation, etc. Sweat and dirt are not really a big deal, and if it ever does become a big deal you’re out $12.

Ultra high fidelity audiophile sound isn’t really needed in those situations. I mean in all reality, if you’re riding on a loud subway or mowing the lawn, you’re not even going to be able to really enjoy the fidelity of Campfire Andromedas right? The ZS4 is plenty good enough in that case.


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## wind016

CoiL said:


> Interesting. I find AS10 mixed bag reading different reviews.
> Some find it U-shaped but with well balanced signature and no annoying peaks.
> Some find it V-shaped with recessed mids and some sibilance in highs.
> Some find it intimate soundstage while some think it is average.
> ...


 
I had friends listen to the AS10 and ZS10 together. Some people perceived the AS10 to be muddier yet still have more distortion in treble than the ZS10. Some friends also say the ZS10 "doesn't have bass". The people that thought the ZS10 lacked bass also did not note treble distortion in the AS10


----------



## Adide

wind016 said:


> I had friends listen to the AS10 and ZS10 together. Some people perceived the AS10 to be muddier yet still have more distortion in treble than the ZS10. Some friends also say the ZS10 "doesn't have bass". The people that thought the ZS10 lacked bass also did not note treble distortion in the AS10



ZS10 has too much mid bass and very much lacks sub-bass.
After my ears treble also needs eq (cut lower, raise upper).
Basically it's U-shaped tuned oob with heavy rolloffs at both ends.

But it's a very technical IEM with amateurish tuning which luckily obeys eq well and the U-shaped tuning can be successfully flatened.

If one doesn't mind eqing then fixing the tonality rewards a nice surprise eventually.


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## sino8r (Sep 26, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Waiting for Your feedback on highs after blocking highs BA.
> 
> Still, another contraverse opinion on AS10. You probably have very good hearing too.



I don't know about good hearing but very little loss yet. Probably too many rock concerts and loud car audio systems in my youth didn't help much either. I did find that blocking the high/mid chamber just halfway in high section of does help a bit. You can block the entire higher register section since the tips do contain a plastic channel but it's a it like blocking a tweeter with foam. It's gonna tame the highs but you definitely lose clarity. I'm stick experimenting with it some but so far it helped somewhat without muffling the sound. The answer was be a smaller amount over the entire highs/mids section. We shall see... It does make me curious to how the BA10s sound and while I do love the metal construction, they don't fit me that well included the ZS6. They always end up unseating. The ZSAs are the one the few metal ones that fit nicely. I guess we'll have to wait for more reviews on the BA10s.


----------



## B9Scrambler

sino8r said:


> I don't know about good hearing but very little loss yet. Probably too many rock concerts and loud car audio systems in my youth didn't help much either. I did find that blocking the high/mid chamber just halfway in high section of does help a bit. You can block the entire higher register section since the tips do contain a plastic channel but it's a it like blocking a tweeter with foam. It's gonna tame the highs but you definitely lose clarity. I'm stick experimenting with it some but so far it helped somewhat without muffling the sound. The answer was be a smaller amount over the entire highs/mids section. We shall see... It does make me curious to how the BA10s sound and while I do love the metal construction, they don't fit me that well included the ZS6. They always end up unseating. The ZSAs are the one the few metal ones that fit nicely. I guess we'll have to wait for more reviews on the BA10s.



BA10 fits like a big ZSA. If you're fine with those, chances are the BA10 will be okay too.


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## sino8r

Adide said:


> ZS10 has too much mid bass and very much lacks sub-bass.
> After my ears treble also needs eq (cut lower, raise upper).
> Basically it's U-shaped tuned oob with heavy rolloffs at both ends.
> 
> ...



I always felt like the problem with ZS10s were the vocals felt recessed. The mids and bass sounded good to me. They sound alot like the AS10s except the treble is cranked up like most KZ models lately. I will admit since using darker sets lately, the ZS10s sound alot better than in the past. They are really great for TV, movies, & videos. Music, not as much. I guess it's just what you're used to...


----------



## sino8r

B9Scrambler said:


> BA10 fits like a big ZSA. If you're fine with those, chances are the BA10 will be okay too.



Thanks! I wonder if it was the size that made it fit though? I can always grab it from Amazon and return easily if they don't. Might have to check them out. Have you tried the AS10s? If so, how are the highs in comparison to the BA10s?


----------



## B9Scrambler

sino8r said:


> Thanks! I wonder if it was the size that made it fit though? I can always grab it from Amazon and return easily if they don't. Might have to check them out. Have you tried the AS10s? If so, how are the highs in comparison to the BA10s?



It's certainly possible. I have the AS10's too. I personally find the tunes very similar. Highs on the are BA10 slightly more elevated but more importantly, tighter and cleaner sound. IMO of course. Others will disagree.


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## Slater (Sep 26, 2018)

Adide said:


> ZS10 has too much mid bass and very much lacks sub-bass.
> After my ears treble also needs eq (cut lower, raise upper).
> Basically it's U-shaped tuned oob with heavy rolloffs at both ends.
> 
> ...



Has anyone tinkered with the crossover components yet? @CoiL? @hakuzen?

I know a Japanese (I think) guy added DIP switches, but I'm pretty sure that was just to turn individual drivers on and off. I'm talking about tweaking the tuning frequencies via the crossover resistors/capacitors.

With the ZS10 having a decent dynamic driver, it should be capable of producing sub bass that would please just about anyone.


----------



## zazaboy

Recently there is a hype with kz as10. Which maybe is value if you look at price point.Now comes the question of the year kz as10 or kz ba10. would like to know the differences.

Looking for a hard hitting iems easy to drive bassheavy iem maybe kz zs4 if they are not too bright like kz zs6.


----------



## B9Scrambler

zazaboy said:


> Recently there is a hype with kz as10. Which maybe is value if you look at price point.Now comes the question of the year *kz as10 or kz ba10*. would like to know the differences.
> 
> Looking for a hard hitting iems easy to drive bassheavy iem maybe kz zs4 if they are not too bright like kz zs6.



AS10. Performance is similar (though not quite as good imo) and comfort is less an issue. Price is much less.


----------



## antdroid

I posted my review of the BA10 over the weekend. I know my opinion has differed from B9Scrambler on it. We usually share similar opinions I think - at least judging from reading his reviews on IEMs I have listened to. 

I found the BA10 to be a lot darker than the AS10, though the treble response is similar. That makes the treble sound harsher to me. The bass had good low end rumble and seemed elevated. Sometimes getting muddy. I posted my review on my website (in my sig) and also in the Head-Fi HeadGear Review section.

The BA10 didnt fit me, at all. I tried over a dozen tips and tried it cable up and cable down. I couldnt get past the size. It was too large and the corners were just a bit too square and sharp for my ears. 

As of today, I find the AS10 the best KZ product. It's still not as good as some other chinese branded IEMs though. I would take the T2, T2 Pro, TRN V80 over any of the KZ products right now with T2 Pro standing out from the rest. That said, I prefer neutral with a slight leaning towards bright sound signature. To give more perspective, my collection of headphones include the HE560, Focal Elex, and Audeze Sine/Mobius, which are all relatively neutral and slightly bright sounding headphones.


----------



## Cinder (Sep 26, 2018)

I just had my first listen with the KZ AS10, here are my impressions:

The AS10 is a V-shaped IEM with a warm tilt in its midrange. Its lower-midrange performance is pretty good, but the upper midrange (where some cymbals and high-hats live) seems pretty quiet. I'll have to let my brain burn in some more to see whether or not this turns out to be an issue that with the IEM or if it's just my ears being finicky. That said, I'm surprised how much punch the AS10's bass gets out of its balanced-armature drivers.

I gotta say though, I'm really digging the cable that it comes with. Excellent build quality that I didn't really expect to see in a KZ IEM after experiencing their (admittedly, much lower-priced) ZST and ZSR. Good on KZ for improving their cables in their higher-tier offerings.

Something that is a bit confusing, though, is that there's a lot of advertising out there, including on various Amazon listings, that mention the AS10 having a dynamic driver. This is made even stranger by the fact that the "exploded" view of the AS10 revels five BA drivers and zero dynamic drivers. Oh well, I suppose I'll chalk it up to Chinese marketers being Chinese marketers.


----------



## sino8r

Cinder said:


> I just had my first listen with the KZ AS10, here are my impressions:
> 
> The AS10 is a V-shaped IEM with a warm tilt in its midrange. Its lower-midrange performance is pretty good, but the upper midrange (where some cymbals and high-hats live) seems pretty quiet. I'll have to let my brain burn in some more to see whether or not this turns out to be an issue that with the IEM or if it's just my ears being finicky. That said, I'm surprised how much punch the AS10's bass gets out of its balanced-armature drivers.
> 
> ...



Lol! I just saw the same thing only for the listing of the BA10 on Amazon. It even described it as the AS10. Weird. You can watch a teardown of the AS10 on YouTube. By the looks of it, I doubt one can modify anything but the board or perhaps replace the clear shell front housing without destroying the entire iem. There is that much glue inside. Well worth watching!


----------



## CoiL (Sep 27, 2018)

antdroid said:


> As of today, I find the AS10 the best KZ product. It's still not as good as some other chinese branded IEMs though. I would take the T2, T2 Pro, TRN V80 over any of the KZ products right now with T2 Pro standing out from the rest. That said,* I prefer neutral with a slight leaning towards bright sound signature.* To give more perspective, my collection of headphones include the HE560, Focal Elex, and Audeze Sine/Mobius, which are all relatively neutral and slightly bright sounding headphones.





Cinder said:


> The AS10 is a *V-shaped IEM with a warm tilt in its midrange. Its lower-midrange performance is pretty good, but the upper midrange (where some cymbals and high-hats live) seems pretty quiet. *


So, from my understanding, AS10 will suit better for ppl who like little warmth in sound and are sensitive to upper-highs and highs? But then again - some say it has sibilance/harshness in highs?


----------



## baxuz

Slater said:


> There’s also a TRN BT10 cable, but no one has it yet to know if it’s ok or not.


I've just recieved mine, and it has a super-loud white noise present all the time. The BT3 had a small amount but this is basically unlistenable.
It's as loud as the music until you get to around 1/4 of the volume.


----------



## Slater (Sep 27, 2018)

baxuz said:


> I've just recieved mine, and it has a super-loud white noise present all the time. The BT3 had a small amount but this is basically unlistenable.
> It's as loud as the music until you get to around 1/4 of the volume.



That sounds defective friend. Mine have a silent background.

Maybe it’s your source? My Chromebook does crazy things with Bluetooth sometimes.

My BT3 is also fine with no noise.

What IEMs have you tried them with? Maybe it’s just not a good matchup?

Also, are you using aptX? Because I’m just using normal Bluetooth, as none of my sources have aptX.

The fact that it’s happening to both of your modules (to one degree or another), tells me it’s probably something else - source, codec, IEM, etc.


----------



## baxuz

Slater said:


> That sounds defective friend. Mine have a silent background.


Hopefully. I'd like to get another one but I'm afraid to.
https://twitter.com/_baxuz/status/1045057087775092739
I've tried capturing the audio directly but I'm not good enough in electronics/audio to find out where I'm going wrong.
If you could perhaps somehow capture the audio I'd be really thankful!


----------



## baxuz (Sep 27, 2018)

Slater said:


> Maybe it’s your source? My Chromebook does crazy things with Bluetooth sometimes.


Any source. Even without the source — "Power on" / "Power off" / "Pairing" sounds noisy.



Slater said:


> What IEMs have you tried them with? Maybe it’s just not a good matchup?


I'm playing it back on the TRN V80s. Don't have any other 2-pin headphones to test with, which is why I wanted to capture the direct audio output.



Slater said:


> Also, are you using aptX?


Yep.



Slater said:


> The fact that it’s happening to both of your modules (to one degree or another), tells me it’s probably something else - source, codec, IEM, etc.


I've tested both of them with no source, and different sources. The BT3s are connected to a TinAudio T2 via MMCX, and the BT10s to the V80s on a 2-pin.


----------



## Slater

baxuz said:


> Hopefully. I'd like to get another one but I'm afraid to.
> https://twitter.com/_baxuz/status/1045057087775092739
> I've tried capturing the audio directly but I'm not good enough in electronics/audio to find out where I'm going wrong.
> If you could perhaps somehow capture the audio I'd be really thankful!



I sent you a PM with details on how I would approach the situation. Hope it helps!


----------



## Slater

baxuz said:


> Any source. Even without the source — "Power on" / "Power off" / "Pairing" sounds noisy.
> 
> I'm playing it back on the TRN V80s. Don't have any other 2-pin headphones to test with, which is why I wanted to capture the direct audio output.
> 
> ...



I believe I see what you're saying.

If I pause a song, there is a very faint white noise sound for ~5 seconds and then the white noise sound cuts off and is dead silent (maybe a battery saving feature).

This is not all that uncommon with Bluetooth gear. It is very faint, and I don't really notice it (probably because I have mild tinnitus).

From what you're describing with the *BT3*, I would say we are talking about the same thing (ie a faint white noise sound).

However, since your BT10 white noise is much louder compared to the BT3, then I would say something is wrong. Because that faint sound is the same on my BT3 and BT10.


----------



## baxuz

Slater said:


> I believe I see what you're saying.
> 
> If I pause a song, there is a very faint white noise sound for ~5 seconds and then the white noise sound cuts off and is dead silent (maybe a battery saving feature).
> 
> ...


Actually, here's the audio I recorded:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kFWZvuxs2IKMBonFREEv4wgHtqxWz9oS/view?usp=sharing
The noise is not microphone noise.


----------



## audionab

I had a brief listening session with zs4 and es4 and here is my comparison-
es4 definitely sounded better than zs4 but when it comes to isolation and fit zs4 beats es4 by a mile
es4's sound had more weight to it than zs4 which is probably due to boosted treble of zs4
es4 has faster and punchier bass
zs4 has boomy mid bass and better sub bass presence but I feel the bass on es4 is superior quality
mids on es4 are not as recessed as zs4 but the mids on both iems sucks
definitely the highs on es4 is tuned better than zs4 the boosted treble on zs4 makes the highs sound unnatural and thinner overall sound


----------



## audionab

I think a BA change and some application of filters can help zs4 maybe
LoL


----------



## Slater

baxuz said:


> Actually, here's the audio I recorded:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kFWZvuxs2IKMBonFREEv4wgHtqxWz9oS/view?usp=sharing
> The noise is not microphone noise.



Yikes, that is really loud. It sounds like you have an old analog TV in the background, tuned into static between stations!

Imagine lowering that white noise sound ~90%, and that's what my BT3/BT10 sound like. It's there, but barely perceptible. Of course the wired cable is dead silent.


----------



## crabdog

For less than $20 the KZ ZS4 is a must-have. Enjoy 
https://primeaudio.org/kz-zs4-review/


----------



## neo_styles (Sep 27, 2018)

Looks like there's a sale on AE for the TRN BT10 from one of the sellers. Ended up ordering two pairs due to the discount so I could have one in MMCX and one in 0.75. 15 hours left:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...505.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.51ac4c4dfW5eMq

Also, the AS10 came in yesterday, so I'll be running it throughout today's commute and workday. Physical depth is surprisingly shallow in comparison to the ES4/ZS10, but they're still wide enough that they're an absolute no-go for wear while sleeping. Sound signature is also really bizarre in comparison to everything else I've used with KZ. Not necessarily bad, but something just feels...off. Doesn't sound to me like any of the BA's are miswired, so I'm hoping I can pinpoint exactly what it is after a little more time.

But the cable that came with it got ripped off almost immediately. It is more comfortable than the previous KZ pack-ins I've received, even with the memory wire, but the jack end provided a really loose connection with my phone and would cut out frequently with almost no movement. Plus it looks like they've put some sort of rubberized coating over the headphone jack. Really don't know why...



Spoiler


----------



## wind016

CoiL said:


> So, from my understanding, AS10 will suit better for ppl who like little warmth in sound and are sensitive to upper-highs and highs? But then again - some say it has sibilance/harshness in highs?



I agree with that sentiment. I personally prefer the ZS10 sonically. They handle EQ much better than the AS10 and the treble is rolled off just enough before being too sibilant unlike the AS10. At first I was disappointed that it didn't sound as intimate as the ZSR, but it sounds better with more genres. The thing is way too big tho. Hurts my ears.


----------



## Cinder

CoiL said:


> So, from my understanding, AS10 will suit better for ppl who like little warmth in sound and are sensitive to upper-highs and highs? But then again - some say it has sibilance/harshness in highs?



Yeah, I'd say it is well suited to those who want a warmer, but still V-shaped, sound signature. About the sibilance: I can't hear any. I am normally very sensitive to that sort of thing so I'd definitely be able to report it if it happened. Maybe it is due to bad compatibility with their sources? I'm using a Hidizs AP100.


----------



## CoiL

Cinder said:


> Yeah, I'd say it is well suited to those who want a warmer, but still V-shaped, sound signature. About the sibilance: I can't hear any. I am normally very sensitive to that sort of thing so I'd definitely be able to report it if it happened. Maybe it is due to bad compatibility with their sources? I'm using a Hidizs AP100.


Ok, but still why "about half" of AS10 owners report sibilance? Different hearing, source gear etc. ? Smartphone not powering up bass-mids BAs enough that highs BA becomes more prominent? IDK. Will wait for more reports about AS10 and do more reading before I even start to think about getting AS10.
I would be ok with V-shape if it is done well and knowing that AS10 has separate midrange BA makes me think it is tuneable(modable) to more balanced sounding with better mids presence.

Anyway, my bet is atm @ ZS7. Hopefully it will adopt also midrange BA.

Either AS10 or ZS7 ...I want to mod those BA`s into ZS4 shells ;P


----------



## Cinder

CoiL said:


> Ok, but still why "about half" of AS10 owners report sibilance? Different hearing, source gear etc. ? Smartphone not powering up bass-mids BAs enough that highs BA becomes more prominent? IDK. Will wait for more reports about AS10 and do more reading before I even start to think about getting AS10.
> I would be ok with V-shape if it is done well and knowing that AS10 has separate midrange BA makes me think it is tuneable(modable) to more balanced sounding with better mids presence.
> 
> Anyway, my bet is atm @ ZS7. Hopefully it will adopt also midrange BA.
> ...



Great question. I don't have a real answer for you, unfortunately. Given that this is KZ's first IEM with such a complicated crossover, and given KZ's very low sale margins, I'd imagine that the manufacturing tolerances for this IEM are quite loose. I want to get my hands on a "sibilant" pair of AS10s and A/B compare them to my pair. That way I'd have a more conclusive idea of whether or not it is a user problem or a manufacturing quirk.


----------



## parthabhatta

I have a KZ Bluetooth cable with type-b connectors (the angled type) for my ZS10 and ED12. Can I connect this to ZS5 or ZS6 or I have to buy the type-a connectors separately? In other words, are the connector types a and b, interchangeable?
Regards


----------



## neo_styles

parthabhatta said:


> I have a KZ Bluetooth cable with type-b connectors (the angled type) for my ZS10 and ED12. Can I connect this to ZS5 or ZS6 or I have to buy the type-a connectors separately? In other words, are the connector types a and b, interchangeable?
> Regards


They'll both fit, if that's what you're asking. I've found that some of my IEMs that require one type of connector seem to fit better to my ear/head shape than the other, but they'll both work.


----------



## wind016 (Sep 27, 2018)

Cinder said:


> Great question. I don't have a real answer for you, unfortunately. Given that this is KZ's first IEM with such a complicated crossover, and given KZ's very low sale margins, I'd imagine that the manufacturing tolerances for this IEM are quite loose. I want to get my hands on a "sibilant" pair of AS10s and A/B compare them to my pair. That way I'd have a more conclusive idea of whether or not it is a user problem or a manufacturing quirk.



I think it is fairly clear. It is most likely user hearing. You can see my comment previously. My friends that thought ZS10 had "no bass" also could not hear AS10 treble sibilance. It is with one pair of AS10, mine.

At this point, I only follow reviewers that hear the same sibilance as I do. It could be a genetic thing, like hating cilantro. 

My girlfriend prefers the AS10 and she doesn't have aged ears.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> I believe I see what you're saying.
> 
> If I pause a song, there is a very faint white noise sound for ~5 seconds and then the white noise sound cuts off and is dead silent (maybe a battery saving feature).
> 
> ...



I can confirm both my BT3 and bt10 sound the same as far as white noise goes. Extremely minimal, not noticeable at all. I might hear it between a song playing or call or video for half a second but then it goes away. Definitely, not normal.


----------



## sino8r (Sep 27, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Ok, but still why "about half" of AS10 owners report sibilance? Different hearing, source gear etc. ? Smartphone not powering up bass-mids BAs enough that highs BA becomes more prominent? IDK. Will wait for more reports about AS10 and do more reading before I even start to think about getting AS10.
> I would be ok with V-shape if it is done well and knowing that AS10 has separate midrange BA makes me think it is tuneable(modable) to more balanced sounding with better mids presence.
> 
> Anyway, my bet is atm @ ZS7. Hopefully it will adopt also midrange BA.
> ...



I could buy into this. Power source could totally be an issue. Many of us use the TRN bluetooths. I almost exclusively use mine. When I do use wired, I don't use an amp. Could be that the larger BAs are underpowered. I don't really seem to have that issue with the dynamic drivers. I wonder if a larger BA requires more juice? I'm definitely no expert in audio but have been an end-user of early bluetooth, larger home stereos, and custom car audio for many years. I'm still fairly new to iems though.

Oh! One other thing... What do y'all think of TFZ? Are they similar to ibasso or something? Single large graphine drivers. I just grabbed the TFZ Queen and the KZ BA10. Gonna try and compare those the AS10 and return the rest. My iems are starting to pile up and have gotten to the point where I'm going to have to give some away to friends and family. Too many of my KZs sound similar and it's getting rather redundant.


----------



## baxuz (Sep 28, 2018)

Tonight, I finally managed to debug the darn thing. I unsoldered and desoldered all cables to see if there was any bridging present. None.

I then connected the earphone pins to a female 3-pole 3.5 mm adapter (combined L/R ground) and procedeed to debug multiple headphones and inputs.

Here's what I found out:
Compared to the BT3s, the BT10s have a higher pitched noise which has a rhythmical/periodical component to it, making it more noticable, but it's not really louder.
The V80s pick up that noise like mad and seem to amp it up The Tin Audio T2s and Superlux HD381s manage just fine, almost the same as the BT3s.
The Mic-in/Line-in inputs on my PC and amp don't give a rat's ass about the noise and seem to cancel it out somehow.

Of course, connecting the V80s via a 3.5mm jack directly to my phone / PC / amp result in absolutely no noise present and much higher quality audio.

Another thing I noticed is that the pattern/frequency of the BT10s changes a bit depending on if I have both or a single headphone plugged in. Maybe a voltage drop happens or something. Maybe the V80s "dirty" up the signal when they return to ground causing some sort of feedback.

Sadly I don't understand all the HI-FI electronic lingo like impedance, ohms, balanced/unbalanced, etc so that I could pinpoint the cause.

Seems to me that all these chi-fi bluetooth headsets have some inherent flaw in the electronics which may or may not manifest depending on your component combinations.


----------



## Devodonaldson

sino8r said:


> I always felt like the problem with ZS10s were the vocals felt recessed. The mids and bass sounded good to me. They sound alot like the AS10s except the treble is cranked up like most KZ models lately. I will admit since using darker sets lately, the ZS10s sound alot better than in the past. They are really great for TV, movies, & videos. Music, not as much. I guess it's just what you're used to...


Interesting impressions. I am an iSine 20, Nighthawk, and Nightowl user, so the ZS10 sounds great to me. Using Symbio tips


----------



## antdroid (Sep 27, 2018)

I don't think I ever posted these photos, but here's a look at how the two new KZ's look on a fake ear   (BA10, ZSA, AS10)


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> I don't think I ever posted these photos, but here's a look at how the two new KZ's look on a fake ear   (BA10, ZSA, AS10)



That BA10 looks uncomfortable as heck. What was KZ thinking??


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> That BA10 looks uncomfortable as heck. What was KZ thinking??



Yea. Opinions may differ because everyone has different ear sizes and shapes, but even though the AS10 is slightly larger, it is more comfortable to me than the BA10. If you click to enlarge the BA10 photo, you'll see why I complain about the square edges and it's contact point to my ears. If you're an engineer, you'll understand what a point load (BA10) is vs a distributed load (AS10) but even if you're not, it's pretty easy to see that for some people who are smaller, the BA10's corners may jab you.


----------



## SHAMuuu

Chinese ebay seller sent replacement zs10 since first pair was DOA. 

Pleasantly surprised even after 10 days of use (couple of hours per day). Even slept in them! 
More balanced than i expected, and i guess this is due to their separated bores of the dynamic driver and dual BA/bore for the other two bores. Anyway this was shown by TechmanZ on youtube who took it apart.
Chi-fi miracle? In a way for its sub 50 bones msrp, yep.

Problems? Yessir. The thing is fat as hell; and , this combined with a short nozzle is a  big no no.

Silicone or rubber tips provided once warmed up in the ear become slippery and slip out easier compared to foam tips. So foam tips is the way to go i thought.

Tried 4 diff types: Comply. KingYou, misodiko, and super bee

The winners were comply and KingYou. KingYou is pricey but i find them best with ZS10. They keep the iem from popping out.

YMMV


----------



## carltonh

The ES4 is quite good. There is a peak at 12.5Khz that can be fatiguing, but I EQ it down and so I still find it great. But to compare, the Uiisii CM5 is still cheaper (in America on Amazon) and iks still better and a flatter, more natural response. Not that I'm complaining, as I don't think you can find any hybrid or otherwise earphone better than the CM5 for the price... But double up to $30 on a slowboat plus an EQ down at 3Khz for the ZS10, and you have a whole different ball game.


----------



## Joong

As10 and Ba10 are the cream of the crop in the KZs?


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> Yea. Opinions may differ because everyone has different ear sizes and shapes, but even though the AS10 is slightly larger, it is more comfortable to me than the BA10. If you click to enlarge the BA10 photo, you'll see why I complain about the square edges and it's contact point to my ears. If you're an engineer, you'll understand what a point load (BA10) is vs a distributed load (AS10) but even if you're not, it's pretty easy to see that for some people who are smaller, the BA10's corners may jab you.



Agreed. I mean, my ear hurts just looking at the photo. Obviously, it will fit some people OK and others not OK. But I just figured KZ learned their lesson with the ZS5, as they smoothed out the sharp angles for the ZS6.


----------



## Slater

Joong said:


> As10 and Ba10 are the cream of the crop in the KZs?



Depends on what you want.

Each KZ has their strengths and weaknesses. Their flagships aren't always the "best", depending on what you are interested in.

Some people want the "best KZ" for soundstage, or for a certain budget. Others want the "best KZ" for low-fi sources, or use with a bluetooth cable. Still others want the "best KZ" for comfortable fit, or a model that is worn down vs up.

So maybe give us a little more information about what you want, and then we can tell you what may be "the best"


----------



## Joong (Sep 28, 2018)

Slater said:


> Depends on what you want.
> 
> Each KZ has their strengths and weaknesses. Their flagships aren't always the "best", depending on what you are interested in.
> 
> ...


This thread is the best place, due to the cost difference being small enough among phones, for showing that "generally there are no good or bad phones but different phones".
Correctly, There are no good or bad phones but expensive or inexpensive phones.
Thanks for your insight.


----------



## Aparker2005

Just saw kz post the ZSN hybrid. Any idea on what that is?


----------



## Makahl (Sep 28, 2018)

Aparker2005 said:


> Just saw kz post the ZSN hybrid. Any idea on what that is?





>



Looks like a fancy ZST with metal nozzle and faceplate. I couldn't find the driver configuration but I'd expect new drivers too.


----------



## audionab

Makahl said:


> Looks like a fancy ZST with metal nozzle and faceplate. I couldn't find the driver configuration but I'd expect new drivers too.


i am predicting that these pairs will be treble cannons


----------



## khighly

Cinder said:


> Great question. I don't have a real answer for you, unfortunately. Given that this is KZ's first IEM with such a complicated crossover, and given KZ's very low sale margins, I'd imagine that the manufacturing tolerances for this IEM are quite loose. I want to get my hands on a "sibilant" pair of AS10s and A/B compare them to my pair. That way I'd have a more conclusive idea of whether or not it is a user problem or a manufacturing quirk.


I would bet it's wildly varying capacitor/resistor values using cheap low tolerance components. They work fine, but can swing +-10%. They should be hand picked and measured, but I doubt they are at the margins they're running at.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I would bet it's wildly varying capacitor/resistor values using cheap low tolerance components. They work fine, but can swing +-10%. They should be hand picked and measured, but I doubt they are at the margins they're running at.



Agreed. Some nice melf resistors would do wonders.


----------



## wind016

sino8r said:


> I could buy into this. Power source could totally be an issue. Many of us use the TRN bluetooths. I almost exclusively use mine. When I do use wired, I don't use an amp. Could be that the larger BAs are underpowered. I don't really seem to have that issue with the dynamic drivers. I wonder if a larger BA requires more juice? I'm definitely no expert in audio but have been an end-user of early bluetooth, larger home stereos, and custom car audio for many years. I'm still fairly new to iems though.
> 
> Oh! One other thing... What do y'all think of TFZ? Are they similar to ibasso or something? Single large graphine drivers. I just grabbed the TFZ Queen and the KZ BA10. Gonna try and compare those the AS10 and return the rest. My iems are starting to pile up and have gotten to the point where I'm going to have to give some away to friends and family. Too many of my KZs sound similar and it's getting rather redundant.



I got the TFZ Exclusive Kings. They are awesome. They perform about as good as the ZS10 to me but more comfortable. There is a big treble peak I need to EQ out. But the treble doesnt get that distorted. Its just loud. May buy a Tone king next. I'm just trying to find a detailed, comfortable, nonsibilant, affordable Iem. It is hard but fun.



Joong said:


> As10 and Ba10 are the cream of the crop in the KZs?


I add ZS10 to that. To me it is more detailed than the AS10.


----------



## C2thew (Sep 28, 2018)

holy crap i just had a revelation.......

(using lg v20 which has a high quality dac)

THE ZS10's and the TRN BT3 are a match made in heaven.  The recessed mids of the ZS10's are pulled forward when paired with the TRN bluetooth headphones.  I mean the sound suddenly comes alive!!!!   It almost sounds like a ZS3 with less bass but a huge amount of detail. The ZS10's become much more pleasant to listen to compared to when they are wired.

If anyone has the ZS10's with the TRN BT3, you will understand that there is a huge bump in sound quality.  I just didn't realize it was this much.

The ZS6's on the other hand...  meh.  Regretful purchase that I would not do again.  I can't go back to those ever again.

I'll go ahead and test the BT3's with my old ultimate ears triple fi 10 and report back.


----------



## khighly

C2thew said:


> The ZS6's on the other hand...  meh.  Regretful purchase that I would not do again.  I can't go back to those ever again.



I'll take them!


----------



## Mellowship

The ZS4 arrived. 

 

First impressions:

Didn't lost time with the cable, put them on the cable I was using with my ZS5, startline tips on, Hidizs Sonata USB-C DAC to smartphone. 
Got to take them off in less than a minute.

Only time it happened was with the ED12.

Awfull.

Extreme sibilance. 

The kind you can't manage.

Got home, gave it another try with foam tips and my main DAP, the FiiO X3 II.

They are quite enjoyable. Sibilance is gone for the most part. 

Bass is strong like ZS3 strong, but doesn't cut into the mids. It has more subbass than ZS3 and less midbass. 

Mids are good with the somewhat midcentric FiiO. But are slightly recessed. Male voices seem a little far away. Female are there, but not as lush as with the ATE v1. 

Higs are quite good. They amount for a spatious and well defined presentation. Lots of detail. Thanks to the BA, I guess. 

First impressions are that it is a V-shaped fun sounding pair of very comfy, very isolating earphones, but might be source dependant. And tip dependant. I am still afraid to try them again with the Sonata. 

The nozzles are very different from the ZS3 indeed. They are narrower but with a fat lip. 

Let's see what comes from this...


----------



## Mellowship

Mellowship said:


> The ZS4 arrived.
> 
> 
> First impressions:
> ...


Update:
Don't know what was wrong with the Hidizs Sonata when I tried it sooner, but I don't hear the same excruciating sibilance now. I remember when I connected it to the smartphone, it froze for some seconds, which it never did before. A faulty connection?
I am listening to the ZS4 now through the Sonata, went through 2 typically sibilant but excellent albums (Us, Peter Gabriel; Graceland, Paul Simon), and everything is fine, sibilance is what I would expect with just any other earphone.
So, my bad. I find the ZS4 very enjoyable, really. That feeling when using the ZS3 and thinking "this is so comfy, I wish it had a more resolving sound", is finally tamed.


----------



## wind016

C2thew said:


> holy crap i just had a revelation.......
> 
> (using lg v20 which has a high quality dac)
> 
> ...



That explains a lot. I use all my IEMs with the TRN BT3 and APTX setting. I agree with the ZS6. I don't even remember where I put them. Are the ZS10 mids even that recessed? I didn't like the ZS10 at first because I felt it sounded more distant but I just think it has to do with having a larger soundstage than most IEMs.


----------



## sino8r

wind016 said:


> I got the TFZ Exclusive Kings. They are awesome. They perform about as good as the ZS10 to me but more comfortable. There is a big treble peak I need to EQ out. But the treble doesnt get that distorted. Its just loud. May buy a Tone king next. I'm just trying to find a detailed, comfortable, nonsibilant, affordable Iem. It is hard but fun.
> 
> 
> I add ZS10 to that. To me it is more detailed than the AS10.



That's why I got the TFZ Queen. Supposedly, more dark than the rest and has more mids. I guess we'll see. I imagine they are all dark compared to KZ's being single graphene drivers. Too bad there isn't much info on them here or on their own site. They're more of a mystery than KZ for sure. I'd really wish these manufacturers would have better descriptions. All we can do now is buy them, read a review, or attempt to guess the sound by counting drivers. By Monday, I should have the BQEYZBQ3, TFZ Queen, BA10, and the AS10 I got this week. I'll try and give a comparison between all 4. You seem to like similar sound as myself so I'm sure you and some others might be interested. The BQEYZBQ3 and TFZ Queen are supposed to be bassy/mid centric. Not really sure about the BA10. I imagine it's similar to the AS10 but with all the conflicting reviews it's hard to say for sure. I'm really curious about how it will fit.


----------



## rfsux

Did KZ change their ZS10’s tuning in the past months? Do they sound the same as the pre-order ones?


----------



## jibberish

Came home to find the ZS4 had been delivered this week while I was out of town.  That. Bass. Tho.  

Seriously should be an instant recommendation for people looking for cheap basshead IEMs that are also very capable in all other regards -- they really slam.  As others have noted, the cable is really nice too.  Really looking forward to giving these a workout this weekend, not convinced on the proper tips for them quite yet.


----------



## tripside

jibberish said:


> Came home to find the ZS4 had been delivered this week while I was out of town.  That. Bass. Tho.
> 
> Seriously should be an instant recommendation for people looking for cheap basshead IEMs that are also very capable in all other regards -- they really slam.  As others have noted, the cable is really nice too.  Really looking forward to giving these a workout this weekend, not convinced on the proper tips for them quite yet.



Small size foam tips work well for me.


----------



## Mellowship

jibberish said:


> Came home to find the ZS4 had been delivered this week while I was out of town.  That. Bass. Tho.
> 
> Seriously should be an instant recommendation for people looking for cheap basshead IEMs that are also very capable in all other regards -- they really slam.  As others have noted, the cable is really nice too.  Really looking forward to giving these a workout this weekend, not convinced on the proper tips for them quite yet.



Yes they are bassy, in a good way.

While I use some sort of silicone tips in the ZS3, to "open up the sound" (presently some Rock Zircon in the oldest and better one, and Sony hibrids in the newest, for the ZS4 I went with foam tips a size smaller than what I usually wear, for this kind of shell needs to rotate a bit while inserting, unlike the zs5. With larger tips it wouldn't rotate to a perfect fitting. I just tried some silicone tips, a varied assortment of them, and the majority world harshen the sound around the 5-7khz. 

 
Here's the family! Notice the black exclusive pair of kz5 and the grey with kz usb-c DAC cable. Both are v1. 

Next kz will probably be the as10. When the price falls.


----------



## sino8r (Sep 29, 2018)

rfsux said:


> Did KZ change their ZS10’s tuning in the past months? Do they sound the same as the pre-order ones?



I don't think so. Some people were reporting that the mids come alive with a trn bt3 bluetooth set. I'm not sure I've experienced this because I've used the TRN bluetooth almost exclusively. I never thought the mids were lacking just vocals for me.


----------



## Dobrescu George

My take on KZ AS10! 

I think they are rather sweet, inexpensive IEMs with a nice texture, good detail, and overall great value  I invite you to read more in the full review  

https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.com/2018/09/kz-as10-improved-budget-performance.html


----------



## wind016

sino8r said:


> That's why I got the TFZ Queen. Supposedly, more dark than the rest and has more mids. I guess we'll see. I imagine they are all dark compared to KZ's being single graphene drivers. Too bad there isn't much info on them here or on their own site. They're more of a mystery than KZ for sure. I'd really wish these manufacturers would have better descriptions. All we can do now is buy them, read a review, or attempt to guess the sound by counting drivers. By Monday, I should have the BQEYZBQ3, TFZ Queen, BA10, and the AS10 I got this week. I'll try and give a comparison between all 4. You seem to like similar sound as myself so I'm sure you and some others might be interested. The BQEYZBQ3 and TFZ Queen are supposed to be bassy/mid centric. Not really sure about the BA10. I imagine it's similar to the AS10 but with all the conflicting reviews it's hard to say for sure. I'm really curious about how it will fit.



Yeah I heard people saying the BA10 sounds like the ZS6 in tuning. I can't wait to hear your impressions of the Queen and BA10!

Has anybody with sibilance sensitivity compared these Chinese IEMs to the Sony EX1000? Tyll made a YouTube review 7 years ago saying they are grainy sounding. I wonder how they are compared to the new Chi-fi stuff. The price now for them is comparable to Tonekings with 8 BA


----------



## sino8r

wind016 said:


> Yeah I heard people saying the BA10 sounds like the ZS6 in tuning. I can't wait to hear your impressions of the Queen and BA10!
> 
> Has anybody with sibilance sensitivity compared these Chinese IEMs to the Sony EX1000? Tyll made a YouTube review 7 years ago saying they are grainy sounding. I wonder how they are compared to the new Chi-fi stuff. The price now for them is comparable to Tonekings with 8 BA



The TFZ Queen arrived today. Sounds really tight and controlled. The soundstage is a bit smaller than we're used with the multidriver iems from KZ but they sound larger than the ZSAs. I brought a comparison to the ibasso and the folks in the TFZ thought they sounded similar. Probably the single graphene driver. The build quality is really amazing. They fit so nicely for metal iems. I'm not used to that. I'd say for a KZ comparison they sound similar to the ZS10 but with more forward vocals and slightly more treble. Very full sounding mids and bass. Not pounding bass but full. The BQEYZBQ3 arrived as well and sound similar to the ZS6 but with more bass. Very full sounding, alot of treble, mids, and bass but large shells. They are a great deal for someone who likes the ZS6 and fit them well. I'm always having to reseat my larger iems except the Queens, KS10, ZSA, and AS10s. The BA10s arrive Monday and excited to compare those to AS10. Hope they fit okay lol!


----------



## aspire5550

Just double confirming, is this the best bluetooth cable i can have for kz?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Earphone-2PIN-Cable-Use-For/32851070584.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

My final thoughts on the BA10: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/09/30/kz-ba10-just-like-that/


----------



## TheVortex

B9Scrambler said:


> My final thoughts on the BA10: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/09/30/kz-ba10-just-like-that/



Nice write up but I noticed a typo in the source and amping paragraph. It says AS10 but it should be BA10.


----------



## Cinder

khighly said:


> I would bet it's wildly varying capacitor/resistor values using cheap low tolerance components. They work fine, but can swing +-10%. They should be hand picked and measured, but I doubt they are at the margins they're running at.



Indeed. It's one of the most expensive parts of building a truly good crossover. I was speaking with the lead developer of Lark Studios about this exact problem and they say that they will sometimes go through ten or 20 combinations of resistors before they find some that produce results in line with the spec. Of course, that is to be expected with 10-driver-per-side IEMs and whatnot.


----------



## B9Scrambler

TheVortex said:


> Nice write up but I noticed a typo in the source and amping paragraph. It says AS10 but it should be BA10.



Thanks. Fixed.


----------



## wind016

sino8r said:


> The TFZ Queen arrived today. Sounds really tight and controlled. The soundstage is a bit smaller than we're used with the multidriver iems from KZ but they sound larger than the ZSAs. I brought a comparison to the ibasso and the folks in the TFZ thought they sounded similar. Probably the single graphene driver. The build quality is really amazing. They fit so nicely for metal iems. I'm not used to that. I'd say for a KZ comparison they sound similar to the ZS10 but with more forward vocals and slightly more treble. Very full sounding mids and bass. Not pounding bass but full. The BQEYZBQ3 arrived as well and sound similar to the ZS6 but with more bass. Very full sounding, alot of treble, mids, and bass but large shells. They are a great deal for someone who likes the ZS6 and fit them well. I'm always having to reseat my larger iems except the Queens, KS10, ZSA, and AS10s. The BA10s arrive Monday and excited to compare those to AS10. Hope they fit okay lol!



Nice comparison bro! I have almost the same comparison with the Exclusive Kings. In particular, the Exclusive Kings have a rather large 4k hz treble bump compared to the ZS10. About 5 db. Female vocals and cymbals are shouty without an EQ drop. I'll eventually have the itch to buy another pair, but enjoying these very much for now.


----------



## SSandDigital

Well seems KZ did everything I hoped they would do with BA10.  Use an uncomfortable shell.  V shaped nonsense again.  C'mon KZ, at least try for something with a balanced sound that is anatomically comfortable.


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## DocHoliday (Sep 30, 2018)

SSandDigital said:


> Well seems KZ did everything I hoped they would do with BA10.  Use an uncomfortable shell.  V shaped nonsense again.  C'mon KZ, at least try for something with a balanced sound that is anatomically comfortable.





 





Looking forward to the IEMs you've fashioned and released.


----------



## crinacle

DocHoliday said:


> Looking forward to the IEMs you've fashioned and released.



You don't need to be a chef to critique food. You don't need to be a musician to think a piece of music sounds bad. You don't need to know how to fly an airplane to know that a flaming plane wreck on the ground isn't normal. And best of all, *you don't need to know how to build a bloody IEM from scratch to know that an IEM is bad.*


----------



## rayliam80

B9Scrambler said:


> My final thoughts on the BA10: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/09/30/kz-ba10-just-like-that/



Thanks again for spending more time with the BA10. It'll probably sound crazy to most of you but _just maybe _the BA10 will work with triple flange tips? At least that's what I'm wondering every time they're mentioned. I'm leaning towards picking these up during the 11.11 sale. I just wish there were more color options. 

As far as the mids on the ZS10, in my case, here it goes: ZS10 -> triple flange tips -> 8 core silver plated cable -> iEmatch port on my iFi Nano BL (measure filter). 

Bass is slightly reduced putting them more into the background. Mids are brought to the front. But tone/timbre, especially in the vocals, isn't quite as definitive as something like the Ibasso IT01. Depth, soundstage and instrument separation is really good though. It's currently my favorite KZ setup.


----------



## Cinder

crinacle said:


> You don't need to be a chef to critique food. You don't need to be a musician to think a piece of music sounds bad. You don't need to know how to fly an airplane to know that a flaming plane wreck on the ground isn't normal. And best of all, *you don't need to know how to build a bloody IEM from scratch to know that an IEM is bad.*



I know, right? If that was the case then no one could hardly ever review any product.

And for the record, once you know how to use resin and make molds, it isn't that hard to make a single DD IEM. Will it sound good? Probably not. But the construction itself isn't too involved past that. Now, as for building truly durable IEMs, that's a different story.


----------



## Cinder

SSandDigital said:


> Well seems KZ did everything I hoped they would do with BA10.  Use an uncomfortable shell.  V shaped nonsense again.  C'mon KZ, at least try for something with a balanced sound that is anatomically comfortable.



I don't know how well "balanced sound" sells to their largest target audience at this price range. So that's probably a big reason why they went the way they did.

That and the fact that making a more subtle IEM is more expensive and requires better components as it reveals more nuance in the music.


----------



## DocHoliday

crinacle said:


> You don't need to be a chef to critique food. You don't need to be a musician to think a piece of music sounds bad. You don't need to know how to fly an airplane to know that a flaming plane wreck on the ground isn't normal. And best of all, *you don't need to know how to build a bloody IEM from scratch to know that an IEM is bad.*



The BA10 design is no paragon of ergonomics as AntDroid made it clear that the BA10 will be a no-go for smaller ears but not all IEMs are destined to be neutral or flat. KZ's niche is releasing "entertaining" earphones. If that's not your thing then there's a sea of Chi-Fi to choose from.


----------



## crinacle

DocHoliday said:


> The BA10 design is no paragon of ergonomics as AntDroid made it clear that the BA10 will be a no-go for smaller ears but not all IEMs are destined to be neutral or flat. KZ's niche is releasing "entertaining" earphones. If that's not your thing then there's a sea of Chi-Fi to choose from.





Spoiler: Context






DocHoliday said:


> Looking forward to the IEMs you've fashioned and released.





crinacle said:


> You don't need to be a chef to critique food. You don't need to be a musician to think a piece of music sounds bad. You don't need to know how to fly an airplane to know that a flaming plane wreck on the ground isn't normal. And best of all, *you don't need to know how to build a bloody IEM from scratch to know that an IEM is bad.*






You have completely and utterly missed the point I was trying to make.


----------



## loomisjohnson (Oct 1, 2018)

got the zs4s this weekend. it's remarkable how in the face of all the chaos, tribal warfare and general degradation of our society we can still look forward to  the unboxing experience. in any case, here's my ootb impressions (w/stock l starline tips):
1. accessories/packaging are minimal; however kz has really upped its game with the aesthetics of the headshells--these have a much nicer, more premium feel that the zsr/ed16 etc. and actually remind me superficially of the it01, with decent build and quality acrylics. likewise, this is the first usable memory cable i've seen from kz; tangly but free from microphonics.
2. like the zs3, the zs4 fit and isolate extremely well--should be excellent for the gym or firing range.
3. soundwise, v-shaped and "consumer tuned," with alot of extension at both ends and notably more treble detail and emphasis than the zs3. initially, from a hi-powered desktop set up these sounded somewhat veiled and hollow, with mids pushed way too far back; however these opened up considerable through my lg v30. with mids moving forward and drums sounding more realistic.
4. this is a bright phone and  treble can get splashy at the extremes. i hear the stage as fairly low and narrow, altho (like almost all kzs) imaging is vg. note texture isn't quite as rich as the zsr/zs5 though bass is better controlled than either--upright bass in particular is well-reproduced. good prat and energy.
5. these lack the refinement of the trn v80 and the physicality of the multidriver kz hybrids, but driver coherence may be better on the zs4 (probably because it's design is less ambitious). tiprolling may yield different outcomes.
$12? fuggetaboutit.


----------



## HAMS

Flat headphone are actually very rare, I think that because it's harder to make, it's easier to just add bass to mask flaw or uneven frequencies.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> . intially, from a hi-powered desktop set up these sounded somewhat veiled and hollow, with mids pushed way too far back; however these opened up considerable through my lg v30. with mids moving forward and drums sounding more realistic.



That was my experience. Less power, less mids. What this does is exaggerate the transition between the two drivers. 

However, more power and they come alive. Whatever dynamic driver they’re using is power hungry. Not sure if it’s the same driver as the ZS3 or not. I only have 1 pair of ZS4, so I don’t want to open them up yet.


----------



## baxuz (Oct 1, 2018)

Regarding the BT10s, I finally managed to get some direct audio input. I don't believe this can be fixed, since it's digital noise: https://vocaroo.com/i/s08WPFlrKZEH


----------



## Mellowship

The ZS4 are the best bang for buck of all of my KZ. I am really enjoying them, and to think they only cost 12 USD is astonishing! 
I used them today in my 30 min commute on a hybrid tram-subway that grinds the rails like ork's nails running down a chalkboard when it gets to the surface. Just so you know, when I use my PortaPros, I suddenly stop listening to whatever in those situations. Not with the ZS4! They are the best IEMs for that specific situation I have ever used. No more rail noises. 
Well, the ZS4 seem to isolate more than the ZS3. Maybe because the internals are stiffer now without that heat-shrinking bad excuse of a tube. 
Not only they isolate way more than the majority, the bass suffers less from transport vibration. It keeps its pace and definition. Kick drums are still there and stuff. This is a rather good option for you drummers out there!

What I like most about the ZS4:
-price
-form factor and comfort
-bass definition
-price
-controlled and "au-point" sub-bass
-"elegant" midrange when using foam tips - the mids have a nice organic feel about them, a good timbric response, although they are indeed a little too low
-rather good instrument separation
-price
-treble definition - these don't hold back on the high key, they sure have quite a formidable range there, and it accounts for a spacious sound. Stage is tall enough but not very wide nor deep. Just good enough. In fact, excellent considering the price. Nothing to complain about.

What I like the least:
-some sibilance. I don't know if it will get tamed with use, burn-in, brain burn-in or whatever. By now it is there sometimes with some sounds. It gets better with foam tips. 
-mids when using silicone tips (starlines, Sony hybrids) are not as resolving as with foam tips, losing some of the weight and resolution. They get a little thiner... 
-the "y-split's edge of death" (photo below). C'mon KZ! Don't give us a y-split with that sharp edge in that particular position that it is prone to get stuck on tabletops!!! 
-the cable is good, and the black is back! (some older KZs from the beginning of times had black cables). But I noticed it only has 3 wires coming from the jack as opposed to other KZ braided cables that have 4. No big deal here, only for 2 things: it is more prone to unwind the twisting - and I can already notice it is untwisting at the jack's strain relief; imagine the "balanced" thing ends up being The Thing for the future - now you have to get another cable instead of just soldering a different jack!
-see, no metal memory termination anymore, because I am a master in the x-acto/scissors/pliers removal technique. The memory wires are awfully uncomfortable and painful and awkward. 
-it should be mandatory for KZ to include a set of (good) foam tips in the package (not that crap that usually came with the ATE). This is not the case, but for flagship KZ models they have that useless metal plaque that costs money. Why don't they cut the cost and throw everyone their foam tips? 
-glossyness - thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster my fingers are dry, but these glossy shells are fingerprint magnets. The matte ZS3 is still handsome, IMHO.


----------



## Pruikki

Heelp!

Just got my KZ AS10 few days ago, it seems Left side is Dominant!* FAULTY?

So seems like everything is more on the left side!
*
no such thing on any other iems....well ZSR has little of it not as bad as AS10 tho. My AS10 is Surely faulty!?

got em from gearbest, what should i do? (tried different tips,cables, sides,music, sources, files) PLEASE ADVICE/suggestions?

-*TLDR, New KZ AS10 is faulty, Left side dominates*, all speech and music, feels like right side is not workin, left side is 70% and right 30% id say balance. (i got perfect hearing)

THANKS FORUM FOR HELP,in advance.


----------



## khighly

DocHoliday said:


> The BA10 design is no paragon of ergonomics as AntDroid made it clear that the BA10 will be a no-go for smaller ears but not all IEMs are destined to be neutral or flat. KZ's niche is releasing "entertaining" earphones. If that's not your thing then there's a sea of Chi-Fi to choose from.


I find there's the classic KZ sound (ZS10) where they kind of play with things but keep everything _relatively_ neutral, and then they just play with different fun sound signatures (AS10). Neutral doesn't seem to be KZ's game. I enjoy them, check my signature for how many I have


----------



## Cinder

khighly said:


> I find there's the classic KZ sound (ZS10) where they kind of play with things but keep everything _relatively_ neutral, and then they just play with different fun sound signatures (AS10). Neutral doesn't seem to be KZ's game. I enjoy them, check my signature for how many I have



Would you say that the ZSR and ZST have the classic KZ sound? Because to my ears, I find them to be pretty far from neutral. Though, considering "neutral" is subjective its hard to know if we have different definitions of the word. "Flat" would be a more objective take, but in that case we can clearly see that none of KZ's IEMs even target a flat sound signature (which is good, since those IEMs are boring).


----------



## khighly

baxuz said:


> Regarding the BT10s, I finally managed to get some direct audio input. I don't believe this can be fixed, since it's digital noise: https://vocaroo.com/i/s08WPFlrKZEH


I ordered the TRN BT10, I'll let you know if it has the same issues.


----------



## khighly

Cinder said:


> Would you say that the ZSR and ZST have the classic KZ sound? Because to my ears, I find them to be pretty far from neutral. Though, considering "neutral" is subjective its hard to know if we have different definitions of the word. "Flat" would be a more objective take, but in that case we can clearly see that none of KZ's IEMs even target a flat sound signature (which is good, since those IEMs are boring).


I find the ZSR's to be the hottest of garbage KZ has made right above the ED12's. ZST has nice highs, detail, and soundstage, but is missing a lot of mids. ZST is more of a classic KZ sound, for certain.


----------



## Cinder

khighly said:


> I find the ZSR's to be the hottest of garbage KZ has made right above the ED12's. ZST has nice highs, detail, and soundstage, but is missing a lot of mids. ZST is more of a classic KZ sound, for certain.



Interesting take. I actually liked the ZSR more than the ZST. The ZST's spike near the 6KHz range hurts my ears a bit.

What makes you dislike it?


----------



## B9Scrambler

khighly said:


> I find the ZSR's to be the hottest of garbage KZ has made right above the ED12's. ZST has nice highs, detail, and soundstage, but is missing a lot of mids. ZST is more of a classic KZ sound, for certain.



Torture via hot garbage. The best kind there is


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> Flat headphone are actually very rare, I think that because it's harder to make, it's easier to just add bass to mask flaw or uneven frequencies.



Not necessarily. The $20 dynamic drivered BlitzWolf ES1 is extremely flat with nothing more than a few simple mods.

Ask @groucho69 or @Otto Motor how they like theirs.

The issue isn’t cost or difficulty. It’s that only an extremely small segment of people want flat tuning.

Imagine you are going to make a new IEM. You want to sell as many as possible because more units=lower scaled cost and more sales=more profit.

I have a choice.

1. I could make a popular v shaped tune and sell 5000 units. In the past I’ve done v shaped models, and they all sell out.
2. I could make a flat tune.

So let’s say I go with the flat tune. 

Well, the 1st 100 units out the door to typical reviewers end up getting get flamed on social media and YouTube reviews because they “have no bass”. So your sales halt. 

Eventually, a handful of HeadFi type people go ahead and are willing to be guinea pigs. Low and behold they find out it’s a hidden gem for flat tuning. So they spread the word.

Well, only a certain % of audiophiles want flat tuning. But let’s say 500 people buy it. Wow that’s a lot! Well, not to the company, because they have 4400 boat anchors sitting in a warehouse gathering dust.

Now you’re the earphone company again. You want to come out with a 2nd IEM. The flat tuning model was not a great seller as you only sold a fraction of the supply. But the v shape always sells out.

Which would you develop?

See the problem?


----------



## Cinder

Slater said:


> Not necessarily. The $20 dynamic drivered BlitzWolf ES1 is extremely flat with nothing more than a few simple mods.
> 
> Ask @groucho69 or @Otto Motor how they like theirs.
> 
> ...



Well, obviously this will be the case for companies that only turn a profit using the economy of scale (such as pretty much all Chi-Fi companies). You can see western brands pulling off successful "neutral/flat" IEMs because they sell them in limited production runs and with a large margin of profit per unit. See the Massdrop x Nuforce EDC and EDC3 as some examples.


----------



## Slater

Cinder said:


> Well, obviously this will be the case for companies that only turn a profit using the economy of scale (such as pretty much all Chi-Fi companies). You can see western brands pulling off successful "neutral/flat" IEMs because they sell them in limited production runs and with a large margin of profit per unit. See the Massdrop x Nuforce EDC and EDC3 as some examples.



Yeah, I was referring to ChiFi.


----------



## Zlivan

B9Scrambler said:


> Torture via hot garbage. The best kind there is


that thing on the left. no classic kz tuning. hot garbage also.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Zlivan said:


> that thing on the left. no classic kz tuning. hot garbage also.



All TOTL is hot garbage  Esp. if it doesn't measure flawlessly.


----------



## antdroid

It'd be interesting to see the sales numbers of the T2/T2 Pro (flatter/neutral) vs a comparable KZ (v-shaped) (AS10? ZS6?). 

The T2 Pro sold 586 units on the Massdrop presale, not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but that's a good amount for a massdrop drop.


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> Not necessarily. The $20 dynamic drivered BlitzWolf ES1 is extremely flat with nothing more than a few simple mods.
> 
> Ask @groucho69 or @Otto Motor how they like theirs.
> 
> ...



BlitzWolf ES1 are amazing at any price IMHO.


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like TRN have released some more aftermarket cables which are definitely more premium looking. They also come in 2 pin 0.75 and 0.78 sizes.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.45.73d26a7bPUxLN8


----------



## nxnje

Just ordered a Red KZ ZS6 pair from amazon, i paid them 10 euros more than aliexpress but at least i can try them and then i can ship them back if they are not for me, so what i pay is the freedom of chosing, like someone said me here.

Now i'm just curious about a thing. The earphones will come on Wednesday so 2 more days.
Could please someone tell me how do they imagine the ZSA vs ZS6 in short terms? Do u think the ZS6 is a huge step up from the ZSA and are they that different?
I don't own the ZSA but maybe listening to the zs6 when it comes to me, i will make my self an idea about how the ZSA sounds in comparison.


----------



## hakuzen

TheVortex said:


> Looks like TRN have released some more aftermarket cables which are definitely more premium looking. They also come in 2 pin 0.75 and 0.78 sizes.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.45.73d26a7bPUxLN8


first 8core cables below $11! and 0.75/0.78mm choice is welcome.
i've tried some 8core cables and there are big differences in total thickness, and quality of materials (wire, plugs and solders). my favs under $30 are the newest at nicehck, number 53 (brown copper version) in my list, which arrived today, and number 52 (silver plated version). my list.



nxnje said:


> Just ordered a Red KZ ZS6 pair from amazon, i paid them 10 euros more than aliexpress but at least i can try them and then i can ship them back if they are not for me, so what i pay is the freedom of chosing, like someone said me here.
> 
> Now i'm just curious about a thing. The earphones will come on Wednesday so 2 more days.
> Could please someone tell me how do they imagine the ZSA vs ZS6 in short terms? Do u think the ZS6 is a huge step up from the ZSA and are they that different?
> I don't own the ZSA but maybe listening to the zs6 when it comes to me, i will make my self an idea about how the ZSA sounds in comparison.


yes zs6 is a huge step up from zsa, despite of the treble peak (easily eq'ed, if needed), in terms of resolution, details, separation, and treble extension. but zsa is ok, tiny cute, and no need of eq at all (although some may want to tame mid-bass a bit).


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## rayliam80 (Oct 1, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Now i'm just curious about a thing. The earphones will come on Wednesday so 2 more days. Could please someone tell me how do they imagine the ZSA vs ZS6 in short terms? Do u think the ZS6 is a huge step up from the ZSA and are they that different? I don't own the ZSA but maybe listening to the zs6 when it comes to me, i will make my self an idea about how the ZSA sounds in comparison.



ZSA has better timbre than the ZS6. But to my ears it sounds even more v-shaped. The mids are a little better with the ZS6. The soundstage of the ZS6 is wider. Depth feels similar. The ZSA satisfied my curiosity but I'll probably be giving it away and keep the ZS6.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TheVortex said:


> Looks like TRN have released some more aftermarket cables which are definitely more premium looking. They also come in 2 pin 0.75 and 0.78 sizes.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.45.73d26a7bPUxLN8


Ordered a mmcx, and a 75mm dual pin to test out. Under $11 is crazy. My guess is that this is going to be the cheap upgrade to KZ cables.


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## DocHoliday (Oct 1, 2018)

TheVortex said:


> Looks like TRN have released some more aftermarket cables which are definitely more premium looking. They also come in 2 pin 0.75 and 0.78 sizes.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.45.73d26a7bPUxLN8



Looks like the former KZ staff (TRN) have beat KZ to the punch. The black CNC aluminum splitter and jack cover would compliment the black ZS6 quite nicely......and it's 8-core instead of the cheaper 4-core.



 



 



 



 





I still shake my head every time I see this:



 



It would have been nice if KZ had released something equivalent a year ago......WITH the release of the ZS6. If TRN can release an 8-core at $10.49 then is it simply a lack of vision or a lack of focus at KZ?


Glad to see the folks at TRN pushing the envelope on affordable "in-house" gear.


----------



## dpsbz

TheVortex said:


> Looks like TRN have released some more aftermarket cables which are definitely more premium looking. They also come in 2 pin 0.75 and 0.78 sizes.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.45.73d26a7bPUxLN8



Hi regarding these cables I have the ZS4 and ES4 which size do I need please or will both sizes work , one says 2.5mm and the other is 3.5mm . Confused .


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## Makahl (Oct 2, 2018)

dpsbz said:


> Hi regarding these cables I have the ZS4 and ES4 which size do I need please or will both sizes work , one says 2.5mm and the other is 3.5mm . Confused .



2-pins 0.75mm and 3.5mm (assuming you don't have a balanced amp that needs 2.5mm).


----------



## dpsbz

Ok thanks


----------



## TLDRonin

Wow, those cables look great

I already have a silver one for my ZS6 so I dont need it.... But its only $10....


----------



## nxnje

hakuzen said:


> first 8core cables below $11! and 0.75/0.78mm choice is welcome.
> i've tried some 8core cables and there are big differences in total thickness, and quality of materials (wire, plugs and solders). my favs under $30 are the newest at nicehck, number 53 (brown copper version) in my list, which arrived today, and number 52 (silver plated version). my list.
> 
> 
> yes zs6 is a huge step up from zsa, despite of the treble peak (easily eq'ed, if needed), in terms of resolution, details, separation, and treble extension. but zsa is ok, tiny cute, and no need of eq at all (although some may want to tame mid-bass a bit).



Thanks a lot! Just another little question: could the TRN v80 cable work with the ZS6?
As i have a broken v80 i was thinkin about picking the cable and putting it into my incoming ZS6. It is the same connector? Or is it different?


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## parthabhatta (Oct 2, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> The USB-C cable has indeed a DAC, and improves SQ in most embedded smartphone DACs/amps. I believe this should not be valid for some flagship or music-designed smartphones, but for midrange smartphones such as mine, the difference is notorious. I can get the same amplitude with the KZ cable at 1/3 volume, as the 3.5 standard jack at full volume. As for the quality, the improvement is very satisfying. I could not get the ZS5 (v1) rocking with the standard jack. Sound would get easily congested and dull. With the KZ cable, there is much more detail, better bass extension and control (in fact the bass gets this very satisfying "snappyness"), much better mids and instrument placement. It amounts for a better sonic experience overall. One interesting thing is that I could not get the KZ to play more than 96KHz, although it is featured in the technical details that it goes up to 192.
> I also got recently the Hidizs Sonata USB-C dongle, and it is not very different form this KZ. It has a better DAC but with slightly less volume. It is a more hifi/audiophile experience, with even more detail and forward mids, compared to the KZ cable. The Sonata has the option to change firmware (in a PC) to 3 options. One of those options allows you to bypass all system sounds and lock to music only, and it only goes up to 192KHz in this mode using apps that allow to lock a DAC in bit-perfect transfer mode. Another curious thing about the Sonata is that the USB-C plug with the DAC chip in it is metal and it gets hot.
> These dongles don't seem to drain more battery from the smartphone than a Bluetooth connection.



I fully agree to this. Infact the KZ USB C DAC cable coupled with UAPP app has dramatically improved the sound in my mediocre Leagoo KIICAA MIX phone. I had never imagined that my device could give such a mind blowing audio output from this phone. Loud (has to turn down vol considerably) , crisp and entertaining sound. Battery consumption is miniscule.
Further, this cable has grown my interest on USB C DAC and I have ordered Odyssey and Sonata.
Regards


----------



## Mellowship

parthabhatta said:


> I fully agree to this. Infact the KZ USB C DAC cable coupled with UAPP app has dramatically improved the sound in my mediocre Leagoo KIICAA MIX phone. I had never imagined that my device could give such a mind blowing audio output from this phone. Loud (has to turn down vol considerably) , crisp and entertaining sound. Battery consumption is miniscule.
> Further, this cable has grown my interest on USB C DAC and I have ordered Odyssey and Sonata.
> Regards



In fact, this cable didn't improve the sound on your Leagoo smartphone, for your device is simply acting as a transport for digital files. The DAC in the cable does it all! 
These kind of solutions really makes you realize the 3.5 jack is not as important to keep in many devices as many people wished. If the price to keep 3.5 jacks is lowering the quality of the physical jack itself to a point its springs wear down and it isn't capable of clipping the male jack satisfactorily, and/or the inboard DAC of the smartphone/tablet/whatever is underpowered and unable to drive even the least demanding of earphones, I don't mind to use a usb-c dongle, or to have this KZ cable around with me. 
My Honor 8 is a hell of a device, and I still love it for its design, quality of construction, speed, camera, etc. But its audio abilities, the low quality female 3.5 plug, the unsatisfactory inboard DAC, the absence of FM radio, and even the outdated bluetooth capabilities, makes this a no-go smartphone for those who want to use it as a main audio device. I never bought it with that in mind, but in the summer I was getting tired of having to carry a DAP in the few pocket space summer clothes have. This cable changes it! 
The Sonata is even better. 
@parthabhatta , post your impressions on the Odyssey, please, when you receive it!


----------



## parthabhatta

Mellowship said:


> In fact, this cable didn't improve the sound on your Leagoo smartphone, for your device is simply acting as a transport for digital files. The DAC in the cable does it all!
> These kind of solutions really makes you realize the 3.5 jack is not as important to keep in many devices as many people wished. If the price to keep 3.5 jacks is lowering the quality of the physical jack itself to a point its springs wear down and it isn't capable of clipping the male jack satisfactorily, and/or the inboard DAC of the smartphone/tablet/whatever is underpowered and unable to drive even the least demanding of earphones, I don't mind to use a usb-c dongle, or to have this KZ cable around with me.
> My Honor 8 is a hell of a device, and I still love it for its design, quality of construction, speed, camera, etc. But its audio abilities, the low quality female 3.5 plug, the unsatisfactory inboard DAC, the absence of FM radio, and even the outdated bluetooth capabilities, makes this a no-go smartphone for those who want to use it as a main audio device. I never bought it with that in mind, but in the summer I was getting tired of having to carry a DAP in the few pocket space summer clothes have. This cable changes it!
> The Sonata is even better.
> @parthabhatta , post your impressions on the Odyssey, please, when you receive it!



Yeah I understood. My phone is simply acting as transport. This KZ does a stupendous job and as per your experience the Sonata is supposed to do it better. I will definitely post my experience of Odyssey once I receive and use that successfully. 
In fact thanks to these cables, i can now choose any moderate USB C type phone instead of running after LG audiocentric mobiles once I decide to replace my LG V20.


----------



## Mellowship

parthabhatta said:


> Yeah I understood. My phone is simply acting as transport. This KZ does a stupendous job and as per your experience the Sonata is supposed to do it better. I will definitely post my experience of Odyssey once I receive and use that successfully.
> In fact thanks to these cables, i can now choose any moderate USB C type phone instead of running after LG audiocentric mobiles once I decide to replace my LG V20.


Yes! No more dependence on niche audiocentric smartphones!  Considering what is coming from Huawei in the next few weeks, the boundaries are being pushed!


----------



## loomisjohnson

spent some more ear time with the zs4--from the standpoint of sound quality, i'm placing them a bit below the zs5/zsr/ed16 on my kz pantheon, altho the zs4 does bass better than the others. i remain impressed with the fit (bested only by the zst) and world-class isolation.


----------



## Mellowship

loomisjohnson said:


> spent some more ear time with the zs4--from the standpoint of sound quality, i'm placing them a bit below the zs5/zsr/ed16 on my kz pantheon, altho the zs4 does bass better than the others. i remain impressed with the fit (bested only by the zst) and world-class isolation.


For my tastings, I place then below ZS5 and marginally above ZST concerning sound quality. They indeed do bass better then ZST, and just as good as the ZS5, but slightly different as ZS4 have a more present subbass but ZS5 has a better bass imaging. 
With foam tips, the treble is just a little less controlled compared to ZS5 v1, a little more splashy, which is not good for the soundstage. With silicone tips, it gets in the way too much.
If they had just a little more resolving midrange (i.e. a little less V-shaped), they would rule!


----------



## loomisjohnson

Mellowship said:


> For my tastings, I place then below ZS5 and marginally above ZST concerning sound quality. They indeed do bass better then ZST, and just as good as the ZS5, but slightly different as ZS4 have a more present subbass but ZS5 has a better bass imaging.
> With foam tips, the treble is just a little less controlled compared to ZS5 v1, a little more splashy, which is not good for the soundstage. With silicone tips, it gets in the way too much.
> If they had just a little more resolving midrange (i.e. a little less V-shaped), they would rule!


i actually hear the bass on the zs4 as a little more sculpted than that on the zs5, tho i'm otherwise in accord--i'm also struggling to find the correct tips, since as you note neither foams nor stock silicons tame that unruly treble--anyone have suggestions?


----------



## hakuzen

nxnje said:


> Thanks a lot! Just another little question: could the TRN v80 cable work with the ZS6?
> As i have a broken v80 i was thinkin about picking the cable and putting it into my incoming ZS6. It is the same connector? Or is it different?


guess it will work (both 0.75mm 2pins, i think), but haven't tried. anyway, why would yo do that? trn v80 stock cable is as bad or even worse than zs6's. the new cheap trn cable could be an affordable upgrade instead.


----------



## Mellowship

loomisjohnson said:


> i actually hear the bass on the zs4 as a little more sculpted than that on the zs5, tho i'm otherwise in accord--i'm also struggling to find the correct tips, since as you note neither foams nor stock silicons tame that unruly treble--anyone have suggestions?



You'll just have to roll the dices... I mean, the tips. But if foam doesn't cut it for you...

What I rolled so far, before sticking to medium size T-400 foam tips:
- stock starlines (L): run away. Splashy-splash. 
- Sony hybrids (L, light blue bore): lowers the treble but yet without controlling enough. Bloats the bass as it would be expected from Sony hybrids.
- Rock Zyrcon tips (L): love these on the ZS3. The wide bore and the light steeped arch give a sort of airyness to the muffle-natured ZS3 and open the midrange. In the ZS4, splashy-splash.
- old KZ translucent dome tips (L): same as starlines but tend to be less comfortable, more prone to unplug from the ear canal. Soundwise, nothing to write home about.
- Radiopaq Jazz tips (M): they don't have a slit, so they don't hold very well on the nozzle lip. Bass is controlled but does nothing to the treble. Deep insertion. Still splashy
- memory foam faux-comply rubber nozzled T-400 tips (L): same sound as described in the last posts, but the large size, which I usually sport on every other IEM, make these, as well as the ZS3, impossible to fit, as this kind of shell needs to rotate upon inserting. Too much drag. 

Maybe the spinfits or the jvc? Can't discuss them, don't have any.

Good luck!


----------



## Delta32

How do the zs4 and zsr compare with regards to sound quality and isolation?


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 3, 2018)

Anyone interested in getting an AS10 or ZS6 cheap should listen up.

GearBest flash sale right now until they're gone.

AS10 @ $40
https://m.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009119292742.html?wid=1433363



 


KZ Case @ $1
https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009510486007.html?wid=1433363


 


KZ ZS6 @ $35 (black only)
https://m.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_770863.html?wid=1101231


 


Better cable @ $7
https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009383076703.html?wid=1433363


 


Pick up KZ's best cheap on GearBest then order your TRN cables on AliExpress @ $10.49 a set. Wait for your stuff to arrive and your golden for $50+/- for an entire set-up (IEM, cable & case).

TRN cables @ $10.49
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32931...&terminal_id=cbb64a9d5f47470389347423475ddb52


----------



## hakuzen

tempted to try another as10, to check coherence with my unit, which is too midbassy. dunno if it is due to QC, given the reviews i've read/watch lately..


----------



## mbwilson111

hakuzen said:


> tempted to try another as10, to check coherence with my unit, which is too midbassy. dunno if it is due to QC, given the reviews i've read/watch lately..



What tips have you tried?


----------



## hakuzen

mbwilson111 said:


> What tips have you tried?


stock starlines, and old grey starlines (these are on now). i don't want to use foam (some treble would be missed). i'm going to try others, thanks.
short wide tips might be the solution (purchased a new batch, in transit), but the result is shallow on my ears and the iems tend to slip out. they are not comfy anyway.
noticed they sound better at low volume (but i use to listen louder), and they are not forgiving with too compressed audio or bad recordings. trying them again now..


----------



## mbwilson111

hakuzen said:


> stock starlines, and old grey starlines (these are on now). i don't want to use foam (some treble would be missed). i'm going to try others, thanks.
> short wide tips might be the solution (purchased a new batch, in transit), but the result is shallow on my ears and the iems tend to slip out. they are not comfy anyway.
> noticed they sound better at low volume (but i use to listen louder), and they are not forgiving with too compressed audio or bad recordings. trying them again now..



In similar situations I often end up using Spinfits.


----------



## hakuzen

mbwilson111 said:


> In similar situations I often end up using Spinfits.


thanks. i've got some spinfits, but my experience with them is bassier sound and loss of treble, so not a good solution for my bassy as10.
spiral dots (with or without foam added inside) use to be my end rolling tips, gonna try them


----------



## Makahl (Oct 2, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> tempted to try another as10, to check coherence with my unit, which is too midbassy. dunno if it is due to QC, *given the reviews i've read/watch lately..*



People using different tips, source, music can also explain it.

X using: small bore silicon tips, random smartphone (high output impedance), listening to mostly rap/hip-hop/pop
Y using: large bore silicon tips, FiiO X7 MKII (low output impedance), listening to mostly rock/metal/jazz
Z using: foam tips and a variation between X and Y

That's why most of the time is kind of useless to me reading impressions if you don't know the reviewer's musical taste, the source he is using and tips. I usually try to find my "twin-ear" which has most similarities with my own taste and gear. Otherwise, you need to take a huge amount of salt. But ofc, KZ's QC can be a variable too.

Also, it's kinda funny reading Campfire Andromeda's reviews. All people are aware of the changes of output impedance and what it can cause regarding on its SQ (in some cases it's a literal disaster), but when it's chi-fi multi-BA people throw it to any source and expect they will sound identical, lol.


----------



## Mellowship

DocHoliday said:


> Anyone interested in getting an AS10 or ZS6 cheap should listen up.
> 
> GearBest flash sale right now until they're gone.
> 
> ...


Damn you... 40$ poorer now... 
This is a disease!


----------



## mbwilson111

Mellowship said:


> 40$ poorer now...



...or soon, you will be one IEM richer...


----------



## monitoringsound70

Well after much deliberation and mind changes i finally have a pair of the ZS10 in the all red version. 

Only just got in and unboxed them. 
And I am currently listening to some Live Bowie. 

So far and obviously very early days at the moment but so far these are real nice. 
Using large Spinfits on the lipless nozzle......(don't like that mind), but aside from that I'm liking the sound. 
Nice upfront vocals with a very warm and rounded sound. 
More thoughts to follow.......


----------



## nxnje

hakuzen said:


> guess it will work (both 0.75mm 2pins, i think), but haven't tried. anyway, why would yo do that? trn v80 stock cable is as bad or even worse than zs6's. the new cheap trn cable could be an affordable upgrade instead.



Didn't think v80 cable was so bad.
I thought zs6's one was way worse than it.


----------



## Vestat

nxnje said:


> Didn't think v80 cable was so bad.
> I thought zs6's one was way worse than it.



Actually I am one of the few that likes the rubbery grippy cable of the ZS6.. Not sure why.. probably because is one of the only cables that provides a good microphone quality (the remote calling microphone, not talking about micorphonics).
Man.. why the hell all the cables with microphones are so bad.. I would really like to have a nice call with my girlfriend listening to her voice trough the beauty and details of the zs6 or v80s.. but no chance.. she can never properly listen to me..


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> i actually hear the bass on the zs4 as a little more sculpted than that on the zs5, tho i'm otherwise in accord--i'm also struggling to find the correct tips, since as you note neither foams nor stock silicons tame that unruly treble--anyone have suggestions?



I'm currently experimenting with the foam ZST mod to the ZS4's BA. I think that will do the trick. I will post results when I'm done.


----------



## basshead11

new kz 1dd+da booring

https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1045643741069889536


----------



## BadReligionPunk

basshead11 said:


> new kz 1dd+da booring
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1045643741069889536


Naw. Metal nozzle is dope AF. Interested in it, but think it will probably not be for me, as its probably treble heavy.


----------



## HAMS

I just did mock vent on zs3 to reduce bass by slipping paper between nozzles and tips, it did reduce the bass but the peaky 5k treble become more pronounced. Unless I eq'ed it I rather prefer the stock sound.


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> I just did mock vent on zs3 to reduce bass by slipping paper between nozzles and tips, it did reduce the bass but the peaky 5k treble become more pronounced. Unless I eq'ed it I rather prefer the stock sound.



If you want to reduce bass, just drill a small hole (perpendicular) in the nozzle using a twist drill and a micro drill bit.

Just make sure none of the eartip covers the hole. Also make sure no plastic shavings falls down into the IEM. Also make sure you do it on the opposite side as the BA.

I would try a 0.2mm hole. If that is not enough, increment by 0.1mm (ie 0.3mm, then 0.4mm, then 0.5mm). I would not go larger than 0.5mm.

If you don't like the results, you can simply cover the hole using tape or a dab of epoxy.


----------



## TLDRonin

Quick question: both the ZS6 and ZS10 use .75 mm 2 pin, right?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TLDRonin said:


> Quick question: both the ZS6 and ZS10 use .75 mm 2 pin, right?


Yes


----------



## CoiL

loomisjohnson said:


> ...since as you note neither foams nor stock silicons tame that unruly treble--anyone have suggestions?


no tips help.... been punishing my ZS4 with power and tried different tips - still BA highs are untamed, harsh, sibilant and "tsss tsss tsss" same thing with all the cymbals. Pity, as I find ZS4 DD sound pretty good, especially the well controlled bass.


----------



## nxnje

Vestat said:


> Actually I am one of the few that likes the rubbery grippy cable of the ZS6.. Not sure why.. probably because is one of the only cables that provides a good microphone quality (the remote calling microphone, not talking about micorphonics).
> Man.. why the hell all the cables with microphones are so bad.. I would really like to have a nice call with my girlfriend listening to her voice trough the beauty and details of the zs6 or v80s.. but no chance.. she can never properly listen to me..



I always ask the same every time


----------



## Prosny

Hi everyone.

I’ve had KZ ZSAs for a while now. I’ve noticed that the right earpiece now misses some treble (not even that much, but noticeable when wearing both). Do you guys think that my balanced armature is not working? And if this is the case, how do I reach it after opening the shell? Just desolder the DD and brutally extract it?


----------



## CoiL (Oct 3, 2018)

ZS4 has new and different driver than ZS3. Not sure but I think this is the first green-shelled KZ driver. Also it has 2 tiny resistors on DD PCB.
To me it seems BA is installed parallel with DD (dd is first in array).


----------



## loomisjohnson

CoiL said:


> no tips help.... been punishing my ZS4 with power and tried different tips - still BA highs are untamed, harsh, sibilant and "tsss tsss tsss" same thing with all the cymbals. Pity, as I find ZS4 DD sound pretty good, especially the well controlled bass.


per mellowship the fake comply foams seem to work the best, tho they slightly veil the treble--gotta keep rolling, since i sense there's a good iem in there. i'm anxious to see what slater comes up with when he dissembles them.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 3, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> per mellowship the fake comply foams seem to work the best, tho they slightly veil the treble--gotta keep rolling, since i sense there's a good iem in there. i'm anxious to see what slater comes up with when he dissembles them.


Maybe changing resistor values would help but then You would need low-power soldering station to not damage DD pcb layer and overheat driver.
But like I said, that BA seems (to my ears) to have "dissected" fr from DD and just covering BA hole with foam etc. won`t help to fix it. It tames "tss tss" sibilance but doesn`t make it more coherent and smooth transition.

But in KZ context.... I`m probably ruined by IT01 (modded) sound compared to KZs - it is just sooo coherent and best dynamic-details in highs (best natural cymbal and crash sounds) I`ve heard from IEM. To picturize it by words, IT01 highs = TsZsSscSsss vs. ZS4 "tss tss tss" (which is all that BA is capable of, no matter what high-sound instrument).


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> no tips help.... been punishing my ZS4 with power and tried different tips - still BA highs are untamed, harsh, sibilant and "tsss tsss tsss" same thing with all the cymbals. Pity, as I find ZS4 DD sound pretty good, especially the well controlled bass.



Maybe the QKZ version (VK3) will work out better, as it has a 10mm dynamic with no BA.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> But like I said, that BA seems (to my ears) to have "dissected" fr from DD and just covering BA hole with foam etc. won`t help to fix it. It tames "tss tss" sibilance but doesn`t make it more coherent and smooth transition.



I agree on this. A BA foam mod would only tame sibilance. It would not correct transition between drivers.


----------



## nxnje

Zs6 arrived at me.
Connected immediately to my dap.
I have to say: they seem quite good, but sibilance is really killing my ears with stocks tips

Do you think zs6 is tip sensitive?

 I'm gonna try foam tips at home but for now i can't appreciate the detail as the piercing highs are destroying everything.
At least i can say some impression about the bass: very good bass, sub-bass is good and it's there when needed, not overwhelming. 
Mids are ok and soundstage is wow.
Gonna test more asap.


----------



## C2thew (Oct 3, 2018)

Was doing some research for the USB-C DAC cables when I realized why would I buy a KZ specific USB-C brand specific cable when you can just get a 3.5mm jack for a couple bucks more and just switch out the headphones when you want to?  If you buy the KZ cable, you would have to switch the ear phones every time as opposed to just switching a cable which is faster.

https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_headphone_adapter
$12 (updated version for the pixel 3)

vs

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...rade-Wire-0-75mm-For-Android/32885121196.html
$9


----------



## neo_styles

nxnje said:


> Zs6 arrived at me.
> Connected immediately to my dap.
> I have to say: they seem quite good, but sibilance is really killing my ears with stocks tips
> 
> ...


I think they're very tip-sensitive. Best two tips I've found for my ears are Auvio wide-bores and Complys. No sibilance issues with either in my experience


----------



## BrunoC (Oct 3, 2018)

Yeah, I use comply tips on my ZS6. It's FANTASTIC  No piercing highs at all.


----------



## monitoringsound70 (Oct 3, 2018)

So after some time spent with my ZS10 I can now give some more thoughts.

Firstly after not being completely happy with the fit of the large Spinfits I Switched to the tips from my urbanfun and what a result it was, much better isolation and sound wise...........

Firstly bass....well it's simply gorgeous,
Deep bass, and sub bass are some of the best I've heard, terrific clarity and so easy to pick out certain lines and notes, all wrapped in warmth.

Mids are slightly up front with a lovely warm tone and you can feel the singer placed definitely centre stage, very pleasurable indeed 

And then the treble.
Oodles of clarity which extends really far but with no sibilance at all, and perfectly rolled off at the right place.

From my experience I'd call them an upside down little U shape, while being very warm and airy,  which brings me to soundstage.
Which is big and wide, easy to pick out instrument placement with plenty of atmosphere thrown in.
Plus I love the way that they wrap your music up in a nice warm comfortable blanket with very liquid esq mids.

So in summary they are easily the best KZ I've heard, and I've heard an few!
Very happy with them indeed, extremely happy indeed.


----------



## stryed

nxnje said:


> Zs6 arrived at me.
> Connected immediately to my dap.
> I have to say: they seem quite good, but sibilance is really killing my ears with stocks tips
> 
> ...



I immediately moved to wide bore Tenmarks and added a EQ to downplay the highs. After a month or so, I started reducing my EQ. I guess harshness is very track and brain dependant. After a while, your brain equalizes 
Comfort was the most terrible issue that I got used to after several weeks.
In between all of this, I was listening to the IT01s and soundstage is the only thing that kept me giving the KZ5 another chance. In the end, I'm glad I did.


----------



## nxnje

neo_styles said:


> I think they're very tip-sensitive. Best two tips I've found for my ears are Auvio wide-bores and Complys. No sibilance issues with either in my experience





stryed said:


> I immediately moved to wide bore Tenmarks and added a EQ to downplay the highs. After a month or so, I started reducing my EQ. I guess harshness is very track and brain dependant. After a while, your brain equalizes
> Comfort was the most terrible issue that I got used to after several weeks.
> In between all of this, I was listening to the IT01s and soundstage is the only thing that kept me giving the KZ5 another chance. In the end, I'm glad I did.



Thanks for your words.
I tamed down the treble this evening putting cheap foam tips bought from aliexpress.
Treble went down hard and it's now a bit more pleasant, but i feel i miss now the detail i had.
So i'm gonna try some tip rolling tomorrow as i have like 20 different tips from many other headphones.
Atm i wanna try without EQing as my DAP is cheap and only has pre-set EQs.


----------



## Devodonaldson

monitoringsound70 said:


> So after some time spent with my ZS10 I can now give some more thoughts.
> 
> Firstly after not being completely happy with the fit of the large Spinfits I Switched to the tips from my urbanfun and what a result it was, much better isolation and sound wise...........
> 
> ...


Unlike orhwrs, I also loved the ZS10. I use Comply tips with all my iems. I've tried different silicone tips, Symbio hybrids. I just DON'T like the audio presentation provided by silicone, so it's foam all the way. Comply foam maintains the best audio properties IMO. Other foam tips definitely provide a muddy signature. Anyway, ZS10 was my favorite until I purchased the AS10. mid forward but in a pleasant way. The ZS10 are more relaxing. AS10 is a pleasant step up. They are both awesome for different reasons.


----------



## Devodonaldson

nxnje said:


> Thanks for your words.
> I tamed down the treble this evening putting cheap foam tips bought from aliexpress.
> Treble went down hard and it's now a bit more pleasant, but i feel i miss now the detail i had.
> So i'm gonna try some tip rolling tomorrow as i have like 20 different tips from many other headphones.
> Atm i wanna try without EQing as my DAP is cheap and only has pre-set EQs.


Comply foam tips do a much better job of not totally degrading the audio. Not all foam is created equal. FYI, the smartcore one size fits most tips are only $9.99 on Amazon, so half the price of most of the Comply tips


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 3, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Zs6 arrived at me.
> Connected immediately to my dap.
> I have to say: they seem quite good, but sibilance is really killing my ears with stocks tips
> 
> ...





nxnje said:


> Thanks for your words.
> I tamed down the treble this evening putting cheap foam tips bought from aliexpress.
> Treble went down hard and it's now a bit more pleasant, but i feel i miss now the detail i had.
> So i'm gonna try some tip rolling tomorrow as i have like 20 different tips from many other headphones.
> Atm i wanna try without EQing as my DAP is cheap and only has pre-set EQs.



HERE (zs6 tip rolling section) you can find FR graphs of zs6 when using different tips. foam was the most effective to tame 8 & 10kHz peaks, without altering the rest of frequencies. but cheap foams (no silicon tube inside) are useless in this regard.


----------



## sino8r

My BA10s arrived Monday and have been comparing them to the AS10s and TFZ Queen. It's been tough, mostly enjoyable, but somewhat frustrating. I used both silicone and foam tips. The AS10 sounds good (a bit high on the treble but no sibilance) but seal well and feel comfortable. Great bass and mids. I don't really like the plastic build though. They look okay but feel kinda cheap. The BA10 is definitely well made and sounds a bit more refined than the AS10 but very similar. The shape of the iem is okay. As many have stated and speculated, the Bender/Ironman shape is awkward. It's not horribly uncomfortable but you definitely feel like you need to reset them to seal almost every time you move. The ZS6 does this to me as well so I might work for some. I tried foam and silicone tips for medium and large sizes. I did order some double flange and spin fits but I really question if the treble will be too high with silicone. So far it has been so I'm not sure what to expect. I'd say go for AS10 if you're worried about fitting. They aren't much different soundwise. And finally, the TFZ Queen sounds really full being a single dynamic driver. It can get muddy on some songs and the soundstage cannot compete with the multiple dd/ba in some iems like KZ's flagships. Still, it does sound really awesome in most situations and the fit and build quality is excellent! Once you insert them, you don't have to readjust the seal for several hours. I've never used more comfortable iems. TFZ seems to have some really great stuff. Might be worth investigating who are looking for a step up from KZ but don't want to pay several hundred dollars for the adventure. And yes, you can compare it to ibasso but don't have to deal with the fragile mmcx connections and plastic iem housing. I should be getting the Fiio FH5 this Friday which is supposed to be in another league but we'll see. I am reluctant of some other iems (including Fiio due to the mmcx connections) because of past experiences with them being rather fragile. I'll fill y'all in if the spin fits or double flanged tips help with the sound or seal of the BA10, AS10, or even my ZS6 as well. They should be here by the weekend as well. Hope this might help some get some perspective on KZ's latest and greatest!


----------



## hakuzen

this kind of affordable ali foam tips work ok, @nxnje


----------



## monitoringsound70

Devodonaldson said:


> Unlike orhwrs, I also loved the ZS10. I use Comply tips with all my iems. I've tried different silicone tips, Symbio hybrids. I just DON'T like the audio presentation provided by silicone, so it's foam all the way. Comply foam maintains the best audio properties IMO. Other foam tips definitely provide a muddy signature. Anyway, ZS10 was my favorite until I purchased the AS10. mid forward but in a pleasant way. The ZS10 are more relaxing. AS10 is a pleasant step up. They are both awesome for different reasons.



Absolutely. AS10 is on my bucket list as we speak. 
I'm the opposite and don't use foam as they aren't really cost effective and take too long to get in the ear when you're out and about. 
But either way yes the ZS10 are awesome.


----------



## scottySK

Ive just ordered the as10 with the new 8 core trn cable.. really excited to pair those together!

Im hoping someone here can recommend a really large size wide bore silicon tip. The whirlwind size large are still smaller than I'd like. I have big ears I think, even the ZS10 fit nicely in my ear haha


----------



## tuanathon

Has anyone tried the pizen Bluetooth cable or should I wait for the trn bt3 0.75 version to come back in stock? I dont like the dangling button and microphone on the trn bt10 version


----------



## dpsbz

Hi which Comply tips would be ok for KS4/ES4 please ?


----------



## sino8r (Oct 4, 2018)

tuanathon said:


> Has anyone tried the pizen Bluetooth cable or should I wait for the trn bt3 0.75 version to come back in stock? I dont like the dangling button and microphone on the trn bt10 version



I think it's the same thing as the TRN BT3. I have both the bt3 and bt10 and the dangling parts on bt10 can be annoying. I just tuck them into my shirt so no big deal. If you grab the TRN BT3, just make sure it's the aptx version if needed. There is no visual way to tell them apart from the older version except the packaging or when connected to your device. I believe the newer one is BT 4.2 as well verses 4.1


----------



## nxnje

Devodonaldson said:


> Comply foam tips do a much better job of not totally degrading the audio. Not all foam is created equal. FYI, the smartcore one size fits most tips are only $9.99 on Amazon, so half the price of most of the Comply tips





hakuzen said:


> HERE (zs6 tip rolling section) you can find FR graphs of zs6 when using different tips. foam was the most effective to tame 8 & 10kHz peaks, without altering the rest of frequencies. but cheap foams (no silicon tube inside) are useless in this regard.





hakuzen said:


> this kind of affordable ali foam tips work ok, @nxnje



Woah guys, you're great.
Didn't think tip rolling stuff had already been discussed and measured.
I love you all
Bless


----------



## 129207

sino8r said:


> Hope this might help some get some perspective on KZ's latest and greatest!



This was really helpful, thanks! I'm looking forward to your comparison of the KZ lineup to your incoming Fiio. 

I own the KZ ZS5 and a bunch of older forum favourites (Vsonic GR07 CCE, Hifiman RE0, Sony MH1c, Xiaomi Piston 2 etc) and think the ZS5 sounds excellent for the money. I now am looking for something that will be a step up from the GR07 CCE, which is still the best budget IEM I've had for my taste in music (extreme metal). I'm torn between either another budget IEM (KZ AS10, BA10) or the new Fiio.


----------



## Devodonaldson

monitoringsound70 said:


> Absolutely. AS10 is on my bucket list as we speak.
> I'm the opposite and don't use foam as they aren't really cost effective and take too long to get in the ear when you're out and about.
> But either way yes the ZS10 are awesome.


That's interesting. I actually never have to squish foams. I can just put them in, so I don't have to wait. I also don't have the issue of the tips breaking down fast eirhei. I guess I'm just lucky on that front. I don't like deep inswrioin, so I buy the Comply round foam tips and simply put them in enough to get a little seal.


----------



## CoiL

Negakinu said:


> This was really helpful, thanks! I'm looking forward to your comparison of the KZ lineup to your incoming Fiio.
> 
> I own the KZ ZS5 and a bunch of older forum favourites (Vsonic GR07 CCE, Hifiman RE0, Sony MH1c, Xiaomi Piston 2 etc) and think the ZS5 sounds excellent for the money. I now am looking for something that will be a step up from the GR07 CCE, which is still the best budget IEM I've had for my taste in music (extreme metal). I'm torn between either another budget IEM (KZ AS10, BA10) or the new Fiio.


Then think of rather TFZ (king, King Pro, Ex.King), FiiO or IT01 ...money better placed as SQ, BQ, QC are superior to KZs latest offerings imo.


----------



## Mellowship

C2thew said:


> Was doing some research for the USB-C DAC cables when I realized why would I buy a KZ specific USB-C brand specific cable when you can just get a 3.5mm jack for a couple bucks more and just switch out the headphones when you want to?  If you buy the KZ cable, you would have to switch the ear phones every time as opposed to just switching a cable which is faster.
> 
> https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_headphone_adapter
> $12 (updated version for the pixel 3)
> ...



Well, is the Google Pixel adapter a digital one, or is it just using the analog L+R+G contacts on the USB-C? Is it compatible with all USB-C smartphones?

The thing is the KZ USB-C cable has a DAC inside the USB-C plug. And I suspect is a good one. High output, clarity, etc. I am even tented of ordering another and cutting the cable off some 10 cm of the plug, to adapt a female jack and getting myself a DIY cable.

For double the price of the Pixel adaptor, you can also get a Hidizs Sonata. This is a great option. Great sound, great build and the possibility of flashing 3 different firmware profiles, including one that bypasses the system sounds (mainly phone calls and messaging sounds) to the telephone speakers, and allows for 192 KHz of bitperfect stream using compatible apps.


----------



## Mellowship

dpsbz said:


> Hi which Comply tips would be ok for KS4/ES4 please ?



If you are talking about original Comply, you have a guide in their website https://www.complyfoam.com/compatibility# 
As per Comply (TM), they recommend T-500 for many KZ IEMs

Talking about cheap foam tips (the kind you buy on AE), from my experience, most KZs use T-400 bore size. But T-200 also fits ZS4.


----------



## fredhubbard2

Mellowship said:


> If you are talking about original Comply, you have a guide in their website https://www.complyfoam.com/compatibility#
> As per Comply (TM), they recommend T-500 for many KZ IEMs
> 
> Talking about cheap foam tips (the kind you buy on AE), from my experience, most KZs use T-400 bore size. But T-200 also fits ZS4.



I dunno why people insist on buying comply ; they are so expensive ... I use these on my KZ's :: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TCM-FOAM-R...538645299&sr=8-16&keywords=blue+foam+ear+tips


----------



## Mellowship

fredhubbard2 said:


> I dunno why people insist on buying comply ; they are so expensive ... I use these on my KZ's :: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TCM-FOAM-R...538645299&sr=8-16&keywords=blue+foam+ear+tips



I have one single pair of Comply tips, that came with a IEM I don't remember the model. They are nice, indeed. And they seem to last longer. Another thing is that they rebound their shape slower when crushed. But soundwise they don't justify their price. 
One good thing about faux-AE-ebay-wherever foam tips, those high quality ones that have a silicone tube inside, is that, apart from being cheap (0.60 USD a pair), in many sellers you can order specific bore sizes, outer diameters and colours in any amount you wish.
Example for 20 tips, you just leave a comment like:
4 units black t-400 (L) large
4 units grey t-400 (M) medium
4 units blue t-200 (M) medium
4 units red t-200 (M) medium
4 units black t-100 (S) small
... and the seller will send this exact combination. Some of them send them in separated transparent little plastic boxes. 
Another great thing is that, if you order different colours, like blue and red, from the same size, you get a pretty damn good way of distinguishing between L and R IEM sides for those earphones that are difficult to tell.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

Wow, my AS10s are less than a month old and have already died.

The right side is now significantly louder than the left side.

Going through a tone generator, everything below 2.5 kHz is louder on the right. There is a brief moment of balance from 2.5 kHz to 5kHz, then gets louder on the right for everything above 5 kHz. 

When I set the stereo balance to try and balance out the volume, the result still sounds very weird because there are still gaps in frequency response.

Anyone have any experience getting warranty service with KZ? I bought it from a seller on Amazon.

And yes, I've swapped cable positions, changed cables, changed playing devices, cleaned the nozzles, changed tips, and other headphones do sound balanced to me, so it's not in my head.


----------



## Slater

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Wow, my AS10s are less than a month old and have already died.
> 
> The right side is now significantly louder than the left side.
> 
> ...



That sucks friend. I would work with the seller and/or Amazon to get them swapped out via warranty.

Unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of any product with a lot of parts, is the increased risk of an individual part going bad. More parts=more things that can go wrong.


----------



## dwayniac

Which model,with BA drivers,has the best sub-bass?


----------



## Mellowship

dwayniac said:


> Which model,with BA drivers,has the best sub-bass?



The ZS4 has a rather well defined and present sub-bass from its dynamic driver. I believe it's the best sub-bass KZ made. 

Waiting for the AS10 to arrive, it is the first all-BA KZ, and from what I've been reading here, the bass seems promising. I will post my impressions upon receiving it.


----------



## Dreadvil

Greetings everyone.After about 2-3 days of researching I still cannot decide whether I should get KZ ED16 or KZ ES4.I'm gonna try to give as much info as I can and any help would be appriciated..So,I currently have KZ ATE,which I dearly love but after 2 years left one seems to be much lower in volume after I cought them by the cable while falling,and it's bothers me to the point I'd like to get a new pair.My budget is 20$ and the 2 best options seem to be ED16 and ES4(if there is a option which best fits my needs I'd consider it too).I'm mainly listening to modern rap music,which has a heavy emphasis on the bass,which is my biggest priority(without much sacrifice on highs and mids).I'll use them with my smartphone.The biggest problem that I have with choosing are the inconsistencies in the reviews of these IEM-s,(audiobudget,thephonograph,soundphilereview) especially in the bass department.I'd appriciate any help I could get.I'm kinda leaning towards ES4 because I've heard they have a bigger emphasis on the bass,but some say otherwise...


----------



## re.on

Dreadvil said:


> Greetings everyone.After about 2-3 days of researching I still cannot decide whether I should get KZ ED16 or KZ ES4.I'm gonna try to give as much info as I can and any help would be appriciated..So,I currently have KZ ATE,which I dearly love but after 2 years left one seems to be much lower in volume after I cought them by the cable while falling,and it's bothers me to the point I'd like to get a new pair.My budget is 20$ and the 2 best options seem to be ED16 and ES4(if there is a option which best fits my needs I'd consider it too).I'm mainly listening to modern rap music,which has a heavy emphasis on the bass,which is my biggest priority(without much sacrifice on highs and mids).I'll use them with my smartphone.The biggest problem that I have with choosing are the inconsistencies in the reviews of these IEM-s,(audiobudget,thephonograph,soundphilereview) especially in the bass department.I'd appriciate any help I could get.I'm kinda leaning towards ES4 because I've heard they have a bigger emphasis on the bass,but some say otherwise...


try KZ ZS4. I got it for CAD $16 / US $12 (just ask for a discount).


----------



## Danfish98

Dreadvil said:


> Greetings everyone.After about 2-3 days of researching I still cannot decide whether I should get KZ ED16 or KZ ES4.I'm gonna try to give as much info as I can and any help would be appriciated..So,I currently have KZ ATE,which I dearly love but after 2 years left one seems to be much lower in volume after I cought them by the cable while falling,and it's bothers me to the point I'd like to get a new pair.My budget is 20$ and the 2 best options seem to be ED16 and ES4(if there is a option which best fits my needs I'd consider it too).I'm mainly listening to modern rap music,which has a heavy emphasis on the bass,which is my biggest priority(without much sacrifice on highs and mids).I'll use them with my smartphone.The biggest problem that I have with choosing are the inconsistencies in the reviews of these IEM-s,(audiobudget,thephonograph,soundphilereview) especially in the bass department.I'd appriciate any help I could get.I'm kinda leaning towards ES4 because I've heard they have a bigger emphasis on the bass,but some say otherwise...


ZSA and ZS4 both have stronger bass than the ES4.


----------



## Danfish98

Received the ZS4 earlier this week and my initial impression is the hype is real. I find the bass boomy in the midbass range but this is easily remedied by boosting subbass to the same level. Treble is smoother than the ZSA and with the included star tips sounds similar to the ZSA with foam. Looking forward to trying them more after break in.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Oct 4, 2018)

Dreadvil said:


> whether I should get KZ ED16 or KZ ES4



I do have both. Use mostly with DAP Pioneer XDP-30R and also Xduoo X3

# ES4 (one graphene DD + one BA) :  Stock, very bassy and muddy, sound becomes much clearer and better with triple flange large bore tips, one step better with KZ twisted silver plated (iron color) cable.
with this optional cable, std starline tip is good.  Very good bass, medium, high medium and voices sound very natural, trebles a bit shy, never sibillant (if youre very young with healthy earing, it will be ok). The sound is beautifull, a bit fat like with a hifi tube amp, this means not very much details. Much bass but less sub

# ED16 =ZS7 (One DD + two BA) stock: more details , more sub-bass, less bass than ES4, (more bass after  burn-in). More detailed medium and bass, little bit more level of trebles. The sound is more detailed than ZS6.
This is my best earphone, after one month of daily use, I found it better than ZSR and ZS6 (wich have big bass and sub).  I do use my ED16 with balanced KZ silver plated cable (2.5mm) and triple flange large bore tips

I seldom listen to rap nore metal, but all kind of modern music and songs
I have the ATE 5th gen, that I keep cause it's cute looking, and all these more recent hybrid KZ are MUCH better:
more bass, sub, real trebles, more details, more soundstage, instrument separation etc.


 https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-D-origine-Argent-Plaqu-C-ble-des-couteurs-0-75mm-2-Broches-C-ble-En/32833865461.html

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...mm-Argent-plaqu-quilibrage-C/32886554683.html


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## mbwilson111 (Oct 4, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> # ED16 =ZS7 (One DD + two BA) stock: more details , more sub-bass, less bass than ES4, (more bass after burn-in). More detailed medium and bass, little bit more level of trebles. The sound is more detailed than ZS6.
> This is my best earphone, after one month of daily use, I found it better than ZSR and ZS6 (wich have big bass and sub). I do use my ED16 with balanced KZ silver plated cable (2.5mm) and triple flange large bore tips



I agree that the ED16 is excellent.  Like you, I changed the cable as I found the stock cable to be too rubbery.  Mine is the braided copper one and is not balanced.

A little tip about your long links...we are supposed to remove all the extra redirect stuff...see where it says  html
Delete everything after that.

Like this

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-D-origine-Argent-Plaqu-C-ble-des-couteurs-0-75mm-2-Broches-C-ble-En/32833865461.html

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS3-ZS5-ZS6-ZST-ED12-ZSR-couteurs-C-ble-2-5mm-Argent-plaqu-quilibrage-C/32886554683.html


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## hakuzen

+1 ED16 for sub-bass. find myself usually choosing them from other kzs when going out.

 

filled the starlines with foam, to ensure total seal, not letting any sub-bass to escape, hehe.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 4, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> +1 ED16 for sub-bass. find myself usually choosing them from other kzs when going out.
> 
> 
> filled the starlines with foam, to ensure total seal, not letting any sub-bass to escape, hehe.



Nice cable... which one is that?

I settled on medium Spinfits from my husband's Dunu (he was using something else on those).


----------



## Podster

So now my collection is complete, the "Green Lantern" has joined the "Silver Surfer", "Iron Man" and the "Black Panther"


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 4, 2018)

Podster said:


> So now my collection is complete, the "Green Lantern" has joined the "Silver Surfer", "Iron Man" and the "Black Panther"



That's strange... My "Black Panther" is a bud     BLUR Black Panther


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> That's strange... My "Black Panther" is a bud")    BLUR Black Panther



Nice MB, sweet Fubar as well

I need to to the Lantern home so the whole team can be in one shot now



 

By the way, if any of you KZ  fans would like to try the .75 tri-braid SP cable  (like on the gray ones here) I'll give you 3-4 of them if you don't mind the new green patina they are taking on especially around the shell connector Just drop me a PM and they are yours


----------



## hakuzen

mbwilson111 said:


> Nice cable... which one is that?
> 
> I settled on medium Spinfits from my husband's Dunu (he was using something else on those).


thanks, yea, that copper color pairs nice with blue iems (and others); i love that color, and some people have stopped me at the streets to ask for the cable. apart of looking (which is important, glamour always), they are very well built (repairable quality plugs, progressive strand reliefs, etc.), are very soft and flexible, and have very good conductivity. you can get it at aliexpress (various sellers, like hotfi or avcck) for $21-$25 when at sale.

take a look at my LIST of budget cables. this is (52) copper. there are some variants: copper, copper + silver/tin plated copper, and silver/tin plated copper; last one has got the best conductivity from the three, but all them are in the low resistance side.
got better result with cables using this kind of plugs (let's call them chi-dolic, Chinese eidolic), than others using same wire (i think) but different plugs (Chinese neutrik, see cable 50; i've even tried the 16 cores version of this, and it's not worth it after comparing).
new cable from nicehck, number 53, copper version, has got a bronze tonality, not so bright, but amazing conductivity.

for more expensive iems, found excellent cables with that copper color, like THIS (various sellers, only 4 cores but of way thicker cable). got chi-dolic 2.5mm plug mmcx version, and total dc resistance of the cable is below 60mΩ (incredible).


----------



## hakuzen

mbwilson111 said:


> That's strange... My "Black Panther" is a bud")    BLUR Black Panther


that Y-splitter is genial



Podster said:


> Nice MB, sweet Fubar as well
> 
> I need to to the Lantern home so the whole team can be in one shot now
> 
> ...


the green patina pairs very well with green/blue AS10, ES4 or even green ZS6


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 5, 2018)

*** EDIT ***

With the BA10 en route I just can't picture upgrading the cables of a box-like IEM with "round" connectors.



 



Something like this seems more appropriate.



 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32823069081.html





 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32865791032.html 





 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32839397972.html



.....the general consensus is that the BA10 are somewhat difficult to keep in place so silicone ear hooks like the ones on my ZST will be used. 



 

BEST SILICONE EAR HOOKS EVAAAAAAAH!!!
The cable stays inside the channel and the IEM doesn't budge. 
$7 for a set of four. 


https://www.amazon.com/Cosmos-Remov...+ear+hooks&dpPl=1&dpID=418Ntw5XMcL&ref=plSrch



 Problem solved.



Really looking forward to comparing the BA10 with the ZS6 across all genres to determine it's strengths, weaknesses and find out how they differ. 











Spoiler


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Deleted


----------



## sino8r (Oct 4, 2018)

Update on BA10, apparently you can get a decent seal on these with spinfit tips. The original spinfits work nicely along with the double flange spins. The standard KZ and even a pair of comply foams wouldn't pull it off and came unsealed and sounded uneven for me. After this adjustment, they are alot more comfortable and even enjoyably! I still say the highs on these and AS10s are a bit harsh but not anymore so than the ZS6 etc. I'm gonna go a final comparison of these between the Fiio FH5 and the TFZ Secret Garden that arrive tomorrow. I know it's not a fair comparison but am curious how they will stand up against the next step up of Chi-Fis. From my recent experience with TFZ, I imagine the mids will be slightly fuller and the highs a bit more tame. That's to be expected with a dynamic driver though. The Fiio FH5 on the other hand, I'm not sure. Has one DD and a couple of Knowles BAs. These will probably be closer to the AS10s & BA10s soundwise. We'll see if Knowles lives up to their hype. KA has really stepped up their game in BA department lately. I maybe  surprised? I'll report back here tomorrow night or the next day with some results.


----------



## sanakimpro

Heya! I'm a new ChiFier. Well..not really, I got some DX90s and Cayins. 

But, I got a question on KZ upgrade cables. I bought a medium range multibraided SPC cable for $8 and so far I think it can't be beat for it's price. Everything is great. I only wished the soundstage was deeper and the bass reached lower. There is a mid and upper bass (40-100hz) hump and a sharp subbass roll off. I am using it with my AK T8ie MK II. I know some will say I'm mad for pairing it with a premium IEM but I just want to try it, given that that the cable was so cheap! In fact, the reason I'm looking at a new cable is because this $8 cable so damn good (or perhaps cable effect is snakeoil ) !

So now I'm looking at 16 core (8 SPC + 8OCC), Ag x Cu (4N OCC copper cable mixed with 4 cores of 4N silver plated OCC ) and Gold Plated OCC (8 core gold plated OCC) and Ag16 (16 core SPC). I need them with MMCX and single-ended connection. Sorry I only have links to our local supplier. I can't find them elsewhere.

https://shopee.com.my/16Cores-Multibraided-IEM-Upgrade-Cable-i.6548893.1181296421
https://shopee.com.my/HillAudio-Premium-Gold-plated-IEM-Upgrade-Cable-i.6548893.749691020
https://shopee.com.my/HillAudio-Ag-x-Cu-Premium-Hifi-Audio-Cable-i.6548893.1440197965
https://shopee.com.my/HillAudio-AG16-IEM-Upgrade-Cable-i.6548893.1477929057

I'm looking for a more rounded sound, v-shaped, *open back soundstage with air between instruments*. I love the 3D soundstage where the singer and the background music is distinctly separate. I know I'm basically trying to emulate a car speaker experience, which is nigh impossible in a closed-back IEM.. I know... but what the heck?

I listen to a lot of Electronic pop, Korean pop and prefer sweet mellow female vocals. Currently I'm ignoring the Ag16 as I think it will be too bright. AK T8ie MK II can be a bit bright and claustrophobic if paired with silver cable as bass is recessed and mids dominate. It is also a bit sibilance prone even with the stock SPC cable. Out of the 3, I've heard a lot of good things from Ag X Cu pairings and the 16core 

Any other recommendations? Do you have these cables and can you comment on their tonality, SQ, etc?


----------



## nxnje

Enjoying my new ZS6 atm.
I have to say they are just amazing.
Stock tips were painful, piercing highs, huge sibilance, strong sharpness.
I switched to foam tips with the silicon tube, i still cannot hear some details that are present with silicone tips.

Then an idea popped me.
Why not using v80s tips or KZ ED9 ones (which i find identical, correct me if i'm wrong).
They now sound splendid.
I think they have to be burned in for much time, atm i downloaded the 1more app to burn them, but 12 hours are too much time maybe for my phone.
Which kind of burn in do you advice?
Maybe listening to them for many hours can contribute burning them in a bad way..


----------



## Pruikki

fuzzybabybunny said:


> Wow, my AS10s are less than a month old and have already died.
> 
> The right side is now significantly louder than the left side.
> 
> ...




YES same here! i have right side less loud than left, as if balance is towards left 70/30 or 60/40.

ANYONE ELSE? has problems with AS10? seems not balanced audio? not so 50 50 in my case. more like 60 40 and u hear it most in speech and such. annoying..43€ wasted.


----------



## CoiL

AS10 prices will drop soon... I`m psychic, ya know!


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> AS10 prices will drop soon... I`m psychic, ya know!



They already did, lol.


----------



## Tunaa

Hey guys, i have chance to buy Sennheiser Momentum In Ear(Second Hand But almost brand new) And KZ AS10. I know sennheiser way more expensive but its second hand so the prices are nearly the same for me.  In terms of sound quality everything is important  So help me to decide which one i should choose.


----------



## khighly

basshead11 said:


> new kz 1dd+da booring
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1045643741069889536



Definitely getting the pink one


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> AS10 prices will drop soon... I`m psychic, ya know!



Say Coil, are those your modded IT01's in your avatar? I know your quality of craft,amship and by what I can see they look schweeeeet

Tough call on the Senn's @Tunaa , if they are pristine I would probably pick them up, see what you think and then decide if you want to pick up a pair of AS-10's but that's just me! Good luck


----------



## wdoerr

_The right side is now significantly louder than the left side._

Sounds like they have been damaged.  Did you drop them or bounce them off a table.

It sounds like one BA went bad.

This is the reason I will never buy an expensive multi-BA IEM, too fragile.


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 5, 2018)

atoniolin said:


> Heya! I'm a new ChiFier. Well..not really, I got some DX90s and Cayins.
> 
> But, I got a question on KZ upgrade cables. I bought a medium range multibraided SPC cable for $8 and so far I think it can't be beat for it's price. Everything is great. I only wished the soundstage was deeper and the bass reached lower. There is a mid and upper bass (40-100hz) hump and a sharp subbass roll off. I am using it with my AK T8ie MK II. I know some will say I'm mad for pairing it with a premium IEM but I just want to try it, given that that the cable was so cheap! In fact, the reason I'm looking at a new cable is because this $8 cable so damn good (or perhaps cable effect is snakeoil ) !
> 
> ...


i'm afraid you are not going to alter the sound that way (tonality, soundstage, separation) by the mere use of one cable or another. about tonality, measured same iem with quite different cables, and frequency response was exactly the same (only difference was the overall volume level, due to different electrical resistance). but after hearing, there is an slight different perception; it's not about tonality (as stated by FR measurements), don't know if it's pure brain bias, or related to other sound parameters (i plan to measure other parameters, like distortion and impulse response, once volume level is matched 100%). maybe Ag makes the sound minimally thinner, colder (hence the lighter perception of bass).
so my criteria about cables is conductivity (it's a symptom of quality of materials -wire, plugs, and solders-), together with other build details (strain reliefs and easy repairable plugs -durability-), comfort (flexibility -microphonics-, softness, weight, length, ear guides), and looking (audio porn is important for the soul).

haven't tried any of these cables, although they are in my lunashops and aliexpress baskets. the plugs and thickness look good enough.

my first experience with 16 cores vs 8 cores (same kind of wire, total section is about +20% -very roughly- thicker in 16 core version, not 100%, because each core contains fewer strands and/or thinner strands) says that quality of plugs and solders play a more important role than 16 vs 8 wire (in this price segment, same wire material). my best cable has got only 4 cores (but many strands in each).

about material of the wire, i'll receive a high quality (supposedly) 7N pure silver cable on monday, and will A/B with my best copper cable. other pure Ag cables in my stock are meh. silver (or tin, in most cases, although not advertised) plated copper cables.. can't find the difference with copper.
got one of these copper + silver/tin plated copper mixed: it seems that copper was used for ground, and spc for signal. dunno if this is usual for mixed cables, but guess it wouldn't be so.
terms like "high purity", "ofc", even "occ" look less important than grade (4-7N). anyway, who knows if manufacturer/seller info can be trusted?

this is my particular experience with chi-cables.. trying to learn and get conclusions by my own, helped by some measurements. i might be totally mistaken.. but hope my opinion be useful some way in order to decide your cable.

EDIT:
however, at double the price of these cables, at 11.11, you could get premium cables for your AK T8ie MK II. fewer cores, but wider total section. for example:
Cu: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot...ded-Balanced-Cable-With-MMCX/32915015689.html (<60mΩ average)
Ag: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/***...-4mm-Balanced-Earphone-Cable/32922963030.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMC...hone-Cable-Extremely-Soft-7N/32890074065.html


----------



## pbui44 (Oct 5, 2018)

khighly said:


> Definitely getting the pink one



Looks purple, like this TFZ:

https://penonaudio.com/tfz-exclusive-1.html

or this TFZ:

https://penonaudio.com/tfz-series-1s-my-love-special-ver..html

or the pricey TFZ Secret Garden:

https://penonaudio.com/tfz-secret-garden-3.html?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100


----------



## s8grave

Tunaa, get AS10. Dont buy momentum ie - they sound much simpler, more V-shape, and mainly have issues with wire quality. Wire isolation quickly degrades and breaks, same trouble with cx 3.00, cx 5.00.

It is not my imagination, I worked in headphones market for 3 years.
So my advice is AS10, total nobrainer.


----------



## Tunaa

s8grave said:


> Tunaa, get AS10. Dont buy momentum ie - they sound much simpler, more V-shape, and mainly have issues with wire quality. Wire isolation quickly degrades and breaks, same trouble with cx 3.00, cx 5.00.
> 
> It is not my imagination, I worked in headphones market for 3 years.
> So my advice is AS10, total nobrainer.


Thanks for that. I heard AS10's mids are the most forward mids compared to the other KZ IEMs. So I probably get AS10 Or maybe another IEMS Thanks again


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I haven't been reading this thread as much as I used to...has anyone had issues with the 'new and improved' stock cable? I bought some ZSA a few months ago and they arrived DOA, the button wasn't working when I pushed it, no pause, no track advancement....long story short, they sent me a new one, and after a couple of months use, the replacement cable is no longer working either. 
I like the way the iems sound, but part of why I bought them in the first place was I need an IEM with a button/mic. The cable that came with my ZS5 was no longer working with my phone (it kept advancing the track/pulling up google and other random bs) so, I got the ZSA. 
The only decent set of wires I have gotten from KZ are the ones that came with my ES3. I have had them nearly a year and they are still going strong.
Is there even a mic'd cable you can buy for KZ iems? As far as I know you have to buy a new set to get a mic'd cable....but it seems like the 'new and improved' one is garbage.


----------



## Joong (Oct 5, 2018)

Bananiq said:


> Thanks, so what Asian IEM would you consider to beat 100+ dollar IEMs?


According the equation of one of head-fier here: sound quality equation
* {material * ( looks + exotic names )/2 } * price = performance*
If the sum of Labor and R&D cost is considered as price, then substitute it for the price term in above equation and you got the answer of "YES definitely"
Another factor of Chinese material of magnet is also inexpensive in China, where more than 80% of worldwide Neodymium deposit amount is found, and after all China arguably found magnet first time in history.
Please refer to the inventor of the equation: @ruhenheiM


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TheVortex said:


> Looks like TRN have released some more aftermarket cables which are definitely more premium looking. They also come in 2 pin 0.75 and 0.78 sizes.


Which iem's use the 0.78 2 pin size?


----------



## Joong (Oct 6, 2018)

Joong said:


> According the equation of one of head-fier here: sound quality equation
> * {material * ( looks + exotic names )/2 } * price = performance*
> If the sum of Labor and R&D cost is considered as price, then substitute it for the price term in above equation and you got the answer of "YES definitely"
> Another factor of Chinese material of magnet is also inexpensive in China, where more than 80% of worldwide Neodymium deposit amount is found, and after all China arguably found magnet first time in history.
> Please refer to the inventor of the equation: @ruhenheiM


The equation should be rewritten as below:
"The performace of Chifi ÷ Chinese labor cost  =   Hifi performance ÷ Western labor cost"
This means you can get the same performance at 1/3 cost if the ratio of labor costs is 3 which includes R&D.


----------



## sanakimpro

hakuzen said:


> i'm afraid you are not going to alter the sound that way (tonality, soundstage, separation) by the mere use of one cable or another. about tonality, measured same iem with quite different cables, and frequency response was exactly the same (only difference was the overall volume level, due to different electrical resistance). but after hearing, there is an slight different perception; it's not about tonality (as stated by FR measurements), don't know if it's pure brain bias, or related to other sound parameters (i plan to measure other parameters, like distortion and impulse response, once volume level is matched 100%). maybe Ag makes the sound minimally thinner, colder (hence the lighter perception of bass).
> so my criteria about cables is conductivity (it's a symptom of quality of materials -wire, plugs, and solders-), together with other build details (strain reliefs and easy repairable plugs -durability-), comfort (flexibility -microphonics-, softness, weight, length, ear guides), and looking (audio porn is important for the soul).
> 
> haven't tried any of these cables, although they are in my lunashops and aliexpress baskets. the plugs and thickness look good enough.
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to write this. Yes, I also am feeling that the copper vs silver cables don't matter that much. What does matter is the quality of the plugs, the build etc. I will researching. Thanks

As for the premium cables, at those prices, I could be ordering from reputable cable companies like Null Audio, Moon Audio, Linum, etc.


----------



## scottySK

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which iem's use the 0.78 2 pin size?


I think KZ uses 0.75 while TRN uses 0.78


----------



## Trebor1966

Both uses 0,75mm


----------



## nxnje

Guys would you mind linking me a good box to put my zs6 in when i go out?
I saw two types of box:
1. The black one with the orange label "KZ acoustics" on, which is bigger
2. One colored resin box, which is smaller

Are there any other good options out there under 3/5$ ?
Or should i buy the black one with orange logo?


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 6, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Guys would you mind linking me a good box to put my zs6 in when i go out?
> I saw two types of box:
> 1. The black one with the orange label "KZ acoustics" on, which is bigger
> 2. One colored resin box, which is smaller
> ...




I use these two:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.4.555ca77aOghsJi

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.30.555ca77aOghsJi


The TRN is roomier. But in terms of build quality, the KZ one keeps it shape much better.

Addendum: 
Forgot to add, on sale, both of these will cost approx US$1/-  each.


----------



## eggnogg

i prefer the resin one, so cute


Spoiler: []


----------



## TheVortex (Oct 6, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which iem's use the 0.78 2 pin size?



KZ's use 0.75 but lot's of other chi-fi uses the 0.78 pin size.

Brands like BQEYZ and some other brands I can't mention here use the 0.78 variant.


----------



## nxnje

maxxevv said:


> I use these two:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.4.555ca77aOghsJi
> 
> ...





eggnogg said:


> i prefer the resin one, so cute
> 
> 
> Spoiler: []



Thanks for the answers.
Anyway, i was looking for a hard box like those 2 and not soft one with rigid cover (which i actually have, the old psp box )

I can't really choose between them
If i were buying the resin one, would there be a little space for a very little DAP like my agptek m20? Or there's no space and maybe the black one is more of a better choice?
Seems like the resin one can just contain one iem.


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> They already did, lol.


I know... but they will drop more! 


Podster said:


> Say Coil, are those your modded IT01's in your avatar? I know your quality of craft,amship and by what I can see they look schweeeeet


Hey... they are "old" already, lol. You must have missed my post about them. I know I promised to release modding guide on them but been too busy with family, teaching, learning, building  house etc.
Take a look at my gallery: https://www.head-fi.org/gallery/album/workshop.871146/?page=2


Spoiler: IT01 mod


----------



## hakuzen (Oct 6, 2018)

atoniolin said:


> Thanks for taking the time to write this. Yes, I also am feeling that the copper vs silver cables don't matter that much. What does matter is the quality of the plugs, the build etc. I will researching. Thanks
> 
> As for the premium cables, at those prices, I could be ordering from reputable cable companies like Null Audio, Moon Audio, Linum, etc.


you are right. at those prices, you can consider purchasing from reputable companies, but remember the sales. got mine at 60% its price (72 instead of 116). equivalent cables from those companies are far more expensive.


----------



## eggnogg

this KZ ZSN new cable pin is kinda...hmm redundant
the old one seems just fine.


----------



## Mellowship

eggnogg said:


> this KZ ZSN new cable pin is kinda...hmm redundant
> the old one seems just fine.


What a stupid thing to do when they have a line of cables. Having two kinds is just plain annoying, but now a third?


----------



## eggnogg

Mellowship said:


> Having two kinds is just plain annoying, but now a third



yeah so we need to cut those excess cover on the pin, if u plan to use the new cable on other KZ iem
copying QDC pin they seems


Spoiler: []


----------



## B9Scrambler

KZ improves their 2-pin connector and people @#$%. Sounds about right.


----------



## nxnje

Tried some tip rolling with my brand new zs6.
Seems like they like wide bore tips, like the one i had in my memt x5's packet.
Double flange+ wide bore.. HUGE. But unfortunately they are too short and i have to adjust them every moment


----------



## antdroid

Unique Melody uses that 2-pin style and it's a lot more secure and cleaner looking. That said you should be able to use normal cables with it fine. It just may look less smooth and clean.

Also, YMMV but I use the same two pin (0.78mm) on every iem I have and it works just fine. KZ, iSine, Unique Melody, Noble, TRN,  etc. I have also used KZ branded cables (0.75mm) on all of the above IEM brands as well.


----------



## rayliam80

nxnje said:


> Tried some tip rolling with my brand new zs6.
> Seems like they like wide bore tips, like the one i had in my memt x5's packet.
> Double flange+ wide bore.. HUGE. But unfortunately they are too short and i have to adjust them every moment



Triple flange. No need to adjust as long as the size of the tip is appropriate to your ear canal opening size. I use them with the ZS6 exclusively now.


----------



## sino8r

nxnje said:


> Tried some tip rolling with my brand new zs6.
> Seems like they like wide bore tips, like the one i had in my memt x5's packet.
> Double flange+ wide bore.. HUGE. But unfortunately they are too short and i have to adjust them every moment



I had the same problem with my old ZS6 and even the new BA10. Seems to be a consistent thing with about half of KZ's models. The representative in the fiio FH5 thread claimed something about western vs eastern ears which sounds ridiculous to me. TFZ don't have that issue and countless other Chi-Fis don't either. Anyways, try the triple flange, spin fit large bore, spinfit dual flange, and large comply tips. Those all work pretty well for those stubborn non sealing iems. I ordered a set of symbios and will see how they do as well.


----------



## nxnje

rayliam80 said:


> Triple flange. No need to adjust as long as the size of the tip is appropriate to your ear canal opening size. I use them with the ZS6 exclusively now.





sino8r said:


> I had the same problem with my old ZS6 and even the new BA10. Seems to be a consistent thing with about half of KZ's models. The representative in the fiio FH5 thread claimed something about western vs eastern ears which sounds ridiculous to me. TFZ don't have that issue and countless other Chi-Fis don't either. Anyways, try the triple flange, spin fit large bore, spinfit dual flange, and large comply tips. Those all work pretty well for those stubborn non sealing iems. I ordered a set of symbios and will see how they do as well.



Thanks a lot for the info shared. Gonna see if i find some triple flange tips online. Do you have cheap ones to link?


----------



## acia

B9Scrambler said:


> KZ improves their 2-pin connector and people @#$%. Sounds about right.


can they just use the 90.78 item standard??


----------



## Slater

eggnogg said:


> this KZ ZSN new cable pin is kinda...hmm redundant
> the old one seems just fine.



I wonder if it's somehow keyed, to prevent people from plugging it in out of phase?


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> I wonder if it's somehow keyed, to prevent people from plugging it in out of phase?



The main reason for the protruding 2-pin socket is to ensure durability, but it is also not tough for them to mold one side of the 2-pin socket-and-spacing as square and the other side as rounded to ensure a correct sound transmission for their respective sides.


----------



## Tunaa

Guys worth to upgrade AS10 ? Im currently using ZS6.


----------



## gazzington

I notice people suggest foams to tame treble on the zs6.  Which foams do people generally find work best?


----------



## zazaboy

@Tunaa kz zs6 is really good iem but not forgiving I would stick to it.. but if u need to upgrade .. we are getting a lot of iems lately so be patient breh


----------



## toddy0191 (Oct 7, 2018)

gazzington said:


> I notice people suggest foams to tame treble on the zs6.  Which foams do people generally find work best?



I use tips like these for both my ZS6 and ZS10.

They help tame the treble on the ZS6 and also get rid of the driver flex on the ZS10.

If you search AliExpress you can find rounded foam tips which also work well.

http


----------



## nxnje

toddy0191 said:


> I use tips like these for both my ZS6 and ZS10.
> 
> They help tame the treble on the ZS6 and also get rid of the driver flex on the ZS10.
> 
> ...



The kind of eartips you linked solved the treble peaks in my case, but ruined all the zs6's special thing: the sparkling and airy highs.
Highs seemed like the one in my memt x5, with a warm tone, i lost some details and some air.

I would advice looking for wide bore tips, seems like these earphones like so much thaf kind of eartips.


----------



## fluteloop

that new pin design will last me all of 5 minutes the way I pass out with stuff wrapped around my head/neck/face


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TheVortex said:


> KZ's use 0.75 but lot's of other chi-fi uses the 0.78 pin size.
> 
> Brands like BQEYZ and some other brands I can't mention here use the 0.78 variant.


I just noticed there is a TYPE A and TYPE B cable? Type A being straight and TYPE B being bent? (L Shape)... Does Type A or B matter in most scenarios?


----------



## HungryPanda

Slater said:


> I wonder if it's somehow keyed, to prevent people from plugging it in out of phase?


 Unless it comes out of phase


----------



## Tunaa

zazaboy said:


> @Tunaa kz zs6 is really good iem but not forgiving I would stick to it.. but if u need to upgrade .. we are getting a lot of iems lately so be patient breh


Well actually i've lost my left side of it. But im surviving with the right side  altough thats not enough for me  So should i buy a pair of AS10 or wait for another Kz iems ?


----------



## CoiL

Get ZSA or wait for ZS7


----------



## mbwilson111

I am still waiting for this because of the color.  I was planning for it to be my last KZ... maybe my last IEM as I have too many already.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I am still waiting for this because of the color.  I was planning for it to be my last KZ... maybe my last IEM as I have too many already.



Even if the ZS7 comes out in purple?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 7, 2018)

Slater said:


> Even if the ZS7 comes out in purple?



That ZS7 looks like it has a sliver plate hiding the purple.  I do not want the purple to just be that underneath bit.

I am confused though because I thought we decided that the ED16 was the ZS7 considering the fact that it says ZS7 right on the earpiece.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> That ZS7 looks like it has a sliver plate hiding the purple.  I do not want the purple do just be that underneath bit.
> 
> I am confused though because I thought we decided that the ED16 was the ZS7 considering the fact that it says ZS7 right on the earpiece.



Ah yeah, I forgot all about that!

I wonder how KZ is going to explain that?


----------



## khighly

Tunaa said:


> Well actually i've lost my left side of it. But im surviving with the right side  altough thats not enough for me  So should i buy a pair of AS10 or wait for another Kz iems ?


AS10 is totally different than the ZS6. AS10 is heavy with lows and not particularly bright. It is probably now my favorite IEM from KZ though.


----------



## CoiL

Yeah, I`m confused also. ED16 will probably stay ED16 as it looks totally different than ZS5 ZS6 ZSA and I personally think it is marketing fault. ZS7 should be similar looking to ZS5, ZS6 and ZSA with its all-metal shell and "campfire" looks.


----------



## EDG67

Hey guys new member here.Wanted to share my experience with the KZ ED16/ZS7. Got them about 3 weeks ago and love them.This is my first KZ iem and my first venture into chifi (well actually 2nd/ had Rock zircon and didn't like them). Also first multi driver iem. My preferred sound signature is balanced with good bass and big soundstage. Was trying to decide between ATE/ATR/ZS3/ED9/UIISII CM5 then I found the ed16 and loved the look, that electric blue was just sexy. So between the looks/small size(small ears) and great reviews decided to pull the trigger. OMG! the best sound I've ever heard in a pair of headphones.Most bass I've ever heard and the mids and treble are perfect and the soundstage is HUGE. I think the best part which I was worried about was the fit which is perfect. I usually have trouble wearing in ears but have no trouble and get a perfect seal. Not a fan of the cable but plan on upgrading in the future as well as trying other iems. Sorry for the long first post but wanted to share my love for them.


----------



## pbui44

EDG67 said:


> Hey guys new member here.Wanted to share my experience with the KZ ED16/ZS7. Got them about 3 weeks ago and love them.This is my first KZ iem and my first venture into chifi (well actually 2nd/ had Rock zircon and didn't like them). Also first multi driver iem. My preferred sound signature is balanced with good bass and big soundstage. Was trying to decide between ATE/ATR/ZS3/ED9/UIISII CM5 then I found the ed16 and loved the look, that electric blue was just sexy. So between the looks/small size(small ears) and great reviews decided to pull the trigger. OMG! the best sound I've ever heard in a pair of headphones.Most bass I've ever heard and the mids and treble are perfect and the soundstage is HUGE. I think the best part which I was worried about was the fit which is perfect. I usually have trouble wearing in ears but have no trouble and get a perfect seal. Not a fan of the cable but plan on upgrading in the future as well as trying other iems. Sorry for the long first post but wanted to share my love for them.



Welcome @EDG67 to head-fi, sorry about your wallet (not that sorry in the KZ thread ).

I loved my KZ ZS6 green w/ lip a lot, but it’s value was too much and went to someone who commutes in NYC, so I got a KZ ZSA instead and it as overall better than the ZS6 for me, just not in sound quality.  It’s value was still so good that I eventually found a revised TRN V10 for cheap and it became my go-to closed-back multi-driver IEM.  Still, I missed my old modded (fixed, really ) JVC FX700 so much (that darn new backplate over the vents of the new JVC woodies is too much for me) that I just bought a Magaosi BK50 Pro after hearing that it’s price dropped a bit.  Let’s see how that one sounds.


----------



## Tunaa

khighly said:


> AS10 is totally different than the ZS6. AS10 is heavy with lows and not particularly bright. It is probably now my favorite IEM from KZ though.


What about mids? Are they good as ZS6?or better?


----------



## EDG67

pbui44 said:


> Welcome @EDG67 to head-fi, sorry about your wallet (not that sorry in the KZ thread ).
> 
> I loved my KZ ZS6 green w/ lip a lot, but it’s value was too much and went to someone who commutes in NYC, so I got a KZ ZSA instead and it as overall better than the ZS6 for me, just not in sound quality.  It’s value was still so good that I eventually found a revised TRN V10 for cheap and it became my go-to closed-back multi-driver IEM.  Still, I missed my old modded (fixed, really ) JVC FX700 so much (that darn new backplate over the vents of the new JVC woodies is too much for me) that I just bought a Magaosi BK50 Pro after hearing that it’s price dropped a bit.  Let’s see how that one sounds.


----------



## EDG67

Not sorry at all pbui44, best $23 ever spent.Also thinking about the TRN V10, looks good


----------



## EDG67

Also ordered the Kz 4.2 Bluetooth cable which should be here this afternoon. I know it gets bad reviews but funds are limited but just want to try it out. Hopefully it will be good. Got mostly for work.


----------



## sino8r

EDG67 said:


> Also ordered the Kz 4.2 Bluetooth cable which should be here this afternoon. I know it gets bad reviews but funds are limited but just want to try it out. Hopefully it will be good. Got mostly for work.



I would have gotten the old 4.1 version TRN before that although maybe KZ has improved their bluetooth with their newest version that looks like the TRN. Let us know how it works out! If it ends up being bad, either 3 of the TRN bluetooth work pretty well. The two newer ones include aptx if that's a factor.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

EDG67 said:


> Hey guys new member here.Wanted to share my experience with the KZ ED16/ZS7. Got them about 3 weeks ago and love them.This is my first KZ iem and my first venture into chifi (well actually 2nd/ had Rock zircon and didn't like them). Also first multi driver iem. My preferred sound signature is balanced with good bass and big soundstage. Was trying to decide between ATE/ATR/ZS3/ED9/UIISII CM5 then I found the ed16 and loved the look, that electric blue was just sexy. So between the looks/small size(small ears) and great reviews decided to pull the trigger. OMG! the best sound I've ever heard in a pair of headphones.Most bass I've ever heard and the mids and treble are perfect and the soundstage is HUGE. I think the best part which I was worried about was the fit which is perfect. I usually have trouble wearing in ears but have no trouble and get a perfect seal. Not a fan of the cable but plan on upgrading in the future as well as trying other iems. Sorry for the long first post but wanted to share my love for them.



I had to put Zircon Medium tips on my ED16 to get a good fit. I usually use large tips. The headhones were useless (no seal) without new tips. Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## loomisjohnson

get the trn v80 instead.


----------



## sino8r

pbui44 said:


> Welcome @EDG67 to head-fi, sorry about your wallet (not that sorry in the KZ thread ).
> 
> I loved my KZ ZS6 green w/ lip a lot, but it’s value was too much and went to someone who commutes in NYC, so I got a KZ ZSA instead and it as overall better than the ZS6 for me, just not in sound quality.  It’s value was still so good that I eventually found a revised TRN V10 for cheap and it became my go-to closed-back multi-driver IEM.  Still, I missed my old modded (fixed, really ) JVC FX700 so much (that darn new backplate over the vents of the new JVC woodies is too much for me) that I just bought a Magaosi BK50 Pro after hearing that it’s price dropped a bit.  Let’s see how that one sounds.



Is the green ZS6 actually valuable lol? I have the one without the lip. I maybe try the ba mod since I got some tips that allow me to seal these properly.


----------



## EDG67

sino8r said:


> I would have gotten the old 4.1 version TRN before that although maybe KZ has improved their bluetooth with their newest version that looks like the TRN. Let us know how it works out! If it ends up being bad, either 3 of the TRN bluetooth work pretty well. The two newer ones include aptx if that's a factor.[/QUOTE
> Only been using for a few minutes but the audio has already dropped out several times, but I knew there was a chance of that happening going in. Otherwise paired with no problem and sounds good.Pretty close to sound with stock cable.Will give it a chance. Ordered from Amazon so hopefully I can return them.


----------



## sino8r

Yeah, that's been my experience with KZ bluetooth in past. If remember correctly, it's something to do with KZs placement of the antenna internally. I have all 3 of the TRN and none of them have that issue fortunately. The range is decent but not as good as some of the higher end bluetooth earbuds. You won't have connectivity issues with your phone or amp in your pocket though like the KZs. I'm sure you can return it on Amazon with no problem. Good luck!


----------



## EDG67

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I had to put Zircon Medium tips on my ED16 to get a good fit. I usually use large tips. The headhones were useless (no seal) without new tips. Anyone else have this issue?


Don't have zircon tips anymore, just using the stock tips. But they work well for me,don't fall out and are comfy


----------



## NeonHD

EDG67 said:


> Also ordered the Kz 4.2 Bluetooth cable which should be here this afternoon. I know it gets bad reviews but funds are limited but just want to try it out. Hopefully it will be good. Got mostly for work.



I think it'll work just fine as long as you have a good phone. My previous phone was a Lenovo and the bluetooth connection on the KZ bluetooth module was horribly laggy and slow, got a LG G4 now and my music never once lagged or started skipping.


----------



## EDG67

NeonHD said:


> I think it'll work just fine as long as you have a good phone. My previous phone was a Lenovo and the bluetooth connection on the KZ bluetooth module was horribly laggy and slow, got a LG G4 now and my music never once lagged or started skipping.


The sound keeps restarting if that's the right word, sound drops and fades back in.Don't even have my phone in my pocket. Not doing it as much the more I listen but still doing it. Guess got a lemon.Will return


----------



## EDG67

EDG67 said:


> The sound keeps restarting if that's the right word, sound drops and fades back in.Don't even have my phone in my pocket. Not doing it as much the more I listen but still doing it. Guess got a lemon.Will return


Yeah mine is just a low end TracFone maybe that's the problem


----------



## NeonHD

EDG67 said:


> Yeah mine is just a low end TracFone maybe that's the problem



Yeah try connecting to a more higher-end device. I used to get the same result on my old lenovo phone.


----------



## NeonHD

BTW has anyone here tried the KZ ZS4 yet? I've been reading ThePhonograph's review on it and they seem very good.

Can any ZS4 users tell me whether or not the treble is sibilant or piercing (in relations to other chi-fi)? And if someone here has also used the ZS3, would you say that it's a major upgrade?


----------



## sino8r

NeonHD said:


> Yeah try connecting to a more higher-end device. I used to get the same result on my old lenovo phone.



That could be true. Mine is a Samsung Note 4 and my newer iPad mini does seem to have a longer connection distance wise. I still say he should get the TRN and won't have that issue no matter the device. To each his own I guess


----------



## eggnogg (Oct 8, 2018)

kz new cable w/ trn-style earhook, finally!
and at very low price for 8-core one!



Spoiler: []











[]






*edit
kz 2pin/MMCX lightning cable


Spoiler: []


----------



## CoiL

NeonHD said:


> Can any ZS4 users tell me whether or not the treble is sibilant or piercing (in relations to other chi-fi)? And if someone here has also used the ZS3, would you say that it's a major upgrade?


ZS4 has sibilance in highs and quite "tss tss tss" monotone highs by BA. DD is really good though.


----------



## phrancini

Hello everybody, 
since I'm pretty sure my next phone will lack the headphone jack (damn!) is there any non-oem bluetooth adapter for kz iems? Some time ago I bought the first kz made and then the aptx one hoping it would be better. They both sound absolutely s**t. The sound seems to go through a compressor, highs and sub bass are clipped, it makes me want throw away my zs6. 

I already have a fiio btr adapter but I'm looking for something more portable.


----------



## Mellowship

The Trn bluetooth adapters are compatible with KZ IEMs with detachable cables (0.75 mm) and from impressions posted here, they seem way better than the KZ ones.
Also, you can opt for a USB-C dongle or cable. KZ has a USB-C cable with a DAC inside the USB plug. There are good quality dongles out there too, USB-C to 3.5 mm jack. Look at the Hidizs Sonata.


----------



## fuzzybabybunny

phrancini said:


> Hello everybody,
> since I'm pretty sure my next phone will lack the headphone jack (damn!) is there any non-oem bluetooth adapter for kz iems? Some time ago I bought the first kz made and then the aptx one hoping it would be better. They both sound absolutely s**t. The sound seems to go through a compressor, highs and sub bass are clipped, it makes me want throw away my zs6.
> 
> I already have a fiio btr adapter but I'm looking for something more portable.



EarStudio ES100 would be a really good option. FYI Samsung seems to be the last remaining holdouts on the headphone jack.


----------



## phrancini

fuzzybabybunny said:


> EarStudio ES100 would be a really good option. FYI Samsung seems to be the last remaining holdouts on the headphone jack.



Thanks to both of you. I'm going to be taking a look at the ones you mentioned. 

I already have a samsung s8 but I'm not sure it'll last..


----------



## Mellowship

fuzzybabybunny said:


> EarStudio ES100 would be a really good option. FYI Samsung seems to be the last remaining holdouts on the headphone jack.


If the trade of keeping the 3.5 panel jack on smartphones is giving us very small and bad quality plugs with failing springs and contacts, and underpowered DACs and amps, I rather not have the space taken by a lousy hole and use a good quality dongle and/or BT. Charging at the same time? Make wireless charging the standard.


----------



## SiggyFraud

eggnogg said:


> kz new cable w/ trn-style earhook, finally!
> and at very low price for 8-core one!
> 
> 
> ...


Is it already available for purchase? Could you post a link?


----------



## phrancini

Mellowship said:


> If the trade of keeping the 3.5 panel jack on smartphones is giving us very small and bad quality plugs with failing springs and contacts, and underpowered DACs and amps, I rather not have the space taken by a lousy hole and use a good quality dongle and/or BT. Charging at the same time? Make wireless charging the standard.




I've never had a female jack fail on me. It's usually the male that gets damaged. Not to mention the fact that you cannot wireless charge the phone or the headphones while using it. 
quality matters: 8/10 bt adapters suck, and even if it supports aptx ldac or whatever, the phone has to support it as well. Too many drawbacks in my opinion atm..


----------



## Mellowship

NeonHD said:


> BTW has anyone here tried the KZ ZS4 yet? I've been reading ThePhonograph's review on it and they seem very good.
> 
> Can any ZS4 users tell me whether or not the treble is sibilant or piercing (in relations to other chi-fi)? And if someone here has also used the ZS3, would you say that it's a major upgrade?


I really like the ZS4. Had some problems with sibilance in the beginning, but with foam tips they go down quite a bit. Also, the brain burn-in seems to have come in play for me, they don't affect me as much now. The bass is great.
I have two ZS3 pairs, and I think the ZS4 is a major upgrade to the sound: more controlled bass, better mids (although still slightly recessed) and much more highs. Some users complained about some lack of coherence in transitioning from the dynamic ranges to the balanced armature frequency ranges, but I don't have such perception.


----------



## HungryPanda

phrancini said:


> I've never had a female jack fail on me. It's usually the male that gets damaged. Not to mention the fact that you cannot wireless charge the phone or the headphones while using it.
> quality matters: 8/10 bt adapters suck, and even if it supports aptx ldac or whatever, the phone has to support it as well. Too many drawbacks in my opinion atm..


 My LG V30 jack has started to annoy me as the left channel keeps cutting out and I have to twist earphone jack to sort it out


----------



## CoiL (Oct 8, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> I really like the ZS4. Had some problems with sibilance in the beginning, but with* (3) foam tips* they go down quite a bit. Also, the *(2) brain burn-in* seems to have come in play for me, they don't affect me as much now. The bass is great.
> I have two ZS3 pairs, and I think the ZS4 is a major upgrade to the sound: more controlled bass, better mids (although still slightly recessed) and much more highs. Some users complained about some lack of coherence in transitioning from the dynamic ranges to the balanced armature frequency ranges, *(1) but I don't have such perception.*


*1 = 2 + 3
*
...but that doesn`t mean ZS4 does not have transition/coherence/sibilance problem.
They have sibilance and crossover/transition between DD and BA is not right.
While foam tips can solve some sibilance issues (depending on user hearing), I can not approve attitude "Your brain will burn-in" - it is You ears that take the physical real damage in the end (high frequencies will damage hearing first). Human brain is able to adobt and "correct" many things but our physical body will still take the hit. Fact & real life.
Better to deal with cause than symptomatic treatment.
Of course everything in audio is basically subjective in the end and ppl think what they want. Just wanted to share my opinion and wish ppl would keep their hearing


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> *1 = 2 + 3
> *
> ...but that doesn`t mean ZS4 does not have transition/coherence/sibilance problem.
> They have sibilance and crossover/transition between DD and BA is not right.
> ...



Yes! Everyone must keep their volumes at healthy levels!  

Human brain is really very plastic, and it will "fill in the gaps" or "hide the stains". But you are absolutely right. The inner ears will take the damage before anything else. 

A good thing about the ZS4 is that it isolates so well you'll never need much amplitude to produce satisfactory sound pressure levels in your ear canal. 

Regarding my own personal experience with ZS4, I am afraid my views, despite honest, are skewed by the kind of music I've been listening to lately, which includes mostly acoustic material and some 70's prog. So, there is no EDM, no contemporary Pop music, no HipHop and no classical/orchestral music in the equation. It reminds me that everything we say here is not only "basically" subjective but also, and most importantly, inherently subjective, and should be taken with a grain or two of salt. One does not remember often to disclose the conditions and context of one's earphone experiences, and that should be important.

@CoiL , can you please suggest some tracks where I can check that transitional effect better? And some that are ridden with sibilance?


----------



## durwood

HungryPanda said:


> My LG V30 jack has started to annoy me as the left channel keeps cutting out and I have to twist earphone jack to sort it out



Seems like too new of phone to have that kind of problem. Maybe it has a bit of pocket fuzz in the jack preventing the jack to go all the way in? A cowoker of mine recommended cleaning out all jacks and plugs on phones with something like "GUM soft picks". Once you start cleaning out the lint you will be amazed at how much easily gets packed in there.

/PSA=public service announcement


----------



## CoiL

Will try to find You some good example songs but I claim it mostly compared to other gear I have by listening different kind of music. Going back or coming from IT01 it is all immediately noticeable.
ZS4 cymbals is main thing that disturbs me - it doesn`t sound dynamical and natural. 
Out from memory..
for sibilance maybe these to test: 


for coherence:



maybe those tracks aren`t good, idk atm as I`m behind laptop with no DAP/IEMs.


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Will try to find You some good example songs but I claim it mostly compared to other gear I have by listening different kind of music. Going back or coming from IT01 it is all immediately noticeable.
> ZS4 cymbals is main thing that disturbs me - it doesn`t sound dynamical and natural.
> Out from memory..
> for sibilance maybe these to test:
> ...


Thank you very much, @CoiL .
I'll listen carefully!


----------



## Tunaa

*Hi to everyone. *im considering to buy a pair of AS10 or Tin audio T2. I listen every genre. But mostly rap, acoustic, EDM so could you guys compare them ?


----------



## Podster (Oct 8, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> KZ improves their 2-pin connector and people @#$%. Sounds about right.



Right, seems this latest rendition is the best so fa! I personally like the overlap female connector as opposed to the male on the cable side

@CoiL , that "Already Old" comment made me spit coffee at my monitor, in the true KZ spirit the ZSN will be old next week LOL (Really love those IT01 face plates, very sweet) You know by the time my ZSN's get here from China KZ will have 3 new models

Speaking of outdated Granpa's





@CoiL , almost forgot! Digging me some Mars Volta


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Thank you very much, @CoiL .
> I'll listen carefully!



A good track for sibilance and sharp highs is “Juliet of the Spirits” from the B52 Funplex album. I use a flac rip direct from the CD, so I don’t know if a YouTube version would show the same characteristics.

Anyways, they used hot/sibilant mics and/or hot mastering, not just for the vocals but also some of the electronic sounds in the song. No really good cymbal crashes though, so you have to find other songs for that.

It’s one of the main tracks I use to evaluate that aspect of sound. You will notice differences right away between gear that has smooth treble vs gear that has sharp or sibilant treble.

Hope that helps.


----------



## CoiL

Podster said:


> Really love those IT01 face plates


Just to make sure - they are not just faceplates for beauty - that open holes structure and inner plate "piston air-pressure reflector" design enhance SQ quite noticeably, towards more neutral but still slight U-shape sound signature. Also wood selection plays role - special selected hardwood (walnut) in layers (wanted Lilac which is little better but hard to get right pieces).

Sorry for OT.


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Just to make sure - they are not just faceplates for beauty - that open holes structure and inner plate "piston air-pressure reflector" design enhance SQ quite noticeably, towards more neutral but still slight U-shape sound signature. Also wood selection plays role - special selected hardwood (walnut) in layers (wanted Lilac which is little better but hard to get right pieces).
> 
> Sorry for OT.



Oh I knew your mods were not just for looks alone, I'm also sure that hole design is functional as well. They kind of remind me of a LAG acoustic I picked up in France in 1978 It had a hole pattern reminiscent of that one. 

Listening to a little 'the the" on my Mrobo C5 "Paper Weight" with matching 6's


----------



## phrancini

HungryPanda said:


> My LG V30 jack has started to annoy me as the left channel keeps cutting out and I have to twist earphone jack to sort it out



I don't know what to say, maybe it's some dirt inside the plug as suggested.. The v30 is pretty new also.. I usually keep my phone for 2/2.5 years and I plug/unplug some kind of headphones 5-6 times a day. Everytime was the male jack getting worn out either on the "plug" or "L" part.

I consider myself an "early adopter" I even tried many wireless headphones but none was 100% satisfying, that's why i'm sticking with cables...


----------



## thebigredpolos

SiggyFraud said:


> Is it already available for purchase? Could you post a link?


Appears to be for sale already.  I don't see any mention of it being a preorder.  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...MCX-Pin-for-ZST-ZS10/1358152_32942812532.html


----------



## penmarker

I bought a KZ ZS5 used from my local forum. It came in this white box instead of the fancy black ones like you see on google. Is this fake or something? It sounds quite bad.


----------



## KevDzn (Oct 9, 2018)

penmarker said:


> I bought a KZ ZS5 used from my local forum. It came in this white box instead of the fancy black ones like you see on google. Is this fake or something? It sounds quite bad.



That's the zs5 v2 you got there. Treble is kinda hot similar to zs6. Zs5 v1 is much much better but it's hard to find nowadays.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> A good track for sibilance and sharp highs is “Juliet of the Spirits” from the B52 Funplex album. I use a flac rip direct from the CD, so I don’t know if a YouTube version would show the same characteristics.
> 
> Anyways, they used hot/sibilant mics and/or hot mastering, not just for the vocals but also some of the electronic sounds in the song. No really good cymbal crashes though, so you have to find other songs for that.
> 
> ...


Many thanks @Slater and @CoiL . 
I'm traveling at the moment, but I got the ZS4 with me. I'll give it a try when I find some time.


----------



## Tunaa

penmarker said:


> I bought a KZ ZS5 used from my local forum. It came in this white box instead of the fancy black ones like you see on google. Is this fake or something? It sounds quite bad.


No they are not fake at all. I have seen only few black boxes from few reviewers. But what do you mean they are sound bad ? If its because of Treble The ZS5 and ZS6s are treble cannons so..


----------



## groucho69

KevDzn said:


> That's the zs5 v2 you got there. Treble is kinda hot similar to zs6. Zs5 v1 is much much better but it's hard to find nowadays.



Try foam tips


----------



## Letm

After a couple of weeks with the ed16, for use in the office, i have to say that I'm very pleased. And, yeah, use foam tips. Right now I'm using my LG g7 as a source with my ed16 and my HD 598 sr. 

Should i use an amp? My HD 598 sr sound loud enough but the ed16, as low impedance iems, cannot activate the gain of the LG g7.


----------



## pbui44

Man, I am surprised that the Drug Enforcement Administration has not designated KZ earphones as “highly addictive” or “a gateway drug”, because now I have a revised TRN V10 and Magaosi BK50 Pro to go with my KZ ZSAs!  Now I am satisfied...or am I???


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 11, 2018)

So, good news and great news.

Good news:

Yesterday I had errands to run from noon until well after sundown and I spent the entire day with my ZSR.



 

I have to say that the ZSR was an excellent companion. My fatigue-free session was more than nine hours and I absolutely loved every minute of it. 

There was more than enough micro-detail on tracks that I am thoroughly familiar with. Serving up all the micro-detail one can handle on the go with zero fatigue is impressive enough but to simultaneously deliver a rich midrange with defined and authoritative bass in equal measure is what makes the ZSR so special to me. I had an excellent seal throughout the day using the eartips that came with my BGVP DM5. The isolation wasn't as impressive as the ZS3's isolation but few IEMs isolate that well. I'd say the ZSR has about 85% of the ZS3's isolation for my ears.

The ZS6 has been my favorite IEM for the last year but my ZS6 will never be led outdoors because while they are a ton of fun they are also a more analytical listen due to the voluminous amount of detail across the frequency spectrum. 

All in all, I stand by my original review of the ZSR. It's a very, very good IEM at it's ridiculously low $28 price tag. Just do yourself a favor and move past the stock cables. 

These should suffice at $11 (disregard the MMCX portion of the picture)



 


Bottom line:

The ZSR is my go-to IEM for the great outdoors. 


The great news:

The BA10 is in the house!




 

I spent three hours with them and I'll be spending the next few days pouring over different genres to report back as accurate as is humanly possible (for my ears). My ears are on the larger size so I had zero discomfort, even after three hours with a rectangular shaped IEM. I haven't even pulled out the memory wire so I can install my silicone earhooks yet so that's a good sign for those of you that like the memory wire or for those of you with larger ears.

First impressions are as follows:

If you liked the sound signature of the original matte black ZS3 and you have larger ears then you will like the BA10. Initial impressions are that it sounds like a more refined "original" ZS3.

Indeed, I pulled out my matte ZS3 for comparison purposes (though this is a photo of the glossy ZS3). Be aware that the original ZS3 was shipped with "NO" foam in the nozzle. The foam makes the ZS3 boomy and muffled. 






Took me about two hours of playtime to place the sound signature. Then I pulled out my ZS3's and boom......there it was. Then I searched for FR graphs and.....voila! 


I'm not necessarily a big follower of "The Phonograph.net", but their graphs coincide with what I am hearing.



 



 


The midrange and bass are on equal footing. Bass is full-on and midrange is rich.
Note that the treble trails off in similar fashion to the ZS3. This is also how I hear it.


This next FR graph is AntDroid's and it is close to what I am hearing, although, to my ears the red line should be where the green line is because, again, the bass and midrange are on equal footing. That would also mean that the AS10 midrange would still climb higher (all things being equal) and the AS10 would have more midrange presence than the BA10 (B9 can probably confirm or deny my hypothesis since he owns both IEMs).




 


For me, wide-bore shallow depth silicone eartips worked best. The wide-bore may assist in the bass having a more diffuse presentation allowing the midrange to come slightly more forward than you see in the above graph. Again, to my ears, the bass and midrange are on equal footing. With narrow-bore silicone eartips the upper-midrange became borderline strident on occasion. 

My matte black ZS3 sounds clear; the midrange is just as prominent and clean as the slammin' bass. The BA10 sounds like a cleaner, smoother ZS3 a few tiers up in timbre while displaying much higher resolution.

And that bass......
thus far, it sounds like a very clean dynamic driver that takes no prisoners.
Again, this is with wide-bore silicone eartips and the BA10 coupled to my bright-leaning ZuneHD. Next I'll use the more powerful Fiio X3(i) and note any nuances that may or may not exist.


I'm still not a fan of the red and gold. I'll wait until the price drops then I'll pick up the BA10 in black/red. I'll swap the faceplates and the end result will be one completely red BA10 that I can use white or copper cables with and one black BA10 with a gold faceplate that I can use a black cable with. 

If anyone has a link to the black KZ cable with the 90°+/- angle please share it. They seemed to have disappeared almost as quickly as they appeared.



 




 





https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aliexpress.com/item/32899379734.html


I know about Kinboofi and other black cables but their round connector heads coupled to a box-like receptacle will bug me to no end......even if said cables are superior.


In the end I'll likely use the BA10's laid back sound signature for chillout sessions.



Spoiler



Zero 7 - Home 


Lilac Wine (Album Leaf Remix)


Tiesto - Close To You


Try (SweetWesty Remix)


----------



## antdroid

DocHoliday said:


> The great news:
> 
> The BA10 is in the house!
> 
> ...



Glad to hear this fits you well and good news for larger ear people! Would love to hear your sound impressions in the future when you're ready!


----------



## SiggyFraud

DocHoliday said:


> So, good news and great news.
> 
> Good news:
> 
> ...




There you go. I recently bought one of these. It sure makes my black ZS6 look good.
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/0jHd0qV


----------



## KevDzn

groucho69 said:


> Try foam



Yeah, foam does helps.


----------



## penmarker

KevDzn said:


> That's the zs5 v2 you got there. Treble is kinda hot similar to zs6. Zs5 v1 is much much better but it's hard to find nowadays.





Tunaa said:


> No they are not fake at all. I have seen only few black boxes from few reviewers. But what do you mean they are sound bad ? If its because of Treble The ZS5 and ZS6s are treble cannons so..


Thanks guys.

They have pretty harsh treble. I'm still ok with hot treble but these are affecting the mids making them sound rather breathy/raspy. Overall dynamics is also not too great, they're not as good as most reviewers hyped them to be. The V1 needs to be a lot lot better than these V2 to receive high praises.


----------



## Asymptote123 (Oct 10, 2018)

My ED16 finally arrived. Thank you all who recommended these, money well spent. I am surprised how similar it sounds to v80. I in fact put ed16 on right and v80 on left side of my bt3 cable and played at the same time. Ed16 almost sounded as good as v80, at least when using bt3 cable.

Build quality and stock cable? V80 hands down.

Fyi I used stock tips.


----------



## chi-fi mel

A pleasant surprise today when a friend sent me a ZSA. He bought that and the AS10 and raved about the AS10. I guess he didn't need the ZSA so he gifted me. Strangely I have not been able to get good results with them. I've tried every tip on the market and just can't get the sound quality I expect from a KZ product. A long list of better KZ earphones would certainly include the ZS6 and ES3. I've read many favorable reviews of the ZSA, but my results differ, they are hard to drive and light on bass.


----------



## eggnogg

ohh well,,,,


----------



## ricericerice (Oct 11, 2018)

6 Drivers or a downgrade from AS10.
Maybe 3 per side?


----------



## eggnogg

idk, just kz doing kz thing


Spoiler: []


----------



## sino8r (Oct 11, 2018)

My guess is it's 3 BAs per side although they did plan a 8 BAs per side sometime this year. Wonder if it fell through or what?

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-announces-a-16-driver-headphone-news/

I can say that the AS10 and BA10 are their best sounding models to date and their all BAs. Seems like KZ is becoming quite capable with their BA construction. I just wish they tune the treble down slightly and go with a U shape instead of their classic V shaped. They can be fatiguing even with the foam tips. Looking forward to what they have planned for the future. Their TOTL models can almost compete with some of the more medium line iems these days. I know some may say I'm exaggerating a bit but I'm been playing around with some models that run for a couple hundred dollars and the BA10s & AS10s can definitely hold their own mostly in comparison. The only thing the KZs are lacking is a bit in tuning and sometimes the seal of the iem. Otherwise, they are quite amazing! Really can't wait to see what they come up with next!


----------



## DocHoliday

SiggyFraud said:


> There you go. I recently bought one of these. It sure makes my black ZS6 look good.
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/0jHd0qV



I tried the link several times but it only brings me to the AliExpress home page, no black cables. 

Thanks for the effort and my apologies for the delayed response.


----------



## chickenmoon

eggnogg said:


> ohh well,,,,



Looks seem borrowed from 64 Audio this time...


----------



## Zerohour88

chickenmoon said:


> Looks seem borrowed from 64 Audio this time...



funny since the pic looks exactly like the AS10


----------



## SiggyFraud

eggnogg said:


> ohh well,,,,


I just realized they got the spelling wrong - aDmature? Talk about KZ QC...


----------



## maxxevv

DocHoliday said:


> I tried the link several times but it only brings me to the AliExpress home page, no black cables.
> 
> Thanks for the effort and my apologies for the delayed response.



I think you may fancy these though: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.360.11ad3c00dwG5fk

8-Core ones:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.300.11ad3c00dwG5fk


----------



## Tunaa

ricericerice said:


> 6 Drivers or a downgrade from AS10.
> Maybe 3 per side?


I assumed they will be 3 BAs drivers per side. Total 6. But who knows this is KZ afterall


----------



## antdroid

They release more headphones a month than most companies in a year. Are they going to oversaturate the lineup at some point? Or maybe they are cheap enough that people don’t care and will buy them regardless?

While I think the AS10 is the best KZ and is overall a pleasant choice, I find other IEMs in the same price or lower overall better — like the V80. I know its against KZ’s current profiles but I still am hoping they release a good u-shape one as well. The AS10 is pretty good but something even less recessed would be very nice potentially.


----------



## chickenmoon

Zerohour88 said:


> funny since the pic looks exactly like the AS10


The AS10 too then.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

SiggyFraud said:


> I just realized they got the spelling wrong - aDmature? Talk about KZ QC...


Those are probably not real images, might be a 3d render. Still kz needs to get their crap together lol. Wish its a triple driver KZ which uses all of their 3 BAs, with proper tubing, dampening and a nice tuning. Would be a nice successor to the ZSR


----------



## wind016

DocHoliday said:


> So, good news and great news.
> 
> Good news:
> 
> ...




Nice write up. The ZSR is one of my favorite KZs. Very easy to listen to yet detailed, but i suspect it is due to a drop in the 4k treble.  The BA10 FR graph with the 5k bump looks painful. Honestly, I think crinacle's graphs are more accurate to what I hear than that site.


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 11, 2018)

wind016 said:


> Nice write up. The ZSR is one of my favorite KZs. Very easy to listen to yet detailed, but i suspect it is due to a drop in the 4k treble.  The BA10 FR graph with the 5k bump looks painful. Honestly, I think crinacle's graphs are more accurate to what I hear than that site.



You are absolutely correct about the 4khz drop that makes the sound signature more palatable on the ZSR (and apparently the ED16). No big surprise that those two are among KZ's best sounding IEMs. The 5khz region is precisely where things can be strident on occasion for both the BA10 and the ZS3, though again, it only occurs on occasion. 



 


I should mention that I typically listen at moderate levels, rarely exceeding 30-40% of volume on all DAPs. On my "day out" with the ZSR, a few days ago, I had my ZuneHD at only 30% volume and I could hear everything with absolute clarity and plenty of grunt. 

Great IEM!






I've narrowed down the BA10's strengths and weaknesses and should have a full review up in the next few days.


----------



## Makahl (Oct 11, 2018)

KZ has released ZSN on their official AE page:



>


----------



## loomisjohnson

DocHoliday said:


> You are absolutely correct about the 4khz drop that makes the sound signature more palatable on the ZSR (and apparently the ED16). No big surprise that those two are among KZ's best sounding IEMs. The 5khz region is precisely where things can be strident on occasion for both the BA10 and the ZS3, though again, it only occurs on occasion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


agree 100%--the zsr and ed16 are the best tuned kzs to my ears. otoh i cannot get rid of the stridency in zs4, which otherwise have many virtues


----------



## lndi

I just received my KZ BA10. This is my first chinese IEM. My only possible comparison is with old Sennheiser HD595, two Yamaha HS5 monitors and cheap ten euros in ear. First impressions just opening the package, these things are beautiful and well manufactured, and smaller than expected. You have the feeling of a premium device. 

I am no expert so I will explain with my words. I think I have sensitive hearing though. When I put them in my ear,  I can feel the frequency of mid bass very good, and airy treble, like wind. These are the two main powerful sounds in my ear. Sound is quite different to what I am used to. First thing I notice is what you call soundstage is very nice, and I can feel audio and instrument separation like never before. I guess this is the Balanced Armature working.

Treble is windy to the point I almost don't like it. Almost. It is very well hidden by the rest of the good features. I didn't know IEMs could sound this powerful, this deep. I love it. I have just discovered I like to try and hear like someone likes to wear different clothes in different times. 

I miss some more mids and other frequencies, I think it is called sub-bass. But I am sure I am going to enjoy this and buy more IEMs. I am wondering if more BAs will give it the features I miss. Or maybe a hybrid will fix this.


----------



## Wallzii

It's time for some new IEMs, so after some extensive reading, I've purchased the ZS6 and am pretty excited for them to get here. My old HDS1 went missing (lost them at university, I'm sure) and I'd rather not lug around my M-100s at school, so IEMs are they way to go. I have generic Comply foam tips and a set of Ostry OS200 tuners on the way with them to hopefully address the treble and sibilance issues, as well as an upgraded KZ silver-coated braided cable because I absolutely hated the rubbery cables on my HDS1.

I was extremely impressed with my HDS1 and am obviously pretty excited for the ZS6, so needless to say, the next 15-30 days of waiting for the ZS6 and its accompanying friends to arrive are going to be long.


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 11, 2018)

Wallzii said:


> It's time for some new IEMs, so after some extensive reading, I've purchased the ZS6 and am pretty excited for them to get here. My old HDS1 went missing (lost them at university, I'm sure) and I'd rather not lug around my M-100s at school, so IEMs are they way to go. I have generic Comply foam tips and a set of Ostry OS200 tuners on the way with them to hopefully address the treble and sibilance issues, as well as an upgraded KZ silver-coated braided cable because I absolutely hated the rubbery cables on my HDS1.
> 
> I was extremely impressed with my HDS1 and am obviously pretty excited for the ZS6, so needless to say, the next 15-30 days of waiting for the ZS6 and its accompanying friends to arrive are going to be long.



The ZS6 is a very different sound signature if compared to the HDS1.

The closest IEM to the HDS1 that KZ offers is the ED9 using the brass filters.



 



Not my graphs:

HDS1


 


ED9 (w/ brass filters)


 


I found it best to pull out the foam inserts from the gold filters and place them in the brass filters. 
Use a toothpick or moisten a q-tip to move them from filter (gold) to filter (brass). 

The foam will give the sound signature more body while generally smoothing out and taming the treble you see at 6.5khz.

No getting around those cables, though.

The "old skool" single dynamic ED9 can still hold it's own.....and it's only $12!


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> KZ has released ZSN on their official AE page:



It will be interesting to see how well the titanium film dynamic plays with the 30095.

Titanium diaphragms are generally quite bright. Hopefully when combined with the sharp/sibilant 30095, it isn’t overkill. We’ll just have to wait and see how the final tuning turns out.

I hope it turns out good, because I like the looks of it (and the price will be affordable as well).


----------



## Wallzii

DocHoliday said:


> The ZS6 is a very different sound signature if compared to the HDS1.
> 
> The closest IEM to the HDS1 that KZ offers is the ED9 using the brass filters.
> 
> ...



Thank you for a very informative post, I'm surprised how close the sound signature of the ED9 is to the HDS1 with the brass filters. Although I definitely enjoyed my HDS1, I'm very open to trying out something that sounds a little different and spending a little extra to do so. I'm looking forward to the better sub-bass and more detailed and accurate midrange of the ZS6 over the HDS1 and am hopeful that the tips I chose will work with my ears and remove the harshness everyone is referring to around 10kHz. Here's to hoping! 

I'm also_ very_ excited to leave behind those rubbery cables. I was willing to look past them with the HDS1 because of how much of an amazing value they were, but the microphonics were definitely annoying.


----------



## ShakyJake (Oct 11, 2018)

Makahl said:


> KZ has released ZSN on their official AE page:





Slater said:


> It will be interesting to see how well the titanium film dynamic plays with the 30095.
> 
> Titanium diaphragms are generally quite bright. Hopefully when combined with the sharp/sibilant 30095, it isn’t overkill. We’ll just have to wait and see how the final tuning turns out.
> 
> I hope it turns out good, because I like the looks of it (and the price will be affordable as well).



On their AE page, they showed the graph below. I hope that it is not very accurate; otherwise, the ZSN is going to sound weird


----------



## Dobrescu George

ShakyJake said:


> On their AE page, they showed the graph below. I hope that it is not very accurate; otherwise, the ZSN is going to sound weird



*It should say *no high resolution
*
Since it doesn't seem to have any  

Also, agreeed, if that graph is any accurate, it will have a really colored and uneven sound.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 12, 2018)

KZ - stop stuffing treble BA inside the nozzle right behind mesh!
Secondly, KZ - You should concentrate on midrange BAs as Your DDs (ZS4 for example) are already quite impressive if implemented well.
Thirdly, KZ - Start fine-tuning Your treble BAs by damping, positioning and tuning (but tuning of BA needs also some refinement yet).

Otherwise... no progress, just pumping money from ppl with mediocre IEMs (in context of h-fi). And instead ppl buying newer models (seems like endless), they should put money to higher price level with other brands.

BTW! Seems that ZSN is using same newer DD with green shell as inside ZS4. That gives hope that ZSN is not so bassy as shown on ZSN graph (which is ridiculous and should be avoided).


----------



## eggnogg

seems like KZ giving some company to copy their design before they even release it on their own, 
or the design is abandoned?


Spoiler: []


----------



## TLDRonin

ugh, the ZSN _looks_ nice but that frequency response _looks_ god awful.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 12, 2018)

eggnogg said:


> seems like KZ giving some company to copy their design before they even release it on their own,
> or the design is abandoned?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: []


I think KZ will eventually release it anyway. Maybe they make more profit from selling large batches to resellers with rebranding (like QKZ for example) and thus different packaging and accessories?

Anyway, that shell design looks nice and should be very comfortable as it has slight "concha" shape and relatively small rounded design (kinda reminds IT01).
Would like to try that shell type and green(teal) faceplates+blue shells would look really good imho (but requires 2 pairs to do).

And I`m really looking foward to 1x large DD (sequel to ANV), one with red circle shell.


----------



## Slater (Oct 12, 2018)

CoiL said:


> KZ - stop stuffing treble BA inside the nozzle right behind mesh!



+1



CoiL said:


> Secondly, KZ - You should concentrate on midrange BAs as Your DDs (ZS4 for example) are already quite impressive if implemented well.



+1 x10!



CoiL said:


> Thirdly, KZ - Start fine-tuning Your treble BAs by damping, positioning and tuning (but tuning of BA needs also some refinement yet).



+1



CoiL said:


> Otherwise... no progress, just pumping money from ppl with mediocre IEMs (in context of h-fi). And instead ppl buying newer models (seems like endless), they should put money to higher price level with other brands.



+1



CoiL said:


> Seems that ZSN is using same newer DD with green shell as inside ZS4.



Same exact DD and same exact 30095 BA as ZS4? Hmmm, I suspect ZSN and ZS4 are going to sound similar.


----------



## randomnin (Oct 12, 2018)

ShakyJake said:


> On their AE page, they showed the graph below. I hope that it is not very accurate; otherwise, the ZSN is going to sound weird


That's actually my favorite signature. Almost pure Harman. It will fix the bass bleed overwhelming majority of KZs have, because the bass emphasis seems to roll off quickly for once (meaning that they have a new DD which looks really good, in accordance with the graph). But the highs seem rolled off extremely quickly and severely, also a problem for a considerable portion of Chi-Fi (TRN V80 does it right, in contrast); anyhow, this graph looks like a particularly unacceptable case.
Nevertheless, if this graph is raw, this is the best sounding signature, in my opinion (excepting what happens after 5kHz).


----------



## Wiljen

ShakyJake said:


> On their AE page, they showed the graph below. I hope that it is not very accurate; otherwise, the ZSN is going to sound weird





Am I the only one that finds this graph as not only wrong but pretty close to impossible?   I have never seen a driver that managed an inverse roll-off and actually increased through the entire sub-bass range.   Combine that with a near linear cut off at 9k and I'm calling BS on this one.  Something very wrong with the test instrumentation and yet another example of why measurements should never be looked at as gospel.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 12, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Am I the only one that finds this graph as not only wrong but pretty close to impossible?   I have never seen a driver that managed an inverse roll-off and actually increased through the entire sub-bass range.   Combine that with a near linear cut off at 9k and I'm calling BS on this one.  Something very wrong with the test instrumentation and yet another example of why measurements should never be looked at as gospel.



I just assumed that someone told the graphic artists to just give them a cool looking pink squiggly line on a black background so it could be included in the advertising   I rarely assume they are real unless someone explains how they came up with it.   But even when they are real I just scroll past.  A graph will never tell me how something will sound to me.  I would rather trust the impressions of someone who seems to have similar taste.


----------



## Francisk

ShakyJake said:


> On their AE page, they showed the graph below. I hope that it is not very accurate; otherwise, the ZSN is going to sound weird


Looks like an uncompensated frequency graph to me.


----------



## randomnin (Oct 12, 2018)

Francisk said:


> Looks like an uncompensated frequency graph to me.


As are most. Audiobudget, ThePhonograph, crinacle, Reference Audio Analyzer etc. InnerFidelity and Rtings compensate, but that's an exception. It's a Harman graph (IE 2017 is the one for IEMs), that's how it's supposed to look, excepting the roll off at 5kHz and completely at 10kHz. Otherwise, it's great.


----------



## xkcd0137

SomeTechNoob said:


> Yup the zs6s are a bit of a mess right now



I see that you have Bose Soundsport and KZ ZSs.. I am getting Bose for $60 on sale.. are they better than KZs.. ZSR or ZS6s?


----------



## Makahl

CoiL said:


> KZ - stop stuffing treble BA inside the nozzle right behind mesh!
> Secondly, KZ - You should concentrate on midrange BAs as Your DDs (ZS4 for example) are already quite impressive if implemented well.
> Thirdly, KZ - Start fine-tuning Your treble BAs by damping, positioning and tuning (but tuning of BA needs also some refinement yet).
> 
> ...



They are different. From their ad pics:
ZS4 = 8mm _"Liquid crystal molecules Polymerized membrane"_
ZSN = 10mm_ "self-developed titanium film dynamic"_

I can't put my finger on something that I didn't hear yet but I agree on most of the topics. Spamming IEMs make them age like cheese instead of wine. Another example is TFZ which looks like a Game of Thrones season with every month a new king and queen.


----------



## tripside

KZ has launched a new lightning cable with Mfi certification . Under <15 usd. I am not expecting wonders at this price, something close to the apple lighning dongle would be great.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> They are different. From their ad pics:
> ZS4 = 8mm _"Liquid crystal molecules Polymerized membrane"_
> 
> Another example is TFZ which looks like a Game of Thrones season with every month a new king and queen.



Liquid crystal? As in LCD? I wonder if that’s a mistake, or if something got lost in the Chinglish trans-ration.

As far as TFZ, I totally agree! A friendly $20 bet says a “TFZ Prince” model is coming by EOY

Haha


----------



## Slater

tripside said:


> KZ has launched a new lightning cable with Mfi certification . Under <15 usd. I am not expecting wonders at this price, something close to the apple lighning dongle would be great.



I’ve been waiting for someone to pick one up and report its results.

I think the fact it doesn’t have an iOS 3-button mic was a serious mistake.

I mean, I always prefer no-mic cables to mic cables. But I imagine the majority of regular consumers that are going to use a KZ on an iPhone would want an iPhone compatible remote. I mean, KZ went through the trouble to develop the cable and license MiFi certification. So not adding an iOS 3-button mic is like buying a new car that doesn’t include any windows. Sure, you can still drive it, but most people that want to drive a car would want windows.


----------



## chickenmoon (Oct 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> Liquid crystal? As in LCD? I wonder if that’s a mistake, or if something got lost in the Chinglish trans-ration.



Sony MDR-EX1000 has liquid crystal polymer drivers (whatever that exactly means) so probably no chinglish here.


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 12, 2018)

tripside said:


> KZ has launched a new lightning cable with Mfi certification . Under <15 usd. I am not expecting wonders at this price, something close to the apple lighning dongle would be great.



I'm more interested in that improved Y-split. 



 



It may not be as handsome as the current block-of-rubber......



 


.....but I bet it won't catch on "absolutely everything"!

People can say what they will about the simplicity of the design but kudo's to KZ for choosing function over form and going back to basics! 


Basics:

I spent nine and a half hours with this cable several days ago and didn't have to think about it, not even ONCE. No adjusting and no annoyances. 



 


The cable fit neatly inside the channel of my silicone earhooks as well. The pretty 8-core and 16-core cables will probably be too thick to stay inside the channel.



 



Besides, that new Y-split will last for years with no issues. 



Thank you KZ for hearing us on this issue!


----------



## antdroid

Wiljen said:


> Am I the only one that finds this graph as not only wrong but pretty close to impossible?   I have never seen a driver that managed an inverse roll-off and actually increased through the entire sub-bass range.   Combine that with a near linear cut off at 9k and I'm calling BS on this one.  Something very wrong with the test instrumentation and yet another example of why measurements should never be looked at as gospel.



Yea this a RAW frequency response graph. it looks normal to me. As was previously mentioned, it does look a little bit like the IEM target curve from Harman that was recently created in 2017.


----------



## Slater

chickenmoon said:


> Sony MDR-EX1000 has liquid crystal polymer drivers (whatever that exactly means) so probably no chinglish here.



Ah, most people may recognize a very common liquid crystal polymer - Kevlar.

Nice!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid-crystal_polymer


----------



## Tunaa

Guys is there any certain specs of AS10? 
Some reviews says 14 ohm 20-40Khz
Some says: 32 ohm 20-22 which one is true? BWT I have never used 32 ohm earbuds before. They were around 15-16. My phone is avarage samsung model you think is that enough to feed 32 Ohm?


----------



## s8grave

Tunaa, they are VERY sensitive, I believe its 14 Ohms. You can easily drive them from ANITHING, but also this sensitivity makes you hear your AMPS working on any source, you will hear this hissing with low volume, silent tracks and in silent ambience of course)


----------



## khighly

CoiL said:


> BTW! Seems that ZSN is using same newer DD with green shell as inside ZS4. That gives hope that ZSN is not so bassy as shown on ZSN graph (which is ridiculous and should be avoided).



Hey calm down, some of us like a full fun sound


----------



## CoiL

I am calm. If previous discussion about harman target and uncompensated FR graph is true, plus chi-fi typical marketing graphs tradition, then conclusion is - we don`t know anything about ZSN before someone hears them in real life. But I do hope ZSN is using same DD as ZS4 as it is very good. But if BA is same like ZS4 or many other KZs (highs are not coherent and harsh/sibilant), then I see no point of that product. Just another bling-bling fashion stuff for different tastes.


----------



## antdroid

CoiL said:


> I am calm. If previous discussion about harman target and uncompensated FR graph is true, plus chi-fi typical marketing graphs tradition, then conclusion is - we don`t know anything about ZSN before someone hears them in real life. But I do hope ZSN is using same DD as ZS4 as it is very good. But if BA is same like ZS4 or many other KZs (highs are not coherent and harsh/sibilant), then I see no point of that product. Just another bling-bling fashion stuff for different tastes.



I totally understand your point as well. I understand making 1 or 2, or maybe even 3 V-shaped IEMs but their product line has about 500 of them. (I'm exaggerating obviously) 

I dont see the point of releasing more products that sound pretty much the same as the one before it. They should try to expand their lineup for different tastes.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I just wish KZ would just start working on some more DD type stuff. Lets get some 2xDD and 3xDD type stuff going on.


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 13, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I just wish KZ would just start working on some more DD type stuff. Lets get some 2xDD and 3xDD type stuff going on.






 

I'm still daydreaming that KZ will see the light and release this as a well-tuned and/or balanced dynamic driver configuration with the new and improved removable cables.

Who knows? If they pulled it off at $25+/- they could do an end run around the current offerings above the $25 price-point.

Coil mentioned how good the ZS4's 8mm DD is. I'd like to see KZ put it to good use.....maybe even couple it with their ED15's micro-DD if they want to go dual DD's. 

It might not be balanced but it would surely be a coherent and entertaining IEM,  which is KZ's thing.




 







Wouldn't that be a great day!


----------



## Slater (Oct 13, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I just wish KZ would just start working on some more DD type stuff. Lets get some 2xDD and 3xDD type stuff going on.



Agreed. Like a push-pull! C'mon KZ - give us a push-pull!

Or a quad dynamic (which would actually be easy). They could just take a 2xdynamic shell like the ZSE, ZS1/ZS2, and install 2 x double dynamic (coaxial) drivers.

I had high hopes for the YINJW P8 triple dynamic driver. It's not that great, at least stock. When EQd it's respectable though.


----------



## HAMS

DD need vent most of time for neutral/flat tuning. Imo single or dual driver of quality BA is better choice to built neutral sound iem. Easier to tune and no sacrifice for isolation too(like tin audio).


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> DD need vent most of time for neutral/flat tuning. Imo single or dual driver of quality BA is better choice to built neutral sound iem. Easier to tune and no sacrifice for isolation too(like tin audio).



KZ has no problem with adding vents to IEMs when necessary - look at the ZSE, ZS6, ZS7, HDS1, HDS3, etc.

They could do it. I think the issue is they don't want to. Right now we are in a hybrid driver war, with Joe Consumer thinking the more drivers you have the better. Dynamics are thought of by Joe Consumer as "old technology" and hybrids as "cutting edge technology". So it's all about hybrids. And the more the better - 3, 4, 5, 6, 18, 32, 650.


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> KZ has no problem with adding vents to IEMs when necessary - look at the ZSE, ZS6, ZS7, HDS1, HDS3, etc.
> 
> They could do it. I think the issue is they don't want to. Right now we are in a hybrid driver war, with Joe Consumer thinking the more drivers you have the better. Dynamics are thought of by Joe Consumer as "old technology" and hybrids as "cutting edge technology". So it's all about hybrids. And the more the better - 3, 4, 5, 6, 18, 32, 650.



dont tell that to 64audio fans.... I want to try one one of these days but that price tag... sigh.


----------



## hiflofi (Oct 13, 2018)

There is no driver war anymore. Chi-fi is late to the party.

And honestly 64A isn't really an offender despite the U18t b/c their Fourte is a flagship or co-flagship and has 4 drivers total.


----------



## Rippersyte

But the KZ did listen to the y cord so they really do listen. I forgot that there are dynamic drivers that i thought BA is same as DD haha kinda regret buy KZ BA10. Been using DD since sony came so I'm a basshead person but when i discovered KZ my life changed haha.
Wishing for a really balance sound someday and budget friendly


----------



## randomnin

Does the paint get chipped off and, eventually, leave the body silver-ish for ZS6 just as it happens to TRN V80?


----------



## zozito

randomnin said:


> Does the paint get chipped off and, eventually, leave the body silver-ish for ZS6 just as it happens to TRN V80?


I have to say "yes"...mine just started at the borders.


----------



## hakuzen

yes, kz uses to listen to masses, reviews and forums. but they do at their own way.
we criticized the fake (supposedly) drivers in zs5 v1, and lack of crossover -> KZ changed the position of the buried BA, and added crossover (even deployed an entire line to show the crossover clearly: ES4, ZS10, AS10, which IMO is weird)
we discussed about the treble peak of ZS6/ZS5 v2 (due to the new position of the BA) -> all KZ models since then have big treble roll-off (which IMO is a pity).
some criticized lack of bass in ZS6/ZS5 v2 -> all KZ models since then have more bumped bass at different levels (which IMO, together with above change, make KZs too dark, less airy).
we criticized the low quality of stock cables -> KZ keeps providing low quality stock cables, but deploy new upgrade cables for KZs.

it's time they listen to our critics about recessed mids, bumped mid-bass, and highs roll-off. i.e., more balanced iems. guess they could do it by tubing the BAs (once they have all BA iems) and using some dampers, dunno. effort in general tuning. i know they will keep mid-bass hump (basshead "fun" audience is big), but hope improvements about recessed mids and highs roll-off.
i feel a bit tired of trying every new KZ model after the success of ZS6. after trying other signatures iems, same segment price (and others), i refuse to get BA10. perhaps would take ZSN because of the appealing look, but after seeing their advertised frequency response, i doubt it.


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> yes, kz uses to listen to masses, reviews and forums. but they do at their own way.
> we criticized the fake (supposedly) drivers in zs5 v1, and lack of crossover -> KZ changed the position of the buried BA, and added crossover (even deployed an entire line to show the crossover clearly: ES4, ZS10, AS10, which IMO is weird)
> we discussed about the treble peak of ZS6/ZS5 v2 (due to the new position of the BA) -> all KZ models since then have big treble roll-off (which IMO is a pity).
> some criticized lack of bass in ZS6/ZS5 v2 -> all KZ models since then have more bumped bass at different levels (which IMO, together with above change, make KZs too dark, less airy).
> ...



All well said.

ZS6 was so good (almost my ideal signature despite having a few flaws) that the only KZ I bought since then was the ZS4. And I only got that because I knew what to expect with the fit.

Not sure what future KZs I may (or may not) get. I just sit back and see what they release, then wait for the reviews to roll in before deciding one way or the other.


----------



## phrancini

randomnin said:


> Does the paint get chipped off and, eventually, leave the body silver-ish for ZS6 just as it happens to TRN V80?



mine are close to be 1yo and they have been beaten up in every possible way (almost used daily, never stored in a pouch/box) and the anodization is a little worn out on the edges but nothing major.


----------



## randomnin

phrancini said:


> mine are close to be 1yo and they have been beaten up in every possible way (almost used daily, never stored in a pouch/box) and the anodization is a little worn out on the edges but nothing major.


That's much better than my TRN V80. After slightly more than a week's daily use they already look a bit worse than the photo you provided. And I can readily scratch more off with my nails without much pressure. Kudos to KZ.


----------



## phrancini

randomnin said:


> That's much better than my TRN V80. After slightly more than a week's daily use they already look a bit worse than the photo you provided. And I can readily scratch more off with my nails without much pressure. Kudos to KZ.



I don't own those TRNs but judging by some photos I found with google, I can say with 100% certainty that they have a paint coat on them, KZs are anodized instead.


----------



## mbwilson111

randomnin said:


> That's much better than my TRN V80. After slightly more than a week's daily use they already look a bit worse than the photo you provided. And I can readily scratch more off with my nails without much pressure. Kudos to KZ.





phrancini said:


> I don't own those TRNs but judging by some photos I found with google, I can say with 100% certainty that they have a paint coat on them, KZs are anodized instead.



What is causing this?  Does the paint just fall off for no reason? Can it happen even if they are always iin a soft case when not in the ears?


----------



## phrancini (Oct 15, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> What is causing this?  Does the paint just fall off for no reason? Can it happen even if they are always iin a soft case when not in the ears?



I can't speak for the TRNs, as I said that I don't own them, but as a general rule of thumb, a bad paint job can be "peeled off" from a surface if it doesn't stick well to it, that's because the paint layer sits on top of the surface. (maybe they used some cheap paint? idk). Anodization on the other hand is different. Aluminium is electrochemically treated and the dye penetrates the metal, therefore the colour cannot chip, but can be ruined on the parts more exposed to wear (eg. sharp edges on the zs6 which are rubbing onto eachother when I place them in my pocket).

It's the same process Apple used for the iphone, up until the X: the colour wouldn't come off unless you scratched the surface

EDIT: spelling


----------



## antdroid

phrancini said:


> I can't speak for the TRNs, as I said that I don't own them, but as a general rule of thumb, a bad paint job can be "peeled off" from a surface if it doesn't stick well to it, that's because the paint layer sits on top of the surface. (maybe they used some cheap paint? idk). Anodization on the other hand is different. Aluminium is electrochemically treated and the dye penetrates the metal, therefore the colour cannot chip, but can be ruined on the parts more exposed to wear (eg. sharp edges on the zs6 which are rubbing onto eachother when I place them in my pocket).
> 
> It's the same process Apple used for the iphone, up until the X: the colour wouldn't come off unless you scratched the surface
> 
> EDIT: spelling



To properly paint aluminum or most metals, the same anodizing process should occur with a good primer coating as well. Sanding works in a pinch but anodizing really helps strip the metal of the oxide layer and puts a fresh clean coat on which if done right will chemically bond to your primer (granted you need to pick the right primer too) and top coat.

If it's peeling off that quick, it's not being properly surface prepped, either by abrasion or chemical processing and ideally both.

I hadn't had issues with my trn v80 though after owning them a month before giving them to my coworker. I can check to see if it's peeled off this week but he hasn't complained yet.


----------



## antdroid

hakuzen said:


> yes, kz uses to listen to masses, reviews and forums. but they do at their own way.
> we criticized the fake (supposedly) drivers in zs5 v1, and lack of crossover -> KZ changed the position of the buried BA, and added crossover (even deployed an entire line to show the crossover clearly: ES4, ZS10, AS10, which IMO is weird)
> we discussed about the treble peak of ZS6/ZS5 v2 (due to the new position of the BA) -> all KZ models since then have big treble roll-off (which IMO is a pity).
> some criticized lack of bass in ZS6/ZS5 v2 -> all KZ models since then have more bumped bass at different levels (which IMO, together with above change, make KZs too dark, less airy).
> ...



Baby steps


----------



## nxnje

Hey boys, i need your opinion.
I actually own a pair of KZ ZS6 which i bought nearly 2 weeks ago.

I'm just wondering if i should return my KZ ZS6 back to amazon to pick up a KZ ED16 in order to get rid of the fatiguing treble.

What do you tip? Could the ED16 be compared with the ZS6 in detail retrieval?
What is your opinion about it?


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> Hey boys, i need your opinion.
> I actually own a pair of KZ ZS6 which i bought nearly 2 weeks ago.
> 
> I'm just wondering if i should return my KZ ZS6 back to amazon to pick up a KZ ED16 in order to get rid of the fatiguing treble.
> ...



I have both but cannot answer your question because you are asking the "boys"


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> I have both but cannot answer your question because you are asking the "boys"


Then, sorry for this.. just habitude.

Boys and girls*


----------



## hakuzen

nxnje said:


> Hey boys, i need your opinion.
> I actually own a pair of KZ ZS6 which i bought nearly 2 weeks ago.
> 
> I'm just wondering if i should return my KZ ZS6 back to amazon to pick up a KZ ED16 in order to get rid of the fatiguing treble.
> ...


no. zs6 is more detailed.
to get rid of the fatiguing treble, you can search for @Slater 's and others' mods in this thread (better try first reversible mods, like micropore tape onto BAs), use foams, and/or try a simple eq (look at taming zs6 treble peaks (vs zs5 v1)).
i've installed knowles dampers (grey ones) onto one of the BAs recently. will measure FR when i can, but seems to be effective as well.
i'd keep zs6, and would try ed16 at 11.11 sales (before they disappear..).


----------



## phrancini

antdroid said:


> To properly paint aluminum or most metals, the same anodizing process should occur with a good primer coating as well. Sanding works in a pinch but anodizing really helps strip the metal of the oxide layer and puts a fresh clean coat on which if done right will chemically bond to your primer (granted you need to pick the right primer too) and top coat.
> 
> If it's peeling off that quick, it's not being properly surface prepped, either by abrasion or chemical processing and ideally both.
> 
> I hadn't had issues with my trn v80 though after owning them a month before giving them to my coworker. I can check to see if it's peeled off this week but he hasn't complained yet.



I didn't know you could prime metals by anodization before painting them. nice to know! but yes, as you said, probably the earphones were primed incorrectly


----------



## Letm

Hi. A question for all the experts in this thread. I have the kz ed16 (zs7) and it is really good. What other kz product would be an interesting upgrade?


----------



## nxnje (Oct 15, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> no. zs6 is more detailed.
> to get rid of the fatiguing treble, you can search for @Slater 's and others' mods in this thread (better try first reversible mods, like micropore tape onto BAs), use foams, and/or try a simple eq (look at taming zs6 treble peaks (vs zs5 v1)).
> i've installed knowles dampers (grey ones) onto one of the BAs recently. will measure FR when i can, but seems to be effective as well.
> i'd keep zs6, and would try ed16 at 11.11 sales (before they disappear..).



I mean, my problem is not that i can't stand the treble, i'm getting on with it and i'm starting to like it. Many tracks now show many things i had never heard and i love this sensation.
Bass is quick, sub-bass is amazing, just there when needed.
Mids are recessed but sound very clear even if they're in an odd position.

Was just wondering how the ed16 compares to the zs6, maybe less detail but more pleasant sound signature and equilibrium.

In any case, how can u know its detail is not comparable if you haven't tried it? xD

That's why i was searching for opinions.


----------



## nxnje

Plus, my zs6 shows now a bit more soft sound on the right earbud.
What can it be?


----------



## hakuzen

nxnje said:


> I mean, my problem is not that i can't stand the treble, i'm getting on with it and i'm starting to like it. Many tracks now show many things i had never heard and i love this sensation.
> Bass is quick, sub-bass is amazing, just there when needed.
> Mids are recessed but sound very clear even if they're in an odd position.
> 
> ...


wonder why do you suppose i haven't tried both iems.. i own 6 ED16s and 7 ZS6s now. do you really think i'd invest on them (to gift/sell) if i had not tried both enough?
have you clicked on the links i shared to you?
enough.. from now on, try to answer your obsessive questions by searching and reading through the threads, lazy boy


----------



## nxnje

hakuzen said:


> wonder why do you suppose i haven't tried both iems.. i own 6 ED16s and 7 ZS6s now. do you really think i'd invest on them (to gift/sell) if i had not tried both enough?
> have you clicked on the links i shared to you?
> enough.. from now on, try to answer your obsessive questions by searching and reading through the threads, lazy boy



Calm down baby, i just misunderstood the part when u wrote "would try ed16 at 11.11 sales (before they disappear..)"
Thought you wanted to try the ed16 and that was misunderstood.
Dunno why you became so rude, people can misunderstand ya know?
Anyway, i'm going to ask someone else if i can't even misunderstand, didn't think people could become so aggressive just for a question.


----------



## jeromeaparis

nxnje said:


> Was just wondering how the ed16 compares to the zs6, maybe less detail but more pleasant sound signature and equilibrium.


Those last days, I did listen to KZ ZS6 and ZS7-ED16 (both with KZ silver plated cable) on my Pioneer XDP-30R dap, also on Xduoo X3 dap (moded)
For me ZS7 has realy more details than ZS6, sound is also more "pure & natural" ZS7 is a good name cause it's a step better than ZS6.
There are more bass and treble on ZS6, more sub bass and mediums on ZS7.
ZSR is like ZS6 with even more bass and sub, less medium, a nice sound.
If you find too much trebles on the ZS6, try the new std ES4 twisted KZ cable (copper color) @2.70$, it is a very good ofc cable and softens the trebles a bit.
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/D-or...l-pour-ZS3-ZS4-ZS5-ZS6-2-pin/32884740781.html


----------



## EDG67

nxnje said:


> Hey boys, i need your opinion.
> I actually own a pair of KZ ZS6 which i bought nearly 2 weeks ago.
> 
> I'm just wondering if i should return my KZ ZS6 back to amazon to pick up a KZ ED16 in order to get rid of the fatiguing treble.
> ...


I have the ED16 and don't find the treble fatiguing at all.Can listen for hours with no problem.Great detail and separation and the bass is amazing.


----------



## hakuzen

nxnje said:


> Calm down baby, i just misunderstood the part when u wrote "would try ed16 at 11.11 sales (before they disappear..)"
> Thought you wanted to try the ed16 and that was misunderstood.
> Dunno why you became so rude, people can misunderstand ya know?
> Anyway, i'm going to ask someone else if i can't even misunderstand, didn't think people could become so aggressive just for a question.


i can understand language barriers (english is not our mother language). "i'd keep zs6, and would try ed16 at 11.11 sales (before they disappear..)." was the entire sentence, and it should be obvious that is a suggestion. anyway, in case of doubt, you can check the user profile.
sorry if i sounded rude, but you keep making questions which have been answered many times. if you have the time to make so many questions, i'm pretty sure you have time to search and read old posts. i only was trying to educate you, forgive the rudeness.


----------



## antdroid

phrancini said:


> I didn't know you could prime metals by anodization before painting them. nice to know! but yes, as you said, probably the earphones were primed incorrectly



I work in aerospace -- so we do a lot of overkill to our parts to make sure they last 30+ years. 

In most cases, you can skip the anodizing and just use a spray-on conversion coating after abrasion (sanding or grit blasting) to get a good chemical surface for bonding. This gives you both a chemical bond + mechanical teeth for the primer to latch on to. It should be very durable if done correctly.

But probably overkill for cheap ear phones.


----------



## nxnje

hakuzen said:


> i can understand language barriers (english is not our mother language). "i'd keep zs6, and would try ed16 at 11.11 sales (before they disappear..)." was the entire sentence, and it should be obvious that is a suggestion. anyway, in case of doubt, you can check the user profile.
> sorry if i sounded rude, but you keep making questions which have been answered many times. if you have the time to make so many questions, i'm pretty sure you have time to search and read old posts. i only was trying to educate you, forgive the rudeness.



Got it, anyway i've read back some comparisons but found so many posts without useful info, as the systems picks up the posts with every word and then you cannot know if there are comparisons or not.

Sorry then for the misunderstanding, peace!


----------



## pbui44

antdroid said:


> I work in aerospace -- so we do a lot of overkill to our parts to make sure they last 30+ years.
> 
> In most cases, you can skip the anodizing and just use a spray-on conversion coating after abrasion (sanding or grit blasting) to get a good chemical surface for bonding. This gives you both a chemical bond + mechanical teeth for the primer to latch on to. It should be very durable if done correctly.
> 
> But probably overkill for cheap ear phones.



I would never entrust my KZs to fly me anywhere, just for listening to music.


----------



## Cinder

My AS10 review is complete!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-as10.23246/reviews#review-21026


----------



## pbui44

Hey, I was right: it is purple!  The KZ ZSN comes in three colors: black, turquoise, and purple:

https://m.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009762900470.html?wid=1433363


----------



## sino8r (Oct 15, 2018)

I got bored after work today and started playing with my old green ZS6s and decided to try Slaters mod. It sounded better but I went a bit further with it for even more treble killing without losing clarity. I blocked one of the BAs as recommended but used craft putty (aka poster tack) to completely seal on BA. Then I added a slight amount (almost nonexistent) to the other BA. If you over do it, it will muffle the second BA completely. You can remove it easily while still working with the eye end of a sowing needle so don't worry if you add to much to the second BA. Also, I pushed back the BAs further into the housing a couple of mm. Finally, I packed the nozzle end lightly with cotton. It now sounds really good like the highs of the AS10 or BA10 maybe even a bit less strong but not as weak as the ZS10. Something to try if get an hour or so of free time.


----------



## khighly (Oct 15, 2018)

AS10's are unbelievable for EDM. Synths of all sorts are a dream, bass is punchy, mid bass is full, male & female vocals are awesome, soundstage is huge. It's like they added a missing piece of the puzzle. I really think these are the best IEM's KZ has put out from the list in my signature. They're definitely low & mid low weighted but so worth it. I haven't found any genre's I don't like in the AS10.

With the isolation, seal, & comfort of these they're definitely a winner.


----------



## Mindstorms

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the followup Coil. I just can't help but wonder if the ZST drivers in the ZS3 housing would sound and feel incredible. Even the ES3's with that 10mm DD and BA combo might bring a welcome upgrade to the table for the ZS3.
> 
> Any ideas on what I could use for metal nozzles wide enough to accommodate the BA being in the nozzle?


This is really interesting indeed.... please keep us posted on this.


----------



## Mindstorms

khighly said:


> AS10's are unbelievable for EDM. Synths of all sorts are a dream, bass is punchy, mid bass is full, male & female vocals are awesome, soundstage is huge. It's like they added a missing piece of the puzzle. I really think these are the best IEM's KZ has put out from the list in my signature. They're definitely low & mid low weighted but so worth it. I haven't found any genre's I don't like in the AS10.
> 
> With the isolation, seal, & comfort of these they're definitely a winner.


has kz advanced much since ZST? I have ZS5 ZS3 ES3 ED9 also have tried many chinese iems from other brands being revonext QT2 one of my new favorites that outplaced most kz... can you tell me a little bit more about AS10? i love bass and great soundstage find ZST perfect as you stated firts than everyone... thanks in advance


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 15, 2018)

Midnstorms said:


> ... can you tell me a little bit more about AS10? i love bass and great soundstage find ZST perfect as you stated firts than everyone... thanks in advance




https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-as10.23246/




Spoiler















khighly said:


> AS10's are unbelievable for EDM. Synths of all sorts are a dream, bass is punchy, mid bass is full, male & female vocals are awesome, soundstage is huge. It's like they added a missing piece of the puzzle. I really think these are the best IEM's KZ has put out from the list in my signature. They're definitely low & mid low weighted but so worth it. I haven't found any genre's I don't like in the AS10.
> 
> With the isolation, seal, & comfort of these they're definitely a winner.



Your description "almost" reads like the BA10 sound signature.


----------



## SiggyFraud

They look better than I expected.
KZ ZSN:


----------



## phrancini (Oct 16, 2018)

SiggyFraud said:


> They look better than I expected.
> KZ ZSN:



They don't look bad at all. I'm going to grab a pair right now


----------



## SiggyFraud

phrancini said:


> They don't look bad at all. I'm going to grab a pair right now


I ordered the silver/purple pair from Gearbest. Seems like they have the best deal right now - USD 13,25 with cheapest registered shipping method and some GB points.


----------



## TLDRonin

phrancini said:


> They don't look bad at all. I'm going to grab a pair right now


I read your comment and was going to say it isn't smart to order based on looks. After actually seeing them I'm kind of tempted to order as well


----------



## phrancini

TLDRonin said:


> I read your comment and was going to say it isn't smart to order based on looks. After actually seeing them I'm kind of tempted to order as well




they are fairly new and I can't seem to find many reviews. Somebody has to take one for the team!


----------



## phrancini

SiggyFraud said:


> I ordered the silver/purple pair from Gearbest. Seems like they have the best deal right now - USD 13,25 with cheapest registered shipping method and some GB points.



I can't find them on gearbest. I found them on AE for 17USD though


----------



## SiggyFraud

phrancini said:


> I can't find them on gearbest. I found them on AE for 17USD though


Found them just now via Gearbest app at USD 15,40.
https://gearbest.app.link/7woag0vG3Q


----------



## phrancini (Oct 16, 2018)

SiggyFraud said:


> Found them just now via Gearbest app at USD 15,40.
> https://gearbest.app.link/7woag0vG3Q



it must be something country related. the link you provided is not working here in italy. it just says "suspended"

NVM, I'll go with AE 









EDIT: I ended up buying it on GB using a VPN


----------



## zerouse7en

Is there anyone here who owns both ED16 and Tin Audio T2? I would like to see some compare between these two iems. I have a pair of ZSR now, its shape is big for my ears, although it sounds good but I want bass to get tamed a bit.


----------



## loomisjohnson

zerouse7en said:


> Is there anyone here who owns both ED16 and Tin Audio T2? I would like to see some compare between these two iems. I have a pair of ZSR now, its shape is big for my ears, although it sounds good but I want bass to get tamed a bit.


t2 and ed16 are completely different animals--t2 is bright/balanced and  audiophile-accurate; ed16 is tuned quite close to the zsr, albeit with a  better-controlled low end and a little less extension.


----------



## zerouse7en

loomisjohnson said:


> t2 and ed16 are completely different animals--t2 is bright/balanced and  audiophile-accurate; ed16 is tuned quite close to the zsr, albeit with a  better-controlled low end and a little less extension.



Since I have had a pair of DT1990 Pro for awhile, T2 seems to be a better choice for me  how about another option from KZ that's similar to T2?


----------



## loomisjohnson

zerouse7en said:


> Since I have had a pair of DT1990 Pro for awhile, T2 seems to be a better choice for me  how about another option from KZ that's similar to T2?


my understanding is that the zs10 and as10 are more balanced, but i don't own 'em and  gotta defer to others on that


----------



## ThanosD (Oct 16, 2018)

Guys, does anybody have an opinion on how the ZS3 compare to the ZSR? I am looking for a bass-head level iem. I currently own the ZS3, and I am wondering if there is something with more bass, or something with better sounding mids and highs, but the same bass as ZS3 in the KZ linup


----------



## Makahl

ThanosD said:


> Guys, does anybody have an opinion on how the ZS3 compare to the ZSR? I am looking for a bass-head level iem. I currently own the ZS3, and I am wondering if there is something with more bass, or something with better sounding mids and highs, but the same bass as ZS3 in the KZ linup



I can't answer for the ZSR but people with ZS4 are quite confident this is an upgrade from ZS3 in all areas. I think only coil wasn't satisfied with treble at all and its extension for hi-hat and cymbals but if you're into bass-head music it shouldn't be a problem (and if you're sensitive to a possible sibilance you can fix it with foams tips or adding 1 micropore layer over the nozzle before mounting the tip).

Nonetheless, for $12ish, it's hard to complain.


----------



## ThanosD

Makahl said:


> I can't answer for the ZSR but people with ZS4 are quite confident this is an upgrade from ZS3 in all areas. I think only coil wasn't satisfied with treble at all and its extension for hi-hat and cymbals but if you're into bass-head music it shouldn't be a problem (and if you're sensitive to a possible sibilance you can fix it with foams tips or adding 1 micropore layer over the nozzle before mounting the tip).
> 
> Nonetheless, for $12ish, it's hard to complain.


Yeah, that seems to be what I am looking for as far as sound goes. I am just not very satisfied with the design, it wasn't very comfortable for me. Thanks for the suggestion though, I might give them a try anyways.


----------



## toddy0191 (Oct 16, 2018)

zerouse7en said:


> Since I have had a pair of DT1990 Pro for awhile, T2 seems to be a better choice for me  how about another option from KZ that's similar to T2?





loomisjohnson said:


> my understanding is that the zs10 and as10 are more balanced, but i don't own 'em and  gotta defer to others on that



The AS10 are more bass heavy than the T2 and have more rolled off highs. They are probably KZs most balanced effort that I own though. I listen to them a lot more than the T2 s and are my current favourites, along with the hifi walker a7 and ety hf3.

The ZS10 are described by many as v shaped, but I think they are also quite balanced with foam tips, although again their highs are more rolled off than the T2 s. They're my second favourite KZ.


----------



## Adide

loomisjohnson said:


> my understanding is that the zs10 and as10 are more balanced, but i don't own 'em and  gotta defer to others on that



Imo ED16 is much better tuned than ZS10 (still lacking sub-bass for my taste though, easy fixable via mod) while ZS10 easy tops it technically.

I can't listen to my ZS10 without heavy EQ, then it becomes very good.

But I also can't listen to ED16 on commute as it has far worse isolation so it sits in the drawer waiting for second chances.

Overall ED16 lost in my case while ZS10 is used almost daily but I still wouldn't recommend it as it needs heavy EQ to shine.

Take ED16 if isolation is not important.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Oct 16, 2018)

ThanosD said:


> Guys, does anybody have an opinion on how the ZS3 compare to the ZSR? I am looking for a bass-head level iem. I currently own the ZS3, and I am wondering if there is something with more bass, or something with better sounding mids and highs, but the same bass as ZS3 in the KZ linup



Yes,, ZSR does it !
I have both and never listen to the ZS3 again.
My opinion is that ZSR has much  better bass & sub, when they come, they kick stronger and deeper
ZSR has good trebles (ZS3 has no real treble), voices are fine, slightly recessed.
ZS3 is more confortable cause ZSR's nozle is large.


----------



## ThanosD

jeromeaparis said:


> Yes,, ZSR does it !
> I have both and never listen to the ZS3 again.
> My opinion is that ZSR has much  better bass & sub, when they come, they kick stronger and deeper
> ZSR has good trebles (ZS3 has no real treble), voices are fine, slightly recessed.
> ZS3 is more confortable cause ZSR's nozle is large.



Hmm, good to know that. With ZS3 my problem was the shape, and I don't have particularly small ear canals, so the bigger nozzles might not be a problem at all. Thanks for the useful info.


----------



## C2thew

ok so my coworker purchased the uiisii cm5 headphones from amazon and I got a chance to compare them to my zs3's.  (finally right?)  So they do a decent job of sealing out the outside environment and they are definitely comfortable to wear for extended periods of time.  They do not have the amazing pressure seal that the ZS3's / ZS4's are known for.  One thing I like about the CM5's is that they have a rubber coating on the inside of the IEM where the shell makes contact with your ear area which is much more pleasant than the plastic feel of the KZ headphones.

On to the audio: The CM5's seem more neutral compared to the V shaped sound signature of the ZS3's.  They do not give the impression of "hey let's bring these with me on a run so I can really feel the bass" compared to the ZS3's.  The ZS4's are much more forward in the treble and the bass.

Isolation ZS3 wins
Sound: slightly more expansive then the ZS3
Comfort: Has a neutral fit rather than the sealed pressure compared to the ZS3/ZS4.  (KZ wins)
Cost: It does cost $16 on amazon compared to the $10 on aliexpress for the ZS3 and $16 to the ZS4 so.... I'd still take the ZS4's. (they are honestly my favorite IEM's for chifi)
Aesthetics: looks like a clamshell with glitter on it.  no seriously.
Fit: it is comfortable with it's design but it doesn't have the ergonomic sealing power of the ZS3's or ZS4's.

Compared to the ZS10's (no contest -- different class)

They do produce slightly warmer bass compared to the ZS10's however the ZS10's are much more clearer in microdetail for the treble.  I honestly feel that the rubber liner of the CM5's should have been used on the ZS10's, AS10's, to aid with the comfort and isolation of the bass for KZ's headphones.  It's interesting that this little thing could make such a difference in comfort.

TLR: Would still pick the ZS4's or ZS3's over the CM5's but do like the rubber inside lining of the CM5.s


----------



## Slater

Try replacing the nozzle screen on the CM5. You’ll notice an improvement.


----------



## blur.png (Oct 16, 2018)

i wonder which earphone is worth the jump from the ES4 & ZS6, es4 bass is good & fun to listen though it gets overwhelmed on some tracks while the zs6 treble is stupid without an impedance adapter (8 ohm)
on my local store the AS10 is 39 usd while the T2 Pro is around 55 & the BA10 is about 53 and the trn V80 around 25.6
any suggestion to which should i pick ? or im just wasting money by this point (lol)


----------



## khighly

jeromeaparis said:


> Yes,, ZSR does it !
> I have both and never listen to the ZS3 again.
> My opinion is that ZSR has much  better bass & sub, when they come, they kick stronger and deeper
> ZSR has good trebles (ZS3 has no real treble), voices are fine, slightly recessed.
> ZS3 is more confortable cause ZSR's nozle is large.


ZSR is in no way a quoted 'bass head level' IEM. I haven't heard the ZS3's or ZS4's, but the AS10 would be a much better fit for the bass head level IEM than the ZSR. ZSR has more high extension but the AS10 is plenty detailed with a much more competent low end.


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> Try replacing the nozzle screen on the CM5. You’ll notice an improvement.


Is the screen needed? I don't have any spares lying around, although I probably should.


----------



## HAMS

Does AS10 has faster bass than ZS10, Because it's all BA?


----------



## nofacemonster

PS : Before you proceed please note that i am not a audiophile, just an enthusiast of music and electronics. I don't have equipment nor the knowledge to review these hardware. But i do when something sounds good, it sounds good. So here i am to share my experience.

I have been using KZ ZS5 for more than a year now and i simply love it. I am planing on upgrading its stock cable soon because i think it is a keeper. I just want to share something with the community so i thought of writing this to the KZ ZS5 thread. You probably may have heard of this and tried it but i am sure there are plenty of people out there who has no idea what i am about to write below.

I've been using KZ ZS5 with various mobile phones and notebooks for the past year and honestly all my xiaomi phones were not good enough to make it sound its best. Currently i am using a xiaomi redmi 5 AI and it is very bad when it comes down to sound quality with KZ ZS5. Anemic bass and can't drive them properly. I was looking for a cheap amplifier to carry along with me when i take long trips and i came across this wonderful, little thing called

"Venture Electronics Odyssey"

First i mistakenly thought it was some kind of dongle / cable by them on their website. Later i figured out it is actually a USB DAC/AMP combo like dragonfly and it is only 10$. i was thinking WTH can i buy for 10$? not even a part of an amplifier. So i ordered one out of curiosity to use with my VE Monk plus because it was clearly said that it will not sound good with headphones that is based on BA drivers.

Few days back i received it and guess what....?

It turned my KZ ZS5 in to a whole new level of music nirvana. Everything came so alive, wide sound stage, superb bass, and it sounds out of this world. So i just want to say if you are just like me who is looking for a solution to power the KZ ZS5 or you feel like it is not doing its job. Do yourself a favor, get a "VE ODYSSEY". Try it on ZS5 and see what i am talking about. It sounds better with KZ ZS5 than anything i have ever heard before.

Cheers!!


----------



## maxxevv

Your Xiaomi phones must have been really very poor to begin with. According to measurements, the VE dongle measures very poorly even when compared to the Pixel one. 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...attle-of-google-pixel-headphone-dongles.4863/


----------



## TLDRonin

maxxevv said:


> Your Xiaomi phones must have been really very poor to begin with. According to measurements, the VE dongle measures very poorly even when compared to the Pixel one.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...attle-of-google-pixel-headphone-dongles.4863/


Armin from audiosciencereview is such an underrated guy in the audio community, IMO. 


Funny how apple sells a much better dongle for even less than venture electronics....


----------



## nxnje

I feel like my right ZS6 sounds very little softer than my left one.
Did anyone experience this problem before?
How can i check if that is a headphone problem?


----------



## nofacemonster

Should i upgrade the Stock KZ ZS5 cable? If so which one should i buy? will it make a huge difference in sound quality etc...?


----------



## TLDRonin

nxnje said:


> I feel like my right ZS6 sounds very little softer than my left one.
> Did anyone experience this problem before?
> How can i check if that is a headphone problem?


Use a program to switch the channels. If it still sounds quiet from your left ear there is either there is channel imbalance, or your left ear is a little worse than your right


----------



## phrancini

TLDRonin said:


> Use a program to switch the channels. If it still sounds quiet from your left ear there is either there is channel imbalance, or your left ear is a little worse than your right



Otherwise he could try to swap the left and right cables, then he would know if the cable is the culprit.


----------



## nxnje

I hope it's not my ear then. I even feel a little thing: my zs6 go deep into my right ear canal while it stays a little bit back compared to the right when in my left channel.


TLDRonin said:


> Use a program to switch the channels. If it still sounds quiet from your left ear there is either there is channel imbalance, or your left ear is a little worse than your right


----------



## viva_360

Hi would like ask for some help, if anyone knows the KZ 2 pin config layout? I am trying to repair my silver upgrade cable as the 3.5mm plug got bend and needs a replacement. 

Does KZ follow the UE layout? but i read KZ seems to have their own also? Like: 

 L       R
G+    +G







Much appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## phrancini

viva_360 said:


> Hi would like ask for some help, if anyone knows the KZ 2 pin config layout? I am trying to repair my silver upgrade cable as the 3.5mm plug got bend and needs a replacement.
> 
> Does KZ follow the UE layout? but i read KZ seems to have their own also? Like:
> 
> ...



When I'll get back from work I can test it out with a multimeter. It'll be 10 hrs from now, be sure to send me a message if you dont hear back from me, I might forget


----------



## viva_360

phrancini said:


> When I'll get back from work I can test it out with a multimeter. It'll be 10 hrs from now, be sure to send me a message if you dont hear back from me, I might forget


Much Thanks!


----------



## khighly

nofacemonster said:


> Should i upgrade the Stock KZ ZS5 cable? If so which one should i buy? will it make a huge difference in sound quality etc...?



You can choose any cable you want, it won't make a difference in sound quality whatsoever, but you'll get the added texture, feel, & ruggedness, possibly slightly better isolation.

TRN has some new, nice looking KZ compatible cables someone posted a few pages back.


----------



## khighly

HAMS said:


> Does AS10 has faster bass than ZS10, Because it's all BA?



I don't know what 'fast' means, but the AS10 has a much more detailed low end and can extend further in each direction. ZS10 is definitely not my favorite low end from KZ. AS10 is quite a few dB louder in sub bass and mid bass as well.


----------



## Mellowship

nofacemonster said:


> PS : Before you proceed please note that i am not a audiophile, just an enthusiast of music and electronics. I don't have equipment nor the knowledge to review these hardware. But i do when something sounds good, it sounds good. So here i am to share my experience.
> 
> I have been using KZ ZS5 for more than a year now and i simply love it. I am planing on upgrading its stock cable soon because i think it is a keeper. I just want to share something with the community so i thought of writing this to the KZ ZS5 thread. You probably may have heard of this and tried it but i am sure there are plenty of people out there who has no idea what i am about to write below.
> 
> ...


Same thing here, with the ZS5 but with a different USB-C DAC-dongle, the Hidizs Sonata. The ZS5 are very hard to drive, and impossible to use with my smartphone. These USB-C DACs are really an optimal solution for small size, small price and great sonic performance. The worst is that they tend to have larger volume control steps making it difficult to lock on a perfect volume level for listening.


----------



## Mellowship

khighly said:


> I don't know what 'fast' means, but the AS10 has a much more detailed low end and can extend further in each direction. ZS10 is definitely not my favorite low end from KZ. AS10 is quite a few dB louder in sub bass and mid bass as well.


Can't wait to receive my AS10 on the mail... maybe this week...


----------



## Mellowship

nofacemonster said:


> Should i upgrade the Stock KZ ZS5 cable? If so which one should i buy? will it make a huge difference in sound quality etc...?


I really don't like the cable that came with the ZS5/ZS3 (and I have 4 of them), mainly because they are rubbery and tangly.
This is a great and cheap option:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...re-for-ZS3-ZS4-ZS5-ZS6-2-pin-0-75mm-earphone/

For the ZS3/ZS5 is the A style cable. The B-style is for ZST etc...


----------



## phrancini

Mellowship said:


> Can't wait to receive my AS10 on the mail... maybe this week...



I bought mine two days ago. The wait is killing me


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> Is the screen needed? I don't have any spares lying around, although I probably should.



No, you can run with no screen at all.

Just remove the ear tip and check the nozzle every week or 2 for gunk, cleaning it out accordingly.


----------



## Slater

viva_360 said:


> Hi would like ask for some help, if anyone knows the KZ 2 pin config layout? I am trying to repair my silver upgrade cable as the 3.5mm plug got bend and needs a replacement.
> 
> Does KZ follow the UE layout? but i read KZ seems to have their own also? Like:
> 
> ...



Got a link to those replacement plugs? They look pretty nice.


----------



## HungryPanda

KZ BA10's in the house, in fact in my ears right now. With stock tips (Starlines) these sound really good. A real KZ winner in my estimation


----------



## parthabhatta

I accidentally / out of curiosity modded my ZS3 to get rid of the foam pieces inside the earbud and later found that it is already documented and known as "Slater" mod. Thanks to @Slater for this value addition. They sound more open and neutral now and I love the sound signature. But the problem of driver flex has cropped up in both the buds. It was not there before the mod. Anyways, the driver flex happens only when I push the buds in or out of the ear canal. Once in the ear, the device works without further flex and pops. I have read in this thread as also somewhere else that driver flex may happen due to pressure difference and more so with KZ drivers. I just wanted to ask if there is any mod for its remedy.
Regards


----------



## Makahl (Oct 17, 2018)

parthabhatta said:


> I accidentally / out of curiosity modded my ZS3 to get rid of the foam pieces inside the earbud and later found that it is already documented and known as "Slater" mod. Thanks to @Slater for this value addition. They sound more open and neutral now and I love the sound signature. But the problem of driver flex has cropped up in both the buds. It was not there before the mod. Anyways, the driver flex happens only when I push the buds in or out of the ear canal. Once in the ear, the device works without further flex and pops. I have read in this thread as also somewhere else that driver flex may happen due to pressure difference and more so with KZ drivers. I just wanted to ask if there is any mod for its remedy.
> Regards



Well, you can try to check if this vent is clogged up and gently clean it with a needle.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead (Oct 17, 2018)

Guys my year old non-stock KZ cables which I got a year back (for $6 during a sale) with my KZ ZS6 just got ripped from the left side all of a sudden today, and so I'm in need of new ones. Any special recommendations?

BTW upon using the ones which came stock with KZ ZS6, I noticed a great deal of quality loss across the board with increased sibilance as well while A/B'ing. Now I get why some people can't bear the highs on these. Maybe it's the cables. Most people wouldn't bother changing them and then make a bad judgement of them. Can't say about others but it's 100% true for me. Never experienced the so-called piercing treble on ZS6 since I've the non-stock ones on from day 1. I too am a part of the better cables= better sound club now. Quite a revelation!


----------



## parthabhatta

Makahl said:


> Well, you can try to check if this vent is clogged up and gently clean up with a needle.


Never imagined / saw this hole. Thanks. Will try this.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Oct 17, 2018)

blur.png said:


> es4 bass is good & fun to listen though it gets overwhelmed on some tracks while the zs6 treble is stupid without an impedance adapter (8 ohm)................or im just wasting money by this point (lol)


With stock cable, ES4 has realy too much bass.
The problem is totaly solved with
#  "whirl" tips with large bore, try small & medium size
#  or change cable for the same KZ twisted cable but the silver plated one, it has the "iron grey" color. then use the std starline tips.
this cable option gives better result, cause all the character of the sound is inproved: more puch, more trebles, less bass,
and the voices keep their natural. Cost between 5 and 10$ on Aliexpress

And did you try the stock ES4 cable on your ZS6 ?


----------



## CoiL (Oct 17, 2018)

nofacemonster said:


> PS : Before you proceed please note that i am not a audiophile, just an enthusiast of music and electronics. I don't have equipment nor the knowledge to review these hardware. But i do when something sounds good, it sounds good. So here i am to share my experience.
> 
> I have been using KZ ZS5 for more than a year now and i simply love it. I am planing on upgrading its stock cable soon because i think it is a keeper. I just want to share something with the community so i thought of writing this to the KZ ZS5 thread. You probably may have heard of this and tried it but i am sure there are plenty of people out there who has no idea what i am about to write below.
> 
> ...





Mellowship said:


> Same thing here, with the ZS5 but with a different USB-C DAC-dongle, the Hidizs Sonata. The ZS5 are very hard to drive, and impossible to use with my smartphone. These USB-C DACs are really an optimal solution for small size, small price and great sonic performance. The worst is that they tend to have larger volume control steps making it difficult to lock on a perfect volume level for listening.



ZS5v1 is a GEM if used with neutral-warm DAC and amped properly with low output impedance. I still have it and occasionally listen instead modded IT01 - amazing live experience 
I wish more ZS5v1 owners could inject around 3V/80mA per channel into them!


----------



## phrancini

viva_360 said:


> Hi would like ask for some help, if anyone knows the KZ 2 pin config layout? I am trying to repair my silver upgrade cable as the 3.5mm plug got bend and needs a replacement.
> 
> Does KZ follow the UE layout? but i read KZ seems to have their own also? Like:
> 
> ...




as promised here I am.

I made you a simple diagram. use the little "dome" in the plug as reference point! let me know if you need more help


----------



## Slater

parthabhatta said:


> I accidentally / out of curiosity modded my ZS3 to get rid of the foam pieces inside the earbud and later found that it is already documented and known as "Slater" mod. Thanks to @Slater for this value addition. They sound more open and neutral now and I love the sound signature. But the problem of driver flex has cropped up in both the buds. It was not there before the mod. Anyways, the driver flex happens only when I push the buds in or out of the ear canal. Once in the ear, the device works without further flex and pops. I have read in this thread as also somewhere else that driver flex may happen due to pressure difference and more so with KZ drivers. I just wanted to ask if there is any mod for its remedy.
> Regards



The driver flex is common in the ZS3, due to its very sealed design. This is the main reason it has such good isolation, but at the expense of driver flex.

In addition to the clogged hole mentioned in the post below yours, there are 3 additional solutions. Some may work better or worse for you.

I recommend starting with #2, as anyone can try that. Then try #1, as all it requires is a set of foam tips. Finally, if #1 and #2 don’t work, try #3 but only if you have the proper tools and skills.

1. Use foam tips. When you smoosh the foam smaller before inserting it into your ears, the air will equalize as the foam expands in your ears. You will not get any driver flex this way. Unfortunately, the down side to this is that foam tips usually increase bass and dampen the treble, which is the exact opposite to what the ZS3 needs (in my opinion). However, it is still worth trying.

2. Hold your mouth open as wide as possible when inserting the ZS3 into your ears. Then, when they are both inserted properly, close your mouth. Opening your mouth chanesbthe shape of your ear canal slightly, often just enough to allow the air pressure to escape and equalize upon insertion. Many people report this trick working for them. You can use this mouth open trick with any tips; silicone or foam tips as suggested in #1 above.

3. Make a very small hole into the side of the nozzle, where it is not covered up by the eartip. The hole should be sized between 0.3mm and 0.4mm. If you make the hole too large it will kill the sound totally. If you make it too small it won’t be effective. If you do it wrong, you risk damaging the driver. You also have to make sure to do it so no dust or shavings falls down into the nozzle. This can be very tricky to do properly, and it should be done with the proper tools (micro drill bits) and with the proper experience. Luckily, if you make the hole too large, the “mistake” can be covered with micro pore tape to effectively reduce the size of the hole. It can also be covered up completely with a solid tape to totally reverse the procedure altogether.

Note that #3 will cause a decrease in isolation, as it is allowing some of the air to leak outside. But this is the trade off required to alleviate the driver flex.


----------



## blur.png

jeromeaparis said:


> With stock cable, ES4 has realy too much bass.
> ...........
> 
> And did you try the stock ES4 cable on your ZS6 ?


the ES4 cable is angled while ZS6 is straight, now that you mentioned it, its possible, but it wont be secured properly, i dont notice anything different about the sound though


----------



## parthabhatta

Slater said:


> The driver flex is common in the ZS3, due to its very sealed design. This is the main reason it has such good isolation, but at the expense of driver flex.
> 
> In addition to the clogged hole mentioned in the post below yours, there are 3 additional solutions. Some may work better or worse for you.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I will try #1&2 and not 3.


----------



## viva_360

phrancini said:


> as promised here I am.
> 
> I made you a simple diagram. use the little "dome" in the plug as reference point! let me know if you need more help


Thank you very much!


----------



## phrancini

viva_360 said:


> Thank you very much!



No problem


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> ZS5v1 is a GEM if used with neutral-warm DAC and amped properly with low output impedance. I still have it and occasionally listen instead modded IT01 - amazing live experience
> I wish more ZS5v1 owners could inject around 3V/80mA per channel into them!



I was lucky to get two v1 and not getting rid of them. They sound(ed) great through the smartphone or laptop jack... until you plug them into something more powerful and then you just can't go back! My FiiO X3 II in Hi gain is enough to make them sing. 

But as stated, the Hidizs Sonata is a much better option when compared to my smartphone jack. 

Both DACs tend to be on the warmer side, but FiiO is more "midcentric".

I also like the ZS5v1 with my DIY modified Grado RA1/Cmoy amp, though I suspect its output impedance is too high... never measured it, though.


----------



## scottySK

Received my new TRN 8 core 0.75 upgrade cable. Feels nice and is significantly thicker than any of the stock cables I own. Just wanted to let people know the 0.75 version fits both my TRN V80 and my KZ ZS10 perfectly. Definitely recommend it for $10USD delivered. Took about 10 days to get to Australia


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

scottySK said:


> Received my new TRN 8 core 0.75 upgrade cable. Feels nice and is significantly thicker than any of the stock cables I own. Just wanted to let people know the 0.75 version fits both my TRN V80 and my KZ ZS10 perfectly. Definitely recommend it for $10USD delivered. Took about 10 days to get to Australia


Mine are on the way, expecting them to be delivered tomorrow. Ordered the copper-spc mixed variant in 2.5mm and 3.5mm terminations.


----------



## fluteloop (Oct 18, 2018)

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Guys my year old non-stock KZ cables which I got a year back (for $6 during a sale) with my KZ ZS6 just got ripped from the left side all of a sudden today, and so I'm in need of new ones. Any special recommendations?
> 
> BTW upon using the ones which came stock with KZ ZS6, I noticed a great deal of quality loss across the board with increased sibilance as well while A/B'ing. Now I get why some people can't bear the highs on these. Maybe it's the cables. Most people wouldn't bother changing them and then make a bad judgement of them. Can't say about others but it's 100% true for me. Never experienced the so-called piercing treble on ZS6 since I've the non-stock ones on from day 1. I too am a part of the better cables= better sound club now. Quite a revelation!




I recently plugged in the stock cable into some zs6's after listening to exclisively with the upgraded braided rope looking one, and I was also shocked at the difference, I remembered when I first tried the new cable and did notice a slight difference (I Wasn't blown away I just noticed the highs slightly curbed and the overall range to be clearer, whether that's something to do with the cable itself or the malfuntion of the stock one that I owned, that's not tested)_ so kept it on but going back the other way has been the most noticable, I just received a few of the newer darker bronze looking cables (bsacially the same) the quality of audio is still good if not better than the older upgraded model, also the wire covering feels softer, still quality just less twangy like my other ones are lol. like wirey,, still good. I do like the newer bronze ones now, they''re like 0.02 thicker and softer more pliable sheath.   happy days. the mids and upper mids sound punchier. i'm really sceptical too but initial listening of material I'm very familiar with on a source I am welded too, that's my initial finding. the airyness is less but the punch and dynamic sound is warmer. but still clear.   I don't drink really at all, and when i drink (I've had a couple of brewskadeezys) I might be hearing things. 10.10 weould recomend. maybe checkout the impedance dongles too, not sure where you get them but I've heard they're good for tuning on different sources so tame harshness. happy times.

tldr: going back to the stock cable after so long with the "upgraded" cable will offer the biggest or most noticeble difference as opposed to the initial shift to "upgraded" cable.  In my opinion, or at least from what I found. and I stand by that.


----------



## fluteloop (Oct 18, 2018)

khighly said:


> I don't know what 'fast' means, but the AS10 has a much more detailed low end and can extend further in each direction. ZS10 is definitely not my favorite low end from KZ. AS10 is quite a few dB louder in sub bass and mid bass as well.



I think that's like how fast the speaker adapts to the variation of sounds being sent through, for a bassy example would be a series of Bass kicks maybe double kicks or something played over the top of a bassline of some kind, the speakers ability to represent the bassline AND also have the kick drums or bass kicks resolve properly amongst all of that bass juice. I used to call it speaker recovery but I don't know if people understood what I was talking about... or if that was ever some official terminology 

have you answered questions like "so which do you prefer, the zs10 or the as10 and why?"  if you have. is it in this thread I can look back for it. also I feel people who have the zs10 + as10 or have used them extensively are the best to comment on the ba10 which, to be honest I was really proud of KZ when they announced them and their "unique" kz design, but did they have to go to such extremes.. it wouldn't be coopying as such if one was to design around the shape of the human ear. annnnyway,..


----------



## fluteloop

nxnje said:


> I feel like my right ZS6 sounds very little softer than my left one.
> Did anyone experience this problem before?
> How can i check if that is a headphone problem?



do you have a multimeter ?  you can check the polarity of your cable and also your earphones to check if they're terminated correctly.  Also testing the impedence of the earphone can give an indication of a problem somewhere,  I'd also check your source channels are working correctly, if it can Pan Left and right worth a look, swapping l+r cables each side, for each earphone check they give the same result when swapped and reversed, be sure the cable is on the eearphone correctly and correct polarity is given. gadoosh


----------



## Slater (Oct 18, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> I think that's like how fast the speaker adapts to the variation of sounds being sent through, for a bassy example would be a series of Bass kicks maybe double kicks or something played over the top of a bassline of some kind, the speakers ability to represent the bassline AND also have the kick drums or bass kicks resolve properly amongst all of that bass juice. I used to call it speaker recovery but I don't know if people understood what I was talking about... or if that was ever some official terminology



Yup, you got it. Fast referrs to the ability to handle transients well. Not many headphones/IEMs seem do it well.

I’ve found metal is a good torture test for the fastness/speed of gear.

BAs generally handle it better than a single dynamic. I assume because the diaphragm is physically smaller.

The type and construction of the diaphragm comes into play (as well as voice coil and magnet).

In multi-BA IEMs, there’s different drivers handling different frequencies, so it basically spreads the work load so to speak. The same could be said for some double dynamics too in theory.

I don’t have the AS10, so I don’t know how well it handles fast music. Maybe someone will chime in with an answer.


----------



## fluteloop

do you think any company is going to make an earphone that looks like a hearing aid, microphone unit.  50 ba's piped into the ear canal, built in amplifier. should have stopped at the second beer.


----------



## jeromeaparis

scottySK said:


> Received my new TRN 8 core 0.75 upgrade cable. Feels nice and is significantly thicker than any of the stock cables I own. Just wanted to let people know the 0.75 version fits both my TRN V80 and my KZ ZS10 perfectly. Definitely recommend it for $10USD delivered. Took about 10 days to get to Australia


I am very interested by your feelings about the sound of your trn cable (compared with stock cable)
after some time of listening.

is it this one ? : 
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/TRN-8-Core-Am-lior-Argent-Plaqu-C-ble-3-5-MMCX-couteurs-Mets-C-ble/32931782166.html


----------



## fluteloop (Oct 18, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yup, you got it. Fast referrs to the ability to handle transients well. Not many headphones/IEMs seem do it well.
> 
> The type and construction of the diaphragm comes into play (as well as voice coil and magnet).
> 
> ...



thank you. i've noticed that when the frequency is split into separate ranges and fed into the associated driver the fact the driver only has to deal with a limited "range" or a more focussed range I should say (dictated by the crossover points) it helps a lot with transients.  so essentially, what was expected of single dynamic drivers (exotic, expensive materials, essentially the lightest and stiffest materials that could be implemented) can now be spread out across generally less Exotic drivers that still have abilities and characteristics of their own.

and i'd agree with the dual dynamic driver mention, anything that takes load off one driver and gives to another can then basically free up the original driver to concentrate on what it does best, essentially more bass requires more air to move and bigger drivers can do that while smaller drivers can concentrate on higher freqs can be smaller in size so with only bass frequencies to worry about the larger diaphragm has nothing else to confuse or muddle up  its job.  resulting in theoretically a cleaner reproduction.   (cheesy grin)


----------



## Tunaa

Can anyone d


blur.png said:


> the ES4 cable is angled while ZS6 is straight, now that you mentioned it, its possible, but it wont be secured properly, i dont notice anything different about the sound though


Well i have had 2 pair of KZ ZS6s and one of them had the lip on the nozzle section. And also it has different pin ports from the other one. With the old one i can use angled cable easly. But with mine new ZS6s its impossible. So they've changed the pin ports i guess.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Drumkrunk said:


> I recently plugged in the stock cable into some zs6's after listening to exclisively with the upgraded braided rope looking one, and I was also shocked at the difference, I remembered when I first tried the new cable and did notice a slight difference (I Wasn't blown away I just noticed the highs slightly curbed and the overall range to be clearer, whether that's something to do with the cable itself or the malfuntion of the stock one that I owned, that's not tested)_ so kept it on but going back the other way has been the most noticable, I just received a few of the newer darker bronze looking cables (bsacially the same) the quality of audio is still good if not better than the older upgraded model, also the wire covering feels softer, still quality just less twangy like my other ones are lol. like wirey,, still good. I do like the newer bronze ones now, they''re like 0.02 thicker and softer more pliable sheath.   happy days. the mids and upper mids sound punchier. i'm really sceptical too but initial listening of material I'm very familiar with on a source I am welded too, that's my initial finding. the airyness is less but the punch and dynamic sound is warmer. but still clear.   I don't drink really at all, and when i drink (I've had a couple of brewskadeezys) I might be hearing things. 10.10 weould recomend. maybe checkout the impedance dongles too, not sure where you get them but I've heard they're good for tuning on different sources so tame harshness. happy times.
> 
> tldr: going back to the stock cable after so long with the "upgraded" cable will offer the biggest or most noticeble difference as opposed to the initial shift to "upgraded" cable.  In my opinion, or at least from what I found. and I stand by that.



Couldn't have said it better myself (maybe with better spellings  Sorry!)  
Changing from stock to non-stock cables a year back, I too didn't notice much of a difference and continued using them. Until yesterday, when I was forced to use the stock ones and now the difference was night and day. Don't know about iems/headphones but cables burn-in is certainly a thing. 
Thinking of going with a nice 8 core cable this time around. My KZ ZS6 certainly deserves it. My love for it still hasn't diminished even after a year. It's sq still surprise me to this day. All-time Chi-Fi legend!


----------



## blur.png

Tunaa said:


> Can anyone d
> 
> Well i have had 2 pair of KZ ZS6s and one of them had the lip on the nozzle section. And also it has different pin ports from the other one. With the old one i can use angled cable easly. But with mine new ZS6s its impossible. So they've changed the pin ports i guess.


well mine's an older batch (missing lips on the right side eugh), maybe the plugs are more recessed than the original batches


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 18, 2018)

scottySK said:


> Received my new TRN 8 core 0.75 upgrade cable. Feels nice and is significantly thicker than any of the stock cables I own. Just wanted to let people know the 0.75 version fits both my TRN V80 and my KZ ZS10 perfectly. Definitely recommend it for $10USD delivered. Took about 10 days to get to Australia



If you use the handphone app, there is a fantastic offer for these on checkout at NiceHCK.  They have choices for 0.75mm / 0.78mm / MMCX  both 3.5mm and 2.5mm TRRS (balanced) and in both colours.
You won't see the final price on selection, only on the "Shopping Cart".  8-core cables at just  US$8.79/ - each from a reputable seller.  Completely unbelievable!  ( I just grabbed 2 pieces)


----------



## Tunaa

blur.png said:


> well mine's an older batch (missing lips on the right side eugh), maybe the plugs are more recessed than the original batches


But the old batches are much better on that way. Their plugs are more durable i guess. I have lost mine ES4's left side during the travel.


----------



## Slater

Drumkrunk said:


> do you think any company is going to make an earphone that looks like a hearing aid, microphone unit.  50 ba's piped into the ear canal, built in amplifier. should have stopped at the second beer.



You’d be surprised.

I never thought I’d see cat ear headphones, IEMs with stuff like bananas and mushrooms stuck out the side, etc


----------



## nxnje

Drumkrunk said:


> do you have a multimeter ?  you can check the polarity of your cable and also your earphones to check if they're terminated correctly.  Also testing the impedence of the earphone can give an indication of a problem somewhere,  I'd also check your source channels are working correctly, if it can Pan Left and right worth a look, swapping l+r cables each side, for each earphone check they give the same result when swapped and reversed, be sure the cable is on the eearphone correctly and correct polarity is given. gadoosh



Thanks for your information
I actually tried using them pushing them into my ear canal picking the upper part of the ear and pull it up, and at the same time opening my mouth. 
They now go deep in the ear canal and i can hear there is no difference between the two channels, it think my right ear canal is just different and that's why when i listen to music i tend to hear different if i compare right and left ear canals.
I think i'm gonna try triple flange tips.
For example my right ear canal is way larger than the left one.


----------



## scottySK

jeromeaparis said:


> I am very interested by your feelings about the sound of your trn cable (compared with stock cable)
> after some time of listening.
> 
> is it this one ? :
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/TRN-8-Core-Am-lior-Argent-Plaqu-C-ble-3-5-MMCX-couteurs-Mets-C-ble/32931782166.html



Yes that's the one. I can't say much about the sound, seems the same to my ears. First impressions felt that there was slightly less air, so maybe it softens the treble perhaps? I'm more inclined to say that it is 99% the same. I only purchased it for the look and feel - stock cables tangle too much


----------



## Rippersyte

Drumkrunk said:


> thank you. i've noticed that when the frequency is split into separate ranges and fed into the associated driver the fact the driver only has to deal with a limited "range" or a more focussed range I should say (dictated by the crossover points) it helps a lot with transients.  so essentially, what was expected of single dynamic drivers (exotic, expensive materials, essentially the lightest and stiffest materials that could be implemented) can now be spread out across generally less Exotic drivers that still have abilities and characteristics of their own.
> 
> and i'd agree with the dual dynamic driver mention, anything that takes load off one driver and gives to another can then basically free up the original driver to concentrate on what it does best, essentially more bass requires more air to move and bigger drivers can do that while smaller drivers can concentrate on higher freqs can be smaller in size so with only bass frequencies to worry about the larger diaphragm has nothing else to confuse or muddle up  its job.  resulting in theoretically a cleaner reproduction.   (cheesy grin)



so basically BA is better than DD for IEMs?


----------



## kukkurovaca

Rippersyte said:


> so basically BA is better than DD for IEMs?



Each type of driver has its own strengths and weaknesses (or, at least, risk factors in implementation).

Multi-driver IEMs, especially cheap ones, can lack "coherence" because some part of the frequency range isn't adequately covered by any of the drivers, or because the overall tuning is imbalanced. 

There are good and bad examples of BA, DD, planar, and hybrid IEMs. Unless you care greatly about some aspect that is specific to a given driver, look at the overall performance rather than what parts are used. 

(An example of something driver-specific is faster bass "speed" with BA and planar drivers vs. greater bass impact or "slam" with dynamic drivers.)


----------



## Slater

Tunaa said:


> Can anyone d
> 
> Well i have had 2 pair of KZ ZS6s and one of them had the lip on the nozzle section. And also it has different pin ports from the other one. With the old one i can use angled cable easly. But with mine new ZS6s its impossible. So they've changed the pin ports i guess.



Got a photo? There hasn’t been any 2-pin jack changes on the ZS6 from what we’ve seen. I have numerous ZS6, including newer ones with the nozzle lip, and the area where the 2-pin goes is the same on all of them.

BTW, I’ve never been able to get any of the ZST style angled cables to work (called B type). All of the ZS6 I have require the straight cables (called the A type, used on the ZS3, ZS5, and ZS6)

On the new ZSN they changed to a different plug. Is that what you’re referring to?


----------



## williamclarkonet

I just picked up the KZ ZS4 and ES3 which one has better bass?


----------



## blur.png (Oct 19, 2018)

Slater said:


> Got a photo? There hasn’t been any 2-pin jack changes on the ZS6 from what we’ve seen. I have numerous ZS6, including newer ones with the nozzle lip, and the area where the 2-pin goes is the same on all of them.
> 
> BTW, I’ve never been able to get any of the ZST style angled cables to work (called B type). All of the ZS6 I have require the straight cables (called the A type, used on the ZS3, ZS5, and ZS6)
> 
> On the new ZSN they changed to a different plug. Is that what you’re referring to?


huh weird, my ES4 cable (type b i believe) works just fine with my ZS6, it wont be secured "properly" (it wont lock with the rounded edge like the straight jack & hit the small lip around the connector) but it does work & is secure enough that it wont just fall off if i want to run it that way


----------



## Tunaa

Slater said:


> Got a photo? There hasn’t been any 2-pin jack changes on the ZS6 from what we’ve seen. I have numerous ZS6, including newer ones with the nozzle lip, and the area where the 2-pin goes is the same on all of them.
> 
> BTW, I’ve never been able to get any of the ZST style angled cables to work (called B type). All of the ZS6 I have require the straight cables (called the A type, used on the ZS3, ZS5, and ZS6)
> 
> On the new ZSN they changed to a different plug. Is that what you’re referring to?


Well im not able to take photo of them but as i said one of the pairs has better pin port i have had the ES4 cable and i could easily plug them into the ZS6(has no lip)2-pin port.


----------



## scottySK

Can anyone remember what price the zs6 sold for last year during the 11.11 sales? Im interested in picking them up if the price is right!


----------



## phrancini

scottySK said:


> Can anyone remember what price the zs6 sold for last year during the 11.11 sales? Im interested in picking them up if the price is right!



I'd like to know as well

I might be interested in getting a new one as mine is starting to show its age...


----------



## blur.png

scottySK said:


> Can anyone remember what price the zs6 sold for last year during the 11.11 sales? Im interested in picking them up if the price is right!


i think its about $31 on 11.11 (GB) , now on ali you can get them for $30 ish too
im sure the reduction is because usd is "strengthening" & lower manufacturing cost now, so maybe next 11.11 will be even cheaper


----------



## scottySK

blur.png said:


> i think its about $31 on 11.11 (GB) , now on ali you can get them for $30 ish too
> im sure the reduction is because usd is "strengthening" & lower manufacturing cost now, so maybe next 11.11 will be even cheaper



Thanks for the info. It's a shame the Australian dollar is so weak against the USD currently though  we also have to pay 10% tax now too


----------



## phrancini

blur.png said:


> i think its about $31 on 11.11 (GB) , now on ali you can get them for $30 ish too
> im sure the reduction is because usd is "strengthening" & lower manufacturing cost now, so maybe next 11.11 will be even cheaper



I must have been lucky then. I got mine on ebay for 17EUR last year. Let's hope this year the price will be in the 20s USD range.


----------



## RomStar

Hey guys, I've missed quite a few months of head-fi...which is literally the equivalent of a few years worth of posts... Ngl

It's that time of the year again, where I have some spare cash to spend, and the last satisfactory kz purchase for me was Zs5 v1, where I skipped the treble heavy Zs6s. I know as10 some other stuff came out, so here's my question

- Has there been any upgrades and not side-grades from Kz?

- My preference is Strong punchy bass, with good sub-bass and I always appreciate crisp treble. So that should help if anyone was wondering my preferences

- Loved the Zs5s, with Sir slaters nilon bass mods and tapes for the bass vents

- Can amp up my iems, so that shouldn't be an issue, my budgets 50-100$ for now

Thanks to anyone for taking the time to read this, and hopefully there's some good stuff I can sink my teeth into, looking to get back into music after some stressful moths, 

Keel staying classy yall


----------



## blur.png

RomStar said:


> Hey guys, I've missed quite a few months of head-fi...which is literally the equivalent of a few years worth of posts... Ngl
> 
> It's that time of the year again, where I have some spare cash to spend, and the last satisfactory kz purchase for me was Zs5 v1, where I skipped the treble heavy Zs6s. I know as10 some other stuff came out, so here's my question
> 
> ...


for the cheap class, i'd say the ES4 if your device can drive it properly, my phone makes it sound semi-warm by boosting the bass a bit ,while my ultrabook made it sounds brighter and makes the bass slightly crisper (less muddy is the word im looking for i think), though im not sure myself as my phone runs viper4x with playback gain control


----------



## Slater

scottySK said:


> Can anyone remember what price the zs6 sold for last year during the 11.11 sales? Im interested in picking them up if the price is right!





phrancini said:


> I'd like to know as well
> 
> I might be interested in getting a new one as mine is starting to show its age...



You can find out with Aliprice. It is a historic price checker, similar to camelcamelcamel for Amazon.


----------



## RomStar

blur.png said:


> for the cheap class, i'd say the ES4 if your device can drive it properly, my phone makes it sound semi-warm by boosting the bass a bit ,while my ultrabook made it sounds brighter and makes the bass slightly crisper (less muddy is the word im looking for i think), though im not sure myself as my phone runs viper4x with playback gain control


Thanks for the reply, 

I am honestly looking for an upgrade and correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the es4 was good, but not really an upgrade in terms of sound resolution or presentation compared to zs5 v1s

I know the Tin2s were pretty good at the sub $50 range, so I'm looking for something that's a good upgrade from the V1s that won't break my bank

But then again, I don't mind settling for some great sub $30 iems, and thanks for the recommendation  

-Romstar


----------



## phrancini

Slater said:


> You can find out with Aliprice. It is a historic price checker, similar to camelcamelcamel for Amazon.



Thanks, I've been using keepa for a long time, finally I can track chinese prices as well!


----------



## mbwilson111

RomStar said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> 
> I am honestly looking for an upgrade and correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the es4 was good, but not really an upgrade in terms of sound resolution or presentation compared to zs5 v1s
> 
> ...



If it does not have to be a KZ, you might like to explore this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...-reference-list.805930/page-915#post-14547635


----------



## RvTrav

My wife has been pretty good with my hobby (addiction), but she recently started complaining about all the drawers being filled with earphones.

Here is my solution to this problem.


----------



## B9Scrambler

RvTrav said:


> My wife has been pretty good with my hobby (addiction), but she recently started complaining about all the drawers being filled with earphones.
> 
> Here is my solution to this problem.



That....is awesome


----------



## sino8r

RvTrav said:


> My wife has been pretty good with my hobby (addiction), but she recently started complaining about all the drawers being filled with earphones.
> 
> Here is my solution to this problem.



Holy crap! How many sets do you think you have now?


----------



## mbwilson111

RvTrav said:


> My wife has been pretty good with my hobby (addiction), but she recently started complaining about all the drawers being filled with earphones.
> 
> Here is my solution to this problem.



Impressive. Did you build that?  Why is the bottom part empty?  

I wish we had some spare wall space... or any spare space anywhere...


----------



## RvTrav

mbwilson111 said:


> Impressive. Did you build that?  Why is the bottom part empty?
> 
> I wish we had some spare wall space... or any spare space anywhere...



It is actually is a shoe rack, I cut the bars to make it narrower.  I ran out of the small boxes for the bottom but purchased more last night and only have 7 empty.  Maybe I will be able to stop when it is full?  Maybe.


----------



## bhazard

Rtings reviewed the AS10 with measurements. Pretty spot on.

It's weird how they only say it has "decent sound", but then they go on in comparisons against the $500 W40, a Shure, and the 1Mores and it meets or exceeds them impression wise.


----------



## Mellowship

Yay!


----------



## mbwilson111

RvTrav said:


> It is actually is a shoe rack, I cut the bars to make it narrower.  I ran out of the small boxes for the bottom but purchased more last night and only have 7 empty.  Maybe I will be able to stop when it is full?  Maybe.



Either that or you add another rack... I think I see leftover wall space...lol.


----------



## Slater

RvTrav said:


> My wife has been pretty good with my hobby (addiction), but she recently started complaining about all the drawers being filled with earphones.
> 
> Here is my solution to this problem.



Looks great!

What kind of red cases are those?


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Which one to get for my KZ ZS6 between the two? Both are 8 core. Or some other?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 19, 2018)

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Which one to get for my KZ ZS6 between the two? Both are 8 core. Or some other?



I would choose whichever one looks the nicest with whatever color your ZS6 is.  What color do you have?


----------



## RvTrav

Slater said:


> Looks great!
> 
> What kind of red cases are those?



They are made by Betty Crocker and I get them at one of the dollar stores.  They come in a 2 pack.


----------



## Mellowship

The as10 are the real deal!

But ...

 
Using then with the ZST cable. The new one didn't survive the surgery of removing the memory wire... Still got a success rate of 87.5%. 

Guess I'm on the market for a new one...


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

mbwilson111 said:


> I would choose whichever one looks the nicest with whatever color you ZS6 is.  What color do you have?



I have it in red.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> I have it in red.



Actually, that second cable says MMCX.   The ZS6 uses 2pin... make sure that whatever you get will work with it.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually, that second cable says MMCX.   The ZS6 uses 2pin... make sure that whatever you get will work with it.



Aliexpress and their titles. Sellers write whatever they like. 0.75mm 2 pin cable very much available there. Thanks for the concern though!


----------



## Mellowship

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Which one to get for my KZ ZS6 between the two? Both are 8 core. Or some other?



Just ordered the b&w one for my brand new as10...


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Mellowship said:


> Just ordered the b&w one for my brand new as10...



Great! I too have decided to go with the trn one only. Will look more badass with the red ZS6. How's AS10 btw? An upgrade over ZS6, or just a sidegrade?


----------



## Mellowship

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Great! I too have decided to go with the trn one only. Will look more badass with the red ZS6. How's AS10 btw? An upgrade over ZS6, or just a sidegrade?



I don't have the zs6, but compared with the ba kss I do have (ZST, zs5, ZS4), the treble is tamed down to much lower levels, the bass is punchy and eloquent, and the imaging in there, they can do 3d, but depth of stage seem to be somewhat behind your head. I really have to listen closer, but they have a refined sound. They are definitely different from their kin.


----------



## Mellowship

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Great! I too have decided to go with the trn one only. Will look more badass with the red ZS6. How's AS10 btw? An upgrade over ZS6, or just a sidegrade?




Came to the garden to have a good listening session with them.


----------



## khighly

TRN BT10 came wired out of phase . Not a great first impression of TRN and makes the cable unwearable. Need to see if I can get my money back or get a replacement. Says BT 4.1 on the back while quoted 4.2. AAC sounds pretty bad, but aptX sounds phenomenal. Able to power the AS10's just fine. More pronounced highs on the AS10's too.

I noticed it has the same exact female announcement voices as my Mee Audio aptX headset I use with the IT03's. Same layout with batteries on both sides. Hmm.


----------



## khighly

Mellowship said:


> I don't have the zs6, but compared with the ba kss I do have (ZST, zs5, ZS4), the treble is tamed down to much lower levels, the bass is punchy and eloquent, and the imaging in there, they can do 3d, but depth of stage seem to be somewhat behind your head. I really have to listen closer, but they have a refined sound. They are definitely different from their kin.


Definitely different from anything I think KZ has put out. Looking forward to extended listening opinions.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Mellowship said:


> I don't have the zs6, but compared with the ba kss I do have (ZST, zs5, ZS4), the treble is tamed down to much lower levels, the bass is punchy and eloquent, and the imaging in there, they can do 3d, but depth of stage seem to be somewhat behind your head. I really have to listen closer, but they have a refined sound. They are definitely different from their kin.



Yep! Have heard those great things about them elsewhere as well. Thing is getting a Tin Audio T2 last month, which has got lesser bass, abysmal fit and isolation when compared to ZS6, has just been a sidegrade of sorts and don't really get much listening time as my year old ZS6.
So, was really searching for a real upgrade to ZS6. Might score an AS10 on 11.11. Let's see!


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Mellowship said:


> Came to the garden to have a good listening session with them.



Pink Floyd was the first thing which came to mind when I saw it.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

khighly said:


> TRN BT10 came wired out of phase . Not a great first impression of TRN and makes the cable unwearable. Need to see if I can get my money back or get a replacement. Says BT 4.1 on the back while quoted 4.2. AAC sounds pretty bad, but aptX sounds phenomenal. Able to power the AS10's just fine. More pronounced highs on the AS10's too.
> 
> I noticed it has the same exact female announcement voices as my Mee Audio aptX headset I use with the IT03's. Same layout with batteries on both sides. Hmm.



Just as I was going for a trn cable, here comes the doubt creator!


----------



## Mellowship

khighly said:


> Definitely different from anything I think KZ has put out. Looking forward to extended listening opinions.


@khighly, your collection of earphones in the signature is quite close to mine!  

Yes, as10 is different, in a good way. First thing I am noticing is that they take a good pounding without sounding congested. They are fast and articulate. Bass has a good punch but less range, it doesn't seem to go as low as ZS5, ZS4, but is more present and audible. They strangely remember me the bass on small British speakers amplified with an old NAD integrated. 
Mids are much closer. This is new. The V got much shorter. 
The treble... I haven't decided yet if I like it. It's something about the decay... they are not sounding natural..  yet... 
Tempo is really enjoyable, they are fun without being overemphasized. Foot-tapping material. PRaT. Whatever. 
Really got to listen with more tracks and more time. 
Timbre will take more time to assess. Male voices seem ok. Female not so much. There is something strange with the high mids-low treble, maybe they need different tips... Maybe to many drivers working their way out of a multitude of harmonics... Or maybe they need... Hum... Should I say it... Burn in. There, I said it.


----------



## Mellowship

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Pink Floyd was the first thing which came to mind when I saw it.


Been listening to "the wall" lately, for political reasons

I have here a great rip of it from MFSL!


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Mellowship said:


> Been listening to "the wall" lately, for political reasons
> 
> I have here a great rip of it from MFSL!



That's really cool!


----------



## rayliam80

HungryPanda said:


> KZ BA10's in the house, in fact in my ears right now. With stock tips (Starlines) these sound really good. A real KZ winner in my estimation



Since you have the ZS10, is the BA10 a dramatic step up? And does it resolve and have a decent timbre on par with the Ibasso IT01 or better?


----------



## Francisk

Here's a new AS10 review by Rtings.com: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/as10


----------



## khighly

Francisk said:


> Here's a new AS10 review by Rtings.com: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/as10


Really good review, thanks. The only thing I really don't agree with is soundstage. They're on par with any other IEM I consider to have a good soundstage. Otherwise, pretty on par with my thoughts.


----------



## maxxevv

khighly said:


> Really good review, thanks. The only thing I really don't agree with is soundstage. They're on par with any other IEM I consider to have a good soundstage. Otherwise, pretty on par with my thoughts.



Its very odd when you read between the lines ... the writer seems to keep harping on lacking an inline remote and panning it as a major flaw of sorts !  lol

But in general, I do not agree with his review in a few areas.  

1: Comparing soundstage with ear buds ?!!  Its not even an apples to apples comparison.  
     Also, the 1More Triples are NOT better in soundstage. The ZS10 is comparatively and that is way better compared to the 1More Triple. I have listened to all 3. 

2. I still don't get how the ZS10 treble can be considered bright though. Its as politely rolled off as it should be. And of all the KZ earphones I have the ZS10 are the only ones which are completely sibilance free except in the worst of audio tracks.  Sure the writer got the right earphones ? 

3. Sibilance on the AS10 is very mild, negligible in fact, it takes recordings with clear sibilance issues to bring it out. A few of my regular tracks exhibit sibilance on the ZS6 but not on the AS10. Though there are still some which will but nowhere near the levels of what the ZS6 produces. And by comparison, the ZS10 practically doesn't exhibit it at all in except the worst of such tracks. 

4. The AS10 has a quicker, tighter bass but it doesn't go as low and deep as the ZS10 and to a certain extent the ZS6 either. Its very well controlled. No idea where the boominess comes in though.


----------



## khighly

maxxevv said:


> Its very odd when you read between the lines ... the writer seems to keep harping on lacking an inline remote and panning it as a major flaw of sorts !  lol
> 
> But in general, I do not agree with his review in a few areas.
> 
> ...



1More Triple is more neutral and frankly, boring. It has a very narrow soundstage as well.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> 1More Triple is more neutral and frankly, boring. It has a very narrow soundstage as well.



I was not impressed with the triple either. Not for the $100 price tag.


----------



## scottySK

Mellowship said:


> Just ordered the b&w one for my brand new as10...


I ordered both the trn and the KZ cables you list here. They are cheaper through the app though.. about $10usd delivered. Still waiting on the KZ one but, taking quite a bit longer than the seller who shipped my trn cable


----------



## Tunaa (Oct 20, 2018)

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Which one to get for my KZ ZS6 between the two? Both are 8 core. Or some other?


I have the first cable. Wow did not know that its 8 core  its trully upgrade from the stock cable. With ZS6 sound is more forward IMHO. some says its


khighly said:


> Really good review, thanks. The only thing I really don't agree with is soundstage. They're on par with any other IEM I consider to have a good soundstage. Otherwise, pretty on par with my thoughts.


I wanna ask you a question. I have had ZS6s and my AS10 is on the way. Does AS10s has better mids ?


----------



## scottySK

ZS6 can now be preordered for the 11.11 sale at $26USD


----------



## randomnin

bhazard said:


> Rtings reviewed the AS10 with measurements. Pretty spot on.
> 
> It's weird how they only say it has "decent sound", but then they go on in comparisons against the $500 W40, a Shure, and the 1Mores and it meets or exceeds them impression wise.


Thank you for bringing this review to my attention! I'm definitely getting ZS4 at 11.11, but I'm still in doubt about getting ZS10 or AS10, or neither (in the end I do already own TRN V80, which is in the same league). But I think something is wrong with the Rtings' AS10 unit. ThePhonograph's graphs show no such difference in upper treble between ZS10 and AS10.


----------



## marcuscmy

I have heard the KZ10 and they are rather not bad. A 5 BA 1 dynamic setup is a dangerous approach, but one thats quite hyped recently. The bass were deep and solid, however it just felt like there was a disconnection in the mid ranges, where the BAs and the dynamic drivers couldn't sync.


----------



## blur.png

marcuscmy said:


> I have heard the KZ10 and they are rather not bad. A 5 BA 1 dynamic setup is a dangerous approach, but one thats quite hyped recently. The bass were deep and solid, however it just felt like there was a disconnection in the mid ranges, where the BAs and the dynamic drivers couldn't sync.


KZ10 ? 5BA 1DD ? huh? huh??? huh?!?!?!?
are you sure about that ? i have never heard of a "KZ10" nor that setup, zs10 is a 1dd 4BA and AS10 is a 5ba no dd setup
are you talking about another iem or is that a typo or some KZ i never heard of ?


----------



## phrancini

Do you think the Zs6 will go any lower on 11.11 or 26$ is the final price and I should preorder it?


----------



## Tunaa

marcuscmy said:


> I have heard the KZ10 and they are rather not bad. A 5 BA 1 dynamic setup is a dangerous approach, but one thats quite hyped recently. The bass were deep and solid, however it just felt like there was a disconnection in the mid ranges, where the BAs and the dynamic drivers couldn't sync.


----------



## pbui44

Tunaa said:


>



Be careful, or you will look at KZs like Big Smoke looks at the drive-in menu:


----------



## Tunaa

pbui44 said:


> Be careful, or you will look at KZs like Big Smoke looks at the drive-in menu:





pbui44 said:


> Be careful, or you will look at KZs like Big Smoke looks at the drive-in menu:


----------



## marcuscmy

blur.png said:


> KZ10 ? 5BA 1DD ? huh? huh??? huh?!?!?!?
> are you sure about that ? i have never heard of a "KZ10" nor that setup, zs10 is a 1dd 4BA and AS10 is a 5ba no dd setup
> are you talking about another iem or is that a typo or some KZ i never heard of ?



My bad it is indeed my mistake, the model number is AZ10, and it does have 4 BAs.


----------



## scottySK

phrancini said:


> Do you think the Zs6 will go any lower on 11.11 or 26$ is the final price and I should preorder it?


If you pre order but don't actually buy it then you get refunded I believe


----------



## nxnje

Tunaa said:


>





Tunaa said:


>



LOL it feels really bad watching these pics nowadays, i miss GTA:SA so much
Wondering how would have been listening to the vintage music that used to play in the car while driving.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

marcuscmy said:


> My bad it is indeed my mistake, the model number is AZ10, and it does have 4 BAs.



Repeat after me... It's KZ AS10 and it's KZ ZS10!


----------



## mbwilson111

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> Repeat after me... It's KZ AS10 and it's KZ ZS10!



You forgot KZ BA10


----------



## randomnin

I'm conflicted between either the opinion that KZ's naming conventions are awfully confusing or that guy being a horrible person, through and through to his rotten core  How does one dare to not know such sacred combinations of alphanumericals!?


----------



## mbwilson111

...and the test will be on Friday...


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

mbwilson111 said:


> You forgot KZ BA10



The confusing alphabets were A and Z. That's why!
Addition of another "B" will raise hell.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> I'm conflicted between either the opinion that KZ's naming conventions are awfully confusing or that guy being a horrible person, through and through to his rotten core  How does one dare to not know such sacred combinations of alphanumericals!?



Can't be worse than BGVP DMG haha


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Can't be worse than BGVP DMG haha



and  BQEYZ

They will all be on the final exam.  Match the names to the photos plus state the driver type and count.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Can't be worse than BGVP DMG haha



It certainly can! The BGVP BKYT MRY6 takes the award for crappiest product name of the century, lmao.


----------



## randomnin

B9Scrambler said:


> It certainly can! The BGVP BKYT MRY6 takes the award for crappiest product name of the century, lmao.


Beautiful. My heart races just seeing that and I joyously faint while pronouncing!


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and the test will be on Friday...



Now I'm going to have that dream again....


----------



## randomnin (Oct 20, 2018)

groucho69 said:


> Now I'm going to have that dream again....


Wait, PTSD after receiving mandatory minimum education lasts how long exactly? Can I hope it ends by 8th circle of wife hell?


----------



## groucho69

randomnin said:


> Wait, PTSD after receiving mandatory minimum education lasts how long exactly? Can I hope it ends by 8th circle of wife hell?



It never ends...sob....


----------



## Wiljen

B9Scrambler said:


> It certainly can! The BGVP BKYT MRY6 takes the award for crappiest product name of the century, lmao.



I dunno on that one.  One of the Chinese Flashlight brands in trying to come up with something SureFire or StreamLight like actually went with "Uranusfire".     Of all the things I do not want on fire, that has to come right at the top of the list.


----------



## antdroid

I am getting a ZSN review unit soon. Wonder how it'll be. Any impressions from anyone yet?


----------



## blur.png (Oct 21, 2018)

antdroid said:


> I am getting a ZSN review unit soon. Wonder how it'll be. Any impressions from anyone yet?


ooh interesting, ill be waiting for that review, my main grudge with the ZSN is the connector, only KZ does that connector for now which makes it proprietary


----------



## phrancini

antdroid said:


> I am getting a ZSN review unit soon. Wonder how it'll be. Any impressions from anyone yet?



Mine hasn't been shipped yet.. Considering it'll take more or less a month to get here. .I'll be able to review it in time for Christmas


----------



## kubin2984 (Oct 21, 2018)

antdroid said:


> I am getting a ZSN review unit soon. Wonder how it'll be. Any impressions from anyone yet?



i'm getting a ZSN Silver Purple too, from Tmall .


----------



## Wiljen

antdroid said:


> I am getting a ZSN review unit soon. Wonder how it'll be. Any impressions from anyone yet?



Still waiting on mine to arrive too.


----------



## randomnin

Damn, I hope the treble is not as recessed as the KZ's own graph shows. Otherwise, ZSN looks pretty great. Though the usual #30095 BA is ever present. But a new 10mm DD. I guess it could be looked as an opponent of ZS4. Metal back plate and nozzle are interesting, but, on the other hand, more separate parts mean a larger risk for something breaking. Isolation is of interest, and sound quality, if it is to best the ZS4. Also, the cable is something to look at, given that ZS4 had a new cable.

Looking at the bigger picture, I'd love for KZ to do their research in a more focused, target-oriented manner, not just randomising various parts together and seeing what sells. But then again, for a budget Chi-Fi maker, maybe such incremental and still profitable at every step projects are better suited for them than Massdrop Plus-type endeavours.


----------



## antdroid

randomnin said:


> Damn, I hope the treble is not as recessed as the KZ's own graph shows. Otherwise, ZSN looks pretty great. Though the usual #30095 BA is ever present. But a new 10mm DD. I guess it could be looked as an opponent of ZS4. Metal back plate and nozzle are interesting, but, on the other hand, more separate parts mean a larger risk for something breaking. Isolation is of interest, and sound quality, if it is to best the ZS4. Also, the cable is something to look at, given that ZS4 had a new cable.
> 
> Looking at the bigger picture, I'd love for KZ to do their research in a more focused, target-oriented manner, not just randomising various parts together and seeing what sells. But then again, for a budget Chi-Fi maker, maybe such incremental and still profitable at every step projects are better suited for them than Massdrop Plus-type endeavours.



Just my quick look at it's FR promotional chart, it looks similar to the AS10's upper treble response -- assuming that it's a RAW graph. It better be or our ears are going to be in serious pain if that's compensated. lol


----------



## randomnin (Oct 21, 2018)

antdroid said:


> Just my quick look at it's FR promotional chart, it looks similar to the AS10's upper treble response -- assuming that it's a RAW graph. It better be or our ears are going to be in serious pain if that's compensated. lol


Yeah, maybe until 10kHz it's passable, but 10-20kHz are not visible in that graph. Unless these frequencies are right below that graph's floor, the roll-off is too severe.
The power of tuning on display, anyhow, since ZS4 has the same BA, but the treble response is hotter -










But AS10 upper treble graphs are a mystery to me - Rtings.com and your graphs show noticeable cutoff after 14kHz, while ThePhonograph's shows no considerable upper treble difference between AS10 and ZS10 -








And that troubles me, because if I get ThePhonograph's AS10 I'd choose it over ZS10, but if not then the more consistent treble responses across graphs of ZS10 are preferable. Perplexing.


----------



## Makahl

randomnin said:


> Yeah, maybe until 10kHz it's passable, but 10-20kHz are not visible in that graph. Unless these frequencies are right below that graph's floor, the roll-off is too severe.
> The power of tuning on display, anyhow, since ZS4 has the same BA, but the treble response is much hotter -
> 
> 
> ...



KZ's graphic is photoshopped though. The curve has special effects, ultra smoothed, the "20K" is out of the grid. Probably this huge roll-off is a design mistake. I wouldn't take it seriously. 

I've seen some ZSN's pics and it has another vent now compared to ZST:






And as you've pointed out it uses the 30095 so, basically the same DNA at the treble like any KZ hybrid. I'd expect this ZSN to be an upgraded ZST with better bass and construction.


----------



## randomnin

Makahl said:


> KZ's graphic is photoshopped though. The curve has special effects, ultra smoothed, the "20K" is out of the grid. Probably this huge roll-off is a design mistake. I wouldn't take it seriously.
> 
> I've seen some ZSN's pics and it has another vent now compared to ZST:
> 
> ...


Yeah, vents I do not like, I guess ZSN won't be the basis of a last minute upheaval to my shopping list, namely by pushing ZS4 out.
But a lot of weird stuff happens, obviously first reviews will be the true test of that.


----------



## eclein

KZ BA10....weirdest thing I ever tried to fit in my ear but the sound quality continually blows me away. 
I’ve never in my 60 years had trouble getting an iem to fit in my ears, it took awhile but I finally got a fit with good solid seal with these strange looking beasts. Fit is the big variable with these and even if you don’t believe in burn in you gotta let these play off a source for a day or two to tame the spikes in the higher frequencies.
 Know that going in and you’ll probably be as shocked as I was at how clean and detailed these are but still musical with KZ type low end.
 I’m probably leaning toward a basshead being a drummer since I was a tot but its present and accounted for with these if you can get a solid seal. I find reasons to listen to them, and costantly think $80 bucks bought me the supercar I always wanted but could layou $1200ish bucks for. 
 If the high end iem manufacturers aren’t taking KZ seriously they should be! Did the big guys blatantly rip off the public? I’ll never buy anymore super expensive iems, it can be done just as well for less and its being proven by several (fill in the blank here) manufacturing companies almost daily. 
 I love these ugly things, more each day, they really have me pumped about audio and music again.
 I have smashed alot of cymbals and never wore earplugs while I played so I’ll spare you guys a tonal description of the BA10’s as it may be slightly askew. 

  Try em if you dig the kz sound, and somebody tell me when they put these in a more conventional shell...lol.
I’ll buy em again and try those too!


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm really enjoying the BA10 it is a great iem


----------



## scottySK

eclein said:


> KZ BA10....weirdest thing I ever tried to fit in my ear but the sound quality continually blows me away.
> I’ve never in my 60 years had trouble getting an iem to fit in my ears, it took awhile but I finally got a fit with good solid seal with these strange looking beasts. Fit is the big variable with these and even if you don’t believe in burn in you gotta let these play off a source for a day or two to tame the spikes in the higher frequencies.
> Know that going in and you’ll probably be as shocked as I was at how clean and detailed these are but still musical with KZ type low end.
> I’m probably leaning toward a basshead being a drummer since I was a tot but its present and accounted for with these if you can get a solid seal. I find reasons to listen to them, and costantly think $80 bucks bought me the supercar I always wanted but could layou $1200ish bucks for.
> ...



I thought the 5 x BA set up was the same as in the AS10? Do they sound similar? I own neither but will likely grab the AS10 soon


----------



## eclein

I never heard the AS10 but so not sure but I intended on buying the AS10 and saw the new BA10 so I found 3 folks who had heard or owned both and all three said basically the same thing about BA10 .....it was a more refined version of the AS10, that KZ hadn’t just slapped the same tuning/setup in the new housing but worked on refining it and taking that new tuning and housing it in the new weird looking aluminum one. It has a high quality feel to it, like a high end cellphone or DAP. 

I was trying to catch up with other folks who already heard/gotten other brands like TRN and other initial grouping brand names..... I found new TRN V80’s on AliExpress for $23, they haven’t arrived yet...these BA10’s are 5 days new for me.


----------



## antdroid

I thought the BA10 sounded darker than the AS10. My thoughts and impressions seem to differ than all others. My measurements also showed more recessed mids and slightly less treble. Could be my pair, could be just how I perceive things vs how others do. I do like neutral to brighter headphones so could be that. I just found the BA10 to sound off in general. But again, everyone has different tastes, fit, and listening preferences.


----------



## blur.png (Oct 22, 2018)

antdroid said:


> I thought the BA10 sounded darker than the AS10. My thoughts and impressions seem to differ than all others. My measurements also showed more recessed mids and slightly less treble. Could be my pair, could be just how I perceive things vs how others do. I do like neutral to brighter headphones so could be that. I just found the BA10 to sound off in general. But again, everyone has different tastes, fit, and listening preferences.


now im doubting my decision on which to buy, the as10 or the ba10, they are $15 apart on my local store, soo... which one should i get ?


----------



## Rippersyte

KZ BA10 plus Sony's Eartips (White) for me. Don't go for the Acoustune tips... i just wasted $20 for that. I have small ears and most of the problems of this kind of earphones is it doesn't fit well. I've experimented for the pass month and it came to my realization that I don't have even earholes hahaa. right is large and left is medium in sony size please don't buy acoustune eartips. 

As you can see i have sony for the past 10yrs or so... i still love the bass of DD than a BA. 
Sony Bass hands down
BA all except bass hands down

Looking forward for KZ to develop DD plus BA a hybrid like... i don't know about Planar can't afford that maybe someday after I graduate and get that license =)


----------



## Rippersyte

antdroid said:


> I thought the BA10 sounded darker than the AS10. My thoughts and impressions seem to differ than all others. My measurements also showed more recessed mids and slightly less treble. Could be my pair, could be just how I perceive things vs how others do. I do like neutral to brighter headphones so could be that. I just found the BA10 to sound off in general. But again, everyone has different tastes, fit, and listening preferences.



HAHA. I am currently earning so I could buy that infamous KZ BA10 killer... the KZ AS10 and compare. I also researched that each hearing of a person is like that of a fingerprint... not everyone hears the same way as the others.


----------



## Rippersyte

blur.png said:


> now im doubting my decision on which to buy, the as10 or the ba10, they are $15 apart on my local store, soo... which one should i get ?



To be safe I'd say you try them both before buying... as I bought my KZ BA10 blindly without knowing what it sounded like.. I got overly excited because firstly i tried a kz es4 and i was blown by it.. secondly its cheap if you convert it to a well known brand it would be like $1000+ if its Sony


----------



## nxnje

Rippersyte said:


> To be safe I'd say you try them both before buying... as I bought my KZ BA10 blindly without knowing what it sounded like.. I got overly excited because firstly i tried a kz es4 and i was blown by it.. secondly its cheap if you convert it to a well known brand it would be like $1000+ if its Sony



What the hell are you saying?


----------



## Rippersyte

nxnje said:


> What the hell are you saying?



Huh?  Just saying that try both.


----------



## nxnje

Rippersyte said:


> Huh?  Just saying that try both.


Then you said " its cheap if you convert it to a well known brand it would be like$1000+ if its Sony" and what does it mean?


----------



## blur.png

Rippersyte said:


> Huh?  Just saying that try both.


sorry i didnt clarify, i mean my local online store, they dont have an offline store i can just walk in & try, 
well i guess im going with my guts then, 
plastic shell ; warmer sound, 
alluminium shell ; brighter sound


----------



## blur.png

nxnje said:


> Then you said " its cheap if you convert it to a well known brand it would be like$1000+ if its Sony" and what does it mean?


im sure hes trying to say "oh its cheaper since both of them (as10&ba10) is "only" $100 compared to spending $1000 on a brand name earphone"


----------



## nxnje

blur.png said:


> im sure hes trying to say "oh its cheaper since both of them (as10&ba10) is "only" $100 compared to spending $1000 on a brand name earphone"



Then now it sounds way different.


----------



## Rippersyte

nxnje said:


> Then you said " its cheap if you convert it to a well known brand it would be like$1000+ if its Sony" and what does it mean?



That's just me expressing and yep blur.png is correct =) Chill men peace .


----------



## Mellowship

Just fixed the AS10  cable I had broken trying to take the memory wire off.



These plugs are a nightmare to work on! They have to be broken-open and then re-glued. Thank you epoxy! 
 

About the cable, I think the copper one KZ sells is better. I am not talking about sound quality, they sound the same, but this cable that comes with the AS10 is slightly more rubbery thus more prone to tangling. 
Also, having stripped when trying to take the memory wire off, they seem to be of lesser quality.

 

As for the sound quality, I am still testing. My first impressions were good regarding the frequency range, but I had some doubts about the way the treble/hig mids were contributing for the stereophonic imaging. I had trouble defining the position of instrumentation in depth, but now it seems to be focusing better.


----------



## Podster

Makahl said:


> KZ's graphic is photoshopped though. The curve has special effects, ultra smoothed, the "20K" is out of the grid. Probably this huge roll-off is a design mistake. I wouldn't take it seriously.
> 
> I've seen some ZSN's pics and it has another vent now compared to ZST:
> 
> ...



Well if they are an upgraded ZST they will surely be a hit, can't wait for mine to get here and join the rest of the KZ New Skool family


----------



## Podster

I really like the new KZ black cable on my old carbon ZST's


----------



## 1clearhead

I just placed an order for the KZ ZSN...One in "Cyan/Black", the other in "Purple/Silver".

With the housing made out of acrylic resin (instead of cheap plastic), plus a metal back plate cover? This is a "no brainer"! 



- Clear


----------



## aspire5550

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Alu...844.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dohbwyH

Just sharing this deal that I found. Have been looking for a metal case similar to those that ibasso it01 comes with. This was going for more than 10 usd few weeks ago when i last checked.


----------



## eclein

Nice price, my DUNU iems came in a similar type....gotta grab some of them..Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Oct 22, 2018)

If you like those metal cases, consider ordering the HiFi Walker A7 from Amazon. It’s a great sounding hybrid IEM (I think triple driver), has a nice mmcx cable (with 3-button iOS compatible remote), and it comes with one of those nice round metal case.

It’s on sale for $15.


----------



## phrancini

I bought the kz one, ABS plastic instead of metal, but seems rugged enough. houses 1 iem easily, less than 1.5usd iirc


----------



## Slater

phrancini said:


> I bought the kz one, ABS plastic instead of metal, but seems rugged enough. houses 1 iem easily, less than 1.5usd iirc



The KZ case I have (the ABS see-thru Pelican style ones) are too small to be useful.


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Got some stuff yesterday from Aliexpress and Gearbest...


ALIEXPRESS
 


GEARBEST
 


Selecting the cable was a royal pain! BTW 8 core cable for 8 bucks I think was a real steal. I just hope it's not a lemon. Also, that Trn case for 0.91 a piece was cherry on the cake. Looks quite spacious from the dimensions.

P.S.  Both the orders, to my surprise, were shipped today. Seller which shipped my T2 last month shipped them after 10 days. Took another 10 to reach me. Boo!


----------



## Phantomize (Oct 22, 2018)

Would you guys recommend the Tin Audio T2 (also in regard to other KZ options?)? And if so, is this a correct link for one (seeing as it is way cheaper than on other stores): link

Edit: Changed link to normal desktop link.


----------



## Podster (Oct 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> The KZ case I have (the ABS see-thru Pelican style ones) are too small to be useful.



Yeah Slater the little Pelican cases are just too small for larger iem's especially with thicker upgrade cables, these two TFZ's are literally stuffed into these cases! I refer to them and actually have this photo saved as the "Peli-can't" cases LOL





Now as you mentioned on the A7 case my Kinera IDUN's came with this awesome beauty





@1clearhead  I can't wait for my Black and smoke shell ZSN's to get here myself


----------



## Podster

Thought I'd better get politically correct in here Still love my KZ's Here's the Extreme MOZST


----------



## ThanosD

There is also this case from KZ. It's specious, and the ugly orange sticker can be easily removed. You can even put a custom label at it's place. The only problem is that the clips are quite stiff, and they don't provide a "crisp" click. Also this case is probably not waterproof, as it has no rubber ring. But for just carrying an iem, is sufficient.


----------



## Slater

ThanosD said:


> There is also this case from KZ. It's specious, and the ugly orange sticker can be easily removed. You can even put a custom label at it's place. The only problem is that the clips are quite stiff, and they don't provide a "crisp" click. Also this case is probably not waterproof, as it has no rubber ring. But for just carrying an iem, is sufficient.



These are my favorite “large” cases. As you mentioned, they aren’t as secure clasping or water proof (I don’t need water proof audio gear anyways). But they are a good balance of low cost with large size, and provide adequate protection. Plus the including foam lining is great for using on earphone mods (such as BA and nozzle mods).


----------



## eclein

Podster! Is that the Shan.M0?
Does it sound good?

ThanosD: I currently have that black case and fit my KZS5 & BA10 iems in it. My little plastic latch thingys are very
positive when latching giving a nice snap shut. New kinda how it is the latches are tight now but should loosen.
Water resistant maybe but submerging it might cause issues.


----------



## eclein

Are there mods for the BA10s already or am I misreading Slaters post?


----------



## ThanosD (Oct 22, 2018)

Slater said:


> These are my favorite “large” cases. As you mentioned, they aren’t as secure clasping or water proof (I don’t need water proof audio gear anyways). But they are a good balance of low cost with large size, and provide adequate protection. Plus the including foam lining is great for using on earphone mods (such as BA and nozzle mods).



That's true. These are even cheaper than the abs ones. If only they could just scale the abs variant to the dimensions of the larger one. I mostly use the smaller with normal in-ears, but with my customs it's very impractical, you need to really try to fit them in.



eclein said:


> Podster! Is that the Shan.M0?
> Does it sound good?
> 
> ThanosD: I currently have that black case and fit my KZS5 & BA10 iems in it. My little plastic latch thingys are very
> ...


When trying to remove the clasp, they are very stiff, at a point where you are afraid of either breaking the clasp, or your nail. Also the clasps are held just by a thin plastic join, which is prone to breaking in the future. But for 1.5€, why care?


----------



## Rhino73

Slater said:


> These are my favorite “large” cases. As you mentioned, they aren’t as secure clasping or water proof (I don’t need water proof audio gear anyways). But they are a good balance of low cost with large size, and provide adequate protection. Plus the including foam lining is great for using on earphone mods (such as BA and nozzle mods).



Any chance you guys could post a different link? For some reason I'm getting a browser fart-back -  "this domain is unreachable".


----------



## ThanosD (Oct 22, 2018)

Rhino73 said:


> Any chance you guys could post a different link? For some reason I'm getting a browser fart-back -  "this domain is unreachable".


Try this one (https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/h5ivykC)

Edit: for some reason the link is leading to the main Ali home page. Anyway, the case is the one the other member posted below, just on Ali is for about 1.5€, instead of 2.5


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

Rhino73 said:


> Any chance you guys could post a different link? For some reason I'm getting a browser fart-back -  "this domain is unreachable".



I'm sure this one!
https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605419.html?wid=1433363


----------



## eclein

Hey guys..I’m Ed....Howdy!
Just felt like introducing myself....

The Comply Comfort tips are wht finally worked with BA10s I have. I usually try Spinfits first but my left ear was like “no wayl.
I still get the detail and high end .....
Those new KZ ZSNs look great ...the silver and purple will be mine! Thanks for that info!

I gotta say these BA10s are every bit as good as my 64 audio U4SE which cost like 5 times more....the 64s are awesome and super comfy to wear but sound very close to the BAs which have more detailed. 
Will I be hung for writing that?


----------



## Podster (Oct 22, 2018)

eclein said:


> Podster! Is that the Shan.M0?
> Does it sound good?
> 
> ThanosD: I currently have that black case and fit my KZS5 & BA10 iems in it. My little plastic latch thingys are very
> ...



It is and yes it does, does not really need an amp but Pod's infatuated with amps Gives me something else to talk to people about when they see it, MO's a real chick getter (works double for the ladies on a man) They (the ladies) are like that's just so cute and dudes are like "really, I can get my entire music library on that little thing LOL

@ThanosD  I've got a couple of those cases however I've never used mine for iem's I actually have DAP/AMP combos in mine! This is Pod's favorite large iem case









@eclein I personally like your honesty and feelings about the BA-10's, been waiting to hear something like this to order mine


----------



## Podster (Oct 22, 2018)

eclein said:


> Podster! Is that the Shan.M0?
> Does it sound good?
> 
> ThanosD: I currently have that black case and fit my KZS5 & BA10 iems in it. My little plastic latch thingys are very
> ...





All the positive press around here has driven the suggested retail on the BA-10 over $100! I see the KZ store is offering them at $64 in a 10% down pre-sale They are even saying the suggested retail is now $129 Think I'd rather just order a $76 pair from the unmentionable store


----------



## ThanosD (Oct 22, 2018)

Podster said:


> @ThanosD  I've got a couple of those cases however I've never used mine for iem's I actually have DAP/AMP combos in mine! This is Pod's favorite large iem case


Hmm, interesting use. I guess these could hold up to a Shanling M2s, or a Fiio M7 alone, but an amp and a Dap, that's pretty impressive. I guess you are using a small amp, so that it could fit with the m0.


----------



## phrancini

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> I'm sure this one!
> https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_605419.html?wid=1433363


This seems the same one, without that lousy sricker and cheaper https://m-it.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_469344.html?wid=1433363


----------



## Podster

Yeah, or even an M3s (Oops Pod's even got the Jazz amp on this one too) Actually listening to it now but with the other guys iem's (TFZ Series 2 SE's) Now I do listen to all my KZ's on it


----------



## eggnogg

ZS10 reshell in the making


Spoiler: step-by-step



pics taken from: twitter.com/Gesu_audio1108/media


----------



## pbui44

eggnogg said:


> ZS10 reshell in the making
> 
> 
> Spoiler: step-by-step
> ...



How much for the reshell and how does your custom ZS10 sound now?


----------



## eggnogg

pbui44 said:


> your custom ZS10



this is not mine, my post mentioned the respected twitter source.


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> Are there mods for the BA10s already or am I misreading Slaters post?



My post regarding the BA foam mod can be applied to ANY IEM with BA drivers.

As far as tuning the BA10, I can’t remember if it was the BA10 or the AS10, but I remember someone had recently posted how they were tinkering with stuffing dampening material in various holes of the plastic “guide housing” down inside the nozzle. They used cotton I believe. I think they were still trying to identify which “hole” corresponded to which driver, with the idea being able to tweak a certain frequency range by dampening that particular hole in the plastic housing.

When I get home later tonight, I’ll look around and see if I can find that post.


----------



## phrancini

Slater said:


> The KZ case I have (the ABS see-thru Pelican style ones) are too small to be useful.



Damn. I should have asked. I ordered 4 of them..


----------



## Makahl (Oct 22, 2018)

eggnogg said:


> ZS10 reshell in the making
> 
> 
> Spoiler: step-by-step
> ...




wow what a nice project! I was trying to do something similar using ZS3's housing but I was struggling w/ the DD part, but after seeing this product it should be a lot easier now:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Con...l?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.10.4ae04910mEVusa

Also, I've seen something less complex using tubes but I have no idea the know how:


>


----------



## B9Scrambler

Got some pics of the ZSN up on my Instagram for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/the_contraptionist/

Sound wise they're nothing new if you're familiar with KZ hybrids. Still good though. The build is why you buy these. Omg they feel amazing. The updated cable is nice too. Preformed ear guides and the new 2-pin connectors are tops. Old upgrade cables work with it too.


----------



## 1clearhead

B9Scrambler said:


> Got some pics of the ZSN up on my Instagram for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/the_contraptionist/
> 
> Sound wise they're nothing new if you're familiar with KZ hybrids. Still good though. The build is why you buy these. Omg they feel amazing. The updated cable is nice too. Preformed ear guides and the new 2-pin connectors are tops. Old upgrade cables work with it too.


+1 I also bought them for the build quality myself. 

How is the sound signature? Is it v or u-shape, balanced, neutral? Does it have good sub-bass or treble extension?


----------



## Zerohour88

Phantomize said:


> Would you guys recommend the Tin Audio T2 (also in regard to other KZ options?)? And if so, is this a correct link for one (seeing as it is way cheaper than on other stores): link
> 
> Edit: Changed link to normal desktop link.



depends, do you like balanced sound signature? then its a great bargain at $27 (no idea on how that pre-order thing will work out due to 11.11). Some might comment that its bass-shy, but its more quality over quantity.



B9Scrambler said:


> Got some pics of the ZSN up on my Instagram for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/the_contraptionist/
> 
> Sound wise they're nothing new if you're familiar with KZ hybrids. Still good though. The build is why you buy these. Omg they feel amazing. The updated cable is nice too. Preformed ear guides and the new 2-pin connectors are tops. Old upgrade cables work with it too.



par for the course then, saw the pics of an actual unit and was immediately overcome with the desire to order (lucky 11.11 is so close). Can't wait to see some comparisons


----------



## Naim.F.C

Anyone know what diameter size the tips of the AS10 are? What are the recommended foam tips for it?


----------



## eggnogg

Naim.F.C said:


> diameter size the tips of the AS10



tis could help


Spoiler: []


----------



## Naim.F.C

eggnogg said:


> tis could help
> 
> 
> Spoiler: []



So should I opt for the AIR 2 or AIR 1 foam eartips? I don't want a situation where they come out in my ears, instead I want them to fit snuggly and tightly on to the earphone tips.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> My post regarding the BA foam mod can be applied to ANY IEM with BA drivers.
> 
> As far as tuning the BA10, I can’t remember if it was the BA10 or the AS10, but I remember someone had recently posted how they were tinkering with stuffing dampening material in various holes of the plastic “guide housing” down inside the nozzle. They used cotton I believe. I think they were still trying to identify which “hole” corresponded to which driver, with the idea being able to tweak a certain frequency range by dampening that particular hole in the plastic housing.
> 
> When I get home later tonight, I’ll look around and see if I can find that post.



Yeah, that was me. If I remember correctly, it was the chamber with BAs that was most visible. The top one that was recessed slightly was the highs. It ended up sounding decent with the mod although I did end up return the BA10 and AS10 due to wanting to own something other than the traditional V shape. I wish I had tried them with the symbos tips but did try the Comply. I ended up going with a more W shaped iem (specifically the Fiio FH5) after trying the KZ & TFZ flagships. I just ordered the controversial IMR R1 last week. That will be interesting for sure. Still looking forward to what KZ has in store for us because the BA10 and AS10 did sound really good. Would love to see something like them refined even further. I think it's pretty amazing they got such good sound from all BA models so quickly. Quite impressive really


----------



## sino8r

B9Scrambler said:


> Got some pics of the ZSN up on my Instagram for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/the_contraptionist/
> 
> Sound wise they're nothing new if you're familiar with KZ hybrids. Still good though. The build is why you buy these. Omg they feel amazing. The updated cable is nice too. Preformed ear guides and the new 2-pin connectors are tops. Old upgrade cables work with it too.



I wish all the future KZ's had this shape. Can you imagine if the AS10s were shaped like this? Love the outer contours like TFZ. They almost resemble Queens. Those were the most comfortable iems I've ever used. How do they sound? Is there a KZ model you would compare them to?


----------



## zern_c

eggnogg said:


> ZS10 reshell in the making
> 
> 
> Spoiler: step-by-step
> ...




The concept is great, but I would expect the sound to be quite different. The zs10 in its original plastic case does not use acoustic tubing but in the custom shell i would expect the use of acoustic tubing. The internal diameter of the acoustic tubing along with tube length can dampen or amplify the frequency response especially in the HF region. Perhaps we could use the tubing to tune the zs10 even further to our liking


----------



## silver27

Zerohour88 said:


> depends, do you like balanced sound signature? then its a great bargain at $27 (no idea on how that pre-order thing will work out due to 11.11). Some might comment that its bass-shy, but its more quality over quantity.
> 
> 
> 
> par for the course then, saw the pics of an actual unit and was immediately overcome with the desire to order (lucky 11.11 is so close). Can't wait to see some comparisons



How's the isolation though? Are they as good or better than the ZS3s?


----------



## Zerohour88

silver27 said:


> How's the isolation though? Are they as good or better than the ZS3s?



the T2? hm...it has average isolation from what I can remember. The form factor and the fact its vented doesn't really help isolation, so you'll need higher volume to drown out loud noise around you. ZS3 definitely has better isolation (if it fits your ears, that is)


----------



## Phantomize

Zerohour88 said:


> depends, do you like balanced sound signature? then its a great bargain at $27 (no idea on how that pre-order thing will work out due to 11.11). Some might comment that its bass-shy, but its more quality over quantity.



Great, thanks for the info! I haven't really tried a more balanced set of IEMs so I'll probably buy these to try some.


----------



## NeonHD

Guys I found the KZ ED2/EDR2/EDR1 selling for as low as $3 on Ali 







It's branded as 'TOMKAS' but I think it's just the KZ ED2. I doubt there are any fakes.


----------



## Tunaa

*HELP !!
*
Guys i received my AS10s today. Bought them on aliexpress. They came in a sealed box but right side of AS10 has defective lip. The nozzle part the mesh is not accurate. But sound is OK. Im confused should i open a dispute?


----------



## Yesin

The right side of my ZS3 stopped working today. The same side where the mic and control button is; I noticed it stopped working after I pressed the mic button to pause music, when I resumed back only the left side started playing. I'm pretty disappointed since it barely lasted 1.5 years of occasional use (about an hour 4 times a week). Seems like many ZS3 owners on this thread had the same experience. It was a great sounding pair of earphones for the price...while it lasted 

Could anyone please recommend a worthy replacement for the ZS3?


----------



## Zerohour88

Yesin said:


> The right side of my ZS3 stopped working today. The same side where the mic and control button is; I noticed it stopped working after I pressed the mic button to pause music, when I resumed back only the left side started playing. I'm pretty disappointed since it barely lasted 1.5 years of occasional use (about an hour 4 times a week). Seems like many ZS3 owners on this thread had the same experience. It was a great sounding pair of earphones for the price...while it lasted
> 
> Could anyone please recommend a worthy replacement for the ZS3?



tried switching the earpiece around to see if its just the cable or the IEM? 1.5 years is quite decent for a 15 bux or so IEM? I've had more expensive IEMs fall apart faster than that


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Guys I found the KZ ED2/EDR2/EDR1 selling for as low as $3 on Ali
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The EDR2 is silver. The EDR1 and EDSE are black.

Unfortunately, there’s no way to know which one of the 2 that is. There’s a risk it’s the EDSE, which isn’t nearly as good as the EDR1.

If it was me, I would rather not take the risk. You can get the real deal ESR1 all day long for $3:

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/JzYQ9HQ

There’s also a seller that sells them in a 5-pack, and they work out to be $2.30 each.


----------



## Slater

Yesin said:


> The right side of my ZS3 stopped working today. The same side where the mic and control button is; I noticed it stopped working after I pressed the mic button to pause music, when I resumed back only the left side started playing. I'm pretty disappointed since it barely lasted 1.5 years of occasional use (about an hour 4 times a week). Seems like many ZS3 owners on this thread had the same experience. It was a great sounding pair of earphones for the price...while it lasted
> 
> Could anyone please recommend a worthy replacement for the ZS3?



KZ had a defective batch of ZS3, and it’s been about 1-1.5 years now. My bet is yours came from that batch 

If you like the fit and sound of the ZS3, my recommendation would be the ZS4. It’s basically the ZS3 on steroids.

Otherwise, if you are willing to spend a bit more, the TRN V80 would be a significant upgrade to the ZS3 and the ZS4. I just got a set, and wow the hype is totally justified on them.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> The EDR2 is silver. The EDR1 and EDSE are black.
> 
> Unfortunately, there’s no way to know which one of the 2 that is. There’s a risk it’s the EDSE, which isn’t nearly as good as the EDR1.
> 
> ...



These KZs are a great and sensible entrance to this world. Even the EDSE is excellent compared to most 9.99 brand-named IEMs out there. I use them to "evangelize" heathens to the KZ church, putting their names and addresses on GB or AE and waiting for them to receive a package on the mail.


----------



## drawun

kubin2984 said:


> i'm getting a ZSN Silver Purple too, from Tmall .


Do you mind sharing the link? Not really confident myself to search through Taobao and co.


----------



## phrancini

drawun said:


> Do you mind sharing the link? Not really confident myself to search through Taobao and co.



I got mine from GearBest if that works for 
https://gearbest.app.link/yHwddLqsfR


----------



## 1clearhead

drawun said:


> Do you mind sharing the link? Not really confident myself to search through Taobao and co.


I happened to see them on TMALL today, here's the link...

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...=2&is_b=1&rn=04abe5cc65f5305ce1a281d8daeddeea


----------



## tuanathon

I ordered a TRN BT3 and specified the 0.75 version for my ES4. I received the item, but the box says 0.78 on it. the vendor insist that the "so-called 0.75mm version is the same as the 0.78mm version." Should i believe him?


----------



## sino8r

tuanathon said:


> I ordered a TRN BT3 and specified the 0.75 version for my ES4. I received the item, but the box says 0.78 on it. the vendor insist that the "so-called 0.75mm version is the same as the 0.78mm version." Should i believe him?



They are pretty much interchangeable. If the cable is .75mm and the iem is .78, you might have to open the pins slightly wider. Otherwise, it shouldn't be an issue. I have several cables and iems with both sizes and all the 2 pins fit with little problems.


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2018)

tuanathon said:


> I ordered a TRN BT3 and specified the 0.75 version for my ES4. I received the item, but the box says 0.78 on it. the vendor insist that the "so-called 0.75mm version is the same as the 0.78mm version." Should i believe him?



I wouldn’t sweat it friend.

I think the difference in offerings was simply intended to get hit results for those people searching for both choices on Aliexpress.

For example, I often see listings on Aliexpress (eBay, etc) for “KZ ZS3 earphones ZS4”, when the seller is only selling the ZS3. It’s because they want people searching for ZS3 AND ZS4 to find their listing (and potentially buy them assuming they are the same model).

I’m not saying it’s right to advertise a 0.78 and 0.75 when in reality they are all 1 size. There are plenty of HeadFiers that use both sizes interchangeably on gear.

In my experience, it doesn’t really seem to hurt anything (on the cable or the IEM) to use them interchangeably. Especially if you realized just how small 0.03mm really is.


----------



## C2thew

Yesin said:


> The right side of my ZS3 stopped working today. The same side where the mic and control button is; I noticed it stopped working after I pressed the mic button to pause music, when I resumed back only the left side started playing. I'm pretty disappointed since it barely lasted 1.5 years of occasional use (about an hour 4 times a week). Seems like many ZS3 owners on this thread had the same experience. It was a great sounding pair of earphones for the price...while it lasted
> 
> Could anyone please recommend a worthy replacement for the ZS3?



The stock cable with microphone also stopped working on mine.  The cable just deteriorates over time.  It's not too bad to just buy a replacement cable for $4 on aliexpress which is what I did.  Otherwise you can always upgrade to the ZS4 which is a really nice improvement to the ZS3.  As Slater stated: ZS3 on steroids.

I am intrigued by the TRN v80 though since slater mentioned it.  Though i'm kind of satisfied with my ZS10 and ZS4 setup as it is now since the ZS4 fits my running needs perfectly for the fit and isolation.


----------



## khighly

I see no real world use for the TRN BT10. Because the pins have no 'cut out' for the KZ style connector, these could easily fall off when walking around with them not in your ears, something I haven't had proper MMCX do with my IT03's and Mee Audio BT cable, even when running to catch buses. Battery life is definitely not 8 hours, seems similar 5-6 hours like my Mee Audio. Cable is also extremely long, I'm not sure who has a neck length as long as the wire they give you.

It does do advertised aptX and does it well, but BT 4.2 support is not known. It says BT 4.1 on the back of the box, then BT 4.2 in the included paper manual.


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> Got some pics of the ZSN up on my Instagram for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/the_contraptionist/
> *Sound wise they're nothing new if you're familiar with KZ hybrids.* Still good though. The build is why you buy these. Omg they feel amazing. The updated cable is nice too. Preformed ear guides and the new 2-pin connectors are tops. Old upgrade cables work with it too.


That`s what I thought. Wont order them but darn they look HQ and gorgeous!


----------



## eclein

I’m waiting on delivery of TRN V80’s, I found them for $23 and went for it. They look sharp and apparently sound good........we’ll see.


----------



## willjie90 (Oct 23, 2018)

To my ears they are V-shaped and can be a little intense to listen to, but I am not a competent reviewer so take my words with a grain of salt. But that build quality is phenomenal! Below 20€ for this build quality is a no brainer


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I see no real world use for the TRN BT10. Because the pins have no 'cut out' for the KZ style connector, these could easily fall off when walking around with them not in your ears, something I haven't had proper MMCX do with my IT03's and Mee Audio BT cable, even when running to catch buses. Battery life is definitely not 8 hours, seems similar 5-6 hours like my Mee Audio. Cable is also extremely long, I'm not sure who has a neck length as long as the wire they give you.
> 
> It does do advertised aptX and does it well, but BT 4.2 support is not known. It says BT 4.1 on the back of the box, then BT 4.2 in the included paper manual.



Mine very tight, and have no danger of falling off (no more than a KZ cable).

I do agree, the charge lasts nowhere near 8 hours. I get about 6, but that is still very respectable.

The wire length doesn’t really bother me. I think it wasn’t designed that way for long necks but rather being comfortable while turning your head. The length seems pretty average for these types of ‘neckband’ Bluetooth devices.

In all honesty, I am more excited about the true wireless version TRN is releasing soon.


----------



## Slater

willjie90 said:


> To my ears they are V-shaped and can be a little intense to listen to but I am not a competent reviewer so take my words with a grain of salt. But that build quality is phenomenal! Below 20€ for this build quality is a no brainer



They sure do look good.

Has anyone taken the back cover off and had a look underneath? I’m curious what is hiding under there...


----------



## Podster (Oct 23, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> These KZs are a great and sensible entrance to this world. Even the EDSE is excellent compared to most 9.99 brand-named IEMs out there. I use them to "evangelize" heathens to the KZ church, putting their names and addresses on GB or AE and waiting for them to receive a package on the mail.



Man, where were you when I started collecting KZ's!!! LOL Wish you would have sent me these






@Slater  Seriously LOL X 2 Could not hep mesef






@sino8r , well you are half right! It's OK to stretch .75 pin holes for a .78 but once they are streched to .78 you are not going to get a tight fit with a .75 cable eva again. I found this out with an ex-girlfriend 1st hand


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2018)

Podster said:


> Man, where were you when I started collecting KZ's!!! LOL Wish you would have sent me these
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh I meant to see how much extra space is inside the shell. I’m looking for a donor shell to do a Knowles triple BA driver transplant into.

Thanks for posting the photo  From the exploded rendering you posted it looks like a pretty tight fit.

I’ll probably stick to my original plan of using the Tiandirenhe TD08 metal shell.

As a side note, I’ve never seen that green KZ driver before. Anyone know anything about it? @CoiL?


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Oh I meant to see how much extra space is inside the shell. I’m looking for a donor shell to do a Knowles triple BA driver transplant into.
> 
> Thanks for posting the photo  From the exploded rendering you posted it looks like a pretty tight fit.
> 
> ...



Eyes just pullin' yer leg Good luck on that 3 BA DIY Pretty sure that green driver is KZ idea of what color transferred to the driver off that shell


----------



## sino8r

Podster said:


> Man, where were you when I started collecting KZ's!!! LOL Wish you would have sent me these
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's true! I usually use the aftermarket cables and TRN bluetooth so all my .75mm are stretched out probably. And yes, that's what she said (a little of "The Office" humor lol)


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> Mine very tight, and have no danger of falling off (no more than a KZ cable).
> 
> I do agree, the charge lasts nowhere near 8 hours. I get about 6, but that is still very respectable.
> 
> ...



I lost one side of my ZS6 due to KZ's connector with a bluetooth headset, definitely not chancing it again!

I like the Mee Audio cable I have. It's all wire, but it has a bit where you can "pinch" together the cable to make it shorter and perfectly fit around your neck. I wear it during meetings, hidden by my long hair, and nobody knows.


----------



## Podster

sino8r said:


> That's true! I usually use the aftermarket cables and TRN bluetooth so all my .75mm are stretched out probably. And yes, that's what she said (a little of "The Office" humor lol)



Yeah, if I hear bust out laughing in my house 9 times out of 10 someones watching the office

Awesome pic @Wiljen , that's the color option I have ordered I believe


----------



## Trebor1966

tuanathon said:


> I ordered a TRN BT3 and specified the 0.75 version for my ES4. I received the item, but the box says 0.78 on it. the vendor insist that the "so-called 0.75mm version is the same as the 0.78mm version." Should i believe him?


At AliExpress the vendor VS Audio Store told me the same story


----------



## Podster

As far as I know KZ only made a very limited run of any .78 cable before they realized they needed to standardize on the .75 and I'm sure it was purely based on cost savings. At least that's what this old Ding Dong thinks


----------



## Wiljen

Podster said:


> Yeah, if I hear bust out laughing in my house 9 times out of 10 someones watching the office
> 
> Awesome pic @Wiljen , that's the color option I have ordered I believe



sorry dude, not me


----------



## Podster

Wiljen said:


> sorry dude, not me



My apologies Sir, guess I got in a hurry 

Guess I owe @willjie90 an apology too Still a great pic


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 23, 2018)

Finding a cable too long just fold up and tape as long as it is a: data and b: low power but not full electrical or you burn them out ( becomes a transformer). Top tip never use roll up extensions unless fully unwound.


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> As far as I know KZ only made a very limited run of any .78 cable before they realized they needed to standardize on the .75 and I'm sure it was purely based on cost savings. At least that's what this old Ding Dong thinks


I once got a kz with a 0.78 cable that wouldn't fit the holes. Don't remember now which one it was, but I believe it was my glossy ZS3. Has to file the pins so they would fit.


----------



## Podster

Yes, I do think it was like the first run of ZS3’s that it happened too. They took a lot of immediate heat in hear and the next batch had .75!


----------



## groucho69

Podster said:


> Man, where were you when I started collecting KZ's!!! LOL Wish you would have sent me these
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I'm certainly not going to say it.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Any word on fit with the ZSN? ZST is the most comfortable KZ hybrid for me personally. If the sound is an upgrade and the fit is similar, I would purchase these ASAP. They look spectacular!


----------



## paulindss

The trn Bluetooth cable are compatible with ed16 ?


----------



## tuanathon

Trebor1966 said:


> At AliExpress the vendor VS Audio Store told me the same story



I didnt want to name the vendor but that was the same vendor i purchased from. Have you tried it yet?


----------



## Slater (Oct 23, 2018)

Podster said:


> Yes, I do think it was like the first run of ZS3’s that it happened too. They took a lot of immediate heat in hear and the next batch had .75!



That never made sense to me. Why would KZ want to change it in such a small/minor way (0.03mm)? Especially when 0.78mm was the industry standard.

That's like a car manufacturer taking heat from customers because they released a car with round wheels, forcing them to release the next batch with square wheels.





Sure, square wheels technically work, but round wheels are the standard; round wheels are good. 0.78mm is the standard; 0.78mm is good.


----------



## kukkurovaca

Slater said:


> That never made sense to me. Why would KZ want to change it in such a small/minor way (0.03mm)? Especially when 0.78mm was the industry standard.
> 
> That's like a car manufacturer taking heat from customers because they released a car with round wheels, forcing them to release the next batch with square wheels.
> 
> ...



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1537100752/shark-wheel-the-square-skateboarding-wheel-that-sh


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> The EDR2 is silver. The EDR1 and EDSE are black.
> 
> Unfortunately, there’s no way to know which one of the 2 that is. There’s a risk it’s the EDSE, which isn’t nearly as good as the EDR1.
> 
> ...



Ah okay thanks for the link, bought one cause it's so damn cheap.


----------



## blur.png

my friend is asking for an earphone recommendation , his pick is around the edr series, now should i pick the edr2 or edr1 ?


----------



## Podster

Just wait until they make Shark Wheels for Formula 1!


----------



## Slater

blur.png said:


> my friend is asking for an earphone recommendation , his pick is around the edr series, now should i pick the edr2 or edr1 ?



Between those 2, go with the EDR1.


----------



## antdroid (Oct 23, 2018)

I had written a review on the KZ BA10 a while back (posted earlier on this thread) and it wasn't very flattering. I had complained about comfort and it sounding dark, yet very treble sharp, and just wonky.

Well, for whatever reason, I received a new set of BA10s today in the mail completely out of the blue along with another IEM I was expecting to review (Tenhz P4 Pro). I decided to give the BA10 another listen since it showed up.

It still fits terribly. I felt pain almost immediately in my left ear and very soon after in my right ear, and looking back at my review a month ago, this also occurred.

The stock tips fit the best and provided the best "comfort", however, again, they had the weird dark tonality and very harsh upper mids and treble. Like daggers jabbing you in the ear.

I decided to quickly tip-roll like I did before. I tried a new silicone-hybrid (foam+silicone) tip I made a couple weeks ago and it fit well as well but they were SUPER bright. Very harsh, yet still had over-done bass. (i.e. V-Shaped -- not my thing)

I then tried a set of Rebound foam tips and they sounded more balanced. But fit was terrible. Pain was immediate on both ears, but at least they sounded more U-Shaped. The treble was still very sharp, very peaky, and over-done. Bass was toned down surprisingly though. But again, I can see why people may like it because it is very detailed, but I found it too bright and that's coming from me who likes brighter headphones.

In the end, they are KZ's signature V-shape. I just don't think I am a fan.


Anyway, I could consider upping my score again on this very quick re-listen. I still find the treble to be a tad too boosted, which helps the details but still makes it slightly sharp and could be fatiguing.

Seems like it is very, very tip dependent, more so than any other IEM I've ever tried.

My source is the Topping DX7 balanced amp with balanced cable and iFi IEMatch.


----------



## MrMajony

the kz zs5 v2 are at $ 15 on aliexpress, do you think they are still a good option today?


----------



## Trebor1966 (Oct 24, 2018)

tuanathon said:


> I didnt want to name the vendor but that was the same vendor i purchased from. Have you tried it yet?


 This seller is definitely not legit - i don't use it for TRN phone because afterwards the contact will be widden and the original 2 Pin 0,75mm size will be loose.
I started a dispute but lost it with the statement from AliExpress "Seller did not describe that the earphone cable he sold is 0.75mm"
Be aware that this is definitely wrong - 0,78mm is used for example for Westone
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/TRN-...665.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.71904c4dmPUDnW

TRN still produces both dimensions


----------



## hakuzen

antdroid said:


> I had written a review on the KZ BA10 a while back (posted earlier on this thread) and it wasn't very flattering. I had complained about comfort and it sounding dark, yet very treble sharp, and just wonky.
> 
> Well, for whatever reason, I received a new set of BA10s today in the mail completely out of the blue along with another IEM I was expecting to review (Tenhz P4 Pro). I decided to give the BA10 another listen since it showed up.
> 
> ...


i've just received a 2nd unit of AS10. tried balanced out of the box, and this unit seems to have less mid-bass than 1st unit. better.
but i'll have to measure both with same gear to confirm it and discard brain/gear influence.
anyway, i can't listen to AS10 at loud volume. and it's not due to treble, because it has big highs roll-off. maybe upper mids.. i need to set up my measurement rig asap..



MrMajony said:


> the kz zs5 v2 are at $ 15 on aliexpress, do you think they are still a good option today?


yes, they are very similar to ZS6, but plastic shell. just take in count the treble peaks. if they bother you, search in this thread for @Slater 's and others' mods, and/or check about zs6 here.


----------



## DocHoliday

eclein said:


> Are there mods for the BA10s already or am I misreading Slaters post?





Podster said:


> It is and yes it does, does not really need an amp but Pod's infatuated with amps Gives me something else to talk to people about when they see it, MO's a real chick getter (works double for the ladies on a man) They (the ladies) are like that's just so cute and dudes are like "really, I can get my entire music library on that little thing LOL
> 
> @ThanosD  I've got a couple of those cases however I've never used mine for iem's I actually have DAP/AMP combos in mine! This is Pod's favorite large iem case
> 
> ...





antdroid said:


> I had written a review on the KZ BA10 a while back (posted earlier on this thread) and it wasn't very flattering. I had complained about comfort and it sounding dark, yet very treble sharp, and just wonky.
> 
> Well, for whatever reason, I received a new set of BA10s today in the mail completely out of the blue along with another IEM I was expecting to review (Tenhz P4 Pro). I decided to give the BA10 another listen since it showed up.
> 
> ...




BA10 review:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ba10-knowledge-zenith.23310/reviews#review-21062


----------



## willjie90

Podster said:


> My apologies Sir, guess I got in a hurry
> 
> Guess I owe @willjie90 an apology too Still a great pic



No apology needed  I really love how elegant the black colour is. Great choice


----------



## TLDRonin

Now we know the ZSN are the real deal build wise, but how are they sounding?


----------



## Mellowship

TLDRonin said:


> Now we know the ZSN are the real deal build wise, but how are they sounding?


I would wait for the typical new-KZ-hype-this-one-is-the-best-KZ-off-all-times to settle...


----------



## Zerohour88

Mellowship said:


> I would wait for the typical new-KZ-hype-this-one-is-the-best-KZ-off-all-times to settle...



you're a bit late to the dead-horse-beating session


----------



## queerquirks

which of their models is a good upgrade from the ATR? 
I prefer ATR's warmish balanced sound vs the ZS3 which had great sound sig too but bass was too heavy and abit dark


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> BA10 review:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ba10-knowledge-zenith.23310/reviews#review-21062



Great review Doc, you and B9 really brought my expectations around on the BA-10 and if I pick a pair up I'll give the Slater mod a try as well

@Mellowship , people hype KZ products IMHO at the going price for most KZ products hyping is easy My 17 year old son said to me this morning his current iem's are the second best iem I've ever given him right after the 3 pair of TA Techne's he managed to kill (mind you had TA put removable cables on them he would still be on his first pair because they went through more clothes washings than any other iem I've ever known and always came out sounding clean as eva, pun intended) but to get to his second fave it's his black ED9's which as we know will also die the cable death at some point from not having removable ones


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 24, 2018)

Podster said:


> Great review Doc, you and B9 really brought my expectations around on the BA-10 and if I pick a pair up I'll give the Slater mod a try as well
> 
> @Mellowship , people hype KZ products IMHO at the going price for most KZ products hyping is easy My 17 year old son said to me this morning his current iem's are the second best iem I've ever given him right after the 3 pair of TA Techne's he managed to kill (mind you had TA put removable cables on them he would still be on his first pair because they went through more clothes washings than any other iem I've ever known and always came out sounding clean as eva, pun intended) but to get to his second fave it's his black ED9's which as we know will also die the cable death at some point from not having removable ones



Thanks Pod. I had to do the latter two thirds of the review on my phone, which was tedious due to having to piece things together from my "memo" app. I'd forgotten to insert the soundstage portion so I just edited the review and added it. 

It's well built and I like the sound signature. I know that there is a ton of Chi-Fi to choose from with never-ending price drops. There is more competition everyday but the truth is that even at full retail the build quality and sound signature of the BA10 is still a great value proposition, provided that your ears are either medium or large. It has the typical KZ price-to-performance ratio even at the $80+/- asking price.

I paid $50 a pop for my first two ZS6's and I still think that I got a great deal at those prices. Two years ago Best Buy was selling the Sony XB50 for $50 a pop and they certainly did not have detachable/replaceable cables. My $50 ZS6 walks all over the $50 XB50. The ZS6 is currently $33 and now I have a 5-BA model at $80. KZ pricing is absurdly laughable. I love it.

Btw, that "Slater Mod" improves things, too.






B9 likes the AS10 more so I have to get the AS10 now; it's gnawing at me.


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Great review Doc, you and B9 really brought my expectations around on the BA-10 and if I pick a pair up I'll give the Slater mod a try as well
> 
> @Mellowship , people hype KZ products IMHO at the going price for most KZ products hyping is easy My 17 year old son said to me this morning his current iem's are the second best iem I've ever given him right after the 3 pair of TA Techne's he managed to kill (mind you had TA put removable cables on them he would still be on his first pair because they went through more clothes washings than any other iem I've ever known and always came out sounding clean as eva, pun intended) but to get to his second fave it's his black ED9's which as we know will also die the cable death at some point from not having removable ones



I wasn't talking about hyping kz products, but over-hyping a new model and then when more members buy it, it is not so good after all... 
I am glad to have skipped from zs5v1 to as10, because I believe I wouldn't have nothing to write home about from all models within. 
As for the brand, I am forever grateful for all the music I have listened through all my kzs.


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> I wasn't talking about hyping kz products, but over-hyping a new model and then when more members buy it, it is not so good after all...
> I am glad to have skipped from zs5v1 to as10, because I believe I wouldn't have nothing to write home about from all models within.
> As for the brand, I am forever grateful for all the music I have listened through all my kzs.



I knew what you meant, but we also know who the excitable ones are around here too Nice collection I too started around the time of the Rings (I see you have the ED line covered) I've not bought any of the circuit board models as I think they look terrible (AS-10) but that is just me and my taste which has nothing to do with sound quality. (I know B9 likes his like those too) but just not my cup of tea. I have to say KZ has been consistent and have steadily improved through time and other Chi-fi's have not, sadly some of that is rooted in negative hype around here It amazes me how critical some have become with bargain Chi-Fi when so many absolutely kill in the $10 to $20 range


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> I knew what you meant, but we also know who the excitable ones are around here too Nice collection I too started around the time of the Rings (I see you have the ED line covered) I've not bought any of the circuit board models as I think they look terrible (AS-10) but that is just me and my taste which has nothing to do with sound quality. (I know B9 likes his like those too) but just not my cup of tea. I have to say KZ has been consistent and have steadily improved through time and other Chi-fi's have not, sadly some of that is rooted in negative hype around here It amazes me how critical some have become with bargain Chi-Fi when so many absolutely kill in the $10 to $20 range


The only ones I really disliked I gave away, sold or gave wife to use at the gym, namely and respectively, the ATR, ED12 and HDS1. And yes they kill in the range up to 30 USD. The ie80 is the odd one around, very likable but scarcely praised. 
I still use the ATE on a regular basis, a very romantic sound signature.
But there past days is the AS10 and sometimes the ZS4. 
You should listen to the as10, maybe you get some way to cover up the aesthetic aspects you don't like about them.


----------



## Podster (Oct 24, 2018)

Gave my then 13 year old my ED12's and he loved them (I'm sure it was just for the bass) but I actually use my ATR's with a nice balanced SP cable on my Opus #1 I've also been known to sleep in my HDS1's while travelling





Now the ES4 as I've said many times is everything the ES3 should have been and I love mine





Maybe I can hire "Short Dog" of Iron Resurrection to paint an AS-10 for me LOL

My actual fave with the ZSR is the Walnut combo, the ambiance of V2 with it's sweet almost analog SS brings out the best the ZSR can do IMOBetter stated as "Slam Dunk'in your Donuts" (Tips)


----------



## kukkurovaca

This is a bit OT, sorry, but I know some folks in this thread make their own DIY versions of Symbio eartips. Does anybody have a how-to link, etc.? Can one just remove the core from a foam eartip and stuff it inside a silicone one, or is the process more involved? (I did a search and saw that one person is using a leather punch with foam earplug material, not sure if there are other ways to go about it.)


----------



## Slater

kukkurovaca said:


> This is a bit OT, sorry, but I know some folks in this thread make their own DIY versions of Symbio eartips. Does anybody have a how-to link, etc.? Can one just remove the core from a foam eartip and stuff it inside a silicone one, or is the process more involved? (I did a search and saw that one person is using a leather punch with foam earplug material, not sure if there are other ways to go about it.)



The earplug method is the ideal way. I’ve tried to take apart regular foam earplugs and it doesn’t work.

The foam earplugs are soooo cheap too. You can buy a box full of them for a few dollars. I get mine from Harbir Freight - I think a box of 100 pairs is $5.

While the leather punch is the easiest way, I’be made them using a hole punch (for paper) too. You could also use a small scrap piece of metal tubing, and just sand or grind a sharp edge in the end.


----------



## kukkurovaca

Slater said:


> The earplug method is the ideal way. I’ve tried to take apart regular foam earplugs and it doesn’t work.
> 
> The foam earplugs are soooo cheap too. You can buy a box full of them for a few dollars. I get mine from Harbir Freight - I think a box of 100 pairs is $5.
> 
> While the leather punch is the easiest way, I’be made them using a hole punch (for paper) too. You could also use a small scrap piece of metal tubing, and just sand or grind a sharp edge in the end.



Thanks!


----------



## hakuzen

kukkurovaca said:


> This is a bit OT, sorry, but I know some folks in this thread make their own DIY versions of Symbio eartips. Does anybody have a how-to link, etc.? Can one just remove the core from a foam eartip and stuff it inside a silicone one, or is the process more involved? (I did a search and saw that one person is using a leather punch with foam earplug material, not sure if there are other ways to go about it.)


if you want to choose your specific type of foam, you can diy them easily. my how-to.
if you want to make them even easier, you can get this kind of foams (no silicon tube inside). just trim (cut) bottom part to get desired length, and fit into silicone tips.


----------



## kukkurovaca

hakuzen said:


> if you want to choose your specific type of foam, you can diy them easily. my how-to.
> if you want to make them even easier, you can get this kind of foams (no silicon tube inside). just trim (cut) bottom part to get desired length, and fit into silicone tips.



Nice, thanks!


----------



## chechu21

I have the ES4 and i am interested in the ZS4 for daily conmute but it seems very similar. Anyone who have the two models can you give me the differences between one and another?
Thanks!!!!


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> if you want to choose your specific type of foam, you can diy them easily. my how-to.
> if you want to make them even easier, you can get this kind of foams (no silicon tube inside). just trim (cut) bottom part to get desired length, and fit into silicone tips.



Agreed - those ‘marshmallow’ foam tips work great, as there’s nothing to take apart.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Broke down and ordered the ZSN. Couldn't help myself. Had 17 bucks burning a hole in my pocket so did it.  Ordered from Jim so should have in 7-9 days.  Will post impressions soon.


----------



## fluteloop

BadReligionPunk said:


> Broke down and ordered the ZSN. Couldn't help myself. Had 17 bucks burning a hole in my pocket so did it.  Ordered from Jim so should have in 7-9 days.  Will post impressions soon.



came here to see if anyone had jumped in yet. they certainly look nice.


----------



## fluteloop

nxnje said:


> Thanks for your information
> I actually tried using them pushing them into my ear canal picking the upper part of the ear and pull it up, and at the same time opening my mouth.
> They now go deep in the ear canal and i can hear there is no difference between the two channels, it think my right ear canal is just different and that's why when i listen to music i tend to hear different if i compare right and left ear canals.
> I think i'm gonna try triple flange tips.
> For example my right ear canal is way larger than the left one.



yes - it is also very easy to have an air leak, when that happens you're not living.   also always keep your hands and anything that goes near your ears as clean as possible.  (keep your ears clean push slow)


----------



## nxnje

Drumkrunk said:


> yes - it is also very easy to have an air leak, when that happens you're not living.   also always keep your hands and anything that goes near your ears as clean as possible.  (keep your ears clean push slow)



I still have this problem
Right ear: fluffy and lifeless bass, highs not detailed like the left one.
Left ear: borderline to perfection

Everytime i move the right piece i feel something different but can't actually find a proper way to wear them.. i love them but i think i'm gonna make a refund and ship them back to amazon


----------



## fluteloop

Slater said:


> You’d be surprised.
> 
> I never thought I’d see cat ear headphones, IEMs with stuff like bananas and mushrooms stuck out the side, etc



or those wierd IEMS that are built into over ear phones.  i'm not linking anything or promoting them any more than that. anyone who goes down that road can smile through tears at the dinner table shortly after unboxing those doodickys.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> I still have this problem
> Right ear: fluffy and lifeless bass, highs not detailed like the left one.
> Left ear: borderline to perfection
> 
> Everytime i move the right piece i feel something different but can't actually find a proper way to wear them.. i love them but i think i'm gonna make a refund and ship them back to amazon



Maybe it’s time to invest in a CIEM?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Maybe it’s time to invest in a CIEM?



Maybe it's not, i don't have money as i have to pay my university studies 
I just want to find a solution for this.
An idea could be wearing earbuds but i feel i'm gonna lose the rumble i have with the sub bass and the isolation.


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Gave my then 13 year old my ED12's and he loved them (I'm sure it was just for the bass) but I actually use my ATR's with a nice balanced SP cable on my Opus #1 I've also been known to sleep in my HDS1's while travelling
> 
> Now the ES4 as I've said many times is everything the ES3 should have been and I love mine
> 
> ...



I always found the ATRs to be dull, but I had the impression they could be better with other sources, cables or tweaks. They had potential but I lost patience too soon with them to make it work. Gave them to a cousin who is an amateur singer in a cover band for her to use as monitors. She's happy.

The ED12 had those hollow mids I was sensible to... Never got used to that signature. Sold them for 6 €...

The HDS1 are so small I thought they would fit very well, like the Sony mh1c. Unfortunately, they tended to swirl like crazy inside my ears, even with foam tips. Very strange. I had to use them cable up all the times. When my wife broke the jack on her beloved TDK iems, she asked me for some small earphones to use at the gym. So there they went.

As for a paint job, Short Dog would do a great work. 
If he refuses ... one evening I was looking at the carbon ZSTs and loathing that fake carbon print, while my wife was painting her nails. Got some black nail polish out of her box and off goes the ugly carbon. Not a perfect job, but nothing I am ashamed of. 

The Walnut... have it on my AE wishlist for ages and never pulled the trigger...


----------



## Amberlamps

My KZ upgrade cable that I bought from the crazy thing that is aliexpress, has started turning green. 

6 months old and it’s went from silver to 50 shades of green. I actually like that cable as it fits one of my iems perfectly.

I would moan about it on ali express, but what are the chances of them sending me a replacement without costing me more money to ship it back, and ship it tracked ?

It’s probably best to just cut my loses and avoid them in the future. They must of knew it was a problem, as my one started showing subtle himts of green a few days after I bought it.  Someone must of already complained to them about it ?


----------



## Mellowship (Oct 25, 2018)

Amberlamps said:


> My KZ upgrade cable that I bought from the crazy thing that is aliexpress, has started turning green.
> 
> 6 months old and it’s went from silver to 50 shades of green. I actually like that cable as it fits one of my iems perfectly.
> 
> ...


Same thing here with my silver kz cable, and with a silver tingo mmcx cable too. Copper oxidation. Most of us here accept it as fate. It will happen sooner or later. Mine took some 3 or 4 months.
You can expose it to the seller, see what they tell you.
This is the reason I started buying those brown or grey kz cables.


----------



## Mellowship

nxnje said:


> I still have this problem
> Right ear: fluffy and lifeless bass, highs not detailed like the left one.
> Left ear: borderline to perfection
> 
> Everytime i move the right piece i feel something different but can't actually find a proper way to wear them.. i love them but i think i'm gonna make a refund and ship them back to amazon



First thing is to make sure there is nothing wrong with the earphones themselves. Change the sides and see if the problem persist in the same ear or if it migrates to the other ear, i.e., if the problem lies with the earphone, it will migrate to the other ear.

If the issue is an anatomical difference between the ears, try using different tips, tip sizes and different insertion schemes. Start by inserting the IEM with your mouth opened and your jaw relaxed, and your head tilted towards the front or the back. If this doesn't work, time for tip-rolling.

There are several options, from double or triple flange to foam tips. I would try ordering a cheap box of faux-comply foam tips and see if they solve your problem. Foam tips adapt the best to the ear canal, contributing to a better seal. Otherwise, if the problem is lack of stiffness in the tip, some Sony hybrids could be the solution. There are also cheap faux Sony hybrid tips which are made to a similar material and design. You will recognize them by the colour scheme in the nozzle - red - XS, orange - S, green - M, blue - L.


----------



## nxnje (Oct 25, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> First thing is to make sure there is nothing wrong with the earphones themselves. Change the sides and see if the problem persist in the same ear or if it migrates to the other ear, i.e., if the problem lies with the earphone, it will migrate to the other ear.
> 
> If the issue is an anatomical difference between the ears, try using different tips, tip sizes and different insertion schemes. Start by inserting the IEM with your mouth opened and your jaw relaxed, and your head tilted towards the front or the back. If this doesn't work, time for tip-rolling.
> 
> There are several options, from double or triple flange to foam tips. I would try ordering a cheap box of faux-comply foam tips and see if they solve your problem. Foam tips adapt the best to the ear canal, contributing to a better seal. Otherwise, if the problem is lack of stiffness in the tip, some Sony hybrids could be the solution. There are also cheap faux Sony hybrid tips which are made to a similar material and design. You will recognize them by the colour scheme in the nozzle - red - XS, orange - S, green - M, blue - L.



I'm sure it's not headphone's fault as i even tried with my memt x5 and same thing happens, and the same thing happens even if i try to swap left and right channel
Anyway i already tried but right ear is something annoying
I mean i listen to music in a good way but there's always that little difference between the ear canals that is really annoying.
If i put medium/large tips on the zs6, my left ear is little and i have to pick my ear and pull up while opening mouth in order to pinch it into my ear canal, then it works flawlessly. On the right side, the ear canal is bigger and tips tend to let air pass i think, the problem is i tried every kind of tip but it seems like there's something different even in terms of deepness shape, i mean maybe there isn't just this difference in the ear canal, but more than one if i could dig into my ear and discover it
Then in the right side i feel like i have a closed style in ear, in the left side it seems i have a open back design iem.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> As a side note, I’ve never seen that green KZ driver before. Anyone know anything about it? @CoiL?


As far as I know, KZ has made 2 green-shelled DD`s up to now - one is ZS4 (I posted pics of it opened) and second is ZSN.
But until someone opens up ZSN and measures its real size - ZS4 = 8mm vs. ZSN = 10mm. 
All I know is: 1) I wont buy ZSN 2) ZS4 DD is tuned REALLY good and is great donor for DIY projects


----------



## Mellowship

nxnje said:


> I'm sure it's not headphone's fault as i even tried with my memt x5 and same thing happens, and the same thing happens even if i try to swap left and right channel
> Anyway i already tried but right ear is something annoying
> I mean i listen to music in a good way but there's always that little difference between the ear canals that is really annoying.
> If i put medium/large tips on the zs6, my left ear is little and i have to pick my ear and pull up while opening mouth in order to pinch it into my ear canal, then it works flawlessly. On the right side, the ear canal is bigger and tips tend to let air pass i think, the problem is i tried every kind of tip but it seems like there's something different even in terms of deepness shape, i mean maybe there isn't just this difference in the ear canal, but more than one if i could dig into my ear and discover it
> Then in the right side i feel like i have a closed style in ear, in the left side it seems i have a open back design iem.





nxnje said:


> I'm sure it's not headphone's fault as i even tried with my memt x5 and same thing happens, and the same thing happens even if i try to swap left and right channel
> Anyway i already tried but right ear is something annoying
> I mean i listen to music in a good way but there's always that little difference between the ear canals that is really annoying.
> If i put medium/large tips on the zs6, my left ear is little and i have to pick my ear and pull up while opening mouth in order to pinch it into my ear canal, then it works flawlessly. On the right side, the ear canal is bigger and tips tend to let air pass i think, the problem is i tried every kind of tip but it seems like there's something different even in terms of deepness shape, i mean maybe there isn't just this difference in the ear canal, but more than one if i could dig into my ear and discover it
> Then in the right side i feel like i have a closed style in ear, in the left side it seems i have a open back design iem.



IEMs are not for everyone... Maybe you are one of those cases. Anatomical differences in ear canal are common, and if you want to be sure of that, you can get an audiology appointment. 
Other thing I forgot to suggest is trying a shallow insertion with those old-style silicone tips that have a wide hole and attach to the end of the nozzle. 
If nothing solves your problem, and even if you get a good isolation but still have audible differences, the problem should definitively lie within. Could be related to the anatomy or the physiology of your ears. Anatomically, sharp curves in the ear canal will reflect or dampen sound, or will press against the IEM's tips and swivel or crush them to a point the air doesn't flow properly between the drivers and your tympanum. In terms of physiology, you should get an audiology appointment if you suspect of any earing alteration.


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> Maybe it's not, i don't have money as i have to pay my university studies
> I just want to find a solution for this.
> An idea could be wearing earbuds but i feel i'm gonna lose the rumble i have with the sub bass and the isolation.



With buds you will loose isolation of course but you would be surprised what a good earbud sounds like these days. Many have amazing bass. Come to the Earbuds Roundup    Personally I do not care about isolation.. I  like to be aware of my surroundings.  Buds would not be good on a train though.


----------



## Slater (Oct 25, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Maybe it's not, i don't have money as i have to pay my university studies
> I just want to find a solution for this.
> An idea could be wearing earbuds but i feel i'm gonna lose the rumble i have with the sub bass and the isolation.



It was just an idea, since you have difficulty fitting universal IEMs due to anatomical differences in your ear canals. Maybe keep it in mind for the future, and in the mean time maybe try foam eartips (instead of silicone) as they are able to contour to the unique shape of your ear canal better.

Also, I have been surprised by the amount of sub bass available with certain earbuds. I have a graphene earbud with a metal shell and mmcx connection, and it blew me away with the sound (especially sub bass).  It’s low price was shocking for the performance offered.

The secret is to wear them in the ear ‘sideways’ (ie perpendicular) with no foam cover, as opposed to the normal ‘flat’ way people wear earbuds. Once you go sideways with earbuds, you’ll never go back to the old way. I’ve converted quite a few people into sideways earbud believers 

And yes, isolation is less with earbuds. There’s trade offs to everything in life, as much as people always want everything to be perfect with no drawbacks (ie to ‘have our cake and eat it too’).


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> The secret is to wear them in the ear ‘sideways’ (ie perpendicular) with no foam cover, as opposed to the normal ‘flat’ way people wear earbuds. Once you go sideways with earbuds, you’ll never go back to the old way. I’ve converted quite a few people into sideways earbud believers



There is no physical way for me to put a bud in sideways.  I have tried.  Just like with IEMs everyone is different.  I also have to use foams.  If I don't they will not be stable.  Also there are so many different shell sizes and shapes now.  When I wear mine the "normal" way with foams they sound great.  Some I do angle slightly and notice a difference.  Depends on the bud.  I have a few...all in my list...


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> As far as I know, KZ has made 2 green-shelled DD`s up to now - one is ZS4 (I posted pics of it opened) and second is ZSN.
> But until someone opens up ZSN and measures its real size - ZS4 = 8mm vs. ZSN = 10mm.
> All I know is: 1) I wont buy ZSN 2) ZS4 DD is tuned REALLY good and is great donor for DIY projects



Awesome, thanks for the info.

I also agree - the ZS4 is ideal for donor projects.

Also the new QKZ version, which is only $6 and has a single 10mm driver mounted perpendicular to the nozzle (to be able to fit the larger driver). I have one on the way. I’m expecting it to sound like typical QKZ junk out of the box, but I bought it to use as a donor. For $6, how could I resist?


----------



## Podster (Oct 25, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> I always found the ATRs to be dull, but I had the impression they could be better with other sources, cables or tweaks. They had potential but I lost patience too soon with them to make it work. Gave them to a cousin who is an amateur singer in a cover band for her to use as monitors. She's happy.
> 
> The ED12 had those hollow mids I was sensible to... Never got used to that signature. Sold them for 6 €...
> 
> ...



Well the real deal on the Walnut V2 is that it has the analog type ambiance (could be too noisy for some but I appreciate how close it sounds to good vinyl playback) and the F1 amp just delivers that SS with so much power you could drive a 300Ohm can to it's hearts content. I love the simplicity of the Walnuts just about as much as the SQ. I strictly listen to vinyl at home and no other portable setup that I've heard has been able to come even close or replicate the Walnuts To me it's the reason that your warmer (lifeless to some) iem's come alive with the Walnut stack, pretty sure they will do that to any warmer sounding iem, I know it does the same thing for my Mee P's

Your loathing comment on your ZST's cracked me up as for what we paid I'm OK with a sticker carbon finish, don't want to upset you sensibilities but I even put FiiO sticker carbon from my X3ii box on the back of my beloved Havi B3 Pro's ala a Wokei trick from the old days Don't judge me too harshly






I just consider my ZST's to have a wrap instead of a nice paint job but once again hard to get a paint job (or even patterned molds) for what we got our ZST's for These ZST's and the first KZ SP cables looked so good when new but they have suffered the 50 Shades of Green like the Tri-braids and it is sad but on a positive note I gave all of those away to those who don't care if they now have Green Goblin cables because like they said the SQ did not really change because of the tarn/patina


----------



## queerquirks

queerquirks said:


> which of their models is a good upgrade from the ATR?
> I prefer ATR's warmish balanced sound vs the ZS3 which had great sound sig too but bass was too heavy and abit dark


Any advice for this please


----------



## Podster

queerquirks said:


> Any advice for this please



Well I'd go with the ZS4's in Fire Engine Red (Of course Tuxedo black is always a professional option) Not to mention the ZS4 may be one of the best fitting universals eva

I think Foreigner refers to this as "Double Vision"



 

I also approve both these SP cable in lieu of the clear sleeve silvers


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> There is no physical way for me to put a bud in sideways.  I have tried.  Just like with IEMs everyone is different.  I also have to use foams.  If I don't they will not be stable.  Also there are so many different shell sizes and shapes now.  When I wear mine the "normal" way with foams they sound great.  Some I do angle slightly and notice a difference.  Depends on the bud.  I have a few...all in my list...



Not surprising. Like you said, there are different sizes of buds, different shapes of ears, etc.


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Well the real deal on the Walnut V2 is that it has the analog type ambiance (could be too noisy for some but I appreciate how close it sounds to good vinyl playback) and the F1 amp just delivers that SS with so much power you could drive a 300Ohm can to it's hearts content. I love the simplicity of the Walnuts just about as much as the SQ. I strictly listen to vinyl at home and no other portable setup that I've heard has been able to come even close or replicate the Walnuts To me it's the reason that your warmer (lifeless to some) iem's come alive with the Walnut stack, pretty sure they will do that to any warmer sounding iem, I know it does the same thing for my Mee P's
> 
> Your loathing comment on your ZST's cracked me up as for what we paid I'm OK with a sticker carbon finish, don't want to upset you sensibilities but I even put FiiO sticker carbon from my X3ii box on the back of my beloved Havi B3 Pro's ala a Wokei trick from the old days Don't judge me too harshly
> 
> ...


I also often listen to LP records at home. Not now, though. The scanspeak mid-woofer from one of my beloved ProAc Studio 100 burned last sunday...  A lot of money to repair... (I prefer using speakers to listening to records vs. headphones, although my Grado SR60e + RA1-based DIY amp are a good match for vinyl). The rest of the setup consists in a tweaked ProJect Debut II + Sumiko Oyster, preamped through a Cambridge 520MM, and a PrimaLuna Prologue One integrated. 

I will keep a close look at the Walnut, maybe someday. Too much expenses in the past few days... Even today, I'm getting myself some BT on-ears... 

As for the carbon imitations, the FiiO X3II's sticker was cool enough and looks good on the Havi. I still have my stickers lying around. The only thing I sticked on the FiiO was to make justice to it: a Hi-res Audio golden sticker that was falling apart from the Hidizs Sonata USB-C cable I bought the other day. 

 
(don't the AS10 look cool? C'mon @Podster ! We sure have different tastes...) 

But the faux-carbon paint was just too different from the renditions KZ published when they launched the ZST. I was almost disgusted when I looked at them right out of the box, independently of how little they were sold for... I would rather have a blunt solid lid or a piece of cardboard covering it. Or a chewed bubblegum. Whatever. I almost developed an immediate repulse to them from their looks, and didn't rest until I covered them in cheap nail polish. 

By the way, nail polish is great for very small paint jobs. Just look at the plug from the photo above, which I had to break open to fix the cable that I destroyed trying to pull off the memory wire... after cutting about one inch from the cable, soldering the pins and making space inside the plug casings with a dremel, I glued all together with epoxy, let it dry and covered it in black nail polish.


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> I also often listen to LP records at home. Not now, though. The scanspeak mid-woofer from one of my beloved ProAc Studio 100 burned last sunday...  A lot of money to repair... (I prefer using speakers to listening to records vs. headphones, although my Grado SR60e + RA1-based DIY amp are a good match for vinyl). The rest of the setup consists in a tweaked ProJect Debut II + Sumiko Oyster, preamped through a Cambridge 520MM, and a PrimaLuna Prologue One integrated.
> 
> I will keep a close look at the Walnut, maybe someday. Too much expenses in the past few days... Even today, I'm getting myself some BT on-ears...
> 
> ...



Nice repair on that plug and it's OK that we have some different taste as it would be a very boring world if we all liked the same things I have three complete rigs in my Man Cave two are analog based and the other all digital I actually used the carbon face plate sticker on my X3ii plus the control dot/button in the middle You have a nice system, love the ProAc studio's and of course the Prima Luna kicks arse. That analog setup is also very nice

Pod's main rig consist of the BAT (Balanced Audio Technologies) VK-200, VK-3i, VK-P5, EAD-CDT1000, DSP-7000 Series III, Wadia iTransport, Yamaha MDX-793, Well Tempered Amadeus GTA w/Aidio-Technica VM740ML and B&W Nautilus 804's. Rig is getting dated now but still sounds awesomeSorry this shot is so grainy



 

So as to not go to astray Remember when these were our KZ choices?


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Nice repair on that plug and it's OK that we have some different taste as it would be a very boring world if we all liked the same things I have three complete rigs in my Man Cave two are analog based and the other all digital I actually used the carbon face plate sticker on my X3ii plus the control dot/button in the middle You have a nice system, love the ProAc studio's and of course the Prima Luna kicks arse. That analog setup is also very nice
> 
> Pod's main rig consist of the BAT (Balanced Audio Technologies) VK-200, VK-3i, VK-P5, EAD-CDT1000, DSP-7000 Series III, Wadia iTransport, Yamaha MDX-793, Well Tempered Amadeus GTA w/Aidio-Technica VM740ML and B&W Nautilus 804's. Rig is getting dated now but still sounds awesomeSorry this shot is so grainy
> 
> ...


What a nice setup! Those things don't get dated ever. They turn into classics! That Well Tempered, don't you ever get rid of it!!! 
And the Tull's Thick as a Brick peaking in the picture  

As for those old KZs, I still use ATE in a regular basis. They are just so romantic... I believe they were my first KZs.


----------



## Podster

Yessir, this is how you know you were with KZ for a while Way before there was the Avengers and Shield Oh no he deent LOL


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 25, 2018)

Podster said:


> Yessir, this is how you know you were with KZ for a while Way before there was the Avengers and Shield Oh no he deent LOL



All of us veterans are wondering so I'll be the one to ask.

What's in the STILL SEALED KZ shield? 

Very cool! 

It could only be one of the budget legends (ED9, ED10, ED11 or ATE).



.......oops (or HDS2 - legendary looks but also a legendary flop).



 



 




Just knowing that someone has an original KZ in a "still sealed" case gives me the shakes.



Come on, POD.....


----------



## Podster

Now your sounding like Sheriff Bart and the Waco Kid, "I must, I must"

So the un-opened Shield is ED10's, as seen in the upper right of that KZ Roundup shot on the previous page You can stop shaking as they were opened before I trashed the wrappings of the ATE's We are sure in agreement on the HDS2 (it seems to me someone compared them to something like a Yamaha 100 something) but they sucked major root, probably the worst iem spend I've ever had! No wait, These were my worst spend eva In my mind I was envisioning B&W Nautilus design 



 

Then again on the opposite side of the spectrum my "Z Team 6" may the best $100 I've spent on iem's since joining this crazy cesspool of mentally euthanized nutcases LOL


----------



## kukkurovaca

mbwilson111 said:


> There is no physical way for me to put a bud in sideways.  I have tried.  Just like with IEMs everyone is different.  I also have to use foams.  If I don't they will not be stable.  Also there are so many different shell sizes and shapes now.  When I wear mine the "normal" way with foams they sound great.  Some I do angle slightly and notice a difference.  Depends on the bud.  I have a few...all in my list...



Yeah, at least with the VE earbuds I have, my ears are definitely not compatible with wearing sidwise, upside, or any way other than the regular way.  Unless I hold them in place with my fingers the entire time. : )


----------



## kukkurovaca

Podster said:


> Well the real deal on the Walnut V2 is that it has the analog type ambiance (could be too noisy for some but I appreciate how close it sounds to good vinyl playback) and the F1 amp just delivers that SS with so much power you could drive a 300Ohm can to it's hearts content.



The F1 really is extremely good. I just wish it had a low-gain mode, or just a lower noise floor. Although I found the noise floor improved a bit when swapping out the stock opamp w/a Muses02.

Alternatively, maybe the problem is just that there aren't enough IEMs with a higher impedance. That's one major reason why I picked up the Superbass GT3, which has both somewhat high imepdance and somewhat low sensitivity. 

Also, the build quality/durability is not great on the F1, of course. (The 2.5mm jack recently failed on mine.) I would happily pay, like, 4x-6x as much for the exact same amp, but better built.


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 25, 2018)

Podster said:


> Now your sounding like Sheriff Bart and the Waco Kid, "I must, I must"
> 
> So the un-opened Shield is ED10's, as seen in the upper right of that KZ Roundup shot on the previous page You can stop shaking as they were opened before I trashed the wrappings of the ATE's We are sure in agreement on the HDS2 (it seems to me someone compared them to something like a Yamaha 100 something) but they sucked major root, probably the worst iem spend I've ever had! No wait, These were my worst spend eva In my mind I was envisioning B&W Nautilus design
> 
> ...





 


100% in agreement! 




Best purchase in the last 3 years.



 



 



Next stop.......



 


An ATR in an aluminum shell with improved resolution, imaging and separation would be awesome right about now.

ATR


 



If the ZS6 is the sanguine (red box - outgoing & task focused) and the BA10 is the melancholic (yellow box - reserved & task focused) then perhaps KZ will give us a phlegmatic IEM (blue box - reserved & people focused) in a metal shell as well.



 


If so ......


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> It was just an idea, since you have difficulty fitting universal IEMs due to anatomical differences in your ear canals. Maybe keep it in mind for the future, and in the mean time maybe try foam eartips (instead of silicone) as they are able to contour to the unique shape of your ear canal better.
> 
> Also, I have been surprised by the amount of sub bass available with certain earbuds. I have a graphene earbud with a metal shell and mmcx connection, and it blew me away with the sound (especially sub bass).  It’s low price was shocking for the performance offered.
> 
> ...


Which earbuds are you talkin about?
For now, i'm applaying for a return for my zs6, i love the way they sound but i can't stand the annoying little difference in the punch of the right channel. I listened again today trying thousands method to insert them, but the finak result is that in the best way i get less punch and body on the right side.
Putting my finger in the ear, the left ear is little, the right one is larger. That's why i'm having problems.

Could you please tell me which kind of earbud are you using?
Anyway, imma think about returning the zs6 for 38$ on amazon, buying a pair of ed9 or ed16 for like 14 euros and with the rest of the money, buying a ve monk lite, that have small shell as i can't stand mx500 earbuds.


----------



## Podster (Oct 25, 2018)

Dang Doc, if KZ had offered the ZS6 in that blue I might not have ordered that Satin Blue DMG from MassDrop  However I would like to see the blue ZS6 and a metal shell ATR


----------



## eclein

I don't have the ZS6 am I missing the best of the bunch? I only have ZS5 and BA10, tell me my kz fanatic friends whIch ones are a must have?


----------



## TLDRonin

eclein said:


> I don't have the ZS6 am I missing the best of the bunch? I only have ZS5 and BA10, tell me my kz fanatic friends whIch ones are a must have?


ZS5 and ZS6 are pretty similar. If you really like the ZS5 sound signature, the ZS6 might be a little upgrade


----------



## stryed (Oct 25, 2018)

I really like the ZS5 and will be getting a ZS6 for 11.11 without the mic cable for a change as I really enjoy the soundstage and treble is not a problem.Would really like a lip on the nozzle but that seems hard to find on AE...
Any info on when the ZS7 will be out? I think I'll be skipping the AS10.


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 25, 2018)

eclein said:


> I don't have the ZS6 am I missing the best of the bunch? I only have ZS5 and BA10, tell me my kz fanatic friends whIch ones are a must have?





TLDRonin said:


> ZS5 and ZS6 are pretty similar. If you really like the ZS5 sound signature, the ZS6 might be a little upgrade




In my personal opinion the ZS6 is a must if you have no aversion to sparkling treble. I enjoy and appreciate my ZS5(v1) immensely but once I became well acquainted with the ZS6's tighter bass and laser-like focus on even the smallest detail.......well, let's just say that my ZS5(v1) gets very little play time. 

The BA10 is a great IEM but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them for classic rock and/or classic metal. The ZS6 on the other hand handles everything with unshakable finesse. You fork over $35 and the ZS6 smiles at you and says "take your best shot, son".




Podster said:


> Dang Doc, if KZ had offered the ZS6 in that blue I might not have ordered that Satin Blue DMG from MassDrop  However I would like to see the blue ZS6 and a metal shell ATR



Yeah, the ZS6 in satin blue would have been great. The blue/black ZS7 looks fine but the two-tone thing is a little played out for me. All blue is better in my opinion and an ATR sound signature would round out an aluminum KZ collection quite nicely.

ZS6 = Bright and analytical yet fun.
BA10 = Warm and detailed and STILL fun.
ZS7 = ??? (Balanced with rich detail would be perfect)

Been collecting KZ's for a while now but.......

I'm not an addict!


----------



## Amberlamps

Mellowship said:


> Same thing here with my silver kz cable, and with a silver tingo mmcx cable too. Copper oxidation. Most of us here accept it as fate. It will happen sooner or later. Mine took some 3 or 4 months.
> You can expose it to the seller, see what they tell you.
> This is the reason I started buying those brown or grey kz cables.



It’s weird as it was “silver plated”, if anything, that should hide the copper oxidisation.

It was only a few bucks, more trouble than it’s worth when trying to deal with aliexpress.  There is like 1 or 2 companies that I kinda trust on there, when I say trust, I mean, trust as far as I can throw them, and I’m a thalidomide victim. I don’t have arms, my hands grow straight out of my shoulders, and theowing isn’t a sport that I’m good at.

This is the only cable ever to turn green on me, and I have a bag full of cables. It didn’t come as a shock mind you, as I have seen numerous posters here and on other forums complaining that cable xyz turned green on them.

It was only $15, too much trouble to try and get my money back. Thats why I ONLY deal with Penon, they will go out of their way to help you and make sure their customer is happy with their purchase.

Thanks for your advice in any case.


----------



## CoiL (Oct 26, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> An ATR in an aluminum shell with improved resolution, imaging and separation would be awesome right about now.
> ATR


PICS! ME WANNA PICS! ;P Did You tune front/back ports also and driver back-fabric? I know that latest ATR/ATE have same driver and can sound GREAT when modded properly ;P
I`m going to experiment with ATE DD + ZS4 DD + BA (BK50) soon... madness, I know


----------



## randomnin

CoiL said:


> PICS! ME WANNA PICS! ;P Did You tune front/back ports also and driver back-fabric? I know that latest ATR/ATE have same driver and can sound GREAT when modded properly ;P
> I`m going to experiment with ATE DD + ZS4 DD + BA (BK50) soon... madness, I know


I think he's just speculating, not talking about an existing prototype. And that's just the raw graph of the unmodified ATR. I don't think any other KZ has a similar signature, so ATR is pretty unique. Not that I like that signature, though.


----------



## Aparker2005

New triple driver as06 announced


----------



## jeromeaparis

I just received my trn cable from AliE. 
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/TRN-...3-5-MMCX-couteurs-Mets-C-ble/32931782166.html
It is the black & white, 0.75mm, balanced 2.5mm
Excellent looking, seems more expensive than paied for, top look for the price.
I did test it on my ZS6

My personal feelings:
Before, I did test the stock cable,looks sober but sound can be better.
the silver KZ upgrade (the thin twisted one) that sounded slightly better for sharper trbles and more focused bass,
the new KZ twisted iron grey color (silver plated), sounds realy different with lot of punch, good !
the trn looks bigger and more expensive, sounds different too, more subtle than the iron grey on the trebles and the bass can have instant more volume,

The special "silver plated OCC copper and the 200 strands" (100 on the KZ) for me make a difference


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Yessir, this is how you know you were with KZ for a while Way before there was the Avengers and Shield Oh no he deent LOL


Eheheh! 
I also have a sealed shield case with a mic ATE (v1) in it. In some years I plan to sell them to the geek daughters and sons of the ageing KZ community like it was some holy KZ grail!


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> Eheheh!
> I also have a sealed shield case with a mic ATE (v1) in it. In some years I plan to sell them to the geek daughters and sons of the ageing KZ community like it was some holy KZ grail!



LOL, I may have to do that with several new KZ models! Won’t have the shield but I’ll just use the old “Way back in the beginning” ploy


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> LOL, I may have to do that with several new KZ models! Won’t have the shield but I’ll just use the old “Way back in the beginning” ploy


"In the old days, before hybrid-meta-plasma 4D printers, we had to wait for a slow boat from the then called People's Republic of China..."


----------



## mochill

I will be getting the zs4 next week , anybody has one . How does it sound?


----------



## tripside

mochill said:


> I will be getting the zs4 next week , anybody has one . How does it sound?



bass. lots of it. and its punchy and it rumbles. sounds fun. less recessed mids and decent treble.


----------



## Mellowship

tripside said:


> bass. lots of it. and its punchy and it rumbles. sounds fun. less recessed mids and decent treble.


Fun and engaging. The bass is strong but clean, the mids are slightly recessed not due to the bass, which doesn't interfere with the mid resolution. The treble is decent, alright, not because of lack, au contraire, it has lots of it but sometimes some sibilance is to be expected. The overall experience is very fun, but not perfectly coherent. I love them, though.


----------



## DocHoliday

Aparker2005 said:


> New triple driver as06 announced



Link please


----------



## Makahl

DocHoliday said:


> Link please



https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1050234693294088192


----------



## B9Scrambler (Oct 26, 2018)

Quick review of the ZSN. It's good.

The Contraptionist / Head-fi

  ​


----------



## RolledOff

B9Scrambler said:


> Quick review of the ZSN. It's good.
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-fi
> 
> ​


good looking / sounding / fitting? 
all of 3 ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

RolledOff said:


> good looking / sounding / fitting?
> all of 3 ?



Yup. It's imo a flat out better ZST in nearly every way. For 20 bucks it's a no brainer.


----------



## TheVortex

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup. It's imo a flat out better ZST in nearly every way. For 20 bucks it's a no brainer.



Thanks for the quick review but you have posted the links backwards for your post that links to it here and on your blog.


----------



## B9Scrambler

TheVortex said:


> Thanks for the quick review but you have posted the links backwards for your post that links to it here and on your blog.



Ewps. Thanks!


----------



## groucho69

TheVortex said:


> Thanks for the quick review but you have posted the links backwards for your post that links to it here and on your blog.



So it's NOT backwards day?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

B9Scrambler said:


> Yup. It's imo a flat out better ZST in nearly every way. For 20 bucks it's a no brainer.


Didn't even read your review yet, but was hoping for exactly that as I like the ZST very much. Cost me $17, which is actually cheaper then what I paid for the ZST when it came out. I guess I will go read the review now.


----------



## Zerohour88

3BA only this time, so mid-range AS series


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Oct 26, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Quick review of the ZSN. It's good.
> 
> The Contraptionist / Head-fi
> 
> ​


Really interested in the bass response of these? These are sporting a new DD correct? I really love really fast transient bass and have been hoping for something from KZ that can handle double bass blast beats, and downtuned chuggy basslines, without getting messy. Your review seems to give hope to that for me. Also pleased that mids are a bit forward and vocals have good presence. Treble will be the one thing that will dictate if I can deal with these. I have zero problems with ZST treble, but ZSA treble is a bit fatiguing to me. It also doesn't help that ZSA is a horrible all around iem tho. LOL

Anyway I cant wait for my ZSN. Got the green black combo.


----------



## B9Scrambler

BadReligionPunk said:


> Really interested in the bass response of these? These are sporting a new DD correct? I really love really fast transient bass and have been hoping for something from KZ that can handle double bass blast beats, and downtuned chuggy basslines, without getting messy. Your review seems to give hope to that for me. Also pleased that mids are a bit forward and vocals have good presence. Treble will be the one thing that will dictate if I can deal with these. I have zero problems with ZST treble, but ZSA treble is a bit fatiguing to me. It also doesn't help that ZSA is a horrible all around iem tho. LOL
> 
> Anyway I can wait for my ZSN. Got the green black combo.



I love the ZSA. All it needs it more forward mids, but as-is it's one of my fav KZs. ZSN's treble is slightly boosted over the ZST, but not much. It's a lot cleaner though. Easy enough to EQ or mod it down a bit if it's that bothersome. ZSN bass handles these guys just fine (see 2:32 on):


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> I love the ZSA. All it needs it more forward mids, but as-is it's one of my fav KZs. ZSN's treble is slightly boosted over the ZST, but not much. It's a lot cleaner though. Easy enough to EQ or mod it down a bit if it's that bothersome. ZSN bass handles these guys just fine (see 2:32 on):




Just listened to this on my ZST's which handled the track well. Then I tried the BA10 and the  presentation is on a completely different level. KZ has come a long way in two years. The BA10 is money well spent but I'm looking forward to hearing the ZSN's abilities as well.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Oct 26, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> I love the ZSA. All it needs it more forward mids, but as-is it's one of my fav KZs. ZSN's treble is slightly boosted over the ZST, but not much. It's a lot cleaner though. Easy enough to EQ or mod it down a bit if it's that bothersome. ZSN bass handles these guys just fine (see 2:32 on):



Yea, Sometimes we just don't gel with something for one reason or another. I find ZSA bass a tad messy. Find the mids buried and the treble a bit hot for me personally. Throw in a very small stage, and nozzles that are inserted into my brain, coupled with that cable with the massively long split(and its heavy AF too), I ended up just not being a fan.

It happens. Its really the only dud from KZ that I've tried.


----------



## Podster

LOL, I hope I can deliver that story to my great grandkids with enough drama to have them go Wow! 


Mellowship said:


> Eheheh!
> I also have a sealed shield case with a mic ATE (v1) in it. In some years I plan to sell them to the geek daughters and sons of the ageing KZ community like it was some holy KZ grail!



LOL, I hope I can deliver that story to my great grandkids with enough drama to have them go Wow!


----------



## Rippersyte

DocHoliday said:


> Just listened to this on my ZST's which handled the track well. Then I tried the BA10 and the  presentation is on a completely different level. KZ has come a long way in two years. The BA10 is money well spent but I'm looking forward to hearing the ZSN's abilities as well.



What do you mean by completely different level? in a good way or not so good way? How is it compared to zst?


----------



## scottySK

Guys my desktop pc motherboard sound sucks - not loud enough when using my KZ ES3's. There is also slight buzz/hiss/static when I plug them in but have no audio playing...

I've read that a dac/amp combo might solve this. I've come across the Xduoo XP-2 which intrigues me because it also has Bluetooth with aptx so might be able to serve an additional purpose if I ever need more power on the go when listening from my phone...

So basically I'm asking two things
1. How would you recommend I get more volume from my ES3's at my desktop PC?
2. Is Xduoo XP-2 a decent device or are there better options at the same price ($100usd)


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, i've been kind of out of this, my ZSR broke down, i need a new pair of iem's, only models i don't know are the ZS10, AS10 and BA10, so, how are they? And are there better options than KZ at this price point?


Thanks,


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 27, 2018)

Rippersyte said:


> What do you mean by completely different level? in a good way or not so good way? How is it compared to zst?



Definitely in a good way. The separation, imaging, clarity and overall presentation aren't even comparable . The best way to describe it is .......




This the ZST


 





This is the BA10


----------



## randomnin

Who can we hope to get the first independent ZSN FR graph from? ThePhonograph?


----------



## KevDzn

scottySK said:


> Guys my desktop pc motherboard sound sucks - not loud enough when using my KZ ES3's. There is also slight buzz/hiss/static when I plug them in but have no audio playing...
> 
> I've read that a dac/amp combo might solve this. I've come across the Xduoo XP-2 which intrigues me because it also has Bluetooth with aptx so might be able to serve an additional purpose if I ever need more power on the go when listening from my phone...
> 
> ...



For starter, you can try 'VE Odyssey Type-C to 3.5mm DAC dongle' for 10 bucks.


----------



## CoiL

Zerohour88 said:


> 3BA only this time, so mid-range AS series



Veeery interesting to me. Waiting for this along with ZS7!


----------



## ri_toast

i picked up the kz-zsr about a week ago and immediately liked what I heard. bass was amazing but couldn't really find tips that worked. pressing the iems in really well with the flat of my palms was the only way to get them thumping, which I like considering a dynamic driver and all. The star tips seemed to be between sizes for me at least... and that's expected. I have so many iems and tips that I picked ten sets and started going through them. Sennheiser ie8s have tons with their package and I settled on triple flanges. those go in so deep it felt uncomfortable and lost seal trying to get the right depth. I settled on double flange and enjoyed the presentation and fit even though I'd have to reset them every so often. There is no way these should lose seal and after inspecting the iems I tried covering the two ports with tape. I assume whats happening is the port is being closed by my ear wall! That worked better but still not optimum in comfort or seal....somethings just not right. I picked up a 6 braid silver cable (that rubber coated thing is awful but works) and a set of comply tx500. Cable is great but the comply tips make the iems wooly. Just when I think I've got it figured I pull the tape off the ports and they don't sound half bad with the double flange. Search continues.

I need tips on tips.....anyone else get the sense that these are a bassheads dream configured the right way? When I say basshead I mean hits 20hz with authority and upper registers still sound sweet.... 

these are pretty amazing for thirty bucks on amazon, another 15 for a really comfortable cable


----------



## randomnin

ThePhonograph provides a coupon that drops the price of ZSN to 14$. I think that's the cheapest offer there is.


----------



## jibberish

ri_toast said:


> i picked up the kz-zsr about a week ago and immediately liked what I heard. bass was amazing but couldn't really find tips that worked. pressing the iems in really well with the flat of my palms was the only way to get them thumping, which I like considering a dynamic driver and all. The star tips seemed to be between sizes for me at least... and that's expected. I have so many iems and tips that I picked ten sets and started going through them. Sennheiser ie8s have tons with their package and I settled on triple flanges. those go in so deep it felt uncomfortable and lost seal trying to get the right depth. I settled on double flange and enjoyed the presentation and fit even though I'd have to reset them every so often. There is no way these should lose seal and after inspecting the iems I tried covering the two ports with tape. I assume whats happening is the port is being closed by my ear wall! That worked better but still not optimum in comfort or seal....somethings just not right. I picked up a 6 braid silver cable (that rubber coated thing is awful but works) and a set of comply tx500. Cable is great but the comply tips make the iems wooly. Just when I think I've got it figured I pull the tape off the ports and they don't sound half bad with the double flange. Search continues.
> 
> I need tips on tips.....anyone else get the sense that these are a bassheads dream configured the right way? When I say basshead I mean hits 20hz with authority and upper registers still sound sweet....
> 
> these are pretty amazing for thirty bucks on amazon, another 15 for a really comfortable cable


I also found that double flange tips worked best for me with the ZSR, and the ZS4, for that matter. I did just test the ZSR, and I was able to hear test tones into the mid 20s hz range, bass performance is definitely legit.  The ZS4's bass is better, and can go a bit deeper with authority.

I never listen to my ZSR anymore, I've found that I far prefer the ZS4.  ZS4 is frequently available on Gearbest for $12, to get that bass you're looking for, you might be better off trying the ZS4 rather than spending about the same on tips.  I can see that some people would prefer the ZSR to the ZS4 in terms of mids, wider sound stage, etc., you might be in that boat, I personally like the ZS4 better overall though.


----------



## DocHoliday (Oct 27, 2018)

ri_toast said:


> i picked up the kz-zsr about a week ago and immediately liked what I heard. bass was amazing but couldn't really find tips that worked. pressing the iems in really well with the flat of my palms was the only way to get them thumping, which I like considering a dynamic driver and all. The star tips seemed to be between sizes for me at least... and that's expected. I have so many iems and tips that I picked ten sets and started going through them. Sennheiser ie8s have tons with their package and I settled on triple flanges. those go in so deep it felt uncomfortable and lost seal trying to get the right depth. I settled on double flange and enjoyed the presentation and fit even though I'd have to reset them every so often. There is no way these should lose seal and after inspecting the iems I tried covering the two ports with tape. I assume whats happening is the port is being closed by my ear wall! That worked better but still not optimum in comfort or seal....somethings just not right. I picked up a 6 braid silver cable (that rubber coated thing is awful but works) and a set of comply tx500. Cable is great but the comply tips make the iems wooly. Just when I think I've got it figured I pull the tape off the ports and they don't sound half bad with the double flange. Search continues.
> 
> I need tips on tips.....anyone else get the sense that these are a bassheads dream configured the right way? When I say basshead I mean hits 20hz with authority and upper registers still sound sweet....
> 
> these are pretty amazing for thirty bucks on amazon, another 15 for a really comfortable cable



Glad to hear that you really enjoy the ZSR.

This response is for you and anyone else who needs a little direction or a little help with understanding how crucial a role eartips play in getting the best from your in-ear monitors. Eartips can make or break ANY in-ear monitor, whether it costs $20 or $2,000.



Spoiler



About IEMs:

Take note when you read IEM reviews that when the reviewer gives his/her opinion regarding the sound that there are many factors that shape the final sound an IEM delivers to one's ear.

Those factors include:
1 - Shape & size of reviewer's ear canals. (shallow/deep, wide/narrow)
2 - Shape & size of eartips (round/cone, single, double or triple flange)
3 - Materials of eartips (silicone/foam)
4 - Shape of IEM (and/or angle of nozzle) can cause fitment issues for some.
5 - Source (quality of DAC in smartphone, laptop, digital audio player)
6 - Source (power rating) is it amplified/unamplified.
7 - The IEM itself (driver flex/trapping air in canal causing muffled sound.
8 - The Reviewers ability to hear all frequency ranges (age plays a factor).

Most consumers are unaware of how much weight each of these factors hold in rendering a final verdict. This is why there is such a wide variance in not only ratings, but the description of an IEMs sound. An unaware consumer purchases a perfectly fine IEM but has difficulty keeping the IEM in the ear or he/she does not satisfactorily seal the ear canal with the included silicone eartips (this is a common occurrence) and the consumer summarily dismisses the IEM as sub par. Another consumer purchases the same IEM but experiences a perfect fit and seal and has nothing but praise for the same IEM. Sealing the ear canals AND HAVING THE EARTIP FIRMLY AFFIXED to the IEM nozzle is the only proper way to use in-ear monitors. I can think of no audio equipment that is subjected to such praise or ridicule as the in-ear monitor. As if that's not enough, there is no "one-size-fits-all" when it comes to IEM eartips.

Materials (silicone/foam) have different dampening effects on final sound.
Shape of the eartips (olive-shaped, cone-shaped or other-shaped) can have different dampening effects on final sound based on how much space is between the IEM nozzle and your eardrum and how well the eartip has sealed the ear canal.
The aperture of the eartip's opening (wide-bore/narrow-bore) will have dampening effects on the final sound.

The easiest way for you to experience the different effects I am discussing is to take your current on-ear headphones or over-ear headphones, pick a song full of energy, put the earphones on and let them sit naturally over or on your ears. Listen to the music for two minutes. After two minutes, using your hands, slightly press the headphones closer to your eardrums. Notice the change in the sound. Is there more/less bass? Is there more/less treble? Did the vocals slightly slip forward/back?

Consider that on-ear and over-ear headphones have a driver that sits approximately 1 1/2 inches to 2 inches from your eardrums and by pressing the headphones 1/4" closer to your eardrums the sound changed. Now consider that an IEM driver sits anywhere from 3/4" to 1/4" from your eardrums and the slightest changes (angle, depth, shape, material) can have up to three times more of an effect due to the proximity of the IEM to the eardrum.

For this reason, I think it is wise to invest a nominal dollar amount on different eartips to find an eartip that works well for your particular ear's anatomy. This way you experience everything the earphone tuner intended for you to experience. Some IEM manufacturers supply multiple sizes (S/M/L) and/or materials (silicone/foam) of eartips to increase the odds that the consumer achieves a satisfactory seal, but even this is not foolproof. If this information holds any interest for you, there are a plethora of aftermarket eartip brands to look into, such as "JVC Spiral Dots", "Spinfits", "Comply Foam Eartips" or "Znari Foam Eartips", "Creative Aurvana" and others. If you really want to fine tune things, then you might find yourself doing what I do, which is scouring Amazon for inexpensive earphones that appear to have silicone eartips that have a shape that typically work well with my ear's anatomy.


My Ears:

You should also know a little bit about my ears since yours may differ. Below I have included two images. One image of an ear canal of typical length and the other image showing a more shallow ear canal. My ear canals resemble the more shallow of the two. 




 



 

I have no scientific evidence to back this up but I'd bet that ear canal length can play a part when it comes to resonance hotspots and/or bass boominess.




Several years ago I found some ridiculously inexpensive silicone eartips that have proven to be in my top three. 

Here is my original review from way back in July 2016. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/APG-Replac...Y#secondary-view-R1CUWVBUL3T95M_1540674992948


APG doesn't appear to be around anymore. The closest thing on Amazon that looks like my APG's is the BlueCells here:

https://www.amazon.com/Bluecell-Medium-Silicone-Replacement-Generic/dp/B00A44SIYM



I can't say that these BlueCells are the same exact eartips as the APG's but they look terribly familiar. 

APG is a seller not the brand.

BlueCell is a seller not the brand.



APG


>






Blue Cell


>



The reason the APG's fit my ears so well is because they have a soft and malleable texture that allows them to conform to the shape of my ear canals.  Be aware that my APG's fit IEMs with 4mm-6mm nozzles. They fit the ZSR's 6mm nozzle perfectly. 

Hopefully, the BlueCells are the same eartips but I can't promise that they are.

Some other brands that might be worth your time are:

 Auvio's:


 

https://www.amazon.com/AUVIO-Silicone-Replacement-Tips-Medium/dp/B00N568Z80




JVC Spiral Dots:


 

https://www.amazon.com/VICTOR-JVC-E...spiral+dot&dpPl=1&dpID=414dgikJt2L&ref=plSrch




Tennmak Whirlwinds:


 

https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-...nd+eartips&dpPl=1&dpID=51Sqh-+7i0L&ref=plSrch

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## scottySK

KevDzn said:


> For starter, you can try 'VE Odyssey Type-C to 3.5mm DAC dongle' for 10 bucks.


Will that increase the volume from my PC or just the quality of the audio?


----------



## caesar13

is ZSN an upgrade over the ED16?


----------



## ri_toast

DocHoliday said:


> Glad to hear that you really enjoy the ZSR.
> <snip>
> Hope this was helpful.


Doc that's quite the write up....many thanks!


----------



## DocHoliday

ri_toast said:


> Doc that's quite the write up....many thanks!




No worries. 

It's just an excerpt that I copied & pasted from my BA10 and ZSR reviews.

Enjoy your ZSR. They are well worth the asking price .......and then some.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Enjoy your ZSR. They are well worth the asking price .......and then some.



Agreed. For those whose ear canals are compatible with the monster nozzles, you are rewarded with one of the best IEMs KZ has made.


----------



## KevDzn

scottySK said:


> Will that increase the volume from my PC or just the quality of the audio?



It will definitely increase your pc volume and also the sound quality.
Here's some infos on the dongle : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ve-odyssey-discussions-and-impressions-thread.886989/


----------



## Rippersyte

DocHoliday said:


> Definitely in a good way. The separation, imaging, clarity and overall presentation aren't even comparable . The best way to describe it is .......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow!!! Now that's how you compare things easily  Thank you very much!


----------



## antdroid

randomnin said:


> Who can we hope to get the first independent ZSN FR graph from? ThePhonograph?



My ZSN is in customs limbo right now for 5 days. But if I get it this week, I'll post measurements as soon as I can.


----------



## Audiostart

caesar13 said:


> is ZSN an upgrade over the ED16?



I only have the ED16, but somehow i doubt there is an upgrade there. Guess AS10 would be an upgrade, i was thinking at KZ lineup and i believe other than that i would just sidegrade. What i don't like in ED16 - sibilance (can be tamed mostly) and certain "spikes" in treble (hope i got it right with the terminology, by no means an expert). Considering myself TIN Audio T2 and BQEYZ KC2 (so far) for an upgrade in the (near?) future. To be honest the "faults" of ED16 would not be enough to justify another purchase, as i find them decent enough and did not had the chance to listen to better and pricier gear. It is though my belief that for a real upgrade i should go for the +100$ tier, something like BGVP DMG. May the Force be with my wallet!


----------



## Tunaa

I've been using KZ AS10 for one week now. And they are amazing. I have used ZS6s AND ES4s from KZ long time ago. And i can say KZ AS10s Has better mids and vocals compared to ZS6s. Highs are not harsh anymore unlike the ZS6s which i did not find their highs harsh anyway. Bass is strong and punchy since im not a basshead i just dont care it a lot. I've heard things that i could not before in the songs. Also they are louder compared to ZS6s due to their Impedance. So very easy to drive their 10 Balanced Armature Drivers.


----------



## eclein (Oct 28, 2018)

Just a follow-up on my BA10 voyage, I took the little screen and sponge out of the nozzle on each and really like the sound now even more.
Mine are sounding okie dokie!!!!
I'm waiting on my slow boat from China and my V80's to arrive then I'm saving for a new DAP. I love my DX90 but the new stuff is so cheap I gotta grab a new unit and try them out. A little Shanling M0 may be next...


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my kz zsn and man do they sound so good. I have just started my kz adventure not even 1 month ago. I have kz zs3, zst, zsr and zs6 in less than a month period (lol). Out of the bunch, I like zs6 the best, but the treble can really hurt on some songs. Here come kz zsn and on my first listening, it sounds similar to my zs6 but with way less piercing treble. I will do more listening and burning in with the zsn. Buid quality is very good, fit is better than the zs6 as it is less heavier than zs6.


----------



## emusic13

Just wondering, based on the banned brands, why is KZ an exception? They clearly have been copying Campfire Audio, InEar, etc.


----------



## Zerohour88

emusic13 said:


> Just wondering, based on the banned brands, why is KZ an exception? They clearly have been copying Campfire Audio, InEar, etc.



banned brands is not due to copying, its due to some shady stuff the shop/seller did a long time ago. Do some reading on the links @Slater 's have on his signature


----------



## voicemaster

I think every brand of iem or headphone copying each other no matter what they do.


----------



## Tonwiki

Sorry, I'm new to this forum and mainly this thread, but does this thread also deals with problems or fixes?


----------



## groucho69

Tonwiki said:


> Sorry, I'm new to this forum and mainly this thread, but does this thread also deals with problems or fixes?



If it is a ZK issue post it hear...

Welcome and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## Bad-Choices

Thinking of dipping into the ZS6, is the jump worth it or wait for the forthcoming ZS7?

Only thing I own in the KZ range is the ZS3 to compare too if that helps.


----------



## scottySK

emusic13 said:


> Just wondering, based on the banned brands, why is KZ an exception? They clearly have been copying Campfire Audio, InEar, etc.


I'm considering ordering a ZS6 *specifically because* they copied Campfire Audio. They look amazing, even if they only sound half as good it's worth it because they cost like 10 times less.

I think in China it may even be a show of respect to use someone else's work in this way.. even if that seems weird to us


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Oct 28, 2018)

Just checking around AE adding crap into my cart for the 11/11 sale and I noticed a couple really good deals to mention here. KZ ZS10 is $28 at a couple places. KZ AS10 is $39. Hope that helps stoke more interest in those 2 iems.

11/11 is going to be a bloodbath for my wallet. I have like $600 worth of stuff added. Game time decision on how much I actually buy. Also watching 400gb micro sd prices. Seen them as low as $90 each on Amazon recently, hoping they can actually get down to $75 or $80 by BF.


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 28, 2018)

Bad-Choices said:


> Thinking of dipping into the ZS6, is the jump worth it or wait for the forthcoming ZS7?
> 
> Only thing I own in the KZ range is the ZS3 to compare too if that helps.



It really depends on what you like out of the ZS3 and what else do you desire out of the sound. 
If you desire loads of detail with pretty good extension in the treble and bass thumping energy and a nice airy sound stage, the ZS6 is a good update.
But it has its issues for some people.  

- Its fit can be an issue for some people compared to the ZS3. 
- Isolation isn't as good.
- Its treble can be too hot for many people. 
- In many processed vocal tracks, sibilance can be a major nuisance as its pretty prominent on the ZS6 compared to the ZS3.

The ZS6 is very good stuff like instrumental based music and maybe to some extent techno music ( if you can live with the treble that is.) 

If you cannot live with more than 1 of the issues above, I would suggest the AS10. It basically has everything the ZS6 has without the issues. The only drawback I can think of which is subjective is the sound stage. The ZS6 does sound that bit more open comparatively. "Airier" , though I cannót honest suggest it to be " wider", its subjective based on how your ears hear them. 

If you prefer something that has a much more "polite" treble, I would say the ZS10. 

But it does have its issues too.

- Its harder to drive in that you need to crank up the volume a fair bit for it to sound the same as most other KZ's in terms of output volume.
- Its bulbous and short tubed, so fit may be an issue for some people and harder to keep in place and maintain a good seal as a result.
- Its sound isolation is pretty poor due to fit issues for me.



scottySK said:


> I'm considering ordering a ZS6 *specifically because* they copied Campfire Audio. They look amazing, even if they only sound half as good it's worth it because they cost like 10 times less.
> 
> I think in China it may even be a show of respect to use someone else's work in this way.. even if that seems weird to us



LoL ...  if you like the looks of those, then perhaps you can take a look at the PHB-EM023


----------



## voicemaster

From what I am hearing when comparing between zs6 and zsn so far, I can noticeably hear a more forward in mid in zsn than zs6, tigher bass and non piercing treble on the zsn, but the high is still sparkling tho.


----------



## Le Stef

voicemaster said:


> From what I am hearing when comparing between zs6 and zsn so far, I can noticeably hear a more forward in mid in zsn than zs6, tigher bass and non piercing treble on the zsn, but the high is still sparkling tho.


Hi Voicemaster; how would you compare the ZSR to the ZSN?  I have ordered the ZSR, but I've read here that the ZS4 might have better, punchier bass (which I am looking for), and now I read good things about the ZSN... Knowing that the ZS6 is praised for the excellent quality and punch of its bass, I'm very confused now that you say the ZSN is better! I currently have the ES4, I like it, but its bass only comes to life with my desktop, not so much with my DAP (Cayin N3).  I'm hoping the ZSR will do better, but would the ZSN do EVEN better?


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 29, 2018)

Le Stef said:


> Hi Voicemaster; how would you compare the ZSR to the ZSN?  I have ordered the ZSR, but I've read here that the ZS4 might have better, punchier bass (which I am looking for), and now I read good things about the ZSN... Knowing that the ZS6 is praised for the excellent quality and punch of its bass, I'm very confused now that you say the ZSN is better! I currently have the ES4, I like it, but its bass only comes to life with my desktop, not so much with my DAP (Cayin N3).  I'm hoping the ZSR will do better, but would the ZSN do EVEN better?


ZSN has more forward mid than ZSR, treble on ZSN also much more sparkly than ZSR, bass about the same, ZSN sounds more airy and spacious than ZSR (maybe because of more sparkly treble), wider soundstage on ZSN. That's what i got from comparing ZSn and ZSR.
For me, ZSN is like a combination of ZS6 and ZSR which is tight and punchy bass of ZSR, sparkly treble of ZS6 minus the piercing and move the mid a little more forward and body than ZS6. Build and fit also the best compared to ZS6 and ZSR. ZSR hurt my ear after awhile, while ZS6 feels like the IEM wants to drop from my ear (maybe because the weight?).


----------



## SomeEntityThing

I'm very happy with my KZ ED16 - nice, balanced sound sig reminding me somewhat of my Tin Audio T2. I'm looking to snag a cheap KZ with a V-shaped sound sig to shake up the offerings from my current functioning bunch of IEMs...  and being interested in the ZSN's sound sig, is it worth the buy at $20 CAD (I'm hoping to get the mic model)? Regarding other KZ IEMs that may have a V-shaped sound sig as well, I don't own the KZ ZSR, ZS6, or ZSA, fyi.


----------



## voicemaster

SomeEntityThing said:


> I'm very happy with my KZ ED16 - nice, balanced sound sig reminding me somewhat of my Tin Audio T2. I'm looking to snag a cheap KZ with a V-shaped sound sig to shake up the offerings from my current functioning bunch of IEMs...  and being interested in the ZSN's sound sig, is it worth the buy at $20 CAD (I'm hoping to get the mic model)? Regarding other KZ IEMs that may have a V-shaped sound sig as well, I don't own the KZ ZSR, ZS6, or ZSA, fyi.


I would say from my experience with KZ ZS3, ZST, ZSR and ZS6, the ZSN comes out on top. It is like they put all the good stuffs from previous KZ ZS line into ZSN. And for only $23, you can't go wrong.


----------



## blur.png

Bad-Choices said:


> Thinking of dipping into the ZS6, is the jump worth it or wait for the forthcoming ZS7?
> 
> Only thing I own in the KZ range is the ZS3 to compare too if that helps.


from the user of the ZS6 i reccomend switching the tips to foam tips and an impedance adapter (8 ohm is enough) just to tame the sibilance and treble to the point that i dont mind (personally), its a good iem, it feels wide & detailed


----------



## Le Stef

voicemaster said:


> ZSN has more forward mid than ZSR, treble on ZSN also much more sparkly than ZSR, bass about the same, ZSN sounds more airy and spacious than ZSR (maybe because of more sparkly treble), wider soundstage on ZSN. That's what i got from comparing ZSn and ZSR.
> For me, ZSN is like a combination of ZS6 and ZSR which is tight and punchy bass of ZSR, sparkly treble of ZS6 minus the piercing and move the mid a little more forward and body than ZS6. Build and fit also the best compared to ZS6 and ZSR. ZSR hurt my ear after awhile, while ZS6 feels like the IEM wants to drop from my ear (maybe because the weight?).


Thanks, that is very informative; it sounds KZ has found the right combination


----------



## mbwilson111

Le Stef said:


> Thanks, that is very informative; it sounds KZ has found the right combination



You guys are making me want the ZSN.  I was not going to get any more KZs as I already have several.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Really sounds like ZSN mighty be a bonifide daily driver. Tight fast bass, forward mids, good treble, good fit? Really looking for a good ZST replacement. I can wear that iem all day and never feel it. Its the only hybrid KZ that disappears in my ears.


----------



## 1clearhead

SomeEntityThing said:


> I'm very happy with my KZ ED16 - nice, balanced sound sig reminding me somewhat of my Tin Audio T2. I'm looking to snag a cheap KZ with a V-shaped sound sig to shake up the offerings from my current functioning bunch of IEMs...  and being interested in the ZSN's sound sig, is it worth the buy at $20 CAD (I'm hoping to get the mic model)? Regarding other KZ IEMs that may have a V-shaped sound sig as well, I don't own the KZ ZSR, ZS6, or ZSA, fyi.


Yes, the KZ ZSN is totally worth it! I own the ED16 as well, plus two ZSN's, Cyan/black and Purple/Silver and the ZSN fits right into my collection of KZ's. I personally think the ZSN can perform excellent treble with almost any harsh peaks and sounds like a full-size powerhouse headphone. The construction and beauty is priceless compared to many of KZ's other plastic housed IEM's.

I will give an impression of my two ZSN's later during the week. 


-Clear


----------



## randomnin

blur.png said:


> from the user of the ZS6 i reccomend switching the tips to foam tips and an impedance adapter (8 ohm is enough) just to tame the sibilance and treble to the point that i dont mind (personally), its a good iem, it feels wide & detailed


Reference Audio Analyzer has extensively measured ZS6 and, while it shows decreased upper frequencies with increased impedance, the effects are somewhat modest, ranging -3 to -6 dB starting from 10kHz, depending on impedance 10 to 300 ohm accordingly.


----------



## Mellowship

BadReligionPunk said:


> Really sounds like ZSN mighty be a bonifide daily driver. Tight fast bass, forward mids, good treble, good fit? Really looking for a good ZST replacement. I can wear that iem all day and never feel it. Its the only hybrid KZ that disappears in my ears.



I... will... not... buy... another... KZ...    

Guys (and girls... ), I'm resisting the ZSN... need help... 

Just got the AS10 recently.... C'mon...


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

Mellowship said:


> I... will... not... buy... another... KZ...
> 
> Guys (and girls... ), I'm resisting the ZSN... need help...
> 
> Just got the AS10 recently.... C'mon...


The KZ syndrome has hit you hard. My condolences to your wallet.


----------



## phrancini

Mellowship said:


> I... will... not... buy... another... KZ...
> 
> Guys (and girls... ), I'm resisting the ZSN... need help...
> 
> Just got the AS10 recently.... C'mon...



I feel you... I got ZSN, ZSR and AS10 on the way, but the I feel the need to buy some more on 11.11


----------



## HungryPanda

Mellowship said:


> I... will... not... buy... another... KZ...
> 
> Guys (and girls... ), I'm resisting the ZSN... need help...
> 
> Just got the AS10 recently.... C'mon...


Got an AS10, you know this rabbit hole wants you to dive in and get the goodies


----------



## voicemaster

What is this 11.11 you guys are talking about??

Anyway, my it01 came a day before ZSN and I have been doing some comparison between the two (I know they are $99 and $23, so not apple to apple, but it's fun). From all my kz collection, the ZSN is the one that sounds close to it01. The bass on it01 is good and punchy but in some songs it can be a tiny bit too much while zsn has less impact, but I find it is perfect amount of bass. Into the mid, it01 is more forward and has a little bit more low mid that make vocal sound a little bit thicker ala shure (not as much as shure tho), while zsn has a thinner vocal, but it also add airiness to it. Treble is almost the same for both, maybe a tad more detail on it01 or less grainy.


----------



## HungryPanda

11:11 is the aliexpress big sale day, similar to black Friday


----------



## mbwilson111

voicemaster said:


> What is this 11.11 you guys are talking about??
> 
> Anyway, my it01 came a day before ZSN and I have been doing some comparison between the two (I know they are $99 and $23, so not apple to apple, but it's fun). From all my kz collection, the ZSN is the one that sounds close to it01. The bass on it01 is good and punchy but in some songs it can be a tiny bit too much while zsn has less impact, but I find it is perfect amount of bass. Into the mid, it01 is more forward and has a little bit more low mid that make vocal sound a little bit thicker ala shure (not as much as shure tho), while zsn has a thinner vocal, but it also add airiness to it. Treble is almost the same for both, maybe a tad more detail on it01 or less grainy.



Thanks for that.  I was being tempted by the ZSN but I already have the iBasso IT01.   Are there situations in which you would choose to use the ZSN instead of the IT01?


----------



## blur.png

is there any kz like the ES4 i kinda like it more than the zs6 though its more fatiguing than zs6 (i guess because the slightly boosted bass & more intimate soundstage), is the as10 worth it or better go for a zsn ?


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> What is this 11.11 you guys are talking about??





HungryPanda said:


> 11:11 is the aliexpress big sale day, similar to black Friday



I call it ‘crack day’.


----------



## voicemaster

Well, I feel I need to be more careful with my it01 not because of the build quality is bad or anything, but the more expensive price tag makes me feel I need to baby it more lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

voicemaster said:


> Well, I feel I need to be more careful with my it01 not because of the build quality is bad or anything, but the more expensive price tag makes me feel I need to baby it more lol.



I know what you mean.  That cable is so beautiful that I don't want anything to happen to it.  I think we do have to be careful with the mmcx connectors...not to pull on them.


----------



## kukkurovaca

voicemaster said:


> Well, I feel I need to be more careful with my it01 not because of the build quality is bad or anything, but the more expensive price tag makes me feel I need to baby it more lol.



They're pretty sturdy. I bounced mine off a hard tile floor from head height and all that happened is one of the grills popped out. Not that I'd recommend this method of removing the grill, of course, but...


----------



## Tonwiki

groucho69 said:


> If it is a ZK issue post it hear...
> 
> Welcome and sorry about your wallet.



Thx! Well... my zs3 left side stopped working when I was using it and I can't think of anything that could make it stop. First I thought that was the cable but after testing wiht the right side and the zs5 that I have, it worked nomarly. After I tried another cables with the device and it didn't work, I concluded that was a problem with it. So, I would like to know if it has a guide to fix it.


----------



## Slater

Tonwiki said:


> Thx! Well... my zs3 left side stopped working when I was using it and I can't think of anything that could make it stop. First I thought that was the cable but after testing wiht the right side and the zs5 that I have, it worked nomarly. After I tried another cables with the device and it didn't work, I concluded that was a problem with it. So, I would like to know if it has a guide to fix it.



That was a known QC issue with the ZS3. They had a bad batch about a year or so ago. The driver just randomly dies. There is no way to fix it.

You could reuse the shell and install new drivers. Or use them for spare parts (cable, tips, etc).


----------



## mono-type (Oct 30, 2018)

Slater said:


> That was a known QC issue with the ZS3. They had a bad batch about a year or so ago. The driver just randomly dies. There is no way to fix it.
> 
> You could reuse the shell and install new drivers. Or use them for spare parts (cable, tips, etc).


Hmmm...so that's why the two ZS3's I bought so far (one last year, the other in 1st quarter 2018) suddenly had the left driver stopped working 5-6 months later (in my case, it's always the left driver for some reason). Such a shame, I love the ZS3 for the isolation and the bass. Good thing there's ZS4, in which I hope doesn't have the same fate as its predecessor when it comes to QC.


----------



## CoiL

voicemaster said:


> Anyway, my it01 came a day before ZSN and I have been doing some comparison between the two (I know they are $99 and $23, so not apple to apple, but it's fun). *From all my kz collection, the ZSN is the one that sounds close to it01.* *The bass on it01 is good and punchy but in some songs it can be a tiny bit too much while zsn has less impact, but I find it is perfect amount of bass.* Into the mid, it01 is more forward and has a little bit more low mid that make vocal sound a little bit thicker ala shure (not as much as shure tho), while zsn has a thinner vocal, but it also add airiness to it. Treble is almost the same for both, maybe a tad more detail on it01 or less grainy.


IT01 requires at least 150h playtime to settle down on bass and it becomes more balanced and detailed. 
But it`s good to hear that ZSN offers similar sound signature with much less price... maybe I still have to buy ZSN too and mod it close as possible to IT01 but I`m holding back due to many reviews/impressions. Will wait for more.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> ZSN has more forward mid than ZSR, treble on ZSN also much more sparkly than ZSR, bass about the same, ZSN sounds more airy and spacious than ZSR (maybe because of more sparkly treble), wider soundstage on ZSN. That's what i got from comparing ZSn and ZSR.
> For me, ZSN is like a combination of ZS6 and ZSR which is tight and punchy bass of ZSR, sparkly treble of ZS6 minus the piercing and move the mid a little more forward and body than ZS6. Build and fit also the best compared to ZS6 and ZSR. ZSR hurt my ear after awhile, while ZS6 feels like the IEM wants to drop from my ear (maybe because the weight?).


Which ZSN did you get? Did you get the Black/Black, Purple/Silver, or the Cyan/Black?


----------



## vegetaleb

@Slater 
Are all trn bt cables the same? If no which one is the best for kz zs3 and zsr?


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> Hmmm...so that's why the two ZS3's I bought so far (one last year, the other in 1st quarter 2018) suddenly had the left driver stopped working 5-6 months later (in my case, it's always the left driver for some reason). Such a shame, I love the ZS3 for the isolation and the bass. Good thing there's ZS4, in which I hope doesn't have the same fate as its predecessor when it comes to QC.



Yup, that’s exactly why.

The ZS4 won’t suffer the same fate, so no worries there. ZS4 uses a different dynamic driver.


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> @Slater
> Are all trn bt cables the same? If no which one is the best for kz zs3 and zsr?



There’s 3 different TRN Bluetooth cables:

1. BT3 without aptX
2. BT3 with aptX
3. BT10

They are also releasing a new one in November - fully wireless!

As far as which one is best, 2 or 3 are good IMO.

I should mention that many people find that the ZS3 doesn’t sound very good via Bluetooth. I assume the Bluetooth cables just can’t give it enough power. My ZS3 sounds best wired and amped.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

Slater said:


> There’s 3 different TRN Bluetooth cables:
> 
> 1. BT3 without aptX
> 2. BT3 with aptX
> ...


Is it gonna be a fully wireless iem or cable like attachment of some sort? Either way if they pull it off it will be pretty impressive


----------



## phrancini (Oct 30, 2018)

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Is it gonna be a fully wireless iem or cable like attachment of some sort? Either way if they pull it off it will be pretty impressive


Based on a photo I saw, it should be two receivers, one for each side and they go around the ear

Edit: I tried to find the photo which is buried in this or in another post, with no luck.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

phrancini said:


> Based on a photo I saw, it should be two receivers, one for each side and they go around the ear


Wow, I am hyped up now. Will definitely buy them then


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 30, 2018)

A quick notice for all those planning to buy the *KZ ZSN *

The Purple/Silver ZSN has a slight difference in sound signature due to the cable that it comes with. The cable is slightly thicker and lighter in color than the one that comes with the Cyan/black and Black ZSN, which is darker and slightly thinner. With the thicker/lighter colored cable that comes with the Purple/Silver ZSN, the sound comes through as a more well balanced IEM. It's so nicely done that I am at cloud nine with such a brilliant sound signature. Now, with the darker cable that comes with the Cyan/Black and Black ZSN, expect the bass to slightly sound thicker with warmer vocals while still maintaining hi-end details.

So, in the end, if the purple/silver ZSN cost slightly more it's due to the cables slight difference to the other 2 models.


----------



## vegetaleb (Oct 30, 2018)

Thanks @Slater
I should pick the 0.75 or 0.78 pins?
Should I get the ZS4 if I have both ZS3 and ZSR, I mean do they give an extra SQ?


----------



## randomnin

1clearhead said:


> A quick notice for all those planning to buy the *KZ ZSN *
> 
> The Purple/Silver ZSN has a slight difference in sound signature due to the cable that it comes with. The cable is slightly thicker and lighter in color than the one that comes with the Cyan/black and Black ZSN, which is darker and slightly thinner. With the thicker/lighter colored cable that comes with the Purple/Silver ZSN, the sound comes through as a more well balanced IEM. It's so nicely done that I am at cloud nine with such a brilliant sound signature. Now, with the darker cable that comes with the Cyan/Black and Black ZSN, expect the bass to slightly sound thicker with warmer vocals while still maintaining hi-end details.
> 
> So, in the end, if the purple/silver ZSN cost slightly more it's due to the cables slight difference to the other 2 models.


Pictures of the cables, please. That's a weird difference, though. What is KZ up to?


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> A quick notice for all those planning to buy the *KZ ZSN *
> 
> The Purple/Silver ZSN has a slight difference in sound signature due to the cable that it comes with. The cable is slightly thicker and lighter in color than the one that comes with the Cyan/black and Black ZSN, which is darker and slightly thinner. With the thicker/lighter colored cable that comes with the Purple/Silver ZSN, the sound comes through as a more well balanced IEM. It's so nicely done that I am at cloud nine with such a brilliant sound signature. Now, with the darker cable that comes with the Cyan/Black and Black ZSN, expect the bass to slightly sound thicker with warmer vocals while still maintaining hi-end details.
> 
> So, in the end, if the purple/silver ZSN cost slightly more it's due to the cables slight difference to the other 2 models.



Can You please post pics and corresponding* impedance measurements* of cables? If there is noticeable difference in impedance then there`s proof of sound difference.


----------



## SiggyFraud

In the official images the cables are visibly of a different colour, but the nozzles look as if they're from a different material too. I wonder if this could be a factor.


----------



## 1clearhead

SiggyFraud said:


> In the official images the cables are visibly of a different colour, but the nozzles look as if they're from a different material too. I wonder if this could be a factor.


+1 This can be true, since I picked up on that as well.


----------



## 1clearhead

randomnin said:


> Pictures of the cables, please. That's a weird difference, though. What is KZ up to?


I will try to provide PIC's _ASAP_...


----------



## Makahl (Oct 30, 2018)

Indeed there's a difference aesthetic-wise. From twitter: 





>


----------



## tuanathon

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks @Slater
> I should pick the 0.75 or 0.78 pins?
> Should I get the ZS4 if I have both ZS3 and ZSR, I mean do they give an extra SQ?



you want the 0.75 version.


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> A quick notice for all those planning to buy the *KZ ZSN *
> 
> The Purple/Silver ZSN has a slight difference in sound signature due to the cable that it comes with. The cable is slightly thicker and lighter in color than the one that comes with the Cyan/black and Black ZSN, which is darker and slightly thinner. With the thicker/lighter colored cable that comes with the Purple/Silver ZSN, the sound comes through as a more well balanced IEM. It's so nicely done that I am at cloud nine with such a brilliant sound signature. Now, with the darker cable that comes with the Cyan/Black and Black ZSN, expect the bass to slightly sound thicker with warmer vocals while still maintaining hi-end details.
> 
> So, in the end, if the purple/silver ZSN cost slightly more it's due to the cables slight difference to the other 2 models.


I got Black/Black ZSN. It is interesting to see different cable for different colored IEM from same model. Tempted to get the purple/silver ZSN now.


----------



## voicemaster

Btw the ZSN sounds awesome with this track


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> I got Black/Black ZSN. It is interesting to see different cable for different colored IEM from same model. Tempted to get the purple/silver ZSN now.


,
Actually, because of the cable that comes with the purple/silver ZSN, they personally sound the best for me.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> ,
> 
> Actually, because of the cable that comes with the purple/silver ZSN, they personally sound the best for me.



You are not helping.  I am trying to NOT want them.   You know... purple.....

These reviews.   I saw somewhere that there was a code to get it for $14 but not sure if it is active.


----------



## B9Scrambler

voicemaster said:


> Btw the ZSN sounds awesome with this track




Sick track. That guitar duel was fire, lol.


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

mbwilson111 said:


> You are not helping.  I am trying to NOT want them.   You know... purple.....
> 
> These reviews.   I saw somewhere that there was a code to get it for $14 but not sure if it is active.


It probably is. Instructions are on audiobudget fb page. I have just tried it and I am waiting to see if it works.


----------



## voicemaster

I just ordered the purple/silver zsn for $20.99. Thank God its not $99+.


----------



## 1clearhead

Here's the actual differences with the wires and nozzles for the purple/silver and cyan/black ZSN...

If you have both, you'll definitely hear the difference with both wires. It might not be night and day, but it was noticeable enough for me to hear that the dark wire makes the ZSN sound a bit thicker in the bass region and provide a warmer vocal tone to the MID region, while the lighter wire provides less in both areas giving it a better balance throughout the whole signature.

 
   

Hope this helps...


-Clear


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> f you have both, you'll definitely hear the difference with both wires. It might not be night and day, but it was noticeable enough for me to hear that the dark wire makes the ZSN sound a bit thicker in the bass region and provide a warmer vocal tone to the MID region, while the lighter wire provides less in both areas giving it a better balance throughout the whole signature.



Do you like both?   I would want the purple... because... purple    I do like a balanced signature but I adapt to many signatures.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> I just ordered the purple/silver zsn for $20.99. Thank God its not $99+.


Enjoy them! Well worth the money!


----------



## voicemaster

B9Scrambler said:


> Sick track. That guitar duel was fire, lol.




I love the drum sound from bandmaid.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you like both?   I would want the purple... because... purple    I do like a balanced signature but I adapt to many signatures.


Yup!...love both! Can't go wrong with either!


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> Enjoy them! Well worth the money!


Lol its only $20


----------



## voicemaster

It is amazing how $20 iem can give you nowadays. Awesome build quality, sound, detachable and braided cable. Back when I just joined this forum, for this price range, you can only get sennheiser cx series and its nowhere near the price/performance of todays offerings.


----------



## kukkurovaca

1clearhead said:


> Here's the actual differences with the wires and nozzles for the purple/silver and cyan/black ZSN...
> 
> If you have both, you'll definitely hear the difference with both wires. It might not be night and day, but it was noticeable enough for me to hear that the dark wire makes the ZSN sound a bit thicker in the bass region and provide a warmer vocal tone to the MID region, while the lighter wire provides less in both areas giving it a better balance throughout the whole signature.
> 
> ...



Just to clarify, have you swapped the cables between the units when testing?


----------



## Yesin

Zerohour88 said:


> tried switching the earpiece around to see if its just the cable or the IEM? 1.5 years is quite decent for a 15 bux or so IEM? I've had more expensive IEMs fall apart faster than that


Yep. I tried. The issue is with the cable extending from the mic housing to the right bud.


----------



## Yesin

Slater said:


> KZ had a defective batch of ZS3, and it’s been about 1-1.5 years now. My bet is yours came from that batch
> 
> If you like the fit and sound of the ZS3, my recommendation would be the ZS4. It’s basically the ZS3 on steroids.
> 
> Otherwise, if you are willing to spend a bit more, the TRN V80 would be a significant upgrade to the ZS3 and the ZS4. I just got a set, and wow the hype is totally justified on them.


I quite enjoyed having the ZS3 yes. the ZS4 and TRN V80 sounds exciting. I'll be sure to check 'em out Slater.
Thanks


----------



## 1clearhead

kukkurovaca said:


> Just to clarify, have you swapped the cables between the units when testing?


Definitely...

To me personally, the better cable is the lighter color braided cable.


----------



## nxnje

Hey guys, after returning the kz zs6 i'm quite sad
I wanna buy a cheap earphone and i had a look on the kz hd9 that are just sold for like 2 euros.
Any impressions on that? 
I've read there are 2 versions.
How can i know if that is the v2 version?


----------



## Zerohour88

Yesin said:


> Yep. I tried. The issue is with the cable extending from the mic housing to the right bud.



basically you can just change to new cables to get it working again?

then again, since its 11.11 sale, you can get a new KZ for the price of a cable, lol


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 1, 2018)

Who ever is interested, KZ now sells a "white/silver cable" for the ZSN! 

I ordered one earlier in the day 

Links...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...=2&is_b=1&rn=039f8d23bf3b7ba59d5273ead68ac75d






-Clear


----------



## Qualcheduno

nxnje said:


> Hey guys, after returning the kz zs6 i'm quite sad
> I wanna buy a cheap earphone and i had a look on the kz hd9 that are just sold for like 2 euros.
> Any impressions on that?
> I've read there are 2 versions.
> How can i know if that is the v2 version?


https://thecontraptionist.blog/2016...-place-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-3/
Here's a brief review of the HD9 by member @B9Scrambler.


----------



## Tonwiki

Slater said:


> That was a known QC issue with the ZS3. They had a bad batch about a year or so ago. The driver just randomly dies. There is no way to fix it.
> 
> You could reuse the shell and install new drivers. Or use them for spare parts (cable, tips, etc).


Thx for the help! I will cry a little and try that.


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> Who ever is interested, KZ now sells a "white/silver cable" for the ZSN!
> 
> I ordered one earlier in the day
> 
> ...



Did they mention if it would oxidize and turn green like the rest of their clear sheath SP cables? I'd rather just put a black SP cable on my black face ZSN's. do they also offer it in black?


----------



## Podster

maxxevv said:


> It really depends on what you like out of the ZS3 and what else do you desire out of the sound.
> If you desire loads of detail with pretty good extension in the treble and bass thumping energy and a nice airy sound stage, the ZS6 is a good update.
> But it has its issues for some people.
> 
> ...



Now who's copying who! 

I hear you bad religion, I've made three carts and culled them twice now! When I pull the trigger on 11/11 my $145.00 cart will only cost me $98 for 4 iem's and a nice ic


----------



## antdroid

Its hard to tell from the photos but to me it looks like one is a dark brown sheath and the only is transparent clear. I dont think that is really proof that they are different coppers. Copper can also quickly oxidize and turn brown on the outside versus the shiny metallic color. This only affects the outer surface and not the inherent material underneath. Heat treat can also affect color change. Now, from a scientific point of view, I dont know if bulk resistance or surface resistance affects electrical transmission more for analog audio.


----------



## Slater

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Is it gonna be a fully wireless iem or cable like attachment of some sort? Either way if they pull it off it will be pretty impressive



Fully wireless.

Each piece sits behind the ears, like a hearing aid. There’s a photo floating around here if you search for it.


----------



## Slater (Oct 30, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks @Slater
> I should pick the 0.75 or 0.78 pins?
> Should I get the ZS4 if I have both ZS3 and ZSR, I mean do they give an extra SQ?



I think the pins on the TRN are the same. I think they list 0.75 _and_ 0.78 to sell upgrade cables to the KZ folks that need 0.75 _and_ to the other folks who have 0.78 IEMs (more of the industry standard size). Just pick one and go for it. They are basically interchangeable.

As far as the ZS4, it is definitely better than the ZS3.

As far as having better sound than the ZSR, that’s kinda a toss up. The ZSR has better midrange. But it fits bulky and has a huge nozzle. The ZS4 definitely fits better (for most people). And IMO ZS4 has better bass and better isolation, but at the expense of the soundstage. I like the ZSRs soundstage.

If I had to rank them, given not just the sound but also the value/price ratio and fit, I would go:

1. ZS4
2. ZSR
3. ZS3

But 1 vs 2 is very close; almost a tie. The ZS4 would edge out the ZSR due to the better price, better fit, and more isolation. But ZS4 is more v-shaped than ZSR, so if you want a more shallow v-shape stick with the ZSR.

I don’t have the ZSN yet, so it’s possible it’s better than all 3.

KZ has so many models now, that many of them are just side grades. They all have good build quality, good fit, good accessories, and better than average sound. However, most KZs sound similar with minor nuanced differences between them.

A lot of it is splitting hairs. Like the difference between a vanilla cake with dark chocolate frosting vs a vanilla cake with milk chocolate frosting. Sure, the cakes are different, but not really _that_ different.

I’m sure there’s a “big difference” between the EDR1 and the AS10, but it’s 20xs the price. But there’s not a “big enough difference” between the ZS5 v2 vs ZS6, the ZS4 vs ZSR, the EDR1 vs EDSE, ATE vs ATR, etc.

Bottom line, is if you have the ZSR, and you’re perfectly happy with it and there’s nothing wrong with it (sound, fitment, it’s not flaking out, etc), I’d pass on the ZS4. Maybe instead spend the same $12 you would have spent on the ZS4, and put it towards a Bluetooth cable, or a wired upgrade cable, some better tips, a couple of nice carry cases, etc.


----------



## Podster

Oh I really don’t think oxidation causes much degradation in SQ but it totally messes with my visual senses something fierce I really loved that Tri-Braid cable and it looked so good on most of my KZ’s until they tarned! Gave all of them away


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Or a vanilla cake with dark chocolate frosting vs a vanilla cake with milk chocolate frosting. Sure, the cakes are different, but not really _that_ different.



Disagree!  LOL.  But I would choose caramel... 

Maybe iems are like a box of chocolates...


----------



## eclein

The black on black ZSN is ready for me to grab....they look so awesome I must have them!!!!!!!


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> In the official images the cables are visibly of a different colour, but the nozzles look as if they're from a different material too. I wonder if this could be a factor.



One of the ads I saw listed the purple ones nozzle as aluminum and the black/green ones as copper.

Unfortunately, “copper” can be mislabeled. It could just be copper colored (as in gold anozided aluminum), not copper metal.


----------



## Slater (Oct 30, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> I just ordered the purple/silver zsn for $20.99. Thank God its not $99+.



Yikes, I just paid $14.95 for purple/silver. Where did you order it from out of curiosity?

That $6 could get 6 TRN carry cases, or a set of Spinfits and a TRN carry case, or even an upgrade cable 

Although it is only a couple of bucks at the end of the day haha


----------



## Slater (Oct 30, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Disagree!  LOL.  But I would choose caramel...
> 
> Maybe iems are like a box of chocolates...



I know. You know what I’m saying. Yes, the 2 cakes are technically different, but here’s 2 cakes that ARE truly different (enough to justify a 5x price difference and huge taste difference):

1. Single layer vanilla cake from a boxed pre-made mix (w/artificially flavored vanilla), with grocery store dark chocolate frosting from a jar (also artificially flavored).

2. Triple layer carrot cake (made from scratch), with real cream cheese frosting (also from scratch) and 24k gold leaf decoration.

See what I mean? #2 yummy!!


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I know. You know what I’m saying. Yes, the 2 cakes are technically different, but here’s 2 cakes that ARE truly different (enough to justify a 5x price difference and huge taste difference):
> 
> 1. Single layer vanilla cake from a boxed mix (artificially flavored vanilla), with grocery store dark chocolate frosting from a jar (also artificially flavored).
> 
> ...



Of course... I was just messing with you.  But it is true that I am sensitive to small differences... not just large ones.  But I would not want that first cake anywhere near me... gross!

By the way you can leave off the 24k gold leaf decoration.  I will take some gold on the side   I have made that carrot cake many times (minus the gold)


----------



## RolledOff

I wonder if this ZSN has any similarity with ZSE, ZSR, ZSA ... well it's KZ with their naming scheme lol


----------



## voicemaster

Fron my experience, the zs line up shared similar sound signature (v-shaped). I can tell there is a definite upgrade from zs3 (1 dd) to zst (1dd +1ba) to zsr (2ba +1dd).


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Yikes, I just paid $14.95 for purple/silver. Where did you order it from out of curiosity?
> 
> That $6 could get 6 TRN carry cases, or a set of Spinfits and a TRN carry case, or even an upgrade cable
> 
> Although it is only a couple of bucks at the end of the day haha


I ordered thru amazon


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> Did they mention if it would oxidize and turn green like the rest of their clear sheath SP cables? I'd rather just put a black SP cable on my black face ZSN's. do they also offer it in black?


True, we all have to be careful. 
My Tinaudio T2 turned on me (green ) a while back and I ended up purchasing a dark/gray colored cable for this model. So far, I haven't seen them offer the ZSN cables in black.

-Clear


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

Price adjusting on the zsn does work.


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> True, we all have to be careful.
> My Tinaudio T2 turned on me (green ) a while back and I ended up purchasing a dark/gray colored cable for this model. So far, I haven't seen them offer the ZSN cables in black.
> 
> -Clear



BTW, I am working on a permanent solution to the 'green cable' problem. Stay tuned...


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> BTW, I am working on a permanent solution to the 'green cable' problem. Stay tuned...


----------



## TLDRonin

ssnjrthgr8 said:


> Price adjusting on the zsn does work.


How did you get the $4 Aliexpress savings?


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> BTW, I am working on a permanent solution to the 'green cable' problem. Stay tuned...


----------



## antdroid (Oct 30, 2018)

Slater said:


> BTW, I am working on a permanent solution to the 'green cable' problem. Stay tuned...



The answer to this is to avoid all UV and oxygen, or to wrap it with new tubing


----------



## voicemaster

antdroid said:


> The answer to this is to avoid all UV and oxygen, or to wrap it with new tubing


100% gold cable solve that problem easy.


----------



## TLDRonin

antdroid said:


> The answer to this is to avoid all UV and oxygen, or to wrap it with new tubing


Good thing I live in outer space. New tubing sounds too difficult


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> I think the pins on the TRN are the same. I think they list 0.75 _and_ 0.78 to sell upgrade cables to the KZ folks that need 0.75 _and_ to the other folks who have 0.78 IEMs (more of the industry standard size). Just pick one and go for it. They are basically interchangeable.
> 
> As far as the ZS4, it is definitely better than the ZS3.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the details
That's the thing, the ZSR sound very good but they don't fit in my ears, I bought them for sports but they will pop out without even an effort, the ZS3 in opposite are perfectly fit though a bit annoying after an hour or so.
I am just worried about the ZS4 ''semi'' memory wire cable, I love my ZS3 because of its perfect memory wire that won't let the iem move 1mm


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> The answer to this is to avoid all UV and oxygen, or to wrap it with new tubing



You are correct - that would prevent it from turning green in the 1st place. Once it's already green, there is obviously no undoing the oxidation. I'm working on a way to address the problem another way (that does not involve wrapping it).


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks for the details
> That's the thing, the ZSR sound very good but they don't fit in my ears, I bought them for sports but they will pop out without even an effort, the ZS3 in opposite are perfectly fit though a bit annoying after an hour or so.
> I am just worried about the ZS4 ''semi'' memory wire cable, I love my ZS3 because of its perfect memory wire that won't let the iem move 1mm



The good news is the ZS4 metal memory wire is the same type as your ZS3. The cable itself is different (braided vs non-braided), but the memory wire is the same.

The TRN and KZ ZSN cables are the different style - they have a pre-formed rubbery ear guide instead of a moldable wire.

And since you explained why you can't use the ZSR (fit issues), then yes I would get a ZS4 as it would be a nice upgrade over your ZS3. Same fit you know and love - just better sound and better cable.


----------



## Podster (Oct 31, 2018)

Slater said:


> BTW, I am working on a permanent solution to the 'green cable' problem. Stay tuned...



Well I'm all eyes! My initial solution was to use a much better silver cable off another iem (Mee PX) balanced as well but finally ended up with this sweet Tommy Two-Toner








Also wanted to put my $.02 in on the Brass Filter on ZSN, looks very much brass to me ala ED9's of old The one thing I do love about brass if there is any ringing in the SS it pretty much eliminates it


----------



## s8grave (Oct 31, 2018)

Not again.. ZSN ordered... Why??? I don't need them! There is no cure for KZ plague 
Anyone who already got them, what KZ are they sound like?
One youtube reviewer says it sound similar to ZST, does it?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

TLDRonin said:


> How did you get the $4 Aliexpress savings?


Its the $4 new user coupon. Had a spare aliexpress account laying around for a long time. Decided to use that for this order.


----------



## B9Scrambler

s8grave said:


> Not again.. ZSN ordered... Why??? I don't need them! There is no cure for KZ plague
> Anyone who already got them, what KZ are they sound like?
> One youtube reviewer says it sound similar to ZST, does it?



https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/10/26/kz-zsn-20-has-never-gone-so-far/


----------



## Mellowship

I made a hard decision to skip the ZSN and more forthcoming KZ models until something really new and spectacular appeared. My last KZ was the AS10, and got it because it's all BAs. I cannot keep spending money on IEMs I will not be using as often as I would like. Lately I've been using ZS5v1, ZS4, ZS3 (very 1st gen, tweaked with metal grille and Zyrcon's silicone tips), AS10 and, sometimes, the 1st gen. ATE. All different, all great. 
I have too many IEMs by now, and some that I wanted to use more frequently...
But I'll be keeping an eye on this thread!


----------



## Podster

s8grave said:


> Not again.. ZSN ordered... Why??? I don't need them! There is no cure for KZ plague
> Anyone who already got them, what KZ are they sound like?
> One youtube reviewer says it sound similar to ZST, does it?



By what I've been reading it's considered a refined ZST and most noted was the smoothness of the treble as opposed to ZST, there is no cure and my Black on black ZSN's have not even gotten to me yet and I've already put a silver/purple pair in my 11/11 cart (not to mention the other 6 iem's I've got in it) 

I HATE KZ


----------



## voicemaster

s8grave said:


> Not again.. ZSN ordered... Why??? I don't need them! There is no cure for KZ plague
> Anyone who already got them, what KZ are they sound like?
> One youtube reviewer says it sound similar to ZST, does it?


ZSN is like ZST and ZS6 had a love child.


----------



## voicemaster

Mellowship said:


> I made a hard decision to skip the ZSN and more forthcoming KZ models until something really new and spectacular appeared. My last KZ was the AS10, and got it because it's all BAs. I cannot keep spending money on IEMs I will not be using as often as I would like. Lately I've been using ZS5v1, ZS4, ZS3 (very 1st gen, tweaked with metal grille and Zyrcon's silicone tips), AS10 and, sometimes, the 1st gen. ATE. All different, all great.
> I have too many IEMs by now, and some that I wanted to use more frequently...
> But I'll be keeping an eye on this thread!


U can't have too many IEMs lol


----------



## mbwilson111

voicemaster said:


> U can't have too many IEMs lol



Yes you can!  I am afraid to count mine.

...but ordered a purple ZSN today anyway.  What is wrong with me? I am NOT dissatisfied with what I already have!


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes you can!  I am afraid to count mine.
> 
> ...but ordered a purple ZSN today anyway.  What is wrong with me? I am NOT dissatisfied with what I already have!



Exactly mb, my sentiments for sure. I've posted this before but 33 iem's and still the pot grows Of course when I can muster the courage to part with one/two they always make great gifts to those who have not heard anything remotely close When I see their eyes light up the old adage of "It's better to give than receive" kicks in Hope all my fellow KZ'ers can let me slide on the others since there are 8 KZ's in this shot





This photo in my library is entitled "Can you hear them now"


----------



## CoiL

Mellowship said:


> I made a hard decision to skip the ZSN and more forthcoming KZ models until something really new and spectacular appeared. My last KZ was the AS10, and got it because it's all BAs. I cannot keep spending money on IEMs I will not be using as often as I would like. Lately I've been using ZS5v1, ZS4, ZS3 (very 1st gen, tweaked with metal grille and Zyrcon's silicone tips), AS10 and, sometimes, the 1st gen. ATE. All different, all great.
> I have too many IEMs by now, and some that I wanted to use more frequently...
> But I'll be keeping an eye on this thread!


+1

As tempting as ZSN is (teal+brass is beauty!) - I`m waiting for AS06 & ZS7 reviews... and after that I will decide if I get any of those 3 or not. 
I have stopped on modded IT01 (which is crazy good imho) and occasionally use modded ZS5v1. Also I have stocked up with 4x ATE(5thgen), which I really like out from any source and file quality.


mbwilson111 said:


> Yes you can!  I am afraid to count mine.
> ...but ordered a purple ZSN today anyway.  What is wrong with me? I am NOT dissatisfied with what I already have!


weak ...i said WEAK! ;D


----------



## voicemaster

Podster said:


> Exactly mb, my sentiments for sure. I've posted this before but 33 iem's and still the pot grows Of course when I can muster the courage to part with one/two they always make great gifts to those who have not heard anything remotely close When I see their eyes light up the old adage of "It's better to give than receive" kicks in Hope all my fellow KZ'ers can let me slide on the others since there are 8 KZ's in this shot
> 
> 
> 
> This photo in my library is entitled "Can you hear them now"


I have more IEMs than you


----------



## Podster

voicemaster said:


> I have more IEMs than you



LOL, let's just hope we are not the norm


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 31, 2018)

Podster said:


> but 33 iem's and still the pot grows



I think my pot has grown faster than yours... getting ready to count....



CoiL said:


> I`m waiting for AS06 & ZS7 reviews



I kind of forgot about those... but... purple (although the silver covers the purple when worn).  I am so confused about the ZS7 because the ED16 says ZS7 right on it so some of us thought that was it.



voicemaster said:


> I have more IEMs than you



How many do you have?   I have 100... oops.  (Seven of them are KZs but I also have the ZSN coming which has not been added to the count)


----------



## voicemaster

mbwilson111 said:


> I think my pot has grown faster than yours... getting ready to count....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have less than you luckily


----------



## Podster

As Guy would say, "Winner, winner Chicken dinner" mb Or Wayne and Garth with "we're not worthy"


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> As Guy would say, "Winner, winner Chicken dinner" mb Or Wayne and Garth with "we're not worthy"



...waiting for HungryPanda's count....


----------



## HungryPanda

oops, 121 iems, 45 earbuds & 57 headphones with more incoming


----------



## CoiL

HungryPanda said:


> oops, 121 iems, 45 earbuds & 57 headphones with more incoming



You have disease. Seriously, go to doctor and get some help! WHY... I mean WHY would You have so much IEM`s? I get it when ppl have like 30-40 for reference and reviewing... but 121 ?!?

I do not feel jealous...


----------



## HungryPanda

The list just grew........


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> You have disease. Seriously, go to doctor and get some help! WHY... I mean WHY would You have so much IEM`s? I get it when ppl have like 30-40 for reference and reviewing... but 121 ?!?
> 
> I do not feel jealous...



Don't judge. No different than any other collection.


----------



## mbwilson111

it happens by accident..  haha I just found out he just ordered a bud that I already have!  He could have had mine.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> Don't judge. No different than any other collection.



Does this mean you have more?  LOL


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> Does this mean you have more?  LOL



Was I that transparent? haha. I had around 100 before I started reviewing a couple years back... Can safely say the collection hasn't gotten any smaller.


----------



## phrancini

This Just came in the mail.. Sorry for the bad quality. 

First impression: feels way cheaper than my ZS6

this is gonna require a long listening session


----------



## Yesin

Zerohour88 said:


> basically you can just change to new cables to get it working again?
> 
> then again, since its 11.11 sale, you can get a new KZ for the price of a cable, lol


Exactly! haha


----------



## Mellowship

phrancini said:


> This Just came in the mail.. Sorry for the bad quality.
> 
> First impression: feels way cheaper than my ZS6
> 
> this is gonna require a long listening session


You gonna find the treble rolled off compared with the zs 456t, but then you'll see it's there but much more balanced. You gonna like the punchiness of the bass. You gonna like they are lighter than zs6. And more comfy.


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> The list just grew........





mbwilson111 said:


> it happens by accident..  haha I just found out he just ordered a bud that I already have!  He could have had mine.





B9Scrambler said:


> Was I that transparent? haha. I had around 100 before I started reviewing a couple years back... Can safely say the collection hasn't gotten any smaller.



I’ve been thinking of limiting myself to 1 nice headphone and 1 nice IEM per year. All of the $20 heres and $45 theres start to add up.

I figure it will keep me from getting distracted by the “flavor of the month” gear. It should also give plenty of time to sort through the impressions once the new toy syndrome wears off, for numerous reviews to come in, and for prices/discounts to stabilize.

My collection would be smaller and grow slower, but in theory would be comprised of better gear (ie less is more).

Just thinking out loud...


----------



## Mybutthurts (Oct 31, 2018)

My AS10 came yesterday and after burning them in overnight I've spent the day listening with them and comparing the to the ZS10.
They are more open, better separation and a little less forgiving in the treble than ZS10. Still a pleasing sound though could do with a bit more bass rumble that ZS10 has.
Easier to drive, with volume level down from 39/40 to 32/33 on my Fiio X1 2nd gen.
Still unsure whether they will usurp my ZS10 with its extra bass as my favourite.
Still bloody good.

Can understand why this hobby can be addicted. 4KZs bought for myself
ATE,  ED12,  ZS10 and AS10 and 2 ATEs bought for friends, who cant believe how good they are.


phrancini said:


> This Just came in the mail.. Sorry for the bad quality.
> 
> First impression: feels way cheaper than my ZS6
> 
> this is gonna require a long listening session


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> I’ve been thinking of limiting myself to 1 nice headphone and 1 nice IEM per year. All of the $20 heres and $45 theres start to add up.
> 
> I figure it will keep me from getting distracted by the “flavor of the month” gear. It should also give plenty of time to sort through the impressions once the new toy syndrome wears off, for numerous reviews to come in, and for prices/discounts to stabilize.
> 
> ...



That makes perfect sense. When I consistently bought stuff, I was looking for products that were unknown (i.e. find that hidden gem), looked cool, had interesting tech behind it, or were at one point really expensive and were now for one reason or another selling on the cheap. For example, my Sony XBA-2. Picked it up for 35 CAD when you could still buy it online for well over 200 CAD. My first BA only iem. If I relied on reviews, totally would have passed over on something I still enjoy.


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> That makes perfect sense. When I consistently bought stuff, I was looking for products that were unknown (i.e. find that hidden gem), looked cool, had interesting tech behind it, or were at one point really expensive and were now for one reason or another selling on the cheap. For example, my Sony XBA-2. Picked it up for 35 CAD when you could still buy it online for well over 200 CAD. My first BA only iem. If I relied on reviews, totally would have passed over on something I still enjoy.



Yup, I did the same when I first started out.

The problem is now years later, I have a mountain of gear, only 2 ears, and I now know exactly what I like and what I don’t.

I could easily get rid of 75% of my collection, and not miss it (other than from a nostalgia/collectibility standpoint).


----------



## NeonHD

Happy Halloween guys!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Yup, I did the same when I first started out.
> 
> The problem is I have a mountain of gear, only 2 ears, and I now know what I like and what I don’t.
> 
> I could easily get rid of 75% of my collection, and not miss it (*other than from a nostalgia/collectibility standpoint*).



That's what stops me from getting rid of a lot of it. I have given away a ton over the years, but the stuff I have left I still like to pull out and use every once in a while. Mind you, I don't give away any of the good products anymore. Normal people treat their headphones like crap and it hurts when they come back after a week saying they lost them or broke them, lol. Or if I give someone something and a couple weeks later they say they're looking for a new headphone. "What happened to the pair I just gave you?" "You gave me some headphones? I don't know what happened to them." DERP. *facepalm* I've gotten picky about what I give away, and to whom. If they're not going to appreciate it, they get nothing or something crappy cause they're going to ruin it anyway...


----------



## MyPants (Oct 31, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yup, I did the same when I first started out.
> 
> The problem is now years later, I have a mountain of gear, only 2 ears, and I now know exactly what I like and what I don’t.
> 
> I could easily get rid of 75% of my collection, and not miss it (other than from a nostalgia/collectibility standpoint).



This is exactly where I'm at with my collection. The last few years I accumulated a ton of gear trying to figure out what I wanted. Now I know what I want and have a bunch of stuff to move on down the line. Only problem is everything I want after RMAF is stupid expensive.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> That's what stops me from getting rid of a lot of it. I have given away a ton over the years, but the stuff I have left I still like to pull out and use every once in a while. Mind you, I don't give away any of the good products anymore. Normal people treat their headphones like crap and it hurts when they come back after a week saying they lost them or broke them, lol. Or if I give someone something and a couple weeks later they say they're looking for a new headphone. "What happened to the pair I just gave you?" "You gave me some headphones? I don't know what happened to them." DERP. *facepalm* I've gotten picky about what I give away, and to whom. If they're not going to appreciate it, they get nothing or something crappy cause they're going to ruin it anyway...



That is a heartbreaking story


----------



## phrancini

Mellowship said:


> You gonna find the treble rolled off compared with the zs 456t, but then you'll see it's there but much more balanced. You gonna like the punchiness of the bass. You gonna like they are lighter than zs6. And more comfy.



You are absolutely correct in every aspect. After a year my ears got kind of used to the treble of the ZS6 and I'm missing them in a certain way. The bass is better, way punchier (in a good way). Comfortwise they are one of the best I tried even though the plastic feels flimsy. 

Sound stage is wider, comparable to the one of my sr850, great separation. 

Will update my review as the time passes. 

Now, I'll wait for the zsn, zsr, and t2 to arrive ..


----------



## groucho69 (Oct 31, 2018)

Podster said:


> LOL, let's just hope we are not the norm



Who wants to be normal?


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> That's what stops me from getting rid of a lot of it. I have given away a ton over the years, but the stuff I have left I still like to pull out and use every once in a while. Mind you, I don't give away any of the good products anymore. Normal people treat their headphones like crap and it hurts when they come back after a week saying they lost them or broke them, lol. Or if I give someone something and a couple weeks later they say they're looking for a new headphone. "What happened to the pair I just gave you?" "You gave me some headphones? I don't know what happened to them." DERP. *facepalm* I've gotten picky about what I give away, and to whom. If they're not going to appreciate it, they get nothing or something crappy cause they're going to ruin it anyway...



Agreed.

I have given a few decent IEMs to my teenager (along with a nice case), and I find them balled up in her pocket, or in the clothes washer, or smashed in the bottom of her book bag, cord ripped out of the shell, etc.

So she gets $0.50 junkers from Gearbest until she’s a little more responsible.

She does a little better with headphones though, and wants Bluetooth only. She will get better ones when her current Bluedios die. They are built like tanks, so who knows when they will die. They’ve been going strong for ~2 years of daily use now.

I did retune them to be more balanced before I gave them to her, so she has better sound and doesn’t know it.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I have given a few decent IEMs to my teenager (along with a nice case), and I find them balled up in her pocket, or in the clothes washer, or smashed in the bottom of her book bag, cord ripped out of the shell, etc.
> 
> ...


I gave my LZ A2S to my sisters daughter... not long later - they were broken (probably cable ripped off from driver). They were not cheapest -.-


----------



## voicemaster

B9Scrambler said:


> That's what stops me from getting rid of a lot of it. I have given away a ton over the years, but the stuff I have left I still like to pull out and use every once in a while. Mind you, I don't give away any of the good products anymore. Normal people treat their headphones like crap and it hurts when they come back after a week saying they lost them or broke them, lol. Or if I give someone something and a couple weeks later they say they're looking for a new headphone. "What happened to the pair I just gave you?" "You gave me some headphones? I don't know what happened to them." DERP. *facepalm* I've gotten picky about what I give away, and to whom. If they're not going to appreciate it, they get nothing or something crappy cause they're going to ruin it anyway...


I only ever gave my IEMs to people whom I trust (my nephew, wife and church band members). Not many people appreciate headphone or IEM in general, they think it is just another accessory or tool. I just gave out my Audio Technica IM 70 to my church drummer.


----------



## kukkurovaca

VE Monks make a good disposable giveaway earphone. They come in cute little baggies, too, so you can just keep a bunch in your bag to hand out.


----------



## josesol07

Hi, could someone compare ZSN to ED16? From KZ I only have the ED16 which I like, except for the treble which I find too agressive for me.
 Is ZSN´s treble smoother and more polite than ED16? Or should I look for something like AS10? thanks


----------



## voicemaster

I am thinking of giving my newphew a KZ ZS3 or ZST with KZ aptx bluetooth cable.


----------



## voicemaster

josesol07 said:


> Hi, could someone compare ZSN to ED16? From KZ I only have the ED16 which I like, except for the treble which I find too agressive for me.
> Is ZSN´s treble smoother and more polite than ED16? Or should I look for something like AS10? thanks


It is smoother than ZS6 for sure.


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> I’ve been thinking of limiting myself to 1 nice headphone and 1 nice IEM per year. All of the $20 heres and $45 theres start to add up.
> 
> I figure it will keep me from getting distracted by the “flavor of the month” gear. It should also give plenty of time to sort through the impressions once the new toy syndrome wears off, for numerous reviews to come in, and for prices/discounts to stabilize.
> 
> ...



This is a much better strategy. It's hard, I know for sure. I've been downsizing and selling or giving away my IEMs/Buds/Cheaper headphones and am way more content with a small collection of higher quality headphones and IEMs. I get a lot better listening experience and don't have to worry about which one to bring with me or listen to. Most of the cheaper stuff I end up getting ends up being given away to someone or sold off anyway, and I still end up keeping my better gear, which brings more overall satisfaction to me.

But, of course, curiosity wins occasionally -- so my collection fluctuates greatly from too many to very little and it's cyclic. Right now I have a smaller collection and I like it. But all this new stuff is sooooooo tempting. Especially the new budget planar IEMs, and those andro-s, and the elegia, and that upcoming ZS7, and.... and... and..


----------



## Slater

kukkurovaca said:


> VE Monks make a good disposable giveaway earphone. They come in cute little baggies, too, so you can just keep a bunch in your bag to hand out.



My go to HeadFi drug dealer handout is the KZ EDR1 haha


----------



## MyPants

Slater said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I have given a few decent IEMs to my teenager (along with a nice case), and I find them balled up in her pocket, or in the clothes washer, or smashed in the bottom of her book bag, cord ripped out of the shell, etc.
> 
> ...


At this point the only people who get my audiophile handmedowns are my other couple audiophile buddies who can't quite afford to throw cash at the hobby. They usually take as good care of the gear as I did.

AS A SIDE NOTE

Anybody have any idea why the ZSN is coming so soon on the heels of the ES4/ZSA? How many dual-driver hybrids does the brand need?


----------



## voicemaster

MyPants said:


> At this point the only people who get my audiophile handmedowns are my other couple audiophile buddies who can't quite afford to throw cash at the hobby. They usually take as good care of the gear as I did.
> 
> AS A SIDE NOTE
> 
> Anybody have any idea why the ZSN is coming so soon on the heels of the ES4/ZSA? How many dual-driver hybrids does the brand need?


Different tuning and driver maybe?


----------



## Zerohour88

MyPants said:


> AS A SIDE NOTE
> 
> Anybody have any idea why the ZSN is coming so soon on the heels of the ES4/ZSA? How many dual-driver hybrids does the brand need?



you must be new here. Its a fairly typical KZ release schedule. A product gets released, people talk about it for a month or so then another model drops and we move on to the newer shinier toy.

Other than the mostly maligned ED12, its been a slow steady refinement for each model in each series. maybe even KZ have learnt they needed to streamline their models and create distinct separation. Or the current track of ZS and AS series is a fluke and we'll go back to the mishmash of models once they announce their lineup next year.

I do wish they released the AS-06 in the ZSN shell though


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2018)

MyPants said:


> Anybody have any idea why the ZSN is coming so soon on the heels of the ES4/ZSA? How many dual-driver hybrids does the brand need?





Zerohour88 said:


> you must be new here. Its a fairly typical KZ release schedule. A product gets released, people talk about it for a month or so then another model drops and we move on to the newer shinier toy.
> 
> Other than the mostly maligned ED12, its been a slow steady refinement for each model in each series. maybe even KZ have learnt they needed to streamline their models and create distinct separation. Or the current track of ZS and AS series is a fluke and we'll go back to the mishmash of models once they announce their lineup next year.



I look at it like this:

ZS4 is a direct upgrade from the ZS3. It took ~1.5-2 years between models.

ZSN is a direct upgrade from the ZST. It took ~2 years between models.

ZS6 was a direct upgrade from the ZS5. It took ~1.5 years between models.

ZS7 is a direct upgrade from the ZS6. It (will probably) take ~1.5 years between models.

ES4 is a direct upgrade from the ES3. It took ~1.5 years between models.

ED16 is a direct upgrade from the ED12. It took ~2 years between models.

Anyone see the pattern?

And along the way, KZ introduces totally new models here and there - ED15, ZSA, BA10, AS10, etc.

I think they do this to 1. release flagships, 2. feel out the market on the black sheep models, and 3. see what ‘brown stuff’ will stick on the wall. If one model is a dud (like they claim the ED16 was), they abandon it and move on.

Sure, not every model fits the pattern perfectly. But it at least the basic 18-24 month pattern offers a glimpse into the logic of their model upgrade schedule.


----------



## MyPants

Slater said:


> I look at it like this:
> 
> ZS4 is a direct upgrade to ZS3. It took ~1.5-2 years between models.
> 
> ...


Alright if the ZSN is tuned more like the ZST, then that makes a lot more sense. I remember the ZST being less refined but overall more balanced than the ES3 (which was a fun V-shaped bass party), so I guess ES4 carries that on while the ZSN (hopefully) ends up with a shallower V than usual. Otherwise I guess ZSA is an oddball.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> I look at it like this:
> 
> ZS4 is a direct upgrade from the ZS3. It took ~1.5-2 years between models.
> 
> ...



yup, due to people seeing all the models announced all at once, they all go "What, KZ just flooding the market and not bothering to tune their models"

so far its been a steady improvement/refinement (according to their house sound, at least) and then sprinkling of something new like the ZSR/ZSA/ED16, the all BA models like AS10 and revisiting ED series like the ED15

if they're big enough to do something like that, more power to them. Maybe they'll decide one day that they're good enough to start making their own BA and DD.


----------



## Slater (Oct 31, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> yup, due to people seeing all the models announced all at once, they all go "What, KZ just flooding the market and not bothering to tune their models"
> 
> so far its been a steady improvement/refinement (according to their house sound, at least) and then sprinkling of something new like the ZSR/ZSA/ED16, the all BA models like AS10 and revisiting ED series like the ED15
> 
> if they're big enough to do something like that, more power to them. Maybe they'll decide one day that they're good enough to start making their own BA and DD.



Exactly.

It’s no different than how every year in October the car dealers “flood” the showroom with the new year models.

If one didn’t know better, it may seem on the surface that it’s just a wall of random new cars. However, we obviously know that each new year model is simply an updated version of the previous one.

A Chevy truck is not ‘competing’ with a Corvette, just like the minivan isn’t competing with the compact car. They’re all different models with different prices, features, power levels, etc.

The 2019 truck is simply an update to the 2018 truck. Just like the 2019 Corvette is simply an update to the 2018 Corvette, etc

So in my example, the ZS6/ZS7 is like a 2018/2019 Corvette, and the ES3/ES4 is like the 2018/2019 truck, and so on.


----------



## voicemaster

Been doing a lot of A/Bing with ZST, ZSR, ZS6 and ZSN. So far, the ZSN is the best sounding from those four. It combines all the good traits from the other three models, but not only that, it also has the most forward mid and treble presentation than those other three. 

-. ZST vs ZSN: - the ZST sound pretty subdued especially the high and mid (deep V shaped); treble is rolled off pretty quickly (cymbal sounds like SSss, very short decay); ZST has pretty punchy and good detail in bass, but it can, most                               of the time buried the vocal. Build quality and fit are good on both, but ZSN with its metal back is just gorgeous.
                         - the ZSN in comparison sounds airier, vocal and treble are more forward and you can easily hear what the singer say especially with song that has a lot of instruments going on, treble also more pronounced and decay is                             medium length (cymbal sounds like SSSsss); bass has same detail as ZST and with good amount of body and punch to it, but still just a touch lesser than the ZST. The ZSN is the better sounding IEM imho.

-. ZSR vs ZSN: - the ZSR has a little bit more forward mid and treble than ZST, but compared to the ZSN, the ZSR sounds pretty dark (deep V shaped); treble is quite airy and sparkle, but not quite forward. Bass is less punchy than ZSN                             and a bit more boomy. Again the bass can, most of the time, buried the vocal, but less than the ZST. Both ZST and ZSR sounds way darker and warmer than ZSN. Build quality is good, but fit is not that good as my ear                               start hurting after using the ZSR for about one hour or so. 
                         - the ZSN, again, has more forward and airy in mid/treble presentation with punchier and more detailed bass. For me, the ZSN is the clear winner. 

-. ZS6 vs ZSN: - the ZS6 has the most airiness and widest soundstage from all four IEMs, but its drawback is it is very prone to sibilance. The bass on ZS6 is quite punchy, but has less body than ZSN. Although ZS6 has more forward                                 mid presentation than ZST/ZSR, it is still a bit behind than the ZSN. Build quality and fit are good, although you can over the time "feel" that it want to fall off due to its weight. 
                         - the ZSN has less airiness and soundstage than ZS6, but with more forward in mid presentation, it sounds more intimate than the ZS6. 

It is easy to pick the winner between ZSN and ZST/ZSR, but it is very hard to pick between ZS6 and ZSN. If I were new to KZ addiction, I would definitely buy both ZSN and ZS6. Hope that helps.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Been doing a lot of A/Bing with ZST, ZSR, ZS6 and ZSN. So far, the ZSN is the best sounding from those four. It combines all the good traits from the other three models, but not only that, it also has the most forward mid and treble presentation than those other three.
> 
> -. ZST vs ZSN: - the ZST sound pretty subdued especially the high and mid (deep V shaped); treble is rolled off pretty quickly (cymbal sounds like SSss, very short decay); ZST has pretty punchy and good detail in bass, but it can, most                               of the time buried the vocal. Build quality and fit are good on both, but ZSN with its metal back is just gorgeous.
> - the ZSN in comparison sounds airier, vocal and treble are more forward and you can easily hear what the singer say especially with song that has a lot of instruments going on, treble also more pronounced and decay is                             medium length (cymbal sounds like SSSsss); bass has same detail as ZST and with good amount of body and punch to it, but still just a touch lesser than the ZST. The ZSN is the better sounding IEM imho.
> ...



Great impressions; very helpful!

BTW, what color ZSN do you have?

Since the purple ZSN sounds different (according to @1clearhead), it sounds like it may be helpful for ZSN owners to reference the color when posting. Otherwise, I can see where there could be some inaccuracies?


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 1, 2018)

Slater said:


> Great impressions; very helpful!
> 
> BTW, what color ZSN do you have?
> 
> Since the purple ZSN sounds different (according to @1clearhead), it sounds like it may be helpful for ZSN owners to reference the color when posting. Otherwise, I can see where there could be some inaccuracies?


The wires that comes with the purple/silver ZSN is the main key for the slight difference in sound signature making them one of the finest sounding KZ's ever! But, what I hope the KZ company understands is that it's fine to make color preference for choice of colors for any consumer, but altering the make of the wires to sound different from one another without even realizing it can make a difference in liking or disliking the earphone just purchased by any customer.
Thank goodness, we can always change the wires for better ones!


----------



## Mellowship

Reporter from Portuguese television using an ATE.


 

KZ taking over the world!


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 1, 2018)

The reason I think the *KZ ZSN* is by far the best KZ has accomplished:

1) *Housing:*
     Great authentic release and creative effort of a unique product that includes a metal screw on plate to an acrylic/resin housing (not cheap plastic) with a strong metal nozzle and filter.

2) *Sound:*
     Great effort on making an IEM sound like a true full-size sounding headphone without any artificial sounding peaks, whether coming from the bass, MID's, or highs.

3) *Cable/wires:*
     Decent wires for the price (only referring to the purple/silver ZSN package) for a pitch-perfect combination on giving the sound signature great extension, detail and balance.

4) *Price:*
     To understand everything one is getting in this small package is absurd and hard to comprehend, but yet, it's really true!...so lets enjoy it!

*Final thought:*  I have many IEM's, easily over a hundred plus, and this is the most impressive feat I've seen any company achieve in a "budget priced package" so far!






-Clear


----------



## phrancini

1clearhead said:


> The reason I think the *KZ ZSN* is by far the best KZ has accomplished:
> 
> 1) *Housing:*
> Great authentic release and creative effort of a unique product that includes a metal screw on plate to an acrylic/resin housing (not cheap plastic) with a strong metal nozzle and filter.
> ...




At this point I can't wait to try it. 

Little off topic. Which camera/lens did you use to take the photo?


----------



## 1clearhead

phrancini said:


> At this point I can't wait to try it.
> 
> Little off topic. Which camera/lens did you use to take the photo?


When ever I take pictures, It only usually comes from my smart phone...

ASUS ZenFone 4 Max Pegasus 4A Smart Phone with a SONY camera and "hi-res" audio player built in.


----------



## tripside

1clearhead said:


> The reason I think the *KZ ZSN* is by far the best KZ has accomplished:
> 
> 1) *Housing:*
> Great authentic release and creative effort of a unique product that includes a metal screw on plate to an acrylic/resin housing (not cheap plastic) with a strong metal nozzle and filter.
> ...



How does purple version differ in terms of sound ? Its probably the most attractive one.


----------



## 1clearhead

tripside said:


> How does purple version differ in terms of sound ? Its probably the most attractive one.


Several pages back, I mentioned that the purple/silver version sounds different due to the wires that come with this specific package, which it's slightly thicker and lighter in color. The Cyan and black ZSN comes with a cheaper braided dark brown wire that, to me personally, does not bring out the best out of the ZSN.


----------



## Podster (Nov 1, 2018)

I actually like all my iem's and for their own special differences, as far as the giveaway's I have given decent stuff to close friends. Let one of my best buds have a loaded Benjie S5 to drive the Shock Wave III's I also gave him and of course he's in heaven now and as far as my sons the younger has better taste and cares a wee bit more for his things than my older one who went through 3 pairs of TA Techne's with cable damage from wadding and the like but let me also say I've never seen an iem go through the wash cycle as many times as they did and still worked like a charm after each cleaning Crazy thing now is he tells me his current is his favorite behind the Techne's which are his (my old) black ED9's! (Man I could have saved a ton on Techne's and still had my original pair

@1clearhead you really have me wanting my ZSN's now and the nail has been hit on the proverbial head with the analogy of KZ and the ED-12 really being the only glitch in progression but IMHO KZ has had an excellent model plan from the beginning since we all keep buying and they keep upping their R&D bucket which so far I'm OK with. As a business model I'd rather be taking in monies with mass produced and mass sold good than having a company that just puts out high dollar goods with much slower sales Who know's maybe one day KZ will be like Nissan, Toyota and Honda and have their own Premium brand like Infinity, Lexus and Acura For sure they have made leaps and bounds from what separates these car brands and that is fit, finish and overall refinement

I'm sure those who totally detest KZ borrowing designs from the over priced (obviously, send in the snobs) as I know some of these higher priced brands sound better but as a point of diminishing returns the price difference I personally can't justify but those with big wallets and usually bigger ego's pls carry on When you start going over $350 for iem's or $500 for ciem's you are just loading money onto the name. I say this because once again IMPO lowly KZ has got the same type build quality down and are rapidly approaching the SQ as well. Now with all that said I'm also sure everyone noticed I did not put my little rant in a CA or Noble thread Funny thing is these people with the money to buy the higher priced brands buy in them just like I do in budget and you know it's an elusive quest to reach nirvana Probably why I like and enjoy all my iem's (well just about all, guess I'll even omit Dolphin's, HDS2, ED-12's and TA PM4's), still not as disappointing as spending >$500 and being disappointed OK, time to get off my

IMO this right here is a top notch rig for less than $250.00, not to mention we audio enthusiast don't even make up 1% of this old world's vast population!


----------



## voicemaster

I would have got the purple/silver zsn if there is amazon prime on it, but unfortunately only the black/black zsn has prime offering.


----------



## phrancini (Nov 1, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> When ever I take pictures, It only usually comes from my smart phone...
> 
> ASUS ZenFone 4 Max Pegasus 4A Smart Phone with a SONY camera and "hi-res" audio player built in.



Very nice photo, depth of field is spot on. If somebody told me it was taken with a dslr, I would have believed him.


----------



## antdroid

phrancini said:


> Very nice photo, depth of field is spot on. If somebody told me it was taken with a dslr, I would have believed him.



I agree, that is quite a good looking photo from a camera phone. Was a filter used to give the depth of field bokeh? Sorry, totally off-topic. 

My ZSN has finally cleared customs. Was in LAX for well over a week. No idea when it'll show up still.


----------



## zikarus (Nov 1, 2018)

My ZSN is on its way. Time to ask which Comply eartips are the ones to get - TX400 or 500 or something else?

Would be nice to be able to use the same as for the BGVP DM6 that will arrive shortly too....


----------



## mbwilson111

zikarus said:


> My ZSN is on its way. Time to ask which Comply eartips are the ones to get - TX400 or 500 or something else?
> 
> Would be nice to be able to use the same as for the BGVP DM6 that will arrive shortly too....



The stock tips (Starlines) that come with KZs are very good. I expect to be keeping those on my ZSNs when they arrive.  Many people have bought bags of Starlines to use on other IEMs.


----------



## 1clearhead

Yea, I hope many of the reviews for the ZSN are done according to the wires that come with the purple/silver ZSN package. A review with the dark brown wires that come with the other two ZSN's package (cyan or black) might give a false impression on the true performance the ZSN is capable of.

...just my two cent, thoughts!


----------



## 1clearhead

Another suggestion I can give is to jump on these cables made exclusively for the ZSN just in time for the 11/11 one day savings! 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?

...I'll be giving a quick impression next week once I receive mine this weekend. 


-Clear


----------



## CYoung234 (Nov 1, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> U can't have too many IEMs lol



Well, you only have two ears. Seriously, I had to stop buying iems. Once I got the right tips on my ZS10's, I actually do not listen to anything else anymore. I got my CI-880, Tin Audio T2, ZS6 and ED16 out and listened to them for a bit, but for me, in my setup, the ZS10 makes every one of them unnecessary. Either my ears are really bad, or I just got a really good pair of ZS10s...


----------



## scottySK

CYoung234 said:


> Well, you only have two ears. Seriously, I had to stop buying iems. Once I got the right tips on my ZS10's, I actually do not listen to anything else anymore. I got my CI-880, Tin Audio T2, ZS6 and ED16 out and listened to them for a bit, but for me, in my setup, the ZS10 makes every one of them unnecessary. Either my ears are really bad, or I just got a really good pair of ZS10s...


I love my zs10s.. I just wish they fit my ears better


----------



## scottySK

CYoung234 said:


> Well, you only have two ears. Seriously, I had to stop buying iems. Once I got the right tips on my ZS10's, I actually do not listen to anything else anymore. I got my CI-880, Tin Audio T2, ZS6 and ED16 out and listened to them for a bit, but for me, in my setup, the ZS10 makes every one of them unnecessary. Either my ears are really bad, or I just got a really good pair of ZS10s...


I've got both a ZS6 and T2 in my cart ready to pull the trigger on 11.11 since the prices are so good. Can you elaborate on why you prefer the ZS10 over both of those?


----------



## zikarus

1clearhead said:


> Another suggestion I can give is to jump on these cables made exclusively for the ZSN just in time for the 11/11 one day savings!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?
> 
> ...



Nice ordered one too...


----------



## voicemaster

This song sounds really good on the ZSN.


----------



## CYoung234

scottySK said:


> I've got both a ZS6 and T2 in my cart ready to pull the trigger on 11.11 since the prices are so good. Can you elaborate on why you prefer the ZS10 over both of those?



Here is a quick comparison. For me, the ZS10 is a better ZS6. The high end is tamed a bit, and it has a better low end. Also, to me, it is less recessed in the mids. I enjoy listening to the ZS6, but for me, the ZS10 is more immersive sounding. It gets out of the way of the music better, and lets me just enjoy the music. For the T2, I just found it to be underwhelming. It was not comfortable for me either over ear or straight down with the cable. I find it to be dull sounding and not as neutral as people claim. At least on my pair, I hear coloration in the mids. The soundstage is also small. Maybe I have a bunch of gunk in it like some have seen. I keep wanting to like it based on all of the positive reviews, but it just falls short.


----------



## Slater (Nov 2, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> This song sounds really good on the ZSN.



I’m still waiting on my purple ZSN to arrive, but I’m really hoping that it will somehow be able to make this classic song sound better!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I’m still waiting on my purple ZSN to arrive, but I’m really hoping that it will somehow be able to make this classic song sound better!




ZSN really brings out the musicality of this song. And that soundstage! Heavenly.


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 2, 2018)

I like this on mine if I ever get one


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I like this on mine if I ever get one




I am getting a ZSN so you can listen to that on mine...but I hope it does not break them!


----------



## Mybutthurts (Nov 2, 2018)

Love my ZS10. Just got a pair of AS10, great as they are, their tone bring a little more brighter than ZS10.
I am returning to the ZS10 all the time its
 Just a little bit more intergrated and if they could give ZS10 the same forward vocals as the AS10. It would be perfect. IMHO
Edited to add...what tips for you use .I've got new bee silicones and work great for me.



CYoung234 said:


> Well, you only have two ears. Seriously, I had to stop buying iems. Once I got the right tips on my ZS10's, I actually do not listen to anything else anymore. I got my CI-880, Tin Audio T2, ZS6 and ED16 out and listened to them for a bit, but for me, in my setup, the ZS10 makes every one of them unnecessary. Either my ears are really bad, or I just got a really good pair of ZS10s...


----------



## Mellowship

Can you convince me the ZSN has something to add to the AS10? I mean, these are amazing, but all the hype the ZSN has been receiving,,, I don't know...

Everything in the AS10 sounds like it should... 

Here shown with the TRN 8 wire cable, connected to my DIY amp.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mellowship said:


> Can you convince me the ZSN has something to add to the AS10? I mean, these are amazing, but all the hype the ZSN has been receiving,,, I don't know...
> 
> Everything in the AS10 sounds like it should...
> 
> Here shown with the TRN 8 wire cable, connected to my DIY amp.



Not point in getting the ZSN when you have the AS10, unless you just want a cheap beater to carry around. ZSN is a great 20 USD earphone, but it doesn't compete with the AS10.

EDIT: imo


----------



## Mellowship

B9Scrambler said:


> Not point in getting the ZSN when you have the AS10, unless you just want a cheap beater to carry around. ZSN is a great 20 USD earphone, but it doesn't compete with the AS10.
> 
> EDIT: imo


Cheap beater to carry around is what I have plenty off already!  Thanks!


----------



## eclein

1clearhead....thanks for that link I'm also an ordering fool. Why does Amazon show the zsn with the wrong cable in the pictures if you ordered black as I did?
I'm tempted to request the vendor send the cable shown......chances?? 
Either way mine are due Sunday..... I'm like a kid at Christmas!!!


----------



## eclein

Ok...now that I have and enjoy the BA10's should I even consider the other 5 BA ,AS10 or ZS10?????
These BA10's have won position #1 in my rotation knocking back the 64audio U4-SE back in its box!

The V80's are coming as are the ZSN, am I missing any other chifi manufacturer that comes close to these prices? 
I think I'm grabbing an ifi X-CAN next then I can stream Spotify and get my ESS SABRE fix also....if its the price they say it will cause a stir I think.....but back to KZ.
 I just put the white thick braid cable I had bought back on the BA10's since I yanked that screen/sponge stuff out and its fabulous sounding!
Feels cheap and to thick of a braid but the sound rules the day.


----------



## SiggyFraud

1clearhead said:


> Another suggestion I can give is to jump on these cables made exclusively for the ZSN just in time for the 11/11 one day savings!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?
> 
> ...



It's even less at the VS Audio Store on Ali. Only 6,84 USD.


----------



## Mellowship

SiggyFraud said:


> It's even less at the VS Audio Store on Ali. Only 6,84 USD.


Oh what a beautiful green cable!


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> ZSN really brings out the musicality of this song. And that soundstage! Heavenly.




Who knew that's where


1clearhead said:


> Another suggestion I can give is to jump on these cables made exclusively for the ZSN just in time for the 11/11 one day savings!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?
> 
> ...



What, they have more than one cable LOL So tell me Clear, if these dang things are touted as Oxygen Free why do they turn green


----------



## pbui44

eclein said:


> These BA10's have won position #1 in my rotation knocking back the 64audio U4-SE back in its box!



Then I will take those 64 Audio U4-SE off your hands!


----------



## eclein

pbui44 said:


> Then I will take those 64 Audio U4-SE off your hands!



Trade for an ibasso DX200?


----------



## khighly (Nov 3, 2018)

Just got ATH-M50xBT, and also building the old SOHA tube amp from Headwize right now (friend found it in his basement, never built it!). Looking at the ZSN.


----------



## CYoung234 (Nov 2, 2018)

Mybutthurts said:


> Love my ZS10. Just got a pair of AS10, great as they are, their tone bring a little more brighter than ZS10.
> I am returning to the ZS10 all the time its
> Just a little bit more intergrated and if they could give ZS10 the same forward vocals as the AS10. It would be perfect. IMHO
> Edited to add...what tips for you use .I've got new bee silicones and work great for me.



I am using Auvio medium wide bore tips on mine. The stock tips are good as well. Because these iems are large, you need to wear something that gives you a good seal.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> Another suggestion I can give is to jump on these cables made exclusively for the ZSN just in time for the 11/11 one day savings!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?


What's the diff between these and the 8 core wired KZ cables?


----------



## ssnjrthgr8

HungryPanda said:


> I like this on mine if I ever get one



That's a pretty good song thanks for linking it here


----------



## 1clearhead

Mellowship said:


> Oh what a beautiful green cable!


Yea, I'm hoping that's not the case for KZ this time around...  We'll see in a few months.


----------



## CoiL

I actually don`t understand why everybody run for those cheap "silver plated" (probably tinned) cables? 
Rather get good OFC cable with lot of strands inside wire and call it done. 
Everything that shines, isn`t gold... ya know  Unfortunately many fall for KZ "fashion selling". 
Read hakuzen cable measurement posts and be sure what Your are getting.


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's the diff between these and the 8 core wired KZ cables?


More strands per wire: Less loss of electrical signal to the drivers, which brings a cleaner, clearer frequency respond when it's 25 strands vs. 8 strands.


----------



## 1clearhead

Podster said:


> Who knew that's where
> 
> 
> What, they have more than one cable LOL So tell me Clear, if these dang things are touted as Oxygen Free why do they turn green


I have several white/silver cables from other manufactures that's been with me for several years, which hasn't turned on me. But if these KZ turn green after a few months, I'll be done ordering separate cables from KZ.

Ps. You'll be the first to know.


----------



## Podster

THX @1clearhead , I too have a couple nice SP clear cables (obviously cost more then the KZ cables) that have not turned but to date all my KZ SP cables have turned but for less than $10 a cable we may have our sights set too high! The first one to go on me was the permanent one that came on my original red TFZ series 1 and sadly that was not interchangeable


----------



## khighly (Nov 3, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> More strands per wire: Less loss of electrical signal to the drivers, which brings a cleaner, clearer frequency respond when it's 25 strands vs. 8 strands.


Lol.....at the power level needed for these you can use one strand of 36AWG magnet wire and notice absolutely no difference.


----------



## Returnity

Since 11.11 is approaching I was wondering if we can snatch a budget "pure silver" (not spc) cable from AE. Could anyone like @hakuzen point me to the right direction?

PS: I recall seeing a yellow colored sub-50 USD silver cable from AE here but just can't find it again.


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 3, 2018)

Returnity said:


> Since 11.11 is approaching I was wondering if we can snatch a budget "pure silver" (not spc) cable from AE. Could anyone like @hakuzen point me to the right direction?
> 
> PS: I recall seeing a yellow colored sub-50 USD silver cable from AE here but just can't find it again.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...buck-cable-thread.891911/page-5#post-14572065

the one you saw is this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMC...hone-Cable-Extremely-Soft-7N/32890074065.html

this generation of pure silver looks good. i own some other pure silver but thinner cables.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 3, 2018)

Returnity said:


> Since 11.11 is approaching I was wondering if we can snatch a budget "pure silver" (not spc) cable from AE. Could anyone like @hakuzen point me to the right direction?
> 
> PS: I recall seeing a yellow colored sub-50 USD silver cable from AE here but just can't find it again.



Deleted.

They were SPC.



*** EDIT ***

Deleted information (for those interested):


Spoiler



$49



 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FSR1JW4/ref=sspa_mw_detail_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1


$40


 
https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Head...dpPl=1&dpID=51kcm1Os6lL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1


----------



## monitoringsound70

Have the AS10s arriving tomorrow.
Really looking forward to hearing them  
Will post some thoughts when I have them.


----------



## Violator

Can someone compare in few words AS10 and TRN V80.It`s tight budget for 11.11.
Thanks


----------



## stryed (Nov 3, 2018)

Hello,
Anyone know where to get the lip version of the ZS6 on AE?  It seems easier to find on gearbest as it's called the bass version, although SQ hasn't changed according to people here.


----------



## Slater

stryed said:


> Hello,
> Anyone know where to get the lip version of the ZS6 on AE?  It seems easier to find on gearbest as it's called the bass version, although SZ hasn't changed according to people here.



In my experience, the ZS6 nozzle is random (even from Gearbest). The only way to know 100% for sure is to ask the seller to open the box and actually verify. I would also ask for photographic evidence as well. 

Some will accommodate, and others will either not understand what you are asking, or will flat out lie. I'm sure better and more trustworthy sellers like Jim @ HCK, Penon, etc will be more than happy to honor a request like that.

I ran into the exact same thing when I was hunting for ZS1 v1 (with the brass ring). The only way to verify the specific revision I wanted was visual inspection. I contacted about 50 sellers between Aliexpress and ebay, sending my request and a clear photo showing how to properly identify what I wanted.  Of the 50 requests, only about 15 even bothered to respond. Of those, only 5 sellers were willing to actually look. Of those, 3 sellers claimed they had the correct version (QTY 1 at each seller). So I bought all 3.

Of the 3 I bought, only 1 turned out to be the real deal ZS1 v1. The other 2 I received were the ZS1 v2 (which I did not want). I chalk up those 2 to either lying and telling me what I wanted to hear (a common problem in Chinese culture), or some sort of language barrier or misunderstanding.

Oh well, at least I ended up with 1 at the end of the day.


----------



## stryed (Nov 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> In my experience, the ZS6 nozzle is random (even from Gearbest). The only way to know 100% for sure is to ask the seller to open the box and actually verify. I would also ask for photographic evidence as well.
> 
> Some will accommodate, and others will either not understand what you are asking, or will flat out lie. I'm sure better and more trustworthy sellers like Jim @ HCK, Penon, etc will be more than happy to honor a request like that.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip. I'll ask my sis to translate into Chinese and contact sellers. We're from Hong Kong but only she speaks Chinese. Hopefully, they'll understand notch/lip/good-thingy-for-tips. 
At least your effort wasn't wasted as the V2 isn't all that bad and the V1 is a treasured rarity.


----------



## CYoung234

Slater said:


> In my experience, the ZS6 nozzle is random (even from Gearbest). The only way to know 100% for sure is to ask the seller to open the box and actually verify. I would also ask for photographic evidence as well.
> 
> Some will accommodate, and others will either not understand what you are asking, or will flat out lie. I'm sure better and more trustworthy sellers like Jim @ HCK, Penon, etc will be more than happy to honor a request like that.
> 
> ...



Slater, wish you would have seen my ad when I was in the U.S. in September. I had two zs5 v1's for sale there and on eBay, but did not get any offers. I ended up giving one of them to my nephew and brought the other one back to Paraguay with me. Oh well. They were both almost new too, from Gearbest when the ZS5 first came out.


----------



## Slater

CYoung234 said:


> Slater, wish you would have seen my ad when I was in the U.S. in September. I had two zs5 v1's for sale there and on eBay, but did not get any offers. I ended up giving one of them to my nephew and brought the other one back to Paraguay with me. Oh well. They were both almost new too, from Gearbest when the ZS5 first came out.



I was looking for a ZS*1* v1, not ZS*5* v1.

I hope you were able to sell yours. The ZS5 v1 is a sought after IEM 

I have (1) ZS5 v1, and I do like it for its awesome soundstage. It does have flaws that bother me though, so I rarely ever use it.

The ZS*1* v1 is my bass head guilty pleasure. Although the UiiSii CM5 has better treble, so I find myself grabbing for it more than the ZS1. I will never get rid of my ZS1 v1 just due to their rarity though!

I wish KZ would re-release the ZS1 v1. If they added a BA for treble and kept everything else exactly the same, it would be epic!


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2018)

stryed said:


> Thanks for the tip. I'll ask my sis to translate into Chinese and contact sellers. We're from Hong Kong but only she speaks Chinese. Hopefully, they'll understand notch/lip/good-thingy-for-tips.
> At least your effort wasn't wasted as the V2 isn't all that bad and the V1 is a treasured rarity.



I’ll post a nice photo you can hopefully send the sellers. It should help you in your quest. A photo is worth a thousand words, no matter what the language is!


----------



## stryed

Slater said:


> I was looking for a ZS*1* v1, not ZS*5* v1.
> 
> I hope you were able to sell yours. The ZS5 v1 is a sought after IEM
> 
> ...



I read that as ZS5 v1 as well. Never heard of the ZS1. Some KZ oldies seem to be favourites like the EDR1/2 & ATE. I wonder how they stack up to other new cheapos like EZAudio D4 that's in my cart. KZ ZSE is indeed a disappointment although it doesn't do anything wrong, it doesn't do anything right either.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Nov 3, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Not point in getting the ZSN when you have the AS10, unless you just want a cheap beater to carry around. ZSN is a great 20 USD earphone, but it doesn't compete with the AS10.
> 
> EDIT: imo



considering AS10 and the likes are KZ's flagship model, I would've thought this didn't need clarifying. KZ wouldn't butcher their own models with a cheaper model of their own release. Especially in the same calendar year.

"hype"


----------



## Nikostr8

has someone tried the ZSN with metal music? im really digging the design of it


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2018)

Slater said:


> BTW, I am working on a permanent solution to the 'green cable' problem. Stay tuned...



BTW, here is my progress on the solution to the "green cable" problem.

Below is a pair of KZ 8 core cables generously donated by @Podster. It's hard to tell from the photos (poor lighting), but both cables were minty green with oxidation before I started. However, as you can see, 1 of the cables is now black.











In theory literally any color can be done - red, blue, green, yellow, purple, brown, pink, etc. It's even possible to do multi-colored, such as the section below the y-split in black and the section above the y-split in green. Or the R cable section above the y-split in red, and the L cable section above the y-split in blue! Picture how awesome a red cable would look with a red ZS6. Or a green cable with green ZSR. The possibilities are endless 

The color is chemically bonded directly to the outside of the cable using a special industrial solvent dying process (it is NOT spray paint, fabric dye, food coloring, etc). The color is 100% permanent, and will NOT peel, chip, or rub off in any way. The jacks and inner copper conductor are totally unaffected, and there is no change with impedance or sound in any way. The cable, including the insulation, is undamaged. This process has no negative effects.

I have a few more tests to run, but so far I am very happy with the results. This is going to be a great option for cables that have ugly green oxidation, but are otherwise perfectly functional. Since some people are throwing their cables away when they turn green, this option will save money (from having to buy new cables) and keep the oxidized cables out of the landfill 

Unfortunately, not every cable can be colored in this manner. The KZ 4-core silver upgrade cable (which had also oxidized green) did not turn out as good as the above 8-core cable. This is because the 4-core KZ silver cable uses 2 totally different types of wire insulation (1 type of insulation below the y-split, and a different type of insulation above the y-split)! The section of cable below the y-split turned out perfectly, and looks exactly like the above black 8-core cable. However, the upper section (above the y-split) turned out with a similar color as the KZ 'iron grey' upgrade cable (a translucent brownish grey). Obviously the upper section of the wire (above the y-split) isn't fully compatible with my process. Despite the 4-core cable being kind of a 2-tone color scheme, the end result still looks better than the mint-green oxidized cable I started out with.

I don't yet know what other cables this method works on yet (ie the silver plated 4-core TRN cable, the new 8-core cables from KZ and TRN, etc). That's 1 of the things I hope to test in the coming days.

I also need to figure out how to scale it down so people can do 1-2 cables themselves. As it stands now, I had to buy enough material to do like 1,000 cables haha. It's like a woman who wants to paint her fingernails or toenails with red nail polish, but has to buy 5 gallons at a time!

Anyways, I'll keep everyone posted with the progress.


----------



## jibberish

Nikostr8 said:


> has someone tried the ZSN with metal music? im really digging the design of it


I received mine this morning, one of the albums I listened to today was a Judas Priest record, and I really enjoyed it.  Nice separation of the lead and rhythm guitars, solid bass drum thump without bleeding into the lower mids, Halford's vocals didn't get overbearing. So yeah, it's a VERY limited amount of listening time so far, but I'm encouraged that it'll be good choice for metal and classic/hard rock. 

I like the ZS4 with metal, and my initial impression is that the ZSN will offer a fairly similar experience but with more prominent mids, a slightly wider soundstage, and more detailed treble. Attitudes can change with more hours though, I initially was very enamored by the ZSR when i first got it, but then it lost its luster for me after a few weeks. 

The build quality of the ZSN looks impressive compared to the other KZs I have in the same price range for sure, and fit and isolation are both superb for my ears. Took the dog on a multi-hour walk in some extreme wind, it was perfectly comfortable throughout and no wind noise leaked in at all (had a big problem with that yesterday while out with another set of IEMs). 

I definitely didn't need another set of ~$20 IEMs based on how many I've bought recently, but my initial impressions are very positive and I'm looking forward to putting the ZSN through it's paces. Oh yeah, the lack of memory wire on the cable is really nice too, I had to pull the memory wire out of my ZSR and ZS4 cables.


----------



## crabdog

jibberish said:


> I received mine this morning, one of the albums I listened to today was a Judas Priest record, and I really enjoyed it.  Nice separation of the lead and rhythm guitars, solid bass drum thump without bleeding into the lower mids, Halford's vocals didn't get overbearing. So yeah, it's a VERY limited amount of listening time so far, but I'm encouraged that it'll be good choice for metal and classic/hard rock.
> 
> I like the ZS4 with metal, and my initial impression is that the ZSN will offer a fairly similar experience but with more prominent mids, a slightly wider soundstage, and more detailed treble. Attitudes can change with more hours though, I initially was very enamored by the ZSR when i first got it, but then it lost its luster for me after a few weeks.
> 
> ...


I agree about the memory wire 110% and it makes the ZSN cable so much better. From memory, it feels slightly more supple than the AS10 and BA10 cable too which is another plus. I'm liking the new connectors on this one too, makes it feel more durable and reduces the likeliness of bending the pins. As for the sound of the ZSN, wow, maybe even better than the ZS4?


​


----------



## Nikostr8

jibberish said:


> I received mine this morning, one of the albums I listened to today was a Judas Priest record, and I really enjoyed it.  Nice separation of the lead and rhythm guitars, solid bass drum thump without bleeding into the lower mids, Halford's vocals didn't get overbearing. So yeah, it's a VERY limited amount of listening time so far, but I'm encouraged that it'll be good choice for metal and classic/hard rock.
> 
> I like the ZS4 with metal, and my initial impression is that the ZSN will offer a fairly similar experience but with more prominent mids, a slightly wider soundstage, and more detailed treble. Attitudes can change with more hours though, I initially was very enamored by the ZSR when i first got it, but then it lost its luster for me after a few weeks.
> 
> ...


thank you very much for the answer , i guess ill choose between zs4 ( same shell as my beloved zs3 which fits me perfectly) and ZSN ( same shell as zst?? ).

If im going to get a similar experience between them maybe i have to choose the ZS4 for the comfort aspect . The ZSN looks so damn good tho....


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 4, 2018)

OK, so I've burned the KZ ZSN hitting the 100 hour mark and they are just astonishing for the price! They just kept getting better and better as I gave it small breaks to listen in until the 100 hour point! The performance is phenomenal with the cable that comes with the purple/silver ZSN, or the separate purchase of the silver braided cable that's made exclusively for the ZSN. You get excellent performance from either of the two cables! I will be making a decision within a week or two where I will rank the ZSN based on their Professional Sound Rating (PSR) performance on my list, but they're definitely going to be one of my top contenders for sure. Definitely, they are worthy as one of KZ's best for; comfort, light-weight, well-made, uniquely made, good looks, professional sounding, and best price! Lastly, another unique feature is how the acrylic/resin is the part of the housing that sits in the ears, while the metal plate sits outside for a cold-free listening experience during the cold or winter seasons.

Ps. It's funny how I treat these more carefully than some of the one's that I paid up to five times more.

KZ ZSN



-Clear


----------



## monitoringsound70

And so the AS10s are here  

I really like the new package for these in the black, shame no case mind.

Obviously early days at the moment but initially I wasn't wowed by these. .... Having been spoilt with the Zs10 the first few songs I heard with these were perfectly acceptable but nothing over the top

However after further listening they start to claw you in,  Probably the best bass I've yet heard on a Kz, stronger than the Zs10 and certainly with plenty of power.

Mids are really nice, up front enough without becoming shouty, actually better than the ES4, very nicely done.

Treble is exceptionally good, there's a huge amount of detail there but they just sit in the background to not give you any fatigue. 
I'm very nearly saying these are the most balanced and natural Kz yet, which is probably why initially the wow factor wasn't immediately apparent.
But the more I listen the more they shine! 

Definitely brilliant for a studio monitor these may just have it all, anyway more in depth thoughts to follow.......


----------



## eclein

I'm so pumped,mine are out for delivery!!


----------



## DSebastiao

Are the AS10 the best of the bunch right now? 

Even considering other brands?


----------



## Dobrescu George

DSebastiao said:


> Are the AS10 the best of the bunch right now?
> 
> Even considering other brands?



What do you mean even considering other brands...? 

KZ AS10 is the best KZ I heard to date, yes


----------



## DSebastiao

Dobrescu George said:


> What do you mean even considering other brands...?
> 
> KZ AS10 is the best KZ I heard to date, yes



I need a new pair of iem's, already have the ZSR's and the fit is a no for me, i wish i could go for something more afordable, but i guess i really have to save for the AS10's...


----------



## Dobrescu George

DSebastiao said:


> I need a new pair of iem's, already have the ZSR's and the fit is a no for me, i wish i could go for something more afordable, but i guess i really have to save for the AS10's...



I heard lots of IEMs in that price range tbh, if you have a specific taste, I can try to help you figure what would best fit your needs


----------



## Slater

DSebastiao said:


> I need a new pair of iem's, already have the ZSR's and the fit is a no for me, i wish i could go for something more afordable, but i guess i really have to save for the AS10's...





Dobrescu George said:


> I heard lots of IEMs in that price range tbh, if you have a specific taste, I can try to help you figure what would best fit your needs



Agreed, let us know your tastes. There's so much good gear less than the AS10 price, I know we can find you something you'll be happy with!


----------



## Mellowship

DSebastiao said:


> I need a new pair of iem's, already have the ZSR's and the fit is a no for me, i wish i could go for something more afordable, but i guess i really have to save for the AS10's...



The perfect IEMs are not going to show up riding a white horse on a foggy day.  

There are indeed a lot of options. I personally love the AS10, but got them for less than 30 euros. Maybe prices go that way on 11.11.

Since you don't like the fit of the ZSR, I would star away from the ZS3 and ZS4, as their back plate is molded in the same fashion.


----------



## jibberish

Mellowship said:


> The perfect IEMs are not going to show up riding a white horse on a foggy day.
> 
> There are indeed a lot of options. I personally love the AS10, but got them for less than 30 euros. Maybe prices go that way on 11.11.
> 
> Since you don't like the fit of the ZSR, I would star away from the ZS3 and ZS4, as their back plate is molded in the same fashion.


It is funny though, the ZSR makes my ears miserable, but I can wear the ZS4 all day (and frequently do when I have a lot of video conferences for work).  Their overall shape is similar, but they fit very differently in my ears.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm amused on the aliexpress home sale page it prices BA10 at $100 and on sale just over $50 What


----------



## Le Stef

monitoringsound70 said:


> And so the AS10s are here
> 
> I really like the new package for these in the black, shame no case mind.
> 
> ...



Hi; how would you compare/define the bass on the AS10 and the ES4? Thanks


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I'm amused on the aliexpress home sale page it prices BA10 at $100 and on sale just over $50 What



Regular price $17,000. Sale $50.

Hurry, buy it now!!

haha


----------



## Nikostr8

jibberish said:


> It is funny though, the ZSR makes my ears miserable, but I can wear the ZS4 all day (and frequently do when I have a lot of video conferences for work).  Their overall shape is similar, but they fit very differently in my ears.


in my case is the huge nozzle that destroy my ear everytime i use it... i really like the ZSR but my god it hurts so much everytime that i try using it.... I'll start carrying around my ZS3 again until i get the ZS4 because its too much for my poor ear. Sad tho cuz it means that it will get close to no-use from now on ...


----------



## Zerohour88

DSebastiao said:


> Are the AS10 the best of the bunch right now?
> 
> Even considering other brands?



sub $50, you can't go wrong with trying out the Tin Audio T2 (I know this model has been recommended to death, but it does deserve it). Barrel/bullet-type body, so not much fit issues unless you really don't like such shape. No idea on the T2 Pro since haven't had the chance to try that one out, but seems it has more treble (as if the T2 needed more of it).

Even disregarding sound signature preference, SQ/resolution on the sub $50 is really competitive, so you can't go wrong with any commonly recommended model on the chi-fi thread. AS10 and the likes should really have been sub $50 from the get go, but KZ has consistently put high RRP on their flagship models and letting the dealers put their own discounts on it.


----------



## groucho69

Mellowship said:


> The perfect IEMs are not going to show up riding a white horse on a foggy day.
> 
> There are indeed a lot of options. I personally love the AS10, but got them for less than 30 euros. Maybe prices go that way on 11.11.
> 
> Since you don't like the fit of the ZSR, I would star away from the ZS3 and ZS4, as their back plate is molded in the same fashion.



Of course not. Everyone knows it only happens on rainy days.


----------



## khighly (Nov 4, 2018)

I find flat sound signatures really boring. ATH-m50xBT is probably the most flat sound signature I have and I'm just so bored. There's nothing wrong with them besides mediocre isolation and nothingburger soundstage, but putting AS10's back in is goes straight back to really fun sound. AS10's are so worth it especially with 11.11 sale. At least the m50xbt will be a good 'flat' reference now.

I wish there was a better bluetooth option for the AS10's, Even though the TRN's have great battery life, good sound, TRN's design isn't very good and I don't feel confident that I won't lose them because their 2pin connector isn't really made for KZ, it's just generic. My MEE Audio BTX1 is really good and exactly what I would want for the AS10's.







Perfect. With my long hair, nobody can see I'm wearing them. I've sat through meetings with them in without a word.


----------



## eggnogg

khighly said:


> BTX1 is really good and exactly what I would want for the AS10



this adapter come w/ a price


Spoiler: [][]


----------



## TLDRonin (Nov 5, 2018)

khighly said:


> I find flat sound signatures really boring. ATH-m50xBT is probably the most flat sound signature I have and I'm just so bored. There's nothing wrong with them besides mediocre isolation and nothingburger soundstage, but putting AS10's back in is goes straight back to really fun sound. AS10's are so worth it especially with 11.11 sale. At least the m50xbt will be a good 'flat' reference now.


Is the m50xBT tuned that differently than the wired version? The wired version is one of the most colored things I've listened to. Its quite V-shaped with recessed mids


----------



## monitoringsound70

Le Stef said:


> Hi; how would you compare/define the bass on the AS10 and the ES4? Thanks


The bass on the AS10 is more natural, more focused and has more punch than the Es4.
The BA on the AS10 is Sooooo much better than the dynamic driver on the Es4. 

Very captivating


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## CoiL (Nov 5, 2018)

nvm


----------



## voicemaster

Anyone can compare as10 with zsn? Tempted to buy the as10. xD


----------



## eggnogg

KZ ZS3E - w/ single DD + silver cable inlcuded in the box



Spoiler: [][]


----------



## Mellowship

eggnogg said:


> KZ ZS3E - w/ single DD + silver cable inlcuded in the box
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: [][]



ZS4 downgraded: 
- BA and green DD comes out and green cable comes in. 

That DD, is it something y'all have heard of? Or is it the same as in normal ZS3?


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## TLDRonin (Nov 5, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> ZS4 downgraded:
> - BA and green DD comes out and green cable comes in.
> 
> That DD, is it something y'all have heard of? Or is it the same as in normal ZS3?


Pretty sure the Sony MDR EX1000 uses a "Liquid Crystal Polymer" driver as well. No way its nearly as good though haha

Less drivers doesn't make it a downgrade necessarily. I'd much prefer 1 well-tuned tuned DD over XX amount of BA/DDs


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## Slater (Nov 5, 2018)

eggnogg said:


> KZ ZS3E - w/ single DD + silver cable inlcuded in the box
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: [][]





Mellowship said:


> ZS4 downgraded:
> - BA and green DD comes out and green cable comes in.
> 
> That DD, is it something y'all have heard of? Or is it the same as in normal ZS3?





TLDRonin said:


> Pretty sure the Sony MDR EX1000 uses a "Liquid Crystal Polymer" driver as well. No way its nearly as good though haha
> 
> Less drivers doesn't make it a downgrade necessarily. I'd much prefer 1 well-tuned tuned DD over XX amount of BA/DDs



The biggest change I see here is the elimination of the ghetto heat shrink tubing sound tube. I welcome this update, but I think it should have been this way from the get go.

Judging strictly by the photos, the nozzle looks much shorter (although it could just be the angle of the photo). It also looks to be wider in diameter than the normal ZS3. If it is indeed shorter and wider, it would improve mids and treble, the Achilles heel of the original ZS3.

Shortening and widening the nozzle also reduces boominess and bloat in the low region, which was also a complaint with the original ZS3. KZ even says this in their marketing above. This is a good thing as well - it tells me this should have a more dynamic and balanced sound.

You’d be surprised what tweaking the nozzle does to the tune. It is one of the most important (yet most overlooked) methods of tuning an IEM. I’m excited to see how KZs efforts turn out.

I don’t see this as competing with the ZS4. Rather just the 3rd revision to the ZS3. The ZS4 costs 2x, so it simply fills a particular spot in their price/model lineup.

KZ does this with all their models. The ATE went through 5 revisions, the ZS1 went through 3, ZS5 went through 2, ZS6 went through 2, ATR went through 2, etc.

Depending on the price I’ll give it one try. Not expecting it to be better than the ZS4, but expecting it to be an improvement on the ZS3.

I hope it has a nozzle lip. It doesn’t look like it from the photos though. I wish KZ would stop doing this. Just put a darn lip on every IEM KZ!!


----------



## cacio

monitoringsound70 said:


> The bass on the AS10 is more natural, more focused and has more punch than the Es4.
> The BA on the AS10 is Sooooo much better than the dynamic driver on the Es4.
> 
> Very captivating



so now i am here thinking about getting the ZSN or AS10.

since you have the AS10, i would like to know how the BAs can reproduce sub-bass. from what i have read online, it is rather problematic.

could you report on some songs, how the sub-bass performance is on AS10?

Sabrina Claudio - Confidently Lost
Kercha - Common Sense
Khromi - Horizons
Khromi - No More Wips
Congi - Somnium
Audialist - Serpent

Thanks in advance


----------



## Makahl

Isn't it just a ZS4 without the BA? They share a lot of similarities: rendering file, nozzle structure, 8mm DD "polymerized membrane". Looking forward to reading more details about it.


----------



## rayliam80

I accidentally dropped the right earpiece of my ZS10 into my cup of coffee this morning. Fully submerged and all for about 2 seconds at the most. I baby all my IEMs no matter their monetary value so this something that never happens to me (first time). I wiped it off and considered tossing it into a sealed container with rice. But then I decided to give it a listen. It works fine!


----------



## eclein

I have the BA10's and there is plenty of sub bass regular ordinary bass and every other kind of bass, mids, highs.....i'm an old head drummer, I'm 60 and played since I was a wee shaver of 9. Heard every type of headphone since early days...have a whole bunch, my 64 audio U4-SE's sound great but the BA10's are my go to iems. They get better and better! No BS! I was shocked how good they sounded with maybe 10 hrs on them, any sibilance was gone and if you can get a good seal you'll be in sound Disneyland!
 I'm listening today to my new black sweet looking ZSN's and as they play in they sound excellent....$23 for these make Westone execs appaplectic, jittery and ducking for cover......these are a thrill to find and all sound good...


----------



## mbwilson111

rayliam80 said:


> I accidentally dropped the right earpiece of my ZS10 into my cup of coffee this morning. Fully submerged and all for about 2 seconds at the most. I baby all my IEMs no matter their monetary value so this something that never happens to me (first time). I wiped it off and considered tossing it into a sealed container with rice. But then I decided to give it a listen. It works fine!



I would still put it in the rice... .just in case


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 5, 2018)

rayliam80 said:


> I accidentally dropped the right earpiece of my ZS10 into my cup of coffee this morning. Fully submerged and all for about 2 seconds at the most. I baby all my IEMs no matter their monetary value so this something that never happens to me (first time). I wiped it off and considered tossing it into a sealed container with rice. But then I decided to give it a listen. It works fine!



If it were me I'd quickly drop it in a cup of warm water for a few seconds (before any coffee residue gets more difficult to dissolve). The last thing you'd want is to unwittingly insert an IEM that may have attracted ants into your ear. If the IEM doesn't work properly after that then $50 for another set is a small price to pay to keep ants out of the ear canals.

Just a thought.


----------



## eclein

Doc I'm starting to worry about you!


----------



## cacio

eclein said:


> I have the BA10's and there is plenty of sub bass regular ordinary bass and every other kind of bass, mids, highs.....i'm an old head drummer, I'm 60 and played since I was a wee shaver of 9. Heard every type of headphone since early days...have a whole bunch, my 64 audio U4-SE's sound great but the BA10's are my go to iems. They get better and better! No BS! I was shocked how good they sounded with maybe 10 hrs on them, any sibilance was gone and if you can get a good seal you'll be in sound Disneyland!
> I'm listening today to my new black sweet looking ZSN's and as they play in they sound excellent....$23 for these make Westone execs appaplectic, jittery and ducking for cover......these are a thrill to find and all sound good...



nice

i see so many of you having so many IEMs, and i know pretty good from myself that i will not swap out IEMs for different music, but rather use a good allrounder ( i had the HAVI B3 Pro and KZ ZS3 and still listened to the ZS3 most of the time even if the HAVIs had wonderful soundstage but they had sadly had no bass  )

so i rather get a good allrounder (and tune them more flat and balanced) for the day to day use. and the ZSN seems to get pretty good reviews, so i think i get those first. and maybe i'll get some higher end IEM later (50-100€) KZ ZS7 etc.


----------



## hakuzen

rayliam80 said:


> I accidentally dropped the right earpiece of my ZS10 into my cup of coffee this morning. Fully submerged and all for about 2 seconds at the most. I baby all my IEMs no matter their monetary value so this something that never happens to me (first time). I wiped it off and considered tossing it into a sealed container with rice. But then I decided to give it a listen. It works fine!


do you notice the hints of aromatic coffee in the sound? if so, keep them as they are, you are the owner of unique ZS10


----------



## DocHoliday

eclein said:


> Doc I'm starting to worry about you!



Who me?!?!

I'm completely mormal. LOL


----------



## cacio

cacio said:


> nice
> 
> i see so many of you having so many IEMs, and i know pretty good from myself that i will not swap out IEMs for different music, but rather use a good allrounder ( i had the HAVI B3 Pro and KZ ZS3 and still listened to the ZS3 most of the time even if the HAVIs had wonderful soundstage but they had sadly had no bass  )
> 
> so i rather get a good allrounder (and tune them more flat and balanced) for the day to day use. and the ZSN seems to get pretty good reviews, so i think i get those first. and maybe i'll get some higher end IEM later (50-100€) KZ ZS7 etc.




oh wait, i just saw that the ED16 are the ZS7 o.O and there are also ZS10. 

KZ should focus on quality over quantity , this naming confuses me


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Isn't it just a ZS4 without the BA? They share a lot of similarities: rendering file, nozzle structure, 8mm DD "polymerized membrane". Looking forward to reading more details about it.



Yes.


----------



## eclein

cacio said:


> oh wait, i just saw that the ED16 are the ZS7 o.O and there are also ZS10.
> 
> KZ should focus on quality over quantity , this naming confuses me



Here's the poop! How much money can you spend without feeling guilty? Now take that # and see which one fits...the ZSN look very sharp by the way!
Go to your favorite online seller and buy some. Dude I'm right there with your Havi thoughts by the way I dug them but zero bass is drag.
 Pull the trigger on your favorite looking one if that helps...


----------



## scottySK

I finally received the new silver and copper blended cable from KZ. It looks nice but is significantly thinner and less soft than the TRN 8 core cables. I like that KZ has also used the memory loop plastic instead of the wire. Overall it's a nice upgrade to stock cables but I guess I was hoping for it to be the same as TRN but with the nicer connectors and copper colour


----------



## cacio

eclein said:


> Here's the poop! How much money can you spend without feeling guilty? Now take that # and see which one fits...the ZSN look very sharp by the way!
> Go to your favorite online seller and buy some. Dude I'm right there with your Havi thoughts by the way I dug them but zero bass is drag.
> Pull the trigger on your favorite looking one if that helps...




i think i get the ZSN first. i already have a full list of stuff i want to buy on 11.11 haha

also i would use them for the gym and some outdoor stuff/work (and there often for audiobooks). for more critical sessions i have my modified (stacked magnets) Takstar PRO 82 over head monitors with a wonderful HiFimeDIY ES9018K2M DAC (good value). 

so a rather wait a bit and get some next level IEM in the future, and then i will be using them on the go for more critical listening


----------



## antdroid (Nov 5, 2018)

*OH MY.  THIS HAS TO BE A DREAM.*

Knowledge Zenith did something different! Something I really am enjoying.

The ZSN is in pink. Sorry, this is a busy chart but I wanted to plot several comparisons in one.

ZSN: Pink
AS10: Gray
ZSA: Green
T2: Blue
TRN V80 - Light Grey



 

*Quick Impressions:*
Great build on this one.
Fit is wonderful.
Cable and connectors is a lot better
Sound is not ultra detailed, but I like the sound signature!

Review in the near future.


----------



## Dreadvil

ZS4 owners,
How do you contain or atleast minimize sibilance on these bad boys?
When I received them they sounded perfect for my taste,but now after 2 weeks I'm starting to notice more and more sibilance,and the letter "s" sounds quite piercing in some songs.Is that normal?I didn't to any burn in's or similair things,just started to use them on a daily basis as soon as they arrived.


----------



## Podster

eclein said:


> I'm so pumped,mine are out for delivery!!



I was going to tell you how jealous I was until 30 minutes ago


----------



## DSebastiao

Dobrescu George said:


> I heard lots of IEMs in that price range tbh, if you have a specific taste, I can try to help you figure what would best fit your needs





Slater said:


> Agreed, let us know your tastes. There's so much good gear less than the AS10 price, I know we can find you something you'll be happy with!





Mellowship said:


> The perfect IEMs are not going to show up riding a white horse on a foggy day...





Zerohour88 said:


> sub $50, you can't go wrong with trying out the Tin Audio T2 (I know this model has been recommended to death, but it does deserve it). Barrel/bullet-type body, so not much fit issues unless you really don't like such shape. No idea on the T2 Pro since haven't had the chance to try that one out, but seems it has more treble (as if the T2 needed more of it)...



Thank you all, i had the ZST's and ZSR, got a pair of HD1 or something (the cheapest ones for my bro, you guys recommended it at the time, it's approved but i don't listen to them that much), the ZST's piercing high's are a no for me, but with the ZSR i get more bass and punch, i love that, i also like detail and soundstage. Right now i can't think of anything more to add, but feel free to ask me things that you might feel important, usually i would say that i'm fine with v-shape, but these last days, i've been thinking that as a drummer, i might want some more mids, but i'm not sure.

Having a detachable cable is a plus, i like the KZ setup regarding that, but sound is a higher priority.


----------



## Incel

Slater said:


> That was a known QC issue with the ZS3. They had a bad batch about a year or so ago. The driver just randomly dies. There is no way to fix it.
> 
> You could reuse the shell and install new drivers. Or use them for spare parts (cable, tips, etc).


My ZS3 and ZS5 v1 both had the same fate. I wonder why that is. Was there a known problem with the wireless cables too? They both failed after I used it, but not immediately.


----------



## Dobrescu George

DSebastiao said:


> Thank you all, i had the ZST's and ZSR, got a pair of HD1 or something (the cheapest ones for my bro, you guys recommended it at the time, it's approved but i don't listen to them that much), the ZST's piercing high's are a no for me, but with the ZSR i get more bass and punch, i love that, i also like detail and soundstage. Right now i can't think of anything more to add, but feel free to ask me things that you might feel important, usually i would say that i'm fine with v-shape, but these last days, i've been thinking that as a drummer, i might want some more mids, but i'm not sure.
> 
> Having a detachable cable is a plus, i like the KZ setup regarding that, but sound is a higher priority.



Maybe get AS10 and see if it works alright. It is the safest bet from what I can gather about your tastes (?) 

It would be great o tell us how you want the bass , mids and treble to be in balance to each other


----------



## Slater

Incel said:


> My ZS3 and ZS5 v1 both had the same fate. I wonder why that is. Was there a known problem with the wireless cables too? They both failed after I used it, but not immediately.



The KZ Bluetooth cables all have various issues. It is best to avoid them.


----------



## Zerohour88

cacio said:


> oh wait, i just saw that the ED16 are the ZS7 o.O and there are also ZS10.
> 
> KZ should focus on quality over quantity , this naming confuses me



its mostly simple now, @Slater broke it down a few pages ago, can't be bothered to find it

implying KZ not focusing on quality just based on the naming of various models is quite reaching. They have several product lines, but the basics are ZS and ED series which encompasses most of their lineup. ED16 which was supposed to be ZS7 is not officially released by KZ, you can check over on their official site and tmall store at the time of release (no idea on what's the reasoning on this model, they might've decided the tuning and design doesn't fall under ZS series).

Then there's the ES series and the latest, AS and BA (which are the start to their full BA series). It might seem a bit much from the outside, but considering how big KZ got over the past few years, it wouldn't be weird for them to have several teams developing models independent of each other (which would also explain how some guys can separate from KZ and make their own brand, like TRN).

Confusing to choose? well, pick a model you like (because the name, the design, etc), read the reviews for it, if you like what you read, then go ahead and get it. Heck, ask here for suggestions on your price range and sound signature or maybe over on the chi-fi thread and there will be a few people that can recommend models even other than KZ.


----------



## DSebastiao

Dobrescu George said:


> Maybe get AS10 and see if it works alright. It is the safest bet from what I can gather about your tastes (?)
> 
> It would be great o tell us how you want the bass , mids and treble to be in balance to each other



Bass varies between the more hip hop style of bass, with those continuous bass lines, almost like it's snoring, to the more metal/rock more on the quick impact and punch style. Hope that helps.

I would have more bass than mids and treble, but then i think that i might like mids and treble both to be balanced IF it doesn't take away detail, but it's all good as long as the high's aren't piercing.


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## Ferrosa (Nov 6, 2018)

Dreadvil said:


> ZS4 owners,
> How do you contain or atleast minimize sibilance on these bad boys?
> When I received them they sounded perfect for my taste,but now after 2 weeks I'm starting to notice more and more sibilance,and the letter "s" sounds quite piercing in some songs.Is that normal?I didn't to any burn in's or similair things,just started to use them on a daily basis as soon as they arrived.



I'm using the grey copper braided cable. Better for mids.
Grace Design M9xx>Foobar-MathAudio Headphone EQ:


----------



## Makahl

Dreadvil said:


> ZS4 owners,
> How do you contain or atleast minimize sibilance on these bad boys?
> When I received them they sounded perfect for my taste,but now after 2 weeks I'm starting to notice more and more sibilance,and the letter "s" sounds quite piercing in some songs.Is that normal?I didn't to any burn in's or similair things,just started to use them on a daily basis as soon as they arrived.



Some options:

- EQ.
- Foam-tips. For taming sibilance foam tips with wax-guard works better.
- Covering the front the of nozzle with 3M micropore before mounting the tip. 
- Something similar to Slater's ZST mod definitely will reduce sibilance.

I usually fix all my sibilance problems with 3M micropore tape nowadays. EQ is good but it's a mess when you need to change source.


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## antdroid

Here's KZ ZSN Diffuse Field Compensation using miniDSP EARS.


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## carltonh

For those who are considering the many dual hybrid KZs, I have the ES3, ES4, ZS4 and the UiiSii CM5 is still significatnly better than all of those. All these KZ hybrids still have a hump, not quite a spike at 12-13K that creates a short tearm clarity but long-listen pain, where the CM5 is still significantly better. My ZS10 is still better, though really needs an EQ cut at 3KHz (or if you are anal, separate cuts at 2Khz and 4KHz instead), plus be able to get a deep insertion fit to work well with great tips, which no KZ tips work for me. Those 3 dual hybrids I have are often considered the more balanced (without treble spikes) of KZ hybrids.

With that EQ on the ZS10, I consider them equal to my Sennheiser HD58X Jubilee with subbass boosted and 5.5KHz cut. But for those without the CM5, they are must-have for the price. Not sure if or when a KZ dual hybrid will compare. I'm using an IFI Nano (pre-Black), Fiio Q1, and LG V20.
;::
Still considering another ZS10 for 11:11 and/or ES16, ZSN, or AS10.  Doubt the ZSN will be as good as the Uiisii CM5.


----------



## voicemaster

Just ordered AS10 from AE with 11.11. my poor wallet!!!


----------



## Le Stef

monitoringsound70 said:


> The bass on the AS10 is more natural, more focused and has more punch than the Es4.
> The BA on the AS10 is Sooooo much better than the dynamic driver on the Es4.
> 
> Very captivating


Thank you ; it sounds very tempting


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## CoiL (Nov 6, 2018)

antdroid said:


> *OH MY.  THIS HAS TO BE A DREAM.*
> 
> Knowledge Zenith did something different! Something I really am enjoying.
> 
> ...





antdroid said:


> Here's KZ ZSN Diffuse Field Compensation using miniDSP EARS.



I think I now have to get my hands on ZSN... don`t want, don`t need... but that graph looks nice... actually too nice for KZ! -.-
Naah... I will let my friend buy it and then have a listen. I really don`t need another KZ.


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## antdroid

CoiL said:


> I think I now have to get my hands on ZSN... don`t want, don`t need... but that graph looks nice... actually too nice for KZ! -.-
> Naah... I will let my friend buy it and then have a listen. I really don`t need another KZ.



Sound sig is pretty good. I think the V80 is better on initial listen (more extended) but this is quite good for $20 (or less on 11.11).


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## fluteloop

Howdy, @Podster    how're you travelin' ? 

Just a quicko, that Setup you just posted in that snap, they play nice together?


----------



## monitoringsound70

So having the AS10s for a few days now here's a more in depth personal view.

Starting with isolation I'm mostly using a wide red bore tip, but have switched to the starline a couple of times, but I prefer the Reds.
Isolation is fantastic, not quite ZS3 suction but it's not far off, excellent. 

Using BA's the bass on these things is incredible, everything from deep to mid to sub bass is all there and it packs a punch, I don't mean in any way it's overpowering but it's definitely the best bass I've heard on any Kz, it's very fast and tight, plus it's very silky and warm..... Actually it's nigh on perfect.

The mids are pure liquid and very natural, very natural indeed, maybe a very slight bump to make them a tad more forward but it's full of timbre, and voices sound amazing. 
Listening to the new David Bowie Loving the alien box set his vocals are presented perfectly, you don't miss a breath
Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Treble is rolled off but accurate, very accurate actually, cymbals sound exactly like cymbals, Snares and drums are presented with oodles of timbre as does a kick drum, but with all this they never give you fatigue. This is Kz getting the treble spot on.

In a word these are brilliant, they're even better than the Zs10 (Which I love) they  have more power and punch but they are still incredibly smooth and never harsh.
They can be very euphoric yet always manage to keep themselves in line, as if they're saying wait I'm a serious monitor lol.

I love these, the Zs10 is no longer the best, but still a very nice partner to these.

If you're on the fence with these then don't be, just pull the trigger, they're worth every penny. 
A warm, accurate, lush, natural and punchy sound, you really can't go wrong.


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## eclein

KZ-ZSN - Black faceplate/Black body and not the cord pictured, which is the only negative so far, sounds fine but not whats pictured. The build I think is exceptional for the price paid and the sound is pretty much spot on. Between these my BA-10’s and ZS5’s I’m thinking of purging my others and splurging for a new DAP or XCAN!
KZ just gets better and I firmly hope the A team that worked these does all the new ones coming (I don’t know how they'll beat these) and these shells become KZ’s thing from now on, the KZ look/style!

KZ send the cable you picture in the future and slap my BA10’s in these shells for me ok.....lol.
Wouldn’t it be nice to pick your favorite configuration or model and have it put in one of these new look really sharp looking shells! Lots of variables would need to be adjusted but I’d love that high end option..say $25 a pop.....hahaha....amazing stuff KZ!!


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## Podster (Nov 6, 2018)

Drumkrunk said:


> Howdy, @Podster    how're you travelin' ?
> 
> Just a quicko, that Setup you just posted in that snap, they play nice together?



Guessing you are referring to my new Benjie S5 BT, I've got a Red non BT and have probably given 7-8 as gifts ever since I got my first one. In my honest opinion bang for buck the S5 at <$25 can't be beat as for what it is it has a great little UI and once again IMHO probably the best SQ/SS of any player less than $25. Did I mention the little thing runs for ever and ever between charges! Probably the longest answer for the simple "Do they play well together" The T6 sounds pretty much identical to the S5 as well should you like the look of the T6 more





I will say the black on smoke ZSN really looks good with a mountain of players/player combos


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## loomisjohnson

so, apropos of nothing, i pulled out my zst and ed9 from way in the back of my drawer and gave 'em a listen in order to compare to the current zs4, zsr and ed16, which have been getting a lot of ear time. the zst, which i kinda liked back in the day, really don't hold up well--the mids are so flat and recessed that they end up sounding lifeless. the ed9, otoh, still got the magic--the current kzs have the bigger stage, beefier bass, greater extension, etc., but dammit if the ed9 still doesn't trump 'em for "realness" and coherence--they have that indefinable analog quality.


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## randomnin

antdroid said:


> *OH MY.  THIS HAS TO BE A DREAM.*
> 
> Knowledge Zenith did something different! Something I really am enjoying.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this.
I like the graph. The 30Hz and below doesn't descend like T2 and V80. Midbass isn't prominent. There's a 3-4kHz peak, but it descends too abruptly. On the bright side, there's no sudden 8-10kHz peak, so it's easier to equalize it up, if more treble necessary. I think I'd also up 20-100Hz at least a few dBs. Anyhow, I guess I'm sold, well, I'll see how it's in the flesh after arrival.


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## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Guessing you are referring to my new Benjie S5 BT, I've got a Red non BT and have probably given 7-8 as gifts ever since I got my first one. In my honest opinion bang for buck the S5 at <$25 can't be beat as for what it is it has a great little UI and once again IMHO probably the best SQ/SS of any player less than $25. Did I mention the little thing runs for ever and ever between charges! Probably the longest answer for the simple "Do they play well together" The T6 sounds pretty much identical to the S5 as well should you like the look of the T6 more
> 
> 
> 
> I will say the black on smoke ZSN really looks good with a mountain of players/player combos


The S5 is a great addition to any collection! It even plays well enough with the zs5v1. That little player has his own place in the portable audio heaven! It just has this nice resolute attack and ability to keep pace... It is the small Italian hatchback, not much top speed, not much refinement, good acceleration and great driving pleasure. (And quite low mileage)


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## 1clearhead (Nov 6, 2018)

QUOTE="antdroid, post: 14580647, member: 456456"]*OH MY.  THIS HAS TO BE A DREAM.*

Knowledge Zenith did something different! Something I really am enjoying.

The ZSN is in pink. Sorry, this is a busy chart but I wanted to plot several comparisons in one.

ZSN: Pink
AS10: Gray
ZSA: Green
T2: Blue
TRN V80 - Light Grey



*Quick Impressions:*
Great build on this one.
Fit is wonderful.
Cable and connectors is a lot better
Sound is not ultra detailed, but I like the sound signature!

Review in the near future.[/QUOTE]
+1 Yup, a totally different sound and style. I wasn't expecting a surprise homerun from KZ at such a low price.


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## fluteloop

@Podster   thank you, they all look wonderful, I didnt realise they were In that price region, I think xmas is going to be rockin for a few folks.  That Red Benjie looks striking, I'm a fan and I agree the Black Zsn look very neat indeed. Nice Bitta kit that would superb in any setting, indeed. Thanks again.


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## fluteloop

@1clearhead hehehe. Sounds like the perfect gift for a music lover who has been wanting to reconnect with their music.


----------



## Podster

Drumkrunk said:


> @Podster   thank you, they all look wonderful, I didnt realise they were In that price region, I think xmas is going to be rockin for a few folks.  That Red Benjie looks striking, I'm a fan and I agree the Black Zsn look very neat indeed. Nice Bitta kit that would superb in any setting, indeed. Thanks again.



My pleasure Drum I actually keep this kit 




 

ready to grab and go at any moment plus a big advantage for me and far less stress is the fact should I pull one of my early Alzheimer's episodes and misplace it I'm only out $41 Not only does this setup match they gel like crazy for that $41


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## fluteloop

Podster said:


> My pleasure Drum I actually keep this kit
> 
> 
> 
> ready to grab and go at any moment plus a big advantage for me and far less stress is the fact should I pull one of my early Alzheimer's episodes and misplace it I'm only out $41 Not only does this setup match they gel like crazy for that $41



Oohhh that is flashy! I've always had a thing for red anodized hardware, I tend to pick it whenever I'm selecting parts of all kinds. That bug out kit is badass. I never thought one day you could have such sound for the ballpark of 40 and also have enough options to coordinate the kit together. Very Sweet.


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## DocHoliday (Nov 6, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> so, apropos of nothing, i pulled out my zst and ed9 from way in the back of my drawer and gave 'em a listen in order to compare to the current zs4, zsr and ed16, which have been getting a lot of ear time. the zst, which i kinda liked back in the day, really don't hold up well--the mids are so flat and recessed that they end up sounding lifeless.



Pulled out my ZST's as well last night and compared them to the ZSA. It only took ten minutes for me to decide to permanently retire the ZST. The ZST was a huge step forward for KZ when they were originally released but the ZSA is far ahead in timbre and delivery. Mind you, I listen to the ZSA with Tennmak Whirlwinds at very moderate levels. I think they are a highly entertaining class act.



loomisjohnson said:


> the ed9, otoh, still got the magic--the current kzs have the bigger stage, beefier bass, greater extension, etc., but dammit if the ed9 still doesn't trump 'em for "realness" and coherence--they have that indefinable analog quality.



Again, to me the ZSA have that "realness and coherence" that you speak of with the ED9. The ZSA does not sound like the ED9 but the airiness in juxtaposition to the weight contribute to that "indefinable" quality that you speak of. Those qualities and their great sense of timbre remind me of the ED9's approach to delivering an exceptional sound signature at a ridiculously low price point ($16). To me their only drawback is the need for more presence in the lower midrange. Sure the bass can be drawn down a notch but they're so entertaining the way they are currently tuned that I prefer to leave it alone and let KZ release another model with said drawdown of bass and more presence in the lower midrange. In the meantime these will get plenty of eartime.

The ZSA seem to have gotten lost amidst the influx of KZ's newer releases which is a shame for those who will overlook these for the current "flavor of the month" but it won't be the first time that has happened. The EDR1 was overlooked for a few YEARS until Slater recently pointed out their capabilities. 



 

Props to Igor for the graph


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## BrunoC (Nov 6, 2018)

I pulled my KZ ZS5 v1, months after the last session, and I'm amazed.
Damn, it just makes the TRN V80 eat dust. Much more coherent and without that V80's artifical and tiring treble.
Mids recessed? Maybe a little bit but they blend greatly in the wide wide soundstage the ZS5 offers.
The separation is top notch.

What a gem!

ZS5 v1 is a LEGEND in the chifi. 

Edit: I'm buying the AS10. Is it really an upgrade?


----------



## EDG67

carltonh said:


> For those who are considering the many dual hybrid KZs, I have the ES3, ES4, ZS4 and the UiiSii CM5 is still significatnly better than all of those. All these KZ hybrids still have a hump, not quite a spike at 12-13K that creates a short tearm clarity but long-listen pain, where the CM5 is still significantly better. My ZS10 is still better, though really needs an EQ cut at 3KHz (or if you are anal, separate cuts at 2Khz and 4KHz instead), plus be able to get a deep insertion fit to work well with great tips, which no KZ tips work for me. Those 3 dual hybrids I have are often considered the more balanced (without treble spikes) of KZ hybrids.
> 
> With that EQ on the ZS10, I consider them equal to my Sennheiser HD58X Jubilee with subbass boosted and 5.5KHz cut. But for those without the CM5, they are must-have for the price. Not sure if or when a KZ dual hybrid will compare. I'm using an IFI Nano (pre-Black), Fiio Q1, and LG V20.
> ;::
> Still considering another ZS10 for 11:11 and/or ES16, ZSN, or AS10.  Doubt the ZSN will be as good as the Uiisii CM5.


If you mean ED16 I have that and Uiisii CM5 and it is no contest for me,the CM5 is flat out better in every aspect. ED16 have more bass but overall I much prefer the CM5. Just amazing.Am thinking of trying the ZSN, really like the looks of them.


----------



## Slater (Nov 6, 2018)

Podster said:


> Guessing you are referring to my new Benjie S5 BT, I've got a Red non BT and have probably given 7-8 as gifts ever since I got my first one. In my honest opinion bang for buck the S5 at <$25 can't be beat as for what it is it has a great little UI and once again IMHO probably the best SQ/SS of any player less than $25. Did I mention the little thing runs for ever and ever between charges! Probably the longest answer for the simple "Do they play well together" The T6 sounds pretty much identical to the S5 as well should you like the look of the T6 more
> 
> 
> 
> I will say the black on smoke ZSN really looks good with a mountain of players/player combos



So what’s better, the S5 or the T6? I assume S5, because it’s touchscreen?

And are all S5 versions Bluetooth?


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> So what’s better, the S5 or the T6? I assume S5, because it’s touchscreen?
> 
> And are all S5 versions Bluetooth?



SS/SQ is almost Identical and I still prefer the S5 to the T6. You have to select Blue tooth model, it was an addition after the initial run.


----------



## fluteloop (Nov 6, 2018)

nxnje said:


> Zs6 arrived at me.
> Connected immediately to my dap.
> I have to say: they seem quite good, but sibilance is really killing my ears with stocks tips
> 
> ...



I'm not saying my solution will help you but what I did was, removed the grille, put a tiny piece of Micropore white medical tape over the two BA holes in the nozzle, glued grille back on.  Coarse weave wound dressing adhesive "Heavy Duty" style dressing the type that is heavy fabric, cut with fine sharp scissors - 1 layer covered grille. poly open cell foam carefully cut into little pompoms of various sizes and stuffed into the hole after the silicone tip is put back on testing different foam balls to tube sound... this brings the highs into line.  The foam I used was from a pack of 6 kitchen sponge/scourer found at cheap variety store worked really well, other foams were too dense or too crispy. hard to say, this foam didnt change the sound it just tamed highs (i tried every piece of open cell foam I could see).  you may just have luck putting micropore tape over your grille and that might be adequate for you,  combined with eq or something, I wanted a solution that nipped it in the bud rather than having 20 different eq settings across sources etc. best of luck, also I remember the zs6 was unusually harsh for the first 100 hours or so.

the reason I put micropore under the grille directly over the BA nozzles was I also found (well, my roll of tape, anyway) micropore on the grille directly left this slippery residue (*genuine 3m tape from pharmacy) that made my tips slide off, (maybe was the wrong tip from another kz that got mixed up) but whilst out and about having the tips keep sliding off was patience testing to say the least especially when one of my jams came on and I was feeling the groove.  

if you don't wanna muck around with grilles and tapes and adhesives  spray spray sasha grey..

just find some open cell foam from something Clean (obvious) that you can sacrifice for your tests and just cut little cylindrical drums of foam up and use the 3.5mm jack to stuf them into the nozzle of the tip and be sure to get the little pieces symmetrical and while your testing the first cut a pair of bigger and a pair of smaller pieces to test and tune your sound,... if it's not enough cut larger pair still and jam it into the nozzle. use care the grille isn't thick gauge you can damage it and you're just pushing foam in. best of luck.

you also don't want excess foam dangling out of the nozzle tickling your inner canal like a cheeky microscopic racoon just meddling about in the intimates of your ear, so chop it thicc and W.i.d.e as opposed to long and Slender   XD


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> So what’s better, the S5 or the T6? I assume S5, because it’s touchscreen?
> 
> And are all S5 versions Bluetooth?





Podster said:


> SS/SQ is almost Identical and I still prefer the S5 to the T6. You have to select Blue tooth model, it was an addition after the initial run.


T6 is rockboxable now. if sound is very similar, the new feature makes a big difference.


----------



## nxnje

I can't even try thid anymore, as i've said some posts ago, i returned them back to amazon because of fitting problems 


Drumkrunk said:


> I'm not saying my solution will help you but what I did was, removed the grille, put a tiny piece of Micropore white medical tape over the two BA holes in the nozzle, glued grille back on.  Coarse weave wound dressing adhesive "Heavy Duty" style dressing the type that is heavy fabric, cut with fine sharp scissors - 1 layer covered grille. poly open cell foam carefully cut into little pompoms of various sizes and stuffed into the hole after the silicone tip is put back on testing different foam balls to tube sound... this brings the highs into line.  The foam I used was from a pack of 6 kitchen sponge/scourer found at cheap variety store worked really well, other foams were too dense or too crispy. hard to say, this foam didnt change the sound it just tamed highs (i tried every piece of open cell foam I could see).  you may just have luck putting micropore tape over your grille and that might be adequate for you,  combined with eq or something, I wanted a solution that nipped it in the bud rather than having 20 different eq settings across sources etc. best of luck, also I remember the zs6 was unusually harsh for the first 100 hours or so.
> 
> the reason I put micropore under the grille directly over the BA nozzles was I also found (well, my roll of tape, anyway) micropore on the grille directly left this slippery residue (*genuine 3m tape from pharmacy) that made my tips slide off, (maybe was the wrong tip from another kz that got mixed up) but whilst out and about having the tips keep sliding off was patience testing to say the least especially when one of my jams came on and I was feeling the groove.
> 
> ...


----------



## scottySK

Used the ZS10 today with a new Bluetooth amp/dac and I'm noticing more instrument separation and less harshness up top. Really is a nice earphone in the sub $30usd price range


----------



## CoiL

BrunoC said:


> I pulled my KZ ZS5 v1, months after the last session, and I'm amazed.
> Damn, it just makes the TRN V80 eat dust. Much more coherent and without that V80's artifical and tiring treble.
> Mids recessed? Maybe a little bit but they blend greatly in the wide wide soundstage the ZS5 offers.
> The separation is top notch.
> ...


Confirm this! With proper amping and source gear - ZS5v1 is amazing, almost holographic I would say! ;P


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Confirm this! With proper amping and source gear - ZS5v1 is amazing, almost holographic I would say! ;P


Lucky ones that got two of those!


----------



## Mellowship

BrunoC said:


> I pulled my KZ ZS5 v1, months after the last session, and I'm amazed.
> Damn, it just makes the TRN V80 eat dust. Much more coherent and without that V80's artifical and tiring treble.
> Mids recessed? Maybe a little bit but they blend greatly in the wide wide soundstage the ZS5 offers.
> The separation is top notch.
> ...



I would not classify the AS10 as an upgrade to the ZS5v1, but as a great sidekick. They are both excellent for their price, and different from each other enough to justify having both around. They are currently my favourite IEM. 
The AS10 has a faster bass and a more coherent behaviour with all kinds of music. The treble is more refined and laid-back (but not sleep-inducing! It is still energetic and clean, while not suffering from the typical new-gen KZ sibilance). In terms of spacial definition, the ZS5v1 is slightly better, with a wider and deeper soundstage and imaging, while the AS10 puts the image somewhat too close to your head and you need more brain processing to get things more defined. 
Regarding comfort, the AS10 is smaller and the housing is rounder. My big ears and ear canals don't get affected with either one of them, but for those with smaller ears, the AS10 seems to hit a soft-spot. If you feel the ZS5 pressing against some part of your ears with its sharp edges, you won't have a problem with AS10.
What I don't like about them: the original cables. The ZS5 comes with that greenish piece of crap. Both come with that memory wire. All my memory wires were removed from the cables, and in the AS10's cable, the removal stripped of one of the wires from the plug, ruining the cable. Currently, one of my ZS5 is with a KZ USB-C dac cable, the other is wired with a KZ silver(?) and copper grey (brownish) cable, and the AS10 with a TRN 8 conductors black and silver cable.


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## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 7, 2018)

Which KZ IEM's sound as good, close to as good or better than the Tin Audio T2's? Or all of the above.  Thanks.


----------



## BrunoC

Mellowship said:


> I would not classify the AS10 as an upgrade to the ZS5v1, but as a great sidekick. They are both excellent for their price, and different from each other enough to justify having both around. They are currently my favourite IEM.
> The AS10 has a faster bass and a more coherent behaviour with all kinds of music. The treble is more refined and laid-back (but not sleep-inducing! It is still energetic and clean, while not suffering from the typical new-gen KZ sibilance). In terms of spacial definition, the ZS5v1 is slightly better, with a wider and deeper soundstage and imaging, while the AS10 puts the image somewhat too close to your head and you need more brain processing to get things more defined.
> Regarding comfort, the AS10 is smaller and the housing is rounder. My big ears and ear canals don't get affected with either one of them, but for those with smaller ears, the AS10 seems to hit a soft-spot. If you feel the ZS5 pressing against some part of your ears with its sharp edges, you won't have a problem with AS10.
> What I don't like about them: the original cables. The ZS5 comes with that greenish piece of crap. Both come with that memory wire. All my memory wires were removed from the cables, and in the AS10's cable, the removal stripped of one of the wires from the plug, ruining the cable. Currently, one of my ZS5 is with a KZ USB-C dac cable, the other is wired with a KZ silver(?) and copper grey (brownish) cable, and the AS10 with a TRN 8 conductors black and silver cable.



Thank for your detailed reply.

I have a lot of "IEM sidekicks" which of course I blame HeadFi for. Actually too many, and I still find the ZS5v1 one of the best, but yes,I bet I'll like the AS10. 
I also have lots of earbuds, which I find have incredible price/performance, but that's another story...


----------



## Mellowship

BrunoC said:


> Thank for your detailed reply.
> 
> I have a lot of "IEM sidekicks" which of course I blame HeadFi for. Actually too many, and I still find the ZS5v1 one of the best, but yes,I bet I'll like the AS10.
> I also have lots of earbuds, which I find have incredible price/performance, but that's another story...



Glad to find someone from my hometown here, carago!


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which KZ IEM's sound as good, close to as good or better than the Tin Audio T2's? Or all of the above.  Thanks.


None?


----------



## Slater (Nov 7, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which KZ IEM's sound as good, close to as good or better than the Tin Audio T2's? Or all of the above.  Thanks.



Why not just get the T2? At $24 during 11.11, there’s no KZ that’s any better at <$24.

Here’s the (currently available) KZ choices <$24 KZ:

ZS1 v2
ZS2
ZS3 v1
ZS4
ZS5 v2
ZSA
ZSE
ZSN
ZST
EDR1
EDR2
EDSE
ED9
ED12
ED15
ED16
ES3
ES4
ATE
ATR
HD9
If I had to pick 1 that was the _closest_, I  say the ED9 (with the balanced nozzle). But with the T2 you are gaining a removable mmcx cable vs fixed, and a double dynamic w/crossover vs a single dynamic.

_P.S. - I didn’t even include the ED4 on the list, because it’s an abomination lol_


----------



## antdroid

The ZSN measures similarly to the T2. It has a warmer signature though.


----------



## Podster (Nov 7, 2018)

LOL @Slater , that p.s. slays me

Holy Macaroni, just realized Pod may be Bi Seems the best of both worlds here






I see the Rock-Boxable Blue tooth Benjie T6 is going for $42.50 on 11/11 and well worth it for these two added features from the original Did I mention that includes a 32GB MSD card

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...59fda248e1dfbbee940edc_1541603403_32856559739


----------



## eclein

Podster I ordered Red Benjie S5B to go with my Red/Gold BA10’s ...haha....then I resaw your post way back with the Red rig you have going.....sublimal ordering....is that a thing?
I’m seriously thinking of selling my 64 audio iems... I like the BA10 sound better, its way more open and detailed.
Am I losing it? Actually maybe its already lost.


----------



## 1clearhead

Mellowship said:


> Lucky ones that got two of those!


I'm feeling lucky, now!


----------



## Podster

eclein said:


> Podster I ordered Red Benjie S5B to go with my Red/Gold BA10’s ...haha....then I resaw your post way back with the Red rig you have going.....sublimal ordering....is that a thing?
> I’m seriously thinking of selling my 64 audio iems... I like the BA10 sound better, its way more open and detailed.
> Am I losing it? Actually maybe its already lost.



This happens when one OD's on Crabby Patties


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Why not just get the T2? At $24 during 11.11, there’s no KZ that’s any better at <$24.
> 
> Here’s the (currently available) KZ choices <$24 KZ:
> 
> ...


"better" is of course, inherently subjective. i would say that the t2 is more refined than any of the foregoing kzs in the sense of being a more accurate reproduction of sound, though i personally get more enjoyment out of the ed16/zsr/ed9 (with the gold filter), which are bassier and less analytical (as well as better isolation).


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> "better" is of course, inherently subjective. i would say that the t2 is more refined than any of the foregoing kzs in the sense of being a more accurate reproduction of sound, though i personally get more enjoyment out of the ed16/zsr/ed9 (with the gold filter), which are bassier and less analytical (as well as better isolation).



Not to mention the the ED9 in that configuration is probably the most musical iem at <$10 on the planet If Pod wants analytical he'll do a complex math problem, plus musical is the critics nightmare


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> "better" is of course, inherently subjective. i would say that the t2 is more refined than any of the foregoing kzs in the sense of being a more accurate reproduction of sound, though i personally get more enjoyment out of the ed16/zsr/ed9 (with the gold filter), which are bassier and less analytical (as well as better isolation).



Agreed. It’s all subjective.


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> The ZSN measures similarly to the T2. It has a warmer signature though.



Mine are still en route, so I have not been able to compare them to anything.

However, from what I’ve read about the ZSN so far, I anticipate it being similar to the T2. I’ll find out when they arrive


----------



## Podster (Nov 7, 2018)

In Pod's opinion they are worthy opponents No fancy smancy testing just what his old ears comprehend


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Mine are still en route, so I have not been able to compare them to anything.
> 
> However, from what I’ve read about the ZSN so far, I anticipate it being similar to the T2. I’ll find out when they arrive



My ZSN has arrived in the country.  I will not be comparing them to them T2 as I have never been tempted by it.  If @HungryPanda wants to compare he can borrow my ZSN for a minute...or 10


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Why not just get the T2? At $24 during 11.11, there’s no KZ that’s any better at <$24.
> 
> Here’s the (currently available) KZ choices <$24 KZ:
> 
> ...


The ED9 was my first IEM but I lost one of the filter's and now I've lost the IEM. I think I gave it away before ever paying attention to it. Maybe I'll buy it again? You're saying a $10 ED9 is close to or better then the $50 T2? That's incredible value.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

antdroid said:


> The ZSN measures similarly to the T2. It has a warmer signature though.


Warmer should always be better, no? Like LED light bulbs and old incandescent light bulbs. I'll take the warmer incandescent, any day.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


> Not to mention the the ED9 in that configuration is probably the most musical iem at <$10 on the planet If Pod wants analytical he'll do a complex math problem, plus musical is the critics nightmare


I don't think price should matter anymore. I've wasted hundreds of dollars on <$15US IEM's but what is better is the quality of the earbud/iem compared to others, not price after I've made that bad mistake.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

loomisjohnson said:


> "better" is of course, inherently subjective. i would say that the t2 is more refined than any of the foregoing kzs in the sense of being a more accurate reproduction of sound, though i personally get more enjoyment out of the ed16/zsr/ed9 (with the gold filter), which are bassier and less analytical (as well as better isolation).


Good post, I'll skip the T2. I do have ED16, but may need to buy the ED9 again and ZSR for the first time... If one buys the ZSR, there's no point for an ED9?


----------



## loomisjohnson

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Good post, I'll skip the T2. I do have ED16, but may need to buy the ED9 again and ZSR for the first time... If one buys the ZSR, there's no point for an ED9?


no, actually the ed16 sounds like a slightly tamer version of the zsr--same basic signature. the ed9 is different--smaller stage, less sizzle but very coherent and natural sounding.


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Good post, I'll skip the T2. I do have ED16, but may need to buy the ED9 again and ZSR for the first time... If one buys the ZSR, there's no point for an ED9?



Those two are totally different KZ's but IMO also worth both their current asking prices. I was thinking I just had a PM going with Slater about the sound virtues of the ED9's musicality but from your quality point of view they are proving their worth in that area with my 17 year old who went thru three nice pairs of TA Techne's and his ED9's are performing outstandingly as his since of care/preservation is non existent


----------



## antdroid

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Warmer should always be better, no? Like LED light bulbs and old incandescent light bulbs. I'll take the warmer incandescent, any day.



Depends what you're after. In general, I like neutral-ish sound down low with a little warmth. Sometimes, I just match my more analytical headphones with a warmer amp like a tube amp, and I really dig it. The one thing with "warmer" headphones is it does get a little too laid back and you miss some details down low, or in the lower mids. But yea, in general a little warmth soothes the soul (my soul that is).


----------



## Slater (Nov 7, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ED9 was my first IEM but I lost one of the filter's and now I've lost the IEM. I think I gave it away before ever paying attention to it. Maybe I'll buy it again? You're saying a $10 ED9 is close to or better then the $50 T2? That's incredible value.



I’m saying it’s the *closest* I’ve heard if I was only limiting myself to that <$25 KZ list (as the T2 is $25 for 11.11).

I have not heard the ZSN though.

And I did not compare any >$25 KZs, such as ZS10, BA10, AS10, ZS6, etc.

The point of that post was if you wanted something as close to the T2 as possible (but at a cost savings), it should be compared to the T2’s price or below. Because if you really wanted a T2, it would make no sense to buy a $50 KZ when you could get (2) T2s for that. That’s why I set the limit of my comparison list at $25.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Podster said:


> Those two are totally different KZ's but IMO also worth both their current asking prices. I was thinking I just had a PM going with Slater about the sound virtues of the ED9's musicality but from your quality point of view they are proving their worth in that area with my 17 year old who went thru three nice pairs of TA Techne's and his ED9's are performing outstandingly as his since of care/preservation is non existent


we must have the same kid--the iems i've given him spend more time in the washing machine than his ears.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> we must have the same kid--the iems i've given him spend more time in the washing machine than his ears.



Yep, although he mangled the stationary cables (what gave out finally on all 3) on those TA Techne's his mom probably washed each of them no less than a half dozen times they played as clean (pun intended) as ever each time they came out the washer Craziest thing is he feels the ED9's are the second best pair of iem's I've ever given him! To think back now I could have given him 16 pairs of ED9's Or saved myself a WHOLE bunch of $$$


----------



## loomisjohnson

Podster said:


> Yep, although he mangled the stationary cables (what gave out finally on all 3) on those TA Techne's his mom probably washed each of them no less than a half dozen times they played as clean (pun intended) as ever each time they came out the washer Craziest thing is he feels the ED9's are the second best pair of iem's I've ever given him! To think back now I could have given him 16 pairs of ED9's Or saved myself a WHOLE bunch of $$$


no way i'm giving my little stronz anything as nice as the techne--he gets the ones i can't abide, like the hds2 or the rock zircon (and even those with great reluctance, since i should give 'em to the homeless or whomever). otoh, my dogs take meticulous care of their chew toys...


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> no way i'm giving my little stronz anything as nice as the techne--he gets the ones i can't abide, like the hds2 or the rock zircon (and even those with great reluctance, since i should give 'em to the homeless or whomever). otoh, my dogs take meticulous care of their chew toys...



LOL, my dog treats his chew toys as the 17 year old does his iem's but my 15 year old has a much higher respect for his ZS6's and music in general. However he's been hooked on his wireless pods of late!


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> no way i'm giving my little stronz anything as nice as the techne--he gets the ones i can't abide, like the hds2 or the rock zircon (and even those with great reluctance, since i should give 'em to the homeless or whomever). otoh, my dogs take meticulous care of their chew toys...



HDS2 are too fragile - they likely wouldn't last 2 weeks if abused by a teenager. The wire strain coming out of the shell is a joke. And if the tips are messed with too much, there's a good chance the 2 halves of the shell will separate.

If it was me, I'd give the kid the Zircon and the HDS2 to the family cat lol


----------



## Mybutthurts

Nice to see your son has the same pet name as mine...had it for at least 23 years.


loomisjohnson said:


> no way i'm giving my little stronz anything as nice as the techne--he gets the ones i can't abide, like the hds2 or the rock zircon (and even those with great reluctance, since i should give 'em to the homeless or whomever). otoh, my dogs take meticulous care of their chew toys...


----------



## Dobrescu George

So I got the BA 10 thingy (?) 

This is the most cubic IEM I have ever seen in my entire life


----------



## HungryPanda

Dobrescu George said:


> So I got the BA 10 thingy (?)
> 
> This is the most cubic IEM I have ever seen in my entire life


But it does sound good


----------



## sino8r

Dobrescu George said:


> So I got the BA 10 thingy (?)
> 
> This is the most cubic IEM I have ever seen in my entire life



Welcome the world of robot ears, human. Aka Iron Man ears, Mr. Robot, etc. I really wanted to love mine as they sounded nice but the shape was painful... Might as well try the AS10s if comfort is an issue.



Mybutthurts said:


> Nice to see your son has the same pet name as mine...had it for at least 23 years.



That's a pet name? In bast@rdized Italian here in US, it refers to a turd lol! Needless to say, it was my nickname and my grandfathers


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Welcome the world of robot ears, human. Aka Iron Man ears, Mr. Robot, etc. I really wanted to love mine as they sounded nice but the shape was painful...



Perhaps the fit could be adjusted using thermoplastic, like this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/custom-ear-molds-for-iems.830823/page-3#post-14560804


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Perhaps the fit could be adjusted using thermoplastic, like this:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/custom-ear-molds-for-iems.830823/page-3#post-14560804



Not a bad idea although I sent my back along with the AS10. They sounded really good but was on the hunt for some iems with great mids and settled on the Fiio FH5 after trying all some of TFZs as well. Really digging the IMR R1s right now. All the filter options are great and they have some of the greatest bass I've ever heard for iems. I did experiment with the filters some and did find out a few things that are related to the KZs though. And you'd especially appreciate it, Slater. The BAs mods can really be improved with foam instead of cotton. The foam that is used for cases is about the same density they use in sound isolation and works really well. I'm gonna try that with some of my KZS6s. I wish I still had the BA10 and AS10 to try this on. Might be worth a shot for those trying to tame the treble and add additional bass. Looking forward to what KZ comes up with next because the AS10s and BA10s are really polished. They can hang with the high end TFZs at this point and that's quite the complement!


----------



## xinn47 (Nov 7, 2018)

Got an ED16 to replace my ES4, fitted them with KZ foam tips and damn, they sound really good and quite dangerous for walking around outside with these because of the isolation. The problem is that the foam tips won't stay on the IEM and stays in my ears when I remove them. Got any solution for those?


----------



## Slater

xinn47 said:


> The problem is that the foam tips won't stay on the IEM and stays in my ears when I remove them. Got any solution for those?



You can buy foam tips that fit a variety of nozzles. Sounds like you simply need a proper fitting foam tip (ie T100, T200, T400, T500, T600).

What is the nozzle diameter of the ED16?


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Not a bad idea although I sent my back along with the AS10. They sounded really good but was on the hunt for some iems with great mids and settled on the Fiio FH5 after trying all some of TFZs as well. Really digging the IMR R1s right now. All the filter options are great and they have some of the greatest bass I've ever heard for iems. I did experiment with the filters some and did find out a few things that are related to the KZs though. And you'd especially appreciate it, Slater. The BAs mods can really be improved with foam instead of cotton. The foam that is used for cases is about the same density they use in sound isolation and works really well. I'm gonna try that with some of my KZS6s. I wish I still had the BA10 and AS10 to try this on. Might be worth a shot for those trying to tame the treble and add additional bass. Looking forward to what KZ comes up with next because the AS10s and BA10s are really polished. They can hang with the high end TFZs at this point and that's quite the complement!



Nice job friend! It's always rewarding to experiment with your audio gear and find improvements 

You're right - the foam from some cases works great for dampening and tuning headphones and earphones.

I used the foam from a KZ case to dampen the BA on the ZST. It worked great, and the same idea can be adapter to most IEMs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## rayliam80 (Nov 8, 2018)

The ZSN arrived today. It took less than 10 days to arrive from Gearbest. I'm happy that they have pretty much the same shell shape as the ZST which fits my ears really well. I think they look better in person than most of the pics that are out there. I really like them with Auvio tips but the included Starline tips aren't bad either, I'm just getting a better fit is all. These are more comfortable for me compared to my personal current KZ favorite, the ZS10. Lots has already been said on this thread about the SQ of the ZSN. For me, it's rather bright, punchy with lots of clarity and details and also, @DocHoliday I agree with your sentiments about these forever retiring the ZST - it's a major step up.

I'll compare the ZSN to the ZSA first by using my Liquid Spark in low gain mode and both with Auvio tips. I find the ZSA to be less energetic and less sensitive compared to the ZSN. The timbre is very close, with maybe a slight edge to the ZSN. Soundstage and instrument separation sounds similar too but I do wonder if the ZSN's brightness is deceiving me a little bit so I'm just going to say they are even.

When plugging the ZSN into iEmatch port of my iFi Nano BL, the brightness goes down significantly and becomes less fatiguing similar to what I find with the ZS6. The ZSN becomes a more enjoyable IEM in this particular setup. The ZSA sounds more even with relatively no change in its sound signature between a typical amp (Liquid Spark) and the iEmatch port. If I didn't have iEmatch, I'd would choose the ZSA. If I had iEmatch, I'd go with the ZSN. If you happen to *already* own an iEmatch adapter or have an iFi device with it, I think for $15 - $20 USD these would be pretty good for a beater IEM.


----------



## maxdurak (Nov 8, 2018)

Hello, everyone. Really looking forward to try ZSN, but is there any bluetooth adapter for it? Judging by the pictures its connector is rounded on both sides unlike any other KZ 2-pin connector, or am i wrong?


----------



## Mellowship

maxdurak said:


> Hello, everyone. Really looking forward to try ZSN, but is there any bluetooth adapter for it?



Some thread pages ago, I ranted about the ever-changing nature of KZ regarding plug systems on cables. There was the now called A-type, used by ZS3,4,5,6,A. Then, the B-type, by the ZST, ED12, ES4, AS10, BA10 and some more. I'm not even talking about some 2-pin cables with 0,78mm pins that were sent with some 0.75mm earphones...  If we look way behind, the KZ IE80 used the... Sennheiser plug (of course it did, it was a copy)! And now - the protruded female jack in the ZSN! 
So, the answer is... yes and no. Any 2-pin 0.75mm will work with the ZSN but will hang out awkwardly instead of being snuggly connected to the shell. Until KZ makes a ZSN compatible BT module... 
I don't believe other brands, like TRN, will make something like that. BT modules by TRN seem to be better than those of KZ, but the plugs on offer are different. 

TLDR: The main difference here is that prior KZ designs regarding the female jacks were recessed in the shells, but ZSN's protruded, so every 0.75 mm plug will fit but will become a huge connection!


----------



## drawun (Nov 8, 2018)

xinn47 said:


> Got an ED16 to replace my ES4, fitted them with KZ foam tips and damn, they sound really good and quite dangerous for walking around outside with these because of the isolation. The problem is that the foam tips won't stay on the IEM and stays in my ears when I remove them. Got any solution for those?


Mine never had that problem with this. Ordered wrong size though. Getting the correct size this coming 11.11.
Edit: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cCe3FPMc


----------



## Audiostart

There are 2 types of foam tips, with rubber insert and without. Guess you got without. I got a pair of T400 with rubber tube inside, no problems with ED16. Still prefer tips from Rock Zircon though.


----------



## 1clearhead

maxdurak said:


> Hello, everyone. Really looking forward to try ZSN, but is there any bluetooth adapter for it? Judging by the pictures its connector is rounded on both sides unlike any other KZ 2-pin connector, or am i wrong?


I've been searching since last week, but it looks like one built specifically for the ZSN might not be out yet.


----------



## antdroid

1clearhead said:


> I've been searching since last week, but it looks like one built specifically for the ZSN might not be out yet.



Any 2-pin will work. It’ll just stick out further than normal. Pins will still go all the way in, but it’ll look a little weird.

I had this same issue with my Unique Melody IEM which has the same style connector as ZSN.


----------



## eclein

Anybody use a MAC? I'm in need of some info...hooking my ibasso D14 to MacPro via USB??? Is there a USB driver needed? Link?
Sorry I'm off topic but I trust you guys.
THX


----------



## Tunaa

stryed said:


> I really like the ZS5 and will be getting a ZS6 for 11.11 without the mic cable for a change as I really enjoy the soundstage and treble is not a problem.Would really like a lip on the nozzle but that seems hard to find on AE...
> Any info on when the ZS7 will be out? I think I'll be skipping the AS10.


Actually not. You can buy from the offical KZ Store. Which i bought from. They send a pair with lip nozzle ones. Actually there arent any significant difference but better grip for the tips


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> Some thread pages ago, I ranted about the ever-changing nature of KZ regarding plug systems on cables. There was the now called A-type, used by ZS3,4,5,6,A. Then, the B-type, by the ZST, ED12, ES4, AS10, BA10 and some more. I'm not even talking about some 2-pin cables with 0,78mm pins that were sent with some 0.75mm earphones...  If we look way behind, the KZ IE80 used the... Sennheiser plug (of course it did, it was a copy)! And now - the protruded female jack in the ZSN!
> So, the answer is... yes and no. Any 2-pin 0.75mm will work with the ZSN but will hang out awkwardly instead of being snuggly connected to the shell. Until KZ makes a ZSN compatible BT module...
> I don't believe other brands, like TRN, will make something like that. BT modules by TRN seem to be better than those of KZ, but the plugs on offer are different.
> 
> TLDR: The main difference here is that prior KZ designs regarding the female jacks were recessed in the shells, but ZSN's protruded, so every 0.75 mm plug will fit but will become a huge connection!



While I do appreciate the evolution and improvements of KZ IEMs as well as the cables, I am annoyed by the many different plug types as well.

Apple is notorious for using ever changing plugs as a revenue source.

How about KZ just switch to mmcx? Then there won’t be any more need for proprietary cables.

Oh well, what can you do?


----------



## stryed (Nov 8, 2018)

Tunaa said:


> Actually not. You can buy from the offical KZ Store. Which i bought from. They send a pair with lip nozzle ones. Actually there arent any significant difference but better grip for the tips



Good to know, thank you. For me, the lips make a huge difference because if i tip roll, 90% of them will end up stuck in my ears and it feels terrible especially when that happens as soon as I arrive at work.  Tenmark widebore tips work ok though...occasionally lose one in my ear.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> While I do appreciate the evolution and improvements of KZ IEMs as well as the cables, I am annoyed by the many different plug types as well.
> 
> Apple is notorious for using ever changing plugs as a revenue source.
> 
> ...



2-pins aren't proprietary though? Its either 2-pins or MMCX, not exactly a mountain of selection. I would've like them to go 0.78mm, but it seems even qdc goes 0.75mm for some reason on their mid and high-end IEMs, causing some users having to jam their own custom cables through the sockets and making it loose for the stock ones. Not much of a loss with a 20 bux KZ, but with a usd$1.3k 8sh or even Gemini, it really makes you think. At least with 2 pins, you can switch out the polarity if you need to test if the wiring is whacked out (qdc curiously have the polarity reversed for their IEMs compared to other makers, which is also weird).

there were some discussion on a thread here (can't remember which) that makers are switching to 2-pins since its more robust than MMCX (their words). Ken from CA said MMCX can be even more robust, its just that the work to make the connectors be more durable is costly (their Litz cables are brilliant, even if sockets on the IEMs themselves are sometimes wonky).


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> 2-pins aren't proprietary though? Its either 2-pins or MMCX, not exactly a mountain of selection. I would've like them to go 0.78mm, but it seems even qdc goes 0.75mm for some reason on their mid and high-end IEMs, causing some users having to jam their own custom cables through the sockets and making it loose for the stock ones. Not much of a loss with a 20 bux KZ, but with a usd$1.3k 8sh or even Gemini, it really makes you think. At least with 2 pins, you can switch out the polarity if you need to test if the wiring is whacked out (qdc curiously have the polarity reversed for their IEMs compared to other makers, which is also weird).
> 
> there were some discussion on a thread here (can't remember which) that makers are switching to 2-pins since its more robust than MMCX (their words). Ken from CA said MMCX can be even more robust, its just that the work to make the connectors be more durable is costly (their Litz cables are brilliant, even if sockets on the IEMs themselves are sometimes wonky).



I’m taking about 2 pins that are tweaked in such a way to make them proprietary. Sure, the physical distance between the pins as well as the diameter of the pins may be considered standard, but I’m referring to the plastic part of the plug itself.

Such as the shoulder around the connector being different on the KZ type A vs type B, now the way this new ZSN cable is recesssed.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> I’m taking about 2 pins that are tweaked in such a way to make them proprietary. Sure, the physical distance between the pins as well as the diameter of the pins may be considered standard, but I’m referring to the plastic part of the plug itself.
> 
> Such as the shoulder around the connector being different on the KZ type A vs type B, now the way this new ZSN cable is recesssed.



Ah, I get you. I personally just get the type A cable for ease of transition, those bends just spell trouble if you wanna change around. Or get the new TRN cable (they also helpfully specify even 0.75mm and 0.78mm pins, which is nice)


----------



## TheVortex

What is the current recommended bluetooth adapter recommended for KZ's?

I was looking at the newish KZ adapter with the type B connector for my AS10 or ZS10.


----------



## 1clearhead

antdroid said:


> Any 2-pin will work. It’ll just stick out further than normal. Pins will still go all the way in, but it’ll look a little weird.
> 
> I had this same issue with my Unique Melody IEM which has the same style connector as ZSN.


Hopefully, KZ will make one that will suit the ZSN model. ...Fingers crossed!


----------



## fluteloop

TheVortex said:


> What is the current recommended bluetooth adapter recommended for KZ's?
> 
> I was looking at the newish KZ adapter with the type B connector for my AS10 or ZS10.



was about to ask the same thing..


also, that TRn cable with Shares of Silver. looks badass.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

WOW! Hype train is real. Got my ZSN today, and I am in love. 

Bass is fast and tight will good detail. Outstanding bass quality. Mids all up in your face with good vocal presence. Upper mids and treble are bright and a bit hairy. Very aggressive imo. No sibilance to my ears. Stage is small, but not to small. Things are not cluttered or congested. Fit is not as good for me as ZST. These nozzles are longer. Need to tip roll preferably softer tips. Listened with stock tips which are too hard. Weight is fine. Build quality is great. Price is effing ridiculous ($17). Very energetic and fun signature.  

Wife said that every new phone that comes in means an old one must go. ZST is going to work to live as an emergency back of pair.


----------



## fluteloop

Audiostart said:


> There are 2 types of foam tips, with rubber insert and without. Guess you got without. I got a pair of T400 with rubber tube inside, no problems with ED16. Still prefer tips from Rock Zircon though.




zircon tips are great. I took them out of the box and gave the phones to my sister.


----------



## maxxevv

Zerohour88 said:


> Ah, I get you. I personally just get the type A cable for ease of transition, those bends just spell trouble if you wanna change around. Or get the new TRN cable (they also helpfully specify even 0.75mm and 0.78mm pins, which is nice)




These are excellent cables.  I bought a pair them 2 pins and MMCX for my Tin T2.   

The stock cables on the KZ AS10 measured 0.7~0.9 Ohms, the stock cables that came with the T2 measured very similarly. These cables measured a very consistent 0.3~0.4 Ohm for both pieces I had across all 4 pins of each.  You can find them for under US$8/-  on the Aliexpress sale, very good value in my opinion. 

But because they are 8-core, they can feel a little cumbersome and perhaps "short" when moving about.  

As for sonic differences, I can't say with consistency but maybe that wee bit louder when first connected and compared for my AS10.  As for those superlative stories of bass / mids / treble differences, its not an obvious enough difference for my ears to say that they actually exist. YMMV but the volume differences were real to my ears at least.


----------



## 1clearhead

BadReligionPunk said:


> WOW! Hype train is real. Got my ZSN today, and I am in love.
> 
> Bass is fast and tight will good detail. Outstanding bass quality. Mids all up in your face with good vocal presence. Upper mids and treble are bright and a bit hairy. Very aggressive imo. No sibilance to my ears. *Stage is small, but not to small.* Things are not cluttered or congested. Fit is not as good for me as ZST. These nozzles are longer. Need to tip roll preferably softer tips. Listened with stock tips which are too hard. Weight is fine. Build quality is great. Price is effing ridiculous ($17). Very energetic and fun signature.
> 
> Wife said that every new phone that comes in means an old one must go. ZST is going to work to live as an emergency back of pair.


Give them more time, they'll definitely open up!
I usually do a 100 hour check with all my earphones and my ZSN definitely opened up with a larger-than-life soundstage and sounds eerily like some of my full-size headphones!


----------



## voicemaster

maxdurak said:


> Hello, everyone. Really looking forward to try ZSN, but is there any bluetooth adapter for it? Judging by the pictures its connector is rounded on both sides unlike any other KZ 2-pin connector, or am i wrong?


I am using TRN bt3 2 pin bluetooth cable with no issue so far.


----------



## voicemaster

TheVortex said:


> What is the current recommended bluetooth adapter recommended for KZ's?
> 
> I was looking at the newish KZ adapter with the type B connector for my AS10 or ZS10.



TRN bt3 works fine for me.


----------



## scottySK

maxxevv said:


> These are excellent cables.  I bought a pair them 2 pins and MMCX for my Tin T2.
> 
> The stock cables on the KZ AS10 measured 0.7~0.9 Ohms, the stock cables that came with the T2 measured very similarly. These cables measured a very consistent 0.3~0.4 Ohm for both pieces I had across all 4 pins of each.  You can find them for under US$8/-  on the Aliexpress sale, very good value in my opinion.
> 
> ...


These are my favourite cables


----------



## 1clearhead

rayliam80 said:


> The ZSN arrived today. It took less than 10 days to arrive from Gearbest. I'm happy that they have pretty much the same shell shape as the ZST which fits my ears really well. I think they look better in person than most of the pics that are out there. I really like them with Auvio tips but the included Starline tips aren't bad either, I'm just getting a better fit is all. These are more comfortable for me compared to my personal current KZ favorite, the ZS10. Lots has already been said on this thread about the SQ of the ZSN. For me, it's rather bright, punchy with lots of clarity and details and also, @DocHoliday I agree with your sentiments about these forever retiring the ZST - it's a major step up.
> 
> I'll compare the ZSN to the ZSA first by using my Liquid Spark in low gain mode and both with Auvio tips. I find the ZSA to be less energetic and less sensitive compared to the ZSN. The timbre is very close, with maybe a slight edge to the ZSN. Soundstage and instrument separation sounds similar too but I do wonder if the ZSN's brightness is deceiving me a little bit so I'm just going to say they are even.
> 
> When plugging the ZSN into iEmatch port of my iFi Nano BL, the brightness goes down significantly and becomes less fatiguing similar to what I find with the ZS6. The ZSN becomes a more enjoyable IEM in this particular setup. The ZSA sounds more even with relatively no change in its sound signature between a typical amp (Liquid Spark) and the iEmatch port. If I didn't have iEmatch, I'd would choose the ZSA. If I had iEmatch, I'd go with the ZSN. If you happen to *already* own an iEmatch adapter or have an iFi device with it, I think for $15 - $20 USD these would be pretty good for a beater IEM.


I noticed the Auvio ear tips also works well with the Cyan/Black and Black ZSN's balancing out the thicker low MID's and bass due to the different cable supplied to these two other models.
Good combination!


----------



## vegetaleb

I think I am gonna get a ZS4 for this 11.11
I have a coupon of 2$ on anything in AE above 10$ as well as another one of 1$, if the ZS4 are at 13.5$ for the mic version, it means I will only pay 10.5$?
Sweet memories of KZ iems when they used to cost 10ish $


----------



## nxnje

rayliam80 said:


> The ZSN arrived today. It took less than 10 days to arrive from Gearbest. I'm happy that they have pretty much the same shell shape as the ZST which fits my ears really well. I think they look better in person than most of the pics that are out there. I really like them with Auvio tips but the included Starline tips aren't bad either, I'm just getting a better fit is all. These are more comfortable for me compared to my personal current KZ favorite, the ZS10. Lots has already been said on this thread about the SQ of the ZSN. For me, it's rather bright, punchy with lots of clarity and details and also, @DocHoliday I agree with your sentiments about these forever retiring the ZST - it's a major step up.
> 
> I'll compare the ZSN to the ZSA first by using my Liquid Spark in low gain mode and both with Auvio tips. I find the ZSA to be less energetic and less sensitive compared to the ZSN. The timbre is very close, with maybe a slight edge to the ZSN. Soundstage and instrument separation sounds similar too but I do wonder if the ZSN's brightness is deceiving me a little bit so I'm just going to say they are even.
> 
> When plugging the ZSN into iEmatch port of my iFi Nano BL, the brightness goes down significantly and becomes less fatiguing similar to what I find with the ZS6. The ZSN becomes a more enjoyable IEM in this particular setup. The ZSA sounds more even with relatively no change in its sound signature between a typical amp (Liquid Spark) and the iEmatch port. If I didn't have iEmatch, I'd would choose the ZSA. If I had iEmatch, I'd go with the ZSN. If you happen to *already* own an iEmatch adapter or have an iFi device with it, I think for $15 - $20 USD these would be pretty good for a beater IEM.



If you had to compare the ZSA and the ZSN, with a simple cheap DAP, how do you compare these things? :
- lows: sub bass and bass
- mids
- treble: sibilance, detail and extension
- soundstage

Every time i read reviews there are always different ways to describe and everytime i read about ZSA vs something else it seems like the ZSA isn't as engaging as ZSN, ED16 and others.


----------



## richario (Nov 9, 2018)

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster! I pretty much only use Bluetooth with my KZ's, my current favourite set-up is the AS10 with the Pizen Bluetooth cable (the copper cable I have 3 of.) I started with KZ's original units (as on the ZS5v1 here), which are ok for music but have latency issues and only 2 hour battery at most. I then tried the TRN BT3 Apt-X cable (on the TRN V20's) which is definitely a good unit, better sound quality, and you can watch video. Claimed 8 hour battery life, I'm not sure but it would get close.  However I dislike the neckband, and feel this struggles amp wise to push the ZS5 and ZS10. My favourite is the Pizen unit (on the other 3.) I feel it has a punchier sound and pushes the power hungry items a bit better. Battery life for these is 5 hours, they use the same chip as the TRN BT3, and I love the way they pair with the AS10 in particular!

PIZEN TJBT65 aptx  Wireless Bluetooth cooper cable For IE80 SE215 SE535 SE846/  zs5 zs6 ZST ZS10 ES4/ QKZ/TRN earphone cable
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cM1bxibB

Edit: no idea how to add photos from mobile, I've set the picture I'm referring to as my avatar.


----------



## cacio

richario said:


> Hi, long time lurker, first time poster! I pretty much only use Bluetooth with my KZ's, my current favourite set-up is the AS10 with the Pizen Bluetooth cable (the copper cable I have 3 of.) I started with KZ's original units (as on the ZS5v1 here), which are ok for music but have latency issues and only 2 hour battery at most. I then tried the TRN BT3 Apt-X cable (on the TRN V20's) which is definitely a good unit, better sound quality, and you can watch video. Claimed 8 hour battery life, I'm not sure but it would get close.  However I dislike the neckband, and feel this struggles amp wise to push the ZS5 and ZS10. My favourite is the Pizen unit (on the other 3.) I feel it has a punchier sound and pushes the power hungry items a bit better. Battery life for these is 5 hours, they use the same chip as the TRN BT3, and I love the way they pair with the AS10 in particular!
> 
> PIZEN TJBT65 aptx  Wireless Bluetooth cooper cable For IE80 SE215 SE535 SE846/  zs5 zs6 ZST ZS10 ES4/ QKZ/TRN earphone cable
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cM1bxibB
> ...




i would personally wait till the first "bluetooth cables" show up with the new qualcomm SoC (QCC5100) which was announced in the beginning of 2018. it should offer much better efficiency over the current CSR SoCs.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

nxnje said:


> If you had to compare the ZSA and the ZSN, with a simple cheap DAP, how do you compare these things? :
> - lows: sub bass and bass
> - mids
> - treble: sibilance, detail and extension
> ...



Granted I have about an hour on the ZSN, and I have not used ZSA in awhile, and am only going by memory, I would say that not only does ZSN replace the need for ZST, but replaces ZSA also. ZSN bass is better controlled, better textured and a bit faster. ZSA might have more subbass and midbass quantity, but its also a bit more boomy and sloppy imo. ZSN mids are a lot more forward then ZSA. ZSA is pretty recessed. Both iems treble are pretty identical from memory, with ZSA possibly being a lil bit smoother. Again its from old age memory I tell you this so take it with a grain of salt. To me ZSN is also more comfortable. ZSA nozzles are long. Build on both are fantastic. I got my ZSA for $12, and ZSN for $17. Incredible what the hobby is coming too.


----------



## nxnje

BadReligionPunk said:


> Granted I have about an hour on the ZSN, and I have not used ZSA in awhile, and am only going by memory, I would say that not only does ZSN replace the need for ZST, but replaces ZSA also. ZSN bass is better controlled, better textured and a bit faster. ZSA might have more subbass and midbass quantity, but its also a bit more boomy and sloppy imo. ZSN mids are a lot more forward then ZSA. ZSA is pretty recessed. Both iems treble are pretty identical from memory, with ZSA possibly being a lil bit smoother. Again its from old age memory I tell you this so take it with a grain of salt. To me ZSN is also more comfortable. ZSA nozzles are long. Build on both are fantastic. I got my ZSA for $12, and ZSN for $17. Incredible what the hobby is coming too.



Thanks a lot.
I'm actually searching for a replacement as i've returned my ZS6 for the bad feels i had got in my right ear.
Now i'm here and there searching for a good iem around 10-15.


----------



## vegetaleb

It's too calm here at 48h of the 11.11


----------



## Mellowship

vegetaleb said:


> It's too calm here at 48h of the 11.11


Everyone on AE... Lol
Or... Everyone realised the marketing manouvre of rising the prices slightly for several weeks and then making a sale for some cents less than what the seller would usually sell the product?


----------



## Audiostart

Other than chi fi IEM's and earbuds, very few with real discounts, can't see much on AliExpress or gearbest. I can find home cheaper with 2 years warranty when it comes to electronics, maybe in Asia is different.


----------



## hakuzen

maxxevv said:


> These are excellent cables.  I bought a pair them 2 pins and MMCX for my Tin T2.
> 
> The stock cables on the KZ AS10 measured 0.7~0.9 Ohms, the stock cables that came with the T2 measured very similarly. These cables measured a very consistent 0.3~0.4 Ohm for both pieces I had across all 4 pins of each.  You can find them for under US$8/-  on the Aliexpress sale, very good value in my opinion.
> 
> ...


can you confirm my measurements of dc resistance of new trn 8 cores cable, please?
i measured this:
left: 0.45  right: 0.22  groundL: 0.14  groundR: 0.27 Ω. (single end yellow)
left+: 0.42  right+: 0.22  left-: 0.29  right-: 0.15 Ω (2.5mm balanced black)
as you can see, there is a big difference (0.3Ω) between left and groundL/right-.
the reason should be obvious: they have soldered 1 only core for left in the jack, while 3 cores for groundL/right-, instead of 2 cores/signal, for soldering comfort causes probably.
i want you confirm this is a rule, and not an exception (i got 2 different cables, and both were wrong soldered).


----------



## toddy0191

Might as well board the hype train....

Just received these sexy little mofos!  Love the way they and the cable look.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 9, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> It's too calm here at 48h of the 11.11


I am actually good now.  Had a big list,  went through and wittled it down to 12 items. Within the last 2 weeks I have got ZSN,  RY4S UE,  Audio Technica c200is, and all 3 are top notch, so I think I'm not going to order those items now.   Besides. It just got like real cold here.  That means headphone weather lol


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> That means headphone weather lol



Yes, I have been enjoying my headphones again the past few weeks and have added a couple to the list.


----------



## TLDRonin

hakuzen said:


> can you confirm my measurements of dc resistance of new trn 8 cores cable, please?
> i measured this:
> left: 0.45  right: 0.22  groundL: 0.14  groundR: 0.27 Ω. (single end yellow)
> left+: 0.42  right+: 0.22  left-: 0.29  right-: 0.15 Ω (2.5mm balanced black)
> ...


That sounds pretty bad... Its probably not audible but that would bug me knowing they botched the wiring


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 9, 2018)

Has anyone here made a list of their favorite KZ's from #1 to... whatever last number they have?

I'm not so sure I like my ED16's. I can't get a good seal and with the new TRN cable they sound okay, but I think my ES4 with the KZ 8 core cable maybe sounds better?

Someone suggested using tri-flanges on the ED16 but the ones I bought aren't stretchable over the IEM. Like most of those tips...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TLDRonin said:


> That sounds pretty bad... Its probably not audible but that would bug me knowing they botched the wiring


I've lost trust in TRN's cable offering and headphone offerings from their bad cable soldering. I think my KZ 8 core silver braided cable sounds much better... then TRN's 8 core copper badly soldered cables.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone here made a list of their favorite KZ's from #1 to... whatever last number they have?
> 
> I'm not so sure I like my ED16's. I can't get a good seal and with the new TRN cable they sound okay, but I think my ES4 with the KZ 8 core cable maybe sounds better?
> 
> Someone suggested using tri-flanges on the ED16 but the ones I bought aren't stretchable over the IEM. Like most of those tips...



I am using Spinfits with my ED16.  That is always my last resort because they are more expensive than others... about $4 or $5 a pair from Aliexpress.

here is my list of KZs in alphabetical order

KZ ATR
KZ ED9 - black - with dull (not the shiny) filter
KZ ED16 - translucent black - with ZS6 copper braid cable
KZ ZS6 - green
KZ ZS10 - translucent red - TRN silver replacement cable
KZ ZSN - purple/silver  
KZ ZSR - translucent green
KZ ZST - carbon-TRN black replacement cable

I would have a difficult time ranking them as I like them all.  If I had to pick my least favorite it would be the ZST.  At the moment my favorite would probably be the ED16, BUT the ZSN only arrived yesterday and I have had no time with it yet... only listened to a couple of songs to set  volume level for burn in.  I have been enjoying some new buds this week and was not quite ready to stop listening to those. 

I am NOT using the original rubbery cables on any of my KZs that have removable cables.  It is a matter of comfort for me... I don't enjoy sprongy cables.


----------



## Twski

toddy0191 said:


> Might as well board the hype train....
> 
> Just received these sexy little mofos!  Love the way they and the cable look.



Purple is the only color of these that comes with this nicer brighter cable, right? Other colors seem to come with a darker (ES4 like) cable, with black L plug and mid splitter, instead of clear.


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone here made a list of their favorite KZ's from #1 to... whatever last number they have?
> 
> I'm not so sure I like my ED16's. I can't get a good seal and with the new TRN cable they sound okay, but I think my ES4 with the KZ 8 core cable maybe sounds better?
> 
> Someone suggested using tri-flanges on the ED16 but the ones I bought aren't stretchable over the IEM. Like most of those tips...


stuffed marshmallow foams (no silicone tube inside) into stock tips (starlines) to get a better seal, successfully. it was easy, just trimming the foams a bit to get desired length and pushing them into the silicone tips.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've lost trust in TRN's cable offering and headphone offerings from their bad cable soldering. I think my KZ 8 core silver braided cable sounds much better... then TRN's 8 core copper badly soldered cables.


it's a pity they haven't soldered the cores like they should. if this is a rule (i'm still waiting for others to confirm theirs are soldered same way), it's a true pity. because they could be the best cable <$10. look is superb, and conductivity, way better than any other <$10 cable.


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> it's a pity they haven't soldered the cores like they should. if this is a rule (i'm still waiting for others to confirm theirs are soldered same way), it's a true pity. because they could be the best cable <$10. look is superb, and conductivity, way better than any other <$10 cable.



I’ll check mine when they arrive (due any day).

If they are wired like yours (with the single ground), I’ll just replace the 3.5mm plug. A small price to pay for the best $7 cable available!

Has anyone measured the KZ 8-core version yet?


----------



## kubin2984

Just received pair of KZ ZSN. I don't know why KZ sent me 2 cable. One is original cable (with mic) of KZ ZSN, and one is the KZ 8-core version cable .


----------



## Twski

kubin2984 said:


> Just received pair of KZ ZSN. I don't know why KZ sent me 2 cable. One is original cable (with mic) of KZ ZSN, and one is the KZ 8-core version cable .



Saw many people on AliExpress thanking for a "gift" cable. I asked the seller yesterday if they are still giving they and he replied negatively :/

I'm wanting to get a black one, but I like the purple's cable way better. Can't decide :X
Give us your impressions once you give them a go!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

hakuzen said:


> stuffed marshmallow foams (no silicone tube inside) into stock tips (starlines) to get a better seal, successfully. it was easy, just trimming the foams a bit to get desired length and pushing them into the silicone tips.
> 
> 
> it's a pity they haven't soldered the cores like they should. if this is a rule (i'm still waiting for others to confirm theirs are soldered same way), it's a true pity. because they could be the best cable <$10. look is superb, and conductivity, way better than any other <$10 cable.



What would be the problem? Also I have been using the trn 8 cores for the past couple of weeks. How do you check them? I have no qualms testing mine and posting results here.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone here made a list of their favorite KZ's from #1 to... whatever last number they have?
> 
> I'm not so sure I like my ED16's. I can't get a good seal and with the new TRN cable they sound okay, but I think my ES4 with the KZ 8 core cable maybe sounds better?
> 
> Someone suggested using tri-flanges on the ED16 but the ones I bought aren't stretchable over the IEM. Like most of those tips...




I have
KZ ZST 
KZ ZS10 
KZ ES4 
KZ ZS3 
KZ EDR1 
KZ EDR2 
KZ ED4
KZ ED7
KZ ED8S
KZ ED9
KZ ZSA
KZ ZSN

I would rate them ZSN #1, ED9 #2, ES4 #3 ZS10 #4 EDR1 #5


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> I’ll check mine when they arrive (due any day).
> 
> If they are wired like yours (with the single ground), I’ll just replace the 3.5mm plug. A small price to pay for the best $7 cable available!
> 
> Has anyone measured the KZ 8-core version yet?


i ordered it and it's in transit now. will measure it as soon as it arrives.

about trn 8c cable, i don't know what they've done, now.
2 cores should be used for each signal. 
in the case of single TRS jack, it seems that only 1 core is used for left signal, and 3 cores used for left ground. so you'd have to re-solder not only into the jack, but also into the 2pins plug.
but in the case of TRRS, it's left+ signal vs right- signal! they are in different groups (4 cores to left driver, 4 cores to right driver). so i'm puzzled. i don't know what's happening then.


----------



## hakuzen

BadReligionPunk said:


> What would be the problem? Also I have been using the trn 8 cores for the past couple of weeks. How do you check them? I have no qualms testing mine and posting results here.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2518#post-14587913

the imbalance of 0.3ohms shouldn't be noticeable (less than 1dB, even less than 0.5dB). but i'd prefer not having 3x resistance in one signal respect the other one, specially in balanced signals. perfectionism?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> Besides. It just got like real cold here.  That means headphone weather lol


Poor guy has to suffer through headphone weather.;( I will be praying for you in hopes that you will have iems in your ears again soon.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> I am using Spinfits with my ED16.  That is always my last resort because they are more expensive than others... about $4 or $5 a pair from Aliexpress..


I wasn't getting a seal with my Zircon tips and ED16 so I went looking for the yellow Spinfits I've never used. I think I found them. They fit perfectly on the ed16! And, the sound is more technical at my first glance than the Zircon's. Cool. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## RolledOff

BadReligionPunk said:


> WOW! Hype train is real. Got my ZSN today, and I am in love.
> 
> Bass is fast and tight will good detail. Outstanding bass quality. Mids all up in your face with good vocal presence. Upper mids and treble are bright and a bit hairy. Very aggressive imo. No sibilance to my ears. Stage is small, but not to small. Things are not cluttered or congested. Fit is not as good for me as ZST. These nozzles are longer. Need to tip roll preferably softer tips. Listened with stock tips which are too hard. Weight is fine. Build quality is great. Price is effing ridiculous ($17). Very energetic and fun signature.
> 
> Wife said that every new phone that comes in means an old one must go. ZST is going to work to live as an emergency back of pair.


do you have ZSR to compare ZSN to?
if ZSN and ZSR have same signature, i will retire my ZSR


----------



## voicemaster

RolledOff said:


> do you have ZSR to compare ZSN to?
> if ZSN and ZSR have same signature, i will retire my ZSR



ZSN is far better than ZSR.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 10, 2018)

I've spent the last three hours listening to several of my metal KZ's (ZS6, BA10, ZSA, ED8, ED9 & ED10) and I can tell you that all of them sound fantastic. I really should have pulled out the ED3 "Perfection" and HDS3 as well. 

I was mostly surprised at how well the ED10 held up (forward treble, forward midrange with tight, deep and well-judged bass). I do hope that KZ revisits the ED10 sound signature because it is very engaging. A new KZ with a further refined ED10 sound signature, CNC aluminum housing and detachable cables would certainly grab my attention.




 



 
Again, props to Igor for the graph.


One of the tracks that I sampled with all of the aforementioned IEMs is.......




Every one of them handled the chimes (recurring @ 38 seconds) with differing degrees of sparkle with the ED8 displaying the least amount of shimmer and the ZS6 displaying the most. Each IEM has its own strengths but in general the metal housings contribute to a "clean" and detail-oriented presentation.......and yes that includes the ED8's presentation with its deep reaching bass. 

Plastic housings would have ruined the ED8 sound signature but those metal alloy housings lend to their clarity. They were shipped with wide-bore Whirlwind eartips. The combination of wide-bore eartips and metal housings give them both air and a good sense of depth for a relatively warm sound signature . I like them. Alot.

The ED9 and ED10 rendered 'Til Tuesday's "Coming Up Close" with a great sense of presence and air.




Really looking forward to the up and coming ZS7. Let's hope KZ includes their new silver & copper cable with the all metal ZS7.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> I am using Spinfits with my ED16.  That is always my last resort because they are more expensive than others... about $4 or $5 a pair from Aliexpress.
> 
> here is my list of KZs in alphabetical order
> 
> ...



May you update us, listening more with the ZSN, how do they compare with the ed16? 
Thanks a lot in advance.


----------



## dondonut

Can anyone tell me how the ZSN compare to the BQEYZ BQ3? I know it might be apples and pears as its different driver configs but was wondering if I will notice a clear difference SQ Wise? What about comfort? I can unfortunately not spend endless money on iems so it can't be hit or miss. I'm hoping to get something a bit more expensive with such a SQ that I won't have to upgrade anytime soon. But DAMN the ZSN design is cool!!


----------



## Silverstorm Nuce

KZ ES4 vs KZ ZSN, Which is more sibilant? Thanks


----------



## RolledOff

voicemaster said:


> ZSN is far better than ZSR.


yes I agree.... just 30 minutes ago receive my ZSN, damn it's fast shipping from china
no sibilance and it has smaller body than ZSR, better comfort using stock tips although the tube a bit long for my ear
I still prefer the bass on ZSA, but I may well retire the ZSA too for ZSN


----------



## Deveraux

ZSN vs ZS5 v1 anybody? I absolutely love the v1. Is it an upgrade?


If I have to get the ZSN. from where should I order ? Gearbest or Aliexpress? GB seems a tad cheaper.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

It's 11/11 in China! Go grab your new KZ's off Aliexpress! Which ones will you buy?

I will probably just grab a couple KZ Copper/Silver mix cables (A and B) Wait, I just bought B off Gearbest.


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> I've spent the last three hours listening to several of my metal KZ's (ZS6, BA10, ZSA, ED8, ED9 & ED10) and I can tell you that all of them sound fantastic. I really should have pulled out the ED3 "Perfection" and HDS3 as well.
> 
> I was mostly surprised at how well the ED10 held up (forward treble, forward midrange with tight, deep and well-judged bass). I do hope that KZ revisits the ED10 sound signature because it is very engaging. A new KZ with a further refined ED10 sound signature, CNC aluminum housing and detachable cables would certainly grab my attention.



I actually spent a couple hours with the ED10 last night. Was going through my box of iems to listen to some of my old favs like the Dubliz Enhanced, TFZ Series 5, Light T2, and a couple others. ED10 was the only one to remain in the ears for more than a song or two. It's been at the top of my KZ list for a long time, and for good reason. Love that thing and am still bummed it was discontinued.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Silverstorm Nuce said:


> KZ ES4 vs KZ ZSN, Which is more sibilant? Thanks


ZSN.  I wore ZSN for 6 hours straight yesterday at work.  First 3 hours listened to Jpop. Did run into some sibilance with some female vocals that were poorly mixed.  Next 3 hours were thrash,  death,  and black metal.  Nothing but goodness,  and I never got fatigued. 

ES4 is much warmer and has never even come close to sibilance. ES4 is nice. My only beef with it is it's bass is a bit sloppy.  Sounds good with bass heavy genres that I like,  but can't really pull off other genres to my satisfaction. ZSN kills everything I throw at it.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> I actually spent a couple hours with the ED10 last night. Was going through my box of iems to listen to some of my old favs like the Dubliz Enhanced, TFZ Series 5, Light T2, and a couple others. ED10 was the only one to remain in the ears for more than a song or two. It's been at the top of my KZ list for a long time, and for good reason. Love that thing and am still bummed it was discontinued.



These posts about the ED10 caused me to search for it but I had no luck.  I was wondering though if it is the same as the QKZ DM7 which we do have in the house.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ound-quality-Music-headphones/2019520112.html


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> These posts about the ED10 caused me to search for it but I had no luck.  I was wondering though if it is the same as the QKZ DM7 which we do have in the house.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ound-quality-Music-headphones/2019520112.html



I bought the DM7 when it first came out hoping it would be the same. Imo it kinda sucks. Average generic bassy earphone. Nowhere close to the ED10. Gave mine away. Looked good though and the cable is a major improvement over the ED10s.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> I bought the DM7 when it first came out hoping it would be the same. Imo it kinda sucks. Average generic bassy earphone. Nowhere close to the ED10. Gave mine away. Looked good though and the cable is a major improvement over the ED10s.



Thanks for the info.  So now I still need to try to find the ED10.  I won't bother to listen to the DM7 that is here... not mine anyway.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 10, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> These posts about the ED10 caused me to search for it but I had no luck.  I was wondering though if it is the same as the QKZ DM7 which we do have in the house.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ound-quality-Music-headphones/2019520112.html



Probably the only way to obtain a pair is if someone who prefers a much different sound signature trades their ED10 for something more to their preference. I can't imagine trading mine but I do remember way back in 2015 that those with a preference for a warmer sound signature seemed to gravitate towards something like the ED3 "Acme" or ED8 (early metal KZ's). Incidentally, the first of the two links below will give you a good description of the ED10 and ED8.

https://thecontraptionist.blog/2016...-place-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-2/

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ed10-knowledge-zenith.22990/reviews#review-20081


Some of the first impressions of the ED8 started to trickle in in January of 2015.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-148#post-11204819

.......and here are some first impressions of the ED10 from Coil and a few others way back in September of 2015.



Spoiler






CoiL said:


> I would say ED9 with gold nozzles is bassier than ED10
> 
> 
> 
> ...





salawat said:


> Guys and Gals,
> 
> my ed10's arrived yesterday, and I've got to say, I am literally amazed by it's sound quality, like don't get me wrong, I've used good iem's before - some diy, some other chinese brands - vsonic, xiaomi, other KZ, QKZ, Mannhas, Moxpad, VJJC, havi and so on.
> 
> ...





CADCAM said:


> Listening to the ED10 playing some Providence & Starless by King Crimson and it's not too shabby...not too shabby at all. The bass is fantastic for a $8.50 headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...






For me, when KZ releases something that is very, very good I don't quibble or dilly-dally, I just pick up several pair because KZ tends to move on to new offerings fairly quickly. Once they're gone they're gone but trades are always possible. Last week I traded a fantastic set of Winintones (currently reissued as the RockJaw Alfa Genus) that went out of production long ago so it is possible to obtain something that's out of production. I originally bought three sets of the Winintones so I still have two remaining sets.



 

There is a good YouTube video on the Alfa Genus but the Winintone bass digs so much deeper than the Alfa Genus, probably down to 15hz.

Love this hobby!


----------



## eclein (Nov 10, 2018)

1) How can you tell difference between ZS5 V1 & V2? 
2) Hey what’s a good solid upgrade cable for them that fits the recessed socket well? A pin or B pin?


----------



## KainHighwind

I’m going to order a Tin audio T2, is there any Kz or other IEM that is better than T2 in your opinion?


----------



## Dobrescu George

KainHighwind said:


> I’m going to order a Tin audio T2, is there any Kz or other IEM that is better than T2 in your opinion?



Depends a lot what you're looking for, T2 is not perfect, but neither is anything else, KZ are far from perfect if you're looking for midrange, while T2 is not ideal if you're looking for a lot of bass  

T2 does soundstage really well, while KZ does value and detail really well, but AS10, which is the best from KZ so far, is a little V-shaped, so if you're searching for a lot of voice, it is not vocals-focused


----------



## KainHighwind

Dobrescu George said:


> Depends a lot what you're looking for, T2 is not perfect, but neither is anything else, KZ are far from perfect if you're looking for midrange, while T2 is not ideal if you're looking for a lot of bass
> 
> T2 does soundstage really well, while KZ does value and detail really well, but AS10, which is the best from KZ so far, is a little V-shaped, so if you're searching for a lot of voice, it is not vocals-focused


I listen to many kinds of music, mostly pop, I want a sound as natural as possible, vocal and instrument can be heard seperately, just that. T2 is about $27 USD, it drops a lot from normal price, is it a good deal.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I ordered a Type A and B Copper/Silver Mix KZ Cable, ED16 is A while ES4 is B. Was this a better idea than buying NICEHCK's copper only cable? A couple comments say this the Copper/Silver mix is even better than the silver plated cable.

NICEHCK: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ed-8-Core-High-Purity-Copper/32916162030.html

KZ: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Mixed-Cable-Use-For-SE846-KZ/32944500379.html


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

KZ ZSN is selling off the charts on Aliexpress! WOW!

People love beautiful looking models!


----------



## Slater (Nov 10, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> I've spent the last three hours listening to several of my metal KZ's (ZS6, BA10, ZSA, ED8, ED9 & ED10) and I can tell you that all of them sound fantastic. I really should have pulled out the ED3 "Perfection" and HDS3 as well.
> 
> I was mostly surprised at how well the ED10 held up (forward treble, forward midrange with tight, deep and well-judged bass). I do hope that KZ revisits the ED10 sound signature because it is very engaging. A new KZ with a further refined ED10 sound signature, CNC aluminum housing and detachable cables would certainly grab my attention.
> 
> ...




I definitely prefer metal housings over plastic. There is a definite difference in sound, in addition to the difference in quality.

I wonder if the designs like the ZSN are designed to be the best of both worlds? Lighter weight and more ergo housing, but with the metal rear cover tightening up the sound and unwanted reflections etc.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> I wonder if the designs like the ZSN are designed to be the best of both worlds? Lighter weight and more ergo housing, but with the metal rear cover tightening up the sound and unwanted reflections etc.


I think the metal backing is just to give the ZSN a nice looking ass. If you consider that the back...


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I definitely prefer metal housings over plastic. There is a definite difference in sound, in addition to the difference in quality.
> 
> I wonder if the designs like the ZSN are designed to be the best of both worlds? Lighter weight and more ergo housing, but with the metal rear cover tightening up the sound and unwanted reflections etc.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think the metal backing is just to give the ZSN a nice looking ass. If you consider that the back...



I thought the silver part  was meant to be cosmetic.  I almost was not going to get it because of that metal plate.... you all know I wanted a jewel like purple one that was pure bright translucent purple.  Without the silver plate, this would have been it!  In the end I had to get it though because everyone kept raving about the sound.  I hope to spend some quality time with mine tonight.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> These posts about the ED10 caused me to search for it but I had no luck.  I was wondering though if it is the same as the QKZ DM7 which we do have in the house.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ound-quality-Music-headphones/2019520112.html



It is not the same. even though the housing is similar. I have the QKZ. It wasnt horrible, but it was nothing special. Very mediocre.


----------



## TechnoidFR

hakuzen said:


> yes, kz uses to listen to masses, reviews and forums. but they do at their own way.
> we criticized the fake (supposedly) drivers in zs5 v1, and lack of crossover -> KZ changed the position of the buried BA, and added crossover (even deployed an entire line to show the crossover clearly: ES4, ZS10, AS10, which IMO is weird)
> we discussed about the treble peak of ZS6/ZS5 v2 (due to the new position of the BA) -> all KZ models since then have big treble roll-off (which IMO is a pity).
> some criticized lack of bass in ZS6/ZS5 v2 -> all KZ models since then have more bumped bass at different levels (which IMO, together with above change, make KZs too dark, less airy).
> ...



Interesting to know that.

I think they must launched a lot of iem for marketing and stay always front of the scene. We speak Everytime of kz with new iem and comparison. 


I have zsn. Very near of zst but better speed and detail, more brilliant. Same sub bass and similar scene . I enjoy that because zst beginning "old" and have not enough detail.


----------



## hakuzen

TechnoidFR said:


> Interesting to know that.
> 
> I think they must launched a lot of iem for marketing and stay always front of the scene. We speak Everytime of kz with new iem and comparison.
> 
> ...


yea, i ended getting some zsn. not received them yet.


----------



## khighly

I have obtained pink ZSN's.


----------



## puppyfi

khighly said:


> I have obtained pink ZSN's.



Considering between AS10 or ZSN for this 11.11 buy.
Will AS10 be a definite upgrade, whereas ZSN may be a sidegrade?
I have ZS3, ZSR and ES4. They are all musical to my ears and I am happy with all 3.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> In the end I had to get it though because everyone kept raving about the sound.  I hope to spend some quality time with mine tonight.


Are you saying people have been saying that the different ZSN's have different sound characteristics due to the metal nozzle, wire or other issues?


----------



## basshead11

puppyfi said:


> Considering between AS10 or ZSN for this 11.11 buy.
> Will AS10 be a definite upgrade, whereas ZSN may be a sidegrade?
> I have ZS3, ZSR and ES4. They are all musical to my ears and I am happy with all 3.


thats 100% right


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

The KZ ZSN in Black Black is the only headphone/IEM I'm buying this 11/11. I hope it lives up to its looks.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you saying people have been saying that the different ZSN's have different sound characteristics due to the metal nozzle, wire or other issues?



No.  I said I had decided not to get it but because everyone was saying such great things about it that I finally gave in and had to get it.  I have not heard of any issues.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Ended up caving and buying fukubukuro and a second ZSN. Got the silver/purple one. Interested in the sound difference, and having a backup to an IEM that covers all the bases for me.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought the silver part  was meant to be cosmetic.  I almost was not going to get it because of that metal plate.... you all know I wanted a jewel like purple one that was pure bright translucent purple.  Without the silver plate, this would have been it!  In the end I had to get it though because everyone kept raving about the sound.  I hope to spend some quality time with mine tonight.



It would be easy to make a purple back.

You could use a piece of plexiglass and paint the inside with transparent purple paint. Or you could get a sheet of transparent purple acrylic and do it that way.

Just trace the existing back and cut it out. Even the vent holes could be matched up perfectly.


----------



## jwong

I don't even like iems (my ear canals are irritated easily), and yet I've ordered the ZSN and the D4 and am tempted to grab the fukubukuro too. The power of sales and spending too much time on head-fi!


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> I wonder if the designs like the ZSN are designed to be the best of both worlds? Lighter weight and more ergo housing, but with the metal rear cover tightening up the sound and unwanted reflections etc.



We can only hope that this was the reason for the design choice because, imho, metal housings keep the presentation as clean as possible.  



khighly said:


> I have obtained pink ZSN's.



Alright young lady.......out with it.

jk,  jk

What's good and what's not so good about them? 

I think I'll go for the cyan/black (black cables would look great if KZ ever releases them) and even the silver/pink because it's a good looking IEM in both colors.

Curious about the differences you hear vs your AS10.


----------



## carltonh

Well for 11.11, I've ordered a backup ZS10, an AS10, and a ZSN. I guess my main curiosity is how the ZSN will compare to the Uiisii CM5 for best dual hybrid deal. All I'm certain is that the KZ thread tends to overhype, and I'm glad I never bought the ZST, ZS5, or ZS6. Even the ES3, ZS4, and ES4 can be fatiguing after a long listening session. ZS10 is sort of unbeatable if you get a good deep fit with best tips for your own ears that blocks the ports and makes it good at deep bass. I don't expect the AS10 to beat it, but maybe an easier fit for a great sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> It would be easy to make a purple back.
> 
> You could use a piece of plexiglass and paint the inside with transparent purple paint. Or you could get a sheet of transparent purple acrylic and do it that way.
> 
> Just trace the existing back and cut it out. Even the vent holes could be matched up perfectly.



I should have seen this coming:}  You go first!


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I should have seen this coming:}  You go first!



I’ll check it out when mine arrives and see how easy it would be.

I don’t particularly like the silver. I really wanted the black/black. I only got the silver/purple because of the sound difference from the better cable.

If I don’t make a new back plate, I may just paint it black or maybe polish it. We’ll see.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 11, 2018)

Slater said:


> I only got the silver/purple because of the sound difference from the better cable.



Are you sure it is a better cable? I just thought it was a color difference to complement the different colors of the iems.

I don't mind the silver back plate... looks nice with the purple.  It is just that the plastic part is exactly the same color that I thought that other model was going to be.. if it ever is going to be.  Not sure what happened to that.  I will be keeping mine as they are but I can see why you might like it to be black..that would look good too.

The ZSN has been in my ears for around 5 hours now... can't stop... but I need to go to bed before it gets light!  this happens too often when my husband is working nights.   It it has been dark for 12 hours already.. sun setting before 4:30 now.

Whatever people have said about these is true! Very comfortable.. love the longer nozzles.. did not have to use spinfits.  I actually like the stock tips... whatever they are... they are NOT Starlines... at least mine are not.  Sounding great.


----------



## voicemaster

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure it is a better cable? I just thought it was a color difference to complement the different colors of the iems.
> 
> I don't mind the silver... looks nice with the purple.  It is just that the plastic part is exactly the same color that I thought that other model was going to be.. if it ever is going to be.  Not sure what happened to that.
> 
> ...



Yes, I always go back to ZSN for some unknown reason. I just love the sound of it.


----------



## voicemaster

Call me crazy but I think ZSN has similar sound presentation as my Sony MDR Z7. Just A/Bed it and they both sound pretty similar with Z7 having a bit more forward in mid and has more body in vocal while ZSN has thinner vocal, but it somehow makes vocal seems more detail. Soundstage, Z7 is bigger but not by much which is insane for an IEM. The bass, ZSN actually has more body than Z7 with the same impact on both. Whoever does the tuning for ZSN is insanely good IMHO.


----------



## toddy0191 (Nov 11, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> Yes, I always go back to ZSN for some unknown reason. I just love the sound of it.



Have to agree with the hype so far.

I think the bass on the ZSNs is outstanding for the price and what gives them the initial wow factor. It's not overemphasized, but goes as low as 20hz without any roll off (using "the ultimate headphone test" site) Add to that its speed and timbre and it has a very pleasing quality with zero muddiness.

The above applies to the lower mids too which are clearly separate from the bass.

You've got to applaud KZ for the quality of the dynamic driver they've stuck in a £12 IEM with such fantastic build quality.

The BA is standard for recent KZs. They're bright IMO with a peak around 11khz but this isn't a deal breaker for me.

They are definitely full of detail across the spectrum and have a very wide soundstage with decent depth.

KZ are on fire at the moment

Edit:

Just put some bog standard AliExpress foams on them and it tames the brightness.


----------



## CoiL

OK... since so many good reviews/impressions have surfaced... I bought this setup for my wife:





+





I believe she will be pleased ;P


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 11, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Ended up caving and buying fukubukuro and a second ZSN. Got the silver/purple one. Interested in the sound difference, and having a backup to an IEM that covers all the bases for me.



That is not "caving."   That is called "being sensible."



toddy0191 said:


> I think the bass on the ZSNs is outstanding for the price and what gives them the initial wow factor. It's not overemphasized, but goes as low as 20hz without any roll off (using "the ultimate headphone test" site) Add to that its speed and timbre and it has a very pleasing quality with zero muddiness.



Yes, outstanding bass... not just for the price.   Like you said, not muddy at all.  I was listening to a couple of albums last night that had a lot of drumming (I actually think it was keyboard drumming).  There was a weight to it that I usually notice with my best full sized headphones.


----------



## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> OK... since so many good reviews/impressions have surfaced... I bought this setup for my wife:
> 
> I believe she will be pleased ;P


she should!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 11, 2018)

That fukubukuro (lucky bag) from NiceHCK has nearly sold out!  Every time I refresh the page, more have sold.  The ones that remain have the no mic options.   Mine will be the silver with no mic.. I always choose no mic if I can so grateful for that option.

edit.. just noticed a few with mic have suddenly reappeared in the listing


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> That fukubukuro (lucky bag) from NiceHCK has nearly sold out!  Every time I refresh the page, more have sold.  The ones that remain have the no mic options.   Mine will be the silver with no mic.. I always choose no mic if I can so grateful for that option.


Yup, when I ordered last night there was like 280 orders and the only thing they had was no mic option. I went silver no mic.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Back to ZSN. Here is one of my bass quality test songs. Its got 3 different things going on at the same time. ZSN doesn't care.


----------



## cacio (Nov 11, 2018)

look what i have found

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...pter-For-SE535-UE900/1825606_32955022313.html

this is what i was hoping for for a long time (not really fully wireless like this, it would have been also ok if there was a wire between the two)
basically i wanted the housing behind the ears, because its just frustrated to have this hanging down on each side or worse on only one side. every time you turn your head the side with the housing pull the cable down so you end up with no cable on the other side and the next turn rips the headphone of the "no housing" side from your ear.

end even if you have the housing on both sides, its still crap to use it in the gym. every time you lay down to bench press you still have to adjust the headphones because you end up ripping them from your ears while laying down

and i also don't want the mini fully wireless headphones because of the sound quality, battery time and because they are more heavy they can also fall out and because there is no cable to hold it, it drops on the floor (and when you are on the go in the city or so, you may even lose them this way)

so this TRN BT20 receiver/cable looks good for this kind of things because they cant fall out and you don't have to adjust the cable.

the only question is now which chipset was used, the old CSR8670 (CSR8675) or the new QCC5100 series. the new QCC5100 series should have much better battery live.

i have asked NiceHCK about that

this kind of bluetooth receiver would be perfect wireless setup for people like us, who value good sound quality 

EDIT: now i have asked every seller of TRN BT20 on aliexpress


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 11, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yup, when I ordered last night there was like 280 orders and the only thing they had was no mic option. I went silver no mic.



There have been 579 orders as I type this.  Somehow there are more remaining now than there were earlier so maybe he has arranged to have more.  Still no mic version remaining but I did not want that anyway.

edit: a few with mic have suddenly appeared but I expect they will be gone soon


----------



## Trebor1966

CoiL said:


> OK... since so many good reviews/impressions have surfaced... I bought this setup for my wife:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The player looks really nice - what is the name?


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure it is a better cable? I just thought it was a color difference to complement the different colors of the iems.
> 
> I don't mind the silver back plate... looks nice with the purple.  It is just that the plastic part is exactly the same color that I thought that other model was going to be.. if it ever is going to be.  Not sure what happened to that.  I will be keeping mine as they are but I can see why you might like it to be black..that would look good too.
> 
> ...



Yes, according to @1clearhead. He reported a sound difference (more balanced) and the cable is thicker/better (more cores).


----------



## Nikostr8 (Nov 11, 2018)

ahhhhhhhh ZSN or ZS4 dont know what to choose , just have cash for only 1.

PS: is is possible to modify the nozzle of ZSR? ( sanding it or something to make it more comfy? )


----------



## mbwilson111

Nikostr8 said:


> ahhhhhhhh ZSN or ZS4 dont know what to choose , just have cash for only.
> 
> PS: is is possible to modify the nozzle of ZSR? ( sanding it or something to make it more comfy? )



I do not have the ZS4 but the ZSN is sooooooo good...


----------



## Slater

Nikostr8 said:


> is it possible to modify the nozzle of ZSR? ( sanding it or something to make it more comfy? )



What's wrong with it? Too big? Too long? Too sharp?

The BA drivers are in the nozzle, so you couldn't modify the nozzle too much without running into problems with the BAs.


----------



## Nikostr8

Slater said:


> What's wrong with it? Too big? Too long? Too sharp?
> 
> The BA drivers are in the nozzle, so you couldn't modify the nozzle too much without running into problems with the BAs.


too wide , the 6mm nozzles destroy my ears everytime i use them... never tought that 1mm difference would do so much ( i can wear the ZST without a problem and they use a 5mm nozzle) . I was thinking about  sanding them down a bit without making them too fragile knowing that the BAs are located inside.


----------



## Slater

Nikostr8 said:


> too wide , the 6mm nozzles destroy my ears everytime i use them... never tought that 1mm difference would do so much ( i can wear the ZST without a problem and they use a 5mm nozzle) . I was thinking about  sanding them down a bit without making them too fragile knowing that the BAs are located inside.



Try a smaller tip size, which will make up the overall difference in the larger nozzle. So if you normally wear M tips, switch to S tips.

You can also try double or triple flange tips. This moves the nozzle away from the ear canal, alleviating the irritation from the larger size.


----------



## mbwilson111

Nikostr8 said:


> too wide , the 6mm nozzles destroy my ears everytime i use them... never tought that 1mm difference would do so much ( i can wear the ZST without a problem and they use a 5mm nozzle) . I was thinking about  sanding them down a bit without making them too fragile knowing that the BAs are located inside.





Slater said:


> Try a smaller tip size, which will make up the overall difference in the larger nozzle. So if you normally wear M tips, switch to S tips.
> 
> You can also try double or triple flange tips. This moves the nozzle away from the ear canal, alleviating the irritation from the larger size.



...and possibly spinfits.


----------



## kailashrs

Been hearing a lot of good things about about the ZSN, would be an upgrade over the ZS10 by any means? I'm a sucker for clarity and separation and ZS10 has loads of those <3... The ZS10 is the best IEM I've ever used but would like to know this, thanks in advance


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not have the ZS4 but the ZSN is sooooooo good...


That's what an IEM addict says about every KZ model.  Like ED16, ES4, etc.


----------



## Mybutthurts

kailashrs said:


> Been hearing a lot of good things about about the ZSN, would be an upgrade over the ZS10 by any means? I'm a sucker for clarity and separation and ZS10 has loads of those <3... The ZS10 is the best IEM I've ever used but would like to know this, thanks in advance



If you want clarity & separation try the AS10. It most definitely has those qualities and little brighter than the ZS10.

Seeing that the ZSN is half the price of a new ZS10 and that AS/BA/ZS10 are currently KZs premium models I wont say it's an upgrade.
Even so. I have a pair on order.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's what an IEM addict says about every KZ model.  Like ED16, ES4, etc.



I know... lol... but the ZSN is really good 

I only have 8 KZs and I have carefully selected them.  I don't like my ZST as much as the others.  I find the vocals a bit harsh.


----------



## Storyteller (Nov 11, 2018)

Slater said:


> Try a smaller tip size, which will make up the overall difference in the larger nozzle. So if you normally wear M tips, switch to S tips.



I have the same problem as Niko. The nozzles are too big and no matter which tips I put on, its still too wide and I can't get a good seal or a comfortable position. I wanted to like ZSR, but I can't listen to them because those fitting problems. Tried Spinfits, Spiral dots, all kinds of silicon tips, all kinds of foams, Complys, New Bees, etc... I´m thinking of getting ZSN, so I hope the nozzles are smaller.


----------



## CoiL

Trebor1966 said:


> The player looks really nice - what is the name?


QNGEE X2 
Here`s more into on Chi-DAP thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/obscure-chinese-daps.720512/page-354#post-14591421

and here is one review: 
https://auricular.org/5-reproductores-mp3-baratos/
https://auricular.org/qngee-x2-reproductor-mp3/


----------



## BadReligionPunk

cacio said:


> look what i have found
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...pter-For-SE535-UE900/1825606_32955022313.html
> 
> ...



Don't know how I missed this. I will give it a try. Ordered.


----------



## Nikostr8

Slater said:


> Try a smaller tip size, which will make up the overall difference in the larger nozzle. So if you normally wear M tips, switch to S tips.
> 
> You can also try double or triple flange tips. This moves the nozzle away from the ear canal, alleviating the irritation from the larger size.


actually im testing my other iems and i just noticed that the yersen fen-2000 also uses 6mm nozzle , but i dont have problem while using them... could it be that the nozzle is not the problem? using the fen-2000 with S-size silicone tips ( aswell as ZSR )


----------



## CardigdanWalk

BadReligionPunk said:


> Don't know how I missed this. I will give it a try. Ordered.



Waaah, just when I thought I wouldn’t buy anything for the rest of the year and I see this.

I’ve lost track of the number of Bluetooth solutions I’ve bought now, and this does look the nicest so far for running.

Trying to resist buying! Do we know if it’s AAC?


----------



## jant71

cacio said:


> look what i have found
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...pter-For-SE535-UE900/1825606_32955022313.html
> 
> ...



If it was a Qualcomm they would have advertised it or they are dumb not to. No way it is 5100 series cause of the cost. Would be the 3026 but even the cheaper one has the better battery life. Leads me to think it might be other than Qualcomm chipset. Of course how good is the antenna is a big deal as well. Nothing on that. This may dropout a bunch for all we know. We are guinea pigs here. Not sure if you lay back on a bench they won't bob around but that doesn't mean they will come out or break your in ear seal. We need testers  Many first gen things usually need to be improved or fixed.


----------



## Slater (Nov 11, 2018)

Nikostr8 said:


> actually im testing my other iems and i just noticed that the yersen fen-2000 also uses 6mm nozzle , but i dont have problem while using them... could it be that the nozzle is not the problem? using the fen-2000 with S-size silicone tips ( aswell as ZSR )



Yes, it’s very possible that the nozzle isn’t the problem.

Here’s some common problems, which may or may not affect you.

*Problem* #*1*:
IEM is just too large, plain and simple (or the user’s ear is too small).

This is an example where the IEM is just too big and the user really should just find another IEM that fits better.





*Problem* #*2*:
IEM isn’t oriented properly.

There are some people that are confused about how to wear ‘up’ aka behind-the-ear IEMs.

Some IEMs can be worn ‘up’ or ‘down’. The ZSR is not one of those. It must be worn ‘up’.

And when worn up, it must be oriented properly.

The following is NOT the correct way to wear ‘up’ IEMs, as it is not rotated properly into position. Plus, the cables aren’t even router right.

  

Problem #3:
The pointy part of the shell that is supposed to fit into the concha of the ear is too big or too long.

The part I’m referring to is the ‘pointy’ part (on the right side in the below photo). It is the primary reason why the ZS3 doesn’t fit some people. The ZSR has a similar part, which is why I also believe the ZSR has trouble fitting some people. Luckily that part can be sanded down somewhat, and many people have done so on the ZS3 and ZSR with positive results.





The correct way to wear this style IEM:

This goes along with Problem #2 above. Below is the CORRECT way to wear the ZSR style of IEM.

The key here is to note the orientation of the IEM itself.

The 1st photo demonstrates it perfectly.

 

This last photo is a custom hearing aid (taken while I was getting ear impressions for CIEMs at the audiologist last week), but it still demonstrates the correct orientation of ergonomically-shaped IEMs.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> That is not "caving."   That is called "being sensible."
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, outstanding bass... not just for the price.   Like you said, not muddy at all.  I was listening to a couple of albums last night that had a lot of drumming (I actually think it was keyboard drumming).  *There was a weight to it that I usually notice with my best full sized headphones*.


+1 You hear what I hear...!


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> +1 You hear what I hear...!



Guess that flat response to 20Hz really does wonder.


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 12, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> Guess that flat response to 20Hz really does wonder.


As Slater mentioned before, I think the back plate combined with the acrylic/resin housing does give the best of both worlds of comfort, style, and sound! If you notice the holes on the back plate, it probably gives some of the best possible bass, closer to a full-size sounding headphone, which was probably perfectly aligned at the time they built these. I can see that KZ went above and beyond and probably didn't realize that they worked a little too hard for these at such a low price! These were carefully crafted to be one of their best, yet!

Let's see what else they bring to the table....


----------



## DocHoliday

With all the energy centered around the NiceHCK grab bag with a DITA-like designed IEM I am still hoping that KZ will throw some of us a bone by moving forward with their YZ63 teaser design. 




 

Sometimes it's good to go back to the beginning. My hope is that they DO NOT offer it in a hybrid configuration but instead offer it in a very well tuned single dynamic driver that would perhaps rival the Tin Audio T2. Perhaps they can go with an 8mm, 10mm or even design a 12mm single dynamic with similar technology that was used in the HDS3 (high performance rubidium magnet and voice coil imported from Japan).



 



Yes, I am definitely still waiting for the ZS7.......



 


.......but I would really like to see KZ put forth a CNC aluminum no-frills housing with detachable cables. Heck, even a dual dynamic in a push-pull configuration would be stellar if KZ knows how to properly do it.

The YZ63 in a single or dual dynamic with detachable cables in brass/gold like this DITA would be a welcome treat from KZ right about now.



 

The multi-BA war offers no guarantees while a well-tuned dynamic can be all one really needs.


Note to KZ:


----------



## TLDRonin

DocHoliday said:


> With all the energy centered around the NiceHCK grab bag with a DITA-like designed IEM I am still hoping that KZ will throw some of us a bone by moving forward with their YZ63 teaser design.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Imported from/made in Japan" is a buzzword that I fall for far too often...


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> With all the energy centered around the NiceHCK grab bag with a DITA-like designed IEM I am still hoping that KZ will throw some of us a bone by moving forward with their YZ63 teaser design.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes it's good to go back to the beginning. My hope is that they DO NOT offer it in a hybrid configuration but instead offer it in a very well tuned single dynamic driver that would perhaps rival the Tin Audio T2. Perhaps they can go with an 8mm, 10mm or even design a 12mm single dynamic with similar technology that was used in the HDS3 (high performance rubidium magnet and voice coil imported from Japan).



I love a nice juicy dynamic driver too. But unfortunately I believe the YZ63 is going to be a hybrid since it says so right on the front


----------



## Zerohour88

DocHoliday said:


> With all the energy centered around the NiceHCK grab bag with a DITA-like designed IEM I am still hoping that KZ will throw some of us a bone by moving forward with their YZ63 teaser design.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



second this, I don't mind hybrid or single DD, but I get quite good fit from the Dita Answer (and subsequently, the Tin Audio T1, which was surprisingly similar in sound sig to the Answer). Might even break my own rule of waiting for my beaters to be "beaten up" and buy it just for that, lol.

in other news, bisonicr tested the cheap KZ and TRN cables, it seems he also preferred the KZ offerings. Now that's something:

http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55732801.html


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> bisonicr tested the cheap KZ and TRN cables, it seems he also preferred the KZ offerings. Now that's something:
> 
> http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55732801.html



Well that sucks, because I'm all stocked up on 8-core TRN cables


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Well that sucks, because I'm all stocked up on 8-core TRN cables



to be fair, he's a cable believer, so take it with a lot of salt. Things that are more tangible though, he said the connectors felt a bit cheap/low-quality and the cable itself a bit "rough" and flashy. Also the 2-pin CIEM-like connectors not actually fitting a CIEM perfectly (not that you'd use this with any CIEM, lol). KZ cables felt well-made but low-priced


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> he said the connectors felt a bit cheap/low-quality and the cable itself a bit "rough" and flashy. Also the 2-pin CIEM-like connectors not actually fitting a CIEM perfectly (not that you'd use this with any CIEM, lol). KZ cables felt well-made but low-priced


If I remember correctly... I couldn't get my TRN 8 core to work with my ED16, it kept falling out.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> in other news, bisonicr tested the cheap KZ and TRN cables, it seems he also preferred the KZ offerings. Now that's something:
> http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55732801.html


Anyone know where to get this translated? Google Translate keeps freezing. Thanks.


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Anyone know where to get this translated? Google Translate keeps freezing. Thanks.



you can use google Chrome and use the translate feature directly, though I usually use the google translate site and copy-paste part of the reviews so that it makes more sense.

worst case scenario, I might just bother my japanese-fluent friend to help me translate, lol


----------



## voicemaster

Man listening the ZSN plugged to Cavalli Liquid Carbon is an absolute bliss. 
This bass track sounds so good with the ZSN


----------



## voicemaster

This is a track that I usually used when I am doing sound check for an event. Sounds very good with the ZSN.


----------



## Slater (Nov 12, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Anyone know where to get this translated? Google Translate keeps freezing. Thanks.



For some reason his stuff ALWAYS freezes the google translate plugins or direct web page conversion. No clue why.

What works is to go to the page, select all text, and then paste it into Google translate (at translate.google.com). Works every time, but you don't get the photos (text only).


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> For some reason his stuff ALWAYS freezes the google translate plugins or direct web page conversion. No clue why.
> 
> What works is to go to the page, select all text, and then paste it into Google translate (at translate.google.com). Works every time, but you don't get the photos (text only).



hm...weird, I never get any kind of crashing there. Then again, its computer stuff, weird crap happens all the time and you can't always figure it out. I use google chrome and pc has 16gb of RAMs, in case its a chrome eating too much memory issue.


----------



## Slater (Nov 12, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> hm...weird, I never get any kind of crashing there. Then again, its computer stuff, weird **** happens all the time and you can't always figure it out. I use google chrome and pc has 16gb of RAMs, in case its a chrome eating too much memory issue.



Chromebook user with 4GB of ram here. Like you said; weird stuff.


----------



## cacio (Nov 12, 2018)

jant71 said:


> If it was a Qualcomm they would have advertised it or they are dumb not to. No way it is 5100 series cause of the cost. Would be the 3026 but even the cheaper one has the better battery life. Leads me to think it might be other than Qualcomm chipset. Of course how good is the antenna is a big deal as well. Nothing on that. This may dropout a bunch for all we know. We are guinea pigs here. Not sure if you lay back on a bench they won't bob around but that doesn't mean they will come out or break your in ear seal. We need testers  Many first gen things usually need to be improved or fixed.



so i got some replies from the sellers.

"Dear friend, it is realtek"
"Realtek"
.. 2 other seller also saying realtek

and some said they don't know and one seller seems to lie (i think)

A K Audio Store said: "friend, it is a bluetooth version the new QCC5100 is a low power consumption version"

and while the QCC3026 should also have better battery life, i am not really sold on it quite yet.

the *Oppo O-Free *comes with the QCC3026 and the sound quality seems to be mediocre. but yeah it depends on the driver used, how well the SoC was implemented, tuning and so on. 

but Oppo is one of those companies who should know (and care) about good quality :/


----------



## vegetaleb

Ok I ordered a black ZS4 with mic yesterday, hoping it will be the real successor of my ZS3
Knowing AE and Chine Post I won't have it before a month lol


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> For some reason his stuff ALWAYS freezes the google translate plugins or direct web page conversion. No clue why.
> 
> What works is to go to the page, select all text, and then paste it into Google translate (at translate.google.com). Works every time, but you don't get the photos (text only).


+1 True, this would probably be the best way.


----------



## Deveraux

Which size tips to get for zsn? T400?


----------



## CoiL

DocHoliday said:


> With all the energy centered around the NiceHCK grab bag with a DITA-like designed IEM I am still hoping that KZ will throw some of us a bone by moving forward with their YZ63 teaser design.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1


----------



## GREQ (Nov 13, 2018)

I've owned the KZ ZS10 for a few months and tried out various tips that always left me wanting.
Last week I tried out and immediately settled on aftermarket jaybird *foam* tips which seem to only bring down everything including and above 10kHz down by about 10dB.
Finally I can enjoy these without being bothered by the 11-12khz peak.












**edit** - changed "jaybird tips" to "jaybird foam tips"


----------



## Slater (Nov 12, 2018)

cacio said:


> so i got some replies from the sellers.
> 
> "Dear friend, it is realtek"
> "Realtek"
> ...



It’s nice to know what chip is in it from a geek spec standpoint. But I personally didn’t care. It was $21. I didn’t care on the BT3 or BT10 either. Those sound good and work well for what they are. If the new one sounds good and works well I’ll be happy (even if the battery life isn’t as long as what’s claimed, as they never are).

If it was $200, I would have cared much more.

Also keep in mind, a manufacturer can use the best chip in the world, but if it’s poorly implemented the end result will suck. There’s a lot more that needs to go into the overall design than simply what chip is used.

I could be wrong though. Is there something epically awesome about the QCC5100 chip that I’m missing? Or is it just the latest and greatest generation of chip?


----------



## Slater

GREQ said:


> I've owned the KZ ZS10 for a few months and tried out various tips that always left me wanting.
> Last week I tried out and immediately settled on aftermarket jaybird tips which seem to only bring down everything including and above 10kHz down by about 10dB.
> Finally I can enjoy these without being bothered by the 11-12khz peak.



Wow, nice one! I would have never guessed a silicone tip would have reduced upper treble by 10dB!


----------



## GREQ

Slater said:


> Wow, nice one! I would have never guessed a silicone tip would have reduced upper treble by 10dB!


Ah, sorry... I should've mentioned it was the jaybird foamy.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/1Pair-Repla...var=413197896278&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## cacio (Nov 12, 2018)

Slater said:


> It’s nice to know what chip is in it from a geek spec standpoint. But I personally didn’t care. It was $21. I didn’t care on the BT3 or BT10 either. Those sound good and work well for what they are. If the new one sounds good and works well I’ll be happy (even if the battery life isn’t as long as what’s claimed, as they never are).
> 
> If it was $200, I would have cared much more.
> 
> ...




yes its true, the best chip can sound bad if implemented badly.

the nice thing about the QCC5100 series is the much improved battery life(we are talking about up to 65% more efficient). so instead the ~5h we get from the typical bluetooth headset, we could get ~10h battery life

also aptx HD is nice. you end up with ~570KBit so its nearly CD quality

and since its a new chip design, the DAC should also be imroved, but i have no data on that, just assumption on this point, because the chip is so new and there aren't really devices with it yet

on top of that, bluetooth 5.0 allows up to 100mw power (BT < 5.0 only 10mw max) and this puts it on the same power level like wifi (in europe 100mw is max allowed, USA can have higher power)
so if done well, you will have much better range

this all adds up, you you end up with nearly the same quality experience like a wired setup, but without the wires.

also with the stupid trend in the smartphone industry that everyone is removing headphone jacks, you sadly have to look at bluetooth setups at some point in the future.


----------



## vegetaleb

cacio said:


> yes its true, the best chip can sound bad if implemented badly.
> 
> the nice thing about the QCC5100 series is the much improved battery life(we are talking about up to 65% more efficient). so instead the ~5h we get from the typical bluetooth headset, we could get ~10h battery life
> 
> ...



Yeah HTC was too dumb to suppress the 3.5mm port while they had te best audio phone with the HTC 10, though you can still use a USB C to 3.5mm adapter, the one that come with the U11+ and U12+ is quite nice and loud


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Wow, nice one! I would have never guessed a silicone tip would have reduced upper treble by 10dB!


I bought those ostry  tunning tips off Amazon.  They are silicone with metal tubes and mesh screens/filters. The black ones absolutely crush treble.  I bet it's 10db at least.  The red ones are a bit less treble reduction,  and the blue ones are bass tips.  They run $6 a pack which includes s, m, L tips or can be purchased with all 3 packs for $17. I actually got lucky and saw a seller that had all 3 packs for $6 prime shipped.  Jumped on those.  Don't know if I will ever use them,  but they are an option.


----------



## cacio (Nov 12, 2018)

vegetaleb said:


> Yeah HTC was too dumb to suppress the 3.5mm port while they had te best audio phone with the HTC 10, though you can still use a USB C to 3.5mm adapter, the one that come with the U11+ and U12+ is quite nice and loud


but then you can't charge and listen to music in the same time.
and also this is yet an additional thing you could forget at home


----------



## TechnoidFR

cacio said:


> but then you can't charge and listen to music in the same time.
> and also this is yet an additional thing you could forget at home



HTC...
Go meizu 16th 
Best Jack on the market,or Vivo Nex S


----------



## Mellowship

GB flash sale USD 13.99 on ZSN... Got one, like I said I wouldn't. I hate y'all!


----------



## loomisjohnson

having not heard the new zsn or the zs10/ba10 series, I've come to rank my kzs thusly:
1.   ZSR—enveloping and engaging, with smoother highs and more forward mids than previous hybrids; these stress fun and energy over transparency and seamless coherence.

2A. ED16— better fitting than the similarly-tuned ZSR, with less oomph but better tamed bass.
2B. ED9 (gold filter)—other KZs have a bigger stage and/or more overall clarity, bit the ED9 has that indefinable naturalness

3.   ED1R—rich and refined (more v-shaped that the ED2R), with very good clarity and coherence, especially through more powerful sources; stage is narrower than their pricier peers, but these are otherwise difficult to criticize.

3A. ZS5 (v.1)—giant stage and great extension at both ends, if not hyper-accurate or natural; need an amp to sound good
3B. zS6--easier to drive and better-fitting than the ZS5, but not as well tuned, with somewhat overdone, piercing treble

4. ZS4--much more detailed than the ZS3, esp. at the highend, tho inessential if you have the ZSR, etc.

5. HDS3—irrationally engaging—, energetic and surprisingly detailed, if  inaccurate; low end can get unruly

6.  ZS3—once you find the tips that tame its giant bass, these are the  most party-hearty of the bunch; not much treble detail 

7. ED10—rich and clear throughout the spectrum; could stand to be a bit more open and airy

7. ZST—much surpassed by the newer hybrids; lacks midrange presence though imaging/layering are excellent

8. ED2R—balanced and surprisingly refined for the price, with vg imaging and pretty good detail; only a slight highend graininess mars the presentation

9. EDSE—not hyper-detailed or extended, and midbass can overwhelm, but tons of fun

10. ED3c—these need a bit of midrange body, but are otherwise close in spirit to the ED9, with uncanny imaging

11. ATE—warmish and pretty good sounding, though lacking in high end extension and sparkle—the ZS3 do the same overall signature  bigger and better

12. ZSE—slightly dark sounding and veiled; bass is tight and deep and mids are forward and rich, though high end lacks sizzle; much, much better when amped

13. ED7—unrefined bass/mids and poor isolation. high end is quite smooth yet detailed; still a decent listen

14. HDS2—not good

I think I have too many earphones....


----------



## cacio

TechnoidFR said:


> HTC...
> Go meizu 16th
> Best Jack on the market,or Vivo Nex S


yeah Vivo, LG and maybe Meizu (they had high end phones in the past with dedicated DACs) are the last options for us in the future. cuz i don't want or need an another device (DAP) to carry around

Meizu 16th is very sexy and i have checked it out already. but i have not seen any comprehensive review of the audio performance yet. Meizu itself does not say which DAC they use, so its maybe the build in from the SD845 SoC. 

But this must not be bad. in fact, if done right, it can be quite good. i have an OnePlus 3 (with SD820) and it has actually really great audio performance for a 400€ phone. (even better than OnePlus 6, and the 6T does not even have a 3.5mm jack anymore xDDD) also my OP3 still has a good custom ROM community, so i get latest and greatest android. performance wise its still on par with today high end phones (real world use) because of the software optimization


the only ugly thing about meizu (and most phones tbh) is the UI "inspired" from iOS. but with every phone which was released with android 8.0 or later, you can flash a generic vanilla android ROM, so you end up with pure android without bloat. (as long you can unlock the bootloader, so huawei is no option)


and ok, i get all the benefits of USB C, and i do like all of them. but removing the headphone jack without giving us a 2nd USB port for usb audio "cables" is not simply removing a "legacy" port, but actually removing 50% of ports on our devices


----------



## TechnoidFR

cacio said:


> yeah Vivo, LG and maybe Meizu (they had high end phones in the past with dedicated DACs) are the last options for us in the future. cuz i don't want or need an another device (DAP) to carry around
> 
> Meizu 16th is very sexy and i have checked it out already. but i have not seen any comprehensive review of the audio performance yet. Meizu itself does not say which DAC they use, so its maybe the build in from the SD845 SoC.
> 
> ...




Same for me. I had always two smartphones

The meizu 16th uses s845 dac + amp cirrus logic
Plus version have entirely dedicated dac and amp.
Meizu 15th have dedicated dac and amp. I'll have meizu 16th for review and have pro 6 plus.


Integrated dac of Qualcomm is rarely good tuned and bad alim. The sound is far better than my pro 6 plus, s845 or other. But some actors use amp ( Asus Zenfone 5z, Nokia 7 plus, oppo r15 pro that I reviewed) which improved a lot the quality. Not very good amp but far better than integrated dac. So if meizu use integrated + amp you can be sure that is a excellent solution.

Flyme  is particular I agree but the flyme 7 is very cool to use. Smooth, optimize, simple... You can't have all 

And in for USB C the reality is : USB C dongle with correct dac or USB C use analogic output and use integrated dac but with no advantage... So... It's just for design/price for the constructor..


----------



## Slater (Nov 12, 2018)

cacio said:


> yes its true, the best chip can sound bad if implemented badly.
> 
> the nice thing about the QCC5100 series is the much improved battery life(we are talking about up to 65% more efficient). so instead the ~5h we get from the typical bluetooth headset, we could get ~10h battery life
> 
> ...



Yes, all valid points and well put.

I agree that the trend of removing the 3.5mm port on phones is total and utter BS.

The only thing I would add, is that to take advantage of the advancements (such as BT5.0, aptX, etc), you have to have it on both sides. Otherwise, it just negotiates down to whatever you’re running.

Since nothing I own has aptX, aptX HD, aptX LL, AAC, BT 5.0, etc it would simply downgrade to BT 4.1 or 4.2 (what I have).

That’s honestly why I said screw it and ordered it. I can enjoy and use it now, and maybe in a year or whatever I’ll upgrade my source to BT 5.0. But by then there will be a number of offerings ways better than the TRN BT20, so it really doesn’t matter (to me) anyways.


----------



## CoiL

loomisjohnson said:


> 11. ATE—warmish and pretty good sounding, though lacking in high end extension and sparkle—the ZS3 do the same overall signature  bigger and better


You should mod it (5th gen)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I cut and pasted the Japanese review of those cables and he didn't say much about the TRN but went on and on about how great the KZ cables are. Cool.

PS: I bought the Black KZ ZSN but wish I bought the Cyan now, the body looks better. Oh well.


----------



## cacio

Slater said:


> Yes, all valid points and well put.
> 
> I agree that the trend of removing the 3.5mm port on phones is total and utter BS.
> 
> ...




since android 8, every phone does have aptx , aptx HD, LDAC etc build in. they all agreed with google that it is license free. now only the "receiver" part has to pay license fee


----------



## Slater (Nov 12, 2018)

cacio said:


> since android 8, every phone does have aptx , aptx HD, LDAC etc build in. they all agreed with google that it is license free. now only the "receiver" part has to pay license fee



Nice.

The last Android phone I had was the original HTC Incredible, which was like the pioneer Android phone. I ran Cyanogenmod.

I actually still have them (2). I’ve thought about turning one into dedicated DAPs, because there’s not much else I can do with it.


----------



## cacio

TechnoidFR said:


> Same for me. I had always two smartphones
> 
> The meizu 16th uses s845 dac + amp cirrus logic
> Plus version have entirely dedicated dac and amp.
> ...




on my OnePlus 3 the quality was so good because they used a good headphone amp. the dac was the build in from SD820. so if the meizu 16th does have good performance, its looks tempting for me although my OP3 still is usable with 6GB ram (Google Pixel 3 still has only 4GB lol)

and with the google pixel camera app ports you also don't have to worry much about the camera performance. as long the sensor is good, you'll get really great pictures with google camera


----------



## Slater

Hey, someone posted side by side close up photos of the 2 different ZSN cables maybe 1-2 weeks ago. I’ve spent 30 minutes trying to find the post with no luck.

Does anyone remember the post?


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Hey, someone posted side by side close up photos of the 2 different ZSN cables maybe 1-2 weeks ago. I’ve spent 30 minutes trying to find the post with no luck.
> 
> Does anyone remember the post?



this posted by @1clearhead 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2496#post-14569015


----------



## dondonut

Slater said:


> Hey, someone posted side by side close up photos of the 2 different ZSN cables maybe 1-2 weeks ago. I’ve spent 30 minutes trying to find the post with no luck.
> 
> Does anyone remember the post?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2496#post-14569015

I was actually just reading up on the ZSN and looking for a secondary source to confirm the sound difference between the ZSN cables. You ordered the purple ones right? I'm torn because i really do prefer the turquoise > black over purple. Then again, I got multiple pairs of iems coming my way (BQ3, EZaudio D4, NiceHCK mystery bag). Maybe I should stop buying stuff now and enjoy those first.

@mbwilson111 beat me to it


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 12, 2018)

dondonut said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2496#post-14569015
> 
> I was actually just reading up on the ZSN and looking for a secondary source to confirm the sound difference between the ZSN cables. You ordered the purple ones right? I'm torn because i really do prefer the turquoise > black over purple. Then again, I got multiple pairs of iems coming my way (BQ3, EZaudio D4, NiceHCK mystery bag). Maybe I should stop buying stuff now and enjoy those first.
> 
> @mbwilson111 beat me to it



1clearhead describes the differences that he heard in the link I just provided above.  I think it sounds like either would be good and that the different cables were provided to compliment the respective iem colors.   I am happy with my silver/purple that I chose for its color.. not because of any worry over the sound.


----------



## dondonut (Nov 12, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> 1clearhead describes the differences that he heard in the link I just provided above.



I was aware of that, otherwise I wouldn't have known about the post. After I sent the link I saw you did so 2min before me  . Still, I might as well wait ordering the ZSN and see how others perceive the difference between cables, they wont be going anywhere


----------



## mbwilson111

dondonut said:


> I was aware of that, otherwise I wouldn't have known about the post. After I send the link I saw you did so 2min before me  . Still, I might as well wait ordering the ZSN and see how others perceive the difference between cables, they wont be going anywhere



I just mentioned that more for others that are reading this thread.  Personally I think people should get the one they like the look of.  If you don't like the look you might not use it as much.  Aesthetics are an important part of the whole package for me.


----------



## dondonut

mbwilson111 said:


> I just mentioned that more for others that are reading this thread.  Personally I think people should get the one they like the look of.  If you don't like the look you might not use it as much.  Aesthetics are an important part of the whole package for me.



Good point, I thought your post was a direct reply to my question concerning sound difference. While I agree on aesthetics being important, sound is most important for me. Nevertheless, that would be more relevant in case I couldnt decide between two completely different models; in this case I would agree. Sound difference is probably neglible compared to the difference in appearance. Then again, might as well wait a week or so untill others have assessed the difference between cables


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I got the black/cyan and love it.  Went back during the sale and ordered the silver/purple for comparisons and backup. Then I thought damn.  I'm gonna switch the silver and black backs and roll with black/purple. Silver/cyan.

Indirectly got the idea from Slater.


----------



## loomisjohnson

mbwilson111 said:


> I just mentioned that more for others that are reading this thread.  Personally I think people should get the one they like the look of.  If you don't like the look you might not use it as much.  Aesthetics are an important part of the whole package for me.


i agree with mbwilson, which is generally good policy around here--aesthetics are critical for most folks, and i think on some visceral level we impute better sound to something that looks and feels better. i'm sure i overate certain pieces which are particularly well designed (the trn v80 comes to mind) and underrate others which look and feel more generic (ues900).


----------



## dondonut

BadReligionPunk said:


> I got the black/cyan and love it.  Went back during the sale and ordered the silver/purple for comparisons and backup. Then I thought damn.  I'm gonna switch the silver and black backs and roll with black/purple. Silver/cyan.
> 
> Indirectly got the idea from Slater.



Yeah that was something I considered as well!! Care to send some pics of the cyan/silver? That combi sounds good


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I got the black/cyan and love it.  Went back during the sale and ordered the silver/purple for comparisons and backup. Then I thought damn.  I'm gonna switch the silver and black backs and roll with black/purple. Silver/cyan.
> 
> Indirectly got the idea from Slater.



Haha, that’s actually my plan!

Purple with black cover and Black with silver cover.

I may mirror polish the silver cover. I’m not sure and will decide when it comes.


----------



## Slater (Nov 12, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> i agree with mbwilson, which is generally good policy around here--aesthetics are critical for most folks, and i think on some visceral level we impute better sound to something that looks and feels better. i'm sure i overate certain pieces which are particularly well designed (the trn v80 comes to mind) and underrate others which look and feel more generic (ues900).



Perfect examples:

- The Timmkoo C631 turned a lot of people away due to the ‘bling’ gold housing (despite sounding awesome)
- The Timmkoo that looks all crazy with its metal hinge turned a lot of people off.


- The KZ BA10 turned a lot of people off by its robot looking shape and Iron Man color scheme

There’s many others, but you get the point. All of those would probably had more people try them if they didn’t have such polarizing looks.

I know a HeadFier (with a very large collection) who doesn’t want to even _try_ the KZ EDR1 because she is turned off by the looks.

So yeah, looks definitely play a part in how we perceive the products. Even though with audio products the sound is kind of more important (or at least should be).

I mean, I wouldn’t be caught dead wearing these even if they were literally the best sounding headphones in the world:


BTW, the above abomination costs $9k. And those are not real jewels but rather rhinestone costume jewelry-grade junk.


----------



## ShakyJake (Nov 12, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> i agree with mbwilson, which is generally good policy around here--aesthetics are critical for most folks, and i think on some visceral level we impute better sound to something that looks and feels better. i'm sure i overate certain pieces which are particularly well designed (the trn v80 comes to mind) and underrate others which look and feel more generic (ues900).



Looks matter. One of my favorites, the c631 (Joyplus/Timmkoo/Estron) still makes me cringe when I put it on. But it sounds so good.... 





Maybe I need to do the Slater Black Tape "aesthetic" mod


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> Looks matter. One of my favorites, the c631 (Joyplus/Timmkoo/Estron) still makes me cringe when I put it on. But it sounds so good....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was actually been thinking of removing my black tape and just painting my pair with black nail polish. It should go on easily, dry smooth, and be durable.


----------



## ShakyJake (Nov 12, 2018)

ShakyJake said:


> Looks matter. One of my favorites, the c631 (Joyplus/Timmkoo/Estron) still makes me cringe when I put it on. But it sounds so good....
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> I was actually been thinking of removing my black tape and just painting my pair with black nail polish. It should go on easily, dry smooth, and be durable.


Maybe with some shiny nail appliques on top 


Spoiler: Totally Off-topic Image



[







Oops, this is the KZ thread. Better get back on topic...


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I know a HeadFier (with a very large collection) who doesn’t want to even _try_ the KZ EDR1 because she is turned off by the looks.



LOL I wonder who that is. 



Slater said:


> I mean, I wouldn’t be caught dead wearing these even if they were literally the best sounding headphones in the world:



Awwww...you don't want to look like a princess?


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 12, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> having not heard the new zsn or the zs10/ba10 series, I've come to rank my kzs thusly:
> 1.   ZSR—enveloping and engaging, with smoother highs and more forward mids than previous hybrids; these stress fun and energy over transparency and seamless coherence.
> 
> 2A. ED16— better fitting than the similarly-tuned ZSR, with less oomph but better tamed bass.
> ...



Great post Loomis!

Here's my take:

1. ZS6 - better-fitting than the ZS5, better tuned with increased focus across the board.
(high definition but piercing treble for some)

2. ZSR—enveloping and engaging, with smoother highs and more forward mids than previous hybrids; these stress fun and energy over transparency and seamless coherence.

3. BA10 (nozzle foam removed) - Laid back with tons of detail (though micro-detail is tapered). Bass when it's called for and gone when it's not. Great with silicones at moderate volume levels but foam tips are mandatory at higher volumes. I find that they run smoother with a low output impedance source.

4. ZS5 (v1) - giant stage, very natural, great extension at both ends but gentle decay in lower frequencies keep them from being #2 on this list (require a low output impedance source and power to shine).

5. We have a tie!
ED10 - open, airy & energetic. rich & clear throughout the spectrum; only drawback is shallow depth.
EDR1 - rich and refined (more v-shaped than the ED2R), with very good clarity and coherence, especially through more powerful sources; stage is narrower than their pricier peers, but these are otherwise difficult to criticize.

6. HDS3 - can't put my finger on it but these just do it for me. "Irrationally engaging" is a good description. Holographic restrained energy! These are like the "honey chicken bowl at my local Japanese restaurant, sweet with the perfect amount of kick (spice).

7. We have a tie!
ED9 (gold filter with foam removed) - open, airy, natural and engaging. Dense but soft bass.
ED9 (brass filter with transplanted foam from the gold filter) - more balanced approach while retaining great clarity and that "indefinable naturalness".

8. ZST - much surpassed by the newer hybrids; lacks midrange presence though imaging/layering are excellent

9. ED3 "Perfection" - generally balanced and clean with a slight lift in the upper-treble (ZS6 sound signature via KZ's early single dynamic setup. Surreal for classical and baroque genres. 

10. ZS3 - once you find the tips that tame its giant bass, these are the most party-hearty of the bunch; not much treble detail and they can be shouty with the foam mod.

11. We have a tie!
ATR(i) with ABS dynamic driver - Best all-rounder that KZ has released to date. Airy with great sense of timbre, nearly balanced, great at nothing but good at almost everything except upper-treble extension. 
HDS1 - one of the few KZ's with a mid-centric (inverted "V") sound signature, not much sub-bass rumble or upper-treble but otherwise excellent. 

12. ED3 "Acme" - these need a bit of midrange body, but are otherwise close in spirit to the ED9, with uncanny imaging

13. ED2R—balanced and surprisingly refined for the price, with vg imaging and pretty good detail; only a slight highend graininess mars the presentation

14. ED8 - A bassheads dream despite their heavy metal housings, good extension from sub-bass to lower-treble with a warm bent.

15. EDSE—not hyper-detailed or extended, and midbass can overwhelm, but tons of fun

16. We have a tie!
ED7 - deep bass with centered mids but a perfect seal is mandatory, smooth yet detailed high end.  a decent listen but mostly used for a change of pace in my rotation.
ATE-S - slightly brighter than the ATE(ii) with faster and harder-hitting mid-bass. 

17. ATE - warmish and decent sounding, though lacking in high end extension and sparkle—the ZS3 do the same overall signature bigger and better

18.  HDS2—not good

Once we get past #7 on the list I could jostle some of the others into higher/lower positionings on any given Sunday depending on my mood. For example, I prefer the ED8 sound signature over the ZS3's but the ZS3 is top notch in comfort and isolation. 
Haven't heard the ZS4 or ED16 yet, my ZSE is MIA.

*** EDIT ***

Completely forgot about the ZSA. I'd place it on equal footing with the HDS3, small comfortable and "Irrationally engaging". At some point I'll pick up an AS10, ZS10, ES4, ZS4, ZSN and ED16 but I'd be willing to bet that we'll see a new release or two just in time for black friday which is a couple of weeks away. I'm mostly looking forward to the ZS7 though.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Haha, that’s actually my plan!
> 
> Purple with black cover and Black with silver cover.
> 
> I may mirror polish the silver cover. I’m not sure and will decide when it comes.


Yes the good thing about switching to silver/cyan is that I think silver would be easier to paint over,


Slater said:


> Haha, that’s actually my plan!
> 
> Purple with black cover and Black with silver cover.
> 
> I may mirror polish the silver cover. I’m not sure and will decide when it comes.



I will definitely give you credit for the brilliant idea. I want to kind of paint the silver one, just don't know yet. I'm thinking possibly Rasta colors. Hmm...


----------



## scottySK

I've finally found tips that work well for me with the ZSA and wow these things really kick down low.

I'm using generic round foams from AliExpress and the fit is fantastic especially since they are so small. 

I never hear people recommending these when people are asking for bass.. is it just because the treble can be a bit sibilant at times? I find it acceptable with the foams. The bass is off the charts for me when I compare to the ZS10

I loved the build of these when I first picked them up but never gave them much of a listen. Glad I've revisited them


----------



## scottySK

Also, the phonograph have just reviewed the ZSN if anyone was interested in their take on it


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 13, 2018)

scottySK said:


> Also, the phonograph have just reviewed the ZSN if anyone was interested in their take on it


Thanks for the link. 

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsn-review/

Woah. I could have bought it $3 cheaper on Gearbest, than Aliexpress. 

https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009674864900.html


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> Here's the actual differences with the wires and nozzles for the purple/silver and cyan/black ZSN...
> 
> If you have both, you'll definitely hear the difference with both wires. It might not be night and day, but it was noticeable enough for me to hear that the dark wire makes the ZSN sound a bit thicker in the bass region and provide a warmer vocal tone to the MID region, while the lighter wire provides less in both areas giving it a better balance throughout the whole signature.
> Hope this helps... -Clear


I'm assuming you switched the wires between both ear pieces to see the differences too and this is that calculation?


----------



## Slater

scottySK said:


> Also, the phonograph have just reviewed the ZSN if anyone was interested in their take on it



Is it just me, or is that review whole lot of fluff and approximately 2 sentences of actual useful info?

He even says the ZSN cable is the same cable used on every KZ??

I know some people like that site, but that particular review seems like it was hastily thrown together.

On a positive note, the most useful thing I took away? The ZSN is basically identical to the ES4 according to the FR graph (except above 16k, which is beyond my hearing limit as well as being unreliable to measure).


----------



## scottySK

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is that review whole lot of fluff and approximately 2 sentences of actual useful info?
> 
> He even says the ZSN cable is the same cable used on every KZ??
> 
> ...



Does the ZSN and ES4 share the same DD?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> I just ordered the purple/silver zsn for $20.99. Thank God its not $99+.


Slater mentioned it's like the ES4 which is not worth $99+ as the ED16 is much better.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

scottySK said:


> Does the ZSN and ES4 share the same DD?


Pretty sure No. Also neither of the iems sound remotely close to each other.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Slater mentioned it's like the ES4 which is not worth $99+ as the ED16 is much better.





BadReligionPunk said:


> Pretty sure No. Also neither of the iems sound remotely close to each other.



No no, I said they look identical up to 16k *according to the FR graphs* posted by thephonograph. I have never heard either in person, and FR graphs do not tell the whole story!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> No no, I said they look identical up to 16k *according to the FR graphs* posted by thephonograph. I have never heard either in person, and FR graphs do not tell the whole story!.



Yea that's interesting. Graphs are pretty much identical but both iems are completely different in sound and character


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 12, 2018)

I just bought the Silver/Purple different cable ZSN because of the visual differences from Gearbest.  I should have skipped the Black in the first place and just bought this one but now I'm waiting for both in the mail.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is that review whole lot of fluff and approximately 2 sentences of actual useful info?
> 
> He even says the ZSN cable is the same cable used on every KZ??
> 
> ...


+1 I saw many inconsistentcies, which I personally don't agree with myself. ...that makes two of us!


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm assuming you switched the wires between both ear pieces to see the differences too and this is that calculation?


Yes, I did the switcharoo!...since I was not hearing the same thing on both.


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 13, 2018)

Slater said:


> No no, I said they look identical up to 16k *according to the FR graphs* posted by thephonograph. I have never heard either in person, and FR graphs do not tell the whole story!


+1 I'm sure it should sound different. From what I'm seeing, 5,000hz and above fluctuates totally different from each other giving the edge to the ZSN from not dipping so low at the highest peak.

...Then again, I don't go by graphs alone as well.


----------



## 1clearhead

Does anyone here own both the ZSN and the ES4 to compare?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> Does anyone here own both the ZSN and the ES4 to compare?


I will in a couple weeks.  But it will be a layman's comparison.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

The graph of the ES4's look like a lazy man's sound signature. The ZSN's looks a bit more sophisticated.


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> Does anyone here own both the ZSN and the ES4 to compare?


when slow-boat arrives


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is that review whole lot of fluff and approximately 2 sentences of actual useful info?
> 
> He even says the ZSN cable is the same cable used on every KZ??
> 
> ...



sums up phonograph's "reviews", really.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is that review whole lot of fluff and approximately 2 sentences of actual useful info?


Exactly! +1 Basically useless review...


Slater said:


> On a positive note, the most useful thing I took away? The *ZSN is basically identical to the ES4 according to the FR graph* (except above 16k, which is beyond my hearing limit as well as being unreliable to measure).


...same here. Not sure about phonograph measuring tolerances and consistency but that raises question to me - why so few KZ fans got ES4 and so little praise over them?
I know only few users who gave them positive feedback "as best tuned KZ IEM" (me too). Of course ES4 has its faults like some midbass bloom and some overall muddyness ...graphs don`t tell everything.
Still, ES4 should be praised more as very well tuned KZ. Too many KZ "fanboys" run for nicer looks and they praise more what they got.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

I really just appreciate thephotograph.net more for their coupons than their reviews lol.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> No no, I said they look identical up to 16k *according to the FR graphs* posted by thephonograph. I have never heard either in person, and FR graphs do not tell the whole story!





LaughMoreDaily said:


> The graph of the ES4's look like a lazy man's sound signature. The ZSN's looks a bit more sophisticated.



Completely different. ZSN is a "new" zst but ES4 have a sound totally different ( no or little sub bass,  big mid bass)


----------



## CoiL

TechnoidFR said:


> ... ES4 have a sound totally different ( *no or little sub bass*,  big mid bass)


I find it well prominent and there when music has it. You got bad seal, wrong tips?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> when slow-boat arrives


I got airmail, cheapskate.


----------



## TechnoidFR

KZ ZST : My first iem after Xiaomi Piston and a revelation ! Today is old bacause they don't have details compare to last kz. But great tuned with loud sub bass, awesome scene and very good clarity. ZSN is now better than this zst 

KZ ATE : my only disappointment. not very coherent, too bassy, too dark, weird fit

KZ ZS5v1 : Great iem with great clarity. less sub bass than zst and better treble. Little dark but great detail, but scene more intimate. fit is not very confort

KZ ZS6 : One of my prefered iem. Metal, design and awesome. Clarity and detail monster when they came out. They are always awesome but toot hot treble for me ( you can take the habit after 100h ). but the scene, the detail WOW. today i don't use them, i prefer as10. In same signature you have the excellent  BQEYZ KC2 without hot treble

KZ ZSR : Interesting but hot treble like zs6 ( but less ). It's just zs6 with less treble and more bass but too near to be interesting for me. The price can do the difference

KZ ES4 :  For me is not for audiophile or research of the better iem. Plus for the beginner which want an appreciate iem at cheap price. no sub bass, bass too dry, not very detail. good iem but not very 

KZ ZS10 : Like ZS6 but totally different. Great bass/ sub bass with punchy voice. low med is very thin. Excellent for fun metal and electro ! i love them when i want very fun sound. and treble is dark but very detailed

KZ AS10 : Just my PREFERED iem for the moment. Great tuned, very very detailed like zs6 but not hot treble. Good balanced sound  and medium is less thin than other KZ. Excellent clarity, detail, scene, coherence. Just perfect for all situation for me. Highly recommmended 

KZ ED9(v2) : A big surprise for the price. Nozzle interchangeable system. Choice between neutral or bassy sound. Great clarity and detail, the new driver is very awesome ! better than zst for exemple. real good sound for "classic" wearing iem and beginning or offer a good iem for little price.

KZ ZSN : A replacement of ZST. Better speed and detail,better clarity, more coherent scene ( zst have big stereo, but little toot big i think ). same sound with higher treble but not piercing sibilance. The quality is very awesome too because very a lot of detail. Sub bass is always awesome than zst and it's the very goos particularity of zst

KZ ED15 : Other deception. Big bass and high treble but mids is very too recessed. sounds weird, and is very heavy...

KZ ZSE : The most cheap dual driver. 5€ but for 5€ is correct. In comparison too zst or ed9. not very detail, clarity is ok, scene is very intimate, bassy sound good for rap or electro. if you are very limited it's good choice

KZ ZSA : very little iem. good for little hear. Far better than es4 for me. Loud bass and great detail and clarity. great scene.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> Completely different. ZSN is a "new" zst but ES4 have a sound totally different ( no or little sub bass,  big mid bass)


I could never use my ZST because I kept getting a loud air pressure popping sound in my ears when I put it in/tried to use it.  It's the only IEM I've had problems with... maybe mine was defective?


----------



## TLDRonin

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I could never use my ZST because I kept getting a loud air pressure popping sound in my ears when I put it in/tried to use it.  It's the only IEM I've had problems with... maybe mine was defective?


Driver flex. Happens quite often with my ZS10.


----------



## TechnoidFR

CoiL said:


> I find it well prominent and there when music has it. You got bad seal, wrong tips?



same like all KZ. with stock tips. my hear is not the problem, it's sure. i have not or very little sub bass. bass is very more proeminent


----------



## Mellowship

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsn-review/
> 
> ...



I posted that flash sale info yesterday! Got one myself....


----------



## Mellowship (Nov 13, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Driver flex. Happens quite often with my ZS10.



Foam tips will, in many cases, lower the air pressure upon insertion.

A better alternative to avoid driver flex is to get a AS10, BA10...

The most flex-prone IEM I have is a AWEI ES600i. It is a fun-sounding immitation of some SoundMagic. Nice flat cable, great silky sound signature. But the flex is strong with that one. Even when inserted, if I touch it just a little bit to adjust, the membrane will crackle wildly!

Edit: the real reason I spent 4 euros on that AWEI was to get the best earphone pouch ever! They now have it for sale on AE. This wonder zipped pouch has a pocket where a Benjie s5 fits snuggly and on the inside I can easilly put a ZS5. Highly recommended. Thank me later.


----------



## TLDRonin

Mellowship said:


> Foam tips will, in many cases, lower the air pressure upon insertion.
> 
> A better alternative to avoid driver flex is to get a AS10, BA10...


Yeah thats what I did with my Z5000 before I lost it. I just dislike using foams on the ZS10 and over ear IEMs in general.


----------



## Mellowship

TLDRonin said:


> Yeah thats what I did with my Z5000 before I lost it. I just dislike using foams on the ZS10 and over ear IEMs in general.



In most cases I also dislike using foams on over-ear IEMs. Take the ZS3, you have to press and roll the foam tip, to insert it fast before the foam rebounds and then to give that slight rotation in order for the shell to sit perfectly on your ear. And then, to push the cables over your ears. Many times I stalled in the middle of the street, changing my belongings from hand to hand, just to take care of the correct fitting... Or when someone insists on talking to you, and you have to take a shell off to insert it again. 
The only foams I can use with ZS3,4 are a smaller size harder foams that I can push in and rotate without pressing and rolling. 
I don't have that problem with the ZS5 though. Maybe because it has a shorter nozzle or because it doesn't need to fit as snuggly as the ZS3,4...  or to rotate to its "natural" place...


----------



## randomnin (Nov 13, 2018)

Slater said:


> No no, I said they look identical up to 16k *according to the FR graphs* posted by thephonograph. I have never heard either in person, and FR graphs do not tell the whole story!


Well, they did measure the cyan one, not the allegedly different sounding purple one, but I liked ES4 better than ED16, so a more comfortable ES4 with slightly more prominent highs is a win to me. Also, if I remember correctly, antdroid's graph of the purple one was similar to this, except the bass boost was nearly non-existent and flatter. Anyway, I ordered the purple ZSN and a black ZS4, and hope that the great sound quality difference between the two won't make me walk around with shiny IEM  Isolation and comfort will also play a role here, but, please, ZS4 win!


----------



## randomnin (Nov 13, 2018)

TLDRonin said:


> Yeah thats what I did with my Z5000 before I lost it. I just dislike using foams on the ZS10 and *over ear IEMs* in general.


Is the part I bolded an oxymoron?  Or just conflicting terms?


----------



## TLDRonin

randomnin said:


> Is the part I bolded an oxymoron?  Or just conflicting terms?


I was talking about IEMs that require you to run the cable "over your ear", rather than cable down.  I had a gut feeling someone would call me out for that but I'm pretty sure I've seen others reference it that way.


----------



## randomnin

TLDRonin said:


> I was talking about IEMs that require you to run the cable "over your ear", rather than cable down.  I had a gut feeling someone would call me out for that but I'm pretty sure I've seen others reference it that way.


Well, sorry about the inconvenience then, but, if that's the case, we have confusing terminology here. Or a case of me being unreasonably slow.


----------



## Mellowship

My take on the KZs I have (or had), in decreasing order of preference:

AS10: formidable in almost everything. I wish the shell was finished better or had different materials in order to better translate the intrinsic qualities of this all-BA IEMs. Fast snappy lively bass, great resolving mids, silky but present highs, an imaging that is somewhat in-your-face presentation but, with some concentration, it gets easy to focus. The most "different" KZ of them all, with a truly new sound signature. Not very source-demanding, but sounds better with good DAPs/AMPs.

ZS5v1: big soundstage, great presentation, gets congested easily with weaker sources but scales up incredibly well with good amps and DAPs. Great textures on the bass - it's about quality here - but has enough sub-bass to enjoy too. The mids need power to excite, and when they do, male voices come alive. Treble is best tamed with foam tips to avoid sibilance.

ZS4: snappy happy strong fun bass with a great range and reduced bleed on other frequencies. As a result, the mids, although recessed, are present and very resolving. Treble needs foam tips as it is sometimes piercing. Fit, comfort and isolation are top-notch. 

ATE: it's still up here with the big brothers. The old ATE (first version) has such a personality that it is not easy to forget. It is "human" in its flaws and qualities. The female voices are rendered with the right timbre. Bass is always present, although for some tracks it gets messy. Treble is rolled off but still there, still making it's point. The "analogic" nature of the ATE is something I still value. The cable is rubbery and sticky.

ZS3: not every ZS3, but the first version, mate finish, without the foam in the nozzle, with stainless steel grilles, with copper KZ cable and with the perfect silicone large tips from Rock Zyrcon. This is the only way they will sound great, although V-shaped. Strong, thumping bass. Shy mids. In-your-face treble. Great soundstage. Great comfort. Great isolation. Some fun to carry around. Original cable is bad. They need low impedance source with lots of power. Don't even think of connecting it to the KZ BT modules. They will become turds. 

IE80: the wildcard. Very well built imitations of the Senns. The bass rocker really works and raises low frequencies by some small notches when turned clockwise. Easily congested with louder music, but very "elegant" with less stressed environments. Mids are crystal clear. Original cable had inverted poles - had to buy a third-party Sennheiser-plug cable. Fit is a mess, only possible with foam tips or with shallow insertion wide silicones. I really like the IE80, but they are not for everyone.

ZST: I wish I could love them more. Never really had the chance to profit from their signature. Everytime I listened to them I had the feeling of missing something. Maybe it was because I never liked the faux-carbon printing on the shells. Maybe they never got along with my FiiO X3II. But then I painted them shells black and use them with the KZ BT cable and they are a lot of fun. 

ED9: (with the golden nozzles, obviously) are great. A heavy chunk of metal, beatifully finished and with a great relaxed sound signature. Not as "magic" as the ATE, but still with that "analogic" lushness. A very good implementation of a single dynamic driver indeed. 

ZS3: later version, Slater-modded to remove the foam and grille. Even with the mods - which indeed made them slightly better, they don't stand a chance to the older ZS3. More V-shaped, slightly hollow presentation. 

ZSE: forward mids. Good soundstage. Easily congested treble. OK bass. Bad isolation. Cable microphonics - a lot. Nice vintage mid-80's looks though!

EDR2: well built until the back grille falls off. Great textured bass. Sticky cable. A great and fun signature and cheap enough to be a great introduction gift to those who don't know the brand. Price/performance, these rule!

EDSE: like the EDR2, almost the same sound signature but with more intrusive bass that makes them sound less defined. 

ED7: (large shell) woodies goodies, with a one-note bass. They are detailed in the mids, if you can ear them... I always look at them and think about that silky wooden sound, but then I put my VJJB or DZAT and easily forget the ED7 exist. They are not bad at all, but will not get lots of use... 

ATR: dull. Gave them away. Linear? No. Dull. 

HDS1: very small, a problem to get them to stay in my large ears. Had to wear them upside down with cable behind the ear. Weird sound signature. Mids too upfront. Bass with low texture. Wife wears them at the gym with Sansa player. Not my favourite microdriver... 

ED12: the worst of them all. Hollow annoying mids that covered the whole spectrum. Very badly built. Mine had the colour codes inverted, with red to the left and blue? (it was purple...) to the right. Shell cover was not fixed well. Had to glue it down with a dab of epoxy. Awfull experience in every aspect.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 13, 2018)

TechnoidFR said:


> same like all KZ. with stock tips. my hear is not the problem, it's sure. *i have not or very little sub bass.* bass is very more proeminent


Well... the problem is still Your hearing or bad fit with stock tips. Probably latter one. ES4 definitely has more than enough sub-bass. It doesn`t extend very far but sub-bass is certainly there.
Listen to _NIN - Hesistation marks_ , sub-bass is there.


Mellowship said:


> My take on the KZs I have (or had), in decreasing order of preference:
> ZS5v1: big soundstage, great presentation, gets congested easily with weaker sources but scales up incredibly well with good amps and DAPs. Great textures on the bass - it's about quality here - but has enough sub-bass to enjoy too. The mids need power to excite, and when they do, male voices come alive. Treble is best tamed with foam tips to avoid sibilance.


I also listened to my ZS5v1 today after long time listening with modded IT01 and... they still are the best KZ I have heard to date and sound actually eery similar to modded IT01 in general sound signature - but SQ due to graphene DD is another level with IT01 - much more detailed and more coherent. But v1 excels in soundstage size being more "holographic" and tad more stretched into width.
But I have to note again that I`m powering my v1 with 80mA/3V per channel - it need loads of juice to sound fantastic, I mean FANTASTIC! ;P


----------



## Mellowship

CoiL said:


> Well... the problem is still Your hearing or bad fit with stock tips. Probably latter one. ES4 definitely has more than enough sub-bass. It doesn`t extend very far but sub-bass is certainly there.
> Listen to _NIN - Hesistation marks_ , sub-bass is there.
> 
> I also listened to my ZS5v1 today after long time listening with modded IT01 and... they still are the best KZ I have heard to date and sound actually eery similar to modded IT01 in general sound signature - but SQ due to graphene DD is another level with IT01 - much more detailed and more coherent. But v1 excels in soundstage size being more "holographic" and tad more stretched into width.
> But I have to note again that I`m powering my v1 with 80mA/3V per channel - it need loads of juice to sound fantastic, I mean FANTASTIC! ;P


I hesitated when I put the AS10 on top of the ZS5v1. I think it was because of the novelty. They are different flavours of KZ.


----------



## loomisjohnson

ShakyJake said:


> Looks matter. One of my favorites, the c631 (Joyplus/Timmkoo/Estron) still makes me cringe when I put it on. But it sounds so good....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i've actually gotten used to the c631. however, i still can't abide the urbanfun, which has that ridiculous juvenile logo and horrible green color--as a result i rarely pull it out of the drawer despite excellent sonics. call me shallow.


----------



## loomisjohnson

DocHoliday said:


> Great post Loomis!
> 
> Here's my take:
> 
> ...


outstanding--now you got me curious about the ba10. if you want to do a temporary swap for obsessive completion's sake, lemme know.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

1clearhead said:


> Does anyone here own both the ZSN and the ES4 to compare?



I do. ES4 has quite a lot of low end. Its a bit loose and sloppy and bleeds quite a bit into the mids, which are natural and warm. Treble relative to the mids are balanced and a bit dark. The ES4 sounds really good to me for bass heavy genres, but things get to muddy when sped up. I know others describe ES4 diferently but I hear the IEM as a L. Overall presentation to me is slightly laid back and smooth. 

Basically the exact opposite of ZSN LOL


----------



## Deveraux

Deveraux said:


> Which size tips to get for zsn? T400?


Anybody?


----------



## 1clearhead

BadReligionPunk said:


> I do. ES4 has quite a lot of low end. Its a bit loose and sloppy and bleeds quite a bit into the mids, which are natural and warm. Treble relative to the mids are balanced and a bit dark. The ES4 sounds really good to me for bass heavy genres, but things get to muddy when sped up. I know others describe ES4 diferently but I hear the IEM as a L. Overall presentation to me is slightly laid back and smooth.
> 
> Basically the exact opposite of ZSN LOL


Really good to know! After reading other reviews outside of head-fi, I held back thinking exactly as you stated on their sound signature. Personally, I won't be getting the ES4. I have a stash of other models with a similar signature.

Thanks! ...Good looking out!


----------



## mbwilson111

Deveraux said:


> Anybody?



I am happy with the tips that came with my ZSN.


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 13, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I am happy with the tips that came with my ZSN.


+1 Me too...

...Never tried them with comply or foam tips, yet.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> +1 Me too...
> 
> ...Never tried them with comply or foam tips, yet.



I have never liked foams or comply tips at all.


----------



## voicemaster

I use newbee foam tips from amazon for almost all my iems. No need to even squeeze them to put them into my ear.


----------



## TechnoidFR

mbwilson111 said:


> I am happy with the tips that came with my ZSN.



Yes, the new tips are very comfortable. Better than starline for me.


----------



## Mybutthurts

voicemaster said:


> I use newbee foam tips from amazon for almost all my iems. No need to even squeeze them to put them into my ear.



I use New Bee tips too, but can't get on with the foam tips in my ears.
But the large silicone tips are perfect for me on the AS10 & ZS10.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> Yes, the new tips are very comfortable. Better than starline for me.


Someone mentioned these Newbee tips at the end of 11/11 and I bought them for $5.99 on Aliexpress. They say the best tips they've used were Comply, Newbee and some other one I couldn't find on Ali.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...et-Pads-Earpiece-Earbuds-for/32826014061.html


----------



## TechnoidFR

I don't like this type of tips.


----------



## voicemaster

Mybutthurts said:


> I use New Bee tips too, but can't get on with the foam tips in my ears.
> But the large silicone tips are perfect for me on the AS10 & ZS10.



I used to use silicone tips, but after using foam tips for awhile, I find silicone tips can have quite air pressure on my ear and over time it become uncomfortable. That's why I mostly use foam tips as it doesn't have quite as much air pressure as silicone tips.


----------



## voicemaster

I am using the foam tips that came from it01 for my ZSN. It has this shiny finish to it as opposed to mate finish on newbee foam tips.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 13, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> outstanding--now you got me curious about the ba10. if you want to do a temporary swap for obsessive completion's sake, lemme know.



Thanks, Loomis. 

Yeah, the only reason the BA10 took the #3 spot and not the #2 spot is because you can't really crank them. Given their laid-back-but-detailed sound signature you'll tend to want to increase the volume so you can jam but the lift in the upper midrange reflecting on the aluminum housings is a "big no" unless you are wearing foamies.......and I really dislike foamies, so....

The BA10 offer an incredible amount of detail from the sub-bass to the upper midrange. If a track has slamming bass the BA10 nails it gloriously all the while delivering the vocals/midrange with absolute clarity and presence.

Case in point:



Spoiler









The BA10 is actually more balanced despite it's ability to deliver bass in spades. The last track will serve as a testament to my claim of the BA10 being more balanced. That low frequency BA is quite versatile.




The love or hate thing is understandable if one has small ears. The BA10 is just as polarizing as the ZS6 but like the ZS6 they are incredibly rewarding once you familiarize yourself with their strengths and you know how to mitigate or reign in any weaknesses, perceived or real [just like the ZS5v1 (low output impedance source with power), HDS3 (simply jump out of their skin with more power) and original ZS3 (eartip matching to pull off the balancing act )].

I might just take you up on the "swap-to-evaluate" doohickey. I've been curious about either the HiSenior B5+ or the Simgot EN700. Wondering if either of those is really all they are purported to be.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

randomnin said:


> Anyway, I ordered the purple ZSN and a black ZS4, and hope that the great sound quality difference between the two won't make me walk around with shiny IEM  Isolation and comfort will also play a role here, but, please, ZS4 win!


What made you choose the ZS4? Did you fall in love with ZS3 and wanted its sister?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mellowship said:


> Foam tips will, in many cases, lower the air pressure upon insertion.
> 
> A better alternative to avoid driver flex is to get a AS10, BA10...
> 
> Edit: the real reason I spent 4 euros on that AWEI was to get the best earphone pouch ever! They now have it for sale on AE. This wonder zipped pouch has a pocket where a Benjie s5 fits snuggly and on the inside I can easilly put a ZS5. Highly recommended. Thank me later.


I don't think driver flex is really a problem for me, it's only happened with the ZST. So I'll try foams on that one, thanks.

That AWEI pouch does look cool but can't find it on the English Ali site. I use the plastic KZ box for $2: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...torage-Bag-Headphone-Box-For/32737715281.html


----------



## randomnin

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What made you choose the ZS4? Did you fall in love with ZS3 and wanted its sister?


No, I only liked ZS3 for its isolation and comfort. If ZS4 brings above average audio qualities to the boot, I'll drop the IEM hunt until I get the resources to really splurge for once.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 13, 2018)

TechnoidFR said:


> Yes, the new tips are very comfortable. Better than starline for me.



Yes  the stock ZSN tips remind me a little of the Auvio tips. The Auvio does have a slightly wider opening.  However, Starlines are usually the first ones I try if I am having problems getting a fit with some iems because they do go in a little further and help me if the nozzles are a bit short.

The ZSN does not  have short nozzles so they work well for me with the installed tips.


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> Is it just me, or is that review whole lot of fluff and approximately 2 sentences of actual useful info?
> 
> He even says the ZSN cable is the same cable used on every KZ??
> 
> ...


The review of the Phonograph on the ZSN is so strange. Giving it a 9,1 and then saying it sounds almost totally like the KZ ES4 which is just a mediocre KZ in my books. Hope it WILL be a step up.


----------



## usuario74 (Nov 13, 2018)

Vestat said:


> ZSA are now available at aliexpress... does anybody knows the difference between KZ official Store and KZ Global store on aliexpress? The price is slightly different and the offer in both stores include the silver cable for limited time.



I would like to know the answer to this too, your post came up when I searched in google. Have read all posts after yours didn't find a reply...  I just bought KZ AS10 and some EDR at the Global store prices were a bit cheaper.
Not feeling very positive after reading this: http://community.anker.com/t/anker-global-store-vs-anker-official-store-on-aliexpress/61997

Any experiences from people who bought from the Global store?

BTW: My first post although have been reading a lot. Hi everyone.


----------



## Bartig

usuario74 said:


> I would like to know the answer to this too...  I just bought KZ AS10 and some EDR at the Global store prices were a bit cheaper.
> Not feeling very positive after reading this: http://community.anker.com/t/anker-global-store-vs-anker-official-store-on-aliexpress/61997
> 
> Any experiences from people who bought from the Global store?
> ...


Don't worry too much about it though. A good reference for the shop quality is the overall average score on AliExpress. I tend to skip shops with less than 95 percent satisfaction. However: don't worry, you will likely not get fakes or faulties.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Bartig said:


> The review of the Phonograph on the ZSN is so strange. Giving it a 9,1 and then saying it sounds almost totally like the KZ ES4 which is just a mediocre KZ in my books. Hope it WILL be a step up.



I sounds very different from the ES4. Don't worry about it. Others have said it sounds nigh identical to ZST which is also bullocks.


----------



## eclein

Wow, got a correct KZ cable for my ZS5’s today and man does it sound sweet. Its like I’m standing among the musicians as they perform each song .....very cool. 
I’m finally getting some TRN V80’s I ordered last month from AliExpress....due friday, they are harsh at first? Sibilance? Does taming it with Complys work?
I forgot how much fun this hobby can be!!


----------



## Detectit (Nov 13, 2018)

KZ is makes good IEM's for sure... Have several of them.
But as time goes by they have up-ed their prices... And it's not as cheap Chi-Fi as it was. Look at the AS10....havent bought it but than again.... The big bang for buck... Yes it's still there... But lesser than it was...who cares about a premium box?
Let's not talk about AB-10 again 15 bucks more expansive.
Personally.... I have scrapped the of the list of Cheap Chi-Fi



**rant over**


----------



## DocHoliday

Detectit said:


> KZ is makes good IEM's for sure... Have several of them.
> But as time goes by they have up-ed their prices... And it's not as cheap Chi-Fi as it was. Look at the AS10....havent bought it but than again.... The big bang for buck... Yes it's still there... But lesser than it was...who cares about a premium box?
> Let's not talk about AB-10 again 15 bucks more expansive.
> Personally.... I have scrapped the of the list of Cheap Chi-Fi
> ...



The KZ BA10 is in fact a KZ and ALL KZ's can and will be discussed on this thread.

If the BA10, AS10 or ZS10 are outside of your budget then feel free to experience one of the many KZ models available. 90% of them are $20 or less. This list isn't exhaustive but here you go.



Spoiler



B9's blog - The Contraptionist (required reading for the unintiated)!
https://thecontraptionist.blog/category/knowledge-zenith/

EDR1 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-edr1-in-ear-monitor.22987/
EDR2 - https://www.amazon.com/review/RWFUWN0QH5ZP1
ED3 "Perfection" - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed3-perfection.22988/
ED3 "Acme" - XXX
ED4 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed4.21296/reviews
ED7 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/reviews
ED8 - XXX
ED9 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ed9-tunning-nozzles-in-ear-headphones.20807/
ED10 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed10.22990/
ED15 - XXX
ED16 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ed16.23179/
ES3 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/
ES4 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-es4.23181/reviews
HDS3 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-hds3.23017/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/B01EJHLOPE/R7E4KEB1RJ88Y?ref=pf_ov_at_pdctrvw_srp
ATR - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews
ATE - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ate-in-ear-monitors.21174/
HDS1 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bi...ic-pronunciation-ear-headphones-silver.21143/
ZSA - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsa.23180/reviews#review-20770
ZST - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zst.22435/
ZSR - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/
ZS3 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz...et-bass-earbuds-with-microphone.21763/reviews
ZS5 - https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> The KZ BA10 is in fact a KZ and ALL KZ's can and will be discussed on this thread.
> 
> If the BA10, AS10 or ZS10 are outside of your budget then feel free to experience one of the many KZ models available. 90% of them are $20 or less. This list isn't exhaustive but here you go.
> 
> [/SPOILER]



BA10 is still, imo, probably the best sounding KZ out there, only hampered by it's wack shell. That's regardless of whether or not it's signature lines up with personal preferences, of which mine has me preferring the sonically inferior AS10 (dat bass dough). Opinion supported as I spent a fair bit of time a/bing them with the Tenhz P4 Pro while finishing up that review today. To my ears, the BA10 is the more refined and mature sounding product, even if it isn't as well balanced which not everyone wants anyway.


----------



## hakuzen

measured dc resistance (mΩ) of ZSN stock cable (with mic). copper color.
L:395   R:*1013*   LGnd:401   RGnd:647
except Right measurement, it's the most conductive cable from KZ stock ones.
i wonder about 0.6Ω difference between left and right. bad solder?
will measure other units when they arrive.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

usuario74 said:


> I would like to know the answer to this too, your post came up when I searched in google. Have read all posts after yours didn't find a reply...  I just bought KZ AS10 and some EDR at the Global store prices were a bit cheaper.
> Not feeling very positive after reading this: http://community.anker.com/t/anker-global-store-vs-anker-official-store-on-aliexpress/61997
> 
> Any experiences from people who bought from the Global store?
> ...



Hello friend, welcome to the rabbit hole 

I have purchased from both and both are excellent IMO. Both get the product shipped out ASAP almost everytime.


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> BA10 is still, imo, probably the best sounding KZ out there, only hampered by it's wack shell. That's regardless of whether or not it's signature lines up with personal preferences, of which mine has me preferring the sonically inferior AS10 (dat bass dough). Opinion supported as I spent a fair bit of time a/bing them with the Tenhz P4 Pro while finishing up that review today. To my ears, the BA10 is the more refined and mature sounding product, even if it isn't as well balanced which not everyone wants anyway.



Have to get my hands on an AS10! 

If it's more entertaining than the BA10 then it's well worth the FULL asking price. 

Looking forward to your P4 Pro review as well.


----------



## toddy0191 (Nov 13, 2018)

antdroid said:


> Here's KZ ZSN Diffuse Field Compensation using miniDSP EARS.





Slater said:


> No no, I said they look identical up to 16k *according to the FR graphs* posted by thephonograph. I have never heard either in person, and FR graphs do not tell the whole story!





TechnoidFR said:


> Completely different. ZSN is a "new" zst but ES4 have a sound totally different ( no or little sub bass,  big mid bass)


 
@antdroid  i think your graph matches what I hear more closely with a peak at around 11khz.

Never liked the reviews from Phonograph as they seem to contradict themselves constantly.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

hakuzen said:


> measured dc resistance (mΩ) of ZSN stock cable (with mic). copper color.
> L:395   R:*1013*   LGnd:401   RGnd:647
> except Right measurement, it's the most conductive cable from KZ stock ones.


What do you mean, "it's the most conductive cable from KZ stock ones." 

Does that mean its better, equal to, or the only company doing cables as good as KZ?


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> Have to get my hands on an AS10!
> 
> If it's more entertaining than the BA10 then it's well worth the FULL asking price.
> 
> Looking forward to your P4 Pro review as well.



Imo the BA10 is just a more refined, balanced AS10. I love the AS10's low end though. Think KZ did a really good job tuning that BA.

P4 Pro review now up if you want to take a gander: Head-fi / The Contraptionist


----------



## antdroid

toddy0191 said:


> @antdroid  i think your graph matches what I hear more closely with a peak at around 11khz.
> 
> Never liked the reviews from Phonograph as they seem to contradict themselves constantly.



FYI the graph from Phonograph is "raw" and the one I posted was compensated.

Here is a raw L/R graph of KZ ZSN


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> My take on the KZs I have (or had), in decreasing order of preference:
> 
> AS10: formidable in almost everything. I wish the shell was finished better or had different materials in order to better translate the intrinsic qualities of this all-BA IEMs. Fast snappy lively bass, great resolving mids, silky but present highs, an imaging that is somewhat in-your-face presentation but, with some concentration, it gets easy to focus. The most "different" KZ of them all, with a truly new sound signature. Not very source-demanding, but sounds better with good DAPs/AMPs.
> 
> ...



So true about the ZS3.

This was its downfall. When underpowered it doesn’t sound good. On the Bluetooth cable, don’t even try.

But feed it massive power from an amp, along with the foam mod, and it’s really not as bad as people make it out to be.


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 13, 2018)

Detectit said:


> KZ is makes good IEM's for sure... Have several of them.
> But as time goes by they have up-ed their prices... And it's not as cheap Chi-Fi as it was. Look at the AS10....havent bought it but than again.... The big bang for buck... Yes it's still there... But lesser than it was...who cares about a premium box?
> Let's not talk about AB-10 again 15 bucks more expansive.
> Personally.... I have scrapped the of the list of Cheap Chi-Fi
> ...



U forgot kz zsn for less than $20. And it's not like they only produce as10, ba10 and zs10 that cost more than their other offerings.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> @antdroid  i think your graph matches what I hear more closely with a peak at around 11khz.
> 
> Never liked the reviews from Phonograph as they seem to contradict themselves constantly.



As someone pointed out, it seems to be less a review site and more a site to pick up coupon codes (which phonograph gets affiliate credit for).

Whether that’s good or bad depends on your point of view.


----------



## 1clearhead

toddy0191 said:


> @antdroid  i think your graph matches what I hear more closely with a peak at around 11khz.
> 
> *Never liked the reviews from Phonograph as they seem to contradict themselves constantly.*


+1 Yup!


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 13, 2018)

antdroid said:


> FYI the graph from Phonograph is "raw" and the one I posted was compensated.
> 
> Here is a raw L/R graph of KZ ZSN


All this positive outcome from the ZSN makes me want to buy the Black on Black! ...Then, I'll have all three color ZSN's!
This is surely for me a bad habit.


----------



## antdroid

The phonograph site is hard to read for me personally. Too many ads strung across the the actual content that I cant even tell what is an Ad and what is a photo that's part of the review. The only thing I end up doing is scrolling to the FR measurements.


----------



## antdroid

1clearhead said:


> All this positive outcome from the ZSN makes me want the Black on Black! ...Then, I'll have all three ZSN's!
> This is surely for me a bad habit.



While I am not a big believer in cables making a significant impact (unless they really are terrible cables), just for reference, the KZ I measured is the normal black/clear one. I measured with my own balanced 2.5mm cables as I do with every measurement unless cables are not detachable.


----------



## shockdoc

Just ordered my ZSN's from Gear Best for 13 bucks and change. ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN!


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What do you mean, "it's the most conductive cable from KZ stock ones."
> 
> Does that mean its better, equal to, or the only company doing cables as good as KZ?


zsn stock cable is made by kz, isn't it?
compared with other kz stock cables (made by kz), this kz zsn stock cable uses better wire, so it had the chance to be the most conductive from kz stock cables (made by kz), if solders were right.
i've not mentioned other brands, i'm talking about stock kz cables (made by kz, or at least, distributed by kz).


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> The phonograph site is hard to read for me personally. Too many ads strung across the the actual content that I cant even tell what is an Ad and what is a photo that's part of the review. The only thing I end up doing is scrolling to the FR measurements.



Ever been to the bottom of the Aliexpress coupon page on the phonograph? There’s a lot of stuff down there that’s, ummm, not audio related in the least bit.


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> Ever been to the bottom of the Aliexpress coupon page on the phonograph? There’s a lot of stuff down there that’s, ummm, not audio related in the least bit.



LOL good thing I am at home and not at work


----------



## fedcas

cacio said:


> look what i have found
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...pter-For-SE535-UE900/1825606_32955022313.html
> 
> ...



Hi guys... mmh things are getting complicated... I came here to find help and choose between the BT3 and the BT10... and now another one  well, actually more than another one :s I've seen also KZ has a new cable and other brands are also proposing their BT cables...

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/119089/search?origin=y&SearchText=bluetooth+cable

So... which one should I get (up to 20 USD)? a few months ago I was suggested the trn, but nobody had tried the BT10 yet so I decided to wait and see if there was any comparison with the BT3. But also the new KZ and that **** BT2 maybe...


----------



## antdroid

I ordered a MMCX and a 2-pin version of the TRN BT20. Will report back on one of these head-fi threads about it. Probably be the Discovery thread or the sub-$100 one since I dont even listen to KZ IEMs much.


----------



## toddy0191

antdroid said:


> FYI the graph from Phonograph is "raw" and the one I posted was compensated.
> 
> Here is a raw L/R graph of KZ ZSN



I see, that explains things.

That just spurred a marathon reading session about raw Vs compensated curves and I now feel a little more enlightened and less of an ignoramus.

Thanks!


----------



## antdroid (Nov 13, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> I see, that explains things.
> 
> That just spurred a marathon reading session about raw Vs compensated curves and I now feel a little more enlightened and less of an ignoramus.
> 
> Thanks!



Cool. Just be aware of compensation curves because most of them dont actually tell you HOW they are compensated which is the most important thing to know. That's why RAW is useful, but its hard to read -- but at least its relatively standard as long as you know the limitations of the measurement device. (my MiniDSP EARS definitely has some for Over-Ear headphones and some for IEMs)

For MiniDSP EARS "Compensation" for IEM, they provide a calibrated dataset that is compensated using Diffuse Field compensation with the Etymotics ER4 IEM as the standard. Some other compensation curves may use the Harman Target curve, which also can vary since they release new versions of it every couple years. The most current for IEMs (and only one for IEMs) is 2017. The big difference between IDF (old standard) and Harman IEM curve is the harman curve has a 3-8 dB bass boost but shares similarities in mids/treble.

More fun reading: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response


----------



## toddy0191

antdroid said:


> Cool. Just be aware of compensation curves because most of them dont actually tell you HOW they are compensated which is the most important thing to know. That's why RAW is useful, but its hard to read -- but at least its relatively standard as long as you know the limitations of the measurement device. (my MiniDSP EARS definitely has some for Over-Ear headphones and some for IEMs)
> 
> For MiniDSP EARS "Compensation" for IEM, they provide a calibrated dataset that is compensated using Diffuse Field compensation with the Etymotics ER4 IEM as the standard. Some other compensation curves may use the Harman Target curve, which also can vary since they release new versions of it every couple years. The most current for IEMs (and only one for IEMs) is 2017. The big difference between IDF (old standard) and Harman IEM curve is the harman curve has a 3-8 dB bass boost but shares similarities in mids/treble.
> 
> More fun reading: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response


 

Thanks! Well the compensation You're using seems to match what I'm hearing with ZSN.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> All this positive outcome from the ZSN makes me want to buy the Black on Black! ...Then, I'll have all three color ZSN's!
> This is surely for me a bad habit.


The ZSN is that good? All three colors... wow.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

hakuzen said:


> zsn stock cable is made by kz, isn't it?
> compared with other kz stock cables (made by kz), this kz zsn stock cable uses better wire, so it had the chance to be the most conductive from kz stock cables (made by kz),


I can tell by appearance the purple ZSN copper cable is better but is the dark wired cable better as well?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> All this positive outcome from the ZSN makes me want to buy the Black on Black! ...Then, I'll have all three color ZSN's!
> This is surely for me a bad habit.


I think you mean, "a bad idea."


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZSN is that good? All three colors... wow.


Yea, one for the gym, one for casual use, the other to lounge around the house...


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my silver/purple ZSN. I can say the cable is nicer than my black/black ZSN. The bass for some reason is a little bit tighter than the black one when I first listened to it. And also less sibilance than the black one (first listening). I even use the original silicone tip right now instead of foam tips that I usually use. I don't know if the cable makes these little differences or not, but I am loving the build and sound quality of both the IEM and cable.


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 14, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I can tell by appearance the purple ZSN copper cable is better but is the dark wired cable better as well?


With the darker cable the ZSN sounds slightly warmer with more bass providing more of a v-shape signature. The lighter copper cable sounds more balanced.


----------



## blur.png

i just read someone said that the es4 is dry, no sub bass not detailed, but it felt detailed to me and pretty bassy (zs6 bass loses to this, while keeping the highs detailed without the piercing)
ive read that some says the ZSA sounds better than es4 but some also says its sibilant and piercing at times
also about the AS10 and BA10, i've heard some says that the BA10 the best tuned kz but some says is super bright & sibilant while some says the AS10 is a better tuned & warmer one
and the ZSN cable thing, dark cable - bass/V shaped, brighter cable - balanced, can anyone proof this ?

now im confused which one is correct as everyone says different things about the iems


----------



## KevDzn

For the ZSN, I think the difference between the black/cyan and the purple ones are more than the cable. The purple ones has 'aluminium alloy' nozzle and the black/cyan has 'metal copper' nozzle.


----------



## Le Stef

Mellowship said:


> Foam tips will, in many cases, lower the air pressure upon insertion.
> 
> A better alternative to avoid driver flex is to get a AS10, BA10...
> 
> ...


LOL, nice move for the pouch! I must say though, AWEI is a highly underrated company and some of their IEMs sound fantastic; before I bought the KZ-ES4, I was using the AWEI ES900i (way better than ES600i in my opinion) and I must say, once I got the ES4 I was expecting better sound from the newer KZ hybrid vs the old Awei single DD, but the Awei, even though less detailed, seems to sound overall better.  Maybe it is because the ES900i are easier to drive and I listened to them mainly on a portable device.  I have to A/B them again, but I find the ES900i really good and with their aluminum casing and flat cable they are almost indestructible (3 years of daily, rough use and still running perfectly); and they cost $8-10 shipping included.
The ES4 is the first KZ I've tried so far, I have since then purchased a pair of ZSR and AS10. I hope they are both way better than the ES4. The wait is long!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> Just received my silver/purple ZSN. I can say the cable is nicer than my black/black ZSN. I don't know if the cable makes these little differences or not, but I am loving the build and sound quality of both the IEM and cable.


I think KZ is trying to put its expensive iems out of business so people buy the cheap ZSN.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Le Stef said:


> The ES4 is the first KZ I've tried so far, I have since then purchased a pair of ZSR and AS10. I hope they are both way better than the ES4. The wait is long!


The ZSR and AS10 better be better than the lowly ES4... it's cheap. I think I paid $12.75 for mine during 11/11 a year ago.


----------



## TechnoidFR

blur.png said:


> i just read someone said that the es4 is dry, no sub bass not detailed, but it felt detailed to me and pretty bassy (zs6 bass loses to this, while keeping the highs detailed without the piercing)
> ive read that some says the ZSA sounds better than es4 but some also says its sibilant and piercing at times
> also about the AS10 and BA10, i've heard some says that the BA10 the best tuned kz but some says is super bright & sibilant while some says the AS10 is a better tuned & warmer one
> and the ZSN cable thing, dark cable - bass/V shaped, brighter cable - balanced, can anyone proof this ?
> ...



 The problem is that the audio is rather subjective. With different tips, different ears etc can sometimes give different results.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> The problem is that the audio is rather subjective. With different tips, different ears etc can sometimes give different results.


True. I hope people give us feedback on the different tips they'll be using for the ZSN. I have Spinfits and Zircon tips and am awaiting Newbee foam tips and can do those when my ZSN arrive.


----------



## CoiL

voicemaster said:


> I used to use silicone tips, but after using foam tips for awhile, I find silicone tips can have quite air pressure on my ear and over time it become uncomfortable. That's why I mostly use foam tips as it doesn't have quite as much air pressure as silicone tips.


Air pressure? Your IEM doesn`t have air port holes? most KZ`s have and no issues with driver flex.
Or You mean by air pressure too strong pressure against ear-canal walls? Then switch to 1 size smaller tips.


hakuzen said:


> measured dc resistance (mΩ) of ZSN stock cable (with mic). copper color.
> L:395   R:*1013*   LGnd:401   RGnd:647
> except Right measurement, it's the most conductive cable from KZ stock ones.
> i wonder about 0.6Ω difference between left and right. bad solder?
> will measure other units when they arrive.


Wow, thats big difference. I hope my purple ZSN won`t have it. Will measure when I get mine and report back.


antdroid said:


> FYI the graph from Phonograph is "raw" and the one I posted was compensated.
> 
> Here is a raw L/R graph of KZ ZSN


I lately like to have a look @ rather RAW graphs than different compensations with different gear etc. Gives more perspective imo.


1clearhead said:


> With the darker cable the ZSN sounds slightly warmer with more bass providing more of a v-shape signature. The lighter copper cable sounds more balanced.


Then darker cable should have higher impedance than copper one.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

antdroid said:


> I ordered a MMCX and a 2-pin version of the TRN BT20. Will report back on one of these head-fi threads about it. Probably be the Discovery thread or the sub-$100 one since I dont even listen to KZ IEMs much.



Would be very interested to hear how it compares to the ES100 too, if you have the chance!


----------



## CoiL

If I get my wife setup and like ZSN... I might be getting cyan ZSN too for daily workhorse... but I`ll probably take copper cable for myself and give black one to wife to "save her hearing"


----------



## TechnoidFR

LaughMoreDaily said:


> True. I hope people give us feedback on the different tips they'll be using for the ZSN. I have Spinfits and Zircon tips and am awaiting Newbee foam tips and can do those when my ZSN arrive.



I use always ( or 99% ) stock tips. I don't like foam tips which change sound a lot for me ( and don't like comfort )


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I can tell by appearance the purple ZSN copper cable is better but is the dark wired cable better as well?


i only own zsn spc copper color stock, and silver color cables


----------



## revand

Are the T-500 Comply eartips work for KZ ZSN?
I couldn't find the ZSN on Comply's webpage.


----------



## loomisjohnson

toddy0191 said:


> @antdroid  i think your graph matches what I hear more closely with a peak at around 11khz.
> 
> Never liked the reviews from Phonograph as they seem to contradict themselves constantly.


commercial sites like the phonograph and audiobudget do have  informational value--they let you know what's coming out and, not incidentally, have beautiful photos. however, without imputing their sincerity i  do not give weight to their critical evaluations.


----------



## hakuzen

measured dc resistance of cable for kz zsn. spc 4 cores, silver color: 
(15) kz zsn spc 4c (silver color).................................607   630   653   648 mΩ
its conductivity is on par with best kz stock cables. it's not as high as some signals of stock copper color cable, but it's similar for every signal (stock copper color had 0.6Ω difference between left and right).


----------



## Mellowship

Le Stef said:


> LOL, nice move for the pouch! I must say though, AWEI is a highly underrated company and some of their IEMs sound fantastic; before I bought the KZ-ES4, I was using the AWEI ES900i (way better than ES600i in my opinion) and I must say, once I got the ES4 I was expecting better sound from the newer KZ hybrid vs the old Awei single DD, but the Awei, even though less detailed, seems to sound overall better.  Maybe it is because the ES900i are easier to drive and I listened to them mainly on a portable device.  I have to A/B them again, but I find the ES900i really good and with their aluminum casing and flat cable they are almost indestructible (3 years of daily, rough use and still running perfectly); and they cost $8-10 shipping included.
> The ES4 is the first KZ I've tried so far, I have since then purchased a pair of ZSR and AS10. I hope they are both way better than the ES4. The wait is long!



Only now I realized the pouch is no longer available in AE. But it is worth spending some USD 7 on eBay on a Awei that comes with it. It's a great accessory. 
I never got to buy the ES900 back then. I got the 800m and 600i, the Q35 and the two wooden IEMs, the Q5 and Q9. All perform way above their price range, and we are talking 5-8 USD. But fast forward a couple of years and, for the same price, KZ would offer much more! One interesting thing is that AWEI IEMs really don't scale well with better source. They are designed to be used with 2010 low-end DAPs, like Sansa Clips or Creative Zen Nanos... When connected with better sources, they will show their limitations. From the list above, only the 600i maintains its quality. Maybe the 900i goes the same way...
I don't own ES4 or ZSR, but I believe you'll find the AS10 a great IEM, with a stellar definition.


----------



## Mellowship

loomisjohnson said:


> commercial sites like the phonograph and audiobudget do have  informational value--they let you know what's coming out and, not incidentally, have beautiful photos. however, without imputing their sincerity i  do not give weight to their critical evaluations.


I tend to rely more on Audiobudget then on The Phonograph. I would recommend Phonograph for evaluating look and usability (fit, comfort, etc.) and Audiobudget for very general sound impressions. Use a grain of salt for both...


----------



## toddy0191

loomisjohnson said:


> commercial sites like the phonograph and audiobudget do have  informational value--they let you know what's coming out and, not incidentally, have beautiful photos. however, without imputing their sincerity i  do not give weight to their critical evaluations.



Very true; they are usually quick with KZ news.

I lost faith in their critical evaluation after their description of the ED15s being light on bass.


----------



## trumpethead

loomisjohnson said:


> having not heard the new zsn or the zs10/ba10 series, I've come to rank my kzs thusly:
> 1.   ZSR—enveloping and engaging, with smoother highs and more forward mids than previous hybrids; these stress fun and energy over transparency and seamless coherence.
> 
> 2A. ED16— better fitting than the similarly-tuned ZSR, with less oomph but better tamed bass.
> ...



I've been thinking the same thing, as I press the buy now button, very nice roundup btw.


----------



## fedcas

antdroid said:


> I ordered a MMCX and a 2-pin version of the TRN BT20. Will report back on one of these head-fi threads about it. Probably be the Discovery thread or the sub-$100 one since I dont even listen to KZ IEMs much.



thanks 
as for the bt3 vs bt10, is there any compariaon so far?


----------



## Francisk

fedcas said:


> thanks
> as for the bt3 vs bt10, is there any compariaon so far?


I purchased 2 units of MMCX BT10 from 2 different sellers on AliExpress and believe it or not...both are wired OUT OF PHASE connected to my TinAudio T2. My T2 is perfectly IN PHASE connected to all my MMCX cables including the stock cable. I'm either extremely unlucky or TRN produce batches of BT10 that are wired OUT OF PHASE.


----------



## voicemaster

CoiL said:


> Air pressure? Your IEM doesn`t have air port holes? most KZ`s have and no issues with driver flex.
> Or You mean by air pressure too strong pressure against ear-canal walls? Then switch to 1 size smaller tips.
> 
> None of my KZ has driver flex, it just the side of the ear wall that has build up pressure over time. And some seasons of the year where allergy is on the rise, I am more sensitive to silicone material than foam.


----------



## HungryPanda

Took my ZS10's out today and have to say I'm enjoying them a lot


----------



## voicemaster

I did comparison between ZSN silver/purple and black/black and I didn't find any differences in sound between the two when I am using my trn bt3 bluetooth. The only thing that make a difference is when you use their original cable (brown vs clear), I can hear some differences in bass and treble primarily. Bass is a little bit tighter with the clear cable, treble decay?? is a little bit longer especially in cymbal sound and a little bit more detail also. I am mostly using my trn bt3 cable anyway so this differences is not really deal breaker or something. 

 
The clear cable definitely is thicker than the brown.


----------



## jibberish

HungryPanda said:


> Took my ZS10's out today and have to say I'm enjoying them a lot


I'm pretty tempted to order the ZS10, I've read some recent impressions here that makes me think I'll like them a lot. Also the price has really dropped.

I should probably just listen to all the other new IEMs I recently bought, I suppose...


----------



## Zerohour88

blur.png said:


> i just read someone said that the es4 is dry, no sub bass not detailed, but it felt detailed to me and pretty bassy (zs6 bass loses to this, while keeping the highs detailed without the piercing)
> ive read that some says the ZSA sounds better than es4 but some also says its sibilant and piercing at times
> also about the AS10 and BA10, i've heard some says that the BA10 the best tuned kz but some says is super bright & sibilant while some says the AS10 is a better tuned & warmer one
> and the ZSN cable thing, dark cable - bass/V shaped, brighter cable - balanced, can anyone proof this ?
> ...



welcome to the world of audio

my advice, try out some of the models on your own and then verify them with some reviewers/users here, then pick out ones that matches your experience and/or preference. At the very least, you'll have a baseline to work with.


----------



## Slater

Francisk said:


> I purchased 2 units of MMCX BT10 from 2 different sellers on AliExpress and believe it or not...both are wired OUT OF PHASE connected to my TinAudio T2. My T2 is perfectly IN PHASE connected to all my MMCX cables including the stock cable. I'm either extremely unlucky or TRN produce batches of BT10 that are wired OUT OF PHASE.



My BT10 is wired perfectly. Although it’s a 2-pin, so even if it was wired out of phase, a simple flip of 1 side would solve it.

That sucks though. Hopefully the seller can get you squared away with an exchange.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

loomisjohnson said:


> commercial sites like the phonograph and audiobudget do have  informational value--they let you know what's coming out and, not incidentally, have beautiful photos. however, without imputing their sincerity i  do not give weight to their critical evaluations.


I think Audio Budget is very good at what it does. He does write in a way thats sincere so I think he is. However, when he posts codes for people to get a discount then you knows he's working with someone to either them more money or to get his pair for free.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> welcome to the world of audio
> 
> my advice, try out some of the models on your own and then verify them with some reviewers/users here, then pick out ones that matches your experience and/or preference. At the very least, you'll have a baseline to work with.


Do what he says. Just don't buy twenty $10-15 models like I did. Choose less models and different price brackets.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 14, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> Took my ZS10's out today and have to say I'm enjoying them a lot


Where was your first date? Do you have a selfie to prove it happened?


----------



## CoiL

Guys, is there anywhere ZSN copper cable on sale separatedly? Want to make one self made as it has nice cable material to play with.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> Guys, is there anywhere ZSN copper cable on sale separatedly? Want to make one self made as it has nice cable material to play with.


Bad question to ask as it just came out in the market.


----------



## randomnin (Nov 14, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What made you choose the ZS4? Did you fall in love with ZS3 and wanted its sister?





LaughMoreDaily said:


> Where was your first date? Do you have a selfie to prove it happened?


I'm beginning to sense a pattern here and am unsure what to make of it...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

randomnin said:


> I'm beginning to sense a pattern here and am unsure about what to make of it...


I'm a voyeur into peoples audio "sex" lives.


----------



## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> Guys, is there anywhere ZSN copper cable on sale separatedly? Want to make one self made as it has nice cable material to play with.


didn't find it yet, but sure it will show up soon.
however, if you are going to make your own cable, why not spending a little more in a better cable; for example, this acrolink wire, not so fancy, but good affordable quality:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32867317898.html
6N OCC pure copper 19 strands x 0.1mm / core. 2 cores (per signal) is equivalent to 22awg. you'll end with a ~90mΩ 1.2m of 6N occ copper cable..


----------



## khighly

Francisk said:


> I purchased 2 units of MMCX BT10 from 2 different sellers on AliExpress and believe it or not...both are wired OUT OF PHASE connected to my TinAudio T2. My T2 is perfectly IN PHASE connected to all my MMCX cables including the stock cable. I'm either extremely unlucky or TRN produce batches of BT10 that are wired OUT OF PHASE.


I also have a BT10 wired out of phase. I would be extremely weary of BT10's. It's not exactly as simple as flipping the connector as it's angled and won't stay over your ear at that point.

I ordered BT3, hopefully it doesn't come wired incorrectly.


----------



## DocHoliday

hakuzen said:


> didn't find it yet, but sure it will show up soon.
> however, if you are going to make your own cable, why not spending a little more in a better cable; for example, this acrolink wire, not so fancy, but good affordable quality:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32867317898.html
> 6N OCC pure copper 19 strands x 0.1mm / core. 2 cores (per signal) is equivalent to 22awg. you'll end with a ~90mΩ 1.2m of 6N occ copper cable..





If it's worth doing.......




 

.......might as well get the good stuff.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32814035621.html


----------



## Francisk

Slater said:


> My BT10 is wired perfectly. Although it’s a 2-pin, so even if it was wired out of phase, a simple flip of 1 side would solve it.
> 
> That sucks though. Hopefully the seller can get you squared away with an exchange.


I've received a full refund for my OUT OF PHASE BT10 from the 1st seller and a partial refund from the 2nd seller without returning the BT10. Strange thing is that all 3 units of my 2 pin BT3 are all working perfectly without the OUT OF PHASE issues, but then again there's no worries about 2 pin TR3 because I can simply reverse the pins on one of the cable if it's OUT OF PHASE. I can't do that with the MMCX. Anyway I just ordered another MMCX BT3 and hoping that I finally get an MMCX Bluetooth cable that is wired correctly.


----------



## Francisk

khighly said:


> I also have a BT10 wired out of phase. I would be extremely weary of BT10's. It's not exactly as simple as flipping the connector as it's angled and won't stay over your ear at that point.
> 
> I ordered BT3, hopefully it doesn't come wired incorrectly.


Yes, I'm also trying my luck and just purchased an MMCX BT3 and I'm hoping to receive the MMCX Bluetooth cable that's wired correctly this time. Looks like there's a batch of TRN BT10 (MMCX) that are wired OUT OF PHASE so for those planning to buy one, do inform the seller to check before shipping it.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I also have a BT10 wired out of phase. I would be extremely weary of BT10's. It's not exactly as simple as flipping the connector as it's angled and won't stay over your ear at that point.
> 
> I ordered BT3, hopefully it doesn't come wired incorrectly.



Oh yeah, good point. The molded ear guide would be going the wrong way.

I guess you could have 1 of your ears surgically reattached the opposite direction? Or it may be easier to simply buy a properly-wired cable...


----------



## voicemaster

What's the difference between BT3 and BT10?


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> What's the difference between BT3 and BT10?



BT3 = BT 4.1
BT10 = BT 4.2

BT10 has a slightly different neckband style.

That's honestly about it.


----------



## Slater

Francisk said:


> I purchased 2 units of MMCX BT10 from 2 different sellers on AliExpress and believe it or not...both are wired OUT OF PHASE connected to my TinAudio T2. My T2 is perfectly IN PHASE connected to all my MMCX cables including the stock cable. I'm either extremely unlucky or TRN produce batches of BT10 that are wired OUT OF PHASE.



BTW, to anyone who has an out-of-phase BT10, I took mine apart and it is not difficult to correct the problem if you are handy with a soldering iron. Even if you aren't, a local electronics repair shop (or even a local HeadFier) could resolder it for you.

Tomorrow I will work on a guide with photos.


----------



## antdroid

voicemaster said:


> I did comparison between ZSN silver/purple and black/black and I didn't find any differences in sound between the two when I am using my trn bt3 bluetooth. The only thing that make a difference is when you use their original cable (brown vs clear), I can hear some differences in bass and treble primarily. Bass is a little bit tighter with the clear cable, treble decay?? is a little bit longer especially in cymbal sound and a little bit more detail also. I am mostly using my trn bt3 cable anyway so this differences is not really deal breaker or something.
> 
> The clear cable definitely is thicker than the brown.



FYI - Here's the KZ ZSN Silver Cable that you can buy separately. It is thicker than the stock ZSN brown cable slightly. The braid is not as tightly wound too. 

I modded it already and put a 2.5mm balanced TRSS connector on it.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 15, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> didn't find it yet, but sure it will show up soon.
> however, if you are going to make your own cable, why not spending a little more in a better cable; for example, this acrolink wire, not so fancy, but good affordable quality:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32867317898.html
> 6N OCC pure copper 19 strands x 0.1mm / core. 2 cores (per signal) is equivalent to 22awg. you'll end with a ~90mΩ 1.2m of 6N occ copper cable..


I already have some acrolink wires and they are not very good, just OK. They don`t have elastic soft feel to them as being PVC coated.


DocHoliday said:


> If it's worth doing.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have that exact cable in Cu+Ag (8-core) and it measures around 0.5-0.6 Ohm impedance per core (without jack/IEM ends), not very good. Also it is rather stiff-sided PVC coating.
When using 1Cu+1Ag core together for one channel or ground, I got around 0.2-0.3 Ohm (my multimeter isn`t so HQ), which is quite good result though.
Using that cable with Neutrik NTP3RC jack with my ZS5v1.

ZSN copper looks very soft (haven`t tried it yet). I`m probably spoiled by IT01 cable


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 15, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I already have some acrolink wires and they are not very good, just OK. They don`t have elastic soft feel to them as being PVC coated.
> 
> I have that exact cable in Cu+Ag (8-core) and it measures around 0.5-0.6 Ohm impedance per core (without jack/IEM ends), not very good. Also it is rather stiff-sided PVC coating.
> When using 1Cu+1Ag core together for one channel or ground, I got around 0.2-0.3 Ohm (my multimeter isn`t so HQ), which is quite good result though.
> ...


yup, you are right. acrolink wire is budget, just ok. i think that most of the chi-cables we buy in ali, are made with acrolink wire (i'm locating the acrolink used wire of most of my cables, using appearance, size, and comparison of calculated with measured resistance).
about the link i provided, found same wire in another shop and composition didn't match. so avoid.
but if you want to get a better quality wire, price reaches the sky. got some up-occ neotech wire recently, to make some adapters (for measuring purposes); compared to some acrolink wire, and yes, you notice the difference in quality at first glance. but it was so expensive.. some shops have stocked iem cables made with neotech and other taiwan imported wires, recently. the price is >$150 ($120 at 11.11), while being thinner than acrolink $60 cables.

edit: if you like ibasso copper look, this cable is thicker and softer than zsn's stock. got them for <$24, and measured 180mΩ.
and this was found in some shops at around $82 at 11.11. it's a bit stiffer, not due to the sleeve but the thickness. about 57mΩ.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 15, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> edit: if you like ibasso copper look, this cable is thicker and softer than zsn's stock. got them for <$24, and measured 180mΩ.


That looks(feels) pretty nice and price isn`t killing. I wish I had seen that earlier, atm not going to buy but going to wishlist.
Thanks a lot for useful measurements and links!

There`s also this one if You haven`t tried yet, cheaper too: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Upg...003.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.1a622e0eiUZI94


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> There`s also this one if You haven`t tried yet, cheaper too: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Upg...003.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.1a622e0eiUZI94



It doesn't look like it's a very good quality cable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

hakuzen said:


> yup, you are right. acrolink wire is budget, just ok. i think that most of the chi-cables we buy in ali, are made with acrolink wire (i'm locating the acrolink used wire of most of my cables, using appearance, size, and comparison of calculated with measured resistance). about the link i provided, found same wire in another shop and composition didn't match. so avoid.


I have a cable from Papri that sells that Acrolink wire. I don't know if it's the same brand that they used but Papri sure made a great cable! I ordered another from them and plan to order more after that. Papri rocks!


----------



## CoiL (Nov 15, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have a cable from Papri that sells that Acrolink wire. I don't know if it's the same brand that they used but Papri sure made a great cable! I ordered another from them and plan to order more after that. Papri rocks!


Papri is same as acrolink. There was even acrolink paper along with mine.
It sure looks nice but like I already said, rather stiff-sided not ultra soft like IT01 cable and impedance could be tad better imo.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> It doesn't look like it's a very good quality cable.


Why?
Solder points only at ends and braided nicely (not heat-twisted like KZ). Connectors look ok too. Don`t know about impedance though. Hopefully hakuzen will chime in.
I don`t need it atm but when I need another mmcx, it will be the next.
Even around 35$ NiceHCK mmcx "silver plated" cable, which feels and looks really HQ one, has started to turn slightly green after about 2 years (with little usage and safe caring). 
Don`t want another "silver" plated cable anymore.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Something is seriously wrong with Gearbest... a couple days ago, they had three colors for the ZSN and now they have four!

https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009268056629.html

A couple days ago, "Tyrian Purple" (I ordered), Medium Turquoise and Black. 

Now they've also added, "Viola Purple".

What?

Is KZ adding new colors for this model?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> Why? Solder points only at ends and braided nicely (not heat-twisted like KZ). Connectors look ok too. Don`t know about impedance though.


It's just my opinion on the cable appearance. I could very well be wrong. It was just an ignorant opinion and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## mathi8vadhanan

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It's just my opinion on the cable appearance. I could very well be wrong. It was just an ignorant opinion and I'm sticking to it.


It's just a four core cable. Looks like the one that come bundled with 64-Audio iems.


----------



## Mellowship

Just one potentially dumb question to the "cable" guys (and girls) out there: 

I made my path from hifi standalone components and the only cable design I came to value over the years, despite its proneness to EMI/RFI, was low capacity design. I made a bunch of DIY single-core RCA interconnects with stripped CAT5 copper wires, wrapped in white PTFE and finished with cotton shoestrings. Each wire was separated from the other about 1 cm (picture below. notice the "less is more", with the ground on only one side. this was how we rolled back in my audiophylylylylyle days). Also made speaker cables from stripped pure copper 75Ohm antenna wire also wrapped in teflon. Lately been using transmission cables that are single-core copper-covered aluminium. The point here was to reduce capacitance to the minimum, using the most neutral dielectrics (air, teflon, cotton) and separating wires, in order to have cables that were not functioning as capacitors. This makes a difference in home audio, and it's a cable philosophy followed by the likes of Cyrus and/or Mission. 

Has someone measured the capacitance on IEM cables? If so, what values did you find (uF)? Or it doesn't really make sense? Or does it makes sense but such design would not be comfortable and the stranded designs are a better trade-off? I cannot imagine a KZ with separated single core wires hanging from it all the way down to the jack... But maybe the flat cable design has it's point here...


----------



## Zerohour88 (Nov 15, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Something is seriously wrong with Gearbest... a couple days ago, they had three colors for the ZSN and now they have four!
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009268056629.html
> 
> ...



Viola Purple, right up @mbwilson111 alley's

that said, no indication of it on any official KZ channels (totally forgot that KZ have a 16 driver unit already in testing, no idea when it will be announced, should be a nice foil to the TRN 12BA and 16BA)


----------



## Mellowship

Just to redeem from my off-topic last post, here's the rarity I'm driving today:


 

KZ IE80 with large foam tips, Tingo (too-cheap-to-be-really-)silver cable and Hidizs Sonata HD Usb-c dac.

The source is taking the picture. 

Yes, it's a real newspaper there.

How many of you have the ie80?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Mellowship said:


> Just to redeem from my off-topic last post, here's the rarity I'm driving today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the Ie80, also What, KZ makes Ie80 ripoffs?


----------



## Mellowship

Dobrescu George said:


> I have the Ie80, also What, KZ makes Ie80 ripoffs?


KZ people tend to call it "tribute by imitation"


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 15, 2018)

Stop talking about that..it gets threads closed and brands banned.

Anyway that is an old discontinued item.


----------



## B9Scrambler

...deleted...


----------



## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> Papri is same as acrolink. There was even acrolink paper along with mine.
> It sure looks nice but like I already said, rather stiff-sided not ultra soft like IT01 cable and impedance could be tad better imo.
> 
> Why?
> ...


i saw the wire of that 4 cores cable yesterday somewhere (probably by acrolink, but i'm not sure), but didn't know about the cable. the look of the wire is gorgeous.
i also saw 8 cores version of that wire.
0.08mm*19 is equivalent to 0.095mm2(section) / 0.35mm (diameter) / 27AWG. in the case of 4 cores, 1 core per signal, 27AWG is around 240mΩ roughly (1.2m cable, including about 15mΩ of plugs and solders, if they are decent).
in the case of 8 cores, 2 cores per signal: 0.19mm2 / 0.49mm / 24AWG. roughly a 130mΩ cable.


----------



## hakuzen

found it; the 4 cores wire looks like this, from MPS, not acrolink, but in papri.
the 8 cores version i saw is spc from acrolink (this). wish it was available in copper, like mps', with 8 cores.


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Something is seriously wrong with Gearbest... a couple days ago, they had three colors for the ZSN and now they have four!
> 
> https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009268056629.html
> 
> ...



It would appear that viola version is the original purple ZSN with silver back and cable 
Tyrian one being new. Black back.

Also seen on twitter there's a Bluetooth adapter being released with ZSN type connections


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 15, 2018)

Mybutthurts said:


> It would appear that viola version is the original purple ZSN with silver back and cable
> Tyrian one being new. Black back.



Where is your source link?

Are you freaking kidding me?!!?! I already ordered the Black Back Black ZSN and now you're saying because it wasn't listed on their website I didn't order the Silver/Purple ZSN but a Black back/Purple?

I'm staying away from Gearbest from now on. I could have easily boughten it on Aliexpress by looking at a photo and these "clowns" only have 'text. I'm not impressed. I don't want a black/purple... ARGH! At least it better be the same cable as the silver/purple, if it's not... Gearbest is out for me, unless they have super-super cheap deals with actual photos of all products on sale.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 15, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> Viola Purple, right up @mbwilson111 alley's. that said, no indication of it on any official KZ channels


Mybutthurts says the Viola Purple is the original Silver Back/Purple ZSN with the copper cable. They also said the Turian Purple ZSN on Gearbest's website has a Black back but didn't mention the cable type it had, original/dark or copper/clear.

I hope they are wrong and the Viola Purple is the actual one with the Black back and Purple body.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 15, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> i saw the wire of that 4 cores cable yesterday somewhere (probably by acrolink, but i'm not sure), but didn't know about the cable. the look of the wire is gorgeous.
> i also saw 8 cores version of that wire.
> 0.08mm*19 is equivalent to 0.095mm2(section) / 0.35mm (diameter) / 27AWG. in the case of 4 cores, 1 core per signal, 27AWG is around 240mΩ roughly (1.2m cable, including about 15mΩ of plugs and solders, if they are decent).
> in the case of 8 cores, 2 cores per signal: 0.19mm2 / 0.49mm / 24AWG. roughly a 130mΩ cable.





hakuzen said:


> found it; the 4 cores wire looks like this, from MPS, not acrolink, but in papri.
> the 8 cores version i saw is spc from acrolink (this). wish it was available in copper, like mps', with 8 cores.


Thank You a lot! Will buy that cable for sure (2x4core and braid it together)!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 15, 2018)

If anyone cares - DD Audio seems to have the best photos of the ZSN that I have found on Ali. I apologize if they are a banned seller, because I didn't know.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...with-Metal-Resin-Housing-and/32949460599.html


----------



## Dobrescu George

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If anyone cares - DD Audio seems to have the best photos of the ZSN that I have found on Ali. I apologize if they are a banned seller, because I don't know if they are.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...with-Metal-Resin-Housing-and/32949460599.html



They are not banned, and yes, they have some of the best photos, as well as some of the best service out there!  It is a go-to seller for Chi-fi items at this moment


----------



## CoiL

I wonder if ZST faceplate will fit for ZSN? I will try it. Would be nice to have total-purple-seethrough IEM for my wife ;P


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> I wonder if ZST faceplate will fit for ZSN? I will try it. Would be nice to have total-purple-seethrough IEM for my wife ;P


I wonder if that'll change the acoustics? And start a fight in the marriage, "I freaking hate you a-hole! This thing sounds like a badly manufactured fake ZST!"


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I wonder if that'll change the acoustics? And start a fight in the marriage, "I freaking hate you a-hole, this thing sounds like a badly manufactured fake ZST!"


Of course I will drill proper holes for that faceplate (if needed). I`m not newb in modding ya know!


----------



## Mybutthurts (Nov 15, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Where is your source link?
> 
> Are you freaking kidding me?!!?! I already ordered the Black Back Black ZSN and now you're saying because it wasn't listed on their website I didn't order the Silver/Purple ZSN but a Black back/Purple?
> 
> I'm staying away from Gearbest from now on. I could have easily boughten it on Aliexpress by looking at a photo and these "clowns" only have 'text. I'm not impressed. I don't want a black/purple... ARGH! At least it better be the same cable as the silver/purple, if it's not... Gearbest is out for me, unless they have super-super cheap deals with actual photos of all products on sale.


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> I wonder if ZST faceplate will fit for ZSN? I will try it. Would be nice to have total-purple-seethrough IEM for my wife ;P



That was what I wanted also.  I do have my Hotfi 6BA per side purple iem but it is a more subtle purple not bright ..I do love it though.  One of my best.


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily.

It was listed but slightly hidden in the fact you have select the 2nd tab for without mic to order it.
Well you do if you use the app on Android.


----------



## TheVortex

mbwilson111 said:


> That was what I wanted also.  I do have my Hotfi 6BA per side purple iem but it is a more subtle purple not bright ..I do love it though.  One of my best.



I wanted to buy that model in 11.11 but looks like it is no longer sold


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 15, 2018)

Mybutthurts said:


>


I feel stupid now. I didn't see the "Viola Purple" when I ordered the Tyrian Purple. I wonder if Gearbest got the new model before the old? This sucks for me cause now I have a Black/Black and a Black/Purple which is almost the exact same thing.

I guess I should sell the Black/Black and lose a few dollars and buy the Viola Purple and keep the Black/Purple as well.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mybutthurts said:


> LaughMoreDaily.
> 
> It was listed but slightly hidden in the fact you have select the 2nd tab for without mic to order it.
> Well you do if you use the app on Android.


I order from the website as it's easier for me despite the savings on the app.


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I order from the website as it's easier for me despite the savings on the app.



Have a wait until black Friday and see if it's any cheaper, and the other order may have arrived and see if you really like them and their sound.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mybutthurts said:


> Have a wait until black Friday and see if it's any cheaper, and the other order may have arrived and see if you really like them and their sound.


Smart man, thanks for making me wiser. 

I think I'm sticking to ordering from Aliexpress. The only hassles I've had was the product not arriving but I got a quick refund. Gearbest sold me a Purple I didn't want (ultimately, my fault)...


----------



## SiggyFraud (Nov 15, 2018)

My purple/silver ZSNs arrived yesterday. I won't discuss their sound, as there're others who can do it way better; I'll just say that for me, sound-wise, they do everything right.
Their design/bulid quality/aesthetics, on the other hand, now that's something I could rave about. They're definitely eye-catching, but in a good way. They don't seem cheap, or vulgar. Despite being light, the ZSNs feel rather sturdy.
The cable is top-notch, probably the best stock KZ cable released to date. It's thick(ish), solid, and free of the metal earhooks. I think I actually prefer these to the TRN ones, which seem loose and poor-fitting in comparison.
The new tips provide a kind of seal and comfort which I couldn't achieve with any of the previous ones. Fit and seal are instant, and isolation is really good - I just pop them in, and that's it. No wriggling, no tip-rolling.
Don't know how they'll turn out during longer listening sessions, but so far I'm not worried.
I feel that KZ really hit a home run with the ZSNs, especially considering the price.


----------



## randomnin

It was probably discussed someplace, but remind me, if you don't mind: what is the best method to get text off of ZS3/4? Also, maybe make it more matte. Sandpaper of varied grit?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I think the new tips are the best sounding, but they put pressure on my ear walls(no idea what its called) and reminds me I have somn in my ear. It doesn't really hurt, but I would rather be able to forget about them. ZST can disappear totally. 

Anyway so far I have tried Auvio(wide bore) and didn't like the change to the sound. Ended up throwing on some Sony Hybrids. The low end sounds identical to the stock tips, but the treble seems off. Will try them out another day or so, and try somn else. 

Anybody have some suggestions please do so. :shrugs:


----------



## antdroid

randomnin said:


> It was probably discussed someplace, but remind me, if you don't mind: what is the best method to get text off of ZS3/4? Also, maybe make it more matte. Sandpaper of varied grit?



Try a solvent first like acetone or... Have to think what is acrylic resistant.

A very light abrasion will work too obviously. Make sure to use fine as possible so you don't rough it up too much


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 15, 2018)

SiggyFraud said:


> My purple/silver ZSNs arrived yesterday. I won't discuss their sound, as there're others who can do it way better; I'll just say that for me, sound-wise, they do everything right.
> Their design/bulid quality/aesthetics, on the other hand, now that's something I could rave about. They're definitely eye-catching, but in a good way. They don't seem cheap, or vulgar. Despite being light, the ZSNs feel rather sturdy.
> The cable is top-notch, probably the best stock KZ cable released to date. It's thick(ish), solid, and free of the metal earhooks. I think I actually prefer these to the TRN ones, which seem loose and poor-fitting in comparison.
> The new tips provide a kind of seal and comfort which I couldn't achieve with any of the previous ones. Fit and seal are instant, and isolation is really good - I just pop them in, and that's it. No wriggling, no tip-rolling.
> ...


+1 At least you were right on target with everything else you mentioned above. With that light copper cable, it rivals some of the best I personally have. I also believe that KZ hit a "hi-end benchmark" at such a low price! Since the beginning, I wasn't joking when I said that KZ gave some extra effort, for what ever reason, on the ZSN. Crazy, but true!

Cheers!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone compared their KZ's to higher end or brand name IEM's? Maybe like the KEF M200, etc? How did they hold up?


----------



## durwood (Nov 15, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If anyone cares - DD Audio seems to have the best photos of the ZSN that I have found on Ali. I apologize if they are a banned seller, because I didn't know.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...with-Metal-Resin-Housing-and/32949460599.html



It's probably just an optical illusion but is it just me that thinks the silver purple (i think it looks pink but pink probably doesn't sell like purple does) model has larger holes in the nozzle screen and also the silver back plate? I'm pretty sure it's an illusion, but all this talk that it sounds different just seems like the ZST confusion. The ZST confusion was probably real-the early black ZST was most likely tuned bad (see thephonograph measurements), and they fixed it and released the colorful and revised black model.

I cannot help but think the visual cues are affecting how the perception of the sound..dark = warm, silver =clarity. And if it is truly the cable difference-someone did measure impedance difference, then putting the silver/purple version cable on the black models should bring clarity right?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

durwood said:


> It's probably just an optical illusion but is it just me that thinks the silver purple (i think it looks pink but pink probably doesn't sell like purple does) model has larger holes in the nozzle screen and also the silver back plate?


According to DD Audio's photos, I think you're right.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 15, 2018)

Gearbest has changed/raised the amount of the cost for shipping to Canada since my order a couple days ago. Is this related to the USA/China Shipping policies that were in the news?

The Viola Purple also costs more than any of the other models. ($20.77 vs $18.61 Canadian) without shipping.

I paid $22.26 for Netherlands Post Registered Air Mail (weird?) for the Tyrian Purple and now it's only being mailed by "Priority Line". The cost is now $24.69. Aliexpress is cheaper.


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> It's probably just an optical illusion but is it just me that thinks the silver purple (i think it looks pink but pink probably doesn't sell like purple does) model has larger holes in the nozzle screen and also the silver back plate? I'm pretty sure it's an illusion, but all this talk that it sounds different just seems like the ZST confusion.



That's an interesting observation.

I will measure the exact size of the rear vents when mine show up.


----------



## 1clearhead

durwood said:


> It's probably just an optical illusion but is it just me that thinks the silver purple (i think it looks pink but pink probably doesn't sell like purple does) model has larger holes in the nozzle screen and also the silver back plate? I'm pretty sure it's an illusion, but all this talk that it sounds different just seems like the ZST confusion. The ZST confusion was probably real-the early black ZST was most likely tuned bad (see thephonograph measurements), and they fixed it and released the colorful and revised black model.
> 
> I cannot help but think the visual cues are affecting how the perception of the sound..dark = warm, silver =clarity. And if it is truly the cable difference-someone did measure impedance difference, *then putting the silver/purple version cable on the black models should bring clarity right?*


Yes, it does! ...already tested them on both of my ZSN's (purple/silver and cyan/black).


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 16, 2018)

Anyone that already owns any other ZSN models besides the purple/silver can always have the option getting the clear/silver cable on aliexpress, toabao, or where ever available.

...that's what I did!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> Anyone that already owns any other ZSN models besides the purple/silver can always have the option getting the clear/silver cable on aliexpress, toabao, or where ever available.
> 
> ...that's what I did!


Where's the link...or it didn't happen. 

Not here: https://www.aliexpress.com/af/zsn-cable.html?SearchText=zsn+cable&origin=n&jump=afs


----------



## 1clearhead

Try this link...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?


----------



## antdroid (Nov 16, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone compared their KZ's to higher end or brand name IEM's? Maybe like the KEF M200, etc? How did they hold up?



How higher end?

No KZ is in the same class as my Unique Melody ME1 in my opinion, but I'd say KZ's are worth double their asking price on specific models. But that's probably true for all these chinese brands.

The western companies low end stuff is mostly meh, but once you start talking $300+ they are pretty good. The ATH-LS200iS i will be reviewing soon is actually quite good sounding. While it may not be worth $350 if you throw a Chinese brand into the mix, it's still a good IEM. Chinese ones -- I feel like you never know what you'll be getting, and returning them is a huge hassle unless they are on amazon. I dont even bother returning anything on AliExpress, so you do pay a small premium for customer service, availability, and reliability.

Basically, I think the KZ AS10 is probably worth maybe $75 if not less, because the BGVP DMG and P4 Pro are a lot better to me. A lot better. And they are $80-$135 usually. I think the BA10 is overpriced but I have different impressions than some others on it and it could be due to fit.

The ZS6 _could_ be worth well above its $40-50 price tag but sibilance kills it. So its worth $0 to me.

The ZSN, on limited listen, is probably worth 2X its asking price based on other IEMs on the market now. I think it has the signature right, just lacking some details and soundstage. But for the price, its great!

KZ hype, I think, is a bit overrated, but that's my personal opinion -- but I dont typically enjoy their target signature -- but the AS10 and ZSN are closer to what I do like.

Hmm to answer your question - they do compete with bigger brands in the same price range, but they arent world beaters beating out higher priced competition from chinese or western brands. (my opinion)


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone compared their KZ's to higher end or brand name IEM's? Maybe like the KEF M200, etc? How did they hold up?



I compared the ZSN with my 64audio U6 ADEL and V8. These two IEMs are among the most expensive IEM I have and I actually like the ZSN better. I can actually hear and understand vocal better with my ZSN. Bass is also better in the ZSN, the V8 which supposedly have big bass sounds like they bumped up in low mid and makes the sounds so muddy and super thick. Treble is less sparkly on the U6 and V8 which is actually needed if you use them for stage monitoring, but for music listening, ZSN's treble is better IMO. 

I do have KEF M200 and if I remember correctly, it also has V shaped sound signature and I really love their sound, but their ear hooks are abysmal.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> Try this link...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...n-0-75mm-high-purity-oxygen/32947613528.html?


Lol. I've seen that one before. I thought you were pointing us toward the copper clear cable that comes on the ZSN.


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Lol. I've seen that one before. I thought you were pointing us toward the copper clear cable that comes on the ZSN.


Oops!...sorry if you were mislead...just the clear/silver are the only ones available that I can see.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> I compared the ZSN with my 64audio U6 ADEL and V8. These two IEMs are among the most expensive IEM I have and I actually like the ZSN better. I can actually hear and understand vocal better with my ZSN. Bass is also better in the ZSN, the V8 which supposedly have big bass sounds like they bumped up in low mid and makes the sounds so muddy and super thick. Treble is less sparkly on the U6 and V8 which is actually needed if you use them for stage monitoring, but for music listening, ZSN's treble is better IMO.
> 
> I do have KEF M200 and if I remember correctly, it also has V shaped sound signature and I really love their sound, but their ear hooks are abysmal.


Wow, that's such a w-i-d-e comparison from where they're priced!...Good to know! 

...and this comparison is done with the light copper cable on the ZSN, right?


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 16, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> Wow, that's such a w-i-d-e comparison from where they're priced!...Good to know!
> 
> ...and this comparison is done with the light copper cable on the ZSN, right?



The dark brown cable actually
For some reason, my U6 and V8 sounds dull compared to ZSN.


----------



## eclein (Nov 16, 2018)

I bought the white cable for my black ZSN’s...... I like it better myself, white cables look good I think.

As voicemaster mentioned I’ve compared my 64 audio U4SEs to my latest KZ buys and all and I like the KZ better myself in fact I’m probably gonna sell my U4SE’s so holler if your interested before I post it folks. I’ve done several comparisons over the past few weeks because I really need to be certain before selling that they won’t be missed, and at this point they been overshadowed by a few of my latest KZ & TRN purchases. I wanna get a new DAP with 2 way Bluetooth so I can stream Spotify content from my ipad pro to the DAP and use wired iems so I can take advantage of the ESS SABRE DAC I am absolutely making sure it has, like the new ifi XCAN does but with my content available as well.

How do you guys figure depreciation on your used gear that you sell?


----------



## voicemaster

Oh and I am a believer that more expensive doesn't necessarily means better or good.


eclein said:


> I bought the white cable for my black ZSN’s...... I like it better myself, white cables look good I think.
> 
> As voicemaster mentioned I’ve compared my 64 audio U4SEs to my latest KZ buys and all and I like the KZ better myself in fact I’m probably gonna sell my U4SE’s so holler if your interested before I post it folks. I’ve done several comparisons over the past few weeks because I really need to be certain before selling that they won’t be missed, and at this point they been overshadowed by a few of my latest KZ & TRN purchases. I wanna get a new DAP with 2 way Bluetooth so I can stream Spotify content from my ipad pro to the DAP and use wired iems so I can take advantage of the ESS SABRE DAC I am absolutely making sure it has, like the new ifi XCAN does but with my content available as well.
> 
> How do you guys figure depreciation on your used gear that you sell?



Is your 64audio the old one before they introduce the APEX and TIA?


----------



## eclein

September of last year. Upgraded cable, both type apex modules they sell (in the lid of the case next to the clip)


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> BTW, to anyone who has an out-of-phase BT10, I took mine apart and it is not difficult to correct the problem if you are handy with a soldering iron. Even if you aren't, a local electronics repair shop (or even a local HeadFier) could resolder it for you.
> 
> Tomorrow I will work on a guide with photos.



Looking forward to this. I just got a new Weller iron and have some fresh new tips I've been building my tube amp with . I got a BT3, but BT10 wouldn't be bad to have around and working.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 16, 2018)

eclein said:


> As voicemaster mentioned I’ve compared my 64 audio U4SEs to my latest KZ buys and all and I like the KZ better myself in fact I’m probably gonna sell my U4SE’s so holler if your interested before I post it folks. I’ve done several comparisons over the past few weeks because I really need to be certain before selling that they won’t be missed, and at this point they been overshadowed by a few of my latest KZ & TRN purchases.




In the end it's really all about finding something so you can enjoy your music collection.



 


When you know.......you know.

End of.


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> n the end it's really all about finding something so you can enjoy your music collection.



Most of what I have allows me to do that... enjoy my music.   The reason why I have so much is not because I am dissatisfied or searching for perfection,  it is because I get too curious when you all talk about these things.  So I blame headfi.


----------



## eclein

I’m loving my music Doc! I’ve never had IEMs that gave me this level of detail before. I’m listening to tracks I’ve heard billions of times and hearing overtones and sounds for the first time. I love these new sound signatures....hearing the players breathe, fudge a note...Listening to music I recorded and hearing how bad it was mixed....lol.
 I’m like reawakened in this hobby...and really enjoying it.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 16, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Most of what I have allows me to do that... enjoy my music.   The reason why I have so much is not because I am dissatisfied or searching for perfection,  it is because I get too curious when you all talk about these things.  So I blame headfi.





eclein said:


> I’m loving my music Doc! I’ve never had IEMs that gave me this level of detail before. I’m listening to tracks I’ve heard billions of times and hearing overtones and sounds for the first time. I love these new sound signatures....hearing the players breathe, fudge a note...Listening to music I recorded and hearing how bad it was mixed....lol.
> I’m like reawakened in this hobby...and really enjoying it.



Yep, we expand our horizons, tighten our belts and have a lot of fun doing it. 

Threads like this are actually documenting the huge shift taking place in portable audio gear. It started with transistor radios, boom boxes and Walkmasns before moving on to MP3 players. IPods, DAPs and smartphones mean just about everyone will want/need a set of earphones. The changes just seem to keep picking up speed.....

.....and we're enjoying every minute of it.

Looking forward to what's next on the menu!


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> September of last year. Upgraded cable, both type apex modules they sell (in the lid of the case next to the clip)



Cool case!


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Cool case!



That's the standard case for 64 Audio.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

The ED16 is my best KZ right now. What is the next step up in their offering?


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ED16 is my best KZ right now. What is the next step up in their offering?



For me it would be the ZSN.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

eclein said:


> How do you guys figure depreciation on your used gear that you sell?


That depends on way too many factors. I would try and figure it out yourself. It also depends on what you feel and what it's currently selling for in the market. I bought some headphones on sale for $20 or so but because they are either discontinued or way below their retail price when I got them on sale, I'm going to sell them for the price I bought them for.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> For me it would be the ZSN.


Really? The ZSN is a step better then the ED16? Wow. I guess it's good I have 2 coming my way, just no Silver/Purple. 

Are you factoring in their design/workmanship as a factor in with the high quality sound or just going by the sound itself?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Really? The ZSN is a step better then the ED16? Wow. I guess it's good I have 2 coming my way, just no Silver/Purple.
> 
> Are you factoring in their design/workmanship as a factor in with the high quality sound or just going by the sound itself?



All of it including ease of fit.

I should mention that I found the stock cable on the ED16 useless ergonomically... and also the tips.  Using Spinfits and a KZ braided copper cable.  

I am using the ZSN exactly as it came... the installed medium tips fit me.  They are not Starlines but a pack of S, M and L starlines are included as well.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 16, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> All of it including ease of fit.
> 
> I should mention that I found the stock cable on the ED16 useless ergonomically... and also the tips.  Using Spinfits and a KZ braided copper cable.
> 
> I am using the ZSN exactly as it came... the installed medium tips fit me.


I have the TRN 8 core silver/black cable on my ED16. I hope to try a copper braided one day. Your profile says yours is from the ZS6?

KZ ZSN! A WINNER! 

I wonder what a step up in the family would be? Lol.


----------



## Slater (Nov 16, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ED16 is my best KZ right now. What is the next step up in their offering?





mbwilson111 said:


> For me it would be the ZSN.



I just got my purple/silver ZSN.

I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.

The build quality is impressive, the cable is excellent (the best stock cable I’ve seen from them hands down).

Wow has KZ come a long way. And for $11. THIS is KZ in a nutshell; a culmination of their years of tiny refinements. Simply amazing.

Granted, I don’t have their fancy pants flagships (ZS10, BA10, AS10), but with the ZSN I have absolutely no desire to get any of those. I can’t imagine spending $60, $70, or $80 on a KZ when $11 will get you an IEM of this caliber. And all this with a basic TWO driver hybrid. Not 4, 5, 6, 7 blah blah peeing contest.

The sound is so clean. Deep bass that is super tight and fast, without being boosted. Crisp clear mids, that are more forward and balanced than their more V shaped IEMs like the ZS4. Treble is just right IMO. Not piercing, not sibilant, not too bright, not too forward/boosted.

The comfort is excellent, even more comfortable than the ZS3/ZS4.

I did swap the stock tips with Starline tips right OOTB though (my go to). I will try the included stock tips later.

Unfortunately I couldn’t remove the back and take a peek inside. They are using the smallest Torx crews I’ve ever seen. My current set goes to T4 (which is ridiculously tiny), and these are even smaller than that haha. I’ll have to get a kit with even smaller bits.

Anyways, if you want to introduce someone to ChiFi, and specifically to the KZ brand, the ZSN is the IEM to do it. It’s super affordable, very premium, and the sound is not offensive.

It is an all-rounder, and an ideal daily driver. It will satisfy most bassheads, without being a ‘basshead’ IEM. It will satisfy most treble heads, without being a ‘treblehead’ IEM. It will satisfy most people looking for a neutral IEM, without being perfectly flat and neutral. It’s got plenty of detail that would satisfy most people, without being so micro-detailed and analytical that it doesn’t let you enjoy the music.

It lives in that “just right” Goldilocks position. It’s not warm nor cold sounding - it’s just a pure, uncolored musical output.

And no, this isn’t flavor of the month hype or a honeymoon phase. I just went thought my extensive KZ collection last night, so it’s all fresh in my mind. The ZSN is the real deal (for a KZ).

I do have a black/black one on the way, which I’ll compare to the purple/silver one.

Also, I am using it with my xduoo X3 and FiiO amps (A5 and also E12A). I will try it out later with my iPhone and just X3 (without amp) to see if there’s any difference.

My only complaint is there’s no L/R markings on the shells. There is on the cable though. That’s so minor that it’s hardly worth mentioning. But nothing is perfect


----------



## eclein

Well I did it..up 4 sale are my 64audio U4SE’s....
Between the BA10’s, newly cabled ZS5, the ZSN and my V80’s (that was the final nail), if sold I’ll find a new DAP.... I still have an original fiio x1 and other stuff thats laying around, Sleek SA6’s....

So whats next weeks new KZ Model, maybe the KZ4ME or KZNN, KZATBAT.?


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the KZ 8 core silver cable on my ED16. I hope to try a copper braided one day. Your profile says yours is from the ZS6?



Not exactly.  The stock ZS6 is rubbery and I have something else on mine.   The one I  have on the ED16 is actually from my husband's ZSA which had the angled connector but it is not as big as the ones that fit the KZR etc so you have to choose carefully   I believe that any KZ6 cable should fit the ED16.  That connector is straight as is the stock ED16 cable.







So my cable for the ED16 is similar to that but has the strange smaller ZSA angled one


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...



Wow... if I had said all that earlier this week would you have believed me?   It is a wonderful surprise.  I am very happy I decided to get it.


----------



## dondonut

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...


 
Raving review Slater, your enthusiasm is infectious. I'm very curious as to how you think the purple and black compare, as well as how they sound driven by a smartphone. I'll make sure to keep an eye out for an update.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 16, 2018)

I believe it was "Mybutthurts" that said the Tyrian Purple (on Gearbest) had a black back vs the silver but as I noticed looking at buyer photos it actually has the regular silver back.
So I wonder what the fourth model is that they have called Viola Purple? It looks like some mislabeling is going on on Gearbest.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I believe it was "Mybutthurts" that said the Tyrian Purple (on Gearbest) had a black back vs the silver but as I noticed looking at buyer photos it actually has the regular silver back.
> So I wonder what the fourth model is that they have called Viola Purple? It looks like some mislabeling is going on on Gearbest.



Yes, I am confused by that .. I searched and searched but could find no photos of a black on purple version.  If they want to add another  color, do something entirely different.. Like red on red.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 16, 2018)




----------



## Bartig

Can't wait for the KZ ZSN to arrive, but I can already say it will have tough competition from this sub 10 dollar earphone. The brand new EZaudio D4 is excellent!


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow... if I had said all that earlier this week would you have believed me?   It is a wonderful surprise.  I am very happy I decided to get it.



Yes, of course. I trust your opinion just as much as anyone’s!

Numerous people have been saying how good the ZSN is. That’s why I pulled the trigger and ordered it a few weeks ago.

Let’s put it this way, I’ve been extremely picky as choosy about what IEMs I buy.

I have been waiting for that something ‘special’ to come along; the diamond in the rough. I would know it when I saw it, and the ZSN is that model.

Other than the ZSN, the ONLY 2018 KZ I’ve bought (since the ZS6 came out) has been the ZS4. And that was only because I’ve been waiting for the ZS3 to be upgraded since the ZS3 came out 2 years ago.

I’ve passed up all of the following 2018 KZ models:

ZSA
ZS10
ES4
ED15
ED16
AS10
BA10
BTE
ZS3E


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> Can't wait for the KZ ZSN to arrive, but I can already say it will have tough competition from this sub 10 dollar earphone. The brand new EZaudio D4 is excellent!



Unless the 11.11 fukubukuro mystery bag comes with it, I won’t be getting the D4. I have a stupid number of IEMs, and I’ve been trying to reign in my lack of self control


----------



## Zerohour88

mbwilson111 said:


> Most of what I have allows me to do that... enjoy my music.   The reason why I have so much is not because I am dissatisfied or searching for perfection,  it is because I get too curious when you all talk about these things.  So I blame headfi.



Agreed, if I actually wanted the best I've heard, I'd save up a bit more and just get the CA Andromeda myself and be done with lurking around. But even a friend who doesn't read head-fi much asks me "dude, what's the FOTM now, itching to try something else" and I end up also being curious. We just know that even if we get the absolute best now, we'll just get the itch to try something else later. Might as well accept that fact and go for big value items for the added "getting a bargain" feel.


----------



## Slater (Nov 16, 2018)

dondonut said:


> Raving review Slater, your enthusiasm is infectious. I'm very curious as to how you think the purple and black compare, as well as how they sound driven by a smartphone. I'll make sure to keep an eye out for an update.



Ok, so on the cell phone (specifically, the iPhone SE), the difference is very minimal:

1. I can hear very minor micro details on the X3/FiiO combo vs the iPhone by itself. I have to listen very carefully to hear them, and if I didn’t even know they were there, I wouldn’t ever miss them.

2. The sound from the iPhone is a tad smoother overall, but it is more noticeable in the upper region vs the lower region. With the DAP/amp, the sound is a bit crisper and clearer with regards to clarity and resolution. But just like #1, the difference is minimal.

(Anyone who needs specific examples in songs, let me know).

So imagine a tall glass of pure distilled water - that’s the X3 with amp. Now take a dropper and put 1 drop of milk in the water and stir it up. The clarity of the water will be just barely lessened. But if you didn’t know the drop of milk was in the water, most people wouldn’t even know.

Or think of your car windshield, and imagine it with a light dusting of pollen or maybe a handful of water spots. The windshield is still clear; just not 100% perfectly clear like it would be if it was meticulously cleaned.

In other words, if the sound of the ZSN on the X3 with amp was rated at a perfect 10.0/10.0, then the sound of the ZSN on the iPhone would be a 9.8/10.0.

How much of the difference is due to the processing of the audio in the iPhone’s DAC chip vs the xduoo X3’s DAC chip, voltage smoothing by the amp, or changes introduced by the FiiOs Muses02 op amp is impossible to tell.

If I had to guess, both #1 and #2 sound like the difference is related to the BA driver. So my guess is the BA is somehow driven slightly better or more energetically on the DAP/amp combo. Or maybe it’s related to a difference in output impedance or output voltage. I’m not an engineer, so I can only speculate.

The bottom line is that the ZSN can be driven from a phone (at least the iPhone SE) “just fine” 

Contrast this with IEMs such as the ZS5 v1 or ZS3, which sound like crap from a phone and *significantly* better when used with the right DAP/amp combo.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Let’s put it this way, I’ve been extremely picky as choosy about what IEMs I buy.
> 
> I have been waiting for that something ‘special’ to come along; the diamond in the rough. I would know it when I saw it, and the ZSN is that model.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that... the ED16 is awesome.  You missed one diamond in the rough!

PS: I watched a video today where the audiophile said the TRN v20 is better than the ZS4.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm sorry to hear that... the ED16 is awesome.  You missed one diamond in the rough!



It is not too late for him to get one  I will still love my ED16.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...



If KZ had just released the ZSN 2 years ago, I would have saved a ton of money. I would take ZSN all day every day over my ZS10. ZSN just sounds outstanding with every single kind of music I play.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...



You really need this kit. Really the best bit set and tool kit for tech stuff. Not to mention has every torx bit imaginable.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GF0KV6G/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_D.37BbHKZWDXD
I still think the AS10 and ZS6 are the best KZs available although my ZSNs will be here Monday!


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm sorry to hear that... the ED16 is awesome.  You missed one diamond in the rough!
> 
> PS: I watched a video today where the audiophile said the TRN v20 is better than the ZS4.





mbwilson111 said:


> It is not too late for him to get one  I will still love my ED16.



Man you guys are such enablers! You should sell crack haha

I have thought about the ED16 numerous times. It’s actually been in my shopping cart on more than one occasion. In all cases I’d eventually remove it (part of that _working on my self control _thing).

I do only have 2 ears after all


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> You really need this kit. Really the best bit set and tool kit for tech stuff. Not to mention has every torx bit imaginable.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GF0KV6G/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_D.37BbHKZWDXD
> I still think the AS10 and ZS6 are the best KZs available although my ZSNs will be here Monday!



That looks like a comprehensive kit for sure! Thanks for sharing the link 

Luckily, through many years in the IT  field, I’ve actually accumulated numerous kits similar to that. In addition, I’ve tried to assemble better tools where it matters (such as metal spudgers and guitar picks instead of the blue plastic ones that fall apart after 1 use, hardened tool steel Swiss or German screwdrivers, etc).

I’ve just never run into T3 and smaller Torx fasteners (which is stupidly small).

These ultra micro fasteners seem to be common on cell phones and tablets, which I only work on infrequently.


----------



## sino8r

Zerohour88 said:


> Agreed, if I actually wanted the best I've heard, I'd save up a bit more and just get the CA Andromeda myself and be done with lurking around. But even a friend who doesn't read head-fi much asks me "dude, what's the FOTM now, itching to try something else" and I end up also being curious. We just know that even if we get the absolute best now, we'll just get the itch to try something else later. Might as well accept that fact and go for big value items for the added "getting a bargain" feel.



You sound alot like me. I tried all the bargain iems and got more into it and started chasing the dragon as they say. KZ and the others are great and can compete with the mid tier stuff but they lack certain fine details. You might try a few things from TFZ for a bit more or ibasso. I settled on the Fiio FH5 and IMR R1 which are both alot of fun but set me back over 500 US dollars. A few months after those purchases, I still bought the ZSNs and repurchased the AS10s which I tried for a few days a while back lol! I even went all out on bluetooth as well and bought the Sony MUC-M2BT1 which one the best iem bluetooth available. It was worth it for LDAC codex alone but still a 200 dollar purchase for bluetooth cables basically when the TRN BT3 or BT10 work almost as well. Point is... At a certain point, you're only paying extra for minor details. It probably isn't really worth it and I doubt you can tell a huge difference at a certain point in quality of sound. Still though, I get a huge bonus check at the end of the year and keep thinking about Campfire Andromedas in mirror finish and the Atlas. I can't imagine paying 1000 dollars for iems but I may have spent that much adding up cables and iems already... We may have to start a IEM Anonymous thread because some of us really need help lol!


----------



## sino8r (Nov 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> That looks like a comprehensive kit for sure! Thanks for sharing the link
> 
> Luckily, through many years in the IT  field, I’ve actually accumulated numerous kits similar to that. In addition, I’ve tried to assemble better tools where it matters (such as metal spudgers and guitar picks instead of the blue plastic ones that fall apart after 1 use, hardened tool steel Swiss or German screwdrivers, etc).
> 
> ...



Yeah, I was in the IT field for a while myself. I recently escaped that world for the past few years as a newspaper editor but guess who is still the IT guy at work when something needs fixing lol! Anyways, I got that kit for our Macs because they love to use weird screws and it was the only one with torx bits small enough with security holes in the center. D@mn Mac minis are a pain! And yeah, I started my IT journey at Nextel working on phones and have always been drawn to those small bits. That was when you could actually still solder buttons back on phone circuit boards and stuff. Nowadays, ram and other stuff is soldered in place just to make you buy new stuff. IT isn't what it used to be and Apple hasn't helped the situation at all.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

sino8r said:


> I still think the AS10 and ZS6 are the best KZs available although my ZSNs will be here Monday!


We look forward to hearing your opinion again on this next week!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> If KZ had just released the ZSN 2 years ago, I would have saved a ton of money. I would take ZSN all day every day over my ZS10. ZSN just sounds outstanding with every single kind of music I play.


I love you, for your comment only.  You speak such beautiful words that make my ears melt in anticipation of my two ZSN arriving.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 16, 2018)

Slater said:


> Man you guys are such enablers! You should sell crack haha
> 
> I have thought about the ED16 numerous times. It’s actually been in my shopping cart on more than one occasion. In all cases I’d eventually remove it (part of that _working on my self control _thing).
> 
> I do only have 2 ears after all



But I thought this was supposed to be a gathering place for enablers and hoarders. 

I actually bought a second ED16 in the other color so I would have a backup pair but then I felt sorry for my husband and gave it to him...because he did not have enough IEMs to listen to...


----------



## Zerohour88

sino8r said:


> You sound alot like me. I tried all the bargain iems and got more into it and started chasing the dragon as they say. KZ and the others are great and can compete with the mid tier stuff but they lack certain fine details. You might try a few things from TFZ for a bit more or ibasso. I settled on the Fiio FH5 and IMR R1 which are both alot of fun but set me back over 500 US dollars. A few months after those purchases, I still bought the ZSNs and repurchased the AS10s which I tried for a few days a while back lol! I even went all out on bluetooth as well and bought the Sony MUC-M2BT1 which one the best iem bluetooth available. It was worth it for LDAC codex alone but still a 200 dollar purchase for bluetooth cables basically when the TRN BT3 or BT10 work almost as well. Point is... At a certain point, you're only paying extra for minor details. It probably isn't really worth it and I doubt you can tell a huge difference at a certain point in quality of sound. Still though, I get a huge bonus check at the end of the year and keep thinking about Campfire Andromedas in mirror finish and the Atlas. I can't imagine paying 1000 dollars for iems but I may have spent that much adding up cables and iems already... We may have to start a IEM Anonymous thread because some of us really need help lol!



haha, I'm the same boat too, still waiting for that certain point where I can't tell the difference in quality. Only tested a limited number of high-end brands like CA, Dita, UE but sadly I'm still floored by every models I test.

I'm certain the day will come where I put on a chi-fi IEM and go "whoa, this is better than all those" or at least "this is actually as good as those, but much, much cheaper". Till then, just gotta keep scratching that itch.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> ZSN just sounds outstanding with every single kind of music I play.



Agreed. It’s really an “everyman’s“ (and everywoman’s) IEM.

Every genre I’ve thrown at it so far sounds great.

I haven’t tried really obscure genres (like underwater whale/dolphin mating calls or Australian Aboriginal didgeridoo), but I have a feeling it would handle those just fine!


----------



## mbwilson111

sino8r said:


> We may have to start a IEM Anonymous thread because some of us really need help lol!



I think we know what would happen if we did that...


----------



## maxxevv

BadReligionPunk said:


> If KZ had just released the ZSN 2 years ago, I would have saved a ton of money. I would take ZSN all day every day over my ZS10. ZSN just sounds outstanding with every single kind of music I play.



The ZS10's are a little picky when it comes to source and tips. It likes a little power, and sounds its best when there are globs of it. 
A little surprise for me was how well they pair with the TRN BT3 module and some ball-type foam tips.  Really, really awesome combination for commuting.  

If you can, try them again with the ball-type foam tips and a amp and be pleasantly impressed. (They sound very bland out of most handphones with the stock tips.) 


 




sino8r said:


> You really need this kit. Really the best bit set and tool kit for tech stuff. Not to mention has every torx bit imaginable.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GF0KV6G/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_D.37BbHKZWDXD
> I still think the AS10 and ZS6 are the best KZs available although my ZSNs will be here Monday!



In my books, its a tie between the AS10 and the ZS10 mainly because of fit and isolation and very easy to drive nature of the AS10. Tonality wise, I actually like that of the ZS10. 
The ZS6's are really awesome for stuff that has no vocals as its sibilance is really evident.  I like them when I listen to relaxing instrumental music.


----------



## farees

watch my full review on KZ ZS10


----------



## sino8r

maxxevv said:


> The ZS10's are a little picky when it comes to source and tips. It likes a little power, and sounds its best when there are globs of it.
> A little surprise for me was how well they pair with the TRN BT3 module and some ball-type foam tips.  Really, really awesome combination for commuting.
> 
> If you can, try them again with the ball-type foam tips and a amp and be pleasantly impressed. (They sound very bland out of most handphones with the stock tips.)
> ...




I really like the ZS10s as well. They seemed to be the first KZs that were really mid-centric to my ears. The treble is tamed but the vocals are a bit distant sounding. Probably needs a decent amp that my Samsung Note 9 can’t really provide like you said. And yes isolation and seal can be issue especially with more odd shaped iems like the ZS6, BA10, etc. I can get almost any iem to seal and isolate now with triple flange tips and Symbios foam inserts. They really helped me quite a bit and are comfortable after getting used to them. I was also able to kill almost all sibilance from the ZS6 with some foam inserted into both of the BAs.


----------



## dondonut (Nov 17, 2018)

Slater said:


> ...
> 
> So imagine a tall glass of pure distilled water - that’s the X3 with amp. Now take a dropper and put 1 drop of milk in the water and stir it up. The clarity of the water will be just barely lessened. But if you didn’t know the drop of milk was in the water, most people wouldn’t even know.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking your time to respond, great analogies for a layman like me. I'll have to order them sooner rather than later , especially considering they sound good from a low source. I can't justify that just yet, as I got 3 different iems coming my way though and they deserve some attention first. 

I'll keep an eye out for when you receive the black/black to see how the two compare. Very curious if you find the difference between them as notable as others on this thread.

On a side note, underwater dolphin and whale mating sounds is actually a genre? Who knew.


----------



## sino8r

Zerohour88 said:


> haha, I'm the same boat too, still waiting for that certain point where I can't tell the difference in quality. Only tested a limited number of high-end brands like CA, Dita, UE but sadly I'm still floored by every models I test.
> 
> I'm certain the day will come where I put on a chi-fi IEM and go "whoa, this is better than all those" or at least "this is actually as good as those, but much, much cheaper". Till then, just gotta keep scratching that itch.



I highly recommend the IMR R1 “B stock” if you like a highly customizable iem. They really are fantastic and can get them for a good price. They are my daily drivers for the past month or so. They are so much fun! I’d compare them to the AS10 on steroids. I might try the TFZ Secret Garden BA model next. They are tunable via switches vs nozzle filters on the IMR R1. I wish KZ would try a customizable model someday. That would be really interesting! They have crossover circuits already on some models so it’s not impossible or difficult to implement.


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...



Hi Slater, we are in synch! My KZ ZSN also arrived today. This thing is very good. It has clarity at the top with only a little sibilance, oomph in the bass without any bloat and a nice midrange. I am listening to some Tidal Masters tracks over my Fiio K10 and it is pure bliss. I hope that the slight sibilance will be tamed with some burn-in. Overall this is very good.

Now I am asking myself, why did I order all the other iems during the 11/11 sales. I especially hope that the KZ AS10 will be better than the ZSN, since it was more than twice as expensive as the ZSN.


----------



## voicemaster

I don't think KZ themselves are aware that they have created this monster IEM called ZSN. I've tried many IEMs from cheap bargain bin to $$$$ IEM and the ZSN can compete with them really. What really impressed me is the bass on the ZSN, how can they go so low with impact but doesn't messed up with other frequencies is unbelievable and you still get that dynamic driver bass sound too.


----------



## TLDRonin

sino8r said:


> I really like the ZS10s as well. They seemed to be the first KZs that were really mid-centric to my ears. The treble is tamed but the vocals are a bit distant sounding. Probably needs a decent amp that my Samsung Note 9 can’t really provide like you said. And yes isolation and seal can be issue especially with more odd shaped iems like the ZS6, BA10, etc. I can get almost any iem to seal and isolate now with triple flange tips and Symbios foam inserts. They really helped me quite a bit and are comfortable after getting used to them. I was also able to kill almost all sibilance from the ZS6 with some foam inserted into both of the BAs.


I doubt its an issue with powering. ZS10s tonally sound pretty "off" even with a good amp


----------



## Bartig

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm sorry to hear that... the ED16 is awesome.  You missed one diamond in the rough!


I think the ED16 is an unbalanced upgrade over the ZSR, with too much artificial 'air' in the upper mid region. It wants to give you some kind of stadium vibe, but it harms the tonality in a big way imo.


----------



## Mybutthurts

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, I am confused by that .. I searched and searched but could find no photos of a black on purple version.  If they want to add another  color, do something entirely different.. Like red on red.



There's a screenshot of the listing and on reflection there ain't a great deal of purple in the image. Not physically having the item it maybe just the image is wrong for whatever it should be or just on the app.
The original 3 are listed purple/silver & black, green/black.
So reflection can't actually say what this Tyrian purple looks like, but it is the new version listed. Gearbest please show correct image.
Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## Mybutthurts (Nov 17, 2018)




----------



## Nikostr8

at this point i feel like buying 1 o 2 ZSN backups should be a MUST before they got out of stock ( or kz change their sound  like in ZS5's case  )


----------



## mbwilson111

Mybutthurts said:


>



I did see that photo...but it is not purple at all.




Nikostr8 said:


> at this point i feel like buying 1 o 2 ZSN backups should be a MUST before they got out of stock ( or kz change their sound  like in ZS5's case  )



I know...maybe...


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...



Ok, this, coming from You... I have to buy myself another ZSN set and see/hear what it can do against properly amped ZS5v1.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

dondonut said:


> Thanks for taking your time to respond, great analogies for a layman like me. I'll have to order them sooner rather than later , especially considering they sound good from a low source. I can't justify that just yet, as I got 3 different iems coming my way though and they deserve some attention first.
> 
> I'll keep an eye out for when you receive the black/black to see how the two compare. Very curious if you find the difference between them as notable as others on this thread.
> 
> On a side note, underwater dolphin and whale mating sounds is actually a genre? Who knew.



YouTube ASMR on youtube. Soft eating sounds and haircutting sounds, both of which ZSN kills. LOL


----------



## Bartig

Just arrived: the CCA C04! I love how they look. But still... they remind me of another IEM... 
Ah yes, the KZ ES4. They look very much alike and that isn't where the comparison stops. Both are definitely bass centric. The bass of the CCA goes a little deeper in the first few songs I've tried on them, but the ES4 seems to be a better choice due to increased resolution and emphasis on the mids and highs. 

With the C04, it seems a few KZ juniors were allowed to release their own experiment. It looks and feels KZ, and it sounds good too, just not KZ good.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...


What about the difference in isolation versus ZS4? Is there any? How big of a difference?


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> 
> ...


+1 ...I couldn't have said it better myself, because I can't!


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> Man you guys are such enablers! You should sell crack haha
> 
> I have thought about the ED16 numerous times. It’s actually been in my shopping cart on more than one occasion. In all cases I’d eventually remove it (part of that _working on my self control _thing).
> 
> I do only have 2 ears after all


I've always wanted an IEM that would downright sound organic and transparent like the ED16, and I have no regrets owning a pair. But, in the other hand, the ZSN has pushed all my IEM's to the limit where they can't endure the luscious response the ZSN does in such a mature way! I believe the ZSN can match many expensive models that I carry easily without any effort of shaming the KZ brand! If the ZSN were given to me as a gift in a more solid package, I would have thought for them to be genuinely expensive. No joke!

...They are just that good!


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 17, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> I don't think KZ themselves are aware that they have created this monster IEM called ZSN. I've tried many IEMs from cheap bargain bin to $$$$ IEM and the ZSN can compete with them really. What really impressed me is the bass on the ZSN, how can they go so low with impact but doesn't messed up with other frequencies is unbelievable and you still get that dynamic driver bass sound too.


I don't remember where, but I read some blogger write that they were 8mm drivers, when actually they are driven by 10mm titanium film diaphragms. I personally think that combined with the KZ 30095 BA armatures you're getting incredible details from the bass just as much the MID's and highs.


----------



## Slater

Mybutthurts said:


>



That photo sure looks like green plastic to me.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Ok, this, coming from You... I have to buy myself another ZSN set and see/hear what it can do against properly amped ZS5v1.



Well, nothing can beat the ZS5 v1’s soundstage that I’ve found (from KZ)!


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> That photo sure looks like green plastic to me.



looks like translucent black to me...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Well, nothing can beat the ZS5 v1’s soundstage that I’ve found (from KZ)!


How'd I miss that one?  When did it hit the market?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 17, 2018)

Mybutthurts said:


> The original 3 are listed purple/silver & black, green/black.
> So reflection can't actually say what this Tyrian purple looks like, but it is the new version listed. Gearbest please show correct image.
> Sorry for any confusion.


Well, if you go on Gearbest's website and look at who bought the Tyrian Purple, you'd see their photos. Silver back, purple body, copper cable.

No idea why Gearbest is messing with us. Maybe to them Viola Purple is the 'new version'? (second Purple version added)


----------



## CoiL (Nov 17, 2018)

Slater said:


> Well, nothing can beat the ZS5 v1’s soundstage that I’ve found (from KZ)!


Well, nothing (also others than KZ) haven`t beaten the ZS5v1 "holographic" soundstage yet (out of my collection and experience). That`s one reasons why it is pure KZ GEM! ;P
Only modded IT01 comes very close... and of course my desk setup with Fidelio X1 open-back HP beats it, but not much.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> How'd I miss that one? When did it hit the market?


LOL... long time ago! Now it`s rarity and often sought after (KZ fans).


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> looks like translucent black to me...



Haha, could be. I’m color blind.

It’s definitely NOT purple, I know that for sure!


----------



## BrunoC

CoiL said:


> Well, nothing (also others than KZ) haven`t beaten the ZS5v1 "holographic" soundstage yet (out of my collection and experience). That`s one reasons why it is pure KZ GEM! ;P
> Only modded IT01 comes very close... and of course my desk setup with Fidelio X1 open-back HP beats it, but not much.
> 
> LOL... long time ago! Now it`s rarity and often sought after (KZ fans).



I have two ZS5v1 and would only sell one for no less than $100.


----------



## s8grave

Joining the rave about ZSN - they are awesome, KZ nailed it. Surprised, cause I thought it is just kind of redesign of ZSTs, but it sounds so different, incredible. Enjoying ZSN and AS10 - very different signature, but both models are brilliant.
Did anyone measured is there a difference between black and silver\purple models?


----------



## dondonut

s8grave said:


> Joining the rave about ZSN - they are awesome, KZ nailed it. Surprised, cause I thought it is just kind of redesign of ZSTs, but it sounds so different, incredible. Enjoying ZSN and AS10 - very different signature, but both models are brilliant.
> Did anyone measured is there a difference between black and silver\purple models?



Which one did you get?


----------



## TJK81

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> Unfortunately I couldn’t remove the back and take a peek inside. They are using the smallest Torx crews I’ve ever seen. My current set goes to T4 (which is ridiculously tiny), and these are even smaller than that haha. I’ll have to get a kit with even smaller bits.


In fact... mine doesnt have typical Torx screws. They have some kind of "reincarnatonion" of Torx with 5 lobes.
As far as i have ZSN's i have to agree with @Slater absolutely.
ZSN's are great. For less than 15buck is a must have. Good fit, great detailed sound with deep well controled and fast bass, present mids a crisp but not sibilant treble (with spiral dots). For 15bucks phenomenal build quality... Yeh... and cable... i love the cable... First one made by KZ without memory wire and suits ZSN's perfectly. I wish KZ started to manufacture every cable in this way. Perfect. My new daily driver.


----------



## youngarthur

Ive jumped on board the hype train, and purchased the ZSN.


----------



## s8grave

dondonut said:


> Which one did you get?


I got the purple\silver after checking info on this forum )) Cable feels really different: no more metal wire inside earhooks, less sticky, more like trn cables, but bad it won't fit into older models.


----------



## hakuzen (Nov 17, 2018)

received zsn from gearbest about 10 days ago. i'm trying them now.
first used this cheap great conductivity cable. noticed some grainy sound.
changed to a 7N OCC copper $120 cable to check, and yes, the responsible of the grainy sound was the cable (awesome conductivity, but they don't seem to be so good; hope it's a temporal or unit issue, because ordered 14 of these cables.. ouch).
$120 cable for $12 iems.. well, at least, i can listen to zsn while ensuring no cable issues; i recommend to get a high quality cable for this purpose (testing iems); got 2.5 mmcx cable; plus these adapters, in order to use the cable single ended, and with 2 pins iems, if needed:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32865122372.html (2.5 balanced to 3.5 single end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-7...e-se535-SE846-MMCX-converter/32829157980.html (mmcx to 2*0.78pins)
(you can find 2pins to mmcx adapter as well, and then get the quality cable ended at 2 pins; it depends of the type of plug of your best and most iems. i filed the pins of one of my adapters, to use it on 0.72mm iems, like flc8s).
this way you get a versatile high quality cable to test most iems on most sources.

zsn are spot on. suitable for every people liking different signatures. these are my impressions (using stock tips, no starlines, high quality copper cable, balanced mode in xduoo x20).
no excessive mid-bass, but quite enough for those looking for bassy iems. mids are not forwarded, but not recessed like other kzs. upper-mids are enough to get some air, avoiding dark signature, but not excessive to get sibilance or excessive glare. highs are rolled-off but not so down like last kzs. i usually like good levels of treble (perhaps higher than most people), and find highs level of zsn acceptable. they are not offensive nor fatiguing at any frequency; you can listen to them for hours, any genre, forgetting you have they on. so tonally speaking, one of the most, if not the best, balanced kz. (in my particular case, i'll tame a tad mid-bass, but just a tad, because i prefer a less dark sound).
about speed and thickness, they are warm, but not in excess. i'd like a faster and punchier bass, BA bass. and more resolution in every frequency. here is where you notice the difference with +$100 iems. but in terms of clarity and resolution, which affect to instrument separation, zsn are far above their price compared to others. due to their warmth, vocals have good body but not exaggerated (no reverberation).
it's difficult for me talking about how natural is the timbre. i'd say it's more in the fancy side, not so natural. but probably, more natural than other kzs or other iems priced 3x. i have to listen to them for more hours, and to do some A/B to appreciate this, and to confirm all these first impressions.
overall, incredible value for $12 iem. ordered 5 more at 11.11. all silver+purple (love purple as much as @mbwilson111 does, and always prefer natural silver to black paint for metals). look is superb.

edit: i need treble to be slightly louder, cymbals still sound far and low volume.
soundstage is average. not particularly wide, nor deep, nor tall. i ought to try zs5 v1, properly driven (got three, one blue, two grey -one of them with inverted connector-) to appreciate that holographic presentation you talk of.
comfort is good enough, but i experienced some pain after 2 hours: the shape of internal side press a lip; i prefer those with a dip for that lip.. lipdip diplip


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 17, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> received zsn from gearbest about 10 days ago. i'm trying them now.
> first used this cheap great conductivity cable. noticed some grainy sound.
> changed to a 7N OCC copper $120 cable to check, and yes, the responsible of the grainy sound was the cable (awesome conductivity, but they don't seem to be so good; hope it's a temporal or unit issue, because ordered 14 of these cables.. ouch).
> $120 cable for $12 iems.. well, at least, i can listen to zsn while ensuring no cable issues; i recommend to get a high quality cable for this purpose; got 2.5 mmcx cable; plus these adapters, in order to use the cable single ended, and with 2 pins iems, if needed:



The cable they come with is very nice.  Did you not try it at all?  Personally, I am not one to spend much on cables.  Because I am getting a second ZSN in black/cyan,  I probably will put a balanced cable on that at some point because I do have a couple of DAPs that have a balanced output  (Opus #1 and iBasso DX120).  It will not cost more than the iems though.  My ZSN sounds wonderful with the stock tips and stock cable..


----------



## Slater

BrunoC said:


> I have two ZS5v1 and would only sell one for no less than $100.



The sad thing, is that when 1st released, NO ONE wanted the ZS5 v1! You probably couldn’t have given one away!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 17, 2018)

s8grave said:


> ZSN cable feels really different: no more metal wire inside earhooks, less sticky, more like trn cables, but bad it won't fit into older models.


They gotta find a way to make more money selling extra add-on cables.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> The sad thing, is that when 1st released, NO ONE wanted the ZS5 v1! You probably couldn’t have given one away!



My husband has the blue ZS5v1.  I probably should have gotten the grey one but I never thought I wanted it.  At that time I had absolutely no interest in wearing cables over ear. 

I would not have ever gotten my green ZS6 if a duplicate had not arrived by accident.  My husband had done a lucky bag (gearbest I think) and it turned out  to be the green ZS6 which he already had!  So it became mine and I love it.


----------



## hakuzen

mbwilson111 said:


> The cable they come with is very nice.  Did you not try it at all?  Personally, I am not one to spend much on cables.  Because I am getting a second ZSN in black/cyan,  I probably will put a balanced cable on that at some point because I do have a couple of DAPs that have a balanced output  (Opus #1 and iBasso DX120.  It will not cost more than the iems though.  My ZSN sounds wonderful with the stock tips and stock cable..


i measured the stock cable, which looks nice, but didn't try it (excessive difference of 0.6ohms from left to right). i'll do.
yea, it's kind of stupid to get a cable more expensive than the iem. i only suggest to get a good versatile high quality cable for testing purposes, not to pair them with cheap iems daily.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BrunoC said:


> I have two ZS5v1 and would only sell one for no less than $100.


Thanks to the ZSN you might not have any takers.


----------



## mbwilson111

hakuzen said:


> i only suggest to get a good versatile high quality cable for testing purposes, not to pair them with cheap iems daily.



Oh, ok I understand.  I do not do testing.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Yikes, I foolishly picked the Black KZ ZSN when I used ThePhonograph.net's ZSN coupon for the AK audio store about a week before 11.11 because I was smitten by the colour far more than the other options, but now I'm worried it'll sound like garbage compared to the purple/silver model. By the time I actually paid for my order, AK Audio had no others available for purchase so I couldn't change colours. I don't have the budget to buy another ZSN atm but I'll definitely snag one when I get the chance!! I really need to remember that a great price/performance ratio should be my foremost priority in a budget IEM...


----------



## mbwilson111

SomeEntityThing said:


> Yikes, I foolishly picked the Black KZ ZSN when I used ThePhonograph.net's ZSN coupon for the AK audio store about a week before 11.11 because I was smitten by the colour far more than the other options, but now I'm worried it'll sound like garbage compared to the purple/silver model. By the time I actually paid for my order, AK Audio had no others available for purchase so I couldn't change colours. I don't have the budget to buy another ZSN atm but I'll definitely snag one when I get the chance!! I really need to remember that a great price/performance ratio should be my foremost priority in a budget IEM...



Don't worry.  It won't sound like garbage.  I seriously doubt that the different cable will make that much difference.  Just be excited to get it.  You will see.


----------



## Bartig

SomeEntityThing said:


> Yikes, I foolishly picked the Black KZ ZSN when I used ThePhonograph.net's ZSN coupon for the AK audio store about a week before 11.11 because I was smitten by the colour far more than the other options, but now I'm worried it'll sound like garbage compared to the purple/silver model. By the time I actually paid for my order, AK Audio had no others available for purchase so I couldn't change colours. I don't have the budget to buy another ZSN atm but I'll definitely snag one when I get the chance!! I really need to remember that a great price/performance ratio should be my foremost priority in a budget IEM...


Nobody says it sounds like garbage. Where do you get that from? Two or so impressions stating the cables are different, mostly in their looks? I wouldn't worry.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry.  It won't sound like garbage.  I seriously doubt that the different cable will make that much difference.  Just be excited to get it.  You will see.





Bartig said:


> Nobody says it sounds like garbage. Where do you get that from? Two or so impressions stating the cables are different, mostly in their looks? I wouldn't worry.



I admit "garbage" was too harsh a word, and apologize. "inferior" (compared to the other colours) would've been better to use. I'm just a tad disappointed hearing about these quality differences. Still, no excuse to act all peskily about it. It does seem like I will get a great sounding and looking IEM either way so I'm still quite excited. Thank you both for your encouragement.

The wait for the end of the labour Disruption stalling Canada Post begins. Hopefully, my package can arrive sooner rather than later in the week.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

SomeEntityThing said:


> I admit "garbage" was too harsh a word, and apologize. "inferior" (compared to the other colours) would've been better to use. I'm just a tad disappointed hearing about these quality differences. Still, no excuse to act all peskily about it. It does seem like I will get a great sounding and looking IEM either way so I'm still quite excited. Thank you both for your encouragement.
> 
> The wait for the end of the labour Disruption stalling Canada Post begins. Hopefully, my package can arrive sooner rather than later in the week.



I have the Black/Cyan, and I can tell you its friggen DOPE af. No need to worry at all. 

Also I believe you can just order the silver cable by itself, but the copper cable is nice. Plus it wont turn a nasty green color after a couple months.


----------



## antdroid

Yes I'm long overdue for my ZSN review at this point and havent even gotten close to starting it but it definitely is my favorite KZ IEM to date. The value to performance ratio is outstanding and the build is good, comfort is good, and the sound signature is wonderful for this price.

It's a no brainer really. I've recommended it to several people at work already who've seen it and then I showed them how much it costs on Amazon and they were instantly sold. They were pretty surprised that you could get a metal build IEM that sounds good and has detachable cables for $20.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

antdroid said:


> I've recommended it to several people at work already who've seen it and then I showed them how much it costs on Amazon and they were instantly sold. They were pretty surprised that you could get a metal build IEM that sounds good and has detachable cables for $20.



I'm pretty surprised at it too. I don't understand how its even possible. Mind is blown!


----------



## eclein

I have black/black and the stock cable is fine and they sound excellent. I did get the white cable like the pics showed and its a great sounding cable also. That whole thing about the silver zsn being the only one with a good cable hasn’t been proven yet has it? Did anyone do a specific A/B ? Either way the replacement or upgraded cable is inexpensive anyway.......I may grab a silver version sometime but not sure...
ZSN’s are excellent!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 17, 2018)

Gearbest told me today that the Tyrian Purple ZSN on their site has a different colored body than the Silver back/Purple body ZSN they call Viola Purple. However, they didn't say which color the faceplate was or the body, but they did point me to a photo of a Black ZSN. I then messaged them again and said that can't be the right photo.


----------



## Luxed

SomeEntityThing said:


> I admit "garbage" was too harsh a word, and apologize. "inferior" (compared to the other colours) would've been better to use. I'm just a tad disappointed hearing about these quality differences. Still, no excuse to act all peskily about it. It does seem like I will get a great sounding and looking IEM either way so I'm still quite excited. Thank you both for your encouragement.
> 
> The wait for the end of the labour Disruption stalling Canada Post begins. Hopefully, my package can arrive sooner rather than later in the week.


I'm in the same boat as you. I ordered them the 25th of last month. It arrived at Vancouver the 6th and it just made its way to Winnipeg. It's halfway there for me .

The KZ ZST Colorful was my first KZ, but it just broke. I was so amazed by it, I literally just bought it for the looks of them. But I didn't expect them to be so much more enjoyable than my Shure SE215... Those 100$ IEMs sound so dark and flat compared to the ZST.

Now I'm waiting to get the KZ AS10 (that I wanted to buy first) and my ZSN in purple/silver (because once again, they looked so cool that I just wanted them). Hope I won't be disappointed with the AS10


----------



## durwood (Nov 18, 2018)

eclein said:


> I have black/black and the stock cable is fine and they sound excellent. I did get the white cable like the pics showed and its a great sounding cable also. That whole thing about the silver zsn being the only one with a good cable hasn’t been proven yet has it? Did anyone do a specific A/B ? Either way the replacement or upgraded cable is inexpensive anyway.......I may grab a silver version sometime but not sure...
> ZSN’s are excellent!



1clearhead was the only one that has said they sound different (someone correct me if I am wrong). Someone else measured the impedance of the cables and found a difference, but we are talking tenths of an ohm... I would be willing to bet that you could have that variance with the same type of cable and connections. I don't see on any of the listings where there is a different cable other than color of wire, (again someone correct me if I am wrong). Not to discount 1clearhead's hearing, but I am skeptical there is a difference...blind testing would be needed to remove any bias for a color preference.

I have been holding off on buying it, I want a black green myself not a fan of pink. I bought enough recently, and was going to buy one later to scratch the itch of a new toy.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Gearbest told me today that the Tyrian Purple ZSN on their site has a different colored body than the Silver back/Purple body ZSN they call Viola Purple. However, they didn't say which color the faceplate was or the body, but they did point me to a photo of a Black ZSN. I then messaged them again and said that can't be the right photo.



Someone in the reviews on gearbest posted a picture of the Tyrian/purple. It looks like the Silver/purple. Wasn't the viola/purple the newly added color that no one seems to know what it is?

EDIT:

Ok found the cable picture differences and the impedance measurements.
ZSN Cable difference pictures
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2496#post-14569015
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2535#post-14598269

ZSN silver color cable impedance pretty consistent ~650mOhm
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2535#post-14597842

ZSN copper color cable impedance 350-1000mOhm, hmm
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2532#post-14596838

Hard to compare only one sampling, but I don't expect anyone here to do QC testing for KZ


----------



## SomeEntityThing (Nov 17, 2018)

Luxed said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. I ordered them the 25th of last month. It arrived at Vancouver the 6th and it just made its way to Winnipeg. It's halfway there for me .
> 
> The KZ ZST Colorful was my first KZ, but it just broke. I was so amazed by it, I literally just bought it for the looks of them. But I didn't expect them to be so much more enjoyable than my Shure SE215... Those 100$ IEMs sound so dark and flat compared to the ZST.
> 
> Now I'm waiting to get the KZ AS10 (that I wanted to buy first) and my ZSN in purple/silver (because once again, they looked so cool that I just wanted them). Hope I won't be disappointed with the AS10



My first KZ product was the latest generation KZ ATE, and my bridge into the Chi-Fi world. Admittedly I also bought them for their looks and their supposedly awesome sound (the gold-coloured weights for keeping the wire tucked around your ear was a nice touch). Paired with the AGPtek A02 (aka Ruizu X02) and some FLAC files, I was truly shocked by how much you could get out of so little money compared to other products. I've never actually owned any high-end audio products before that point so it may be strange for me to say but I've still become even more critical about dropping triple or even quadruple as much money for IEMs from "big name" brands than I was before.

This is probably a song sung so many times on this thread before, but now that I'm a First-year university student I'm so very grateful for what the Chi-Fi market offers for those willing to look inside and I hope more students realize there are many more audio products outside their local Best Buy that could help their budget. Seriously, if you came to my university you might be shocked to see the amount of Beats and Sony Extra Bass headphones. Maybe bass is the thing for my generation - I'm not judging if it is just because I also appreciate neutral sound sigs, I mean there's a reason why "V-Shaped" is synonymous with "Consumer-Oriented." But otherwise from my perspective - if I may put it so bluntly - they are all being... well, woefully _robbed_ unaware. Even if they like a lotta bass, there are so many Chi-FI IEMs that can pump out enough of it to satisfy and often even more for a fraction of the cost (KZ EDR1,  KZ ED9, KZ ZS3, KZ ZS5 v1, etc.) that I was SO overjoyed to meet *A* student who used the ATE as their daily driver. I swear we both connected on a spiritual level when we agreed KZ  was the way to go lol.

Anyways, I've got the NiceHCK Fukubukuro Lucky bag already in Canada too but it'll probably be delayed also. I'm surprised they used Expedited shipping for the package... no wonder why it arrived very quickly for some. Though I'm horrid with audiophile lingo I might share my thoughts on mine when it arrives (I got the black with no mic), idk. I hope you enjoy your KZ AS10! Though I don't own it myself, it seems to stand as a symbol for how far KZ has come!


----------



## manjunath1915

Is kz usb type c cable worth buying
I have zte axon 7 and ipad pro as source now
Will it be upgrade over both
My iems r kz zs5 kz es3 kzes4 now zsn
Kz zs5 sounded thin bassless due to high output impedance on axon 7
Will kz cable make difference
Or are there any better cable of sorts
Has anyone compared kz type c cable to dap audiophile smartphone like lg axon vivo meizu etc


----------



## manjunath1915

R there any news about new type c cable or bluetooth cable
I saw trn bt20 it seem amazing thougg


----------



## khighly (Nov 25, 2018)

Not sure if slater posted this yet, but hopefully I'm not spoiling his work . I went ahead and fixed my out of phase BT10's.







*For TRN BT10 Out Of Phase
*
* You will probably need a decent soldering iron with a small tip and some needle nose tweezers. These are extremely fragile small gauge magnet wire. This may break one or more of the plastic pins holding the case on, either glue it shut (probably won't need to be in here ever again) or see slater's later post on another solution.

Open case with the buttons and take off the side with the microphone. You can do this by squeezing it, using a plastic smudger/pry tool, or do the stupid things I do and put it in a pair of pliers and gently squeeze until one side cracks allowing you to pull up the case. Once open, the fix is fairly trivial, simply first double check which side is out of phase and then swap R+ & R-, *or* L+ and L- (circled in the image). There is no need to touch B+ and B-. The case should snap back together when finished. Make sure to align the rubber grommets so they sit inside the case, and make sure to check that the mic hole aligns with the microphone (grey component with holes on the board).

Another interesting note, I didn't see these doing AAC at first, only SBC...they've since linked up to bluetooth using AAC and sound great. My Pixel has aptX but I don't think it sounds any better than AAC.


----------



## CoiL (Nov 18, 2018)

Slater said:


> The sad thing, is that when 1st released, NO ONE wanted the ZS5 v1! You probably couldn’t have given one away!


That`s the sad thing about chi-fi - some hidden "producers" use feedback from ppl who have lousy or mediocre source gear(typical smartphone) to "re-adjust" their products.
ZS5v1 is like Havi B3Pro 1 - no amping - no rewarding sound! 
When I had B3P1, I didn`t have proper gear like now, unfortunately. But I would have sold them anyway cuz I hated the cable and fit.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks to the ZSN you might not have any takers.


Doubt it because ZS5v1 "holographic" soundstage is something to have and ZSN can`t match it


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

> Anyways, I've got the NiceHCK Fukubukuro Lucky bag already in Canada too but it'll probably be delayed also.


What's so special about this 'lucky bag' and how did you hear about it? Just searching NiceHCK's Aliexpress site?


----------



## SomeEntityThing (Nov 18, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's so special about this 'lucky bag' and how did you hear about it? Just searching NiceHCK's Aliexpress site?


So apparently NiceHCK sells a new "lucky bag" product around the time each 11.11 is. If you're not familiar with the concept of the lucky bag (in the Canadian anime conventions I've been to they've been called "grab bags"), it's basically something you're not 100% sure what it is exactly you've bought until you've opened it, though you are given a general idea of what may be inside. GearBest loves doing these more than AliExpress from what I hear.

Anyways NiceHCK's lucky bags have given respectable IEMs and Earbuds in the past which were apparently new products at the time their lucky bags were being sold. Apparently this year the product inside is also new. Notably, the lucky bags are much much cheaper around 11.11 and then skyrocket in price soon afterwards. For example, they were $13.22 CAD for a black IEM with no mic (I paid $7.58 CAD for mine because of an AliExpress coupon) but now it is $35.46 CAD.

I learned about the lucky bag from this chat: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/ and the page for the bag itself is: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...lgo_pvid=2b7dfa35-ee76-4d61-9181-47514e0d668b


----------



## stmiller

After hearing many good things about the zsn, i can't wait for mine to arrive so i can hear how it stacks up the planar i10. 

ZS6, my best kz model prior to ordering zsn really held its own against the i10 and only fell short in the soundstage dept (ko'ed), and 'thinness' of the sound.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 18, 2018)

stmiller said:


> After hearing many good things about the zsn, i can't wait for mine to arrive so i can hear how it stacks up the planar i10.


I've been seeing some more photos of the Black and then the Cyan lately and think the Black wins! But the Cyan seems to be more popular. However, the Silver/Purple will eventually kill them all.


----------



## sino8r

manjunath1915 said:


> R there any news about new type c cable or bluetooth cable
> I saw trn bt20 it seem amazing thougg



Who's gonna take the leap? I haven't had the best experience with truly wireless bluetooth myself but maybe the source will make a difference this time. Recently got the Samsung Note 9. So, I saw that it the BT20 is bluetooth 5.0 and wonder if it includes APTX?


----------



## sino8r

khighly said:


> Not sure if slater posted this yet, but hopefully I'm not spoiling his work . I went ahead and fixed my out of phase BT10's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice job! Just finished a project myself by changing from 2 pin to mmcx connections on my IMR R1. It's in that thread if anyone wants to see. I have some adaptors but they make the plugs way too long.


----------



## cacio (Nov 18, 2018)

sino8r said:


> Who's gonna take the leap? I haven't had the best experience with truly wireless bluetooth myself but maybe the source will make a difference this time. Recently got the Samsung Note 9. So, I saw that it the BT20 is bluetooth 5.0 and wonder if it includes APTX?


no aptx. i asked many aliexpress sellers. its a realtek chip, not a qualcomm one. so no aptx for sure. aac dont know.

but maybe if you have some know how of android modding, you could get SBC bitrate mode working

SBC specifications allow higher bitrate than currently used by manufacturers(mostly 384kbit max). like up to 512kbit. so even if SBC 384kbit sounds like 192kbit AAC, with 512kbit its like ~ 33% more bitrate which should be audible improvement

https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/improve-bluetooth-audio-quality-t3832615


and in the case of the TRN BT20: bluetooth 5.0 has now support for 1MBit/s , so maybe you could go even higher with the SBC bitrate. some people have reported that they got 617-660 kbit/s working (and that with <5.0)


----------



## sino8r

cacio said:


> no aptx. i asked many aliexpress sellers. its a realtek chip, not a qualcomm one. so no aptx for sure. aac dont know.
> 
> but maybe if you have some know how of android modding, you could get SBC bitrate mode working
> 
> ...



Good to know! Yeah, I recall now that SBC rates varied from BT versions. I got the Samsung Note 9 recently (stuck with the Note 4 forever because of the removable battery and sheer stubbornness) and it has some options for bt codex and bit rates in developer option that I didn't have before. No root unfortunately for my US model. This is the first time I haven't had root on a phone. Hasn't really been a problem since I got a good ad blocker. Android is so polished now that I really don't miss it. And it's funny you mentioned xda developers. I've been a long time member there since before Android and back to the Windows Mobile/Palm Treos lol!

I just hope the battery life and connection is decent. Most truly wireless can't past that 5 hr mark.


----------



## cacio

sino8r said:


> Good to know! Yeah, I recall now that SBC rates varied from BT versions. I got the Samsung Note 9 recently (stuck with the Note 4 forever because of the removable battery and sheer stubbornness) and it has some options for bt codex and bit rates in developer option that I didn't have before. No root unfortunately for my US model. This is the first time I haven't had root on a phone. Hasn't really been a problem since I got a good ad blocker. Android is so polished now that I really don't miss it. And it's funny you mentioned xda developers. I've been a long time member there since before Android and back to the Windows Mobile/Palm Treos lol!
> 
> I just hope the battery life and connection is decent. Most truly wireless can't past that 5 hr mark.




yeah since android 8, you have AAC, aptx, aptx HD, LDAC bluetooth codecs included in every phone. google has made a deal that its licence free now on android. only the "receiver" device has to pay licence fee for the codecs.

and who knows, maybe the TRN BT20 has AAC. we have to wait for the reviews

and regarding battery life, thats why i want to see something like TRN BT20 but with the new Qualcomm bluetooth 5.0 SoC. they should be up to 65% more efficient. so we could have ~10h play time instead of the ~5h. sadly there is not much info about the realtek 5.0 SoC, but looking from the specs on the aliexpress pages, it does not seem to be that the realtek 5.0 is that efficient


----------



## khighly

cacio said:


> yeah since android 8, you have AAC, aptx, aptx HD, LDAC bluetooth codecs included in every phone. google has made a deal that its licence free now on android. only the "receiver" device has to pay licence fee for the codecs.



Incorrect. This is entirely SoC dependent. Only a few of the more recent Qualcomm Snapdragons have aptX and I don't think any of them have LDAC (Sony, Qualcomm will never implement this) or aptX HD yet. My Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite with Snapdragon 625 only does SBC & AAC. It is correct that these codecs are _available_ in Android, but that doesn't mean you can use them.


----------



## cacio

khighly said:


> Incorrect. This is entirely SoC dependent. Only a few of the more recent Qualcomm Snapdragons have aptX and I don't think any of them have LDAC (Sony, Qualcomm will never implement this) or aptX HD yet. My Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite with Snapdragon 625 only does SBC & AAC. It is correct that these codecs are _available_ in Android, but that doesn't mean you can use them.




well, the Honor 9 from my sister (kirin 960) does have all the codecs. even with stock OS. but its running pure android (project Treble ) and its does have all the codecs also build in. 

and btw, when you have the A2 lite,  you have a possibility to flash a better custom ROM on your device which would definitely support all the codecs


----------



## eggnogg

cacio said:


> well, the Honor 9 from my sister (kirin 960) does have all the codecs. even with stock OS. but its running pure android (project Treble ) and its does have all the codecs also build in.
> 
> and btw, when you have the A2 lite,  you have a possibility to flash a better custom ROM on your device which would definitely support all the codecs



+1
either you install google stock android, or the OEM support it, chipset got nothing to do with it, purely software needed to support the codec.

from: https://www.androidauthority.com/sony-ldac-codec-790690/
Sony has its own high-end solution called LDAC. This technology had previously only been available on Sony’s Xperia range of handsets, but with the roll-out of Android 8.0 Oreo the Bluetooth codec will be available as part of the core AOSP code for other OEMS to implement, *if they wish*


----------



## cacio (Nov 18, 2018)

khighly said:


> Incorrect. This is entirely SoC dependent. Only a few of the more recent Qualcomm Snapdragons have aptX and I don't think any of them have LDAC (Sony, Qualcomm will never implement this) or aptX HD yet. My Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite with Snapdragon 625 only does SBC & AAC. It is correct that these codecs are _available_ in Android, but that doesn't mean you can use them.



so it seems lite xiaomi has simply ****ed up a little bit (not surprising)

you could simply try this mod

https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-a1/how-to/guide-enable-custom-bluetooth-audio-t3744371


----------



## khighly

cacio said:


> well, the Honor 9 from my sister (kirin 960) does have all the codecs. even with stock OS. but its running pure android (project Treble ) and its does have all the codecs also build in.
> 
> and btw, when you have the A2 lite,  you have a possibility to flash a better custom ROM on your device which would definitely support all the codecs



Still not true. The codecs are available baked into Android, but the hardware itself does not support it. The A2 lite is an Android One/Project Treble phone. There are options in my Snapdragon 821 Pixel for LDAC, however the Snapdragon 821 does not support it. Qualcomm based SoC's will not support Sony's LDAC. Snapdragon 835/845 also do not support LDAC, but do support aptX and aptX HD, however, these chips are only in very high end phones.

The Honor 9 is unique in that it does have a bunch of hardware supported codecs, however most Android phones do not.


----------



## khighly

cacio said:


> so it seems lite xiaomi has simply ****ed up a little bit (not surprising)
> 
> you could simply try this mod
> 
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-a1/how-to/guide-enable-custom-bluetooth-audio-t3744371



Also not true, also not the same phone. This is enabling the *manual* *selection* of aptX and aptX HD in the developer options settings (this was done in Android 8 by default), however you can't actually make the phone do aptX and aptX HD, it will always revert to SBC (625 does AAC too).

aptX and aptX HD are not supported per Qualcomm: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-625-mobile-platform


----------



## cacio

khighly said:


> Still not true. The codecs are available baked into Android, but the hardware itself does not support it. The A2 lite is an Android One/Project Treble phone. There are options in my Snapdragon 821 Pixel for LDAC, however the Snapdragon 821 does not support it. Qualcomm based SoC's will not support Sony's LDAC. Snapdragon 835/845 also do not support LDAC, but do support aptX and aptX HD, however, these chips are only in very high end phones.
> 
> The Honor 9 is unique in that it does have a bunch of hardware supported codecs, however most Android phones do not.




but the kirin 960 had no aptx, LDAC, or AAC codec support before oreo. the codecs are pure software. your hardware does not have to "support" it. its more of a false configuration on the OEM side like for example like the camera2 api which is disabled on many xiaomi dives although its supported on the hardware (and software) side. its just disabled


----------



## cacio (Nov 18, 2018)

khighly said:


> Also not true, also not the same phone. This is enabling the *manual* *selection* of aptX and aptX HD in the developer options settings (this was done in Android 8 by default), however you can't actually make the phone do aptX and aptX HD, it will always revert to SBC (625 does AAC too).
> 
> aptX and aptX HD are not supported per Qualcomm: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-625-mobile-platform



in this case, its not the same. the zip contains the missing aptx libs.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-3/themes/mod-aptx-codec-t3521228

take a look here which SoCs had aptx working after adding the missing libs

SD615
SD410
Exynos 4412
Nvidia Tegra K1
...


----------



## khighly

cacio said:


> but the kirin 960 had no aptx, LDAC, or AAC codec support before oreo. the codecs are pure software. your hardware does not have to "support" it. its more of a false configuration on the OEM side like for example like the camera2 api which is disabled on many xiaomi dives although its supported on the hardware (and software) side. its just disabled



Android implemented support for the other codecs in 8.0 and you can manually select/change them in developer options, however that doesn't mean your phone will support them. The Kirin 960 is high-end audio focused, so it's no surprise that these BT codecs are supported.


----------



## khighly

cacio said:


> in this case, its not the same. the zip contains the missing aptx libs.
> 
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-3/themes/mod-aptx-codec-t3521228
> 
> ...



Sure, my Pixel with 820/821 was enabled with aptX by Google because those SoC's supported aptX in the first place, so the OP3 will also have that ability. What you're saying doesn't change what I'm saying.


----------



## khighly (Nov 18, 2018)

cacio said:


> so it seems lite xiaomi has simply ****ed up a little bit (not surprising)
> 
> you could simply try this mod
> 
> https://forum.xda-developers.com/mi-a1/how-to/guide-enable-custom-bluetooth-audio-t3744371



Directly from the post:

>Also, the module is sometimes unstable. It reverts back to SBC even when we choose aptX or aptX HD. A simple reboot should solve that problem. After rebooting, before connecting the wireless, go to developer options and manually select the supported codec, and then connect.

This tells me aptX and aptX HD were never being enabled in the first place, just the developer settings menu lets you choose all codecs that Android knows.

My Mi A2 Lite has all of these enabled, but will not do aptX, aptX HD, or LDAC even when manually selecting them. If I manually select them, it'll _say _it's now working in anything I choose, but will revert after a few minutes because it's not supported.







I also had a Sony receiver for home theater that had LDAC support, my Pixel even after 8.0 & all available codecs listed in Developer Options, would not transmit LDAC to it.

LDAC in a Qualcomm chip defies the laws of everyday capitalism.


----------



## sino8r (Nov 18, 2018)

khighly said:


> Incorrect. This is entirely SoC dependent. Only a few of the more recent Qualcomm Snapdragons have aptX and I don't think any of them have LDAC (Sony, Qualcomm will never implement this) or aptX HD yet. My Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite with Snapdragon 625 only does SBC & AAC. It is correct that these codecs are _available_ in Android, but that doesn't mean you can use them.



The newer Samsungs (S8/Note 8 and above) support LDAC. One of the main reasons I got my Sony MUC-M2BT1. The funny thing is my Note 9 doesn't support APTX-HD. And we're talking about Qualcomm models too. Makes no sense...

Futher research shows that Samsung had issues with aptx-HD and is adding aptx adaptive at some point.


----------



## khighly

sino8r said:


> The newer Samsungs (S8/Note 8 and above) support LDAC. One of the main reasons I got my Sony MUC-M2BT1. The funny thing is my Note 9 doesn't support APTX-HD. And we're talking about Qualcomm models too. Makes no sense...



Sweet! I'm not saying all phones don't have full codec support, however_ a lot_ of phones don't even have basic aptX support other than an option in Developer Settings. The Note 9 might not support it because they use Exynos & Qualcomm variants and maybe the Exynos doesn't have the proprietary licensing from Qualcomm so they gimp the 845's native support for it to keep them equal?


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Not sure if slater posted this yet, but hopefully I'm not spoiling his work . I went ahead and fixed my out of phase BT10's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You beat me to it. I was working on the repair guide this weekend.

Nice job, and thanks for posting it. It should help out a lot of folks


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

What's up with the new ZS3E? Is it just the red body and silver cable or do you think there will be a change in physical sound?


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Who's gonna take the leap? I haven't had the best experience with truly wireless bluetooth myself but maybe the source will make a difference this time. Recently got the Samsung Note 9. So, I saw that it the BT20 is bluetooth 5.0 and wonder if it includes APTX?



I bought them during 11.11, so they are on the way.

And no, unfortunately it doesn’t include aptX.


----------



## jibberish

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's up with the new ZS3E? Is it just the red body and silver cable or do you think there will be a change in physical sound?


I was under the impression that it is essentially the ZS4 with the BA driver removed. At least it seems that way from the pictures and driver descriptions on their AE listings for the ZS3E and ZS4.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Other than picking up a couple of pairs of ZSA, I haven't bought any IEMs since last year around this time, so I am a little bit out of the loop. It seems pretty obvious people love the ZSN. I am going to pick up a set for myself and a friend. They are currently $14 on Gearbest, is that a good price or should  I hang in there for some coupon codes from George?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Other than picking up a couple of pairs of ZSA, I haven't bought any IEMs since last year around this time, so I am a little bit out of the loop. It seems pretty obvious people love the ZSN. I am going to pick up a set for myself and a friend. They are currently $14 on Gearbest, is that a good price or should  I hang in there for some coupon codes from George?


How do you like the ZSA? I see they are sold for around $15 but no one is talking about them here.

Don't hang in there for a coupon code, order the ZSN if you want them.


----------



## Slater (Nov 18, 2018)

stmiller said:


> After hearing many good things about the zsn, i can't wait for mine to arrive so i can hear how it stacks up the planar i10.
> 
> ZS6, my best kz model prior to ordering zsn really held its own against the i10 and only fell short in the soundstage dept (ko'ed), and 'thinness' of the sound.



Eh, I have never heard the i10, but don’t get your hopes up too much. The ZSN is good *for a KZ. *It is going to fall behind when compared to higher end IEMs.

I liken the ZSN to the Toyota Camry. It’s good for what it is. An awesome all-rounder - it appeals to most people, it’s the best made Toyota model hands down, a tremendous value, good build quality, reliable, good performance, etc. But compare it to a BMW 7-series or a Bugatti and it isn’t going to compare because that’s not what the Toyota Camry was ever designed to compete against. The direct comparison just wouldn’t be fair.

So I’m just saying, you may want to be prepared for disappointment. Or at the least, set your expectations appropriately and realistically.


----------



## Bartig

Slater said:


> Eh, I have never heard the i10, but don’t get your hopes up too much. The ZSN is good *for a KZ. *It is going to fall behind when compared to higher end IEMs.
> 
> I liken the ZSN to the Toyota Camry. It’s good for what it is. An awesome all-rounder - it appeals to most people, it’s the best made Toyota model hands down, a tremendous value, good build quality, reliable, good performance, etc. But compare it to a BMW 7-series or a Bugatti and it isn’t going to compare because that’s not what the Toyota Camry was ever designed to compete against. The direct comparison just wouldn’t be fair.
> 
> So I’m just saying, you may want to be prepared for disappointment. Or at the least, set your expectations appropriately and realistically.


I understand your comparison, but isn't it off? When are people passionate about Toyota's? They sure are passionate about the ZSN...


----------



## zikarus (Nov 18, 2018)

Well I have to chime in too. Have my silver/purple ZSN since Friday and have been listening to it via this weekend. To cut the long story short - this iem really is amazingly good. At first listen the bass appeared a bit to boomy with some genres imo (eg dvsn 1. LP). But over time things straightened out in that respect. Mids and highs were nice and detailed from the beginning and simply quite right in my book. Was especially stunned how well this gem pairs with classical music. The soundstage could be larger, yes, but the signature just seems perfect to my ears as it adds a good amount of rumbling bass when needed which I often missed with my Flares SS. Listen to the Introduction of Wagners Rheingold out of Soltis legendary Ring (24-96 VINYL rip, not the lame 2014 24-48 Hires) and you may understand what I am talking about....


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## Slater (Nov 18, 2018)

Bartig said:


> I understand your comparison, but isn't it off? When are people passionate about Toyota's? They sure are passionate about the ZSN...



I know a lot of people who are passionate about many cars, including Toyotas. Being passionate about something transcends its cost.

People are passionate about the KZ EDR1 (myself included), and it costs a paltry $3. But as passionate as I am about it, I wouldn’t compare it to the TinAudio T2 or Campfire Comet. That just wouldn’t be fair.

The comparison with the Camry was because it was an appropriate analogy to the $12 ZSN, which I still stand behind.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Eh, I have never heard the i10, but don’t get your hopes up too much. The ZSN is good *for a KZ. *It is going to fall behind when compared to higher end IEMs.
> 
> I liken the ZSN to the Toyota Camry. It’s good for what it is. An awesome all-rounder - it appeals to most people, it’s the best made Toyota model hands down, a tremendous value, good build quality, reliable, good performance, etc. But compare it to a BMW 7-series or a Bugatti and it isn’t going to compare because that’s not what the Toyota Camry was ever designed to compete against. The direct comparison just wouldn’t be fair.
> 
> So I’m just saying, you may want to be prepared for disappointment. Or at the least, set your expectations appropriately and realistically.



I think it is more like KIA stinger than a camry.


----------



## Bartig

voicemaster said:


> I think it is more like KIA stinger than a camry.


Yes!


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## TheVortex (Nov 19, 2018)

I just found the KZ IE80 for sale on AlieExpress and is it worth buying?

I thought this was discontinued years ago?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-KZ-IE80-KZ-IE80-Ie800-Super-Bass-DIY-Metal-Earphone-3-5mm-In-Ear-Earbuds/32526167083.html

Sorry for the super long link.

Also like the EDR1 that Slater posted 2 posts up, are they still worth buying just for a pair of backup earphones considering I already have a bunch of KZ's?


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## BadReligionPunk

Kia stinger is still serious cash. 32-35K is still some serious loot. ZSN is like getting a Kia Stinger but only paying Nissan Versa price. LOL


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> I just found the KZ IE80 for sale on AlieExpress and is it worth buying?
> 
> I thought this was discontinued years ago?
> 
> ...



It’s just old stock. And really only worth getting from a collectibility standpoint. KZ has come a looooong way since the IE80.


----------



## Mellowship

BrunoC said:


> I have two ZS5v1 and would only sell one for no less than $100.


So, now we have at least 5 of them in the same town.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> It’s just old stock. And really only worth getting from a collectibility standpoint. KZ has come a looooong way since the IE80.



I myself like them a lot, but they are not worth that price when compared to other IEMs. 15 - 17 would be the maximum I'd pay for them, considering they are not for every ears, they have a strange fitting, the lack of sub bass, problems with the polarity of the cable (kz being kz...). But their mids are great, soundstage is wide, the bass adjustment screws do work, and they are quite enjoyable. 
I still use mine from time to time.


----------



## Mellowship

khighly said:


> Still not true. The codecs are available baked into Android, but the hardware itself does not support it. The A2 lite is an Android One/Project Treble phone. There are options in my Snapdragon 821 Pixel for LDAC, however the Snapdragon 821 does not support it. Qualcomm based SoC's will not support Sony's LDAC. Snapdragon 835/845 also do not support LDAC, but do support aptX and aptX HD, however, these chips are only in very high end phones.
> 
> The Honor 9 is unique in that it does have a bunch of hardware supported codecs, however most Android phones do not.



My Honor 8 (kirin 950) has all bt options since the Oreo update, and when I chose aptx from the developer menu, it will keep that choice with aptx devices. It only reverts to sbc when I connect something that is not aptx, like the kz bt cable. With my AKG Y45BT, which is one of the oldest headphones with aptx, that selection will activate. Is it possible that I'm not getting aptx even when the software tells me that I am? Is the system fooling me?


----------



## Slater

Mellowship said:


> I myself like them a lot, but they are not worth that price when compared to other IEMs. 15 - 17 would be the maximum I'd pay for them, considering they are not for every ears, they have a strange fitting, the lack of sub bass, problems with the polarity of the cable (kz being kz...). But their mids are great, soundstage is wide, the bass adjustment screws do work, and they are quite enjoyable.
> I still use mine from time to time.



Also the AT style cable is very fragile and breaks easily.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> Also the AT style cable is very fragile and breaks easily.


Mine didn't have the chance to break, never used it for more than 10 minutes until figuring the polarity issue. Dreadful cable... Had to put the shells aside while waiting for a third party one to come in the slow boat from China. Even with all these drawbacks I could not quit the IE80. And yes, I love my '93 Corolla...


----------



## mbwilson111

TheVortex said:


> Sorry for the super long link.



What we are supposed to do with those super long links is remove everything after the .html


----------



## sino8r

Mellowship said:


> My Honor 8 (kirin 950) has all bt options since the Oreo update, and when I chose aptx from the developer menu, it will keep that choice with aptx devices. It only reverts to sbc when I connect something that is not aptx, like the kz bt cable. With my AKG Y45BT, which is one of the oldest headphones with aptx, that selection will activate. Is it possible that I'm not getting aptx even when the software tells me that I am? Is the system fooling me?



The only way it SHOULD do that is if you are connected, you select the option, and it reverts back. At least that's what it does in developer options. Sometimes they are greyed out depending on the device.


----------



## Mellowship

sino8r said:


> The only way it SHOULD do that is if you are connected, you select the option, and it reverts back. At least that's what it does in developer options. Sometimes they are greyed out depending on the device.


With the AKG, I can select from sbc, aac and aptx. When I toggle between them I'll ear a beep on the headphones. The other codecs are not greyed out but I can't choose them. Once I chose aptx, it will keep it steady. 
With the kzs, only sbc and aac are possible.


----------



## sino8r

Mellowship said:


> With the AKG, I can select from sbc, aac and aptx. When I toggle between them I'll ear a beep on the headphones. The other codecs are not greyed out but I can't choose them. Once I chose aptx, it will keep it steady.
> With the kzs, only sbc and aac are possible.



That does sound strange. I wonder if you tried a different source if it would show then?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you like the ZSA? I see they are sold for around $15 but no one is talking about them here.
> 
> Don't hang in there for a coupon code, order the ZSN if you want them.


I really like the ZSA, it's too bad they don't get as much love around here as they should. I think the 'problem' with them is that they are the middle child in the KZ lineup. I have three IEMs in my daily rotation: ES3, ZSA and ZS5. In terms of over all sound quality ZS5 is my favorite, I like the soundstage/deep bass and detailed treble but it can get fatiguing. The ES3 is more chill in terms of sound, it fits better and it's more isolating. It has a smoother sound and I sometimes wear them all day. The ZSA slots right in the middle...it's closer in sound to the ZS5 (I think of it as my mini ZS5) bass/treble/soundstage are similar just scaled back a bit in every regard. (soundstage I think is noticeably better on the ZS5, but on a daily driver IEM that's the last thing on my list of concerns) 
I like their small size, (it's pretty tiny for an IEM of this type) they are easy to put on, comfortable, and they stay in place relatively well. In terms of form factor/ergonomics, it's right in the middle of the three. 
In the best way possible, it's the middle child of my three IEMS...sounds better than the ES3, not quite as good as the ZS5, fits better than the ZS5, not as good as the ES3...if I could only have one iem out of the three, it would probably be the one I keep...but I 'like' the other two more...maybe?


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## khighly (Nov 18, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> My Honor 8 (kirin 950) has all bt options since the Oreo update, and when I chose aptx from the developer menu, it will keep that choice with aptx devices. It only reverts to sbc when I connect something that is not aptx, like the kz bt cable. With my AKG Y45BT, which is one of the oldest headphones with aptx, that selection will activate. Is it possible that I'm not getting aptx even when the software tells me that I am? Is the system fooling me?



I don't know about the Honor 8, but what you're describing sounds like expected 8.0+ behavior. aptX should stay on in developer options when an aptX capable device is connected with an aptX capable phone. It will change back to another codec after awhile if it's not the right codec.

The device has to have bluetooth circuitry capable of streaming high bit rates, many cannot do LDAC because of its high bitrate, some cannot even do aptX. While the codecs are software, hardware is required to stream at high bitrates. I imagine every BT 5.0 device will be capable of all current codecs, though the licensing will be necessary.


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## B9Scrambler (Nov 19, 2018)

Bartig said:


> I understand your comparison, but isn't it off? When are people passionate about Toyota's? They sure are passionate about the ZSN...



Tons of people are passionate about Toyotas. Here's one you might know of. Corolla Levin AE86; https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-is-why-the-toyota-ae86-is-so-damn-legendary/

My personal fav is the 2nd gen Celica Supra. This late '85 I owned very briefly (and the '98 Corolla you can barely see as well, which stuck around in our family for a looooong time):


 

Had some uncommon features like a fully digital dash and some other cool stuff. Unfortunately that bit of rust bottom of the rear fender was just a small sample of the rot going on beneath the interior panels in the rear . Too costly to save. One day I'll find another one in better condition. Hard to get in Canada though. Thank you government and their love of salting roads...m*******s.


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## Cruelhand Luke

B9Scrambler said:


> Tons of people are passionate about Toyotas. Here's one you might know of. Corolla Levin AE86; https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-is-why-the-toyota-ae86-is-so-damn-legendary/
> 
> My personal fav is the 2nd gen Celica Supra. This late '85 I owned very briefly (and the '98 Corolla you can barely see as well, which stuck around in our family for a looooong time):
> 
> ...


a good friend of mine had a Celica Supra back in the late 80s and I had an 87' Sirocco ...between the two I liked mine better, it felt more planted and seemed to like to be pushed harder...but the Celica Supra is a forgotton gem.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Cruelhand Luke said:


> a good friend of mine had a Celica Supra back in the late 80s and I had an 87' Sirocco ...between the two I liked mine better, it felt more planted and seemed to like to be pushed harder...but the Celica Supra is a forgotton gem.



Supra wasn't really a performer. Too long and heavy. More of a cruiser  Siroccos were pretty boss. There are a few kicking around here still.


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## Zerohour88

B9Scrambler said:


> Tons of people are passionate about Toyotas. Here's one you might know of. Corolla Levin AE86; https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-is-why-the-toyota-ae86-is-so-damn-legendary/
> 
> My personal fav is the 2nd gen Celica Supra. This late '85 I owned very briefly (and the '98 Corolla you can barely see as well, which stuck around in our family for a looooong time):
> 
> ...



The Hachiroku is truly an iconic car, also due to the Initial-D anime here in Asia. Car nuts would clamor to get one to restore and then play some Eurobeat on it while drifting around corners.

At the very least, every time No One Sleeps In Tokyo or Deja Vu comes up on the playlist, all I can imagine are cars drifting around corners (and they're good tot test bass speed for IEMs too)


----------



## Audiostart

Some of you please write in the auto section. Personal messages between enthusiasts would be good too. 
On topic - I'll just stick with ED16, don't have other KZ's to compare. There's not enough in BA's tuning or whatever, high frequencies sound to me a little weird. And sibilant....I hate that. I decided to go for the "fewer is better" path, now turned attention to earbuds.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Audiostart said:


> Some of you please write in the auto section. Personal messages between enthusiasts would be good too.
> On topic - I'll just stick with ED16, don't have other KZ's to compare. There's not enough in BA's tuning or whatever, high frequencies sound to me a little weird. And sibilant....I hate that. I decided to go for the "fewer is better" path, now turned attention to earbuds.


you're not the boss of me. I'll talk about cars if  I want!


----------



## Audiostart

Cruelhand Luke said:


> you're not the boss of me. I'll talk about cars if  I want!



I am nobody's boss other than myself, but there's also common sense that makes me to stay on topic and not waste other people's time. Read the title of the topic again, maybe you'll understand. Have a nice day!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Audiostart said:


> I am nobody's boss other than myself, but there's also common sense that makes me to stay on topic and not waste other people's time. Read the title of the topic again, maybe you'll understand. Have a nice day!


pretty sure the topic is the mid 80s rear wheel drive Toyota Corollas AND KZ iems...if we collectively want it to be.
Don't try to nanny the thread buddy, it is a flowing river, it can handle slight meanderings, sometimes we don't talk about the EXACT thing the thread is about, and that's good, it keeps things fresh.
I'll be here after you are gone... because the thread meanders at times.


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## sino8r

Cruelhand Luke said:


> you're not the boss of me. I'll talk about cars if  I want!



Lol! I thought he wanted more company and posts in auto section but he just asked for us to stay on topic! Too funny!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Audiostart said:


> Some of you please write in the auto section. Personal messages between enthusiasts would be good too.
> On topic - I'll just stick with ED16, don't have other KZ's to compare. There's not enough in BA's tuning or whatever, high frequencies sound to me a little weird. And sibilant....I hate that. I decided to go for the "fewer is better" path, now turned attention to earbuds.



Thank the gods! The Time Police are here! You want to stop by The Discovery Thread and help them take the burn-in discussion to the Sound Science forum where it belongs?

Now where were we? Oh yes, bringing up Hachiroku and Initial D reminds me of my special edition ZSTs with the anime reference on them. Some pretty sweet stuff right there.


----------



## sino8r

I'll never forget when my friend was driving his Toyota Supra down the interstate racing me in my Chevy Camaro and his engine caught on fire! That was the funniest thing and we still laugh about it 20 years later.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

B9Scrambler said:


> Thank the gods! The Time Police are here! You want to stop by The Discovery Thread and help them take the burn-in discussion to the Sound Science forum where it belongs?
> can we divert him into some kind of a DBS loop to get him out of our hair?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I worked in the auto industry for years and had the opportunity to drive literally hundreds of different cars...but I never got to drive an Hachiroku ...they seem so fun.
and I bought a zsn and am waiting for it to show up...hey, we drifted back on topic! (see what I did there, drifted?)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Cruelhand Luke said:


> hey, we drifted back on topic! (see what I did there, drifted?)


You better start drifting mister! Turn that corner quickly and start talking about KZ headphones again, not cars!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Audiostart said:


> I decided to go for the "fewer is better" path, now turned attention to earbuds.


Lol, earbuds... I have a whole wack of them I wish I never bought. I feel sorry for you.  IEM's are better.


----------



## antdroid

khighly said:


> Still not true. The codecs are available baked into Android, but the hardware itself does not support it. The A2 lite is an Android One/Project Treble phone. There are options in my Snapdragon 821 Pixel for LDAC, however the Snapdragon 821 does not support it. Qualcomm based SoC's will not support Sony's LDAC. Snapdragon 835/845 also do not support LDAC, but do support aptX and aptX HD, however, these chips are only in very high end phones.
> 
> The Honor 9 is unique in that it does have a bunch of hardware supported codecs, however most Android phones do not.



My Snapdragon 835 Essential Phone has support of all bluetooth codecs (SBC, AptX, AptX HD, AAC and LDAC) -- i use LDAC with the ES100 all the time.


----------



## scottySK (Nov 19, 2018)

I find my ZS10's to be slightly more recessed in the mid range when compared to my 2009 Toyota Corolla Levin SX, however I must admit I do prefer the use of metal components in the Toyota, unlike the all plastic construction of the ZS10's


----------



## CoiL

zikarus said:


> The soundstage could be larger...


I WILL improve it! Mission accepted! ;P


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 20, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Tons of people are passionate about Toyotas. Here's one you might know of. Corolla Levin AE86; https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-is-why-the-toyota-ae86-is-so-damn-legendary/
> 
> My personal fav is the 2nd gen Celica Supra. This late '85 I owned very briefly (and the '98 Corolla you can barely see as well, which stuck around in our family for a looooong time):
> 
> ...



LOL, I had both of those as well. Actually, mine was the Celica GTS (manual) and not the Supra. 




 

Loved it so much that when I blew the engine I paid a race engineer cash to rebuild it. I remember how cool the mag wheels, flared fenders and sport seats were.

The Corolla GTS (AE86) was cool too.......



 

 .....because it was slightly more agile. It just wasn't as cool as my Celica GTS.


To get back on topic I've pulled out my old skool KZ's and the KZ veterans will be glad to hear that the BA10 actually sounds more like the ED3 "The Acme" than it does the ZS3.



 

The BA10 sound signature is nearly identical to the ED3 "The Acme" but the bass is much cleaner; the resolution, imaging, separation and imaging are all improved across the board. Pull out your ED3 "The Acme" (Youth version) and listen to one of your favorite tracks; try to imagine an extremely clean presentation of what you are hearing. That is the BA10 in a nutshell. 


Once again, props to Igor for the graph. The blue line is more in line with what I am hearing (less mid-bass hump) from the BA10. The ED3 "Acme" starts to roll off at about 60hz but the BA10 has better extension all the way into the 15hz region, and again, that bass is sooooo much cleaner.



 

To be fair I should remove those red vinyl grills that are staring right at me. Maybe I'll get a cleaner presentation from "The Acme". 



 

Be aware that my BA10 has the grill removed, the foam removed and whirlwind (wide-bore) eartips affixed. I could not fit wide-bore eartips on the ED3's smaller nozzles so the comparison is a little off. That said, I'm pretty sure I identified the sound signature correctly. I paid $10 a set for the ED3's when they were released and that was a great deal. The BA10 at  $75+/-  is still a great deal in my opinion.

Full disclosure:

I didn't pay full price for mine but considering the build quality and tuning I think $75+/- is more than reasonable "IF" you don't have small ears and if you can get a good seal.


----------



## ketanbony

antdroid said:


> My Snapdragon 835 Essential Phone has support of all bluetooth codecs (SBC, AptX, AptX HD, AAC and LDAC) -- i use LDAC with the ES100 all the time.



Even I use my Pixel 2(Snapdragon 821) with Shanling M0 in LDAC mode and it shows LDAC on the screen if I have enabled LDAC on my Pixel 2.As per my understanding LDAC is software and APTX and APTX HD should have Qualcomm hardware as well.IMHO.


----------



## sino8r

ketanbony said:


> Even I use my Pixel 2(Snapdragon 821) with Shanling M0 in LDAC mode and it shows LDAC on the screen if I have enabled LDAC on my Pixel 2.As per my understanding LDAC is software and APTX and APTX HD should have Qualcomm hardware as well.IMHO.



It's all software and library files that enable it but like you said the chipset has to support it as well. 

By the way, for those curious about Samsung bluetooth from earlier... 

I was doing some research as to why only LDAC is on Samsungs and not APTX-HD as well. Turns out that Samsung claims that they had skipping issues with APTX-HD and that they plan to support APTX Adaptive (which is includes both aptx and APTX-HD). I think it will be added with Android Pie update whenever that is.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

What do you say to an Audiophile when he farts? The soundstage could be wider.

I know you're all going to come up with bass jokes.  (or better ones than me.


----------



## CoiL

I totally missed the ED3/HDS1 train... liked the yellow HDS1 but never got one...





But instead I luckily have this:


Spoiler: car


----------



## ketanbony

sino8r said:


> It's all software and library files that enable it but like you said the chipset has to support it as well.
> 
> By the way, for those curious about Samsung bluetooth from earlier...
> 
> I was doing some research as to why only LDAC is on Samsungs and not APTX-HD as well. Turns out that Samsung claims that they had skipping issues with APTX-HD and that they plan to support APTX Adaptive (which is includes both aptx and APTX-HD). I think it will be added with Android Pie update whenever that is.




What I am trying to say is LDAC is software only and from android Oreo onwards it is available on all phones running android Oreo but Aptx , Aptx hd needs a hardware as well.
However to be connected by LDAC codec source and headphones/iem/speakers should both be LDAC compatible.This is true for every codec like Aptx or LDAC except SBC codec which is the default Bluetooth codec nowadays.
Even if one of the chain is not LDAC the connection will "downgrade" to SBC.
This is my understanding.


----------



## loomisjohnson

the bears won last night, so i celebrated by ordering a zsn, which has finally won  the hotly contested crown of "most-hyped kz ever." the usual cycle is:
1. a month or so of pre-release anticipation/speculation and hyperbolic reviews by paid review sites;
2. a week of gushing praise by early adopters; and
3. another week of more critical evaluation and contrary opinions; and finally
4. a new kz comes out and the previous release is forgotten.
in the case of the zsn, however, the gushing praise cycle seems somewhat longer which suggests that either this is a real groundbreaking iem or the brand has evolved to a new level. time will tell...


----------



## toddy0191

loomisjohnson said:


> the bears won last night, so i celebrated by ordering a zsn, which has finally won  the hotly contested crown of "most-hyped kz ever." the usual cycle is:
> 1. a month or so of pre-release anticipation/speculation and hyperbolic reviews by paid review sites;
> 2. a week of gushing praise by early adopters; and
> 3. another week of more critical evaluation and contrary opinions; and finally
> ...



Along with the AS10s they're KZs best effort to date IMO.  For pure price to performance though the ZSNs win. 

I took a couple of day break from them and when I came back to them they still had the wow factor for me. 

It's all about the bass for me; balanced, clean, quick and tight with great sub bass.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 20, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I totally missed the ED3/HDS1 train... liked the yellow HDS1 but never got one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks like an Opel. We only had two Opel models imported to the U.S. if I remember correctly.  I only remember one of the the models because a friend of mine collected them (Opel Gt).



Spoiler





 






The HDS1 is a great old skool KZ. I usually prefer more extension in the lower and upper ends but they are a great listen if you enjoy forward vocals, are treble-sensitive or prefer the low end to be reigned in considerably.



 


I use Philip's SHE3580 silicone eartips and I think I paid $6 a piece for my HDS1's.




 

They are so small. See how large the eartip looks compared to the IEM?



 


 

Here they are in comparison to the ED3 "Acme".





The ED3 "Acme" (mild "V" signature) and the HDS1 (mildly inverted "V" signature) are both quite good. I like them both more than the ATE(ii). I'd say that the original ATR(i) with its ABS dynamic driver is on the same performance level; all three being very good for their ridiculously low prices.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Lol, earbuds... I have a whole wack of them I wish I never bought. I feel sorry for you.  IEM's are better.



I am enjoying both earbuds and iems.   Some of my earbuds sound like full sized open headphones to me. Sometimes buds are better.  Sometimes iems are better.  Sometimes headphones are better. Sometimes speakers are better. Sometimes silence is better.  

...and then there is live music.


----------



## eggnogg (Nov 19, 2018)

its here, ZSN BT cable
on KZ official store
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ord-Applies-Original/1358152_32955926330.html



Spoiler: [][]


----------



## stmiller

I really hope kz incorporate the 10mm dynamic of the zsn into the upcoming ZS7.. 

(10mm+8mm) DD's + 5ba's


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 19, 2018)

Is there a ZSN balanced cable yet?  If I am going to have two ZSN,  I want to use one of them balanced.  My iBasso DX120 has an excellent balanced output.  My **** PT15 sounds amazing with it.


----------



## TheVortex

mbwilson111 said:


> What we are supposed to do with those super long links is remove everything after the .html



Fixed. Sorry about that.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

stmiller said:


> I really hope kz incorporate the 10mm dynamic of the zsn into the upcoming ZS7..
> 
> (10mm+8mm) DD's + 5ba's


The 7S7 is the ED16.  Are they making a real 7S7 now? Do they have a webpage stating that?


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The 7S7 is the ED16.  Are they making a real 7S7 now? Do they have a webpage stating that?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 19, 2018)

toddy0191 said:


> Along with the AS10s they're KZs best effort to date IMO.  For pure price to performance though the ZSNs win.



If someone has the AS10 and they're that good, is there a point in buying another KZ?

What about the BA10? It costs more than the AS10. Shouldn't it be better?


----------



## BrunoC

Mellowship said:


> So, now we have at least 5 of them in the same town.



Wow! Porto must the Portuguese Capital of Chifi


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 19, 2018)

KZ has created an endless money making bank machine. I call their sound credit card audio.

We keep buying all their new hyped models that come out, but we do it usually independently, so buy them blindly.

However, we're spending more and more money each time, when we could just buy their best model and be done with it.

I have the ATR, ED7, ZS3, ZST, ES4, ED16, and some other discontinued model... I had the ED9 but it disappeared.

Do I really need all those? I need to find a local KZ fan to sell them to. 

KZ is hiring better people to work there as 2018 is their best yet. More KZ's to buy!


----------



## BrunoC

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone has the AS10 and they're that good, is there a point in buying another KZ?
> 
> What about the BA10? It costs more than the AS10. Shouldn't it be better?



a) It's a KZ .

b) You're already on HeadFi  


a + b = You Will Buy Another KZ


----------



## Slater (Nov 19, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ has created an endless money making bank machine. I call their sound credit card audio.
> 
> We keep buying all their new hyped models that come out, but we do it usually independently, so buy them blindly.
> 
> ...



That’s true of most companies haha

Also, keep in mind the “best” KZ isn’t necessary the most expensive model. I haven’t spent a single penny on any of their TOTL models - ZS10, AS10, BA10.

In theory you COULD just buy their best sounding model and be done with it. It just depends on what sound signature or characteristics you’re after, as that’s different for different people.


----------



## toddy0191 (Nov 19, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone has the AS10 and they're that good, is there a point in buying another KZ?
> 
> What about the BA10? It costs more than the AS10. Shouldn't it be better?


 
KZs are the Pokémon of the earphone world; gotta catch 'em all!

The ZSN and the AS10 have different signatures so complement each other.

Sine people collect stuff like Sylvanian Families or Star Wars toys. At least headphones / earphones are functional.

I like listening to one earphone for a while and when my brain gets used to it switch to another with a different signature.  It keeps everything sounding new and exciting. It's also a cheap way to try out technological developments.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> KZs are the Pokémon of the earphone world; gotta catch 'em all!
> 
> The ZSN and the AS10 have different signatures so complement each other.
> 
> ...



I compare it not necessary to collecting, but rather to tasting different wines, spirits, or beers.

I don’t know *many* people who always drink the exact same wine (brand, vintage) or the exact same beer for their entire lives. Part of the experience and enjoyment is trying different varieties, learning and appreciating their subtle differences, etc.

I mean, I do know a few people who have never tasted any beer but Budweiser or any whiskey other than Jack Daniels gut rot (for literally 60+ years). But they are seriously missing out on the experience of life IMO.

And just like ChiFi audio, there are wines, spirits, and beers at many different price levels. So just because your budget can’t afford 1959 Dom Perignon or Pappy van Winkle 20year, doesn’t mean you can’t appreciate the stuff at the other budget levels.


----------



## Zlivan




----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> I compare it not necessary to collecting, but rather to tasting different wines, spirits, or beers.
> 
> I don’t know *many* people who always drink the exact same wine (brand, vintage) or the exact same beer for their entire lives. Part of the experience and enjoyment is trying different varieties, learning and appreciating their subtle differences, etc.
> 
> ...



its getting to a point where even here in a KZ thread, people are just repeating the same old "why buy so many" and "KZ releases too many models" that its even more tiring than the random off-topic posts about cars and whatnot. Especially if we touched upon it a few pages back. "oh, sorry, too many pages, didn't read". I guess I can't complain about people being lazy to read or use the search function?


----------



## Luxed

My ZST have become an open-back design:






I have been waiting patiently for my AS10 and ZSN but now I'm forced to use my Shure se215 on the go. And I don't want to. They don't sound as good for me :/ (Yes I know, I could glue it back, but I'm lazy xD, I'll wait for the ZSN and see if there is a real difference. only then I'll decide if I need to fix them).

Also, I see a lot of people saying that foam tips are not as good as silicone ones, but I cannot get a single silicone tip to feel good in my ears. That's why I moved to comply before going with large cheap tips (those shown in the photo). They're great but I wonder if there is a really good cheap pair of foam tips that you guys could recommend to me?
The most difficult thing is that the usual "medium"/"universal fit" doesn't fit me, and I really need some large tips.


----------



## mbwilson111

Zerohour88 said:


> I guess I can't complain about people being lazy to read or use the search function?



Of course you can.

It is amazing how well the search function works


----------



## Zerohour88 (Nov 19, 2018)

Luxed said:


> My ZST have become an open-back design:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



cheap foams? other than Comply (and the cheapos that came with some IEMs), I've only tried the New Bee foam tips (7 bux or something for a set on aliexpress), but decided foams ain't for me. The New Bee tips were quite good though, friends who recommended me those likes them enough.

and, yeah, broken IEMs, you can glue them together, but things being so cheap now that you kinda go "meh, I'll just try out some other one then, good enough excuse". Totally not excusing me leaving my broken Estron C630 in the case


----------



## loomisjohnson

toddy0191 said:


> KZs are the Pokémon of the earphone world; gotta catch 'em all!
> 
> The ZSN and the AS10 have different signatures so complement each other.
> 
> ...


this is actually one of the best rationalizations i've ever read for our collective acquisition disorder. my sincere kudos.


----------



## Slater (Nov 19, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> Especially if we touched upon it a few pages back. "oh, sorry, too many pages, didn't read". I guess I can't complain about people being lazy to read or use the search function?



That’s not just this thread, or just this site. That’s everywhere on the Internet.

Many people seem to expect to be spoon fed everything, with no work on their part.

Some don’t know how to properly or effectively use the search function.

Still others some feel they “are too busy” or their “time is too valuable” to search. Like no one else’s isn’t?



So I guess it’s up to each one of us to decide if we’re going to tell people to search 1st, before spoon feeding information. Some may feel comfortable telling people that, some may not.



Spoiler: Searchy search search


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> That’s not just this thread, or just this site. That’s everywhere on the Internet.
> 
> Many people seem to expect to be spoon fed everything, with no work on their part.
> 
> ...



Admittedly the search function here is pretty weird, only searching in the thread or page you're currently visiting. Doesn't seem to be a universal search option like there used to be. As a result, depending on where you start the search from, the results can be pretty useless.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Admittedly the search function here is pretty weird, only searching in the thread or page you're currently visiting. Doesn't seem to be a universal search option like there used to be. As a result, depending on where you start the search from, the results can be pretty useless.



Isn’t that just a checkbox?

“Search this thread only” and
“Search this forum only”


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Isn’t that just a checkbox?
> 
> “Search this thread only” and
> “Search this forum only”



Never noticed those options. I'll see myself out.


----------



## randomnin

Yeah, I totally don't get the "try a different signature" concept. Every other signature than the one I equalize all my stuff to is annoying and unenjoyable to me. Harman or death!
Actually, I have an suspicion that Harman target response is the new, dignified and fancy way to call every plebeians favourite V-shaped sound. Except that it also propels one to compare graphs and look for impurities in comparison with the standard. Though, I haven't yet decided on whether a bit zigzag in a graph is audible and starting from how many dBs.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> That’s true of most companies haha
> 
> Also, keep in mind the “best” KZ isn’t necessary the most expensive model. I haven’t spent a single penny on any of their TOTL models - ZS10, AS10, BA10.
> 
> In theory you COULD just buy their best sounding model and be done with it. It just depends on what sound signature or characteristics you’re after, as that’s different for different people.



Now everyone needs to be like the Pod, what's the best KZ????? The one I'm listening to at any given time Currently


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Now everyone needs to be like the Pod, what's the best KZ????? The one I'm listening to at any given time Currently



Haha, good way to look at it. Each one has their strengths (except the ED4 which is just horrible).


----------



## Podster

Well there may be a little "Obsessive Compulsiveness" involved as well


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Well there may be a little "Obsessive Compulsiveness" involved as well



You still use the ZST?


----------



## Podster (Nov 19, 2018)

Slater said:


> You still use the ZST?



It's a known fact I'm a treble/mid kind of guy and I like my ZST over both the V1-V2 ZS5's (I'm feeling the leers now), then again I thought the ZS6 was everything the ZS5 was not as I feel the ZS4 is everything the ZS3 was not! My actual ranking and preference as of today would be ZSN, ZS6, ZST, ED9 and ZN1 Mini Mind you that last place could lean to the ZS4 depending on the day and my mood I'm still trying to figure out what pair I put your treated tri-braid on LOL


----------



## Trebor1966

Podster said:


> Well there may be a little "Obsessive Compulsiveness" involved as well


Where did you buy the velcro strips?


----------



## Podster (Nov 19, 2018)

Trebor1966 said:


> Where did you buy the velcro strips?



Home Depot, you can get a 336 thousand foot roll for like $10 I may be off by about 300K

Yo Slat, I  I may have put that cable on the colorfuls! Have to check tonight


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I liked the ZST, but personally find no use for it now that ZSN pwns my hole(s). They are insanely comfortable and light though. I wonder how difficult it would be to stick different drivers in it? hmm...

I think I just talked myself back into a use for ZST.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> Admittedly the search function here is pretty weird, only searching in the thread or page you're currently visiting. Doesn't seem to be a universal search option like there used to be. As a result, depending on where you start the search from, the results can be pretty useless.



There is an advanced search at the top of the page but on my tablet it is only easy to see in landscape mode.  It is there oin portrait mode as a weird little mark, but still opens to the drop down menu.

No problem on the PC


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 19, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I liked the ZST, but personally find no use for it now that ZSN pwns my hole(s). They are insanely comfortable and light though. I wonder how difficult it would be to stick different drivers in it? hmm...
> 
> I think I just talked myself back into a use for ZST.



I should try a balanced cable on my ZST now that I have the iBasso DX120. That could be interesting. It might breath new life into it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Hey, there's nothing wrong with collecting KZ! I was just making a comment guys. 

Somehow KZ has figured out how to hit the brand train just like McDonalds has, and we're here for the good times and won't go away anytime soon.


----------



## sino8r (Nov 19, 2018)

I think I must collect KZs too lol! Or at least iems...

So the ZSNs arrived today as well as the AS10s. I already had the the AS10s but returned them when I searched for my mid-bass iem. Gonna try a foam mod insert like on my KZS6s instead of the cotton which muffled the sound too much.

About the ZSNs, the hype is true! They have punchy bass and good treble clarity without being overly sibilant. The mids are okay but that's always the case with KZs. Proper equalizing is need to bring out the W shape. The instrument separation is great and sound stage is big but not huge like the AS10 or ZS6. I'd call it a mini AS10 or ZS6 but bigger than the ZSA. The seal is perfect with foams which I seem to have a problem with on the odder shaped KZs. Generally  I'd have to use triple flanges on those tough to seal but not these. They are as perfect fitting as the ZSAs or TFZ Queens which is really high praise. All that being said, these are gift to my girlfriend and this her first set of iems lol! She's tried my Fiios, IMRs, other KZs and seemed to like them. She's probably not used to the over the ear thing and just uses those AKGs that came with her Samsung. She did say the ZSNs sounded a bit better but I really do think she can't tell a difference lol! Definitely not an audio nut like us here...


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Hey, there's nothing wrong with collecting KZ! I was just making a comment guys.
> 
> Somehow KZ has figured out how to hit the brand train just like McDonalds has, and we're here for the good times and won't go away anytime soon.



no worries, you were just saying what some of the lurkers will be thinking.

in case you were wondering what I meant by touched upon, Slater pretty much summed up that despite the overload of models, each lineup or "series" in the KZ stable had around 1 year or so duration before release (like the ZST from ZSN), so it stands to reason that they do have pretty much an upgrade schedule in mind to keep the brand fresh on the minds of buyers. Kind of like Intel previously with their tick-tock upgrade model.


----------



## 1clearhead

eggnogg said:


> its here, ZSN BT cable
> on KZ official store
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ord-Applies-Original/1358152_32955926330.html
> 
> ...


Great!...Finally!


----------



## Migou67

Received my ZSN one day ago and happy with this little IEM, light and comfortable with a good build, great sound for this price range !

A touch of equalizing is needed, but they respond very well, listened on it with a XDuoo X3 and a iBasso D7 DAC on my laptop.


----------



## Mellowship

Not just collecting, also using daily.

These were my very first KZs. They are holding up pretty well.


----------



## blur.png

i just checked out for the trn v80's and got lots of cashback making the zsn only cost $10 ... welp *rip allowances lol*


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> Not just collecting, also using daily.
> 
> These were my very first KZs. They are holding up pretty well.



Nice Mellow, see you run foamies on yours, as I mentioned yesterday I ran across my old ATE's in my work shed this weekend! Those and my VJJB's were relegated to outdoor work duties

@Slater , finally found your re-worked tri-braid last night (Now on ZSA's). Most of my KZ are in their own KZ case but a few I keep with grab and go DAP's Really think the tri-braid looks sweet in black


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Nice Mellow, see you run foamies on yours, as I mentioned yesterday I ran across my old ATE's in my work shed this weekend! Those and my VJJB's were relegated to outdoor work duties
> 
> @Slater , finally found your re-worked tri-braid last night (Now on ZSA's). Most of my KZ are in their own KZ case but a few I keep with grab and go DAP's Really think the tri-braid looks sweet in black



Hey Pods, the ATE are better used with wide bore silicone tips for clearer treble, but the foamies here are necessary for comfort and to keep them in place, as they keep jumping off my ears when using silicone. For outdoor duties, when I want better isolation, I use the "bad" pair of ZS3 (newer generations, shiny shell, Slatermodded), also with foams. 

Lately I've been testing inverted foams, i.e.:

 
The AS10, in this configuration, sounds even better for my taste. Inverting the foams puts the end of the nozzle really close to the end of the foam, lowering the reflections on the tip's rubber inner tube. The shells go a little bit deeper but the foam stays a little bit shallow on the ear. The result is a great fit, less intrusion of the foam in the sound signature, more skin to reflect the sound from the insertion plane to the inner ear. Just try it!!!


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> Hey Pods, the ATE are better used with wide bore silicone tips for clearer treble, but the foamies here are necessary for comfort and to keep them in place, as they keep jumping off my ears when using silicone. For outdoor duties, when I want better isolation, I use the "bad" pair of ZS3 (newer generations, shiny shell, Slatermodded), also with foams.
> 
> Lately I've been testing inverted foams, i.e.:
> 
> ...



Pod's not a big foamy user but that concept looks to make sense so I'll have to give it a try lord knows I've got enough variety of foamies lying around since I really don't use them! The ones I've tried I always seem to lose some treble We are going to have to change Slater's handle to Slodder with all the tricks he seems to come up with


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> Great!...Finally!



I hope KZ fixed the problem with that bluetooth cable. I had one (not the one for ZSN) and the signal always cut out even when I am using it on my desktop. It is a shame as it has good sound, but the intermittent signal out is a deal breaker for me at least.


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> I hope KZ fixed the problem with that bluetooth cable. I had one (not the one for ZSN) and the signal always cut out even when I am using it on my desktop. It is a shame as it has good sound, but the intermittent signal out is a deal breaker for me at least.



I don't trust their bluetooth at all for the same reasons. Just go with any of the TRNs. Works flawlessly (except the mics kinda suck).

What was the deal with the last KZ bluetooth that looked like the TRN? Did it end up having connectivity issues as well? Anyone want to share their experience with it?


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> I don't trust their bluetooth at all for the same reasons. Just go with any of the TRNs. Works flawlessly (except the mics kinda suck).
> 
> What was the deal with the last KZ bluetooth that looked like the TRN? Did it end up having connectivity issues as well? Anyone want to share their experience with it?



Well, don’t forget that TRN royally screwed up the BT10, with many of them wired out of phase.

Although, at least that can be fixed with soldering skills. The KZ Bluetooth cables have a dodgy design, which can’t be fixed by the end customer.

So it’s kind of a ‘pick your poison’ situation.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 20, 2018)

Podster said:


> @Slater , finally found your re-worked tri-braid last night (Now on ZSA's).......Really think the tri-braid looks sweet in black



Indeed, they do look great. I'll be coupling my black tri-braids to my black ZS6. Awesome sauce all around. Slater is the man!

Also, KZ's new silver/copper cable is going to look great on my grey ZS6.









Four or five years ago no one would have believed that an aluminum shelled 2BA+2DD hybrid with handsome detachable cables and fantastic tuning would be available for less than $45 ($33 - ZS6 @ KZ Official Store + $11 - silver/copper cable @ KZ Official Store =$44).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DocHoliday said:


> ($33 - ZS6 @ KZ Official Store + $11 - silver/copper cable @ KZ Official Store =$44).


How much was the ZS6 on 11/11 though?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mellowship said:


> I use the "bad" pair of ZS3 (newer generations, shiny shell, Slatermodded),


Are the newer revisions of the ZS3 worse than the originals? No one seems to be talking about that old guy anymore...


----------



## Slater (Nov 20, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How much was the ZS6 on 11/11 though?



They were very affordable. I seem to remember mid-high $20s, depending on coupons etc.


----------



## Mellowship

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are the newer revisions of the ZS3 worse than the originals? No one seems to be talking about that old guy anymore...


The newer iterations are not as good. Maybe they changed the driver. 
The first iteration is great, providing you take that red nozzle grille off (and foam if existing), and give them lots and lots of power.


----------



## Slater (Nov 20, 2018)

Slater said:


> BTW, to anyone who has an out-of-phase BT10, I took mine apart and it is not difficult to correct the problem if you are handy with a soldering iron. Even if you aren't, a local electronics repair shop (or even a local HeadFier) could resolder it for you.
> 
> Tomorrow I will work on a guide with photos.



I know this was already covered a few days ago by another member, so I didn’t bother making a full guide.

However, I did want to add a helpful tip as a follow up to the other member’s guide:

I found it was easier to fix the cable from the side without the control buttons (ie the side that says “TRN”). There are no circuit boards or control buttons to deal with - just 2 wires and the battery. And everything is wide open and easy to work on, vs being cramped by buttons and circuit boards.

So you pop the shell open (ie the side that says TRN), which reveals the 2 wires. Then you remove the factory heat shrink, desolder and swap the wires, and you’re done.

Then comes the kicker. Once you’re done resoldering the wires, snap the shell back together and simply slip a piece of heat shrink tubing over the outside of the shell. Once shrunk, the heat shrink tubing holds the whole thing together perfectly.

Like this:




Why is this easier? Well, when you originally take apart the shell it doesn’t always want to go back together securely. Instead of gluing the shell back together, the heat shrink method is faster, easier, and is easily removable in case you need to go back in and service something.


----------



## DocHoliday

Slater said:


> I know this was already covered a few days ago by another member, so I didn’t bother making a full guide.
> 
> However, I did want to add a helpful tip as a follow up to the other member’s guide:
> 
> ...




I have to say, with posts like this from you and khighly regarding Bluetooth, Slater mods, Coil's mods,  Hakuzen's cable resistance feedback, Antdroid's FR graphs and the general enthusiasm present throughout the thread it's no small wonder that this thread has in excess of twenty five hundred pages.



Oops.......and the discussion about KZ IEMs.





With that said, it's time to pop in my ZS3's and spend a couple of hours with the Cleary's.


----------



## Luxed

I finally received my ZSN and AS10 with a copper/silver upgrade cable.

Here are my first thoughts:

ZSN: A great replacement for my ZST pro! Still sound a little bit different (but that may change with some burn-in time). They seem to have a little more bass, better sub-bass (I just heard something that I never heard on my ZST), recessed mids? (the ZST had a peak in the upper mids if I'm not mistaken) and a little bit less highs. Oh and that cable, the cable is amazing and is on par with the copper/silver upgrade cable.
AS10: More mids than both the ZST and ZSN. And what is that thing that I hear? Why does the singer sounds so far? AH! That's some sound stage in an IEM, didn't even know it existed up until now. I need way more listen to really understand how those sound. Testing on my Magni 3 and Bravo Audio V2, these IEMs sound completely different. My DT990 gain a little bass, lose a little bit of highs and just sound warmer. For the AS10, the exact opposite happens: they get way brighter on the V2. I never experienced such a difference on any of my gear simply by switching Amp.
Build quality: Even though the AS10 costs almost 3 times the price of the ZSN, the ZSN are still the winners. They simply feel better quality than the AS10.
Please remember that I'm not a reviewer, and those are only my first impressions. 

I might go for a pair of Tazerface (TFZ, don't worry if you don't know the reference) next (yes, I am already planning on buying a new pair, but I'll wait at least next summer). Any recommendation?
But I also need to upgrade my DAP, the Fiio X1 II is great, but that Hidizs AP80 looks sweet.


----------



## Bartig

Luxed said:


> I finally received my ZSN and AS10 with a copper/silver upgrade cable.
> 
> Here are my first thoughts:
> 
> ...


Haha, easy cowboy! Seems like you have enough to enjoy first!


----------



## HungryPanda

Bartig said:


> Haha, easy cowboy! Seems like you have enough to enjoy first!


 That is not the Head-Fi spirit


----------



## voicemaster

sino8r said:


> I don't trust their bluetooth at all for the same reasons. Just go with any of the TRNs. Works flawlessly (except the mics kinda suck).
> 
> What was the deal with the last KZ bluetooth that looked like the TRN? Did it end up having connectivity issues as well? Anyone want to share their experience with it?



Yes, I have 3 trn bt3 (2 two pin and 1 mmcx) and all of them have been great so far.


----------



## Luxed

Bartig said:


> Haha, easy cowboy! Seems like you have enough to enjoy first!


Hmmm, are you sure about that?

Actually you are right, I have a broken pair of ATH M40X that I would really like to repair because I absolutely loved them.
That makes 3 headphones, 5 IEMs, 2 Amps, 1 DAC (don't need more of those I think).

I really like IEMs because I can easily transport a lot of them.

Oh, since I'm here, do any of you know a good IEM case that could have more than 1 inside it? Or maybe I should go with a headphone case? That seems like a good option to me, but the price is a lot for 2 IEMs.


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> Yes, I have 3 trn bt3 (2 two pin and 1 mmcx) and all of them have been great so far.



I had the bt3 (both aptx and regular sbc) and had the bt10 as well. All were very good. No polarity issues for me with the bt10 (like Slater mentioned) but I did exchange the bt10 for TFZ bluetooth cable. It was more attractive with aluminum plugs lol! Gave the bt3 to friend and bt3 aptx to my girlfriend with her new ZSN. For the MMCX, I went all out with the powerful Sony MUC-M2BT1. It was expensive but worth every penny for the LDAC, high quality build, and fantastic battery life. It's as good as the Sennheiser HD1 or one of the other high end bluetooth horseshoes headsets.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Luxed said:


> Oh, do any of you know a good IEM case that could have more than 1 inside it?


I use this IEM case, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...torage-Bag-Headphone-Box-For/32737715281.html

I bought it recently for $1.89 US with shipping costs included. But now they've added $3.91 US to ship it to Canada. 

I think that squabble over shipping costs via China and USA is affecting everyone now?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

randomnin said:


> Thanks, hakuzen! Great graphs, very useful. My conclusion is that ES3, ZS5 and ZS6 all have more uneven graphs than KZ ZST. The drop from 20Hz to 1kHz is bigger than ZST, the peak at 2kHz and the drop at 7 khz are still present. I guess I'm not buying any of these new KZs, doesn't seem worth it, given that comfort also hasn't increased. Pass.


Have you kept up with your KZ boycott from 2017? Just checking and holding you to it.


----------



## randomnin (Nov 21, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Have you kept up with your KZ boycott from 2017? Just checking and holding you to it.


Nope, lol. At that time I thought those were compensated graphs (because Reference Audio Analyzer person in Russian social networks told me that flat graph represented balanced sound). Now I'm all about Harman, which KZ is pretty near to (except too little sub-bass, too much mid-bass, the peak at 2kHz should be moved to at least 3kHz, and the cut off at 4-5kHz starts too early and is too severe). But I was right in that they don't seem to be improving what they already have, strictly graph-wise. Sound-wise, according to reviewers, they have improved; I'll see about that.
But then again they have increased comfort of their standard signature by giving said signature to ZS4, and ZSN does have a new material used. And I bought both of them. One could argue, going by my earlier remarks, there was enough reason to stop the "boycott".

Also, I was secretly fearing someone would call me out on my discrepancies. Not that having changing opinions is against my convictions - quite the contrary.


----------



## Mellowship

randomnin said:


> Nope, lol. At that time I thought those were compensated graphs (because Reference Audio Analyzer person in Russian social networks told me that flat graph represented balanced sound). Now I'm all about Harman, which KZ is pretty near to (except too little sub-bass, too much mid-bass, the peak at 2kHz should be moved to at least 3kHz, and the cut off at 4-5kHz starts too early and is too severe). But I was right in that they don't seem to be improving what they already have, strictly graph-wise. Sound-wise, according to reviewers, they have improved; I'll see about that.
> But then again they have increased comfort of their standard signature by giving said signature to ZS4, and ZSN does have a new material used. And I bought both of them. One could argue, going by my earlier remarks, there was enough reason to stop the "boycott".
> 
> Also, I was secretly fearing someone would call me out on my discrepancies. Not that having changing opinions is against my convictions - quite the contrary.


My boycott lasted from the zs5v1 to the ZS4. The first impressions I started to read about zs5v1 vs. V2 and the changes that were made by kz in that respect without informing customers made me lose some trust in newer kz models.
So I skipped kz6 and a lot of other models, just to be back on track with ZS4 and as10. I'm waiting for my 11.11 zsn to arrive...


----------



## khighly

So NiceHCK on Aliexpress would not refund me even half of the purchase price for the out of phase BT10. They were unusable and my time fixing them is definitely worth $10 .


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> I know this was already covered a few days ago by another member, so I didn’t bother making a full guide.
> 
> However, I did want to add a helpful tip as a follow up to the other member’s guide:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the follow up! Wouldn't this be side dependent? The R channel doesn't flow through that side. It's also in my opinion much harder to cut the wires on that side, remove the enamel coating and create a good solder joint, especially with such small guage wires. I will reball a BGA and do SMD work before I touch headphone magnet wire . Maybe the other side of yours is different, but mine is just the R channel wire running straight through with no breaks or solder points.

I do like your heat shrink idea though. I have no plans to reopen mine so I did glue them shut. I glued the board down to the little retention bits and glued the plastic pins back in.


----------



## BCool

Can anyone recommend me some shorter 2-pin cables? I got fed up of using the KZ bluetooth adaptor (paired with ES3s) and went for one that I can clip to my shirt when I'm working out.

On a different note the AS10s I ordered last week arrived and damn they're good! They're better than my ZS5v1 with similar detail and more bass, plus they're more comfortable. They're also a pretty good upgrade from the Xiaomi Hybrids that were my daily drivers for ~3 years


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 21, 2018)

Theme: What were they thinking? 

The KZ company came along way of achieving some stiff competition while building it's way up to a more reputable one. But, how does one even challenge the beauty and sonic sound signature at such a low price when combining price and material. This is the very reason why we ask -What were they thinking? With Knowledge Zenith's achievement of the  KZ ZSN, they just made it more difficult for other companies to challenge this very point of "Price VS Value". In reality, there's no doubt about it! At a mere $13 to $15 US dollars, other companies are asking -how can they profit at such a low price? Well, the reality is that they have a BIG FOLLOWING, whether rich, middle class, or the poor that yearn to wish to have such a "gem" can now afford a taste of hi-end/hi-class earphones giving them a higher listening experience and enjoyment. Just in design, build, and housing puts to shame even branded earphones costing much more at their own and much higher target price. I, myself hope that this will be a new trend for KZ and hope that they follow this very trend. You can be sure that the KZ ZSN are going to be hard to beat in "five different ways" -looks, design, build, sound, and price!

After finally reaching 200 hours of playtime, they easily reached the top of my list! 

RATING CHART Highest Rating Possible: 10

PSR = PRO SOUND RATING
SS = SOUND SIGNATURE
BQ = BUILD QUALITY
OP = OVERALL PACKAGE
OV = OVERALL VALUE

HYBRIDS DD + BA Armature(s):

KZ ZSN
10mm Titanium Film Drivers + KZ's exclusive 30095 BA Armatures in each side
PSR: 9.9
SS: Luscious and energetic with plenty of hi-end details/micro-details, life-like MID's, and fast effortless bass with excellent soundstage and resolution!
BQ: 10
OP: 7
OV: 10

COMMENTS: When purchasing with the light copper cables (or clear/silver cables), you get a glimpse of what could have been a very expensive hi-end signature model at a killer price! No doubt about it!...Simply top of my list!


To see more on my list, check out my profile...
https://www.head-fi.org/members/1clearhead.363120/


-Clear


----------



## Zerohour88

Mellowship said:


> My boycott lasted from the zs5v1 to the ZS4. The first impressions I started to read about zs5v1 vs. V2 and the changes that were made by kz in that respect without informing customers made me lose some trust in newer kz models.
> So I skipped kz6 and a lot of other models, just to be back on track with ZS4 and as10. I'm waiting for my 11.11 zsn to arrive...



welp, you better stay away from TRN V80 then, or the unmentionable V2, at the very least those are the ones I've heard revisions about

strangely enough all I see from people when being told about this was "isn't that good? they revise the IEM so its even better for later buyers"


----------



## Aparker2005

Well my band ordered 3 ZSN yesterday. They've all got the zst. I've got the As10 and zs10. Giving our bass player my zsr. I may try one if the zsn once they arrive with all the good reviews here.


----------



## Bartig

1clearhead said:


> Theme: What were they thinking?
> 
> The KZ company came along way of achieving some stiff competition while building it's way up to a more reputable one. But, how does one even challenge the beauty and sonic sound signature at such a low price when combining price and material. This is the very reason why we ask -What were they thinking? With Knowledge Zenith's achievement of the  KZ ZSN, they just made it more difficult for other companies to challenge this very point of "Price VS Value". In reality, there's no doubt about it! At a mere $13 to $15 US dollars, other companies are asking -how can they profit at such a low price? Well, the reality is that they have a BIG FOLLOWING, whether rich, middle class, or the poor that yearn to wish to have such a "gem" can now afford a taste of hi-end/hi-class earphones giving them a higher listening experience and enjoyment. Just in design, build, and housing puts to shame even branded earphones costing much more at their own and much higher target price. I, myself hope that this will be a new trend for KZ and hope that they follow this very trend. You can be sure that the KZ ZSN are going to be hard to beat in "five different ways" -looks, design, build, sound, and price!
> 
> ...


Coming from you! Whoah. My black green and purple silver ZSN can't arrive fast enough!


----------



## Luxed

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I use this IEM case, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...torage-Bag-Headphone-Box-For/32737715281.html
> 
> I bought it recently for $1.89 US with shipping costs included. But now they've added $3.91 US to ship it to Canada.


Ah yes! That looks like what I'm after. I already have a small brainwavz case, but it barely holds 2 IEMs. This looks to be bigger. And at that price I'll just buy 1 or 2.
The shipping is a lot though, you may be right about the issues with the US, but I still found this exact case for 2.44$ (CAD) with free shipping 

Thank you for the recommendation, at this price, it won't kill me to take one!


----------



## 1clearhead

Bartig said:


> Coming from you! Whoah. My black green and purple silver ZSN can't arrive fast enough!


Yea, I finally ordered the black ZSN last week to add to my already unique purple/silver and cyan/black collection.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Luxed said:


> Ah yes! That looks like what I'm after. I already have a small brainwavz case, but it barely holds 2 IEMs. This looks to be bigger. And at that price I'll just buy 1 or 2.
> The shipping is a lot though, you may be right about the issues with the US, but I still found this exact case for 2.44$ (CAD) with free shipping
> 
> Thank you for the recommendation, at this price, it won't kill me to take one!


Find a cheaper seller on Aliexpress. This guy was the cheapest when I bought it but they aren't anymore with the high shipping costs. Or are they still?


----------



## randomnin

Bartig said:


> Coming from you! Whoah. My black green and purple silver ZSN can't arrive fast enough!


Indeed, new stuff just can't arrive fast enough. Happily, I got a message that my ZSN has arrived at the post office, so tomorrow's the day! Ordered November 10th from AK, and it's already here. Extremely fast this time around. I bet the other stuff I ordered on the 11th is nowhere near me.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

randomnin said:


> Ordered November 10th from AK, and it's already here. Extremely fast this time around. I bet the other stuff I ordered on the 11th is nowhere near me.


I find AK the fastest for deliveries. I should use them more often... I bought a ZSN from Gearbest and another from KZ Global Store cause people posted photos of getting freebies.

PS: are we allowed to say AK? As far as I know they are connected to a banned seller.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> So NiceHCK on Aliexpress would not refund me even half of the purchase price for the out of phase BT10. They were unusable and my time fixing them is definitely worth $10 .



Yeah, I had no luck with any refund on my out of phase set (from a different seller). I just fixed them myself. Still worth it, as it only took 10-15 minutes to fix.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Yeah, I had no luck with any refund on my out of phase set (from a different seller). I just fixed them myself. Still worth it, as it only took 10-15 minutes to fix.


You should tell them you're going to sue because you could have spent those precious minutes on Head-Fi.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Thanks for the follow up! Wouldn't this be side dependent? The R channel doesn't flow through that side. It's also in my opinion much harder to cut the wires on that side, remove the enamel coating and create a good solder joint, especially with such small guage wires. I will reball a BGA and do SMD work before I touch headphone magnet wire . Maybe the other side of yours is different, but mine is just the R channel wire running straight through with no breaks or solder points.
> 
> I do like your heat shrink idea though. I have no plans to reopen mine so I did glue them shut. I glued the board down to the little retention bits and glued the plastic pins back in.



You are right, the side with no control buttons (the Left side) only has the Left wires running through it. But that’s ok. With phase you only have to switch 1 side. It doesn’t matter which.

You can test this by flipping the 2-pin connector on the Left side only, and listening to the difference. On the TRN cables, the ear guide will point the wrong way but you can still wear the IEM for the test.

Then put the Left cable back to normal, and flip the Right side instead. You’ll notice that the sound changes exactly the same no matter which side was reversed. That’s why when fixing phase you can do either side. At least, that’s how I’ve always done it.

As far as the wires themselves, I didn’t have to deal with the enamel coating. The very tips of the wires are already stripped and tinned with solder. I literally just touched the connection to unsolder them, then resoldered them in the same place (except with the opposite wire). I didn’t even use more solder (just flux for flow), as there was plenty of solder on the wires.


----------



## Slater

BCool said:


> Can anyone recommend me some shorter 2-pin cables? I got fed up of using the KZ bluetooth adaptor (paired with ES3s) and went for one that I can clip to my shirt when I'm working out.
> 
> On a different note the AS10s I ordered last week arrived and damn they're good! They're better than my ZS5v1 with similar detail and more bass, plus they're more comfortable. They're also a pretty good upgrade from the Xiaomi Hybrids that were my daily drivers for ~3 years



You can easily add a shirt clip to the KZ Bluetooth cable. The shirt clip just attaches to the wire. You can also run the wire behind your neck vs in front.

BTW, have you seen the new TRN BT20? Totally wireless.

Mine hasn’t arrived yet, so I don’t know how well it performs. Only what is in the product description and photos.


----------



## pbui44

Aparker2005 said:


> Well my band ordered 3 ZSN yesterday. They've all got the zst.



Heh heh, you can ask for seller references as well.


----------



## Ted Presley

@1clearhead, I just made the order for ZSN thanks to your feedback (I owned many Magaosi iem as you, maybe we have similar sound signature liking ) )


----------



## Tunaa

Guys i have KZ AS10 And its sounds just amazing. A guy in my country wants to trade B&O H3 ANC with my KZ AS10. What do you think? should i trade with H3 anc ?


----------



## sino8r (Nov 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> You are right, the side with no control buttons (the Left side) only has the Left wires running through it. But that’s ok. With phase you only have to switch 1 side. It doesn’t matter which.
> 
> You can test this by flipping the 2-pin connector on the Left side only, and listening to the difference. On the TRN cables, the ear guide will point the wrong way but you can still wear the IEM for the test.
> 
> ...



Wait a minute... You're using a soldering iron that feeds flux? What kind of witchery is this?


----------



## HungryPanda

Tunaa said:


> Guys i have KZ AS10 And its sounds just amazing. A guy in my country wants to trade B&O H3 ANC with my KZ AS10. What do you think? should i trade with H3 anc ?


I would say no


----------



## Luxed

And here I come again with the questions... This time it's about the copper silver upgrade cable that I received and it will be difficult to explain but here I go:
On this series of cables you have a flat side and a round side to know how to insert them properly, but this is inverted on my cable. Could this mean that the polarity is reversed? Is there a way I can test it?







If I put the cable "correctly", the ear-hook ends up under my ear, not over it...
And also, unfortunately, there is no metal piece in the ear-hook, so I can't bend it backwards.



sino8r said:


> Sounds like you just starting out to me lol! I think I've past 20 now. That includes a ton of Looks like a good


What you're saying is not good, I'm only a student, I shouldn't have the money to buy all of that stuff. But hey, if I can eat my cheap pasta while listening to good music on chi-fi stuff I'll be more than happy  !


----------



## Tunaa

HungryPanda said:


> I would say no


Why not?


----------



## Slater (Nov 21, 2018)

sino8r said:


> Wait a minute... You're using a soldering iron that feeds flux? What kind of witchery is this?



No, I applied a spot of flux gel with the tip of a toothpick before I began.

So the steps were:

1. Open control shell (the one that says TRN).
2. Carefully peel off clear factory heat shrink tubing from the existing wire connections.
3. Apply a small drop of flux gel to each joint where the wires are soldered together.
4. Unsolder wires.
5. Reverse wires and resolder.
6. Test polarity with music test file.
7. Apply a drop of liquid electrical tape to cover each bare wire connection, and let dry. I didn’t feel like messing with heat shrink tubing as the wires are ridiculously small. Liquid rubber tape is easier in this application.
8. Snap control shell back together.
9. Slip heat shrink tubing over control shell and heat gently.
10. Enjoy cold beer in frozen mug. This step is critical to success.


----------



## Slater

Aparker2005 said:


> Well my band ordered 3 ZSN yesterday. They've all got the zst. I've got the As10 and zs10. Giving our bass player my zsr. I may try one if the zsn once they arrive with all the good reviews here.



If you find the ZSN doesn’t have enough isolation on stage, give the ZS4 a try! It has as much isolation as earplugs!


----------



## HungryPanda

I have the B&O H3 ANC and it is a bulky iem that need to be charged to use noise cancelling, sounds ok


----------



## dondonut (Nov 21, 2018)

Slater said:


> If you find the ZSN doesn’t have enough isolation on stage, give the ZS4 a try! It has as much isolation as earplugs!



I was wondering about this earlier. Which budget IEM would you rate to have the best isolation? (while still maintaining acceptable SQ)

Edit: didnt notice I was on the KZ thread, i woulda asked on the sub-$100 chat


----------



## Slater

dondonut said:


> I was wondering about this earlier. Which budget IEM would you rate to have the best isolation? (while still maintaining acceptable SQ)



ZS4 or ZS3

Between the 2, I prefer the ZS4.

If you are particularly treble sensitive, you can go for the ZS3. Or else you can use foam tips on the ZS4, or even do the ‘ZST foam mod’ to the BA in the nozzle.

But the ZS4 treble is just fine for me.


----------



## dondonut

Slater said:


> ZS4 or ZS3
> 
> Between the 2, I prefer the ZS4.
> 
> ...



I'm not overly sensitive to treble fortunately. A friend got the ZS3 recently and was not satisfied, I'll have to listen to those next chance I get. I'll surely consider the ZS4, can't beat a good isolation IEM for certain situations.


----------



## Tunaa

HungryPanda said:


> I have the B&O H3 ANC and it is a bulky iem that need to be charged to use noise cancelling, sounds ok


Thats ok. How about sound quality? I dont mind about charcing etc. Could you compare with AS10 for me?


----------



## jibberish

+1 on the isolation of the ZS4.  It's my ideal lawn mowing/house vacuuming IEM, ha.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, what's the difference in sound between the TRN V80 and the AS10?


----------



## sino8r (Nov 21, 2018)

Luxed said:


> And here I come again with the questions... This time it's about the copper silver upgrade cable that I received and it will be difficult to explain but here I go:
> On this series of cables you have a flat side and a round side to know how to insert them properly, but this is inverted on my cable. Could this mean that the polarity is reversed? Is there a way I can test it?
> 
> 
> ...



My apologies! I really messed up that reply! I'm surprised you responded to it lol! I was going to suggest a aluminum case but if money is any issue being a student, I completely understand! Now for the old man lesson of the day (I'm 37 but that's still old to you. Well, I thinking remember when 35 was old in my 20s at least) When you finish school, you can buy 20 or more ridiculous iems like the rest of us. Do well in school and you can trade up those chifis for Campfires or something! Thank goodness I done with all that. School is tough! And this is something most adults won't admit to... It's much harder than a job but the consequences and responsibilities are greater so I guess it's about even in the end. Glad I finished though. The case you picked out looks good. Looks like the one that came with my Fiio FH5. Can hold 2 iems and a couple of cables.

Oh and about the cables, yeah it seems that it is just printed backwards. One of my TFZ bluetooth cables appears to be backwards but I just reversed it. You can always check the sound with a phase test video on YouTube if you're concerned about that. 



Slater said:


> No, I applied a spot of flux gel with the tip of a toothpick before I began.
> 
> So the steps were:
> 
> ...



Lol! Man, I completely forgot about Flux gel! I never used the stuff myself. I always just held the wire and worked quickly or used a tool to apply slight pressure. For some reason, I was thinking about arc welders and the Flux wire that comes out. I recommend any tech guy or gal to try welding once or twice in their life. It's alot of fun using a torch or a real welder after using a soldering iron for alot of their life. It's an awesome experience. After my first tech job, I worked on industrial batteries and used a torch for the cell connections and arc welder for the battery casings. It was a dirty job but really fun sometimes. Glad to be back in a office for many years though...


----------



## Kazelement

How does the ZS10 compare to the ZS3, ZSN and ZSR. Maybe some can explain the strength and weaknesses of each possibly and which music there made for.


----------



## Luxed

sino8r said:


> My apologies! I really messed up that reply! I'm surprised you responded to it lol! I was going to suggest a aluminum case but if money is any issue being a student, I completely understand! Now for the old man lesson of the day (I'm 37 but that's still old to you. Well, I thinking remember when 35 was old in my 20s at least) When you finish school, you can buy 20 or more ridiculous iems like the rest of us. Do well in school and you can trade up those chifis for Campfires or something! Thank goodness I done with all that. School is tough! And this is something most adults won't admit to... It's much harder than a job but the consequences and responsibilities are greater so I guess it's about even in the end. Glad I finished though. The case you picked out looks good. Looks like the one that came with my Fiio FH5. Can hold 2 iems and a couple of cables.


Well, it doesn't help that I basically hate school and what it tries to teach me. Not in the "school is useless" kind of way. But more in the "school doesn't teach you enough useful life advices". I always found that I can teach things better to myself compared to school. I'm almost done with it, and I really don't want to ever have to go back. But right now, I'm in Computer Science learning about programming so I couldn't be happier!

And for the case, I think I'll buy the one that was recommended to me for extremely cheap. I wanted a single case for all my IEMs but in the end I only have 2 that I'll use on a regular basis (ZSN and AS10), and my other IEMs will stay home (I may sell my SE215 and my Brainwavz M100 (if anyone wants them)).



sino8r said:


> Oh and about the cables, yeah it seems that it is just printed backwards. One of my TFZ bluetooth cables appears to be backwards but I just reversed it. You can always check the sound with a phase test video on YouTube if you're concerned about that.


Yes, I searched more about that and found some usefull videos to check if everything is good, and it is. The difference is so big that I would have noticed.


----------



## sino8r

Luxed said:


> Well, it doesn't help that I basically hate school and what it tries to teach me. Not in the "school is useless" kind of way. But more in the "school doesn't teach you enough useful life advices". I always found that I can teach things better to myself compared to school. I'm almost done with it, and I really don't want to ever have to go back. But right now, I'm in Computer Science learning about programming so I couldn't be happier!
> 
> And for the case, I think I'll buy the one that was recommended to me for extremely cheap. I wanted a single case for all my IEMs but in the end I only have 2 that I'll use on a regular basis (ZSN and AS10), and my other IEMs will stay home (I may sell my SE215 and my Brainwavz M100 (if anyone wants them)).
> 
> ...



Well, that's great about the programming. I took A+, Net+, C+ in college. Very valuable skills if you're going into the IT field. Fun too! I understand what you mean about school and not learning what you think might be useful. I lot of people feel that way about science, math and history but I think some (not all) applies in the real world and conversations. I realize you can look up info/facts these days and get answers almost instantly but it does take away from finer conversations and discussions if you don't know the subject well. Gone are the days of the old bar arguments about a topic when you can just look up the answers on your phone. Plus, I think it does teach some discipline that we need in the world really started to erode with my generation. Yeah, and teaching style has changed alot since I finished school. My mom taught for years but retired a bit earlier than anticipated due to how parents react and lack of discipline towards their children. It's gotten really bad. I feel sorry for the younger generation.

Anyways, I'm sure you'll be happy with the AS10 and ZSN! They're probably the most refined KZs to date. They really sound almost as good as mine in the several hundred dollar category.


----------



## SybilLance

Hi to all!

Received my KZ ZSN the other day and I must say I still was surprised by the quality of the sound despite reading how good it is through several pages in this thread and elsewhere: It is wonderful!

If I can find a really good bargain (<$30), I _might_ be tempted to get the AS10 this Black Friday.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 21, 2018)

dondonut said:


> I was wondering about this earlier. Which budget IEM would you rate to have the best isolation? (while still maintaining acceptable SQ)





Slater said:


> ZS4 or ZS3
> 
> Between the 2, I prefer the ZS4.





dondonut said:


> A friend got the ZS3 recently and was not satisfied, I'll have to listen to those next chance I get. I'll surely consider the ZS4, can't beat a good isolation IEM for certain situations.



Most of the KZ's released after the ZS3 do have notable improvements in sonic presentation but none have the superb isolation of the ZS3/ZS4. The ZSR comes close enough but I typically use my ZS3 when I need total immersion when gaming.



Spoiler


----------



## dondonut

SybilLance said:


> Hi to all!
> 
> Received my KZ ZSN the other day and I must say I still was surprised by the quality of the sound despite reading how good it is through several pages in this thread and elsewhere: It is wonderful!
> 
> If I can find a really good bargain (<$30), I _might_ be tempted to get the AS10 this Black Friday.



Which color did ya get?


----------



## dondonut

DocHoliday said:


> Most of the KZ's released after the ZS3 do have notable improvements in sonic presentation but none have the superb isolation of the ZS3/ZS4. The ZSR comes close enough but I typically use my ZS3 when I need total immersion when gaming.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Exactly, gaming, public transit, vacuuming etc come to mind. Good to hear people still like the ZS3 / ZS4. I want both the ZSN (in both purple and black) and ZS4 now. When will it stop.. while very affordable I can't justify buying all this stuff!


----------



## CoiL

I wish ZSN would be inside ZS4 shell... who knows... maybe somehow 
ZST shells were ok for me but for longer listening sessions started to disturb from somwhere. I have small ears.
ZS4 provides superb fit/comfort/isolation for me.


----------



## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> I wish ZSN would be inside ZS4 shell... who knows... maybe somehow
> ZST shells were ok for me but for longer listening sessions started to disturb from somwhere. I have small ears.
> ZS4 provides superb fit/comfort/isolation for me.


exactly the same here. located the pain in the ear lip where zs4 has a dip for. guess i pushed zsn too much deep for long.


----------



## SybilLance

dondonut said:


> Which color did ya get?



The purple, naturally.


----------



## SybilLance

Re: KZ ZSN

I hear a balanced, natural and coherent presentation, with bass reminiscent of the HiFiMan HE-400i but with a tad more quantity and extension. No bass bleed or masking that my old ears can discern, just that pleasant warm foundation. The mid-frequencies don't seem recessed at all; in fact they are in the right proportion relative to the bass and treble. The latter is clear, detailed but with a smoothness of character that makes it non-fatiguing over time. Thus the natural sound. In this regard alone I consider the ZSN better than that of my other KZs (ATE, ZS5 v1, ZS6, ED16)

The shape of the ZSN housings seems custom-built for the conchae of my small ears. This, plus the protrusion angle of the sound tube and my current eartip ensure that the latter is aligned on-axis with my ear canal without any wiggling or other contortions upon insertion. Perfect fit, just the right seal, ideal sound projection every time. Oh, so comfortable—fell asleep with them on last night.

The package from the seller included 3 other pairs of assorted eartips aside from the stock KZs. One is a wide-bore translucent-white soft silicone tip with a short thick teal core. These are my Goldilocks tips, the ones I've been listening with and by which my descriptions/impressions are based.

You know, I bought these gorgeous gems for ₽567 (~$10.79 US) last 11.11. Having gone thru life's ups and downs, I can recognize—and most heartily recommend—the outstanding value that's the KZ ZSN.





PS
Best KZ stock cable for me.


----------



## Mellowship

Tunaa said:


> Thats ok. How about sound quality? I dont mind about charcing etc. Could you compare with AS10 for me?



The Beoplay H3 ANC still sells new for around 140-170 USD. The AS10 can be had at 40-50 USD. I'd say the H3 has ANC, which is a good commodity to have around if you travel a lot (especially by air) or if you commute using noisy transportation, even if the sound quality is not as good (or as "special") as the AS10. I would trade in a blink of an eye and order another AS10 on black Friday sales!


----------



## sino8r

CoiL said:


> I wish ZSN would be inside ZS4 shell... who knows... maybe somehow
> ZST shells were ok for me but for longer listening sessions started to disturb from somwhere. I have small ears.
> ZS4 provides superb fit/comfort/isolation for me.



To me, the ZSN fit perfectly so I'd like the AS10s internals in the ZSN shell. It's the first KZ that sealed perfectly with regular tips in quite a while. Too bad I gave mine to my old lady. Maybe with popularity of the the ZSN design, they'll make a similar one with flagship armatures. It made me miss that shape so much that I reordered the TFZ Queens to tide me over until the next KZ. Plus, I really regret returning them


----------



## dondonut

Anyone found out what the difference between the Viola Purple and Tyrian Purple ZSN @gearbest is? Attempted a chat, but like always communication is hard:






Are they the same or different? 
...Yes.


----------



## BCool

Slater said:


> You can easily add a shirt clip to the KZ Bluetooth cable. The shirt clip just attaches to the wire. You can also run the wire behind your neck vs in front.


I already have one of these that works really well and generally works better and is easier to use than the KZ model. I think until there's a cable model that has a good antenna and lasts for more than 2-3 hours I'll stick to it.


Slater said:


> BTW, have you seen the new TRN BT20? Totally wireless.
> 
> Mine hasn’t arrived yet, so I don’t know how well it performs. Only what is in the product description and photos.



They do look interesting and I eagerly await your impressions!


----------



## Sylmar

Got the ZSN today and I'm really enjoying it. KZ really is making a lot of of progress and I'm so happy they also got the cabling right.


----------



## crabdog

@Sylmar I absolutely agree. Here's my ZSN review. Enjoy.
https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/


----------



## FettaBiscottata

I'm looking to buy the KZ ZSN tomorrow, but i need just one info to decide which colors would fit best for me.
Does the brushed alluminium surface (Black and cyan) feel a little "bumpy" when you try to scratch it with your nails or is super smooth (like the purple one)? I get tingles everytime i touch a brushed alluminium surface and would like a really smooth surface, like glass or stainless steel.


----------



## randomnin

Having purple ZSN in my ears, the bass is better than the average KZ, well textured, mids and highs are good as usual. These IEMs are also handling sibilance in vocals better than average. The fit is good, even with the default tips. Isolation is about average. The chassis is well made, but it's not so spectacular that this factor should play a major role in choosing whether to purchase these IEMs. The copper colour cable is nice, but the splitter is too low again. Overall, definitely one of the best KZs.


----------



## randomnin

crabdog said:


> @Sylmar I absolutely agree. Here's my ZSN review. Enjoy.
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/


Hooray, you make graphs too, I love graphs!


----------



## Sylmar

crabdog said:


> @Sylmar I absolutely agree. Here's my ZSN review. Enjoy.
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/



Hi Crabdog! Glad you like them as well. Will take a look at the review.


----------



## Slater

crabdog said:


> @Sylmar I absolutely agree. Here's my ZSN review. Enjoy.
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/





FettaBiscottata said:


> I'm looking to buy the KZ ZSN tomorrow, but i need just one info to decide which colors would fit best for me.
> Does the brushed alluminium surface (Black and cyan) feel a little "bumpy" when you try to scratch it with your nails or is super smooth (like the purple one)? I get tingles everytime i touch a brushed alluminium surface and would like a really smooth surface, like glass or stainless steel.



You know, something I noticed with the ZSN...

The ones with the black back have a very obvious brushed finish (very obvious in crabdog's photo). However, my silver backs have a much more polished finish (which appear to have been either tumbled or blasted with walnut shell to achieve the polished finish). It's not 100% mirror polished, but about 80% of a mirror polish.

It's not good or bad either way, just something I noticed. I was originally planning on polishing the silver backs myself, because in some photos the silver backs looked like they were as brushed as the black backs. But when mine arrived and I saw the polished finish in person, I didn't have to do it myself.

I still may give it a full polish on a buffing wheel for that mirror chrome look, but I have to wait for my new pentadriver bits to come so I can remove the special security screws holding the rear cover on.


----------



## stryed (Nov 22, 2018)

Received the KZ silver/copper cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Mixed-Cable-Use-For-SE846-KZ/32944500379.html
Not bad quality at all but not a huge fan of the color and lack of mic. Not sure about the SQ coming from a bit of silver in my KZ5 wire either. Will have to listen more closely as for the time being I'm enjoying the EzAudio D4.

I'm thinking it's more worthwhile buying IEMs and interchanging cables that buying cables on their own. Anything else around with a mic that's not plagued by QC fails? I heard TRN had some issues sometimes.


----------



## 1clearhead

crabdog said:


> @Sylmar I absolutely agree. Here's my ZSN review. Enjoy.
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/


Great review, crabdog! 

...Now, if you can only get your hands on the purple/silver ZSN with that light/copper cable to hear the bits and improvements that makes the ZSN one of the hottest purchase in 2018!


----------



## cacio

got my ZSN today. bought on 11.11 from official KZ store. pretty fast shipping to Germany. 

I don't want to write much about the sound, because they need some burn in time. The only thing I noticed is that they are super efficient. To efficient. They are really loud on my OnePlus 3 with just 50% Volume (the Takstar 82 Pro take like 80-85% for the same volume. And Superlux HD 668-B are not at all load with 100%. Also my old Havi B3 Pro are just on medium volume @ 100%)

They have such little resistance that with my OP3 I even have a small background hiss noise which I have not noticed with other headphones until now. 

I have yet to try the ZSN with my hifimediy SABRE ES9018 DAC. But I'll wait some days till they are burned in enough. And the ZSN are anyways not for desktop use but more for mobile use, that's why I care more about the performance on my phone.

So I thought maybe the BA driver is wired in parallel with the DD, so I took one side apart. First I thought it was Torx , but its not (see 2nd picture)

The crossover seems to be soldered on to the dynamic driver, and I can not tell 100% if both drivers are wired in parallel or series. 

Because the are "to efficient" I would rather mod the to series wiring (If they are wired parallel)

I will update on sound quality after some days. 

But overall I am really happy already


----------



## Migou67

Still amazed by the ZSN, I have to forget this unreal price just for enjoying the sound without a placebo effect.

I have only one con after fews hours of continual use, I started to feel uncomfortable with the original eartips. A bit too hard for my small and sweet ears 

I have replaced it by Ortofon eartips, they are softer for long sessions and same opening. I think is the medium bore, I have got it so long time ago now.


----------



## Slater (Nov 22, 2018)

cacio said:


> got my ZSN today. bought on 11.11 from official KZ store. pretty fast shipping to Germany.
> 
> I don't want to write much about the sound, because they need some burn in time. The only thing I noticed is that they are super efficient. To efficient. They are really loud on my OnePlus 3 with just 50% Volume (the Takstar 82 Pro take like 80-85% for the same volume. And Superlux HD 668-B are not at all load with 100%. Also my old Havi B3 Pro are just on medium volume @ 100%)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the photos! Very clear and closeup - so helpful 

As far as I can tell, the drivers are wired in series not parallel.

I am impressed at how clean the assembly work is inside. No glue glopped everywhere. Even the soldering work looks quality. And the jack is screwed down wOw!

BTW that 5-point driver is called a pentadriver, and it used in Apple products.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> Thanks for the photos! Very clear and closeup - so helpful
> 
> As far as I can tell, the drivers are wired in series not parallel.
> 
> ...


+1 I was surprised to see the jack screwed down as well! ...Incredible value! ...And the crossover is a plus, too!


----------



## khighly

Is KZ's most recent Bluetooth cable any good? Looking to get it for my ZSN since it's the only one available for that connector. Anyone know if it *really* has AAC and aptX?


----------



## GrassFed

hello KZ connoisseurs, if ED16's top end is too strong for me, should I try ZSN?  Tried ZSA a while back. At first it was impressive, but somehow after a couple days it sounded harsher... ED16 was less intense, but still, it mainly stays in the box.


----------



## 1clearhead

GrassFed said:


> hello KZ connoisseurs, if ED16's top end is too strong for me, *should I try ZSN?*  Tried ZSA a while back. At first it was impressive, but somehow after a couple days it sounded harsher... ED16 was less intense, but still, it mainly stays in the box.


Yes!!!


----------



## SybilLance

crabdog said:


> @Sylmar I absolutely agree. Here's my ZSN review. Enjoy.
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/



@crabdog, a very good review; well written and with FR graphs, too!

May I ask what eartips did you use to listen for your impressions and comparisons? Your initial photos show the default smooth eartip but the latter ones for the comparisons show a medium-to-wide-bore smoky grey silicone tip with the short red core. Save for the color, the latter tip looks similar to the one I'm using.

The reason I'm asking is because I find that with the smooth default tip and the Starlines (both small-bore) the ZSN bass is accentuated such that the midrange relatively becomes a wee bit recessed. Treble also becomes smoother, with an ever-so-slight drop in detail. Foam tips seem to heighten these effects even more. I noticed it when changing tips and listening to Steely Dan and Donald Fagen, whose albums I'm very familiar with.


----------



## crabdog

SybilLance said:


> @crabdog, a very good review; well written and with FR graphs, too!
> 
> May I ask what eartips did you use to listen for your impressions and comparisons? Your initial photos show the default smooth eartip but the latter ones for the comparisons show a medium-to-wide-bore smoky grey silicone tip with the short red core. Save for the color, the latter tip looks similar to the one I'm using.
> 
> The reason I'm asking is because I find that with the smooth default tip and the Starlines (both small-bore) the ZSN bass is accentuated such that the midrange relatively becomes a wee bit recessed. Treble also becomes smoother, with an ever-so-slight drop in detail. Foam tips seem to heighten these effects even more. I noticed it when changing tips and listening to Steely Dan and Donald Fagen, whose albums I'm very familiar with.


Thanks for your feedback. I have a stash of XL tips that I have collected over time. 9 out of 10 earphones come with tips that are too small for me.

I can't remember where I got the grey ones in those photos but that is my preferred type of eartip.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Thanks for the photos! Very clear and closeup - so helpful
> 
> As far as I can tell, the drivers are wired in series not parallel.
> 
> ...



Uh oh, my iFixit bit kit doesn't even have that size lol! May have to order some smaller sizes myself. Probably will polish my a little bit as well


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Is the KZ AS10 a MUST BUY... it is 50% off on Aliexpress. $44 in total.


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## Mybutthurts

I love it... It's downgraded my ZS10 back into its box
Very open compared to the ZS10 and easier to drive.
Needs to be run in for a few hours to rid it of a quite sharp treble out of the box.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the KZ AS10 a MUST BUY... it is 50% off on Aliexpress. $44 in total.


----------



## sino8r (Nov 23, 2018)

Mybutthurts said:


> I love it... It's downgraded my ZS10 back into its box
> Very open compared to the ZS10 and easier to drive.
> Needs to be run in for a few hours to rid it of a quite sharp treble out of the box.



You can always try the foam mod. Cuts down on the treble without muffling sound, adds more mids, and bass. I use it on every KZ I own. Apparently, I'm a bit treble sensitive. Anyways, it's very simple once you remove the screen. No burn in required. You only need foam from an old case or sound insulation, a needle to remove the screen, a flashlight, tweezers, and a tiny amount of patience. Look down the nozzle, locate the chamber with two visible armatures and add 1mm x 1mm square bit of foam. If it's still to much treble, add another small bit outside the chambers and lightly push it in front of both chambers so that it's covering the bottom of the nozzle. Don't use too much or pack it too tightly or it will muffle the sound too much and kill the overall volume. Good luck!


----------



## Mybutthurts

Didn't really need to go that far for me,  swapping between the ZS10 & AS10 while comparing the two over several days. The sharpness disappears or my ears got used to it, which I doubt.

Looked at that mod, but with my lack of dexterity I'd would have made a mess of it.


----------



## Nikostr8

ok i received today my ZSN and i can not believe this earphone is so cheap , i am speechless ... they sound so damn good!


----------



## SomeEntityThing (Nov 23, 2018)

Received my black/black KZ ZSN 3 days ago.  I'll probably want to spend more time with them for more meaningful analysis, but not to worry; I don't think they're "garbage" any bit  Listening to FLAC files on my Shanling M0, these have beautiful highs and delicious bass, though the mids are a bit recessed and vocals aren't as forward as they are on, say, the KZ ED16. The *build quality and ergonomics *though! Oh my goodness, it really is wonderful to hold and wear these things, and the cable is the best KZ's offered so far because no memory wire. Why? Why is this possible? It isn't even fair. The quality of the ZSN for this price should be illegal XD


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> You can always try the foam mod. Cuts down on the treble without muffling sound, adds more mids, and bass. I use it on every KZ I own. Apparently, I'm a bit treble sensitive. Anyways, it's very simple once you remove the screen. No burn in required. You only need foam from an old case or sound insulation, a needle to remove the screen, a flashlight, tweezers, and a tiny amount of patience. Look down the nozzle, locate the chamber with two visible armatures and add 1mm x 1mm square bit of foam. If it's still to much treble, add another small bit outside the chambers and lightly push it in front of both chambers so that it's covering the bottom of the nozzle. Don't use too much or pack it too tightly or it will muffle the sound too much and kill the overall volume. Good luck!



I wonder when manufacturers will catch onto this simple trick


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mybutthurts said:


> I love it... It's downgraded my ZS10 back into its box
> Very open compared to the ZS10 and easier to drive.
> Needs to be run in for a few hours to rid it of a quite sharp treble out of the box.


Would you make love to someone with it in the bed - hence cheating on them at the same time... is it that good?


----------



## ShakyJake (Nov 23, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the KZ AS10 a MUST BUY... it is 50% off on Aliexpress. $44 in total.



It is only $33 from Penon. From the deals thread (Thanks @pthora):

*KZ AS10 IEMs* for $33, down from $60ish street price or $40ish on the AE sale. This is the lowest price I've ever seen for these.
https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sales/kz-as10.html

*KZ ZS10 IEMs* for $22.50, down from $44.50. Good price.
https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sales/kz-zs10.html

Full deal post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...the-first-post.692119/page-1811#post-14615826

Another low is the ED16 at  $12
https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sales/kz-ed16.html?limit=100


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> It is only $33 from Penon. From the deals thread (Thanks @pthora):
> 
> *KZ AS10 IEMs* for $33, down from $60ish street price or $40ish on the AE sale. This is the lowest price I've ever seen for these.
> https://penonaudio.com/black-friday-sales/kz-as10.html
> ...



Wow, from $60 to $33 in just a few months.

IMO, that’s more in line with what it should have originally been anyways.


----------



## s620 (Nov 23, 2018)

Hi, just sharing my experience with TRN BT3 Aptx bluetooth cable recommended many times here.
I bought it on Aliexpress and disappointed with the battery.
With my TRN V80 headphones it plays a little less than 4 hours, not 7-8 hours as declared.
I thought it is a faulty instance and ordered it again from a different seller and got the exact same time. Both sellers high-rated.
So, for now I'm thinking it is a system problem, and the issue is that battery life depends on the headphones itself.
TRN V80' declared resistance is 30Ω what seems max in class. For example ZS10 has 16Ω, ZS4 - 18Ω, AS10 - 14Ω.
Should higher impedance take higher voltage and amperage to get the same response... Like 16Ω plays 8 hours, 30Ω plays less than 4...
Any ideas? Shall I get longer battery life with lower impedance IEH?


----------



## cacio

s620 said:


> Hi, just sharing my experience with TRN BT3 Aptx bluetooth cable recommended many times here.
> I bought it on Aliexpress and disappointed with the battery.
> With my TRN V80 headphones it plays a little less than 4 hours, not 7-8 hours as declared.
> I thought it is a faulty instance and ordered it again from a different seller and got the exact same time. Both sellers high-rated.
> ...



this is normal battery life for the old bluetooth tech. for longer battery life you have to wait until we get the new bluetooth 5.0 qualcomm chips. they are up to 65% more efficient. i also wait for this ...


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> Wow, from $60 to $33 in just a few months.
> 
> IMO, that’s more in line with what it should have originally been anyways.



When I bought my as10 in October price on gearbest was £34.30, currently it's is £42.85.
So. If they are $33 that is a bargain.


----------



## Slater

s620 said:


> Hi, just sharing my experience with TRN BT3 Aptx bluetooth cable recommended many times here.
> I bought it on Aliexpress and disappointed with the battery.
> With my TRN V80 headphones it plays a little less than 4 hours, not 7-8 hours as declared.
> I thought it is a faulty instance and ordered it again from a different seller and got the exact same time. Both sellers high-rated.
> ...



4 hours for the BT3 and BT10 is about typical. I think TRN was on drugs when they came up with that 8 hour figure.

In actuality, that’s a best case scenario. More of a theoretical time that you’ll never get in the real world.  I think what they do is fully charge it, turn it on with NO IEM, and let it sit until the battery runs out. I could see that lasting 8 hours, but it’s not realistic.


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 23, 2018)

Volume level will also effect battery life. The ohms level will have some effect on the amount of power needed to achieve the same volume level if the sensitivity is the same. YMMV.

I ordered the BT10 instead of the BT3, since it had a softer neck cable, BT 4.2 vs 4.1 and better sweat/water resistance. I'm hoping the battery life is better than 4 hours (5-6), as just like yours it claims to last 6-7 hours.


----------



## Slater

Mybutthurts said:


> When I bought my as10 in October price on gearbest was £34.30, currently it's is £42.85.
> So. If they are $33 that is a bargain.



The question I have is “are they worth it”?

I mean, I have so much good gear, I don’t know if I need the AS10. Especially if it’s just a side grade, as I have loads of side grade gear.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Volume level will also effect battery life. The ohms level will have some effect on the amount of power needed to achieve the same volume level if the sensitivity is the same. YMMV.
> 
> I ordered the BT10 instead of the BT3, since it had a softer neck cable. I'm hoping the battery life is better than 4 hours (5-6), as just like yours it claims to last 6-7 hours.



I got some bad news for you. My BT10 has about the same battery life as my BT3.


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> I got some bad news for you. My BT10 has about the same battery life as my BT3.



Oh well, that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes when gambling on chinese electronics. 4 hours will still be enough for my use.


----------



## MrMajony

Is it still worth the kz zs10 for $ 22 taking into account the new releases of kz ?


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Oh well, that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes when gambling on chinese electronics. 4 hours will still be enough for my use.



Not just Chinese electronics. Many stated measurements are not as perfect as what you’ll get in the real world. Gas mileage ratings on cars, lumen output on LED lights, square footage coverage on paint, battery life ratings on laptops, the wattage in car audio, etc.

I see things like that as close approximations, not necessary as absolutes.

The TRN battery life is particularly inflated though, being half of the rated spec. That is somewhat unusual, as most reputable products aren’t inflated by 100%. That would be like a “foot long” sub sandwich only being 6” long lol


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> 4 hours for the BT3 and BT10 is about typical. I think TRN was on drugs when they came up with that 8 hour figure.
> 
> In actuality, that’s a best case scenario. More of a theoretical time that you’ll never get in the real world.  I think what they do is fully charge it, turn it on with NO IEM, and let it sit until the battery runs out. I could see that lasting 8 hours, but it’s not realistic.



I get 6-7 hrs daily on mine. But, it's on mid volume most of the time. I guess usage makes a difference though. Full volume would probably be closer to 5 hrs.


----------



## sino8r

MrMajony said:


> Is it still worth the kz zs10 for $ 22 taking into account the new releases of kz ?



I would pass. It's a weirdly tuned iem and mostly unpleasant. The only time I enjoyed mine was with TV or movies on the phone otherwise it kinda sucks. Go with AS10.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> I get 6-7 hrs daily on mine. But, it's on mid volume most of the time. I guess usage makes a difference though. Full volume would probably be closer to 5 hrs.



BT3 or BT10?


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> BT3 or BT10?



Both when I still had the BT10. I wasn't a big fan of the dangling plastic earrings. Still, only half volume mostly with intermittent pauses at work. Lasted all at work and even though the afternoon at home. Like I said, I probably only had it blasting full volume for 1 hr or so. This is from a Samsung Note so maybe it didn't pull as much power as a dac or amp but then again that's that my area of expertise. I have yet to really get into dacs and amps. Have had no trouble driving my iems even one at 32 ohms. Haven't really needed a dac either. Got a huge memory card and my Note 9 powers iems rather easily.


----------



## Superluc

The ZSN fit different than the ES4 ? They look alike, but i have some problems with the ES4.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Both when I still had the BT10. I wasn't a big fan of the dangling plastic earrings. Still, only half volume mostly with intermittent pauses at work. Lasted all at work and even though the afternoon at home. Like I said, I probably only had it blasting full volume for 1 hr or so. This is from a Samsung Note so maybe it didn't pull as much power as a dac or amp but then again that's that my area of expertise. I have yet to really get into dacs and amps. Have had no trouble driving my iems even one at 32 ohms. Haven't really needed a dac either. Got a huge memory card and my Note 9 powers iems rather easily.



Sounds like I need to try them again.

Lithium batteries do take a few cycles to reach their full potential. I don’t use the BT10 often, so I’m sure it’s draining some between uses.

I’ll set up a test rig - a phone and IEM at listening volume and use a timer app on the phone.


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> The ZSN fit different than the ES4 ? They look alike, but i have some problems with the ES4.



Do you have the ZST?

ZSN shell is almost identical to the ZST.


----------



## stryed

Anyone could compare the AS10 vs KZN a bit more? And how does the KZ5/6 fit in when you are not too trebble sensitive? 
I'm having a hard time not buying the KZN with the KZ7 on the horizon, and the AS10 seemed like the better KZ5.

Just bought the new lucky nicehck by the way


----------



## Superluc

Slater said:


> Do you have the ZST?


Nope, that's why my question vs the ES4. I feel like the ES4 try to go too deep inside, and too straight. My ears didn't like that.
The ZS5/6 category fit better on my ears, maybe because of the less long and a more angled nozzle.  

Maybe i better wait for the ZS7, even if they don't seem to want to cover the screws. The one on the rear hurt me a bit, do you think i'm an alien ?


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Sounds like I need to try them again.
> 
> Lithium batteries do take a few cycles to reach their full potential. I don’t use the BT10 often, so I’m sure it’s draining some between uses.
> 
> I’ll set up a test rig - a phone and IEM at listening volume and use a timer app on the phone.



Sounds good! Can't wait to hear your results! I don't use my TRN much anymore but it did last all day when I did for months. I'd say it was worth it especially considering how few 2 pin bluetooth options are available in quality models. I mostly use the Sony MUC-M2BT1 now but it is mmcx. Love the LDAC format it uses. Sounds as good as a wired connection but it is expensive at around 200 US dollars. Worth every cent if you use Bluetooth daiIy though. I have some 2 pin adapters but they make the connectors really long and kind of awkward. They still fit but sometimes the wire won't stay behind you ear and you have to tuck the wires under the collar part. My go-to two pins are the TFZ bluetooth. They are the dangling model but I've figured out a way to get around that annoyance. I have a small clip used for LG Bluetooth models (you can buy replacements on Amazon) and have it clip behind my neck. It's keeps the module earrings out of the way and looks alot better (at least from the front lol) I use one on the Sony too. Keeps the extra length of wire out of the way. The TFZ bluetooth is around 50 bucks so not much more than the TRN. It definitely has a 7 hr battery life with higher volume.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I'm having some problems ordering from Penon Audio, it says "Security header not valid." and won't allow me to make an order.


----------



## MrMajony

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm having some problems ordering from Penon Audio, it says "Security header not valid." and won't allow me to make an order.


I happened the same when ordering a zs10, I could only use paypal


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 24, 2018)

MrMajony said:


> I happened the same when ordering a zs10, I could only use paypal


I did the same. Paypal works. I ordered the ZS10 in Black and AS10 in Cyan/Green as the Black was sold out?


----------



## Slater

Can anyone compare the ZSN and AS10?

Thanks!


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Can anyone compare the ZSN and AS10?
> 
> Thanks!


Will do when my as10 come in from china.


----------



## SybilLance

It's unbelievable for what the ZSN is being sold in our part of the world (shopee.ph): as low as ₽672 for the cyan no mic, ₽679 for the black no mic, and ₽680 for the purple no mic. That's $12.82, $12.96 and $12.98 US, respectively, even lower than for what I got mine. 

If you've got promo codes and coins you can knock the price down even more. That's what I did last 11.11. Even better, there are Free delivery discount vouchers + COD. 

Here's my ₽567 breakdown:





China Girl Store (thatgirl.ph) also sells the ZSN silver-plated upgrade cable for ₽249. That's ~$4.75 US. Mmmaybe I shall get one. And the cyan for my husband. I have enough coins, I think.


----------



## Conest

Anyone solved the mystery of KZ ZSN color variants on Gearbest yet ?
I wanna buy one but dont have any idea which one to pick -
Black
Medium Turquoise
Viola Purple
Tyrian Purple ( Seriously , what is this color )


----------



## sino8r (Nov 24, 2018)

Slater said:


> Can anyone compare the ZSN and AS10?
> 
> Thanks!



The AS10 has larger soundstage, a bit more detail and separation, and heavier bass abilities. The treble amount is around the same. High but not piercing. The ZSN can have mild sibilance but nothing to worry about. To me, the AS10 has the detail of ZS6 but lacking the treble overload. It too can sibilance but it's extremely rare. The ZSN can really thump and is extremely V shaped. It's alot of fun but it can compete with the openness of the AS10. The ZSN is like the bigger brother of the ZSA. I hope that helps!
Oh and the ZSN lacks mids but can be equalized to fill in. I don't feel like the AS10 has that issue. Plus, all armatures means that it willbsound like it always within a couple of hours of listening. Whether burn-in is real or not, it does seem to somewhat apply for dynamic drivers.


----------



## sino8r

Conest said:


> Anyone solved the mystery of KZ ZSN color variants on Gearbest yet ?
> I wanna buy one but dont have any idea which one to pick -
> Black
> Medium Turquoise
> ...



I think it must be a mistake until we see it in person or an image. A few folks have mentioned this but I've yet to see anything besides a description. Maybe it's a future version or release? Maybe one that didn't make it to production?


----------



## Conest

sino8r said:


> I think it must be a mistake until we see it in person or an image. A few folks have mentioned this but I've yet to see anything besides a description. Maybe it's a future version or release? Maybe one that didn't make it to production?



Well.. according to the pictures (in the review section), Viola Purple and Tyrian Purple is same ..


----------



## sino8r

Conest said:


> Well.. according to the pictures (in the review section), Viola Purple and Tyrian Purple is same ..



Could be, I just looked at it again. I really wish KZ stays with this natural iem shape. They are really comfortable and seal nicely. I really love the design. I wish they'd give us a BA10/AS10 inside of the ZSN style shell.


----------



## Conest (Nov 24, 2018)

sino8r said:


> Could be, I just looked at it again. I really wish KZ stays with this natural iem shape. They are really comfortable and seal nicely. I really love the design. I wish they'd give us a BA10/AS10 inside of the ZSN style shell.



And why Viola Purple is more expensive than those three ?
Which one should i buy , any suggestions ? This is so frustrating...
Is there any quality difference as mentioned before in this thread..and if there is..
Purple and silver one is better than the other two ??
If they are.. which one .. Tyrian Purple or Viola Purple...
*Screams*
Edit: Noticed one thing... If you check any of these variants on Gearbest.. it shows Six pictures with Option to sepect colors and all of them have same price..
Except Viola Purple.. it only shows two pictures..
And why there are Two Without Mic option now.. and one of them is only available for Viola..


----------



## Conest

Anyways.. ZSN aside..
I'm new in this community
And I have ordered ZSA as my First IEM..cant wait to try them out..
Any suggestions for the Upgrade cable ?


----------



## sino8r

Conest said:


> And why Viola Purple is more expensive than those three ?
> Which one should i buy , any suggestions ? This is so frustrating...
> Is there any quality difference as mentioned before in this thread..and if there is..
> Purple and silver one is better than the other two ??
> ...



I got the purple one with the mic for my girlfriend on Amazon. I liked the shiny face plate but the grey and green looks good too. The grey and black definitely have a textured faceplate. That's the only difference I can tell. You could try Aliexpress if Gearbest is being a pain... I like that store if it's only available from China. Good luck!


----------



## sino8r

Conest said:


> Anyways.. ZSN aside..
> I'm new in this community
> And I have ordered ZSA as my First IEM..cant wait to try them out..
> Any suggestions for the Upgrade cable ?



I like the 8 core copper/silver 2 pins that have many brand names. About 20 US dollars. Or the TRN Bt3 if you want bluetooth. I think the ZSA is a good choice. It's a good, comfortable, nice looking iem. Your next one should be the AS10 or TFZ King or Queen for the ultimate budget experience! Very full sound, really close to large headphones sound, and nice bass. I think you'd enjoy the AS10. Once you get that one, there isn't much of a need to go for anything more expensive. Alot of people here here been getting them for 40 US dollars with all the sales going on right now. They're usually closer to 60 dollars. It's a really good deal and wonderful iem. It sounds almost as good as my mid tier iems that go for several hundred dollars.


----------



## Conest (Nov 24, 2018)

sino8r said:


> I like the 8 core copper/silver 2 pins that have many brand names. About 20 US dollars. Or the TRN Bt3 if you want bluetooth. I think the ZSA is a good choice. It's a good, comfortable, nice looking iem. Your next one should be the AS10 or TFZ King or Queen for the ultimate budget experience! Very full sound, really close to large headphones sound, and nice bass. I think you'd enjoy the AS10. Once you get that one, there isn't much of a need to go for anything more expensive. Alot of people here here been getting them for 40 US dollars with all the sales going on right now. They're usually closer to 60 dollars. It's a really good deal and wonderful iem. It sounds almost as good as my mid tier iems that go for several hundred dollars.



Sure... Thanks a lot for the help..
I was thinking to buy ZSNs as they are really hyped..
So AS10 are better than those ?
(i like this emoji )
Are KZs durable??.. i want them to last longer..
 and i found build quality better on ZSN too..
Soooo.. help


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> Sure... Thanks a lot for the help..
> I was thinking to buy ZSNs as they are really hyped..
> So AS10 are better than those ?
> Are KZs durable??.. i want them to last longer..
> and i found build quality better on ZSN too..


AS10 = $ 60 ZSN = $18 ... AS10 has to be better. Consumers would be pissed if it wasn't.

If you want an IEM to last 5-10-20 years... then KZ is the way to go.


----------



## chi-fi mel

I found these tips I had set aside for some reason. It turns out they are remarkably good and I'd like to buy more but I don't know what kind they are. You can see in the picture where is says XL on the tips. If you can identify them despite the poor image quality I would appreciate it!!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> And why Viola Purple is more expensive than those three ?
> Which one should i buy , any suggestions ? This is so frustrating...
> Purple and silver one is better than the other two ??
> If they are.. which one .. Tyrian Purple or Viola Purple...
> ...


Why are you having such a hard time buying a ZSN? Stay away from Gearbest and go on Aliexpress! Click on the photo and buy. Gearbest is screwing their own business up.


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> AS10 = $ 60 ZSN = $18 ... AS10 has to be better. Consumers would be pissed if it wasn't.
> 
> If you want an IEM to last 5-10-20 years... then KZ is the way to go.


Hmmm..


LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why are you having such a hard time buying a ZSN? Stay away from Gearbest and go on Aliexpress! Click on the photo and buy. Gearbest is screwing their own business up.



Yeah, that's true..but i found ZSN cheaper on Gearbest but their Viola Purple costs the same on AliExpress..
Thanks anyways..
Maybe i will use my ZSAs for some time and save for AS10s


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> AS10 = $ 60 ZSN = $18 ... AS10 has to be better. Consumers would be pissed if it wasn't.
> 
> If you want an IEM to last 5-10-20 years... then KZ is the way to go.



I was planning to buy two KZs.. 
 ZSA was on a great deal.. got it for 10$ and i was just having confusion for the second one..


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ED16 is only $11.90 at Penon Audio. That's robbery! (for him, not you.) https://penonaudio.com/earphones/kz-ed16.html


----------



## Conest (Nov 24, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> ED16 is only $11.90 at Penon Audio. That's robbery! (for him, not you.) https://penonaudio.com/earphones/kz-ed16.html


Thanks for your time Everyone..
Glad to be part of this community..
Seems like my Next KZ will be AS10
( But you gotta collect em all)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 24, 2018)

FYI, The product was IN STOCK when I ordered.

Penon Audio just sent me a few cute e-mails,

"hi dear friend
Thanks for your order, but I am sorry that we have set this product (AS10) out of stock ,but due to system issue , you still ordered it , so we have to cancel the order for you."

"hi , dear friend
we are clear KZ inventory now , so sell it at 50% off , which is a loss , and we won’t get it in stock any more."

"hi,dear friend
we are sorry about this inconvenience caused you .
we will cancel the order for you now , and issue full refund to you via paypal , pls check later .
any questions,pls feel free to contact us ."


----------



## CYoung234

Whew! Made it through the last 600+ posts without ordering anything! So many differing opinions in here. Since I got my ZS10's a while ago and paired them with Auvio tips, I have not felt the need to order anything new. I listened to my ED16's again last night, and still need to break out my ZS5 v1 again to have another listen to it. But for me, the ZS10 does everything I need to in an iem. It gets out of the way of the music better than anything else in my collection. Must just be my ears or something...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CYoung234 said:


> Since I got my ZS10's a while ago and paired them with Auvio tips, I have not felt the need to order anything new. But for me, the ZS10 does everything I need to in an iem. It gets out of the way of the music better than anything else in my collection. Must just be my ears or something...


Where do you buy the Auvio tips? I'm not too familiar.

I think your ears are in love... with ZS10


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 24, 2018)

Penon Audio wanted to cancel my ZS10 order. Apparently, the Canadian government told everyone around the world to stop sending mail here... or maybe it was Canada Post that did that? Anyway... no wonder shipping on Aliexpress is expensive right now.

The government has just 'banned' the strike so mail will start flowing again soon.


----------



## khighly

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Penon Audio wanted to cancel my ZS10 order. Apparently, the Canadian government told everyone around the world to stop sending mail here... or maybe it was Canada Post that did that? Anyway... no wonder shipping on Aliexpress is expensive right now.
> 
> The government has just 'banned' the strike so mail will start flowing again soon.



That's not how strikes work . You can't regulate them out of existence . Trudeau is a silly man.

Anyway, I picked up the ZSN bluetooth cable. Should be here before 2020.


----------



## parthabhatta

I was using the KZ USB Type-C 0.75 mm Digital Decoding OFC upgrade cable. I found it quite good sounding and used it quite frequently. But its usage was limited as it could be only used with KZ earphones and being "B" type pins, the models narrowed down to a few KZ earphones compatible with type "B" pin only. So I thought to give it a go and make it generic. The price being around 10/12 $, the financial risk was not very high. And after a few hours of work, I did manage to successfully convert the DAC Amp cable into a standalone DAC / Amp Cable which can be fitted to any earphone. I tested it with quite a few and all of them works very well irrespective of TRS or TRRS type. Uploading a couple of pictures. The 3.5 mm socket seems crude. I hope to give some good looks to it later 
  by filing.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 24, 2018)

KevDzn said:


> For the ZSN, I think the difference between the black/cyan and the purple ones are more than the cable. The purple ones has 'aluminium alloy' nozzle and the black/cyan has 'metal copper' nozzle.


Anyone else have opinions on the nozzles after listening to both?


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> That's not how strikes work . You can't regulate them out of existence . Trudeau is a silly man.
> 
> Anyway, I picked up the ZSN bluetooth cable. Should be here before 2020.



Are you in Canada?


----------



## CYoung234

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Where do you buy the Auvio tips? I'm not too familiar.
> 
> I think your ears are in love... with ZS10



I think I got them on eBay, as there are no Radio Shacks in Paraguay. As far as the ZS10, yes, I think my ears are in love with it. I still enjoy listening to my ZS6's and CM5. The ED16s are nice. But I keep coming back to the ZS10.

That being said, I have not heard the ZSN, AS10 or BA10...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CYoung234 said:


> As far as the ZS10, yes, I think my ears are in love with it. I still enjoy listening to my ZS6's and CM5. The ED16s are nice. But I keep coming back to the ZS10.


I noticed you have a lot of headphones in your signature. Is ZS10 a top ear piece for you or do you prefer other brands vs KZ or other models?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> Maybe i will use my ZSAs for some time and save for AS10s


The AS10's are $44 right now. Are you going to save for them when they are $64?


----------



## Conest (Nov 24, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The AS10's are $44 right now. Are you going to save for them when they are $64?


I know but Right now ... I can only afford a ZSN and a good upgrade cable ( For ZSAs) 
Trust me I'm trying really hard to not buy ZSN right now (seeing the impressions in this thread)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> Trust me I'm trying really hard to not buy ZSN right now (seeing the impressions in this thread)


DO IT DO IT DO IT! Silver Back/Purple ZSN from Aliexpress for you! Yay!


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> DO IT DO IT DO IT! Silver Back/Purple ZSN from Aliexpress for you! Yay!


Damnit 
But then i won't be able to try AS10 for a long time


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> AS10 = $ 60 ZSN = $18 ... AS10 has to be better. Consumers would be pissed if it wasn't.
> 
> If you want an IEM to last 5-10-20 years... then KZ is the way to go.


Are consumers pissed ?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone heard of RTINGS.COM? I really like their reviews that I've seen so far.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/as10

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zs10


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> DO IT DO IT DO IT! Silver Back/Purple ZSN from Aliexpress for you! Yay!



Bought KZ ZSN Purple/Silver


----------



## khighly

We should stop calling the ZSN purple. It's more of a pink than purple


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you in Canada?


I wish! I'd rather be anywhere but USA right now.


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> I wish! I'd rather be anywhere but USA right now.



Not any better in the UK these days..  I am orginally from Michigan.  What state are you in?


----------



## khighly

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone heard of RTINGS.COM? I really like their reviews that I've seen so far.
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/as10
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zs10


I love rtings! They rate the AS10's as top 5 isolating from their entire bunch of headphones/iem's they've tested, with data to back it up. People don't believe me when I say the AS10's have more isolation than Bose QC35's since they paid $400 for them and think they're gods gift.


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> Not any better in the UK these days..  I am orginally from Michigan.  What state are you in?


I'm in Seattle. Might need to possibly apply for asylum soon (in USA!) and will be looking to Europe.


----------



## CYoung234

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I noticed you have a lot of headphones in your signature. Is ZS10 a top ear piece for you or do you prefer other brands vs KZ or other models?


The ZS10 is my favorite overall of all of them in my sig. The AKG and Fostex are not iems, and with proper amping, they can be pretty hard to beat. The AKG is a real classic for soundstage and midrange to die for, but it does not go very deep. It is a little hard to compare an iem to an open headphone like that, but the ZS10 does pretty well in soundstaging. The mids are good, natural to me for classical music, even good acoustic classical or large scale orchestral. 

I should note that I do not listen to the same music that many here do. No metal, trance, EDM, etc. I listen to classical, pop, alternative, progressive, some jazz. Stuff like Lindsey Stirling, Yes, Genesis, Sia, Coldplay, John Mayer, Tears for Fears, Sheryl Crow, Imagine Dragons and the Jezabels. For classical, a lot of large symphonic music, like Bruckner / Mahler / Strauss / Shostakovich / Prokofiev symphonies, and some solo works, like Martha Argerich.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> People don't believe me when I say the AS10's have more isolation than Bose QC35's since they paid $400 for them and think they're gods gift.


Are people paying $400 for the Bose for the isolation or the sound quality? You make it seem like the isolation. Lol.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> I wish! I'd rather be anywhere but USA right now.


I haven't been there in a while. What's wrong?  Or just point me to websites/forums when I can find the problems...


----------



## groucho69

khighly said:


> I love rtings! They rate the AS10's as top 5 isolating from their entire bunch of headphones/iem's they've tested, with data to back it up. People don't believe me when I say the AS10's have more isolation than Bose QC35's since they paid $400 for them and think they're gods gift.



Got like new 25 for $65. Great for the price. Only use them on the plane.


----------



## khighly

I've been using the ZSN's for the past few days and they're fairly good.They're fairly bassy (but not too much) and have good extension in each direction, and I can't notice any sibilance. I would actually prefer more high extension or presence. Mid bass is a few dB lower than than the AS10's but is still pretty present unlike most other KZ IEM's I have. Male & Female vocals are good. This is a baby AS10 I feel, but I need more time on them with comparisons between my other IEM's. The design is very pretty and looks extremely good. I hope KZ continues in this direction. I don't know about the crazy hype over them, but for $15 you're probably not going to find much better, especially in terms of build quality.

The new KZ connector is a major improvement and I hope they keep it going forward. It's a much more secure design and I think I'll feel safe walking around with these on the ZSN bluetooth cable around my neck.












I've kind of come to this point where I don't feel like anything is "better", it's just your preferred sound signature. Nothing really blows me away between borrowing friends IEM's & headphones, to my cheap KZ's. There are IEM's that make me happy to listen to music, but it's like chasing a dragon.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I haven't been there in a while. What's wrong?  Or just point me to websites/forums when I can find the problems...



Not interested in talking politics in depth on a Headphone/IEM forum .


----------



## groucho69

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are people paying $400 for the Bose for the isolation or the sound quality? You make it seem like the isolation. Lol.



It's not for SQ.


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are people paying $400 for the Bose for the isolation or the sound quality? You make it seem like the isolation. Lol.



They are paying for a 'name' and supposed kudos for being able to afford Bose.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Actually people are paying for a super comfortable top notch, best in class(now 2nd best) ANC Bluetooth Headset. It cost a lot of money to R&D the science and technology behind ANC. Its only fitting that BOSE and Sony would charge more for it. 

Also comparing a BT ANC over ear headphone to a cheap wired IEM is relevant how?


----------



## sino8r

khighly said:


> We should stop calling the ZSN purple. It's more of a pink than purple



Okay then, it's fusha! 



Conest said:


> Bought KZ ZSN Purple/Silver



Now get the AS10 lol! Seriously, I think you'll be happy with ZSA and ZSN, for a while... Welcome to the iem addiction! Starts with a few chi-fis, then you'll either collect every single KZ, TRN, TFZ, or blow hundreds on the mid tiers like Fiio, Sony, ibasso. I haven't crossed to the high-end like Campfire but my end of year bonus is gonna be tough to resist pissing it away on something like that. Those Atlases are like a siren call.


----------



## sino8r

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I haven't been there in a while. What's wrong?  Or just point me to websites/forums when I can find the problems...



Nothing is wrong. Some people like to overreact to things. As a fellow writer/editor, the quality of media here (and around the world) has gone down hill since the advent of social media and bloggers. Let's just leave it at that...


----------



## khighly

sino8r said:


> Now get the AS10 lol! Seriously, I think you'll be happy with ZSA and ZSN, for a while... Welcome to the iem addiction! Starts with a few chi-fis, then you'll either collect every single KZ, TRN, TFZ, or blow hundreds on the mid tiers like Fiio, Sony, ibasso. I haven't crossed to the high-end like Campfire but my end of year bonus is gonna be tough to resist pissing it away on something like that. Those Atlases are like a siren call.



After buying the IT03's, I will never purchase any IEM's above $100 again. They're not bad, just like I said above, it seems to be only a sound signature change. I could never justify any Campfire because I am 100% sure I would be greatly disappointed. AS10 is probably my favorite sound signature from all of my IEM's right now.


----------



## khighly

sino8r said:


> Nothing is wrong. Some people like to overreact to things. As a fellow writer/editor, the quality of media here (and around the world) has gone down hill since the advent of social media and bloggers. Let's just leave it at that...


There's *A LOT* wrong and people are right to react to things . Social Media has definitely lowered the quality of society & media as a whole for sure though.


----------



## sino8r

khighly said:


> After buying the IT03's, I will never purchase any IEM's above $100 again. They're not bad, just like I said above, it seems to be only a sound signature change. I could never justify any Campfire because I am 100% sure I would be greatly disappointed. AS10 is probably my favorite sound signature from all of my IEM's right now.



Yeah, I'm not impressed by ibasso either. They did so well with the IT01 that expectations were too high, I think. Plus the prices really skyrocketed with each new model. The IMR R1 b stock is really worth it though. Highly recommended. I don't think I'd buy the full price model but the b stock with minor shell imperfections is a great deal at 220. The nozzle changing ability can change the tuning from bass head to reference studio model. I've never heard such a variety of tuning available on one model but alot of people had a bad experience with Paul from Trinity and refused to buy from his new company. I completely understand that and am extremely weary of Kickstarters. The Fiio FH5 and TFZ Secret Gardens are other models for a bit less than the IT03s. The 3 mentioned iems are really are impressive imo. But yeah, I'm loving my AS10 as well! The GF loves her ZSN as well. I really hope KZ gives us a ZSN shaped shell with AS10 armatures. It's so comfortable and seals perfectly! 



khighly said:


> There's *A LOT* wrong and people are right to react to things . Social Media has definitely lowered the quality of society & media as a whole for sure though.



Yeah, there's definitely some problems for sure but it's no worse than any other country imo. Sure there are better ones around but they are much smaller. I just don't think we should try to leave our country when there is still hope and ways to improve things. I'm a middle of the ground guy so I can see both sides. The way things are divided politically now, I really see fault on both parties. It's silly to me. And yeah, social and professional media is embarrassing... It makes us all look crazy over here lol!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mybutthurts said:


> They are paying for a 'name' and supposed kudos for being able to afford Bose.


I miss Bose when they were just commercials on TV for those bedroom systems. 

People to need to realize if the scratch off the name Bose from the product, it's just a pair of crappy sounding headphones.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> After buying the IT03's, I will never purchase any IEM's above $100 again. They're not bad, just like I said above, it seems to be only a sound signature change. I could never justify any Campfire because I am 100% sure I would be greatly disappointed. AS10 is probably my favorite sound signature from all of my IEM's right now.


You're a smart woman, thanks for your wisdom. You're making the rest of us wiser and smarter too by sharing your thoughts.


----------



## SomeEntityThing (Nov 24, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are people paying $400 for the Bose for the isolation or the sound quality? You make it seem like the isolation. Lol.



2 words for a possible reason(?): "Conspicuous Consumption."

...Obv I'm kinda kidding, but there definitely are some people who simply haven't learned there are other decent enough options available for much better prices, even if Bose definitely is top-tier in terms of NC.


----------



## stryed (Nov 24, 2018)

sino8r said:


> Yeah, I'm not impressed by ibasso either. They did so well with the IT01 that expectations were too high, I think. Plus the prices really skyrocketed with each new model. The IMR R1 b stock is really worth it though. Highly recommended. I don't think I'd buy the full price model but the b stock with minor shell imperfections is a great deal at 220. The nozzle changing ability can change the tuning from bass head to reference studio model. I've never heard such a variety of tuning available on one model but alot of people had a bad experience with Paul from Trinity and refused to buy from his new company. I completely understand that and am extremely weary of Kickstarters. The Fiio FH5 and TFZ Secret Gardens are other models for a bit less than the IT03s. The 3 mentioned iems are really are impressive imo. But yeah, I'm loving my AS10 as well! The GF loves her ZSN as well. I really hope KZ gives us a ZSN shaped shell with AS10 armatures. It's so comfortable and seals perfectly!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, there's definitely some problems for sure but it's no worse than any other country imo. Sure there are better ones around but they are much smaller. I just don't think we should try to leave our country when there is still hope and ways to improve things. I'm a middle of the ground guy so I can see both sides. The way things are divided politically now, I really see fault on both parties. It's silly to me. And yeah, social and professional media is embarrassing... It makes us all look crazy over here lol!



The IT01 was released AFTER the IT03. The IT04 is getting good reviews and reported as affordable and a "bang for the buck" for some who are in the more expensive side of the spectrum (andromeda types ). IT01s,the new IT01 might not offer much improvement and charge quite a bit, à la TinAudio T2 Pro....Not much of a fan of these minor updates. TFZ seems to do so in excess.

I'm wary of buying anything above 100-150eu and am very satisfied with my IT01 and find it hard to justify getting anything else unless it is a different signature.


----------



## Conest

sino8r said:


> Okay then, it's fusha!
> 
> 
> 
> Now get the AS10 lol! Seriously, I think you'll be happy with ZSA and ZSN, for a while... Welcome to the iem addiction! Starts with a few chi-fis, then you'll either collect every single KZ, TRN, TFZ, or blow hundreds on the mid tiers like Fiio, Sony, ibasso. I haven't crossed to the high-end like Campfire but my end of year bonus is gonna be tough to resist pissing it away on something like that. Those Atlases are like a siren call.



Definitely...


----------



## SybilLance

khighly said:


> I've been using the ZSN's for the past few days and they're fairly good.They're fairly bassy (but not too much) and have good extension in each direction, and I can't notice any sibilance. I would actually prefer more high extension or presence. Mid bass is a few dB lower than than the AS10's but is still pretty present unlike most other KZ IEM's I have. Male & Female vocals are good. This is a baby AS10 I feel, but I need more time on them with comparisons between my other IEM's. The design is very pretty and looks extremely good. I hope KZ continues in this direction. I don't know about the crazy hype over them, but for $15 you're probably not going to find much better, especially in terms of build quality.
> 
> The new KZ connector is a major improvement and I hope they keep it going forward. It's a much more secure design and I think I'll feel safe walking around with these on the ZSN bluetooth cable around my neck.
> 
> ...



@khighly may I know the particular type of eartip you're using with the ZSN?

Got me an assortment of eartips and for the past couple of days I've been continually tip-rolling with the ZSN. Medium-to-wide-bore soft silicone tips work best for me and my small ears. Luckily an extra pair sent by the seller proved to be the ideal ones. For me at least, with these tips there is a discernible decrease in the higher bass such that the middle frequencies are opened up. Hence my impressions of an addictively fun balanced sound.

Tbh haven't tried the Ostrys, Auvios, Complys and other pricey tips.


----------



## sino8r

stryed said:


> The IT01 was released AFTER the IT03. The IT04 is getting good reviews and reported as affordable and a "bang for the buck" for some who are in the more expensive side of the spectrum (andromeda types ). IT01s,the new IT01 might not offer much improvement and charge quite a bit, à la TinAudio T2 Pro....Not much of a fan of these minor updates. TFZ seems to do so in excess.
> 
> I'm wary of buying anything above 100-150eu and am very satisfied with my IT01 and find it hard to justify getting anything else unless it is a different signature.



That's interesting. Being relatively new here, I assumed it was the first lol! Sounds like what some of the other higher end brands are doing. Releasing a budget model to give a taste of what their style is. From what I've heard the Campfire Comet is not a good example. Sounds like crap according to most. I've tried the IT01 and the IT04 and while they are definitely good, I'll found TFZ to have a style similar sound and at half the price. The TFZ Secret Garden and Fiio FH5 are both good options for that mid-tier sound at lower prices. Heck, with the AS10, I'd say KZ has really stepped up their game. It's getting more difficult to distinguish the mid tier stuff and their own flagship. I may just pass on the Campfire Atlas and wait on the new IMR, try the TFZ Secret Garden 3 (all BA model with tunable switches), see what KZ comes up with and still have extra cash left over for something non-iem related...


----------



## Slater

Hey BA10 owners:

Is the braided copper cable that comes with the BA10 any good?

I mean, how does it compare to the KZ silver upgrade cables, or the ZSN copper cable, etc?

Just curious, as it looks like a nice cable to perhaps use on other 2-pin models.


----------



## khighly (Nov 25, 2018)

1-2 Months In: ZS10's have great detail and instrument separation. Some things also sound like they have separate speakers. Probably the best soundstage of anything _recent_ in my signature. Possibly even up at ZS6 level soundstage. Easy to pick out some soundstage on most songs. Probably also the most 'flat' sound of KZ's I've heard. Everything is well controlled, with vocals possibly being a bit low. Good controlled highs that extend far without being sibilant. Mids are possibly recessed but it's a great improvement for KZ nonetheless. Lows & mid bass well controlled & extend plenty far. It's a 'comfortable' sound signature. I feel like maybe people coming from higher end bourgeois IEM's would enjoy these as $26 beaters.

Here's a spotify playlist of songs with wide soundstage:


----------



## Zerohour88 (Nov 25, 2018)

khighly said:


> After buying the IT03's, I will never purchase any IEM's above $100 again. They're not bad, just like I said above, it seems to be only a sound signature change. I could never justify any Campfire because I am 100% sure I would be greatly disappointed. AS10 is probably my favorite sound signature from all of my IEM's right now.



I had the chance to test out the CA Andromeda and compare to the rest of my cheapo collection (some KZ like the ZS5v1 and ATR included, of course) and sadly, the Andro blows them out of the water without dropping a beat. The most amazing soundstage and resolution I've ever had the chance to feast my ears on.

Is it really worth the price tag though? ultimately, that's up to the user's wallet. If you can drop 1k on an IEM like chump change, I guess it won't be an issue.

That being said, I also previously had the CA Lyra II to test, and while that had a brilliant treble and nice bass, it wasn't exactly mind-blowing.

For me though, I'd be going up the ladder slowly up until a point where either chi-fi catches up or I can't hear the difference anymore, maybe a bit of both.


----------



## HungryPanda

Slater said:


> Hey BA10 owners:
> 
> Is the braided copper cable that comes with the BA10 any good?
> 
> ...


It's a pretty good cable, I have changed most my KZ cables but perfectly happy with this one


----------



## CoiL (Nov 25, 2018)

stryed said:


> The IT01 was released AFTER the IT03. The IT04 is getting good reviews and reported as affordable and a "bang for the buck" for some who are in the more expensive side of the spectrum (andromeda types ). IT01s,the new IT01 might not offer much improvement and charge quite a bit, à la TinAudio T2 Pro....Not much of a fan of these minor updates. TFZ seems to do so in excess.
> 
> I'm wary of buying anything above 100-150eu and am very satisfied with my IT01 and find it hard to justify getting anything else unless it is a different signature.


+1



sino8r said:


> That's interesting. Being relatively new here, I assumed it was the first lol! Sounds like what some of the other higher end brands are doing. Releasing a budget model to give a taste of what their style is. From what I've heard the Campfire Comet is not a good example. Sounds like crap according to most. I've tried the IT01 and the IT04 and while they are definitely good, I'll found TFZ to have a style similar sound and at half the price. The TFZ Secret Garden and Fiio FH5 are both good options for that mid-tier sound at lower prices. Heck, with the AS10, I'd say KZ has really stepped up their game. It's getting more difficult to distinguish the mid tier stuff and their own flagship. I may just pass on the Campfire Atlas and wait on the new IMR, try the TFZ Secret Garden 3 (all BA model with tunable switches), see what KZ comes up with and still have extra cash left over for something non-iem related...


Just curious - what tips did You use with IT01 and how long did You have them (how many hours playtime?) ?

Sorry for OT.

I have 2 ZSN (cyan&purple) incoming. Will chime in when I receive them.
I have suspicion, by graphs I`ve seen, that ZS4 DD could be actually better than ZSN DD in certain setup.


----------



## Conest

btw.. customer support sent me this when i asked about the colors of ZSN..
They said... They look identical ..

(Hope it helps... Spoiler alert- It won't)
Love the color though


----------



## Conest (Nov 25, 2018)

https://prnt.sc/lmilyd"Purple"


----------



## randomnin

Conest said:


> https://prnt.sc/lmilyd"Purple"


Yeah, ZSN is none of those colours.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> It's a pretty good cable, I have changed most my KZ cables but perfectly happy with this one



Cool, thanks.

I found a seller on Aliexpress that had them for $2.87, which I thought was a bargain so I picked one up.


----------



## phower (Nov 25, 2018)

khighly said:


> 1-2 Months In: ZS10's have great detail and instrument separation. Some things also sound like they have separate speakers. Probably the best soundstage of anything _recent_ in my signature. Possibly even up at ZS6 level soundstage. Easy to pick out some soundstage on most songs. Probably also the most 'flat' sound of KZ's I've heard. Everything is well controlled, with vocals possibly being a bit low. Good controlled highs that extend far without being sibilant. Mids are possibly recessed but it's a great improvement for KZ nonetheless. Lows & mid bass well controlled & extend plenty far. It's a 'comfortable' sound signature. I feel like maybe people coming from higher end bourgeois IEM's would enjoy these as $26 beaters.
> 
> Here's a spotify playlist of songs with wide soundstage:




For soundstage, the crosstalk effect is crucial which headphones can't reproduce.
Luckily, there is a DSP effect that does that including taking into account the time delays.
Try this player https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.ideariboso.capriccio&hl=en 


It is also available for iPhones. Turn on 'headphone optimisation' in the app for the effect. I have been using this for several years and don't listen with out them.


----------



## pbui44

If you are thinking about getting a KZ, Penon Audio has a huge sale going on with the ED16 (1DD+2BA) for $12 and ZS10 (1DD+4BA) for $23 and will last for 5 days from this posting date:

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/kz-ed16.html?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100

https://penonaudio.com/earphones/kz-zs10.html?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100


----------



## Daniel Gur

I just got the ED16's, The bass is amazing, mid are great, the highs are great. Definitely worth the 16 bucks. Not sure how the new high tier models can top this.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Because I definitely need more IEMs at this point, how's the sound from the KZ ZS4 compared to the KZ ZS3 (Black packaging, so I'd assume it was before the apparent change in tuning for newer batches of the ZS3) with the acclaimed Slader (remove the red grill and foam in the tubes) mod? The ZS3 is special in my collection for its hilariously great isolation and if I can buy something else that also has a similar price and even better sound for commuting, well... it's something to consider when my budget allows it lol


----------



## Conest (Nov 25, 2018)

is memory wire really thay bad ?
If yes , please suggest a good cable for ZSA..
If not , please suggest a good cable for ZSA..(upto 10 or 12 $)
I can't spend 20$ (as of now)


----------



## mbwilson111

Conest said:


> is memory wire really thay bad ?
> If yes , please suggest a good cable for ZSA..
> If not , please suggest a good cable for ZSA..(upto 10 or 12 $)
> I can't spend 20$ (as of now)



The ZSA comes with a nice cable.  The memory wire on it doesn't annoy me.  It helps. I am actually using it on my ED16 which came with a horrible cable.


----------



## Conest

mbwilson111 said:


> The ZSA comes with a nice cable.  The memory wire on it doesn't annoy me.  It helps. I am actually using it on my ED16 which came with a horrible cable.


Thanks, That helps a lot


----------



## loomisjohnson

SomeEntityThing said:


> Because I definitely need more IEMs at this point, how's the sound from the KZ ZS4 compared to the KZ ZS3 (Black packaging, so I'd assume it was before the apparent change in tuning for newer batches of the ZS3) with the acclaimed Slader (remove the red grill and foam in the tubes) mod? The ZS3 is special in my collection for its hilariously great isolation and if I can buy something else that also has a similar price and even better sound for commuting, well... it's something to consider when my budget allows it lol


the zs4 is a step up from the zs3, with more extended treble and slightly better-controlled bass, but the same great isolation. i do rate the ed16 and zsr higher (havent gotten the zsn yet), but the zs4 is definitely worthy.


----------



## jibberish

Conest said:


> is memory wire really thay bad ?
> If yes , please suggest a good cable for ZSA..
> If not , please suggest a good cable for ZSA..(upto 10 or 12 $)
> I can't spend 20$ (as of now)


I removed the memory wire off of my ZSR and ZS4 cables. I'm not sure exactly what the ZSA cable looks like, but if it's similar to those you can get rid of the wire if you don't like it.


----------



## groucho69

SomeEntityThing said:


> 2 words for a possible reason(?): "Conspicuous Consumption."
> 
> ...Obv I'm kinda kidding, but there definitely are some people who simply haven't learned there are other decent enough options available for much better prices, even if Bose definitely is top-tier in terms of NC.



Why are we discussing BOSE in this thread anyway? I paid less for mine, used like new, than I did for my AS10. Not for SQ, although it is far from the worst that I have heard. For the bliss of having it on the screaming baby express when we fly to the Caribbean. Worth every penny then. Much more effective than anything else. I also bring buds for use on the beach.


----------



## Degree (Nov 25, 2018)

KZ ZSN came in today, got silver/purple. Coming from a KZ ZS3 not sure how I feel about these. Maybe I'm too used to my ZS3s since I've had them for like a year and a half as my daily, but the ZSN feel less lively. I'll be using it to the next week and see if I adjust. However, I love how much more comfortable they are compared to the ZS3, my ears would hurt after an hour but the ZSN doesn't "puncture" or push against my ears.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Degree said:


> Maybe I'm too used to my ZS3s since I've had them for like a year and a half as my daily, but the ZSN feel less lively.



I wonder what people who have heard both think of this comment?


----------



## khighly

ZS3/ZS4 are the only 'modern' KZ IEM's I have yet to pick up. Maybe I'll order ZS4 tonight.


----------



## Slater

Degree said:


> KZ ZSN came in today, got silver/purple. Coming from a KZ ZS3 not sure how I feel about these. Maybe I'm too used to my ZS3s since I've had them for like a year and a half as my daily, but the ZSN feel less lively. I'll be using it to the next week and see if I adjust. However, I love how much more comfortable they are compared to the ZS3, my ears would hurt after an hour but the ZSN doesn't "puncture" or push against my ears.



Just curious what your source is on both? Any amp?


----------



## Degree

Slater said:


> Just curious what your source is on both? Any amp?



Pixel 2 XL, no amp


----------



## 1clearhead

Hmmm?

The ZSN are some of the most energetic and liveliest earphones I've ever heard in a long time.


----------



## Degree

1clearhead said:


> Hmmm?
> 
> The ZSN are some of the most energetic and liveliest earphones I've ever heard in a long time.



Compared to my ZS3 it doesn't seem like it, will see how I feel about them a week from now I've only used them for a day (6/8 hours).


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 25, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I wonder what people who have heard both think of this comment?



For me ZS3 is a overly warm bassy iem with recessed mids and soft treble that rolls off making it a very smooth ride. ZSN is more or less a slightly warm iem with outstanding bass quality Mids are slightly warm and upper mids are forward and bright. Treble is bright and has good detail. Very good sound sig that works great for all genres.

Probably is the source/phone. Maybe a lack of seal?  ZSN is probably the most energetic and lively iem KZ has made. 

Could be a defective unit?

or

Some people like certain things and other people like other things. LOL.


----------



## HAMS

Degree said:


> KZ ZSN came in today, got silver/purple. Coming from a KZ ZS3 not sure how I feel about these. Maybe I'm too used to my ZS3s since I've had them for like a year and a half as my daily, but the ZSN feel less lively. I'll be using it to the next week and see if I adjust. However, I love how much more comfortable they are compared to the ZS3, my ears would hurt after an hour but the ZSN doesn't "puncture" or push against my ears.



What do you mean by "lively". Maybe you think more bass is lively and other think more treble is?


----------



## voicemaster

Zs3 compared to zsn? Zs3 sounds pretty muted especially the high, bass will be bloated into the mid and the mid is not helping either because it is overly recessed.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 26, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> The ZSN are some of the most energetic and liveliest earphones I've ever heard in a long time.


Does that mean ZSN kick AS10's ass? ;P


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does that mean ZSN kick AS10's ass? ;P


Stay tuned...!


----------



## DocHoliday

Seems like BQEYZ is quickly becoming healthy competition for KZ, hence the new BQEYZ thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bqeyz-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.894089/#post-14620632


----------



## Wiljen

DocHoliday said:


> Seems like BQEYZ is quickly becoming healthy competition for KZ, hence the new BQEYZ thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bqeyz-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.894089/#post-14620632



Considering the price points, BQEYZ competes with the AS10, BA10, Zs10 range of KZ.   I think the <$15 market is still safely in KZ possession.


----------



## khighly (Nov 26, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does that mean ZSN kick AS10's ass? ;P


Nope . They aren't better than AS10, ZS10, ZS5v1. They're really good especially for the price, build quality, and design, but the hype around them is very bloated. It's almost as if the rest of head-fi finally tried chi-fi with the ZSN's.


----------



## tinbilly (Nov 26, 2018)

cacio said:


> no aptx. i asked many aliexpress sellers. its a realtek chip, not a qualcomm one. so no aptx for sure. aac dont know.
> 
> but maybe if you have some know how of android modding, you could get SBC bitrate mode working
> 
> ...





cacio said:


> yeah since android 8, you have AAC, aptx, aptx HD, LDAC bluetooth codecs included in every phone. google has made a deal that its licence free now on android. only the "receiver" device has to pay licence fee for the codecs.
> 
> and who knows, maybe the TRN BT20 has AAC. we have to wait for the reviews
> 
> and regarding battery life, thats why i want to see something like TRN BT20 but with the new Qualcomm bluetooth 5.0 SoC. they should be up to 65% more efficient. so we could have ~10h play time instead of the ~5h. sadly there is not much info about the realtek 5.0 SoC, but looking from the specs on the aliexpress pages, it does not seem to be that the realtek 5.0 is that efficient



Just got a TRN-BT20. Confirm that it has AAC.

The good things are:
- Sound, connection and battery seems quite good. It's still playing well since last charge 4 hours ago.
- Stereo mode when making/receiving a call
- One-touch operation does activate voice control
- Pairing is easy

Not so-good things:
- One-touch operation does not work well as advertised: "press twice" does not trigger "next track"; "press thrice" does not trigger "previous track"
- Right ear hook sometimes drops connection for just 1 second, then reconnects immediately

Overall, quite happy with the purchase for a cost of around 27usd.
_
P.S.: Mine is a 0.78mm 2-pin hooked to a Kinera H3, paired to a Blackberry Keyone Black-edition._


----------



## maxxevv

The TRN BT20 came in last Friday but couldn' t get the left/ right to pair up correctly as there was no instruction provided in the packaging. 
Very thankful to Jim of NiceHCK for stepping and getting the instructions (in chinese) and sending it to me over the weekend. Kudos to him. 

After pairing up, it was pretty straightforward every other time. Pairing with handphone was practically instant. 

Sound: 
It seems to be slightly brighter than my normal LG G6 Quad DAC on wired. 
But otherwise, bass, mids and treble have not been obviously skewed to notice easily. 

Plenty of power for the AS10 and ZS10. My volume control is at about 60-70% for ZS10 listening to Classical music. A notch less for pop. Another notch down when using the AS10.

Connection: 
As noted, there were perhaps 3 'glitches' in the right pieces in about 2~3 hours of listening time. But generally connection was still solid between partitions up to maybe 7 meters away. I didn't try further. 

Abnormalies: 
In seated mode on the bus/ train, sound was basically like how you'll hear it with wires.  But the moment i started walking with the phone in my hand, a stramge phenomena happened, the sound stage just strangely sounded like it had expanded to a few meters wider rather than the typical feel. 
Not that it was bad, im fact I liked that effect!  Not sure if Tinbilly had that 'out of body' experience too. 

Fit: Wire is a little stiff, so if the curve doesn't fit your ears , it might pose comfort issues. It literally disappears behind the ears once worn. Very neat ! 

I would say its a good module for the US$25/+ I paid for mine.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> Nope . They aren't better than AS10, ZS10, ZS5v1. They're really good especially for the price, build quality, and design, but the hype around them is very bloated. It's almost as if the rest of head-fi finally tried chi-fi with the ZSN's.


I'm also thinking there might be some hype beasts working for KZ here...


----------



## tinbilly

maxxevv said:


> The TRN BT20 came in last Friday but couldn' t get the left/ right to pair up correctly as there was no instruction provided in the packaging.
> Very thankful to Jim of NiceHCK for stepping and getting the instructions (in chinese) and sending it to me over the weekend. Kudos to him.
> 
> After pairing up, it was pretty straightforward every other time. Pairing with handphone was practically instant.
> ...



How is your experience with the one-touch operation?


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm also thinking there might be some hype beasts working for KZ here...



ultimately its all up to readers to interpret the "hype". People are recommending the ZSN, but not making it clear to the less-informed occasional readers that "yes, it is good, but for $20 range." Which is why I prefer reviews like b9scrambler or crinacle, putting their foot down and saying "this is the level of technical ability for this particular IEM", instead of skirting around marketing terms.

It might seem like common sense that a company wouldn't butcher their own flagship by releasing a cheaper model that outperforms, but not a lot of of people have those, apparently.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 26, 2018)

khighly said:


> Nope . They aren't better than AS10, ZS10, ZS5v1. They're really good especially for the price, build quality, and design, but the hype around them is very bloated. It's almost as if the rest of head-fi finally tried chi-fi with the ZSN's.




In general I agree with this after pouring through the last twenty pages or so. On the other hand the build quality, detachable cables and tuning speak volumes about where Chi-Fi can go. B9 hit the nail on the head when he stated "$20 Has Never Gone So Far".

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/

 It seeems that $20 might be the high end as some have picked up a ZSN for  $12+/- which is near comical when price-to-value comes into play. It's a win-win for the enthusiasts. 

On another note, I need to pick up an AS10 and compare it to my modded BA10 for similarities because the BA10, though not perfect, is GREAT! My modded BA10 (foam and screen removed) just trounces my ZS5(v1), mostly on timbre, which I wasn't expecting. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts, B9's thoughts and Panda's thoughts on the AS10/BA10 versus the ZS5(v1).


----------



## CardigdanWalk

maxxevv said:


> The TRN BT20 came in last Friday but couldn' t get the left/ right to pair up correctly as there was no instruction provided in the packaging.
> Very thankful to Jim of NiceHCK for stepping and getting the instructions (in chinese) and sending it to me over the weekend. Kudos to him.
> 
> After pairing up, it was pretty straightforward every other time. Pairing with handphone was practically instant.
> ...



Any info on setting up? I can get it only out of one ear at a time!


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Ooh, think I’ve got it.

Push and hold both on simultaneously and eventually you will hear two jingles and it will turn off, then turn them both on and after a while I heard another jingle and they are synced

Listing now with KZ ZS5v1 and it’s heavenly.

Have tried the official KZ bluetooth, TRN BT 3, TRN BT10 ... and while each has been better than the last there was always something not just right.

None of that with the BT20, wish I had saved my money and waited!


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 26, 2018)

tinbilly said:


> Just got a TRN-BT20. Confirm that it has AAC.
> 
> The good things are:
> - Sound, connection and battery seems quite good. It's still playing well since last charge 4 hours ago.
> ...





CardigdanWalk said:


> Ooh, think I’ve got it.
> 
> Push and hold both on simultaneously and eventually you will hear two jingles and it will turn off, then turn them both on and after a while I heard another jingle and they are synced
> 
> ...



Well, crap. I guess I'll have to try the BT20 too then. And my BT10 should be showing up this week (I hope)...


----------



## HAMS

Also can anyone post pictures how trn bt20 looks on ear.


----------



## khighly

DocHoliday said:


> In general I agree with this after pouring through the last twenty pages or so. On the other hand the build quality, detachable cables and tuning speak volumes about where Chi-Fi can go. B9 hit the nail on the head when he stated "$20 Has Never Gone So Far".
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/
> 
> ...



For $12 the ZSN is an absolute no brainer. The build quality alone and detachable cable are worth that. ZST could probably be discontinued when they sell all of their stock as this is a great replacement with a similar sound signature.


----------



## khighly

assassin10000 said:


> Well, crap. I guess I'll have to try the BT20 too then. And my BT10 should be showing up this week (I hope)...


Please let us know if your BT10 is wired out of phase.


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> For $12 the ZSN is an absolute no brainer. The build quality alone and detachable cable are worth that. ZST could probably be discontinued when they sell all of their stock as this is a great replacement with a similar sound signature.



It is interesting that you compare it with the ZST.  The ZST is my least favorite KZ (of those I own). I hear a harshness in vocals.   But I love my ZSN. I have the Purple one and have ordered the Cyan as a backup.  I notice some people are calling it green and some photos do look that way.  Cyan should be more a a blue green.  I guess I will find out when it gets here.


----------



## assassin10000

khighly said:


> Please let us know if your BT10 is wired out of phase.



Will do. I already came across your post about re-soldering it to correct being out of phase. I'll have to get a finer tip for my soldering iron though.


----------



## khighly

BT3 came wired correctly


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 26, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> It is interesting that you compare it with the ZST.  The ZST is my least favorite KZ (of those I own). I hear a harshness in vocals.   But I love my ZSN. I have the Purple one and have ordered the Cyan as a backup.  I notice some people are calling it green and some photos do look that way.  Cyan should be more a a blue green.  I guess I will find out when it gets here.


+1 I don't remember ZST sounding anything close to the ZSN with those harsh vocals and mid-bass slam resonating from the plastic housing, which the ZSN is the contrary to that -deeper sub-bass and non-harsh sounding vocals. Can't seem to figure out how they are compatable in signature. I sent them back after the burn-in trial several years back.

...still waiting on my black on black ZSN order.


----------



## khighly (Nov 26, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> It is interesting that you compare it with the ZST.  The ZST is my least favorite KZ (of those I own). I hear a harshness in vocals.   But I love my ZSN. I have the Purple one and have ordered the Cyan as a backup.  I notice some people are calling it green and some photos do look that way.  Cyan should be more a a blue green.  I guess I will find out when it gets here.


I definitely feel the ZST is the lesser of the two, the ZSN with more clarity, but the sound signature isn't too different except sibilance on female vocals is non-existent. I've always enjoyed the ZST's as a cheap end IEM. ZSN to me is an upgrade to the ZST.


----------



## Degree (Nov 26, 2018)

I'm going to be giving the one of the ZSNs to my SO and well, she has a really small ear canal. Now even with the smallest eartips included we can't seem to make it fit even with the foam tips I've got from new bee. Without the tips they fit fine.. but that not ideal. Does anyone know any other tips that are smaller than these.. I'm not sure if they exist. She's been using the traditional flat earbuds all of her life as IEMs have always not fit/uncomfortable for her, but I would really want to find a IEM that works for her otherwise I might have to just get a Vido or Qian69.


Also I'm on my second day of using the ZSNs and I think I'm starting to like them and so far will most likely be using these as my dailies as they are way more comfortable than the KZ3s. Now when I say less lively, for me lively as in the warm bass-ness signature which I've gotten used to. The ZSNs are definitely more balanced which I'm starting to like.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I'd also agree to try to avoid "hype" on new products. For $20, these are definitely nice but don't expect it to be any more than really good value for the $20 budget range.
I've also attached a picture of the cyans and purple, under 6500k temp. they are definitely cyan! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




https://i.lensdump.com/i/Asmzbi.jpg


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> The TRN BT20 came in last Friday but couldn' t get the left/ right to pair up correctly as there was no instruction provided in the packaging.
> Very thankful to Jim of NiceHCK for stepping and getting the instructions (in chinese) and sending it to me over the weekend. Kudos to him.
> 
> After pairing up, it was pretty straightforward every other time. Pairing with handphone was practically instant.
> ...



Do you mind sharing the instructions?


----------



## mbwilson111

Degree said:


> I've also attached a picture of the cyans and purple, under 6500k temp. they are definitely cyan!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice job of capturing the color.  I have the purple that that is how it looks to me.  When I googled "cyan" I got this from Wikipedia and the cyan ZSN fits right into this range.  I wish my cyan one would hurry up and arrive.  My husband is waiting for the black one.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> ultimately its all up to readers to interpret the "hype". People are recommending the ZSN, but not making it clear to the less-informed occasional readers that "yes, it is good, but for $20 range." Which is why I prefer reviews like b9scrambler or crinacle, putting their foot down and saying "this is the level of technical ability for this particular IEM", instead of skirting around marketing terms.
> 
> It might seem like common sense that a company wouldn't butcher their own flagship by releasing a cheaper model that outperforms, but not a lot of of people have those, apparently.



When did crinacle review the ZSN? Apparently I missed that boat. He is normally very critical of anything KZ.


----------



## maxxevv (Nov 26, 2018)

tinbilly said:


> How is your experience with the one-touch operation?



I haven't gone on to use the buttons for calls as I generally don't do it while listening to music. And I prefer to use the handphone interface for controls too.  Can't help there unfortunately.



CardigdanWalk said:


> Any info on setting up? I can get it only out of one ear at a time!





Slater said:


> Do you mind sharing the instructions?



Sure! The instructions in chinese I got from TRN via Jim at NiceHCK. A little convoluted if its anything to begin with, as its not exactly in sequence.
The module and phone pairing sequence in short is this:

1: Long press button on both modules for about 5 seconds for Left/Right pairing sequence.
2. Once there,  press the button on Right module 2 times quickly.  The Left / Right are paired. You'll see the light on one of the module fades and turns offs. Left/Right Pairing is done.
3. Switch off the modules.
4. To pair with phone, long press for 3~5 seconds, and turn on BT module on handphone / laptop to search and pair.  It will pair as per any normal BT module now.
5. If left/right pairing fails,  you can reset/redo the pairing by long pressing the buttons for both modules for 15 seconds to clear the memory. And repeat from Step 1.

Not too difficult if done correct as the double-click part was what duped me initially. I couldn't get it to pair properly as a pair either.







HAMS said:


> Also can anyone post pictures how trn bt20 looks on ear.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Well, crap. I guess I'll have to try the BT20 too then. And my BT10 should be showing up this week (I hope)...



Make sure you test the BT10 when you get it, as many are internally wired out of phase.


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> Also can anyone post pictures how trn bt20 looks on ear.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Nice job of capturing the color.  I have the purple that that is how it looks to me.  When I googled "cyan" I got this from Wikipedia and the cyan ZSN fits right into this range.  I wish my cyan one would hurry up and arrive.  My husband is waiting for the black one.


+1 Yup!...that's Cyan.

...I also remember Barney being purple


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> When did crinacle review the ZSN? Apparently I missed that boat. He is normally very critical of anything KZ.



Ah, the wording might make it seem like crin reviewed the ZSN, I was just mentioning the type of reviews I prefer, not just specifically for KZ. To be fair, he's critical of everything, not just KZ (pretty sure he actually put the ZST and ZS3 above models from the likes of AAW and Shozy). His ranking is more or less based on his standards of "technical ability". And for most of the models in that list I tested, I agree with the standings.


----------



## DocHoliday

1clearhead said:


> +1 Yup!...that's Cyan.
> 
> ...I also remember Barney being purple




Everybody remembers Barney...



Spoiler



.





...but it was Arnie that left the lasting impression.



Spoiler








Just couldn't resist. 

At any rate, it looks like the same color of the ZST.


----------



## Ted Presley (Nov 26, 2018)

This is my purple KZ ZSN, for 13 USD, it's a real bargain .


----------



## MrMajony

Ted Presley said:


> This is my purple KZ ZSN, for 13 USD, it's a real bargain .



Where did you buy them for $ 13?


----------



## Ted Presley (Nov 27, 2018)

MrMajony said:


> Where did you buy them for $ 13?


My local online shop, very good price + bonus a nice small earphone holder case. Really unbeatable price for the whole package.


----------



## manjunath1915

Ted Presley said:


> This is my purple KZ ZSN, for 13 USD, it's a real bargain .


Is that type c cable?


----------



## Ted Presley

manjunath1915 said:


> Is that type c cable?


Nope, it's 3.5mm jack, I plugged it into a 3.5mm to type C jack in the picture.


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 27, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> In general I agree with this after pouring through the last twenty pages or so. On the other hand the build quality, detachable cables and tuning speak volumes about where Chi-Fi can go. B9 hit the nail on the head when he stated "$20 Has Never Gone So Far".
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/
> 
> It seeems that $20 might be the high end as some have picked up a ZSN for  $12+/- which is near comical when price-to-value comes into play. It's a win-win for the enthusiasts.



I agree with Doc.

It seems clear enough that the enthusiasm generated by the ZSN not only here but elsewhere is not singularly premised on how superlative its sound is; but rather on how good it sounds plus how premium its aesthetics, build and feel are, and how much of an improvement it's 2-pin cable is, given its price.

Simply put, people are excited about, and are eagerly promoting, the ZSN from the proposition and standpoint of value.

Psst...notice how I didn't use that 4-letter noun that begins with h, contains y and p and ends with e?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 27, 2018)

.


----------



## TLDRonin

SybilLance said:


> that 4-letter noun that begins with h, contains y and p and ends with e?


Im going to need some more clues to decipher this mystery word


----------



## webvan

Slater said:


>


Which TRN IEMs are these ? I have the TRN V80 and I (and everyone else it seems) get very annoying noise floor/hiss with the TRN BT3 when the music is low in volume or between tracks, or after I hit pause for about 2/3 seconds. I don't get that hiss with the non-aptX control+battery on one side) KZ BT adapter.


----------



## Zerohour88

Review of the KZ ZSN by bisonicr:

http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55734728.html

summary, he likes it a lot. Overall an improvement in terms of resolution and clarity even among KZ's own recent models in the same price bracket, not to mention the build quality. He also confirms that the 2 pin on ZSN is the same as qdc cables (not that they are even in the same stratosphere of price bracket, but the option's there).


----------



## randomnin (Nov 27, 2018)

Is it just me or do these graphs look uncannily similar up to 3kHz? It gives me the impression that ZS10, ZSN and ES4 have the same 10mm DD, identically tuned.


----------



## Slater

webvan said:


> Which TRN IEMs are these ? I have the TRN V80 and I (and everyone else it seems) get very annoying noise floor/hiss with the TRN BT3 when the music is low in volume or between tracks, or after I hit pause for about 2/3 seconds. I don't get that hiss with the non-aptX control+battery on one side) KZ BT adapter.



Looks like the V80 in the photo.

BTW, that isn’t me in the photo. It was just some random photo someone posted. I dont knkw if it’s an official TRN marketing photo, or some HF member’ photo.


----------



## dondonut

So today I´ve been working on an experiment for 7h in a row, just now had my first break and I spill a full cup of coffee over myself because the elevator closed early. To console myself I just ordered the ZSN black


----------



## mbwilson111

dondonut said:


> So today I´ve been working on an experiment for 7h in a row, just now had my first break and I spill a full cup of coffee over myself because the elevator closed early. To console myself I just ordered the ZSN black



That makes perfect sense.


----------



## webvan

Slater said:


> Looks like the V80 in the photo.
> 
> BTW, that isn’t me in the photo. It was just some random photo someone posted. I dont knkw if it’s an official TRN marketing photo, or some HF member’ photo.


ok thanks, I'm curious if someone here with the TRN V80 is getting the BT20 to see if it has the same terrible hiss problem as the BT3...


----------



## randomnin

mbwilson111 said:


> That makes perfect sense.


I guess he's a scientist who misjudged his body parameters and ran in the elevator door instead of making it through the opening. And easing any and every life's pain with new purchases is a pretty common trait amongst headfiers.


----------



## blur.png

randomnin said:


> Is it just me or do these graphs look uncannily similar up to 3kHz? It gives me the impression that ZS10, ZSN and ES4 have the same 10mm DD, identically tuned.


huh, judging by the graph the ZSN is a combination of the zs10 and es4, they have the es4 like sound until around 10k  and the zs10 for the rest

oh well i guess the wait for the zsn felt longer after reading this


----------



## Slater (Nov 27, 2018)

webvan said:


> ok thanks, I'm curious if someone here with the TRN V80 is getting the BT20 to see if it has the same terrible hiss problem as the BT3...



Hiss is indicative of sensitivity. It sounds like the v80 might just be sensitive IEMs. Not all that uncommon with some IEMs.

My Magaosi K5 are extremely sensitive. Depending on what source I use them with, they can hiss.

I recommend trying the BT3 with a different IEM.


----------



## randomnin (Nov 27, 2018)

blur.png said:


> huh, judging by the graph the ZSN is a combination of the zs10 and es4, they have the es4 like sound until around 10k  and the zs10 for the rest
> 
> oh well i guess the wait for the zsn felt longer after reading this


That's less likely since ZS10 has a BA that the other two don't and a more complex crossover. The 0-3000Hz looks so similar (overall shape and the distortion at 700-800hz, which is not present in ThePhonograph graphs of KZs with an 8mm DD, like ZS4) that it begs a conclusion about the DD used, while the high frequency similarity between ZSN and ZS10 looks more like a similarity of signature, not a downright mirroring of it.


----------



## webvan

Slater said:


> Hiss is indicative of sensitivity. It sounds like the v80 might just be sensitive IEMs. Not all that uncommon with some IEMs.
> 
> My Magaosi K5 are extremely sensitive. Depending on what source I use them with, they can hiss.
> 
> I recommend trying the BT3 with a different IEM.


Yes there's a lot less hiss with using the KZ-ZS3 but it's not exactly the same SQ  Also it's a design problem on the BT3 because the KZ BT (non aptX, controls+battery on the right) produces no audible hiss with the TRN V80. It's too bad the overall design isn't as good at the BT3's !


----------



## nicksson

Today has arrived my ZSN. First impression, after about 1 hour of using it: the sound is really better than the ES4's sound - more clear, brighter, it seems like the stage is also larger. Almost perfectly balanced sound. More comfortable than ES4 (case like ZST).
ZS10 and AS10 have even a larger stage and more details, but because ZSN is more comfortable this will be my favorite earphone along the day.


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> Hmmm?
> 
> The ZSN are some of the most energetic and liveliest earphones I've ever heard in a long time.



Gonna see this comment over n over again until my ZSN arrives...
Hype !!!


----------



## HungryPanda

Still waiting for my ZSN to arrive.........


----------



## mbwilson111

Still waiting for my second pair of ZSNs to arrive... lol.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> Still waiting for my second pair of ZSNs to arrive... lol.



Waiting on pairs 2,3,4 & 5 to arrive for X-Mas gifts


----------



## voicemaster

Podster said:


> Waiting on pairs 2,3,4 & 5 to arrive for X-Mas gifts



It makes perfect Christmas gift for real.


----------



## voicemaster

nicksson said:


> Today has arrived my ZSN. First impression, after about 1 hour of using it: the sound is really better than the ES4's sound - more clear, brighter, it seems like the stage is also larger. Almost perfectly balanced sound. More comfortable than ES4 (case like ZST).
> ZS10 and AS10 have even a larger stage and more details, but because ZSN is more comfortable this will be my favorite earphone along the day.



I can't wait for my AS10 to arrive from China. Is AS10 not comfortable? I know it is bigger size than ZSN, but I hope it is not as big as JH Roxanne.


----------



## nicksson (Nov 27, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> I can't wait for my AS10 to arrive from China. Is AS10 not comfortable? I know it is bigger size than ZSN, but I hope it is not as big as JH Roxanne.


No, I don't say that AS10 is not comfortable. AS10 looks like ZS10 and ES4, so their case is just a little bigger than ZSN. That is, AS10, ZS10 and ES4 comes a little out of my ear, so sometimes I look like Frankestein (from cartoons) with protruding earplugs.

But I used to listen with AS10 for more then 6 hours in a row, with none discomfort, so keep waiting and then enjoy your AS10, it absolutely worth the money!


----------



## Bartig (Nov 27, 2018)

I'm sorry to be that guy. I think I'll be the first one to criticise the ZSN. I think KZ still hasn't mastered the finetuning of the upper mids. Female vocals sound upfront, but can also sound so blown up they lose their natural tonality. They can even sound a bit tinny.

Cymbals too can be a bit off. Try Team from Lorde for example. A dark, sweet sounding song but the cymbals (sorry, actually slaps here!) sound very loud, even piercing on the ZSN.

Happily, the upper mids are still better controlled than on the many KZ's released mid year.

Furthermore, the soundstage, instrument separarion and bass are definitely above average - a great lot of typical audiophile test tracks sound amazing on these! But to say this is the new king of budget IEM's, no, that is a bridge too far for me. Yet. Let's test it a little more. 

Edits: added some more test notes


----------



## stryed (Nov 27, 2018)

Bartig said:


> I'm sorry to be that guy. I think I'll be the first one to criticise the ZSN. I think KZ still hasn't mastered the upper mids. Female vocals sound upfront, sure, but are also so blown up they  lose their natural tonality. They can even sound  a bit tinny.
> 
> Cymbals too can be piercing. Try Team from Lorde for example. A dark, sweet sounding song but the cymbals sound very loud, even piercing on the ZSN.
> 
> ...



Party pooper. Shame on you.


----------



## Conest

stryed said:


> Party pooper. Shame on you.


Yeaa seriously... Who talks like that ?


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 27, 2018)

Bartig said:


> I'm sorry to be that guy. I think I'll be the first one to criticise the ZSN. I think KZ still hasn't mastered the upper mids. Female vocals sound upfront, sure, but are also so blown up they  lose their natural tonality. They can even sound  a bit tinny.
> 
> Cymbals too can be piercing. Try Team from Lorde for example. A dark, sweet sounding song but the cymbals sound very loud, even piercing on the ZSN.
> 
> ...



Tried that song (FLAC) and couldn't even notice any sibilance at all. I am using trn bt3 and foam tips with my ZSN. Have you burn in yours yet? I have probably over 200 hours with mine.


----------



## Bartig

voicemaster said:


> Tried that song (FLAC) and couldn't even notice any sibilance at all. I am using trn bt3 and foam tips with my ZSN. Have you burn in yours yet? I have probably over 200 hours with mine.


Not talking about sibilance, talking about cymbals coming in at too high volume - well at the volume I'm listening. Having them at lower volume, I don't have the problem.


----------



## voicemaster

Bartig said:


> Not talking about sibilance, talking about cymbals coming in at too high volume - well at the volume I'm listening. Having them at lower volume, I don't have the problem.



Should try Glory and Gore by lorde, the bass is so sweet and have that airy bass like subwoofer sounding.


----------



## Bartig

Forget my little note on the cymbal frequency...

My God, the ZSN is amazing! That bass rumble! The clarity! The separation! The soundstage. WOW.


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> Forget my little note on the cymbal frequency...
> 
> My God, the ZSN is amazing! That bass rumble! The clarity! The separation! The soundstage. WOW.



So what part of your previous post a few back is still how you feel? The blown up female vocals? The non-king of budget? Tinny?


----------



## Bartig (Nov 27, 2018)

Slater said:


> So what part of your previous post a few back is still how you feel? The blown up female vocals? The non-king of budget? Tinny?


I (wisely ) decided to not shout my first thoughts anymore, but give it more extensive listening and time.


----------



## voicemaster

The ZSN needs a little bit time to settle down when new. One hour of pink noise should be enough to remove most of the sibilance.


----------



## Slater

Bartig said:


> I (wisely ) decided to not shout my first thoughts anymore, but give it more extensive listening and time.



Take your time. I’ll be interested in hearing your thoughts when you’re ready.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> It makes perfect Christmas gift for real.


Unless you mention the price, relatives would think you paid a lot of money for them.


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> Unless you mention the price, relatives would think you paid a lot of money for them.



They need not know


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Penon Audio has a 50% off sale right now.

They have the KZ Bluetooth cable, KZ Silver IEM Upgrade cable, ED16, ZS10, ZS5 and ZST.

https://penonaudio.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=kz

I've been told they will no longer carry the AS10. I wonder why?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> It makes perfect Christmas gift for real.


Sony is going to be pissed you supported the competition.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Penon Audio has a 50% off sale right now.
> 
> They have the KZ Bluetooth cable, KZ Silver IEM Upgrade cable, ED16, ZS10, ZS5 and ZST.
> 
> ...



They’re no longer going to carry the ED16 as well (no one is). Once the ED16 are gone, they’re gone forever.


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 28, 2018)

khighly said:


> Please let us know if your BT10 is wired out of phase.





Slater said:


> Make sure you test the BT10 when you get it, as many are internally wired out of phase.




Got my BT10's in earlier today and (fortunately) they are in phase. Gave them a full charge before pairing, they are full volume on the BT10 and average about 45-50% on my phone. Currently been playing non-stop for approx. 4hr 15mins.


Update: low battery warning finally hit. 3:45pm-11:01pm 7hrs 16mins.


----------



## Conest

Bartig said:


> Forget my little note on the cymbal frequency...
> 
> My God, the ZSN is amazing! That bass rumble! The clarity! The separation! The soundstage. WOW.


There you go..
Now I can't waitt !!!


----------



## exavolt

Question about ZSN.

It's said that the silver-purple version comes with a better cable. How better is it? Is it about the build or the sound?

I am thinking of getting the black one, but might getting the silver-purple one if the cable is significantly better.


----------



## SybilLance

randomnin said:


> Is it just me or do these graphs look uncannily similar up to 3kHz? It gives me the impression that ZS10, ZSN and ES4 have the same 10mm DD, identically tuned.





blur.png said:


> huh, judging by the graph the ZSN is a combination of the zs10 and es4, they have the es4 like sound until around 10k  and the zs10 for the rest
> 
> oh well i guess the wait for the zsn felt longer after reading this





randomnin said:


> That's less likely since ZS10 has a BA that the other two don't and a more complex crossover. The 0-3000Hz looks so similar (overall shape and the distortion at 700-800hz, which is not present in ThePhonograph graphs of KZs with an 8mm DD, like ZS4) that it begs a conclusion about the DD used, while the high frequency similarity between ZSN and ZS10 looks more like a similarity of signature, not a downright mirroring of it.



Could it be...Dare I say KZ—and for that matter most earphone manufacturers—are using the published Harman preference curve for in-ears as reference then fine-tuning for a unique finished signature from that base sound? Those graphs all look remarkably similar and familiar, the ZSN's included.

Was drafting a document last night but then got sidetracked because I wanted to find out for myself about Dr. Olive's research. Browser tabs galore. Expected a nosebleed too but instead woke up bleary-eyed and frantically chasing a morning deadline. And the headache is sadistic.


----------



## voicemaster

exavolt said:


> Question about ZSN.
> 
> It's said that the silver-purple version comes with a better cable. How better is it? Is it about the build or the sound?
> 
> I am thinking of getting the black one, but might getting the silver-purple one if the cable is significantly better.



It's both built and sound. The clear cable that came with silver/purple is definitely thicker than the brown cable. For sound, it makes the bass tighter and a little bit more treble extension to my ears.


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 28, 2018)

exavolt said:


> Question about ZSN.
> 
> It's said that the silver-purple version comes with a better cable. How better is it? Is it about the build or the sound?
> 
> I am thinking of getting the black one, but might getting the silver-purple one if the cable is significantly better.


The one that comes with the Purple/Silver cable is the better built cable in turn giving the ZSN the best amazing sound possible providing better presence of details throughout the whole range!






For the Cyan/Black and Black model you can choose to do a separate purchase on a 25 core strand, Clear/Silver cable, which by default the Purple/Silver one comes only with the light-copper 25 core strand style. They both give the same similar affect, which is a balanced sound signature! As you can see below, it is explained in one of their adds...





Link...
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-high-purity-oxygen/1358152_32947613528.html?


Hope this helps...



-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

...Oh? Forgot to mention that here in China the Purple/Silver ZSN cost more due to the thicker and better core cable that it comes with.


----------



## Zerohour88

Bartig said:


> I'm sorry to be that guy. I think I'll be the first one to criticise the ZSN. I think KZ still hasn't mastered the finetuning of the upper mids. Female vocals sound upfront, but can also sound so blown up they lose their natural tonality. They can even sound a bit tinny.
> 
> Cymbals too can be a bit off. Try Team from Lorde for example. A dark, sweet sounding song but the cymbals (sorry, actually slaps here!) sound very loud, even piercing on the ZSN.
> 
> ...



I for one (and probably many others) don't mind critical opinions like this, grounds the thread a little and keep the expectations in check.

Though I am curious, in your opinion, which of the sub $20 offerings around chi-fi that can beat the ZSN in terms of performance (disregard the build quality part a bit, since I don't mind that much, I keep IEMs in a case when not in use)


----------



## CoiL

Can`t wait for my Cyan ZSN paired with Purple version copper cable. If Bartig like it much, then probably I do too ;P


----------



## Bartig

Zerohour88 said:


> I for one (and probably many others) don't mind critical opinions like this, grounds the thread a little and keep the expectations in check.
> 
> Though I am curious, in your opinion, which of the sub $20 offerings around chi-fi that can beat the ZSN in terms of performance (disregard the build quality part a bit, since I don't mind that much, I keep IEMs in a case when not in use)


As of this moment, after about two hours of listening, this is pretty much top notch. But as said, I won't go in details until I listened to it more.

And thanks.


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 28, 2018)

I've been listening to the ZSN for an average of 6-8 hours every day since it arrived. Well, I encountered my namesake a while ago.

The original CD FLAC of Rebecca Pidgeon's sublime _The Raven_ was playing from the Cayin N3 (low-gain, vol. level 56, wide-bore silicone tips) and when _Spanish Harlem_ started there it was. Admittedly this extraordinary track, with all the S and T consonants in the lyrics, is inherently sibilant, albeit just so. As is natural human speech, of course, when these same consonants are aspirated in a particular manner.

Curious, I connected the N3 to the Topping NX4 (line-out) then the ZSN to the NX4 (low-gain) and played _Spanish Harlem_ again. Oh my! At around 10 o'clock of the volume pot my namesake sort of melted into Rebecca Pidgeon's voice and disappeared.

My headache's gone. I'm happy.


----------



## CoiL

SybilLance said:


> I've been listening to the ZSN for an average of 6-8 hours every day since it arrived. Well, I encountered my namesake a while ago.
> 
> The original CD FLAC of Rebecca Pidgeon's sublime _The Raven_ was playing from the Cayin N3 (low-gain, vol. level 56, wide-bore silicone tips) and when _Spanish Harlem_ started there it was. Admittedly this extraordinary track, with all the S and T consonants in the lyrics, is inherently sibilant, albeit just so. As is natural human speech, of course, when these same consonants are aspirated in a particular manner.
> 
> ...



So, ZSN benefits from amping - "wakes up" the dynamic driver, balances out BA or dynamic upper mids/lower highs?


----------



## Noteblue

Really satisfied with ZSN, excellent purchase, crisp sound and beautiful to look at, very comfortable.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Got my BT10's in earlier today and (fortunately) they are in phase. Gave them a full charge before pairing, they are full volume on the BT10 and average about 45-50% on my phone. Currently been playing non-stop for approx. 4hr 15mins.
> 
> 
> Update: low battery warning finally hit. 3:45pm-11:01pm 7hrs 16mins.



I’m glad to hear yours arrived with correct phase wiring.

Yeah, I forgot to update my testing. I pretty consistently get 6.5-7.5 hours now, from fully charged to fully drained. I did all my testing at normal listening levels, which depending on the IEM ranges from 30%-5”% volume.

I’m quite happy with the BT10 overall, assuming it arrives in-phase. I didn’t mind resoldering mine, but I know this will be a problem for some folks without soldering tools/skills.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> I for one (and probably many others) don't mind critical opinions like this, grounds the thread a little and keep the expectations in check.
> 
> Though I am curious, in your opinion, which of the sub $20 offerings around chi-fi that can beat the ZSN in terms of performance (disregard the build quality part a bit, since I don't mind that much, I keep IEMs in a case when not in use)



Sub $20? Nothing that I’ve ever heard.

Maybe in the future. I mean, look at what $20 got us 3 years ago, compared to what $12 gets us today.

Look at braided cables - what used to be only on $1k IEMs years ago seem to be the norm on today’s budget ChiFi.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 28, 2018)

If 100 people buy an IEM, and 99 of them love it and rave about how awesome it is, and only one person feels its just ok, then its not a hype train people.

I am a little shocked  ZSN is as loved as it is though. Its overall presentation is "in your face" and pretty aggressive. Very energetic. its tight fast bass, clean mids and bright treble make it an all genre encompassing IEM. I listen to just about every genre of music that exist. I love the fact that these IEMs don't control what I listen too. Everything I have thrown at them sounds good to me, but its aggressive nature and how people are receiving it does have me a little surprised.

I spent the day yesterday with Uiisii CM5. A Legend status IEM that everyone should own IMO. While the CM5 sounds great throughout the entire freq, its presentation is smooth and laidback. This sort of character dictates what I listen too. I don't find it particularly fun to listen to Opeth with smooth and laidback IEMs. I do however find that Reggae, Dub, Boom Bap Hip Hop, Jazz, R&B and Soul sounds better with a smooth presentation. While CM5 is a better choice for me for the above mentioned genres, ZSN still sounds great playing them too. Throw in the fact that ZSN gives me complete musical freedom, makes it a daily driver for me.  Other IEMs may do some things better, but overall ZSN is a remarkable accomplishment at $14.

AS10, BA10 and ZSN. KZ is coming hard right now. High hopes for ZS7.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> I am a little shocked ZSN is as loved as it is though. Its overall presentation is "in your face" and pretty aggressive. Very energetic. its tight fast bass, clean mids and bright treble make it an all genre encompassing IEM. I listen to just about every genre of music that exist. I love the fact that these IEMs don't control what I listen too. Everything I have thrown at them sounds good to me, but its aggressive nature and how people are receiving it does have me a little surprised.



Maybe I do not find the ZSN agressive because I never ever listen at high volume levels.  With speakers I will now and again but never with something stuck into my ear.  I want to still enjoy music when I am 95!


----------



## Zerohour88 (Nov 28, 2018)

Slater said:


> Sub $20? Nothing that I’ve ever heard.
> 
> Maybe in the future. I mean, look at what $20 got us 3 years ago, compared to what $12 gets us today.
> 
> Look at braided cables - what used to be only on $1k IEMs years ago seem to be the norm on today’s budget ChiFi.



I'm actually quite excited on the $20 range after ZSN released just so I can slowly bait more friends/people into chi-fi. Right now the ZSN is no brainer (we can get it for like $12 here too), but another choice that offers a different sig would be pretty great for competition and variety.

ZSN is just so easy to recommend due to the complete package (good SQ and great build quality).

I'm still waiting on the supposed ZS7 (that solid blue color just tickles me fancy), but more excited for the AS06 (3BA per side instead of 5 should make tuning it simpler and showcase the quality of their current BA tech).

their official site was never actually useful, but it was always up. Seems they realized its pointless and just let it die

http://www.kzacoustics.com/


----------



## blur.png

my zsn hasnt arrived yet im hyped for the as06 and even more for the zs7 though it looks like a polaris rip off, i dont mind it since i like campfire design anyway


----------



## randomnin

SybilLance said:


> Could it be...Dare I say KZ—and for that matter most earphone manufacturers—are using the published Harman preference curve for in-ears as reference then fine-tuning for a unique finished signature from that base sound? Those graphs all look remarkably similar and familiar, the ZSN's included.
> 
> Was drafting a document last night but then got sidetracked because I wanted to find out for myself about Dr. Olive's research. Browser tabs galore. Expected a nosebleed too but instead woke up bleary-eyed and frantically chasing a morning deadline. And the headache is sadistic.


Of course, there's a statistically most popular signature and it's not at all strange that graphs look alike, especially ones of the same manufacturer's gear. But I still wanted to specifically argue that ZSN, ES4 and ZS10 have the same 10mm DD tuned the same. That's how identical parts of the graphs I pointed out are, not to mention that that's the hypothesis that can raise more hell and discrepancies and polarization and stuff, which is always fun.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> Could it be...Dare I say KZ—and for that matter most earphone manufacturers—are using the published Harman preference curve for in-ears as reference then fine-tuning for a unique finished signature from that base sound? Those graphs all look remarkably similar and familiar, the ZSN's included.


That's a brilliant idea since it makes the idea of creating a new IEM much easier. Hopefully someone scientifically inclined here can look into this.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

randomnin said:


> But I still wanted to specifically argue that ZSN, ES4 and ZS10 have the same 10mm DD tuned the same. That's how identical parts of the graphs I pointed out are,


Can't someone do a side-by-side listening comparison or I know, you probably have to go by graphs and stuff?

What does this mean either way, if true, that someone who bought the ZS10 got ripped off?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> They’re no longer going to carry the ED16 as well (no one is). Once the ED16 are gone, they’re gone forever.


My comment was, "I've been told they (Penon Audio) will no longer carry the AS10. I wonder why?"

I'm confused by your response?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Can't someone do a side-by-side listening comparison or I know, you probably have to go by graphs and stuff?
> 
> What does this mean either way, if true, that someone who bought the ZS10 got ripped off?


I have all 3. All 3 are differant. Some similarities exist between es4 and zs10, but neither compare to ZSN.  At work,  so cant spend time further explaining.  Will later though.


----------



## Slater (Nov 28, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> My comment was, "I've been told they (Penon Audio) will no longer carry the AS10. I wonder why?"
> 
> I'm confused by your response?



I was simply adding to your comment, not answering it. Sorry for the confusion.

I don't know why they aren't going to carry the AS10.

However, I find it interesting that Penon is also currently blowing out the ED16 and SPC braided cable at or below cost, just like they recently blew out the AS10 below cost.

I agree there must be some reason for it. For the ED16, we know the reason - KZ isn't making it anymore. I was implying that it could be possible that maybe the same is true of the AS10, because why else would they be getting rid of their remaining stock so cheap?

Maybe Penon won't be carrying ANY KZ products. Or maybe there's something else going on that we don't know yet.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> I was simply adding to your comment, not answering it. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> I don't know why they aren't going to carry the AS10.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't be surprised if Penon decided to stop carrying KZ's product. Judging from how much the prices vary according to market and how ridiculously ubiquitous KZ re-sellers are, they don't really have any incentive to do so. Plus people usually go to Penon for the ease of purchase and great support, so them supporting a product/brand that is prone to QC issues (relatively, of course) and probably has small margins seems counter-productive. All of this is just wild conjecture on my part, a.k.a me talking out of my bum.

It might just be production issues and Penon just didn't get any in stock.


----------



## Podster

SybilLance said:


> I've been listening to the ZSN for an average of 6-8 hours every day since it arrived. Well, I encountered my namesake a while ago.
> 
> The original CD FLAC of Rebecca Pidgeon's sublime _The Raven_ was playing from the Cayin N3 (low-gain, vol. level 56, wide-bore silicone tips) and when _Spanish Harlem_ started there it was. Admittedly this extraordinary track, with all the S and T consonants in the lyrics, is inherently sibilant, albeit just so. As is natural human speech, of course, when these same consonants are aspirated in a particular manner.
> 
> ...



Well as a Topping fan myself (NX1/NX1s/NX2 & 4) I have found the same, I had a member shoot me down when they saw I had my NX1s attached to my Colorfly C3 saying it was not a good impedance match but just because it takes all the volume out of the C3 it does clean up my signal on almost all my iem's! Sure the C3 can drive the snot out of all my iem's but it also has a higher noise floor for me (for me may be the key here) and when I run the C3 signal thru my NX1s it just sound better, clean and pure. Of course with anything as subjective as what each of us hears at any given time on any given setup YMMV

When I say I've tried this setup with a variety of iem's let's just say..................................




 


 


 

 

 

 


 

And since we are in the KZ thread


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> I agree there must be some reason for it. For the ED16, we know the reason - KZ isn't making it anymore. I was implying that it could be possible that maybe the same is true of the AS10, because why else would they be getting rid of their remaining stock so cheap?
> 
> Maybe Penon won't be carrying ANY KZ products. Or maybe there's something else going on that we don't know yet.


I think Penon canceled my AS10 purchase when it was $33 because they'd be losing money. I bought it when it was in stock and then they turned around and said it wasn't. I'm pretty sure you can't order a product on their website if it isn't in stock.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Well as a Topping fan myself (NX1/NX1s/NX2 & 4) I have found the same, I had a member shoot me down when they saw I had my NX1s attached to my Colorfly C3 saying it was not a good impedance match but just because it takes all the volume out of the C3 it does clean up my signal on almost all my iem's! Sure the C3 can drive the snot out of all my iem's but it also has a higher noise floor for me (for me may be the key here) and when I run the C3 signal thru my NX1s it just sound better, clean and pure. Of course with anything as subjective as what each of us hears at any given time on any given setup YMMV
> 
> When I say I've tried this setup with a variety of iem's let's just say..................................
> 
> ...



Meh, I say if it works for you who cares what anyone else thinks. As I tell my teenager all the time “_opinions are like ***holes, everybody’s got one.”_


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think Penon canceled my AS10 purchase when it was $33 because they'd be losing money. I bought it when it was in stock and then they turned around and said it wasn't. I'm pretty sure you can't order a product on their website if it isn't in stock.



So I wonder if anyone actually got the $33 price, or if they pulled that trick to others? Maybe they were just using it to drive traffic to their site in the midst of “Black friday fever”?

Some big retailers do it; only having 1 TV in stock at some ridiculous $99 price. And who knows if they even sell that 1. They could just tell everyone “that one is out of stock, but we have these other nice ones over here for $500”.


----------



## alex5908

Hello everybody,
Can anybody compare KZ ZSA and AS10? Which is bassier? Other frequencies and specs are of interest too. I am reluctant to buy both.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Meh, I say if it works for you who cares what anyone else thinks. As I tell my teenager all the time “_opinions are like ***holes, everybody’s got one.”_



Ain't it the truth, I've often thought about buying the esoteric/TOTL stuff but I personally enjoy the ride and believe me I've had some very magical audio moments with entire rigs costing me less than $500 and far less than some single pairs of iem's from those who are far more proud of their stuff than I am impressed There I said it and so glad I said it in here (KZ Thread) than in the "Portable Rig" thread as I could see/feel the "Tiny Daggers" flying my way now LOL

I've said it before and I'll say it again for my old ears the Cayin N3 with a pair of BGVP DMG's (shopped out can be had for <$200) might just be the best bargain in portable music today now mind you this is just some old fools opinion but seriously it would be better listening than 99.9% of the planet's population ever gets to hearNow keep in mind I'm just talking me and my old ears but if one considers ROI/Diminishing returns I'm not sure I could ever justify the additional $9800.00 one would pay to have the Ultimate Wizard's, Stainless Steel AK380 as well as Esoteric cables on them over the N3/DMG's but of course you would have some serious chops and bragging rights galore Not to dis those who have unlimited funds but one would hope even they might consider the return on investment especially if they are the type who pull an "Indiana Jones" and "Choose Wisely"


----------



## voicemaster

alex5908 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Can anybody compare KZ ZSA and AS10? Which is bassier? Other frequencies and specs are of interest too. I am reluctant to buy both.



Why not the ZSN?


----------



## durwood

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think Penon canceled my AS10 purchase when it was $33 because they'd be losing money. I bought it when it was in stock and then they turned around and said it wasn't. I'm pretty sure you can't order a product on their website if it isn't in stock.



I ordered one from them and it said it shipped. Gearbest has or had them at 40 the other day with a coupon code.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 29, 2018)

alex5908 said:


> Hello everybody,
> Can anybody compare KZ ZSA and AS10? Which is bassier? Other frequencies and specs are of interest too. I am reluctant to buy both.



The BA10 and AS10 have very similar bass. My ZSA has more bass quantity than my BA10 but the ZSA bass is definitely not as tight as the BA10's.

Reportedly, the AS10 has slightly more of a mid-bass hump; I don't hear a mid-bass hump in the BA10. 

In short, if the AS10 bass is anything like the BA10 bass then it is fantastically quick and clean with unquestionable authority when called for and unquestionably tame when not.

Mind you the ZSA, despite its coloration, is still a pleasurable $20 in-ear but the general consensus is that the ZSA appears to have been superseded by the ZSN.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsa.23180/

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-as10.23246/

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/



alex5908 said:


> I am reluctant to buy both.




What in-ears or headphones do you enjoy most? What sound signature are you specifically 
after?



Podster said:


> I personally enjoy the ride and believe me I've had some very magical audio moments with entire rigs costing me less than $500 and far less than some single pairs of iem's from those who are far more proud of their stuff than I am impressed There I said it....



All I can say, Pod, is that I've got all my bases covered (ZS6 = analytical pleasure, BA10 = laid-back detail and ZSR = my best outdoors IEM) totaling less than $200, although...



Podster said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again for my old ears the Cayin N3 with a pair of BGVP DMG's (shopped out can be had for <$200) might just be the best bargain in portable music today now mind you this is just some old fools opinion but seriously it would be better listening than 99.9% of the planet's population ever gets to hear



...those BGVP DMG's seem like they'd be right up my alley. That said, the BQEYZ seem to have redirected my attention given the price-to-value equation.




 

By the way, great photos of your gear.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

durwood said:


> I ordered one from them and it said it shipped. Gearbest has or had them at 40 the other day with a coupon code.


I got my AS10 for $44 from the KZ Global Store but the sale is over.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Slater said:


> So I wonder if anyone actually got the $33 price, or if they pulled that trick to others? Maybe they were just using it to drive traffic to their site in the midst of “Black friday fever”? .



It worked for me, I' ve got one green for 33$ !


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 28, 2018)

Slater said:


> So I wonder if anyone actually got the $33 price, or if they pulled that trick to others? Maybe they were just using it to drive traffic to their site in the midst of “Black friday fever”?.


Here is what Penon said to me, "we are clear KZ inventory now , so sell it at 50% off , which is a loss , and we won’t get it in stock any more ."

I'm not sure how they can clear their inventory when I bought one before they even sold out? I'm super confused.

Either way, I went back to my old ways instead of buying the Cyan color like Penon was selling and bought the Black AS10 from KZ Global, which is the same color as all my KZ IEM's (except for two). Lol


----------



## Slater (Nov 28, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Here is what Penon said to me, "we are clear KZ inventory now , so sell it at 50% off , which is a loss , and we won’t get it in stock any more ."
> 
> I'm not sure how they can clear their inventory when I bought one before they even sold out? I'm super confused.
> 
> Either way, I went back to my old ways instead of buying the Cyan color like Penon was selling I bought the Black AS10 from KZ Global, which is the same color as all my KZ IEM's (except for two). Lol



Gotcha. It sounds like they’re done with KZs, which are pretty competitive/cut throat.

I bought 4 of the flat braided cables. The price was too good to pass up!

They’re actually my favorite KZ upgrade cable once the ear wire is removed and the cable is dyed black


----------



## Bartig (Nov 28, 2018)

Wow. I'm comparing the ZSN with my current signature top tier and it's now I'm realizing... It's 95% the same earphone!

The ZSN bass and mids are a tad more emphasized, whether the other sounds a little, just a little bit smoother.

But it's really so minimal - never heard two IEMs that are so much alike. They're basically the same. Compared in four genres now with an iPhone X and Spotify Premium as source, and counting.

So yeah, I do NOT regret having the pink-silver ZSN on order too. So much love for these.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 28, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Wow. I'm comparing the ZSN with my current signature top tier and it's now I'm realizing... It's 95% the same earphone!
> 
> But it's really so minimal - never heard two IEMs that are so much alike. They're basically the same. Compared in four genres now with an iPhone X and Spotify Premium as source, and counting.
> 
> So yeah, I do NOT regret having the pink-silver ZSN on order too. So much love for these.



How much is the top tier worth you're talking about? I'm assuming it's not a KZ?

You're making me feel dumb for just buying the ZS10 and AS10. I already have 2 ZSN's coming.

What I'm saying is, you better not be lying mister.


----------



## Conest

Ok so i partly understand what Burn in is..
But at what volume should i play pink noise or the others ?
Links are appreciated (so i can know more about all this)


----------



## Bartig

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How much is the top tier worth you're talking about? I'm assuming it's not a KZ?
> 
> You're making me feel dumb for just buying the ZS10 and AS10. I already have 2 ZSN's coming.
> 
> What I'm saying is, you better not be lying mister.


About as expensive as the AS10 during a sale. Well, I guess you could have skipped the zs10 in hindsight. Or in hindsight... I never liked them due to the blown up upper mids.


----------



## mochill

Conest said:


> Ok so i partly understand what Burn in is..
> But at what volume should i play pink noise or the others ?
> Links are appreciated (so i can know more about all this)


Use music with heavy bass on full blast from your phone.


----------



## Conest

mochill said:


> Use music with heavy bass on full blast from your phone.


Alright.. thanks
Anything else ? And for how long ?
Generally..


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 28, 2018)

Conest said:


> Ok so i partly understand what Burn in is..
> But at what volume should i play pink noise or the others ?
> Links are appreciated (so i can know more about all this)



This is good to work the driver in your iem or headphone. Or to clean up your ears


----------



## mochill

Conest said:


> Alright.. thanks
> Anything else ? And for how long ?
> Generally..


200hrs minimum


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Bartig said:


> About as expensive as the AS10 during a sale. Well, I guess you could have skipped the zs10 in hindsight. Or in hindsight... I never liked them due to the blown up upper mids.


I've read a few bad reviews of some of the IEMs in your sig so I take your opinion with respect but with a grain of salt as well. 

I guess I'll know how I feel after I get them since I'm a newbie.


----------



## voicemaster

Conest said:


> Alright.. thanks
> Anything else ? And for how long ?
> Generally..



I normaly just use the iem or headphone that I just bought and occasionally I leave them playing at a slight bit higher volume when I am going out or not using them.


----------



## Conest (Nov 28, 2018)

mochill said:


> 200hrs minimum


Woah....


----------



## Bartig (Nov 28, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've read a few bad reviews of some of the IEMs in your sig so I take your opinion with respect but with a grain of salt as well.
> 
> I guess I'll know how I feel after I get them since I'm a newbie.


Of course! So many people, so many preferred sound signatures.

It's like with cars. A Toyota Corolla might technically be a way better car than a Ford Focus - but driving (especially cornering) in a Focus puts a smile on my face. That will always win for me over something that is 'considered' better technically.


----------



## toddy0191

Slater said:


> Meh, I say if it works for you who cares what anyone else thinks. As I tell my teenager all the time “_opinions are like ***holes, everybody’s got one.”_



Don't forget the "and most of them stink" part!


----------



## Conest

voicemaster said:


> I normaly just use the iem or headphone that I just bought and occasionally I leave them playing at a slight bit higher volume when I am going out or not using them.


Ohh.. thanks for the tip master..


----------



## Slater (Nov 28, 2018)

mochill said:


> Use music with heavy bass on full blast from your phone.





Conest said:


> Alright.. thanks
> Anything else ? And for how long ?
> Generally..



Don’t do full volume! You can burn out and destroy BA drivers this way.

Use NORMAL LISTENING VOLUME. Always.

Yiu wouldn’t cook food at twice the normal temperature. It doesn’t cook the food any better or faster; it just burns the food.

You cook food at normal temperature, you burn in audio gear at normal volume.

There’s a free app for your phone from 1More. It does a great job of proper burn in, including rest periods for the drivers. The process is totally automated. Just set your volume to normal listening levels, and the app does the rest.

Or some people just use a playlist of a variety of music, on repeat. Again, just set the volume at normal listening levels, and use a playlist on repeat.


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> I normaly just use the iem or headphone that I just bought and occasionally I leave them playing at a slight bit higher volume when I am going out or not using them.



Same here. Not really sure if I believe in burn in. Brain burn in is a different story. You definitely get used to a certain headphones signature. Imo, if you have to wait and see if you don't like the sound within a couple of hours, it's probably not for you. Not saying you can't get used to a certain sound but it's not gonna be a huge difference down the road.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Don’t do full volume! You can burn out and destroy BA drivers this way.
> 
> Use NORMAL LISTENING VOLUME. Always.
> 
> I wouldn’t cook food at twice the normal temperature. It does cook the food any better or faster; it just burns the food. You cook food at normal temperature, you burn in audio gear at normal volume.



Oh course! That's just crazy. BAs may have a slight burn in period compared to DD. It's certainly not at full volume for BAs or DD. You don't want to literally "burn" them. I busted alot of speakers and subs in my teens that way.


----------



## Conest

Slater said:


> Don’t do full volume! You can burn out the BA drivers this way.
> 
> Use NORMAL LISTENING VOLUME. Always.
> 
> I wouldn’t cook food at twice the normal temperature. It does cook the food any better or faster; it just burns the food. You cook food at normal temperature, you burn in audio gear at normal volume.


Wow.. this is maybe the best forum I've ever been a part of..
Thanks for the help everyone..


----------



## Slater

Conest said:


> Wow.. this is maybe the best forum I've ever been a part of..
> Thanks for the help everyone..
> 
> This is got to be the best forum I've ever been a part of...
> Thanks for being helpful and kind everyone..



You’re welcome. Everyone around here is helpful. This place is indeed great.

You’re welcome. 
Everyone around here is helpful. This place is indeed great.


----------



## voicemaster

sino8r said:


> Same here. Not really sure if I believe in burn in. Brain burn in is a different story. You definitely get used to a certain headphones signature. Imo, if you have to wait and see if you don't like the sound within a couple of hours, it's probably not for you. Not saying you can't get used to a certain sound but it's not gonna be a huge difference down the road.



I believe in both brain and driver burn in because I have some iems that sound so freaking sibilance when I got them and after I let them play with pink noise and bass heavy music, it started to smoothen out. Same thing with bass. I always burn in my Dynamic Driver iems and headphones.


----------



## sino8r

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How much is the top tier worth you're talking about? I'm assuming it's not a KZ?
> 
> You're making me feel dumb for just buying the ZS10 and AS10. I already have 2 ZSN's coming.
> 
> What I'm saying is, you better not be lying mister.



Imo, the only real difference between the AS10 and ZSN is the sound stage. They both sound full, bassy, and way better than their price. I doubt you'll regret it! On the other hand, my ZS10 mostly collects dust. It's good for video though, that's about it.


----------



## voicemaster

sino8r said:


> Imo, the only real difference between the AS10 and ZSN is the sound stage. They both sound full, bassy, and way better than their price. I doubt you'll regret it! On the other hand, my ZS10 mostly collects dust. It's good for video though, that's about it.



I find ZSN is excellent for movies. Them bass can get quite addicting.
AS10 bass the same as ZSN with DD?


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> I believe in both brain and driver burn in because I have some iems that sound so freaking sibilance when I got them and after I let them play with pink noise and bass heavy music, it started to smoothen out. Same thing with bass. I always burn in my Dynamic Driver iems and headphones.



Hey, it may be true. It can't hurt anything to try. Many things need to break in on various things. Cars, shoes, rackets, all things leather. In the Olds days as a IT tech, many of the guys used to say computers and newly flashed OS on phones needed a break in period. To be honest, I've gotten so used to my bassier iems that I foam mod most of the BAs from KZ.


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> You’re welcome. Everyone around here is helpful. This place is indeed great.
> 
> You’re welcome.
> Everyone around here is helpful. This place is indeed great.



Repeat after me.......


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> I find ZSN is excellent for movies. Them bass can get quite addicting.
> AS10 bass the same as ZSN with DD?



I'd say it's really close. Maybe slightly less but it makes up for it in the lower mids. Even the non Knowles BAs have gotten good. I can't tell much a difference between the AS10 and the Fiio FH5. The Fiio is 250 US dollars and has all Knowles BAs. The FH5 maybe be slightly cleaner sounding but not by much at all.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> You’re welcome. Everyone around here is helpful. This place is indeed great.
> 
> You’re welcome.
> Everyone around here is helpful. This place is indeed great.



I agree, it's downright pleasant on this forum. The internet can be really nasty and not in a fun way. Some of my other favorite forums make me nervous sometimes for the new guys. Can be vicious!


----------



## Slater

PSA:

I’m seeing some reports on Aliexpress that some of the new KZ 8-core dual-color cables are wired out of phase.

So as usual, always check your cables and IEMs for phase issues as soon as you receive them.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Today was take your friendly TRN V20 to work day. Another legend in the game. A 1+1 hybrid like the ZSN, but I think its main KZ competitor is the ZSA. Both the V20 and the ZSA are V shape, with the V20's bass being a little tighter and a bit faster. Both have pretty good impact and slam, with ZSA being a bit bigger and a bit looser.  On the other end of the spectrum, I think the ZSA has a much more bright and vibrant treble. There is a bit more sparkle and detail retrieval is better on the ZSA then the V20, however for me personally the ZSA can be fatiguing if listening too long. For this reason I prefer V20. 
As far as the mids go. ZSA sounds much more scooped then V20 due to the bass being bigger and the treble being brighter. It also has a more energetic presentation that makes things sound livelier. In a lot of ways I can see similarities between how ZSA and ZSN are tuned. Their seems to be a definite progression here. 

Anyways just posting thoughts that nobody asked for. Would like to get more involved in learning how to write down and convey my thoughts with more detail in regards to headfi. So bear with me.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 28, 2018)

delete


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> PSA:
> 
> I’m seeing some reports on Aliexpress that some of the new KZ 8-core dual-color cables are wired out of phase.
> 
> So as usual, always check your cables and IEMs for phase issues as soon as you receive them.


Dual color meaning the Copper/Silver mix cables?

How do we tell if it's out of phase? I'm not even sure what that means...


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Dual color meaning the Copper/Silver mix cables?
> 
> How do we tell if it's out of phase? I'm not even sure what that means...


+1


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> delete


Too late... Lol


----------



## mbwilson111

Conest said:


> Too late... Lol



I saw it too


----------



## Slater (Nov 28, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Dual color meaning the Copper/Silver mix cables?
> 
> How do we tell if it's out of phase? I'm not even sure what that means...



Yes, the newest copper/silver 8-braided cables. The ones that look similar to the new TRN cables (although they are different from one another).


 

Out of phase means 1 driver’s + and - is wired opposite the other driver. So the drivers are basically moving in opposite phase to one another. Like if you had a 4WD car, but the front wheels were going forward and the rear wheels were going reverse. It wouldn’t drive properly.

Also, I’m not saying they’re bad. Being wired out of phase is a QC thing, and can (and does) happen to all manufacturers from time to time. The key is testing all cables/headphones ASAP so you can get a refund/exchange right away.

You should also always test that the channels are correct (and not switched).

There’s a few ways to test it:

1. There’s tests on audiocheck.net

https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php

2. This is a great test:



Spoiler: Check check 1, 2








3. I created my own MP3 file that can be loaded onto any phone of DAP. Like the video I linked in #2, it tests the channels AND phase in one swoop. I also made matching cover art, which visually follows along with the music for easy identification as to what it’s testing. I don’t have anywhere to post it, but anyone interested can PM me and I’ll send it to you.

When it’s out of phase, it sounds like the music is “outside” of your head, like there’s a speaker on each side of your ear, about 10 feet away. It just doesn’t sound right. When it’s in phase, music sounds like it’s “in” your head, or like there’s a speaker on each side of your ear about 1” away. You’ll know the difference when you hear it.


----------



## jant71

Enough about KZ cables and back to what's really important...


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 28, 2018)

randomnin said:


> Of course, there's a statistically most popular signature and it's not at all strange that graphs look alike, especially ones of the same manufacturer's gear. But I still wanted to specifically argue that ZSN, ES4 and ZS10 have the same 10mm DD tuned the same. That's how identical parts of the graphs I pointed out are, not to mention that that's the hypothesis that can raise more hell and discrepancies and polarization and stuff, which is always fun.



Well according to KZ, the ZS10 is a in house developed driver.



The KZ ES4 has a graphene film.



And the ZSN has a titanium film.


Sound wise. ZS10 has a some what soft bass that extends down pretty good, but lacks impact. Its also a bit loose and bleeds a bit. Good for almost anything. 

ES4 is big and boomy. Slow and lumbering. Good slam and good impact. Bass quality not great, but who needs great for bass heavy genres? Really fun for Reggae Dancehall, Trap, Dubstep, ect. Overall Signature to me is a warm and smooth L shape.

ZSN digs deep and is tight and fast. Good response and bass details are awesome. Good impact and decent slam. Almost no bleed. Very addictive. I would describe this sound sig as a slightly warm above neutral W shape due to its elevated bass, forward mids and extended bright treble. I know the graph doesn't show that, but that's how I hear it. Hehe.


----------



## SyCoTiM

Just got my ZSN's in. The are excellent powered off of my S8+. They even stand up to the Sennheiser H58x in some respects. The only obvious differences are the more closed in presentation, less airy, and less crisp. But, I enjoy these a bit more when I need some warmth and bass for genres such as Rap and Jazz.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Well according to KZ, the ZS10 is a in house developed driver.
> 
> The KZ ES4 has a graphene film.
> 
> ...



While diaphragm material isn’t the only thing that determines a driver’s sound, I do prefer the speed and snappiness of titanium coated drivers. I can usually tell a positive difference on headphones and IEMs with titanium drivers. It provides a good balance of low weight and stiffness, that not many other materials have been able to match.

I have a chart somewhere that shows the different coatings as they pertain to driver diaphragms. I’ll post it if I find it.

DLC (diamond like coating) is supposed to be the holy grail titanium-killer for driver diaphragm coatings. I don’t have any DLC drivers yet, but I am looking forward to it when they become more common.


----------



## alex5908

DocHoliday said:


> What in-ears or headphones do you enjoy most? What sound signature are you specifically
> after?


I am a bass-head. To say "I don't like sibilants" means to say nothing.


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> So, ZSN benefits from amping - "wakes up" the dynamic driver, balances out BA or dynamic upper mids/lower highs?



Yes, the ZSN does seem to benefit from amping. That's what I observed yesterday. I'm testing further. 

Previously the ZSN was connected directly to the Cayin N3 as I thought the Cayin is more than enough. And the N3's warm character nicely pairs with the ZSN with wide-bore silicone eartips. I did notice that I had to up the volume level compared to say, the ED16. 

Vocal sibilance is an unpleasant tonal harshness that occurs with consonant syllables (like S, T, and Z), caused by disproportionate audio dynamics in upper midrange frequencies. An inherent characteristic of human speech, it can be found in recordings despite studio engineers' best efforts in suppressing it. 

It was surprising I no longer perceived it from Rebecca Pidgeon's voice when I added the Topping NX4 to the chain, half-expecting the sibilance to be reproduced even more. As an amplifier the NX4 is neutral and does not color the sound. It also has low output impedance, low distortion, very low noise and lots of dynamic headroom. Its numbers on these are markedly better than the Cayin's, a DAP. Perhaps that's why Spanish Harlem sounds so good, fuller with more body through the Topping. Spanish Harlem does sound glorious using the same DAP-Amp combo with the HiFiMAN HE-400i (actually my husband's but then anything he has is mine to use so...) so I'm quite familiar with this track's sonic qualities—the bass, the shaker, that voice. 

The ZSN may have something to do with it, too. 

On the other hand, it may just be expectation bias—my brain convincing me the ZSN will indeed sound better with a good amp.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 28, 2018)

Slater said:


> While diaphragm material isn’t the only thing that determines a driver’s sound, I do prefer the speed and snappiness of titanium coated drivers. I can usually tell a positive difference on headphones and IEMs with titanium drivers. It provides a good balance of low weight and stiffness, that not many other materials have been able to match.
> 
> I have a chart somewhere that shows the different coatings as they pertain to driver diaphragms. I’ll post it if I find it.
> 
> DLC (diamond like coating) is supposed to be the holy grail titanium-killer for driver diaphragm coatings. I don’t have any DLC drivers yet, but I am looking forward to it when they become more common.


Hmm... Would love to see the chart. Never even heard of DLC.


----------



## B9Scrambler

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hmm... Would love to see the chart. Never even heard of DLC.



Campfire uses it on some of their gear, like the Atlas; A.D.L.C. (Amorphous Diamond-Like Carbon)

https://campfireaudio.com/shop/atlas/


----------



## hakuzen

added some cables to the list of measured conductivity cables.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853
new kz 8 cores upgrade cable, and some others.

new kz copper+spc mixed.. got two cables (type A, and type B). resistance of the two materials used is quite different.
in A cable, one type is used for signals, and the other for ground (cold signals in balanced). in B cables, it happens the same.. but the types are reversed respect A cable!
(58) kz spc+copper 8c A(0.75) (silver+copper,oyde)...216 213 479 503 (diff wire for diff signals,random)
.......kz spc+copper 8c B(0.78) (silver+copper,oyde)...541 552 222 220 (diff wire for diff signals,random)
i don't know if they follow different pattern for A cables, and B cables, intended, or if it's pure random.
right ear guide in B cable was reversed molded for kz. used a hair dresser (my hot gun is still in transit) to remold it.
the mix of colors is great for light pink lovers.


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> added some cables to the list of measured conductivity cables.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853
> new kz 8 cores upgrade cable, and some others.
> 
> ...



I saw that mentioned in some Aliexpress reviews as well - in addition to some being wired out of phase, some cables have 1 ear molded backwards.

C’mon KZ - these are amateur mistakes!


----------



## pbui44

So far, almost all of the detachable-cabled Chi-Fi IEMs that I owned have stock sub-par cables (including, but not limited to, Brainwavz B400 and TFZ Secret Garden dual-DD), but KZ stock cables are the worst in build construction comfort, and fit-and-finish.  Yes, they work rather well, but that is really it.  Now, from what I am reading, other cables are better than KZ cables, even the taboo-company-name ones!  

With that said, KZ IEMs are amongst the best value-IEMs that you can buy.  Of course, you can get better sound quality, but you have to pay dearly.  The irony out of all this is that I have to thank Beats Electronics for selling chi-fi-manufactured products at very high prices.  I mean, paying extra for extra distortion is pretty crazy, but who is going to train all of those Chinese manufacturers on making audio equipment?


----------



## alex5908

voicemaster said:


> Why not the ZSN?


Are they good for a bass-head?


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


> So far, almost all of the detachable-cabled Chi-Fi IEMs that I owned have stock sub-par cables (including, but not limited to, Brainwavz B400 and TFZ Secret Garden dual-DD), but KZ stock cables are the worst in build construction comfort, and fit-and-finish.  Yes, they work rather well, but that is really it.  Now, from what I am reading, other cables are better than KZ cables, even the taboo-company-name ones!
> 
> With that said, KZ IEMs are amongst the best value-IEMs that you can buy.  Of course, you can get better sound quality, but you have to pay dearly.  The irony out of all this is that I have to thank Beats Electronics for selling chi-fi-manufactured products at very high prices.  I mean, paying extra for extra distortion is pretty crazy, but who is going to train all of those Chinese manufacturers on making audio equipment?



You want a stock cable that will knock your socks off, check out the ibasso IT01 cable. You won’t believe it comes on a $99 IEM. The cable alone should be $99!


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> I saw that mentioned in some Aliexpress reviews as well - in addition to some being wired out of phase, some cables have 1 ear molded backwards.
> 
> C’mon KZ - these are amateur mistakes!


i first thought it was out of phase when measuring, but then noticed it was ok, just molded backwards.
people should check this before returning back their unit, by checking plain and curved sides of the socket. they can remold the ear guide in a minute with a hair dresser.


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## 1clearhead (Nov 28, 2018)

Conest said:


> Ok so i partly understand what Burn in is..
> But at what volume should i play pink noise or the others ?
> Links are appreciated (so i can know more about all this)


You can play your favorite songs in a "loop" for many hours from your computer or any other audio source that provides looping songs to play over and over again. Giving it 30% of volume would be reasonable when not plugged in your ears, since the excursion of the diaphragm and BA armatures does extend more when is not sealed in your ears. If you'll be wearing them most of the time, then you can raise the volume even higher or to any of your desired position. *I would not suggest blasting them when you first receive them!* ...BA armatures are more delicate than their counterpart dynamic diaphragms and can get damaged at a continues high volume.

50 hours will give you an idea on how they're starting to settle down, peaks, harshness, sibilance, etc...

100 hours can give you the idea of what type of sound signature you bought into...

200 hours will determine if you finally like them, or not!


Hope this helps...



-Clear


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hmm... Would love to see the chart. Never even heard of DLC.


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> Yes, the ZSN does seem to benefit from amping. That's what I observed yesterday. I'm testing further.
> 
> Previously the ZSN was connected directly to the Cayin N3 as I thought the Cayin is more than enough. And the N3's warm character nicely pairs with the ZSN with wide-bore silicone eartips. I did notice that I had to up the volume level compared to say, the ED16.
> 
> ...


It sounds incredibly good when amped!


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> I saw that mentioned in some Aliexpress reviews as well - in addition to some being wired out of phase, some cables have 1 ear molded backwards.
> 
> C’mon KZ - these are amateur mistakes!



Even with MoonDrop Kanas Pro which is around $180 I got this problem too. :/


----------



## SybilLance

Podster said:


> Well as a Topping fan myself (NX1/NX1s/NX2 & 4) I have found the same, I had a member shoot me down when they saw I had my NX1s attached to my Colorfly C3 saying it was not a good impedance match but just because it takes all the volume out of the C3 it does clean up my signal on almost all my iem's! Sure the C3 can drive the snot out of all my iem's but it also has a higher noise floor for me (for me may be the key here) and when I run the C3 signal thru my NX1s it just sound better, clean and pure. Of course with anything as subjective as what each of us hears at any given time on any given setup YMMV
> 
> When I say I've tried this setup with a variety of iem's let's just say..................................



Indeed Topping products are very-well engineered and perform quite brilliantly. Each item is accompanied by complete specs, accurate graphs and certifications. Very reasonably priced, too. Tests and breakdowns by third parties like audiosciencereview.com confirm their top-notch technical design and also confirm the legitimacy of said specs and graphs. Topping has a steadily growing reputation and following despite the absence of flashy ads, marketing and all that. 



> Ain't it the truth, I've often thought about buying the esoteric/TOTL stuff but I personally enjoy the ride and believe me I've had some very magical audio moments with entire rigs costing me less than $500 and far less than some single pairs of iem's from those who are far more proud of their stuff than I am impressedThere I said it and so glad I said it in here (KZ Thread) than in the "Portable Rig" thread as I could see/feel the "Tiny Daggers" flying my way now LOL
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again for my old ears the Cayin N3 with a pair of BGVP DMG's (shopped out can be had for <$200) might just be the best bargain in portable music today now mind you this is just some old fools opinion but seriously it would be better listening than 99.9% of the planet's population ever gets to hearNow keep in mind I'm just talking me and my old ears but if one considers ROI/Diminishing returns I'm not sure I could ever justify the additional $9800.00 one would pay to have the Ultimate Wizard's, Stainless Steel AK380 as well as Esoteric cables on them over the N3/DMG's but of course you would have some serious chops and bragging rights galoreNot to dis those who have unlimited funds but one would hope even they might consider the return on investment especially if they are the type who pull an "Indiana Jones" and "Choose Wisely"



Hence why I have both the Cayin N3 and the Topping NX4 feeding my favorite KZ ZSN right now. My initial impressions amplified! 

Rudolph totally agrees while groovin' to Donald Fagen's blue chip I'll-never-get-tired-of-listening-album _The Nightfly_:


----------



## Podster

@SybilLance I C we are using the same IC as well Evwr since Topping rectified the EMI/RFI issue associated with the original NX1 they have steadily improved on each product and as sais offer great return on investment.


----------



## Luxed

hakuzen said:


> i first thought it was out of phase when measuring, but then noticed it was ok, just molded backwards.
> people should check this before returning back their unit, by checking plain and curved sides of the socket. they can remold the ear guide in a minute with a hair dresser.


I posted about that issue a few (a  lot actually) pages back. I received my copper/silver cable and didn't know if it was out of phase. But after some testing, I realized that it was just molded backwards so I couldn't get them to fit right. Not deal a deal breaker for me.

Still, about that cable, even though I love it, the fact that it is 8 core makes it feel clumsy compared to the ZSN 4 core cable. Because each wire is thinner.


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> Yes, the newest copper/silver 8-braided cables. The ones that look similar to the new TRN cables (although they are different from one another).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So that’s what it was. When I used the KZ Cable with my ZSN it sounded off and I came to the conclusion it was because the pins werent long enough (because of the ZSNs pin housing style)


I used the audio check tests and all the out of phase sound tests sounded like they were in phase and vice versa. Wonder how KZ will address this issue


----------



## Cruelhand Luke




----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I like the ZSN in the gray foam tips.


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> @SybilLance I C we are using the same IC as well Evwr since Topping rectified the EMI/RFI issue associated with the original NX1 they have steadily improved on each product and as sais offer great return on investment.



I C it too. 

Hoping my husband favorably responds  to the occasional subtle hints dropped his way about the new Topping NX3s.


----------



## voicemaster

alex5908 said:


> Are they good for a bass-head?



They are!


----------



## hydroid (Nov 29, 2018)

Received my cyan zsn yesterday and immediately played thru it the pink noise the whole night and I was pleasantly surprised how good it sounds. It's strange that when I A/B it against my IT01, i find the IT01 a bit boomy(not basshead level) compared to the zsn. Seems like I'm hearing the details and clarity of my Ath m50x (without being harsh or sibilant) on the zsn. It's just my opinion though and my sound preference leans towards brighter sound signature. I know the two iems has different drivers (1DD and 1 hybrid) but just sharing my initial impression and experience and must say that KZ has done a great job on the zsn.


----------



## ShakyJake (Nov 29, 2018)

Slater said:


> ....
> 
> Out of phase means 1 driver’s + and - is wired opposite the other driver. So the drivers are basically moving in opposite phase to one another. Like if you had a 4WD car, but the front wheels were going forward and the rear wheels were going reverse. It wouldn’t drive properly.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the handy link! And what do you know? My ZSN is wired out of phase. This is probably why I haven't been quite as happy with it as the rest of you. There was something "off" about the imaging. Unfortunately, it is not quite as easy to reverse one of the wires since the connector is angled, so I went back to one of my other "straight" KZ cables. Unfortunately it is one of IEMS that is wired out of phase, so getting a replacement "ZSN cable is not enough.

Damned KZ Quality Control....


----------



## SybilLance

hydroid said:


> Received my cyan zsn yesterday and immediately played thru it the pink noise the whole night and I was pleasantly surprised how good it sounds. It's strange that when I A/B it against my IT01, i find the IT01 a bit boomy(not basshead level) compared to the zsn. Seems like I'm hearing the details and clarity of my Ath m50x (without being harsh or sibilant) on the zsn. It's just my opinion though and my sound preference leans towards brighter sound signature. I know the two iems has different drivers (1DD and 1 hybrid) but just sharing my initial impression and experience and must say that KZ has done a great job on the zsn.



Glad you like the ZSN. Try a medium or wide-bore eartip and you might like it even better.


----------



## hydroid

SybilLance said:


> Glad you like the ZSN. Try a medium or wide-bore eartip and you might like it even better.



Always does  I usually pair medium wide bore tips on iems as I find narrow bore tips sounds bassy and muffled.


----------



## voicemaster

hydroid said:


> Received my cyan zsn yesterday and immediately played thru it the pink noise the whole night and I was pleasantly surprised how good it sounds. It's strange that when I A/B it against my IT01, i find the IT01 a bit boomy(not basshead level) compared to the zsn. Seems like I'm hearing the details and clarity of my Ath m50x (without being harsh or sibilant) on the zsn. It's just my opinion though and my sound preference leans towards brighter sound signature. I know the two iems has different drivers (1DD and 1 hybrid) but just sharing my initial impression and experience and must say that KZ has done a great job on the zsn.



That was my thought too when I compared the iT01 with ZSN.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> DLC (diamond like coating) is supposed to be the holy grail titanium-killer for driver diaphragm coatings. I don’t have any DLC drivers yet, but I am looking forward to it when they become more common.


Save up for IT01*S *instead buying IT01  They are supposed to be DLC as far as I know.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 29, 2018)

ShakyJake said:


> Thanks for the handy link! And what do you know? My ZSN is wired out of phase. This is probably why I haven't been quite as happy with it as the rest of you. There was something "off" about the imaging. Unfortunately, it is not quite as easy to reverse one of the wires since the connector is angled,
> 
> Damned KZ Quality Control....


You won the KZ lottery! One flawed IEM out of a million not! 

Maybe they have a prize for you?


----------



## CoiL

hydroid said:


> Received my cyan zsn yesterday and immediately played thru it the pink noise the whole night and I was pleasantly surprised how good it sounds. It's strange that when I A/B it against my IT01, i find the IT01 a bit boomy(not basshead level) compared to the zsn. Seems like I'm hearing the details and clarity of my Ath m50x (without being harsh or sibilant) on the zsn. It's just my opinion though and my sound preference leans towards brighter sound signature. I know the two iems has different drivers (1DD and 1 hybrid) but just sharing my initial impression and experience and must say that KZ has done a great job on the zsn.





voicemaster said:


> That was my thought too when I compared the iT01 with ZSN.


Just to get an idea about Your two input about IT01 vs. ZSN:
1) What tips are You using with IT01?
2) What is Your source gear and amping with both IEMs?
3) What tips are You using with ZSN?
4) How much playtime has Your IT01 had?

After about 150-200h playtime my IT01 didn`t sound slightly boomy (which I also thought at beginning) and ultra-wide-bore silicone tips improve sound noticeably.
If You still find IT01 somewhat "boomy", then I recommend littlebit amping (they can take a lot of power).

But it`s good to know that KZ has achieved such good sound for so little money (especially compared against IT01) ;P
I hope I get my 2 ZSN`s soon and hear what they can do against modded IT01.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 29, 2018)

Cruelhand Luke said:


>


Oh my god, stick that in my ears!


----------



## dondonut

Anyone has both the ZSN and the BQEYZ BQ3? I'm curious how people think they compare (though one is 5drivers and the other 2drivers).


----------



## hydroid

CoiL said:


> Just to get an idea about Your two input about IT01 vs. ZSN:
> 1) What tips are You using with IT01?
> 2) What is Your source gear and amping with both IEMs?
> 3) What tips are You using with ZSN?
> ...



Just to be clear.. ZSN won't replace the IT01 as one of my favorite iem. To answer your questions:
1) I'm using medium tennmak whirlwind wide bore tips on the IT01.
2) I don't use an amp or eq on my listening sessions with IT01. Played it currently with Ipod classic 5.5gen, Zishan Z1 with burson opamp, previously with Aune m1S and LG v20.
3) same tips with ZSN, always wide bore.
4) I had my IT01 for almost 8 months now and use it as my daily driver, therefore it had sufficient playtime I guess.

I never consider the IT01 as boomy/bassy since I got them to be honest. I really loved how good it sounds but when I listened to IT01 and ZSN side by side with same source and eartips, I find the IT01 slightly bassy but not sounding dark or muffled. Details are still there.

But I won't ever consider that ZSN is better than the IT01. I enjoyed them both in their own different ways.


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 29, 2018)

Been aware I knew little about certain stuff so started lurking and browsing around the Sound Science forum, all the while listening to Steely Dan (Cayin N3 line-out to Topping NX4 low-gain to KZ ZSN wide-bore generic foam tips). Read a post by PointyFox and saw his signature...and right then and there did a reverse Edward Everett Horton double-take.

OhMyDearMeGoodnessGraciousLandsakesAlive!

Tyll's back.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/and-im-up-for-air.893813

My apologies for an off-topic but I'm excited! I miss his voice at Innerfidelity. One of the reasons why I got hooked on audio and headgear.


----------



## Slater (Nov 29, 2018)

ShakyJake said:


> Thanks for the handy link! And what do you know? My ZSN is wired out of phase. This is probably why I haven't been quite as happy with it as the rest of you. There was something "off" about the imaging. Unfortunately, it is not quite as easy to reverse one of the wires since the connector is angled, so I went back to one of my other "straight" KZ cables. Unfortunately it is one of IEMS that is wired out of phase, so getting a replacement "ZSN cable is not enough.
> 
> Damned KZ Quality Control....



This can be fixed in theory. All you need is a pentalobe screwdriver bit for repairing Apple products. On ONE side, simply unscrew the back cover, unscrew the 2 screws holding the 2-pin plug, turn it around, and put everything back together. Should only take a few minutes.

I haven’t tested it myself yet, as I’m still waiting on my screwdriver bits to arrive. I’m going by the internal photos someone posted a week ago.


----------



## Conest

Fingers crossed for this Phase issue..


----------



## TLDRonin

Is this phasing issue a batch issue or do all these ne KZ copper/silver cables suffer from it?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

dondonut said:


> Anyone has both the ZSN and the BQEYZ BQ3? I'm curious how people think they compare (though one is 5drivers and the other 2drivers).



My BQ3 just shipped out yesterday so hopefully in about 10 days I will have both to compare.


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> Is this phasing issue a batch issue or do all these ne KZ copper/silver cables suffer from it?



I think it’s just a normal onesie-twosie QC issue, as the majority of reviews are positive.


----------



## TLDRonin

Slater said:


> I think it’s just a normal onesie-twosie QC issue, as the majority of reviews are positive.


I'm curious how many of those positive reviews were made by people who didn't notice anything different


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 29, 2018)

I just read a review on Aliexpress where a customer said TRN v80 ($25) is better than KZ BA10 ($75), the most expensive KZ right now. What do you guys think of this?

I found KZ's response to them amusing, "TRN who?"


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> I think it’s just a normal onesie-twosie QC issue, as the majority of reviews are positive.


Yeah, I think that I just "won" the KZ QC lottery. One bad apple...

Check for yourself. Play the tracks that @Slater posted a few pages back and listen carefully.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 29, 2018)

Should I cancel my ZS10 order? I already have ZSN and AS10 coming and own EDR1, ZS3, ZST, ES4, ED16, ED7 (I think)... etc.


----------



## ShakyJake (Nov 29, 2018)

Slater said:


> This can be fixed in theory. All you need is a pentalobe screwdriver bit for repairing Apple products. On ONE side, simply unscrew the back cover, unscrew the 2 screws holding the 2-pin plug, turn it around, and put everything back together. Should only take a few minutes.
> 
> I haven’t tested it myself yet, as I’m still waiting on my screwdriver bits to arrive. I’m going by the internal photos someone posted a week ago.



That is a crazy small and funny shaped screw head. I don't have the bit for it, so I am gaing to stick with my ghetto solution: An old ZS3 cable wih one side plugged in reversed. It has straigh-in connector, so it is easy to reverse one plug. I know that I am violating the instructions in your signature @Slater , since the connectors are "coded" 



Spoiler: Ghetto solution


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 29, 2018)

Finally got all my 3 ZSN's rounded up, which I only paid a mere $44 US dollars (306 RMB) for all.

This is my new posse! 

Cyan/Black - Purple/Silver - Black/Black


----------



## Leo-rume (Nov 29, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just read a review on Aliexpress where a customer said TRN v80 ($25) is better than KZ BA10 ($75), the most expensive KZ right now. What do you guys think of this?
> 
> I like KZ's response to them and found it amusing, "TRN who?"



Lol... Brilliant, and not for this first time too, here's their response to a furious Russian buyer who claimed he's had 200-300 rubles (3-5$) earphones at the "same level" as the ZSN.



Now I think of it, he/she most likely had an out of phase unit or........ Just partly deaf


----------



## Slater

TLDRonin said:


> I'm curious how many of those positive reviews were made by people who didn't notice anything different



Good point.


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> That is a crazy small and funny shaped screw head. I don't have the bit for it, so I am gaing to stick with my ghetto solution: An old ZS3 cable wih one side plugged in reversed. It has straigh-in connector, so it is easy to reverse one plug. I know that I am violating the instructions in your signature @Slater , since the connectiors are "coded"
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ghetto solution



Yeah, it's a 5-sided security screw called a Pentalobe. It's similar to a 6-sided Torx screw, except with 5 points instead of 6.

Thanks Apple...


----------



## HungryPanda

My ZSN's arrived yesterday and all is good, in phase and sounding as great as the hype proclaimed


----------



## hydroid

1clearhead said:


> Finally got all my 3 ZSN's rounded up, which I only paid a mere $44 US dollars (306 RMB) for all.
> 
> This is my new posse!
> 
> Cyan/Black - Purple/Silver - Black/Black



Could be a silly question. Is there any sound difference with each different cables? Just curious to know. Great zsn collection


----------



## Podster

SybilLance said:


> I C it too.
> 
> Hoping my husband favorably responds  to the occasional subtle hints dropped his way about the new Topping NX3s.



Best of luck on that, as far as I can tell he's got a real keeperCan't tell you how many of these NX1's I gave as gifts and all are still working according to the owners




 

My apologies and not to upset the thread faithful


----------



## Awesomeness1307

Till now, the best sound I've heard is from an over ear pair of headphones I have called Superlux HD668B. They sound amazing. But I've recently been working out, and I also need some earphones I can carry around while travelling, and the Superlux are open back, so that's a no go.

I was thinking of buying the KZ AS10s, along with the official KZ Bluetooth cable. I would mostly use the IEMs wired with my smartphone (OnePlus One) or on my computer, which drives my Superlux headphones very well, and I would put on the Bluetooth cable when I work out.

Now, the questions I have are:


I know it's a weird comparison, but if anyone owns both the Superlux HD668B and the KZ AS10s, could you try to differentiate between their sound quality?


What's the battery life of the Bluetooth cable like with these IEMs?


The cable is sweatproof, but the earphones aren't, right? Is it safe to work out with them? The only working out I do is running, and my ears do get sweaty after a while. Would that damage the IEMs?


Could you recommend something better in this budget? Whatever the site, it should have cheap shipping to India.
And, that's about it. Would appreciate any helpful advice. Have a cheerful day!


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 29, 2018)

hydroid said:


> Could be a silly question. Is there any sound difference with each different cables? Just curious to know. Great zsn collection


The cables you see pictured basically renders a more balanced signature to all 3 ZSN's. The default cables that came with the Cyan/Black and Black/Black (not pictured) are stored away for safe keeping. For me, the cables you see pictured (whether the light copper or clear silver) provide the best extended sub-bass, midrange, and extended hi-end details for the ZSN.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Best of luck on that, as far as I can tell he's got a real keeperCan't tell you how many of these NX1's I gave as gifts and all are still working according to the owners
> 
> 
> 
> My apologies and not to upset the thread faithful



That flat braided cable in the top photo is beautiful


----------



## Drakis (Nov 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> Best of luck on that, as far as I can tell he's got a real keeperCan't tell you how many of these NX1's I gave as gifts and all are still working according to the owners
> 
> 
> 
> My apologies and not to upset the thread faithful



I bought a Topping NX1S and i like the sound coming from my mobile phone (2017 Huawei P9 Lite), paired with the ZST Pro.
By the way, what interconnect cable (male 3.5 to 3.5) do you recommend?


----------



## Podster

Drakis said:


> I bought a Topping NX1S and i like the sound coming from my mobile phone (2017 Huawei P9 Lite), paired with the ZST Pro.
> By the way, what interconnect cable (male 3.5 to 3.5) do you recommend?



The 1s is really sweet and such a nice form factor, I really like my NX2 as well, for IC cables I use this connector alot:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...4.0&pvid=5276707c-7d73-4333-b3da-a9ee84f6d01d 

I also have these but the Moon is very stiff, the second one is nice for the price and more pliable and the black and blue one may be too long for your application but all work well I'd not go longer than 55mm if possible and if you really need a short one I love the little black "Pig Tail" from JDS Labs for $4.99, works great when rigs are strapped together and are the same length units

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...5.0&pvid=147836b3-f1c1-4f77-ad18-f6c68384cb4c

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...6.0&pvid=c74a7abe-58be-4ae0-999b-14d8dc758b0a 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...5.0&pvid=a345d2e2-1696-417b-b9d8-ad655264ea66 

@Slater , now I remember buying that cable from NiceHCK back in March of last year, his current iteration of it is here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...4.0&pvid=e70e199e-5266-4b30-8278-3731c94f50e4

Here's the one I call the Pig Tail from JDS Labs


----------



## voicemaster

CoiL said:


> Just to get an idea about Your two input about IT01 vs. ZSN:
> 1) What tips are You using with IT01?
> 2) What is Your source gear and amping with both IEMs?
> 3) What tips are You using with ZSN?
> ...



1. newbee foams on both
2. I am using trn bt3 on both mostly or using my pc with cavalli liquid carbon v1
3. same newbee foam
4. about 100 hours or so, maybe I should give it more playing time as it is my substitute if my trn bt3 for ZSN ran out of battery

maybe I should rephrase myself when saying it01 boomy, but it is more bassy than ZSN when I do my comparison. Both sounds good and has different sound presentation.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> That flat braided cable in the top photo is beautiful



So I found my original order page for that gray cable and it's only a 8 core compared to the new 16 but it's a really nice cable and I wish they could still get it

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...&orderId=82909618523424&productId=32763788227 

Speaking of nice cables and the Pig Tail again this sweet cable will set you back a penny or two



 

To be honest I always thought the KZ Tr-Braid cable was based off that gray one



 

Had to also get a KZ back into the mix here


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TLDRonin said:


> Is this phasing issue a batch issue or do all these ne KZ copper/silver cables suffer from it?


We are going to have to post a review on KZ's Aliexpress with our e-mail and ask every customer to let us know.


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Should I cancel my ZS10 order? I already have ZSN and AS10 coming and own EDR1, ZS3, ZST, ES4, ED16, ED7 (I think)... etc.



Imho.
The AS10 is quite analytical compared to the ZS10, if it's a badly encoded track or simply a badly produced track you hear it.
My ZS10 I find to be more forgiving and musical and still very enjoyable to listen to, with a slightly bloated bass
But, I love the placement, soundstage and clear bass that the AS10 gives you, albeit tonally slightly brighter than the ZS10.

If you can afford both...get them. I cant, but glad I got both.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 29, 2018)

ZTE Axon (the glass is cracked, but everything works perfectly) and KZ ZSN with New Bee silicone tips.I take my chi-fi seriously.


the ZSN look and feel so much more premium than their actual cost.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Nov 29, 2018)

Mybutthurts said:


> The AS10 is quite analytical compared to the ZS10, if it's a badly encoded track or simply a badly produced track you hear it.
> My ZS10 I find to be more forgiving and musical and still very enjoyable to listen to, with a slightly bloated bass
> But, I love the placement, soundstage and clear bass that the AS10 gives you, albeit tonally slightly brighter than the ZS10.
> 
> If you can afford both...get them. I cant, but glad I got both.


I told Penon Audio to cancel my ZS10 order already. Oh well, maybe he has done so.

I must have made the order as a guest cause I can't see it in my account so can't message him there canceling my request to cancel. I'll try e-mail.

PS: He e-mailed me about the cancel so I assume it's done. I will wait till the next AE sale to get one again. I don't care about waiting longer to hear it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Is there a members listing somewhere of what the best cables are to get for their IEM's? Maybe from 1, 2, 3, etc?


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is there a members listing somewhere of what the best cables are to get for their IEM's? Maybe from 1, 2, 3, etc?



I assume you are talking about cables for KZ IEMs.

@hazuken has an extensive list (of all the different variants of genuine KZ cables). He is the man to ask.


----------



## manjunath1915

Cruelhand Luke said:


> ZTE Axon (the glass is cracked, but everything works perfectly) and KZ ZSN with New Bee silicone tips.I take my chi-fi seriously.
> 
> 
> the ZSN look and feel so much more premium than their actual cost.


I have axon too
It has high output impedance
Is there any issue of impedance matching
Kz zs5 sounds bassless and awful on axon 7 but on ipad its good 
Kz es4 sounds good
Kz es3 sounds awful


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Finally received my 11/11 haul with my silver/purple ZSN and the EP10(fukubukuro). Would post an impression of the purple ZSN and compare to my green one(that I love), but I made the mistake of opening up the EP10 and playing around with it. I still need to do some serious testing(extreme amping and EQ) but first impression are that this is a LEGEND in the making. Hopefully by the time I get unbanned from the CHIFI thread, I will have something to share. I will say that the IEM is kinda meh under quite a few circumstances but they go HAM under power at high volume. SONY XB90EX type extreme basshead type stuff. 

Anyway I will try to get to the purple ZSN soon. Was just kind of blown away by EP10 and now need to see how hard this PET driver can be pushed.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

The $5.50US silver 8 core KZ cable is sold out on Penon Audio's website.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

manjunath1915 said:


> I have axon too
> It has high output impedance
> Is there any issue of impedance matching
> Kz zs5 sounds bassless and awful on axon 7 but on ipad its good
> ...


Sounds fine to me. I haven't really been listening that critically, I just got them yesterday. I can say, I plugged them into my Magni 3 and used the Axon as my source and they sounded really good. I don't normally like headphones right out of the box, it usually takes me a little time to warm up to some headphones, but the ZSN, through the Magni was really enjoyable.


----------



## Slater (Nov 29, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The $5.50US silver 8 core KZ cable is sold out on Penon Audio's website.



I may have had something to do with that. I ordered a bunch of them on Cyber Monday, which probably lowered their stock considerably. I just couldn’t pass up the price!

I honestly didn’t think anyone really cared about that older KZ flat braided cable, due to the fact that it turns green. I’m sorry about that 

I’d offer you one, but by the time I ship it from me to you it wouldn’t be worth it.

I did miss out on the AS10 deal though. Whoever scooped those up for $33 got a sweet deal! I doubt we’ll ever see that price again (from any seller).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Apparently there's some kind of app online that checks Compensation EQ and Frequency response called React App? https://spion.github.io/compensation-eq/#frequency-response=&compensation=

What is this?


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 29, 2018)

Podster said:


> So I found my original order page for that gray cable and it's only a 8 core compared to the new 16 but it's a really nice cable and I wish they could still get it.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot...&orderId=82909618523424&productId=32763788227
> 
> ...



Here's the sexiest IC I ever laid eyes on but for the life of me can't remember from where I got the snapshot. It's so hot I may not even care if it sounds like crap.






 Huh? @Podster I had to do another double-take but you seem to have grown younger all of a sudden.


----------



## Slater

SybilLance said:


> Here's the sexiest IC I ever laid eyes on but for the life of me can't remember from where I got the snapshot. It's so hot I may not even care if it sounds like crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? @Podster I had to do another double-take but you seem to have grown younger all of a sudden.



For stacking pigtails, it's hard to beat the FiiO cables. Unbelievable price for what you get - Oyaide, SPC OFC cable.

Comes in straight and angled.

Straight: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KL7C10O
Angled: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R9WAYC6


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 30, 2018)

Slater said:


> For stacking pigtails, it's hard to beat the FiiO cables. Unbelievable price for what you get - Oyaide, SPC OFC cable.
> 
> Comes in straight and angled.
> 
> ...



Oh! The FiiO L16. That's what Podster and I have. Quite transparent, too.

I'll segue this into Rudolph's hourly ZSN fix—deep, palpable, textured, organic, acoustic bass from Brian Bromberg's _Wood II_ (Artistry Music, 2006):





(16-44.1 FLAC in Cayin N3 on medium gain and Super Slow filter, Apt-X Bluetooth to KZ Bluetooth 4.1 cable, to KZ ZSN with generic wide-bore foam tips)


----------



## Podster

SybilLance said:


> Here's the sexiest IC I ever laid eyes on but for the life of me can't remember from where I got the snapshot. It's so hot I may not even care if it sounds like crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? @Podster I had to do another double-take but you seem to have grown younger all of a sudden.



LOL, well knowing I used to watch my Avatar (Johnny Quest, Circa 1964) as a young boy I’m sure just the opposite of young but I do love fun Avatars. Now personality wise I’m probably a mix of Johnny and my last Avatar Yosimte Sam. You know kind of an educated “Rootin’ Tootin’” kind of guy 
I do like that IC and specs on it sound awesome as well. If you find one for sale post that link


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Do you think Colored IEM's have a better resale value than Black ones?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Do you think Colored IEM's have a better resale value than Black ones?


Oh yeah, some KZs you buy to listen to, some are strictly 'investment grade'....part of the enjoyment of chi-fi is not having to worry about things like which one is going to have the best re-sale value. Get the ones that appeal the most to you in terms of: looks, sound quality, fit, etc....the LAST thing on the list with a KZ is resale value.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Oh yeah, some KZs you buy to listen to, some are strictly 'investment grade'....part of the enjoyment of chi-fi is not having to worry about things like which one is going to have the best re-sale value. Get the ones that appeal the most to you in terms of: looks, sound quality, fit, etc....the LAST thing on the list with a KZ is resale value.


Black, black, black, black, black iem's. They go with everything! So fashionable!


----------



## dondonut

My ZSN have finally shipped, for now I'm enjoying the heck out of the BQ3 though so no rush .


----------



## CoiL (Nov 30, 2018)

Slater said:


> Angled: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R9WAYC6


Any idea where I can get this beside amazon? Seems like bargain price for 2x angled quality jacks.

Btw, I got my ZSN 10min ago.
OOTB, they have very slight sibilance/harshness @ treble (Sss/Zzz/Ccc) but it is more like BA treble nature
and probably they will calm down after some playtime.
Will leave them playing for few days and report back.

But I do have to say by brief listening - they probably are KZ`s BEST IEM, in every way.
To me they sound like improved/cleaned up ES4 which will be obsolete in my collection now.
Soundstage width is quite impressive but frontal soundstage depth and layering could be better.
Also vocals sound tad too closed-in presentation for my preferences, quite at "border of my headstage" but not annoying yet. Will see if this will be issue with longer listening sessions after I have given them some playtime alone in the corner on my PC table.
To tame hype train littlebit - IT01 better for sure (especially modded) but it is crazy how good ZSN is for 14$ as whole package.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> But I do have to say by brief listening - they probably are KZ`s BEST IEM, in every way.
> To me they sound like improved/cleaned up ES4 which will be obsolete in my collection now.
> Soundstage width is quite impressive but frontal soundstage depth and layering could be better.
> To tame hype train littlebit - IT01 better for sure (especially modded) but it is crazy how good ZSN is for 14$ as whole package.


What a presumptious guy! ZSN better than AS10?!  I'm glad to hear they are better than ES4 as those are my faves right now. Cool beans.

I want to know how you got the ZSN for $14.  As a Canadian I had to pay $20!


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want to know how you got the ZSN for $14.  As a Canadian I had to pay $20!


Gearbest sale, without discount codes, untracked post.


----------



## Conest

CoiL said:


> Gearbest sale, without discount codes, untracked post.


Same..
(But i paid for fast shipping)


----------



## Migou67

The ZSN pair with the xDuoo X3 perfectly, using the default firmware, no need to equalize any more with Rockbox !
The signature is perfect and all songs are enjoyable to my ears, it's first time this happens to me and this with the cheaper DAP and IEM I have buy.
Happy to finally found a manufacturer who knows my audio tastes and my budget, a nice IEM for a daily usage


----------



## HungryPanda

I just want to say I listened to quite a few Rock albums yesterday using the NiceHCK EP10 (Queens of the Stone Age, Black Sabbath and others) and they performed brilliantly. Such enjoyment from such a cheap iem. Isn't life just wonderful


----------



## Drakis

Podster said:


> The 1s is really sweet and such a nice form factor, I really like my NX2 as well, for IC cables I use this connector alot:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...4.0&pvid=5276707c-7d73-4333-b3da-a9ee84f6d01d
> 
> ...



Nice, i'll check out some of those cables. Thank you.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

HungryPanda said:


> I just want to say I listened to quite a few Rock albums yesterday using the NiceHCK EP10 (Queens of the Stone Age, Black Sabbath and others) and they performed brilliantly. Such enjoyment from such a cheap iem. Isn't life just wonderful


Yea, I have had them in my ears since I woke up, but I haven't listened to anything but Rap on em. Might venture into some different genres later, but so far, that bass. Very intoxicating for me. Hits hard with great slam and visceral impact.


----------



## Slater

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Oh yeah, some KZs you buy to listen to, some are strictly 'investment grade'....part of the enjoyment of chi-fi is not having to worry about things like which one is going to have the best re-sale value. Get the ones that appeal the most to you in terms of: looks, sound quality, fit, etc....the LAST thing on the list with a KZ is resale value.



I think the limited edition ZST would have good resale value. The ones with the special back covers.

The sound of the ZST isn’t the best though.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Any idea where I can get this beside amazon? Seems like bargain price for 2x angled quality jacks.
> 
> Btw, I got my ZSN 10min ago.
> OOTB, they have very slight sibilance/harshness @ treble (Sss/Zzz/Ccc) but it is more like BA treble nature
> ...



Since that’s a genuine FiiO cable, I would imagine anyone who carries FiiO products can get the cables.

And yes it is a bargain price. I’m convinced FiiO is losing money on them (or maybe just breaking even), and only using them as a way to encourage use of their products (ie stacking).

Kind of like how razor companies give you a nice razor handle because they know you’ll buy the blades.


----------



## Podster (Nov 30, 2018)

Drakis said:


> Nice, i'll check out some of those cables. Thank you.



When I say the wire is stiff I mean the wire is stiff on that one! I mean you get a bonus built in stand






@CoiL Why not the one off AliEx? Just figured if you bought from Penon you would also buy off AliEx Oh yeah, tips and Burn on the ZSN's


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> I just want to say I listened to quite a few Rock albums yesterday using the NiceHCK EP10 (Queens of the Stone Age, Black Sabbath and others) and they performed brilliantly. Such enjoyment from such a cheap iem. Isn't life just wonderful



Hmm, been playing around (or Rockin' out to Candlebox, Collective Soul, Dishwalla, Puddle of Mudd and Zep) with these Mee's off a little MiniT and at first I thought they were far to bass forward for the Pod but they have really grown on me especially with the M3s/Jazz combo and yes @LaughMoreDaily they are the classic dress black



 

I know, I know this is not a Mee thread so here's an old namesake rig with the 6's


----------



## khighly

<insert any KZ IEM> is KZ's best IEM ever!


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 30, 2018)

Podster said:


> I do like that IC and specs on it sound awesome as well. If you find one for sale post that link



Will do, Podster.

I'd forgotten I bought this KZ Type A Bluetooth "5.0" cable last mid-year sale at Shopee.ph for about US $6.75, I think.





There are quotation marks because the box it came with, and also the User's Manual have this tiny strip of white paper with "Version: Bluetooth 5.0" printed on it pasted on where I suppose the Bluetooth version would be stated. The box was sealed when I got it and the User's Manual naturally was inside the sealed box.





I asked the seller about this and he floored me when he replied it's authentic plus it's Apt-X capable.

True enough, it easily paired and connected with the Cayin N3 with Apt-X switched on. 

Attached to the KZ ED16 the sound was off, as if I were situated at the farthest corner of a huge auditorium while the artist was playing onstage. I suspected it may have something to do with the Apt-X codec and/or its implementation or, it may be wired out of phase, having read through Slater's posts regarding the latter. Well, if it's just wiring I may have the inclination but I (or my husband) don't have the dexterity, patience and eyesight to do any repairs so the cable stayed in its box.

This morning on a whim I dug the cable  out and attached it to the ZSN then connected to the N3. Brian Bromberg's acoustic bass surprisingly sounded good—very good in fact but a bit thin. I switched the N3 to medium gain and suddenly it's as if I were listening to the ZSN _wired_. That was the setup with the photo of Rudolph I posted some 15 posts back. After a recharge I'm still listening thru this ZSN-Bluetooth cable combo.

Of course I'm happy. Very happy.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Hmm, been playing around (or Rockin' out to Candlebox, Collective Soul, Dishwalla, Puddle of Mudd and Zep) with these Mee's off a little MiniT and at first I thought they were far to bass forward for the Pod but they have really grown on me especially with the M3s/Jazz combo and yes @LaughMoreDaily they are the classic dress black
> 
> 
> 
> I know, I know this is not a Mee thread so here's an old namesake rig with the 6's



Ah, good ol’ cmoys


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Ah, good ol’ cmoys



Yep, JDS built this one with my box I sent them This particular was purposely built to drive my AKG-702's, dual 9 Volt's and it will drive anything I own John did a bang up job on this baby, can hardly turn the dial for efficient iem's but with all that power it's dead quite


----------



## Slater

SybilLance said:


> Will do, Podster.
> 
> I'd forgotten I bought this KZ Type A Bluetooth "5.0" cable last mid-year sale at Shopee.ph for about US $6.75, I think.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear about a *good* KZ Bluetooth cable for a change. Their other cables have been less than stellar. It sounds like they finally got it right with the BT 5.0 cable!


----------



## randomnin (Nov 30, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> [..]
> 
> [..]


What's with this "Weight: 10g*+/-3g*" everywhere? I mean, in the case of this item it turns out you get 30% more/less of your product! That wouldn't fly in grocery stores and markets! Outrageous!


----------



## exavolt

Hi guys. Any stores with a good deal (discount) for the ZSN? I know that the banned stores would give some discount with a referral message, but I want to know if there's another store at AE which would give some discount.


----------



## randomnin

khighly said:


> <insert any KZ IEM> is KZ's best IEM ever!


This, totally.
Also, KZ ZS4 has arrived. It's the best KZ IEM ever! No, wait, imho it's the best sub-50$ IEM in the current juncture (from the devil's dozen, more or less, I've tested). With the precondition that it fits you well. Unequalized I like the signature better than unequalized ZSN. But the 250Hz territory needs to be brought down approximately a significant 5dB. The overall sound quality is very close to ZSN, no disqualifying blunders made. Sibilance is controlled well. The isolation is unrivaled and truly helpful. Comfortable, I can even sleep in them. The cable, the casings, everything is nicely pure black. No bling (once I remove that attempt at calligraphy, that is), pure function. I guess I'll give my purple ZSN to someone with a liking toward shiny things and currently characterizable by a lack of earphones.
On a side note, the starlines are softer than ZSN's. I like the softer ones better.
Anyhow, KZ wins!


----------



## randomnin

exavolt said:


> Hi guys. Any stores with a good deal (discount) for the ZSN? I know that the banned stores would give some discount with a referral message, but I want to know if there's another store at AE which would give some discount.


Extramarital sex was banned --> but it is good.
Marijuana was/is banned --> but it's real good!
______________________________________
There are stores banned here --> ... Well, you get where this (extremely poor) inductive proof is going, amirite?

Yeah, sorry, I really have no useful input to give here


----------



## Podster

randomnin said:


> This, totally.
> Also, KZ ZS4 has arrived. It's the best KZ IEM ever! No, wait, imho it's the best sub-50$ IEM in the current juncture (from the devil's dozen, more or less, I've tested). With the precondition that it fits you well. Unequalized I like the signature better than unequalized ZSN. But the 250Hz territory needs to be brought down approximately a significant 5dB. The overall sound quality is very close to ZSN, no disqualifying blunders made. Sibilance is controlled well. The isolation is unrivaled and truly helpful. Comfortable, I can even sleep in them. The cable, the casings, everything is nicely pure black. No bling (once I remove that attempt at calligraphy, that is), pure function. I guess I'll give my purple ZSN to someone with a liking toward shiny things and currently characterizable by a lack of earphones.
> On a side note, the starlines are softer than ZSN's. I like the softer ones better.
> Anyhow, KZ wins!



I like them both, comfort and bass to ZS4! But overall build and across the board response I must give to the ZSN's and I sure don't think the black ones are blingy at all Do you consider the Red ZS4 blingy?


----------



## exavolt

randomnin said:


> Extramarital sex was banned --> but it is good.
> Marijuana was/is banned --> but it's real good!
> ______________________________________
> There are stores banned here --> ... Well, you get where this (extremely poor) inductive proof is going, amirite?
> ...


Haha... right . It's not that I against buying from them, I've done some business with one of the stores and pretty satisfied. I am just wondering if there's another store with similar deal that I don't know. But thinking again, from my observations, it seems that these stores are usually giving the lowest prices.


----------



## randomnin

Podster said:


> I like them both, comfort and bass to ZS4! But overall build and across the board response I must give to the ZSN's and I sure don't think the black ones are blingy at all Do you consider the Red ZS4 blingy?


If you look closely, I've never explicitly said that anything other than the text on ZS4 is blingy. I don't know if a colour per se can be characterized that way, but I do like bright red less than darker colours. The purple ZSN's shiny faceplate, though, I do find blingy.
My opinion is that ZSN vs. ZS4 sound is too close for me to make meaningful calls. The build material quality has no meaning, because the functional value of the build is higher for ZS4, for me (unless it breaks quicker). Whether the reinforced connection of the ZSN is better or the recessed one ZS4 sports is, time and heavy use will tell. The cable of ZS4 is thinner and tangles more. I don't hear sound differences between cables, so thinness doesn't matter (being bright copper colour or silver, though, is lamentable in my eyes), but the tangling is a minor con. Since the cable is changeable it's even less of a problem.
The corollary is that unless ZS4 has really bad endurance issues, it's the best thing I've owned and will buy more of.



exavolt said:


> Haha... right . It's not that I against buying from them, I've done some business with one of the stores and pretty satisfied. I am just wondering if there's another store with similar deal that I don't know. But thinking again, from my observations, it seems that these stores are usually giving the lowest prices.


I think I read somewhere here that Audiobudget's Facebook page has coupons from a legal store, so try lurking there.


----------



## Podster

randomnin said:


> If you look closely, I've never explicitly said that anything other than the text on ZS4 is blingy. I don't know if a colour per se can be characterized that way, but I do like bright red less than darker colours. The purple ZSN's shiny faceplate, though, I do find blingy.
> My opinion is that ZSN vs. ZS4 sound is too close for me to make meaningful calls. The build material quality has no meaning, because the functional value of the build is higher for ZS4, for me (unless it breaks quicker). Whether the reinforced connection of the ZSN is better or the recessed one ZS4 sports is, time and heavy use will tell. The cable of ZS4 is thinner and tangles more. I don't hear sound differences between cables, so thinness doesn't matter (being bright copper colour or silver, though, is lamentable in my eyes), but the tangling is a minor con. Since the cable is changeable it's even less of a problem.
> The corollary is that unless ZS4 has really bad endurance issues, it's the best thing I've owned and will buy more of.
> 
> ...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

randomnin said:


> The corollary is that unless ZS4 has really bad endurance issues, it's the best thing I've owned and will buy more of.


Wow, I'm really surprised to hear that. I thought ZS4 would be a throw away IEM not worth buying.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> <insert any KZ IEM> is KZ's best IEM ever!
> 
> *IEM:* KZ AS10 | KZ ZS10 | KZ ZSN | iBasso IT03 | KZ ZS6 | KZ ZS5 | KZ ZSR | 1More Triple | KZ ZST | Tennmak Pro | Tennmak Piano | KZ ATE | KZ ATR | KZ ED12



Then why isn't your whole signature filled with KZ IEM's? I call a fake! A liar!


----------



## Slater (Nov 30, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Wow, I'm really surprised to hear that. I thought ZS4 would be a throw away IEM not worth buying.



For those it fits well, it offers near-CIEM levels of isolation.

Think of it like ‘ear plugs that play music’. And there aren’t that many choices in that category.

It’s great for musicians, or anyone that needs isolation from loud environmental sounds - those working around factory machinery, loud engines, etc.

And the sound is good enough to satisfy those looking for a fun v shaped sound. It’s not for everyone though, but at $12 it’s cheap enough that most everyone can at least try it.

It also offers an upgrade over the ZS3. So for those that own(ed) ZS3, and liked the fit but were less than impressed with the sound, the ZS4 is a definite improvement over the ZS3.

But the fit is the key; whether it’s for the ZS3, ZS4, or even the QKZ VK3 (which is mediocre).


----------



## randomnin

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Wow, I'm really surprised to hear that. I thought ZS4 would be a throw away IEM not worth buying.


It can be not worth buying if you already own something similar or better sounding/designed, or if either you don't need extra isolation and comfort (the nozzles are of a slightly smaller diameter than ZSN, that's better for my ears, your mileage may vary) over what you already have or if they turn out ill-fitting.


----------



## revand (Nov 30, 2018)

Ido not want to insult somebodies faith, but I wanted to show you the perfect harmony between my Sita sculpture bought in Bali and the very nice KZ ZSN. I had a chance to listen to the ZSN with the a DAP, which not the most beautiful, but one of the best sounding the Astell & Kern Kann. The Kann and the KZ ZSN (price-wise the Kann cost 70 x the ZSN's price) together produced real music to my ears, and their cooperation is simply breathtaking! Try them together if you can (Kann).
The KZ ZSN sounded so good with the Kann that I simply could not believe my ears 
However I found later my regular IEM the KZ ZS5 a bit more matured than the ZSN, but for EUR 15 the ZSN is an unbelievably good product.


----------



## Conest

AS10 are currently priced at 40 $ on gearbest with a coupon.. (black one) 
Coupon:.   3N1QTFWQKN


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 30, 2018)

revand said:


> I found later my regular IEM the KZ ZS5 a bit more matured than the ZSN, but for EUR 15 the ZSN is an unbelievably good product.



Yep, the ZS5(v1) isn't perfect but they really do hold their own. 



 



Spoiler





 


 


 








 

I spent some time with these last night. The BA10 outperforms the ZS5(v1) in timbre and accuracy but the ZS5(v1) is still much more than just the sum of its parts. 

I nominate them as one for the KZ Hall of Fame. That Audeze-like logo always bugged me though. Can't find a "K" in that logo to save my life. Funny that no one ever mentioned it before.



 


 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 1, 2018)

Podster said:


> Yep, JDS built this one with my box I sent them This particular was purposely built to drive my AKG-702's, dual 9 Volt's and it will drive anything I own John did a bang up job on this baby, can hardly turn the dial for efficient iem's but with all that power it's dead quite



A bespoke cmoyBB from JDS with dual 9 volts! 

That's the same power supply for the O2, right? Does John Seaber still accept custom jobs? He's a regular cool dude with mad engineering skills who still personally answers customer support emails (he did mine) despite being JDS Labs' CEO. And he's got the folks over at Audio Science Review in a tizzy after amirm gave JDS Labs' newest Atom headphone amplifier his highest recommendation. A $99 transportable with tested and reviewed TOTL specs and performance. Probably the best bargain as regards price-to-performance, no hype (there! I said that 4-letter pejorative) intended.

We _may_ be getting an Atom this Christmas. Or is it _might_?


If someone is predisposed to shout "shill" my way I do have the JDS Labs Ultra-Short 3.5 mm interconnect cable (also posted by the Podster some pages ago) and although it's ergonomically perfect and makes everything so streamlined I do think the FiiO L16 interconnect _sounds_ better.


----------



## SybilLance

randomnin said:


> What's with this "Weight: 10g*+/-3g*" everywhere? I mean, in the case of this item it turns out you get 30% more/less of your product! That wouldn't fly in grocery stores and markets! Outrageous!



Just in case they decide to change the chip at the last minute? Plus the weight of the pasted paper strips..?


----------



## MDH12AX7

The BQEYZ BQ3 is the KZ ZS6 that I always wished for. I liked my ZS6 but the treble was too sibilant and the squared off corners just dug into my ears. I even took a file to the corners to make them fit. Ruined the looks by the way   The BQ3 is rounder, slightly smaller and vastly more comfortable. The bass is DEEP, fast and textured. Mids are full and detailed and the treble is beautiful, airy and has ZERO sibilance. They are very  coherent with no ugly peaks in the mids and treble. Well done BQEYZ! I am using an 8 core balanced cable out of my Hiby R3.


----------



## MDH12AX7

Deleted


----------



## Podster

SybilLance said:


> Just in case they decide to change the chip at the last minute? Plus the weight of the pasted paper strips..?



Not to mention +\-3 is nothing really, that could actually be the difference in packing material as well

Indeed the L16 is a far superior IC to the mini but sometimes even aesthetics trumps the SQ when they are not that far apart. I don’t have the ears anymore to fine line anything and even that sweet little M3s/NX4 combo you have right there sounds better than 99.9% of the world ever gets to hear


----------



## eggnogg

KZ bluetooth module upgrade
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...Wireless-Wire-for-KZ/4069015_32957037572.html


Spoiler: [][]


----------



## Cruelhand Luke (Nov 30, 2018)

This is what the ugly black ZSN look like sitting on your desk.


----------



## DocHoliday (Nov 30, 2018)

SybilLance said:


>



Pick a good pair of KZ's and try Ophélie Gaillard's Bach Cello Suites

GOOD LUCK TRYING TO LOCATE THIS 2000 RECORDING.


Spoiler









NEWER (2010)


Spoiler



No 1










No.6









Also, I highly recommend Gaillard's 2005 Vivaldi Cello works as well.



 
https://www.amazon.com/Pulcinella-S...llo+sonata&dpPl=1&dpID=5188VCICMnL&ref=plSrch

All recordings are great on the ZS5(v1) & ZS6.......not necessarily in that order.


----------



## Slater

eggnogg said:


> KZ bluetooth module upgrade
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...Wireless-Wire-for-KZ/4069015_32957037572.html
> 
> 
> Spoiler: [][]



I wonder why they didn’t do BT 5.0 on this product, since they moved to BT 5.0 on their most recent small cable? Very odd...


----------



## eggnogg

Slater said:


> why they didn’t do BT 5.0 on this product



err, cleaning their inventory, maybe


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 1, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Pick a good pair of KZ's and try Ophélie Gaillard's Bach Cello Suites
> 
> GOOD LUCK TRYING TO LOCATE THIS 2000 RECORDING.
> 
> ...




Thank you so much for these recommendations, Doc.

There is an ethereal eminence specific to the unaccompanied cello, none more so than with Bach's Cello Suites. These compositions may be Baroque in origin but the level of technical mastery and depth of soul required upon performance give them an enduring exquisiteness that elevates, enervates and at once soothes the spirit. Every cellist worth his or her instrument has to perform it once, a milestone effort in the cellist's repertoire. (Viva Alliteration!)


For Bach's Cello Suites aside from that of David Watkins (Resonus, 2015) I also have FLACs of that of Steven Isserlis (Hyperion, 2007) and Yo-Yo Ma's _Six Evolutions_ (Sony Classical, 2016). Love them all, and always borrow the HiFiMAN HE-400i to listen. The KZs may be up to it (I believe the ZS5v1 and ZS6 with bullet foam tips are, also the ZSN but with wide-bore tips) but it's like dressing up to go to the opera or a classical performance; through the best medium, it's paying homage and showing respect and being on your best behavior and giving it your best attention.
  

I've looked up the Suites by Ophélie Gaillard after I read your post. Amazon has the 2011 CD but only has mp3s for the 2000 recording. You're right, it might be difficult to find. I may need help.

Without meaning to be offensive and anarchic allow me this quote by a certain WeatherMax: "I follow all intellectual property laws; I abide by all intellectual property rules and regulations; I respect all intellectual property rights. Alas, I am not rich."


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 2, 2018)

$11.81 US for a KZ ZSA!

I just bought one, why don't you? 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Sport-Earphone-Headset-Noise/32952541233.html


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## SyCoTiM (Dec 1, 2018)

Wow, my ZSN can keep up with my unamped 58x running from my phone. It nearly matched the speed, soundstage width, and even surpasses it on bass impact. The only glaring weakness is vocals and a bit on seperation(though that's hardly a weakness). The high vocals sound shrill(y) which is kinda annoying when you A/B it with headphones that handles the same sound less offensively. Also, the 58x brings the vocals forth a bit compared the the ZSN. Once I amped both, the 58x showed it chops and the gap became more noticeable. But damn, these are worth totally worth the $20 I paid for it. I did not expect it to hold a candle to the 58x. Time will tell if the build and material holds up to the Sennheiser's, but KZ nailed it with the technical capabilities for the price. Furthermore, they handily beat my Sony MH1, ATH IM50s, and Brainwavz Delta in overall sound.


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have a new drug I'm addicted to: KZ IEM's. I've decided to sell every pair of audio gear I have (on ears, over ears, iems and earbuds) that aren't KZ or Superlux.
> 
> I'm also tired of being burned by the reviews on Audiobudget, a few too many times. 5 star reviews for sometimes 1 star headphones. Lame.
> 
> I'm only buying KZ for now and know that will ease the wasting of money.



Uhmm...that's a bit drastic, don't you think?


----------



## B9Scrambler

.


----------



## eggnogg

found on fb, as10 w/ fp modded


----------



## TheVortex

eggnogg said:


> found on fb, as10 w/ fp modded



Looks amazing. It would be great if they sold them looking like that.


----------



## HungryPanda

One of my favourite classical albums recently


----------



## Tihstea

I just received a pair of AS10s and they seem to have some white noise. It disappears after like 10 seconds of me stopping the music on the device. If I unpause, it immediately comes back and stays for a few seconds after paused. It's as if I can hear them turning on and off. I've only owned an ATR from KZ and this behavior was not present. Is this normal?


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> .



I agree with your considered assessment


----------



## B9Scrambler

groucho69 said:


> I agree with your considered assessment



I had a snarky response written up and decided it would be best to remove it since it added nothing positive to the thread. 



Tihstea said:


> I just received a pair of AS10s and they seem to have some white noise. It disappears after like 10 seconds of me stopping the music on the device. If I unpause, it immediately comes back and stays for a few seconds after paused. It's as if I can hear them turning on and off. I've only owned an ATR from KZ and this behavior was not present. Is this normal?



That's the AS10 picking up noise from your device. One of the downfalls of sensitive iems. Tossing in an impedance adapter fixes that issue.


----------



## Tihstea

B9Scrambler said:


> I had a snarky response written up and decided it would be best to remove it since it added nothing positive to the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the AS10 picking up noise from your device. One of the downfalls of sensitive iems. Tossing in an impedance adapter fixes that issue.



Damn, I wish I knew this before ordering, so that they would arrive at the same time. Is this what I'm looking for? 75 Ohm is my guess.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DUN...pter-3-5mm-Jack-Professional/32839680827.html

So basically if I want to plug my headphones into my phone I have to have this huge adapter sticking out of it? What would happen If I bought a new Iphone that could only use a lightning headphone adapter. Would I need to plug it in that one as well? Also what if I bought one of those bluetooth cables (looking at the TRN one, based on previous posts in this thread) ? Are they complete garbage?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Tihstea said:


> Damn, I wish I knew this before ordering, so that they would arrive at the same time. Is this what I'm looking for? 75 Ohm is my guess.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DUN...pter-3-5mm-Jack-Professional/32839680827.html
> 
> So basically if I want to plug my headphones into my phone I have to have this huge adapter sticking out of it? What would happen If I bought a new Iphone that could only use a lightning headphone adapter. Would I need to plug it in that one as well? Also what if I bought one of those bluetooth cables (looking at the TRN one, based on previous posts in this thread) ? Are they complete garbage?



Something like that or the iFi EarBuddy would probably work. No idea how you'd deal with anything on an iPhone. Only adapter I have is the iFi ieMatch which is way more expensive and a lot more bulky, but I need it for a few earphones. Might pick up that Dunu one for myself and see how it does. Someone more knowledgeable on this subject would be better suited to giving you suggestions on a cost effective way to resolve this.


----------



## maxxevv

You don't need such a big impedance adaptor. 

A poorly conducting cable is all you need. 

On mine, I never had any obvious noise issues on high gain mode with the original cables. But I switched to some 8-core cables that were like 0.5 Ohms lower in resistance and all of a sudden I was picking up obvious noise at very low volumes in the same high gain mode. 

Maybe a cheap cable extender/ adaptor that adds 1~2 Ohm is all you need.


----------



## Tihstea (Dec 1, 2018)

Hmm, yeah, true, I am actually using them with this cable:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...hone-Upgrade-Cable-for-SE846/32931782166.html

And the noise is definitely louder than the one I get from the original cable. But it is still present in the stock one. I guess I'll try with that adapter.


----------



## Zerohour88

B9Scrambler said:


> Something like that or the iFi EarBuddy would probably work. No idea how you'd deal with anything on an iPhone. Only adapter I have is the iFi ieMatch which is way more expensive and a lot more bulky, but I need it for a few earphones. Might pick up that Dunu one for myself and see how it does. Someone more knowledgeable on this subject would be better suited to giving you suggestions on a cost effective way to resolve this.



I was under the impression that something like the IEMatch and an impedance adapter plug (that adds a certain resistance value) are different and that they might not work the same regarding removing hiss. 

I'm still not clear on the difference, since I think they're all just resistors?


----------



## Slater (Dec 1, 2018)

Tihstea said:


> Damn, I wish I knew this before ordering, so that they would arrive at the same time. Is this what I'm looking for? 75 Ohm is my guess.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DUN...pter-3-5mm-Jack-Professional/32839680827.html
> 
> So basically if I want to plug my headphones into my phone I have to have this huge adapter sticking out of it? What would happen If I bought a new Iphone that could only use a lightning headphone adapter. Would I need to plug it in that one as well? Also what if I bought one of those bluetooth cables (looking at the TRN one, based on previous posts in this thread) ? Are they complete garbage?



Another option would be to use a different source. You can get a budget ChiFi DAP in a wide range of prices, some basically the same price as an iFi adapters or fancy cables.


----------



## Luxed

Slater said:


> Another option would be to use a different source. You can get a budget ChiFi DAP in a wide range of prices, some basically the same price as an iFi adapters or fancy cables.


That was going to be my option. The only issue would be if the person wants to use Spotify. I don't know if a cheap player could do that.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> I had a snarky response written up and decided it would be best to remove it since it added nothing positive to the thread.



Please share


----------



## B9Scrambler

Zerohour88 said:


> I was under the impression that something like the IEMatch and an impedance adapter plug (that adds a certain resistance value) are different and that they might not work the same regarding removing hiss.
> 
> I'm still not clear on the difference, since I think they're all just resistors?



That's why I suggested contacting someone more knowledgeable, haha. iEMatch changes output impedance and removes hiss. The other adds resistance and removes hiss. Same end result, two different ways of getting there. Or maybe I'm completely off base, flat out wrong, and/or simplifying it too much. In the grand scheme, I don't really care how the end result is reached. Just kill the background noise and I'm content. 



groucho69 said:


> Please share


----------



## Zerohour88

B9Scrambler said:


> That's why I suggested contacting someone more knowledgeable, haha. iEMatch changes output impedance and removes hiss. The other adds resistance and removes hiss. Same end result, two different ways of getting there. Or maybe I'm completely off base, flat out wrong, and/or simplifying it too much. In the grand scheme, I don't really care how the end result is reached. Just kill the background noise and I'm content.



I'd say the simplification is kinda right? I found the instructions to make a DIY IEMatch here and while the impedance adapter plugs may remove hiss, it can have some undesirable effects on the sound (depending on gear):

https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/headphone-attenuation-adapter/

I must say, I can't be bothered to actually understand the concept behind it, but since the adapter is easy enough to make, shouldn't be an issue to anyone handy with a soldering iron. Seems the DIY adapter will always run the IEM with 3 ohm or so output impedance (which is acceptable for most IEMs). I measured my Breeze Audio SE4 and that had 11 ohm OI, which isn't ideal for sensitive IEMs (wasn't an issue with the ZS5v1 or any of my gear, but produced hiss on the Andro).


----------



## B9Scrambler

Zerohour88 said:


> I can't be bothered to actually understand the concept behind it



That's how I feel about most aspects of this hobby as of late.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


>


----------



## B9Scrambler

groucho69 said:


>



Sorry to disappoint, but I removed the post for a reason.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> Sorry to disappoint, but I removed the post for a reason.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 1, 2018)

Hi everyone,
Thought to join this great forum since KZ AS10 became a little revelation to me and now is my daily IEM (preferred to few $50-150  in my previous audiophile-to-be journey).
My first KZ was ZS10, which has some great features, but did not work for me.
Now KZ ZSN and ZSA are on the way


----------



## DocHoliday

PhonoPhi said:


> Hi everyone,
> Thought to join this great forum since KZ AS10 became a little revelation to me and now is my daily IEM (preferred to few $50-150  in my previous audiophile-to-be journey).




Welcome to the thread and sorry about your wallet.



PhonoPhi said:


> Now KZ ZSN and ZSA are on the way



Be aware that the ZSA can offer up two very distinct sound signatures depending on the eartips used.



 

Narrow-bored silicone eartips:
The ZSA presentation is full-bodied with lots of micro-detail. The bass is thick, rich and as forward as the energetic lower- and upper-treble. The midrange with these eartips can be somewhat thin but not enough to detract from the presentation unless the track(s) or genre showcase the midrange (bluegrass, folk, acoustic, etc.).

Wide-bored silicone eartips:
The ZSA bass is neutralized. This brings forth the midrange and the presentation gains more "air" and definition. The bass is nearly on equal footing with the midrange. In addition, the bass loses some of its punch but it still retains enough body for a clean and detailed lower end. I listened to the ZSA and ZST back to back for approximately 45 minutes and I can confidently say that the ZSA renders the ZST obsolete.

If it turns out that you enjoy the ZSA enough to score it a 7.5 or higher out of 10 then I highly recommend giving the ZS6 a go. You'd probably rate it a 9 out of 10. 

Finally, if you can find an ATR (usually  $7+/-) pick one up because it offers up a great price-to-performance ratio and it is quite different from any of the aforementioned models. The debut release is equipped with an ABS dynamic driver while the more current release is equipped differently. I have the former but the latter is reportedly just as good; it may differ slightly from the original. 



 


 


 

Again, welcome to the thread and feel free to share your thoughts once you've spent a little time with your new IEMs.

Welcome to our world.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 1, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Welcome to the thread and sorry about your wallet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the warm welcome!
I feel my wallet is a bit safer confining to KZ rather than all IEM out there ranging from ca. $10 to infinity 

As for ZSA, I was really curious to explore their v-shape.
I use silicone wide-bore tips with all my IEMs. (Plan to ask few questions about them later)


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 1, 2018)

Really need to get me an AS10. Just had a little a little "discussion" with the wife though. I have to get rid of stuff before I get anything new. So If anybody is interested in trading for a mint condition Havi B3 pro 1 ver 1 with box and things lemme know. LOL. I also have ZST, ZSA, ED8 and ED7 to get rid of. 

On a serious note though got TRN BT20 today. These things are really impressive. Press and hold both buttons at the same time until you get connection confirmation, usually just a couple seconds. Then look for connection on whatever BT device you are using. When it finds TRN, then connect.
Sounds great so far. I paired them up with ZS10. It pushes them fine. Super Loud. The closest I can get to full volume before my brains start boiling is 80%. Will keep a track on battery time, but in over 2 hours of wearing tonight, walking around the house with device in kitchen, I never once dropped. That in and of itself is worth the price of admission to me. Don't know how long the battery last, but I will be wearing these at work this week and testing synergy with different IEMs.

So far I give them a thumbs up.


----------



## voicemaster

BadReligionPunk said:


> Really need to get me an AS10. Just had a little a little "discussion" with the wife though. I have to get rid of stuff before I get anything new. So If anybody is interested in trading for a mint condition Havi B3 pro 1 ver 1 with box and things lemme know. LOL. I also have ZST, ZSA, ED8 and ED7 to get rid of.
> 
> On a serious note though got TRN BT20 today. These things are really impressive. Press and hold both buttons at the same time until you get connection confirmation, usually just a couple seconds. Then look for connection on whatever BT device you are using. When it finds TRN, then connect.
> Sounds great so far. I paired them up with ZS10. It pushes them fine. Super Loud. The closest I can get to full volume before my brains start boiling is 80%. Will keep a track on battery time, but in over 2 hours of wearing tonight, walking around the house with device in kitchen, I never once dropped. That in and of itself is worth the price of admission to me. Don't know how long the battery last, but I will be wearing these at work this week and testing synergy with different IEMs.
> ...



Where did you buy BT20?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Has anyone tried BT module for KZ ZSN? What impact is on the sound quality? Is it worth investing $15?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

voicemaster said:


> Where did you buy BT20?


From NICEHCK audio store.


----------



## SybilLance

Dani157 said:


> Has anyone tried BT module for KZ ZSN? What impact is on the sound quality? Is it worth investing $15?



I did, the Apt-X capable KZ Bluetooth cable with the ZSN and it sounds great. Signal broadcast by Cayin N3 on medium gain. 

Do read the previous dozen or so pages and you'll see.


----------



## SybilLance

Tihstea said:


> I just received a pair of AS10s and they seem to have some white noise. It disappears after like 10 seconds of me stopping the music on the device. If I unpause, it immediately comes back and stays for a few seconds after paused. It's as if I can hear them turning on and off. I've only owned an ATR from KZ and this behavior was not present. Is this normal?



May I know what is your source device? Is it a smartphone?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SybilLance said:


> I did, the Apt-X capable KZ Bluetooth cable with the ZSN and it sounds great. Signal broadcast by Cayin N3 on medium gain.
> 
> Do read the previous dozen or so pages and you'll see.


Thanks for the info. Will surely browse through.


----------



## eclein

Hey guys! Sold the 64’s, bought Fiio M7 with ESS Sabre chip. Now I stream Spotify to the M7 and use my various KZ’s wired to M7 and sweet streaming has been flooding my ears...sounds excellent’te (probably not a word)!

Any new KZ’s coming that you have heard about??


----------



## Slater (Dec 2, 2018)

eclein said:


> Hey guys! Sold the 64’s, bought Fiio M7 with ESS Sabre chip. Now I stream Spotify to the M7 and use my various KZ’s wired to M7 and sweet streaming has been flooding my ears...sounds excellent’te (probably not a word)!
> 
> Any new KZ’s coming that you have heard about??



ZS7 is supposed to be coming soon.

Be aware that there is zero info other than this 1 photo. No one has heard it, price is unknown, no release date is known, no one knows if it’s better than this or that, etc.


----------



## crabdog

I had a heck of a time trying to get the KZ BA10 to fit in my ears comfortably. Once I swapped over to another cable they fit like a glove! My belated review is here:
https://primeaudio.org/kz-ba10-review/


----------



## eclein (Dec 2, 2018)

I wonder what the English version reads....can anybody translate? Can Google do pictures?
Intriguing, if these top recent KZ’s we’ll be in a coma! Or twitchy like! Ahhhhhhh!
Thanks for the info! I love my BA10’s!


----------



## Luxed

eclein said:


> Any new KZ’s coming that you have heard about??


I just saw a photo of the AS06 on kz official store on AliExpress. Saw it mentioned once or twice before in the thread. 
06, does that mean they'll have 3 BA per ears?


----------



## maxxevv

eclein said:


> I wonder what the English version reads....can anybody translate? Can Google do pictures?
> Intriguing, if these top recent KZ’s we’ll be in a coma! Or twitchy like! Ahhhhhhh!
> Thanks for the info! I love my BA10’s!



The ZS7 poster just says 1 dynamic driver, 4 balanced armatures. 3 regions of crispness, stunning bass. 

Its probably the same driver configuration as the ZS10 with some tuning differences.


----------



## eclein

Thanks.....I’m already sweating a little...... lol


----------



## Slater (Dec 2, 2018)

Luxed said:


> I just saw a photo of the AS06 on kz official store on AliExpress. Saw it mentioned once or twice before in the thread.
> 06, does that mean they'll have 3 BA per ears?



3 A*d*mature per side.


----------



## jant71

Seems it...


----------



## groucho69

If it's Tuesday there must be another KZ model....


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> If it's Tuesday there must be another KZ model....



You will have to wait a couple of days then.


----------



## Luxed

Slater said:


> 3 A*d*mature per side.


Oh, I see. The photo I saw was really small. 3 BA per sides? I'm curious about the sound signature it could have.
And I'm curious about the ZS7 as I don't own the ZS6 but really like their looks. I will take a pair when they come out.
I'll wait for reviews of the AS06 though because I already have the AS10


----------



## canzz

I just gave my ES3 to my brother and I was intending to get another one but since there is a lot of new KZ models now I wanted to ask if there is a model I might want to try out. Any suggestions?


----------



## Slater

canzz said:


> I just gave my ES3 to my brother and I was intending to get another one but since there is a lot of new KZ models now I wanted to ask if there is a model I might want to try out. Any suggestions?



What sound signature do you like?

More v shaped? More neutral?

What is your tolerance to treble?

Do you like a smoother sound, or more clarity?

Do you need a removable cable, or are are ok with a fixed cable?

What’s your budget?


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 2, 2018)

Great feedback on the BA10!

I don't hear the upper-treble that you do but we are in agreement regarding the 6-7khz range that I noticed mostly on my smartphone and ZuneHD, not the Fiio X3(i). One of these days we'll have to see the BA10's impedance graph which may confirm or deny what I am hearing

I'll have to update my BA10 review (and all subsequent reviews) with information regarding my sensitivity to the 3khz - 7khz range of the frequency spectrum. I'm noticing it more and more. It became more evident as I listened to the EMI-CI880 and the ZS3(v1).

My own idiosyncrasies aside, the BA10 is an excellent in-ear for medium-sized or larger ears.......even at it's current $75+/-.

p.s. - be aware that my feedback incorporates the removal of the foam inserts from my BA10.


----------



## SybilLance

crabdog said:


> I had a heck of a time trying to get the KZ BA10 to fit in my ears comfortably. Once I swapped over to another cable they fit like a glove! My belated review is here:
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-ba10-review/



Another great review, @crabdog and a helpful one because of your uniquely personal solution to the apparent fit problem. May I ask if, with the substitute cable, does the straight connector project from the notch above your tragus almost parallel to the ground? If it does the same might work for me and my small ears, too.  

Are the eartips you used in listening to the BA10 your usual wide-bore ones (same with the ZSN and AS10)? You didn't try the Slater mod as Doc did? 

Sorry for the pesky questions but I've been taking notes re: ZS10 vs. AS10 vs. BA10. Your review of the BA10 and the those of the 4 others here in Head-fi are consistent as to its uncomfortable, boxy shape, and I have exactly 1 week left to make up my mind for the upcoming 12.12 Sale here. 

Btw love the graphs, especially the comparison overlays. Thanks!


----------



## manjunath1915

Why hype is not there about kz type c cable with integrated dac ?
I saw couple of goid things about it and it would be more useful as every brand is ditching jack


----------



## noobandroid

manjunath1915 said:


> Why hype is not there about kz type c cable with integrated dac ?
> I saw couple of goid things about it and it would be more useful as every brand is ditching jack


i ordered one and the zsn together, awaiting arrival


----------



## Cyanogenmoded

manjunath1915 said:


> Why hype is not there about kz type c cable with integrated dac ?
> I saw couple of goid things about it and it would be more useful as every brand is ditching jack



Nobody wants to embrace a future without jack :/ atleast i don't want to have extra battery drain and not be able to enjoy music whilst i charge.


----------



## crabdog

SybilLance said:


> Another great review, @crabdog and a helpful one because of your uniquely personal solution to the apparent fit problem. May I ask if, with the substitute cable, does the straight connector project from the notch above your tragus almost parallel to the ground? If it does the same might work for me and my small ears, too.
> 
> Are the eartips you used in listening to the BA10 your usual wide-bore ones (same with the ZSN and AS10)? You didn't try the Slater mod as Doc did?
> 
> ...


Thanks for reading and also the feedback.

Yes, with the straight connector it is almost parallel just as you describe. 

Yes, I used my usual tips; in fact, after changing the cable I found that several types of tips worked just fine. The problem was not with the insertion depth, nozzle length or tips, it was purely the unnatural angle caused by the stock cable and shape of my ears.

No, I did not try the mod. First of all, I think the majority of my readers have no interest in street mods - they just want to buy and enjoy. Secondly, if it were that easy to drastically improve the majority of IEMs then the real audio engineers must have serious hearing problems or are getting paid way to much and taking too long/costing too much for R&D. If it were that easy to fix every IEM then there should be no reason for a bad one to be released, ever.

Sorry, I can't advise you on the ZS10 as I haven't' heard that. If I had to choose between AS10 and BA10 purely on the sound I would go with the BA10. Good luck with your choice!


----------



## SybilLance

crabdog said:


> Thanks for reading and also the feedback.
> 
> Yes, with the straight connector it is almost parallel just as you describe.
> 
> ...



Thanks again! And I wish it were just so easy to place those 5 BAs into something as straight comfy as the ZSN housing.


On one hand, the AS10 and BA10 will be on sale this 12.12 along with several other related items I'm considering. 

On the other my husband smilingly says a few $ to the total amount and we could have the stellar $99 JDS Labs Atom headphone amplifier.


----------



## Luxed

manjunath1915 said:


> Why hype is not there about kz type c cable with integrated dac ?
> I saw couple of goid things about it and it would be more useful as every brand is ditching jack


No, thank you  I use a DAP to listen to music, not my phone. And I am not ready to use a cable with a ridiculously tiny DAC (and Amp?). If I'm wired I want the best sound possible or else I'll just go with Bluetooth.
And also, it is not because a trend is being embraced that it is a good one.


----------



## crabdog

SybilLance said:


> Thanks again! And I wish it were just so easy to place those 5 BAs into something as straight comfy as the ZSN housing.
> 
> 
> On one hand, the AS10 and BA10 will be on sale this 12.12 along with several other related items I'm considering.
> ...


Yeah, fair enough but what DAC would you use to feed it and what IEMs/headphones do you have now?


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 3, 2018)

crabdog said:


> Yeah, fair enough but what DAC would you use to feed it and what IEMs/headphones do you have now?



My husband has the Cayin N5iiS to go with the Topping NX4 DSD, both given by his brother. I have my Cayin N3/Topping NX4 combo which used to be his. With our respective gear we both listen to the HiFiMAN HE-400i (actually his that I borrow occasionally) for serious music.

In addition he has his Simgots (EM1, EM3 and EN700 Pro) while I have my KZs, QKZ DM300, Ostry KC06, Sennheiser IE80 and Philips SHP9500 (the latter 3 also used to be his). He also has this secretive grin which means he's been saving up for the HiFiMAN Ananda he can't stop talking about, which also means the HE-400i will be mine.

Yes, hand-me-downs I know but I'm not complaining.

The Atom is the dream amp he's settled on, in lieu of the Topping DX3s (a DAC/Amp) after amirm over at ASR tested and reviewed both; aside from being cheaper by far the Atom is TOTL transparent.

Edit:
Li'l ol' me totally forgot about the QKZ DM300 so it's here now.


----------



## mbwilson111

SybilLance said:


> My husband has the Cayin N5iiS to go with the Topping NX4 DSD, both given by his brother. I have my Cayin N3/Topping NX4 combo which used to be his. With our respective gear we both listen to the HiFiMAN HE-400i (actually his that I borrow occasionally) for serious music.
> 
> In addition he has his Simgots (EM1, EM3 and EN700 Pro) while I have my KZs, Ostry KC06, Sennheiser IE80 and Philips SHP9500 (the latter 3 also used to be his). He also has this secretive grin which means he's been saving up for the HiFiMAN Ananda he can't stop talking about, which also means the HE-400i will be mine.
> 
> ...



Do we have another Headfi couple here?   You should fill out your profile... it sounds like it will grow....


----------



## SybilLance

mbwilson111 said:


> Do we have another Headfi couple here?   You should fill out your profile... it sounds like it will grow....



Lol. I'm afraid no, but I sure wish we are. My husband came here years ago and like the geek he is asked a newbie question first time and got peppered with snark, snide and shade. He never got over it, I think, by the way he tells that story. 

He's over there at ASR now.

I love it here, though.


----------



## Conest

SybilLance said:


> I love it here, though.


+1 
They helped me a lot in choosing my first IEMs...


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Do we have another Headfi couple here?   You should fill out your profile... it sounds like it will grow....


My wife is a head-fi watcher, she just watches my every move and purchase.   I'm watching you!


----------



## mbwilson111

SybilLance said:


> Lol. I'm afraid no, but I sure wish we are. My husband came here years ago and like the geek he is asked a newbie question first time and got peppered with snark, snide and shade. He never got over it, I think, by the way he tells that story.
> 
> He's over there at ASR now.
> 
> I love it here, though.



That's shame the he was not treated well here.  I think we should always be kind to newcomers.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> My wife is a head-fi watcher, she just watches my every move and purchase.   I'm watching you!




Haha... that is sometimes how I find out that something is on the way here... couples just need to be honest with each other.


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> My wife is a head-fi watcher, she just watches my every move and purchase.   I'm watching you!


she probably has seen this comment too..


----------



## 1clearhead

So, has anyone here purchase the Bluetooth wireless cable made specifically for the ZSN, yet?...are they any good?


----------



## 1clearhead

Conest said:


> she probably has seen this comment too..


...now she did!


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> ...now she did!


You're on your own..


----------



## 1clearhead

Conest said:


> You're on your own..


My kids to the rescue...!


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> My kids to the rescue...!


----------



## maxxevv

SybilLance said:


> Lol. I'm afraid no, but I sure wish we are. My husband came here years ago and like the geek he is asked a newbie question first time and got peppered with snark, snide and shade. He never got over it, I think, by the way he tells that story.
> 
> He's over there at ASR now.
> 
> I love it here, though.



I think its got a lot to do with which thread you jump into for starters over here in HF. 
There are some threads which still have some snarky elements. Though nowhere near as bad as quite a few over at another forum. 

Over at ASR, the folks there tend to be more technical, and are often quite willing to share their technical knowledge. There are little bits of jesting but mostly with regards to insider jokes but nothing personal. 
If your hubbs like delving into technical details and their understanding, I can see why he likes it over there. Its generally less "emotional", though technical discourses at times can get heated but thankfully level headed as far as I have seen.


----------



## chickenmoon

Wrong thread, sorry, damn tabs.


----------



## crabdog

SybilLance said:


> My husband has the Cayin N5iiS to go with the Topping NX4 DSD, both given by his brother. I have my Cayin N3/Topping NX4 combo which used to be his. With our respective gear we both listen to the HiFiMAN HE-400i (actually his that I borrow occasionally) for serious music.
> 
> In addition he has his Simgots (EM1, EM3 and EN700 Pro) while I have my KZs, Ostry KC06, Sennheiser IE80 and Philips SHP9500 (the latter 3 also used to be his). He also has this secretive grin which means he's been saving up for the HiFiMAN Ananda he can't stop talking about, which also means the HE-400i will be mine.
> 
> ...


It sounds like he's made up his mind already haha. The Atom should be a good match for the headphones you listed.


----------



## khighly

1clearhead said:


> So, has anyone here purchase the Bluetooth wireless cable made specifically for the ZSN, yet?...are they any good?


Bought it, have not received yet. Will update when I receive it. Not expecting anything fantastic to be honest.


----------



## 1clearhead

khighly said:


> Bought it, have not received yet. Will update when I receive it. Not expecting anything fantastic to be honest.


Thanks!...Keep me posted!


----------



## loomisjohnson

mbwilson111 said:


> That's shame the he was not treated well here.  I think we should always be kind to newcomers.


sybillance, please ask your husband to come back--this is a very welcoming group


----------



## manjunath1915

Received zsn gave listening on axon 7 and ipad pro
I hav used zs5 es3 es4 atr einsear t2
Its better than es4 in resolution and bass slam
But es4 is soothing just doesnt seem harsh at any region
Also eartips are verygood on zsn
Was using spinfit cp240 on es4 and zsn tip feels better to me
Zs5 sound signature isnt for me
But its sound stage is very wide and resolution is very good but i feel it lacks bass especially on my gear


----------



## canzz

Slater said:


> What sound signature do you like?
> 
> More v shaped? More neutral?
> 
> ...



I tried the ZS6 before and even though I loved to listen classical music with it, it was too bright to be my daily driver. 

I really liked the ES3s signature and wanted to ask here if there is anything similar to it that i should try, from the new models they introduced like AS10 

Cable preference, budget are not so important


----------



## CoiL (Dec 3, 2018)

manjunath1915 said:


> Its better than es4 in resolution and bass slam


Agreed.


manjunath1915 said:


> But es4 is soothing just doesnt seem harsh at any region


Agreed. But overall SQ is noticeably better with ZSN.


manjunath1915 said:


> Zs5 sound signature isnt for me
> But its sound stage is very wide and resolution is very good but i feel it lacks bass especially on my gear


ZS5 need amping (v1 at least).
For me, ZS5v1 (properly amped) seems still littlebit better in SQ than ZSN atm. Will hear if things change after some longer listening and playtime.
Atm, with short listening, I felt that with ZSN, guitars lacked littlebit weight and natural tone in upper mids/lower highs and cymbals seem to be still "too BA sounding" with little lack in dynamics and natural tone.
One thing sure - IT01 modded sounds still another league to me. Amazing what one dynamic driver can do.


----------



## manjunath1915 (Dec 3, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Agreed. But overall SQ is noticeably better with ZSN.
> 
> ...


Planning to buy it01
Initially was planning on tfz king pro
But it has qc issues it seems many complaints of one side failure
Waiting for type c cable will try kz zs5 with that if it seems a proper match since my axon 7 has slightly higher output impedance
Actually i stress on sound signature and what iem sound makes me surprise to say its good iem and not microdetails
If microdetails all r present but signature is bad then its bad iem pointing at tinaudio t2 etc
Its actually music producer intention to make some microdetail sounds to be less heard and its not ideal too to upbring those microdetails sometimes
So i think zsn is good iem but not upto its hype based on hype i was expecting a lot of improvement over es4
So i will be searching for better iem again lol
Bass presence should vibrate the canal (havent experienced yet but zsn is good) vocals should be thick and lovely treble should shine but not overwhelm especially i hate pronunciated cymbals soundstage should be pretty good like or more than zs5 level and resolution more than average like zsn is enough


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> On one hand, the AS10 and BA10 will be on sale this 12.12 along with several other related items I'm considering.


Is 12/12 an Aliexpress sale or...?


----------



## CoiL

manjunath1915 said:


> Planning to buy it01
> Initially was planning on tfz king pro
> But it has qc issues it seems many complaints of one side failure


For what it matters, by impressions/reviews I have read about King Pro, IT01 modded should sound similar and King Pro is regarded slightly better than IT01. No idea though, haven`t tried it myself.
But I have also read about quality problems with Pro and iBasso customer support is top-notch and fast. That`s why I went with IT01.


manjunath1915 said:


> Waiting for type c cable will try kz zs5 with that if it seems a proper match since my axon 7 has slightly higher output impedance


ZS5v1 needs <0.5Ohm output impedance source and enough mA to feed all those drivers in parallel.


----------



## manjunath1915

Thats my pretty long post on headfi uff
Wasnt posting many but i thought its better to post so not to be misled by hype train
But zsn is pretty good lol


----------



## Podster

For my old ears the ZS4, ZS6 and ZSN's all sound better amped (JDS C421 in this case) especially out of iDevices but of course YMMV


----------



## mbwilson111

I have two ZSN.  The Purple and the Cyan.  I bought the Cyan so I would have a backup but I would like to get a balanced cable for it.  Two of my daps have balanced output.  Because the connectors are different on the ZSN I am wondering if I will have to wait for KZ to make a balanced cable for it.


----------



## assassin10000

mbwilson111 said:


> I have two ZSN.  The Purple and the Cyan.  I bought the Cyan so I would have a backup but I would like to get a balanced cable for it.  Two of my daps have balanced output.  Because the connectors are different on the ZSN I am wondering if I will have to wait for KZ to make a balanced cable for it.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ated-Gold-Cable-2Pin-Upgrade/32812293477.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...2pin-Silver-Plated-Cable-For/32896414780.html

I'm sure there's more, but found those really easily.


----------



## Mellowship

In da house!


----------



## khighly

loomisjohnson said:


> sybillance, please ask your husband to come back--this is a very welcoming group


Only here in the KZ thread though . The rest of head-fi is pretty mediocre and full of pseudoscientific delusions of grandeur and 'pleb-fi' bashing.


----------



## Slater (Dec 3, 2018)

assassin10000 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ated-Gold-Cable-2Pin-Upgrade/32812293477.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...2pin-Silver-Plated-Cable-For/32896414780.html
> 
> I'm sure there's more, but found those really easily.



That’s not specifically designed for the ZSN. The ZSN uses a new style of cable.

Hopefully KZ makes a balanced version soon.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 3, 2018)

khighly said:


> Only here in the KZ thread though . The rest of head-fi is pretty mediocre and full of pseudoscientific delusions of grandeur and 'pleb-fi' bashing.



Khighly, you crack me up (the "pseudoscientific delusions" can be plentiful from time to time).


Fellow KZers, any feedback would be appreciated. 

When I consider that KZ will likely move forward with releasing more multi-BA in-ears I figure it is time that I hunt for another DAP for my small collection. I am currently in search of an excellent DAP with excellent features.


Most important features:

- Low output impedance  (preferably below 1Ω)

- Enough power for full size cans (though 90% use will be IEMs)

- Album Art capable (necessary - my Vivaldi and Bach collections are huge and I've retitled many albums for simplifying the catalogue shortcomings on my old skool Fiio X3(i). Identifying albums by their artwork keeps things simple)

- On-the-fly playlist capability

- Warm-leaning/Velvet-like detail (I prefer great synergy with bright-leaning IEMs)

I am mostly looking for good synergy with the KZ (bright-leaning) lineup.
I don't usually use EQ but the Cowon and Lotoo are tempting. (Oops, can't do Lotoo, no album art)

Currently considering these two warm-leaning DAPs:

Cowon PM2 ($400)


Spoiler













 

Fill X5iii ($360+/-)


Spoiler



Fiio X5iii headphone out specifications (3.5mm headphone out jack)
Output power 1≥480 mW（16Ω / THD+N＜1%)
Output impedance＜1Ω (32Ω loaded)
Output power 2≥250 mW（32Ω /THD+N＜1%)
Channel separation＞73 dB (1 kHz)
Output power 3≥28 mW（300Ω / THD+N＜1%)
THD+N＜0.003% (1 kHz)
Frequency response5 Hz~55 kHz（-3dB）
Peak output voltage＞8 Vp-pSNR≥115 dB (A-weighted)
Max. output current 250mA (For reference)




 


 

Bluetooth, DSD and Wi-Fi are unimportant to me. I only do hardwired IEMs and the majority of my music collection is ripped from CD to FLAC, WAV, M4A or MP3(320kbps) format.

My current Fiio X3(i) works fine but I'm a sucker for a larger and brighter display of album art and more streamlined access to the music files.
That said, any other suggestions in the sub $400 range would be highly appreciated. 

Thanks, in advance!

Doc


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ated-Gold-Cable-2Pin-Upgrade/32812293477.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...2pin-Silver-Plated-Cable-For/32896414780.html
> 
> I'm sure there's more, but found those really easily.



Those will work with almost any KZ other than the ZSN.  The will have to make more cables for it... I hope they do.

This seems to be the only aftermarket KZ ZSN cable at the moment..

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...de-KZ-ZSN-Dedicated-Earphone/32951402964.html

Besides having the correct connector, I would also like it to be copper, not silver.


----------



## Mellowship

Did I read something lately about topping amps and DIY cables and KZ earphones?


 

Man, this sounds sweet!


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> That’s not specifically designed for the ZSN. The ZSN uses a new style of cable.
> 
> Hopefully KZ makes a balanced version soon.



I see. That connector is reminds me of the UE one.



Spoiler



From this shop: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/804746?spm=2114.12010108.0.0.9cd55d3843GaVj

Looks like they can do custom cables if needed.


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> I see. That connector is reminds me of the UE one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think I will have to wait for KZ to do one if they ever do.  I am not going to pay to have a custom cable made for a $14 iem.  I don't really NEED a balanced cable for it.  I would try it if I could get one for less than the iem cost   It is possible that the ZSN would not even benefit from the balanced output.


----------



## assassin10000

mbwilson111 said:


> I think I will have to wait for KZ to do one if they ever do.  I am not going to pay to have a custom cable made for a $14 iem.  I don't really NEED a balanced cable for it.  I would try it if I could get one for less than the iem cost   It is possible that the ZSN would not even benefit from the balanced output.



Completely understandable. It may already be in the works, since they already do a regular upgrade cable and a bluetooth adapter.


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is 12/12 an Aliexpress sale or...?



"12.12" as a Sale tag is used by Lazada.com.ph and Shopee.ph here. AliExpress simply has "Christmas Sale" in its app banners, so far.

I have apps for all 3 in my phone.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Took the Trn BT20 to work today.  Paired it with KZ ZS10. Start work at 8am, but use the radio till 9am. At 9am, when I get to my first stop.  I popped the KZs into my ears and went to streaming the show via App. At 10am, when the radio program was over I started playing my music.  Played various mp3 320 and flac  files until 4:30pm, when I pulled up in my driveway.  7.5 hours and still going.  That's a good sign.  Also did not drop once the entire day. Out of the standby time actual play time was about 7 hours.  I am really friggen happy so far with BT20.

Zs10 paired up very nicely with BT20. Sufficient power.  Was at 70% volume  all day,  and that was plenty loud.  I think this is a good pairing,  but admittedly I have to eq zs10. I am thinking I will pair ES4 with them tomorrow.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 3, 2018)

I just got the Type A - KZ Copper/Silver mix cable in the mail from JimHCK. That's the one that some say was out of phase, I believe.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm supposed to hear if it's out of phase. I know someone said it's supposed to sound 'out of your head' and not inside. But it's really hard to tell so I will assume mine are in phase?

I do know that the KZ 8 core silver cable sounds better (and is made 2-3x better) but it's brighter and this Type A Copper/Silver mix is warmer. This cable is almost like a side grade? Maybe it's out of phase?


----------



## assassin10000

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not exactly sure what I'm supposed to hear if it's out of phase. I know someone said it's supposed to sound 'out of your head' and not inside. But it's really hard to tell so I will assume mine are in phase?



Once you know what in and out of phase sounds like you can pick it out. There are a few short and easy to find videos on youtube which will play in and out of phase and from both left and right channels so you can zero in on it. Use a known good pair of phones first then swap out to check.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

A reviewer on Gearbest said the Tyrian Purple ZSN has, "sound quality comparable to about 200 or 300 dollars." I haven't heard it yet but I think the purple color has made them go cuckoo! Cuckoo!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 3, 2018)

assassin10000 said:


> Once you know what in and out of phase sounds like you can pick it out. There are a few short and easy to find videos on youtube which will play in and out of phase and from both left and right channels so you can zero in on it. Use a known good pair of phones first then swap out to check.


I think you're right my Type A KZ cable from JimHCK is out of phase. Thanks for suggesting I check out those videos.

I personally don't think most people can tell it's of phase. The sound sounds like it's pushed up and to the sides instead of to the centre. 

No wonder I think this cable is a side grade/down grade. It doesn't sound good at all.


----------



## Luxed (Dec 3, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think you're right my Type A KZ cable from JimHCK is out of phase. Thanks for suggesting I check out those videos.
> 
> I personally don't think most people can tell it's of phase. The sound sounds like it's pushed up and to the sides instead of to the centre.
> 
> No wonder I think this cable is a side grade/down grade. It doesn't sound good at all.


This has been linked already and seems to be a good enough test:


I thought my Silver/Coper cable was out of phase but actually it was only molded backwards. So they work but won't fit all the way.

EDIT: And of course I reply to a message that I didn't read since you already figured out that it's out of phase... Classic me


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A reviewer on Gearbest said the Tyrian Purple ZSN has, "sound quality comparable to about 200 or 300 dollars." I haven't heard it yet but I think the purple color has made them go cuckoo! Cuckoo!



Does it feel nicer to get something that feels $200-$300 for less than $20 than vice versa?

I surely ordered my ZSN, must be worth it for this feeling alone


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 3, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> sybillance, please ask your husband to come back--this is a very welcoming group



Yes, I agree this thread is for the most part hospitable and courteous although occasionally I come across people who are snarky, dismissive or downright boorish.

As for my husband he has no plans of ever coming back. Suffice it to say he has a postgraduate degree in a field of study that makes him eminently qualified to discuss most of the topics over there at ASR.

And @loomisjohnson I now know why you seem so familiar. After my response to crabdog's post, this morning I decided to re-organize the drawer where I keep my IEMS and near the bottom pushed to a corner was the QKZ DM300, in its Batman case.





I had totally forgotten it, my second in-ear buy (1st the KZ ATE) after I read it about it in the site aproear. You were part of aproear and your positive confirmation made me want it. 

Sadly aproear seems unavailable now. It presented all the earphones reviewed in a nice, tabular, logical manner. Everything is ordinally accessible at a touch according to feature/characteristic.

Listening to Basia thru it on my iPhone now. Mmmmy! I remember it described as the "ZSR on steroids". Funny thing, memory.

PS
That reminds me to edit my earlier post.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Luxed said:


> This has been linked already and seems to be a good enough test:
> 
> 
> I thought my Silver/Coper cable was out of phase but actually it was only molded backwards. So they work but won't fit all the way.
> ...



Sorry if I sound dumb... even though I'm pretty sure mine is out of phase because it sounds really bad (in a broken way) compared to other cables.

How do we tell it's out of phase from this video? I still don't understand the exact point that's supposed to happen.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 4, 2018)

...Don't mind me, not important.


----------



## bedlamite (Dec 3, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A reviewer on Gearbest said the Tyrian Purple ZSN has, "sound quality comparable to about 200 or 300 dollars." I haven't heard it yet but I think the purple color has made them go cuckoo! Cuckoo!


Typical audio hyperbole, methinks. Admittedly my ZSNs are the cyan version with the "inferior" cable, but I have a silver cable from KZ as well, and the ZSNs fall well behind my IT-03s. Detail retrieval is superior on the IT-03, then again at more than 10x the price you'd expect that.

Tamper your expectations, the ZSNs are still an excellent buy for the price (the Xiaomi Pistons used to be my default recommendation for budget buds but the ZSNs have now replaced them) but $300 IEM killers? lol no


----------



## Luxed

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Sorry if I sound dumb... even though I'm pretty sure mine is out of phase because it sounds really bad (in a broken way) compared to other cables.
> 
> How do we tell it's out of phase from this video? I still don't understand the exact point that's supposed to happen.


Simply put, when a driver is out of phase, the sound will come from behind you or above you or it will just "sound weird".
If you are still not sure you can take a piece of equipment that you know works and listen to the video.
Then when you try the cable you think is out of phase, the sections in the video labeled "out of phase" should be the sections that sound "good" or "normal".
This isn't something that can be described but I think anyone can hear a difference.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

A person commented on youtube that the ZSN tuning is a RevoNext QT2 ripoff? Any comments?


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The sound sounds like it's pushed up and to the sides instead of to the centre.



Now you know what I meant when I said out of your head vs in your head. Hard to explain in words, but once you hear the difference for yourself it's like ah-ha!


----------



## Slater

SybilLance said:


> Sadly aproear seems unavailable now. It presented all the earphones reviewed in a nice, tabular, logical manner. Everything is ordinally accessible at a touch according to feature/characteristic.



Nooooooooooo 

That's a tragedy. It's still relevant info.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 4, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> Did I read something lately about topping amps and DIY cables and KZ earphones?
> 
> 
> 
> Man, this sounds sweet!



Echo that. Again. Once more. Twice, for the second time around. 

Oh dear, I'm so enthusiastic about Topping products and the KZs I have I'm afraid I might be mistaken for a shill.

Indeed KZ earphones sound great through Topping amps—the more exceptional being the ZS5v1 as Coil said, and the ZS6 of course. Mustn't forget the ZSN.

Here's Rudolph sweetly enjoying _Cousin_ _Dupree_ from Steely Dan's _Two_ _Against_ _Nature_ (Giant Records, 2000) through the N3–>NX4–>ZS5v1:






Notes:
Setup—Cayin N3 Super Slow filter, no EQ, low gain, line out to Topping NX4 amp low gain, bass boost off, phone out to KZ ZS5v1 with KZ silver upgrade cable and bullet foam tips.

Music—_Two Against Nature _by Steely Dan won the 2001 Grammy Awards for Album of the Year & Best Engineered Album, Non-Classical, among others. _Cousin_ _Dupree _incidentally was one of the program materials in Dr. Sean Olive's research on effect of cultural differences in taste, listening experience and age in headphone preference as he presented in the PDF Perception and Measurement of Headphones. The latter is an overview of the various research studies he and his colleagues at Harman have done on the subject for the past 5 years or so. Does "Harman Preferred Target Response Curve" ring any bells?

—That red, envious in-ear at Rudolph's foot sticking out of its Batman case is the QKZ DM300.


----------



## NeonHD

*KZ EDR1 UNBOXING AND REVIEW*​





Woo KZ EDR1 came today 

Because I sold my previous pair an year ago, this now counts as my 2nd pair of the EDR1.






First off the packaging seems to be updated to KZ's contemporary white box, ditching the old dark indigo-colored cardboard box that came with my old EDR1.













The second thing that seems to have changed is the color. The EDR1 is now sporting a new gunmetal grey look which I really love. Note that the photos make the EDR1 look like silver, but it is actually grey.

I don't think I did a proper sound analysis on the EDR1 so here goes nothing:

*SOUND ANALYSIS

*​
*Bass:*

The EDR1's bass response is primarily fixated on its mid-bass. That's not a bad thing as it gives some tracks some well-needed warmth and makes you feel cozy without ever being too bloaty or excessive. It's very similar to the bass response on the ED3c, albeit a bit more balanced.

*Mids:*

The mids are a bit recessed, making some songs sound a bit hollow and caved in. However moving past 2khz there is a nice emphasis on high-mids that gives female vocals a touch of clarity. 

*Treble:*

Moving past the high-mids we journey onto the treble. From here on it's a fairly safe journey, as the treble is soft and inoffensive. Even though it's not the brightest, the treble extends decently to give you a very subtle sense of airiness. Overall very balanced.

*Soundstage and Imaging:*

I mean, it's okay. You're not gonna get a massive soundstage like on the KZ ED9 or QT2, but at least the sounds don't feel cramped or cluttered together. There's simply nothing remarkable about the EDR1 in this area, but it's not bad and meets the requirements.

*Verdict*​
Overall for $3 during the 11.11 sale, buying the EDR1 requires zero thinking. If you want the cheapest earphone ever without sacrificing sound quality, the EDR1 is a no-brainer.


----------



## Mellowship

SybilLance said:


> Echo that. Again. Once more. Twice, for the second time around.
> 
> Oh dear, I'm so enthusiastic about Topping products and the KZs I have I'm afraid I might be mistaken for a shill.
> 
> ...



There's a lot of Xmas spirit going on, eh?  Rudolph's a lucky champ! 
Indeed the ZS5v1 has some new tricks up its sleeve when properly amped. 
See you got a blue one too. My blue ZS5v1 was losing its colour over time, so I turned it black by stripping its very thin and cheap paintjob with some 97% ethanol. My gray one is keeping its coat though. 
I didn't listen to the ZSN unamped yet. When I unboxed it yesterday, I just plugged it into what I had hanging around, which was the FiiO/Topping combo. It is too soon for my first impressions, but it sounded very sweet and engaging. Listened to Lhasa de Sela's "La Llorona" and to Andrew Bird's "The Mysterious Production of Eggs", and boy did they sound right!  
Again, indeed, Steely Dan and their engineering mastery (sorcery?) produced some of the best sounding albums of all times.


----------



## CoiL

DocHoliday said:


> I hunt for another DAP for my small collection. I am currently in search of an excellent DAP with excellent features.
> 
> 
> Most important features:
> ...


Get used DX50 and mod it! You can get these used for quite "small" money 
If You have money - iBasso DX120 

BTW guys! Want total purple IEM? Put ZST faceplates into ZSN - they fit like a glove! 
Did this for my wife christmas gift - totally purple ZSN. Now gotta find purple tips too ;D


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 4, 2018)

CoiL said:


> BTW guys! Want total purple IEM? Put ZST faceplates into ZSN - they fit like a glove!



But does the IEM ound like your ears are inside one?


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> BTW guys! Want total purple IEM? Put ZST faceplates into ZSN - they fit like a glove!
> Did this for my wife christmas gift - totally purple ZSN. Now gotta find purple tips too ;D



Photo(s) please.


----------



## chi-fi mel

MEL'S RULE: If you purchase 5 IEM's for $X each you are more likely to find what you like than buying one IEM for $5X.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> But does the IEM ound like your ears are inside one?


I haven`t tested noise isolation difference (there probably aren`t difference) and sound seemed to be same.
To me, those holes in metal faceplates don`t affect sound but I have to do more comparing to be sure.


SybilLance said:


> Photo(s) please.








Thing is... You just have to screw off ZSN plates, remove plates from ZST and push ZST plates inside ZSN shells, no glue even needed, fits tight and secure.


----------



## Mybutthurts

CoiL said:


> I haven`t tested noise isolation difference (there probably aren`t difference) and sound seemed to be same.
> To me, those holes in metal faceplates don`t affect sound but I have to do more comparing to be sure.
> 
> 
> ...



 Wonder it's looks as good with ZST black chequer board plate?


----------



## Leo-rume

Thing is... You just have to screw off ZSN plates, remove plates from ZST and push ZST plates inside ZSN shells, no glue even needed, fits tight and secure.[/QUOTE]

It looks much more gorgeous than I imagined it would be


----------



## dondonut

Slater said:


> I just got my purple/silver ZSN.
> 
> I have to say, I am beside myself. The ZSN is the best KZ I have heard to date.
> ...
> ...





dondonut said:


> Raving review Slater, your enthusiasm is infectious. I'm very curious as to how you think the purple and black compare,
> ...




Was wondering if you have received the black/black one yet and how you feel they compare to the purple/silver ones. Same goes for others, I'm curious on more input concerning the suggested cable difference as it still comes up now and then. 

In spite of the ZSN hype-train slowing down, I'm eagerly awaiting the black/black ZSN and curious to their sound and how they compare to the BQ3.  I do really prefer the look of the copper cable over the one supplied with the black / cyan version (and the silver replacement cable), but I really prefer the black / cyan housing over the purple silver.. choices!


----------



## CoiL

I will be doing wooden backplates for my cyan ZSN soon and will take copper cable for myself (if it measures noticeably better than black one).


----------



## eclein

My FiiO M7 is a work in progress, having a helluva time getting music onto the new 256 gb mini sd card. Sometimes no problem other times only folders transfer no music in them. Then the ghosting starts....so I copy and paste content that’s missing from a folder only to have “duplicates “ should replace or skip...ahhhhh its blank how could something be there. I’m haunted ? So trying different mini sd card adapters after newest one started not being seen at all in my mac (which I’m sorta new using).......oh and the firmware has bugs, lotsa bugs, BUT my BA10s sound even better using the M7 as Bluetooth/amp with Spotify. They sound smooth, detailed, just flipping excellent.....you just have to deal with the pure girth of the iems!!

They flatout sounded better than my now sold U4SE’s.....which were just under $500. I may be old and gray but at $80ish they are my favs!
Does any of that make sense..lol..lol.. I’ll try not to rave anymore about these, its just they really kick!


----------



## TeaCake (Dec 4, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Photo(s) please.





CoiL said:


> I haven`t tested noise isolation difference (there probably aren`t difference) and sound seemed to be same.
> To me, those holes in metal faceplates don`t affect sound but I have to do more comparing to be sure.
> 
> 
> ...



Now all we need is a purple cable...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 4, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Thing is... You just have to screw off ZSN plates, remove plates from ZST and push ZST plates inside ZSN shells, no glue even needed, fits tight and secure



Oh wow!  I wonder if my husband would like to trade faceplates.  Will the ZSN plate fit on the ZST?  What about that lettering?  Can it be easily polished off?  The ZST is not destroyed is it?




LaughMoreDaily said:


> A person commented on youtube that the ZSN tuning is a RevoNext QT2 ripoff? Any comments?



How could someone ever say a tuning is a ripoff?  Maybe he just meant they sounded similar to him?  I have not heard anyone else say they sounded similar.  They don't to me.  I had a QT2 but traded it away as I had trouble getting a comfortable fit.



1clearhead said:


> You can always try buying a 3.5mm to 2.5mm jack (audio adapter plug)...only if KZ decided not to even make a balanced cable for the ZSN.
> 
> 
> 
> -Clear




Those adapters are for making a 3.5mm *balanced cable* fit into a 2.5mm balanced source.   You cannot change single ended to balanced with such an adapter.   The two grounds from each channel are already together at the 3.5mm plug end.  The adapter cannot separate them.  It might be possible to re-terminate the end of the cable with a 2.5mm *balanced* plug but only if the two ground wires have been left separate.  You would find out after opening the end.


----------



## Conest

dondonut said:


> In spite of the ZSN hype-train slowing down, I'm eagerly awaiting the black/black ZSN and curious to their sound and how they compare to the BQ3.  I do really prefer the look of the copper cable over the one supplied with the black / cyan version (and the silver replacement cable), but I really prefer the black / cyan housing over the purple silver.. choices!


I dont think Hype is going down... People are just too busy listening to them.. rather than commenting here..  (eagerly waiting for my Purple/ Silver ZSNs)


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A reviewer on Gearbest said the Tyrian Purple ZSN has, "sound quality comparable to about 200 or 300 dollars." I haven't heard it yet but I think the purple color has made them go cuckoo! Cuckoo!


Well,  It is a bold statement, but it is possible someone spent 200 on an IEM 3-4 years ago, and then bought a ZSN just now,  and thinks its better.  I have and have had some 200 dollar IEMs that don't impress me as much as ZSN does.  This hobby has excelled at a hyper pace the last couple years especially ChiFi.

Could also be, and probably is,  nothing more then diarrhea of the mouth.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 4, 2018)

Those adapters are for making a 3.5mm *balanced cable* fit into a 2.5mm balanced source.   You cannot change single ended to balanced with such an adapter.   The two grounds from each channel are already together at the 3.5mm plug end.  The adapter cannot separate them.  It might be possible to re-terminate the end of the cable with a 2.5mm *balanced* plug but only if the two ground wires have been left separate.  You would find out after opening the end.[/QUOTE]

True...after reviewing what I wrote, I was referring to a balanced line output (not earphone output), which was probably a 3.5 stereo output anyway. ...Ignore my comment.

Thanks for clearing my senses back into place!


----------



## CoiL

mbwilson111 said:


> Oh wow!  I wonder if my husband would like to trade faceplates.  Will the ZSN plate fit on the ZST?  What about that lettering?  Can it be easily polished off?  The ZST is not destroyed is it?


ZSN plates fit quite well into ZST shells but You need to grind/sand off little edge at connector location to "snap into place".
ZST text is best removed chemically. Will let You know what works best and how to do it as I plan to remove it also.
ZST is not destroyed if You know how to "break off" faceplates with proper tool and move.


----------



## dondonut (Dec 4, 2018)

Conest said:


> I dont think Hype is going down... People are just too busy listening to them.. rather than commenting here..  (eagerly waiting for my Purple/ Silver ZSNs)



Hah don't get me wrong, I don't see that as a bad thing at all. Generally I don't appreciate products being overly hyped. I feel that during hypes people are often biased because of the hype and tend to reinforce each other's opinions too much, resulting in skewed expectations.  Good thing this thread, and other threads (even other forums) have thousands of posts so with some effort you can read between the lines to assess if the hyped product is for you. Nevertheless, I still am very sensitive to hyped products (and Im sure I contribute to hypes as well)


----------



## Conest

dondonut said:


> Hah don't get me wrong, I don't see that as a bad thing as all. Generally I don't appreciate products being overly hyped. I feel that during hypes people are often biased because of the hype and tend to reinforce each other's opinions too much, resulting in skewed expectations.  Good thing this thread, and other threads (even other forums) have thousands of posts so with some effort you can read between the lines to assess if the hyped product is for you. Nevertheless, I still am very sensitive to hyped products (and Im sure I contribute to hypes as well)


Yea.. i think some Criticism is necessary...
It'll help them make better product for us...
Btw dont go on Youtube .. those guys are comparing ZSN to Apple Earpods


----------



## Conest

CoiL said:


> ZSN plates fit quite well into ZST shells but You need to grind/sand off little edge at connector location to "snap into place".
> ZST text is best removed chemically. Will let You know what works best and how to do it as I plan to remove it also.
> ZST is not destroyed if You know how to "break off" faceplates with proper tool and move.


BRUTAL..


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 4, 2018)

I personally wouldn't refer to it as a hype, but a "reality check" when the majority that owns a ZSN speaks out on their own accord.
For a family man, It does save me from spending $200 to $300 US dollars, though! 

I say they are pretty good just like many of you that vouched for them! ...So, the majority wins! 




-Clear


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Khighly, you crack me up (the "pseudoscientific delusions" can be plentiful from time to time).
> 
> 
> Fellow KZers, any feedback would be appreciated.
> ...



Had been meaning to get back to you with my $.02 Doc but was side tracked and at my age it often happens when I simply turn around  My money would be with the FiiO as some of the most solid product from any maker, my X3ii is still one of my faves but everything they build is top notch IMO and they have a little bit of that Energizer Battery thing going on With that said I'm sure you will enjoy whatever you decide on Not to forget where I am it seems the KZ Christmas offerings have started to arrive, my Brother-in-Law says he can't wait for Christmas because I always out do the pair I gave him the year before


----------



## eclein

Doc take M7 off your list if it was on it, mine is going back I think unless they fix this software......Podster I got my teeny tiny Red Benjie, small small, small!


----------



## Podster

eclein said:


> Doc take M7 off your list if it was on it, mine is going back I think unless they fix this software......Podster I got my teeny tiny Red Benjie, small small, small!



Yep, the S5 is absolutely a steal and I've discovered paired with the ZSN's it IMHO would be extremely hard to beat for <$40 shopped right, I'm giving this combo as 5-6 X-Mas gifts this year Gave my BFF back home in Austin last Spring Break a loaded up S5 with a my SW III's and he has not stopped raving about them so much so I've had to hook two maybe it's three of our other buddies up with them (they only got ZS6's and TFZ Series two) with theirs but still pleased as can be Very sorry to hear about your M7, beautiful player, seems that is what Brooko has


----------



## schom

i see you have the Benjie s5
i own it too and iam still waiting different colors (maybe blue or green). that would make the s5 more attractive.
yesterday i ordered the s8 and i hope that i will be a major upgrade to the s5.

after bad experience with the hiby r3  i will not order expensive hi-res player again. in many ways the benjie s5 is the best budget-player so far.
i pair it with the kz ba10. 
for perfect fit i recommend the the  OperaFactory OM1 upgrade cable. i promise you a perfect fit.


----------



## Mellowship

Conest said:


> I dont think Hype is going down... People are just too busy listening to them.. rather than commenting here..  (eagerly waiting for my Purple/ Silver ZSNs)


Had them on all morning. Astonishing how you forget you have them on, not only comfortwise but also how sweet they can sound. I'm glad I hopped the ZSN hype train, despite being somewhat suspicious at first. Considering on buying a 2nd pair already, just to have around...


----------



## Podster

schom said:


> i see you have the Benjie s5
> i own it too and iam still waiting different colors (maybe blue or green). that would make the s5 more attractive.
> yesterday i ordered the s8 and i hope that i will be a major upgrade to the s5.
> 
> ...



Heck, the rig on the right can be had for <$30 if shopped right and that's less than a fast food trip for a family of four 




 

THX for the info on the OM-1 cable


----------



## CoiL (Dec 4, 2018)

While I like solid build and good quality sound (though, slightly bright sided) from my QNGEE X2... I wish I had gone with Benjie S5. I probably will buy one anyway to pair with my workhorse cyan ZSN as workhorse DAP that I don`t have to baby like my precious modded DX50.

Will soon chime in about "burned in" purple ZSN vs. OOTB cyan ZSN, using same cable.
But I`m starting to hear BA calming down slightly and sound becoming more pleasant (no brain burn-in involved).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> While I like solid build and good quality sound (though, slightly bright sided) from my QNGEE X2... I wish I had gone with Benjie S5. I probably will buy one anyway to pair with my workhorse cyan ZSN as workhorse DAP that I don`t have to baby like my precious modded DX50.


I'm surprised you don't like the QNGEE... other than being bright (which is bad.) Why don't you like about it? The Benjie S5 is pretty amazing but if you don't need something compact there are a lot better choices. Apparently Benjie S5/Agptek M20 have newer versions now.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


>


Podstar, how did you dye your KZ 8 core cable from white to black?


----------



## CoiL (Dec 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm surprised *you don't like the QNGEE*... other than being bright (which is bad.) Why don't you like about it? The Benjie S5 is pretty amazing but if you don't need something compact there are a lot better choices. Apparently Benjie S5/Agptek M20 have newer versions now.


I did NOT say that...


CoiL said:


> While *I like* *solid build and good quality sound* (though, slightly bright sided) from my QNGEE X2...




Just that I`m afraid it won`t pair with ZSN as good as I hoped (due to ZSN BA nature added up to X2 "brightish" sound).


----------



## Podster (Dec 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Podstar, how did you dye your KZ 8 core cable from white to black?



I did not do that handy work, you will have to consult with Slater He has it down and it looks fantastic without the green oxidation/patina!

I also like what I call the Big Little Thump option (Benjie T6/Xduoo XQ-10) to a nice upgrade on just an S5 and still keep yo rig under $70/$80



 

Now I just need to send @Slater my old TFZ Series 1's and let him dye the greenest cable I've every experienced


----------



## Conest

So what would be the recommendation of you guys for a good DAP under 60$ - 80$ ?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

schom said:


> yesterday i ordered the s8 and i hope that i will be a major upgrade to the s5.
> 
> after bad experience with the hiby r3  i will not order expensive hi-res player again. in many ways the benjie s5 is the best budget-player so far.
> i pair it with the kz ba10.
> for perfect fit i recommend the the  OperaFactory OM1 upgrade cable. i promise you a perfect fit.


What's the difference between the S8 and S5 Benjie? Is it more than Bluetooth and a bigger screen? Is sound quality better, do you know? I guess you'll tell us when it arrives.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> So what would be the recommendation of you guys for a good DAP under 60$ - 80$ ?


Zishan Z2.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 4, 2018)

schom said:


> after bad experience with the hiby r3  i will not order expensive hi-res player again. in many ways the benjie s5 is the best budget-player so far.


That sounds very traumatic.  I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I don't want to re-traumatize you because the price is high ($229US online right now), but what happened? (It'll help me from wasting my money on one too )


----------



## Conest (Dec 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Zishan Z2.


or....? 
I was considering FiiO M3K first but if there is a better option.. I'm happy to look.. (since they dont allow manual equalization but i sent an email to fiio, said they'll include it in next update)
-good sound quality (not too bright)
-eq (Must)
-Portability
is all i need...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> Btw dont go on Youtube .. those guys are comparing ZSN to Apple Earpods


This guy does it... I love his reviews and everything about his videos. https://www.youtube.com/user/zpolt/videos

Any other fans?


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> This guy does it... I love his reviews and everything about his videos. https://www.youtube.com/user/zpolt/videos
> 
> Any other fans?


I am... Lol..
But i sleep everytime when i start a video from TechManz


----------



## Leo-rume

Mellowship said:


> Had them on all morning. Astonishing how you forget you have them on, not only comfortwise but also how sweet they can sound. I'm glad I hopped the ZSN hype train, despite being somewhat suspicious at first. Considering on buying a 2nd pair already, just to have around...



Are you using the stock tips with them? If not, what tips?


----------



## Conest

Deleted on purpose


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 4, 2018)

JimHCK wants me to send him a 'video' of my out of phase KZ copper/silver mix cable,

"Can you provide a video to our email? You can show the product problem in this video. After we confirm the product's problem, we'll help you."

How would you respond?

I thought Jim was a reliable seller? If he was, why would he be asking me for a video knowing full well I can't prove an out of phase cable?


----------



## Mellowship

Leo-rume said:


> Are you using the stock tips with them? If not, what tips?



No stock tips for most of my KZs. Using foam tips, t400 medium


Leo-rume said:


> Are you using the stock tips with them? If not, what tips?



Foam tips. T400. Medium.


----------



## Podster

Conest said:


> BRUTAL..



LOL, I don't generally brag about anyone out here but Coil has some mad skills when it comes to hand made mods If you have not perused his pics you should give it a go and go all the way back as he has made some KZ's absolute look stunning, I'd bet even KZ was impressed


----------



## Luxed

Conest said:


> -eq (Must)


May I ask you why EQ is so important? I haven't EQ'd any of my gear since I got my KZ zst pro. I had EQ on my Shure SE215 before that because they sound so boring. But the ZST make me appreciate what sound signature an IEM can have.
But I can see that many of you use an EQ and I'm wondering why?


----------



## Conest

Luxed said:


> May I ask you why EQ is so important? I haven't EQ'd any of my gear since I got my KZ zst pro. I had EQ on my Shure SE215 before that because they sound so boring. But the ZST make me appreciate what sound signature an IEM can have.
> But I can see that many of you use an EQ and I'm wondering why?


I think its good to have some control.. 
(And whatever iem i buy from now on, not gonna be disappointed that much)
I'm coming from Xiaomi Quantie 2 (Pro 2)..and. they are really good even without eq though..


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 4, 2018)

Luxed said:


> May I ask you why EQ is so important? I haven't EQ'd any of my gear since I got my KZ zst pro. I had EQ on my Shure SE215 before that because they sound so boring. But the ZST make me appreciate what sound signature an IEM can have.
> But I can see that many of you use an EQ and I'm wondering why?


I would ask,  why wouldn't you use eq?
Everybodys ears are different and every earphone is different, and every single genre of music is equed differently.

Eq allows tweaks to the sound that correct audio problems,  whether it's from biology or technology.

You know a 16 year old has different hearing then a 50 year old right? The older you get,  the less treble frequencies you hear. Adding them in via eq is a viable solution.

In my personal use,  I have headphones and earphone that will crush your soul and destroy your brain with 30db of subbass equed and a couple watts of power pushing air causing massive impact and slam to your head.  It's pretty fun.  Impossible to do without eq. 

It's always best to have all options on the table.


----------



## Conest

BadReligionPunk said:


> I would ask,  why wouldn't you use eq?
> Everybodys ears are different and every earphone is different, and every single genre of music is equed differently.
> 
> Eq allows tweaks to the sound that correct audio problems,  whether it's from biology or technology.
> ...


Thanks for putting it in better words...


----------



## Luxed

BadReligionPunk said:


> I would ask,  why wouldn't you use eq?
> Everybodys ears are different and every earphone is different, and every single genre of music is equed differently.
> 
> Eq allows tweaks to the sound that correct audio problems,  whether it's from biology or technology.
> ...


I think that answer is absolutely perfect 
And it makes me want to finally get a new DAP that has better EQ (or even that MSEB thing that looks pretty interesting).
But you made me realize that the real reason why I don't use EQ anymore may actually be because my Fiio X1 II doesn't give me any control. Whereas my old Sony Walkman had a really good "bass boost" option.
I hate those forums, it makes me want to buy stuff. (but I love you guys, so that's OK)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 4, 2018)

Is the KZ ZSR still worth buying if I'm already waiting for the ZSN, ZSA, ZS10 and AS10 to arrive?

(Already have: ATR, EDR1, ED7, ED16, ES4, ZS3, ZST)

The only reason I'm buying too many is not to listen to them but to burn them in. #KZHoarder

PS: If anyone has any questions about those, just ask!  I will answer when the knowledge strikes me.

PPS: AS10 is the last high end model I plan on buying from them. BA10 has bad reviews and is too expensive.


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the KZ ZSR still worth buying if I'm already waiting for the ZSN, ZSA, ZS10 and AS10 to arrive?
> 
> (Already have: ATR, EDR1, ED7, ED16, ES4, ZS3, ZST)
> 
> ...



Well don't give up on the BA10 so fast, I think I recently read somewhere that @crabdog found a great setup on the BA10, tips for sure and I think a cable change and he was given them better props I bet he might chime in with a little more detail on that


----------



## Slater (Dec 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> JimHCK wants me to send him a 'video' of my out of phase KZ copper/silver mix cable,
> 
> "Can you provide a video to our email? You can show the product problem in this video. After we confirm the product's problem, we'll help you."
> 
> ...



IMO, it would be best to send a video of the cable using a multimeter vs trying to ‘show’ the phase problem by playing audio.

That’s at least how I would do it. Others may have a better idea.


----------



## Makahl (Dec 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> JimHCK wants me to send him a 'video' of my out of phase KZ copper/silver mix cable,
> 
> "Can you provide a video to our email? You can show the product problem in this video. After we confirm the product's problem, we'll help you."
> 
> ...



I got the same problem a week ago. I'd recommend exactly like @Slater said. I've made this video showing the same problem comparing w/ the TRN V10's sleeve/ground pin:


Spoiler








After I've sent it to the seller he offered me $8 refund or return it to China and get a replacement. I got this $8 then I bought a new cable.


----------



## eclein

I’m from an artsy family and chose drumming to pursue, in my world EQ-ing is never used. Artists use paint musicians use sound to create atmosphere and rhythm. Don’t erase the artists vision with random EQ experimentations. An engineer and artist worked very hard to sculp the sound they present....don’t tag it with EQ.

M7 is going back....anybody use Hiby or Hidiz DAPs?
Maybe I’ll grab a Hidiz. AP60 Pro.........1) must use ESS SABRE DAC and 2) be able to receive and convert Bluetooth so I can enjoy Spotify!

Don’t forget to grab a BA10 and listen to how its tuned so perfectly.....totally worth every cent.


----------



## mbwilson111

eclein said:


> I’m from an artsy family and chose drumming to pursue, in my world EQ-ing is never used. Artists use paint musicians use sound to create atmosphere and rhythm. Don’t erase the artists vision with random EQ experimentations. An engineer and artist worked very hard to sculp the sound they present....don’t tag it with EQ.



EQ is not used in my world either.. and I am just a music lover.


----------



## Conest

It all comes down to the personal preferences after all...

And maybe i wouldn't use an eq too...
I've never had my first DAP yet.. but i have used Mi A1 which has an excellent output.. powered by Dirac HD... I loved it..
And that takes me to my question again ...
Best Portable DAP/ Amp under 60 to 80 ?


----------



## Conest

eclein said:


> I’m from an artsy family and chose drumming to pursue, in my world EQ-ing is never used. Artists use paint musicians use sound to create atmosphere and rhythm. Don’t erase the artists vision with random EQ experimentations. An engineer and artist worked very hard to sculp the sound they present....don’t tag it with EQ.
> 
> M7 is going back....anybody use Hiby or Hidiz DAPs?
> Maybe I’ll grab a Hidiz. AP60 Pro.........1) must use ESS SABRE DAC and 2) be able to receive and convert Bluetooth so I can enjoy Spotify!
> ...


I think it's about tuning their gear right.. and not alter the actual sound... I mean thats why we use eq right ?


----------



## Podster

Well it may not be best for many but my fave $50 DAP is this little baby (Colorfly C3) Of course if you want a screen you need not apply!




 

Pay no attention to the topping on the bottom or was that the man behind the curtain


----------



## Conest

Podster said:


> Well it may not be best for many but my fave $50 DAP is this little baby (Colorfly C3) Of course if you want a screen you need not apply!
> 
> 
> 
> Pay no attention to the topping on the bottom or was that the man behind the curtain


Screen wont be necessary for me though..
I got two options.
-portable Dap
-portable DAC/amp..(want to use it with my smartphone)
But hey... whatever sound the better will be the first choice for me..


----------



## Podster

Well the C3 has sounded better than any phone I've used with the exception of going thru an ES100! Unfortunately that would set you back a Benjamin Got to run, boys got basketball tonight


----------



## blur.png

i never had a DAP, so i wonder which one is a better choice ? Zishan Z2, Benjie S5 or the LG V10/20 (yes its "old", but affordable enough and its a phone, my current one is so-so anyway)


----------



## thebigredpolos

mbwilson111 said:


> EQ is not used in my world either.. and I am just a music lover.


Amen to that!  I also don't use EQ, I think that's part of the reason I have so many headphones.  I like collecting and hearing all the different sound signatures as the manufacturer wanted them to be heard, not how I want them to sound.


----------



## Podster

IMO most phones on their own make terrible dedicated music players and for </>$20 the S5 will stomp most of them! (At least the ones I've tried) Of course as per my signature when on missions for the better half I run my iPhone 6 music thru my Radsone ES100, the only saving grace when strapped to her beckon call LOL


----------



## Dobrescu George

I have KZ ZSN now. This is like, the cheapest IEM I own at this moment, let's see what it can do


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 4, 2018)

I'm a musician, and would completely disagree 100% with the anti eq stance that most audiophiles hold. 

Also as a musician I could care less what someone who has paid their money does with my music. They can lay it on the ground and crap all over it for all I care.

Say user "A" Is using Beats headphones to listen to music, and user "B" is listening  to the same music on his/her Monk + earbuds.  What happens to that carefully sculpted sound the artist and engineer produced? Which one is right and which one is wrong.  What if your song is a song with heavy bass and the monk + doesn't have any bass? Is it a mortal sin to eq some bass into it?

Sorry but not buying it.

It's like being a gourmet and looking down on people who put steaksauce on their steak or a sushi chef who is furious you dare have the gall to use soysauce on your nigri sushi.


----------



## Conest

BadReligionPunk said:


> I'm a musician, and would completely disagree 100% with the anti eq stance that most audiophiles hold.
> 
> Also as a musician I could care less what someone who has paid their money does with my music. They can lay it on the ground and crap all over it for all I care.
> 
> ...


Agreed... 
*grabs popcorn*


----------



## Makahl

BadReligionPunk said:


> I'm a musician, and would completely disagree 100% with the anti eq stance that most audiophiles hold.
> 
> Also as a musician I could care less what someone who has paid their money does with my music. They can lay it on the ground and crap all over it for all I care.
> 
> ...



Indeed. If they want to hear what the producer/musician wanted then buy a Yahama NS-10 or a top-tier Genelec. Lol.


----------



## Dobrescu George

BadReligionPunk said:


> I'm a musician, and would completely disagree 100% with the anti eq stance that most audiophiles hold.
> 
> Also as a musician I could care less what someone who has paid their money does with my music. They can lay it on the ground and crap all over it for all I care.
> 
> ...



I think EQ could improve the sound for many products and it is a free way to make your experience better


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 4, 2018)

Conest said:


> Agreed...
> *grabs popcorn*


Yes unfortunately audiophilia is like a religious cult. There really is no sense in arguing with them. 

Would be better to debate abortion or creationism or politics.   

I Love KZ though.  We can all agree about that.


----------



## Conest

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yes unfortunately audiophilia is like a religious cult. There really is no sense in arguing with them.
> 
> Would be better to debate abortion or creationism or some.


True....... Personal Preferences.. thats all..
I believe if we can make iems sound much better than they are supposed to.. at that price point..
Why not...


----------



## Slater (Dec 4, 2018)

eclein said:


> I’m from an artsy family and chose drumming to pursue, in my world EQ-ing is never used. Artists use paint musicians use sound to create atmosphere and rhythm. Don’t erase the artists vision with random EQ experimentations. An engineer and artist worked very hard to sculp the sound they present....don’t tag it with EQ.



So lemme ask you this...

Hypothetically speaking, pretend you make a song with 2 notes only:

1. B8 on a violin (which is 7.9kHz), recorded at a 10dB level
2. G7 on a guitar (which is 3.1kHz), recorded at a 5dB level (half the volume of the violin note)

Well, let's say I have age related hearing loss, corresponding to a -5dB loss at everything above 7kHz. I'm not hearing your song as you intended, because I am hearing both notes at the same volume. To truly hear your music as you intended, I need to use EQ and add +5dB above 7kHz. THEN (and only then) will I hear your song as you intended.

Make sense?

Now take that same example, but instead pretend I have no age related hearing loss. However, in this example, I am using a set of headphones that have an odd tuning by the manufacturer - an artificial spike of +5dB @ 3kHz. When I listen to your song using those headphones, I am still not hearing your song as you intended. The guitar will be the same loudness as the violin, because it is being artificially boosted/colored by the headphone tuning. The good news is that I can use EQ to reduce the 3kHz spike by -5dB. Then, and only then, would I hear your song exactly as you intended.

See the value of EQ now? Most of us don't generally use EQ with the intent of "messing up" artists' music. Rather, most of us use EQ to correct flaws in our individual hearing or to recalibrate gear that has been artificially colored by manufacturers.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Dobrescu George said:


> I have KZ ZSN now. This is like, the cheapest IEM I own at this moment, let's see what it can do


I heard a rumour that music somehow comes out of it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

thebigredpolos said:


> Amen to that!  I also don't use EQ, I think that's part of the reason I have so many headphones.  I like collecting and hearing all the different sound signatures as the manufacturer wanted them to be heard, not how I want them to sound.


I wish I knew how to uae the EQ on my Zishan Z1. Until then, I concur.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

blur.png said:


> i never had a DAP, so i wonder which one is a better choice ? Zishan Z2, Benjie S5 or the LG V10/20 (yes its "old", but affordable enough and its a phone, my current one is so-so anyway)


A cell phone is not a "DAP", it's a wutcha-mah-call-it of everything. So the Zishan Z2 is the best choice.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


> Well it may not be best for many but my fave $50 DAP is this little baby (Colorfly C3)


Have you compared it to the QNGEE X2? Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A cell phone is not a "DAP", it's a wutcha-mah-call-it of everything. So the Zishan Z2 is the best choice.



If a DAP has no screen, it would never be the best choice or even a choice for me.  I have 200 and 400 GB sd cards in some of my daps and I only listen to full albums.  How in the world would I find my albums?  Best for one person is not always best for another.

I do agree that a phone is not a DAP... especially mine as I only have a button cell phone... not a smart phone.   I have other devices for other things.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Makahl said:


> I got the same problem a week ago. I'd recommend exactly like @Slater said. I've made this video showing the same problem comparing w/ the TRN V10's sleeve/ground pin:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



That's a sweet video and post, thanks!!! I think I'm going to suck up the money (take the loss) it cost for the KZ copper-silver mix cable and just move on to other ones. This is "too much" work for me and I don't have equipment for it either.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 4, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> If a DAP has no screen, it would never be the best choice or even a choice for me.  I have 200 and 400 GB sd cards in some of my daps and I only listen to full albums.  How in the world would I find my albums?  Best for one person is not always best for another.


Sorry, I'm a bad person to respond then. I would suggest the Zishan Z3 (same sound as Z2, I hear) but mine broke under a year (needs to be re-soldered), so don't go there... I would like a DAP with a screen as well, but my others need to break first.


----------



## Luxed

By asking a simple question (why do you use EQ), I started an EQ is bad/EQ is good war...
Gotta love forums 

You all answered my question: choice is good!
Simple enough ^^


----------



## CYoung234

eclein said:


> I’m from an artsy family and chose drumming to pursue, in my world EQ-ing is never used. Artists use paint musicians use sound to create atmosphere and rhythm. Don’t erase the artists vision with random EQ experimentations. An engineer and artist worked very hard to sculp the sound they present....don’t tag it with EQ.
> 
> M7 is going back....anybody use Hiby or Hidiz DAPs?
> Maybe I’ll grab a Hidiz. AP60 Pro.........1) must use ESS SABRE DAC and 2) be able to receive and convert Bluetooth so I can enjoy Spotify!
> ...



Not sure what artsy world you are from. In my world as a former professional trumpet player, EQ was not used either (symphony orchestra). For other genres, EQ is heavily used to compensate for the acoustics of the venue.

However, EQ used in the world of playback is not supposed to sculpt the sound. It is supposed to correct defects in the reproduction chain to get closer or as close as possible to listening to the recording the way it was recorded. A quick analogy would be for a photographer to calibrate his video monitor to reproduce the colors accurately.

That said, many people do not actually use EQ that way at all, so you make a valid point.


----------



## Slater (Dec 4, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's a sweet video and post, thanks!!! I think I'm going to suck up the money (take the loss) it cost for the KZ copper-silver mix cable and just move on to other ones. This is "too much" work for me and I don't have equipment for it either.



Can you just turn the plug around on 1 of the sides? You can redo the ear guide the other way if needed - bend the memory wire the other way or if it's the pre-formed soft type you heat it with a hair dryer and remold it.


----------



## voicemaster

BadReligionPunk said:


> I'm a musician, and would completely disagree 100% with the anti eq stance that most audiophiles hold.
> 
> Also as a musician I could care less what someone who has paid their money does with my music. They can lay it on the ground and crap all over it for all I care.
> 
> ...



I just recently use equalizer APO on my pc and I use it for my JVC fx1100. I EQd it to sound like the ZSN, crisper treble, more punch in bass, less mid and low bass hump. It now sounds like ZSN on steroid although still lose in that low bass impact the ZSN has.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Luxed said:


> By asking a simple question (why do you use EQ), I started an EQ is bad/EQ is good war...
> Gotta love forums
> 
> You all answered my question: choice is good!
> Simple enough ^^



Yea. My bad. All my fault. Non eq enthusiast have all the right in the world to consume music however they like. Music is very personal,  and we all have our preference. 

I only have a problem with the reasoning behind never using eq. 
It makes no sense to me.


----------



## voicemaster

L


BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea. My bad. All my fault. Non eq enthusiast have all the right in the world to consume music however they like. Music is very personal,  and we all have our preference.
> 
> I only have a problem with the reasoning behind never using eq.
> It makes no sense to me.



The problem with using eq is that not every gear has the same eq and each devices has their own sound too, so the eq will also change. I don't normally use eq because of that.


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> ZSN plates fit quite well into ZST shells but You need to grind/sand off little edge at connector location to "snap into place".
> ZST text is best removed chemically. Will let You know what works best and how to do it as I plan to remove it also.
> ZST is not destroyed if You know how to "break off" faceplates with proper tool and move.



The operative word I believe is _buff_. 

It was @Slater who declared, "Yea, I think KZ needs to chill out on the goofy cursive font."

Yes, he was referring to the ZST—and the ZS3, ES3, ZSR.. 

It was also he who came up with this brilliant, effective, DIY How2:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2223#post-14296420


----------



## Podster

voicemaster said:


> L
> 
> 
> The problem with using eq is that not every gear has the same eq and each devices has their own sound too, so the eq will also change. I don't normally use eq because of that.



That’s just the tip of the iceberg, each iem responds differently to EQ and amps can also change the way rhey sound with some EQ depending once again on any given devices EQ! I usually run all my EQ off unless I have the option for flat.


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> Thing is... You just have to screw off ZSN plates, remove plates from ZST and push ZST plates inside ZSN shells, no glue even needed, fits tight and secure.



Goodness, I again forgot the subject of the DIY job being considered, but here goes...

Gor–Gee–Yesssss! (SybilLance intended) 

@CoiL dear, if you sell a pair of these to me I'd buy them in a heartbeat. 

But they have to be less than $15 of course!


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Have you compared it to the QNGEE X2? Thanks.



Sorry, not familiar with that model however I’ve heard the X-11 (still don’t know the maker of that one)! Mrobo C5, Benjie S5, T6 & K9,  FiiO M3 and the Walnut V2 as far as budget Chi-Fi.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 4, 2018)

Podster said:


> Had been meaning to get back to you with my $.02 Doc but was side tracked and at my age it often happens when I simply turn around  My money would be with the FiiO as some of the most solid product from any maker, my X3ii is still one of my faves but everything they build is top notch IMO and they have a little bit of that Energizer Battery thing going on With that said I'm sure you will enjoy whatever you decide on




Thanks for the feedback, Pod! I am seriously considering the Fiio X5iii but I am also currently researching Coil's suggestion (iBasso DX120 ) as well.

Actually, if I can get the Fiio X5iii at a low enough price then I may also pick up the Cowon Plenue J as well. Recently read HiFiChris' review of it and seems like it would be a perfect standalone DAP like my ZuneHD for on the go listening. The specs show it's output impedance is only 0.5Ω. It may not be very powerful but I could confidently use mult-BA in-ears when out and about. I usually use dynamic driver IEMs with my ZuneHD outdoors to preserve my hearing (not sure what the output impedance is on the ZuneHD but multi-BA in-ears tend to have peaks in the upper-midrange and/or lower-treble when I use  it). The only hybrid I currently take outdoors is the ZSR because it pairs well with my ZuneHD. 
That Cowon J would make it possible for me to take the BA10 (and AS10 when I get them) outdoors without sacrificing my hearing. My Fiio X3(i) is in perfect condition and it is indeed portable but it never leaves home. An X5iii would likely never be used outdoors either, hence the Cowon J.



 

I don't typically use EQ (too many colorful IEMs) but I remember using the JetAudio app and the AM-3D add-on was a ton of fun to sample. I think the Cowon Plenue J comes with the JetAudio 20-band EQ, BBE and AM3D installed. 

For those of you with the ZSN, ATR, ED16, ZST or any other KZ that isn't an outright party animal, my suggestion is that if you are interested in transforming your KZ into a ridiculously energetic monster then get the free JetAudio app and sample the AM3D (red button). It's great for those occasional "let's go crazy" moments without having to repeatedly empty your wallet for the newest model. I'll usually buy the next model and the next and the next but for those of you that don't particularly care to do that you should try the JetAudio and AM3D add-on and have a little fun. You won't be able to stop grinning. I certainly couldn't. 



Spoiler





 


 







Anyway, I'll be getting a replacement battery ($15 on Amazon) for the ZuneHD so it can go another 8 years.......without a hiccup. It really has been one of the best kept secrets (regarding DAPs) because the UI is so intuitive. No hyperbole when I say its flawless and has the most fluid UI of any DAP I've come across. Then again I've only sampled about a dozen.



 


 


 


 


There used to be an app at the Google Playstore called UberMusic that mimicked the ZuneHD UI. If UberMusic were still around I'd immediately get the X5iii and import the app.


Spoiler





 


 


 









eclein said:


> Doc take M7 off your list if it was on it, mine is going back I think unless they fix this software.



Thanks for the heads-up.



Luxed said:


> May I ask you why EQ is so important? I haven't EQ'd any of my gear since I got my KZ zst pro. I had EQ on my Shure SE215 before that because they sound so boring. But the ZST make me appreciate what sound signature an IEM can have.
> But I can see that many of you use an EQ and I'm wondering why?



The answer is quite simple. EQ is great if you want or need that option. Years ago I shunned Apple's iPods because they only came with preset EQ profiles. I hadn't started collecting in-ears yet and PowerAmp was my go to player for a "fun" sound but today I think PowerAmp skews the sound too much and I prefer things as clean as possible. I let the IEM color the presentation instead.......and I'm having the time of my life.

You know the old adage "there is more than one way to skin a cat". 

Awful analogy, though. Cats are cool.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my AS10 from 11.11 and I am loving it. This has much more forward mid than the zsn and also boomier bass than zsn. The bass is big but not enough impact as zsn. I could hear the thump from kick drum (the drum being hit by the beater, but there is no power/impact to back it up unlike zsn). I was expecting this as BA driver can't hit like DD for bass. But this is good if I want more isolation like when inside an airplane or something.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 5, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> Just received my AS10 from 11.11 and I am loving it. This has much more forward mid than the zsn and also boomier bass than zsn. The bass is big but not enough impact as zsn. I could hear the thump from kick drum (the drum being hit by the beater, but there is no power/impact to back it up unlike zsn). I was expecting this as BA driver can't hit like DD for bass. But this is good if I want more isolation like when inside an airplane or something.


This is good to know.

Thanks for your honest input and impression!


----------



## voicemaster

Listening as10 through my liquid carbon, the bass has become more impactful but not the same level as zsn, but again BA driver's bass is technically different than DD. I think as10 benefit from amping.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 5, 2018)

Luxed said:


> May I ask you why EQ is so important? I haven't EQ'd any of my gear since I got my KZ zst pro. I had EQ on my Shure SE215 before that because they sound so boring. But the ZST make me appreciate what sound signature an IEM can have.
> But I can see that many of you use an EQ and I'm wondering why?





BadReligionPunk said:


> I would ask,  why wouldn't you use eq?
> Everybodys ears are different and every earphone is different, and every single genre of music is equed differently.
> 
> Eq allows tweaks to the sound that correct audio problems,  whether it's from biology or technology.
> ...





DocHoliday said:


> > Luxed asked:
> >
> > May I ask you why EQ is so important?
> 
> ...





Podster said:


> > voicemaster said:
> >
> > The problem with using eq is that not every gear has the same eq and each devices has their own sound too, so the eq will also change. I don't normally use eq because of that.
> 
> ...



Then there's this view, in some form or another, frequently encountered not just here but elsewhere whenever the topic is discussed:

_"..,I don't like using EQ, I don't think the artist or engineer meant their work to be heard like that..."_

With regard to equalization (EQ) I find the wisdom and experience of docholliday, the other doc over there at the Cayin N3 thread quite useful:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-391#post-14476395

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...oax-out-for-150.833932/page-397#post-14577418

He's a _sensei_. 

Oh! Right now I'm listening to Cab Calloway's irresistible _Minnie_ _the_ _Moocher_ (The Blues Brothers OST) with the KZ ZSN from my iPhone 6+ and my shoulders are moving in time and mimicking his swag.

Using the Audioforge EQ app, compensating for the ZSN raw FR curve posted here previously, I think, and fiddling some more, curious as to how it would sound. Just 320 kbps mp3 but Cab's voice and "Mr. Fabulous" Alan Rubin's trumpet are as Sweet as the FLAC in the Cayin N3.




A full HD video is at YouTube:


----------



## schom

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That sounds very traumatic.  I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I don't want to re-traumatize you because the price is high ($229US online right now), but what happened? (It'll help me from wasting my money on one too )



i dont know how to describe it in english...
i have a extreme jerking / flickered  screen especialy when the music titles have no latin letters.
sometime i have to shut it off....  so the main reasons are software problems.
this cannot be for a 230 USD Player.
my 20 USD Benjie player works with every language.


----------



## schom

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's the difference between the S8 and S5 Benjie? Is it more than Bluetooth and a bigger screen? Is sound quality better, do you know? I guess you'll tell us when it arrives.


iam looking forward to tell you if it is better.


----------



## schom

Podster said:


> Heck, the rig on the right can be had for <$30 if shopped right and that's less than a fast food trip for a family of four
> 
> 
> 
> THX for the info on the OM-1 cable



the upgrade cable solve the "tangle" problems.
this one you have look nicer but you have to detangle it. if you want to catch the train... is sometimes can be frustrating


----------



## voicemaster

SybilLance said:


> Then there's this view, in some form or another, frequently encountered not just here but elsewhere whenever the topic is discussed:
> 
> _"..,I don't like using EQ, I don't think the artist or engineer meant their work to be heard like that..."_
> 
> ...





This is the eq that I use for my jvc fx1100. It tamed down the bass rumble that bleed into the mid and added more impact to it. I will try to do the zsn and as10 as well.


----------



## schom

for me the kz ba10 is a very good earphone - the best i owned so far. i have no problem with the fit and it have a better noise isolation than my 1 more triple driver.
i cannot understand why people dislike them just because of the fit. 
KZ offers them with the wrong cable that is the problem.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 5, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Then there's this view, in some form or another, frequently encountered not just here but elsewhere whenever the topic is discussed:
> 
> With regard to equalization (EQ) I find the wisdom and experience of docholliday, the other doc over there at the Cayin N3 thread quite useful:




L A U G H   -  O U T  -   L O U D ! ! !

I'd no idea there's another Doc on Head-Fi. 

Kind of weirded out about it now, to be candid.


----------



## CoiL

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the feedback, Pod! I am seriously considering the Fiio X5iii but I am also currently researching Coil's suggestion (iBasso DX120 ) as well.


I would go with DX120 ...it`s a crazy little beast for the price it goes  Want one but I`m "stuck" with my DX5X until it dies


----------



## voicemaster

This is the EQ that I use with my AS10 (I am using KZ bluetooth cable). Just a few minor correction which is great. Increase in 20, 30, 40hz really brings those weighty rumble to the bass and add some impact on 80hz. The mids on AS10 is just fine on my ear so not much changes there, just a little bit increase in 2.5 & 3khz to add a little clarity to vocal. Added 16khz a little bit for extra airiness in the highs. Really liking the tuning done to AS10 and this IEM responds really well to EQ and amping.


----------



## SybilLance

DocHoliday said:


> L A U G H   -  O U T  -   L O U D ! ! !
> 
> I'd no idea there's another Doc on Head-Fi.
> 
> Kind of weirded out about it now, to be candid.



Gosh! You didn't know? Well I'll be...

LOL!


----------



## SybilLance

Re: KZ ZSN Purple Cable vs. ZSN Silver "Upgrade" Cable vs. ZSN "Regular" Cable

Or: Do audio cables make a difference?

Many, many times these past 2 weeks I'd point to the $4.72 ZSN silver "upgrade" cable in my Shopee cart and ask my husband, "Should I..?"

He'd reply also with a question, "Have you found any audible differences among the many cables you have?"

I'd answer, "No, but they're pretty..."

Then he'd give me that irritating smile with that exasperating twinkle in the eyes followed by that infuriating shrug.

My point is aesthetics and a backup but then his point is science and I dunno...extravagance?  Last year I'd have bought the blasted cable already but now that I've immersed myself in his world I'm not so sure anymore. And that makes me so mad.

So these days I'm often found at the Sound Science forum going over its various threads and of course _this_ thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how...audio-cables-do-not-make-a-difference.481385/

Very interesting, very enlightening and oftentimes hilarious.

And I'm not mad anymore.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

schom said:


> for me the kz ba10 is a very good earphone - the best i owned so far. i have no problem with the fit and it have a better noise isolation than my 1 more triple driver.
> i cannot understand why people dislike them just because of the fit.
> KZ offers them with the wrong cable that is the problem.



What cable should they offer them with?


----------



## Mellowship

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the feedback, Pod! I am seriously considering the Fiio X5iii but I am also currently researching Coil's suggestion (iBasso DX120 ) as well.
> 
> Actually, if I can get the Fiio X5iii at a low enough price then I may also pick up the Cowon Plenue J as well. Recently read HiFiChris' review of it and seems like it would be a perfect standalone DAP like my ZuneHD for on the go listening. The specs show it's output impedance is only 0.5Ω. It may not be very powerful but I could confidently use mult-BA in-ears when out and about. I usually use dynamic driver IEMs with my ZuneHD outdoors to preserve my hearing (not sure what the output impedance is on the ZuneHD but multi-BA in-ears tend to have peaks in the upper-midrange and/or lower-treble when I use  it). The only hybrid I currently take outdoors is the ZSR because it pairs well with my ZuneHD.
> That Cowon J would make it possible for me to take the BA10 (and AS10 when I get them) outdoors without sacrificing my hearing. My Fiio X3(i) is in perfect condition and it is indeed portable but it never leaves home. An X5iii would likely never be used outdoors either, hence the Cowon J.
> ...




The Zune! That UI was the sketchpad for the Windows Mobile designs. It reminds me of WM 8.1 on my Lumia 925. I believe they called it the "metro" design. I really loved it... Then they bought Nokia, they froze the app development, they introduced Windows 10 too soon on a mobile platform and they killed it. 

There was a moment in time, back in 2013/14 when Nokia Lumias were praised for their quality and fantastic cameras, when other brands were adopting Windows (rare but true, Alcatel, HP, Asus, HTC), when the OS was so well integrated with the hardware that there was no real need of specs comparison, when in some countries the Windows Mobile OS was gaining traction (thanks to the positioning of the excellent Lumia 520)... It's a shame it all came to an end.

The Lumia 925 had great sounding capabilities. It just sounded right... But the music apps available were never up to the job... A shame... I still miss that smoothness and simplicity of Windows Mobile...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

schom said:


> the upgrade cable solve the "tangle" problems.
> this one you have look nicer but you have to detangle it. if you want to catch the train... is sometimes can be frustrating


Which cable are you saying you have to untangle? The KZ 8 core silver upgrade? I have one, ordered another. You don't really need to untangle, it works perfectly.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

schom said:


> Benjie S5 vs S8 - iam looking forward to tell you if it is better.


Have you looked into the Benjie K11? I want to buy one because of how cool it looks.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...ni-Portable-Audio-Players-FM/32871619169.html


----------



## Mellowship

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which cable are you saying you have to untangle? The KZ 8 core silver upgrade? I have one, ordered another. You don't really need to untangle, it works perfectly.



There are a lot of youtube videos that demonstrate various ways of wrapping the earphone cables to avoid tangling. 
Everyday I see people untangling their Apple and Samsung cables in the subway, just because they threw it in their purses and backpacks without properly folding them. 
I've been folding my cables the same way for years now, and not a cable has failed me since.


----------



## voicemaster

Mellowship said:


> There are a lot of youtube videos that demonstrate various ways of wrapping the earphone cables to avoid tangling.
> Everyday I see people untangling their Apple and Samsung cables in the subway, just because they threw it in their purses and backpacks without properly folding them.
> I've been folding my cables the same way for years now, and not a cable has failed me since.



I always do over and under when folding my cable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mellowship said:


> There are a lot of youtube videos that demonstrate various ways of wrapping the earphone cables to avoid tangling.
> Everyday I see people untangling their Apple and Samsung cables in the subway, just because they threw it in their purses and backpacks without properly folding them.
> I've been folding my cables the same way for years now, and not a cable has failed me since.


Where's your how-to video?


----------



## Dobrescu George

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I heard a rumour that music somehow comes out of it.



That's interesting  

I assumed it would be water coming out of it (?) 

Maybe it will even sound good, though for 15 USD, I'll be honest, I don't know what to expect...


----------



## Mellowship

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Where's your how-to video?


Don't you challenge me, sir!


----------



## Mellowship

Been my daily drivers since I got them, back in... two days ago. Damn, the hipe is real. 
Does anyone here not have a pair of the zsn? They are among the mandatory ones, as far as I'm concerned. Never got such bang for buck in a long time. Go buy it, now! Damn...


----------



## CoiL

Copy-pasting my short take @ purple ZSN from another thread:


CoiL said:


> Wait till "new toy" syndrome is over and then assess ZSN again.
> 
> Yes, ZSN does lot things right and better (especially within KZ family) than many others... but... it still has some tiny flaws (at least to me):
> - treble (cymbals) decay and tonality is not so "dynamical" as I would wish and it should sound. But this is BA nature and I haven`t yet heard BA capable offering dynamical highs as dynamic drivers.
> ...



ZSN is must have KZ, that I have to agree.


----------



## darmanastartes (Dec 5, 2018)

Conest said:


> It all comes down to the personal preferences after all...
> 
> And maybe i wouldn't use an eq too...
> I've never had my first DAP yet.. but i have used Mi A1 which has an excellent output.. powered by Dirac HD... I loved it..
> ...


Why would you need a DAP/Amp if you have a Mi A1? The A1 has a dedicated amplifier and the integrated Qualcomm DAC is completely adequate. The only thing that might be useful would be something like the iFi iEMatch or Ear Buddy to deal with the impedance with sensitive headphones. You'll have an easier time with the UI on the A1 than just about any DAP.


----------



## Conest

darmanastartes said:


> Why would you need a DAP/Amp if you have a Mi A1? The A1 has a dedicated amplifier and the integrated Qualcomm DAC is completely adequate. The only thing that might be useful would be something like the iFi iEMatch or Ear Buddy to deal with the impedance with sensitive headphones. You'll have an easier time with the UI on the A1 than just about any DAP.


Gave my A1 to my brother..


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> I only have a problem with the reasoning behind never using eq.
> It makes no sense to me.



My reasoning makes sense to me.  Take a look at my list and tell me how much time I would need to set the EQ on each of my sources for each of my iems,buds or headphones.  Then possibly add in one of my amps. How thick a notebook would I need to keep track of it all? Would there be any time left to enjoy my music? Would I even care at that point?



DocHoliday said:


> L A U G H   -  O U T  -   L O U D ! ! !
> 
> I'd no idea there's another Doc on Head-Fi.
> 
> Kind of weirded out about it now, to be candid.



Lol.. when you first appeared I thought you were him, but something seemed off.  Finally figured it out.


----------



## darmanastartes

Conest said:


> Gave my A1 to my brother..


My recommendation would be the cheapest Hibylink-capable DAP you can find. The Hidizs AP60 Pro might be a good option at $90, I'm not sure what else is out there that might be cheaper. I've had a pretty good experience with the AP60II, apart from some issues with the Bluetooth DAC functionality which I think may be a problem with my phone rather than the DAP.


----------



## vegetaleb

How's the BT20? And how does it compare with aptx TRN BT3 and BT10 in SQ?


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Have you looked into the Benjie K11? I want to buy one because of how cool it looks.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...ni-Portable-Audio-Players-FM/32871619169.html



If you order the K11 let me know how it sounds and what you think of the UI, reminds me of the Redant which is on it's way to me now Yes Podster (some have said it needs to change to Dapster) has yet another DAP in route  Because I simply don't have enough MuHaHaHaHa

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MP3...002.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dGxN976 

@mbwilson111 , are you referring to drblue? Cracking me up @Mellowship 

IMHO some of these high end/dollar DAP's could learn a thing or two from Benjie, oh no he deent just say that


----------



## Podster (Dec 5, 2018)

CoiL said:


> I would go with DX120 ...it`s a crazy little beast for the price it goes  Want one but I`m "stuck" with my DX5X until it dies



@DocHoliday I believe I concur with Coil on this one, I've been tempted on many occasions to grab an iBasso myself and wished I'd tried a Zune back in the day! I was really an iPod guy in the beginning and once I decided to start with DAP's I bought the wife the little 128GB Nomad which she loved until she went back to music on her iPhones and my first foray into the DAP world was this







I know don't be a playa hater on me Sure wished I had bought one of these (Zunes) but was afraid to spend that much at the time on uncharted waters for me






Yikes, almost forgot to get Politically Thread correct here! All I can say is "Holy Smokey Robinson" this combo rocks-it


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> @mbwilson111 , are you referring to drblue?



No, the other docholliday that SybilLance referred to.


----------



## trumpethead

Loving my KZ ZSN!! Extreme value with HQ sound...Great job KZ!!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

No eq  needed.


----------



## schom

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What cable should they offer them with?
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> again i have very good experience with the opera upgrade cable regarding the fit.


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> No eq  needed.



Hey BRP, I've been curious about the TRN BT modules! What do you think of them? Besides the obvious SQ how would they perform under physical activity? THX


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> My reasoning makes sense to me.  Take a look at my list and tell me how much time I would need to set the EQ on each of my sources for each of my iems,buds or headphones.  Then possibly add in one of my amps. How thick a notebook would I need to keep track of it all? Would there be any time left to enjoy my music? Would I even care at that point?
> 
> 
> 
> Lol.. when you first appeared I thought you were him, but something seemed off.  Finally figured it out.



Actually, I was talking about the over zealous elitist types that offer up their myopic opinions as fact,  and come up with ridiculous arguments for why people should not use eq. 

You just don't feel like using it. That's cool.  As far as I know your not telling anybody they are silly for equeing, which afterall is my only complaint about the whole thing.


----------



## Podster

Can you point me at that particular upgrade cable? THX

@LaughMoreDaily , might ping @crabdog and ask what cable he ended up using on the BA-10, if memory serves me right they have a straight connector vs. angled but then again I'm delusional sometimes Probably onset dementia


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Podster said:


> Hey BRP, I've been curious about the TRN BT modules! What do you think of them? Besides the obvious SQ how would they perform under physical activity? THX


So far so good.  Been using them at work and they seem very stable on my/in my ear. Played soccer with them on and had no problems either. I think they sound good and battery life last me all day at work.  No annoying drops yet.  Everything seems pretty good for the 25 bucks I paid.

Just need BT60 to have LDAC support and I'm golden.


----------



## crabdog

Podster said:


> Can you point me at that particular upgrade cable? THX
> 
> @LaughMoreDaily , might ping @crabdog and ask what cable he ended up using on the BA-10, if memory serves me right they have a straight connector vs. angled but then again I'm delusional sometimes Probably onset dementia


Yes, you are right, straight connectors made all the difference in the world. I can't mention the one that I ended up using but there are several similar SPC cables on AliExpress and Amazon that go for as little as $20.


----------



## voicemaster

BadReligionPunk said:


> So far so good.  Been using them at work and they seem very stable on my/in my ear. Played soccer with them on and had no problems either. I think they sound good and battery life last me all day at work.  No annoying drops yet.  Everything seems pretty good for the 25 bucks I paid.
> 
> Just need BT60 to have LDAC support and I'm golden.



Does it support aptx?


----------



## schom

Podster said:


> Can you point me at that particular upgrade cable? THX
> 
> @LaughMoreDaily , might ping @crabdog and ask what cable he ended up using on the BA-10, if memory serves me right they have a straight connector vs. angled but then again I'm delusional sometimes Probably onset dementia



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ope...492.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d2g5jst

The ZSN and the BA10 both have a very good fit with this cable.
i use them for sports....

i also testet other cables but for the BA10 the opera factory upgrade cable is the best.


----------



## schom

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Have you looked into the Benjie K11? I want to buy one because of how cool it looks.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...ni-Portable-Audio-Players-FM/32871619169.html



i have the benjie a20 which is similar. and the UI sucks...


----------



## schom

since the benjie s5 there are no real developements from benjie...
therefore i decide to go back to the s5 and so i choose the s8
by the way:
50USD is a good bargain for this player?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/HIFIMAN-Meg...usic-Player-MP3/253583205344?var=552793201357


----------



## khighly (Dec 5, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> Does it support aptx?


SBC, AAC, aptX.

BT10 has phenomenal sound quality even with AAC. It's best paired with the ZS10 in my opinion.

I've been spending a lot of time on the ZS10's and I feel they're underrated here and deserve more hype. They're fantastic _more*_ neutral IEM's and have a giant spacious soundstage. The instrument separation alone is something I feel is new to me with KZ IEM's. I put them right up at the AS10's as a tie, though they are two totally different beasts. Both walk all over the ZSN, but the ZSN has the much better fit and physical design. ZSN is wonderful for its price nonetheless.

ZS10 also walks all over ATH-M50x.


----------



## Podster

You know we talked about the Benjie S5 being such a sweet player I did want to bring up another combo I found to be outstanding for <$60 bones of course one needs to be oblivious to weight or at least need a paper weight while listening but I found these two play rather nicely together


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 5, 2018)

KZ Historians, Which model of KZ's do I own here? Thanks.

PS: It even says Knowledge Zenith on the plug!


----------



## khighly

CoiL said:


> ZSN is must have KZ, that I have to agree.


I don't think it's a must have to anyone who has other recent KZ IEM's. They already just sit in my bag as a backup pair. For the price, they're the top 'entry into KZ' IEM's right now for someone wanting to only spend $15-$20. Pass them out to family & friends for the holidays and it will likely be a huge step up from what they're using now. Plus they're pretty


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> I don't think it's (KZ ZSN) a must have to anyone who has other recent KZ IEM's. Plus they're pretty


Almost as pretty as your photo.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 5, 2018)

khighly said:


> ZS10 also walks all over ATH-M50x.


Wow, that's cool to hear! Those headphones and the M40X's are sooo popular here!

I paid $30 for my ZS10 and the M50X's are about $175 here.


----------



## khighly

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ Historians, Which model of KZ's do I own here? Thanks.
> 
> PS: It even says Knowledge Zenith on the plug!



KZ Archaeology!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

schom said:


> since the benjie s5 there are no real developements from benjie...
> therefore i decide to go back to the s5 and so i choose the s8
> by the way:
> 50USD is a good bargain for this player?
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/HIFIMAN-Meg...usic-Player-MP3/253583205344?var=552793201357


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifiman-megamini.21855/reviews


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Almost as pretty as your photo.


I laughed.. thanks


----------



## Podster (Dec 5, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ Historians, Which model of KZ's do I own here? Thanks.
> 
> PS: It even says Knowledge Zenith on the plug!



IE7's I believe. Do you also own a pair of Rings? They would have probably been harder for some to name


----------



## mbwilson111

Cyan ZSN


----------



## randomnin

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Almost as pretty as your photo.


Category error!


----------



## Mybutthurts

khighly said:


> SBC, AAC, aptX.
> 
> BT10 has phenomenal sound quality even with AAC. It's best paired with the ZS10 in my opinion.
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more on your comparison between AS10 & ZS10, both are excellent in their detail. Although, I have to lower the EQ abit on bass on my Fiio x1 (2nd gen) to my taste.
ZSN still awaiting delivery, I think the postal gnomes have got their hands on them for Xmas...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 5, 2018)

Podster said:


> IE7's I believe.


Wow, you're a master sleuth! I did a google search and they are KZ IE7's for sure. Unfortunately, Aproear is down so I can't find any more info at this time. I will keep searching. Thanks! 

PS: KZ IE7 on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...o-Earphones-Earpiece/1213684_32807350217.html


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Vidal said:


> I've ordered the IE7, let's see if they ship


What do you think of them Vidal?


----------



## SybilLance

Found these on my desk this morning.



Now have a lovely pair.



Husband got more than a Kiss before he left...he also got a Big Hug.

Happy Holidays!


----------



## Podster (Dec 6, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What do you think of them Vidal?



Wow, I had no idea the IE7’s could even be found anymore! I’m almost positive the Micro Rings can’t be found. Many moons ago there was a guy on here, Avatar escapes me and I don’t think he post anymore but I remember he had IE7’s and Rings. Can’t wait to hear what Vidal thinks of them

You cracked me up @SybilLance , think you will enjoy those 6’s


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> Can’t wait to hear what Vidal thinks of them



That post from Vidal saying he had ordered them is from Apr 27, 2017!  He has not been here for several months...


----------



## PhonoPhi

Conest said:


> ...
> And that takes me to my question again ...
> Best Portable DAP/ Amp under 60 to 80 ?


Perhaps, KZ should enter the DAP market (I believe they are a large company in Shenzen, or a part of) given the success of their recent offerings and similar to Fiio entry into IEM market few years ago


----------



## eclein (Dec 5, 2018)

Well I guess you told me! Oops! My apologies to anyone I offended who enjoys EQ.....

I just ordered Hidiz AP60 PRO for $89 on Amazon (its more than you want to spend I know but I’ll let you know if it sounds good)


----------



## hakuzen

schom said:


> since the benjie s5 there are no real developements from benjie...
> therefore i decide to go back to the s5 and so i choose the s8
> by the way:
> 50USD is a good bargain for this player?
> https://www.ebay.de/itm/HIFIMAN-Meg...usic-Player-MP3/253583205344?var=552793201357


i purchased around 15 benjies s5 time ago; gifted to relatives and friends.
now, you have dual rockbox for benjie t6/AGPTek Rocker (even bigger battery, hiby os..).
this converts benjie t6 into the best value dap under $50, for me. forget UI deficiencies of most daps in this class, and get parametric EQ.
low output impedance, enough power for most iems, metal case, and very small. this can be a true successor of rockboxable sansas


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

hakuzen said:


> now, you have dual rockbox for benjie t6/AGPTek Rocker (even bigger battery, hiby os..).
> this converts benjie t6 into the best value dap under $50, for me. forget UI deficiencies of most daps in this class, and get parametric EQ.
> low output impedance, enough power for most iems, metal case, and very small.


It looks like Canada is still being hit with high shipping costs from Aliexpress because of our postal strike. The Benjie T6 is $150 US shipped. I could buy a Shanling M1 for that. 

Do you know if the T6 has better sound quality then the S5?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

voicemaster said:


> Does it support aptx?


BT20 does not support aptx. It supports  sbc. Don't have any aac devices either, to check for that,  but doubt it supports that.   
However,  I have sbc only devices that sound terrible, and some that sound good. This is one that sounds good to me.


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It looks like Canada is still being hit with high shipping costs from Aliexpress because of our postal strike. The Benjie T6 is $150 US shipped. I could buy a Shanling M1 for that.
> 
> Do you know if the T6 has better sound quality then the S5?


found it (agptek rocker) at amazon spain for similar price than aliexpress.
i haven't got the chance to make a/b between t6 and s5 yet (lack of time), but expect same or probably even better sound quality than s5.


----------



## canzz

I am planning to get a new pair of KZ's and I need a little guidance 

My KZ journey began with the ZS6. I remember the first time I listened classical music with it, I was stunned. Super clear sound, great instrument separation, however, it wasn't suitable as my daily driver due to its brightness. Sibilance was tiring at best and unbearable at most, on the genres I heavily listen to. I listen to variety of genre like the most of us, however, I listen to hard hitting psy-trance, drum&bass type of electronic music heavily and ZS6 was not fun to say the least. 

Then I got the ES3. I wasn't amazed of the performance on higher tones like the ZS6 but warmer signature, punchy bass(even better sub-bass) and great clarity made it my daily driver for a year. Mids sometimes felt a little recessed but it was an amazing headphone overall. After I swithced to comply foam I liked the sound even better.

My brother (who swears by his ath-mx70s) listened to it for the first time last month, I was told to get a new pair 

I was about to place an order on gearbest and I saw the new models such as the AS10, ZS10 and wondered if I should try one of them instead of ordering another ES3. Or perhaps something else?

Any suggestions?


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

I would get the ZSN...I also use the ES3 as my daily...well that and a ZSA. The ZSN fits really well, the cable is better, and the sound is wonderful...warmer than ZSA or ZS5, better detail and clarity than the ES3....it's a very good KZ IEM, it does a lot of things right.


----------



## maxxevv (Dec 5, 2018)

If you like the ZS6 except for the sibilance part, the AS10 and ZS10 are both excellent upgrades.

They both have the detail and clarity of the ZS6 without its majorly obvious sibilance.

BUT .. they are also different.  I have all 3 of them.

The AS10 is essentially ZS6 minus sibilance and a somewhat less expansive sound stage.  It will still show up the sibilance IF its inherent in the recording though.  Its very good fitting and doesn't require much if any amping to sound good. The base source must be good of course to begin with. It will show noise at low volumes if your source is not clean.  Its that sensitive.

The ZS10 is a bit darker sounding compared to the ZS6. But absolutely zero sibilance unless its really, really bad in the recorded track.
It has the expansiveness of sound stage and a great bass slam. Mids are not as forward sounding as the AS10. Treble is detailed yet 'polite' in my opinion, crank up the volume and it sounds beautiful without being bright and piercing.

But its shape may not fit well with everyone as its somewhat bulbous with a short nozzle.  It sounds its best in my opinion with wide bore tips and ball-type foam tips.  And it likes power, amping does bring out some extra sparkle it seems.

Both will respond well to EQ. ZS10 actually sounds fantastic with minor tweaking in the mids range and amping.

ES3 ? Na...  you'll be much better off spending that equivalent money on the ZSN instead in my opinion.

Or plumb up the budget and pick up the AS10 or ZS10 instead.


----------



## khighly (Dec 5, 2018)

canzz said:


> I am planning to get a new pair of KZ's and I need a little guidance
> 
> My KZ journey began with the ZS6. I remember the first time I listened classical music with it, I was stunned. Super clear sound, great instrument separation, however, it wasn't suitable as my daily driver due to its brightness. Sibilance was tiring at best and unbearable at most, on the genres I heavily listen to. I listen to variety of genre like the most of us, however, I listen to hard hitting psy-trance, drum&bass type of electronic music heavily and ZS6 was not fun to say the least.
> 
> ...



I'm a DNB & Trance head, AS10 will do you great. It's a lot warmer than the ZS6. ZS10 is also a fantastic all-arounder with giant sound stage, but AS10 is A+ for EDM. If you don't have the budget, ZSN will definitely be my third suggestion.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 6, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Gosh! You didn't know? Well I'll be...
> 
> LOL!




Yeah, it's been my moniker since 2011 but this image only goes back to 2016. I'll have to dig a little deeper.

.






Podster said:


> @DocHoliday I believe I concur with Coil on this one, I've been tempted on many occasions to grab an iBasso myself and wished I'd tried a Zune back in the day! I was really an iPod guy in the beginning and once I decided to start with DAP's I bought the wife the little 128GB Nomad which she loved until she went back to music on her iPhones and my first foray into the DAP world was this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Believe it or not, some folks preferred the warmer/fuller sound of that "brick" Zune over the ZuneHD's brighter presentation and those Creative DAPs actually sound great. This was my first Creative but it was lost long before I got into KZ. Alas, I was never able to pair any of my KZ's to it.



 

Seems like Creative went by the wayside just as SoundMAGIC was forging the path for Chi-Fi. Then KZ rose to prominence.......and here we all are, 39,000+ posts discussing KZ's of "Christmas past", current favorites and KZ's to come.


----------



## SybilLance

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, it's been my moniker since 2011 but this image only goes back to 2016. I'll have to dig a little deeper.



When I first started lurking here a couple of months before I joined, I even thought you two were one and the same.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 6, 2018)

eclein said:


> Well I guess you told me! Oops! My apologies to anyone I offended who enjoys EQ.....



Such simple apology 
Said with cheerful grace
Makes everyone happy
And this thread a better place.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 6, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> found it (agptek rocker) at amazon spain for similar price than aliexpress.
> i haven't got the chance to make a/b between t6 and s5 yet (lack of time), but expect same or probably even better sound quality than s5.


The Rocker is $70 on Amazon in my country and comes with a six month warranty. One user even posted a photo showing that you can get a twelve month warranty for a good review of the product. They weren't impressed by that. [Due to the conflict of interest that could arise.]


----------



## CoiL (Dec 6, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> i purchased around 15 benjies s5 time ago; gifted to relatives and friends.
> now, you have dual rockbox for benjie t6/AGPTek Rocker (even bigger battery, hiby os..).
> this converts benjie t6 into the best value dap under $50, for me. forget UI deficiencies of most daps in this class, and get parametric EQ.
> low output impedance, enough power for most iems, metal case, and very small. this can be a true successor of rockboxable sansas


I wish I had gotten You advice earlier.
I got QNGEE X2, which sounds quite good but is bright sided and matchup with any IEM (chi-fi) having BA for highs is too much and I have to use EQ, which unfortunately is only 5-band.
I have to set it like this to get best out of ZSN:


----------



## hakuzen

CoiL said:


> I wish I had gotten You advice earlier.
> I got QNGEE X2, which sounds quite good but is bright sided and matchup with any IEM (chi-fi) having BA for highs is too much and I have to use EQ, which unfortunately is only 5-band.
> I have to set it like this to get best out of ZSN:


that's one of the reasons to search for rockboxable daps.. you can make parametric eq for your many iems and daps, and carry them over all your daps.
i think i recommended t6 during last month in this thread (or maybe in another), once xvortex deployed its rockbox port for t6.


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The Rocker is $70 on Amazon in my country and comes with a six month warranty. One user even posted a photo showing that you can get a twelve month warranty for a good review of the product. They weren't impressed by that. [Due to the conflict of interest that could arise.]


hope the strike will end soon, and you can access to chinese shops soon. i purchased 2 units at 11.11, for $38 each (using ali coupons)


----------



## CoiL

hakuzen said:


> that's one of the reasons to search for rockboxable daps.. you can make parametric eq for your many iems and daps, and carry them over all your daps.
> i think i recommended t6 during last month in this thread (or maybe in another), once xvortex deployed its rockbox port for t6.


Wonder if QNGEE X2 is also rockboxable? It should use rockchip.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 6, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> hope the strike will end soon, and you can access to chinese shops soon. i purchased 2 units at 11.11, for $38 each (using ali coupons)


Such a loveable comment. Loll. 

Why 2 daps? Lucky guy, I would have done the same but the thought wasn't on my mind... a few people bought the Pioneer dap for $135 online in Canada. Lucky.


----------



## hakuzen (Dec 6, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Wonder if QNGEE X2 is also rockboxable? It should use rockchip.


read time ago people at rockbox were working on a port for one of those rockchip, but i have no notice of it was finished.
same with rockbox for android, but got a working unofficial version somewhere.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Such a loveable comment. Loll.
> 
> Why 2 daps? Lucky guy, I would have done the same but the thought wasn't on my mind... a few people bought the Pioneer dap for $135 online in Canada. Lucky.


because i can sell or gift one rockboxed benjie t6 + kz zsn combo easily. it's a superb present, including a micro sd card and mini reader, and maybe upgrade cable. helping people to get introduced into decent quality music listening (most wear crappy sounding earbuds..)


----------



## eclein

This looks like a great upcoming event.....BA-??


----------



## Zerohour88

eclein said:


> This looks like a great upcoming event.....BA-??



I've poked both the chinese KZ weibo and FB, they all say to "be patient, it is coming". Next should be the AS06 first though


----------



## Slater (Dec 6, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> I've poked both the chinese KZ weibo and FB, they all say to "be patient, it is coming". Next should be the AS06 first though



KZ, please give us the YZ63 already!


----------



## CoiL

KZ should now concentrate all their effort in refining their BA used in ZSN. 
I`m also waiting for YZ63 and ZS7. 
Meanwhile, going to order another purple ZSN for cable donor for my modded ZS5v1 and driver donor for ZS4-shell mod.
Btw, I measured my purple ZSN copper cable and got consistent result of 0.3 Ohm on all strands. At least I know cable isn`t "unbalanced".
This is best KZ cable. Though, I don`t like Y-point down so low (without chin slider) and their plastic moldings are bulky.
Will use Neutrik angled jack when I get another for cable donor and probably remake Y point.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Dec 6, 2018)

Slater said:


> KZ, please give us the YZ63 already!



haha, there's only 2 models on the release schedule not out yet, I think?

YZ41 ended up being a CCA C04 (KZ sister company), YZ46 is that bluetooth model, so there's the YZ66 (triple-hybrid?) and YZ63 (dual-hybrid?) not yet known.

tbf, early leaks was that all of these are hybrids, but they made full BA models, so its just a teaser on the design we can expect from them.

come on, its December already, you got less than a month KZ.









CoiL said:


> KZ should now concentrate all their effort in refining their BA used in ZSN.
> I`m also waiting for YZ63 and ZS7.



Or better yet, outsource some cheap BA models from Binary Acoustics or even qdc (these guys have amazing BA models, it seems)


----------



## Bartig

The first time I bought a second pair of the same earphone since the KZ ATE. I love the ZSN sooo much!


----------



## jeromeaparis (Dec 6, 2018)

canzz said:


> I am planning to get a new pair of KZ's and I need a little guidance
> 
> My KZ journey began with the ZS6. I remember the first time I listened classical music with it, I was stunned. Super clear sound, great instrument separation, however, it wasn't suitable as my daily driver due to its brightness. Sibilance was tiring at best and unbearable at most, on the genres I heavily listen to. I listen to variety of genre like the most of us, however, I listen to hard hitting psy-trance, drum&bass type of electronic music heavily and ZS6 was not fun to say the least.
> 
> ...



If you find the ZS6 too bright, maybe you will not like the ZSN,
The ZSN has more details than ZS6, with very few sibilance after short burnin, but the mediums and low trebles are brighter than ZS6.
You could try the ES4, it gives very natural voices, trebles are soft, the sound is dynamic, but not bright as the ZSN.
I like it very much, it is realy better than ES3 that I found to give artificial recessed voices.
https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1838201.html
ES4 should be used with "whirl wide bore" tips or better the optional KZ twisted "iron grey" color (silver plated)
(not the silver color cable that sounds not so good with ES4)
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS4-ZS5-ZS6-ZS10-AS10-BA10-ZST-ES4-C-ble-Argent-Plaqu-Haute-puret-OFC/32832034285.html
with this cable, the sound is realy great, otherwise there are too buch bass

My ZS6, after maybe 200hrs burnin gives a warm sound, and sibilance is much reduced with time.
My ZS6 when compared has less details and is less bright than my ZSN

I will receive an AS10 very soon , from what I heard here, it could combine soft & detailed sound with enough punch...


----------



## revand

Bartig said:


> The first time I bought a second pair of the same earphone since the KZ ATE. I love the ZSN sooo much!



I bought four pieces so far, for my family members 
Excellent IEMs.
However as you can see from the picture I am using as a mobile music player Fiio BTR3 connected to the Vorzüge VorzAMPpure II+ amp with a Fiio L17 cable. Yesterday I received the upgrade cable for my KZ ZS5 (used with Comply memory foam) from **** (8 core silver plated cable) and the improvement of the SQ was more than considerable .
This system sounds fantastic using an UAPP app on my Xiaomi MI8 and sending the files with LDAC Bluetooth codec!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Dec 6, 2018)

Hi guys, I have ZSNs and I'm totally in love with KZ sound (these are my 2nd KZs after ED9). Now I'm on a hunt for another KZ iems as there is a good sale on AliExpress. I'm torn between ES4 and ZSR as both are available for same $19 price. I'm looking for a good KZ piece under 20. Which should I purchase from the above ones? Or there are better alternatives in the same price bracket? Would appreciate everyone's help.

P.S. Simply love my ZSNs. They blow me away everytime I listen music via them


----------



## CoiL

Dani157 said:


> Hi guys, I have ZSNs and I'm totally in love with KZ sound
> P.S. Simply love my ZSNs. They blow me away everytime I listen music via them


There`s Your answer - don`t buy any of other KZ`s  
Put that money into DAP/amp or something else.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> That post from Vidal saying he had ordered them is from Apr 27, 2017!  He has not been here for several months...



Well I'm pretty sure I've mentioned my onset dementia before right, I'm pleading the 5th or the proverbial catch all "Who Knew" LOL 

Good advice from @CoiL @Dani157  Or even just pairing them with this little Dynamo


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

CoiL said:


> There`s Your answer - don`t buy any of other KZ`s
> Put that money into DAP/amp or something else.



Any good amps in that budget? I'm new to Chi-Fi scene so have no idea about many brands.


----------



## eclein (Dec 6, 2018)

I’m getting a second ZSN Monday, this time silver/purple, so I can a/b test my black ones with the silver ones. I bought the white cable for the black ones so they should be alike except for the shell cover material. Today some BQ3’s are due and tomorrow the Hidiz AP60 PRO should arrive.....sent back M7 to Fiio, first Fiio product I’ve had problems with.
Saved me money though..M7 was $200 and AP60 was $89......I’m hoping its a good purchase, Amazon already sent refund, they are fast!

Do you guys think or know if there is a distinct sound difference between the ZSN’s....Black vs Silver??

Podster thats the M0 correct?


----------



## Podster

Podster thats the M0 correct?[/QUOTE]

Si, pictured here with another fine iem however not from this thread family Guessing I'll be needing 30 lashes with a wet noodle now



 

@Dani157 , guess I missed what said amp/DAP budget might be?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

eclein said:


> I’m getting a second ZSN Monday, this time silver/purple, so I can a/b test my black ones with the silver ones. I bought the white cable for the black ones so they should be alike except for the shell cover material. Today some BQ3’s are due and tomorrow the Hidiz AP60 PRO should arrive.....sent back M7 to Fiio, first Fiio product I’ve had problems with.
> Saved me money though..M7 was $200 and AP60 was $89......I’m hoping its a good purchase, Amazon already sent refund, they are fast!
> 
> Do you guys think or know if there is a distinct sound difference between the ZSN’s....Black vs Silver??
> ...




@eclein found no difference at all. Although when used with foam tips, treble sibilance completely vanishes and bass sounds like a subwoofer from the both the ZSNs


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Podster said:


> Podster thats the M0 correct?



Si, pictured here with another fine iem however not from this thread family Guessing I'll be needing 30 lashes with a wet noodle now



@Dani157 , guess I missed what said amp/DAP budget might be?[/QUOTE]
@Podster  Anything under $50 would do the trick. Trying to create a complete Chi-Fi setup under $50. I've previously used Fiio A1 and they were satisfactory. But want to try other Chinese brands as well


----------



## khighly

DocHoliday said:


> Believe it or not, some folks preferred the warmer/fuller sound of that "brick" Zune over the ZuneHD's brighter presentation and those Creative DAPs actually sound great. This was my first Creative but it was lost long before I got into KZ. Alas, I was never able to pair any of my KZ's to it.









I don't like any of them, sound wise. The middle Zune 120 is OK, but OG Zune requires the "acoustic" preset, and the Zune HD is hollow.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 6, 2018)

eclein said:


> I’m getting a second ZSN Monday, this time silver/purple, so I can a/b test my black ones with the silver ones. I bought the white cable for the black ones so they should be alike except for the shell cover material. Today some BQ3’s are due and tomorrow the Hidiz AP60 PRO should arrive.....sent back M7 to Fiio, first Fiio product I’ve had problems with.
> Saved me money though..M7 was $200 and AP60 was $89......I’m hoping its a good purchase, Amazon already sent refund, they are fast!
> 
> *Do you guys think or know if there is a distinct sound difference between the ZSN’s....Black vs Silver??*
> ...


All three ZSN's sounds the same, but the cable that comes with the Silver/Purple does alter the sound signature to sound even more accurate and balanced with better overall details. Plus, the cable is a clear-copper and it's also thicker than the one that comes with the other two, which are thinner dark brown cables.


----------



## khighly (Dec 6, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> All three ZSN's sounds the same, but the cable that comes with the Silver/Purple does alter the sound signature to sound even more accurate and balanced with better overall details. Plus, the cable is a clear-copper and it's also thicker than the one that comes with the other two, which are thinner dark brown cables.



You say they sound the same, but then the Silver/Purple alters the sound signature? Which one is it?

Different cables do absolutely nothing unless you're buying extremely long shielded runs for high power transmission. I think what you're experiencing is known as the Placebo Effect.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one


----------



## CthulhuNinja

Hello
After years of reading here is a pic of my listening/commuting rigs





Must say es4 is definitely satisfying when in traffic, where ZSN is a delight to listen to while sipping a glass of single malt with a good book in hand


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 6, 2018)

khighly said:


> You say they sound the same, *but then the Silver/Purple alters the sound signature?* Which one is it?
> 
> Different cables do absolutely nothing unless you're buying extremely long shielded runs for high power transmission.
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one


No, your quote is not exactly what I wrote...

All three ZSN's sounds the same, *but the cable that comes with the Silver/Purple does alter the sound signature to sound even more accurate and balanced with better overall details.* Plus, *the cable is a clear-copper and it's also thicker than the one that comes with the other two*, which are thinner dark brown cables.

That's your personal opinion if you believe what they say. But, just to remind you, if you know the different value of metals out there? Gold is the best conductor for longtivity, but eventually they'll be too expensive to make as replaceable IEM cables.

Anyone that studied the value of different metals would know that "GOLD" maintains a steady premium flow of electricity due to the properties that it doesn't oxidize while other metals corrode in time. So, the audio signal travelling through cheap cables IS NOT THE SAME as audio signal going through expensive quality cables.

So, I stand true to my word...


----------



## randomnin

CoiL said:


> KZ should now concentrate all their effort in refining their BA used in ZSN. [..]


Have they not been refining that 30095 BA over numerous models for who-knows how long?


----------



## randomnin

Also, have any of you tried testing crosstalk of IEMs by playing a track that should make sound only in one of the channels while having the opposite side in your ear, and then listening to how much you can still hear, and how bad it is in comparison to other gear? I hear differences in loudness of crosstalk between IEMs, but I haven't yet grasped whether it's because of cables, IEM design differences, or because of my source... What say you?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> You say they sound the same, but then the Silver/Purple alters the sound signature? Which one is it?
> 
> Different cables do absolutely nothing unless you're buying extremely long shielded runs for high power transmission. I think what you're experiencing is known as the Placebo Effect.
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one


Lol. That's not true. Placebo effect of what? A sexier cable different to the original? With wire that looks as sexy as a pair of woman's legs?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 6, 2018)

is there a way to delete our posts?​


----------



## Slater

So my black ZSN came today.

And guess what? The purple has different vents on the body vs the black pair.

Therefore, I think the difference sound is not due to the cable, but rather the *different* *vent*.

I will post photos in a little bit.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 6, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> is there a way to delete our posts?​



you can edit it and remove the content or write something different.

edited to add... you can fix typos, add to your post or anything using the edit feature.  It perfect for when you forgot to add something... rather than write a new post.  We are discouraged from writing several posts in a row... in fact, I believe if you read the posting guidelines it technically says we should not write multiple posts in a row.

edit 2 :  @Slater when you post your photos of the ZSN vents I will check my Cyan pair.


----------



## nicksson (Dec 6, 2018)

Slater said:


> ...  And guess what? The purple has different vents on the body vs the black pair.
> Therefore, I think the difference sound is not due to the cable, but rather the *different* *vent*.


A explanation with very good common sense, 100% credible! I have tried more than 4 kind of cables (thinner, thicker, silver or copper) and never observed noticeable sound difference between them.
So, I always guessed some constructional differences between black and purple versions of ZSN. My purple ZSN is on his way (I own already the black version, witch is very good), but until it arrives your photos will answer the question.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 6, 2018)

Slater said:


> So my black ZSN came today.
> 
> And guess what? The purple has different vents on the body vs the black pair.
> 
> ...



Yes I just checked mine and the silver/purple has bigger holes vent on the face plate.


----------



## Slater (Dec 6, 2018)

Slater said:


> So my black ZSN came today.
> 
> And guess what? The purple has different vents on the body vs the black pair.
> 
> ...




Once my black ZSN burn in, I will A/B them, swapping the cables between the models. I am not generally a believer that cables do anything sound-wise (at least cables with the sorts of impedance values that all of these KZs have). However, I have NOT done any cable swapping yet.

But instead of arguing about cables, I will point out that vents this big DO make a noticeable tuning difference. When I tune IEMs, even a vent that is 0.1mm or 0.2mm will make a noticeable difference. The vent on the purple model measures 0.9mm. I am certain this is why the purple model sounds different.

So maybe the sound difference is X% due to vents and Y% due to cable. We won't know for sure until more tests are done.

The cool thing is that you can see on the black ZSN body exactly where the vent should go, and how large it should be. So technically, this would be incredibly easy to DIY.

Also, I don't own the cyan version, so I do not know what that model has (as far as vents). We will need someone who owns the cyan to chime in and let us know.

Here are photos. Click for larger views.




Also, the 3 vents on the purple faceplate are ~50% larger vs the black faceplate!


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 8, 2018)

eclein said:


> This looks like a great upcoming event.....BA-??



I tend to reign in enthusiasm until I get the new model in my hands. Expectations and impressions are CONSISTENTLY all across the board on almost every KZ released. Feel free to pour through the early pages of this thread to find the feedback on all of these earlier models:

ATE (bassy, mid-centric, muffled, clear, great treble, awful treble)
ATR (awful IEM, great IEM, hollow sounding, rich sounding)
ED3 "Perfection" (too bright/sibilant, too much bass, not enough bass).
ED3 "Acme" (too warm, midrange too recessed, not enough treble, too much bass)
ED4 (too much bass, too k ugh treble, too much midrange, lots of fun, party animal)
ED7  (too warm, not enough bass, too much bass, not enough treble, mid-centric, buried midrange)
ED8  (too much bass, too much treble, not enough treble, buried midrange)
ED9 (great treble, splashy treble, great bass, woolly bass, buried midrange, airy midrange, natural timbre, tinny)
ED10 (too much bass, too little bass, too much treble, midrange too forward, recessed midrange intimate soundstage, wide soundstage)
ED16 (well-tuned, unbalanced sound signature, too much bass, not enough bass, sibilant)
ZS2 (too much bass, not enough bass, buried midrange, forward sibilant midrange)
ZS3 (a muffled mess, too bassy, clear midrange, buried midrange, centered midrange)
ZS5 (great IEM, awful IEM, great midrange, awful midrange)
ZS6 (sibilant, sibilant, sibilant, sibilant, sibi......)
ZS10  (awful IEM, great IEM)
ZSR (great IEM, woolly bass, hollow bass, recessed midrange, midrange presence, sibilant, rolled-off)
ZSA (hollow bass, full-bodied bass, good IEM, awful IEM)
BA10 (awful IEM, great IEM, 

A lot of people hate the ZS10. A lot of people love the ZS10.

Every new model from KZ will garner the same blessings and cursings. The only way to determine if a particular model is something you'd like is to  
1) rely on a trusted members impressions and/or recommendations if said member has similar tastes to your own. 
2) purchase it and experience the IEM for yourself. KZ's are relatively inexpensive.





khighly said:


> I don't like any of them, sound wise. The middle Zune 120 is OK, but OG Zune requires the "acoustic" preset, and the Zune HD is hollow.



If you ever decide to let any of those go then give me a holler and shoot me a price

OR 

because you have a trance/EDM addiction (like me) then ship one of them to me and I will load 40 two-hour Masterworks Collection mixes of classic trance, progressive trance, progressive house and breakbeat. I still have Zune software loaded on my PC. 

The typical fare for an Otello Masterworks Collection mix:


Spoiler



BREAKBEAT:





CLASSIC TRANCE:
Opening track to Las Vegas 2-hour mix 




One of the closing tracks to the Las Vegas mix






Progressive House:
She's missing a friend who'spassed away








with a lot of forgotten, out of print and hard to find stuff  like 





Best mixer and best kept secret for classic style EDM (2000 - 2014) on the planet!


----------



## stryed

DocHoliday said:


> I tend to reign in enthusiasm until I get the new model in my hands. Expectations and impressions are CONSISTENTLY all across the board on almost every KZ released. Feel free to pour through the early pages of this thread to find the feedback on all of these earlier models:
> 
> ATE (bassy, mid-centric, muffled, clear, great treble, awful treble)
> ATR (awful IEM, great IEM, hollow sounding, rich sounding)
> ...


----------



## Slater (Dec 6, 2018)

randomnin said:


> Have they not been refining that 30095 BA over numerous models for who-knows how long?



That’s what they’ve been claiming.

There’s no vents on the 30095 BA body, nor passive crossover components. So I’m not too sure about what they could have changed internally to tune it differently. I would think if there were massive changes, they would have given it a new model number (like 30096).

My gut is telling me that “specially designed” stuff is just marketing fluff.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Once my black ZSN burn in, I will A/B them, swapping the cables between the models. I am not generally a believer that cables do anything sound-wise (at least cables with the sorts of impedance values that all of these KZs have). However, I have NOT done any cable swapping yet.
> 
> But instead of arguing about cables, I will point out that vents this big DO make a noticeable tuning difference. When I tune IEMs, even a vent that is 0.1mm or 0.2mm will make a noticeable difference. The vent on the purple model measures 0.9mm. I am certain this is why the purple model sounds different.
> 
> ...



Why in your picture the black/black zsn looks like it has the vent blocked? In mine it isn't.


----------



## voicemaster

Here is mine


----------



## Podster

voicemaster said:


> Here is mine



Those holes look close to the same size to me at least in that pic?


----------



## PhonoPhi

1clearhead said:


> No, your quote is not exactly what I wrote...
> 
> All three ZSN's sounds the same, *but the cable that comes with the Silver/Purple does alter the sound signature to sound even more accurate and balanced with better overall details.* Plus, *the cable is a clear-copper and it's also thicker than the one that comes with the other two*, which are thinner dark brown cables.
> 
> ...


Silver is the best conductor of pure metals.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

1clearhead said:


> No, your quote is not exactly what I wrote...
> 
> All three ZSN's sounds the same, *but the cable that comes with the Silver/Purple does alter the sound signature to sound even more accurate and balanced with better overall details.* Plus, *the cable is a clear-copper and it's also thicker than the one that comes with the other two*, which are thinner dark brown cables.
> 
> ...



Actually, silver has a propagation index of 106.  Copper is 100 and gold is 70.  The benefit of gold is that it doesn't oxidize and silver and copper oxides 'can' have a negative effect on sound.

There are other theories on why such and such metals may have sonic signatures, but those are discussions for another day.

And yes, I have pure silver conductors: (Siltech LS-38 speaker cables) in my HiFi systems and I even have ICs made with very thin strands of 22k gold (Stealth PGS.)  I got rid of my 3 pair of Audio Note~Japan AN-VZ pure silver (two 9s?) ICs, because at the time, I needed money.

Chris


----------



## HerrXRDS

ZS6 is still my favorite. With the proper EQ it hits levels of bass, clarity and soundstage no other KZ does. I find the ZSN good for $20 but I find myself picking up the ZS6 or QT2 every time I have to hit the gym and need the music to have energy.


----------



## Slater (Dec 6, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> Here is mine



Mine do not look like that. There is no vent in my black/black ZSN.

It’s totally blocked off, ie the plastic body was never drilled. Only my purple one is drilled.

So here we are again, with differences. Some with vents, and others with no vents. Some wired in phase, others wired out of phase. Were the vents tuned that way on purpose? Was it an unintentional QC error? Who knows, each one is like a Fukubukuro mystery surprise bag!

So if someone is writing a review, or a people are reading a random review, or someone is giving their impressions, or someone else is making a recommendation, how do we know that the ZSN person #1 owns will be the same as the one person #2 buys?

How frustrating is that? KZ, you’re killin’ me Smalls.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 6, 2018)

delete


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HerrXRDS said:


> ZS6 is still my favorite. With the proper EQ it hits levels of bass, clarity and soundstage no other KZ does. I find the ZSN good for $20 but I find myself picking up the ZS6 or QT2 every time I have to hit the gym and need the music to have energy.


Didn't you read DocHoliday's post above? You must have bad hearing from ZS6 sibilance! 

DocHoliday: ZS6 (sibilant, sibilant, sibilant, sibilant, sibi...…)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I figured out why every KZ ZSN looks different. They've decided to make every one of them unique with a different sound signature! Don't just buy one, collect them all!


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 6, 2018)

@Slater Is there a big sound difference between the 2 ZSN?

Hmm still have not opened my purple one yet.  Been having to much fun with bt20 and es4. Will open it up and compare to my cyan.

Really surprising that KZ would have QC problems.  I mean they have it right on the box.


----------



## nicksson

BadReligionPunk said:


> Really surprising that KZ would have QC problems.  I mean they have it right on the box.


In September I have received a defective KZ bluetooth upgrade cable (v2). It was impossible to set it in pairing mode, so it was useless. I bought it from Gearbest, The "QC Passed" stamp was on the box, but it seems to be just printed like a kind of marketing slogan...
I made a video record about the defective cable to demonstrate the defect and - fortunately - Gearbest has sent a working one, which have a really good sound for the price. So, it seems like the KZ's QC is not a (very) serious one...


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 6, 2018)

CthulhuNinja said:


> Hello
> After years of reading here is a pic of my listening/commuting rigs
> 
> 
> ...




My understanding is that your Fiio X3iii is a bright-leaning DAP. How well does it pair (synergy) with your ZSN?



HerrXRDS said:


> ZS6 is still my favorite. With the proper EQ it hits levels of bass, clarity and soundstage no other KZ does. I find the ZSN good for $20 but I find myself picking up the ZS6 or QT2 every time I have to hit the gym and need the music to have energy.



The ZS6 is still my very favorite as well. 


 

Truth be told, I would absolutely love it if KZ offered the ZS6 housing with their new low frequency BA and the BA10's rich midrange. 


 

Sounds like an idea for a new model.

ZS8....maybe?

In the meantime the BA10 has really grown on me quite a bit.


 

I don't know if I settled down or the IEM has but it really is a great IEM if it fits your ears comfortably like it does mine.

Also, it should be interesting if KZ uses their new low frequency BA in the new AS06.


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 6, 2018)

well what I have found about the three ZSN in our house, Purple has a hole in both ear pieces, the Cyan has no holes and the black have the hole in one ear piece but not the other. I am wondering if this is where the mould break off point was


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Both my cyan and purple have holes.


----------



## Bartig

Dani157 said:


> Hi guys, I have ZSNs and I'm totally in love with KZ sound (these are my 2nd KZs after ED9). Now I'm on a hunt for another KZ iems as there is a good sale on AliExpress. I'm torn between ES4 and ZSR as both are available for same $19 price. I'm looking for a good KZ piece under 20. Which should I purchase from the above ones? Or there are better alternatives in the same price bracket? Would appreciate everyone's help.
> 
> P.S. Simply love my ZSNs. They blow me away everytime I listen music via them


Why buy other KZ's when you can buy another ZSN? 



HungryPanda said:


> well what I have found about the three ZSN in our house, Purple has a hole in both ear pieces, the Cyan has no holes and the black have the hole in one ear piece but not the other. I am wondering if this is where the mould break off point was


Mine are the same. Apart from the color. I don't hear differences in sound either yet, so not sure about the 'cable does really make a difference' thing... could it be the purple one is just more expensive because it costs more to color the cable pink-ish?


----------



## voicemaster

Dani157 said:


> Hi guys, I have ZSNs and I'm totally in love with KZ sound (these are my 2nd KZs after ED9). Now I'm on a hunt for another KZ iems as there is a good sale on AliExpress. I'm torn between ES4 and ZSR as both are available for same $19 price. I'm looking for a good KZ piece under 20. Which should I purchase from the above ones? Or there are better alternatives in the same price bracket? Would appreciate everyone's help.
> 
> P.S. Simply love my ZSNs. They blow me away everytime I listen music via them



If you want a definite upgrade from ZSN then get AS10.


----------



## mbwilson111

Bartig said:


> could it be the purple one is just more expensive because it costs more to color the cable pink-ish?



All 3 colors cost us the same. $14 each.


----------



## Bartig

mbwilson111 said:


> All 3 colors cost us the same. $14 each.


Do they now? Not before. Good they do.


----------



## Mellowship

voicemaster said:


> If you want a definite upgrade from ZSN then get AS10.


The AS10 indeed has a more balanced sound signature... If only it had the build quality of the ZSN...


----------



## HungryPanda

I have tested both Purple ZSN and Black ZSN with same tips, same dac/amp and same tune with no volume change and can honestly say they are almost identical.


----------



## 1clearhead

PhonoPhi said:


> Silver is the best conductor of pure metals.


Yes, I stand corrected... but it does maintain a steady premium flow of electricity due to the properties that it doesn't oxidize while other metals corrode in time.


----------



## 1clearhead

ChrisGarrett said:


> Actually, silver has a propagation index of 106.  Copper is 100 and gold is 70.  *The benefit of gold is that it doesn't oxidize and silver and copper oxides 'can' have a negative effect on sound.*
> 
> There are other theories on why such and such metals may have sonic signatures, but those are discussions for another day.
> 
> ...


True, what I meant was...it maintains a steady premium flow of electricity due to the properties that it doesn't oxidize while other metals corrode in time.

I will rephrase my statement. Thanks for your input!


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> you can edit it and remove the content or write something different.
> 
> edited to add... you can fix typos, add to your post or anything using the edit feature.  It perfect for when you forgot to add something... rather than write a new post.  We are discouraged from writing several posts in a row... in fact, I believe if you read the posting guidelines it technically says we should not write multiple posts in a row.
> 
> edit 2 :  @Slater when you post your photos of the ZSN vents I will check my Cyan pair.


Yea, I'll check all three(3) of my ZSN's when I get home from work tonight.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> Yes I just checked mine and the silver/purple has bigger holes vent on the face plate.


I have all three(3) ZSN's, so I'll check them when I get home tonight. ...forgot to mention, China time!


----------



## mbwilson111

Bartig said:


> Do they now? Not before. Good they do.



We bought them at 3 different times, but the colors were never different prices when we did it.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> Mine do not look like that. There is no vent in my black/black ZSN.
> 
> It’s totally blocked off, ie the plastic body was never drilled. Only my purple one is drilled.
> 
> ...


It does worry me a little...QC is a big deal and KZ should have made some progress by now. This makes the difference between a good and stable branded company and a company that lacks quality control.

...Come on, KZ! Get it together!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I honestly feel that my cyan ZSN has a little bit more in the low-end then my purple,  but to be fair,  the cyan has about 100 hours on it and also has Sony hybrid tips on it, while the purple has about 5 minute on it and is bone stock.

That said.  This is a really good pairing.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> All 3 colors cost us the same. $14 each.


If you live and purchase them in China, the purple/silver one always cost more..."don't know why?"


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> If you live and purchase them in China, the purple/silver one always cost more..."don't know why?"



Because it is a royal color?


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Because it is a royal color?


In Chinese symbolism purple stands for divinity and immortality. Though, In modern times, purple is being used to represent Love or Romance in China just as red color does in the West.


----------



## Slater (Dec 7, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> well what I have found about the three ZSN in our house, Purple has a hole in both ear pieces, the Cyan has no holes and the black have the hole in one ear piece but not the other. I am wondering if this is where the mould break off point was



Haha, 1 side has hole and not the other. Geesh

The injection mold tree stems (ie where the plastic is injected and also what becomes the ‘break off point’) are on the inside of the ZSN housing. This helps the outside housing be as smooth as possible.

The blank spot is to help ensure the vent is located in the same spot every time (and drilled to the same size).

Depending on the manufacturing volume, the vent holes could be drilled by hand. Or if it’s a high enough volume production run, it could be held by a custom fixture and drilled by a CNC machine.

On a related note, I had a chance to accurately measure the rear cover vent holes. The black cover has (3) 0.8mm holes, and the silver cover has (3) 1.0mm holes.

That means the vents in the silver cover have a 58% larger total surface area than the vents in the black cover. I had guessed 50% larger by eyeballing it, so I guess I wasn’t that far off.

The good news about all this vent business is that on models where the vent holes are sealed on accident, a 1mm hole can be drilled into the shell safely. There are no drivers in the way.

For the 3 vents rear cover, that’s another story. There is stuff in the way that will be damaged. The rear cover must be removed to safely drill the holes larger. That requires a pentalobe security screwdriver, like used on Apple products.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

voicemaster said:


> If you want a definite upgrade from ZSN then get AS10.



I'd instead wait for AS06. Looks much better than AS10 in terms of build quality. Although 5 drivers and three drivers would have some difference in sound


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

BadReligionPunk said:


> I honestly feel that my cyan ZSN has a little bit more in the low-end then my purple,  but to be fair,  the cyan has about 100 hours on it and also has Sony hybrid tips on it, while the purple has about 5 minute on it and is bone stock.
> 
> That said.  This is a really good pairing.



How are these TRN BT20 with ZSN? And did you get 0.75mm ones or 0.78mm?


----------



## SomeEntityThing

This whole talk about holes on the ZSN is interesting. Here are mine - Black/Black, both the left and right have

 a hole...


----------



## durwood

1clearhead said:


> True, what I meant was...it maintains a steady premium flow of electricity due to the properties that it doesn't oxidize while other metals corrode in time.
> 
> I will rephrase my statement. Thanks for your input!



all this while we are talking about the "slow" frequency range of 20-20Khz, not Mhz, or Ghz stuff where this stuff really matters.

So here we have a real logical reason brewing for sound differences...the holes. Here I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when I noticed it in the pictures. Now we have some floating around with missing holes too elsewhere...who would have thought this could even be an issue. LOL This will really add to the fun. I ordered a purple and cyan from gearbest. Still waiting for them to show up, then I will measure.


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> So here we have a real logical reason brewing for sound differences...the holes. Here I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when I noticed it in the pictures. Now we have some floating around with missing holes too elsewhere...who would have thought this could even be an issue. LOL.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

durwood said:


> all this while we are talking about the "slow" frequency range of 20-20Khz, not Mhz, or Ghz stuff where this stuff really matters.
> 
> So here we have a real logical reason brewing for sound differences...the holes. Here I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when I noticed it in the pictures. Now we have some floating around with missing holes too elsewhere...who would have thought this could even be an issue. LOL This will really add to the fun. I ordered a purple and cyan from gearbest. Still waiting for them to show up, then I will measure.



I'm sorry for being clueless, but what might the holes do, theoretically? Open up the soundstage? Lessen noise isolation?


----------



## durwood (Dec 7, 2018)

SomeEntityThing said:


> I'm sorry for being clueless, but what might the holes do, theoretically? Open up the soundstage? Lessen noise isolation?



Depends on location on the IEM. Some tune the bass, some help in the midrange but yes the bigger the hole the less isolation. Typically they are only needed when the IEM has a dynamic driver because of impedance changes when jammed into your earhole. The IEC measurement standard of IEMs calls out 4 volumes of air chambers on the coupler to help model the average human ear. Like passive radiators used in home speakers, or those familiar with bandpass subwoofer boxes and open baffle vs sealed midrange speaker designs. The air holes are like little shock absorbers, and are used like aperiodic vents, some of the holes have a semi transparent membrane that restricts the airflow through it. The hole can be made smaller or larger, or the membrane can be adjusted to restrict airflow less or more to tune certain freq ranges.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 7, 2018)

ES4 with 8 core KZ braided silver cable - I just changed the stock tips to the Spinfits. The sound is much brighter, with a wider more natural soundstage, more details... but the "piercing" brightness may hurt the sound, to me.The stock tips are more neutral and warmer and potentially have longer usability (warmer sounding, no brightness), but the Spinfits… wow, the detail. The brightness... ugh.

The ES4's now stick out of my ears like a second pair of dumbo ears (the first pair are my own) because of the Large spinfits. Maybe I should have ordered medium? I'm also noticing itchiness which I didn't feel with the stock tips.

Spinfits are a good investment for sure however putting the Spinfits on the ES4 nozzles was a pain in the ass. I even felt it on my backside. Because it took like an hour!

PS: On the "bright side" the Spinfits act as Q-Tips when I pull them out of my ears! Earwax blockage was dampening the sound quality before!

PPS: I wonder what the JVC Spiral Dots will sound like when they arrive from Japan? Will my music go from English to Japanese?


----------



## CoiL (Dec 7, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> Yes I just checked mine and the silver/purple has bigger holes vent on the face plate.





Slater said:


> Once my black ZSN burn in, I will A/B them, swapping the cables between the models. I am not generally a believer that cables do anything sound-wise (at least cables with the sorts of impedance values that all of these KZs have). However, I have NOT done any cable swapping yet.
> 
> But instead of arguing about cables, I will point out that vents this big DO make a noticeable tuning difference. When I tune IEMs, even a vent that is 0.1mm or 0.2mm will make a noticeable difference. The vent on the purple model measures 0.9mm. I am certain this is why the purple model sounds different.
> 
> ...





voicemaster said:


> Here is mine





Slater said:


> Mine do not look like that. There is no vent in my black/black ZSN.
> 
> It’s totally blocked off, ie the plastic body was never drilled. Only my purple one is drilled.
> 
> ...





HungryPanda said:


> well what I have found about the three ZSN in our house, Purple has a hole in both ear pieces, the Cyan has no holes and the black have the hole in one ear piece but not the other. I am wondering if this is where the mould break off point was





BadReligionPunk said:


> Both my cyan and purple have holes.





HungryPanda said:


> I have tested both Purple ZSN and Black ZSN with same tips, same dac/amp and same tune with no volume change and can honestly say they are almost identical.





Slater said:


> Haha, 1 side has hole and not the other. Geesh
> 
> The injection mold tree stems (ie where the plastic is injected and also what becomes the ‘break off point’) are on the inside of the ZSN housing. This helps the outside housing be as smooth as possible.
> 
> ...



For what it`s worth... IMHO, faceplate hole differences make NO difference. I have replaced my purple ZSN faceplate with ZST faceplate and I didn`t notice any difference.
Will do more testing against cyan ZSN and report back after some playtime so they are "equal".

But WHY there is no difference? Well, it`s pretty logical.

Those vent holes @ plastic body are in same chamber as faceplate vent holes, so, + 3 vent holes @ faceplates with slight difference really make no difference! Come on, it`s logical.
IF those all holes would have some filter material (like IT01 has), then maybe there would be difference because of vent hole sizes, but since they are totally open - no difference.

Since I have opened many KZs and tested/tweaked them, I can claim that differences could be in slightly different filter fabric applied to DD back or not same quality installed.
The other factor could be also previously mentioned cable difference, which, by hakuzen measurements could make slight difference but depending on gear output impedance, amping etc. might not be noticeable to many. But that doesn`t mean cable doesn`t make any difference. With my gear (very low output impedance) and powerful opamps, with certain IEMs, cable impedance difference (for example 0.8 Ohm vs. 0.4 Ohm) can make noticeable difference in sound (for example **** 4in1).

Now, about those vent holes being closed @ plastic body + 3 holes @ faceplates - they probably make no difference in sound, so, don`t be so alarmed about that "issue" 
And since our ear shapes are vastly different, some ppl probably have those "inner" vents closed anyway against their ear.


----------



## fluteloop

I once sealed up some holes similiar to those shown in pictures above and after I did that... everytime I put them in my ears or moved my jaw/swallowed the driver would crinkle.  just thought i'd throw that in here.


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> Depends on location on the IEM. Some tune the bass, some help in the midrange but yes the bigger the hole the less isolation. Typically they are only needed when the IEM has a dynamic driver because of impedance changes when jammed into your earhole. The IEC measurement standard of IEMs calls out 4 volumes of air chambers on the coupler to help model the average human ear. Like passive radiators used in home speakers, or those familiar with bandpass subwoofer boxes and open baffle vs sealed midrange speaker designs. The air holes are like little shock absorbers, and are used like aperiodic vents, some of the holes have a semi transparent membrane that restricts the airflow through it. The hole can be made smaller or larger, or the membrane can be adjusted to restrict airflow less or more to tune certain freq ranges.



Great explanation


----------



## Mellowship

My black ZST have all the holes in the right places...  

(I mean, one on each plate, one on each shell)
(and they let some sound out for sure!)

Regarding cables and the old discussion about differences in sound, I tend to be very skeptical and to not trust reported differences. The theoretical standpoint where I am is that, a cable that has the right specs for what is intended to do, will perform right. If one has a cable with the right technical specs and changes to another cable and notices differences in sound, these differences are usually attributable to one or more of the following:
1) placebo;
2) expectable lack of sonic memory;
3) the "different" sound coming from the "new" cable is, in fact, affected by technical defects in that cable in a way it is acting as a resistor or as a condenser on top of acting as a conductor. 

Regarding nr. 3, I believe the "sound" being affected by that particular design might be perceived as "better" or as better suiting the listener's taste in audio. It does not mean the cable is better in technical terms.

Like everything in audio, the relation between what measures good and what "sounds" good is not linear by any means. 

Coming from several years of experimenting with hi-fi, mainly with amps, speakers, speaker and IC cables, I've came across many designs that were flawed in what should be considered a technically good component, but did they "sound" right! Others not so, indeed. When cables come to mind, I remember testing a pair of Transparent ($$$$$) speaker cables with some mysterious filters, and the silence in the background was frightening, even with tube amps... But something wasn't right... going back to a pair of cheap low-capacitance solid-core cables that complied with the technical specs to what they were intended to do, it became clear the macro-dynamic of the music was being respected, and maybe those filters were "filtering"(?) too much. After testing many other high-end equipment, I came to the conclusion that, concerning highend standalone equipment, there are two types of audiophiles: those who like "sounds" and go the extra mile to be able to listen to that detail, to Diana Krall's spit landing on the D# of her piano and whatever, and those who like music. Equipment that suits both groups is very rare to find...


----------



## 1clearhead

fluteloop said:


> I once sealed up some holes similiar to those shown in pictures above and after I did that... everytime I put them in my ears or moved my jaw/swallowed the driver would crinkle.  just thought i'd throw that in here.


My theory on the holes (or ports):
They might make some difference in sound pressure changing ever so slightly the typical sound that it's suppose to represent. But, we all must keep in mind the deeper reason for most of the holes are to keep the drivers from the pressure of "driver flex", which keeps them from getting damaged in the long run.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 10, 2018)

With work done, logged in and encountered a flurry of posts about ZSN holes—or the lack of them—in all 3 variants.

Right away I checked mine and was relieved the holes are there.

I read the posts I missed and thereafter decided to try a simple experiment; taping the vent holes with tiny strips of surgical tape, and trying to hear what changes there may be in the sound. Please note: not much science, just subjective impressions from someone who last year could still hear a 15 KHz test tone but now can’t.

At an average of a little over 5 hours a day every day since I received them last November 20, I may have logged ~100 hours on the purple ZSN. During this time I have listened to albums and tracks I’m intimately acquainted with several times, and I daresay I’m familiar with how the ZSN reproduces them by now.

My hypothesis is that covering the vent holes situated on the inner plastic portion of the ZSN housing will change its bass signature and perhaps its midrange as well.

I therefore prepared a playlist of 6 tracks (FLAC) from my collection that would tend to show changes in the bass, midrange and treble (if any):

1. “The Saga of Harrison Crabfeathers” Brian Bromberg, _Wood_ (Artistry, 2001) – The double bass (particularly the intro), then the piano and cymbals is a nice test for timbre, attack and decay.

2. “Caravan” Brian Bromberg, _Wood II_ (Artistry, 2006) – Incredible speed on the double bass is a test for how the system would resolve complex bass notes together with the distinct sound of the fingers on the fingerboard.

3. “Annabelle” Macy Gray, _Stripped_ (Chesky, 2016) – That acoustic bass in your right ear after the electric guitar intro in your left and then Gray’s raspy vocals at your front with the drums providing texture further at the back, all done at a measured, deliberate pace in this binaural track constitute one of the best first 60 seconds of a recording I’ve heard; each note from each of the front instruments—the guitar, the voice and the bass—so clear and so distinct.

4. “Spanish Harlem” Rebecca Pidgeon, _The Ultimate Demonstration Disc_ (Chesky, 2015 Remaster) – Resolution, across the entire frequency range.

5. “Blue Rondo á la Turk” The Dave Brubeck Quartet, _Time Out_ (Columbia, 1959; 2007 Remaster) – Piano, alto sax, acoustic bass and drums—and those cymbals.

6. “24K Magic” Bruno Mars, _24K Magic_ (Atlantic, 2016) – Curious as to how ZSN handles Funk from the 2018 Grammy Best-Engineered Recording (non-classical) winner.

I first listened to all tracks in the order given above with the ZSN as is, with this setup: Cayin N3 (low gain, Super Slow filter, EQ off) line out to Topping NX4 (low gain, Bass Boost off, Volume pot set at 10:00 o’clock) phone out to the purple ZSN with stock copper cable and wide-bore foam bullet/ball eartips.

Next I listened to the same tracks in the same order with the same setup but with the vent holes found at the inner purple plastic housing of the ZSN covered by 5 mm2 patches of 3M Micropore surgical tape.

Impressions.

Firstly, no crackling or crinkling sound upon insertion into ears. No vacuum or suction effect either.

Bass presence slightly increased, notably the sub-bass.

In the first 2 tracks by Brian Bromberg there seemed to be a more palpable impact by the double bass but there also seemed to be a slight corresponding loss of definition. The plucks on the fingerboard became less distinct and in the second track particularly during the fast portions the bass notes seemed to merge into each other and there’s an overbearing persistent thump to everything; I suppose I’m describing congestion and boominess.

The same impression is evinced when the bass enters the stage in Macy Gray’s “Anabelle”, and the granularity of Gray’s voice increased, from raspy to gravelly. The guitar sounded even better, though.

In “Spanish Harlem” the same quantity increase/definition loss trade-off occurred with the bass but I could not tell any other difference with the other instruments. The inherent sibilance of Pidgeon’s singing which was barely noticeable before was still the same.

Congestion and loss of definition of bass was most pronounced in “Blue Rondo á la Turk”. No other differences noted.

Bruno Mars’ “24K Magic” was a revelation. I did not detect any loss of definition or congestion. If there was boominess I didn’t hear any because I was too busy rolling my shoulders, snapping my fingers and wiggling my hips in time to the music.

Thoughts.

The natural timbre, attack and decay of an acoustic instrument such as the acoustic bass are difficult to reproduce and resolve by any transducer. An external attempt to markedly increase bass output alone oftentimes results in loss of perceived definition of such instrument. Since I am quite intimate with the tracks I used, I noticed these changes. Others may not.

There was only one instance where I heard a corresponding change in the midrange, and that was with "Anabelle" of Macy Gray, whose singing voice is already low in register to begin with, and with the electric guitar, the tone of which seemed to have been enhanced.

Dave Brubeck’s "Blue Rondo á la Turk" is oftentimes used as a reference for cymbals but alas the quality of the bass really suffered when its quantity was increased. I could barely hear the finger plucks and those abrupt presses at the top of the fingerboard. Perhaps it’s because of the nature of the 2007 remaster from the original 1959 analog tapes. I don’t know. There seemed to be no other audible change.

I was surprised, however, by the marked improvement of Bruno Mar’s 24K Magic. Could it be attributed perhaps, to the fact that the first four tracks used an acoustic bass, while the bass foundation for the last is electronic? Hence the positive, pleasing effect I experienced?

Could this then mean that covering the vent holes at the inner shell of the KZ ZSN would lend to a positive effect with regard to electronic source music?

One other thing that I noticed is that the effect of the covered vent holes is akin to toggling on the Bass Boost of the Topping NX4, then attenuating by a decibel or two. Certainly the same dynamic sway with “24K Magic”.

Conclusion.

Covering the vent holes found at the inner plastic shell of the KZ ZSN purple does increase the bass. As to what measurable degree, I have no way of ascertaining as I have no measuring gadgets, meters or graphical displays, only my li’l ol’ ears wired to my brain. One inference may be that these vent holes are for tuning the bass, and give the ZSN Purple that sound signature unique among its KZ siblings; fast, resolving bass and only ever so slightly-recessed midrange.

At this point I should like to reiterate that the degree of variations I perceived with the vent holes covered were not that significant. As mentioned I noticed them because I knew where to concentrate and focus my attention. I should also like to emphasize that in my case the ZSN is a natural fit, as if custom-built for my ears. All I have to do when putting them on is to position the tips at the meatus (entrance) of my ear canal with the projecting connectors perpendicular to the ground, then give a slight twist backwards and downwards so that the connectors project and naturally sit at that groove between the helix and tragus of my ear, and the seal is perfect. This way the inner portion of each shell is also seated flush against my concha, which means the vent holes may be partially covered or even closed by the walls of the conchae. Therefore, it’s probably not much of a difference for me whether the vent holes are covered or not.

With others, though, it may be. In other words, the ZSN with vent holes covered might be a basshead’s dream.

Perhaps others, by doing the same vent mod, could duplicate, add to, improve or disprove these observations and impressions? With FR graphs even, like what crabdog, antdroid, hakuzen, et al., have previously done?


----------



## vladstef

ZSN is a very good surprise. Looks amazing (though cable still sucks - black version) and sounds better than ZS10 by a lot. It's even better than ZS5v1 imho (except the soundstage).

I'd even take it over TinAudio T2...


----------



## CoiL

SybilLance said:


> With work done, logged in and encountered a flurry of posts about ZSN holes—or the lack of them—in all 3 variants.
> 
> Right away I checked mine and was relieved the holes are there.
> 
> ...


Did You tape ALL 4 holes (1 in plastic shell, 3 in metal faceplates)?

Haven`t tried covering all holes yet but I`m guessing You will be right about bass raise. Will try it when I have time.
But covering only 3 faceplate holes doesn`t change anything in sound if plastic body vent is open and free from ear, IMHO.


CoiL said:


> For what it`s worth... IMHO, faceplate hole differences make NO difference. I have replaced my purple ZSN faceplate with ZST faceplate and I didn`t notice any difference.
> Will do more testing against cyan ZSN and report back after some playtime so they are "equal".
> 
> But WHY there is no difference? Well, it`s pretty logical.
> ...


----------



## 1clearhead

In my experience, I switched the cables back and forth between all three ZSN's, and the one that always had the clear-copper cable mounted sounded different from the other two dark brown cables. So, that's why I decided to get two clear-silver cables to even the score towards that beautiful balanced signature that only the clear-copper presented to me at the time.
No regrets on my extra purchase!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dani157 said:


> How are these TRN BT20 with ZSN? And did you get 0.75mm ones or 0.78mm?


To me the BT20 has sounded good with everything I have thrown at it.  The ZSN, at the volumes I listen to have the same character. Have not extensively A/B any of the iems I have used on them,  to their wired counterparts,  but everything sounded good.  I bought the .78 as I have never had an issue using them on both .75 and .78 iems.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> ES4 with 8 core KZ braided silver cable - I just changed the stock tips to the Spinfits. The sound is much brighter, with a wider more natural soundstage, more details... but the "piercing" brightness may hurt the sound, to me.The stock tips are more neutral and warmer and potentially have longer usability (warmer sounding, no brightness), but the Spinfits… wow, the detail. The brightness... ugh.
> 
> The ES4's now stick out of my ears like a second pair of dumbo ears (the first pair are my own) because of the Large spinfits. Maybe I should have ordered medium? I'm also noticing itchiness which I didn't feel with the stock tips.
> 
> ...



I use jvc spiral dots on my es4. Mostly for comfort.  They are super soft.  I describe es4 with them on,  as big bass and warm with warm upper mids and a somewhat darkish treble.  To me a warm L shape.  However once the volume is pushed high,  these things can break out and go V. Upper mids and treble wake up and there is a good energy there.  It's just too high volume for me to enjoy for more then like 30 minutes.  Really want to order some spinfits now and try those.  What volume do you listen at?


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> I have two ZSN.  The Purple and the Cyan.  I bought the Cyan so I would have a backup but I would like to get a balanced cable for it.  Two of my daps have balanced output.  Because the connectors are different on the ZSN I am wondering if I will have to wait for KZ to make a balanced cable for it.



I think you could probably use a standard cable as the ZSN's hood basically protects the pins.  It might not be as stable as it wouldn't have the shield around the connection, but the pins are standard .78 pins.


----------



## Podster

Wiljen said:


> I think you could probably use a standard cable as the ZSN's hood basically protects the pins.  It might not be as stable as it wouldn't have the shield around the connection, but the pins are standard .78 pins.



Which is a departure from their standard .75 pin, they tried .78 once before and really upset the community by having one odd man out! Once you have stretched to the .78 it's really hard to go back without surgery


----------



## Wiljen

Podster said:


> Which is a departure from their standard .75 pin, they tried .78 once before and really upset the community by having one odd man out! Once you have stretched to the .78 it's really hard to go back without surgery



Seems the ZSN was a departure from the KZ norm in several respects.


----------



## trumpethead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm surprised you don't like the QNGEE... other than being bright (which is bad.) Why don't you like about it? The Benjie S5 is pretty amazing but if you don't need something compact there are a lot better choices. Apparently Benjie S5/Agptek M20 have newer versions now.



Question, is Benjie S5 Bluetooth have the same sound quality as the non Bluetooth? Enquiring minds.....Thanks


----------



## CthulhuNinja

DocHoliday said:


> My understanding is that your Fiio X3iii is a bright-leaning DAP. How well does it pair (synergy) with your ZSN?



Well what can I tell you on Metal,80/90 Dance, orchestral Classical and Jazz (not like single instrument) it fares very well even without EQ. If there is a single or majority of high treble instruments, then I switch to ES4, with loss of soundstage width


----------



## Podster (Dec 7, 2018)

Since we are on the subject of ZSN and Holes upon I have inspected my black ones and mine indeed do have the single hole in the back and the three holes on the face plate however I cannot tell if the face plate holes penetrate the plate or are just part of the design, I received 3 of the 5 green and purple ones but I'm not opening Christmas gifts just to verify the difference in those and the black ones


----------



## khighly

1clearhead said:


> No, your quote is not exactly what I wrote...
> 
> All three ZSN's sounds the same, *but the cable that comes with the Silver/Purple does alter the sound signature to sound even more accurate and balanced with better overall details.* Plus, *the cable is a clear-copper and it's also thicker than the one that comes with the other two*, which are thinner dark brown cables.
> 
> That's your personal opinion if you believe what they say. But, just to remind you, if you know the different value of metals out there? Gold is the best conductor for longtivity, but eventually they'll be too expensive to make as replaceable IEM cables.



It's exactly what I said. It's not really an opinion once it's been replicated in a scientific manner like that.



1clearhead said:


> Anyone that studied the value of different metals would know that "GOLD" maintains a steady premium flow of electricity due to the properties that it doesn't oxidize while other metals corrode in time. So, the audio signal travelling through cheap cables IS NOT THE SAME as audio signal going through expensive quality cables.



Are you trolling? If you're actually serious, can you please provide any evidence or studies to this claim?

We really don't need this pseudoscientific stuff in here.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 7, 2018)

*Are you trolling*? If you're actually serious, can you please provide any evidence or studies to this claim?

*We really don't need this pseudoscientific stuff in here*.[/QUOTE]

@khighly

Trolling? ...We are all gathered here to share are own personal opinion and experiences with the products we purchase so that others may enhance their enjoyment in the same products as well. So, if you think I'm going to provide you the research and time just because you decided to believe what another website claimed, that's your business. I'm sure you're capable of making time in researching this information yourself just as you decided to research and believe what the other website claimed.

So, just some simple advice...*don't get this forum locked!* Please abide by the rules before you make strong comments and arguments. Everyone here is opinionated and some are well respected with plenty of useful experience.

Hope you understand head-fi administrations point of view. 


-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

@Slater,
I checked the housing, front and back, on all three of my ZSN's and the holes are in their proper places. 
But, you're totally right about the holes on the Purple/Silver being slightly larger than the Cyan and Black. Love that you shared those small details...thanks for that!


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> I think you could probably use a standard cable as the ZSN's hood basically protects the pins.  It might not be as stable as it wouldn't have the shield around the connection, but the pins are standard .78 pins.



It would bother me if it was not stable and it would also bother me if the connector was not the same color as the section on the body of the shell.  I also want the balanced cable to look like the cable that comes with the purple ZSN.   KZ, are you reading this?  So basically the cable for the purple one but 2.5mm balanced.  Thank you!


----------



## Wiljen

1clearhead said:


> *Are you trolling*? If you're actually serious, can you please provide any evidence or studies to this claim?
> 
> *We really don't need this pseudoscientific stuff in here*.
> 
> ...



I'm with @1clearhead.  Your comments are either trolling or simply misinformed.

Scientific fact is:   Silver is a better conductor than copper and copper is a better conductor than gold.   You mention that oxidation or corrosion are required for gold to become a better choice but the average depth of oxidation of silver or copper due to environmental Oxygen is something like 10 Angstrom on average and 20 Angstrom when placed in a high pressure environment.   That leaves plenty of metallic silver or copper in the average thickness of wire to carry the amount of current we are discussing without being impeded at all by the corrosion.   The reason Copper was settled on for most electrical work years ago was because it was better than gold and cheaper than silver and the same reasoning is still valid today.  

In order for gold to be a better conductor than copper more than 50% of a strand of copper the same diameter would need to be oxidized and since the surface area of the wire represents nowhere near that percentage of the overall, unless dealing with micro-electronics, the likelihood of that level of oxidation is somewhere between slim and none.   Gold is used in micro-electronics for exactly this reason.  When a single layer of the material is used then all of it is subject to oxidation and gold becomes worth the extra cost.


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> It would bother me if it was not stable and it would also bother me if the connector was not the same color as the section on the body of the shell.  I also want the balanced cable to look like the cable that comes with the purple ZSN.   KZ, are you reading this?  So basically the cable for the purple one but 2.5mm balanced.  Thank you!



You could buy a 2nd cable and re-terminate it to 2.5mm balanced as long as it is a 4 wire cable it shouldn't be hard to do.   I've done this a few times.  You just need a continuity tester to make sure you know which wire mates to which pin at the earpiece end when soldering to the new jack.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> You could buy a 2nd cable and re-terminate it to 2.5mm balanced as long as it is a 4 wire cable it shouldn't be hard to do.   I've done this a few times.  You just need a continuity tester to make sure you know which wire mates to which pin at the earpiece end when soldering to the new jack.



I know... unless the two grounds are not separated...   you try first    Actually I have not seen the one that comes with the purple version sold separately.  Only the white one.


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> I know... unless the two grounds are not separated...   you try first    Actually I have not seen the one that comes with the purple version sold separately.  Only the white one.



Challenge accepted.  I'll see if I can re-terminate my ZSN to balanced and let you know.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> Challenge accepted.  I'll see if I can re-terminate my ZSN to balanced and let you know.



Cool.  Either way I want to buy another cable exactly like the one that came with my purple ZSN.  It is pretty.  I would put it on my Cyan either SE or re-terminated balanced.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

mbwilson111 said:


> Cool.  Either way I want to buy another cable exactly like the one that came with my purple ZSN.  It is pretty.  I would put it on my Cyan either SE or re-terminated balanced.


At $14 for another purple Zsn, You could just buy it for the cable.  $14 for that cable isnt a bad deal Imo.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 7, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> At $14 for another purple Zsn, You could just buy it for the cable.  $14 for that cable isnt a bad deal Imo.


That better be an eargasmic cable because that's close to $20 for a Canadian while most budget cable options are $10.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I've found the AS10 on E-Bay for $44US, That's the same price I paid during 11/11. You can also use ebates.com or ebates.ca to save a small percentage more.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-AS10-5B...hone-Mic-High-Resolution-Earbuds/232898948026

They have sold 72 so far.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> It would bother me if it was not stable and it would also bother me if the connector was not the same color as the section on the body of the shell.  I also want the balanced cable to look like the cable that comes with the purple ZSN.   KZ, are you reading this?  So basically the cable for the purple one but 2.5mm balanced.  Thank you!


No, they're not listening. Message them on Aliexpress with your comment, Wechat info and mailing address for a surprise gift (but make sure you say you are doing so for that)


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 7, 2018)

Also. My take on the holes, and I might be wrong: I'm wrong about a lot of things.  
The hole is there for ensuring there is no driver flex,  while sticking the iems in your earhole. Then as the IEM is nestled snuggly in your ear,  that hole is pressed against your flesh creating a nice seal and making the bass more pronounced. 

So unless you are someone whose ears don't create a nice seal, and block off the holes, there really shouldn't be any difference in sound between holes,  bigger holes,  and no holes. 

Holes is kinda fun to say BTW.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> I use jvc spiral dots on my es4. Mostly for comfort.  They are super soft.  I describe es4 with them on,  as big bass and warm with warm upper mids and a somewhat darkish treble.  To me a warm L shape.  However once the volume is pushed high,  these things can break out and go V. Upper mids and treble wake up and there is a good energy there.  It's just too high volume for me to enjoy for more then like 30 minutes.  Really want to order some spinfits now and try those.  What volume do you listen at?


I just installed the Spinfits yesterday so I have no answers. However, I may take them off the ES4 because they are very bright at any volume setting. I'm not a scientific whizz, but I guess that's the treble?


----------



## Dobrescu George

Testing the KZ ZSN, they are... alright. Nothing spectacular, but they sound more than acceptable. V-shape with treble roll-off, but the detail is okay, and comfort is actually okay


----------



## CoiL

BadReligionPunk said:


> At $14 for another purple Zsn, You could just buy it for the cable.  $14 for that cable isnt a bad deal Imo.


+ 1


LaughMoreDaily said:


> That better be an eargasmic cable because that's close to $20 for a Canadian while most budget cable options are $10.


Even for 20$ that cable is great for impedance it measures! 0.3 Ohm copper cable that looks nice and is soft - bargain!
I`ve had several chi-fi "silver" plated copper cables that don`t measure so good and oxidize! So, that cable is best price vs. value I`ve experienced yet in chi-fi.


----------



## voicemaster

BadReligionPunk said:


> Also. My take on the holes, and I might be wrong: I'm wrong about a lot of things.
> The hole is there for ensuring there is no driver flex,  while sticking the iems in your earhole. Then as the IEM is nestled snuggly in your ear,  that hole is pressed against your flesh creating a nice seal and making the bass more pronounced.
> 
> So unless you are someone whose ears don't create a nice seal, and block off the holes, there really shouldn't be any difference in sound between holes,  bigger holes,  and no holes.
> ...



The as10 also has the same hole in the back and it is all BA drivers that won't flex like DD is.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 7, 2018)

CoiL said:


> + 1
> 
> Even for 20$ that cable is great for impedance it measures! 0.3 Ohm copper cable that looks nice and is soft - bargain!
> I`ve had several chi-fi "silver" plated copper cables that don`t measure so good and oxidize! So, that cable is best price vs. value I`ve experienced yet in chi-fi.



I really hope they will sell it separately for less than buying the ZSN.  It would bother me to take the cable and waste the IEM.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Also. My take on the holes, and I might be wrong: I'm wrong about a lot of things.
> The hole is there for ensuring there is no driver flex,  while sticking the iems in your earhole. Then as the IEM is nestled snuggly in your ear,  that hole is pressed against your flesh creating a nice seal and making the bass more pronounced.
> 
> So unless you are someone whose ears don't create a nice seal, and block off the holes, there really shouldn't be any difference in sound between holes,  bigger holes,  and no holes.
> ...



The vent that reduces driver flex is the “front” hole, between the diaphragm and the nozzle. On the ZSN you can see it in my photos as a round white circle (which is the micropore tape they put over the hole from the inside).

As music is played, a tiny bit of air pressure (sound) leaks out, which reduces isolation and usually reduces the low end frequencies.

The ZSN vent in question is a “rear” vent, which is behind the driver. Although depending on the internal design of the IEM may not always physically in the back of the IEM (most BQEYZ are a perfect example of the rear vents not being in the rear).

The rear vent allows the driver to breathe by providing air for excursion. It can have various effects on the sound tuning, but _usually_ adds more low end frequencies. 

Think of the front vent as air “out”, and the rear vent as air “in”.


----------



## Tihstea

SybilLance said:


> May I know what is your source device? Is it a smartphone?


Sorry for the slow reply. Yes. It was an iphone 4, then i tested it on my pc, and then on some windows 10 nokia phone. All of them had background noise. However, after testing them on an iphone 6s and a samsung galaxy s9+, it appears that there is no noise at all. It seems that old devices are just terrible haha.


----------



## eclein (Dec 7, 2018)

Somebody posted the cable link way back right before 11/11, thats how I found mine for the black ZSN’s and it came quickly also. I’ll dig around some ...


Look what I found on AliExpress
http://s.aliexpress.com/qmYN3Ufy


My new Hidiz AP60 PRO.....tiny little thing that sounds great! ($89) Much better sound than M7 that was $200.


----------



## mbwilson111

eclein said:


> Somebody posted the cable link way back right before 11/11, thats how I found mine for the black ZSN’s and it came quickly also. I’ll dig around some ...
> 
> Look what I found on AliExpress
> http://s.aliexpress.com/qmYN3Ufy



yeah that is the silver/white one... I want the coppery colored one that comes with the purple ZSN.


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> Did You tape ALL 4 holes (1 in plastic shell, 3 in metal faceplates)?
> 
> Haven`t tried covering all holes yet but I`m guessing You will be right about bass raise. Will try it when I have time.
> But covering only 3 faceplate holes doesn`t change anything in sound if plastic body vent is open and free from ear, IMHO.



Coil, only the vent situated at the inner colored plastic shell of the ZSN was covered. As a matter of fact, I went by the initial assumption that the 3 faceplate holes covered may not have an audible effect, which assumption was in turn partly based on your earlier post about them:


> For what it`s worth... IMHO, faceplate hole differences make NO difference. I have replaced my purple ZSN faceplate with ZST faceplate and I didn`t notice any difference.



And also partly based on my observations when I first got my ZS5v1 and my ZS6 back when the taped vent mod was all the rage, fueled no doubt by that review about the T2 from Audiobudget. I should have mentioned that initial assumption in my "experiment".

I was going to try covering up _all_ vents but then my husband gave me a hi-res album of Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong together and I forgot everything.


----------



## mbwilson111

SybilLance said:


> then my husband gave me a hi-res album of Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong together and I forgot everything.



That kind of thing happens to me all the time


----------



## SybilLance

Please, Iet’s put our cable differences aside or we might end up with an additional 92 pages of near-closed-loop circular discussions with each side making no headway.

In addition we run the risk of being sanctioned, some of which I could only surmise: warned, banned, thread closed, etc. I’m now beginning to see the wisdom of confining such argumentation to a specific forum, i.e., Sound Science, having browsed there for a week now and seeing elsewhere how passions could be inflamed in an instant by an inadvertent piece of sarcasm here, a stray pejorative there. It also invites a flood of irreverence that could behave like multi-barbed spears to the overly sensitive and/or the particularly susceptible. It’s not to denigrate anyone’s standing or position or knowledge or learning or profession. The participants to the above-linked thread appear to be very smart and accomplished and many may even be distinguished multi-PhD achievers in real life, but as I’ve said an endless near-closed loop…

There are many more interesting things up for conversation in this _impressions_ thread, like these holes, or the lack thereof, in the ZSN shell. These maddening, mysterious, curiosity-inducing holes. It’s a more hole-some topic, from a hole-istic point of view, in my opinion.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 7, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> Testing the KZ ZSN, they are... alright. Nothing spectacular, but they sound more than acceptable. V-shape with treble roll-off, but the detail is okay, and comfort is actually okay


Finally a critical review, everyone seems to be blowing smoke out of their ass with no critical ideas of the ZSN.  Just kidding guys.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 7, 2018)

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kz-as10-iem/talk#discussions

There's a Massdrop for the KZ AS10 for $50US. I've read a few comments of people being dinged for huge import charges so it may not be worth joining.

However, it may be interesting to read people's comments on it who may not be aware of Headfi or KZ.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 7, 2018)

> CoiL, post: 14644864, member: 356211"] Even for 20$ that cable is great for impedance it measures! 0.3 Ohm copper cable that looks nice and is soft - bargain!
> I`ve had several chi-fi "silver" plated copper cables that don`t measure so good and oxidize! So, that cable is best price vs. value I`ve experienced yet in chi-fi.


What does the oxidation do to the sound, etc?  When you say it doesn't measure so good, are you speaking of the flow of the sound through the cable or does it damage the sound when it's oxidized or can't flow as well?


----------



## SybilLance

Tihstea said:


> Sorry for the slow reply. Yes. It was an iphone 4, then i tested it on my pc, and then on some windows 10 nokia phone. All of them had background noise. However, after testing them on an iphone 6s and a samsung galaxy s9+, it appears that there is no noise at all. It seems that old devices are just terrible haha.



I’m glad your AS10 noise problem is resolved.

For a while there I thought about replying to your previous posts and start talking on source output impedance, how low it is with Apple iPhones, the so-called 1/8th Rule and so on, but somehow I have this feeling you know more about it than I do.

The bottom line is, with your latter sources, your noise problem disappeared. The pleasure you get from listening to your music after all is what’s important. So here’s to hearing more from you as you enjoy your AS10 and the others to come! Cheers!


----------



## eclein (Dec 7, 2018)

Is this BT cable ok? What was the verdict on this BQEYZ Z1 Bluetooth necklace?
I had the link to it but I zigged and shoulda zagged and messed it up.
I really like the BQ3’s that came yesterday...smooth top to bottom right from the box.

I must say the BA10’s I recently got really lit up this hobby again for me! Thanks KZ!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 8, 2018)

eclein said:


> Somebody posted the cable link way back right before 11/11, thats how I found mine for the black ZSN’s and it came quickly also. I’ll dig around some …
> 
> Look what I found on AliExpress
> http://s.aliexpress.com/qmYN3Ufy


How does the silver plated ZSN cable compare to the copper one it comes with?


----------



## eclein

I haven’t compared them and use the stock ones I get from KZ as backups. It hasn’t turned Green like my other white cable on my BA10’s. Its flipping gross I first noticed the green moss look today....


 
It looked like this a few weeks ago...then boom...a fungus amungus!


----------



## SybilLance

eclein said:


> ...a few weeks ago...then boom...a fungus amungus!



@eclein i do believe you've given the official scientific name for it.

Still can't stop laughing...


----------



## voicemaster

After spending some time with as10 and A/Bing between the zsn and as10, I actually like zsn's sound more than as10. For A/Bing, I am using the same brown cable that both came with and also same newbee red eartips. I play them both using my liquid carbon amp and Fiio E10 DAC.

The as10 is more detail and vocal is much more forward, but there is a spike in the treble area which make cymbal sounds more SSssss and it is very prominent which make it too much in some songs. The bass in as10 is almost the same volume wise, but it is tighter (here is some analogy of their bass, as10 has this bass that sounds like if you are miking a kick drum and you put the mic directly in front of the beater, so you get a very tight click sound of the beater, while zsn bass is like you are miking the hole in the back of the kick drum, you still get the clicky sound of the beater plus the wind sound from the enclosure).

The zsn on the other hand sounds more laid back, vocal is clear but less forward and the same can be said with instruments. The bass is actually a little bit more present in the zsn, but it doesn't make the sound muddy at all (I think it is because the bass is more prominent in the lower Hz area (20-50Hz) rather than mid bass which most IEM tends to boost). 

Build quality is excellent for both, but I must say the zsn size and fit is a tad better than as10 (I can wear them for 4-5 hours straight with no pain in my ear lobe). While the fit is good for both, I feel more air pressure from as10 while none on the zsn (I think due to zsn has vents on the face plate and none on the as10). This also makes the as10 blocks more outside sound than zsn. 

For music listening, I prefer the more laid back sound of the ZSN, but for live sound monitoring the AS10 is more preferable IMHO. They both has similar sound signature and I don't find any problem when changing between the two IEMs repeatedly. Both are a damn good IEM and if you can buy both, I would highly recommend them both.


----------



## khighly

voicemaster said:


> After spending some time with as10 and A/Bing between the zsn and as10, I actually like zsn's sound more than as10. For A/Bing, I am using the same brown cable that both came with and also same newbee red eartips. I play them both using my liquid carbon amp and Fiio E10 DAC.
> 
> The as10 is more detail and vocal is much more forward, but there is a spike in the treble area which make cymbal sounds more SSssss and it is very prominent which make it too much in some songs. The bass in as10 is almost the same volume wise, but it is tighter (here is some analogy of their bass, as10 has this bass that sounds like if you are miking a kick drum and you put the mic directly in front of the beater, so you get a very tight click sound of the beater, while zsn bass is like you are miking the hole in the back of the kick drum, you still get the clicky sound of the beater plus the wind sound from the enclosure).
> 
> ...



This is totally opposite for me, so I wonder if KZ is having problems keeping accurate sound signatures from IEM to IEM.

ZSN is sibilant almost like the ZST, piercing highs in some areas, lacking bass that doesn't even come close to the AS10. AS10 is so rolled off for me in the highs that there is no possibility of any sibilance or "ssss" sounds. ZSN sounds hollow in mid bass for me, which is pretty disappointing and something I love that is filled and present on the AS10's. ZSN sounds good, but not as you describe, so I wonder how different sound signature is per one.


----------



## khighly (Dec 8, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> *Are you trolling*? If you're actually serious, can you please provide any evidence or studies to this claim?
> 
> *We really don't need this pseudoscientific stuff in here*.
> 
> ...



Asking for evidence to extraordinary claims that you made is not a bannable or locked thread offense, it's actually beneficial to the rest of us so we can learn your side of view and determine if what you're saying has any real basis in reality.


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> Asking for evidence to extraordinary claims that you made is not a bannable or locked thread offense, it's actually beneficial to the rest of us so we can learn your side of view and determine if what you're saying has any real basis in reality.



...except that we are meant to keep such discussions in the sound science threads.

just one of many things stated in the rules and posting guidelines:

If what you want to post includes words/phrases like "placebo," "expectation bias," "ABX," "blind testing," etc., please post it in the Sound Science forum.


----------



## PhonoPhi

khighly said:


> This is totally opposite for me, so I wonder if KZ is having problems keeping accurate sound signatures from IEM to IEM.
> 
> ZSN is sibilant almost like the ZST, piercing highs in some areas, lacking bass that doesn't even come close to the AS10. AS10 is so rolled off for me in the highs that there is no possibility of any sibilance or "ssss" sounds. ZSN sounds hollow in mid bass for me, which is pretty disappointing and something I love that is filled and present on the AS10's. ZSN sounds good, but not as you describe, so I wonder how different sound signature is per one.



While still patiently waiting for my ZSN, I agree that AS10 can hardly be sibilant with its gently rolled-off treble. AS10 though is definitely less rolled off in treble compared to ZS10, which seems to be KZ's tribute to treble-averse people.


----------



## khighly

PhonoPhi said:


> While still patiently waiting for my ZSN, I agree that AS10 can hardly be sibilant with its gently rolled-off treble. AS10 though is definitely less rolled off in treble compared to ZS10, which seems to be KZ's tribute to treble-averse people.



This is where it gets weird. ZS10 will *sparkle* for me, without being sibilant. Mine is a much brighter IEM than the AS10 with far more treble extension.


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> This is where it gets weird. ZS10 will *sparkle* for me, without being sibilant. Mine is a much brighter IEM than the AS10 with far more treble extension.



You have me wanting to listen to my ZS10 again.  I remember loving it.. in fact I ordered mine after listening to the one belonging to my husband and loving what I heard.  Can't remember nor describe details of sound signatures like you do .  I tend to remember how I felt while listening to my music.. which is why I end up saying I love most of them


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> ...except that we are meant to keep such discussions in the sound science threads.
> 
> just one of many things stated in the rules and posting guidelines:
> 
> If what you want to post includes words/phrases like "placebo," "expectation bias," "ABX," "blind testing," etc., please post it in the Sound Science forum.



Thanks. I am a firm believer in reality and factual evidence, so knowing Head-Fi hides such is detrimental to ethics and allows people to push pseudoscience that only brings us all down.

I don't think I'll be returning .


----------



## PhonoPhi

khighly said:


> This is where it gets weird. ZS10 will *sparkle* for me, without being sibilant. Mine is a much brighter IEM than the AS10 with far more treble extension.



I feel it is pretty much a consensus on ZS10 that its treble is very prominently rolled off. To the point that people get perplexed - what are those 4 BAs really doing. (My only guess is that they contribute to a very impressive sound stage somehow).

My reference comparison is quite warm Fiio FH1 and quite treble-rich Fiio F9 pro, which can get a bit sibilant, but for the same reason is a great pleasure to listen good recordings of violin music with.


----------



## Luxed

LaughMoreDaily said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kz-as10-iem/talk#discussions
> 
> There's a Massdrop for the KZ AS10 for $50US. I've read a few comments of people being dinged for huge import charges so it may not be worth joining.
> 
> However, it may be interesting to read people's comments on it who may not be aware of Headfi or KZ.


$50usd is not that good, I bought mine for that price on AliExpress a month ago, but I would indeed like to read the comments there too, that will be interesting!
Also, I didn't have to pay for shipping or import fees and even with Canada post strike, I'm sure it took less time to arrive than on massdrop. I bought a few things on there, but as a Canadian, I can't recommend it :/


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> Thanks. I am a firm believer in reality and factual evidence, so knowing Head-Fi hides such is detrimental to ethics and allows people to push pseudoscience that only brings us all down.
> 
> I don't think I'll be returning .



That is not my intent.  The point is simply that because these things get heated for whatever reason, there is a proper place to discuss it.. a place to go for those who want to know more if they are interested.. or to debate it if they want to.  No one is promoting the pushing of pseudoscience.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Your age can be a huge factor in how you hear upper mids and treble.  This will of course skew the overall presentation of an IEM a week bit.  

Also tips play a little role.  Wide bore,  tight bore,  medium,  foam,  and tip depth all make slight alterations.  

Then sources.  I have warm sources,  and cold sources.  Both change the sound dramatically. 

Then you have biological differences that will tweak sound in someway making everybody's perception of what they are hearing unique. 

Then you have the power of the brain,  and bias,  that actually will completely make ish up and believe it because reasons.  

Talking about this stuff is fun,  and comparative discussion is helpful to most people,  but at the end of the day it's all subjective. 

The spoon isn't real.


----------



## B9Scrambler

khighly said:


> Thanks. I am a firm believer in reality and factual evidence, so knowing Head-Fi hides such is detrimental to ethics and allows people to push pseudoscience that only brings us all down.
> 
> I don't think I'll be returning .



They don't hide it. They give you a dedicated forum area to comfortably discuss it. When brought up outside of this "safe zone", threads tend to derail and devolve into arguments that go nowhere. People are passionate on both sides, and it's great that those people have a dedicated area where they can speak their mind with others that want to discuss that particular topic.


----------



## mbwilson111

Luxed said:


> $50usd is not that good, I bought mine for that price on AliExpress a month ago, but I would indeed like to read the comments there too, that will be interesting!
> Also, I didn't have to pay for shipping or import fees and even with Canada post strike, I'm sure it took less time to arrive than on massdrop. I bought a few things on there, but as a Canadian, I can't recommend it :/



Yes, that always needs to be factored in  with Massdrop if you are not in the States.  If I bought this for $50 I would pay shipping plus another $10 tax (20% vat)  PLUS either an £8 royal mail handling charge or £11 pound DHL charge  (another $10=14)...

So in the UK the total would be at least $70 plus shipping.


----------



## maxxevv

PhonoPhi said:


> While still patiently waiting for my ZSN, I agree that AS10 can hardly be sibilant with its gently rolled-off treble. AS10 though is definitely less rolled off in treble compared to ZS10, which seems to be KZ's tribute to treble-averse people.





khighly said:


> This is where it gets weird. ZS10 will *sparkle* for me, without being sibilant. Mine is a much brighter IEM than the AS10 with far more treble extension.



In my opinion the ZS10 is generally more rolled off than the AS10 where it comes to the treble. But it seems to be less so when amped and sort of comes alive in the treble with amping. Would be curious how the 2 of you listen to them though? Amped or low power jacks ?  It may be why it sounds different between the 2 of you. 

The ZS10 loves a little extra power. The AS10 is quite the opposite, any entry level power is good enough. BUt its pretty sensitive an earphone it seems.  On high-gain, previously using the original cables, I couldn't detect any obvious noise at moderately low volumes. But after I swapped it out to a low resistance cable that was like 0.5 Ohm lower than the stock, I could make out background noise at the equivalent volume settings and slightly more. I usually don't need nor use it in high gain, but sometimes I forget and leave the gain setting there. 

That said, the mids of the AS10 are indeed more forward regardless of source. So it sort of sounds less "airy" / " spacious" compared to the ZS10.   

I actually like the ZS10 when it comes to vocals as sibilance will only come in if its inherent in the recording and that its a pretty bad one AS10 will show it if its a bad recording, even if its just a little but it won't artificially induce sibilance like some earphones do.  

I like the AS10 for most of the other instrumental, none vocal stuff as its just so sparkly and tight without being overtly fatiguing.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 8, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> In my opinion the ZS10 is generally more rolled off than the AS10 where it comes to the treble. But it seems to be less so when amped and sort of comes alive in the treble with amping. Would be curious how the 2 of you listen to them though? Amped or low power jacks ?  It may be why it sounds different between the 2 of you.
> 
> The ZS10 loves a little extra power. The AS10 is quite the opposite, any entry level power is good enough. BUt its pretty sensitive an earphone it seems.  On high-gain, previously using the original cables, I couldn't detect any obvious noise at moderately low volumes. But after I swapped it out to a low resistance cable that was like 0.5 Ohm lower than the stock, I could make out background noise at the equivalent volume settings and slightly more. I usually don't need nor use it in high gain, but sometimes I forget and leave the gain setting there.
> 
> ...



Great description!

I use my little Pioneer 30R, which has enough power, but likely has quite high internal impedance (I was not able to find the value).
AS10 pairs  amazingly with 30R to my ears. Impedance matching (iEMatch) definitely affects the sound signature, making it a bit more bland to me (less bass). Low frequency BA driver in AS10 is amazing.
My main problem with KZ10 is that I can't fit it very comfortably.


----------



## voicemaster

khighly said:


> This is totally opposite for me, so I wonder if KZ is having problems keeping accurate sound signatures from IEM to IEM.
> 
> ZSN is sibilant almost like the ZST, piercing highs in some areas, lacking bass that doesn't even come close to the AS10. AS10 is so rolled off for me in the highs that there is no possibility of any sibilance or "ssss" sounds. ZSN sounds hollow in mid bass for me, which is pretty disappointing and something I love that is filled and present on the AS10's. ZSN sounds good, but not as you describe, so I wonder how different sound signature is per one.



I didn't say the as10 sibilant tho. I am just saying that their treble spike is in the region that is very annoying to my ear. This spike increase clapping sound (try "team" by lorde) and the clapping is just straight to your face. I will check the frequency spike when I got home later in the evening.


----------



## voicemaster

maxxevv said:


> In my opinion the ZS10 is generally more rolled off than the AS10 where it comes to the treble. But it seems to be less so when amped and sort of comes alive in the treble with amping. Would be curious how the 2 of you listen to them though? Amped or low power jacks ?  It may be why it sounds different between the 2 of you.
> 
> The ZS10 loves a little extra power. The AS10 is quite the opposite, any entry level power is good enough. BUt its pretty sensitive an earphone it seems.  On high-gain, previously using the original cables, I couldn't detect any obvious noise at moderately low volumes. But after I swapped it out to a low resistance cable that was like 0.5 Ohm lower than the stock, I could make out background noise at the equivalent volume settings and slightly more. I usually don't need nor use it in high gain, but sometimes I forget and leave the gain setting there.
> 
> ...



My as10 sounds louder than zsn on the same volume level.


----------



## aak57

A few days into my first KZ foray via the ZSN and I'm pretty happy.  I've been using my ER3XRs at work and I really like them, but I wanted something I could just leave there and not worry about if they're stolen/damaged.  Wasn't sure about buying the ZSNs since historically I have not gotten along well with IEMs shaped like them, and while the fit isn't ideal they're at least not actively uncomfortable/painful like some I've tried in the past (IT01, I'm looking at you).  From an audio standpoint I still prefer the ER3XR but I was expecting that; all I really wanted was something I could use and not sit there missing the sound of the ER3s.  I had bought the Monoprice 8323 and Tascam TH-03 a while back for this same purpose and they were such a noticeable downgrade I just stuck with the ER3s.  The ZSNs remind me of the KSC75s in terms of value - going back and forth between the ER3s and ZSNs reminds me a lot of going back and forth between the KSCs and my expensive headphones, where I think "Yeah I like the expensive stuff more, but if I had to stick with the ZSN/KSC going forward it wouldn't be the end of the world."  Another plus is that the cable isn't annoying with microphonics like the ER3XR - dunno how Etymotic let that happen.


----------



## Conest




----------



## BadReligionPunk

Conest said:


>


ALL ABOARD!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I'm actually amped on that sister kz that just came out with ZS10 guts stuffed into ZSN shell for $30. 

I really hope that thing improves on the many negatives I have with the ZS10. I know already the fit is right.  I can and do regularly wear ZSN for 6 hours + .


----------



## jeromeaparis

I just received my AS10 that I use on my Pioneer 30R too 
out of the box, it sounded realy bad, with few bass, cold & dry, analytic...
After a night of burnin (pink noise & sin log) it improved a lot, stock cable is good,
but it is still better with the trn 8 core (the black & silver color) balanced with 2.5mm plug

The sound is "pure" with lot of details everywhere, bass and sub very impressive when they come in, that means not all the time..
I am not treble sensitive, and the trebles are enough for me, there is some sibilance, but not much and it is necessary for
the voices to be clear and for the soundstage.
The trn cable increases the definition with keeping the sound soft, yes, a great & cheap cable.
So with the AS10 you can hear a lot of distinct things happening, well separated !







The standard kz thin silver plated cable (siver color) balanced 2.5mm improves a lot the sound of the ZSN
for me it is much better than the stock yellow copper for purple ZSN cable.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> This is totally opposite for me, so I wonder if KZ is having problems keeping accurate sound signatures from IEM to IEM.
> 
> ZSN is sibilant almost like the ZST, piercing highs in some areas, lacking bass that doesn't even come close to the AS10. AS10 is so rolled off for me in the highs that there is no possibility of any sibilance or "ssss" sounds. ZSN sounds hollow in mid bass for me, which is pretty disappointing and something I love that is filled and present on the AS10's. ZSN sounds good, but not as you describe, so I wonder how different sound signature is per one.



I assume you checked for proper phase?

The midbass aren’t hollow on mine at all.

Also, I have no sibilance, and I’m pretty sensitive to that.

However, as you know everyone’s ears are different.

As far as variability between two identical items, that’s always a risk whether it’s a KZ IEM, Honda Civic, or HP laptop.

Companies obviously try and minimize variability with careful controls to the supply chain,  manufacturing, QC testing, etc. but stuff can still slip through.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 8, 2018)

khighly said:


> Asking for evidence to extraordinary claims that you made is not a bannable or locked thread offense, it's actually beneficial to the rest of us so we can learn your side of view and determine if what you're saying has any real basis in reality.


No, but your choice of words aren't very subtle either with claims that one is "trolling" or "needing specific demands to give you answers".
These were your very words several pages back  *Are you trolling*? or...*We really don't need this pseudoscientific stuff in here*.

If you can just chill a little, relax and contribute, instead of hustling others here we could enjoy the forum.

I really hope your personal agenda to debate ends here.


----------



## mbwilson111

Conest said:


>



Those look beautiful.

If they had done this in a jewel-like purple (true purple not pinky purple like the ZSN)  I would have to have  it.  I already have a nice clear colored 3BA per side iem.  My NiceHCK DT300.


----------



## Conest

mbwilson111 said:


> Those look beautiful.
> 
> If they had done this in a jewel-like purple (true purple not pinky purple like the ZSN)  I would have to have  it.  I already have a nice clear colored 3BA per side iem.  My NiceHCK DT300.


Same.. 
Btw I am definitely gonna get that Cyan AS06..


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 8, 2018)

Conest said:


> Same..
> Btw I am definitely gonna get that Cyan AS06..




Looks like a gorgeous emerald green like my husbands DT500.

You have a DT300?  I tried to look at your profile but there is nothing in it...


----------



## Conest (Dec 8, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I think that is an emerald green... like my husband's DT500.  Very pretty.


Saw their tweet.. they call it "New Cyan Color".. (just like Purple color of ZSN)
its awesomeeee


----------



## mbwilson111

Conest said:


> Saw their tweet.. they call it "New Cyan Color"..
> its awesomeeee



Will be interesting to see once people have it in real life.  I think some people confuse cyan and green.


----------



## Conest (Dec 8, 2018)

deleted


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 8, 2018)

Now you have me really confused...

"New Cyan Color".. (just like Purple color of ZSN)

Cyan is not purple and it is not green... it is a kind of blue-green.

...like the Cyan KZ ZSN but that has the gunmetal color plate hiding the color... which is why I colored my plate.


----------



## 1clearhead

So, according to both pictures, is one green and the other Cyan (or turquoise)?


----------



## Conest (Dec 8, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Now you have me really confused...
> 
> "New Cyan Color".. (just like Purple color of ZSN)
> 
> Cyan is not purple and it is not green... it is a kind of blue-green.


Yes... I meant.. just like ZSN is pink-ish but they call it Purple..
So yea.. This is their New Cyan..
We will get to know more about the color variants once its get launched..


----------



## 1clearhead

I actually like cyan. I purchased the CCA-C10 in cyan...


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 8, 2018)

Deleted.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Luxed said:


> $50usd is not that good, I bought mine for that price on AliExpress a month ago.
> 
> Also, I didn't have to pay for shipping or import fees and even with Canada post strike, I'm sure it took less time to arrive than on massdrop. I bought a few things on there, but as a Canadian, I can't recommend it :/


I'm curious why you think $50 is not a good deal. The AS10 is $66 on Aliexpress right now. That's a difference of 21 Canadian dollars. 
Aliepress is always better than Massdrop in the product is there. Massdrop isn't for the average consumer. It supports the high end consumer with tons of amazing products and like Supreme, and the back story behind it, it works very well as a service. If someone doesn't like being dinged by extra fees... 

I must have ordered my AS10 at the wrong time (11/11) as Aliexpress told sellers to refuse to send packages to Canada. Because of the strike Canada Post even sent one package back to China (in protest?) as well. There may have been more of my packages sent back...


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm curious why you think $50 is not a good deal. The AS10 is $66 on Aliexpress right now. That's a difference of 21 Canadian dollars.
> Aliepress is always better than Massdrop in the product is there. Massdrop isn't for the average consumer. It supports the high end consumer with tons of amazing products and like Supreme, and the back story behind it, it works very well as a service. If someone doesn't like being dinged by extra fees...
> 
> I must have ordered my AS10 at the wrong time (11/11) as Aliexpress told sellers to refuse to send packages to Canada. Because of the strike Canada Post even sent one package back to China (in protest?) as well. There may have been more of my packages sent back...


I got my two AS10s in E-bay for $45-46, took less than a month even with the strike.


----------



## CYoung234

PhonoPhi said:


> I feel it is pretty much a consensus on ZS10 that its treble is very prominently rolled off. To the point that people get perplexed - what are those 4 BAs really doing. (My only guess is that they contribute to a very impressive sound stage somehow).
> 
> My reference comparison is quite warm Fiio FH1 and quite treble-rich Fiio F9 pro, which can get a bit sibilant, but for the same reason is a great pleasure to listen good recordings of violin music with.



Not sure where you get your consensus comment from, but for me it is not true. My ZS10's have excellent extension, superior to my ZS5v1 and even the ZS6. In fact, I spent a couple of hours with my ZS5 yesterday, and my ZS10's walk all over them. Better soundstage, much better low end extension, and I agree wih Khighly about the sparkle. As a new head-fier, you might want to weigh your words more carefully before drawing conclusions about consensus. You are better off stating your opinion and not drawing others in for support.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> ...which is why I colored my plate.



Your 1st mod!

And you’re not going to show us photos?


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Your 1st mod!
> 
> And you’re not going to show us photos?



I did!!!! ...and you even put a like on it.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm curious why you think $50 is not a good deal. The AS10 is $66 on Aliexpress right now. That's a difference of 21 Canadian dollars.
> Aliepress is always better than Massdrop in the product is there. Massdrop isn't for the average consumer. It supports the high end consumer with tons of amazing products and like Supreme, and the back story behind it, it works very well as a service. If someone doesn't like being dinged by extra fees...
> 
> I must have ordered my AS10 at the wrong time (11/11) as Aliexpress told sellers to refuse to send packages to Canada. Because of the strike Canada Post even sent one package back to China (in protest?) as well. There may have been more of my packages sent back...



AS10 was $33 shipped not more than 2 weeks ago from Penon Audio (green only).

Unfortunately, I didn’t order a pair in time before they all sold out


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 8, 2018)

there is a reflection of the flash on it... I need some daylight for a new photo. The edges of the plate are colored too.  




Reply


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I did!!!! ...and you even put a like on it.



Sorry, I must have missed that!

I’ll have to search for it.

I probably didn’t realize that you colored the plates, and thought it was just a photo of your normal ZSN.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Sorry, I must have missed that!
> 
> I’ll have to search for it.
> 
> I probably didn’t realize that you colored the plates, and thought it was just a photo of your normal ZSN.



I do need to take a new photo during the daylight hours... it is really difficult because we rarely get up before noon and it gets dark before 4pm now.  Even before that it often seems dark and cloudy.  We are becoming moles.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 8, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> it is really difficult because we rarely get up before noon and it gets dark before 4pm now.  Even before that it often seems dark and cloudy.  We are becoming moles.


If a mole is a jerk they're an assmole.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> AS10 was $33 shipped not more than 2 weeks ago from Penon Audio (green only).
> 
> Unfortunately, I didn’t order a pair in time before they all sold out


The only thing you missed that I found out is they cancel your order after they've sold out even though you bought it when it wasn't sold out. You would have just been disappointed either way, just like I was.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 8, 2018)

PhonoPhi said:


> I got my two AS10s in E-bay for $45-46, took less than a month even with the strike.


Lucky guy, looks like Aliexpress was blocking $15+ shipments to Canada during the strike, possibly in the worry that people would ask for cashbacks but still get their products many weeks/months later.

KZ Global refused to send me an AS10 around 11/27. Then they asked me to pay 1 cent extra for shipping. I don't know what the heck that's about?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 8, 2018)

CYoung234 said:


> Not sure where you get your consensus comment from, but for me it is not true. My ZS10's have excellent extension, superior to my ZS5v1 and even the ZS6. In fact, I spent a couple of hours with my ZS5 yesterday, and my ZS10's walk all over them. Better soundstage, much better low end extension, and I agree wih Khighly about the sparkle. As a new head-fier, you might want to weigh your words more carefully before drawing conclusions about consensus. You are better off stating your opinion and not drawing others in for support.


I may be new to this forum, but I've certainly seen nicer comments.
The consensus I referred to is the strong majority of the opinions including reviews (and importantly here also including my own experience).



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Lucky guy, looks like Aliexpress was blocking $15+ shipments to Canada during the strike, possibly in the worry that people would ask for cashbacks but still get their products many weeks/months later.
> 
> KZ Global refused to send me an AS10 around 11/27. Then they asked me to pay 1 cent extra for shipping. I don't know what the heck that's about?


I am sorry to hear about your troubles.
You can be the lucky guy as well.
My orders were from the same seller you quoted earlier. Two separate orders. Worked well. I rarely use E-bay these days.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> I rarely use E-bay these days.



I still check it before many purchases. On many occasions, I’ve found earphones on eBay that were cheaper than anywhere else (Aliexpress, Gearbest, etc).

eBay also runs 10% and 15% coupons (off any purchase) on a very regular basis, which makes the deals even better.

They used to be really stingy with the site-wide coupon codes, but I assume they have to be more aggressive to stay relevant against Amazon.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Right now,  if using the aliexpress mobile App, you can find KZ AS10 for $42 shipped.  

Also sometimes you can ask for a cheaper price and get it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 8, 2018)

Still waiting for deliveries... ZSN x 2, ZSA, ZS10, AS10... After those arrive I'll try other IEM brands since that'll be like 10 KZ IEM's I've collected?

I'm thinking TFZ or BQEYZ to start. But only when they're on sale. What's the point of buying regular price when I have too many IEMs already? I will sell some when I know which ones...


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Still waiting for deliveries... ZSN x 2, ZSA, ZS10, AS10... After those arrive I'll try other IEM brands since that'll be like 10 KZ IEM's I've collected?
> 
> I'm thinking TFZ or BQEYZ to start. But only when they're on sale. What's the point of buying regular price when I have too many already?



That will be enough KZs


----------



## Slater (Dec 8, 2018)

Is anyone here still using their ZSR?

I haven’t listened to mine in at least 6 months, and I got them out tonight to try them out because I got a new copper upgrade cable for them (either the stock BA10 or AS10 cable; not sure which).

I was surprised at how much I didn’t like them. What struck me right away is an odd midrange tonality.

Also, certain treble frequencies have a flat, compressed, and tinny sound. For example, ride cymbals sound really off - they don’t sound full and natural, but rather more like the cymbals those little mechanical toy monkeys clank together with their hands with. Or like someone is holding their hand on the cymbal, considerably dampening them.

Maybe I’ve been spending too much time with other/better gear lately, and I need to give the ZSR more time for my brain to adjust to?

It’s not the cable, as the phase is OK. The impedance is 0.5ohms, which isn’t the lowest, but still OK for a KZ cable too.

I just don’t remember disliking the ZSR like this


----------



## Luxed

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, that always needs to be factored in  with Massdrop if you are not in the States.  If I bought this for $50 I would pay shipping plus another $10 tax (20% vat)  PLUS either an £8 royal mail handling charge or £11 pound DHL charge  (another $10=14)...
> 
> So in the UK the total would be at least $70 plus shipping.


Yup, that's the main issue that I have with Massdrop too. It always ends me costing way more than I would have if I found it anywhere else.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm curious why you think $50 is not a good deal. The AS10 is $66 on Aliexpress right now. That's a difference of 21 Canadian dollars.
> Aliepress is always better than Massdrop in the product is there. Massdrop isn't for the average consumer. It supports the high end consumer with tons of amazing products and like Supreme, and the back story behind it, it works very well as a service. If someone doesn't like being dinged by extra fees...
> 
> I must have ordered my AS10 at the wrong time (11/11) as Aliexpress told sellers to refuse to send packages to Canada. Because of the strike Canada Post even sent one package back to China (in protest?) as well. There may have been more of my packages sent back...


It's 66$ (CAD) on AliExpress (or at least when I bought them) and 50$ (USD) on Massdrop (because they only show you the USD price). With the conversion it will cost you 66$ (CAD) and if you factor in shipping it will be 75$ (CAD) plus import fees (maybe? I didn't have to pay for one but I had to for something else). And you have to wait the same time or longer. For Canadians it is not a good deal.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> Lucky guy, looks like Aliexpress was blocking $15+ shipments to Canada during the strike, possibly in the worry that people would ask for cashbacks but still get their products many weeks/months later.
> 
> KZ Global refused to send me an AS10 around 11/27. Then they asked me to pay 1 cent extra for shipping. I don't know what the heck that's about?


Yes, I received my things just before it started going bad. And right now I can see some things on AliExpress that can be shipper to Canada but it's mostly cheap 2$ things that will cost 30$ to ship with DHL (what a good deal). I had some things that I needed but I guess I'll wait


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 8, 2018)

Slater said:


> Is anyone here still using their ZSR?



Definitely still using mine whenever I head outside. They have the perfect amount of low end so the bass never gets lost amidst ambient low frequencies and the detail in the midrange and treble are very well defined. 

Yes, the BA10 is a tier or two above the ZSR but what can I say, I like the ZSR......a lot. I wouldn't mind having a bevy of colors. KZ promised us a blue ZSR which never materialized.......



 

If KZ ever releases more colors for the ZSR they can add my suggestion as well.



 

I think I'll start a little collection of ZSR's (like I did with the ZS6) because $27 a pop is a worthwhile investment. 

p.s. - better synergy with my bright-leaning DAP

post p.s. - perhaps one of the reasons for the development of CCA is the overwhelming demand for KZ to fulfill past promises as they keep moving forward with newer models. At this point it becomes a bit more risky for KZ to experiment with ideas (ZS10 in ZSN-like housing) that may or may not work to their benefit. 

Note that most of these were delivered :


 

ES4 (although they shortchanged mbwilson on the purple)


 


ZSA


 


ED16 


 


ZS10


 


ZS4


 


BTE


 

ED15


 

.. and, apparently, this one went to CCA as the CCA C04 (again, probably because the schedule for fulfilling promises and pushing forward with more models was becoming unmanageable).


 



 


 



Many people don't like the fact that KZ releases so many models in any and every given year but that's how they've done business since the day I hopped aboard the train so I've always known what to expect (multiple releases in rapid fire). I say "keep it coming"and keep moving downfield. It makes for an exciting game.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> Definitely still using mine whenever I head outside. They have the perfect amount of low end so the bass never gets lost amidst ambient low frequencies and the detail in the midrange and treble are very well defined.
> 
> Yes, the BA10 is a tier or two above the ZSR but what can I say, I like the ZSR......a lot. I wouldn't mind having a bevy of colors. KZ promised us a blue ZSR which never materialized.......
> 
> ...



Maybe something is wrong with my ZSR. Perhaps one of the BAs died or something.

Also, I don’t have the BA10; just the BA10’s _cable_. A seller on Aliexpress was selling the cable by itself for a price too good to pass up ($2.87).

It’s a nice copper cable. Not as nice as the purple ZSN’s copper cable, but it looks very similar. It fits the ZSR perfectly.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 8, 2018)

Slater said:


> Maybe something is wrong with my ZSR. Perhaps one of the BAs died or something.



Yeah, that's unfortunate. I really like my ZSR. If you order another set and don't like them then I'll be happy to purchase them from you (if they're green or white, LOL).



Slater said:


> A seller on Aliexpress was selling the cable by itself for a price too good to pass up ($2.87).
> 
> It’s a nice copper cable. Not as nice as the purple ZSN’s copper cable, but it looks very similar. It fits the ZSR perfectly.



BTW, at less than $3 a pop I'd get 10 and dye 2 or 3 of those black to go with a red or white ZSR. Just sayin' (hint...hint).


----------



## voicemaster

DocHoliday said:


> Yeah, that's unfortunate. I really like my ZSR. If you order another set and don't like them then I'll be happy to purchase them from you (if they're green or white, LOL).



I use as10 if I want isolation


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 8, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> I use as10 if I want isolation



My BA10 is better than my ZSR and both isolate well. I just like the fit and comfort of the "barely noticeable" ZSR when I'm out and about. 

I'll get an AS10 eventually but we both know that there is more coming from KZ (and CCA) in the very near future.






I do wish that KZ would take a page from Slater's playbook and offer the ZS7 with the black tri-braid that Podster displayed a few pages back.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Luxed said:


> Yup, that's the main issue that I have with Massdrop too. It always ends me costing way more than I would have if I found it anywhere else.
> 
> It's 66$ (CAD) on AliExpress (or at least when I bought them) and 50$ (USD) on Massdrop (because they only show you the USD price). With the conversion it will cost you 66$ (CAD) and if you factor in shipping it will be 75$ (CAD) plus import fees (maybe? I didn't have to pay for one but I had to for something else). And you have to wait the same time or longer. For Canadians it is not a good deal.


Thanks for clarifying on the Massdrop prices. I think I'll stay away from them... permanently. 

I apologize for linking to/mentioning them.


----------



## SybilLance

May I know if anyone has actual dimension measurements of the the AS10 relative to the ZSN? Or perhaps actual photos of them next to each other, side view? Thanks!


----------



## voicemaster

SybilLance said:


> May I know if anyone has actual dimension measurements of the the AS10 relative to the ZSN? Or perhaps actual photos of them next to each other, side view? Thanks!



They are actually the same size, but zsn has a sloping profile at the back while as10 is more straight and edgy.


----------



## gbrgbr (Dec 13, 2018)

I got a ZSA & ZSR in the last two months. Also a Type-C cable. I've been lurking here for some time.

I wanted a spare cable for my ZSA. I ordered the grey upgrade cable from GearBest. It worked OK, except the IEMs kept falling out ! I wondered why. When I compared the upgrade cable to the original I saw that the connector of original was much slimmer. I thought that the upgrade cable was 'defective' and asked GearBest to look into it.

Then I compared the upgrade cable with the cable that came with the ZSR. The connectors were identical. Also the connector of the Type-C cable was the same as the upgrade cable.

I examined the ZSA and found it did have a slimmer socket & connector. So no KZ replacement cable will fit it properly.
See attached pic. I'm surprised no one here has mentioned this.

Does anyone here know of a replacement/upgrade mic-less cable for the ZSA ?

This is my first post at Head-FI. I'm not a 'audiophile' by any means. My listening is mainly thru :
- Samsung Galaxy S3 that someone gave me (it has a Wolfson DAC) as my DAP. I cannot afford a real DAP.
- My PC, using a IEM.
- I intend getting a new mobile with a Type-C port, that's why the Type-C cable.

I have : Xiaomi Piston 2.0 past two years, KZ ZSA & ZSR recently.
Edit : Used a Kanen-KM92 for years, it was my first IEM.







*EDIT : Looks like the ZSA uses a angled A-paragraph cable !

So if you need a replacement/upgrade/BT/Type-C cable, the A-paragraph (straight) cables should fit the ZSA.
*
See :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2634#post-14656122

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2632#post-14654397


----------



## Luxed

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks for clarifying on the Massdrop prices. I think I'll stay away from them... permanently.
> 
> I apologize for linking to/mentioning them.


Don't apologize for nothing (I know it's your Canadian blood that does that)!

Massdrop sometimes is a really good source of deals for the people in the US and I don't think it is banned in any way so feel free to share the links (and it gives me for example, an opportunity to go there and read non Headfi opinions which will be interesting).
You can stay away from them, that fine, in Canada you won't have a good deal unless it is an item that is only made by them, then you don't have a choice. 
And also, this is only my personnal experience! I don't like ordering things in the US, especially after buying the schiit stack (modi+magni) and having to pay some heafty shipping fees and import charges :/


----------



## SybilLance

Hello and Welcome!

Based alone on what you've discovered, I know you'll do fine in this thread and elsewhere. That piece of information is quite helpful, too.

I'm afraid I'm not overly familiar with cables specific to the ZSA as I don't own one; but my husband took a scalpel and verry carefully shaved off tiny portions off the plastic base around the connectors from the first batch KZ silver upgrade cable until it fit my ZS6. A DIY tip. 

Hope to frequently hear from you. Cheers!


----------



## gbrgbr

SybilLance said:


> I'm afraid I'm not overly familiar with cables specific to the ZSA as I don't own one; but my husband took a scalpel and verry carefully shaved off tiny portions off the plastic base around the connectors from the first batch KZ silver upgrade cable until it fit my ZS6. A DIY tip.



I would like to use the cable with the ZSR too.
That seems to be the only solution tho. I'll try to file it first rather than cut it.
I'll get one more cable. It's only $2.3x on AliExpress, why such a huge diff in price ?


----------



## SybilLance

voicemaster said:


> They are actually the same size, but zsn has a sloping profile at the back while as10 is more straight and edgy.


Thanks so much for the instant response, @voicemaster.

I see that the relatively longer nozzle of the ZSN has this more acute protrusion angle from its shell. This, plus the sloping profile you mention must be the reason why it is so comfortable and such an easy fit for me. Clearly KZ did so many things right with the ZSN.

On the other hand, I anticipate a certain difficulty, fit-wise, with the AS10. For it to have a good fit and for its nozzle to properly align with my ear canal it would have to be pressed further into my ear and that straight and edgy inner portion may exert undue pressure on my concha, leading to pain and discomfort over time.

That's why I can listen to music with the ED16 for only a very short time. 

Oh dear...


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 9, 2018)

gbrgbr said:


> I would like to use the cable with the ZSR too.
> That seems to be the only solution tho. I'll try to file it first rather than cut it.
> I'll get one more cable. It's only $2.3x on AliExpress, why such a huge diff in price ?


You'd need a tiny file and very fine grade sandpaper afterwards.

As for price differences, I can only speculate. What I do is simply search for the lowest price available and from a seller with a high satisfaction rating. Then there's the matter with shipping costs and customs duties. My term for it is bargain-searching. The husband laughingly calls it penny-crimping.


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm curious why you think $50 is not a good deal. The AS10 is $66 on Aliexpress right now. That's a difference of 21 Canadian dollars.
> Aliepress is always better than Massdrop in the product is there. Massdrop isn't for the average consumer. It supports the high end consumer with tons of amazing products and like Supreme, and the back story behind it, it works very well as a service. If someone doesn't like being dinged by extra fees...
> 
> I must have ordered my AS10 at the wrong time (11/11) as Aliexpress told sellers to refuse to send packages to Canada. Because of the strike Canada Post even sent one package back to China (in protest?) as well. There may have been more of my packages sent back...


Its currently 40 on Gearbest with coupon..


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 9, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> What I do is simply search for the lowest price available and from a seller with a high satisfaction rating. My term for it is bargain-searching. The husband laughlingly calls it penny-crimping.


And when you scream at him about him it's called SybilLance.


----------



## durwood (Dec 9, 2018)

Slater said:


> Is anyone here still using their ZSR?
> 
> Also, certain treble frequencies have a flat, compressed, and tinny sound. For example, ride cymbals sound really off - they don’t sound full and natural, but rather more like the cymbals those little mechanical toy monkeys clank together with their hands with. Or like someone is holding their hand on the cymbal, considerably dampening them.





DocHoliday said:


> Definitely still using mine whenever I head outside. They have the perfect amount of low end so the bass never gets lost amidst ambient low frequencies and the detail in the midrange and treble are very well defined.





Slater said:


> Maybe something is wrong with my ZSR.



No, it's not just you. Somewhere in one of my older posts I thought the the ZSR had tinny artificial sounding highs, I didn't notice it until there was something else that sounded a little more natural but had a similar sounding signature. I  think it  is one that cannot be mentioned. I think maybe the ZSR either just has a weird crossover point to avoid some simbilance, so then it does not have the needed harmonics.

Same as Doc, I used it pretty much when I was doing something active outside because they would stay put and had bass that would not get drowned out.

Edit: Found my old post, it was the TRN V20 at the time which is a 2 driver vs a 3 driver comparison where I felt the ZSR had artificial sounding highs.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> Its currently 40 on Gearbest with coupon..


Canadians can't order big tickets online right now. Apparently, the packages due to our postal strike may not come in until March. Thanks for the help though.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 9, 2018)

gbrgbr said:


> I'm not a 'audiophile' by any means. My listening is mainly thru :
> - Samsung Galaxy S3 that someone gave me (it has a Wolfson DAC) as my DAP. I cannot afford a real DAP.


According to this guy, daps may be dead (I.e. niche forever:


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Canadians can't order big tickets online right now. Apparently, the packages due to our postal strike may not come in until March. Thanks for the help though.


Until March ???


----------



## voicemaster

This song sounds amazing on the ZSN.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 9, 2018)

Ya know.......

This little doohickey has been around for several weeks now but there isn't much talk about it. I know there has been some talk.......but not much. 

I'll have to get a set and see if KZ has succeeded in giving us a great single dynamic IEM that seals like a CIEM (for most of us that is).


----------



## gbrgbr

SybilLance said:


> As for price differences, I can only speculate. What I do is simply search for the lowest price available and from a seller with a high satisfaction rating. Then there's the matter with shipping costs and customs duties. My term for it is bargain-searching. The husband laughlingly calls it penny-crimping.



The KZ BA10 Original Cable is type-B (angled) according to KZ, right? So it should fit (after cutting) the ZSA?
Just $3.59 from the VS Audio Store on AE. And, free AliExpress Standard Shipping which I found to be quick and reliable.


----------



## CoiL

SybilLance said:


> Coil, only the vent situated at the inner colored plastic shell of the ZSN was covered. As a matter of fact, I went by the initial assumption that the 3 faceplate holes covered may not have an audible effect, which assumption was in turn partly based on your earlier post about them:


Which hole on the plastic inner side did You cover? The one above the driver which has fabric filter under hole? Or the one nearer to the side of plastic shell?
If the latter one, then there is NO difference in sound. Tested it and no difference. If You heard difference, then it is probably placebo.
But if You covered the vent above driver, then I agree with Your observations.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> What does the oxidation do to the sound, etc?  When you say it doesn't measure so good, are you speaking of the flow of the sound through the cable or does it damage the sound when it's oxidized or can't flow as well?


Look, Your "jokes" are insulting.
I don`t care about oxidization and my point wasn`t about it. I was talking about cable impedance/resistance which can be measured by multimeter and contributes into sound in certain cases.
Most of the time chi-fi cables measure around 0.5-0.8 Ohm and there really is no difference into sound most of times.
Now, I do  not want to discuss and argue about this subject in this forum as I really do not care about what You think. 
But please, respect others input and experience.


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> Which hole on the plastic inner side did You cover? The one above the driver which has fabric filter under hole? Or the one nearer to the side of plastic shell?
> If the latter one, then there is NO difference in sound. Tested it and no difference. If You heard difference, then it is probably placebo.
> But if You covered the vent above driver, then I agree with Your observations.







Sorry wasn't specific enough.


----------



## CYoung234

PhonoPhi said:


> I may be new to this forum, but I've certainly seen nicer comments.
> The consensus I referred to is the strong majority of the opinions including reviews (and importantly here also including my own experience).
> 
> 
> ...



PhonoPhi, I am sorry if my comments offended you. They were not meant to. My personal experience and method for assessing what to buy is not based on figuring out what most people think about something. For that reason, I personally tend to discount posts where people try to conclude that many or most persons say such and such...

Rather, I find posters who, over time, show that what they like and dislike lines up more with my own personal listening experience. I weight their opinions higher than others whose musical tastes and goals are different from mine. I pay attention to what genres of music people listen to, as that affects opinions greatly. I also try to list my musical tastes and what I am looking for in iems when I post my experiences, as I personally find that to be helpful when others list that in their reviews. I personally do not pay much attention to fr curves and such, as they do not tell the whole story or even the real story for me. That is my personal opinion, based on working in the engineering field and being a musician...


----------



## Tihstea (Dec 9, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Thanks so much for the instant response, @voicemaster.
> 
> I see that the relatively longer nozzle of the ZSN has this more acute protrusion angle from its shell. This, plus the sloping profile you mention must be the reason why it is so comfortable and such an easy fit for me. Clearly KZ did so many things right with the ZSN.
> 
> ...



You are completely right. The AS10 is huge for me and I do feel ear pain after wearing them for a while. I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I actually mainly listen to music on my IEMs when I'm walking outside. The AS10 creates such a strong seal, that whenever my cable is dangling around, I can actually hear it catching the corners of my jacket, shirt, etc., and that sound also hurts my ears. This, of course, is even more present when I'm using them with an 8 core TRN cable, which I now regret buying, less so with the stock one. (call me crazy, but I hate the memory plastic thingie around the ear, and I'm considering removing it with a sharp object, on both cables that is). Also, I like the way they sound and all, but (excuse me, for I am an audio noob) they are too forward? sounding. As in, the sound is so close to my brain that it's actually a bit unpleasant. That could be due to the nozzle having to be pressed further into the ear, as you said.

As I said I'm a complete novice and probably tone deaf, but at this current moment I prefer my ATRs over them but possibly because I've used them for such a long time (2 years or so). Yes, I'd say they sound a bit dull, but you know that feeling of relief after needing a scratch. That's exactly what I feel when I switch from the AS10 to the ATR. And that's very sad, since I prefer the sound of the AS10 by far. Also the ATRs weigh considerably less.

All of this combined with me having non-optimal audio sources (which produce some hiss in the AS10) lead me to the following decision: I'm probably buying a ZSN along with a FiiO BTR3 or a  shanling m0, not sure which one yet. But on 12.12 the BTR3 will cost around 60 usd on taobao, and I assume the ZSN will have some price reduction as well. I'm undecided on which ZSN color to buy though, seeing that there is some difference between the models, based on the replies in this thread. People seem to like the purple one and its cable, but they also say the cable is thicker? Which would suggest that my problem with it catching on the edges of my clothing would make it rather unpleasant. If I could, I would get an old school type of cable without any type of edge. Also, call me insane, but buying a separate audio device when you already own a reasonably expensive phone which will always have a better user interface just seems impractical to me. Ergo, my BTR3 choice, which is hopefully a silent source. (Right now I'm using an ancient iphone 4, but I plan on getting an 8 plus, or some random android phone)

Rant over, lots of controversial opinions, I know, but those are my weird preferences, and I am by no means an audio connoisseur.

Can anyone confirm once and for all if there is a difference or not between the different ZSN colors? Also any experience with the BTR3 or shanling m0 as a bluetooth receiver would be quite helpful.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> Look, Your "jokes" are insulting.
> I don`t care about oxidization and my point wasn`t about it. I was talking about cable impedance/resistance which can be measured by multimeter and contributes into sound in certain cases.
> Most of the time chi-fi cables measure around 0.5-0.8 Ohm and there really is no difference into sound most of times.
> Now, I do  not want to discuss and argue about this subject in this forum as I really do not care about what You think.
> But please, respect others input and experience.


If you're going to tell me that you don't like my jokes, at least say so when responding to a post where I actually made a joke. I was asking you a question, ignorantly, as I'm not an audio pro like most of the other people here. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. If you really hate them, quote them and send me a private message so we can discuss them. 

Either way, thanks for the enlightening comments about sound.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 9, 2018)

CYoung234 said:


> PhonoPhi, I am sorry if my comments offended you. They were not meant to. My personal experience and method for assessing what to buy is not based on figuring out what most people think about something. For that reason, I personally tend to discount posts where people try to conclude that many or most persons say such and such...
> 
> Rather, I find posters who, over time, show that what they like and dislike lines up more with my own personal listening experience. I weight their opinions higher than others whose musical tastes and goals are different from mine. I pay attention to what genres of music people listen to, as that affects opinions greatly. I also try to list my musical tastes and what I am looking for in iems when I post my experiences, as I personally find that to be helpful when others list that in their reviews. I personally do not pay much attention to fr curves and such, as they do not tell the whole story or even the real story for me. That is my personal opinion, based on working in the engineering field and being a musician...


CYoung234, I am sorry for my overreaction. I understand that "consensus" was too strong of a word. I never meant it as an opinion to agree but rather as an opinion existing and to be  argued with. (Being in science I rather take a point as a working hypothesis and yes, those curves...)
ZS10 was my first KZ that got me into KZ world 
I missed the treble quite a bit with my KZ10 but I took the useful points on amplification and trying with low impedance sources.
On a simpler plane of existence, I am very happy with my AS10.
That is the greatest strength of KZ that they have all the different models so everyone can find one (or two) for their taste (and KZ prices allows to try a bunch) 

I listen to classical music largely.


----------



## groucho69

LaughMoreDaily said:


> According to this guy, daps may be dead (I.e. niche forever:




Meh


----------



## SybilLance

CYoung234 said:


> PhonoPhi, I am sorry if my comments offended you. They were not meant to. My personal experience and method for assessing what to buy is not based on figuring out what most people think about something. For that reason, I personally tend to discount posts where people try to conclude that many or most persons say such and such...
> 
> Rather, I find posters who, over time, show that what they like and dislike lines up more with my own personal listening experience. I weight their opinions higher than others whose musical tastes and goals are different from mine. I pay attention to what genres of music people listen to, as that affects opinions greatly. I also try to list my musical tastes and what I am looking for in iems when I post my experiences, as I personally find that to be helpful when others list that in their reviews. I personally do not pay much attention to fr curves and such, as they do not tell the whole story or even the real story for me. That is my personal opinion, based on working in the engineering field and being a musician...





PhonoPhi said:


> CYoung234, I am sorry for my overreaction. I understand that "consensus" was too strong of a word. I never meant it as an opinion to agree but rather as an opinion existing and to be  argued with. (Being in science I rather take a point as a working hypothesis and yes, those curves...)
> ZS10 was my first KZ that got me into KZ world
> I missed the treble quite a bit with my KZ10 but I took the useful points on amplification and trying with low impedance sources.
> On a simpler plane of existence, I am very happy with my AS10.
> ...


And I could give you both a hug!

I love this thread!


----------



## Luxed (Dec 9, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> According to this guy, daps may be dead (I.e. niche forever:



I don't agree with him on a lot of points.
First he bought a 1500$ device because it runs Android?
I have a DAP with me because it does NOT run android and I don't have to baby-sit it like my phone.
I think when you start getting into streaming services, buetooth would do fine fo me.
His "solution" is way too bulky for me because the dragonfly would be out of my pockets all the time...
Something's not right the sound quality too: his 1500$ sounds LESS good than the pairing he did with his phone? It weirds me out but may be 100% true, I can't say anything because I haven't tried but I still find it weird.
And also, he pairs a 1500$ DAP with the KZ ATE? I like KZ, but shouldn't you spend more on your iem if you spend that much on your dap?
Overall a weird video that shows another way of listening to music but doesn't convince me at all.

What are your thoughts on his video (everyone else)?

Edit: I can see the guy has multiple videos on the subject. And in its third part, he gives the only solution I would be comfortable with: the LG v30 which is a good phone and a really good music player. But my main complain with this arises: no hardware buttons to control music playback (previous, play pause, next). Most of the buttons presses on my DAP are when the device is IN my pocket not out of it.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 9, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If you're going to tell me that you don't like my jokes, at least say so when responding to a post where I actually made a joke. I was asking you a question, ignorantly, as I'm not an audio pro like most of the other people here. If you don't like my posts, ignore them. If you really hate them, quote them and send me a private message so we can discuss them.
> 
> Either way, thanks for the enlightening comments about sound.



No problem. Just Your jokes can be sometimes taken insulting (sarcastic) and provocating into general thread trashing. Sorry if I responded harsh.
I`m just trying to provide my personal experience and information. If something needs clarifying, then I`m open to answering if asked nicely 

Peace!


----------



## rokushoo

Just finished my first mod on an old favorite, the ATRs.


----------



## HungryPanda

SybilLance said:


> And I could give you both a hug!
> 
> I love this thread!


hugs to all, a big panda one


----------



## CoiL

rokushoo said:


> Just finished my first mod on an old favorite, the ATRs.


Nice! Needs some attention to contact points and I personally would do cover with natural oil.

Btw, why didn`t You change that crappy cable?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> No problem. Just Your jokes can be sometimes taken insulting (sarcastic) and provocating into general thread trashing. Sorry if I responded harsh.
> I`m just trying to provide my personal experience and information. If something needs clarifying, then I`m open to answering if asked nicely


I didn't realize I made enough bad jokes to do that. I'll try my best to stay on topic from now on... the best topic, KZ!


----------



## rokushoo

CoiL said:


> Nice! Needs some attention to contact points and I personally would do cover with natural oil.
> 
> Btw, why didn`t You change that crappy cable?


Yeah I see what you mean about the contact points.The reason why I didn't change the cable is because I don't have a soldering iron.


----------



## loomisjohnson (Dec 9, 2018)

i had actually placed, somewhat reluctantly, the zsr atop my kz pantheon (having not heard the as10 or ba10). great energy/stage/imaging.  i will acknowledge, however that its high end is somewhat "artificial," a characteristic i've found with most kzs other than the ed9/edr1--it's lively but not stage monitor-accurate. the zsn awaits....


----------



## loomisjohnson

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I didn't realize I made enough bad jokes to do that. I'll try my best to stay on topic from now on... the best topic, KZ!


i like your jokes--keep being you


----------



## gbrgbr

gbrgbr said:


> I got a ZSA & ZSR in the last two months. Also a Type-C cable. I've been lurking here for some time.
> 
> I wanted a spare cable for my ZSA. I ordered the grey upgrade cable from GearBest. It worked OK, except the IEMs kept falling out ! I wondered why. When I compared the upgrade cable to the original I saw that the connector of original was much slimmer. I thought that the upgrade cable was 'defective' and asked GearBest to look into it.
> 
> ...



GearBest actually offered me a refund for that order. Feeling a bit guilty since it's not their fault.

Which brings me to this : Why have replaceable cables on the ZSA if there are no replacement cables ? None of the KZ replacement/upgrade cables, Type-C cable or the BT cables can be used. Wonder why KZ did this ?


----------



## Slater (Dec 9, 2018)

gbrgbr said:


> GearBest actually offered me a refund for that order. Feeling a bit guilty since it's not their fault.
> 
> Which brings me to this : Why have replaceable cables on the ZSA if there are no replacement cables ? None of the KZ replacement/upgrade cables, Type-C cable or the BT cables can be used. Wonder why KZ did this ?



My educated guess?

Some other company made the ZSA for KZ, and screwed up on the cable. KZ may have just specified ‘the cable requires a 0.75mm 2-pin connection’, and the other company was unaware KZ already had a specific A and B cable standard for interchangeability with upgrade cables.

Even the shape of the end, it’s angle, and the cable strain design is different than any other KZ models. The ZSA cable really is a one of a kind cable out of all KZ 2-pin models, which is why it screams ‘made by someone else’ to me.

KZ contracts out the manufacture of many of their IEMs to other ODM companies, especially older models.

Supposedly they now have their own factory, but I don’t know which models they make in it and what its production capacity is. It’s highly likely they still contract out  manufacturing to one degree or another.


----------



## Danfish98

It's a shame their USB C cable doesn't fit the ZSA. I brought it and the ES4 with me on my business travels this week. The KZ USB C really wakes the ES4 up. They don't do well with mids on overly compressed modern rock (probably more a function of bad mixing, stupid loudness wars) but the bass and especially highs are fantastic. I wasn't initially a fan of the ES4 but I'm starting to reevaluate...


----------



## Slater (Dec 9, 2018)

Tihstea said:


> This, of course, is even more present when I'm using them with an 8 core TRN cable, which I now regret buying, less so with the stock one. (call me crazy, but I hate the memory plastic thingie around the ear, and I'm considering removing it with a sharp object, on both cables that is).



I removed the ear guides on all of my TRN 8-core cables. It is sooooooo much nicer without the ear guides. I'm jamming with my BQEYZ K2 paired with a TRN 8-core cable as I type this.

The TRN 8-core cables are heavy enough that they don't even need the ear guides. Without the guides, they are softer and infinitely more comfortable (especially when wearing glasses).

You just have to be very careful and go slowly when removing the guides. I use very small and sharp precision micro-sized scissors made for sewing, cut the guide a few mms at a time, and did so under strong light so I could see exactly what I was doing at all times.

_I am not responsible if anyone damages their cables from improper ear guide removal._


----------



## durwood (Dec 9, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm having some problems ordering from Penon Audio, it says "Security header not valid." and won't allow me to make an order.





MrMajony said:


> I happened the same when ordering a zs10, I could only use paypal



Just curious, has anyone else had fraudulent charges on the card they tried to use at Penon if they saw this error? I had this error and ended up using paypal after. The very next day I had 5 charges to the card I tired to use, 3 were dietery supplements, 1 to hulu, and 1 to some lottery. I know it was probably just coincidence and the card was probably hacked well before this, but I can't help but think it's possible. The card is only used for a couple of re-occuring monthly charges and Amazon. I did try to order multiple times until I finally used paypal. I know Penon is a reputable seller, in the back of my mind I was thinking their site may have been hacked. Then again, I think this is the 3rd time this has happened with this credit card company in about a year timeframe.


----------



## voicemaster

durwood said:


> Just curious, has anyone else had fraudulent charges on the card they tried to use at Penon if they saw this error? I had this error and ended up using paypal after. The very next day I had 5 charges to the card I tired to use, 3 were dietery supplements, 1 to hulu, and 1 to some lottery. I know it was probably just coincidence and the card was probably hacked well before this, but I can't help but think it's possible. The card is only used for a couple of re-occuring monthly charges and Amazon. I did try to order multiple times until I finally used paypal. I know Penon is a reputable seller, in the back of my mind I was thinking their site may have been hacked. Then again, I think this is the 3rd time this has happened with this credit card company in about a year timeframe.



You might get hacked or


durwood said:


> Just curious, has anyone else had fraudulent charges on the card they tried to use at Penon if they saw this error? I had this error and ended up using paypal after. The very next day I had 5 charges to the card I tired to use, 3 were dietery supplements, 1 to hulu, and 1 to some lottery. I know it was probably just coincidence and the card was probably hacked well before this, but I can't help but think it's possible. The card is only used for a couple of re-occuring monthly charges and Amazon. I did try to order multiple times until I finally used paypal. I know Penon is a reputable seller, in the back of my mind I was thinking their site may have been hacked. Then again, I think this is the 3rd time this has happened with this credit card company in about a year timeframe.



That's why I always try to use paypal if it is available, no matter from whichever sites (AE, Gearbest, etc).


----------



## MrMajony (Dec 10, 2018)

For me, they charged me $ 80 usd on Apple Store, just after trying to buy Penon's audio. Now I am struggling to try to recover my money, sorry for the bad translation that I am Chilean


----------



## durwood

MrMajony said:


> For me, they charged me $ 80 usd on Apple Store, just after trying to buy Penon's audio. Now I am struggling to try to recover my money, sorry for the bad translation that I am Chilean


 Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I hope you get your money back. Discover card caught it before I did.


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 10, 2018)

I am A/Bing my black/black zsn with clear cable and purple/silver with brown cable and I got a little bit more piercing high from purple/silver with brown cable. The b/b with silver cable also has a tad bit more detail and tighter on the bass. The difference is not easy to hear and I need to repeatedly playing the same part of the track many times. It could also be the effect of larger vent holes which makes the treble more extension on the purple/silver zsn. 
Upon further A/Bing and changing the cable so purple/silver with clear cable and black/black with brown cable, I can say that they are both sound slightly different. My purple/silver has more aggressive treble and this can be heard really clearly regardless of using brown or clear cable. Also, the bass a little bit tighter on purple/silver zsn. I am not sure if the different size vent holes make this much difference, but it is quite fascinating that they both sounds different.


----------



## Zerohour88

KZ AS06 out! finally

usd$42 though, I'd wait for my reseller to have them in stock then (probably for much cheaper)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Monitor-Sport-Headset-Noise/32961214242.html


----------



## 1clearhead

Zerohour88 said:


> KZ AS06 out! finally
> 
> usd$42 though, I'd wait for my reseller to have them in stock then (probably for much cheaper)
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Monitor-Sport-Headset-Noise/32961214242.html


Yup!...is definitely out in China as well! Two stores in taobao carry them, but many other vendors will follow...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 10, 2018)

MrMajony said:


> For me, they charged me $ 80 usd on Apple Store, just after trying to buy Penon's audio. Now I am struggling to try to recover my money, sorry for the bad translation that I am Chilean


Someone recently charged money on the iTunes store as well for me, they were successful and my card was cancelled. There's always that risk when online shopping unfortunately. I think credit card companies do whatever they do and usually give the consumer of their services the break.

PS: Thanks for posting this. I also bought something on Penon Audio's website and had fraud on my credit card. Do you know how long after it happened when you were on Penon's website? I'm going to ask my credit card company as well. Maybe there is a flaw in Penon's website that is allowing people to get credit card information.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> You might get hacked or
> That's why I always try to use paypal if it is available, no matter from whichever sites (AE, Gearbest, etc).


I think worrying about Aliexpress is a little bit much. I've been using their company for years on a ton of purchases and no problems. Yet recently I tried to buy on Penon's website and the order would never go through. Now people are posting about the same problem and fraudulent charges on their credit cards. I won't be buying on Penon's website any longer.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

durwood said:


> Just curious, has anyone else had fraudulent charges on the card they tried to use at Penon if they saw this error? I had this error and ended up using paypal after. The very next day I had 5 charges to the card I tired to use, 3 were dietery supplements, 1 to hulu, and 1 to some lottery.


I had a similar problem happen to my credit card and they were successful buying stuff from the iTunes/Apple store. I'm not sure what else they were successful in doing as I never really asked. I guess I'll find out when I get my paper statement.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> _I am not responsible if anyone damages their cables from improper ear guide removal._


Don't also try doing this when you're wearing the TRN cables as you may end up giving yourself a bad haircut.


----------



## CoiL

Zerohour88 said:


> KZ AS06 out! finally
> 
> usd$42 though, I'd wait for my reseller to have them in stock then (probably for much cheaper)
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Monitor-Sport-Headset-Noise/32961214242.html



Not going to jump @ any KZ before load of impressions surface and consensus is highly positive.


----------



## gbrgbr

Don't know if this has been mentioned here.
Chip Genius reports this for the *KZ Type C* cable :


> Description: USB Composite Device(bestechnic CBHT Audio)
> Device Type: Audio Device
> 
> Protocal Version: USB 2.00
> ...



bestechnic : http://www.bestechnic.com/ (Chinese)

Chip _might_ be BES3100S/BES3101S

My PC has a Realtek ALC892  Audio Controller. The SQ with the KZ Type C cable is def much better. Using via a USB A male to USB C female adapter.


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> Yup!...is definitely out in China as well! Two stores in taobao carry them, but many other vendors will follow...


Cant wait for the reviews...


----------



## Zerohour88

CoiL said:


> Not going to jump @ any KZ before load of impressions surface and consensus is highly positive.



I'm pretty sure that applies to most stuff out there

for example, people who jumped on the Shozy x AAW Pola ($750, electrostatic tech, respected brands joint-venture), this is how crinacle described it: " hot trash. Dark, muffled, veiled, muddy, congested etc. etc. basically every permutation of similar descriptors. Already sounds horrible as it is; is virtually daylight robbery at retail prices"


----------



## blur.png

really interested in the AS06 right now, though the price makes no sense in my country, add another $10 and i could get the AS10, waiting for the first impressions


----------



## TechnoidFR

I wait too...


----------



## Mybutthurts

Price does seem to be very close to the AS10 on some of the AliExpress markets.
At around £34


----------



## Zerohour88

blur.png said:


> really interested in the AS06 right now, though the price makes no sense in my country, add another $10 and i could get the AS10, waiting for the first impressions



on Shopee here, I can get the AS10 for an extra usd$2, lol. Sadly it seems I also have to wait while the price go down like other models and miss the 12.12 sale.


----------



## Conest (Dec 10, 2018)

At this moment AS10 is at 39$ on Gearbest.. (free shipping here)
Definitely gonna buy them as soon as i get my hands on ZSA and ZSN..


----------



## loomisjohnson

the mailman dropped off my zsn this morning and i have to say that i'm very disappointed at how willingly all of you drank the kool aid and bought into the gushing overpraise for these beats wannabes. good, i suppose, if you like murky, shrill-sounding bass cannons with muddled imaging, but  those of us over age 12 can stick to our rock zircons. genuinely dreadful ...
...just kidding--they sound really good (and, i might add, loud). i'll give 'em a long listen and pull out my zsr to compare, then post my (probably unwanted) impressions anon.


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> the mailman dropped off my zsn this morning and i have to say that i'm very disappointed at how willingly all of you drank the kool aid and bought into the gushing overpraise for these beats wannabes. good, i suppose, if you like murky, shrill-sounding bass cannons with muddled imaging, but  those of us over age 12 can stick to our rock zircons. genuinely dreadful ...
> ...just kidding--they sound really good (and, i might add, loud). i'll give 'em a long listen and pull out my zsr to compare, then post my (probably unwanted) impressions anon.


----------



## TechnoidFR

B9Scrambler said:


>



It's strange but now I don't like zsr. The treble sounds too high and too artificial for me


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 10, 2018)

blur.png said:


> really interested in the AS06 right now, though the price makes no sense in my country, add another $10 and i could get the AS10, waiting for the first impressions


I want to see more references to other brands models as well (comparing wise). I don't see a lot of that here and it's disappointing. I know it's a KZ thread and all but it would be nice to know how well the models hold up to other brands. I have seen some of the members names here in other brands forums so I know they do flirt around with other brands behind KZ's back.

I would do it myself but I mainly stick to KZ because of being burned by Audiobudget, etc and other peoples reviews.


----------



## HungryPanda

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want to see more references to other brands models as well (comparing wise). I don't see a lot of that here and it's disappointing. I know it's a KZ thread and all but it would be nice to know how well the models hold up to other brands. I have seen some of the members names here in other brands forums so I know they do flirt around with other brands behind KZ's back.


We are an unfaithful lot in our search audio nirvana


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want to see more references to other brands models as well (comparing wise). I don't see a lot of that here and it's disappointing. I know it's a KZ thread and all but it would be nice to know how well the models hold up to other brands. I have seen some of the members names here in other brands forums so I know they do flirt around with other brands behind KZ's back.



You need to go to the Hidden Gems thread for that.  Too many threads to keep up with... because there are too many choices.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> At this moment AS10 is at 39$ on Gearbest.. (free shipping here)
> Definitely gonna buy them as soon as i get my hands on ZSA and ZSN..


Why wait? Swipe that credit card! I did. 

Maybe not a smart idea though. I'm still waiting for all three, weeks later...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm pretty sure that applies to most stuff out there
> 
> for example, people who jumped on the Shozy x AAW Pola ($750, electrostatic tech, respected brands joint-venture), this is how crinacle described it: " hot trash. Dark, muffled, veiled, muddy, congested etc. etc. basically every permutation of similar descriptors. Already sounds horrible as it is; is virtually daylight robbery at retail prices"


Wow, now I want to hear them! I hope I can find a sucker locally who has them.


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why wait? Swipe that credit card! I did.
> 
> Maybe not a smart idea though. I'm still waiting for all three, weeks later...


Lol.. you're the one who made me buy that ZSN when i was controlling myself
But Black AS10 is on sale right now and i want that Aqua/cyan one..
Just waiting for those two to arrive..
Then i will buy AS10 and AS06 both..


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 10, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> the mailman dropped off my zsn this morning and i have to say that i'm very disappointed at how willingly all of you drank the kool aid and bought into the gushing overpraise for these beats wannabes. good, i suppose, if you like murky, shrill-sounding bass cannons with muddled imaging, but  those of us over age 12 can stick to our rock zircons. genuinely dreadful ...
> ...just kidding--they sound really good (and, i might add, loud). i'll give 'em a long listen and pull out my zsr to compare, then post my (probably unwanted) impressions anon.



OMG you had me going.  I, for about 10 seconds, was genuinely worried about you. Lol

Anyway,  yes they are the loudest IEM I own.  On my cayin n5, I'm usually in high gain at 35/100 to 40/100, but on ZSN I am at 23/100 to 27/100 depending on genre and mp3 or flac.


----------



## voicemaster

BadReligionPunk said:


> OMG you had me going.  I, for about 10 seconds, was genuinely worried about you. Lol
> 
> Anyway,  yes they are the loudest IEM I own.  On my cayin n5, I'm usually in high gain at 35/100 to 40/100, but on ZSN I am at 23/100 to 27/100 depending on genre and mp3 or flac.



My loudest KZ is the AS10 with ZSN and ZS6 at 2nd place.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 10, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> My loudest KZ is the AS10 with ZSN and ZS6 at 2nd place.


What the heck does that mean? Sibilance? Purity...? Orgasmic?!

Sorry for asking a dumb question. I just use a basic Zishan Z1/Z3/Walnut V2S.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I have a question... Why is the Cyan so popular? All my IEM's are black and the only that I wish wasn't was the TRN V20 (grey is better).


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What the heck does that mean? Sibilance? Purity...? Orgasmic?!
> 
> Sorry for asking a dumb question. I just use a basic Zishan Z1/Z3/Walnut V2S.



Just volume wise. With same volume level on my pc at 100% then my liquid carbon at 10 o'clock, the AS10 is louder than all my other KZ (ZSN, ZS6, ZSR, ZST and ZS3).


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Does anyone feel let down by AS06? After all that teqsing they just look like watered down AS10s. Maybe the first impressions will prove me wrong but those specs aren't tempting at all especially when one can buy AS10s by adding slightly more.


----------



## CoiL

Well, specs mean nothing in chi-fi. ZSN is "killing" their top IEMs.
Price also mean nothing in chi-fi as very cheap ones can actually sound better than overpriced/hyped ones.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 11, 2018)

Dani157 said:


> Does anyone feel let down by AS06? After all that teqsing they just look like watered down AS10s. Maybe the first impressions will prove me wrong but those specs aren't tempting at all especially when one can buy AS10s by adding slightly more.



On the contrary, even though we all have to wait to hear it, the AS06 could offer an interesting sound signature that KZ has overlooked for a quite a while (despite the fact that I've been asking). The AS06 has a low frequency BA, mid frequency BA and a mid-to-high BA which could very well make the sound signature mid-centric like one of KZ's best single dynamic in-ears, the HDS1. 

The high frequency BA (30095) is missing in action so the upper-treble should be rolled off just like the HDS1. KZ's new low frequency BA is clean and deep so the low end should be admirable and quite an upgrade from the HDS1 which lacked the low end rumble that we all crave. The mid frequency BA and the mid-to-high frequency BA will likely concentrate the focus on the "midrange" similar to the HDS1 sound signature and if the BA10 is anything to go by then the upper- and lower-midrange should be rich, warm and detailed. To my ears the HDS1 has a mildly inverted "V" sound signature and perhaps this is what KZ is tuning the AS06 to mimic. 




 

If I am correct then many of you that never had the opportunity to pick up an HDS1 can finally own a mid-centric and vocal-oriented KZ. I will say that if this will be your first opportunity to hear KZ's low frequency BA (meaning that you have not heard an AS10 or BA10 yet) then you will definitely be in for a treat. It's ridiculously good for something so inexpensive. 

It's all conjecture on my part but if I am correct then we should be getting an HDS1 with higher resolution, improved layering and improved imaging.

HDS1


Spoiler





 


 






The HDS1 soundstage has always been somewhat intimate. Apparently, KZ went with the plastic/resin housing that is completely sealed with no faceplate vents like the original HDS1 so I expect the AS06 to have an average soundstage width and average depth. 



 

Nevertheless, it should be quite a change from the typical "V" shaped sound signature.

Again, all conjecture if you will but it all seems logical given the AS06 hardware and materials.



 

If the AS06 is an upgrade offering of the original HDS1 then I expect to see KZ snatch a few more customers from their unsuspecting competition. 







*** edit ***

Just being me but I'm secretly hoping KZ will take the same route they took with the AS10/BA10 release. Offer one in resin (AS06) and offer one in aluminum  (BA06). KZ can repurpose the ZSA housing with a slight variation in order to offer a BA06 in aluminum housing with a different set of colors (ZS6 vs ZS7). An AS06 could maybe have more mid-bass punch and the BA06 could take a cleaner approach, a la AS10/BA10. 

hint.......hint KZ!


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want to see more references to other brands models as well (comparing wise). I don't see a lot of that here and it's disappointing. I know it's a KZ thread and all but it would be nice to know how well the models hold up to other brands. I have seen some of the members names here in other brands forums so I know they do flirt around with other brands behind KZ's back.
> 
> I would do it myself but I mainly stick to KZ because of being burned by Audiobudget, etc and other peoples reviews.



It depends on what kind of sound you’re after, and what you’re budget is. Also, depends on what you like and what you don’t like about KZ.

I have a bunch of non-KZs that I like. I’m listening to a pair right now


----------



## groucho69

DocHoliday said:


> On the contrary, even though we all have to wait to hear it, the AS06 could offer an interesting sound signature that KZ has overlooked for a quite a while (despite the fact that I've been asking). The AS06 has a low frequency BA, mid frequency BA and a mid-to-high BA which could very well make the sound signature mid-centric like one of KZ's best single dynamic in-ears, the HDS1.
> 
> The high frequency BA (30095) is missing in action so the upper-treble should be rolled off just like the HDS1. KZ's new low frequency BA is clean and deep so the low end should be admirable and quite an upgrade from the HDS1 which lacked the low end rumble that we all crave. The mid frequency BA and the mid-to-high frequency BA will likely concentrate the focus on the "midrange" similar to the HDS1 sound signature and if the BA10 is anything to go by then the upper- and lower-midrange should be rich, warm and detailed. To my ears the HDS1 has a mildly inverted "V" sound signature and perhaps this is what KZ is tuning the AS06 to mimic.
> 
> ...



Wow. Great accessories!


----------



## Slater (Dec 10, 2018)

Attn KZ owners:

So my TRN BT20 showed up today (ordered during 11.11).

Initial impressions:

The packaging is a step up from the average TRN product. The split charging cable is slick.

The BT20 themselves appear to be well built.

They are very low latency; perfectly usable with movies and videos from my iPhone.

The fit is quite comfortable (even with glasses). I have not had them long enough to know the battery life on a full charge yet. I also have not made any phone calls with them, so I don't know how well they'll fare with the microphones being behind the ear. I suspect below average microphone performance, but I won't care either way because I bought them for the purpose of listening to music totally wirelessly.

The range is excellent. I was able to walk from my basement (where my phone was) all the way to my car parked on the street outside my house with no hiccup or drop at all.

So far I've tried them with the KZ ZS4, KZ ZSN, BQEYZ K2, BQEYZ KB1, and an aluminum quad driver IEM. I do plan on trying them with some more IEMs, to see which have the best synergy.

*So far the standout pairing is with the KZ ZSN*. The BT20 has no trouble driving the ZSN (as loud as I want to go), and the plug fits tightly (and looks fine). They sound great with the ZSN (I am assuming my iPhone is using AAC mode).

Best ChiFi product I've bought in 2 years. The BT20 has made my other bluetooth IEM gear obsolete - Meizu EP52, multiple KZ bluetooth cable iterations, TRN BT3, TRN BT10, Bluedio TN, some crap Baseus and Awei IEMs, and the Xiaomi bluetooth adapter (however I will still use them for earbuds and full size headphones).


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Attn KZ owners:
> 
> So my TRN BT20 showed up today (ordered during 11.11).
> 
> ...



I have also ordered a pair 2 days ago. Good to know that they have low latency. I am wondering if you can wear only 1 side like most headset do.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 10, 2018)

Yep.  BT20 is the bomb.  Used it all day today with v20. It sounds right with everything. Very stable.  Have only dropped a couple of times over 40 hours.
I'm thinking about ordering the mmcx  now. BTW.  I have used it on calls and haven't needed to repeat myself.  Don't know how they could be good,  but I guess they are OK.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> I have also ordered a pair 2 days ago. Good to know that they have low latency. I am wondering if you can wear only 1 side like most headset do.



Yes, 1 side works.

It seems to prefer the left side for a lot of stuff. But I can test it to see if only the right side is able to work by itself. Not that I care or need that capability. Just lemme know if you want me to test something.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Yes, 1 side works.
> 
> It seems to prefer the left side for a lot of stuff. But I can test it to see if only the right side is able to work by itself. Not that I care or need that capability. Just lemme know if you want me to test something.



It has very low latency from bt 5.0? Doesn't say anything about aptx or ldac.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yep.  BT20 is the bomb.  Used it all day today with v20. It sounds right with everything. Very stable.  Have only dropped a couple of times over 40 hours.
> I'm thinking about ordering the mmcx  now. BTW.  I have used it on calls and haven't needed to repeat myself.  Don't know how they could be good,  but I guess they are OK.



I'm happy they fit EVERY IEM - TRN, BQEYZ, and ALL KZs including the A type, B type, and ZSN.

It just proves to me how unnecessary it was for KZ to have both an A and B type of 2-pin plug. They could have easily had just 1 size of plug. Instead we are forced to choose between specific upgrade cables with specific IEMs.


----------



## Slater (Dec 10, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> It has very low latency from bt 5.0? Doesn't say anything about aptx or ldac.



I visually see no delay between the audio and lip movement. So yeah, it's got what I consider a low latency.

I don't think it has "aptX low latency" certification. But even if not, a product doesn't need that to have a 'latency' that is 'low'.

Also, my iphone does not have BT 5.0. It's just an iPhone SE. So BT 4.2 I believe.


----------



## voicemaster

My phone both has bt 5.0 (note 9 and sony xz premium), but my pc still bt 4.0 i believe.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> I visually see no delay between the audio and lip movement. So yeah, it's got what I consider a low latency.
> 
> I don't think it has "aptX low latency" certification. But even if not, a product doesn't need that to have a 'latency' that is 'low'.
> 
> Also, my iphone does not have BT 5.0. It's just an iPhone SE. So BT 4.2 I believe.


hang on...you're still on an Iphone SE?!


----------



## Slater (Dec 10, 2018)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> hang on...you're still on an Iphone SE?!



Yeah, it's only a year old. Works great.

Has 128GB, I paid $249 (NIB), supports the latest iOS, has a 3.5mm jack, guts of a 6S, great battery life, and it's perfectly pocket-able. Does everything I need it to do, at a down-to-earth price. It's a huge improvement over my previous phone (HTC Droid Incredible I used for 7 years).

It's also the same model as my daughter's. So if she loses or breaks hers, I give her mine and daddy gets a nice new phone. That's honestly the primary reason I'm using an SE.

And so this stays on topic, I love the fact it still has a 3.5mm jack so I can listen to those sweet sweet KZ IEMs like the ZSN!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Yeah, it's only a year old. Works great.
> 
> Has 128GB, I paid $249 (NIB), supports the latest iOS, has a 3.5mm jack, guts of a 6S, great battery life, and it's perfectly pocket-able. Does everything I need it to do, at a down-to-earth price.


Dude...I have a ZTE Axon that I bought directly from China...it's over 2 years old...
I don't even know what an "iphone SE" means lol, I just figured it would be funny to poop on WHATEVER phone you happen to have.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> Yeah, it's only a year old. Works great.
> 
> Has 128GB, I paid $249 (NIB), supports the latest iOS, has a 3.5mm jack, guts of a 6S, great battery life, and it's perfectly pocket-able. Does everything I need it to do, at a down-to-earth price.
> 
> ...



But it has a poor quality sound no ? Have you try lightning cable kz ?


----------



## Swy05

I'm interested in the TRN BT20.  Dont have any bluetooth earphones for the gym, so was hoping this would fit the bill.

However, I'm not sure if I need to get the .75mm or the .78mm.

I have a bunch of KZs (es4, zsn, zsr) and a few other iems (trn v20 and revonext qt2).

Which size would fit all of these?


----------



## Slater (Dec 10, 2018)

TechnoidFR said:


> But it has a poor quality sound no ? Have you try lightning cable kz ?



The audio is fine with me. The SE actually has respectable audio specs if you look it up. Super low impedance too, which pairs well with even my most sensitive IEMs.

I have a dedicated DAP for serious listening. The SE is primarily for bluetooth.

I have not tried the lightning KZ cable. Despite it being able to work on the SE, I just assumed that was primarily designed for newer models that don't have the 3.5mm jack.

The SE works great with everything I've thrown at it, including all KZ models I own.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> The audio is fine with me. The SE actually has respectable audio specs if you look it up. Super low impedance too, which pairs well with even my most sensitive IEMs.
> 
> I have a dedicated DAP for serious listening. The SE is primarily for bluetooth.
> 
> The SE works great with everything I've thrown at it, including all KZ models I own.



You must try meizu. The sound is really awesome


----------



## Slater

Swy05 said:


> I'm interested in the TRN BT20.  Dont have any bluetooth earphones for the gym, so was hoping this would fit the bill.
> 
> However, I'm not sure if I need to get the .75mm or the .78mm.
> 
> ...



0.75mm is the golden ticket for you, sir


----------



## Swy05

Slater said:


> 0.75mm is the golden ticket for you, sir



Thank you sir!


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> 0.75mm is the golden ticket for you, sir


Damn i got the .78mm one.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Damn i got the .78mm one.



Not the end of the world. 0.78mm will still work perfectly fine. No sweat


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Not the end of the world. 0.78mm will still work perfectly fine. No sweat


I like it tight if you know what I mean


----------



## HungryPanda (Dec 10, 2018)

Boom Boom


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> Attn KZ owners:
> 
> So my TRN BT20 showed up today (ordered during 11.11).
> 
> ...



I concur!  It sounds awesome on a whole range of KZ's.    ZS5, ZS6, ED16,  ZS10, ZS4, AS10.   

It has a lot of power to drive IEMs too. My ZS10 which is the least sensitive of my earphones, gets to "loud" to my ears at about 60~65% mark of the Bluetooth volume on my phone. 

Likewise for range,  I could do about 20 meters with eye level partitions in between with no drop-offs.    

Do note however, comfort wise, its not the best when mounted on the ZS4 due to the angling of its connector. It was 'hot' after 20~30 minutes of use.   
I had the best comfort wise on the ZS10 and AS10.  ZS5 and ZS6, then followed by ED16.  The ZS4 being last in the order. 

I have yet to test the various codex options I have on my phone though. The "Developer Option" on my Android phone allows me to try all the different codex that the phone has ( AAC, LDAC, ApX-HD, etc, etc, but I have yet to venture there as I use the BT20 almost exclusively on the commute. Maybe about 20% of its use time is while I'm seated at my desk. 

Will have to give that a round through to see what happens.  

As for the question on using only 1 side ?  It can be paired with the phone individually. I discovered that when I couldn't get the left and right to pair correctly initially. Left or Right will pair and transmit sound through. The talking mike part wasn't tested so can't confirm that.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 10, 2018)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> hang on...you're still on an Iphone SE?!


Hey! Stop making fun of Slater! I was just listening to music on a KZ ATR yesterday! Make fun of me! Spare him!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 10, 2018)

delete.


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want to see more references to other brands models as well (comparing wise). I don't see a lot of that here and it's disappointing. I know it's a KZ thread and all but it would be nice to know how well the models hold up to other brands. I have seen some of the members names here in other brands forums so I know they do flirt around with other brands behind KZ's back.
> 
> I would do it myself but I mainly stick to KZ because of being burned by Audiobudget, etc and other peoples reviews.



as you said yourself, its a KZ thread. There's the sub-100 chi fi thread, main chi-fi thread and now the discovery thread (slowly turning into chi-fi thread too), not to mention the new NiceHCK and BQEYZ thread. 

There's too many brands out there to reliable compare and wait for reviews for. Plus the added stigma of "KZ hype" is gonna cloud whatever comparison made. Its reaching of point of KZ=Beats, or something.


----------



## SybilLance

I'm in a quandary.

I had just sprung a godly amount for a heavy duty KitchenAid (been putting it through its paces and I'm eating the results right now—verdict: Wonderful!) but then a while ago I happened to glance at the cyan AS10 in my Lazada cart and it's being sold for the equivalent of ~US $36.37 for the current 12.12 sale. With my remaining 12% discount voucher it gets knocked down to ~$32.00 plus $2.29 shipping fee.

All I need to do is order 1 more item, like a set of 5 pairs of foam tips (~$2.30) and I get free shipping.





Now the husband and I agreed we'll each spend on only 1 item for ourselves this December and no extras on the side, but temptation is cruel.

I've been trying to look for ways to convince myself the AS10 won't be a comfortable fit for my ears but then that voice at the back of my head keeps saying it is.

Oh my..!


----------



## Zerohour88

Dani157 said:


> Does anyone feel let down by AS06? After all that teqsing they just look like watered down AS10s. Maybe the first impressions will prove me wrong but those specs aren't tempting at all especially when one can buy AS10s by adding slightly more.



uh, no? since from the beginning and even the name is literally to imply that its a lower model compared to AS10? 10 is bigger than 6, unless my maths is wrong.

also Doc's post is also exactly why I was waiting for this model. One BA responsible for each low, mids and highs, now that's what I want to see.

the price was a bit of letdown, since I expected RRP of usd$30. Though that does mean instead of another instant purchase, I'll have to wait for both more sellers and impressions to come out.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 10, 2018)

Slater said:


> Yeah, it's only a year old. Works great.
> 
> Has 128GB, I paid $249 (NIB), supports the latest iOS, has a 3.5mm jack, guts of a 6S, great battery life, and it's perfectly pocket-able. Does everything I need it to do, at a down-to-earth price. It's a huge improvement over my previous phone (HTC Droid Incredible I used for 7 years).
> 
> ...





TechnoidFR said:


> But it has a poor quality sound no ? Have you try lightning cable kz ?





Slater said:


> The audio is fine with me. The SE actually has respectable audio specs if you look it up. Super low impedance too, which pairs well with even my most sensitive IEMs.
> 
> I have a dedicated DAP for serious listening. The SE is primarily for bluetooth.
> 
> ...


Echo this.

The innards of an iPhone 6S crammed into the body of an iPhone 5. The last of the iPhones with the 3.5 mm analog audio jack. Actually better measured performance insofar as signal above noise and distortion are concerned, than most other phones, actually tested and confirmed. As for the 6S, under real-world conditions, too.

And yes, sounds phenomenal when listening to the ZSN with EQ off.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Zerohour88 said:


> uh, no? since from the beginning and even the name is literally to imply that its a lower model compared to AS10? 10 is bigger than 6, unless my maths is wrong.
> 
> also Doc's post is also exactly why I was waiting for this model. One BA responsible for each low, mids and highs, now that's what I want to see.
> 
> the price was a bit of letdown, since I expected RRP of usd$30. Though that does mean instead of another instant purchase, I'll have to wait for both more sellers and impressions to come out.


Completely agree there. Will wait for initial impressions and who knows KZ may launch a model which will undercut AS06


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Hey! Stop making fun of Slater! I was just listening to music on a KZ ATR yesterday! Make fun of me! Spare him!


Be careful...you don't know the legend of Slater.
You must never say his name three posts in a row or he appears suddenly in your house, they say he has teeeeny tiny screwdrivers for fingers and he maniacally will begin disassembling all your headphones and reconfigure them...he makes your closed backs into open backs, he shoots laser glue out of his eyes....
that's what they say anyway....


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Cruelhand Luke said:


> Be careful...you don't know the legend of Slater.
> You must never say his name three posts in a row or he appears suddenly in your house, they say he has teeeeny tiny screwdrivers for fingers and he maniacally will begin disassembling all your headphones and reconfigure them...he makes your closed backs into open backs, he shoots laser glue out of his eyes....
> that's what they say anyway....



I've never been brave enough or get my hands dirty with intense audio gear DIY, but I do respect the wonders they can work. So to the thought of having the venerable Slader ransack my audio collection and tune my gear for better soundstage, I say: "Sure, come on in! Do to my gear what I could never bring myself to do... but leave the Superlux HD668B alone even if you know how to mod 'em."


----------



## CoiL

Cruelhand Luke said:


> hang on...you're still on an Iphone SE?!





Cruelhand Luke said:


> Dude...I have a ZTE Axon that I bought directly from China...it's over 2 years old...
> I don't even know what an "iphone SE" means lol, I just figured it would be funny to poop on WHATEVER phone you happen to have.


LOL... I have LG P500 "optimus one" from 2010 and still going strong. Looks like new.
Mind though, I only use it for calling, sms and GPS (iGO). For music there is only DX5X.

Sorry for OT.


----------



## cstriker045 (Dec 11, 2018)

Hey guys,

Been a lurker for awhile and planning on ordering 1-2 cheap pairs. Do all KZ headphones include the Starline tips, or just certain models? Also, if anyone knows a site just for the tips that would be helpful, as I'm debating getting a different pair but I want to try them with these tips.


----------



## dondonut

cstriker045 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Been a lurker for awhile and planning on ordering 1-2 cheap pairs. Do all KZ headphones include the Starline tips, or just certain models? Also, if anyone knows a site just for the tips that would be helpful, as I'm debating getting a different pair but I want to try them with these tips.



Try this one: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/252969823455 
I remember ordering those a year or two ago and still have leftovers, seem to be the same as supplied with some KZs (ZST if i recall correctly). For some reason I do have some grey and black starlines, they feel the same though.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dondonut said:


> Try this one: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/252969823455
> I remember ordering those a year or two ago and still have leftovers, seem to be the same as supplied with some KZs (ZST if i recall correctly). For some reason I do have some grey and black starlines, they feel the same though.


Just so you know, those cheap starlines on Ebay don't stretch and they're a bitch to put on.


----------



## dondonut

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Just so you know, those cheap starlines on Ebay don't stretch and they're a bitch to put on.



I've been using those succesfully on most of my IEMs. For me they stretch just fine and I've put them on nozzles up to 6mm (sometimes with a bit of effort). I remember when I got them I compared them directly with the starlines I gotten with one of my KZs and iirc I couldnt really tell a difference (no way to tell them apart now). Might be wrong tho.


----------



## CoiL

Wow... my lucky orders just ended. Instead another ZSN I got 3 pairs of cheap colorful-glassed plastic sunglasses! COOL... not! -.- 
Bought from gearbest. Hopefully they will send another one.


----------



## BCool

My AS10s arrived and I really like them! Great detail, isolation and powerful bass. I ordered them with the standard cables (intending to replace them) but they're much nicer than I was expecting. Is there anyway I can get the mic version on it's own? or a similar cable with volume control? That's the only sticking point that's stopping them 100% becoming my daily drivers


----------



## gbrgbr

Are KZ IEMs (primarily) designed to be used with mobile phones ?
Or with DAPs (maybe with amp)/Computers/whatever ?

Or, does the source not really matter (when designing the IEM).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> as you said yourself, its a KZ thread. There's the sub-100 chi fi thread, main chi-fi thread and now the discovery thread (slowly turning into chi-fi thread too), not to mention the new NiceHCK and BQEYZ thread.
> 
> There's too many brands out there to reliable compare and wait for reviews for. Plus the added stigma of "KZ hype" is gonna cloud whatever comparison made. Its reaching of point of KZ=Beats, or something.


True, I guess quick comparisons would be a good fit still though. Like if all the chatter was only about KZ and no one talked about well so and so model at this company is over all better but this KZ definitely much better in this aspect, etc. 

I mean this KZ forum isn't as active as others. Headfi was also more active with the old forum vs the new, it was just easier and more pleasant to use. It was a true addiction. Now a days, it's not that addicting, it's more about the quality of communication like the type that always pops up in this thread with the high quality members using it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 11, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Wow... my lucky orders just ended. Instead another ZSN I got 3 pairs of cheap colorful-glassed plastic sunglasses! COOL... not! -.-
> Bought from gearbest. Hopefully they will send another one.


Wow, you got ripped off big time.  I've heard bad things about Gearbest. At least Aliexpress is a third party that protects the seller and buyer "equally"?

PS: How are they supposed to send another one when you didn't get one in the first place? I would call your credit card company, asap but after speaking with Gearbest.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gbrgbr said:


> Are KZ IEMs (primarily) designed to be used with mobile phones ?
> Or with DAPs (maybe with amp)/Computers/whatever ?
> 
> Or, does the source not really matter (when designing the IEM).


It doesn't matter but what does matter is the quality of each, the headphones and dap/mobile phone/computer, etc.


----------



## Mellowship

gbrgbr said:


> Are KZ IEMs (primarily) designed to be used with mobile phones ?
> Or with DAPs (maybe with amp)/Computers/whatever ?
> 
> Or, does the source not really matter (when designing the IEM).



KZ is a mixed bag of many IEM and some iterations. They don't seem to be designed with a source in mind, but some sound pretty well with low-powered sources and others really need some degree of impedance-matching and/or current to deliver.

Take the ZS3, for instance. It was a fairly priced IEM, with a very comfy shell and a great isolation. Soudwise, the first impressions were mixed... people using them with smartphones were reporting bloated bass, recessed treble, J-shaped frequency curve. Others were saying that it was really a bargain, with a great soundstage and good treble, V-shaped but with clear enough mids and a sensation of spaciousness. When I got my first pair, I understood what the impressions were all about. They need powerful DAP/AMP. Out of the box, it is poorly designed. The red tissue mesh in the nozzle bloats too much of the low frequencies. Some models had a very small foam inserted in the nozzle. The cables were a rubbery nightmare. The included tips only contributed to water down the mids. Some units had a collapsed tube inside that acted like a muffler. But then, you take the mesh off with a needle (and leave them open or substitute with a steel mesh), take the foam off, put silicone tips with wider bore, connect them to a better cable like the copper silver plated brown KZ type-A, and plug them to a low-impedance source with lots of power to spare and they are great.

Same thing applies to the ZS5v1. They need lots of juice. LOTS!

As for newer IEMs, like the ZSN or the AS10, they are better designed and not bad at all with sources with lower power. It will depend more on the quality of the recording/mastering/file, and the quality of the DAC.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 11, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Wow, you got ripped off big time.  I've heard bad things about Gearbest. At least Aliexpress is a third party that protects the seller and buyer "equally"?
> 
> PS: How are they supposed to send another one when you didn't get one in the first place? I would call your credit card company, asap but after speaking with Gearbest.



I have ordered A LOT from gearbest and no problems until now. I went straight for PayPal resolution center and created a case with proof picture. Usually paypal should deal with such things fast and without hassle.


----------



## Slater (Dec 11, 2018)

Mellowship said:


> KZ is a mixed bag of many IEM and some iterations. They don't seem to be designed with a source in mind, but some sound pretty well with low-powered sources and others really need some degree of impedance-matching and/or current to deliver.
> 
> Take the ZS3, for instance. It was a fairly priced IEM, with a very comfy shell and a great isolation. Soudwise, the first impressions were mixed... people using them with smartphones were reporting bloated bass, recessed treble, J-shaped frequency curve. Others were saying that it was really a bargain, with a great soundstage and good treble, V-shaped but with clear enough mids and a sensation of spaciousness. When I got my first pair, I understood what the impressions were all about. They need powerful DAP/AMP. Out of the box, it is poorly designed. The red tissue mesh in the nozzle bloats too much of the low frequencies. Some models had a very small foam inserted in the nozzle. The cables were a rubbery nightmare. The included tips only contributed to water down the mids. Some units had a collapsed tube inside that acted like a muffler. But then, you take the mesh off with a needle (and leave them open or substitute with a steel mesh), take the foam off, put silicone tips with wider bore, connect them to a better cable like the copper silver plated brown KZ type-A, and plug them to a low-impedance source with lots of power to spare and they are great.
> 
> ...



Well said!

Spot on with the ZS3.

I will also add KZ had literally just released their Bluetooth cable, right when the ZS5 v1 and ZS3 came out. And both of those IEMs require plenty of power and impedance matching to perform their best.

Because the Bluetooth module was weak and unreliable, it made both of those IEMs sound even worse and just left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouth.

That was definitely a rough patch in KZs history. It took people a long time to understand their quirks and appreciate those models. Nowadays the ZS5 v1 is regraded by many as a rare classic.

The ZS3 isn’t awesome, but it isn’t horrible either. When modded and giving enough power, it’s actually not bad at all. Especially when compared to the other models KZ had released around the same time - ATR, ATES, etc.

I think KZ definitely learned from the ZS5 v1 and ZS3 mistakes. I’m willing to bet KZ made some changes to the new ZS3E Special Edition.

Not from that standpoint that they don’t repeat the past, but rather to reset expectations in a way.


----------



## gbrgbr

Thanks @Mellowship & @Slater.

Does the ZSA sound very much better with more power ?
I used the KSR with the KZ Type-C cable and now cannot go back to the orig cable.

If it's worth it, I will buy another Type-C cable and mod it for the ZSA.

btw, just saw one review at GearBest with single star rating because "the earpiece falls off". LOL. 
Connector problem (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2619#post-14647438)


----------



## 1clearhead

BadReligionPunk said:


> *OMG you had me going.  I, for about 10 seconds, was genuinely worried about you. Lol*
> 
> Anyway,  yes they are the loudest IEM I own.  On my cayin n5, I'm usually in high gain at 35/100 to 40/100, but on ZSN I am at 23/100 to 27/100 depending on genre and mp3 or flac.


Gosh!...spilled my drink!


----------



## dondonut

Kz ZSN arrived in country of destination, eager to try them! Furthermore, I converted my brother to ChiFi by letting him listen to my BQ3 hehe.. he ordered them soon after


----------



## loomisjohnson (Dec 11, 2018)

First Drive: KZ ZSN

Externalities: With these and the ZS4, KZ has noticeably upped its aesthetic game--the ZSN has a (relatively) premium look and feel; the braided (nylon?)-covered cable is considerably nicer than its plastic predecessors, with a  memory portion that's actually usable. Headshells are large and heavy, but surprisingly comfortable, and fit is much easier and sleeker than the bulbous, awkward-fitting zsr/as10 or odd-shaped zs5/zs6.  I found isolation to be very good, if not as exceptional as the zs3/zs4.

Sound: The ZSN is as sensitive and loud an IEM as I've heard and consequently optimal for those Philistines (like me) who typically listen to childish raucous fare on their mobiles. V-shaped and bright, with a lot of energy and thick, rich note texture. Soundstage is wide, but not high; effect is like listening in a large, low-ceilinged hall. Imaging is accurate.  Bass is voluminous and impactful; speed and decay is below-average (these had some bloat OOTB, albeit in a pleasant way; switching to foams tamed the low end nicely). Mids are less emphasized, which makes vocals and keyboards sound farther back than the rest. High end is sparkly and well-extended, with good clarity and detail but can get a bit metallic/digital sounding at the edges. Drums are not as accurately produced as say, the ED9, but have a lot of snap and body. Guitar rock and hard bop sound really good on these; acoustic fare is less well-presented, perhaps because of the recessed midrange. Other than the occasional bass bloom, driver coherence is seamless.

Comparos: I immediately pulled out the ZSR (my previous sometimes favorite KZ) and couldn't find a clear winner. The ZSR has a more enveloping stage, and I prefer its more balanced, mid-forward tuning to the ZSN's; the ZSR also has better-controlled (tho less impactful) low end.  However, the ZSN has more sizzle, presents more detail and is more fun. The ZSN is also  immeasurably better designed and user-friendly. Compared to the ZS6, the ZSN sounds less expansive (as if the performers were forced onto a smaller stage) has less midrange presence and shows less microdetail, though again the ZSN had better PRAT overall and is vastly more ergonomic and comfortable.

Brief listens to the TRN V80 and BQ3 were more polarizing. Both the V80 and BQ3 are significantly more "refined" (in the sense of being less colored and  more accurate reproductions of the source), with more sculpted bass;the BQ3 in particular had richer, more prominent mids and less edgy treble. That said, the ZSN images better than either and may function better as a daily driver than the fiddly, difficult-to-fit BQ3. I didn't A/B these with my new EZ D4 but had the sense that the ZSN presented a lot more musical information and were the more engaging.

Overall, it's very difficult to evaluate these without reference to their $14 price. Compared to the $100 contenders (or even to cheaper "audiophile-tuned" models like the T2) the ZSN are comparatively raw and less revealing; there's nothing analytical or hi-end about them. However in the same sense that a good burger may taste as good as a prime steak, they aren't necessarily less appealing and depending on your mood/genre you might easily opt for these over snazzier models. Good phones; more critical listening to follow.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> First Drive: KZ ZSN
> 
> Externalities: With these and the ZS4, KZ has noticeably upped its aesthetic game--the ZSN has a (relatively) premium look and feel; the fabric-covered cable is considerably nicer than its plastic predecessors, with a  memory portion that's actually usable. Headshells are large and heavy, but surprisingly comfortable, and fit is much easier and sleeker than the bulbous, awkward-fitting zsr/as10 or odd-shaped zs5/zs6.  I found isolation to be very good, if not as exceptional as the zs3/zs4.
> 
> ...



Nice observations.

I was curious about the fabric covered cable. I have the purple/silver and black/black versions, and neither have fabric covered cables.

Perhaps KZ has changed the cable already. Or did you mean braided cables?


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Nice observations.
> 
> I was curious about the fabric covered cable. I have the purple/silver and black/black versions, and neither have fabric covered cables.
> 
> Perhaps KZ has changed the cable already. Or did you mean braided cables?


you're right--it is a brown braided cable covered in some sort of nylon--it looks like cloth, hence my misnomer


----------



## Slater (Dec 11, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> you're right--it is a brown braided cable covered in some sort of nylon--it looks like cloth, hence my misnomer



Can you post a photo?

Does it look like the previously released ‘grey’ upgrade cable (that’s more of a brown)?

Like this:




Or is it actually covered with a nylon fabric sleeve, like this:


----------



## Dobrescu George

ZSN more notes  

- Build quality is okay. I have channel imbalance on the left ear being a bit quieter than my right ear
- Cable is similar to Simgot EN700, but less tangle prone (yay!)
- IEM shells are made alright, look cool
- The BA drivers are up in the bores 
- The sound is really not amazing. With female vocals, it cannot touch high notes well, doesn't reach low male voices either. Sounds crushed and compressed all over. 
- The soundstage is big, and sounds are well separated though
- Not detailed at all, no analytical abilities, most textures are pretty poor 
- Treble is not overly fatiguing, but has a good amount of sparkle and brightness
- Speed of bass is slow, they won't keep up with technical death metal, grindcore, or even most aggressive metal
- Midrange has some dips, causing certain instruments to sound more distant. This aids the larger soundstage, but also makes them sound flat
- The comfort is really good, I can't blame it in any way, cables are not microphonic, no bad driver flex, no bad inner IEM design. Good job with that actually
- For their price, they make a good purchase, since they only cost as low as 15 USD, so they perform better than any 15 USD IEM I've heard, not that I heard quite that many at that price. 
- I am not sure when I will do a full review on them, but there's nothing too exceptional to talk about, except for the soundstage and instrument separation, as those are really nice, things are well defined within their own space. 
- They actually deliver more than I was expecting, I expected nothing from a IEM that goes as low as 15 USD, but they sound okay, most people should find happiness if spending 15 USD on those.


----------



## Slater (Dec 11, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> They actually deliver more than I was expecting, I expected nothing from a IEM that goes as low as 15 USD, but they sound okay, most people should find happiness if spending 15 USD on those.



Precisely.

You get a lot of earphone for the money ($12-$15). Polycarbonate and aluminum housing, metal nozzles, removable cable with a much better design than previous 2-pin models, revised ear guides, the copper cable on the purple ZSN is the best KZ had ever released, good fit and finish. They play very well from phones

The sound is kind of an ‘everyman’s sound’; a good all-rounder that should please anyone for the price. It’s not excellent at any one specific thing.

I can see most people using these as their daily driver/throwaround beater pair. If you lose/break them, or someone steals them off your desk it’s no big deal.

Compared to the other KZ offerings at the same price point, they are superior.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Slater said:


> Can you post a photo?
> 
> Does it look like the previously released ‘grey’ upgrade cable (that’s more of a brown)?
> 
> ...



The cable looks like your first image, but has rubbery ear hooks instead of memory wire


----------



## Dobrescu George

Slater said:


> Precisely.
> 
> You get a lot of earphone for the money ($12-$15). Polycarbonate and aluminum housing, metal nozzles, removable cable with a much better design than previous 2-pin models, revised ear guides, the copper cable on the purple ZSN is the best KZ had ever released, good fit and finish. They play very well from phones
> 
> ...



I agree, I can't point to anything specific better at this price point. Also, agreed, for a really cheap thorwaround IEM, they're nice. Consider wearing them when it is raining outside and you don't want to risk your good headphones


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Can you post a photo?
> 
> Does it look like the previously released ‘grey’ upgrade cable (that’s more of a brown)?
> 
> ...


see attached--note clear plastic at .75mm connectors. the cable is kevlar perhaps?


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 11, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> ZSN more notes
> 
> - Build quality is okay. I have channel imbalance on the left ear being a bit quieter than my right ear
> - Cable is similar to Simgot EN700, but less tangle prone (yay!)
> ...


Interesting you say the bass is slow and can't keep up with technical death metal ect.
That's a lot of what I listen to and I would say that the bass is faster and more precise then any other IEM, I have heard.(OK,  maybe not but hyperbole is fun sometimes)

Back when I initially got them I posted a bass test track that I use that uses mid bass at 150bpm with subbass hits coming in every measure,  while a baseline bops along covering the Midbass,  while dipping down into the subbass. All of that going at breakneck speed,  and the ZSN handles it all with perfect spot on detail. 6 in 1 comes closest to matching,  but everything else just congeals together into a muddy mess of rumble with no bass definition.

Maybe something is wrong with yours? Maybe comparing to more expensive,  audiophile grade neutral balanced iems,  and using a bit of hyperbole?


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> Interesting you say the bass is slow and can't keep up with technical death metal ect.
> That's a lot of what I listen to and I would say that the bass is faster and more precise then any other IEM, I have heard.
> 
> Back when I initially got them I posted a bass test track that I use that uses mid bass at 150bpm with subbass hits coming in every measure,  while a baseline bops along covering the Midbass,  while dipping down into the subbass. All of that going at breakneck speed,  and the ZSN handles it all with perfect spot on detail. 6 in 1 comes closest to matching,  but everything else just congeals together into a muddy mess of rumble with no bass definition.
> ...


thus far i have a higher opinion than dobrescu of the zsn, but i agree with him that the subbass does wobble a bit--however when i switched to comply it did tighten considerably. granted, i did not test these with death metal--my test tracks were pharoah sanders, wooden shjps (neo psychedelia) + the lemonheads "old man blank," which is a fantastic cover of an obscure bevis frond song and should be listened to obsessively.


----------



## Dobrescu George

BadReligionPunk said:


> Interesting you say the bass is slow and can't keep up with technical death metal ect.
> That's a lot of what I listen to and I would say that the bass is faster and more precise then any other IEM, I have heard.
> 
> Back when I initially got them I posted a bass test track that I use that uses mid bass at 150bpm with subbass hits coming in every measure,  while a baseline bops along covering the Midbass,  while dipping down into the subbass. All of that going at breakneck speed,  and the ZSN handles it all with perfect spot on detail. 6 in 1 comes closest to matching,  but everything else just congeals together into a muddy mess of rumble with no bass definition.
> ...



What IEMs are you coming from? 

I am mostly comparing them to ~50 - 100 USD IEMs, since I don't really have many other 20 - 25 USD IEMs on hand. Of course, for this price, I haven't heard better either, and will do nice enough, but with Technical Death Metal, I find the bass to be a bit like glue, a bit sticky. 

Of course, being objecive, for ~20 USD, I am complaining too much, I should just be happy they play music and have their overall characteristics so good, best I've heard for this price range for sure


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 11, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> What IEMs are you coming from?
> 
> I am mostly comparing them to ~50 - 100 USD IEMs, since I don't really have many other 20 - 25 USD IEMs on hand. Of course, for this price, I haven't heard better either, and will do nice enough, but with Technical Death Metal, I find the bass to be a bit like glue, a bit sticky.
> 
> Of course, being objecive, for ~20 USD, I am complaining too much, I should just be happy they play music and have their overall characteristics so good, best I've heard for this price range for sure



Maybe you got a bad pair? If you have channel imbalances then the more likely it's bad is greater.
Oh and I did search "technical death metal" on youtube and yeah...not my kinda music  all I hear is dudududududdududududududududududud and a dude with sore throat xD. (this is just a joke)


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yes. Just looking for context. A kid a week or so ago was coming from hd600(i believe) and loved how warm and lush the ZSN was.  Warm and lush is not how I would describe them,  but since I knew where he was coming from,  I could buy into it.  

Just want to make sure we are not posting first impressions of a new minivan,  after driving around in a bunch of sportscars. 

Anyway,  thanks for your impressions George.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

voicemaster said:


> Maybe you got a bad pair? If you have channel imbalances then the more likely it's bad is greater.
> Oh and I did search "technical death metal" on youtube and yeah...not my kinda music  all I hear is dudududududdududududududududududud and a dude with sore throat xD. (this is just a joke)


Yea, it's an acquired taste for sure.  Some of it is very pretentious and overly rediculous, some of it can be beautiful. Vocals aside,  try this on if you feel like it.  One of my favorite albums.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 11, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> ZSN more notes
> 
> - I have channel imbalance on the left ear being a bit quieter than my right ear
> - The sound is really not amazing. With female vocals, it cannot touch high notes well, doesn't reach low male voices either. Sounds crushed and compressed all over.
> ...





BadReligionPunk said:


> Interesting you say the bass is slow and can't keep up with technical death metal ect.
> That's a lot of what I listen to and I would say that the bass is faster and more precise then any other IEM, I have heard.
> 
> .......while dipping down into the subbass. All of that going at breakneck speed,  and the ZSN handles it all with perfect spot on detail.
> ...





loomisjohnson said:


> thus far i have a higher opinion than dobrescu of the zsn, but i agree with him that the subbass does wobble a bit--however when i switched to comply it did tighten considerably. granted, i did not test these with death metal.....



Speed, agility, separation, layering and imaging:
(listen for the snap and definition of each hit on each drum piece)




Now for a polar opposite. 


Low end texture, midrange texture, air and sibilance (even these soft vocals should still be just AHEAD of a gentle but defined bass line):


----------



## Slater

gbrgbr said:


> Thanks @Mellowship & @Slater.
> 
> Does the ZSA sound very much better with more power ?
> I used the KSR with the KZ Type-C cable and now cannot go back to the orig cable.
> ...



Unfortunately I don't have the ZSA (even though I've always kinda wanted it since it looks like a baby ZS6).


----------



## voicemaster

DocHoliday said:


> Speed, agility, separation, layering and imaging:
> (listen for the snap and definition of each hit on each drum piece)
> 
> 
> ...




I love the 2nd song. Does nightwish considered metal?


----------



## nicksson

Dobrescu George said:


> - Build quality is okay. I have channel imbalance on the left ear being a bit quieter than my right ear
> - The sound is really not amazing. With female vocals, it cannot touch high notes well, doesn't reach low male voices either. Sounds crushed and compressed all over.
> - The soundstage is big, and sounds are well separated though
> - Not detailed at all, no analytical abilities, most textures are pretty poor
> ...


Mr. Dobre Georgescu, it looks like your ZSN is a bit defective. Did it fall out of your hands, on concrete? Did you hit it with the hammer? 
Mine is different...


----------



## Zerohour88

nicksson said:


> Mr. Dobre Georgescu, it looks like your ZSN is a bit defective. Did it fall out of your hands, on concrete? Did you hit it with the hammer?
> Mine is different...



there's probably nothing wrong with his unit, its all about perspective (the analogy above about reviewing minivans after driving supercars is apt).

Its hard to go down to a lower tier after experiencing the higher echelon of IEMs, even past $200 makes quite a difference.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Unfortunately I don't have the ZSA (even though I've always kinda wanted it since it looks like a baby ZS6).


I have one with about 7 hours on em. I just don't like them. Sound signature and fitment is no beuno for me.  I also have to get rid of some stuff to make wife happy. Cover shipping and they yours.


----------



## voicemaster

Zerohour88 said:


> there's probably nothing wrong with his unit, its all about perspective (the analogy above about reviewing minivans after driving supercars is apt).
> 
> Its hard to go down to a lower tier after experiencing the higher echelon of IEMs, even past $200 makes quite a difference.



Tbh, my zsn and as10 stomp all over my jh roxanne v1 ($1400). Maybe I got a bad pair but mine is a sibilance monsterh; has adjustable bass, but sadly only increase mid bass which make the sound muddy as hell; this thing is a monster (as10is puny compared to this monster), my ear will start hurting after 30 min of use; the cable while good, but heavy af. The only good thing is the separation, layering (which to be expected as this thing has 12 drivers per side) and the metal case. 
What I mean is not every "high end" or more expensive stuff are better. Some bad and some good.


----------



## Zerohour88

voicemaster said:


> Tbh, my zsn and as10 stomp all over my jh roxanne v1 ($1400). Maybe I got a bad pair but mine is a sibilance monsterh; has adjustable bass, but sadly only increase mid bass which make the sound muddy as hell; this thing is a monster (as10is puny compared to this monster), my ear will start hurting after 30 min of use; the cable while good, but heavy af. The only good thing is the separation, layering (which to be expected as this thing has 12 drivers per side) and the metal case.
> What I mean is not every "high end" or more expensive stuff are better. Some bad and some good.



sadly, I don't think any KZ I've tested can beat the CA Andromeda (even better now since I finally made the DIY IEMatch to get rid of hissing from my source). 

The sound just have more resolution/definition, and even the soundstage is bigger than the ZS5v1 without the mids being affected (vocals sounds brilliant on it). 

which is funny, since a friend bought the ZS5 purely to see if the Andro shape will fit his ears and that it won't be too uncomfortable for long usage.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 11, 2018)

voicemaster said:


> my zsn and as10 stomp all over my jh roxanne v1 ($1400). What I mean is not every "high end" or more expensive stuff are better. Some bad and some good.



I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Hundreds of dollars worth.


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## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 11, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> Its hard to go down to a lower tier after experiencing the higher echelon of IEMs, even past $200 makes quite a difference.


Does KZ need to go into that financial bracket or has KZ hit a home run with the AS10/BA10?


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does KZ need to go into that financial bracket or has KZ have they hit a home run with the AS10/BA10?



I don't think they need to, but they're slowly going up the bracket, at least. The BA10 is already around $80 or so, only a matter of time until they go past $100. Probably with the coming 16 driver.

Either way, judging from the ZSN, I think they know the main appeal of their brand and still maintaining the lower-bracket bang-for-buck models while still slowly dipping their toes on the more expensive models.

Basically, while I know this will get lost among the many posts made here, people shouldn't really worry too much about the higher end and more expensive models being released by KZ. If you like KZ for the cheap stuff, you can expect the cheap stuff coming because that's where they move the big volume sales at. No one is forcing you to get the more expensive models, especially when past the $50, there's so many variety being made in chi-fi.


----------



## cstriker045

Damn, ZSN sounds like a great option for me, too bad they don't ship to Canada (unless I want to pay a $30 shipping fee lol).

Anyone have any other alternatives? Looking for an under $20.


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_fro....TRC2.A0.H0.XKZ+ZSN.TRS0&_nkw=KZ+ZSN&_sacat=0


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## Dobrescu George

voicemaster said:


> Maybe you got a bad pair? If you have channel imbalances then the more likely it's bad is greater.
> Oh and I did search "technical death metal" on youtube and yeah...not my kinda music  all I hear is dudududududdududududududududududud and a dude with sore throat xD. (this is just a joke)



Whether it had that channel imbalance is more of a matter of build quality... 



BadReligionPunk said:


> Yes. Just looking for context. A kid a week or so ago was coming from hd600(i believe) and loved how warm and lush the ZSN was.  Warm and lush is not how I would describe them,  but since I knew where he was coming from,  I could buy into it.
> 
> Just want to make sure we are not posting first impressions of a new minivan,  after driving around in a bunch of sportscars.
> 
> Anyway,  thanks for your impressions George.



Yes, I don't think I come from something similar in price and design, thus my opinion... 



DocHoliday said:


> Speed, agility, separation, layering and imaging:
> (listen for the snap and definition of each hit on each drum piece)
> 
> 
> ...




I listen to metal in general... It is important to know what you are coming from, to better asses why there are those differences.  



nicksson said:


> Mr. Dobre Georgescu, it looks like your ZSN is a bit defective. Did it fall out of your hands, on concrete? Did you hit it with the hammer?
> Mine is different...



I don't think it is defective, I think that I have a pretty high reference point though. 



Zerohour88 said:


> there's probably nothing wrong with his unit, its all about perspective (the analogy above about reviewing minivans after driving supercars is apt).
> 
> Its hard to go down to a lower tier after experiencing the higher echelon of IEMs, even past $200 makes quite a difference.



Yes, that is pretty true. ZSN sounds pretty much like the best IEM I heard for 20$, the kind I used to enjoy as a kid, when I didn't know better IEMs existed. Nothing wrong with it, for ~20USD it is majestic


----------



## nicksson

Dobrescu George said:


> I don't think it is defective, I think that I have a pretty high reference point though.
> ... the kind I used to enjoy as a kid, when I didn't know better IEMs existed...


Oh sir, please calm down your horse and jump down to the common earthlings... Or are you yet kidding? There is no need to exaggerate, or you'll jump over the horse, if you know what I mean (nu e cazul să sari peste cal).
You are not the only one who own expensive gears and the judgement of such items is always subjective and depends on such factors like the age, the personal taste and preferences. And yes, I enjoy to put away my expensive "toys" to experiment some cheap items like KZ ZSN or AS10. In my opinion their sound is far "better" than in the case of other similar but much more expensive IEMs. Few years ago, maybe when you was a kid, the price of a headphone with only 1 (one) BA began from few hundred usd... So, your "pretty high reference point" when we talk about 15-20 usd KZ earphones is a... what is it?


----------



## Dobrescu George

nicksson said:


> Oh sir, please calm down your horse and jump down to the common earthlings... Or are you yet kidding? There is no need to exaggerate, or you'll jump over the horse, if you know what I mean (nu e cazul să sari peste cal).
> You are not the only one who own expensive gears and the judgement of such items is always subjective and depends on such factors like the age, the personal taste and preferences. And yes, I enjoy to put away my expensive "toys" to experiment some cheap items like KZ ZSN or AS10. In my opinion their sound is far "better" than in the case of other similar but much more expensive IEMs. Few years ago, maybe when you was a kid, the price of a headphone with only 1 (one) BA began from few hundred usd... So, your "pretty high reference point" when we talk about 15-20 usd KZ earphones is a... what is it?



For example, compared to KZ AS10, AS10 is better in terms of sonics, more detailed, more textures, better overall definition.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

Slater said:


> Unfortunately I don't have the ZSA (even though I've always kinda wanted it since it looks like a baby ZS6).


I have a couple, I like them. They are one of my daily drivers, depending on what I am doing. I like how compact and small they are. The metal housing looks cool, feels high quality. In fact I showed them to a guy I know that  sells high end audio gear, his comment, "Nice, they look like Nobles". 
I am not great at comparing iems in terms of sound, I am much better with over ear headphones, but I will say this: when I got my ZSN I did a little bit of a/b listening with the ZSA. They aren't drastically different, the interesting thing I noticed about the ZSA was it _sounded_ like an aluminum housing.  By comparison to the ZSN, there is a sort of crisp quality, it's a little more energetic and sharp, it's metallic, in a good way.


----------



## jibberish

Catching up on this thread, my credit card info was used fraudulently after buying from Penon as well


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

jibberish said:


> Catching up on this thread, my credit card info was used fraudulently after buying from Penon as well


We need to stick to their Aliexpress store only from now on. Unfortunately, it doesn't come up easily in searches.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Cruelhand Luke said:


> II will say this: when I got my ZSN I did a little bit of a/b listening with the ZSA. They aren't drastically different, the interesting thing I noticed about the ZSA was it _sounded_ like an aluminum housing.  By comparison to the ZSN, there is a sort of crisp quality, it's a little more energetic and sharp, it's metallic, in a good way.


That's one of the biggest things I hate about metal housings, the music sounds metallic. When I found KZ I fell in love with the plastic housing sound and didn't hear the echo type sounds from metal IEM's. The ZSN is only partially metallic so it'll be interested to hear that sounds but as you noted, it does sound metallic a bit, in a good way. And, with peoples responses in the thread it sounds like a delightful good way.


----------



## voicemaster

Why it takes so long for vendor in Aliexpress to ship their order?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_fro....TRC2.A0.H0.XKZ+ZSN.TRS0&_nkw=KZ+ZSN&_sacat=0


I prefer Aliexpress myself. E-Bay is flawed. All my past purchases have disappeared from my account and I have no idea how to find them again. At least with Ali I just go into my account and they are just there. I love Aliexpress!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> Why it takes so long for vendor in Aliexpress to ship their order?


They probably don't own the product and need to go and buy it from a supplier and bring it to a shipper/the postal office.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's one of the biggest things I hate about metal housings, the music sounds metallic. When I found KZ I fell in love with the plastic housing sound and didn't hear the echo type sounds from metal IEM's. The ZSN is only partially metallic so it'll be interested to hear that sounds but as you noted, it does sound metallic a bit, in a good way. And, with peoples responses in the thread it sounds like a delightful good way.


I think you misunderstood my post...the ZSA sounds metallic... compared to the ZSN. The ZSN is smoother, it doesn't sound metallic at all.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> people shouldn't really worry too much about the higher end and more expensive models being released by KZ. If you like KZ for the cheap stuff, you can expect the cheap stuff coming because that's where they move the big volume sales at. No one is forcing you to get the more expensive models, especially when past the $50, there's so many variety being made in chi-fi.


Cheap stuff is cheap stuff but are the KZ high-end models worth it? It shouldn't be about the price. I was the idiot who bought 30+ earbuds and iem's for $10 - $15 expecting to hear huge differences from headphones that probably came from similar factories and with similar materials. Price shouldn't be an issue and people shouldn't only stick their foot in cheapskate waters if they can afford a more expensive IEM. If I was more wise I would have spent that $500 wasted on cheapo IEM's and bought some really good high end ones that would last me years. Now I have boxes of $10 IEM's sitting in a closet collecting dust.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I think you misunderstood my post...the ZSA sounds metallic... compared to the ZSN. The ZSN is smoother, it doesn't sound metallic at all.


I understood your post.  I thought you said the ZSN sort of sounded metallic but in a good way. I guess if someone listens to heavy metal a more metallic sounding IEM would be better?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 11, 2018)

cstriker045 said:


> Damn, ZSN sounds like a great option for me, too bad they don't ship to Canada (unless I want to pay a $30 shipping fee lol).


I hope that changes after this postal strike situation is fixed and better for everyone. I've noticed high shipping charges like that on E-Bay now too. If the shipping charges don't go down we're stuck in Canada to ordering products under $15 on Aliexpress because apparently according to one seller they aren't applying high shipping costs to those low cost orders.


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I understood your post.  I thought you said the ZSN sort of sounded metallic but in a good way. I guess if someone listens to heavy metal a more metallic sounding IEM would be better?


LOL...Nope. you still aren't getting it. 
ZSA: all metal body...sounds metallic in a good way
ZSN: partially metal, does not sound metallic at all...the housing resonates and hums more...it's warmer by comparison. 
ok?


----------



## Luxed

Zerohour88 said:


> Basically, while I know this will get lost among the many posts made here, people shouldn't really worry too much about the higher end and more expensive models being released by KZ. If you like KZ for the cheap stuff, you can expect the cheap stuff coming because that's where they move the big volume sales at. No one is forcing you to get the more expensive models, especially when past the $50, there's so many variety being made in chi-fi.


Why would I get 1 500$ IEM that sounds amazing when I could have had 10 50$ IEM that all sounds different (even if they are never as good as the expensive one?). What I want in an IEM is not the best sound quality, but something cheap that I can simply change for something else depending on my mood. That's why I have started to look into KZ and started buying cheap IEMs instead of always trying something more expensive. At the end of the day, do I really know what sound signature I really like? Would I have really liked the 500$ IEM if it didn't sound like I actually would like it to?
I always thought I liked a brighter sound signature. But since I ordered the AS10 and ZSN at the same time. I never actually really listened to the ZSN because I can't get the AS10 out of my ears.


cstriker045 said:


> Damn, ZSN sounds like a great option for me, too bad they don't ship to Canada (unless I want to pay a $30 shipping fee lol).
> 
> Anyone have any other alternatives? Looking for an under $20.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> I hope that changes after this postal strike situation is fixed and better for everyone. I've noticed high shipping charges like that on E-Bay now too. If the shipping charges don't go down we're stuck in Canada to ordering products under $15 on Aliexpress because apparently according to one seller they aren't applying high shipping costs to those low cost orders.


I just discovered AliExpress and was really impressed with how good it was. I never really liked ebay for some odd reason although I never had any issue on the site.
But I wanted to buy more stuff too and I guess the only option right now is to wait. Be patient. I needed to change my DAC/AMP combo, but I guess I'll wait until the end of my vacations to see if the strike is done.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Cruelhand Luke said:


> LOL...Nope. you still aren't getting it.
> ZSA: all metal body...sounds metallic in a good way
> ZSN: partially metal, does not sound metallic at all...the housing resonates and hums more...it's warmer by comparison.
> ok?


I get it,. Let's move on. The only part I was confused with was the ZSN not sounding metallic at all despite having a metal back.


----------



## Slater (Dec 11, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Cheap stuff is cheap stuff but are the KZ high-end models worth it? It shouldn't be about the price. I was the idiot who bought 30+ earbuds and iem's for $10 - $15 expecting to hear huge differences from headphones that probably came from similar factories and with similar materials. Price shouldn't be an issue and people shouldn't only stick their foot in cheapskate waters if they can afford a more expensive IEM. If I was more wise I would have spent that $500 wasted on cheapo IEM's and bought some really good high end ones that would last me years. Now I have boxes of $10 IEM's sitting in a closet collecting dust.



Maybe put them up for sale on the FS board?

You could sell them in lots of 3-5. That’s what I would do.

Buying a lot is a great way for new members to start down the ChiFi path. Or students on a tight budget to save some money.

A lot of 3 is nice, because (for example) it could give buyers 1 for home, 1 for a gym bag, and 1 for a school backpack. It also saves on shipping costs, and allows buyers to try a few different sound signatures.

Just food for thought...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 11, 2018)

Luxed said:


> Why would I get 1 500$ IEM that sounds amazing when I could have had 10 50$ IEM that all sounds different (even if they are never as good as the expensive one?). What I want in an IEM is not the best sound quality, but something cheap that I can simply change for something else depending on my mood. That's why I have started to look into KZ and started buying cheap IEMs instead of always trying something more expensive. At the end of the day, do I really know what sound signature I really like? Would I have really liked the 500$ IEM if it didn't sound like I actually would like it to? But since I ordered the AS10 and ZSN at the same time. I never actually really listened to the ZSN because I can't get the AS10 out of my ears..


I think buying a $1,500 IEM is a waste of money but not to a millionaire. It makes sense. I'd rather spend $100 on one or lower. I'm not exactly sure why you don't want an IEM that sounds good as that confuses me. Why listen to music if you don't want it to sound the best that it can?

Please be smarter than me and buy a bunch of $50 IEM's instead of $10 ones. Then again, screw that, just buy three $50 IEM's and figure out after that what you want to do next... a new music player perhaps?


----------



## durwood

jibberish said:


> Catching up on this thread, my credit card info was used fraudulently after buying from Penon as well





LaughMoreDaily said:


> We need to stick to their Aliexpress store only from now on. Unfortunately, it doesn't come up easily in searches.



I contacted Penon about it, he said they have fixed it by removing the credit payment directly through their website and instead to use paypal. In this day an age the hacking will only get worse.

well once you search their store on ali and make it a favorite store, no issues finding it. This was my first transaction with them, they shipped it fast,  just wish I went with paypal to begin with.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Maybe put them up for sale on the FS board?
> 
> You could sell them in lots of 3-5. That’s what I would do..


I will do that for sure when I can... anything to help out new members. I don't even care about financial losses as I've already made a huge one making the mistake doing it. The least I can do at this point is help others discover good earbuds/iems that I don't appreciate from too much quantity (but should). Thanks for the thoughtful post.


----------



## Luxed

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think buying a $1,500 IEM is a waste of money but not to a millionaire. It makes sense. I'd rather spend $100 on one or lower. I'm not exactly sure why you don't want an IEM that sounds good as that confuses me. Why listen to music if you don't want it to sound the best that it can?
> 
> Please be smarter than me and buy a bunch of $50 IEM's instead of $10 ones. Then again, screw that, just buy three $50 IEM's and figure out after that what you want to do next... a new music player perhaps?


Depends on the money you have and what you want  Audio is completely subjective for me. I could get something that sounds just perfect for me, but right now, as a student, cheap IEMs are better. Sound quality is great but you can only go so far. On top of that I mostly listen to music as a background, not as my main activity. My brain won't care about how the 500$ IEM is 10% better (hyperbole, I like them xD). In the other hand, I can ear the difference in sound signature more easily than I can ear the difference in "sound quality", once again that might be because music is more of a background for me.
And yes, my AS10 and ZSN sound so different that I won't buy any other IEM for a while (at least until there is the successor the ZS6 which looks really interesting to me) but a new music player? For sure. My Fiio X1 II is driving me crazy. It's great! But I can't deal with 5 seconds of wait each time I want to change a song.


----------



## gbrgbr

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I have a couple, I like them. .....



Could you let me know whether amping (more 'juice') makes much difference with the ZSA ?
I would like to get a KZ Type-C cable and mod the connector for the ZSA.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Luxed said:


> In the other hand, I can ear the difference in sound signature more easily than I can ear the difference in "sound quality", once again that might be because music is more of a background for me.
> And yes, my AS10 and ZSN sound so different that I won't buy any other IEM for a while (at least until there is the successor the ZS6 which looks really interesting to me) but a new music player? For sure. My Fiio X1 II is driving me crazy. It's great! But I can't deal with 5 seconds of wait each time I want to change a song.


I always wonder about how much those two connected. Your post makes me think about that more deeply. Sound quality is usually related the recording itself and with cheaper headphones and sound signature is usually related to brand identity. I'm glad you're wise/smart enough to realize those two are good enough for now. Sometimes greed is a bad thing, err always?  I don't like collecting stuff but it seems to sometimes happen naturally like with KZ. How can you not collect them? Cables are interchangeable and you can just throw ten pairs of them in a sock and put them in a drawer with no notice. 

How is your Fiio anyway? Haven't they fixed those bugs yet? Ugh. That player has been on the market for years and there is still lag time between songs? How is the sound quality and have you heard other music players? I'm curious about the Fiio M3K myself as the price tag is low.


----------



## fluteloop

1clearhead said:


> My theory on the holes (or ports):
> They might make some difference in sound pressure changing ever so slightly the typical sound that it's suppose to represent. But, we all must keep in mind the deeper reason for most of the holes are to keep the drivers from the pressure of "driver flex", which keeps them from getting damaged in the long run.




The crinkling can be pretty Brutal... if you start putting creases in a driver it might lose some stiffness and result in unwanted pregnancy.


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 21, 2020)

blue chew.


----------



## Luxed

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Your post makes me think about that more deeply. Sound quality is usually related the recording itself and with cheaper headphones and sound signature is usually related to brand identity.


I listen to Modern Metal mostly. Recordings are usually good and I can't stand an album that sounds muddy or not clean enough (metal is a crowded genre, if it's muddy, you lose all of the details that are violently thrown at you). But do I really want to have the best sound quality or different sound signatures? I made my choice and everyone can make theirs. Cheap can be good to try things and that's what I'm doing right now. I'll continue to buy cheap IEMs for different sound signatures. And once I think I know what I actually want, I'll go ahead and save money to buy something that's better. All of this is so subjective, that's why I have a hard time reading reviews: it's either they are trying to be objective (but everyone ears differently, so they can't really be that objective) or they try to be scientific and they show you graphs, but graphs don't tell all the story. The audio world is weird, subjective and different for everyone.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> How is your Fiio anyway? Haven't they fixed those bugs yet? Ugh. That player has been on the market for years and there is still lag time between songs? How is the sound quality and have you heard other music players? I'm curious about the Fiio M3K myself as the price tag is low.


Quite honestly, Fiio have delivered some amazing updates over the 2 years I've had the device for. So good that all the complaints I had in version 1.0 are completely gone with 1.7.2 (latest). Everything works perfectly apart from the general slowness of the UI. It has gotten at least 75% better with the updates, but still things are really slow. My guess would be that it is more of a hardware issue than a software one seeing as to how much their software has grown.
There's no lag between songs, they actually implemented gapless playback in an update. It's just the UI and the time it takes to raise/lower the volume, navigate or simply change a song manually.
Sound quality is awesome. I gifted a Fiio M3 to my girlfriend but never took my time to listen to it (I'm sure it sounds really good and she didn't complain once since I gifted it to her). I owned a Sony walkman NWZ-E364 (what a good name) before, but it broke one or two days after I received my Fiio X1II. From what I can remember, the Sony had a really good "bass boost" option and a really good 5 band EQ which is not the case of the Fiio X1II (the EQ doesn't make a lot of difference which is also why I stopped EQing my IEMs). The overall sound was already good but the Fiio X1II took it a step further and sounded noticeably better overall.

BTW, the M3K looks really good 

And I think that's enough non-KZ talk so I'll give those that own the ZSN and the AS10 a question:
Do you think the AS10 has a better sound quality than the ZSN? Why (not)? How?


----------



## Danfish98

voicemaster said:


> I love the 2nd song. Does nightwish considered metal?


Nightwish is symphonic metal. And also fantastic!


----------



## Zerohour88

Luxed said:


> Why would I get 1 500$ IEM that sounds amazing when I could have had 10 50$ IEM that all sounds different (even if they are never as good as the expensive one?). What I want in an IEM is not the best sound quality, but something cheap that I can simply change for something else depending on my mood. That's why I have started to look into KZ and started buying cheap IEMs instead of always trying something more expensive. At the end of the day, do I really know what sound signature I really like? Would I have really liked the 500$ IEM if it didn't sound like I actually would like it to?
> I always thought I liked a brighter sound signature. But since I ordered the AS10 and ZSN at the same time. I never actually really listened to the ZSN because I can't get the AS10 out of my ears.



good for you then. Its brilliant to put on an IEM/headphone and not care about the sonic qualities. Sometimes its all just about the music. Since this is head-fi and most readers would be "audiophiles" or something close, unfortunately sonic qualities does come into the equation.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Cheap stuff is cheap stuff but are the KZ high-end models worth it? It shouldn't be about the price. I was the idiot who bought 30+ earbuds and iem's for $10 - $15 expecting to hear huge differences from headphones that probably came from similar factories and with similar materials. Price shouldn't be an issue and people shouldn't only stick their foot in cheapskate waters if they can afford a more expensive IEM. If I was more wise I would have spent that $500 wasted on cheapo IEM's and bought some really good high end ones that would last me years. Now I have boxes of $10 IEM's sitting in a closet collecting dust.



Is it worth it? well, that's up for you to decide then. Buy it, sample it, read reviews from people you trust, however you want. Like I said, "value" is up to the buyer and no one is putting a gun to your head and saying "buy our high-end models!"


I do realize that I'm also replying to the two ends of the spectrum here. One that relishes on buying many small purchases and one that regretted buying so many small purchases.

Why not both? Spend some small amount of money buying different IEMs with different signatures, compare your views with other reviewers while also determining your hearing proclivities, then when you're ready, you can buy a higher-tier model based on the reviews or by sampling them, knowing that you've determined your requirements for an IEM. At least that's how I'm going about it. Once I reach a level where I can barely distinguish the previous tier of "upgrade" with a current "upgrade" purchase, I'll probably stop random purchases and just get them for fun (hopefully reached that with my earbuds upgrade, the NiceHCK EBX, still waiting for the IEM and headphone side)


----------



## Conest (Dec 12, 2018)

So I got my First IEM (ZSA) today
and Their fit was horrible.. much better now with my spare tips.
And Got my 2nd IEM (ZSN) ... Theyy areeee incredible...fit.. comfort (Cant even feel them) and sound quality.. everything is very good..
They deserve to be hyped..
(will post pics soon)


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 12, 2018)

Dobrescu George said:


> ZSN more notes
> 
> - Build quality is okay. I have channel imbalance on the left ear being a bit quieter than my right ear
> - Cable is similar to Simgot EN700, but less tangle prone (yay!)
> ...


Thanks @Dobrescu George for your take on the ZSN.

May I know what eartips did you use to listen for your impressions?

Our daughter listens to metal. I must say i cannot anymore keep up with such overload of sonic stimuli coming direct to my eardrums a few millimeters away.

These are my own impressions with regard to perception of bass resolution (textures, speed, decay, etc.):

I find natural acoustic instruments more suited to the task. The double bass, the violoncello, the lowest octave of the piano, the harp, the bass trombone, the tuba, contrabassoon, the pipe organ. Even the human voice. Listening to these in solo, in chamber music and in concert is for me the essence of the sound such instrument produces, in relation to its interplay with others as a whole, and the sense-impressions and emotions and mindset all of it evoke. Music.

When I listen to, say, Beethoven's Third or Vivaldi's Four Seasons or a Bach Cello Suite or Charlie Mingus from a decent stereo system, once I perceive that it resolves and reproduces with a certain threshold of fidelity the music that's familiar to me I get engaged and involved and am gone.

Now we have transducers that can fit over or even inside our ears, but the same principle applies.

The instruments i've mentioned—save for the human voice—can and do go down to the lowest audible range, sub-bass. The pipe organ can go even lower. With these instruments one can, through decent headphones, perceive how bass notes are resolved, individually or in complex series of tones, fast or slow, and how the resulting combinations lead to textures that, by a certain recording or performance by a certain artist or artists, arouse our thoughts and feelings.

With the KZ ZSN, I find the music I am most familiar with, be it simple, intimate, aggressive, complex or wildly exuberant, are sufficiently reproduced and resolved, notably in the lower audible range. No congestion. No bloat.

On the other hand, in late-night listening, I find that the Simgot EN700 Pro can resolve even better. But then what I listen to is music and if the speakers or headphones are good enough I get lost in it in an instant.

You say the ZSN is good. Given your context, that may be construed as so-so, humdrum, mediocre.

I say the ZSN is very good. And given my context: price (bought it for less than $11); build and design; aesthetics; its cable—all of which translate to value; and the music I listen to; that may even be construed as exceptional.

Long story short: we have a difference of opinion. And I'm merely a housewife approaching senior citizenship who can't hear a thing beyond 14,800 KHz.

But what does it matter? This is, after all, an impressions thread and I do appreciate and respect your thoughts and your right to express them. And I think you've made some good points, too.


----------



## Conest




----------



## CoiL (Dec 12, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> First Drive: KZ ZSN
> 
> Externalities: With these and the ZS4, KZ has noticeably upped its aesthetic game--the ZSN has a (relatively) premium look and feel; the braided (nylon?)-covered cable is considerably nicer than its plastic predecessors, with a  memory portion that's actually usable. Headshells are large and heavy, but surprisingly comfortable, and fit is much easier and sleeker than the bulbous, awkward-fitting zsr/as10 or odd-shaped zs5/zs6.  I found isolation to be very good, if not as exceptional as the zs3/zs4.
> 
> ...





Dobrescu George said:


> ZSN more notes
> 
> - Build quality is okay. I have channel imbalance on the left ear being a bit quieter than my right ear
> - Cable is similar to Simgot EN700, but less tangle prone (yay!)
> ...


Very good objective-subjective critic reviews from You two. I mostly agree with all those statements but some I don`t agree to full extent, maybe due to source gear/amping/music preference differences, idk.


BadReligionPunk said:


> Interesting you say the bass is slow and can't keep up with technical death metal ect.
> That's a lot of what I listen to and I would say that the bass is faster and more precise then any other IEM, I have heard.(OK,  maybe not but hyperbole is fun sometimes)
> Back when I initially got them I posted a bass test track that I use that uses mid bass at 150bpm with subbass hits coming in every measure,  while a baseline bops along covering the Midbass,  while dipping down into the subbass. All of that going at breakneck speed,  and the ZSN handles it all with perfect spot on detail. 6in1 comes closest to matching,  but everything else just congeals together into a muddy mess of rumble with no bass definition.


That was one of those points that I agree 50%. In general, I find ZSN DD producing pretty fast and accurate bass/percussion (especially for the price).
Another thing is soundstage size and transparency/layering @ frontal depth, which I find sometimes littlebit congested and "mixed up".


----------



## fluteloop

paypal/credit card. both have protection.  dispute it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> Thanks @Dobrescu George I say the ZSN is very good. And given my context: price (bought it for less than $11); build and design; aesthetics; its cable—all of which translate to value; and the music I listen to; that may even be construed to be exceptional.


I'm not sure why but I hate it when people say (a comment, not about your discussion) "so and so headphone is amazing for so and so dollars."

I don't think that matters myself, it's about how good the headphone is altogether Sure, it's under $20, $30 or $100 or whatever the case may be... but that doesn't matter to me. Is it worth buying at any price is more important. What do you all think?


----------



## Migou67

This song express clearly my perception of the ZSN pricing


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure why but I hate it when people say (a comment, not about your discussion) "so and so headphone is amazing for so and so dollars."
> 
> I don't think that matters myself, it's about how good the headphone is altogether Sure, it's under $20, $30 or $100 or whatever the case may be... but that doesn't matter to me. Is it worth buying at any price is more important. What do you all think?


I don't want to go off topic any more than I should. My post that you quoted is intended to be read in its entirety; first, as a reference to what my impressions are as to how bass resolution is perceived, in relation to how it applies when listening to music with the ZSN; and second, with such reference taken in context with the over-all value that the ZSN represents, of which price is just a constituent. In all my posts here I have never specified purchase price as the singular basis for any assertion as to how a headphone is to be judged. The operative word is context.

If the pair of ZSNs (or other KZ IEMs) that you ordered had already arrived and you had given them sufficient time with the music you listen to, perhaps you could then post your own impressions here. I look forward to reading them. Consequently, perhaps you may or may not agree that indeed, despite the lowly status seemingly conferred upon it by many, it can competently reproduce and resolve individual and complex bass notes with an acceptable (to me, at least) degree of fidelity. That's the point where I disagreed with Dobrescu George.

I do like the way you keep this thread interesting.


----------



## CactusPete23

voicemaster said:


> Why it takes so long for vendor in Aliexpress to ship their order?


Probably 3 reasons:
1) Smaller "stores" carry NO INVENTORY or low inventory, and go out and buy the item for you after you order.
2) Shipping is done by outside companies.  They may consolidate shipping to get lower shipping rates.  That means your package may wait with others until there are "enough" to ship. Plus some Handling in China and in Your Country.
3) Right now we are still seeing affect of high order volume from 11/11 and from Holiday Buying...

Just my guess.  But Maybe 20% of the time, I get item in USA in 1 week...  Though normal not to get for up to 30 days..  When longer than 30 days, for sure they did Not ship yet, even though you see (fake) tracking number.  Aliexpress requires sellers to ship within something like 7 to 10 days as part of their policies.  But many sellers just make a "fake" shipment number when they don't have the item ti ship yet, or when delayed for whatever reason, to avoid AE penalties.  Seems like something we can't control from here, (unless we cancel orders...), so may have to live with for lover pricing...


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I prefer Aliexpress myself. E-Bay is flawed. All my past purchases have disappeared from my account and I have no idea how to find them again. At least with Ali I just go into my account and they are just there. I love Aliexpress!



After you said that I went to look at my Ebay history and I see I cannot go further back than 2016.  Maybe I am confused but I do think I used to be able to back further than that.  My first ebay order would have been in 1999.

My first Amazon.com  purchases were also in 1999.  I can see all my Amazon.com  orders from 2002 on.  For some reason it only tells me how many orders I had in 1999,2000 and 2001 but not what they were.  My Amazon UK orders go back to 2007 which sounds right as I moved here in late 2006.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure why but I hate it when people say (a comment, not about your discussion) "so and so headphone is amazing for so and so dollars."
> 
> I don't think that matters myself, it's about how good the headphone is altogether Sure, it's under $20, $30 or $100 or whatever the case may be... but that doesn't matter to me. Is it worth buying at any price is more important. What do you all think?



I understand what you mean.  I never say something is good for the price.  It is either good or it is not to me.  The ZSN is good.  So are most of my others.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> They probably don't own the product and need to go and buy it from a supplier and bring it to a shipper/the postal office.



Yes, I don't think they always have a big back room filled with each product that they offer.  I think many of them have to get things sent from a warehouse.  Sometimes I think they are surprised by how many orders there are for a product... maybe because it was hyped in this forum. We just have to be patient.  I have had a couple of things take as long as six weeks but everything has always arrived eventually.  Instead of being surprised by how long it takes,  I am very surprised when some orders arrive in 6 -10 days.


----------



## mbwilson111

CactusPete23 said:


> Probably 3 reasons:
> 1) Smaller "stores" carry NO INVENTORY or low inventory, and go out and buy the item for you after you order.
> 2) Shipping is done by outside companies.  They may consolidate shipping to get lower shipping rates.  That means your package may wait with others until there are "enough" to ship. Plus some Handling in China and in Your Country.
> 3) Right now we are still seeing affect of high order volume from 11/11 and from Holiday Buying...
> ...



I think we were typing at the same time... you were faster


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> After you said that I went to look at my Ebay history and I see I cannot go further back than 2016.  Maybe I am confused but I do think I used to be able to back further than that.  My first ebay order would have been in 1999.
> 
> My first Amazon.com  purchases were also in 1999.  I can see all my Amazon.com  orders from 2002 on.  For some reason it only tells me how many orders I had in 1999,2000 and 2001 but not what they were.  My Amazon UK orders go back to 2007 which sounds right as I moved here in late 2006.
> 
> ...



It costs a lot to store all that info on servers. The company I work for keeps only very basic records for account activity older than 2002 for this reason. Can't imagine how much Amazon spends yearly on data storage O_O


----------



## loomisjohnson

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure why but I hate it when people say (a comment, not about your discussion) "so and so headphone is amazing for so and so dollars."
> 
> I don't think that matters myself, it's about how good the headphone is altogether Sure, it's under $20, $30 or $100 or whatever the case may be... but that doesn't matter to me. Is it worth buying at any price is more important. What do you all think?


i agree with laughmore that any iem has to meet a quality threshold; it's not a bargain if you won't listen to it. what's really intriguing about chifi is that that threshold keeps dropping--whereas five years ago it was hard to find an acceptable phone for $50, today you can spend $11 on a zsn or einsear or whatever and be content. likewise, the point of diminishing returns has dropped precipitously, which is to say that the incremental  improvement between, say, a good $100 phone and a megabuck one isn't as big as it used to be.
to use a crude analogy, somebody once described australian wines as "$7 wines which taste like they could be $12"., which with no disrespect to australia, was snarky but valid. now we have $12 iems which, at least in comparison to their mainstream counterparts, really could be >$100. which to me is much of the pleasure of this game.
thanks for listening. back to work.


----------



## nicksson

loomisjohnson said:


> ... whereas five years ago it was hard to find an _acceptable _[ear/head]phone for $50 ...
> ... now we have $12 iems which, at least in comparison to their mainstream counterparts, really could be >$100. which to me is much of the _pleasure of this game_. ...


Nice said


----------



## Conest

schom said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ope...492.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d2g5jst
> 
> The ZSN and the BA10 both have a very good fit with this cable.
> i use them for sports....
> ...


Is it good for ZSA ?


----------



## Dobrescu George

SybilLance said:


> Thanks @Dobrescu George for your take on the ZSN.
> 
> May I know what eartips did you use to listen for your impressions?
> 
> ...



If you got them for 11 USD, there is no space to complain about them


----------



## PhonoPhi

Dobrescu George said:


> I agree, I can't point to anything specific better at this price point. Also, agreed, for a really cheap thorwaround IEM, they're nice. Consider wearing them when it is raining outside and you don't want to risk your good headphones


It would be really great, Dear Sir, if you can kindly compare ZSN with few similar in construction (DD&BA) IEMs in a higher price bracket from your reputable collection. Pointing out in an A/B comparison specific features that can be attained with more expensive IEMs would be very valuable for us all, and especially still new audiophiles.

Just a thought - imagine a (strictly hypothetical, of course) situation that some IEM for $15 is so really amazing - how hard then would it be to write meaningful positive reviews of similar $50-$100 IEMs for the reviewers.


----------



## vegetaleb

Finally got my ZS4, I liked the new cable, fit wise it's better (in my ears) than ZSR but not as good as ZS3, I guess it's the memory wire being more flexible than ZS3.
I will try them again and also with ZS3 cable
SQ wise they don't have the heavy bloody bass of the ZS3 which is nice, I had to mod the ZS3 to reduce bass and reveal mids, now the ZS4 are even better and without mods.
I think they will be my perfect companions for the incoming ski days


----------



## SybilLance

loomisjohnson said:


> i agree with laughmore that any iem has to meet a quality threshold; it's not a bargain if you won't listen to it. what's really intriguing about chifi is that that threshold keeps dropping--whereas five years ago it was hard to find an acceptable phone for $50, today you can spend $11 on a zsn or einsear or whatever and be content. likewise, the point of diminishing returns has dropped precipitously, which is to say that the incremental  improvement between, say, a good $100 phone and a megabuck one isn't as big as it used to be.
> to use a crude analogy, somebody once described australian wines as "$7 wines which taste like they could be $12"., which with no disrespect to australia, was snarky but valid. now we have $12 iems which, at least in comparison to their mainstream counterparts, really could be >$100. which to me is much of the pleasure of this game.
> thanks for listening. back to work.


Quite. It is a given that in-ear headphones should, first and foremost, have the ability to reproduce music with a certain degree of fidelity—the threshold we’re talking about. On the other hand, that degree may still largely depend on the individual.

A $3,000.00 Shure KSE1500 electrostatic might not even merit a blink from an “audiophile” with deep pockets but I know I would never enjoy it. How could I when every time I insert them into my ears all I could probably think about are the things I could do with that amount to realize my dream kitchen? Or could I say that because I have a 3 thousand dollar IEM everything else that costs less would sound inferior? A snob might.

Again, context. I think about my father with his 2nd-hand Garrard turntable and his DIY Heathkit tube amplifier and DIY speakers playing the precious 78-rpm records his father gave him. Whenever he’d listen after dinner with eyes closed and with hands slowly caressing the air, could I say his immersion in his music back then was any less than what a Michael Fremer would experience, listening to a cost-no-object system?

Pardon the output medium and temporal displacement but it’s intended to emphasize that uncertainties do arise when unfair and improper comparisons are made.

What is not uncertain is the astonishment and delight that would have ensued were my father still alive and in his prime, and were he to listen to a humble KZ IEM such as the ZSN, or even to the sub-3-dollar MX500 earbud I just received as a freebie.


----------



## gbrgbr (Dec 12, 2018)

Can someone who has both the KZ A-Paragraph (straight) and B-Paragraph (angled) cables  please compare the connectors on them and let me know if the part of the connector that actually gets inserted into the socket is *smaller* on the A-Paragraph  cable.
See : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2619#post-14647438

I wanted to get a KZ Type-C cable for my ZSA. I thought I would have to buy the B-Paragraph cable and then cut the connector to fit the ZSA.
Looks like KZ Type-C cable that has to be used with ZSA is actually the A-Paragraph cable (even tho the ZSA has a angled cable).

See this pic, it actually states the straight cable is to be used with the ZSA:







EDIT : Here's another pic from the KZ BT cable :





Actually, if someone has the ZSA and _any_ A-Paragraph cable, see if the cable fits the ZSA.


----------



## SybilLance

Dobrescu George said:


> If you got them for 11 USD, there is no space to complain about them



No, I got them for less. And no, I’m not complaining—I’m celebrating. Celebrating that something that looks this good, that’s built and designed so well (barring the occasional KZ QC misfit), feels expensive, seats so comfortably, comes with the best cable KZ has produced so far, also sounds good across many genres, and with good recordings and gear and amplification sounds even better, could be had for a mere ~$10.78 US.

Surely I’d need space for this, as I’m talking about my purple ZSN and its bright copper cable with the improved connectors. 

I’m also disagreeing with a point—or maybe a couple—in your impressions of the ZSN.


----------



## Dobrescu George

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure why but I hate it when people say (a comment, not about your discussion) "so and so headphone is amazing for so and so dollars."
> 
> I don't think that matters myself, it's about how good the headphone is altogether Sure, it's under $20, $30 or $100 or whatever the case may be... but that doesn't matter to me. Is it worth buying at any price is more important. What do you all think?



If you don't consider the price point, then things are different.

Like, this is amazing if you only have 20$, but if you can pay 100 USD for something like Astrotec AM850, it sounds more detailed, has better textures, more air between the instruments to breathe. Even if you can increase your budget to get KZ AS10 instead of ZSN, it is much better, much better details, more engaging, better resolution, more impact.

Then, if you can pay 300 USD, you get into the Azla Horizon - FiiO FH5 - FLC 8N - Final E5000 - Periodic BE area, where those sound much much better than 100 USD IEMs, this is why I'm saying it sounds good for the price. If you're not taking the price into account, it sounds okay, but that is it. 



PhonoPhi said:


> It would be really great, Dear Sir, if you can kindly compare ZSN with few similar in construction (DD&BA) IEMs in a higher price bracket from your reputable collection. Pointing out in an A/B comparison specific features that can be attained with more expensive IEMs would be very valuable for us all, and especially still new audiophiles.
> 
> Just a thought - imagine a (strictly hypothetical, of course) situation that some IEM for $15 is so really amazing - how hard then would it be to write meaningful positive reviews of similar $50-$100 IEMs for the reviewers.



It would be great if that were so, but it has enough roll off in the treble to say that it isn't better than 50-100USD IEMs. The fact that something less expensive outperforms something considerably more expensive is always something to be happy about, and you can always write positive and meaningful reviews about it  The point of reviewing is sharing news, being honest, and giving insight. ZSN, as interesting as it is, lacks treble extension and lacks resolution / textures.


----------



## Dobrescu George

SybilLance said:


> No, I got them for less. And no, I’m not complaining—I’m celebrating. Celebrating that something that looks this good, that’s built and designed so well (barring the occasional KZ QC misfit), feels expensive, seats so comfortably, comes with the best cable KZ has produced so far, also sounds good across many genres, and with good recordings and gear and amplification sounds even better, could be had for a mere ~$10.78 US.
> 
> Surely I’d need space for this, as I’m talking about my purple ZSN and its bright copper cable with the improved connectors.
> 
> I’m also disagreeing with a point—or maybe a couple—in your impressions of the ZSN.



It is always okay to disagree, but please keep in mind that we all have our backgrounds, and if I heard ZSN 5 years ago, for 10 USD, they'd be the best thing since sliced bread. 

Back then, I couldn't find anything like ZSN, with this sound, for this price, so I upgraded from a 10 USD no-name IEM, which sounded okay, but not even as good as KZ ZSN, and kept breaking ever 1-2 months, directly to IE8 from Sennheiser. I now find 100 USD IEMs that make me feel like IE8 will lower in price soon, and with how quick tech is advancing, I'm sure those 100 USD IEMS, will then cost 50 USD, and so on.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Dobrescu George said:


> If you don't consider the price point, then things are different.
> 
> Like, this is amazing if you only have 20$, but if you can pay 100 USD for something like Astrotec AM850, it sounds more detailed, has better textures, more air between the instruments to breathe. Even if you can increase your budget to get KZ AS10 instead of ZSN, it is much better, much better details, more engaging, better resolution, more impact.
> 
> ...


It will be surely great to write a review about an outperforming IEM, but what about outperformed ones?

No direct comparisons for us?
What about Fiio FH1 - does it have faster bass and more resolution than ZSN, what about the crossover range especially for cellos in a string quartet?

I am still awaiting my ZSN (alas, those postal gnomes, even goblins it seems...) to compare with FH1 and ZSA.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 12, 2018)

PhonoPhi said:


> It will be surely great to write a review about an outperforming IEM, but what about outperformed ones?
> 
> No direct comparisons for us?
> What about Fiio FH1 - does it have faster bass and more resolution than ZSN, what about the crossover range especially for cellos in a string quartet?
> ...



P.S. and my AS10s are surely more enjoyable than Fiio F9 pro to my ears/brain 
(Meant to add it but started a new message, my apologies)


----------



## SybilLance

Dobrescu George said:


> It is always okay to disagree, but please keep in mind that we all have our backgrounds, and if I heard ZSN 5 years ago, for 10 USD, they'd be the best thing since sliced bread.
> 
> Back then, I couldn't find anything like ZSN, with this sound, for this price, so I upgraded from a 10 USD no-name IEM, which sounded okay, but not even as good as KZ ZSN, and kept breaking ever 1-2 months, directly to IE8 from Sennheiser. I now find 100 USD IEMs that make me feel like IE8 will lower in price soon, and with how quick tech is advancing, I'm sure those 100 USD IEMS, will then cost 50 USD, and so on.



Been aware of your background for a long time already, George dear. It was in fact a paragraph in your blog review of the KZ AS10 that became a sort of a nag and caused me to seriously doubt my resolve in keeping with the agreement I made with my husband to refrain from any additional purchases this December after we each made our big One.

These running exchanges about your impressions of the ZSN actually kept my mind away from tapping that "Place Order" button for the AS10 (despite its double-take-eliciting price of ~$32 US) until the Lazada 12.12 sale officially expired some 3 hours ago. So thanks for that. However I do maintain that I still disagree with you on a crucial point or 2.


But I agree with you as regards background, also coming from a musical one myself. Originally I was hard into 2-channel stereo but got hooked on headgear because of my husband.


----------



## Zerohour88

Dobrescu George said:


> If you don't consider the price point, then things are different.



ah, if only it was that easy in real life. The number of IEMs that I would get over any KZ, _shudders_


----------



## mbwilson111

SybilLance said:


> Originally I was hard into 2-channel stereo but got hooked on headgear because of my husband.



We have something in common  I could say the exact same thing.


----------



## durwood

I am curious about price points, I mean other than @crinacle  list, what is the price ranges where you see drastic improvements? Of course there are exceptions, but generally what are the price tiers for subjective drastic improvement? I only have one in the mid tier, so hard for me to compare

Something like this?
<10
10-20
20-50
50-100
100-200
200-400
400-800
800+?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> Originally I was hard into 2-channel stereo but got hooked on headgear because of my husband.


Headgear does seem to be better in many, many different ways. My old $700 stereo with vinyl record player and subwoofer isn't as good as my Zishan Z1 ($30) with KZ ES4 ($15). I find that incredible! Now that I think about it the quality of the sound of my stereo was so bad that the vocals were muffled and I barely knew what they were saying unless I really paid attention. Of course, I could be wrong I sold it a while back but going by memory, Zishan Z1 and ES4 kicks it's ass! And, it's transportable!


----------



## Dobrescu George

PhonoPhi said:


> It will be surely great to write a review about an outperforming IEM, but what about outperformed ones?
> 
> No direct comparisons for us?
> What about Fiio FH1 - does it have faster bass and more resolution than ZSN, what about the crossover range especially for cellos in a string quartet?
> ...



I do not have FiiO FH1 sadly, and cannot do a direct comparison... 

As for writing about something outperformed, that can be interesting as an experience. A company should really avoid creating something outperformed at launch, that's their duty, but if they fail, usually reviewrs do catch on it (you can search reviews on Flares Jet 2). 

Older models are typically outperformed by newer ones, like Sennheiser IE8 is outperformed by FLC8N, Azla Horizon, FiiO FH5, Final E5000. Keeping in mind that Ie8 doesn't sell anymore, it doesn't make much sense to write about it though, but it was the first good IEM I bought, and that was back in 2010, so it did its job for all those years, can't complain that someone managed to create something better. I am not sure if all companies creating well performing IEMs now even existed back then, so back then it was doing well, but now, the same money can bring you better


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

B9Scrambler said:


> It costs a lot to store all that info on servers. The company I work for keeps only very basic records for account activity older than 2002 for this reason. Can't imagine how much Amazon spends yearly on data storage O_O


Amazon keeps all their data in the "Cloud".


----------



## Danfish98

gbrgbr said:


> Can someone who has both the KZ A-Paragraph (straight) and B-Paragraph (angled) cables  please compare the connectors on them and let me know if the part of the connector that actually gets inserted into the socket is *smaller* on the A-Paragraph  cable.
> See : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2619#post-14647438
> 
> I wanted to get a KZ Type-C cable for my ZSA. I thought I would have to buy the B-Paragraph cable and then cut the connector to fit the ZSA.
> ...



I'll try to remember to take the wife's USB C A cable to work tomorrow to check its ZSA fit.


----------



## gbrgbr

Danfish98 said:


> I'll try to remember to take the wife's USB C A cable to work tomorrow to check its ZSA fit.



Thanks. If it does fit, it means when anyone wants a replacement/upgrade/BT cable for a ZSA they can order a A-Paragraph cable.


----------



## SybilLance

I still feel bad about missing out on that terrific $32 AS10 deal yesterday. Got a sympathetic kiss and arm-over-the-shoulder from the husband, who then gave me another of those enigmatic smiles. Did it make me feel better? Sure did. For a time. It also made me curious as an expletive.

In the meantime I'm putting the new green ZS6 through its paces. OOTB sounded just a baby's breath brighter than my red one. Hope the ball-shaped foam tips recommended by hakuzen—or was it Slater?—would attenuate the highs like it did the red one, but not by too much. The opening on the tips of the recent set I got are narrower than that of my previous ones by a millimeter at least. I'm letting the green settle as I go through my "reference" albums.

Speaking of green, the "silver" upgrade cable of the red ZS6 is turning a shade into that despite my best efforts at TLC. There are specks near the Y-split and at the ends leading to the connectors the verdigris is even more manifest. One area where KZ definitely needs to improve is its SPC cables. 

As for the red ZS6, it’s still my favorite. If the ZSN were not so comfortable and not so easy to insert, the ZS6 would be my daily pair.


----------



## Slater

SybilLance said:


> Speaking of green, the "silver" upgrade cable of the red ZS6 is turning a shade into that despite my best efforts at TLC. There are specks near the Y-split and at the ends leading to the connectors the verdigris is even more manifest. One area where KZ definitely needs to improve is its SPC cables.



Which upgrade cable is it? The flat 8-braided one with the metal 2-pin ends? The thin 4-braided one?

If you don’t care about the ear wires (or are willing to remove them), the cables can be dyed any color. I’ve dyed all of my flat 8-braided cables black.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 13, 2018)

Slater said:


> Which upgrade cable is it? The flat 8-braided one with the metal 2-pin ends? The thin 4-braided one?
> 
> If you don’t care about the ear wires (or are willing to remove them), the cables can be dyed any color. I’ve dyed all of my flat 8-braided cables black.



@eclein it's your dreaded...Fungus amungus! 






Oh Woe! 

@Slater would you happen to have a silver dye solution?  

I wonder if the oxidation will have any bearing on cable conductivity/resistance, impedance, skin effect, etc...
Uh-oh...never mind, let's not go into that. 



mbwilson111 said:


> We have something in common  I could say the exact same thing.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> the cables can be dyed any color. I’ve dyed all of my flat 8-braided cables black.


How did you dye them?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

If anyone's curious... the KZ IE7 isn't worth buying. the KZ ATR is a much more enjoyable listen.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 13, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If anyone's curious... the KZ IE7 isn't worth buying. the KZ ATR is a much more enjoyable listen.


Sorry for Your money lost. Why didn`t You ask from here? KZ IE7 is old as grandfathers beard. Newest ATR and ATE (non-S) use exactly same drivers, same shell and sound same.
I still like ATE and for 4$ it can be found occasionally - best deal ever imho ... though, ZSN for 14$ kills it with the SQ it offers. ZSN SQ vs. price is just obliterating ATE.


----------



## Zerohour88

durwood said:


> I am curious about price points, I mean other than @crinacle  list, what is the price ranges where you see drastic improvements? Of course there are exceptions, but generally what are the price tiers for subjective drastic improvement? I only have one in the mid tier, so hard for me to compare
> 
> Something like this?
> <10
> ...



unfortunately its not that simple, since price doesn't necessarily correlate to quality.

Good things are usually expensive, but cheap things aren't necessarily bad.

That's why most reviews only include comparisons to others in the same price bracket, too much headache to decide if something more cheaper or more expensive "plays in the same league" and include them in the comparison (unless there's some special circumstances like hype and so forth).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> Sorry for Your money lost. Why didn`t You ask from here? KZ IE7 is old as grandfathers beard. Newest ATR and ATE (non-S) use exactly same drivers, same shell and sound same.
> I still like ATE and for 4$ it can be found occasionally - best deal ever imho ... though, ZSN for 14$ kills it with the SQ it offers. ZSN SQ vs. price is just obliterating ATE.


Yeah, those models are obsolete now. I am not sure how old the IE7 is but I bought it like 2 years ago... I just never used it. I look forward to hearing ZSN! I just found out today that an Aliexpress vendor cancelled my ZSN order without telling me almost 3 weeks ago. Stupid Canada Post strike. 


So you like the ATE better then the ATR... I guess it doesn't matter since the ZSN is out.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 13, 2018)

I wish someone with equipment would do comparison between OOTB ZSN vs. ~100h playtime ZSN.
Why?
Well, I`m not sure but it seems that my purple ZSN highs have "calmed down" littlebit.
I have let them play around 90h without listening and I hear that treble between around 2.5-5kHz have "softer" timbre and not so "screetching/metallic" as before. I can now raise 6kHz EQ bar on my QNGEE X2 one notch higher without getting so "harsh" but still give some extra "sprinkle" at highs. For example I can now listen to _Twelve Foot Ninja - Outlier_ without melting my ears off from hot treble and cymbals sound not so "metallic/digital" as before.
Maybe I`m just having placebo, idk.

Edit:


LaughMoreDaily said:


> So you like the ATE better then the ATR... I guess it doesn't matter since the ZSN is out.





CoiL said:


> Newest ATR and ATE (non-S) use exactly same drivers, same shell and sound same.


----------



## pashhtk27

KZ ATR is the only earphone that I haven't grown bored of. It is so special.
I really wish they made something with the same mature sound signature but better technical ability and design (detachable braided cables, faceplates and all)

For under $5, nothing comes close. You could buy three of them for the price of a ZSR! (And make three people happy)


----------



## Slater (Dec 13, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How did you dye them?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2507#post-14577673

For best results, the memory wires need to be removed. Otherwise, the dye cannot get under the shrink tubing that encases the wire.

Removing the memory wire significantly increases comfort though, so it’s a win-win. Also, that flat braided cable is heavy enough that the memory wires are not even necessary.

It is still possible to dye the cable with the memory wire - the only difference is the short memory wire section stays the original silver color (including any green oxidation).


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 13, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Yeah, those models are obsolete now. I am not sure how old the IE7 is but I bought it like 2 years ago... I just never used it. I look forward to hearing ZSN! *I just found out today that an Aliexpress vendor cancelled my ZSN order without telling me almost 3 weeks ago. Stupid Canada Post strike.*
> 
> 
> So you like the ATE better then the ATR... I guess it doesn't matter since the ZSN is out.


Wow!...That was an unfortunate situation! I was really looking forward for your impressions on the ZSN. 

 Are you still going to try to order them again?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Forgot how much I loved the ATR. And, it sounds even more AMAZING out of this Zishan DSD brick. I don't think I've ever heard it sound so full and robust.


----------



## Slater (Dec 13, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> @eclein it's your dreaded...Fungus amungus!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, metallic colors (and white) are not possible. Any other color is ok though - green, purple, orange, brown, black, blue, red, etc.

It would be possible to do a transparent black dye (vs opaque). It would be like a very light window tint. In this case, it will be possible to see the metallic silver wire underneath (in bright light).

As far as oxidation, it actually helps protect the wire.

Think of wire like a garden hose. The electrical energy traveling through the wire is like water inside the hose. Oxidation is on the outside of the wire conductor. This is like painting the outside of a garden hose, or the hose getting dirty. This has no effect on the water inside of the hose - it doesn’t affect the volume of water, it’s cleanliness, the water pressure, etc. The outside of the hose is cosmetic.

The only exception to this is with crimped connections. Since crimped connections make physical contact with the outside of the wire, these types of connections are definitely degraded as the wire oxidizes. However, this does not affect our audio gear as they use soldered connections.


----------



## CthulhuNinja

voicemaster said:


> Why it takes so long for vendor in Aliexpress to ship their order?


Probably due to level of stock in warehouses. My latest orders including purple KZN and 2.5" balanced KZ cable shipped in 20 min after clearing payment, and previous cyan KZN delivered in 9 days which is unholy record for my country


----------



## djfoo000

Is the AS10 being super sensitive to noisy source a common observation? I have an ES4 and an AS10, and use them on my Samsung Galaxy S9. I can't really fully enjoy the AS10 with songs that have parts of it being low volume (Within by Daft Punk being my go-to example, but podcasts in general will exhibit the hiss too), because the background hiss is far too obvious. The hiss is imperceptible using the ES4. It's a shame because I really like how the AS10 sounds. Listening to music that are consistently "busy" like KPop is fine.

I'm obsessed with finding low-cost solutions for the hiss, and my inline volume control is on its way from eBay (found one with TRRS plug so that it works with my 3rd party cable that has clicky volume buttons and play/pause), but am reading that it will somehow affect the sound output. Really don't want to dump money on an IEmatch, considering the IEmatch is almost twice the price of an AS10 lol.


----------



## blur.png

my ZSN(purple) just arrived a couple hours ago, and first impressions... not impressed.

swapped out the tips to foam since its i dont like silicone, 
comfort is fine, not as comfortable as the es4 though,
my main criticism is that the vocals, claps, cymbals & saxophones felt a bit too forward or harsh for my taste
and because it has vent holes everywhere, i can hear the wind whistling (like when you cover your ears with only 3 fingers albeit quieter) though you wont hear it once the music starts playing
the bass is about the same compared to the es4 & stronger than the zs6, its also a pretty loud iem too, which makes it easy to drive
imaging is comparable to es4 & soundstage feels wider than the es4, the es4 is a very intimate sounding iem for me
and thats about it really, for now i dont really like it, it just feels average... maybe because i havent burn them in enough or its just not my sound profile, personally i prefer the es4 compared to the zsn

if i want to be even more unfair, i compared it to the V80, and this thing just get steamrolled by it in every single way (except the design)
i might make a new impression after i burn it in for a whole week


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Forgot how much I loved the ATR. And, it sounds even more AMAZING out of this Zishan DSD brick. I don't think I've ever heard it sound so full and robust.



You are so right B9, IMHO they were putting out iem's so fast that no one really stopped to take in the ATR and all it's capabilities Now keep in mind this is just the Pods ears but ATR was a reinvented ATE with a smoothed out response in all areas. I use mine for so many things outside the house, Lawn work, Gym and shopping errands for the Mrs. They are a diamond in the plethora of lost KZ's IMO and if anyone who likes the basic KZ sound signature should sure pick a pair up

Today or rather this morning I'm enjoying me some Floyd on still my fave KZ I know we all hear them differently and YMMV on my fave

Top Pocket Party goin' on


----------



## Danfish98

gbrgbr said:


> Thanks. If it does fit, it means when anyone wants a replacement/upgrade/BT cable for a ZSA they can order a A-Paragraph cable.


Can now confirm the A-paragraph cable fits the ZSA.


----------



## Luxed

djfoo000 said:


> Is the AS10 being super sensitive to noisy source a common observation? I have an ES4 and an AS10, and use them on my Samsung Galaxy S9. I can't really fully enjoy the AS10 with songs that have parts of it being low volume (Within by Daft Punk being my go-to example, but podcasts in general will exhibit the hiss too), because the background hiss is far too obvious. The hiss is imperceptible using the ES4. It's a shame because I really like how the AS10 sounds. Listening to music that are consistently "busy" like KPop is fine.
> 
> I'm obsessed with finding low-cost solutions for the hiss, and my inline volume control is on its way from eBay (found one with TRRS plug so that it works with my 3rd party cable that has clicky volume buttons and play/pause), but am reading that it will somehow affect the sound output. Really don't want to dump money on an IEmatch, considering the IEmatch is almost twice the price of an AS10 lol.


I've noticed that too, this is how I realized that my AC is noisy as hell, so I can't use my magni 3 to use the as10 on my desktop... 
But on my fiio X1II, there is 0 background noise, it's dead silent. That one of the perks of having a separate music player 
I've seen some people say that having a "bad" cable can reduce the noise (a cable that takes more power, I don't really know how it works but I'm sure someone can help you)


----------



## schom

Conest said:


> Is it good for ZSA ?


sorry i didnt test it for ZSA.


----------



## Podster

blur.png said:


> my ZSN(purple) just arrived a couple hours ago, and first impressions... not impressed.
> 
> swapped out the tips to foam since its i dont like silicone,
> comfort is fine, not as comfortable as the es4 though,
> ...



Three suggestions!

1. Keep Tip Rolling

2. 90+ hours burn moderate volume

3. Knowing the efficiency and lean to brightness use a tad less VU

If that does not bring them around for you I'd suggest staying away from any bright signatures I'll agree on the looks take for sure


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 13, 2018)

Podster said:


> You are so right B9, IMHO they were putting out iem's so fast that no one really stopped to take in the ATR and all it's capabilities Now keep in mind this is just the Pods ears but ATR was a reinvented ATE with a smoothed out response in all areas. I use mine for so many things outside the house, Lawn work, Gym and shopping errands for the Mrs. They are a diamond in the plethora of lost KZ's IMO and if anyone who likes the basic KZ sound signature should sure pick a pair up
> 
> Today or rather this morning I'm enjoying me some Floyd on still my fave KZ I know we all hear them differently and YMMV on my fave
> 
> Top Pocket Party goin' on





B9Scrambler said:


> Forgot how much I loved the ATR. And, it sounds even more AMAZING out of this Zishan DSD brick. I don't think I've ever heard it sound so full and robust.



+1 and +1.

I've always considered the ATR one of the greatest of sleepers in the KZ pantheon just like the HDS3, EDR1 and ED3 "Perfection".

 

The ATR is difficult to find through a reputable seller. It can be done but stock is depleting and once they're gone.......

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews



Some KZ's grab you by the collar with a smile and say "let's have some fuuuuunnnnn!!!!"

The ATR stands nearby, looks down to the ground then looks out to the horizon and says to you "what should we do today?"


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 13, 2018)

*** edit ***

stupid  "smart"-phone!!!


----------



## Podster (Dec 13, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> *** edit ***
> 
> stupid  "smart"-phone!!!



LOL, ROTFLMAO May have even spit a little coffee on my keyboard

Almost forgot to mention I love that shot with your matching tips and guides DocNot too mention anyone who finds a pair out there that store probably owes you a locators fee


----------



## Dobrescu George

SybilLance said:


> @eclein it's your dreaded...Fungus amungus!



Fungus Amongus?  

Any Incubus fans around here?


----------



## gbrgbr

Danfish98 said:


> Can now confirm the A-paragraph cable fits the ZSA.



Wow, so KZ supplied a angled A-paragraph cable with the ZSA !

It's actually quite difficult to find a A-paragraph KZ Type-C cable right now. Guess the ZZ5 and ZS6 owners have snapped them up 

Since I intend using the ZSA with my computer I was wondering if a cheapo PCM2706+ES9023 USB DAC would be a better option?


----------



## Danfish98

Dobrescu George said:


> Fungus Amongus?
> 
> Any Incubus fans around here?



More of a S.C.I.E.N.C.E. fan but love me some old school Incubus. A shame the new stuff is so lacklusterlackluster in comparison.


----------



## Danfish98

gbrgbr said:


> Wow, so KZ supplied a angled A-paragraph cable with the ZSA !
> 
> It's actually quite difficult to find a A-paragraph KZ Type-C cable right now. Guess the ZZ5 and ZS6 owners have snapped them up
> 
> Since I intend using the ZSA with my computer I was wondering if a cheapo PCM2706+ES9023 USB DAC would be a better option?


Personally I find the KZ USB C cables to be rather bright. For the less bright options like the ES4 or ZS10 it's great. Turns the ES4 into a detail monster and I'll evaluate the ZS10 as well if I can handle the awful fit for long enough to form an opinion. As for the ZSA, I don't like what it does to the sound at all. The ZSA treble is already borderline and this cable/DAC crosses it over into the sibilant territory.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Dec 13, 2018)

blur.png said:


> my ZSN(purple) just arrived a couple hours ago, and first impressions... not impressed.
> comfort is fine, not as comfortable as the es4 though,
> my main criticism is that the vocals, claps, cymbals & saxophones felt a bit too forward or harsh for my taste
> and thats about it really, for now i dont really like it, it just feels average... maybe because i havent burn them in enough or its just not my sound profile, personally i prefer the es4 compared to the zsn



lucky KZ makes the ES4 for people who might like a different sound sig then. Funny that the forward mids are my fav parts of the ZSN (due to my love for earbuds).



djfoo000 said:


> Is the AS10 being super sensitive to noisy source a common observation? I have an ES4 and an AS10, and use them on my Samsung Galaxy S9. I can't really fully enjoy the AS10 with songs that have parts of it being low volume (Within by Daft Punk being my go-to example, but podcasts in general will exhibit the hiss too), because the background hiss is far too obvious. The hiss is imperceptible using the ES4. It's a shame because I really like how the AS10 sounds. Listening to music that are consistently "busy" like KPop is fine.
> 
> I'm obsessed with finding low-cost solutions for the hiss, and my inline volume control is on its way from eBay (found one with TRRS plug so that it works with my 3rd party cable that has clicky volume buttons and play/pause), but am reading that it will somehow affect the sound output. Really don't want to dump money on an IEmatch, considering the IEmatch is almost twice the price of an AS10 lol.



For a low-cost IEMatch (or a headphone attenuator, as its called), you can make it yourself using this guide

I just made mine a few days ago using supplies from the local electronic shop (being a rural area, they didn't have much, so I had to make do with stuff like low-quality resistors and that god-awful bulky 3.5mm female port)

Cost was usd$4 or so? probably even cheaper, but it was cheap enough that I didn't take note. Soldered everything up (no high-quality silver solder here) and improvised as I went.

completely removed all hiss from my source to the Andromeda (didn't imagine it could even more resolving, but it did, probably due to the now-black background), quite happy with the results, even if I might've preferred something more elegant-looking. Might just order all my parts online next time and make something prettier (if I get the mood for it).

for now, this will get some heat-shrink wrap and epoxy cement, but that's about it, I guess.


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> +1 and +1.
> 
> I've always considered the ATR one of the greatest of sleepers in the KZ pantheon just like the HDS3, EDR1 and ED3 "Perfection".
> 
> ...



Since the latest version of the ATR has the exact same driver as the ATE, it may be easier/cheaper to find an ATE.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 13, 2018)

Podster said:


> LOL, ROTFLMAO May have even spit a little coffee on my keyboard
> 
> Almost forgot to mention I love that shot with your matching tips and guides DocNot too mention anyone who finds a pair out there that store probably owes you a locators fee




Thanks Pod. 

Those are Rock Zircon eartips. I used the Rock Zircon for a few hours last week and have come to the conclusion that they are awful in-ears. Hard to believe that I thought they were OK a few years ago. At least it wasn't a total waste of $20. They've contributed to a relatively inexpensive education about sound signatures and the unique Zircon eartips are great. If I can find the Zircon for less than $10 then I might pick up another set just for the eartips.

Also, +1 on the ZS6 being an absolute favorite. It's one of a handful of trusted in-ears when I want to "just be" with the music.



 The BA10 seems to have calmed and truth be told, once it settles it can proudly stand shoulder to shoulder with the ZS6 as its sibling. The ergonomics and spotty feedback mean that the BA10 will likely become an overlooked KZ.......which is a pity. It really is one of KZ's best despite the ergonomics. It will be another missed opportunity for most but it gets just as much playtime as my ZS6 these days (not on my phone or power-efficient DAPs). Give it a low ouput impedance source, let it settle and you're golden.

p.s. - the upper-midrange and lower-treble are on the edge so 8 out of 10 listeners should be using foamies. I hate foamies but, FYI, the olive shaped foam eartips fit the best on the BA10.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 13, 2018)

djfoo000 said:


> Is the AS10 being super sensitive to noisy source a common observation? I have an ES4 and an AS10, and use them on my Samsung Galaxy S9. I can't really fully enjoy the AS10 with songs that have parts of it being low volume (Within by Daft Punk being my go-to example, but podcasts in general will exhibit the hiss too), because the background hiss is far too obvious. The hiss is imperceptible using the ES4. It's a shame because I really like how the AS10 sounds. Listening to music that are consistently "busy" like KPop is fine.
> 
> I'm obsessed with finding low-cost solutions for the hiss, and my inline volume control is on its way from eBay (found one with TRRS plug so that it works with my 3rd party cable that has clicky volume buttons and play/pause), but am reading that it will somehow affect the sound output. Really don't want to dump money on an IEmatch, considering the IEmatch is almost twice the price of an AS10 lol.





Luxed said:


> I've noticed that too, this is how I realized that my AC is noisy as hell, so I can't use my magni 3 to use the as10 on my desktop...
> But on my fiio X1II, there is 0 background noise, it's dead silent. That one of the perks of having a separate music player
> I've seen some people say that having a "bad" cable can reduce the noise (a cable that takes more power, I don't really know how it works but I'm sure someone can help you)


It seems like you and Tihstea all have the same problem with your AS10. I'm curious: Is the hiss audible with the volume turned all the way down? Or does it manifest only with music?

The AS10's published impedance of 14 Ohms and sensitivity of 104 dB (assuming these are accurate) would already mark it as a sensitive in-ear. If the actual sensitivity were higher (which is probable) maybe that might account for the hiss. If it were some other background noise maybe the actual measured impedance of the AS10 is lower and there might be a poor match between it and your source gear. Going by the 1/8th Rule, the source output impedance should be at most 14 Ohm/8 = 1.75 Ohm. That's quite a low requirement (I remember reading somewhere—reddit, perhaps?—that the S9's 3.5 mm audio jack has a rather high output impedance, but I'm not really sure). Furthermore, the all-BA design of the AS10 means it is rather prone to large (hence, audible) frequency response deviations with higher source output impedance.

The sad thing is only a few companies publish the output impedance specification of their audio products.

Some (like me, before) try so-called passive "impedance adapters" to resolve a headphone noise problem. Others get pricey commercial gadgets like iFi Audio's iEMatch. Many with the necessary skills like Zerohour make their own version thereof. Most I suppose (like me, now) look for better-engineered gear.


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 13, 2018)

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2507#post-14577673
> 
> For best results, the memory wires need to be removed. Otherwise, the dye cannot get under the shrink tubing that encases the wire.
> 
> ...



Thanks! I'll study the guide.



Slater said:


> Unfortunately, metallic colors (and white) are not possible. Any other color is ok though - green, purple, orange, brown, black, blue, red, etc.
> 
> It would be possible to do a transparent black dye (vs opaque). It would be like a very light window tint. In this case, it will be possible to see the metallic silver wire underneath (in bright light).
> 
> ...



On second thought, if the entire cable would eventually turn into a nice green color, it would be perfect for the green ZS6. The question now is: how long..?



Zerohour88 said:


> lucky KZ makes the ES4 for people who might like a different sound sig then. Funny that the forward mids are my fav parts of the ZSN (due to my love for earbuds).
> 
> For a low-cost IEMatch (or a headphone attenuator, as its called), you can make it yourself using this guide
> 
> ...



I wish I have the skills to do what you can do, make my own electronic thingamajig from scratch.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks Pod.
> 
> Those are Rock Zircon eartips. I used the Rock Zircon for a few hours last week and have come to the conclusion that they are awful in-ears. Hard to believe that I thought they were OK a few years ago. At least it wasn't a total waste of $20. They've contributed to a relatively inexpensive education about sound signatures and the unique Zircon eartips are great. If I can find the Zircon for less than $10 then I might pick up another set just for the eartips.
> 
> ...




That Hooligan mix is nice and calming Yeah the Rocks are great for kids who like Hip Hop and bass heavy stuff but to me they sound like mud Shells are sweet and those tip are good, seal well. I keep going back and forth on the BA10, I'm one of the oddballs that actually likes the toaster design  But just can't seem to bite on a KZ costing more than $40 As a fan of the Beastie Boys, Max Headroom and the Fun Lovin' Criminals MC900Ft Jesus makes my day every time I play them As always YMMV

So if you've not heard him/them let me give you my morning selections today


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 13, 2018)

Podster said:


> I keep going back and forth on the BA10, I'm one of the oddballs that actually likes the toaster design  But just can't seem to bite on a KZ costing more than $40



LOL, "toaster" design is about the best description I've heard to date.......cracked me right up.



Podster said:


> That Hooligan mix is nice and calming Yeah the Rocks are great for kids who like Hip Hop and bass heavy stuff but to me they sound like mud



Agreed, the Rock Zircon's should be shipped with rubber boots and a shovel.



With the BA10, as is usual with KZ models, some will hate them and some will love them (ZS10, ZS6, etc.) but no need to rush. Wait until the price drops to $60+/- and pick up a set. The ZS6 is only $30 and the ZS10 is approximately $30+/- today, so.......

That Hooligan mix and these little ditties are chill out staples for me...


Spoiler











...mostly enjoyed via my ZS6.





Thanks for the tunes. I'll check them out.


----------



## durwood

CoiL said:


> I wish someone with equipment would do comparison between OOTB ZSN vs. ~100h playtime ZSN.
> Why?
> Well, I`m not sure but it seems that my purple ZSN highs have "calmed down" littlebit.
> I have let them play around 90h without listening and I hear that treble between around 2.5-5kHz have "softer" timbre and not so "screetching/metallic" as before. I can now raise 6kHz EQ bar on my QNGEE X2 one notch higher without getting so "harsh" but still give some extra "sprinkle" at highs. For example I can now listen to _Twelve Foot Ninja - Outlier_ without melting my ears off from hot treble and cymbals sound not so "metallic/digital" as before.
> ...


 Challenge accepted! When they arrive. I don't think we will see any changes in the freq response graph, but am open to suggestions on other measurements.


----------



## HAMS (Dec 13, 2018)

blur.png said:


> my ZSN(purple) just arrived a couple hours ago, and first impressions... not impressed.
> 
> swapped out the tips to foam since its i dont like silicone,
> comfort is fine, not as comfortable as the es4 though,
> ...



Hi, how do you compare the fit against Trn V80 which more comfortable? And how do you describe both sounds?


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> LOL, "toaster" design is about the best description I've heard to date.......cracked me right up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




THX Doc, some nice mellow stuff right there, fraid mine is a little more aggressive But as mentioned it does get ones mind going


----------



## Tihstea (Dec 13, 2018)

Slater said:


> Since the latest version of the ATR has the exact same driver as the ATE, it may be easier/cheaper to find an ATE.



They are both up at the KZ Official Store on aliexpress with each having like 400 in stock (possibly more). I've ordered 3 pairs of these in the past few years and they always arrive here (a small European country) within 7 to 10 days. For sure the fastest delivery of any store on Aliexpress I've ever dealt with.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...phones-For-Running-With-Foam/32337313320.html



SybilLance said:


> It seems like you and Tihstea all have the same problem with your AS10. I'm curious: Is the hiss audible with the volume turned all the way down? Or does it manifest only with music?.



More often than not the actual volume of the music does not affect it at all (Same hiss, no matter the volume). I've observed different behavior from different sources though. On the iphone 4, it's just a constant hiss. On an iphone 6s, it's not that obvious, but lets say I'm touching the screen, moving something, actually using the touch controls, I hear some electric current noise as a reaction to me using the touch screen. (I'm almost positive that the  I dug up an old ipod nano - constant hiss. Then I dug up an iPod touch 3g - there the actual volume affected the "volume" of the hiss, aka less volume less hiss, but still a constant hiss. Also in some devices it's a constant hiss (my pc jack and ipod nano), whereas on the phones, it's like they are turning on and off. When you just plug them in, there is no noise. But as soon as you play a sound, the hiss appears, as if you "turn" them on. If you then stop playing sounds, they stay "turned" on for about 30 sec, before the noise disappears. Note that the hiss with the original cable is less loud than the hiss present with a TRN 8-core cable.

There is no hiss when using them on a Samsung Galaxy S9+.

So the answer to your question is, sadly, yes, on most devices the volume does not affect the loudness of the hiss. It stays constant.

On a different note, I'm not sure if this placebo or not, or if burning in is actually a real thing, but after using them for a while I'm kinda digging them now, but I still love my ATR....


----------



## blur.png

HAMS said:


> Hi, how do you compare the fit against Trn V80 which more comfortable? And how do you describe both sounds?


i did say the V80 steamrolled it, so comfort wise its much better since its smaller, V80 is almost 2x the price of the ZSN so this will be unfair, IMO the ZSN is a very aggressive sounding earphone with its bright & forward signature, some might like it some might not (i don't), IMO the V80 managed to feel bright & sparkly on the far end but not ear piercing.

if i use 1 music as an example, twothirds-skywards, the saxophone & keyboard in the ZSN is very forward,claps also feel louder, with the bass being more laid back when its playing, 
the opposite of the V80, where the sax is more relaxed & laid back while not being muffled, with the bass being more prominent, with no obvious harshness/aggressiveness to the tone, and the claps feel sparkly than the ZSN while not ear piercing.

so thats the brief description of how both earphone sounds in my experience



Tihstea said:


> ...I've observed different behavior from different sources though. On the iphone 4, it's just a constant hiss. On an iphone 6s, it's not that obvious, but lets say I'm touching the screen, moving something, actually using the touch controls, I hear some electric current noise as a reaction to me using the touch screen. (I'm almost positive that the  I dug up an old ipod nano - constant hiss. Then I dug up an iPod touch 3g - there the actual volume affected the "volume" of the hiss, aka less volume less hiss, but still a constant hiss. Also in some devices it's a constant hiss (my pc jack and ipod nano), whereas on the phones, it's like they are turning on and off. When you just plug them in, there is no noise. But as soon as you play a sound, the hiss appears, as if you "turn" them on. If you then stop playing sounds, they stay "turned" on for about 30 sec, before the noise disappears. Note that the hiss with the original cable is less loud than the hiss present with a TRN 8-core cable.
> 
> There is no hiss when using them on a Samsung Galaxy S9+.
> 
> So the answer to your question is, sadly, yes, on most devices the volume does not affect the loudness of the hiss. It stays constant.


the TRN V80 also have the same problem, using the stock cable on my phone when im opening an aplication or navigating through menu, say the music player, electric hiss also plays and also makes popping sounds, my cheap & garbo mp3 player has a constant hiss even when nothing is running, and my laptop gives off some background noise aswell, but if im listening music using my camera (yes you read it right), there is no hiss/pops with the stock cable, i switched the cable to kz's and the hiss is gone since i ruined the stock cable by accident
i guess both are just an extremely sensitive iem then


----------



## CoiL

durwood said:


> Challenge accepted! When they arrive. I don't think we will see any changes in the freq response graph, but am open to suggestions on other measurements.


You have 2? one with ~100h playtime (with music and pink/white noise mixed) and other coming as new? 
I`m also suspecting FR graphs wont show any difference but who knows, maybe. Waiting for comparison.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Danfish98 said:


> More of a S.C.I.E.N.C.E. fan but love me some old school Incubus. A shame the new stuff is so lacklusterlackluster in comparison.



Agreed, I love Science as well, but I could never get into the new Incubus stuff, a bit stiff and flat, compared to their early work, which was pure genius


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> Cool.  Either way I want to buy another cable exactly like the one that came with my purple ZSN.  It is pretty.  I would put it on my Cyan either SE or re-terminated balanced.



The ZSN cable is a 4 wire braid up to the splitter and twisted pair above it.  I removed the factory 3.5mm Jack and replaced it with a 2.5mm balanced from Moon Audio that I had in a drawer. (At $15 for the connector, it cost more than the ZSN).   ZSN works fine in balanced mode, but I honestly cant tell that it made any difference in the sound signature once volume matched.

Anyone with a reasonable amount of soldering skill and a continuity tester should be able to map the wires and re-solder the 2.5mm on for you.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> The ZSN cable is a 4 wire braid up to the splitter and twisted pair above it.  I removed the factory 3.5mm Jack and replaced it with a 2.5mm balanced from Moon Audio that I had in a drawer. (At $15 for the connector, it cost more than the ZSN).   ZSN works fine in balanced mode, but I honestly cant tell that it made any difference in the sound signature once volume matched.
> 
> Anyone with a reasonable amount of soldering skill and a continuity tester should be able to map the wires and re-solder the 2.5mm on for you.



Thanks, did you do this with the brown cable or with the silver upgrade cable?  I never know if this type of change makes a difference in sound quality or not, but I do  have a very good balanced output on my iBasso DX120 that I would like to make more use of.   I would not want to spend that much on a plug though because if KZ does make a balanced cable it might not even cost as much as that plug.  Did you take any photos?


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks, did you do this with the brown cable or with the silver upgrade cable?  I never know if this type of change makes a difference in sound quality or not, but I do  have a very good balanced output on my iBasso DX120 that I would like to make more use of.   I would not want to spend that much on a plug though because if KZ does make a balanced cable it might not even cost as much as that plug.  Did you take any photos?



Mine was the brown cable off the gray/black ZSN.   I think you can find a 2.5mm TRRS solder on connector for well less somewhere else, I just happened to have that one handy.  I didn't grab pictures when I did it today.  (did it at the office where I have better soldering gear.)   I'll see if I can grab a couple tomorrow time permitting.

I think if I were going to do it as more than an experiment, I'd be tempted to find a 90 degree 2.5 jack to use instead of the straight too so it is less likely to get knocked around.


----------



## mbwilson111

Wiljen said:


> Mine was the brown cable off the gray/black ZSN.   I think you can find a 2.5mm TRRS solder on connector for well less somewhere else, I just happened to have that one handy.  I didn't grab pictures when I did it today.  (did it at the office where I have better soldering gear.)   I'll see if I can grab a couple tomorrow time permitting.
> 
> I think if I were going to do it as more than an experiment, I'd be tempted to find a 90 degree 2.5 jack to use instead of the straight too so it is less likely to get knocked around.



Actually I prefer straight plugs.  All the balanced cables we have here do have straight plugs.  Right angle plugs always  manage to annoy me.  Don't take yours apart to take photos.  I was interested in how the wires looked and thought maybe you had photos.  Next time


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually I prefer straight plugs.  All the balanced cables we have here do have straight plugs.  Right angle plugs always  manage to annoy me.  Don't take yours apart to take photos.  I was interested in how the wires looked and thought maybe you had photos.  Next time



The stock cable is pure copper (or appears to be) stranded at about 28-30 gauge strands.  the strands themselves are about the same size as stranded cat5 cable but fewer of them per bundle.   Soldering wasnt a problem I just hit the wire with a bit of tinning flux and then coated it with solder before attaching it to the jack.


----------



## Zerohour88

SybilLance said:


> I wish I have the skills to do what you can do, make my own electronic thingamajig from scratch.



haha, I want to say that its not exactly hard, but for people with zero experience, it would be quite intimidating to even start. 

my advice to start would be to get a decent quality soldering tool, some wires to practice stripping and some practice boards to practice soldering. Once you get those basics down, then you can just improvise as you need. A multimeter would be nice too.

While having a low-impedance source from the start would be the ideal thing, people who might have powerful amps that they want to use with IEMs can also use the attenuator. Or maybe just want to play with higher volumes range on their source.


----------



## Slater (Dec 13, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Thanks, did you do this with the brown cable or with the silver upgrade cable?  I never know if this type of change makes a difference in sound quality or not, but I do  have a very good balanced output on my iBasso DX120 that I would like to make more use of.   I would not want to spend that much on a plug though because if KZ does make a balanced cable it might not even cost as much as that plug.  Did you take any photos?



Don’t forget, you can use the ZSN with any KZ or TRN cable. It just sticks up a tiny bit.

I’ve tested the ZSN with the old KZ upgrade cables, the new TRN fldual color 8-wire braided cables, the TRN BT10, the BQEYZ stock cable, TRN silver cable, and the TRN BT20.

It fits with all of them (just sticks up as mentioned).

I can post a photo if you want.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Don’t forget, you can use the ZSN with any KZ or TRN cable. It just sticks up a tiny bit.
> 
> I’ve tested the ZSN with the old KZ upgrade cables, the new TRN fldual color 8-wire braided cables, the TRN BT10, the BQEYZ stock cable, TRN silver cable, and the TRN BT20.
> 
> ...



Photo would help.  I am thinking it would not look right... especially if the connector is not clear like the bit on the shell.


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> I wish someone with equipment would do comparison between OOTB ZSN vs. ~100h playtime ZSN.
> Why?
> Well, I`m not sure but it seems that my purple ZSN highs have "calmed down" littlebit.
> I have let them play around 90h without listening and I hear that treble between around 2.5-5kHz have "softer" timbre and not so "screetching/metallic" as before. I can now raise 6kHz EQ bar on my QNGEE X2 one notch higher without getting so "harsh" but still give some extra "sprinkle" at highs. For example I can now listen to _Twelve Foot Ninja - Outlier_ without melting my ears off from hot treble and cymbals sound not so "metallic/digital" as before.
> Maybe I`m just having placebo, idk





durwood said:


> Challenge accepted! When they arrive. I don't think we will see any changes in the freq response graph, but am open to suggestions on other measurements.





CoiL said:


> You have 2? one with ~100h playtime (with music and pink/white noise mixed) and other coming as new?
> I`m also suspecting FR graphs wont show any difference but who knows, maybe. Waiting for comparison.



That's great! I know these measurements are a pain but it would be nice to have FR graphs of the ZSN with different eartips as well—foam vs. silicone, wide vs. narrow. If you have them, comparisons with the AS10 and ZS6 (with overlays) would be even nicer.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Photo would help.  I am thinking it would not look right... especially if the connector is not clear like the bit on the shell.



None of the connectors are clear, other than the stock ZSN cables.


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> Don’t forget, you can use the ZSN with any KZ or TRN cable. It just sticks up a tiny bit.
> 
> I’ve tested the ZSN with the old KZ upgrade cables, the new TRN fldual color 8-wire braided cables, the TRN BT10, the BQEYZ stock cable, TRN silver cable, and the TRN BT20.
> 
> ...



Yes, that is what I had to do to fix my out of phase ZSN. I used an old ZS3 "straight up"-connector cable and turned one of the connectors around (to fix the out phase problem). I tried this with the angled connector cables that it came with, but the reversed side was impossible to use.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DocHoliday said:


> I've always considered the ATR one of the greatest of sleepers in the KZ pantheon just like the HDS3, EDR1 and ED3 "Perfection".
> 
> The ATR is difficult to find through a reputable seller. It can be done but stock is depleting and once they're gone.......
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-atr-in-ear-monitor.23032/reviews


It's pretty easy to find the ATR on Aliexpress, some sellers have 1,000 but I wonder if that's all the stock they have access to and not necessarily the stock in their warehouse.

It looks like the EDR1 is the only model for sale left of your fave 3.


----------



## durwood

CoiL said:


> You have 2? one with ~100h playtime (with music and pink/white noise mixed) and other coming as new?
> I`m also suspecting FR graphs wont show any difference but who knows, maybe. Waiting for comparison.


I ordered the purple and the green, both still on the slow boat somewhere. They will both be fresh.



SybilLance said:


> That's great! I know these measurements are a pain but it would be nice to have FR graphs of the ZSN with different eartips as well—foam vs. silicone, wide vs. narrow. If you have them, comparisons with the AS10 and ZS6 (with overlays) would be even nicer.



Well this just turned into a research project...didn't see that coming.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Since the latest version of the ATR has the exact same driver as the ATE, it may be easier/cheaper to find an ATE.


I'm not sure what you mean? The ATR is easier to fine then the ATE on Aliexpress. I find the ATR cheaper than the ATE as well, especially if it might have the same driver. I guess if someone wants an original ATE for some reason than that would be hard to find...


----------



## Slater (Dec 14, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure what you mean? The ATR is easier to fine then the ATE on Aliexpress. I find the ATR cheaper than the ATE as well, especially if it might have the same driver. I guess if someone wants an original ATE for some reason than that would be hard to find...



The ATE has gone through 5 revisions. The current version has a red-shelled driver.

The ATR has gone through 2 revisions. The 1st had a blue-shelled driver, and the current version has the same red-shelled driver as the ATE.

The red driver sounds better than the blue driver.

The ATR and ATE use the same shell, with the only major difference being the type of plastic used - the ATRs shell is polycarbonate (a stronger higher grade plastic).

The polycarbonate-shelled ATR with the red driver is the “best” out of all of the ATE and ATR revisions. It has the best plastic shell combined with the best sounding driver.

Unfortunately, ordering an ATR does not guarantee which version you’ll get. Out of the 2 ATR I own, both are the older blue driver version. The only way to know for sure is to have the seller look down the nozzle with a flashlight and you can see which color driver is present.

@CoiL is the resident ATE and ATR expert. I’m sure he will chime in and tell me if I missed any info


----------



## SybilLance

Slater said:


> The ATE has gone through 5 revisions. The current version has a red-shelled driver.
> 
> The ATR has gone through 2 revisions. The 1st had a blue-shelled driver, and the current version has the same red-shelled driver as the ATE.
> 
> ...


Slater I tell you that both you and Coil could write a thick book on the subject of KZ products.


----------



## 1clearhead

For those who want to know more on the KZ and CCA, brother and sister team...

Checkout my post: Post #20593


-Clear


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Out of the 2 ATR I own, both are the older blue driver version. The only way to know for sure is to have the seller look down the nozzle with a flashlight and you can see which color driver is present.


Why do you need a flashlight to see the driver? Is the screen different than it? I know they are different... but my screen is red and can be seen with the naked eye.


----------



## Sylmar

SybilLance said:


> Slater I tell you that both you and Coil could write a thick book on the subject of KZ products.



I'd buy it. 

I have to agree that I really like some of the older KZ's. I've bought a few extra ED8's a while back as these are great basscannons for some dance and electronic genres.


----------



## SybilLance

durwood said:


> I ordered the purple and the green, both still on the slow boat somewhere. They will both be fresh.
> 
> Well this just turned into a research project...didn't see that coming.



Hahaha! But Yay!


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> For those who want to know more on the KZ and CCA, brother and sister team...
> 
> Checkout my post: Post #20593
> 
> ...


Please, please, Clear if ever you post your impressions of your cyan CCA C10 there via-a-vis your ZSN (also cyan, right?) could you provide a link? It would even be nicer if you post your thoughts here, with the ZSN as reference complete with side-by-side pics. 


With the exception of the faceplate both models really could be mistaken for each other. Fraternal twins. Only that from a KZ perspective the CCA C10 is a true hybrid; the internals of the ZS10 placed in the body of the ZSN. Btw that published FR graph of the CCA C10 looks decidedly W-shaped. Hope that does not translate to a Weird sound signature. One thing for sure—it would be comfortable.

 Excited!


----------



## eggnogg (Dec 14, 2018)

A wild zs7 appears!


Spoiler: [][]


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Photo would help.  I am thinking it would not look right... especially if the connector is not clear like the bit on the shell.


Got my  cyan ZSN yesterday (thank you, postal elves!)

To try to answer your questions - a balanced KZ cable (type B) fits reasonably OK. There is a gap, but the connection is fairly secure




(The image is the cyan/aqua trio of KZ ZS10, AS10 and ZSN, which I finally managed to upload decently )
Fast first impressions of ZSN (a busy time of the year now...)  - only one hole on a back plate and very nice construction, great fit!
The sound is quite nice, close to AS10 in many aspects - real little sibling and quite amazing for under $20 Can


----------



## CoiL

durwood said:


> I ordered the purple and the green, both still on the slow boat somewhere. They will both be fresh.
> Well this just turned into a research project...didn't see that coming.


Well, don`t forget to take measurement on both OOTB and then let one play with music + pink/white noise for about 100h.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> None of the connectors are clear, other than the stock ZSN cables.



I know.  That is why I wanted to see a  photo.. to see if I could live with the look.



PhonoPhi said:


> To try to answer your questions - a balanced KZ cable (type B) fits reasonably OK. There is a gap, but the connection is fairly secure



Seeing that gap would really bother me.  If I hate how something looks, I won't use it.  Yes, I know what some of you are thinking... LOL.


----------



## CoiL

eggnogg said:


> A wild zs7 appears!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: [][]



Me want it! But wait - no dynamic driver or bass BA?


----------



## eggnogg

CoiL said:


> no dynamic driver


1DD


----------



## BrunoC

Wait... 10 drivers total means 5 per side.
On the next picture it says "10 Drivers Hybrid"...   

So it's a 1 DD + 4 BAs IEM or what?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I know.  That is why I wanted to see a  photo.. to see if I could live with the look.
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing that gap would really bother me.  If I hate how something looks, I won't use it.  Yes, I know what some of you are thinking... LOL.



The gap is really just about 1 mm and the fit with this cable is surprisingly tight (not that this cable is super though a balanced one), so there is at least some option.


----------



## CoiL

1DD (lows) + mid BA + mid-high BA + 2*high BA - sounds nice! Want this ZS7 already badly! ;P


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> *Please, please, Clear if ever you post your impressions of your cyan CCA C10 there via-a-vis your ZSN (also cyan, right?) could you provide a link? It would even be nicer if you post your thoughts here, with the ZSN as reference complete with side-by-side pics.*
> 
> 
> With the exception of the faceplate both models really could be mistaken for each other. Fraternal twins. Only that from a KZ perspective the CCA C10 is a true hybrid; the internals of the ZS10 placed in the body of the ZSN. Btw that published FR graph of the CCA C10 looks decidedly W-shaped. Hope that does not translate to a Weird sound signature. One thing for sure—it would be comfortable.
> ...


Will do! ...yes, I only ordered the Cyan/Silver (for now).


----------



## Zerohour88

eggnogg said:


> A wild zs7 appears!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: [][]




ooh, even the actual color looks so pretty too. Damn it.

sorry ZS7, I still want a full BA KZ instead of another hybrid, so its AS06 next for me.


----------



## zern_c

Ed29689 for the mids should give good detail


----------



## 1clearhead

Zerohour88 said:


> ooh, even the actual color looks so pretty too. Damn it.
> 
> sorry ZS7, I still want a full BA KZ instead of another hybrid, so its AS06 next for me.


Choices, choices!!!


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> ooh, even the actual color looks so pretty too. Damn it.
> 
> sorry ZS7, I still want a full BA KZ instead of another hybrid, so its AS06 next for me.



IMHO KZ must have that DD for the bass they want to produce especially since they always lean to the sparkly side of the spectrum, when I saw that first picture in coils post and the thing just said and showed 4 BA's I was like "Oh no, gonna be a real ear fryer"!!!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Podster said:


> IMHO KZ must have that DD for the bass they want to produce especially since they always lean to the sparkly side of the spectrum, when I saw that first picture in coils post and the thing just said and showed 4 BA's I was like "Oh no, gonna be a real ear fryer"!!!


KZ made a really great (at least to my ears) bass BA in AS10 (and BA10).


----------



## CoiL

They also made very good DD inside ZS4 and ZSN


----------



## Podster

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ made a really great (at least to my ears) bass BA in AS10 (and BA10).



Hmm, you have a point and maybe they even tried that in the ZS6/7 shell and the DD worked out better in tuning Seems there was enough room for a bass BA and they have come a long way on the interior of this shell shape since the first run ZS5's! I mean it's been a long time since they just sunk a couple BA's down in the glue


----------



## PhonoPhi

Podster said:


> Hmm, you have a point and maybe they even tried that in the ZS6/7 shell and the DD worked out better in tuning Seems there was enough room for a bass BA and they have come a long way on the interior of this shell shape since the first run ZS5's! I mean it's been a long time since they just sunk a couple BA's down in the glue


Perhaps simpler - why would they make the third 5-BA model. Plus, they have AS06 now and I really hope for AS16 or BA16 soon!


----------



## mbwilson111

Why the obsession with more and more drivers, when excellent sound can be had from one driver?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 14, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Why the obsession with more and more drivers, when excellent sound can be had from one driver?


It is simpler on a budget to make BAs working in a narrow range of frequencies. More drivers are also helpful for the soundstage.


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> Choices, choices!!!


My Year-end Resolution:

I will not anymore buy any IEMs.

Pursuant thereto, I hereby resolve that henceforth I shall endeavor to use all means necessary to enable my husband to realize he could, and should, buy them for me.

As I'm not totally manipulative, I'll grant him the ceiling of US $30.

So:

That probably leaves out the ZS7, but the AS06 falls squarely on that parameter.

Clear's discovery, the CCA C10, which may yet turn out to be buried treasure, could be had for even less.

Cheers to the year ahead!


----------



## maxxevv

SybilLance said:


> My Year-end Resolution:
> 
> I will not anymore buy any IEMs.



The year ends not much more than 2 weeks....  Next major Aliexpress sale is expected in March. So yup there is incentive for you to abstain until then. 

The ZS7 would probably fall below the US$42 mark by then too.


----------



## Podster

The ZS7 would probably fall below the US$42 mark by then too.  [/QUOTE]

I do hope so


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> IMHO KZ must have that DD for the bass they want to produce especially since they always lean to the sparkly side of the spectrum, when I saw that first picture in coils post and the thing just said and showed 4 BA's I was like "Oh no, gonna be a real ear fryer"!!!



Well, it does have 2*30095 for the highs...just like the ZS5 v2 and ZS6. The 30095s are both right in the nozzle again too, like a treble cannon.

I hope I’m proven wrong, but I have a sinking feeling how it’s going to turn out...


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Well, it does have 2*30095 for the highs...just like the ZS5 v2 and ZS6. The 30095s are both right in the nozzle again too, like a treble cannon.
> 
> I hope I’m proven wrong, but I have a sinking feeling how it’s going to turn out...



Me too. We'll have to foam mod this thing. Oh well. I've gotten good at it and even added some for the ZSNs. These are my current favorites...


----------



## eclein

The 5 BA’s in my favorite KZ BA10 are tuned with tremendous low end and clean sounding. Its available when the music calls for it but doesn’t hang on like some DD do. Don’t get me wrong I thought “there is no way KZ could tune a 5 BA iem and it keep the low end” I Was Dead WRONG!
 The BA10 is already the forgotten KZ because it looks so odd...if you own a pair and let them play in you’ll be amazed how incredibly tuned they are!
I wish there was a way to stuff the BA10 in a ZSN shell and keep the same tuning as I firmly believe you folks would love it!
 I’m just sorry its so overlooked..already....!!


----------



## Nimweth

I have the ZS4 coming soon. I will post some impressions and then write a review, there are not many ZS4 reviews at the moment.


----------



## Podster (Dec 14, 2018)

sino8r said:


> Me too. We'll have to foam mod this thing. Oh well. I've gotten good at it and even added some for the ZSNs. These are my current favorites...



Nice, of those my faves are the R1's and Queen's (They look nice in the Red & Blue) I got the gray ones and love them maybe even more than my Garden's!

@eclein , I want a pair but going to wait and see how much they drop and maybe next 11/11 Am anxiously awaiting ZS7 now just cause I need a blue KZ LOL

Hmm, since you started it let's have a current fave off providing you have at least one KZ in it but try to keep it to maximum 5 since there are only that many days in the work week


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

PhonoPhi said:


> Got my  cyan ZSN yesterday (thank you, postal elves!) The sound is quite nice, close to AS10 in many aspects - real little sibling and quite amazing for under $20 Can


But does the ZSN make you wish you didn't order the AS10?


----------



## eclein

Podster..I’m hoping they (KZ) either bring out a nicely shelled version of BA10 or bring more per side that blows them away and is comfy to wear like my TRN V80’s. 
 I also need to listen to my ZS5s more as they got lost in my shuffle when I still had the 64s.

Podster how do I tell if my 5s are original version or 2nd??


----------



## Podster

eclein said:


> Podster..I’m hoping they (KZ) either bring out a nicely shelled version of BA10 or bring more per side that blows them away and is comfy to wear like my TRN V80’s.
> I also need to listen to my ZS5s more as they got lost in my shuffle when I still had the 64s.
> 
> Podster how do I tell if my 5s are original version or 2nd??



If memory serves me you have to shine a bright light into the nozzle screen and looking from an angle see if you see the opening for one BA or if you see two little circles, anyone correct the Pod if his memory has failed him


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> If memory serves me you have to shine a bright light into the nozzle screen and looking from an angle see if you see the opening for one BA or if you see two little circles, anyone correct the Pod if his memory has failed him



Correct. You can also test the impedance at the 2-pin socket.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Correct. You can also test the impedance at the 2-pin socket.



Granted should one have testing equipment! Naked eye is pretty fast if not


----------



## loomisjohnson

SybilLance said:


> My Year-end Resolution:
> 
> I will not anymore buy any IEMs.
> 
> ...


i'm done buying, too--we should have a contest to see who can refrain the longest, sorta like that seinfeld episode.


----------



## Slater (Dec 14, 2018)

loomisjohnson said:


> i'm done buying, too--we should have a contest to see who can refrain the longest, sorta like that seinfeld episode.



Panda would be out of the running faster than Kramer was lol


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Panda would be out of the running faster than Kramer was lol



LOL, I'm not even going to try


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 14, 2018)

Podster said:


> LOL, I'm not even going to try



+1

Absolutely no chance with the release of the ZS7, AS06 and the interesting cro of CCA in-ears! 

Plus, you know that BQEYZ and TRN must have more stuff on the drawing board.

$300 should cover a decent collection and a few cables for the first 3 or 4 months of 2019.
Consider a $300 budget over the last few months (AS10-$65, ZSN x 2-$35, Tin T2-$50, BQEYZ BQ3 & KC2- $100 and a couple of nice aftermarket cables = $300).

Even if you step it up to $500 and pick up Tenhz', BGVP's or iBasso's it's still a ton of fun for a relatively inexpensive hobby compared to golf, boating or......

It's only money, right?


Even if that sounds ridiculous to some, remember that this is still a relatively inexpensive hobby if you pick and choose wisely.


----------



## scottySK

ZS7 is available for purchase now on AliExpress it seems


----------



## groucho69

Since I gave up buying IEMs I have 3 new HP and 3 new buds....


----------



## Podster (Dec 14, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> +1
> 
> Absolutely no chance with the release of the ZS7, AS06 and the interesting cro of CCA in-ears!
> 
> ...



Dang you Doc, you have inspired me with a little close up work myself! Of course this is the missing man formation (Red ones are at home right now) That $300 estimate cracks me up as I have a pending cart with about $469 in right now





@groucho69 , if they don't get you with one they get you with another LOL, last minute correction on that cart it's $473.35 to be exact


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> But does the ZSN make you wish you didn't order the AS10?


No.
Going from AS10 to ZSN is quite natural, ZSN is a bit less refined but quite similar and nice for my ears (I like ZSN treble). So if ZSN would be my only IEM - I could be happy.
Going back from ZSN to AS10 helps to appreciate the resolution and BA bass though!
AS10 works really great for me better than anything I had.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 15, 2018)

Gr





Podster said:


> Dang you Doc, you have inspired me with a little close up work myself! Of course this is the missing man formation (Red ones are at home right now) That $300 estimate cracks me up as I have a pending cart with about $469 in right now
> 
> 
> 
> @groucho69 , if they don't get you with one they get you with another LOL, last minute correction on that cart it's $473.35 to be exact


Great collection, Pod...

,...I'm still baffled by KZ's inclusion of the awful cables with such a great IEM.

I know that the plan is to sell more upgrade cables and yes, $32 is a great deal (ZS6) but come on KZ.



 


There is only one way to right the wrong:



 

$50+/- would still be a great deal even if you consider the advances in Chi-Fi and the ever-dropping prices; prices can only fall so far. TBH, we've all been a bit spoiled over the past few years and....

...blah, blah, blah......get out that credit card and and have some fun!

$475 sounds about right, Pod!


----------



## Podster (Dec 14, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Gr
> Great collection, Pod...
> 
> ,...I'm still baffled by KZ's inclusion of the awful cables with such a great IEM.
> ...



I'm just disappointed now that KZ does not use the .78 pin as I've got several 8 and soon to be 16 core cables that I'd like to try on them but yes even the new cable on the ZSN is a big step up for them and yes I'd sure pay $50 for the ZS7 if I knew they would have that cable on them


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 14, 2018)

eclein said:


> The BA10 is already the forgotten KZ because it looks so odd.


The BA10 looks pretty sexy to me. Maybe that's because I also look odd. Odd can be sexy! Well, that's what I say to myself every morning in the mirror.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 14, 2018)

delete


----------



## blur.png

oddly enough i like the looks of the BA10, its just the price and lack of impressions that are putting me off, not to mention some ppl said that the cheaper AS10 sounds better than it (or warmer sounding)

to BA10 owners, how do you describe the sound like against the ZSN, ZS6 and the V80 ? it can just be one of them, since im curious


----------



## Zerohour88

I do wonder on the ZS7 though, seems its not up on the KZ official channels (store and weibo)

probably another ED16 situation brewing? They did just release the AS06 (just like back then when they released the ZSR)

This is getting weird.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

sino8r said:


> Too many of my KZs sound similar and it's getting rather redundant.


For those who haven't heard a lot of KZ's let us know which ones you think sound similar. Thanks.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 15, 2018)

crabdog said:


> For less than $20 the KZ ZS4 is a must-have. Enjoy
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zs4-review/


Audionab sure doesn't think so. 

You say the ZS4 cable is the best one that KZ has made but I've heard the same thing about the purple ZSN copper cable.


----------



## WilliamCruz

Any upgrade to the KZ HDS3?, looking for a non over ear design.


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> My Year-end Resolution:
> 
> I will not anymore buy any IEMs.
> 
> ...


Cheers! 
...But, In my own personal experience, here's to going broke.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 15, 2018)

blur.png said:


> oddly enough i like the looks of the BA10, its just the price and lack of impressions that are putting me off, not to mention some ppl said that the cheaper AS10 sounds better than it (or warmer sounding)
> 
> to BA10 owners, how do you describe the sound like against the ZSN, ZS6 and the V80 ? it can just be one of them, since im curious



BA10 vs ZS6

Completely different presentations:
BA10 - instruments positioned in a linear fashion from left to right with good width (soundstage).
ZS6 - the midrange is not forward but the instruments are set in a semi-cercle around the vocalist/featured instrument. 

BA10 - richer/more dense midrange with less micro-detail in the upper-treble and mid-treble.
ZS6 - more micro-detail in the lower-treble, more finesse on instrument positioning which facilitates and accentuates layering 

The bass  (mid-bass & sub-bass) are very different; can't pick which one is better though. BA10's is full-bodied and slightly dry but clean, ZS6's is quick and slightly wet with great impact.

Again, very different but great job on both.



Zerohour88 said:


> I do wonder on the ZS7 though, seems its not up on the KZ official channels (store and weibo)
> 
> probably another ED16 situation brewing? They did just release the AS06 (just like back then when they released the ZSR)
> 
> This is getting weird.



Typical for KZ; sellers often have new models before the KZ Official Store lists them. Sometimes there'll even be exclusive carriers for a given period of time (ES3 & GearBest last year).



WilliamCruz said:


> Any upgrade to the KZ HDS3?, looking for a non over ear design.



According to these FR graphs the closest, for a KZ, seems to be the AS10 but you'll have to check with someone who owns both. I do not.

AntDroid AS10 FR graph:



 

HeadFlux HDS3 FR graph:


 

Completely different rigs/set-ups so these graphs aren't gospel, just noteworthy. 

To my ears the HDS3 has a somewhat holographic presentation. I've not heard anyone describe the AS10 that way so ask around first. The BA10 is open and airy with more linear positioning. The ZS6 soundstage is more akin to the HDS3. 

Hard to go back to its lower resolution but the HDS3 is an old skool favorite of mine. I have three sets and won't be parting with any of them. Well, perhaps one set if someone had an irresistible out-of-production and rare in-ear to swap (Klipsch S4 Reference, original Tennmak Piano, Tennmak C6 Turbo, original SoundMAGIC PL30 , etc.).

At any rate, hope this was helpful.


----------



## Conest

Sylmar said:


> I'd buy it.
> 
> I have to agree that I really like some of the older KZ's. I've bought a few extra ED8's a while back as these are great basscannons for some dance and electronic genres.


Any other KZ basscannons out there ?
Cant find ED8..


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 15, 2018)

For the KZ ZS10 (left PIC) and the CCA C10 (right PIC), the *cross-over board* (frequency dividing board) and *the placement of BA and driver* is going to be the "key" for the "better sound signature"! 

I'm sure, even the FR Frequency Graph should be different to each other and the drivers might be different. ...Can't wait for my Cyan C10 to get here!
 

-Clear


----------



## crabdog

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Audionab sure doesn't think so.
> 
> You say the ZS4 cable is the best one that KZ has made but I've heard the same thing about the purple ZSN copper cable.


The ZSN cable is definitely a step up from previous versions because KZ removed the pesky memory wire. But the Y-split is still in a stupid position halfway down the cable and it easily becomes a tangled mess.


----------



## LUCILLE667

Glad to see KZ is still keeping that useless third screw on the ZS7.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

LUCILLE667 said:


> Glad to see KZ is still keeping that useless third screw on the ZS7.


They wanted to make it as screwy looking as possible.


----------



## dondonut (Dec 15, 2018)

Received the ZSN a dew days ago, didn't have time for extended listening but KZ nailed it. These things are, like the ZST, very comfy to my ears. The sound these produce for the price is insane. I dig the design so much; I recall a week or so before 11/11, when the ZSN hype train hadn't really started rolling yet, I considered ordering this solely for the design. Value-wise if you look at the whole package I'd imagine nothing really comes close.

Comparing the ZSN to my BQ3 they sound quite similar. The ZSN to my ears, has ever so slightly more detail retrieval but also sounds a bit harsher as a result. Especially noticable is that mids are more forward, cymbals and claps more 'in your face'. The BQ3 sounds a bit more chilled out in this regard, sound a bit more refined to me. To my ears, the BQ3 show more coherency over the whole frequency spectrum, especially the lower to mid side. However.. the BQ3 costs at least twice as much.

If I had to choose only one and toss the other, I'd probably go with the BQ3. However, I would also wholeheartedly recommend the ZSN, especially if you're on a budget. I feel that audio gear has come to a point where diminishing returns on investment are becoming increasingly noticable. I know I'm gonna stop purchasing IEMs for a while and might start saving up for a nice dap or dac/amp combi I can hook up to my desktop and phone. That should be a bigger step up in SQ then most decently affordable iems/headphones could be.


----------



## 1clearhead

OK, so I finally received notice that I will receive the CCA C10 in China on Sunday! Finally!!! ...Which, by the way in other countries outside of China would be Saturday.

Going to party with the brother and sister, KZ ZSN and CCA C10, and do some comparisons! ...Party!!!


----------



## Deveraux

Is it only me or what? Received the ZSN and it sounds trash compared to my ZS5v1. Everything else is amazing though from the looks to the fit and comfort.

The difference is like going from 320kbps to 128kbps. EXACLTY like this.

And yeah my ES4 and ED16 sounds better too.

Should I get a replacement?


----------



## TechnoidFR

Maybe 1/2h burn in...


----------



## Deveraux

TechnoidFR said:


> Maybe 1/2h burn in...


I did way more


----------



## PhonoPhi

TechnoidFR said:


> Maybe 1/2h burn in...


2 hours made a very noticeable difference in subduing the coarseness.


----------



## Sylmar (Dec 15, 2018)

Conest said:


> Any other KZ basscannons out there ?
> Cant find ED8..



I don't know a KZ alternative but this forum used to have a thread about bass-heavy IEM's. You might find some alternatives there.

By the way, just reminded myself that the KZ ED9 with golden filters has also a lot of bass.


----------



## mbwilson111

Deveraux said:


> Is it only me or what? Received the ZSN and it sounds trash compared to my ZS5v1. Everything else is amazing though from the looks to the fit and comfort.
> 
> The difference is like going from 320kbps to 128kbps. EXACLTY like this.
> 
> ...



Are you sure they are not out of phase?


----------



## Deveraux

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you sure they are not out of phase?



Definitely not out of phase. 

Quality difference is exactly like how you would go from a higher bit rate audio to something like 128kbps.


----------



## Luxed (Dec 15, 2018)

Deveraux said:


> Definitely not out of phase.
> 
> Quality difference is exactly like how you would go from a higher bit rate audio to something like 128kbps.


Do they sound muffled and lack in detail?
Maybe test another cable? I really doubt it could make that much of a difference though :/
They could be defective as we've seen some QC issues pop up for the ZSN in this thread (aka the "hole" situation)


----------



## PhonoPhi

Deveraux said:


> Definitely not out of phase.
> 
> Quality difference is exactly like how you would go from a higher bit rate audio to something like 128kbps.


What do you compare ZSN with, DD-only IEM?


----------



## 1clearhead

Deveraux said:


> Is it only me or what? Received the ZSN and it sounds trash compared to my ZS5v1. Everything else is amazing though from the looks to the fit and comfort.
> 
> The difference is like going from 320kbps to 128kbps. EXACLTY like this.
> 
> ...


That sounds to me like a non-functioning BA armature(s)...probably defective! 
I would strongly advice you to replace them. Several years back, I experienced this same situation, twice! -Not a good feeling at all.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Good info that I had

Zs7 has same DD than zs10 !


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Deveraux said:


> Is it only me or what? Received the ZSN and it sounds trash compared to my ZS5v1.
> 
> The difference is like going from 320kbps to 128kbps. EXACLTY like this.
> 
> And yeah my ES4 and ED16 sounds better too.


I hope it's not true!  But it sounds like you got a bad pair. Who did you order it from? Mine are coming in the next 2-4 weeks (hopefully... Canada Post) so I'll let you know what I think compared to the ES4/ED16.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> Maybe 1/2h burn in...


My burn in lasts a couple years. No joke. I know it's too long but it's addicting looking at my cute headphones sitting on a dresser enjoying some good music.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 15, 2018)

dondonut said:


> Received the ZSN a dew days ago, didn't have time for extended listening but KZ nailed it. These things are, like the ZST, very comfy to my ears. The sound these produce for the price is insane. I dig the design so much; I considered ordering this solely for the design. Value-wise if you look at the whole package I'd imagine nothing really comes close.
> 
> Comparing the ZSN to my BQ3 they sound quite similar. The ZSN to my ears, has ever so slightly more detail retrieval but also sounds a bit harsher as a result. Especially noticable is that mids are more forward, cymbals and claps more 'in your face'. The BQ3 sounds a bit more chilled out in this regard, sound a bit more refined to me. To my ears, the BQ3 show more coherency over the whole frequency spectrum, especially the lower to mid side. However.. the BQ3 costs at least twice as much.
> 
> If I had to choose only one and toss the other, I'd probably go with the BQ3.


Did you compare the sound quality when both ZSN and BQ3 are using the TRN cable? It's not a fair review if they weren't.


----------



## ShakyJake

Deveraux said:


> Is it only me or what? Received the ZSN and it sounds trash compared to my ZS5v1. Everything else is amazing though from the looks to the fit and comfort.
> 
> The difference is like going from 320kbps to 128kbps. EXACLTY like this.
> 
> ...


Check to see if is wired "out of phase". Mine was, and I was initially a bit disappointed in it. Here is a check:

https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## Moys (Dec 15, 2018)

Hi, so I've been watching this thread for a while, and I want to finally get myself an iem from KZ!

It's my first time actually getting higher grade iem than what you get from phones and such, so I want to find the perfect one, suiting my needs and at the same time being a good enough all-rounder to enjoy what a good iem sounds like.
My budget is 50€, so I can pretty much buy any iem Kz currently offers, the question is wich one?

I'm looking for an immersive and deep sound, that would submerge me into the music i'm listening to. I'm not really a bass head, but I listen to pretty much any genre, mainly classical ( I would rather use my headphones for that, but it's still a genre I'll listen to quite a bit ), rock, jpop, dance, funk and a lot of instrumentals.

The point I want it to emphasize are sound clarity, details and a little treble but not too harsh or sibilant. I don't care that much about how wide is the soundstage, but I want the sound imaging and instrument separation to be top-notch ( like being surrounded by the instruments and voices ). I guess, since I want an immersive sound, it has to be a "in your face" and kind of intimate sounding iem.

I initially planned to get the Zs 5, but the newer version seemed to be a let-down, then the Zs6, but sibilance issues, now I'm planning to get the AS10, is it the right one for me? I've heard of new products coming out soon, should I wait for those?

I hope you guys can help me, it's kind of hard to keep up with every product coming out.

Edit: Also I've got a 2.5 balanced output from my dac/amp, can I use it with Kz iems? Do I need a specific cable, if so, which one ?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 15, 2018)

I just bought a HIFIMAN Megamini DAP on Amazon for $62USD. The price changed from $60USD today on E-Bay to $260USD with shipping but Amazon's price stayed the same. Has anyone used this DAP with KZ's? Any favorite pairings?


----------



## Slater (Dec 15, 2018)

Moys said:


> Hi, so I've been watching this thread for a while, and I want to finally get myself an iem from KZ!
> 
> It's my first time actually getting higher grade iem than what you get from phones and such, so I want to find the perfect one, suiting my needs and at the same time being a good enough all-rounder to enjoy what a good iem sounds like.
> My budget is 50€, so I can pretty much buy any iem Kz currently offers, the question is wich one?
> ...



I’d go with a TinAudio T2, since you listen to classical. The regular T2, not the Pro. 

It’s a perfect all-rounder. It’s a lot of IEM for the money. Right in your budget range, metal shell, mmcx cables, can be worn up or down, can be driven by pretty much any source.

KZs are going to be too v shaped IMO.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

ShakyJake said:


> Check to see if is wired "out of phase". Mine was, and I was initially a bit disappointed in it. Here is a check:
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php



Oh snap, thank you for sharing this. It turns out mine are out of phase too (at least I think they are. The third test's out of phase example sounds more in my head, so...). But what exactly do they mean by "flipping the cable" to fix the problem?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Moys said:


> Hi, so I've been watching this thread for a while, and I want to finally get myself an iem from KZ!
> 
> It's my first time actually getting higher grade iem than what you get from phones and such, so I want to find the perfect one, suiting my needs and at the same time being a good enough all-rounder to enjoy what a good iem sounds like.
> My budget is 50€, so I can pretty much buy any iem Kz currently offers, the question is wich one?
> ...



AS10 sounds like it would be very suitable. Like Slater said, the Tin T2 would be a good alternative.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 15, 2018)

SomeEntityThing said:


> Oh snap, thank you for sharing this. It turns out mine are out of phase too (at least I think they are. The third test's out of phase example sounds more in my head, so...). But what exactly do they mean by "flipping the cable" to fix the problem?



Flipping the cable means turning the connectors 180 degrees so the pins are reversed into the connector/IEM. This 'flips' the positive and negative pins to correct the phase without having to open up the IEM and resolder the connections.


Just ordered a pair of Cyan ZSN and the C-paragraph BT cable to go with them. Now the wait...


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 15, 2018)

Moys said:


> Hi, so I've been watching this thread for a while, and I want to finally get myself an iem from KZ!
> 
> It's my first time actually getting higher grade iem than what you get from phones and such, so I want to find the perfect one, suiting my needs and at the same time being a good enough all-rounder to enjoy what a good iem sounds like.
> My budget is 50€, so I can pretty much buy any iem Kz currently offers, the question is wich one?
> ...


I second that AS10 can work nicely. I listen to classical music with it, and it is great.
The only issue is that with some sources (e.g. Samsung S9) there can be some background noise due to high sensitivity of AS10.


----------



## CoiL

mbwilson111 said:


> Why the obsession with more and more drivers, when excellent sound can be had from one driver?


Yeap! KZ should release 1-DD IEM with similar tuning/SQ at low-end as ZS4/ZSN DD has. Would buy it for sure.


crabdog said:


> The ZSN cable is definitely a step up from previous versions *because KZ removed the pesky memory wire.* But the Y-split is still in a stupid position halfway down the cable and it easily becomes a tangled mess.


Hey! Not everyone dislikes memory wire! I totally miss it with ZSN as that PVC without mem-wire wont stay behind my ears and needs "re-shaping" with heat-gun to hold shape I want.



Deveraux said:


> Is it only me or what? Received the ZSN and it sounds trash compared to my ZS5v1. Everything else is amazing though from the looks to the fit and comfort.
> The difference is like going from 320kbps to 128kbps. EXACLTY like this.
> And yeah my ES4 and ED16 sounds better too.
> Should I get a replacement?


Just to be sure - have You tried different 2-pin cable (that is in-phase for sure)? Maybe Your ZSN in out-of-phase wired internally?
I do hope You didn`t get dud-BA unit as resoldering 2-pin connector (or just flipping around connector in shell) would be quite easy fix.
Anyway, while I still slightly prefer my properly amped ZS5v1 over ZSN, I do not find ZSN "downgrading" sound such way You do.


TechnoidFR said:


> Good info that I had
> Zs7 has same DD than zs10 !


Where did You get that info? 
I actually don`t hope it having same DD as ZS10. If it really has same DD, then I will probably skip ZS7. ZS4/ZSN DD are best KZ has put out so far and IMHO can have great potential in hybrid setups.


----------



## Makahl

It didn't get much attention here but KZ has released a single-DD version of ZS4 aka ZS3E.


----------



## CoiL

Maybe I will get ZS3E as I wish another pair of ZS4-type shells but in black, so that I can make modded IEM with red-R and black-L channels ;P


----------



## Slater (Dec 15, 2018)

assassin10000 said:


> Flipping the cable means turning the connectors 180 degrees so the pins are reversed into the connector/IEM. This 'flips' the positive and negative pins to correct the phase without having to open up the IEM and resolder the connections.
> 
> 
> Just ordered a pair of Cyan ZSN and the C-paragraph BT cable to go with them. Now the wait...



Note it’s only 1 side though (right OR left it doesn’t matter). If you flip both sides (right AND left), you’ll put the whole thing back out of phase again lol

Also, the ZSN would be easy to fix internally. On ONE ZSN (left OR right), just remove the screws on the back, open it up, remove the 2 screws holding down the 2-pin jack, flip it 180 degrees, and put everything back together again.


----------



## CoiL

@Slater am I missing something or... ? Shouldn`t both sides be checked? I thought IEM can be out of phase from both sides not only one as connection point to series/parallel of drivers in one side doesn`t affect other side and make it "flip" around (physically impossible).


----------



## Slater (Dec 15, 2018)

CoiL said:


> @Slater am I missing something or... ? Shouldn`t both sides be checked? I thought IEM can be out of phase from both sides not only one as connection point to series/parallel of drivers in one side doesn`t affect other side and make it "flip" around (physically impossible).



Well, yes you are right. In multi driver IEMs, there could be many drivers wired out of phase. Flipping a cable or jack 180 degrees isn’t going to help with that.

That’s the danger with these multi driver IEMs. People are enamored with “more is better” IEMs, but it’s entirely possible to receive a 10 driver IEM with 1 driver wired out of phase in the left and 3 wired out of phase in the right. Every driver you add (over a single driver) is 1 more driver that can be screwed up.

The average person may not even be able to detect such a small miswiring, much less possess the skill and tools to fix it.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Well, yes you are right. In multi driver IEMs, there could be many drivers wired out of phase. Flipping a cable or jack 180 degrees isn’t going to help with that.
> 
> That’s the danger with these multi driver IEMs. People are enamored with “more is better” IEMs, but it’s entirely possible to receive a 10 driver IEM with 1 driver wired out of phase in the left and 3 wired out of phase in the right. Every driver you add (over a single driver) is 1 more driver that can be screwed up.
> 
> The average person may not even be able to detect such a small miswiring, much less possess the skill and tools to fix it.


Yes, that too but... I didn`t mean that.


Slater said:


> Note it’s only 1 side though (right OR left it doesn’t matter). *If you flip both sides (right AND left), you’ll put the whole thing back out of phase again lol*


That one doesn`t make sense to me as only one side can be out of phase OR both sides can be out of phase. 
In case of both sides being phased-out-wiring - flipping both cables 180' will fix it. 
In case of only one side phased-out wiring - flipping both cables will make it still out of phase. 
Am I losing my mind? I`m under pills atm due to toothache (I HATE IT!).


----------



## Moys

Thanks for the quick replies!



Slater said:


> I’d go with a TinAudio T2, since you listen to classical. The regular T2, not the Pro.
> 
> It’s a perfect all-rounder. It’s a lot of IEM for the money. Right in your budget range, metal shell, mmcx cables, can be worn up or down, can be driven by pretty much any source.
> 
> KZs are going to be too v shaped IMO.



I actually was interested into that iem before setting up on Kz, but it was a little too expensive at the time. It does indeed fit my criteria pretty well, though I like the Kz design more. Doing great with classical is pretty much a bonus, as I said I would rather use my various headphones to listen to that, and every other point I mentionned would take priority over it. 
Considering that, and the fact that i can only purchase the t2 pro on the site I'm using to purchase audio, how would the t2 pro compare to the as10? You said that the later could be too v-shaped, but I'm actually affraid of the t2 being too airy and maybe boring ( I don't want to find another k702 that I'm already using ). The as10 looks to me like a clear and detailed iem that keeps a musical and warm sound, which is what I might be looking for.
I'm wondering though if both are different ( and complementary ) enough to consider getting both in the future.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 15, 2018)

Slater said:


> Note it’s only 1 side though (right OR left it doesn’t matter). If you flip both sides (right AND left), you’ll put the whole thing back out of phase again lol
> 
> Also, the ZSN would be easy to fix internally. On ONE ZSN (left OR right), just remove the screws on the back, open it up, remove the 2 screws holding down the 2-pin jack, flip it 180 degrees, and put everything back together again.



Not quite. If only one side is out of phase with the other, flipping only one will match the 'stereo' phase of left and right channels. It still may not put the IEM's in phase with your source if you flip the wrong side.

Of course if both sides are out of phase with the source to start with, flipping only one side will only get you halfway there.




CoiL said:


> That one doesn`t make sense to me as only one side can be out of phase OR both sides can be out of phase.
> In case of both sides being phased-out-wiring - flipping both cables 180' will fix it.
> In case of only one side phased-out wiring - flipping both cables will make it still out of phase.
> Am I losing my mind? I`m under pills atm due to toothache (I HATE IT!).



Not loosing your mind.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 15, 2018)

That`s what I thought. I`m still sober! ;D

Edit:

OMG! It`s my 5000th post in head-fi! O_o I`m addicted to head-fi. Need more pills


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> If only one side is out of phase with the other, flipping only one will match the 'stereo' phase of left and right channels.



Correct. That’s what I was talking about.


----------



## eclein

Hey...congrats on 5000 posts!! Hey do you guys know how to cure stuttering Bluetooth?
When I use Spotify on my android phone or ipad I get intermittent stuttering and it won’t go away no matter how many background apps, location services etc I turn off. Its fine for awhile then starts up again...what does it any idea??
HELP!
Ty
ed


----------



## assassin10000

eclein said:


> Hey...congrats on 5000 posts!! Hey do you guys know how to cure stuttering Bluetooth?
> When I use Spotify on my android phone or ipad I get intermittent stuttering and it won’t go away no matter how many background apps, location services etc I turn off. Its fine for awhile then starts up again...what does it any idea??
> HELP!
> Ty
> ed



Depends on why it's stuttering. Not just the devices may be the problem, could be the internet connection or it may even be related to the Spotify server/stream itself.


----------



## Deveraux

Luxed said:


> Do they sound muffled and lack in detail?
> Maybe test another cable? I really doubt it could make that much of a difference though :/
> They could be defective as we've seen some QC issues pop up for the ZSN in this thread (aka the "hole" situation)



I guess yeah there’s a lack in details. But it’s exactly like how I described above. Tried it with a TRN cable too :/



1clearhead said:


> That sounds to me like a non-functioning BA armature(s)...probably defective!
> I would strongly advice you to replace them. Several years back, I experienced this same situation, twice! -Not a good feeling at all.



Wow, I got these almost a month back and I don’t know if they’ll allow me a refund now. I’ll try though. 



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I hope it's not true!  But it sounds like you got a bad pair. Who did you order it from? Mine are coming in the next 2-4 weeks (hopefully... Canada Post) so I'll let you know what I think compared to the ES4/ED16.



Got it from GearBest.



ShakyJake said:


> Check to see if is wired "out of phase". Mine was, and I was initially a bit disappointed in it. Here is a check:
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php



It’s definitely not out of phase. Just checked too.



CoiL said:


> Just to be sure - have You tried different 2-pin cable (that is in-phase for sure)? Maybe Your ZSN in out-of-phase wired internally?
> I do hope You didn`t get dud-BA unit as resoldering 2-pin connector (or just flipping around connector in shell) would be quite easy fix.
> Anyway, while I still slightly prefer my properly amped ZS5v1 over ZSN, I do not find ZSN "downgrading" sound such way You do.



I have tried it with the TRN silver cable that I use with my ZS5 too. No noticeable sound difference.


----------



## TechnoidFR

CoiL said:


> Where did You get that info?
> I actually don`t hope it having same DD as ZS10. If it really has same DD, then I will probably skip ZS7. ZS4/ZSN DD are best KZ has put out so far and IMHO can have great potential in hybrid setups.



**** seller
After we have metal house, different tuning.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 16, 2018)

[Time Traveller from 2016]

I bought the ZS3 a couple years ago and I'm just listening to them now. Call me a late bloomer. They have been burning in the whole time. I was into earbuds for a while (waste of time/money) and got distracted from IEM's (my true purpose in audio).

They sing pretty dang good in their own unique way. I love the fit as It's like they're having sex with my ears. The vocals seem a bit cold with the stock cable but the sound is very holographic/3D like. They are light years ahead of the ATR. The sound is bright and may not be good for long sessions. ATR is way better for that with their warm and seductive sound but the ZS3 is way more dynamic and enjoyable to listen to like a real live band. They sound narrow on bad recordings but wide on good ones. I wouldn't say these guys are the best performers. More songs sound average than good. I don't think they're full competenty and I'm surprised people loved them so much back in the day. I prefer the ATR for it's calm warm loving vibe/sound.

I  look forward to the ZS4. The fit/sound signature of the ZS3 is mind blowing.


----------



## CoiL

TechnoidFR said:


> **** seller
> After we have metal house, different tuning.


ZS7 has plastic+resin housing+aluminium backplate as far as I know. Not sure though. Anyway, its shell shouldn`t contribute much into sound with this kind of implementation, imo.
What comes to info about sellers - especially yinjoo, which should be banned from head-fi - never trust that info!


----------



## Mybutthurts

Moys said:


> Thanks for the quick replies!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AS10 is the one to go for, if you after a KZ iem. Musical and warm as you like.
Loving it on classical music, played on my Fiio dap.


----------



## WapeR

Hi!

I'm looking for new IEMs and I already own the KZ ZS3 (wich sounds great for me for that cheap price) but I want to upgrade and I don't know what I could buy. I'm looking for great IEMs for trap, rock and/or drum&bass.
What is the best KZ for that kind of music? I want to espend <$30


----------



## blur.png (Dec 16, 2018)

WapeR said:


> Hi!
> 
> I'm looking for new IEMs and I already own the KZ ZS3 (wich sounds great for me for that cheap price) but I want to upgrade and I don't know what I could buy. I'm looking for great IEMs for trap, rock and/or drum&bass.
> What is the best KZ for that kind of music? I want to espend <$30



if you like warmer sound & intimate feeling the ES4 looks good
if you like forward sounding & vocal centric iem, the ZSN looks good (though might be a bit overdone on some edm tracks)

then again this is my opinion, someone else might have better opinions, though if you dont mind non-kz, the V80 seems to be another option, since the bass isnt shy at all & tracks sound crisp though its like 2x the price of either the es4/zsn


----------



## Leo-rume

CoiL said:


> Maybe I will get ZS3E as I wish another pair of ZS4-type shells but in black, so that I can make modded IEM with red-R and black-L channels ;P



The ZS3E is not available in black, only red. I have one on the way


----------



## jeromeaparis

Moys said:


> Hi, so I've been watching this thread for a while, and I want to finally get myself an iem from KZ!
> 
> It's my first time actually getting higher grade iem than what you get from phones and such, so I want to find the perfect one, suiting my needs and at the same time being a good enough all-rounder to enjoy what a good iem sounds like.
> My budget is 50€, so I can pretty much buy any iem Kz currently offers, the question is wich one?
> ...



Yes, I think that my AS10 is better than my ZS6, highs are softer and better overall sound & details.
I do use them and ZSN only with 2.5 balanced cable on my dap Pioneer XDP-30R
I use 2 kind of 2.5 cables:
The KZ silver plated 2.5 balanced cable (thin & silver color) cost= 7 $, that sounds well on ZSN & ED16
The TRN 8 core balanced 2.5mm cable (bigger, the black & silver color) cost= 8$, that sounds well on AS10 and ZS6, better sounding than the KZ 2.5
note I do have too the trn yellow & silver color cable and it sounds too bright, even with the ES4

you'll find them easily on Aliexpress as:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/TRN-MMCX-2Pin-Connecteur-3-5-2-5-quilibr-8-Core-Cuivre-Argent-Mixte-C-ble/32945443691.html

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3-5mm-2-5mm-quilibr-e-Argent-Plaqu-Mise-Niveau-C-ble-KZ-2pin-Argent/32896414780.html









 .


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## WapeR (Dec 16, 2018)

blur.png said:


> if you like warmer sound & intimate feeling the ES4 looks good
> if you like forward sounding & vocal centric iem, the ZSN looks good (though might be a bit overdone on some edm tracks)
> 
> then again this is my opinion, someone else might have better opinions, though if you dont mind non-kz, the V80 seems to be another option, since the bass isnt shy at all & tracks sound crisp though its like 2x the price of either the es4/zsn



Thanks for your fast response.
I think I prefer a V shape sound, buy I don't care if the IEMs are all-terrain, and play a little with the equalizer. I want good IEM for a long time and try to hear things I never heard before with my actual ear/headphones.
I was thinking in the latest KZ ZS10 but if ES4 or ZSN are good enough for me, I have no problem buying them. Also maybe I need a better cable and tips

EDIT: I'll use iPhone Xs Max as source and I prefer BT module for most of the time


----------



## darmanastartes

jeromeaparis said:


> Yes, I think that my AS10 is better than my ZS6, highs are softer and better overall sound & details.
> I do use them and ZSN only with 2.5 balanced cable on my dap Pioneer XDP-30R
> I use 2 kind of 2.5 cables:
> The KZ silver plated 2.5 balanced cable (thin & silver color) cost= 7 $, that sounds well on ZSN & ED16
> ...


Where did you get those triple flange eartips from?


----------



## Nimweth

blur.png said:


> if you like warmer sound & intimate feeling the ES4 looks good
> if you like forward sounding & vocal centric iem, the ZSN looks good (though might be a bit overdone on some edm tracks)
> 
> then again this is my opinion, someone else might have better opinions, though if you dont mind non-kz, the V80 seems to be another option, since the bass isnt shy at all & tracks sound crisp though its like 2x the price of either the es4/zsn


I would agree with that, the V80 is an excellent IEM with a fairly neutral sound and superb bass. It's better than any KZ model I have tried, including the ES3, ZST, ZS10. It's mildly V shaped and very well made.


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## jeromeaparis (Dec 16, 2018)

darmanastartes said:


> Where did you get those triple flange eartips from?


I baught them on ebay about 4 years ago and they are discontinued.They are long and
inside diameter is large, about 3.5mm. Some people do not like they sit deeper inside the ear canal.
They sound very good on some KZ earphones, other KZ phones sound better with starlines (or even whirl for ES4 with stock cable)


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## blur.png (Dec 16, 2018)

WapeR said:


> Thanks for your fast response.
> I think I prefer a V shape sound, buy I don't care if the IEMs are all-terrain, and play a little with the equalizer. I want good IEM for a long time and try to hear things I never heard before with my actual ear/headphones.
> I was thinking in the latest KZ ZS10 but if ES4 or ZSN are good enough for me, I have no problem buying them. Also maybe I need a better cable and tips
> 
> EDIT: I'll use iPhone Xs Max as source and I prefer BT module for most of the time



if you like to hear everything that you never heard with the  ZS3 id say go with the trn V80, its non-kz but its a very good iem that is very sensitive & detailed with its stock cable, its a bit expensive compared to the es4 & zsn but its worth it, the iem feels like it adjust itself to the music, though if you're used to v-shaped it will sound weird when you use it for the first time.

now im not sure if this applies to everyone but the es4 gives me a bit of asmr feeling the first month im using it, because some music sounds so close/intimate or playing just behind me that it makes me feel weirdly good, id say its a "relaxing" iem to listen, compared to the zsn at least, it sounds more balanced & laid back making all sounds feel on the same level apart from a small treble boost.

i need some time to appreciate the zsn because im not a huge fan of forward signature, but now that it has settled, its a very vocal focused iem, makes you feel intimate to the singer or the lead instrument though high volume listening might hurt your ears a bit

and since you prefer to use a BT module, i recommend get the trn bt20 module,its expensive but its also TWS & works well for either kz or trn models (or anything with 2x0.75mm pin)


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## pashhtk27 (Dec 16, 2018)

I bought a few pairs of starline tips and they are slightly different from the original ones (that came with older KZs like ZS3)
The new tips are darker and made of the more common silicone material, while the originals have a lighter grey color and are slightly softer.
The shape, size, design, bore size, everything else is the same.

I haven't tested them but they sound sound the same.

I remember a discussion about the difference in tips sometime ago, so maybe this will help.


----------



## 1clearhead

Checkout my first impressions of the new CCA C10 from the KZ family!
 Post #20678

-Clear


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> Checkout my first impressions of the new CCA C10 from the KZ family!
> Post #20678


Kind of looks a bit ugly/cheap compared to ZSN but hey if it sounds better... it's worth it!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Nimweth said:


> I would agree with that, the V80 is an excellent IEM. It's better than any KZ model I have tried, including the ES3, ZST, ZS10.


I don't like to hear this.  Is the ZS10 the only newest KZ you've heard? Those others are old. I think I'm done with KZ for a while. Still waiting for ZSNx2, AS10, ZS10, ZSA and might buy ZS4. I think this will help me figure out what I prefer. However, it sounds like the TRN v80 should be bought before ZS4.

Do KZ's have a resale value? 50%?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 16, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> The TRN 8 core balanced 2.5mm cable (bigger, the black & silver color) cost= 8$, that sounds well on AS10 and ZS6, better sounding than the KZ 2.5 note I do have too the trn yellow & silver color cable and it sounds too bright, even with the ES4


You're saying both 8 core TRN cables sound different? I assumed they would sound the same. I thought the color was different but if the sound is different too that benefits everyone and TRN will sell more cables.


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## Moys (Dec 16, 2018)

jeromeaparis said:


> Yes, I think that my AS10 is better than my ZS6, highs are softer and better overall sound & details.
> I do use them and ZSN only with 2.5 balanced cable on my dap Pioneer XDP-30R
> I use 2 kind of 2.5 cables:
> The KZ silver plated 2.5 balanced cable (thin & silver color) cost= 7 $, that sounds well on ZSN & ED16
> ...



Thanks a lot for the info about balanced cables, that will help me a lot.

Edit: I want to purchase the cable on amazon.fr but the only ones i can find are:

https://www.amazon.fr/Cuivre-Écouteurs-équilibré-connecteur-0-78pin/dp/B07KHP5B2M ( doesn't seem balanced even though the title says so )

and : https://www.amazon.fr/Ridecle-Accessoires-Écouteurs-Lecteur-MP3-8-Strand/dp/B07JC1JTB9 but i I cant find the proper one from the load of option to chose from, could you help me out?

Désolé du dérangement.


----------



## Nimweth

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't like to hear this.  Is the ZS10 the only newest KZ you've heard? Those others are old. I think I'm done with KZ for a while. Still waiting for ZSNx2, AS10, ZS10, ZSA and might buy ZS4. I think this will help me figure out what I prefer. However, it sounds like the TRN v80 should be bought before ZS4.
> 
> Do KZ's have a resale value? 50%?


Yes, the ZS10 is the latest KZ I have. I have the ZS4 coming soon. I don't know the resale value, but with such low prices available online I imagine it would not be very much!


----------



## jeromeaparis (Dec 16, 2018)

Moys said:


> Thanks a lot for the info about balanced cables, that will help me a lot.
> 
> Edit: I want to purchase the cable on amazon.fr but the only ones i can find are:
> 
> ...



Yes, you can get it here:
https://www.amazon.fr/Ridecle-Accessoires-Écouteurs-Lecteur-MP3-8-Strand/dp/B07JBJGNM1?th=1

https://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B07JBJGNM1/ref=olp_twister_child?ie=UTF8&mv_color_name=0   10,47€ shipment included

choose the right one for balanced KZ earphone, it is "0.75mm + 2.5mm plug"
beware the seller is in China,  for chrismas presents, if you order with France destination, it takes usualy 2 or 3 weeks to arrive, maybe more at christmas time.

On Aliexpress, you can find sellers who accept paypal, those do:
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS10-ZST-AS10-2-5mm-jack-quilibr-e-c-ble-argent-plaqu-Casque-fil-de/32871535021.html


----------



## Mybutthurts

I've got these on order from gearbest to try out. Quite cheap I think.

https://gearbest.app.link/jWshOOBFHS


----------



## sino8r

eclein said:


> Hey...congrats on 5000 posts!! Hey do you guys know how to cure stuttering Bluetooth?
> When I use Spotify on my android phone or ipad I get intermittent stuttering and it won’t go away no matter how many background apps, location services etc I turn off. Its fine for awhile then starts up again...what does it any idea??
> HELP!
> Ty
> ed



What bluetooth adapter are you using? If it's a KZ, that's a known issue. The TRNs have a better reputation. I've used both before and had similar experience with what's reported as stated earlier.

If you want the best bluetooth experience, I'd recommend the TFZ 2 pin for 50 bucks and/or the Sony MUC-M2BT1 with mmcx to 2 pin adapters if money is no object. Both have transformed my audio experience. I rarely use my wires anymore.

Some folks here have tried the TRN BT20 which is the first I've heard off truly wireless bluetooth for 2 pins. Has good reviews mostly. Haven't tried it myself. Maybe it's a wait and see thing for me.

And finally, sometimes it can be the source especially if your device is older. I just upgraded to Samsung Note 9 from the 4 and my range has improved a bit. Plus, LDAC is alot of fun but you need the Sony MUC-M2BT1 take advantage of that.

One final thing, I notice if I'm on the street downtown walking to work or lunch. The bluetooth can be sketchy on occasion due to interference from other wireless sources. That should be easily diagnose though.

Good luck!


----------



## Moys

jeromeaparis said:


> Yes, you can get it here:
> https://www.amazon.fr/Ridecle-Accessoires-Écouteurs-Lecteur-MP3-8-Strand/dp/B07JBJGNM1?th=1
> 
> https://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B07JBJGNM1/ref=olp_twister_child?ie=UTF8&mv_color_name=0   10,47€ shipment included
> ...



Thanks again, and thank you guys for helping me with my demands.

I'll most likely go for the AS10 and tell you guys what I think about it. But I'll also keep an open ear for other iems that could be complementary with that one and cover a wider use and taste to chose from. 

I wish you all good holidays!


----------



## Slater

pashhtk27 said:


> I bought a few pairs of starline tips and they are slightly different from the original ones (that came with older KZs like ZS3)
> The new tips are darker and made of the more common silicone material, while the originals have a lighter grey color and are slightly softer.
> The shape, size, design, bore size, everything else is the same.
> 
> ...



There’s actually 3 different Starline tips:

- the original grey ones (the most stiff)
- the original black ones (medium stiffness)
- a 2nd black one (the softest out of all 3)


----------



## WapeR

blur.png said:


> if you like to hear everything that you never heard with the  ZS3 id say go with the trn V80, its non-kz but its a very good iem that is very sensitive & detailed with its stock cable, its a bit expensive compared to the es4 & zsn but its worth it, the iem feels like it adjust itself to the music, though if you're used to v-shaped it will sound weird when you use it for the first time.
> 
> now im not sure if this applies to everyone but the es4 gives me a bit of asmr feeling the first month im using it, because some music sounds so close/intimate or playing just behind me that it makes me feel weirdly good, id say its a "relaxing" iem to listen, compared to the zsn at least, it sounds more balanced & laid back making all sounds feel on the same level apart from a small treble boost.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for that helpful information.
I’m not very familiar with sound vocabulary but I think I understood you.
Now I’m between ES4 and TRN V80, I have to read more (job doesn’t let me search for more info)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Moys said:


> Thanks again, and thank you guys for helping me with my demands.
> 
> I'll most likely go for the AS10 and tell you guys what I think about it. I wish you all good holidays!


That's a very good safe choice, I hear. I'm waiting for mine as well. You might as well start with the best model(s) and stick with it so you don't waste money like the rest of us buying every (other) low priced model. Have a delicious holiday this season!


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## LaughMoreDaily

WapeR said:


> Now I’m between ES4 and TRN V80, I have to read more (job doesn’t let me search for more info)


Why not just buy them both? They're most likely very different in terms of sound signature and they're from two competing companies. The ES4 is also pretty awesome but I can imagine how amazing the V80 is too...


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## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 16, 2018)

Mybutthurts said:


> I've got these on order from gearbest to try out. Quite cheap I think.
> 
> https://gearbest.app.link/jWshOOBFHS


I never liked these tri-flanges. I've ordered them a couple times and they're always cheaply made and don't sound the best either.

I bought these bi-flanges because of your link after searching for them: https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_707822.html?wid=1433363


----------



## Slater

WapeR said:


> I’m not very familiar with sound vocabulary but I think I understood you.



Perhaps you will find this helpful friend:

https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Kind of looks a bit ugly/cheap compared to ZSN but hey if it sounds better... it's worth it!


My PIC's don't really do justice, they both actually look nice and compliment each other.


----------



## SweetEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A person commented on youtube that the ZSN tuning is a RevoNext QT2 ripoff? Any comments?


yes i own both... they sound similar to Qt2...


----------



## WapeR

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why not just buy them both? They're most likely very different in terms of sound signature and they're from two competing companies. The ES4 is also pretty awesome but I can imagine how amazing the V80 is too...



I want only one as I already have tons of earphones and I only want to buy the best for me in terms of sound quality. I hope I can find my perfect match 



Slater said:


> Perhaps you will find this helpful friend:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/articles/describing-sound-a-glossary.12328/



Thanks!


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said: ↑


> A person commented on youtube that the ZSN tuning is a RevoNext QT2 ripoff? Any comments?





SweetEars said:


> yes i own both... they sound similar to Qt2...


Let's see...the Revonext mentioned costs ~$40 in AliExpress. The ZSN is sold for ~$14.59 there. _If_ all other things _were_ considered more or less similar, including, as mentioned, sound and/or tuning, I'd rather have the rip-off.


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## SweetEars (Dec 16, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> LaughMoreDaily said: ↑
> 
> 
> Let's see...the Revonext mentioned costs ~$40 in AliExpress. The ZSN is sold for ~$14.59 there. _If_ all other things _were_ considered more or less similar, including, as mentioned, sound and/or tuning, I'd rather have the rip-off.


by far here ..both sound close but not really same for refined ears. RN wins in overall coherency between layering mids lows and highs .. expecially all of its elements with the soundstage transparency ... RN has better enveloping  and engaging soundstage. instread of stating the differences between treble bass and mids, its best compared in terms of sound presentation. And that means soundstage

*the main difference is that the RN presents a sound that has the elements floating in sound space or stage.. RN has more of this effect than the ZSN. Not to say the ZSN doesnt, it has too but overshadowed by the steely sounding mids ...*

the ZSN has is trying to separate the layering too much at the expense of the soundstage ..and ZSN has a rather Bright or steely vocals...there is more air to the RN and soundstage is deeper forwards and backwards type of stage .... the ZSN presents a more oval soundstage but depth wise  its depth is overshadowed by the forward mids...

the below will give u an idea of what i am talking about. the ZSN - red, RN = black *width* soundstage compared. in 2D space

in terms of depth red = RN, black is ZSN .. so RN has a more *depth *from forwards to backwards in 3D


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> Checkout my first impressions of the new CCA C10 from the KZ family!
> Post #20678
> 
> -Clear


Thanks so much, Clear! Some questions, if you don't mind:
1) Do you also happen to have the ZS10 (also 1 DD + 4 BA)? If yes, how does the CCA C10 compare to it sound wise?
2) From your photos the CCA C10 looks gorgeous; how is it (shell + cable) in terms of build?
3) Apparently the ZSN cable (that seems to be that of the ZSN Purple) is thicker; from what you have researched, is there only 1 type cable for all 3 C10 models or is there any difference, like that with the ZSN purple vis-a-vis the cyan and black?

You don't have to answer right away. I'd rather have the answers to my first 2 queries after you've given the C10 some time to settle and after you've properly put it through its paces. 

You've bought yours for only $28, right? I could get it here (Shopee) for ~$27.50 or even less with more Shopee Coins. 

Right now I'm sending all sorts of positive vibes sprinkled with lots of hints my husband's way as regards the KZ AS06 and the CCA C10. Hope these will be received favorably and fruitfully by year's end.


----------



## SybilLance

SweetEars said:


> by far here ..both sound close but not really same for refined ears. RN wins in overall coherency between layering mids lows and highs .. expecially all of its elements with the soundstage transparency ... RN has better enveloping  and engaging soundstage. instread of stating the differences between treble bass and mids, its best compared in terms of sound presentation. And that means soundstage
> 
> *the main difference is that the RN presents a sound that has the elements floating in sound space or stage.. RN has more of this effect than the ZSN. Not to say the ZSN doesnt, it has too but overshadowed by the steely sounding mids ...*
> 
> ...


Now this is a proper clarification.  Thanks!


----------



## SweetEars

1clearhead said:


> Checkout my first impressions of the new CCA C10 from the KZ family!
> Post #20678
> 
> -Clear


u mentioned they sound liek ZSN but without agressiveness.. means they are closer to RN QT2?

how about the soundstage?


----------



## CoiL

SweetEars said:


> by far here ..both sound close but not really same for refined ears. RN wins in overall coherency between layering mids lows and highs .. expecially all of its elements with the soundstage transparency ... RN has better enveloping  and engaging soundstage. instread of stating the differences between treble bass and mids, its best compared in terms of sound presentation. And that means soundstage
> 
> *the main difference is that the RN presents a sound that has the elements floating in sound space or stage.. RN has more of this effect than the ZSN. Not to say the ZSN doesnt, it has too but overshadowed by the steely sounding mids ...*
> 
> ...


Thanks! Should have gotten RNQT2 instead ZSN but well, here I am with ZSN due to hype. But I still like it despite little flaws.
Will look more into FR graphs between two...


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 17, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Thanks so much, Clear! Some questions, if you don't mind:
> 1) Do you also happen to have the ZS10 (also 1 DD + 4 BA)? If yes, how does the CCA C10 compare to it sound wise?
> 2) From your photos the CCA C10 looks gorgeous; how is it (shell + cable) in terms of build?
> 3) Apparently the ZSN cable (that seems to be that of the ZSN Purple) is thicker; from what you have researched, is there only 1 type cable for all 3 C10 models or is there any difference, like that with the ZSN purple vis-a-vis the cyan and black?
> ...


About 1): Sorry, I don't have the ZS10 to compare them, but according to past reviews I've read and FR graphs I've recently seen they should sound different. I have a hunch is the cross-over board and the placement of drivers inside the housing.

About 2): The build quality from housing to the cables are very similar to quality when compared to the ZSN -alloy shell and good quality cables!

About 3): Apparently, for what I see in many PIC's it's only one type cable for all three C10's. The one light-copper cable that comes with the purple ZSN is slightly thicker. Good news is that I was able to try the ZSN with the C10 cable and it is safe to say that it provides good electrical audio flow...just as good as the light-copper cable. No wonder the C10's balanced signature sounds more similar to the purple ZSN!


It seems like CCA started off with a "bang" by riding off the popular ZSN's style and similar sound signature. Smart! 


Glad to help! 


-Clear


----------



## blur.png

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why not just buy them both? They're most likely very different in terms of sound signature and they're from two competing companies. The ES4 is also pretty awesome but I can imagine how amazing the V80 is too...


now maybe i've replied too much but just to add up the V80 _may_ sound harsh on the high end because of the sparkly-like sound or as piercing as the ZS6 on treble heavy tracks (especially at higher volumes)
the simplest description i can give to ES4 vs V80, 
ES4: warm sounding, close/intimate soundstage, slightly boosted treble/not as sparkly | V80: brighter than the es4, sparkly highs, wide soundstage, extremely sensitive (i can hear my phone background noise)
if you have both and A,B them, they are different & its just up to what you want, warm & relaxing or brighter & more detailed , both have the same bass capability in my observation, its just a choice of either a warm or bright_-er _signature (sorry if its vague but thats as good as i could describe it)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I was listening to the ED16 a bit today... I know it's weird that I bought them a year ago but never really listened to them. I don't really like their sound even though people were hyping them as the next best thing when they came out. 

I think the ES4 is much better than the ED16 and easier to listen to.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Dec 17, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I was listening to the ED16 a bit today... I know it's weird that I bought them a year ago but never really listened to them. I don't really like their sound even though people were hyping them as the next best thing when they came out.
> 
> I think the ES4 is much better than the ED16 and easier to listen to.



Personaly, I do preffer the ED16.

Stock ES4 is dark & bassy.
tuned with proper earbud (ex: "turbo-whirl") or better with the right cable (ex: KZ "silver plated" iron grey color)
it is a very good earbud with very dynamic warm sound tube amp like.
Voices, accoustic pianos sound very natural.
Good bass, good trebles not piercing.
Few details
Stock ES4 will fit very well as is on a cold and very analytic smartphone.

ED16 stock cable is not very good.
I found the KZ silver plated thin silver color cable sounds well with it (2.5 or 3.5mm plug) I use it balanced.
ED16-"ZS7" has a lot more details than ES4, it's a very different sound signature.
More sub-bass and less mid-bass than ES4

"tuned" ES4 is pretty good but I love to hear a lot of things around in the record


----------



## SweetEars

CoiL said:


> Thanks! Should have gotten RNQT2 instead ZSN but well, here I am with ZSN due to hype. But I still like it despite little flaws.
> Will look more into FR graphs between two...


there is newer model of Revonext   called QT2S.. The "s" at the back...


----------



## SweetEars

CoiL said:


> Thanks! Should have gotten RNQT2 instead ZSN but well, here I am with ZSN due to hype. But I still like it despite little flaws.
> Will look more into FR graphs between two...


Qt2 is better than ZSN.. but for budgetd IEM , ZSN wins in price.and value..


----------



## Conest

I've been testing my KZ ZSA and ZSNs..and I'm not good with the words so I'll just say.. I agree with whatever Voicemaster has said about ZSNs.. they really are exceptionally good..little sibilant (which i think will go away with burn in, Currently using 1more assistant)..
Now about ZSA, they aren't as sensitive as ZSN... I find them really soothing.. (very comfortable )
I'm just too happy that i have my First IEMs from KZ and both are really good , they sound very different from each other...


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## 1clearhead (Dec 17, 2018)

QT2 and ZSN comparison:

OK, I just got finish listening and swapping between the QT2 and the ZSN for a little over an hour now. My conclusion is that they are both good and have different sound signatures, but just because the QTS cost more, that *does not* make them better. The ZSN is very lively with punch and clarity and is capable of bringing out the best of any genre in my play list. I personally think the soundstage is great and imaging is precise. The ZSN has titanium film diaphragms that brings out that punch and detailed bass, which harmonizes well with the BA armatures and gives it that one of a kind sound signature. ...While, in the other hand, the QT2 has a nice soundstage but is not the best I've heard and can sound boring and have some sibilance no less than the ZSN at some of the same tracks. Overall, they are both good in their own rights.

C10 and ZSN comparison:

The C10 might not have the titanium film diaphragms like his KZ brother ZSN, but it divides all the different frequencies nicely through the cross-over board giving it astonishing precision and sound quality through the BA armatures and HD drivers.

In the end, it's all about what one is personally searching for in terms of sound signature. I love the ZSN for it's incredible life-like, in-your-face sound signature, plus the price and value! I like the QT2 stage presence, but there's always a touch of grainy sibilance that pops up once in a while and can sound lifeless at times, which stops me from loving them to a "T". Now, with the C10, I'm only at 25 hours burning them in and ironically they bring out the same technical results as the QT2 (stage presence), but sounds closer to a happy and energetic sounding ZSN.

So, one thing I can get from this is that *paying more doesn't necessarily mean better sound quality*. The C10 cost cheaper than the QT2, but cost more than the ZSN. If you were to ask me which one is best between ZSN and QTS and you happen to like both? ...Just get the C10, best of both worlds!


Always glad to help...

-Clear


----------



## TechnoidFR

1clearhead said:


> QT2 and ZSN comparison:
> 
> OK, I just got finish listening and swapping between the QT2 and the ZSN for a little over an hour now. My conclusion is that they are both good and have different sound signatures, but just because the QTS cost more, that *does not* make them better. The ZSN is very lively with punch and clarity and is capable of bringing out the best of any genre in my play list. I personally think the soundstage is great and imaging is precise. The ZSN has titanium film diaphragms that brings out that punch and detailed bass, which harmonizes well with the BA armatures and gives it that one of a kind sound signature. ...While, in the other hand, the QT2 has a nice soundstage but is not the best I've heard and can sound boring and have some sibilance no less than the ZSN at some of the same tracks. Overall, they are both good in their own rights.
> 
> ...



So Far different than ZS10. I broke one ba with multiple falling. But the signature for electro and metal is so awesome


----------



## 1clearhead

TechnoidFR said:


> So Far different than ZS10. I broke one ba with multiple falling. But the signature for electro and metal is so awesome


Yea, one can't be too careful!...I hate when one of my hybrids accidentally fell out my hands 3 years ago! The BA armature never sounded the same ever since.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I was listening to the ED16 a bit today... I know it's weird that I bought them a year ago but never really listened to them. I don't really like their sound even though people were hyping them as the next best thing when they came out.
> 
> I think the ES4 is much better than the ED16 and easier to listen to.



I had a difficult time getting a seal with my ED16.  I ended up needing Spinfits for that one.  Spinfits are always my last resort because they are expensive.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> I had a difficult time getting a seal with my ED16.  I ended up needing Spinfits for that one.  Spinfits are always my last resort because they are expensive.


JVC Spiraldots from Japan are the same price. $5.00 a pair but you have to buy three pairs minimum.


----------



## Bartig

1clearhead said:


> About 1): Sorry, I don't have the ZS10 to compare them, but according to past reviews I've read and FR graphs I've recently seen they should sound different. I have a hunch is the cross-over board and the placement of drivers inside the housing.
> 
> About 2): The build quality from housing to the cables are very similar to quality when compared to the ZSN -alloy shell and good quality cables!
> 
> ...


Have to correct you a bit here. CCA didn't start of with a bang. They started with the CCA C04 which is for bass lovers mostly, but not much else. Think of it as a KZ ES4 with way tighter bass... but totally rolled off highs. Not saying it doesn't sound good, because it's quite tasteful sounding, but it's more of a mainstream sound than an audiophile one.


----------



## Bartig

They do look nice though.


----------



## SweetEars

1clearhead said:


> QT2 and ZSN comparison:
> 
> OK, I just got finish listening and swapping between the QT2 and the ZSN for a little over an hour now. My conclusion is that they are both good and have different sound signatures, but just because the QTS cost more, that *does not* make them better. The ZSN is very lively with punch and clarity and is capable of bringing out the best of any genre in my play list. I personally think the soundstage is great and imaging is precise. The ZSN has titanium film diaphragms that brings out that punch and detailed bass, which harmonizes well with the BA armatures and gives it that one of a kind sound signature. ...While, in the other hand, the QT2 has a nice soundstage but is not the best I've heard and can sound boring and have some sibilance no less than the ZSN at some of the same tracks. Overall, they are both good in their own rights.
> 
> ...


the link for C10?


----------



## SweetEars

1clearhead said:


> QT2 and ZSN comparison:
> 
> OK, I just got finish listening and swapping between the QT2 and the ZSN for a little over an hour now. My conclusion is that they are both good and have different sound signatures, but just because the QTS cost more, that *does not* make them better. The ZSN is very lively with punch and clarity and is capable of bringing out the best of any genre in my play list. I personally think the soundstage is great and imaging is precise. The ZSN has titanium film diaphragms that brings out that punch and detailed bass, which harmonizes well with the BA armatures and gives it that one of a kind sound signature. ...While, in the other hand, the QT2 has a nice soundstage but is not the best I've heard and can sound boring and have some sibilance no less than the ZSN at some of the same tracks. Overall, they are both good in their own rights.
> 
> ...


thanks for the info.....


----------



## stryed

Not sure that I'll be able to wait for reviews before buying the ZS7!!! 
Have been longing for the KZ ZS6 for ages after enjoying the ZS5 as my daily driver, and skipped all the recent ones.


----------



## scottySK

stryed said:


> Not sure that I'll be able to wait for reviews before buying the ZS7!!!
> Have been longing for the KZ ZS6 for ages after enjoying the ZS5 as my daily driver, and skipped all the recent ones.



Coupon codes from thephonograph.net has it at $37

I'm tempted


----------



## SweetEars

stryed said:


> Not sure that I'll be able to wait for reviews before buying the ZS7!!!
> Have been longing for the KZ ZS6 for ages after enjoying the ZS5 as my daily driver, and skipped all the recent ones.


qt2 is a better version of the KZ ZS6


----------



## mbwilson111

SweetEars said:


> qt2 is a better version of the KZ ZS6



You can't generalize like that.  It will not be true for everyone.  I could not get a proper fit with the QT2 but I love my ZS6.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 17, 2018)

Bartig said:


> Have to correct you a bit here. CCA didn't start of with a bang. They started with the CCA C04 which is for bass lovers mostly, but not much else. Think of it as a KZ ES4 with way tighter bass... but totally rolled off highs. Not saying it doesn't sound good, because it's quite tasteful sounding, but it's more of a mainstream sound than an audiophile one.


...and you're totally right! I meant to say the CCA C10 as a "multi-BA and driver" started out with a "bang". I knew there where several other CCA's before hand already being sold through the aliexpress KZ store.

Thanks for commenting...


----------



## 1clearhead

SweetEars said:


> the link for C10?


You can try this link...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CCA...tion-Bass-Fever-DIY-General/32961783828.html?

This is actually one of KZ's official headset store. 


-Clear


----------



## SybilLance

Deleted


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 18, 2018)

I think the info Clear provided from that Shopee.my seller as well as his observations about the packaging of the C10 unit he received do support the premise that KZ is a sister (if not the parent) company of CCA.

This means that talking about CCA models in this thread may not be off-topic, right?


----------



## blur.png

might be off topic a bit here, we know kz means knowledge zenith, but what does cca means ? 
also about the C10, anyone here might own a ZS6/V80 to compare to the C10, for the price its definitely in my watch list


----------



## SybilLance

CCA might mean Crystal Clear Audio but after all, what's in a name? I'm referring to the entity that's ultimately responsible for the manufacture of the subject hybrid in-ear. The context for my query is found in the posts of @1clearhead.


----------



## 1clearhead

blur.png said:


> might be off topic a bit here, we know kz means knowledge zenith, but what does cca means ?
> also about the C10, anyone here might own a ZS6/V80 to compare to the C10, for the price its definitely in my watch list


Same thoughts here! ...I'm still trying to figure the "CCA" name myself. I'll probably ask my Chinese friend to research the name for me this week. 
In the meantime, I am well aware of posting about CCA in the KZ forum. So, for now, I do post more about them in the Chinese/IEM forum. Hopefully, that will show some balance in the matter.


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> CCA might mean *Crystal Clear Audio* but after all, what's in a name? I'm referring to the entity that's ultimately responsible for the manufacture of the subject hybrid in-ear. The context for my query is found in the posts of @1clearhead.


Who knows!...That makes a lot of sense to me!


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 19, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> I think the info Clear provided from that Shopee.my seller as well as his observations about the packaging of the C10 unit he received do support the premise that KZ is a sister (if not the parent) company of CCA.
> 
> This means that talking about CCA models in this thread may not be off-topic, right?





SybilLance said:


> CCA might mean Crystal Clear Audio but after all, what's in a name? I'm referring to the entity that's ultimately responsible for the manufacture of the subject hybrid in-ear. The context for my query is found in the posts of @1clearhead.



If it comes down to casting votes or testing the waters my vote would be one of inclusion.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. 

Apparently, CCA may serve as a test bed that could well be an asset for KZ. 

Thanks to Clear's photos we can see that KZ (via CCA) has responded to the muted outcry (from myself and others) about KZ's current blocky Y-split that seems to catch on just about everything. 

This new Y-split seems to be a nod to the clean-cut old skool Y-split (found on the likes of the ATR, ED9 and just about every early KZ you could name) while also being a happy medium between that old skool Y-split and the newer blocky split that every 2018 KZ cable has. Not sure whom we should thank - KZ or CCA or both - but it looks like a sturdy piece of equipment to me. Someone is paying attention and responding accordingly. 




 


Also, take note that those earhooks are preformed WITH NO METAL WIRE! Again, Not sure whom we should thank - KZ or CCA or both - but it looks like someone is paying attention and responding. I'm pleased with the upgraded connectors as well. 



 

If a CCA can be shipped with these cables then KZ must do the same to save face because the standard plastic connector found on earlier KZ's looks terribly pedestrian in comparison (excluding the newer connectors designed for the ZSN) 

If this FR graph is anything to go by those CCA C10's could have really good presence in the lower midrange but we'll have to wait for Clear's feedback.


 


In other news, if the FR graphs in these promotional images are anything to go by then those of you that love the ZS10 could be very happy campers, indeed. 

ZS10 


 


ZS7


 

Perhaps an even cleaner and more defined ZS10 sound signature. The proof and truth will only be revealed by picking up a set.

Just when you thought your wallet could take a little breather....


----------



## HerrXRDS

scottySK said:


> Coupon codes from thephonograph.net has it at $37
> 
> I'm tempted



Well crap, I was about to wait for some reviews first but this did it. Got an extra $5 for using PP payment so I just paid $33. Now for the wait.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 18, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> If it comes down to casting votes or testing the waters my vote would be one of inclusion.
> 
> A rose by any other name is still a rose.
> 
> ...


Thanks, DocHoliday for your insight and comparisons...!

For now, I have reached 45 hours burning-in the CCA C10's and since the 25 hour mark they have really taken off! Finally, I can definitely say so far that they provide precise detailed acoustics when compared to the ZSN. While the ZSN is a wild energetic beast with in-your-face open and fun acoustics (which I still personally like), the C10 plays and entertains as the maestro in a full on-stage orchestra! Though I still love the full approach of the ZSN, others will appreciate C10's way of taking the same ZSN sound signature field and making it a lot easier to manipulate in a professional use! Both perform well with many choices of genre's to choose from. But, ZSN will be your choice for a wild and fun ride, while the C10 will be the more accurate and precision listening experience of the two.

I'm totally blown away on these two models and their collaboration in showing the listener how they perform versus the competition from a brother and sister company approach!

At the moment, I love both equally the same! ...They really compliment each other!

I'll continue to burn-in the C10 to 100 hours and see if any other changes occur and hopefully make it to the top of my list. We'll see!


-Clear


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> Well ****, I was about to wait for some reviews first but this did it. Got an extra $5 for using PP payment so I just paid $33. Now for the wait.



Extra $5 for using PayPal? How do you take advantage of that?


----------



## jeromeaparis

*1.KZ AS06 In-ear Stereo Earphones 3BA HiFi BassEarbuds - GREEN WITHOUT MIC*

https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_009516887983.html?wid=1433363&lkid=13836223

33.99$ with the code

here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/201...ni-39-99-3-5mm-universal-0-99.832367/page-129


----------



## HerrXRDS

Slater said:


> Extra $5 for using PayPal? How do you take advantage of that?



When I was selecting the payment the PayPal option had a "Get $5 discount using PayPal" under it. I don't know why it showed up. Seems to be some algorithm PP is using to give you a discount cause I just tried again and the option wasn't there.


----------



## C2thew

So if it boils down to the flagship of the KZ vs TRN, which would you pick?  

TRN v80
or 
KZ AS10?  (Ba10 isn't my style of sound signature nor is the KZ ZS6 which leans towards a brighter sound.)


----------



## CoiL

C2thew said:


> So if it boils down to the flagship of the KZ vs TRN, which would you pick?
> 
> TRN v80
> or
> KZ AS10?  (Ba10 isn't my style of sound signature nor is the KZ ZS6 which leans towards a brighter sound.)


CCA C10 ?


----------



## blur.png

C2thew said:


> So if it boils down to the flagship of the KZ vs TRN, which would you pick?
> 
> TRN v80
> or
> KZ AS10?  (Ba10 isn't my style of sound signature nor is the KZ ZS6 which leans towards a brighter sound.)



V80 sounds like the ZS6 sometimes, but way more in control, the far highs are a bit more sparklier and the sub bass is more punchy

so if you dislike the ZS6-like brightness, the V80 isnt for you


----------



## paulindss

Long time i don't show up here. But le me tell you. Kz zsn is outstanding value. Received one from Nicehck for my brazillian yt channel and I THINK i prefer these vs my gone v80. Because i have bqeyz at hands and they sound smaller than ZSN.

I will be having KZ as06 at hands some weeks from now and should post my impressions here.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 18, 2018)

I HAVE to share those two bands I just found & bought albums:
 

Those two are great with ZSN... BUT... mesmerizing! with IT01(modded) and ZS5v1.
ZSN get too "shouty/metallic" at times with highs and pretty congested/mixed up/confusing in soundstage frontal depth/layering/transparency.

_GoGo Penguin - Humdrum Star_ (for example track Bardo) lacks littlebit definition and can`t keep up so good as it should to contrabass speed.
Drums cymbals lack littlebit in dynamical intonations and decays/reverbs also.



I know, I`m whining too much?


----------



## Slater

paulindss said:


> Long time i don't show up here. But le me tell you. Kz zsn is outstanding value. Received one from Nicehck for my brazillian yt channel and I THINK i prefer these vs my gone v80. Because i have bqeyz at hands and they sound smaller than ZSN.
> 
> I will be having KZ as06 at hands some weeks from now and should post my impressions here.



Which BQEYZ?


----------



## paulindss

Slater said:


> Which BQEYZ?



KB1


----------



## Zerohour88

https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2475945&extra=page=1&page=1

more impressions on the CCA C10 (quite positive, so far)

but what's more interesting is someone mentioning that the KZ 16 driver (8 per side) model might be be released near Chinese New Year (another 2 months or so)


----------



## eclein

Zerohour88 said:


> but what's more interesting is someone mentioning that the KZ 16 driver (8 per side) model might be be released near Chinese New Year (another 2 months or so)


Wow.... I’m really looking forward to an eight driver iem....the tuning if anywhere near recently released models could really put KZ/CCA on a level where the direct competition is formidable!


----------



## blur.png (Dec 19, 2018)

its seems like im the only one here who hates the ZSN, for my type of music & listening volume its just too much, too harsh on the vocals & leading instrument (highs?), even after a week of burn in, ill be honest, id take the ZS6 "piercing highs" all day compared to the ZSN, and based on memory, the CK8 and ZSN have _similar_ sound sig, they are too vocal focused which isnt my type
what iem should i avoid then if i hate the ZSN, could be from any chi-fi brand so i dont fall to the same pit again


----------



## ddmt

blur.png said:


> its seems like im the only one here who hates the ZSN, for my type of music & listening volume its just too much, too harsh on the vocals & leading instrument (highs?), even after a week of burn in, ill be honest, id take the ZS6 "piercing highs" all day compared to the ZSN, and based on memory, the CK8 and ZSN have _similar_ sound, they are too vocal focused which isnt my type
> what iem should i avoid then if i hate the ZSN, could be from any chi-fi brand so i dont fall to the same pit again



Not just you, after 5 days non stop burn-in, it's not for me too. I prefer the Sony MH755 (not sure I have the original or not).
But then again, ZSN is quite good for the price.


----------



## SybilLance

eclein said:


> Wow.... I’m really looking forward to an eight driver iem....the tuning if anywhere near recently released models could really put KZ/CCA on a level where the direct competition is formidable!


It'd be the same subjunctive directed at KZ since the inception of this thread: If KZ were to tighten its quality control...like take its best and most efficient technicians and assembly workers and give them their own clean room—I don't know.

Then perhaps tune to confront IEMs sold in the $100-$125 range then sell at $80 or below. Then the following year do the same targeting the next tier but keeping the price increments at say $15 or below.

At this point I let out a wistful sigh...

On the other hand, it's an eight-driver IEM...that may yet sound extraordinary...and that may yet be sold at ~$75 or less. Yes, I'd also look forward to it.


----------



## eclein

_On the other hand, it's an eight-driver IEM...that may yet sound extraordinary...and that may yet be sold at ~$75 or less. Yes, I'd also look forward to it._
_
*  <Well we can’t stop it, might as well roll with it!!>

*_


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I find it interesting how "cheap" the AS06 is. I paid $44 for the AS10 on sale and it's regular price is $66. But the AS06 is only $42 and it may be the regular price.


----------



## SybilLance

blur.png said:


> its seems like im the only one here who hates the ZSN, for my type of music & listening volume its just too much, too harsh on the vocals & leading instrument (highs?), even after a week of burn in, ill be honest, id take the ZS6 "piercing highs" all day compared to the ZSN, and based on memory, the CK8 and ZSN have _similar_ sound sig, they are too vocal focused which isnt my type
> what iem should i avoid then if i hate the ZSN, could be from any chi-fi brand so i dont fall to the same pit again





ddmt said:


> Not just you, after 5 days non stop burn-in, it's not for me too. I prefer the Sony MH755 (not sure I have the original or not).
> But then again, ZSN is quite good for the price.


That's too bad. I really wish you could both enjoy the ZSN. From what I hear depending on eartip, the ZSN would be moderately warm to bright. At the moment Miles Davis' _Bitches Brew_ is on (been doing a comparison with the ED16 for days now) and I don't find it harsh through the ZSN.


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find it interesting how "cheap" the AS06 is. I paid $44 for the AS10 on sale and it's regular price is $66. But the AS06 is only $42 and it may be the regular price.



Some sellers are already selling the AS06 for usd$30 (might get them even cheaper on sale), so I assume its the normal KZ practice of setting a mildly high RRP and then letting sellers set their own margins (to incentivize them for stocking up or selling KZ models, probably).


----------



## SweetEars

testing this song... u will find the ZSN vastly inferior to Qt2.... 
not sure if CCA C10 is good on this? someoen can test?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SweetEars said:


> testing this song... u will find the ZSN vastly inferior to Qt2....


Well, KZ isn't going to sell a $40 IEM for $20. That doesn't  make sense. Some people might like the ZSN better than QT2 but the latter should still be superior because of it's price bracket?


----------



## Wiljen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Well, KZ isn't going to sell a $40 IEM for $20. That doesn't  make sense. Some people might like the ZSN better than QT2 but the latter should still be superior because of it's price bracket?



Ah if only this statement were true.   I have bought or reviewed many a product that did worse than the Kz product line at vastly higher prices.  Most recently the Opera Factory OM1 at $35 which I would take the ES4 or ZsN over all day every day.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 19, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> Ah if only this statement were true.   I have bought or reviewed many a product that did worse than the Kz product line at vastly higher prices.  Most recently the Opera Factory OM1 at $35 which I would take the ES4 or ZsN over all day every day.


Thanks for mentioning this OM1. Zpolt said he really liked it on youtube but it seemed more like product placement than an opinion, of course he comes from a very different country so his language is different and maybe I confused that... but he says ES4 is his go-to daily driver but then kept saying how great the OM1 is, maybe he was just in love with the looks.

I'll be honest with you, I don't want to buy any IEM that isn't KZ anymore. I've bought a few other brands (from Audiobudget reviews) and have been very disappointed compared to KZ: Timmkoo CX630, MEMT X5, Einsear T2, TRN v20, Somic v4, Boarseman KR25D, UiiSii HM7, Seahf AWK-1009. 

If you think I'm wrong about any of those not being better then a KZ let me know and I will try and audition them against one. I just wasn't too impressed with those. While KZs fit perfectly, have a great sound signature and use a high quality of materials.


----------



## Wiljen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks for mentioning this OM1. Zpolt said he really liked it on youtube but it seemed more like product placement than an opinion, of course he comes from a very different country so his language is different and maybe I confused that... but he says ES4 is his go-to daily driver but then kept saying how great the OM1 is, maybe he was just in love with the looks.
> 
> I'll be honest with you, I don't want to buy any IEM that isn't KZ anymore. I've bought a few other brands (from Audiobudget reviews) and have been very disappointed compared to KZ: Timmkoo CX630, MEMT X5, Einsear T2, TRN v20, Somic v4, Boarseman KR25D, UiiSii HM7, Seahf AWK-1009.
> 
> If you think I'm wrong about any of those not being better then a KZ let me know and I will try and audition them against one. I just wasn't too impressed with those. While KZs fit perfectly, have a great sound signature and use a high quality of materials.



I don't see any in your list that jump out at me as better than the KZ counterparts. The Chi-fi other than KZ worth trying right now is coming from BQEYZ, NiceHCK, TinAudio, and names like that but few dip into the sub-$20 market.  When you get into BA10/AS10 prices, they have a lot more competition.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 19, 2018)

Wiljen said:


> I don't see any in your list that jump out at me as better than the KZ counterparts. The Chi-fi other than KZ worth trying right now is coming from BQEYZ, NiceHCK, TinAudio, and names like that but few dip into the sub-$20 market.  When you get into BA10/AS10 prices, they have a lot more competition.


I feel seriously burned buying all of those. Audiobudget for me isn't a reputable site for reviews anymore. I should have just stuck to KZ and would have saved a $100 at least.

I will try BQEYZ next but Tin Audio... a metal body, not really interested. I almost bought them the last two 11/11's but didn't. Did I make a mistake? Which KZ does the T2 compare to?

Why do you think NiceHCK has such good ear phones? They're almost like a noname brand despite having a popular Ali store.


----------



## Wiljen (Dec 19, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I feel seriously burned buying all of those. Audiobudget for me isn't a reputable site for reviews anymore. I should have just stuck to KZ and would have saved a $100 at least.
> 
> I will try BQEYZ next but Tin Audio... a metal body, not really interested. I almost bought them the last two 11/11's but didn't. Did I make a mistake? Twice?
> 
> Why do you think NiceHCK has such good ear phones? They're almost like a noname brand despite having a popular Ali store.



Comments in order:
BQEYZ is all metal shells too but very worth a try.  I'd go straight for either the KB100 (neutral) or BQ3 (W shape) depending on the sound signature you prefer.

I think NiceHCK is a vendor and sells a number of OEM made products, some of which are better than others, but they have hit a series of solid hits with some of their recent line so whoever is doing their tuning is doing something right.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

This guy says the KZ ZS5 stock cable is no different in sound quality than the 8 core silver plated cable. I call BS!


----------



## B9Scrambler

AS06 in the house and in my ears. So far so good. Impressions to come tomorrow.


----------



## 1clearhead

B9Scrambler said:


> AS06 in the house and in my ears. So far so good. Impressions to come tomorrow.


Good to know! ...Please let us know, particually the balanced sound signature and how they pan out!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 19, 2018)

I don't know about you guys but I'm staying far far away from that new copper/silver mix cable recently came out with. My Type A cable was out of phase and my Type B cable sounds like crap compared to the 8 core TRN cable, 8 core silver plated KZ cable and probably even a stock cable...

The new cable is also so cheaply made it made me think it's creation was just a cash grab. But why water down your brand when it's A+++ to begin with?


----------



## MrMajony (Dec 19, 2018)

I have used KZ ZSN quite a lot and I can not get used to it either, it has a very aggressive sound for my ears. I always end up going back to tin t2


----------



## SweetEars

1clearhead said:


> Thanks, DocHoliday for your insight and comparisons...!
> 
> For now, I have reached 45 hours burning-in the CCA C10's and since the 25 hour mark they have really taken off! Finally, I can definitely say so far that they provide precise detailed acoustics when compared to the ZSN. While the ZSN is a wild energetic beast with in-your-face open and fun acoustics (which I still personally like), the C10 plays and entertains as the maestro in a full on-stage orchestra! Though I still love the full approach of the ZSN, others will appreciate C10's way of taking the same ZSN sound signature field and making it a lot easier to manipulate in a professional use! Both perform well with many choices of genre's to choose from. But, ZSN will be your choice for a wild and fun ride, while the C10 will be the more accurate and precision listening experience of the two.
> 
> ...


Does the zsn nerd burn in?


----------



## SweetEars

MrMajony said:


> I have used KZ ZSN quite a lot and I can not get used to it either, it has a very aggressive sound for my ears. I always end up going back to tin t2


Same opinion here . Furthermore it sounds steely and the mids and highs lack air ot transparency .


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SweetEars said:


> Does the zsn nerd burn in?


Everything needs burn in, including a romantic relationship.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 19, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> Same opinion here . Furthermore it sounds steely and the mids and highs lack air ot transparency .


You go back to your T2 as well or do you have another IEM you prefer? It's interesting hearing these negative comments about the ZSN while I await two of them in the mail. I want to put "Wrong Address - Return To Sender" and see a refund on my credit card in a couple months after waiting a couple months for them already.


----------



## SweetEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You go back to your T2 as well or do you have another IEM you prefer? It's interesting hearing these negative comments about the ZSN while I await two of them in the mail. I want to put "Wrong Address - Return To Sender" and see a refund on my credit card in a couple months after waiting a couple months for them already.


The zsn sounds better with some surround mode if available in your smartphnoes or sound card .

But overall its lacking natural sound or musically not inclined .fyi i owned the trn v20 and its better at being musical than zsn .though their soundstage is not so wide they  have a bit of depth .


----------



## 1clearhead

SweetEars said:


> Does the zsn nerd burn in?


Haha!...I won't quite call the ZSN a nerd, since these guys are very lively and constantly likes to party!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 20, 2018)

What's the best way to color the silver backed ZSN black? 

Goth: Nail polish?


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my TRN bt20 and I am loving it. I am loving the range this bt20 has over my bt3. WIth my bt3, if I were to go to my bathroom (about 15 steps away with walls) the signal will cut in and out; with bt20, no cut out so far, even when I went to the kitchen (about 25 steps away). Connected to my PC with no problem at all (the instruction manual is a joke tho). It is very comfortable and fit my ears like a glove.


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You go back to your T2 as well or do you have another IEM you prefer? It's interesting hearing these negative comments about the ZSN while I await two of them in the mail. I want to put "Wrong Address - Return To Sender" and see a refund on my credit card in a couple months after waiting a couple months for them already.



A few users not liking it doesn't mean its bad. Its all about preference. You buy a lot of stuff and then you slowly find your preference for sound signature, compare them to reviewer/other users and then verify who to trust according to your preference.

it just basically means people who don't like the ZSN have to probably avoid any future recommendation from people who liked them, that's all.


----------



## assassin10000

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's the best way to color the silver backed ZSN black?
> 
> Goth: Nail polish?



Swap it with a black backed one. 

Otherwise it depends on what your willing to do/pay. Anodizing, powder coating, various paints (model, nail, etc) or even just using a black sharpie.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

assassin10000 said:


> Swap it with a black backed one.
> 
> Otherwise it depends on what your willing to do/pay. Anodizing, powder coating, various paints (model, nail, etc) or even just using a black sharpie.


I was thinking of swapping the silver back for a black one but you need a specialized "screwdriver" no? The same one used for opening apple devices? Can I buy this just by itself or would I have to go to a cell phone repair store to do the swapping?


----------



## assassin10000

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I was thinking of swapping the silver back for a black one but you need a specialized "screwdriver" no? The same one used for opening apple devices? Can I buy this just by itself or would I have to go to a cell phone repair store to do the swapping?



I don't have my ZSN yet, so I can't personally confirm but others have said it's the 5 spline Pentalobe screw like the apple ones. 

You can buy the screwdrivers or bits if you already have an interchangeable screwdriver. A local electronics store may even carry what you need in stock if you don't want to wait for shipping.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

assassin10000 said:


> I don't have my ZSN yet, so I can't personally confirm but others have said it's the 5 spline Pentalobe screw like the apple ones.


I will ask my local electronics store but I just realized I would still be stuck with an ugly silver backed ZSN when interchanging with a different bodies color.


----------



## assassin10000

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I will ask my local electronics store but I just realized I would still be stuck with an ugly silver backed ZSN when interchanging with a different bodies color.



Definately a Pentalobe screw, going by pictures (from head-fi reviews). From @B9Scrambler 









You could look at picking up a bit of 'Aluminum Black' by birchwood casey. Originally made for turning aluminum scratches/imperfections black on anodized gun parts. May have to sand (or bead blast) the surface of your silver covers for it to work. Only works on raw aluminum, if there's a clear coat it won't work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002JCW2CG/
https://www.amazon.com/Birchwood-15121-Casey-Aluminum-Touch-Up/dp/B072LT4HCZ


----------



## SweetEars (Dec 20, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> Haha!...I won't quite call the ZSN a nerd, since these guys are very lively and constantly likes to party!


I replaced the ZSN  stock brown copper cable with the EZ Silver/copper mixed cable and the sound becomes different... it becomes more deep and V shaped .... and some the mids and treble become less steely and become more recessed and in the right shape...overall more transparency  and sound stage .. becomes more similar to the Qt2....there seems to be a significant difference after the cable change...

maybe its a stock  cable problem ....anyway not sure if the cable will burn in ?

link to the cable:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...351.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.30994c4d16q6jo


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SweetEars said:


> I replaced the ZSN  stock brown copper cable with the EZ Silver/copper mixed cable and the sound becomes different... its more deep ...and wide ... and some the mids and treble become less steely and become more recessed and in the right shape...overall more transparency  and sound stage .. becomes more similar to the Qt2.... maybe its a cable problem ....anyway not sure if the cable will burn in ?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...351.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.30994c4d16q6jo


I think that cable is crap. Can someone else please compare it to the KZ 8 core silver plated and TRN 8 core Skunk cable? I don't want to seem like I'm blowing smoke, but it's a waste of money. A big waste of money.


----------



## SweetEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think that cable is crap. Can someone else please compare it to the KZ 8 core silver plated and TRN 8 core Skunk cable? I don't want to seem like I'm blowing smoke, but it's a waste of money. A big waste of money.


well the link above ... its the silver/copper cable mixed ..


----------



## CoiL (Dec 20, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think that cable is crap. Can someone else please compare it to the KZ 8 core silver plated and TRN 8 core Skunk cable? I don't want to seem like I'm blowing smoke, but it's a waste of money. A big waste of money.


For 8$ that cable is probably ok but nothing special. It probably uses same PAPRI/Acrolink 8-braid Ag/Cu wires as my DIY cable and it actually measures only about 0.1 Ohm difference with stock purple ZSN copper/transparent cable. Impedance differences under 0.4 Ohm generally make no noticeable difference (my humble subjective opinion though).
ZSN clear copper I have measures ~0.3 Ohm and DIY Ag/Cu ~0.2Ohm.

Imo, when You have stock brownish/black ZSN cable (should measure higher impedance as I remember), then it might have difference with that Ag/Cu cable but when You already have clear/copper ZSN cable - no need to "upgrade" as it won`t make difference.


----------



## Slater

MrMajony said:


> I have used KZ ZSN quite a lot and I can not get used to it either, it has a very aggressive sound for my ears. I always end up going back to tin t2



TinAudio T2 is excellent, so nothing wrong with preferring that over the ZSN!


----------



## SweetEars

there is some incredible depth articulation with the silver/copper mixed cable on the Revonext QT2


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's the best way to color the silver backed ZSN black?
> 
> Goth: Nail polish?



The _best_ way?

Look up DIY anodizing in Google, YouTube, etc. You will have to strip off the existing clear anodizing with lye. You’ll also have to remove the back plates from the IEM, which will also require purchase of a pentalobe security screwdriver.

The downside is that DIY anodizing it will cost you more in materials than just buying a black ZSN. The upside is it will be very durable, even though it’s a cosmetic anodizing and not hard anodizing.

Other options involve coatings - paint, nail polish, etc. I would remove the back plates for this method as well (which again, may involve buying a Pentalobe screwdriver).

Finally, you could also just color it with a permanent marker (Sharpie etc). While not durable, it is easy to redo anytime it rubs off. This method does NOT require removal of the backs. @mbwilson111 colored hers with permanent marker.


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's the best way to color the silver backed ZSN black?


Buy cheap ED12 and swap backplates!


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Buy cheap ED12 and swap backplates!



Or carbon ZST


----------



## Luxed

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't know about you guys but I'm staying far far away from that new copper/silver mix cable recently came out with. My Type A cable was out of phase and my Type B cable sounds like crap compared to the 8 core TRN cable, 8 core silver plated KZ cable and probably even a stock cable...
> 
> The new cable is also so cheaply made it made me think it's creation was just a cash grab. But why water down your brand when it's A+++ to begin with?





LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think that cable is crap. Can someone else please compare it to the KZ 8 core silver plated and TRN 8 core Skunk cable? I don't want to seem like I'm blowing smoke, but it's a waste of money. A big waste of money.


My cable was molded backwards. Yet another issue. But all in all, I really like the cable but it feels a little bit too light at times. I would say that you'd be better to stay away from it because of all the phasing issues and molding and whatnot...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Luxed said:


> My cable was molded backwards. Yet another issue. But all in all, I really like the cable but it feels a little bit too light at times. I would say that you'd be better to stay away from it because of all the phasing issues and molding and whatnot...


How do you tell if the new KZ copper/silver mix cable is molded backwards?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> Buy cheap ED12 and swap backplates!


There doesn't look like there is any screws on the backplate so it'll be a big hassle.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Finally, you could also just color it with a permanent marker (Sharpie etc). While not durable, it is easy to redo anytime it rubs off. This method does NOT require removal of the backs. @mbwilson111 colored hers with permanent marker.


It sounds like this is the best option for people's silver backed ZSN's.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 21, 2018)

SweetEars said:


> there is some incredible depth articulation with the silver/copper mixed cable on the Revonext QT2


That's because you have sweet ears. Some people would call them corn on the cobs though for their color, shape and texture.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> TinAudio T2 is excellent, so nothing wrong with preferring that over the ZSN!


Nothing wrong?! What about the extra $30USD price tag?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> when You have stock brownish/black ZSN cable (should measure higher impedance as I remember), then it might have difference with that Ag/Cu cable but when You already have clear/copper ZSN cable - no need to "upgrade" as it won`t make difference.


Do you think people need to upgrade to the silver plated ZSN cable if they already have the clean copper ZSN cable? I have a silver plated ZSN cable on the way already.


----------



## hakuzen (Dec 20, 2018)

measured resistance of some zsn stock cables (copper/brown/silver, mic/no-mic). added them to my list.
there is a big difference between copper and brown versions. and no-mic versions are way better than mic ones. mic versions resistance is so high that BA response might be altered noticeably.
(left..right..leftGround..rightGround, in mΩ)
(14) kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper color)....................415..425..445..595
(14) kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (copper color)..............395/423..*1011*/*1249*..401/494..647/711
(15) kz zsn spc 4c (silver color)................................607..630..653..648
(16) kz zsn stock spc 4c (brown color)......................961..701..825..771
(16) kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (brown color)................*2260*..*1161*..831..815

also added cable 52. impressive unexpected conductivity.
(52) spc 8c (gold,eid)................................................96..99..91..104
link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32881372793.html
(although i got last unit from hotfi, for only $20.. lucky..)


----------



## Slater (Dec 20, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> measured resistance of some zsn stock cables (copper/brown/silver, mic/no-mic). added them to my list.
> there is a big difference between copper and brown versions. and no-mic versions are way better than mic ones. mic versions resistance is so high that BA response might be altered noticeably.
> (left..right..leftGround..rightGround, in mΩ)
> (14) kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper color)....................415..425..445..595
> ...



Holy moly! Those mic cables have some really high resistance values!

Even the stock brown non-mic cable is surprisingly high.

There is definitely going to be a noticeable sonic difference between a purple ZSN non-mic cable (~0.4ohm) and a black or cyan ZSN mic cable (~0.8 to 2.2 ohms).

Nice work hakuzen!

BTW, has anyone tried UE type cables with the ZSN to see if they fit? I saw somewhere that they are the same size plugs...


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> Holy moly! Those mic cables have some really high resistance values!
> 
> Even the stock brown non-mic cable is surprisingly high.
> 
> ...


thanks.
yep, the difference in sound between purple and cyan zsn is due to the cable, uniquely and probably.
i don't own any UE cable to check, but i use regular 0.75/0.78mm 2-pins cables with zsn. they add some length, but are ok.


----------



## Slater (Dec 20, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> thanks.
> yep, the difference in sound between purple and cyan zsn is due to the cable, uniquely and probably.
> i don't own any UE cable to check, but i use regular 0.75/0.78mm 2-pins cables with zsn. they add some length, but are ok.



Well, I was using a regular TRN cable on the ZSN too. And then yesterday it was in a leather case in my jacket pocket, and when I pulled it out to use them, the 2-pin plugs had bent very badly at an angle.

I therefore no longer recommend using the ZSN with standard cables.

There’s nothing supporting the pins other than the pins themselves.

On a regular KZ/TRN/BQEYZ IEM, the jack is recessed into the body slightly, allowing the plastic shoulder of the 2-pin plug to have support and stability by the recess in the IEM body. But on a ZSN, the jack is raised, so there is no support or stability when using a non-ZSN cable.

I can provide an illustration of the concept if my explanation wasn’t clear.


----------



## CoiL (Dec 20, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> There doesn't look like there is any screws on the backplate so it'll be a big hassle.


There is no need for screws as ZST/ED12 backplates fit in snug&tight even without glue needed. If You didn`t see my post about ZST plates @ ZSN, then here it is:





I just pushed them in and they don`t come loose, no screws needed.


LaughMoreDaily said:


> Do you think people need to upgrade to the silver plated ZSN cable if they already have the clean copper ZSN cable? I have a silver plated ZSN cable on the way already.


Imo? Waste of money. Keep eye on hakuzen measurements post as there are better options, though, more pricey.


hakuzen said:


> measured resistance of some zsn stock cables (copper/brown/silver, mic/no-mic). added them to my list.
> there is a big difference between copper and brown versions. and no-mic versions are way better than mic ones. mic versions resistance is so high that BA response might be altered noticeably.
> (left..right..leftGround..rightGround, in mΩ)
> (14) kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper color)....................415..425..445..595
> ...



Thanks a lot @hakuzen  for such useful info @ chi-fi cables. Some of them are sometimes way overpriced when it comes to conductivity.
Wondering if my clear copper ZSN cable is more near to 0.4Ohm like Yours or rather 0.3Ohm like my cheap multimeter shows with 0.1 accuracy. Though, it won`t make difference to sound anyway imo.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> There is no need for screws as ZST/ED12 backplates fit in snug&tight even without glue needed. If You didn`t see my post about ZST plates @ ZSN, then here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is probably rounding up. The actual value is likely between 0.35 and 0.4ohms.

Also, I’m sure you already know this, but don’t forget to subtract the resistance value of the multimeter leads from the total reading. This will give you the true reading of just the IEM cable. It’s easy to forget lol


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Also, I’m sure you already know this, but don’t forget to subtract the resistance value of the multimeter leads from the total reading. This will give you the true reading of just the IEM cable. It’s easy to forget lol


Lol, ofc I know, I always subtract it (which is 0.3ohm with my cheap multimeter) and talk about real numbers.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 20, 2018)

hakuzen said:


> measured resistance of some zsn stock cables (copper/brown/silver, mic/no-mic). added them to my list.
> there is a big difference between copper and brown versions. and no-mic versions are way better than mic ones. mic versions resistance is so high that BA response might be altered noticeably.
> (left..right..leftGround..rightGround, in mΩ)
> (14) kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper color)....................415..425..445..595
> ...


I'm glad you had the time, measuring tools, and knowledge to bring us this information on which detachable wires/cables do make a significant difference on the earphones audio output, whether its a one or a multiple driver set-up!

...Way to coach us my friend! Cheers!


----------



## B9Scrambler (Dec 20, 2018)

Some AS06 impressions. Click THE LINK for a few images. Copied over from the blog with some mild edits.

"Right off the bat I was pleased to see that one of my recommendations levied at the AS10 and BA10 has been addressed; the packaging.

As you can see, it’s essentially the exact same thing, including the classy metal plaque, but smaller and less wasteful. It still makes the AS06 feel more special than lesser earphones in KZ’s lineup, you just don’t have to deal with an over sized and mostly empty box this time around. I say mostly empty because nothing about the accessories has changed and the AS06’s more compact packaging is more suitable to the quantity of items provided.

You get the usual Starline/Catbutt tips that I really like, a manual, and their new-ish braided copper cable. A nice carryover from the recent ZSN is the use of preformed ear guides instead of memory wire. Yes!! Not carried over from the ZSN is the 2-pin connectors which are the same as found on the AS10 and numerous other older KZs. I like the new connectors more, but the older ones work perfectly fine and there are already tons of after market cable options available for it, including various Bluetooth modules.

The shells are identical in shape and dimension to the AS10 with its black back half and clear face plate. Unlike a number of recent releases, KZ has chosen to hide the crossover beneath a metallic plate. Printed on this plate is ‘Balanced Armature’ cutting through a large 6. As much as I like the crossover design, I can’t deny this new look is pretty cool. Comfort is identical to the AS10 as well which for me is a good thing. Isolation seems to be even better, especially with the stock tips. Took them out for an hour long walk through the city last night to confirm.

Sound from this triple armature setup is more BA10 than AS10 to my ears, with the AS06 finding a nice balance between all frequencies. The AS10 has a darker, heavier sound than the AS06 with thicker mids and less treble emphasis. I’d still say the AS06 alls short of being a bright sounding earphone, but I know some out there will disagree. Bass is just as enticing as on the other two all-BA earphones in KZ’s lineup with great extension and sub-bass presence. I absolutely love the performance of this low frequency armature and am glad to see it return here. Sound stage is great, offering more space and air than the AS10. I’m not sure if the AS06 bests the AS10 in terms of imaging, layering and separation, but it’s certainly close enough to keep me happy."


----------



## SweetEars

hakuzen said:


> thanks.
> yep, the difference in sound between purple and cyan zsn is due to the cable, uniquely and probably.
> i don't own any UE cable to check, but i use regular 0.75/0.78mm 2-pins cables with zsn. they add some length, but are ok.



I noticed the difference . After changing the cables l


----------



## assassin10000

B9Scrambler said:


> Some AS06 impressions. Click THE LINK for a few images. Copied over from the blog with some mild edits.
> 
> "Right off the bat I was pleased to see that one of my recommendations levied at the AS10 and BA10 has been addressed; the packaging.
> 
> ...



How does the AS06 pair with un-amped mobile sources? Is it as revealing of the source as the AS10?


----------



## B9Scrambler

assassin10000 said:


> How does the AS06 pair with un-amped mobile sources? Is it as revealing of the source as the AS10?



I'll get back to you on that. Only used it through the Radsone ES100.


----------



## 1clearhead

B9Scrambler said:


> Some AS06 impressions. Click THE LINK for a few images. Copied over from the blog with some mild edits.
> 
> "Right off the bat I was pleased to see that one of my recommendations levied at the AS10 and BA10 has been addressed; the packaging.
> 
> ...


Nice job, B9Scrambler!

Question? Would you consider the AS06 similar to the Tinaudio T2 in terms of balance? And if so, which one would you consider brighter?

Forgive me if the questions are too premature and you need more time to burn them in...


Thanks in advance!  -Clear


----------



## B9Scrambler

1clearhead said:


> Nice job, B9Scrambler!
> 
> Question? Would you consider the AS06 similar to the Tinaudio T2 in terms of balance? And if so, which one would you consider brighter?
> 
> ...



Thanks! I'd have to listen to them back to back. Can really only say right now that the AS06 will be bassier. Assuming the T2 is brighter, but have to check to be sure.


----------



## 1clearhead

B9Scrambler said:


> Thanks! I'd have to listen to them back to back. Can really only say right now that the AS06 will be bassier. Assuming the T2 is brighter, but have to check to be sure.


Sounds good, thanks!


----------



## SybilLance

hakuzen said:


> measured resistance of some zsn stock cables (copper/brown/silver, mic/no-mic). added them to my list.
> there is a big difference between copper and brown versions. and no-mic versions are way better than mic ones. mic versions resistance is so high that BA response might be altered noticeably.
> (left..right..leftGround..rightGround, in mΩ)
> (14) kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper color)....................415..425..445..595
> ...





hakuzen said:


> thanks.
> yep, the difference in sound between purple and cyan zsn is due to the cable, uniquely and probably.
> i don't own any UE cable to check, but i use regular 0.75/0.78mm 2-pins cables with zsn. they add some length, but are ok.


Thank you so much for your work and for keeping it regularly updated, @hakuzen. I have actually begun to copy-paste your posts on this (and also your earlier posts on "Taming the ZS6") to my Notes only to find out that you also have your updated list. Lol!

By coincidence I was reading my notes regarding your DC resistance measurements because I was struck by the posts of @SweetEars, @ddmt and @blur.png which have the common complaint of harshness when listening with the ZSN. I wondered if, aside from physiology there might be a common cause as well, like reversed wiring or something inherent in the earphone or the cable itself. ddmt attached an FR graph of the ZSN with a (resonance?) spike at ~around 10KHz overlaid with that of the Sony MH755.

A Google search on "how DC resistance in headphone cables affect sound" led me to a head-fi Sound Science thread which I started reading until this post.

This is purely speculative but is it possible that what we hear as differences in the KZ upgrade cables are actually the results of the wide variances in their DC resistance that, with the added input of seemingly better aesthetics and seeming better quality suggested by the term "upgrade" are interpreted and output by our brains as a positive difference, i.e., better sound quality?

Just whiling my time and resting my painful ears after too much comparative listening between the ED16 and ZSN.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> There is no need for screws as ZST/ED12 backplates fit in snug&tight even without glue needed. If You didn`t see my post about ZST plates @ ZSN, then here it is:


Can I ask a question. When you put the ZST face plates on the ZSN did the sound stay the same?


----------



## KevDzn

hakuzen said:


> measured resistance of some zsn stock cables (copper/brown/silver, mic/no-mic). added them to my list.
> there is a big difference between copper and brown versions. and no-mic versions are way better than mic ones. mic versions resistance is so high that BA response might be altered noticeably.
> (left..right..leftGround..rightGround, in mΩ)
> (14) kz zsn stock spc 4c (copper color)....................415..425..445..595
> ...



Hopefully KZ read @hakuzen post and decide to sell the purple zsn stock copper cable separately.


----------



## hakuzen (Dec 21, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Thank you so much for your work and for keeping it regularly updated, @hakuzen. I have actually begun to copy-paste your posts on this (and also your earlier posts on "Taming the ZS6") to my Notes only to find out that you also have your updated list. Lol!
> 
> By coincidence I was reading my notes regarding your DC resistance measurements because I was struck by the posts of @SweetEars, @ddmt and @blur.png which have the common complaint of harshness when listening with the ZSN. I wondered if, aside from physiology there might be a common cause as well, like reversed wiring or something inherent in the earphone or the cable itself. ddmt attached an FR graph of the ZSN with a (resonance?) spike at ~around 10KHz overlaid with that of the Sony MH755.
> 
> ...


depending on how the crossover is implemented (together with nature of the BA drivers), impedance (and phase) of the iem is different, so the alteration when output impedance is high is also different.
for example, zs5 v1 highs are harsher, while zs6 highs are tamed.
considering this and usual kz behavior, i think they don't plan their cables to get any target sound alteration.
however, they deploy crappy cables intended (low quality materials and fast crafting), to save costs of budget iems. even more expensive iems from other brands come with cheap cables.
but in the case of stock zsn cable (copper color, no mic), it's a improvement over old stock cables. wish they keep on it for future models.
i'm waiting for the day they start tubing their drivers (more expensive crafting)..


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Can I ask a question. When you put the ZST face plates on the ZSN did the sound stay the same?


I already talked about that in this thread. No difference.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

KevDzn said:


> Hopefully KZ read @hakuzen post and decide to sell the purple zsn stock copper cable separately.


I wonder if the BA10 cable has been done? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...rade-Cable-KZ-2pin-Cable-For/32952899317.html


----------



## SybilLance

Really looking forward to Clear's and Scrambler's definitive/final thoughts and impressions of the CCA C10 and of the KZ AS06, respectively.

For their initial impressions:

Clear said the C10 at first listen is reminiscent of the KZ ZSN but in time assumes a very premium and mature sound signature with layers of precise details and no peaks, harshness or sibilance coming into play.

Scrambler said the AS06 sounds more BA10 than AS10 to his ears, with a nice balance among all frequencies, great extension and sub-bass presence; is comparatively brighter, and offering more space and air than the AS10; and close enough to it in terms of imaging, layering and separation to keep him happy.

The C10 is a 1DD + 4BA hybrid while the AS06 is a triple-BA affair.

Also waiting for comparisons between the two.

Presently both in-ears are selling for less than $28 US here at Shopee.ph.

Very exciting times!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 21, 2018)

Rob Brown says the TRN v80 is better than the KZ AS10. Your thoughts?



A drummers review:


----------



## Nimweth

KZ ZS4 in the house! Initial impressions are good. The tuning seems very good on the 30095 BA, even at this stage I prefer them to the ZST and ES3 which are similar DD+BA 30095 hybrids. They don't seem quite as V-shaped as the ZST and ES3. The fit and isolation are excellent and there's a new black braided cable which is much better than the ones on the ZST and ZS10. I will try my silver plated cable after a burn in (or should that be "break in"?) More to follow.


----------



## 129207

After having owned the ZS5 since its release, and being generally pleased with them, I recently jumped on the AS10 bandwagon. First impressions weren't great (I have been spoiled by more expensive IEMs, I guess) but now I appreciate them for what they are, and would recommend them to people looking for a fun bang-for-your-buck iem. Not quite sure I prefer them over the ZS5, though. That opinion might change after more time with the AS10. They do a lot of things right, for the money. 

Problem with KZ is that they release SO MANY PRODUCTS! How on earth can you keep up, without resorting to just buying them all? Which I won't do; I promise.  But now that they released newer models, I'm thinking "What if these sound better than the AS10? Why didn't I wait a few more weeks?" and "What about R&D? Are they just releasing random combinations of drivers and housing, without actually researching and finetuning them?" Etc.


----------



## blur.png

its finally out, the ZS7




for the price its a bit on the expensive side though, im going to wait for the first impressions before im buying it


----------



## Conest (Dec 21, 2018)

blur.png said:


> its finally out, the ZS7
> 
> for the price its a bit on the expensive side though, im going to wait for the first impressions before im buying it


Ohh myyyy...
Wait.. why are they not available in the official store ?


----------



## maxxevv

That's a pre-order sale. 

Its not officially available yet as far as a survey on Taobao suggests. Should be soon.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Negakinu said:


> After having owned the ZS5 since its release, and being generally pleased with them, I recently jumped on the AS10 bandwagon. First impressions weren't great but now I appreciate them for what they are, Not quite sure I prefer them over the ZS5, though. That opinion might change after more time with the AS10. They do a lot of things right, for the money.


Which version of ZS5 v1 or v2?


----------



## 129207

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which version of ZS5 v1 or v2?



No idea. I bought mine in June. How can I find out which one I have?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Negakinu said:


> No idea. I bought mine in June. How can I find out which one I have?


The v1 came out many months ago and has been discontinued. Can you guess which ones you got?


----------



## 129207

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The v1 came out many months ago and has been discontinued. Can you guess which ones you got?



Well, there's your answer then!


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It sounds like this is the best option for people's silver backed ZSN's.



I think the silver back with the purple ZSN is beautiful.  BTW, the back on the other two colors is not black it is a gunmetal color.  It looks great with the black ZSN because the black ZSN is not solid black it is translucent .  The one I colored was the gunmetal back on my cyan... I just wanted to emphasize the cyan color more so I used a cyan permanent marker on it... had to do the edges of the plate too... not just the top surface.  I just scribbled it on and then quickly and gently rubbed it with a soft paper towel to make it even.  I got a little on the cable connector.  A bit of alcohol on a q-tip should take that off.


----------



## SybilLance

mbwilson111 said:


> I think the silver back with the purple ZSN is beautiful.  BTW, the back on the other two colors is not black it is a gunmetal color.  It looks great with the black ZSN because the black ZSN is not solid black it is translucent .  The one I colored was the gunmetal back on my cyan... I just wanted to emphasize the cyan color more so I used a cyan permanent marker on it... had to do the edges of the plate too... not just the top surface.  I just scribbled it on and then quickly and gently rubbed it with a soft paper towel to make it even.  I got a little on the cable connector.  A bit of alcohol on a q-tip should take that off.


It looks beautiful.  And unique.


----------



## WildSeven

Just received these babies 2 days ago, ordered on 11.11 but due to Canada Post strike is been stuck forever.
Now finally I have them and been listening to them for the last 2 days, I can say the Purple/Silver is the one to go.

Cable is nicely done, just the cable alone would sell for $10~$15, I would say the fit surpasses all the KZ models up to date, it is very comfortable and seals good with a CP100 tip.
Metal back plate, flashy purple color and a nozzle with lips, at $20 I think KZ finally nailed it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 21, 2018)

WildSeven said:


> Now finally I have them (ZSN) and been listening to them for the last 2 days, I can say the Purple/Silver is the one to go.
> 
> Cable is nicely done, just the cable alone would sell for $10~$15, I would say the fit surpasses all the KZ models up to date, it is very comfortable and seals good with a CP100 tip.
> Metal back plate, flashy purple color and a nozzle with lips, at $20 I think KZ finally nailed it.


A nozzle with lips? Lol. What does it feel like when it kisses your ear? I just got my Purple/Silver in the mail today in Canada from Gearbest. I look forward to telling you my opinion as well.

What's so good about the Purple/Pink compared to your Black? Just the cable itself?

You say for $20CAN KZ nailed the ZSN, well I bought my ZS10 (which arrived today too) for $22.50USD. I wonder which one is a better deal? I'll let ya'll know soon.


----------



## WildSeven

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A nozzle with lips? Lol. What does it feel like when it kisses your ear? I just got my Purple/Silver in the mail today in Canada from Gearbest. I look forward to telling you my opinion as well.
> 
> What's so good about the Purple/Pink compared to your Black? Just the cable itself?
> 
> You say for $20CAN KZ nailed the ZSN, well I bought my ZS10 (which arrived today too) for $22.50USD. I wonder which one is a better deal? I'll let ya'll know soon.



Had the ZS10 for 9 months, is a fun sounding IEM with good bass. The ZSN is going to replace it, simply because it is a much better fit, sound wise the ZSN will suit more genre of music.


----------



## xinn47

SybilLance said:


> Really looking forward to Clear's and Scrambler's definitive/final thoughts and impressions of the CCA C10 and of the KZ AS06, respectively.
> 
> For their initial impressions:
> 
> ...



Same feeling mate, I have an itch upgrading from an ED16 to something else, even though it's pretty good already. I'm weighing in on the AS06, because it might be the more balanced beauty that I am longing for!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 21, 2018)

How do you know which ear piece the ZSN Purple cable goes in? There is no L or R anywhere (on the IEM). This is dumb,

PS: The connector is just on the back and ZSN HIFI is on the top?


----------



## blur.png

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you know which ear piece the ZSN Purple cable goes in? There is no L or R anywhere (on the IEM). This is dumb,


just guess it, put one in your ear and you should already know which one is which, then look at the cable, you should see the L & R on it, its difficult to see but its visible


----------



## assassin10000

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you know which ear piece the ZSN Purple cable goes in? There is no L or R anywhere (on the IEM). This is dumb,



If no markings, pick them up. The 'small/pointed' side is down and the connector faces forward. The nozzle tip should also be angled forward.

You can also set them next to each other in front of you with the face plates up towards the ceiling/sky, the large side pointed away and small side pointed towards you. The ear stems should point away from each other if left and right are on the correct sides, if they point towards each other swap them around.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

assassin10000 said:


> If no markings, pick them up. The 'small/pointed' side is down and the connector faces forward. The nozzle tip should also be angled forward.
> 
> You can also set them next to each other in front of you with the face plates up towards the ceiling/sky, the large side pointed away and small side pointed towards you. The ear stems should point away from each other if left and right are on the correct sides, if they point towards each other swap them around.


That second part of your words is confusing but the first part makes more sense.  I ended up doing it right myself, thanks for the help! <3


----------



## blur.png

i've decided, the ZSN is better with the stock tips compared to foam, the foam makes it muddy, it tames the highs just a bit but the sacrifice is too much.
using the stock tips its more detailed and brighter than foam but still, its "fun" but still too harsh for my taste, bass is more punchy & highs gets higher, this combination along with the intimate soundstage & loud nature of the earphone is too much for me too handle, i really want to like it, if the highs are tamed down just a bit & it has a better noise isolation it would be great IMO, maybe it needs the month long treatment (burn in) like the ZS6 to make it shine


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you know which ear piece the ZSN Purple cable goes in? There is no L or R anywhere (on the IEM). This is dumb,
> 
> PS: The connector is just on the back and ZSN HIFI is on the top?



Look in the top Left corner on this phoot for the guide on ZSN cable attachment (click for larger view):



See how the pointy part goes down?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

blur.png said:


> the ZSN is better with the stock tips compared to foam, using the stock tips its more detailed and brighter than foam but still, its "fun" but still too harsh for my taste, bass is more punchy & highs gets higher, this combination along with the intimate soundstage & loud nature of the earphone is too much for me too handle, i really want to like it, if the highs are tamed down just a bit & it has a better noise isolation it would be great IMO, maybe it needs the month long treatment (burn in) like the ZS6 to make it shine


You know what to do... Burn in! Burn in! Burn in! Do you like the TRN v80 better right at this moment?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Look in the top Left corner on this phoot for the guide on ZSN cable attachment (click for larger view):
> See how the pointy part goes down?


You're such a gentleman, Slater.  <3


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 22, 2018)

I must say the Purple ZSN is light years ahead of the ED16 but it's a bit too bright. Does that tame down after burn in?

The thing that sucks about the ED16 is the sound isn't "unique" and every album always sounds different, there's no in between where the ear phone manages to make them all sound similar. One album sounds higher, one sounds lower, etc.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

blur.png said:


> just guess it, put one in your ear and you should already know which one is which, then look at the cable, you should see the L & R on it, its difficult to see but its visible


Impossible to see. I even used a high powered flashlight that can be seen for city blocks and nothing. Where are the L's and R's supposed to be located on the ZSN?


----------



## blur.png (Dec 22, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You know what to do... Burn in! Burn in! Burn in! Do you like the TRN v80 better right at this moment?


V80 foam is better, smooths out the harshness, silicone has a brighter far highs (ZS6 silicone-like), both are still better than zsn right now, zsn vocals are too harsh for now


----------



## blur.png (Dec 22, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Impossible to see. I even used a high powered flashlight that can be seen for city blocks and nothing. Where are the L's and R's supposed to be located on the ZSN?


its facing outwards, not inwards when plugged in, view it from the pointy bit,  its kinda stupid on KZ side since transparent + barely visible words = confusion (the R&L are on the cable, not the iem)


----------



## voicemaster

blur.png said:


> V80 foam is better, smooths out the harshness, silicone has a brighter far highs (ZS6 silicone-like), both are still better than zsn right now, zsn vocals are too harsh for now



Can you post some of the songs you are listening? Especially the one you think the zsn sounds harsh.


----------



## assassin10000

I'd probably end up grabbing a red and blue sharpies to put dots on the inside face of the ZSN connector and then again on the cable connector. No more confusion in the future.


----------



## Slater (Dec 22, 2018)

assassin10000 said:


> I'd probably end up grabbing a red and blue sharpies to put dots on the inside face of the ZSN connector and then again on the cable connector. No more confusion in the future.



Another option is to just scratch a tiny L and R somewhere inconspicuous. You can use anything sharp - sewing needle, safety pin, thumbtack, etc.

Here’s what I did on the ZST:


----------



## Conest

Which one is better spinfit cp100 or cp145 ?
(any other suggestions are welcome too)


----------



## blur.png

voicemaster said:


> Can you post some of the songs you are listening? Especially the one you think the zsn sounds harsh.


my music taste might be crap but here's some song that i think the ZSN sounds harsh or too forwards compared to my other pairs (ZS6 & V80)




this _might_ be unfair since most of the songs are harsh by nature but this is what i listen soo...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Another option is to just scratch a tiny L and R somewhere inconspicuous. You can use anything sharp - sewing needle, safety pin, thumbtack, etc.
> 
> Here’s what I did on the ZST:


I think you need to show KZ this photo and tell them to get their labeling crap together.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 22, 2018)

After five minutes of listening to the ZSN I know why you guys are all gah-gah over it. You're a bunch of babies!  Hopefully, the ZSN brings more people over to Headfi and this thread.


----------



## blur.png

i bought a zsn for my friends birthday and he's confused where's the right & left pair and how to connect them since its his first iem, KZ really needs to start labeling them in the newer batches, imagine the confused first-timer


----------



## zozito (Dec 22, 2018)

Anyone with new KZ AS06 impressions?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

blur.png said:


> i've decided, the ZSN is better with the stock tips compared to foam, the foam makes it muddy, it tames the highs just a bit but the sacrifice is too much.
> using the stock tips its more detailed and brighter than foam but still, its "fun" but still too harsh for my taste, bass is more punchy & highs gets higher, this combination along with the intimate soundstage & loud nature of the earphone is too much for me too handle, i really want to like it, if the highs are tamed down just a bit & it has a better noise isolation it would be great IMO, maybe it needs the month long treatment (burn in) like the ZS6 to make it shine



I agree.  The stock tip is the best sounding tip I have used,  but it's to hard and with deep insertion,  hurts my ears.  

I tip rolled,  and decided to compromise on the Sony hybrids.  They are a soft comfortable, tip with a narrow bore and deep tube.  They seem to push the screen further away which aliviates some of the aggressiveness, and the narrow bore seems to help with the upper register a lil wincy tiny bit.  Compromise is that the bass isn't as good.  Not a compromise that I would personally choose to withstand,  but comfort is number one for me.  With the Sony hybrid tips I can rock them all day 6+hours at work with no problems.  As comfy as ZST to me now.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I agree.  The stock tip is the best sounding tip I have used,  but it's to hard and with deep insertion,  hurts my ears.
> 
> I tip rolled,  and decided to compromise on the Sony hybrids.  They are a soft comfortable, tip with a narrow bore and deep tube.  They seem to push the screen further away which aliviates some of the aggressiveness, and the narrow bore seems to help with the upper register a lil wincy tiny bit.  Compromise is that the bass isn't as good.  Not a compromise that I would personally choose to withstand,  but comfort is number one for me.  With the Sony hybrid tips I can rock them all day 6+hours at work with no problems.  As comfy as ZST to me now.



I love those Sony style tips. I wish others made tips using that same soft gummy silicone, but with a wider bore.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I love those Sony style tips. I wish others made tips using that same soft gummy silicone, but with a wider bore.


Those jvc spiral dot tips are usually my go too for soft gummy wide bore tips. My other go to is the sennheiser double flange tips.  Super soft and wide bore.  Very comfortable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 22, 2018)

blur.png said:


> i bought a zsn for my friends birthday and he's confused where's the right & left pair and how to connect them since its his first iem, KZ really needs to start labeling them in the newer batches, imagine the confused first-timer


Because there is no labeling on the body I have a fear that people are going to think, "These are Schiit. I'm throwing them out!"


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 22, 2018)

delete


----------



## blur.png (Dec 22, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Because there is no labeling on the body I have a fear that people are going to think, "These are Schiit. I'm throwing them out!"


exactly, especially for those who are used to earbuds & cable-down earphone, they will just go "the ***k is this? why is it worn weird" or if they wired it the wrong way (almost impossible to see L & R on the ZSN cable) "why does this sound reverse-stereo"       

a bit out of topic but one thing that grinds my gear is one of my other friend attitude that keep saying "your earphone looks like a screwing hearing aid & it looks like s**t" while wearing his JBL/Miniso/Xiaomi or whatever he's using that day which sounds muddy & bass bloated than what i'm wearing, makes me want to smack him hard


----------



## blur.png

speaking of tips, my favorite are from rock zircons, V80's and the ZSN stock tips, way better than their starline tips which hurts my ear after a while


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 22, 2018)

I bought the ZS4 last night because I love the fit of the ZS3. I shouldn't have... (Own: EDR1, ED7, ED9, ED16, ES4, ATR, IE7, ZSN, ZS10, etc.)

KZ are hitting gold with the ES4 and ZSN. However, I've never listened to my EDR1. The IE7 is a waste of time and should have never been made, lol. They were created at a time when they still had non-removeable cables and weren't sure how to move forward and win the IEM game.

ZS10: I feel itchiness with the stock ZS10 tips, I assume that's an allergy to something used within them? I also don't particularly like the fit like everyone else has said. It's awkward like someone is sticking their fingers in your ears and music is coming out of the tips. I hear harshness in the ZS10 and hope that tones down after burn in. People said they felt the same way (harshness) with the ZSN but I don't feel that way. I think the ZSN has a way more unique sound signature than the ZS10 and should be a first option to buying then the ZS10. The ZS10 does sound more HIFI than the ZSN but the fit kills the ZS10 and most people probably won't like it for that alone.

Don't Recommend: KZ ED7, ED9, ED16, IE7, HDR1 (haven't heard mine yet but the newer options are most likely better), ZS10 (the fit/size ruins it, it's that bad!).

Recommend: KZ ATR, ES4, ZSN, ZS10 (for short listening sessions only).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 22, 2018)

delete - Why can't we delete our own posts?


----------



## B9Scrambler

A KZ in all but name.


​


----------



## CoiL

B9Scrambler said:


> A KZ in all but name.
> 
> ​


I wish ES4 had such shell shape. Pity, I quite liked ES4 but after long listening session it somewhy starts to pain my ears littlebit.


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> I wish ES4 had such shell shape. Pity, I quite liked ES4 but after long listening session it somewhy starts to pain my ears littlebit.



The shell is quite nice. Like a stubby ZSR and with a normal sized nozzle to boot.


----------



## mbwilson111

blur.png said:


> speaking of tips, my favorite are from rock zircons, V80's and the ZSN stock tips, way better than their starline tips which hurts my ear after a while



I would like to find out how to get more of the tips that came installed on the ZSN.  I did end up with one extra in medium because my husband gave me the medium off his ZSN (he wears large so had to use something else... a generic type with the red core).  I am using that extra set on my Audbos P4.  It seems perfect for it...so far.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 22, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I would like to find out how to get more of the tips that came installed on the ZSN.  I did end up with one extra in medium because my husband gave me the medium off his ZSN (he wears large so had to use something else... a generic type with the red core).  I am using that extra set on my Audbos P4.  It seems perfect for it...so far.



The smooth ones?

Maybe these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...Earphone-Ear-pads-Strengthen/32799780449.html


Or these might be close:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...arphone-Silicone-Eartips-Ear/32816647504.html


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 22, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I would like to find out how to get more of the tips that came installed on the ZSN.


Take a flight to China, do some research on what factories KZ uses, walk to the door, show them the tips and say, "I need a million of these."


----------



## TechnoidFR

Just received my new zs10

Right iem is defective, my old zs10 have problem on my left ah ah. I'm lucky I can use them finally !


----------



## Slater

TechnoidFR said:


> Just received my new zs10
> 
> Right iem is defective, my old zs10 have problem on my left ah ah. I'm lucky I can use them finally !



Good crawlity control lol


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 22, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Take a flight to China, do some research on what factories KZ uses, walk to the door, show them the tips and say, "I need a million of these."


Haha!...Easier said than done!  

...I'll run out of money before attempting to do something like that!


----------



## nxnje

A store i can't mention here has the KZ ZS7 for like 36-39$.

What do you think about it?
Is it a store that has for this selling period or it's just a hype strategy?


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> A store i can't mention here has the KZ ZS7 for like 36-39$.
> 
> What do you think about it?
> Is it a store that has for this selling period or it's just a hype strategy?



It's not out yet. Pretty sure the few stores that have listings are just pre-sales.


----------



## voicemaster

blur.png said:


> my music taste might be crap but here's some song that i think the ZSN sounds harsh or too forwards compared to my other pairs (ZS6 & V80)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Listened to them with ZSN and ZS6, I can see why you might think the ZSN sounds harsh, but it wasn't harsh with mine. The ZS6 actually has a minor sibilance on the last song while none on the ZSN. Although, comparing the two, the ZSN has more emphasize on electric guitar sounds which can makes it sound overwhelming, but never harsh in my experience. The ZS6 is just sibilance on every SSss word that came out from the song, but not that bad. I think it's more coincidence that the music that you like happens to really emphasize the spike on the treble region on the ZSN.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> Just received my new zs10
> 
> Right iem is defective, my old zs10 have problem on my left ah ah. I'm lucky I can use them finally !


I wish I never ordered mine.  Too heavy/weird fit. ZSN is KING!


----------



## maxxevv

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I wish I never ordered mine.  Too heavy/weird fit. ZSN is KING!



The ZS10's have a bulbous body and short nozzles. So will not fit very well with a lot of people. 

To get around that, use eartips 1 size larger.  Also, it sounds best with a little amping (as they can sound a little anemic with low power sources) and wide bore tips. 

So far, I found that ball-type foam tips make them sound their best.  I enjoy them very much set up that way.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

maxxevv said:


> So far, I found that ball-type foam tips make them sound their best.  I enjoy them very much set up that way.


Where do you buy ball type foams? Thanks.


----------



## HAMS

Still waiting for my purple zsn. Wondering if you put additional damper on nozzle/tips can tame the 4-6k peaks or make it worse. Also anyone doing bass mod?


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Where do you buy ball type foams? Thanks.









https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32605250267.html

Made my red ZS6 _sing.  _


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 23, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32605250267.html
> 
> Made my red ZS6 _sing.  _


I'm pretty sure it was the music you were listening to that made you sing. 

What's so good about ball foams?


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm pretty sure it was the music you were listening to that made you sing.
> 
> What's so good about ball foams?


Now you're asking me...

Ok, here goes...

With the balls the ZS6, the erstwhile Wild Thing, is transformed...



 Wild Thing!
You make my heart sing!
You make a-everything Grooovy!
C'mon...Wild Thing!  

Make sure you twiddle them balls before insertion. 

Oh! And thank hakuzen for his work on Taming the ZS6 (vs. ZS5 v1).


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> It's not out yet. Pretty sure the few stores that have listings are just pre-sales.


I'm really curious about the zs7.. i want that out so i can see people reviews and decide if to buy zs7 or zs6 again.



voicemaster said:


> Listened to them with ZSN and ZS6, I can see why you might think the ZSN sounds harsh, but it wasn't harsh with mine. The ZS6 actually has a minor sibilance on the last song while none on the ZSN. Although, comparing the two, the ZSN has more emphasize on electric guitar sounds which can makes it sound overwhelming, but never harsh in my experience. The ZS6 is just sibilance on every SSss word that came out from the song, but not that bad. I think it's more coincidence that the music that you like happens to really emphasize the spike on the treble region on the ZSN.


Zs6 wasn't too sibilant imho.
I got headache the first days but then i did some tip rolling and continuous listening in order to make a little burn in.
After 2-3 days they didn't sound sibilant with the right tips.
Some SsSs were naturals because i had very bright masterings on some tracks but nothing really annoying.
I've heard some iems which did even worse in the past.


----------



## kennyhack (Dec 23, 2018)

Sorry, I wanted to remove my reply but can't find how to do it.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> Good crawlity control lol



My  first zs10 has falling a lot. So 1 day 1ba dropped.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I wish I never ordered mine.  Too heavy/weird fit. ZSN is KING!



But this sound ! I orderp than zsn for metal and elevtro


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 23, 2018)

maxxevv said:


> The ZS10's have a bulbous body and short nozzles. So will not fit very well with a lot of people.
> 
> To get around that, use eartips 1 size larger.  Also, it sounds best with a little amping (as they can sound a little anemic with low power sources) and wide bore tips.
> 
> So far, I found that ball-type foam tips make them sound their best.  I enjoy them very much set up that way.


Great advice!!
Thank you.
Indeed, short and wide tips made a huge difference between small but persistent discomfort and a nice fit (almost as good as AS10)
I used generic replacement tips (" Ear Tips Earbuds for Sennheiser IE Series, CX Series, CXC Series, CXL Series, OCX Series, and MM Series,"), which I got from Amazon.
They are also the tips that Large are 14 mm and not 13, which works the best for me.

Now I'll listen more to ZS10 and compare with AS10, ZSN and ZSA.


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> Great advice!!
> Thank you.
> Indeed, short and wide tips made a huge difference between small but persistent discomfort and a nice fit (almost as good as AS10)
> I used generic replacement tips (" Ear Tips Earbuds for Sennheiser IE Series, CX Series, CXC Series, CXL Series, OCX Series, and MM Series,"), which I got from Amazon.
> ...



Zs10 is very particular but very fun
Great big bass but good tuning I love them but I hate when there is too bass. Here I love it, voice are not too warm. Love this tuning!


----------



## PhonoPhi

TechnoidFR said:


> Zs10 is very particular but very fun
> Great big bass but good tuning I love them but I hate when there is too bass. Here I love it, voice are not too warm. Love this tuning!


The tuning is indeed special.
For the bass - BA of AS10 is my current absolute favourite so far.

But now that I can listen comfortably to ZS10 - I will spend more time with it and experiment with amplification to try to bring more treble, as it was suggested in this thread.


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> The tuning is indeed special.
> For the bass - BA of AS10 is my current absolute favourite so far.
> 
> But now that I can listen comfortably to ZS10 - I will spend more time with it and experiment with amplification to try to bring more treble, as it was suggested in this thread.



As10 is cool too

But for metal and electro and very fun and musical iem, it my preferred !

One of my preferred iem


----------



## PhonoPhi

TechnoidFR said:


> As10 is cool too
> 
> But for metal and electro and very fun and musical iem, it my preferred !
> 
> One of my preferred iem


I can imagine.
I listen to classical music, and cellos (one of the hardest instruments to reproduce with IEMs, especially with the hybrid ones) are the best to my ears.


----------



## CYoung234

maxxevv said:


> The ZS10's have a bulbous body and short nozzles. So will not fit very well with a lot of people.
> 
> To get around that, use eartips 1 size larger.  Also, it sounds best with a little amping (as they can sound a little anemic with low power sources) and wide bore tips.
> 
> So far, I found that ball-type foam tips make them sound their best.  I enjoy them very much set up that way.



I agree with you on the wide bore part, but for me, the Radio Shack Auvio tips work the best on the ZS10. But, as you and other posters note, the ZS10 is pretty big and they do have short nozzles. So, your head and ear shape will have a big effect on what will work the best.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> My  first zs10 has falling a lot. So 1 day 1ba dropped. But this sound ! I orderp than zsn for metal and elevtro


You're right, the ZS10 sound good, especially at the $30 I paid. I will consider it one of my faves.


----------



## Makahl (Dec 23, 2018)

I was watching this AS10 review:


I'd say it's a complete review overall: measurements, a sound demo through MiniDSP ears, and subjective impressions.

The conclusion is that AS10 sounds off (tbf I think he said it more than 10x) and 1 driver can give you more juice than a bunch of BAs depending on how it's tuned. I even agree with that statement. But... looking at 3:19 you can see the cable is wired out of phase which explains all the adjectives he's been using along with this video. 

Edit: He answered me on youtube and said it was recorded correctly but the video was a mistake due to attaching it quickly. I'm sorry for the fuss! The video still good then


----------



## jeromeaparis (Dec 23, 2018)

Makahl said:


> I was watching this AS10 review:
> 
> 
> I'd say it's a complete review overall: measurements, a sound demo through MiniDSP ears, and subjective impressions.
> ...





I do agree with you (I have a green AS10, & I find it very capable)  except for one thing: his AS10 in the video are not "out of phase"
They are wrongly connected, yes, but both sides in the same way, as the angeled connectors are pointed both forwards instead of backwards.
This should not influence the sound. Out of phase is: one connected in a way the other the opposite.


----------



## jibberish

I quite like the ZS10, granted I got my pair for $22.50 on black Friday, which definitely boosts my enthusiasm for them I think. They took a decent period of brain burn-in, I think in large part because they sound very different to the other IEMs in my current rotation (Tin T2 and Ez D4), and I had to go through a ton of different tips before I settled on something that made the lower mids seem less distant, some shallow, wide bore silicone tips left over from some other IEM purchase did the trick. There's good bass extension without being bloated when you get a good seal. 

The overall tuning kind of reminds me of something along the lines of a refined ZS4 - much more detail, bass that is more proportionate to mids/highs, and far better layering/separation of elements. They sound solid from my phone, but do benefit from an amp.

I am fortunate that the fit doesn't cause me problems, but I can see how the large housings could cause issues for people. I do despise the stock cable though, the same one that shipped with the ZSR that has the horrible memory wire that murders the tops of my ears. I stripped off the wire, but then the left/right cables above the strain relief tangle far too easily. It's worth getting a replacement for it.


----------



## Makahl

jeromeaparis said:


> I do agree with you (I have a green AS10, & I find it very capable)  except for one thing: his AS10 in the video are not "out of phase"
> They are wrongly connected, yes, but both sides in the same way, as the angeled connectors are pointed both forwards instead of backwards.
> *This should not influence the sound.* Out of phase is: one connected in a way the other the opposite.


 
Can you test it yourself and report whether there are changes or not? You're essentially inverting the ground and positive therefore all the chain of the cross-over circuit and BAs, I can't see how it wouldn't change anything. I do remember I've got problems regardings wearing the cable upside-down like in the video which resulted in the IEM sounding muffled, dull, etc until I figured out that polarity was the problem.


----------



## Superluc

Superluc said:


> I feel like the ES4 try to go too deep inside, and too straight. My ears didn't like that.
> The ZS5/6 category fit better on my ears, maybe because of the less long and a more angled nozzle.


In the end i have try the ZSN and, well, the fit is so DAMN GOOD. 

Sound wise, maybe the more smoothest sound of the stock ES4 it's a better sidegrade to the ZS6, but my ears sadly reject her shape. 

I think i now stay with the ZSN because of their great comfort ( and looking  ) even if they need some EQ and i'm still not that sure where do the changes, in comparison with the ZS6.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 23, 2018)

Makahl said:


> Can you test it yourself and report whether there are changes or not? You're essentially inverting the ground and positive therefore all the chain of the cross-over circuit and BAs, I can't see how it wouldn't change anything. I do remember I've got problems regardings wearing the cable upside-down like in the video which resulted in the IEM sounding muffled, dull, etc until I figured out that polarity was the problem.


Here is an interesting thread on polarity.


----------



## Migou67

Just want to share a song where for me the voices are beautifully restitued by the ZSN


----------



## SybilLance

jeromeaparis said:


> I do agree with you (I have a green AS10, & I find it very capable)  except for one thing: his AS10 in the video are not "out of phase"
> They are wrongly connected, yes, but both sides in the same way, as the angeled connectors are pointed both forwards instead of backwards.
> This should not influence the sound. Out of phase is: one connected in a way the other the opposite.





Makahl said:


> Can you test it yourself and report whether there are changes or not? You're essentially inverting the ground and positive therefore all the chain of the cross-over circuit and BAs, I can't see how it wouldn't change anything. I do remember I've got problems regardings wearing the cable upside-down like in the video which resulted in the IEM sounding muffled, dull, etc until I figured out that polarity was the problem.





PhonoPhi said:


> Here is an interesting thread on polarity.



Oh okay. I've just read that thread because I was wondering if my green ZS6, which sounds markedly different from the older red one, might have polarity problems. I still have no idea if polarity is the cause, but as for the concept, I get it...I think..?

My understanding:

There's actually a difference between phase and polarity.

Polarity is reversing the electrical signal, as when you switch or invert the + and - in a wire. As it is simply a reversal of the signal it would not be time or frequency dependent.

Phase is a result of changing a signal in time, and could be caused by reactive components in the signal path.

Simply reversing the polarity would not affect the phase; its graph or waveform would show a mirror image of the original signal along an axis. Shifting phase along the same axis is just like introducing a time delay; with the right amount of delay its waveform could be 180 degrees out of phase with the original waveform such that it would be identical to a reversal of polarity.

Hmm...tools of the audio engineer.

I thought all along they were one and the same; that is, if the internal wiring of my baffling green ZS6 were reversed, it would then be out of phase.

Anyway, I hope I understand it correctly. If not, well I'm open to anything just to ascertain that there's nothing wrong with the green ZS6 and that it's just tuned differently.


----------



## HungryPanda

Migou67 said:


> Just want to share a song where for me the voices are beautifully restitued by the ZSN


Terrific song, I will listen to it with ZSN tomorrow, I have the Rose Masya earbuds in my ears right now and cannot take them out


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 23, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Oh okay. I've just read that thread because I was wondering if my green ZS6, which sounds markedly different from the older red one, might have polarity problems. I still have no idea if polarity is the cause, but as for the concept, I get it...I think..?
> 
> My understanding:
> 
> ...



You definitely get it 

Thinking simpler (for pragmatic purposes) - cables can be connected only two different ways, thus changing polarity (roughly equivalent of being in an opposite phase) is the only option to experiment with - and definitely worth to try to check if something is wrong.

In multidriver IEMd, some drivers can be possibly connected incorrectly, which would be harder to rectify.


----------



## crabdog

Migou67 said:


> Just want to share a song where for me the voices are beautifully restitued by the ZSN



Wow, that brings back some memories. Will have to get a copy of that album again.


----------



## maxxevv

jeromeaparis said:


> I do agree with you (I have a green AS10, & I find it very capable)  except for one thing: his AS10 in the video are not "out of phase"
> They are wrongly connected, yes, but both sides in the same way, as the angeled connectors are pointed both forwards instead of backwards.
> This should not influence the sound. Out of phase is: one connected in a way the other the opposite.



Connecting in reverse polarity will affect the sound, badly!  
Especially so if its a multi-driver setup with complex crossovers.  So in short, the review conclusions on its sound are invalid at best, complete BS if I should push it further.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 24, 2018)

delete


----------



## shockdoc

Still no impressions of the AS06? Really enjoying my 13 dollar ZSN's.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zpolt on YouTube says KZ should discontinue the crappy KZ BA10. What do you think?


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Zpolt on YouTube says KZ should discontinue the crappy KZ BA10. What do you think?



Can't comment as I don't have kz ba10.


----------



## HungryPanda

I like the ba10 and thought it was a daring design that does not feel uncomfortable to me. I need to listen to it more as I have been wearing earbuds a lot recently


----------



## B9Scrambler

shockdoc said:


> Still no impressions of the AS06? Really enjoying my 13 dollar ZSN's.



Guess only mine so far: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/12/20/kz-as06-preview/


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> I like the ba10 and thought it was a daring design that does not feel uncomfortable to me. I need to listen to it more as I have been wearing earbuds a lot recently


I think you need to listen to it more.  He was talking mainly about the sound quality. He said some 3 driver earphones sound much better. Maybe that's why you're not listening to it?


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 25, 2018)

HungryPanda said:


> I like the ba10 and thought it was a daring design that does not feel uncomfortable to me. I need to listen to it more as *I have been wearing earbuds a lot recently*


Hey HungryPanda, 

What would you say is your "top 3" earbuds that you love listening to?...and did you ever get to try the MEMT T5 earbud?

You can "PM" me some of your favorites if you like...thanks in advance!


-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

Here's my final impressions on the *CCA C10*

Click on link below...
 Post #20895

Cheers! 


-Clear


----------



## CthulhuNinja (Dec 25, 2018)

Got my Purple KZ ZSN last week, burned them for 100+ hours on mix of burn-in noises, Jean Michelle Jarre, Metallica, Spyrogira, AC/DC, slapped m/s JVC Spiral dots on them, connected with FiioX3III as DAC on MAC pro + Art Pepper New York album on DSF....and yes if definitely not endgame then a very solid high midgame. Treble is tamed and not harsh at all, lows are godly, mids with no complaints. Untill my KOSS 75Xs from Massdrop arrive(takes them longer than KZs  )


----------



## Nimweth

Sometimes in our search for perfection and a balanced neutral sound we forget the purpose of this hobby, that is, to enjoy music. I have been listening to the ZS4 for a few days now and they've had about 100 hours burn in. They are not neutral by any means having a powerful bass and a bit of mid bass bleed. The treble is bright. They are definitely V-shaped, however I have been enjoying my music more these last few days than I have for a while! For such a low price these are an excellent buy! Part of the reason for this is the excellent fit, comfort and superb isolation. Get these right and you're half way there! I can't recommend these highly enough. Full review to come after the holidays.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 25, 2018)

B9Scrambler said:


> Guess only mine so far: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/12/20/kz-as06-preview/






 

If the AS06 sounds anything like the BA10 then it should do very well. Very well, indeed!
.......and KZ's newly designed cradle for the BA's is an interesting and innovative way to channel the sound (foregoing the individual tubes solution). Looking forward to hearing the AS06 and CCA C10. They'll both be added to my collection.

Thanks B9 and thank you Clear.


Triple-driver with KZ's great low frequency BA
AS06 ($42) 

4+1
CCA C10 ($37) 

4+1 
ZS7 ($46) 

Grand Total
only $125

You'll hear no complaints from this Head-Fi member. 





LaughMoreDaily said:


> Zpolt on YouTube says KZ should discontinue the crappy KZ BA10.



Listening to my BA10 this very moment.

Hmmm...

The rich detail in the percussion and instruments:



The rich detail and density of the vocals:



The transparency:



The separation and excellent imaging:



THAT BASS!!!     LIKE A BOSS!!!





Clean, clear and bangin' bass that DOES NOT interfere with the transparency of the midrange or treble....even on tracks mastered with a bass-heavy footprint. .

Timbre is accurate and tenuous!






LaughMoreDaily said:


> Zpolt on YouTube says KZ should discontinue the crappy KZ BA10. What do you think?




My thoughts.....


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 25, 2018)

Today I've had an experience that placed my views on this whole listening-to-music-through-various-headphones hobby in stark perspective relief. And changed them.

Suffice it to say that I now believe I should make my year-end resolution perpetual: no more headphones above $30.

Fortunately the CCA C10 and KZ AS06—cousins, both—are available in our part of the world for less.

The former is praised by 1clearhead; the latter potentially holds a similar distinction where B9Scrambler is concerned.

Together these two in-ears would usher in new promises for the year ahead, I feel it.

Be back in a day or 2.

Holiday Cheers & Best Regards!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

My Zishan Z1 doesn't seem to output music very well because when I listen to music videos online with the same ear phones the audio is outstanding vs just good via listening directly through my player with the earphones. Does that just mean my computer has a better DAC or...?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> Today I've had an experience that placed my views on this whole listening-to-music-through-various-headphones hobby in stark perspective relief. And changed them.
> 
> Suffice it to say that I now believe I should my make year-end resolution perpetual: no more headphones above $30.



Why? I'm trying to do the opposite after buying 50 pairs of $5 - $15 earphones. Lol.


----------



## crabdog

Early impressions of the AS06 have me feeling like this:


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 25, 2018)

crabdog said:


> Early impressions of the AS06 have me feeling like this:


That's not saying much. You're just bragging about your babyface! 

Can someone tell me what's the deal with Cyan (vs. Black)? Why is it so popular?


----------



## crabdog

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's not saying much. You're just bragging about your babyface!


For now, I'll just say the ZSN is shaking in its boots.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 25, 2018)

crabdog said:


> For now, I'll just say the ZSN is shaking in its boots.


I think you mean booties.


----------



## PhonoPhi

crabdog said:


> For now, I'll just say the ZSN is shaking in its boots.


This sounds incredibly emotional.
A comparison with AS10, B400 and similar all-BAs would be great for the factual information.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 25, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why? I'm trying to do the opposite after buying 50 pairs of $5 - $15 earphones. Lol.


It is a bit opposite with me.
I thought anything below $50 MRSP may not be worth buying.
KZ changed it for me.
AS10 is my favourite IEM by far.
But I could be happy with ZSN, and even with ZSA.
My limit now is about $5 per driver plus up to $10 for nice shells.
But I am ready to make some exceptions for KZ BA16


----------



## crabdog

PhonoPhi said:


> This sounds incredibly emotional.
> A comparison with AS10, B400 and similar all-BAs would be great for the factual information.


And they will come in time but it won't be today. I'm really impressed so far though. I think it may even be better than both the AS10 and ba10 but haven't listened to them side by side yet so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 25, 2018)

crabdog said:


> And they will come in time but it won't be today. I'm really impressed so far though. I think it may even be better than both the AS10 and ba10 but haven't listened to them side by side yet so take that with a grain of salt.


Sounds great, thank you!
I've ordered my AS06 few seconds ago


----------



## HungryPanda

1clearhead said:


> Hey HungryPanda,
> 
> What would you say is your "top 3" earbuds that you love listening to?...and did you ever get to try the MEMT T5 earbud?
> 
> ...


Never did get to hear the Memt 5 but my favourite earbuds are Ourart Ti7, K's k600 and Toneking TO600


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Never did get to hear the Memt 5 but my favourite earbuds are Ourart Ti7, K's k600 and Toneking TO600



I remember you borrowing my MEMT T5 (pod) when I first got it and you said it sounded good


----------



## HungryPanda

Ah I remember now it was pretty good


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Grab your ZSN's and enjoy this absolute BAMF Christmas song. Merry Christmas everybody.


----------



## 1clearhead

HungryPanda said:


> Never did get to hear the Memt 5 but my favourite earbuds are Ourart Ti7, K's k600 and Toneking TO600


Thanks! I'll look into them...


----------



## HungryPanda

Tonight I have been enjoying the BGVP DX3s. Great earbuds too


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> Grab your ZSN's and enjoy this absolute BAMF Christmas song. Merry Christmas everybody.


Sorry, I wasn't too impressed with that Bad Religion video. I was also hearing a lot of fuzz from my computer's DAC. I don't have anything better to post... so Happy Holidays!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 26, 2018)

The purple ZSN with the copper cable sure is a dynamic performer! It's my best IEM to date (still waiting for ZSA/AS10). The memory "wire" works perfectly. The copper cable is gorgeous. ZSN has a strong feminine side so it makes your ears feel like they're a model walking down a fashion show's catwalk. The sound quality and sound signature is superb and easy to listen to. This is the perfect "lay on the counter" to grab and go IEM. No need to worry if it's too heavy or going to fall out like the ZS10, etc. A "perfect" performer! Happy Holidays, KZ and Head-Fi!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Sorry, I wasn't too impressed with that Bad Religion video. I was also hearing a lot of fuzz from my computer's DAC. I don't have anything better to post... so Happy Holidays!


Get that fixed ASAP. Fuzzy DACs can lead to cranial bleeding. 
Anyway, I have been listening to BQEYZ BQ3 nonstop since sunday morning when I got them. They are a superior IEM to ZSN in most ways. ZSNs tight bass and forward mids and overall hyper aggressive "balls to the wall" presentation make them the best choice for me to listen to Punk. I prefer them in everyway to the BQ3 for Punk. Also Bad Religion has been my favorite band since I first heard Suffer in 1988, and their production has always been second to none. 

Love ZSN for reals. Its PRA(punk rock approved)certified.


----------



## HungryPanda

Bad Religion are a great band, here is another of my favourites.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

HungryPanda said:


> Bad Religion are a great band, here is another of my favourites.



Nice. I like that.  It's very The Levellers meet The Clash. At least that song. Will listen to more later. Best album?


----------



## HungryPanda

Vengeance will always be my favourite


----------



## trollin863

Hey I haven’t posted in a few years to this thread. But a few years ago I bought the zs3, zs1 (the brass ring model), ed4, and some bamboo ed7s which quickly became my favorites.

I haven’t followed KZs latest models do they make any Bluetooth earphones now? I know about a year and a half ago the moxpad x90 was highly recommended was thinking of getting those but does kz have anything better? I need a wireless earphone for phone... Really any nice inexpensive chifi type Bluetooth earphones is what I’d be interested in. Thank you, happy holidays!!!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

trollin863 said:


> Hey I haven’t posted in a few years to this thread. But a few years ago I bought the zs3, zs1 (the brass ring model), ed4, and some bamboo ed7s which quickly became my favorites.
> 
> I haven’t followed KZs latest models do they make any Bluetooth earphones now? I know about a year and a half ago the moxpad x90 was highly recommended was thinking of getting those but does kz have anything better?


For that advice, I can answer but it'll cost you a ZS1.


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 26, 2018)

trollin863 said:


> Hey I haven’t posted in a few years to this thread. But a few years ago I bought the zs3, zs1 (the brass ring model), ed4, and some bamboo ed7s which quickly became my favorites.
> 
> I haven’t followed KZs latest models do they make any Bluetooth earphones now? I know about a year and a half ago the moxpad x90 was highly recommended was thinking of getting those but does kz have anything better? I need a wireless earphone for phone... Really any nice inexpensive chifi type Bluetooth earphones is what I’d be interested in. Thank you, happy holidays!!!



Welcome back!

Looking at your previous KZ purchases and considering your favorite of the bunch (ED7) I'd say that your best starting point would be the ZS3E ($11 @ GearBest or $17 @ Amazon) - which has an improved 8mm dynamic driver - and get yourself a good Bluetooth cable. None of the KZ hybrids have a warm sound signature like the ED7 so a warm single dynamic is probably your best bet.




 



If you would like to try one of KZ's hybrids then I highly recommend the ZSR ($20). It is almost unanimously praised and is probably the best place to start if you're thinking about getting your feet wet.



 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/

Both models have detachable cables and I'm sure someone on the thread will advise you on which Bluetooth cable is best to use with either.

Again, welcome back.

p.s. - if you do ever decide to sell/trade your ZS1(v1) then PM me. It's one KZ that I don't have but would like to have.


----------



## trollin863 (Dec 26, 2018)

DocHoliday said:


> Welcome back!
> 
> Looking at your previous KZ purchases and considering your favorite of the bunch (ED7) I'd say that your best starting point would be the ZS3E ($11 @ GearBest or $17 @ Amazon) - which has an improved 8mm dynamic driver - and get yourself a good Bluetooth cable. None of the KZ hybrids have a warm sound signature like the ED7 so a warm single dynamic is probably your best bet.
> 
> ...



Thanks for thorough information about the newer kz models.  I’m not nearly as knowledgeable with earphones as you guys so I rely on you for accurate reviews and insights. Anyway, since my OG zs3s come with a detachable cable could I use a “bluetooth cable” with it? Last time I was here in 2017 I don’t remember kz’s having the ability to use a Bluetooth cable. That would be awesome though for all of kz’s models with detachable cable to be able to use them with Bluetooth with the iPhone 8 as apple decided to not include the 3.5mm jack which is beyond ridiculous!!! 

Also I checked from ebay the seller where I got the brass ring zs1 from and he seems to no longer sell zs1s. However here’s a link to the seller on ebay: https://m.ebay.com/seller?sid=chinabluetoothproducts

I got 1 pair in the summer of 2017 from him and it was really hard even a year and a half ago to find the coveted brass ring model. The guy actually sent me the crappy screen covered nozzle version first and I was really angry but he made it right reimbursing the return shipping on the v2 model and sent me the brass ring version a couple weeks later. Was a hassle but it was worth it as the zs1s are awesome. I just messaged every seller on ebay if they had the brass ring version took a couple weeks and suppose I got lucky. That seller may not officially sell them on ebay anymore but he may still have access to some. It seemed like in 2017 that he got his zs1s from a warehouse in China cause he was like so sorry for my mistake I ordered the new version from warehouse instead of the old version so maybe there’s some old stock in China laying around even now. Worth a shot if you wanted to message him...  

So suppose someone needs to direct me to the kz Bluetooth replacement cable... and I might pick up the zsr and zs3e as well. Guessing these are better choices than the zs5?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

trollin863 said:


> Thanks for thorough information about the newer kz models.  I’m not nearly as knowledgeable with earphones as you guys so I rely on you for accurate reviews and insights. Anyway, since my OG zs3s come with a detachable cable could I use a “bluetooth cable” with it? Last time I was here in 2017 I don’t remember kz’s having the ability to use a Bluetooth cable. That would be awesome though for all of kz’s models with detachable cable to be able to use them with Bluetooth with the iPhone 8 as apple decided to not include the 3.5mm jack which is beyond ridiculous!!!
> 
> Also I checked from ebay the seller where I got the brass ring zs1 from and he seems to no longer sell zs1s. However here’s a link to the seller on ebay: https://m.ebay.com/seller?sid=chinabluetoothproducts
> 
> ...


Dont know if these interest you but I can definitely recommend them. TRN BT20. Comfortable, Easy to Pair, Solid connection, and around 6-7 hours on a charge. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...c7-49d8-bd61-be16dfb526d0&transAbTest=ae803_3


----------



## bedlamite

Wasn't feeling the purple/pink ZSNs so I got the cyans with the ZSN upgrade cable from the KZ store on Aliexpress. Really nice upgrade. I have the older upgrade cable with the metal ear guides and those metal pieces with never not be awful.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 26, 2018)

bedlamite said:


> Wasn't feeling the purple/pink ZSNs so I got the cyans with the ZSN upgrade cable from the KZ store on Aliexpress. Really nice upgrade. I have the older upgrade cable with the metal ear guides and those metal pieces with never not be awful.


Someone told me on here that the ZSN silver plated cable was a waste of money. I'm assuming because of how good the purple zsn copper cable is. What do you think?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DocHoliday said:


> Looking at your previous KZ purchases and considering your favorite of the bunch (ED7)


Finding nozzle tips for the ED7 is a bitch as they're tiny little buggers. Maybe I need 4mm tips?


----------



## trollin863

BadReligionPunk said:


> Dont know if these interest you but I can definitely recommend them. TRN BT20. Comfortable, Easy to Pair, Solid connection, and around 6-7 hours on a charge. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...c7-49d8-bd61-be16dfb526d0&transAbTest=ae803_3



Can I use this Bluetooth cable with the original zs3? It looks like similar connectors?

Something that is confusing is there is 0.75 and 0.78 mm sizes that are very similar in the same AliExpress listing you shared. 

Hopefully theres a thread or online resource that gives you compatible kz models with this Bluetooth cable for future reference? Perhaps the specs of the kz zs3 tell you the size of the connector whether it’s 0.75 or 0.78? I don’t mind getting the zsr or zs3e to use with this cable but if it’ll work with my OG zs3 I’d rather just do that as I’ve only used it a handful of times since I liked the bamboo ed7s so much!!!

I have another question also...

Are the zsrs and zs3es better than the zs5s?


Thanks


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 27, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Finding nozzle tips for the ED7 is a bitch as they're tiny little buggers. Maybe I need 4mm tips?



Silicones with a 3mm collar work best for the tiny-lipped ED7. 




 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/




trollin863 said:


> Anyway, since my OG zs3s come with a detachable cable could I use a “bluetooth cable” with it? Last time I was here in 2017 I don’t remember kz’s having the ability to use a Bluetooth cable. That would be awesome though for all of kz’s models with detachable cable to be able to use them with Bluetooth with the iPhone 8 as apple decided to not include the 3.5mm jack which is beyond ridiculous!!!
> 
> So suppose someone needs to direct me to the kz Bluetooth replacement cable... and I might pick up the zsr and zs3e as well. Guessing these are better choices than the zs5?



I believe that TRN and KZ Bluetooth cables will work on all KZ in-ears that are equipped with "detachable" cables. Slater, Hungry Panda and a few others will have more useful information but according to many posts on this thread the TRN models seem to offer the best solution.




trollin863 said:


> ... and I might pick up the zsr and zs3e as well. Guessing these are better choices than the zs5?



The ZS5 situation is a repeat of the ZS1 situation. 

Early ZS1 models (version 1) have the brass ring nozzle and all subsequent models (version 2) have mesh screens and NO brass rings. Early ZS5 models (version 1) have one balanced armature in the nozzle and one balanced armature in the main housing cavity. All newer ZS5 models (version 2) have both balanced armatures set in the nozzle and NO balanced armature in the housing cavity. 

The ZS5(v1) and ZS5(v2) sound different. Just as the ZS1(v1) is highly sought after the ZS5(v1) is highly sought after because it sounds incredibly good for a set of $35 in-ears when properly amped with a low output impedance source. In my never-to-be humble opinion the unique vent design found on the ZS5 contributes to its airy presentation and I do hope that KZ employs this unique feature on a future model - be it hybrid, single dynamic or dual dynamic.

Hint.......hint....... KZ, if you're reading this!


Pay particular attention to the time stamps of the ZS5 reviews here as you pour through them. To better explain the differences between the v1 and v2  I included KZ's promotional images in my review but you'll get a wider sampling of the ZS5's strengths and weaknesses by going through all of the reviews. 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-zs5.22479/

Finally, do a search for the "Slater Mod" for your ZS3 because the modified ZS3 sound signature may appeal to you. My ZS3(v1) - no foam in the nozzle - sounds better then all ZS3(v2) models which were shipped with said foam in the nozzles. 

Hmmm.... 

Noticing a pattern here.




trollin863 said:


> Are the zsrs and zs3es better than the zs5s?
> 
> 
> Thanks



"Better" is highly subjective. Only a handful of us enjoy the ED7 so one can't paint with too broad a brush when making general statements. That said, knowing that you enjoy the ED7 sound signature I highly recommend the ZSR. You could pick up a ZS5(v2) and temporarily kill one of the BAs in the nozzle but I can't promise it will sound close to the ZS5(v1). The impedance for the ZS5(v1) is 4.8Ω and the ZS5(v2) is rated 16Ω not to mention the fact that the combination of balanced armatures are different (2 X 30095 in the v2 versus one midrange 1205 BA and one 30095 BA in the v1). See my review for further details.

ZS5(v2)


 


ZS5(v1)


 


Also, the ES4 might be worth looking into since you enjoy the ED7. THE ES4 sound signature became just as controversial as the ED7 sound signature. Both models are "highly" dependent on finding eartips that MUST tame the mid-bass in order to allow for more definition in the lower-mids. Both the ED7 and ES4 can sound mediocre at best with poorly matched eartips.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-es4.23181/ 

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Hangrui Earphone Store is asking me to give immediate five-star feedback for the KZ ZSA I still haven't received from them. In the same e-mail they say if I haven't gotten them past sixty days they will send me new ones. Sounds pretty sketchy to me.


----------



## chi-fi mel

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Someone told me on here that the ZSN silver plated cable was a waste of money. I'm assuming because of how good the purple zsn copper cable is. What do you think?


I tried the silver cable on my ZSN for a week and had to give up. I was unable to get a proper seal despite spending a week trying, so I'd say your friend was correct. When I switched to the stock copper cable I was surprised that it corrected the fit problem. The ZSN has now replaced the AS10 as my daily driver because it's the sound signature I'm looking for. It may not have more bass, but it's a richer bass throughout the entire low end. I'm amazed at what KZ is offering for under 20 bucks. The first KZ I ever bought was the ED9 and that seemed like incredible value at that time, and the EDR2/1 for 3 or 4 bucks is nutty value, and the sound quality of the ZSE punches miles above it's price. The ZSN joins the list of best bang for the buck products from KZ and although other makes sometimes offer exceptional value I can't name anything else that quite equals the value of the four IEM's I mentioned.


----------



## voicemaster

Does anyone knowledgeable about bluetooth can confirm this for me. I am playing a live music video on VLC using my galaxy note 9 with my TRN bt20 and I noticed a slight delay between the video and the sound, then I tried youtube with the same live music video and it sync just fine between video and audio. Anyone else with TRN bt20 can confirm it?


----------



## voicemaster

chi-fi mel said:


> I tried the silver cable on my ZSN for a week and had to give up. I was unable to get a proper seal despite spending a week trying, so I'd say your friend was correct. When I switched to the stock copper cable I was surprised that it corrected the fit problem. The ZSN has now replaced the AS10 as my daily driver because it's the sound signature I'm looking for. It may not have more bass, but it's a richer bass throughout the entire low end. I'm amazed at what KZ is offering for under 20 bucks. The first KZ I ever bought was the ED9 and that seemed like incredible value at that time, and the EDR2/1 for 3 or 4 bucks is nutty value, and the sound quality of the ZSE punches miles above it's price. The ZSN joins the list of best bang for the buck products from KZ and although other makes sometimes offer exceptional value I can't name anything else that quite equals the value of the four IEM's I mentioned.



Yes, AS10 might have more punch in the overall bass, but I feel more energy in the lower bass extension with ZSN.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 27, 2018)

chi-fi mel said:


> I tried the silver cable on my ZSN for a week and had to give up. I was unable to get a proper seal despite spending a week trying. The ZSN has now replaced the AS10 as my daily driver because it's the sound signature I'm looking for. It may not have more bass, but it's a richer bass throughout the entire low end. I'm amazed at what KZ is offering for under 20 bucks. The sound quality of the ZSE punches miles above it's price..


Don't you think its weird how KZ made a silver plated cable for the ZSN and it doesn't fit it... or did you try and use the non-ZSN silver plated cable on it... I look forward to getting my AS10 soon to see if I feel the same about the ZSN. I have 2 ZSNs, one coming in the mail.  I haven't heard many people talk about the ZSE. Maybe its not as good as you say...lol. (People were wrapped up in their ZS3 and ZSTs).

I already have AS10, ZSN, ZSA, and ES4 coming to me in the mail so I am pretty sure I wont be buying another. Time to retire from this forum after I already own 10+ of them... or just to talk and give my thoughts on helping newbies find the right model without spending $150+USD like I have,


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Don't you think its weird how KZ made a silver plated cable for the ZSN and it doesn't fit it... or did you try and use the non-ZSN silver plated cable on it... I look forward to getting my AS10 soon to see if I feel the same about the ZSN. I have 2 ZSNs, one coming in the mail.  I haven't heard many people talk about the ZSE. Maybe its not as good as you say...lol. (People were wrapped up in their ZS3 and ZSTs).
> 
> I already have AS10, ZSN, ZSA, and ES4 coming to me in the mail so I am pretty sure I wont be buying another. Time to retire from this forum after I already own 10+ of them... or just to talk and give my thoughts on helping newbies find the right model without spending $150+USD like I have,



U haven't tried the ZS7 yet


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Don't you think its weird how KZ made a silver plated cable for the ZSN and it doesn't fit it... or did you try and use the non-ZSN silver plated cable on it... I look forward to getting my AS10 soon to see if I feel the same about the ZSN. I have 2 ZSNs, one coming in the mail.  I haven't heard many people talk about the ZSE. Maybe its not as good as you say...lol. (People were wrapped up in their ZS3 and ZSTs).
> 
> I already have AS10, ZSN, ZSA, and ES4 coming to me in the mail so I am pretty sure I wont be buying another. Time to retire from this forum after I already own 10+ of them... or just to talk and give my thoughts on helping newbies find the right model without spending $150+USD like I have,


I think ZSN is asking for a companion.  C10 will you marry me?...I'll be the perfect mate!


----------



## TechnoidFR

voicemaster said:


> U haven't tried the ZS7 yet



Must received mine zs7 in few days by **** amazon seller 
And as06 is blocked in GB for the moment...
2KZ to beginning this new year


----------



## HAMS (Dec 27, 2018)

trollin863 said:


> Can I use this Bluetooth cable with the original zs3? It looks like similar connectors?
> 
> Something that is confusing is there is 0.75 and 0.78 mm sizes that are very similar in the same AliExpress listing you shared.
> 
> ...


You should use BT20 with angled 2 pin type. Zs3 straight 2 pin would not work. You can but it's not ergonomically designed for straight type 2 pin Iem.


----------



## gbrgbr

KZ ZSA vs ZSR :
ZSR fits my ears like a glove. ZSA not so well, and tends to pop out a bit sometimes.

Horizontal :


 

Slight angle :


----------



## SybilLance

Hola everyone! Back after 2 days of long-overdue rest & recuperation.


Recovered quickly enough the moment the hubby sent me a screenshot of what he ordered for me from Shopee.ph last 25th:


As shown the AS06 is currently selling here for $27.98. The price was further lowered with the use of a Christmas Day promo code and shipping discount voucher. At the current exchange rate the final amount is ~ $26.65 US. When the COD order was made that was just $26.52.

My $30 Earphone Resolution is holding steady with another potentially exceptional KZ in-ear.

I won't say I cannot wait till it arrives; I have patience, see.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gbrgbr said:


> KZ ZSA vs ZSR :
> ZSR fits my ears like a glove. ZSA not so well, and tends to pop out a bit sometimes.


That green ZSR looks sexy even though I'm not sure why green/cyan is such a popular color. I like blue. 

PS: I heard the ZSR sounds like a ED16? Is that true?


----------



## bedlamite

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Someone told me on here that the ZSN silver plated cable was a waste of money. I'm assuming because of how good the purple zsn copper cable is. What do you think?


I own the cyan colorway with the darker cable, not the silver purples, so I've no idea how the lighter cable with the SPs sound. From posts in this thread it sounds like the lighter cable does have a more forward presentation with toned down bass, so in that respect the silver cable would indeed be a waste of money (although it is just 8 bucks). The darker cable that comes with my cyans is bassier with a touch less clarity, moving to the silver cable is a clear upgrade for vocals and treble response. Again, 8 bucks, so why not. We're not talking 100-dollar Silver Dragon cables here, so I'm much more inclined to experiment with KZ cable upgrades since they're so cheap.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 27, 2018)

I didn't realize they had the same body as the ZS10. Not a buy for me then.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 27, 2018)

bedlamite said:


> I own the cyan colorway with the darker cable, not the silver purples, so I've no idea how the lighter cable with the SPs sound. From posts in this thread it sounds like the lighter cable does have a more forward presentation with toned down bass, so in that respect the silver cable would indeed be a waste of money (although it is just 8 bucks). The darker cable that comes with my cyans is bassier with a touch less clarity, moving to the silver cable is a clear upgrade for vocals and treble response.




Is the silver plated ZSN cable the same tonality etc as the copper purple ZSN cable and that's why it's a waste of money? You seem to know if this is true or not without owning it.

So if someone buys it, its more for the looks?


----------



## Superluc

chi-fi mel said:


> I tried the silver cable on my ZSN for a week and had to give up. I was unable to get a proper seal despite spending a week trying


It seem like you have tried the older silver cable with the memory metal cable on it, not the specific one for the ZSN.


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> I think ZSN is asking for a companion.  C10 will... be the perfect mate!


Hey! Thanks for this, Clear. I think I'll borrow it to sell the C10 to _my_ mate.


----------



## bedlamite (Dec 27, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the silver plated ZSN cable the same tonality etc as the copper purple ZSN cable and that's why it's a waste of money? You seem to know if this is true or not without owning it.
> 
> So if someone buys it, its more for the looks?


Like I just said, there have been discussions in this thread that mentioned the differences between the 2 stock cables. Guys in here have purchased different ZSNs and made comparisons...I forgot exactly who though.

Until I listen to the lighter cable, I won't be able to tell you if switching cables will just be for aesthetics. I can tell you that the darker cable does sound different from the silver one. Even if somebody does switch up cables purely for aesthetics, hey...8 bucks.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I didn't realize they had the same body as the ZS10. Not a buy for me then.




Its not the same as ZS10. It shares AS10 body.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> Its not the same as ZS10. It shares AS10 body.


I must have misheard things...  Thanks for clarifying about the AS06's sexy body.


----------



## jeromeaparis

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That green ZSR looks sexy even though I'm not sure why green/cyan is such a popular color. I like blue.
> 
> PS: I heard the ZSR sounds like a ED16? Is that true?



I have both, I find them very different:
ZSR have very strong bass & sub (even more than ZS6), slightly recessed voices, rather sibillant trebles, I do like its bass much.
ED16 has smaller size, more sub than bass, that do not bleed on mediums, clear voices not recessed, more details than ZSR, trebles softer,
I preffer ED16 because it gives a more detailed sound
For me, both are improved with the KZ thin silver plated cables


----------



## CthulhuNinja

jeromeaparis said:


> I have both, I find them very different:
> ZSR have very strong bass & sub (even more than ZS6), slightly recessed voices, rather sibillant trebles, I do like its bass much.
> ED16 has smaller size, more sub than bass, that do not bleed on mediums, clear voices not recessed, more details than ZSR, trebles softer,
> I preffer ED16 because it gives a more detailed sound
> For me, both are improved with the KZ thin silver plated cables



You think like this  (Sorry for poor pic quality)


----------



## Wiljen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Someone told me on here that the ZSN silver plated cable was a waste of money. I'm assuming because of how good the purple zsn copper cable is. What do you think?



This is a great way to start grenades flying as two camps exist: 
Those who swear cables can be a huge game changer 
and 
Those who claim that cables causing any change is impossible.   

Regardless of where your truth lies, you will find those who are quick to tell you are wrong and others just as quick to defend you.   Good luck.


----------



## CoiL

Still waiting for comparison/impressions about ZS7... AS06 seems no-go for me.

Anyway, guys&girls, before spending around 100$ or above for 3-4 different KZ`s, I recommend You seriously to think about saving and getting something else - Moondrop Kanas Pro, IT01S, DM6, Anew U1, IT01 etc.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 27, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Still waiting for comparison/impressions about ZS7... AS06 seems no-go for me.
> 
> Anyway, guys&girls, before spending around 100$ or above for 3-4 different KZ`s, I recommend You seriously to think about saving and getting something else - Moondrop Kanas Pro, IT01S, DM6, Anew U1, IT01 etc.


Why is the AS06 a no go? Is it because of the advice in the next sentence? Why didn't you tell me this months ago? I have 10+ KZ's now.

The Moondrop Kanas Pro is $180USD, The Ibasso IT01 is $340CAN, The S is the newest version? The BGVP DM6 is $200USD. Why would I spend that much? Some of us aren't rich. 

My Zishan Z3 DAP was only $50 USD so those would be four times the cost. I like the KZ's for the affordability. My KZ AS10 was $44USD/$60CAN. That's more affordable than $200USD/$275CAN

Are the more expensive models going to really knock my ears socks off that much?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Wiljen said:


> This is a great way to start grenades flying as two camps exist:
> Those who swear cables can be a huge game changer
> and
> Those who claim that cables causing any change is impossible.
> ...


I bought a bunch of $10 cables and so far my favourite is the KZ 8 core silver plated cable. The TRN 8 core cable is okay but I have a feeling it's not as good. My current gold version doesn't sound as good... (just arrived, no break in).


----------



## Wiljen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I bought a bunch of $10 cables and so far my favourite is the KZ 8 core silver plated cable. The TRN 8 core cable is okay but I have a feeling it's not as good. My current gold version doesn't sound as good... (just arrived, no break in).



Ok, I'm really not sure you can argue cable break in/ burn in is a thing - that is stretching the possible a bit.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Wiljen said:


> Ok, I'm really not sure you can argue cable break in/ burn in is a thing - that is stretching the possible a bit.


Ok ok, I give! The new TRN 8 core cables aren't as good as the KZ silver plated 8 core cable to my ears.  Then again, I think the Skunk one was on par or better... but I don't know. KZ always puts out high quality stuff. TRN... not so much.


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> Still waiting for comparison/impressions about ZS7... AS06 seems no-go for me.
> 
> Anyway, guys&girls, before spending around 100$ or above for 3-4 different KZ`s, I recommend You seriously to think about saving and getting something else - Moondrop Kanas Pro, IT01S, DM6, Anew U1, IT01 etc.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why is the AS06 a no go? Is it because of the advice in the next sentence? Why didn't you tell me this months ago? I have 10+ KZ's now.
> 
> The Moondrop Kanas Pro is $180USD, The Ibasso IT01 is $340CAN, The S is the newest version? The BGVP DM6 is $200USD. Why would I spend that much? Some of us aren't rich.
> 
> ...


No offense nor disrespect but since there seems to be a subtext of a higher level of sound quality or at least more listening enjoyment at a higher price, how about buying a full-size over-ear instead? An open-back planar magnetic like the HiFiMAN HE-400i is a very good alternative for critical listening with a greater latitude for music appreciation at a current reasonable price of $219 on Amazon. It was even sold for less during the Black Friday sale.

For me a considerable part of the allure of, and enthusiasm engendered by, KZ and other "budget" earphones is the sense of wonder and delight in discovering something that could reproduce my collection of recorded music with a remarkable semblance of fidelity considering its hitherto unknown, or humble origins or price.

It's like taking a leisurely stroll at the seashore and stumbling upon a pearl among the pebbles  and shells and bits of coral. No pressure, simple pleasure. That's what happened to me when I first got the ATE.


----------



## Conest (Dec 27, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> For me a considerable part of the allure of, and enthusiasm engendered by, KZ and other "budget" earphones is the sense of wonder and delight in discovering something that could reproduce my collection of recorded music with a remarkable semblance of fidelity considering its hitherto unknown, or humble origins or price.
> 
> It's like taking a leisurely stroll at the seashore and stumbling upon a pearl among the pebbles  and shells and bits of coral. No pressure, simple pleasure. That's what happened to me when I first got the ATE.


wow..


----------



## PhonoPhi

Wiljen said:


> This is a great way to start grenades flying as two camps exist:
> Those who swear cables can be a huge game changer
> and
> Those who claim that cables causing any change is impossible.
> ...


Since original KZ cables have about 1 Ohm or even higher resistance, it is harder not to feel some difference.

The more subtle arguments out there are about that nice thicker gold plating affecting the very aura of music


----------



## Conest

So.. TechManZ preferred AS06s over AS10s..


----------



## eclein

Doc I love my BA10’s, I read where somone said it should be discontinued or whatever....... I hope the next Multi BA from kz takes the BA10 as baseline and goes up from there. The BA10 looks odd to some and hard to get a good fit to more but the sound is a joy everytime I hear it.....putting them in ear now...


----------



## darmanastartes

Wiljen said:


> This is a great way to start grenades flying as two camps exist:
> Those who swear cables can be a huge game changer
> and
> Those who claim that cables causing any change is impossible.
> ...


I thought we had established the difference was caused by vent differences and/or significant variations in impedance between ZSN cables.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 28, 2018)

eclein said:


> I love my BA10’s, I read where somone said it should be discontinued or whatever....... I hope the next Multi BA from kz takes the BA10 as baseline and goes up from there. The BA10 looks odd to some and hard to get a good fit to more but the sound is a joy everytime I hear it.....putting them in ear now...


Zpolt doesn't like the BA10. I kind of trust his opinion because of his good quality videos, but of course he could be wrong... I'm not too interested in paying $75USD on a pair of KZ BA10's or any headphones... well, that's a lie, I may do that on full sized headphones. I bought my AS10's for $44USD. Is the extra price really worth it?

Maybe I'm not an audiophile. I just want something that sounds good, has a lowish price and will last a very long time. I think KZ's fit that description to a T. Some of them. The KZ ZSN blows away my ZS3, ZST, ES4 (maybe) and ED16... I had to waste money on those to figure that out. I could have easily did the same on a $200 IEM.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> So.. TechManZ preferred AS06s over AS10s..



I didn't realize that. I'll watch his videos on those two again. Then again, I don't know much about him so I take that with a grain of sale. I've also heard neither.


----------



## 1clearhead

@LaughMoreDaily

Just go for the CCA C10 "ten driver hybrid" and keep it within the family!  ...It's only around $30 US dollars!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 28, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> No offense nor disrespect but since there seems to be a subtext of a higher level of sound quality or at least more listening enjoyment at a higher price, how about buying a full-size over-ear instead?



I have about eight budget full sized headphones here... Under $50 USD including the Superflux 668B which I won't get rid of, but I want to sell the rest. IEM's are quite magical. I like their ease of use, portability, financial value vs sound quality, beauty,etc. They really are just plain magical if you find the right one. So far the ZS10 and ZSN are that way for me. I only spent $50 for both of them. Considering I spend $20+ a day on food I think I finally found the most magical way of listening to music. No more ear buds or headphones for me.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> Just go for the CCA C10 "ten driver hybrid" and keep it within the family!  ...It's only around $30 US dollars!


What about the AS06? I have a ZS10 already and AS10 on the way. Is buying more earphones even worth it?


----------



## Conest

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I didn't realize that. I'll watch his videos on those two again. Then again, I don't know much about him so I take that with a grain of sale. I've also heard neither.


He said.. something about his Dap not powering enough those 5 drivers though.. but he still preferred AS06..sooo...


----------



## voicemaster

Conest said:


> He said.. something about his Dap not powering enough those 5 drivers though.. but he still preferred AS06..sooo...



Lol not enough power to drive 5 BA drivers? No BA drivers need that much power -.-


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What about the AS06? I have a ZS10 already and AS10 on the way. Is buying more earphones even worth it?


The C10 sound different from the 3 you mentioned above, plus is a level up from the ZSN and will definitely bring you a mature and more premium sound signature.


----------



## Conest

voicemaster said:


> Lol not enough power to drive 5 BA drivers? No BA drivers need that much power -.-


Yeah.. i dont like his reviews much..
Hyped about AS06s though


----------



## purplesun

It's been 2 years since I last looked at a new IEM. I just ordered myself a KSN & AS06. And just like 2 year ago, when I first got myself KZ-ATE, I am expecting good things again this time! 
Anything else from KZ for less than US$50 that I should check out? My knowledge of KZ range after late 2016 is a total blank. Slight V-shaped sound preferred.
Thanks.

PS: And a big hello to those I chatted with back in the day!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> The C10 sound different from the 3 you mentioned above, plus is a level up from the ZSN and will definitely bring you a mature and more premium sound signature.


That sounds like a CCA advertisement.  So do you wish you didn't buy the ZSN or do they still hold a spot close to your heart? It sounds like the C10 is a step up from ZSN but not from ZS10/AS10?


----------



## 1clearhead

I love both the ZSN and the C10! ZSN for fun while C10 is for a more serious listening audition.


----------



## trollin863 (Dec 28, 2018)

I need to know if the original zs3 takes a 0.75mm Cable or 0.78mm cable as there are two options to choose from for the Bluetooth cable on AliExpress.

I think I remember it being 0.75 but I just want to confirm before buying.

Thanks


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

trollin863 said:


> I need to know if the original zs3 takes a 0.75mm Cable or 0.78mm cable as there are two options to choose from for the Bluetooth cable on AliExpress. I think I remember it being 0.75 but I just want to confirm before buying.


Are you trollin'? As far as I know all KZ's cables are 0.75


----------



## trollin863

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you trollin'? As far as I know all KZ's cables are 0.75



No, lol for real I didn’t know. I appreciate you guys help and wouldn’t waste your time.


----------



## kookaudio

1clearhead said:


> The C10 sound different from the 3 you mentioned above, plus is a level up from the ZSN and will definitely bring you a mature and more premium sound signature.


So you definitely think C10 is the #1 now...??


----------



## SybilLance

Conest said:


> So.. TechManZ preferred AS06s over AS10s..


I Love Millie Bobby Brown and Stranger Things!
Great gif!


----------



## kookaudio

purplesun said:


> It's been 2 years since I last looked at a new IEM. I just ordered myself a KSN & AS06. And just like 2 year ago, when I first got myself KZ-ATE, I am expecting good things again this time!
> Anything else from KZ for less than US$50 that I should check out? My knowledge of KZ range after late 2016 is a total blank. Slight V-shaped sound preferred.
> Thanks.
> 
> PS: And a big hello to those I chatted with back in the day!


MEE Audio M6 pro 2nd generation, if you like the sound, that it is actually not exactly laid back


----------



## Conest

SybilLance said:


> I Love Millie Bobby Brown and Stranger Things!
> Great gif!


Yeahh.. same here


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 28, 2018)

trollin863 said:


> I need to know if the original zs3 takes a 0.75mm Cable or 0.78mm cable as there are two options to choose from for the Bluetooth cable on AliExpress.
> 
> I think I remember it being 0.75 but I just want to confirm before buying.
> 
> Thanks


0.75mm. As far as I know all KZ earphones with detachable cables have this standard for their connection. Although for a time when the ZS5 and ZS6 first came out there were some SPC upgrade cables being sold as KZ-compatible that had 0.78 mm pins. I bought 2 of those for my ZS5 v1 and red ZS6. It's been said the extra .03 mm will stretch the pin sockets and make them loose, but I cannot comment on this since so far I haven't had the need or reason to take them off. Well, that creeping green Fungus amungus on the ZS6 cable may be a cause for replacement, one of these days.


----------



## purplesun

kookaudio said:


> MEE Audio M6 pro 2nd generation, if you like the sound, that it is actually not exactly laid back



Just looked at the website; described like an old Trinity basic IEM (I know they went belly up). Will put this one further down the road. Am hoping my new KSN will be "good enough" or even a cheaper KZ models. I use wired IEMs solely for plane trips (with rough handling), and use earbuds/wireless IEMs rest of the other times. So have to spread the money around sensibly


----------



## SybilLance

purplesun said:


> It's been 2 years since I last looked at a new IEM. I just ordered myself a KSN & AS06. And just like 2 year ago, when I first got myself KZ-ATE, I am expecting good things again this time!
> Anything else from KZ for less than US$50 that I should check out? My knowledge of KZ range after late 2016 is a total blank. Slight V-shaped sound preferred.
> Thanks.
> 
> PS: And a big hello to those I chatted with back in the day!


A bigger hello from a new member!

Hmm...you've already a ZSN and AS06 on the way. I don't know about slight V-shaped sound but add to those 2 the ZS6 with round foam tips and I dare say you're covered for 2017 and 2018.

Oh, and there's a KZ cousin, the CCA C10. @1clearhead highly recommends this.


----------



## purplesun

SybilLance said:


> Hmm...you've already a ZSN and AS06 on the way. I don't know about slight V-shaped sound but add to those 2 the ZS6 with round foam tips and I dare say you're covered for 2017 and 2018.


Yes, been lurking for past week or so. Seems like ZSN is very well liked. And AS06 was more of a hopeful punt for me.
How old is the ZS6? I think I may have that, if it came out early 2017. Or maybe I have it confused with something else.

As for being covered for next 2 year with just 3 or 4 IEMs; I know all too well that I will end up with a candy jar worth of new iems (and new earbuds) in a few months time. I have several candy jars from just my 2016 sojourn in Headfi. At least, this time, I had 2 years to save up for this year's buying


----------



## Conest

If anyone wanna try... I think Xiaomi Hybrid Pro 2 is really good..
Comfort + Sound


----------



## trollin863

SybilLance said:


> 0.75mm. As far as I know all KZ earphones with detachable cables have this standard for their connection. Although for a time when the ZS5 and ZS6 first came out there were some SPC upgrade cables being sold as KZ-compatible that had 0.78 mm pins. I bought 2 of those for my ZS5 v1 and red ZS6. It's been said the extra .03 mm will stretch the pin sockets and make them loose, but I cannot comment on this since so far I haven't had the need or reason to take them off. Well, that creeping green Fungus amungus on the ZS6 cable may be a cause for replacement, one of these days.



Are you aware of any sellers that still have the zs5 v1 with the brass ring in stock? About a year and a half ago I decided I wanted the zs1 with the brass ring and man was that hard to find!!! I was hoping the zs5 v1 was easier to obtain. 

What I did before to find the brass ring zs1 was message every seller on ebay with a listing lol. But regarding the zs5 and messaging sellers should I say “do you have the zs5 v1?” Or should I say “do you have the brass ring version?” Is the brass ring on the nozzle as easy to find as the zs1? Are there any other identifying marks on the zs5 v1 compared to the v2? I know the v1 sounds better so I’d like to locate a pair if possible...

Lol it’ll be another treasure hunt like for the zs1 v1 but I’m up for it


----------



## cleg

my impressions about KZ AS06


----------



## gbrgbr (Dec 28, 2018)

cleg said:


> my impressions about KZ AS06



Can I request you, and the other reviewers here, to mention :
- the diameter of the nozzle. Some of us have narrow ear canals. For e.g. I found the ZSA (ZSA has a wider nozzle than the ZSR which fits me OK) just won't fit properly in my ears - it took me pretty long to figure out why 
- the type of KZ socket. For e.g. the ZSA (again) has a _angled_ 'A-Paragraph' cable. Many users including myself bought 'B-Paragraph' (since they are angled) upgrade cables and found they don't fit the ZSA.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 28, 2018)

cleg said:


> my impressions about KZ AS06



Get a better microphone, your voice was sounding a little metallic and robotic

well can you compare it with ED16


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why is the AS06 a no go? Is it because of the advice in the next sentence? Why didn't you tell me this months ago? I have 10+ KZ's now.
> The Moondrop Kanas Pro is $180USD, The Ibasso IT01 is $340CAN, The S is the newest version? The BGVP DM6 is $200USD. Why would I spend that much? Some of us aren't rich.
> My Zishan Z3 DAP was only $50 USD so those would be four times the cost. I like the KZ's for the affordability. My KZ AS10 was $44USD/$60CAN. That's more affordable than $200USD/$275CAN
> Are the more expensive models going to really knock my ears socks off that much?


AS06 seems another V-shaped KZ, something I have enough. Plus, the other reason - You really do get more HQ sound from 100-200$ price bracket.
I`d better collect money than spend it on 10+ KZs that doesn`t seem to "grow" to that level, well, not yet.


1clearhead said:


> @LaughMoreDaily
> Just go for the CCA C10 "ten driver hybrid" and keep it within the family!  ...It's only around $30 US dollars!


Do You have PHB-023 to compare?


----------



## dhruvmeena96

SomeEntityThing said:


> I'm sorry for being clueless, but what might the holes do, theoretically? Open up the soundstage? Lessen noise isolation?


it helps driver breathe in layman language
back accumulated pressure restrict the driver movement 

well it makes driver fast but increase 3rd annular distortion and restrict the low end(if closed)

with a vent, bass extends deep, distortion is gone(can increase with wrong size of vent) and driver become slow

BA are fast because of sealed nature and their technicality

Opened Knowles RAB driver may sound bass extended but is slower than closed RAB 
Etymotic ER4XR(open RAB) vs Etymotic ER4SR

same is with Dynamic

but in iem, dynamic needs to be opened most of the time as they displace air a lot compared to area inside the iem and can build up magnitude of pressure limiting its capability to produce bass(in Hybrid, the need is important)

full range can and cannot, upto designer.... as full range is important than just bass, so sealed design like brainwavz jive or Shure SE215 is present


----------



## BrunoC

After the MASSIVE hype the KZ ZSN got, I had to pull the trigger.

I do find the KZ ZSN very clear, and engaging, with "in your face" sound, but alas also very fatiguing and can't stand it more than 30 minutes.

For me the best price/performance ratio of 2018 is :       EZ AUDIO D4 - Just incredible sound (after 10h burnin the sound opened a lot as It seems to happen on titanium drivers).


----------



## CthulhuNinja (Dec 28, 2018)

BrunoC said:


> After the MASSIVE hype the KZ ZSN got, I had to pull the trigger.
> 
> I do find the KZ ZSN very clear, and engaging, with "in your face" sound, but alas also very fatiguing and can't stand it more than 30 minutes.
> 
> For me the best price/performance ratio of 2018 is :       EZ AUDIO D4 - Just incredible sound (after 10h burnin the sound opened a lot as It seems to happen on titanium drivers).


What is your source?

My suggestion  is to burn in the new KZN for 100h (can be music or mix of burnin noises, had better luck with former) then try JVC SpiralDot replacement tips for taming the fatiguing treble.

I have now purple (burned in, SpiralDot tips) for home listening and cyan ZSNs which I did not burn in, with stock KZN tips in but listen to daily in commute. Since I do not get fatigued by treble (I like ES3s) my feeling is that burnin + tips mellow down the sound.
Of course if something else is the reason for fatigue, maybe you need different tips anyway


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 28, 2018)

BrunoC said:


> After the MASSIVE hype the KZ ZSN got, I had to pull the trigger.
> 
> I do find the KZ ZSN very clear, and engaging, with "in your face" sound, but alas also very fatiguing and can't stand it more than 30 minutes.
> 
> For me the best price/performance ratio of 2018 is :       EZ AUDIO D4 - Just incredible sound (after 10h burnin the sound opened a lot as It seems to happen on titanium drivers).



I really like ZSN treble.
In contrast, I found ZS10 least fatiguing of my KZ (could not power it up to "wake up" the treble)


----------



## BrunoC

CthulhuNinja said:


> What is your source?
> 
> My suggestion  is to burn in the new KZN for 100h (can be music or mix of burnin noises, had better luck with former) then try JVC SpiralDot replacement tips for taming the fatiguing treble.
> 
> ...



My source is the Fiio E07K.

I'll let the ZSN some more time burnin mode and test later. I have a lot od tips but haven't got the SpiraDots. Maybe some narrow bore tips would help.

Note that I love the ZS6 with comply and don't find it harsh/piercing at all.
Actually the ZS6, ZS5 v1 and QT2 are some of my favorites.


----------



## CthulhuNinja

BrunoC said:


> My source is the Fiio E07K.
> 
> I'll let the ZSN some more time burnin mode and test later. I have a lot od tips but haven't got the SpiraDots. Maybe some narrow bore tips would help.
> 
> ...



Tried Sony narrowbore, you lose the good bass.






The spiral dots diffuse/mellow the treble for me somewhat. Do not know if it's intended to work like that but the result is better. And it's cheaper than buying the new CCA


----------



## mbwilson111

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Get a better microphone, your voice was sounding a little metallic and robotic



I usually try not to reply to such comments but I have to say that was quite rude for you to say that.  The video was well done.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 28, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why is the AS06 a no go? Is it because of the advice in the next sentence? Why didn't you tell me this months ago? I have 10+ KZ's now.
> 
> The Moondrop Kanas Pro is $180USD, The Ibasso IT01 is $340CAN, The S is the newest version? The BGVP DM6 is $200USD. Why would I spend that much? Some of us aren't rich.
> 
> ...



jumping from normal 50$ to 300$ range shows magnitude of improvement but after that law of diminishing returns hit

well save 100$ and get XWB driver, 7mm to 10mm driver adapter(aliexpress), clear shell and MMCX connector with good cable with green damper

earphonediylabs.com

make yourself one, it sounds the best

ask @CoiL how to do wood work and make a cool wood back as the XWB driver is dynamic, it will be affected by wood

enjoy

something made by yourself will give you better sound compared to super expensive gear

by the way XWB driver is from Sennheiser H


mbwilson111 said:


> I usually try not to reply to such comments but I have to say that was quite rude for you to say that.  The video was well done.


i am sorry

the review was good... no doubt
his sound was getting chuffed up by microphone and was sounding rough and robotic thats why

if it was rude, then i apologize sincerely. I never meant to criticize his work in bad manner


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 28, 2018)

kookaudio said:


> So you definitely think C10 is the #1 now...??


Well, personally it's number one in my list of IEM's, but that can definitely differ to others here that carry other branded IEM's and their personal choice of sound signatures, genres and other factors that may play to their sense of hearing.

...The truth is, we all might hear a little differently.


----------



## Conest

AS06's stock cable doesn't have memory wires...
With ZSNs being a huge hit and AS06 getting good reviews so far... (ZS7 releasing soon ofcourse)
I sense good times..


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> Well, personally it's number one in my list of IEM's, but that can definitely differ to others here that carry other branded IEM's and their personal choice of sound signatures, genres and other factors that may play to their sense of hearing.
> 
> ...The truth is, we all might hear a little differently.


Nothing to see here.. just @1clearhead being clear about his opinion..


----------



## 1clearhead

Conest said:


> Nothing to see here.. just @1clearhead being clear about his opinion..


Haha!...We all have to keep an open mind.


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> Haha!...We all have to keep an open mind.


----------



## cleg

gbrgbr said:


> Can I request you, and the other reviewers here, to mention


I'll try to answer when I'll be at home



dhruvmeena96 said:


> Get a better microphone, your voice was sounding a little metallic and robotic


I'm sorry, I'd like to upgrade my mic, but currently it's impossible due to circumstances. But I'm working towards resolving this



dhruvmeena96 said:


> well can you compare it with ED16


unfortunately I didn't test ED16


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 28, 2018)

Conest said:


> AS06's stock cable doesn't have memory wires...
> With ZSNs being a huge hit and AS06 getting good reviews so far... (ZS7 releasing soon ofcourse)
> I sense good times..


AS06 biggest effect was psychological visual one. Best looking KZ till date
second was AS10 sound with slight bass boost and some decay, making it natural

plus KZ AS06 has actual memory wire instead old era metal molding ear hook

get the silver-copper or silver-gold TRN or KZ new 8braid cable

they look and feel damn premium(no change in sound though, not a cable believer untill or unless they start using carbon Nanotube yarn for wire which is league better than silver, i mean 15Ms/s of CNT compared to 5Ms/s of silver and 3Ms/s of copper)

by the way, add 75ohm impedance adapter from dunu to any KZ except ZS10 and old era KZ(excpet ED9) and feed them power, ohh dayumm they sound so premium

KZ has issue with random peak burst and decay in treble which impedance adapter fix

second is wide bore eartips, because narrow bore tends to increase bass and peak at 7 to 8kHz region

KZ ES4 with Dunu 75ohm and stock eartips on Stray Kids "My Pace" makes the vocal intimate and lower the treble ssh treble sibilance and instrument on good stage. Not joking, it reminds of Senn HD660s of mine but better bass control due to IEM

KZ ZS10 treble dies

KZ AS10 loses impactful bass and seems way more extended and hall like stage comes in play, like Focal like sound imaging(Focal ELEX like Hall Image) and treble comes more mature

KZ BA10, sold off, not a cup of tea for me as bass was lean already and mid bass thump die, making mids coming in centre like A shape iem

due to reduced volume on adapter, lower volume and less peak treble point, make the bass shine and coherency issue is not a issue

plus i can crank it loud without harming my ear due to peak burst are also damped with low frequency impedance is smoothened up

so everything sounds effortless

this was my experience


----------



## 1clearhead

CoiL said:


> AS06 seems another V-shaped KZ, something I have enough. Plus, the other reason - You really do get more HQ sound from 100-200$ price bracket.
> I`d better collect money than spend it on 10+ KZs that doesn`t seem to "grow" to that level, well, not yet.
> 
> Do You have PHB-023 to compare?


They look interesting!...I wish I had them to compare!

...I saw them once before, but I forgot to look into them.


----------



## Conest

dhruvmeena96 said:


> AS06 biggest effect was psychological visual one. Best looking KZ till date
> second was AS10 sound with slight bass boost and some decay, making it natural


I dont think people lean towards Visuals that much when its all about SQ... Its more like a cherry on top.. thats for sure..
And I _think_ Tyranny Purple ZSN is the most gorgeous iem from KZ..
Some people like Cyan ones.. but they had to get Purple ones because they provided better Audio Experience...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Conest said:


> I dont think people lean towards Visuals that much when its all about SQ... Its more like a cherry on top.. thats for sure..
> And I _think_ Tyranny Purple ZSN is the most gorgeous iem from KZ..
> Some people like Cyan ones.. but they had to get Purple ones because they provided better Audio Experience...



smell effect the food taste
visual effect the food taste
ambience effect the dining experience

psychoacoustics are also a factor and a huge one

that is why blind test is important


----------



## Conest (Dec 28, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> smell effect the food taste
> visual effect the food taste
> ambience effect the dining experience
> 
> ...


Totally irrelevant but ok (blind test where one must not know which model is being tested... Looks shouldn't be a factor in that,. Price should be)

But I'm just a newbie.. All members here know about all this more than me.. i just see different reviews and pick one which i agree with the most...


----------



## HAMS

AS06 intrigue me at first because it's all BA with "fewer" driver from KZ but it seems to be another V-shape tuned KZ.


----------



## C2thew

couldn't figure out what this song was called for the LONNGGGGest time.


a youtube recommended video

Has there been any comparison between the AS10 and the CC10?


----------



## Slater

trollin863 said:


> Are you aware of any sellers that still have the zs5 v1 with the brass ring in stock? About a year and a half ago I decided I wanted the zs1 with the brass ring and man was that hard to find!!! I was hoping the zs5 v1 was easier to obtain.
> 
> What I did before to find the brass ring zs1 was message every seller on ebay with a listing lol. But regarding the zs5 and messaging sellers should I say “do you have the zs5 v1?” Or should I say “do you have the brass ring version?” Is the brass ring on the nozzle as easy to find as the zs1? Are there any other identifying marks on the zs5 v1 compared to the v2? I know the v1 sounds better so I’d like to locate a pair if possible...
> 
> Lol it’ll be another treasure hunt like for the zs1 v1 but I’m up for it



There's no brass ring on the ZS5 v1 friend.

The only way to visual tell the difference is the number of BA drivers inside the nozzle.

Here's a photo with the nozzle mesh *removed*:

 

You can shine a light down into the nozzle without removing the nozzle mesh, but good luck trying to explain that to a Chinese seller (or getting someone to reliably do it).

Here's a photo when using the light method - note the 2 'circles':


----------



## Slater




----------



## PhonoPhi

dhruvmeena96 said:


> AS06 biggest effect was psychological visual one. Best looking KZ till date
> second was AS10 sound with slight bass boost and some decay, making it natural
> 
> plus KZ AS06 has actual memory wire instead old era metal molding ear hook
> ...



Very informative, thank you!

Speaking of AS10, impedance matching with IEmatch did not make AS10 sound better for my subjectively - on the contrary, it made it more even in response with less bass, which I liked so much in a non-matched form.

P.S. Mobility is only one of the factors, so CNTs and graphene won't be able to replace good metals, such as silver and copper.


----------



## kookaudio

dhruvmeena96 said:


> AS06 biggest effect was psychological visual one. Best looking KZ till date
> second was AS10 sound with slight bass boost and some decay, making it natural
> 
> plus KZ AS06 has actual memory wire instead old era metal molding ear hook
> ...



I went for a 30ohm impedance adapter for a ZSN, just waiting for it. Let’s see...


----------



## dhruvmeena96

kookaudio said:


> I went for a 30ohm impedance adapter for a ZSN, just waiting for it. Let’s see...


i have 20Ohm and it makes the sound little more dynamically tighter with less harshness

i have 75ohm which makes sound really good
but it makes KZ mids sound distant and intimate at same time

like, when there is no instrument, only vocals, taps and clicks it sounds inside my head but in a nice way. but when complex passage, instruments come, they all get distant outside my head.

KZ ES4 sounds like Etymotic ER4 with more air and more low spectrum bass boosted to bonkers. Everything in between sounds like etymotic, distant and lifeless

but the air on top and weight in extreme low end, makes the distant and lifeless iem a overhaul rebirth(not exaggerating).

Same was the deal with Ety ER4p and S. 

and other people who are scared of messing up the crossover, tension not..... it is in audio line, in series and not in crossovers as crossovers are in parallel.

crossover will receive the changed response to divide between drivers


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Conest said:


> IAnd I _think_ Tyranny Purple ZSN is the most gorgeous iem from KZ..
> Some people like Cyan ones.. but they had to get Purple ones because they provided better Audio Experience...


I don't understand why people blacken in the metal back on the purple ZSN. It wasn't made that way. I prefer how it was naturally artistically created. I don't care how feminine it looks or that it may have been made for a woman... overall, it looks good and stands out from all my black iem's. Maybe this will change my mind to be more open to buying non-black iem's.


----------



## voicemaster

dhruvmeena96 said:


> smell effect the food taste
> visual effect the food taste
> ambience effect the dining experience
> 
> ...



you know what affect the sound most in IEM? the PRICE.


----------



## kookaudio

dhruvmeena96 said:


> i have 20Ohm and it makes the sound little more dynamically tighter with less harshness
> 
> i have 75ohm which makes sound really good
> but it makes KZ mids sound distant and intimate at same time
> ...


And difference from er4p and s is exactly 75ohm impedance.


----------



## kookaudio

dhruvmeena96 said:


> i have 20Ohm and it makes the sound little more dynamically tighter with less harshness
> 
> i have 75ohm which makes sound really good
> but it makes KZ mids sound distant and intimate at same time
> ...


And difference between er4p and s is exactly 75ohm impedance.


----------



## kookaudio

dhruvmeena96 said:


> i have 20Ohm and it makes the sound little more dynamically tighter with less harshness
> 
> i have 75ohm which makes sound really good
> but it makes KZ mids sound distant and intimate at same time
> ...


And difference between er4p and s is exactly 75ohm impedance.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't understand why people blacken in the metal back on the purple ZSN. It wasn't made that way. I prefer how it was naturally artistically created. I don't care how feminine it looks or that it may have been made for a woman... overall, it looks good and stands out from all my black iem's. Maybe this will change my mind to be more open to buying non-black iem's.



Have people been blackening the silver on the purple ZSN?  I did not think so.  Do you have an example of such a post? The silver is polished and shiny so it might be difficult to color it.  All I did was to make the plate on my cyan ZSN cyan....just because I could

Also I do not think the purple/silver was made for a woman.  No gender has a monopoly on a color.  Plus, when it is in your ear people are only going to notice the silver.

I think it would be boring to have all black iems.  Same with buds.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

kookaudio said:


> And difference from er4p and s is exactly 75ohm impedance.


i think it was 16 and 75ohm in series

somebody added 300 ohm and it made a huge difference and was okay to drive

he said things became overtight and criticallly damped


dont try with KZ though,iem dynamic drivers dont like extreme damping


----------



## kookaudio

I will not!
I went for 30ohm since 75 seemed to me already a bit too much.


----------



## Conest

mbwilson111 said:


> Also I do not think the purple/silver was made for a woman.  No gender has a monopoly on a color.  Plus, when it is in your ear people are only going to notice the silver.
> 
> I think it would be boring to have all black iems.  Same with buds.


Exactly


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

kookaudio said:


> I went for a 30ohm impedance adapter for a ZSN, just waiting for it. Let’s see...


Why 30 ohm? I bought a 75 ohm Dunu adapter. Are these things really supposed to fix the flaws in KZ earphones?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> Also I do not think the purple/silver was made for a woman.  No gender has a monopoly on a color.  Plus, when it is in your ear people are only going to notice the silver.
> 
> I think it would be boring to have all black iems.  Same with buds.


It would be a smart business move to make IEM's with more feminine colors especially when KZ is as big of a brand as they are. Whether they did that with the ZSN Purple, who knows... you're right though, color doesn't matter... it's about the sound quality and if you find the looks of it appealing enough to use.

I call all my black iem's, THE GOTH COLLECTION. It sure is boring, but they work well with fancier cables. The Purple ZSN and the Red/Black ZSA are opening doors for me. Should have I bought the Grey ZSA? Hmm. I want more color... but black works substantially well.


----------



## kookaudio

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why 30 ohm? I bought a 75 ohm Dunu adapter. Are these things really supposed to fix the flaws in KZ earphones?


Because you can add whatever you like more (considering some limits).
Anyway I will try with different resistors between 30 and 80ohm, simply soldering resistors to the 3.5mm jack


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 28, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> Also I do not think the purple/silver was made for a woman.  No gender has a monopoly on a color.  Plus, when it is in your ear people are only going to notice the silver.
> 
> I think it would be boring to have all black iems.  Same with buds.



It would be a smart business move to make IEM's with more feminine colors especially when KZ is as big of a brand as they are. Whether they did that with the ZSN Purple, who knows... you're right though, color doesn't matter... it's about the sound quality/signature and if you find the looks of it appealing enough to use.

I call all my black iem's, THE GOTH COLLECTION. It sure is boring, but they work well with fancier cables. The Purple ZSN and the Red/Black ZSA are opening doors for me. Should I have bought the Grey ZSA? Hmm. I want more color... but black works substantially well.  I wish I bought the Grey TRN v20 but don't like it now anyway. ​


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I find my ears buzzing with the ZS10 after just a few short minutes. What does this mean? Some people say the peaks of KZ's are too much, are they? I bought a 75 ohm Dunu adapter today to find out in two months when it arrives...


----------



## Superluc

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why 30 ohm? I bought a 75 ohm Dunu adapter. Are these things really supposed to fix the flaws in KZ earphones?


Well, they help get rid of the source noise, but then you need to feed the iem with more power. 
Regarding the peaks, it depends on the IEM. Some get a touch of less highs (ZS6), but the result with the original ZS5 it's the opposite. There is some graphs around the thread, about it.

Usually, on bigger headphones, with an higher impedance of the source, or an adapter in between, the bass will be boosted a bit.

I use one of that 75 ohm Dunu adapter, brought for the ZS6. It's not game changing on the signature, but i find that a worthy accessory, for the source noise and for see if the headphone perform better or not with more ohm in between. Then, you'll need to do the tips rolling (in the deep)


----------



## kookaudio (Dec 28, 2018)

Superluc said:


> Well, they help get rid of the source noise, but then you need to feed the iem with more power.
> Regarding the peaks, it depends on the IEM. Some get a touch of less highs (ZS6), but the result with the original ZS5 it's the opposite. There is some graphs around the thread, about it.
> 
> Usually, on bigger headphones, with an higher impedance of the source, or an adapter in between, the bass will be boosted a bit.
> ...


Impedance adaptor should work well with lower impedance IEMs, and KZ are that kind of IEM. AS06 are 15ohm, quite in the low range.


----------



## SybilLance

dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ has issue with random peak burst and decay in treble which impedance adapter fix


I'm confused. 

May I ask if by "random peak burst and decay" you mean: 1) sudden transient very loud peaks in the music as what can be usually found in excellent dynamically uncompressed recordings of classical orchestral works; or 2) random frequency response variations caused by quite high source output impedance?

If it's no. 1 then perhaps you are listening too loudly with your volume turned way up unless you are claiming there exists a general flaw among all KZ earphones..?

If it's no. 2 then it's not an issue inherent with any or all KZ earphones and you simply use a source with low output impedance, and if there's no such source then that's where the so-called impedance adapter comes in. But you are singling out KZ as having an issue with "random peak burst and decay in treble". I thought that most if not all balanced armature earphones have sharply-variable impedances across the entire audible frequency range. 

And when there is nothing wrong with the signal path leading to an earphone in perfect working condition, why would there still be a need for an impedance adapter? To change the sound quality and make it more pleasing? Then why not simply use an equalizer which can work across the entire audible frequency spectrum and not just on certain ranges thereof? Perhaps you mean a filter of some sort?

My apologies for these questions and my confusion but I'm not a professional with expertise on these technical matters nor a wiseacre out to introduce chaos. Just an average but curious lay person trying to sift through things, trying to understand certain basic principles that underlie our milieu of headphones and headgear as a means to better enjoy our music, most of which principles seem terrifyingly complex. And at the same time having a most difficult time trying to ascertain which of these being proffered in these forums are factual and objectively accurate, which aspects are subjective impressions and which of these are misleading or are actual misconceptions or just plain wrong.


----------



## HungryPanda

It's all Sound Science to me


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> It's all Sound Science to me



...and there is a special thread for that...


----------



## Conest

is there any Bluetooth upgrade Module available for KZs that supports Qualcomm Aptx low latency tech ?


----------



## TechnoidFR (Dec 28, 2018)

AS06 in my ears
First good impression after NiceHCK M6. comparing with as10 seems slightly different

Same mids, more bass, less treble. Same separation and scene
Globally less bright.

To see after 20h but less equilibrate than as10 for sure


----------



## Slater

Conest said:


> is there any Bluetooth upgrade Module available for KZs that supports Qualcomm Aptx low latency tech ?



EarStudio ES100


----------



## Conest

Slater said:


> EarStudio ES100


Hmm.. cant see AptxLL on their official site though...
I think fiio btr1k supports this... But i was looking for a cable upgrade.. Thanks anyways Slater..


----------



## Slater

Conest said:


> Hmm.. cant see AptxLL on their official site though...
> I think fiio btr1k supports this... But i was looking for a cable upgrade.. Thanks anyways Slater..



Ah, sorry it’s aptX HD and LDAC


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 28, 2018)

Superluc said:


> Well, they help get rid of the source noise, but then you need to feed the iem with more power.
> Regarding the peaks, it depends on the IEM. Some get a touch of less highs (ZS6), but the result with the original ZS5 it's the opposite. There is some graphs around the thread, about it.


I see, so the main role of a 30 ohm, 75 ohm, etc adapter is to lower the noise between the source and headphones so the music sounds more crisp and authentic to how it was supposed to sound originally?

But the adapter itself could also change the sound signature of the headphones potentially but not always making the music sound not as good?

I'm curious why no one has brought up Sound Hacks before, whether they work or not... it's always, "Buy the new KZ, this new KZ sounds amazing, etc".

What about not buying a new KZ and using a sound hack to make your current KZ sound better and hence save more money? Maybe no one knows any sound hacks other than this ohm adapter? If it works...because you're the only person I've seen talking about it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Pretty funny but weird review of the CCA 04:


----------



## hakuzen

about using impedance adapters with kz..
the frequency response alteration depends of the impedance curve of the iem and the resistance value of the adapter, and affects most to high frequencies. with some iem, you get harsher highs, while tamed highs with other iem.
an example: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787
so, like @SybilLance  says, tonality alteration is very limited and inaccurate by using this method, besides of jack stress due to the length of the combo. equalizing should be easier and more accurate.
for instance, this is my last eq try on kz zs6 (with foam tips, L size), which includes lows taming (bass bump is too huge for my taste), and forwarded mids (you can try it if you'd like a more balanced sound), 
low shelf filter: 400Hz, Q:0.2, -8.0dB (bass taming)
peak filter 4: 800Hz, Q:0.4, +1.5dB (mids forwarding)
peak filter 6: 8200Hz, Q:4.0, -2.0dB (highs taming)
peak filter 7: 11300Hz, Q:2.0, -4.0dB (highs taming)


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 29, 2018)

Got an email telling me there was 15% off everything until 7PST on Ebay. Thought long and hard about Fiio F9 Pro. Then AS10. AS06. Settled on CCA C10 for $24. Very interested in comparing to ZSN and ZS10, both of which I own. Thankfully this happened before the new year as my resolution is to kind of just go end game over the next year.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 28, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Got an email telling me there was 15% off everything until 7PST on Ebay. Then AS10. AS06. Settled on CCA C10 for $24.



What made you "settle" on the C10? Finances?  Is that price in USD? It is cheaper but  not much different from Gearbest.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

SybilLance said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> May I ask if by "random peak burst and decay" you mean: 1) sudden transient very loud peaks in the music as what can be usually found in excellent dynamically uncompressed recordings of classical orchestral works; or 2) random frequency response variations caused by quite high source output impedance?
> 
> ...


LoL

Okay, get a decay chart of NiceHCK bro and KZ ES4 and compare them

Peak at 7kHz and its decay.

Plus when the frequency response is stated between +/- 2dB by KZ themselves. Try matching yourself.

But lemme tell you

I am also from this field and I have written some research papers too. I can PM you those if you want.

Three frequency should never have extended decay is what is basic bro

3kHz , 6kHz and 8kHz

Other guys, also call this phenomenon triple ringing.

It is just driver resonance

Compare ED Knowles to FED. I should ask you why they dampened the driver with ferrofluid when there was etymotic ER4 already.

See niceHCK bro and some other iem, the nozzle from BA is absent there, which reduce Helmholtz resonance generated from tubing. 

You can ask these basic from everyone

Well, leave that, I am more sensitive to Shh and S(sibilance) but I like bright/neutral earphone.

That is why I added a impedance adapter to my KZ. Simple

By the way, I want someone experienced to help me in a project


I can PM the details of you can help me



hakuzen said:


> about using impedance adapters with kz..
> the frequency response alteration depends of the impedance curve of the iem and the resistance value of the adapter, and affects most to high frequencies. with some iem, you get harsher highs, while tamed highs with other iem.
> an example: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1553#post-13777787
> so, like @SybilLance  says, tonality alteration is very limited and inaccurate by using this method, besides of jack stress due to the length of the combo. equalizing should be easier and more accurate.
> ...


Agree with Jack stress

Plus on some Chinese forum, a guy added 16ohm resistor to series to Dual BA. Search KZ ZS6 mod and you will see it on images, green ZS6. He was going to series those BA but said that it was too much of hassle. So he did resistor in series and his freq chart was really looking good. Impedance adapter is not permanent fix and he said he would require 150ohm to damp and will get lower sensitivity.

But if you are on budget and need quick fixes, impedance adapters work.
I destroyed 3 KZ ES4 and my old ZS5

(Pain for old ZS5)


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Dec 28, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What made you "settle" on the C10? Finances?  Is that price in USD? It is cheaper but  not much different from Gearbest.


Settled on c10 because I know its super comfortable already, Its $24, and I am genuinely interested in a more refined ZSN. I personally love ZSN. If I could cross ZSN with a smidge of the technicals of the ZS10 I would probably be set on phones for the near future. That would allow me to set my sights on Hiby R6 Pro as my end game DAP.
BTW ordered about 2 hours ago and already have positive feedback and a tracking number. Hopeful that this is one of them 7-10 day epacket deals.

Also Gearbest is $38. $24 is cheapest I have seen.


----------



## Zerohour88

went away for a full week and its return of the ramblings of sound science here, it seems

sigh, so many random info being spouted around, really hoping reviews of the AS06 are released soon


----------



## Superluc

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I see, so the main role of a 30 ohm, 75 ohm, etc adapter is to lower the noise between the source and headphones so the music sounds more crisp and authentic to how it was supposed to sound originally?
> 
> But the adapter itself could also change the sound signature of the headphones potentially but not always making the music sound not as good?
> 
> ...


IEMs are usually sensitive to the noise floor, the one that you feel especially when listen to a player that was started but wasn't still play a song.
Using the same source, with bigger headphones, that have higher impedance, you may not feel anything on the floor, like it is dark/void.
It's not about crispness, like they suggest as advertising, but just put a resistance in between for take away, or minimize, that disturbance. 
There's other kind of better/more costly solutions, renowned here, like the iFi Ear Buddy and iEMatch. A simpler adapter is just cheaper.

Putting an higher resistance in between can also change the response on some way, especially with this kind of hybrids, where dynamics drivers and BAs can create a strange impedance curve on the headphone and react differently to that abnormality.    
Who REALLY knows what is doing can also create specific filters for address the response of an headphone on some range of frequencies.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 28, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> went away for a full week and its return of the ramblings of sound science here, it seems
> 
> sigh, so many random info being spouted around, really hoping reviews of the AS06 are released soon


AS06 is released already

by the way, i am sorry for the ramblings from my side



Superluc said:


> IEMs are usually sensitive to the noise floor, the one that you feel especially when listen to a player that was started but wasn't still play a song.
> Using the same source, with bigger headphones, that have higher impedance, you may not feel anything on the floor, like it is dark/void.
> It's not about crispness, like they suggest as advertising, but just put a resistance in between for take away, or minimize, that disturbance.
> There's other kind of better/more costly solutions, renowned here, like the iFi Ear Buddy and iEMatch. A simpler adapter is just cheaper.
> ...



simpler design iem are not affected that much. simple two way wont get that much impedance curves, and dynamic and BA are more advance compared to AKG k3003. Noise from source is damped though, which sound nice

more complex electronic crossovered design will get the effect

and hybrids are more sensitive to impedance shift, but its okay for 2way or 3way with simple low pass and high pass filter.

this is my last tech rambling though @Zerohour88


----------



## Slater

Does anyone have the ED15? Are they worth owning, assuming I don't mind the fixed cable?


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 28, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> went away for a full week and its return of the ramblings of sound science here.......really hoping reviews of the AS06 are released soon



Thus far, B9 has posted his initial impressions on the AS06
https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/12/20/kz-as06-preview/amp/


Clegg (Porta-Fi) has posted his impressions of the AS06





and HBB has posted his initial impressionsof the AS06.




Clear has posted his impressions of the new CCA C10
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2660#post-14677035



and someone with literally ZERO history here on Head-Fi posted some preliminary ZS7 impressions:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews#review-21375



A good rule of thumb before ingesting the feedback is to know your reviewer's tastes before you filter through said feedback.




 


Hope this was helpful.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

DocHoliday said:


> and someone with literally ZERO history here on Head-Fi posted some preliminary ZS7 impressions:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews#review-21375
> 
> 
> ...


when did it release
The ZS7....it is not on official KZ store


----------



## HerrXRDS

dhruvmeena96 said:


> when did it release
> The ZS7....it is not on official KZ store



Mine were shipped 2 weeks ago by AK Audio Store, currently in customs.


----------



## Zerohour88

DocHoliday said:


> Thus far, B9 has posted his initial impressions on the AS06
> https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/12/20/kz-as06-preview/amp/
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure its helpful to some readers here and as you said, B9 is one of the reviewers I trust. Seems even crab likes it so far? Bisonicr has also posted his review of the AS06, but he's quite positive about most IEM he reviews, not that that's bad.

ZS7 is still a bit of an unknown, no updates of it on both the official KZ weibo, tmall and aliexpress store. Looking at the box, it does look legit (same as the AS06? other than the reversed left-right slots). Also, that blue color, whew, looks even better than the renders.

and one last mention about the sound science thing @dhruvmeena96, I honestly don't mind if its only a simple explanation about how certain things might work (the difference between a headphone impedance adapter and attenuator, for example), but try to simplify it or don't ramble on about details that don't matter. Its a complicated enough matter that people don't need the hassle of deciphering some technical mumbo-jumbo.

of course, its just one man's opinion and if others actually like the rambling, carry on


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm sure its helpful to some readers here and as you said, B9 is one of the reviewers I trust. Seems even crab likes it so far? Bisonicr has also posted his review of the AS06, but he's quite positive about most IEM he reviews, not that that's bad.
> 
> ZS7 is still a bit of an unknown, no updates of it on both the official KZ weibo, tmall and aliexpress store. Looking at the box, it does look legit (same as the AS06? other than the reversed left-right slots). Also, that blue color, whew, looks even better than the renders.
> 
> ...


okey dokey
no probs


----------



## SybilLance

Sorry, have to get this off my chest and out of my mind:



dhruvmeena96 said:


> KZ has issue with random peak burst and decay in treble which impedance adapter fix




My question is simple. I was confused so I asked. That statement I quoted above alleges an issue with KZ earphones in general with regard to the phrase "random peak burst and decay" and the subtext is that somehow all KZ earphones have an inherent inability to deal with it. Whatever it is.

I own KZ earphones. I enjoy them. I love them.

I have extolled their reproduction of the music I love in this thread, the KZ impressions thread of head-fi. 

So I am curious why after all these thousands of pages of posts here this supposed issue has surfaced only now.

I have invested time and passion in my KZ earphones and if there's something inherently technically wrong with them I think I deserve a moment in a single post to ask the nature of such flaw. And to follow up on said post.

Yes, I agree it would inevitably dwell on science, but I believe it's not much different to  when someone asks what is it that makes certain KZ cables audibly inferior to others. Questions that are common in this thread.

Such questions however cover a mere subset; dhruvmeena96's statement implies an inherent flaw in _all_ KZ earphones.

His statement was made here. So I asked my question about it, here.

It has not been answered yet.

What I got instead was more technicalese about me getting my hands on decay charts, etc., and vague allusions to someone doing this and finding that.

And an invitation to PM him as regards it all.

I'm afraid I must respectfully decline to do so. I have already asked my question.

It, as is his statement, hangs in the air.




Moving on... it's almost 2019! The AS06 is on its way and will be in my ears very soon!


Hope it fits.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 29, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Sorry, have to get this off my chest and out of my mind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was posted already if you go back in pages
actually thrice
once by me earlier

by the way, KZ is okay, that decay and treble roughness actually define what KZ sound is, aggressive on details and good bass for price. KZ has one of the craziest aggression on detailing and KZ ZS6 was able to get the Tape recorder Hiss reduced by sound engineer come back(The most aggressive). Only KZ which really nails on spectrum chart are KZ ED9, KZ ED16 and legendary KZ ZS5v1, which has become a rarity.

Technically understanding, the peaks are resonances of BA. In BA, the resonance part is the driver internals, its spout or mouth(Helmholtz resonance), Tubing and your ear. KZ BA are underdamped BA, which has some good nice details which used to be sourced from Bellsing in old time. KZ started manufacturing or sourcing custom BA after some time which are way better.

Old KZ ZST vs new ZST vs ES4.

But they still have not mastered the art of BA, and Bellsing have also upped their game in recent times with measured graph and specs on ALI

but the imperfectness is what defines KZ house sound. Nobody like overdamped music, which sound lifeless and most of people dont enjoy Etymotic.

But for me, KZ was getting sibilant and i used Eq and other stuff to fix, but i never got it to fix it, i thought drivers are getting forced to produce music, which after an impedance adapter, actually fixed it, noise was gone and sound was smooth and effortless, since then i am using this setup for all KZ

respect of AS10, they sound good and i use 20ohm adapter with it to sound very nice

everybody has different taste, and i dont like aggressive sound, i like bright and neutral with some nice extended bass

well this brand goes on experimenting, slowly evolving instead of getting some predefined config design....which is good and bad at same time

so many design needs huge investment


----------



## Conest

Is ZS7 an experiment from KZ ?? Like if people really prefer its sound, we'll make an official announcement.. if they don't we'll release a v2 of these ??


----------



## Zerohour88

Conest said:


> Is ZS7 an experiment from KZ ?? Like if people really prefer its sound, we'll make an official announcement.. if they don't we'll release a v2 of these ??



like the ED16, they probably just released it as a throwaway model, not a part of their official lineup. Basically until stocks run out. My take, the team thought they could improve the ZS6 more and wanted to release it, but the main KZ didn't want to make their current lineup more convoluted.

its weird to be bringing up a v2 when there's barely such issue after the ZS5v2 debacle. They don't need to make a v2, they'll just release a new model if they wanted a different tuning. They learned from their own knee-jerk reaction of changing an ongoing, released model back then.

its not like a few other chi-fi companies who can just release a v2 and not get a huge backlash from the customers


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Does anyone have the ED15? Are they worth owning, assuming I don't mind the fixed cable?



I have the ED15 and to be honest I rarely use it.

It has a V shaped sound signature which I am okay with but my problem is with the fitment / comfort as it has a weird vacuum feel when you put them in the ears.


----------



## toddy0191

DocHoliday said:


> Thus far, B9 has posted his initial impressions on the AS06
> https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/12/20/kz-as06-preview/amp/
> 
> 
> ...




That review of the ZS7 isn't going to be there for long!!!  Just look at the warranty card in the picture at the bottom...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dhruvmeena96 said:


> But for me, KZ was getting sibilant and i used Eq and other stuff to fix, but i never got it to fix it, i thought drivers are getting forced to produce music, which after an impedance adapter, actually fixed it, noise was gone and sound was smooth and effortless, since then i am using this setup for all KZ
> 
> respect of AS10, they sound good and i use 20ohm adapter with it to sound very nice


I'm wondering if you could post a list of which ohm adapters you like with which KZ's and keep updating it? Cool. Thanks.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

toddy0191 said:


> That review of the ZS7 isn't going to be there for long!!!  Just look at the warranty card in the picture at the bottom...


HAHAHA. Good eyes.  That person will also be banned. ;P


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 29, 2018)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Settled on c10 because I know its super comfortable already, Its $24, Also Gearbest is $38. $24 is cheapest I have seen.


I wish you posted a link to the E-bay seller during the 15% off sale cause I couldn't find the C10 for $24CAN? I saw it for $29USD though but that isn't much cheaper than Gearbest.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 29, 2018)

Superluc said:


> There's other kind of better/more costly solutions, renowned here, like the iFi Ear Buddy and iEMatch. A simpler adapter is just cheaper.


Thanks for bringing these up. I've never heard much about them. So an ohm adapter would do a similar thing but at a much lower price point, just take away hiss etc and make the sound a little better/cleaner? Maybe these companies are just re-branding an ohm adapter to create a business model?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

AS06 - Sounds like a no-go from reviews for me.
7S7 - Sounds like a good possibility.
CCA C10 - Not a KZ.  #KZFanBoy


----------



## kookaudio

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks for bringing these up. I've never heard much about them. So an ohm adapter would do a similar thing but at a much lower price point, just take away hiss etc and make the sound a little better/cleaner? Maybe these companies are just re-branding an ohm adapter to create a business model?


If you are a little familiar with soldering you can even more cheperly roll some simple metalfilm resistor. You are in the area of some cents.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Dec 29, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks for bringing these up. I've never heard much about them. So an ohm adapter would do a similar thing but at a much lower price point, just take away hiss etc and make the sound a little better/cleaner? Maybe these companies are just re-branding an ohm adapter to create a business model?



like I mentioned previously, a headphone impedance adapter is a different thing compared to a headphone attenuator (iFi Ear Buddy and iEMatch, for example).

you can find the more technical details here:
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/headphone-attenuation-adapter/

you can make the attenuator yourself for cheap, iFi just packs it up in a convenient package (along with the changeable switch and more accurate resistors value, I assume)

for more info, you can also ask amir over on the ASR forums, the info there might be helpful if you want to also learn about outputs and whatnot:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurements-of-ifi-ear-buddy-and-iematch.4707/


----------



## kookaudio (Dec 29, 2018)

Zerohour88 said:


> like I mentioned previously, a headphone impedance adapter is a different thing compared to a headphone attenuator (iFi Ear Buddy and iEMatch, for example).
> 
> you can find the more technical details here:
> https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/headphone-attenuation-adapter/
> ...


iFi?
What is it?
EDIT- Sorry, got it.


----------



## HungryPanda

https://ifi-audio.com/


----------



## Zerohour88

kookaudio said:


> iFi?
> What is it?



ifi iEMatch, a headphone attenuator you can use to reduce hissing for sensitive IEMs or if you want to jack up volume to play with a higher output on your amp (certain amps can have channel imbalance or distortions at lower levels)

https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/


----------



## HungryPanda

@Slater I just took the ED15 out of my KZ case and had a 15 minute listen, using large starlines I push them in then pull slightly back to create seal. They are dark, bass heavy little monsters, wonderful with Techno and EDM. Singer/Songwriters and folk sound a bit tinny so the tuning is definitely on the low side. There are better KZ earphones for sure


----------



## nxnje

HungryPanda said:


> @Slater I just took the ED15 out of my KZ case and had a 15 minute listen, using large starlines I push them in then pull slightly back to create seal. They are dark, bass heavy little monsters, wonderful with Techno and EDM. Singer/Songwriters and folk sound a bit tinny so the tuning is definitely on the low side. There are better KZ earphones for sure


I don't know how can you listen to EDM tracks with dark IEMs. While listening EDM i like the brightness, but i mean.. everyone has his tastes


----------



## Superluc

kookaudio said:


> If you are a little familiar with soldering you can even more cheperly roll some simple metalfilm resistor. You are in the area of some cents.





Zerohour88 said:


> like I mentioned previously, a headphone impedance adapter is a different thing compared to a headphone attenuator (iFi Ear Buddy and iEMatch, for example).
> 
> you can find the more technical details here:
> https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/headphone-attenuation-adapter/
> ...


----------



## HungryPanda

nxnje said:


> I don't know how can you listen to EDM tracks with dark IEMs. While listening EDM i like the brightness, but i mean.. everyone has his tastes


 I did say there are much better KZ earphones, I do have preferred iems for different genres


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I wish you posted a link to the E-bay seller during the 15% off sale cause I couldn't find the C10 for $24CAN? I saw it for $29USD though but that isn't much cheaper than Gearbest.



$28 - 15% = $24 and some change. Too good of a deal to pass up(if these are actually good iems). Ebay usually has a 15% flash deal once a month.


----------



## dondonut (Dec 29, 2018)

BrunoC said:


> After the MASSIVE hype the KZ ZSN got, I had to pull the trigger.
> 
> I do find the KZ ZSN very clear, and engaging, with "in your face" sound, but alas also very fatiguing and can't stand it more than 30 minutes.
> 
> For me the best price/performance ratio of 2018 is :       EZ AUDIO D4 - Just incredible sound (after 10h burnin the sound opened a lot as It seems to happen on titanium drivers).



For me as well. The BQ3, ZSN and Ezaudio D4 were among my purchases @ 11/11 this year around. While the BQ3 is currently my daily driver (awesome signature), price/performance-wise the D4 impressed me the most. I had my honeymoon with the BQ3 and after a week or two listening to the D4 amazed me..again. It even made me post about them..again. Their sound sig is so pleasing to me; the clarity/detail is great and not fatiguing at all. I do miss the sub-bass sometimes and isolation is sub-par. Furthermore I'm not fond of the the flimsy cable and mic/control unit after the Y-split. They have somewhat of a budget feel to them, especially next to the BQ3 and ZSN. On the other side, with the D4 being so light and small they're so frigging comfortable. And this sound, from a single-driver iem which only cost me $7.99, with the case, what a deal. I did do some tiprolling and bassvent tweaking.

Edit: isolation is sub-par. To enjoy these give them a listen when you're in an environment with low to no background noise. But I guess that goes for every iem lol.

As for the BQ3 and ZSN, they perform great but i have a hard time comparing them. Earlier I started a post about the (for me) fine line between my craving for clarity/details and listening fatigue but couldn't quite put my thoughts down so that's for another day.
Then, undermining everything I write about these earphones, underlining my issues with rating these earphones, is the good ol' bias; my inability to listen to and compare these IEMs without considering what I paid for them. It makes judging this stuff all the more confusing. Price/performance ratio was what initially got me into chifi with the KZ ATR so now I'm having a hard time justifying purchasing new gear. I'm thinking of starting a little research project into the best price/performance portable dac/amp or DAP.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 29, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Thanks for bringing these up. I've never heard much about them. So an ohm adapter would do a similar thing but at a much lower price point, just take away hiss etc and make the sound a little better/cleaner? Maybe these companies are just re-branding an ohm adapter to create a business model?


Attenuation Circuit removes hiss it lower volume and helps in channel balance as some amps have channel balance at low volume. Impedance adapter fills impedance so the peak in impedance graph is more linear, but hybrid iem suffer as drivers have different graphs. Impedance adapter is like foam dampers in Pro IEM, or it is like restricting pressure where attenuation is like restricting volume.

In both, you need to crack volume high up to get up-to specified volume. Impedance adapter generally takes mid bass away and roll of treble in general(not always)

KZ ED9 - 20ohm always(this is legend with stock neutral filter)
KZ ES4- 20ohm on weak device otherwise 75ohm
KZ ZS6 - above 75ohm and below 150ohm, if want to go above, then get 300ohm
KZ AS10- 20ohm
Tinaudio T2pro - 20ohm(No need with T2)
KZ ZS5v1- drive on lower volume, no need iFi Match
8mm XWB driver- 65ohm
Senn IE80S- No need



dondonut said:


> For me as well. The BQ3, ZSN and Ezaudio D4 were among my purchases @ 11/11 this year around. While the BQ3 is currently my daily driver (awesome signature), price/performance-wise the D4 impressed me the most. I had my honeymoon with the BQ3 and after a week or two listening to the D4 amazed me..again. It even made me post about them..again. Their sound sig is so pleasing to me; the clarity/detail is great and not fatiguing at all. I do miss the sub-bass sometimes and isolation is sub-par. Furthermore I'm not fond of the the flimsy cable and mic/control unit after the Y-split. They have somewhat of a budget feel to them, especially next to the BQ3 and ZSN. On the other side, with the D4 being so light and small they're so frigging comfortable. And this sound, from a single-driver iem which only cost me $7.99, with the case, what a deal. I did do some tiprolling and bassvent tweaking.
> 
> Edit: isolation is sub-par. To enjoy these give them a listen when you're in an environment with low to no background noise. But I guess that goes for every iem lol.
> 
> ...



Hold your nose and gently breathe out through them, this sorta clear the pressure build up to eardrum, but dont do often

then compare the IEM, you would be able to hear more details

and it is confusing to compare, but it will take time...

Get Fiio Q1mk2 and agdr cmoy linear


----------



## mbwilson111

I feel no need to get an impedance adapter for any of my iems, KZ or otherwise.  Why over complicate everything.


----------



## dondonut

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Attenuation Circuit removes hiss it lower volume and helps in channel balance as some amps have channel balance at low volume. Impedance adapter fills impedance so the peak in impedance graph is more linear, but hybrid iem suffer as drivers have different graphs. Impedance adapter is like foam dampers in Pro IEM, or it is like restricting pressure where attenuation is like restricting volume.
> 
> In both, you need to crack volume high up to get up-to specified volume. Impedance adapter generally takes mid bass away and roll of treble in general(not always)
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip. I'm having no issues with pressure buildup or driver flex though. I do that thingy (depressurize?) without holding my nose, by flexing some muscles behind my ear and lower throat I would say? Something I remember learning when I used to swim and ”dive" a lot as a kid.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ZSN sounds fire y'all.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 29, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I feel no need to get an impedance adapter for any of my iems, KZ or otherwise.  Why over complicate everything.


it was for those who want different sound, more relaxed and mature

if you like aggressive detail, it is good as it is if you don't drive it loud

but i can report two things for you

1.Bass overall quality improves tremendously 
2.Mids move little down and distant
3.treble gets less aggressive and smoother finish with good roll off
4.You have to drive them loud, so not for weak sources
5. it protects my ear fatigue significantly

that is the conclusion

KZ iem reacts very good compared to other hybrid 

for example Kinera H3 gets bad 
and some others

it is up-to you, your choice, but upgrade is significant but you will loose the KZ sound 

now its up-to you


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 29, 2018)

mbwilson111 said:


> I feel no need to get an impedance adapter for any of my iems, KZ or otherwise.  Why over complicate everything.


It is similar to using several IEMs - impedance adapters may bring different flavours of sound, especially with multidriver IEMs.
Also impedance matchers may help bring better qualities of your source, especially DAPs (at the expense of some power loss).


----------



## SybilLance

Zerohour88 said:


> like I mentioned previously, a headphone impedance adapter is a different thing compared to a headphone attenuator (iFi Ear Buddy and iEMatch, for example).
> 
> you can find the more technical details here:
> https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/headphone-attenuation-adapter/
> ...





Zerohour88 said:


> ifi iEMatch, a headphone attenuator you can use to reduce hissing for sensitive IEMs or if you want to jack up volume to play with a higher output on your amp (certain amps can have channel imbalance or distortions at lower levels)
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/iematch/



You know I do have an impedance adapter that I bought from a Lazada store in December of last year. It was intended for the red ZS6 i already had at the time.

Long story short, i didn't like it.

When I connected it to the ZS6 and then to my iPhone 6+ (EQ Off) the result was an attenuation in volume approximately equivalent to 3 clicks on the side volume buttons of the iPhone (~about -10.5 dB). It also made everything so much warmer and extremely smooth all the way up. No textures whatsoever. Yes the initial harshness and over-brilliance of the ZS6 did disappear but the smoothness was quite disconcerting. It's like listening to a vinyl tube-amp 2-channel stereo system with the treble turned down. Or, as the thought jumped into my head at the time, like diving into a pool filled with depilatory lotion; the entire skin surface became smooth with all the hair gone, including eyelashes and nose hairs.

So, I read instead the posts of hakuzen (as a lurker here) about his research as regards taming the ZS5 v1 and ZS6, first using EQ, then ball foam tips and that last was the solution for me.

Anyway I dug the adapter up and here it is... a "Shenzhen Audio ZY-031 HiFi Nüwa Copper Top 10cm Impedance Cable" with a Canare F12 plug. All the other details are in the photos. Price then was the equivalent amount of $21.62 US. Now it's $57.98 on Shenzhenaudio.com. Seriously heavy, evidently built like it's part of an armored tank and looks like it could survive a nuclear explosion, much more any random peak bursts (sorry, couldn't resist).
 















Here are screenshots of its Shenzhenaudio.com page (as soon as I read the product description, the same in the Lazada store as it is  below, I ordered it right away—guess I was a bit excited):









I just kept it in a drawer and never thought about taking it out till now. Will try it out with the Cayin N3-Topping NX4 and ZSN sometime.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 29, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> You know I do have an impedance adapter that I bought from a Lazada store in December of last year. It was intended for the red ZS6 i already had at the time.
> 
> Long story short, i didn't like it.
> 
> ...



1. Rewire the two balanced armature in series.
2. Replace the 0402 cap with Panasonic ECPU (use 470n).
3. Remove the 0402 resistor and rewire with a 7.5R Beysclag MELF.

this will solve your KZ ZS6 forever and you can resell me or anyone here these for 500$. i can guarantee you that 

this is the mod i was talking earlier


----------



## Zerohour88

SybilLance said:


> You know I do have an impedance adapter that I bought from a Lazada store in December of last year. It was intended for the red ZS6 i already had at the time.
> 
> Long story short, i didn't like it.
> 
> ...



I'm actually quite wary whether that's an actual headphone attenuator or an headphone impedance adapter (they're not the same thing). One is wired in series, one is wired in parallel. (you can measure it with a multimeter if you have one, the resistance should show different values depending on the points you read from)

Hence my reservations on talking about it here, I don't think any KZ actually needs such an item. In fact, I made the DIY one simply for the CA Andromeda, since that definitely needs an attenuator if your source have either high output impedance or noise floor. I can tell you that the Topping NX4 DSD can run any sensitive IEMs just fine since the Andro also works fine with no hiss on it.

Things can get all jumbled up with all these random info and unclear impressions based on some pseudo-science.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm actually quite wary whether that's an actual headphone attenuator or an headphone impedance adapter (they're not the same thing). One is wired in series, one is wired in parallel. (you can measure it with a multimeter if you have one, the resistance should show different values depending on the points you read from)
> 
> Hence my reservations on talking about it here, I don't think any KZ actually needs such an item. In fact, I made the DIY one simply for the CA Andromeda, since that definitely needs an attenuator if your source have either high output impedance or noise floor. I can tell you that the Topping NX4 DSD can run any sensitive IEMs just fine since the Andro also works fine with no hiss on it.
> 
> Things can get all jumbled up with all these random info and unclear impressions based on some pseudo-science.


Any KZ may be a strong statement.
KS AS10 with its low impedance tends to incur quite a bit of noise from non-ideal sources.


----------



## Conest (Dec 29, 2018)

Definitely gonna buy AS06 and CCA C10 (love my zsn and it would be awesome to see some improvements)... Just waiting for some zs7 reviews..
if they turn out to be good too, I'm golden..
Hey @1clearhead .. how well does c10 hold up against AS10 in soundstage and separation ?


----------



## Zerohour88

PhonoPhi said:


> Any KZ may be a strong statement.
> KS AS10 with its low impedance tends to incur quite a bit of noise from non-ideal sources.



ZS5v1 is also regarded to have low impedance, but I had no issues with any of my sources (unlike the Andromeda). To be fair, I try to remove any weak link in my chain before trying stuff out, so I can't say the same for everyone.

I'd take a very hard look at the actual source/DAP before getting something like the iEMatch for a KZ. 

Regardless, YMMV. Carry on with the impedance talk.


----------



## Conest

mbwilson111 said:


> I feel no need to get an impedance adapter for any of my iems, KZ or otherwise.  Why over complicate everything.


Agreed..
IEM +Good Source + Right eartips (that fit in your ears really well) + nice cable ( if you're into that )..
I think thats just enough... 
(dont really want a mess honestly)..


----------



## PhonoPhi

SybilLance said:


> You know I do have an impedance adapter that I bought from a Lazada store in December of last year. It was intended for the red ZS6 i already had at the time.
> 
> Long story short, i didn't like it.
> 
> ...


My experience is similar to yours. IEmatch altered the signature of AS10 surprisingly, but I do prefer the original signature.


----------



## Conest

Zerohour88 said:


> Regardless, YMMV. Carry on with the impedance talk.


----------



## SybilLance

dhruvmeena96 said:


> 1. Rewire the two balanced armature in series.
> 2. Replace the 0402 cap with Panasonic ECPU (use 470n).
> 3. Remove the 0402 resistor and rewire with a 7.5R Beysclag MELF.
> 
> ...



I'm afraid i don't have the skill set for doing this, even if I were so inclined.

Tell you what, though: why not invest some
money in buying up some ZS6 stock, do the very same modifications you were describing, input some creative bit of marketing (like being your usual self talking Sound Science stuff) and then sell them commercially for ~$500 each? You'll be rich. I can guarantee you that.

Hey Dude, I'm just messing with you. Sorry.  



Zerohour88 said:


> I'm actually quite wary whether that's an actual headphone attenuator or an headphone impedance adapter (they're not the same thing). One is wired in series, one is wired in parallel. (you can measure it with a multimeter if you have one, the resistance should show different values depending on the points you read from)
> 
> Hence my reservations on talking about it here, I don't think any KZ actually needs such an item. In fact, I made the DIY one simply for the CA Andromeda, since that definitely needs an attenuator if your source have either high output impedance or noise floor. I can tell you that the Topping NX4 DSD can run any sensitive IEMs just fine since the Andro also works fine with no hiss on it.
> 
> Things can get all jumbled up with all these random info and unclear impressions based on some pseudo-science.



Well, it did attenuate the volume and smoothed everything. So I guess it's actually a volume and texture attenuator. A heavy-duty one at that.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Zerohour88 said:


> ZS5v1 is also regarded to have low impedance, but I had no issues with any of my sources (unlike the Andromeda). To be fair, I try to remove any weak link in my chain before trying stuff out, so I can't say the same for everyone.
> 
> I'd take a very hard look at the actual source/DAP before getting something like the iEMatch for a KZ.
> 
> Regardless, YMMV. Carry on with the impedance talk.



My DAP gives no noise with KZ AS10.
IEMatch removes noise nicely when AS10 is used with Samsung S9; it is a worthy device for me to have; a DIY similar voltage divider may be more fun.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Conest said:


>


We can just talk about purple and cyan ZSNs
But wait - with those different cables, it is still the "impedance talk"


----------



## Zerohour88

SybilLance said:


> Well, it did attenuate the volume and smoothed everything. So I guess it's actually a volume and texture attenuator. A heavy-duty one at that.



both the impedance adapter and "attenuator" will reduce the volume, but the way an attenuator is designed is to reduce the volume without possibly changing the sound signature (unlike a straight impedance adapter). 

I say possible because some IEM/gear might work with just an impedance adapter, but some might not. Again, hence me not really wanting to talk about it here, it gets a bit convoluted talking about such sound science.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

SybilLance said:


> I'm afraid i don't have the skill set for doing this, even if I were so inclined.
> 
> Tell you what, though: why not invest some
> money in buying up some ZS6 stock, do the very same modifications you were describing, input some creative bit of marketing (like being your usual self talking Sound Science stuff) and then sell them commercially for ~$500 each? You'll be rich. I can guarantee you that.
> ...


I am actually working on my own pair of IEM. Getting my patents for my paper

I am working with Single Knowles FED series driver and extending the lows with a special Helmholtz resonator, peak cancellation tube and horn for amplifying the treble.

Aim is to not use a damper, and get a single driver produce lowest lows and highest highs with lowest distortion

Not gonna leak design, theory is okay


----------



## cleg

gbrgbr said:


> the diameter of the nozzle. Some of us have narrow ear canals. For e.g. I found the ZSA (ZSA has a wider nozzle than the ZSR which fits me OK) just won't fit properly in my ears - it took me pretty long to figure out why


I don't have calipers for exact measurements, but comparing them side by side by eye, ZSA nozzles are a bit wider. AS06 has the same diameter with ZS10, but with small notches for better tips holding



gbrgbr said:


> the type of KZ socket. For e.g. the ZSA (again) has a _angled_ 'A-Paragraph' cable. Many users including myself bought 'B-Paragraph' (since they are angled) upgrade cables and found they don't fit the ZSA


And I don't know what is A-paragraph and B-paragraph, but sockets are similar with ZS10, but AS06 has a bit longer pins


----------



## 1clearhead

Conest said:


> Definitely gonna buy AS06 and CCA C10 (love my zsn and it would be awesome to see some improvements)... Just waiting for some zs7 reviews..
> if they turn out to be good too, I'm golden..
> Hey @1clearhead .. how well does c10 hold up against AS10 in soundstage and separation ?


I don't own the AS10, so I can't say. But, so far the C10 is a true balanced wonder with details galore throughout the whole range!


----------



## SybilLance

Zerohour88 said:


> both the impedance adapter and "attenuator" will reduce the volume, but the way an attenuator is designed is to reduce the volume without possibly changing the sound signature (unlike a straight impedance adapter).
> 
> I say possible because some IEM/gear might work with just an impedance adapter, but some might not. Again, hence me not really wanting to talk about it here, it gets a bit convoluted talking about such sound science.


That was given tongue-in-cheek. Should have included a wink in there. But don't mind me. I guess I'm doing the opposite of whatever menopause is supposed to be.

Or perhaps it's just I'm still tickled purple because the hubby earlier inquired about the availability and price of the CCA C-10 in Shopee. It seems my continuing Year-End Resolution is a success! Here's to hoping the next Innovative Exemplary Monitor KZ (or CCA or TRN or BQEYZ, or whoever else) releases will be $30 or below. I'm willing to bet the KZ team will name it ZSQ.



dhruvmeena96 said:


> I am actually working on my own pair of IEM. Getting my patents for my paper
> 
> I am working with Single Knowles FED series driver and extending the lows with a special Helmholtz resonator, peak cancellation tube and horn for amplifying the treble.
> 
> ...



Go for it! I sincerely wish you success. 

Psst...Keep the price at $30 or below and my husband will be your first buyer and you'll be rich. I guarantee it.


And if ever you'll be needing a creative marketing manager, I'm volunteering my paid services.


----------



## Conest

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I am actually working on my own pair of IEM. Getting my patents for my paper
> 
> I am working with Single Knowles FED series driver and extending the lows with a special Helmholtz resonator, peak cancellation tube and horn for amplifying the treble.
> 
> ...


----------



## HungryPanda

Beating you to it


----------



## dhruvmeena96

HungryPanda said:


> Beating you to it


10$ cases....I know these fancy looking on Ali

There were some semi custom moulds for 40usd with faceplate too.

By the way I am working FED for now, but will shift to RAB


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

C10 and ZS10 both have similar specs and price at the moment on AliExpress. Which one to go for? Have read a few positive impressions for C10. I already own ZSN and absolutely love how they sound. Any suggestions?


----------



## Superluc

Zerohour88 said:


> I
> I don't think any KZ actually needs such an item. In fact, I made the DIY one simply for the CA Andromeda, since that definitely needs an attenuator if your source have either high output impedance or noise floor. I can tell you that the Topping NX4 DSD can run any sensitive IEMs just fine since the Andro also works fine with no hiss on it.



You can't assume that every KZ's user have also good, perfectly fine and costly sources. When you match cheap but sensitive enough IEMs with cheap AMP, DAP, phones or whatever, you can get some hissing also with KZs, and it's just easier/cheaper to put an adapter in between, may be bought for some $ or DIY made, than change the source. 

I was just adding that those kind of cheap solution may also affect a bit the sound, for the best or for the worst, depending on the IEM itself.


----------



## HungryPanda

dhruvmeena96 said:


> 10$ cases....I know these fancy looking on Ali
> 
> There were some semi custom moulds for 40usd with faceplate too.
> 
> By the way I am working FED for now, but will shift to RAB


Got some 10mm Titanium drivers to try first


----------



## PhonoPhi

Dani157 said:


> C10 and ZS10 both have similar specs and price at the moment on AliExpress. Which one to go for? Have read a few positive impressions for C10. I already own ZSN and absolutely love how they sound. Any suggestions?



Arguably,  AS10 is a good step up from ZSN. (I really like both). ZS10 to me is very different.
As stated above, AS10 is quite sensitive to the source, the hiss is noticeable with smartphones and alike.


----------



## Superluc

Dani157 said:


> I already own ZSN and absolutely love how they sound. Any suggestions?


Stay with them, or your love is not true 

They look so beautiful that, if you love how they sound, you'll going to be back to them


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Dec 29, 2018)

Superluc said:


> Stay with them, or your love is not true
> 
> They look so beautiful that, if you love how they sound, you'll going to be back to them


Honestly speaking yes I might do that! I've got purple ones and ZSN is by far my best $10 investment


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

As @1clearhead suggests I'll marry C10s with ZSN. And then take a break from purchasing IEMs for most of 2019


----------



## Conest

Dani157 said:


> As @1clearhead suggests I'll marry C10s with ZSN. And then take a break from purchasing IEMs for most of 2019


Make babies.. make babies..


----------



## loomisjohnson

Hookworms. Great Band.


----------



## Tihstea

LaughMoreDaily said:


> HAHAHA. Good eyes.  That person will also be banned. ;P



What is the seller's name ? My AS10 came with the same warranty card (I can barely see the green bubbles on the bottom of the pic) which I bought from the "AK Audio Store" on ali during the Black Friday sales. Did I get a fake clone or something? I knew I should have bought it from the KZ Official Store...


----------



## mbwilson111

Tihstea said:


> What is the seller's name ? My AS10 came with the same warranty card (I can barely see the green bubbles on the bottom of the pic) which I bought from the "AK Audio Store" on ali during the Black Friday sales. Did I get a fake clone or something? I knew I should have bought it from the KZ Official Store...



Don't worry, the problem has  never been about the product... only about previous business practices.


----------



## Superluc

Dani157 said:


> And then take a break from purchasing IEMs for most of 2019


We all know what will going to happen, we all know...


----------



## Zerohour88 (Dec 29, 2018)

Superluc said:


> You can't assume that every KZ's user have also good, perfectly fine and costly sources. When you match cheap but sensitive enough IEMs with cheap AMP, DAP, phones or whatever, you can get some hissing also with KZs, and it's just easier/cheaper to put an adapter in between, may be bought for some $ or DIY made, than change the source.
> 
> I was just adding that those kind of cheap solution may also affect a bit the sound, for the best or for the worst, depending on the IEM itself.



fair enough, I've shared the DIY guide for the headphone attenuator a few times here before, even before the ramblings started. I've tried it with the Andro and compared it with source that didn't hiss, no noticeable changes in sound sig (and I used super cheap resistors instead of high quality ones)

Like I mentioned previously, better read the full guide first and understand what those 2 adapters actually does before deciding on one.

edit: I'll do one better and include a rough guide on how to measure OI here, so you can also decide on which of the 2 attenuator you need for your source

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...uring_source_output_impedance_an_illustrated/


----------



## Slater

Tihstea said:


> What is the seller's name ? My AS10 came with the same warranty card (I can barely see the green bubbles on the bottom of the pic) which I bought from the "AK Audio Store" on ali during the Black Friday sales. Did I get a fake clone or something? I knew I should have bought it from the KZ Official Store...





mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry, the problem has  never been about the product... only about previous business practices.



AK Audio is A-OK.

No issues, *not* banned, good prices, good service, etc.


----------



## teus

I have the KZ ZSR for a while now, and they're damn awful to wear. The nozzles are very long and they simply fall out all the time. I'm around 1m70, and always have medium tips. For shorter people or with smaller ears, they must be even worse. I can't wrap my mind around it.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Zerohour88 said:


> fair enough, I've shared the DIY guide for the headphone attenuator a few times here before, even before the ramblings started. I've tried it with the Andro and compared it with source that didn't hiss, no noticeable changes in sound sig (and I used super cheap resistors instead of high quality ones)
> 
> Like I mentioned previously, better read the full guide first and understand what those 2 adapters actually does before deciding on one.
> 
> ...


Thanks buddy


----------



## gbrgbr (Dec 29, 2018)

teus said:


> I have the KZ ZSR for a while now, and they're damn awful to wear. The nozzles are very long and they simply fall out all the time. I'm around 1m70, and always have medium tips. For shorter people or with smaller ears, they must be even worse. I can't wrap my mind around it.



Just the opposite for me. ZSR fits like a glove. ZSA not too well.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2663#post-14680330

I doubt it has anything to do with height. Shape and diameter of ear canal most prob. And, diameter of nozzle. (Edit: I'm 5ft 6in)

Wish someone posts which KZs have nozzles similar to ZSR.


----------



## antdroid

Been MIA from the budget IEM threads lately as I've been quite busy with holidays stuff and using my over-ear headphones a lot more lately but just got the KZ AS06 in the mail today. Looks and feels like the AS10, but more bassy out of the box. Need to listen a bit more, obviously. Does not sound super detailed (less so than the ZSN to me on first listen). Will give more impressions later. Also working on my ZSN review next.


----------



## gbrgbr (Dec 30, 2018)

antdroid said:


> . Also working on my ZSN review next.



Please comment on the nozzle shape/length/diameter.
Some of us have like non-standard ear canals 
The ZSA just won't 'stay' in my ears.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2667#post-14683136

Edit : maybe post a pic like :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2663#post-14680330


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Superluc said:


> We all know what will going to happen, we all know...


Fingers crossed


----------



## SybilLance (Dec 30, 2018)

Some 3 or so weeks ago I momentarily stopped listening to my baffling green ZS6 and decided instead to do some comparative listening between the KZ ED16 which I’ve had for several months now and the Purple KZ ZSN with which I’ve logged longer hours.

It wasn’t easy.

The shape and especially the length of the ED16’s shell, its short nozzle and the latter’s projection angle are sadly not ideal for me; to achieve a good fit and seal I have to twist it 2 or 3 times further inward but that prow-like edge at the base of the nozzle would cut into my concha cavum and it Hurts. The resultant very tender twin indentations in my ears at present preclude any in-ear listening for the next day or 2 perhaps but that does not mean I don’t like the ED16’s sound—for certain recordings, anyway.

To be fair all listening with the ED16 was done after a rest period sufficient to make the pain go away such that every time I start fresh. I’d listen to a track with the ZSN first then would switch to the ED16.





*Quick rundown of impressions, ED16 vs. ZSN:*

ED16 is warmer; ZSN is brighter.

ZSN is louder.

Initial perception of bass to middle range is quite similar for both but in time I could hear differences becoming evident: both have deep sub-bass but ED16 mid-bass has more impact; both have an upper bass that slightly intrudes or bleeds into the lower mid-range, but I encountered more of this occurrence with the ED16; ZSN bass has more of a finer grain, is less reverberant (the word is dry..?), thus more resolving.

Female voices have more body in the ED16; it will reveal why Sarah Vaughan is called “The Divine One”. By comparison vocals seem somewhat thinner with the ZSN yet more energetic, perhaps because they sound closer. As a whole mid-range in both are rather balanced, not as recessed, with regard to the rest of the frequency range compared to my few other earphones: KZ ZS6, KZ5 v1, KZ ATE c. 2016, QKZ DM300, Vido MX500, the Sennheiser IE80 (at its middle setting), save for the Ostry KC06.

Differences become pronounced from the upper mids up: ED16 is more prone to vocal sibilance (harsh S, T and Z and other fricative and affricate consonants generally heard from 4-5 KHz and oftentimes up to 8 or even 10 KHz); ED16 seems to resolve just a tiny bit more detail, drawing more textures but sometimes at the expense of tonality—drum brushes, hi-hats, ride cymbals somehow sound off, artificial; I perceive them as more natural with the ZSN; higher-pitched wind and string instruments seem a wee bit more defined in the ED16 at around 8-10 KHz, but definition starts to be lost beyond that; ZSN has a tad less definition but has more extension; there’s more of a sense of air with the ZSN.

Imaging, which is the reproduction of localization and spatial cues inherent in a recording, is very good in both. It is with the space and environment of the perception of the sound field that has to be created by the in-ear where the difference is stark; with the ED16 there’s this cognition of distance between you and the performers while proximity and intimacy characterize the ZSN. In well-engineered albums where care is given to arrangement or orchestration of instrument effects, like those of Steely Dan or generally in Chesky recordings, with the ED16 these effects, despite being all present, seem to be removed from the main instrument mix and merely stay in the background; whereas in the ZSN all these seem closer and delineated, as if at the exact moment a certain instrument stepped forward and made its presence clearly known.


*Summary*

Altogether, I would have liked to listen to female vocals and small intimate acoustic sets with guitars, or chamber music, with the ED16, if only I could listen for any length of time without the distraction of ear pain. The superlative binaural _Three For All _of the Bucky Pizzarelli Trio (Chesky, 2014) made me sit up straight as soon as it started with the ED16, and I’ve listened to this album countless times before with the ZS6.

Unfortunately with the ED16 I could only listen to an average of 3 or 4 tracks at a time. Going through entire albums or orchestral recordings would be painful and would leave those aforesaid twin indentations that would still be sore a day after. That was the case with my last session with them listening to Gershwin’s _Rhapsody in Blue_ and _American in Paris Suite._

The ED16, foremost, does not seem to have that extension at the higher range of the audible frequency spectrum. Within its confines it is a capable in-ear: deep sub-bass, strong mid-bass punch, a warm mid-range relatively rich in its presentation and sufficiently detailed in the presence until midway up the brilliance region. However, that strong mid-bass also results in masking of low mid-range details in complex tracks. That boost in said presence and brilliance regions also gives rise to an artificial sheen to certain instruments and more instances of sibilance.

As for the ZSN it is now clear to me it is not without its flaws—“limitations” would be more apropos, I think. However it and the Sennheiser IE80 are the most comfortable in-ears I own, or have yet tried. Its end-to-end extension makes it more than adequate. It is great. Easily driven, it imparts an infectious energy to music that translates to toe-trapping, head-bobbing and finger-snapping. If I’m simply rocking or grooving to my music, not doing any of that critical listening stuff (which is probably 99.9% of the time) it is a Fun IEM. As much Fun as my red ZS6 with the round NiceHCK foam ear tips.




Spoiler: Reference Notes



*Reference Notes


 *

Comparative adjectives are used strictly within the context of how the 2 earphones compare to each other, unless otherwise specified.

These impressions were obtained alternately listening to the same reference tracks through the same gear setup (Cayin N3 low gain, Super Slow filter, EQ off, line out using FiiO L16 IC to Topping NX4 low gain, bass boost off, volume matched by ear as nearly as possible) and using the same generic medium-bore soft gray silicone tips with red cores. The purple ZSN has its stock cable while the ED16 has the type “A” brown SPC upgrade although I must admit I don’t hear any discernible difference among all my cables.

ZSN was set a little above 9:00 o’clock on the Topping NX4 volume pot while the ED16 ~halfway between 10:00 and 11:00 o’clock. That’s roughly a click of the iPhone 6+ side volume button (+3.5 dB) with an additional fractional move up its volume slider (~+2 dB). I’d like to emphasize all these are approximations. Many with better hearing and many others undoubtedly more authoritative on the subject will assert that volume- or level-matching by ear is questionable at best. In fine I’m merely stating that at least I tried.

Further I must note here that, coming from 2-channel stereo, my perception and definition of “soundstage” has always been in that regard; i.e., what I could hear when seated at the sweet spot of 2 stereo loudspeakers properly toed in, and with the various interactions of the sound waves with the topology of my listening room. Well, I’ve only heard a few earphones (mine and my husband’s) but I have yet to perceive that out-of-the-head field of sound with that phantom center channel some 10 virtual feet or so in front when listening to them, like I could to an extent with the HiFiMAN HE-400i. The KZ ZS5 v1 probably comes closest, but then its insertion depth should be just right, perhaps so that those vents aren’t blocked. Any deeper and the sense of an expansive sound field disappears; a more shallow placement would already alter the sound and of course a sudden turn of the head will have them falling off. Anyhow for this comparison I have to say that both KZ models though sounding markedly different still have their sound confined within my head.

On this subject I find this page and its related links quite fascinating:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/soundstage

I am also trying to reconcile the ideas put forward in said Rtings page—to which my own notions seem to jibe—with the thought-provoking theories put forward by darth nut in this prodigious effort:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-a-review-after-4-years-of-ownership.40313/


Some albums (only certain tracks unless specified) used for reference, in no particular order:

_Sound the Trumpets_ - Alison Balsom (2012)
_Bach: The Cello Suites_ - Steven Isserlis (2007)
_Vivaldi: The Four Seasons_ - Julia Fischer with Academy of St. Martin in the Fields DVD (2.0 LPCM, 2002)
_Wood II_ - Brian Bromberg (2006)
_Mingus Ah Um_ - Charles Mingus (1959, 1997)
_Like Minds_ - Burton, Corea, Metheny, Haynes & Holland (1998)
_Eagles:The Complete Greatest Hits_ - Eagles (2003)
_Stepping Out_ - Diana Krall (1993, 2016)
_Stripped_ - Macy Gray (2016)
_Ultimate Demonstration Disc_ whole album (Chesky,  1995)
_Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc_ whole album (Chesky,  2014)
Steely Dan: _The Royal Scam_ (1976), _Aja_ (1977), _Gaucho_ (1980), _Two Against Nature_ (2000)
_The Nightfly_ - Donald Fagen (1982)
_Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, American in Paris_ whole album - Leonard Bernstein, piano & conductor, Columbia Symphony & New York Philharmonic Orchestras
_Paglingon: Return of the Native_ - Jacqui Magno (2000)
_Live From Studio A in New York_ - Johnny Frigo with Bucky & John Pizzarelli (1988)
_Birth of the Cool_ - Miles Davis (1949, 2000)
_Kind of Blue_ - Miles Davis (1959, 2015, MFSL)
_Sketches of Spain_ - Miles Davis (1960, 1997)
_Bitches Brew_ - Miles Davis (1970)
_Come Away With Me_ - Norah Jones (2002, 2014)
_Billie Holiday at Jazz at the Philharmonic_ - Billie Holiday (1954, 2015)
_Dream A Dream_ - Charlotte Church (2000)
_The Guitar Trio_ - Paco De Lucia, Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin (1996)
_Queen: Greatest Hits_ - Queen (2011)
_Saint-Saens Concertos_ - Yo-Yo Ma, Cecil Licad, Cho-Liang Lin (1990)
_Live at Rosy's_ - Sarah Vaughan (1978, 2016)
_Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band_ 50th Anniversary Album - The Beatles (2017)
_Abbey Road_ - The Beatles (1969, 2009)
_Let It Be_ - The Beatles (1970, 2009)
_Time Out_ - Dave Brubeck Quartet (1959)
_Time In_ - Dave Brubeck Quartet (1966)
_Time Further Out_ - Dave Brubeck Quartet (1961)
_Vocalese_ - The Manhattan Transfer (1985)
_Mecca for Moderns_ - Manhattan Transfer (1981)
_Ella and Louis_ - Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong (2014)
_Heavy Weather_ - Weather Report (1967)
_Sunday at the Village Vanguard_ - Bill Evans Trio (1961)
_Three For All _of the Bucky Pizzarelli Trio (Chesky, 2014)
_Haydn: Three Favorite Concertos_ - Wynton Marsalis, Yo-Yo Ma, Cho-Liang Lin (1990)


Oh! One other thing: a year or so ago I could hear the 15KHz tone at the end of the Beatles' _A Day In The Life_ (Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band 50th Anniversary, 2017); now I couldn't.



Edit: Added Pics, fixed errors.


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## CoiL

ZSN does not have deep sub-bass (pretty fast roll-off) and is mid-bass "elevated" compared to sub-bass. This is confirmed by FR graphs.
What I`ve noticed in chi-fi threads is that many confuse mid-bass and sub-bass (maybe it has something to do with personal music preferences idk). Take a look at FR graphs and things become clear. Take some tone generator tests and things become even more clear.


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## teus

gbrgbr said:


> Just the opposite for me. ZSR fits like a glove. ZSA not too well.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2663#post-14680330
> 
> I doubt it has anything to do with height. Shape and diameter of ear canal most prob. And, diameter of nozzle. (Edit: I'm 5ft 6in)
> ...


that's interesting. maybe over the ear IEM's have more variation in fitment than the normal ones.
maybe the ZST will fit you?


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## HAMS (Dec 30, 2018)

CoiL said:


> ZSN does not have deep sub-bass (pretty fast roll-off) and is mid-bass "elevated" compared to sub-bass. This is confirmed by FR graphs.
> What I`ve noticed in chi-fi threads is that many confuse mid-bass and sub-bass (maybe it has something to do with personal music preferences idk). Take a look at FR graphs and things become clear. Take some tone generator tests and things become even more clear.


My understanding is sub-bass is bellow 100hz and mid bass are between 100hz to 200hz? Alot of graphs rarely showing midbass above sub-bass level. So I'm often confused when people say ''not enough sub-bass" and "too much midbass."


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## PhonoPhi

HAMS said:


> My understanding is sub-bass is bellow 100hz and mid bass are between 100hz to 200hz? Alot of graphs rarely showing midbass above sub-bass level. So I'm often confused when people say ''not enough sub-bass" and "too much midbass."


Sub-bass is commonly defined to be below 60 Hz (20 Hz to 60 Hz).


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## PhonoPhi

PhonoPhi said:


> Sub-bass is commonly defined to be below 60 Hz (20 Hz to 60 Hz).


A related question - how many KZs really go below 20 Hz, for instance to reproduce the lowest organ notes?


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## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 30, 2018)

HAMS said:


> My understanding is sub-bass is bellow 100hz and mid bass are between 100hz to 200hz? Alot of graphs rarely showing midbass above sub-bass level. So I'm often confused when people say ''not enough sub-bass" and "too much midbass."


The human voice has a frequency range from down 100 Hz (Bass singing the low F at 87.3 Hz) upto around 1kHz (Soprano singing the high C3 at 1046 Hz). Upper Bass is starts from 98Hz and end at 82Hz, and then from 82Hz to 40Hz is all Mid bass, after that is the realm of Sub bass which end at 20Hz. after 20Hz is the realm of infrasonic, which feels like chest thump in PA speakers in club house or parties or the feeling of driver moving in and out in earphones.

above 1047Hz is Harmonics, which goes upto 4kHz. This is place which decides image of instrument and energy of vocal. It also define the space structure and Vocalist throat nature. Ocharaku Shizuku does this better than any IEM, and i mean this list goes upto the flagship. When this area is tuned properly, it gives the bell like high and balance the throat of singer. Above 4kHz is the Treble.
4kHz to 6kHz is lower treble and resonance area, this has to be tuned perfectly. When people say that this piece of earphone not my cup of tea, but some reviews them fantastic, is due to your ear resonance and earphone tuning didn't match, but his match. This area provides Naturalness and Instrument to Instrument space, amount and nature of Tape Hiss. Blackness of IEM said by some reviewers is due to this. 6kHz to 12kHz is mid treble is critical resonance area. Ear canal length is normally between 25mm to 32mm, which leads to ear critical resonance in sealed IEM between 5.8kHz to 6.8kHz. This area decides size of space and amount of ear fatigue you are going to receive. This area decides the energy of Harmonics which lead to exact placement of vocalist to instrument in given space.

after that is a lovely thing which i call air. I dont know why people dont focus on this area. This gives the ambience to sound. helps in removing the wall, or extension of size and makes gradual extension of echoes. that why i hate dampers in sound tunnel.

This may help you guys understand the sound


i tried to make it as simple as i can. It is from my research paper.

calculation of eardrum is removed and Resonator is removed otherwise my post will fill a page or two

I am sorry for posting Technical info again


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## dhruvmeena96

PhonoPhi said:


> A related question - how many KZs really go below 20 Hz, for instance to reproduce the lowest organ notes?


KZ ES3, but it is muddy


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## HAMS

For me when using EQ, boosting too much sub-bass bellow 50hz relative to 100hz just make the bass sound slow and doesn't necessarily give the impact I want.


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## mbwilson111

SybilLance said:


> The shape and especially the length of the ED16’s shell, its short nozzle and the latter’s projection angle are sadly not ideal for me; to achieve a good fit and seal I have to twist it 2 or 3 times further inward but that prow-like edge at the base of the nozzle would cut into my concha cavum and it Hurts.



This is why I have Spinfit tips on mine... the first ones I used Spinfits for.


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## SybilLance (Dec 30, 2018)

CoiL said:


> ZSN does not have deep sub-bass (pretty fast roll-off) and is mid-bass "elevated" compared to sub-bass. This is confirmed by FR graphs.
> What I`ve noticed in chi-fi threads is that many confuse mid-bass and sub-bass (maybe it has something to do with personal music preferences idk). Take a look at FR graphs and things become clear. Take some tone generator tests and things become even more clear.




Perhaps, @CoiL you failed to read the Reference Notes in the Spoiler. Its opening sentence states, categorically,

“Comparative adjectives are used strictly within the context of how the 2 earphones compare to each other, unless otherwise specified.”

Uhmm… alright. 

I mentioned here that I came from a 2-channel stereo background. The love and affinity for music through stereo began with my father, who, I have also mentioned here, built his own Heathkit tube amplifier and pre-amplifier and DIY 3-way stereo speakers, to go with his battered Garrard turntable. That was when I was a baby. During the early ‘60s. As a child I learned what is bass and what is treble sitting on his knees as he was fiddling with the knobs of his pre-amp and telling me the distinction while listening to Louis Armstrong, George Gershwin and John Philip Sousa. During high school (mid-‘70s) I was already deep into music theory since I had lofty ambitions of being a musician. The passion for 2-channel audio continued well into college (late '70s to early '80s) where I together with my peers formed our own amateur “Stereo Society”. I have listened to systems fussed over with anal obsessiveness by their owners, systems that would not be out of place in any “audiophile” showroom or magazine. I have participated in double-blind stereo listening tests set up by my husband and his science geek friends just for fun. I know the distinction and gradations among the seven frequency bands of the audible frequency spectrum, and which particular musical instruments with their characteristic sounds fall into these ranges. 

I would know the difference between sub-bass and, as popularly known and recognized, mid-bass. I would not confuse one with the other.


To be technically strict there are only 2 bass ranges, the sub-bass (20-60 Hz) and bass (60-250 Hz); but convention here further divides the bass range into mid-bass (60-125 Hz) and upper-bass (125-250 Hz) so, inasmuch as I’ve been conforming to it as well, it is not a problem.

The KZ ZSN does not have a “pretty fast roll-off” in its bass range. Rather, it has a more or less linear bass response, extending all the way down to the lowest registers, with just the slightest of mid-bass humps. This is what I hear, clear as a summer day at noontime.

As for frequency response (FR) graphs of the ZSN, I’m afraid I don’t have the requisite measuring equipment nor do I have access to them. I seem to recall, however, that antdroid has posted one that shows the frequency response curve of the ZSN as measured on his set-up or a link to it. Allow me time to search for it.

Tone generator tests in so far as I am concerned would be moot, unless again, the necessary equipment is there for evidentiary presentation.

If the FR graph alluded to that would tend to sustain the claim of the ZSN’s bass being sharply rolled off were presented with relevant information on how it was obtained, I would be most happy and receptive of the effort. This after all is a thread dedicated to impressions of KZ products, as indeed my post is.

Cheers! 




PS: I made an unfortunate mistake, and I am sorry. Post edited accordingly.


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## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 30, 2018)

..................


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## SybilLance (Dec 30, 2018)

Removed as courtesy.


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## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 30, 2018)

..........................................


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## CoiL (Dec 30, 2018)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> The human voice has a frequency range from down 100 Hz (Bass singing the low F at 87.3 Hz) upto around 1kHz (Soprano singing the high C3 at 1046 Hz). Upper Bass is starts from 98Hz and end at 82Hz, and then from 82Hz to 40Hz is all Mid bass, after that is the realm of Sub bass which end at 20Hz. after 20Hz is the realm of infrasonic, which feels like chest thump in PA speakers in club house or parties or the feeling of driver moving in and out in earphones.
> 
> above 1047Hz is Harmonics, which goes upto 4kHz. This is place which decides image of instrument and energy of vocal. It also define the space structure and Vocalist throat nature. Ocharaku Shizuku does this better than any IEM, and i mean this list goes upto the flagship. When this area is tuned properly, it gives the bell like high and balance the throat of singer. Above 4kHz is the Treble.
> 4kHz to 6kHz is lower treble and resonance area, this has to be tuned perfectly. When people say that this piece of earphone not my cup of tea, but some reviews them fantastic, is due to your ear resonance and earphone tuning didn't match, but his match. This area provides Naturalness and Instrument to Instrument space, amount and nature of Tape Hiss. Blackness of IEM said by some reviewers is due to this. 6kHz to 12kHz is mid treble is critical resonance area. Ear canal length is normally between 25mm to 32mm, which leads to ear critical resonance in sealed IEM between 5.8kHz to 6.8kHz. This area decides size of space and amount of ear fatigue you are going to receive. This area decides the energy of Harmonics which lead to exact placement of vocalist to instrument in given space.
> ...


Nice simple explanation.


HAMS said:


> For me when using EQ, boosting too much sub-bass bellow 50hz relative to 100hz just make the bass sound slow and doesn't necessarily give the impact I want.


That "impact" of ZSN comes mainly from mid-bass area and EQ can`t alway resolve/eliminate unwanted "problems". That`s why properly tuned driver is very important.
But this is all very subjective too. I personally hate every bit of raised mid-bass. I get fatigue from it very fast and my ears start "to hear" that area dominating.
Edited out some unneeded content.

Our hearing, gear and preferences are different and subjective and my subjective opinion about ZSN was that it doesn`t do sub-bass so well as it could do (without EQ) compared to other IEMs. I mean, for example when I compare ZSN sub-bass with IT01, there is noticeable "roll-off" in my eyes&ears down from about 45Hz @ ZSN.


Spoiler: KZ ZSN & IT01 FR graphs (credit goes to Otto-motor & his friend)















I hope KZ "fans" now know what I mean about ZSN sub-bass "roll-off". Once You have experienced such difference in sub-bass area, You know what sub-bass extension is.
Note that I`m not bass-head and have reduced my IT01 whole bass area with modification (sub-bass tad more than mid-bass). In stock, IT01 sub-bass was tad too much and "overtaking" mid-bass. Now if someone could slightly bring down ZSN mid-bass area, it would be much more linear and "diving" in bass range and also midrange would be slightly more "revealed".


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## dhruvmeena96

@CoiL my offer is still there you know

Making an IEM


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## Luxed

I've been reading for over a hundred pages now and it's starting to get annoying to have to read 10 pages to have information and opinions on the topic (kz products). I don't care about a little off topic here and there (like the car analogy that happened once, that was fun).
I have learned a lot by staying here for a while, but now that I understood how ChiFi worked and more on how IEMs are made, I'm ready to do my research alone. 
I really don't care about the cable differences (does it work? Yes, then it's all good), what sub bass' frequency range is (if it shakes its sub bass for me) and the unconditional love for FR graphs, it's good to know how something sounds in a controlled environment but it's not a real representation of how it will sound to ME.

Anyway, rant over. (still love you guys, you're all cool, mostly (appart from that guy that was always saying that the RN qt2 is the best thing in the world...)) 
Going back on KZ stuff, my sister asked me before Christmas if she could have an adapter to plus her iPhone earbuds (lightning cable, not 3.5mm) into her new Samsung galaxy. Of course my first reaction was ewwwwww. So I promptly made her try my ZSN with some music that she likes and she simply said : "they're really good". So now I don't have my purple ZSN anymore 
I don't know if I'll buy another one, it sounded really good but I think I like my AS10 more for now and I want to try other brands too.


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## CoiL

dhruvmeena96 said:


> @CoiL my offer is still there you know
> Making an IEM


With joking - You should then "swallow down" my branding & logo and wait for proper full-wood housing (which is still in endless testing and changing)


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## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> With joking - You should then "swallow down" my branding & logo and wait for proper full-wood housing (which is still in endless testing and changing)


The word

With joking

Cannot trust you on that


You can release it like a  surprise..... And I am sure of that


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## Slater

Luxed said:


> I've been reading for over a hundred pages now and it's starting to get annoying to have to read 10 pages to have information and opinions on the topic (kz products). I don't care about a little off topic here and there (like the car analogy that happened once, that was fun).
> 
> Anyway, rant over. (still love you guys, you're all cool, mostly (apart from that guy that was always saying that the RN qt2 is the best thing in the world...))



2 words: Marshall Mode

haha


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## HungryPanda

Slater said:


> 2 words: Marshall Mode
> 
> haha


Goddam you made me laugh out on the train


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## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Goddam you made me laugh out on the train



Is laughter not allowed on trains?


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## SybilLance

> Um, m`kay. I do not know what so say. Sorry that I upset You with my generalizing statement and took it offending and personal. This was not directed to You.
> Our hearing, gear and preferences are different and subjective and my subjective opinion about ZSN was that it doesn`t do sub-bass so well as it could do (without EQ) compared to other IEMs. I mean, for example when I compare ZSN sub-bass with IT01, there is noticeable "roll-off" in my eyes&ears down from about 45Hz @ ZSN.
> 
> I hope KZ "fans" now know what I mean about ZSN sub-bass "roll-off". Once You have experienced such difference in sub-bass area, You know what sub-bass extension is.
> Note that I`m not bass-head and have reduced my IT01 whole bass area with modification (sub-bass tad more than mid-bass). In stock, IT01 sub-bass was tad too much and "overtaking" mid-bass. Now if someone could slightly bring down ZSN mid-bass area, it would be much more linear and "diving" in bass range and also midrange would be slightly more "revealed".



I gladly accept your apology, and offer mine in return. Perhaps I was too hasty and too sensitive as regards a contrary reaction to something I've posted. Or perhaps it's the pesky mood swings again.  Yesterday I was too irreverent, especially towards dhruvmeena, and now I was certainly too formal with you both. I'm sorry.

But hey, you've suggested I look at ZSN frequency response graphs so I could realize the error of my bass. 

I'm never one to back away from a challenge, and so I did, happy to prove you wrong. Not only do I have the graphs, but I had also gone over the 6 extant reviews of the KZ ZSN in headfi.org in order to see if, indeed, the ZSN does not have deep sub-bass, since its bass “rolls off pretty fast.” The latter quoted phrase is understood by me to mean “rolls off rapidly” or “rolls off quickly” or “rolls off sharply.”


First the graphs:

1. From https://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zsn-review:






_“The KZ ZSN bass is rich and vivacious. Mid-bass is extremely punchy yet not too bouncy nor boomy and sub-bass is very deep.”_

A 6 or 7dB drop from 60 Hz to 20 Hz is not “pretty fast” or rapid or quick or sharp by any means. And the reviewer from thephonograph.net (although I've read one or two comments here to the effect his reviews should be taken with a grain of salt) says, I repeat, the "sub-bass is very deep".


2. From https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-earphone-review/:







_“The KZ ZSN has a mild V-shaped signature *with a particular emphasis on the sub-bass*. Apart from the sub-bass the rest of the presentation is fairly balanced but quite lean with a slightly recessed midrange.”_

There is approximately a 2.5 dB drop from 50 Hz to 20 Hz, an even more gentle slope. And I underscored and *made bold* that part where crabdog states, "...with a particular emphasis on the sub-bass."


3. From https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/9uhvs3/kz_zsn_frequency_response_chart/:







_“Just measured the KZ ZSN, the new $20-ish IEM. It's the bright pink one in the chart.

Just very quick impressions:

Good build quality. Metal plate with nice acrylic housing. Improved cable connector/cable. The sound signature is definitely in line with my personal preferences, which is a welcomed change. Have only listened to two songs with it and seems like a good value already. Not ultra detailed, but really do enjoy the more linear bass response.

 Pink: KZ ZSN
 Black: KZ AS10
 Green: KZ ZSA
 Blue: Tin Audio T2
 Light Gray: TRN V80

 FR IEM Diffuse Field Compensation: https://imgur.com/a/2BVZ89m”_

--post by antdroidx







The poster, antdroid, describes the ZSN as having a “more linear bass response.” That much is evident in both the raw and compensated graphs he posted, that I’m happy to say, accurately coincide with what I described hearing, earlier.

Four distinct and separate graphs from three different individuals, two of them well-known in head-fi, that clearly show the ZSN is capable of reproducing deep sub-bass frequencies.

Next the head-fi.org reviews, with direct quotes therefrom, but better placed in a Spoiler:



Spoiler: Impressions of ZSN Bass and Sub-Bass from Head-fi Reviews



1. KZ ZSN: $20 has never gone so far
Written by B9Scrambler
Published Oct 27, 2018

_“Bass is lovely with great extension and a satisfying balance between mid- and sub-bass. It is nice and quick with impressive double bass articulation as heard on Havok's ‘D.O.A’…” _

2. Knowledge Zenith ZSN Realview.
Written by Johnny Mac
Published Nov 17, 2018

_“…The ZSN's lows was tested using Deadmau5's Deus Ex Machina track which has a load of sub bass and bass. The sub bass drops are indeed powerful on the ZSN and is sensibly and audibly felt while bass thumps are impactful and has great air giving a fat sound yet still not congesting towards the midrange frequency. This will satisfy basshead cravings.”_

3. KZ ZSN | Rating: 8.3
Written by DallaPo
Published Dec 14, 2018

_“The bass is really convincing and finds a good balance between sub-bass and mid-bass. It reacts quickly and precisely without slipping into the midrange. It's really fun, as it not only punches well, but is also very accurate tonally, which benefits demanding bass lines.”_

4. Mostly good but not without flaws
Written by SweetEars
Published Dec 15, 2018

_“…The bass is around the right amount, not too little nor excessive. it has a mild V shaped signature but more forward vocal signature. The mids are in front of u, There is a good surround effect but the the whole sound signature is more forward than with an emphasis on a V shape mid and sub bass. To some, the whole sound signature may look strange or convulated [sic].

The sub bass is adequate...the mid bass is average.”_

5. KZ ZSN - Also known as the ZsT version 2.0
Written by Wiljen
Published Dec 18, 2018

_“Sub-bass is good in both depth and quantity with good quickness and decay too. It does not have as much rumble of some other Kz models (Zs6) but instead exhibits better control over what it does have. Mid-bass is well controlled as well and is slightly forward of the sub-bass but again not nearly as much as some other Kz models…”_

6. KZ ZSN
Written by thelittleaudiophile
Published Thursday at 9:35 PM

“_The bass region on the ZSN is thick and visceral. This is paired with a fantastic sub-bass extension and presence which never leaves you wanting more if you are listening to pop or other bass-heavy genres. There is a greater emphasis on mid-bass than sub-bass which I can appreciate – too much sub-bass would devolve into becoming unnatural and quite nauseating for me…”_



A perspicacious reading of all 6 reviewers’ descriptions of the ZSN’s bass does point to a common perception of deep sub-bass. Even if all 6 were wrong, I’m still glad to say I’m in very good company.

Admittedly the subjective impressions from the said 6 ZSN reviews could be assailed as a form of the logical fallacy of proof by numbers.

Those 3 FR graphs cannot be altogether wrong, however.

I rest my case.


----------



## mbwilson111

This is all getting to be too much for me.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

SybilLance said:


> I gladly accept your apology, and offer mine in return. Perhaps I was too hasty and too sensitive as regards a contrary reaction to something I've posted. Or perhaps it's the pesky mood swings again.  Yesterday I was too irreverent, especially towards dhruvmeena, and now I was certainly too formal with you both. I'm sorry.
> 
> But hey, you've suggested I look at ZSN frequency response graphs so I could realize the error of my bass.
> 
> ...


Well I supported you there for linear bass but as we go down in sub bass, it rolls off but very slowly....


----------



## mbwilson111

just stop


----------



## SybilLance

Slater said:


> 2 words: Marshall Mode
> 
> haha


LOL. I remember reading the Marshall Mode exchanges in my lurker days. And I know the feeling. I also have new insight into the syndrome. So,


----------



## Conest

mbwilson111 said:


> This is all getting to be too much for me.


Happy to join the team..


----------



## Conest

HungryPanda said:


> Goddam you made me laugh out on the train





 
*When i dont get it*


----------



## CoiL

All I have to say @SybilLance , FR measurements done by different measuring gear, compensation, calibration etc. can look littlebit different and few dB difference can make pretty "huge" difference in sub-bass, depending on source gear and music. If You look at my provided "otto-graph" it looks quite a bit different.
And like I already told, it is my subjective opinion about ZSN sub-bass not objective/collective/statistic like Yours which I`m ok with too.
You don`t like my opinion, ok, fine, after all it is just my opinion in big big internet, which doesn`t count anyway  
But if it makes You happy - Yes YOU are right and I`m wrong.
I really don`t care


----------



## SybilLance

CoiL said:


> All I have to say @SybilLance , FR measurements done by different measuring gear, compensation, calibration etc. can look littlebit different and few dB difference can make pretty "huge" difference in sub-bass, depending on source gear and music. If You look at my provided "otto-graph" it looks quite a bit different.
> And like I already told, it is my subjective opinion about ZSN sub-bass not objective/collective/statistic like Yours which I`m ok with too.
> You don`t like my opinion, ok, fine, after all it is just my opinion in big big internet, which doesn`t count anyway
> But if it makes You happy - Yes YOU are right and I`m wrong.
> I really don`t care


Ha ha ha! You're the one who brought up FR graphs in the first place, and I was the one who kept repeating what I posted are subjective impressions. 

It's just that I do love a healthy discussion every once in a while, and not one to shrink from a friendly challenge. As I've also repeated, I'm your average but curious lay person with no pretensions to knowing, much less understanding, all the things being talked about here. If I'm proven right, I'm glad. If I'm proven wrong, I'll accept it, although I'll be sad for some time. I'm mostly impersonal on things, as that's the nature of my profession. Well, unless provoked. 

Anyway, where you truly err is thinking I don't like your opinion. I value your opinion and I respect it. In fact from this running discussion I have learned so many things heretofore unknown to me. It was unfortunate that I misconstrued your earlier response and read too much from it. For that I am genuinely sorry.

Meantime, I'm quite happy back to listening to music with the new green ZS6, although it also baffles me because of its distinctly different character compared to the red one. I'm trying to put my finger on where exactly does it differ. Well, at least until the AS06 arrives.


----------



## Conest

Cant wait for some ZS7 impressions.. they're legit though as mikesoke posted his earlier thoughts about zs7 sound quality and a pic too..
Seems promising..


----------



## Zerohour88

Conest said:


> Happy to join the team..



got another empty spot?



Conest said:


> Cant wait for some ZS7 impressions.. they're legit though as mikesoke posted his earlier thoughts about zs7 sound quality and a pic too..
> Seems promising..



still not up on their official channels too, starting to look like another ZSR/ED16 situation. Not that it matters much, I think both are still sold freely? One difference is that still only 2 stores offers the ZS7 (which means no stocks here )


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Dec 30, 2018)

SybilLance said:


> Ha ha ha! You're the one who brought up FR graphs in the first place, and I was the one who kept repeating what I posted are subjective impressions.
> 
> It's just that I do love a healthy discussion every once in a while, and not one to shrink from a friendly challenge. As I've also repeated, I'm your average but curious lay person with no pretensions to knowing, much less understanding, all the things being talked about here. If I'm proven right, I'm glad. If I'm proven wrong, I'll accept it, although I'll be sad for some time. I'm mostly impersonal on things, as that's the nature of my profession. Well, unless provoked.
> 
> ...


New Green ZS6 and it is different compared to red.....hhhhmmmmmmm
can you please explain how.
hmmmmmmmm

well according to @Slater there was no v2 in ZS6 lineup, just the nozzle facelift(The nozzle was able to hold tip better) on grey model

can you explain how it is different



Conest said:


> *When i dont get it*


He was on train, and he laughed....thats all
lol



Conest said:


> Happy to join the team..



hhhmmmmmmmmmmm


@mbwilson111 Well KZ actually listened to your request and released purple KZ ZSN

You are the boss


----------



## SybilLance

*HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!*​






*HAPPINESS, 
GOOD HEALTH
     & GOOD FORTUNE  
         EVERYONE!!! *​


----------



## dhruvmeena96

SybilLance said:


> *HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!*​
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Happy new year
is that SHP9500... Nice


----------



## Conest

Zerohour88 said:


> got another empty spot?


----------



## Sebilion

Hello everyone. I just bought a 6 core copper plated **** cable from amazon. The problem is that there is no indication as to which is left and which is right. Just colours. One is red and the other one is white. I put my right earphone to the red and the left to the white, but I have no idea if that is correct and I am no expert so I don't know if I can tell the difference. Does anyone know which is which?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 31, 2018)

Sebilion said:


> Hello everyone. I just bought a 6 core copper plated **** cable from amazon. The problem is that there is no indication as to which is left and which is right. Just colours. One is red and the other one is white. I put my right earphone to the red and the left to the white, but I have no idea if that is correct and I am no expert so I don't know if I can tell the difference. Does anyone know which is which?



Red usually does mean right. It is good to have a song to use for testing right and left whenever you get a new iem or cable.  If you have a favorite song that has a certain sound that appears on one side, use that.  Otherwise there are online sound checks.

https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


----------



## Sebilion

mbwilson111 said:


> Red usually does mean right. It is good to have a song to use for testing right and left whenever you get a new iem or cable.  If you have a favorite song that has a certain sound that appears on one side, use that.  Otherwise there are online sound checks.
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


I figured it out accidentally. I went to my Samsung equalizer and wanted to create a new sound profile to see if there is a difference with the new cable. And it started making noices and changing the eq for left and right. I had them correctly,  the red one was right.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 31, 2018)

My latest top list of in-ear earphones are up at my profile page!

Click link below to know more...
 Post #20974

Enjoy! 

Happy New Year!  


-Clear


----------



## Slater

Sebilion said:


> I figured it out accidentally. I went to my Samsung equalizer and wanted to create a new sound profile to see if there is a difference with the new cable. And it started making noices and changing the eq for left and right. I had them correctly,  the red one was right.



Did you test the phase as well?

I always test the phase on IEMs and cables, because it’s not unheard of for there to be QC issues with soldering out of phase (wires or drivers).


----------



## CoiL

1clearhead said:


> My latest top list of in-ear earphones are up at my profile page!
> Click link below to know more...
> Post #20974
> Enjoy!
> ...


Happy new to You too! Your impressions are always valuable (though we have tad different sound perception and preference). I also hope that You will jump soon to 100-200$ price category, as it can be "revealing" and re-think Your previous experience 


SybilLance said:


> Ha ha ha! *You're the one who brought up FR graphs in the first place,* and I was the one who kept repeating what I posted are subjective impressions.
> 
> It's just that I do love a healthy discussion every once in a while, and not one to shrink from a friendly challenge. As I've also repeated, I'm your average but curious lay person with no pretensions to knowing, much less understanding, all the things being talked about here. If I'm proven right, I'm glad. If I'm proven wrong, I'll accept it, although I'll be sad for some time. I'm mostly impersonal on things, as that's the nature of my profession. Well, unless provoked.
> 
> Anyway, where you truly err is thinking I don't like your opinion. I value your opinion and I respect it. In fact from this running discussion I have learned so many things heretofore unknown to me.* It was unfortunate that I misconstrued your earlier response and read too much from it.* For that I am genuinely sorry.


Good that You are back on track about my first posts of "our quarrel". Instead reacting and trying to prove opposite it is better to read things calm several times and in context of certain post. 
I provided You with 2 graphs from same person and measuring gear (which for example in my experience are more accurate than phonograph measurements which seem sometimes little off).
Those 2 graphs make Your post with several different graphs "irrevelant" as they compare IEMs I took for example head-to-head with eachother and show what I meant about ZSN sub-bass "roll-off".  
There was no need to prove something  
Maybe I was too "harsh" and subjective with my comment about ppl mixing up mid-bass & sub-bass areas (but imo, I`ve seen many "beginners" into head-fi describing things not quite right. Like I said before that was not pointed straight to Your impressions about ZSN.
Though, without different experience impressions can be misread/understood. 


SybilLance said:


> Meantime, I'm quite happy back to listening to music with the new green ZS6, although it also baffles me because of *its distinctly different character compared to the red one*. I'm trying to put my finger on where exactly does it differ. Well, at least until the AS06 arrives.


KZ is known to make changes without any notice. Best way to check - open both pair backplates and look for difference in resistors/capacitors. Also, take care look about glue/tape or whatever they are using for fixing internal components as it can block back of drivers airflow.

Anyway, happy new Year and joyful listening!


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> KZ is known to make changes without any notice. Best way to check - open both pair backplates and look for difference in resistors/capacitors. Also, take care look about glue/tape or whatever they are using for fixing internal components as it can block back of drivers airflow.



Ain’t that the truth. Sometimes the revisions are for the better (like ATE revisions, ATR, ED9, etc), and sometimes for the worse (ZS1 v2, ZS5 v2, etc).


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 31, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Happy new to You too! Your impressions are always valuable (though we have tad different sound perception and preference). I also hope that You will jump soon to 100-200$ price category, as it can be "revealing" and re-think Your previous experience
> 
> 
> 1clearhead
> ...


----------



## DocHoliday (Dec 31, 2018)

Just thought I'd give one more shout out to one of 2018's most controversial KZ's, the BA10.

It's clean, clear and laid back but it's a ton of fun!

The bass is articulate, the mids are rich and the treble is well-detailed.

Every year at least one KZ gets lost in the shuffle (multiple simultaneous releases) and looks like the BA10 will be one of the candidates for 2018, which is unfortunate. Few have heard KZ's new low frequency balanced armature (AS10, BA10 AS06) at its very best. I haven't picked up the AS10 or AS06 yet. I imagine the bass goes just as deep on either of those models but I'd be surprised if the bass is as clean and unobtrusive as it is on the BA10 (based on housing and feedback regarding the slightly elevated mid-bass punch on the AS10 & AS06).

I like the BA10.......a lot. 


Midrange (good density and rich timbre)



Soundstage, separation & imaging (warm and spacious).



That Bass (no mud despite the deep bass-laden onslaught)


Ergonomics, foam and occasional peakiness aside these are a notable achievement for KZ! 


Spoiler






 








2018 was a good year (AS10/BA10/ZSN/ZSR) but I'm looking forward to 2019.


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> My latest top list of in-ear earphones are up at my profile page!
> 
> Click link below to know more...
> Post #20974
> ...


I'm with you clearhead..
ZSN is fantastic.. 
Happy new year


----------



## CoiL (Dec 31, 2018)

1clearhead said:


> 1clearhead
> 
> Did it, and done it...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know You have those. I rather meant some more known brands like iBasso, Fiio, MeeAudio, Moondrop, Fidue, TFZ etc.
Magaosi, though, is very well known and respected brand by now.
Imho, You should try some highly respected single dynamics  For example, IT01S seems to "kill" everything atm in its price range.
Properly tuned and different combined newer tech (DLC; graphene, CNT etc.) single dynamics are eye(ear)-openers.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 31, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Yeah, I know You have those. I rather meant some more known brands like iBasso, Fiio, MeeAudio, Moondrop, Fidue, TFZ etc.
> Magaosi, though, is very well known and respected brand by now.
> Imho, You should try some highly respected single dynamics  For example, IT01S seems to "kill" everything atm in its price range.
> Properly tuned and different combined newer tech (DLC; graphene, CNT etc.) single dynamics are eye(ear)-openers.


I've auditioned Fiio, MeeAudio, Fidue, but I haven't tried TFZ, iBasso, IT01 or IT01S.

If I get a chance on my winter vacation, which is coming up soon!...I'll check them out.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 31, 2018)

CoiL said:


> Yeah, I know You have those. I rather meant some more known brands like iBasso, Fiio, MeeAudio, Moondrop, Fidue, TFZ etc.
> Magaosi, though, is very well known and respected brand by now.
> Imho, You should try some highly respected single dynamics  For example, IT01S seems to "kill" everything atm in its price range.
> Properly tuned and different combined newer tech (DLC; graphene, CNT etc.) single dynamics are eye(ear)-openers.



It is great that you like IT01 and enjoy your mode.
My limited experience with $100-$150 IEMs, e.g. Fiio, ended up with me not wanting to afford FH5, since there are always more.
I really happy that I found AS10 and just enjoying music.
I really got great respect for KZ with KZN, which I could be quite happy with.
It is great that there are a lot of choices, and everyone can find what makes them most happy!

Happy New Year!!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> AK Audio is A-OK.
> 
> No issues, *not* banned, good prices, good service, etc.


They do have the same warranty cards as the banned seller.


----------



## Slater (Dec 31, 2018)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> They do have the same warranty cards as the banned seller.



I have already discussed this with the Admins. AK is a different seller and is not banned.

They DO carry many of the same products as the banned seller, which they are allowed to do. It’s just those banned _products_ can’t be discussed, even though the _seller_ AK is not banned.

That warranty card comes from the manufacturer, so they include it in the box.

It’s like a Sony radio you buy at WalMart will have a Sony warranty card in it. So will the same Sony radio you bought at Best Buy. The warranty card is from Sony, not Walmart or Best Buy.

It’s been discussed at length before so no need to rehash it again.

Basically:

1. AK seller = not banned
2. Products (no matter who the seller) in my signature link = banned
3. Sellers in my signature link = banned


----------



## antdroid

I switched out the stock starline tips with spinfit CP155 tips (longer wide bore tips) and it really helps the AS06 sound better. The bass is no longer muddy and opens it up. I've noticed this with the stock KZ tips on pretty much all their IEMs. The stock tips really increase bass and (to me) muddiness to the point where I don't like it at all. Luckily, tip rolling is simple and easy. 

Still find this thing to be V-shaped and less detailed than the AS10, but it's probably appropriately priced in comparison. ZSN, as I'm listening to it more again, is very balanced, though a tad sharp sometimes. It's pretty close to what I like as far as a sound signature/FR but missing the dynamics and details I find in higher end earphones and over-ear headphones. There's definitely a drastic difference going back to listening to IEMs after spending the past 2 months or so primarily listening to the Focal Elex/Elegia.


----------



## eclein

Hey folks thanks for relighting my fire in this hobby again! Happy New Year! (BA10’s in ear now Doc!)
You guys and gals be safe tonite!
Ed from Pennsylvania 
⚽️


----------



## TechnoidFR

Have you any opinion on TFZ's comparing to KZ?


----------



## pbui44

TechnoidFR said:


> Have you any opinion on TFZ's comparing to KZ?



Generally speaking, TFZs have better bass than KZs, but you pay more for TFZs.  Also, make sure you really want the sound presentation for the TFZ you get.  For instance, the TFZ Secret Garden Dual-DD have a spacious and somewhat-v-shaped-sound presentation, making it wonderous for EDM, Pop, and almost all live/acoustical genres.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Thanks

When you say "better bass" can you explain ?
And for the rest?

Globally it's V signature ? What is the most interesting TFZ's for the monenm?


----------



## pbui44 (Dec 31, 2018)

TechnoidFR said:


> Thanks
> 
> When you say "better bass" can you explain ?
> And for the rest?
> ...



TFZs generally have better bass quantity and quality, but at a higher price.  Other sound comparisons are based on what you want in your music.  TFZs typically have a v-shaped signature and this is probably the most intriguing TFZ for many Chi-Fi fans:

https://penonaudio.com/tfz-king.html

TBH, the KZ AS10 and BA10 probably sound better overall than the TFZ Exclusive King, but it is up to you.


----------



## Zerohour88

pbui44 said:


> Generally speaking, TFZs have better bass than KZs, but you pay more for TFZs.  Also, make sure you really want the sound presentation for the TFZ you get.  For instance, the TFZ Secret Garden Dual-DD have a spacious and somewhat-v-shaped-sound presentation, making it wonderous for EDM, Pop, and almost all live/acoustical genres.





TechnoidFR said:


> Thanks
> 
> When you say "better bass" can you explain ?
> And for the rest?
> ...



Its basically the TFZ house sound, you'd have to like their tuning to appreciate their models. Tested a few models including the King Pro and the bass was the standout feature for me. Not that I like any of them. Yeah, sure, you can't go wrong with it, but you can probably find more technically proficient models for the same money.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 1, 2019)

My Cyan ZSN's just arrived... only about 10 minutes into listening and they seem to live up to the hype (especially for the price). I already like them more than my old SE215's at almost a tenth of the price.

Mids/vocal's are a bit further back than I prefer but still ok. Fortunately it's an easy EQ fix. We'll see what happens after burn in.


Edit: unfortunately looks like they will be relegated to occasional listening only. They press against my right antitragus and hotspot after 15-20 minutes.

Edit 2: With some tip rolling and reshaping of the ear hooks I think I've mostly solved most the fit issue.


----------



## NeonHD

Happy new year folks!


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 1, 2019)

Consecutive posts joined.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 1, 2019)

CoiL said:


> Good that You are back on track about my first posts of "our quarrel". Instead reacting and trying to prove opposite it is better to read things calm several times and in context of certain post.
> I provided You with 2 graphs from same person and measuring gear (which for example in my experience are more accurate than phonograph measurements which seem sometimes little off).
> Those 2 graphs make Your post with several different graphs "irrevelant" as they compare IEMs I took for example head-to-head with eachother and show what I meant about ZSN sub-bass "roll-off".
> There was no need to prove something
> ...


A Happy New Year to you too, @CoiL!

Uh-oh  ... antdroid's reddit post is categorical; read it and you'll understand he refers to one and only one IEM. The other curves are overlaid for purposes of comparison. His compensated graph btw is only of the subject IEM. Crabdog's graph is from his own review. One cannot in a sentence simply dismiss them and say their graphs are "irrelevant".

That is why care is needed in how our words are phrased, to avoid misunderstanding and misinterpretation. What is innocuous to one may be offensive to others. 

Perception of sound is of course personal and individual. Moreover, single-adjective descriptions of how headphones reproduce music are there by convention; they are figurative and can never be precise. For all we know, that "beginner" whose description of things may seem not quite right to us may be a very well-respected scientist with a PhD in psycho-acoustics or acoustics engineering or something.    

Anyway, we've each presented our sides, and proffered what we believe is sufficient supporting proof. Let's trust the other members and readers to have the discernment to arrive at their own conclusions. 

What matters is we all share an interest in, a love for, and an appreciation of, music as reproduced through headphones, and related gear.  I also wish there were someone in our area with your mad creative mod skills. I can't seem to part with the ED16 so I'd like to have it modified.

A comparative word to describe my new green ZS6 is brighter. It's brighter than the red one. And thanks for your suggestion! I've decided to look for a proper screwdriver and do as you said.  Curiously excited and very apprehensive at the same time. I hope nothing bad happens.  



1clearhead said:


> My latest top list of in-ear earphones are up at my profile page!
> 
> Click link below to know more...
> Post #20974
> ...


Thank you, Clear! Because of your highest approval and recommendation, it is also clear that my next in-ears would be a cyan pair of the CCA C10. 

Wait a moment... the coming AS06 is also cyan. Does CCA have black replacement cables? If so, I'll send vibes for the color black along my husband's way.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 1, 2019)

SybilLance

Thank you, Clear! Because of your highest approval and recommendation, it is also clear that my next in-ears would be a cyan pair of the CCA C10. 

Wait a moment... the coming AS06 is also cyan. Does CCA have black replacement cables? If so, I'll send vibes for the color black along my husband's way.
 [/QUOTE]

Clear

If you go to the "CCA Headphone Store" on Aliexpress you can buy a 0.75MM cable by KZ. Get the curved insert end.
Link...
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...o-Cord-for-Original/4409033_32899715999.html?

...I'll be purchasing the Purple/Silver C10, soon as a backup!

Cheers!


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> If you go to the "CCA Headphone Store" on Aliexpress you can buy a 0.75MM cable by KZ. Get the curved insert end.
> Link...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...o-Cord-for-Original/4409033_32899715999.html?
> 
> ...



Thanks again, Clear. Item added to cart. But if I can't decide I'll just flip a coin.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Zerohour88 said:


> Its basically the TFZ house sound, you'd have to like their tuning to appreciate their models. Tested a few models including the King Pro and the bass was the standout feature for me. Not that I like any of them. Yeah, sure, you can't go wrong with it, but you can probably find more technically proficient models for the same money.



Thanks

I'll see for review them.  But kz is better technical than tfz. Wow they are very good bang for buck ! I didn't think at this point !

King pro is very expensive in comparison to AS10. And the sound is similar ?


----------



## Zerohour88

TechnoidFR said:


> Thanks
> 
> I'll see for review them.  But kz is better technical than tfz. Wow they are very good bang for buck ! I didn't think at this point !
> 
> King pro is very expensive in comparison to AS10. And the sound is similar ?



you're probably replying to the wrong poster about the AS10/King Pro comparison. I hadn't AB any TFZ and KZ models yet (tested the old Series 4, King and King Pro, I think?), and wasn't wowed by them, at least.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Ok, thanks


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Happy New Year!


----------



## CoiL (Jan 1, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> It is great that you like IT01 and enjoy your mode.
> My limited experience with $100-$150 IEMs, e.g. Fiio, ended up with me not wanting to afford FH5, since there are always more.
> I really happy that I found AS10 and just enjoying music.
> I really got great respect for KZ with KZN, which I could be quite happy with.
> ...



My post was not meant to praise IT01, I was talking about many choices and new S-version is one of them (which I don`t have, yet).
Heck, sometimes I take out my precious ZS5v1 and are amazed how great it sounds with gigantic holographic soundstage (properly amped&sourced).
If KZ will do similar tuning IEM again, I will buy it for sure. I hope ZS7 will be it.
Just that I prefer coherence, dynamics, fast rumbling detailed bass, overall more micro-detailed and transparent sound of IT01(modded) over ZS5v1.



antdroid said:


> ZSN, as I'm listening to it more again, is very balanced,* though a tad sharp sometimes.* It's pretty close to what I like as far as a sound signature/FR *but missing the dynamics and details* I find in higher end earphones and over-ear headphones. There's definitely a drastic difference going back to listening to IEMs after spending the past 2 months or so primarily listening to the Focal Elex/Elegia.


While I don`t quite agree with "_very balanced_" point (I do think they are well balanced though), I do also think it is tad sharp/harsh (probably due to little spike around 4,5kHz) and lack little in "weight" with some instruments. Also dynamics, details (micro/transparency) & overall coherence could be better.
But hey, it is 14$ IEM - still insane value!


----------



## antdroid

CoiL said:


> My post was not meant to praise IT01, I was talking about many choices and new S-version is one of them (which I don`t have, yet).
> Heck, sometimes I take out my precious ZS5v1 and are amazed how great it sounds with gigantic holographic soundstage (properly amped&sourced).
> If KZ will do similar tuning IEM again, I will buy it for sure. I hope ZS7 will be it.
> Just that I prefer coherence, dynamics, fast rumbling detailed bass, overall more micro-detailed and transparent sound of IT01(modded) over ZS5v1.
> ...



Yea, I should have typed, relatively speaking. Its balanced for its price. There's very few IEMs that are as well balanced in this under $50 category


----------



## CoiL

SybilLance said:


> Uh-oh  ... antdroid's reddit post is categorical; read it and you'll understand he refers to one and only one IEM. The other curves are overlaid for purposes of comparison. His compensated graph btw is only of the subject IEM. Crabdog's graph is from his own review. One cannot in a sentence simply dismiss them and say their graphs are "irrelevant".


You still didn`t get my point with the example I brought. IT01 vs. ZSN - same graph and calibration/compensation settings, same measuring gear from same person - there is about 8dB difference @20Hz ! Though, when You do overlay graphs You`ll see that they also are different signature IEMs.
I personally definitely prefer overall "downsloping" FR without recessed mids or harshness/sibilance at highs (but not being clear L-shape signature). 
If ZSN suits perfect for Your sound perception, source gear, music, preferences, I`m totally good with that. We all do hear differently, have different gear etc.
I was just trying to make a point from my perspective about ZSN sub-bass "roll-off" compared to certain IEM (IT01 in this  case).
Once You hear enough of that fast detailed rumbly sub-bass of graphene driver backed with near 1 tesla magnetic field and properly implemented helmholz resonator - then You know what I`m speaking about  It is not about sub-bass quantity only but also quality of it. For me, ZSN lacks both latter in that area


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 1, 2019)

CoiL said:


> You still didn`t get my point with the example I brought. IT01 vs. ZSN - same graph and calibration/compensation settings, same measuring gear from same person - there is about 8dB difference @20Hz ! Though, when You do overlay graphs You`ll see that they also are different signature IEMs.
> I personally definitely prefer overall "downsloping" FR without recessed mids or harshness/sibilance at highs (but not being clear L-shape signature).
> If ZSN suits perfect for Your sound perception, source gear, music, preferences, I`m totally good with that. We all do hear differently, have different gear etc.
> I was just trying to make a point from my perspective about ZSN sub-bass "roll-off" compared to certain IEM (IT01 in this  case).
> Once You hear enough of that fast detailed rumbly sub-bass of graphene driver backed with near 1 tesla magnetic field and properly implemented helmholz resonator - then You know what I`m speaking about  It is not about sub-bass quantity only but also quality of it. For me, ZSN lacks both latter in that area


I get your point. Really, I do. The KZ ZSN does not have the elevated response of the iBasso IT01 in the 60Hz to 20Hz sub-bass range. I don't dispute you on this.

My point, on the other hand, stems from the very tone of your reply to my ZSN vs. ED16 impressions, and it touched a sensitive spot. That point is what I have been trying to say all along through these exchanges. The point is ... quite clear.

However, I leave it to you to discern and ascertain, as this year is new and there is always the promise of new and better and exciting head-fi stuff as well.  

Please, I hope we can let our discussion here stand on their own now, so we can then move on to whatever KZ has in store for us in 2019, like that 8-per-side all-BA flagship hinted at by DocHoliday (or Clear?) earlier. It's supposed to be in the $80 price category, right? Oh...shoot and fire! I'm going to be very wistful. 



Edit: Period. Forgot my punctuation.


----------



## antdroid (Jan 1, 2019)

I apologize to those who do not like graphs in advance.

*Knowledge Zenith AS06 Measurement Data*

To others, here's the latest measurements from the AS06 I took vs the rest of the KZ Lineup I have EARS data.
Data taken with MiniDSP EARS. Many disclaimers yada yada. This data is RAW data from the right side IEM only. Most of my measurements were checked 5-7 times or more for consistency. All measurements are using foam tips.
Measurements are normalized to 0dB at 300Hz.

AS06 is in *black*. FR chart basically shows it to be V-shaped and leaning a little dark, but with slightly elevated bass. I can tend to agree with this from my initial impressions. I found it to be bassy and recessed mids and missing a little upper end energy.







Here is the AS06 with compensation applied. The compensation is the Diffuse Field compensation which is normalized to the Etymotics ER4 series (from what MiniDSP supplied to customers).




Distortion data is average. KZ ZSN is low though.




AS06 driver matching is pretty good.



Waterfall CSD (Decay) data. Not sure how much I trust this data.


----------



## SybilLance

antdroid said:


> I apologize to those who do not like graphs in advance.
> 
> *Knowledge Zenith AS06 Measurement Data*
> 
> ...


A Big Thank You, antdroid for your time and effort in providing these graphs. I do love the raw curve overlays. For purposes of comparison, there's nothing like it; all it takes is a quick glance to confirm and affirm one's own thoughts and impressions.

Also, your initial take on the AS06's ability to resolve details, if any, please. Mine is scheduled for overseas transport.

Well done!


----------



## antdroid

SybilLance said:


> A Big Thank You, antdroid for your time and effort in providing these graphs. I do love the raw curve overlays. For purposes of comparison, there's nothing like it; all it takes is a quick glance to confirm and affirm one's own thoughts and impressions.
> 
> Also, your initial take on the AS06's ability to resolve details, if any, please. Mine is scheduled for overseas transport.
> 
> Well done!



Thank you. It has good detail and a medium soundstage for it's price. I think (off the top of my head) that the AS10 had more detail, and that could also be the fact that it has elevated treble vs actual detail retrieval. I'm liking the AS06 a bit more than I original had thought. Currently listening to Eric Clapton Unplugged album on CD through the Monolith THX-AAA amp. I'm not super used to a KZ IEM that doesn't blast me with piercing upper mids and highs.


----------



## SybilLance

antdroid said:


> Thank you. It has good detail and a medium soundstage for it's price. I think (off the top of my head) that the AS10 had more detail, and that could also be the fact that it has elevated treble vs actual detail retrieval. I'm liking the AS06 a bit more than I original had thought. Currently listening to Eric Clapton Unplugged album on CD through the Monolith THX-AAA amp. I'm not super used to a KZ IEM that doesn't blast me with piercing upper mids and highs.


Ahh...I see. Good for intimate, acoustic guitar solos and sets. I like!  

And your DAC/Amp...nice!


----------



## sino8r

So... Do we know anything about the ZS7 yet? I've read random mentions here and there and have seen the blue image of one but do we know anything at all yet?


----------



## TechnoidFR

antdroid said:


> I apologize to those who do not like graphs in advance.
> 
> *Knowledge Zenith AS06 Measurement Data*
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot.

My AS06 is very bassy comparing to as10 Wich is more beifht and more neutral.

Same sound quality  but more bass, simply. Are you agree?


----------



## TechnoidFR

sino8r said:


> So... Do we know anything about the ZS7 yet? I've read random mentions here and there and have seen the blue image of one but do we know anything at all yet?



Sended by an Amazon seller for. In 10 said it will be in my hands ! Zs6 comparison In waiting !


----------



## sino8r

TechnoidFR said:


> Sended by an Amazon seller for. In 10 said it will be in my hands ! Zs6 comparison In waiting !



Oh, thank you! I had no idea they were out lol! Ordered mine from Amazon just a minute ago as well. I got 1 day shipping so I should have them by Friday. I was looking at the setup of the dynamic drivers and all those balanced armatures. Looks like the mids will be replaced by a BA this time. I bet it will sound like the AS10/BS10 with better bass which would be perfect! This may make me regret getting the ibasso IT01s and the IMR R1 Zeniths. Either way, I'll be set for 2019 in the first month! What am I going to do the rest of the year lol?!


----------



## voicemaster

Is the ZS7 at amazon real?


----------



## purplesun

Thanks, Antdroid.
Are you using the factory copper cables with AS06? Any chance of doing another FR sweep of the AS06 with a silver-plated cable?
Thanks.


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> Is the ZS7 at amazon real?



Seems to be. It's being sold by the "he that shall not be named" brand but they are legitimate and we have all bought from them before. I'll do a disassembly with pics to show all the BAs and stuff Friday and load the images here.


----------



## voicemaster

Just ordered ZS7 thru amazon and it will come on Friday.


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> Just ordered ZS7 thru amazon and it will come on Friday.



Well, if it's like a combo of the AS10 and ZS6, I'm sure we'll be extremely happy! Imagine the soundstage and bass of the ZS6 with the mids and fine details of AS10! I might not be able to sleep well Thursday night lol!


----------



## voicemaster

I like ZS6 body the most from all KZ including ZSN. ZS6 feels secure (metal) and fit me just fine. ZSN fit me the best, but the two pin connection is not that secure especially if you were using bluetooth cable (Bt3, bt20, etc).


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> I like ZS6 body the most from all KZ including ZSN. ZS6 feels secure (metal) and fit me just fine. ZSN fit me the best, but the two pin connection is not that secure especially if you were using bluetooth cable (Bt3, bt20, etc).



Couldn't agree with you more. I love the fit of the ZSN. I haven't had a more comfortable fit since TFZ Queen. I can use any tip with those and not worry about sealing. They look good too but not as nice as the metal ZS6 or BA10. Neither of those two fit me well without triple flange tips. I also remove the foam from symbios tips and add them to the triple flanges. With that combo, the seal is perfect on every iem I own now. Makes for great isolation and superb bass as well. I know I'll have to use those with the ZS7 but you get used to flange tips after a week or so. Yeah, I have bend the pins on the ZSN for my TRNs. I prefer the TFZ bluetooth cable mostly for 2 pins. MMCX I use the Sony MUC-M2BT1. Nothing beats the LDAC ability on those. A bit pricey but worth every penny. Here's an image of the triple flange with symbios foam...


----------



## Nimweth

If you head over to the review section you can see my review of the ZS4.


----------



## Trebor1966

Review KZ ZS7:
http://www.awaqa.com/kz-zs7-review-hybrid-earphone-price-buy/


----------



## SybilLance

Trebor1966 said:


> Review KZ ZS7:
> http://www.awaqa.com/kz-zs7-review-hybrid-earphone-price-buy/



That reviewer refers to a second version of the KZ ZS6 that allegedly has a different sound signature.


> When the company began producing the KZ ZS7 headphones at a double price ($44), I thought the KZ was trying to sell the same two times, and twice as much – just replacing the plastic body with aluminum.
> 
> However, the reality is far removed from the first impression. Although it is visually very similar to the headphones, the sound is different. Better (*I emphasize here that I compare to the second generation KZ ZS6, ie, which were made at the beginning, the current ones have a slightly different sound*).



Could there be really 2 versions of the ZS6? Curious because my new green ZS6 sounds different than my red one.


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jan 2, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> That reviewer refers to a second version of the KZ ZS6 that allegedly has a different sound signature.
> 
> 
> Could there be really 2 versions of the ZS6? Curious because my new green ZS6 sounds different than my red one.




Replacing plastic body with aluminium? Double the price? I think this guy is confusing the ZS6 with ZS5.

EDIT: Look at that picture where he shows the "ZS6" in his ear, that's a ZS5


----------



## CoiL

antdroid said:


>


Thanks for graphs! 
Would like to have AS06 bass (black line) up to 300Hz, from there to 2.2kHz blue ZSN line and from there to end ZSA green line. It would be good IEM imo.
1 quations though... why do You use foam tips when measuring? 


Trebor1966 said:


> Review KZ ZS7:
> http://www.awaqa.com/kz-zs7-review-hybrid-earphone-price-buy/


More mids? Thank You please. Not harsh/sibilant highs? Thanks You please. More balanced signature? Thanks You please.
I hope it will be great and resemble similarities with ZS5v1.
Waiting for more impressions.


----------



## antdroid

CoiL said:


> Thanks for graphs!
> Would like to have AS06 bass (black line) up to 300Hz, from there to 2.2kHz blue ZSN line and from there to end ZSA green line. It would be good IEM imo.
> 1 quations though... why do You use foam tips when measuring?



I used foams for this measurements for best fit and seal across all the iems I used. In some cases I do use silicone tips for measurements and in general use but I try to keep my measurements as controlled as possible


----------



## SybilLance

HerrXRDS said:


> Replacing plastic body with aluminium? Double the price? I think this guy is confusing the ZS6 with ZS5.
> 
> EDIT: Look at that picture where he shows the "ZS6" in his ear, that's a ZS5


Yes, you're right! He _is_ referring to the ZS5. Now that the guy's also confusing syntax is making sense, I'm still confused with my green ZS6.

There are too many instances of the verb confuse here.

Thanks, HerrXRDS. You've got Eagle eyes.


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> Replacing plastic body with aluminium? Double the price? I think this guy is confusing the ZS6 with ZS5.
> 
> EDIT: Look at that picture where he shows the "ZS6" in his ear, that's a ZS5



Good catch.

This is why reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.

Lord only knows what the guy is even comparing the ZS7 to. The ZS5 v1? The ZS5 v2? An actual ZS6?

And if he is comparing it to the ZS5 v1, the cable an source used will have a dramatic impact on its sound and overall performance because it is so sensitive to impedance. But he doesn’t even mention that.

I’m sure he has good intentions, but unfortunately the review has the potential to cause more confusion than anything.


----------



## Slater (Jan 2, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Could there be really 2 versions of the ZS6? Curious because my new green ZS6 sounds different than my red one.



If I had to guess, the sound difference you’re hearing is because 1 (or more) drivers are either defective or internally miswired.

Or it could be the cable you’re using is the cause for the difference. Such as a mic vs non-mic cable, miswired cable, or a variation in impedance between the 2 cables.

I have disassembled and carefully examined 6 different ZS6, of every color available, bought at different times, and from different sellers.

I took FR measurements, and the graphs are all 100% identical (other than minor channel imbalance variations).

I have been unable to find any concrete proof that a 2nd revision of the ZS6 actually exists.

It’s been a while now, but I almost positive someone even asked KZ (or maybe Hill Audio) at the time these rumors were swirling, and they flat out denied any 2nd revision.

Update: Of course, this was a while ago (a few months after the grey “extra bass” color was released). It’s theoretically possible that in the last 6 months KZ HAS made an actual ZS6 v2).


----------



## antdroid

CoiL said:


> Thanks for graphs!
> Would like to have AS06 bass (black line) up to 300Hz, from there to 2.2kHz blue ZSN line and from there to end ZSA green line. It would be good IEM imo.



That would definitely be an ideal IEM. You should check out these IEMs if that's what you like:

Tenhz P4 Pro
BGVP DMG/DM6
Audio-Technica LS200iS
Campfire Orion/Andromeda


----------



## CoiL

antdroid said:


> That would definitely be an ideal IEM. You should check out these IEMs if that's what you like:
> 
> Tenhz P4 Pro
> BGVP DMG/DM6
> ...



Thanks for recommending but I have already done lot of reading and graphs comparison about DMG & DM6 (they are no-go for my gear, hearing and preferences), Tenhz P4 Pro is out too but I don`t remember atm what it was for me as turn-off. 
AT LS200iS and CA Orion/Andromeda I haven`t checked but they are probably over my price limit.
Currently I`m between Moondrop Kanas Pro and iBasso IT01S. Probably I`m going for KP as I already have modified IT01, which should sound somewhat similar to S version by looking at graphs (comparison by hearing atm but will let my modded IT01 to be measured sometime soon).


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone mind taking a top down pic of the as06/as10 housing next to the zsn? And maybe a bottom pic too, to see the nozzle differences. Like this:

 

 

Trying to decide if cca c10 or as06 will be my next purchase. This may sway my decision one way or another, depending on how different to the zsn/c10 housing the as06 is.


Also, quick tip. If you have some small o-rings laying around you can use one or two to make a chin slider. Just takes some patience to get them over the connectors.


----------



## Slater (Jan 2, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone mind taking a top down pic of the as06/as10 housing next to the zsn? And maybe a bottom pic too, to see the nozzle differences. Like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rubber bands for orthodontic braces work great too. I used to use keyboard o rings, now since I started using the braces rubber bands it’s all I use. You just have to get the correct size and thickness to get the proper fit, as there are many sizes available.

Update: The correct size is 1/8" diameter, and the thickness is referred to as "X-HEAVY" (preferable) or "HEAVY" (if X-HEAVY isn't available).


----------



## antdroid (Jan 2, 2019)

@assassin10000 
  This help?

 
 

Note: The ZSN is 5.4mm except at the very tip where its 5.6mm


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 2, 2019)

antdroid said:


> @assassin10000
> This help?



It does, thanks.

The pros/cons for me:
Longer nozzle, which may make it fit better.
Less angle on the nozzle, worse fit for me.
Taller body, that will not fit my ears.


The downside of having small ears. ZSN barely fits, took some doing to get the ear hooks shaped to hold them where they sit comfortably.



Also, thanks for those graphs.


----------



## antdroid

assassin10000 said:


> It does, thanks.
> 
> The pros/cons for me:
> Longer nozzle, which may make it fit better.
> ...



ZSN fits me A LOT better.


----------



## assassin10000

antdroid said:


> ZSN fits me A LOT better.



I believe it. It lends itself pretty well to the shape of the ear.

If you're still near your collection, how does the ZSA compare size wise to the ZSN?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 2, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> I believe it. It lends itself pretty well to the shape of the ear.
> 
> If you're still near your collection, how does the ZSA compare size wise to the ZSN?


ZSA (grey, top) is the smallest, almost straight nozzles.
ZSN (middle) is the best fit for me.
AS10 (bottom) is the best sound for me


----------



## SybilLance

Slater said:


> If I had to guess, the sound difference you’re hearing is because 1 (or more) drivers are either defective or internally miswired.
> 
> Or it could be the cable you’re using is the cause for the difference. Such as a mic vs non-mic cable, miswired cable, or a variation in impedance between the 2 cables.
> 
> ...


Thanks. The cable's fine. Am curious, so will try to open the green and see for myself. Placed an order for a Torx security set for that 6-sided star head as the ones we have here are all bigger. Am approaching this with trepidation.


----------



## wilsonism17

same thoughts here @assassin10000. can't decide what to get between the cca c10 and kz as06. but then I saw a kinera seed at a discounted price at lazada.ph(1st version I guess the one with a little discoloration on cable) and I'm weighing in this one also. haha.


----------



## alex5908

Hello everybody,

Does anybody know the discount codes for KZ AS10?
Could you share them?


----------



## Miki811

Hey guys, I just received my ZS10 and contrary to the mixed reviews, I definitely love the sound better compared to my ES4s. Going back to ES4s after a day of using a fresh ZS10, I now feel that the bass gets muddy and a little to boomy for me.

Silver/copper cables are on the way along with generic silicone eartips and a couple of whirlwinds. Foams seem to dampen the details when I tried it on the ZS10s, so that's a no go.

I'm still experimenting on how to get the best sound possible for cheap from the ZS10. It's currently paired with an iPod touch 5th gen. Some research suggest that it's already good enough for 32 ohm cans (kenrockwell site). But there's this little man on my shoulder pushing me to buy at least an amp, or an amp/dac for "better" sound. Question is, do I really need it?

Current music source is just spotify (highest quality). Don't want to dwell to lossless music. I might go crazy if I did!


----------



## SybilLance

Was having lunch with the kids when a text message said a COD delivery was going to be made. Right on cue seconds later the doorbell rang and...the KZ AS06 is here!



 

In my eagerness getting to the goodies I forgot to take the usual photos of the package opening for the seller rating and for just in case there's damage during transit.





My first thought when the AS06 popped out of their foam cushion was, "Dear me! They're huge!"



 

The second was, "Will they fit?"

Well...what'd ya know, they do! Their shape conforms to my conchae and they're actually comfortable. The included medium Starlines however felt like swim ear plugs so I replaced them with the wide-bore green-cored soft silicone tips that came extra with the ZSN and they're just perfect.



 

Next thought, "Wow! Isolation! I can barely hear my fingers snapping."

Plugged them into the iPhone 6+ that coincidentally was open to the portion of the page where amirm of audiosciencereview was describing his listening tests of the CEntrance DACPort HD vs. Audioquest Dragonfly Red. There's this embedded YouTube track of avant-garde musician Laurie Anderson's _My Compensation_, a mix of vocals and deep bass.



Tapping on the link brought bass. Oodles of bass. Deep bass.

Last thoughts as I unplugged and took off the AS06 to take photos, "This track is a good test for bass...and the AS06 sure handled it well—with aplomb, as what those WhatHiFi reviewers would say."

Indeed, the textures of voices and other details still all seem to be there despite the subwoofer-like tactile presence in my ears.

All things green ZS6-related will be put on indefinite suspension now. For the next few weeks I'll be listening to the AS06.


----------



## HAMS

Just received my Zsn. Pretty neutral. V-shaped? Are you sure? I already sold my tin audio T2, can't be sure but T2 seems to have more bass. Sufficient treble just the right amount for me, little bit peaky there and there. Overall sound pretty good.


----------



## xinn47

SybilLance said:


> Was having lunch with the kids when a text message said a COD delivery was going to be made. Right on cue seconds later the doorbell rang and...the KZ AS06 is here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Looks good so far! Can't wait to hear more impressions! 
If you don't mind, can you tell me how AS06s sounds like with this album?


----------



## assassin10000

SybilLance said:


> My first thought when the AS06 popped out of their foam cushion was, "Dear me! They're huge!"
> 
> The second was, "Will they fit?"
> 
> ...



They look so good.

If I thought the AS06 would fit, I'd definitely order it. Sounds like an interesting bass BA. I was originally hoping for it to be my entry into an all/multi BA IEM.


Unfortunately even the much smaller ZSN barely clears my Concha.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 3, 2019)

xinn47 said:


> Looks good so far! Can't wait to hear more impressions!
> If you don't mind, can you tell me how AS06s sounds like with this album?



Listening to it now with the AS06...

Not familiar with the band but this jazz-fusion track is reminiscent of the 80s band Shakatak in a more fanciful mood. Well, I can clearly hear the electric guitar very slightly off to the left from center with the bass beside it, the keyboards/synths a bit farther back and slightly off to the right, the drums/percussion a bit farther back and to the keyboard's right (natural cymbal strikes are in the right ear). This seems to be a somewhat bright track...recording? Middle volume setting in iPhone 6+ is already loud, so had to slide it further down. No harshness, though. The instrument details seem to be all there.

Very favorable first listening impressions.


----------



## ivannnn

I just received my kz zsn a few days ago. Damn it sounds really good for its price


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 3, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> They look so good.
> 
> If I thought the AS06 would fit, I'd definitely order it. Sounds like an interesting bass BA. I was originally hoping for it to be my entry into an all/multi BA IEM.
> 
> ...


That's how the ZSN looks in my ear! Very comfy. Disappears after sometime. Quite surprisingly the AS06's shape is a natural fit for the contours of my concha. No portion of the housing presses into it. They don't disappear from cognition like the ZSN does—they seem to be comparatively heavier. The projection angle of the nozzle seems to be not a problem either. Fortunately I quickly found the right tip. The Starlines create an unpleasant suction effect.

Perhaps it could be the same for you as well..? 

An alternative would be the CCA C10. The Mate of the ZSN according to Clear and highly recommended by him. To paraphrase him, exact same housing, similar base sound, but better, more mature, more refined.



wilsonism17 said:


> same thoughts here @assassin10000. can't decide what to get between the cca c10 and kz as06.


Those were my very thoughts too, last December. My husband decided for me. 

Would you mind entertaining thoughts about getting both?


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 3, 2019)

...


----------



## Slater

SybilLance said:


> Thanks. The cable's fine. Am curious, so will try to open the green and see for myself. Placed an order for a Torx security set for that 6-sided star head as the ones we have here are all bigger. Am approaching this with trepidation.



With the back cover removed, you’ll be able to see the dynamic wiring, but not the BA wiring.

By that I mean you can see where the BA wiring ends and is soldered to the pads, but not where they attach to the back of the BA drivers themselves. If they are wired out of phase, that is the most likely location because it’s so easy to screw up if the assembly worker was not paying careful attention.


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> Just received my Zsn. Pretty neutral. V-shaped? Are you sure? I already sold my tin audio T2, can't be sure but T2 seems to have more bass. Sufficient treble just the right amount for me, little bit peaky there and there. Overall sound pretty good.



Check the phase to be sure. When they’re out of phase they will have a bit less low end.


----------



## wilsonism17

@SybilLance haha I wish I can afford them both this month. just recently ordered a new TRN earphones called TRN H1. according to sir Kopi, "It is what we called "Project X". This is a basshead IEM. The highs sound OK but not extended like V80. TRN H1 is actually not bad. Bass is extended because of graphene dynamic driver. I kind of like the sound for general listening." (sorry in advance moderstors this iem should be in other thread right?). ordered 2 of these coz I'm gonna gift the other one for my mother who videocalls a lot and hates using my iems. haha


----------



## BadReligionPunk

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone mind taking a top down pic of the as06/as10 housing next to the zsn? And maybe a bottom pic too, to see the nozzle differences. Like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just an FYI. The CCA C10 has a different nozzle then ZSN. It looks wider and shorter to me, but could be just the way the picture was taken. I will definitively know for sure in a few days when I get my C10. Maybe clear can chime in. That's his picture(I think).


----------



## HungryPanda

Just received the CCA-C10 today, had a quick sort out which tips to use (ended up with large starlines) Then on a quick listen, very nice, comfortable. Lively, bright, clear with good bass. Will burn in and give my conclusion later.


----------



## Francisk (Jan 3, 2019)

xinn47 said:


> Looks good so far! Can't wait to hear more impressions!
> If you don't mind, can you tell me how AS06s sounds like with this album?




Casiopea...one of my favourite fusion band back in the days. My favourite IEM for this album is the Dynamic Motion DM200H


----------



## xinn47

Francisk said:


> Casiopea...one of my favourite fusion band back in the days. My favourite IEM for this album is the Dynamic Motion DM200H



Mint Jams became one of my favourite albums recently!  It's almost my ritual to listen to them everytime since I first ever heard of them, because they're just so damn addicting and smooth! Currently on a roll with City-Pop/Japanese 80s in General too


----------



## SybilLance

Slater said:


> With the back cover removed, you’ll be able to see the dynamic wiring, but not the BA wiring.
> 
> By that I mean you can see where the BA wiring ends and is soldered to the pads, but not where they attach to the back of the BA drivers themselves. If they are wired out of phase, that is the most likely location because it’s so easy to screw up if the assembly worker was not paying careful attention.


Thanks again. Would the correct or wrong wiring be evident? If there's going to be soldering...I'd rather not touch anything.  



wilsonism17 said:


> @SybilLance haha I wish I can afford them both this month. just recently ordered a new TRN earphones called TRN H1. according to sir Kopi, "It is what we called "Project X". This is a basshead IEM. The highs sound OK but not extended like V80. TRN H1 is actually not bad. Bass is extended because of graphene dynamic driver. I kind of like the sound for general listening." (sorry in advance moderstors this iem should be in other thread right?). ordered 2 of these coz I'm gonna gift the other one for my mother who videocalls a lot and hates using my iems. haha


 That's nice, though.


----------



## 1clearhead

BadReligionPunk said:


> Just an FYI. The CCA C10 has a different nozzle then ZSN. It looks wider and shorter to me, but could be just the way the picture was taken. I will definitively know for sure in a few days when I get my C10. Maybe clear can chime in. That's his picture(I think).


The C10's nozzle is just slightly shorter, while the ZSN's nozzle is slightly longer and wider on the very tip where you would insert the ear tips.


----------



## wilsonism17

hmm so the C10 doesn't have a protruding 2 pin port like the ZSN sir @1clearhead? very nice!


----------



## DocHoliday

FYI:

Another ZS7 review has been posted.

If you're debating whether or not to pick up a ZS7 then subscribe to the ZS7 review thread for the next several weeks to be notified every time a new review is posted. We should be seeing more in the coming days and weeks.


----------



## Slater

SybilLance said:


> Thanks again. Would the correct or wrong wiring be evident? If there's going to be soldering...I'd rather not touch anything.



The BAs are located in front of the DD bass driver. Since it's glued into place, you'd have to try and cut out the large DD driver without damaging it. Personally, I wouldn't risk it.


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jan 3, 2019)

Received the KZ ZS3E today.
The cable is actually a slightly modified "classic" KZ silver upgrade cable (like this one here https://bit.ly/2LQm79R), the only differences being translucent pin sockets (as opposed to more opaque white ones), slightly different (more loose?) weave, and the splitter, which is located a little higher than in the "classic" cable. Unlike the ZSN cable, this one has the wired earhooks, which is a bummer.
The tips are your typical Starlines.
Fit and comfort are excellent, at least for the few minutes I had the ZS3E in my ears. Been using them with large stock tips.
When it comes to sound, I don't feel qualified enough to comment, but if I were to escribe them with one word, it would be "bassy".
I like the red colour a lot. That's actually the reason I got these. This and the price (USD 9,30).

Edit 1: "Psychotropia" by Vektor (technical thrash metal) sounds surprisingly good and uncongested


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> Received the KZ ZS3E today.
> The cable is actually a slightly modified "classic" KZ silver upgrade cable (like this one here https://bit.ly/2LQm79R), the only differences being translucent pin sockets (as opposed to more opaque white ones), slightly different (more loose?) weave, and the splitter, which is located a little higher than in the "classic" cable. Unlike the ZSN cable, this one has the wired earhooks, which is a bummer.
> The tips are your typical Starlines.
> Fit and comfort are excellent, at least for the few minutes I had the ZS3E in my ears. Been using them with large stock tips.
> ...



Thanks for letting us know. I know a few of us have been wondering about these.


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jan 3, 2019)

Slater said:


> Thanks for letting us know. I know a few of us have been wondering about these.


I never tried the ZS3, or ZS4, so can't compare these models.
Also, I realized that I might've been a little inaccurate when I described the ZS3E as bassy. It's not that the bass is overpowering or anything - it actually sounds nice and punchy.
There's no trace of sibilance, which is always good news with KZ IEMs.
Sorry, I'm really bad at describing sound. But from what I can hear, I think these might be quite good for metal and it's quicker subgenres.


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> I never tried the ZS3, or ZS4, so can't compare these models.
> Also, I realized that I might've been a little inaccurate when I described the ZS3E as bassy. It's not that the bass is overpowering or anything - it actually sounds nice and punchy.
> There's no trace of sibilance, which is always good news with KZ IEMs.
> Sorry, I'm really bad at describing sound. But from what I can hear, I think these might be quite good for metal and it's quicker subgenres.




The ZS3e uses the same 8mm liquid crystal diaphragm as the ZS4. I really like the bass of the ZS4. It’s clean and punchy. I think I’ll give the ZS3e a try next time I see it on sale cheap.

How would you describe the treble? Just do the best you can to describe it in plain English terms if at all possible.

Is it hard to hear the treble, like it’s far away? It is really powerful and shrill, like how it kind of hurts your eyes when looking directly into the sun? Does it sound muffled, like there is a blanket over the speaker?


----------



## Miki811

Sorry for spamming, my previous post got burried real quick! Just wanna know, do ZS10s hooked up to an iPod touch 5th gen need an amp? If so, what would you recommend between zishan z1 and walnut v2s?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 3, 2019)

Miki811 said:


> Sorry for spamming, my previous post got burried real quick! Just wanna know, do ZS10s hooked up to an iPod touch 5th gen need an amp? If so, what would you recommend between zishan z1 and walnut v2s?


My limited answer won't be simple.
On one hand, ZS10 sounds OK with simple sources, such as smartphones (Samsung S9 in my case), and does not have background hiss, like AS10.
On the other hand, with my limited sources, ZS10 sounded  bass heavy and with  rolled-off highs. Those, who enjoyed ZS10, mentioned that it benefits from amping.


----------



## Slater (Jan 3, 2019)

Miki811 said:


> Sorry for spamming, my previous post got burried real quick! Just wanna know, do ZS10s hooked up to an iPod touch 5th gen need an amp? If so, what would you recommend between zishan z1 and walnut v2s?



I don't have an ZS10, but I do have an iPod Touch 5G that I use from time to time. Believe it or not, the iPod Touch 5G is very respectable (spec wise). And that's from the headphone jack, not using a lightning adapter.

You can check out the in depth analysis: https://kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-5g/audio-quality.htm

With that said, some gear does improve even more with amplification. It doesn't mean it wouldn't sound good with just the iPod Touch 5G though.

@B9Scrambler did mention the low end of the ZS10 tightens up with amplification: https://thecontraptionist.blog/2018/05/08/kz-zs10-chaos/


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 3, 2019)

Slater said:


> The BAs are located in front of the DD bass driver. Since it's glued into place, you'd have to try and cut out the large DD driver without damaging it. Personally, I wouldn't risk it.


At first I thought it would be quite a thrill and a breeze opening up the ZS6. I imagined using tweezers to remove excess glue or gunk or whatever and that's it. But then the thought of wielding a Torx screwdriver and successfully lifting the plate off without the tip skiddding and not scratching anything, quite daunting in itself, made me pause and think. What more if re-wiring or soldering is needed?

Further reflection also points to the possibility, however remote, that indeed the green one may have a different tuning. Or that if there's some sort of electrical screw-up there could be no better people to make it right than my husband or even better yet his friends.

I'll leave the ZS6 be in the meantime as I focus on the AS06. It seems to be growing on me.

Thanks for the help and walkthrough advice, @Slater. You're tops.


----------



## paulindss

Nice to see some people loving ZSN.

Fun fact is, zst reveived some hate back in the days. And after ABing. Zsn has more mid treble, and treble extension than zst. It gets faster in the upper registers as a consequence. The bass, i am not sure. But zdn seems to get little more impact. Overall the Zsn is a more agressive and resolving zst.

This earpgoeas is one of my top recommendation for those who doesn't have problems with treble


----------



## drey101 (Jan 12, 2019)

Hi, I've been lurking for the pass few weeks/months and I'd like to post my impressions for the CCA C10 which I've just received. I'll be comparing them to my BGVP DMG (default filters), which I've been using for the past month or so. All comparisons will be made using only the default filters of the DMG. Please pardon me if my impressions seem lacking or off, as I'm still just starting out in the hobby. I'll just be trying to describe my own personal impressions based on my limited knowledge and experience.

Source:
Huawei Mate 20 Pro - Tempotec Sonata HD

Music Source:
Spotify Premium (I'm finding it difficult to find free FLAC)

Songs:
Swing Swing - Move Along - All American Rejects (I've found that these two All American Rejects songs are great for V shaped iems, but perform badly when it's more neutral)
Dirty Little Secret - Move Along - All American Rejects
Sk8r Boi - Let Go - Avril Lavigne (I usually use it for checking out sibilance)
Dreams (Remastered) - 50 Years - Don't Stop Album - Fleetwood Mac
Stars - 10th Anniversary Les Miserables - Philip Quast
Misery Business - RIOT! - Paramore
Ocean Avenue - YELLOWCARD - Yellowcard
Breathe (2 AM) - Wreck of the Day - Anna Nalick

OOTB here are my impressions:
Lows:
C10 is definitely more boomy than the DMG. DMG wins in details and instrument separation. Kick Drum is more defined in the DMG, but still noticeable for the C10.  I think bass is more drawn out in the C10 compared to the DMG, that's  why it feels boomier.
Mids:
Vocals feel more forward in the C10. DMG still feels more detailed than the C10, like I can hear more instruments more clearly. The opening portion in Misery Business, where Hayley says something about the snare is quite clearer in the DMG, where I actually got surprised and looked around the room as it felt like someone was talking to me.
Highs:
C10 is more elevated here, not sure if muddy is still the correct term, but sometimes the instruments feel very crowded. Since the C10 is more elevated, it makes some songs sound much more fun and livelier, although it's more prone to treble peaks. Sibilance is actually better controlled compared to the DMG, although I never encountered any treble peak issues with the DMG.

Conclusion:
On some songs, the C10 is way more fun to listen to over the DMG. I dunno, but it seems more of a W rather than a simple V, as the vocals sound much more forward compared to the DMG. The DMG is closer to being neutral, has more detail across the spectrum, has better instrument separation, and is also 3 times more expensive. As they're both hybrids, I think the DD in the DMG has more detail, but tends to be punchier, which quicker delay compared to the C10. When it comes to mids and highs, the notes feel a bit... clipped(?) in the C10. The notes feel slightly more drawn out in the DMG, which just sounds smoother and more natural, but this also tends to making it sound more sibilant as it makes the 'sss' sound feel slightly too long.

I would recommend the C10 to those who are just starting their audiophile journey, and feel that 100 USD is still too expensive.

For non-audiophiles, I think the ZSN (which I also had for a few weeks, but long since sold to an officemate) is a better recommendation, as it's cheaper than the C10, has a similar signature (with a more recessed mid, more elevated treble), similar shape and comfort.

Some updated notes: Post #40436


----------



## Miki811

PhonoPhi said:


> My limited answer won't be simple.
> On one hand, ZS10 sounds OK with simple sources, such as smartphones (Samsung S9 in my case), and does not have background hiss, like AS10.
> On the other hand, with my limited sources, ZS10 sounded  bass heavy and with  rolled-off highs. Those, who enjoyed ZS10, mentioned that it benefits from amping.



Yeah, it's kinda thin on my phone that's why I'm mostly using my iPod touch for music playback. On Kenrockwell's website, it was seen that the iPod touch is able to drive 32 ohm headphones easily, which has the same impedance as the ZS10 which makes me think twice about buying an amp. But reviews mostly say that it definitely benefits from amping, which makes me wanna buy lol




Slater said:


> I don't have an ZS10, but I do have an iPod Touch 5G that I use from time to time. Believe it or not, the iPod Touch 5G is very respectable (spec wise). And that's from the headphone jack, not using a lightning adapter.
> 
> You can check out the in depth analysis: https://kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-5g/audio-quality.htm
> 
> ...



I was able to check both sites which further tortures me! Kenrockwell says that the iPod is capable enough of driving 32ohm headphones, but the reviews say that it benefits amps. I'm really on the point of just getting the Walnut V2S and get over it (already in the "place order" segment of the checkout lol). I'm just not sure if it really needs it. I could be dishing out ~$20 for nothing lol!

Do you have similar impedance/spec'ed cans you could try to see if amping it with the iPod does anything?


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 4, 2019)

drey101 said:


> Hi, I've been lurking for the pass few weeks/months and *I'd like to post my impressions for the CCA C10 which I've just received*. I'll be comparing them to my BGVP DMG (default filters), which I've been using for the past month or so. All comparisons will be made using only the default filters of the DMG. Please pardon me if my impressions seem lacking or off, as I'm still just starting out in the hobby. I'll just be trying to describe my own personal impressions based on my limited knowledge and experience.
> 
> Source:
> Huawei Mate 20 Pro - Tempotec Sonata HD
> ...


You mentioned "*I'd like to post my impressions for the CCA C10 which I've just received"* on your very first sentence.

Some advice:
You should try burning them in (or consistantly play in a loop/or white noise) the C10 for at least 100 hours before giving a full review like the one above. They do start to change and actually tend to sound better after past 20 hours for a short given impression. Thereafter, a full review would be more consistant and accurate as the one above.

For example, the bass starts to get tighter and stage presence starts to get wider after 20 hours. By the time it reaches 100 hours bass is really tight and accurate, vocals are incredibly realististic, and details are pristine and clear with no harshness or sibilance, whatsoever!


Hope this gives you some idea on your next review(s) since you mentioned that you are a new head-fier. 


-Clear


----------



## drey101

1clearhead said:


> You mentioned "*I'd like to post my impressions for the CCA C10 which I've just received"* on your very first sentence.
> 
> Some advice:
> You should try burning them in (or consistantly play in a loop/or white noise) the C10 for at least 100 hours before giving a full review like the one above. They do start to change and actually tend to sound better after past 20 hours for a short given impression. Thereafter, a full review would be more consistant and accurate as the one above.
> ...



Thanks for replying Clear, I actually bought the C10 coz of your initial impressions.

Yupz, I'm actually letting it run the cascade burn-in for now and I'll be checking it out a few days from now to try and compare it with the DMG's again. I'm not sure about the existence of burn in, but I'm of the opinion it doesn't hurt to add my initial impressions of it first before burn in so that people who listen only from OOTB and don't believe in burn in will have an idea as to what to expect. I guess I wasn't too clear with regards to sibilance, but to make things less ambiguous, I meant to say that so far, I haven't encountered any sibilance with the C10s (better controlled than DMG, where I it does happen), but I did encounter some instances wherein the treble peaked a bit too high while listening randomly in Spotify.

After a few days, I'll update my initial review to post any changes I may or may not notice with regards to the SQ of the C10.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Slater said:


> The ZS3e uses the same 8mm liquid crystal diaphragm as the ZS4. I really like the bass of the ZS4. It’s clean and punchy. I think I’ll give the ZS3e a try next time I see it on sale cheap.
> 
> How would you describe the treble? Just do the best you can to describe it in plain English terms if at all possible.
> 
> Is it hard to hear the treble, like it’s far away? It is really powerful and shrill, like how it kind of hurts your eyes when looking directly into the sun? Does it sound muffled, like there is a blanket over the speaker?



I'd say the treble is quite vivid, but without being too shrill. No trace of sibilance. It also seems to be fairly well extended. Saxophone and cymbals sound really nice and clear in some of the jazz songs I tried.
The AliExpress shop I bought my pair has the ZS3E on sale for USD 8,85.
Link: https://bit.ly/2Rucv9N


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 4, 2019)

drey101 said:


> Thanks for replying Clear, I actually bought the C10 coz of your initial impressions.
> 
> Yupz, I'm actually letting it run the cascade burn-in for now and I'll be checking it out a few days from now to try and compare it with the DMG's again. I'm not sure about the existence of burn in, but I'm of the opinion it doesn't hurt to add my initial impressions of it first before burn in so that people who listen only from OOTB and don't believe in burn in will have an idea as to what to expect. I guess I wasn't too clear with regards to sibilance, but to make things less ambiguous, I meant to say that so far, I haven't encountered any sibilance with the C10s (better controlled than DMG, where I it does happen), but I did encounter some instances wherein the treble peaked a bit too high while listening randomly in Spotify.
> 
> After a few days, I'll update my initial review to post any changes I may or may not notice with regards to the SQ of the C10.


One thing I noticed besides a wider soundstage is that after 20 plus hours was where it started surrounding me with better frontal stage and depth and by 100 hours the higher details are so pristine and clean and I could not hardly understand why I haven't dealt with any harshness or sibilance. I have a hunch that it could be the placement of the BA's and dynamic drivers, plus the crossover board somewhat different from the KZ's ZS10. It's true! At first it starts off sounding like a ZSN prototype, but then it blossoms to a premium IEM.

I'm looking forward to your second review on the DMG. Sounds also like a keeper!


----------



## drey101

1clearhead said:


> One thing I noticed besides a wider soundstage is that after 20 plus hours was where it started surrounding me with better frontal stage and depth and by 100 hours the higher details are so pristine and clean and I could not hardly understand why I haven't dealt with any harshness or sibilance. I have a hunch that it could be the placement of the BA's and dynamic drivers, plus the crossover board somewhat different from the KZ's ZS10. It's true! At first it starts off sounding like a ZSN prototype, but then it blossoms to a premium IEM.
> 
> I'm looking forward to your second review on the DMG. Sounds also like a keeper!



That'll be something I'll be trying to pay more attention after 100 hours, and I'm excited for it to become even better, as it's already quite good for the price imo.

I dunno if I'll post my impressions of the DMG as I'm using it as a point of reference, but maybe in the future I'll post one in the DMG thread. 

Thank you again Clear for the feedback, I really appreciate it.


----------



## parrymike

khighly said:


> Bought it, have not received yet. Will update when I receive it. Not expecting anything fantastic to be honest.



Did you ever receive this zsn bluetooth cable? I'm interested as it is still the only option with the zsn plugs.


----------



## eggnogg

surprise?


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 4, 2019)

eggnogg said:


> surprise?


What? 

...Are you kidding me?  

OK, I'm sold!


----------



## maisdoidoainda

Hello!
I just bought the AS10...
I'm a old zs5 customer, happy for many years.

With the AS10 I have a problem: they drift out of my ears :|
Someone has any recomendation for a good pair of eartips for AS10?

Currently I'm using a chinese double flange with zs5


----------



## CoiL

eggnogg said:


> surprise?


Looks like AS10/AS06 shell (which is no-go for me due to nozzle angle).


----------



## 1clearhead

CoiL said:


> Looks like AS10/AS06 shell (which is no-go for me due to nozzle angle).


Yea, the size could be an issue for me, too...


----------



## sino8r

So... I bet that's the mysterious 16 BA KZ mentioned many months ago... Although I like the AS10, I bet my ZS7 (arrive today) will sound better bass wise. Their BAs have gotten pretty good but nothing can beat a dynamic driver in that department, imo.


----------



## Conest

ZSN after 100hr+ burn in..


----------



## Wiljen

Interesting to me to see the CCA name become the flagship and release a 16 before the KZ branded version.   Does this represent a shift in KZ's marketing strategy?


----------



## Conest

@1clearhead


----------



## 1clearhead

Wiljen said:


> Interesting to me to see the CCA name become the flagship and release a 16 before the KZ branded version.   Does this represent a shift in KZ's marketing strategy?


I am mysteriously thinking the same thing as well.


----------



## 1clearhead

Conest said:


> @1clearhead


Now, that's freaking me out!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

eggnogg said:


> surprise?



Not trying to be that guy,  but lemme be that guy for a second.

What's the point? What's next? 20 BA IEM? Hopefully this don't mean 16 more chances to wire a driver wrong.

I just need one of them company's to make a ed9 with removable cable. 

Now get off my lawn!!! 
Hrmph.


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> Now, that's freaking me out!


*You'll get a free replacement cable too*


----------



## 1clearhead

Conest said:


> *You'll get a free replacement cable too*


How many drivers can one put in the ears before there's no more space...?


----------



## Conest

1clearhead said:


> How many drivers can one put in the ears before there's no more space...?


----------



## Zerohour88

BadReligionPunk said:


> Not trying to be that guy,  but lemme be that guy for a second.
> 
> What's the point? What's next? 20 BA IEM? Hopefully this don't mean 16 more chances to wire a driver wrong.
> 
> ...



CTZ is long there with 21BA per side.







I've explained a bit why tuners would want more driver (other than the "wow" marketing aspect of it), so at this point it gets tiring. so not gonna bother.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 4, 2019)

eggnogg said:


> surprise?





sino8r said:


> So... I bet that's the mysterious 16 BA KZ mentioned many months ago... Although I like the AS10, I bet my ZS7 (arrive today) will sound better bass wise. Their BAs have gotten pretty good but nothing can beat a dynamic driver in that department, imo.



IMHO, the difference between KZ's dynamic low frequency driver and their 22955 balanced armature low frequency driver is more of a wet (DD) vs dry (BA) presentation. My experience, thus far, is that KZ's 22955 BA is quite adept at pulling and presenting an incredible amount of detail in the lower frequencies. It digs just as deep as the DD in my ZS6 but the presentation is different; the difference really shows up on well-mastered tracks.



 


The differences can be clearly discerned when sampling both tracks below using the ZS6 and the BA10 (perhaps the AS10 and AS06 as well).

On the Julie Thompson track you can hear how absolutely clean everything is on both the BA10 and ZS6 but the differences really show up in the presentation of the DT8 Project track.  "Tomorrow Never Comes" is a track with a very heavy low frequency footprint and the dynamic driver's presentation sacrifices detail for maximum impact when compared to KZ's 22955 balanced armature. The 22955 yields slightly in impact for increased precision and definition. Pick your poison and don't look back. 

Better still, get both the ZS6 and the BA10. A testament to how good both IEMs are is just how clean and uncluttered everything else across the frequency spectrum is despite the low frequency onslaught. The soundstage and imaging suffer no degradation amidst said onslaught. 

A good ear will hear, on the ZS6, the addition of the gentle rumble present at the 4:40 mark of this track. The BA10 reaches just as deep but the rumble is less present, but only slightly.






With this in mind, I am looking forward to the CCA C16 if it is a pure BA in-ear.






In addition, now that I've logged more than 200 hours on my BA10 I would like to confirm my earliest claim that the BA10 is a thoroughly refined ZS3(v1) sound signature. For a while I hovered between the ED3"Acme" presentation and the ZS3(v1) presentation but I can now confirm that the ZS3(v1) presentation is the correct designation. My ZS3(v1) with a step down in silicone eartips (medium instead of my usual large) presents a sound signature with slightly elevated lower frequencies and equally elevated mid frequencies with gently rolled off upper-treble.

If a flat EQ would represent a flat sound signature then my ZS3(v1) and my BA10 sound like this.



 

Note that the mid-bass is in check and the midrange is ever so slightly ahead of the bass, just barely, though. The lower midrange retains richness and warmth on the BA10. Definition in the lower midrange was a shortcoming of the ZS3(v1) which had some mid-bass bleed into the lower midrange. Problem solved in the BA10.

GOOD STUFF right there!

Be aware that my BA10 and ZS3(v1) have "NO FOAM in the nozzle. If your BA10 and ZS3 have foam inserts then yours are in stock form. This may result in the loss of definition and cleanliness of the presentation, hence the foam removal.

It'll be interesting to hear final feedback in the coming days from B9 and Sybillance on the AS06 and AS10. Both models employ KZ's 22955 low frequency BA.


----------



## voicemaster

eggnogg said:


> surprise?



8 drivers perside O_O' Holy moly


----------



## voicemaster

DocHoliday said:


> IMHO, the difference between KZ's dynamic low frequency driver and their 22955 balanced armature low frequency driver is more of a wet (DD) vs dry (BA) presentation. My experience, thus far, is that KZ's 22955 BA is quite adept at pulling and presenting an incredible amount of detail in the lower frequencies. It digs just as deep as the DD in my ZS6 but the presentation is different; the difference really shows up on well-mastered tracks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think KZ's bass BA driver is good. It can replicate about 80-90% the sound of DD bass.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my zs7 and I can say that this iem sounds good. I have zs6 and zs7 is absolutely a step up. When I heard the zs6 back then, I always wanting abit more mid present and body, less sibilance and more bass impact. Zs7 totally fixed all of that, mid is alot more forward, sibilance is tamed but you still get that sparkliness and the bass sounds like the zsn. This is just ootb impression, but even ootb the zs7 sounds so good. Alot of people will like this sound and to me, zs7 is like a combination of as10 and zsn.


----------



## voicemaster




----------



## Leo-rume

voicemaster said:


>



These are beautiful. Since you said you have the zs6, are there any physical differences between these shells and the zs6's? no matter how subtle. Thanks


----------



## voicemaster

Leo-rume said:


> These are beautiful. Since you said you have the zs6, are there any physical differences between these shells and the zs6's? no matter how subtle. Thanks



I will make a comparison between the two after work today.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 4, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Just received my zs7 and I can say that this iem sounds good. I have zs6 and zs7 is absolutely a step up. When I heard the zs6 back then, I always wanting abit more mid present and body, less sibilance and more bass impact. Zs7 totally fixed all of that, mid is alot more forward, sibilance is tamed but you still get that sparkliness and the bass sounds like the zsn. This is just ootb impression, but even ootb the zs7 sounds so good. Alot of people will like this sound and to me, zs7 is like a combination of as10 and zsn.



Thanks for the first impressions. 

Currently, my top ranking for KZ is:
#1 - ZS6
#2 - BA10

(don't have AS10 or ZSN yet)

The difference for me is this. In listening to both IEMs back to back I routinely find that when I insert the ZS6 and push "play" an involuntary smirk emerges. That smirk grows to an involuntary grin. Shortly thereafter I don't care about comparing the IEMs anymore because I am completely enveloped in the music. 

To me, this is what makes the ZS6 a great in-ear monitor. 

If the new ZS7 (or CCA C10) presentation can make me smirk and grin in the midst of a comparison then they will be bad*** IEMs.......at any price.


----------



## Leo-rume

voicemaster said:


> I will make a comparison between the two after work today.



Alright, thank you. Looking forward to it


----------



## stmiller

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for the first impressions.
> 
> Currently, my top ranking for KZ is:
> #1 - ZS6
> ...


Spot on doc.. ZS6 rules

All kz has to do is combine the DD of the zsn + ba's of their as10 or ba10..

Voilà


----------



## Leo-rume

stmiller said:


> Spot on doc.. ZS6 rules
> 
> All kz has to do is combine the DD of the zsn + ba's of their as10 or ba10..
> 
> Voilà



Zs7?


----------



## voicemaster

stmiller said:


> Spot on doc.. ZS6 rules
> 
> All kz has to do is combine the DD of the zsn + ba's of their as10 or ba10..
> 
> Voilà



Thats what I said about zs7.


----------



## voicemaster

What I like about ZSN, ZS6 and ZS7 is that I don't feel any build up pressure in my ear after long use (4-6 hours). With AS10, ZSR, ZST and ZS3, my ears feel pressured and I have to take them off after 1 hour or so.


----------



## eclein

The low end BA’s in the BA10 are the best part as they immediately made me hear that a BA can Equal a dynamic if they tune it correctly....Doc am I right?
The 10 has 5 balanced arm.  tuned correctly thats the kicker, no body has them hardly but thats what sold me and has me twitchy about 16.....They absolutely know how to tune them now!


----------



## eclein (Jan 4, 2019)

You guys that open these KZ’s up all the time and have a BA10 can it be stuffed in another kz shell? I’m game to donate mine possibly as I write this less and less......but can it maybe be done. I know it’ll be a stretch and cavities and materials would differ but is it doable?


----------



## SybilLance

drey101 said:


> That'll be something I'll be trying to pay more attention after 100 hours, and I'm excited for it to become even better, as it's already quite good for the price imo.
> 
> I dunno if I'll post my impressions of the DMG as I'm using it as a point of reference, but maybe in the future I'll post one in the DMG thread.
> 
> Thank you again Clear for the feedback, I really appreciate it.



Welcome to head-fi and to the KZ Impressions thread! I remember when Chesky Records (one of the labels that really take great care in recording and mastering) released their Ultimate Demonstration Disc: A Guide To Critical Listening CD I took great pains to have a friend buy it for me in the US. That was when, shall we say, I was still confined to traditional 2-channel stereo.  It really helped a lot. It still does, and I daresay will be just as invaluable in the future. The same can be said for Chesky's Ultimate Headphone Demonstration CD. These 2 are available in HDTracks, which was started by the same guys from Chesky. 

Perhaps you could (i.e., if you don't have them already) get your hands on one? Looking back, maybe one of the best investments I ever made in the pursuit of the love for music. 



Wiljen said:


> Interesting to me to see the CCA name become the flagship and release a 16 before the KZ branded version.   Does this represent a shift in KZ's marketing strategy?





1clearhead said:


> I am mysteriously thinking the same thing as well.



The same thought popped into my head as soon as I saw the post. 



DocHoliday said:


> IMHO, the difference between KZ's dynamic low frequency driver and their 22955 balanced armature low frequency driver is more of a wet (DD) vs dry (BA) presentation. My experience, thus far, is that KZ's 22955 BA is quite adept at pulling and presenting an incredible amount of detail in the lower frequencies. It digs just as deep as the DD in my ZS6 but the presentation is different; the difference really shows up on well-mastered tracks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I echo Doc's observations re: KZ's current dynamic and BA LF drivers. In the very short time I've had with the AS06 (almost the whole day yesterday at low volume, albeit listening loud to certain tracks), the qualities/capabilities that Doc described as regards its LF BA are among those that stand out. Will need several weeks at least to have a clearer picture. As you may have already noticed, I burn in my headphones by listening to them. I call it "letting them settle." 



voicemaster said:


> Just received my zs7 and I can say that this iem sounds good. I have zs6 and zs7 is absolutely a step up. When I heard the zs6 back then, I always wanting abit more mid present and body, less sibilance and more bass impact. Zs7 totally fixed all of that, mid is alot more forward, sibilance is tamed but you still get that sparkliness and the bass sounds like the zsn. This is just ootb impression, but even ootb the zs7 sounds so good. Alot of people will like this sound and to me, zs7 is like a combination of as10 and zsn.



Oooh...you're making me reconsider my $30 earphones resolution.


----------



## PhonoPhi

eclein said:


> You guys that open these KZ’s up all the time and have a BA10 can it be stuffed in another kz shell? I’m game to donate mine possibly as I write this less and less......but can it maybe be done. I know it’ll be a stretch and cavities and materials would differ but is it doable?



KZ AS10 also has 5 BA drivers, and AS10 shell is smaller than ZS10


----------



## BadReligionPunk

SybilLance said:


> Oooh...you're making me reconsider my $30 earphones resolution.



They will probably be $26-30 next sale. LOL. No need to break yer resolution. KZ and CCA are trying to make me break my NY resolution though. It was bad enough with KZ releasing a new product every 3 weeks, but now we get DP'd by the sister company too? Going to be hard for me this year. My plan was to just go ENDGAME. I have serious doubts.  

BTW. I never got the ZS6 cuz treble, so I am eagerly awaiting some more impressions of ZS7, as I have just decided that I should at least test drive a ZS6, but don't want to buy one and then be told ZS7 is way better.


----------



## voicemaster

BadReligionPunk said:


> They will probably be $26-30 next sale. LOL. No need to break yer resolution. KZ and CCA are trying to make me break my NY resolution though. It was bad enough with KZ releasing a new product every 3 weeks, but now we get DP'd by the sister company too? Going to be hard for me this year. My plan was to just go ENDGAME. I have serious doubts.
> 
> BTW. I never got the ZS6 cuz treble, so I am eagerly awaiting some more impressions of ZS7, as I have just decided that I should at least test drive a ZS6, but don't want to buy one and then be told ZS7 is way better.



No sibilance so far for the zs7.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Not trying to be that guy,  but lemme be that guy for a second.
> 
> What's the point? What's next? 20 BA IEM? Hopefully this don't mean 16 more chances to wire a driver wrong.
> 
> ...



80 drivers, with active cooling fans and battery power pack you have to wear around your neck.

J/k

+1 on the upgraded ED9. I would love to see this.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 4, 2019)

I actually would like to see kz release a 10-12 drivers iem and price them around $100-120. Just to shake the really top tier iem and show how overpriced those iems are.
I think kz haa got got tuning right for their iem. They got their house sound started from as10.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> 80 drivers, with active cooling fans and battery power pack you have to wear around your neck.
> 
> J/k
> 
> +1 on the upgraded ED9. I would love to see this.


----------



## sino8r

Okay, got mine today too. They sound similar to the AS10/BA10 and have added bass punch. No sibilance like the ZS6. I even tried a few songs that have sibilance on almost 1/3 of my IEM's and nothing but sparkle. The internals are quite interesting. The cross circuits are right in open behind the shell and are wired pretty crazy but neatly. Shows me that it was carefully done. I took the screen off the nozzle and saw some isolation foam in front of the BA chamber. Looks really well made. I think this is the best iem from KZ to date. I'd don't feel the need to modify anything. I'm really impressed!


----------



## sino8r (Jan 4, 2019)

Let's put it this way, I think they (ZS7) sound better than the new ibasso IT01S and almost as good as my IMR R1. The IMR Zeniths haven't arrived yet but I can't imagine them being too different from the R1. The it01s supposedly needs like 200 hours burn-in but that's sounds a bit extreme. I've had DLC and graphine coating on dynamics before and they do need some burn in but not hundreds of hours lol! I've got near 70 hrs or so and the ZS7 blows it aways in soundstage and full sounding. The Ibasso might have slightly better accuracy in details and more natural sounding but that's because it's a plastic shell with one dynamic. Even my IEMs with Knowles BAs aren't perfectly accurate. I hate to say this but the ZS7 is leaps and bounds better than my ZSN and is further refined than my AS10. This is all my opinion but it's definitely worth a try for those who haven't upgraded to all BA models. Even those with the ZSNs will be happy with the larger, beefier sound.


----------



## 1clearhead

stmiller said:


> Spot on doc.. ZS6 rules
> 
> All kz has to do is combine the DD of the zsn + ba's of their as10 or ba10..
> 
> Voilà


 = CAA C10

...just had to throw that one in!


----------



## 1clearhead

That crossover circuit board looks eerily close to the C10's! ...Maybe the same circuitry flow and balance?


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> That crossover circuit board looks eerily close to the C10's! ...Maybe the same circuitry flow and balance?



Or you can say that zs7 is the KZ version of C10


----------



## voicemaster

Leo-rume said:


> These are beautiful. Since you said you have the zs6, are there any physical differences between these shells and the zs6's? no matter how subtle. Thanks



The ZS7 is 1mm thicker than the ZS6 and the three side vents are more diagonal on the ZS7. Other than that, they are pretty much similar on the outside.


----------



## CYoung234

Miki811 said:


> Yeah, it's kinda thin on my phone that's why I'm mostly using my iPod touch for music playback. On Kenrockwell's website, it was seen that the iPod touch is able to drive 32 ohm headphones easily, which has the same impedance as the ZS10 which makes me think twice about buying an amp. But reviews mostly say that it definitely benefits from amping, which makes me wanna buy lol



I am going to suggest that if you feel the ZS10 sounds thin that you have a bad seal. They do have short tips and are large, so it can be tricky getting a good fit and seal. But I do not find them thin at all, and you have a better source than my Nexus 6p...


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 5, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> No sibilance so far for the zs7.


Nor with the AS06. So far.

Btw was lounging on the sofa and listening when my husband sauntered over and showed me another screenshot, this time of the CCA C10 he had just bought for me for $26 via a Men's Day promo from Shopee.ph.

Surely my smile split my face in two.

"Is it the black?"

"Thought you fancied the cyan."

Oh.

Never mind, not a big deal. But I'm thinking I still have the AS06 to listen to...hmm...well, will deal with it when it arrives.

The $30 resolution is holding strong and steady!

Naturally Hubby was rewarded with more than a Hug. He got a Kiss again.

Back to listening.


----------



## TechnoidFR

CYoung234 said:


> I am going to suggest that if you feel the ZS10 sounds thin that you have a bad seal. They do have short tips and are large, so it can be tricky getting a good fit and seal. But I do not find them thin at all, and you have a better source than my Nexus 6p...



Voices are thin. But definitely bassy, fun engaging and loud !


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TechnoidFR said:


> Voices are thin. But definitely bassy, fun engaging and loud !


Some people love the ZS10. I found the mids a train wreck that needed quite a bit of EQ to get them rockin. Male vocals are thin and tinny, and Female vocals are robotic and hairy. Very antique transistor radio sounding. After EQ they sound great.  Until my ears start feeling like they are about to fall off. Very large IEMS.


----------



## CoiL

sino8r said:


> Let's put it this way, I think they (ZS7) sound better than the new ibasso IT01S and almost as good as my IMR R1. The IMR Zeniths haven't arrived yet but I can't imagine them being too different from the R1. The it01s supposedly needs like 200 hours burn-in but that's sounds a bit extreme. I've had DLC and graphine coating on dynamics before and they do need some burn in but not hundreds of hours lol! I've got near 70 hrs or so and the ZS7 blows it aways in soundstage and full sounding. The Ibasso might have slightly better accuracy in details and more natural sounding but that's because it's a plastic shell with one dynamic. Even my IEMs with Knowles BAs aren't perfectly accurate. I hate to say this but the ZS7 is leaps and bounds better than my ZSN and is further refined than my AS10. This is all my opinion but it's definitely worth a try for those who haven't upgraded to all BA models. Even those with the ZSNs will be happy with the larger, beefier sound.


Instant hard-on! I`m getting it! ;P


----------



## de51red

Hey guys, after long time lurking here, I'm checking in as KZ aficionado since ZS3 and now my KZ collections are ZS10, AS10, AS06.

I would like to talk about my current favorite, the ZS10 with KZ USB-C cable & Pixel 2 XL. Unpopular opinion but I believe this combo made the ZS10 a fun, big soundstage, lesser sibilance, great vocal but less forward than AS10 (I find the female vocal is sweeter here), wonderful separation and presentation, with bass that hit hard and low. Thus has become my daily driver.
I achieve this with Poweramp, flat EQ, few treble and bass enhancements & additional stereo expand.

Another favorite is AS10 with 8-core silver cable with LG V30. Great detail, warmer and more accurate sounding.  For my "in-depth" listening sessions.


----------



## jant71

Sounds like we are gonna  need C10 vs. ZS7 comparisons for sure.  Some early new year fun.


----------



## eclein

My purple C10’s are burning in now.......WOW!


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 5, 2019)

de51red said:


> Hey guys, after long time lurking here, I'm checking in as KZ aficionado since ZS3 and now my KZ collections are ZS10, AS10, AS06.



Welcome to the thread!


Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## chechu21

Any recommendation for a 13 years old boy that listen commercial music: pop, dance and top charts songs?


----------



## MrMajony

chechu21 said:


> Any recommendation for a 13 years old boy that listen commercial music: pop, dance and top charts songs?


ZSN


----------



## zikarus

chechu21 said:


> Any recommendation for a 13 years old boy that listen commercial music: pop, dance and top charts songs?


CCA C10


----------



## mbwilson111

chechu21 said:


> Any recommendation for a 13 years old boy that listen commercial music: pop, dance and top charts songs?



I would suggest buds rather than iems.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ES4 is got plenty of low end thump, and is overall a warm sounding phone with a smooth presentation. Very good for modern bass heavy music. Does the kid like over ear style? Does he need a mic to talk to friends ect? 13 year olds have super crazy good hearing and can hear much higher frequency then even a 25 year old. That could mean that bright sounding phones might be too bright. Tough to rec as a 43 year old who can only hear to 14.6khz. 

Mbwilson brings up a good point.
EMX500 earbuds are really good, cost like $9 and even at loud volumes shouldn't damage hearing.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> I would suggest buds rather than iems.


+1 ...ears need to mature a little more.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> +1 ...ears need to mature a little more.



That was what I was thinking.  I am a bit uncomfortable with the idea of a still growing 13 year old sticking IEMS deep into the ear canal.  Also the point about the high frequency hearing at that age.  When I was a child I remember the sound of the dog whistle that humans were not supposed to be able to hear.  I was using the whistle when I could hear it... I was not miles away... lol.


----------



## TechnoidFR

BadReligionPunk said:


> Some people love the ZS10. I found the mids a train wreck that needed quite a bit of EQ to get them rockin. Male vocals are thin and tinny, and Female vocals are robotic and hairy. Very antique transistor radio sounding. After EQ they sound great.  Until my ears start feeling like they are about to fall off. Very large IEMS.



What IS your source?


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Some people love the ZS10. I found the mids a train wreck that needed quite a bit of EQ to get them rockin. Male vocals are thin and tinny, and Female vocals are robotic and hairy. Very antique transistor radio sounding. After EQ they sound great.  Until my ears start feeling like they are about to fall off. Very large IEMS.



Are you positive that they are not out of phase?  That is nothing like what I hear.  I am guessing you already made sure you found the right tips.


----------



## sino8r

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you positive that they are not out of phase?  That is nothing like what I hear.  I am guessing you already made sure you found the right tips.



It does sound like it from their description but mine always sounded quieter on alot of music. Funny enough, they sound great with TV and movies on my phone.


----------



## CYoung234

BadReligionPunk said:


> Some people love the ZS10. I found the mids a train wreck that needed quite a bit of EQ to get them rockin. Male vocals are thin and tinny, and Female vocals are robotic and hairy. Very antique transistor radio sounding. After EQ they sound great.  Until my ears start feeling like they are about to fall off. Very large IEMS.


Well, yours sound nothing like mine sound. Mine do not really need EQ much, and vocals are not tinny at all. I listen to a lot of male vocals, from classical to pop to rock. I was just listening to One Republic Oh My My. Not tinny at all, sounds great. Soz you might try reversing phase on one side. Or maybe you have one out of phase driver. Like I said earlier I my sources are not great, either my phone, a Nexus 6p or my laptop and a Fiio Q1.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TechnoidFR said:


> What IS your source?



Cayin N5 which is a warm mids forward DAP. Sony NW-A45 and my phone which has a AK4962 32 bit DAC. 



mbwilson111 said:


> Are you positive that they are not out of phase?  That is nothing like what I hear.  I am guessing you already made sure you found the right tips.


They are not out of phase and yes Auvio tips seemed to be the best. 



sino8r said:


> It does sound like it from their description but mine always sounded quieter on alot of music. Funny enough, they sound great with TV and movies on my phone.


If you run through the impression here since they released a large percentage of us are having vocals issues. Male vocals are distant and thin as the upper bass and lower mids seem to recess fairly fast and the huge upper mids spike makes female vocals metallic and edgy or hairy. Lowering some mid bass, adding some db's in the lower mids helps male vocals quite a bit. Squashing that upper mids spike and raising presence and shine a bit helps female vocals. Im supposing that there could be an issue with maybe one midrange driver on both sides, but a large number of people in this thread have expressed the same concerns as I. My guess is its that huge spike at 3k and some of us are more susceptible to it then others. 

After EQ its fine.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 5, 2019)

CYoung234 said:


> Well, yours sound nothing like mine sound. Mine do not really need EQ much, and vocals are not tinny at all. I listen to a lot of male vocals, from classical to pop to rock. I was just listening to One Republic Oh My My. Not tinny at all, sounds great. Soz you might try reversing phase on one side. Or maybe you have one out of phase driver. Like I said earlier I my sources are not great, either my phone, a Nexus 6p or my laptop and a Fiio Q1.



You don't hear the same things as me so there is no  way what I hear could be right? Got it. Good thing we are all exactly the same, and hear the same things. Except those weird freakish monsters that have treble sensitivities, and those weirdos that hate bass and get headaches from it. 

THERE IS A HUGE SPIKE at 3k followed by a massive treble roll-off. LOL  It is very noticeable to me and it kills vocals COMPARED to just about every other IEM I have that does not have that HUGE spike at 3k.

In the case of MBwilson I know she has mentioned numerous times she is a low volume listener. I am a med/high volume listener which means that weird frequency spikes in the upper registers are going to hit my ears faster then lower frequencies and throw the whole thing off in a very bad way. However like I have said once I EQ the things every thing is fine

BTW I am super happy you love them and they sound good to you That's the point of this whole thing.


----------



## Slater (Jan 5, 2019)

chechu21 said:


> Any recommendation for a 13 years old boy that listen commercial music: pop, dance and top charts songs?



Is he rough on gear? My teenager is very immature when it comes to IEMs.

Balls them up and puts them in his jeans pocket. But then gets frustrated that they’re tangled, so pulls and tugs to untangle the cable forcibly. Leaves them in his pocket, so they run through the clothes washer and dryer. Stuff like that.

So in his case, I would use a totally different IEM than if he was super responsible and mature.

Therefore, what IEM I would recommend would depend on how responsible and careful with gear your teenager is.

Also, what others mentioned about bright treble and the superior high frequency hearing at his age is totally legit.

I would recommend something like the KZ EDR1. It’s $3, sounds better than anything even remotely close to that price, is built like an army tank, and sounds great. Treble is not too bright at all. If it gets broken or damaged you’re out $3.

Then when he’s a few years older, step him up to something nicer, like a $50 behind the ear IEM with removable cable. There’s plenty of nice ones in that price range.


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> Is he rough on gear? My teenager is very immature when it comes to IEMs.
> 
> Balls them up and puts them in his jeans pocket. But then gets frustrated that they’re tangled, so pulls and tugs to untangle the cable forcibly. Leaves them in his pocket, so they run through the clothes washer and dryer. Stuff like that.


Get your boy an earphone pouch like the KZ zippered ones. It makes a lot of difference when handling earphones on the move and harder to forget about removing from the pocket when washing the clothes too.


----------



## Miki811

CYoung234 said:


> I am going to suggest that if you feel the ZS10 sounds thin that you have a bad seal. They do have short tips and are large, so it can be tricky getting a good fit and seal. But I do not find them thin at all, and you have a better source than my Nexus 6p...



I'm getting really good seal with the large starlines. Also, I'm sometimes using large/shallow tips which gives me really good seal as well. It just really sounds thin, on my phone (p20 lite). iPod touch, however, brings out the low end considerably. Still waiting on the whirlwinds since I do get better sound on the shallow/large tips than the starlines.



BadReligionPunk said:


> Some people love the ZS10. I found the mids a train wreck that needed quite a bit of EQ to get them rockin. Male vocals are thin and tinny, and Female vocals are robotic and hairy. Very antique transistor radio sounding. After EQ they sound great.  Until my ears start feeling like they are about to fall off. Very large IEMS.



Mine's pretty good as well, same with the other guys here. I don't feel that the vocals are thin. My preferred genre however rotates around the rock genre, leaning to metal.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Is he rough on gear? My teenager is very immature when it comes to IEMs.
> 
> Balls them up and puts them in his jeans pocket. But then gets frustrated that they’re tangled, so pulls and tugs to untangle the cable forcibly. Leaves them in his pocket, so they run through the clothes washer and dryer. Stuff like that.
> 
> ...



Slater, what are the foam things in the nozzles of the ZS7? I figured you'd know... I like that I don't have to mod these lol!


----------



## sino8r

CoiL said:


> Instant hard-on! I`m getting it! ;P



I know, man! Booooiiinnngg! I love when iems are instantly great. You just know. Don't get me wrong there are so that I had to work on to love with mods or tips, etc but nothing beats when they are love at first hear out of the box! Are you getting the IT01s as well? I'm digging mine but the ZS7 has really thrown me a curve ball. I guess I'm a bass and soundstage head since my IMR R1.


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> Get your boy an earphone pouch like the KZ zippered ones. It makes a lot of difference when handling earphones on the move and harder to forget about removing from the pocket when washing the clothes too.



Haha, he has numerous carry pouches - zippered cases, leather carry cases, metal tins, silicone cable roll up things, etc. Those all get ditched in his locker or the bottom of his book bag. It's just a maturity thing. I've tried to show him that is you carefully store it when you're done, it not only protects it and allows you to carry it safely in your pocket, but virtually eliminates tangles when you take it out to use it next time. But like most teens, he knows everything and certainly knows better than his audiophile dad.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Slater, what are the foam things in the nozzles of the ZS7? I figured you'd know... I like that I don't have to mod these lol!



Some sort of dampening foam. I don't have ZS7 yet, so I can only speculate based on the photos.

The ZS6 is one of my all-time favorite IEMs, and I am very excited to get a pair of ZS7 and examine them for myself!

From the initial impressions people have reported, they seem like a worthy successor to the ZS6


----------



## SybilLance

chechu21 said:


> Any recommendation for a 13 years old boy that listen commercial music: pop, dance and top charts songs?





mbwilson111 said:


> I would suggest buds rather than iems.





BadReligionPunk said:


> ES4 is got plenty of low end thump, and is overall a warm sounding phone with a smooth presentation. Very good for modern bass heavy music. Does the kid like over ear style? Does he need a mic to talk to friends ect? 13 year olds have super crazy good hearing and can hear much higher frequency then even a 25 year old. That could mean that bright sounding phones might be too bright. Tough to rec as a 43 year old who can only hear to 14.6khz.
> 
> Mbwilson brings up a good point.
> EMX500 earbuds are really good, cost like $9 and even at loud volumes shouldn't damage hearing.





1clearhead said:


> +1 ...ears need to mature a little more.





mbwilson111 said:


> That was what I was thinking.  I am a bit uncomfortable with the idea of a still growing 13 year old sticking IEMS deep into the ear canal.  Also the point about the high frequency hearing at that age.  When I was a child I remember the sound of the dog whistle that humans were not supposed to be able to hear.  I was using the whistle when I could hear it... I was not miles away... lol.


Agree with all points raised above.

Hearing is too important to damage at an early age.

We gave our kids, then 13 & 15, a pair of Logitech X50 portable Bluetooth speakers ~4 years ago. Got them on a buy 1 take 1 introductory promo, I think, for ~$33. Built tough, sound good, still going strong. The condition: if they take good care of them they'll graduate to headphones. They did. Next condition: volume should be such as to be aware of things around them at all times. They agreed, and gradually developed an appreciation for good music. They now listen at low to moderate levels. And they still clearly hear those 17-18KHz tones I generate from my iPhone.

If peer pressure is a factor, then earbuds, or over-ear headphones, inasmuch as they don't isolate from ambient sound, would be great.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Some sort of dampening foam. I don't have ZS7 yet, so I can only speculate based on the photos.
> 
> The ZS6 is one of my all-time favorite IEMs, and I am very excited to get a pair of ZS7 and examine them for myself!
> 
> From the initial impressions people have reported, they seem like a worthy successor to the ZS6



That's what it looks like to me. It's just funny after we have all added the foam ourselves to so many models. It seems like it helps alot with all those BAs. Mine sounds really good especially for only 50 bucks.


----------



## DynamicEars

BadReligionPunk said:


> *THERE IS A HUGE SPIKE at 3k followed by a massive treble roll-off. LOL  It is very noticeable to me and it kills vocals COMPARED to just about every other IEM I have that does not have that HUGE spike at 3k.*



This is a classical KZ problems i think, they always try to make sound signature similar to harman frequency reference, but their BAs is harsh and always peak at 2.5-3khz. could be tamed down by eq though. Dont get me wrong, im KZ collectors too, but seriously they need to tune up at 1-2khz then bit down at 2.5-3khz until 4khz and goes up a little bit at 5-6 khz for sparkles , from there roll of slowly until 20khz.

im an EQ guy, so i always EQing all my iems not because i want to change the signature, but more like to fix peak / dipped area. Therefore, i always looking for iem that technically good at soundstage, depth, layering, details and clarity without harshness as lack of treble or bass can be fixed with EQ (sub bass is different case). But once an iem is overbass / bass bleed, is harder to fix

just my 2 cents, and hi everyone, ive been reading this site from like 10 years ago, and still cant believe didnt post anything until now lol.


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> This is a classical KZ problems i think, they always try to make sound signature similar to harman frequency reference, but their BAs is harsh and always peak at 2.5-3khz. could be tamed down by eq though. Dont get me wrong, im KZ collectors too, but seriously they need to tune up at 1-2khz then bit down at 2.5-3khz until 4khz and goes up a little bit at 5-6 khz for sparkles , from there roll of slowly until 20khz.
> 
> im an EQ guy, so i always EQing all my iems not because i want to change the signature, but more like to fix peak / dipped area. Therefore, i always looking for iem that technically good at soundstage, depth, layering, details and clarity without harshness as lack of treble or bass can be fixed with EQ (sub bass is different case). But once an iem is overbass / bass bleed, is harder to fix
> 
> just my 2 cents, and *hi everyone, ive been reading this site from like 10 years ago, and still cant believe didnt post anything until now lol*.


Wow!...That's interesting that you joined us after 10 years! I would say "welcome", but you've been at our doorstep for many years. So, that makes you family, LOL!

Cheers!


----------



## DynamicEars

1clearhead said:


> Wow!...That's interesting that you joined us after 10 years! I would say "welcome", but you've been at our doorstep for many years. So, that makes you family, LOL!
> 
> Cheers!


 I know that crazy right?! and some more it is a free forum not a paid membership type one. Guess i was too shy or too lazy to type lol. cheers guys!


----------



## CoiL

sino8r said:


> I know, man! Booooiiinnngg! I love when iems are instantly great. You just know. Don't get me wrong there are so that I had to work on to love with mods or tips, etc but nothing beats when they are love at first hear out of the box! Are you getting the IT01s as well? I'm digging mine but the ZS7 has really thrown me a curve ball. I guess I'm a bass and soundstage head since my IMR R1.


Are ZS7 overly bassy (especially mid-bass)?


----------



## DynamicEars

CoiL said:


> Are ZS7 overly bassy (especially mid-bass)?



Would like to know same answer to this question too, (what coil is asking currently is same with me -about that KPE vs IT01s too lol)
is the ZS7 bass is good? was hoping that they put on the exactly same DD in ZSN with same tune, so far is the best bass from KZ IMHO and probably best bass sub$50, dig down under until low, clean without bass bleed. still, i cant enjoy upper mid of KZs, too harsh and shouty at the peaks
I dunno if i wanna jump to zs7 hype this time (same old oath but always broke em)


----------



## sino8r

CoiL said:


> Are ZS7 overly bassy (especially mid-bass)?



I wouldn't say so in most songs. They are very well rounded and full sounding though. Much like the AS10 or BS10 only they can outdo them with the deeper bass having a dynamic. To me, they are the most even sounding KZ. U shaped. But that's just me... They are alot like ZS6 without the treble overkill yet more refined. I'd think most here would really enjoy them!


----------



## CYoung234

BadReligionPunk said:


> You don't hear the same things as me so there is no  way what I hear could be right? Got it. Good thing we are all exactly the same, and hear the same things. Except those weird freakish monsters that have treble sensitivities, and those weirdos that hate bass and get headaches from it.
> 
> THERE IS A HUGE SPIKE at 3k followed by a massive treble roll-off. LOL  It is very noticeable to me and it kills vocals COMPARED to just about every other IEM I have that does not have that HUGE spike at 3k.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply. No, I was not trying to say that we all hear things the same. Sorry that you got that out of what I said. In the end, as you say, it is all about what sounds good to us personally...


----------



## Zerohour88

CYoung234 said:


> Thanks for the reply. No, I was not trying to say that we all hear things the same. Sorry that you got that out of what I said. In the end, as you say, it is all about what sounds good to us personally...



Your post was clear, no problem with it.


----------



## BoZ29

Hi I’ve been reading here some time and like to share my experience with the zs6. Have experimenting with all the Slater mods, but they weren’t satisfying for me. As I loved the great efforts Slater has put into it, for me I didn’t get the sound I am looking for. The only way these iems sound best for me is to equalize the flaws this monitor has. With a little boost in de mids and a roll off in the highs this is an incredible good iem, if you use the memory foamies that can close up your ear totally. So I use large. Now I am looking for the new zs7. I was wondering, is this really worth the €34 if you have the zs6 already and does the green shell of my zs6 fit on the zs7 as I like the green color very much. (And the blue not so much)


----------



## stmiller

BoZ29 said:


> Hi I’ve been reading here some time and like to share my experience with the zs6. Have experimenting with all the Slater mods, but they weren’t satisfying for me. As I loved the great efforts Slater has put into it, for me I didn’t get the sound I am looking for. The only way these iems sound best for me is to equalize the flaws this monitor has. With a little boost in de mids and a roll off in the highs this is an incredible good iem, if you use the memory foamies that can close up your ear totally. So I use large. Now I am looking for the new zs7. I was wondering, is this really worth the €34 if you have the zs6 already and does the green shell of my zs6 fit on the zs7 as I like the green color very much. (And the blue not so much)


My ZS6 'mod'
. replaced the starlines with the stock tips on the zsn

. packed the nozzle with foam

. eq out the high freq's and bump up mids

. adjust volume to mid-high


----------



## CoiL

I decided not to get ZS7 for two reasons (at least not before it gets hype from ppl I follow and is compared to CCA-C10):
1) It is 1/4 of Kanas Pro price. I rather keep that money for KP.
2) It has ZST dynamic driver for bass it seems. Was hoping for ZS4/ZSN dynamic unit.


----------



## Slater (Jan 6, 2019)

CoiL said:


> I decided not to get ZS7 for two reasons...
> 2) It has ZST dynamic driver for bass it seems. Was hoping for ZS4/ZSN dynamic unit.



Yes, this is very disappointing.

ZSR or ES4 DD would have been good too.

You can always swap DD. It will be even easier to access the DD now that the crossover board is separate instead of being attached to the driver.


----------



## DynamicEars

CoiL said:


> I decided not to get ZS7 for two reasons (at least not before it gets hype from ppl I follow and is compared to CCA-C10):
> 
> 2) It has ZST dynamic driver for bass it seems. Was hoping for ZS4/ZSN dynamic unit.



why they dont just put ZSN dd, its very impressive on sub bass region. so i will pass zs7 for sure, and keep money to save for Kanas Pro Edition instead


----------



## BadReligionPunk

CYoung234 said:


> Thanks for the reply. No, I was not trying to say that we all hear things the same. Sorry that you got that out of what I said. In the end, as you say, it is all about what sounds good to us personally...


No problems at all. You were just trying to help, and I was just being trying to be cute and funny with my reply. I don't really think people with treble sensitivities are monsters.  The people that cant take bass though...

So I see you have 6n1. Do you like it? That's my personal favorite IEM at the moment. Is a more detailed and warmer version of the ZSN(which I also love).


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 6, 2019)

CoiL said:


> I decided not to get ZS7 for two reasons (at least not before it gets hype from ppl I follow and is compared to CCA-C10):
> 1) It is 1/4 of Kanas Pro price. I rather keep that money for KP.
> 2) It has ZST dynamic driver for bass it seems. Was hoping for ZS4/ZSN dynamic unit.





Slater said:


> Yes, this is very disappointing.
> 
> ZSR or ES4 DD would have been good too.
> 
> You can always swap DD. It will be even easier to access the DD now that the crossover board is separate instead of being attached to the driver.





DynamicEars said:


> why they dont just put ZSN dd, its very impressive on sub bass region. so i will pass zs7 for sure, and keep money to save for Kanas Pro Edition instead



Hey! If the things sound good, does it really matter what driver is used? Plus by anniversary sale they will be $26 LOL.

However I guess I cant argue with saving up for MKP. I have enough right now for it, but am waiting on a $50 gift card from my credit card rewards program, and cant find any info on just the Kansas ver which is $40 cheaper. Also IT01 is on my radar as well. Should see a price drop now that the "s" is out?


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Is he rough on gear? My teenager is very immature when it comes to IEMs.
> 
> Balls them up and puts them in his jeans pocket. But then gets frustrated that they’re tangled, so pulls and tugs to untangle the cable forcibly. Leaves them in his pocket, so they run through the clothes washer and dryer. Stuff like that.
> 
> ...



Quote about the EDR1, just got mine some weeks ago and after some listening sessions i've really put my others iems away.
I'm gonna make a review soon (even if i'm sooooo late for these iems as they're old).
They're really WOW, never had something with a huge price/performance ratio that is nearly comparable to these. 

Now, off the quote.

Anyway, got a contact for the ZS7 and the seller already shipped me with a good discount (20$ for the +mic version).
As a fanatic lover of the ZS6, i really wanna hear them as online they seem like an improved ZS6.
Hope they didn't make the bass "lighter" because i loved KZ boost in the bass and sub-bass region and i hope 1DD can easily carry out the same feedback i had with th ZS6.

Does someone have the graphs of both to compare? Really wanna know if i should expect differences in the low end.


----------



## zikarus (Jan 6, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> why they dont just put ZSN dd, its very impressive on sub bass region. so i will pass zs7 for sure, and keep money to save for Kanas Pro Edition instead


Well why not get the CCA C10? It is the better ZSN for sure. So much fun and a good companion to my DM6...

Besides: Hawaiibadboy's video comparison between the Kanas Pro and the IT01s captures the sound signature of the Moondrop quite well. At least the first Fire on the mountain demo sounds quite near to what my (not yet fully burned in) Kanas Pro sound like.

(Anyways my DM6 sound even (much) better to me than the KP at the moment - they are simply amazing. But the KP will get more time before a final judgement)


----------



## DynamicEars

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hey! If the things sound good, does it really matter what driver is used? Plus by anniversary sale they will be $26 LOL.
> 
> However I guess I cant argue with saving up for MKP. I have enough right now for it, but am waiting on a $50 gift card from my credit card rewards program, and cant find any info on just the Kansas ver which is $40 cheaper. Also IT01 is on my radar as well. Should see a price drop now that the "s" is out?



No, it doesnt matter what dd they use as long as sounds great. But i have few KZ and the ZSN bass is indeed the best among all KZ, why they just dont stick to it, old DD drivers are muddy up to 400 hz IMHO but maybe be they tune it differently with ZS7. cant say much though, i dont have ZS7 with me.

About Kanas "normal" edition, its about the same tune with KPE, just with bass boost, and come with different cable. i prefer KPE then adjust EQ for bass boost myself. IT01s in my radar too, currently conflict in KPE vs IT01S. sorry bout a little bit OOT.


----------



## CoiL

zikarus said:


> Besides: Hawaiibadboy's video comparison between the Kanas Pro and the IT01s captures the sound signature of the Moondrop quite well. At least the first Fire on the mountain demo sounds quite near to what my (not yet fully burned in) Kanas Pro sound like.


Will listen to this sound demo straight away when I get home! ;P


----------



## zikarus

CoiL said:


> Will listen to this sound demo straight away when I get home! ;P


Keep in mind that the sound quality in reality is more refined...


----------



## BadReligionPunk

DynamicEars said:


> No, it doesnt matter what dd they use as long as sounds great. But i have few KZ and the ZSN bass is indeed the best among all KZ, why they just dont stick to it, old DD drivers are muddy up to 400 hz IMHO but maybe be they tune it differently with ZS7. cant say much though, i dont have ZS7 with me.
> 
> About Kanas "normal" edition, its about the same tune with KPE, just with bass boost, and come with different cable. i prefer KPE then adjust EQ for bass boost myself. IT01s in my radar too, currently conflict in KPE vs IT01S. sorry bout a little bit OOT.



NP wit a little off topic. You did mention ZSN and ZS7, which I have now also mentioned so not completely off topic.  

Yea I was thinking the same thing too. Get the PRO and just EQ if needed. Being as its a single dynamic it should respond rather well to EQ. However $40 is $40 and I am a basshead at heart. 

Hmm...


----------



## DynamicEars (Jan 6, 2019)

zikarus said:


> Well why not get the CCA C10? It is the better ZSN for sure. So much fun and a good companion to my DM6...
> 
> Besides: Hawaiibadboy's video comparison between the Kanas Pro and the IT01s captures the sound signature of the Moondrop quite well. At least the first Fire on the mountain demo sounds quite near to what my (not yet fully burned in) Kanas Pro sound like.
> 
> (Anyways my DM6 sound even (much) better than the KP at the moment - they are simply amazing. But the KP will get more time before a final judgement)



OMG i already eliminate DM6 from shortlisted contender and this make me confused once again. Anyway yeah C10 got nice review, and they have DD exactly same like ZSN right? but i might getting 1 great iem and stop buying, rather than buy 5 good iems out of curiosity.
Curiosity killed the cat, curiosity kills my wallet.

Edited : just listened to Hawaiibadboy's video. Definitely the first one!!! sounds more better technically with that soundstage, forward and clear mid. second one a bit bloated in bass region, recessed mid and not clear enough. I bet direct comparison will be different though


----------



## zikarus (Jan 6, 2019)

Well I fear you should listen to this



and might wait for his comparison with the DM6 which should come in a few days and then judge for yourself. The comparison gives at least an idea of differences in sound signatures and is very welcome though sounding bader than the real stuff. Don't own the IT01s but to my ears the 1st demo sounds like my MKP... 

The DM6 plays in another league, at least to my preferences, being more fun and forward and meaty though still not lacking refinement (compared to the overall more defensive KP). The C10 is even more fun but less refined than the other two. I guess for someone liking the ZSN signature the C10 is a possible way to upgrade. Still burning in the C10 atm too. Don't know if the DD is technically the same as in the ZSN, but soundwise it seems to me as if... Maybe someone else can chime in (clearhead)?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I like both of them, but the first one definitely has more space in between instruments and a bit more stage. Second one seems a little more pushed together and slightly more bass. Both IEMS are drop dead gorgeous though and they both sound good. Prefer the first one, but like both. Great song too.


----------



## voicemaster

zikarus said:


> Well I fear you should listen to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What iem is the 1st one? I like it better than the 2nd one.


----------



## Slater (Jan 6, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hey! If the things sound good, does it really matter what driver is used?



Of course not.

It’s just a wish. Like saying “It’s disappointing that the ZS10 didn’t have a longer nozzle so it fit people better” or “It’s disappointing that all of the ZSNs didn’t come with the purple ZSN’s copper cable”.

It’s not the end of the world, and it can be overlooked if everything else about it is great. Nothing is perfect.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> What iem is the 1st one? I like it better than the 2nd one.


Same here. Its Moondrop Kanas Pro. 

Btw enjoyed your posts about zsn backthen. It did help me pulled the trigger on zsn and indeed one of the best value iem.


----------



## zikarus

voicemaster said:


> What iem is the 1st one? I like it better than the 2nd one.


Like Dynamic Ears said - my guess is the same: #1 MKP #2 IT01s.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 6, 2019)

zikarus said:


> Well I fear you should listen to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The ZSN has titanium film dynamic drivers, while the C10 has a new type of high definition low distortion dynamic drivers. They both perform well! The only difference I can hear is slightly lower controlled sub-bass coming from the C10 which makes them sound very sweet, while, in the other hand, the ZSN has slightly better detailed bass/upper bass due to the titanium film drivers. The BA armatures on the C10 corrects the upper frequency brightness, which gives better control to a non-harsh and sibilant environment. This is why I scored the C10 a perfect 10 and the ZSN a 9.9. But, personally they are both a no brainer and keepers for me!

-Clear


----------



## eclein

Whie my C10 continue burn in I’m using KZ BA10’s and they still sound great but the two differ in the low end the C10 dd still needs to impress me. The BA10’s I have sound like a dynamic not a BA. That why I’m so pumped that the C16 is happening on the 15th.....counting my sheckles!
Anybody heard a price being bandied about?? (C16)


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> The ZSN has titanium film dynamic drivers, while the C10 has a new type of high definition low distortion dynamic drivers. They both perform well! The only difference I can hear is slightly lower controlled sub-bass coming from the C10 which makes them sound very sweet, while, in the other hand, the ZSN has slightly better detailed bass/upper bass due to the titanium film drivers. The BA armatures on the C10 corrects the upper frequency brightness, which gives better control to a non-harsh and sibilant environment. This is why I scored the C10 a perfect 10 and the ZSN a 9.9. But, personally they are a no brainer and keepers for me!
> 
> -Clear



So CCA doesn’t say what type of diaphragm is used, but they do say the C10 DD has a 30% more powerful magnet.

From my own magnet modding experience, as well as the superior performance we see with super high Tesla drivers in IEMs like the IT01, I can attest that this is a significant contributor to the C10’s excellent low end presentation.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> So CCA doesn’t say what type of diaphragm is used, but they do say the C10 DD has a 30% more powerful magnet.
> 
> From my own magnet modding experience, as well as the superior performance we see with super high Tesla drivers in IEMs like the IT01, I can attest that this is a significant contributor to the C10’s excellent low end presentation.


Yup!...the 30% more powerful magnet makes for better control and sweeter lower sub-bass.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

My C10's left China 2 days ago. They cant get here fast enough. I am hopeful that I am not setting myself up for disappointment.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> My C10's left China 2 days ago. They cant get here fast enough. I am hopeful that I am not setting myself up for disappointment.



Just set your expectations low (or at a realistic level). Then you won’t be disappointed.

From most reports so far, it seems the C10 is slightly/barely better than the ZSN.

Therefore, if you’re happy with the ZSN, then you’ll be happy with the C10. If you feel like the ZSN is a steaming pile of poo, then you’re probably gonna be disappointed.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Yes, this is very disappointing.
> 
> ZSR or ES4 DD would have been good too.
> 
> You can always swap DD. It will be even easier to access the DD now that the crossover board is separate instead of being attached to the driver.



I'll give it a shot. I'll admit, I've never replaced an iem speaker before. What type of adhesive do you use? Is it silicone or specialty glue? I have some ZSNs I'm willing to dissect. I've switched 2 pins to mmcx connections, have modded some iems shells plus have soldered all my life.


----------



## Slater (Jan 6, 2019)

sino8r said:


> I'll give it a shot. I'll admit, I've never replaced an iem speaker before. What type of adhesive do you use? Is it silicone or specialty glue? I have some ZSNs I'm willing to dissect. I've switched 2 pins to mmcx connections, have modded some iems shells plus have soldered all my life.



For IEMs I like E8000 from Aliexpress. It has a needle-like applicator tip that is easy to control.

There’s many other adhesives that would work as well, such as 2 part epoxy applied with a toothpick. There’s also this stuff called “Aleene’s Tack It Over and Over” that I use on full size headphone drivers. It is removable.

The key is sealing the driver all the way around. There can’t be any gaps, no matter how small.

Also, you do NOT want to use superglue or any cyano acrylate type glues though. The whitish fumes given off as it cures will ruin drivers


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> For IEMs I like E8000 from Aliexpress. It has a needle-like applicator tip that is easy to control.
> 
> There’s many other adhesives that would work as well, such as 2 part epoxy applied with a toothpick. There’s also this stuff called notack or something similar that I use on full size headphone drivers. It is removable.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tips. I did think the bass was a little less hard hitting than the ZSN but thought it was my imagination. It still beats the AS10/BS10 in that aspect though. I got a decent holiday bonus so I don't mind spending a few bucks. I'll have to get the notack. I've got plenty of epoxies but that seems really risky with a dynamic lol! What size penta bit was the weird ZSN? I recall that you ordered one...


----------



## PhonoPhi

sino8r said:


> I'll give it a shot. I'll admit, I've never replaced an iem speaker before. What type of adhesive do you use? Is it silicone or specialty glue? I have some ZSNs I'm willing to dissect. I've switched 2 pins to mmcx connections, have modded some iems shells plus have soldered all my life.


Brave endeavor!
From my limited experience with similar projects (not IEMs), a hot glue (polyethylene copolymer sticks for glue guns) may work well, at least for prototyping. It allows for multiple attempts


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Thanks for the tips. I did think the bass was a little less hard hitting than the ZSN but thought it was my imagination. It still beats the AS10/BS10 in that aspect though. I got a decent holiday bonus so I don't mind spending a few bucks. I'll have to get the notack. I've got plenty of epoxies but that seems really risky with a dynamic lol! What size penta bit was the weird ZSN? I recall that you ordered one...



BTW the exact name of the glue is called “Aleene’s Tack It Over and Over”.

The pentabit comes in 2 sizes - 1.2 and 0.8. The one you want to open the ZSN shell is the 0.8 size.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> BTW the exact name of the glue is called “Aleene’s Tack It Over and Over”.
> 
> The pentabit comes in 2 sizes - 1.2 and 0.8. The one you want to open the ZSN shell is the 0.8 size.


 
Sounds great! Are we sure it's the same size dynamic? If the magnet is thicker, I might run into trouble. Might be able to work with 1 or 2 mm difference though. Seems to be room for that


----------



## trollin863

Hey I was thinking of trying the zs3e or the zsr as was previously recommended...Does the zs3e and zsr use the same upgrade cable as my original zs3? Believe it’s 0.75mm. I also just got the trn bt20 0.75 Bluetooth upgrade cable so looking for more options besides the original zs3 to use it with.

Also how much better is the zs3e than the zs3? Should I just buy another pair of the zs3s and try that foam mod from Slater?

Another model I was considering was the zs6 which I know for sure uses the 0.75mm cable...

I actually found a 0.78mm kz upgrade cable in my bedroom that I bought last year but I’m confused as to which models that would work for.

The 0.75mm is the most common one right for the zs3, zs5 and zs6? I’m genuinely curious if I bought the zsrs or the zs3e if the 0.75mm Bluetooth cable would work as this cable was relatively expensive and would like to be able to use it for more than just the OG zs3 though I really like them...

I apologize for such elementary level type questions but just wanna confirm cable compatibility before deciding on my next KZs!!!


----------



## Slater (Jan 6, 2019)

sino8r said:


> Sounds great! Are we sure it's the same size dynamic? If the magnet is thicker, I might run into trouble. Might be able to work with 1 or 2 mm difference though. Seems to be room for that



The driver is 10mm according to KZ.

But I don’t know the thickness or can’t guarantee it will fit, since I haven’t done it myself.

I’ll bet it will fit fine though. The thickness difference is probably only a mm or 2. And they still have to leave some excess room inside the shell for the wiring and crossover whatnot.


----------



## rayliam80

trollin863 said:


> Hey I was thinking of trying the zs3e or the zsr as was previously recommended...Does the zs3e and zsr use the same upgrade cable as my original zs3? Believe it’s 0.75mm. I also just got the trn bt20 0.75 Bluetooth upgrade cable so looking for more options besides the original zs3 to use it with.
> 
> Also how much better is the zs3e than the zs3? Should I just buy another pair of the zs3s and try that foam mod from Slater?
> 
> ...



Technically the 0.78mm cables work with KZs which are mostly 0.75mm pin slots but this usually causes the pin slot to be stretched. Going back to a 0.75mm cable will feel looser or may not hold anymore. In my personal preference, if I put a 0.78mm cable on a KZ then it stays assigned to it.


----------



## trollin863

Great, so just to clarify the zsrs and zs3es have a 0.75mm pin slot? I’m thinking of buying both of these and wanna know for future reference as I have a nice 0.75mm Bluetooth cable I’d like to use with them... 

Thanks


----------



## Slater

trollin863 said:


> Great, so just to clarify the zsrs and zs3es have a 0.75mm pin slot? I’m thinking of buying both of these and wanna know for future reference as I have a nice 0.75mm Bluetooth cable I’d like to use with them...
> 
> Thanks



The only KZs that have ever used 0.78mm were a few of the early satin (not glossy) ZS3. Every other KZ uses 0.75mm.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> The driver is 10mm according to KZ.
> 
> But I don’t know the thickness or can’t guarantee it will fit, since I haven’t done it myself.
> 
> I’ll bet it will fit fine though. The thickness difference is probably only a mm or 2. And they still have to leave some excess room inside the shell for the wiring and crossover whatnot.



I think so too. I just ordered some E6000 glue (no Cyanoacrylates) and a tip set with the 0.8 penta from Amazon. I'm still blown away that my ifixit fancy bit set lacked the tiny pentas. Oh well... They should be here by the mid week. I'll try and work on these the day it arrives (I love projects!) but it maybe this weekend. I'll report back with the results and pics. I'm excited lol


----------



## sino8r

PhonoPhi said:


> Brave endeavor!
> From my limited experience with similar projects (not IEMs), a hot glue (polyethylene copolymer sticks for glue guns) may work well, at least for prototyping. It allows for multiple attempts



People thought I was nuts when converted the 2 pins on the IMR R1 to mmcx. I had to shave alot of aluminum on the housing to get the wider mmcx to fit. I filled the gaps and sealed them with epoxy. Wasn't too difficult and took about an hour or so. I'm up for anything if it's possible and can be fixed if it fails. I do have 15 yrs in the IT field so that definitely helps. Also being impulsive, loving projects and being a bit crazy helps


----------



## Slater (Jan 6, 2019)

sino8r said:


> I think so too. I just ordered some E6000 glue (no Cyanoacrylates) and a tip set with the 0.8 penta from Amazon. I'm still blown away that my ifixit fancy bit set lacked the tiny pentas. Oh well... They should be here by the mid week. I'll try and work on these the day it arrives (I love projects!) but it maybe this weekend. I'll report back with the results and pics. I'm excited lol



Also, make sure you have a good soldering iron and a small tip for SMD work. Some POS $5 30W non-adjustable soldering iron won’t cut it. You don’t need a $1000 Hakko digital soldering station, but the better the soldering iron setup, the better (and easier) the results will be.

Be aware that you should only touch the solder pads on IEM drivers for a small fraction of a second. Any more than that and you will overheat and ruin the driver.

I don’t recommend “lead free” solder for drivers and BAs. You want something more forgiving, and with a lower meting point and wider heat range. A small gauge 60/40 lead is the best.

For cables and jacks I use silver solder. But 60/40 is best for the drivers by far. I’ve never damaged a driver yet once I switched to 60/40.

Be sure to use no clean flux if at all possible. I prefer the gel type of flux, because it stays in place (applied with a toothpick). No clean flux is best, because you don’t want any corrosive flux fumes or residue hanging around the driver after soldering.


----------



## AncientSw0rd

From some of you who have heard both, how do the better KZ models compare to the iBasso it01?


----------



## Wiljen

Zs7 on the way!   Now we wait impatiently.


----------



## Bad-Choices

AncientSw0rd said:


> From some of you who have heard both, how do the better KZ models compare to the iBasso it01?


If you compared them to something like the BA10 then IT01 wins in that price range easily.

However, I have the IT01s now which make the IT01 a bit meh because they fixed the mid-section, bass and treble issues with the originals so I'd recommend that over a IT01.


----------



## DynamicEars

Wiljen said:


> Zs7 on the way!   Now we wait impatiently.



Read few of your reviews and i liked em. Looking forward for your ZS7 review


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Also, make sure you have a good soldering iron and a small tip for SMD work. Some POS $5 30W non-adjustable soldering iron won’t cut it. You don’t need a $1000 Hakko digital soldering station, but the better the soldering iron setup, the better (and easier) the results will be.
> 
> Be aware that you should only touch the solder pads on IEM drivers for a small fraction of a second. Any more than that and you will overheat and ruin the driver.
> 
> ...



I've got a decent one. Used it for a few years now. It has the led lights lol! But seriously, I don't use flux or anything. I usually just hold the wire place with my fingers carefully further up or use a tool that won't stick easily. That's a pretty crude method but that's how I roll. I used to solder phones and boards when I first started in the field. I usually don't need new solder but have some decent silver just in case. Thanks for all the tips. I hope this thing fits so we can have the ultimate ZS7!


----------



## buke9

AncientSw0rd said:


> From some of you who have heard both, how do the better KZ models compare to the iBasso it01?


 Depends on what you are looking for. After a quick listen between the IT01 and KZ ZS10 the 01 is more sensitive so hard to get a A/B as you have to adjust the volume up for the KZ and that throws things off. The IT01’s are more in the fun category and the ZS10 have more detail and separation but still bring nice bass also.


----------



## voicemaster

ZS7 definitely benefit from amping. Using my trn bt20, the bass is less punch and the highs sounds less airy, but when plugged to my Liquid Carbon, the bass is punchy and become really solid and the highs has this sparkle that is really noticeable with cymbal sound.


----------



## Slater (Jan 7, 2019)

sino8r said:


> I've got a decent one. Used it for a few years now. It has the led lights lol! But seriously, I don't use flux or anything. I usually just hold the wire place with my fingers carefully further up or use a tool that won't stick easily. That's a pretty crude method but that's how I roll. I used to solder phones and boards when I first started in the field. I usually don't need new solder but have some decent silver just in case. Thanks for all the tips. I hope this thing fits so we can have the ultimate ZS7!



Sounds good friend!

BTW, flux has so many positive benefits. It's only a few dollars, and a container can last you years as you only use a small amount at a time. It's even necessary to maintain your soldering iron tips. And keeping those in top condition makes all the difference in the world as well.

Maybe at some point pick up a small container of it and give it a try. You'll wonder how you ever got along without it.


----------



## assassin10000

SybilLance said:


> That's how the ZSN looks in my ear! Very comfy. Disappears after sometime. Quite surprisingly the AS06's shape is a natural fit for the contours of my concha. No portion of the housing presses into it. They don't disappear from cognition like the ZSN does—they seem to be comparatively heavier. The projection angle of the nozzle seems to be not a problem either. Fortunately I quickly found the right tip. The Starlines create an unpleasant suction effect.
> 
> Perhaps it could be the same for you as well..?
> 
> An alternative would be the CCA C10. The Mate of the ZSN according to Clear and highly recommended by him. To paraphrase him, exact same housing, similar base sound, but better, more mature, more refined.



I've still been doing some contemplating on AS06 or CCA C10. 

Does the AS06 sit just 'outside' the concha due to the longer nozzle? That would place the upper part of the AS06 'over' the antihelix and fossa.


----------



## purplesun (Jan 10, 2019)

Straight out of their boxes, comparing AS06 vs ZSN:
I would pick AS06 for better refinement and open sound. No lower bass that I can hear (below 75hz).
The ZSN is a bit veiled and closed sounding. A tad bit bassier, but no low rumbling lower bass. A bit more comfortable fit for me, but no major fit issue with either.

22 hours in:
- AS06 lost some refinement. Still open sounding. The treble has stretched upwards. Treble sounds messy, I think the transducers are still trying to get to its designed operating parameters. I will leave it for another day and listen again.
- ZSN went through big changes. The veil has been removed and opens up nicely. The bass is more distinct now. No low rumbly sub-50hz. But, IMO, a moderate hump around 100hz tapering down towards lower & upper bass. IMO, the bass sound is likely not meaty enough for bassheads. Treble is sparkly without being too hot for an IEM and mostly defines the character of any song ZSN plays.

50 hours in:
- AS06 Most frequencies below 7k/8k seem to have settled. A lean presentation from 100hz up to that point; the highest treble BAs are probably still working in; freqs beyond high-hat ranges are very lean, unnatural and at higher volume than the rest of the settled frequencies. Will give it another day.
- ZSN Still no basshead grunt in the lower registers, but it's more musical now. The lush upper bass in charge now, with mid-bass and treble in good support. That's enough burn-in for this IEM, it sounds good enough to start using. I hope the higher treble sweetens bit more with use.

75 hours in:
-AS06 Slightly thicker in the mid/upper trebles and a bit less brittle sounding now. As a personal preference, the treble is too much for me to handle. It's probably more for trebleheads or EQ cuts applied to the treble range. The rest of the music down to mid-bass is fine but lacks the musicality of the ZSN. Definitely leaner in presentation than ZSN. I am guessing this is probably be the sound signature for most of it's operating life.

Note: Flat EQ in all listening tests. Same music source all all drivers via un-amped individual PCM512 DACs.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I read under the trn v80 reviews that the ed16 isn't as good. Can anyone confirm? I love kz so I doubt it's true. 

Anyone still use their ed16 on a regular rotation?


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I read under the trn v80 reviews that the ed16 isn't as good. Can anyone confirm? I love kz so I doubt it's true.
> 
> Anyone still use their ed16 on a regular rotation?


Other than an average soundstage, it has an excellent balanced sound signature with an organic and luscious sound field to them.


----------



## zikarus (Jan 7, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> What iem is the 1st one? I like it better than the 2nd one.


Just saw in Hawaiibadboys video channel that #1 was iBasso and #2 the Moondrop.

Well that makes such comparisons useless for me as listening to this song (in its HiRes version) via my Kanas Pro sounds nowhere near to #2 in the comparison. Even more so it sounds almost like a twin of #1.

Assuming that neither my AE dealer sent me an IT01s in a KP shell nor that Hawaiibadboy had messed up #1 and #2 the only explanation for this I can think of is the use of a different source file. There are different masters / remasters of Grateful Dead records out there all sounding a bit different ...

In the end mbwilson111 being sceptical is right.


----------



## xinn47

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I read under the trn v80 reviews that the ed16 isn't as good. Can anyone confirm? I love kz so I doubt it's true.
> 
> Anyone still use their ed16 on a regular rotation?



ED16 user here! Still love them! (just EQ out 8k). I like them more than my brother's ZSN.


----------



## jeromeaparis

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I read under the trn v80 reviews that the ed16 isn't as good. Can anyone confirm? I love kz so I doubt it's true.
> Anyone still use their ed16 on a regular rotation?



Yes I still use the ED16 "ZS7", it gives more details than ZS6 & ES4, more neutral than ZSN


----------



## CoiL (Jan 7, 2019)

AncientSw0rd said:


> From some of you who have heard both, how do the better KZ models compare to the iBasso it01?


I have no ZS7, AS10, ZS10 but so far, and when looking at FR graphs too - IT01 is clear step to another SQ level over KZs imho.
When IT01 gets mods - another planet.


Bad-Choices said:


> However, I have the IT01s now which make the IT01 a bit meh because *they fixed the mid-section, bass and treble issues with the originals* so I'd recommend that over a IT01.


Was there anything faulty with IT01? Imo no. Take a look at IT01S vs. IT01 graphs (crinacle):






Actually IT01S highs seem worse to me and my hearing. Bass though, is better and not so "overtaking" rest of FR. That I solved with mods.



zikarus said:


> Just saw in Hawaiibadboys video channel that #1 was iBasso and #2 the Moondrop.


Where did You get that #1 is IT01S? 
#1 is Kanas Pro.


----------



## zikarus (Jan 7, 2019)

zikarus said:
			
		

> Where did You get that #1 is IT01S?
> #1 is Kanas Pro.


Hawaiibadboy said so in the commentaries - #1 iBasso #2 Moondrop...


----------



## CoiL

zikarus said:


> Hawaiibadboy said so in the commentaries - #1 iBasso #2 Moondrop...


Ok. Seems I might go for IT01S then but not sure before I get chickenmoon impressions.


----------



## zikarus

CoiL said:


> Ok. Seems I might go for IT01S then but not sure before I get chickenmoon impressions.


You should definitely wait for chickenmoons impressions since my KP sounds much closer to soundsample #1 and nowhere near soundsample #2 (with my Fire on the mountain file which has to be a different version than the one used in the video) ...


----------



## CoiL

zikarus said:


> You should definitely wait for chickenmoons impressions since my KP sounds much closer to soundsample #1 and nowhere near soundsample #2 (with my Fire on the mountain file which has to be a different version than the one used in the video) ...


Yeah, it is confusing. Will certainly wait for more comparison and graphs too!


----------



## HAMS

CoiL said:


> I have no ZS7, AS10, ZS10 but so far, and when looking at FR graphs too - IT01 is clear step to another SQ level over KZs imho.
> When IT01 gets mods - another planet.
> 
> Was there anything faulty with IT01? Imo no. Take a look at IT01S vs. IT01 graphs (crinacle):
> ...



IT01s graph looks like IT01 with vent adjustment and less damper on nozzle.


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> IT01s graph looks like IT01 with vent adjustment and less damper on nozzle.



At twice the cost!


----------



## chickenmoon

Slater said:


> At twice the cost!



Much better resolution on the IT01S so not only a tonal balance tweak.   IT01S arrived one hour ago.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 7, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> I've still been doing some contemplating on AS06 or CCA C10.
> 
> Does the AS06 sit just 'outside' the concha due to the longer nozzle? That would place the upper part of the AS06 'over' the antihelix and fossa.


No, not in my case. The AS06 is really big, yes, but it's outline (like one-half of a heart) is still being framed by my concha and rests comfortably on it. The upper part where the connector is lies just under the fossa, the rounded side rests against the antihelix and the bottom narrower portion points toward and rests on, and fits, the intertragical notch. No long-term discomfort, and i've already logged more than 50 hours with it (as mentioned before, I "burn in" by listening). It's just that it seems i'm most of the time conscious of its bulk and size.

The AS06 is intriguing. Different than all my other KZ's. Have decided to listen to my entire library with it. Would need at least another 3 weeks.


Edit: Missed a preposition.


----------



## purplesun

SybilLance said:


> It's just that it seems i'm most of the time conscious of its bulk and size..



Fully agree with this statement. Not uncomfortable for me as well, but I am more aware of it's bulk than ZSN.


----------



## SHAMuuu

These chi-fi prices keep going up and up, but at like $200 there is the sony 800st, which seems to be the 7550, and comparable to ex1000. One very reputable iem reviewer stated the IT01 is inferior to ex1000.
So, at what point does one wonder if its better to go with jap-fi after $150
Can any chi-fi defeat the 800st by Sony under 200?
This chi-fi market is so insane, i spent like too many hours researching them , i am in a daze


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 7, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> Other than an average soundstage, it has an excellent balanced sound signature with an organic and luscious sound field to them.


Hmm. I didn't  notice the average SS but you might be right. I love how they sound like you're watching a band live.

The ED16 kills live ticket sales! Who needs to pay $50 for a concert ticket anymore? Especially when some artists use computers and lyp synching to fine tune the live sound that may be common, so you never know who does it. I miss the simple old days when music wasnt made with computers but the sound quality wasnt as good then so its a trade off.

But you're right, they sound great. So anyone here who doesn't have an ED16, go buy one! It was considered a must buy in 2017 11/11's sales.


----------



## loomisjohnson

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Hmm. I didn't  notice the average SS but you might be right. I love how they sound like you're watching a band live.
> 
> The ED16 kills live ticket sales! Who needs to pay $50 for a concert ticket anymore? Especially when some artists use computers and lyp synching to fine tune the live sound that may be common, so you never know who does it. I miss the simple old days when music wasnt made with computers but the sound quality wasnt as good then so its a trade off.
> 
> But you're right, they sound great. So anyone here who doesn't have an ED16, go buy one! It was considered a must buy in 2017 11/11's sales.


the ed16 seems to have vanished from consciousness--it's not as energetic or big-sounding as the zsrt and zsn but it may outclass them in terms of bass control and accuracy of timbre. i also get a better fit with the ed16.


----------



## Danfish98

Received the c10 last week and while I'm sure it needs more break in, here's my initial comparison to my current DD, the ZSA. First, at least for my apparently weird shaped ears, the ZSA is vastly more comfortable. The very bottom part of the c10 creates a hot spot on my ear so an hour is the longest I can handle it. As far as sound, the c10 has a much flatter response and will thrill anyone looking for more neutral tuning on a budget.  For me they seem very bass light. What's there is quality but for hard rock and metal the lack of bass quantity makes songs sound lifeless. That being said, it blows the ZSA away in detail and smoothness and makes me wish the mids weren't so recessed on the ZSA. Treble is also more detailed on the c10 but the ZSA has more air.
I'll continue burning them in but the comfort issue means I'll be sticking with the ZSA for most of my daily listening.


----------



## assassin10000

Danfish98 said:


> . First, at least for my apparently weird shaped ears, the ZSA is vastly more comfortable. The very bottom part of the c10 creates a hot spot on my ear so an hour is the longest I can handle it.



I had the same issue with the ZSN on my right ear which has the same housing as the C10.

For me the trick was to heat up the (no memory wire) ear hook and reshape them so the body was both angled & lifted upwards and no longer made contact at the bottom or on either side of the notch.

A larger tip and slightly less deep insertion may also solve it.

YMMV.


----------



## mbwilson111

assassin10000 said:


> For me the trick was to heat up the (no memory wire) ear hook and reshape them so the body was both angled & lifted upwards and no longer made contact at the bottom or on either side of the notch.



This is why I sometimes prefer a regular memory wire to a preformed curve that is the wrong shape for me.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> I had the same issue with the ZSN on my right ear which has the same housing as the C10.
> 
> For me the trick was to heat up the (no memory wire) ear hook and reshape them so the body was both angled & lifted upwards and no longer made contact at the bottom or on either side of the notch.
> 
> ...





mbwilson111 said:


> This is why I sometimes prefer a regular memory wire to a preformed curve that is the wrong shape for me.



Or just remove the memory part altogether.

I’ve found on heavier cables (such as the KZ silver plated “flat braided” 8-wire & the TRN bi-color 8-wire braid), no memory anything is needed. The weight of the cable itself keeps the wire behind the ear. 

And it ups the comfort factor considerably.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Or just remove the memory part altogether.
> 
> I’ve found on heavier cables (such as the KZ silver plated “flat braided” 8-wire & the TRN bi-color 8-wire braid), no memory anything is needed. The weight of the cable itself keeps the wire behind the ear.
> 
> And it ups the comfort factor considerably.



That never works for me.  The cable just gets tangled into my long hair.  If the cable is thick it does not fit comfortably between over the top of my ear as my ears are very flat against my head.

 I like memory wire.  I also like the soft preformed cable if the curve is right.  Some are awkward and I am not confident to hear them.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 7, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> This is why I sometimes prefer a regular memory wire to a preformed curve that is the wrong shape for me.


I definitely prefer the memory wire for it can be shaped perfectly in all dimensions, though it may take some time and efforts.

Just got AS06, and its plastic preformed tube feels more limited to me.

AS06 and AS10 have the same shells (due to a reflective plate AS06 felt larger, so I had to measure with the caliper to make sure, silly me )

AS06 definitely has more prominent highs and perhaps a bit less refinement in the mids compared to AS10.
It felt 2/3 or even 3/4 from ZSN to AS10. I can easily see some would prefer AS06 to AS10. For me - I could be quite happy with AS06, but I get accustomed to and have everything I need for now with AS10


----------



## Slater (Jan 7, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> That never works for me.  The cable just gets tangled into my long hair.  If the cable is thick it does not fit comfortably between over the top of my ear as my ears are very flat against my head.
> 
> I like memory wire.  I also like the soft preformed cable if the curve is right.  Some are awkward and I am not confident to hear them.



I can’t speak for the long hair part, but the flat braided KZ cable is ideal for the removal of the memory wire because its so thin and sits flat against the head. It’s not round like every other upgrade cable out there.

It’s the one that everyone complains about turning minty green.

I think I remember you saying you would stop using it or throw it away after that particular cable turned green. If that’s the case, it would be the perfect time to remove the ear wire and try out the fit. Because you’d have nothing to lose since you’d be getting rid of the cable anyways.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 7, 2019)

If anyone wants one of the new KZ copper/silver mix cables, you can find my three in the garbage. Not only are they too thin and hard to put around the ears but they also have serious problems manufacteuring them.

My first set was out of phase and the newest set  has connection problems in one ear. I havent used the third set much so not sure if there are problems but they're in the garbage anyway.

Stay away and buy the 8 core silver kz upgrade cable instead or the trn 8 core cable if you like flirting with other brands.


----------



## Slater (Jan 7, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If anyone wants one of the new KZ copper/silver mix cables, you can find my three in the garbage. Not only are they too thin and hard to put around the ears but they also have serious problems manufacteuring them.
> 
> My first set was out of phase and the newest set  has connection problems in one ear. I havent used the third set much so not sure if there are problems but they're in the garbage anyway.
> 
> Stay away and buy the 8 core silver kz upgrade cable instead or the trn 8 core cable if you like flirting with other brands.



I agree. I didn’t like my bi-color KZ 8-core either. Thankfully I only bought one.

I think the problem might be that they’re just too thin, making it too difficult to reliably solder all 8 wires during manufacture. That’s just speculation though.

I only use the much thicker TRN 8-wire bi-color cables. And also the KZ 8-wire flat braided silver cables.


----------



## drey101 (Jan 8, 2019)

First I'd like to thank Clear again for the recommendation and advice with regards to the C10, and also thanks to SybilLance for the suggested Chesky albums (they were available in Spotify so I started listening to them as well, and seriously contemplating getting the FLAC versions). I'm probably going to use the Chesky albums for future comparisons, but for this one, I'm still going to use the same previous songs.

Now onto the less important stuff, some updates on my initial impressions of the CCA C10 vs DMG.

I've clocked in around 50 hours into it, 40 hours of constant cascade burn in, the rest just regular listening (not sure what music as I just lent it out to my officemates who were astounded by the clarity and details, one of which bought AS06... might be nice to compare the two when he gets them)

Quoted are the initial OOTB impressions, and directly below the quotation is my current impression for it.



drey101 said:


> OOTB here are my impressions:
> Lows:
> C10 is definitely more boomy than the DMG. DMG wins in details and instrument separation. Kick Drum is more defined in the DMG, but still noticeable for the C10.  I think bass is more drawn out in the C10 compared to the DMG, that's  why it feels boomier.


C10 became cleaner, and more detailed, but still much boomier than the DMG. I feel that there's a small dip though just before it enters the mids. Although the DMG is not neutral, the DMG feels much flatter while retaining some bass presence, making it much warmer than the C10. I didn't know that it could be possible for one pair to have more bass, but for another to feel much warmer.



drey101 said:


> Mids:
> Vocals feel more forward in the C10. DMG still feels more detailed than the C10, like I can hear more instruments more clearly. The opening portion in Misery Business, where Hayley says something about the snare is quite clearer in the DMG, where I actually got surprised and looked around the room as it felt like someone was talking to me.


Vocals don't feel as forward anymore. Interestingly enough, the mids are obviously quite recessed, but the vocals(male/female) are not recessed(nor are they too forward). It's quite fun to listen to as the vocals have space to breathe. The DMG's vocals feel a recessed when comparing it to this (which previously to me, didn't feel recessed at all)



drey101 said:


> Highs:
> C10 is more elevated here, not sure if muddy is still the correct term, but sometimes the instruments feel very crowded. Since the C10 is more elevated, it makes some songs sound much more fun and livelier, although it's more prone to treble peaks. Sibilance is actually better controlled compared to the DMG, although I never encountered any treble peak issues with the DMG.


C10 really improved here for me as the instruments don't feel crowded and muddy anymore. 'Sss' sounds much better than the DMG, but it seems that 'Sshh' are a bit more emphasized (not to the point of being irritating, just noticeable). No more treble peaks at all, while still being more elevated compared to the DMG.



drey101 said:


> Conclusion:
> On some songs, the C10 is way more fun to listen to over the DMG. I dunno, but it seems more of a W rather than a simple V, as the vocals sound much more forward compared to the DMG. The DMG is closer to being neutral, has more detail across the spectrum, has better instrument separation, and is also 3 times more expensive. As they're both hybrids, I think the DD in the DMG has more detail, but tends to be punchier, which quicker delay compared to the C10. When it comes to mids and highs, the notes feel a bit... clipped(?) in the C10. The notes feel slightly more drawn out in the DMG, which just sounds smoother and more natural, but this also tends to making it sound more sibilant as it makes the 'sss' sound feel slightly too long.
> 
> I would recommend the C10 to those who are just starting their audiophile journey, and feel that 100 USD is still too expensive.
> ...



Conclusion:
The CCA C10 really does improve over time a lot, and I'm happy enough with it's current performance that any further improvements is just icing on the cake. Shortlist of changes is the ff:
 - Tighter Bass
 - Vocals are not as in your face, and not as forward
 - No more sounding like there are clipped notes in the mids and highs, making everything sound smoother and more natural.
 - Treble opened up, giving space to the instruments so they don't sound muddy nor crowded anymore.

I hope that the burn-in is really just a settling down of the drivers, as I'd hate for it to degrade over time, but as it is I think it's a much better set than the ZSNs, which while good has this annoying treble peak. While the ZSN is cheaper, I think it's better to just save the money to get this one instead.

Other Notes:
Feel in the ear is the same as the ZSN, so if you find that comfortable then this should be the same. Default mic-less cable preformed hooks aren't comfortable at all for me though, as the hooks seem to protrude at an awkward angle for me when iems are seated properly in my ear. The DMGs hug the ear more, which are more comfortable for me for everyday use, however, the C10 allows my ear to 'breathe' more, making it much feel more comfortable when it's hot or when I sweat.


----------



## Conest

On a totally different topic..
I found these eartips really good..
US $1.97  21%OFF | NICEHCK 1 Set/2pairs(4pcs) M Size In Ear Double-layer Tips Earphone Silicone Eartips/Ear Tip For IM50 IE80 UE900 NICEHCK DT100 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/wBLI61a


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 8, 2019)

I am liking the zs7 more each day. The amount of detail this iem put out is amazing. Oh and this is the 1st kz that has this thick mid, but not overly thick like shure's mid.


----------



## nxnje

voicemaster said:


> I am liking the zs7 more each day. The amount of detail this iem put out is amazing. Oh and this is the 1st kz that has this thick mid, but not overly thick like shure's mid.



This comment makes me even more excited, i can't wait to try mine.. they're still in china ready for the fly.
Anyway, how do you find the bass?
Coming from the ZS6 that had huge bass response and very good sub bass, i rally hope sacrifying 1DD for one more BA didn't influence the bass response, and i hope it's still impactful and "rock'n roll" just how it was in the ZS6 that i used for listening to EDM and heavy bass music.


----------



## voicemaster

nxnje said:


> This comment makes me even more excited, i can't wait to try mine.. they're still in china ready for the fly.
> Anyway, how do you find the bass?
> Coming from the ZS6 that had huge bass response and very good sub bass, i rally hope sacrifying 1DD for one more BA didn't influence the bass response, and i hope it's still impactful and "rock'n roll" just how it was in the ZS6 that i used for listening to EDM and heavy bass music.



At first, the bass abit boomy, but it gets tighter around 30 hours or so. And also the female vocal is very different than other kz that I have. It has more body to it.


----------



## nxnje

voicemaster said:


> At first, the bass abit boomy, but it gets tighter around 30 hours or so. And also the female vocal is very different than other kz that I have. It has more body to it.



How would you compare the bass vs ZS6?


----------



## BoZ29

Just ordered the zs7. Seems like this is the KZ answer on the flaws of the great zs6. A bit more mid for the vocals and less piercing treble so hopefully I don’t need an equalizer anymore. A bit of a gamble, as there aren’t much reviews at this moment. But what’s published so far is very positive. If more reviews will be positive this could be the one to get. I like the metal housing, for me these fit excellent.


----------



## CoiL

voicemaster said:


> I am liking the zs7 more each day. The amount of detail this iem put out is amazing. Oh and this is the 1st kz that has this thick mid, but not overly thick like shure's mid.


I wonder how they perform with amping? 
The current "fight" between KP and IT01S that is going on with no general consensus makes me look again for ZS7 impressions and wait till I read the answer for my next purchase between the lines and make a decision.


----------



## nxnje

CoiL said:


> I wonder how they perform with amping?
> The current "fight" between KP and IT01S that is going on with no general consensus makes me look again for ZS7 impressions and wait till I read the answer for my next purchase between the lines and make a decision.



Man, we all know (and you know even more) how it's gonna end.. you will click that "buy" button and have a blue 5drivers kz in your ears.


----------



## BoZ29

nxnje said:


> Man, we all know (and you know even more) how it's gonna end.. you will click that "buy" button and have a blue 5drivers kz in your ears.


Lol, that’s the KZ story, they are so cheap, you take the risk... until you realise you have spent enough to buy a custom made iem.


----------



## 1clearhead

finally I was able to get an answer today...

*KZ* has always been known as the acronym to "*Knowledge Zenith*" building very affordable and competitive earphones to date. But, even though CCA is their new sister company onboard, I kept thinking...what is their full name? CCA came in as an unknown brand looking eerily similar to the KZ brand earphones with their current hit model earphone, the C10. Well, finally I was able to track down and get an answer today from the company boss! 
 *CCA*'s full name is finally known as "*Clear Concept Audio*"

I think it has a nice catch to it! 


-Clear


----------



## Luxed

BoZ29 said:


> Lol, that’s the KZ story, they are so cheap, you take the risk... until you realise you have spent enough to buy a custom made iem.


Is that really what you want though, don't you think it would get boring? Yes, this custom made IEM has the best fit, but it will always sound the same unless you start to play with EQ. But still, there are things that EQ cannot change.
That's what's fun with ChiFi, you always have something different to try out and to listen to your music with. 
I was looking into maybe buying a custom one day, but I have that voice in my head that always says: what if it's not what you actually want? What 3 months from the purchase you want your sound to change?
Maybe I'm thinking too much about it xD


----------



## BoZ29

Just for fun listening KZ is great, even I use them in my band. But on the long term the metal versions hurt a bit. The ed16 is very nice though. No custom iem for me, I was trolling


----------



## nxnje

BoZ29 said:


> Lol, that’s the KZ story, they are so cheap, you take the risk... until you realise you have spent enough to buy a custom made iem.


Yes, it's just like that. But i mean, you have more IEMs for every genre instead of one allrounder 



1clearhead said:


> finally I was able to get an answer today...
> 
> *KZ* has always been known as the acronym to "*Knowledge Zenith*" building very affordable and competitive earphones to date. But, even though CCA is their new sister company onboard, I kept thinking...what is their full name? CCA came in as an unknown brand looking eerily similar to the KZ brand earphones with their current hit model earphone, the C10. Well, finally I was able to track down and get an answer today from the company boss!
> *CCA*'s full name is finally known as "*Clear Concept Audio*"
> ...


My question is: are they affiliated in any way to KZ?



Luxed said:


> Is that really what you want though, don't you think it would get boring? Yes, this custom made IEM has the best fit, but it will always sound the same unless you start to play with EQ. But still, there are things that EQ cannot change.
> That's what's fun with ChiFi, you always have something different to try out and to listen to your music with.
> I was looking into maybe buying a custom one day, but I have that voice in my head that always says: what if it's not what you actually want? What 3 months from the purchase you want your sound to change?
> Maybe I'm thinking too much about it xD


I'm just like you, so i keep thinking while buying a new kz iem.


Now, in my mind: what can you get from these little beasts is awesome.
The thing that always stops me is that the quality "jump" you have from a 100$ earphones is not so high when you compare it to the price jump.
I mean, you can get a well built iem, with a solid durable cable and shell, maybe a warranty that u don't have with a chi-fi iem.. but what then?
If you think about how much do many mainstream iems cost you can understand there are many mainstream choices around 70-80$ that can be beaten by a 25$ TRN v80 or ZS6 actually (gonna try the zs7 then) and even by the ZSN or the CCA C10 as many people states.
What i mean overall is that maybe the jump is worth it, but you could even start thinking the reason why you've upgraded when you were just a little step back.
There's then a limit in everything, the jump from a huge price/quality ratio earphones to a premium one in the majority of cases isn't always fair.


----------



## 1clearhead

nxnje ...My question is: are they affiliated in any way to KZ?


1clearhead ...Yes.

Their official store also sells the CCA and KZ brand products...
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/4409033?


----------



## crabdog

I know people have been waiting for more AS06 reviews. I wanted to get mine done sooner but life, ya know?  It's here now though (spoiler - I like it)!
https://primeaudio.org/kz-as06-earphone-review-coming-through/


----------



## voicemaster

nxnje said:


> How would you compare the bass vs ZS6?



Alot tighter and controlled imho


----------



## 1clearhead

I am very, VERY tempted to get the ZS7...


----------



## voicemaster

CoiL said:


> I wonder how they perform with amping?
> The current "fight" between KP and IT01S that is going on with no general consensus makes me look again for ZS7 impressions and wait till I read the answer for my next purchase between the lines and make a decision.



Definitely benefits from amping.


CoiL said:


> I wonder how they perform with amping?
> The current "fight" between KP and IT01S that is going on with no general consensus makes me look again for ZS7 impressions and wait till I read the answer for my next purchase between the lines and make a decision.



Using zs7 with my liquid carbon, it sounds fuller means that the bass more body and impact, the high sounds more open and airy.


----------



## Nimweth

CCA C10 is my next IEM. Should be here in a couple of weeks. After all the discussion I am looking forward to this one. I have the ZS10 for comparison so it should be interesting.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 8, 2019)

I was comparing the zs7 and it01 with this song



In this song, it01's vocal sounds more nasal or thin while zs7 has more body to it. Also, snare drum and electric guitar is more pronounced on zs7.
On zs7, the bass has more body than it01 while you can still hear the clicking sound of the kick drum beater. While on it01, the bass is more tight, but doesn't have this satisfying bass oomph to back it up.
On the high, zs7 is more rolled. With it01, it can be overwhelming when there are a lot of cymbal going on, not so much with zs7.


----------



## Mikel84 (Jan 8, 2019)

Hi guys, I recently bought the ZSN's but when I tried them the right one doesn't fit well. So I've been looking closely and I'm pretty 100% shure the right earplug is 1 mm deeper/higher than the left one. When put in all the way the sound is blocked.. So if have to adjust 1 mm taking them a bit out but then the bass stereo effect is distorted  Is there anyone who can confirm this? I'll include some pictures.

https://imgur.com/a/yNnPYpM without eartips 

https://imgur.com/a/HnXYIEw with eartips


----------



## voicemaster

Mikel84 said:


> Hi guys, I recently bought the ZSN's but when I tried them the right one doesn't fit well. So I've been looking closely and I'm pretty 100% shure the right earplug is 1 mm deeper/higher than the left one. When put in all the way the sound is blocked.. So if have to adjust 1 mm taking them a bit out but then the bass stereo effect is distorted  Is there anyone who can confirm this? I'll include some pictures.
> 
> <blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/2kRHBIF"><a href="//imgur.com/2kRHBIF"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



If you can clearly see a difference between the left and right aside from the obvious differences from left and right side, you better return it and ask for replacement imho.


----------



## Mikel84

I've just included pictures. Kz says they don't understand my question,, the size is different they ask. So I provided them some more pictures. And asking here if I'm the only one.. And also wondering .. How could this be possible?


----------



## HerrXRDS

voicemaster said:


> I was comparing the zs7 and it01 with this song
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Now I'm really excited. Ordered my ZS7 4 weeks ago when it first appeared thinking I'll get it first. It's still stuck on a boat somwhere, in the meantime people get theirs from Amazon with next day shipping. Such is life.


----------



## BoZ29

voicemaster said:


> I was comparing the zs7 and it01 with this song
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This sounds like a winner. Can you try Underwater love van Soulperfreesia? It’s on Spotify. Just curious if the voice of Princess Freesia has the high pitch without being harsh or piercing. With zs6 It hurts without equalization.


----------



## SHAMuuu

I put some hifiman filters on the KZ ZS10 nozzles, which cleans up the highs a bit. Or maybe it's my imagination.

Also, I wish KZ makes red/blue combo of KZ ZS7 ,



Always KING YOU tips ladies and gents with KZ


----------



## B9Scrambler

SHAMuuu said:


> I put some hifiman filters on the KZ ZS10 nozzles, which cleans up the highs a bit. Or maybe it's my imagination.
> 
> Also, I wish KZ makes red/blue combo of KZ ZS7 ,
> 
> ...



That's exactly what I did with mine, though I never found the highs an issue. Definitely made them a touch smoother sounding though.


----------



## SHAMuuu

B9Scrambler said:


> That's exactly what I did with mine, though I never found the highs an issue. Definitely made them a touch smoother sounding though.



Yea it wasn't bothering me really, and like you, was looking for a smoother sound so i can crank it up a notch or two more.
I'm not sure which tips you use, but i used mostly comply. but then used KING YOU after finding success with them on the ATE


----------



## B9Scrambler

SHAMuuu said:


> Yea it wasn't bothering me really, and like you, was looking for a smoother sound so i can crank it up a notch or two more.
> I'm not sure which tips you use, but i used mostly comply. but then used KING YOU after finding success with them on the ATE



I usually roll with Spintfits on mine, though I don't mind the stock tips either.


----------



## Nimweth (Jan 8, 2019)

The ZS10 has a 10mm DD, 2x50060 BA and 2x30095 BA. Does anyone know the driver types in the CCA C10? Meanwhile I have fitted the foam tips from my Whizzer A15 pro to the ZS10 and an getting a much more balanced sound. There's still a little harshness in the treble but it is reduced.


----------



## hiflofi

Looks like I might be interested in budget chifi again. The KZ ZS7 might be my beater pair, pending more information/reviews.


----------



## Podster

Mikel84 said:


> Hi guys, I recently bought the ZSN's but when I tried them the right one doesn't fit well. So I've been looking closely and I'm pretty 100% shure the right earplug is 1 mm deeper/higher than the left one. When put in all the way the sound is blocked.. So if have to adjust 1 mm taking them a bit out but then the bass stereo effect is distorted  Is there anyone who can confirm this? I'll include some pictures.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/yNnPYpM without eartips
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/HnXYIEw with eartips



Holy Crapola! You had me nervous so I had to "Excuse me while I whip this out"

So I took a few pictures to see if I was seeing them the same as yours and what I have discovered is the angle of the photo makes a BIG difference with hardly any miss alignment! These first two shots kind of make them look uneven



 


 

But from this angle and aligned even and straight they look fine at least to me



 

This whole thing scared me so much I had to go in and do a full team inspection of my babies


----------



## kennyhack (Jan 8, 2019)

Danfish98 said:


> Received the c10 last week and while I'm sure it needs more break in, here's my initial comparison to my current DD, the ZSA. First, at least for my apparently weird shaped ears, the ZSA is vastly more comfortable. The very bottom part of the c10 creates a hot spot on my ear so an hour is the longest I can handle it. As far as sound, the c10 has flatter response and will thrill anyone looking for more neutral tuning on a budget.  For me they seem very bass light. What's there is quality but for hard rock and metal the lack of bass quantity makes songs sound lifeless. That being said, it blows the ZSA away in detail and smoothness and makes me wish the mids weren't so recessed on the ZSA. Treble is also more detailed on the c10 but the ZSA has more air.
> I'll continue burning them in but the comfort issue means I'll be sticking with the ZSA for most of my daily listening.


I received the C10 this morning, and I've been listening to them for the whole day, and comparing them to my KZ ZSN. Out of the box, the first impression has been similar to yours, I feel they have a flatter response than ZSN especially in the bass region & low frequencies. For my taste (used to ZSN sound sig) it lacks body & punch on the bass. Mids seem to me more a bit more recessed on C10 than on ZSN, but highs are a bit smoother and there are no treble or harsh peaks as 1clearhead said on his C10 multiple reviews. I hope that after a proper burn-in (50 - 60 hours minimum) they start to shine more and take over ZSN, but for now I'd rather pick ZSN.

Another thing that I miss from ZSN is that C10 does NOT have nozzle lip. I've been tip rolling, and bigger tips (size L) fall and get stuck inside my ears :s





CCA C10 (no nozzle lip - what may seem nozzle lip is actually the balanced armatures inside) vs. KZ ZSN with nozzle lip.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Nimweth said:


> The ZS10 has a 10mm DD, 2x50060 BA and 2x30095 BA. Does anyone know the driver types in the CCA C10? Meanwhile I have fitted the foam tips from my Whizzer A15 pro to the ZS10 and an getting a much more balanced sound. There's still a little harshness in the treble but it is reduced.



Exact same BA's. Looks like different 10mm dd with different magnet.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I love to see some graphs for the c10. Does anyone with the gear also have c10 on order? I am mainly interested in a comparison to ZS10. Mine landed in New York 2 days 18 hours ago. Just waiting for clearance then they will be here.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 8, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> The ZS10 has a 10mm DD, 2x50060 BA and 2x30095 BA. Does anyone know the driver types in the CCA C10? Meanwhile I have fitted the foam tips from my Whizzer A15 pro to the ZS10 and an getting a much more balanced sound. There's still a little harshness in the treble but it is reduced.



Same BA's different configuration. 

Note the 1+1(50060 BA + 30095 BA) nozzle placement and the 1+1(50060 BA + 30095 BA) cavity placement on the C10 vs the quad-formation and placement on the ZS10. 

ZS10



 


 

C10


 



KZ's published FR graphics shows that the sound signature differs as well.

ZS10


 

C10


 



Podster said:


> This whole thing scared me so much I had to go in and do a full team inspection of my babies




That's the awesome foursome right there, Pod but you know.......you'll need to complete the set.







KZ might as well put the gold paint (BA10) to use and give us more options with a bad*** black/gold ZS7.

.......just sayin'.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 8, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> The ZS10 has a 10mm DD, 2x50060 BA and 2x30095 BA. Does anyone know the driver types in the CCA C10? Meanwhile I have fitted the foam tips from my Whizzer A15 pro to the ZS10 and an getting a much more balanced sound. There's still a little harshness in the treble but it is reduced.


They're probably the same BA armatures placed in different areas inside the housing. But, what changes are the 10mm dynamic drivers and the crossover circuit boards, that's why they probably sound different.


----------



## crabdog

Mikel84 said:


> Hi guys, I recently bought the ZSN's but when I tried them the right one doesn't fit well. So I've been looking closely and I'm pretty 100% shure the right earplug is 1 mm deeper/higher than the left one. When put in all the way the sound is blocked.. So if have to adjust 1 mm taking them a bit out but then the bass stereo effect is distorted  Is there anyone who can confirm this? I'll include some pictures.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/yNnPYpM without eartips
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/HnXYIEw with eartips


It's probably just that your left and right ear canals are different. It's very common and I have this myself. My left ear is smaller and works with more IEMs and tips but the right is larger and more finicky. I can use regular L size in the left but my right ear demands XL tips.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Luxed said:


> Is that really what you want though, don't you think it would get boring? Yes, this custom made IEM has the best fit, but it will always sound the same unless you start to play with EQ. But still, there are things that EQ cannot change.
> That's what's fun with ChiFi, you always have something different to try out and to listen to your music with.
> I was looking into maybe buying a custom one day, but I have that voice in my head that always says: what if it's not what you actually want? What 3 months from the purchase you want your sound to change?
> Maybe I'm thinking too much about it xD


If anything, KZ offers very diverse sound options.
For me it is so much interesting and rewarding to get a good bunch of their IEMs rather some custom piece, for which there always be upgrades, etc.
I started my KZ journey  with KZ ZS10, which is not my favourite, but an interesting one.
AS10 was so much a hit for me (!), so it is my primary IEM for more than 3 months now!
I really liked ZSN (today I got a purple one just for the cable )
ZSA is not exactly for me but definitely a very good V-shaped one for the money.
AS06 - lovely, more prominent highs than AS10.
Tempted a bit by ZS7, and definitely looking forward to AS/BA16!!


----------



## darmanastartes

BadReligionPunk said:


> I love to see some graphs for the c10. Does anyone with the gear also have c10 on order? I am mainly interested in a comparison to ZS10. Mine landed in New York 2 days 18 hours ago. Just waiting for clearance then they will be here.


I have a pair incoming for review, which I will take measurements of. Someone had the idea of taking measurements at listening volume at different time markers to evaluate burn-in, which I will be doing too.


----------



## Danfish98

BadReligionPunk said:


> I love to see some graphs for the c10. Does anyone with the gear also have c10 on order? I am mainly interested in a comparison to ZS10. Mine landed in New York 2 days 18 hours ago. Just waiting for clearance then they will be here.


I don't have the equipment to measure it but bass quantity is less on the c10, mids are more even on the c10 and don't have the weird "honkyness" in the upper mids that the zs10 has. Treble is similarly detailed in both but less laid back on the c10.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Same BA's different configuration.
> 
> Note the 1+1(50060 BA + 30095 BA) nozzle placement and the 1+1(50060 BA + 30095 BA) cavity placement on the C10 vs the quad-formation and placement on the ZS10.
> 
> ...



Ooh Blue


----------



## crabdog

darmanastartes said:


> I have a pair incoming for review, which I will take measurements of. Someone had the idea of taking measurements at listening volume at different time markers to evaluate burn-in, which I will be doing too.


This has been done before, always with the same results (none). I'm not trying to discourage you - more data points are always useful. But I wouldn't expect to see any changes.


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> finally I was able to get an answer today...
> 
> *KZ* has always been known as the acronym to "*Knowledge Zenith*" building very affordable and competitive earphones to date. But, even though CCA is their new sister company onboard, I kept thinking...what is their full name? CCA came in as an unknown brand looking eerily similar to the KZ brand earphones with their current hit model earphone, the C10. Well, finally I was able to track down and get an answer today from the company boss!
> *CCA*'s full name is finally known as "*Clear Concept Audio*"
> ...


It's so fitting that Clear was also the first to bring the CCA C10 to the fore of the perception of many and the first as well to highly recommend it. 

And yes, its name certainly does have a nice Clear ring to it.


----------



## durwood (Jan 8, 2019)

Indeed, I had accepted a challenge to measure the ZSN out of the box and then at later intervals. While I waited for them to arrive I researched the best way to take such measurements. Tyll had a good article https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break-page-4

He thought IMD was where it would show up, I have no way to take such measurements, I only do it for comparison hobby sake. I have not seen anything that shows a change I only have a couple hours of break-in on it, it certainly does not show up in a frequency response graph. I thought I had captured something in regular distortion measurements until I realized it was the central heating system background noise that increased distortion <200hz. So my data shows nothing worth mentioning, I am not going to pursue trying to measure it at this point even with more break-in time. The cable between my purple and cyan ZSN does not affect anything in the measurements either, not that I am surprised by that. The only variation is mainly insertion depth, and you can't really compare much past 10khz since positional changes will cause even the same IEM to have different results. Disclaimer: My bias/opinions are that I think dynamic drivers can change slightly but it happens fairly quickly, and unless the cable is severely broken, it will not make a difference, and minor impedance changes are more likely a result of connection points and not the wire itself. An additional series resistance of 0.5ohms should not do much to a 16+ohm earphone. Not looking to start a discussion on cables, just making it clear where I have bias.

For the record, my cyan ZSN does not have the extra hole in the body, but the purple one does. Slater was so kind to measure the metal faceplate holes, and I agree the purple holes are larger than the cyan ones. However, I do not see any measurable difference between them nor do I hear any difference. In conclusion, it is of my opinion I either cannot hear these changes because I lack golden ears, or it is a placebo that the light colored cable makes a sound difference. I will measure the cable tomorrow with a laboratory grade 4 wire kelvin tester just for informational purposes.

Measurement info: Dayton UMM-6, REW, 8mm vinyl clear hose as my coupler with an approximate volume that matches IEC standands, and I try to use the tin audio T2 small widebore for all my measurements because it fits securely into the tube without deforming too much.

CYAN vs Purple


Spoiler









CYAN with stock cable vs light copper cable from purple ZSN


Spoiler









ZSN with small wide bore tip from T2 vs stock medium starline (maybe just maybe it affects the upper top end...again that is the zone of unreliably measurements)


Spoiler


----------



## durwood

One more fun graph, switched to 1/3 smoothing because this is what our brain does and you can see how the peaks kind of melt away.


Spoiler


----------



## SybilLance

voicemaster said:


> I was comparing the zs7 and it01 with this song
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You know what? @voicemaster you're a bad influence. Every time I read your ZS7 posts my $30 earphones resolution becomes less and less defined, and loses shape and...starts to disappear.

What with still listening to the AS06 (truly great in-ears, unique among all my other KZs—it's qualities just confirmed by crabdog) and the coming CCA C10 I already have my ears full. Oh well. If the ZS7 would be offered below $30 during the mid-year sales...

In the meantime, I will try my best to avoid any post you have with the ZS7 as subject.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 10, 2019)

I got my AS10 in the mail today and at first listen I expected something more unique like the ZSN. The ZSN is a fun big guy. He has his flaws but he's a good listen. The AS10 seems to be more crystal clear and with better representation but the same sound signature as some of their other iems.

PS: I read a review that stated non-KZ tips fall off easily from the AS10? That's lame. I wish I knew that earlier. So the AS06 has the same problem?


----------



## SybilLance

crabdog said:


> I know people have been waiting for more AS06 reviews. I wanted to get mine done sooner but life, ya know?  It's here now though (spoiler - I like it)!
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-as06-earphone-review-coming-through/


Great review! The FR graphical comparison overlays are most welcome, always—I love them.

More or less confirms and reinforces what I've been hearing so far as regards reproduction across the (my) audible frequency range. Still listening and forming my own impressions at the moment as I go through my library.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

It looks like the KZ AS06 is $42.50 CAN and the CCA C10 is $41.00 CAN on Gearbest. Which is the killer of the other? AS06?


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> It's so fitting that Clear was also the first to bring the CCA C10 to the fore of the perception of many and the first as well to highly recommend it.
> 
> And yes, its name certainly does have a nice Clear ring to it.


I had nothing to do with it...


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It looks like the KZ AS06 is $42.50 CAN and the CCA C10 is $41.00 CAN on Gearbest. Which is the killer of the other? AS06?


----------



## crabdog

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It looks like the KZ AS06 is $42.50 CAN and the CCA C10 is $41.00 CAN on Gearbest. Which is the killer of the other? AS06?


I have a C10 on the way and am looking forward to doing a comparison.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 9, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It looks like the KZ AS06 is $42.50 CAN and the CCA C10 is $41.00 CAN on Gearbest. Which is the killer of the other? AS06?



Wish I could have a straightforward answer at the moment. The CCA C10 has just been shipped from its China sorting center, so in the meantime Clear's description of a more mature, more refined, more professional rendition of the ZSN is my reference to its sound. The AS06 is another thing. What I'd said about the ED16 earlier, about it taking my preference when listening to acoustic guitar or violoncello solos or chamber string ensembles, more appropriately applies to the AS06; and the AS06, to use your term, simply kills it. In tone quality (timbre) and ability to reproduce texture, it is better than all my in-ears including the KZs (ATE c. 2016, ZS5 v1, ZS6, ED16 and ZSN). Its reproduction of textural quality even surpasses the Ostry KC06. And I'm still listening to it.


1clearhead said:


> I had nothing to do with it...



Lol!... Ha!


----------



## voicemaster

BoZ29 said:


> This sounds like a winner. Can you try Underwater love van Soulperfreesia? It’s on Spotify. Just curious if the voice of Princess Freesia has the high pitch without being harsh or piercing. With zs6 It hurts without equalization.



I tried this and her voice is not harsh at all. Nice song btw.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 9, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> I was comparing the zs7 and it01 with this song
> 
> 
> 
> ...




O_o

I do not have ZS7 to compare but I certainly do not agree with points in bold.
IT01 doesn`t have bass oomph? LOL Seems Your preference is in raised mid-bass and looser bass?
I`m also sensitive to highs and never experienced overwhelming highs, even in modded configuration (which "raises" highs response).
What is Your source gear and amping? What tips did You use on both IEMs?

While it would be great if ZS7 "beats" 100$ quality IEM, I`m sorry, I do not belive KZ makes suddenly such high jump from ZSN and all the other top hybrid models to next level.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 9, 2019)

CoiL said:


> O_o
> 
> I do not have ZS7 to compare but I certainly do not agree with points in bold.
> IT01 doesn`t have bass oomph? LOL Seems Your preference is in raised mid-bass and looser bass?
> ...



I am not saying it01 doesn't have bass oomph but compared to zs7 it does on that particular song. And what makes an IEM cost $100 can't be beat by cheaper one? Who put the price tag on it01 to be $99? I bet to produce it01, it won't cost near $99. And for high I meant to say cymbal sounds and No when listening to jazz I don't experienced overwhelming cymbal sounds with it01, but in that particular song it does more so than the zs7. I am not saying it01 is bad or anything. I am just making comparison on what I heard on that particular song. Do I notice those things when listening to it01 or zs7 alone, maybe not, but when you hear them side by side and loop the song over and over again, you will notice the difference. 
My source gear is my pc > schiit wyrd > schiit modi > cavalli liquid carbon v1.


----------



## maxxevv

voicemaster said:


> And what makes an IEM cost $100 can't be beat by cheaper one?



Agreed. But its dependent on context too. And in this case, you stated its relative to the song used. 

As for the price tag, well, the Shure SE215 doesn't sound as premium as its price tag suggests as compared to even a "lowly" , sub US$50/-  KZ AS10.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 9, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> And what makes an IEM cost $100 can't be beat by cheaper one?
> Who put the price tag on it01 to be $99? I bet to produce it01, it won't cost near $99.


Actually I`m wondering how they managed to produce it so cheap as making graphene isn`t cheap. High flux magnet coupled with helmholz resonator is not so cheap also. and then You add up high quality copper cable that let alone costs more than ZS7. Also shell build is excellent and all that package... how it all costs so little is rather my question.



voicemaster said:


> I am not saying it01 doesn't have bass oomph but compared to zs7 it does on* that particular song*.
> And *for high I meant to say cymbal sounds* and No when listening to jazz I don't experienced overwhelming cymbal sounds with it01, but *in that particular song it does more so* than the zs7. I am not saying it01 is bad or anything. I am just making comparison on what I heard *on that particular song.*


Well, then maybe the fault is rather in *not so good mastering*? 
I listen a lot of quality-mastered music (Steven Wilson for example) and never experienced any overwhelming cymbals. Rather opposite - never before I have experienced such dynamical natural sounding cymbals from IEM.

But hey! If more impressions chime in about ZS7 beating IT01 - I will buy ZS7 for sure, even more than 1 

Btw, asking again what tips did You use for both?


----------



## voicemaster

CoiL said:


> Actually I`m wondering how they managed to produce it so cheap as making graphene isn`t cheap. High flux magnet coupled with helmholz resonator is not so cheap also. and then You add up high quality copper cable that let alone costs more than ZS7. Also shell build is excellent and all that package... how it all costs so little is rather my question.
> 
> 
> Well, then maybe the fault is rather in *not so good mastering*?
> ...



newbee comply


----------



## CoiL

voicemaster said:


> newbee comply


Foam or foam covered with silicone?


----------



## voicemaster

Covered with silicone i believe.


----------



## CoiL

I meant like regular silicone tips but underneath is foam? Or maybe I`m mixing up with mandarin tips atm. 
Got any pic of tips?  
If You use foams with IT01 then I totally understand what You hear from IT01. IT01 requires wide-bore silicones to sound best (general consensus from owners not only me).


----------



## SybilLance

crabdog said:


> This has been done before, always with the same results (none). I'm not trying to discourage you - more data points are always useful. But I wouldn't expect to see any changes.





durwood said:


> Indeed, I had accepted a challenge to measure the ZSN out of the box and then at later intervals. While I waited for them to arrive I researched the best way to take such measurements. Tyll had a good article https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break-page-4
> 
> He thought IMD was where it would show up, I have no way to take such measurements, I only do it for comparison hobby sake. I have not seen anything that shows a change I only have a couple hours of break-in on it, it certainly does not show up in a frequency response graph. I thought I had captured something in regular distortion measurements until I realized it was the central heating system background noise that increased distortion <200hz. So my data shows nothing worth mentioning, I am not going to pursue trying to measure it at this point even with more break-in time. The cable between my purple and cyan ZSN does not affect anything in the measurements either, not that I am surprised by that. The only variation is mainly insertion depth, and you can't really compare much past 10khz since positional changes will cause even the same IEM to have different results. Disclaimer: My bias/opinions are that I think dynamic drivers can change slightly but it happens fairly quickly, and unless the cable is severely broken, it will not make a difference, and minor impedance changes are more likely a result of connection points and not the wire itself. An additional series resistance of 0.5ohms should not do much to a 16+ohm earphone. Not looking to start a discussion on cables, just making it clear where I have bias.
> 
> ...





durwood said:


> One more fun graph, switched to 1/3 smoothing because this is what our brain does and you can see how the peaks kind of melt away.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Thanks, durwood. Your results do buttress my perception of no audible differences among my replacement/upgrade cables, pitifully small in number as they are, versus stock KZ cables, in so far as fidelity of music reproduction is concerned. Of course aesthetics and ergonomics are the reasons why I replace/upgrade my cables. Curiosity is also a factor.


----------



## voicemaster

CoiL said:


> I meant like regular silicone tips but underneath is foam? Or maybe I`m mixing up with mandarin tips atm.
> Got any pic of tips?
> If You use foams with IT01 then I totally understand what You hear from IT01. IT01 requires wide-bore silicones to sound best (general consensus from owners not only me).




Similar to the foamies that came with it01.


----------



## CoiL

Get wide-bore tips like Auvio or Spiral Dot and You`ll get better results (assuming You can get good fit).


----------



## DynamicEars

CoiL said:


> Get wide-bore tips like Auvio or Spiral Dot and You`ll get better results (assuming You can get good fit).



Spiral Dots is the best for sound, again assuming you can get good fit as CoiL said


----------



## Nimweth

DocHoliday said:


> Same BA's different configuration.
> 
> Note the 1+1(50060 BA + 30095 BA) nozzle placement and the 1+1(50060 BA + 30095 BA) cavity placement on the C10 vs the quad-formation and placement on the ZS10.
> 
> ...


Thank you. It should be interesting to compare the two when they arrive.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Nimweth said:


> The ZS10 has a 10mm DD, 2x50060 BA and 2x30095 BA. Does anyone know the driver types in the CCA C10? Meanwhile I have fitted the foam tips from my Whizzer A15 pro to the ZS10 and an getting a much more balanced sound. There's still a little harshness in the treble but it is reduced.



C10 has #500060 + #30095 in the nozzle and again #500060 + #30095 inside body  And DD 10mm double magnet

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/AK-A...s-L-oreille-couteurs-HIFI-DJ/32962311073.html


----------



## Nimweth

OTE="jeromeaparis, post: 14707292, member: 49422"]C10 has #500060 + #30095 in the nozzle and again #500060 + #30095 inside body  And DD 10mm double magnet

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/AK-A...s-L-oreille-couteurs-HIFI-DJ/32962311073.html[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I believe that the diaphragm is titanium, is that right?


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> IT01 requires wide-bore silicones to sound best (general consensus from owners not only me).



I use the medium wide bore silicone tips that were already installed on my IT01 when it arrived.


----------



## BoZ29

voicemaster said:


> I tried this and her voice is not harsh at all. Nice song btw.



Thanks! This song may not be everyones favorite, but it has some nice characteristics to test earphones. The short guitar notes, heavy bass and high voices, combined with synths. This should make a heavenly mix to hear al the notes with airy seperation of the instruments.


----------



## darmanastartes

crabdog said:


> This has been done before, always with the same results (none). I'm not trying to discourage you - more data points are always useful. But I wouldn't expect to see any changes.


Yeah, I didn't expect to observe measurable differences in frequency response. It might be worth doing in the event that I start hearing things differently over the course of my time with the C10, just to confirm to myself that it's just my brain getting used to a new IEM.


----------



## voicemaster

CoiL said:


> Get wide-bore tips like Auvio or Spiral Dot and You`ll get better results (assuming You can get good fit).



I can't use silicone tips for long period of time like I used to. Once you go comply you can't go back


----------



## Podster

DynamicEars said:


> Spiral Dots is the best for sound, again assuming you can get good fit as CoiL said



I agree with Coil on these two tips however the Auvio's are my go to tips because they have saved more of my iem's from being immediately 86'd OOTB than any other tips I've used including Dots! Unfortunately for me and unlike @voicemaster I've never found one comply in all my years of portable that I liked To each their own I might add!

@BoZ29 , great song and I just love her voice THX for posting

@DocHoliday is that blue one a ZS7? I've not ever seen a Blue ZS6 but that shell appears to be one


----------



## BrunoC (Jan 9, 2019)

CCA C16 is available to order on Aliexpress:

€ 123

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...arphone-Headset-With/1825606_32967874352.html
I bet @1clearhead is gonna buy it!


----------



## rayliam80 (Jan 9, 2019)

BrunoC said:


> CCA C16 is available to order on Aliexpress:
> 
> € 123
> 
> ...



$139 USD is a little more than I expected.


----------



## nzhoward

Anyone else have a problem with the comfort of KZ IEMs? I have both the ZST and ZS6 with comply foam tips. Both hurt my ears after like 30 minutes of use. I do not experience this at all with my Shures and fiio FH5.


----------



## Podster

BrunoC said:


> CCA C16 is available to order on Aliexpress:
> 
> € 123
> 
> ...



So is CCA a subsidiary of KZ? Just wondering here in the old KZ thread as well as at $139 are we still talking budget Chi-FI IMHO once you have exceeded the $40 max tag you are no longer talking budget Chi-Fi iem's


----------



## mbwilson111

voicemaster said:


> I can't use silicone tips for long period of time like I used to. Once you go comply you can't go back



Not true for everyone... nothing in this game is.   I tried them and found them to be horrible for me.   Silicone all the way for me... some are more comfy than others...


----------



## Luxed

nzhoward said:


> Anyone else have a problem with the comfort of KZ IEMs? I have both the ZST and ZS6 with comply foam tips. Both hurt my ears after like 30 minutes of use. I do not experience this at all with my Shures and fiio FH5.


Nope, not me at least. Actually it is the opposite: my Shure SE215 hurts my ears after 1h, but I can wear my ZST all day and have no issue (with foam tips). I can't wear my AS10 all day without having at least a little discomfort but it's not as bad as the Shure.


mbwilson111 said:


> Not true for everyone... nothing in this game is.   I tried them and found them to be horrible for me.   Silicone all the way for me... some are more comfy than others...


True, I see a lot of people preferring to use silicone for comfort and sound which sounded weird to me because I haven't tried a pair of silicone tips that don't cause a suction effect and don't feel comfortable. But now I realize that there is more because I got a pair of round (sports fit, slow rise. These: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bID56oeU) and I can't use them with my AS10 because the comfort is worse than with silicone. All foam aren't the same either, just like with silicone.
Tip rolling seems to be a fun thing to do when you're bored


----------



## mbwilson111

Luxed said:


> Tip rolling seems to be a fun thing to do when you're bored



It is not fun and I am never bored.  Actually if I have to try several my ears become sore from taking them in and out.

For those who do not care about isolation, buds are more comfortable in general and can sound really great.


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jan 9, 2019)

nzhoward said:


> Anyone else have a problem with the comfort of KZ IEMs? I have both the ZST and ZS6 with comply foam tips. Both hurt my ears after like 30 minutes of use. I do not experience this at all with my Shures and fiio FH5.



I have. Foam gets uncomfortable. I can wear Shure and FH5 all day long no problem. Not ZS6. Most comfortable tips I've found for ZS6 are the Spinfit CP145, no problem wearing them a full day. Just be carefull, you'll have to master the art of extracting the tip out with the headphone jack from your ear cause those bastards will come off occasionally. The CP100 are tighter and don't slide, a lot more comfortable than Comply but not as comfortable as CP145 for me. Your ears might be diffrent and have better luck with CP100. I use small.


----------



## 1clearhead

BrunoC said:


> CCA C16 is available to order on Aliexpress:
> 
> € 123
> 
> ...


 No money...for now!


----------



## CoiL

BrunoC said:


> CCA C16 is available to order on Aliexpress:
> 
> *€ 123*
> 
> ...



This has to be REALLY FRIGGIN GREAT IEM cuz I can`t see any reason why I wouldn`t pick IT01S or Kanas Pro over it! ...CCA is reaching clients too money-taking way. They have to prove themselves and their products before.


----------



## BrunoC

CoiL said:


> This has to be REALLY FRIGGIN GREAT IEM cuz I can`t see any reason why I wouldn`t pick IT01S or Kanas Pro over it! ...CCA is reaching clients too money-taking way. They have to prove themselves and their products before.



Absolutely!

This is no more budget territory. Maybe it's fantastic, but it seems to be a rushed release. CCA is very recent, at least to me with the C10, never heard of them before...


----------



## eclein

1clearhead said:


> No money...for now!



Same here, does the price surprise you clear??


----------



## border66

Testing Kz-Zsn with different setups, so far so good


----------



## Podster

border66 said:


> Testing Kz-Zsn with different setups, so far so good



I could not imagine how it could even remotely sound bad on that first one


----------



## kookaudio

border66 said:


> Testing Kz-Zsn with different setups, so far so good


What is the Fiio thing with the iPad...?


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jan 9, 2019)

Just had an interesting conversation with the owner of LuckLZ Audio Store on Ali.
He's got a much better price on the C16 (USD 119,00) and he gives discounts for his Twitter followers. But when I told him it's still a little steep for an unknown product, he said he'll report it to CCA, so they lower the prices of C16.

*Edit:* Just checked his prices. It's also USD 139,00. He must've meant the price he gets from CCA. Sorry for the confusion. Still, the discounts on Twitter are real, and who knows? Maybe they'll actually get CCA to lower the prices.


----------



## 1clearhead

eclein said:


> Same here, does the price surprise you clear??


Not really, but my wife will kill me if family don't come first...


----------



## maxxevv (Jan 9, 2019)

SiggyFraud said:


> Just had an interesting conversation with the owner of LuckLZ Audio Store on Ali.
> He's got a much better price on the C16 (USD 119,00) and he gives discounts for his Twitter followers. But when I told him it's still a little steep for an unknown product, he said he'll report it to CCA, so they lower the prices of C16.
> 
> *Edit:* Just checked his prices. It's also USD 139,00. He must've meant the price he gets from CCA. Sorry for the confusion. Still, the discounts on Twitter are real, and who knows? Maybe they'll actually get CCA to lower the prices.




From what I have seen on the forums here, if it drops to below the US$100/- mark, the crowds will start streaming in to give such stuff a shot. 

It was similar with what happened with the BGVP DMG. Lots of people were sitting on the fence at its RRP of about US$139/-.  You started to see more people getting it and leaving impressions after sales discounts dropped the price to just around the US$100/- mark.

CCA would do well, if they have absolute faith in the quality of their product,  to do an early-bird/ introductory / pre-order price at around that marker to get it to the early adopters and then revert to RRP upon general release instead.


----------



## drey101

Just curious, but is there any other 16 all ba driver (8 on each side) iem that's below the $100?


----------



## maxxevv (Jan 9, 2019)

drey101 said:


> Just curious, but is there any other 16 all ba driver (8 on each side) iem that's below the $100?



Its not about the driver count here, its about the price elasticity of a relatively unknown / untested product that seems to promising. 

It was the same thing with the BGVP DMG.  There were no 6-driver IEMS near that price point when it was launched either. Though there was plenty of buzz on the forums, loads of people seemed to have held back and waited to see "who blinked first" and waited for the first impressions or wider feedback across the interweb forums. But all that evaporated with the Aliexpress sales that came along and when the price did drop to below the US$100/- range during the November 11 sales.

Then you started to see the impressions coming in after that.

If this was done at a pre-launch price of say US$75-80, with a RRP of say US$125, I can assure you, loads of people would have jumped in just for the kicks of trying something new. I would probably have jumped in too!  


As it is now, I'll only wait for further and wider field feedback on it and see what kind of price discounts I can get from the March sales on Aliexpress.


----------



## drey101

maxxevv said:


> Its not about the driver count here, its about the price elasticity of a relatively unknown / untested product that seems to promising.
> 
> It was the same thing with the BGVP DMG.  There were no 6-driver IEMS near that price point when it was launched either. Though there was plenty of buzz on the forums, loads of people seemed to have held back and waited to see "who blinked first" and waited for the first impressions or wider feedback across the interweb forums. But all that evaporated with the Aliexpress sales that came along and when the price did drop to below the US$100/- range during the November 11 sales.
> 
> ...



Sorry if my post seemed quite hostile in light of your post, but I'm legitimately curious about my question... is there any other iem that offers an 8 BA driver iem at around the same price?

I'm not even sure if there is a 6 all ba driver iem that is found at around the same price range as most of what I've seen so far are 6 driver hybrid iems...

PS I agree that a cheaper price would be better, as I'm one of those who bought the BGVP DMG when I saw it dipped to $100 and I couldn't be any happier (except maybe if the supposedly extremely similar NiceHCK M6 was released earlier and available locally with it's $80+ price).


----------



## voicemaster

drey101 said:


> Sorry if my post seemed quite hostile in light of your post, but I'm legitimately curious about my question... is there any other iem that offers an 8 BA driver iem at around the same price?
> 
> I'm not even sure if there is a 6 all ba driver iem that is found at around the same price range as most of what I've seen so far are 6 driver hybrid iems...
> 
> PS I agree that a cheaper price would be better, as I'm one of those who bought the BGVP DMG when I saw it dipped to $100 and I couldn't be any happier (except maybe if the supposedly extremely similar NiceHCK M6 was released earlier and available locally with it's $80+ price).



I haven't seen an 8 BA drivers iem around that price. Most are either 5 BA and 4+1 hybrid.


----------



## maxxevv (Jan 10, 2019)

Oh .. no offence taken at all. 

Was just answering your question.

"Cheapest" 8-BA IEM I can find on Aliexpress is the HQ8 at US$255/- 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vol...lgo_pvid=3c450cf4-847f-44f2-8db3-f9c6a30a53eb

Part of the premium being the build quality and cabling options. 

There are some 7-BA / Driver ones that drop close to the US$160/- mark.


----------



## drey101

@voicemaster Yeah, most of the more famous ones tend to be 5 bas and/or hybrids. I did find the NiceHCK DT600 with 6 BAs as the closest one.

@maxxevv Ohh, cool find! Hopefully this CCA model will push the others to also create one at a lower price... or you know, hopefully KZ themselves (who seem to be directly affiliated with CCA) get the tech used in the CCA C16, and release it at a cheaper price.


----------



## Slater

Don’t forget that dynamics are still perfectly valid. A good dynamic can hang just as easily with multiple-BA IEMs. Unless of course you’re just looking for bragging rights between your friends (my 16 BA earphone is better than your 4 BA earphone).


----------



## voicemaster

I want 8 DD iem xD


----------



## drey101 (Jan 10, 2019)

@Slater Haha, yupz! I actually have a single dd incoming that I am extremely excited about that cost a little bit more than the CCA C16. I winced when I paid for it as there hadn't been much impressions on it yet, but shipping is taking so long to take to me that there are now quite a bit of impressions coming out and they all seem to be quite reassuring. I probably won't buy anything else in the near future, but haha, I also wanna experience an all BA driver around the same price range, and if the CCA C16 is pushing the boundaries in both price, quality, tech (be it by simply adding more BAs, or by using some new technology), then more power to them as that will mean more quality choices in the future.


----------



## stmiller

Kansas pro


----------



## stmiller

I've been listening to the iem sound comparisons on hbb's channel. 

My preferred sound signature is the first part of the lza6 v pmv.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Miss audio begin to communicate on the newest CCA 16
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bCMaxlkz
It will be available soon . 
They seem hope by CCA and this model.  Don't know why but I'm curious


----------



## Leo-rume

Luckylz store on twitter some minutes ago. I just checked its currently priced at 111$ on their store. I think with a little patience, the price is going to drop to that 100$ ish range. I definitely can't afford this, posting for the interested ones


----------



## SiggyFraud

SiggyFraud said:


> Just had an interesting conversation with the owner of LuckLZ Audio Store on Ali.
> He's got a much better price on the C16 (USD 119,00) and he gives discounts for his Twitter followers. But when I told him it's still a little steep for an unknown product, he said he'll report it to CCA, so they lower the prices of C16.
> 
> *Edit:* Just checked his prices. It's also USD 139,00. He must've meant the price he gets from CCA. Sorry for the confusion. Still, the discounts on Twitter are real, and who knows? Maybe they'll actually get CCA to lower the prices.



A little follow-up
I was just contacted by the owner of the LuckLZ Audio Store. He's got a special deal on CCA C16 for Head-Fi members - USD 97,00 for the non-mic version, and USD 98,00 for the mic version. The store also offers a Seller Discount of 4,00 USD an orders above USD 90,00, which gives us *USD 93,00* for the non-mic version and *USD 94,00* for the mic version.
The drill is as usual - use the code "*head-fi*" while making a purchase, cancel payment, wait for price adjustment, finish transaction. And don't forget about the Seller Discount.
Any takers?


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jan 10, 2019)

Leo-rume said:


> Luckylz store on twitter some minutes ago. I just checked its currently priced at 111$ on their store. I think with a little patience, the price is going to drop to that 100$ ish range. I definitely can't afford this, posting for the interested ones





SiggyFraud said:


> A little follow-up
> I was just contacted by the owner of the LuckLZ Audio Store. He's got a special deal on CCA C16 for Head-Fi members - USD 97,00 for the non-mic version, and USD 98,00 for the mic version. The store also offers a Seller Discount of 4,00 USD an orders above USD 90,00, which gives us *USD 93,00* for the non-mic version and *USD 94,00* for the mic version.
> The drill is as usual - use the code "*head-fi*" while making a purchase, cancel payment, wait for price adjustment, finish transaction. And don't forget about the Seller Discount.
> Any takers?



Not so special, I guess Still, it's good to know they're actually reducing the prices.


----------



## gazzington

Using some zst this morning. Forgot how nice they sound


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Don’t forget that dynamics are still perfectly valid.* A good dynamic can hang just as easily with multiple-BA IEMs.* Unless of course you’re just looking for bragging rights between your friends (my 16 BA earphone is better than your 4 BA earphone).


Not just hang - beat them!  it`s all about coherency, dynamic & natural sound, along with load of details and accuracy.

I decided to REALLY ditch any further buying of KZs (even ZS7) or CCA and go with Kanas Pro ;P


----------



## BadReligionPunk

My purchase before the C10 was a single dynamic(semkarch CNT1) and my next 2 purchases planned are both single dynamics(ex800st and Kanas Pro). 
Sometimes its just good to live the simple life. 

Looking forward to c16 reviews though. 16 drivers at $100 is really rather cheap.


----------



## EDG67

Are the KZ ZSN good for rock and metal?, ordered them last night and should be here tomorrow.Have the ed16 and find them just ok, hoping the zsn will be better.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Don’t forget that dynamics are still perfectly valid. A good dynamic can hang just as easily with multiple-BA IEMs. Unless of course you’re just looking for bragging rights between your friends (my 16 BA earphone is better than your 4 BA earphone).


i agree with slater, which is generally good practice. the notion that more drivers is inherently better just doesn't hold up in real-world listening, esp. in the budget space. a number of my >$100 favorites like the simgot, it01 and se-ch9t are single dynamics; i also still listen to my ancient single BA mee a161p as much as anything i own.


----------



## stmiller

EDG67 said:


> Are the KZ ZSN good for rock and metal?, ordered them last night and should be here tomorrow.Have the ed16 and find them just ok, hoping the zsn will be better.


It's got a foward presentation, so loud volumes may be intolerable


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> Don’t forget that dynamics are still perfectly valid. A good dynamic can hang just as easily with multiple-BA IEMs. Unless of course you’re just looking for bragging rights between your friends (my 16 BA earphone is better than your 4 BA earphone).


I agree with that. My current favourite is a single DD with dual diaphragm (banned, unfortunately!)


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Not just hang - beat them!  it`s all about coherency, dynamic & natural sound, along with load of details and accuracy.
> 
> I decided to REALLY ditch any further buying of KZs (even ZS7) or CCA and go with Kanas Pro ;P



Ditto, not only just a DD but this micro driver right here can not only hang but exceed all my multi BA's 




 

And as to not upset the (Banana) KZ Boat I'll add this is not shabby by a long shot


----------



## TechnoidFR

gazzington said:


> Using some zst this morning. Forgot how nice they sound



Go zsn


----------



## Podster

gazzington said:


> Using some zst this morning. Forgot how nice they sound



Hmm, you did say ZST right? Technoid me as the "N" is a good jump on the keyboard from the "T"


----------



## neo_styles

Wow it's been a while for me. Still rocking the AS10 and the ED16 creeps in from time-to-time for a little change of fun and flavor. Had to toss the ZS6 since they were legitimately shocking me. Something weird was going on with that pair and it was pulling current around the shell.

Three months after I thought they'd never arrive, both pairs of the TRN BT10 (1 in MMCX, 1 in 0.75mm) showed up last week. Combined with the AS10, things work really well, though I do feel like there's less length in the cord on each side and I do get a little tugging when I wear collared shirts. Minor quib, though, and my current sweet-spot seems to be the AS10 with Auvio tips and the BT10.

But I did manage to just order a pair of ZSN based on the feedback here (purple/silver from KZ's official store) and am pretty excited to get them on, especially based on the feedback I continue to see here. I'm hoping they're as comfy in my ears as they seem to be in most of yours.


----------



## AncientSw0rd (Jan 10, 2019)

Ok, been reading too much in this thread.

I just bought zs10, zs07, it01 and it01s.

A couple of them will be here today. Gotta love Amazon. Have to wait on the it01s though.

Looking forward to my own personal showdown.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> i agree with slater, which is generally good practice. the notion that more drivers is inherently better just doesn't hold up in real-world listening, esp. in the budget space. a number of my >$100 favorites like the simgot, it01 and se-ch9t are single dynamics; i also still listen to my ancient single BA mee a161p as much as anything i own.



I love the CH9T!

And who can forget the TinAudio T2? Nothing can touch it when you get during Aliexpress sales ~$30.


----------



## Slater (Jan 10, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> Wow it's been a while for me. Still rocking the AS10 and the ED16 creeps in from time-to-time for a little change of fun and flavor. Had to toss the ZS6 since they were legitimately shocking me. Something weird was going on with that pair and it was pulling current around the shell.
> 
> Three months after I thought they'd never arrive, both pairs of the TRN BT10 (1 in MMCX, 1 in 0.75mm) showed up last week. Combined with the AS10, things work really well, though I do feel like there's less length in the cord on each side and I do get a little tugging when I wear collared shirts. Minor quib, though, and my current sweet-spot seems to be the AS10 with Auvio tips and the BT10.
> 
> But I did manage to just order a pair of ZSN based on the feedback here (purple/silver from KZ's official store) and am pretty excited to get them on, especially based on the feedback I continue to see here. I'm hoping they're as comfy in my ears as they seem to be in most of yours.



Yo Neo, the BT20 dominates the BT3 and BT10.

Seriously, since I got the BT20 I have not used the BT3 or BT10 even one single time. The freedom of totally wireless, the long battery life, the really long range. The background is much darker than the BT3 and BT10 too (ie no white noise background sound perceivable).

To quote EMF, they're UNBELIEVABLE


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Yo Neo, the BT20 dominates the BT3 and BT10. Seriously, since I got the BT20 I have not used the BT3 or BT10 even one single time. The freedom of totally wireless, the long battery life, the really long range. The background is much darker than the BT3 and BT10 too (ie no white noise background sound perceivable).
> 
> To quote EMF, they're UNBELIEVABLE


Lol I might pick up a pair after payday. Having waited as long as I did for these BT10, might as well give them some use.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Lol I might pick up a pair after payday. Having waited as long as I did for these BT10, might as well give them some use.



Make sure you check the phase (link in my signature).

Many of the BT10 are wired out of phase. To correct it, you have to open up 1 of the control pods and resolder the wires. It's not hard to do, but it is annoying as it was easily preventable at the factory.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Make sure you check the phase (link in my signature).
> 
> Many of the BT10 are wired out of phase. To correct it, you have to open up 1 of the control pods and resolder the wires. It's not hard to do, but it is annoying as it was easily preventable at the factory.


No phase issues here on the 0.75mm one. Guess I got lucky. I'll check the MMCX tonight.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Yo Neo, the BT20 dominates the BT3 and BT10.
> 
> Seriously, since I got the BT20 I have not used the BT3 or BT10 even one single time. The freedom of totally wireless, the long battery life, the really long range. The background is much darker than the BT3 and BT10 too (ie no white noise background sound perceivable).
> 
> To quote EMF, they're UNBELIEVABLE



Two cons that I found from bt20. One is minor and the other is quite major. The minor con is when using bt20 with zs7 or zs6 because the body of zs6/7 that is edgy making the edgy part of zs6/7 to pinch into my ear. This is only happen to iem that have edgy design like zs6/7 tho. 
Now, the major problem is that the charging jack can move inside if you happened to plug the micro usb cable roughly. Did happen to mine and this also affect the button to be unpressable. I fix mine by using a plier and pull the charging enclosure out back to its place, but this is a pretty poor design for charging mechanism imho. Still love mine tho.


----------



## jeffhawke

SiggyFraud said:


> Just had an interesting conversation with the owner of LuckLZ Audio Store on Ali.
> He's got a much better price on the C16 (USD 119,00) and he gives discounts for his Twitter followers. But when I told him it's still a little steep for an unknown product, he said he'll report it to CCA, so they lower the prices of C16.
> 
> *Edit:* Just checked his prices. It's also USD 139,00. He must've meant the price he gets from CCA. Sorry for the confusion. Still, the discounts on Twitter are real, and who knows? Maybe they'll actually get CCA to lower the prices.


There is a promotion link on these on FB, for less than $100. I pulled the trigger, WTH...


----------



## Wiljen

Guess what I got today?   it looks like this:

 

and sounds like this:



love the difference in that treble spike from Zs5 and Zs6.  Way better on Zs7.  Way to go KZ!


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Two cons that I found from bt20. One is minor and the other is quite major. The minor con is when using bt20 with zs7 or zs6 because the body of zs6/7 that is edgy making the edgy part of zs6/7 to pinch into my ear. This is only happen to iem that have edgy design like zs6/7 tho.
> Now, the major problem is that the charging jack can move inside if you happened to plug the micro usb cable roughly. Did happen to mine and this also affect the button to be unpressable. I fix mine by using a plier and pull the charging enclosure out back to its place, but this is a pretty poor design for charging mechanism imho. Still love mine tho.



Thanks for the heads up. I will be aware of that.

I may even pop mine open and reinforce the jack area with epoxy.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> Guess what I got today?   it looks like this:
> 
> 
> and sounds like this:
> ...



So from the graph it seems:

1. ZS7 and ZS5v1 sound near identical >1.8kHz
2. ZS7 appears to be more v shaped than the ZS6

Would you say that's accurate?


----------



## AncientSw0rd (Jan 10, 2019)

I just got a set of ZS07 in. Honestly pretty impressed so far for what these cost. Haven't listened too long yet.

Last pair of KZ I bought were the ZS3, quite a while ago.  These are a big step up from that.


----------



## DynamicEars

Wiljen said:


> and sounds like this:



WOW!! they are closer to harman target now, and they really fixed that usual harsh peak at 2.5-3khz, treble looks sweet.

How the sub bass compared to ZSN? and the soundstage? is this the widest soundstage KZ has ever made? or still lose to zs6?


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 10, 2019)

EDG67 said:


> Are the KZ ZSN good for rock and metal?, ordered them last night and should be here tomorrow.Have the ed16 and find them just ok, hoping the zsn will be better.





stmiller said:


> It's got a foward presentation, so loud volumes may be intolerable



Both the ZSN and ED16 are among those in-ears in KZ's line-up that have a relatively balanced sound, i.e., the midrange is not as recessed-sounding compared to the rest of the audible frequency range. Aside from that similar trait, the ZSN is easily driven thus plays louder and also sounds brighter than the ED16. From the mid- to upper mids upwards the ZSN presents instruments such that they are perceived with more proximity. So yes, some may find the ZSN too strident when listening to rock or metal at loud volumes.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> WOW!! they are closer to harman target now, and they really fixed that usual harsh peak at 2.5-3khz, treble looks sweet.
> 
> How the sub bass compared to ZSN? and the soundstage? is this the widest soundstage KZ has ever made? or still lose to zs6?



It has a different kind of bass than ZSN imho. It sounds tighter, but not overly tight. For soundstage, I say it is about the same as ZS6, but because the mid is alot more forward, it makes it sound less spacious?


----------



## voicemaster

Is it okay to sand out the edgy part of zs7?
This is where I want to sand off.


----------



## HungryPanda

If it will make it more comfortable sand away


----------



## voicemaster

HungryPanda said:


> If it will make it more comfortable sand away



It will definitely make it more comfortable when using the zs7 with trn bt20. Using trn bt3 or wired doesn't exhibit this situation.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Is it okay to sand out the edgy part of zs7?
> This is where I want to sand off.



Sure, sand away.

Here's some ZS5 others have sanded down (and repainted). The ZS6 is no different. Just be aware that the bare aluminum (silver) will show through wherever you sand. But that's just common sense.


----------



## voicemaster

Do I need to coat the bare aluminum or I can just leave it as is?


----------



## Slater (Jan 11, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Do I need to coat the bare aluminum or I can just leave it as is?



*Short answer:*
You can leave it as is. It will be fine.

*Long answer:*
Technically, aluminum _oxidizes_ and does not rust. If you left the IEMs outside in the weather elements for 6-24 months (or exposed it to a salt spray), bare aluminum would oxidize with a whitish surface finish (aluminum oxide). Technically, the oxide layer that forms on aluminum is actually *protective*! But regardless, with it being an IEM, kept indoors, etc there is no problem at all just leaving it as-is and a noticeable oxide layer will likely never even form simply due to the oils from your skin from handling the IEM. Maybe if you wore it surfing in the ocean every day I would protect the bare aluminum with clear acrylic nail polish top coat. But if you surfed in the ocean every day, your ZS6 would be damaged long before the finish oxidized!


----------



## Mdclol

I caved and got the KZ ZS7s on Amazon shipped same-day @ $50. For the price, these are an unbeatable set of IEMs and a sure recommendation to loved ones and acquaintances. 

Sounding similar to my FLC8S (maybe 90% as good) with the added bonus of looking cooler and pricier despite costing 1/6th as much. The blue looks so much better in person than the online pictures would suggest. My wife was certain these were more than $200USD. Heck, even the cable looks rather premium with it's braiding and smoothly-textured, oh-so-satisfying-to-touch Y-splitter.

Pros
Relatively inexpensive
No driver flex
Negligible to no sibilance, while retaining sparkle and air
Bass is tight and punchy, going down to 30hz w/ authority (Wub wub, anyone?)
Mids are just right for me, forward and clear (KZ calls the mids 'plump' in their ads) 
Tonality is good, esp. with stringed instruments
Aesthetically pleasing IEM design+color

Cons
Can't fall asleep with these `
Uncomfortable due to size and sharp edges

The most mind-blowing aspect about these to me is the fact that they make me question all the marketing mumbo-jumbo even Chi-Fi companies are spouting. I love the FLC8S. Not just for the filters, but because apparently there was a lot of thought put into it from a passionate person. I recall something about the high's BA driver being wired in reverse polarity, and thus out of phase, to better compliment the sound being channeled in by the DD. Well, in terms of sound _enjoyment, _these $50USD KZ ZS7's come pretty darn close. 

The folks at Kwowledge Zenith surely intrigue me. They're pooping stuff out left and right, only.. it's not poop, it's wonderful, cheap, aural pleasure!


----------



## Luxed

The zs7 sure looks interesting, but it's been out for a while now and it's still not available on the official store?
I'm interested in a lot of ChiFi IEMs, but the zs7 is on the top of my list. I just find it weird that we don't see kz sell it yet. Anyone knows why they would do that?


----------



## DynamicEars

Anyone who owns zs7 together with BqEYZ? Like to hear some comments between them since I found my BQEYZ kb100 is great in tuning and soundstage and i found it as better than mostly KZs (up to ZSN) since i stopped buying KZ until ZSN.


----------



## BoZ29

My KZ zs7 is in the plane now heading for Europe. Probably a week or so before it will arrive here. As I see the posts of first experience with zs7 coming, I think I made the right choice to order them. Are the outer scales with vent holes interchangeable with zs6?


----------



## SybilLance

Mdclol said:


> ...
> The folks at Knowledge Zenith surely intrigue me. They're pooping stuff out left and right, only.. it's not poop, it's wonderful, cheap, aural pleasure!


Right on the money, even if it's just $10 or so (for what I paid, below).

Musing out loud...

If I have more money (so much more—money to burn) than good sense I might buy something like this:







If my good sense were a tad better but still have that money to burn, I'd probably go buy this:






But I don't have money (or maybe I'm such a tightwad despite the good sense I like to think I have) so I ended up with this:





And what wonderful, cheap, aural pleasure it is!

As we would shout during one of the most fun and colorful of our local festivals... *Hala Bira!*


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Lol. Headfi is dead. People would rather listen to their new earphones than talk about them.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 11, 2019)

Wiljen said:


>


Dammit... that graph actually looks pretty OK. But I promised I won`t buy any more KZ`s and get Moondrop Kanas Pro -.-

Wiljen, can You make graph about ZS5v1 vs. IT01 vs. ZS7 ?


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Dammit... that graph actually looks pretty OK. But I promised I won`t buy any more KZ`s and get Moondrop Kanas Pro -.-
> 
> Wiljen, can You make graph about ZS5v1 vs. IT01 vs. ZS7 ?




The Zs7 is a good one.  I'll have to get the IT01 back from my daughter when she comes in from school, then I can.  The other two I have but my IT01 went walk about.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> So from the graph it seems:
> 
> 1. ZS7 and ZS5v1 sound near identical >1.8kHz
> 2. ZS7 appears to be more v shaped than the ZS6
> ...



Let me listen a bit more and I'll write some notes tonight.  Don't want to get ahead of myself.


----------



## CoiL

Wiljen said:


> The Zs7 is a good one.  I'll have to get the IT01 back from my daughter when she comes in from school, then I can.  The other two I have but my IT01 went walk about.


Thanks! Waiting for it.


----------



## AncientSw0rd

Mdclol said:


> I caved and got the KZ ZS7s on Amazon shipped same-day @ $50. For the price, these are an unbeatable set of IEMs and a sure recommendation to loved ones and acquaintances.
> 
> Sounding similar to my FLC8S (maybe 90% as good) with the added bonus of looking cooler and pricier despite costing 1/6th as much. The blue looks so much better in person than the online pictures would suggest. My wife was certain these were more than $200USD. Heck, even the cable looks rather premium with it's braiding and smoothly-textured, oh-so-satisfying-to-touch Y-splitter.
> 
> ...



I have to agree. These sound very good.

I would not have been upset if I paid twice as much for them, although I think at $50 they are a bargain. I probably wouldn't have tried them if they weren't so inexpensive.

Wouldn't hesitate to recommend these to friends or family either. Well worth the cost IMO, if they have ears big enough to fit the shells. I have no problems with them, but I never had issues with my CA Nova shells either when I had them.


----------



## Podster

Mdclol said:


> I caved and got the KZ ZS7s on Amazon shipped same-day @ $50. For the price, these are an unbeatable set of IEMs and a sure recommendation to loved ones and acquaintances.
> 
> Sounding similar to my FLC8S (maybe 90% as good) with the added bonus of looking cooler and pricier despite costing 1/6th as much. The blue looks so much better in person than the online pictures would suggest. My wife was certain these were more than $200USD. Heck, even the cable looks rather premium with it's braiding and smoothly-textured, oh-so-satisfying-to-touch Y-splitter.
> 
> ...



Man, I was just thinking about getting the ZS7's only because I don't have a Blue ZS6 but now you are saying the ZS7 is 90% of my FLC8S Well for 7 times less I guess I'll check that statement out but find it extremely hard to believe especially when you have 36 options to get it almost pinpoint to ones personal taste!


----------



## DynamicEars

CoiL said:


> Dammit... that graph actually looks pretty OK. But I promised I won`t buy any more KZ`s and get Moondrop Kanas Pro -.-



100% same situation here


----------



## Wiljen

Mdclol said:


> I caved and got the KZ ZS7s on Amazon shipped same-day @ $50. For the price, these are an unbeatable set of IEMs and a sure recommendation to loved ones and acquaintances.
> 
> Sounding similar to my FLC8S (maybe 90% as good) with the added bonus of looking cooler and pricier despite costing 1/6th as much. The blue looks so much better in person than the online pictures would suggest. My wife was certain these were more than $200USD. Heck, even the cable looks rather premium with it's braiding and smoothly-textured, oh-so-satisfying-to-touch Y-splitter.
> 
> ...




I tend to agree with most of your evaluation but the "No driver flex" is not true for my set. If I don't open my mouth to equalize pressure when inserting both sides have very audible driver flex.  That part I have to call out as it may be true for some but certainly not universally.


----------



## Podster

Wiljen said:


> I tend to agree with most of your evaluation but the "No driver flex" is not true for my set. If I don't open my mouth to equalize pressure when inserting both sides have very audible driver flex.  That part I have to call out as it may be true for some but certainly not universally.



Agreed and fortunately it has never caused any damage I'm ware of but it has been inherent in I'd say 50% of my KZ iem's, on the bright side it's always a positive indicator one is for sure getting a good seal


----------



## DynamicEars

Wiljen said:


> I tend to agree with most of your evaluation but the "No driver flex" is not true for my set. If I don't open my mouth to equalize pressure when inserting both sides have very audible driver flex.  That part I have to call out as it may be true for some but certainly not universally.



It happens a lot with many DD / multi driver with DD iems though.

btw, sharing my eartips trick for JVC spiral dots memory foam hybrid https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/page-27#post-14699402


----------



## 1clearhead

Luxed said:


> The zs7 sure looks interesting, but it's been out for a while now and it's still not available on the official store?
> I'm interested in a lot of ChiFi IEMs, but the zs7 is on the top of my list. I just find it weird that we don't see kz sell it yet. Anyone knows why they would do that?


+1 ...I'm wondering the same thing!


----------



## Zerohour88

Luxed said:


> The zs7 sure looks interesting, but it's been out for a while now and it's still not available on the official store?
> I'm interested in a lot of ChiFi IEMs, but the zs7 is on the top of my list. I just find it weird that we don't see kz sell it yet. Anyone knows why they would do that?



I've been saying from the start that it looks a lot like the ZSR/ED16 situation, where it seems that KZ just sort-of ignored the release. Never got any concrete info on that, only speculations like "limited release of rejected model" or "rogue KZ factory releasing models". Considering how IP is treated there, won't really be a surprise either way.

the "its preorder for specific shop" doesn't really fly anymore since KZ haven't done any of the sorts since the ZS3, I think?


----------



## TechnoidFR

ZS7 in my ears !!!
First impression
No sibilance or harsh
Lot of sub bass
Really clear sound for the moment. Great first impression


----------



## DynamicEars

TechnoidFR said:


> ZS7 in my ears !!!
> First impression
> No sibilance or harsh
> Lot of sub bass
> Really clear sound for the moment. Great first impression



You got BQEYZ KC2, how ZS7 compared to them?


----------



## CoiL

TechnoidFR said:


> ZS7 in my ears !!!
> First impression
> No sibilance or harsh
> *Lot of sub bass*
> Really clear sound for the moment. Great first impression


That point is little turn-off. But I wonder is it tight and punchy with rumble/micro-details... or rather typical KZ bass quality (best bass quality to me from KZ is ZS4 and ZS5v1amped)?


----------



## TechnoidFR (Jan 11, 2019)

[QUOTE = "DynamicEars, post: 14712012, membre: 507080"] Vous avez BQEYZ KC2, comment comparer ZS7 à eux? [/ QUOTE]

This night i'll compare !
But kc2 seems more neutral

[QUOTE = "CoiL, post: 14712041, member: 356211"] Ce point est un peu détourné. Mais je me demande si elle est étroite et percutante avec des rumeurs / micro-détails ... ou plutôt une qualité de basse KZ typique (la meilleure qualité de basse pour moi de KZ est ZS4 et ZS5v1amped)? [/ QUOTE]

Edit : ( ****in Google translate after that I have all writing for nothing...

The DD seems to be same than the ZS10. So the bass is very powerful, very present, great extension and detail ! **** said to me that is the same but few persons here said to me too that **** is not reliable. But this time it seems real. The bass is very controlled and male voice are perfectly clear and understanding. Medium and treble seems i to kc2


For the moment I like this tuning
The good mix between zs6 / zs10.

I wait CCA10 too. I saw different review on this and I think that is the same tuning.

PS : I try to write the most possible without Google translate but I'm rusty too


----------



## mbwilson111

TechnoidFR said:


> [QUOTE = "DynamicEars, post: 14712012, membre: 507080"] Vous avez BQEYZ KC2, comment comparer ZS7 à eux? [/ QUOTE]
> 
> Pas encore comparé. Cette nuit !
> Mais kc2 semble plus neutre je pense
> ...



You forgot to translate this one My French is very very rusty now.


----------



## TechnoidFR

mbwilson111 said:


> You forgot to translate this one My French is very very rusty now.



Edited 

My page had translated after to have writing... Lol


----------



## Wiljen

DynamicEars said:


> You got BQEYZ KC2, how ZS7 compared to them?



better sub-bass presence by a good bit.  overall both are tight and clean but Zs7 wins on detail level.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Just compared. 

They are completely different. Kc2 is very neutral comparing to zs7

For the moment, The NiceHCK M6 seems the more near of ZS7. soft, good bass great detail and great scene. Need more listen them


----------



## Podster

"The NiceHCK M6 seems the more near of ZS7"

Hmm, that right there may cause me to hold off that ZS7 order since I already have a pretty BLUE iem


----------



## TechnoidFR

Ah ah. 

But now go burn in. First impression is excellent but absolutely not the same thing than kc2 or zs6. Don't know who say the zs7 is just better zs6 but they are completely different!


----------



## Wiljen (Jan 11, 2019)

Ok, I'll say it.  The Zs7 is better than the Zs6.   No question in my mind as to my ear the Zs7 is easily the best thing Kz has done since the Zs5v1 and I personally think it may be the best thing KZ has made to date.   All of the harsh treble of the previous generation is gone.  Sub-bass is better while mid-bass is dialed back slightly so it isnt over shadowing the mids anymore and detail level is the best of any Kz and on par with the NiceHCK m6 or BGVP DMG.   It is now a shallow V instead of the very deep V of previous generations and what extra energy it does have is well used to give it both good rumble and some sparkle without getting harsh.     

I've spent all day with them in my ears today running from the AK70mk2 and the longer I listen the more I like them.    

Either KZ finally took the things we have been saying about the Zs5 and Zs6 to heart, or this is the happiest accident for them yet in terms of sound signature.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Hab


Wiljen said:


> Ok, I'll say it.  The Zs7 is better than the Zs6.   No question in my mind as to my ear the Zs7 is easily the best thing Kz has done since the Zs5v1 and I personally think it may be the best think KZ has made to date.   All of the harsh treble of the previous generation is gone.  Sub-bass is better while mid-bass is dialed back slightly so it isnt over shadowing the mids anymore and detail level is the best of any Kz and on par with the NiceHCK m6 or BGVP DMG.   It is now a shallow V instead of the very deep V of previous generations and what extra energy it does have is well used to give it both good rumble and some sparkle without getting harsh.
> 
> I've spent all day with them in my ears today running from the AK70mk2 and the longer I listen the more I like them.
> 
> Either KZ finally took the things we have been saying about the Zs5 and Zs6 to heart, or this is the happiest accident for them yet in terms of sound signature.



Damn...And I have the money right at this second to order the kanas pro too. 
So would you say they are great all-rounders? Good enough speed on bass to do fast stuff? Any genre you feel they are sub par at? Genres they excel at? Overall presentation is? Smooth, relaxed, energetic ect?


----------



## TechnoidFR

Podster said:


> "The NiceHCK M6 seems the more near of ZS7"
> 
> Hmm, that right there may cause me to hold off that ZS7 order since I already have a pretty BLUE iem





Wiljen said:


> Ok, I'll say it.  The Zs7 is better than the Zs6.   No question in my mind as to my ear the Zs7 is easily the best thing Kz has done since the Zs5v1 and I personally think it may be the best think KZ has made to date.   All of the harsh treble of the previous generation is gone.  Sub-bass is better while mid-bass is dialed back slightly so it isnt over shadowing the mids anymore and detail level is the best of any Kz and on par with the NiceHCK m6 or BGVP DMG.   It is now a shallow V instead of the very deep V of previous generations and what extra energy it does have is well used to give it both good rumble and some sparkle without getting harsh.
> 
> I've spent all day with them in my ears today running from the AK70mk2 and the longer I listen the more I like them.
> 
> Either KZ finally took the things we have been saying about the Zs5 and Zs6 to heart, or this is the happiest accident for them yet in terms of sound signature.



Technically they are better, I'm totally agree. But the signature is also totally different. 

But this DD is just awesome. I love my zs10 for this tuning with this dd. But with this zs7 I'm surprised. Very different of as10 which is less dynamic and less fun.


----------



## TechnoidFR

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hab
> 
> 
> Damn...And I have the money right at this second to order the kanas pro too.
> So would you say they are great all-rounders? Good enough speed on bass to do fast stuff? Any genre you feel they are sub par at? Genres they excel at? Overall presentation is? Smooth, relaxed, energetic ect?



Energetic, bass is not too fast. But very vibrant
http://www.deezer.com/track/410605832

On this music the zs7 is awesome ! Alive, trumpet are vibrant, loud, natural. The female voice is present, natural and powerful but soft. No harsch and no sibilance.

Sub bass is like cloud there the music arises. Like M6. 

The big difference with M6 is the scent and airy ! So when the voice became far and reverb, the M6 transmit this very better.


----------



## kr0mka

TechnoidFR said:


> Energetic, bass is not too fast. But very vibrant
> http://www.deezer.com/track/410605832
> 
> On this music the zs7 is awesome ! Alive, trumpet are vibrant, loud, natural. The female voice is present, natural and powerful but soft. No harsch and no sibilance.
> ...



How would you compare ZS10 vs ZS7 vs AS06?


----------



## Slater (Jan 11, 2019)

Any ZSA owners here?

Other than the cable being unique to the ZSA, what do you like and dislike about them?

And yeah, I know they probably won’t be able to compete with KZ flagship models. I’m just wondering what the general flaws are (such as for example being too dark, overly sibilant, boosted sub bass that’s overwhelming, etc).


----------



## TechnoidFR

kr0mka said:


> How would you compare ZS10 vs ZS7 vs AS06?



Same bass and energy than zs10. AS06/10 are less dynamic, more neutral less natural for me than zs7. But zs7 play to another place. Need to listen more for a better description but I think that is better fun, alive and natural of the 3


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> Any ZSA owners here?
> 
> Other than the cable being unique to the ZSA, what do you like and dislike about them?
> 
> And yeah, I know they probably won’t be able to compete with KZ flagship models. I’m just wondering what the general flaws are (such as for example being too dark, overly sibilant, boosted sub bass that’s overwhelming, etc).



Don't know exactly. But the signature is not natural for me now. It's the kz I like it the least, i don't use them.

And boost sub bass too, more es4 I think


----------



## Slater (Jan 11, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> Don't know exactly. But the signature is not natural for me now. It's the kz I like it the least, i don't use them.
> 
> And boost sub bass too, more es4 I think



I’ve only listened to mine for an hour, but right away I noticed that the mids seem to have an odd tonality that’s unnatural in a way (a bit hollow sounding).

And you’re right, the sub bass is pretty boosted.

Both characteristics are caused by the open vents in the rear cover, and it appears to be easily corrected by simply taping off the vents on the back.

It obviously compresses the soundstage somewhat, but the sound becomes much cleaner and more enjoyable.

The sound can then be further tuned by punching a small hole in the tape. Even a small 1mm hole in the tape boosts the sub bass too much IMO, so only a very small hole in the tape is necessary. Or even no hole at all.

It’s easy to test it for yourself - simply cover the rear grille vents with your fingers, pull them away, cover them again, pull them away again. The difference is immediately noticeable, and it has a much larger effect than doing the same thing on the ZS6 for example.

And big thanks to @BadReligionPunk, who generously donated his pair


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> Any ZSA owners here?
> 
> Other than the cable being unique to the ZSA, what do you like and dislike about them?
> 
> And yeah, I know they probably won’t be able to compete with KZ flagship models. I’m just wondering what the general flaws are (such as for example being too dark, overly sibilant, boosted sub bass that’s overwhelming, etc).


ZSA is prominently a V-shape one. A hybrid for bassheads with quite sparkling highs. A very nice small metal shell, but in my ears it is a bit too small to stay comfortably.

Now, my main reason to chime in is that I recently got CCA C04 (do not ask why)
It is a CCA's analog of ZSA, and everything is a tad better - the shell is one of the best fit for me (I love its rotational freedom/tolerance),  also it is a bit moderated V-shape compared to ZSA, so it sounds somewhat closer to ZSN.
So my first experience with CCA is very positive, I hope to order CCA16 when it will become more available.

P. S. CCA C04 will nicely confirm your suggestions about a small vent hole being much better


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> ZSA is prominently a V-shape one. A hybrid for bassheads with quite sparkling highs. A very nice small metal shell, but in my ears it is a bit too small to stay comfortably.
> 
> Now, my main reason to chime in is that I recently got CCA C04 (do not ask why)
> It is a CCA's analog of ZSA, and everything is a tad better - the shell is one of the best fit for me (I love its rotational freedom/tolerance),  also it is a bit moderated V-shape compared to ZSA, so it sounds somewhat closer to ZSN.
> ...



I think the ZS4 is the ultimate hybrid for bassheads


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> I think the ZS4 is the ultimate hybrid for bassheads


I did not have a chance to experience ZS 3,4,5,6. Tempted a bit with ZS7, and will definitely get 16 BAs from KZ/CCA, since I just love  a BA bass driver in AS10 and AS06.


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> I did not have a chance to experience ZS 3,4,5,6. Tempted a bit with ZS7, and will definitely get 16 BAs from KZ/CCA, since I just love  a BA bass driver in AS10 and AS06.



Zs7 and AS10 have totally different approach in bass. I prefer ZS7/ZS10 DD's but it's very complicated to compare. Technically BA BASS is very awesome. But ZS7 is more...organic I say. This DD is very particular comparing to other DD that I hear. more body, more "flexible"

I Can explain really but the feeling is very excellent


----------



## stryed

For me, multiple BAs IEMs are tempting but I'm afraid it only increased the risk of damage. One BA dropping out and you're out!
I'm already afraid of the crackling when I put the right side of my IT01....

Have been preparing for the ZS7 and passed on ZS6...The new 8BA from CCA makes me wonder if I should not wait a bit longer.
I hope the ZS7 doesn't fade away like the ED16 (was that its name??? I forgot) as it seems capable and an upgrade ZS6/5 but I have a feeling that more is to come shortly, especially since it's not on the official store of AE.(?) Might be wrong..


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> Technically they are better, I'm totally agree. But the signature is also totally different.
> 
> But this DD is just awesome. I love my zs10 for this tuning with this dd. But with this zs7 I'm surprised. Very different of as10 which is less dynamic and less fun.


Damn, I just bought the AS10 for $60 Canada and now the 7S7 is better? This buying earphones game is a very quick wallet emptying hobby.


----------



## Slater (Jan 11, 2019)

stryed said:


> For me, multiple BAs IEMs are tempting but I'm afraid it only increased the risk of damage. One BA dropping out and you're out!
> I'm already afraid of the crackling when I put the right side of my IT01....
> 
> Have been preparing for the ZS7 and passed on ZS6...The new 8BA from CCA makes me wonder if I should not wait a bit longer.
> I hope the ZS7 doesn't fade away like the ED16 (was that its name??? I forgot) as it seems capable and an upgrade ZS6/5 but I have a feeling that more is to come shortly, especially since it's not on the official store of AE.(?) Might be wrong..



So true. All it takes is 1 accidental drop on a table or the floor, and the CCA16 becomes a CCA8 lol


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mdclol said:


> I caved and got the KZ ZS7s on Amazon shipped same-day @ $50. For the price, these are an unbeatable set of IEMs and a sure recommendation to loved ones and acquaintances.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Any ZSA owners here?
> 
> Other than the cable being unique to the ZSA, what do you like and dislike about them?
> 
> And yeah, I know they probably won’t be able to compete with KZ flagship models. I’m just wondering what the general flaws are (such as for example being too dark, overly sibilant, boosted sub bass that’s overwhelming, etc).



I have a Zsa in my collection if you'd like to try it out.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Damn, I just bought the AS10 for $60 Canada and now the 7S7 is better? This buying earphones game is a very quick wallet emptying hobby.



It is sometimes aggravating. I don't even have C10 yet, and ZS7 is the dope show now. But wait! C16 in the house! 3 weeks from now and we will all be drooling over the next one. 



Slater said:


> So true. All it takes is 1 accidental drop on a table or the floor, and the CCA16 becomes a CCA8 lol


Yea, I am a clutz too. I rarely drop stuff and I try to always take the upmost care of my stuff, but stuff happens.


----------



## Wiljen (Jan 11, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hab
> 
> 
> Damn...And I have the money right at this second to order the kanas pro too.
> So would you say they are great all-rounders? Good enough speed on bass to do fast stuff? Any genre you feel they are sub par at? Genres they excel at? Overall presentation is? Smooth, relaxed, energetic ect?



I would say if you have been saving for the Kanas pro, you should go ahead and get it.  The Kanas Pro is a spectacular value and ultimately still probably a better buy as the single dynamic is much less likely to have some funky crossover issue or coherency problem that remains to be discovered in the Zs7 since none of us have had adequate time to really wring it out completely.   If in a month no such issues have been revealed, then buy the Zs7 too once you save up another $50.


----------



## DynamicEars

Wiljen said:


> better sub-bass presence by a good bit.  overall both are tight and clean but Zs7 wins on detail level.



are you mentioned "tight and clean" only for bass region or overall? i assumed that for bass section since you use tight word.

how about soundstage?

Thanks!


----------



## DynamicEars

Wiljen said:


> I would say if you have been saving for the Kanas pro, you should go ahead and get it.  The Kanas Pro is a spectacular value and ultimately still probably a better buy as the single dynamic is much less likely to have some funky crossover issue or coherency problem that remains to be discovered in the Zs7 since none of us have had adequate time to really wring it out completely.   If in a month no such issues have been revealed, then buy the Zs7 too once you save up another $50.



I think ill need to stay with my oath not to buy another KZ and instead go for kanas pro as you suggested also. Been saving for KPE while reading reviews and comparisons between its competitors


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I have a Zsa in my collection if you'd like to try it out.



Thanks for the offer - BadReligionPunk donated his


----------



## Slater (Jan 11, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Damn, I just bought the AS10 for $60 Canada and now the 7S7 is better? This buying earphones game is a very quick wallet emptying hobby.



BA16 (or AS16) is coming soon, which will be better than the ZS7. And so on and so forth....


----------



## Wiljen

DynamicEars said:


> are you mentioned "tight and clean" only for bass region or overall? i assumed that for bass section since you use tight word.
> 
> how about soundstage?
> 
> Thanks!



Understanding that my experience is still limited,  when I said tight, I was speaking of the bass and how it relates to the mids.   The trade of the mid-bass dynamic for a BA seems to have really improved attack speed in the lower range which helps an already good low end.  On the upper side, they have enough air to not feel enclosed but the hugh treble of earlier models is gone replaced by a much more accurate treble with a slight emphasis to the lower treble and a gentle roll-off above about 14kHz.   

Soundstage is good and seems to be slightly wider than deep but fairly large in both dimensions with a good sense of height.  I have not had enough listening with spatial cues to really comment on imaging yet.


----------



## Slater (Jan 12, 2019)

Ok, so I went ahead and bit the bullet on the ZS7.

I’ve been waiting for it ever since the ZS6 came out 2 years ago. No use waiting any longer

I hope it’s worth the $35 and beats out my beloved ZS6 and ZSN!

Now, the shipping waiting game begins...


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Ok, so I went ahead and bit the bullet on the ZS7.
> 
> I’ve been waiting for it ever since the ZS6 came out 2 years ago. No use waiting any longer
> 
> ...


----------



## eclein

Slater said:


> Ok, so I went ahead and bit the bullet on the ZS7.
> 
> I’ve been waiting for it ever since the ZS6 came out 2 years ago. No use waiting any longer
> 
> ...



Waiting on that same boat Slater, I broke down and ordered TRN IM1. I’ve been eyeing it since it came out the V80 has my favorite bass/sub/really low sounds and then I saw where Panda was praising his, “that bass”! Ordered Blue ones...I think I have enough KZ sound at the moment, bought 2 ZSNs, BA10, ZS5!
When funds build back up I’ll definitely get the C-16....unless it gets ripped really bad.


----------



## Le Stef

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Damn, I just bought the AS10 for $60 Canada and now the 7S7 is better? This buying earphones game is a very quick wallet emptying hobby.


Same here, lol


----------



## Le Stef

voicemaster said:


>



Voicemaster: the nice message to Slater with this video set apart, you're bringing back sweet memories, damn!


----------



## TechnoidFR

stryed said:


> For me, multiple BAs IEMs are tempting but I'm afraid it only increased the risk of damage. One BA dropping out and you're out!
> I'm already afraid of the crackling when I put the right side of my IT01....
> 
> Have been preparing for the ZS7 and passed on ZS6...The new 8BA from CCA makes me wonder if I should not wait a bit longer.
> I hope the ZS7 doesn't fade away like the ED16 (was that its name??? I forgot) as it seems capable and an upgrade ZS6/5 but I have a feeling that more is to come shortly, especially since it's not on the official store of AE.(?) Might be wrong..



Totally different to zs6/ zs5
 Don't have ed16 but es4/zsa

I can say it's the most "premium" KZ today. The sound is very impressive. Otto Motor said to me "As10 sounds like a toy after M6" and he's right. Now this is the same thing with zs7... Really impressive with this configuration !


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> Ok, so I went ahead and bit the bullet on the ZS7.
> 
> I’ve been waiting for it ever since the ZS6 came out 2 years ago. No use waiting any longer
> 
> ...





Le Stef said:


> Same here, lol



Ours zs6 are not dead, (but with kc2... They are for me)

Be waiting to have mature but big V Shaped sound. It's a new sound, afain but kz don't never do that yet. It's for me the best and the most lively sound in every frequency range. And they stay really natural

@LaughMoreDaily it's hard to comparing with as10. As10 is more neutral and really good too. But after zs7 it's like tin audio t2, it gives bland, dull ... flat on fact.


----------



## DynamicEars

Wiljen said:


> Understanding that my experience is still limited,  when I said tight, I was speaking of the bass and how it relates to the mids.   The trade of the mid-bass dynamic for a BA seems to have really improved attack speed in the lower range which helps an already good low end.  On the upper side, they have enough air to not feel enclosed but the hugh treble of earlier models is gone replaced by a much more accurate treble with a slight emphasis to the lower treble and a gentle roll-off above about 14kHz.
> 
> Soundstage is good and seems to be slightly wider than deep but fairly large in both dimensions with a good sense of height.  I have not had enough listening with spatial cues to really comment on imaging yet.



Sounds like very good and huge improvement from KZ. Your words on past reviews describe same impressions as mine. Thanks


----------



## de51red

Pulled the trigger on CCA C16. Hopefully will settle with this for sometime before getting another KZ. Sold off AS06 and AS10 just for this

Impressions coming soon...


----------



## jeffhawke

de51red said:


> Pulled the trigger on CCA C16. Hopefully will settle with this for sometime before getting another KZ. Sold off AS06 and AS10 just for this
> 
> Impressions coming soon...


We're in the same boat... For the pre-sale money, I am curious to see how it compares to a TOTL uiem I had for a few weeks to review, which cost about 20 to 25 times more... (I won't mention the name, at least for now, but it's one of the top brands, of course).


----------



## TechnoidFR

Ordered too

Few photos of ZS7 
https://twitter.com/Chifi_Fr/status/1083995721261559808?s=19


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> I think the ZS4 is the ultimate hybrid for bassheads


Hmmm... in stock, yes. When DD implemented right way in custom shell and custom vent tuning, this thing is really detailed, tight and pretty balanced 


Slater said:


> Ok, so I went ahead and bit the bullet on the ZS7.
> I’ve been waiting for it ever since the ZS6 came out 2 years ago. No use waiting any longer
> I hope it’s worth the $36 and beats out my beloved ZS6 and ZSN!
> Now, the shipping waiting game begins...


Oh, You broke down! ;D Waiting for Your impressions against nozzle modded IT01 
Btw, where did You get it for 36$ ? At that price I`m getting weak


----------



## Luxed

eclein said:


> Waiting on that same boat Slater, I broke down and ordered TRN IM1. I’ve been eyeing it since it came out the V80 has my favorite bass/sub/really low sounds and then I saw where Panda was praising his, “that bass”! Ordered Blue ones...I think I have enough KZ sound at the moment, bought 2 ZSNs, BA10, ZS5!
> When funds build back up I’ll definitely get the C-16....unless it gets ripped really bad.


I'll be waiting on your impressions  this was the next iem I wanted to buy but there's not a lot of reviews. The only one I found was on the phonograph site which I absolutely hate with all my heart. I have to scroll the equivalent of 3 reviews just to get behind all of the ads and coupons...


----------



## DynamicEars

TechnoidFR said:


> Ours zs6 are not dead, (but with kc2... They are for me)



are you saying BQEYZ is better (at least for you)? because i also think BQEYZs are superior in KZs in terms of techincal details, smoothness (no harsh at all) and forward mids.
So again how your ZS7 technical abilities vs your KC2?


----------



## TechnoidFR

DynamicEars said:


> are you saying BQEYZ is better (at least for you)? because i also think BQEYZs are superior in KZs in terms of techincal details, smoothness (no harsh at all) and forward mids.
> So again how your ZS7 technical abilities vs your KC2?



Yes the KC2 is better than kz zs6. Same signature but without hot treble. Very detail and smooth treble. He's very good iem that is replaced ZS6. 

ZS7 is technically better that ZS6 and KC2 but it is totally different, absolutly not the same signature, not flat. the zs7 have just teh same design than zs6.

Like i said, the ZS7 is very near of NiceHCK M6. Same signature, less airy  and litle more deep V shape. ( slightly more bass and more treble, and more intimate )detail is similar. Very impressive for this price


----------



## Wiljen

DynamicEars said:


> are you saying BQEYZ is better (at least for you)? because i also think BQEYZs are superior in KZs in terms of techincal details, smoothness (no harsh at all) and forward mids.
> So again how your ZS7 technical abilities vs your KC2?



two different animals -  Kc2 is almost neutral while Zs7 is a shallow V.    I like both a good bit, but these just dont lend themselves to comparison well as they are so different in sound signature.    To me the Kc2 is probably one of the best true neutrals (Kb100 also) below the Brainwavz b400 price point.   The Zs7 falls more into the NiceHck M6 or DMG territory of detailed shallow Vs.    (and I hate having to write NiceHCK in front of M6 every time but too many models are named M6 not to).


----------



## Wiljen

TechnoidFR said:


> Yes the KC2 is better than kz zs6. Same signature but without hot treble. Very detail and smooth treble. He's very good iem that is replaced ZS6.
> 
> ZS7 is technically better that ZS6 and KC2 but it is totally different, absolutly not the same signature, not flat. the zs7 have just teh same design than zs6.
> 
> Like i said, the ZS7 is very near of NiceHCK M6. Same signature, less airy  and litle more deep V shape. ( slightly more bass and more treble, and more intimate )detail is similar. Very impressive for this price



I really like the Kc2 and it is near neutral, but you are the only person I have ever heard accuse the Zs6 of being able to see neutral from where it sits let alone be neutral.  I am now wondering if you get an anomolous pair as to most of us the Zs6 is a huge V.


----------



## kidrow

Hi all,

I haven't received any replies on a separate thread asking for a recommendation on a budget chi-fi iem for a week now. So is it okay if I put a link to that thread (or copy-paste the thread contents) here?

Thanks.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Wiljen said:


> I really like the Kc2 and it is near neutral, but you are the only person I have ever heard accuse the Zs6 of being able to see neutral from where it sits let alone be neutral.  I am now wondering if you get an anomolous pair as to most of us the Zs6 is a huge V.



i don't know what to say you. But for my ears it's not so V Shape, i hear the too big treble and maybe little more sub bass, and i compared a long time the both. For me the KC2 fix the principal problem. and globally same sound experience 
I use ZS6 for classic now, but i prefer kc2 too, depending of the music


----------



## ipodlover77

Podster said:


> "The NiceHCK M6 seems the more near of ZS7"
> 
> Hmm, that right there may cause me to hold off that ZS7 order since I already have a pretty BLUE iem


My BGVP DMG came yesterday and I was gearing up to sell my KZ ZS7 that I received three days ago.
The BGVP improves on everything the ZS7 lacks, cable, packaging, fit, aesthetics BUT it just sounds so bloated to me. Like a thin layer covering the music. I'm not an audiophile at all so the fact that I can notice a difference in clarity says a lot.
I'm torn now as I love the BGVP for everything but the sound. Seems silly though to keep the BGVP at $130 when the $49 ZS7 sounds better.
Its just unfortunate that the ZS7 is so ugly when in ears.


----------



## TechnoidFR

" it just sounds so bloated to me"
@Podster can you explain ?


----------



## mbwilson111

ipodlover77 said:


> ts just unfortunate that the ZS7 is so ugly when in ears.



I do not like the look of it either... I have only seen the photos.  Not interested anyway.  Planning to only get one more special one... the Kanas Pro which I think looks awesome.


----------



## fluteloop

stryed said:


> For me, multiple BAs IEMs are tempting but I'm afraid it only increased the risk of damage. One BA dropping out and you're out!
> I'm already afraid of the crackling when I put the right side of my IT01....



I have played one set of zs6's daily for at least 5 or 6 hours a day for the past year and they sound as good as they ever did... the housing at the base of the nozzle fails eventually. the glue comes apart. I washed a pair of zst's too once, that didn't kill the ba's in those.


----------



## mbwilson111

TechnoidFR said:


> " it just sounds so bloated to me"
> @Podster can you explain ?



Which IEM are you referring to?  It gets confusing if we do not say the model name each time.


----------



## TechnoidFR

fluteloop said:


> I have played one set of zs6's daily for at least 5 or 6 hours a day for the past year and they sound as good as they ever did... the housing at the base of the nozzle fails eventually. the glue comes apart. I washed a pair of zst's too once, that didn't kill the ba's in those.



i broke 1 ba with zs10 after  5/6 falls in few days. but gloablly no problem with. But he's true, more complex gear, more easily breaking


----------



## fluteloop

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Damn, I just bought the AS10 for $60 Canada and now the 7S7 is better? This buying earphones game is a very quick wallet emptying hobby.




I haven't heard this.. he said, Subjectively... he prefers the nature of the delivery in sound... (he states he likes the less neutral more dynamic sound from the zs7)... so it doesn't mean you're going to hear the same or even prefer the same thing as he does..


----------



## mbwilson111

fluteloop said:


> I haven't heard this.. he said, Subjectively... he prefers the nature of the delivery in sound... (he states he likes the less neutral more dynamic sound from the zs7)... so it doesn't mean you're going to hear the same or even prefer the same thing as he does..



Exactly.  I, for example, prefer a more neutral sound.  I like a relaxing, non fatiguing sound...and my music choices usually reflect that.


----------



## Wiljen

kidrow said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I haven't received any replies on a separate thread asking for a recommendation on a budget chi-fi iem for a week now. So is it okay if I put a link to that thread (or copy-paste the thread contents) here?
> 
> Thanks.



I read it -just posted my thoughts in your original thread.  No need to spread it all over.   Your question is just specific enough that probably not too many people have all three to give you the answers you want.


----------



## Wiljen

ipodlover77 said:


> My BGVP DMG came yesterday and I was gearing up to sell my KZ ZS7 that I received three days ago.
> The BGVP improves on everything the ZS7 lacks, cable, packaging, fit, aesthetics BUT it just sounds so bloated to me. Like a thin layer covering the music. I'm not an audiophile at all so the fact that I can notice a difference in clarity says a lot.
> I'm torn now as I love the BGVP for everything but the sound. Seems silly though to keep the BGVP at $130 when the $49 ZS7 sounds better.
> Its just unfortunate that the ZS7 is so ugly when in ears.



Get the vented filter for the DMG before you sell it.  It opens up the signature a good bit and is well worth the $10.


----------



## de51red

TechnoidFR said:


> i broke 1 ba with zs10 after  5/6 falls in few days. but gloablly no problem with. But he's true, more complex gear, more easily breaking



Hmm I wonder how the CCA C16 will hold up later...I do worry about 8 drivers per ear complexity...hopefully will be all good...


----------



## drey101 (Jan 12, 2019)

ipodlover77 said:


> The BGVP improves on everything the ZS7 lacks, cable, packaging, fit, aesthetics BUT it just sounds so bloated to me. Like a thin layer covering the music. I'm not an audiophile at all so the fact that I can notice a difference in clarity says a lot.
> I'm torn now as I love the BGVP for everything but the sound.


I think I know this sensation you're talking about. If you want, you can try to EQ it, reduce from 200-500 and this 'bloat' fades away.

For me it's only noticeable with some song genres in ny opinion, but I can see why it seems to make rest of the sound seem veiled. Personally, I tried removing it for a few days, and while it increased perceived clarity, I ended up missing it as when I removed it, it felt like some body was missing so I removed eq and just took to listening with it again.


----------



## TechnoidFR

fluteloop said:


> I haven't heard this.. he said, Subjectively... he prefers the nature of the delivery in sound... (he states he likes the less neutral more dynamic sound from the zs7)... so it doesn't mean you're going to hear the same or even prefer the same thing as he does..



I love my AS10, but again, at this difference it's complicated to say if it's better or not. they are very good technically. But  AS10 is more flat than ZS7. And ZS7 is more dynamic but i don't find them fatiguing. 
I'm open to a lot of signature. But ZS7 is particulary good i think


----------



## mbwilson111

voicemaster said:


>




The Head-FI theme song.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Hmmm... in stock, yes. When DD implemented right way in custom shell and custom vent tuning, this thing is really detailed, tight and pretty balanced
> 
> Oh, You broke down! ;D Waiting for Your impressions against nozzle modded IT01
> Btw, where did You get it for 36$ ? At that price I`m getting weak



Well the nice thing is the ZS3e uses the same DD as ZS4, so it’s a cheap source for drivers. I have a pair on order to harvest the drivers


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 18, 2019)

XXX


----------



## Zerohour88

ipodlover77 said:


> My BGVP DMG came yesterday and I was gearing up to sell my KZ ZS7 that I received three days ago.
> The BGVP improves on everything the ZS7 lacks, cable, packaging, fit, aesthetics BUT it just sounds so bloated to me. Like a thin layer covering the music. I'm not an audiophile at all so the fact that I can notice a difference in clarity says a lot.
> I'm torn now as I love the BGVP for everything but the sound. Seems silly though to keep the BGVP at $130 when the $49 ZS7 sounds better.
> Its just unfortunate that the ZS7 is so ugly when in ears.



seems more or less similar to how crinacle described it, so its quite surprising to hear the ZS7 actually resolves better than the DMG


----------



## 1clearhead

I would like to see a comparison between the CCA C10, KZ ZS7, and the CCA C16 

I for one, like the C10 for its comfort and great balance with no harshness or sibilance with great depth, front and wide soundstage supported by a 10mm driver for bass instead of BA!

But, I'm still debating whether to get the ZS7 or the CCA C16. 

So far, I've heard good things on the ZS7, but I'm really hoping they're not bloated. As far as the C16 goes, I hope they're not too bass light according to the frequency range posted.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> I would like to see a comparison between the CCA C10, KZ ZS7, and the CCA C16
> 
> I for one, like the C10 for its comfort and great balance with no harshness or sibilance with great depth, front and wide soundstage supported by a 10mm driver for bass instead of BA!
> 
> ...



Let others get them first.  Relax and be happy with the C10.  I am not getting any of them.  I have realized that I want to enjoy the ones I already have that I like... and some that never even got much time because of all the new stuff coming in.  I have not even had a chance to listen to the AS06 that came in a week or more ago.  Mostly I have been more into buds lately but whenever I do put in one of my good (not necessarily expensive) IEMs I am amazed all over again.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Let others get them first.  Relax and be happy with the C10.  I am not getting any of them.  I have realized that I want to enjoy the ones I already have that I like... and some that never even got much time because of all the new stuff coming in.  I have not even had a chance to listen to the AS06 that came in a week or more ago.  *Mostly I have been more into buds lately* but whenever I do put in one of my good (not necessarily expensive) IEMs I am amazed all over again.


I'm still wondering how does the MEMT T5 ear buds compare to more expensive buds, since I haven't bought some in quite a while.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> I'm still wondering how does the MEMT T5 ear buds compare to more expensive buds, since I haven't bought some in quite a while.



Those are a pod not really a bud but they sound excellent.  You would like them.  There has been discussion somewhere...

If you browse a bit in the Earbuds Round-Up thread you will find many inexpensive buds of all types being praised... as well as some expensive ones.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Those are a pod not really a bud but they sound excellent.  You would like them.  There has been discussion somewhere...
> 
> If you browse a bit in the Earbuds Round-Up thread you will find many inexpensive buds of all types being praised... as well as some expensive ones.


Do you have a link to the ear buds round-up thread?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 12, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> Do you have a link to the ear buds round-up thread?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Sorry, I should have just put it in the other post.  I thought everyone knew about it 


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2594#post-14714046

@1clearhead  I am confused.  I see the Memt T5 already in your list and now I remember you were one of the people who talked about it...


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Sorry, I should have just put it in the other post.  I thought everyone knew about it
> 
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2594#post-14714046
> ...


Sorry, what I meant was; other ear buds compared to my MEMT T5's. 

...I just checked out the link! Thanks!


----------



## RvTrav

mbwilson111

Quotes from mbwilson111 to fortify your resistance.   

#1  I am not getting any of them. I have realized that I want to enjoy the ones I already have that I like... and some that never even got much time because of all the new stuff coming in.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> Sorry, what I meant was; other ear buds compared to my MEMT T5's.
> 
> ...I just checked out the link! Thanks!



Hard to beat the pod form factor for comfort.


----------



## Podster

TechnoidFR said:


> " it just sounds so bloated to me"
> @Podster can you explain ?



Sorry but I did not make the bloated statement sir, that was iPoslovers post

I’ve got zero issues with my DMG’s, they are far warmer than my ZS6’s but I have rigs that really compliment  both of them and can actually have them sound closer than one more might think.


----------



## AncientSw0rd

Trying to evaluate the ZS07 today along side it01.

Have a question, maybe someone can chime in with answers if you know.

Imagine Dragons have several songs that seem complex to me in the bass and sub bass region. I have experienced that lesser quality units (or poorly tuned maybe) usually have trouble reproducing this properly, or at least that is the way it sounds to me. Has anyone else felt this to be true? Or is it poor engineering on the recording side? I have wondered about this for a while.

Songs I am talking about are Gold and I'm So Sorry. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## DuceBoia

AncientSw0rd said:


> Trying to evaluate the ZS07 today along side it01.
> 
> Have a question, maybe someone can chime in with answers if you know.
> 
> ...


It's ass level mastering!


----------



## Slater

fluteloop said:


> I have played one set of zs6's daily for at least 5 or 6 hours a day for the past year and they sound as good as they ever did... the housing at the base of the nozzle fails eventually. the glue comes apart. I washed a pair of zst's too once, that didn't kill the ba's in those.



Easy enough to fix. Just don’t use super glue or it will ruin the drivers. $0.02 worth of epoxy and it will be fine.


----------



## mbwilson111

DuceBoia said:


> It's ass level mastering!



What does that mean?   Good?  Bad?   ???


----------



## Slater (Jan 12, 2019)

de51red said:


> Hmm I wonder how the CCA C16 will hold up later...I do worry about 8 drivers per ear complexity...hopefully will be all good...



BA drivers are fragile and easily broken. It doesn’t matter if it’s a $12 KZ ZSN, $100 C16, or a $3500 CIEM.

The moral of the story is treat all IEMs with BA drivers like they’re made of glass, and you’ll get years of use from it.

Store it in a case when not in use, take care when untangling it so the shells don’t swing around and smack tables and things, when attaching or removing the cables from the shells do it over carpet or a bed, don’t drop it in a hard floor, etc.

Treat them right and they will treat you right.


----------



## DuceBoia

Artistically I find Imagine Dragons interesting.  Sonically they are unlistenable.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes never swat a moth while hanging expensive ciems dangling over your shouders while standing over a porcelain sink.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> BA drivers are fragile and easily broken. It doesn’t matter if it’s a $12 KZ ZSN, $100 C16, or a $3500 CIEM.
> 
> The moral of the story is treat all IEMs with BA drivers like they’re made of glass, and you’ll get years of use from it.
> 
> ...


Not all BAs are equal. True, they can be more prone to mechanical stress, but with the properly design membrane and driver pin/arm, they should not be intrinsically fragile. 
1 More Triple was my first BA IEM. With its sturdy aluminum shell, I dropped and bumped it severely without any detrimental consequences.


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> Yes never swat a moth while hanging expensive ciems dangling over your shouders while standing over a porcelain sink.



Wait...what did I miss?  There was a moth?  What broke?


----------



## ipodlover77

Leaning very heavily towards saying goodbye to the BGVP 
When I first realized the "bloated" bass sensation, I immediately switched out the filters to the silver variant as it was supposed to increase treble while lowering bass. While it did make a small improvement, it still made songs with prominent bass a bit hard to listen to.

A clear example of the muddiness of the BGVP bass comes through very noticeably on "On Melancholy Hill" by the Gorillaz. The thumps just sound smeary and blended together. The lack of crispness really pulls you out of the immersion.

Again, I'm not an audiophile at all and I don't analyze my tracks. I just received my ZS7 first so that is the only reason why I noticed these differences between the two. Who knows, maybe the songs I'm hearing from the ZS7's aren't natural and is actually artificial but to *me* the ZS7 just sounds so much clearer, more precise. Not to mention, funner.

I had my GF, someone who absolutely does not care about technology and thinks that airpods sounds great, AB the two IEM's. I was hoping the sound difference between the two would be so narrow that she would want me to just keep the BGVP due to the better build (which she admitted), the more comfortable fit (which was noticeable), and the better look. She tried the BGVP and said "not bad." Tried the ZS7 and immediately said "keep these. No contest."

This is the second time I've been burned by buying into the community hype. The Tin T2 Pros which was supposedly the greatest $50 headphones, were knives in my ears, and now the BGVP, the IEM's that were supposed to punch way above its weight, left me disappointed with muddy bass.

Maybe at this point I should just accept that I need to keep the ugly as sin ZS7, the ones that leave imprints inside my ears due to the stupid angular shape, and just buy a replacement cable (which btw people say oxidizes) on Amazon.

I was contemplating on going up the Chi-Fi food chain to Moon Dragon or Moon Rocks, or w/e the Moon headphones are called which are supposed to be the next great hope but I think I just might play it safe and just keep what I have. I'm pretty tired of the returns and I also don't want my Amazon account shut down.

Still, if I could find the ZS7 in the BGVP body, that would be heaven.


----------



## CoiL

ipodlover77 said:


> Maybe at this point I should just accept that I need to keep the ugly as sin ZS7, the ones that leave imprints inside my ears due to the stupid angular shape


cover tiny vent holes on shells with tiny tape, take piece of sandpaper and just sand over all those edges and points that irritate Your ears, then go lay down on sofa, turn off lights and enjoy best ~50$ You`ve spent @ mobile audio gear


----------



## antdroid

I’m finally starting to write up my review of the ZSN and AS06.

Some quick things on the AS06.

It’s got a laid back sound compared to pretty much the rest of the lineup from KZ. I find the mids to be overly recessed and bass still a bit more raised than I like – which does cause a little bit of muddiness. I also find male vocals to sound really off – compressed and not in tune. Female vocals don’t suffer as bad, but in general, the mids don’t sound quite right. It does improve with a change of tips from foam/stock tips to generic “jaybird” silicone tips, as that seems to reduce the effects of the bass though. With that change, I seem to like it more, and feels more natural, though then you possibly run into sibilance issues.

Also don’t like the fit or formfactor or look of it. It was also something I didn’t particularly like in the AS10 either. I think looking back, I over-ranked the AS10 originally when I reviewed it, probably from the shock value of KZ making something that sounded less (and it’s a big relative less) V-shaped (as it is still V-shaped).

The ZSN, doesnt suffer from uneven mids, but does have that peak and trough in the upper mids to lower treble, that can be prone to harshness.


----------



## PhonoPhi

ipodlover77 said:


> Leaning very heavily towards saying goodbye to the BGVP
> When I first realized the "bloated" bass sensation, I immediately switched out the filters to the silver variant as it was supposed to increase treble while lowering bass. While it did make a small improvement, it still made songs with prominent bass a bit hard to listen to.
> 
> A clear example of the muddiness of the BGVP bass comes through very noticeably on "On Melancholy Hill" by the Gorillaz. The thumps just sound smeary and blended together. The lack of crispness really pulls you out of the immersion.
> ...



You may want to check CCA C10, which is a reasonably close analogue of KZ ZS7 with the same (4BA +DD) driver set from the KZ's sister company in a bit friendlier shell.


----------



## voicemaster

ipodlover77 said:


> Leaning very heavily towards saying goodbye to the BGVP
> When I first realized the "bloated" bass sensation, I immediately switched out the filters to the silver variant as it was supposed to increase treble while lowering bass. While it did make a small improvement, it still made songs with prominent bass a bit hard to listen to.
> 
> A clear example of the muddiness of the BGVP bass comes through very noticeably on "On Melancholy Hill" by the Gorillaz. The thumps just sound smeary and blended together. The lack of crispness really pulls you out of the immersion.
> ...


One thing for sure, she is a keeper.


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> BA drivers are fragile and easily broken. It doesn’t matter if it’s a $12 KZ ZSN, $100 C16, or a $3500 CIEM.
> 
> The moral of the story is treat all IEMs with BA drivers like they’re made of glass, and you’ll get years of use from it.
> 
> ...



Is the BA fragility concern due to the "ferro fluid" that is often used to dampen their armature? Or is it just that BAs are such tiny mechanical constructions that they can't take large G-forces/impact?


----------



## jeffhawke

ipodlover77 said:


> I'm torn now as I love the BGVP for everything but the sound.


What else? Ditch the BGVP!


----------



## PhonoPhi

ShakyJake said:


> Is the BA fragility concern due to the "ferro fluid" that is often used to dampen their armature? Or is it just that BAs are such tiny mechanical constructions that they can't take large G-forces/impact?


Ferrofluid actually should help to moderate the impact. Fragility is in the membrane/pin design.


----------



## eclein

ipodlover77 said:


> Leaning very heavily towards saying goodbye to the BGVP
> When I first realized the "bloated" bass sensation, I immediately switched out the filters to the silver variant as it was supposed to increase treble while lowering bass. While it did make a small improvement, it still made songs with prominent bass a bit hard to listen to.
> 
> A clear example of the muddiness of the BGVP bass comes through very noticeably on "On Melancholy Hill" by the Gorillaz. The thumps just sound smeary and blended together. The lack of crispness really pulls you out of the immersion.
> ...



You guys message me if selling I haven’t tried the BGVP yet.....seriously, if I can swing it I’ll buy a set!


----------



## CYoung234

AncientSw0rd said:


> Trying to evaluate the ZS07 today along side it01.
> 
> Have a question, maybe someone can chime in with answers if you know.
> 
> ...


Just listened to Gold on my ZS10s. Some of the track is just too dense - the problem is not the iem but the recording. The rest of the low end is all good, and the sub bass does not mess with the mids at all. Imagine Dragons seems to oversaturate some of their recordings. Listening to Im So Sorry now, and it is the same. A hot mess...


----------



## mbwilson111

CYoung234 said:


> Just listened to Gold on my ZS10s. Some of the track is just too dense - the problem is not the iem but the recording. The rest of the low end is all good, and the sub bass does not mess with the mids at all. Imagine Dragons seems to oversaturate some of their recordings. Listening to Im So Sorry now, and it is the same. A hot mess...



I listened earlier with full sized headphones using my desktop setup and it was not bad.  Very busy but there was enough space.  Maybe they did not consider portable audio?


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> Yes never swat a moth while hanging expensive ciems dangling over your shouders while standing over a porcelain sink.



Never do this either:


----------



## Slater (Jan 12, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Not all BAs are equal. True, they can be more prone to mechanical stress, but with the properly design membrane and driver pin/arm, they should not be intrinsically fragile.
> 1 More Triple was my first BA IEM. With its sturdy aluminum shell, I dropped and bumped it severely without any detrimental consequences.



While this is true, my belief is if you treat ALL BA gear carefully, you’ll never have a problem.

The fragile stuff, the better made stuff, the ferro fluid stuff, the ones where the BA is mounted in a silicone sleeve. It will ALL be OK if you treat it all with respect.

Like how they say to treat all guns as loaded. If you get into the habit of treating everything with consistency, then you don’t have to be like “_oh, this one is fragile so I have to be real careful with it, but that one has better made BAs so I’m OK to kick it across the tile floor because it will be fine”._


----------



## AncientSw0rd

mbwilson111 said:


> I listened earlier with full sized headphones using my desktop setup and it was not bad.  Very busy but there was enough space.  Maybe they did not consider portable audio?



Listening on my Rhapsodio Galaxy, the track sounds fine. It is congested, but it resolves ok. On a lot of these cheaper sets it just sounds like distortion to me. It is generally ok on the ZS07 if you keep volume down. When you raise the volume the problem gets worse to my ears. The it01 is a little bit cleaner at volume to me, then the ZS07 on these two tracks.


----------



## AncientSw0rd (Jan 12, 2019)

I just picked up AS10 and ZS10 super cheap out of the classifieds. Now I can get a good comparison of these latest KZ models, with AS10, ZS07 and ZS10 in the house.

Trying AS10 just now running balanced out of my Opus #1.  311 and most of the rock/metal I have listened to sounds amazing on these...

ZS10 sounds good as well, but ZS07 sounds better IMO.  ZS07 is more sensitive by quite a bit.  Bass hits a little harder, but similar sound between the two. I think ZS07 resolves better and a little more crisp up top, but not harsh.


----------



## Slater (Jan 13, 2019)

ipodlover77 said:


> This is the second time I've been burned by buying into the community hype. The Tin T2 Pros which was supposedly the greatest $50 headphones, were knives in my ears, and now the BGVP, the IEM's that were supposed to punch way above its weight, left me disappointed with muddy bass.
> 
> Maybe at this point I should just accept that I need to keep the ugly as sin ZS7, the ones that leave imprints inside my ears due to the stupid angular shape, and just buy a replacement cable (which btw people say oxidizes) on Amazon.



Yo friend, please don’t get discouraged!

Not sure what “community” you’re referring to. I hope you’re not getting all of these ideas from YouTube reviews are you?

On HeadFi, it’s the NON PRO T2 that was always recommended and hyped (and deservingly so). In fact, I can’t really remember any overwhelming HeadFi community recommendation for the Pro over the regular T2.

The Pro is sharper to your ears because that’s exactly what TinAudio did to the Pro. They took the regular T2 and cranked up the treble dial to 11, and that’s the T2 Pro.

I can understand confusion over the word “Pro” and thinking “wow, Pro has to be better than non-Pro, otherwise they wouldn’t have called it Pro. Who doesn’t want to be a Pro at something? I’ll go with that one.” But no, not in this case. I don’t know what TinAudio was thinking.

Also, a lot of cables oxidize. That’s what all silver and all copper does (eventually). It doesn’t hurt anything, and the oxidation is actually a protective coating. It’s stritcly a cosmetic annoyance. Cables with PVC insulation will do it faster than non-PVC insulation (TPE, Teflon, etc), because PVC plastic is more porous and lets more air and humidity through.

This is why many cables have colored or tinted insulation - the brownish/bronze color, black, bright yellow, smoke grey, etc. It’s not that the colored cables don’t oxidize; it’s that the colored insulation hides it.


----------



## gbrgbr

Would the KZ ED9 be better than the IEMs that are bundled with Samsung _mid-range_ smartphones?

Someone I know needs a replacement and does not want over-the-ear or memory-wire type IEMs.

Would the EDR1 be more comfortable/usable for a typical/average user?
Difficult to know which are the original (Slater recommended  ) EDR1s on AE.


----------



## nxnje

gbrgbr said:


> Would the KZ ED9 be better than the IEMs that are bundled with Samsung _mid-range_ smartphones?
> 
> Someone I know needs a replacement and does not want over-the-ear or memory-wire type IEMs.
> 
> ...


I trusted Slater many times and i've never gone wrong, EDR1s are excellent.
You can buy them on aliexpress, the important thing is that you see in the description there's no name about EDSE o EDR2 ecc ecc no special edition and things like that. Just EDR1.

Then, now about the ED9.
The ED9 are EXCELLENT for what they cost and for how are they made.
The single dynamic driver is really good there, i think one of the best IEMS under 20$.
They're (in my opinion) a big step up from the bundled samsung earphones.

EDR1A have a bigger price/quality ratio, but the ED9 are just better (except the low end, i think the low end in the EDR1 is better) in everything.
The EDR1 are VERY comfortable and the ed9 are too.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 13, 2019)

Glad I didn`t pull trigger on ZS7 as it won`t even come close to this:


Spoiler: FR graph








(done in REW using MiniDSP EARS and iFi micro iDSD Black Label)










Bye-bye KZ for me 

Just for information - I`m letting go all of my IEMs as whole package (not only KZs) for good price. Who is interested let me know via PM and after "hand-shake" I`ll make selling thread to do it legitimate way.


----------



## nxnje (Jan 13, 2019)

CoiL said:


> Glad I didn`t pull trigger on ZS7 as it won`t even come close to this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: FR graph
> ...



You're speaking like if yours is a fair comparison.
It's like if i say "glad i didn't buy a VW Polo, it won't even come close the my brand new Porsche Carrera".
Just sayin'.. the kanas pro is sure a better earphone but the FR Graphs can say all and nothing.
People can't evaluate a pair of iems just watching a FR Graph.


----------



## SHAMuuu

nxnje said:


> You're speaking like if yours is a fair comparison.
> It's like if i say "glad i didn't buy a VW Polo, it won't even come close the my brand new Porsche Carrera".
> Just sayin'



Yea exactly, as this chi-fi come closer to $200, you're facing Sony 800st as a competitor. I mean if it beats the 800st, then that is really something. Also at 99$ the re600 Songbird v2 probably would put up some fight.
$100+ chi-fi is gambling to me


----------



## CoiL

nxnje said:


> People can't evaluate a pair of iems just watching a FR Graph.


Sorry if I touched someones feelings but FR graphs do show a lot while I agree they don`t show everything.
Just that KZ keeps on pumping new models and raising price while I rarely see anyone here (if at all) saying that this or that KZ is my personal TOTL. Instead ppl keep buying more and more KZs. Yes, I know there is good side of it having experience and getting to know personal preference etc. but C`mon - keep that money and collect littlebit more - You`ll end up with much more bang for buck in the end that any KZ (yet) can touch (and I doubt it will for long time). 

And I didn`t post those graphs just because I believe only in graphs - they also repserend lot of ppl impressions and reviews which I read a lot.


----------



## mbwilson111

CoiL said:


> Glad I didn`t pull trigger on ZS7 as it won`t even come close to this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: FR graph
> ...



Surely this package does not include your beloved modded iBasso IT01.


----------



## nxnje

CoiL said:


> Sorry if I touched someones feelings but FR graphs do show a lot while I agree they don`t show everything.
> Just that KZ keeps on pumping new models and raising price while I rarely see anyone here (if at all) saying that this or that KZ is my personal TOTL. Instead ppl keep buying more and more KZs. Yes, I know there is good side of it having experience and getting to know personal preference etc. but C`mon - keep that money and collect littlebit more - You`ll end up with much more bang for buck in the end that any KZ (yet) can touch (and I doubt it will for long time).
> 
> And I didn`t post those graphs just because I believe only in graphs - they also repserend lot of ppl impressions and reviews which I read a lot.



Never say KZ products can be TOTL or best bang for the buck ever, and never said they are the best earphones in the world.
I just stated the comparison isn't fair as the kanas pro are between 150$-200$ while u can find the ZS7 for around 35$ (i paid even less for a review sample and a discount).
You didn't touch my feelings at the moment as i personally care about my pocket (no money for a good iem or ciem) but was just saying what i wasn't right with.


----------



## AncientSw0rd (Jan 13, 2019)

I actually bought several of these newer KZ to check their sound out before giving them away.  

I have several close friends and a relative who have never tried anything but free buds or beats. Hoping I can get them into HiFi ... 

I think KZ is great for this purpose.


----------



## Zerohour88

CoiL said:


> Sorry if I touched someones feelings but FR graphs do show a lot while I agree they don`t show everything.
> Just that KZ keeps on pumping new models and raising price while I rarely see anyone here (if at all) saying that this or that KZ is my personal TOTL. Instead ppl keep buying more and more KZs. Yes, I know there is good side of it having experience and getting to know personal preference etc. but C`mon - keep that money and collect littlebit more - You`ll end up with much more bang for buck in the end that any KZ (yet) can touch (and I doubt it will for long time).
> 
> And I didn`t post those graphs just because I believe only in graphs - they also repserend lot of ppl impressions and reviews which I read a lot.



I envy your optimism, finding a TOTL for less than $100

you talk as if each KZ didn't steadily improve upon each model in the series

either way, Moondrop is good, no doubt. They reach the Harman target quite precisely even for their lower-end models.

enjoy


----------



## voicemaster

Why not buy campfire solaris or the most expensive ciem out there and be done with. I am sure those have a pretty fr graph and trashed all iems under $1000.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Surely this package does not include your beloved modded iBasso IT01.


It does.


nxnje said:


> Never say KZ products can be TOTL or best bang for the buck ever, and never said they are the best earphones in the world.
> I just stated the comparison isn't fair as the kanas pro are between 150$-200$ while u can find the ZS7 for around 35$ (i paid even less for a review sample and a discount).
> You didn't touch my feelings at the moment as i personally care about my pocket (no money for a good iem or ciem) but was just saying what i wasn't right with.


You didn`t understand what I was saying. Don`t bother to explain more. Hope You understand this at some point, though, when You have spent few years changing and wanting better IEM for dirt-cheap. I`ve been in KZs from the early years starting with R36, ANV etc. and know what I`m talking.
And I wasn`t accusing You saying KZ is TOTL - don`t read my words wrong. I said I hardly remember anyone saying they found their PERSONAL TOTL. For me, my experience and gear, it is possible at next level.


Zerohour88 said:


> I envy your optimism, finding a TOTL for less than $100
> Harman target quite precisely even for their lower-end models.
> enjoy


Yes, for under 100$ I reached to about 99% PERSONAL TOTL sound preference level, with modded IT01 and I`m happy.
I know what I want next call it done 
I`m not into head-fi and IEM because of price tags and general opinion. I stay true to my own ears and if I think I have found what I think is perfect for me - I`m happy and don`t care if someone says there is something "better"  It`s all subjective and depends on many factors.


----------



## Zerohour88

CoiL said:


> Yes, for under 100$ I reached to about 99% PERSONAL TOTL sound preference level, with modded IT01 and I`m happy.
> I know what I want next call it done
> I`m not into head-fi and IEM because of price tags and general opinion. I stay true to my own ears and if I think I have found what I think is perfect for me - I`m happy and don`t care if someone says there is something "better"  It`s all subjective and depends on many factors.



glad you're happy

I suppose it didn't need putting down KZ and subsequently their fans, but what do I know


----------



## nxnje

CoiL said:


> It does.
> 
> You didn`t understand what I was saying. Don`t bother to explain more. Hope You understand this at some point, though, when You have spent few years changing and wanting better IEM for dirt-cheap. I`ve been in KZs from the early years starting with R36, ANV etc. and know what I`m talking.
> And I wasn`t accusing You saying KZ is TOTL - don`t read my words wrong. I said I hardly remember anyone saying they found their PERSONAL TOTL. For me, my experience and gear, it is possible at next level.
> ...



Now we're ok. Everything is subjective.
Didn't wanna put up some flame, just wanted to make a statement.
Anyway, glad you found your own IEM.


----------



## khighly

ipodlover77 said:


> This is the second time I've been burned by buying into the community hype. The Tin T2 Pros which was supposedly the greatest $50 headphones, were knives in my ears, and now the BGVP, the IEM's that were supposed to punch way above its weight, left me disappointed with muddy bass.



What I've learned here is that it's all absolute bull. Almost nothing here is rooted in fact, it's all opinion, which by nature is kind of how a place like this would work since people have different ears, different brains, different wiring, so no matter how they hear it, you probably won't hear it the same way. The point is and it should be in the rules plastered everywhere here (but that's not good marketing): *Everything is entirely subjective. *

*<subjective>*Every single IEM I've fell into hype for has been mediocre at best. 1More Triple's are terribly boring. iBasso is overrated, the IT03's can get crushed by the ZSN's or ZS10's, and the IT01's I guarantee are not any better regardless of how much some more "trusted experts" push them. The ZSN's are mediocre at best, maybe something good for friends and family to have a cheap, but were pushed here _in an audiophile forum_ for weeks, relentlessly, as if they were some perfectly tuned 12BA 10DD messiah pinna-tickling soundstage monster IEM that prints money, washes your dishes, and punches above anything Campfire Audio can market you. ATH-M50x are worse than almost all of KZ's offerings, both bluetooth and wired.*</subjective>* 

You will continuously chase a dragon as if you're funding a crack habit watching others buy and preach IEM's here. Don't fall for it. Take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt, find opinions that match up with others and look at those IEM's, and only spend money when you can afford to spend it...it does add up. The most important thing I can also recommend: spend time listening; your ears WILL adjust to peaks and troughs in the sound signature and compensate, don't take initial 5 minute listening experiences seriously unless you're deep into comparing IEM's one after another for a review.

Ignore all hype, find something cheap you enjoy, stick with it. Take advantage of refund policies on popular websites.

This is my last post here. Take care.


----------



## jant71

^^^ You forgot this...


----------



## khighly

CoiL said:


> Sorry if I touched someones feelings but FR graphs do show a lot while I agree they don`t show everything.
> Just that KZ keeps on pumping new models and raising price while I rarely see anyone here (if at all) saying that this or that KZ is my personal TOTL. Instead ppl keep buying more and more KZs. Yes, I know there is good side of it having experience and getting to know personal preference etc. but C`mon - keep that money and collect littlebit more - You`ll end up with much more bang for buck in the end that any KZ (yet) can touch (and I doubt it will for long time).
> 
> And I didn`t post those graphs just because I believe only in graphs - they also repserend lot of ppl impressions and reviews which I read a lot.


Absolute nonsense. More money does not mean you will like it better. You're encouraging needless consumption based on your sole preferences when they may not be others preferences. You buy more and more IEM's and fall for the hype as well, so i'm not sure why you're insulting KZ hobbyists collecting $10-$40 IEM's.


----------



## nxnje

khighly said:


> What I've learned here is that it's all absolute bull****. Almost nothing here is rooted in fact, it's all opinion, which by nature is kind of how a place like this would work since people have different ears, different brains, different wiring, so no matter how they hear it, you probably won't hear it the same way. The point is and it should be in the rules plastered everywhere here (but that's not good marketing): *Everything is entirely subjective. *
> 
> *<subjective>*Every single IEM I've fell into hype for has been mediocre at best. 1More Triple's are terribly boring. iBasso is overrated, the IT03's can get crushed by the ZSN's or ZS10's, and the IT01's I guarantee are not any better regardless of how much some more "trusted experts" push them. The ZSN's are mediocre at best, maybe something good for friends and family to have a cheap, but were pushed here _in an audiophile forum_ for weeks, relentlessly, as if they were some perfectly tuned 12BA 10DD messiah pinna-tickling soundstage monster IEM that prints money, washes your dishes, and punches above anything Campfire Audio can market you. ATH-M50x are worse than almost all of KZ's offerings, both bluetooth and wired.*</subjective>*
> 
> ...



I agree with your "motto" when you say everything is subjective but...
You pratically stated every IEM you bought just sucks, you were the one following the hype atm.
I personally see a pair of IEM is well reviewed and if they're cheap, i try them.
Way better trying a headphone which is praised by everyone than throwing money in unknown crap you may never use.


----------



## Zerohour88

nxnje said:


> I agree with your "motto" when you say everything is subjective but...
> You pratically stated every IEM you bought just sucks, you were the one following the hype atm.
> I personally see a pair of IEM is well reviewed and if they're cheap, i try them.
> Way better trying a headphone which is praised by everyone than throwing money in unknown crap you may never use.



um, it helps if you read the pink words at the beginning and end of that paragraph


----------



## khighly (Jan 13, 2019)

nxnje said:


> You pratically stated every IEM you bought just sucks, you were the one following the hype atm.



You've read incorrectly. I never said this. AS10 is my favorite IEM right now and I've been sticking with it and would highly recommend it. All of my past posts here indicate otherwise as well, where I praise the strengths of many IEM's. None are *bad *(except ED12), they just don't live up the mind numbing full body orgasm the hype always promises, and none ever will. New people to IEM's and headphones in general, including Chi-Fi participators, need to lower their expectations all around including for the high end IEM's.

Everyone should have a $9 pair of SHE3590's to remind them of reality every once in awhile. They really aren't too far off in sound quality from any IEM I own and can set a nice baseline for "am I getting absolutely taken by nothing but marketing and hype"? They're one of the most common IEM's available in Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, almost everyone has or has had them at least once and aren't some specialized niche IEM. I guarantee they're no more than a few cents to produce at the mass production they're at.

This is truly my last post. Cya!


----------



## antdroid (Jan 13, 2019)

I think what @CoiL is trying to say is a phrase commonly used as "stuck in mid-fi hell." haha. Which a lot of people tend to be at or in this case maybe "budget hell". Some people choose to be as a hobbyist or fan, and that's okay. If you really are searching for the higher quality, you should consider that all your $20-70 budget purchases could have been pooled together to get something in the $200-500 range which in general can be a natural clear step above. But you should only go there if budget allows, and you know generally what you like.

For my personal journey, I started off on budget stuff for a short time, then moved up to mid-fi and stayed there for too long, before just going out and getting $500-$1000 stuff after demoing and reading a lot on it and I am super happy with my current collection of headphones which is quite smaller than what I had before but each individual one matches my tastes, provides (IMHO) better quality sound reproduction and quality build, and gets used more often. In general, I find greater value in say my Focal Elex and Elegia than I ever did with my KZ or Tin Audio.

IEMs are a little bit trickier as they are generally limited by physics. I still find that theres a big step up around $200. The Campfire Orion is a great IEM, and so is the Audio Technica LS-200iS at $250. I'd take those over any KZ, Tin, TRN product any day of the week. So, 5-8 KZs vs 1 IEM... I personally would take quality over quantity. But it's everyone's preferences of course.

Also, when you step up, typically youre stepping up and out of the V-Shape signature (with some exceptions like the Fostex TH-series), as you move into more of the flatter (or closer to flatter) response with some exceptions. So, if you like the boosted bass and treble, then KZ could be end game or close to end game for you, as they do offer a lot of their price point for that style of sound signature.

note: this is all subjective commentary!


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> Everyone should have a $9 pair of SHE3590's to remind them of reality every once in awhile. They really aren't too far off in sound quality from any IEM I own and can set a nice baseline for "am I getting absolutely taken by nothing but marketing and hype"?



Hey, I could get one in purple!  Could have it tomorrow!


----------



## antdroid (Jan 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Hey, I could get one in purple!  Could have it tomorrow!



I use those for snowboarding. They work fine for that purpose.

Also purple is great.


----------



## antdroid

mbwilson111 said:


> Hey, I could get one in purple!  Could have it tomorrow!



You should take a look at the Loxjie P20 tube hybrid. It glows *purple*, it's cheap (less than $100 USD), and it sounds excellent (via balanced). I sold a couple much higher priced amps to keep it. I like purple too. My CIEMs are purple shelled.


----------



## mbwilson111

antdroid said:


> You should take a look at the Loxjie P20 tube hybrid. It glows *purple*, it's cheap (less than $100 USD), and it sounds excellent (via balanced). I sold a couple much higher priced amps to keep it. I like purple too. My CIEMs are purple shelled.



Sounds cool but I already have enough amps.... one of which is a tube amp (not balanced).  I really have nowhere to put anything else.  Might not even have room for those tiny iems... lol.   Two headfiers live here you know


----------



## fluteloop

TechnoidFR said:


> i broke 1 ba with zs10 after  5/6 falls in few days. but gloablly no problem with. But he's true, more complex gear, more easily breaking



by "falls" are you saying you dropped your headphones to the ground 5 or 6 times in a few days? if so... they're not really designed for that.


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 13, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> I love my AS10, but again, at this difference it's complicated to say if it's better or not. they are very good technically. But  AS10 is more flat than ZS7. And ZS7 is more dynamic but i don't find them fatiguing.
> I'm open to a lot of signature. But ZS7 is particulary good i think



@LaughMoreDaily

Laugh more.. he never said one was better than the other he said he preferred the zs7.. don't fret, if you like flatter response the as10 has ou covered but if you like vshaped stuff keep the as10's box and sell them on. from what i've heard the as10's are very good. they're likely to be my next purchase in a few days.


----------



## TechnoidFR

fluteloop said:


> by "falls" are you saying you dropped your headphones to the ground 5 or 6 times in a few days? if so... they're not really designed for that.



Exact. 
Yes of course but it could be more resistant. Just one example but the only for the moment



fluteloop said:


> @LaughMoreDaily
> 
> Laugh more.. he never said one was better than the other he said he preferred the zs7.. don't fret, if you like flatter response the as10 has ou covered but if you like vshaped stuff keep the as10's box and sell them on. from what i've heard the as10's are very good. they're likely to be my next purchase in a few days.



Exactly, sorry if I misspoke.  You can see my preferred Iem and as10 is in my list ( that I have always on me )


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> Easy enough to fix. Just don’t use super glue or it will ruin the drivers. $0.02 worth of epoxy and it will be fine.



 Good news... I have plenty of epoxy of various kinds but I have to work out which one is water resistant.

For those interested.. Standard epoxy will eventually soak up water (It takes quite a while)  and fall apart, this only poses a problem due to the sheer length of time the units sit in my humid warm cranial cavities... The main problem,.... Excercising... I excercise daily in the headphones soo... .. don't dismiss this advice from @Slater (for those who like information) in MY use case scenario... water resistant epoxy is one of the best ideas.. anyone else... people who do not exercise in their headphones or use them constantly througout the day... standard 2part epoxy (without testing it myself) i'd be using it Only if I was a regular user...(few hours a day, no exercising)  I wouldnt have given it a second thought...

Why I came to this conclusion was...The glue was there, it wasn't as if they'd maybe missed a patch or didn't get enough on the part; it was there but it had softened to something resembling like a bit of chewed gum. kinda gummy and stretchy so... I can only summise the heavy use and moisture from perspiration, condensation and living in a generally pretty hot clime.  (you can see steam coming off your back during the day... you can see your moisture leaving your body...it looks like your soul is leaving you.. your soul gets too hot and leaves)

thankfully I do have some of the water resistant stuff I just need to locate it.

Slater...again... looking out for the community... a good man indeed,  Thank You.


----------



## AncientSw0rd

This thread is turning absurd. Of course more expensive IEM's will usually sound better. 

This thread has been about how different KZ models sound. They are a bargain at their price. 

If you are done with KZ then there are other threads...


----------



## nxnje

antdroid said:


> I think what @CoiL is trying to say is a phrase commonly used as "stuck in mid-fi hell." haha. Which a lot of people tend to be at or in this case maybe "budget hell". Some people choose to be as a hobbyist or fan, and that's okay. If you really are searching for the higher quality, you should consider that all your $20-70 budget purchases could have been pooled together to get something in the $200-500 range which in general can be a natural clear step above. But you should only go there if budget allows, and you know generally what you like.
> 
> For my personal journey, I started off on budget stuff for a short time, then moved up to mid-fi and stayed there for too long, before just going out and getting $500-$1000 stuff after demoing and reading a lot on it and I am super happy with my current collection of headphones which is quite smaller than what I had before but each individual one matches my tastes, provides (IMHO) better quality sound reproduction and quality build, and gets used more often. In general, I find greater value in say my Focal Elex and Elegia than I ever did with my KZ or Tin Audio.
> 
> ...



Uhh yes, these are the posts i like to read.
I mean i know my incoming zs7, my beloved zs6, ed9, memt x5, trn v80s.. can't match a campfire andromeda.. cmon it's all about reality.
The thing that stops most is that IEMs are tricky like you said.. and in any case i could even step up to a 300$ iem and maybe not be satisfied about the jump.
In any case, chi-fi is not hi-fi, so pumping the budget to hi-fi products, we start encountering linear products which sound just as the music asks.


----------



## fluteloop

CYoung234 said:


> Just listened to Gold on my ZS10s. Some of the track is just too dense - the problem is not the iem but the recording. The rest of the low end is all good, and the sub bass does not mess with the mids at all. Imagine Dragons seems to oversaturate some of their recordings. Listening to Im So Sorry now, and it is the same. A hot mess...




the low end mastering on those two tracks is depressing.


----------



## darmanastartes (Jan 13, 2019)

CCA-C10 uncompensated measurements:


Listening impressions to follow later in the week.


----------



## Terran Earthson

There is one Russian YouTube blogger that reviewed CCA C10 today, according to him they sound pretty decent, he liked them more than ZS7 which he also praised in a different video review. 

So far so good, but still waiting for other chi-fi connoisseurs to corroborate these preliminary positive impressions.


----------



## eclein

My C10s are wonderful, look back in the thread lots of folks have them and like very much......C16s next!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

eclein said:


> My C10s are wonderful, look back in the thread lots of folks have them and like very much......C16s next!


In a Non-KZ kind of wonderful? Wonderful is one thing, but you need to be more descriptive. My KZ-ATR's are wonderful.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Terran Earthson said:


> There is one Russian YouTube blogger that reviewed CCA C10 today, according to him they sound pretty decent, he liked them more than ZS7 which he also praised in a different video review.


Why did he prefer the C10 over the ZS7?


----------



## Terran Earthson

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why did he prefer the C10 over the ZS7?


ZS7 are more V shaped, and c10 flatter, thatst why he preferred c10 over ZS7.


----------



## BoZ29

ipodlover77 said:


> Leaning very heavily towards saying goodbye to the BGVP
> When I first realized the "bloated" bass sensation, I immediately switched out the filters to the silver variant as it was supposed to increase treble while lowering bass. While it did make a small improvement, it still made songs with prominent bass a bit hard to listen to.
> 
> A clear example of the muddiness of the BGVP bass comes through very noticeably on "On Melancholy Hill" by the Gorillaz. The thumps just sound smeary and blended together. The lack of crispness really pulls you out of the immersion.
> ...


----------



## BoZ29

I am blessed with rather big ears... normally not that great, but with zs6 and coming zs7 it turns out my ears are perfect for this edgy metal iems. Just listened to some songs of Dirty Loops with my zs6 and wow these iems are so great. If the zs7 are really better than my zs6 I have nothing to wish for, and this for €34... Maybe the KZ’s are far from perfect, maybe not flat fr, but they are exiting to listen to. My Sony mh1 is more neutral, but I always grab my zs6, as they are making songs more beautiful and worth listening.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> USER=466306]@LaughMoreDaily[/USER] it's hard to comparing with as10. As10 is more neutral and really good too. But after zs7 it's like tin audio t2, it gives bland, dull ... flat on fact.


So the ZS7 is much better than a AS10?


----------



## Slater

BoZ29 said:


> I am blessed with rather big ears... normally not that great, but with zs6 and coming zs7 it turns out my ears are perfect for this edgy metal iems. Just listened to some songs of Dirty Loops with my zs6 and wow these iems are so great. If the zs7 are really better than my zs6 I have nothing to wish for, and this for €34... Maybe the KZ’s are far from perfect, maybe not flat fr, but they are exiting to listen to. My Sony mh1 is more neutral, but I always grab my zs6, as they are making songs more beautiful and worth listening.



I concur. I find myself grabbing the ZS6 more than my other IEMs.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 13, 2019)

delete


----------



## AncientSw0rd

To my ears, I would pick AS10 for rock or vocal based or ZS7 for edm/pop. Both sound good to me though, as I could live with either one if I had to.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

AncientSw0rd said:


> To my ears, I would pick AS10 for rock or vocal based or ZS7 for edm/pop. Both sound good to me though, as I could live with either one if I had to.


That's a great post. I wish people would be more descriptive like that in their opinions.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 13, 2019)

I just bought a Tennmak 2018 Piano IEM (ear heads only) on Aliexpress for $11.50. Mainly cause it comes with a case and extra ear tips. I also have a spare TRN MMCX cable laying around I want to put to good use. I'm also curious how Tennmak compares to my KZ's.

How do you think Tennmak's compare?


----------



## sino8r

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just bought a Tennmak 2018 Piano IEM (ear heads only) on Aliexpress for $11.50. Mainly cause it comes with a case and extra ear tips. I also have a spare TRN MMCX cable laying around I want to put to good use. I'm also curious how Tennmak compares to my KZ's.
> 
> How do you think Tennmak's compare?



I had the trio or whatever it was called last year for some time. I didn't really like it though. Too technical and flat sounding. Tried all the filters but very little difference. Sent it back.


----------



## Slater (Jan 13, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just bought a Tennmak 2018 Piano IEM (ear heads only) on Aliexpress for $11.50. Mainly cause it comes with a case and extra ear tips. I also have a spare TRN MMCX cable laying around I want to put to good use. I'm also curious how Tennmak compares to my KZ's.
> 
> How do you think Tennmak's compare?



I have the Tennmak Crazy Cello. I got it for a blowout price on Amazon (in 10/2018 for $25).

It had really boosted sub bass OOTB, but I did a few mods to it to tone it down. It sounds very respectable now.

Modded, the KZ it probably sounds closest to is the ED9 (but like a slightly upgraded and more refined ED9).

Was it worth $25? Yeah, I’d say so (modded). Was it worth the original price (like $50)? Uhh, no way.

I don’t know too much about Tennmak IEMs other than the Crazy Cello (and also Tennmak’s awesome whirlwind/turbo eartips).

I get the impression that Tennmak is kind of lagging behind in ChiFi though. I don’t even know if they have any hybrid models, or even any current models.

2-3 years ago they were recommended on HeadFi a lot (the Pro, Piano, etc). I haven’t seen their name mentioned in quite a while. Whether that is good or bad is up to you.

Build wise (kinky and plasticy fixed cable, minimal strain reliefs, average 3.5mm plug, etc), it reminds me of 2014-2015 era KZs such as ZSR1, EDR1, EDR2, ED9, ATE, etc. And we all know how far ChiFi has come in that time.


----------



## 1clearhead

AncientSw0rd said:


> To my ears, I would pick AS10 for rock or vocal based or ZS7 for edm/pop. Both sound good to me though, as I could live with either one if I had to.


Do you have the Revonext QT2 to compare with the KZ ZS7? ...That's one comparison I am very interested in!


----------



## nxnje

I'm following this.



1clearhead said:


> Do you have the Revonext QT2 to compare with the KZ ZS7? ...That's one comparison I am very interested in!


----------



## AncientSw0rd

1clearhead said:


> Do you have the Revonext QT2 to compare with the KZ ZS7? ...That's one comparison I am very interested in!



I do not, sorry.


----------



## 1clearhead

AncientSw0rd said:


> I do not, sorry.


It would have been a nice comparison...thanks for replying!


----------



## Slater (Jan 14, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> ...That's one comparison I am very interested in!



I'll let you know when my ZS7 arrives


----------



## SybilLance

A pleasant mid-morning surprise delivery:










Initial impressions (with included pre-attached medium-bore ribbed core silicone tips): immediately remarkably reminiscent of the ZSN in looks, comfort and sound; after going through some songs that contain very familiar reference points and markers, their resolution, imaging and ability to deliver textures start to perceptively manifest, at a seemingly higher level than the ZSN; seems as relatively balanced, too, but more coherent.









In short what Clear essentially described as a more mature, more refined, technically more skilled ZSN upgrade. And, I might add, at approximately 2X the price.

Will have to shelve this in the meantime as I am just halfway in going through my music library with the AS06.

_Note: It has been established that CCA is the sister company of KZ. In the interests, and for purposes of, inclusion and continuity, I deemed it appropriate to post this here. _


----------



## Terran Earthson

SybilLance said:


> A pleasant mid-morning surprise delivery:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At 2x the price, is that a positive or a negative remark towards c10?


----------



## SybilLance

Inasmuch as those are my initial impressions of the CCA C10 that statement is given as a straight FYI, with neither positive nor negative connotations or subtexts. I'm afraid with my ears full with the AS06 at the moment it will take me well into next month, perhaps even later, to start listening to the the C10 and to add contextual value to said statement.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> I can make that comparison once my ZS7 arrives.
> 
> I will have to compare to the Revonext QT2*S* though. I hope that's OK?
> 
> ...


Wow!...I did not know that!  ...thanks for the heads-up!

I must have skipped where it was mentioned that the "S" version is original to the company. I thought it was "S" for sharp, or similar to T2 PRO.  Then, that means I have fakes!  Nooooooooooo!!! 

Thanks again, Slater! I'll try to remember to mention it with an "S" next time. 


Cheers!


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> A pleasant mid-morning surprise delivery:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice PIC's!


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> Nice PIC's!


Taken by my cousin (who's much better at it) using my iPhone. But thanks!


----------



## CoiL

antdroid said:


> I think what @CoiL is trying to say is a phrase commonly used as "stuck in mid-fi hell." haha. Which a lot of people tend to be at or in this case maybe "budget hell". Some people choose to be as a hobbyist or fan, and that's okay. If you really are searching for the higher quality, you should consider that all your $20-70 budget purchases could have been pooled together to get something in the $200-500 range which in general can be a natural clear step above. But you should only go there if budget allows, and you know generally what you like.
> 
> For my personal journey, I started off on budget stuff for a short time, then moved up to mid-fi and stayed there for too long, before just going out and getting $500-$1000 stuff after demoing and reading a lot on it and I am super happy with my current collection of headphones which is quite smaller than what I had before but each individual one matches my tastes, provides (IMHO) better quality sound reproduction and quality build, and gets used more often. In general, I find greater value in say my Focal Elex and Elegia than I ever did with my KZ or Tin Audio.
> 
> ...


Got words out of my mouth! 
That what I was trying to say!


----------



## antdroid (Jan 14, 2019)

I posted a joint review of the KZ ZSN and the KZ AS06 on my site:

https://www.antdroid.net/2019/01/reviews-of-knowledge-zenith-zsn-and-as06.html

I'm going against the trend on the AS06 here....


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jan 14, 2019)

https://preference-test.sonarworks.com/

sound preference test

tested on my gear and I got a flat graph (with a slight mid 4db bump), as expected


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 14, 2019)

antdroid said:


> I posted a joint review of the KZ ZSN and the KZ AS06 on my site:
> 
> https://www.antdroid.net/2019/01/reviews-of-knowledge-zenith-zsn-and-as06.html?m=1
> 
> I'm going against the trend on the AS06 here....



Nice comparative review, thanks.

Indeed at first there seemed to be something going on with the mids of the AS06. With certain tracks these seemed to have receded back from the sound field, while with others they seemed fine. That was why I decided to expand my music reference sample size, and to listen to my entire music library. What I mean here is listening to certain tracks in all of my albums, those ones I'm most familiar with and which I intimately know certain peculiar characteristics in particular reference points, or markers if you would, of the track. The recession is notable in voices, somewhat more frequently occurring in female than male although I've found no significant correlation as regards genre thus far (at least insofar as my musical tastes are concerned--I very seldom listen to hard rock, much less metal; I don’t listen to EDM). Among well-mastered acoustic solos or sets of stringed instruments, the recession is mild enough as to make a rather balanced presentation. It is with such music that the AS06 excels and often shines. Listening to Bach’s Cello Concertos performed by either Watkins, Isserlis or Yo-Yo Ma, or to any of Chesky’s binaural acoustic string instrument recordings is a treat.



Zerohour88 said:


> https://preference-test.sonarworks.com/
> 
> sound preference test
> 
> tested on my gear and I got a flat graph (with a slight mid 4db bump), as expected



Thanks as well, Zerohour for bringing this test to attention. Nice way of gathering music listening preference data.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SybilLance said:


> Nice comparative review, thanks.
> 
> Indeed at first there seemed to be something going on with the mids of the AS06. With certain tracks these seemed to have receded back from the sound field, while with others they seemed fine. That was why I decided to expand my music reference sample size, and to listen to my entire music library. What I mean here is listening to certain tracks in all of my albums, those ones I'm most familiar with and which I intimately know certain peculiar characteristics in particular reference points, or markers if you would, of the track. The recession is notable in voices, somewhat more frequently occurring in female than male although I've found no significant correlation as regards genre thus far (at least insofar as my musical tastes are concerned--I very seldom listen to hard rock, much less metal; I don’t listen to EDM). Among well-mastered acoustic solos or sets of stringed instruments, the recession is mild enough as to make a rather balanced presentation. It is with such music that the AS06 excels and often shines. Listening to Bach’s Cello Concertos performed by either Watkins, Isserlis or Yo-Yo Ma, or to any of Chesky’s binaural acoustic string instrument recordings is a treat.
> 
> ...


Exactly!
KZ's bass BA is really nice (just amazing to me) for the cello reproduction. (It even sounds a bit double bass-like, and I love this exaggeration )
With a bit rolled-off highs of AS10 to my taste, I miss violin sparkles sometimes. So I used Fiio 9pro to fill the gap, but now with the AS06 nicely extended highs - it will do the great job there. Since I largely listen to string quartets - I can live with viola being a bit more distant
So in my opinion, KZ got a nicely complementary products with AS10 and AS06 by their sound and price


----------



## kadas152

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just bought a Tennmak 2018 Piano IEM (ear heads only) on Aliexpress for $11.50. Mainly cause it comes with a case and extra ear tips. I also have a spare TRN MMCX cable laying around I want to put to good use. I'm also curious how Tennmak compares to my KZ's.
> 
> How do you think Tennmak's compare?


I have blue Pianos and used them for 2 years as my daily drivers. Used them mostly with Tennmak mmcx bluetooth cable. They’re pretty good. Bought them when they were recommended here and they were definitely upgrade over stock ATEs. Build quality is good and sturdy. Got them with never silver cable that doesn’t have problems with connectors as previous ones and is quite ok but nothing special. I like their compact very low profile shells. And in blue they look quite flashy with silver backplates, but very awesome in my opinion.
I am beginner in this hobby and not very good in describing sound precisely, but I will try...
Nice deep and fast bass, not overpowering, comparable with ES4. Treble can be quite harsh sometimes, not quite ZS6 but close (tried ZS6 only for short time). Vocals are good but less prominent and sound more distant then ES4. They sound pretty lively and quite detailed to me.


----------



## loomisjohnson

kadas152 said:


> I have blue Pianos and used them for 2 years as my daily drivers. Used them mostly with Tennmak mmcx bluetooth cable. They’re pretty good. Bought them when they were recommended here and they were definitely upgrade over stock ATEs. Build quality is good and sturdy. Got them with never silver cable that doesn’t have problems with connectors as previous ones and is quite ok but nothing special. I like their compact very low profile shells. And in blue they look quite flashy with silver backplates, but very awesome in my opinion.
> I am beginner in this hobby and not very good in describing sound precisely, but I will try...
> Nice deep and fast bass, not overpowering, comparable with ES4. Treble can be quite harsh sometimes, not quite ZS6 but close (tried ZS6 only for short time). Vocals are good but less prominent and sound more distant then ES4. They sound pretty lively and quite detailed to me.


i generally agree with this--i preferred the piano to the tennmak pro, which had overpowering midbass, tho neither were as good as current kzs like the zs5, zsr, etc. the cheaper tennmak dulcimer, otoh, still sounds great--crystal clear with deep, tight bass and a lot of detail


----------



## Brava210

I received my ZS7 yesterday, compared to my other 2 pair of KZ's -ZSN and ATE they sound dull flat and lifeless.
Really disappointed so Iv'e sent them back to Amazon


----------



## B9Scrambler

Brava210 said:


> I received my ZS7 yesterday, compared to my other 2 pair of KZ's -ZSN and ATE they sound dull flat and lifeless.
> Really disappointed so Iv'e sent them back to Amazon



ZS7 is only 124 CAD on Amazon.ca. What a deal!!


----------



## Luxed

B9Scrambler said:


> ZS7 is only 124 CAD on Amazon.ca. What a deal!!


51$ on AliExpress. 
Amazon is not a good source of Chinese equipment for Canadians :/


----------



## B9Scrambler

Luxed said:


> 51$ on AliExpress.
> Amazon is not a good source of Chinese equipment for Canadians :/



Oh yeah. I was just seeing what the cost was since I was surprised to hear it was selling on Amazon. Almost ordered from Miss Audio on AliExpress last night. Glad I canceled the order since it dropped from 64 CAD to 51 CAD overnight. Might try again today.


----------



## Luxed

B9Scrambler said:


> Oh yeah. I was just seeing what the cost was since I was surprised to hear it was selling on Amazon. Almost ordered from Miss Audio on AliExpress last night. Glad I canceled the order since it dropped from 64 CAD to 51 CAD overnight. Might try again today.


Good call 
My first kz (zst pro) was from Amazon for around 25$, not bad for a 1 day delivery.


----------



## antdroid

SybilLance said:


> Nice comparative review, thanks.
> 
> Indeed at first there seemed to be something going on with the mids of the AS06. With certain tracks these seemed to have receded back from the sound field, while with others they seemed fine. That was why I decided to expand my music reference sample size, and to listen to my entire music library. What I mean here is listening to certain tracks in all of my albums, those ones I'm most familiar with and which I intimately know certain peculiar characteristics in particular reference points, or markers if you would, of the track. The recession is notable in voices, somewhat more frequently occurring in female than male although I've found no significant correlation as regards genre thus far (at least insofar as my musical tastes are concerned--I very seldom listen to hard rock, much less metal; I don’t listen to EDM). Among well-mastered acoustic solos or sets of stringed instruments, the recession is mild enough as to make a rather balanced presentation. It is with such music that the AS06 excels and often shines. Listening to Bach’s Cello Concertos performed by either Watkins, Isserlis or Yo-Yo Ma, or to any of Chesky’s binaural acoustic string instrument recordings is a treat.
> 
> ...



Yes I think the bass BA used in the 06 and 10 is pretty good and the standout of both models. The mids are not so good on the 06 and better on the 10 but I find both pretty mediocre at best compared to other headphones and the ZSN. 

I only listened to a limited number of classical music and I think they do alright in those areas mostly because typically vocals either aren’t there.


----------



## Wiljen

Zs7 review is up and it does make a solid case for the best iem under $50.

Also posted to my blog - URL in signature.


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 14, 2019)

i really wish the zs7 had all BA's instead of the DD... I wanted KZ to do something of their own with the alloy shells and I thnk the zs4/zsa's look awesome... the BA10 is next level alternative but sound is the important thing, i am ok with wierd looking iem's ... but wow if it isn't unique...look, if that's their idea of design i can understand why they copy  others. .... just put it that way.


----------



## Wiljen

Having heard the ba10, as10, Zs10 before the Zs7, I am glad they went with the sub-bass dynamic.  Their dynamic is still a better sub-bass driver than their BA at this point and the Zs7 shows it.  Not saying the BA won't eventually catch and pass the dynamic, but right now the trade off of speed in the BA vs depth in the dynamic pushes me toward the dynamic.


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 14, 2019)

delete


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 14, 2019)

I trust your reviews. Thanks for your insight.  The day a Ba can move as much air as the dynamic is the day it will match it. Ba isn’t really fundamentally the ideal design for bass, so.. that may never happen unless it increases in size and then you're now going against one of the main reasons BA's were engineered which was compact footprint. 

Reason I said it was... I was hoping for a little more forward presentation. Zs6 is my favourite the only thing I wish is the low end was a little more pronounced. It’s so different from track to track though. It plays low enough I think it just gets drowned by anything above the low frequencies. If zs7 has a meatier low it will probably be the choice for me. They’re on the right track... I just felt efficiency's sake.. boosting my amp to hear lows makes highs pop. But I think once you figure the zs6 out the negatives can be worked in your favour, I like its flexibility. If zs7 responds well to eq,  I can see that being my best friend... not to say I want to use eq, it means in the instance I might need too, I don’t have to worry about it not responding well to it,  I’m rambling now, I should start reading more reviews

Your zs7 review is good. The zs7 looks like it will have what I’m looking for and your description of the zs6 is spot on.


----------



## fluteloop

@Luxed I'm seeing $38 usd. (kz-zs7)


gbrgbr said:


> Would the EDR1 be more comfortable/usable for a typical/average user?
> Difficult to know which are the original (Slater recommended  ) EDR1s on AE.



 I like the edr1/2's  think they sound much better overall than included samsung buds... for a general user they're a very good grab and go little monitor.. they feel substantial but once theyre in your ear you wont notice.. the included tension buds hold in the ear well.. (if your ear is reasonably dry..) if you're an Ear Oil harvester... you might find yourself pushing them back in every other minute... wiping your salad dressing up with a tissue before use keeps the bud secure... pro-tip... if you're out and about and don't have a tissue you can spin the bud around so the cable loops over your ear and that adds like a bit more support until you can mop up that environmental disaster inside your ear canal.


----------



## megapowa

Hello everyone. I'm wondering when the CCA C16 reviews will start appearing? 

Also: I have an AS10 and I'm wondering if I should buy a ZS7? 

I really like the AS10 and don't know if the ZS7 would be an upgrade or just slightly different.


----------



## Slater (Jan 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> I can make that comparison once my ZS7 arrives.
> 
> I will have to compare to the Revonext QT2*S* though. I hope that's OK?
> 
> ...



So an update on this.

The Admins have just informed me that in their eyes the “S” variants of the Revonext models (QT2S and QT3S) are included in the ban with the non-S models (QT2 and QT3), since the new models are directly based on their previously-banned siblings (their core DNA so to speak). As such, the S models are banned too.

The Admins have their reasons for this ruling, and I respect that regardless of whether I agree or disagree with it.

I am just the messenger. I wouldn’t recommend starting an OT discussion about whether the decision is right or wrong. Their site, their rules.

I just wanted to disseminate the Admin’s current decision, as it contradicts my original statement about the models.

As usual, I’ve updated the banned link from my signature with the latest information.

Discuss any of the affected Revonext models at your own risk.


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> i generally agree with this--i preferred the piano to the tennmak pro, which had overpowering midbass, tho neither were as good as current kzs like the zs5, zsr, etc. the cheaper tennmak dulcimer, otoh, still sounds great--crystal clear with deep, tight bass and a lot of detail



You are making me want a Dulcimer. I have never had a Tennmak.


----------



## Luxed

@fluteloop Indeed, 51$ cad would equal to 38$ usd. Good price for what these seem to be able to offer.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Slater said:


> So an update on this.
> 
> The Admins have just informed me that in their eyes the “S” variants of the models are included in with the non-S models, since the new models are directly based on a banned model (their DNA so to speak). As such, the S models are banned too.
> 
> ...



Good to know, so no Revone 

CCA IEMs are allowed around, no?


----------



## HungryPanda

CCA are ok for now


----------



## loomisjohnson

mbwilson111 said:


> You are making me want a Dulcimer. I have never had a Tennmak.


$12 on gearbest--you need it like a hole in the head, but if you skip two pints at the pub to buy it, you can rationalize the purchase.


----------



## mbwilson111

loomisjohnson said:


> $12 on gearbest--you need it like a hole in the head, but if you skip two pints at the pub to buy it, you can rationalize the purchase.



I have skipped all the pints forever.  What does that entitle me to?


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> I have skipped all the pints forever.  What does that entitle me to?




Me too, it's nothing less than a Liter for me anymore


----------



## rayliam80 (Jan 14, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> Zs7 review is up and it does make a solid case for the best iem under $50.
> 
> Also posted to my blog - URL in signature.



Your review (as well as other impressions left here) convinced me to order the ZS7. I've been reasonably satisfied with the ZS10 and the ZS6, skipped over the the AS10 and BA10. I got the ZSN but I haven't really spent that much time with it as the previous two. But I do find that the overall timbre presentation with the ZSN is, so far, the best I've heard from KZ. So hopefully this trend continues with the ZS7. I'm also glad that it's less sensitive and that it kept the regular 2 pin connector instead of the 2 pin connector on the ZSN.


----------



## Slater

Brava210 said:


> I received my ZS7 yesterday, compared to my other 2 pair of KZ's -ZSN and ATE they sound dull flat and lifeless.
> Really disappointed so Iv'e sent them back to Amazon



Ouch, that’s not good news when an ATE beats out the ZS7! Don’t get me wrong, the ATE is a solid IEM. But your ZS7 disappointment has me kind of worried...


----------



## Slater (Jan 14, 2019)

fluteloop said:


> @Luxed I'm seeing $38 usd. (kz-zs7)
> 
> 
> I like the edr1/2's  think they sound much better overall than included samsung buds... for a general user they're a very good grab and go little monitor.. they feel substantial but once theyre in your ear you wont notice.. the included tension buds hold in the ear well.. (if your ear is reasonably dry..) if you're an Ear Oil harvester... you might find yourself pushing them back in every other minute... wiping your salad dressing up with a tissue before use keeps the bud secure... pro-tip... if you're out and about and don't have a tissue you can spin the bud around so the cable loops over your ear and that adds like a bit more support until you can mop up that environmental disaster inside your ear canal.



Haha, I actually clean my ears squeaky clean every single time before using IEMs.

And yes, I know cleaning ears can cause irritation blah blah. I have personally never had a problem.

I find that cleaning it ONCE before using my IEMs results in ZERO irritation. I HAVE had severe irritation and inflammation (that lasts for days) when I DON’T pre-clean them, which causes me to repeatedly push them back in every 15 minutes due to being worked loose f/ear canal oils. The rubbing from pushing in and out is much worse IMO.

Note this is with silicone tips, not foam tips. A squeaky clean ear canal gives my silicone tips kung fu grip, and they stay put the entire listening session. Better sound, and healthier ear canals.

However, YMMV. Always consult your Dr before starting any exercise program, cleaning your ears is bad, don’t run with sharp scissors, don’t play with fire, always wear a helmet and seatbelts, don't take Zenelax if you’re taking MOI inhibitors, may cause abdominal bleeding or a rare heart condition, avoid operating heavy machinery after drinking alcohol, discontinue use if you have an allergic reaction, etc


----------



## TechnoidFR

Brava210 said:


> I received my ZS7 yesterday, compared to my other 2 pair of KZ's -ZSN and ATE they sound dull flat and lifeless.
> Really disappointed so Iv'e sent them back to Amazon




Hum..."dull flat and lifeless"? Not a problem of out of phase?

Because to say lifeless it's very very weird


----------



## Drake_Mallard

My ZS7s are arriving tommorow . Since I don't have to get foam tips to calm the treble, are there any recommended silicone tips for these?


----------



## Podster (Jan 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> Haha, I actually clean my ears squeaky clean every single time before using IEMs.
> 
> And yes, I know cleaning ears can cause irritation blah blah. I have personally never had a problem.
> 
> ...



Roger that and I usually clean every time I switch any time of the day! I use rubbing alcohol with fluffy Q-Tips, keep a bottle at work and a small one in my Outbacks console along with the little travel Q-Tip container of course rubbing A-Hol may irritate some so what works for me may not be everyone's Cup "O" Tea

@Drake_Mallard , my tip of choice are Auvio's When I got these DM6's I went through 7/8 pairs of tips and sure enough went back to Auvio's for number 9 and as usual "Amazballs"!





It's odd because sometimes I wear Med. (Blue) and other times Lg. (Green) but the Rad-Shack are the same as these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122254341395 just eSlay them!

@Slater , yes and what my mom always used on me as a kid when I had an ear ache


----------



## TechnoidFR

Drake_Mallard said:


> My ZS7s are arriving tommorow . Since I don't have to get foam tips to calm the treble, are there any recommended silicone tips for these?



No problem with treble on this zs7


----------



## Slater (Jan 14, 2019)

Podster said:


> Roger that and I usually clean every time I switch any time of the day! I use rubbing alcohol with fluffy Q-Tips, keep a bottle at work and a small one in my Outbacks console along with the little travel Q-Tip container of course rubbing A-Hol may irritate some so what works for me may not be everyone's Cup "O" Tea



Nice idea with the alcohol!

Have you ever tried hydrogen peroxide vs alcohol? I think it must break down ear wax, since it’s a primary ingredient in many ear wax cleaning products.

Man, the medical folks are gonna have a field day with this. Cleaning our ears with evil Qtips AND chemicals! Yikes haha


----------



## Drake_Mallard

TechnoidFR said:


> No problem with treble on this zs7


I know that the ZS7s do not have harsh highs and noticable siblance. I was just asking for silicone tip recommendations since all I have are foam tips that I use for my ZSN and ZS6. Should have worded my post better; sorry for the confusion.


----------



## BoZ29

Wiljen said:


> Zs7 review is up and it does make a solid case for the best iem under $50.
> 
> Also posted to my blog - URL in signature.


Thanks for this great review! You wrote everything I hoped for. As I am very satisfied with my zs6, the only disadvantage for me is the use of an equalizer to raise the bass a bit and dim the treble. No problem for me, but the holy grail is an iem that doesn’t need any adjustment because it’s just good as it is. These zs6 and probably 7 are so enjoyable that for me this is real hifi at a dream price.  Lots of euro’s more for the extra 1-10% extra sound quality is not an option for me. Just received an update the zs7 arrived at the post in the Netherlands....just a few days.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Podster said:


> Me too, it's nothing less than a Liter for me anymore



I drink everything, including water from a pint. It simply feels more natural to use a pint for any liquid rather than use a cup or a glass


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Dammit... that graph actually looks pretty OK. But I promised I won`t buy any more KZ`s and get Moondrop Kanas Pro -.-
> 
> Wiljen, can You make graph about ZS5v1 vs. IT01 vs. ZS7 ?



As promised -   The Zs7 vs the IT01


----------



## Wiljen

1clearhead said:


> I would like to see a comparison between the CCA C10, KZ ZS7, and the CCA C16
> 
> I for one, like the C10 for its comfort and great balance with no harshness or sibilance with great depth, front and wide soundstage supported by a 10mm driver for bass instead of BA!
> 
> ...



I am waiting on the CCA10 and C16.  Once I have them, I'll run the graphs.


----------



## voicemaster

Wiljen said:


> As promised -   The Zs7 vs the IT01


So what the graph tell you @CoiL ?


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> So what the graph tell you @CoiL ?



From the graph, ZS7 has a bit more sub bass and more forward mids than IT01. Treble is should sound similar.

The big unknown is sibilance. The ZS7 graph is more energetic right in that region. But the graph alone won’t say if it’s sibilant or not.

That’s how I read it. Otters may have a slightly different opinion.


----------



## antdroid

Slater said:


> From the graph, ZS7 has a bit more sub bass and more forward mids than IT01. Treble is should sound similar.
> 
> The big unknown is sibilance. The ZS7 graph is more energetic right in that region. But the graph alone won’t say if it’s sibilant or not.
> 
> That’s how I read it. Otters may have a slightly different opinion.



I have yet to listen to either of these, but I'd guess the IT01 treble would sound more pronounced due to the lower bass and more even mid response. 

I feel like I am the last person on this thread to not have heard the IT01. It looks v-shaped to me, assuming thats a raw graph and not compensated.


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> You are making me want a Dulcimer. I have never had a Tennmak.


I was thinking the same thing!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 14, 2019)

Terran Earthson said:


> At 2x the price, is that a positive or a negative remark towards c10?


I would assume the ZSN would be a "better" buy than C10 since its 50% less in cost even if the C10 sounds better.


----------



## 1clearhead

antdroid said:


> I have yet to listen to either of these, but I'd guess the IT01 treble would sound more pronounced due to the lower bass and more even mid response.
> 
> *I feel like I am the last person on this thread to not have heard the IT01*. It looks v-shaped to me, assuming thats a raw graph and not compensated.


Make that "two"...


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I would assume the ZSN would be a "better" buy than C10 since its 50% less in cost even if the C10 sounds better.



depends :

1. are you a collector that prefer many iems to complete your collections
or
2. a person with limited budget to find best value iem for daily use
or
3. you got money to spend with, looking for the best (say it under $100 or under $50) and prefer 1 great iems to many good iems

because in my case, i used to be no 1 and 2 person, but then again, i become no 3 person after some time. I realize i only listening to 2-3 my fave iems and left other iems on cupboard.
so i sold my budget iems, and i got money to buy great iem above their level and use it.

1 good iems
1 good iems
1 good iems            trade with  =   1 great iems that beat all of that good iems
1 good iems
1 good iems
1 good iems

but i know sometimes is really itchy to buy budget iems because there is a hype about it, and you dont have to spend so much money to get it, and you keep reading good reviews on head fi. POISON!! lol..
like ZS7 right now, oh no.. don t make me break my oath.

Remember this is just subjective opinion from 1 person, dont feel offended in any ways as i dont mean anything and all of us got different ways to think and enjoy about iems.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 15, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I would assume the ZSN would be a "better" buy than C10 since its 50% less in cost even if the C10 sounds better.


That depends on how one sees it... 

The C10 has a lot more better control on majority of all genres and has better front, depth, and wider soundstage, where the ZSN can feel a little conjested when too much musicality is going on. The ZSN does sound lively and fun, but the C10 sounds accurate, premium and awesome on everything else you throw at it.


----------



## de51red

Anyone having both ZS7 & C10 able to share the comparison between those two? I'm itching to get one of them while waiting for my to C16 arrive...


----------



## CoiL (Jan 15, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> As promised -   The Zs7 vs the IT01


Thanks. Looks I wouldn`t like ZS7 so much as I do my modded IT01 by that graph.
What tips did You use and what compensation?


voicemaster said:


> So what the graph tell you @CoiL ?


Read above and to answer more precisely, I need Wiljen answer to my questions.
But definitely prefer IT01 response 
ZS7 has peak-hill @ 7kHz which is "pain" for my ears and IT01 is spot on there.
2 & 4kHz peak-hills are also too prominent @ ZS7 for my hearing and add up more raised mid-bass, ZS7 is more V-shaped presentation, which I personally don`t like.
Burned-in IT01 I would describe U-shaped with clear detailed neutral-sided mids.
Modded IT01 has reduced bass area and slightly more raised highs and slightly more prominent clearer mids. Modded IT01 has absolutely no mid-bass/sub-bass bleed into midrange... with my gear and ears.

Matter of preferences also I would say. I believe many will like ZS7 though. Even I would, to certain degree.
But I know for some time now what I want from graphs and which sound signature ("downslope" signature. Also I know that I certainly prefer 1DD over hybrids (at least cheap ones) due to coherence and dynamics.
Also I have certain preferences about DD technology and shell type.
All that together - no KZ for my taste anymore and I doubt there will be for long time (if ever from KZ).

But this is all my personal subjective preferences, gear pairing, music preferences, tip selection etc.
My preferences wouldn`t suit for many either and nor are they "superior"


----------



## littleaboutiem

Anybody here from Aus had any issue buying stuff from AliExpress?


----------



## voicemaster

CoiL said:


> Thanks. Looks I wouldn`t like ZS7 so much as I do my modded IT01 by that graph.
> What tips did You use and what compensation?
> 
> Read above and to answer more precisely, I need Wiljen answer to my questions.
> ...



Then kz is not the right iem for you to consider plain and simple as their offerings are mostly v-shaped presentation. Enjoy your kanas pro.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 15, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Then kz is not the right iem for you to consider plain and simple as their offerings are mostly v-shaped presentation. Enjoy your kanas pro.


Yeap! Plain and simple said!  
Hope now many here understand what I`m talking about saving up money if You prefer certain signature or know what You would like (btw, I got my Kanas Pro for 126€ yesterday, which is INSANE value imho).
Kz is great "platform" to learn and discover what You really want from IEM and certainly some ppl will find it from within KZ family too... but for me it has outlived it`s purpose and once I got taste of greatly tuned single DD with good technical specs and musical abilities, no going back.


----------



## PhonoPhi

CoiL said:


> Yeap! Plain and simple said!
> Hope now many here understand what I`m talking about saving up money if You prefer certain signature or know what You would like (btw, I got my Kanas Pro for 126€ yesterday, which is INSANE value imho).
> Kz is great "platform" to learn and discover what You really want from IEM and certainly some ppl will find it from within KZ family too... but for me it has outlived it`s purpose and once I got taste of greatly tuned single DD with good technical specs and musical abilities, no going back.


Congratulations on your purchase and your experience gained!

To each - their own.

The learning is life-long,  preferences change


----------



## CoiL (Jan 15, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Congratulations on your purchase and your experience gained!
> The learning is life-long,  preferences change.


Agree with first one, second not.
I have found my preference and will start just enjoying music with it, instead spending endless bits of money getting new and new. I have spent my time in head-fi and other related forums long time to achieve this. In the end it`s all about music and that`s what I will be doing from now on - enjoying it! 
I already have settled down for long time with my desktop gear preferences and still do, without any itch for "better/newer gear" or lacking in SQ or sound signature.
I`m person who finds out what I really like and stick with it.
Although, we all get older and have some hear loss in the end - regarding that, in future I might have to correct&tune my gear littlebit to my hearing.


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Thanks. Looks I wouldn`t like ZS7 so much as I do my modded IT01 by that graph.
> What tips did You use and what compensation?
> 
> Read above and to answer more precisely, I need Wiljen answer to my questions.
> ...



None.  REW with a Umik-1 mic and a silicone adapter.  It is calibrated, but no compensation applied.


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Yeap! Plain and simple said!
> Hope now many here understand what I`m talking about saving up money if You prefer certain signature or know what You would like (btw, I got my Kanas Pro for 126€ yesterday, which is INSANE value imho).
> Kz is great "platform" to learn and discover what You really want from IEM and certainly some ppl will find it from within KZ family too... but for me it has outlived it`s purpose and once I got taste of greatly tuned single DD with good technical specs and musical abilities, no going back.



Wait til you hear an Empire Ears Legend X or Jerry Harvey 16.   That will ruin the hell out of most everything.  I know it did for me.


----------



## Zerohour88

Wiljen said:


> Wait til you hear an Empire Ears Legend X or Jerry Harvey 16.   That will ruin the hell out of most everything.  I know it did for me.



I'm already spoiled by the CA Andromeda and Focal Utopia

still waiting for earbuds to catch up since that's my preferred form factor now


----------



## nxnje

antdroid said:


> I have yet to listen to either of these, but I'd guess the IT01 treble would sound more pronounced due to the lower bass and more even mid response.
> 
> I feel like I am the last person on this thread to not have heard the IT01. It looks v-shaped to me, assuming thats a raw graph and not compensated.


I've never tried a IT01 too, so you're not alone.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have never heard IT01 either........


----------



## BoZ29

Well I am so happy with my zs6, I never heard better iems so far. Maybe the zs7 is better, but than it’s ok for me. Everything else I buy after that will be only out of curiosity. I always had single DD earphones, but now I am hooked to the broad soundstage of the multiple BA drivers.


----------



## CoiL

Wiljen said:


> None.  REW with a Umik-1 mic and a silicone adapter.  It is calibrated, but no compensation applied.


Thanks for info. Always like to look at RAW and without tips graphs.


Wiljen said:


> Wait til you hear an Empire Ears Legend X or Jerry Harvey 16.   That will ruin the hell out of most everything.  I know it did for me.


Don`t plan when I`m satisfied with Kanas Pro and I 99% will. 
There is always something "better" depending on source gear, amping, music styles, tips used, personal preference file format, software etc.
The keyword here is personal and if one has reached to that point (don`t matter how cheap or expensive), then this is the point where to stop and start really enjoying music 100% 


nxnje said:


> I've never tried a IT01 too, so you're not alone.





HungryPanda said:


> I have never heard IT01 either........


Well... any of You guys can have my modded IT01 with bunch of other IEMs (IT01+ES4+ZS5v1+KZ ANV+Monk++ZST+4in1+ATE) with good price as "CoiL-pack" 
Let me know if any of You are interested.


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Thanks for info. Always like to look at RAW and without tips graphs.
> 
> Don`t plan when I`m satisfied with Kanas Pro and I 99% will.
> There is always something "better" depending on source gear, amping, music styles, tips used, personal preference file format, software etc.
> ...



what is the mod?  just curious as I have a couple IT01 floating around here now.


----------



## nxnje

CoiL said:


> Thanks for info. Always like to look at RAW and without tips graphs.
> 
> Don`t plan when I`m satisfied with Kanas Pro and I 99% will.
> There is always something "better" depending on source gear, amping, music styles, tips used, personal preference file format, software etc.
> ...



Atm no money and i even live in italy so it will be very expensive.
But i feel you can find easily someone who wanna buy your zs5v1, it's a rare piece nowadays


----------



## Podster

Three different sounding setup's for less than $100 Love this hobby and oh what fun Chi-Fi is especially these days


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> I have never heard IT01 either........



You could have listened to mine anytime.  You never asked...


----------



## neo_styles

CoiL said:


> Well... any of You guys can have my modded IT01 with bunch of other IEMs (IT01+ES4+ZS5v1+KZ ANV+Monk++ZST+4in1+ATE) with good price as "CoiL-pack"
> Let me know if any of You are interested.


Might be interested, depending on what you're looking to get for them. Haven't had a chance to demo the IT01, miss my ES4 (coworker still loves it), and the rest all seem like fun ones to keep in the rotation. Really hope you love the Kanas Pro. The single-DD "dilemma" is a hard one for some people to wrap their head around, but you're right: designed properly, they're really hard to beat.


----------



## Wiljen

mbwilson111 said:


> You could have listened to mine anytime.  You never asked...



It's like directions,  a guy thing.   Seriously though, the iBasso IT0x series deserves a listen.


----------



## CoiL

nxnje said:


> Atm no money and i even live in italy so it will be very expensive.
> But i feel you can find easily someone who wanna buy your zs5v1, it's a rare piece nowadays


I`m in no hurry with selling that pack. Currently started to "fine-finish" the modded ones and soon will take pics and update my selling thread (current price is just a nr.).


neo_styles said:


> Might be interested, depending on what you're looking to get for them. Haven't had a chance to demo the IT01, miss my ES4 (coworker still loves it), and the rest all seem like fun ones to keep in the rotation. Really hope you love the Kanas Pro. The single-DD "dilemma" is a hard one for some people to wrap their head around, but you're right: designed properly, they're really hard to beat.


PM if iterested. Like I said I`m not in hurry and will update selling thread with more details and extras.

About Kanas Pro - I`m 99% sure I will like them. Have spent lot of time reading and asking questions from different places, looking at different measurement rigs graphs and also had a brief listen from another helpful person locally and I totally loved what I heard ;P The last 1% comes from: * assurement that they dont have channel imbalance (so far haven`t heard that issue with KP) * get right fit and sound after tip-rolling * benefits from amping (and survives it  ) with my modded DX5X. Also already planning to change cable jack with angled HQ Neutrik NTP3RC jack and mod Y-splitter.


----------



## Drake_Mallard

I would like to know how the ZS7 compares to the ZS5 V1 since unfortunately I have the V2.


----------



## nxnje

How would you price the ZS5v1?


CoiL said:


> I`m in no hurry with selling that pack. Currently started to "fine-finish" the modded ones and soon will take pics and update my selling thread (current price is just a nr.).
> 
> PM if iterested. Like I said I`m not in hurry and will update selling thread with more details and extras.
> 
> About Kanas Pro - I`m 99% sure I will like them. Have spent lot of time reading and asking questions from different places, looking at different measurement rigs graphs and also had a brief listen from another helpful person locally and I totally loved what I heard ;P The last 1% comes from: * assurement that they dont have channel imbalance (so far haven`t heard that issue with KP) * get right fit and sound after tip-rolling * benefits from amping (and survives it  ) with my modded DX5X. Also already planning to change cable jack with angled HQ Neutrik NTP3RC jack and mod Y-splitter.


----------



## CoiL

Please PM (all others too). I don`t want this thread filled with offtopic  

Any newer impressions @ ZS7 vs. CCA-C10 ? My co-worker got interested at those for the prices they go.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CoiL said:


> Well... any of You guys can have my modded IT01 with bunch of other IEMs (IT01+ES4+ZS5v1+KZ ANV+Monk++ZST+4in1+ATE) with good price as "CoiL-pack"
> Let me know if any of You are interested.


It's only a CoiL-pack if it includes a romantic date with you.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


> Three different sounding setup's for less than $100 Love this hobby and oh what fun Chi-Fi is especially these days


How'd you get the braided 8 core KZ cable to stay on the ZSA's ear pieces? It just falls off mine.


----------



## teus (Jan 15, 2019)

I kept looking around for better fitting IEM's... the ZS5 hurts after a while and the nozzles of the ZSR are too long. So I saw the ED16's: over the ear, removable 2-prong cable, smooth round plastic housing. The nozzles seemed shorter than the ZSR. They're smaller than most KZ's and the fit is excellent. Doesn't hurt or get in the way when I'm in bed. Stays in very nicely when cycling or at the gym. I'm glad I tried my luck again. Sound quality is good, but I wasn't too concerned with that.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Got my ZS7. Must've gotten a defective unit, cause this is far from a 5 star IEM nor is it the best KZ to date


----------



## Slater (Jan 15, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How'd you get the braided 8 core KZ cable to stay on the ZSA's ear pieces? It just falls off mine.



Anything with the “A” plug fits the ZSA.

It’s the same one that fits the ZS3, ZS3e, ZS4, ZS5, and ZS6.

Also, anything made for TRN fits.

So if you have a KZ cable that doesn’t fit the ZSA, that tells me your cable has a “B” end.

When the KZ 8-wire flat braided SPC cable first came out, it was *only* available with the B end. Then they became available with the A end.

I hope that helps.


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> Got my ZS7. Must've gotten a defective unit, cause this is far from a 5 star IEM nor is it the best KZ to date



I assume you checked the phase? There’s a link in my signature.

You’re now the 2nd person who says it is not good. I’m starting to get really worried now...


----------



## DynamicEars

HerrXRDS said:


> Got my ZS7. Must've gotten a defective unit, cause this is far from a 5 star IEM nor is it the best KZ to date



How do you say its bad? How do you compared to other KZs and other iems? Dont say you comparing this with TOTL iems LOL.

as @Slater said, check the phase also. maybe there is polarity issues.


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> I assume you checked the phase? There’s a link in my signature.
> 
> You’re now the 2nd person who says it is not good. I’m starting to get really worried now...



Dont worry, i got feeling this ZS7 is good after all, many of us here said its like refinement of ZS6 so i have high expectation on this also


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How'd you get the braided 8 core KZ cable to stay on the ZSA's ear pieces? It just falls off mine.



Well Slater gave you the chronological breakdown of KZ cables and that is good, I simply took a knife and gently spread those pins a little so they hold better.


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> Thanks. Looks I wouldn`t like ZS7 so much as I do my modded IT01 by that graph.
> What tips did You use and what compensation?
> 
> Read above and to answer more precisely, I need Wiljen answer to my questions.
> ...



Here is an interesting compare -  IT01 vs M6 with Vented DMG filter.


----------



## 1clearhead

So far, no KZ ZS7 being sold here in China, yet! ...I guess I'm going to have to wait on a l-o-n-g waiting list.


----------



## Natarian

1clearhead said:


> So far, no KZ ZS7 being sold here in China, yet! ...I guess I'm going to have to wait on a l-o-n-g waiting list.


That's ironic.


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> So far, no KZ ZS7 being sold here in China, yet! ...I guess I'm going to have to wait on a l-o-n-g waiting list.



That makes no sense. In every case I can ever remember, KZs have been available in China for weeks before it was available elsewhere.

I wonder what the reason is for this?


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 16, 2019)

Slater said:


> That makes no sense. In every case I can ever remember, KZs have been available in China for weeks before it was available elsewhere.
> 
> I wonder what the reason is for this?


Yup!...checked with the bosses, but did not give me no explanation to "why"?! 

EDIT: They mentioned they were only selling to overseas customers, but did not tell me if they were going to sell them later in China.


----------



## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> Yup!...checked with the bosses, but did not give me no explanation to "why"?!
> 
> EDIT: They mentioned they were only selling to overseas customers, but did not tell me if they were going to sell them later in China.



Very odd indeed!

Maybe they have some sort of plans we don’t know about yet? Maybe it has to do with the creation of CCA? Perhaps they plan to split things up somehow. 

Sort of like how Magaosi was the non-US brand, and the US brand was something else (audbos I think). I think I had that right.

In any case, I guess only KZ knows what the real reason is...


----------



## fluteloop (Jan 16, 2019)

BoZ29 said:


> Well I am so happy with my zs6, I never heard better iems so far. Maybe the zs7 is better, but than it’s ok for me. Everything else I buy after that will be only out of curiosity. I always had single DD earphones, but now I am hooked to the broad soundstage of the multiple BA drivers.




i've covered the outer (triple) grilles on my zs6 with black vinyl and  cut a little square of micro pore to sit on the two BA's in the nozzle,  sitting in the middle of them blocking half the pipe on each BA...   topped off with a tiny little ball of open cell foam thrown into the Tip Hollow in each side... what results in my instance was practically an EQ'less zs6...  bass boost and treble cut and most importantly... sibilance has pretty much completely disappeared.  in this config the sound is phenomenal. (for the price paid, essentially)  the clarity, punch, sound stage and Leisuretime listening is very.... "fun"  if I had to attribute one word to it... but it does satisfy my inner nerd with separation and transient accuracy in the upper ranges, sensitivity, ability to be driven easily (but also benefiting with more in the tank) I find amping maintains the composure better the drivers don't sound like their starving trying to play catch up and thus shrieking noise.,..

I had experimented with blocking one nozzle BA in each and then swapping the blockade, I also tried blocking with micropore at the grille instead... Both... settled on just the  tiny square inside the nozzle on top of the BA's smack bang in the middle of them blocking no more than half of each pipe on the BA's own nizzle's... That alone is my *(personal) favourite config of the 20 or so different set ups I tried. 

The foam in the Silic tips. isn't really needed... but might be welcome if you're particularly sensitive to your own models treble output... this config has been rolled out accross the 3 pairs of zs6's  I have... I took the foam out and just eq the treble down a touch, I figured less junk in the ear pieces is going to be better for me in the long run... the result is something I am more than happy with and glad to have . blocking one BA off was ok, it sounded slightly off and the problems with inconsistant sources plagued me...  the single square in the middle of the ba's is a much more balanced and consistant solution...  it does however mean you need to lever your nozzle grille off, which is done with the help of a fine hard scalpel or blade of some kind, I pick an edge where the horizontal line allows the blade to enter, I just roll it down as the blade goes in on an angle and the lever type action applies enough tension or grip on the grille you can then gently lift and it will peel off without too much issue.


----------



## BoZ29

fluteloop said:


> i've covered the outer (triple) grilles on my zs6 with black vinyl and  cut a little square of micro pore to sit on the two BA's in the nozzle,  sitting in the middle of them blocking half the pipe on each BA...   topped off with a tiny little ball of open cell foam thrown into the Tip Hollow in each side... what results in my instance was practically an EQ'less zs6...  bass boost and treble cut and most importantly... sibilance has pretty much completely disappeared.  in this config the sound is phenomenal. (for the price paid, essentially)  the clarity, punch, sound stage and Leisuretime listening is very.... "fun"  if I had to attribute one word to it... but it does satisfy my inner nerd with separation and transient accuracy in the upper ranges, sensitivity, ability to be driven easily (but also benefiting with more in the tank) I find amping maintains the composure better the drivers don't sound like their starving trying to play catch up and thus shrieking noise.,..
> 
> I had experimented with blocking one nozzle BA in each and then swapping the blockade, I also tried blocking with micropore at the grille instead... Both... settled on just the  tiny square inside the nozzle on top of the BA's smack bang in the middle of them blocking no more than half of each pipe on the BA's own nizzle's... That alone is my *(personal) favourite config of the 20 or so different set ups I tried.
> 
> The foam in the Silic tips. isn't really needed... but might be welcome if you're particularly sensitive to your own models treble output... this config has been rolled out accross the 3 pairs of zs6's  I have... I took the foam out and just eq the treble down a touch, I figured less junk in the ear pieces is going to be better for me in the long run... the result is something I am more than happy with and glad to have . blocking one BA off was ok, it sounded slightly off and the problems with inconsistant sources plagued me...  the single square in the middle of the ba's is a much more balanced and consistant solution...  it does however mean you need to lever your nozzle grille off, which is done with the help of a fine hard scalpel or blade of some kind, I pick an edge where the horizontal line allows the blade to enter, I just roll it down as the blade goes in on an angle and the lever type action applies enough tension or grip on the grille you can then gently lift and it will peel off without too much issue.


Nice job! I was thinking about something like that too. The Slater mods didn’t give me the results I was looking for. I ended up using an equalizer and that works really fine for the zs6. For me there was a also a difference between the medium and large (fake) Comply foams. The large size is much better in closing my ear channel. Then you realize that these iems are designed for use with totally closed ear channels. Never knew that one size bigger foams make such a difference in sound.


----------



## nxnje

Podster said:


> Three different sounding setup's for less than $100 Love this hobby and oh what fun Chi-Fi is especially these days



Benjie s5/AGPTEK m20
Thar DAP is WOW
I have mine always with me and absolutely can't decide if to buy a more expensive one.
That is a great little beast! Much power in a so little piece of metal.
I think i love mine and don't know if putting a little more on my budget it will be worth it.



fluteloop said:


> i've covered the outer (triple) grilles on my zs6 with black vinyl and  cut a little square of micro pore to sit on the two BA's in the nozzle,  sitting in the middle of them blocking half the pipe on each BA...   topped off with a tiny little ball of open cell foam thrown into the Tip Hollow in each side... what results in my instance was practically an EQ'less zs6...  bass boost and treble cut and most importantly... sibilance has pretty much completely disappeared.  in this config the sound is phenomenal. (for the price paid, essentially)  the clarity, punch, sound stage and Leisuretime listening is very.... "fun"  if I had to attribute one word to it... but it does satisfy my inner nerd with separation and transient accuracy in the upper ranges, sensitivity, ability to be driven easily (but also benefiting with more in the tank) I find amping maintains the composure better the drivers don't sound like their starving trying to play catch up and thus shrieking noise.,..
> 
> I had experimented with blocking one nozzle BA in each and then swapping the blockade, I also tried blocking with micropore at the grille instead... Both... settled on just the  tiny square inside the nozzle on top of the BA's smack bang in the middle of them blocking no more than half of each pipe on the BA's own nizzle's... That alone is my *(personal) favourite config of the 20 or so different set ups I tried.
> 
> The foam in the Silic tips. isn't really needed... but might be welcome if you're particularly sensitive to your own models treble output... this config has been rolled out accross the 3 pairs of zs6's  I have... I took the foam out and just eq the treble down a touch, I figured less junk in the ear pieces is going to be better for me in the long run... the result is something I am more than happy with and glad to have . blocking one BA off was ok, it sounded slightly off and the problems with inconsistant sources plagued me...  the single square in the middle of the ba's is a much more balanced and consistant solution...  it does however mean you need to lever your nozzle grille off, which is done with the help of a fine hard scalpel or blade of some kind, I pick an edge where the horizontal line allows the blade to enter, I just roll it down as the blade goes in on an angle and the lever type action applies enough tension or grip on the grille you can then gently lift and it will peel off without too much issue.


I personally liked the ZS6 just the way it was. With the right tips it sounds very dynamic and energic.
I have to say that anyway that peak in the treble can be a headache cause for many treble sensitive people here, i have friends who can't absolutely wear them as they instantly feel pain.


----------



## nxnje

BoZ29 said:


> Nice job! I was thinking about something like that too. The Slater mods didn’t give me the results I was looking for. I ended up using an equalizer and that works really fine for the zs6. For me there was a also a difference between the medium and large (fake) Comply foams. The large size is much better in closing my ear channel. Then you realize that these iems are designed for use with totally closed ear channels. Never knew that one size bigger foams make such a difference in sound.



It depends.
Considering the ZS6 is VERY tip sensitive, i would say that if you try to make more tip rolling you'll find they pump better with silicon ones, or at least, i find them more energic with silicon ones.
I'm always considering the fake foams, as i didn't like them on zs6.
They have just made my zs6 sound a bit on the dark side while the ZS6 should be a brilliance example, so it sounded "unnatural".
If you find them good, then tell me which foam tips are you buying so i can try again


----------



## Podster (Jan 16, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Benjie s5/AGPTEK m20
> Thar DAP is WOW
> I have mine always with me and absolutely can't decide if to buy a more expensive one.
> That is a great little beast! Much power in a so little piece of metal.
> ...



Well I love both my Silver and Red S5’s however I do have much better DAP’s in my Opus #1, Cayin N3 and Shanling M2 but you are right fir less than $25 the S5 is hard to beat and I’d really call it the King in that price range.

I’m not treble sensetive and for me the music lives in the Mids and Highs but will agree that tips are the most important part of not just the ZS6 but all iem’s. The other thing to keep in mind is everyone will have what I call the RIGHT TIP, what sounds good to one person may not sound the same for another even with the same tip combo! The good thing at least for me are tips are the cheapest fix of all.


----------



## nxnje

Podster said:


> Well I love both my Silver and Red S5’s however I do have much better DAP’s in my Opus #1, Cayin N3 and Shanling M2 but you are right fir less than $25 the S5 is hard to beat and I’d really call it the King in that price range.
> 
> I’m not treble sensetive and for me the music lives in the Mids and Highs but will agree that tips are the most important part of not just the ZS6 but all iem’s. The other thing to keep in mind is everyone will have what I call the RIGHT TIP, what sounds good to one person may not sound the sMe for another even with the same tip combo! The good thing at least for me are tips are the cheapest fix of all.



Regarding the ZS6, i completely agree with everything you've just written.

For the DAP, i know there are many DAPs out there that can easily beat the s5, but you have to go up with much mote money (at least triple the money).
I've heard under 100 euros there are a very few that can compete with this tiny one.


----------



## BoZ29

nxnje said:


> It depends.
> Considering the ZS6 is VERY tip sensitive, i would say that if you try to make more tip rolling you'll find they pump better with silicon ones, or at least, i find them more energic with silicon ones.
> I'm always considering the fake foams, as i didn't like them on zs6.
> They have just made my zs6 sound a bit on the dark side while the ZS6 should be a brilliance example, so it sounded "unnatural".
> If you find them good, then tell me which foam tips are you buying so i can try again


I use these in large: 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b6GBDvtm


----------



## BoZ29

Nice small comparison between the zs7 and the Campfire Andromeda:
https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.red...s/afpm44/andromedas_vs_kz_zs7/#ampf=undefined


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 18, 2019)

added  resistance of stock cables of AS06 and ZS7 to the list.
(17) kz as06 stock (braided)....................................775..797..784..811
(18) kz zs7 stock mic (braided)................................*1165*..*1133*..*1159*..814
and also another "upgrade" cable:
(50) spc 8c (gold,oyde)...........................................346..*636*..374..443

as you can see, the braided kz cable is still crap, mic version specially.
listened to as06 and zs7 for a while.
as06 is too dark for my taste. huge amount of fast punchy mid-bass. mids recessed, no upper-mids extra coloration (but also less air and sparkle), big treble roll-off. not for me.
zs7 is more balanced. huge amount of slow smoothed organic reverberating bass (mid and sub), although overall tone is brighter than as06, thanks to more upper-mids. mids look a bit less recessed than in other kzs. some upper-mids bump, and again, practically unexistent treble. you miss lot of treble details from the tracks you know, they sound so low.. but also bass detail, they sound so smooth and thick.. in many heavy bass tracks, the lows are overdone and unbearable for me.
these are my personal cons. i'm sure that many people will love these attributes.
managed to keep on zs7 for some hours. they are ok, in kz's line. probably one of the best kz.
but still prefer zs6. faster bass, and the last kz with decent highs (after taming a bit excessive peaks at 10kHz and 8kHz). i also tame mid-bass in zs6 (near 9dB!), so go figure what i should do with zs7.
edit: zs6 was popping out of my ears slowly, but was comfortable; the extra size of zs7 is enough to hurt my ears and to pop out faster.
dunno why i tried these, because know that kz signature, after zs6, is clearly not my cup of tea.
for kz signature lovers, this new iems will be a good try.
edit: cable issue, my bad


----------



## BoZ29

My zs7 arrives this afternoon. Will compare them with my zs6. Had a chat with KZ store China.
Answer to my question why they are not selling the zs7:

hello friend
ZS7 only reseller sale, just 3000pcs, once sale out, will not production any more, KZ Offical not sale it


----------



## CoiL

I remember some time ago


hakuzen said:


> added  resistance of stock cables of AS06 and ZS7 to the list.
> (17) kz as06 stock (braided)....................................775..797..784..811
> (18) kz zs7 stock mic (braided)................................*1165*..*1133*..*1159*..814
> and also another "upgrade" cable:
> ...


Yeah... thanks for honest subjective impressions. Glad I didn`t get ZS7 when I had itch.
KZ cables are crap. They look nice but most of them crap, lets be honest.


----------



## Luxed

BoZ29 said:


> My zs7 arrives this afternoon. Will compare them with my zs6. Had a chat with KZ store China.
> Answer to my question why they are not selling the zs7:
> 
> hello friend
> ZS7 only reseller sale, just 3000pcs, once sale out, will not production any more, KZ Offical not sale it


That answers our doubt on what really are the ZS7. Would this mean that they will make a v2 like the ZS5?


----------



## hakuzen

Luxed said:


> That answers our doubt on what really are the ZS7. Would this mean that they will make a v2 like the ZS5?


no. that means zs7 will be like ed16: made by petition of one reseller, and only sold by that reseller.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 16, 2019)

Slater said:


> Anything with the “A” plug fits the ZSA.
> 
> It’s the same one that fits the ZS3, ZS3e, ZS4, ZS5, and ZS6.
> 
> ...


I have the kz braided 8 core cable with the metal ends where the pins come out, not the plastic end cables you have shown. They have a blue and red line on each end to signify what side. I didn't fully realize they had other silver cables with the same quality of sound. I'll look into buying some jut I just bought three more of these cables the other day. It was a bad idea since I already have two others. I guess i could sell them to a local. Thanks for the awesome post.


----------



## SHAMuuu

BoZ29 said:


> Nice small comparison between the zs7 and the Campfire Andromeda:
> https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.red...s/afpm44/andromedas_vs_kz_zs7/#ampf=undefined



What is sad is when I watch the campfire reviews, I think it's KZ lol. Art theft! 
 I'm surprised lawsuits don't pop up left and right.
But I guess most people don't care and get "The LOOK" for like 30 bones

I met a guy on a bus once with KZ ATE, and he told me he paid $5 for it, that's how the KZ ball rolled.


----------



## SybilLance

BoZ29 said:


> Nice small comparison between the zs7 and the Campfire Andromeda:
> https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.red...s/afpm44/andromedas_vs_kz_zs7/#ampf=undefined



This is an interesting side-read, thanks.

Started out as a subjective comparison between the ~$1,500 Campfire Audio Andromeda and the ~$50 KZ ZS7 but essentially developed into a KZ discussion thread.


That KZ obviously had CA's Andromeda shell design as "inspiration" for the ZS5, ZS6 and now ZS7 is of universal cognizance among the headphone community. I think the irony was not lost on the poster, whose review btw appears to be a verbatim copy of the one found in Amazon.com by a certain Daniel James.




BoZ29 said:


> My zs7 arrives this afternoon. Will compare them with my zs6. Had a chat with KZ store China.
> Answer to my question why they are not selling the zs7:
> 
> hello friend
> ZS7 only reseller sale, just 3000pcs, once sale out, will not production any more, KZ Offical not sale it





hakuzen said:


> no. that means zs7 will be like ed16: made by petition of one reseller, and only sold by that reseller.



Hmm...this bit of info sure makes quite a punctuation on any argument in favor of the ZS7. The next question is, "Is it compelling enough for me [to convince my husband] to get [me] one?" Currently it retails for $37.40 at AliExpress on occasion of its Winter Sale.


----------



## SHAMuuu

I hate to say this, becuase i'm not a fan of copy cat designs, but the ks7 looks better. Its like these chi-fi just skipped all the R&D, cut some holes into another design.
But how many will stand up for campfire? This is a crazy game the headphone game


----------



## hakuzen

SybilLance said:


> Hmm...this bit of info sure makes quite a punctuation on any argument in favor of the ZS7. The next question is, "Is it compelling enough for me [to convince my husband] to get [me] one?" Currently it retails for $37.40 at AliExpress on occasion of its Winter Sale.


surely it is: "it's a limited edition of 3000 units. i must grab one before it runs out and becomes a myth"


----------



## BrunoC

hakuzen said:


> surely it is: "it's a limited edition of 3000 units. i must grab one before it runs out and becomes a myth"



Maybe...

But wasn't the production of the ED16 supposed to be stopped?
Well, it wasn't as the ED16 is still available everywhere, so I would take those claims with a grain of chifi salt...


----------



## BoZ29

As we know China a bit this 3000 is just the first batch. If it sells well there will be another. Interesting is the fact that a seller probably had influence in the composition of the zs7.


----------



## SHAMuuu

cool song to test those likkle KZ's


----------



## Wiljen

Drake_Mallard said:


> I would like to know how the ZS7 compares to the ZS5 V1 since unfortunately I have the V2.



I posted the FR of the three a few pages back -  Zs5v1, Zs6, Zs7   much better behaved treble on the 7.


----------



## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> added  resistance of stock cables of AS06 and ZS7 to the list.
> (17) kz as06 stock (braided)....................................775..797..784..811
> (18) kz zs7 stock mic (braided)................................*1165*..*1133*..*1159*..814
> and also another "upgrade" cable:
> ...



1.2ohms?

No wonder a few people are reporting being underwhelmed with the ZS7. I’d almost certainly bet they have the mic version...

Also, I thought ZS6 and ZS7 shells were exactly the same size? If the ZS6 fits your ears, but not the ZS7, then perhaps the shells are different after all.


----------



## SHAMuuu

No mic FTW


----------



## CoiL (Jan 16, 2019)

Imho, only good (but not great) cable that KZ has made is ZSN copper/clearPVC cable (~0.3Ohm impedance). BUT... it also has quirks:
* cable length and length from Y-splitter to 2-pin ends.
* Y-splitter and jack plastic molding - who was that "genious" who made them "so cool looking shape"? straight angles and corners all over stuck everywhere You put that cable.
* no chinc to adjust Y-point.


----------



## nxnje

BoZ29 said:


> I use these in large:
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b6GBDvtm



Thanks! Gonna try it out.


----------



## BoZ29

Slater said:


> 1.2ohms?
> 
> No wonder a few people are reporting being underwhelmed with the ZS7. I’d almost certainly bet they have the mic version...
> 
> Also, I thought ZS6 and ZS7 shells were exactly the same size? If the ZS6 fits your ears, but not the ZS7, then perhaps the shells are different after all.


The zs7 is a little wider,  1 mm. I ordered with the mic cable. Hmmm what is a beter budget cable for the zs7?


----------



## B9Scrambler

CoiL said:


> Imho, only good (but not great) cable that KZ has made is ZSN copper/clearPVC cable (~0.3Ohm impedance). BUT... it also has quirks:
> * cable length and length from Y-splitter to 2-pin ends.
> ** Y-splitter and jack plastic molding - who was that "genious" who made them "so cool looking shape"? straight angles and corners all over stuck everywhere You put that cable.*
> * no chinc to adjust Y-point.



That was V-Sonic. Can't recall the model, though I think the updated fixed cable VSD3 models had very similar jacks, and possibly y-splits. KZ introduced that hardware around the same time they the introduced V-Sonic-esque packaging (sometime around the release of the ZS5v1) which evolved into what we have now.


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## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the kz braided 8 core cable with the metal ends where the pins come out, not the plastic end cables you have shown. They have a blue and red line on each end to signify what side. I didn't fully realize they had other silver cables with the same quality of sound. I'll look into buying some jut I just bought three more of these cables the other day. It was a bad idea since I already have two others. I guess i could sell them to a local. Thanks for the awesome post.



Well, keep in mind that the A and B ends still matter, regardless of metal vs plastic ends, regardless of whether the end is molded straight or angled, regardless of how many wires are braided etc.

That photo I posted was just a marketing photo from KZ. I can post the difference of the metal-ended cables if you’re interested.

The actual difference is at the very end by the pins. It’s whitish plastic, that is AFTER the silver metal with the red and blue lines. This whitish plastic is what fits into the IEM like a key in a lock. So it is this small section of plastic that determines whether a particular cable will fit a particular IEM or not. An A cable will fit into an A or B IEM, but a B cable will only fit into a B IEM (it will not fit A IEMs). This is why I believe TRN made their cables A sized; because they are universal.

So A=A+B and B=B

I have no idea why KZ had to make 2 different sizes. It just causes confusion and problems. They could have made them all A size.

Oh well, what’s done is done


----------



## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> surely it is: "it's a limited edition of 3000 units. i must grab one before it runs out and becomes a myth"





BrunoC said:


> Maybe...
> 
> But wasn't the production of the ED16 supposed to be stopped?
> Well, it wasn't as the ED16 is still available everywhere, so I would take those claims with a grain of chifi salt...





BoZ29 said:


> As we know China a bit this 3000 is just the first batch. If it sells well there will be another. Interesting is the fact that a seller probably had influence in the composition of the zs7.



Micro Ring
ANV
ZS1 v1
ZN1 (not the mini)
HDS1
HDS2
ZS5 v1
ZST with the custom faceplates
etc etc

It does happen (eventually).

But yeah; if ZS7 ends up being a runaway success and sells well, they will just make another batch.


----------



## HerrXRDS

Slater said:


> I assume you checked the phase? There’s a link in my signature.
> 
> You’re now the 2nd person who says it is not good. I’m starting to get really worried now...



Phase is fine from the outside. Lows are OK but I heard cleaner from KZ, voices sound kind of shouty and highs are uneven. Tracks with lots of cimbals will have some notes upfront and some almost missing. And there is drive flex, lots of it, not something light like IT01 but the kind that crackles at the slightest movement. As it is, ZS6 or even ED16 are better. 
I'll have to open them when I get home to see if everything is wired right, maybe check the vent to see if I can fix the flex. Do other people get driver flex?


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## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> That was V-Sonic. Can't recall the model, though I think the updated fixed cable VSD3 models had very similar jacks, and possibly y-splits. KZ introduced that hardware around the same time they the introduced V-Sonic-esque packaging (sometime around the release of the ZS5v1) which evolved into what we have now.



Hmmm, interesting.

Coincidence?

We know other companies made (many of) KZs IEMs before they had their own factory (and probably still do). I am certain Estron is/was 1. Perhaps VSonic (or whoever may be making VSonics for _them_) is another. It’s all secret cloak and dagger stuff.

Ah, I do love me a good mystery...


----------



## Drake_Mallard (Jan 16, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the kz braided 8 core cable with the metal ends where the pins come out, not the plastic end cables you have shown. They have a blue and red line on each end to signify what side. I didn't fully realize they had other silver cables with the same quality of sound. I'll look into buying some jut I just bought three more of these cables the other day. It was a bad idea since I already have two others. I guess i could sell them to a local. Thanks for the awesome post.





Slater said:


> Well, keep in mind that the A and B ends still matter, regardless of metal vs plastic ends, regardless of whether the end is molded straight or angled, regardless of how many wires are braided etc.
> 
> That photo I posted was just a marketing photo from KZ. I can post the difference of the metal-ended cables if you’re interested.
> 
> ...



Here's an image showing how the A type cable is keyed to the KZ ZS5/6/7.





If a B type cable is used with the ZS5/6/7 the plastic end of the connector will stick out and not be flush.


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## Podster (Jan 16, 2019)

Drake_Mallard said:


> Here's an image showing how the A type cable is keyed to the KZ ZS5/6/7.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good shots Drake and showing clearly the proper connect, and I'm not sure about all those impedance measures but I've had zero sound issues with that particular KZ Tri-Braid cables in the past few years. Now my favorite and favorite sounding KZ cable (After market and even better than the ZSN cable for me is the bronze SP cable) plus I love it's length jack to yoke and yoke to shellsEven though I like this Bronze cable I think the TRN 8 core may be the best choice for all KZ's now





@nxnje , In regards to better budget players for twice the price I can say the Colorfly C3 is twice maybe even 3/4 times the Benjie S5 IMHO

As a matter a fact here is a shot of my C3 with the TFZ Series 1s before their cheap azz cable oxidized and turned neon green


----------



## darmanastartes

Can someone point out an upgrade cable for less than $40 that would fit the CCA-C10? I really hate how the faux-metal MMCX housings on KZ cables look.


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## Slater

darmanastartes said:


> Can someone point out an upgrade cable for less than $40 that would fit the CCA-C10? I really hate how the faux-metal MMCX housings on KZ cables look.



They are real metal (aluminum). Not faux anything.


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## darmanastartes

Slater said:


> They are real metal (aluminum). Not faux anything.



I didn't realize that. Still not a fan of the aesthetics 
I believe they use the B type KZ connector.


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## SybilLance

darmanastartes said:


> I didn't realize that. Still not a fan of the aesthetics
> I believe they use the B type KZ connector.


Type A for the CCA C10. The stock cable arrived with the right preformed ear hook bent out of shape so that it juts outwards when the in-ears are inserted. Tried to fix it with my hair dryer last night but the pesky ear guide sheath must have its own defense mechanism because my hair dryer started smoking as soon as I attempted waving it in the cable's general direction. 



 

Anyway I have a spare Type A SPC KZ cable on hand and...Voila!


----------



## Drake_Mallard

Is NICEHCK a no-no to mention store? Because there are some nice looking cables in their Aliexpress store.


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## Podster (Jan 16, 2019)

Here's a good question my fellow KZ followers, how do you think the ZS7 will stack up against this baby (same config 1DD & 4BA)? Even add the best 8 core you could find to it!

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/aaw-axh-universal-fit-iem?utm_placement=0&referer=PR3LLV&mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Automated Daily Promotional 2019-01-16&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Daily Promotional&utm_content=1547625562050.795267778456961352235501

I mean basically one could buy 11 ZS7's for what one pair of these AAW's cost or let's just say 10 is you add a swweet 8 core to the mix. I'm sure all the drivers are different plus the 4 way crossover but will they sound >$280 better

Not that I'm aware of Drake as a matter a fact I think there is an actual thread somewhere on here entitled his name.

@darmanastartes , I think this is a pretty nice 8 core for the money plus you can get it in several configurations and two color combos

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.267.30453c00t9D1Tg


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## drey101

darmanastartes said:


> Can someone point out an upgrade cable for less than $40 that would fit the CCA-C10? I really hate how the faux-metal MMCX housings on KZ cables look.


There's a thread listing some good quality cheap cables. Nicehck produces a nice high purity 8 core(less than 30$) and 16 core(less than $40) that seems quite good.

I discovered a new brand that I plan to buy next, quite cheap and good looking (imo) cables in aliexpress with a good price that you can order in any type of connector you want.  0.75, 0.78, MMCX, IM, A2DC, IE80

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/eZkx2Mg


----------



## maxxevv

darmanastartes said:


> Can someone point out an upgrade cable for less than $40 that would fit the CCA-C10? I really hate how the faux-metal MMCX housings on KZ cables look.



Here's a reference thread. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/


Out of the cables in that list, I use and find no. 053 to be really good. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...030.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dcEbKKR


----------



## neo_styles

darmanastartes said:


> Can someone point out an upgrade cable for less than $40 that would fit the CCA-C10? I really hate how the faux-metal MMCX housings on KZ cables look.


I think you might want to consider something like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OKC...Single-Crystal-Plated-Silver/32856695998.html

When I compare it side-by-side to the cable that came with my Noble X, they're very similar. Thicknesses are about the same, build quality is comparable.

If you're willing to bump the price up just a little bit more, this might fit better aesthetically:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/OKC...tal-Plated-Silver-and-Copper/32854364617.html

I use the second cable daily and swap it easily between any of my KZs as well as the Noble X. Braid is great, it doesn't kink or tangle, and fits just fine around the ears. Would wholeheartedly recommend.

And my wallet weeps a little bit more. Guess I'll pull the trigger on a ZS7 if it's only going to be a 3k-unit run.


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## BoZ29 (Jan 16, 2019)

HerrXRDS said:


> Phase is fine from the outside. Lows are OK but I heard cleaner from KZ, voices sound kind of shouty and highs are uneven. Tracks with lots of cimbals will have some notes upfront and some almost missing. And there is drive flex, lots of it, not something light like IT01 but the kind that crackles at the slightest movement. As it is, ZS6 or even ED16 are better.
> I'll have to open them when I get home to see if everything is wired right, maybe check the vent to see if I can fix the flex. Do other people get driver flex?


Just tested mine and they sound ok. No need for equalizing so far. John Mayers voice sounds right, better than with zs6. Bass is prominent, but I like that. Changed the cable for the one that came with the ed16, less resistance compared to the zs7 cable. I have to let them run in and test some more but first impression is ok. (I understand that a 34 euro iem is not perfect and in the same league as an iem that has a zero extra behind the 34.) For the real trained ear and experienced collector of iems this could be not the best choice, for me it’s not perfect but good enough, especially for the money.


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> They are real metal (aluminum). Not faux anything.



But in his defense they do look disproportionate when connected to the IEM and I too wish they would make those barrels about 1/2 that size rather than looking like they are designed to withstand being run over by a truck.


----------



## Slater

Drake_Mallard said:


> Is NICEHCK a no-no to mention store? Because there are some nice looking cables in their Aliexpress store.



Have a look at this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/

Just make sure any cable linked in the thread is available in the connections you need (such as if you need balanced or not, mmcx or not, etc).


----------



## TechnoidFR

I found the zs7 very phenomenal for the price !
My preferred pair with NiceHCK M6 
Soundstage is different, signature too but for this price !!! My God !


----------



## Wiljen

TechnoidFR said:


> I found the zs7 very phenomenal for the price !
> My preferred pair with NiceHCK M6
> Soundstage is different, signature too but for this price !!! My God !



Welcome to the Zs7 Fanboi club.  Population at least 2 now.


----------



## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> But in his defense they do look disproportionate when connected to the IEM and I too wish they would make those barrels about 1/2 that size rather than looking like they are designed to withstand being run over by a truck.



Yeah, I agree. They could have made the size more narrow and compact, and not so industrial looking. It reminds me of a knurled volume knob. I do like the red and blue indicator lines though.

Overall, KZ needs a little more help in the cable department. If they can up the cable game just a hair, they will really be a powerhouse.

They need to consistently do this on *all* cables, stock and upgrade:

- Stop using memory wires altogether, and switch to the soft preformed ear guides like they did on the ZSN.
- Stop using that sharp angled y-split piece that snags on everything.
- Add a chin slider (a $0.01 bead is all that’s needed).
- Stop putting the y-split so low. I don’t need it down at my waist. Especially since you’re not giving me a chin slider.
- Find a mic that has a lower impedance. The ZS7 mic cable is just too high
- Going 1 gauge thicker in wire would make a big difference. A perfect size would be the thickness of the purple ZSN wire. Or maybe the TRN 4-wire braided cables that come stock with TRN IEMs (the ones available in black color or silver color).
- Add a blue and red indicator on the end. A CLEAR microscopically sized L/R, molded onto a CLEAR plastic plug end is really hard to see. There’s lots of ways to do it. The colored dot that’s embedded inside the end of the TinAudio T2 cable. The little line in the end of the CCA cable. I’ve also seen a tiny collar on the wire that’s probably just a snip of red/blue heat shrink tubing, like this:


----------



## Drake_Mallard

I agree. KZ should use the ZSN's cable as it's standard pack in. Too bad KZ love their memory wire.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Wiljen said:


> Welcome to the Zs7 Fanboi club.  Population at least 2 now.



I said this few page ago. But on Koan - Atahensic, when arrive to  3:50 it's absolutely beautiful ! Listen it !

For this track, I prefer to M6 !


----------



## BadReligionPunk

God bless America! My effing c10s are finally in Saint Louis and to be delivered today.  Ordered the things on Dec 28. They arrived to USA on Jan 2. Passed customs on the 6th and then sat until yesterday.  Whatever.  Finally here.  I just need all 10 of them little drivers to be working and wired correctly. So far have been very lucky there.  

BTW. I know I am weird but I hate the copper wire that came with silver ZSN. It's pretty heavy and covered with stiff rubber coating.  It's also copper. A bit too bling for me personally.  Went back to brown cable on my cyan ZSN.


----------



## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> God bless America! My effing c10s are finally in Saint Louis and to be delivered today.  Ordered the things on Dec 28. They arrived to USA on Jan 2. Passed customs on the 6th and then sat until yesterday.  Whatever.  Finally here.  I just need all 10 of them little drivers to be working and wired correctly. So far have been very lucky there.
> 
> BTW. I know I am weird but I hate the copper wire that came with silver ZSN. It's pretty heavy and covered with stiff rubber coating.  It's also copper. A bit too bling for me personally.  Went back to brown cable on my cyan ZSN.



Well, I was strictly referring to the *thickness* of the purple ZSN’s wire. Not as paper thin as their original upgrade wires, and not as thick as the TRN 8-braid wires.

I love the brown colored wires. They should make them all that color!


----------



## TechnoidFR

CCA 10 Just received ! Thanks Miss Audio and CCA16 is in transit!

CCA 10 will be compared with ZS7 and ZS10 I think.

First impression after zs7 with Sonata HD USB C cable
 Tuning seems slightly different, high freafrequ, so spacial impression seems more present for this first impression. Less impsci in bass but same driver. Sub bass seems very more present. Female voice seems less natural. Treble is more agressive/present

Music : Thrill Over Fear - A Flow Mobz 
And Atahensic - Koan

So I back later, I want orgasm with ZS7 and Atahensic !


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Very odd indeed!
> 
> Maybe they have some sort of plans we don’t know about yet? Maybe it has to do with the creation of CCA? Perhaps they plan to split things up somehow.
> 
> ...



Audbos was a team that split up from Magaosi (Audbos later became Tenhz), not just different branding

as for ZS7, well, I've said it since the start, its another ED16 situation. Shouldn't be worried about production, its not like the factories in china will suddenly lose their ability to make more of them, just like the ED16. People keep buying em, they'll keep making em.


----------



## Zerohour88

also, bisonicr reviewed it, and liked it (no surprise there), "completely different from ZS6, more focused on low-mid balance" early impressions here

http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55744719.html

some internal pics that he also took (a bit more crossover than ZS6, iirc)


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Well, I was strictly referring to the *thickness* of the purple ZSN’s wire. Not as paper thin as their original upgrade wires, and not as thick as the TRN 8-braid wires.
> 
> I love the brown colored wires. They should make them all that color!



I agree.  The thickness of the wires don't bother me.  Outside of being a little bit short the trn 8 cores are good.  A little heavy but for some reason can wear without ear soreness for long long periods of time.  I also have a nice 8 core nicehck cable that came with my EBX that's really nice and is much softer.  I just wish KZ used cables like trn V20. I also bought some LE VE cables off of massdrop last year that are really soft and thin and look fantastic.  Oh well.  Small gripes.  No biggie.


----------



## Zerohour88

BadReligionPunk said:


> I agree.  The thickness of the wires don't bother me.  Outside of being a little bit short the ten 8 cores are good.  A little heavy but for some reason can wear without ear soreness for long long periods of time.  I also have a nice 8 core nicehck cable that came with my EBX that's really nice and is much softer.  I just wish KZ used cables like trn. I also bought some LE VE cables off of massdrop last year that are really soft and thin and look fantastic.  Oh well.  Small gripes.  No biggie.



the EBX cable has got to be at least half of the price of the set, its just so nice.

compared the measurements with another silver cable I had lying around (which costs $100) and its almost as low in impedance as that cable, but much better because the silver cable had a stupid flat-braid which caused it to be a bit stiff and induces some microphonics.


----------



## Slater (Jan 16, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> also, bisonicr reviewed it, and liked it (no surprise there), "completely different from ZS6, more focused on low-mid balance" early impressions here
> 
> http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55744719.html
> 
> some internal pics that he also took (a bit more crossover than ZS6, iirc)



Is this wire connected to anything? The one between the positive and negative of the 2-pin connector.

It looks like they forgot to attach it. You can even see the end of the wire is tinned...



Whoopsie!


----------



## HungryPanda

Slater said:


> Is this wire connected to anything? The one between the positive and negative of the 2-pin connector.
> 
> It looks like they forgot to attach it. You can even see the end of the wire is tinned...
> 
> ...


 looks like two wires soldered together but which ones


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jan 16, 2019)

Slater said:


> Is this wire connected to anything? The one between the positive and negative of the 2-pin connector.
> 
> It looks like they forgot to attach it. You can even see the end of the wire is tinned...
> 
> ...





HungryPanda said:


> looks like two wires soldered together but which ones



yup, looked like 2 wires being soldered together. Wires are quite long too, I suppose to make it easier to solder. And the layout of the BA does explain why there's no sibilance, they decided to not shove 2 BA down the nozzle this time.






The crossover board does remind me of the PHB





Bisonicr are usually pretty good at resolving phase issues, so he would probably notice if there was any such issues. He does love using those Acoustune double flange AET06 tho


----------



## Podster

My personal faves at the moment are the BGVP 6N 8 core and NICEHCK 16 Core, both come in all connector options and IMHO are reasonably priced for the quality I've received

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BGV...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.260.73753c00pqaySm 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...742.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.57ef4c4db1tJJD


----------



## loomisjohnson

TechnoidFR said:


> I found the zs7 very phenomenal for the price !
> My preferred pair with NiceHCK M6
> Soundstage is different, signature too but for this price !!! My God !


personally, i couldn't adjust to the form factor of the zs5/zs6, even tho they had considerable sonic merits, so i'm gonna pass on the zs7--maybe their target market is large-eared (or maybe they just need alot of real estate to cram in all those drivers), but i wish they'd slim 'em down.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> personally, i couldn't adjust to the form factor of the zs5/zs6, even tho they had considerable sonic merits, so i'm gonna pass on the zs7--maybe their target market is large-eared (or maybe they just need alot of real estate to cram in all those drivers), but i wish they'd slim 'em down.



You could always sand them down. Or is the problem the size and not the angles?


----------



## HerrXRDS

Anyone with the ZS7 willing to listen to some metal? On this track there are some airy, hi-hats throughout the song which are clear with my other IEMsbut are really washed out with ZS7, trying to figure out if there's something wrong with my set or it's just a characteristic of the ZS7.  Also, does anyone else have bad driver flex with these? I'm wandering if it's a blocked vent hole.


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> personally, i couldn't adjust to the form factor of the zs5/zs6, even tho they had considerable sonic merits, so i'm gonna pass on the zs7--maybe their target market is large-eared (or maybe they just need alot of real estate to cram in all those drivers), but i wish they'd slim 'em down.



It feels weird to say this, but the Andro-shape is actually one of the most comfy I've tried (right behind Shure's bean style). In fact, a friend complained that even the IT04's CIEM style was less comfortable than the ZS5/ZS6 (and I concur, its a bit specific, even with the insertion depth adjusted using tips)


----------



## trumpethead

1clearhead said:


> I am very, VERY tempted to get the ZS7...



Me Too.... Sigh. .. Lol


----------



## eclein

I’m also tempted but I’m waiting on TRN IM1 and saving for CCA  -C16s. I’m also interested in Magoasi K5 ProBass its called apparently. They took K5 which I’ve heard is very good and added low end to it because listeners overwhelmingly agreed it lacked or could use more. The C16 is definitely next when the cash is on hand.


----------



## TechnoidFR

HerrXRDS said:


> Anyone with the ZS7 willing to listen to some metal? On this track there are some airy, hi-hats throughout the song which are clear with my other IEMsbut are really washed out with ZS7, trying to figure out if there's something wrong with my set or it's just a characteristic of the ZS7.  Also, does anyone else have bad driver flex with these? I'm wandering if it's a blocked vent hole.




Can you explain for washed out ?

I hear loud guitar, recessed voice, clear and great soundstage
The music seems missing impact. Not truly dynamic, it's that ? I'm not really enjoy on


----------



## TechnoidFR

HerrXRDS said:


> Anyone with the ZS7 willing to listen to some metal? On this track there are some airy, hi-hats throughout the song which are clear with my other IEMsbut are really washed out with ZS7, trying to figure out if there's something wrong with my set or it's just a characteristic of the ZS7.  Also, does anyone else have bad driver flex with these? I'm wandering if it's a blocked vent hole.




Can you explain for washed out ?

I hear loud guitar, recessed voice, clear and great soundstage
The music seems missing impact. Not truly dynamic, it's that ? I'm not really enjoy on. I'll try on other métal music Tomorrow


----------



## AncientSw0rd (Jan 16, 2019)

I wish KZ would upgrade the cables that come with these. I know others have said it, but I changed out my ZS7 cable with a $30 replacement that works much better for me. Does it sound noticeably different? Not 100% sure, but I like it better. I also have to have a slider, can't do cables without a slider anymore.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> You could always sand them down. Or is the problem the size and not the angles?



You have removed the painting? Whoah, these are massive


----------



## CoiL

Zerohour88 said:


>


LOL. KZ really don`t know what they are doing sometimes! They put crossover plate right above DD back breathing hole! Stupid idea. PHB-023 has it done properly.
Also that 2-soldered together wire, that can eventually touch something else there and cause problems!


----------



## BoZ29

HerrXRDS said:


> Anyone with the ZS7 willing to listen to some metal? On this track there are some airy, hi-hats throughout the song which are clear with my other IEMsbut are really washed out with ZS7, trying to figure out if there's something wrong with my set or it's just a characteristic of the ZS7.  Also, does anyone else have bad driver flex with these? I'm wandering if it's a blocked vent hole.



Sounds real good on my zs7. Can hear al instruments and the voice is very understandable and as it should be.


----------



## barocka (Jan 17, 2019)

And finally I pulled the trigger for KZ ZS7. I hope they will look like kz zs5 v1 (Analytical, close to cold, airy sound). The C10's creamy voice is not for me.


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 18, 2019)

barocka said:


> And finally I pulled the trigger for KZ ZS7. I hope they will look like kz zs5 v1 (Analytical sound). The C10's creamy voice is not for me.


i'm afraid zs7 is more in the creamy side than zs5 v1 and zs6 (these both are thinner)..
edit: cable issue, my bad


----------



## barocka

hakuzen said:


> i'm afraid zs7 is more in the creamy side than zs5 v1 and zs6 (these both are thinner)..



 
If it doesn't look like ZS5 v1 ( Analytical, close to cold, airy sound ) I'm selling zs7.


----------



## drey101 (Jan 17, 2019)

My officemate has a newly arrived AS06, so I gave them a bit of a demo doing a short comparison with the CCA C10.

Please note one that the AS06 is almost ootb (at most less than 12 hours), while the C10 has atleast 100 hours.

Build and fit:
AS06 is bigger than the C10 so it is more noticeable in the ear. Not sure why but the C10 felt cooler in the ear. Build quality seems similar for both.

Sound differences:
AS06 is definitely darker than the C10, it has stronger midbass presence, which might bleed on some songs. It is also a bit sibilant... Quite noticeable when comparing to the almost sibilant free C10. Soundstage, I have to give it to the C10, again it's noticeably more open imo. The AS06 does sound more fun for certain songs while the C10 is just super clean all throughout so does well in any song I through at it. Mids for both seem quite similar, but the differences between lows and highs are too much that I wasn't able to notice how much of a difference they had.

Conclusions:
I might be biased, but I like the C10 more than the AS06. I've been comparing it with my Kanas Pro and BGVP DMG recently so it's not being shown lots of love, but this comparison made me realize how good it is so I will try using it more often. The AS06 is quite good, even better than the ZSN from before, and it aounds quite polished, and has good bass presence, but the C10 just sounds much cleaner and nicer in my opinion.

Added are some comparison pictures:


----------



## BoZ29

CoiL said:


> LOL. KZ really don`t know what they are doing sometimes! They put crossover plate right above DD back breathing hole! Stupid idea. PHB-023 has it done properly.
> Also that 2-soldered together wire, that can eventually touch something else there and cause problems!


Maybe that’s part of the difference in price with an Andromeda.... cheap labour, quick fabrication. If it works, it works. I am very happy with this sound for this price.


----------



## schom

drey101 said:


> My officemate has a newly arrived AS06, so I gave them a bit of a demo doing a short comparison with the CCA C10.
> 
> Please note one that the AS06 is almost ootb (at most less than 12 hours), while the C10 has atleast 100 hours.
> 
> ...



Great i ordered the C10 as an entry earphone before i order the C16. If anyone has experience with the C16 it would be great. By the way i received my Hifiman Megamini and the UI is like benjie or the onn player not as good as you would expect from a brand like Hifiman. The Soundquality is outstanding and therefore i cannot realy complain for 60€. 
The next step for me is the C16,
The last question i have is if anyone can recommend a good tuning filter earphone. Is Rockjaw equal to trinity audio?


----------



## loomisjohnson

ah, anatomy. the


Slater said:


> You could always sand them down. Or is the problem the size and not the angles?


for my anatomy, it's the size and relatively shallow insertion--something like the v80 is much more form fitting. i have the same issue with the bqeyz bq3, which is otherwise excellent


----------



## BoZ29 (Jan 17, 2019)

barocka said:


> If it doesn't look like ZS5 v1 ( Analytical, close to cold, airy sound ) I'm selling zs7.


My zs7 is very analytical and clear sounding. As I play in a band I need iems that reproduce every instrument. For me the main difference with zs6 is less piercing highs without losing the brilliance and sparkle. The vocals are a bit more pronounced. I think it’s the better version of the zs6
There’s only some noise when plugged in with no music on. Very soft rattle, pink noise. Will change the cable, but I guess it’s something in the electronics of the zs7


----------



## Zerohour88

BoZ29 said:


> Maybe that’s part of the difference in price with an Andromeda.... cheap labour, quick fabrication. If it works, it works. I am very happy with this sound for this price.



Along with quality of BA drivers, accessories, QC (sometimes), pure sound quality. Well, considering the price, its a given. 

I'd be very happy with the Ibasso IT04 at half-price if I can't afford something like the Andromeda (or the S). Yes, the Andromeda is definitely better. Is it $500 better? Diminishing return kicks in again, as usual. Of course, I'd look at qdc too at that price range (the Moondrop Blessing comes to mind). Haven't had a chance to demo any of their offerings.


----------



## SHAMuuu

Zerohour88 said:


> yup, looked like 2 wires being soldered together. Wires are quite long too, I suppose to make it easier to solder. And the layout of the BA does explain why there's no sibilance, they decided to not shove 2 BA down the nozzle this time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that hot glue on the double D's? I hope not haha. TechManZ on youtube also loves to dismantle these iems, but i wish i didn't see these images.

My 2nd set of zs10 is from a "good batch"

roll them dice


----------



## Zerohour88

SHAMuuu said:


> Is that hot glue on the double D's? I hope not haha. TechManZ on youtube also loves to dismantle these iems, but i wish i didn't see these images.
> 
> My 2nd set of zs10 is from a "good batch"
> 
> roll them dice



bottom image on the PHB? no idea, looks like it. The PHB only wired the BAs to the crossover, while the ZS7 wired all of the drivers on it (at the very least, it seems the ground is on the board and everything else is connected to it). Makes sense since the PHB copied the ZS6 layout and tuned the BA to be less sibilant. Not to mention it looks a lot more premium with the body and also the packaging.


----------



## SHAMuuu

Zerohour88 said:


> bottom image on the PHB? no idea, looks like it. The PHB only wired the BAs to the crossover, while the ZS7 wired all of the drivers on it (at the very least, it seems the ground is on the board and everything else is connected to it). Makes sense since the PHB copied the ZS6 layout and tuned the BA to be less sibilant. Not to mention it looks a lot more premium with the body and also the packaging.



Yeah it's interesting to see the differences once naked under the nice shells. 





some are clean, and some are just errr... "not up to snuff" as good ole Tyll used to say


----------



## Zerohour88

SHAMuuu said:


> Yeah it's interesting to see the differences once naked under the nice shells.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



almost temps me to get a proper solder station and get a ZS7 just to play around with the crossovers (easy access to the crossover board compared to the clean PCB look on the ZS10/AS10). Already made a DIY IEMatch for pennies instead of the 40 bux iFi charges them for.


----------



## SHAMuuu (Jan 17, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> almost temps me to get a proper solder station and get a ZS7 just to play around with the crossovers (easy access to the crossover board compared to the clean PCB look on the ZS10/AS10). Already made a DIY IEMatch for pennies instead of the 40 bux iFi charges them for.



Thats the advantage of these chi-fi iems I guess. That it can be opened up to see / experiment with. Study. I don't have the dexterity to play with the internals of an iem, but with some training maybe i can get there one day 

I really like the It01 the one gentleman modded with the wood. Looks cool.

I wonder if any others played with thin dampening foams or some dynamat. That for me would be a goal to do. Psychological gains in this game count too.


----------



## HerrXRDS

TechnoidFR said:


> Can you explain for washed out ?
> 
> I hear loud guitar, recessed voice, clear and great soundstage
> The music seems missing impact. Not truly dynamic, it's that ? I'm not really enjoy on



I'm talking about the high-hats in the 8k+ frequencies. They are almost inaudible.


TechnoidFR said:


> Can you explain for washed out ?
> 
> I hear loud guitar, recessed voice, clear and great soundstage
> The music seems missing impact. Not truly dynamic, it's that ? I'm not really enjoy on. I'll try on other métal music Tomorrow



I am talking specifically about the high-hats notes in the 8k + region. Listen to the song with another pair of IEMs. There is a constant line of airy hai-hats notes. Then listen with the ZS7. Is the same line there? Cause I can hardly hear parts of it on my ZS7.


----------



## neo_styles

Just got an email from Massdrop. Looks like they're doing a run on the Kanas Pro, for anybody interested. They're asking $155 with a late-Feb ship date. Not ideal, but figured I'd share the info.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/moondrop-kanas-pro


----------



## Podster (Jan 17, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> Just got an email from Massdrop. Looks like they're doing a run on the Kanas Pro, for anybody interested. They're asking $155 with a late-Feb ship date. Not ideal, but figured I'd share the info.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/moondrop-kanas-pro



Yeah if you can wait it's at least a $20 savings on Penon's price!

@eclein , I also have the IM1 coming and look forward to comparing notes on these Hybies

So when I say I like the KZ bronze cable this fine example of hoarding (I call it "Squirreling Away" ought to give it away) LOL


----------



## SHAMuuu (Jan 17, 2019)

Podster said:


> Yeah if you can wait it's at least a $20 savings on Penon's price!
> 
> @eclein , I also have the IM1 coming and look forward to comparing notes on these Hybies
> 
> So when I say I like the KZ bronze cable this fine example of hoarding (I call it "Squirreling Away" ought to give it away) LOL



Noice! I have to keep all my goods in clothing bins (with clothes on top) and only have a "few" cans/ iems available to the other people'e visual field who cannot understand.
I somehow convinced the misses to get me an IEM as part of my "gifts" (Valentine's day, god knows i don't want some singing bear with heart on it)  , so i could turn the "9" in my collection to a "10"


----------



## clovermau5

im looking for ks zs3E review. anyone had links? 

are this low-power source iem? i just use xiomi redmi note 3 for main gear.


----------



## Podster (Jan 17, 2019)

SHAMuuu said:


> Noice! I have to keep all my goods in clothing bins (with clothes on top) and only have a "few" cans/ iems available to the other people'e visual field who cannot understand.
> I somehow convinced the misses to get me an IEM as part of my "gifts" (Valentine's day, god knows i don't want some singing bear with heart on it)  , so i could turn the "9" in my collection to a "10"



Well I don't really care who knows about my audio issue as one could have a lot worse but I remember going from a single shoe box collection to filling one of these

https://www.containerstore.com/s/st...rage-trunk-with-wheels/12d?productId=11003505

@clovermau5 , the ZS4 is a much improved ZS3 IMPO, maybe some others can chime in but I feel the ZS4 is everything the ZS3 did not reach!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...047.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d0ERMFy


----------



## SHAMuuu (Jan 17, 2019)

Podster said:


> Well I don't really care who knows about my audio issue as one could have a lot worse but I remember going from a single shoe box collection to filling one of these
> 
> https://www.containerstore.com/s/st...rage-trunk-with-wheels/12d?productId=11003505



Trust me I want to have everything hung up on a wall, but i'm too old, tired, and my looks are going at 31 to go into the dating pool again.
I can see this weird look in the misses eyes when i mention anything like "The reason I have all of these is to hear the realistic voices of my favorite dead artists"
I usually don't get lucky
such is life man
and yeah i use bins like that, multiple stacks; mind you most are full sized cans, i have like 10 iems.


----------



## Zerohour88

SHAMuuu said:


> Thats the advantage of these chi-fi iems I guess. That it can be opened up to see / experiment with. Study. I don't have the dexterity to play with the internals of an iem, but with some training maybe i can get there one day
> 
> I really like the It01 the one gentleman modded with the wood. Looks cool.
> 
> I wonder if any others played with thin dampening foams or some dynamat. That for me would be a goal to do. Psychological gains in this game count too.



you can check out guides for modding the BlitzWolf BW-ES1 using sorbothane (maybe you can replace it with dynamat?), turning it into a quite a neutral IEM


----------



## SHAMuuu

Zerohour88 said:


> you can check out guides for modding the BlitzWolf BW-ES1 using sorbothane (maybe you can replace it with dynamat?), turning it into a quite a neutral IEM


----------



## paulindss

Evaluating the AS06 that i received by mistake from linsoul.com (it Should be other iem) 

Now i Will keep and review them.

 

At first i was impressed but right now i habe mixed feelings about the tuning choice

It is good for the price, giving my past experiences, surely.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Well I don't really care who knows about my audio issue as one could have a lot worse but I remember going from a single shoe box collection to filling one of these
> 
> https://www.containerstore.com/s/st...rage-trunk-with-wheels/12d?productId=11003505
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree, the ZS4 is good value, it's V-shaped, but somehow sounds more balanced than other cheap KZs. The treble doesn't suffer so much from nasty peaks and the mids still have some presence. It's a very entertaining IEM.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Yeah if you can wait it's at least a $20 savings on Penon's price!
> 
> @eclein , I also have the IM1 coming and look forward to comparing notes on these Hybies
> 
> So when I say I like the KZ bronze cable this fine example of hoarding (I call it "Squirreling Away" ought to give it away) LOL



I’ll bet Penon will match that price if you ask. And you won’t have to wait on Massdrop.


----------



## Slater

clovermau5 said:


> im looking for ks zs3E review. anyone had links?
> 
> are this low-power source iem? i just use xiomi redmi note 3 for main gear.



Go for it and let us know. We’ve been waiting on some people to try this.

It’s like what, $5? Go ahead and take a chance.

I’m willing to bet it’s gonna sound good, as the low end in the ZS4 sounds great and they use the exact same dynamic driver, shell, and cable.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Well I don't really care who knows about my audio issue as one could have a lot worse but I remember going from a single shoe box collection to filling one of these
> 
> https://www.containerstore.com/s/st...rage-trunk-with-wheels/12d?productId=11003505
> 
> ...



Haha, I remember those days. I had a tiny little cigar box. Now I could easily fill 5 of those red trunks (between headphones, earphones, tips, and modding supplies).

But like you said, one could have a lot worse. A friend of mine has a model train hobby. He has 2 entire rooms of his house plus a full basement dedicated to his stuff.


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 17, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> also, bisonicr reviewed it, and liked it (no surprise there), "completely different from ZS6, more focused on low-mid balance" early impressions here
> 
> http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55744719.html
> 
> some internal pics that he also took (a bit more crossover than ZS6, iirc)


isn't that smd a bit out of place?



or maybe they moved it that way to solder the cables directly on the smd extreme.. not easy work, anyway


----------



## CoiL

LOL


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> isn't that smd a bit out of place?
> 
> or maybe they moved it that way to solder the cables directly on the smd extreme.. not easy work, anyway



I saw that, but I think it’s on purpose, so the capacitor is wired in series.

I was going to check my pair once it arrives for that same configuration.


----------



## BoZ29

Slater said:


> I saw that, but I think it’s on purpose, so the capacitor is wired in series.
> 
> I was going to check my pair once it arrives for that same configuration.


I will check mine too. Just listened to the song Demons from Jacob Lee on the zs7.... wow. This KZ is special.


----------



## hakuzen

checked my unit. smd in place, and no loose cable at 2pins


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> checked my unit. smd in place, and no loose cable at 2pins



Well, someone should get a hold of bisonicr and let him know. It would be easy to resolder that capacitor back into place where it belongs.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Well, someone should get a hold of bisonicr and let him know. It would be easy to resolder that capacitor back into place where it belongs.



It'd be nice to see if the sound changes after the "fix". I'll see if I can get it done.


----------



## TechnoidFR

[QUOTE = "HerrXRDS, post: 14723646, membre: 414696"] Je parle des hauts chapeaux dans les fréquences 8k +. Ils sont presque inaudibles.


Je parle spécifiquement des notes high-hats dans la région 8k +. Écoutez la chanson avec une autre paire de IEM. Il y a une ligne constante de notes aériennes de chapeaux haï. Ensuite, écoutez avec le ZS7. La même ligne est-elle là? Parce que je peux à peine en entendre certaines parties sur mon ZS7. [/ QUOTE]

What iem do you use usually ?


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 17, 2019)

Got my C10's last night. Everything works fine. Been really lucky with that. Anyway I plugged that bad boy into my Cayin N5 and...first impressions!

https://binged.it/2FLMqwX

Then...



Overcome with emotions I hopped on my moped and went to the forest.

 

Yup!



I just saved a lot of money buying these. Now I can put all available funds into the Hiby R6 Pro fund.​


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 17, 2019)

Only bad thing I can say about C10 is that they are really heavy. When pics started flying around, I was thinking to myself, "oh God, these look pretty cheap". They look pretty cheap in stock photos and they really are not very photogenic. Nowhere as close to good looking as ZSN right? Well. In person they look fantastic. The metal faceplate is very thick, and very heavy, and looks really nice. Shocked!

Anyway, 8 hours in my ears at work today and had to take breaks every hour or so. Ears started hurting after about 40 minutes. Going to try and tip roll but I think the problem is that they sag and put weight on my antitragus. WEIRD!

I don't have the right scale to measure exact weight, but I did take some pics of C10 compared to ZSN.


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 18, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> [QUOTE = "HerrXRDS, post: 14723646, membre: 414696"] Je parle des hauts chapeaux dans les fréquences 8k +. Ils sont presque inaudibles.
> 
> 
> Je parle spécifiquement des notes high-hats dans la région 8k +. Écoutez la chanson avec une autre paire de IEM. Il y a une ligne constante de notes aériennes de chapeaux haï. Ensuite, écoutez avec le ZS7. La même ligne est-elle là? Parce que je peux à peine en entendre certaines parties sur mon ZS7. [/ QUOTE]
> ...


whatever decent treble iem you use shows what @HerrXRDS is saying.
with zs7, you miss lot of treble details which are heard using many iems: from toneking t4, magaosi k5, tinaudio t2, bqeyc kc2, kz zs5, kz zs6, and a large etc.
zs7 highs dips are bigger than zs6 highs peaks.

it's a pity, because mids are more forward than in previous kzs, the resolution and stage are good.
imo, smooth slow bass together with huge highs roll-off are the weaknesses of zs7.
edit: cable issue, my bad


----------



## Wiljen

hakuzen said:


> whatever decent treble iem you use shows what @HerrXRDS is saying.
> with zs7, you miss lot of treble details which are heard using many iems: from toneking t4, magaosi k5, tinaudio t2, bqeyc kc2, kz zs5, kz zs6, and a large etc.
> zs7 highs dips are bigger than zs6 highs peaks.
> 
> ...



I think you have to be careful as far too often extra treble energy is seen as additional detail when in fact that isnt a good barometer of detail level at all.   I find the detail level on the Zs7 to be quite good but you are correct that it does not have a lot of extra treble energy and isnt an overly bright signature.  A lot of the IEMS you listed (zs5, zs6, T2,) have enough extra treble energy to be considered fairly bright.  The K5 isnt super bright but is bass light which gives the same impression of forward treble but for a different reason.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Who was the person that said TRN cables are better than KZ? That's poppycock. I just tried my TRN 8 core golden/pee yellow cable with my KZ AS10 and it sounds like a $5 headphone. Did I connect the cable wrong? The R and L's were on the outside.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 17, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who was the person that said TRN cables are better than KZ? That's poppycock. I just tried my TRN 8 core golden/pee yellow cable with my KZ AS10 and it sounds like a $5 headphone. Did I connect the cable wrong? The R and L's were on the outside.


I can only share my impressions that I like AS10 with its stock cable (roughly 1 Ohm) more than with other lower resistance cables.
Odd impedance matching, but I follow my ears rather than measurements and recommendarions


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

PhonoPhi said:


> I can only share my impressions that I like AS10 with its stock cable (roughly 1 Ohm) more than with other lower resistance cables.
> Odd impedance matching, but I follow my ears rather than measurements and recommendarions


That stock cable works perfectly with the AS10 I believe too. It's too bad the large tips are not a perfect seal for my ears, but they're close. I hear other (non-KZ) tips slide off the nozzles of the AS10?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Anyone know the perfect spot to get 3mm silicone tips for the KZ ED7? Mine are lost in the wilderness and finding a new set is a b-tch.


----------



## drey101 (Jan 18, 2019)

New cable on CCA C10  I don't like the hooks much, but sounds pretty good and looks nice. I tried out the TRN 8 core cable before that was recommended, but it kinda made the sound loss clarity... Also the braid on the TRN wasn't tight enough for me.


----------



## SHAMuuu

Is there a KZ representative in here?

I want this as the DD driver please. 

I had no idea the Foster biocellulose mini driver 9mm is in Apple earpods. WTH? And they look good!



 



 

vented properly and everything. Isn't the zs10 10mm DD?

I am speechless. This was from more than one source.

Foster makes them in China so, .... and KZ is in China....

some company i hope sees this!


----------



## TechnoidFR

The driver showing us for zs10/zs7/CCA c10



Wiljen said:


> I think you have to be careful as far too often extra treble energy is seen as additional detail when in fact that isnt a good barometer of detail level at all.   I find the detail level on the Zs7 to be quite good but you are correct that it does not have a lot of extra treble energy and isnt an overly bright signature.  A lot of the IEMS you listed (zs5, zs6, T2,) have enough extra treble energy to be considered fairly bright.  The K5 isnt super bright but is bass light which gives the same impression of forward treble but for a different reason.



Exact. ZS7 is, for me, is very good with this configuration. ZS10 DD's is not the more speed but is a very natural and mature sound. With good BA's and good tuning you have the surprisingly ZS7 which share lot of good points of NiceHCK M6. Yesterday I took zs6 to listen them and I found them "like a toy". Absolutely not the same sound. 

ZS6 is, today, not in my preferred Iem. The perception of the good sound have changed with the new iem clearkc more mature and upgraded. 

It's common that KZ use High peak and high med or treble to add Dexte detail and bright, @Otto Motor explain that with NiceHCK M6 and as10 but the Fr graph comparison disappeared with accidental erasing of NiceHCK thread


To Back to PD i'll compare to M6 today but @Wiljen is on the good explanation I think


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 18, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> I think you have to be careful as far too often extra treble energy is seen as additional detail when in fact that isnt a good barometer of detail level at all.   I find the detail level on the Zs7 to be quite good but you are correct that it does not have a lot of extra treble energy and isnt an overly bright signature.  A lot of the IEMS you listed (zs5, zs6, T2,) have enough extra treble energy to be considered fairly bright.  The K5 isnt super bright but is bass light which gives the same impression of forward treble but for a different reason.


well, wasn't complaining about overall detail, which is decent in zs7. nor about low highs/upper mids, which contribute to that sensation of detail. in fact, they are well served of them (even female voices can be shouty sometimes).
only stated that highs extension is poor in zs7, and/or full of dips, so you miss many highs sounds which can be heard by many other iems. they barely sound in zs7, in the distance, veiled and hidden.
i'm not specially interested of tricky bumped colored low highs to get sensation of detail, but do want to hear important highs sounds or their harmonics, proper of the source recording.
also, i prefer punchy tight bass to fat slow bass. it's a matter of preferred signature. that's why zs7 are not for me.
i know that most people do want a good amount of thick bass, and also rolled off highs, so sure zs7 will fit their needs.
edit: cable issue, my bad


----------



## schom

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who was the person that said TRN cables are better than KZ? That's poppycock. I just tried my TRN 8 core golden/pee yellow cable with my KZ AS10 and it sounds like a $5 headphone. Did I connect the cable wrong? The R and L's were on the outside.



I lost my right ZSN earphone because of the TRN Cable. Go for the Opera/ Whizzer cable. My ba10 which is very heavy and uncomfortable works great with this cable.


----------



## clovermau5

im new with kz brand. suggest me good kz with low budget. im eyeing for kz zs3e , zs4 or es4 .

which one is good rounder?


----------



## kookaudio

clovermau5 said:


> im new with kz brand. suggest me good kz with low budget. im eyeing for kz zs3e , zs4 or es4 .
> 
> which one is good rounder?


I find ZSN being a very good iem, robust and good allround performer, and pricewise something really hard to beat.
Now you will find them for something like 15usd. Give them a try...


----------



## Drake_Mallard

clovermau5 said:


> im new with kz brand. suggest me good kz with low budget. im eyeing for kz zs3e , zs4 or es4 .
> 
> which one is good rounder?



I also recommend the ZSN. But your choice of KZs will depend on how sensitive you are to highs and treble.


----------



## CoiL

SHAMuuu said:


> Is there a KZ representative in here?
> 
> I want this as the DD driver please.
> 
> ...


Know it long time and have made some customs with these drivers


----------



## SHAMuuu

CoiL said:


> Know it long time and have made some customs with these drivers



Well good sir,

please share a link to this info on your mods.

Thank you


----------



## BoZ29

I opened my zs7 and the crossover board was popping up so I think when closing it touched the outer scale with vent holes. I glued a little piece of foam in the scale with ventholes so it keeps the crossover nice in place. Did it on both sides. There was also one little string of a wire that broke and was touching other pieces. I removed it. Sound is fine, I hear just a soft ticking noise so now and then when I put Spotify on hold. Not a big problem, but a little annoying.


----------



## Slater (Jan 18, 2019)

BoZ29 said:


> I opened my zs7 and the crossover board was popping up so I think when closing it touched the outer scale with vent holes. I glued a little piece of foam in the scale with ventholes so it keeps the crossover nice in place. Did it on both sides. There was also one little string of a wire that broke and was touching other pieces. I removed it. Sound is fine, I hear just a soft ticking noise so now and then when I put Spotify on hold. Not a big problem, but a little annoying.



Well done sir 

I plan on putting a small strip of kapton tape across the top of my crossover board once my ZS7 arrives. Better safe than sorry!


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> Well done sir
> 
> I plan on putting a small strip of kapton tape across the top of my crossover board once my ZS7 arrives. Better safe than sorry!


I would re-do all that PCB in different shape and smaller, and put in different location. You can do it Slater


----------



## HerrXRDS

Wiljen said:


> I think you have to be careful as far too often extra treble energy is seen as additional detail when in fact that isnt a good barometer of detail level at all.   I find the detail level on the Zs7 to be quite good but you are correct that it does not have a lot of extra treble energy and isnt an overly bright signature.  A lot of the IEMS you listed (zs5, zs6, T2,) have enough extra treble energy to be considered fairly bright.  The K5 isnt super bright but is bass light which gives the same impression of forward treble but for a different reason.



I can hear the high-hats melodic line clearly with my E5000 and that's a very bassy and dark IEM, but that's not a fair comparation cause those are $300. I've tested with some $10 DD no brand IEMs I got from Ali which are also dark and I can sill hear it. The ZS7 is definatelly brighter sounding than both as in some notes in the high registers are louder than both IEMs and some are almost missing. I don't care if it's bright or dark, if it's missing the melodic line of an instrument it's no bueno. I will get home in a few days so I can take them apart, maybe there is some wiring ****ery, but being that both channels sound the same I doubt it.


----------



## Zerohour88

the random impressions going around for the KZ ZS7 kinda shows why this is technically not an official release (not in their shops and no announcement whatsoever)

I was already wary when only a couple of shops had it (KZ don't do exclusives now, they're already big enough and don't need such)

I guess its now a matter of whose review/impressions you trust, I guess? Which is basically the point of a "review". Not that people bother to understand it as such.


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> Only bad thing I can say about C10 is that they are really heavy. When pics started flying around, I was thinking to myself, "oh God, these look pretty cheap". They look pretty cheap in stock photos and they really are not very photogenic. Nowhere as close to good looking as ZSN right? Well. In person they look fantastic. The metal faceplate is very thick, and very heavy, and looks really nice. Shocked!
> 
> Anyway, 8 hours in my ears at work today and had to take breaks every hour or so. Ears started hurting after about 40 minutes. Going to try and tip roll but I think the problem is that they sag and put weight on my antitragus. WEIRD!
> 
> I don't have the right scale to measure exact weight, but I did take some pics of C10 compared to ZSN.


what's an antitragus?


----------



## BadReligionPunk




----------



## TechnoidFR

HerrXRDS said:


> I can hear the high-hats melodic line clearly with my E5000 and that's a very bassy and dark IEM, but that's not a fair comparation cause those are $300. I've tested with some $10 DD no brand IEMs I got from Ali which are also dark and I can sill hear it. The ZS7 is definatelly brighter sounding than both as in some notes in the high registers are louder than both IEMs and some are almost missing. I don't care if it's bright or dark, if it's missing the melodic line of an instrument it's no bueno. I will get home in a few days so I can take them apart, maybe there is some wiring ****ery, but being that both channels sound the same I doubt it.




Try with As10/CCA 10/M6/ZS7 and no problem...


----------



## Delta32

I've noticed that the ZSR has dropped a lot in price. Can they still be recommended, or are there better options in chifi now, with regards to bass and isolation?

I already have a pair of zs6, so I want something better for commuting.


----------



## RyanM

Delta32 said:


> I've noticed that the ZSR has dropped a lot in price. Can they still be recommended, or are there better options in chifi now, with regards to bass and isolation?
> 
> I already have a pair of zs6, so I want something better for commuting.



If your only requirements are isolation and bass, the best option would be the ZS4, ZS3E and ZS3 shell. If you are looking at sound only, it depends on what you like, but the ZSN is potentially the best all-arounder in the $15 USD range, with good isolation as well. I don't know if it isolates better or worse than the ZS6 off the top of my head right now.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> I saw that, but I think it’s on purpose, so the capacitor is wired in series.
> 
> I was going to check my pair once it arrives for that same configuration.



I have two wires in mine that aren't connected to anything. They aren't loose and were never soldered. It's on both sides. They are hidden under the board. Very strange. Also, I never could remove the driver from ZSN for the transplant to the ZS7. It might as well have been cemented in there lol! I may try again later. 

Also, some mentioned driver flex. Mine has it on the right side. Probably due to the board blocking the vent somewhat. 

All and all, the ZS7 sounds good to me. I think most will be happy with it.


----------



## CYoung234

HerrXRDS said:


> I can hear the high-hats melodic line clearly with my E5000 and that's a very bassy and dark IEM, but that's not a fair comparation cause those are $300. I've tested with some $10 DD no brand IEMs I got from Ali which are also dark and I can sill hear it. The ZS7 is definatelly brighter sounding than both as in some notes in the high registers are louder than both IEMs and some are almost missing. I don't care if it's bright or dark, if it's missing the melodic line of an instrument it's no bueno. I will get home in a few days so I can take them apart, maybe there is some wiring ****ery, but being that both channels sound the same I doubt it.



High-hats melodic line??? Can you explain more clearly what you are talking about? A high-hat is not melodic at all..


----------



## HerrXRDS (Jan 18, 2019)

CYoung234 said:


> High-hats melodic line??? Can you explain more clearly what you are talking about? A high-hat is not melodic at all..



A song has notes. You listen to a song, hear the notes and you can reproduce it. Can you reproduce the song's cimbal notes from what you hear on zs7?


----------



## BoZ29

For everyone who has a zs7, try some songs from the German jazzband Re:jazz. There recordings are great, detailed and pure. My zs7 shines, all details are there and the greatest gift, the vocals are prominent, clear without a single trace of sharpness. My compliments go out to the Chinese Reseller that ordered this configuration.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Don't understand the huge split with KZ and CCA cables but here is what I do. 
I have quite a few of those velcro cable ties that are velcro on one side and hook on the other.  They come with some items,  but are sold at most every store for cheap.  

Anyway.  Cut em into small strips and roll em tight around the cable.  Viola.  Cable cinch


----------



## Slater (Jan 18, 2019)

sino8r said:


> I have two wires in mine that aren't connected to anything. They aren't loose and were never soldered. It's on both sides. They are hidden under the board. Very strange. Also, I never could remove the driver from ZSN for the transplant to the ZS7. It might as well have been cemented in there lol! I may try again later.
> 
> Also, some mentioned driver flex. Mine has it on the right side. Probably due to the board blocking the vent somewhat.
> 
> All and all, the ZS7 sounds good to me. I think most will be happy with it.



I KNEW that 1 wire in bisonicr’s photo looked like it wasn’t connected to anything!

This backs it up with more evidence.

Also, most of the people I’ve seen have to nibble/cut away the plastic shell (a little bit at a time) to extract the KZ drivers. There’s no way to just cleanly remove them from the glue.


----------



## Ynot1

Z said in his video the joint tugs when turning side to side. Z talks people listen apparently.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> I KNEW that 1 wire in bisonicr’s photo looked like it wasn’t connected to anything!
> 
> This backs it up with more evidence.
> 
> Also, most of the people I’ve seen have to nibble/cut away the plastic shell (a little bit at a time) to extract the KZ drivers. There’s no way to just cleanly remove them from the glue.



Yeah, it's definitely intentional. Just weird. 


Well, that will work. I'll just crack the shell. I'll post the results when I get back to it.


----------



## eggnogg

*taobao
hands on w/ CCA C16 


Spoiler: [][]


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Yeah, it's definitely intentional. Just weird.
> 
> 
> Well, that will work. I'll just crack the shell. I'll post the results when I get back to it.



Nah, it is almost 99.99% certain that a wire that is not connected and flopping around loose is unintentional. Otherwise, we’d see it all the time in electronics haha

If it was totally unnecessary, it would have been easier to just omit it altogether. Or to protect the bare end with tape. Or secure the loose wire out of the way so it doesn’t short anything.

We already know KZ has a longtime history of some QC issues here and there. The fact that bisonicr’s capacitor isn’t even soldered to the pad on 1 side, yet it is on other people’s ZS7, is proof of these wiring issues being a QC goof up.


----------



## Zerohour88

eggnogg said:


> *taobao
> hands on w/ CCA C16
> 
> 
> Spoiler: [][]



found the comment you mentioned, here's the google-translated version:

"Received 16 crashes at noon until now. Just opening the sound is quite good! The details are very good. Now it sounds like the low frequency is no different from the moving circle, so good! High-frequency transparency, rich details, fine analysis, very satisfied! The mid-range vocals are very good performance, and the audition, male voice and female voice are perfect interpretations! Tri-band balance, no short board, the connection is very smooth, the human voice is surrounded by instrumental music, the integration is very good! I don't like the vocals too prominent, so it's not balanced! Listening to individual female voices still has tooth sounds. Shape, wire are satisfied! Although the earplug cavity is relatively large, it is very comfortable to wear and does not hurt. My ears are a bit small, I feel that this pair of earplugs is right! very satisfied! In short, this earplug is still very complete! I am very satisfied!"

to be fair, most comments on it has been quite positive, which goes for most of the new releases. Some mentioned it being better than BA10 (in what way, I have no idea).

oh, and for people who love to parrot "you can't just cram more drivers in, tuning is everything" like a secret sagely advice known only to monks of head-fi, a guy on taobao also commented this:

"The first feeling is balance, transparency, high resolution, really can't compare, one is scared. The same model unit, just three more units per side, there will be such a big gap! Unexpectedly, it is certainly not as simple as a few more units. The cavity structure, the conduit, the frequency dividing circuit, etc. must be optimized for design."


----------



## AncientSw0rd

Zerohour88 said:


> the random impressions going around for the KZ ZS7 kinda shows why this is technically not an official release (not in their shops and no announcement whatsoever)
> 
> I was already wary when only a couple of shops had it (KZ don't do exclusives now, they're already big enough and don't need such)
> 
> I guess its now a matter of whose review/impressions you trust, I guess? Which is basically the point of a "review". Not that people bother to understand it as such.



I wonder if the guys who don't like these ended up getting ones with quality control issues?


----------



## Slater

AncientSw0rd said:


> I wonder if the guys who don't like these ended up getting ones with quality control issues?



That’s definitely what I’m thinking...


----------



## Zerohour88

AncientSw0rd said:


> I wonder if the guys who don't like these ended up getting ones with quality control issues?



it can even be the other way around, that the QC issues changed sound sig for the better

at this point, unless you try it yourself and compare with someone you trust or have similar hearing aptitude and preference, then opened it up to see what kind of config you each had, not really that easy to verify.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I'm just going to slowly back away from ZS7. She seems a bit unraveled.

Besides, C10 is my boo now. We finna ride till the wheels fall off, or at least until I get a HiBy R6 Pro. Or until my ears get itchy for some strange...


----------



## hakuzen

AncientSw0rd said:


> I wonder if the guys who don't like these ended up getting ones with quality control issues?





Slater said:


> That’s definitely what I’m thinking...


was starting to measure ZS7 FR/distortion/sensitivity/impedance, and found that the cable i was using is defective. couldn't figure it before, because its resistance measured ok. it's the second defective expensive cable (plus 2 wrong cables) i receive from the same seller (avoid, you all know which seller i refer to).

my bad, my sincere apologies to all you. i'm going to edit my previous posts asap.
now, using a proper cable, i can hear highs properly, but also bass is punchier. superb.
will post full measurements using new accurate calibration of my rig IEC 16384-4 (IEC 60711) asap to redeem myself a bit.
sorry.


----------



## schom

i know it is too early. but before i spent my money on the cca c16 ( i own the ba10 and the cca c10) is the cca c16 a good upgrade?
is it high end stuff?


----------



## HungryPanda

schom said:


> i know it is too early. but before i spent my money on the cca c16 ( i own the ba10 and the cca c10) is the cca c16 a good upgrade?
> is it high end stuff?


Only one way to find out


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 18, 2019)

schom said:


> i know it is too early. but before i spent my money on the cca c16 ( i own the ba10 and the cca c10) is the cca c16 a good upgrade?
> is it high end stuff?





schom said:


> for me the kz ba10 is a very good earphone - the best i owned so far. i have no problem with the fit and it have a better noise isolation than my 1 more triple driver.
> i cannot understand why people dislike them just because of the fit.
> KZ offers them with the wrong cable that is the problem.




Thanks for chiming in regarding the current TOTL KZ (CCA) models. Because very few participants have both the C10 and the BA10 could you please share your thoughts on the C10 and BA10. Any information and/or comparisons will assist in giving give us all a more clear picture of what these models offer. Again, any information will be much appreciated. 





hakuzen said:


> well, wasn't complaining about overall detail, which is decent in zs7. nor about low highs/upper mids, which contribute to that sensation of detail. in fact, they are well served of them (even female voices can be shouty sometimes).
> only stated that highs extension is poor in zs7, and/or full of dips, so you miss many highs sounds which can be heard by many other iems. they barely sound in zs7, in the distance, veiled and hidden.
> i'm not specially interested of tricky bumped colored low highs to get sensation of detail, but do want to hear important highs sounds or their harmonics, proper of the source recording.
> also, i prefer punchy tight bass to fat slow bass. it's a matter of preferred signature. that's why zs7 are not for me.
> ...



Thanks for the feedback, follow-up and determination to inform us, hakuzen. 

Again, much appreciated.


Feedback always keeps things interesting.


----------



## schom (Jan 18, 2019)

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for chiming in regarding the current TOTL KZ (CCA) models. Because very few participants have both the C10 and the BA10 could you please share your thoughts on the C10 and BA10. Any information and/or comparisons will assist in giving give us all a more clear picture. Much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback, follow-up and determination to inform us.


iam sorry but iam not an audiophile to give a good description. iam just hearing classical music and therefore i can say that both are very detailed regarding instruments.
the ba10 have an above average isolation and is also very detailed and the ba10 is extreme powerful (very loud). The c10 is more for fun. i have tested both with the benjie s5, the hifiman megamini and the hiby r3.
The ba10 is the best earphone i have bought so far. but you need a good cable because is uncomfortable. again iam not an audiophile and thus not an expert. also iam not english native speaker. I hope that i can help.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> Nah, it is almost 99.99% certain that a wire that is not connected and flopping around loose is unintentional. Otherwise, we’d see it all the time in electronics haha
> 
> If it was totally unnecessary, it would have been easier to just omit it altogether. Or to protect the bare end with tape. Or secure the loose wire out of the way so it doesn’t short anything.
> 
> We already know KZ has a longtime history of some QC issues here and there. The fact that bisonicr’s capacitor isn’t even soldered to the pad on 1 side, yet it is on other people’s ZS7, is proof of these wiring issues being a QC goof up.



It's two wires on each side of mine. They clearly weren't even attempting to solder them. It's quite a rat's nest of wires under the board. I wonder if some change was made during assembly to fix something? Either way, it does sound really good and full so I can't complain. Let me open mine again and and I'll take some pictures. I'll do it this weekend sometime... I want to fix that driver flex anyways


----------



## schom (Jan 18, 2019)

I own the macaw gt600s and after 1 hour they  are unbearable. I had the same problems with the ba10. I solve this problem with a better cable. If you want more impressions regarding the sound quality iam the wrong guy. I only listening to classical music and therefore iam not an audiophile.


----------



## SybilLance

BadReligionPunk said:


> Got my C10's last night...​
> *Overcome with emotions I hopped on my moped and went to the forest.*


I'm really envious of everything in your simple statement. Wish I could do that with my C10 and listen to Ana Caram's _Correnteza...

_

As consolation, I scrolled to my collection of Game of Thrones Music From the HBO Series, all 7 seasons and lay on the couch and with the C10, listened...



_Valar Morghulis._


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Overcome with emotions I hopped on my moped and went to the forest.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Tonight I had to jump in my beetle and drive to the nearest abandoned warehouse and just let loose.  How dare the preacher man tell me that C10 is immoral.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Tonight I had to jump in my beetle and drive to the nearest abandoned warehouse and just let loose.  How dare the preacher man tell me that C10 is immoral


----------



## SybilLance

Slater said:


>


This, too!


----------



## kadas152

hakuzen said:


> was starting to measure ZS7 FR/distortion/sensitivity/impedance, and found that the cable i was using is defective. couldn't figure it before, because its resistance measured ok. it's the second defective expensive cable (plus 2 wrong cables) i receive from the same seller (avoid, you all know which seller i refer to)...


What was the problem with cable? And how have you identified it?


----------



## PhonoPhi

schom said:


> I own the macaw gt600s and after 1 hour they  are unbearable. I had the same problems with the ba10. I solve this problem with a better cable. If you want more impressions regarding the sound quality iam the wrong guy. I only listening to classical music and therefore iam not an audiophile.


Symphonic recordings have all the piercing highs and gushing lows, and incredible density of multiple instruments - can be most challenging for audiophiles and alike 

I listen to classical music, and AS10 (close relative of BA10) is currently my favourite by far. (Sonically GT600s pro was very nice as well, minus its non-sonic problems).

What better cables worked for you?
(For me, strangely AS10 sounds best with its stock cable; similarly IEmatch makes AS10 sound more even, but less fun).


----------



## Zerohour88

hakuzen said:


> was starting to measure ZS7 FR/distortion/sensitivity/impedance, and found that the cable i was using is defective. couldn't figure it before, because its resistance measured ok. it's the second defective expensive cable (plus 2 wrong cables) i receive from the same seller (avoid, you all know which seller i refer to).



which seller? does it start with W and ends with easy? Thinking of ordering a 2-pin cable (for MD+) and want to know if the seller might have any such issues


----------



## hakuzen

Zerohour88 said:


> which seller? does it start with W and ends with easy? Thinking of ordering a 2-pin cable (for MD+) and want to know if the seller might have any such issues


yes, and it includes his 3 shops.
about cable 125 of my list, got 2 units ok and 1 unit with broken solders; about cable 131, got 2 wrong cables (i ended keeping one of them, returned the other one) and 1 defective (the one i was using with zs7). a nightmare to deal with him if any issue.
in the case of cable 131, which shares same wire than 130 and 132, 130 has got better plugs, better conductivity, and includes a chin slider.


----------



## hakuzen

kadas152 said:


> What was the problem with cable? And how have you identified it?


resistance measured ok (a bit higher than expected, but right enough).
while calibrating to measure FR, using a SPL meter, noticed that right channel wasn't reacting to volume pot as it should (attenuated), and the test frequency (1kHz) was sounding like a 3kHz sound.
don't know the cause yet, i'll have to locate where is the issue (mmcx plugs, or jack), take it apart, and see.. when i get time for it.


----------



## Zerohour88

hakuzen said:


> yes, and it includes his 3 shops.
> about cable 125 of my list, got 2 units ok and 1 unit with broken solders; about cable 131, got 2 wrong cables (i ended keeping one of them, returned the other one) and 1 defective (the one i was using with zs7). a nightmare to deal with him if any issue.
> in the case of cable 131, which shares same wire than 130 and 132, 130 has got better plugs, better conductivity, and includes a chin slider.



gotcha, I'll order from NiceHCK then. Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## Wiljen

hakuzen said:


> resistance measured ok (a bit higher than expected, but right enough).
> while calibrating to measure FR, using a SPL meter, noticed that right channel wasn't reacting to volume pot as it should (attenuated), and the test frequency (1kHz) was sounding like a 3kHz sound.
> don't know the cause yet, i'll have to locate where is the issue (mmcx plugs, or jack), take it apart, and see.. when i get time for it.



That would account for a lack of detail in the highs it one channel wasnt producing them correctly.  Glad to know our opinions of them may not be as different as it originally sounded like they were.  Sorry you are having mechanical problems though, that's no fun to sort out.


----------



## mbwilson111

schom said:


> I lost my right ZSN earphone because of the TRN Cable. Go for the Opera/ Whizzer cable. My ba10 which is very heavy and uncomfortable works great with this cable.



Are people still talking about the ZSN?  If so, someone showed me a link for a cable that is made for the ZSN type connector.  Ordered the balanced option a few days ago but there is also a regular 3.5mm option.  It does cost as much as the ZSN itself.  I hope it will be worth it.  I plan to use my second pair (cyan) balanced and keep my purple pair with the beautiful stock cable.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/1938884_32965501955.html


----------



## Podster (Jan 19, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> gotcha, I'll order from NiceHCK then. Thanks for the heads-up.



Not to throw a wrench into your plans but I recently received a bad 8 core form NICE (right channel was bad on the red/silver one) that I ordered together with his nice M6. Now mind you Jim is making good and sending me a replacement but as I told him they should test every expensive cable they ship especially if his logo is going to be on the barrels! I’m sure many of these cables are being mass produced now and then some shops work a deal to have their logi printed on them but still they should test before shipping.


----------



## Zerohour88

mbwilson111 said:


> Are people still talking about the ZSN?  If so, someone showed me a link for a cable that is made for the ZSN type connector.  Ordered the balanced option a few days ago but there is also a regular 3.5mm option.  It does cost as much as the ZSN itself.  I hope it will be worth it.  I plan to use my second pair (cyan) balanced and keep my purple pair with the beautiful stock cable.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/1938884_32965501955.html



sadly I think not a lot of models using that form factor outside qdc (and their cheapest entry level IEM is the usd$200 Neptune, IIRC)



Podster said:


> Not to throw a wrench into your plans but I recently received a bad 8 core form NICE (right channel was bad on the red/silver one) that I ordered together with his nice M6. Now mind you Jim is making good and sending me a replacement but as I told him they should test every expensive cable they ship especially if his logo is going to be on the barrels! I’m sure many of these cables are being mass produced now and then some shops work a deal to have their logi printed on them but still they should test before shipping.



hm...basically its a toss-up now, lol. To be fair, I haven't actually gotten any defective/QC issues on either seller, so hopefully that continues.

both seller have really nice cables though


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> sadly I think not a lot of models using that form factor outside qdc (and their cheapest entry level IEM is the usd$200 Neptune, IIRC)



Ultimate Ears


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Conest said:


> ZSN after 100hr+ burn in..


It is an understatement!


----------



## BoZ29

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Hmm. I didn't  notice the average SS but you might be right. I love how they sound like you're watching a band live.
> 
> The ED16 kills live ticket sales! Who needs to pay $50 for a concert ticket anymore? Especially when some artists use computers and lyp synching to fine tune the live sound that may be common, so you never know who does it. I miss the simple old days when music wasnt made with computers but the sound quality wasnt as good then so its a trade off.
> 
> But you're right, they sound great. So anyone here who doesn't have an ED16, go buy one! It was considered a must buy in 2017 11/11's sales.


My ed16 is my favorite running mate. With bluetooth cable and some equalization this is a nice mate, but without equalization it’s too much highs for my ears.


----------



## TechnoidFR

My French Twitter review. The translate should be ok to understand
https://twitter.com/Chifi_Fr/status/1086667645791977473?s=19

I love them ! But cca 10 can be a very good alternative. I don't compare them for the moment. 

I saw that zs7 have same 4 ba than as10. And ba of zs10
And cca C10 exactly same hardware than zs10 but PCB and intern arrangement are different. The tuning is totally different, like a hardware correction.


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> sadly I think not a lot of models using that form factor outside qdc (and their cheapest entry level IEM is the usd$200 Neptune, IIRC)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutel as I should have mentioned I’ve gotten some other nice 8 & 16 cores from both


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Finally ordered C10s for $26 from AE official store. Was really confused between ZS7, ZS10 and AS06 but was swayed by the notion of how much ZSNs can be evolved. Should get them in 2-3 weeks.


----------



## sino8r (Jan 19, 2019)

Okay, I tried to get some up close pics of the mysterious unsoldered wire in each of our KZ ZS7s. I've circled them here in blue. And I have no idea where they go. Maybe someone who's built iems before can identify the correct location. I do want to reiterate that these sound fantastic (and despite QC problem and all) are a large improvement over the ZS6. I'd say they sound as good as the AS10/BA10 with a improvement in the sub bass only dynamics can produce. BUT... The ZSN and ZS6 might be slightly stronger in sub bass department. So, in conclusion, the ZS7 comes close to perfection but isn't quite there at 100%. I guess we'll still be chasing the dragon

Maybe the 8 sided BA will do the trick?










The last two shows closeups of the board and side soldering points


----------



## BoZ29

I am super happy with the zs7. It’s just incredible how they sound. As my wife’s a singer, her voice is just right as it is in real life, very realistic, direct and accurate. In songs the vocals are a bit more forward, but I am used to this as my Kef ls50’s has the same sound signature.


----------



## TechnoidFR

It's so awesome this zs7


----------



## schom (Jan 19, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Symphonic recordings have all the piercing highs and gushing lows, and incredible density of multiple instruments - can be most challenging for audiophiles and alike
> 
> I listen to classical music, and AS10 (close relative of BA10) is currently my favourite by far. (Sonically GT600s pro was very nice as well, minus its non-sonic problems).
> 
> ...



I have small ear and wearing this is a bad combo for thick cables. therefore i need a thin cable and after a while i ordered the opera factory /whizzer upgrade cable and it works for my ba10.
therefore it must work for the as10.
if you have small ears go for this cable. the other thing is you need good eartips. my own experience is that silicone tips are better than foam tips.
i ask for the cca c16 because of its price. many of us don`t have the money for high-end gear. 100 USD is affordable - even 200 USD but then there is a limit.
Second thing is that many high priced touch screen players like the hiby r3 sucks. that is my personal opinion. i have a flickering problem with my hiby r3 and it doesnt offer gapless playback. for example my benjie s5 works without these problems. therefore i wont spend 200 USD again for a lossless player. everything regarding touchscreen which cames after apple sucks.
iam very very disappointed with my hiby r3.
i was going to order the new hidizs player. but after realize that is have the same system like hiby i cannot recommend it. but again this is my personal opinion. 
the last thing is that iam afraid that it is a matter of time since we have to pay import duty on goods which come from china. it started with ebay and than goes to aliexpress.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 20, 2019)

A few recent observations: The silver upgrade cable for the ZSN makes the earphone sound much much worse than how amazing the ZSN sounds with the copper cable. The cable makes it sound so bad that I want a refund on the "silver" upgrade cable and the ZSN.

Ohm adapters work: They seem to add a bigger body, a wider soundstage and more clarity. Cool.


----------



## Mdclol

Sucks to hear some of you guys may have received a faulty ZS7. It seems I lucked out in getting a properly working one, along with a few other members here. Amazon is your friend in these instances.

Me thinks the most meaningful bit of information we can derive comes from direct comparisons to other IEM's from the _same_ set of ears(factoring in preferences). Not from frequency response graphs. Anecdotally, real world experience comparing audio gear rarely matches what FR graphs led me to believe.

Many of my pricier IEMs sound duller, and more flat in comparison to these. Flat in a boring way, rather than reference-flat. Or they have sibilance, or their mids are veiled, perhaps recessed. _Wait_ -- maybe it's because I just always unintentionally bought crappy earphones, haha!

Geez, the more I listen to these the more I'm convinced: KZ not only showed me they can make a knockout, but you don't also have to steal consumers' money in doing so.

Our cheap little treasure.


----------



## blur.png

the price of the CCA C10 is ridiculously cheap for a 5 driver earphone, i wonder if its better to get those or the ZS7 since the ZS7 almost cost twice as much, any comparison since i cant get a simple answer for it

also about the ZSN, i've settled on trn v80 stock tips, they fit the best & sounds the best, gone those aggressive peaks and it sounds great now


----------



## SHAMuuu

sino8r said:


> Okay, I tried to get some up close pics of the mysterious unsoldered wire in each of our KZ ZS7s. I've circled them here in blue. And I have no idea where they go. Maybe someone who's built iems before can identify the correct location. I do want to reiterate that these sound fantastic (and despite QC problem and all) are a large improvement over the ZS6. I'd say they sound as good as the AS10/BA10 with a improvement in the sub bass only dynamics can produce. BUT... The ZSN and ZS6 might be slightly stronger in sub bass department. So, in conclusion, the ZS7 comes close to perfection but isn't quite there at 100%. I guess we'll still be chasing the dragon
> 
> Maybe the 8 sided BA will do the trick?
> 
> ...



Cool pics.

I will remind myself to have fire extinguisher near at all times.

wowwey






There ain't no party like a KZ party.

S-Club 7 reference


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

*please take everything I said with a grain of salt. I'm just a student who's looking for cheap ways to really enjoy my music.*

Hey guys. I just got my green ZS6's yesterday. I think KZ sorted out the sibilance issue with the ZS6's. If not, then I guess my ears are not as treble-sensitive as I thought. For reference, I had the ZS5 V1's (which unfortunately were lost by a friend who I lent it to) and until recently the ES4 (I lent it to my father, he's turning into an audiophile although he doesn't have much experience with earphones in general, he much prefers his car's sound system.) I believe the ZS6 is way better. Much more balanced and pleasing with great detail and good soundstage. I found the ZS5 V1's a bit lacking after almost a year of using them while I still had them, and weirdly enough I kind of found it uncomfortable to listen to (both physically and sonically). The last time I consistently used the ZS5 V1's, the combination of the recessed mids and the well known KZ spike in the high's made it a chore to listen to the beloved ZS5 V1's. The ES4's are indeed much easier to listen to, but the lack of instrument separation as well as detail retrieval often disappointed me. I used the neutralizer app on my Xperia Z3 running a custom nougat rom with Viper4Android installed and I also used the best SPC cable KZ offered as well as wide bore tips (the ones that come with the skullcandy titans *cough cough*, those are the only wide bore ear tips I have unfortunately). The combination of all that made the sound better and cleaner. However my sentiments remain. When I learned that the green ZS6's were back in production I immediately ordered a pair. Two days into owning the ZS6's, I find almost everything nice and crispy. It's not a treble cannon in my opinion, the bass is a little tight and unnatural though. It's also a lot more balanced compared to the ZS5's in memory with better-controlled bass and richer mids. The high's are a little cleaner too it seems to me, although there's still a lot of detail, sparkle, and what not (which I barely found on the ES4). 

On a side note, unfortunately I dropped the right side from around knee level (I'm 5'7") and dented one of the edged corners on the housing. No difference with the sound. Are the housings really that easy to damage? Anyone have a similar experience?


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A few recent observations: The silver upgrade cable for the ZSN makes the earphone sound much much worse than how amazing the ZSN sounds with the copper cable. The cable makes it sound so bad that I want a refund on the "silver" upgrade cable and the ZSN.
> 
> Ohm adapters work: They seem to add a bigger body, a wider soundstage and more clarity. Cool.



What values of Ohm adapters did you use with ZSN?
Did you try them with AS10?

I found AS10 being very sensitive to the output impedance and even cables (unlike other IEMs I have).


----------



## TechnoidFR

blur.png said:


> the price of the CCA C10 is ridiculously cheap for a 5 driver earphone, i wonder if its better to get those or the ZS7 since the ZS7 almost cost twice as much, any comparison since i cant get a simple answer for it
> 
> also about the ZSN, i've settled on trn v80 stock tips, they fit the best & sounds the best, gone those aggressive peaks and it sounds great now



Zs7 33€ cca C10 26€

But both are excellent for the price. 
I must compare to have the most accurate answer. I'm sure of one/2 things. They are incredible and detailed. C10 seems more aerial and zs7 more impact/dynamic

But they are very awesome for the price. It's a good choice  in both cases.


----------



## Drake_Mallard

ronaldocapitoii said:


> *please take everything I said with a grain of salt. I'm just a student who's looking for cheap ways to really enjoy my music.*
> 
> Hey guys. I just got my green ZS6's yesterday. I think KZ sorted out the sibilance issue with the ZS6's. If not, then I guess my ears are not as treble-sensitive as I thought. For reference, I had the ZS5 V1's (which unfortunately were lost by a friend who I lent it to) and until recently the ES4 (I lent it to my father, he's turning into an audiophile although he doesn't have much experience with earphones in general, he much prefers his car's sound system.) I believe the ZS6 is way better. Much more balanced and pleasing with great detail and good soundstage. I found the ZS5 V1's a bit lacking after almost a year of using them while I still had them, and weirdly enough I kind of found it uncomfortable to listen to (both physically and sonically). The last time I consistently used the ZS5 V1's, the combination of the recessed mids and the well known KZ spike in the high's made it a chore to listen to the beloved ZS5 V1's. The ES4's are indeed much easier to listen to, but the lack of instrument separation as well as detail retrieval often disappointed me. I used the neutralizer app on my Xperia Z3 running a custom nougat rom with Viper4Android installed and I also used the best SPC cable KZ offered as well as wide bore tips (the ones that come with the skullcandy titans *cough cough*, those are the only wide bore ear tips I have unfortunately). The combination of all that made the sound better and cleaner. However my sentiments remain. When I learned that the green ZS6's were back in production I immediately ordered a pair. Two days into owning the ZS6's, I find almost everything nice and crispy. It's not a treble cannon in my opinion, the bass is a little tight and unnatural though. It's also a lot more balanced compared to the ZS5's in memory with better-controlled bass and richer mids. The high's are a little cleaner too it seems to me, although there's still a lot of detail, sparkle, and what not (which I barely found on the ES4).
> 
> On a side note, unfortunately I dropped the right side from around knee level (I'm 5'7") and dented one of the edged corners on the housing. No difference with the sound. Are the housings really that easy to damage? Anyone have a similar experience?


That's the main problem I have with painted metal earphones. My Nuforce HEM1 and EDC since they are (durable) plastic I handle them them without any care having them dangle, bang into each other or tables. Meanwhile I handle my ZS6 and ZS7 like I'm carrying quail eggs.


----------



## hakuzen

sino8r said:


> Okay, I tried to get some up close pics of the mysterious unsoldered wire in each of our KZ ZS7s. I've circled them here in blue. And I have no idea where they go. Maybe someone who's built iems before can identify the correct location. I do want to reiterate that these sound fantastic (and despite QC problem and all) are a large improvement over the ZS6. I'd say they sound as good as the AS10/BA10 with a improvement in the sub bass only dynamics can produce. BUT... The ZSN and ZS6 might be slightly stronger in sub bass department. So, in conclusion, the ZS7 comes close to perfection but isn't quite there at 100%. I guess we'll still be chasing the dragon
> 
> Maybe the 8 sided BA will do the trick?
> 
> ...


i've also opened the two shells. i think the "unsoldered" wire is ok, it looks like a soldering of two wires, using a tiny-bit-of-tin. it shouldn't create any problem while the joint doesn't touch sensible (positive) points.


----------



## BoZ29

Drake_Mallard said:


> That's the main problem I have with painted metal earphones. My Nuforce HEM1 and EDC since they are (durable) plastic I handle them them without any care having them dangle, bang into each other or tables. Meanwhile I handle my ZS6 and ZS7 like I'm carrying quail eggs.


I think these can handle some abuse. Personally I love the little scratches and dents. Gives them a vintage and used look. And if it’s getting too worse, a little spray can with a nice color can do miracles...


----------



## toddy0191

Does anyone know if the stock tips from the ZSN can be purchased separately anywhere?

The ones that are preinstalled out of the box (not the starline ones).

They've quickly become my favourite tips and I NEED more pairs.


----------



## Slater

toddy0191 said:


> Does anyone know if the stock tips from the ZSN can be purchased separately anywhere?
> 
> The ones that are preinstalled out of the box (not the starline ones).
> 
> They've quickly become my favourite tips and I NEED more pairs.



I second this. I want to buy some more. The default size is fine (M).


----------



## mbwilson111

toddy0191 said:


> Does anyone know if the stock tips from the ZSN can be purchased separately anywhere?
> 
> The ones that are preinstalled out of the box (not the starline ones).
> 
> They've quickly become my favourite tips and I NEED more pairs.



Me too.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jan 20, 2019)

sino8r said:


> I do want to reiterate that these sound fantastic (and despite QC problem and all) are a large improvement over the ZS6. I'd say they sound as good as the AS10/BA10 with a improvement in the sub bass only dynamics can produce........in conclusion, the ZS7 comes close to perfection but isn't quite there at 100%.




IF.......the ZS7 is a BA10 with a lower frequency dynamic then that would explain why the ZS7 is getting so much love. The BA10's rich midrange is an incremental improvement of the ZS6's slightly thinner midrange. IMHO, if the ZS7 eschews the ZS6's 10-12khz lift in the treble (which is not an issue for me) but does inherit the ZS6's more visceral bass and soundstage depth



Spoiler



ZS6's 10-12khz lift in the treble and visceral bass courtesy of hakuzen and audiobudget

Hakuzen FR graph (green measurements are silicone vs foam on ZS6. 
Note the shift from a 9khz and 12khz spike (silicone eartips) to a 13-15khz plateau 
(foam eartips) at lower db and zero sub-bass roll off @20Hz)



 

Audiobudget FR graph
Note the treble indicates a spike at 10khz and the sub-bass rolls off starting @ 60hz)


 

Note: your ears may hear things as differently as these measuring rigs have. 
The more feedback we have the clearer the picture becomes.

Again, thanks to Hakuzen and Audiobudget for posting their findings.



...and if the ZS7 has the BA10's more balanced presentation then the ZS7 would certainly have an incredible price to performance ratio at $35+/-. 

Actually, an aluminum shelled multi-BA hybrid WITH DETACHABLE CABLES that can outperform the ZS6 at a $35+/- price point would be tough to topple.



Spoiler





 


 






PAY ATTENTION FOLKS!

With KZ's ZS7 making headway on one front and CCA's C10 making headway on another, both sharing inner hardware yet offering different presentations, the rules of engagement just changed. BQEYZ is deployed and making headway while KZ has employed a proxy (CCA). 2019 should be a landmark year for Chi-Fi.

I'll be reviewing several BQEYZ models and I'll follow those up with the newest crop from KZ (ZS7) and CCA (C10 and eventually the C16).

Only three weeks into 2019 and your New Year resolution is quickly becoming a faint memory. 

Experience the fine line between pleasure and pain as you weep at the void in your wallet.


----------



## toddy0191

mbwilson111 said:


> Me too.



I've messaged the official kz store on AE asking if they can be purchased separately.

Fingers crossed!


----------



## mbwilson111

toddy0191 said:


> I've messaged the official kz store on AE asking if they can be purchased separately.
> 
> Fingers crossed!



I would want to be able to buy a bunch of just medium.


----------



## Drake_Mallard (Jan 20, 2019)

They are pretty generic silicone eartips. Unlike the starline tips, I don't think KZ makes them. You can find them (at least it looks a lot like them) by searching for "silicone earphone tips" on Aliexpress. They are the ones that comes in a 10 pack with clear ones.
Speaking of tips, the starline tips included with the KZ ZS7 are actually different from the previous starlines. The new ones has a more matt finish, softer, and overall more comfortable.

The ones on the right are the new ones


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

blur.png said:


> also about the ZSN, i've settled on trn v80 stock tips, they fit the best & sounds the best, gone those aggressive peaks and it sounds great now


What other tips did you try?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 20, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> What values of Ohm adapters did you use with ZSN?
> Did you try them with AS10?
> 
> I found AS10 being very sensitive to the output impedance and even cables (unlike other IEMs I have).


I've only tried a 30 ohm adapter so far. My 75 ohm Dunu is on its way. I don't want to try anything with my AS10's as they are too expensive if something goes wrong.

If you want a more scientific idea of how each of my IEM's sounded with the 30 ohm I will have to re-try them and get back to you later after I write down the responses.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 20, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> Zs7 33€ cca C10 26€
> 
> I must compare to have the most accurate answer. I'm sure of one/2 things. They are incredible and detailed. C10 seems more aerial and zs7 more impact/dynamic
> 
> But they are very awesome for the price. It's a good choice  in both cases.


They're both not in your preferred IEM signature. 

*IEM Prefered : *NiceHCK M6 / NiceHCK EP10 / KZ AS10 / KZ ZS10 / KZ AS06 / KZ ED9 / KZ ZS5v1 / KZ ZS6 / KZ ZSN / BQEYZ KC2 / Macaw GT600S


----------



## TechnoidFR

LaughMoreDaily said:


> They're both not in your preferred IEM signature.
> 
> *IEM Prefered : *NiceHCK M6 / NiceHCK EP10 / KZ AS10 / KZ ZS10 / KZ AS06 / KZ ED9 / KZ ZS5v1 / KZ ZS6 / KZ ZSN / BQEYZ KC2 / Macaw GT600S



Note updated 
But i said that here
https://twitter.com/Chifi_Fr/status/1086233239583375360?s=19


----------



## Slater

Drake_Mallard said:


> They are pretty generic silicone eartips. Unlike the starline tips, I don't think KZ makes them. You can find them (at least it looks a lot like them) by searching for "silicone earphone tips" on Aliexpress. They are the ones that comes in a 10 pack with clear ones.
> Speaking of tips, the starline tips included with the KZ ZS7 are actually different from the previous starlines. The new ones has a more matt finish, softer, and overall more comfortable.
> 
> The ones on the right are the new ones



Those are not the same tips. The ones on Aliexpress are wide bore with a smooth top edge.

The preinstalled ZSN ones remind me of an Auvio tip, or a Starline without the star ridges.

I have never seen them except on the ZSN.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> Those are not the same tips. The ones on Aliexpress are wide bore with a smooth top edge.
> 
> The preinstalled ZSN ones remind me of an Auvio tip, or a Starline without the star ridges.
> 
> I have never seen them except on the ZSN.



CCA C10 have too. Great tips I found !


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I agree the tips sound great but they are just too hard for me. Ended up using Sony Hybrids on the ZSN, but upon tip rolling the BQ3 I found a tip that was the exact same mold as the stock ZSN tips but with a softer more gummy material very much like the JVC Spiral Dots. That's what I have on them now. I have no idea where it came from. 
I tried them on the C10 when I got them, but didn't work out well. Ended up using Spiral Dots on the C10's


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I agree the tips sound great but they are just too hard for me. Ended up using Sony Hybrids on the ZSN, but upon tip rolling the BQ3 I found a tip that was the exact same mold as the stock ZSN tips but with a softer more gummy material very much like the JVC Spiral Dots. That's what I have on them now. I have no idea where it came from.
> I tried them on the C10 when I got them, but didn't work out well. Ended up using Spiral Dots on the C10's



Let us know if you ever figure out where they came from


----------



## TechnoidFR (Jan 20, 2019)

After comparison between ZS7 and c10
My conclusion is : They are very very closed.
- Same sensibility
- Same signature
- Same soundstage
- Same detail

But the difference are very very light
- ZS7 have slightly more mid bass
- C10 have slightly more sub bass
- C10 are slightly more aerial
- ZS7 have slightly more impact/punch
- ZS7 have slightly more high mid
- C10 are slightly, very very slightly more brilliant

They are very similar. I can use one zs7 in one side and c10 in other. The difference is to light for my ears and brain to feel a real difference. except for the bass. Few music with a lot of bass we can feel the difference


To resume the choice
C10 : more aerial, more brilliant, more sub bass
Zs7 : more punch, more mid bass, more warm

They are so closer with so difference in hardware. It's really impressive

I'll continue with cca c10 and zs10 and m6

M6 and c10 are similar too. But the M6 is better ( with silver filter ). More warm, more soft, voice have more body. Less bass and less impact. C10 are more bright but mid bass is less present. We can feel the big difference in Can you feel my heart - Bring me the horizon : 1:33.

M6 sounds more mature but c10 seems more balanced


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

toddy0191 said:


> Does anyone know if the stock tips from the ZSN can be purchased separately anywhere?
> 
> The ones that are preinstalled out of the box (not the starline ones).
> 
> They've quickly become my favourite tips and I NEED more pairs.


More pairs like underwears. Wear them tightly.


----------



## hakuzen (Jun 7, 2019)

*KZ ZS7 measurements*
*
Gear and conditions*
Gear: ADC EMU-0404 USB + JDSLabs C5D amplifier + IEC-60318-4 (711) couplers and mic + SPL meter, all calibrated (the best i could..).
Room Eq Wizard (REW) software.
KZ ZS7 with cable 125 of my list, and spiral dots tips, size M.
Raw calibrated measurements (not smoothed nor compensated).
Measured at 24bits, 192kHz. ~27mV@1kHz (94dB at Right).
Corrected all gear imbalance, to reflect true imbalance of the IEMs.
[click on images to enlarge]

*Sensitivity and Impedance @1kHz*
Left..: 21.6Ω, 125.6dB/V (108.9dB/mW)
Right: 21.5Ω, 125.5dB/V (108.8dB/mW)
A bit less impedance and higher sensitivity than specified by the distributors.

*Frequency response*



*Impedance*



Spoiler: Impedance and Phase (L/R separated)








*Distortion
 *

*Impulse Response*


Spoiler: Impulse Response



*IR (minimum phase )

 *

* Envelope (ETC)

 

Step Response
 
 *



*KZ ZS7 vs KZ ZS6 Frequency Response*


Spoiler: KZ ZS7 vs KZ ZS6 Frequency Response



Please consider that ZS6 was measured time ago, with another calibration, other cable and tips. This affects above 12kHz frequencies mainly.
These ZS6 were measured with sub-bass hole tapped (more sub-bass).

More upper mids in ZS7, mids are similar. ZS7's 8kHz peak is identical to ZS6's (expect similar or even a bit more sibilance). The big highs ~10kHz peak of ZS6 has turned into a big dip.



*Using amplifiers with high output impedance*


Spoiler: Amplifiers with high output impedances



Used serial resistors (20Ω and 70Ω) to make the simulation. They added some distortion at lows.
The effect on highs is not big. If you plan to decrease sibilance, try foam tips (measurements in the future..); they'll have more influence on 8kHz peak.




cheers =))

*NOTES*
The crossover at 800Hz (transition from dynamic driver to mids balanced armatures) could be better; check distortion at that point in both sides.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 21, 2019)

DocHoliday said:


> IF.......the ZS7 is a BA10 with a lower frequency dynamic then that would explain why the ZS7 is getting so much love. The BA10's rich midrange is an incremental improvement of the ZS6's slightly thinner midrange. IMHO, if the ZS7 eschews the ZS6's 10-12khz lift in the treble (which is not an issue for me) but does inherit the ZS6's more visceral bass and soundstage depth...and if the ZS7 has the BA10's more balanced presentation then the ZS7 would certainly have an incredible price to performance ratio at $35+/-.


Doc, it seems to me that you're describing the CCA C10 here, only that it doesn't quite have that mid-bass slam the ZS6 has. It's bass resolution and precision is superior to that of the ZS6, however. I don't have the ZS7.

Edit: Deleted a stray word.


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## SybilLance

hakuzen said:


> *KZ ZS7 measurements*
> *
> Distortion
> *
> ...


Hakuzen, thanks for your efforts! Really appreciated, as I used your measurements and graphs together with your recommendations to get the proper ear tips for my red ZS6 (medium-to-wide bore ball-shaped foams). They were perfect and made the ZS6 my favorite and best in-ears, even with the arrival of the ZSN. The CCA C10 now occupies that position.


Oh! Is that 800 Hz distortion spike audible?


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## 1clearhead

TechnoidFR said:


> After comparison between ZS7 and c10
> My conclusion is : They are very very closed.
> - Same sensibility
> - Same signature
> ...


Nice comparison!


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## Scaven (Jan 21, 2019)

Just got the ZS7, they sound good, but holy driver flex batman!! I can't get a good seal because of it.

I also think the ZSN sound better, especially in the treble .


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## BoZ29

Nice comparison! Another question, I just adviced a friend to buy the C10, he also needs a bluetooth cable. Which one to get? It’s the same fitting as the zs6/7?


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## SybilLance

CCA C10 Impressions Update (_vis-à-vis_ The KZ ZSN):



I've a confession. I didn't really shelve the CCA C10 when it arrived. The temptation to hear more was so irresistible that it’s a wonder I even considered putting it aside for a while. I was so taken with the similarity to the KZ ZSN that I started listening to it and hasn't stopped since. 

This similarity with the KZ ZSN not just in appearance but more importantly in sound particularly on first listen, surely must have caught the attention of those who have it. It is on this basis, using the ZSN as point of reference that I made my notes and hereunder present my impressions.




Spoiler: Introduction



*Introduction *

CCA (Clear Concept Audio) has been heretofore established as a sister company of KZ (Knowledge Zenith), thanks to 1clearhead’s piqued curiosity and efforts. Its initial release was the CCA C04, a 1 DD (8 mm) + 1 BA (30095) hybrid that, as is increasingly common these days, was just one among many monthly—or weekly—releases by the multitudes of Chinese companies that are into the design, manufacture and sales of portable audio gear, including headphones. A drop of rain into the sea, so to speak. Naturally, the C04 generally passed under the radar of Chinese-made IEM enthusiasts although it did manage that blip on the screen as to make a number respond.

Now we have the CCA C10, another hybrid pair of in-ear monitors consisting of 1 10mm dynamic and 4 balanced armature (2 mid-frequency #50060 + 2 high-frequency #30095) drivers per side. Being a multiple-BA hybrid it admittedly triggered some flags at its relatively low price but mainly it caught attention (probably prompting numerous double-takes) because it looks so much like the KZ ZSN, a hybrid configured like the C04, but whose tuning and out-of-the-norm (for KZ) premium build and cable at its astounding $10-$15 price makes it very popular.

For some, chance may have played a major role in the creation of the ZSN, but I like to believe that for KZ—and for CCA—it’s more of an analogue of natural selection, at the level of viruses. I do not intend any pejorative connotation but that is how KZ has managed to remain afloat and survive and flourish, and progress in an astonishingly short period of time; by the continuous release, oftentimes concurrent, of so many different models of earphones as to flood the market. The templates and characteristics of those that sound good, or more accurately, sell because they are perceived by a majority of enthusiasts as sounding good, are retained and adapted in a new iteration in each succeeding generation, using increasingly better resources with correspondingly better techniques, done by original research or otherwise copied, and each time there is an incremental improvement. Sometimes, this improvement is huge.

Clearly serendipity and/or evolution also favors the CCA C10.






Spoiler: Build, Fit, Comfort, etc.



*Build, Fit, Comfort, etc.*

The C10's cable is similar to the one that came with the KZ AS06 but with the metal earpiece connectors found in the KZ SPC flat-braided replacement cable. Its plug is also L-shaped. It is however loosely braided and not as soft, thus annoyingly prone to tangling.

As I’ve previously posted, the preformed ear guide leading to the right connector of the stock CCA C10 cable arrived bent out of shape so I tried a fix but the implement to fix it broke. So I changed cables, using a spare KZ SPC cable above-mentioned. It made no audible difference that I could discern.

At first glance or from a cursory examination it would seem that the C10 shell is identical to that of the ZSN.

Not quite.

Both the C10 and ZSN have metal faceplates (as per product details, zinc alloy for the C10 while aviation aluminum alloy for the ZSN) covering the main resin shells but that of the latter is screwed on while the former's obviously snaps into place.

Yes, both shells may have the same shape and general dimensions, but the C10 nozzle is stubbier and is an extension of its resin shell. The ZSN nozzle is longer and made of metal. Both have nozzle openings of the same diameter, but the C10 nozzle is a straight tube all the way to where it flares to follow the contours of the shell. The ZSN nozzle has a collared rim, approximately a millimeter in thickness and about half that in depth such that from this flanged opening the nozzle tube is smaller by at least a millimeter compared to that of the C10 until the flared base. The projection angle of the ZSN nozzle relative to its axis that's perpendicular to its faceplate is more obtuse than that of the C10.

Therefore with the ZSN you have this latitude where ear tips are concerned: changing them is so much easier; they most likely would remain in place when the earphones are removed; and most replacement tips being sold could possibly fit.

*Note:*_ I don't have side-by-side close-up pictures between the C10 and the ZSN to show off nozzle differences because the one foam tip I have that’s perfect for the C10 is stuck on its nozzle and I dare not attempt removal until the tips I ordered arrive. Sorry. Others have posted side-by-side pics sans tips, though._

On the other hand the C10 would need ear tips with a comparatively larger core or inner tube diameter. Unlike with the ZSN where the fit seems bespoke to my ears I had a problem getting a secure fit and seal using my available eartips with the C10. Even with an ideal fit courtesy of foam tips (below) the shorter nozzle and its somewhat more vertical orientation result in a rather shallow insertion and an ever so vaguely awkward feeling. For sure, it's not as vanish-in-your-ears comfortable as the ZSN. In the course of 5 or so days I have adjusted and have become accustomed to this niggle so now I could listen for hours without being bothered by it.

Using my favorite wide-bore soft silicone tips, I hear anemic bass and I have to push the shell a bit downwards and further inwards from the top where it rests against the antihelix to get the desired bass fullness. I found a pair of medium-size medium-to-wide bore ball-shaped foam tips in one of the KZ boxes so I changed ear tips. The contrast in bass response was like dusk and noon, yet there seemed to be no concomitant loosening of the bass nor did it become muddy or congested as is generally expected with generic foams. Resolution in the middle all the way up to the higher ranges is not affected as well, and there is that welcome attenuation of external ambient noise. I could posit that perhaps this is because the soft foam surrounding the tip opening are pushed back as they're inserted, the bigger nozzles creating a tighter passage, thus fully exposing the nozzle at the same time completely plugging the cavity between the nozzle and the ear canal.

I must mention that when I first attempted to insert the C10 into my ears with its pre-attached small-bore silicone tips there was considerable driver flex in both ear pieces. Very carefully inserting each in-ear one after the other by first pulling the helix of the ear upward and back to straighten the ear canal, slightly angling the tip forward and towards the top of my head, then with my mouth open moving the earpiece around, minimized the crinkly crackly sounds but did not eliminate them altogether. It seems the foam ear tips I'm currently using are more effective towards this end because I rarely encounter driver flex now.

As regards build quality the C10 earpiece is okay, but it doesn't seem to have that premium ZSN feel. With regard to ergonomics and design forethought it and its cable are to me a distressing retrogression to earlier KZ models. Yet in light of all this I'm still shaking my head in wonder at how KZ has managed to produce the ZSN, getting so many things right in the process—including the most important aspect of sound, and yet retail it at an amazingly low price. Plainly the ZSN is a budget IEM champ. As for the C10, sound is where its metier lies.



 


Spoiler: Sound



*Sound*

In their respective product details in AliExpress, the dynamic driver of the C10 is stated as a “10mm double magnetic circuit dynamic unit” which is a “low distortion professional dynamic unit” with “magnet volume increased by 30%” while that of the ZSN is a “10mm self-developed titanium film dynamic unit” that brings “stronger driving force with a four-layer voice coil”. This may be true and the two dynamic drivers may in fact be different, or they may after all be identical, because the C10 and ZSN bass do share similar characteristics.

C10 bass is tight, punchy, as fast and as controlled and reaches as deep into the sub-bass as that of the ZSN. Perhaps even deeper. It also seems to have more mid-bass prominence which imbues a warmer foundation to the C10’s sonic signature. The transition from upper bass into the lower mid-range is more restrained; I encountered masking of mid-range details only in the most complex songs. Because of this I could say that the C10 resolves low frequency textures and details a bit more. In my swinging and bebop Jazz reference tracks where the double bass and the drums exclusively set the underpinnings of the rhythm, I could, in the C10, just begin to discern the delineation between the percussive impact of the kick drum and the snap of the bass strings when plucked, as well as the trailing edges of these transients, from the faster decay of the drum to the slower and lingering reverberation of the double bass. In the ZSN I could not; these details seem to be there yet not there, inchoate, blending together in the field of sound being reproduced. I can only imagine what it would be like to listen to a pair of TOTL IEMs with all such gradations of textures and dynamic progressions of transients presented with all accuracy, precision and clarity. Still I cannot help but marvel at the resemblance between the two in-ears in the way they reproduce bass.

Like the ZSN, the C10 does not sound as recessed in the mid-range relative to the rest of the frequency spectrum but, unlike with the ZSN, the sensation of proximity is not as pronounced. Voices, both male and female, aside from having more body are not presented as upfront (or more precisely, in-your-ears) as in the ZSN. This sets up a broader sense of perspective where the voice is not disembodied as it sometimes is with the ZSN in close-mike vocal recordings; but is perceived as a resultant of movement of air from the chest, through the larynx and throat, shaped by, and out the mouth and nostrils. Female voices are especially intoxicating in the C10, such that I'm totally engaged in the absolute mastery of restraint and vocal control of Sarah Vaughan and Barbra Streisand, the perfect pitch and effortless technique of Ella Fitzgerald, the raw emotion evoked by Billie Holiday's phrasing and tempo.

Instruments too seem more natural with the C10; drums, cymbals and their iterations, strings, winds and the piano just sound more lifelike. Or perhaps it's because the warm foundation of the bass imparts fullness, a sense of solidity, which I very much like and prefer.

I also hear in the C10 the rudiments of that ability to resolve more subtle details across the audible frequency range that I fully enjoy with the HiFiMAN HE-400i and that I have never as completely heard from any of my other earphones, with the exception of my venerable detail champ, the Ostry KC06A: finger plucks on strings, fingers sliding and pressing on the finger board, ringing squeaks of finger pads on strings during that vibrato, the thumps of fingers on trumpet pistons and other such mechanical interaction with instruments; taxed breathing by cellists; sharply drawn huffs and more gentle puffs of air, those wet smacks as singers’ lips open and close. Again I imagine what it must be like to listen to such with IEMs that are the absolute best in detail and resolution. But to hear them, even on a basic level, from a $26 IEM ordered online for COD is truly liberating.

The C10 has no problem with vocal sibilance (S, T and Z and other fricative and affricate consonants generally heard from 4-5 KHz and sometimes to 8 or even 10 KHz). It must be noted that sibilance _per se_ is part, and a natural function, of human speech. Every day we express, and hear, sibilant speech. Think “She sells seashells by the seashore.” It is only when vocal sibilance inherent in a recording is improperly or unnaturally reproduced as when there is harshness or stridency even at low to moderate volumes that it becomes irritating and undesirable.

_Spanish Harlem_ sung by Rebecca Pidgeon from her album _The Raven_ (Chesky, 1994) and the first song track in Chesky's _Ultimate Demonstration Disc_ is an example of a naturally sibilant recording, what with all those sibilant consonants in the lyrics. The vocal sibilance is there, but it is integral to a song that's oftentimes used as a benchmark for high resolution audio. Attenuating or smoothing this will result in a corresponding loss of detail—for one, the distinctive variations in the sound of the shaker won’t be there anymore. If the headphone or speaker has a spike in the frequency range concerned, then _Spanish Harlem_ would be intolerable. Therefore the reproduction of Rebecca Pidgeon’s voice has to be just right.

Another test for sibilance, a comprehensive one at that, is Linda Ronstadt’s trilogy of traditional American standards, also known as the “Round Midnight” trilogy: _What’s New_, _Lush Life_ and _For Sentimental Reasons_. Ronstadt’s manner of singing and the way she articulates and aspirates her words in the languid style of these recordings naturally emphasize the sibilant consonants.

I’m very glad to say that the C10 aces both of the above.

Treble detail and clarity is likewise better expressed in the C10. Continuing with what seems to be its main character of restraint and control, it also exhibits that crispness and sparkle found in the ZSN but with a finer yet smoother silhouette. At first I perceived the upper brilliance region as somewhat subdued, with a limited sense of air up top, in direct comparison with the ZSN which seems to extend more. Later on I realized I mistook the ZSN’s intrinsic brightness as superior extension and airiness. Indeed, listening to _Lush Life_ from Maynard Ferguson’s high-energy _Live From San Francisco_ album (Omnivore, 1994) showed this. Ferguson’s acclaimed ability to play the trumpet in extremely high registers with full tone and power yet preserving musicality is showcased in this John Coltrane jazz standard. The C10 handled all of the soaring trumpet notes against the backdrop of the shimmering cymbals and the other horns with composed dexterity while with the ZSN I always have to turn down the volume a bit in certain passages because they are borderline strident. It seems the C10 presents detail with a restrained, smooth, glare-free transparency, if one could visualize the metaphors I’m using. I actually prefer this smoothness of treble character, conducive as it is to longer fatigue-free listening sessions.

Imaging, the positional and spatial cues in the sound field (e.g., where the musicians are situated, their distance relative to each other, and to the walls of the room in a live chamber music recording), is excellent in the C10. Going through the entire _Ultimate Demonstration Disc_ and the _Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc_ (both from Chesky Records) confirms this. The album _Live From Studio A in New York City_ (Chesky, 1994) featuring Johnny Frigo with Bucky & John Pizzarelli, Ron Carter, Michael Moore and Butch Miles is a stellar model and audiophile standard for imaging (See Reference Notes). I appreciate listening to this with the HiFiMAN HE-400i, the imaging of which is for me perfect. The C10 out of all my earphones comes closest to that aural experience.

Soundstage, which determines the shape and size of the sound field that contains all those imaging cues, and that is created by the headphone itself, is very wide, with sufficient depth in the C10. The left and right expanse and receding extent of the horizontal sound field are easily perceived; height, however, takes focus to place. Admittedly all these are still taking place within the confines of my head, with the center image of sound still plastered to the upper middle of my forehead. The aforementioned _Live From Studio A_ and binaural recordings such as Ottmar Liebert's _Up Close_ (Spiral Subwave, 2008) and _Stripped_ featuring Macy Gray (Chesky, 2016) heighten the illusion of an out-of-the-head sound image. If one has an app with a Crosstalk function like the Audioforge Equalizer for iOS devices, one could further enhance said illusion by creating a phantom center image that resides in front of and outside the head, thereby making the sound image more coherent with the absence of that hole in the middle. All my earphones have failed to recreate this illusory image except, to a certain extent, the ZS5 v1. I'm very happy that the C10 places a definite second to the ZS5v1 in its ability to reproduce at least a semblance of such illusion. I swear I could hear Macy Gray's raspy voice floating a couple of meters in front of my forehead for the first few syllables in _Annabelle,_ the first track in _Stripped_. Likewise, _Entrance + Tuning_ which is the last track in _Up Close_ startled me because I thought someone had actually entered the room—notwithstanding the countless number of times I have listened to it.




*Summary*

As I went over my notes made in the course of listening to the CCA C10, it was immediately obvious that my impressions of its sound are all positive. Without any context (my limited experience with IEMs and the actual ones I have listened to) what I've written here might as well apply to a very capable high-end pair of in-ears. But CCA is, for all intents and purposes at this point in time, definitely not a high-end brand. And the C10 is a budget hybrid IEM that retails for approximately $30 US and which I bought for $26. As a matter of fact, with regard to build and design, cable, fit and comfort,  and general feel, I find that it lags behind its KZ cousin—the ZSN, that I got for ~$10.78—to which it bears a striking resemblance not just in appearance but in base sound signature. And at present nobody would ever assert in any discussion, much less accept, that KZ is a high-end brand.

This head-scratching cross-dichotomy if you would, was brought to the fore when, in response to an earlier post of mine, I was asked whether my statement that the C10 is more or less double the price of the ZSN carries with it a positive or negative connotation. I haven't yet spent sufficient time with the C10 to give a straight answer then. 

Now, I can: Notwithstanding whatever perplexing inferiority the C10 has to the ZSN in other aspects, in terms of pure sound quality alone I would take the C10 anytime. 

Upon first audition the C10 sounded eerily similar to the ZSN—especially if one has just listened to the latter. Over time however the C10's refinement, technical prowess and ability to resolve more detail became manifest. It's simply more coherent, has that bit more natural tonality and timbre and has a more pleasant, warmer foundation than the ZSN. Technically it is on a higher level; its bass resonance, resolution, precision and control are just better, although there is a lack of weight in impact when compared to say, that of the Simgot EN700 Pro, or just even the KZ ZS6. Rendition of vocals, especially female is simply heady delicious. Its smooth, glare-free yet transparent presentation of treble makes for hours of fatigue-free enjoyment. And its handling of the dynamics of the music content makes it the most proficient among all my earphones, pitifully small in number they may be. Insofar as over-all sound reproduction is concerned I’d place the CCA C10 in the same level as my husband's Simgot EM1, a balanced, single DD with rich bass, a seductive mid-range and energetic presence region. 

In short, the $26 C10 is my best so far, by far. Until the next sub-$30 wonder dethrones it. It could be the ZS7, if ever it falls under $30 in upcoming sales. Or it could be one which combines the tuning of the C10 with the shell and accessories of the ZSN, with those increscent improvements in internal structure and design—at the same price point, of course. As I’ve said here many times, my pleasures are simple.



Spoiler: Reference Notes



*  Reference Notes*

Comparative adjectives are used strictly within the context of how the C10 and ZSN compare to each other, unless otherwise specified. 

These impressions were obtained listening to reference tracks through my usual gear setup (Cayin N3 low gain, Super Slow filter, EQ off, line out using FiiO L16 IC to Topping NX4 low gain, bass boost off) and using a medium-size medium-to-wide-bore ball-shaped foam eartip. Cable used is the Type A SPC KZ replacement cable with the silver-colored metal connectors and flat braid (the one that turns green).

Although I don't go through the usual initialization procedures, preferring to listen right away, the C10 did have an accidental slight burn-in when I left them connected to my Cayin N3-Topping NX4 combo that was still turned on and only discovered my inadvertence much later. 

The sensitivity of the C10 is given in its product description as 108 dB, while that of the ZSN is given as 104 dB. I assume the unit is dB/mW. Both are specified to have an impedance of 32 Ohm.

My headphone collection (in order of acquisition): Sennheiser IE80; KZ ATE c.2016; Ostry KC06A (I keep forgetting the “A”); Philips SHP9500S; QKZ DM300; KZ ZS5 v1; KZ ZS6 (red); KZ ED16; Vido MX500 (2); KZ ZSN; HiFiMAN HE-400i; KZ ZS6 (green); KZ AS06; CCA C10.

Other IEMS I’ve heard (husband’s; very good, better, best): Simgot EM1; Simgot EN700 Pro; Simgot EM3. 

Coming from 2-channel stereo, my perception and definition of “soundstage” has always been in that regard; i.e., what I could hear when seated at the sweet spot of 2 stereo loudspeakers properly toed in, and with the various interactions of the sound waves with the topology of my listening room.

Some albums (only certain tracks unless specified) used for reference, in no particular order:

_Sound the Trumpets: The Royal Music of Purcell & Handel_ - Alison Balsom (2012)
_Bach: The Cello Suites_ - Steven Isserlis (2007)
_Vivaldi: The Four Seasons_ - Julia Fischer with Academy of St. Martin in the Fields DVD (2.0 LPCM, 2002)
_Wood II_ - Brian Bromberg (2006)
_Mingus Ah Um_ - Charles Mingus (1959, 1997)
_Like Minds_ - Burton, Corea, Metheny, Haynes & Holland (1998)
_Eagles:The Complete Greatest Hits_ - Eagles (2003)
_Stepping Out_ - Diana Krall (1993, 2016)
_Stripped_ - Macy Gray (2016)
_Ultimate Demonstration Disc: A Guide to Critical Listening_ whole album (Chesky, 1995)
_Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc_ whole album (Chesky, 2014)
Steely Dan: _The Royal Scam_ (1976), _Aja_ (1977), _Gaucho_ (1980), _Two Against Nature_ (2000)
_The Nightfly_ - Donald Fagen (1982)
_Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue, American in Paris_ whole album - Leonard Bernstein, piano & conductor, Columbia Symphony & New York Philharmonic Orchestras
_Paglingon: Return of the Native_ - Jacqui Magno (2000)
_Live From Studio A in New York_ - Johnny Frigo with Bucky & John Pizzarelli (1988)
_Birth of the Cool_ - Miles Davis (1949, 2000)
_Kind of Blue_ - Miles Davis (1959, 2015, MFSL)
_Sketches of Spain_ - Miles Davis (1960, 1997)
_Bitches Brew_ - Miles Davis (1970)
_Come Away With Me_ - Norah Jones (2002, 2014)
_Billie Holiday at Jazz at the Philharmonic_ - Billie Holiday (1954, 2015)
_Dream A Dream_ - Charlotte Church (2000)
_The Guitar Trio_ - Paco De Lucia, Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin (1996)
_Queen: Greatest Hits_ - Queen (2011)
_Saint-Saens Concertos_ - Yo-Yo Ma, Cecil Licad, Cho-Liang Lin (1990)
_Live at Rosy's_ - Sarah Vaughan (1978, 2016)
_Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band_ 50th Anniversary Album - The Beatles (2017)
_Abbey Road_ - The Beatles (1969, 2009)
_Let It Be_ - The Beatles (1970, 2009)
_Time Out_ - Dave Brubeck Quartet (1959)
_Time In_ - Dave Brubeck Quartet (1966)
_Time Further Out_ - Dave Brubeck Quartet (1961)
_Vocalese_ - The Manhattan Transfer (1985)
_Mecca for Moderns_ - Manhattan Transfer (1981)
_Ella and Louis_ - Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong (2014)
_Heavy Weather_ - Weather Report (1967)
_Sunday at the Village Vanguard_ - Bill Evans Trio (1961)
_Three For All _- The Bucky Pizzarelli Trio (Chesky, 2014)
_Haydn: Three Favorite Concertos_ - Wynton Marsalis, Yo-Yo Ma, Cho-Liang Lin (1990)
_Italian Concertos_ – Alison Balsom (2010)
_Chopin Ballades and Scherzos_ – Arthur Rubenstein (1959)
_Simply Streisand_ – Barbra Streisand (1967)
_Wood_ – Brian Bromberg (2002)
_Bach: The Cello Suites_ – David Watkin (2015)
_Beethoven Piano Sonatas_ – Murray Perahia (2018)
_Tenor Giants_ – Ben Webster and Coleman Hawkins whole album (1957)
_Harlem on My Mind_ – Catherine Russell (2016)
_The Cole Porter Songbook_ – Cheryl Bentyne (2009)
_Poulenc, Ravel, Debussy: Works for Violin and Piano_ - Cho-Liang Lin & Paul Crossley (1996)
_Conference of the Birds_ – Dave Holland Quartet (1973)
_Benny Rides Again_ – Eddie Daniels & Gary Burton (1992)
_The Capitol Years_ – Frank Sinatra (1954-1962)
_Italian Flute Concertos_ – Jean Pierre Rampal (1991)
_The Essential Kenny Loggins_ (2002)
_Stormy Weather: The Legendary Lena Horne_ – Lena Horne (1941-1958)
_Round Midnight Trilogy_ – Linda Ronstadt (1983-1986)
_Maynard Ferguson Live From San Francisco – _Maynard Ferguson (1994)
_Up Close_ – Ottmar Liebert + Luna Negra (2008)
_Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky Piano Concertos_ – Sviatoslav Richter (2015)
_Magic Touch_ – Stanley Jordan (1985)
_The Real... Earth, Wind & Fire – The Ultimate Collection – _Earth, Wind & Fire (2017)
_The Quintet: Jazz at Massey Hall _whole album (1953, 2012)
_Gypsy Swing_ – The Rosenberg Trio (1985)
_Verve Jazz Masters #29_ – Jimmy Smith (1994)
_Dreams of New Orleans_ – Wycliffe Gordon (2012)
_Bringin’ It!_ – Christian McBride Big Band (2017)


_*Special Note:* Chesky Records' "Live From Studio A in New York City" Featuring Johnny Frigo with Bucky and John Pizzarelli as Audiophile Reference_

_This is the album that launched Chesky Records, their very first, when it was released in July of 1994. It also launched the career of Johnny Frigo as one of the foremost exponents of swing jazz violin. It showcases the violin and guitar, with the double bass and drums forming the backdrop. It was recorded live in RCA's legendary Studio A in New York City in November 16, 1988, in order to capture all the clear, pure nuances of the two showcase acoustic instruments with Bob Katz (whose articles you may have come across in InnerFidelity during Tyll Hertsens’ time) as engineer._

_In Bucky Pizzarelli’s words, “We used only one mike and no amplifiers. John, my son, and I used old guitars like the ones they used to use in big bands instead of the seven string guitars that we usually use now. We made the album in the old fashioned way. We sat around the mike—the five of us: Johnny Frigo, my son John, Michael Moore or Ron Carter on bass, Butch Miles on drums and me—and we just played. There was no splicing. No earphones. It put everybody on a sharp edge to get it done right.”_

_Live From Studio A represents that rare once-in-a-lifetime occurrence where the passion, the intellectual and musical integrity and the improvisational skill and mastery of all musicians cohere to produce a moment of pure artistic beauty. There is passion, energy, creativity, wit, humor and style. Moreover, the sound image and the acoustic space are so clearly defined that each musician can be precisely placed. To date, it remains one of the finest pressings Chesky ever made, and which I wholeheartedly and most highly recommend to everyone who loves music for them to appreciate and to test their system._

_*Disclaimer*: I am not affiliated with Chesky Records. I have no contractual agreement to promote them. I do not earn any remuneration or emoluments from them. _



One other thing: a year or so ago I could hear the 15KHz tone at the end of the Beatles' _A Day In The Life_ (Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band 50th Anniversary, 2017); now I couldn't.


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## BoZ29 (Jan 21, 2019)

Thanks for the measurements!


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## blur.png

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What other tips did you try?


cored foam, normal foam, stock, starlines, rock zircon tips
foam makes them sound weird, cored is too big, stock is painful after a while, starlines are irritating & hard to put on, v80 & rock zircon tips felt good enough for me, but v80 is more comfortable


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## SHAMuuu (Jan 21, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> They are very similar. I can use one zs7 in one side and c10 in other. The difference is to light for my ears and brain to feel a real difference. except for the bass. Few music with a lot of bass we can feel the difference



Haha was too afraid to try such things. The balancing act just trying to figure out if both sides of the same model are close enough to each other let alone a whole other pair. I usually play mono music for this or test tones. Shift to left to right in terms of concentration. Pure madness.
Hmm is the left side lower than the right, or is it my asymmetrical ears holes or brain halves.






when the iem stick out unequally out of my tragus, i push one even harder to equalize this, risking ear drum damage.


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## TechnoidFR (Jan 21, 2019)

[QUOTE = "SHAMuuu, post: 14731103, member: 377265"] Haha avait trop peur d'essayer de telles choses. L'équilibre consiste simplement à essayer de déterminer si les deux côtés du même modèle sont suffisamment proches les uns des autres, sans même parler de toute une autre paire. Je joue habituellement de la musique mono pour cela ou des sons de test. Décalage de gauche à droite en termes de concentration. Pure folie.
Hmm est le côté gauche plus bas que le droit, ou est-ce mes trous d'oreilles asymétriques ou moitiés de cerveau.






[/CITATION]

It's very useful when they have same sensibility
 We can hear the big difference or same thing.


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## SHAMuuu

TechnoidFR said:


> [QUOTE = "SHAMuuu, post: 14731103, member: 377265"] Haha avait trop peur d'essayer de telles choses. L'équilibre consiste simplement à essayer de déterminer si les deux côtés du même modèle sont suffisamment proches les uns des autres, sans même parler de toute une autre paire. Je joue habituellement de la musique mono pour cela ou des sons de test. Décalage de gauche à droite en termes de concentration. Pure folie.
> Hmm est le côté gauche plus bas que le droit, ou est-ce mes trous d'oreilles asymétriques ou moitiés de cerveau.
> 
> 
> ...



Yes i can see your point.

I don't know if anyone is into cymatics, but for me multiple BA feels like Ruben's tube, and DD like a Tesla Coil bolt to ears, and the 
hybrid iems like a combination. I think some might understand this, hehe






I think i can feel the difference. I hope not imagination.


----------



## Nimweth

SybilLance said:


> CCA C10 Impressions Update (_vis-à-vis_ The KZ ZSN):
> 
> 
> 
> ...





SybilLance said:


> CCA C10 Impressions Update (_vis-à-vis_ The KZ ZSN):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! That's a very detailed and complete appraisal. I am going to post my review of the C10 today, but your "dissertation" has put it to shame! Still, it's always helpful to have many different views on a subject and some varying musical examples. However, I like you, now feel that the C10 is my current favourite.


----------



## Slater

Scaven said:


> Just got the ZS7, they sound good, but holy driver flex batman!! I can't get a good seal because of it.
> 
> I also think the ZSN sound better, especially in the treble .



To combat driver flex, try holding your mouth open when you insert the IEM. Then, when it’s situated, close your mouth.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

zern_c said:


> Ed29689 for the mids should give good detail


lol, thats a Bellsing or KZ custom 29689 not knowles 29689


----------



## dhruvmeena96

well can somebody compare zs10 to cca c10


----------



## Dobrescu George

dhruvmeena96 said:


> well can somebody compare zs10 to cca c10



I think I will be doing this comparison later on actually  

I have ZS10 and I'm going to get CCA C10 sometime in the near future.


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 22, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Hakuzen, thanks for your efforts! Really appreciated, as I used your measurements and graphs together with your recommendations to get the proper ear tips for my red ZS6 (medium-to-wide bore ball-shaped foams). They were perfect and made the ZS6 my favorite and best in-ears, even with the arrival of the ZSN. The CCA C10 now occupies that position.
> 
> 
> Oh! Is that 800 Hz distortion spike audible?


thanks for your appreciation!
hope that distortion isn't audible. only right driver shows distortion above 1% (~3.3%, equivalent to ~0.3dB) in my case.
guess it would affect sounds at that frequency (it's a narrow range), in the form of adding some grain, blur, while creating an illusion of thicker sound. i don't think it will be noticeable (should isolate that frequency and listen, to know if i'm able to distinguish any difference).
but it's important to take it in account in the case of planning to boost that region by equalizing (or other type of tonal alteration, like bass boosts).
in fact, bet most kz hybrids have that issue. found it in zs7 because now i'm able to measure distortion more accurately. i'll measure THD of other kz to check it.



SybilLance said:


> CCA C10 Impressions Update (_vis-à-vis_ The KZ ZSN):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow! thank you so much for this superb review (have you posted it at reviews section?).
think this is the most detailed sound review i've ever read. this is a true graphical, educative, and intelligible review, out of topic adjectives. wish everyone (me included, of course) could have the ability and kindness to express the sound by such hyper detailed exquisite way. so helpful! i've added C10 to the basket..
i bookmark your impressions and reviews, because they include all the info i search for.

btw, check this informal measurements of toneking t4 frequency response (i have to redo them more accurately). they are my fav iem for vocals, due to the lack of coloration (natural tone and timbre), their clarity and resolution.

most iem start to climb before 2kHz, and reach +10-15dB around 3.5kHz (according to diffuse field or harman target curve). these don't.
most people want thicker, lush, more bodied vocals, but i found these thinner vocals the most natural, female voices specially. it's like listening to a singer who isn't using a microphone, with clarity.

attending to this, and after looking zs7 vs zs6 FR, upper mids and low highs (female vocals, guitars, etc.) are more forwarded in zs7, but also more colored probably, even shouty sometimes. rest of mids, in graph, look identical.
now i ought to listen to zs7 way more, instead of reading the graphs..


----------



## BoZ29

Isn’t he the one- Princess Freesia
Just listen to the bass of the zs7 
Never ever had an in earphone that had such a fun bass.... just wow.


----------



## Nimweth

dhruvmeena96 said:


> well can somebody compare zs10 to cca c10


Hello
I have made a brief comparison in my CCAC10 review here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-c10.23517/reviews

I hope this is helpful.


----------



## Antenne

What a coincidence! Have just spent some time unsuccessful with the search for the stock ZSN tips and then read the posts here. The generic ones on AliExpress are very different inside. The ZSN tips have an inside diameter of about 4.5mm (Starline 4mm) and also a small groove inside. I had used the pair from the ZSN for the Audbos P4 and now I'm looking for replacement ...
The included starlines do not fit very well.
I hope someone finds a source.


----------



## canzz (Jan 21, 2019)

Cruelhand Luke said:


> I would get the ZSN...I also use the ES3 as my daily...well that and a ZSA. The ZSN fits really well, the cable is better, and the sound is wonderful...warmer than ZSA or ZS5, better detail and clarity than the ES3....it's a very good KZ IEM, it does a lot of things right.





maxxevv said:


> If you like the ZS6 except for the sibilance part, the AS10 and ZS10 are both excellent upgrades. They both have the detail and clarity of the ZS6 without its majorly obvious sibilance. BUT .. they are also different.  I have all 3 of them
> 
> The AS10 is essentially ZS6 minus sibilance and a somewhat less expansive sound stage.  It will still show up the sibilance IF its inherent in the recording though.  Its very good fitting and doesn't require much if any amping to sound good. The base source must be good of course to begin with. It will show noise at low volumes if your source is not clean.  Its that sensitive
> The ZS10 is a bit darker sounding compared to the ZS6. But absolutely zero sibilance unless its really, really bad in the recorded track.
> ...





khighly said:


> I'm a DNB & Trance head, AS10 will do you great. It's a lot warmer than the ZS6. ZS10 is also a fantastic all-arounder with giant sound stage, but AS10 is A+ for EDM. If you don't have the budget, ZSN will definitely be my third suggestion.





jeromeaparis said:


> If you find the ZS6 too bright, maybe you will not like the ZSN, The ZSN has more details than ZS6, with very few sibilance after short burnin, but the mediums and low trebles are brighter than ZS6. You could try the ES4, it gives very natural voices, trebles are soft, the sound is dynamic, but not bright as the ZSN. I like it very much, it is realy better than ES3 that I found to give artificial recessed voices. https://www.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1838201.html ES4 should be used with "whirl wide bore" tips or better the optional KZ twisted "iron grey" color (silver plated) (not the silver color cable that sounds not so good with ES4) https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-Z...Argent-Plaqu-Haute-puret-OFC/32832034285.html with this cable, the sound is realy great, otherwise there are too buch bass
> My ZS6, after maybe 200hrs burnin gives a warm sound, and sibilance is much reduced with time. My ZS6 when compared has less details and is less bright than my ZSN
> I will receive an AS10 very soon , from what I heard here, it could combine soft & detailed sound with enough punch...



After a long wait (because of the strike at Canada Post), I got my *AS10* last week. It sounded a bit weird right out of the box but it noticeably changed after a little burn-in.






This thing is beautiful!  Cable is comfy, fit is good and It sounds great overall. Treble is smooth with no sibilance, great instrument separation and it has great clarity, however, I think this is not the best choice for me as I feel fatigued after a long listen on hard-hitting genres I frequently listen to. It is still a delight to listen music with them though, just not the best performer with my music IMO.

So I decided to order something else.

My main complaint about the *ZS6 *(my first KZ) was sibilance and I am exited to see the developments on the *ZS7*. Since it is not available on Gearbest yet and some issues such as unsoldered wires etc is being discussed right now, i decided to order a *ES4* (I used *ES3* previously) as I wait. I considered ordering a *ZSN *as well but the reviews I read felt like it would be too bright for my taste. I dont know, Its fairly inexpensive and has very high reputation so I might just order one I am not sure. Anyway, I am excited! 

By the way, I am not much of a collector myself so I might actually sell the *AS10*, if anyone around me (Ontario/Canada) is interested.

Edit: grammar :/


----------



## Aparker2005

Been away from this forum way too long. Already behind on things lol. 

Currently using the as10 and zs10. Does kz have an 8 driver on the horizon soon? I've been seeing good reviews for the c16. Tempted to try it out!


----------



## Cruelhand Luke

canzz said:


> After a long wait (because of the strike at Canada Post), I got my *AS10* last week. It sounded a bit weird right out of the box but it noticeably changed after a little burn-in
> 
> This thing is beautiful!  Cable is comfy, fit is good and It sounds great overall. Treble is smooth with no sibilance, great instrument separation and it has great clarity, however, I think this is not the best choice for me as I feel fatigued after a long listen on hard-hitting genres I frequently listen to. It is still a delight to listen music with them though, just not the best performer with my music IMO.
> 
> ...


I don't find the ZSN to be particularly bright...compared to my ZS5 for example the treble is smoother.


----------



## alex5908

BoZ29 said:


> Never ever had an in earphone that had such a fun bass.... just wow.


Could you specify what you meant by "a fun bass"?
I am choosing one of those AS10 or ZS7. I am a basshead. What do you think is better for me?


----------



## AncientSw0rd

alex5908 said:


> Could you specify what you meant by "a fun bass"?
> I am choosing one of those AS10 or ZS7. I am a basshead. What do you think is better for me?



ZS07


----------



## alex5908

AncientSw0rd said:


> ZS07


Could you specify it a little? Why?


----------



## AncientSw0rd

I posted a while back on the as10 vs zs07. I would choose as10 for rock and zs07 for edm/rap. I don't do much rap but the zs07 does better bass for these styles IMO. Dynamic driver hybrid beats the BA's in the as10 for bass depth and thump. The as10 sounds cleaner and tighter to me on rock, the way I prefer it.


----------



## EDG67

canzz said:


> After a long wait (because of the strike at Canada Post), I got my *AS10* last week. It sounded a bit weird right out of the box but it noticeably changed after a little burn-in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## EDG67

To my ears the ZSN has nice highs but isn't overly bright. No sibilance and is very well balanced.Highly recommended!


----------



## alex5908

How 'bout ZS3E for a basshead? Does anybody here have them?


----------



## SybilLance

Nimweth said:


> Wow! That's a very detailed and complete appraisal. I am going to post my review of the C10 today, but your "dissertation" has put it to shame! Still, it's always helpful to have many different views on a subject and some varying musical examples. However, I like you, now feel that the C10 is my current favourite.



Thanks for the kind words. I agree on the need and value of feedback coming from different views and tastes. Probably didn't realize it at first but my references cited to highlight particular characteristics of the C10 indeed are mostly jazz or jazz-related tracks and albums, while yours focused on classical. The C10 really does both genres quite well.



hakuzen said:


> thanks for your appreciation!
> hope that distortion isn't audible. only right driver shows distortion above 1% (~3.3%, equivalent to ~0.3dB) in my case.
> guess it would affect sounds at that frequency (it's a narrow range), in the form of adding some grain, blur, while creating an illusion of thicker sound. i don't think it will be noticeable (should isolate that frequency and listen, to know if i'm able to distinguish any difference).
> but it's important to take it in account in the case of planning to boost that region by equalizing (or other type of tonal alteration, like bass boosts).
> ...



It's good your measurements made us aware of this 800 Hz distortion spike in the ZS7. Thanks. As you said it's a narrow enough range, but your hypothesis that the crossover is the culprit is sufficient for me to be concerned: 1) Being a KZ cousin, so to speak, there's a high probability that my current best in-ears the C10 shares the same crossover design as the rest of the KZ DD + BA hybrids including the ZS7—as we're all too aware of KZ's penchant for these things; 2) TechnoidFR's concise and persuasive account of the similarity in the sound signature of the ZS7 and the C10 is a good anecdotal support for such shared crossover; and 3) it may indeed be audible. 

Looking closely at your ZS7 FR graph, there's that solitary squiggle at 800 Hz in an otherwise smooth midrange trough, particularly in the right earpiece. There's also that notable 800 Hz protrusion in an otherwise straight line in its impedance graph, again prominent in the right earpiece. 

The C10 responds very well to EQ and although its midrange is good enough for me, I'll nevertheless remember to steer clear of any tweaking that will affect that 800 Hz range.

Thanks, too, for your generous words re: my C10 impressions. I didn't intend for it to be a review; it has a specific point of reference for comparison and as stated, it is an update of my initial impressions of the C10. This means there might be other updates in the future wherein my impressions might _change_. As such, it's more fitting that its residence be in this thread.

A last thank you for bringing my attention to the Toneking T4. I'm currently on the lookout for a higher-tier IEM with a distinctively different sound signature (not intended for me). 

The T4 is at the same price point as the Moondrop Kanas Pro, but from your FR graph the T4 _is_ different. That midrange does not dip by more than 3 dB from the bass and that slow rise to what appears to be a restrained treble, + that extension definitely does not hew to the Harman Preference Target curve for in-ears. I find your description of its sound, particularly your simile where its thinner vocals give you the impression of a personal listening session with the singer, quite intriguing.

And yes, you should listen to the ZS7 more, so that you could share your impressions with us. Let's not forget, after all, "...that acoustical quality is basically defined by subjective sound impressions." — quoting Peter Damaske, from the Preface and General Introduction of his book, _Acoustics and Hearing_ (Springer, 2008).


----------



## BoZ29

alex5908 said:


> Could you specify it a little? Why?


Well, it has this deep low 30-40 hz bass and also this punchy upper bass that together makes a great fundament in almost every jazz and funk/fusion song. As I have the zs7 for almost a week now, I am still impressed every time I listen to them. As I don’t believe in burn in time, I have to admit that this zs7 is getting better day by day.


----------



## Nimweth

SybilLance said:


> Thanks for the kind words. I agree on the need and value of feedback coming from different views and tastes. Probably didn't realize it at first but my references cited to highlight particular characteristics of the C10 indeed are mostly jazz or jazz-related tracks and albums, while yours focused on classical. The C10 really does both genres quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The jazz reference is a coincidence, I was listening to "Air on a G string" by Jacques Loussier yesterday and the reproduction of the piano, bass and drums was astonishing. These C10s really do give a taste of what I imagine would be the high end, (although I am not fortunate enough to have been able to afford or have heard such things!). The C10 seems to imbue the music with a "live" feel and a wonderful soundstage and ambience, it is very satisfying.


----------



## TechnoidFR

hakuzen said:


> *KZ ZS7 measurements*
> *
> Gear and conditions*
> Gear: ADC EMU-0404 USB + JDSLabs C5D amplifier + IEC-60318-4 (711) couplers and mic + SPL meter, all calibrated (the best i could..).
> ...



When I see the zs6 / zs7 comparison I don't hear the same thing. They are totally different in quality, smoothness, render etc. Example there is absolutely no sibilance or ageessive treble

And when I put zs6 they sounds like toy


----------



## skajohyros

I absolutely adore the soundstage of my zs5 v1. How do the CCA c10 compare? Is it as holographic?
Thanks


----------



## CoiL (Jan 22, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> After comparison between ZS7 and c10
> My conclusion is : They are very very closed.
> - Same sensibility
> - Same signature
> ...


You should upgrade Your source gear/amping  Just sayin...



hakuzen said:


> *KZ ZS7 measurements*
> *
> Gear and conditions*
> Gear: ADC EMU-0404 USB + JDSLabs C5D amplifier + IEC-60318-4 (711) couplers and mic + SPL meter, all calibrated (the best i could..).
> ...


Thanks for measurements!
Instead C10 (if I understood Your IEM sound signature wishes correctly), maybe consider new Auglamour F300? They seem to be tuned really well for 35$ IEM and use titanium composite 1-DD.



skajohyros said:


> I absolutely adore the soundstage of my zs5 v1. How do the CCA c10 compare? Is it as holographic?
> Thanks


Same question. I do not plan to get C10 but curious about it.


----------



## barocka (Jan 22, 2019)

skajohyros said:


> I absolutely adore the soundstage of my zs5 v1. How do the CCA c10 compare? Is it as holographic?
> Thanks



*Holophonic Sound - The Realistic Sounds*
It is hard to explain, but the recorded sound produced in this way is so realistic that some people claim they can smell sulfur when they listen to a holophonic recording of someone striking a match. The Holophonic Sound waves appear to stimulate the brain to reproduce very realistic and three dimensional sounds within us. That includes stimulating other responses within us like sensations and smells that usually accompany a sound.

If I give ZS5 v1 *Holophonic Sound* score of 100, I have to give c10 80 points.   So I gave my C10 to my son and I returned to the ZS5 v1.  And now I'm curious about KANAS PRO's  *Holophonic Sound* score.


----------



## hakuzen (Jan 22, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Thanks for the kind words. I agree on the need and value of feedback coming from different views and tastes. Probably didn't realize it at first but my references cited to highlight particular characteristics of the C10 indeed are mostly jazz or jazz-related tracks and albums, while yours focused on classical. The C10 really does both genres quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yea, that crossover isn't a perfect tuned one. i've ordered C10; i'll measure them to check, and post.
you can use impedance curve to locate where are the different crossovers located. in the case of this 800Hz crossover, it also affects to distortion and even frequency response (~1dB small dip). my most worry is about distortion. anyway, i don't consider it a deal breaker.
tuning is cheap at kz and related brands. but that's why they can set so low prices compared to others. not knowles drivers, not tubing nor damping, not fine tuned crossovers, more QC issues.. but good sounding at amazing prices.
EDIT: yes, i'm trying to find vocals like in t4's. i have to listen to flc8s and mr3 again to check if vocals are comparable. found the timbre so natural that i made that simile of personal listening to the singer. don't know if that's a good simile, but vocals are special with these, definitely.

got toneking t4 for $110 before 11.11 at hotfi ali shop. and it has turned to be my best deal of the year.
the mids i most enjoy use to have a decent level at 1-1.5kHz, compared to other frequencies, and moderated ramp till 4kHz. the 3 best iems in my stock share that behavior: FLC8s, Pai Audio MR3, and Toneking T4.
t4 is bright, due to combination of flat response with peaks at 6kHz and 8kHz. don't know all the reasons behind, but find t4 delicious. when listening music with them, i feel an immediate "eargasm". so clear and delicate.
however, they are not appropriated for EDM and similar, because of their low bass extension.
i'll next get a more harman approach with moondrop to compare mids. ordered kanas pro, but cancelled; i'll aim to blessing or a8, instead. but i'm afraid they won't be so appealing to me than my top 3 mentioned.



TechnoidFR said:


> When I see the zs6 / zs7 comparison I don't hear the same thing. They are totally different in quality, smoothness, render etc. Example there is absolutely no sibilance or ageessive treble
> 
> And when I put zs6 they sounds like toy


FR don't tell the whole thing. it doesn't show resolution nor many other important attributes. and, of course, it doesn't show the subjective part of our perception.
i only posted FR comparison and never said they are the same thing. zs6 with tapped sub-bass vent shows same tonality in lows and mids.
but the excessive peak at 10kHz of zs6 makes them sound brighter and colored overall (guess that's why they sound like a toy to you, and that's why we deeply discussed how to tame that peak).
while the more upper-mids/low-highs quantity in zs7 enhances upper-mids respect zs6 (once tamed 10kHz peak which alter overall perception, upper-mids included). that's why i speculated with upper-mids forwarding, coloration, and sibilance.
to me, none of them sound particularly sibilant, but some people are very sensible to that matter. considering that there isn't 6kHz peak in them, 8kHz peak could be the most culprit of sibilance, if any. and both shows same peak.



CoiL said:


> Thanks for measurements!
> Instead C10 (if I understood Your IEM sound signature wishes correctly), maybe consider new Auglamour F300? They seem to be tuned really well for 35$ IEM and use titanium composite 1-DD.
> 
> Same question. I do not plan to get C10 but curious about it.


late, ordered C10 yesterday (together with sony mh755)..  but i'll put an eye on f300, thanks!


----------



## 424358

Anyone know if the zs6 and zs7 outside shell is interchangeable?


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> CCA C10 Impressions Update (_vis-à-vis_ The KZ ZSN):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Incredible details on your write up!...Nicely done!


----------



## flaminius

Need some advice for new pair of kz's. Now I have kz zs5v1, which sounds very good to me. I have small ears, so the fit isto uncomfortable for me when using multiple hours. The shell is bit to big and has corners that hurt my ear. I haven't checked the new kz's in a long time so I'm lost. The KZ ZSN seems pretty good. Can anybody tell how the fit is compered to ZS5?


----------



## Sylmar

I'm so glad I kept some extra brass ED9 filters. They sound totally fantastic with the Sendiy M2 (the real one, not the bogus one).


----------



## Sylmar

flaminius said:


> Need some advice for new pair of kz's. Now I have kz zs5v1, which sounds very good to me. I have small ears, so the fit isto uncomfortable for me when using multiple hours. The shell is bit to big and has corners that hurt my ear. I haven't checked the new kz's in a long time so I'm lost. The KZ ZSN seems pretty good. Can anybody tell how the fit is compered to ZS5?



The fit of ZSN is much much better than ZS5 in my case. I couldn't stand the ZS5 as after wearing it for a while I got sore ears but the ZSN remains comfortably in my ears without any problems.


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> Incredible details on your write up!...Nicely done!


Thanks! The next in-ear in _my_ horizon is that ~$25 3-driver piezoelectric hybrid you've recommended. Waiting for your further impressions on that one. The higher-tiers i'm on the lookout for is for a gift. To be honest though I'm fully satisfied with the C10. Truly great all-rounder. Using it all the time. Including watching Australian Open tennis. Would love to see Serena and Rafa in the finals.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 22, 2019)

I just got the black zsn and I think it sounds better than the copper cable purple. The purple sounds more fun but the black sounds more natural and i think it can be used for longer listening sessions as it'll be less tiring on the ears.

After listening to the black ZSN and even though I have the AS10 i am like, what's the point of buying another earphone?


----------



## SybilLance

flaminius said:


> Need some advice for new pair of kz's. Now I have kz zs5v1, which sounds very good to me. I have small ears, so the fit isto uncomfortable for me when using multiple hours. The shell is bit to big and has corners that hurt my ear. I haven't checked the new kz's in a long time so I'm lost. The KZ ZSN seems pretty good. Can anybody tell how the fit is compered to ZS5?


I have both. We have the same problem as regards comfort because I have small cup-shaped ears. At first I could listen to at most an album of music with the ZS5v1. Then I slowly adjusted. When the similar ZS6 came the discomfort became milder and milder until I don't mind it anymore. The ZSN are like custom-built for my ears. So comfortable they disappear in the ears moments after you insert them and what remains is your music. Then you enjoy.


----------



## alex5908

Sylmar said:


> They sound totally fantastic with the Sendiy M2


Do you mean M1221?


----------



## eclein

Anybody heard or read about the CCA C16?
I’m very curious about it because I’m a sucker for multiple drivers!!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> The ZSN are like custom-built for my ears. So comfortable they disappear in the ears moments after you insert them and what remains is your music.


I don't hear any SybiLance on my ZSN so I doubt they were custom-built for your ears.


----------



## Slater

misterchao said:


> Anyone know if the zs6 and zs7 outside shell is interchangeable?



I will let you know once mine arrives. I plan on swapping face plates with one of my other ZS6.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> I will let you know once mine arrives. I plan on swapping face plates with one of my other ZS6.



Let me know where that extra wire goes as well! It's driving me nuts!


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Let me know where that extra wire goes as well! It's driving me nuts!



Will do.

My fingers are crossed that my ZS7 will have all the wires connected. Then we can get to the bottom of this loose wire business, and the owners that have disconnected wires can finally know the proper location to repair theirs.


----------



## SybilLance

eclein said:


> Anybody heard or read about the CCA C16?
> I’m very curious about it because I’m a sucker for multiple drivers!!



No feedback yet, I'm afraid. I'm curious as well. From that high initial pre-order price of ~$143 to ~$139 to the current low of $93.13 (no mic), AliExpress retail prices greatly vary. And considering the considerable drop in prices in so short a time, I think there's a possibility for it to drop further. Perhaps it'll eventually settle at $80ish and perhaps that's what many are waiting for. At that price range all it takes are 2 or 3 positive feedbacks and then...

CCA sure made a mistake with their initial pricing, didn't they? 



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't hear any SybiLance on my ZSN so I doubt they were custom-built for your ears.


Lol! But you didn't get it right. As my 1st Grade schoolteacher used to say, "Wrong spelling—wrong!"


----------



## drey101

SybilLance said:


> No feedback yet, I'm afraid. I'm curious as well. From that high initial pre-order price of ~$143 to ~$139 to the current low of $93.13 (no mic), AliExpress retail prices greatly vary. And considering the considerable drop in prices in so short a time, I think there's a possibility for it to drop further. Perhaps it'll eventually settle at $80ish and perhaps that's what many are waiting for. At that price range all it takes are 2 or 3 positive feedbacks and then...
> 
> CCA sure made a mistake with their initial pricing, didn't they?
> 
> ...


The price drop occurred when someone here reached out to one of the sellers saying that the initial price was too expensive and that 100 USD is more reasonable. That feedback spread out and that's why there is a severe price reduction... but only for that store I think? For the other stores, the price is still at around 119 when I just checked right now. Like you said though, it probably would go lower and until it does people might not buy it (unless they get convinced by the CCA C10). Regardless, it still is the cheapest 8 BA driver iem per bud there is currently though.

I think they shot themselves in the foot twice, the first time when they priced the C10 so low, and this being the second time, when they priced the C16 so high. Pricing the C10 so low put the image in people's minds CCA is a budget brand, one that would keep pushing out products below 100 USD. it may have served their brand image better if they priced the C10 a little bit higher when it first came out, although they might not have been able to sell it as much. Maybe the correct option on their part was to release an intermediate model first, something like a C12 (6ba) or C14 (7ba or 1dd+6 ba) , placed between the C10 and C16, priced at around 50-80 USD.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 23, 2019)

drey101 said:


> The price drop occurred when someone here reached out to one of the sellers saying that the initial price was too expensive and that 100 USD is more reasonable. That feedback spread out and that's why there is a severe price reduction... but only for that store I think? For the other stores, the price is still at around 119 when I just checked right now. Like you said though, it probably would go lower and until it does people might not buy it (unless they get convinced by the CCA C10). Regardless, it still is the cheapest 8 BA driver iem per bud there is currently though.
> 
> I think they shot themselves in the foot twice, the first time when they priced the C10 so low, and this being the second time, when they priced the C16 so high. Pricing the C10 so low put the image in people's minds CCA is a budget brand, one that would keep pushing out products below 100 USD. it may have served their brand image better if they priced the C10 a little bit higher when it first came out, although they might not have been able to sell it as much. Maybe the correct option on their part was to release an intermediate model first, something like a C12 (6ba) or C14 (7ba or 1dd+6 ba) , placed between the C10 and C16, priced at around 50-80 USD.


At least 3 AliExpress stores are retailing the no-mic version of the C16 below $100, with the lowest at ~$93, all with free shipping (well, to SE Asia) right now. Search CCA C16 then tap Price: Low to High. Can't post the link because it may be a banned store and I'm toast. 

Edit: Mistakenly placed C10 for C16.


----------



## drey101 (Jan 23, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> At least 3 AliExpress stores are retailing the no-mic version of the C10 below $100, with the lowest at ~$93, all with free shipping (well, to SE Asia) right now. Search CCA C10 then tap Price: Low to High. Can't post the link because it may be a banned store and I'm toast.


Well that is interesting, I just did what you said (went to Aliexpress, typed `CCA C16`, ordered by price) and again, only two stores showed up as < 100 USD for me   Technically, it's only one store coz while the banned name is listed on the item, checking the store where it's being sold out showed it's by the same store as the other store selling it below 100 USD. @.@

Is pricing for aliexpress inconsistent? :O


----------



## SybilLance

drey101 said:


> Well that is interesting, I just did what you said (went to Aliexpress, typed `CCA C16`, ordered by price) and again, only two stores showed up as < 100 USD for me   Technically, it's only one store coz while the banned name is listed on the item, checking the store where it's being sold out showed it's by the same store as the other store selling it below 100 USD. @.@
> 
> Is pricing for aliexpress inconsistent? :O


Oh! I'm using the AliExpress mobile app. You could get lower prices and exclusive offers with it. Here's the screenshot:


----------



## kennyhack

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got the black zsn and I think it sounds better than the copper cable purple. The purple sounds more fun but the black sounds more natural and i think it can be used for longer listening sessions as it'll be less tiring on the ears.
> 
> After listening to the black ZSN and even though I have the AS10 i am like, what's the point of buying another earphone?


I feel exactly the same as you. I bought the purple ZSN (with clear copper cable) and even though I liked the clarity and resolution that the clear copper cable gave the ZSN, I decided to switch to the dark copper cable (the one that comes with black & cyan ZSN) and I found that sound is more natural (not as detailed, though) but I find it much easier to listen, and sibilances and harsh peaks literally disappear with the dark copper cable.


----------



## BoZ29

SybilLance said:


> At least 3 AliExpress stores are retailing the no-mic version of the C10 below $100, with the lowest at ~$93, all with free shipping (well, to SE Asia) right now. Search CCA C10 then tap Price: Low to High. Can't post the link because it may be a banned store and I'm toast.


. You mean C16


----------



## Sylmar (Jan 23, 2019)

alex5908 said:


> Do you mean M1221?



They are these ones:






I hope KZ will be bringing single driver units as well.


----------



## SybilLance

BoZ29 said:


> . You mean C16


Shoot! Thanks for pointing it out. Corrected.


----------



## LUCILLE667

ZS7 arrived today. First impression, better sub bass extension than ZS6, and less upper treble, which gave the 6 that airy and open sound. Imaging are similar and sounstage is similar.  I don't have much problem with the treble on the ZS6, so I find the treble on the ZS7 to be a bit shy.  Second impression is driver flex on the right ear. I've had driver flex before with both the 5 and 6 that went away with use, so I hope it will be the case for the 7. 
I also opened it up to check (since the right face plate is a bit misaligned with the body). There's definitely an disconnected wire in there, but mine was tucked away under the cross-over board. I believe that wire is intentional, but for what purpose it serves I don't know.


----------



## CoiL

LaughMoreDaily said:


> After listening to the black ZSN and even though I have the AS10 i am like, what's the point of buying another earphone?


I give You reason - get IEM that`s closer to Harman Target curve  
And instead getting C10 (which should be better than ZSN) try out ~35$ Auglamour F300 (titanium composite single dynamic). I have one in Penon basket waiting for hit button.


----------



## BoZ29

LUCILLE667 said:


> ZS7 arrived today. First impression, better sub bass extension than ZS6, and less upper treble, which gave the 6 that airy and open sound. Imaging are similar and sounstage is similar.  I don't have much problem with the treble on the ZS6, so I find the treble on the ZS7 to be a bit shy.  Second impression is driver flex on the right ear. I've had driver flex before with both the 5 and 6 that went away with use, so I hope it will be the case for the 7.
> I also opened it up to check (since the right face plate is a bit misaligned with the body). There's definitely an disconnected wire in there, but mine was tucked away under the cross-over board. I believe that wire is intentional, but for what purpose it serves I don't know.


I have the same experience with zs7, but I couldn’t live with the zs6 without equalization because of the piercing treble. The zs7 doesn’t have that, so for me this is just what I wanted. Even the trumpet of Roy Hargrove in Stasbourg/st Denis stays in balance, while my eyes pop out with the zs6


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jan 23, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> No feedback yet, I'm afraid. I'm curious as well. From that high initial pre-order price of ~$143 to ~$139 to the current low of $93.13 (no mic), AliExpress retail prices greatly vary. And considering the considerable drop in prices in so short a time, I think there's a possibility for it to drop further. Perhaps it'll eventually settle at $80ish and perhaps that's what many are waiting for. At that price range all it takes are 2 or 3 positive feedbacks and then...
> 
> CCA sure made a mistake with their initial pricing, didn't they?



I suspect that's the usual KZ pricing scheme. They set an MSRP with their official store, but don't care how much resellers sells them for, so sellers have an incentive to get KZ stuff in stock/sale, basically the classic China way of undercutting their rivals. I mean, if buyers can get something from the official store at the same price as others, why bother buying anywhere else, especially online.

people in SEA have been able to get KZ stuff for much, much cheaper since the very beginning from direct resellers on shopee/lazada. Heck, from the get-go, the KZ ZSN sells for $12 here on release.


----------



## Slater

Anyone in the US that hates their ZS6 and wants to sell it, shoot me a PM.


----------



## alex5908 (Jan 23, 2019)

Sylmar said:


> They are these ones:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow,these different fom mine. M1221 are my best iems. How much are yours? How do they sound?

KZ ZS3E has just one dynamic driver. I'm gonna buy them. They are dirt cheap and bassy. A lot of people are more than impressed.


----------



## BrunoC (Jan 23, 2019)

I just received the KZ ZS7.

After 2h listening I must say it's amazing. I loved the ZS5 v1 and ZS6, but this ZS7 has got a better coeherence across all frequencies. Amazing textured fast bass, lush mids and natural treble that mantains the details. All that with excellent separation. Great tuning no doubt!
The music just flows well, sounding natural IMO.

I almost had tears in my eyes listening to Exit Music (For A Film) by Radiohead. Ridiculous!


----------



## Sylmar

alex5908 said:


> Wow,these different fom mine. M1221 are my best iems. How much are yours? How do they sound?
> 
> KZ ZS3E has just one dynamic driver. I'm gonna buy them. They are dirt cheap and bassy. A lot of people are more than impressed.



With the brass filter of the KZ09 they sound very clear but not sibilant at all. Kind of a neutral 'analogue' sound. Definitely not basshead though. I'm not the best in describing sound. 

Could you please write your impressions after getting the ZS3E? I would be interested to know how the sound is.


----------



## barocka

BrunoC said:


> I just received the KZ ZS7.
> 
> After 2h listening I must say it's amazing. I loved the ZS5 v1 and ZS6, but this ZS7 has got a better coeherence across all frequencies. Amazing textured fast bass, lush mids and natural treble that mantains the details. All that with excellent separation. Great tuning no doubt!
> The music just flows well, sounding natural IMO.
> ...



How similar is the sound of zs7 to the sound of zs5 v1?


----------



## Aparker2005

When is the kz 8 driver coming? Very tempted to try these cc16s


----------



## AncientSw0rd

CoiL said:


> I give You reason - get IEM that`s closer to Harman Target curve
> And instead getting C10 (which should be better than ZSN) try out ~35$ Auglamour F300 (titanium composite single dynamic). I have one in Penon basket waiting for hit button.



I ordered the f300 this morning to try out. Interested to see how they sound after looking at their graph.


----------



## PhonoPhi

CoiL said:


> I give You reason - get IEM that`s closer to Harman Target curve
> And instead getting C10 (which should be better than ZSN) try out ~35$ Auglamour F300 (titanium composite single dynamic). I have one in Penon basket waiting for hit button.


No one listens to curves and graphs per se!
Harman targets describe some average preferences ("most preferred"), and not for IEMs originally.

The frequency response does not include very important characteristics of response time and decay. These curves would favour DD unfairly since responding at single frequency is much simpler than for complex (real) music. It is difficult for me (personally and perhaps subjectively) to grasp how a single membrane can reproduce 10-octave range without interference and  distortions.


----------



## Slater (Jan 23, 2019)

alex5908 said:


> KZ ZS3E has just one dynamic driver. I'm gonna buy them. They are dirt cheap and bassy. A lot of people are more than impressed.



Are these people on HF, or some other place like Reddit? Because I have yet to find one HF member that has actually bought the new “E” version, and reported on it. There has been speculation, based on the same driver being used in the ZS4. But nothing ZS3E-specific that I’ve ever seen.

I’ve been waiting on reports before buying a set myself. So if you have more info, links, etc I’d love to check them out 

Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Jan 23, 2019)

BrunoC said:


> I just received the KZ ZS7.
> 
> After 2h listening I must say it's amazing. I loved the ZS5 v1 and ZS6, but this ZS7 has got a better coeherence across all frequencies. Amazing textured fast bass, lush mids and natural treble that mantains the details. All that with excellent separation. Great tuning no doubt!
> The music just flows well, sounding natural IMO.
> ...



Would you be willing to remove the back cover, and see if yours has the loose wire that’s not connected to anything?

I’m trying to determine if there is a correlation between glowing sonic performance such as yours, and whether that person’s ZS7 has the detached gold wire (or not).

You only need to remove 2 of the 3 screws (the long ones, as the short one is fake and for looks only).


----------



## alex5908

Slater said:


> So if you have more info, links, etc I’d love to check them out


It's just 9 bucks at aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/af/KZ-ZS3E.html


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> It's just 9 bucks at aliexpress.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/af/KZ-ZS3E.html



Yeah, but I was hoping to read about them 1st, as I own too many IEMs as it is.

I’ve been anxiously waiting for someone to buy them and report on them, before deciding to order a set myself.

That’s why when you said that people were saying they were “_bassy and a lot of people were more than impressed”, _I was excited to read the comments/reviews info you found.

Are you sure you weren’t reading about the ZS3 or ZS4, and not the new ZS3E?


----------



## Wiljen

eclein said:


> Anybody heard or read about the CCA C16?
> I’m very curious about it because I’m a sucker for multiple drivers!!



Got one on the way now.  Hope to have it shortly.


----------



## Wiljen

barocka said:


> How similar is the sound of zs7 to the sound of zs5 v1?



not very -  the Zs7 has a different treble and upper mids than the Zs5 (either version).


----------



## Drake_Mallard

Though I'm satisfied with how my ZS7 sounds; I'm interested in checking inside it to see if there's anything wrong though I'm afraid of stripping the chinese made screws. Which type of screwdriver did you guys use to open it up and where can I get one?


----------



## AncientSw0rd (Jan 23, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> No one listens to curves and graphs per se!
> Harman targets describe some average preferences ("most preferred"), and not for IEMs originally.
> 
> The frequency response does not include very important characteristics of response time and decay. These curves would favour DD unfairly since responding at single frequency is much simpler than for complex (real) music. It is difficult for me (personally and perhaps subjectively) to grasp how a single membrane can reproduce 10-octave range without interference and  distortions.



In another thread where Wiljen posted graphs, he also said that those f300 sounded pretty good. I wasn't just going off of the graph.


----------



## Zerohour88

AncientSw0rd said:


> In another thread where the guy posted graphs, he also said that those f300 sound pretty good. I wasn't just going off of the graph.



yup, I ordered one too (since wiljen has done nothing so far to make me question his reviews), but I suppose we should keep non-KZ stuff to the relevant threads since that's the purpose of segregating them in the first place.


----------



## BoZ29

Drake_Mallard said:


> Though I'm satisfied with how my ZS7 sounds; I'm interested in checking inside it to see if there's anything wrong though I'm afraid of stripping the chinese made screws. Which type of screwdriver did you guys use to open it up and where can I get one?


You need a very small torx (6 pointed star) screwdriver, mostly they are in a set of 5 or something.


----------



## Slater

Drake_Mallard said:


> Though I'm satisfied with how my ZS7 sounds; I'm interested in checking inside it to see if there's anything wrong though I'm afraid of stripping the chinese made screws. Which type of screwdriver did you guys use to open it up and where can I get one?





BoZ29 said:


> You need a very small torx (6 pointed star) screwdriver, mostly they are in a set of 5 or something.



BoZ29 is right. It’s a 6-sided Torx bit. I don’t remember the size of the top of my head - I think it’s either T5 or T6.

You can order cell phone/small electronics repair kits online (Amazon, eBay, Aliexpress, etc) that have a large assortment of bits (including the appropriate Torx bits). They range in price from $3-$30 depending on the features, accessories, materials used, etc.


----------



## BoZ29




----------



## alex5908 (Jan 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> Are you sure you weren’t reading about the ZS3 or ZS4, and not the new ZS3E?


Yes, I am.
I have both of them but am not impressed as far as the bass is concerned. I am a 90% basshead.
That's a VERY  favourable review at . Unfortunately it is not in Englsih. The reviewer is quite popular in Russia.
You can ask questions there in English and he will respond immediately or next day.


----------



## Drake_Mallard

It actually aligns better than the ZS7's plate cover doesn't it.


----------



## alex5908

Sylmar said:


> Could you please write your impressions after getting the ZS3E?


Sure, I will. The thing is that sometimes aliexpress orders come to Canada in 1, 2 or even 3 months.


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> Sure, I will. The thing is that sometimes aliexpress orders come to Canada in 1, 2 or even 3 months.



Or longer! @Otto Motor has waited 6 months before! And that was long before the strike.

Anyways, thanks for the review link above.


----------



## BoZ29

Does anyone know if the cca c10 has the same cable plugs as the zs6/zs7?


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> Yes, I am.
> I have both of them but am not impressed as far as the bass is concerned. I am a 90% basshead.
> That's a VERY  favourable review at . Unfortunately it is not in Englsih. The reviewer is quite popular in Russia.
> You can ask questions there in English and he will respond immediately or next day.




BTW, the liquid crystal polymer (Kevlar) diagram used in the ZS4 and ZS3E is the same type of diaphragm used in the Sony EX1000 and some high end Sony headphones.

Kevlar diaphragms are stiff, light, and capable of an extremely wide dynamic range (with frequencies as low as 4-5Hz and as high as 100kHz for those dolphin and bat audiophiles).

This makes it an excellent choice for a single driver headphone/earphone (without the need to rely on a hybrid BA design).

Obviously there’s more to the end result than just the type of diaphragm used, but it does go a long way.


----------



## DynamicEars

BoZ29 said:


>



Looks yummy.. like a watermelon


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jan 23, 2019)

For whatever reason have been having a hard time with tips for C10. Weird because this is the same shell as ZSN right? So stock tips sounded great, but hurt quite a bit. Switched to softer version of the tip and they felt better, but still hurt after a while. Switched to Spiral Dots (M) and was able to get 3 hours out of them before the pain started to get bad enough I had to rest for a while. SO I ordered some Spiral Dots in MS size. These actually make the C10 fit exactly like the ZSN now. Very comfortable. WOW! Thankfully Spiral Dots come in the in between sizes. 

I'm sure I'm an isolated case, as I haven't heard anyone else complaining of fit issues, but wanted to throw this out there incase someone else had issues.

Anyway, spent the past 2 days with over ear headphones on, and it was good to get the c10s back in my ears. They are Rock&Roll approved!


----------



## sino8r (Jan 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> BTW, the liquid crystal polymer (Kevlar) diagram used in the ZS4 and ZS3E is the same type of diaphragm used in the Sony EX1000 and some high end Sony headphones.
> 
> Kevlar diaphragms are stiff, light, and capable of an extremely wide dynamic range (with frequencies as low as 4-5Hz and as high as 100kHz for those dolphin and bat audiophiles).
> 
> ...



Isn't that the super iem (Sony EX1000) that they rave about in the basshead thread? I've always been tempted to try it although I'm not exactly thrilled over the proprietary cables.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Isn't that the super iem (Sony EX1000) that they rave about in the basshead thread? I've always been tempted to try it although I'm not exactly thrilled over the proprietary cables.



Yes. EX1000 is legendary status IEM.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 23, 2019)

BoZ29 said:


>


Gorgeous!  I suppose it would feel like Christmas morning every time you listen. 

But from where did you order the green? I thought they only have it in blue; i.e., blue faceplate on black shell cavity. Or is it a custom?



BoZ29 said:


> Does anyone know if the cca c10 has the same cable plugs as the zs6/zs7?



Yes, same connectors.



BadReligionPunk said:


> For whatever reason have been having a hard time with tips for C10. Weird because this is the same shell as ZSN right? So stock tips sounded great, but hurt quite a bit. Switched to softer version of the tip and they felt better, but still hurt after a while. Switched to Spiral Dots (M) and was able to get 3 hours out of them before the pain started to get bad enough I had to rest for a while. SO I ordered some Spiral Dots in MS size. These actually make the C10 fit exactly like the ZSN now. Very comfortable. WOW! Thankfully Spiral Dots come in the in between sizes.
> 
> I'm sure I'm an isolated case, as I haven't heard anyone else complaining of fit issues, but wanted to throw this out there incase someone else had issues.



I did write about it in my impressions. C10 has a shorter and thicker nozzle with a different projection angle as compared to the ZSN. Felt awkward at first but I adjusted with medium-size ball foam tips. Have different tips on the way, but I think I'll try the JVC Spiral Dots MS as you did, thanks. Drey mentioned them in another thread but I'd passed on them to order some others. If they improve the C10's sound even more... 

Edit: Combined posts.


----------



## maxxevv

SybilLance said:


> Gorgeous!  I suppose it would feel like Christmas morning every time you listen.
> 
> But from where did you order the green? I thought they only have it in blue; i.e., blue faceplate on black shell cavity. Or is it a custom?



Very sure that's a mesh-up of the Green ZS6 and a ZS7.  I just got my ZS7, and did a visual comparison, they are identical shells, just the slit angles for the top plate being different.


----------



## SybilLance

maxxevv said:


> Very sure that's a mesh-up of the Green ZS6 and a ZS7.  I just got my ZS7, and did a visual comparison, they are identical shells, just the slit angles for the top plate being different.


Oh! Need to have my eyes checked. I thought the black shell cavity is also green. 

Thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## Slater (Jan 23, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> Very sure that's a mesh-up of the Green ZS6 and a ZS7.  I just got my ZS7, and did a visual comparison, they are identical shells, just the slit angles for the top plate being different.



Yeah. If you zoom into the photo, you can see the engraving on the side that says ZS7 1DD+4BA.


----------



## drey101

SybilLance said:


> Gorgeous!  I suppose it would feel like Christmas morning every time you listen.
> I did write about it in my impressions. C10 has a shorter and thicker nozzle with a different projection angle as compared to the ZSN. Felt awkward at first but I adjusted with medium-size ball foam tips. Have different tips on the way, but I think I'll try the JVC Spiral Dots MS as you did, thanks. Drey mentioned them in another thread but I'd passed on them to order some others. If they improve the C10's sound even more...
> 
> Edit: Combined posts.


I still haven't received anything from said shop. Quite difficult to communicate with, ordered three times consecutively because it keeps getting cancelled and I just found out now that they're sold out for the foam/silicon hybrids so my latest order is probably going to get cancelled as well. I think the method you mentioned before might be the only way to get anything approaching decent service with them. I've even tried communicating with them in other platforms, via text and fb and still it's the same bs. It's extremely frustrating that it's easier to communicate with people that have a limited english vocabulary located in another country than it is to communicate with a local shop who speaks the same language as you.


----------



## gbrgbr

alex5908 said:


> It's just 9 bucks at aliexpress.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/af/KZ-ZS3E.html



If the cable is good, one could get this instead of buying a A-Para cable.

Actually I am posting to info that Chinese New Year coming up (Jan 25 to Feb 5 ?). Orders will be delayed at most Chinese stores.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> Yeah. If you zoom into the photo, you can see the engraving on the side that says ZS7 1DD+4BA.


Oh Slater! Our responses missed each other by seconds. Yes, I did zoom in, but I was so seeing green that my brain got bamboozled. 

Anyway I just came from one of those threads I keep straying into trying to canvass whatever to buy for my gift and I came upon Brooko giving his mild reproach on the topic of burn-in. That was the very first thing I encountered when I started lurking here. Very glad it stuck and I've been most impressed with him ever since.



drey101 said:


> I still haven't received anything from said shop. Quite difficult to communicate with, ordered three times consecutively because it keeps getting cancelled and I just found out now that they're sold out for the foam/silicon hybrids so my latest order is probably going to get cancelled as well. I think the method you mentioned before might be the only way to get anything approaching decent service with them. I've even tried communicating with them in other platforms, via text and fb and still it's the same bs. It's extremely frustrating that it's easier to communicate with people that have a limited english vocabulary located in another country than it is to communicate with a local shop who speaks the same language as you.



Lol! I totally get you! Until now there's been no answer to my follow-up query on how to order the Spiral Dots in MS size that I intend for the C10 and the AS06 since they said they have it but it's not posted in their product inventory.  

And I'd call that method The Silent Method. 

Edit: combined posts.


----------



## maxxevv

gbrgbr said:


> Actually I am posting to info that Chinese New Year coming up (Jan 25 to Feb 5 ?). Orders will be delayed at most Chinese stores.



Chinese Lunar New Year falls on the 5th Feb.  

Most of the Chinese businesses in China will cease operations for 1 week before and  till (at least) 1 week after that.  Which means stop work between 25~29th Jan and start again after 11th and as late as the 18th Feb.  Its a similar story with the postal service there. 

Good to note that if people wish to avoid disappointingly long waits. The more savvy shops will stop all orders before their last work day. So best is to check with seller first before committing to a purchase.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 24, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> Chinese Lunar New Year falls on the 5th Feb.
> 
> Most of the Chinese businesses in China will cease operations for 1 week before and  till (at least) 1 week after that.  Which means stop work between 25~29th Jan and start again after 11th and as late as the 18th Feb.  Its a similar story with the postal service there.
> 
> Good to note that if people wish to avoid disappointingly long waits. The more savvy shops will stop all orders before their last work day. So best is to check with seller first before committing to a purchase.



Hmm...yes. That would give me time to, what's the precise word?, ruminate on where I am as regards my strange predilection for more earphones. The last 3 I've gotten: the perky ZSN, the specialist AS06 and the outstanding C10 seem more than sufficient already. That 3-driver piezoelectric that Clear enthusiastically recommends for balanced, neutral sound may be the last I'll let my poor husband get for me for sometime...

Perhaps the next one—and I'll be buying—will be one of those Shure electrostats or some other TOTL IEM...

...and then that's it.

Edit: added final line.


----------



## drey101 (Jan 24, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> And I'd call that method The Silent Method.


If my curiosity is strong enough and overrides my annoyance with the shop, I might go do this Silent Method already.


maxxevv said:


> Chinese Lunar New Year falls on the 5th Feb.
> 
> Most of the Chinese businesses in China will cease operations for 1 week before and  till (at least) 1 week after that.  Which means stop work between 25~29th Jan and start again after 11th and as late as the 18th Feb.  Its a similar story with the postal service there.
> 
> Good to note that if people wish to avoid disappointingly long waits. The more savvy shops will stop all orders before their last work day. So best is to check with seller first before committing to a purchase.


I've always been curious how a business would survive an annual shutdown of operations for an entire two weeks. I'm guessing that it's not really the shops themselves that shutdown, but their postal service?


SybilLance said:


> Hmm...yes. That would give me time to, what's the precise word?, ruminate on where I am as regards my strange predilection for more earphones. The last 3 I've gotten: the perky ZSN, the specialist AS06 and the outstanding C10 seem more than sufficient already. That 3-driver piezoelectric that Clear enthusiastically recommends for balanced, neutral sound may be the last I'll let my poor husband get for me for sometime...
> 
> Perhaps the next one—and I'll be buying—will be one of those Shure electrostats or some other TOTL IEM...


Don't forget the Auglamour F300 which is also under 30 USD  Clear's **** is also quite tempting, and if I see it in Shopee, I'll probably gobble it up as well.


----------



## maxxevv

Other than food and perhaps the entertaintment industries and of course the essential services such as transport and security, the whole country goes into shutdown mode. 

Ever wondered how people from Asia viewed the X'mas / Gregorian New Year shutdown in Europe and the US ? 
Its the same thing...


----------



## SybilLance

drey101 said:


> If my curiosity is strong enough and overrides my annoyance with the shop, I might go do this Silent Method already.
> 
> I've always been curious how a business would survive an annual shutdown of operations for an entire week. I'm guessing that it's not really the shops themselves that shutdown, but their postal service?
> 
> Don't forget the Auglamour F300 which is also under 30 USD  Clear's **** is also quite tempting, and if I see it in Shopee, I'll probably gobble it up as well.


Although I might be swinging by MM sometime next month, I'd dare not attempt The Silent Method lest it may degenerate into The Silent Movie Method. 

Re: Chinese New Year and its effects, I suppose it takes personal experience and a keen insight into the ways and means of Chinese manufacturing to really get a grip on such things. I simply wait. Perhaps Clear or others more familiar with it could profer valuable input on this.

And, Clear's **** would provide that distinctively different sound character I'm looking for, I believe, much more than the other one.

Btw did you download the AliExpress app?


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 24, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> Other than food and perhaps the entertaintment industries and of course the essential services such as transport and security, the whole country goes into shutdown mode.
> 
> Ever wondered how people from Asia viewed the X'mas / Gregorian New Year shutdown in Europe and the US ?
> Its the same thing...


This. Well put.

I'll be watching the other AO women's semifinal. Cheers!


----------



## drey101

maxxevv said:


> Other than food and perhaps the entertainment industries and of course the essential services such as transport and security, the whole country goes into shutdown mode.
> 
> Ever wondered how people from Asia viewed the X'mas / Gregorian New Year shutdown in Europe and the US ?
> Its the same thing...


Point taken, I guess I'm just a bit surprised with the length of time they shutdown. Christmas + Gregorian New Year does amount to past a week of shutdown so it wouldn't be that different. 



SybilLance said:


> Although I might be swinging by MM sometime next month, I'd dare not attempt The Silent Method lest it may degenerate into The Silent Movie Method.
> 
> Re: Chinese New Year and its effects, I suppose it takes personal experience and a keen insight into the ways and means of Chinese manufacturing to really get a grip on such things. I simply wait. Perhaps Clear or others more familiar with it could profer valuable input on this.
> 
> ...


Also true, that there might be nuances in how manufacturing itself is affected.

I've already downloaded the AliExpress app, already have a bunch of items in it (that I'll probably fine tune reduce according to what's available in a single shop) that I can't find from shopee namely, the DMG Vented Filters, the ****, DP100 earbuds, diy SR2 earbuds, and even the KZ ZS7. Only I'm just being stubborn as I know once I've purchased anything from Aliexpress, it'll turn into a flood of 'low cost' good deals that I won't be able to resist purchasing.


----------



## nxnje

ZS7 are a real step up from the ZS6, i have to say.
Still testing then as i have to review them and i'm really loving it.
Gonna share more impressions with some more listening


----------



## Zerohour88

drey101 said:


> I've always been curious how a business would survive an annual shutdown of operations for an entire two weeks. I'm guessing that it's not really the shops themselves that shutdown, but their postal service?
> 
> Don't forget the Auglamour F300 which is also under 30 USD  Clear's **** is also quite tempting, and if I see it in Shopee, I'll probably gobble it up as well.



The shops also goes into holiday at this time, since there's no point operating without postal (also, they don't do much holidays and the CNY is one of the few times they actually have to make an effort to go home and make a family gathering, the chinese are quite big on that part of their culture).

I usually get some form of notice before they go into shutdown, this was what the forwarding guys told me "Notice -- CNY shutdown at China side 29/Jan - 14/Feb". Luckily my F300 is shipped already 



SybilLance said:


> This. Well put.
> 
> I'll be watching the other AO women's semifinal. Cheers!



I'm sad Fed, Halep and Nishikori all got knocked out, but at least it means another Djoko-Nadal final, which is always a thriller


----------



## skajohyros

Wiljen said:


> not very -  the Zs7 has a different treble and upper mids than the Zs5 (either version).


How does the soundstage compare?


----------



## kookaudio

SybilLance said:


> Hmm...yes. That would give me time to, what's the precise word?, ruminate on where I am as regards my strange predilection for more earphones. The last 3 I've gotten: the perky ZSN, the specialist AS06 and the outstanding C10 seem more than sufficient already. That 3-driver piezoelectric that Clear enthusiastically recommends for balanced, neutral sound may be the last I'll let my poor husband get for me for sometime...
> 
> Perhaps the next one—and I'll be buying—will be one of those Shure electrostats or some other TOTL IEM...
> 
> ...


Definitely agree on “perky” for the ZSN
As for AS06 I have been having them for 3 days and to me they sound... bad: bass shy and nothing particularly well done. Disappointing.


----------



## Blinxat

Hi! I mostly do over ears. I got the KZ ES4, I am suprised how good they sound for the price. But what would be a a considerable step up in treble resolution and separation and "air"? I hear ES4 as pretty good in balance, but has some mid shout and lacks some treble sparkle. Say up to 150 EUR/USD. 

Tin T2 maybe?


----------



## BrunoC

Blinxat said:


> Hi! I mostly do over ears. I got the KZ ES4, I am suprised how good they sound for the price. But what would be a a considerable step up in treble resolution and separation and "air"? I hear ES4 as pretty good in balance, but has some mid shout and lacks some treble sparkle. Say up to 150 EUR/USD.
> 
> Tin T2 maybe?




T2 is a good option, but I recommend the ZS7 if you want a more "fuller" and enaging sound. It's top quality.


----------



## BrunoC

Slater said:


> Would you be willing to remove the back cover, and see if yours has the loose wire that’s not connected to anything?
> 
> I’m trying to determine if there is a correlation between glowing sonic performance such as yours, and whether that person’s ZS7 has the detached gold wire (or not).
> 
> You only need to remove 2 of the 3 screws (the long ones, as the short one is fake and for looks only).



Sure, But I need to buy the right screwdriver first.


----------



## kookaudio

Blinxat said:


> Hi! I mostly do over ears. I got the KZ ES4, I am suprised how good they sound for the price. But what would be a a considerable step up in treble resolution and separation and "air"? I hear ES4 as pretty good in balance, but has some mid shout and lacks some treble sparkle. Say up to 150 EUR/USD.
> 
> Tin T2 maybe?


I LOVE the T2! (Not pro) treble resolution is very good, and instrument separation too.


----------



## CoiL (Jan 24, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> No one listens to curves and graphs per se!


Of course no-one listens graphs! Duh... but... it gives a lot of perspective into certain IEM sound signature and *quantitative* information about different frequencies.
But I agree that FR graphs don`t show a lot, like driver technical abilities to deliver complex music without mess between different frequencies.
For example IEM can have good quantity in bass area according to FR measurements but it doesn`t show bass tightness, hit, rumble, details, decay/reverb etc.
For that, waterfall graphs are better and give littlebit more information about driver speed and agility on certain frequencies.
Actually, I wonder if there`s Harman Waterfall graphs target to show "general average" perception of what ppl hear? As much as I know, haven`t heard about it.


PhonoPhi said:


> Harman targets describe some average preferences ("most preferred"), and* not for IEMs originally*.


How come? https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response


> Harman announced a separate target response for in-ear headphones (insert earphones)








They have separate IE 2017 target curve researched specially for IEMs.



PhonoPhi said:


> The frequency response does not include very important characteristics of response time and decay. These curves would favour DD unfairly since responding at single frequency is much simpler than for complex (real) music. It is difficult for me (personally and perhaps subjectively) to grasp how a single membrane can reproduce 10-octave range without interference and distortions.


Do You think that most hybrid or pure BA chi-fi`s that come and go in these forums don`t have distortion or interference? They all do. Difference is in amount and if it is noticeable to human hearing or not. Unfortunately or luckily we don`t have such data here very often.
For my ears and gears, I find properly done single dynamic unit IEMs much more coherent and "even" in whole FR without such dips and peaks caused by poor crossover implementation, which imo is greater issue than distortion/speed/decay with most of cheap hybrids. At least my ears&gear detect dips&peaks in FR much easier than distortions/decay at certain frequencies.
Of course I notice difference between fast and slow driver with bass/percussion but dips and peaks in upper FR are much more noticeable and "irritating" for my ears.

Uh oh, sorry for offtopic.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> BTW, the liquid crystal polymer (Kevlar) diagram used in the ZS4 and ZS3E is the same type of diaphragm used in the Sony EX1000 and some high end Sony headphones.
> Kevlar diaphragms are stiff, light, and capable of an extremely wide dynamic range (with frequencies as low as 4-5Hz and as high as 100kHz for those dolphin and bat audiophiles).
> This makes it an excellent choice for a single driver headphone/earphone (without the need to rely on a hybrid BA design).
> Obviously there’s more to the end result than just the type of diaphragm used, but it does go a long way.


I told ya, it`s good DD for DIY projects! 


Blinxat said:


> Hi! I mostly do over ears. I got the KZ ES4, I am suprised how good they sound for the price. But what would be a a considerable step up in treble resolution and separation and "air"? I hear ES4 as pretty good in balance, but has some mid shout and lacks some treble sparkle. Say up to 150 EUR/USD.
> Tin T2 maybe?


Moondrop Kanas Pro.


----------



## Wiljen

skajohyros said:


> How does the soundstage compare?



Both are good but I would still give a slight edge to the 5v1.  I was using the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions as my test material and it just really shines on the 5 and is a 1/2 step behind on the 7.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 24, 2019)

CoiL said:


> Of course no-one listens graphs! Duh... but... it gives a lot of perspective into certain IEM sound signature and *quantitative* information about different frequencies.
> But I agree that FR graphs don`t show a lot, like driver technical abilities to deliver complex music without mess between different frequencies.
> For example IEM can have good quantity in bass area according to FR measurements but it doesn`t show bass tightness, hit, rumble, details, decay/reverb etc.
> For that, waterfall graphs are better and give littlebit more information about driver speed and agility on certain frequencies.
> ...



Yes, trying to keep non-KZ part short.

With all the data "qualitative" or not - correct interpretation is crucial, which includes understanding the limitations of the data interpreted.

As I stated, Harman were originally measured for non-IEMs; how recent adjustments of original curves to include IEMs are universal, given different ear cavities and crucial importance of the seal, is not clear to me, and I am personally a bit cautious about overinterpretation. That's all.

Surely, a single DD is the most coherent. A crossover for multi-driver IEMs is a quite serious issue. For me, the crossover was noticeable in Fiio FH1 and F9pro.
KZ10 (my first KZ) was a little revelation in that, perhaps at the expense of the range/treble, the coherence was nice. Also it meant to me that with more drivers - it could be better!
So I explored more KZs (and I do not buy to "chi-fi" notion - it either works well or not, unless someone tries to justify higher prices...)
AS10 then really did everything for me. The bass, the less dampened BAs (being rougher/grainier)- they reproduce string instruments amazingly. (That is a good other topic...)
If I were to listen to more percussion-rich music, it could be that a single DD work better to my ears.


----------



## SybilLance

kookaudio said:


> Definitely agree on “perky” for the ZSN
> As for AS06 I have been having them for 3 days and to me they sound... bad: bass shy and nothing particularly well done. Disappointing.


Oh I'm sorry you find the AS06 bass-shy and disappointing. I do believe it's in the bass where it shines: though it lacks weight, there's more resolution of detail, more precision and clarity than the ZSN and even the C10. I'll have more when I post my impressions.


----------



## skajohyros

Wiljen said:


> Both are good but I would still give a slight edge to the 5v1.  I was using the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions as my test material and it just really shines on the 5 and is a 1/2 step behind on the 7.


Thanks for the reply mate. Only half a step behind, so I can assume it has that holographic feel, right?
Which leads to my next question. Which has the better soundstage between the CCA c10 and zs7? For those who have both.


----------



## Wiljen

skajohyros said:


> Thanks for the reply mate. Only half a step behind, so I can assume it has that holographic feel, right?
> Which leads to my next question. Which has the better soundstage between the CCA c10 and zs7? For those who have both.



My C10 is still en-route so cant speak to that one yet.  I'm not a big fan of the term holographic as it means too many different things to different people.  I do think the 7 has a good sized stage with more width than depth and a good sense of height and all of that contributes to a very 3 dimensional image.  The limited depth is where the Zs5v1 beats it out as it can feel really cavernous if fed proper source material.  (Cowboy Junkies - Trinity Session - I'm so lonesome I could cry for example).


----------



## barocka (Jan 24, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> My C10 is still en-route so cant speak to that one yet.  I'm not a big fan of the term holographic as it means too many different things to different people.  I do think the 7 has a good sized stage with more width than depth and a good sense of height and all of that contributes to a very 3 dimensional image.  The limited depth is where the Zs5v1 beats it out as it can feel really cavernous if fed proper source material.  (Cowboy Junkies - Trinity Session - I'm so lonesome I could cry for example).



Another example for the depth of zs5 v1.'s cave; Macy Gray - I Try ( stripped )


----------



## kookaudio

SybilLance said:


> Oh I'm sorry you find the AS06 bass-shy and disappointing. I do believe it's in the bass where it shines: though it lacks weight, there's more resolution of detail, more precision and clarity than the ZSN and even the C10. I'll have more when I post my impressions.


 Could be something related to the fact that I still did not make enough burning in, but at the moment the bass it really far from my taste in my pair.


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 24, 2019)

barocka said:


> Another example for the depth of zs5 v1.'s cave; Macy Gray - I Try ( stripped )



_Stripped_ by Macy Gray (Chesky, 2016) is a binaural recording. It will give the illusion of an expansive sound field with all the spatial and localization cues spot on with any capable enough in-ear; but yes, it does give that sensation of an out-of-the-head virtual center image which is Macy's voice when you're listening to it with the ZS5 v1 inserted just right.


In another vein, all these talks about Harman curves confuse me; it seems the "Harman target curve" is being used to represent what a headphone is supposed to sound like. In short, being used to refer to, and as synonymous with, the _ideal_ sound for a headphone.

Insofar as IEMs are concerned, what I understand (with help from my very patient husband) is that it is simply a target frequency response curve that shows the preference of 71 listeners, both trained and untrained, over a series of controlled listening tests involving 30 different models of in-ear headphones; and from which the researchers (Olive and 2 others) tried to develop a statistical model to predict in-ear headphone preferences based on their acoustic measurements. Hence, Harman Preferred Target Response Curve.

I believe the operative word is preference—indeed the tests done by the researchers at Harman were _preference_ tests; various pieces of music were played for the listeners and through double-blind testing the preferred response by each listener compared to a reference target was determined.

Yes, we could use the resultant published preference target response curve as basis for our _own_ individual preference, a sort of a default starting template since it is an FR curve that’s found to be _preferred_ by many; but these research and tests do not give rise to the conclusion that this should be the ideal FR curve for headphones, that this is what and how the ideal headphone is supposed to sound lik_e. _There is however the recommendation for further research.

To illustrate, although I find I really prefer a warm, balanced sound signature in my in-ears like the one provided by the C10, I may still like, and also prefer, one that has a linear frequency response across the audible frequency range, and which is definitely far removed from the Harman preferred target response curve for in-ears.

Okay. Rant over. Sorry for that. Must be sleepy.

Anyway here’s a link to a pdf that serves as a précis for the collective research done by Dr. Sean Olive and his colleagues with Harman International over the years, basically a series of very informative slides that shed light on the nature, aims and objectives of these research, how they’re done, their various hypotheses, the results, etc., that seems to have been authored by Dr. Olive himself and that’s intended for the public domain:

https://www.listeninc.com/wp/media/Perception_and_-Measurement_of_Headphones_Sean_Olive.pdf


----------



## PhonoPhi

kookaudio said:


> Could be something related to the fact that I still did not make enough burning in, but at the moment the bass it really far from my taste in my pair.


It could be also the tightness of the seal. I found BA bass is much more sensitive to the seal, likely due to smaller air displacements by BAs compared to DDs.
Wider and low-height tips worked the best for me with AS10 and AS06.


----------



## Wiljen

SybilLance said:


> _Stripped_ by Macy Gray (Chesky, 2016) is a binaural recording. It will give the illusion of an expansive sound field with all the spatial and localization cues spot on with any capable enough in-ear; but yes, it does give that sensation of an out-of-the-head virtual center image which is Macy's voice when you're listening to it with the ZS5 v1 inserted just right.



For the record, the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Session is all binaural recording as well.


----------



## Sylmar

alex5908 said:


> Sure, I will. The thing is that sometimes aliexpress orders come to Canada in 1, 2 or even 3 months.



That's a long time indeed.


----------



## alex5908

Sylmar said:


> That's a long time indeed.


Yes, but the record delivery time is 9 days. So one never knows.


----------



## Sylmar

alex5908 said:


> Yes, but the record delivery time is 9 days. So one never knows.



I have the same thing to the Netherlands as well. One time I almost gave up of my stuff arriving but my KZ ZSN cable got here in a little more than a week. As a consumer it feels a bit like a lottery but since I don't have to pay shipping costs I'm kind of alright with it. As long as it shows up and it always does.


----------



## rayliam80 (Jan 24, 2019)

I received my ZS7 a week ago from Amazon. I opened the shells and everything looks normally wired.







The only thing I noticed when I opened it was that the left 2 pin socket was not adhered to the shell like the right side. Other than that, it looks okay to me. And once the shell plate is on, it seems not to make a difference at all. Just be careful when you open them since the wires are very thin. A set of micro screwdrivers tools with a T5 bit/tip will open the ZS7. It's also handy to have if you have lots of electronic stuff. You can usually find these sets for cheap. Mine was from Harbor Freight Tools in the US and I think it was around $5 USD.






IMHO:

The ZS7 is an overall step up from the ZS6. As of now, it's my favorite KZ IEM. Soundstage is nice and wide but lacking depth compared to the ZS6. I wasn't impressed with the ZS7 during the first few hours of listening. They sounded a touch grainy yet were never sibilant but seemed to have smoothed out now. This is with about 8 to 10 hours of estimated use. Maybe it's my ears as well but I've been listening to other IEMs too this past week so I'm not sure if that's the case. The ZSN and the ZS7 feel similarly tuned. The biggest difference to me is better instrument separation and a wider soundstage with the ZS7 and the increase of bass presence on the ZSN. I still like the ZSN. It's a solid beater IEM to use while working out. Sound isolation with the ZS7 is about the same as the ZS6 - average at best but it's at least better than the ZS10 which seems to isolate poorly for me.

In terms of non-KZ IEMs that I own, I feel that the ZS7 is more fun than the Tinaudio T2 with the wider soundstage and more upfront micro details of the ZS7. And since the mids are more forward and the the treble is less energetic than the ZS6, I'll probably be reaching more for the ZS7 than the T2. The fit of the ZS7 is also just better for me too compared to the T2. The IT01 is more bassy but I feel like the instrument timbre and presentation of the mids just makes everything from KZ pale in comparison. I prefer the IT01, Massdrop x Noble and my LZ A5 for critical listening and quiet environments where I can better appreciate the sound quality. But for commuting, less ideal environments and not being too stressed about losing them, KZs and the T2 serve that purpose well.






EDIT: First pic of the wiring might look strange if you look at the right side (left shell) of the pic. It looks like one of the pins is not wired but it's just a case of bad lighting. I just double-checked it and it is indeed wired. The wire off the to side that looks like it's connected to nothing is just folded over wire. Sorry for not posting a better pic. But to my eye, everything looks okay.


----------



## Slater

rayliam80 said:


> I received my ZS7 a week ago from Amazon. I opened the shells and everything looks wired normally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice summary, comparisons, and general info!

Did you happen to lift up the crossover board and examine underneath?

Supposedly, that is where the loose wire is often located (someone described it as “neatly tucked under the board”) on theirs.


----------



## stryed (Jan 24, 2019)

rayliam80 said:


> I received my ZS7 a week ago from Amazon. I opened the shells and everything looks wired normally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





rayliam80 said:


> I received my ZS7 a week ago from Amazon. I opened the shells and everything looks wired normally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Might indeed become my daily as for transport i find that soundstage and no sibilance make an enjoyable ride because treble doesn't become a limiting factor for volume/isolation ( replacing KZ5v2).
IT01 just pulls everything together with that bass texture and clarity+tone for the upper frequencies. It lacks the KZ's soundstage but it gives a cozy feeling like being envelopped in a warm blanket while keeping sharp things sharp. I don't expect anything in the sub50 reaching it. Although sometimes I believe it possible, some tracks quickly prove me wrong.


----------



## rayliam80

Slater said:


> Nice summary, comparisons, and general info!
> 
> Did you happen to lift up the crossover board and examine underneath?
> 
> Supposedly, that is where the loose wire is often located (someone described it as “neatly tucked under the board”) on theirs.



I didn't lift up the crossover board. I can check the right shell when I get home. The left shell 2 pin dangled when I opened it and the wires seem so thin and brittle. I'm literally worried about gravity putting more stress on it.

Phase was tested too and it sounds correct, with both the stock cable and the one I have on it now.


----------



## purplesun

kookaudio said:


> As for AS06 I have been having them for 3 days and to me they sound... bad: bass shy and nothing particularly well done. Disappointing.


I was also disappointed at AS06's bass performance when I tested on the AP80 DAP & LG30. But past few days I have been just plain listening to it playing from a Benjie X3 via a headphone amp. What an improvement! The key ingredient is lots of power from the headphone amp. It "wakes up" the bass ranges with effortless presence. So try getting strong amplification into the AS06; it really shines like that. I simply can't listen to the AS06 without the headphone amp now.


----------



## AncientSw0rd

purplesun said:


> I was also disappointed at AS06's bass performance when I tested on the AP80 DAP & LG30. But past few days I have been just plain listening to it playing from a Benjie X3 via a headphone amp. What an improvement! The key ingredient is lots of power from the headphone amp. It "wakes up" the bass ranges with effortless presence. So try getting strong amplification into the AS06; it really shines like that. I simply can't listen to the AS06 without the headphone amp now.



V30 doesn't power stuff well enough when they are low impedance unless you can trigger a higher gain setting. I wish there was a gain setting on it instead of being auto sensed.


----------



## purplesun

AncientSw0rd said:


> V30 doesn't power stuff well enough when they are low impedance unless you can trigger a higher gain setting. I wish there was a gain setting on it instead of being auto sensed.


Sorry, my bad. Meant to say LGG6. It's the same DAC, and the power step-up happens as well. It's normally driving simple earbuds, so that works fine. But the AS06 feels like a 300ohm headphone; the way it livens up with more power.


----------



## rayliam80 (Jan 24, 2019)

rayliam80 said:


> I didn't lift up the crossover board. I can check the right shell when I get home. The left shell 2 pin dangled when I opened it and the wires seem so thin and brittle. I'm literally worried about gravity putting more stress on it.
> 
> Phase was tested too and it sounds correct, with both the stock cable and the one I have on it now.



I just checked the right shell and it does indeed look like there is one wire under the crossover board that is not connected to anything. But by the way it was tucked in, maybe this was on purpose? The ZS7 doesn't sound particularly odd. And with the left shell 2 pin connector not adhered to its shell, I'm not sure if I want to open it up again. I just don't have any real practice with soldering so I'd hate to have to reconnect it if it broke.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 24, 2019)

Tonight I really enjoyed listening with my KZ ZSN using  the balanced cable that arrived yesterday.  I love how well the connector fits.  It cost $15 while the ZSN itself was only $14, lol.  It is a nice cable though.  I had it plugged into the 2.5mm balanced output on my Opus #1.

Here is a link.   In addition to the 2.5mm balanced plug you can also get it with a regular 3.5mm plug or a 4.4mm balanced plug.  It has the exact same special connector as the stock ZSN cables.  It is the only balanced one that I know of so far.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/1938884_32965501955.html


----------



## SybilLance

Wiljen said:


> For the record, the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Session is all binaural recording as well.


Duly noted, thanks. The tidbit about the session being recorded in a church with the band circled around a lone microphone with no mixing, overdubbing or editing sold me. What is more intriguing is their supposed alternative take on classic folk, rock and country songs. I'll look for this album.


----------



## Wiljen

SybilLance said:


> Duly noted, thanks. The tidbit about the session being recorded in a church with the band circled around a lone microphone with no mixing, overdubbing or editing sold me. What is more intriguing is their supposed alternative take on classic folk, rock and country songs. I'll look for this album.



Great album, I highly recommend it.  if you can find the SACD it is well worth the $30.  I think you'll have to hit the bay or the classifieds though as I havent seen it in quite awhile.


----------



## Slater

rayliam80 said:


> I just checked the right shell and it does indeed look like there is one wire under the crossover board that is not connected to anything. But by the way it was tucked in, maybe this was on purpose? The ZS7 doesn't sound particularly odd. And with the left shell 2 pin connector not adhered to its shell, I'm not sure if I want to open it up again. I just don't have any real practice with soldering so I'd hate to have to reconnect it if it broke.



Cool, thanks for looking.

Don’t risk breaking anything or doing anything you’re not comfortable with. What you did so far was very helpful.

I’ll check my pair when they arrive, and get to the bottom of the mystery


----------



## LUCILLE667 (Jan 24, 2019)

Here's a picture of the wire in question. It doesnt stick too far out, and the end does seem to be tinned. Maybe Slater will be brave enough to lift the board on his unit to check. The wires seem fragile, and my soldering skill is quite shoddy, so for now I'll close it up and enjoy the zs7 for what it is


----------



## Slater

LUCILLE667 said:


> Heres a picture of the wire in question. It doesnt stick too far out, and the end does seem to be tinned.



Hard to tell from your photo. It kinda looks like there’s a extra wire poking out by the screw hole at the 2 o’clock position in your photo. Is that correct?

It’s always been a gold (copper) colored wire in the other photos I’ve seen.


----------



## SybilLance

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm sad Fed, Halep and Nishikori all got knocked out, but at least it means another Djoko-Nadal final, which is always a thriller



Been meaning to reply but was just so sleepy last night. Yes, both men's and women's finals promise to be humdingers and could go all the way. I love Kvitova and her amazing comeback. I also want her to win but now I'm officially a Naomi Osaka fan. Nadal-Djokovich may be another 5-hour plus classic nail-biter in the making. Either way for both, I have the schedules blocked, and I have my C10 with me to listen with.


----------



## LUCILLE667

Slater said:


> Hard to tell from your photo. It kinda looks like there’s a extra wire poking out by the screw hole at the 2 o’clock position in your photo. Is that correct?
> 
> It’s always been a gold (copper) colored wire in the other photos I’ve seen.


Yup, thats correct. It's hard to tell the color, but by the width of it, it definitely looks like 2 wires soldered together.


----------



## Slater

LUCILLE667 said:


> Yup, thats correct. It's hard to tell the color, but by the width of it, it definitely looks like 2 wires soldered together.



If it is indeed 2 wires soldered together, then that _could_ indicate 2 drivers being wired in series. Which in that case, it’s not really an ‘extra/loose wire’, and it would be totally fine and nothing to worry about.

I just checked tracking, and I should have my ZS7 Saturday or maybe Monday. So I’ll be able to check it out for myself, and will share my findings


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Tonight I really enjoyed listening with my KZ ZSN using  the balanced cable that arrived yesterday.  I love how well the connector fits.  It cost $15 while the ZSN itself was only $14, lol.  It is a nice cable though.  I had it plugged into the 2.5mm balanced output on my Opus #1.
> 
> Here is a link.   In addition to the 2.5mm balanced plug you can also get it with a regular 3.5mm plug or a 4.4mm balanced plug.  It has the exact same special connector as the stock ZSN cables.  It is the only balanced one that I know of so far.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/1938884_32965501955.html


Wow!...Thanks for that INFO! Nice PIC's! I'll see if I can get that same exact cable thru taobao here in China. -Cheers!


----------



## drey101 (Jan 24, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> Wow!...Thanks for that INFO! Nice PIC's! I'll see if I can get that same exact cable thru taobao here in China. -Cheers!


I got a cable that looks exactly like it, from connector to y splitter and cable cinch, to the actual cable itself. it's  branded as `JC Ally` in aliexpress sold by Fangcao Garden, around 13 USD a pop. You can request them to make it from any type of connector to the any type of plug, so they might have ZSN specific connectors as well 

It's supposedly a single crystal copper, though I don't know how to verify that kind of stuff.


----------



## Slater

drey101 said:


> I got a cable that looks exactly like it, from connector to y splitter and cable cinch, to the actual cable itself. it's  branded as `JC Ally` in aliexpress sold by Fangcao Garden, around 13 USD a pop. You can request them to make it from any type of connector to the any type of plug, so they might have ZSN specific connectors as well
> 
> It's supposedly a single crystal copper, though I don't know how to verify that kind of stuff.



I've never had any experience with that brand or that seller, but the seller has a 88.2% feedback score (which is abysmal).

They do have a lot of nice looking stuff, such as cables etc.


----------



## drey101

Slater said:


> I've never had any experience with that brand or that seller, but the seller has a 88.2% feedback score (which is abysmal).
> 
> They do have a lot of nice looking stuff, such as cables etc.


I was looking for the supplier of the store that sold it to me in Shopee, and the store I bought my cable off told me that it's from that store, and when I checked independently for anyone else selling the same `JC Ally` cable, only they had it in aliexpress. Hopefully the aliexpress seller is legit :/ No issue with my cable so far, except for it feeling heavier than the default KZ cable.

They also have this really nice JC Bold 4 core cable with thicker cores as well that looks awesome.


----------



## kookaudio

purplesun said:


> I was also disappointed at AS06's bass performance when I tested on the AP80 DAP & LG30. But past few days I have been just plain listening to it playing from a Benjie X3 via a headphone amp. What an improvement! The key ingredient is lots of power from the headphone amp. It "wakes up" the bass ranges with effortless presence. So try getting strong amplification into the AS06; it really shines like that. I simply can't listen to the AS06 without the headphone amp now.


I tried even with a Zishan DSD which is quite powerful, and an Onkyo too...
Let’s see, maybe with some more burning in.


----------



## purplesun

kookaudio said:


> I tried even with a Zishan DSD which is quite powerful, and an Onkyo too...
> Let’s see, maybe with some more burning in.


Yeah, I think that should be enough power to hear a difference in the AS06.
Maybe burning-in? I ran mine for about 100 hours.
I hope yours change your mind about it, like mine did.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> Wow!...Thanks for that INFO! Nice PIC's! I'll see if I can get that same exact cable thru taobao here in China. -Cheers!





drey101 said:


> I got a cable that looks exactly like it, from connector to y splitter and cable cinch, to the actual cable itself. it's  branded as `JC Ally` in aliexpress sold by Fangcao Garden, around 13 USD a pop. You can request them to make it from any type of connector to the any type of plug, so they might have ZSN specific connectors as well
> 
> It's supposedly a single crystal copper, though I don't know how to verify that kind of stuff.





Slater said:


> I've never had any experience with that brand or that seller, but the seller has a 88.2% feedback score (which is abysmal).
> 
> They do have a lot of nice looking stuff, such as cables etc.



The store in my  link is Blue shield electronic technology.  They have good feedback and I think we have used them before. Ordered on January 13th and arrived on the 23rd.  The cable ships in a JC ALLY box.   

I can't take credit for the find.   Another user pm'd me and provided the link on the 13th.  He remembered that I had been wishing earlier for a balanced cable with the proper ZSN connector.  Thanks to @thebigredpolos


----------



## TechnoidFR

C16 arrive next week !

I love the zs7 
Is very one of my best I'm
My review


You can to see a clip to 1min. I'm enjoying to do this


----------



## loomisjohnson

AncientSw0rd said:


> V30 doesn't power stuff well enough when they are low impedance unless you can trigger a higher gain setting. I wish there was a gain setting on it instead of being auto sensed.


if you plug in a 3.5mm m to f adapter into the v30 before plugging in the iem, it will trigger the external audio mode (you can also use a 75ohm adapter, which puts it into high impedance mode). the v30 sounds terrible in its normal mode.


----------



## TechnoidFR

It's strange. Meizu sounds better than g7 thinQ


----------



## nraymond

Had a question for folks with KZ headphones - they usually have 0.75mm diameter 2-pin cables, right? Has anyone tried using 0.78mm cables? I've noticed some companies advertising their 0.78mm cables as being compatible, and I was wondering if that was true and if there were any downsides... I created a thread here to discuss:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2-pin-0-78mm-vs-0-75mm-cables.898504/


----------



## Wiljen

nraymond said:


> Had a question for folks with KZ headphones - they usually have 0.75mm diameter 2-pin cables, right? Has anyone tried using 0.78mm cables? I've noticed some companies advertising their 0.78mm cables as being compatible, and I was wondering if that was true and if there were any downsides... I created a thread here to discuss:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2-pin-0-78mm-vs-0-75mm-cables.898504/



the big downside is once you force a .78 pin connector into a .75 pin socket, you cannot go back to .75 pin models again as they will simply fall off.  Best to stick with the size it is designed for as going the opposite route invites trouble.


----------



## SybilLance

kookaudio said:


> I tried even with a Zishan DSD which is quite powerful, and an Onkyo too...
> Let’s see, maybe with some more burning in.





purplesun said:


> Yeah, I think that should be enough power to hear a difference in the AS06.
> Maybe burning-in? I ran mine for about 100 hours.
> I hope yours change your mind about it, like mine did.


You know, eartips that give that perfect seal might make more of a difference with regard to bringing out that bass fullness. Have you tried wide-bore ball foam tips? Or soft silicone medium-to-wide bore ones? I know it's counter-intuitive because we have this general rule of thumb that small-bore tips enhance bass, but please try. You won't lose anything if you do, and you might be surprised. And discover why I consider the AS06 as a specialist.


----------



## neo_styles

nraymond said:


> Had a question for folks with KZ headphones - they usually have 0.75mm diameter 2-pin cables, right? Has anyone tried using 0.78mm cables? I've noticed some companies advertising their 0.78mm cables as being compatible, and I was wondering if that was true and if there were any downsides... I created a thread here to discuss:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2-pin-0-78mm-vs-0-75mm-cables.898504/


I've done both 0.75 and 0.78. The 0.78 seems to be a looser fit in some pairs, tighter in others. It's really hit-or-miss. I'd suggest just doing 0.75 to be safe.


----------



## purplesun

SybilLance said:


> You know, eartips that give that perfect seal might make more of a difference with regard to bringing out that bass fullness.


That's true. A good/bad pressure seal can make or break the SQ of any IEM.
Tight-fitting T400 Complys on mine; passes the "baby crying on a long-flight" test!


----------



## hakuzen

TechnoidFR said:


> C16 arrive next week !
> 
> I love the zs7
> Is very one of my best I'm
> ...



this is funny.
you didn't like my zs7 measurements post, and commented that zs6 vs zs7 didn't match your sound perception.
and now you use my graph in your youtube video review, without mentioning the source nor adding a grateful note in the description?
that says a lot about your ethic and kindness..


----------



## Zerohour88

nraymond said:


> Had a question for folks with KZ headphones - they usually have 0.75mm diameter 2-pin cables, right? Has anyone tried using 0.78mm cables? I've noticed some companies advertising their 0.78mm cables as being compatible, and I was wondering if that was true and if there were any downsides... I created a thread here to discuss:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/2-pin-0-78mm-vs-0-75mm-cables.898504/



yup, as stated by others, jamming a 0.78 pin into 0.75 holes will loosen it. Same problem a few qdc owners faced (since most CIEMs are 2 pins 0.78 but qdc uses 0.75)

also, don't need to make a separate thread for anything related to KZ, you can ask away here.


----------



## Aparker2005

Really looking forward to any c16 reviews. My zs10 and as 10 are great, but I'm intrigued.


----------



## TechnoidFR (Jan 26, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> this is funny.
> you didn't like my zs7 measurements post, and commented that zs6 vs zs7 didn't match your sound perception.
> and now you use my graph in your youtube video review, without mentioning the source nor adding a grateful note in the description?
> that says a lot about your ethic and kindness..



I didn't say that I don't like. Just say that is totally different in my ears in term of perception. I maintain that and say in the review.

Sorry for not mentioning... It was hard week and not intentional... Just added with your pseudo and link of the post... ( and it would be really stupid to do it intentionally and post it here )
Sorry and corrected...

Another thing, be sure that I like this forum. I décidés tout participate because it's interesting to share ours opinions. I am not very good at English but I try anyway.

when i could buy the material to make the measurements and it will be with pleasure that i will share them. unfortunately I'm not really rich so it's not for now and I am dependent on you. I made the move for Otto Motor but here I was just drowned by my work and YouTube.


----------



## hakuzen

TechnoidFR said:


> I didn't say that I don't like. Just say that is totally different in my ears in term of perception. I maintain that and say in the review.
> 
> Sorry for not mentioning... It was hard week and not intentional... Just added with your pseudo and link of the post... ( and it would be really stupid to do it intentionally and post it here )
> Sorry and corrected...
> ...


no problem.
thanks for adding the nick and link.
not rich here either, invested on measurement gear because was tired of the lack of info of most audio stuff.


----------



## TechnoidFR

hakuzen said:


> no problem.
> thanks for adding the nick and link.
> not rich here either, invested on measurement gear because was tired of the lack of info of most audio stuff.



I will ask / warn next time. And I would do things correctly. Anyway my test often been reviewed and better framed text level. It will go into account too

I understand. But I'm very very very limited . I saw one model for 200$ but it too high for me... I understand, don't have any graph for CCA C10. it could help me to see the differences, to better interpret, to compare, to learn and especially to smooth the results with the same device and even settings.


----------



## hakuzen

TechnoidFR said:


> I will ask / warn next time. And I would do things correctly. Anyway my test often been reviewed and better framed text level. It will go into account too
> 
> I understand. But I'm very very very limited . I saw one model for 200$ but it too high for me... I understand, don't have any graph for CCA C10. it could help me to see the differences, to better interpret, to compare, to learn and especially to smooth the results with the same device and even settings.


i'll measure c10 when they arrive.

i don't mind to share all the info, this is my main purpose. love internet info explosion. but we have to keep minimal ethic rules, specially if we pretend to earn cash via advertisement or whatever, at youtube or at any web.
imagine i need to earn money urgently, because i've been unemployed for 10 years. i'd feel ripped off when others get benefits using my work and i get nothing.


----------



## TechnoidFR

hakuzen said:


> i'll measure c10 when they arrive.
> 
> i don't mind to share all the info, this is my main purpose. love internet info explosion. but we have to keep minimal ethic rules, specially if we pretend to earn cash via advertisement or whatever, at youtube or at any web.
> imagine i need to earn money urgently, because i've been unemployed for 10 years. i'd feel ripped off when others get benefits using my work and i get nothing.



I agree, just I had to manage the launch of the Honor V20 + editing (much longer than I did before) + training at my job. It's really a fault of inattention. It's really not my style.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Back on the zs7

I share one of the reason why I love them more than other in this moment ( Google translate, but normally it must be correct )

Hold for example for the ZS7 a music that I particularly like with them

Koan Atahensic: I use a player that allows a repeat ab so runs loop from 3:32 to 5:27
It's very chill and airy (a big part of the album is cool by the way)

The difference with M6 or C10 is its side a little more felted but more percussive, it ended me in love with them

Already the main instrument is very alive, each note, each support is quite alive, percussive while having an air side present. Already it gives him a lot of life, you do not have this impact with others
The second instrument more discreet and acute means perfectly and lighter
The pad arrives and puts an aerial key to support the main instrument

Then the sub bass arrives. With the ZS7 they have a presence while being very controlled, soft. It is "down" and supports the air side of the instrument, each little boom comes to give a little dynamism but remains down, does not disturb the rest.

The little voice is a little behind up is behind a little lower than the voice

It gives you both a very airy, soft, relaxing but on the other side it's very lively, it's generous, the sub bass adds a good touch of velvet. She gets along without disturbing, she accompanies the instrument that goes into a more airy broom at this time.

And that, KC2 does not give this fun, this striking sweetness, this vivacity of the instrument.

Even the least impactful C10 breaks the whole life of this instrument, that each note plays is more obedient but less alive, you do not have the contrast of the moment of the note play percussive with air broadcast with a reverb more and more great.

It's sweet, it's dynamic, it's alive, it's full, it's fun, it's relaxing, it takes you generously in this desire to follow you this music. All while staying with a very natural, warm tone just right. The softness and amplitude of the DD for the sub bass linked to the very good presence of the main instrument both lively and playful while being air ... currently no other intr has made me so much appreciated this music. And yet I have a beautiful collection

I fell asleep one night while listening to it, it had not happened to me for years to fall asleep headphones in the ears

The ZS7 is that.


----------



## BoZ29

TechnoidFR said:


> Back on the zs7
> 
> I share one of the reason why I love them more than other in this moment ( Google translate, but normally it must be correct )
> 
> ...


Totally agree. This zs7 is my favorite inear at this moment!


----------



## CoiL

Wiljen said:


> the big downside is once you force a .78 pin connector into a .75 pin socket, *you cannot go back to .75 pin models again as they will simply fall off.*  Best to stick with the size it is designed for as going the opposite route invites trouble.


That`s not always the problem and when it becomes loose, then You can  just slightly bend 0.75 pins to create "holding pressure" and it`s totally ok again.


----------



## Wiljen

CoiL said:


> That`s not always the problem and when it becomes loose, then You can  just slightly bend 0.75 pins to create "holding pressure" and it`s totally ok again.



I've found this trick to work sometimes but not 100% so I am a bit hesitant to say it always works.  On some it seems the distance between "falling off loose" and "too bent to fit" is a so small you have almost no chance to hit the window.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> That`s not always the problem and when it becomes loose, then You can  just slightly bend 0.75 pins to create "holding pressure" and it`s totally ok again.



You can also tin the cable pins with a small amount of solder. It adds just enough thickness that it fits tightly without the need to bend the pins.


----------



## Mybutthurts

SybilLance said:


> Duly noted, thanks. The tidbit about the session being recorded in a church with the band circled around a lone microphone with no mixing, overdubbing or editing sold me. What is more intriguing is their supposed alternative take on classic folk, rock and country songs. I'll look for this album.



Great album. Got it back on its release in the 80s, on vinyl. Unfortunately, currently don't have access to my records...

Shall have to add it to Spotify lists.


----------



## 424358

If I love the ZS6, sold mine, should I get the ZS7? Worthy of the upgrade? And anyone have some good cables for 2 pin iem?


----------



## HungryPanda

I got this and it is a really nice cable

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FDB...-Headphone-MMCX-Cable-SE425/32946956117.html?


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> You can also tin the cable pins with a small amount of solder. It adds just enough thickness that it fits tightly without the need to bend the pins.



That's a great thought, I'd never considered that, but it is also entirely reversible with a little heat should you need to.


----------



## gazzington

Is there a kz that's awesome for black/death/doom metal?


----------



## BoZ29

misterchao said:


> If I love the ZS6, sold mine, should I get the ZS7? Worthy of the upgrade? And anyone have some good cables for 2 pin iem?


I prefer the zs7 as the bass is better than zs6 and the highs are smooth and not piercing like zs6. The zs6 sounds great with some equalizing, no needsfor this with zs7


----------



## BadReligionPunk

gazzington said:


> Is there a kz that's awesome for black/death/doom metal?


I liked the ZSN, but then CCA C10(KZ sister company) came out and while the bass isn't as fast and is slightly more elevated then ZSN, the mids and the treble are a bit more smoother and refined while keeping most of the energy of the ZSN. Also Stage, separation and details are markedly improved over ZSN. I personally enjoy metal just fine with both.


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Drake_Mallard said:


> That's the main problem I have with painted metal earphones. My Nuforce HEM1 and EDC since they are (durable) plastic I handle them them without any care having them dangle, bang into each other or tables. Meanwhile I handle my ZS6 and ZS7 like I'm carrying quail eggs.



Yeah.. I've been trying to handle them a lot more carefully but I accidentally dropped them again. This time it was both pieces. A day later and I think something's off. I'm not sure if it's the ZS6's themselves, they sound more sibilant now and some parts of the spectrum sound distorted. Plus separation and imaging, I'm trying not to imagine it's any different but it is at least slightly.... I only really noticed the difference in sound after I dropped my phone with the ZS6 cable still attached. Are my ZS6's damaged or is the sibilance something I should expect during burn-in..?

TL;DR: I dropped the ZS6's. They sound a bit distorted and a little sibilant with the separation taking a bit of a hit. Did I screw them up?


----------



## vladstef

ronaldocapitoii said:


> Yeah.. I've been trying to handle them a lot more carefully but I accidentally dropped them again. This time it was both pieces. A day later and I think something's off. I'm not sure if it's the ZS6's themselves, they sound more sibilant now and some parts of the spectrum sound distorted. Plus separation and imaging, I'm trying not to imagine it's any different but it is at least slightly.... I only really noticed the difference in sound after I dropped my phone with the ZS6 cable still attached. Are my ZS6's damaged or is the sibilance something I should expect during burn-in..?
> 
> TL;DR: I dropped the ZS6's. They sound a bit distorted and a little sibilant with the separation taking a bit of a hit. Did I screw them up?



Yup, you've damaged balanced armature(s). Sometimes, this can get fixed on its own after a couple of hours but most of the time it's damaged for good. Given that it's very noticeable in your case, I wouldn't hold my hopes up..


----------



## EDG67 (Jan 26, 2019)

Absolutely love my KZ ZSN, very balanced and the fit is perfect.Got the all black version.Compared to the ED16 I like the ZSN a lot better.Haven't had a lot of time with them (just got Koss ksc 75's which have gotten the most use, can't take them off ), but what I have heard has been great.


----------



## mbwilson111

EDG67 said:


> just got Koss ksc 75's which have gotten the most use, can't take them off



I am not surprised.  Very addictive those 75's.


----------



## ronaldocapitoii (Jan 27, 2019)

vladstef said:


> Yup, you've damaged balanced armature(s). Sometimes, this can get fixed on its own after a couple of hours but most of the time it's damaged for good. Given that it's very noticeable in your case, I wouldn't hold my hopes up..



Damn it, I was really liking this pair. I have been playing pink noise on low volumes and that seemed to open up the sound and soften the sibilance. Closer to how it was but still sibilant in comparison. If there's even a chance of the balanced armatures repairing themselves through pink noise.. Should I lower the volume even more or raise it?

On another note, I really noticed the sibilance after I dropped the phone with the ZS6's cable attached. I only dropped the phone, I had the ZS6's in my hand. How easy would it be to damage a phone's amp or dac? I mean, the sound when I plug them into my computer isn't as sibilant as on the phone. Unfortunately, I can't 100% verify that my phone's at fault since I don't have a reference point since I didn't listen to these connected to the computer as much.


----------



## Slater

ronaldocapitoii said:


> Damn it, I was really liking this pair. I have been playing pink noise on low volumes and that seemed to open up the sound and soften the sibilance. Closer to how it was but still sibilant in comparison. If there's even a chance of the balanced armatures repairing themselves through pink noise.. Should I lower the volume even more or raise it?
> 
> On another note, I really noticed the sibilance after I dropped the phone with the ZS6's cable attached. I only dropped the phone, I had the ZS6's in my hand. How easy would it be to damage a phone's amp or dac? I mean, the sound when I plug them into my computer isn't as sibilant as on the phone. Unfortunately, I can't 100% verify that my phone's at fault since I don't have a reference point since I didn't listen to these connected to the computer as much.



That really sucks friend.

Yeah, IEMs with BA drivers really don’t like to be dropped. The BAs are fragile.


----------



## finallysignedup

Hey guys, say hello to your newest brazillian friend that finally created a account!



EDG67 said:


> Absolutely love my KZ ZSN, very balanced and the fit is perfect.Got the all black version.Compared to the ED16 I like the ZSN a lot better.Haven't had a lot of time with them (just got Koss ksc 75's which have gotten the most use, can't take them off ), but what I have heard has been great.


Interesting, can you compare their signature?

I'm a bit late to the party still having the old but gold ED16 as my daily driver thanks to the guy who shared that incredible deal on penonaudio (Thanks!) and wow, they have some really big soundstage and great instrument separation, night and day difference coming from the ES4 that was very intimate and congested (stock tips on both). Signature wise its slighty v-shaped to my ears so its actually good, deep bass and delicate & extended treble, I'm very happy with it but you guys know, still very excited to test new ones (Purple ZSN & IM1 comming)


----------



## 424358

Is there a list of upgrade cables for zs6/zs7?


----------



## Slater

misterchao said:


> Is there a list of upgrade cables for zs6/zs7?



@hakuzen maintains a fairly comprehensive list, including impedance values.

Keep in mind there’s dozens of 3rd party cables (with new ones being added every day), including ones that cable makers will custom make with 0.75mm 2-pin connectors. So it’s hard if not impossible to have a list of EVERY KZ-compatible cable.

But I’m sure you can find something worthwhile from hakuzen’s list


----------



## Slater (Jan 27, 2019)

So I received the ZS7, and had a chance to examine the 'loose wire not connected to anything'.

The 'loose' wires are simply part of 2 BA drivers wired together in series. The way KZ soldered the 2 wires together was not the way I would do it per se, as the drivers are literally right next to one another. All they needed to do was use 1 wire not 2, but from a strictly electrical standpoint the way they wired it up is perfectly acceptable.

Therefore, bottom line is there's nothing wrong with the ZS7, the wires are connected properly, and it’s by design. This is not an issue that should discourage anyone from the ZS7.

Now, I am a perfectionist. And since I had everything open anyways, I decided to make a few improvements and clean things up. This is certainly not required to own and enjoy the ZS7, but I thought I'd share in case anyone else wanted to do it.

1. I wrapped the crossover board in Kapton tape, to protect the bare connections.
2. I put heat shrink tubing on the 'loose wire', to protect the bare (soldered) ends from contacting the crossover board or one of the other many solder connections inside the ZS7. You never know.




Next, there is a huge space next to the DD driver. You can see it in the top of this photo:



3. Well, the crossover board fits PERFECTLY in this space (oriented vertically). You can see it under the 2-pin socket in the below photo:



4. Finally, just some tidying up of the wire routing. The final result looks much better and more organized than the rats nest it came looking like stock.

*Before (note this ‘before’ photo was borrowed from bisonicr):*
​
*After:*
​
I need to finish burn in and dedicate much more listening before I feel comfortable giving sonic impressions. But from what I heard OOTB yesterday (and assuming nothing changes with burn in), the ZS7 is likely the last <$100 I ever buy and I can finally change my profile pic lol.


----------



## 424358

It only accepts  .75mm not. 78mm?


----------



## sino8r (Jan 27, 2019)

Slater said:


> So I received the ZS7, and had a chance to examine the 'loose wire not connected to anything'.
> 
> The 'loose' wires are simply part of 2 BA drivers wired together in series. The way KZ soldered the 2 wires together was not the way I would do it per se, as the drivers are literally right next to one another. All they needed to do was use 1 wire not 2, but from a strictly electrical standpoint the way they wired it up is perfectly acceptable.
> 
> ...



I thought they were wired in a series but I wasn't positive. I had the flu when I opened mine and things just looked too crazy for me to comprehend lol! But that's good to know! Do you have driver flex on yours and did moving the board change or help in your experience?


----------



## BoZ29

Slater said:


> So I received the ZS7, and had a chance to examine the 'loose wire not connected to anything'.
> 
> The 'loose' wires are simply part of 2 BA drivers wired together in series. The way KZ soldered the 2 wires together was not the way I would do it per se, as the drivers are literally right next to one another. All they needed to do was use 1 wire not 2, but from a strictly electrical standpoint the way they wired it up is perfectly acceptable.
> 
> ...


Amazing job Slater, Maybe I’ll do the same, although the units are sounding great. For me the zs7 has anything I wish for. I use the stock cable, I am not convinced a more expensive cable sounds better. This zs7 is a little wonder for the money. 
For me an iem has to stand the test of the song A New Day from Lee Ritenour album Wes Bound. This is a very complex song with lots of instruments that has to sound correct and the dynamics of this song are a challenge for the monitors.


----------



## Slater (Jan 27, 2019)

sino8r said:


> I thought they were wired in a series but I wasn't positive. I had the flu when I opened mine and things just looked too crazy for me to comprehend lol! But that's good to know! Do you have driver flex on yours and did moving the board change or help in your experience?



I have a very minor amount of flex in my left side, but only when I insert the IEM extremely deep. If I do a normal insertion, or hold my mouth open while doing deep insertion it’s no problem.

Physically moving the board doesn’t affect the sound. It was just an OCD organizational thing.


----------



## gazzington

So how does the zs7 compare to things like moondrop Kanas pro or ibasso it01s or even fiio fh5. I appreciate that these are lot cheaper than those.


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> So I received the ZS7, and had a chance to examine the 'loose wire not connected to anything'.
> 
> The 'loose' wires are simply part of 2 BA drivers wired together in series. The way KZ soldered the 2 wires together was not the way I would do it per se, as the drivers are literally right next to one another. All they needed to do was use 1 wire not 2, but from a strictly electrical standpoint the way they wired it up is perfectly acceptable.
> 
> ...


fantastic work!
i saw that the "loose" wire was a soldering of two cables, it was intended. the drivers probably arrive with soldered wires at the operator, who solder them together (faster), instead of cutting one and trimming the other to be soldered to the near driver.
your shrink tubing of that solder avoids the risk of it touching any sensitive point.
the new location of the crossover is genial. now everything look cleaner and tidy. love your perfectionism!
glad you are enjoying them so much.


----------



## eclein

Slater said:


> It was just an OCD organizational thing


I’d do the same ..lol....looks much better now!

I’m really enjoying, C10! My favorite iem right now, I wanna listen to it constantly.

The .75 vs.78 thing was nice to read as I always wondered if they were interchangeable.

Has anybody tried the adapters....mmxc female to 2 pin male....small little things I refuse to buy the stumpy thing (mmx?) over a 2 pin as they just look like inviting a problem but the little adapters might be the way to go.???


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> So I received the ZS7, and had a chance to examine the 'loose wire not connected to anything'.
> 
> The 'loose' wires are simply part of 2 BA drivers wired together in series. The way KZ soldered the 2 wires together was not the way I would do it per se, as the drivers are literally right next to one another. All they needed to do was use 1 wire not 2, but from a strictly electrical standpoint the way they wired it up is perfectly acceptable.
> 
> ...



Wow, great post. I wonder if having the board to the side gives the DD a better chance to breathe, improving the sound. I'm currently awaiting the ZS7, AS10, C10, PT6 and balanced cables, to try with my FiiO X7II, really looking forward to it. Head-fi is such a dangerous place :^D


----------



## HerrXRDS

Slater said:


>




I see that your capacitor is also not soldered properly. I have yet to see an opened ZS7 with that cap soldered straight. At least yours seem to complete the circuit properly. Mine has the cap soldered wrong too and doesn't complete the circuit, wiring for BAs is also different from left to right  . These guys from KZ should focus more on soldering the parts right before adding more BAs and wires. Or maybe they are adding as many BAs as possible in hopes one will be soldered right to produce sound.


----------



## EDG67

finallysignedup said:


> Hey guys, say hello to your newest brazillian friend that finally created a account!
> 
> 
> Interesting, can you compare their signature?
> ...


I'll do my best to compare them,the ZSN to my ears has a more balanced sound, with good separation and a more forward presentation, more treble but no sibilance. Soundstage is nice and wide and has that big sound like the ED16. Using stock tips and stock cables on both, the ZSN cable is so much nicer.Hope that helps


----------



## Slater

HerrXRDS said:


> I see that your capacitor is also not soldered properly. I have yet to see an opened ZS7 with that cap soldered straight. At least yours seem to complete the circuit properly. Mine has the cap soldered wrong too and doesn't complete the circuit, wiring for BAs is also different from left to right  . These guys from KZ should focus more on soldering the parts right before adding more BAs and wires. Or maybe they are adding as many BAs as possible in hopes one will be soldered right to produce sound.



That stock photo was borrowed from bisonicr. And I agree, his capacitor isn’t soldered properly.

Someone was going to try and get a hold of him so he can resolder that capacitor. I hope they were able to!

Anyways, I was relieved to see that both of mine were soldered OK (bottom right):

 

Luckily, my left and right sides were also wired the same as well! I think that’s why my ZS7 sounds so good (on initial listening).

I think the less than stellar impressions are due to wiring and/or capacitor problems.

I definitely agree; KZ (and other ChiFi companies) can definitely work harder on QC.

I don’t envy the companies though. Wiring this many drivers in a tiny IEM is a big challenge. And adding more and more drivers continuously  increases the risk that something will be miswired or screwed up in some way.

That’s why I am cautious of these budget 12 and 16 driver IEMs coming out. Especially ones that don’t have removable backs. At least with removable backs, it’s easy to open and double check the work (or easily repair a defect as in the case of bisonicr’s capacitor).


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Slater said:


> That really sucks friend.
> 
> Yeah, IEMs with BA drivers really don’t like to be dropped. The BAs are fragile.



That's a bummer, 30 dollars out of my student pocket. Damn. Well, I'll just have to live with it. I suppose we really do spend our whole lives earning.


----------



## Slater

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Wow, great post. I wonder if having the board to the side gives the DD a better chance to breathe, improving the sound. I'm currently awaiting the ZS7, AS10, C10, PT6 and balanced cables, to try with my FiiO X7II, really looking forward to it. Head-fi is such a dangerous place :^D



Thanks 

So, as far as improving the DD, it’s theoretically possible. In _theory, _since the board was centered directly behind the DD there _could_ have been some unwanted reflections off the crossover board. And removing that board would remove the reflections.

But that’s just abstract theory and conjecture. The reality was that I was unable to hear any difference with the board in the stock location vs vertically off to the side. If there was a difference, I imagine it would be very small and difficult to measure without sensitive and expensive lab-grade equipment.

I think it’s much more important to make sure the capacitor is soldered properly, and that the wires are wired consistently on both sides. Because if either of those things aren’t right, there _will_ be a difference.


----------



## Slater

ronaldocapitoii said:


> That's a bummer, 30 dollars out of my student pocket. Damn. Well, I'll just have to live with it. I suppose we really do spend our whole lives earning.



You said the main issue (since you dropped it is sibilance), right?

Since you have nothing to lose, you can try taming the sibilance. It’s not going to make it sound like before it was dropped, but maybe you’ll get lucky and can still get some more use out of it.

There’s different ways to go about this.

1. Try different ear tips, including foam tips.
2. Place a very small piece of foam inside of the end of the silicone tips.
3. Place a narrow strip of micro pore tape across the nozzle, directly over the outlet of the BA drivers.
4. Perform the “ZST foam mod” to 1 or both of the BA drivers.
5. Using EQ to find the exact frequency where the sibilance is occurring, and tune it out by EQ cutting that area.

If you don’t know what some of those things are, I should have the links or photos saved somewhere and can dig them up for you.


----------



## SybilLance

finallysignedup said:


> Hey guys, say hello to your newest brazillian friend that finally created a account!
> 
> 
> Interesting, can you compare their signature?
> ...



Hello and Welcome!

Posted comparative impressions about the ED16 vs. ZSN several pages back:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2676#post-14687476

Hope you'll like the ZSN. 



misterchao said:


> It only accepts  .75mm not. 78mm?



0.75 mm. Discussed a couple of pages back. 



eclein said:


> I’d do the same ..lol....looks much better now!
> 
> I’m really enjoying, C10! My favorite iem right now, I wanna listen to it constantly.
> 
> ...



I didn't know there's such an adapter, thanks for this bit of info. Seems I have less time for browsing for through AliExpress, Lazada & Shopee now. On the other hand, it's to be expected that there'll be one. Nice to know, because I happen to have an mmcx cable that was mistakenly sent and that would be more of a hassle for me to return. I'll wait for more input on which ones are preferable (won't skew impedance values, offer more secure connections...).

Also glad you're enjoying the C10.


----------



## moisespr123

Hi everyone,

First post here. I'm also an owner of the KZ ZS7 and my first KZ IEM's. I've been reading this forum since the ZS6 but didn't got one until now. I'm in love with the sound, coming from the Samsung AKG-tuned earbuds. Currently driving them from my Hidizs DH1000 and Hiby R3 with a 2.5mm balanced cable and My AP80 with the 3.5mm 3-button with mic cable I got.

I look forward on seeing more IEM's from KZ in the future, as these definitely didn't dissapointed me.

The only problem I've seen is that it is sensitive to noise, especially on regular Bluetooth devices with CSR chipsets and no dedicated DAC... But other than that, these are awesome!!!


----------



## Slater

moisespr123 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> First post here. I'm also an owner of the KZ ZS7 and my first KZ IEM's. I've been reading this forum since the ZS6 but didn't got one until now. I'm in love with the sound, coming from the Samsung AKG-tuned earbuds. Currently driving them from my Hidizs DH1000 and Hiby R3 with a 2.5mm balanced cable and My AP80 with the 3.5mm 3-button with mic cable I got.
> 
> ...



I noticed that as well. Thanks for pointing this out.

The ZS7 seems to be one of the most sensitive KZs I’ve heard to date. Like the ZS5 v1, it sounds very different on different sources, and on Bluetooth devices can be noisy/hissy.

On source gear that provides a good match, it sounds stellar. On other sources it doesn’t sound all that great. I’ve also noticed that the treble is affected the most.

So far, I have mainly been concentrating on tip rolling. Tips are turning out to make a fairly big difference on the ZS7.

The wrong tips makes it sound really bad. Sure, it’s like that on most IEMs. But some are much more forgiving of tips than others.

With many IEMs, tip rolling affects fit and comfort much more than sound. On others, it’s the opposite, with sound being noticeably affected by tip changes. The ZS7 is definitely in the latter category.


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Slater said:


> You said the main issue (since you dropped it is sibilance), right?
> 
> Since you have nothing to lose, you can try taming the sibilance. It’s not going to make it sound like before it was dropped, but maybe you’ll get lucky and can still get some more use out of it.
> 
> ...



Option 1 and 3 sounds promising. Thanks slater, I really appreciate the help. ☺️


----------



## moisespr123

I'm basically using the same tips from the Samsung AKG earbuds. For me, those are more comfortable and soft, and I can have the ZS7 on at all times without it hurting my ears. I find the stock ones to be a bit hard.

As for treble, yeah, it depends on the source. Generally, the entire sound depends on the source as you say. My personal preference is the DH1000, followed by the AP80 DAP. Also, my Tunai Square Bluetooth adapter can improve the bass response, since it uses a Cirrus Logic DAC (I'm not sure which model), and I've noticed those DACs provide a warmer sound. It's also the only BT adapter where I don't hear any noise because of its dedicated DAC.


----------



## Slater

ronaldocapitoii said:


> Option 1 and 3 sounds promising. Thanks slater, I really appreciate the help. ☺️



Heres some more information on #3 that should help:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2333#post-14382939

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1849#post-14013952

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1847#post-14013168

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1848#post-14013185

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> I have a very minor amount of flex in my left side, but only when I insert the IEM extremely deep. If I do a normal insertion, or hold my mouth open while doing deep insertion it’s no problem.
> 
> Physically moving the board doesn’t affect the sound. It was just an OCD organizational thing.



Well, I use triple flanges. They seem to encourage flex on some iems. Seal a bit too much at times. Really brings out the bass though. 

You don't think that the board was blocking the vents somewhat? I'm kinda surprised by that...


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Well, I use triple flanges. They seem to encourage flex on some iems. Seal a bit too much at times. Really brings out the bass though.
> 
> You don't think that the board was blocking the vents somewhat? I'm kinda surprised by that...



I strongly doubt it. The board wasn’t making any sort of air seal, it just sits loose over top of the driver. Plus they fold the bundle of wires between the driver and the board. The bundle of wires is twisted and folded up fairly fairly loosely.

Bottom line is there seems to be adequate room to allow airflow.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jan 27, 2019)

Slater said:


> I strongly doubt it. The board wasn’t making any sort of air seal, it just sits loose over top of the driver. Plus they fold the bundle of wires between the driver and the board. The bundle of wires is twisted and folded up fairly fairly loosely.
> 
> Bottom line is there seems to be adequate room to allow airflow.



people tend to overestimate how much space a DD's vent needs to breathe, so wasn't really surprised. From the pics it seems like the PCB wasn't creating any kind of seal with any drivers, but it helps to be certain.

Plus the gobs of glue (I assume for tuning) makes the PCB "blocking" redundant


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> people tend to overestimate how much space a DD's vent needs to breathe, so wasn't really surprised. From the pics it was clear the PCB wasn't creating any kind of seal with any drivers, but it helps to be certain.



Well, I’m not saying I heard any difference one way or another, but my ears are not a true scientific test. 

My gut was telling me to clear everything out of the way of the driver, not only for looks and to prevent any electrical shorts, but also just in case there was/is a difference with the board being right on top of the driver vent.

It certainly didn’t _hurt_ anything moving it all out of the way. And it’s likely it would help from the standpoint of reducing unwanted reflections (discussed more here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2752#post-14743869).

It is interesting to me why KZ didn’t just do what I did and put the board in the giant empty cavity on the side of the IEM. It fits perfectly in that location; almost like it was made to. Even the wires are all the proper length for the board to reach.

In fact, that empty cavity is large enough to fit 5-6 more BA drivers! It took additional machine time and cost to CNC machine out that cavity. KZ didn’t just add it for the fun of it. It was done for some purposeful reason - possibility weight savings, possibly a location for additional drivers in a future revision, or maybe it was always intended to have the circuit board located there. Only KZ knows!


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Slater said:


> Heres some more information on #3 that should help:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2333#post-14382939
> 
> ...


 Wow, that's a lot of info. I'll try it out when I get home!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> Thanks
> 
> So, as far as improving the DD, it’s theoretically possible. In _theory, _since the board was centered directly behind the DD there _could_ have been some unwanted reflections off the crossover board. And removing that board would remove the reflections.
> 
> ...



I think I'll do these modifications anyway when I receive mine, it seems much better this way. And then I'll check the soldering of the cross-over boards as well.


----------



## TechnoidFR

I just received CCA C16 !

I burn then the time that I wait an other package ( vivo next dual display ) and after I say all to you

But 
Exactly same package than C10
Same cable too
Starline tips
As10 house


----------



## PhonoPhi

TechnoidFR said:


> I just received CCA C16 !
> 
> I burn then the time that I wait an other package ( vivo next dual display ) and after I say all to you
> 
> ...


AS10 is plastic.
Even "very similar" to ZSN in housing CCA10 fits noticeably different due to a slightly different nozzle design (for me ZSN fits amazingly, and CCA C10 - just OK).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 is plastic.
> Even "very similar" to ZSN in housing CCA10 fits noticeably different due to a slightly different nozzle design (for me ZSN fits amazingly, and CCA C10 - just OK).


I had to mess around quite a bit before I could get C10 to fit right. Took going down a halfsize in tip. Thankfully  JVC spiral dots come in halfsizes. I would not have been able to make c10 my number one IEM without them.


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Slater said:


> Heres some more information on #3 that should help:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2333#post-14382939
> 
> ...



I put on foam tips, still using the crappy stock cable... A lot closer to original now, but unlike original (I tried foam tips the other week, kinda liked the sparkle a lot more with the starline tips) the sound's really opened up and a lot softer. Overall bigger soundstage I think, and it helped bring back some of that sweet, sweet separation. I like the sound of these again. I'll continue to burn these in and hope for the best. I'll come back when I get some micropore on the filter, hope that works well.


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 is plastic.
> Even "very similar" to ZSN in housing CCA10 fits noticeably different due to a slightly different nozzle design (for me ZSN fits amazingly, and CCA C10 - just OK).



Here the backplate is in metal. The house exactly the same thing !


----------



## Nimweth

BadReligionPunk said:


> I had to mess around quite a bit before I could get C10 to fit right. Took going down a halfsize in tip. Thankfully  JVC spiral dots come in halfsizes. I would not have been able to make c10 my number one IEM without them.


Yes, I found Spiral Dots to fit the best. They are my default tips, especially if the IEM has short nozzles.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Feb 8, 2019)

Edited


----------



## robbomanx2

Hey everyone,

A few months ago I got my first KZ IEM's the ED16 and I've been very happy with it. The only critique I have is that the cable is not best. 
I'd like to buy a new cable that would be a upgrade in durability, looks, and possible sound quality. The stock cable I can then keep in case the upgraded cable ever stops working properly.

I've been looking on Ali and have seen 3 KZ cables.

1. Silver one. This one is very thin, I've heard people talking about the color oxidizes. Around 5,- eur and does not look like a big upgrade.
2. 8 Core silver cable. It's thick and looks durable, people give it good reviews. Downside for me personally is that is does not have a L type plug on the end, it's a straight plug which I don't like.
3. 8 Core silver/coper cable. A bit thinner, I like this one the best. Still no L-plug. 

Can anyone recommend me a nice durable cable that is compatible with the ED16, with a L type plug? I've seen some nice cables from TRN too, but those don't have a L-plug either.


----------



## TechnoidFR

After few hours for burn, my first impression on the C16. 

They are heavy, when I take them in my hands they are very heavy comparing to other

The sound seems balanced, and tend to neutral. The treble seems slightly too elevated and, I think, there there will be the most default of this iem for few. They think to me to the KC2 signature with a bit more treble. 
I ear that with battery which is, for some track, too agressive

The bass is very controlled and balanced, clearly at same line than medium. Separation of instruments are excellent too

The clarity is very excellent, voice are super clear and intelligible. 

The C16 are not very airy. Less than M6 it's sure

It's all for the moment


----------



## audiohurric4ne

kz zs7 just arrived this morning. its really good for its price. unfortunately the kanas pro arrived 4 days earlier and i still cant get over how good the KP sounds.


----------



## nxnje

My review of the KZ ZS7 is online and contains quick comparisons with ZS6.
Like if you find that useful, hope it can help.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews#review-21512


----------



## PhonoPhi

TechnoidFR said:


> Here the backplate is in metal. The house exactly the same thing !


Does  CCA 16 have the same tip fit as  AS 10 by "three notches" and no mesh at the outside of the nozzle opening? Can they be called " the same"?


----------



## neo_styles

I just performed the ZS7 mod as recommended by @Slater. You're not kidding that there's a cavern beneath the 2-pin connector. To prevent shorts, I taped up the wires soldered in series and tucked them under the crossover, nestled everything inside that cavity, and gently put the 2-pin connector on top. Cleaned up the wiring to make sure the DD had breathing room as well, but maybe not as pretty as Slater's work (meh, it's going to be underneath a casing anyway).

Retesting everything and the A/B difference is...interesting. Granted, this is a brand-new pair and my ears are still adapting to the signature, but I think that haphazardly-placed crossover was choking airspace behind the DD. Bass quantity has gone up and I feel like things are generally airier in comparison. Today's home commute should help me figure out if the mod affected isolation, but if you're comfortable with tiny wires and don't have jittery fingers, I don't see why you wouldn't give it a shot.

Thanks again, Slater. Good observation. Baffles me why they just wrapped up all the slack and shoved it underneath the crossover when there was so much room in the corner.


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> Does  CCA 16 have the same tip fit as  AS 10 by "three notches" and no mesh at the outside of the nozzle opening? Can they be called " the same"?



Exactly the same thing


----------



## Slater (Jan 29, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> I just performed the ZS7 mod as recommended by @Slater. You're not kidding that there's a cavern beneath the 2-pin connector. To prevent shorts, I taped up the wires soldered in series and tucked them under the crossover, nestled everything inside that cavity, and gently put the 2-pin connector on top. Cleaned up the wiring to make sure the DD had breathing room as well, but maybe not as pretty as Slater's work (meh, it's going to be underneath a casing anyway).
> 
> Retesting everything and the A/B difference is...interesting. Granted, this is a brand-new pair and my ears are still adapting to the signature, but I think that haphazardly-placed crossover was choking airspace behind the DD. Bass quantity has gone up and I feel like things are generally airier in comparison. Today's home commute should help me figure out if the mod affected isolation, but if you're comfortable with tiny wires and don't have jittery fingers, I don't see why you wouldn't give it a shot.
> 
> Thanks again, Slater. Good observation. Baffles me why they just wrapped up all the slack and shoved it underneath the crossover when there was so much room in the corner.



Glad it went smoothly for you! Now that you’ve seen how much room is in that cavern, don’t you agree that it was meant to be there for some purpose?

Also, I forgot to clarify 2 things to anyone planning to attempt this:

1. The screws are T5 Torx. Same exact screws as the ZS6. NOT the same as the ZSN’s pentabit screws. Also, there’s only 2 screws to remove, as the 3rd is strictly cosmetic (ie fake). The correct screws to remove are the 2 screws by the 2-pin plug, NOT the screw by the nozzle.

2. You must be sure to put the 2-pin jacks back in the correct direction. Note that one side is rounded, and the other side is flat. The ROUNDED side points AWAY from the fake screw. The FLAT side points TOWARDS the fake screw.

If you put the 2-pin sockets back haphazardly, you risk making your ZS7 out of phase!

Here’s a crude drawing (of the R IEM) showing the screws as well as the proper orientation of the 2-pin socket. Note the L side will be a mirror image of the below drawing. The same rules apply (ie the fake screw is always towards the nozzle, rounded end of socket always points away from the nozzle, etc).


----------



## BoZ29

neo_styles said:


> I just performed the ZS7 mod as recommended by @Slater. You're not kidding that there's a cavern beneath the 2-pin connector. To prevent shorts, I taped up the wires soldered in series and tucked them under the crossover, nestled everything inside that cavity, and gently put the 2-pin connector on top. Cleaned up the wiring to make sure the DD had breathing room as well, but maybe not as pretty as Slater's work (meh, it's going to be underneath a casing anyway).
> 
> Retesting everything and the A/B difference is...interesting. Granted, this is a brand-new pair and my ears are still adapting to the signature, but I think that haphazardly-placed crossover was choking airspace behind the DD. Bass quantity has gone up and I feel like things are generally airier in comparison. Today's home commute should help me figure out if the mod affected isolation, but if you're comfortable with tiny wires and don't have jittery fingers, I don't see why you wouldn't give it a shot.
> 
> Thanks again, Slater. Good observation. Baffles me why they just wrapped up all the slack and shoved it underneath the crossover when there was so much room in the corner.


Maybe KZ is switched to IKEA style iems. You have to finish them yourself.... They only forgot to put in a small torx screwdriver...


----------



## neo_styles

BoZ29 said:


> Maybe KZ is switched to IKEA style iems. You have to finish them yourself.... They only forgot to put in a small torx screwdriver...


If that's the case, I'm missing that manual with the funny blob people and diagrams.


----------



## BoZ29

neo_styles said:


> If that's the case, I'm missing that manual with the funny blob people and diagrams.


Slater can make the diagrams! His skills are endlessly as we’ve seen a post earlier


----------



## Slater

BoZ29 said:


> Slater can make the diagrams! His skills are endlessly as we’ve seen a post earlier



Haha, I made that sitting at a stop light!

Quick and dirty, but gets the point across


----------



## Slater (Jan 29, 2019)

Attached is the ZS7 graph if anyone is interested.

Take it for a grain of salt. I don’t have my imm6 microphone calibration set up properly yet, nor do I have my coupler dialed in just right. I don’t even use a vinyl tube coupler like most people, but rather a cut down syringe.

I need to spend some serious time getting my rig in order. For example, on my current setup, sub bass has always measured more rolled off than it actually is in real life. So please keep that in mind. Don’t compare my ZS7 graph to anyone else’s graph, or make any buying decisions based on my graph.

The ZS7 has deeeeeep sub bass extension - bassheads will like it for sure.

On a positive note, my R and L channels are almost perfectly matched. They are within 0.5dB or less of one another. I was very impressed with the consistency of the channel matching!




Remember, don’t compare my ZS7 graph to anyone else’s graph, or make any buying decisions based on my graph.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 29, 2019)

Hmm. After listening to my ZS10 for a short time I'm not so sure I like it. It sounds a bit wonky and not tuned properly.

My AS10 sounds great but a bit boring and its annoying that badly recorded albums don't sound good on it. You'd think for the high cost they would have fixed that?

The KZ ATR and black ZSN are my favourites while the ATR doesnt have the highest clarity and the ZSN does sound congested at times.

After spending $200 on KZs it makes me realize this is a never ending battle and that one model may never be perfect.

With that being said the black ZSN are exciting to listen to and the ATR are great for hip hop.


----------



## Slater (Jan 29, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Hmm. After listening to my ZS10 for a short time I'm not so sure I like it. It sounds a bit wonky and not tuned properly.
> 
> My AS10 sounds great but a bit boring and its annoying that badly recorded albums don't sound good on it. You'd think for the high cost they would have fixed that?
> 
> ...



I don’t own the ZS10, so I’ve never heard it myself. But I see an awful lot of people mention that something just ‘doesn’t sound right’ with it.

You’re totally right too - no headphone is perfect. They all have pros and cons. This one may sound really good but have a poor fit or be fatiguing. That one may have a killer soundstage and holographic presentation, but annoying sibilance.

I think that’s why most of us are always chasing a unicorn that doesn’t really exist. The thing to do is find something that you like 95% and just be happy with it, instead of chasing perfection.

My dream come true would to have easy access to a local audiophile mega shop like e-earphones in Japan.



 

You could spend a few days (or weeks) trying dozens of pieces of gear, and walk out with ONE you’re absolutely in love with.

Unfortunately, 99% of us don’t have that luxury, so we have to read impressions and order stuff to figure out if we like it or not. It’s expensive, inefficient, and wasteful to do it that way. And we end up with a drawer full of unwanted gear. But it’s the only option most of us have.


----------



## BoZ29

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Hmm. After listening to my ZS10 for a short time I'm not so sure I like it. It sounds a bit wonky and not tuned properly.
> 
> My AS10 sounds great but a bit boring and its annoying that badly recorded albums don't sound good on it. You'd think for the high cost they would have fixed that?
> 
> ...


I have the ed-16, zs6 and zs7. The last one sounds great without eq. The only small complaint I have with the zs7 is a small peak in the upper mids. Sometimes a piano or vocal note sounds louder than others. It’s the crossover that isn’t tuned perfect, but it’s no big deal for me.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Few photos of the C16
https://twitter.com/Chifi_Fr/status/1090162498517516288?s=19

and continue to burn in


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Hmm. After listening to my ZS10 for a short time I'm not so sure I like it. It sounds a bit wonky and not tuned properly.
> 
> My AS10 sounds great but a bit boring and its annoying that badly recorded albums don't sound good on it. You'd think for the high cost they would have fixed that?
> 
> ...



I thought you've ordered the C10. It's a superlative ZSN upgrade. In a previous post you said, and I quote:


> After listening to the black ZSN and even though I have the AS10 i am like, *what's the point of buying another earphone?*



That struck, and it stuck. It makes sense. You see I've been thinking with the C10 and probably with the **** (which Clear recommends for its different but great tuning and capabilities) I'm already good. From here on I could just cycle through my in-ears and over-ears and speakers and simply get lost in my music. If ever the ZS7 or the next exotic DLC-Piezo-CNT comet falls below $30 then I might express interest. Now I'm happy and content.



Slater said:


> I don’t own the ZS10, so I’ve never heard it myself. But I see an awful lot of people mention that something just ‘doesn’t sound right’ with it.
> 
> You’re totally right too - no headphone is perfect. They all have pros and cons. This one may sound really good but have a poor fit or be fatiguing. That one may have a killer soundstage and holographic presentation, but annoying sibilance.
> 
> ...



Oooh... do they allow auditions? Wish we have something like that here. On the other hand, I have one that I already like very, very much—better than 95%—and it's a superlative $26 IEM. Let's see...I've about a year and a half, then retirement. When that happens I'll gift myself a TOTL IEM. Perhaps that Shure electrostatic that comes with its own portable amp. Or some other esoteric model on offer by then. And they'll be in my ears as I read a book beside my husband without a care in the world in an island hideaway somewhere.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> My AS10 sounds great but a bit boring and its annoying that badly recorded albums don't sound good on it. You'd think for the high cost they would have fixed that?



If the album is badly recorded, why and how would you expect any IEM or headphone to "fix"that?  It seems like then it would be useless for well recorded albums.


----------



## Slater (Jan 29, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> If the album is badly recorded, why and how would you expect any IEM or headphone to "fix"that?  It seems like then it would be useless for well recorded albums.



That’s like being annoyed that a VHS movie that was recorded on a potato quality camera back in 1982 looks bad on your 4K ultra high definition TV.



What a poor quality TV set! Oh wait...


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> That’s like being annoyed that a home movie you recorded on a potato quality video tape recorder back in 1982 looks bad on your 4K ultra high definition TV.
> 
> 
> 
> What a poor quality TV set! Oh wait...




Exactly.  Thank you for the great analogy.


----------



## moisespr123

Agreed. There's some albums that just doesn't sound right. These won't fix them, but will allow you to hear how badly they're recorded. Master recordings that seems to be using low quality mp3 files


----------



## BoZ29

I couldn’t stand the idea that my zs6 are now laying around without being used. So I did another experiment to get them good enough to be used without an equalizer. I did al the Slater mods, but wasn't satisfied. Now I tried something else. I put two pieces of very small foam in the barrels of the two BA drivers. After that I put a small (you have to experiment with the size) piece of foam (used the foam that’s in the bottom of a Spyderco knife box) in the Chinese Comply tips. The combination of the two is just enough to dim the treble without losing the sparkle and it has no effect on the bass. I used a toothpick to put the very small foam pieces in the BA drivers. Surprisingly this combi works (for me) so I thought, maybe it’s worth sharing.


----------



## BoZ29




----------



## SybilLance

moisespr123 said:


> Agreed. There's some albums that just doesn't sound right. These won't fix them, but will allow you to hear how badly they're recorded. Master recordings that seems to be using low quality mp3 files



Your music is what you make of it.

For me, music—whatever the genre or quality—taps into wellsprings of emotions and memories.

My collection of 78 rpm Victor records that I inherited from my father may sound horrendous by anybody’s standards when played in a high-end system but to me they provide vivid, holographic images of brisk early mornings and lazy afternoons listening with him that are so clear, detailed and lifelike and that make them absolutely the world’s best recordings.

That Best of Blue Magic R&B album may cause snickers among millennials but it contains the greatest love ballads of all time because my husband and I had our first dance, and second, and third, to those songs.

And those mp3s of the cassette tape compilations I’ve played for my children when they were babies held in my arms while I sang or hummed along, and that I still regularly listen to, before with the ATE and now with the C10, with no discernible difference in quality, are unquestionably the world’s best digital music files.


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> That’s like being annoyed that a VHS movie that was recorded on a potato quality camera back in 1982 looks bad on your 4K ultra high definition TV.
> 
> 
> 
> What a poor quality TV set! Oh wait...



This is sooooo true, bad recording means bad recording, if an iem reveal all the details of that bad recording, its not iem's fault.


----------



## Slater

BoZ29 said:


> I couldn’t stand the idea that my zs6 are now laying around without being used. So I did another experiment to get them good enough to be used without an equalizer. I did al the Slater mods, but wasn't satisfied. Now I tried something else. I put two pieces of very small foam in the barrels of the two BA drivers. After that I put a small (you have to experiment with the size) piece of foam (used the foam that’s in the bottom of a Spyderco knife box) in the Chinese Comply tips. The combination of the two is just enough to dim the treble without losing the sparkle and it has no effect on the bass. I used a toothpick to put the very small foam pieces in the BA drivers. Surprisingly this combi works (for me) so I thought, maybe it’s worth sharing.



Nice job!

You’re right; the ‘foam mod’ is very effective at dampening sibilance and overly sharp treble. Much moreso than trying to use ear tips or micropore tape to deal with it.

The foam from the $1.50 KZ plastic storage cases works extremely well too (shown on the ZST when it was originally released):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650

The ZST was KZs first foray into hybrid IEMs, and they used the 30095 they seem to love so much. But it’s treble was just too piercing for some (myself included)

As you found, the mod works on other BAs (ZS6 is a great candidate). The trick is getting the right size foam piece. Too small and it could fall out or it won’t even really do anything to the sound. Too big and it will be too dense, choking out the BA.

And then when you dial in just the right Goldilocks size, there’s the challenge of ensuring you cut an identical sized piece for the other BA so the treble is consistent on each side.


----------



## Francisk

Slater said:


> I don’t own the ZS10, so I’ve never heard it myself. But I see an awful lot of people mention that something just ‘doesn’t sound right’ with it.
> 
> My dream come true would to have easy access to a local audiophile mega shop like e-earphones in Japan.
> 
> ...



I've been to the Tokyo E-Earphone several times on my trips to Tokyo and I love it there. Staffs are very friendly and helpful. That's where I found the awesome Dynamic Motion DM200H which is my daily driver until today. I've not found any KZ IEMs that comes near the Dynamic Motion DM200H. Surprisingly the DM200H only has a single dynamic + a single BA in coaxial configuration that blows away many 5-6 drivers IEMs.


----------



## durwood (Jan 29, 2019)

Francisk said:


> I've been to the Tokyo E-Earphone several times on my trips to Tokyo and I love it there. Staffs are very friendly and helpful. That's where I found the awesome Dynamic Motion DM200H which is my daily driver until today. I've not found any KZ IEMs that comes near the Dynamic Motion DM200H. Surprisingly the DM200H only has a single dynamic + a single BA in coaxial configuration that blows away many 5-6 drivers IEMs.



Whoa, that's cool. I love a good coaxial speaker for coherency and dispersion matching in speakers (I have some tannoys, KEF and BMS). This was the first I have seen a DD + BA earphone use it (i know there are DD+DD like this). Are there any others? I know this is probably not the right thread.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> Attached is the ZS7 graph if anyone is interested.
> 
> Take it for a grain of salt. I don’t have my imm6 microphone calibration set up properly yet, nor do I have my coupler dialed in just right. I don’t even use a vinyl tube coupler like most people, but rather a cut down syringe.
> 
> ...


No worries!...your graph looks good!


----------



## Francisk

durwood said:


> Whoa, that's cool. I love a good coaxial speaker for coherency and dispersion matching in speakers (I have some tannoys, KEF and BMS). This was the first I have seen a DD + BA earphone use it (i know there are DD+DD like this). Are there any others? I know this is probably not the right thread.


There’s no other IEMs that I know with coaxial DD + BA configuration. Yes you’re right, this is off topic for this thread but you may PM me if you need more info.


----------



## BoZ29

Did some Slaterian organizing in my zs7 housing. Nice and clean now, crossover tucked away in a little foamy bedroom. Do I hear an improvement in the bass? Probably it’s suggestion, but you never know. Found the loose wire also.


----------



## Slater

BoZ29 said:


> Did some Slaterian organizing in my zs7 housing. Nice and clean now, crossover tucked away in a little foamy bedroom. Do I hear an improvement in the bass? Probably it’s suggestion, but you never know. Found the loose wire also.



How did your small capacitors look? Some of them are soldered crooked, like in this photo:


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> I don’t own the ZS10, so I’ve never heard it myself. But I see an awful lot of people mention that something just ‘doesn’t sound right’ with it.


I guess someone forget to tell me how bad the ZS10 was before I bought it... they had plenty of warning. Oh well, I'll let others know when they post wanting to buy it.


----------



## Trebor1966

Francisk said:


> There’s no other IEMs that I know with coaxial DD + BA configuration. Yes you’re right, this is off topic for this thread but you may PM me if you need more info.


Azla have also the same configuration


----------



## BoZ29

Slater said:


> How did your small capacitors look? Some of them are soldered crooked, like in this photo:


They looked ok.


----------



## Francisk

Trebor1966 said:


> Azla have also the same configuration


Nice but I've never heard of the Azla before. Thanks for pointing out.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I guess someone forget to tell me how bad the ZS10 was before I bought it... they had plenty of warning. Oh well, I'll let others know when they post wanting to buy it.



I like my ZS10.  Before I ordered mine, I had listened to several albums with my husband's pair.  I then wanted my own.. We all hear differently, have different sources etc.  I won't apologize for liking them


----------



## moisespr123

Question: How many times is it safe to change the IEM cable in the ZS7? I have 3 cables: 3.5mm no mic, 3.5mm with mic + 3 button inline control and the 2.5mm balanced cable.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jan 29, 2019)

moisespr123 said:


> Question: How many times is it safe to change the IEM cable in the ZS7? I have 3 cables: 3.5mm no mic, 3.5mm with mic + 3 button inline control and the 2.5mm balanced cable.



You could keep the balanced cable on it and then add a short 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm SE adapter when needed.  Saves some wear on the connectors.


----------



## eclein

TechnoidFR said:


> and continue to burn in



Please keep us updated, I’m so on the fence with jumping for C16 now. My C10s are better everyday it seems like to me, so unless I read somewhere that they sound better I’m saving the cash. Beside our friend quoted above has anyone seen anything anywhere on the web about C16s?


----------



## TechnoidFR

eclein said:


> Please keep us updated, I’m so on the fence with jumping for C16 now. My C10s are better everyday it seems like to me, so unless I read somewhere that they sound better I’m saving the cash. Beside our friend quoted above has anyone seen anything anywhere on the web about C16s?



Few more information

Very very detailed, my best item at all for this ! I think it's one of two axe of development.
The second is the neutral sound.

My Meizu 16th seems not enough good for exploit all of potential. Fortunately I received vivo nex dual display which are the master of audiophone (hi end ak portable dac normally ) for review
The hd sonata is not enough for C16, too noisy and not enough hi end for exploit them. 
For the first time, my source is clearly too cheap for them. I won't have the best review because my material isn't the best, clearly... And meizu have clearly a good amply...If you have a smartphone not really dedicated to audio (easy to check, see if there is a dac or amp) the C16 will be clearly under exploited. Like all sources too basic will bring out a background noise (very sensitive) and a certain slowness, poor rendering compared to its potential. The difference between a Honor V20 and a Meizu 16th is felt and the Honor is really good in audio

Need more using but I confirm that they are tending but stay lightly colored to not be boring. 
Treble stay a bit too elevated but better than as10
Two things that is interesting. 
The place of instruments is far more accurate, 3D area but more again. We can see more accurately than all iem I have where the instrument are. Like comparing different light, the "light" of C16 is very accurate without diffuse around. Create better coherent sound with more precise render. I can't explain better for the moment. I can better listen the difference of instruments and mix use with different air use in the mixed track. One is very muffled but the one behind is more discreet, more airy and contrasts a lot. What is interesting is that most of the iem tested until now really put back small noises or instruments placed here and there discreetly. We can not do it or can not pay attention in the music a little dense. Here the C16 have so many drivers that we hear them much more clearly and this is natural while showing some flaws or on the contrary showing a touch more beautiful to the music. The voices are even clearer than what I have so it's even better.
It is interesting to finish with the details. It's even more detailed, the brain feels more than me coming out of the ZS7, the contrast between these 2iem is huge but full of pieces bring out a lot of little details or instruments that I heard less before, or that I did not notice. 


Take a as10
Put more driver
Affine the tuning
You have a better, boosted and overpowered new as10.

Work these model, CCA shows that these company will be the premium models and kz cheaper and V shaped models.

Need more listen them with vivo nex but very interesting model, not only marketing the 16drivers are really using for better sound. The most surprising being the rather neutral signature but a bit brilliant that is not in the habits of kz


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 29, 2019)

My concern for CCA C16 is that only 3 different kinds of drivers are used: 2 identical bass BAs, 2 identical for mids and 4 identical for the treble.
(AS10 has 4 different types of BA drivers).
The most important, of course, how well it sounds, but it is hard not to think whether it may be just quantity over quality.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Finally updated my KZ guide and added the following models: ZS10, ZSN, ZSA, ZS4, ES4, ED15, ED16, AS06, AS10, and BA10. This brings us to 41 in total. Enjoy! 

*Updates were made in Parts 2-5.*

Part 1 - Old, discontinued models
Part 2 - ED series + ES4
Part 3 - ATx, HDx, and Zx series
Part 4 - Armature only models
Part 5 - Top five lists


----------



## PhonoPhi

Thank you for the great overview and historical perspective!
My opinion on KZ10, AS10 and AS06 is quite a bit different; and then CCA C10 to me is so much more  in what KZ10 should have been (in my subjective opinion).
I still remain an ardent fun of AS10 - still my favourite from KZ/CCA (it was love from the very first sound) but I would understand that most can prefer CCA C10. C10 price is just unbelievable, and to me it can perfectly compete in its value per price  ratio with ZSN without any considerations for " the law of diminished returns".


----------



## B9Scrambler

PhonoPhi said:


> Thank you for the great overview and historical perspective!
> My opinion on KZ10, AS10 and AS06 is quite a bit different; and then CCA C10 to me is so much more  in what KZ10 should have been (in my subjective opinion).
> I still remain an ardent fun of AS10 - still my favourite from KZ/CCA (it was love from the very first sound) but I would understand that most can prefer CCA C10. C10 price is just unbelievable, and to me it can perfectly compete in its value per price  ratio with ZSN without any considerations for " the law of diminished returns".



Glad you enjoyed it. AS10 was my fav of their current crop and I really respect what they did with it, especially since it was their first all-BA earphone, but the BA10 is truly something special to my ears. Can't be beat, yet. Can listen to that thing for hours. Have a C10 on the way and am really excited to give them a listen after reading everyone's thoughts on it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I just got my Tennmak 2018 Piano earphones in and with the TRN 8 core cable they make the KZ ZSA and ZS10 look like a bad joke. Including other models like the ZST, ZS3, etc.

I paid $11.50 US on Ali for the earphone pieces. Out of the box they sound cool and live music sounds like you're actually watching it live. KZ is a great company, but they do make some duds.


----------



## BoZ29

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got my Tennmak 2018 Piano earphones in and with the TRN 8 core cable they make the KZ ZSA and ZS10 look like a bad joke. Including other models like the ZST, ZS3, etc.
> 
> I paid $11.50 US on Ali for the earphone pieces. Out of the box they sound cool and live music sounds like you're actually watching it live. KZ is a great company, but they do make some duds.


Maybe they sound great, I like the black version,  but the colored versions look like a my little pony accessory


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 30, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Finally updated my KZ guide and added the following models: ZS10, ZSN, ZSA, ZS4, ES4, ED15, ED16, AS06, AS10, and BA10. This brings us to 41 in total. Enjoy!
> 
> *Updates were made in Parts 2-5.*
> 
> ...



Bookmarked.

When I dove headfirst into this milieu, curious as I was with my husband’s fascination for audio headgear, I didn’t expect to be as immersed in it as I am with 2-channel stereo.

Now, after fully reading your remarkable 5-part article on KZ headphones, I wish I had this resource when I started. What impresses me most is not just that it’s practically a guide and reference to KZ’s product history and evolution, but more importantly, that it relates and shares your own personal journey through it. This to me is more valuable, for surely deeper insight can be gleaned from this by those who are just attempting to start on their own foray into headphones, as the nature of the person writing down his thoughts and experiences takes form and with which they could identify. Not once in all five parts is “Chi-Fi” mentioned, which I find significant because there are so many here who use that term to connote ‘cheap and inferior’ and also quite a few who use it together with the mention of KZ as a pejorative to be superciliously dismissive. It's proof enough of your affection for the brand and respect for those who in turn find enjoyment and pleasure in its products, be they ever so humble. By this what you’ve written comes across as a genuine, sincere effort to be helpful and evidently it’s successful, too, because of the comments they’ve generated in your blog, which comments you so kindly take the time to respond.

If I have my say I’d like this to be a sticky in this thread, along with Slater’s innumerable, eminently helpful and by now—if they were compiled—encyclopedic collection of tips and tricks and DIY guides and modifications most of which bear his name.

As I’m tapping this response I could not help but think, wouldn’t it be lovely if we have such an easily accessible repository of sorts for all the useful hard information as well as all those tips and tricks on various KZ products gathered through the years, like a Knowledge Zenith (KZ) Open Resource or something, perhaps? I tell you searching for the specific post that contains the needed information is a chore and a pain. This article of yours and Slater’s waiting-to-be-compiled compendium of Knowledge Zenith knowledge could form its foundation. Surely there are many others. Off the cuff I could name hakuzen’s constantly updated database on the DC resistance of various in-ear headphone cables, etc.

Anyway, thank you.  



Edit: supplied a missing apostrophe


----------



## Mellowship

B9Scrambler said:


> Finally updated my KZ guide and added the following models: ZS10, ZSN, ZSA, ZS4, ES4, ED15, ED16, AS06, AS10, and BA10. This brings us to 41 in total. Enjoy!
> 
> *Updates were made in Parts 2-5.*
> 
> ...



Great job!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

kg


PhonoPhi said:


> Thank you for the great overview and historical perspective!
> My opinion on KZ10, AS10 and AS06 is quite a bit different; and then CCA C10 to me is so much more  in what KZ10 should have been (in my subjective opinion).
> I still remain an ardent fun of AS10 - still my favourite from KZ/CCA (it was love from the very first sound) but I would understand that most can prefer CCA C10. C10 price is just unbelievable, and to me it can perfectly compete in its value per price  ratio with ZSN without any considerations for " the law of diminished returns".


I still don't know how the C10 is priced so low. Maybe its a loss leader for them to get people buzzing about the brand so they go out and drop $100 on the C16? I dunno, but there is really only a couple iems in the $50 bracket that could subjectively hang with them. 
I paid $45 for the ZS10 when it came out, and there really is no comparison between them. C10 is superior in every aspect of the signature and technicals compared to ZS10. I would have had no issues paying $45 for the C10. 

Whatever. Its amazing that people can get a bonifide legit great sounding iem for $25.


----------



## TechnoidFR

I continue my listening of the C16. I use the Vivo Nex dual display. Better dac than the Meizu. I use Korn - Path of Totality album which is very interesting. Track are very dense.

C16 are very impressive, they are very fast, clear and clean. It's clearly the most technical that I have. They are really fast, no bleed, a clarity high level which help a lot which few voices on this album. It's incredible this level of technic for this price. They are very fast, accurate, controlled. The soundstage with this accuracy is absolutely awesome. The placement of each instrument is highly accurate on the scene. 

No sibilance, no harsh. Maybe agressive on some track or source. 

Just WOW


----------



## eclein

TechnoidFR said:


> Just WOW



Thanks for the updates!!!


----------



## PhonoPhi

BadReligionPunk said:


> kg
> 
> I still don't know how the C10 is priced so low. Maybe its a loss leader for them to get people buzzing about the brand so they go out and drop $100 on the C16? I dunno, but there is really only a couple iems in the $50 bracket that could subjectively hang with them.
> I paid $45 for the ZS10 when it came out, and there really is no comparison between them. C10 is superior in every aspect of the signature and technicals compared to ZS10. I would have had no issues paying $45 for the C10.
> ...


Exactly (!) my experience and impressions word for word!
I though last evening the same - $45 would be very fair price for C10 to me (the same price I got KZ10 and AS10).
C16 can easily cost twice more than C10, but more than 3 times (?)
My (limited and subjective) reasonable price estimate for C16 would be $85-88.


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I guess someone forget to tell me how bad the ZS10 was before I bought it... they had plenty of warning. Oh well, I'll let others know when they post wanting to buy it.



Must have a duff one, mine are fine. 
Abit muffled in their presentation and slightly bloated bass. But a little EQ in bass region and they seem fine to my cynical ears.
But we all have different ears, different tastes and this hobby is some what subjective you would agree.


----------



## PhonoPhi

B9Scrambler said:


> Glad you enjoyed it. AS10 was my fav of their current crop and I really respect what they did with it, especially since it was their first all-BA earphone, but the BA10 is truly something special to my ears. Can't be beat, yet. Can listen to that thing for hours. Have a C10 on the way and am really excited to give them a listen after reading everyone's thoughts on it.


I was thinking about C16 value yesterday night and checked the prices for BA10. Then supported with your positive and well-argumented opinion, I decided to order it. 
Hopefully it will fit well and will have a bit extended highs (the only thing I possibly miss in AS10).

I will now have all the "10"s


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> I still don't know how the C10 is priced so low.



Maybe it just shows that others are priced too high.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 30, 2019)

Mybutthurts said:


> Must have a duff one, mine are fine.
> Abit muffled in their presentation and slightly bloated bass. But a little EQ in bass region and they seem fine to my cynical ears.
> But we all have different ears, different tastes and this hobby is some what subjective you would agree.



While preferring AS10, ZS10 should be fairly appreciated for its very nice coherence and an ample stage (at least to my ears), and the bass is mighty 
I definitely not regret having it in my collection  even that CA10 feels more capable.


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> I was thinking about C16 value yesterday night and checked the prices for BA10. Then supported with your positive and well-argumented opinion, I decided to order it.
> Hopefully it will fit well and will have a bit extended highs (the only thing I possibly miss in AS10).
> 
> I will now have all the "10"s



I'll compare with as10 too. I'll say that this night


----------



## DynamicEars

TechnoidFR said:


> I'll compare with as10 too. I'll say that this night



with KC2 too pleaseeeeeee


----------



## Mybutthurts

PhonoPhi said:


> While preferring AS10, ZS10 should be fairly appreciated for its very nice coherence and an ample stage (at least to my ears), and the bass is mighty
> I definitely not regret having it in my collection  even that CA10 feels more capable.



Please stop it with the cca c10, I'm now considering get one...

I also have both the AS10 & ZS10, love both of them but the AS10 is my go to set. 
ZS10 needs some EQ to my taste, the AS10 none on my FIIO X1. Also, changed tips to NewBee silicone which provides a good fit.
Will see if on next pension day I'll have enough pennies to get the C10.


----------



## c4rb0n

Its time my brothers, its time


----------



## TechnoidFR

Mybutthurts said:


> Please stop it with the cca c10, I'm now considering get one...
> 
> I also have both the AS10 & ZS10, love both of them but the AS10 is my go to set.
> ZS10 needs some EQ to my taste, the AS10 none on my FIIO X1. Also, changed tips to NewBee silicone which provides a good fit.
> Will see if on next pension day I'll have enough pennies to get the C10.



For me the zs10 replaced by zs7.


----------



## B9Scrambler

SybilLance said:


> Bookmarked.
> 
> When I dove headfirst into this milieu, curious as I was with my husband’s fascination for audio headgear, I didn’t expect to be as immersed in it as I am with 2-channel stereo.
> 
> ...



Glad you found it interesting and appreciated the personal side of it. Thank you for the kind comments  

It's the subjective experiences that I personally enjoy reading about most, even if I don't agree with them at all, and as such that carries over heavily into my impressions and reviews. That may mean my comments won't match up with others and will not be 100% accurate, but I'm okay with that. Individual experiences hold a lot more value imo and I'm not surprised that they are often as varied and unique as the people writing them. Some legendary iems measured like absolute trash (ex. Havi B3 Pro I), yet they are treasured because it all came together to produce an amazing experience. The more time I spend in this hobby the less I care about measurements since they tell such a small part of the story, rarely line up with my experiences or add significant value to them, and often end up detracting from and/or overriding what an individual user actually experiences. I miss discussion about what we hear as opposed to the "this is what the graph says" mentality that is becoming more prominent. Even if what we hear is "wrong". The measurement side of the hobby undeniably has value and seems to be a direction the hobby is heading, it's just not an aspect that jells with me personally and why I've moved to more of an observer than participant in the forums.

I for one can't wait for Slater's in-depth KZ coverage. Would also love to see @DocHoliday 's reviews/impressions complied since he has covered a slew of them too. KZs aren't giant killers, but they are inexpensive and excellent products for helping people find a signature they like so they can move on to bigger and better things. That said, I've tried plenty of bigger and better things and I'm still happy to be firmly stuck in KZ hell  

 Micro Ring Love ​
​


----------



## TechnoidFR

DynamicEars said:


> with KC2 too pleaseeeeeee



Ah ah I'll try this. But it's sure, technoctech they are far better. I think replaced as10/KC2 by C16. 

My top 5 is transformed in top 3. The best of the best for me


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Got my C10 today and OOTB they feel head and shoulders above ZSN to me. Maybe I'm lucky or it's just my audio perception but they're monstrous from the very first second! If an analogy is to be drawn between ZSN and C10 then ZSN is like a vivacious kid who knows how to pack a proper punch whereas C10 is prime Muhammad Ali 

Just need to try some tip rolling if it can further enhance them. Looks like I'm done for 2019.

Although if **** drop below $20 I'd be slightly tempted, till then it's all over!


----------



## indie89 (Jan 31, 2019)

Hi there from Germany!

Been reading the last 250 pages when I was looking for a proper in ear monitor for actually making music on stage. Won't be using it for listening to recorded music. I was quickly convinced to give kz a try, for we fortunately have someone selling it over Amazon prime in Germany (with the option to send it back within 30 days). Considering the different models, I decided it was either AS10 or zs7. So I ordered them both and last night I had the opportunity to compare them (listening to music, not yet on stage).

I was amazed by the detailed sound of both, for I was before using a Shure s315 (which is at around 3-4x the cost) which sounded muffled in comparison. For I play rock and singer songwriter music (guitar and vocals) I chose the test songs accordingly. And I really enjoyed the AS10 much more than the zs7. Especially for its sparkling trebles and it's even more detailed sound. I was even a bit unsure if received a faulty zs7 for some guys here were writing about its even better trebles compared to every other KZ gear. For monitoring I don't need deep bass, so the strength of the dd in the zs7 can't pay off. Although I liked the fit of the zs7 shape better than the AS10 (which are much bigger).

I will be able to compare them in our rehearsing room on Monday with actual "self made music".

Unfortunately there is no  cca gear here at Amazon prime, for I would like to try the c10 and maybe even c16.

Do you have some more recommendations or hints for me concerning different models?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dani157 said:


> Got my C10 today and OOTB they feel head and shoulders above ZSN to me. Maybe I'm lucky or it's just my audio perception but they're monstrous from the very first second! If an analogy is to be drawn between ZSN and C10 then ZSN is like a vivacious kid who knows how to pack a proper punch whereas C10 is prime Muhammad Ali
> 
> Just need to try some tip rolling if it can further enhance them. Looks like I'm done for 2019.
> 
> Although if **** drop below $20 I'd be slightly tempted, till then it's all over!


That was kind of my reaction when I also jammed c10 into my ears.  Slightly different signature between the two with zsn having faster, more linear))bass and more forward mids, but the trade off is well worth it for the separation and stage improvements.  I swore that was it for this year too,  but then got suckered into ordering ****. That should be here early next week.  

Now c16 GAS is starting to hit me hard.  Lol


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

BadReligionPunk said:


> That was kind of my reaction when I also jammed c10 into my ears.  Slightly different signature between the two with zsn having faster, more linear))bass and more forward mids, but the trade off is well worth it for the separation and stage improvements.  I swore that was it for this year too,  but then got suckered into ordering ****. That should be here early next week.
> 
> Now c16 GAS is starting to hit me hard.  Lol




It is difficult to stay away from this hype train! Although I'd skip C16s and keep my vow of purchasing only sub $30 IEMs  **** and N3 are tantalizing to say the least


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

indie89 said:


> Hi there from Germany!
> 
> Been reading the last 250 pages when I was looking for a proper in ear monitor for actually making music on stage. Won't be using it for listening to music from "artificial" sources . I was quickly convinced to give kz a try, for we fortunately have someone selling it over Amazon prime in Germany (with the option to send it back within 30 days). Considering the different models, I decided it was either AS10 or zs7. So I ordered them both and last night I had the opportunity to compare them (listening to music, not yet on stage).
> 
> ...




If you can purchase from AliExpress then you should probably try purchasing from there. **** is also a great choice.


----------



## Slater (Jan 30, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Not once in all five parts is “Chi-Fi” mentioned, which I find significant because there are so many here who use that term to connote ‘cheap and inferior’ and also quite a few who use it together with the mention of KZ as a pejorative to be superciliously dismissive.



Maybe I’m naive or don’t hang out in the right threads, but I’ve never seen ChiFi used as a derogatory term to mean cheap and inferior.

I’ve always just known it as referring to Chinese HiFi. In other words, when someone mentions ChiFi, everyone knows what they’re talking about. It’s like a shorthand way to refer to it.

Kind of like when we say “Google it”, that means do a web search even if not using the Google search engine. Or if someone says they “flew from New York to Chicago”, everyone knows they meant fly on an airplane and not a helicopter, hit air balloon, jet pack, or zeppelin.

In today’s world, literally 70-80% of all consumer products produced are made in China. It’s just a fact of life nowadays; I don’t think there’s anything inherently derogatory in it.

Of course there’s the occasional stereotype that pokes fun at some crawlity control problems. But products can have QC issues no matter where they are manufactured.

I guess you might be referring to the type of person that spends $6k on a set of IEMs. But those are the kind of people that have a derogatory outlook on everything, such as flying on a commuter airplane instead of a private Gulfstream IV, or driving a Toyota Camry instead of a chauffeured Rolls Royce, or eating Pho and a beer instead of lobster and caviar with Cristal.

The ironic thing about those type of people is that even if their $6k IEM isn’t “made in China”, guess where most of the raw components are made? The plastic pellets or aluminum used to make the shells, the silicone eartips, the nozzle screens, the litz wiring, the crossover circuit board, the individual crossover components, the mmcx or 2-pin sockets, the wire for the cable, the foam insert for the packaging, the printing ink for the labels, the adhesive for any stickers, the shrink wrap for the retail box, etc? Yup, you guessed it...


----------



## indie89

Dani157 said:


> If you can purchase from AliExpress then you should probably try purchasing from there. **** is also a great choice.



Thanks for the hint! The advantage of Amazon prime is that you can buy multiple gear and send back those you don't like. I can (and did) buy from AliExpress but only things that I'm sure I want to keep. For trying out, this is not the best way...

The **** might be a good choice soundwise, but on stage I need in ear monitors that stay in place. And although the exact look doesn't matter the "bullet" in ears are too "visible" IMHO.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dani157 said:


> It is difficult to stay away from this hype train! Although I'd skip C16s and keep my vow of purchasing only sub $30 IEMs  **** and N3 are tantalizing to say the least



Yes N3 has got me hard too.  Dang! Graph looks almost identical to my semkarch cnt1, but with more bass and more sparkles and presence up top. Going to wait for reviews on them before buying them though.  

Oddly,  my NY resolution was to up my game back into the 100-200 dollar range.  Have the money saved for kanas pro, and ex800st, but was so happy with c10 I decided to save up for hiby r6 pro.


----------



## 1clearhead

Dani157 said:


> Got my C10 today and OOTB they feel head and shoulders above ZSN to me. Maybe I'm lucky or it's just my audio perception but they're monstrous from the very first second! If an analogy is to be drawn between ZSN and C10 then ZSN is like a vivacious kid who knows how to pack a proper punch whereas C10 is prime Muhammad Ali
> 
> Just need to try some tip rolling if it can further enhance them. Looks like I'm done for 2019.
> 
> Although if **** drop below $20 I'd be slightly tempted, till then it's all over!


It's addictive!...My wife took mines away from me! I had no choice but to order another one. True story!

Soon, my C10 will not be alone again...I will get another DT clone!


----------



## TechnoidFR

indie89 said:


> Hi there from Germany!
> 
> Been reading the last 250 pages when I was looking for a proper in ear monitor for actually making music on stage. Won't be using it for listening to music from "artificial" sources . I was quickly convinced to give kz a try, for we fortunately have someone selling it over Amazon prime in Germany (with the option to send it back within 30 days). Considering the different models, I decided it was either AS10 or zs7. So I ordered them both and last night I had the opportunity to compare them (listening to music, not yet on stage).
> 
> ...



For monitoring go C16.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

1clearhead said:


> It's addictive!...My wife took mines away from me! I had no choice but to order another one. True story!
> 
> Soon, my C10 will not be alone again...I will get another DT clone!



Whoa! But can surely understand why your wife snatched them away from you  Heck, I may just buy another pair of C10 just to have a backup in case anything goes awry with this pair. If you can help, just wanted to know whether foam tips do significantly alter C10's signature? As they do smoothen out treble in my ZSNs. If they do, then I'd go for larger silicone tips.


----------



## 1clearhead

Dani157 said:


> Whoa! But can surely understand why your wife snatched them away from you  Heck, I may just buy another pair of C10 just to have a backup in case anything goes awry with this pair. If you can help, just wanted to know whether foam tips do significantly alter C10's signature? As they do smoothen out treble in my ZSNs. If they do, then I'd go for larger silicone tips.


I never bothered changing the default silicone ear tips since they sounded so intriguing to me!...Burning them in 20 hours "plus" did it for me!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

1clearhead said:


> I never bothered changing the default silicone ear tips since they sounded so intriguing to me!...Burning them in 20 hours "plus" did it for me!



Precisely why I'm sceptical on tip rolling. I think I need to improve seal. I'd try with L tips bundled in or ZSN tips.


----------



## indie89

TechnoidFR said:


> For monitoring go C16.



I'd love to try them...do you know a shop that offers shipping from Europe? In order to avoid troubles with customs...
And: of course "more ba and a higher price should result in better sound (monitoring) quality", but is it worth the money compared to as10?

additional question: the zs7 are (subjectively) really comfortable to wear. How do c10 or c16 compare to them in matter of size?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

indie89 said:


> I'd love to try them...do you know a shop that offers shipping from Europe? In order to avoid troubles with customs...
> And: of course "more ba and a higher price should result in better sound (monitoring) quality", but is it worth the money compared to as10?
> 
> additional question: the zs7 are (subjectively) really comfortable to wear. How do c10 or c16 compare to them in matter of size?



C10s are very comfortable although depending upon size of your ears you may need to roll tips. Can easily be used for hours without any issues


----------



## Nimweth

BadReligionPunk said:


> That was kind of my reaction when I also jammed c10 into my ears.  Slightly different signature between the two with zsn having faster, more linear))bass and more forward mids, but the trade off is well worth it for the separation and stage improvements.  I swore that was it for this year too,  but then got suckered into ordering ****. That should be here early next week.
> 
> Now c16 GAS is starting to hit me hard.  Lol


Don't worry about the ****, you weren't suckered, just wait till you hear it! Make sure you use wide bore tips. I have the C16 on the way, should be here by next week.


----------



## indie89

Dani157 said:


> C10s are very comfortable although depending upon size of your ears you may need to roll tips. Can easily be used for hours without any issues


comfort is highly subjective...for this reason i mentioned that the zs7 suit me very well in regards of comfort and size (I use my own tips anyway so it's a matter of size and shape of the corpus). Are the zs7 (or zs6) of similar size and shape as the c10? Thanks


----------



## Nimweth

TechnoidFR said:


> Ah ah I'll try this. But it's sure, technoctech they are far better. I think replaced as10/KC2 by C16.
> 
> My top 5 is transformed in top 3. The best of the best for me


My top three at the moment are:
1. ****
2. CCA C10
3. V2
C16 coming, though!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

indie89 said:


> comfort is highly subjective...for this reason i mentioned that the zs7 suit me very well in regards of comfort and size (I use my own tips anyway so it's a matter of size and shape of the corpus). Are the zs7 (or zs6) of similar size and shape as the c10? Thanks



I do not own either of those KZs so can't comment on that. But it is very similar to ZSN in terms of shell and size.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yes N3 has got me hard too.  Dang! Graph looks almost identical to my semkarch cnt1, but with more bass and more sparkles and presence up top. Going to wait for reviews on them before buying them though.
> 
> Oddly,  my NY resolution was to up my game back into the 100-200 dollar range.  Have the money saved for kanas pro, and ex800st, but was so happy with c10 I decided to save up for hiby r6 pro.



Someone really has saved for a windfall in 2019! Hope you begin the year with C16s.


----------



## durwood (Jan 30, 2019)

So when the ZS7 came out, it seemed like the CCA C10 in a different shell. Given that we have a C10 measurement now and a ZS7 measurement, they look close to me. The only thing I would worry about is if the CCA C10 has the same possible QC issues with the crossover board. I wonder given Crabdogs graph if his C10 has an issue with the cap. Personaly I love the look of the ZS7/ZS6 more than the CCA, but the fit of the CCA/ZSN is more comfortable for me.

C10 courtesy of @crabdog







ZS7 courtest of @Wiljen


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> So when the ZS7 came out, it seemed like the CCA C10 in a different shell. Given that we have a C10 measurement now and a ZS7 measurement, they look close to me. The only thing I would worry about is if the CCA C10 has the same possible QC issues with the crossover board. I wonder given Crabdogs graph if his C10 has an issue with the cap. Personaly I love the look of the ZS7/ZS6 more than the CCA, but the fit of the CCA/ZSN is more comfortable for me.
> 
> C10 courtesy of @crabdog
> 
> ...



If they are indeed the ‘same thing’, one advantage of the ZS7 is the easily removable rear cover. Which is handy to correct out of phase 2-pin plugs, to check for crossover wiring issues, to do the vertical crossover mod (which may or may not improve the bass), to swap covers with ZS6 for a customized look, etc.


----------



## durwood

agreed, not saying you can't remove the CCA cover, it's just that the ZS& is way easier to remove.


----------



## bhazard

Now that there are more people with them, which one is better... AS10 or ZS7?


----------



## TechnoidFR

indie89 said:


> I'd love to try them...do you know a shop that offers shipping from Europe? In order to avoid troubles with customs...
> And: of course "more ba and a higher price should result in better sound (monitoring) quality", but is it worth the money compared to as10?
> 
> additional question: the zs7 are (subjectively) really comfortable to wear. How do c10 or c16 compare to them in matter of size?



Aliexpress : Always free

They are far better. More technical, more clear etc ( already exposed few pages before


----------



## darmanastartes

Just posted my CCA-C10 review.


----------



## kadas152

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got my Tennmak 2018 Piano earphones in and with the TRN 8 core cable they make the KZ ZSA and ZS10 look like a bad joke. Including other models like the ZST, ZS3, etc.
> 
> I paid $11.50 US on Ali for the earphone pieces. Out of the box they sound cool and live music sounds like you're actually watching it live. KZ is a great company, but they do make some duds.



Do you know if they changed anything from 2016 Pianos? I still like them but I like my ES4 better. Comparable price point...


----------



## Sylmar

bhazard said:


> Now that there are more people with them, which one is better... AS10 or ZS7?



I must say that I'm also curious about that.


----------



## TechnoidFR

bhazard said:


> Now that there are more people with them, which one is better... AS10 or ZS7?



Different but very good.
AS10 is more balanced
ZS7 is highly fun and dynamic


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Maybe I’m naive or don’t hang out in the right threads, but I’ve never seen ChiFi used as a derogatory term to mean cheap and inferior.



yup, a few certain groups use it as such, sadly. Its hard to be objective when people have a hard-on for hating anything chi-fi. Almost as bad as people having a hard-on for hating a particular brand like KZ.

qdc, Moondrop, Ibasso "oh those doesn't count"


----------



## eclein (Jan 30, 2019)

So I’m ordering the C16 and an old friend who started WYWIRES is sending me a sample cable he’s selling. I’m gonna put a $200 cable on the C16 and see if I can *levitate!!*


----------



## SybilLance (Jan 31, 2019)

Have to run, so combined posts.


B9Scrambler said:


> Glad you found it interesting and appreciated the personal side of it. Thank you for the kind comments
> 
> It's the subjective experiences that I personally enjoy reading about most, even if I don't agree with them at all, and as such that carries over heavily into my impressions and reviews. That may mean my comments won't match up with others and will not be 100% accurate, but I'm okay with that. Individual experiences hold a lot more value imo and I'm not surprised that they are often as varied and unique as the people writing them. Some legendary iems measured like absolute trash (ex. Havi B3 Pro I), yet they are treasured because it all came together to produce an amazing experience. The more time I spend in this hobby the less I care about measurements since they tell such a small part of the story, rarely line up with my experiences or add significant value to them, and often end up detracting from and/or overriding what an individual user actually experiences. I miss discussion about what we hear as opposed to the "this is what the graph says" mentality that is becoming more prominent. Even if what we hear is "wrong". The measurement side of the hobby undeniably has value and seems to be a direction the hobby is heading, it's just not an aspect that jells with me personally and why I've moved to more of an observer than participant in the forums.
> 
> ...



You’re most welcome. The personal side of the listening experience together with the shared love and affection (and annoyance and exasperation) for the headphones and related audio products of this improbably successful Knowledge Zenith brand form a strong and interesting bond among us who frequent or are residents of this thread, that much I’ve perceived in the relatively short time I’ve been here, despite the differences of opinions present, and that by the way run the gamut from the very slight and tangential to contrarian to polar opposites.

It’s noticeable, too, when such bond is weak because the discussions take a turn towards silliness or the ludicrous. But I don’t mind silliness or irreverence—I enjoy it. What I mind is condescension, an attitude that I intensely hate. And which attitude, when you think about it is ironic, misplaced and ridiculous since how we listen to music is defined by subjective impressions, which are uniquely personal, to say the least.

As for the over-reliance on frequency response (FR) graphs, I can relate to how you feel since I was sideswiped with a snarky comment then was drawn into a preposterous running discussion with a fluid point of argument that was ultimately hinged on some graph. There’s nothing wrong with FR graphs; I believe they do have immense value if the measuring equipment used and methods are indicated; or if such graphs were part of a large enough database wherein identical, standardized and carefully calibrated equipment is used. There are at least 2 that I know here in head-fi: its very own slowly growing collection measured through its own SOTA measurement lab and that of crinacle. As for comparison overlays I find them useful where 2 or more of those in-ears measured are known to me, for at least they provide a _rough_ idea of how the one I’m interested in _might_ sound. A solitary FR graph could only give some _approximation_ of the magnitude of a headphone’s reproduction in the audible frequency range; but, if it’s presented by someone whom I trust and whose ears more or less coincide with my own hearing then it’s more than welcome. Ultimately what I hear is paramount. Anyhow here’s the complete quote from the Preface and Introduction to Peter Damaske’s _Acoustics and Hearing_ (Springer, 2008) that I’m currently trying to read and that I surprisingly could now understand, with some help:

“_However, powerful measuring techniques should not be allowed to mislead us to forget that acoustical quality is basically defined by subjective sound impressions_.”

I almost forgot. You have the C10 coming, right? It’s very exciting to read that the enthusiasm for this KZ cousin is growing and that those who have it recognize its abilities, admit that it indeed is a superlative IEM and place it among their top list of favorites. For a while even after I posted my C10 impressions update I thought the AS06 betters it in the bass department but for the last couple of days, going through my music library and listening to my reference songs many, many times, I’ve changed my mind.

The CCA C10 is It.



Dani157 said:


> It is difficult to stay away from this hype train! Although I'd skip C16s and keep my vow of purchasing only sub $30 IEMs  **** and N3 are tantalizing to say the least



Welcome aboard! Glad to have some nice company in this wonderful fast-moving sub-$30 realm.  



Slater said:


> Maybe I’m naive or don’t hang out in the right threads, but I’ve never seen ChiFi used as a derogatory term to mean cheap and inferior.
> 
> I’ve always just known it as referring to Chinese HiFi. In other words, when someone mentions ChiFi, everyone knows what they’re talking about. It’s like a shorthand way to refer to it.
> 
> ...



Well… I could name a few in this thread, mostly transients but where KZ is concerned one very recently gave a valedictory comment and ironically it took someone who’s supposed to have already left to remind that person that what was delivered was an insult. 

Lately I’ve been spending more time as a guest in the other threads and forums, including the so-called high-end threads in my quest for the perfect gift and frankly I was taken aback with the gradations of shade tossed about when “Chi-Fi” is mentioned. I won’t even talk about the ones my beloved KZ is receiving. I couldn’t help it; precision and the ability to discern nuances and submerged subtleties are crucial in my profession. It does seem that there are more of those stereotypes than are previously thought. 

You are right, though; Chi-Fi should be taken to mean exactly as it should, nothing more, nothing less.



Dani157 said:


> Whoa! But can surely understand why your wife snatched them away from you  Heck, I may just buy another pair of C10 just to have a backup in case anything goes awry with this pair. If you can help, just wanted to know whether foam tips do significantly alter C10's signature? As they do smoothen out treble in my ZSNs. If they do, then I'd go for larger silicone tips.



The best one for me is a pair of old, slow-rebound, medium-sized, wide-bore ball-shaped foam tips. The ones I've been using and through which my impressions in my C10 update were obtained. If the foam tips are not the right size and not wide-bore they'll definitely affect the sound for the worse. SpinFits didn't work. I believe BadReligionPunk uses JVC Spiral Dots on his, which I'd like to try but the right size (M or MS) is difficult to get in our part of the world.



Nimweth said:


> My top three at the moment are:
> 1. ****
> 2. CCA C10
> 3. V2
> C16 coming, though!



Mine:
1. CCA C10
2. CCA C10
3. CCA C10


Also:
KZ ZSN - for those perk-me-up mornings
AS06 - exclusively for cellos, string chamber music and double bass sessions



Zerohour88 said:


> yup, a few certain groups use it as such, sadly. Its hard to be objective when people have a hard-on for hating anything chi-fi. Almost as bad as people having a hard-on for hating a particular brand like KZ.
> 
> qdc, Moondrop, Ibasso "oh those doesn't count"


+1 (Although I wouldn't put it in such terms)


----------



## indie89 (Jan 31, 2019)

Sylmar said:


> I must say that I'm also curious about that.



I have them both (since Monday) and bought them for on-stage-monitoring purpose. Just having listened to some nice recordings (jazz, rock, singer songwriter, classical music) I prefer the AS10 a lot over the zs7. Listening to Joe Cocker with the AS10 literally made me happy. And smile . To me the sparkling trebles of the AS10 are a real joy. The zs7 is much more leveled and maybe the better choice for bass seeking listeners. But I probably will send back zs7 (bought it with Amazon prime).

But for me the question is: what sounds better, the cca c10 or the AS10?


----------



## Nimweth

SybilLance said:


> Have to run, so combined posts.
> 
> 
> You’re most welcome. The personal side of the listening experience together with the shared love and affection (and annoyance and exasperation) for the headphones and related audio products of this improbably successful Knowledge Zenith brand form a strong and interesting bond among us who frequent or are residents of this thread, that much I’ve perceived in the relatively short time I’ve been here, despite the differences of opinions present, and that by the way run the gamut from the very slight and tangential to contrarian to polar opposites.
> ...


Lol! Your top three reminded me of the 60s when the top five in the charts were occupied by the Beatles!


----------



## Sylmar

indie89 said:


> I have them both (since Monday) and bought them for on-stage-monitoring purpose. Just having listened to some nice recordings (jazz, rock, singer songwriter, classical music) I prefer the AS10 a lot over the zs7. Listening to Joe Cocker with the AS10 literally made me happy. And smile . To me the sparkling trebles of the AS10 are a real joy. The zs7 is much more leveled and maybe the better choice for bass seeking listeners. But I probably will send back zs7 (bought it with Amazon prime).
> 
> But for me the question is: what sounds better, the cca c10 or the AS10?



The AS10, though bigger,  looks also more comfortable to wear to me. I had a problem with my KZ5's formfactor as it's angular shape created hot spots in my ear when wearing them for a longer time. I manually heated and molded the shape into something more comfortable. I can see myself buying the AS10 though.


----------



## indie89

Sylmar said:


> The AS10, though bigger,  looks also more comfortable to wear to me. I had a problem with my KZ5's formfactor as it's angular shape created hot spots in my ear when wearing them for a longer time. I manually heated and molded the shape into something more comfortable. I can see myself buying the AS10 though.



Indeed zs7 are more comfortable to my ears! The smaller size and especially the inclined nozzle helps a lot! The metal housing doesn't make it less comfy!

But again: sound of as10 is beautiful!
Searching for a as10 sound with zs7 comfort .


----------



## Mellowship

Just got this yesterday from AE. Wondering if it had enough "juice" to power the ZS5v1. It has... 
It sounds beautiful with every pair of KZ I plug to, unlike FiiO x3ii, which is rather picky with some iems (impedance?).


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> The AS10, though bigger,  looks also more comfortable to wear to me. I had a problem with my KZ5's formfactor as it's angular shape created hot spots in my ear when wearing them for a longer time. I manually heated and molded the shape into something more comfortable. I can see myself buying the AS10 though.



You melted the ZS5 housing and remolded the shape? How did you do that without damaging the drivers?


----------



## TechnoidFR

For c16

I try on one music with as10 there is 10min. The as10 is slightly more bassy but clearly more slow. More balanced sound

One instrument need a very great speed to ear all. The as10 is not enough fast.

On metal music the clarity of the guitar is very obvious. Nothing to see with my collection. I didn't wait this level of speed, detail, clarity,. Soundstage


Go on !


----------



## Sylmar

I just (very clumsily) heated the little part of the shell that caused a hot spot in my ear. Just enough to get rid of the sharp edge but keep the shape of the ZS5 mostly intact. Nowadays with so many great Christmas IEMs I probably would choose another IEM.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mellowship said:


> Just got this yesterday from AE. Wondering if it had enough "juice" to power the ZS5v1. It has...
> It sounds beautiful with every pair of KZ I plug to, unlike FiiO x3ii, which is rather picky with some iems (impedance?).



What DAP is that?


----------



## Mellowship

mbwilson111 said:


> What DAP is that?


Benjie t6


----------



## eclein

Would you folks buy a high end tv from Massdrop?

I’m just in from outside, took out garbage, I’m in Bethlehem Pa. and its “zero”. I never remember feeling that cold ever in my lifetime.

Back on topic.....so Panda, Slater, mbWilson111, etc......anybody itching to get C16 ? Mine is waiting on small pot of gold supposedly coming overnite.
I’m totally into my C10s so its got a long way to go to become daily driver but I can’t pass up the price/driver no mortgage needed price myself.


----------



## mbwilson111

eclein said:


> Would you folks buy a high end tv from Massdrop?
> 
> I’m just in from outside, took out garbage, I’m in Bethlehem Pa. and its “zero”. I never remember feeling that cold ever in my lifetime.
> 
> ...



No, too much gear here already.


----------



## Slater (Jan 31, 2019)

eclein said:


> Would you folks buy a high end tv from Massdrop?
> 
> I’m just in from outside, took out garbage, I’m in Bethlehem Pa. and its “zero”. I never remember feeling that cold ever in my lifetime.
> 
> ...



Anymore these days, I have enough gear that I like. So I would only consider buying new gear after it has been out for at least a month, and has lots of consistent positive feedback from numerous users (including at least 1-2 people I trust or who I know have the same tastes as me).

I’m not saying that’s a good or bad way to do it; just the way I do it nowadays.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Anymore these days, I have enough gear that I like. So I would only consider buying new gear after it has been out for at least a month, and has lots of consistent positive feedback from numerous users (including at least 1-2 people I trust or who I know have the same tastes as me).
> 
> I’m not saying that’s a good or bad way to do it; just the way I do it nowadays.



I have enough good stuff to revisit that I should not buy anything else.


----------



## HungryPanda

So do I but this head-fi and we are all mad


----------



## kookaudio

Mellowship said:


> Just got this yesterday from AE. Wondering if it had enough "juice" to power the ZS5v1. It has...
> It sounds beautiful with every pair of KZ I plug to, unlike FiiO x3ii, which is rather picky with some iems (impedance?).


Yes, probably impedance.


----------



## Nimweth

Ah





SybilLance said:


> Have to run, so combined posts.
> 
> 
> You’re most welcome. The personal side of the listening experience together with the shared love and affection (and annoyance and exasperation) for the headphones and related audio products of this improbably successful Knowledge Zenith brand form a strong and interesting bond among us who frequent or are residents of this thread, that much I’ve perceived in the relatively short time I’ve been here, despite the differences of opinions present, and that by the way run the gamut from the very slight and tangential to contrarian to polar opposites.
> ...


Ah! So you bought three sets of C10s!


----------



## nraymond

Nimweth said:


> Ah! So you bought three sets of C10s!



They come in different colors for a reason, right?


----------



## mikesider

Does anybody knows where I could find 2-pin cables with 3-button remote? I prefer the 3-button one but it's hard to find. Thanks!


----------



## Slater

mikesider said:


> Does anybody knows where I could find 2-pin cables with 3-button remote? I prefer the 3-button one but it's hard to find. Thanks!



3 button for iOS, or 3 button remote for Android?

Because they use 2 different wiring standards, and not compatible between one another (without additional logic circuitry).

So even if you find a 3-button 2-pin cable, you’ll want to verify with the seller or manufacturer that it is 100% compatible with whatever phone standard you’re using.


----------



## SybilLance

Nimweth said:


> Lol! Your top three reminded me of the 60s when the top five in the charts were occupied by the Beatles!





Nimweth said:


> Ah
> Ah! So you bought three sets of C10s!





nraymond said:


> They come in different colors for a reason, right?



LOL! Would that it were so.

My C10 is the one and only. Actually No. 3 was when I first started to listen, which was right after it arrived. No. 2 was when I found the best eartip so far (wide-bore ball foams). No. 1 was when I used that tiny rubber band that my daughter sometimes uses for her ponytails, as chin strap.

If there is any flaw in the earpiece of the C10, for me it would be the thick stubby nozzle with its angle of projection, making it quite difficult to get that ideal fit and seal. You see, even with my foam tips, there would come a time when the C10 would lose its seal and the change in sound is immediately evident. This would happen when, after listening for some time, I'd talk, laugh or just open my mouth. Apparently any movement of the mimetic muscles and/or the jaws would result in a corresponding movement inside and around the opening of my ear canal which over time would be enough to break the seal. I would then wipe the eartips and the entrance of my ear canal with wet tissue, and after drying try to rotate the earpieces forward and a bit upwards to re-secure the seal. It's a bother.

So here’s a tip:

I suppose there are those among us who, because of our unique ears have a really hard time of finding the right eartip. Sometimes even when we do find the best one that works, we still have that nagging feeling that the fit is not optimum, because when we place just the slightest amount of pressure against the outer shell of the IEM we could hear the bass attain that fuller sound without affecting the other ranges.

In my case I'd very lightly push that top part of both earpieces next to the connectors downwards and recreate that effect, indicating that the seal achieved is not perfect and the IEM nozzle axis may not be aligned with my ear canal. A simple chin strap solves that issue. A chin strap introduces tension on the cable from that point which pulls on the connectors from behind the ears, that in turn ever so slightly tilts the earpieces backwards and somehow makes such seal and alignment possible and holds it for a long time. Of course at first it was uncomfortable especially when I have to turn my head to the side but I’ve adjusted and now don’t mind it as much. With the strap in place against my chin I have come to realize that as regards bass, the C10’s DD more than holds its own against the AS06’s BA in accuracy, resonance and presentation of texture and detail.


----------



## nxnje

Hello boys!

Is there someone who tried to paint his IEMs?
I mean.. i really wanna make a very little paint on my KZ ZS7 with a tiny brush, but dunno if it's safe and if it will keep visibile without using sandpaper


----------



## Zlivan

This cable with 3-button remote works on both systems:
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cHzoIVve

But I've seen plenty of others on Ali as well.


----------



## Nimweth

SybilLance said:


> LOL! Would that it were so.
> 
> My C10 is the one and only. Actually No. 3 was when I first started to listen, which was right after it arrived. No. 2 was when I found the best eartip so far (wide-bore ball foams). No. 1 was when I used that tiny rubber band that my daughter sometimes uses for her ponytails, as chin strap.
> 
> ...


Have you tried Spiral Dots? I find they are perfect with the C10, the short nozzles need larger, shorter tips. The seal is very good.


----------



## de51red (Feb 1, 2019)

Finally got to listen to C16

Out of the box is...wow the vocal is prominent here...but it doesn't stop there...

Presentation is accurate with a touch of fun. Detail is richer here, soundstage goes wide, detail is spot on. Bass has the right amount and has a great definition, mid is full, however electric guitar sound is more laid back on rock tracks due to more prominent vocal. High has sparkle without sibilance and got great extension.

Layering and instrument separation is top notch so far...

I can say with this earpiece I'm able to hear more details than other KZs I've listened to.

No complaints with fit and comfort, although it's heavier than say AS10.
Earpiece goes less deep than AS10 hence isolation not as good as AS10.

Overall sound character is rather flat or slightly V-shaped. I enjoy this more than any other KZs I've own.

I would say first thing you'd be drawn to C16 is its vocal.

Well worth the price when bought back then at US$95

In short, if could describe it in two words, it would be: Accurate & Alive.

Typing this while listening to C16...

Source: V30 + Poweramp Pro


----------



## Sylmar

A stupid question maybe but does the silver/purple ZSN sound different compared to the other two colors as the cable seems to differ?


----------



## TechnoidFR

de51red said:


> Finally got to listen to C16
> 
> Out of the box is...wow the vocal is prominent here...but it doesn't stop there...
> 
> ...



Completly agree. But v30 is not enough to have full potential


----------



## 1clearhead (Feb 1, 2019)

Sylmar said:


> A stupid question maybe but does the silver/purple ZSN sound different compared to the other two colors as the cable seems to differ?


I personally think they sound better and others that compared them think so, too. But, than again, that depends what type of details you're looking for and if it makes a slight difference for you. Though, the better option seems to be the light-copper thicker cable that comes with the silver/purple ZSN, in my opinion.


----------



## Sylmar

1clearhead said:


> I personally think they sound better and others that compared them think so, too. But, than again, that depends what type of details you're looking for and if it makes a slight difference for you. Though, the better option seems to be the light-copper thicker cable that comes with the silver/purple ZSN, in my opinion.


Interesting, thanks for the info!


----------



## BoZ29

nxnje said:


> Hello boys!
> 
> Is there someone who tried to paint his IEMs?
> I mean.. i really wanna make a very little paint on my KZ ZS7 with a tiny brush, but dunno if it's safe and if it will keep visibile without using sandpaper


You can paint your zs7 if you like, but why the use of sandpaper? For what?


----------



## indie89

de51red said:


> Finally got to listen to C16
> 
> Out of the box is...wow the vocal is prominent here...but it doesn't stop there...
> 
> ...


That's great, thanks for your impression!
As you seem to own the c16 as well as the as10, I'd like to know, if the c16 is smaller in size than the as10 (weight and isolation are not such big a topic for me)? If yes, I would indeed consider buying it. As mentioned, I love the as10 sound but it's just too big to fit comfortably in my ears...


----------



## TechnoidFR

indie89 said:


> That's great, thanks for your impression!
> As you seem to own the c16 as well as the as10, I'd like to know, if the c16 is smaller in size than the as10 (weight and isolation are not such big a topic for me)? If yes, I would indeed consider buying it. As mentioned, I love the as10 sound but it's just too big to fit comfortably in my ears...



The C16 is very better than as10.
More balamced, more speed, more details, better soundstage. 

Unfortunately it's the same housing...


----------



## Zerohour88

nxnje said:


> Hello boys!
> 
> Is there someone who tried to paint his IEMs?
> I mean.. i really wanna make a very little paint on my KZ ZS7 with a tiny brush, but dunno if it's safe and if it will keep visibile without using sandpaper





BoZ29 said:


> You can paint your zs7 if you like, but why the use of sandpaper? For what?



I assume you mean that you want to draw/paint a decal onto the ZS7, but are afraid that without using sandpaper to roughen the surface first, the paint won't stick onto the body?

you can always try drawing something and then spraying some clear coat on it (haven't done it on any IEM, but it works well enough for my motorcycle parts, plastic/metal or otherwise, to protect airbrushing and stickers)


----------



## de51red

TechnoidFR said:


> Completly agree. But v30 is not enough to have full potential



Too bad that's my only "capable" source haha...looking to hear opinion from others with different sources

@indie89 size wise they're almost identical, I would say the same (Sold off my AS10 so can't compare now), perhaps @TechnoidFR could explain more.

Main difference I notice is the nozzle on AS10 goes further into your ear, gives you better isolation. 

Personally I prefer C16's fit, but that's just me.


----------



## Leonccyiu

TechnoidFR said:


> Completly agree. But v30 is not enough to have full potential



Why isn't the v30 good enough to harness the full potential of the c16? It has a high quality ess DAC with a high quality amp.

A better DAC has higher quality filters for reconstruction of PCM especially cd resolution and below, but most modern DACs when fed source material of a high enough resolution say 24/192 sound very good.


----------



## nxnje

BoZ29 said:


> You can paint your zs7 if you like, but why the use of sandpaper? For what?



For scratching/scraping the shell so the new paint can "stick" on well.


----------



## nxnje

Zerohour88 said:


> I assume you mean that you want to draw/paint a decal onto the ZS7, but are afraid that without using sandpaper to roughen the surface first, the paint won't stick onto the body?
> 
> you can always try drawing something and then spraying some clear coat on it (haven't done it on any IEM, but it works well enough for my motorcycle parts, plastic/metal or otherwise, to protect airbrushing and stickers)



Ye that's why.
I'm worried about the rear zs7 vents that are on the faceplate. I'm really afraid of applying some spray on.


----------



## moisespr123

KZ ZS7 with the Hidizs DH1000 DAC/AMP


----------



## Leonccyiu

de51red said:


> Too bad that's my only "capable" source haha...looking to hear opinion from others with different sources
> 
> Main difference I notice is the nozzle on AS10 goes further into your ear, gives you better isolation.
> 
> Personally I prefer C16's fit, but that's just me.



Since your V30 has a very high quality DAC, for a better source you could try downloading the 24bit352.8khz samples from this website straight to your phone, or the MQA versions which are much smaller.

www.2l.no/hires/index.html?

I notice many here are judging sound quality based on 320kbps lossy compressed files and at best cd quality flac.

I believe these formats are inherently flawed because even for cd quality flac, a steep low pass filter is required for both sampling and reconstruction which introduces artifact's such as ringing which mess with your brains ability to localise elements hence a poorer soundstage and placement, a good iem cannot makeup information that wasn't there in the first place just like how a 4k TV isn't going to bring more resolution to DVD.


----------



## Zerohour88

nxnje said:


> Ye that's why.
> I'm worried about the rear zs7 vents that are on the faceplate. I'm really afraid of applying some spray on.



if the decals are going to be painted on the faceplate, you can remove only the faceplate and put some putty/play-doh on the vents (masking tape works, but the vents might be too small to properly apply tapes on), and then spraying it.


----------



## 1clearhead

Leonccyiu said:


> Since your V30 has a very high quality DAC, for a better source you could try downloading the 24bit352.8khz samples from this website straight to your phone, or the MQA versions which are much smaller.
> 
> www.2l.no/hires/index.html?
> 
> ...


Very informative!


----------



## Slater (Feb 1, 2019)

Sylmar said:


> A stupid question maybe but does the silver/purple ZSN sound different compared to the other two colors as the cable seems to differ?



As far as sound, some say yes and some say no.

The copper cable that comes with the purple/silver ZSN has a little lower impedance and is physically thicker/beefier between the 2 if that helps you at all. But the cable that comes with the other 2 ZSN colors is basically the same silver plated copper iron grey cable they’ve been selling as an upgrade cable anyways (except the different 2-pin ends of course).

So honestly you really can’t go wrong with either. I say just get whatever color you like.


----------



## Sylmar

Slater said:


> As far as sound, some say yes and some say no.
> 
> The copper cable that comes with the purple/silver ZSN has a little lower impedance and is physically thicker/beefier between the 2 if that helps you at all. But the cable that comes with the other 2 ZSN colors is basically the same silver plated copper iron grey cable they’ve been selling as an upgrade cable anyways (except the different 2-pin ends of course).
> 
> So honestly you really can’t go wrong with either. I say just get whatever color you like.


Very clear explanation. Thanks!


----------



## BoZ29

nxnje said:


> For scratching/scraping the shell so the new paint can "stick" on well.


Just clean the parts you want to paint, and mask (or remove) the parts you don’t want to paint. Modern paint will stick to the metal. My opinion, this blue metallic paint is great, don’t paint it, but that’s personal.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Leonccyiu said:


> Why isn't the v30 good enough to harness the full potential of the c16? It has a high quality ess DAC with a high quality amp.
> 
> A better DAC has higher quality filters for reconstruction of PCM especially cd resolution and below, but most modern DACs when fed source material of a high enough resolution say 24/192 sound very good.



V30 hasn't the most recent dac. And I had it, I had pro 6 plus and Meizu 16th which is better. Vivo Nex dual display have the best akm and dac of the mobile phone market. C16 is very better with the Vivo. He careful, these audio smart phone are less good than real dap...
I feel that my Meizu is not perfect and the Vivo that I just received is better, Clearly


----------



## Slater

BoZ29 said:


> Just clean the parts you want to paint, and mask (or remove) the parts you don’t want to paint. Modern paint will stick to the metal. My opinion, this blue metallic paint is great, don’t paint it, but that’s personal.



I’d do water transfer graphics (ie water transfer graphics, hydrographics).

It would be a minimal cost, as the shell back covers are super tiny. You’d want to remove the backs, the cosmetic screw, and the stainless mesh grille for the process. Then put that stuff back on when done.


----------



## SHAMuuu

Do they co


moisespr123 said:


> KZ ZS7 with the Hidizs DH1000 DAC/AMP



Do they come with a clear case like that  looks so cool


----------



## moisespr123

SHAMuuu said:


> Do they co
> 
> 
> Do they come with a clear case like that  looks so cool



Nope. I actually removed the covers of it due to charging circuit issues (Blue LED, slow charging, stops working at 400mAh of used battery aprox...). I have more pictures of the circuit here.

In terms of sound, I like it, as it improves the treble on the ZS7


----------



## CYoung234

mbwilson111 said:


> I like my ZS10.  Before I ordered mine, I had listened to several albums with my husband's pair.  I then wanted my own.. We all hear differently, have different sources etc.  I won't apologize for liking them



Same here. Still my favorite iems. I do have to shout out a thanks to Coil or whoever suggested removing the metal grills from the Tin Audio T2. Mine got a lot better with that mod. Good enough that I am now listening to them more seriously. Still not up to my ZS10's though...


----------



## mikesider

Slater said:


> 3 button for iOS, or 3 button remote for Android?
> 
> Because they use 2 different wiring standards, and not compatible between one another (without additional logic circuitry).
> 
> So even if you find a 3-button 2-pin cable, you’ll want to verify with the seller or manufacturer that it is 100% compatible with whatever phone standard you’re using.


I'm looking for an Android one. And thank you for the advice!


----------



## mikesider

Zlivan said:


> This cable with 3-button remote works on both systems:
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cHzoIVve
> 
> But I've seen plenty of others on Ali as well.


Thanks, I'll take a look at it!


----------



## moisespr123

There's a cable for that. I have it and works with Android and the Google USB-C to 3.5mm dongle, as well as my daps, altough the daps only work with the main button. But if I understand the banned sellers threads, I think I'm not allowed to mention that particular cable.


----------



## Le Stef

Just providing an update about AS10 and more generally BA IEMs: as previously mentioned on this thread, BAs are very fragile IEMs; I unfortunately experienced this myself: the right earpiece of my AS10s slipped from my hand as I was about to put it on and, while still attached to the cable, it fell on my shoe, not even hardly, and now the highs are gone... So sad, they were only 2 months old   I thought I would take a look if Slater or another tech-skilled member had already opened them to replace a BA driver; to my deepest regret, I just watched a video on Youtube from Techman, who tested a set of AS10 and had to use a Dremel to open them: these IEMs are so well glued together and full of glue inside, that any kind of repair is just impossible without completely destroying the shell. I'm so PISSED 
Nice pair of IEMs indeed, but really VERY fragile. Accidents can always happen and the slightest drop may results in irreversible damage. You may want to keep this in mind if you are hesitating between buying a pair of BA/Hybrid or Dynamic drivers IEMs.


----------



## Zerohour88

Le Stef said:


> Just providing an update about AS10 and more generally BA IEMs: as previously mentioned on this thread, BAs are very fragile IEMs; I unfortunately experienced this myself: the right earpiece of my AS10s slipped from my hand as I was about to put it on and, while still attached to the cable, it fell on my shoe, not even hardly, and now the highs are gone... So sad, they were only 2 months old   I thought I would take a look if Slater or another tech-skilled member had already opened them to replace a BA driver; to my deepest regret, I just watched a video on Youtube from Techman, who tested a set of AS10 and had to use a Dremel to open them: these IEMs are so well glued together and full of glue inside, that any kind of repair is just impossible without completely destroying the shell. I'm so PISSED
> Nice pair of IEMs indeed, but really VERY fragile. Accidents can always happen and the slightest drop may results in irreversible damage. You may want to keep this in mind if you are hesitating between buying a pair of BA/Hybrid or Dynamic drivers IEMs.



now imagine that with a pair of CA Andromeda, a full-BA IEM that's worth usd$1000


----------



## shockdoc

I'm not sure I agree with the assessment that BA's are inherently fragile. I've had a number of BA IEM's over the years that were just as durable as DD 'phones. I think it likely has more to do with manufacturing/quality control. Case in point. I've owned 3 pairs of Brainwavz S5 DD IEMs and the first TWO both got a loose driver on one side. The first pair actually stopped working on the side that became loose. I'm actually quite careful with my equipment and the only thing that was jarring at all was that I ran with them quite a few times. YMMV


----------



## DynamicEars

Zerohour88 said:


> now imagine that with a pair of CA Andromeda, a full-BA IEM that's worth usd$1000



Thats why we need good value chifi for our daily driver. keep those big boys safe at home.


----------



## moisespr123

Still impressed with the ZS7 quality. I think these sounds better via the 2.5mm balanced jack in the HiBy R3. I think the vocals are a bit more forward, better, and more clean than when I use them directly in the DH1000, which is more neutral in terms of sound. Today marks 2 weeks of owning the ZS7.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 1, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> now imagine that with a pair of CA Andromeda, a full-BA IEM that's worth usd$1000


Exactly my thoughts!
I love my AS10, and after realizing that they became my daily drivers, right away I got a second pair that sits in its package as a quite inexpensive insurance of my IEM happiness. 
Also not knowing about fragile nature of BAs, I knocked around my 1 More Triple quite a bit - still perfectly fine to me, continue to use them for old recordings, where AS10 reveals the limitations too eloquent.


----------



## Slater (Feb 1, 2019)

Le Stef said:


> Just providing an update about AS10 and more generally BA IEMs: as previously mentioned on this thread, BAs are very fragile IEMs; I unfortunately experienced this myself: the right earpiece of my AS10s slipped from my hand as I was about to put it on and, while still attached to the cable, it fell on my shoe, not even hardly, and now the highs are gone... So sad, they were only 2 months old   I thought I would take a look if Slater or another tech-skilled member had already opened them to replace a BA driver; to my deepest regret, I just watched a video on Youtube from Techman, who tested a set of AS10 and had to use a Dremel to open them: these IEMs are so well glued together and full of glue inside, that any kind of repair is just impossible without completely destroying the shell. I'm so PISSED
> Nice pair of IEMs indeed, but really VERY fragile. Accidents can always happen and the slightest drop may results in irreversible damage. You may want to keep this in mind if you are hesitating between buying a pair of BA/Hybrid or Dynamic drivers IEMs.



So sorry friend that really sucks 

Maybe the replacement should be a dynamic? There’s so many good ones to choose from, such as TinAudio T2 or T3, ibasso IT01 or IT01S, Kanas or Kanas Pro, etc.

Hopefully it will be more robust and problem free for you. That’s not to say dynamics are indestructible, because voice coils can and do break for example (especially if abused).


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> So sorry friend that really sucks
> 
> Maybe the replacement should be a dynamic? There’s so many good ones to choose from, such as TinAudio T2 or T3, ibasso IT01 or IT01S, Kanas or Kanas Pro, etc.
> 
> Hopefully it will be more robust and problem free for you. That’s not to say dynamics are indestructible, because voice coils can and do break for example (especially if abused).



Yeah worth waiting T3 will reveal on February 19, 2.5 weeks. really looking forward to these since T2 is well made. seems like T3 got more bass power. and i think will be go head to head with IT01 (im guessing the price will be around $60-80 as they chip in better cable)

If you got more bucks to spend, get IT01s or kanas pro but still, wait for T3 reviews


----------



## SybilLance (Feb 1, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> Have you tried Spiral Dots? I find they are perfect with the C10, the short nozzles need larger, shorter tips. The seal is very good.


No, not yet. I did mention that I'd like to try but the only known store here that carries them are verry difficult to query. Laconic replies and it's like we're talking in circles. I'm requesting a friend to order it from amazon for me. I take it the Spiral Dots sizes (outer diameter) are somewhat larger than the average tips, right? So I'd be looking for either M or MS.


----------



## canzz (Feb 1, 2019)

canzz said:


> After a long wait (because of the strike at Canada Post), I got my *AS10* last week. It sounded a bit weird right out of the box but it noticeably changed after a little burn-in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Got the ES4 in the mail last week. Not very impressed.






This is the second pair of KZ i purchased in 2 months. First pair was AS10 which felt like its lacking depth/body on lower frequencies and was somewhat neutral for my taste. I decided to give ES4 a try hoping that 1D+1BA configuration to have a warmer signature that would allow me to listen hard-hitting genres without any fatigue. It did the job.. ES4 has a nice warm signature with stronger sub-bass, however, AS10s superiority on the sound clarity, instrument separation is significant.

Once again I am laying eyes on the ZS7. Reviews/comparisons I've read felt like it might be just what I want. On the other hand, with the ZS7 purchase, i'd have spent over 100$ worth CHIFI earphone in 2 months. Should I be going for an upper tier? I wonder what 100$-200$ gets you these days and how would those compare to ZS7, arguably the best KZ (perhaps one of the best CHIFI) on market?
I would appreciate any suggestions


----------



## Slater (Feb 2, 2019)

canzz said:


> Got the ES4 in the mail last week. Not very impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you’re willing to spend $100, the ibasso IT01 is amazing.

It will have the clarity you like (_especially if you remove the nylon fabric portion of the nozzle filter_), with the punchy depth and body you’re craving in the low end. Build quality is great, and the cable is off the hook.

Nowadays, people are bonkers over the IT01*S* and Kanas Pro. But those are much more expensive, and I haven’t heard either so I can’t recommend them.

But regardless of the hyped flavor of the month, you’re still gonna have a hard time finding a better total package with the signature you’re describing for $100.


----------



## HerrXRDS (Feb 2, 2019)

canzz said:


> Got the ES4 in the mail last week. Not very impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would you rather have three Honda Civics or one Porsche 911?

Looking at my huge pile of under $100 IEMs that I've only used a few times and then forgot about them, I can't stop thinking I would rather have another high end IEM instead of them.


----------



## DynamicEars

canzz said:


> Got the ES4 in the mail last week. Not very impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like you prefer quality with hard hitting bass? Rather than balance?

Depend what on your purpose, do you like collecting many iems and keep rolling from one to another or changing iem, or stick to 1 but superior to all those cheaper iems.

If you want to get another sub $50 try T2 (warning this is balance - not suit everybodys taste especially someone who prefer fun iem with bass hits) , or wait T3 is around the corner, BQEYZ brand any type is equally good, or try that good reviewed ****.

But if you are looking for 1 superior chifi iem, set your budget under $250 for example, a lot mature sound than typical kz at this price range. Name it ibasso IT01s, DM6, Kanas (pro one more balance, if you like hard hitting bass, i guess regular kanas more suits you), tansio mirai tsmr3.
They are definitely different class above zs7.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 2, 2019)

I just got my ZS4 and I like it way better than the purple ZSN. I find the sound sig of the purple ZSN premature sounding like a newborn baby but the black ZSN is much better but not as exciting as the ZS4. I guess I prefer a more lively signature.

The fit on the Zs4 isn't that good. The Zs3 has the best fit but the Zs3 sounds so bad it's not even worth listening to.

With that being said... I have enough KZ's to be eventually considered a newbie expert on the brand. If you're looking for info on the As10, Atr, Ed7, Ed16, Es4, Ie7, Zsa, Zst, Zs3, Zs4, Zs10... hit me up.

I guess you can say I wasted a bit of money. Thanks to all you guys.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> now imagine that with a pair of CA Andromeda, a full-BA IEM that's worth usd$1000


I'll pass. Another reason why I don't buy expensive stuff.


----------



## kookaudio (Feb 2, 2019)

canzz said:


> Got the ES4 in the mail last week. Not very impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Spend 30usd for the Moondrop Crescent and forgot spending on other KZ stuff.
Or, I’m selling my brand new Moondrop Kanas...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

kadas152 said:


> Do you know if they changed anything from 2016 Pianos? I still like them but I like my ES4 better. Comparable price point...


No idea. Stick to KZ they'll most likely always be better than Tennmak.


----------



## Nimweth

SybilLance said:


> No, not yet. I did mention that I'd like to try but the only known store here that carries them are verry difficult to query. Laconic replies and it's like we're talking in circles. I'm requesting a friend to order it from amazon for me. I take it the Spiral Dots sizes (outer diameter) are somewhat larger than the average tips, right? So I'd be looking for either M or MS.


I only have the large size (L). I need large tips, especially on IEMs with short nozzles which my three favourites have. The Spiral Dots are larger than average.


----------



## CoiL

Slater said:


> If you’re willing to spend $100, the ibasso IT01 is amazing.
> 
> It will have the clarity you like (_especially if you remove the nylon fabric portion of the nozzle filter_), with the punchy depth and body you’re craving in the low end. Build quality is great, and the cable is off the hook.
> 
> ...


+1


DynamicEars said:


> But if you are looking for 1 superior chifi iem, set your budget under $250 for example, a lot mature sound than typical kz at this price range. Name it ibasso IT01s, DM6, Kanas (pro one more balance, if you like hard hitting bass, i guess regular kanas more suits you), tansio mirai tsmr3.
> They are definitely different class above zs7.


+1

...and there is tin t3 coming too


----------



## TechnoidFR

I love my C16
Litteraly my best iem at this moment. Need more opinion of yours, to be sure at this price, but clearly I think that is one the best option for less of 100€. 

I don't want to repeat me but on classic, metal, electro, chill, rap. On each style they are very impressive. Not too airy to keep impact ( M6 are too airy so impact for the battery is too light for some style ).

I found them just in all music that I listen, never too much on any frequency. The work on this iem is phenomenal. For me it's a must have !


----------



## puppyfi

canzz said:


> Got the ES4 in the mail last week. Not very impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With any IEMs, always good to experiment with different tips. ES4 is one such example. I didn't like it at first until I changed to wider bore tips, then it became one of my favourite. ZSN however, sounds good with its default tips, so I never bother to try another tips.


----------



## jant71

^Wait, with any IEM it's always good to try out other tips but you never tried other tips with the ZSN. How do you know ZSN doesn't sound even better with some other pair of tips??


----------



## kadas152

puppyfi said:


> With any IEMs, always good to experiment with different tips. ES4 is one such example. I didn't like it at first until I changed to wider bore tips, then it became one of my favourite. ZSN however, sounds good with its default tips, so I never bother to try another tips.


Can anyone tell me what bore diameter is considered as “wide bore”?
For example spinfits are considered as wide or not? What about starlines?


----------



## Zerohour88

HerrXRDS said:


> Looking at my huge pile of under $100 IEMs that I've only used a few times and then forgot about them, I can't stop thinking I would rather have another high end IEM instead of them.



its a matter of scale and experience. Imagine spending 600 bux on something like the CA Lyra II and then finding out its not really that great. Its all fine and dandy if you can easily drop another 600 bux to get another IEM, but I imagine most consumer don't (or they wouldn't be in a chi-fi thread in the first place). 

Absolutely, if  you just want a great IEM and already know what kind of sig you want and who you can trust, go for a higher-priced model and be done with it (for a while). Especially if you're already thinking about it. I just like playing with new toys and seeing how far chi-fi (not just KZ) can go. You ask me, CA Andromeda is still the one I'll recommend for TOTL IEM.


----------



## DynamicEars

kadas152 said:


> Can anyone tell me what bore diameter is considered as “wide bore”?
> For example spinfits are considered as wide or not? What about starlines?



4.5mm and up..
Nor spinfits and kz starlines are considered as wode bore. 

Spiral dots, tennmak whirlwind, symbio W are wide bore tips


----------



## Nimweth

kadas152 said:


> Can anyone tell me what bore diameter is considered as “wide bore”?
> For example spinfits are considered as wide or not? What about starlines?


A good example of a wide bore tip would be the JVC Spiral Dots. KZ Starline tips have an average bore diameter.


----------



## puppyfi

kadas152 said:


> Can anyone tell me what bore diameter is considered as “wide bore”?
> For example spinfits are considered as wide or not? What about starlines?




 

You just got to keep trying with different tips to see how it sound.
For example, the 2 on the left are considered wide.
I'm currently using the transparent medium wide tip from my old collection from Ultimate Ears.
I had another different brand of wide silicone tips that sounded even better (can't remember the brand since all my tips were mixed up when stored), but unfortunately, they were a little bit loose and got lost eventually.


----------



## puppyfi

jant71 said:


> ^Wait, with any IEM it's always good to try out other tips but you never tried other tips with the ZSN. How do you know ZSN doesn't sound even better with some other pair of tips??



Lol... you're right...in addition, the never ending experiment of changing copper to silver cables or DAPs pairing setup, etc etc...

But I'm already no longer going for the ultimate.
As long as the pairing sounds good, I'll be fine and will just focus on enjoying my collection of music.


----------



## eclein

My C16s arrived-notes so far:

C16 fit is excellent for me-was my biggest worry

Its like they expoded a bomb inside a C10 and everything suddenly became immense...lots of detail and it keeps widening and deepening.

These sound like already played in....pre burnt in ....pure

Plenty of bass with zero muddy ness (?) zero sibilance........just vast clear non congested sound.....
Wow


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

TechnoidFR said:


> V30 hasn't the most recent dac. And I had it, I had pro 6 plus and Meizu 16th which is better. Vivo Nex dual display have the best akm and dac of the mobile phone market. C16 is very better with the Vivo. He careful, these audio smart phone are less good than real dap...
> I feel that my Meizu is not perfect and the Vivo that I just received is better, Clearly



Smartphones can be transformed into a capable audio source. Requires some fiddling with kernel and root access.


----------



## eclein

My quick listen turned into an hour while watching my favorite soccer team - Dortmund!!

I’m not believing how much I enjoyed my first listen, the C16s were a total indulgence for my curiosity, I’ve never heard a eight BA a side iem and got a great opportunity to grab these. I’m simply stunned and seriously amazed at this sound.
It probably sounds silly but I’m smiling ear to ear, if the opportunity arises I’m buying backups for these.
I’ll keep listening and update accordingly but right now I got a new #1 iem here. Everybody hears differently but for me these are the best I’ve ever heard and I didn’t have to sell a home to get them- I’m having a great day!


----------



## Le Stef

Slater said:


> So sorry friend that really sucks
> 
> Maybe the replacement should be a dynamic? There’s so many good ones to choose from, such as TinAudio T2 or T3, ibasso IT01 or IT01S, Kanas or Kanas Pro, etc.
> 
> Hopefully it will be more robust and problem free for you. That’s not to say dynamics are indestructible, because voice coils can and do break for example (especially if abused).


Thanks, buddy. It's a sad loss; the viewing will take place tomorrow in Toronto East, for those who were close to them.  They will be missed and surely remembered...


----------



## Le Stef

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got my ZS4 and I like it way better than the purple ZSN. I find the sound sig of the purple ZSN premature sounding like a newborn baby but the black ZSN is much better but not as exciting as the ZS4. I guess I prefer a more lively signature.
> 
> The fit on the Zs4 isn't that good. The Zs3 has the best fit but the Zs3 sounds so bad it's not even worth listening to.
> 
> ...


Hi there; should you buy the zs7, please let us know your impression vs AS10: some say the ZS7 are better, others say it's the AS10; maybe you can compare them to other KZs you own (ZS4 or ZSR?). Thanks!


----------



## Slater

Le Stef said:


> Hi there; should you buy the zs7, please let us know your impression vs AS10: some say the ZS7 are better, others say it's the AS10; maybe you can compare them to other KZs you own (ZS4 or ZSR?). Thanks!



What kind of sound signature do you want?


----------



## paulindss

My take on AS06: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-as06-in-ear-monitor.23391/reviews#review-21532

It has comparision with BQEYZ kb1 and tin audio t2 vent modded.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Le Stef said:


> Hi there; should you buy the zs7, please let us know your impression vs AS10: some say the ZS7 are better, others say it's the AS10; maybe you can compare them to other KZs you own (ZS4 or ZSR?). Thanks!


You may want to check CCA C10.
Under $30, its 4 BA give similar resolution to AS10, and DD is more fun.
I personally still prefer AS10 to listen to strings in classics, but for the value and universality, CCA C10 is easily the winner.


----------



## Le Stef

Slater said:


> What kind of sound signature do you want?


I prefer warmer sound signatures rather than bright or "analytical" sound, but I dont like the bumming of low mids; I love a big punch in the lower bass, and clear but not fatiguing highs (like, clear sound with a subwoofer added  ) I know, hard to find in the sub $100 category.  The AS10 sound good in my opinion, but I wouldn't mind more punch in the bass.  I heard the Kanas Pro may be the ones I should be looking at, possibly also the Ibasso IT01 (I know, you're a bog fan of it!), but the ZS7 are way cheaper and apparently, they seem pretty good.  I don't think the modded Tin Audio T2 would satisfy me due to the lack of deep and strong bass.  What is the best IEM you would recommend for up to $50?  BTW, my source is Cayin N3 or Sony A45, (sometimes paired with Fioo amp A3).


----------



## Le Stef

PhonoPhi said:


> You may want to check CCA C10.
> Under $30, its 4 BA give similar resolution to AS10, and DD is more fun.
> I personally still prefer AS10 to listen to strings in classics, but for the value and universality, CCA C10 is easily the winner.


Thank you PhonoPhi  Apparently this is another really good IEM, but given the high number of BAs in it, I have doubts about its reliability... That may still be an option given the price, though (just to buy another pair if it brakes, or just a second one as backup)


----------



## CoiL (Feb 2, 2019)

eclein said:


> My C16s arrived-notes so far:
> 
> C16 fit is excellent for me-was my biggest worry
> 
> ...





eclein said:


> My quick listen turned into an hour while watching my favorite soccer team - Dortmund!!
> 
> I’m not believing how much I enjoyed my first listen, the C16s were a total indulgence for my curiosity, I’ve never heard a eight BA a side iem and got a great opportunity to grab these. I’m simply stunned and seriously amazed at this sound.
> It probably sounds silly but I’m smiling ear to ear, if the opportunity arises I’m buying backups for these.
> I’ll keep listening and update accordingly but right now I got a new #1 iem here. Everybody hears differently but for me these are the best I’ve ever heard and I didn’t have to sell a home to get them- I’m having a great day!


What with would You compare it to?
We need FR graphs ASAP to know if hype is justified, just saying as "new toy effect" can do its work 


Le Stef said:


> I prefer warmer sound signatures rather than bright or "analytical" sound, but I dont like the bumming of low mids; I love a big punch in the lower bass, and clear but not fatiguing highs (like, clear sound with a subwoofer added  ) I know, hard to find in the sub $100 category.  The AS10 sound good in my opinion, but I wouldn't mind more punch in the bass.  I heard the Kanas Pro may be the ones I should be looking at, possibly also the Ibasso IT01 (I know, you're a bog fan of it!), but the ZS7 are way cheaper and apparently, they seem pretty good.  I don't think the modded Tin Audio T2 would satisfy me due to the lack of deep and strong bass.  What is the best IEM you would recommend for up to $50?  BTW, my source is Cayin N3 or Sony A45, (sometimes paired with Fioo amp A3).


My recommendation - get either iBasso IT01 or regular Kanas. They shouldn`t dissapoint You.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Le Stef said:


> Thank you PhonoPhi  Apparently this is another really good IEM, but given the high number of BAs in it, I have doubts about its reliability... That may still be an option given the price, though (just to buy another pair if it brakes, or just a second one as backup)



ZS7 is exact same tho. 4+1 per side. 

Want some mad crazy thumping bass with rumbly sub bass with clean mids and a sparkly treble? NICE HCK EP10. Will set you back about $15. My mind is still blown at it. A single 11mm PET driver that can withstand +20db bass boost and 60% volume from my Cayin C5 in High Gain(800mw=800mw), before distortion. Sounds good at reg listening volumes too.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Le Stef said:


> Thank you PhonoPhi  Apparently this is another really good IEM, but given the high number of BAs in it, I have doubts about its reliability... That may still be an option given the price, though (just to buy another pair if it brakes, or just a second one as backup)


CCA 10 is a close relative of KZ ZS7 through CCA-KZ relationship. I do not have ZS7 (it was much more expensive to get in Canada), a general opinion is CCA10 is a bit warmer than ZS7.
With any IEM something can go wrong - cable connection problems, housing damage, etc. - one can take any options to prepare or to choose to wait until it happens.


----------



## eclein (Feb 2, 2019)

Compared to C10 with more detail and relaxed sound........drum riffs that are blurry usually are clear and amazing as some of the stuff guys actually pulled off. Even some of my old stuff freaked me out.....this iems drivers are so fast its wild. Relaxed and fast....I guess the shear number eases up processing the riffs or other fast complicated stuff...lasek for your ears maybe. Its fun to check wild stuff you’ve heard over the years and hear how good it really is, thats my take being a drummer since 10 years of age......

Graphs? “I got no stinkin badges(graphs...lol”)

New toy effect is valid point so I’ve been on and off listening all day. Neighbor and I went out etc. It still blows my mind but I hear ya.....how would I get all that from a graph? Seriously I’m curious not being nasty.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm) (Feb 2, 2019)

Le Stef said:


> Hi there; should you buy the zs7, please let us know your impression vs AS10: some say the ZS7 are better, others say it's the AS10; maybe you can compare them to other KZs you own (ZS4 or ZSR?). Thanks!



I received the AS10, C10 and ZS7 this week. Have been using them with the basic silver KZ balanced cables on my FiiO X7 MK II.

These are my first impressions after using them for a few days, they could change after using them for a longer period of time.

The ZS7 and AS10 should be pretty similar sounding, with the same BA setup, just a DD driver for bass and a different housing, but they don't at all. Maybe the ZS7 sounds more like the BA10, but I haven't heard that one.

The ZS7 is exciting sounding. It has a very nice (at times holophonic) soundstage and good instrument separation, it sprinkles details all around you. The treble is clear and it is a bit forward sounding. The bass is powerful and deep and has a very good slam to it, a bit surprising for a dynamic driver. It is not forgiving; bad recordings will sound unpleasantly bad. However, good recordings that were unremarkable before now suddenly grab your attention. It is not neutral or flat sounding, but full and a bit warm in a very pleasant way. I find myself wondering what certain songs will sound like on the ZS7. It is especially good for electronic music, percussion and music with strong bass.
Treble might not be the most accurate, though that could still improve with more use, its other traits more than make up for that, I am surprised and impressed by it. I personally like the metal industrial looking design a lot, it is smaller than I expected and very comfortable to wear. Build quality feels great. Haven't moved the crossover boards out of the way yet.

The AS10 grabs you and says, okay, seriously now, let me give you a bit more neutral representation of your music. It has stronger mids than the ZS7, but treble is more recessed, It doesn't seem to be especially accurate or smooth sounding, slightly harsh at times, no sibilance though. It does sound a bit more dark, which I find surprising for a five BA driver earphone. It is more neutral and flat sounding than the ZS7, but also more congested sounding. The soundstage is smaller, with less instrument separation. Bass is less powerful, but tight and punchy with a nice texture, but it lacks the slam and sub bass of the ZS7. Percussion sounds nicely sharp. The sound of the AS10 is less in your face than the ZS7, it should be less fatiguing, but is also less exciting. Wind noise is quite bad when riding a bike with them, haven't tried with the others yet. Build quality seems good, they are light, not as solid and premium feeling as the ZS7 and C10 with their metal parts.

The C10 is a favorite on Head-Fi. It is a very polite sounding earphone, very smooth, but also a bit unexciting. It has a nice soundstage that can sound holophonic at times, though instrument separation is not that great. Bass can be strong and textured if needed, but it lacks the slam and tightness of the ZS7. It is refined and relaxing sounding, with some nicely rendered textures, which can grab you at times. Treble is forgiving, it is not very detailed or accurate sounding, it doesn't sparkle like the ZS7. Mids are pretty recessed, voices can get drowned a bit by instruments. Mine has very annoying driver flex in the right phone while inserting, it even made my ear ring. It needs a bit more power than the AS10 and ZS7. Build quality is great.

All in all, the ZS7 is the big suprise to me right now. I was expecting to like the AS10 the most, because I love BA sound and I like an accurate neutral sound (loved my Etymotic ER4 and have really been enjoying my Phonaks). I thought the only difference would be the bass. I'm currently a bit underwhelmed by the C10s, after all the hype here. My wife and a colleague have listened to them and were unimpressed. I hope they will still improve with time.

I ordered the **** as well on the 21st of Januari at AliExpress, but the seller still hasn't sent them. I suppose it will take another week. If it wasn't for the good price I got, I would have cancelled and ordered somewhere else. I am not impressed with their service. VS Audio Store, NiceHCK, MissAudio and the official KZ store have been great though.

Suffering from GAS for the C16 now though, sounds like it improves the parts of the AS10 that are lacking. Though I wonder if it could rival the spacious sound of the ZS7 and its bass slam.


----------



## Slater

Le Stef said:


> I prefer warmer sound signatures rather than bright or "analytical" sound, but I dont like the bumming of low mids; I love a big punch in the lower bass, and clear but not fatiguing highs (like, clear sound with a subwoofer added  ) I know, hard to find in the sub $100 category.  The AS10 sound good in my opinion, but I wouldn't mind more punch in the bass.  I heard the Kanas Pro may be the ones I should be looking at, possibly also the Ibasso IT01 (I know, you're a bog fan of it!), but the ZS7 are way cheaper and apparently, they seem pretty good.  I don't think the modded Tin Audio T2 would satisfy me due to the lack of deep and strong bass.  What is the best IEM you would recommend for up to $50?  BTW, my source is Cayin N3 or Sony A45, (sometimes paired with Fioo amp A3).



Well, keep in mind I’ve never heard many of the hyped $50ish IEMs - BA10, AS10, AS06, all the new CCA models.

But you really are describing the IT01 to a T. It’s head and shoulders above any KZ I’ve ever heard, including the ZS7. And I’m a KZ fan, so it’s not like I’m biased that anything KZ is awesome.

Also, I didn’t like the bass mod to the T2. It made the bass bloated, it bleeds into the midrange, and causes an unbearable amount of driver flex. The T3 is supposed to have more low end, so it could be the answer we’ve all been asking for since the T2 came out.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Want some mad crazy thumping bass with rumbly sub bass with clean mids and a sparkly treble? NICE HCK EP10. Will set you back about $15. My mind is still blown at it. A single 11mm PET driver that can withstand +20db bass boost and 60% volume from my Cayin C5 in High Gain(800mw=800mw), before distortion. Sounds good at reg listening volumes too.



Good point. I keep forgetting about EP10.

It’s too bad it doesn’t get talked about much. There’s just so many different options nowadays; it’s mind boggling.

Anyways, you’re right the EP10 would meet the signature he’s describing. It’s built like an army tank, comfortable to wear, nice cable, included carry case.

My only complaint is the short nozzles, which wouldn’t give me a deep enough seal and a secure enzough fit. But that is an individual thing that may not affect most people. Nothing some Spinfits, along with keyboard orings couldn’t fix. Now it’s perfect.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Good point. I keep forgetting about EP10.
> 
> It’s too bad it doesn’t get talked about much. There’s just so many different options nowadays; it’s mind boggling.
> 
> ...


Yea the short nozzles suck. I went up a size and ended up using Spiral Dots L on them. They still have issues tho. What size Spinfits are your recommendation? I have been thinking about them as they have a longer nozzle then most tips. They might work well


----------



## Slater (Feb 2, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea the short nozzles suck. I went up a size and ended up using Spiral Dots L on them. They still have issues tho. What size Spinfits are your recommendation? I have been thinking about them as they have a longer nozzle then most tips. They might work well



The long eartip core is exactly why the Spinfits work best on IEMs with really short nozzles. It has the longest core I’ve found on a readily available eartip. I found another tip with an even longer core, but they were obscure and hard to find so I gave up.

I tried double and triple flange tips (which are long too), but I wasn’t a fan of the fit or the sound.

The Spinfits I went with were the CP100. They have a red core (which the red might indicate the M size ).

I got them during 11.11 (from NiceHCK I believe). They were $4.xx a pair ($4.20 or $4.40 I don’t remember exactly).

I only save them as last resort tips, in cases just like the EP10. Otherwise, Starlines and Auvios are almost always my go to eartip.


----------



## BoZ29

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I received the AS10, C10 and ZS7 this week. Have been using them with the basic silver KZ balanced cables on my FiiO X7 MK II.
> 
> These are my first impressions after using them for a few days, they could change after using them for a longer period of time.
> 
> ...


Very detailed and interesting overview of the last popular iems in town. Thanks fellow Dutchman! After the zs6 an ed16 I hoped for a real good monitor without overwhelming treble. The zs7 is just what I hoped for. Although my zs6 is almost as good after my latest mods.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Feb 2, 2019)

Slater said:


> The long eartip core is exactly why the Spinfits work best on IEMs with really short nozzles. It has the longest core I’ve found on a readily available eartip. I found another tip with an even longer core, but they were obscure and hard to find so I gave up.
> 
> I tried double and triple flange tips (which are long too), but I wasn’t a fan of the fit or the sound.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I will order those and try them. I have yet to use spinfits. Always so expensive and I personally go Sony Hybrid for small bore, and Spiral Dots for wide bore. I do like Auvios thanks to you and Radio Shack having them super cheap, so those are used frequently too.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Thanks. I will order those and try them. I have yet to use spinfits. Always so expensive and I personally go Sony Hybrid for small bore, and Spiral Dots for wide bore. I do like Auvios thanks to you and Radio Shack having them super cheap, so those are used frequently too.



Yes, the Spinfits are expensive. That’s why I only own 2 pairs, use them only as a last resort, and waited until they were on sale to order them.

That’s also why the Rosewill EX500 is a good deal right now, as it comes with a full set of Spinfits


----------



## stryed

Slater said:


> Good point. I keep forgetting about EP10.
> 
> It’s too bad it doesn’t get talked about much. There’s just so many different options nowadays; it’s mind boggling.
> 
> ...



The EP10 is pretty neat for the price and it does have the same tuning as the IT01, but the detail, texture in bass and clarity in the treble is lacking.With KZ stock black tips, they fit securely and are comfortable.
In no area does it beat the IT01, unlike the KZ7 I believe as it probably has better soundstage if it's anything like the KZ5. 
I don't think anyone can be disappointed by the EP10 for its price.


----------



## Slater

BoZ29 said:


> Very detailed and interesting overview of the last popular iems in town. Thanks fellow Dutchman! After the zs6 an ed16 I hoped for a real good monitor without overwhelming treble. The zs7 is just what I hoped for. Although my zs6 is almost as good after my latest mods.



I’m so glad KZ listened to the ZS6 complaints and fixed all of them:

1. More low end
2. Better midrange
3. Eliminate piercing treble
4. Eliminate sibilance
5. Nozzle lip to keep tips on

They nailed it. I have modded ZS6 too, and I do love them but the ZS7 is definitely superior.


----------



## 1clearhead

PhonoPhi said:


> You may want to check CCA C10.
> Under $30, its 4 BA give similar resolution to AS10, and DD is more fun.
> I personally still prefer AS10 to listen to strings in classics, but for the value and universality, CCA C10 is easily the winner.


+1 ...Definitely, CCA C10


----------



## chi-fi mel

stryed said:


> The EP10 is pretty neat for the price and it does have the same tuning as the IT01, but the detail, texture in bass and clarity in the treble is lacking.With KZ stock black tips, they fit securely and are comfortable.
> In no area does it beat the IT01, unlike the KZ7 I believe as it probably has better soundstage if it's anything like the KZ5.
> I don't think anyone can be disappointed by the EP10 for its price.


The EP10 is for bassheads only. Most of the KZ's are superior and are basshead friendly better choices. I didn't find that the spinfits helped.


----------



## 1clearhead (Feb 3, 2019)

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I received the AS10, C10 and ZS7 this week. Have been using them with the basic silver KZ balanced cables on my FiiO X7 MK II.
> 
> These are my first impressions after using them for a few days, they could change after using them for a longer period of time.
> 
> ...


The CCA C10 definitely improves with time!...Don't give up on them!  

Listening to them for the first few hours will definitely come off as sounding boring as this is my same experience. But, break them in for at least two weeks or so, then you'll see why they are as good as many say they are. The BA armatures sounds cleaner and clearer, the MID's opens up and gets livelier, and bass gets bunchier with plenty of texture. Remind you, my reference is with the default tips that came installed on them.


Hope this helps...


-Clear


----------



## canzz

Slater said:


> If you’re willing to spend $100, the ibasso IT01 is amazing.
> 
> It will have the clarity you like (_especially if you remove the nylon fabric portion of the nozzle filter_), with the punchy depth and body you’re craving in the low end. Build quality is great, and the cable is off the hook.
> 
> ...



Can I expect a significant improvement with IT0 over the KZs I mentioned?



DynamicEars said:


> Looks like you prefer quality with hard hitting bass? Rather than balance?
> 
> Depend what on your purpose, do you like collecting many iems and keep rolling from one to another or changing iem, or stick to 1 but superior to all those cheaper iems.
> 
> ...



Only Kanas I see is the pro version. Can you share a link?

Below $250 mark, which earphone would you recommend for the sound signature I described? I would be willing to spend that much for a great long-lasting pair.


----------



## SybilLance (Feb 3, 2019)

Hola everyone! I'm strictly hit and run these days, so my apologies for the combined posts.



TechnoidFR said:


> Completly agree. But v30 is not enough to have full potential





de51red said:


> Too bad that's my only "capable" source haha...looking to hear opinion from others with different sources





TechnoidFR said:


> V30 hasn't the most recent dac. And I had it, I had pro 6 plus and Meizu 16th which is better. Vivo Nex dual display have the best akm and dac of the mobile phone market. C16 is very better with the Vivo. He careful, these audio smart phone are less good than real dap...
> 
> I feel that my Meizu is not perfect and the Vivo that I just received is better, Clearly



Don't sell your LG V30 Plus short. It's one of the best sources that you can have for your C16.

Here's androidauthority on its audio capabilities:

https://www.androidauthority.com/lg-v30-audio-797447/

About 5 months ago amirm over at audiosciencereview reviewed and measured the audio performance of the V30+'s more recent incarnation, the G7 ThinQ which uses the same ESS Technology ES9218P Quad DAC chipset as the V30+. He was suitably impressed and recommended it:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-measurement-of-lg-g7-thinq-smartphone.4468/

TechnoidFR may be right, though. The only new phone that might stand toe-to-toe with, or perhaps even better LG's quad dac audio implementaton is the Vivo NEX S with the Cirrus Logic CS43199 DAC chipset (the regular Vivo NEX A has the AKM AK4376 DAC chipset):

http://eng.soomal.com/edoc/10100000237.htm

On the other hand, perhaps when you were listening you didn’t ensure that the LG V30+’s high-impedance or “HI-Fi Quad Dac mode” was enabled..? This might help (works on V30+):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lg-v20-sound-quality.816024/page-175#post-13534071

Anyway, despite inherent Android limitations, and its own headphone impedance-power output quirks, your LG V30+ is one heck of a truly great-sounding HI-Fi audio source for your C16 or for any headphone.



canzz said:


> Got the ES4 in the mail last week. Not very impressed.
> 
> Once again I am laying eyes on the ZS7. Reviews/comparisons I've read felt like it might be just what I want. On the other hand, with the ZS7 purchase, i'd have spent over 100$ worth CHIFI earphone in 2 months. Should I be going for an upper tier? I wonder what 100$-200$ gets you these days and how would those compare to ZS7, arguably the best KZ (perhaps one of the best CHIFI) on market?
> I would appreciate any suggestions



Yes, the KZ ZS7 is what you want. You cannot resist it. It's calling to you, in your sleep, in your daydreams... telling you Get Me! And thus you're bound to KZ and the KZ Impressions thread. 

Well, at least for the next couple of months.

But if you're in the US and would love an upgrade and a bargain, the Simgot EN700 Pro is currently selling for only $105.99 at Amazon. It used to be $145.99 and is listed in AliExpress for that amount. Also available at Musicteck for $119 (before $149.99). My husband's favorite for its unique aesthetics, outstanding build quality and balanced, detailed yet smooth listen-for-hours sound, despite the fact that his $199 Simgot EM3 is just better in almost every other department. Rated 4.5-5 Stars at its $145.99 listed price by many of our favorite (that word again) reviewers, including KZ fan B9Scrambler. Here's a 5-star review:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/simgot-en700-pro.22692/reviews?page=2#review-19294



kadas152 said:


> Can anyone tell me what bore diameter is considered as “wide bore”?
> 
> For example spinfits are considered as wide or not? What about starlines?





DynamicEars said:


> 4.5mm and up..
> 
> Nor spinfits and kz starlines are considered as wode bore.
> 
> Spiral dots, tennmak whirlwind, symbio W are wide bore tips





Nimweth said:


> A good example of a wide bore tip would be the JVC Spiral Dots. KZ Starline tips have an average bore diameter.





puppyfi said:


> You just got to keep trying with different tips to see how it sound.
> 
> For example, the 2 on the left are considered wide.
> 
> ...



Without reaching for calipers or knowing any brand names, here's a convenient rule of thumb: any ear tip whose opening is just slightly smaller or at least equal to the IEM nozzle opening is wide-bore; any ear tip whose opening is about the same or smaller than approximately half the nozzle opening is small-bore; and of course any ear tip whose opening falls in-between would be medium-bore. 



Le Stef said:


> Hi there; should you buy the zs7, please let us know your impression vs AS10: some say the ZS7 are better, others say it's the AS10; maybe you can compare them to other KZs you own (ZS4 or ZSR?). Thanks!





Le Stef said:


> I prefer warmer sound signatures rather than bright or "analytical" sound, but I dont like the bumming of low mids; I love a big punch in the lower bass, and clear but not fatiguing highs (like, clear sound with a subwoofer added ) I know, hard to find in the sub $100 category.  The AS10 sound good in my opinion, but I wouldn't mind more punch in the bass.  I heard the Kanas Pro may be the ones I should be looking at, possibly also the Ibasso IT01 (I know, you're a bog fan of it!), but the ZS7 are way cheaper and apparently, they seem pretty good.  I don't think the modded Tin Audio T2 would satisfy me due to the lack of deep and strong bass.  What is the best IEM you would recommend for up to $50?  BTW, my source is Cayin N3 or Sony A45, (sometimes paired with Fioo amp A3).





PhonoPhi said:


> You may want to check CCA C10.
> 
> Under $30, its 4 BA give similar resolution to AS10, and DD is more fun.
> 
> I personally still prefer AS10 to listen to strings in classics, but for the value and universality, CCA C10 is easily the winner.





Le Stef said:


> Thank you PhonoPhi Apparently this is another really good IEM, but given the high number of BAs in it, I have doubts about its reliability... That may still be an option given the price, though (just to buy another pair if it brakes, or just a second one as backup)





PhonoPhi said:


> CCA 10 is a close relative of KZ ZS7 through CCA-KZ relationship. I do not have ZS7 (it was much more expensive to get in Canada), a general opinion is CCA10 is a bit warmer than ZS7.
> 
> With any IEM something can go wrong - cable connection problems, housing damage, etc. - one can take any options to prepare or to choose to wait until it happens.





1clearhead said:


> +1 ...Definitely, CCA C10



+2. The CCA C10 is a balanced, sub-$30 hybrid that is _the_ serious upgrade to the ZSN. It would pair ideally with the slightly warm Cayin N3. I should know because it’s my pairing and I’m happy as a kid in a candy store. And never you mind this “BAs are fragile” bit. Unless you intentionally drop them or use them for bolas practice they’d be fine.


----------



## indie89

eclein said:


> My quick listen turned into an hour while watching my favorite soccer team - Dortmund!!
> 
> I’m not believing how much I enjoyed my first listen, the C16s were a total indulgence for my curiosity, I’ve never heard a eight BA a side iem and got a great opportunity to grab these. I’m simply stunned and seriously amazed at this sound.
> It probably sounds silly but I’m smiling ear to ear, if the opportunity arises I’m buying backups for these.
> I’ll keep listening and update accordingly but right now I got a new #1 iem here. Everybody hears differently but for me these are the best I’ve ever heard and I didn’t have to sell a home to get them- I’m having a great day!


As you mentioned Dortmund, I guess you might be from Germany, too? I'm really interested in the c16 but am unsure where to buy it in respect of German "Zoll". Where did you get yours and which shop / shipment method could you recommend?


----------



## eclein

American here, not Germany sorry. I’m a Bundesliga fan and enjoy soccer.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

BoZ29 said:


> Very detailed and interesting overview of the last popular iems in town. Thanks fellow Dutchman! After the zs6 an ed16 I hoped for a real good monitor without overwhelming treble. The zs7 is just what I hoped for. Although my zs6 is almost as good after my latest mods.



Thank you! The ZS7 were a big surprise, I wasn't expecting them to sound so pleasantly different from the other ones. It is indeed not too bright, because I find too bright treble to be very unpleasant.



1clearhead said:


> The CCA C10 definitely improves with time!...Don't give up on them!
> 
> Listening to them for the first few hours will definitely come off as sounding boring as this is my same experience. But, break them in for at least two weeks or so, then you'll see why they are as good as many say they are. The BA armatures sounds cleaner and clearer, the MID's opens up and gets livelier, and bass gets bunchier with plenty of texture. Remind you, my reference is with the default tips that came installed on them.
> 
> Hope this helps...



I most definitely won't give up on them, all the Head-Fi hype can't be for nothing. The changes you mention are just what they need to improve, thanks. Forgot to say that I'm using spiral dots on all of them. The included tips increase and tighten the bass a bit, but muffle the treble.


----------



## schom

indie89 said:


> As you mentioned Dortmund, I guess you might be from Germany, too? I'm really interested in the c16 but am unsure where to buy it in respect of German "Zoll". Where did you get yours and which shop / shipment method could you recommend?


hello iam from Aachen. my personel experience is, that aliexpress is still the best. i bought from several chinese sites. all of them bring me into "zoll-trouble".  i ordered 30 items with three years from aliexpress. maximum transit time to germany was 6 weeks. average time is 4 weeks. from 30 items i received at last 28 items. even if you buy from ebay you get transit problems or costum troule.  Meine Empfehlung: Aliexpress!!!

Schönen Tag noch!


----------



## TechnoidFR

SybilLance said:


> Hola everyone! I'm strictly hit and run these days, so my apologies for the combined posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## danny93

What's the best option listening to the ZSNs via a USB c port only phone? (Mate 20 PRO) 

USB replacement cable https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009148295640.html

Stock Huawei USB to 3.5mm converter 

Buy a cheap DAC (Least favoured option due to bulk/convenience) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyrus-Soun...dpPl=1&dpID=31PwrNjy5AL&ref=plSrch&th=1&psc=1


----------



## mbwilson111

danny93 said:


> What's the best option listening to the ZSNs via a USB c port only phone? (Mate 20 PRO)
> 
> USB replacement cable https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009148295640.html
> 
> ...



The cable you linked to does not have the ZSN's unique connector.   Personally I would go with an adapter if I needed to so that I could keep the stock cable.


----------



## Tzadka

danny93 said:


> What's the best option listening to the ZSNs via a USB c port only phone? (Mate 20 PRO)
> 
> USB replacement cable https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009148295640.html
> 
> ...


I Have the KZ Type C cable. I get a lot of static noise on quiet songs that I don't get by using the adapter to 3.5mm and the standard KZ cable. .
I stopped using the Type C cable because of this. 
Mi6 phone with AS10


----------



## Slater (Feb 3, 2019)

stryed said:


> The EP10 is pretty neat for the price and it does have the same tuning as the IT01, but the detail, texture in bass and clarity in the treble is lacking.With KZ stock black tips, they fit securely and are comfortable.
> In no area does it beat the IT01, unlike the KZ7 I believe as it probably has better soundstage if it's anything like the KZ5.
> I don't think anyone can be disappointed by the EP10 for its price.



Maybe my post sent the wrong impression. I never meant that the EP10 beat the IT01.

Rather, I only mentioned the EP10 be sure it was possible option based on the sound signature the OP was looking for.


----------



## Tzadka

Which of the Bluetooth cables is the best in both audio quality and comfort for these earphones? 

TRN? KZ APTX? TRN TWS?

Other options?

Thanks.


----------



## Antenne

danny93 said:


> What's the best option listening to the ZSNs via a USB c port only phone? (Mate 20 PRO)
> 
> USB replacement cable https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009148295640.html
> 
> ...



The Hidizs Sonata HD has about the same size as a stock USB/3.5mm converter. The Tempotec Sonata HD is almost the same, but often cheaper to get (<$25).
Since I don't own this phone, I can't say if it's worth to use an external DAC, but I think this is the smallest/cheapest of them with good reviews.


----------



## canzz

SybilLance said:


> Hola everyone! I'm strictly hit and run these days, so my apologies for the combined posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It seems like it would be a good fit  ZS7 is still not listed in Gearbest I wonder why. I was reading about unsoldered wires on some of the units as well.Is it safe to purchase ZS7 from Aliexpress now? 

Im actually willing to pay up to $250 for a great pair of earphones but I havent had time to research. I'll try to read a little more this week on iBasso and Massdrops which were highy reccommended.


----------



## Le Stef

CoiL said:


> What with would You compare it to?
> We need FR graphs ASAP to know if hype is justified, just saying as "new toy effect" can do its work
> 
> My recommendation - get either iBasso IT01 or regular Kanas. They shouldn`t dissapoint You.


Thanks, Coil.  Again the 2 same IEMs recommended, I will definitely consider getting one of them


----------



## Le Stef

SybilLance said:


> Hola everyone! I'm strictly hit and run these days, so my apologies for the combined posts.
> 
> 
> Wow, you seem really happy with the CCA C10; given the price it may be a good option, too.  How would you compare it to the AS10 though, in case you listened to both?
> ...


----------



## danny93

Antenne said:


> The Hidizs Sonata HD has about the same size as a stock USB/3.5mm converter. The Tempotec Sonata HD is almost the same, but often cheaper to get (<$25).
> Since I don't own this phone, I can't say if it's worth to use an external DAC, but I think this is the smallest/cheapest of them with good reviews.



Thanks just ordered the Hidizs Sonata HD, $28 on Ali Express atm


----------



## Slater

canzz said:


> It seems like it would be a good fit  ZS7 is still not listed in Gearbest I wonder why. I was reading about unsoldered wires on some of the units as well.Is it safe to purchase ZS7 from Aliexpress now?
> 
> Im actually willing to pay up to $250 for a great pair of earphones but I havent had time to research. I'll try to read a little more this week on iBasso and Massdrops which were highy reccommended.



The wire issue has been resolved. It is a normal part of the design, and there is no cause for alarm.

2 of the BA drivers are wired in series, and because of this 2 of the wires are connected to one another.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Good point. I keep forgetting about EP10.
> 
> It’s too bad it doesn’t get talked about much. There’s just so many different options nowadays; it’s mind boggling.
> 
> ...


I got 2 pairs of the EP10 and i can't really understand.
Both pairs have the left earbud that sounds way better than the right one, which sounds loose, like a bad source, bad bass..
Plus, i can't really find a good fit for them.. seriously dunno what to do.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> I got 2 pairs of the EP10 and i can't really understand.
> Both pairs have the left earbud that sounds way better than the right one, which sounds loose, like a bad source, bad bass..
> Plus, i can't really find a good fit for them.. seriously dunno what to do.



Well, I wasn’t really getting a good fit either. The SpinFit+keyboard oring fixed all of my fit issues.

As far as the poor sound, that sucks especially with the same problem on 2 sets! Have you tried contacting NiceHCK? I’m sure they’ll stand behind it, since it’s one of their own in-house products.


----------



## drey101

danny93 said:


> Thanks just ordered the Hidizs Sonata HD, $28 on Ali Express atm


Same phone, Mate 20 Pro. I use the Sonata HD as well, just remember to flash it to Music D if you are going to use 24/96 files. That'll remove microphone usage, but pause and play button will still work.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 4, 2019)

I dont like the KZ ZS4.

But the copper cable purple ZSN is liked by me again. Sometimes my mind is full of trash thoughts like disliking it.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I dont like the KZ ZS4.
> 
> But the copper cable purple ZSN is liked by me again. Sometimes my mind is full of trash thoughts like disliking it.



Didn’t you say the opposite yesterday?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2764#post-14754610

No sweat; everyone is allowed to change their mind 

So what made you change your mind? Tip rolling, burn in, more listening time?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Didn’t you say the opposite yesterday?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2764#post-14754610
> 
> ...


It took me more listening time. That's the problem with owning 10+ KZ's and trying to give them all a good amount of equal listening time. My faves will always be in my signature.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

kookaudio said:


> Spend 30usd for the Moondrop Crescent and forgot spending on other KZ stuff.
> Or, I’m selling my brand new Moondrop Kanas...


Uh, What are you trying to say? If that IEM can beat the KZ AS10, I'm down! If not... pass.


----------



## darmanastartes

danny93 said:


> What's the best option listening to the ZSNs via a USB c port only phone? (Mate 20 PRO)
> 
> USB replacement cable https://m.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009148295640.html
> 
> ...



The Apple USB-C to 3.5mm jack dongle has incredible measured performance and is pretty cheap.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Well, I wasn’t really getting a good fit either. The SpinFit+keyboard oring fixed all of my fit issues.
> 
> As far as the poor sound, that sucks especially with the same problem on 2 sets! Have you tried contacting NiceHCK? I’m sure they’ll stand behind it, since it’s one of their own in-house products.


Yes. Jim from NiceHCK helped me and they're very good in serving their customers.
He sent me another pair after the first one was faulty from the fukubukuro.
The new pair had the same problem, and i even requested another colour (maybe it could be a matter of color, chi-fi is always a surprise you know).
Then at the second sample i stopped that, i thanked him for the help but i'm not angry about it. 
He tried everything he could do and said that i would have a discount for my next one if bought from them, so they were amazing in terms of customer support.


----------



## eclein (Feb 4, 2019)

After constantly listening to the C16s I’m not sure if they are balanced sounding or neutral sounding....Everything is there and they can get bright, no sibilance, but bright. Low end is there when called for but not excessive......If the C10s are balanced Correct? Then I would say the 16s are leaning toward neutral. I’m still tapping my toe and having fun listening to them. Today I will listen to C10s and listen for differences if any.
 I wish I could find the right way to fit my BA10s so I could compare....I ordered some larger spinfits to try..mine are Orange!.....I’m having a blast checking out stuff all over Spotify, looking for newer stuff I like......


----------



## eclein

I sometimes wish a bunch of us were closer so we could get together and try stuff we don’t have yet. People could hear my iem and vice versa before spending the money. A lot of plane fares would immediately bollocks the idea but I could see our screen names all sitting around a living room groovin on some tunes. Speaking of which check out this coat I found on Posh-mark...different toons,


----------



## HerrXRDS (Feb 4, 2019)

Got me a second pair of ZS7 being that the first one didn't had the capacitor soldered right, checked and everything is wired correctly on this set. Everyone praise these to be an improved ZS6 which I don't think it is, this is a different IEM. To me the vocals sound shouty and artificial, overall sound is pretty congested and inferior to ZS6. No matter how much EQ I try to apply I just can't seem to get them to sound right. Bass is the only part that is better. Sure, the ZS6 is painful to listen as default, but with some EQ they reach a level ZS7 is not capable of no matter how much I try. I find ZS7 maybe just slightly above average in the $50 price bracket, ok to listen but not 5 star IEMs, to give them 5 stars I think is doing a disservice to other IEMs which are better. It seems everything new that can produce sound gets 5 stars nowadays.


----------



## eclein

Hey Slater or Panda when you guys swap cables between iems even though they may be the same exact pin size do they eventually loosen and become a PITA?
I’m interested in dabbling in cables and I’m trying to avoid potential problems....I have other cables but I’m afraid of loosening the fitting and have falling iems!

Also is there any basic rules like silver brings out ?? frequencies or copper heghtens or tones down ?? frequencies?
Different cores, like I see 8 core cables and other kinds, how do they change the sound? In general..as I’m sure there probably is little hardcore proof as to how they change sound. IM me if its way off topic here as it is, but I didn’t want to forget my question another week...lol....
Thanks guys


----------



## HungryPanda

I notice a difference in silver or copper cables. silver tends to make an iem brighter, copper warms them. I have not really noticed a difference between amounts of cores


----------



## BoZ29

HerrXRDS said:


> Got me a second pair of ZS7 being that the first one didn't had the capacitor soldered right, checked and everything is wired correctly on this set. Everyone praise these to be an improved ZS6 which I don't think it is, this is a different IEM. To me the vocals sound shouty and artificial, overall sound is pretty congested and inferior to ZS6. No matter how much EQ I try to apply I just can't seem to get them to sound right. Bass is the only part that is better. Sure, the ZS6 is painful to listen as default, but with some EQ they reach a level ZS7 is not capable of no matter how much I try. I find ZS7 maybe just slightly above average in the $50 price bracket, ok to listen but not 5 star IEMs, to give them 5 stars I think is doing a disservice to other IEMs which are better. It seems everything new that can produce sound gets 5 stars nowadays.


It’s a matter of taste. But I’ll get your point. For me the zs7 are enjoyable because they don’t irritate and are great in separate the instruments. In my case the vocals are just fine, a bit forward, but comparable to my Kef ls50 speakers.


----------



## SoundChoice

HerrXRDS said:


> Got me a second pair of ZS7 being that the first one didn't had the capacitor soldered right, checked and everything is wired correctly on this set. Everyone praise these to be an improved ZS6 which I don't think it is, this is a different IEM. To me the vocals sound shouty and artificial, overall sound is pretty congested and inferior to ZS6. No matter how much EQ I try to apply I just can't seem to get them to sound right. Bass is the only part that is better. Sure, the ZS6 is painful to listen as default, but with some EQ they reach a level ZS7 is not capable of no matter how much I try. I find ZS7 maybe just slightly above average in the $50 price bracket, ok to listen but not 5 star IEMs, to give them 5 stars I think is doing a disservice to other IEMs which are better. It seems everything new that can produce sound gets 5 stars nowadays.



Agree. Spend a few more bucks, get the AS10 and call it a day from KZ.


----------



## Dasaesthetics

Where do y'all buy your KZ's? Rather not go through aliexpress...
U.S bro


----------



## eclein

I use Amazon and look for prime I can’t stand waiting. I ordered a case for Fiio m6 on AE and its over a month and nothing. Last scan was 1/12 and everybody there is on holiday (which is fine really everybody needs time off) but I’m toast until they decide to read their messages.

Fiio on AE sent my M6 via DHL 5 days before Christmas and I got it on the 24th...but the price was up $30 for rush DHL....


----------



## HerrXRDS

Dasaesthetics said:


> Where do y'all buy your KZ's? Rather not go through aliexpress...
> U.S bro



https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=kz


----------



## Slater (Feb 4, 2019)

eclein said:


> Hey Slater or Panda when you guys swap cables between iems even though they may be the same exact pin size do they eventually loosen and become a PITA?
> I’m interested in dabbling in cables and I’m trying to avoid potential problems....I have other cables but I’m afraid of loosening the fitting and have falling iems!
> 
> Also is there any basic rules like silver brings out ?? frequencies or copper heghtens or tones down ?? frequencies?
> ...



I’ve only ever noticed a sound difference when cable X has a significant impedance difference than cable Y.

If I have 2 cables of the same impedance, thickness, and they have the same plug ends, but one is silver plated and the other is some fancy single crystal oxygen free copper, I cannot really hear a noticeable difference. But I’m just 1 person, and my ears aren’t a valid piece of scientific measurement equipment.

I _personally_ tend to buy cables based on looks, reduced microphonics, better ear wires, better quality ends, features such as chin slider, etc.

It’s really up to you. No one should think that installing a $30 cable on a $50 or $100 budget IEM sound is going to make it sound like a CA Andromeda.

You can tip roll different tips and get a much more apparent change in sound. Wide bore generally reduces low end and increases sound stage, foam usually improves isolation and lowers treble. So I don’t rely on cables to try and tune or tweak the sound. That *doesn’t* mean that you can’t use cables with different impedances to do so however!

As far as the loose plugvstuff, in my experience, I’ve found that due to normal manufacturing tolerances some female 2-pin sockets are just loose or tight from the factory. In the case of a loose fitting female socket, I’ve never tried to use 0.78mm cables to make up the difference. I just splay the legs of the pins a tiny amount, or else tin the cable pins with a small coating of solder. In other words, I don’t sweat it too much.

As far as number of wires, I have a personal preference of 8-core cables. I think they look the best, and they are heavy enough to be able to use with NO ear guides at all and still stay in place behind my ears. But I have some nice 4-wire cables too, such as the stock IT01 cable. It uses less wires but they are thicker gauge, so the net effect is the same. I don’t have any experience with 16-wire cables. I don’t plan on buying any though, as I imagine it would be a big PITA in case I ever had to replace a plug or repair the cable. I would MUCH rather solder 4 or 8 wires than 16, but again that’s just personal preference.

I hope that helps!


----------



## eclein

I buy based on looks too Slater..& Panda thanks you two for the information!. I’m not looking for any major sound change just curious if there were sort of known or unknown things before I buy a maybe $20 ish cable I’m not fond of the kz stock ones.....they need neck ties and smaller size y split....trn stuff is good and the BQ3 has my favorite.........


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> I buy based on looks too Slater..& Panda thanks you two for the information!. I’m not looking for any major sound change just curious if there were sort of known or unknown things before I buy a maybe $20 ish cable I’m not fond of the kz stock ones.....they need neck ties and smaller size y split....trn stuff is good and the BQ3 has my favorite.........



No problem friend.

I like the TRN 8-wire cables, and have a number of them. Great value, looks, quality, etc. There are better cables available, but there are worse cables too. The TRN 4-wire silver plated cable is nice as well. It performs well, and is less bulky than the 8-wire TRN cables.

As far as BQ3, I've always wanted one, but they would be pretty redundant since I have the K2 which sound very similar.

Good luck, and let us know how you like whatever cable you end up buying


----------



## sagor1

Anyone know when will As10 successor come?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

SoundChoice said:


> Agree. Spend a few more bucks, get the AS10 and call it a day from KZ.



I am starting to wonder if I received a rare golden quality ZS7, I think they sound amazing. The great instrument separation, 3D soundstage, deep, powerful, punchy, tight, textured bass and clear sparkly treble (can be slightly harsh at times). Very energetic and fun. The AS10 sounds good, but a bit dark, stronger mids, soundstage is small, much less airy sounding than the ZS7, serious and slightly boring sounding in comparison to the ZS7.

I am using the basic silver KZ balanced cables on a FiiO X7 MK II with wide bore spiral dots, maybe that is making the difference? I noticed the nozzles on the ZS7 are angled forward a lot, maybe this works better for some people and worse for others?

My C10 has been burning in for a bit. It has a wider soundstage than the ZS7 but not 3D. Bass and instrument separation are still much better sounding on the ZS7. Treble on the C10 is smoother and some instruments are more natural sounding.

Oh and I might have ordered the CCA C16  now I'll have to wait four weeks because of the lunar new year :^|


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## SybilLance (Feb 5, 2019)

To Our Chinese Friends in This Community:


* Happy Chinese New Year!*​
*Wishing You All Peace, Love, Happiness, 
Good Health and Prosperity 
in this New Year and Always! *​


----------



## eclein

My C10s took awhile to settle out but totally worth it....the first week if they weren’t in my ears they were hooked to my tv/hifi system listening to tv.......my tv stays on 24/7 pretty much...so a solid week then just listening each day....clearhead has notes with times it took to change various ways....he is way more patient than I.

C10s are excellent......if you get the 16s enjoy the 10s while the holiday is going on....C16 is really fun for me at least to get lost in the sound. Both feel invisible to me after a few minutes so its fun, fun!


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## BoZ29

Dasaesthetics said:


> Where do y'all buy your KZ's? Rather not go through aliexpress...
> U.S bro


KZ comes from China. If you buy it in US or Europe, it’s still coming from China. You only fill the pockets of Jeff Bezos.


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## BoZ29

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I am starting to wonder if I received a rare golden quality ZS7, I think they sound amazing. The great instrument separation, 3D soundstage, deep, powerful, punchy, tight, textured bass and clear sparkly treble (can be slightly harsh at times). Very energetic and fun. The AS10 sounds good, but a bit dark, stronger mids, soundstage is small, much less airy sounding than the ZS7, serious and slightly boring sounding in comparison to the ZS7.
> 
> I am using the basic silver KZ balanced cables on a FiiO X7 MK II with wide bore spiral dots, maybe that is making the difference? I noticed the nozzles on the ZS7 are angled forward a lot, maybe this works better for some people and worse for others?
> 
> ...


My zs7 sounds great too. Maybe it’s the Dutch weather


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## KipNix (Feb 5, 2019)

BoZ29 said:


> KZ comes from China. If you buy it in US or Europe, it’s still coming from China. You only fill the pockets of Jeff Bezos.


Right on. Holy conversion, Batman. I'm in Canada and can get the AS10 at Ali for $55 CAD compared to $90 CAD at Amazon Canada with free shipping. Both "Ships From China".
 A check of the friendly neighborhood Ebay Canada shows around $80 with combined shipping but I had to laugh to see it shipping from California with "First Class package International Service".
Yeah, right.
That translates into, "you'll still get it after waiting for shipping from China".
I'll personally stick to ordering from Ali, which I have much experience with.


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## Slater (Feb 5, 2019)

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I am starting to wonder if I received a rare golden quality ZS7, I think they sound amazing. The great instrument separation, 3D soundstage, deep, powerful, punchy, tight, textured bass and clear sparkly treble (can be slightly harsh at times). Very energetic and fun.



I agree. One of the best KZs I’ve heard to date.

Mine has no harshness; certainly not compared to other models. Are there particular tracks that you find harsh, so I can take a listen?

I will also say if someone doesn’t like the ZS7, it could be due to many reasons, including:

Maybe it’s not their preferred sound signature
They could be used to higher end IEMs ($200+)
Expectations are too high (its budget ChiFi after all)
They may not be using a decent source (mine sound better with my X3+amp vs my iPhone)
It could have some QC issue (like a sideways capacitor, 1+ drivers wired out of phase, wire short, etc)
Fitment issue, seal issue
Good thing there’s no shortage of choices! What a time to be in the hobby. We’ve come a long way from transistor radios and Gemini/GPX walkmans lol


----------



## randomnin

SybilLance said:


> To Our Chinese Friends in This Community:
> 
> 
> * Happy Chinese New Year!*​
> ...


Indeed, adding my voice to the congratulations and wishing you a good social credit score in the new year and all the coming ones, too!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

I'll keep on burning in and testing my C10's. It seems the soundstage has already widened on them. I am really looking forward to the C16 (and the **** as well).


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> I agree. One of the best KZs I’ve heard to date.
> 
> Mine has no harshness; certainly not compared to other models. Are there particular tracks that you find harsh, so I can take a listen?
> 
> ...



Sorry, for the double-post, I apparently didn't refresh my browser.

I'll keep an ear out for something that sounds slightly harsh compared to on my other earphones, or maybe the others I have are just too rolled off. Though listening to them right now, they might have already tamed a little bit since I've left them running all night last night.

Indeed, don't expect top of the line with cheap earphones that relatively offer a lot, and QC will be variable at these prices. I really like the ZS7 for what they are.
Yes, a good source, good quality music and good tips are important.

I love that we have so many interesting options to compare at these low prices.


----------



## durwood

I am thinning the herd so anyone interested in some KZ models and located in the US or Canada contact me. For sale thread is in my sig. I have some other non-KZ stuff for sale too. Package deals and freebies available.


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## zozito

My C10 is just arrived. Will try tomorrow. High espectations on these.


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## purplesun (Feb 5, 2019)

What's the relationship between the companies KZ and CCA? I read in passing here that they are sister companies. Any more details about that?

Anyway, just ordered a CCA C10 and CCA C16. This mirrors my earlier purchase of KZ ZSN (hybrid, like C10) and KZ AS06 (BA only, like C16).
I liked the AS06 paired with my amped DAP. Has decent timbre & resolve across the FR, though a bit too much on 5k-6k sibilant frequencies for my taste.
Hoping the CCAs will impress on a bigger scale for their higher price range.


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## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 5, 2019)

KipNix said:


> I'm in Canada and can get the AS10 at Ali for $55 CAD compared to $90 CAD at Amazon Canada with free shipping. Both "Ships From China".
> A check of the friendly neighborhood Ebay Canada shows around $80 with combined shipping but I had to laugh to see it shipping from California with "First Class package International Service".
> That translates into, "you'll still get it after waiting for shipping from China". I'll personally stick to ordering from Ali, which I have much experience with.


I got 'screwed' on an order from Gearbest. I thought it was Canadian pricing, but nope, it was US. I paid $5 more for a KZ ZS4 than I would have on Aliexpress. I don't even like it. The fit is terrible (feels like someones fingers are in my ears) and the sound mediocre (with minor burn in).


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## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 5, 2019)

If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?

People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?


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## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?
> 
> People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?



That's a personal decision between you and audio god. Most people are fine with the earphones that come with their phones or cheap skull candies ect. They just enjoy the music with whatever they have. Only those of us that have taken the "Red Pill" are awakened to realize that we will never be happy unless we spend an endless amount of money on things that generally all sound pretty much the same.


----------



## Sylmar

I love the KZ ZSN sound tuning but would love an IEM with a little more detail and separation. Preferably under $100. Any suggestions?


----------



## coflaes

Sylmar said:


> I love the KZ ZSN sound tuning but would love an IEM with a little more detail and separation. Preferably under $100. Any suggestions?


Cca c10, cca c16


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## Sylmar

coflaes said:


> Cca c10, cca c16


I'll have a look at those. Thanks.


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## DynamicEars

Sylmar said:


> I love the KZ ZSN sound tuning but would love an IEM with a little more detail and separation. Preferably under $100. Any suggestions?



Bring this question on CHIFI thread if you are open to other brand as well. 

If you means KZ, ZS7 looks good but different signature with better technical abilities, more detail and separation of course. Or try CCA C10, still KZ sister company.


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## eclein

If this is to be a CCA thread also, which is great idea, maybe put “CCA” In the title?  Like (KZ),(CCA),.....?
That way its obvious and easy to find.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Wonder what CCA has in store next? They got $12, $25 and $95 on lock. They really need something in the $50-$60 range. Wonder what that could be? 

Any guesses?


----------



## Leonccyiu

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?
> 
> People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?



As a hi-res audio proponent, my answer to your question is probably not or not necessarily, but better headphones will benefit more from higher quality sources.

I'll elaborate on my answer above and I'll say that dynamic range compression is endemic in modern pop music and CD/CD quality releases, 24bit high sample rate and DSD music tend to be more well mastered although the format itself plays an important part in sound quality.

The main downside to CD quality is the sample rate of 44.1khz which means a low pass filter must be able to attenuate all signals with a frequency between 20khz and 22.05khz by 96db to prevent aliasing when sampling and a sharp low pass filter is also required during reconstruction as mirror images are produced which must be filtered. A consequence of the sharp filters are artifact's known as ringing which is are small waves before or after the transient which confuses our brains ability to localise and isolate sounds. A much gentler filter can be used at 96 and 192khz albeit at the cost of disk space.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-v-pcm-file-comparison-16441-2496-24192-64x-dsd-128x-dsd

This man's impressions for PCM exactly match mine albeit under less controlled testing, but I never felt what he described as DSD where everything is located in real space compared to PCM. That was because I was using in ear phones (Sony MDR EX650) which don't take average of the pinna or your ear folds shaping the sound (this was pointed out to my by a professor who did the meta analysis on hi Res audio studies which found a statistically significant preference for hi Res). I now have an open back over ear pair of Sennheiser hd579's and I now know what he's talking about.

I plan to do a post where I compare varying levels of quality from lossy sources starting with YouTube to 320kbps MP3/256kbps vbr aac, CD flac, 24 96/192/352.8 and DSD 1x,2x,3x between the KZ ZSN and Sennheiser open back over ear. 

That post will elaborate on your question. The best headphones in the world aren't going to make CD quality sound life like, normal headphones can sound better with high quality sources. The most expensive in ears still don't take advantage of our unique ear folds which play a crucial part in shaping the sound for directional perception and can't displace as much air as the larger drivers of over ears.


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## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Wonder what CCA has in store next? They got $12, $25 and $95 on lock. They really need something in the $50-$60 range. Wonder what that could be?
> 
> Any guesses?



That was the space where the ZS6, ZS7, and ZS10 occupied.

It’s just the street price of those models varies depending on the seller and any sales. But the list price of those is around $50-$60ish


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## darmanastartes

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?
> 
> People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?


16/44.1 FLAC was designed to exceed the limits of human hearing. Hi Res is pointless for listening, especially given how little dynamic range exists in the average modern recording.
The quality of the headphones you use is much more important to fidelity than bitrate.


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## eclein

Hey C16 owners try this with whatever equipment you have on hand.
I use a Fiio M6 and stream Spotify alot well I just hooked up my ibasso D14 dac/amp to its line out and listened as always. Incredible how alive the 16s become. Authoritative bass thats controlled and dynamics that were excellent throughout. The C16 loves power and really comes to life. I’m set now this is without a doubt the best sounding setup I have..wow. The C10s also take on a new life with power......holy mackerel Batman .....try it . Let me know what changes you hear.


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## SybilLance (Feb 6, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?
> 
> People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?





Leonccyiu said:


> As a hi-res audio proponent, my answer to your question is probably not or not necessarily, but better headphones will benefit more from higher quality sources.
> 
> I'll elaborate on my answer above and I'll say that dynamic range compression is endemic in modern pop music and CD/CD quality releases, 24bit high sample rate and DSD music tend to be more well mastered although the format itself plays an important part in sound quality.
> 
> ...





darmanastartes said:


> 16/44.1 FLAC was designed to exceed the limits of human hearing. Hi Res is pointless for listening, especially given how little dynamic range exists in the average modern recording.
> The quality of the headphones you use is much more important to fidelity than bitrate.



Very interesting, particularly that portion where Leonccyiu says, as he did in a previous post, that steep low-pass filters give rise to ringing artifacts. I’m making a note to try to read more about this as I’m just too busy these days—I’m having my siesta at the moment, though.

As for that comparison from the link he provided, I would have hoped that was done at least through simple blind listening (I hope I don’t trigger some flags by mentioning it) to rule out bias of sighted foreknowledge.

Hopefully without stirring up a hornet’s nest that might get us censured, allow me to assume, for a moment, that hi-res audio files indeed make an audible difference (although I tend to hew to the view that they don’t, I still have many hi-res files in my player mostly because they’re the only ones available) . With even such assumption, my thesis would still be that as regards reproduction of music the type and quality of the headphone would have a much more immediate effect on impression of music fidelity than file format, if we're talking only about these 2 specific factors.

I come from 2-channel stereo. I still make it a point to have some late-night listening sessions through my system every once in a while. From this milieu to that of over-ear headphones, even open-backed ones, I find the biggest difference lies in my perception of “soundstage”. In fact I define it as what I hear when seated at the sweet spot of my two stereo speakers properly toed in, with the various interactions of the sound waves reflecting off the topology of my listening room. Indeed, with headphones, what Leonccyiu described as the role of the human anatomy and physiology in sound perception is constrained inasmuch as the sound now directly comes from just a few centimeters away from our ear canals. I quote from the excellently managed Wikipedia article on head-related transfer function (HRTF):

“As sound strikes the listener, the size and shape of the head, ears, ear canal, density of the head, size and shape of nasal and oral cavities, all transform the sound and affect how it is perceived, boosting some frequencies and attenuating others.”

From over-ear to in-ear headphones, I find that whatever semblance of “soundstage” I hear becomes even more constricted, confined to a sort of planar area in my head intersecting my ears, such that I have yet to _fully_ perceive that phantom center channel one readily comes across with loudspeakers, _in its entirety_. Whatever interactions the sound waves have with the pinnae of the ears are now absent because the nozzles of the earpieces are firmly lodged at and covering the, entrance of the ear canals. In other words, for me “soundstage” becomes illusory when listening to in-ears.

On the other hand, in this latter regard, my impressions are limited by my likewise limited experience with in-ears. The best one I’ve _heard_ thus far (the best one I’m most _familiar_ with is the Simgot EM3 of my husband) is the Campfire Audio Andromeda to which my husband’s friend graciously allowed me to listen for a few songs when he came to visit last weekend. What struck me immediately was its impressively expansive sound field and, with a 24-bit/192 KHz binaurally-recorded source (_Stripped_, Macy Gray, Chesky Records, 2016; recorded live on high resolution audio in a decommissioned Brooklyn church around one binaural microphone) gave me that virtual center channel experience, albeit momentarily. With the Andromeda, it’s like I was listening with my HE-400i, with the singer’s distinctive rasp some 2 meters away from my forehead. Much better impression than what hitherto had been my point of reference for out-of-the-head perception among in-ears, the KZ ZS5v1, could ever give. Yet, when I opened my eyes and turned to my companions thus losing my engagement with the music that voice in front of me was gone and now was back hovering there just inside the top middle of my forehead. The perception was still illusory.

Have you come across this page at rtings.com?

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/soundstage

Their bases and description of soundstage jibe with my own thoughts, but of course explained infinitely better from a scientific viewpoint.

Have to cut this short so i'll jump forward, sorry: for me, what one has along the audio chain is each important, yes. My music however—what I make of it, the way I hear it—is still paramount. It doesn't matter if it's recorded on very early 20th century 78 rpm vinyl, or 33 rpm master-quality virgin vinyl, or 1980s cassette tape, or CD, or SACD, or Blu-Ray, or rips thereof in mp3, FLAC, APE, WAV, AIFF, DSD or MQA or whatever audio file format. Still music to my ears.

Aside from my school days I have no science background, see, just your average curious lay person who strives to learn more, in order that she may at least be conversant on whatever limited audio topic with her husband who has all those letters and abbreviations after his name.

And my own top in-ears, in order of subjective impression of sound quality and preference, are: the CCA C10; the KZ ZSN; and the KZ ZS6. I also have a self-imposed limit of $30 for in-ears, which shall be deemed inoperative until after I shall have retired in a couple of years or less.


----------



## purplesun

eclein said:


> Hey C16 owners try this with whatever equipment you have on hand.
> I use a Fiio M6 and stream Spotify alot well I just hooked up my ibasso D14 dac/amp to its line out and listened as always. Incredible how alive the 16s become. Authoritative bass thats controlled and dynamics that were excellent throughout. The C16 loves power and really comes to life. I’m set now this is without a doubt the best sounding setup I have..wow. The C10s also take on a new life with power......holy mackerel Batman .....try it . Let me know what changes you hear.


IMO, it's also happens on my KZ AS06 (but not so much on ZSN). The drama & excitement of the music go up a few notches when amped up. Whereas, on my unamped HIdizs AP80 DAP, the music is significantly less appealing. I ordered C10 and C16 today to see if they have the same power scaling-up effect; your post does suggest that to be so. I wonder if KZ and CCA are using the same BA drivers?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 6, 2019)

purplesun said:


> IMO, it's also happens on my KZ AS06 (but not so much on ZSN). The drama & excitement of the music go up a few notches when amped up. Whereas, on my unamped HIdizs AP80 DAP, the music is significantly less appealing. I ordered C10 and C16 today to see if they have the same power scaling-up effect; your post does suggest that to be so. I wonder if KZ and CCA are using the same BA drivers?



My understanding is that CCA C4 (rarely mentioned) mirrors KZ ZSA, and CCA C10 mirrors KZ ZS7 in their drivers.

CCA C16 employs only 3 different BAs, as KZ AS06 (the same part numbers but should be differently tuned), where 8 are made of 2 bass, 2 mids and 4 treble, similar to a doubled string quartet .


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> CCA C16 employs only 3 different BAs, as KZ AS06 (the same part numbers but should be differently tuned), where 8 are made of 2 bass, 2 mids and 4 treble, similar to a doubled string quartet .


Same drivers as AS06 was what I was hoping for. And, so far, the few C16 users seem to be happy with the crossover's tuning. Plus I do like a string quartet when they are rockin' a good tune!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?
> 
> People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?



No, I rip my CD's to FLAC and they sound great. I see people here using Spotify, don't use Spotify if you want to enjoy audio quality, my wife uses Spotify and it sounds horrible, especially in combination with modern music, which sounds like it was recorded in mono. Use Tidal Hi-Fi instead for streaming.

Hi-Res audio only makes a subtle difference to me, in theory 44.1KHz at 16bit is more than you can hear. The low-pass filtering artifacts are a valid point though, otherwise you wouldn't be able to hear the difference between the filter settings on the FiiO X7 MK II, which I do.
DSD is something else, SACD loses detail above 1KHz compared to redbook CD audio, the bitrate needs to be really high to match CD and then the frequencies below 1KHz get over-defined.



eclein said:


> If this is to be a CCA thread also, which is great idea, maybe put “CCA” In the title?  Like (KZ),(CCA),.....?
> That way its obvious and easy to find.



Yes, I agree. The CCA earphones are mentioned a lot here and it really is the same manufacturer.


----------



## puppyfi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?
> 
> People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?



I have various HiRes music files in my collection over the years.
I have the excellent Macy Gray Stripped as well as copies of Norah Jones Come Away With Me, Miles Davis Kind of Blue, etc etc in DSD, 24/196 format.
But I always enjoy listening to CD Rip copy of Rolling Stones Blue & Lonesome, even though it's of poorer recording, much more than those HiRes music.
Some CD Rip of good recording like Muddy Waters Folk Singers already sounds excellent even at 16/44.
My point is, good quality system (or a system with good synergy) is still essential for music enjoyment and appreciation.
HiRes music not so much...you may discern differences in format, but it's not going to be like heaven and earth to change your enjoyment of music. 
But generally, I will avoid mp3 (even at 320k).
Expensive earphones? It really depends. Sometimes can be a waste of money and may not sound good if there's no synergy with the DAPs in pairing.
But with the right system, I can happily enjoy listening to any albums that I like just from CD Rips, even better, if the original mastering recording is good.


----------



## jeromeaparis

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If someone just listens to CD rips does buying expensive earphones negate a waste of money?
> 
> People keep pushing the newest earphones from KZ but what if the majority of people aren't listening to high quality music files? Will they be wasting their money when a KZ ZSN or whatever could be good enough?



Even 128k mp3 may sound very good with a good dac, if well recorded.
same files at 320 earn some more detais, trebles, texture.
Flac and very hi res give still more clarity, punch, etc (if you realy listen)

If you have a great dac on your computer or phone,
Try https://www.neilyoungarchives.com/ and switch between 320 and master !

My AS10 gives me a great sound with all files.


----------



## CoiL

darmanastartes said:


> 16/44.1 FLAC was designed to exceed the limits of human hearing. Hi Res is pointless for listening, especially given how little dynamic range exists in the average modern recording.
> The quality of the headphones you use is much more important to fidelity than bitrate.





LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> No, I rip my CD's to FLAC and they sound great. I see people here using Spotify, don't use Spotify if you want to enjoy audio quality, my wife uses Spotify and it sounds horrible, especially in combination with modern music, which sounds like it was recorded in mono. Use Tidal Hi-Fi instead for streaming.
> 
> Hi-Res audio only makes a subtle difference to me, in theory 44.1KHz at 16bit is more than you can hear. The low-pass filtering artifacts are a valid point though, otherwise you wouldn't be able to hear the difference between the filter settings on the FiiO X7 MK II, which I do.
> DSD is something else, SACD loses detail above 1KHz compared to redbook CD audio, the bitrate needs to be really high to match CD and then the frequencies below 1KHz get over-defined.
> ...



I only listen CD rips @ 16/44. 24-bit imho is pointless and it has been theoretically/mathematically proven in h-fi threads. kHz means lot more than bitrate.


----------



## Letm

Hi. I was looking for a budget Bluetooth headphones to use at night, with my fire TV stick 4k, without waking up anyone. After a brief research, I decided to buy the earbuds Kz bte. Have been testing with the fire TV stick ("normal" Bluetooth) and with my LG g7 (aptx). Really great value for the price (around $25 in my country). With the lg g7, they sound really good. The sound signature is similar to the one in the Kz ed16(which ended up as a gift for a friend). Just to clarify, I have other headphones for serious listening (dt 770, hd 598) but this earbuds are a great solution for the budget.


----------



## Slater

Letm said:


> Hi. I was looking for a budget Bluetooth headphones to use at night, with my fire TV stick 4k, without waking up anyone. After a brief research, I decided to buy the earbuds Kz bte. Have been testing with the fire TV stick ("normal" Bluetooth) and with my LG g7 (aptx). Really great value for the price (around $25 in my country). With the lg g7, they sound really good. The sound signature is similar to the one in the Kz ed16(which ended up as a gift for a friend). Just to clarify, I have other headphones for serious listening (dt 770, hd 598) but this earbuds are a great solution for the budget.



Wow, you’re actually the 1st person I’ve ever even seen that has those!

The BTE kind of came and went, and I never heard anything.


----------



## darmanastartes

Something that often gets overlooked in conversations about source quality is how noisy your listening area is. This is a particularly important note when it comes to on-the-go listening. 
I also feel that people are not aware of how much progress has been made in lossy encoders over the last 5 years or so.


----------



## Letm (Feb 6, 2019)

Slater said:


> Wow, you’re actually the 1st person I’ve ever even seen that has those!
> 
> The BTE kind of came and went, and I never heard anything.



Yeah. At least on this forum. I think the main reason for the lack of interest in the bte is that some of the fans of the brand are converting other Kz (ed16, as 10, etc) changing their cables for a Bluetooth alternative, making the bte unnecessary


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

CoiL said:


> I only listen CD rips @ 16/44. 24-bit imho is pointless and it has been theoretically/mathematically proven in h-fi threads. kHz means lot more than bitrate.



Agreed, the lowest bit in 16-bit audio equals -96dB, which is impossible to hear. More bits are useful when you are going to be applying effects to the audio that degrade the precision.

Higher frequencies mostly help to move the aliasing frequencies further up from the range of human hearing and eliminate the low-pass filter side-effects. I personally hardly hear anything above 15KHz anymore.

SACD and DSD usually as well, only use a stream of single bits. Therefore the bitrate needs to be very high for frequencies above 1Khz to have the same definition as redbook CD audio. SACD falls short of that.

More on topic, my CCA C10's seem to be improving in instrument separation and the bass is becoming stronger and better. Interesting how long they take to burn in.


----------



## Slater

Letm said:


> Yeah. At least on this forum. I think the main reason for the lack of interest in the bte is that some of the fans of the brand are converting other Kz (ed16, as 10, etc) changing their cables for a Bluetooth alternative, making the bte unnecessary



I agree. I was honestly surprised KZ even cans out with them. They have historically had a lot of quality and performance challenges with their Bluetooth devices.

I personally will never buy another LZ Bluetooth product. However, if they somehow got their act together with the BTE, then they should have made it a removable 2-pin cable. That way, it could have been used universally with their other 2-pin IEMs.


----------



## Letm

Slater said:


> I agree. I was honestly surprised KZ even cans out with them. They have historically had a lot of quality and performance challenges with their Bluetooth devices.
> 
> I personally will never buy another LZ Bluetooth product. However, if they somehow got their act together with the BTE, then they should have made it a removable 2-pin cable. That way, it could have been used universally with their other 2-pin IEMs.



I agree with that. It was just an impulse buy, to solve this particular problem. I will post my opinion about the Bluetooth connection of the bte after more use just as a reference.


----------



## majki84

Hello everyone. 

I'm following this thread for a few dozens of pages (and not only this site). Thanks to You all I could narrow my to buy list of Iems to just three: *KZ AS10, CCA C10 and CCA C16*. I need a pair for myself and one for my girlfriend.

As for me: 
Stuff I used: currently stock *B&O* earphones for LG V30 (could be better), *soundmagic E10* (pretty happy with those), *AKG K518 DJ* (too much pressure for my ears, no good for biking because of size, to warm at summer, but sound was good) , *Sennheiser CX300 II *(pretty similar to Soundmagic) *, *at home I listen to music on *Logitech Z-5500* (via toslink from Asus Xonar DX).

I listen to variety of music: mostly some trance (vocal trance especially), dance/techno/electronic (tiesto,  van buuren etc), but also pop , some light rock and metal ballads (love those electric guitars ). I got used to a lot of bass and like it (love my subwoofer  but it's a bit too boomy) and I was always listening to music with v shaped eq or/and hardware with this signature. I want to add some brightness and clarity and overall quality to the sound. I never heard BA drivers before and I'm pretty intrigued by them and want to try it. Which of those three would be good for Spotify premium (maybe tidal hifi if needed) and lg v30? I will listen to music during commuting by bus and while biking (same for my gf), so good comfort and isolation needed. Price is ok for me up to 100 usd (of course if for my purpose cheaper set would do, the better ).

As for my gf: she was using some crap stuff and I think she has a bit fatigued hearing of loud heavy metal so probably any of those 3 should be fine. So she need it mostly for some heavier music - metal, rock, punk and trance as addition. Bus and bike involved, so same comfort needed, plus bare in mind that she has smaller ears. She will be using it with samsung galaxy s5 (Spotify,rather not tidal hifi - too expensive in Poland for her). Budget for her is tighter - let say up to 50 usd/EUR. What's important that we live in Poland and can have employee 10% discount from Amazon(.de) and another 20% cashback. Unfortunately I can't see any CCA earbuds at Amazon, only KZ.

OH, we need some controls on the wire (mic would be good as well). It would rather be occasional listening rather than some few hours marathons. 

Any suggestions and tips? Especially in C16 topic, because no pro reviews yet on the web.


----------



## Podster

So the Postman came today and my KZ's looked at me and in that heavy Latin (Antonia Banderas) voice said "Let's Play"




 

And so they have


----------



## purplesun

majki84 said:


> As for my gf: she was using some crap stuff and I think she has a bit fatigued hearing of loud heavy metal so probably any of those 3 should be fine. So she need it mostly for some heavier music - metal, rock, punk and trance as addition. Bus and bike involved, so same comfort needed, plus bare in mind that she has smaller ears. She will be using it with samsung galaxy s5 (Spotify,rather not tidal hifi - too expensive in Poland for her). Budget for her is tighter - let say up to 50 usd/EUR. What's important that we live in Poland and can have employee 10% discount from Amazon(.de) and another 20% cashback. Unfortunately I can't see any CCA earbuds at Amazon, only KZ.



With her music list, you should put KZ ATE/ATR on your radar. They are small, comfortable, very cheap and easy to drive. Not great accuracy nor extensions, but they are just the thing for toe-tapping, head nodding/banging songs.


----------



## Podster

I agree with that ATR choice and I might throw in the ZS4's


----------



## BadReligionPunk

majki84 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm following this thread for a few dozens of pages (and not only this site). Thanks to You all I could narrow my to buy list of Iems to just three: *KZ AS10, CCA C10 and CCA C16*. I need a pair for myself and one for my girlfriend.
> 
> ...



CCA C10 or KZ ZSN with mic for both. Both are metal and punk approved. ZSN Is a bit more comfortable to me and is lighter. It is more energetic and lively then C10. Mids are more forward. Electric guitar sounds dope AF. ZSN has a very fun sound. C10 is more smooth and refined. Better stage and better separation. Cant go wrong with either. 

AS10 and C16 I don't have so cant comment.


----------



## PhonoPhi

majki84 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm following this thread for a few dozens of pages (and not only this site). Thanks to You all I could narrow my to buy list of Iems to just three: *KZ AS10, CCA C10 and CCA C16*. I need a pair for myself and one for my girlfriend.
> 
> ...



CCA C10 is definitely the one to try - an amazing value (IMHO,) and may suite your music preferences. 
KZ Z7  -  if you find it at closer prices to CCA C10 (close relatives, the same drivers).
KZ ZSN is also excellent for its price, and offers very nice fit and appearance.
CCA C04, possibly, if you can get it below $14-15, to me it is an improved version of KZ ZSA.

KZ AS10 is my favourite. 
It benefits a lot from low-impedance sources. It is more analytical than CCA C10, so trying CCA C10 first and deciding where you want to go from there may be a good first move.


----------



## SybilLance

eclein said:


> If this is to be a CCA thread also, which is great idea, maybe put “CCA” In the title?  Like (KZ),(CCA),.....?
> That way its obvious and easy to find.





LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Yes, I agree. The CCA earphones are mentioned a lot here and it really is the same manufacturer.



At the moment what we have are anecdotal evidence—although there's lots of it. If there's definitive proof, like an acknowledgment from either KZ or CCA of their relationship even in passing, then I suppose bhazard (the thread starter) or the mods could do something about it. 



majki84 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm following this thread for a few dozens of pages (and not only this site). Thanks to You all I could narrow my to buy list of Iems to just three: *KZ AS10, CCA C10 and CCA C16*. I need a pair for myself and one for my girlfriend.
> 
> ...





BadReligionPunk said:


> CCA C10 or KZ ZSN with mic for both. Both are metal and punk approved. ZSN Is a bit more comfortable to me and is lighter. It is more energetic and lively then C10. Mids are more forward. Electric guitar sounds dope AF. ZSN has a very fun sound. C10 is more smooth and refined. Better stage and better separation. Cant go wrong with either.
> 
> AS10 and C16 I don't have so cant comment.





PhonoPhi said:


> CCA C10 is definitely the one to try - an amazing value (IMHO,) and may suite your music preferences.
> KZ Z7  -  if you find it at closer prices to CCA C10 (close relatives, the same drivers).
> KZ ZSN is also excellent for its price, and offers very nice fit and appearance.
> CCA C04, possibly, if you can get it below $14-15, to me it is an improved version of KZ ZSA.
> ...



Echo the recommendations on the CCA C10 and KZ ZSN. The C10 for you, the ZSN for your girlfriend.

For your requirements: music genres—check; sound signature from V-shaped with heavy bass to a more balanced, brighter and detailed sound—check; music source—check; usage (bus and bike and occasional listening )—check; comfort and isolation—check; mic and controls—check.

Additional notes:

1. Sound quality. Both KZ ZSN and CCA C10 are cousins, KZ and CCA being sister companies. At first glance they look quite similar and even more remarkable is that their base sound signature are similar at first listen. The C10 however is the more mature and refined, the ZSN more fun—more perky. The former is definitely the serious upgrade to the latter. The ZSN with mic could be had for ~$12  while the C10 also with mic for ~$28 from AliExpress; despite these budget prices one could say both reign supreme as regards fidelity of sound reproduction in their respective price ranges ($10>$20 for ZSN, $$26>$35 for C10).

2. Comfort. The ZSN is the most comfortable in-ears I have, and I have small ears, so perfect for your girlfriend. The C10, on the other hand, has a shorter, thicker nozzle with a different projection angle from that of the ZSN. So for those with relatively small ears the C10 might pose some problems as regards comfort and fit.

3. Isolation. Both in-ears attenuate external ambient sound to a certain degree, but commuting by bus might necessitate the use of foam tips. I use slow-rebound ball-shaped wide-bore foam tips for both.

4. Listening fatigue and long-term ear damage. The change from V-shaped to balanced, with mids and lower treble more forward as they are in the C10 and especially ZSN, resulting in a brighter presentation of your music, might induce listening fatigue but then we are of course aware of the adaptive capabilities of the human ears. Even with foam ear tips, bus commutes along noisy busy streets likewise might create the tendency to listen at higher volume levels, and with both your preferred music genres this might be a note for concern.

5. LG V30 as music source. The C10 would give a Wow! kind of sound when paired with the LG V30 but its given impedance of 32 Ohms won't be enough, even taking into account the effect of the cable, to trigger the V30’s Advanced or Quad DAC HiFi mode. Here are some tricks to do that:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/music-apps-tips-and-tricks-for-the-lg-v30.868978/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lg-v20-sound-quality.816024/page-175#post-13534071



Podster said:


> So the Postman came today and my KZ's looked at me and in that heavy Latin (Antonia Banderas) voice said "Let's Play"
> 
> 
> 
> And so they have



Ahoy there, Podster! Quite a nice bunch’a cables you have! Would you say those TRN cables fit the ZS6 perfectly? As in really secure snug? Looking for replacement for my turning-green KZ SPC cables. I like the gold ones, though. I wonder if those are the ones measured by hakuzen to have the least DC resistance? They're from AliExpress, right? If so, could you provide the links, please? Thanks!


----------



## hakuzen

SybilLance said:


> Ahoy there, Podster! Quite a nice bunch’a cables you have! Would you say those TRN cables fit the ZS6 perfectly? As in really secure snug? Looking for replacement for my turning-green KZ SPC cables. I like the gold ones, though. I wonder if those are the ones measured by hakuzen to have the least DC resistance? They're from AliExpress, right? If so, could you provide the links, please? Thanks!


yes, measured some of them.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853 (cables 56)
very good conductivity thick wire for the price. but jacks and solder work aren't that good (uneven resistance).
gold version, the wire looks nice, but the jack doesn't. black version hides jack's cheap appearance better, and the combination of black and silver creates a nice shiny grey result.


----------



## eclein

Hey folks whats the best thing to use for dirty volume pot static. My ibasso D14 amp/dac has developed a noisy right side when the volume pot is moved. Is there a good spray product I can shoot in around the pot to try and clear out any filth in there?

My C16 iems love this amp and its a couple years old but still awesome!


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> Hey folks whats the best thing to use for dirty volume pot static. My ibasso D14 amp/dac has developed a noisy right side when the volume pot is moved. Is there a good spray product I can shoot in around the pot to try and clear out any filth in there?
> 
> My C16 iems love this amp and its a couple years old but still awesome!



I use DeoxIT (awesome stuff), or CRC Electronic Contact Cleaner.

Spray pot with the cleaner.
Rotate pot several times.
Repeat steps 1 and 2 at least one more time (more if necessary)
Let pot dry *completely*.
After it’s all cleaned, I add some dielectric grease if possible. Don’t use any other lubricant besides dielectric grease.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Podster (Feb 7, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Ahoy there, Podster! Quite a nice bunch’a cables you have! Would you say those TRN cables fit the ZS6 perfectly? As in really secure snug? Looking for replacement for my turning-green KZ SPC cables. I like the gold ones, though. I wonder if those are the ones measured by hakuzen to have the least DC resistance? They're from AliExpress, right? If so, could you provide the links, please? Thanks!



Howdy Syb, good comments/observations What I can tell you about these $8 TRN cables is that they IMO are nice for the price but as @hakuzen says they are not stellar in build but good heavy wire and sheath. I've tested all mine and they sound great as well as look appropriate on my KZ's. As far as fit all have connected well and held but the male connectors do not seat completely on all models or get full penetration but they do secure well even with some of the housing protruding as in this photo. Look at how far this cable sticks out on the ZS6 as opposed to the insertion depth on the ZS4 and how my older bronze cable inserts on the ZS6. Even on the ZS4 the ear tip side still has a little exposure but face plate side is flush.






All in all for $8 each they are a nice cable and a worthy upgrade to these $25 to $45 KZ's (once again just Pods opinion and you know what they say about those) As mentioned and everyone by now knows I do no measurements or anything scientific to plead my cases so best case would be to just order one and try it as I spend twice this much for breakfast on most days So I did get these from Jim on AliEx and 5 pairs basically cost as much as a pair of ZS6's. Like I said I have tested all of them and both the SE and balanced sounded excellent on both my ES100 and Opus # 1. Here's the link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...691.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.c4554c4dQDCcD0

As a final note I still love my bronze cables especially for their length but still look a little anemic compared to these fatter TRN's As usual I'm never sure if I've been any help in your decision making but I just try and tell it like I hear it


----------



## eclein

Thanks Slater...Massdrop has the T3s from Tin on drop


----------



## Podster

eclein said:


> Thanks Slater...Massdrop has the T3s from Tin on drop



Yes and best I can tell the cable outside of connectors looks very much like the TRN cables I got from Jim.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tin-au...ontent=1549526360304.483016966090025386557703


----------



## randomnin

How do you keep triple flanges from getting stuck inside ears? ZS4 has a nozzle lip, but it still doesn't work 100% of times. Using an eartip with a smaller diameter is an option, those that are meant for Westones from AliExpress can be pushed on the nozzle with some effort and don't fall off, but are not as soft as the ones with an average diameter (which, luckily, are also the cheapest available). I seem to remember someone mentioning using some sort of nail product as a nonpermanent adhesive, but I don't recall what that was exactly. Would a small strip of a double-sided adhesive tape work? Or are there better options?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

randomnin said:


> How do you keep triple flanges from getting stuck inside ears? ZS4 has a nozzle lip, but it still doesn't work 100% of times. Using an eartip with a smaller diameter is an option, those that are meant for Westones from AliExpress can be pushed on the nozzle with some effort and don't fall off, but are not as soft as the ones with an average diameter (which, luckily, are also the cheapest available). I seem to remember someone mentioning using some sort of nail product as a nonpermanent adhesive, but I don't recall what that was exactly. Would a small strip of a double-sided adhesive tape work? Or are there better options?


I use hairspray for my motorcycle handgrips.  If they work for that that might be a option for nozzles too.  Best thing is the seal is still easily broken.


----------



## Slater (Feb 7, 2019)

randomnin said:


> How do you keep triple flanges from getting stuck inside ears? ZS4 has a nozzle lip, but it still doesn't work 100% of times. Using an eartip with a smaller diameter is an option, those that are meant for Westones from AliExpress can be pushed on the nozzle with some effort and don't fall off, but are not as soft as the ones with an average diameter (which, luckily, are also the cheapest available). I seem to remember someone mentioning using some sort of nail product as a nonpermanent adhesive, but I don't recall what that was exactly. Would a small strip of a double-sided adhesive tape work? Or are there better options?



There’s 2 sizes of triple flange tips, a wide bore and a narrow bore.

The wide bore version has a wide center core. It would fit best on an IEM with a huge nozzle, such as ZS5, ZS6, ZS7, ZSN, etc.

The ZS3 & ZS4 have a smaller nozzle. For those models I would recommend the narrow bore triple flange tips. On the narrow bore triple flange tips, the center core is made for much smaller IEMs. They’ll fit tightly on the ZS4 and definitely won’t fall off.

Trying to use the wide bore triple flange tips on the ZS4 is going to be really loose. No amount of tricks like hairspray will help. If you get the narrow bore triple flange tips, they’ll fit very securely and you’ll be golden.

I can provide photos if it would be helpful.


----------



## sino8r

Slater said:


> There’s 2 sizes of triple flange tips, a wide bore and a narrow bore.
> 
> The wide bore version has a wide center core. It would fit best on an IEM with a huge nozzle, such as ZS5, ZS6, ZS7, ZSN, etc.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I can confirm this as well. On the AS10 and those types, they can come off. Mine usually pop off when I remove them or slip slightly and need to be repositioned further down. Not a problem on most iems though. Could try a small band of silicon tape although he probably won't be able to remove them again without alot of force..


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> There’s 2 sizes of triple flange tips, a wide bore and a narrow bore.
> 
> The wide bore version has a wide center core. It would fit best on an IEM with a huge nozzle, such as ZS5, ZS6, ZS7, ZSN, etc.
> 
> ...


I know, that's what I wrote in my post, too, but the narrow ones I have are harder than the wider ones and hurt my ears as a result. So I thought I have no choice but to think about an adhesive, but if you know better narrow tips, then, please, do share, I'd be happy to not get my fingers sticky. Ears even more so.


----------



## neo_styles

eclein said:


> Hey folks whats the best thing to use for dirty volume pot static. My ibasso D14 amp/dac has developed a noisy right side when the volume pot is moved. Is there a good spray product I can shoot in around the pot to try and clear out any filth in there?



This or something similar to it. Really don't need much. Most technically-correct way to apply is to spray a lint-free cloth and run it along any exposed crevices. Quick fix would be to put an absorbent below the pot to collect any runoff, spray the gaps, and "scrub" the volume pot back and forth about 5 times. Let it fully dry before applying any power to the unit.

When I was a tech for the military, we used to use KC Contact cleaner, but that stuff was about 100 USD per fluid ounce. Works amazing, but most likely overkill.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> I know, that's what I wrote in my post, too, but the narrow ones I have are harder than the wider ones and hurt my ears as a result. So I thought I have no choice but to think about an adhesive, but if you know better narrow tips, then, please, do share, I'd be happy to not get my fingers sticky. Ears even more so.



Gotcha.

I will dig through my tips and find my narrow bore triple flange tips. I definitely got them from Aliexpress.

They may be the clear ones you posted, or they could be different ones.

I’ll check and see which ones they are, how soft the silicone is, etc and I’ll let you know either way.


----------



## eclein

I’ve moved last year and some of my stuff either didnt make or its in a box somewhere, I actually found a can of contact cleaner in a drawer by accident today....ibasso D14 all fixed up.... I must have good karma working in the background, I opened a drawer with hifi stuff in it and BINGO!!...problem solved!


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> I’ve moved last year and some of my stuff either didnt make or its in a box somewhere, I actually found a can of contact cleaner in a drawer by accident today....ibasso D14 all fixed up.... I must have good karma working in the background, I opened a drawer with hifi stuff in it and BINGO!!...problem solved!



I love it when that happens!

You have no idea where something you need is, then all the sudden it’s right in front of you haha


----------



## eclein

....the adventure continues......I knew I had these somewhere BTW the BT receiver is very good and still works great!  LOL LOL


----------



## shockdoc

sino8r said:


> Yeah, I can confirm this as well. On the AS10 and those types, they can come off. Mine usually pop off when I remove them or slip slightly and need to be repositioned further down. Not a problem on most iems though. Could try a small band of silicon tape although he probably won't be able to remove them again without alot of force..



I've had a couple of IEM's over the years that had smooth flanges. What finally worked for me was to mix up some strong epoxy cement (I like JB Weld) and "tease" a small bead of cement around the entire circumference of the nozzle with a pin or something similar. I could even shape it a little bit, give it more of a "lip" by "molding it a little with the pin, as it hit it's initial set (wasn't runny anymore) and then, once it dried it held the tips MUCH better. One time I even got out my Dremel and carefully shaped the bead even more to hold the tips better. I can't be the only one who's done this.


----------



## shockdoc (Feb 8, 2019)

One thing I forgot to mention. It seems to help adhesion if you roughen up the surface of the nozzle a little bit right where you plan to add the epoxy. You can just use a nail file or very small piece of coarse sandpaper folded on it's edge to make a very narrow rough strip. But be sure to clean off any sanding/filing debris with a moist cloth and dry the plastic dry before you add the epoxy.


----------



## Leonccyiu (Feb 8, 2019)

I wanted to avoid this thread being about hi-res audio as it's a KZ thread but I'll respond to the previous posts which contain common criticisms of hi-res audio to clear up some misconceptions

Before I do so, I wanted to link to this post by a professor at Queen Mary university in London who demonstrates using graphs created using Matlab what I am talking about regarding the filtering and how much easier it is with higher sample rates.

https://intelligentsoundengineering...orem-a-little-knowledge-is-a-dangerous-thing/

Bob Stuart who is a co founder of Meridian and a well known expert in audio also has this to say

http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqa-philosophy/what-is-mqa/#




CoiL said:


> I only listen CD rips @ 16/44. 24-bit imho is pointless and it has been theoretically/mathematically proven in h-fi threads. kHz means lot more than bitrate.


 
I think you mean to say 44.1khz as a sampling rate has been proven to perfectly reproduce all frequencies by the sampling theorem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinc_filter

This wikipedia page is a good summary of why 44.1khz is not enough, because a perfect filter is only possible with an infinite delay, but our music has to play in real time, so the filters in our dac's are approximations, you may notice with Chord fpga equipment like the DAVE, there is some latency from the more powerful filters.




darmanastartes said:


> 16/44.1 FLAC was designed to exceed the limits of human hearing. Hi Res is pointless for listening, especially given how little dynamic range exists in the average modern recording.
> The quality of the headphones you use is much more important to fidelity than bitrate.



Hi-Res is about much more than dynamic range, not all modern recordings are pop music and plenty of past recordings exist with plenty of dynamic range.
The case for 24bit is harder to make than a higher sampling rate, but while the processing and editing take place in 24bit for more headroom, dither has to be applied to bring it down to 16bit, as to how much dither noise causes distortion is difficult to say. The processing/editing is a lossy process and while doing so at 32bit fp (has same accuracy as 24bit) or 64bit fp, there is still some loss hence why simply truncating the signal back to 16bit doesn't result in 16bit of dynamic range, and dither has to be applied.

16/44.1 was designed to fit an hour long concert recording on a 650mb disc




SybilLance said:


> Very interesting, particularly that portion where Leonccyiu says, as he did in a previous post, that steep low-pass filters give rise to ringing artifacts. I’m making a note to try to read more about this as I’m just too busy these days—I’m having my siesta at the moment, though.
> 
> As for that comparison from the link he provided, I would have hoped that was done at least through simple blind listening (I hope I don’t trigger some flags by mentioning it) to rule out bias of sighted foreknowledge.
> 
> ...



I'll respond in more detail via pm, I have come across the rtings link where each headphone is rated for soundstage which is interesting and the in-ears perform a lot worse. I wonder how we would all perform if we had to blind test our iems and cables.



LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> No, I rip my CD's to FLAC and they sound great. I see people here using Spotify, don't use Spotify if you want to enjoy audio quality, my wife uses Spotify and it sounds horrible, especially in combination with modern music, which sounds like it was recorded in mono. Use Tidal Hi-Fi instead for streaming.
> 
> Hi-Res audio only makes a subtle difference to me, in theory 44.1KHz at 16bit is more than you can hear. The low-pass filtering artifacts are a valid point though, otherwise you wouldn't be able to hear the difference between the filter settings on the FiiO X7 MK II, which I do.
> DSD is something else, SACD loses detail above 1KHz compared to redbook CD audio, the bitrate needs to be really high to match CD and then the frequencies below 1KHz get over-defined.
> ...



As stated above, although in theory 16/44.1 produces all the frequencies for human hearing and dither can be applied, in practice, the sinc filter which is a perfect brick wall filter required for sampling and reconstruction can only be approximated in the real world.

SACD or DSD64 does not lose detail above 1khz compared to redbook CD audio, what you mean is that sample rate has to be much higher than CD because 1 bit is much noisier than 16 bit so a much higher sample rate is required so that to extract 24bit from 0-20khz, the dither noise is shifted beyond 20khz. For DSD64 the noise starts to pile up just above 20khz hence why we have double and quad DSD.

DSD of all varieties sound a lot better to me than CD quality, a lot more natural and spacious, a wider soundstage.



puppyfi said:


> I have various HiRes music files in my collection over the years.
> I have the excellent Macy Gray Stripped as well as copies of Norah Jones Come Away With Me, Miles Davis Kind of Blue, etc etc in DSD, 24/196 format.
> But I always enjoy listening to CD Rip copy of Rolling Stones Blue & Lonesome, even though it's of poorer recording, much more than those HiRes music.
> Some CD Rip of good recording like Muddy Waters Folk Singers already sounds excellent even at 16/44.
> ...



It's like watching boring demo footage in 8k on the latest 8k tv's but you have a wide variety of blu-rays/dvds, content is important too of course.
A lot of Hi-Res music is classical which doesn't suit many people's tastes.




LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Agreed, the lowest bit in 16-bit audio equals -96dB, which is impossible to hear. More bits are useful when you are going to be applying effects to the audio that degrade the precision.
> 
> Higher frequencies mostly help to move the aliasing frequencies further up from the range of human hearing and eliminate the low-pass filter side-effects. I personally hardly hear anything above 15KHz anymore.
> 
> ...



Human hearing goes beyond 96db but there is dither, but there are other arguments for going beyond 16bit.
As stated above, SACD has a sample rate of 2.8mhz which reproduces all frequencies up to 20khz just as well if not better than redbook CD.



Apologies for going off topic on this KZ thread, but my point was to say that I don't believe CD quality flac is enough to properly assess a headphone especially for separation and placement although it can give you a good idea of how the headphone performs.

I now have the KZ ZSN which isn't fully run in but it should be enough.

Would I prefer to listen to 24/192 on my KZ ZSN or redbook on my much more expensive Sennheiser Open Back over-ears?
While it's much more ideal to listen to 24/192 on my Sennheiser, if I had to choose, I'll say that even taking the form factor into account, the single dynamic driver in my Sennheiser has more clarity especially in the mid-range, but I would choose to listen to 24/192 on my KZ ZSN than redbook on my Sennheiser HD579.


----------



## ronaldocapitoii

Slater said:


> You said the main issue (since you dropped it is sibilance), right?
> 
> Since you have nothing to lose, you can try taming the sibilance. It’s not going to make it sound like before it was dropped, but maybe you’ll get lucky and can still get some more use out of it.
> 
> ...



Hmmm... It's been a weird experience. I've been thinking and trying to boil the issue down, it seems to me that my ears were re-adjusting and there's also the fact that the immaculate sound I remembered came from FLAC files being played on a Fiio M9 (vastly superior to my old phone). Regarding my ears re-adjusting, when I finally got a hold of the ES4's again, I noticed cymbals and other high frequency sounds a lot easier and that the ZS6's treble while more pronounced, is still superior to the ES4's. I thought the ES4's treble was although weak was pretty okay. I now think that a lot of what I was thinking was due to the combination of the lower-quality music files I was playing on a lower-quality device (which I think is quite probably damaged) and my ears re-adjusting to earphones with livelier treble. My dad gave me his iPhone 6 Plus and it definitely sounds better than the Z3 now. Everything's crispy and separation is pretty good (until bass slams appear, they just drown out the other sounds to me.) I've even put back the silicone tips and the ZS6's are now pretty good after more burn-in. I'll definitely try out the micropore tape thing soon.


----------



## SybilLance

Podster said:


> Howdy Syb, good comments/observations What I can tell you about these $8 TRN cables is that they IMO are nice for the price but as @hakuzen says they are not stellar in build but good heavy wire and sheath. I've tested all mine and they sound great as well as look appropriate on my KZ's. As far as fit all have connected well and held but the male connectors do not seat completely on all models or get full penetration but they do secure well even with some of the housing protruding as in this photo. Look at how far this cable sticks out on the ZS6 as opposed to the insertion depth on the ZS4 and how my older bronze cable inserts on the ZS6. Even on the ZS4 the ear tip side still has a little exposure but face plate side is flush.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





hakuzen said:


> yes, measured some of them.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1785#post-13964853 (cables 56)
> very good conductivity thick wire for the price. but jacks and solder work aren't that good (uneven resistance).
> gold version, the wire looks nice, but the jack doesn't. black version hides jack's cheap appearance better, and the combination of black and silver creates a nice shiny grey result.



That's one detailed response/explanation, Podster, and i'm quite satisfied. Much appreciated. Already placed an order for the 8-core black and white cable you featured and that hakuzen recommended. Thanks again. Btw, I did a double-take at your tube amp. Very nice!  



Leonccyiu said:


> I wanted to avoid this thread being about hi-res audio as it's a KZ thread but I'll respond to the previous posts which contain common criticisms of hi-res audio to clear up some misconceptions
> 
> Before I do so, I wanted to link to this post by a professor at Queen Mary university in London who demonstrates using graphs created using Matlab what I am talking about regarding the filtering and how much easier it is with higher sample rates.
> 
> ...



Hmm...fair enough. As I've said, very interesting.



eclein said:


> ....the adventure continues......I knew I had these somewhere BTW the BT receiver is very good and still works great!  LOL LOL



Oh My! Those earbuds are like candy and really do look delicious! The orange eartips especially appear to be  very crunchy.


----------



## CoiL

Was fun with all of You KZ fans and hoarders... but I`m out... found myself perfect IEM 

Unsubscribed.


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## BadReligionPunk

D


Leonccyiu said:


> I wanted to avoid this thread being about hi-res audio as it's a KZ thread but I'll respond to the previous posts which contain common criticisms of hi-res audio to clear up some misconceptions
> 
> Before I do so, I wanted to link to this post by a professor at Queen Mary university in London who demonstrates using graphs created using Matlab what I am talking about regarding the filtering and how much easier it is with higher sample rates.
> 
> ...



All very well and good, but only about 1 in 35 people can tell the difference between 320 mp3 and FLAC. Nobody can tell the difference between FLAC and DSD, Redbook SACD ect. Blind testing volume matched tracks proves this.


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Was fun with all of You KZ fans and hoarders... but I`m out... found myself perfect IEM
> 
> Unsubscribed.



Glad you found your endgame CoiL!

We’ll miss your awesome KZ wood mods


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> D
> 
> 
> All very well and good, but only about 1 in 35 people can tell the difference between 320 mp3 and FLAC. Nobody can tell the difference between FLAC and DSD, Redbook SACD ect. Blind testing volume matched tracks proves this.



Neil Young can lol


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## PhonoPhi

CoiL said:


> Was fun with all of You KZ fans and hoarders... but I`m out... found myself perfect IEM
> 
> Unsubscribed.


Yes, we will miss you 
Let us know how long your perfection will last before a new IEM with an ideal graph will take its place


----------



## Podster

CoiL said:


> Was fun with all of You KZ fans and hoarders... but I`m out... found myself perfect IEM
> 
> Unsubscribed.



So you finally spent some money on something other than budget Chi-Fi? Hmm, guess I may not get an answer if you have un-sub'd However I'm glad you had fun hanging with all the cool kids


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## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> D
> 
> 
> All very well and good, but only about 1 in 35 people can tell the difference between 320 mp3 and FLAC. Nobody can tell the difference between FLAC and DSD, Redbook SACD ect. Blind testing volume matched tracks proves this.



Well don't forget Batman, he has exceptional hearing too I keep hearing Sony Bono singing "And the beat goes on, nana nana na, nana nana ne" I've got some 128 MP3's that can blow some engineers 384's out the water, I've found many times it's not the format but the one behind the board who can make of break a recording The main thing I know after 52 years in this hobby (First real rig, older brother sent me his hand me down Grundig Short Wave valve head unit with two two ways and I had a DIN cable built for my Dual 1019 W/Shure V15 when I was 10 years old) is that my dad can beat your dad up


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## CoiL (Feb 8, 2019)

Podster said:


> So you finally spent some money on something other than budget Chi-Fi? Hmm, guess I may not get an answer if you have un-sub'd However I'm glad you had fun hanging with all the cool kids





PhonoPhi said:


> Yes, we will miss you
> Let us know how long your perfection will last before a new IEM with an ideal graph will take its place


I wouldn`t call iBasso IT01, Havi B3Pro1, LZ A2S, Magaosi BK50 quite budget chi-fi (they were higher priced when I got them compared to now and for me anything over ~40€ is money which I care for) and I got KP for 126€ during winter sale, which isn`t huge jump compared to IT01.
Price isn`t what makes IEM good - it`s the persons knowledge and experience about different sound signatures and what to read out of FR graphs and knowing his/her hearing response, along with tip/IEM shell fit, amping, source gear, music preferences etc. But at certain price there will be noticeable SQ jump due to technology and tuning, materials etc. ,so at same time it will contribute to sound too, still.
Certainly there IS something better for my ears too but honestly, I have certain limit with money I put into sound gear and I won`t jump over it, especially when I have found IEM that even atm (un-burned-in) sounds just right to my ears and with my gear match in every aspect, I can`t (haven`t) currently find any faults in KP.

Anyway, was fun journey with You all and I`ll start embracing music now...
Over & out.

Ps, I can still receive notifications when someone mentions my username, otherwise I`m not reading this thread anymore.


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## Podster

Well I can't speak for knowledge as I'm a real Dum Dum at times however I do know the sound I like, guess budget is also different for most as for me when you have $4K iem's out in the wild even $200 seems to still be a budget iem! I will say since moving into some >$200 iem's I've found there to be significant sound improvement but once again if what you get sounds good within ones budget why temp ones self 

Cheers


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## shockdoc

Podster said:


> Well don't forget Batman, he has exceptional hearing too I keep hearing Sony Bono singing "And the beat goes on, nana nana na, nana nana ne" I've got some 128 MP3's that can blow some engineers 384's out the water, I've found many times it's not the format but the one behind the board who can make of break a recording The main thing I know after 52 years in this hobby (First real rig, older brother sent me his hand me down Grundig Short Wave valve head unit with two two ways and I had a DIN cable built for my Dual 1019 W/Shure V15 when I was 10 years old) is that my dad can beat your dad up




ABSOLUTELY agree. To my ears, it's MUCH more important HOW a track is recorded, how it was mic'd (thinking of Cowboy Junkies Trinity Session) and what post-recording voodoo may or may not have been done. Ultimately it's how much a recording sounds like REAL instruments/voices and whether it sounds like I am there in the studio or performance venue. Graphs really don't do much for me as far as telling me what my ears tell me when I listen closely to the music. It's been quite amazing to me to listen (with better gear) to old stuff, even from the 60's and 70's, that can, in some cases, sound far more "real" than some music today. *shrug*


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## Podster

Well IMHO graphs only show what the iem's are capable of but not what comes from any given recording, another reason I love my vinyl so much but just like digital it's in the mix and quality of the cutting itself for analog There goes Poddy probably pissing off the digital nation again LOL  

The ambiance of great vinyl can absolutely bring me to tears some times You know that Hallmark channel stuff LOL


----------



## Nimweth

My C16 arrived today. I have to say it is getting more difficult to discern improvements since I have recently acquired the V2 single DD, the CCA C10, and the ****, in each case I feel there has been an advance in quality. The improvements are now becoming smaller as the quality increases. However after a few hours burn in I feel the C16 is clearer and more detailed than the C10, but it's a closer-run thing in comparison with the **** especially since I replaced the rather ordinary MMCX cable with an 8 core OCC one, there was a leap in resolution. I'm going to need some more time but I must say I'm liking the BA bass, very clean and textured.


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## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Nimweth said:


> My C16 arrived today. I have to say it is getting more difficult to discern improvements since I have recently acquired the V2 single DD, the CCA C10, and the ****, in each case I feel there has been an advance in quality. The improvements are now becoming smaller as the quality increases. However after a few hours burn in I feel the C16 is clearer and more detailed than the C10, but it's a closer-run thing in comparison with the **** especially since I replaced the rather ordinary MMCX cable with an 8 core OCC one, there was a leap in resolution. I'm going to need some more time but I must say I'm liking the BA bass, very clean and textured.



Very interesting, I'm waiting for the **** and C16, keep us posted. Which cable did you get for the ****?


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## eclein (Feb 8, 2019)

I’m always pleased when folks like/hear new stuff as I did, and being an early buyer and posting about its sound wasn’t a total gaff!
Its risky coming out and saying “shucks this sounds neato” early on......phew! LOL 

Another spinfit saves the day story as my pita BA10s now fit snuggly in my ears and sound neato too!

I’m considering thinning my herd and saving for new ibasso DAP coming in April, do you guys want first look at my list when it’s compiled?
If so IM me with “list” as title and when I’m done building it you’ll be sent a copy....I’ll remind all before....Sleek,Senns,Sony, etc....

The BA10 is really extremely fun to listen to!


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## Nimweth

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Very interesting, I'm waiting for the **** and C16, keep us posted. Which cable did you get for the ****?


This is the link for my cable:
https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Extension-Better-Replacement-Silver-MM2-5/dp/B07FYWLPHH


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## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Nimweth said:


> This is the link for my cable:
> https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Extension-Better-Replacement-Silver-MM2-5/dp/B07FYWLPHH



That is a really nice cable.


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## silverfishla

Nimweth said:


> My C16 arrived today. I have to say it is getting more difficult to discern improvements since I have recently acquired the V2 single DD, the CCA C10, and the ****, in each case I feel there has been an advance in quality. The improvements are now becoming smaller as the quality increases. However after a few hours burn in I feel the C16 is clearer and more detailed than the C10, but it's a closer-run thing in comparison with the **** especially since I replaced the rather ordinary MMCX cable with an 8 core OCC one, there was a leap in resolution. I'm going to need some more time but I must say I'm liking the BA bass, very clean and textured.


I love my CCA C16 and honestly can’t believe that people aren’t losing their crap over this one.  That jump in resolution makes these a must have, in my opinion.  They just get better and better the longer I listen to them.  They started out tight but have loosened up very nicely.  Amazing with 80’s synth pop.  Yazoo!!


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## HungryPanda

I must agree the KZ BA10 is awesome


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## Nimweth

silverfishla said:


> I love my CCA C16 and honestly can’t believe that people aren’t losing their **** over this one.  That jump in resolution makes these a must have, in my opinion.  They just get better and better the longer I listen to them.  They started out tight but have loosened up very nicely.  Amazing with 80’s synth pop.  Yazoo!!


That's interesting. At first I found the C16 a little bright and thought uh-oh! the 30095 harshness from the ZS10 and ZST etc. But that soon disappeared and after 10 hours the sound is opening up nicely. There's just so much detail and amazing layering. I'm truly hearing things I haven't heard before, even in really familiar music. I love synth pop, I will try "November, November" by Auto da Fe. Do you know that one?


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## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> I must agree the KZ BA10 is awesome


You forgot expensive too.


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## PhonoPhi

HungryPanda said:


> I must agree the KZ BA10 is awesome


Very true!
Got mine today, the fit was nice (the experience of fitting ZS10 with wide shallow tips paid off!).
So far, pretty close to AS10, but just few hours.


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## HungryPanda

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You forgot expensive too.


Not in the scheme of things it is no "Solaris"


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## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You forgot expensive too.


Under $55 US (E-bay).


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## BadReligionPunk

silverfishla said:


> I love my CCA C16 and honestly can’t believe that people aren’t losing their **** over this one.  That jump in resolution makes these a must have, in my opinion.  They just get better and better the longer I listen to them.  They started out tight but have loosened up very nicely.  Amazing with 80’s synth pop.  Yazoo!!


I really hate when people say crap like this. It makes me want to buy stuff that I had not planned on. Now I want a C16. Like really really bad. Screw you man! 

BTW been getting into Outrun music lately. Great for fans of the 80's videogames and action movies, and great driving/motorcycle music.


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## B9Scrambler

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You forgot expensive too.



You get what you pay for


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## Nimweth

silverfishla said:


> I love my CCA C16 and honestly can’t believe that people aren’t losing their **** over this one.  That jump in resolution makes these a must have, in my opinion.  They just get better and better the longer I listen to them.  They started out tight but have loosened up very nicely.  Amazing with 80’s synth po





silverfishla said:


> I love my CCA C16 and honestly can’t believe that people aren’t losing their **** over this one.  That jump in resolution makes these a must have, in my opinion.  They just get better and better the longer I listen to them.  They started out tight but have loosened up very nicely.  Amazing with 80’s synth pop.  Yazoo!!


Here is the link to the Auto fa Fe track


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## PhonoPhi

B9Scrambler said:


> You get what you pay for


Subtracting the hype and with the correlation for the law of diminished returns


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## purplesun (Feb 8, 2019)

Been re-listening to Tori Amos' Little Earthquake on the KZ AS06 (CD-rips). This 27-year-old album has never sounded better!
Amazing production work on a cheap IEM in 2019; I would've never believed it.


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## silverfishla

Nimweth said:


> Here is the link to the Auto fa Fe track



Thanks for that one!  Never heard it before.


Back at ya!


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## drey101

Nimweth said:


> My C16 arrived today. I have to say it is getting more difficult to discern improvements since I have recently acquired the V2 single DD, the CCA C10, and the ****, in each case I feel there has been an advance in quality. The improvements are now becoming smaller as the quality increases. However after a few hours burn in I feel the C16 is clearer and more detailed than the C10, but it's a closer-run thing in comparison with the **** especially since I replaced the rather ordinary MMCX cable with an 8 core OCC one, there was a leap in resolution. I'm going to need some more time but I must say I'm liking the BA bass, very clean and textured.


I have the same problem! Haha, I just received my **** and Crescent last night, and I tried to do a short listen between them and all I can say for sure is that I like both of them. I put my **** on a 6 core cable from the banned brand (only mmcx I had lyjng around that was straight down) and left it to burn in using Cascade then headed to bed with the Crescent in my ears to sleep with. Will take a few days to try and discern the differences between them.


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## eclein

Panda mentioned “Solaris” a few back...do you guys think if you heard them and C16s to compare that the sound would be significantly better with “Solaris” as to justify the price difference.
Don’t get me wrong, if I had the cash I’d be using them or similar Presently!
The fun in the hobby is trying new stuff I think.


----------



## earache

eclein said:


> Panda mentioned “Solaris” a few back...do you guys think if you heard them and C16s to compare that the sound would be significantly better with “Solaris” as to justify the price difference.
> Don’t get me wrong, if I had the cash I’d be using them or similar Presently!
> The fun in the hobby is trying new stuff I think.



Greatest question ever!


----------



## DynamicEars

drey101 said:


> I have the same problem! Haha, I just received my **** and Crescent last night, and I tried to do a short listen between them and all I can say for sure is that I like both of them. I put my **** on a 6 core cable from the banned brand (only mmcx I had lyjng around that was straight down) and left it to burn in using Cascade then headed to bed with the Crescent in my ears to sleep with. Will take a few days to try and discern the differences between them.



I want to know the comparison between **** and  Moondrop Crescent too, as they are about the same price, which one is better.


----------



## voicemaster

eclein said:


> Panda mentioned “Solaris” a few back...do you guys think if you heard them and C16s to compare that the sound would be significantly better with “Solaris” as to justify the price difference.
> Don’t get me wrong, if I had the cash I’d be using them or similar Presently!
> The fun in the hobby is trying new stuff I think.



That's like a taboo question here in head-fi. Some  people will say the solaris sounds more "mature" because they can't accept or justified the money that they spent on such an expensive iem to be beaten or rivaled by such cheap iem.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Going back in time to yet another model that has stopped receiving attention; ED16. They have a really well done sound stage. Been running them with liquid d'n'b tracks tonight and effects float all over the place. They really do feel like a colder, more balanced ZSR. Not a fan of the ergonomics but I know I'm in the minority there. Overall pretty good stuff


----------



## pbui44

Nimweth said:


> Here is the link to the Auto fa Fe track




Man, I haven’t heard this one in forever!  Okay, here is one that I never heard, until the start of this decade!  If you previously never heard of them, be glad it’s the weekend, because they made a bunch of albums!


----------



## eclein

Guys and Gals should I delete my post asking “the” question?

The ED16 is one I don’t have....is it a like “a must have”?


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## Slater (Feb 8, 2019)

eclein said:


> Guys and Gals should I delete my post asking “the” question?
> 
> The ED16 is one I don’t have....is it a like “a must have”?



What other IEMs do you have?

Are you asking from a KZ collector’s standpoint, or an everyday actual use standpoint?

Depending on what else you have, it’s likely to just be a sidegrade not an upgrade.

If all you have is a bunch of $2 QKZ stuff, then I’d say just about anything is an upgrade to that. But if you have some halfway decent budget IEMs already, it would probably be redundant.

_Edit: I checked your profile, and you have a lot of nice gear friend. I think there are much better offerings from KZ available, depending on your sonic preferences._


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## eclein

I meant was it special like ZS5 (V1) or something. I'll pass..thanks dude!!


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## Slater (Feb 8, 2019)

eclein said:


> I meant was it special like ZS5 (V1) or something. I'll pass..thanks dude!!



Nah. I think from a collectible standpoint, it’s kind of cool that they were the ED16 model, despite saying “ZS7” right on them. Especially, when there is now a real ZS7, that’s totally different (and the true successor to the ZS6).

But other than the sheer novelty of that little nomenclature flubb up, the current ZS7 (or even ZSN) is a much better IEM.

Be aware that I don’t have the ZS10, AS06, AS10, BA10, or any of the CCA models. So it’s possible that 1 of those are better. But I am extremely impressed and totally happy with the ZS7 (for the genres I listen to).


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 9, 2019)

eclein said:


> Another spinfit saves the day story as my pita BA10s now fit snuggly in my ears and sound neato too!
> 
> The BA10 is really extremely fun to listen to!



Definitely agree!

My BA10 has steadily grown on me since my initial review. I originally gave them 4.25 stars but I think I should raise it to 4.50 stars (still taking half a star off for ergonomics for the general population but mine are very comfortable). 

Coming from the ZS6 I surely needed to adjust to the BA10's warmer presentation but I discovered that the main reason an adjustment was necessary for me in the first place was because during my review period I coupled the BA10 (highly detailed with a relatively warm sound signature) with my Fiio X3 (0.3Ω) which also leans towards a warm and smooth presentation (Wolfson WM8740 DAC). The end result is plenty of detail but VERY laid back.  

Recently, I've paired the BA10 with my Cowon Plenue (0.5Ω) and the end result is a more engaging  presentation. The BA10 is quickly becoming the set I pick up more and more. The BA10 was occasionally "peaky" with my smartphone and laid back on the Fiio but they're near perfect with the Cowon Plenue.....can't put 'em down. The only thing that my ZS6 has over the BA10 is soundstage DEPTH and treble extension but the BA10 has the ZS6 dead-to-rights on bass definition and midrange delivery. Can't pick a favorite between the two.

In short, the ZS6 is the "V" signature champ for me while the BA10 is the "balanced" signature champ. The BQEYZ KC2 ($50+/-) is a fantastic balanced signature but the BA10 ($70+/-) affords a similar sound signature that brings more gravitas to the low end when it's called for. You never feel like reaching for the EQ because the BA10 delivers the goods when the song/track requires low end delivery, regardless of genre. 

That's ironic because the BQEYZ has a fine dynamic driver for the low end but the BA10's balanced armature dishes out a cleaner, deeper presentation. 

The BA10 bass reproduction is top notch for a balanced armature.

TOP NOTCH!

The C16 has two of the BA10's low end balanced armatures per side so I am curious about the low end definition.

Anyway...

No bloat. 
No BS. 
Low end delivery is clean and nimble enough for metal, classical and EDM.







Truthfully, I grimaced when KZ jumped from the $20 bracket (ZST) to the $50 bracket (ZS6) but I adore the ZS6. I grimaced again when they jumped from $50 (ZS6) to $85 (BA10) but I love the BA10 equally. I don't think I'll be able to resist the C16 @ $100.




By the way, if you want to enjoy your BA10 trouble free then order these silicone earhooks to keep them in place. Not all ear hooks are equal but I can vouch that these ear hooks grip the cable better than most so you don't need to constantly adjust and readjust. Your BA10 should stay firmly in place with these and a grippy eartip.

https://www.amazon.com/Cosmos-Remov...Mwebp_QL65&keywords=cosmo+silicone+ear+hooks#


----------



## eclein

Awesome idea about the hooks! Thanks!!

Doc awhile back, before purchase of C16, I posted about how the BA10 really nailed it with low end equaling a dynamic to me. I went on to say my hope was that they’d keep it up with any other all BA configuration they had coming. Sorry to say Doc but your probably going to want them, both, as its the same or better with the C16s and the “on call” nature so to speak like the BA10. 

C10 and C16 have no flaws that I can find...honestly its put CCA permanently on my list of awesome offerings, TRN is another, thats why I asked the question about a totl iem priced very high....etc....


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## Slater (Feb 8, 2019)

Does anyone here have the KZ Apple lightning SPC upgrade cable?

They’re now available not only in 0.75mm 2-pin, but also mmcx and even ZSN-style connectors.

All for $11.

I was thinking about getting one. But I do realize that an alternative would be to use the genuine Apple dongle adapter with a regular 3.5mm cable. I’m not sure if there would be a sound difference between the genuine Apple dongle and the KZ lightning version.

Or, I could just forget the lighting business, and keep using my 3.5mm jack (as I have an iPhone SE; the last iPhone with the audio jack).

Opinions, thoughts?


----------



## DynamicEars

eclein said:


> Awesome idea about the hooks! Thanks!!
> 
> Doc awhile back, before purchase of C16, I posted about how the BA10 really nailed it with low end equaling a dynamic to me. I went on to say my hope was that they’d keep it up with any other all BA configuration they had coming. Sorry to say Doc but your probably going to want them, both, as its the same or better with the C16s and the “on call” nature so to speak like the BA10.
> 
> C10 and C16 have no flaws that I can find...honestly its put CCA permanently on my list of awesome offerings, TRN is another, thats why I asked the question about a totl iem priced very high....etc....



its like Toyota compared to BMW. everything is good, but once you drive a BMW, you can feel it smoothness, small micro details.

From value standpoint? of course chifi has much more value point
but For serious audiophiles, with decent budgets, they just want to take the best, put a side the price tags.

why do they cost so expensive? experiments, components (like CCA C16 has 8 drivers, but it is cheap self developed BAs), TOTL iems use knowles at least. or their own BAs like in Sony M9.
Developing components also not cheap, R&D department needs huge injection sum of money. Before they come out of warehouse, good quality control also needed for that branded ones.

Once i said, $10-50 increment in chifi can be very different results, but once you at $1000 and up TOTL, just a slight different mature sounds, or a bit perfection can cost hundreds of dollars.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> I know, that's what I wrote in my post, too, but the narrow ones I have are harder than the wider ones and hurt my ears as a result. So I thought I have no choice but to think about an adhesive, but if you know better narrow tips, then, please, do share, I'd be happy to not get my fingers sticky. Ears even more so.



Hey friend, I found my narrow bore triple flange tips.

They’re black, and soft silicone (not hard). I’d say they are about as soft as the new black KZ Starlines (not thinner, which makes them even softer and more compliant).

I definitely got them from Aliexpress, but I have no idea what seller.

If you search for “triple flange silicone”, you’ll see all of the different options. My baggie only had 3 pairs (ie 6pcs), and I see only a handful of sellers that sell 6pcs of black narrow bore triple flange tips. It has to be one of those sellers. I remember them being stupid cheap (like $2 tops).

Sorry I couldn’t be of more help. I normally hate triple flange tips, so I only have a few pairs of them. I have to cut off the top flange to even be able to use them.

Good luck!


----------



## indie89

As I announced, I did compare the zs7 and as10 in their on-stage-monitoring performance (at least in our rehearsal room). We use quite top-notch personal mixers (Allen&Heath me1), so DAC quality is not an issue.

And I LOVE the AS10. Even more than while 'just' listening to recordings. We play rock / singer-songwriter music and the audible details using the as10 are astonishing. The zs7 never reached this level of detail, though having more punch in the sub bass area (which is really not important for on-stage-monitoring).

Good thing is, that I bought both over German Amazon prime, so it was no problem to return the zs7 after having carried out the subjective comparison .

The 5ba are amazing (probably same thing with zs ba10, but I don't like their design, especially on stage). They supposedly can just be beaten by the c16, which are tempting for me but I experienced such an increase in quality already that I can probably stand the temptation. Especially considering the prices (50€ for as10 delivered from Germany, 85€ for c16 delivered from china).

If somebody has any questions about on-stage usage of the as10, feel free to ask .


----------



## BoZ29

indie89 said:


> As I announced, I did compare the zs7 and as10 in their on-stage-monitoring performance (at least in our rehearsal room). We use quite top-notch personal mixers (Allen&Heath me1), so DAC quality is not an issue.
> 
> And I LOVE the AS10. Even more than while 'just' listening to recordings. We play rock / singer-songwriter music and the audible details using the as10 are astonishing. The zs7 never reached this level of detail, though having more punch in the sub bass area (which is really not important for on-stage-monitoring).
> 
> ...


Hi, I was interested in the as10 but after seeing this I didn’t buy them.


----------



## Nimweth

silverfishla said:


> Thanks for that one!  Never heard it before
> Back at ya!


That's very 80s! Here's another one:


----------



## Nimweth

pbui44 said:


> Man, I haven’t heard this one in forever!  Okay, here is one that I never heard, until the start of this decade!  If you previously never heard of them, be glad it’s the weekend, because they made a bunch of albums!



Yes, I know them, their best track was "Wishful Thinking"


----------



## PhonoPhi

BoZ29 said:


> Hi, I was interested in the as10 but after seeing this I didn’t buy them.



There are different tastes, of course, but making such reviews is beyond ridiculous, in my opinion.
Especially "the recording".

My personal hard learned experience that listening "to the curves" and opinionated reviewers is the worst one can do in this hobby.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> There are different tastes, of course, but making such reviews is beyond ridiculous, in my opinion..


I once had a loud debate with a partially-deaf "audiophile" over his perfect power amplifier (I can't remember which) showing me pages of current, voltage, slew rate test charts from Stereophile to prove his point, because he can no longer clearly hear what was actually being played. On the internet, we are all completely deaf to what each other are hearing. So what hope do we have!?

True story


----------



## Tooros

Hi All. I’m getting caught up in the spiral of the big Chinese online store. I want to get some KZ ZS7 but I like to get a spare cable or two (I’m one of the unfortunate types who cause cables to stiffen over time - who knows what I’m made of!  )

I’m looking for two pin upgrades and many vendors specify ‘ for KZ .... ‘ but some are 0.78mm and some 0.75mm.

Can anyone help me by confirming pin size for ZS7? I assumed it was 0.75mm but want to be 100% sure. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Chs177

Tooros said:


> Can anyone help me by confirming pin size for ZS7? I assumed it was 0.75mm but want to be 100% sure. Thanks in advance.


Yes, it is 0.75 mm. You could use any KZ cables with "a pin".


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> Going back in time to yet another model that has stopped receiving attention; ED16. They have a really well done sound stage. Been running them with liquid d'n'b tracks tonight and effects float all over the place. They really do feel like a colder, more balanced ZSR. Not a fan of the ergonomics but I know I'm in the minority there. Overall pretty good stuff



I love mine . The shell fits me perfectly.  I had to get rid od the cable and am using the cable from my husband's ZSA. It has the angled connector that is smaller than the regular ones.  I also had to use Spinfit tips...the first pair I used them on.




eclein said:


> I meant was it special like ZS5 (V1) or something. I'll pass..thanks dude!!



I think they are special but I don't have a ZS5...neither version.


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> I love mine . The shell fits me perfectly.  I had to get rid od the cable and am using the cable from my husband's ZSA. It has the angled connector that is smaller than the regular ones.  I also had to use Spinfit tips...the first pair I used them on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been using the ZSA cable too. Went with Spintfits for a while but ended up swapping to some long bi-flange set instead. This is one of the few iems I've had to resort to that with. My ears really seem to dislike these vertical style housings


----------



## Drake_Mallard (Feb 9, 2019)

BoZ29 said:


> Hi, I was interested in the as10 but after seeing this I didn’t buy them.



Watched some of his other IEM reviews; seems he does not like anything that is not neutral. His reviews are heavily opinionated and he attacks others and other reviewers for liking what he doesn't like. His BGVP DMG "review" is especially atrocious.


----------



## Slater

Drake_Mallard said:


> Watched some of his other IEM reviews; seems he does not like anything that is not neutral. His reviews are heavily opinionated and he attacks others and other reviewers for liking what he doesn't like. His BGVP DMG "review" is especially atrocious.



This is why I take reviews with a grain of salt. Opinions are like arseholes, everybody’s got one. No one knows your ears and your taste better than you.


----------



## randomnin

Some questions to regular ZS4 users. Does anyone else have an upper glossy layer slowly peeling off of the casing? It's making the 'hybrid technology' text fade, too. I hope it doesn't slowly erode till there's a hole in the plastic or anything.
On a similar note, does grinding off the back panel text or dissolving the plastic to do so increase the sound leak noticeably? How thick the plastic is? Tried to colour it over with a marker, but it just rubs off after a few uses, so I'll have to use the more radical measures if there are no glaring side effects.

Secondly, I'm curious as to what EQ settings you use with ZS4, if any. Please share.


Spoiler: eq pic











Would have increased 5-9kHz range, not just 8kHz, if Poweramp had such fine gradation. Also, I'm still on the fence about 16kHz, might be too hot, but that's generally it.


----------



## basshead11

ok my zs7 just arrived and with 2 hours of burn in i can say:

*directly compared with my trn v80. A/B comparison:
the firs thing i noticed: NO sibilance on ZS7
about sibilance: is a lot more pronounced on v80. zs7 controls it A LOT better. both are very similar in terms of sharpness on treble.
about soundstage: i think v80 do it NOTICIABELY better but zs7 still good. this surprises me a lot. i think this confirms the v80 as a soundstage killer.
about bass: zs7 have more dynamic bass (more punchy and subbass extension in general) in the other hand, v80 bass is flat but more textured (better detail). Bass is more fun on zs7 but better detailed on v80.
about mids: very similar in both models. a little forward in upper mids in both models. In zs7 mids feels better, maybe because zs7 have better controled upper-mids (like treble in general)

also i have to say i do this comparison using zs7 stock cable and the v80 with a upgraded silver kz cable (because this one doesnt fit on kz zs7)

final apreciation about comparison: v80 still wins on soundstage and bass detail but i cant stand his sibilance. zs7 wins for me with fun bass and controled sibilance.


----------



## Slater (Feb 9, 2019)

randomnin said:


> Some questions to regular ZS4 users. Does anyone else have an upper glossy layer slowly peeling off of the casing? It's making the 'hybrid technology' text fade, too. I hope it doesn't slowly erode till there's a hole in the plastic or anything.
> On a similar note, does grinding off the back panel text or dissolving the plastic to do so increase the sound leak noticeably? How thick the plastic is? Tried to colour it over with a marker, but it just rubs off after a few uses, so I'll have to use the more radical measures if there are no glaring side effects.
> 
> Secondly, I'm curious as to what EQ settings you use with ZS4, if any. Please share.
> ...



The ZS4 (and other models) has a clear lacquer coating. Similar to clear coat on your car’s paint, or a clear top coat on women’s fingernails.

It doesn’t hurt anything. In fact, I remove that text on many of my KZs.

Don’t worry, you won’t wear a hole through the plastic itself.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Slater said:


> Does anyone here have the KZ Apple lightning SPC upgrade cable?
> 
> They’re now available not only in 0.75mm 2-pin, but also mmcx and even ZSN-style connectors.
> 
> ...


I purchased one with MMCX connectors.  I didn't notice a difference in sound quality, moreso just convenience of not having to worry about remembering the dongle or not.  But ever since I purhcased the ES100, I haven't really touched it.


----------



## eclein

I got a present from an old friend Alex who makes high end custom cables for the audiophile/hobbyist. They brought out a new IEM cable so he sent me one to add to my collection of his stuff which always blows me away. 
I never knew cables could change the sound so much.....KZ ZS5 V1, CCA C10 & 16 all had marketly significant upgraded sound with the cable he sent me.

 
I’d never have cash for these they are the highest of high end stuff so I wanted to say...Thanks Alex!!


----------



## silverfishla

BadReligionPunk said:


> I really hate when people say crap like this. It makes me want to buy stuff that I had not planned on. Now I want a C16. Like really really bad. Screw you man!
> 
> BTW been getting into Outrun music lately. Great for fans of the 80's videogames and action movies, and great driving/motorcycle music.



You will want these then, because the Clash remasters sounds great on these.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

silverfishla said:


> You will want these then, because the Clash remasters sounds great on these.


Yea I know. They sound great on the C10 too. I can only imagine how good c16 sounds.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone played around with the different ZSN's and cables? I'm using the black's cable on the purple ZSN and it's definitely different. I think I still prefer the stock black ZSN over this combo. Something is different... but maybe things will seem better over time.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

eclein said:


> Guys and Gals should I delete my post asking “the” question?
> 
> The ED16 is one I don’t have....is it a like “a must have”?


No. Don't bother. I have one. It's okay, it's not bad...


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone played around with the different ZSN's and cables? I'm using the black's cable on the purple ZSN and it's definitely different. I think I still prefer the stock black ZSN over this combo. Something is different... but maybe things will seem better over time.



I do hear a slight difference in mine pairs. But they all sound good. So I haven’t worried about it too much.

It could be psychological, because I’m _expecting_ to hear a difference. 

Or it could be a real actual difference (caused for example by differences in cable impedance, the larger rear vent holes in the purple pair, or the fact that my black pair’s front vents are totally blocked off)

Or it could be normal manufacturing variations (such as this pair had a big more glue than that pair, this pair has a little better soldering than that pair, etc).

But again, it is a very minor difference and not enough to worry about.


----------



## BoZ29 (Feb 9, 2019)

Drake_Mallard said:


> Watched some of his other IEM reviews; seems he does not like anything that is not neutral. His reviews are heavily opinionated and he attacks others and other reviewers for liking what he doesn't like. His BGVP DMG "review" is especially atrocious.


He likes neutral iems, just like me. So I think his opinion matters, but he is very critical about chi fi multi driver iems with extended highs. His recordings are maybe not totally correct, but it’s an indication of how the iems are sounding. In most cases I think he’s right, although the iems can easily be adjusted with some equalization or mods. It’s all about taste, but it’s hard for him to accept that people have different sound preferences.


----------



## Drake_Mallard

BoZ29 said:


> He likes neutral iems, just like me. So I think his opinion matters, but he is very critical about chi fi multi driver iems with extended highs. His recordings are maybe not totally correct, but it’s an indication of how the iems are sounding. In most cases I think he’s right, although the iems can easily be adjusted with some equalization or mods. It’s all about taste, but it’s hard for him to accept that people have different sound preferences.


It's one thing to be critical and not accepting other's sound preferences but it's another to outright call people idiots in a video review.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 9, 2019)

Slater said:


> Or it could be a real actual difference (caused for example by differences in cable impedance, the larger rear vent holes in the purple pair, or the fact that my black pair’s front vents are totally blocked off)
> 
> Or it could be normal manufacturing variations (such as this pair had a big more glue than that pair, this pair has a little better soldering than that pair, etc).
> 
> But again, it is a very minor difference and not enough to worry about.


I just got a minor electrocution from my purple ZSN with the black stock cable. It was like firecrackers exploding going from my Zishan Z1 all the way up the cable to the purple ZSN and a final explosion like fireworks when it hit the earpieces. It was really weird.

I said to myself, "What the heck?" And, quickly took them out of my ears.

Any idea what could have happened?

PS: The purple ZSN with the black stock cable sounds good. Real good. Like, why bother getting an upgrade?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 9, 2019)

BoZ29 said:


> He likes neutral iems, just like me. So I think his opinion matters, but he is very critical about chi fi multi driver iems with extended highs. His recordings are maybe not totally correct, but it’s an indication of how the iems are sounding. In most cases I think he’s right, although the iems can easily be adjusted with some equalization or mods. It’s all about taste, but it’s hard for him to accept that people have different sound preferences.



It feels a bit silly to discuss guys like him, but his video does not give an information what are his sources, etc.
(AS10 has a low impedance and is quite source-sensitive).

To use his "style" and "logic" - if he would be given a bunch of his style "recordings" of multi-BA IEMs, he would hardy distinguish one from another in blind tests


----------



## Drake_Mallard

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got electrocuted from my purple ZSN with the black stock cable. It was like firecrackers exploding going from my audio device all the way up the cable to the ZSN and a final explosion when it hit the earpieces. It was really weird. I said to myself, "What the heck?" And, took them out of my ears.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got a minor electrocution from my purple ZSN with the black stock cable. It was like firecrackers exploding going from my Zishan Z1 all the way up the cable to the purple ZSN and a final explosion like fireworks when it hit the earpieces. It was really weird.
> 
> I said to myself, "What the heck?" And, quickly took them out of my ears.
> 
> ...


These silver upgrade cables for the ZSN also gave me electric shocks. Could be just mine but I would recommend people who own the ZSN to stick with the included cable and steer clear of these.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got a minor electrocution from my purple ZSN with the black stock cable. It was like firecrackers exploding going from my Zishan Z1 all the way up the cable to the purple ZSN and a final explosion like fireworks when it hit the earpieces. It was really weird.
> 
> I said to myself, "What the heck?" And, quickly took them out of my ears.
> 
> ...



Yikes, I’ve never had that problem with the ZSN.

Were you by chance doing this at the time?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got a minor electrocution from my purple ZSN with the black stock cable. It was like firecrackers exploding going from my Zishan Z1 all the way up the cable to the purple ZSN and a final explosion like fireworks when it hit the earpieces. It was really weird.
> 
> I said to myself, "What the heck?" And, quickly took them out of my ears.
> 
> ...


You were not outside during an electrical storm listening to Ride the Lightning were you?


----------



## sino8r

I've heard you can get a mild electric shock from headphones via a short circuit or especially while charing in poorly grounded outlets. They are even rare instances of death but they are are in emerging countries with bad electrical grids. I'll occasionally get a shock while checking the status of a device while charging but it's just a static shock. Still scary when not expecting it lol


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Drake_Mallard said:


> These silver upgrade cables for the ZSN also gave me electric shocks. Could be just mine but I would recommend people who own the ZSN to stick with the included cable and steer clear of these.


I concur. I was using the black cable on the purple ZSN when it happened.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

sino8r said:


> I've heard you can get a mild electric shock from headphones via a short circuit or especially while charing in poorly grounded outlets.


I wonder what caused the short circuit electrical shock? The carpet in the public library I was in? The battery being low on juice? The black cable on the purple ZSN? Hmm.


----------



## sino8r

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I wonder what caused the short circuit electrical shock? The carpet in the public library I was in? The battery being low on juice? The black cable on the purple ZSN? Hmm.



Cold, dry climate combined with central heating is when I get notice shorts or static shocks. Down here in the southeast US, it's not winter for long and is only cold for 3 months. That's when I notice them the most. I would bet it's the carpet plus dry air. I only get them at work (carpeted) and at home on a large area rug in the living room. Makes sense to me.


----------



## eclein

This cable sounds unreal.......Cable & C16 = no levitation but WOW what an awesome sound!!
Man alive does it light up the 16s, and using it with amp/dac is cherry on top!
I spent all afternoon until now (9:25 pm) listening to what seems like every track on Spotify....lol..lol...what a bargain these music services turn out to be.
Gotta eat....good evening everybody!


----------



## EDG67

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No. Don't bother. I have one. It's okay, it's not bad...


I feel the same about my ed16, don;t use them much


----------



## 1clearhead

sino8r said:


> *Cold, dry climate combined with central heating is when I get notice shorts or static shocks.* Down here in the southeast US, it's not winter for long and is only cold for 3 months. That's when I notice them the most. I would bet it's the carpet plus dry air. I only get them at work (carpeted) and at home on a large area rug in the living room. Makes sense to me.


Yup!...That would do it!


----------



## sino8r

1clearhead said:


> Yup!...That would do it!



Yes, most definitely! It really gets me when I charge my Samsung Note 9. I use an aluminum case with a carbon fiber pattern so that definitely doesn't help. It scares me every time lol! Or should I say it's quite shocking?


----------



## eclein

sino8r said:


> it's quite shocking?



We have no lives...lol


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got a minor electrocution from my purple ZSN with the black stock cable. It was like firecrackers exploding going from my Zishan Z1 all the way up the cable to the purple ZSN and a final explosion like fireworks when it hit the earpieces. It was really weird.
> 
> I said to myself, "What the heck?" And, quickly took them out of my ears.
> 
> ...



You can say you've been electrified. Bring you extra "spark" to your listening enjoyment.


----------



## Nimweth

eclein said:


> This cable sounds unreal.......Cable & C16 = no levitation but WOW what an awesome sound!!
> Man alive does it light up the 16s, and using it with amp/dac is cherry on top!
> I spent all afternoon until now (9:25 pm) listening to what seems like every track on Spotify....lol..lol...what a bargain these music services turn out to be.
> Gotta eat....good evening everybody!


I'm really enjoying my C16s, the detail retrieval is astonishing. What cable are you using?


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## xinn47

EDG67 said:


> I feel the same about my ed16, don;t use them much



I remember when this thread was going CRAZY on those IEMs (same with its brother IEM, the ES4s). The ZSNs might have replaced them, but damn I still love mine


----------



## Sylmar

xinn47 said:


> I remember when this thread was going CRAZY on those IEMs (same with its brother IEM, the ES4s). The ZSNs might have replaced them, but damn I still love mine



Just ordered the ED16's as they were dirt cheap in a sale. If the highs are too piercing I'll experiment a bit with micropore tape on the nozzle or use the aucoustic foams of my ZS3 (kept these from the Slater mod) and use these within my Comply TX400's (with earwax guard).


----------



## BoZ29

Sylmar said:


> Just ordered the ED16's as they were dirt cheap in a sale. If the highs are too piercing I'll experiment a bit with micropore tape on the nozzle or use the aucoustic foams of my ZS3 (kept these from the Slater mod) and use these within my Comply TX400's (with earwax guard).


The ed16 is my edc for biking, running and checking guitar notes and chords. I use them with KZ Bluetooth cable. They need some equalization but this lightweight iems are bang for the buck.


----------



## eclein (Feb 10, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I'm really enjoying my C16s, the detail retrieval is astonishing. What cable are you using?



Wywires iem cable, an old friend actually started the company. They are apparently on sale for awhile....he’s been kind enough over the years replacing my systems cabling with his stuff and I’m not complaining.........I love his stuff-Alex Sventitsky, Wywires but I could never afford nice cabling like this living on social security disability.
I used to moderate Audio Circles headphone forum and thats how I know him.

Does anybody know if BQEYZ is bringing anything new out this year?
Or TRN... I enjoying the IM1S!
Good stuff Panda!!


----------



## BoZ29

eclein said:


> I got a present from an old friend Alex who makes high end custom cables for the audiophile/hobbyist. They brought out a new IEM cable so he sent me one to add to my collection of his stuff which always blows me away.
> I never knew cables could change the sound so much.....KZ ZS5 V1, CCA C10 & 16 all had marketly significant upgraded sound with the cable he sent me.
> 
> 
> I’d never have cash for these they are the highest of high end stuff so I wanted to say...Thanks Alex!!


Wow, WyWires is a huge name in hi end. You lucky guy!


----------



## Nimweth

eclein said:


> Wywires iem cable, an old friend actually started the company. They are apparently on sale for awhile....he’s been kind enough over the years replacing my systems cabling with his stuff and I’m not complaining.........I love his stuff-Alex Sventitsky, Wywires but I could never afford nice cabling like this living on social security disability.
> I used to moderate Audio Circles headphone forum and thats how I know him.
> 
> Does anybody know if BQEYZ is bringing anything new out this year?
> ...


OK, I have just swapped the stock cable on the C16 for the one which came with the V2 single DD, it's a good quality silver-plated one. There's more separation, better imaging and a little more width and depth to the soundstage. Result!


----------



## eclein

Cables can have extreme benefits to sound. I’m charging my ibasso D14 now so I can listen to my C16s with the new iem cable and use the amp to give them some oomph!


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> Does anybody know if BQEYZ is bringing anything new out this year?



Yes, they are working on some new stuff. But I don’t have any details.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yes, they are working on some new stuff. But I don’t have any details.



How much more new stuff do we need?


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> How much more new stuff do we need?



So true!

Although, they do make some good stuff. So I’m glad to see them working on new IEMs.


----------



## eclein

Same here Slater I look at certain brands closer based on past releases. So KZ, CCA, TRN, BQEYZ are some off the top here I will try TIN Audio T3 next....


----------



## Nimweth (Feb 10, 2019)

I have been listening to one of my favourite albums on the C16 and hearing things I never heard before. It's Accumulus by Matthew Clifford, an electronic tour de force I bought the CD album back in 1989. Here's the link to the first track... Enjoy!


----------



## eclein

Dude keep the bands coming, or send me a list. I need new music in my electronic genres, Entheogenic, Abakus,Shpongle, etc...Shpongle was my first find and I need more like it around it under and over it!


----------



## Deveraux

What is the better option for ZS5 v1? 

KZ 8 core https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Connector-Use-For-KZ-ZS4-ZS5/32944796351.html

Or TRN https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...hone-Upgrade-Cable-for-SE846/32931782166.html


----------



## EarlytoBed (Feb 10, 2019)

Hi, I have the CCA C10. My first iem's, so not to much to compare with, anywise, they sound quite good. I try the starline tips and not one of them fit into my ear canal, they pop up rigt away (little tiny ears).
I'm looking the t400 (4.9mm) small size (10.6mm) that Dsnuts mention but not sure if they fit well in the CCA (or if they'll fit into my ear.. not much to do until I put them).

For now I got an unknown tip (came with the phone.. don't remember which one) fits right but I think I can get something better (also they will not last forever).

Like you see the unknown tip is quite shorter than the starline (both small size).






And much wider too (this is good or a bad thing?)


----------



## Slater (Feb 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> BTW, here is my progress on the solution to the "green cable" problem.
> 
> Below is a pair of KZ 8 core cables generously donated by @Podster. It's hard to tell from the photos (poor lighting), but both cables were minty green with oxidation before I started. However, as you can see, 1 of the cables is now black.
> 
> ...



I wanted to provide an update on this project.

I made a significant breakthrough tonight, and have perfected a _scaled down_ method that can be done easily and cheaply. No expensive industrial dyes to source, and no ending up with enough dye to do 1,000 cables. Just a few simple items that you can buy at 2 local stores, and a few minutes of your time.

I am working on writing the How2 right now. It will be an easy step-by-step guide that most anyone can follow.

Here’s a sneak peek for your viewing pleasure...

"Gold" ie yellow cable:



Sexy blue cable for ZS7:



The trio I've done so far:



FYI, my method is based on the same method that professional cable manufacturers use to dye cables. They just do it on a larger scale and with different chemicals (ie the same basic way I originally did my 1st black cable).

Here’s my DIY dyed cable (bottom left) next to 2 other “professional” cables that were industrially dyed. Note that the TRN bi-color cable on the right is dyed yellow _before_ it's braided with the clear silver plated wires, hence why it looks a little different (lighter) than the other 2:



What colors will you be able to use? How about any of these (and even more colors which I don't own). You can even mix them to make custom colors. The sky is the limit.




Update - I just did 2 more (TRN 8-wire cables, instead of the KZ cables used previously).

Before (stock 50% black and 50% silver):


After (50% black and 50% ‘gold plated’):


Before (stock 50% yellow and 50% silver):


After (100% deep yellow):


As you can see from the below photo, you can adjust the intensity of the color. For both of the TRN cables, I used the same exact dye, but I varied the color from a ‘gold plated’ look on the left to an ‘intense yellow’ look on the right.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 11, 2019)

When is the next major Aliexpress sale? I can wait until 11/11 if I have to. 

It will give me time to give you updates on what I already own. It took me a year after purchase to start listening to the ES4 and ED16.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> When is the next major Aliexpress sale? I can wait until 11/11 if I have to.
> 
> It will give me time to give you updates on what I already own. It took me a year after purchase to start listening to the ES4 and ED16.



The next bonkers sale is the Anniversary sale. It’s usually around the end of March.


----------



## 1clearhead (Feb 11, 2019)

EarlytoBed said:


> Hi, I have the CCA C10. My first iem's, so not to much to compare with, anywise, they sound quite good. I try the starline tips and not one of them fit into my ear canal, they pop up rigt away (little tiny ears).
> I'm looking the t400 (4.9mm) small size (10.6mm) that Dsnuts mention but not sure if they fit well in the CCA (or if they'll fit into my ear.. not much to do until I put them).
> 
> For now I got an unknown tip (came with the phone.. don't remember which one) fits right but I think I can get something better (also they will not last forever).
> ...


Since you mentioned that these are your first IEM's...did you try wrapping the wires around your ears so that the ear tips won't pop out? This usually gives them a firm fit and keeps them from popping out from your inner ear.


----------



## assassin10000

EarlytoBed said:


> I'm looking the t400 (4.9mm) small size (10.6mm) that Dsnuts mention but not sure if they fit well in the CCA (or if they'll fit into my ear.. not much to do until I put them).
> 
> For now I got an unknown tip (came with the phone.. don't remember which one) fits right but I think I can get something better (also they will not last forever).
> 
> Like you see the unknown tip is quite shorter than the starline (both small size).



The Small T400 is longer than your unknown tip. 

9.6mm Top O.D. (top of the 'taper', just before it rounds over.)
11mm Base O.D. 
10.5mm Length


----------



## Nimweth (Feb 11, 2019)

EarlytoBed said:


> Hi, I have the CCA C10. My first iem's, so not to much to compare with, anywise, they sound quite good. I try the starline tips and not one of them fit into my ear canal, they pop up rigt away (little tiny ears).
> I'm looking the t400 (4.9mm) small size (10.6mm) that Dsnuts mention but not sure if they fit well in the CCA (or if they'll fit into my ear.. not much to do until I put them).
> 
> For now I got an unknown tip (came with the phone.. don't remember which one) fits right but I think I can get something better (also they will not last forever).
> ...


I think that's a good thing. I use Spiral Dots which are quite short and have a wide bore. They sound great and give a good seal.


----------



## Deveraux

Deveraux said:


> What is the better option for ZS5 v1?
> 
> KZ 8 core https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...Connector-Use-For-KZ-ZS4-ZS5/32944796351.html
> 
> Or TRN https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...hone-Upgrade-Cable-for-SE846/32931782166.html



Anybody please?


----------



## EarlytoBed (Feb 11, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> Since you mentioned that these are your first IEM's...did you try wrapping the wires around your ears so that the ear tips won't pop out? This usually gives them a firm fit and keeps them from popping out from your inner ear.



jejeje.. Yes 1clearhead! the earhook gives you a good clue, hard to put it in other way.



assassin10000 said:


> The Small T400 is longer than your unknown tip.
> 
> 9.6mm Top O.D. (top of the 'taper', just before it rounds over.)
> 11mm Base O.D.
> 10.5mm Length



I'm gonna compare the mesures, looks bigger but maybe the foam adapts to my ear canal.



Nimweth said:


> I think that's a good thing. I use Spiral Dots which are quite short and have a wide bore. They sound great and give a good seal.



Yes I hear about these.. a pair cost almost the same as the iem! (but are flat, pretty like my unknown tip so maybe..)


----------



## Slater (Feb 11, 2019)

EarlytoBed said:


> jejeje.. Yes 1clearhead! the earhook gives you a good clue, hard to put it in other way.



You’d be surprised what some people do


----------



## EarlytoBed

Slater said:


> You’d be surprised what some people do


----------



## HungryPanda

Deveraux said:


> Anybody please?


I have both of these cables and I prefer the TRN cable


----------



## Slater (Feb 11, 2019)

EarlytoBed said:


>



Yeah, I can’t remember where I found that image. Sadly, I think it was grabbed from a KZ ZST ‘review’!


----------



## EarlytoBed (Feb 11, 2019)

So.. CCA C10 will fit with *4.9mm *or *4.5mm *diameter tips?

Regards!



Slater said:


> Yeah, I can’t remem where I found that image. Sadly, I think it was grabbed from a KZ ZST ‘review’!



Maybe was distracted... a little bit!


----------



## reddistic

Just got my zs7. Need burn in time, but my first impression is I like my trn v80 more.Treble is piercing my ears on zs7 for now.


----------



## drey101

EarlytoBed said:


> So.. CCA C10 will fit with *4.9mm *or *4.5mm *diameter tips?
> 
> Regards!


I've used Spinfit CP 145 (4.5mm), New Bee Foam Tips (4.9mm), Final E Tips (tightest fit, so I assume smaller than Spinfits) on my CCA C10 before.  I forgot if I've tried the KZ Whirlwind tips, but that one might have been way too wide.


----------



## EarlytoBed

drey101 said:


> I've used Spinfit CP 145 (4.5mm), New Bee Foam Tips (4.9mm), Final E Tips (tightest fit, so I assume smaller than Spinfits) on my CCA C10 before.  I forgot if I've tried the KZ Whirlwind tips, but that one might have been way too wide.



Thanks! I'll take a look to these brands!


----------



## nxnje (Feb 11, 2019)

reddistic said:


> Just got my zs7. Need burn in time, but my first impression is I like my trn v80 more.Treble is piercing my ears on zs7 for now.



If treble is piercing on the zs7 (which i don't actually feel) how can you stand the super aggressive lower treble of the v80s?
I mean i like both but the zs7 is definitely warmer on the treble..
Anyway, burn-in will not be effective
People say BAs can't be burned as they do not benefit, and the dynamic driver in the ZS7 works on the lower region.
That being said, burn-in will not help imho if you feel the treble being too much for you (strange because they're alright in the treble).
Try using other tips or changing source.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> If treble is piercing on the zs7 (which i don't actually feel) how can you stand the super aggressive lower treble of the v80s?
> 
> ...Try using other tips or changing source.



+1 on the tips/source. I’d try some foam tips.

I too feel there’s no piercing treble on the ZS7 at all; it’s quite tame and unoffensive. Nothing like the ZS6.

Depending on the reddistic’s ear canal length and anatomy, perhaps it’s caused by an ear canal harmonic that he/she is especially sensitive to.

I agree though; to my ears the v80’s treble was much more energetic than the ZS7. But everyone’s ears are different.


----------



## Nimweth

eclein said:


> Dude keep the bands coming, or send me a list. I need new music in my electronic genres, Entheogenic, Abakus,Shpongle, etc...Shpongle was my first find and I need more like it around it under and over it!


Hi! I don't know shpongle, I'll have to check it out. Here's another that sounds amazing on the C16, the album is called Words of a Mountain, it's brilliant. Check out the other tracks, especially Wolves in the Urals and Words of Grace.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> +1 on the tips/source. I’d try some foam tips.
> 
> I too feel there’s no piercing treble on the ZS7 at all; it’s quite tame and unoffensive. Nothing like the ZS6.
> 
> ...



Just getting a chance of speaking about the ear canals, as my ears are different or that's what i feel at least. When i listen to my in ear headphones, the right ear is always more congested. Not a matter of source or iems, every iem is like that. It's like if the right ear loses some energy moreover in the upper and lower region, feeling a bit less punchy and airy/sparkling, losing some coherency and being a little congested, whether in the left ear everything is fine, all well separated and tons of detail when well reproduced.
Tried some tip rolling and the right ear canal is larger and i feel it's longer but when i get a good seal in both ears, the sound is different.. dunno how to solve this. Gonna try some foam tips but i'm afraid to lose some bass and treble which silicone tips really give me like paradise.


----------



## reddistic

nxnje said:


> If treble is piercing on the zs7 (which i don't actually feel) how can you stand the super aggressive lower treble of the v80s?
> I mean i like both but the zs7 is definitely warmer on the treble..
> Anyway, burn-in will not be effective
> People say BAs can't be burned as they do not benefit, and the dynamic driver in the ZS7 works on the lower region.
> ...





Slater said:


> +1 on the tips/source. I’d try some foam tips.
> 
> I too feel there’s no piercing treble on the ZS7 at all; it’s quite tame and unoffensive. Nothing like the ZS6.
> 
> ...



My wife told me exactly same as you two. She said V80 is piercing, zs7 has more balanced treble and full bass. I decided to go to doctor


----------



## BrunoC (Feb 11, 2019)

I actually find the V80 much more piercing than the ZS6. I just can't stand the V80's treble, even with foam tips and a warms source (E07K).

The ZS7 has no piercing effect at all IMO. Actually I think it's the best KZ.


----------



## Slater (Feb 11, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Just getting a chance of speaking about the ear canals, as my ears are different or that's what i feel at least. When i listen to my in ear headphones, the right ear is always more congested. Not a matter of source or iems, every iem is like that. It's like if the right ear loses some energy moreover in the upper and lower region, feeling a bit less punchy and airy/sparkling, losing some coherency and being a little congested, whether in the left ear everything is fine, all well separated and tons of detail when well reproduced.
> Tried some tip rolling and the right ear canal is larger and i feel it's longer but when i get a good seal in both ears, the sound is different.. dunno how to solve this. Gonna try some foam tips but i'm afraid to lose some bass and treble which silicone tips really give me like paradise.



I feel for you friend.

My right ear canal is very narrow compared to my left. Luckily, both sides sound the same and I can also wear the same size tips for both.

I would say you’re on the right track with your ideas. Try larger and/or different tips in that ear. If you’re worried about a foam tip reducing treble on the larger side, you can try making DIY hybrid tips by stuffing the foam behind a silicone tip. It will fill out the silicone tip and make it fit tighter, but will still sound like a silicone tip.

There’s different ways to make the hybrid tips; if you search you’ll find them. If you can’t locate the posts for whatever reason, lemme know because I’m pretty sure I have them bookmarked on my laptop.


----------



## AncientSw0rd

My right ear canal is bigger than my left.  I can usually wear the same size in tips but I have trouble getting my right ear to seal sometimes. ZS7 treble sound great to me, not too bright at all.


----------



## AlexaCl (Feb 12, 2019)

del


----------



## BrunoC

Wait... KZ ZSN for $9? KZ ZSR for 10$?
Where may I ask?


----------



## AlexaCl

BrunoC said:


> Wait... KZ ZSN for $9? KZ ZSR for 10$?
> Where may I ask?


Marketplace Bringly (with bonus points), but unfortunately, it is available only for Russia


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 11, 2019)

AlexaCl said:


> Hey! I am going to buy my first KZ and I need your help with the choice. Maybe some of these: KZ ZS3 / ZS3E (5$), KZ ES3 (8$), KZ ZSN (9$), KZ ZSR (10$), or maybe KZ ZS10 (15$). I will use xiaomi mi 8 lite (supports aptx, aptx hd and aac), and most likely the KZ bluetooth module (due to the lack of 3.5mm). Reviews for all headphones are different and therefore difficult to decide  . I have no special preferences in music, I listen to completely different genres. I also heard that the bluetooth module has problems with noise at low volume and loss of connection with the device (even while in pocket), is that true?



I'd say ZSN, can handle a fairly wide range of genre's (rock, rap, edm, pop, etc) and is not bad for what it is.


Depends on which bluetooth module.
IF you go for the TRN BT20 true wireless setup, it should be fairly good as long as the source (xiaomi mi 8 for you) has a good enough BT antenna.
There is also the BT10 (wired in between) which is supposed to be better than the BT4.1 KZ cables. I had the BT10 for a bit (MMCX version) and it was decent.

I don't know about the newer BT4.2 aptx KZ cables, which do have the new C-paragraph pin that fits the ZSN. I ordered one, but it's not yet arrived.


----------



## neo_styles

B9Scrambler said:


> Going back in time to yet another model that has stopped receiving attention; ED16. They have a really well done sound stage. Been running them with liquid d'n'b tracks tonight and effects float all over the place. They really do feel like a colder, more balanced ZSR. Not a fan of the ergonomics but I know I'm in the minority there. Overall pretty good stuff



The ED16, once you get a good seal, do excellent on Electronic music. Calyx & TeeBee and Fred V & Grafix sound phenomenal on them. I'm assuming that's because you're listening to genres that play to the strengths of the ED16 where there's not a whole lot of midrange information in the production. If I'm going to listen to straight Rock (especially Classic Rock), I tend to reach for a more balanced pair, but you're right: they do great on Electronic music.

And glad to hear people are recommending Shpongle as I've been a fan for about half a decade at this point. Really glad I'll finally get to see them in May...at Red Rocks no less. I'd also suggest you give Mr.What? a listen. Similar vein, but different enough for variety's sake.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got a minor electrocution from my purple ZSN with the black stock cable. It was like firecrackers exploding going from my Zishan Z1 all the way up the cable to the purple ZSN and a final explosion like fireworks when it hit the earpieces. It was really weird.



That happened to me with both the purple/silver ZSN and a previous pair of ZS6. My guess is they're not properly insulating the internals on some of these, which can provide for shorts. If you feel industrious enough, you could probably pad the internals if it becomes a persistent problem, but feeling that "pop pop pop" on your ear is definitely an uncomfortable experience and something I've only experienced with KZ's stuff (only those two pairs so far, though).


----------



## AlexaCl

assassin10000 said:


> I'd say ZSN, can handle a fairly wide range of genre's (rock, rap, edm, pop, etc) and is not bad for what it is.
> 
> 
> Depends on which bluetooth module.
> ...


Thank you, I think to buy a KZ module, because it costs 5 times cheaper than the TRN bt20 and 3 times cheaper than the TRN bt10


----------



## 1clearhead (Feb 11, 2019)

EarlytoBed said:


> jejeje.. Yes 1clearhead! the earhook gives you a good clue, hard to put it in other way.
> 
> -Clear
> Haha!...I didn't mean to be sarcastic, but I've seen colleagues and even friends that are not used to the fact on how to even wear earphones that wrap around the ears for that matter and assist them several times to actually get it right while trying to figure out what ear tips fits them best.
> You seem to know your stuff...so, my apologies!


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> You’d be surprised what some people do


+1 ...Exactly!


----------



## EarlytoBed (Feb 11, 2019)

No worries at all 1clearhead!


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone in the U.S. looking at getting the KZ b-paragraph bluetooth 4.2 aptx cable?

I've got 2 that are new/unopened. That I won't be using.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> I feel for you friend.
> 
> My right ear canal is very narrow compared to my left. Luckily, both sides sound the same and I can also wear the same size tips for both.
> 
> ...



Tried to do a little research but couldn't find clear posts. Could you please link me something? 
Thank you in advance!


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Tried to do a little research but couldn't find clear posts. Could you please link me something?
> Thank you in advance!



This should get you squared away friend. Let me know if you have any questions

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1515#post-13761857

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1700#post-13871612

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2487#post-14558266

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2268#post-14318559

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2268#post-14318594

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-329#post-14770408


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just published our review of the KZ AS10 (sorry for the delay): https://www.headfonia.com/review-kz-as10/


----------



## finallysignedup

Guys I'm now using the TRN IM1, I was very curious about the extra treble presence on this, switched from the KZ ED16 but I hadn't listen to it the last two weeks so I lost my reference.
So, first impressions about IM1 is that they lack bass energy to me, it feels bright and incredible live and every instrument sounds foward but for personal use I would really enjoy more bass so I'll try some EQ just to see how it does.
Then I switched back to the ED16 right after and now the bass is on point, I would say the IM1 is analytical, foward and full sounding while the ED16 is more dynamic, musical and more recessed (bigger soundstage) having a more V shaped signature but this is just first impressions. But cable (no moldable wire) and fit (in my case) are incredible, they are very well packaged and made too, really liked that.





(Sorry for the quality my phone is pretty bad on this)

But talking about wider bore tips, can someone say the differences in sound versus starline tips? I wanna know first because I broke one tip changing on the ES4, the eartip hole was way thinner than the nozzle.


----------



## Tweeters

For those that have the ZS7 and CCA C10, what differences are there/how different are they?


----------



## HungryPanda

The ZS7 and CCA C10 are close in sound, I find the C10 just a bit more coherent, more pleasant to listen to


----------



## durwood (Feb 12, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> The ZS7 and CCA C10 are close in sound, I find the C10 just a bit more coherent, more pleasant to listen to



Interesting, you would think the ZS7 should in theory be more coherent given the placement of the treble BA's, but then again it all comes down the system as a whole, maybe the crossover in the ZS7 was designed for the CCA, and so it doesn't take into account the different placement. I have been resisting the ZS7 but I love the "looks" and aluminum shell over the CCA C10, but I know the C10 would fit better given I have a ZSN. It would be cool if I could transplant a ZSN cover onto the C10.


----------



## Zerohour88

coincidentally, crinacle also made a first impression post on the KZ AS10:

https://www.reddit.com/r/inearfidelity/comments/apu4l7/kz_as10/

to sum it up : "Colour me very surprised. You could definitely do much, _much_ worse for the price."

I count that a win for KZ, lol.


----------



## AncientSw0rd

Hey, any of you guys compared the cca16 to the bgvp dm6 yet?

Wondering if cca16 is worth trying?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Zerohour88 said:


> coincidentally, crinacle also made a first impression post on the KZ AS10:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/inearfidelity/comments/apu4l7/kz_as10/
> 
> ...



It is a convincing win for KZ to me.
Then there are CCA10 & CCA16


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> coincidentally, crinacle also made a first impression post on the KZ AS10:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/inearfidelity/comments/apu4l7/kz_as10/
> 
> ...



Wow, that really says a lot. He’s always been more or less a KZ basher.

Maybe I need to finally get an AS10 after all...


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Wow, that really says a lot. He’s always been more or less a KZ basher.
> 
> Maybe I need to finally get an AS10 after all...


You have ZS7, and judging by CCA C10, they are not that far in capabilities.
So you may just enjoy ZS7, or consider CCA C16 (I am still waiting for it to receed in price - silly New Year resolution...)


----------



## BrunoC (Feb 12, 2019)

Slater said:


> Wow, that really says a lot. He’s always been more or less a KZ basher.
> 
> Maybe I need to finally get an AS10 after all...




IMO is very good but.... only on NOT WARM sources. For example in the Fiio E07K which is a good but a bit warm source, the AS10 is not good at all, because the lows overwhelm everything. Too much warm sound is strange, not sounding natural at all.
A simple Benjie K8 which is more a bright like source, the AS10 truly shines.

The AS10 is VERY source dependent.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Some quick reviews of two things relevant to the thread.

ZS4 - The Contraptionist / Head-fi


 

ED16 - The Contraptionist / Head-fi

​


----------



## DocHoliday

BrunoC said:


> IMO is very good but.... only on NOT WARM sources. For example in the Fiio E07K which is a good but a bit warm source, the AS10 is not good at all, because the lows overwhelm everything. Too much warm sound is strange, not sounding natural at all.
> A simple Benjie K8 which is more a bright like source, the AS10 truly shines.
> 
> The AS10 is VERY source dependent.
> ...



I can not speak to the AS10 regarding source but I can confirm that the BA10 sounds more energetic with a beautifully balanced presentation via my Cowon Plenue as opposed to the warmer and laid back presentation via my Fiio X3(i). Both DAPs have an output impedance of less than 1 ohm. IMHO, a DAP with less than 1 ohm is the best pairing for multi-BA in-ears. The ZS6's bright nature pairs better with the warm nature of the  Fiio X3(i).

Perfect setups for both IEMs with many, many genres.


----------



## HungryPanda

DocHoliday said:


> I can not speak to the AS10 regarding source but I can confirm that the BA10 sounds more energetic with a beautifully balanced presentation via my Cowon Plenue as opposed to the warmer and laid back presentation via my Fiio X3(i). Both DAPs have an output impedance of less than 1 ohm. IMHO, a DAP with less than 1 ohm is the best pairing for multi-BA in-ears. The ZS6's bright nature pairs better with the warm nature of the  Fiio X3(i).
> 
> Perfect setups for both IEMs with many, many genres.


Beautiful piece of music indeed


----------



## PhonoPhi

DocHoliday said:


> I can not speak to the AS10 regarding source but I can confirm that the BA10 sounds more energetic with a beautifully balanced presentation via my Cowon Plenue as opposed to the warmer and laid back presentation via my Fiio X3(i). Both DAPs have an output impedance of less than 1 ohm. IMHO, a DAP with less than 1 ohm is the best pairing for multi-BA in-ears. The ZS6's bright nature pairs better with the warm nature of the  Fiio X3(i).
> 
> Perfect setups for both IEMs with many, many genres.



I have been comparing AS10 and BA10 for the last few days - very entertaining 
They are quite close, sharing the same drivers and the same low impedance (14 Ohm) making them very source dependent.
If not for the fit, BA10 could be slightly ahead sonically (I managed to fit it reasonably with JVC spiral dots but its sharp corners are still felt).
BA10 seems to be more resonant, with a bit more highs to my ears.
AS10 is warmer and gentler, without much compromising resolution and the sound stage.


----------



## Podster (Feb 12, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Some quick reviews of two things relevant to the thread.
> 
> ZS4 - The Contraptionist / Head-fi
> 
> ...



Awesome reviews B9 Well it's clearly known in these parts I'm a ZS6 fan but since you posted the ZS4 review I just wanted to say of the latter KZ releases the ZS4 is by far and away my second fave KZ So far the better the source the better they sound but I simply love them off my ES100 with RedBook files
I pretty much ended my KZ infatuation after the ZST's and not jumped on any of the multi hybrid's (10 models) as I've moved into a little higher priced models for these types of iem's. Could not really tell you how any of these models sound but I'm sure KZ has done a bang up job for their respective prices


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Tweeters said:


> For those that have the ZS7 and CCA C10, what differences are there/how different are they?



The ZS7 is exciting sounding, bass is tight, solid and has a very good slam, percussion sounds nicely sharp, instrument separation is very good, soundstage is holophonic, treble is clear with a nice sparkle. Very good for electronic instruments.

The C10 sounds very smooth and relaxed, with a bit more rolled-off treble, instrument separation is slightly less than on ZS7, bass is strong enough, but ZS7 has more slam. Soundstage is slightly wider than on the ZS7 but less holophonic, it is less airy sounding than the ZS7. Very good for accoustic instruments and music with a lot of atmosphere, the ZS7 can add a bit too much excitement to mysterious sounding music.

I prefer the ZS7 at the moment, it often surprises me with how tracks that I have heard lots of times sound on it.

Using both with spiral dots tips and KZ balanced silver plated cables on my FiiO X7 MK II.


----------



## DocHoliday

PhonoPhi said:


> I have been comparing AS10 and BA10 for the last few days - very entertaining
> They are quite close, sharing the same drivers and the same low impedance (14 Ohm) making them very source dependent.
> If not for the fit, BA10 could be slightly ahead sonically (I managed to fit it reasonably with JVC spiral dots but its sharp corners are still felt).
> BA10 seems to be more resonant, with a bit more highs to my ears.
> AS10 is warmer and gentler, without much compromising resolution and the sound stage.



To the rescue...



 

One way to get the hot spot (corners) further away from your ear is to cut the neck from an unused silicone eartip and use it as a spacer to keep your eartip firmly set at the end of the nozzle. For me, this increases soundstage width and instrument separation while delivering an exceptionally clean bass response on the BA10.



 


An excerpt from my review:



> Soundstage:
> 
> Soundstage can be very tricky when it comes to warm-leaning IEMs. In the BA10's case I had to do extensive tip rolling. Some eartips sealed perfectly but the bass became so concentrated that things got muffled. Other eartips had a mediocre seal and the bass impact diminished considerably. Of course bass can have a huge impact on clarity and airiness so you have to get this right or everything comes off half baked. You'll notice in this reposted photo that next to the Whirlwind eartip is a silicone collar that I separated from another unused eartip.
> 
> ...



Hope this was helpful.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 12, 2019)

DocHoliday said:


> To the rescue...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A very helpful advice, thank you!
Also I did remove the foam from the nozzles, as in your review 
It made BA10 more distinct from AS10.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> To the rescue...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice Doc, you know if I do go with any other KZ it's going to be the BA (Big Azz) 10 Toasters I know B9 might dis-own me for this but I absolutely HATE the way the clear Teardrop KZ's look with that circuit board for aesthetics LOL


----------



## BoZ29

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> The ZS7 is exciting sounding, bass is tight, solid and has a very good slam, percussion sounds nicely sharp, instrument separation is very good, soundstage is holophonic, treble is clear with a nice sparkle. Very good for electronic instruments.
> 
> The C10 sounds very smooth and relaxed, with a bit more rolled-off treble, instrument separation is slightly less than on ZS7, bass is strong enough, but ZS7 has more slam. Soundstage is slightly wider than on the ZS7 but less holophonic, it is less airy sounding than the ZS7. Very good for accoustic instruments and music with a lot of atmosphere, the ZS7 can add a bit too much excitement to mysterious sounding music.
> 
> ...


I have the same experience with my zs7. I use stock cable, do you have an Aliexpress link to your silver plated cable? Or type number?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Podster said:


> Nice Doc, you know if I do go with any other KZ it's going to be the BA (Big Azz) 10 Toasters I know B9 might dis-own me for this but I absolutely HATE the way the clear Teardrop KZ's look with that circuit board for aesthetics LOL


Oh, BA10s look amazing, beautifully machined aluminum housing, quite light (I do dislike using heavier cheaper zinc alloy in CCA).

At the same time when one is all absorbed in great music, not that much chances of  looking in the mirror how dat clear housing with de board look like inside


----------



## Podster

LOL, my wife tells me I wear or just simply like the ugliest shoes on the planet but circuit boards in my ears...........................NEVER!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

BoZ29 said:


> I have the same experience with my zs7. I use stock cable, do you have an Aliexpress link to your silver plated cable? Or type number?



I'm using these basic KZ balanced upgrade cables: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...l?spm=a2g0z.10010108.1000001.8.69951d59FovzH0
The A version for the ZS7, the B version for the C10 and AS10.


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 12, 2019)

Podster said:


> Nice Doc, you know if I do go with any other KZ it's going to be the BA (Big Azz) 10 Toasters I know B9 might dis-own me for this but I absolutely HATE the way the clear Teardrop KZ's look with that circuit board for aesthetics LOL



They're a "no-go" for small ears but if you can fit the "toasters" with eartips that seal, remove the memory wire, install silicone ear hooks and pair them with the proper gear then $75+/- is a steal. 

They look and feel more premium in the hand than the photos portray.

Aftermarket cables are tuff though since most cables have round connector housings and the BA10's are decidedly box-like.

Nevertheless, one of my favorites......no kidding, Pod. Wouldn't hesitate one moment to pony up the cash to replace them. That C16, though....hmmm.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> LOL, my wife tells me I wear or just simply like the ugliest shoes on the planet but circuit boards in my ears...........................NEVER!



Don’t tell me you own any of these?


----------



## Podster (Feb 12, 2019)

Ooh, Camel Toe boots Well if one is impersonating a Minotaur those black ones are spot on Guess I need to show those sandel boots to my wife next time she thinks I've grabbed an ugly one

Dang you Doc, I finally carted a pair


----------



## eclein

Doc to the rescue......I love it! Now that I can fit/seal my BA10 iems they are getting more and more time ime(in my ears..lol) Its really to bad so many folks didn’t pick them up, was it issues with fit they heard about? Cost increase from normal KZ line? Looks? The sound to me is very unique especially between other KZ’s, or anything else really what do you think held people back you guys, Doc. 
If they did sell well you couldn’t tell from head-fi because when I got mine and came back on head-fi regularly I was shocked no one was talking much about them except Doc and myself.....they sounded so good to me I couldn’t imagine it being sound, or was it sort of? Did folks shy away from the configuration because no dynamics ended up at the finish line?


----------



## PhonoPhi

DocHoliday said:


> They're a "no-go" for small ears but if you can fit the "toasters" with eartips that seal, remove the memory wire, install silicone ear hooks and pair them with the proper gear then $75+/- is a steal.
> 
> They look and feel more premium in the hand than the photos portray.
> 
> ...



$55 on E-bay (!)
That, B9 recommendations and your review made it happen 
I am listening to Bach's Cello Suites at the moment - and absolutely no regrets!


----------



## kadas152

I’ve finally finished stage2 of my first iem modding adventure. My old trusted ATEs fell victim of my unwieldy attempts 

First of all i’ve added MMCX connectors and drilled hole in backplates. Results were surprisingly awesome. They surely open quite a bit with vented backplate 




Stage2 was involved bit more surgery. I’ve tried to implant DMG silver nozzles as they are only cheap and widely available IEM nozzles that I know off. Drilling hole for much bigger diameter nozzle was quite awkward as the original ATE nozzle has quite small inner bore and it’s off center!




But after quite a few drilling attempts and lot of adjusting especially with first one (as you can se by damaged knurling on one of nozzles ) I’ve managed to get it done somehow.



Don’t know if removing drivers from the shell and smoothing the nozzle boring bit more to perfection would do significant difference. I guess so but I didn’t want to remove drivers for now.

I am pretty satisfied with the result. Now it’s time to find proper tuning as nozzles have additional vent. I am using DIY symbio foam-silicone tips which cover vent on the nozzle and they sound quite nice that way. Removed a bit from the darkness and warmth of ATE but still very pleasant. With both vents open the bass is quite lacking but haven’t listened to them enough.

Thanks @CoiL for inspiration from many years ago. Maybe you would also have some tips how to improve the a lot more 

There are tons of plans for future for sure. Custom backplates from carbon fiber - plywood ply that I possess are first in row.
Maybe different drivers? Is it worth it? Or are ATE drivers good enough for this shell?


----------



## Zerohour88

kadas152 said:


> I’ve finally finished stage2 of my first iem modding adventure. My old trusted ATEs fell victim of my unwieldy attempts
> 
> First of all i’ve added MMCX connectors and drilled hole in backplates. Results were surprisingly awesome. They surely open quite a bit with vented backplate
> 
> ...



you could try fitting the MH755 drivers on it, seems like its quite well-regarded. You'd have to find a legit source first, which may or may not be a problem.


----------



## canzz

Slater said:


> If you’re willing to spend $100, the ibasso IT01 is amazing.
> 
> It will have the clarity you like (_especially if you remove the nylon fabric portion of the nozzle filter_), with the punchy depth and body you’re craving in the low end. Build quality is great, and the cable is off the hook.
> 
> ...





DynamicEars said:


> Looks like you prefer quality with hard hitting bass? Rather than balance?
> 
> Depend what on your purpose, do you like collecting many iems and keep rolling from one to another or changing iem, or stick to 1 but superior to all those cheaper iems.
> 
> ...





CoiL said:


> +1
> 
> +1
> 
> ...and there is tin t3 coming too



Decided not to get another KZ 

I am leaning towards the iBasso-IT01 but Im also considering similarly priced Yamaha-EPH-100, which I used to own and lost few years back. I loved the strong, clear but not fatiguing sound of that earphone. I wonder if anyone could make a comparison with iBasso-IT01.

https://www.amazon.ca/Yamaha-EPH100...words=EPH-100&qid=1550014854&s=gateway&sr=8-1

I was actually considering to go up to $250 but most of the recommended earphones (mostly on penonaudio) seem to be brighter than my preference.


----------



## CoiL

kadas152 said:


> I’ve finally finished stage2 of my first iem modding adventure. My old trusted ATEs fell victim of my unwieldy attempts
> 
> First of all i’ve added MMCX connectors and drilled hole in backplates. Results were surprisingly awesome. They surely open quite a bit with vented backplate
> 
> ...


Very nice work! ;P
At first I implanted ED9 brass nozzles to my ATE FF-mod but re-tuned it later with ED9 gold nozzles. I recommend You to close venting port on the shell and tune with port on the nozzle.
You get good slam/tightness from bass/percussion but still open sound. 
Btw, which generation ATE drivers You have there? Seems like 5th gen red shelled drivers.
If You get tired of ATE, move on to Sony MH755 drivers installed in ZS4 shells. I`ve done it already but need some fine tuning and maybe trying out different tweaks... but end result is very promising and BIG leap over modded ATE SQ imho. 755 drivers are quite "miracle" imo.


----------



## kadas152

CoiL said:


> Very nice work! ;P
> At first I implanted ED9 brass nozzles to my ATE FF-mod but re-tuned it later with ED9 gold nozzles. I recommend You to close venting port on the shell and tune with port on the nozzle.
> You get good slam/tightness from bass/percussion but still open sound.
> Btw, which generation ATE drivers You have there? Seems like 5th gen red shelled drivers.
> If You get tired of ATE, move on to Sony MH755 drivers installed in ZS4 shells. I`ve done it already but need some fine tuning and maybe trying out different tweaks... but end result is very promising and BIG leap over modded ATE SQ imho. 755 drivers are quite "miracle" imo.



Thanks 
They are 2nd gen I suppose - red drivers, shield like plastic box, black-gold strain reliefs and 016 on backplates.

I actually like ATE shells because of how small they are. Hopefully I’ll manage to lower their width similarly to yours mod.

What about XWB drivers for those ATE shells? 7.8mm XWB or 8mm titanium maybe even 8mm tesla XWB. Those are supposed to be quite good but I am not sure if really that good as even the cheapest option is quite pricey.

I’ve seen you mentioning MH755 transplanted into ZS4 shell that sounds fun too. I suppose I could use ZS3E shells as their are same as ZS4 without BA right? You don’t have to throw away that BA and they are cheaper too...

Actually I was thinking that my next project could be EarPods driver reshell as I have few of them laying here. Can you compare EarPods with 755s? I guess their about the same size and would both fit in ZS4 shells?


----------



## randomnin

CoiL said:


> Very nice work! ;P
> At first I implanted ED9 brass nozzles to my ATE FF-mod but re-tuned it later with ED9 gold nozzles. I recommend You to close venting port on the shell and tune with port on the nozzle.
> You get good slam/tightness from bass/percussion but still open sound.
> Btw, which generation ATE drivers You have there? Seems like 5th gen red shelled drivers.
> If You get tired of ATE, move on to Sony MH755 drivers installed in ZS4 shells. I`ve done it already but need some fine tuning and maybe trying out different tweaks... but end result is very promising and BIG leap over modded ATE SQ imho. 755 drivers are quite "miracle" imo.


I want every IEM in ZS4 shells. Is it a hard mod to do when using MH755 drivers? How much does the sound differ after reshelling?

Also, could someone point me to where one can reliably purchase MH755?


----------



## CoiL

randomnin said:


> I want every IEM in ZS4 shells. Is it a hard mod to do when using MH755 drivers? How much does the sound differ after reshelling?
> Also, could someone point me to where one can reliably purchase MH755?


QKZ VK3 shells are same as ZS3E/ZS4 but with different driver placement and same size as MH755 drivers.
I currently have done only ZS4 shell implementation and to me it sounds much better than stock MH755 but need some filtering material inside nozzle to littlebit tame treble.
Will buy VK3 shells also but ZS4 shells are ok too and imo pretty easy mod.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

randomnin said:


> I want every IEM in ZS4 shells. Is it a hard mod to do when using MH755 drivers? How much does the sound differ after reshelling?
> 
> Also, could someone point me to where one can reliably purchase MH755?


I ordered mine from www.eardio.com 
They are in the US and they shipped same day. Only ordered from them the once but it was all smooth and legit.


----------



## loomisjohnson

canzz said:


> Decided not to get another KZ
> 
> I am leaning towards the iBasso-IT01 but Im also considering similarly priced Yamaha-EPH-100, which I used to own and lost few years back. I loved the strong, clear but not fatiguing sound of that earphone. I wonder if anyone could make a comparison with iBasso-IT01.
> 
> ...


for my money, the it01 is a better performer (and much better value) than the eph, which is an ancient model by iem standards; for  a good non-fatiguing all-arounder i'd also look at the simgot en700 and pioneer se-ch9t (or if you don't want an over-ear model, the focal sphear or fidue a65)


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Wow, that really says a lot. He’s always been more or less a KZ basher.
> 
> Maybe I need to finally get an AS10 after all...


we are kz fans, so  we might umbrage at the critical rebukes. however, to me the guy registers as objective and sincere--by his criteria, and compared to the high $$ models he reviews, the kzs register as synthetic and unnatural. where we'd differ, of course, is in our subjective appreciation of the kz sound, which is to say that while my zsn has none of the accuracy or refinement of  a top-tier ciem, i still enjoy listening to it alot. stated another way, a strawberry pop tart may have only a passing resemblance to actual food, it still tastes delicious.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> we are kz fans, so  we might umbrage at the critical rebukes. however, to me the guy registers as objective and sincere--by his criteria, and compared to the high $$ models he reviews, the kzs register as synthetic and unnatural. where we'd differ, of course, is in our subjective appreciation of the kz sound, which is to say that while my zsn has none of the accuracy or refinement of  a top-tier ciem, i still enjoy listening to it alot. stated another way, a strawberry pop tart may have only a passing resemblance to actual food, it still tastes delicious.



Well I’d upgrade to a strawberry pastry strudel


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> we are kz fans, so  we might umbrage at the critical rebukes. however, to me the guy registers as objective and sincere--by his criteria, and compared to the high $$ models he reviews, the kzs register as synthetic and unnatural. where we'd differ, of course, is in our subjective appreciation of the kz sound, which is to say that while my zsn has none of the accuracy or refinement of  a top-tier ciem, i still enjoy listening to it alot. stated another way, a strawberry pop tart may have only a passing resemblance to actual food, it still tastes delicious.



Agreed. I never meant to imply he wasn’t sincere or objective. Quite the contrary. He’s making a valuable contribution to the audiophile community.

It’s like you said - if you spend every day listening to TOTL gear, it’s going to be hard not to be critical of $30 budget stuff.

If I spent every day driving high end Italian supercars, a Honda Civic would seem like a piece of crap. Which it is compared to an Italian supercar, but the Honda Civic on it’s own is a top performer in its market class.


----------



## BoZ29

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I'm using these basic KZ balanced upgrade cables: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...l?spm=a2g0z.10010108.1000001.8.69951d59FovzH0
> The A version for the ZS7, the B version for the C10 and AS10.


Thanks! Did you really notice a difference with the stock cable? I just finished a studio recording for my wife. It’s incredible how great this recording sounds on the zs7. Het voice is very accurate and exactly like the real voice. The zs7 leans more to the treble side so people who are saying it’s dull or weak in the highs are definitely wrong, but they just like extended highs I guess.


----------



## Nimweth

My review of the CCA C16 is now available:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-c16.23526/reviews


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Podster said:


> Well I’d upgrade to a strawberry pastry strudel


I think CCA C10 and C16 are the toaster strudle


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Nimweth said:


> My review of the CCA C16 is now available:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-c16.23526/reviews



BTW, I'm totally with you on the accessories. $100 IEM should come with a case at the very least. 

KZ and CCA need to step up to the bigtime in regards to packaging.


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> I think CCA C10 and C16 are the toaster strudle



Very well could be Bad but I'm not going the CCA route but I'm enjoying the observations on them, glad you are enjoying them Now with that said @DocHoliday finally persuaded me to get the KZ toasters He's an evil boy that Doc


----------



## eclein

If Docs talking about BA10s? I’ll second that...wonderful sound!


----------



## Slater (Feb 13, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> BTW, I'm totally with you on the accessories. $100 IEM should come with a case at the very least.
> 
> KZ and CCA need to step up to the bigtime in regards to packaging.



Compared to what they used to come in, they have stepped up packaging lol

It used to be a plain black cardboard box (that was generic and usually didn’t even have the model name printed on the outside). Or who could forget the plastic shield case?

Now they have the nice book style cases with the metal plaque, like ZS7 and some of the other flagship models.


----------



## durwood

I think they should save the money spent on the metal plaque and instead throw in the KZ branded zipper case instead. It's not like I am going to display these in a shrine or something.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Compared to what they used to come in, they have lol
> 
> It used to be a plain black cardboard box (that was generic and usually didn’t even have the model name printed on the outside). Or who could forget the plastic shield case?
> 
> Now they have the nice book style cases with the metal plaque, like ZS7 and some of the other flagship models.



Ah the good old days Always wished they had made them of Vibranium


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> I think they should save the money spent on the metal plaque and instead throw in the KZ branded zipper case instead. It's not like I am going to display these in a shrine or something.



Agreed.

They look cool in a review photo. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a review on 1 of the models that included a plaque that didn’t have at least 1 photo that incorporated the plaque somehow


----------



## eclein

Those little plaques make no sense at all.
No case with C16 is like very bad business. Like buying a car with no spare.


----------



## B9Scrambler

eclein said:


> Those little plaques make no sense at all.
> No case with C16 is like very bad business. Like buying a car with no spare.



I totally get why people want a case included and it certainly wouldn't be something to look down at, but they cost around $1. Not like it's a big investment or something to get upset about. Just toss one in with the initial order. Problem solved.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> This should get you squared away friend. Let me know if you have any questions
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1515#post-13761857
> 
> ...



Thank you so much! You're always a kind help for everyone.
Gonna tell you if i find some trouble with these.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

BoZ29 said:


> Thanks! Did you really notice a difference with the stock cable? I just finished a studio recording for my wife. It’s incredible how great this recording sounds on the zs7. Het voice is very accurate and exactly like the real voice. The zs7 leans more to the treble side so people who are saying it’s dull or weak in the highs are definitely wrong, but they just like extended highs I guess.



I think some people might be using the wrong kind of eartips or sources. My colleague listened to my zs7 today and said they sounded amazing for the price, he recognized the higher mids being a bit emphasized. He also tried my AS10 and C10 before and didn't really care for the C10 (they hadn't been burned in yet though).

I can't tell if they sound different, mine are balanced cables, compared to the standard cables that are included, so they use different outputs on my player. The balanced output has more power, which is nice.

Cool that you do studio recordings with your wife. The ZS7 really does sound great, love the treble on them. I wonder how they will compare to the C16 when I finally receive those.


----------



## eclein (Feb 14, 2019)

The C10s took time to really come alive but my C16s were great right away. Its been that way for me lately...mostly they take time to ?????????  in for me.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

eclein said:


> Those little plaques make no sense at all.
> No case with C16 is like very bad business. Like buying a car with no spare.


My car came with a donut, but that was the last model year that included one. Now you have to purchase them separately after you buy the car.


----------



## eclein

Do you really....I'm unable to drive, disability, so haven't bought a car in years


----------



## Slater (Feb 13, 2019)

eclein said:


> Like buying a car with no spare.



Not including a case with an IEM that costs $1-$2 to buy separately?

Eh, no sweat.

No spare tire, which could leave me stranded miles from home, at night time, in the rain, on the blind curve of a dangerous road?

Now *that* really grinds my gears.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Not including a case with an IEM that costs $1-$2 to buy separately?
> 
> Eh, no sweat.
> 
> ...


penny pinching on the accessories is just dumb--the visceral unboxing experience is a big deal for most folks. some of the best packaging i've seen is from rha and dzat (trinity did a nice job as well)--the iems themselves may not have been exceptional, but it makes you stand out in a sea of competition.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> penny pinching on the accessories is just dumb--the visceral unboxing experience is a big deal for most folks. some of the best packaging i've seen is from rha and dzat (trinity did a nice job as well)--the iems themselves may not have been exceptional, but it makes you stand out in a sea of competition.



Indeed they did and I happen to love all my Trinity's


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I am loving the black ZSN with the copper cable. Too cool. What a great deal!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

eclein said:


> If Docs talking about BA10s? I’ll second that...wonderful sound!


Someone said they are similar to the as10? Is it worth having both or would a cca c16 be better value?


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Someone said they are similar to the as10? Is it worth having both or would a cca c16 be better value?


Similar, the same drivers.
BA10 is more resonant, with a bit more highs to my ear.
The main issue with BA10 is the fit of its brick-shaped housing.
CCA10 is quite complimentary to AS10 and with its incredible (in my opinion) value may be worth to explore.
I am still to get CCA16, so can't comment on it.


----------



## Letm (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi. As stated before, I ended up buying the kz bte for a cheap Bluetooth solution. My curiosity about kz was renewed with this experience and now I have the as10. Nothing to add, the reviews are correct, the as10 is, finally, a mature kz product without spikes. A great product indeed.

I also ended up buying the famous Tin audio t2. It is one of the most detailed sounds I have ever heard. At the moment, the t2 is my daily driver at work. It pairs excellent with my LG g7.

As a follow up to my opinion about the Bluetooth connection of the kz bte, I must say that, with my LG g7, the connection is very stable and the sound is quite good with aptx. Unfortunately, the connection with my fire TV stick has some problems. Apparently, the problem is the saturation of the 2.4 GHz band, and the problems only arise when I am using the wifi (gaming locally offline is ok). I will test with a 5 GHz connection to confirm


----------



## Aparker2005

So when is KZ's 8 driver being released? Any news on it?


----------



## DocHoliday

Aparker2005 said:


> So when is KZ's 8 driver being released? Any news on it?



If that baton wasn't completely handed over to CCA (C16) like the C04 then I'll venture a guess that perhaps KZ is working on it. They'd probably have to fashion one from a new aluminum flagship shell and work on the crossover to differentiate it from the C16. 

Only time or a leaked photo will tell.


----------



## canzz

loomisjohnson said:


> for my money, the it01 is a better performer (and much better value) than the eph, which is an ancient model by iem standards; for  a good non-fatiguing all-arounder i'd also look at the simgot en700 and pioneer se-ch9t (or if you don't want an over-ear model, the focal sphear or fidue a65)



Could you briefly explain why its an ancient model by IEM standards? I am not disagreeing and just curious. I know it has been around for a long time but so does many of the Shure IEMs right?

They recently announced EPH-200 for $250, I wonder how they sound. Unfortunately there aren't many reviews yet.


----------



## zozito

I'm really enjoying my eph-100 right now...


----------



## loomisjohnson (Feb 15, 2019)

canzz said:


> Could you briefly explain why its an ancient model by IEM standards? I am not disagreeing and just curious. I know it has been around for a long time but so does many of the Shure IEMs right?
> 
> They recently announced EPH-200 for $250, I wonder how they sound. Unfortunately there aren't many reviews yet.


essentially, iem technology is evolving at warp speed, with attendant gains in manufacturing efficiencies--the net effect is that they're kicking out ever-more advanced drivers and designs at a cost that would be unthinkable a few years ago. i sold my eph100 years ago, but from memory it would not be competitive with my comparably-priced current favorites (or even with some >$30 models i like). i've also owned the shure 215 and 535 which, purely in my opinion, don't sound as good to me as say, the bqeyz bq3.  there's a certain comfort in buying established brand names, but this crew finds the real value in the obscure stuff we tout on these pages.


----------



## Podster

As big a ZS6 nut that I am I have to say my ZS4's are one of the more fun sub $15 iem's I've ever owned period from any Chi-Fi manufacturer


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> As big a ZS6 nut that I am I have to say my ZS4's are one of the more fun sub $15 iem's I've ever owned period from any Chi-Fi manufacturer



Agreed. It is an often overlooked gem.

I believe the ZS3 really disappointed a lot of people, and left a bad taste in their mouth. I wonder how things would be different if the ZS3 had never happened, and we only got the ZS4?


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Agreed. It is an often overlooked gem.
> 
> I believe the ZS3 really disappointed a lot of people, and left a bad taste in their mouth. I wonder how things would be different if the ZS3 had never happened, and we only got the ZS4?



Agreed on the bad taste 100% Too bad really because as I've said many times the ZS4 is everything the ZS3 was not


----------



## Tooros (Feb 15, 2019)

Hi All. I placed an order for some zs7’s during Chinese New Year from someone I didn’t know was banned and likely to end in tears for me. They haven’t shipped yet and I’m thinking of cancelling and going for the CCA-C16 instead. Are they really a huge step up? What would you do? I have some nice gear to compare. These are really only for bedtime and falling asleep in. Currently doing that with it01 (original ones not the more expensive version.)


----------



## Podster (Feb 15, 2019)

Start by never mentioning that name on here! Second check with seller as the Ali-Ex order link does not always truly identify where your package is and sellers can give you a better ETA


----------



## Tooros

Edited! Sorry. Didn’t know.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

@Podster Edit your quote. I have been suspended here for quoting someone elses woopsie before.

@Tooros That seller has been banned here. I have ordered from them before and found the process tiring and slow. Good prices though.


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> @Podster Edit your quote. I have been suspended here for quoting someone elses woopsie before.
> 
> @Tooros That seller has been banned here. I have ordered from them before and found the process tiring and slow. Good prices though.



Yikes, now who's BAD bad THX I do always forget the quote is still hanging out there


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## randomnin (Feb 15, 2019)

Podster said:


> Agreed on the bad taste 100% Too bad really because as I've said many times the ZS4 is everything the ZS3 was not


True, ZS3 was a disappointment. But I believe that the people for whom the fit was good swarmed for the ZS4 regardless of the predecessor's sound. And there's the extra guarantee of at least a usual KZ sound by the fact of use of the usual 30095 BA driver.

The sound, well, I guess it can be called fun, what I like is the fact that the BA isn't too restricted by having a rolled off tuning at the highest frequencies. But the bass-mid bleed is rather unpleasant, that needs to be brought down by EQ. Also, there's too little rumble for a really fun signature, so low bass goes up. Good thing there's no distortion after such modifications.

All in all, after switching through dozens of Chi-Fi and some older and\or cheaper Western models, ZS4 is my favourite low budget thing.


----------



## Tooros

So I don’t mess up again. Could someone suggest a seller that’s reliable for the cca-c16 please. Pm if preferred. I’m in UK so the usual marketplace is preferred as anything from the US incurs large addditonal costs.


----------



## DocHoliday

loomisjohnson said:


> there's a certain comfort in buying established brand names, but this crew finds the real value in the obscure stuff we tout on these pages.



The truth ("this crew finds the real value in the obscure stuff we tout on these pages") is always comforting when it resonates with one's own resolve. Maybe I'll have to have this succinct statement engraved somewhere permanently to serve as consolation for the frequent moments that I stare into my empty wallet.

Truth is....

I wouldn't have it any other way. 



loomisjohnson said:


> i've also owned the shure 215 and 535 which, purely in my opinion, don't sound as good to me as say, the bqeyz bq3.



I'll definitely be reviewing the BQ3 shortly.



Slater said:


> I believe the ZS3 really disappointed a lot of people, and left a bad taste in their mouth. I wonder how things would be different if the ZS3 had never happened, and we only got the ZS4?






Podster said:


> Agreed on the bad taste 100% Too bad really because as I've said many times the ZS4 is everything the ZS3 was not





randomnin said:


> True, ZS3 was a disappointment. But I believe that the people for whom the fit was good swarmed for the ZS4 regardless of the predecessor's sound. And there's the extra guarantee of at least a usual KZ sound by the fact of use of the usual 30095 BA driver.
> 
> The sound, well, I guess it can be called fun, what I like is the fact that the BA isn't too restricted by having a rolled off tuning at the highest frequencies. But the bass-mid bleed is rather unpleasant, that needs to be brought down by EQ. Also, there's too little rumble for a really fun signature, so low bass goes up. Good thing there's no distortion after such modifications.
> 
> All in all, after switching through dozens of Chi-Fi and some older and\or cheaper Western models, ZS4 is my favourite low budget thing.



Maybe it's me and my shallow ear canals but I enjoyed the ZS3. Fitted with smaller-than-usual silicone eartips, for me, brought the bass down to just above neutral which pushed the midrange forward. My ZS3 literally sounded like an HDS1 with a subwoofer. Of course they sound quite two-dimensional compared to newer offerings but my only complaint with the ZS3 was occasional strident behavior in the midrange. They certainly weren't a standard to measure anything by but I did enjoy mine for a season. 

That said, if the ZS4 is as much fun as everyone says it is then I'll have to pick up a set in red along with a ZS3E (in red, as well).


----------



## Podster

Well don’t take my word on it being fun @DocHoliday as random Nine Inch Nail said I don’t hear them right! Guess he knows what I hear


----------



## Slater

DocHoliday said:


> The truth ("this crew finds the real value in the obscure stuff we tout on these pages") is always comforting when it resonates with one's own resolve. Maybe I'll have to have this succinct statement engraved somewhere permanently to serve as consolation for the frequent moments that I stare into my empty wallet.
> 
> Truth is....
> 
> ...



Yeah, if you like the ZS3, you’ll like the ZS4 for sure. It improves the ZS3 in every way, and is like the ZS3 on steroids.

And don’t get me wrong, I personally like the ZS3 and own more than 1 pair. Heck, they were available as cheap as $4.99 at one point (which you can’t beat for that price).

I always felt that probably half of the complaints were really due to the source though.

With the foam mod, a better wired source, and amping, the ZS3 is actually a nice sounding IEM. When run from a low power source or with the Bluetooth cables, it sounds dull and lifeless.

The ZS3 came out around the same time as the original KZ Bluetooth cables, and a lot of people were running them on that crappy BT cable for working out and such. It was not a good matchup though, which I think contributed to the disappointment by many.

The tuning is dominated by bass, which is fine for some genres but not others.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 16, 2019)

Delete


----------



## Sylmar

Sorry if this has been asked before but is there a big difference between KZ AS10 and CCA10? It seems the AS10 has gone down in price quote significantly.


----------



## majki84

I'm also hesitating between as10 and c10, the latter is half the price of kz's and looks better for me. Which has better bass?


----------



## PhonoPhi

majki84 said:


> I'm also hesitating between as10 and c10, the latter is half the price of kz's and looks better for me. Which has better bass?


CCA C10 has a dynamic bass driver (5=4BA+DD).
AS10 has a bass BA (5BAs).

AS10 and C10 have quite a bit in common - very nice resolution, good stage, gentle highs.

I personally love KZ bass BA (especially for cellos), but having both AS10 and C10, I would think for most people, the DD in C10 may be more universally appreciated.

So given that C10 is also less expensive, I would suggest trying it first and if you like the sound and resolution in general and prefer a bit faster (and a bit less prominent) bass - then you can experience AS10 as well


----------



## gbrgbr

From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro


----------



## BadReligionPunk

gbrgbr said:


> From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro


Son of a....Just effing kill me. 

As soon as I buy that, C10 pro coming out. 

Might as well just shoot me now!


----------



## B9Scrambler

gbrgbr said:


> From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro



Oh boy! On the wishlist  

For those interested, I recently ordered the ED7 Mini, ZSE, ZSE Special, ZS3E, and the ZS7 for my shootout. Not expecting any of them to arrive until mid to late March, but they're coming. Mostly interested in the ZSE Special and ZS3E since neither has seen much coverage that I could find.


----------



## DynamicEars

gbrgbr said:


> From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro



I just escaped from KZ blackhole difficultly, and not looking back, but that picture is like grabbing me from behindddddddddd.. noooooooooo

2DD and 1 BA like BQEYZ KB1 and KB100


----------



## HungryPanda

What the Hell, CCA C10 and now this....... KZ!


----------



## Drake_Mallard

gbrgbr said:


> From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro


Noo! I already have a problem with KZ impulse purchases.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 16, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Son of a....Just effing kill me.
> 
> As soon as I buy that, C10 pro coming out.
> 
> Might as well just shoot me now!


Just in hope to prevent any of your potential body and mental harm: just think what would you feel to be Campfire or even Fiio fan  
and rejoice!


----------



## Slater

gbrgbr said:


> From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro



Pretty cool.

Remember when sellers were referring to a ZST Pro (ie the colorful one), but one never came out?

I wonder if there was supposed to be a ZST Pro all along...


----------



## Bartig

gbrgbr said:


> From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro


I JUST thought I wouldn't buy any KZ's anymore...


----------



## Slater

gbrgbr said:


> From AE KZ Official Store : ZSN Pro



I do like that green and silver color combination. I also like that it’s not highly polished aluminum like the purple ZSN. It’s sand blasted, which gives it a more subdued satin finish.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> I do like that green and silver color combination. I also like that it’s not highly polished aluminum like the purple ZSN. It’s sand blasted, which gives it a more subdued satin finish.


Original cyan ZSN is not polished and has a sand blasted grey finish that is quite similar to what is pictured (the cyan of ZSN is quite close to green in real life).


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I do like that green and silver color combination. I also like that it’s not highly polished aluminum like the purple ZSN. It’s sand blasted, which gives it a more subdued satin finish.



I wish it had been polished like the one on the purple ZSN.  You saw how I tried to color it so it would match the body of the iem better... well, that kept wearing off so I just rubbed it as much as I could with a cloth, colored it again with a black marker and rubbed it in as much as I could.  At least now, with my black balanced cable it looks a little more coordinated.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I do like that green and silver color combination. I also like that it’s not highly polished aluminum like the purple ZSN. It’s sand blasted, which gives it a more subdued satin finish.


Look at the edges. They look as thick as the plates on the C10 which are quite substantial. Looks like they are using C10 plate maybe?


----------



## gbrgbr

BadReligionPunk said:


> Look at the edges. They look as thick as the plates on the C10 which are quite substantial. Looks like they are using C10 plate maybe?



... and only one screw holding it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> What the Hell, CCA C10 and now this....... KZ!


I thought C10 was supposed to be the Luxury ZSN? Now what is this ZSN Pro going to be?


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Feb 16, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I thought C10 was supposed to be the Luxury ZSN? Now what is this ZSN Pro going to be?



Ans then what about the C10 Pro? And then the ZSN Pro Plus?

This ish will never end. HAHA!


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> Original cyan ZSN is not polished and has a sand blasted grey finish that is quite similar to what is pictured (the cyan of ZSN is quite close to green in real life).



Really? I thought the cyan-shelled ZSN had a black back (same as the black-shelled ZSN)?

So you’re saying:

1. Black ZSN has black cover with brushed finish
2. Purple ZSN has silver cover with polished finish
3. Cyan ZSN has silver cover with sand blasted finish


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Look at the edges. They look as thick as the plates on the C10 which are quite substantial. Looks like they are using C10 plate maybe?





gbrgbr said:


> ... and only one screw holding it.



And only 1 vent hole.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I thought C10 was supposed to be the Luxury ZSN? Now what is this ZSN Pro going to be?



They’re working on the “ZSN Pro Plus Super Extreme Ultimate Beast Mode Edition”.


----------



## randomnin

Update on my travails with large wide bore triple flanges lodging inside my ears.
Narrow bore ones do stay put on the nozzle, but the ones I have (from AliExpress) are uncomfortable, because the core of the eartip is harder and bends poorly, while the flanges are soft. Wide bores are have both soft and flexible flanges and cores.
I was suggested hairspray and silicon tape for the eartips to stay put, but I didn't have those, so I tried transparent double-sided adhesive tape (something like scotch tape). It stayed put on the nozzle, but it made the eartips slip off even easier. Then I remembered I had a narrow sort of black tape for fixing cell phone displays and screen glass. It worked, now eartips stay put, but I can still remove them if necessary. If anyone needs it, it can also be purchased from AliExpress.


Another question I had lying around in my brain for a while is about cables. Someone from these parts had measured them and it showed channel difference in resistance between the mic and non-mic side. Is that audible? I cannot check myself because I don't have very many non-mic cables, so please share your impressions.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> Update on my travails with large wide bore triple flanges lodging inside my ears.
> Narrow bore ones do stay put on the nozzle, but the ones I have (from AliExpress) are uncomfortable, because the core of the eartip is harder and bends poorly, while the flanges are soft. Wide bores are have both soft and flexible flanges and cores.
> I was suggested hairspray and silicon tape for the eartips to stay put, but I didn't have those, so I tried transparent double-sided adhesive tape (something like scotch tape). It stayed put on the nozzle, but it made the eartips slip off even easier. Then I remembered I had a narrow sort of black tape for fixing cell phone displays and screen glass. It worked, now eartips stay put, but I can still remove them if necessary. If anyone needs it, it can also be purchased from AliExpress.



Sure, I'd love to see the link. People post that question frequently, so it will be nice to be able to provide additional alternatives.



randomnin said:


> Another question I had lying around in my brain for a while is about cables. Someone from these parts had measured them and it showed channel difference in resistance between the mic and non-mic side. Is that audible? I cannot check myself because I don't have very many non-mic cables, so please share your impressions.



That was @hakuzen. When I 1st saw the impedance differences he published, I was surprised myself


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> Sure, I'd love to see the link. People post that question frequently, so it will be nice to be able to provide additional alternatives.
> 
> 
> 
> That was @hakuzen. When I 1st saw the impedance differences he published, I was surprised myself


This is the one I have -
€ 1,90 | 1pc Super Slim & Thin 3MM*50M Black Double Sided Adhesive Tape for Mobile Phone Touch Screen/LCD/Display Glass Top Sale
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bvWeWAtF


So I reckon you being surprised by the measurements means that you haven't heard any difference yourself. Well, I guess it's another nail in the coffin of cable-sound-difference apologists.


----------



## youngarthur

Slater said:


> And only 1 vent hole.
> 
> 
> 
> They’re working on the “ZSN Pro Plus Super Extreme Ultimate Beast Mode Edition”.


Sorry to correct you on this, buts  its Beast mode edition S9, S being the special edition, and the 9 denotes the series.


----------



## Slater (Feb 17, 2019)

randomnin said:


> This is the one I have -
> € 1,90 | 1pc Super Slim & Thin 3MM*50M Black Double Sided Adhesive Tape for Mobile Phone Touch Screen/LCD/Display Glass Top Sale
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bvWeWAtF
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link. So where exactly do you put the tape? On the whole nozzle, or just at the top or bottom? And this works with silicone or foam tips, or just 1 type?

As far as the cable, I personally always opt for a _non_-mic cable. Unless of course a mic is included on a fixed cable.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> Thanks for the link. So where exactly do you put the tape? On the whole nozzle, or just at the top or bottom? And this works with silicone or foam tips, or just 1 type?


On ZS4 - around the nozzle. It's slightly narrower than the height of the nozzle, so fits well under the lip without any extra cutting the tape's width. Length - once or twice the circumference of the nozzle works for me. Tried only with silicone triple flanges. Once removed leaves little to no residue on the casing or the eartip.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 17, 2019)

Slater said:


> Really? I thought the cyan-shelled ZSN had a black back (same as the black-shelled ZSN)?
> 
> So you’re saying:
> 
> ...



I have only cyan and purple ZSNs.
The cyan plate is brushed and is rather grey to me than black (as in nice work of making it black by @mbwilson).

Here is a fast shot of purple (left), and cyan (middle) in comparison with CCA C10 (right) above.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Really? I thought the cyan-shelled ZSN had a black back (same as the black-shelled ZSN)?





PhonoPhi said:


> I have only cyan and purple ZSNs.
> The cyan plate is brushed and is rather grey to me than black (as in nice work of making it black by @mbwilson).
> 
> Here is a fast shot of purple (left), and cyan (middle) in comparison with CCA C10 (right) above.



I should have taken a photo of my husbands @HungryPanda black ZSN next to my cyan when they arrived.  The plates were the exact same... what I would call a dark grey.  I would not even call the body of the black ZSN a true black as it is translucent.  To me the plate and the body of the black blend together nicely.   The grey with the cyan doesn't work for me ... I think silver would have been great or black... just not that in-between grey.  But then, I am happy with non metal face-plates in pretty jewel-like  colors    I like the shiny silver with the purple but would have preferred the entire iem to be the purple.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Yeah, if you like the ZS3, you’ll like the ZS4 for sure. It improves the ZS3 in every way, and is like the ZS3 on steroids.
> 
> And don’t get me wrong, I personally like the ZS3 and own more than 1 pair. Heck, they were available as cheap as $4.99 at one point (which you can’t beat for that price).
> 
> ...



Man, talk about late to the party, this thread moves faster than a California brush fire! You very well could be right on the ZS3 as I never gave them a fair chance before giving them away.
I use an amp with the 4’s most the time unless I’m running them balanced on my Opus #1 which I never did with my 3’s so I may have let that one get away. The ZSN Pro! I will say KZ themselves almost move as fast as this dang thread but I’ve just decided to back off and just stay here for fan support


----------



## avitron142

Does anyone know how the Penon impedance adapters work? Does it decrease hiss, or increase?

I can't tell if it's a cheaper version of the IEMatch or exactly the opposite.


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

gbrgbr said:


> ... and only one screw holding it.



Yeah, I'm waiting for the "4 screws holding" model myself.
I just have to figure it out once and for all how the number of screws and colour coordination make an IEM sound better.
LOL


----------



## PhonoPhi

avitron142 said:


> Does anyone know how the Penon impedance adapters work? Does it decrease hiss, or increase?
> 
> I can't tell if it's a cheaper version of the IEMatch or exactly the opposite.


IEMatch is some version of a voltage divider (several resistors).
Impedance adapters, such as sold by Penon,  use a single resistor to increase impedance.

IEMatch does a great job in essentially eliminating hiss when low-impedance multi-BA IEMs (such KZ AS 10) are powered by high-impedance sources  (such as smartphones).

I ordered few impedance adapters last month, but still have not recieved them -  slow boats ...


----------



## avitron142

PhonoPhi said:


> IEMatch is some version of a voltage divider (several resistors).
> Impedance adapters, such as sold by Penon,  use a single resistor to increase impedance.
> 
> IEMatch does a great job in essentially eliminating hiss when low-impedance multi-BA IEMs (such KZ AS 10) are powered by high-impedance sources  (such as smartphones).
> ...



Cool! Thanks.

I'm just worried the IEMatch may not be enough - the source I have is very hissy. Tube amp putting 2W per channel, even over-ears are crackling.


----------



## 1clearhead

I don't know if what they're selling overseas are the same as the ZSN PRO's in China, but these are the ones I'm trying to grab!
The back plate is "green" and tuned differently from the other 3 ZSN's! ...Say what? 





Chinese statement
 

English translation


Green Edition ZSN PRO's (bottom right)...while the other 3 are just original ZSN.



*Courtesy from taobao shopping website

-Clear


----------



## PhonoPhi

avitron142 said:


> Cool! Thanks.
> 
> I'm just worried the IEMatch may not be enough - the source I have is very hissy. Tube amp putting 2W per channel, even over-ears are crackling.


IEMatch has two modes and should work in this case, I believe (I do not have any powerful amps though).
The only catch  is dissipating (wasting) some portion of the power.


----------



## mbwilson111

1clearhead said:


> The back plate is "green" and tuned differently from the other 3 ZSN's! ...Say what?



So they saw my attempt a few weeks ago to color mine green?  But that was for my cyan ZSN...this one appears t have a black body.


----------



## Slater (Feb 17, 2019)

*ZSN Pro Ultra Edition:*

- Genuine Carbon Fiber Faceplates
- Tuned more neutral
- Limited Edition 1 of 1



Not sure if I want to put the carbon backs on the purple or black ZSN.

I might engrave the backs too, as I have access to a CNC diamond engraving machine. I just need to figure out something cool to engrave on them (maybe the KZ logo, or simply L and R).


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> *ZSN Pro Ultra Edition:*
> 
> - Genuine Carbon Fiber Faceplates
> - Tuned more neutral
> ...



That's sick! You should carve "Slater" in them  Make them a proper custom.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> That's sick! You should carve "Slater" in them  Make them a proper custom.



You don't think either of these would look cool engraved on the face plates?


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> *ZSN Pro Ultra Edition:*
> 
> - Genuine Carbon Fiber Faceplates
> - Tuned more neutral
> ...



I would have them laser engrave “Mine, B**ch!” in Gothic Revival font.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> You don't think either of these would look cool engraved on the face plates?



Either of those would be cool too. Old school logo gets my vote, lol. Maybe you could do that on one side and your user name on the other.


----------



## gbrgbr

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> Yeah, I'm waiting for the "4 screws holding" model myself.
> I just have to figure it out once and for all how the number of screws and colour coordination make an IEM sound better.
> LOL



That was just a addition to BadReligionPunk's post on the thick plate. Never said it it affects the sound. ZSN vs ZSN Pro visual differences.


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

gbrgbr said:


> That was just a addition to BadReligionPunk's post on the thick plate. Never said it it affects the sound. ZSN vs ZSN Pro visual differences.



I know, just tried to make a joke.
For a lot of people aesthetics and colours of an IEM is important - what I understand. For me the fit/comfort and sound is on the first place - and the looks doesn't play important role. When they're in my ears I don't see them .


----------



## Slater (Feb 17, 2019)

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> I know, just tried to make a joke.
> For a lot of people aesthetics and colours of an IEM is important - what I understand. For me the fit/comfort and sound is on the first place - and the looks doesn't play important role. When they're in my ears I don't see them .



So basically you’ll wear these as long as they sound good haha:


----------



## Podster

Man I need to get me some of those blingy tiara phones


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> You don't think either of these would look cool engraved on the face plates?


I like the second one, but, given the fact that the casings are quite anatomical, I think the left\right engravings would be superfluous. Like adding the left\right on ZS3\4 all over again. Not a tempting proposal, not in the least.


----------



## kadas152

Slater said:


> *ZSN Pro Ultra Edition:*
> 
> - Genuine Carbon Fiber Faceplates
> - Tuned more neutral
> ...



That’s really cool! Can you share more info about tuning mods you have done to make them more neutral?


----------



## Gazd

Does anyone know where on AliExpress is legit enough to buy a official kz zs7? Thank you


----------



## KevDzn

Gazd said:


> Does anyone know where on AliExpress is legit enough to buy a official kz zs7? Thank you



Just do a search in Aliexpress. There's only 2 stores selling it and they are related.


----------



## 1clearhead

Oh, well! ...I wasn't able to purchase the ZS7 in China, since they're nowhere to be found on taobao as of yet. But, I was able to buy today the limited edition "green" ZSN PRO, which are tuned different from the original ZSN. Once they arrive, I'll do a thorough comparison and give impressions on the differences in sound signatures and see if it was worth the extra effort. Meanwhile, I should be getting the C16 by the end of this week!
But, for now!...I'm going green with excitement! 

Dame the ZSN PRO "Green" dance!




-Clear


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 18, 2019)

Slater said:


> You don't think either of these would look cool engraved on the face plates?



Yep, agree with B9. The original KZ logo was understated elegance. Wish they'd engrave it in their flagship models. It would be a nice touch to have it finely engraved next to the model number on the aluminum housings (ZS7, BA10, etc.).


 


 

On another note, I thought that the C10 being only $28 was sheer madness....but what better way could yet another brand quickly establish itself or be taken seriously unless they deliver ridiculously good sound at a ridiculously low price? 



 




1clearhead said:


> Chinese statement
> 
> 
> English translation
> ...



I'll be very sad if those are really a limited edition of only 100. 

I would consider the whole "limited edition of only 100" and "sold out" bit to be a cruel joke. 
That green is making me weak in the knees. They belong in a trophy case.




Black cables and black whirlwind eartips would be just about perfect.


----------



## 1clearhead (Feb 18, 2019)

DocHoliday said:


> I'll be very sad if those are really a limited edition of only 100.
> 
> I would consider the whole "limited edition of only 100" and "sold out" bit to be a cruel joke.
> That green is making me weak in the knees. They belong in a trophy case.
> ...


----------



## 1clearhead

@DocHoliday 
I did 3 attempts to purchase them on 3 different taobao stores, but was "sold-out"! Then, today I tried another taobao store and was able to grab one! 
I don't know if they're limited at 100 per store, or 100 split between certain stores that carry them...?


----------



## Gazd (Feb 18, 2019)

KevDzn said:


> Just do a search in Aliexpress. There's only 2 stores selling it and they are related.


Well I think I'll get it from AK audio. This is my first time buying things from AliExpress so I'm pretty nervous. Hope that AK audio is legit. Their rates are incredibly high


----------



## kookaudio

Am I the only one here not seeing the ZSN PRO on AE stores, even on the official KZ one...?


----------



## gazzington

Hi, would the zs7 suit metal?


----------



## gbrgbr

kookaudio said:


> Am I the only one here not seeing the ZSN PRO on AE stores, even on the official KZ one...?


check the slide show on the top of the web page. it's says 'coming soon'.


----------



## Slater

kadas152 said:


> That’s really cool! Can you share more info about tuning mods you have done to make them more neutral?



No vent holes in rear cover, and I added a small vent below the nozzle with a micro drill bit.

Although it’s not for the faint of heart. You have to know where to put the vent, get it the right size, make sure you don’t damage the drivers, and make sure you don’t drop any shavings down inside.

A _much_ safer method for most people would be the string mod Otto came up with (although I’ve never done it myself):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chi...hones-and-iems.820747/page-1471#post-14775557


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> *ZSN Pro Ultra Edition:*
> 
> - Genuine Carbon Fiber Faceplates
> - Tuned more neutral
> ...



Now I’d like those Cabons in all black like Doc suggested and I’m with B9 original KZ logo the green faceplate needs a smoke gray shell, may very well be the best looking KZ yet


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

I'm a minimalist!





 







Slater said:


> So basically you’ll wear these as long as they sound good haha:


----------



## TechnoidFR

1clearhead said:


> I don't know if what they're selling overseas are the same as the ZSN PRO's in China, but these are the ones I'm trying to grab!
> The back plate is "green" and tuned differently from the other 3 ZSN's! ...Say what?
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting
They launch a new hype for collector and buzz around then. An efficient marketing I think


----------



## Mouseman

TechnoidFR said:


> Interesting
> They launch a new hype for collector and buzz around then. An efficient marketing I think


I have to admit, they are pretty....
If headphone manufacturers start releasing the equivalent of Beanie Babies (or Pokemons), we are all in a *LOT *of trouble! (Yes, I've seen the posting about the new Hyla IEMs, but thankfully that's way out of my price range and not a real temptation).


----------



## Slater (Feb 18, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> I have to admit, they are pretty....
> If headphone manufacturers start releasing the equivalent of Beanie Babies (or Pokemons), we are all in a *LOT *of trouble! (Yes, I've seen the posting about the new Hyla IEMs, but thankfully that's way out of my price range and not a real temptation).



How much is it? I hope it’s not ridiculously priced just because it’s rare.

The normal ZSN is $12-$14.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Gazd said:


> Well I think I'll get it from AK audio. This is my first time buying things from AliExpress so I'm pretty nervous. Hope that AK audio is legit. Their rates are incredibly high



I ordered mine at the MissAudio store and everything went well.


----------



## rambomhtri

I don't know where can I ask specific questions about the KZ ZS7: here, in a specific ZS7 (if exists I couldn't find it), create a new thread...
Should this page have a thread of a specific model so owners and future owners can talk about the product?

I'm a little lost maybe.


----------



## Slater

rambomhtri said:


> I don't know where can I ask specific questions about the KZ ZS7: here, in a specific ZS7 (if exists I couldn't find it), create a new thread...
> Should this page have a thread of a specific model so owners and future owners can talk about the product?
> 
> I'm a little lost maybe.



This thread is for KZs (which the ZS7 is), so ask away friend.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Mouseman said:


> I have to admit, they are pretty....
> If headphone manufacturers start releasing the equivalent of Beanie Babies (or Pokemons), we are all in a *LOT *of trouble! (Yes, I've seen the posting about the new Hyla IEMs, but thankfully that's way out of my price range and not a real temptation).



Or they test the market with new signature to see feefbfee


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 18, 2019)

Thanks!
Well, I've just bought the KZ ZS7 with no mic, will receive them in 2 weeks I guess, and a bunch of questions assaulted me:

1. I've read the silicon tips that come with them are bad. That's why I ordered a foam tips pack from KZ, just in case. Do they really suck?
I've never (may be once) complained about silicone tips, and I've been using dozens of low level cheap earphones all my life with different silicon tips.

2. Some reviewers (I've seen a lot of reviewers analyzing the ZS7) say the original tips make the ZS7 sound bad, and then they put other tips (normally Comply brand?) and suddenly it's all improved. I agree tips may change a little bit the sound, specially if you go from foam to silicone (I guess, never used foam before), but from "bad" to "good"?
Tips can make the experience more comfortable, sure, and there are tips that may not suit your ear, but those that do, I can't imagine how could you ever go, in terms of sound quality, from bad to good.

3. The case is all metal, I guess both blue and black parts. Do they get very cold?
I was all happy about the case being made of metal, much better than plastic, but then I though about the temperature and I really don't like the idea that each time I put them on I feel a painfully cold gadget in on my ear.

4. Many reviewers say the cable is very bad and make the ZS7 sound bad. They recommend to change the cable by some "silver/gold/copper" $20 cable so the IEM's can sound good. Some of them behave just like with the tips: from bad to good sounding. Now this is new to me... A cable that changes drastically the sound? I'm having hard time imagining how a cable can make a difference in the sound of an IEM. Is this true or BS?

5. Some people say ZS7 have "sibling". I don't even know what that is. Is it true?
I guess it's that the "s" sounding phonemes sound harsh, and that sound scary, I mean, like a major problem.

6. Do they stay in place?
Some reviewers say you will have to adjust them every 20 minutes or so, because they tend to pop-out the ear. I reckon in some reviewers they looked a little loose, like they were not "locked" in the ear at all.
Are they comfortable to wear for 2 hours?

7. And finally, what extra things have you bought with them or use with them: I bought these tips, I use this cable, I noticed using this they improve a lot...
I bought the Bluetooth cable so I can make them wireless, which I think is dope, but I'm not sure if I should order any extra thing that can improve my experience with the ZS7.


----------



## rambomhtri

Gazd said:


> Does anyone know where on AliExpress is legit enough to buy a official kz zs7? Thank you


What do you mean?
I bought yesterday a pair, they cost around 35-40€. You search ZS7 and they appear almost the first item.


----------



## Slater (Feb 18, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> Thanks!
> Well, I've just bought the KZ ZS7 with no mic, will receive them in 2 weeks I guess, and a bunch of questions assaulted me:
> 
> 1. I've read the silicon tips that come with them are bad. That's why I ordered a foam tips pack from KZ, just in case. Do they really suck?
> ...



Everyone’s ear anatomy is different, but I love the stock tips with mine. KZ Starlines are hands down the best tips KZ makes. I guess if someone has the wrong size tips on, or their ear canals are an in between size, then the stock tips may not work. For example, some people have ear canals so large that the L size tips are still too small. There’s also some people who have 2 different sized ear canals - for example they need a M tip in 1 ear and a L tip in the other. But that had nothing to do with the ZS7 specifically, and would affect every IEM in the world.

Foam tips reduce treble, because the foam absorbs high frequencies. The ZS7 already has reduced treble, so it will make the ZS7 sound like it has even less treble than it already does. I guess if foam tips are the only way you can use an IEM they are OK, but I personally avoid them. They wear out and need to be replaced quite often, and they collect dirt and gunk and can’t be cleaned like silicone tips. But that’s a personal preference, and there’s some people that love foam tips. It depends on what you like, not what someone else likes.

As far as being cold, if you live in Siberia or northern Canada, and store your IEMs in your car’s glovebox, then get in your car and put the ZS7 in your ears, then yeah it will be cold. But if you keep your IEMs in your house, you won’t have any problems.

As far as falling out and needing adjustment, that can be caused by a lot of things. Not having the ear wires adjusted to the right shape can do that. So can using eartips that are too small. So can using silicone ear tips while having ear canals that are sweaty or full of slippery ear wax. Finally, if your ears just aren’t a good fit for the shape of the ZS7, it will result in poor fit. But again, these issues affect every IEM in the world.

I personally find my ZS7 super comfortable. I can wear them all day with no adjusting. But they fit my ear size and shape properly, and I clean my ears every time before using any IEM. I use the stock M Starline eartip, because it fits me properly and sounds good.

As far as sibilance, I find that the ZS7 has zero sibilance (in my opinion). Some KZs do have it; the ZS7 does not. However, it can be in the recording too (as it originates by using a sibilant microphone), in which case you’ll hear the sibilance in the recording no matter what.

Regarding the cable itself, the stock cables are perfectly adequate. But if you want to, you could buy an upgraded cable. They have cables ranging from $7 to $700. Is a fancy cable going to turn every IEM into a magical unicorn with sparkles and rainbows? The short answer is ‘no’.

You can, however, change the cable for such features as better looks, better build quality, reducing microphonics, gaining a chin slider, lowering impedance, adding or removing a microphone/music controls, or changing from a metal ear wire to a preformed rubber ear guide (which many find more comfortable). Those are all physical, tangible, and measurable changes. It’s hotly debated whether or not some cables actually change the sound or not. So my advice is don’t buy a cable hoping it will change/improve the sound. Buy it for the physical features you desire (different ear hooks or reduced microphonics for example). Then you won’t have to worry what camp you’re in (does it change the sound or not).

I personally use heavier weight upgraded cables with low impedance and no mic on mine, because I don’t like the stock metal memory wires. And even then I remove the pre-molded ear guide. But that’s strictly a personal preference.

Finally, keep in mind that every Billy Bob Joe Schmoe on YouTube and with a blog is now a “reviewer”. Most have very little to absolutely no experience, and many just do it for free product. So you really have to take reviews for a grain of salt. There’s actually only a handful of people that I personally trust as reviewers, but only because I know them by now, know what type of music they like, they are experienced, and their views are aligned with mine.

But one thing you can trust more than anyone else’s opinion is your own ears. No one else’s ears will fit like yours. No one else will hear what you hear. No one else can tell you what you like or don’t like but you. So do your own listening. Form your own opinion. Learn what you like and don’t like. As the saying goes, opinions are like arseholes; everybody’s got one.


----------



## mbwilson111

Gazd said:


> Well I think I'll get it from AK audio. This is my first time buying things from AliExpress so I'm pretty nervous. Hope that AK audio is legit. Their rates are incredibly high



Don't worry.  They are reliable.


----------



## zazaboy

the reason why they advice you for other tips they tame the treble and the harshness of the soundsignature some of  kz iems  dont sound well on all tracks foam improves this but not always I have kz zs6 it sounds good on some tracks but bad on poorly mastered tracks or low bitrate tracks sound off ... foams improves this but not much


----------



## rambomhtri

OK, thank you!


----------



## kennyhack

rambomhtri said:


> Thanks!
> Well, I've just bought the KZ ZS7 with no mic, will receive them in 2 weeks I guess, and a bunch of questions assaulted me:
> 
> 1. I've read the silicon tips that come with them are bad. That's why I ordered a foam tips pack from KZ, just in case. Do they really suck?
> ...


Even though people might say that upgrading cables don't change sound (I respect it) , from my experience, and especially with ZS7 I can say that there's a noticeable change in increased soundstage, airyness, instrument separation and treble extension. I bought a 20$ 8-core silver plated copper cable and I find that is more than enough of an upgrade not only in sound quality but comfort and usability.


----------



## rambomhtri

kennyhack said:


> Even though people might say that upgrading cables don't change sound (I respect it) , from my experience, and especially with ZS7 I can say that there's a noticeable change in increased soundstage, airyness, instrument separation and treble extension. I bought a 20$ 8-core silver plated copper cable and I find that is more than enough of an upgrade not only in sound quality but comfort and usability.


Really? Which one did you buy? Link?

About the sound quality: do you really think or perceive it improves the sound quality?
Sounds like snake oil to me... I mean, we are not comparing a copper cable vs stone age ultimate survivor cable.

The reason why I would buy a new cabe is comfort and utility. What the original KZ cable lacks, or what the new replacement cable really improves?

Thank you.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 18, 2019)

kennyhack said:


> Even though people might say that upgrading cables don't change sound (I respect it) , from my experience, and especially with ZS7 I can say that there's a noticeable change in increased soundstage, airyness, instrument separation and treble extension. I bought a 20$ 8-core silver plated copper cable and I find that is more than enough of an upgrade not only in sound quality but comfort and usability.


Cables should make some difference, as long as the impedance is noticeably different.
My limited experience with my favourite KZ AS10 is that they surprisingly work better for me with its stock cable (1-1.2 Ohm), compared to several other cables (under $25) that I tried and using them with the balanced output. The impedance matching is definitely involved (my hypothesis is that my DAP is rated for 16 Ohm and higher IEMs, and then 14 plus 1.2 is closer to 16 than 16 plus 0.3) 

Tips are by far more impactful investment that makes a lot of difference, in my opinion/experience.
To add, I second the opinion that KZ starline tips are quite good and definitely should be tested carefully to see if they can be your best tips (for me they work very well for ZSN with its nice comfortable fit).


----------



## purplesun (Feb 19, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Cables should make some difference, as long as the impedance is noticeably different.
> My limited experience with my favourite KZ AS10 is that they surprisingly work better for me with its stock cable (1-1.2 Ohm), compared to several other cables (under $25) that I tried and using them with the balanced output. The impedance matching is definitely involved (my hypothesis is that my DAP is rated for 16 Ohm and higher IEMs, and then 14 plus 1.2 is closer to 16 than 16 plus 0.3)


To add a bit more on impedance matching, there's also the issue of impedances varying with signal frequency. AFAIK, most quoted impedances are measure at 1khz (assuming it wasn't plucked off the air). It can quite daunting to translate a bunch of electronic measurements into sound quality at finer resolution. So, generally, the listener's ear (with some practice) is the least complicated measuring instrument; if it sounds good to you, that's all that matter. Though a simple understanding of frequency response of personal listening preference is a good starting point to create a shortlist of earphones to choose from. After that, throw away the FR graphs and use the million-year-old road-tested listening device, human ears,  from then on out. IMHO, of course!


----------



## 1clearhead

TechnoidFR said:


> Interesting
> They launch a new hype for collector and buzz around then. An efficient marketing I think


I'm actually just curious of the different tuning adjustment they did. Maybe, they changed the crossover board, or changed the dynamic driver or BA armature or even both all together! I'm sure, that's where the price difference differs, not just the color scheme. Well? I'm hoping that's why they call it ZSN PRO's.

For what it's worth, once I receive mine, I'll be writing a comparison between the ZSN PRO, original ZSN, and throw in the C10 in the mix to see if the ZSN PRO can hang.


----------



## DynamicEars

1clearhead said:


> I'm actually just curious of the different tuning adjustment they did. Maybe, they changed the crossover board, or changed the dynamic driver or BA armature or even both all together! I'm sure, that's where the price difference differs, not just the color scheme. Well? I'm hoping that's why they call it ZSN PRO's.
> 
> For what it's worth, once I receive mine, I'll be writing a comparison between the ZSN PRO, original ZSN, and throw in the C10 in the mix to see if the ZSN PRO can hang.



im waiting clear


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> im waiting clear


----------



## Gazd

mbwilson111 said:


> Don't worry.  They are reliable.


Ok will get it from them


----------



## Gazd

Oh and I'm wondering why is the kz zs7 don't appear on the kz official AliExpress store?


----------



## 1clearhead

Gazd said:


> Oh and I'm wondering why is the kz zs7 don't appear on the kz official AliExpress store?


They're not even available here in China. ...Darn it, KZ!


----------



## Gazd

1clearhead said:


> They're not even available here in China. ...Darn it, KZ!


That's weird


----------



## rambomhtri

Yeah, that's weird, how is KZ selling a very famous new ZS7 IEM and not even showing it in its page or store?

I don't understand, if it weren't for you guys and other reviews, I'd think the model ZS7 is a joke or fake.


----------



## Slater

rambomhtri said:


> Yeah, that's weird, how is KZ selling a very famous new ZS7 IEM and not even showing it in its page or store?
> 
> I don't understand, if it weren't for you guys and other reviews, I'd think the model ZS7 is a joke or fake.



Despite the name, I think that store is just a reseller. They often get models well after other sellers. And they don’t always have every KZ model other sellers do.


----------



## Gazd

rambomhtri said:


> Yeah, that's weird, how is KZ selling a very famous new ZS7 IEM and not even showing it in its page or store?
> 
> I don't understand, if it weren't for you guys and other reviews, I'd think the model ZS7 is a joke or fake.


Well it's so weird for kz to do so... should I buy it? I'm in doubt


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Gazd said:


> Well I think I'll get it from AK audio. This is my first time buying things from AliExpress so I'm pretty nervous. Hope that AK audio is legit. Their rates are incredibly high



I've ordered my **** from AK audio 37 days ago and they still haven't sent it out. I've ordered from 6 other stores in the mean time and most of them dispatched within a day.



rambomhtri said:


> Thanks!
> Well, I've just bought the KZ ZS7 with no mic, will receive them in 2 weeks I guess, and a bunch of questions assaulted me:
> 
> 1. I've read the silicon tips that come with them are bad. That's why I ordered a foam tips pack from KZ, just in case. Do they really suck?
> ...



The original tips diminish the treble, I've replaced them with spiral dots and like the sound much better.



> 3. The case is all metal, I guess both blue and black parts. Do they get very cold?
> I was all happy about the case being made of metal, much better than plastic, but then I though about the temperature and I really don't like the idea that each time I put them on I feel a painfully cold gadget in on my ear.



Only the faceplate is metal, the black part is plastic. They don't get very cold, they are pretty heavy though.



> 4. Many reviewers say the cable is very bad and make the ZS7 sound bad. They recommend to change the cable by some "silver/gold/copper" $20 cable so the IEM's can sound good. Some of them behave just like with the tips: from bad to good sounding. Now this is new to me... A cable that changes drastically the sound? I'm having hard time imagining how a cable can make a difference in the sound of an IEM. Is this true or BS?



I don't think the original cable is bad, I upgraded to a balanced silver plated cable and I think the improved sound is mostly because of the balanced output being slightly better.



> 5. Some people say ZS7 have "sibling". I don't even know what that is. Is it true?
> I guess it's that the "s" sounding phonemes sound harsh, and that sound scary, I mean, like a major problem.



The ZS7 aren't sibilant at all. Any harshness that I sometimes experienced in the beginning went away after some use.



> 6. Do they stay in place?
> Some reviewers say you will have to adjust them every 20 minutes or so, because they tend to pop-out the ear. I reckon in some reviewers they looked a little loose, like they were not "locked" in the ear at all.
> Are they comfortable to wear for 2 hours?



Compared to my AS10 and C10 the ZS7 are the most comfortable to wear, I use them the most. They stick out a bit, which is why I sometimes feel like I should be pushing them in a bit deeper, that then turns out not to be possible.



> 7. And finally, what extra things have you bought with them or use with them: I bought these tips, I use this cable, I noticed using this they improve a lot...
> I bought the Bluetooth cable so I can make them wireless, which I think is dope, but I'm not sure if I should order any extra thing that can improve my experience with the ZS7.



I use them with spiral dots tips, standard silver plated KZ balanced upgrade cable and the FiiO X7 MK II as a source.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Gazd said:


> Well it's so weird for kz to do so... should I buy it? I'm in doubt



I bought the C10, AS10 and ZS7 at the same time, was expecting to regret getting the ZS7 as well, now they have turned out to be my favorite of the three.


----------



## Gazd

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I bought the C10, AS10 and ZS7 at the same time, was expecting to regret getting the ZS7 as well, now they have turned out to be my favorite of the three.


Is true that the KZ ZS7 have all the strong site of all other KZ's headphones? And where did you get the KZ Zs7 from?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Gazd said:


> Is true that the KZ ZS7 have all the strong site of all other KZ's headphones? And where did you get the KZ Zs7 from?



I got mine from the MissAudio store at AliExpress. From what I've read they are an improvement to the ZS6. I only have the AS10 and C10 to compare with (ZS7 being my favorite) and the ZS7 are brighter sounding, have a smooth treble, with a more three dimensional soundstage, very good instrument separation and solid bass with a good slam and nice texture. They have a u-shaped sound with slightly recessed lower mids. They are very comfortable to wear, pretty small, but relatively thick and a bit heavy. They have a really fun exciting sound that makes music come to life, especially good for electronic sound and percussion. The other two are better for accoustic sound and music that isn't supposed to sound exciting.


----------



## Gazd

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I got mine from the MissAudio store at AliExpress. From what I've read they are an improvement to the ZS6. I only have the AS10 and C10 to compare with (ZS7 being my favorite) and the ZS7 are brighter sounding, have a smooth treble, with a more three dimensional soundstage, very good instrument separation and solid bass with a good slam and nice texture. They have a u-shaped sound with slightly recessed lower mids. They are very comfortable to wear, pretty small, but relatively thick and a bit heavy. They have a really fun exciting sound that makes music come to life, especially good for electronic sound and percussion. The other two are better for accoustic sound and music that isn't supposed to sound exciting.


I heard that the ZS7 is a presale product or something which I don't really understand. So it's like a limited edition or something? And will never be officially introduce on KZ official AliExpress page?


----------



## Slater

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Only the faceplate is metal, the black part is plastic. They don't get very cold, they are pretty heavy though.



ZS7 is 100% metal. No plastic at all.


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> To add a bit more on impedance matching, there's also the issue of impedances varying with signal frequency. AFAIK, most quoted impedances are measure at 1khz (assuming it wasn't plucked off the air). It can quite daunting to translate a bunch of electronic measurements into sound quality at finer resolution. So, generally, the listener's ear (with some practice) is the least complicated measuring instrument; if it sounds good to you, that's all that matter. Though a simple understanding of frequency response of personal listening preference is a good starting point to create a shortlist of earphones to choose from. After that, throw away the FR graphs and use the million-year-old road-tested listening device, human ears,  from then on out. IMHO, of course!


Absolutely, you are correct, the IEM impedance is frequency-dependent and may even become power-dependent for non-linear dissipative loads.
The impedance matching is commonly performed just for the resistance (ohmic) component of the impedance, and the values quoted by manufacturers correspond closely (within an ohm) to simple DC ohmic resistance measurements, which I did to have some reality check.

Similarly, FR curves are a useful starting point.
They do not tell the story of response times and decay times, as well as a response to multiple frequencies (as in real music). Consequently, FR graphs inevitably overglorify single-DD IEMs, and most people relying on curves end up choosing those, while the response of a single membrane to multiple frequencies in a range of 8-10 octaves may likely incur some cross-interference (in my limited opinion).


----------



## rambomhtri

Slater said:


> ZS7 is 100% metal. No plastic at all.


So that means they get cold?

I mean, at room temperature (20ºC or 70ºF), try to put your house keys in your ear. It's quite cold, I imagine a full device touching a larger area (your entire ear) will feel worse.
May be they have a coat of something that doesn't get that cold?


----------



## Slater (Feb 19, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> So that means they get cold?
> 
> I mean, at room temperature (20ºC or 70ºF), try to put your house keys in your ear. It's quite cold, I imagine a full device touching a larger area (your entire ear) will feel worse.
> May be they have a coat of something that doesn't get that cold?



I guess I’ve never really noticed it.

If my house is 70F, then all metal I touch throughout the day will be 70F as well, from my wristwatch to eating utensils to interior door knobs. None of those things have ever really bothered me before.

I can definitely see how it would be a problem if you keep your IEMs outside in your car. They would normalize to whatever the outside temperature is (cold or hot), which could be quite uncomfortable when you put them on.

I would say if you are extremely sensitive to temperature variations (or live in a very cold climate), then that may be something you should consider before getting metal IEMs.


----------



## rambomhtri

Slater said:


> I guess I’ve never really noticed it.
> 
> If my house is 70F, then all metal I touch throughout the day will be 70F as well, from my wristwatch to eating utensils to interior door knobs. None of those things have ever really bothered me before.
> 
> ...



Yes, your house should be about 70-80ºF, and yes, it would be like touching your wristwatch, forks, metal door knobs... those things have not bothered me neither, not even in winter when houses can get as low as 60ºF sometimes in normal winter conditions. The problem is, the ear is way more sensitive to cold or heat than your hand, I mean, you can bear cold things with your hand, or hot ones, but something cold or hot touching your ear is way more annoying.

I guess my question is very simple:
Have you ever put them ZS7's and got annoyed by the metal plates being cold?

That's all. By the way, I'm not asking this because I will leave them in very cold environments, I'm asking it because it's the first time I will use metal case IEM's and I was worry about it. Like most of you, I normally save them IEM's in my pocket while walking by the street, in my house's tables... nothing out of the box.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

It's 32 degrees outside and I am wearing semkarch cnt1 which are completely metal and I am fine.  I suppose it's all subjective. 

Any colder and I usually wear over ears though as they act as ear muffs and keep my ears warm.


----------



## Slater

rambomhtri said:


> I guess my question is very simple:
> Have you ever put them ZS7's and got annoyed by the metal plates being cold?



Nope.


----------



## robbomanx2

rambomhtri said:


> Yes, your house should be about 70-80ºF, and yes, it would be like touching your wristwatch, forks, metal door knobs... those things have not bothered me neither, not even in winter when houses can get as low as 60ºF sometimes in normal winter conditions. The problem is, the ear is way more sensitive to cold or heat than your hand, I mean, you can bear cold things with your hand, or hot ones, but something cold or hot touching your ear is way more annoying.
> 
> I guess my question is very simple:
> Have you ever put them ZS7's and got annoyed by the metal plates being cold?
> ...



Never had a problem with the metal housing in terms of comfort, not even in the winter outside. Seems like a non-issue to me tbh.


----------



## neo_styles

I'll include myself in the "ZS7 casing doesn't get too cold for comfort" and I do my morning commutes in freezing or below-freezing temps without issue. I also don't have to readjust, though I would suspect that those who do are using ill-fitting tips and finding the right size would remedy that. There have been a couple people here who report having better success with tips staying in place as long as they're clean; a quick dunk in some hydrogen peroxide (followed by a rinse and dry) can also help with this...obviously won't work very well on foam tips, though.

Regarding whether they're competent with metal, it'll come down to the production quality. Since the ZS7s really don't have an issue with sibilance in my experience, they should do just fine and the bass is more than fast enough to keep up with even 32-count double-kicks. That being said, I'm really digging the way the purple/silver ZSN works on this album. Really shows off its detail and strengths:



If you're finding things too congested with either pair, I'd suggest bringing the lower midrange down a bit. Neutralizer for Android is my tool of choice. Well worth the initial investment to have presets for every KZ pair and I prefer its more intuitive form of EQ tuning.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm) (Feb 19, 2019)

Gazd said:


> I heard that the ZS7 is a presale product or something which I don't really understand. So it's like a limited edition or something? And will never be officially introduce on KZ official AliExpress page?



It is supposed to be a limited edition, I don't know why. I have no idea why the original store doesn't sell it, it is really odd.



Slater said:


> ZS7 is 100% metal. No plastic at all.



That is strange, the black part doesn't look or feel like metal at all. I've never noticed it getting cold either.

BTW: I've been looking for an eight core silver plated 2.5mm balanced cable for my KZ's, but all I can find on AliExpress is ones with earphone connectors of the wrong gender. Are there any with the right earphone connectors? I don't want my earphones to fall off the connectors.


----------



## neo_styles (Feb 19, 2019)

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> It is supposed to be a limited edition, I don't know why. I have no idea why the original store doesn't sell it, it is really odd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This should do you just fine. Make sure you select the 2.5mm jack with 0.75mm connector option.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...2Pin-0-75-0-78mm-Connector-3/32946020684.html

As far as KZ Official not selling the ZS7, that's happened on multiple occasions. My guess is these third-party vendors score exclusive selling rights with KZ in those cases. Both myself and my coworker now own ZS7s and I can confirm looking at both pairs that they're authentic.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

neo_styles said:


> This should do you just fine. Make sure you select the 2.5mm jack with 0.75mm connector option.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRN...2Pin-0-75-0-78mm-Connector-3/32946020684.html



Thanks! Do these have the female plugs? It's a bit hard to see in the photos.


----------



## neo_styles

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Thanks! Do these have the female plugs? It's a bit hard to see in the photos.


If you're looking for a KZ-compatible cable, you shouldn't be using female connectors to the earpieces anyway. Are you trying to adapt to a ZSN? If that's the case, a Type C connector would be what you're after, but it's not a requirement for fit. If that's the case, then I'm not sure if anybody's done that yet.

Fwiw, I can use my ZSNs with any Type A cable just fine and don't have ill effects with the connectors staying in place. The connector won't sleeve over the entire plug on each earpiece, but it takes a really close eye to see that.


----------



## neo_styles

Figured I'd share the Neutralizer curve I'm using on my ZSNs via a OnePlus 6. I never hear 16K come through when EQing any pair, so no adjustments are made there.



Spoiler


----------



## rambomhtri

Wow, a guy that already has the Campfire Audio Andromeda compares them to the KZ ZS7:
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/afpm44/andromedas_vs_kz_zs7/

He doesn't seem to miss the $1000 Andromeda's, which I find weird and amazing at the same time...

How is it possible that a $50 IEM can compete with a $1000 IEM?
The guy's not biased because he spent his money to buy Andromeda's and then the ZS7. A comment says "this has to be a joke" and the poster says it's not.


----------



## FastAndClean

rambomhtri said:


> Wow, a guy that already has the Campfire Audio Andromeda compares them to the KZ ZS7:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/afpm44/andromedas_vs_kz_zs7/
> 
> He doesn't seem to miss the $1000 Andromeda's, which I find weird and amazing at the same time...
> ...


its a matter of taste, not necessary that it can compete with 1000$ IEM


----------



## neo_styles

rambomhtri said:


> How is it possible that a $50 IEM can compete with a $1000 IEM?


They probably come close enough to matching that person's particular tastes in sound signature. Campfire also invests a lot more in materials, labor, and quality control and, since they're a US-based company, probably have to pay their workers a little more than a dollar/day.

One of these days before I move out of the Pacific Northwest, I'm going to have to make a trip down to OR to see Campfire HQ. I'm sure it's an absolute feast for the eyes (and ears).


----------



## Slater (Feb 19, 2019)

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> That is strange, the black part doesn't look or feel like metal at all. I've never noticed it getting cold either.



Not strange at all friend. You just have to know what to look for.

The entire shell, including the black part, is anodized aluminum with a sand blasted finish.

You can tell the black part is aluminum by touching it up your lips (it will feel cool because it’s acting as a heat sink to your body).

If you examine the laser engraved model number with a magnifying glass or jewelers loupe, you will see where it is bare (silver) aluminum, because the engraving has gone through the black anodizing and into the bare metal.

You can also tell by gently rubbing it against your teeth. It will have an unmistakable metallic ‘grainy’ feel.

Also, if you gently tap it against your teeth, it will have an unmistakable metal tone and feel.

Plastic feels completely different.

Finally, you can put the whole IEM in the freezer for 5-10 minutes. Pull it out and touch it to your lips. It will be ice cold. Plastic will not.

I don’t know what else to tell you.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Not strange at all friend. You just have to know what to look for.
> 
> The entire shell, including the black part, is anodized aluminum with a sand blasted finish.
> 
> ...


Let it be known from hereon out that Slater has trademarked the "Lip Touch Metal Test" for authenticity...


----------



## rambomhtri

Hahahaha, that was really funny actually, but yeah, it's a nice fast way to tell plastic from metal using organic 100% eco-friendly testing. Nice joke though.

If I was making a metal shell, I'd coat it with a material that doesn't get cold, may be a thin coat of resin or something, but then, the looks would worsen I guess. Also, this just came to my mind now:
If both the blue and black shells are treated/finished... will they easily get scratched and ugly?


----------



## BoZ29

The zs7 are specially made for a specific reseller by KZ. I think they are something really special as I cannot stop listening... This is a song that proofs how good they are:


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

neo_styles said:


> If you're looking for a KZ-compatible cable, you shouldn't be using female connectors to the earpieces anyway. Are you trying to adapt to a ZSN? If that's the case, a Type C connector would be what you're after, but it's not a requirement for fit. If that's the case, then I'm not sure if anybody's done that yet.
> 
> Fwiw, I can use my ZSNs with any Type A cable just fine and don't have ill effects with the connectors staying in place. The connector won't sleeve over the entire plug on each earpiece, but it takes a really close eye to see that.



I guess these plugs are a weird combination of male-type metal and female-type plastic. The A (ZS7) and B (AS10 and C10) types look almost the same, with the A type just being slightly smaller.



Slater said:


> Not strange at all friend. You just have to know what to look for.
> 
> The entire shell, including the black part, is anodized aluminum with a sand blasted finish.
> 
> ...



From the tooth test it is clear that it is indeed metal. Thanks for the tips, I feel like I want to try them all now :^D


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 19, 2019)

Regarding headphone audio cables...
I believe there are like 2 standards for IEM's: 2 pin connector and MMCX connector (besides jack plug).

The best thing you can do is buying a headphone that supports one of these 2 connections, so you can use "any" universal standard cable instead of having to find your manufacturer specific "weird" connector he invented.
Is this the problem you're having with those KZ IEM's? They use non standard KZ specific connectors?

By the way... the cable that comes with the KZ ZS7 is balanced or unbalanced?
Should I get both balanced and unbalanced cables to check which one works better with the KZ ZS7?
Are balanced and unbalanced cables compatible with any headphone or you need to have a headphone that can specifically support them?



BoZ29 said:


> The zs7 are specially made for a specific reseller by KZ. I think they are something really special as I cannot stop listening... This is a song that proofs how good they are:



Wow, that's one really sweet tune, thanks for sharing. I just didn't like the whistle... why?


----------



## PhonoPhi

rambomhtri said:


> Hahahaha, that was really funny actually, but yeah, it's a nice fast way to tell plastic from metal using organic 100% eco-friendly testing. Nice joke though.
> 
> If I was making a metal shell, I'd coat it with a material that doesn't get cold, may be a thin coat of resin or something, but then, the looks would worsen I guess. Also, this just came to my mind now:
> If both the blue and black shells are treated/finished... will they easily get scratched and ugly?



The resin would be prone to scratches.

The finish on aluminum housing is made by anodization that produces a film of aluminum oxide, which is much harder than aluminum.


----------



## mbwilson111

rambomhtri said:


> By the way... the cable that comes with the KZ ZS7 is balanced or unbalanced?
> Should I get both balanced and unbalanced cables to check which one works better with the KZ ZS7?
> Are balanced and unbalanced cables compatible with any headphone or you need to have a headphone that can specifically support them?



To use a balanced cable you have to have a source that specifically includes a balanced output.


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 19, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> To use a balanced cable you have to have a source that specifically includes a balanced output.


what kind of devices include that?
I guess your regular smartphone don't, right?

Oh, wait... do balanced cables have 3 rings? to include an extra ring for the balance cable?

I mean, if there's no microphone, a regular stereo cable has 2 rings, separating 3 sections: right, left channels and ground.

If you have a microphone, you need another ring, 3 rings, 4 sections, one extra for the mic.

If you have a balanced cable you need 4 sections, left and right channels, the ground and the balanced cable section.

I guess if you want a balanced cable with mic you would need 5 rings, or 6 to balance the mic cable as well?

This is getting confusing.


----------



## sino8r

neo_styles said:


> Let it be known from hereon out that Slater has trademarked the "Lip Touch Metal Test" for authenticity...



Lol! I always do the same thing and tap it on my teeth when aluminum looks like resin or plastic and vise versa. It reminds me of the those gold prospectors back in the day bending the gold coin with their teeth to see if it's real or just tin.

Oh and please let us know how the Campfire visit goes! I'd (and I'm sure many others) would love to know if they have a tour or anything. Grab a sample product too lol! I really want an Atlas so bad but can't justify spending that much on an iem. The IMR R1 Zenith is as far as I have gone. They sound really amazing but the AS10 or ZS7 isn't far behind. So that really says something about KZ!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

rambomhtri said:


> Regarding headphone audio cables...
> I believe there are like 2 standards for IEM's: 2 pin connector and MMCX connector (besides jack plug).
> 
> The best thing you can do is buying a headphone that supports one of these 2 connections, so you can use "any" universal standard cable instead of having to find your manufacturer specific "weird" connector he invented.
> Is this the problem you're having with those KZ IEM's? They use non standard KZ specific connectors?



Yes, with KZ the pins are slightly recessed into the plastic housing of the plug, the plastic provides extra grip and stability for the connection, covering the connector on the earpiece. I think this should also help to diminish the chance of the pins getting bent.



> By the way... the cable that comes with the KZ ZS7 is balanced or unbalanced?
> Should I get both balanced and unbalanced cables to check which one works better with the KZ ZS7?
> Are balanced and unbalanced cables compatible with any headphone or you need to have a headphone that can specifically support them?



It comes with a standard non-balanced cable. If you have a source with a balanced output, it could have better quality. Any headphones with detachable cables on both sides can support a balanced cable.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 19, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> what kind of devices include that?
> I guess your regular smartphone don't, right?
> 
> Oh, wait... do balanced cables have 4 rings? to include an extra ring for the balance cable?



The plug is called 4 pole...and yeah there is an extra ring.    Coming from the right earpiece will be the right wire and a ground wire.   From the left  earpiece is the left wire and the ground.  With a regular cable the two grounds come together at the plug.  With a balanced cable they are connected separately at the plug...hence the extra ring.   All of my balanced cables have 2.5mm plugs because two of my daps have 2.5mm balanced outputs (along with 3.5mm regular headphone outputs.)


BTW...a cable with a mic will also have that extra ring because of the wire for the mic...but this will be a 3.5mm plug.


To make things even more complicated some daps have a 3.5 mm balanced out and some have 4.4mm...so, not just 2.5mm.  I am not aware of any smartphones with balanced out.


----------



## rambomhtri

One question, what happens then if I connect a balanced cable to a non balanced jack female?
The cable will simply behave as an unbalanced cable or simply it won't work?

I really like this cable:






The problem is I don't like straight jack plugs, I prefer a 90 degree angle jack plug so I don't have a device with a spear pointing to infinity. What can you guys recommend me?


----------



## mbwilson111

rambomhtri said:


> One question, what happens then if I connect a balanced cable to a non balanced jack female?
> The cable will simply behave as an unbalanced cable or simply it won't work?



Just don't do it.  Some say you could damage your device.  I don't think you need to worry about balanced gear right now.  It's not the be all end all.


----------



## rambomhtri

mbwilson111 said:


> Just don't do it.  Some say you could damage your device.  I don't think you need to worry about balanced gear right now.  It's not the be all end all.


But that one picture only has 2 rings, which means it can't be balanced, unless it's a mono signal cable instead of a stereo signal cable. Right?


----------



## mbwilson111

rambomhtri said:


> But that one picture only has 2 rings, which means it can't be balanced, unless it's a mono signal cable instead of a stereo signal cable. Right?



The one in your photo is not balanced, no.   It is a normal stereo cable. 

My answer was in regard to you asking if you could use a balanced cable with a regular output.


----------



## rambomhtri

Weird, I'm reading that if you connect a balanced cable into an unbalanced output device (smartphone) the cable will simply become a regular stereo cable. I mean, it makes sense, if not, if it were dangerous for the device or IEM, then I couldn't buy almost any good quality cable since most of them are balanced. I mean, check out Aliexpress and search "2 pin cable for earphones". Most of them, if not all, are balanced.


----------



## nraymond

rambomhtri said:


> Weird, I'm reading that if you connect a balanced cable into an unbalanced output device (smartphone) the cable will simply become a regular stereo cable. I mean, it makes sense, if not, if it were dangerous for the device or IEM, then I couldn't buy almost any good quality cable since most of them are balanced. I mean, check out Aliexpress and search "2 pin cable for earphones". Most of them, if not all, are balanced.



It is dangerous, that's why balanced connectors are typically 2.5mm TRRS, or 4.4mm TRRS (Sony Pentaconn), or XLR. I use this adapter to connect my balanced headphones to an unbalanced source:

http://www.fiio.net/en/products/60

More on the cables:

https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 19, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> Most of them, if not all, are balanced.



That is not true...I can't figure out how you are getting that idea.  Are you sure you know what balanced is?


Most balanced cables for iems have 2.5mm plugs and will not fit into the 3.5mm jack on a phone or a dap without balanced output.


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 19, 2019)

Sorry if I'm wrong, but from what I can think of, there's no danger in using a smartphone (unbalanced output jack) with a balanced cable to an IEM.

What's dangerous I think is to use a balanced output with an unbalanced cable to an IEM.

Correct me if I'm wrong. 

I'm getting that idea because if you look for copper wire, silver coated 2 pin cables... almost all results, from $6 to $200 show balanced cables.


----------



## mbwilson111

rambomhtri said:


> Sorry if I'm wrong, but from what I can think of, there's no danger in using a smartphone (unbalanced output jack) with a balanced cable to an IEM.



You can with an adapter.


----------



## voicemaster

rambomhtri said:


> Thanks!
> Well, I've just bought the KZ ZS7 with no mic, will receive them in 2 weeks I guess, and a bunch of questions assaulted me:
> 
> 1. I've read the silicon tips that come with them are bad. That's why I ordered a foam tips pack from KZ, just in case. Do they really suck?
> ...


*I am using my ZS7 with TRN BT3 and TRN BT20. They works great imho. I prefer BT3 than BT20 because of the shape of ZS7 which is pretty edgy and with the locking mechanism of BT20, you can feel the edge part of ZS7 after using it for awhile.*


----------



## voicemaster

This is the proof that zs7 black part is metal. I sanded down the edgy part that touches my ear.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 19, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> I'm getting that idea because if you look for copper wire, silver coated 2 pin cables... almost all results, from $6 to $200 show balanced cables



Look at the options in those listings....where it says Color... choose 3.5mm and whether you want 2pin or mmcx

But, why not just use the stock cable?  I mostly use stock.


----------



## s8grave

Its not dangerous to use balaced cable through an adapter with the single ended output(TRRS -> TRS)
 But using standard single ended cable through adapter with a balanced output is dangerous cause you are shorting it, balanced outputs(and cables) have separate ground for each channel. 
For example - AK standard  pinout is R- R+ L- L+ so I see no problem going to single ended L+ R+ LR- with a proper adapter.


----------



## maxxevv

voicemaster said:


> *I am using my ZS7 with TRN BT3 and TRN BT20. They works great imho. I prefer BT3 than BT20 because of the shape of ZS7 which is pretty edgy and with the locking mechanism of BT20, you can feel the edge part of ZS7 after using it for awhile.*



I use the BT20 with the AS10 on commute.  

Mainly because the AS10 has better isolation comparatively. Relative to ones ears, I find the comfort levels between the ZS7 and AS10 are not too different for me.


----------



## Tweeters

maxxevv said:


> I use the BT20 with the AS10 on commute.
> 
> Mainly because the AS10 has better isolation comparatively. Relative to ones ears, I find the comfort levels between the ZS7 and AS10 are not too different for me.



Does the AS10 stick out of your ears a bit more than ZS7? Trying to get an idea of the size difference


----------



## Slater (Feb 19, 2019)

My 1st attempt at a KZ SPC 8-wire braided cable, dyed a custom ‘copper’ color:



Do you think it looks like a copper cable, or is the shade a little bit off?

I care about the _shade_ of color, not the amount of opaqueness of the color. This particular cable was in the dye too long, so it’s more vibrant/opaque. I need to leave it in the dye for less time, which will make it more transparent (but still the same shade of color).

This color looks especially good when paired with any of the ZS6 colors, as well as the blue ZS7.

    

However, if you folks don’t think it looks quite right, I have an idea for 1-2 more custom color combinations I can try to perhaps get the color even closer to true copper (for example it could use some pink in place of orange).

I’m also testing out my new light box for the 1st time. I can’t believe it took me this long to get one


----------



## sino8r

voicemaster said:


> This is the proof that zs7 black part is metal. I sanded down the edgy part that touches my ear.



Why didn't you just smack it on your teeth like the rest of us


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> Why didn't you just smack it on your teeth like the rest of us



He sanded it down because it was rubbing on his ear, causing a hot spot.

Here’s some other examples of ZS5 and ZS6 people have sanded down for more comfort:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2705#post-14711000


----------



## 1clearhead

neo_styles said:


> They probably come close enough to matching that person's particular tastes in sound signature. Campfire also invests a lot more in materials, labor, and quality control and, since they're a US-based company, probably have to pay their workers a little more than a dollar/day.
> 
> One of these days before I move out of the Pacific Northwest, I'm going to have to make a trip down to OR to see Campfire HQ. I'm sure it's an absolute feast for the eyes (and ears).


Another IEM that comes close to Andromeda's sound signature, in my opinion, are the Tanchjim Oxygen. 
After a few hours comparing the Andromeda's at my friends headphone shop in Beijing, China, the only difference I hear is the Oxygen having a slightly smaller soundstage.

Here are some PIC's on how they look like...
 

-Clear


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 19, 2019)

I've decided to no longer buy KZ iems before a mass amount of reviews have hit the forums or elsewhere. I'm currently reading a book on how Chinese companies do business and it's all about making money and not much else (hence the amount of various models shooting out of their design studios like rockets)...I'm really not interested in owning a hundred pairs of KZ's, just a few.

Of course, this financial plan is different for every company but it's made me realize I don't want to jump the gun on "bad" earphones anymore. I just want the best. I've spent $500+ on "bad" earphones and earbuds... it's time to take a step back and jump into quality.

With that being said, I'm not so sure I like my KZ ZSN earphones anymore... but I do now like my KZ ZS10's. They may have needed some serious burn in to sound good.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> Look at the options in those listings....where it says Color... choose 3.5mm and whether you want 2pin or mmcx
> 
> But, why not just use the stock cable?  I mostly use stock.


Agreed. KZ's stock cables are pretty dang good.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've decided to no longer buy KZ iems before a mass amount of reviews have hit the forums or elsewhere.



That’s good advice for anything you buy friend, not just KZ IEMs.

Otherwise, you’ll be what is known as an ‘early adopter’.

1. You assume the highest risk (of being unhappy with the purchase, having initial QC defects, getting half-baked products, etc).
2. You usually pay the highest price. 

And that’s just basic Economics 101, not specific to Chinese products.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> For what it's worth, once I receive mine, I'll be writing a comparison between the ZSN PRO, original ZSN, and throw in the C10 in the mix to see if the ZSN PRO can hang.


This quote means we're all holding you to it.  Thanks!


----------



## sino8r

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've decided to no longer buy KZ iems before a mass amount of reviews have hit the forums or elsewhere. I'm currently reading a book on how Chinese companies do business and it's all about making money and not much else (hence the amount of various models shooting out of their design studios like rockets)...I'm really not interested in owning a hundred pairs of KZ's, just a few.
> 
> Of course, this financial plan is different for every company but it's made me realize I don't want to jump the gun on "bad" earphones anymore. I just want the best. I've spent $500+ on "bad" earphones and earbuds... it's time to take a step back and jump into quality.
> 
> With that being said, I'm not so sure I like my KZ ZSN earphones anymore... but I do now like my KZ ZS10's. They may have needed some serious burn in to sound good.



Try ibasso or TFZ before giving up on chifi



Slater said:


> He sanded it down because it was rubbing on his ear, causing a hot spot.
> 
> Here’s some other examples of ZS5 and ZS6 people have sanded down for more comfort:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2705#post-14711000



I figured that much... I was kidding, Slater


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 19, 2019)

Slater said:


> That’s good advice for anything you buy friend, not just KZ IEMs.
> 
> Otherwise, you’ll be what is known as an ‘early adopter’.
> 
> ...


True, but I'm not aware of any other companies that release as many products as KZ, which is why I mentioned them. Sure, there are more surely, but they aren't on my radar. KZ's are too good, and it's so easy to buy them all. But I'm not doing that any longer nor am I trusting any Headfi user that says they're buying every single color of a particular model. What's the point? There is none.


----------



## Slater (Feb 20, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> True, but I'm not aware of any other companies that release as many products as KZ, which is why I mentioned them. Sure, there are more surely, but they aren't on my radar. KZ's are too good, and it's so easy to buy them all. But I'm not doing that any longer nor am I trusting any Headfi user that says they're buying every single color of a particular model. What's the point? There is none.



You ever seen how many IEM and earbud models Sony, Philips, Skull Candy, Pioneer, TFZ, and others release? It makes KZ look like child’s play.

As far as owning every color just for the sake of owing every color, yeah that’s an individual thing.

Some people collect IEMs, some do it because they have the money to burn.

Others do it because sometimes there’s tuning differences between colors (for example, the white and black Rock Zircons sound different, and some say the purple ZSN sounds different).

But to each their own. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. Some people buy lots of shoes, to go with different outfits or different occasions. Some buy different wrist watches (1 for business, 1 for casual, 1 for black tie affairs, 1 for scuba diving or hiking, etc). Jay Leno collects an insane number of cars.

But I’m with you; nowadays I usually don’t buy any gear until numerous impressions are out and I decide if I would even like that model. If I don’t  think I’d like it based on what people describe, or if I feel it would be a sidegrade, I skip it. It was one thing back when KZs were $4-$6 each. Now they’re commonly approaching $40-$80+ each.

And that’s true of not just KZ, but other brands as well. I’d be in the poor house if I blindly jumped on every FOTM hype train that came rolling through town (TRN, CCA, Moondrop, TFZ, things certain popular YouTube reviewers recommended, etc).


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> You ever seen how many IEM and earbud models Sony, Philips, Skull Candy, Pioneer, TFZ, and others release? It makes KZ look like child’s play.
> 
> that’s an individual thing.
> 
> Some people collect IEMs, some do it because they have the money to burn.



just like sound preferences and hearing abilities, I didn't think this needed to be even explained, but I guess it does.

I like KZ and chi-fi generally because I just like hearing about and playing with new toys. If I'm looking for absolute SQ, I know where to look for TOTLs.

That being said, I only buy new toys every other month now instead of every other week, so that's progress.


----------



## rambomhtri

I just asked the seller and yes, just a few lucky sellers made a deal with a KZ agent so they could sell the KZ ZS7's.

The thing is, I don't know why this fact is incompatible with KZ at least advertising the ZS7 in their web page. That really I don't understand.


----------



## Gazd

rambomhtri said:


> I just asked the seller and yes, just a few lucky sellers made a deal with a KZ agent so they could sell the KZ ZS7's.
> 
> The thing is, I don't know why this fact is incompatible with KZ at least advertising the ZS7 in their web page. That really I don't understand.


Agree. At least they should have advertised it on the Aliexpress page


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Maybe one of the components is in short supply or something (IIRC they said the release was limited to 1000 units), so if they advertise it it will sell out too fast or people will try to resell it at high prices.

Probably redundant, but I found an image clarifying what I mean with the KZ plugs.


----------



## rambomhtri

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Maybe one of the components is in short supply or something (IIRC they said the release was limited to 1000 units), so if they advertise it it will sell out too fast or people will try to resell it at high prices.
> 
> Probably redundant, but I found an image clarifying what I mean with the KZ plugs.



Wow, so that means our KZ IEM's including ZS7, don't have an universal standard 2 pin connector?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Apparently. The balanced cables I currently use are made by KZ and they have the right plugs. But from what I read here other 0.75mm connectors do work, I just wish there were more options with the correct plugs.


----------



## netsky3

Hi Guys, i recently bought a KZ ZST still brand new and i'm Loving it!!
After that I have read that KZ ZS10 is still better, even compared with 500$ earphones, like Shure 530 or something

Is that true? If it is I think i will buy it very soon, if worth for 40 bucks 

Or is better to have a good source first? Or a good amp?
I am too curious about this brand


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm currently reading a book on how Chinese companies do business and it's all about making money



Do you know of any companies that do not want to make money?



LaughMoreDaily said:


> nor am I trusting any Headfi user that says they're buying every single color of a particular model. What's the point? There is none.



Hey,  I don't buy jewelry... why not have two different colors of ZSNs?


----------



## Slater

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Maybe one of the components is in short supply or something (IIRC they said the release was limited to 1000 units), so if they advertise it it will sell out too fast or people will try to resell it at high prices.
> 
> Probably redundant, but I found an image clarifying what I mean with the KZ plugs.



You can use non-KZ 2-pin cables with your KZs. I use TRN as well as generic 2-pin cables with my KZs just fine.

Since they aren’t keyed with the rounded and flat ends, you just have to make sure you plug each cable in facing the proper direction so the IEM stays in phase.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you know of any companies that do not want to make money?


----------



## Tooros

Slater said:


> You can use non-KZ 2-pin cables with your KZs. I use TRN as well as generic 2-pin cables with my KZs just fine.
> 
> Since they aren’t keyed with the rounded and flat ends, you just have to make sure you plug each cable in facing the proper direction so the IEM stays in phase.


Dumb question: does it matter ‘which way round’ or just that both l+r are oriented the same.


----------



## rambomhtri

Slater said:


> You can use non-KZ 2-pin cables with your KZs. I use TRN as well as generic 2-pin cables with my KZs just fine.
> 
> Since they aren’t keyed with the rounded and flat ends, you just have to make sure you plug each cable in facing the proper direction so the IEM stays in phase.


What do you mean by "stays in the same phase"?
Does it matter if you plug the 2 pin cable in one way or another?

I mean, if the cable has one round side and one flat side, you only have one option, but if the cable admits connecting it regular and reverse... does that matter?
I've been working and repairing headphones for quite some time and I know it doesn't matter if you reverse, in the earpiece end, the ground with the left/right cable.


----------



## DynamicEars (Feb 20, 2019)

netsky3 said:


> After that I have read that KZ ZS10 is still better, even compared with 500$ earphones, like Shure 530 or something
> 
> Is that true? If it is I think i will buy it very soon, if worth for 40 bucks



NO, whoever telling you that, either he actually never try $500 earphones, or he paid overpriced $500 earphone that sounds like below $25 earphone.
Im sorry but that is the truth. Or he is the 1 of KZ company owner. Too much hyperbole hype around. be careful.

I own ZS10, its quite good, but tonality is off, mid bass a bit bleed, i suggest you better try C10, its their sister company, for around $28, surely better than ZS10. Or try BQEYZ , still below $50. KC2 or KB100.

what is your preference sound signature btw?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> You can use non-KZ 2-pin cables with your KZs. I use TRN as well as generic 2-pin cables with my KZs just fine.
> 
> Since they aren’t keyed with the rounded and flat ends, you just have to make sure you plug each cable in facing the proper direction so the IEM stays in phase.



Yes, they should be in phase. I'll try one of those cables then.


----------



## netsky3

DynamicEars said:


> NO, whoever telling you that, either he actually never try $500 earphones, or he paid overpriced $500 earphone that sounds like below $25 earphone.
> Im sorry but that is the truth. Or he is the 1 of KZ company owner. Too much hyperbole hype around. be careful.
> 
> I own ZS10, its quite good, but tonality is off, mid bass a bit bleed, i suggest you better try C10, its their sister company, for around $28, surely better than ZS10. Or try BQEYZ , still below $50. KC2 or KB100.
> ...



It was a review on youtube with many happy owner of the ZS10 say that they are awesome and better than mine
Good to know that. I will look for those models. I happily surprised from this ZST, for this i wish have another giant slayer, then buy a great dac/amp

I like the warm sound, not too bassy 
what is the sister company?


----------



## rambomhtri

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Yes, they should be in phase. I'll try one of those cables then.


I don't know what "being in phase" means. What do you guys mean?

As I've already said, I'v repaired a lot of headphones and I know it doesn't matter at all if you're connecting the ground to the right channel or viceversa. Indeed, there is no ground or right channel in the headphone end, there are simply 2 connections, that's all. So I don't understand what are you guys trying to say.


----------



## HungryPanda

If earphones are out of phase the sound is not defined, there is no soundstage, it seems to be in your head

balanced wiring:


----------



## BadReligionPunk

What we really need in here is mic talk. Will really enhance the cable discussion greatly.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 20, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> If earphones are out of phase the sound is not defined, there is no soundstage, it seems to be in your head
> 
> balanced wiring:



Hopefully that will help with the understanding of what balanced is.

Now we also need a  diagram showing what it looks like when something is wired out of phase... or in the case of removable cables, when the cable is attached out of phase.



BadReligionPunk said:


> What we really need in here is mic talk. Will really enhance the cable discussion greatly.



Noooooooooooooooooooo...... been there... done that...


----------



## HungryPanda

BadReligionPunk said:


> What we really need in here is mic talk. Will really enhance the cable discussion greatly.


 and also the benefits of different solder and ear anatomy


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> and also the benefits of different solder and ear anatomy



Don't forget the crystals....


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've decided to no longer buy KZ iems before a mass amount of reviews have hit the forums or elsewhere. I'm currently reading a book on how Chinese companies do business and it's all about making money and not much else (hence the amount of various models shooting out of their design studios like rockets)...I'm really not interested in owning a hundred pairs of KZ's, just a few.
> 
> Of course, this financial plan is different for every company but it's made me realize I don't want to jump the gun on "bad" earphones anymore. I just want the best. I've spent $500+ on "bad" earphones and earbuds... it's time to take a step back and jump into quality.
> 
> With that being said, I'm not so sure I like my KZ ZSN earphones anymore... but I do now like my KZ ZS10's. They may have needed some serious burn in to sound good.



I just had a take your ZSN's to work day and Im still blown away by them. Spent the morning listening to 70's and 80's Japanese Funk mix. Then listened to a Tulus record(Black Metal), then an Unleashed record(Death Metal), then finished the day listening to Jain(French African Pop). ZSN pulled off each genre very well.


----------



## DynamicEars

netsky3 said:


> It was a review on youtube with many happy owner of the ZS10 say that they are awesome and better than mine
> Good to know that. I will look for those models. I happily surprised from this ZST, for this i wish have another giant slayer, then buy a great dac/amp
> 
> I like the warm sound, not too bassy
> what is the sister company?



Sister company = companies that still have connection between them. KZ and CCA.

if compared to ZST, indeed ZS10 is better, but you may want to just jump to C10, not to bassy suits you, clear mids, more balanced, still a bit warm, not too analytic.
and its cheaper than ZS10. If you looking for just slight upgrade from ZST with budget price, you can get KZ ZSN, its king below $20 earphones. great sub bass, with no mid bass bleed. very good for $14~ish earphone.
The ZS10 hype train is already passed, a lot of better earphone than ZS10 from KZ itself, like AS10, BA10 and their sister company C10 and C16, and from another brand (since this is a KZ thread)

hope this helps. cheers!


----------



## Slater

Tooros said:


> Dumb question: does it matter ‘which way round’ or just that both l+r are oriented the same.



Just that both are oriented properly.

Although it’s easy with cables that have preformed earguides, like TRN cables for example. Because if you put 1 on backwards, you won’t be able to physically put it around your ears.

The people that have to be super careful are those of us that cut off the memory wires/ear guides. This removes the reference as to the proper orientation. So in that case you can line up the L and R markings on the 2-pin plug with the L  and R markings on the IEM shells. As long as all of the L and R markings are facing the correct way, the phase will be correct.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> and also the benefits of different solder and ear anatomy





mbwilson111 said:


> Don't forget the crystals....



You forgot cable lifers and cryogenically frozen cables.


----------



## netsky3

DynamicEars said:


> Sister company = companies that still have connection between them. KZ and CCA.
> 
> if compared to ZST, indeed ZS10 is better, but you may want to just jump to C10, not to bassy suits you, clear mids, more balanced, still a bit warm, not too analytic.
> and its cheaper than ZS10. If you looking for just slight upgrade from ZST with budget price, you can get KZ ZSN, its king below $20 earphones. great sub bass, with no mid bass bleed. very good for $14~ish earphone.
> ...


My question wasn't clear, sorry. I mean, what is the sister company? I'm not very expert about the actual chi-fi market.

I'll keep in mind the mode models anyway. I'll think I'll try one of those soon if they really are giant slayer


----------



## rambomhtri

HungryPanda said:


> If earphones are out of phase the sound is not defined, there is no soundstage, it seems to be in your head
> 
> balanced wiring:


...but what that draw has to do with the way you connect the cable to the earphone?
My question was: if you have a 2 pin connector in your IEM, I'm saying that it doesn't matter which way you plug in the cable, but somebody said "you could be out of phase", and I don't understand that.


----------



## Gazd

Tooros said:


> Dumb question: does it matter ‘which way round’ or just that both l+r are oriented the same.


Ah guys I have a question. People in my country headphones group always say Kz earphones are bad. Bad enough for them to say they are garbage.... So yeah what I'm asking is I'm having a kz zs6. I probably don't have good ears but I feel like the kz zs6 is still have a very good sound for me except for the treble of course but do you guys think KZ's headphones is that bad compare to other headphones at the same price range?


----------



## toddy0191

rambomhtri said:


> ...but what that draw has to do with the way you connect the cable to the earphone?
> My question was: if you have a 2 pin connector in your IEM, I'm saying that it doesn't matter which way you plug in the cable, but somebody said "you could be out of phase", and I don't understand that.



http://bfy.tw/MOT5


----------



## Slater (Feb 20, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> I'm saying that it doesn't matter which way you plug in the cable



Actually, it does matter.

In my signature there’s a link to a phase test. You can hear exactly what the difference between in phase and out of phase sounds like.

Out of phase sounds like crap (kind of ‘backwards’ and ‘outside of your head’), and in phase sounds ‘centered’ and ‘normal’. Hard to explain with words, but easy to hear the difference with your ears.

I guess if you really don’t care about how it sounds either way (ie if both ways in my signature link sound acceptable to you), then don’t worry about it and just plug everything up willy nilly. You have a 50% chance of getting it right anyways.

If you want to understand the science and reasoning behind driver phase, there’s loads of information if you search for it on Google.


----------



## nxnje

Gazd said:


> Ah guys I have a question. People in my country headphones group always say Kz earphones are bad. Bad enough for them to say they are garbage.... So yeah what I'm asking is I'm having a kz zs6. I probably don't have good ears but I feel like the kz zs6 is still have a very good sound for me except for the treble of course but do you guys think KZ's headphones is that bad compare to other headphones at the same price range?


Good afternoon friend!
Where do you live?
Anyway, i still speak well about the ZS6 even if i'm using a pair of ZS7 as daily drivers.
The ZS6 is still a good pair of IEMs watching the past, and if taken today it still delivers a very good listening experience.
Much detail, strong low-end, clear mids even if recessed, great stage. 
That peak in the upper end can be tamed down with so many tweaks that it's not a problem anymore.
They aren't obviously a high-fidelity pair of iems (much color, maybe too much mid-bass bleed sometimes)but hey, they are still astonishing for the price (now they're like ~20$). 
The zs7 is just a little step up in terms of signature: smoother, less peaky and a bit less sibilance, with more controlled bass. 
But ZS6 are still rly amazing and i still like them.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Good afternoon friend!
> Where do you live?
> Anyway, i still speak well about the ZS6 even if i'm using a pair of ZS7 as daily drivers.
> The ZS6 is still a good pair of IEMs watching the past, and if taken today it still delivers a very good listening experience.
> ...



Where did you find ZS6 for $20?


----------



## Gazd

nxnje said:


> Good afternoon friend!
> Where do you live?
> Anyway, i still speak well about the ZS6 even if i'm using a pair of ZS7 as daily drivers.
> The ZS6 is still a good pair of IEMs watching the past, and if taken today it still delivers a very good listening experience.
> ...


I agree with you about the zs6 I actually love them. But I'm planning to sell it to my friend to get a pair of zs7 btw I'm in Vietnam. People in my country seem to have a bad image about Kz and I don't know why


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## LamerDeluxe (tm) (Feb 20, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> I don't know what "being in phase" means. What do you guys mean?



It means the waveforms are inverted (flipped upside down) relatively to eachother. If you have a sine wave, the result of inverting is the same as shifting the wave horizontally by half its length. If a single wave is a full 360 degrees (imagine vertical position of an angle around a circle), that means this waveform is out of phase by 180 degrees. Inverted waves, when added, cancel eachother out. As mentioned it will mess up your soundstage.

EDIT: So out of phase means a signal is shifted horizontally in relation to another signal.


----------



## Slater

Gazd said:


> I agree with you about the zs6 I actually love them. But I'm planning to sell it to my friend to get a pair of zs7 btw I'm in Vietnam. People in my country seem to have a bad image about Kz and I don't know why



Who cares what other people think?

If you like it, isn’t that what matters most?


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Who cares what other people think?
> 
> If you like it, isn’t that what matters most?


You are right. Although what they said is a little hard for me. But your words helped me. Thank you!


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 20, 2019)

OK, I call that "inverse", and I know that effect. The phase of a signal has nothing to do with the inversion of a signal. Now, my question is... do you "inverse" the channel signal of one headphone by swapping ground and channel in that headphone?
I'm pretty sure you don't.

If you did, I'd have provoked this effect dozens of times while repairing headphones. Truth be told, I always put the cables where they were, but anyways...

I have a pair of headphones and I can solder the cables reversed in one speaker and check it.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

rambomhtri said:


> OK, I call that "inverse", and I know that effect. The phase of a signal has nothing to do with the inversion of a signal. Now, my question is... do you "inverse" the channel signal of one headphone by swapping ground and channel in that headphone?
> I'm pretty sure you don't.
> 
> If you did, I'd have provoked this effect dozens of times while repairing headphones. Truth be told, I always put the cables where they were, but anyways...
> ...



Actually you do invert the signal when you swap the signal and ground wires. This is why everything is color-coded with speakers.


----------



## neo_styles (Feb 20, 2019)

Ok here's my attempt at explaining the phase argument with a drawing. For the sake of simplicity, we'll just use a sine wave:






In the first group, both the Left and Right channels are receiving signal in the same phase (meaning the peaks are in timing with each other). The net effect is that you hear the sound properly in both ears.

The second group is 180 degrees out of phase, the most extreme case possible. Because the Left channel's peak arrives at the same time as the right channel's valley, the net effect is a complete cancellation of that sound. This was originally how they designed noise-cancelling headphones to work.

Since, in reality, you wouldn't always have a complete 180-degree out-of-phase scenario, the real net effect would be that certain sounds are cancelled, some augmented, and some just diminished. You'd have trouble localizing sounds and a center image.

That's why it's important that you connect each earpiece in the same phase/polarity (positive to positive, ground to ground). Wiring one backwards would cause the drivers to move in opposite directions at different rates.

More often than not, you're going to hear phase and polarity used interchangeably here. In my experience, I've seen more people understand it explained as phase than polarity (and vice versa, depending on the crowd).


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Where did you find ZS6 for $20?


Missaudio store on aliexpress sells them for around 22$, not 20$ but very near to, sorry that wasn't precise.



Gazd said:


> I agree with you about the zs6 I actually love them. But I'm planning to sell it to my friend to get a pair of zs7 btw I'm in Vietnam. People in my country seem to have a bad image about Kz and I don't know why


Maybe they do have a bad image of kz because they own expensive products and they do not like something cheap to be so good. I have a friend who bought a pair of flc8 and listening to my ZS7 made him rly mad.
Not saying they're better, i didn't try them, but he said he is reallt mad because he spent so much money while i spent a quarter of flc8's price and still have a great SQ that can compete in the sub-150$ price bracked.


----------



## neo_styles

nxnje said:


> Missaudio store on aliexpress sells them for around 22$, not 20$ but very near to, sorry that wasn't precise.


$22 is still a steal, so nice find. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## rambomhtri

Sorry but no, the phase has absolutely nothing to do with inversion of a wave. There's one little big problem with your example: your example. To explain this effect we are talking about, cancellation of waves, you can't use a function that can be inverted by phasing it 180º. That's mixing up concepts. A periodic function can't be used as an example to explain this because it will lead to confusion.

When we listen to music, the wave is not periodic, so you can't cancel them out by phasing one x degrees. You can achieve that only by inverting one signal, which as I've said several times, has nothing to do with phasing.

I've just re-discovered that swapping the wires in the headphone end actually invert the signal. Now that makes sense. I've just tested that and it's true: the headphones cancel each other if I swap the cables in one of them. This should not be called "out of phase", it's plain wrong. It should be called "cancellation" or "inversion of one channel". The phase of both waves, weather you swap the cables or not, is exactly the same. The only thing that changes when you swap the cables is the Amplitude of the wave, being opposite to the original.


----------



## neo_styles (Feb 20, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> Sorry but no, the phase has absolutely nothing to do with inversion of a wave. There's one little big problem with your example: your example. To explain this effect we are talking about, cancellation of waves, you can't use a function that can be inverted by phasing it 180º. That's mixing up concepts. A periodic function can't be used as an example to explain this because it will lead to confusion.
> 
> When we listen to music, the wave is not periodic, so you can't cancel them out by phasing one x degrees. You can achieve that only by inverting one signal, which as I've said several times, has nothing to do with phasing.
> 
> I've just re-discovered that swapping the wires in the headphone end actually invert the signal. Now that makes sense. I've just tested that and it's true: the headphones cancel each other if I swap the cables in one of them. This should not be called "out of phase", it's plain wrong. It should be called "cancellation" or "inversion of one channel". The phase of both waves, weather you swap the cables or not, is exactly the same. The only thing that changes when you swap the cables is the Amplitude of the wave, being opposite to the original.


Call it whatever you want. We're not in the business of starting nor maintaining arguments here, especially over terminology. The important thing is that you now understand what we were trying to tell you.


----------



## Gazd

nxnje said:


> Missaudio store on aliexpress sells them for around 22$, not 20$ but very near to, sorry that wasn't precise.
> 
> 
> Maybe they do have a bad image of kz because they own expensive products and they do not like something cheap to be so good. I have a friend who bought a pair of flc8 and listening to my ZS7 made him rly mad.
> Not saying they're better, i didn't try them, but he said he is reallt mad because he spent so much money while i spent a quarter of flc8's price and still have a great SQ that can compete in the sub-150$ price bracked.


The ZS7 really nailed it right? Kz fixed everything they have been complained with especially the KZ zs6 treble. They fixed it all


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 20, 2019)

Yes, thank you, but terminology is fundamental when you're talking about physics. You can't just explain physics using specific terms like "phase", draw waves and use mathematical functions and then use wrong terms or names to explain one effect. In part I did not understand you guys becase I know what phase means and couldn't understand how swapping a two terminal cable in the headphone could make something change phase.

Now a question come to my mind:
I've opened dozens of headphones, specially in ear, and very few had marks indicating ground. How are you supposed to tell which one is the ground?

Second question:
You can listen correctly if you have none of the waves inverted or both waves inverted, that is, you can have the cables both correct or both inverted.
Does that make a difference?
Do manufacturers design speakers/drivers taking into account that there's always one pin to ground and the other to channel? Or these two pins can be swapped in BOTH speakers so there's no cancellation, and the speaker works just as fine?


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> The ZS7 really nailed it right? Kz fixed everything they have been complained with especially the KZ zs6 treble. They fixed it all


The ZS7's sound signature improved over the ZS6's in a lot of ways, but there are tradeoffs. Bass impact is significantly more, but it can overwhelm subbass at times which is something I didn't notice when using the ZS6. Additionally, the extra low-end energy has a tendency to shrink stage width in my experience. I find that the ZSN tends to feel more open in comparison. Conversely, they really did a good job taming down the top-end of the ZS7, which should please those who are treble-sensitive.

I just wouldn't call the ZS7 an all-rounder like I would have the ZS6. It does great for music that benefits from feeling that impact. Rock and electronic do very well on the ZS7, but I'd rather grab the ZS6, ZSN, or AS10 for something more nuanced like jazz or classical.


----------



## 1clearhead

*BAD NEWS on the ZSN PRO's!*

The taobao store where I ordered the ZSN PRO's are *sold out!* So, I will not be getting the ZSN PRO's, since they're all sold out from the KZ company. They were really hard to get, since there was only 100 of them available! ...I still don't know why they told me the late announcement on the PRO's after I had placed the order on them several days ago.
I guess no cigar to celebrate at this time!


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> The ZS7's sound signature improved over the ZS6's in a lot of ways, but there are tradeoffs. Bass impact is significantly more, but it can overwhelm subbass at times which is something I didn't notice when using the ZS6. Additionally, the extra low-end energy has a tendency to shrink stage width in my experience. I find that the ZSN tends to feel more open in comparison. Conversely, they really did a good job taming down the top-end of the ZS7, which should please those who are treble-sensitive.
> 
> I just wouldn't call the ZS7 an all-rounder like I would have the ZS6. It does great for music that benefits from feeling that impact. Rock and electronic do very well on the ZS7, but I'd rather grab the ZS6, ZSN, or AS10 for something more nuanced like jazz or classical.


I like the Zs6 a lots so what do you say I have two choices. 1. Keep the Zs6 and buy the LG v30 since I have been using my normal smartphone to listen to music 2.sell zs6 to my friend and buy the ZS7


----------



## nxnje

neo_styles said:


> $22 is still a steal, so nice find. Thanks for sharing.


Yes i think so, still a good pair especially for that price.



Gazd said:


> The ZS7 really nailed it right? Kz fixed everything they have been complained with especially the KZ zs6 treble. They fixed it all


Yea, and it's still nailing it. I was a real fan of the zs6 but the zs7 is like an improved zs6. They've read what we all complained in the reviews.



neo_styles said:


> The ZS7's sound signature improved over the ZS6's in a lot of ways, but there are tradeoffs. Bass impact is significantly more, but it can overwhelm subbass at times which is something I didn't notice when using the ZS6. Additionally, the extra low-end energy has a tendency to shrink stage width in my experience. I find that the ZSN tends to feel more open in comparison. Conversely, they really did a good job taming down the top-end of the ZS7, which should please those who are treble-sensitive.
> 
> I just wouldn't call the ZS7 an all-rounder like I would have the ZS6. It does great for music that benefits from feeling that impact. Rock and electronic do very well on the ZS7, but I'd rather grab the ZS6, ZSN, or AS10 for something more nuanced like jazz or classical.


i personally find the zs7 less v-shaped and more suited for an all-rounder driver.. but that's just my 2$.


----------



## AncientSw0rd (Feb 20, 2019)

Gazd said:


> I like the Zs6 a lots so what do you say I have two choices. 1. Keep the Zs6 and buy the LG v30 since I have been using my normal smartphone to listen to music 2.sell zs6 to my friend and buy the ZS7




I would sell the zs6 and buy a zs7 if it were me ...


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> I like the Zs6 a lots so what do you say I have two choices. 1. Keep the Zs6 and buy the LG v30 since I have been using my normal smartphone to listen to music 2.sell zs6 to my friend and buy the ZS7


I'm more of a source-oriented person, so I think you might get a little more ROI going with the phone route. Personally, I prefer a dedicated DAP, but I do have a friend with the V30 who really favors its output stage. Don't think you can really go wrong either way.



nxnje said:


> i personally find the zs7 less v-shaped and more suited for an all-rounder driver.. but that's just my 2$.


I agree that it's significantly less V-shaped than the ZS6, but did want to share my experience contrasting the ZS7 with something like the ZSN or AS10 for more detailed music. If they had somehow managed to keep the ZS6's width, it would have been a smash hit, but that's one area I do see the ZSN taking a lead. Stage height on the ZSN is also very impressive. That being said, if I'm grabbing a pair to take to work, it's usually the ZS7.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

rambomhtri said:


> Sorry but no, the phase has absolutely nothing to do with inversion of a wave. There's one little big problem with your example: your example. To explain this effect we are talking about, cancellation of waves, you can't use a function that can be inverted by phasing it 180º. That's mixing up concepts. A periodic function can't be used as an example to explain this because it will lead to confusion.
> 
> When we listen to music, the wave is not periodic, so you can't cancel them out by phasing one x degrees. You can achieve that only by inverting one signal, which as I've said several times, has nothing to do with phasing.
> 
> I've just re-discovered that swapping the wires in the headphone end actually invert the signal. Now that makes sense. I've just tested that and it's true: the headphones cancel each other if I swap the cables in one of them. This should not be called "out of phase", it's plain wrong. It should be called "cancellation" or "inversion of one channel". The phase of both waves, weather you swap the cables or not, is exactly the same. The only thing that changes when you swap the cables is the Amplitude of the wave, being opposite to the original.



Correct, it is a bit of a misnomer, in case of swapping the signal connections it is inversion, but it is still called being out of phase (180 degrees), because of the sine wave origin. Actually being out of phase would be a time-delay between the two channels.


----------



## rambomhtri

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Correct, it is a bit of a misnomer, in case of swapping the signal connections it is inversion, but it is still called being out of phase (180 degrees), because of the sine wave origin. Actually being out of phase would be a time-delay between the two channels.


Exactly, that's why I couldn't understand what they were saying. That's how important it is to properly use the terms, specially if you're talking about the most rigorous science: physics. After maths, of course.

Anyways, now I'm intrigued with 2 questions:
Are headphones and speakers designed to have one wire as ground and the other as channel?
In other words, does it affect sound if you swap both ground and channel in both headphones?


----------



## neo_styles

rambomhtri said:


> Exactly, that's why I couldn't understand what they were saying. That's how important it is to properly use the terms, specially if you're talking about the most rigorous science: physics. After maths, of course.
> 
> Anyways, now I'm intrigued with 2 questions:
> Are headphones and speakers designed to have one wire as ground and the other as channel?
> In other words, does it affect sound if you swap both ground and channel in both headphones?


I recommend you create a new thread to figure this out as we're starting to veer off-topic.


----------



## rambomhtri

neo_styles said:


> I recommend you create a new thread to figure this out as we're starting to veer off-topic.


Thanks you're right.


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> I'm more of a source-oriented person, so I think you might get a little more ROI going with the phone route. Personally, I prefer a dedicated DAP, but I do have a friend with the V30 who really favors its output stage. Don't think you can really go wrong either way.
> 
> 
> I agree that it's significantly less V-shaped than the ZS6, but did want to share my experience contrasting the ZS7 with something like the ZSN or AS10 for more detailed music. If they had somehow managed to keep the ZS6's width, it would have been a smash hit, but that's one area I do see the ZSN taking a lead. Stage height on the ZSN is also very impressive. That being said, if I'm grabbing a pair to take to work, it's usually the ZS7.


The soundstage on the Zs7 isn't as good as the Zs6?


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> The soundstage on the Zs7 isn't as good as the Zs6?


Not in my opinion and I attribute that to them taking energy away from the upper midrange and treble along with the significant boost in bass impact. When I was hearing people complimenting these things, I figured the overall sense of space would take a hit. Takes a good amount of money, research, and design to check all the boxes, though and I'm not saying the ZS7 is bad; it's just a step down from the ZS6. It's still a supremely energetic pair and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> Not in my opinion and I attribute that to them taking energy away from the upper midrange and treble along with the significant boost in bass impact. When I was hearing people complimenting these things, I figured the overall sense of space would take a hit. Takes a good amount of money, research, and design to check all the boxes, though and I'm not saying the ZS7 is bad; it's just a step down from the ZS6. It's still a supremely energetic pair and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.


You made me want to keep my Zs6 haha. Thank you


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> You made me want to keep my Zs6 haha. Thank you


Sounds like you've got a V30 incoming, then


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> Sounds like you've got a V30 incoming, then


Yes the V30 is coming! Oh I have a question. I usually listen with 40% to 80% volume. Will it make my headphones broken when listening to such a big volume like that?


----------



## neo_styles (Feb 20, 2019)

Gazd said:


> Yes the V30 is coming! Oh I have a question. I usually listen with 40% to 80% volume. Will it make my headphones broken when listening to such a big volume like that?


Volume, in terms of percentage, doesn't tell you much of anything. That being said, you should have a decent amount of oomph with the quad DACs that are built into the V30. I couldn't find specific output specs on the dac/amp combo (ESS Sabre ES9218P) in there, but the Shanling M0 is supposed to run on a single-unit config of the same combo and I don't have to bring volume up past 35% of its max...ever...I have a feeling you'd kill your ears before you'd cause damage to the ZS6 using the V30.

Trust your ears and their tolerance for fatigue and you should be just fine.


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> Volume, in terms of percentage, doesn't tell you much of anything. That being said, you should have a decent amount of oomph with the quad DACs that are built into the V30. I couldn't find specific output specs on the dac/amp combo in there, but the Shanling M0 is supposed to run on a single-unit config of the same combo and I don't have to bring volume up past 35% of its max...ever...I have a feeling you'd kill your ears before you'd cause damage to the ZS6 using the V30.
> 
> Trust your ears and their tolerance for fatigue and you should be just fine.


Compare to the fiio m3k is the V30 sound better? Sorry I don't have much knowledge about this


----------



## Gazd (Feb 20, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> Volume, in terms of percentage, doesn't tell you much of anything. That being said, you should have a decent amount of oomph with the quad DACs that are built into the V30. I couldn't find specific output specs on the dac/amp combo (ESS Sabre ES9218P) in there, but the Shanling M0 is supposed to run on a single-unit config of the same combo and I don't have to bring volume up past 35% of its max...ever...I have a feeling you'd kill your ears before you'd cause damage to the ZS6 using the V30.
> 
> Trust your ears and their tolerance for fatigue and you should be just fine.


Oh and I'm still using my normal phone right now so I just want to know will it broke my headphone if it push the volume to 80%


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> Compare to the fiio m3k is the V30 sound better? Sorry I don't have much knowledge about this


I prefer dedicated DAPs for listening to music, so I'd lean you in the direction of a standalone DAP over the V30, but it depends on your lifestyle. If you think you're going to get more use out of a phone with a pretty sweet output stage over also carrying a DAP, then that's the way I'd suggest you go.

But I wouldn't go with the M3k. For a little bit more, you can get a Shanling M0 or Cayin N3 on MusicTeck (both are $110 new, but they have refurbs at a markdown). I, personally, wouldn't go with Fiio in that price range since you really need to get a X3 or higher for enough ROI to make it worth it. Might also be able to find a Sony NW-A45 at a decent price used.


----------



## Gazd (Feb 20, 2019)

Gazd said:


> Oh and I'm still using my normal phone right now so I just want to know will it broke my phone if it push the volume to 80%





neo_styles said:


> I prefer dedicated DAPs for listening to music, so I'd lean you in the direction of a standalone DAP over the V30, but it depends on your lifestyle. If you think you're going to get more use out of a phone with a pretty sweet output stage over also carrying a DAP, then that's the way I'd suggest you go.
> 
> But I wouldn't go with the M3k. For a little bit more, you can get a Shanling M0 or Cayin N3 on MusicTeck (both are $110 new, but they have refurbs at a markdown). I, personally, wouldn't go with Fiio in that price range since you really need to get a X3 or higher for enough ROI to make it worth it. Might also be able to find a Sony NW-A45 at a decent price used.


Thanks! you informed me so much! But yeah 80% volume on my phone will not broke my headphone. I believe in it LOL


----------



## voicemaster (Feb 20, 2019)

Ordered CCA C16, let the wait begin!


----------



## BoZ29

neo_styles said:


> The ZS7's sound signature improved over the ZS6's in a lot of ways, but there are tradeoffs. Bass impact is significantly more, but it can overwhelm subbass at times which is something I didn't notice when using the ZS6. Additionally, the extra low-end energy has a tendency to shrink stage width in my experience. I find that the ZSN tends to feel more open in comparison. Conversely, they really did a good job taming down the top-end of the ZS7, which should please those who are treble-sensitive.
> 
> I just wouldn't call the ZS7 an all-rounder like I would have the ZS6. It does great for music that benefits from feeling that impact. Rock and electronic do very well on the ZS7, but I'd rather grab the ZS6, ZSN, or AS10 for something more nuanced like jazz or classical.


Mod the zs6 and keep it. Buy the zs7 as the allrounder.


----------



## thrgk

Are these the "real" zs7 and zs6? I see the zs7 is only $5 more, and it seems like amazon might be mixing up the link. Anyone buy them on amazon yet?
https://www.amazon.com/****-Headpho...ncoding=UTF8&refRID=E2PK0XQ7SJ4JDY5PQQVH&th=1

Thanks


----------



## neo_styles

thrgk said:


> Are these the "real" zs7 and zs6? I see the zs7 is only $5 more, and it seems like amazon might be mixing up the link. Anyone buy them on amazon yet?
> https://www.amazon.com/****-Headpho...ncoding=UTF8&refRID=E2PK0XQ7SJ4JDY5PQQVH&th=1
> 
> Thanks


That's the link my boss ended up using to buy. He received an authentic pair.


----------



## Slater

I’ve never seen fake ZS6 and ZS7.

Are there fakes floating around or something?


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> I’ve never seen fake ZS6 and ZS7.
> 
> Are there fakes floating around or something?


Same question


----------



## DynamicEars (Feb 21, 2019)

netsky3 said:


> My question wasn't clear, sorry. I mean, what is the sister company? I'm not very expert about the actual chi-fi market.
> 
> I'll keep in mind the mode models anyway. I'll think I'll try one of those soon if they really are giant slayer



Like i said, sister company is another company of 1 company but still have connections between them, like  1 of KZ owner open another company for example.
yes they are good for their price, but im afraid Giant slayer is just a myth after all. At least until now, a very good, high praised  earphone that can have quality at double its price is considered very very good. No under $50 iem that can be compared to $1000
 iem, not even $200 iem. There is no KZ (or other budget iems) that can fight against DM6, Kanas Pro, Ikko OH1, ibasso IT01s at $150-200. Sorry I dont mean to wipe up your hope, Me too if there is such a thing i will be very happy too like rest of us here, just correcting misleading hype, too much hype around there.
you'll know what i mean once you try those iems.



1clearhead said:


> *BAD NEWS on the ZSN PRO's!*
> 
> The taobao store where I ordered the ZSN PRO's are *sold out!* So, I will not be getting the ZSN PRO's, since they're all sold out from the KZ company. They were really hard to get, since there was only 100 of them available! ...I still don't know why they told me the late announcement on the PRO's after I had placed the order on them several days ago.
> I guess no cigar to celebrate at this time!



Ouchh i guess they re really limited for now, but im curious, is it just the cosmetic change, or different sound signature? original ZSN is considered already great for $14 iem though. cant complain about it even there is a harshness at 2.5khz, definitely one of the best value budget iem around.



Slater said:


> I’ve never seen fake ZS6 and ZS7.
> 
> Are there fakes floating around or something?



as far as i know, NO.. considering ZS6 and ZS7 already a fake one. Fake Andromeda.. lol


----------



## 1clearhead

@DynamicEars

"Ouchh i guess they re really limited for now, but im curious, is it just the cosmetic change, or *different sound signature*? original ZSN is considered already great for $14 iem though. cant complain about it even there is a harshness at 2.5khz, definitely one of the best value budget iem around."

*1Clearhead*
It was because of the different tuning and sound signature, since they did some changes within the ZSN PRO units. I woudn't pay more than "double the price" just for cosmetic. No way!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 21, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Like i said, sister company is another company of 1 company but still have connections between them, like  1 of KZ owner open another company for example.
> yes they are good for their price, but im afraid Giant slayer is just a myth after all. At least until now, a very good, high praised  earphone that can have quality at double its price is considered very very good. No under $50 iem that can be compared to $1000
> iem, not even $200 iem. There is no KZ (or other budget iems) that can fight against DM6, Kanas Pro, Ikko OH1, ibasso IT01s at $150-200. Sorry I dont mean to wipe up your hope, Me too if there is such a thing i will be very happy too like rest of us here, just correcting misleading hype, too much hype around there.
> you'll know what i mean once you try those iems.



Before discovering KZ, I got few $100-$150 IEMs (I did believe then to some convincing reviewers saying that if IEM is $50 -  that what it is, because it is not priced $100... )
Now I am not that sure, especially after reading more of those "convincing reviews". 
I would love some experts clearly explaining to me what exactly makes CCA C10, for instance, inferior to $100-$150 IEMs (mine few, perhaps "outdated", are not superior to me).

Then, for a particular example mentioned - KZN peaks at "2.5 kHz" - Fiio F9 pro is more spiky, for instance. Overall with three drivers Fiio F9 pro sounds a bit superior to KZN to me, but in KZN vs. FH1 - KZN is clearly winning to my ears.

Finally,  if to take the idea of pricing and enjoyment of audio cables - I am sure $3000 cable is 1000 (or 100, OK at least 10) times more enjoyable than $3 one. Though with cables, I would not be sure (within my limitations certainly), what is the underlying physics behind. IEMs are more subjective of course


----------



## rambomhtri

Have any of you opened the ZS7 IEM's just to check out how is it inside, what does it have, or even may be maintenance (dust, liquids...)?
Any pictures of how it's built inside?


----------



## nxnje

DynamicEars said:


> Like i said, sister company is another company of 1 company but still have connections between them, like  1 of KZ owner open another company for example.
> yes they are good for their price, but im afraid Giant slayer is just a myth after all. At least until now, a very good, high praised  earphone that can have quality at double its price is considered very very good. No under $50 iem that can be compared to $1000
> iem, not even $200 iem. There is no KZ (or other budget iems) that can fight against DM6, Kanas Pro, Ikko OH1, ibasso IT01s at $150-200. Sorry I dont mean to wipe up your hope, Me too if there is such a thing i will be very happy too like rest of us here, just correcting misleading hype, too much hype around there.
> you'll know what i mean once you try those iems.


This is like saying: you can't believe how can be easy opening fire when you have a pistol until you try bows and arrows.
Then mate we all know that probably a 200$ iem is better than a 40$ one, but we even know that the difference is not that wide considering price/quality ratio. 
You encounter a price limit that really draws a line from where your gains are limited.
Not saying it isn't worth going for a DM6 instead of a ZS7, just saying you do not feel the same difference you feel going from a 5$ chi-fi iem like the ate to a ZS7.

We have to admit that KZ really overpassed our expectations. One more triple seems really outdated when you hear a sample of the ZS7.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

rambomhtri said:


> Have any of you opened the ZS7 IEM's just to check out how is it inside, what does it have, or even may be maintenance (dust, liquids...)?
> Any pictures of how it's built inside?



Slater has, somewhere in the thread here. He moved the cross-over boards out of the way of the vents. I still want to do that as well.


----------



## Podster

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I ordered mine at the MissAudio store and everything went well.



I've made several successful purchases from AK Audio myself, I think they are both trusted AE sellers


----------



## rambomhtri

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Slater has, somewhere in the thread here. He moved the cross-over boards out of the way of the vents. I still want to do that as well.


Why would anyone want to move the board away from the vents?

I think the vents are there to evacuate and let in air, but in very subtle portions and of course because of the pressure. I mean, there's no fan pointing from inside to the vent, where it would make sense to move things away of the path. The pressure does not need a "straight" path or anything like that, it will work just exactly as fine with a board right in front the vent or with the board moved to the corner.


----------



## PhonoPhi

rambomhtri said:


> Why would anyone want to move the board away from the vents?
> 
> I think the vents are there to evacuate and let in air, but in very subtle portions and of course because of the pressure. I mean, there's no fan pointing from inside to the vent, where it would make sense to move things away of the path. The pressure does not need a "straight" path or anything like that, it will work just exactly as fine with a board right in front the vent or with the board moved to the corner.


Your arguments on pressure do not consider dynamics of the air flow.
Slater's mode improved the tortuosity of the system.


----------



## DynamicEars

PhonoPhi said:


> Before discovering KZ, I got few $100-$150 IEMs (I did believe then to some convincing reviewers saying that if IEM is $50 -  that what it is, because it is not priced $100... )
> Now I am not that sure, especially after reading more of those "convincing reviews".
> I would love some experts clearly explaining to me what exactly makes CCA C10, for instance, inferior to $100-$150 IEMs (mine few, perhaps "outdated", are not superior to me).
> 
> ...



Dont get me wrong, i just explain to him to not believe that there is a $50 iem that can beat $1000 iem. What i was trying to say is just to open up the reality. I got old "outdated" $100 iem also, and my AS10 crush them. New audio technology and chi-fi is really great right now. Some sub $50 iem really can beat "not good $100-200" iems. But still miles to beat "a good $100-200" (which is can match with other not good $400 iems). Simple words I just want to say be careful not to hyper hyped. Clearly no other intentions here.



nxnje said:


> This is like saying: you can't believe how can be easy opening fire when you have a pistol until you try bows and arrows.
> Then mate we all know that probably a 200$ iem is better than a 40$ one, but we even know that the difference is not that wide considering price/quality ratio.
> You encounter a price limit that really draws a line from where your gains are limited.
> Not saying it isn't worth going for a DM6 instead of a ZS7, just saying you do not feel the same difference you feel going from a 5$ chi-fi iem like the ate to a ZS7.
> ...



If we talk about value of the iem, i would definitely agree with you. even ZSN is clearly better value than Andromeda. So like i said, he said he heard that $50 iem can beat $1000 iem. and he would like suggestion for that, a giant slayer. I just say there is no such a thing (a $50 iem that can kill $1000, but i did i suggest him CCA C10, or cheaper ZSN, he asked for a step up from his ZST. A good iems that go further beyond its price? a lot. I just dont want him to get very high expectations. Thats all buddy. no offense here.
Not that i hate KZs dont get me wrong. I love them. i bought so many KZs.
Your last line is very true indeed. step up from $5 iem to ZS7 or C10 will be very huge different, but step up from there to DM6 there is no wow effect, but refinement, mature sound, quality. And to the TOTL level, its a hundred dollars for just a step by step increment in sound quality. worth the price? yes for some of us, no for some of us. They who chasing TOTL iems are looking for perfection, not value, how expensive it is, they really need it. It is back to you after all. For me myself, i wont. my budget limit wont pass $1000. Everyone can set their budget limit, and be happy with maximum result he can get from an iem, either at $20 or $200 or even $2000.


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 21, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Your arguments on pressure do not consider dynamics of the air flow.
> Slater's mode improved the tortuosity of the system.


We are talking about air. Unless you're a mechanical/aerospace engineer that knows about fluid mechanics, I'll tell you that air viscosity is 98% lower than water, and these "tortuosities" vanish with such low values. Besides, tortuosity mostly refers to porous materials, I guess air filters... It's not like the air inside the headphone is trying to "escape" through a high density foam. The evacuation of the air is pretty much exactly the same weather there's a plate right in front of the air vent or there is not a plate. Air will flow just as fine.

I guess the mod is to move the board away from the vent.
May I ask if those of you that have made the mod have noticed any difference in sound?

Are there pictures of the end result?


----------



## Slater

rambomhtri said:


> We are talking about air. Unless you're a mechanical/aerospace engineer that knows about fluid mechanics, I'll tell you that air viscosity is 98% lower than water, and these "tortuosities" vanish with such low values. Besides, tortuosity mostly refers to porous materials, I guess air filters... It's not like the air inside the headphone is trying to "escape" through a high density foam. The evacuation of the air is pretty much exactly the same weather there's a plate right in front of the air vent or there is not a plate. Air will flow just as fine.



Just search for the post friend.

Everything is explained there, including detailed photos and reasons.

All your questions will be answered. No need to lose sleep worrying about fluid dynamics and rocket engineering.


----------



## HungryPanda

It truly is not rocket science


----------



## mbwilson111

rambomhtri said:


> We are talking about air. Unless you're a mechanical/aerospace engineer that knows about fluid mechanics, I'll tell you that air viscosity is 98% lower than water, and these "tortuosities" vanish with such low values. Besides, tortuosity mostly refers to porous materials, I guess air filters... It's not like the air inside the headphone is trying to "escape" through a high density foam. The evacuation of the air is pretty much exactly the same weather there's a plate right in front of the air vent or there is not a plate. Air will flow just as fine.
> 
> I guess the mod is to move the board away from the vent.
> May I ask if those of you that have made the mod have noticed any difference in sound?
> ...



Why so Serious?

I always test the tortuosity of my gear with this


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> It truly is not rocket science


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I'm entertained.


----------



## Slater (Feb 21, 2019)

Which do you like better?

This?

(I’ve actually inherited a network wiring disaster like this)

Or this?


Before or After?


This?


Or this?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> Ordered CCA C16, let the wait begin!


Let us know if it's a KZ ZS7 killer.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> *BAD NEWS on the ZSN PRO's!*
> 
> The taobao store where I ordered the ZSN PRO's are *sold out!* So, I will not be getting the ZSN PRO's, since they're all sold out from the KZ company. They were really hard to get, since there was only 100 of them available! ...I still don't know why they told me the late announcement on the PRO's after I had placed the order on them several days ago.


Why would they only make a 100? The ZSN Pro must have sucked!  They probably sounded like a baby sucking on a tit and fired the person who designed them.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> Which do you like better?
> 
> This?
> 
> ...



I was expecting this to be followed by the ZS7 before and after photos...


----------



## rambomhtri

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why would they only make a 100? The ZSN Pro must have sucked!  They probably sounded like a baby sucking on a tit and fired the person who designed them.


Hahahaha, actually that's a good point!


----------



## BoZ29

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Slater has, somewhere in the thread here. He moved the cross-over boards out of the way of the vents. I still want to do that as well.


I did it as well. The crossover boards can be put away very easy. I tucked them in with some foam so they never touch something when I throw my zs7 somewhere in my room after a busy day.


----------



## Slater

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I was expecting this to be followed by the ZS7 before and after photos...



Haha, ok here you go 

This:

 

Or this:


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Let us know if it's a KZ ZS7 killer.



Will do the comparison right after I got it and after burn in too.


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

Is there any upgrade cable available for KZ ZS7? 
I couldn't locate anything yet dedicated as such.


----------



## neo_styles

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> Is there any upgrade cable available for KZ ZS7?
> I couldn't locate anything yet dedicated as such.


No dedication required. I've got two aftermarket cables I use with all my KZs that do just fine for the ZS7.


----------



## 1clearhead

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why would they only make a 100? The ZSN Pro must have sucked!  They probably sounded like a baby sucking on a tit and fired the person who designed them.


Haha!...I wish I could say the same! But, one would only know if they decide to dish out a few more and just enough of them that we can comment on them. Fingers-crossed!


----------



## Slater (Feb 21, 2019)

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> Is there any upgrade cable available for KZ ZS7?
> I couldn't locate anything yet dedicated as such.



I switch between the TRN 8-wire and KZ 8-wire cables on my ZS7:





Any KZ cable with “A” end will fit perfectly without modification, as the ZS7 has the “A” sized socket (along with the ZS5, ZS6, ZS3, and ZS4).

Heck, a “B” ended cable will still technically fit fine (as you can see from the copper colored cable above). It just doesn’t sit perfectly flush.

But for a perfectly flush fit when using a “B” cable, the extra plastic can be easily trimmed off. This is how we used to do it when the 8-wire KZ upgrade cables first came out, as the “B” end was the only option available - they all had to be trimmed for a flush fit on “A” socketed IEMs. It wasn’t until later that KZ added an “A” option to that particular cable.


----------



## Mouseman

Slater said:


> I switch between the TRN 8-wire and KZ 8-wire cables on my ZS7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's that second cable? The blue one? Did you recolor it?


----------



## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> What's that second cable? The blue one? Did you recolor it?



It’s a KZ flat braided 8-wire SPC upgrade cable, dyed blue. It’s the cable a lot of people hate because it oxidizes to a minty green tinge. Dying them fixes all that though.

Penon was blowing them out for $4.50 each a few months ago, and I bought all they had because they’re really nice cables (with a fairly low 0.4ohm impedance) for such a stupid cheap price.

I remove the memory wire on all of them though, because the KZ memory wires suck balls and the comfort is much better without them.

Here’s the same cable in yellow, which also looks really good on the ZS7:


----------



## gbrgbr

Slater said:


> I remove the memory wire on all of them though,



What's the easiest way to do that?


----------



## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

gbrgbr said:


> What's the easiest way to do that?



Pick/dig at the end of the wire with your fingernail, and it will poke through the plastic sheath. Then just grab the bare wire and peel it back like the peel of a banana (or string cheese stick).

Once it’s totally peeled back, just jerk it out. Sometimes you have to bend the wire back and forth at the very end to weaken it, and then it will just fall off.

Anyways, once you have the wire removed, the remainder of the plastic sheath can just be torn off.

I know reading all that probably doesn’t make much sense. I can do a little picture guide tomorrow, as I have a couple of cables I need to remove the ear wires from. So it would be a perfect opportunity to photo document the process, because a picture is worth a thousand words...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Can the ZS10 be easily broken inside? I dropped them from three feet high while inside a plastic container onto a cement sidewalk. Something sounds different but I'm not sure what, if anything...


----------



## BrunoC

KZ ZS7 is excellent. No doubt. But with default tips aka starlines, the treble seems a bit rolled-off, missing that extra sparkle that I like a lot.

Using wide bore tips greatly improves the treble, and the sub-bass is stil there and is not affected. Wow. This guy is really tip-sensitive.

I'm using the KZ IE80 large wide bore tips and that's it -> ZS7 is IMO the best KZ ever.

Just my 2 cents: Put some wide bore tips on the ZS7 and enjoy


----------



## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Can the ZS10 be easily broken inside? I dropped them from three feet high while inside a plastic container onto a cement sidewalk. Something sounds different but I'm not sure what, if anything...



There’s debate about how ‘easily’ is “easily”.

In my experience, easily *is* easily, and I treat anything with BA drivers with kid gloves to prevent drops.

BAs are not indestructible and can definitely be killed/broken by dropping IEMs on a hard surface (tile floor, concrete, marble/granite, hardwood floor).


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> In my experience, easily *is* easily, and I treat anything with BA drivers with kid gloves to prevent drops. BAs are not indestructible and can definitely be killed/broken by dropping IEMs on a hard surface (tile floor, concrete, marble/granite, hardwood floor).


Yeah, I don't like the way multi-BA IEMs are manually glue-assembled together. The quality of assembly would depend on the experience and dexterity of the person assembling it. I am hoping that the newer IEMs with custom BA holders makes it easier to assemble, and keep the BAs better protected when the IEM is dropped. I am getting zip cases for all mine, just to be safe.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> Yeah, I don't like the way multi-BA IEMs are manually glue-assembled together. The quality of assembly would depend on the experience and dexterity of the person assembling it. I am hoping that the newer IEMs with custom BA holders makes it easier to assemble, and keep the BAs better protected when the IEM is dropped. I am getting zip cases for all mine, just to be safe.



Some IEMs have a silicone or rubber holder. It acts as a vibration damper as well as providing additional protection against shock.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Some IEMs have a silicone or rubber holder. It acts as a vibration damper as well as providing additional protection against shock.


Well do the KZ's have it? Specially from the price range of the zs6? I guess not


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## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

Gazd said:


> Well do the KZ's have it? Specially from the price range of the zs6? I guess not



No KZs have been made (to date) with a silicone or rubber sleeve.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Some thoughts on the AS06: 

Head-fi / The Contraptionist


​


----------



## Gazd (Feb 22, 2019)

Slater said:


> No, none made to date have a silicone or rubber sleeve.


My Zs6 have been dropped for a couple of times and it's still fine now (my 2 years old nephew took it and threw it to the ground). Just a few scratches. But I don't know if it's because my ears or something that I feel like the sound kind of lean to my right ear. Are there anyway to find out if the headphones sound is lean to the right or the left and is not balance?


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## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

Gazd said:


> My Zs6 have been dropped for a couple if times and it's still fine now. Just a few scratches. But I don't know if it's because my ears or something that I feel like the sound kind of lean to my right ear. Are there anyway to find out if the headphones sound is lean to the right or the left and is not balance?



Your only 2 options to detect and imbalance would be to 1. Use your ears to try and detect it or 2. To take FR measurements

And to clarify about dropping IEMs, it’s not that every time an IEM is dropped the BAs all break. It’s that when an IEM is dropped the BAs *can* break.

Just like dropping a ceramic or glass drinking cup on a floor. Many times it doesn’t break. Other times it may just scratch or chip. But still other times it breaks into a hundred pieces. It’s not a guarantee. It’s just the way the universe works sometimes.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Your only 2 options to detect and imbalance would be to 1. Use your ears to try and detect it or 2. To take FR measurements


What is the FR measurements and how to do it? I only have my smartphone with me so...


----------



## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

Gazd said:


> What is the FR measurements and how to do it? I only have my smartphone with me so...



FR measurement is Frequency Response measurement.

You’d have to buy a special calibrated microphone, make or buy a mounting coupler, do all of the calibrations specific to your setup, and use special software for taking the measurements. A decent FR measurement setup ranges in prices from about $100-$200, all the way up to $50k.

If you’re interested, there’s articles I can point you to.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> FR measurement is Frequency Response measurement.
> 
> You’d have to buy a special calibrated microphone, make or buy a measuring coupler, and use special software for taking the measurements. A FR measurement setup ranges in prices from about $100 all the way up to $50k.


Wow sound cool but out of my range haha but I think it's because my head and my ears because when I asked my friend to hear it to see if it is unbalance and my friend said it sound totally normal


----------



## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

Gazd said:


> Wow sound cool but out of my range haha but I think it's because my head and my ears because when I asked my friend to hear it to see if it is unbalance and my friend said it sound totally normal



Yes, using your (or someone else’s) ears is free.

Human ears aren’t a piece of scientific measurement equipment, and humans by default are prone to all sorts of errors, bias, etc.

However, ears can certainly suffice for cases when extreme precision and repeatability isn’t required.

Bottom line, your ears work just fine in most cases.


----------



## purplesun

Gazd said:


> Wow sound cool but out of my range haha but I think it's because my head and my ears because when I asked my friend to hear it to see if it is unbalance and my friend said it sound totally normal


Might be easier to detect the imbalance by ear using a tone generator. There should be free apps that does this job on smartphones. Just run it up and down the frequency spectrum slowly - if one of the L or R low/mid/high BA is damaged, you should hear a L/R imbalance at its corresponding frequency.


----------



## PhonoPhi

B9Scrambler said:


> Some thoughts on the AS06:
> 
> Head-fi / The Contraptionist
> 
> ​


Very nice review, thank you!
It made me really want to get AS06!
Then I recollected that I already have one 
My simpleton impression of AS06 is that 6 is noticeably less than 10.

That brings the question - did you have a chance to listen to CCA C16?


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> Very nice review, thank you!
> My simpleton impression of AS06 is that 6 is noticeably less than 10.
> That brings the question - did you have a chance to listen to CCA C16?


I currently have my new AS10 simmering in the burn-in machine, with C10 & C16 arriving next week.
As much as I am loving the AS06, the highs are a tad bit too prickly for me (sounds like there's a spike around 7khz). I am hoping AS10 or C16 will clinch it for me, preferably the cheaper one.


----------



## Gazd

purplesun said:


> Might be easier to detect the imbalance by ear using a tone generator. There should be free apps that does this job on smartphones. Just run it up and down the frequency spectrum slowly - if one of the L or R low/mid/high BA is damaged, you should hear a L/R imbalance at its corresponding frequency.


Thanks I will try to find it


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> I currently have my new AS10 simmering in the burn-in machine, with C10 & C16 arriving next week.
> As much as I am loving the AS06, the highs are a tad bit too prickly for me (sounds like there's a spike around 7khz). I am hoping AS10 or C16 will clinch it for me, preferably the cheaper one.


Sound fantastic! 
Please share your experience.
If you feel the highs of AS06 - you should love AS10!
If anything, I feel AS10 highs are a bit missing sometimes (quite rare) while listening to violin.
In AS06 I just miss the mids, especially compared to C10, its direct competitor.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> Please share your experience.
> If you feel the highs of AS06 - you should love AS10!
> If anything, I feel AS10 highs are a bit missing sometimes (quite rare) while listening to violin.
> In AS06 I just miss the mids, especially compared to C10, its direct competitor.


My plan was to end up with a decently sealed IEM and a small DAP for long plane flights. ZSN did not do it for me with its highs being too hot. I think as06, c10, c16 or as10 should fit the bill. But now, with the AS06 needing solid amping, my Hidizs AP80 is out of the running. My current amp setup for testing to too big to fit into my laptop bag. So the small DAP is still work in progress.


----------



## netsky3

DynamicEars said:


> Like i said, sister company is another company of 1 company but still have connections between them, like  1 of KZ owner open another company for example.
> yes they are good for their price, but im afraid Giant slayer is just a myth after all. At least until now, a very good, high praised  earphone that can have quality at double its price is considered very very good. No under $50 iem that can be compared to $1000
> iem, not even $200 iem. There is no KZ (or other budget iems) that can fight against DM6, Kanas Pro, Ikko OH1, ibasso IT01s at $150-200. Sorry I dont mean to wipe up your hope, Me too if there is such a thing i will be very happy too like rest of us here, just correcting misleading hype, too much hype around there.
> you'll know what i mean once you try those iems.



Oh i see, I'll keep in my mind. for now i am oriented in Chi-Fi In ear because my low budget and other factors.
My intention was just to pick up the best IEM under 50$ made by KZ maybe


----------



## maxxevv

purplesun said:


> My plan was to end up with a decently sealed IEM and a small DAP for long plane flights. ZSN did not do it for me with its highs being too hot. I think as06, c10, c16 or as10 should fit the bill. But now, with the AS06 needing solid amping, my Hidizs AP80 is out of the running. My current amp setup for testing to too big to fit into my laptop bag. So the small DAP is still work in progress.



The AS10 should fit your needs pretty well as its isolation is excellent and its a pretty sensitive earphone, needing less than average volume settings to get to the sound levels I need on the commute. Using a LG G6 ( Quad DAC version) .


----------



## purplesun (Feb 22, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> The AS10 should fit your needs pretty well as its isolation is excellent and its a pretty sensitive earphone, needing less than average volume settings to get to the sound levels I need on the commute. Using a LG G6 ( Quad DAC version) .


Have the g6 as well. Both g6 and ap80 is definitely loud enough in sound volume. My test amp is using a variant of an old apheared 47 amp design which has good current delivery. There is a noticeable improvement in the SQ on the AS06 even when playing soft passages on the test amp. I suspect its probably things like dynamic range and slew rates which affects the as06. Not something i want to get into, as long as it can be replicated it on another smaller amp or DAP.


----------



## Slater (Feb 22, 2019)

purplesun said:


> My plan was to end up with a decently sealed IEM and a small DAP for long plane flights. ZSN did not do it for me with its highs being too hot. I think as06, c10, c16 or as10 should fit the bill. But now, with the AS06 needing solid amping, my Hidizs AP80 is out of the running. My current amp setup for testing to too big to fit into my laptop bag. So the small DAP is still work in progress.



EDR1 is small, comfortable, inexpensive, isolates well, sounds great, and needs no amp (it’s easily driven by any phone or DAP). It can be worn up or down, and it’s cheap enough that it gets lost, stolen, or damaged on a flight it’s no big deal. It’s treble is not hot or harsh at all.

Might be something to consider...


----------



## DynamicEars

netsky3 said:


> Oh i see, I'll keep in my mind. for now i am oriented in Chi-Fi In ear because my low budget and other factors.
> My intention was just to pick up the best IEM under 50$ made by KZ maybe



If you really want KZ then go for KZ ZS7, its highly praised one, and i believe that is good for its price, i havent buy it myself, but its like better version ZS6 without treble peaks, so will be good enough. alternatively if you can stretch your budget a bit, AS10 will be great. 
I think read reviews of ZS7 if it suits you.


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> EDR1 is small, comfortable, inexpensive, isolates well, sounds great, and needs no amp (it’s easily driven by any phone or DAP). It can be worn up or down, and it’s cheap enough that it gets lost, stolen, or damaged on a flight it’s no big deal. It’s treble is not hot or harsh at all


Thanks. My previous flight setup was hidizs ap60 (lost it) and kz atr(broke it). So the replacement was ap80 and another atr. Cheap and worked fine. Until i stupidly went and ordered ZSN and AS06  I literally just broke the seal for the AS10, and the CCAs are coming next week; let me get through them first to see what's what before ordering any new IEM. I do have a cheap A47-amped DAP on its way. Let's see how that turns out.


----------



## 1clearhead

purplesun said:


> My plan was to end up with a decently sealed IEM and a small DAP for long plane flights. ZSN did not do it for me with its highs being too hot. I think as06, c10, c16 or as10 should fit the bill. But now, with the AS06 needing solid amping, my Hidizs AP80 is out of the running. My current amp setup for testing to too big to fit into my laptop bag. So the small DAP is still work in progress.


The C10 are easy to push!...These are my companion and buddy when I travel.


----------



## Sylmar

Slater said:


> EDR1 is small, comfortable, inexpensive, isolates well, sounds great, and needs no amp (it’s easily driven by any phone or DAP). It can be worn up or down, and it’s cheap enough that it gets lost, stolen, or damaged on a flight it’s no big deal. It’s treble is not hot or harsh at all.
> 
> Might be something to consider...


Glad to see the older models still are getting some love. Yesterday I've used my KZ ZS1 again and after toning down the bass and mid-bass it's still very enjoyable. In fact, I may like it more than some of the newer models. Sure, I'm losing a little detail but I'm getting a lot of smoothness and warmth in return.


----------



## megapowa

Which one I should buy from these in order to use it with KZ AS10 and KZ ZS7? A pin or B pin?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010610.8148356.42.1fc31b04yZMJWp


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

A pin for ZS7, B pin for AS10


----------



## megapowa

That's not what I expected to be honest.

But thank you!

I'm wondering is there a 3rd party bt which can be used with both iem?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

It should be 0.75mm two pin, but I don't have a BT cable myself, maybe someone else here could advise.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I'm digging the TRN BT20, but don't own either the zs7 or as10, so no telling the synergy there.  They should both work fine with it though. Es4 is eternally locked to mine.  That's a really good pairing for activities.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I'm digging the TRN BT20, but don't own either the zs7 or as10, so no telling the synergy there.  They should both work fine with it though. Es4 is eternally locked to mine.  That's a really good pairing for activities.



I found a perfect synergy with one of my metal shell quad driver IEMs.

Perfect synergy, and easy to drive by the BT20. You’d swear it was wired.

A big issue I’ve had is the angle of the BT20 jack not syncing well with every IEM.

BQEYZ places their jacks really cocked forward, KZs are often almost straight up. And when the plug isn’t in just the right spot, it puts pressure on the ear guide (which is flexible enough to compensate, but the extra pressure does work IEMs loose).

But the IEM I’m using has the plug in just the right position, like Goldilocks.

Also, it has a much more compact shell than the other quad driver metal IEMs. This makes it really comfortable, but more importantly allows it to be quick and easy to put on a take off (which is already awkward with the BT20).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I found a perfect synergy with one of my metal shell quad driver IEMs.
> 
> Perfect synergy, and easy to drive by the BT20. You’d swear it was wired.
> 
> ...


Yea the ES4 sounds wired as well. I really found the ZSN to work well too, but opted for the bass of the ES4. TRN V20 was gold, and ZS10 was GREAT with the B20. Really good synergy there IMO.
Of all the IEMS I tried I actually found the BQ3 to sound very thin with it. It is my belief that possibly just doesn't make a great seal what with the BQ3's short nozzle. That was really the only IEM I tried that didn't work out very well. 

I am sorta wanting to buy an MMCX version, but was hoping that at this point a BT25 with APTX or LDAC would be out. LOL wishful thinking. Would really love to use it with CNT1 and EBX.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

BTW, Anybody load up headfi today and go, WHOAH! ZS7 made the front page! Sweet!

lol


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea the ES4 sounds wired as well. I really found the ZSN to work well too, but opted for the bass of the ES4. TRN V20 was gold, and ZS10 was GREAT with the B20. Really good synergy there IMO.
> Of all the IEMS I tried I actually found the BQ3 to sound very thin with it. It is my belief that possibly just doesn't make a great seal what with the BQ3's short nozzle. That was really the only IEM I tried that didn't work out very well.
> 
> I am sorta wanting to buy an MMCX version, but was hoping that at this point a BT25 with APTX or LDAC would be out. LOL wishful thinking. Would really love to use it with CNT1 and EBX.



Believe it or not, I’m using the mmcx version with the ibasso IT01. Works great, fits great, sounds great.

I really wanted the mmcx version to work with a graphene mmcx earbud I like, but the angle of the BT20 mmcx connector is too extreme so it doesn’t work.

I wish the BT20 ear guide had some adjustability in it (even a moldable memory wore like KZ would allow it to be tweaked).


----------



## Slater (Feb 23, 2019)

I wanted to share this little guide I made on how to remove the memory wires from KZ cables.

The guide is the same for all KZ cables, even stock cables. It doesn't matter if it's a KZ 2-pin cable, or a KZ mmcx cable (like the one I am using below). The *only* difference is in step #2. Most stock KZ cables have _opaque black_ heat shrink tubing around the memory wires, whereas the upgrade cables have _clear_ heat shrink tubing around the memory wires. The process is still exactly the same!

The whole process takes about 3-5 minutes tops.

*Step 1:*
Locate the end of the metal memory wire



*Step 2:*
Pick at and dig out the end of the metal memory wire with your fingernail. This is surprisingly easy to do, as the heat shrink tubing covering the memory wire is very and thin weak. *Do NOT use sharp objects like a knife or scissors; only use your fingernail!* If you use your fingernail, there's zero risk of damaging the copper cable itself.
If you need to, ask a female friend for help as they usually have better/longer/sharper fingernails (and no, it won't break a nail - the clear sheath is very soft).


*Step 3:*
Grab the exposed memory wire, and peel it back all the way to the bottom just like you are unpeeling a banana peel.


All peeled back!


*Step 4:*
Grab the plastic heat shrink and just tear it off at the very bottom of the cable. *Do not use sharp objects to do this! Your fingers are all you need!*


*Step 5:*
Grab the metal memory wire with your fingers, and pull straight UP. It will pop right out of the plug. Trust me, it will.
Ask someone with more hand strength for help if needed. It may help if you wrap the metal wire around your finger to make a little 'pull handle'. If you still can't get it, it's OK to grab the metal wire with pliers and pull it out that way.


Bye bye memory wire:


*Step 6:*
Repeat the process for the other side. All done!


----------



## gbrgbr

Slater said:


> I wanted to share this little guide I made on how to remove the memory wires from KZ cables.



Any reason not to this : after step 3, leave, say, 5mm of the wire and, say, 10mm of the plastic sheath.
It should act like a 'cable protector'. Similar to this :


----------



## Slater

gbrgbr said:


> Any reason not to this : after step 3, leave, say, 5mm of the wire and, say, 10mm of the plastic sheath.
> It should act like a 'cable protector'. Similar to this :



Sure, some members already do that when doing the KZ memory wire removal.

It’s a great way to preserve some strain relief functionality.

You just gotta be real careful, as you’re gonna have to trim the sheath with scissors at the length you want. And some people have unfortunately cut into their cables and ruined them. But as long as your very careful it’s titally doable.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> EDR1 is small, comfortable, inexpensive,_* isolates well,*_ sounds great, and needs no amp (it’s easily driven by any phone or DAP). It can be worn up or down, and it’s cheap enough that it gets lost, stolen, or damaged on a flight it’s no big deal. It’s treble is not hot or harsh at all.
> 
> Might be something to consider...


EDR1 or anything of that form factor isolates better than earbuds and really open types of gear, but I'm loth to say that that's isolating well. Per my experience everything of that form factor isolates worse than ED16, ES4, ZSN types, which in turn isolate worse than ZS3\4 (AS10 is also good, according to reviews, I don't own them). And after that there's customs, I guess. And active isolation.

Hooray for picking fights on adjective usage!


----------



## Tooros

Hi All. I’ve bought a couple of TRN cables along with some ZS7s. Both are enroute. However I think I’ve messed up. I wrongly assumed that any 0.75mm 2 pin would fit. Correction, I know they will technically fit but might not be flush.
Would anyone have a pic of how it may look or, better, some reassurance it’ll all be fine?

Here’s a screenshot of the cable ends.


----------



## richario

megapowa said:


> That's not what I expected to be honest.
> 
> But thank you!
> 
> I'm wondering is there a 3rd party bt which can be used with both iem?


I have AS10 and love it with the BT20 0.75 2 pin, fits well and drives effortlessly. They are now my favourites and daily drivers. Great sound with a nice quiet noise floor. I don't own a ZS7 but it fits ZS5 and ZS6 no problems as well. Sounds good with both but I find it hard going back to ZS6 after the AS10. ZS5 v1 pairs really well with it as well so I assume ZS7 would have no issues.


----------



## netsky3

DynamicEars said:


> If you really want KZ then go for KZ ZS7, its highly praised one, and i believe that is good for its price, i havent buy it myself, but its like better version ZS6 without treble peaks, so will be good enough. alternatively if you can stretch your budget a bit, AS10 will be great.
> I think read reviews of ZS7 if it suits you.


KZ or something with this good price/quality ratio.

Days ago I made the wrong assumption that ZS7 are cheaper and wors compared with ZST, I just got confused  

Thank you for the tip


----------



## maxxevv (Feb 23, 2019)

richario said:


> I have AS10 and love it with the BT20 0.75 2 pin, fits well and drives effortlessly. They are now my favourites and daily drivers. Great sound with a nice quiet noise floor. I don't own a ZS7 but it fits ZS5 and ZS6 no problems as well. Sounds good with both but I find it hard going back to ZS6 after the AS10. ZS5 v1 pairs really well with it as well so I assume ZS7 would have no issues.


I have both the AS10 and ZS7 and I have paired both with the BT20 at some point.

I mostly use it with the AS10 as it isolates better, so its more suited for noisy commutes. Its also more sensitive, thus needs less power from the BT20.

Between the AS10 and ZS7,  if you like a more energetic, bass elevated signature, go with the ZS7. If you prefer a somewhat more balanced out bass and treble with good, tight sounding bass and a slightly more forward vocals, the AS10.


----------



## DynamicEars

netsky3 said:


> KZ or something with this good price/quality ratio.
> 
> Days ago I made the wrong assumption that ZS7 are cheaper and wors compared with ZST, I just got confused
> 
> Thank you for the tip



ZST is old model, even ZSN that priced at $14 is better than ZST.
for KZ you can get ZS7, or AS10 its around $50
for CCA you can get C10, CCA is sister company to KZ
or you can try BQEYZ iems, or ****, or Moondrop Crescent or Tin Audio T2

They are all around $50 or less. All models that i mentioned above is good price / quality ratio. Find the one that suits your sound signature preference.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> EDR1 or anything of that form factor isolates better than earbuds and really open types of gear, but I'm loth to say that that's isolating well. Per my experience everything of that form factor isolates worse than ED16, ES4, ZSN types, which in turn isolate worse than ZS3\4 (AS10 is also good, according to reviews, I don't own them). And after that there's customs, I guess. And active isolation.
> 
> Hooray for picking fights on adjective usage!



Agreed. The absolute best isolating IEMs are ZS3 and ZS4. It’s literally like wearing earplugs.

The issue is OP was treble sensitive. So that honestly rules out KZ hybrid models in my opinion. Now you’re left with KZ dynamics. If those, I felt the EDR1 was a good choice.

Although the ZS3E would be an awesome choice. But since I’ve never personally heard it, I can’t recommend it.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Feb 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> Agreed. The absolute best isolating IEMs are ZS3 and ZS4. It’s literally like wearing earplugs.
> 
> The issue is OP was treble sensitive. *So that honestly rules out KZ hybrid models in my opinion.* Now you’re left with KZ dynamics. If those, I felt the EDR1 was a good choice.
> 
> Although the ZS3E would be an awesome choice. But since I’ve never personally heard it, I can’t recommend it.



ES4 and ZS10 would probably be fine, but the rest of their hybrids for sure are a no go. ZS1 is quite mellow in the treble. ZS3 too. ZSE is as well if I recall that one accurately. Lots of decent models still readily available  Though I'd probably just direct them to the CCA C10, lol. I haven't heard something so warm and cushy in ages. Like a puffy pillow of sound


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Agreed. The absolute best isolating IEMs are ZS3 and ZS4. It’s literally like wearing earplugs.
> 
> The issue is OP was treble sensitive. So that honestly rules out KZ hybrid models in my opinion. Now you’re left with KZ dynamics. If those, I felt the EDR1 was a good choice.
> 
> Although the ZS3E would be an awesome choice. But since I’ve never personally heard it, I can’t recommend it.


For me, AS10 is the best sealing, second is ZSN (I never had ZS3-ZS7 though).
AS10 is pretty gentle on treble


----------



## PhonoPhi

B9Scrambler said:


> ES4 and ZS10 would probably be fine, but the rest of their hybrids for sure are a no go. ZS1 is quite mellow in the treble. ZS3 too. ZSE is as well if I recall that one accurately. Lots of decent models still readily available  Though I'd probably just direct them to the CCA C10, lol. I haven't heard something so warm and cushy in ages. Like a puffy pillow of sound


Is C10 much warmer than AS10 to your ears?


----------



## B9Scrambler

PhonoPhi said:


> Is C10 much warmer than AS10 to your ears?



I'd have to listen side by side but my first impressions were that it was extremely warm, so probably, yeah. But I'm just going off what I recall thinking at the time. It arrived last week, I listened for a few hours while working on the ED16 review, then back in the box it went. Unlike the C04, the C10 doesn't just sound like another KZ.


----------



## eclein

Voicemaster and others who are waiting on C16, there is a thread specific to them that needs support......the wait is worth it voicemaster!!

I’m a CCA fan for sure.......thinking CCA, BQEYZ, TRN, KZ we are in for some serious fun and wallet abuse in the coming months...!!


----------



## netsky3

DynamicEars said:


> ZST is old model, even ZSN that priced at $14 is better than ZST.
> for KZ you can get ZS7, or AS10 its around $50
> for CCA you can get C10, CCA is sister company to KZ
> or you can try BQEYZ iems, or ****, or Moondrop Crescent or Tin Audio T2
> ...



very interesting hints dude!


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> EDR1 is small, comfortable, inexpensive, isolates well, sounds great, and needs no amp (it’s easily driven by any phone or DAP). It can be worn up or down, and it’s cheap enough that it gets lost, stolen, or damaged on a flight it’s no big deal. It’s treble is not hot or harsh at all..



I have quite a few early generation KZ stuff but, other than ate/atr, I have completely forgotten all their model names.
So imagine my surprise when I googled to see what EDR1 looked like!
I just took this photo of the other 2 earphones I have stashed in my laptop bag.

 

**** (something) & EDR1 are my 2 backups for flights when my ATR breaks/gets lost.
Both with reasonable isolation from the plane pressure.
EDR1 sounds like the ATR with less energy, and **** for more clarity.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> I have quite a few early generation KZ stuff but, other than ate/atr, I have completely forgotten all their model names.
> So imagine my surprise when I googled to see what EDR1 looked like!
> I just took this photo of the other 2 earphones I have stashed in my laptop bag.
> 
> ...



Great minds think alike!


----------



## nxnje

DynamicEars said:


> Dont get me wrong, i just explain to him to not believe that there is a $50 iem that can beat $1000 iem. What i was trying to say is just to open up the reality. I got old "outdated" $100 iem also, and my AS10 crush them. New audio technology and chi-fi is really great right now. Some sub $50 iem really can beat "not good $100-200" iems. But still miles to beat "a good $100-200" (which is can match with other not good $400 iems). Simple words I just want to say be careful not to hyper hyped. Clearly no other intentions here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry for the misunderstanding then. I think we have the same opinions


----------



## pbui44

My 150+ hour-burned-in ZSAs w/ Symbio-Ws and Penon copper-Silver cable have seen a lot of use between both my XDP-100r and iPhone, and I can say that it is absolutely giving my Symphony-superior Roxanne V1 and eye-opening-amazing TSMR3 a run for their money.  My revised TRN V10 is second among my cheap Chi-Fis, and BK50 Pro is third from lack of use, which is expected.  Still, with everything considered, I can say my $15 ZSAs are the ultimate complimentary IEM to most of my preferred genres and are the most chosen ones in my IEM collection.


----------



## 1clearhead

*CCA C16 *

Just received my CCA C16 yesterday and took a quick listen to them last night before burning them in and man! are they good! ...And believe it, or not! They have a similar sound signature to the tia Fourte', which I auditioned many times at my friends headphone shop here in Beijing, China, but with slightly more forward vocals! Sure, because of the slightly forward presentation, it causes a little more sibilance, but man! I'll take the C16 anytime than dishing-out $3,599 dollars, equivalent to a used car, which is the price of the tia Fourte's! Hopefully, I'll hear better results after the burn-in process. Can't wait!!!
 Let the burning begin! 
Personally, they sound better with my aftermarket medium Auvio silicone ear tips, for now! 

I'll be writing a review in the coming weeks with PIC's! 


-Clear


----------



## gbrgbr

pbui44 said:


> I can say my $15 ZSAs are the ultimate complimentary IEM to most of my preferred genres and are the most chosen ones in my IEM collection.



I too have a ZSA, Can someone point me to some _wide-bore_ eartips for the same. 
Pref on AE or GB, like $2 for 6 pcs. I can't afford the pricey ones.
On AE the bore widths of eartips are seldom mentioned.


----------



## DynamicEars

1clearhead said:


> *CCA C16 *
> 
> Just received my CCA C16 yesterday and took a quick listen to them last night before burning them in and man! are they good! ...And believe it, or not! They have a similar sound signature to the tia Fourte', which I auditioned many times at my friends headphone shop here in Beijing, China, but with slightly more forward vocals! Sure, because of the slightly forward presentation, it causes a little more sibilance, but man! I'll take the C16 anytime than dishing-out $3,599 dollars, equivalent to a used car, which is the price of the tia Fourte's! Hopefully, I'll hear better results after the burn-in process. Can't wait!!!
> Let the burning begin!
> ...



I think judging from FR, they're quite forward on high mids dont they? suggestion dont put too wide bore tips, because of prone to sibilance / high mid peaks. And they are all BA driver, burn in wont be a long process.
Comparison with your C10 and ****? I made my oath not to take another KZ for a long time, i can get pass over ZS7, but really tempted with either C10 or C16. do they have much improvement over C16? becuase the price leap is so much. C16 is cost more than 3X C10. not on budget category definitely.


----------



## purplesun

48th hour of a 96 hours burn-in of the AS10: A quick comparison using - Waiting for the punchline, Extreme, a guitar-heavy rock group. On the AS06, high hats (treble) were prominent, while the bass was tight and nimble. Vocals a bit lean.  On the AS10, it's slightly quieter volume than AS06. High hats, though still grainy, now some distance away. And lead vocal stands out with more body now. The drum kit seems to be "correctly" positioned on the stage now (back), as is the lead vocal (forward). Bass is strong, but still a bit murky; should clean up in due time. It bodes well for a post burn-in SQ.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

DynamicEars said:


> I think judging from FR, they're quite forward on high mids dont they? suggestion dont put too wide bore tips, because of prone to sibilance / high mid peaks. And they are all BA driver, burn in wont be a long process.
> Comparison with your C10 and ****? I made my oath not to take another KZ for a long time, i can get pass over ZS7, but really tempted with either C10 or C16. do they have much improvement over C16? becuase the price leap is so much. C16 is cost more than 3X C10. not on budget category definitely.



The C10's sound really smooth, but much less exciting than the ZS7, they are nice for acoustic instruments though. I hope to be receiving my C16 this week, so I can compare that one as well.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> If anything, I feel AS10 highs are a bit missing sometimes (quite rare) while listening to violin.
> In AS06 I just miss the mids, especially compared to C10, its direct competitor.


I tried a rousing string quartet piece on the AS06 (Haydn-Presto finale) and I agree. The violins were moving forwards & backwards as they run up and down the octaves. The cello was stable and solid though. Looks like V-shaped earphones are not great for this sort of presentation. Will need a flat-like-an-ice-lake FR earphone/headphone for this.


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> I think judging from FR, they're quite forward on high mids dont they? suggestion dont put too wide bore tips, because of prone to sibilance / high mid peaks. And they are all BA driver, burn in wont be a long process.
> Comparison with your C10 and ****? I made my oath not to take another KZ for a long time, i can get pass over ZS7, but really tempted with either C10 or C16. do they have much improvement over C16? becuase the price leap is so much. C16 is cost more than 3X C10. not on budget category definitely.


I personally believe the Auvio medium silicone ear tips does a better job controlling the sibilance on the C16 than the star line default tips that came with them. Even though the star line tips' center bore are slightly thinner (but, not by much), the longer bore (from front to back) on the star lines somehow creates more sibilance on the higher register making it slightly harder to listen comfortably at higher volumes. 
...But, of course, I will be burning them in and follow all changes that may happen with them and give a final review. 

-Clear


----------



## pbui44

gbrgbr said:


> I too have a ZSA, Can someone point me to some _wide-bore_ eartips for the same.
> Pref on AE or GB, like $2 for 6 pcs. I can't afford the pricey ones.
> On AE the bore widths of eartips are seldom mentioned.



Ask @garcsa about the Symbio ear tips.


----------



## Superluc (Feb 24, 2019)

gbrgbr said:


> I too have a ZSA, Can someone point me to some _wide-bore_ eartips for the same.
> Pref on AE or GB, like $2 for 6 pcs. I can't afford the pricey ones.
> On AE the bore widths of eartips are seldom mentioned.


These are cheap as hell and the bore measure a bit more than 5 mm of diameter.

The so called KZ whirlwinds, like these ones, cost more and are 6 mm.

I find the cheapest to be wide enough.


----------



## hakuzen

found the bad solder in cable 131 of my list.
this was the cable i started to use when testing kz zs7. someone asked me which defect was in the cable.
one core is connecting R+ and L-; bad soldering, that core is touching 2 contacts in the jack; still unable to unscrew the jack, though (it seems glued or somewhat). that's why i appreciate threaded and repairable plugs..
if don't get success on unscrewing, i'll replace the jack.


----------



## Slater (Feb 24, 2019)

Superluc said:


> These are cheap as hell and the bore measure a bit more than 5 mm of diameter.
> 
> The so called KZ whirlwinds, like these ones, cost more and are 6 mm.
> 
> I find the cheapest to be wide enough.



I don’t recommend the genuine KZ ones (ie the blue or red ones). They tear very easily at the edge.

The Tennmak version is 10xs better, and can be ordered in all 1 size (instead of being stuck with a SML set where you can’t use 2 out of the 3 sizes). Some Tennmak listings even include a nice zippered case for like $1 more.

You can read more about my wide bore tip comparison here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1895#post-14061542


----------



## wepunwepun

Can anyone help me on how to connect/pair my BT20’s? I currently hear output only from one side. The first time I used it I got lucky and managed to pair the left with the right, but now I can’t seem to do it. Thank you in advance!


----------



## maxxevv

wepunwepun said:


> Can anyone help me on how to connect/pair my BT20’s? I currently hear output only from one side. The first time I used it I got lucky and managed to pair the left with the right, but now I can’t seem to do it. Thank you in advance!



If you managed it the first time round, then not now, you need to reset the pairing. 

i) Press and hold the button on both modules for 15 seconds from a "off" state.  

ii) Press and hold button for about 5 seconds (both modules will blink red) and power off the modules. 

iii) Power on the two modules by pressing both buttons for about 3~4 seconds till both blink blue. Let go of buttons and they will pair with each other automatically.  And only one will continue to blink after that. 

iv) Turn on your handphone / pc / player BT and pair with it. 

That's all there is to it. Key thing is to reset the modules.


----------



## Chifiguy

I recently purchased the AS10s with the upgraded cable (both lightning and the normal 3.5 jack cables). I've been using it with the lightning upgrade cable plugged into my iPhone X, playing 320 kbp/s MP3s downloaded through Spotify. I have Spotify set to quiet (for better preservation of dynamics) and have been underwhelmed by the bass response. I find this surprising since most of the reviews I read were praising the bass and saying the treble response isn't very good. I tried using EQ, which helps a bit, but I'm still underwhelmed, especially on bass-heavy stuff like EDM. 

Any ideas how I can fix this? Would buying a pair of Spinfit tips help? I'm using the large stock ones.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 25, 2019)

wepunwepun said:


> Can anyone help me on how to connect/pair my BT20’s? I currently hear output only from one side. The first time I used it I got lucky and managed to pair the left with the right, but now I can’t seem to do it. Thank you in advance!






Basically hold the buttons for 15seconds, wait for it to say pairing AND make a series of descending beeps twice, it will clear everything and turn itself off.
Then turn both on, keep holding buttons until it says pairing. Click a single button on either and they should pair to each other. One side will flash red/blue and other blink blue slowly.
Now search and pair to your phone.






Chifiguy said:


> I recently purchased the AS10s with the upgraded cable (both lightning and the normal 3.5 jack cables). I've been using it with the lightning upgrade cable plugged into my iPhone X, playing 320 kbp/s MP3s downloaded through Spotify. I have Spotify set to quiet (for better preservation of dynamics) and have been underwhelmed by the bass response. I find this surprising since most of the reviews I read were praising the bass and saying the treble response isn't very good. I tried using EQ, which helps a bit, but I'm still underwhelmed, especially on bass-heavy stuff like EDM.
> 
> Any ideas how I can fix this? Would buying a pair of Spinfit tips help? I'm using the large stock ones.



Set to quiet? That is that to normalize volume between tracks. That would cause a loss of dynamics. Try turning off volume normalization all together.


----------



## Chifiguy (Feb 25, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Set to quiet? That is that to normalize volume between tracks. That would cause a loss of dynamics. Try turning off volume normalization all together.



I’ll try that and let you know if it works!

Edit: I tried it. It's a definite improvement but still leaves a lot to be desired, especially in the sub-bass area. I just feel like it doesn't "hit" or "slam" (for lack of a better word) very well. Could it be a burn-in issue (they're new)? Perhaps not getting a great fit with the stock tips?


----------



## Veyska (Feb 25, 2019)

Muttermutter mediocre KZ Bluetooth cable somethingsomething ... ?

So what would be the recommended Bluetooth cable for the CCA C10?  The angles on the TRN modules I've seen recommended look more like the other non-ZSN KZ pin type (B-paragraph, going off the KZ module's listing), but while what I know about IEM cable shenanigans couldn't be written on something as small as an IEM it's not that far off and I'd be entirely willing to believe the answer is still TRN BT3/BT20...  KZ ZSN was my first and I got it just in time for the C10 craze take off and given that supposedly it fixed the one minor complaint I had about the ZSN of course I had to get it (it did yay, though I had to get shorter tips to get the right ear to do its best impression of earbuds in my ear by falling out whenever I did anything other than pretend to be a statue).  Still not entirely sold on the form factor, it's not at all uncomfortable but it's also not as comfortable as my Bose Soundsport/QC30, so while I'm not in a rush to buy the Bluetooth module I figure it'd be useful to know what to get for when/if I do thus I am asking while I'm actually thinking about it.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 25, 2019)

Chifiguy said:


> I’ll try that and let you know if it works!
> 
> Edit: I tried it. It's a definite improvement but still leaves a lot to be desired, especially in the sub-bass area. I just feel like it doesn't "hit" or "slam" (for lack of a better word) very well. Could it be a burn-in issue (they're new)? Perhaps not getting a great fit with the stock tips?



Could be a burn-in thing or tips. I don't have the AS10's so I can't say for sure. It is a BA IEM so it's not going to have the slam of a Dynamic. I'd try some foam tips, you can get some T400 size ones for cheap on AE.

I bought these ones:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6pc...-T400-3-5-mm-Caliber-Headset/32859581242.html




Veyska said:


> Muttermutter mediocre KZ Bluetooth cable somethingsomething ... ?
> 
> So what would be the recommended Bluetooth cable for the CCA C10?  The angles on the TRN modules I've seen recommended look more like the other non-ZSN KZ pin type (B-paragraph, going off the KZ module's listing), but while what I know about IEM cable shenanigans couldn't be written on something as small as an IEM it's not that far off and I'd be entirely willing to believe the answer is still TRN BT3/BT20...  KZ ZSN was my first and I got it just in time for the C10 craze take off and given that supposedly it fixed the one minor complaint I had about the ZSN of course I had to get it (it did yay, though I had to get shorter tips to get the right ear to do its best impression of earbuds in my ear by falling out whenever I did anything other than pretend to be a statue).  Still not entirely sold on the form factor, it's not at all uncomfortable but it's also not as comfortable as my Bose Soundsport/QC30, so while I'm not in a rush to buy the Bluetooth module I figure it'd be useful to know what to get for when/if I do thus I am asking while I'm actually thinking about it.



You could try the newer 4.2 bluetooth KZ cable (the older 4.1 had bad reviews), I haven't personally used them yet. I was sent the wrong versions...

The BT20 true wireless should work with the right size pins. It just plugs in, doesn't have molded end like the KZ cables. @Slater really likes his.
The premolded ear guides make fit a bit more difficult than cables. They are a stiff plastic inside a sheath.

I had the BT10 in mmcx but sold it once I got my BT20 to replace it. It was decent and had better reviews than the old KZ BT cables.


You could always get a good BT receiver like the ES100 too. It would have the better audio codecs and may handle higher impedence items. Although its 3-5 times the cost of the KZ or TRN options.


----------



## voicemaster

Chifiguy said:


> I recently purchased the AS10s with the upgraded cable (both lightning and the normal 3.5 jack cables). I've been using it with the lightning upgrade cable plugged into my iPhone X, playing 320 kbp/s MP3s downloaded through Spotify. I have Spotify set to quiet (for better preservation of dynamics) and have been underwhelmed by the bass response. I find this surprising since most of the reviews I read were praising the bass and saying the treble response isn't very good. I tried using EQ, which helps a bit, but I'm still underwhelmed, especially on bass-heavy stuff like EDM.
> 
> Any ideas how I can fix this? Would buying a pair of Spinfit tips help? I'm using the large stock ones.



Should've went with zs7.


----------



## rambomhtri

How good are the KZ ZSN for walking?
I want to buy a gift for a person that goes walking like 2-3 hours about 3 times a week. With stock cable and ear tips... are they comfortable to wear for 3 hours while walking?
Will they stay in place?

I know I can buy a sport in-ear headphones, but walking is not that intense and I prefer to buy a nice looking, great sounding IEM's.
Are there any tips that you can put in them that have the sport "hook" silicone thing sport headphones have?


----------



## SiggyFraud

rambomhtri said:


> How good are the KZ ZSN for walking?
> I want to buy a gift for a person that goes walking like 2-3 hours about 3 times a week. With stock cable and ear tips... are they comfortable to wear for 3 hours while walking?
> Will they stay in place?
> 
> ...


No need for the "sport hooks", as ZSN already have ear guides. They're also really comfortable and sit tight. No risk of losing them while walking IMO.


----------



## crabdog

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> The C10's sound really smooth, but much less exciting than the ZS7, they are nice for acoustic instruments though. I hope to be receiving my C16 this week, so I can compare that one as well.


I still haven't spent much time listening to the ZS7 but so far I would agree that it does have a more exciting signature. I'm not sure if it will be fatiguing - literally only listened for 30 minutes but I like what I'm hearing so far. Oh and btw the first thing I did was ditch that lame a$$ stock cable. Hate that memory wire!


----------



## crabdog

Chifiguy said:


> I recently purchased the AS10s with the upgraded cable (both lightning and the normal 3.5 jack cables). I've been using it with the lightning upgrade cable plugged into my iPhone X, playing 320 kbp/s MP3s downloaded through Spotify. I have Spotify set to quiet (for better preservation of dynamics) and have been underwhelmed by the bass response. I find this surprising since most of the reviews I read were praising the bass and saying the treble response isn't very good. I tried using EQ, which helps a bit, but I'm still underwhelmed, especially on bass-heavy stuff like EDM.
> 
> Any ideas how I can fix this? Would buying a pair of Spinfit tips help? I'm using the large stock ones.


Are you getting a nice seal with the stock tips? If you _are_ getting a proper seal now Spinfits won't magically "fix" the sound for you as the difference in bass response will be minimal at best. However, if you are _not_ getting a proper seal now then Spinfits might just be the perfect solution.


----------



## rambomhtri

crabdog said:


> I still haven't spent much time listening to the ZS7 but so far I would agree that it does have a more exciting signature. I'm not sure if it will be fatiguing - literally only listened for 30 minutes but I like what I'm hearing so far. Oh and btw the first thing I did was ditch that lame a$$ stock cable. Hate that memory wire!



I'm reading a lot of hate about the* stock cable* of the *KZ ZS7*. I don't want to receive them after 2-3 weeks waiting, and then be frustrated with the cable... nevertheless there are other users that say it's not that bad at all, it's good. I'm about to buy a cable now just in case...

What do you guys think?
What kind of cables are you buying? (by you a mean those that hate the stock cable)


----------



## Tooros

rambomhtri said:


> I'm reading a lot of hate about the* stock cable* of the *KZ ZS7*. I don't want to receive them after 2-3 weeks waiting, and then be frustrated with the cable... nevertheless there are other users that say it's not that bad at all, it's good. I'm about to buy a cable now just in case...
> 
> What do you guys think?
> What kind of cables are you buying? (by you a mean those that hate the stock cable)



I bought some trn cables and asked recently if there would be issues - I kinda hoped someone would’ve done the same and removed my worries about a bad purchase. I wrongly assumed there would be zero fit problems but I think there will be. Once everything arrives I’ll add some images. If you can wait that long.


----------



## Slater (Feb 25, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> I'm reading a lot of hate about the* stock cable* of the *KZ ZS7*. I don't want to receive them after 2-3 weeks waiting, and then be frustrated with the cable... nevertheless there are other users that say it's not that bad at all, it's good. I'm about to buy a cable now just in case...
> 
> What do you guys think?
> What kind of cables are you buying? (by you a mean those that hate the stock cable)



I wouldn’t say it’s hate.

Just like the factory tires that come on most cars, they’re not perfect, but rather I would consider them ‘perfectly adequate’. There’s always room for improvement, and you can always upgrade to much better tires.

The stock cables on 90% of <$100 budget IEMs are not perfect, but rather I would consider them ‘perfectly adequate’. And just like the tire example, you can always upgrade to better cables.

What some people dislike more than anything on the KZ cables is the metal memory wire. But even the upgrade cables come with it. The good news is it can easily be removed:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2808#post-14796969

Many people also dislike that the stock cables don’t come with a chin slider. But again, most cables don’t. The good news is a chin slider can be improvised on any cable with a number of methods (orthodontic braces rubber bands, mechanical keyboard o rings, a small strip of Velcro, a cut down wire tie, etc).

Also, keep in mind that nothing is perfect. Even ‘better’ cables may have things you don’t like about them (maybe too heavy, maybe too stiff, maybe the plugs don’t fit flush, maybe the wires aren’t all distributed evenly so the resistance varies across the pins, maybe it’s got a straight 3.5mm plug and you prefer 90 degrees, maybe the y split is too high or too low, maybe it doesn’t have a chin slider).

I wouldn’t stress about it. Just wait for the ZS7 and see for yourself. If you’re happy with the stock cable, then bob’s your uncle. If you don’t like it, then cross that bridge when you get there.


----------



## Tooros

Tooros said:


> Hi All. I’ve bought a couple of TRN cables along with some ZS7s. Both are enroute. However I think I’ve messed up. I wrongly assumed that any 0.75mm 2 pin would fit. Correction, I know they will technically fit but might not be flush.
> Would anyone have a pic of how it may look or, better, some reassurance it’ll all be fine?
> 
> Here’s a screenshot of the cable ends.



Here’s the post.


----------



## crabdog

rambomhtri said:


> I'm reading a lot of hate about the* stock cable* of the *KZ ZS7*. I don't want to receive them after 2-3 weeks waiting, and then be frustrated with the cable... nevertheless there are other users that say it's not that bad at all, it's good. I'm about to buy a cable now just in case...
> 
> What do you guys think?
> What kind of cables are you buying? (by you a mean those that hate the stock cable)


I'm using this one at the moment. It's really nice for the price - supple and really well-made. There are cheaper options out there too, including some KZ options.


----------



## neo_styles

rambomhtri said:


> I'm reading a lot of hate about the* stock cable* of the *KZ ZS7*. I don't want to receive them after 2-3 weeks waiting, and then be frustrated with the cable... nevertheless there are other users that say it's not that bad at all, it's good. I'm about to buy a cable now just in case...
> 
> What do you guys think?
> What kind of cables are you buying? (by you a mean those that hate the stock cable)


I don't hate the stock cable, but I did grab a couple upgrades for both aesthetics and better microphone. They're not as cheap as the TRNs other people are recommending, but they get my seal of approval:

3-button with mic - These may not play nicely with some home amps due to the 4-pole plug, but work just fine for all of my mobile devices. Call quality and construction are outstanding, imo.
No microphone - I know they're 0.78mm, but fit just fine in every pair of 2-pin IEMs I own. The braid and cable colors are definite showpieces in person. I get compliments on their aesthetic almost daily.


----------



## Tooros

If anyone has issues with the long y split and no slider - I added a 4mm O ring and it works a treat. Easy to put on. 
(Any bass fisherman will see where I got the idea from.)


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Good idea. I don't really like the memory wires either, they are giving me slight OCD. But without the wires, I'd need a slider to keep the wires from falling off my ears.



crabdog said:


> I still haven't spent much time listening to the ZS7 but so far I would agree that it does have a more exciting signature. I'm not sure if it will be fatiguing - literally only listened for 30 minutes but I like what I'm hearing so far. Oh and btw the first thing I did was ditch that lame a$$ stock cable. Hate that memory wire!



I don't find them fatiguing, they started to sound smoother after a short time of use, still enjoying them a lot. Haven't used the stock cable, have only been using them balanced.


----------



## rambomhtri

I have never used a slider, I've always used my ear-phones with the slide as low as it was by default. I have never used a memory cable before, indeed I've never used IEM's before, I mean, these kind of IEM's you put the cable behind your ear. I've always used regular in-ear headphones, so it's going to be the first experience with IEM's, memory cable and behind the ear configuration, all at once.

One thing I don't understand. Cable companies take a few steps more in order to make the IEM end of the cable "memory cable".
Why would a company spend resources and time doing extra things that are negative to many users?
I ask this because I don't read any "wow, I love the memory cable in the headphone end, it's so useful". It's either "I hate it" or simply not mentioned as a good thing. From my un-experience I think that the memory cable is an upgrade, an extra, a better thing to have. Right now I don't see how it's problematic, but since I have never tried it I can't tell.


----------



## Tooros

rambomhtri said:


> I have never used a slider, I've always used my ear-phones with the slide as low as it was by default. I have never used a memory cable before, indeed I've never used IEM's before, I mean, these kind of IEM's you put the cable behind your ear. I've always used regular in-ear headphones, so it's going to be the first experience with IEM's, memory cable and behind the ear configuration, all at once.
> 
> One thing I don't understand. Cable companies take a few steps more in order to make the IEM end of the cable "memory cable".
> Why would a company spend resources and time doing extra things that are negative to many users?
> I ask this because I don't read any "wow, I love the memory cable in the headphone end, it's so useful". It's either "I hate it" or simply not mentioned as a good thing. From my un-experience I think that the memory cable is an upgrade, an extra, a better thing to have. Right now I don't see how it's problematic, but since I have never tried it I can't tell.



No idea. I had some RHA T20s and the memory part never fitted me no matter what I did. I’m convinced they actually prevented me from getting a good, reliable seal.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 25, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> I have never used a slider, I've always used my ear-phones with the slide as low as it was by default. I have never used a memory cable before, indeed I've never used IEM's before, I mean, these kind of IEM's you put the cable behind your ear. I've always used regular in-ear headphones, so it's going to be the first experience with IEM's, memory cable and behind the ear configuration, all at once.
> 
> One thing I don't understand. Cable companies take a few steps more in order to make the IEM end of the cable "memory cable".
> Why would a company spend resources and time doing extra things that are negative to many users?
> I ask this because I don't read any "wow, I love the memory cable in the headphone end, it's so useful". It's either "I hate it" or simply not mentioned as a good thing. From my un-experience I think that the memory cable is an upgrade, an extra, a better thing to have. Right now I don't see how it's problematic, but since I have never tried it I can't tell.



I do not use sliders either but there are a few cables that have the splitter too low... I would use a slider with those if there was one.  If the cable is too long from the splitter to the earpiece then it will tangle more easily.

I do use memory wires if there is one because then I can shape it perfectly for me.  I don't stuff the iem in a pocket... I  make sure I have a large enough case for it that the wire will stay exactly how I want it.  So, once I have formed it I do not have to mess with it again.  I do like the type that have a preformed curve (not a wire) IF it suits me. Some of them are formed wrong for me.  I hate wearing a cable behind my ears if there is nothing to help it keep its shape.  I wear glasses and have long hair so that just makes it get lost in my hair ,,, for me that makes it harder to put one and take off.

Here is one of mine in its case with the wire kept as I have formed it.










Tooros said:


> No idea. I had some RHA T20s and the memory part never fitted me no matter what I did. I’m convinced they actually prevented me from getting a good, reliable seal.



Was that the type that is not a bendable memory wire, but rather the preformed type that does not let you change the shape?  I have had problems with some of those.  They can prevent a good fit.  Great if they are shaped well for your anatomy though.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I hate wearing a cable behind my ears if there is nothing to help it keep its shape.  I wear glasses and have long hair so that just makes it get lost in my hair ,,, for me that makes it harder to put one and take off.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 26, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> One thing I don't understand. Cable companies take a few steps more in order to make the IEM end of the cable "memory cable".
> Why would a company spend resources and time doing extra things that are negative to many users?



I think it's trickled down from stage use. IEM's started as stage monitors for musicians. They need them to stay put and in the ear when performing on stage and I think the over ear routing and a form-able wire do the best job of this. I've used over ear wires with memory wire, with preformed ear guides and without memory wire.

IMO:
With the memory wire definitely holds the IEM the best once adjusted and only occasionally required slight adjustment.

The preformed ear guides are the most comfortable. In case of these, they were moldable by heating them up (heatgun, hair dryer, etc) and I formed them to fit my ears. They spring back and require no additional adjustment once done.

The one cable I've used without guides was a thin, light and very flexible cable so it didn't want to stay behind the ear too well. It wasn't uncomfortable, but required a lot of adjustment. Heavier duty, more expensive cables (8 and 16 core) without guides may be much easier to deal with in this respect, as they may have the weight to hold themselves in place.
YMMV on this.


Chin slider is to cinch up the slack between cables. Not necessary if not active in use. Having the cable cinched closer to the chin helps keep the ear guides in place around the ears. I added an o-ring as a cinch on my ZSN, as the split is much lower than my prior ear buds and IEM's. That would allow them a bit too much movement when walking or otherwise active.


----------



## rambomhtri

Thank you, I really want to try the memory wire now, hahahaha.

One question:
Do better cables (thicker I guess) hold better?

Basically, you want to put them and don't touch them. So, that means the IEM's must enter your ear canal and stay (tips business), then cable must stay behind your ear (I guess the thicker and heavier the cable, the less chances for it to "jump" from your ear), and also the more flexible a cable is, the less chance a movement of the cable will reach the ear area. If a cable is not ver flexible, any "up" movement will go directly to the curve of the ear and may make the cable to go up, jump your ear and fall. So, my guessing is: heavy, thick, flexible cable is the best. Am I right?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 25, 2019)

For me, if the part going over the top of my ear is too thick it is uncomfortable.  My ears are very flat to my head so there is not much room.

@rambomhtri Don't worry so much ahead of time.  You are starting to overthink again...


----------



## purplesun (Feb 26, 2019)

AS06 (>200 hour played) vs AS10 (about 80 hours played)
Strong amplification source & Comply T400 knockoffs
Tested albums (free downloads from bandcamp):
- Spiritus by Chronus - atmospheric EM
- What's Goin' on by Stonetrotter - folk rock
- Sideways by Lauren Desberg - jazz vocals

AS06 has a leaner presentation than AS10.
AS06 has nimbler bass/mids than AS10.
AS06's is more treble forward than AS10.
AS06 has a flatter bass response than AS10.
And AS10 runs deeper; probably giving up around 70hz.

I prefer the AS06 on EM music. With no need to be accurate nor natural sounding, AS06's nimbler response is useful for playing some of the more aggressive sound textures & crazy transitions in EM. But music that requires fidelity, I prefer AS10. More mature sounding, having some upper-bass/low-mid warmth and sibilant-resistant. But it's less open-sounding than AS06, and can sound a bit too sombre. Maybe that's what the CCA C16, with quad treble BAs, is for?$$!


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


>



I wish my hair could get that high! And, not grey!


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 26, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> Thank you, I really want to try the memory wire now, hahahaha.
> 
> One question:
> Do better cables (thicker I guess) hold better?
> ...



I wouldn't say better, just different. They do a better job of staying in place for slower movement such as walking, turning your head, etc., due to the extra weight. Unfortunately heavier wires will technically retain more momentum if active (jumping/running/etc) as their weight will want to stay in motion longer. Plus the extra weight of the cable will be pulling on your ears harder.

Putting them in and not touching them is the goal for IEM's and earbuds... at least for me. Enjoy listening, not fiddling. I prefer lightweight non-memory wire with mold-able cables and 90 degree plugs.


----------



## Veyska

assassin10000 said:


> You could try the newer 4.2 bluetooth KZ cable (the older 4.1 had bad reviews), I haven't personally used them yet. I was sent the wrong versions...
> 
> The BT20 true wireless should work with the right size pins. It just plugs in, doesn't have molded end like the KZ cables. @Slater really likes his.
> The premolded ear guides make fit a bit more difficult than cables. They are a stiff plastic inside a sheath.
> ...


I figure if I'm going to get stuck with the disadvantages of Bluetooth I ought to benefit from its advantages too so I'm disinclined to get an adapter dongle, plus not sure my phone supports any of the super fancy ones anyhow, and I'm only going to be Bluetooth-ing if I'm flying somewhere (in which case I'd be using my Bose QC30) or else walking around outdoors in which case it's a noisy distracting environment anyhow and the quality difference is probably not going to matter as much as it might otherwise.

Both flavors of Bluetooth cable (lopsided fat controls and both-sides slimmer control/battery) are claiming 4.2 on KZ's store pages and skimming the most recent page of reviews both seem to be largely favorable.  *scratches head*  Maybe they updated the old?  I dunno, still thinking to hold off on getting the cable for the moment so maybe someone will conveniently pop up going "Oh, <X> works perfectly with the CCA C10 for Bluetooth!".


----------



## assassin10000

Veyska said:


> I figure if I'm going to get stuck with the disadvantages of Bluetooth I ought to benefit from its advantages too so I'm disinclined to get an adapter dongle, plus not sure my phone supports any of the super fancy ones anyhow, and I'm only going to be Bluetooth-ing if I'm flying somewhere (in which case I'd be using my Bose QC30) or else walking around outdoors in which case it's a noisy distracting environment anyhow and the quality difference is probably not going to matter as much as it might otherwise.
> 
> Both flavors of Bluetooth cable (lopsided fat controls and both-sides slimmer control/battery) are claiming 4.2 on KZ's store pages and skimming the most recent page of reviews both seem to be largely favorable.  *scratches head*  Maybe they updated the old?  I dunno, still thinking to hold off on getting the cable for the moment so maybe someone will conveniently pop up going "Oh, <X> works perfectly with the CCA C10 for Bluetooth!".



Sorry, there are 3 versions KZ BT cables. Single dongle (lopsided) 4.2, dual control/battery (even) 4.1 and dual control battery (even) 4.2 . The last, dual control/battery (even) 4.2 is the one I was referring to. The lopsided 4.2 and even 4.1 were the ones with prior bad reviews IIRC.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

purplesun said:


> I wish my hair could get that high! And, not grey!



My hair does this every morning


----------



## purplesun

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> My hair does this every morning


Don't be rude!
Oh, your mean hair?
They have cream for that.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

purplesun said:


> Don't be rude!
> Oh, your mean hair?
> They have cream for that.



Haha, cold water works well, for my hair I mean.


----------



## neo_styles

Further developments on the "shocking" headphone front:

I work in a relatively dry lab environment, making me pretty prone to buildup of static electricity. This is something I can experience every time I take off my labcoat and, when I'm wearing the ZS7, I can feel static discharge travel all the way through the pin connectors to my ears. I'm attributing this more to the metal casing of the ZS7 than anything as I don't experience the same issues with any of the acrylic-cased KZs. Do I think this is a design flaw? At the current moment, no, but it's the most solid hypothesis on why I can feel a little pop-pop-pop on my ears as that seems to be the only time I experience this.

Tl;dr = ZS7/6/5 probably aren't the safest bets if you're someone who's going to be in high-static discharge environments.


----------



## nxnje

neo_styles said:


> Further developments on the "shocking" headphone front:
> 
> I work in a relatively dry lab environment, making me pretty prone to buildup of static electricity. This is something I can experience every time I take off my labcoat and, when I'm wearing the ZS7, I can feel static discharge travel all the way through the pin connectors to my ears. I'm attributing this more to the metal casing of the ZS7 than anything as I don't experience the same issues with any of the acrylic-cased KZs. Do I think this is a design flaw? At the current moment, no, but it's the most solid hypothesis on why I can feel a little pop-pop-pop on my ears as that seems to be the only time I experience this.
> 
> Tl;dr = ZS7/6/5 probably aren't the safest bets if you're someone who's going to be in high-static discharge environments.


When i use my edr1 connected to my pc i often get a little shockwave in the ear.
I know what you mean.
I think it's due to the metal housing, but i can say i even got this problem with an old chinese plastic headphone that i've got on aliexpress under the razer hammerhead pro in ear headphones.
I don't know how to explain but i tried to understand what could it be and never figured out.


----------



## actorlife

Any word if KZ is working on budget wireless buds?


----------



## Slater (Feb 26, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Any word if KZ is working on budget wireless buds?



I hope not.

If I had to rate the overall engineering and quality of all their products, their Bluetooth offerings would be ranked at the bottom of my list.

Granted, I never tried their BTE earphones, but then again I had no desire to (given their Bluetooth track record). Maybe they got their act together for the BTE.

If they ever did, they would be wise to just slap their name on something someone else’s high quality product, like the ES100 or the TRN BT20.


----------



## Letm

Hello. Time for an update on the kz bte!

As one of the few owners of kz bte I can say they are very good while using aptx. Some of you will remember that, while the connection was very stable with my phone, it has some problems with my fire TV stick 4k. I can now confirm that it was a band problem. After switching the wifi connection from 2.4 GHz to 5 GHz, the connection between mi kz bte and the fire stick is flawless. I can recommend the product as a cheap Bluetooth alternative.


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## neo_styles (Feb 26, 2019)

Punk fans rejoice! Currently listening to this sampler, which surprisingly registered as a HDCD (24/44.1) during my rip with dbpoweramp:


​Can confirm the ZS7 does this album proud. Nice and clean with a good amount of grunt.


----------



## neo_styles

I should also add, as a note of IEM sensitivity, that the ZS7 seem ridiculously easy to drive on my Shanling M0. On Low Gain and a Minimum Slow filter selected, 30/120 volume steps is more than enough to get these things up to concert volume for my ears, so a need for power shouldn't be on your mind if you're considering them. Usually, I sit between 40 and 45 on the ZS6, ES4, or ED16.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> I should also add, as a note of IEM sensitivity, that the ZS7 seem ridiculously easy to drive on my Shanling M0. On Low Gain and a Minimum Slow filter selected, 30/120 volume steps is more than enough to get these things up to concert volume for my ears, so a need for power shouldn't be on your mind if you're considering them. Usually, I sit between 40 and 45 on the ZS6, ES4, or ED16.



Agreed. ZS7 is very efficient and easy to drive. They even pair well with Bluetooth cables.

I think only having 1 DD instead of 2 like the ZS5 and ZS6 is what helped with the power efficiency.


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## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm loving the ED16 right now with spinfits and an 8 core silver plated weave KZ cable. It allows old recordings to shine and sound as unique as the day they were created. It also ups the clarity and raises the sound quality. Other iems change the sound considerably sometimes acting like they're not sure what to do. But the ED16 makes the music crisp and clear and like it was meant to sound. If you're into 20+ year old music, grab a pair.


----------



## purplesun

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm loving the ED16 right now with spinfits and an 8 core silver plated weave KZ cable. It allows old recordings to shine and sound as unique as the day they were created. It also ups the clarity and raises the sound quality. Other iems change the sound considerably sometimes acting like they're not sure what to do. But the ED16 makes the music crisp and clear and like it was meant to sound. If you're into 20+ year old music, grab a pair.


Is it more like KZ ATR with the highs cleaned up a bit?
Or more like KZ ZSN where the highs are emphasized?
The first choice would suit my ears.


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## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 26, 2019)

purplesun said:


> Is it more like KZ ATR with the highs cleaned up a bit?
> Or more like KZ ZSN where the highs are emphasized?
> The first choice would suit my ears.


It doesnt sound like the highs are cleaned up, making it a bit more natural. They are a good fit for older recordings and acoustic ones.The ED16 also sound a bit noisy. The sound sig is coldish while the ATR is warm/er. The ED16 is much better than the ATR but if the latter (ATR) is the only thing you've heard -  it's incredible especially for hip hop.

I've taken the ATR and ES4 (mini ZS10?) off my favourites because you can do much better in 2019.


----------



## purplesun

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It doesnt sound like the highs are cleaned up, making it a bit more natural. They are a good fit for older recordings and acoustic ones.The ED16 also sound a bit noisy. The sound sig is coldish while the ATR is warm/er. The ED16 is much better than the ATR but if the latter (ATR) is the only thing you've heard -  it's incredible especially for hip hop.


Thanks for the description; perhaps it's not what I had in mind. The ATR had been the IEM I use when I fly, for the isolation & accidental loss/breakage. Had not looked at any earphones since early 2017. I fully agree that 2019's SQ is a step up from then. My recent experience with AS06 (and AS10) made me decide to increase the budget for my flying setup. I just received my pair of CCAs; so still have them to audition before deciding if any hits the price/SQ sweet spot for my new setup.


----------



## rambomhtri

Hi, one question:
While I am waiting for my KZ ZS7 to arrive, I'm using my old school in-ear  cheapos that are simply "OK". One thing I notice is that I can hear, for example, a guitar track isolated very clean and nice, for example an intro where only the guitar plays. Then, the bass and drums come into play, while the exact same guitar track is still being played. The guitar track becomes very unclean and undefined when there are bass or drums.
Is this a problem of bad quality headphones?
How can you tell if it's the mix of the song that creates that mess?
Should good quality IEM's like ZS7 with multidrivers playback the guitar track almost as clean when bass and drums enter?


----------



## Slater (Feb 27, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> Hi, one question:
> While I am waiting for my KZ ZS7 to arrive, I'm using my old school in-ear  cheapos that are simply "OK". One thing I notice is that I can hear, for example, a guitar track isolated very clean and nice, for example an intro where only the guitar plays. Then, the bass and drums come into play, while the exact same guitar track is still being played. The guitar track becomes very unclean and undefined when there are bass or drums.
> Is this a problem of bad quality headphones?
> How can you tell if it's the mix of the song that creates that mess?
> Should good quality IEM's like ZS7 with multidrivers playback the guitar track almost as clean when bass and drums enter?



It may not be the earphones. It could be mastered that way.

The behavior you’re describing could be the recording mics, the mixing, post processing, dynamic compression, loss from conversion to different formats etc.

Think of it like watching a movie on a TV (movie=source music, TV=headphone).

You can watch a worn out VHS tape on a 4K high def TV, and it’s going to look like crap. The issue isn’t the gear, it’s the source.

Likewise, you can watch a 4K high def Blu-ray on a worn out 1960s tube TV, and it’s going to look like crap. The issue isn’t the source, it’s the gear.

Only when you match good source with good gear will you get good results. That’s why a Blu-ray on a 4K TV looks awesome.

Best thing to do is not stress about it or overthink it. Just wait until your ZS7 show up and see for yourself.


----------



## crabdog

After spending some more time with the ZS7 I'm beginning to think it's pretty outstanding for around $37.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

crabdog said:


> After spending some more time with the ZS7 I'm beginning to think it's pretty outstanding for around $37.



Same here, it sounds surprisingly refined.


----------



## neo_styles

crabdog said:


> After spending some more time with the ZS7 I'm beginning to think it's pretty outstanding for around $37.


Considering you've got experience with some of CA's FIBAE products, how would you explain what you're hearing with the ZS7 in comparison?


----------



## Slater (Feb 27, 2019)

crabdog said:


> After spending some more time with the ZS7 I'm beginning to think it's pretty outstanding for around $37





LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Same here, it sounds surprisingly refined.



Same here.

I can’t believe it took a seller to convince KZ to make these exclusively.

One would think KZ would have been chomping at the bit to follow up the ZS6 with this.

If it wasn’t for that seller, we probably would have never got the ZS7. And thinking of that makes my heart sink.

It really demonstrates that KZ is fixing issues and definitely making improvements as time goes on. The ZSN (which is the ZST’s replacement) is head and shoulders above it, just like the ZS7 vs ZS6 and the ZS4 vs ZS3.

They’ve of course stumbled in the past, taking steps backwards (like the ZS2 vs ZS1, EDR2 vs EDR1, ZS5 v2 vs ZS5 v1, and HDS2 vs HDS1).

I am curious what they have planned for 2019. Are they going to follow up with new versions of gems like the ED9, HDS3, etc? Or are they purposely slowing down the KZ brand because they are ramping up the more premium/expensive CCA brand?

The pursuit of money/profit is quite the motivator...


----------



## crabdog

neo_styles said:


> Considering you've got experience with some of CA's FIBAE products, how would you explain what you're hearing with the ZS7 in comparison?


Wow, that's quite a leap going from a KZ to a custom CA lol. 

The most obvious difference is the zs7's dynamic bass. It has real authority and power that BA's simply cannot match. However, the FIBAE2 does have a somewhat similar sound signature. What you get with the F2 is better soundstage, more tonal accuracy plus better imaging and layering amongst other things. I'd go deeper but really don't want to sit here and A/B them. I will say that for the price of the ZS7 you're getting FAR closer to a FIBAE quality sound than $100 would have got you a couple of years ago. I could quite happily live with the ZS7 as a daily driver for activities like working out, walking or public transport. That's pretty impressive considering the mountain of earphones of all prices I have sitting near my desk.


----------



## neo_styles

crabdog said:


> Wow, that's quite a leap going from a KZ to a custom CA lol.
> 
> The most obvious difference is the zs7's dynamic bass. It has real authority and power that BA's simply cannot match. However, the FIBAE2 does have a somewhat similar sound signature. What you get with the F2 is better soundstage, more tonal accuracy plus better imaging and layering amongst other things. I'd go deeper but really don't want to sit here and A/B them. I will say that for the price of the ZS7 you're getting FAR closer to a FIBAE quality sound than $100 would have got you a couple of years ago. I could quite happily live with the ZS7 as a daily driver for activities like working out, walking or public transport. That's pretty impressive considering the mountain of earphones of all prices I have sitting near my desk.


I'll admit I asked for somewhat selfish reasons since I'm starting to look at CA for a pair of CIEMs myself and I do enjoy the ZS7 quite a bit, so I'm relying on people who have experience with FIBAEs to help me decide whether I go with a 2, 3 or 4. Considering I use them on daily commutes, I'd still like to hear less of the environment around me and the ZS7 brings in enough to be distracting on my more dynamic material.

I also try to ignore the dollar signs when looking at sound signature or I'm afraid I'd never leave the price bracket at all. I still think KZ could improve on detail retrieval and work harder to bring down that midbass bloom (which I've seen are major pros to the FIBAE line), but I'm grateful that they tamed down the top-end without losing all of the sense of space from the ZS6 (though I think it still diminished enough to notice in comparison).


----------



## crabdog

neo_styles said:


> I'll admit I asked for somewhat selfish reasons since I'm starting to look at CA for a pair of CIEMs myself and I do enjoy the ZS7 quite a bit, so I'm relying on people who have experience with FIBAEs to help me decide whether I go with a 2, 3 or 4. Considering I use them on daily commutes, I'd still like to hear less of the environment around me and the ZS7 brings in enough to be distracting on my more dynamic material.
> 
> I also try to ignore the dollar signs when looking at sound signature or I'm afraid I'd never leave the price bracket at all. I still think KZ could improve on detail retrieval and work harder to bring down that midbass bloom (which I've seen are major pros to the FIBAE line), but I'm grateful that they tamed down the top-end without losing all of the sense of space from the ZS6 (though I think it still diminished enough to notice in comparison).


Fair enough. From what I know so far it sounds like the F4 may even be closer to the ZS7 signature than the F2 is.


----------



## rambomhtri

Slater said:


> It may not be the earphones. It could be mastered that way.
> 
> The behavior you’re describing could be the recording mics, the mixing, post processing, dynamic compression, loss from conversion to different formats etc.
> 
> ...



Yes, but I'm talking about a smartphone playing back a FLAC audio file. I know a smartphone is not a $1000 DAP, but it happens in pretty much all the songs (I forgot to mention this). I guess my real question is:
Is it normal that if a song starts with a guitar only (or vocals), and it's so clear, when the bass and drums come in that clarity gets completely messed?
Or that's basically that my audio equipment is low quality in terms of sound? (which happens to be: $300 smartphone using normally $10-20 cheap in-ear from supermarket)

I read that multidrivers help a lot when separating instruments, so I was curious about it.


----------



## pbui44

rambomhtri said:


> Yes, but I'm talking about a smartphone playing back a FLAC audio file. I know a smartphone is not a $1000 DAP, but it happens in pretty much all the songs (I forgot to mention this). I guess my real question is:
> Is it normal that if a song starts with a guitar only (or vocals), and it's so clear, when the bass and drums come in that clarity gets completely messed?
> Or that's basically that my audio equipment is low quality in terms of sound? (which happens to be: $300 smartphone using normally $10-20 cheap in-ear from supermarket)
> 
> I read that multidrivers help a lot when separating instruments, so I was curious about it.



I know that you are wanting @Slater to respond, but I read your previous question and I might be supplemental what you want in reproduction with “bass and drums”.

No matter how specialized your equipment is for your ears, always do your best to make sure your electricity is capable to producing clean current (no open wires, you have a surge protector or power conditioner with grounded protection), your equipment is working properly (no amps have damaged parts, your XLR/RCA/etc. connections are properly connected to their intended areas, etc.), and that you have everything properly tuned (presets are made, guitar strings are wired properly, etc.).  

Now that is out of the way, I can say one always-safe audio bet: always trust your ears, as they are your ears and no one else’s ears.  That is why @Slater is telling you to wait until the ZS7 comes and you can try it with your smartphone.  I mean, I can tell you that those who like to quietly practice with their guitar and guitar amp prefer the DT770 Pro 250 ohm (DT880 is well-known for mixing, too), but do they go well with drums?  Would a band-mate like the DT250, instead?  You will never know until you hear from your equipment or them, which is your feedback.  

Wow, it looks like the tiny board blocking the ZS7’s vents might provide isolation and airiness for you.  I guess we will just have to wait and see what you think.


----------



## Jecht Auron (Feb 28, 2019)

Been reading about China made IEM for awhile but thought cant be that good for the price. Well I will never doubt your knowledge ever again. Got a pair of KZ ZSR and must say I was blown away by the sound. I have a problem with the highs hurting my ear drums. Like I mean piercing pains especially music from the 50s to 70s. These does not do this at all. It's been a pleasant listening experience for sure and can listen to my oldies again. I am in no way an audiophile just a person that like to listen to music. I will say the bass was deeper than I expected. But it's not a down point to where I dont like them. I think they sound better than my Shure 215 that I have.

Any recommendations for IEMs for listening to older music and also what size are the replacement buds? Which brands would you recommend as again I am still a newbie and forgot I had an account here lol.

Again your info on this forum is great and look fwd to buying more china made IEM to try out. As my sons cat loves to chew the cords when I leave them out lol.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 28, 2019)

It's interesting how good the ZSN is... I almost wouldn't hesitate to say it's better then the ZS10 and AS10 if those didn't sound so good because of the high quality materials they use.

That ZSN Pro sure must be something...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

purplesun said:


> Thanks for the description; perhaps it's not what I had in mind. The ATR had been the IEM I use when I fly, for the isolation & accidental loss/breakage. Had not looked at any earphones since early 2017.


The ED16 sounds like it was made 20 years ago. I guess that's not your thing.  It makes my ears feel like time travelers.


----------



## DynamicEars

Jecht Auron said:


> Been reading about China made IEM for awhile but thought cant be that good for the price. Well I will never doubt your knowledge ever again. Got a pair of KZ ZSR and must say I was blown away by the sound. I have a problem with the highs hurting my ear drums. Like I mean piercing pains especially music from the 50s to 70s. These does not do this at all. It's been a pleasant listening experience for sure and can listen to my oldies again. I am in no way an audiophile just a person that like to listen to music. I will say the bass was deeper than I expected. But it's not a down point to where I dont like them. I think they sound better than my Shure 215 that I have.
> 
> Any recommendations for IEMs for listening to older music and also what size are the replacement buds? Which brands would you recommend as again I am still a newbie and forgot I had an account here lol.
> 
> Again your info on this forum is great and look fwd to buying more china made IEM to try out. As my sons cat loves to chew the cords when I leave them out lol.



Its because of peak of high mids that made shouty sound, how much is your budget? perhaps i suggest to try several different sound signature from cheam iem to find out which sound signature to start with. 
-SOny MH755 (but the cable is very short as it produced to use with bluetooth receiver) and if only you can find genuine one because a lot of counterfeits laying around (less than $10)
-****, known for flat natural sound signature and very good at $25
-moondrop crescent  at $28

I assuming you prefer ZSR than Shure 215 because its more dynamic, punchy bass and boosted highs? if that the case you may wont like ****. Sony MH755 if you can find original one will be fun iem, punchy bass, great sounding without peak on high mids area

Maybe friends here can help also


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> Its because of peak of high mids that made shouty sound, how much is your budget? perhaps i suggest to try several different sound signature from cheam iem to find out which sound signature to start with.
> -SOny MH755 (but the cable is very short as it produced to use with bluetooth receiver) and if only you can find genuine one because a lot of counterfeits laying around (less than $10)
> -****, known for flat natural sound signature and very good at $25
> -moondrop crescent  at $28
> ...



I’d recommend something with removable cable, since his cat chews cords. He doesn’t have to get a bunch of fancy upgrade cables, but if his cat chews the cables he can easily and cheaply replace the cable for about $3.

Another option is something inexpensive to begin with, such as the EDR1 (which is $3-$4 by itself). If the cats chew a pair, toss it and pull out another.

As far as the sound signature, I prefer gear with elevated bass for 50-70s music. The recordings are usually light on the low end due to the recording technology used at the time, and I feel it gives that era of music a kick that is much more enjoyable. I imagine that would have been what the music sounded like live anyways, as there was usually a healthy percussion section.

To combat the shoutyness, you can find something with reduced upper mids like you mentioned. To that I would also add something with a smoother treble region. The last thing you want is a bright and grainy top end, when much of the music is already bright and grainy due to the recording.

Unfortunately, most KZs are hybrids nowadays, which are going to have brighter treble. Therefore, my vote would be EDR1, or ZS3 (possibly the ZS3E, although I have not personally heard it yet). Both ZS3 options have removable cables.

For something higher budget and a definite step up in sound quality, I think the Magaosi BK50 and ibasso IT01 are excellent choices for those genres. Both use mmcx removable cables.


----------



## Gazd

I have one question. Does the Zs6 better than the ZS7 in some ways?


----------



## nxnje

Gazd said:


> I have one question. Does the Zs6 better than the ZS7 in some ways?


More air and sparkle and a little bit more detail
You have to consider that zs6 high end is really peaky so the gain you have from these 3 things are all put down by the fatiguing treble peak


----------



## purplesun

Jecht Auron said:


> I have a problem with the highs hurting my ear drums. Like I mean piercing pains especially music from the 50s to 70s. These does not do this at all. It's been a pleasant listening experience for sure and can listen to my oldies again


Would be helpful if you could list some YouTube examples of the 50s to 70s music you listen to. It might narrow down the treble issue you are having.


----------



## Gazd

nxnje said:


> More air and sparkle and a little bit more detail
> You have to consider that zs6 high end is really peaky so the gain you have from these 3 things are all put down by the fatiguing treble peak


How about the soundstage and does the zs6's bass bleed into other part like mid and treble?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 28, 2019)

nxnje said:


> More air and sparkle and a little bit more detail
> You have to consider that zs6 high end is really peaky so the gain you have from these 3 things are all put down by the fatiguing treble peak



Unless you area like me and do not find it to have a fatiguing treble peak.  I do listen at lower volume than many on here do.  Also the source can make a difference.  I have some excellent DAPs.



GaDelete Draftzd said:


> How about the soundstage and does the zs6's bass bleed into other part like mid and treble?



Excellent soundstage and I do not hear any bass bleed.  I love the bass on the ZS6.  For me it goes deep when needed but is not overdone.


----------



## nxnje

Gazd said:


> How about the soundstage and does the zs6's bass bleed into other part like mid and treble?


Imho, the bass one zs6 is just a bit over what i like. It bleeds a very little into the mids.
The soundstage is great on the zs6.


mbwilson111 said:


> Unless you area like me and do not find it to have a fatiguing treble peak.  I do listen at lower volume than many on here do.  Also the source can make a difference.  I have some excellent DAPs.


I personally like the zs6 too, and i even do not find the treble fatiguing. In any case, i always say people that the zs6 has (objectively) a treble peak that the majority of people do not like or fins fatiguing.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 28, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Imho, the bass one zs6 is just a bit over what i like. It bleeds a very little into the mids.
> The soundstage is great on the zs6.
> 
> I personally like the zs6 too, and i even do not find the treble fatiguing. In any case, i always say people that the zs6 has (objectively) a treble peak that the majority of people do not like or fins fatiguing.



So much depends on the individual fit, ears, hearing etc...they sound great to me.

I could make them sound terrible with the wrong tips...


----------



## neo_styles

nxnje said:


> Imho, the bass one zs6 is just a bit over what i like. It bleeds a very little into the mids.
> The soundstage is great on the zs6.
> 
> I personally like the zs6 too, and i even do not find the treble fatiguing. In any case, i always say people that the zs6 has (objectively) a treble peak that the majority of people do not like or fins fatiguing.


I also think people assume that a sound signature with a "treble peak" is automatically a bad thing. One of the biggest reasons I held off on buying the DT1990 for as long as I did was because people tend to associate Beyers with automatically being treble cannons, which wasn't something I've been able to observe. Instead, they've turned out to be one of the most honest pair of cans I own (I lump IEMs into that category), yet are absolutely a feast for the ears on genres that lend themselves well to head/earphones having that signature. The same can translate to the ZS6, which do have more presence in the upper midrange, but aren't what I consider "stabby" at all.


----------



## nxnje

neo_styles said:


> I also think people assume that a sound signature with a "treble peak" is automatically a bad thing. One of the biggest reasons I held off on buying the DT1990 for as long as I did was because people tend to associate Beyers with automatically being treble cannons, which wasn't something I've been able to observe. Instead, they've turned out to be one of the most honest pair of cans I own (I lump IEMs into that category), yet are absolutely a feast for the ears on genres that lend themselves well to head/earphones having that signature. The same can translate to the ZS6, which do have more presence in the upper midrange, but aren't what I consider "stabby" at all.


I understand what you say.
Same thing here.. 
I have to admit that the first days i used the zs6 with stock tips i used to have a continuous headache. 
Then i kept playing it in my ears and made some tip rolling and i was fine with it. Great SQ, great soundstage and airy feeling.
Playing my zs7 right now in my ears feel a bit less airy but i like the improvement on the sub-bass region. I feel this sounds smoother and i prefer this but the zs6 remains a great iem and at his price right now it's a steal.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Feb 28, 2019)

Oddly enough, wide bore tips were the secret sauce for me when it came to the ZS6. I like the elevated treble but didn't want any more so for the longest time I stuck with small bore tips. In my experience they usually restrain the treble. Apparently not on the ZS6. With wide bores they're much more balanced sounding. Definitely recommended for anyone that hasn't tried them yet. Just keep in mind that most I tried are a little loose, so you might have to thicken the nozzle with a basic mod (thicken it with some tape, cut the bore out of a spare set of tips, etc.) so they don't fall off in your ear.


----------



## eclein (Feb 28, 2019)

mbwilson111 I listen at low levels also 95% of the time. Just enough volume so the iem starts to open up/come alive/do its thing so to speak its easier to listen longer and really get lost in the music.

Soon after I sell some JBL 4312A’s I’ve got a buyer for you must tell me your favorite DAPS, so I can get some ideas for a flagship type.

So does anybody know of anything new coming down the KZ highway? I’m so pleased with the C16s that I’m gonna either try T3(no Tin in collection), a tremendously insane multiple BA iem or so ortho types I’m seeing. Think KZ will go with any exotic type drivers folks?

 Forgot to mention
I got the shirt clip (left) from Penon and in case anyone’s interested they are nice and hefty and *large*.
Pretty inexpensive grabbed 2 myself....just in case someone is thinking about getting some.


----------



## Jecht Auron

DynamicEars said:


> Its because of peak of high mids that made shouty sound, how much is your budget? perhaps i suggest to try several different sound signature from cheam iem to find out which sound signature to start with.
> -SOny MH755 (but the cable is very short as it produced to use with bluetooth receiver) and if only you can find genuine one because a lot of counterfeits laying around (less than $10)
> -****, known for flat natural sound signature and very good at $25
> -moondrop crescent  at $28
> ...



Actually I find the highs plesent with the KZ ZSR. Yeah I prefer them over the shure 215. One nice thing is for the price even if I dont like them I can give them to my son. He tends to be brutal with IEM lol. I guess I'm looking for a milder bass response. The ZSR sounds great with more modern music and I guess I want to tailor my soon to be growing collection to specific types of music. As I listen to a little jazz/blues and classical. You have given me plenty to look over that's for sure. Budget wise I have a decent job but want to stay in below $100 for now. Wife wants to take the family to Disney in July. 



Slater said:


> I’d recommend something with removable cable, since his cat chews cords. He doesn’t have to get a bunch of fancy upgrade cables, but if his cat chews the cables he can easily and cheaply replace the cable for about $3.
> 
> Another option is something inexpensive to begin with, such as the EDR1 (which is $3-$4 by itself). If the cats chew a pair, toss it and pull out another.
> 
> ...


 the KZ does have a more defined highs but I dont find them painful to listen to compared to other IEMs I have owned in the past. Now I do like the designs of the shure 215 and the KZ ZSR because I tend to sleep with them in and the pillow doesnt press them in my ear. The ones you recommended that are cylinder shaped. Would they be pushed in to my ears if I was to fall asleep with them in?  You have like I said above given me plenty to look over. Thank you both for taking the time to give me the information and suggestions.  

Now replacement buds I need the 5mm version size? I was looking at spinfit as from what I read people on here likes them and they are comfortable. That's another prob I have with my ears. They tend to hurt my ears if I wear them too long. I think it's because I had a lot of ear infections when I was a kid. So any suggestions on tips? 

I do have a DAC I need to pull out. It's not much but did the job for my 598se. 

Again thanks


----------



## DocHoliday (Feb 28, 2019)

eclein said:


> So does anybody know of anything new coming down the KZ highway? I’m so pleased with the C16s that I’m gonna either try T3(no Tin in collection), a tremendously insane multiple BA iem or so ortho types I’m seeing. Think KZ will go with any exotic type drivers folks?





Jecht Auron said:


> Actually I find the highs plesent with the KZ ZSR. Yeah I prefer them over the shure 215.
> 
> the KZ does have a more defined highs but I dont find them painful to listen to compared to other IEMs I have owned in the past.





Slater said:


> I can’t believe it took a seller to convince KZ to make these exclusively.
> 
> One would think KZ would have been chomping at the bit to follow up the ZS6 with this.
> 
> ...




I think many of the KZ veterans will agree with me that KZ has been relatively quiet over the past few months (barring the ZS7) which is quite unusual for them. We're used to seeing a steady stream of new models at 90-day intervals (approximately).  Competition is fierce in the niche that they've dominated for several years and we could comment or speculate about KZ's upcoming models but it's difficult to say anything definitively. KZ's slow but steady progress (BA10, AS10, AS06 and ZS7) keep things moving in the right direction but given the fact that TRN, Tin Audio and BQEYZ have now entered the battlefield the smartest thing that KZ could do is use a proxy to broaden the fan base and up the ante. They are accomplishing this with CCA. 

Currently, TRN is hit or miss (i.e. - V10, V30 vs V20, V80), Tin Audio seems to be finding their footing (T3 & T2 vs T2Pro) and CCA has "reportedly" scored two hits out of their three releases (C10 & C16 vs C04). As a fan of the company, I do enjoy the journey. Given the newfound competition in their particular niche I hope that KZ takes time to ruminate about BQEYZ's ability to eliminate unpleasant peaks and Tin Audio's ability to "hold" the spotlight for an extended period of time due to their acumen where tuning is concerned. A liitle over a year ago KZ employed the BQEYZ-like drawdown (4khz - 10khz) on the ZSR which keeps sibilance and strident behavior at bay and I would like to see more of this from KZ. The ZSR is still one of my favorite KZ's.

Of course I would like to see KZ revisit their roots by releasing a new line of all aluminum ZSN-like housing single dynamic models that deliver refined but classic ED9, EDR2, ATR and HDS3 sound signatures. It's probably wishful thinking on my part but given the current affinity for exceptional dynamic driver IEMs (Kanas, ITO1, MH755, etc.) I think it is worth KZ's consideration. 

Perhaps let CCA focus on hybrid and multi-BA in-ears while KZ focuses on the very thing that put them on the map.....dynamics. 

Love my ZS6 and BA10 but a redux of the "airy" ED9, "holophonic" HDS3  or "all-rounder" ATR in aluminum shells with detachable cables and improved diaphragms might just be the way to go.

This would be the strategy if it were my company. Do one thing really, really well with regular improvements (i.e. - Porsche 911) and your fan base will remain captive.....willingly.

Just my two cents.


----------



## DynamicEars

Jecht Auron said:


> Actually I find the highs plesent with the KZ ZSR. Yeah I prefer them over the shure 215. One nice thing is for the price even if I dont like them I can give them to my son. He tends to be brutal with IEM lol. I guess I'm looking for a milder bass response. The ZSR sounds great with more modern music and I guess I want to tailor my soon to be growing collection to specific types of music. As I listen to a little jazz/blues and classical. You have given me plenty to look over that's for sure. Budget wise I have a decent job but want to stay in below $100 for now. Wife wants to take the family to Disney in July.
> 
> the KZ does have a more defined highs but I dont find them painful to listen to compared to other IEMs I have owned in the past. Now I do like the designs of the shure 215 and the KZ ZSR because I tend to sleep with them in and the pillow doesnt press them in my ear. The ones you recommended that are cylinder shaped. Would they be pushed in to my ears if I was to fall asleep with them in?  You have like I said above given me plenty to look over. Thank you both for taking the time to give me the information and suggestions.
> 
> ...



Now that i know your preferences is towards jazz, blues, classics, and prefer mild bass response and your budget is quite stretchable until $100, i can recommended these great iems :
(luckily we are sharing same genres, and for that you want mids to be the best)

Tin Audio T2 for $45 (great mids, very natural timbre, a little on bright side, very mild bass and clean - can feel lacks for some people)
BQEYZ KB100 for $45 (balanced signature with great mids, got a little bit punch on bass, very smooth sounding, slightly rolls off trebles, great soundstage for the price)
Sony MH755 for $5-8 (harman target sound signature, punchy bass, safe buy, narrow soundstage but very very cheap, please do noted cable is very short and J shaped one)
Moondrop Crescent for $28 (harman target, detail and smooth, great value at less than $30, coming from Moondrop, company that bring you Kanas Pro)
CCA C10 for $30 (balanced signature, 5 drivers, sister company of KZ but tuned to more balance signature)
**** for $27 (neutral almost flat signature, clear sound)

high chance you'll like those iems.


----------



## jibberish

Quick word of caution for anybody thinking of buying a ZS7 on AE, I ordered one from MissAudio on AE because they had a very good price, but after a long wait with no communication from the seller the order was finally cancelled by AE. So despite the good ZS7 price being advertised by that seller, it's probably best to order it elsewhere.


----------



## B9Scrambler

jibberish said:


> Quick word of caution for anybody thinking of buying a ZS7 on AE, I ordered one from MissAudio on AE because they had a very good price, but after a long wait with no communication from the seller the order was finally cancelled by AE. So despite the good ZS7 price being advertised by that seller, it's probably best to order it elsewhere.



Maybe they oversold? I know a few have purchased theirs there, including myself, though mine is still in the mail and on it's way to Toronto (according to the tracking info). Either way, that sucks. Hopefully you were able to order a set elsewhere.


----------



## rambomhtri

jibberish said:


> Quick word of caution for anybody thinking of buying a ZS7 on AE, I ordered one from MissAudio on AE because they had a very good price, but after a long wait with no communication from the seller the order was finally cancelled by AE. So despite the good ZS7 price being advertised by that seller, it's probably best to order it elsewhere.


And that's why I contacted my seller explaining this situation and got my pair that very day delivered, because I was smelling something alike would happen to me. What I can't understand is: first, they know how many KZ ZS7 they have, there's a remaining stock number in each item. I can't imagine why the system doesn't show they are out of stock if they know they don't have anymore.


----------



## neo_styles

jibberish said:


> Quick word of caution for anybody thinking of buying a ZS7 on AE, I ordered one from MissAudio on AE because they had a very good price, but after a long wait with no communication from the seller the order was finally cancelled by AE. So despite the good ZS7 price being advertised by that seller, it's probably best to order it elsewhere.


Since you're in the US, I'd suggest just ordering from Amazon. My boss ordered from the same seller and we've compared our pairs against each other. They're authentic.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

jibberish said:


> Quick word of caution for anybody thinking of buying a ZS7 on AE, I ordered one from MissAudio on AE because they had a very good price, but after a long wait with no communication from the seller the order was finally cancelled by AE. So despite the good ZS7 price being advertised by that seller, it's probably best to order it elsewhere.



I ordered mine there and had no problems.


----------



## Gazd (Mar 1, 2019)

Gonna buy the ZS7 from AE then. Hope I'm not wrong about this. So many peoples said the ZS7 is on top of the line of KZ's headphones now among the As10 and the Ba10


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> Gonna buy the ZS7 from AE then. Hope I'm not wrong about this. So many peoples said the ZS7 is on top of the line of KZ's headphones now among the As10 and the Ba10


Which pairs do you currently own?


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> Which pairs do you currently own?


The Zs6 I'm using it and love iit.The soundstage the bass the mid but only the treble is too hard for me to take in


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> The Zs6 I'm using it and love iit.The soundstage the bass the mid but only the treble is too hard for me to take in


So are you looking for a stepped upgrade or something that's more of a shift in sound signature? If it's a stepped upgrade, the ZS7 would be a good choice. If it's something completely different, I'd suggest the AS10, but it's totally up to your preferences. Don't have experience with the BA10, so can't comment on it.


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> So are you looking for a stepped upgrade or something that's more of a shift in sound signature? If it's a stepped upgrade, the ZS7 would be a good choice. If it's something completely different, I'd suggest the AS10, but it's totally up to your preferences. Don't have experience with the BA10, so can't comment on it.


Just a steeped upgrade I think because I love the Zs6 signature. If the Zs7 still have all the good things of the Zs6 on it. It would be great!


----------



## Tooros

I ordered from there after seeing recommendations on here. Mine shipped and has been received in the UK. Sitting in customs as far as I can tell. Quickest delivery I’ve ever had from AE.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

I prefer the ZS7 over the AS10.


----------



## Mr. Browstone

Slater said:


> Attn KZ owners:
> 
> So my TRN BT20 showed up today (ordered during 11.11).
> 
> ...




Are you not having problems with the microphone and the buttons on these?

I can agree on the nice range and battery life but mine are either broken or I'm doing something terribly wrong. The quality of the mic during calls is terrible, everything sounds garbled and the external noise is very noticeable. Also, whenever I try to use the buttons to skip a song, my phone just redials the last dialed number. Other than that; yes, these are amazing little things.


----------



## Slater (Mar 1, 2019)

Mr. Browstone said:


> Are you not having problems with the microphone and the buttons on these?
> 
> I can agree on the nice range and battery life but mine are either broken or I'm doing something terribly wrong. The quality of the mic during calls is terrible, everything sounds garbled and the external noise is very noticeable. Also, whenever I try to use the buttons to skip a song, my phone just redials the last dialed number. Other than that; yes, these are amazing little things.



The button doesn’t support music control functionality (ie skip forwards/back). The button is play, pause, call control, power, and pairing. That’s it.

Here’s the manual where it says what the button functions are:




As far as the mic, I don’t use them for calls (mainly music). But the fact that the BT20 units are tucked behind and covered up by your ears should be a clue as to how bad the mic performance will be. It would be like a singer putting the mic in their back pocket. The mic needs to be as close to your mouth as possible to be effective, regardless of whether it’s a cell phone, Bluetooth headset, or studio recording mic.


----------



## Gazd

I know this is weird to ask but what if the KZ ZS7 compare with the Shure 215?


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> I know this is weird to ask but what if the KZ ZS7 compare with the Shure 215?


They don't. The 215, in comparison, is a bloated mess. Only two things I can appreciate from the 215 are isolation and comfort. They're a good use for someone needing cheap stage monitors, but in all music-related categories, I can't recommend them.


----------



## voicemaster

I prefer the zs7 to as10 aswell. Not because as10 is bad or anything, but zs7 is alot more fun and has a better bass body than as10. 

Also, I am cancelling my c16 order because I am going to order the new Samsung galaxy buds. I am pretty satisfied with zs7 as wired and bluetooth cable companion.


----------



## Slater

jibberish said:


> Quick word of caution for anybody thinking of buying a ZS7 on AE, I ordered one from MissAudio on AE because they had a very good price, but after a long wait with no communication from the seller the order was finally cancelled by AE. So despite the good ZS7 price being advertised by that seller, it's probably best to order it elsewhere.





B9Scrambler said:


> Maybe they oversold? I know a few have purchased theirs there, including myself, though mine is still in the mail and on it's way to Toronto (according to the tracking info). Either way, that sucks. Hopefully you were able to order a set elsewhere.



I wanted to let everyone know about this. There isn’t any issue with the ZS7 stock, at least not from MissAudio.

MissAudio was temporarily out of stock right after the Chinese New Year holiday a few weeks ago, because they got slammed and had to fill all of the orders that came in during the CNY holiday.

But as of right now, they are in stock, they’re shipping them just fine. I literally just ordered one for a friend, and it’s already shipped out.

So no worries!


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> They don't. The 215, in comparison, is a bloated mess. Only two things I can appreciate from the 215 are isolation and comfort. They're a good use for someone needing cheap stage monitors, but in all music-related categories, I can't recommend them.


You said that make me happy considering the 215 have the pricetag which can buy two zs7


----------



## TreehornJackie

Hi guys,
Long time lurker here.
I am currently searching for a pair of iems with very good isolation.
I know KZs have a very good price/performace ratio. 
Can anyone please point me to a model(s) with the best sound isolation (does not necessary need to be KZ though). 
I was thinking to buy the Shure 215 and now I saw as a coincidence that this has just been brought in discussion here (with quite a negative impression). 
Thank you in advance. 
Have a great weekend.


----------



## Slater

TreehornJackie said:


> Hi guys,
> Long time lurker here.
> I am currently searching for a pair of iems with very good isolation.
> I know KZs have a very good price/performace ratio.
> ...



What kind of music genres do you like?

Do you know what kind of sound signature you want?

What are you going to be using to listen to them with? A phone, DAP, home stereo, iPod, etc? Will you be using an amplifier?

What is your typical music format? Streaming such as Spotify, MP3, flac, DSD?


----------



## HungryPanda

TreehornJackie said:


> Hi guys,
> Long time lurker here.
> I am currently searching for a pair of iems with very good isolation.
> I know KZs have a very good price/performace ratio.
> ...


ZS4


----------



## TreehornJackie

Hi, 
I am mainly listening to music while working or learning etc. Mostly ambient, chillout, low-fi etc..
I would not like something with too much emphasis on the highs (like ZS6 for example). 
I have already some decent earphones for the other purposes but now I am looking strictly for something to keep me focused on what I am doing and isolating the exterior sound as much as possible. 
My ZS6 are not very good for this and Fiio F5 are even worse (they are good though, for what they are).
Thank you again.
Cheers.
P.S. I noted ZS4.


----------



## Gazd

TreehornJackie said:


> Hi,
> I am mainly listening to music while working or learning etc. Mostly ambient, chillout, low-fi etc..
> I would not like something with too much emphasis on the highs (like ZS6 for example).
> I have already some decent earphones for the other purposes but now I am looking strictly for something to keep me focused on what I am doing and isolating the exterior sound as much as possible.
> ...


I think the ZS7 would fit you consider it still have all the good things of the Zs6 and the high treble is not there anymore


----------



## Gazd

Just ordered my ZS7 from AK audio. Can't wait!


----------



## Slater

TreehornJackie said:


> Hi,
> I am mainly listening to music while working or learning etc. Mostly ambient, chillout, low-fi etc..
> I would not like something with too much emphasis on the highs (like ZS6 for example).
> I have already some decent earphones for the other purposes but now I am looking strictly for something to keep me focused on what I am doing and isolating the exterior sound as much as possible.
> ...



I forgot to ask if you had a preference on wearing style?

'Up' ie behind the ear:

 

Or 'down':
 

They also have some that you can wear either way.


----------



## TreehornJackie

I would like the "behind the ear" type.
The "down" ones, from my experience, don't have the same isolation, regardless of how far inside the ear I push them (this also creates a massive disconfort). 
I haven't tried the Etymotics though, but I never liked the idea of something so deep in my ear.
Cheers.


----------



## Chramko

Hi everyone. Does anyone know of a similarly sized successor to the HDS1 / HDS3 headphones? I have finally run out of my supply and found out, to my horror, that the line appears to be discontinued (only one shady seller of HDS3s on aliexpress). I dearly loved them for their super compact size, they were perfect for me for running. The KZ ED appear to be too big. 
Alternatively, any ideas about similarly sized headphones from other brands (preferably with a 6mm driver)? Sound quality is secondary. Just for the record, I preferred the HDS1 signature. Price should be preferably cheap, since they get abused a lot.


----------



## HungryPanda

I just went for a walk with my ZS7's and although they sound great their isolation is not very good. I will not commute with these.


----------



## pbui44

Chramko said:


> Hi everyone. Does anyone know of a similarly sized successor to the HDS1 / HDS3 headphones? I have finally run out of my supply and found out, to my horror, that the line appears to be discontinued (only one shady seller of HDS3s on aliexpress). I dearly loved them for their super compact size, they were perfect for me for running. The KZ ED appear to be too big.
> Alternatively, any ideas about similarly sized headphones from other brands (preferably with a 6mm driver)? Sound quality is secondary. Just for the record, I preferred the HDS1 signature. Price should be preferably cheap, since they get abused a lot.



Since your liked the KZ HD1S form, I recommend the Final Audio Ex000 series, starting with the E1000 for $30 shipped and go up in model and price (2,3,4, and 5000) for ventilation, detachable cable, and other features.  They are higher in price, but have better ear tips, cables, build quality, etc.  Overall, they are an upgrade to the HD1S, indeed.  Check out the E1000 and E2000 (vented with stock ear hooks) here:

https://audio46.com/final-audio-e1000-review/

https://www.amazon.com/Final-Audio-...ocphy=9027589&hvtargid=pla-524348677085&psc=1


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

TreehornJackie said:


> Hi,
> I am mainly listening to music while working or learning etc. Mostly ambient, chillout, low-fi etc..
> I would not like something with too much emphasis on the highs (like ZS6 for example).
> I have already some decent earphones for the other purposes but now I am looking strictly for something to keep me focused on what I am doing and isolating the exterior sound as much as possible.
> ...



I'm thinking CCA C10, they have a nicely wide soundstage, good bass and are very smooth sounding (including the treble). Or the KZ AS10, which are warmer sounding (stronger mids), more rolled off treble, less bass, but very tight and well defined. The AS10 probably isolates slightly better than the C10.

I love the ZS7, but they are often a bit too exciting sounding for relaxed music with lots of atmosphere.

The C16 sounds great, very detailed, but they sound pretty bright.


----------



## voicemaster

I used my zs7 on a 12 hours flight and it provided me with enough isolation from engine noise. With music playing, I can hardly hear anything other than the music I am listening to and with moderate volume also.


----------



## Sylmar (Mar 2, 2019)

All these KZ's I bought and still using the ED8 the most by far. 
I wonder if KZ really stopped making DD IEMs..


----------



## BubbaJay

Haven't been in the IEM thread in years since I'm a headphone guy but hearing about these KZ IEMs I went ahead and spent $40 something on the ZSR and a new cable.  I started with IEMs years ago and this little cheap sucker sounds really good for under $30.  I just started listening to it so I'll give impressions later but I'm going to go buy one of there top models just because I like this one so much.


----------



## purplesun

TreehornJackie said:


> I am currently searching for a pair of iems with very good isolation.
> Can anyone please point me to a model(s) with the best sound isolation (does not necessary need to be KZ though).


Put Comply ear foam tips (or their knockoffs) with a tight fit onto any IEM.


----------



## randomnin

HungryPanda said:


> ZS4


I concur, ZS4 is the isolation, style (sanded to be completely matte plain black, with the stock thin black cable and black triple flange tips) and, arguably, sound (only equalized, though. Biggest changes - 250-500Hz has to go down, 5-8kHz up. I personally like to add extra sub\low bass, too) budget king.


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> All these KZ's I bought and still using the ED8 the most by far.
> I wonder if KZ really stopped making DD IEMs..



Wow that’s an oldie!


----------



## purplesun (Mar 3, 2019)

Conclusion to my niche requirement for a few cheap(ish) IEMs to use on air flights to cut out aircraft pressure and enjoy some music.

1. KZ AS06: Great for non-acoustic music, A gymnastic wonder in the bass/mid regions. But a bit too trebly for me for long-term use. This stays at home.
2. CCA C16: Head & shoulder above the IEMs here in SQ. But, at $90, not something I would want to step on or lose every other flight. Goes into cabin bag for hotel use.
3. KZ ZSN: Decent sound, but treble too hot for me. Gave away to friend's kid who listens to US/UK/K pop.
4. CCA C10: Jack of all trades, master of none. Does everything the other IEMs do here, but to a lesser degree. Fine all-rounder for the price. Into laptop bag as backup IEM.
5. KZ AS10: Has good bass presence, without too much slam. Mid warmth. Laid back treble. Nothing sharp or spiky, musically, that will wake me up from sleep. Won't handle all genres of music, but has just enough musicality (like a good tube amp) to keep me entertained. Into laptop bag as main IEM.

All in my humble listening opinion, of course. BTW, the venerable KZ ATR will be my other laptop backup IEM.

Wrote a bit about C10/C16 earlier:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-c16-impressions-thread.900149/page-4#post-14808826
Wrote a bit about AS06/AS10 earlier:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2812#post-14802827


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Gazd said:


> Just ordered my ZS7 from AK audio. Can't wait!


Gee, you couldn't even wait for a sale?


----------



## Gazd

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Gee, you couldn't even wait for a sale?


Nope!


----------



## Sylmar (Mar 2, 2019)

Slater said:


> Wow that’s an oldie!


I should start a museum.


----------



## DocHoliday

Sylmar said:


> All these KZ's I bought and still using the ED8 the most by far.
> I wonder if KZ really stopped making DD IEMs..



Thanks for reminding me about the ED8. I've had them in for several hours now and they are a ton of fun. The newer models improve dynamics considerably but the ED8 bass is warm & deep while the vocals are warm and smooth.




 


Old Skool can still be entertaining in 2019!


----------



## ketanbony

Slater said:


> The button doesn’t support music control functionality (ie skip forwards/back). The button is play, pause, call control, power, and pairing. That’s it.



I bought another pair of BT20(this time 0.75 mm version) last month and was pleasantly surprised to find out that double click on the button of either side skips to the next song.


----------



## Sylmar

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for reminding me about the ED8. I've had them in for several hours now and they are a ton of fun. The newer models improve dynamics considerably but the ED8 bass is warm & deep while the vocals are warm and smooth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You're welcome. I totally agree. Although I can appreciate the newer models and can accept that they are technically superior they don't give me that smoothness, warmth and massive soundstage the ED8 can give me at the moment. It's at times almost like wearing my fathers overears again when I was a kid and started enjoying music. Such joy. 

Still, I'm very interested where KZ will go as company. Lot of competition and I just don't hope that it will be a race to cram as much drivers in IEM's as possible. That's not where I get my enjoyment from.


----------



## Gazd

Oh guys how does the ZS7 compare to the As6 and the As10?


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for reminding me about the ED8. I've had them in for several hours now and they are a ton of fun. The newer models improve dynamics considerably but the ED8 bass is warm & deep while the vocals are warm and smooth.





Sylmar said:


> Although I can appreciate the newer models and can accept that they are technically superior they don't give me that smoothness, warmth and massive soundstage the ED8 can give me at the moment. It's at times almost like wearing my fathers overears again when I was a kid and started enjoying music. Such joy.



Now I feel like I missed out.  When the ED8 was available I had never even tried an IEM.  I wonder if, in my list of IEMs, I have one that actually sounds similar.  I will never know...


----------



## rambomhtri

I thought foam ear tips isolated less than silicone ear tips, besides silicone ear tips last pretty much forever while foam ear tips I've read only last a few weeks/months.


----------



## Sylmar (Mar 3, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Now I feel like I missed out.  When the ED8 was available I had never even tried an IEM.  I wonder if, in my list of IEMs, I have one that actually sounds similar.  I will never know...



Well, they are by no means giant killers by a long shot but they are genuinely nice when you like "analogue" sounding warm IEM's with a big soundstage. I'm pretty sure there may be alternatives but mainly I hope that KZ won't forget about this sound signature when producing new IEM's. A little variety for every taste would be nice.


----------



## mbwilson111

Sylmar said:


> Well, they are by no means giant killers by a long shot but they are genuinely nice when you like "analogue" sounding warm IEM's with a big soundstage. I'm pretty sure there may be alternatives but mainly I hope that KZ won't forget about this sound signature when producing new IEM's. A little variety for every taste would be nice.



Actually I think I get that with some of my earbuds.


----------



## gbrgbr

I have both para-A and para-B KZ Type-C DACs.
Is there any way I could use those with a IEM that uses a MMCX connector (e.g. ****) ? Is there anything like a two-pin to MMCX adapter?

btw : the ZSN connector is now being referred to as para-C  :
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...d-Cable-0-75mm-2-Pin/2663005_32979839886.html
  (only 3.25 for a rose gold cable)

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Wire-for-KZ-ZSN-ZST/2663005_32976317973.html


----------



## Slater (Mar 3, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> I thought foam ear tips isolated less than silicone ear tips, besides silicone ear tips last pretty much forever while foam ear tips I've read only last a few weeks/months.



Foam isolates more. That’s why they make earplugs out of foam.

And yes, foam tips (when used daily) usually only last a few months tops before they’re worn out.

Well, I guess technically you could use them longer than that. There are people who have keep headphone pads on long after they’re worn out. They look like they found them in a refuse bin haha


----------



## Sylmar

mbwilson111 said:


> Actually I think I get that with some of my earbuds.



Very well possible. Unfortunately I have the problem with earbuds that they never ever can be kept in my ears. Probably got weird ones.


----------



## rambomhtri

Oh, that's interesting. I think I read somewhere that people used foam tips because they were more comfortable than silicone tips since they shape your ear canal better. So I though you sacrificed isolation and durability for comfort. Now I guess you sacrifice durability for comfort and isolation. Then, knowing you can buy for $5 foam tips for years or decades... why would someone then prefer silicone over foam?
I've never used foam tips, by the way, once I receive my ZS7 I will know how foam feels.


----------



## Slater (Mar 3, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> ...why would someone then prefer silicone over foam?



Different people like different things. Some people like foam more. Some people have unique ear canals and can only wear foam tips.

I personally prefer silicone over foam  because:

1. Silicone is faster and easier to put in and take out.
2. Silicone is more hygienic, doesn’t collect ear gunk which can possibly cause ear infections, and it can be cleaned with alcohol at any time with no degradation of the material.
3. Silicone is 100% bio-compatible
4. Silicone doesn’t absorb sweat
5. Silicone doesn’t *reduce* *treble* like foam tips do.
6. There’s hundreds of silicone ear tip designs, allowing you to easily tip roll and change the sound. There’s only a handful of different foam tip designs for tip rolling.
7. I don’t like the feeling of foam tips in my ears. The feeling of additional pressure once the foam expands is not as comfortable or enjoyable to me.

If I really want maximum isolation, I just use silicone/foam hybrid tips, which are the best of both worlds.

You do know the ZS7 doesn’t come with foam tips, right? Did you order them separately or something?


----------



## Slater

In case anyone has been thinking about getting the KZ lightning silver upgrade cable for their iPhone, it’s available right now for $9.29 from CCAs store on Aliexpress.

This is 25-30% cheaper than it has been in the past (it’s usually $13-$15, even during sales).

They also have it in A, B, and C pins now (C being for ZSN).


----------



## Luxed

rambomhtri said:


> Oh, that's interesting. I think I read somewhere that people used foam tips because they were more comfortable than silicone tips since they shape your ear canal better. So I though you sacrificed isolation and durability for comfort. Now I guess you sacrifice durability for comfort and isolation. Then, knowing you can buy for $5 foam tips for years or decades... why would someone then prefer silicone over foam?
> I've never used foam tips, by the way, once I receive my ZS7 I will know how foam feels.


I personally prefer foam over silicone because silicone causes a vacuum effect in my ears and I can't stand it.
Altough as Slater said, foam may have more disadvantages than silicone.


----------



## phower

It is tax filing season up here in Canada. I thought it might be appropriate to keep tab on audiophile expenses. Unfortunately, we can't deduct them.
I am curious how much money all of you have spent on KZ? 

I will go first. My total amount is only $60 before I came to my senses.


----------



## mbwilson111

rambomhtri said:


> why would someone then prefer silicone over foam?



For me, I can't stand the feel of foam tips in my ears or in my hand.  Don't like touching them.  Oddly though I do use foam earplugs sometimes... somehow that foam has a nicer feel and is easier to put into the ear. (for me).  Also there is the grossness factor.  Silicone can be washed and disinfected.... foam... well.... just yuck.

I am very happy with the sound I get using properly fitting silicone tips and they are not uncomfortable at all to me.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Gazd said:


> Oh guys how does the ZS7 compare to the As6 and the As10?



Versus the AS10: The ZS7 has stronger, deeper bass with more slam, the ZS7 has better instrument separation and a larger more holophonic soundstage. The ZS7 has brighter, more sparkly highs. Treble is smoother. Good for electronic music and percussion.

The AS10 has stronger mids, it sounds warmer, bass is tighter with a nice texture, treble is more rolled off. Isolation is better. The earphones are lighter and larger, but less deep. It sounds more serious and less exciting, good for acoustic instruments and more relaxed sounding music.


----------



## B9Scrambler

phower said:


> It is tax filing season up here in Canada. I thought it might be appropriate to keep tab on audiophile expenses. Unfortunately, we can't deduct them.
> I am curious how much money all of you have spent on KZ?
> 
> I will go first. My total amount is only $60 before I came to my senses.



221.14 CAD = ZS7, ZS10, ZSA, ED15, ZS6, ED9, ZSE, ZS3E, ZSE Special Edition, ED7.


----------



## rambomhtri

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I indeed ordered foam tips separately from KZ as well, that pack that comes with 3 pairs of foam tips. I wanna try them.
Do really foam tips get dirty and can't be cleaned correctly?
Do they smell bad after some use?

That does not seem appealing. But again, I've read dozens of times how "foam tips is really what these IEM's need to sound good".


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Huh, I just noticed one of the connectors of my ZS7 is wobbly to all sides, with the cable (tightly) connected. Anyone else have this problem? I wonder what happened.


----------



## rambomhtri

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Huh, I just noticed one of the connectors of my ZS7 is wobbly to all sides, with the cable (tightly) connected. Anyone else have this problem? I wonder what happened.


Video showing the differences?
I will receive them this week and I want to know if that happens to mine as well.


----------



## Slater (Mar 3, 2019)

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Huh, I just noticed one of the connectors of my ZS7 is wobbly to all sides, with the cable (tightly) connected. Anyone else have this problem? I wonder what happened.



That happens from time to time on some KZ 2-pin models. It is no cause for concern.

All KZ 2-pin models have molded notches that hold the female sockets in place. The IEM shell has notches that mechanically lock into notches in the 2-pin socket like a key. So there is absolutely no risk of the jack falling in or out. The slight jack wiggle doesn’t hurt anything. It is strictly a cosmetic or perfectionist type thing.

Some members have added a bit of glue to the 2-pin female sockets to eliminate the wiggling. It makes them sleep a little better at night, but again is technically unnecessary.

Luckily it’s easy to do to models with removable backs such as the ZS6 or ZS7. If you do choose to do it, don’t use superglue. Take the back off and use a minimal amount of 2-part epoxy or glue like E8000. Don’t use too much or it could ooze out and obstruct the socket, or goop onto the pins possibly screwing up their ability to make proper contact.

Other disadvantages of adding your own glue is it making it harder to work on the jack if you ever needed to (like to turn it around or resolder it if it’s out of phase). In addition, the glue will make the rear cover much harder to remove in the future.

I personally leave my loose ones alone. It’s very minimal wiggle, and literally doesn’t hurt anything. Yet trying to eliminate the wiggle can do more harm than good.



rambomhtri said:


> Video showing the differences?
> I will receive them this week and I want to know if that happens to mine as well.



No video needed friend. It’s just like if there’s an electrical socket in your wall that’s a little bit loose when you go to plug in a lamp or vacuum cleaner. The electrical socket still works perfectly and isn’t in any danger of falling out of the wall. It just has a mm of wiggle that’s all.

Don’t stress about stuff that may never happen friend. I don’t worry about being struck by lightning, or piano falling out of a window and landing on my head when I walk down the street, because those things may never happen. The loose sockets affect a small % of KZs, and even then it is no problem and hurts absolutely nothing. Too much stress and anxiety is bad for your health.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> That happens from time to time on some KZ 2-pin models. It is no cause for concern.
> 
> All KZ 2-pin models have molded notches that hold the female sockets in place. The IEM shell has notches that mechanically lock into notches in the 2-pin socket like a key. So there is absolutely no risk of the jack falling in or out. The slight jack wiggle doesn’t hurt anything. It is strictly a cosmetic or perfectionist type thing.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed information! That is good to know. I guess they didn't glue it very well, I though something might have broken off inside.Maybe hot-glue could work, as it is relatively easy to remove.


----------



## Slater (Mar 3, 2019)

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Thanks for the detailed information! That is good to know. I guess they didn't glue it very well, I though something might have broken off inside.Maybe hot-glue could work, as it is relatively easy to remove.



No problem friend, glad to help.

As far as your comment about them not gluing it well, they usually don’t glue them at all. At least not on the models with removable backs.

I think the few that are glued around the socket, is simply extra glue that oozed out when they glued the 2 halves of the shells together.

My ZSR, for example, has some glue on the 2-pin sockets. But I think it originally just came from the seams of the shells. They run a bead of glue around the seam, press the shell together, and some glue works it’s way to the socket.

In any case, glue, no glue; not a problem either way 

_BTW, here’s a guy that glued his and some glue went into the pins. He also used super glue (a big no no). Luckily he was able to clean the glue out of the pins, but that’s exactly why I leave mine alone. Just more chances to screw something up. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
_
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2065#post-14183766


----------



## jibberish

I received a pair of the ED9 yesterday, and have been listening to them over the weekend.  My initial impression out of the box was poor, both in terms of comfort and sound, but after putting on the balanced nozzles and some Auvio tips, I'm enjoying them plenty. With the balanced nozzles they are still bassy and warm, but even at that, the mids are not excessively recessed, and there's a nice bit of sparkle without being harsh in the treble.  Sounding really good with classic rock, drums and bass have nice authority.

Only issue I have with the ED9 is the cable, seems like it's sturdy, but it's also stiff and pretty microphonic. I was a bit disappointed with the cable's noise as I was shoveling snow wearing them today.

On the whole though, it's a fun, cheap little IEM (got it for $10).


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Different people like different things. Some people like foam more. Some people have unique ear canals and can only wear foam tips.
> 
> I personally prefer silicone over foam  because:
> 
> ...


Which silicone tips you would recommend me to use on the ZS7? I'm thinking about the spinfit


----------



## Slater (Mar 3, 2019)

Gazd said:


> Which silicone tips you would recommend me to use on the ZS7? I'm thinking about the spinfit



On the ZS7, I prefer Auvio wide bores.

But you should always start with the included tips. That’s what the manufacturer designed the gear to pair with.

I personally only use Spinfits as a last resort, when no other tip will provide a good fit. Usually these are cases where an IEMs nozzle is very short, and I can’t get a good fit because of that. The solution is to use a longer tip, like triple flange, double flange, or Spinfits.

Other than that case, I don’t like Spinfits because I don’t particularly like how they change the sound. Plus I think they’re overpriced.

But that’s just me. There are people that swear by them.

Also keep in mind that different tips will fit different people differently (and affect the sound differently). This is why you constantly hear people saying to tip roll. The only way to know which tip fits and sounds best on a particular IEM is to try a bunch of them.

There’s no 1 universal “best” tip. I have some IEMs that Rock Zircon tips sound best on, some that Auvios sound best on, a lot that Starlines sound best on, some that Sony Hybrids sound best on, etc. It depends on numerous factors.


----------



## 1clearhead

Gazd said:


> Which silicone tips you would recommend me to use on the ZS7? I'm thinking about the spinfit


I'm going to try the Auvio silicone ear tips once I get home from work.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> On the ZS7, I prefer Auvio wide bores.
> 
> But you should always start with the included tips. That’s what the manufacturer designed the gear to pair with.
> 
> ...


The problem is I don't know where to buy the auvio tips in Vietnam


----------



## Slater

Gazd said:


> The problem is I don't know where to buy the auvio tips in Vietnam



JVC Spiral dot tips are very similar. Even better according to most reports. They’re not cheap, but they have the widest variety of sizes of pretty much any tip. In addition to the nornal S/M/L sizes, they have in between sizes, like a ‘SM’ that is bigger than a S but smaller than a M. That allows you to get an even more customized fit.

So maybe see if you can get Spiral Dots.

Also, you can always work with a US-based HeadFi member to get Auvios. I’ve personally helped members in the UK and even Estonia get some Auvios, because they were unable to get them otherwise.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 3, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> Yes, I indeed ordered foam tips separately from KZ as well, that pack that comes with 3 pairs of foam tips. I wanna try them.
> Do really foam tips get dirty and can't be cleaned correctly?
> Do they smell bad after some use?
> 
> That does not seem appealing. But again, I've read dozens of times how "foam tips is really what these IEM's need to sound good".



The foam tips kz sells are the same as the rest of the foam tips sold on aliexpress. I've been able to clean them with no problem using warm to hot water and mild dish soap like dawn.

Place them on a solid cylinder, I use a pin punch. Run them under the faucet, use the soap to help carry away the grease/wax/dirt, squeezing them to flush the contaminates out. Squeeze the water out over the sink, then squeeze a few times into a dry towel and let air dry overnight.

They aren't the same foam that comply uses that breaks down much faster. Just do not use a solvent on them. If there is heavy wax build up a little hydrogen peroxide from the drug store in a cap or small dish will melt it away. Some have used that with comply foam to extend the use, since they are more expensive. Aliexpress foams are so much cheaper though, that it isn't really worth the effort.



I can't stand the suction effect from silicone tips and use foams. Other members here say the Aliexpress foams don't reduce treble as much as comply does. The surface appears less porous and probably doesn't absorb as much sonically.


----------



## Gazd (Mar 3, 2019)

Slater said:


> JVC Spiral dot tips are very similar. Even better according to most reports. They’re not cheap, but they have the widest variety of sizes of pretty much any tip. In addition to the nornal S/M/L sizes, they have in between sizes, like a ‘SM’ that is bigger than a S but smaller than a M. That allows you to get an even more customized fit.
> 
> So maybe see if you can get Spiral Dots.
> 
> Also, you can always work with a US-based HeadFi member to get Auvios. I’ve personally helped members in the UK and even Estonia get some Auvios, because they were unable to get them otherwise.


Slater you meant this?


----------



## purplesun (Mar 3, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Run them under the faucet, use the soap to help carry away the grease/wax/dirt, squeezing them to flush the contaminates out. Squeeze the water out over the sink, then squeeze a few times into a dry towel and let air dry overnight. Aliexpress foams are so much cheaper though, that it isn't really worth the effort..


I buy the lighter colored, non-Comply,  foam tips, so that I can see when I need to change (or wash them) them. The biggest hassle with them is getting the perfect initial sizing. I bought a bunch of sizes at the beginning to test them. Not too tight, until it's uncomfortable and becomes a hassle inserting (I don't need to "pinch" before inserting mine). And not too loose, until it loses isolation or gets dislodged easily. Once that's done, it's 10 pairs of the same size for less than 20 dollar, which should be enough for several months. It's also good have have a vernier caliper to measure the IEM tip outer diameter to get the appropriate foam tip internal diameter.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> JVC Spiral dot tips are very similar. Even better according to most reports. They’re not cheap, but they have the widest variety of sizes of pretty much any tip. In addition to the nornal S/M/L sizes, they have in between sizes, like a ‘SM’ that is bigger than a S but smaller than a M. That allows you to get an even more customized fit.
> 
> So maybe see if you can get Spiral Dots.
> 
> Also, you can always work with a US-based HeadFi member to get Auvios. I’ve personally helped members in the UK and even Estonia get some Auvios, because they were unable to get them otherwise.


What about the acostune and the final audio type E both have the same price as the Jvc Spiral


----------



## Tooros

Spiral dot ML is what I use on everything I can. ML fits me perfectly and the wide bore makes everything better to me. I truly think spin-fits are the emperor’s new clothes. They just turn everything I’ve ever tried them on into a treble filled mess.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 4, 2019)

phower said:


> It is tax filing season up here in Canada. I thought it might be appropriate to keep tab on audiophile expenses. Unfortunately, we can't deduct them.
> I am curious how much money all of you have spent on KZ?
> 
> I will go first. My total amount is only $60 before I came to my senses.


Came to your senses?? I say you didn't lose your senses enough. I got my KZ AS10's for the amount of money you spent on KZ's ($60). I won't mention the other ten KZ models I have... cause they were "perhaps" a waste of money except for KZ ZSN!


----------



## purplesun (Mar 4, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Came to your senses?? I say you didn't lose your senses enough. I got my KZ AS10's for the amount of money you spent on KZ's ($60). I won't mention the other ten KZ models I have... cause they were "perhaps" a waste of money except for KZ ZSN!


What's the big deal? I came to my senses after I ordered KZ ZSN. Then again, after I ordered KZ AS10, Then after ordering CCA C10 and CCA C16.
I don't have a problem coming to my senses. I do it all the time.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 4, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Now I feel like I missed out.  When the ED8 was available I had never even tried an IEM.  I wonder if, in my list of IEMs, I have one that actually sounds similar.  I will never know...



Off the top of my head I'll say it's the ATR with an extra helping of warmth and depth but I need to compare to confirm so give me a few days and I'll report back.

*** EDIT ***

Just tested both (ATR & ED8) with the song in my original post and I think I was correct. The ED8 has much better impact in the low end. Just keep in mind how much the increased sub-bass extension can effect the midrange delivery. The ED8 is like the ATR with melted butter all over it. Very smooth (a little less analytical in comparison). I like both IEMs a great deal but the ED8 is difficult to disengage from. You know, when you have things to do but you find yourself saying "just five more minutes....just five more" because you're just lost in what you're listening to. That's the ED8 in a nutshell; no spikes/dips and very entertaining. I'll test the ED8 against the ED3 "Acme" and especially the EDR1 since the EDR1 has excellent low end extension as well to see if there are any similarities and I'll report back.

I'll use the same track so you'll have the same point of reference.


----------



## mbwilson111

DocHoliday said:


> Off the top of my head I'll say it's the ATR with an extra helping of warmth and depth but I need to compare to confirm so give me a few days and I'll report back.



I do have the ATR


----------



## Slater

Gazd said:


> What about the acostune and the final audio type E both have the same price as the Jvc Spiral



Never tried them friend.

You can always just try the stock tips and see if you like them. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about buying anything.

The stock tips (KZ Starline) are great tips, and they’re basically my preferred tip on most IEMs.

And if you want to try wide bore tips, Aliexpress has generic wide bore tips for very cheap.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Never tried them friend.
> 
> You can always just try the stock tips and see if you like them. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about buying anything.
> 
> ...


Ok will do


----------



## DynamicEars

Gazd said:


> What about the acostune and the final audio type E both have the same price as the Jvc Spiral





Slater said:


> Never tried them friend.
> 
> You can always just try the stock tips and see if you like them. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about buying anything.
> 
> ...





Gazd said:


> Ok will do




I have all of them currently.

Final Audio Type E is firm dome shaped tips, its really similar to Sony MH755 tips, but for LL size  is deeper than MH L size, which is nice, the silicone a bit thick, high quality, Japan imported, small bore, so can increase bass.
JVC spiral dots is one of my favorite, thick rubber with wide bore, for more clarity can be used to tamed sibilances and open mid, reduce mid bass bleed. also japan imported
Acoustune AET07 is medium bore, more soft than final audio, for clear mid, almost same with spiral dots, but i think spiral dots is better
Acoustune AET08 is small bore, for improve bass.

Normally I use spiral dots on my iems, but not good with Kanas Pro since made bass  reduced and high mids become too clear, prone to shouty high mids area (2.5-3 khz)

Sorry again, what is your iem?


----------



## Gazd

DynamicEars said:


> I have all of them currently.
> 
> Final Audio Type E is firm dome shaped tips, its really similar to Sony MH755 tips, but for LL size  is deeper than MH L size, which is nice, the silicone a bit thick, high quality, Japan imported, small bore, so can increase bass.
> JVC spiral dots is one of my favorite, thick rubber with wide bore, for more clarity can be used to tamed sibilances and open mid, reduce mid bass bleed. also japan imported
> ...


The ZS7


----------



## DynamicEars

Gazd said:


> The ZS7



you can use the default starlines tips first, and i suggets if default starlines not good enough for you then you can go with spiral dots since ZS7 got plenty of bass, they will make mids more clear and add some soundstage (not sure if its true, but maybe i feel differences a bit). I dont have ZS7 but i think it will suits your need.


----------



## Gazd

DynamicEars said:


> you can use the default starlines tips first, and i suggets if default starlines not good enough for you then you can go with spiral dots since ZS7 got plenty of bass, they will make mids more clear and add some soundstage (not sure if its true, but maybe i feel differences a bit). I dont have ZS7 but i think it will suits your need.


Thank I will try


----------



## darmanastartes

Gazd said:


> What about the acostune and the final audio type E both have the same price as the Jvc Spiral


Those Final E tips do not appear to have been cleaned before that picture was taken


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> I have all of them currently.
> 
> Final Audio Type E is firm dome shaped tips, its really similar to Sony MH755 tips, but for LL size  is deeper than MH L size, which is nice, the silicone a bit thick, high quality, Japan imported, small bore, so can increase bass.
> JVC spiral dots is one of my favorite, thick rubber with wide bore, for more clarity can be used to tamed sibilances and open mid, reduce mid bass bleed. also japan imported
> ...



There’s also this thread (one of many), which is dedicated to nothing but tips:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/


----------



## Gazd

P


darmanastartes said:


> Those Final E tips do not appear to have been cleaned before that picture was taken


Ah it is the shop not me haha


----------



## rambomhtri (Mar 4, 2019)

OK, so I've finally received my KZ ZS7. I think I will do a large review, but here are some quick points I want to share (notice this is the first time I have owned an "IEM" and the first time I've used headphones that go with the cable behind the ears):

1. The build quality is really impressive, I would say almost unbeatable. It's really mind blowing how good these IEM look in real life, so elegant and professional.

2. The cable: fantastic. I love that it's a 90º jack plug (it's way more convenient). The split piece looks solid and sturdy (some say it's weak, I don't know why), the cable itself is very flexible and nice. The famous memory cable end, I love it, I really love it, it makes the IEM to stay in place even more, I don't understand why I've read so many reviews that say "please buy a good cable". So comfortable and customizable, it adapts perfectly to your ear and the sensation is amazing. The cable noises are nonexistent, and you can move your head all around, even violently, and won't hear a single cable sound. That is amazing. The only thing I don't like about the cable is that, after the split piece, the cable section between that piece and the headphone is not covered or coated with a sleeve, it's simply 2 twisted cables. I've noticed you can untwist them really easily, and I'm worried that overtime, accidentally, you may unconsciously untwist the cable slowly, day by day. I think they should have put a sleeve to prevent that.

3. The 2 pin connector plugs in tightly but nicely, just as I would want. It fits perfectly, doesn't move around or anything, doesn't wabble at all, it's solidly and tightly plugged in. It's a little hard to unplug it, but with a little shake you can unplug it without damaging anything.

4. The silicone tips are really good, may be the best silicone tips I've tried so far, although not really that different from any other silicone tips. They work and they are comfortable. I say they are the best so far because the silicone feels and looks a little better than others I have, but really not that important. I will try foam tips though.

5. Sound. It's quite plain, which I love, quite balanced but clearly a little bit to the bass/low frequencies spectrum. I can't compare them with any IEM's of the same price/quality because I don't own any, so I can't really tell how good they are against its competitors/rivals. I can tell they are VERY loud, easily driven by any device out there: smartphones, DAP's of course... that's really nice because sometimes when travelling you have to set the volume to maximum to correctly listen to music in loud scenarios.

6. They feel really light and comfortable, not heavy at all, stay in place, doesn't matter how hard you move around.

To sum up: I love them, I could easily go full hype, but I don't want to because I don't have the knowledge and I'm not experienced at all, I should first try many IEM's face to face from all price ranges to make a clear statement.


----------



## crabdog

Guys, I've just started another giveaway. Up for grabs this time is a KZ ZSN (black). 

To enter you can go to either my website or Facebook group (links in sig). Good luck!


----------



## Slater (Mar 4, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> OK, so I've finally receive my KZ ZS7. I think I will do a large review, but here are some quick points I want to share (notice this is the first time I have owned an "IEM" and the first time I've used headphones that go with the cable behind the ears):
> 
> 1. The build quality is really awesome, I would say almost unbeatable. It's really mind blowing how good these IEM look in real life, so elegant and professional.
> 
> ...



Glad you like them. Now you see why we were saying to just wait until they came. All the worrying was for nothing.

As far as the cable twist, they’ve been twisting cables together like that for 100 years or longer. The twisted part of the cable will be fine.

Also, you don’t need to unplug the 2-pin connections a lot. You want the plug to be tight. Just leave them plugged in all the time and you’ll be fine. The only time I unplug my 2-pin connections is if I am changing out the cable.

My 2 pieces of advice at this point would be to

1. Check the phase to make sure there’re in phase. This will ensure that they’re plugged in properly, and that there’s not a QC wiring defect. There’s a link in my signature.

2. Store them in a case when not in use. It will keep them protected, clean, and organized. If you’re careful taking them in and out of the case, it will also allow the memory wires to stay perfectly in your ear’s shape (so you won’t have to reshape them every time). It will also help reduce the chances of you dropping them on a hard surface, which could permanently damage 1 or more of the internal drivers.

You’ll need one of the more sizable cases, to account for the memory wires staying in their pre-formed shape. These 3 cases are perfect for the job, and inexpensive.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/WfpJpZW

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bqEOObas

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ckcRxBkG


----------



## rambomhtri

Slater said:


> Glad you like them. Now you see why we were saying to just wait until they came. All the worrying was for nothing.
> 
> As far as the cable twist, they’ve been twisting cables together like that for 100 years or longer. The twisted part of the cable will be fine.
> 
> ...


Yes, thank you.
I don't know about the twisted cable, I think it could happen randomly, or simply the user noodling around. Just like headphone cables getting so tangled mysteriously and randomly inside a pocket. ItsI just a thought though.

About the pin connectors, yeah, I don't plug and unplug them a lot, I wanted to say that it fits nicely. I've bought a Bluetooth cable as well, so I will have to use the connector.

Yes, I know the connectors have a certain position. They are not inverted, they are right. About the cases... I thought about them. I've been using for quite some years a small cloth/fabric sack/bag to store them in my pocket. I actually prefer the quality and safety of a hard case, but since I commute all day and I always store my headphones in my pocket, I might don't like to have another bulk in my pocket, enough with the smartphone and the wallet. Do you think it's OK to use a small cloth sack or you would sacrifice another bulk to have a nice hard case?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 4, 2019)

Why all the talk about the KZ ED8? It's not available anymore and you're just teasing the rest of us.  What about the KZ ED7?

I can't find the original tips for my ED16's and realized the Spinfits make them sound a bit grainy. They sound great with some other tips I have but can't get a good seal. I guess they're staying in the closet.

The ZS4 are the worst fitting KZ's in their line. The ZS3's are the best fitting. What the hell did they do wrong?! The ZS4 sound GREAT! But the fit... another KZ staying in the closet. I do love the equalized sound where every album has the same sound quality.

Reminder to self: Always use stock cables and tips. It's good enough.


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 4, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why all the talk about the KZ ED8?



It's a classic KZ.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why all the talk about the KZ ED8?



It's the KZ thread.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> It's not available anymore and you're just teasing the rest of us. wink



There is always the possibility of "trading".
It wasn't long ago that badreligionpunk  offered up something that everyone thought was unobtainable.
The Havi B3 Pro 1. He also may have offered up his ED8 a few weeks ago.......don't remember specifically, though. 



 



 

The glass should always remain half full because opportunities arise when you least expect them.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yea I had the ED8 for sale. Sounds great, but never worked out for me. Too heavy and for some strange reason didn't fit me very well. When I would turn my head the iems would move in such a way that they would block the sound coming out. Have no idea what is going on but had the exact same problem with the Shozy Zero IEM. Had to sell that one too despite that thing sounding phenomenal. 

BTW after about 10 different people wanting to buy the HAVI B3 pro 1, I still have them. LOL. Getting rid of that thing has been a nightmare. I have been hesitant but looks like I may have to go to Ebay and deal with all that crap to sell them. UGH!


----------



## Slater

rambomhtri said:


> Yes, thank you.
> I don't know about the twisted cable, I think it could happen randomly, or simply the user noodling around. Just like headphone cables getting so tangled mysteriously and randomly inside a pocket. ItsI just a thought though.
> 
> About the pin connectors, yeah, I don't plug and unplug them a lot, I wanted to say that it fits nicely. I've bought a Bluetooth cable as well, so I will have to use the connector.
> ...



I like to keep my stuff in mint condition, so I deal with the extra bulk of a proper carry case. I’m sure a cloth one would be fine. It is definitely better than nothing at all,  but technically it doesn’t provide much protection. It will help keep them cleaner and and cut down on the dust and lint.

Be aware that the shells will  be more likely to scratch one another, and in time will rub off the colored anodized finish on the edges. This is true of anything though, from a wristwatch to gold rings. All metal scratches.

If it bothers you, you can touch it up with a Sharpie marker. If not, just leave it alone and don’t sweat it.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2291#post-14341754

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2466#post-14539722


----------



## BadReligionPunk

My biggest concern with hybrids is that one drop could screw em up so I always keep em in cases when not in my ears. Drop them when they are inside the case and you are going to be fine. No case, and its always a possibility that a BA gets jacked.

BTW there some really nice cases on AE. If you cant wait for the shipping. If not, I bought an 8 pack off amazon for $12. They are great and they all have clips attached so I can clip em to belt loops or my backpack or whatever.


----------



## eclein

gbrgbr said:


> I have both para-A and para-B KZ Type-C DACs.
> Is there any way I could use those with a IEM that uses a MMCX connector (e.g. ****) ? Is there anything like a two-pin to MMCX adapter?
> 
> *I saw these on Penon:*
> https://penonaudio.com/mmcx-to-2pin-iem-cable-adapter.html


----------



## gbrgbr

eclein said:


> *I saw these on Penon:*


Thanks. Those are 0.78mm. Why so costly ?!


----------



## Zerohour88

gbrgbr said:


> Thanks. Those are 0.78mm. Why so costly ?!



because people who switches around cable usually have cables worth more than triple that (0.78mm 2 pin is standard for CIEM, which is usually quite pricey).


----------



## robbomanx2

Hey all,

I have a very newbie question here haha  I Have a KZ ed-16 and I bought a KZ silver/copper upgrade cable, (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3...811.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.17084c4dCXwEsp)

I just got the cable in the mail but I'm wondering what is right and left for the earphones. Currently I have the red connector in the right IEM, and the blue in the left IEM. 
Is this the correct setup? Or should the colors be on the opposites sides? 

Thank you


----------



## HungryPanda

robbomanx2 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have a very newbie question here haha  I Have a KZ ed-16 and I bought a KZ silver/copper upgrade cable, (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3...811.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.17084c4dCXwEsp)
> 
> ...


 You are correct red usually goes to the right


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> My biggest concern with hybrids is that one drop could screw em up so I always keep em in cases when not in my ears. Drop them when they are inside the case and you are going to be fine. No case, and its always a possibility that a BA gets jacked.
> 
> BTW there some really nice cases on AE. If you cant wait for the shipping. If not, I bought an 8 pack off amazon for $12. They are great and they all have clips attached so I can clip em to belt loops or my backpack or whatever.



Got a link to the Amazon ones with belt clips?


----------



## Podster

robbomanx2 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have a very newbie question here haha  I Have a KZ ed-16 and I bought a KZ silver/copper upgrade cable, (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-3...811.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.17084c4dCXwEsp)
> 
> ...



The Panda is correct, but also make sure the housing is aligned correctly for polarity. You may need a magnifying glass but make sure the flat side lines up with the flat side and vice versa for the curved side


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> The Panda is correct, but also make sure the housing is aligned correctly for polarity. You may need a magnifying glass but make sure the flat side lines up with the flat side and vice versa for the curved side



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067



Way to precise and technical for the Pod, I'll just send you one of these LOL


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Way to precise and technical for the Pod, I'll just send you one of these LOL



Well, believe it or not, I used to post a crude hand drawn sketch like that. But people used to make fun of it so I went tech with the fancy photo version lol


----------



## Podster (Mar 5, 2019)

Slater said:


> Well, believe it or not, I used to post a crude hand drawn sketch like that. But people used to make fun of it so I went tech with the fancy photo version lol



IMHO I find peer pressure in the KZ thread kind of an oxymoron, now I might understand that from the pros over in the Noble thread LOL You know some brilliant ideas have come off bar napkins and especially after a few pints

So you know Pods made it clear he's not into the KZ teardrops with the circuit boards showing but that KZ AS06 in the black and silver may have to come to daddy What do you think of it, I know I could probably go back 25 pages and get some input but I'm way too lazy these days


----------



## serman005

I have never had this problem before, but I am having a difficult (!) time getting my ZS10 to stay in my ears. Does anyone else experience this with KZ products? What can I do to ameliorate it? Thanks!


----------



## neo_styles

serman005 said:


> I have never had this problem before, but I am having a difficult (!) time getting my ZS10 to stay in my ears. Does anyone else experience this with KZ products? What can I do to ameliorate it? Thanks!


ZS10's fit is known to be pretty detrimental. Big body, short nozzle...doesn't make for the most secure fit. I had some success using the memory wire to keep it in place for a while, but ultimately just canned them altogether. They weren't for me.


----------



## serman005

neo_styles said:


> ZS10's fit is known to be pretty detrimental. Big body, short nozzle...doesn't make for the most secure fit. I had some success using the memory wire to keep it in place for a while, but ultimately just canned them altogether. They weren't for me.


Got it--thanks very much.


----------



## HungryPanda

I ended up using a shiny rather sticky tip that I have no idea what they came with


----------



## BadReligionPunk

BadReligionPunk said:


> My biggest concern with hybrids is that one drop could screw em up so I always keep em in cases when not in my ears. Drop them when they are inside the case and you are going to be fine. No case, and its always a possibility that a BA gets jacked.
> 
> BTW there some really nice cases on AE. If you cant wait for the shipping. If not, I bought an 8 pack off amazon for $12. They are great and they all have clips attached so I can clip em to belt loops or my backpack or whatever.





Slater said:


> Got a link to the Amazon ones with belt clips?



Yea... Looks like I fibbed a bit. Memory gets fuzzy when you get to 43. Looking at my order history from Amazon these are the 2 I bought. 5 pack for $9 shipped. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y5TBNZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
These are great. A bit bigger then the others, and come with a cloth baggy. Remember to apply the $1 off coupon. 

Then I bought these. 6 pack for $10. A bit smaller then previous. Thought the colors would be good for some reason. Like oh! Blue case=Blue Bq3's, but that's dumb. What to do with Pink and Yellow? Buy 2 Auglamour F300's? 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D91M28Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I did not buy these but this is what my brain was thinking. 8 pack for $12. 
https://www.amazon.com/Meuxan-Carry...0MX6TSNVYPX&psc=1&refRID=Q7BWB1EG90MX6TSNVYPX


----------



## rambomhtri

Yesterday I was quite happy about the comfort of the KZ ZS7, although I reviewed them after just 10 minutes of use. Now, having used them at night and in during the day I am starting to feel pain in my ears because of the metal case, somehow it's hurting some areas I don't know why.


----------



## voicemaster

rambomhtri said:


> Yesterday I was quite happy about the comfort of the KZ ZS7, although I reviewed them after just 10 minutes of use. Now, having used them at night and in during the day I am starting to feel pain in my ears because of the metal case, somehow it's hurting some areas I don't know why.



Just do what I did. 
Sand the edge that touches your earlobe.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 6, 2019)

I ordered the ZS7 today. If I don't like it I'm quitting this group for making me want to spend so much money. #justwanttobeacceptedintothecoolcrowd


----------



## Slater

serman005 said:


> I have never had this problem before, but I am having a difficult (!) time getting my ZS10 to stay in my ears. Does anyone else experience this with KZ products? What can I do to ameliorate it? Thanks!



If you have access to a 3D printer, perhaps you could make a small adapter that snaps or glues onto the IEM nozzle and extends it out a bit?


----------



## Slater

rambomhtri said:


> Yesterday I was quite happy about the comfort of the KZ ZS7, although I reviewed them after just 10 minutes of use. Now, having used them at night and in during the day I am starting to feel pain in my ears because of the metal case, somehow it's hurting some areas I don't know why.



When you say “during the night”, do you mean you slept with them in?


----------



## Gazd

Slater will you make a legit ZS7 review?


----------



## Slater

Gazd said:


> Slater will you make a legit ZS7 review?



Yes, it’s on my to do list. I’m also planning some CCA reviews as soon as they arrive.

In the mean time, there’s a number of ZS7 reviews:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews#review-21447

https://www.ramenaudio.com/2019/02/kz-zs7-review-more-good-stuff-from-kz.html?m=1

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2725#post-14721332

@TechnoidFR posted a video review, but it’s in French and wasn’t sure if you spoke French or not.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Yes, it’s on my to do list. I’m also planning some CCA reviews as soon as they arrive.
> 
> In the mean time, there’s a number of ZS7 reviews:
> 
> ...


Well Google translate is my friend so....


----------



## Gazd

Gazd said:


> Well Google translate is my friend so....


And I want you to do it become I want to see yours opinion. You are the head-fier that I believe most


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I ordered the ZS7 today. If I don't like it I'm quitting this group for making me want to spend so much money. #justwanttobeacceptedintothecoolcrowd



I see you don't have the C16 yet...


----------



## rambomhtri

voicemaster said:


> Just do what I did.
> Sand the edge that touches your earlobe.


I'm not sure if that's the problem, how can I know before doing something that cannot be undone?
Don't you ZS7 owners have pain because of the "bulky" case. Or may be it's simply that I must get used to them?

For example, I remember the first week I used a on-ear headphones, even though they were "soft", after a few minutes or hours my ears would start to hurt like hell, and it was simply the little "pressure" a on-ear headphone does. I don't know if this is a similar situation.


----------



## rambomhtri

Guys, my left ZS7 is doing noises, like tiny "electric sparks" noises. My right one is not doing that. Just happened, or noticed, today. Have any of you experienced that?
I've just tried 2 pairs of headphones and they don't behave like that. It's just the KZ ZS7 left headphone.


----------



## serman005

rambomhtri said:


> Guys, my left ZS7 is doing noises, like tiny "electric sparks" noises. My right one is not doing that. Just happened, or noticed, today. Have any of you experienced that?
> I've just tried 2 pairs of headphones and they don't behave like that. It's just the KZ ZS7 left headphone.


I assume you've swapped out the cable and it didn't help?


----------



## rambomhtri

I don't have any extra cables, I'm using the original one.


----------



## serman005

rambomhtri said:


> I don't have any extra cables, I'm using the original one.


Swap out the right one for the left one and then listen. If the problem is gone, you have a cable issue. If it remains with the swapped cable, it may be a driver issue or something else internal in the housing.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

rambomhtri said:


> Guys, my left ZS7 is doing noises, like tiny "electric sparks" noises. My right one is not doing that. Just happened, or noticed, today. Have any of you experienced that?
> I've just tried 2 pairs of headphones and they don't behave like that. It's just the KZ ZS7 left headphone.



Is that while your player is charging? I notice when my audio player is charging and I touch the metal earphones, I get a buzzing sound, something to do with grounding. I only get that with certain USB cables.


----------



## rambomhtri

May be it could be a cable issue? Not making a great connection?

Definitely not charging issue because I've though about that, I was charging my phone indeed, I unplugged it and still happened. It's been about 1h since I don't hear the sparks. It's not a constant buzzing, but like tiny sounds of sparks, randomly sounding.


----------



## Slater

Gazd said:


> And I want you to do it become I want to see yours opinion. You are the head-fier that I believe most



Well, I’m flattered, but you should really take my opinion with the same grain of salt as the next person’s! Remember, we all have different ear shapes/sizes, different sound preferences. I may like something that someone else hates. Everyone’s opinion counts (unless they’re just a paid shill).

With that said, my opinion on the ZS7 doesn’t require waiting for my review. It’s an excellent IEM. It’s one of my top favorite IEMs, and is my daily driver.

Be aware that I don’t personally own other popular IEMs like ZS10, AS10, BA10, DM6, DMG, Kanas Pro, IT01S, C10, C16, etc. some of those could be better than the ZS7. Everything I own is always in my profile.

And you still would want to figure out if the signature of the ZS7 is what you like. For example, if you listen to classical music and want a pancake-flat neutral tune, that’s not the ZS7. But if you like a shallow U shape with a clean detailed sound (and great treble without being harsh or peaky like the ZS6), you’re going to have a hard time finding something better than the ZS7 at the asking price.


----------



## Sylmar

rambomhtri said:


> May be it could be a cable issue? Not making a great connection?
> 
> Definitely not charging issue because I've though about that, I was charging my phone indeed, I unplugged it and still happened. It's been about 1h since I don't hear the sparks. It's not a constant buzzing, but like tiny sounds of sparks, randomly sounding.



Did you try it with other sources?


----------



## Slater (Mar 6, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> I'm not sure if that's the problem, how can I know before doing something that cannot be undone?
> Don't you ZS7 owners have pain because of the "bulky" case. Or may be it's simply that I must get used to them?
> 
> For example, I remember the first week I used a on-ear headphones, even though they were "soft", after a few minutes or hours my ears would start to hurt like hell, and it was simply the little "pressure" a on-ear headphone does. I don't know if this is a similar situation.



It may be caused by the memory wires. Depending on how they are adjusted, they can 'push' the IEM against your ear slightly, which can lead to irritation.

How you can test this is to detach the cables, and just wear the IEM shells in your ears (with no cable at all). If you don't have any irritation, then that was the cause. If the irritation is still there, then it's something with the shell (like the corner voicemaster sanded down). 

You can maybe try different tips (specifically, longer tips like triple flange or SpinFits). This will move the shells away from your ears _just_ enough to where they hopefully wouldn’t rub.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Well, I’m flattered, but you should really take my opinion with the same grain of salt as the next person’s! Remember, we all have different ear shapes/sizes, different sound preferences. I may like something that someone else hates. Everyone’s opinion counts (unless they’re just a paid shill).
> 
> With that said, my opinion on the ZS7 doesn’t require waiting for my review. It’s an excellent IEM. It’s one of my top favorite IEMs, and is my daily driver.
> 
> ...


ZS7 or IT01 if could only choose one?


----------



## voicemaster

BadReligionPunk said:


> ZS7 or IT01 if could only choose one?


Zs7 for me and I have both. Not saying it01 bad or anything.


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 6, 2019)

Decided to break out the Fiio E12a (Mont Blanc Edition) and Sony NW-A45 to pair with the AS10 today. Such a great combo for the desk. Seems to smooth up the midrange and boost the impact a little bit, which is always a plus. Certainly not as energetic as something like the ZS7, but it's a nice all-day-comfort combo.


----------



## Slater (Mar 6, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> ZS7 or IT01 if could only choose one?



Well, the answer is ‘it depends’.

I like the bass and treble of the IT01, but the mids on the ZS7.

I like the build quality of the ZS7, but the comfort of the IT01.

The ZS7 is easier to drive from anything, whereas the IT01 benefits more from more power.

The ZS7 is almost 1/3 the cost of the IT01.

The stock cable that comes with the IT01 is freaking amazing, whereas the ZS7 stock cable is ‘just ok’.

So if someone was on an a tighter budget, the ZS7 for sure. Heck, if they only had $100 to spend, you could get the ZS7+Upgrade cable +cheap ChiFi DAP for the exact same price as the IT01 by itself.

The fact that the Reddit Andromeda owner was very impressed with the ZS7 says a lot. If you want to know his exact words, I posted the link to his Reddit post.

That’s why I say ‘it depends’.

If I was stranded on a desert island, I would be completely happy with either. If I was forced to take 1, I guess I’d take the IT01 if only for the cable haha. Otherwise, I’d have to flip a coin!

Also, please note that my IT01 are modded. I peeled off the black filter layer on the nozzle mesh, and I’m only using a single layer stainless mesh.


----------



## Arsis

Hey guys, I have KS6 and so far they are my favorite KZ. I recently traded my Fiio E10K for the Fiio K3. I haven't even listened to it. I ordered the balanced cable which came today.. Unfortunately I am trying to solve the mystery of what happened to my KS6. Tips gone and a  broken nozzle. I haven't done much reading about the KS7 because I have been so happy with the KS6 / E10K  combo. Is there anyone here who has both the KS6 and KS7 that can offer a comparison? I apologize if this has been done. I have ALS and I am paralyzed so I drive my computer with my eyes.


----------



## neo_styles

Arsis said:


> Hey guys, I have KS6 and so far they are my favorite KZ. I recently traded my Fiio E10K for the Fiio K3. I haven't even listened to it. I ordered the balanced cable which came today.. Unfortunately I am trying to solve the mystery of what happened to my KS6. Tips gone and a  broken nozzle. I haven't done much reading about the KS7 because I have been so happy with the KS6 / E10K  combo. Is there anyone here who has both the KS6 and KS7 that can offer a comparison? I apologize if this has been done. I have ALS and I am paralyzed so I drive my computer with my eyes.


I'm assuming by KS6/7 you mean ZS6/7? If that's the case, here's what you can expect with the ZS7:

Smoother top-end. They still have a treble presence, but not to the point of sibilance.
Cleaner midrange. A little less bloom in the midbass, though it's still there.
Much more oomph in the midbass region. ZS7 feels like it has much more impact. That may be a pro or con depending on what you thought about the ZS6
Smaller sense of stage width/height. I blame this on the boost in midbass impact. It's still spacious, but you can tell it takes a slight hit in comparison to the ZS6.
Otherwise, form factor is identical and it's still an all-metal body.


----------



## Arsis

Thanks for catching my typo... I did mean ZS. That comparison sounds appealing.  I will probably be trying the ZS7. What amp are you using?


----------



## rambomhtri

Slater said:


> It may be caused by the memory wires. Depending on how they are adjusted, they can 'push' the IEM against your ear slightly, which can lead to irritation.
> 
> How you can test this is to detach the cables, and just wear the IEM shells in your ears (with no cable at all). If you don't have any irritation, then that was the cause. If the irritation is still there, then it's something with the shell (like the corner voicemaster sanded down).
> 
> You can maybe try different tips (specifically, longer tips like triple flange or SpinFits). This will move the shells away from your ears _just_ enough to where they hopefully wouldn’t rub.


That's actually a really great tip. I'm gonna wear them for a few hours without the cable to check if my ears hurt.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

rambomhtri said:


> May be it could be a cable issue? Not making a great connection?
> 
> Definitely not charging issue because I've though about that, I was charging my phone indeed, I unplugged it and still happened. It's been about 1h since I don't hear the sparks. It's not a constant buzzing, but like tiny sounds of sparks, randomly sounding.



Could it be a hair that got stuck inside and is touching the dynamic driver? I have had that problem with earbuds and it resulted in really annoying clicky sounds. 



neo_styles said:


> Decided to break out the Fiio E12a (Mont Blanc Edition) and Sony NW-A45 to pair with the AS10 today. Such a great combo for the desk. Seems to smooth up the midrange and boost the impact a little bit, which is always a plus. Certainly not as energetic as something like the ZS7, but it's a nice all-day-comfort combo.



I have the same amplifier, I should try it with my KZ/CCA earphones, connected to the X7II.


----------



## neo_styles

Arsis said:


> Thanks for catching my typo... I did mean ZS. That comparison sounds appealing.  I will probably be trying the ZS7. What amp are you using?


I'm usually just running them off headphone power from either a Shanling M0 (rated 80mW@32ohms), Sony A45 (32mW@16ohms), or OnePlus 6 (power spec unknown). They're all capable of driving the ZS7 just fine. Even TRN's BT10 and BT20 can handle powering the ZS7. Very efficient pair.



Arsis said:


> I have the same amplifier, I should try it with my KZ/CCA earphones, connected to the X7II.


Difference probably won't be as big as I'm perceiving considering the extra power you're getting from the X7II (200mW@16ohms). If you've got it on hand, though, definitely worth giving it a shot.


----------



## SoundChoice

rambomhtri said:


> Guys, my left ZS7 is doing noises, like tiny "electric sparks" noises. My right one is not doing that. Just happened, or noticed, today. Have any of you experienced that?
> I've just tried 2 pairs of headphones and they don't behave like that. It's just the KZ ZS7 left headphone.



I experienced and wrote about something similar in my, um, _contrarian_ review here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/21545/


----------



## BadReligionPunk

voicemaster said:


> Zs7 for me and I have both. Not saying it01 bad or anything.





Slater said:


> Well, the answer depends.
> 
> I like the bass and treble of the IT01, but the mods on the ZS7.
> 
> ...



Interesting. I have sworn off cheap IEMs this year, but it looks as if I will be ordering a ZS7 here during anniversary sale. I knew it couldn't last.


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 6, 2019)

Yeah, I'd say this works pretty well for the office. My boss noticed; thought he'd get mad, but he wanted to know how to get the same thing for himself.

I think I've created a monster...



Spoiler


----------



## purplesun (Mar 6, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> Yeah, I'd say this works pretty well for the office. My boss noticed; thought he'd get mad, but he wanted to know how to get the same thing for himself.


IMHO, I find the biggest SQ benefits amping CCA C16 and KZ AS06 than KZ AS10. From unamped Hidizs AP80 or Benjie X3 to amped with an old taobao-bought A47 amplifier board is quite an eye(ear)-opener! Not sure how much the amp board kicks out, I vaguely remember 200+ mW at low impedance (can't remember per channel or combined). Personally, with KZ AS10, I find the amped bass overwhelms other areas, I prefer it with just the AP80. But for thumping bass slam, an amped CCA C16 is hard to beat. Not my thing, and makes me nausea! No EQ applied.


----------



## stryed

Slater said:


> Well, the answer is ‘it depends’.
> 
> I like the bass and treble of the IT01, but the mids on the ZS7.
> 
> ...



What is the purpose of that mod? Is it a foam piece that you are removing? Is the stainless mesh easy to stick back on??? I love my IT01 and would be scared to tweak it. 

Am intersted in kZ7. Although the fit of the KZ5 bothered me for weeks (real pain!!! No pain no game!!!)
I soon got use to it and adore its soundstage, and the fit as well...Like shoes, you need break in


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> Yes, it’s on my to do list. I’m also planning some CCA reviews as soon as they arrive.
> 
> In the mean time, there’s a number of ZS7 reviews:
> 
> ...



Thanks ! 
I love them ! One of the best choice under 50$ !


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Interesting. I have sworn off cheap IEMs this year, but it looks as if I will be ordering a ZS7 here during anniversary sale. I knew it couldn't last.



Have you thought about the C16 instead? Supposedly that is the bees knees.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Well, I’m flattered, but you should really take my opinion with the same grain of salt as the next person’s! Remember, we all have different ear shapes/sizes, different sound preferences. I may like something that someone else hates. Everyone’s opinion counts (unless they’re just a paid shill).
> 
> With that said, my opinion on the ZS7 doesn’t require waiting for my review. It’s an excellent IEM. It’s one of my top favorite IEMs, and is my daily driver.
> 
> ...


I actually love the Zs6 sound. Clear and clean I love it so I already ordered the ZS7 because I think it's a Worthy upgrade after the Zs6


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> Have you thought about the C16 instead? Supposedly that is the bees knees.



Mine's somewhere in the mail system. Should be able receive it in another 10 days or so. 

But this will probably be one purchase for quite some time yet.  I am already very happy with the AS10 and the ZS7 as they are. 

Mainly because of the very good offer from Aliexpress that is ...   

(I paid sub-US$80 for mine.  )


----------



## TechnoidFR

Gazd said:


> I actually love the Zs6 sound. Clear and clean I love it so I already ordered the ZS7 because I think it's a Worthy upgrade after the Zs6



For me they sound different but day better.

Today I don't like zs6. Metallic and overboost treble which miss natural tonality and give more am artificial sound. 
It was my favorite but not today. ZS7 is far better


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Have you thought about the C16 instead? Supposedly that is the bees knees.



Yea I have thought about it, but am hesitant to go all BA. I'm a bass head and prefer DD's. ZS7 sounds "exciting". 

Seeing as how its currently possible to get a C16 for $85, maybe they will be $70ish soon, and I might get one. We will see.


----------



## Gazd (Mar 7, 2019)

Guys I have some questions not related to KZ but related to my KZ ZS7 which is on the way to me. Ah this is my first time buying stuff from AliExpress and I was mistaken when I typed my phone number wrong. When you type +84xxxxxx you don't have to use a 0 next to it but I accidentally put a 0 next +84 because in my country the phone number go with a 0 in front of it. I'm afraid that the shipper will not understand it and can't call me. The second thing is my place have two 17 street in one district I'm afraid he can I find out where my home is... Ah I'm so worry guys can some one give my some opinions? Can the address and the phone number be changed when my ZS7 is on the way to me?


----------



## Podster

Gazd said:


> Guys I have some questions not related to KZ but related to my KZ ZS7 which is on the way to me. Ah this is my first time buying stuff from AliExpress and I was mistaken when I typed my phone number wrong. When you type +84xxxxxx you don't have to use a 0 next to it but I accidentally put a 0 next +84 because in my country the phone number go with a 0 in front of it. I'm afraid that the shipper will not understand it and can't call me. The second thing is my place have two 17 street in one district I'm afraid he can I find out where my home is... Ah I'm so worry guys can some one give my some opinions? Can the address and the phone number be changed when my ZS7 is on the way to me?



I'd just send a message to the seller and give him any updated info.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I see you don't have the C16 yet...


No. But I hear the Tin Audio T3 sound pretty awesome but the C16 should out shine them?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

A reviewer on YouTube said the top end of the ZS7 sounded dull. I guess they mean the treble. They said they loved the Tin Audio T3 much better, which costs $25 more.


----------



## Podster

Well I like my Tin T2's but IMHO they don't sound any better than my ZS6's so I'm inclined to believe the T3's are not going to take out the ZS7's or even sound better for that matter but I'll let you know on the ZS7's soon and for a BA and DD less than the ZS7's I doubt I'll ever know if the 3 BA whips booty on the 4 BA + DD Then again I bet a lot will buy both to test what I won't shell out for either I mean this is Head-Fi


----------



## Slater

stryed said:


> What is the purpose of that mod? Is it a foam piece that you are removing? Is the stainless mesh easy to stick back on??? I love my IT01 and would be scared to tweak it.
> 
> Am intersted in kZ7. Although the fit of the KZ5 bothered me for weeks (real pain!!! No pain no game!!!)
> I soon got use to it and adore its soundstage, and the fit as well...Like shoes, you need break in



It’s been a while, and I can’t remember if the black filter was on top of the stainless or underneath the stainless. But regardless, I removed the black filter layer and never looked back!


----------



## Slater (Mar 7, 2019)

Gazd said:


> Guys I have some questions not related to KZ but related to my KZ ZS7 which is on the way to me. Ah this is my first time buying stuff from AliExpress and I was mistaken when I typed my phone number wrong. When you type +84xxxxxx you don't have to use a 0 next to it but I accidentally put a 0 next +84 because in my country the phone number go with a 0 in front of it. I'm afraid that the shipper will not understand it and can't call me. The second thing is my place have two 17 street in one district I'm afraid he can I find out where my home is... Ah I'm so worry guys can some one give my some opinions? Can the address and the phone number be changed when my ZS7 is on the way to me?



You can do what you want, but I really wouldn’t worry about it. I’ve never been called on the phone because of ChiFi package shipments in my life. I use a throwaway phone number for security reasons anyways. I think a phone number is probably required so if a package gets confiscated with 10kg of drugs, they can use it to track you down.


----------



## stryed

Slater said:


> It’s been a while, and I can’t remember if the black filter was on top of the stainless or underneath the stainless. But regardless, I removed the black filter layer and never looked back!


Is it as easy as the KZ ZS3 mod and just as reversable? Might give that a try!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No. But I hear the Tin Audio T3 sound pretty awesome but the C16 should out shine them?


I was actually just teasing 

I haven't seen a comparison between the two yet, that would be interesting.


----------



## Slater (Mar 7, 2019)

stryed said:


> Is it as easy as the KZ ZS3 mod and just as reversable? Might give that a try!



I can’t guarantee that you’ll like it - you’ll just have to try it and see. 

But @CoiL did the same thing and loves his. I can’t imagine going back to stock on mine


----------



## Gazd

Podster said:


> I'd just send a message to the seller and give him any updated info.


Already contacted the seller. Waiting for response


----------



## DynamicEars

Gazd said:


> Guys I have some questions not related to KZ but related to my KZ ZS7 which is on the way to me. Ah this is my first time buying stuff from AliExpress and I was mistaken when I typed my phone number wrong. When you type +84xxxxxx you don't have to use a 0 next to it but I accidentally put a 0 next +84 because in my country the phone number go with a 0 in front of it. I'm afraid that the shipper will not understand it and can't call me. The second thing is my place have two 17 street in one district I'm afraid he can I find out where my home is... Ah I'm so worry guys can some one give my some opinions? Can the address and the phone number be changed when my ZS7 is on the way to me?





Gazd said:


> Already contacted the seller. Waiting for response



actually you dont have to worry as long as your shipment address is correct. Aliexpress logistic usually forward your package, usually for south east asia, they will use singapore post. after arrived in singapore, they will be forwarded to your country (viet) and when your package arrived in viet, they will be handled by viet courier service, so in case they cant find your address, they can call you and because they are local Vietnam courier, they will understand if youre mistaken put +84-0, they will call you without country code though, they will call you like youre calling your local friend start with 0

mostly they wont call, only just in case if they cant find your address or nobody to receive your package when it is arrived.


----------



## Gazd (Mar 7, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> actually you dont have to worry as long as your shipment address is correct. Aliexpress logistic usually forward your package, usually for south east asia, they will use singapore post. after arrived in singapore, they will be forwarded to your country (viet) and when your package arrived in viet, they will be handled by viet courier service, so in case they cant find your address, they can call you and because they are local Vietnam courier, they will understand if youre mistaken put +84-0, they will call you without country code though, they will call you like youre calling your local friend start with 0
> 
> mostly they wont call, only just in case if they cant find your address or nobody to receive your package when it is arrived.


Oh my God I was so worry about that. Thank for the information. It really calmed me down! I forgot to put my ward in and my street have two parts which about 300 meters far away from each other. Both are 17 Street and I don't know why it's like that and because of that I'm afraid they will not know where is my location upon the two parts of the street


----------



## Shawn71

Gazd said:


> Guys I have some questions not related to KZ but related to my KZ ZS7 which is on the way to me. Ah this is my first time buying stuff from AliExpress and I was mistaken when I typed my phone number wrong. When you type +84xxxxxx you don't have to use a 0 next to it but I accidentally put a 0 next +84 because in my country the phone number go with a 0 in front of it. I'm afraid that the shipper will not understand it and can't call me. The second thing is my place have two 17 street in one district I'm afraid he can I find out where my home is... Ah I'm so worry guys can some one give my some opinions? Can the address and the phone number be changed when my ZS7 is on the way to me?



No worries...cuz the local post man knows each and every corner of your neighborhood...so all it matters is the correct address.
Most of AE free/regular shipments are handled by local post carriers in tge destination country, unless we opted a intl speed post/fedex/ups/dhl etc for faster delivery.
May be, you can reach out to your local PO and put a word, that way they are also in loop,for your peace of mind.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Interesting from KZ Twitter feed...
New earphone coming soon.

https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1103938997271711746?s=19

16


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Mybutthurts said:


> Interesting from KZ Twitter feed...
> New earphone coming soon.
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1103938997271711746?s=19
> ...



Oh no! I hope they won't be better than my C16 
Though that wouldn't be very easy.


----------



## Gazd

Mybutthurts said:


> Interesting from KZ Twitter feed...
> New earphone coming soon.
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1103938997271711746?s=19
> ...


I just ordered the ZS7.... Well...


----------



## Mybutthurts

Possibly the same as CCA but with KZ branding.
There's a image of the C16 internals with board marked up as ''AS16" I think on CCA thread.
I'll wait and see, was going to buy C16...but now


----------



## gbrgbr

Mybutthurts said:


> Interesting from KZ Twitter feed...
> New earphone coming soon.
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1103938997271711746?s=19
> 16



If that Twitter account is legit, does that mean that the KZ Global Store & KZ Official Store are also legit?
I always had a doubt. I always thought some retailer had managed to grab that "url" first.


----------



## BrunoC

I never heard about a fake KZ earphone, but I may be wrong...


----------



## SybilLance

Oh My! GoodnessGraciousLandSakesAlive! Been absent for a while and I’ve more than 50 pages to catch up on. 

Anyway, everyone… Yoo-Hoo!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Looks like that KZ16 is using the same shell as the C16, but looks like it has an aluminum tip like on the ZSN.


----------



## Mybutthurts

BadReligionPunk said:


> Looks like that KZ16 is using the same shell as the C16, but looks like it has an aluminum tip like on the ZSN.



You've seen pictures?


----------



## DynamicEars

BadReligionPunk said:


> Looks like that KZ16 is using the same shell as the C16, but looks like it has an aluminum tip like on the ZSN.





Mybutthurts said:


> You've seen pictures?



by the shadow we can look it, i think it is AS10 shell, since C16 also use AS10 shell, but with aluminium plate as a cover like ZSN style. It looks better than C16 but maybe KZ brand is use for more fun tuning, a v shaped tuning while CCA is for their balanced tuning


----------



## Gazd

DynamicEars said:


> by the shadow we can look it, i think it is AS10 shell, since C16 also use AS10 shell, but with aluminium plate as a cover like ZSN style. It looks better than C16 but maybe KZ brand is use for more fun tuning, a v shaped tuning while CCA is for their balanced tuning


I will be very upset if it is better than the zs7


----------



## Slater (Mar 8, 2019)

Mybutthurts said:


> Interesting from KZ Twitter feed...
> New earphone coming soon.
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1103938997271711746?s=19
> ...



Spoiler alert:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/page-6#post-14814768

Hint, look at 2nd photo...



Gazd said:


> I will be very upset if it is better than the zs7



No need to get upset, even if it is. There’s ALWAYS something better, right? Not just with KZ, but anything in life. The key is to find enjoyment in what you have.

ZS7 is great, so just keep in mind how much _better_ the ZS7 is than all of the worse IEMs out there...and believe me there’s a lot.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> Spoiler alert:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/page-6#post-14814768
> 
> ...


Thank Slater!


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

Slater said:


> If I really want maximum isolation, I just use silicone/foam hybrid tips, which are the best of both worlds.



Could you point me to a good one (other than Symbio)?
Thanks,


----------



## Slater

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> Could you point me to a good one (other than Symbio)?
> Thanks,



Here you go friend:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1515#post-13761857


----------



## BadReligionPunk

DynamicEars said:


> by the shadow we can look it, i think it is AS10 shell, since C16 also use AS10 shell, but with aluminium plate as a cover like ZSN style. It looks better than C16 but maybe KZ brand is use for more fun tuning, a v shaped tuning while CCA is for their balanced tuning


I said tip,  but meant nozzle.  Look at the picture of the nozzle.  It looks like maybe they are using the aluminum nozzles. From ZSN.


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## rambomhtri (Mar 8, 2019)

OK, so I've just tried out the memory foam tips from KZ, those that come in a 3 pair pack of 3 different sizes, red color. My first sensation was awesome, touching the foam is in itself a very pleasant experience, hahaha. Well, I've tried them in the KZ ZS7 and I think they are a little bit more comfortable than silicone tips. They feel really great and comfy.
What do you think about them? How good are they compared to the way more expensive "comply" memory foam, which costs $6 a pair, while it costed me $2 x3 pairs from KZ?

What's supposedly the difference between foam and silicone tips?
Besides feeling it different and a little bit more comfortable (the foam ones), in terms of sound I of course didn't notice anything. May be the treble a little more harsh than silicone? Or I could be imagining that? I don't know, this is so subjective and placebo...
Anyways, if they last quite a few months, may be I forget about silicone tips, which have been my all time choice, and become a foam fan.

Oh, I also feel they isolate worse.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Mybutthurts said:


> Possibly the same as CCA but with KZ branding.
> There's a image of the C16 internals with board marked up as ''AS16" I think on CCA thread.
> I'll wait and see, was going to buy C16...but now



See the difference both C10 and zs10. Absolutely different.

We'll see a different tuning and maybe different driver


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## neo_styles (Mar 8, 2019)

Updated the sig, but can't hide my excitement. Just managed to snag an Opus#1 for a great price. Looking forward to seeing how it plays with all these KZs...and in balanced mode, no less.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> No need to get upset, even if it is. There’s ALWAYS something better, right? Not just with KZ, but anything in life. The key is to find enjoyment in what you have.
> 
> ZS7 is great, so just keep in mind how much _better_ the ZS7 is than all of the worse IEMs out there...and believe me there’s a lot.


I know. I bought all the bad iems/earbuds when I got into this hobby. Newbie mistake on not realizing how Chinese factories/companies operate.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


> Well I like my Tin T2's but IMHO they don't sound any better than my ZS6's so I'm inclined to believe the T3's are not going to take out the ZS7's or even sound better for that matter but I'll let you know on the ZS7's soon and for a BA and DD less than the ZS7's I doubt I'll ever know if the 3 BA whips booty on the 4 BA + DD Then again I bet a lot will buy both to test what I won't shell out for either I mean this is Head-Fi


I heard one person say the Tin Audio T2's sound like cheap toys compared to the T3. I also heard the T3 was 'Open with no isolation'. Sounds like a fail. I'm sticking to KZ and you should too.


----------



## Mybutthurts

BadReligionPunk said:


> Looks like that KZ16 is using the same shell as the C16, but looks like it has an aluminum tip like on the ZSN.



And on a closer look, a nice Matt black finish maybe...
CCA C10 is now a no-no, bring on the as16 (in April maybe) I hope


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I heard one person say the Tin Audio T2's sound like cheap toys compared to the T3. I also heard the T3 was 'Open with no isolation'. Sounds like a fail. I'm sticking to KZ and you should too.



Well LMD, I have ZS7’s coming and bo desire to try any other Tin’s. I’m be willing to bet the person with the no isolation problem with the T3 just had not found the right tip/cable combo and like the old D2000’s that shell design is one of the hardest fits I’ve ever found and tip/cable combo is crucial to a good fit/seal


----------



## purplesun

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Oh no! I hope they won't be better than my C16 .


IMO, the biggest improvement KZ can make to AS16 is - cheaper!
With KZ's sales volume over CCA's, it's probably not that difficult.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Well LMD, I have ZS7’s coming and bo desire to try any other Tin’s. I’m be willing to bet the person with the no isolation problem with the T3 just had not found the right tip/cable combo and like the old D2000’s that shell design is one of the hardest fits I’ve ever found and tip/cable combo is crucial to a good fit/seal



I’m willing to bet the fit is the issue as well, as it can be a troublesome fit.

I was hoping they would have totally changed the shell design for the T3. But alas, they came the same basic design.


----------



## eclein

Slater your fit thing with the tins has me hesitant to try them. I’m interested in T3 but if its a possible fit issue I’m out. The BA10s still baffle me as sometimes I can get a good seating but others zilch....bums me out because they sound very good.


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## Slater

eclein said:


> Slater your fit thing with the tins has me hesitant to try them. I’m interested in T3 but if its a possible fit issue I’m out. The BA10s still baffle me as sometimes I can get a good seating but others zilch....bums me out because they sound very good.



Well maybe they’ll fit you great. Everyone’s ears are different. The sound is certainly good enough to give them a try and take the gamble. 

One nice thing about the T2 is it’s designed to be worn up or down. So at least you have some flexibility in finding the best fit for your ears.


----------



## voicemaster

What is this talking about as16 about?


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## purplesun

voicemaster said:


> What is this talking about as16 about?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2826#post-14823797


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## SybilLance (Mar 9, 2019)

Oh! So there's a dedicated CCA impressions thread now.  Purely as a heads-up/FYI, our local Lazada.com has a store that sells the CCA 16 non-mic for the equivalent of only $71.65, and the mic version for $73.09. I'll be posting the link in the CCA thread.


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## Zerohour88

SybilLance said:


> Oh! So there's a dedicated CCA impressions thread now.  Purely as a heads-up/FYI, our local Lazada.com has a store that sells the CCA 16 non-mic for the equivalent of only $71.65, and the mic version for $73.09. I'll be posting the link in the CCA thread.



damn, the cheapest I can get from a reseller here is usd$86, $72 is quite a lot of discount.


----------



## ShakyJake

KZ ED9 MMCX Mod







Not done by me, but see details here:

https://imgur.com/a/RvH7yMu

There are more comments. some rather off-topic, on the reddit thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/ays6c0/kz_ed9_mmcx_modded_new_improved_now_with/


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## BadReligionPunk

ShakyJake said:


> KZ ED9 MMCX Mod
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just busted a nut.  I have to do that or die trying.


----------



## Podster

Yeah how sweet would nice Silver 16 core be on my black ED9’s


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## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 10, 2019)

The ATR sure holds up well in 2019. Of course its doubled in price since I got it a couple years back. 

PS: The Ate and Atr sound the same now?


----------



## TreehornJackie

I have the last version of ATE. The sound signature response of this version is the exact opposite of the old ones. The highs (10 khz+) are severly strident to the point where I had to stuff some tissue in the nozzle. Overall I don't like them. I think one should pay 10$ more and buy a better earphone. For this money they are good though but I still think there are better options out there (like SHE3590).
I also don't like the ED9. One filter removes the subbass completely while the other has no frontal vent. The latter makes the cable noise unbearable and decreases the soundstage. Furthermore, the lack of frontal vent combined witht heir heavy weight makes them very unconfortable when you're walking.


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## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ATR sure holds up well in 2019. Of course its doubled in price since I got it a couple years back.
> 
> PS: The Ate and Atr sound the same now?



What did you pay a couple of years ago for your KZ ATR?  It is only $7 now and that is what I paid one year ago.


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## purplesun (Mar 10, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> What did you pay a couple of years ago for your KZ ATR?  It is only $7 now and that is what I paid one year ago.


I paid about US$7 for my ATR a month ago. Outside of 11.11 sale, I don't think I have seen it below $5.
Listening to my fave ATE variant now, the ATES. A big bouncy sound with less grainy treble that I hear in ATE and ATR. The cabling is a PITA though.
Did KZ ever make the ATES without the ear hook?

To new headfi members: Go buy KZ-ATES/ATE/ATR for a few bucks and never come back in again! It's crazy diminishing value from these 3 onwards.


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## rambomhtri (Mar 11, 2019)

Holy Heaven!
I've just received a pair of 2nd generation KZ ZSN and I can totally say that the KZ ZS7 are better, noticeable better. The KZ ZSN have even slightly annoying highs/treble. I've bought them as a gift to a friend and also because they are so famous here and wanted to try them out, but I'm glad I purchased for myself the KZ ZS7 because I can say there's a clear big difference between the two. If you can go for the KZ ZS7, just go for them. The ZSN have the professional look and quality, may be they are more ergonomic and comfortable for some people, but in terms of sound I just got a little upset. I was expecting a very similar sound quality to the KZ7, almost unnoticeable difference; sad but true, they sound worse.


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## neo_styles (Mar 11, 2019)

Got the E12a back from my boss after having lent it out to him for a week to try along with the KZ7 I encouraged him to order. He's the type of guy who wouldn't consider himself an audiophile in the least, but he does enjoy things that give him more excitement out of the music he listens to. Here's his very un-seasoned impression of running the KZ7 over the weekend in concert with the E12a:

He wasn't sure the amplifier would do anything to the overall sound at first, but was immediately blown away at how much more spacious the tracks he'd listen to seemed to get. The punches got even punchier (his words, not mine)! He also put on a relaxation app he usually listens to on the weekend for meditation because he wanted to see if he could pick up on some of the microdetails (my choice of words this time). What surprised him most was that he could hear one sound close to him and, on the same plane, more sounds behind it. Gave me the perfect opportunity to explain soundstage and imaging to him.

He also tried the E12a on some of his other earbuds and didn't hear much of a difference between amped and not-amped, but kept gushing over how there was a marked improvement over the ZS7 being amped vs un-amped. After begrudgingly returning the E12a to me, he's all smiles. I suppose that's one very enthusiastic pair of thumbs up 

Now that I've got the E12a back in my possession, I'll spend the week using it along with my pair of ZS7 (on stock medium tips) and the A45 for DAP duties to see what my overall impressions are. Once the Opus#1 shows up, however, all bets are off.


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## pbui44

neo_styles said:


> Got the E12a back from my boss after having lent it out to him for a week to try along with the KZ7 I encouraged him to order. He's the type of guy who wouldn't consider himself an audiophile in the least, but he does enjoy things that give him more excitement out of the music he listens to. Here's his very un-seasoned impression of running the KZ7 over the weekend in concert with the E12a:
> 
> He wasn't sure the amplifier would do anything to the overall sound at first, but was immediately blown away at how much more spacious the tracks he'd listen to seemed to get. The punches got even punchier (his words, not mine)! He also put on a relaxation app he usually listens to on the weekend for meditation because he wanted to see if he could pick up on some of the microdetails (my choice of words this time). What surprised him most was that he could hear one sound close to him and, on the same plane, more sounds behind it. Gave me the perfect opportunity to explain soundstage and imaging to him.
> 
> ...



Geez, tell your boss to get his own FiiO A5, too.


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## neo_styles

pbui44 said:


> Geez, tell your boss to get his own FiiO A5, too.


I've got a spare Schiit Fulla 2 somewhere in storage at the house. Just need to motivate myself to go rummaging through the closet to pull it out. If he likes it enough, we'll make something work.


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## maxxevv

rambomhtri said:


> Holy Heaven!
> I've just received a pair of 2nd generation KZ ZSN and I can totally say that the KZ ZS7 are better, noticeable better. The KZ ZSN have even slightly annoying highs/treble. I've bought them as a gift to a friend and also because they are so famous here and wanted to try them out, but I'm glad I purchased for myself the KZ ZS7 because I can say there's a clear big difference between the two. If you can go for the KZ ZS7, just go for them. The ZSN have the professional look and quality, may be they are more ergonomic and comfortable for some people, but in terms of sound I just got a little upset. I was expecting a very similar sound quality to the KZ7, almost unnoticeable difference; sad but true, they sound worse.



I would have been very surprised if that were not the case. 

KZ definitely price their products according to what each technically can deliver and which target market its meant for. If they were similarly priced, perhaps the differences would have been only in the signature instead. 




neo_styles said:


> Got the E12a back from my boss after having lent it out to him for a week to try along with the KZ7 I encouraged him to order. He's the type of guy who wouldn't consider himself an audiophile in the least, but he does enjoy things that give him more excitement out of the music he listens to. Here's his very un-seasoned impression of running the KZ7 over the weekend in concert with the E12a:
> 
> He wasn't sure the amplifier would do anything to the overall sound at first, but was immediately blown away at how much more spacious the tracks he'd listen to seemed to get. The punches got even punchier (his words, not mine)! He also put on a relaxation app he usually listens to on the weekend for meditation because he wanted to see if he could pick up on some of the microdetails (my choice of words this time). What surprised him most was that he could hear one sound close to him and, on the same plane, more sounds behind it. Gave me the perfect opportunity to explain soundstage and imaging to him.
> 
> ...



The ZS7 is actually really easy to drive in my experience, quite surprised at his observations.  Possibly his original source was really poor or he was listening at a marginally higher volume with the E12A without realising it. 

On my Sabaj Da3, on balanced output,  I put at level 6 or 7 out of 40 with my Foobar2000 / PC volume at about 1/3 only.  
Really low drive requirements compared to say the ZS10 which would be at about 11 /40 and the PC volume at about 1/2.  

But think you just created a monster ...


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## neo_styles (Mar 11, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> The ZS7 is actually really easy to drive in my experience, quite surprised at his observations.  Possibly his original source was really poor or he was listening at a marginally higher volume with the E12A without realising it.
> 
> On my Sabaj Da3, on balanced output,  I put at level 6 or 7 out of 40 with my Foobar2000 / PC volume at about 1/3 only.
> Really low drive requirements compared to say the ZS10 which would be at about 11 /40 and the PC volume at about 1/2.
> ...


Definitely agree with you that they're easy to drive, which is why I was really surprised at his feedback. His source is usually a S9+ which is pretty middle-of-the-road in terms of ability to power equipment. But a monster...yeah, I definitely own up to that. Half the team uses KZ now. The others are hopelessly bound to their Airpods and will probably never transcend. Can't win 'em all.


----------



## maxxevv

Perhaps you should introduce the TRN BT20 coupled to the ZS7 instead for the Airpod bunch !


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## neo_styles

maxxevv said:


> Perhaps you should introduce the TRN BT20 coupled to the ZS7 instead for the Airpod bunch !


I can already see it now. _You mean I actually have to set these up with, like, the Settings menu? No thanks._ Sometimes you have to pick the battles you know you can win.


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## Veyska

rambomhtri said:


> Holy Heaven!
> I've just received a pair of 2nd generation KZ ZSN and I can totally say that the KZ ZS7 are better, noticeable better. The KZ ZSN have even slightly annoying highs/treble. I've bought them as a gift to a friend and also because they are so famous here and wanted to try them out, but I'm glad I purchased for myself the KZ ZS7 because I can say there's a clear big difference between the two. If you can go for the KZ ZS7, just go for them. The ZSN have the professional look and quality, may be they are more ergonomic and comfortable for some people, but in terms of sound I just got a little upset. I was expecting a very similar sound quality to the KZ7, almost unnoticeable difference; sad but true, they sound worse.


I nabbed the ZSNs as a "I want to try out IEMs, see if they work better for me than earbuds, and I might as well get a pair that might even sound pretty good too" experiment.  Had no complaints about them, though while I didn't find the treble annoying it did feel kinda' like it was compensating for having stretched not-quite-enough-treble to cover everything.  Like the audio equivalent of someone relying a bit too hard on Photoshop's sharpen tool to compensate for a slightly blurry image.  By the time my ZSN arrived the CCA C10 reviews were rolling in and I ended up getting that and being similarly satisfied with a similar opinion.    The ZS7s were tempting, but they were a bit over twice the cost of the C10s and since the ZSNs were "good enough" for me I decided to go for the cheaper of the options.  Still, for what I paid for the ZSNs they are awesome and and I've no real regrets for having gotten them.


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## mbwilson111

Veyska said:


> Still, for what I paid for the ZSNs they are awesome and and I've no real regrets for having gotten them.



I have no regrets having gotten two pairs.  I think they sound great and I really don't care if someone else does not.  We all hear differently anyway.


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## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no regrets having gotten two pairs.  I think they sound great and I really don't care if someone else does not.  We all hear differently anyway.



Amen MB Not too mention even some of my iem's (got a pair or two you know) can sound different on any given day I do love when people are dead set on an <$20 sounding bad (to them) or less than their favorite and want to go on and on about it By the way I just ordered a nice black 16 core for my BA10's, who on earth would buy a cable that cost half as much as the iem I think my  even thinks I'm crazy


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## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> Amen MB Not too mention even some of my iem's (got a pair or two you know) can sound different on any given day I do love when people are dead set on an <$20 sounding bad (to them) or less than their favorite and want to go on and on about it By the way I just ordered a nice black 16 core for my BA10's, who on earth would buy a cable that cost half as much as the iem I think my  even thinks I'm crazy



The balanced cable that I have for my cyan ZSN cost as much as the ZSN... in fact I might have been a dollar more.


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## neo_styles

mbwilson111 said:


> The balanced cable that I have for my cyan ZSN cost as much as the ZSN... in fact I might have been a dollar more.


Speaking of, any feedback on whether it'd be prudent to order a balanced 2-pin cable to use with the Opus#1 for the growing KZ collection? If the output via SE is more than adequate, I'll try to save a little, but was curious what impressions you had.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> The balanced cable that I have for my cyan ZSN cost as much as the ZSN... in fact I might have been a dollar more.



Yeah, I got 2.5 to .75 two pin. Cable was $34 so a little less than half the $76 I paid for my BA10's but I find them very complimentary of each other


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## Slater (Mar 11, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have no regrets having gotten two pairs.  I think they sound great and I really don't care if someone else does not.  We all hear differently anyway.



Totally agree.

I can’t think of a single IEM that’s better for the same price I paid for my ZSNs ($12). Especially one that has the same build quality, 2 sets of nice tips, and a really nice (removable) copper braided cable.

MH755 is a possible candidate, but it  needs a recable mod and the build quality is nothing like the ZSN.


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## neo_styles

Woah, what a visceral experience. This might not be of much use to those who don't listen to electronic music, specifically Drum & Bass, but I've been playing Camo & Krooked's _Cross the Line_ with the ZS7/E12a/A45 combo and I'm having trouble staying still at the desk. Such clean, powerful, steady basslines. Usually this album comes across as muddy and lifeless, but there's something magical happening between my ears right now.

Also seem to have identified a new torture track for headphones. If they can stay coherent on this song, I think you've got a worthy pair. The ZS7 are worthy:

_Yes, this is a very un-DnB track. The album as a whole tends to cross genres quite a bit. This is, after all, the duo that I watched break into Mr. Oizo's _Flat Beat_ right after a whole mess of Neurofunk tracks._


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## purplesun

neo_styles said:


> Half the team uses KZ now. The others are hopelessly bound to their Airpods and will probably never transcend. Can't win 'em all.


Have you tried giving earbuds to Airpods users? I find they drop the Apple-only shield more readily when given earphones that look like from 1980s; they're just humouring me. But when their eyeballs nearly pop their sockets - that's another new convert. The earbud forum will have some effective and cheap recommendations


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## blur.png (Mar 12, 2019)

imo ZSN fits more on DNB, on high vocals or electric guitar zsn treble is slightly overwhelming, like the zs6 harsh peaks but on a lower freq, its just a very energetic sounding earphone


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## Slater

blur.png said:


> imo ZSN fits more on DNB, on high vocals or electric guitar zsn treble is slightly overwhelming, like the zs6 harsh peaks but on a lower freq, its just a very energetic sounding earphone



You can always dampen the peaks with foam tips, or the ZST foam mod.


----------



## blur.png

Slater said:


> You can always dampen the peaks with foam tips, or the ZST foam mod.


ik, i used to but it ruins the zsn signature sound and it sounded weird, thats why i switched back to silicone, its about tradeoffs by this point


----------



## Slater

blur.png said:


> ik, i used to but it ruins the zsn signature sound and it sounded weird, thats why i switched back to silicone, its about tradeoffs by this point



Yup, everything comes with trade offs.

You could also try a higher resistance cable (check @hakuzen’s cable database), or an impedance adapter. That will also tone down the treble.

And of course there’s always EQ.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

blur.png said:


> imo ZSN fits more on DNB, on high vocals or electric guitar zsn treble is slightly overwhelming, like the zs6 harsh peaks but on a lower freq, its just a very energetic sounding earphone


HAHA. My favorite part about ZSN is the insane energy. Punk and Metal guitars are all up in your face, and the lowend is tight and fast. Makes me want to air guitar like a mofo. Totally get what your saying though. You can smoothen them out with eq, but I like them the way they are.


----------



## blur.png

BadReligionPunk said:


> HAHA. My favorite part about ZSN is the insane energy. Punk and Metal guitars are all up in your face, and the lowend is tight and fast. Makes me want to air guitar like a mofo. Totally get what your saying though. You can smoothen them out with eq, but I like them the way they are.


yeah thats why i havent sold them, zsn is one of those earphone which only says "yes or no". its either no impact or too much impact (adrenaline rush for no reason rolf)


----------



## DynamicEars

blur.png said:


> ik, i used to but it ruins the zsn signature sound and it sounded weird, thats why i switched back to silicone, its about tradeoffs by this point



just EQ down at 2.5-3khz and youre all set buddy


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## Slater (Mar 12, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> just EQ down at 2.5-3khz and youre all set buddy



Another option would be to install some red KZ nylon filters. They can be stuck right on top of the existing ZSN stainless nozzle filter.

They knock down that exact frequency range a couple of dBs. Should be the perfect amount.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1932#post-14097059

The filters come installed on EDR1 and EDR2 ($3 pair) among other KZ models such as the ZS3. And on all 3 of those models, it’s actually beneficial to remove the red filters and run with normal stainless mesh filters. So basically you have leftover red nylon filters that you can use on other earphones. I save them on a scrap of non-stick wax paper (for cooking/baking). They stay sticky and in perfect condition, ready to use when I need them.


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## blur.png (Mar 12, 2019)

Slater said:


> Another option would be to install some red KZ nylon filters. They can be stuck right on top of the existing ZSN stainless nozzle filter.
> 
> They knock down that exact frequency range a couple of dBs. Should be the perfect amount.
> 
> ...


welp **** me i guess, i ripped them off my ES4 and threw it away and i gave away both of my HD9's
and im low on cash right now, great combination *sigh*


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Amen MB Not too mention even some of my iem's (got a pair or two you know) can sound different on any given day I do love when people are dead set on an <$20 sounding bad (to them) or less than their favorite and want to go on and on about it By the way I just ordered a nice black 16 core for my BA10's, who on earth would buy a cable that cost half as much as the iem I think my  even thinks I'm crazy



How do you like those BA10's, Pod?


----------



## Podster

I like them and am now waiting on the ZS7's to get hear so I can compare them to the BA10's, you know I got some big old ears and to get a little extra length on my tips I cut some collars out of an old small pair of Auvio's like I did with my HQ12's and perfect. Different than my ZS6's but not twice the SQ IMO, they are really smooth and inviting but being a mid's/High's guy I like a little sizzle on the very top end (Pretty much what all the KZ haters dislike) I'm afraid with the latest iterations of KZ they will never get to the >$100 iem and I think they are satisfied with selling several bazillion <$75 ones


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I'm afraid with the latest iterations of KZ they will never get to the >$100 iem and I think they are satisfied with selling several bazillion <$75 ones



I’m willing to bet the upcoming CCA C20 will break that barrier.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> I’m willing to bet the upcoming CCA C20 will break that barrier.



Well I'll let you test and be the judge on that one buddy as the $76 BA10 was my limit on KZ, too many other brands interest me over the Benji mark and really once we got over $50 the budget luster has faded for me with them. Now you can always send me your (or one of your CCA 20's) and I'll compare that to my Modded ED9's and tell you if I think they are 10 time better To be really fair I could put Shaky's MMCX Mod and a nice 16 core on them and the gap may be narrowed both ways


----------



## theresanarc

I'm planning to buy the KZ ZSR because I was looking for under-$30 earphones with the best noise isolation possible. Any other KZ alternatives I should consider preferably with a brighter sound signature?


----------



## usuario74

Hi guys,
I happen to be in Shenzhen tomorrow. I wondered if anybody knows a physical store or stores that would sell KZ iems, cables for them and tips. Or Chi-Fi audio gear in general.
Preferably in Huaqiang area.

...oh! And somewhere to buy the Xiaomi Roborock S50 vacuum robot. The Xiaomi flagship store does not sell them (I know I know not related to this site, Sorry).

Thank you.


----------



## crabdog

My thoughts on the ZS7 are up. Enjoy. 
https://primeaudio.org/kz-zs7-review/


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## 1clearhead

*Thanks to Slater!*
I was able to get the KZ ZS7 by special order in China and they are worth every penny!   NOTE: The ZS7's target audience is only "outside of China". 

The ear tips that satisfied me the most on the ZS7 are the medium silicone E-series by Final. Excellent speed, texture, and details! Bass is nicely tamed with a nicer enhanced sub-bass while clarity effortlessly comes through incredibly clean and clear! These are seriously fun and intriguing!...I consider them keepers!

-Clear


----------



## loomisjohnson (Mar 13, 2019)

i got an unsolicited (and wholly unexpected)  pair of kz zs7 from an ali seller and submit herewith my initial impressions (i'll post a fuller review on otto motor's site):


*Soundwise, these are slightly warm, energetic and very spacious-sounding, with a rich note texture. Signature is balanced, in the (technical) sense of not unduly emphasizing a particular frequency, though by no means audiophile flat—there’s a certain adrenalized quality throughout the spectrum, though less so than the hyperfrenzied ZSN. Low end has good extension, depth and impact and shows much better control and speed than the bloomy ZS5 or ZSR, which tended to bleed over into the higher frequencies—midbass in particular has less quantity and focus than the ZS6, resulting in a cleaner presentation. Midrange (especially lower mids) sounds full and forward; guitars and male vocals in particular have a lot of body, albeit with a “chesty,” heavy quality on some material. As noted, treble is noticeably less extended here and these have little of the sharpness and shrillness of the ZS5/ZS6, although the ZS7 rolls off sooner and presents less information (they’re also less exhausting); there’s some sparkle but drums and cymbals lack just a little snap and realism. Soundstage isn’t as wide as the ZS5 or ZSR but nonetheless uncongested, enveloping and 3D; the effect is closer to open-air headphones. As with most KZs, imaging and instrument placement are excellent for this price class. While not seamless, driver coherence is much better on these than the ZS5 or ZSR; bass in particular is better-integrated and there are fewer audible peaks and dips.*

*Where these trail the  pricey universals they’re aping is in the naturalness of the presentation and reproduction of low-level details like fingertips and reverberations--you remain conscious of hearing a reproduction of instruments rather than the actual instruments. Owing, I’d assume to the quality of the drivers used, the subtlest elements are somewhat repressed; compared to something the UE900s, these sound artificially juiced and slightly coarse. These differences may not be cost-effective if, like me, you typically listen to lossy files on less-than-optimal sources, and lots of times one prefers this less delicate presentation. In the same price range, the smaller-sounding Bosshifi B3 or BQEYZ BQ3 may sound more accurate, though the ZS7 is more fun and is a definite step-up from its predecessors. Recommended.

That said, going forward I'd like to see KZ change the formula and move, at least on some models, towards that amorphous higher resolution--as viscerally enjoyable as it is the ZS7 is nonetheless an enhancement of their party-hearty house sound, as opposed to a new tuning; broadly speaking there's not a ton of differentiation between the $50 ZS7 and the $15 ZSN. Maybe that's what they're doing with CCA, which I haven't heard (as an inappropriate aside, my beloved bride, a prolific artist, tends to paint the same face over and over again. she use different mediums and colors, and some are better than others, but it's still the same face). hire different engineers. embrace the unknown. have a good time.*


----------



## loomisjohnson

theresanarc said:


> I'm planning to buy the KZ ZSR because I was looking for under-$30 earphones with the best noise isolation possible. Any other KZ alternatives I should consider preferably with a brighter sound signature?


zs4 isolates like a mofo


----------



## Sylmar

Slater said:


> Another option would be to install some red KZ nylon filters. They can be stuck right on top of the existing ZSN stainless nozzle filter.
> 
> They knock down that exact frequency range a couple of dBs. Should be the perfect amount.
> 
> ...



Fantastic info as usual Slater. Did the mod immediately, also on my ED16's which are very enjoyable now. Do you happen to know if these nylon filters can be bought separately?


----------



## fluteloop (Mar 25, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> Definitely agree with you that they're easy to drive, which is why I was really surprised at his feedback. His source is usually a S9+ which is pretty middle-of-the-road in terms of ability to power equipment. But a monster...yeah, I definitely own up to that. Half the team uses KZ now. The others are hopelessly bound to their Airpods and will probably never transcend. Can't win 'em all.



My s9+ has the worst sq of any phone I've ever owned*. It gets blown away by my little xduoo x2.

Edit: it's not bad. My little x2 keeps up. S9+ isn't the worst phone I've heard...I didn't even get it for music I don't have more than 10 tracks on it. I mostly just listen to streamed podcasts on it. If I needed it for music and had no other means, I'd be ok with it.  Sorry for any s9 owners out there possibly offended.


----------



## rambomhtri

One quick question:

In terms of sound (clarity, audio quality, balance and separation of instruments...), how the ZS7 compares to the BA10?


----------



## Leo-rume

Anyone knows what type of kz (silver copper mixed) cable fits flush on the CCA C10?. Type A or type B?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 12, 2019)

crabdog said:


> My thoughts on the ZS7 are up. Enjoy.
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zs7-review/


Your review makes me wish I didn't buy the ZS7 (havent heard it yet)  but at the same time I'm confused of the recomendation of the CCA C10 over the KZ ZS7.

A very polarizing review but not the deepest.


----------



## Gazd

rambomhtri said:


> One quick question:
> 
> In terms of sound (clarity, audio quality, balance and separation of instruments...), how the ZS7 compares to the BA10?


Same question


----------



## crabdog

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Your review makes me wish I didn't buy the ZS7 (havent heard it yet)  but at the same time I'm confused of the recomendation of the CCA C10 over the KZ ZS7.
> 
> A very polarizing review but not the deepest.


Why are you confused about that? The C10 is 20% cheaper, more comfortable (for me) and has a non-fatiguing but resolving signature and slightly less sh1t cable. 

You might love the ZS7; Like I said, it's actually a good IEM but it just has a lot of extremely good alternatives in the same price range.


----------



## Slater

Sylmar said:


> Fantastic info as usual Slater. Did the mod immediately, also on my ED16's which are very enjoyable now. Do you happen to know if these nylon filters can be bought separately?



You’re welcome 

Credit for the frequency measurement goes to @Otto Motor.

I knew the filters bumped up the upper mids or lower treble; I just didn’t know exactly what frequency and by how much.

As far as buying the filters, I have not found a source for them. That’s why I always save them whenever I remove them (assuming they’re not clogged up with gunk, which ruins them).

I wish I could find a source for them, as they cost pennies. I have a source for stainless mesh filters. Just jot the nylon ones. If I find a source I’ll be sure to share the info!


----------



## maxxevv

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Your review makes me wish I didn't buy the ZS7 (havent heard it yet)  but at the same time I'm confused of the recomendation of the CCA C10 over the KZ ZS7.
> 
> A very polarizing review but not the deepest.



Its at best subjective when it comes to "listening opinion reviews".  What's important  is to understand  the context of the reviewers POV, usually its highly influenced by his/her personal preferences.  There are no absolute rights/ wrongs most of the time if the earphone is already performing at a decent technical level imo. 

In this case, he definitely has a preference for a more neutral signature and a more rolled-off/ less strident treble signature. 

Generally, I prefer to reference not just the difference between the various earphones but also the suitability of each for different types/genres of music. 

As I have said before, the ZS7 is definitely geared towards the more energetic end of the music spectrum.  If you're listening to music that's generally in that spectrum, its a very good sounding earphone. Stuff like EDM, trance and generally pop music will sound nice and lively on them.  They are not tonally perfect, so stuff that are more intimate such as acoustics, solo vocals may in some cases sound a little off (but not completely off in my opinion).  Classical music too but only in certain scenarios such as a passage of flute solo which somehow sounded a little off compared to my HD6XX. 

But that's mostly minor and nitpicking. And completely moot when fast, energetic music is on the menu.  Wonderful earphones if they suit your genre of music. Still very competent if they are not either.


----------



## Gazd

Have any one tried the Ba 10? I need some reviews about it. It might be my next target. How it is compare to other earphones at the same price


----------



## SybilLance

Leo-rume said:


> Anyone knows what type of kz (silver copper mixed) cable fits flush on the CCA C10?. Type A or type B?



Type A. And try wide-bore eartips. 



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Your review makes me wish I didn't buy the ZS7 (havent heard it yet)  but at the same time I'm confused of the recomendation of the CCA C10 over the KZ ZS7.
> 
> A very polarizing review but not the deepest.





crabdog said:


> Why are you confused about that? The C10 is 20% cheaper, more comfortable (for me) and has a non-fatiguing but resolving signature and slightly less sh1t cable.
> 
> You might love the ZS7; Like I said, it's actually a good IEM but it just has a lot of extremely good alternatives in the same price range.



A Regional Trial Court Judge friend received her KZ ZS7 yesterday and gave the unopened box to me so I could "assemble" them. Ha! Listened to them overnight using my own eartips. Agree to the general impression that it is a Fun, Energetic IEM with seemingly none of the treble sizzle of the ZS6, although I must say with foams the ZS6 top end doesn't bother me.

Having this quite limited time for initial impressions, I can say that the ZS7 is indeed very, very good—as a definite upgrade to the ZS6 it _is_ Great. However, I have to agree with crabdog's view that despite its Irresistible, Infectious Vitality (Oh that Bass! I got my clueless husband to join me as I danced to Bruno Mars with it in my ears and holding on to my rig), ultimately it still is a variant—probably the best but still a variant—of that KZ signature that many of us are familiar with by now.

Bach's Goldberg Variations are supremely beautiful and transcendent but if you always and regularly listen to them I suppose at some point in time you'll get the itch to listen to something else.

Now the CCA C10 ($26 for me; don't really know how much is the least price of the ZS7) that's a departure from the KZ signature. Mature and refined sound considering its genes. Very good low-end well into sub-bass but with a resonance, precision and control that's reminiscent of Simgot EM3 bass though with lesser impact particularly at the midbass; delicious not recessed midrange; and just so smooth yet quite resolving, detailed upper end. And it's coherence I believe bests the KZ in-ears I've heard, including, i daresay, the ZS7.


----------



## pbui44

Someone should have their KZ BA10 and KZ ZS7 hanging by their cables and swinging against each other’s housings in a fight to the death to see which KZ has one side or both sides go out first.


----------



## Gazd

pbui44 said:


> Someone should have their KZ BA10 and KZ ZS7 hanging by their cables and swinging against each other’s housings in a fight to the death to see which KZ has one side or both sides go out first.


Dud!


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> I'm afraid with the latest iterations of KZ they will never get to the >$100 iem and I think they are satisfied with selling several bazillion <$75 ones



why do we need more brands on that price range? or even above it. So many choices there currently, with many more makers making debut models in that usd$100+ price bracket (like the Tansio, Ikko OH1, dB Monroe, Tipsy Dunmer, also a few more chi-fi brands that popped up in taobao that I can't even recall).

KZ would make more profit just focusing on sub usd$100 and getting that sweet volume sale (while slowly refining their approach with each model). I'll play with other brands while I wait for my annual (or bi-annual) KZ buy and just read about them latest models online.


----------



## Leo-rume

[QUOTE="SybilLance, post: 1483

Ohh.. Thank you. I have some tennmark wide bore tips lying around. I'll definitely try with those


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

If you want to move up from the ZS7, I suggest the CCA C16. It sounds more accurate, very good instrument separation and really nice soundstage. Bass is less strong and deep, but tight and well defined. I don't like the C10 as much as the ZS7. The C10 sounds very smooth, with a wide soundstage, but instrument separation is not as good. Works well for lots of genres, but is a bit too laid-back sounding for me.


----------



## Sylmar

Slater said:


> You’re welcome
> 
> Credit for the frequency measurement goes to @Otto Motor.
> 
> ...



Much appreciated! I'll keep my eyes peeled as well and post a link whenever I'm able to find them.


----------



## loomisjohnson

maxxevv said:


> Its at best subjective when it comes to "listening opinion reviews".  What's important  is to understand  the context of the reviewers POV, usually its highly influenced by his/her personal preferences.  There are no absolute rights/ wrongs most of the time if the earphone is already performing at a decent technical level imo.
> 
> In this case, he definitely has a preference for a more neutral signature and a more rolled-off/ less strident treble signature.
> 
> ...


well said--the zs7 is quite genre-specific. they sounded real good with with "exile on main street" and the stroppies, a great new garagey NZ band; with more vocal-centric music, like the thompsons' "shoot out the lights" they did sound slightly off. but good overall.


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> why do we need more brands on that price range? or even above it. So many choices there currently, with many more makers making debut models in that usd$100+ price bracket (like the Tansio, Ikko OH1, dB Monroe, Tipsy Dunmer, also a few more chi-fi brands that popped up in taobao that I can't even recall).
> 
> KZ would make more profit just focusing on sub usd$100 and getting that sweet volume sale (while slowly refining their approach with each model). I'll play with other brands while I wait for my annual (or bi-annual) KZ buy and just read about them latest models online.



That’s pretty much what I said, KZ’s bread and butter is really in the sub $50 ranges and IMHO they define great budget audio gear not unlike NAD home gear, no company outside of NAD offers more for your money im home audio with exception of Vandersteen.


----------



## blur.png

does anyone here uses kz 4.1 non aptx cable? i ruined my phone headphone jack and my unit is stuck on chinese mode (lol) how does one change the language

also how does this cable compare to the bt20, in terms of battery life, noise floor & audio quality since kz's bt cable increases treble and decreases bass which is a bit disappointing


----------



## Mustache (Mar 13, 2019)

Hey guys, have been out of the kz new launches for a while now. I already had a lot of headphones from them, i love the KZ ATE, didn't like the KZ ZS3 very much, so i gave it away to a friend of mine. But now my ATE is dead on one side and i wanted to buy a removable cable pair that is more like the ATEs. For my sound taste, i hate sibling highs and love to hear acoustic/songwriter music like John Meyer of sorts, so i believe that really full and rich mediums would be nice, i also like electronic music at times so a nice bass would be appreciated as well. Can you guys give me a recommendation based on that?


----------



## loomisjohnson

Mustache said:


> Hey guys, have been out of the kz new launches for a while now. I already had a lot of headphones from them, i love the KZ ATE, didn't like the KZ ZS3 very much, so i gave it away to a friend of mine. But now my ATE is dead on one side and i wanted to buy a removable cable pair that is more like the ATEs. For my sound taste, i hate sibling highs and love to hear acoustic/songwriter music like John Meyer of sorts, so i believe that really full and rich mediums would be nice, i also like electronic music at times so a nice bass would be appreciated as well. Can you guys give me a recommendation based on that?


the new zs7 definitely has rich full mediums and tones down the highs. for less $$ the ed16 would fit the bill.


----------



## Podster

loomisjohnson said:


> zs4 isolates like a mofo



This would be my choice as well The Red ones with the TRN cable slay for <$20 I cannot lie, I may have a thing for ZS6's as well


----------



## Mustache

loomisjohnson said:


> the new zs7 definitely has rich full mediums and tones down the highs. for less $$ the ed16 would fit the bill.


If i chose the ED16, would i benefit from buying a separate more expensive cable (silver, maybe?)? And i know nothing about eartips, should i try to enter in this whole new world or should the standard ones serve me good?


----------



## blur.png

Podster said:


> This would be my choice as well The Red ones with the TRN cable slay for <$20 I cannot lie, I may have a thing for ZS6's as well


just curious, why do you have 3 zs6's ?


----------



## Podster

blur.png said:


> just curious, why do you have 3 zs6's ?



I cannot lie again, they are one of my favorite KZ's and on shallower terms it's all about accessorizing  You know


----------



## neo_styles

Mustache said:


> If i chose the ED16, would i benefit from buying a separate more expensive cable (silver, maybe?)? And i know nothing about eartips, should i try to enter in this whole new world or should the standard ones serve me good?


Standard cable will be fine. Only reason I'd upgrade the ED16's cable is if you wanted to go for something more aesthetically-pleasing.


----------



## mbwilson111

neo_styles said:


> Standard cable will be fine. Only reason I'd upgrade the ED16's cable is if you wanted to go for something more aesthetically-pleasing.



...or more comfortable.  The stock cable would not lie properly behind my ear and felt annoying. Too rubbery.


----------



## Slater (Mar 13, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> ...or more comfortable.  The stock cable would not lie properly behind my ear and felt annoying. Too rubbery.



I’ve found the stock braided cables work great for recabling MH755. Since the MH755 don’t go behind the ear, the springyness of the cable doesn’t matter.

And they’re not too thick, so the cable still fits inside the MH755 strain relief. They’re good quality copper or SPC cables.

A bonus is when you snip off the 2-pin ends and memory wires, you have the perfect opportunity to add a bead onto the wire to use as a chin slider if desired. Then finish soldering them to the 755 and you’re golden.

They’d also work well for the DIY earbuds Panda has been cranking out


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I’ve found the stock braided cables work great for recabling MH755, since the MH755 don’t go behind the ear. Not too thick, so it still fits inside the MH755 strain relief. Good quality otherwise.



I was talking about the ED16 stock cable which is not braided.  I love the stock braided KZ cables,,,, and I really appreciate memory wire.  I started out preferring IEMs that can be worn cable down and I still do... but I  have some really nice ones that have to go over ear.  I have learned to wear them.



Slater said:


> They’d also work well for the DIY earbuds Panda has been cranking out



True, but kind of looking for more unique colors... Like we used on this one... The HungryPanda Ghost which he made for me last week (and one for himself).  I am using grey foams on it (my purple foams don't match correctly).  So far I have never worn a bud over ear but I know of people who wear them all over ear.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> I was talking about the ED16 stock cable which is not braided.  I love the stock braided KZ cables,,,, and I really appreciate memory wire.  I started out preferring IEMs that can be worn cable down and I still do... but I  have some really nice ones that have to go over ear.  I have learned to wear them.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but kind of looking for more unique colors... Like we used on this one... The HungryPanda Ghost which he made for me last week (and one for himself).  I am using grey foams on it (my purple foams don't match correctly).  So far I have never worn a bud over ear but I know of people who wear them all over ear.



Ooh MB, you know what a sucker the Pod is for purdy colors That gorgeous Lavender cable pops with that nice blue zipper on your case It's all in the accessorizing you know , come to think of it I need to get a little gender correct before someone suspects something! Not that I really care but let's try this combo


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

crabdog said:


> Why are you confused about that? The C10 is 20% cheaper, more comfortable (for me) and has a non-fatiguing but resolving signature and slightly less sh1t cable.
> 
> You might love the ZS7; Like I said, it's actually a good IEM but it just has a lot of extremely good alternatives in the same price range.


Who else thinks the CCA C10 is better than the KZ ZS7? I wonder what alternatives are better than the ZS7 in its price range? Just the C10?


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who else thinks the CCA C10 is better than the KZ ZS7? I wonder what alternatives are better than the ZS7 in its price range? Just the C10?



It is not always about better or worse.  Sometimes it is just about being different in signature, or more or less suited to your ears or your gear or your type of music.   Enjoy the ones you have chosen.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who else thinks the CCA C10 is better than the KZ ZS7? I wonder what alternatives are better than the ZS7 in its price range? Just the C10?


**** and C10 both are great sub $30 IEMs


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> It is not always about better or worse.  Sometimes it is just about being different in signature, or more or less suited to your ears or your gear or your type of music.   Enjoy the ones you have chosen.



You took the words right out of my mouth.

Both are great, and I thoroughly enjoy them both. They have different sound signatures.


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who else thinks the CCA C10 is better than the KZ ZS7? I wonder what alternatives are better than the ZS7 in its price range? Just the C10?



Well as much as I like (and respect) Mr. Crabs I not so sure for my taste the C10 is better than the ZS7 but when he sends me his pair to check them out and I'll reconsider Until then we all hear them differently so I'm not sure better is as accurate as all that considering he did not listen to them with my ears Luv ya Crabby


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who else thinks the CCA C10 is better than the KZ ZS7? I wonder what alternatives are better than the ZS7 in its price range? Just the C10?



I will have C10 in my hand tomorrow and of course I will compare it to my ZS7.


----------



## vs40

I'm not sure if it is right thread to ask, but can someone suggest *asymmetrical* cable for ZS10?


----------



## Slater

vs40 said:


> I'm not sure if it is right thread to ask, but can someone suggest *asymmetrical* cable for ZS10?



You mean a J cable?


----------



## vs40

Slater said:


> You mean a J cable?


When right side is longer than left side.
Is it J cable?


----------



## Slater

vs40 said:


> When right side is longer than left side.
> Is it J cable?



Yes.

I’ve never seen one, but you can easily shorten a cable to make one if you know how to solder. You can also have a cable custom made of course.


----------



## omegaorgun

Hi Guys what is a nice KZ iem that is not harsh with nice bass?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have both CCA C10 and ZS7. I prefer CCA C10 as it is more neutral but also like the ZS7 a lot. Prefer AS10 and BA10 though


----------



## vs40

Slater said:


> I’ve never seen one


Sad(
I thought what with detachable cables I will have some options...


Slater said:


> but you can easily shorten a cable to make one


Basically, I need to make right one *longer*.
If make one of the sides shorter it will be not so comfortable to wear.


Slater said:


> You can also have a cable custom made of course.


How much it can cost?


----------



## blur.png

omegaorgun said:


> Hi Guys what is a nice KZ iem that is not harsh with nice bass?


ES4, cant hear anything harsh with them, it has good bass
not sure about other models, but imo avoid ZSN & ZS6 if you dont like "harsh"


----------



## purplesun (Mar 13, 2019)

omegaorgun said:


> Hi Guys what is a nice KZ iem that is not harsh with nice bass?


KZ ATES, the ATE variant with ear hooks.
Or, KZ AS10, flatter bass, more forward mids and slightly brighter treble response.


----------



## ShakyJake (Mar 13, 2019)

A new, favorable KZ7 review by @loomisjohnson (with pictures by @Slater!) is up:

https://www.audioreviews.org/knowledge-zenith-zs7-review-onwards-and-upwards/


----------



## SybilLance

omegaorgun said:


> Hi Guys what is a nice KZ iem that is not harsh with nice bass?


Funny but your query is really quite timely landing as it did amidst a running discussion. 

Since there's no info as to your individual music preference, based on the assumption that by the descriptives "nice" and "not harsh" you do like bass of a certain magnitude and you dislike overemphasis on treble, then you just might have pictured the new KZ ZS7. It's got Big, Beautiful, Bountiful, Breathtaking Bass. A midrange that's quite full and rich. And it's treble is detailed enough, but tastefully tuned as to remove any harshness. 

But if you're on the search for a pair of in-ears just about perfect for balanced, extended, fatigue-free listening sessions in your favorite space or cozy corner or simply doing quiet tasks then its cousin, the CCA C10 would fit the bill.


----------



## blur.png

i found out how to enjoy my ZSN, a decent source (any phone with a dedicated dac will do) and a trn cable, it seems to soften the treble
for some reason my phone makes it sounds harsh yet my galaxy camera makes it sounds great
never knew cables would make that much of a difference


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 14, 2019)

I never really listened to my ZST because I kept getting popping in my right ear canal. Weird canal causes driver flex?

I recently tried listening to them again and since they and the ZS3 were my first models I realized the ZST sounds like the left and right ear are listening to the same thing but in two different ways like each of them are going down different tunnels. It's really weird.


----------



## jeromeaparis

omegaorgun said:


> Hi Guys what is a nice KZ iem that is not harsh with nice bass?


Yes I agree: ES4 for sure !


----------



## HAMS

Just listened my sister's rock zircon, they're surprisingly decent I prefer it over ZSN lol. Mids and highs are smoother, no weird peaks I can hear when I EQ down the bass.


----------



## Slater

vs40 said:


> Sad(
> I thought what with detachable cables I will have some options...
> 
> Basically, I need to make right one *longer*.
> ...



In that case, it may make more sense just to have a short ‘pigtail’ extension made. It could be however long you want to extend the right side by (8” for example). And it would have a female 2-pin socket on 1 end and a male 2-pin plug on the other end. The adapter would go in between the right IEM and your current cable.

That way, you can still retain the use of the stock cable, any balanced cables, etc.

Make sense ?


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> Just listened my sister's rock zircon, they're surprisingly decent I prefer it over ZSN lol. Mids and highs are smoother, no weird peaks I can hear when I EQ down the bass.



White or black color?


----------



## vs40

Slater said:


> In that case, it may make more sense just to have a short ‘pigtail’ extension made. It could be however long you want to extend the right side by (8” for example). And it would have a female 2-pin socket on 1 end and a male 2-pin plug on the other end. The adapter would go in between the right IEM and your current cable.
> 
> That way, you can still retain the use of the stock cable, any balanced cables, etc.
> 
> Make sense ?


It can be solution if it is not possible to get factory J cable...
But I never done this before... do you have links for some instructions/manuals?


----------



## HAMS

Slater said:


> White or black color?


Black.


----------



## Slater (Mar 14, 2019)

vs40 said:


> It can be solution if it is not possible to get factory J cable...
> But I never done this before... do you have links for some instructions/manuals?



I’d recommend starting with some YouTube videos on soldering, and then look for some videos on fixing audio cables. I seem to remember seeing some in the past that show how to put on a new TRS 3.5mm plug.

But if this case, it’s not even that complicated. The 2-pin adapter cable is literally just soldering 2 wires. It would be a great learning experience.

You can buy the parts from Aliexpress. I’d search for ‘0.75mm (or 0.78mm) DIY plugs’ or something along those lines.


----------



## HAMS

vs40 said:


> It can be solution if it is not possible to get factory J cable...
> But I never done this before... do you have links for some instructions/manuals?


Or if you want the easy way, just coil one cable on to the other. And tie it with zip tie or glue..


----------



## Slater (Mar 14, 2019)

HAMS said:


> Or if you want the easy way, just coil one cable on to the other. And tie it with zip tie or glue..



That’s a great suggestion, but he mentioned that it needs to be longer than it currently is (not shorter).


----------



## BubbaJay

Now that I've had a little over a week with the ZSR I can say while they're still a really nice IEM for the price they do have some faults.  There is some part of the treble that can sound a bit harsh and also just sounds off compared to the treble from better IEMs.  The mids can sound a bit thin at times as well.  The last thing is the fit isn't the best and the start to hurt my ears after a while which doesn't happen with some of my other IEMs.

For $30 I still feel it's a good deal for people wanting good SQ but don't want to spend much but if you can afford a more expensive pair I say go for it.  Compared to my Flare Audio R2A the KZ is a few steps behind.


----------



## HAMS

Slater said:


> That’s a great suggestion, but he mentioned that it needs to be longer than it currently is (not shorter).



Yeah I don't know how long he need it. Top part of KZ's cables are pretty long that I braid the top part halfway on my zsn cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I realized the ZST sounds like the left and right ear are listening to the same thing but in two different ways like each of them are going down different tunnels. It's really weird.



Have you tested to see if they are in phase?  Everytime something has been really weird to me it turns out that it is out of phase (which can be corrected).


----------



## crabdog

Podster said:


> Well as much as I like (and respect) Mr. Crabs I not so sure for my taste the C10 is better than the ZS7 but when he sends me his pair to check them out and I'll reconsider Until then we all hear them differently so I'm not sure better is as accurate as all that considering he did not listen to them with my ears Luv ya Crabby


Maybe I wasn't clear in my statements. My choice of the C10 overs ZS7 is in the context of the price. In fact, if you presented me with both IEMs at the same price and with the same cable I would actually choose the ZS7.  I could easily have given the KZ 4/5 stars but considering the current state of Chi-Fi, I feel like I need to be tougher on points. This is the downside of having a rating system; a few things come along that are so good (QT2, QT5, C10, BQEYZ, AS06 etc) they mess up the previous standards or they raise the bar and all your previous scores become misrepresentative or outdated. It's impossible to keep everything rated properly without adjusting each and every individual score each time a new product is added. Such is the nature of Chi-Fi - things keep getting better and more affordable at an alarming rate.


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> Maybe I wasn't clear in my statements. My choice of the C10 overs ZS7 is in the context of the price. In fact, if you presented me with both IEMs at the same price and with the same cable I would actually choose the ZS7.  I could easily have given the KZ 4/5 stars but considering the current state of Chi-Fi, I feel like I need to be tougher on points. This is the downside of having a rating system; a few things come along that are so good (QT2, QT5, C10, BQEYZ, AS06 etc) they mess up the previous standards or they raise the bar and all your previous scores become misrepresentative or outdated. It's impossible to keep everything rated properly without adjusting each and every individual score each time a new product is added. Such is the nature of Chi-Fi - things keep getting better and more affordable at an alarming rate.



Well I was kinda of pulling your leg a little, my main point is even regardless of price and that is that we do all hear them differently from budget Chi-Fi to top tier IMHO. You know Pod has great respect in what you do for this community, I do for all my Bumper Bros


----------



## Zerohour88

BubbaJay said:


> Now that I've had a little over a week with the ZSR I can say while they're still a really nice IEM for the price they do have some faults.  There is some part of the treble that can sound a bit harsh and also just sounds off compared to the treble from better IEMs.  The mids can sound a bit thin at times as well.  The last thing is the fit isn't the best and the start to hurt my ears after a while which doesn't happen with some of my other IEMs.
> 
> For $30 I still feel it's a good deal for people wanting good SQ but don't want to spend much but if you can afford a more expensive pair I say go for it.  Compared to my Flare Audio R2A the KZ is a few steps behind.



usd$30 for a ZSN? that's quite expensive. Its usually usd$15 or so. Flare R2A was quite good (despite not liking the insertion depth), but its usd$150 or something? quite a few steps up from any KZ, tbh.


----------



## Gazd (Mar 14, 2019)

Just got my Zs7 earlier morning, have been listening for a few hours and I love it! Kz nailed it! I'm thinking about replacing tips because starline tips keep getting floated out of my ears and the seal is not that great. Maybe I'll listen to Slater and have the Jvc Spiral on it


----------



## mbwilson111

Zerohour88 said:


> usd$30 for a ZSN? that's quite expensive. Its usually usd$15 or so



I thought he was saying the ZSR was $30.   The ZSN is usually around$15.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Gazd said:


> Just got my Zs7 earlier morning, have been listening for a few hours and I love it! Kz nailed it! I'm thinking about replacing tips because starline tips keep getting floated out of my ears and the seal is not that great. Maybe I'll listen to Slater I have the Jvc Spiral on it



Enjoy! They need a little bit of time to burn-in, but they already sound great from the start. Do put spiral dots on them, they will sound so much better.


----------



## Zerohour88

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought he was saying the ZSR was $30.   The ZSN is usually around$15.



ah, gotcha, I misread. Thought after a quick search on aliexpress and shopee MY, seems the ZSR is already usd$20 or so.


----------



## mbwilson111

Zerohour88 said:


> ah, gotcha, I misread. Thought after a quick search on aliexpress and shopee MY, seems the ZSR is already usd$20 or so.



It is easy to misread with all these products with similar letters.

However there is often another issue.

It can be difficult in this thread and some others to keep track of what is being discussed.  I wish everyone would include the name of the product (even in a shortened form) in their reply because if someone replies to them without saying the name soon it will not be obvious what is being discussed.  

No one wants to read back several pages to figure it out.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> It is easy to misread with all these products with similar letters.
> 
> However there is often another issue.
> 
> ...



LOL, especially when this thread can exceed 5 pages in a day!


----------



## Slater

Gazd said:


> Just got my Zs7 earlier morning, have been listening for a few hours and I love it! Kz nailed it! I'm thinking about replacing tips because starline tips keep getting floated out of my ears and the seal is not that great. Maybe I'll listen to Slater and have the Jvc Spiral on it



You might just be using the wrong sized tip. It sure sounds like it. Try going down 1 size. So if you’ve been trying large tips, drop down to the medium.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> It is easy to misread with all these products with similar letters.
> 
> However there is often another issue.
> 
> ...



Good suggestion. That would be very helpful.

For example, “The _thing I was talking about the other day about the other one next to the red one? I sure am glad I didn’t make that mistake again!”
_
Everyone would be like What are we even talking about here?


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> You might just be using the wrong sized tip. It sure sounds like it. Try going down 1 size. So if you’ve been trying large tips, drop down to the medium.


I second this. Took me a while to figure out I just needed to go one size down. Now my tips stay locked in.


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my C10 ten minutes ago and first impression is that this C10 sounds really balance. Bass is kind of similar as ZSN in volume and presence if compared to ZS7; there is no sibilance in the treble and it sounds very smooth right out the box, but it has more treble energy than ZS7; mid is kind of same with ZSN, but more forward as ZS7 (ZS7 has a more fully bodied vocal sound than C10, while C10's vocal is a little bit thinner). This is just my initial open box impression and I can say this C10 is very good. It is very nice to have choices, if you like a more balance sound then go with C10, if you like a little bit more fun in bass then go with ZS7. Fit is extremely good (this C10 is basically a ZSN with more drivers), build is good, but I hope they give a metal nozzle like in the ZSN tho it just a minor thing. Will do more impressions and comparison with my other KZ (ZSN, ZS7 and AS10).


----------



## Podster

neo_styles said:


> I second this. Took me a while to figure out I just needed to go one size down. Now my tips stay locked in.



Too add to this every pair of iem's I've owned I've had to go through several tips to get the right one, of course Auvio's are my favorite and sometimes an iem works best with a medium and others it's the larges and every once in a while even they don't work but IMHO the correct tip is the single most important thing for getting the best seal and performance out of any iem


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> Have you tested to see if they are in phase?  Everytime something has been really weird to me it turns out that it is out of phase (which can be corrected).


I'll look into that. But considering all the other KZ's I have... (just ordered ATE-S and ED7). I doubt I'll bother checking. Thanks for the note, though.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Had a bunch of KZs come in. ZSE sucks about as much as I remembered. Veiled, congested, bleh... ZS3E is a bass cannon and a lot of fun. Really similar tune and performance to the ZS4 but quite a bit cheaper. Was hoping for something more "reference" but this is KZ after all. ZSE Special Edition is actually just the QKZ KD8 and by far and away a better product than the ZSE. Nicer plastics, better extension end-to-end, clearer and more detailed, larger sound stage, etc. Name something and the KD8 does it better. First time I've preferred the QKZ version over the KZ version, and in this case not by a small margin. For the ~6 CAD I paid the KD8 is pretty amazing. Pick up a set if you've missed DD only KZs. Lastly, the ZS7. Honestly a big disappointment. Lovely build as expected from KZ and I like the downplayed treble and mids, but wow is the bass completely overwhelming. At my normal super low listening volumes it completely takes over, and raising the volume to bring up the mids and treble just makes it worse. I don't think I've ever been tuckered out from too much sub-bass. ZS6>ZS7 any day of the week, imo.


----------



## theresanarc

loomisjohnson said:


> zs4 isolates like a mofo



Interesting, the ZS4 says it has 26 dB of noise reduction so that would be great for me to use on the bus. How's the soundstage? I'm trying to find a pair that's more bright than warm.


----------



## voicemaster

Here are some comparisons between ZS7 and C10:
-. ZS7 has more quantity in bass and impact
-. ZS7 has more forward vocal
-. ZS7 vocal is more "meaty?" (like shure vocal but not overly so)
-. C10 treble is more pronounce especially cymbals
-. C10 has a little bit of elevated mid bass 
Both IEMs has kind of similar sound signature tbh. I could go back and forth and not feeling any weirdness at all. It just a different tuning where one is more balance and one is more fun.


----------



## loomisjohnson

theresanarc said:


> Interesting, the ZS4 says it has 26 dB of noise reduction so that would be great for me to use on the bus. How's the soundstage? I'm trying to find a pair that's more bright than warm.


the zs4 is 15 bucks--i wouldn't overthink it


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Had a bunch of KZs come in. ZSE sucks about as much as I remembered. Veiled, congested, bleh... ZS3E is a bass cannon and a lot of fun. Really similar tune and performance to the ZS4 but quite a bit cheaper. Was hoping for something more "reference" but this is KZ after all. ZSE Special Edition is actually just the QKZ KD8 and by far and away a better product than the ZSE. Nicer plastics, better extension end-to-end, clearer and more detailed, larger sound stage, etc. Name something and the KD8 does it better. First time I've preferred the QKZ version over the KZ version, and in this case not by a small margin. For the ~6 CAD I paid the KD8 is pretty amazing. Pick up a set if you've missed DD only KZs. Lastly, the ZS7. Honestly a big disappointment. Lovely build as expected from KZ and I like the downplayed treble and mids, but wow is the bass completely overwhelming. At my normal super low listening volumes it completely takes over, and raising the volume to bring up the mids and treble just makes it worse. I don't think I've ever been tuckered out from too much sub-bass. ZS6>ZS7 any day of the week, imo.



I agree on the regular ZSE. Blech.

I see (2) different ZSE advertised as "special editions". Which one are you talking about?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Mar 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> I agree on the regular ZSE. Blech.
> 
> I see (2) different ZSE advertised as "special editions". Which one are you talking about?



The second one is actually a QKZ. The first is the same as the regular ZSE in terms of tuning, just the blue coloring makes it "special". That's the one I picked up since it was a little cheaper than the standard version.

Edit: Reason I know it's a QKZ is the plug and branding. Doesn't actually say QKZ anywhere. There was no standard KZ packaging either. They just chucked it into one of those big, plastic, padded KZ cases which was pretty awesome. It's a seriously awesome value. Picked it up here on the KZ Global Store.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> The second one is actually a QKZ. The first is the same as the regular ZSE in terms of tuning, just the blue coloring makes it "special". That's the one I picked up since it was a little cheaper than the standard version.
> 
> Edit: Reason I know it's a QKZ is the plug and branding. Doesn't actually say QKZ anywhere. There was no standard KZ packaging either. They just chucked it into one of those big, plastic, padded KZ cases which was pretty awesome. It's a seriously awesome value. Picked it up here on the KZ Global Store.



OK, so just to clarify, you got the blue one? That's how I'm reading your statement (ie "_That's the one I picked up..._")

Can you compare it to other KZ 2xDynamics - ZSN Mini, ZS1 v1, ZS1 v2, ZS2, etc? Better, worse?

Thanks!


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


>



 

ZSE special Ant Man edition @antdroid


----------



## antdroid

DynamicEars said:


> ZSE special Ant Man edition @antdroid



Hahaha! I guess I should get these!


----------



## Arsis

I recently got the Fiio K3. Tonight I tried the ZST with the balanced cable. Wow! Just wow! Smooth top, big round bottom and the middle was slightly recessed but not out of line. I can't believe that a $20 set of IEMs sound this good.


----------



## gbrgbr

I get a very good fit & seal with the ZSR; however with the ZSA I just couldn't. The ZSA would actually fall out with even a slight movement of my jaw.

I decided to see if using double flange eartip would help. They do - I get a good fit & seal. The ones I got :
- are not longer then the stock tips.
- do not insert deeper than the stock tips.
- have a wider bore 5mm.

I got them from the Trig Rain Official Store on AE.
Link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5mm-Original-Two-Layer-Silicone-In-Ear-Earphone-Earbuds-Ear-pads-covers-Eartips-Replacement-Headphone-Earplugs/32700128989.html

Pretty cheap, so if you have a similar prob try them out. The store allows you to choose diff sizes in the same order. I use the L ones, see pic below. ( Wonder what happens if you place a weird order like 5 L and 1 M, LOL ). The build quality of the eartips isn't that good.

I have also ordered the TENNMAK wide-bore eartips, btw.

I now use the ZSA with the KZ type-C DAC. Sounds much better, I did not care too much for the ZSA SQ before - it still doesn't come close to the ZSR. I still have to try the Slater ZSA mod, with micropore tape.

Recently I've seen ZSR listings for just 16.99 USD with AE Std shipping.

Stock vs Double Flange:


----------



## SybilLance

gbrgbr said:


> I get a very good fit & seal with the ZSR; however with the ZSA I just couldn't. The ZSA would actually fall out with even a slight movement of my jaw.
> 
> I decided to see if using double flange eartip would help. They do - I get a good fit & seal. The ones I got :
> - are not longer then the stock tips.
> ...



I'm willing to try these double-flanged tips. You mentioned their build quality as not so good. Would you say they're stiff, or soft?

Anyway thanks for providing the link.


----------



## gbrgbr (Mar 15, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> I'm willing to try these double-flanged tips. You mentioned their build quality as not so good. Would you say they're stiff, or soft?
> 
> Anyway thanks for providing the link.



They're very soft. Much thinner than the stock tip, almost flimsy, see pic below.

I also just noticed when taking these pics that the central tube in the double flange tips is located much below the 'base' flange. The same tube in the stock tip is actually higher than the flange. See pic.

btw, thanks for mentioning that the CCA C10 uses the KZ Para-A cables. I had asked some time back and no one answered.


----------



## Leo-rume (Mar 15, 2019)

gbrgbr said:


> They're very soft. Much thinner than the stock tip, almost flimsy, see pic below.


And just to add to this. I got these exact tips sometime ago and use them on my ES4 (medium size). They sound best with them, noticeably better than with the starlines on. I got a much deeper fit with these but surprisingly less isolation. I suspect that may be due to the nature of the material used. Yes, indeed, they are much thinner than stock, and really soft. In fact, so thin and soft to the extent that I start feeling the edges of the nozzles pressing against the inner walls of my ears after a while. This caused me a lot of irritation at first, but it got better over time, although still not ideal even now, but sound wise, I found them really good.


----------



## High on Ketamine

ES4 is a very good iem (for the price), especially for those who are treble sensitive like me. Before this I had ZS5 v1 but unfortunately I lost 1 earpiece, which kindof sucks because in the end it was by far the best iem ive ever had and it's hard to find v1. The es4 sounds dull and too intimite in comparison. Too much bass bleed and a lack of treble energy. Mids are OK but nothing special.

In the end nothing beats ZS5v1 for me right now. It sounds so much more complete and spacious and although I dont like too much treble this was just beyond words.
One thing to mention tho is that the stock cable is crap from ZS5. The copper/silver braided cables from Kz are way better in terms of sound than the old rubber cables. It really makes a difference. That said, ZSE and ZS3 both sucked imo and also the ES3 isn't worth buying.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> OK, so just to clarify, you got the blue one? That's how I'm reading your statement (ie "_That's the one I picked up..._")
> 
> Can you compare it to other KZ 2xDynamics - ZSN Mini, ZS1 v1, ZS1 v2, ZS2, etc? Better, worse?
> 
> Thanks!



Yes, I got the blue one. The KD8 would be akin to the ZN1 Mini. ZS1 v1 is a lot warmer and bassier. ZS3E would be more comparable to that, lol. Will find my Mini later and see how the KD8 stacks up. Regardless, for 6 bucks it's a really nice buy.


----------



## B9Scrambler

gbrgbr said:


> I get a very good fit & seal with the ZSR; however with the ZSA I just couldn't. The ZSA would actually fall out with even a slight movement of my jaw.
> 
> I decided to see if using double flange eartip would help. They do - I get a good fit & seal. The ones I got :
> - are not longer then the stock tips.
> ...



Those are great tips. Have quite a few pairs from other iems that came with them (or something very similar). Havi twins and a few of the ADVANCED iems include them. Will have to give them a shot with the ZSA and BA10 since they have a similar fit for me. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## majki84

My cca c10 are Flying for me and my girlfriend  can't wait. To avoid tax and customs in Poland I could only order Earbuds alone (there is no tax for products costing below 24 EUR and I paid like equivalent of 22,75 EUR on Aliexpress). Now I need to do some additional shopping. Can anyone remind me what foam tips size should I buy? 5 mm? Any suggestions for some cheap ones and a case? Do I need anything else? Maybe some Jack extension for my LG V30 to activate quad dac for these cca. Anyone have some and can recommend ?For now I'll skip the upgraded cable because I don't know how they sound on stock one. Anyone tried them with tidal hifi and can compare to Spotify premium (i subscribe it) ? Should I switch to tidal hifi for mqa files and flac (i have a good hearing) ?


----------



## Gazd

Ok been trying out my Zs7 and found out that the start line tips are not that bad it actually fit me well with the medium size. So I've been considering what should I upgrade the cable? The silver cable from kz. Is it make a huge difference in sound?


----------



## mbwilson111

Gazd said:


> Ok been trying out my Zs7 and found out that the start line tips are not that bad it actually fit me well with the medium size. So I've been considering what should I upgrade the cable? The silver cable from kz. Is it make a huge difference in sound?



I like the starline tips so much that I have bought bags of them( 30 for a dollar) on ebay and use them on many of my other iems.

Cables never make a huge difference to me.  I only change a cable if I hate the look of it or it is not comfortable.  Also if it is too long or short.


----------



## Gazd

mbwilson111 said:


> I like the starline tips so much that I have bought bags of them( 30 for a dollar) on ebay and use them on many of my other iems.
> 
> Cables never make a huge difference to me.  I only change a cable if I hate the look of it or it is not comfortable.  Also if it is too long or short.


Well the original cable isn't a huge trouble for me. Just looking for the sound upgrade


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> Well the original cable isn't a huge trouble for me. Just looking for the sound upgrade


It'll be negligible. Unless you're already running a TOTL DAP or have a really good source, I would just save the funds and put them towards upgrading those.


----------



## Gazd

neo_styles said:


> It'll be negligible. Unless you're already running a TOTL DAP or have a really good source, I would just save the funds and put them towards upgrading those.


Well you have a point! I'll consider it. I'm still a last year high school student so my budget is not that huge... But CA Orion is my dream right now haha


----------



## Gazd

I'm new to this but can someone explain me that hi-res audio sticker in some box of some earphones? What does it mean? And does the Zs7 have it the hi-res sound? Thank


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> I'm new to this but can someone explain me that hi-res audio sticker in some box of some earphones? What does it mean? And does the Zs7 have it the hi-res sound? Thank


It's a sales gimmick that they adopted for the Asian market. Wouldn't pay it any mind.
https://core0.staticworld.net/assets/2017/05/01/mdr1adacs_manual.pdf


----------



## Mouseman

Gazd said:


> I'm new to this but can someone explain me that hi-res audio sticker in some box of some earphones? What does it mean? And does the Zs7 have it the hi-res sound? Thank


I have a bunch of those stickers from various pieces of equipment. I should start selling them on eBay so everyone can "magically" make their headphones hi-res.


----------



## nraymond

Gazd said:


> I'm new to this but can someone explain me that hi-res audio sticker in some box of some earphones? What does it mean? And does the Zs7 have it the hi-res sound? Thank



It was a standard and certification introduced by Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) in 2014. Specifics can be found here:

https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en

While it's not a bad thing that something is certified, it doesn't necessarily mean much. The reason is that while there is some evidence that people physiologically respond to sound above the range of what they can hear as pure tones (young people typically hear up to 20kHz, and as you age you loose much of the ability to directly hear high tones, for men they start loosing the high frequency perception in their mid-30s, for women it's a little later), it's both tricky to capture high frequency sound (every mic, every mixer, every bit of recording and mastering gear has to be capable of and set up to preserve and pass along those high frequency sounds) and since sounds above 20Khz aren't directly perceived by people, without spectral analysis of the full frequency range who knows what's been captured in a hi-res audio file - maybe it's great, maybe it's got leftover high frequency noise as a side effect of some mastering/mixing mistakes. Things get even more confusing because the music studios have a tendency to remaster recordings when they release them in Hi-Res, so unless you personally take that Hi-Res master and then downsample it yourself to a non-Hi-Res format and then conduct your own double-blind tests on the right playback equipment comparing the various versions, you won't really know if the Hi-Res recording is better because it's captured and reproduced more of the frequency range or if it's better just because it's been remastered. I think the best candidates for recordings that might actually be worthwhile to have in Hi-Res are modern recordings of orchestras made from the beginning with the intention of being a Hi-Res recording, but I haven't done enough comparisons/tests to weigh in on whether I think it's really worth the bother (something I plan to try to do someday).

At the end of the day, it's one of those badges on a product box that can impress a casual consumer, and while in theory if everything you bought was Hi-Res certified you should be able to play back music with frequencies above the directly perceivable range, it would depend a lot on particular recordings whether there's anything of consequence in that expanded range. I wouldn't worry about it too much.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone compared the CCA C10 to the KZ ZS10 yet? I'm assuming the former is better as the latter is never spoken of?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Mouseman said:


> I have a bunch of those stickers from various pieces of equipment. I should start selling them on eBay so everyone can "magically" make their headphones hi-res.


I wear those Hi-Res stickers as earrings to show the world I have Hi-Res Hearing! It's not true that I can't hear my baby cry. I just ignore him.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> I like the starline tips so much that I have bought bags of them( 30 for a dollar) on ebay and use them on many of my other iems.
> 
> Cables never make a huge difference to me.  I only change a cable if I hate the look of it or it is not comfortable.  Also if it is too long or short.


You're right on the last account. However, the former E-Bay purchase is crappy "KZ" eartips that have no stretchable bottom.


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone compared the CCA C10 to the KZ ZS10 yet? I'm assuming the former is better as the latter is never spoken of?



b9scrambler made a review of them with comparison to the ZS10:

https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/03/14/cca-c10-smooth-operator/


----------



## B9Scrambler

Zerohour88 said:


> b9scrambler made a review of them with comparison to the ZS10:
> 
> https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/03/14/cca-c10-smooth-operator/



Keep in mind my tastes are weird and inconsistent


----------



## gbrgbr (Mar 15, 2019)

Slightly OT :
https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/...on-and-other-customer-data-easily-accessible/



> If you've purchased something from Gearbest in the past, you might want to start changing your credit cards — the company's main database was found to be completely unsecured....
> 
> Some of the accessible information includes emails, account passwords, IP addresses, birthdays, street addresses, payment information, and full names. The team was able to log into two accounts without effort. The exact content of each customer's orders are also visible. Gearbest's data management console was also accessible, meaning hackers could easily manipulate information on the site, disable sections of the company's servers, and even disrupt operations at Gearbest's warehouses.
> 
> It's safe to say that data breaches don't get much worse than this — it might be a good idea to stay away from Gearbest.



GB response


> However, our investigation reveals that *on March 1st, 2019, such firewalls were mistakenly taken down by one of our security team members* for reasons still being under investigation. Such unprotected status has directly exposed those tools for scanning and accessing without further authentication.
> 
> Currently, we believe this may have affected our newly registered customers as well as our old customers who *placed orders with Gearbest during the time from March 1st 2019 to March 15th, 2019*, in a total number of about 280,000. Fortunately, the irregularity has been fixed by us within two hours immediately after detecting it and we will further strengthen our internal security management to avoid such incident from happening again.


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> It was a standard and certification introduced by Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association (JEITA) in 2014. Specifics can be found here:
> 
> https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en
> 
> ...



I’ll also add that some products displays the logo or says they’re certified, when in fact it’s a flat out lie. It’s just being used try and fool people into buying it. Of course it’s illegal, but when has that stopped some of these unscrupulous companies (especially when they have no qualms about making counterfeit goods or gear that’s a total knockoff design of something else).


----------



## Podster

Nice Gearbest, got to love someone else being your pilot! 

So after several days I'm going to have to give props to these as they turned out to be more than I expected (cable is still crap even after removing the wanker wire but I've got a nice TRN coming to replace it) and once I got the spacer sleeve on the nozzle and right tips (Auvio Med.) they have really tightened up and are quite nice for an all BA KZ, with that said and for $76 I can see where KZ will be heading North of $100 soon but I'm sticking to my guns as $76 was a stretch for me from a budget Chi-Fi manufacturer. I will also admit I much (and still) prefer the metal bodied KZ's I'm thinking they made them look like little toasters because they are so warm and inviting


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 15, 2019)

Podster said:


> Nice Gearbest, got to love someone else being your pilot!
> 
> So after several days I'm going to have to give props to these as they turned out to be more than I expected (cable is still crap even after removing the wanker wire but I've got a nice TRN coming to replace it) and once I got the spacer sleeve on the nozzle and right tips (Auvio Med.) they have really tightened up and are quite nice for an all BA KZ, with that said and for $76 I can see where KZ will be heading North of $100 soon but I'm sticking to my guns as $76 was a stretch for me from a budget Chi-Fi manufacturer. I will also admit I much (and still) prefer the metal bodied KZ's I'm thinking they made them look like little toasters because they are so warm and inviting



+1, Pod.

Yep, I did the "spacer" mod as well to facilitate a wider soundstage. 

I'm definitely holding steady with my 8.5 out of 10 rating on these. 



 

Note: pull the memory wire from the cables and use silicone earhooks to keep the BA10 in place.


The BA10 sees regular rotation with my ZS6 along with my BQEYZ K2 and BQEYZ KB100.


https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ba10-knowledge-zenith.23310/

https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/kz-ba10-review-2998/


Also, a source with a low output impedance keeps the upper midrange and lower treble in check.


----------



## Damikiller37

My current portable setup  Pink/Purple combo is really growing on me this year. Switched to ZSN from my trusty ZS5 v1 and so far really enjoying it. Always surprised at what KZ can squeeze into these IEMs for the dirt cheap price.
Phone: Xiaomi Redmi Note 7 6/64gb Twilight Gold
Earphones: KZ ZSN Purple w/ SpinFit CP100 M size


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DocHoliday said:


> The BA10 sees regular rotation with my ZS6 along with my BQEYZ K2 and BQEYZ KB.


I look forward to more comparisons between BQEYZ and KZ. The K2 looks nice!


----------



## DocHoliday (Mar 17, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I look forward to more comparisons between BQEYZ and KZ. The K2 looks nice!



BQEYZ did let me know that there is more stuff in the works so comparisons will be made; we have much to look forward to.

The K2 does look good and it's built very well.

The CCA's are doing very well so KZ's new 8-BA release will be a pivotal point for them. Since the C16 has a more balanced approach perhaps KZ will give us a masterfully tuned sound "fun" signature ("U", "V" or "W" shaped). Hopefully they will e as well received as the C16, otherwise many might perceive CCA to be taking the lead.

To me this AS16/BA16?? looks like it might be an AS10 body with an "FH5"....ish faceplate and ZSN type 2-pin connectors. We'll find out soon enough, though.


----------



## Gazd

Does a music player app which support lossless file and with lossless music but without any dac, just play it on a normal smartphone improve the sound quality compare to a normal mp3 file?


----------



## DynamicEars

Gazd said:


> Does a music player app which support lossless file and with lossless music but without any dac, just play it on a normal smartphone improve the sound quality compare to a normal mp3 file?



as per theory it should be, but on blind testing 90% audiophile cant differentiate between FLAC lossless vs mp3 320kbps. You judge by yourself including is it worth taken up your memory storage space.


----------



## SybilLance

gbrgbr said:


> They're very soft. Much thinner than the stock tip, almost flimsy, see pic below.
> 
> I also just noticed when taking these pics that the central tube in the double flange tips is located much below the 'base' flange. The same tube in the stock tip is actually higher than the flange. See pic.
> 
> btw, thanks for mentioning that the CCA C10 uses the KZ Para-A cables. I had asked some time back and no one answered.



You're welcome.


----------



## HungryPanda

DynamicEars said:


> as per theory it should be, but on blind testing 90% audiophile cant differentiate between FLAC lossless vs mp3 320kbps. You judge by yourself including is it worth taken up your memory storage space.


It all depends on the flac level, I rip my CD's at level 8 and can tell a difference between 320k and flac


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## Gazd (Mar 16, 2019)

Which app should I use on Android for playing Flac lossless music? I don't really have any experience with this stuff. Always stick with my Spotify but now I want a step up!


----------



## HungryPanda

I use UAPP (USB Audio Recorder Pro)


----------



## Leo-rume

Gazd said:


> Which app should I use on Android for playing Flac lossless music? I don't really have any experience with this stuff. Always stick with my Spotify but now I want a step up!


Poweramp, neutron player, UAPP all take advantage of higher quality Audio files as well as external dedicated DACs. I personally use poweramp, mostly down to sentiments, but all 3 are recommended


----------



## Gazd

A friend offered me to trade the tin HiFi t2 pro for my Zs7 lol? Should I trade it? Considering the t2 pro is on the higher high tag. My genres are Edm Wich almost every kind of Edm and some pop. I like clear and a little emphasis on bass would be nice


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## Slater (Mar 17, 2019)

Gazd said:


> A friend offered me to trade the tin HiFi t2 pro for my Zs7 lol? Should I trade it? Considering the t2 pro is on the higher high tag. My genres are Edm Wich almost every kind of Edm and some pop. I like clear and a little emphasis on bass would be nice



If it was me, I’d just listen to them both and see which one you like better. We can’t really answer that question for you. Only you and your ears know what you and your ears like better.

Although I don’t have the T2 Pro, I do have the regular T2. The T2 and T2 Pro have the exact same bass (the only difference is the treble). For EDM, I prefer the ZS7 of the 2 because the ZS7 has more low end punch. I also like the fit of the ZS7 better than the T2. Don’t get me wrong, the T2 is an excellent IEM. But for EDM I like the ZS7 more.

But again, that’s me. Your ears and preferences are different. That’s why I’d listen to both yourself, on your source gear, with your music.


----------



## Gazd

Slater said:


> If it was me, I’d just listen to them both and see which one you like better. We can’t really answer that question for you. Only you and your ears know what you and your ears like better.


Well he invite me to visit his place and test out the t2 pro I mean why not haha!


----------



## neo_styles

Gazd said:


> A friend offered me to trade the tin HiFi t2 pro for my Zs7 lol? Should I trade it? Considering the t2 pro is on the higher high tag. My genres are Edm Wich almost every kind of Edm and some pop. I like clear and a little emphasis on bass would be nice


I would pass. The T2 Pro I received have a pretty brassy treble response that hasn't really gone away. The ZS7 are also much more comfortable in my ears.


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## BadReligionPunk

t2 pro might burn holes through your head.


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## LaughMoreDaily

Gazd said:


> A friend offered me to trade the tin HiFi t2 pro for my Zs7 lol? Should I trade it? Considering the t2 pro is on the higher high tag.


One reviewer mentioned the T2's sound like toys compared to the T3. It sounds like he knows it sucks and wants something much better.


----------



## LUCILLE667

Gazd said:


> Which app should I use on Android for playing Flac lossless music? I don't really have any experience with this stuff. Always stick with my Spotify but now I want a step up!


Most music player will play flac just fine, but Some android phones like my lg v20 automatically upsample music files from 44.1 khz to 48khz, which may creates unwanted artefacts on very sensitive iems (my v20 does this to my andromeda, less so on my other iems, but it's still there) . I know Neutron bypasses this by feeding the data directly to the DAC, but the interface is quite ugly though, IMO. For a nicer interface, I'd like to recommened blackplayer ex.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

After reading and watching some reviews of the AS10 vs BA10, the latter got burned heavily. Nobody seemed to like it.

Why do some of you guys like the BA10 so much and has the ZS7 beat it?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Mar 18, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> After reading and watching some reviews of the AS10 vs BA10, the latter got burned heavily. Nobody seemed to like it.
> 
> Why do some of you guys like the BA10 so much and has the ZS7 beat it?


I would not be entirely sure about reviews (spending a couple of months reading this forum, I started to pay less attention to reviews and read them altogether).

In my limited experience, BA10, having the same drivers as AS10, is close in sound but features a bit more extended highs and overall slightly more lively sound.
So sound-wise BA10 feels more mature  compared to AS10, while I am still OK with the warmer darker AS10, which is my daily driver for more than 6 months now.

The main problem of BA10 is in its fit - the size of the shell and its sharper corners  - a problem for any listener, including the reviewers.

I have relatively large ears and were able to fit BA10 decently with spiral dots (hard trials fitting ZS10 paid off after all!), still BA10 feels always there, comparing to AS10 and ZSN just disappearing.

I got BA10 for $55, and have absolutely no regrets for getting a second back-up to AS10 

I did not get ZS7 - CA10 was almost twice less expensive here, and I do not have any more interest in DDs.
I hope CCA will do multy-BA + piezo one day


----------



## Gazd

Zs7's soundstage and t2 pro's sound stage which is wider and which have a cleaner sound? I'm wondering


----------



## HungryPanda

ZS7 is V-shaped the T2 is more balanced


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> ZS7 is V-shaped the T2 is more balanced



+1

Totally different signatures. Both good for their respective signatures, but they should not be considered interchangeable IMO.


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## Mustache (Mar 18, 2019)

Kz can really put a better dac than the one on the iphone 5s just inside the lightning connector? Is the cable with included dac worth the buy? Or is there a portable and cheap DAC that is more worth it on the market?
For example, is this MUCH better than the iphone included dac? https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32851850208.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.34d05d96rCnfNr


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## Slater (Mar 18, 2019)

Mustache said:


> Kz can really put a better dac than the one on the iphone 5s just inside the lightning connector? Is the cable with included dac worth the buy? Or is there a portable and cheap DAC that is more worth it on the market?
> For example, is this MUCH better than the iphone included dac? https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32851850208.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.34d05d96rCnfNr



IPhone 5S audio is very respectable. Only use the lightning cable if your 3.5mm jack is messed up.

https://kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5s-audio-quality.htm


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## Mustache

Slater said:


> IPhone 5S audio is very respectable. Only use the lightning cable if your 3.5mm jack is messed up.
> 
> https://kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5s-audio-quality.htm


Wow! That's impressive! I'm now thankful for not buying the lightning cable. I have recently bought an ED16, a silver cable and some cheap foam tips. I will leave my feedback on those as soon as they get to me. Thanks for all your help guys!


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## Arsis

Hey guys, My ZS6, that I love, got broken. Quick opinion poll. ZS7 or ZS10? My current amp is a Fiio K3 with balanced cable.


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## stryed (Mar 18, 2019)

I took out my old KZ ZS3 that I considered a bloated mess which even the Slater mod could not save - although it did a lot of saving, bringing out some crunch of the mids and treble, albeit with a touch sibilance - it does somestuff right.
With large bore wide-bore on the L side of my spectrum, they are something I'd consider for commuting and movies/gaming.

The mold is really something to be re-investigated...It's a seal so tight it sucks out the whole breathable atmosphere but the bass thumps nicely with nice headroom in soundstage, similarly to my IT01. It makes me think that the KZ ZS4 might be worth looking into, or prompting KZ to add drivers into this soooOOOoo comfortable shape. They are IEM pyjamas.

I'd jump on a 5 or more BA/DD version of these as fast as I would get out of soggy sweaty socks.


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## buke9

Arsis said:


> Hey guys, My ZS6, that I love, got broken. Quick opinion poll. ZS7 or ZS10? My current amp is a Fiio K3 with balanced cable.


 I like the ZS10 over the ZS6 quite a bit more but have yet to get the ZS7’s as I’ve been put on the you can’t buy anything for awhile time-out by the wife.


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## BadReligionPunk

buke9 said:


> I like the ZS10 over the ZS6 quite a bit more but have yet to get the ZS7’s as I’ve been put on the you can’t buy anything for awhile time-out by the wife.


I experience that quite regularly.


----------



## buke9

BadReligionPunk said:


> I experience that quite regularly.


 But she did make my reservations for hotel and flight to CanJam SoCal for me and that is why I’m in time out and could be the TR-X00’s that she was not happy about me buying not for sure.


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 18, 2019)

Woah...the Opus#1 just showed up. Considering I took the AS10/E12a/A45 combo out today, I immediately swapped the sD card over to the Opus and popped in the AS10. Coheed & Cambria's _The Second Stage Turbine Blade _had the honors of being the inaugural album and I am honestly blown away at how different a representation the AS10s have on this DAP.

On the A45, they're a very warm affair. I was actually prepared to gripe here about how I thought the AS10's treble seemed excessively rolled off, but I'm getting it back here in droves. Now it's got a healthy extension, but stops just short of the point of being stabby. Midrange is completely cleaned up now and I'm hearing background vocals on tracks like "Delirium Trigger" that I had never noticed before. Bass is certainly thinner, but I attribute that to a faster decay. Everything's so much more spacious and authoritative. One negative, though: it seems to showcase a graininess to the upper registers that I'll have to further explore and make sure it's not just a product of the recording itself.

Can't write off the AS10 anymore, I suppose. It just needed the right player to really flex its muscles.


----------



## maxxevv

Arsis said:


> Hey guys, My ZS6, that I love, got broken. Quick opinion poll. ZS7 or ZS10? My current amp is a Fiio K3 with balanced cable.


I have all 3. 

In my listening preference, the ZS7 basically corrects for the shortcomings of the ZS6.  Deep, strong yet cohesive bass. Maintaining clarity of the mids and treble while projecting oodles of energy. 
Not as 'expansive' sounding as the ZS6 but its more coherent, more precise, 3 dimensional in its effect.  Although the treble energy is still there, it stops just short of the ZS6's sibilant character. Slightly rolled off comparatively and overall smoother sounding in the treble. 

The ZS10 has a different character. Its short nozzle and stubby casing can be an issue for some people. 
If properly sealed, its a warm, airy sounding piece that I can listen to hours without really noticing it. Well smoothed out treble that has no inherent sibilance issues.  Only issue is that there are complaints of crossover frequencies being not completely smooth, though I never ever noticed it. 

Between the 3, the ZS7 is the easiest to drive, the ZS10 the most power hungry.


----------



## gbrgbr

B9Scrambler said:


> ... ZS3E is a bass cannon and a lot of fun. Really similar tune and performance to the ZS4 but quite a bit cheaper. Was hoping for something more "reference" but this is KZ after all. ...



Could you please do  a mini review of the *ZS3E*?

I want to buy one for my young niece. She'll sure like the appearance and it does not have a BA so might survive some rough handling.

And, I don't think there is a single review of the ZS3E yet.


----------



## theresanarc

ZSNs....do these have a brighter and more forward sound than ZS4 and ES4s? I think I'd prefer that. They all seem to have very good sound isolation which is what I was mainly after.


----------



## Slater

theresanarc said:


> ZSNs....do these have a brighter and more forward sound than ZS4 and ES4s? I think I'd prefer that. They all seem to have very good sound isolation which is what I was mainly after.



If it's isolation you're after, you're likely not going to find anything more isolating than the ZS4 (or ZS3, ZS3E). Think of them like earplugs that play music! Seriously, you could use them at a firing range, which using a jackhammer, or outside on an airport runway and not hear anything going on in the external environment.


----------



## maxxevv

theresanarc said:


> ZSNs....do these have a brighter and more forward sound than ZS4 and ES4s? I think I'd prefer that. They all seem to have very good sound isolation which is what I was mainly after.





Slater said:


> If it's isolation you're after, you're likely not going to find anything more isolating than the ZS4 (or ZS3, ZS3E). Think of them like earplugs that play music! Seriously, you could use them at a firing range, which using a jackhammer, or outside on an airport runway and not hear anything going on in the external environment.



Depending on how well the shells fit your ears, to me the AS10 has pretty close to ZS4 isolation. More or less equivalent in my opinion. 
But not everyone has the same ear canal shape, so, results may not be exactly comparable.  

The AS10 definitely has a more forward mid-range but if you're going to use it as a beater, and not willing to spend more than US$20/-, then the ZS4 are your best option in the KZ line.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

maxxevv said:


> The AS10 definitely has a more forward mid-range but if you're going to use it as a beater, and not willing to spend more than US$20/-, then the ZS4 are your best option in the KZ line.


I disagree. The ZSN is a better option  and it's also the best fitting. The ZS4 being the worst.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gbrgbr said:


> Could you please do  a mini review of the *ZS3E*?
> 
> I want to buy one for my young niece. She'll sure like the appearance and it does not have a BA so might survive some rough handling.
> 
> And, I don't think there is a single review of the ZS3E yet.


Buy them for her and get her to write the review.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Arsis said:


> Hey guys, My ZS6, that I love, got broken. Quick opinion poll. ZS7 or ZS10? My current amp is a Fiio K3 with balanced cable.


ZS7.


----------



## maxdurak

Hello everyone. I got unlucky with my second pair of ZS10. A got exactly the same problem which is dynamic driver in right ear dying after few weeks of usage. Is this a known issue or am i just very unlucky. First one was purchased on gearbest and second was on aliexpress from so called "official kz store".
Another question - which IEM would be an upgrade for ZS10?


----------



## maxxevv

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I disagree. The ZSN is a better option  and it's also the best fitting. The ZS4 being the worst.



Of course, like I mentioned, opinions will defer based on what fits your ears the best. 

I don't own the ZSN  but I do have the ZS4 and the AS10.   And in my experience, the AS10 and ZS4 are the best in terms of isolation compared to the other KZ's I have owned. 

So in your opinion, the ZSN isolates as well or better than the AS10, which you seem to have ?  
If that's the case, then yes, the ZSN would be a better earphone to buy due to the almost equal prices and highly praised sound quality.


----------



## DynamicEars

maxdurak said:


> Hello everyone. I got unlucky with my second pair of ZS10. A got exactly the same problem which is dynamic driver in right ear dying after few weeks of usage. Is this a known issue or am i just very unlucky. First one was purchased on gearbest and second was on aliexpress from so called "official kz store".
> Another question - which IEM would be an upgrade for ZS10?



Sony Z1R, you will get super real upgrade..

Lol, any budget range? if roughly at the same price, you can try ZS7 for fun v signature, with more forward mids than ZS10, same 1DD + 4 BA drivers. If you want it more balanced, get CCA C10, a bit cheaper but so many good reviews about it. If you can stretch your budget, a lot of options above $100


----------



## maxdurak

DynamicEars said:


> Sony Z1R, you will get super real upgrade..
> 
> Lol, any budget range? if roughly at the same price, you can try ZS7 for fun v signature, with more forward mids than ZS10, same 1DD + 4 BA drivers. If you want it more balanced, get CCA C10, a bit cheaper but so many good reviews about it. If you can stretch your budget, a lot of options above $100


Yeah, been hearing a lot about CC10 here, already added to my wish list. Guess ill just go for it. Thanks.


----------



## Nimweth

maxdurak said:


> Hello everyone. I got unlucky with my second pair of ZS10. A got exactly the same problem which is dynamic driver in right ear dying after few weeks of usage. Is this a known issue or am i just very unlucky. First one was purchased on gearbest and second was on aliexpress from so called "official kz store".
> Another question - which IEM would be an upgrade for ZS10?


Almost anything! Lol


----------



## BadReligionPunk

maxdurak said:


> Hello everyone. I got unlucky with my second pair of ZS10. A got exactly the same problem which is dynamic driver in right ear dying after few weeks of usage. Is this a known issue or am i just very unlucky. First one was purchased on gearbest and second was on aliexpress from so called "official kz store".
> Another question - which IEM would be an upgrade for ZS10?



C10 is more coherent, more clean, more balanced then ZS10. ZS10 has much better staging, spacing and a much better soundstage. Both are smooth and both have considerable speed. I prefer the overall sound of the c10 by quite a lot. Enough to overshadow the strong technical of the ZS10.

That said, and I'm not trying to shy anyone away from KZ or this thread, but check out the BQEYZ thread and snoop around there. New company and they really have something going on there in the $40-$50 bracket. Really good stuff that I would call a step up.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I disagree. The ZSN is a better option  and it's also the best fitting. The ZS4 being the worst.



Don’t forget this depends on an individual’s ears.

ZS4 fits _you_ worse, but that’s won’t be the case for everyone. It actually fits _me_ better (like it was custom made for my ears).

Although the ZSN is still fits great.


----------



## snip3r77

looking at cheap ones?
sorry i can't see the price and may i know where to purchase them there is no link?
sorry for the trouble



hakuzen said:


> *DC resistance of some cables for KZs (below $40, approx.)* for KZ, in mΩ: left, right, groundL [, groundR] or L+, R+, L-, R- (balanced). ordered by resistance.
> for more expensive cables, mmcx, and others, check:
> *DC resistance of some cables (below 400mΩ, average)*
> 
> ...


----------



## hakuzen

snip3r77 said:


> looking at cheap ones?
> sorry i can't see the price and may i know where to purchase them there is no link?
> sorry for the trouble


i only provided some links (when not banned) in *DC resistance of some cables (below 400mΩ, average)* post. you can find some cables in both posts.
for the cheaper cables, they are very easy to find at aliexpress (many sellers, usually). didn't add prices, because they change continuously, plus coupons and sales discounts.. difficult to maintain.
when brand is not banned, it's added in the description of the cable, so you can use it in your search. if brand is not showed, then you know it's a banned one, probably.

not in my list yet, and not much conductive, but cheap, light and very flexible, decent plugs:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971728152.html (copper)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32973046302.html (silver plated copper)
both, also sold at another shop


----------



## Nimweth

maxdurak said:


> Hello everyone. I got unlucky with my second pair of ZS10. A got exactly the same problem which is dynamic driver in right ear dying after few weeks of usage. Is this a known issue or am i just very unlucky. First one was purchased on gearbest and second was on aliexpress from so called "official kz store".
> Another question - which IEM would be an upgrade for ZS10?


I was semi-joking on my last post, but the CCA C10 uses similar drivers to the ZS10 and is much, much better, especially in the treble where the ZS10 is harsh and peaky. ZS10 for me has bad fit, recessed mids and bass bleed. C10 suffers from none of these.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> If it's isolation you're after, you're likely not going to find anything more isolating than the ZS4 (or ZS3, ZS3E). Think of them like earplugs that play music! Seriously, you could use them at a firing range, which using a jackhammer, or outside on an airport runway and not hear anything going on in the external environment.



I bet I could still hear some of that... lol.  Now someone will try it to see.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I disagree. The ZSN is a better option  and it's also the best fitting. The ZS4 being the worst.



... for your ears.  Sometimes you forget that we are not all the same.


----------



## DynamicEars

BadReligionPunk said:


> C10 is more coherent, more clean, more balanced then ZS10. ZS10 has much better staging, spacing and a much better soundstage. Both are smooth and both have considerable speed. I prefer the overall sound of the c10 by quite a lot. Enough to overshadow the strong technical of the ZS10.
> 
> That said, and I'm not trying to shy anyone away from KZ or this thread, but check out the BQEYZ thread and snoop around there. New company and they really have something going on there in the $40-$50 bracket. Really good stuff that I would call a step up.



with respect to this KZ thread, im going to say the same.. +1 for BQEYZ, technically better and smooth


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I disagree. The ZSN is a better option  and it's also the best fitting. The ZS4 being the worst.



Maybe you gotz some whacky ears LMD as the ZS4 is probably the best fitting KZ I've ever owned and after 2 dozen pair of KZ's I feel seasoned enough to say that and also just because you think these babies suck does not mean they suck for everyone Keep in mind we all hear these babies differently I think the BA10's rock and that's even with a crappy M4A file


----------



## loomisjohnson

DynamicEars said:


> with respect to this KZ thread, im going to say the same.. +1 for BQEYZ, technically better and smooth


soundwise, i rate the zsn a wee tad ahead of the zs4 and a slightly bigger tad behind the bqeyz bq3. for fit or isolation, however, the zs4 works best for me


----------



## BadReligionPunk

My ears are goofy too.  I can't stand the fit of the zs3/4 shells.  A shame really because I liked the sound for reggae and hip-hop and they isolated like a mofo.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> My ears are goofy too.  I can't stand the fit of the zs3/4 shells.  A shame really because I liked the sound for reggae and hip-hop and they isolated like a mofo.



For some reason I also had a problem with the fit of the ZS3 but have not problem with the ZS10 and some others that people complain about.


----------



## Slater (Mar 19, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> My ears are goofy too.  I can't stand the fit of the zs3/4 shells.  A shame really because I liked the sound for reggae and hip-hop and they isolated like a mofo.



Any of you folks that have ZS3/ZS4 fitment issues ever try SpinFits?

SpinFits would allow more length due to the longer tips, as well as more anglular adjustment.

It might just be the difference between not fitting at all and fitting like a glove.


----------



## Zerohour88

maxdurak said:


> Hello everyone. I got unlucky with my second pair of ZS10. A got exactly the same problem which is dynamic driver in right ear dying after few weeks of usage. Is this a known issue or am i just very unlucky. First one was purchased on gearbest and second was on aliexpress from so called "official kz store".
> Another question - which IEM would be an upgrade for ZS10?



you might have a sweaty right ear that causes the DD to get wet and die? that's really a weird problem to have, I don't think anyone have such issues here (the BAs dying, sure, but only the DD, none I can recall)



hakuzen said:


> i only provided some links (when not banned) in *DC resistance of some cables (below 400mΩ, average)* post. you can find some cables in both posts.
> for the cheaper cables, they are very easy to find at aliexpress (many sellers, usually). didn't add prices, because they change continuously, plus coupons and sales discounts.. difficult to maintain.
> when brand is not banned, it's added in the description of the cable, so you can use it in your search. if brand is not showed, then you know it's a banned one, probably.
> 
> ...



I was tempted to browse the cable thread, looking for a cheap silver or silver-plated cable with no/minimal microphonics, I suppose the 2nd link would be the one you recommend?


----------



## hakuzen (Mar 19, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> I was tempted to browse the cable thread, looking for a cheap silver or silver-plated cable with no/minimal microphonics, I suppose the 2nd link would be the one you recommend?


you can find some details about cables, together with their conductivity, in my two lists.
the list of cables below 400mOhm resistance includes links, so you can get an idea of their prices. there are some decent cheap ones, but they are >$10-$15.
in the list of cables of cables below $40, you can find more cables below $10.

i don't own any of the cables i've linked in above post yet. but due to their structure, and plugs, they seem to be the best option around $10.
they are thin and probably very flexible, no microphonics, resistance around 250-280mOhm.
plugs look better than others in same segment price. but guess they'll be glued (it seems to be common practice in this cheap chinese cables lately).
if you read the caveats i've found with similar price cables, it's easy to figure these are the best option, even before receiving them.

about copper versus silver plated copper, it depends (i'm planning to get some of these for my stock of budget iems, and still in doubt which to choose). my experience with cheap silver plated copper was not good; i'm afraid they are tin or another alloy plated copper, and couldn't find any advantage then. but did some AB recently with two identical cables (same price, $55, same structure and conductivity) except wire material: copper vs silver plated copper. the resulting sound was noticeably different. warmer and thicker (bass) with copper, tighter and thinner (bass) with silver plated copper, and better mids and highs detail. guess it's true silver plated cable. i'll use the copper one with thin and bass shy iems, silver plated for thick bassy iems.
in the case of the cheap cables of the links, i don't know if there will be similar difference. can't know it before doing AB between them. i'll probably get silver plated ones, because most of my stock of budget iems are KZs (usually bassy, less or more recessed mids, and big highs roll-off, after ZS5/6).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Any of you folks that have ZS3/ZS4 fitment issues ever try SpinFits?
> 
> SpinFits would allow more length due to the longer tips, as well as more anglular adjustment.
> 
> It might just be the difference between not fitting at all and fitting like a glove.



I plan on ordering some when/if I order anything for the Sale. Its just about the only tip I don't have. Wouldn't hurt to have a pair or 2 for my tackle box.


----------



## SybilLance

hakuzen said:


> you can find some details about cables, together with their conductivity, in my two lists.
> the list of cables below 400mOhm resistance includes links, so you can get an idea of their prices. there are some decent cheap ones, but they are >$10-$15.
> in the list of cables of cables below $40, you can find more cables below $10.
> 
> ...



I've been looking at replacements for my KZ SPC upgrade cables, the flat-braided ones that are turning green. To be honest aside from the green color, specifically the uneven progression of the verdigris, I don't find anything wrong with them, audibly or otherwise. Lately however, I've somehow managed to convince myself that the flat 4-strand braid is too flat and hence ugly.  

As I've stated here many times, I find no discernible differences among my KZ cables, stock or upgrade, so I look for aesthetics (gorgeous, of course); ergonomics (preferably with a chin slider; soft and flexible, not prone to tangling and if it does, easy to unravel); and lack of "microphonics".

Still, _Conductivity_, which can be measured, remains the most important aspect to consider. This is why your updated databases on DC resistance of many common cables and other related posts are quite invaluable as guide. 

It would be pointless if all things cable were of equal standard and premium quality but sadly the reality is they're not, notably with regard to our most common cable source—China (with due respect to those who take great pains and pride in their products). As you, Slater and many others have shown, there's slipshod workmanship and inferior grade materials used internally (tin in lieu of copper, cheap solder, etc.) coupled with poor quality control. All of which could negatively affect cable conductivity and worse, could even be audible. 

There's this 16-core allegedly SPC cable from an unmentionable brand I think (not sure) that has caught my fancy and that I could get for ~$26 but then you mention that it has worse conductivity than some cheaper 8-cores and that the 2-pin version of its 8-core sibling has the wrong molded connectors for KZ. It's No. *055* in your list:






So I looked some more and came across this JC Ally brand of cables. Our local Shopee online mall has 3 stores that carry this brand and sell an 8-core SPC cable that's purportedly 5N pure for ~$7.28 (used to be ~$6.75) and that I could probably get for much lower with vouchers and coins. This particular cable has many color variants and many connector options including that for the KZ ZSN.

https://shopee.ph/thatgirl.ph/1880060446?smtt=0.0.9

https://shopee.ph/bangbangbang.ph/1991560631?smtt=0.0.9

https://shopee.ph/pengchenli01.th/1991556215?smtt=0.0.9

Are there any samples of JC Ally or similar-looking cables in AliExpress or elsewhere specific for KZ (2-pin, 75 mm) that you plan to test?


----------



## Podster (Mar 20, 2019)

Hey Sib, you should ask Slater if he'll take yours and do his chemical process to them and turn them black as they come out sweet

I mean seriously





I've actually got 3-4  maybe even 6 of those 16Cores but only in the black because I've been burned by too many silvers that unfortunately turn St. Patties Day on me

You know these bronze cables are still my favorite KZ cables rregardless of how thin they are the length especially from yoke to ear are absolutely awesome plus the bronze really sets of the anodized red KZ uses like on these sweet hearts


----------



## HAMS

Podster said:


> Hey Sib, you should ask Slater if he'll take yours and do his chemical process to them and turn them black as they come out sweet
> 
> I mean seriously
> 
> ...


Solvent dye just like on those plastic dye?


----------



## Podster

HAMS said:


> Solvent dye just like on those plastic dye?



Slater can probably tell you what he uses


----------



## BadReligionPunk

SybilLance said:


> I've been looking at replacements for my KZ SPC upgrade cables, the flat-braided ones that are turning green. To be honest aside from the green color, specifically the uneven progression of the verdigris, I don't find anything wrong with them, audibly or otherwise. Lately however, I've somehow managed to convince myself that the flat 4-strand braid is too flat and hence ugly.
> 
> As I've stated here many times, I find no discernible differences among my KZ cables, stock or upgrade, so I look for aesthetics (gorgeous, of course); ergonomics (preferably with a chin slider; soft and flexible, not prone to tangling and if it does, easy to unravel); and lack of "microphonics".
> 
> ...


I bought 2 of the JC cables.  Not sure I like them,  but that's me.  They are pretty thick and as such are very heavy to me.  They are a bit more stiff then the TRN cables.  They seem well constructed,  and they have a slider,  which helps me at work. I may need to try some nice 4 cores as 8 is probably to thick for me.  Can't even imagine 16 cores.  Be looking like LL Cool J back in the day wearing them dookie rope chains.


----------



## ostewart

Is there still anyone interested in the original ZS5? (the 1st revision) 

As I have one that I never use


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> I bought 2 of the JC cables.  Not sure I like them,  but that's me.  They are pretty thick and as such are very heavy to me.  They are a bit more stiff then the TRN cables.  They seem well constructed,  and they have a slider,  which helps me at work. I may need to try some nice 4 cores as 8 is probably to thick for me.  Can't even imagine 16 cores.  Be looking like LL Cool J back in the day wearing them dookie rope chains.



Actually my 16 cores are softer and more flexible than either my 4/6 & 8 core cables! Weight has never been a problem for me as I wear ALL my iem's over ear (and wear glasses)! These days I use my Radsone ES100 so much I can generally coil most of my cable leads up and put them in a top pocket as such (basically tucked away)


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Mar 20, 2019)

The problem I am having over ear is that the hot spot that never existed before is the top of my ear where the cables weigh down.

I feel like possibly,  I am a very sensitive guy.  Lol

So any sexy,  soft, lightweight and flexible 4 cores out there?


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> The problem I am having over ear is that the hot spot that never existed before is the top of my ear where the cables weigh down.
> 
> I feel like possibly,  I am a very sensitive guy.  Lol



LOL, kind of departing from your Avatar a little BRP


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yea. Testosterone loss after 40 is a thing... 

Pardon me,  my shows are on. Gotta go.


----------



## Podster

Isn't having a Testarossa a midlife issue


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> Solvent dye just like on those plastic dye?



Yes


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 20, 2019)

Been spending time with the ZS7 via Opus#1 today and can't say that I'm as favorable of the pairing as I was with the AS10. I'll give the caveat that I'm putting faith into reviewers' comments that the Opus#1 is a relatively neutral player, therefore allowing me to hear the headphones/IEMs more than the source. Granted, that may not 100% be the case, but it could justify some of the things I'm hearing.

On the Opus#1 and playing CDs I've personally ripped into 16/44 FLAC, I've noticed a lot of smearing in the treble. If anything, it reminded me of what I used to hear out of the ZS6 through sources like the Shanling M0 or Sony A45. Also, there's a weird dip somewhere in the lower midrange or upper bass that makes the overall sound signature seem a little hollow. These observations were done putting the #1 on Low Gain with a volume setting of about 85 (which is well below the max volume threshold), and stock M starline tips. Sense of space has gone up a bit compared to pairing the ZS7 with other sources, but in this case, I find the cons outweigh the pros. Can't really recommend this as a good combo, but YMMV.

To keep this from being a complete doom-and-gloom post, what little time I do remember in pairing the ZSN with the Opus#1 was significantly more positive. I'll go into more detail after spending a little more time with that combo; today just happened to put the ZS7s in front of me for consideration.


----------



## Slater (Mar 20, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> Been spending time with the ZS7 via Opus#1 today and can't say that I'm as favorable of the pairing as I was with the AS10. I'll give the caveat that I'm putting faith into reviewers' comments that the Opus#1 is a relatively neutral player, therefore allowing me to hear the headphones/IEMs more than the source. Granted, that may not 100% be the case, but it could justify some of the things I'm hearing.
> 
> On the Opus#1 and playing CDs I've personally ripped into 16/44 FLAC, I've noticed a lot of smearing in the treble. If anything, it reminded me of what I used to hear out of the ZS6 through sources like the Shanling M0 or Sony A45. Also, there's a weird dip somewhere in the lower midrange or upper bass that makes the overall sound signature seem a little hollow. These observations were done putting the #1 on Low Gain with a volume setting of about 85 (which is well below the max volume threshold), and stock M starline tips. Sense of space has gone up a bit compared to pairing the ZS7 with other sources, but in this case, I find the cons outweigh the pros. Can't really recommend this as a good combo, but YMMV.
> 
> To keep this from being a complete doom-and-gloom post, what little time I do remember in pairing the ZSN with the Opus#1 was significantly more positive. I'll go into more detail after spending a little more time with that combo; today just happened to put the ZS7s in front of me for consideration.



I’m convinced the Starline tips are not right for the ZS7 (and CCA C10) at all.

If you try wide bore tips, I’ll bet you’ll be much happier with the results. Generic wide bores (like for Powerbeats), Auvios, KZ or Tennmak Turbo/Whirlwind, SpiralDots, wide bore dual flange, etc.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> I’m convinced the Starline tips are not right for the ZS7 (and CCA C10) at all.
> 
> If you try wide bore tips, I’ll bet you’ll be much happier with the results. Generic wide bores (like for Powerbeats), Auvios, Turbo/Whirlwind, SpiralDots, etc.


I was thinking this after I wrote the post and the wider bore will most likely help a bit. Will have to check out when I get home. Chances are that the Auvios will provide a little bit of a fix.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> I was thinking this after I wrote the post and the wider bore will most likely help a bit. Will have to check out when I get home. Chances are that the Auvios will provide a little bit of a fix.



Yeah that’s basically what it is; a fix.

I mean, I don’t care what IEM it is, if you don’t like the tuning or something else bothers you about it, tips _might_ provide a fix (or it could be that particular IEM just isn’t your cup of tea).

For example, KZ looooooves to boost mid bass in their IEMs. It seems like that’s become part of their house sound. But a lot of people dislike mid bass bumps. So for those people, most KZs end up disappointing them.

Just like I dislike W shaped tunings (like the ED4). No amount of tip rolling is gonna change that.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Yeah that’s basically what it is; a fix.
> 
> I mean, I don’t care what IEM it is, if you don’t like the tuning or something else bothers you about it, tips _might_ provide a fix (or it could be that particular IEM just isn’t your cup of tea).
> 
> ...


The onus is mostly on me for being relatively satisfied with the ZS7 in stock form on players that were considerably more rolled off on the top-end, which was masking the issue. Now that the extra information's there, it'll allow me to "troubleshoot" and see if I can't bring it back to something my ears can better get along with. Not giving up yet.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Forgot to post this little ZS7 update here a few days ago.

'I was totally wrong about the ZS7. For whatever reason, it just doesn't pair with the XDuoo Nano D3. Updated it to the new firmware which fixed the screen issues so I could actually use it again. Been planning to revisit the old review so I've been using it on and off for the last couple days. For whatever reason, with the D3 the bass boosts through the roof. Tossed the ZS7 on this morning with the Shanling M0 while doing some chores and it sounded like a completely different earphone which is how I caught the problem. Doesn't do it with any of my other players, and I haven't had that issue with the D3 and any other iems. Also tried some other cables in case that was causing problems. Nothing. Only the D3 and ZS7 together. Really weird.'


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Couldn't make it more then an hour with the JC ally 8 core cable. Had to switch back to the OEM LZ 2 core cable, and my word what a huge difference. Its not the sexiest looking cable, but its light and sounds great.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

B9Scrambler said:


> Forgot to post this little ZS7 update here a few days ago.
> 
> 'I was totally wrong about the ZS7. For whatever reason, it just doesn't pair with the XDuoo Nano D3. Updated it to the new firmware which fixed the screen issues so I could actually use it again. Been planning to revisit the old review so I've been using it on and off for the last couple days. For whatever reason, with the D3 the bass boosts through the roof. Tossed the ZS7 on this morning with the Shanling M0 while doing some chores and it sounded like a completely different earphone which is how I caught the problem. Doesn't do it with any of my other players, and I haven't had that issue with the D3 and any other iems. Also tried some other cables in case that was causing problems. Nothing. Only the D3 and ZS7 together. Really weird.'



The Shanling are bass light, and output 80mw @ 32ohm. The D3 is bass neutral but outputs 250mw @32ohm. Its likely that the power is making that dd hit like a mofo. Or you have an eq preset on and forgot about it. 

Either way its amazing how different DAPs play with different IEMs, Earbuds, Headphones ect.


----------



## moee79

Just got my ZSN (silver/cyan) couple days ago from Amazon Canada. I really want to like them but I am so disappointed... especially because I bought them after reading all the rave reviews.

I have UE TF10, Nu Force NE7M, and ATH M50x, for reference. I love my TF10 minus the cable which has a new cable on its way. NE7M has its cable sleeve deteriorating after 10 years of heavy usage which is why I bought the ZSN, as its replacement as a beater.

Tried comply foams and different size tips, burn in tracks, different genres, but I just can't stand them... way too much untamed bass on some tracks and the sound staging is letting me down.

Is this the limitation of low budget iem or perhaps I have a lemon? 

I'm thinking of returning these tomorrow. Final Audio E1000/E2000/E3000 sounded like a good choice but I need isolation at work, so my search continues. Ordered a couple of Sony MDH-755's for fun from eBay, and other contenders for now are TinAudio T2/T2Pro/VSonic GR07. Any recommendations are welcome. Preferably under US$50, well balanced, somewhat neutral, slightly warm/bright, non-basshead, closed, no accessories needed, just sound quality and soft non-tangly cables.


----------



## B9Scrambler

BadReligionPunk said:


> The Shanling are bass light, and output 80mw @ 32ohm. The D3 is bass neutral but outputs 250mw @32ohm. Its likely that the power is making that dd hit like a mofo. Or you have an eq preset on and forgot about it.
> 
> Either way its amazing how different DAPs play with different IEMs, Earbuds, Headphones ect.



I actually feel the exact opposite about the M0 and D3  D3's low end rolls off disappointingly early. You can always find my review to understand how much I hate that thing. And if you heard how the ZS7 sounded through it vs. other players, you'd think there was something wrong. It's not a normal interaction, lol. Either way, I'm enjoying the ZS7 now which is the important part. Before I felt like I spent 50 CAD for a fancy shell.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

moee79 said:


> Just got my ZSN (silver/cyan) couple days ago from Amazon Canada. I really want to like them but I am so disappointed... especially because I bought them after reading all the rave reviews.
> 
> Tried comply foams and different size tips, burn in tracks, different genres, but I just can't stand them... way too much untamed bass on some tracks and the sound staging is letting me down.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I was hyping the ZSN a while ago and hope you didn't buy them because of me. 

I don't think I like them anymore either. I'm really disappointed in KZ. It seems like they are shooting out IEM's from their butts without the quality of past models like the AS10, etc. I heard the AS06 is even better?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

maxdurak said:


> Hello everyone. I got unlucky with my second pair of ZS10. A got exactly the same problem which is dynamic driver in right ear dying after few weeks of usage. Is this a known issue or am i just very unlucky. First one was purchased on gearbest and second was on aliexpress from so called "official kz store".
> Another question - which IEM would be an upgrade for ZS10?


AS10. Lol. I heard AS06 is even better. But no one's talking about it?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Two good reason not to buy the KZ BA10:


----------



## moee79

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Unfortunately, I was hyping the ZSN a while ago and hope you didn't buy them because of me.
> 
> I don't think I like them anymore either. I'm really disappointed in KZ. It seems like they are shooting out IEM's from their butts without the quality of past models like the AS10, etc. I heard the AS06 is even better?



I read so many reviews I wouldn't remember anyone's id, not that I would blame anyone... I guess this is how they actually sound? I read some reviews again and some of these traits are pointed out, but what got me was the fact that they all conclude this is a great sounding chi-fi bang for buck deal... Oh how deceived I was  

I hope Amazon takes it back...


----------



## MrMajony

moee79 said:


> Just got my ZSN (silver/cyan) couple days ago from Amazon Canada. I really want to like them but I am so disappointed... especially because I bought them after reading all the rave reviews.
> 
> I have UE TF10, Nu Force NE7M, and ATH M50x, for reference. I love my TF10 minus the cable which has a new cable on its way. NE7M has its cable sleeve deteriorating after 10 years of heavy usage which is why I bought the ZSN, as its replacement as a beater.
> 
> ...




Have you tried with another cable? I hated zst (cyan)
Until I changed the cable to the zst pro and the sound became more balanced and pleasant to my ears


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Couldn't make it more then an hour with the JC ally 8 core cable. Had to switch back to the OEM LZ 2 core cable, and my word what a huge difference. Its not the sexiest looking cable, but its light and sounds great.



8 wire cable, or 4 wire cable?

Why didn’t you like it? Too thick and beefy? Or some other reason?

It is definitely a beast of a cable, that’s for sure! I was thinking of converting my JC Ally 4-wire cable to use as a headphone cable (instead of IEMs).


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Unfortunately, I was hyping the ZSN a while ago and hope you didn't buy them because of me.
> 
> I don't think I like them anymore either. I'm really disappointed in KZ. It seems like they are shooting out IEM's from their butts without the quality of past models like the AS10, etc. I heard the AS06 is even better?



Which cable is on your ZSN? I seem to remember you have the silver plated cable, which I don’t have. I only have the stock bronze cable and the stock copper cable.

What made you change your mind? Did you change sources or genres? Because sometimes when I’ve been listening to a particular genre for a few days or a week, and then I totally switch genres while using this same IEM I’ll be like ewww.

It’s more of a laziness thing though; I have certain sonic tunings or particular IEMs that I use with certain genres. But if I already have something in my ears I may not want to go dig out the other earphones. So IEM x or y may not sound good, when in reality it’s not the IEM at all but rather just not a good match with what I’m listening to at the time.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 21, 2019)

Slater said:


> Which cable is on your ZSN? I seem to remember you have the silver plated cable, which I don’t have. I only have the stock bronze cable and the stock copper cable.
> 
> What made you change your mind? Did you change sources or genres? Because sometimes when I’ve been listening to a particular genre for a few days or a week, and then I totally switch genres while using this same IEM I’ll be like ewww.
> 
> It’s more of a laziness thing though; I have certain sonic tunings or particular IEMs that I use with certain genres. But if I already have something in my ears I may not want to go dig out the other earphones. So IEM x or y may not sound good, when in reality it’s not the IEM at all but rather just not a good match with what I’m listening to at the time.


I mainly use the stock cable on my ZSN. I find I get listeners fatigue and quite quickly. I prefer an IEM that I can use for everything like my AS10. I really dont want different IEMs for different genres. That's such a hassle and I prefer easy listening. The ZSN is good but to me is not what it was hyped up to be. If the ZS7 has the same problem when it arrives I may start dabbling in CCA, TFZ, and BQEYZ IEMs. Then again I should anyway... 75% of my KZ IEM's I could do without.

PS: I wonder if I should change the tips from the stock ones? Good idea.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I mainly use the stock cable on my ZSN. I find I get listeners fatigue and quite quickly. I prefer an IEM that I can use for everything like my AS10. I really dont want different IEMs for different genres. That's such a hassle and I prefer easy listening. The ZSN is good but to me is not what it was hyped up to be. If the ZS7 has the same problem when it arrives I may start dabbling in CCA, TFZ, and BQEYZ IEMs. Then again I should anyway... 75% of my KZ IEM's I could do without.
> 
> PS: I wonder if I should change the tips from the stock ones? Good idea.



Sure, try different tips and see if you like it better.


----------



## purplesun (Mar 21, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> AS10. Lol. I heard AS06 is even better. But no one's talking about it?


IMHO, Not better but just different enough from AS10 to cover the range of uses I have for them. With AS10 (on low-powered source, like AP80), it's my go to IEM when I bluetooth connect to my TV, as well as playing acoustic, pre-Y2K or lean-sounding music. With AS06 (on high-powered source), almost all modern electronic and pop mixes sound better to my ears than AS10. IMHO, the flaw with AS10 is reduced treble extension and, sometimes, overwhelming & slow bass, while AS06 has a big FR hole in the mids somewhere but impressively nimble mid/upper bass response. I use both of these more than anything else for past few weeks.

Side-note: Been mucking around with a Topping NX3s amp with AS06 & C16. This amp's definitely a keeper. Spatial sizing goes up a rung or 2. And adds some body to higher registers, which I thought was lacking in C16, while retaining the wonderful textures. Might get a few more NX3s as gifts as it's quite nicely packaged as well.


----------



## majki84

What is the tip size of cca c10? Foam tips T400 will be ok?


----------



## nxnje

majki84 said:


> What is the tip size of cca c10? Foam tips T400 will be ok?



Cca c10 nozzle diameter is 4.5mm so make sure you buy something with inner diameter that is around it.
The qkz t400 foam tips have 4.9mm inner diameter so it will fall off for example.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> 8 wire cable, or 4 wire cable?
> 
> Why didn’t you like it? Too thick and beefy? Or some other reason?
> 
> It is definitely a beast of a cable, that’s for sure! I was thinking of converting my JC Ally 4-wire cable to use as a headphone cable (instead of IEMs).


Yea 8. Was to stiff and heavy. Hurt the top of my ears only after a few minutes. They just did not jive at all with the Semkarch at all. Put the other one on my C10, so will see how that one works out.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea 8. Was to stiff and heavy. Hurt the top of my ears only after a few minutes. They just did not jive at all with the Semkarch at all. Put the other one on my C10, so will see how that one works out.



I have the 4-wire cable, but I’ve been eyeing the 8-wire one. I guess I’ll forget about that one now.


----------



## maxxevv

These NiceHCK 8-cores are really nice in my opinion though. 
Probably not the best if you are walking about due to the bulk. But they are really very nice and measure very well.


----------



## mbwilson111

maxxevv said:


> These NiceHCK 8-cores are really nice in my opinion though.
> Probably not the best if you are walking about due to the bulk. But they are really very nice and measure very well.



With that type of cable the bulk that bothers me is the part that goes over the top of my ear.  My ears are very flat to my head and there is no room for a cable that thick ... it hurts.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> With that type of cable the bulk that bothers me is the part that goes over the top of my ear.  My ears are very flat to my head and there is no room for a cable that thick ... it hurts.



That’s why I go ahead and remove that outer ear guide sheath when I get thicker cables now. It cuts the overall thickness of the cable by 30-40%. And the upgrade cables are still heavy enough that it stays in place around my ears without the need for ear guides at all. Removing the ear guide also makes the cable ‘softer’, because the wire insulation is softer and more flexible than the rubber used for the ear guide (which is a bit stiffer material so it can hold its shape).


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 21, 2019)

Well, @Slater was right as usual. The Auvios were exactly what was needed to get the ZS7 singing again. No weird dips, highs aren't brassy, and I'm happy again.

One of my coworkers also just got his ZS7 in (same guy who'd bought the ES4 off me). His words, not mine: _these are never coming out of my ears_. I think he likes 'em.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Damn.  That Slater dude is on a good streak right now.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Well, @Slater was right as usual. The Auvios were exactly what was needed to get the ZS7 singing again. No weird dips, highs aren't brassy, and I'm happy again.
> 
> One of my coworkers also just got his ZS7 in (same guy who'd bought the ES4 off me). His words, not mine: _these are never coming out of my ears_. I think he likes 'em.



Glad they worked out for you!

You know, sadly KZ used to include the wide bore Turbo tips on some of their stock IEMs. They don’t anymore, yet they still make the tips because you can still order them. The wide bores really help a number of IEMs, especially ones with wide nozzles like ED9, ZST, ZSR, ZS5, ZS6, ZS7, and others.

I definitely love the Starline tips on most of my IEMs, so I don’t think they should stop including them. But I really wish they would also include a set of wide bore tips. One of the things KZ is always dinged on in reviews is the sparse accessories, so throwing in a SML set of additional tips would go a long way to pleasing people. I mean, it would cost them about $0.25 per set extra to include them.

Personally, I think on the flagship IEMs like BA10, AS10, etc and the premium CCA brand (C10, C16, C20) they should include these things for sure:

1. 1 pair of generic Comply type foam tips (NOT the crappy hard foam like the ATE had). Like the TinAudio T2 has
2. SML set of Whirlwinds
3. SML set of Starlines
4. The 8-wire gold/silver upgrade cable (the one that looks like the TRN one only thinner), instead of the thin cable they normally include.
5. Their square EVA foam case, or even their ABS waterproof case

They already manufacture every single one of these items, so it wouldn’t be any extra tooling or work on their part.

I think since the price of these higher tier models has slowly been creeping to $70-$100+, those few dollars worth of extra accessories would make a world of difference for their image and also their usability by the customer.


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Glad they worked out for you!
> 
> You know, sadly KZ used to include the wide bore Turbo tips on some of their stock IEMs. They don’t anymore, yet they still make the tips because you can still order them. The wide bores really help a number of IEMs, especially ones with wide nozzles like ED9, ZST, ZSR, ZS5, ZS6, ZS7, and others.
> 
> ...


The amount of value that would add to the package is pretty insane, if you think about it, and really makes you wonder if they just haven't thought about it or they're being stingy in some way. I'd probably end up re-ordering any sets they did this with, if only to show my support. KZ, if you're listening...wink wink nudge nudge.


----------



## assassin10000

majki84 said:


> What is the tip size of cca c10? Foam tips T400 will be ok?





nxnje said:


> Cca c10 nozzle diameter is 4.5mm so make sure you buy something with inner diameter that is around it.
> The qkz t400 foam tips have 4.9mm inner diameter so it will fall off for example.



I just got all of the generic foams in and measured them. Looks like you need T200. T300 may fit too if T200 seems loose, it just has a narrower bore.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/page-32#post-14838736


----------



## majki84

Thx a lot! That's pretty weird that t300 is smaller then t200. Is this correct?


----------



## assassin10000

majki84 said:


> Thx a lot! That's pretty weird that t300 is smaller then t200. Is this correct?



It is. Small big small big lol.


----------



## hakuzen

SybilLance said:


> I've been looking at replacements for my KZ SPC upgrade cables, the flat-braided ones that are turning green. To be honest aside from the green color, specifically the uneven progression of the verdigris, I don't find anything wrong with them, audibly or otherwise. Lately however, I've somehow managed to convince myself that the flat 4-strand braid is too flat and hence ugly.
> 
> As I've stated here many times, I find no discernible differences among my KZ cables, stock or upgrade, so I look for aesthetics (gorgeous, of course); ergonomics (preferably with a chin slider; soft and flexible, not prone to tangling and if it does, easy to unravel); and lack of "microphonics".
> 
> ...


yes, JC Ally cables can be found in some shops at AE. Blue shield electronic technology, Tiandirenhe shops (various), Fangcao Garden Store..
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955789068.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957866213.html
i've ordered a dark blue one, but 4 thick cores version. it will arrive next week probably. but the jacks are the same than trn thick cheap cables (didn't like them).
if you don't mind the color, there is a good price at 28.03 sales for these cables:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32973046302.html (spc, black)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971785145.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32971728152.html (copper, brown)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32974695270.html


----------



## Podster

hakuzen said:


> yes, JC Ally cables can be found in some shops at AE. Blue shield electronic technology, Tiandirenhe shops (various), Fangcao Garden Store..
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955789068.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957866213.html
> i've ordered a dark blue one, but 4 thick cores version. it will arrive next week probably. but the jacks are the same than trn thick cheap cables (didn't like them).
> ...



I've got all of these Haku with exception of the copper brown one (things just a ugly color on anything except a pile of Cow dung) LOL As mentioned in my other post my 16 cores silver or black are much more supple and pliable than these 8 cores however they are also twice as much! Then again if you really really love your iem they are worth the price IMO

That @Slater  Dude, I tell ya he knows his tips or was that he has good tips You know the Pod loves him some Auvio's and they really do a great job but no tips work if I don't regularly chop down the forest that seems to grow back every two weeks in my ear canals and you should always clean them and your tips with alcohol/peroxide regularly as well


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Sure, try different tips and see if you like it better.


What tips do you prefer with the ZSN?


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What tips do you prefer with the ZSN?



Auvios or Whirlwind/Turbo. It seems to smooth out the treble. The ZSN can be a tad on the harsh side when used with the included tips or Starlines. Of course YMMV, but that’s just what I’ve found.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Auvios or Whirlwind/Turbo. It seems to smooth out the treble. The ZSN can be a tad on the harsh side when used with the included tips or Starlines.


Cool. I have the Tennmak Whirlwind. Would it be considered the same as Auvio or similar? I'll let you know what I think tomorrow.


----------



## Gazd

I tried the Tin HiFi t2 pro yesterday. They sounded fine I mean. Airy great mid but for me the Zs7 Is better. I'm going to keep my Zs7


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Gazd said:


> I tried the Tin HiFi t2 pro yesterday. They sounded fine I mean. Airy great mid but for me the Zs7 Is better. I'm going to keep my Zs7


Always keep the KZ! People are saying the ZS7 is the best model so far and I wonder if it lives up to the hype? How does it stand against CCA, BQEYZ, and TFZ?


----------



## Gazd

Anyone have any ideas to protect the zs7 from scratches? Specially the edges of it which is very fragile and it's very easy to scratch. I'm planning to use tape and stick it around the edges


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Gazd said:


> Anyone have any ideas to protect the zs7 from scratches? I'm planning to use tape and stick it around the edges


Cover it in painter's tape for a nice green protected appearance.


----------



## Gazd

P


LaughMoreDaily said:


> Cover it in painter's tape for a nice green protected appearance.


Do you have any images of the earphones with it?


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Cool. I have the Tennmak Whirlwind. Would it be considered the same as Auvio or similar? I'll let you know what I think tomorrow.



They’re not exactly the same, but they’re both wide bore. So the Whirlwind are close enough to see if you like the sound better. 

Auvios:

Have a smaller center core, so they fit a little tighter
The shape and overall size is more similar to the KZ Starlines.
Are longer, putting the nozzle output further from your ear drum
Allow for a little deeper insertion (but YMMV depending on ear anatomy)

Whirlwind:

More mushroom shape
Center core a little larger, so it will fit a little looser on some IEMs
Physically shorter, so they will sit down lower on the nozzle.
A little shallower insertion (but YMMV depending on ear anatomy)


----------



## Slater (Mar 22, 2019)

Gazd said:


> Anyone have any ideas to protect the zs7 from scratches? Specially the edges of it which is very fragile and it's very easy to scratch. I'm planning to use tape and stick it around the edges



A storage case is probably the best way. If you just ball them up and jam them in your pocket with pocket change and car keys, they’re going to get scratched to heck. Not to mention be a tangly mess.

I keep all my IEMs in storage cases, and they all pretty much look as new as the day I took them out of the box. You can buy them for a dollar or 2.

The larger square KZ one is perfect for the ZS7. The oval TRN ones work awesome as well (they’re a little bigger, which work best if you have a thicker upgrade cable installed like the 8-wire TRN). You can’t go wrong with either.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/PReWyHi

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cO02lcLI


----------



## Nimweth

I have three unwanted KZs: ES3, ZS10 and ZS4. If anyone would like them, perhaps in exchange for a nice 2-pin cable, you can PM me.


----------



## TreehornJackie

Hi,
New owner of a black ZSN here and I am already on the hype side. For 14$ there is a lot of value here.
Reading the previous posts I don't see how the ZSN highs are harsh. 
I find the 3k area to be clearly louder but the highs are not that emphasized (still above neutral though). 
By comparison the ATE are trebble cannons. Not to mention the unmodded ZS6.
All in all i am very happy with the purchase. Have a ZS4 and ZSR on the way (bought them for the isolation although ZSN are doing surprisingly good too).
Cheers.


----------



## neo_styles

TreehornJackie said:


> Hi,
> New owner of a black ZSN here and I am already on the hype side. For 14$ there is a lot of value here.
> Reading the previous posts I don't see how the ZSN highs are harsh.
> I find the 3k area to be clearly louder but the highs are not that emphasized (still above neutral though).
> ...


I think it's also source-dependent as well as a factor of insertion depth. Would agree with you that they're not stabby in the least and, so far, seem to provide the best IEM match for my Opus#1 in terms of balance. Glad you're happy with them!


----------



## Gazd

I know this is not Kz related but what if the Audio Technica Ath Cks99 compared to my Kz zs7? Which would be better? I know that the Cks99 have been on the market for quite a time but I still think it's competitive enough


----------



## Slater

Does anyone know where the rumor that ZSN are treble canons, have piercing treble, etc started?

Because it seems all the sudden people are coming out of the woodwork mentioning it.

And it is not true at all.


----------



## SybilLance

Podster said:


> Hey Sib, you should ask Slater if he'll take yours and do his chemical process to them and turn them black as they come out sweet
> 
> I mean seriously
> 
> ...



LOL! Actually I love green. It's just that the verdigris progression is patchy, not uniform. I don't like to wait months...



BadReligionPunk said:


> I bought 2 of the JC cables.  Not sure I like them,  but that's me.  They are pretty thick and as such are very heavy to me.  They are a bit more stiff then the TRN cables.  They seem well constructed,  and they have a slider,  which helps me at work. I may need to try some nice 4 cores as 8 is probably to thick for me.  Can't even imagine 16 cores.  Be looking like LL Cool J back in the day wearing them dookie rope chains.





Podster said:


> Actually my 16 cores are softer and more flexible than either my 4/6 & 8 core cables! Weight has never been a problem for me as I wear ALL my iem's over ear (and wear glasses)! These days I use my Radsone ES100 so much I can generally coil most of my cable leads up and put them in a top pocket as such (basically tucked away)



I believe the JC Ally 4-core cable is just as thick as the 8-core ones. The strands of the latter are thinner. There's this "JC Ally Bold 4-core" that's really thick and would look quite at home with large over-ear headphones.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I mainly use the stock cable on my ZSN. I find I get listeners fatigue and quite quickly. I prefer an IEM that I can use for everything like my AS10. I really dont want different IEMs for different genres. That's such a hassle and I prefer easy listening. The ZSN is good but to me is not what it was hyped up to be. If the ZS7 has the same problem when it arrives I may start dabbling in CCA, TFZ, and BQEYZ IEMs. Then again I should anyway... 75% of my KZ IEM's I could do without.
> 
> PS: I wonder if I should change the tips from the stock ones? Good idea.



I think it's time for you to get the C10. 



BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea 8. Was to stiff and heavy. Hurt the top of my ears only after a few minutes. They just did not jive at all with the Semkarch at all. Put the other one on my C10, so will see how that one works out.



The black & white JC Ally 8-core is what I have on the C10. Posted a pic of it in the CCA thread. Seems ok.



hakuzen said:


> yes, JC Ally cables can be found in some shops at AE. Blue shield electronic technology, Tiandirenhe shops (various), Fangcao Garden Store..
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32955789068.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32957866213.html
> i've ordered a dark blue one, but 4 thick cores version. it will arrive next week probably. but the jacks are the same than trn thick cheap cables (didn't like them).
> ...



Yes, those bold blue 4 cores are really thick. Was thinking they would be great with my HE-400i, if converted. 

Anyway, I asked a local store here at Shopee.ph that sells that Y**** 16-core cable (at a much cheaper price than even in AliExpress) if it has a chin slider. I didn't get any reply, so I told them I'll just buy from others. What I did buy were 3 of those 8-core JC Ally SPC cables, for a total of only ₽855 ($16.25), using my vouchers and coins. That's just ₽285 or $5.42 per cable. And I get a free case for each. Very good bargain, don't you think?


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Does anyone know where the rumor that ZSN are treble canons, have piercing treble, etc started?
> 
> Because it seems all the sudden people are coming out of the woodwork mentioning it.
> 
> And it is not true at all.



Im stand with @Slater here. maybe some people can't differentiate high mids and highs. ZSN treble is well controlled, they got peak at 2.5-3khz but not with trebles, its different case with sibilances on ZS6


----------



## TreehornJackie (Mar 22, 2019)

My response was based on what i read on the last page. Slater mentioned that the ZSN may sound harsh with the stock tips and Laughmoredaily discussed with him on the tip options for a better sound. I personally only said that in my experience they are not harsh. So treble cannons or piercing treble would be out of the question for me. I hope I didn't create any confusion. I really like these iems.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> Does anyone know where the rumor that ZSN are treble canons, have piercing treble, etc started?
> 
> Because it seems all the sudden people are coming out of the woodwork mentioning it.
> 
> And it is not true at all.


I'd definitely say they lean bright rather than dark and the treble's not as *quite* good as it could be (feels "kinda' like it was compensating for having stretched not-quite-enough-treble to cover everything" to quote myself) but treble cannons?  Nah.  They're not as bright as I (vaguely) recall the AD-700x being when I tried it out for a few days before returning it for fit reasons.


----------



## SybilLance (Mar 22, 2019)

Guess it's a good thing I'm still awake and, not feeling particularly sleepy started reading the last couple of posts. Most interesting. 

With all due respect, and to be fair, I don't think there's such a rumor about the KZ ZSN being "treble cannons" or having "piercing treble". And to be accurate, nowhere in the last 30-odd pages was there any exact mention of "treble cannons" or "piercing treble" in reference to the ZSN. The word most commonly mentioned is "harsh".

Perhaps someone or some people in the other Chi-Fi threads may have unknowingly, or inadvertently, with a stray word or phrase, started the impression there's one?

Anyway...

Towards the end of December of last year I think, it was blur.png who openly stated his dislike of the ZSN, but a perspicacious reading of that post of his would show that his antipathy towards the ZSN is specific to its harsh vocals and "leading instruments", that it is "too vocal focused":



blur.png said:


> its seems like im the only one here who hates the ZSN, *for my type of music & listening volume its just too much, too harsh on the vocals & leading instrument (highs?)*, even after a week of burn in, ill be honest, id take the ZS6 "piercing highs" all day compared to the ZSN, and based on memory, the CK8 and ZSN have _similar_ sound sig, they are *too vocal focused* which isnt my type what iem should i avoid then if i hate the ZSN, could be from any chi-fi brand so i dont fall to the same pit again



Then rambomhtri mentioned about the ZSN's "slightly annoying highs/treble":



rambomhtri said:


> Holy Heaven!
> I've just received a pair of 2nd generation KZ ZSN and I can totally say that the KZ ZS7 are better, noticeable better. The KZ ZSN have even *slightly annoying highs/treble*. I've bought them as a gift to a friend and also because they are so famous here and wanted to try them out, but I'm glad I purchased for myself the KZ ZS7 because I can say there's a clear big difference between the two. If you can go for the KZ ZS7, just go for them. The ZSN have the professional look and quality, may be they are more ergonomic and comfortable for some people, but in terms of sound I just got a little upset. I was expecting a very similar sound quality to the KZ7, almost unnoticeable difference; sad but true, they sound worse.



Then several days ago blur specifies that:



blur.png said:


> imo ZSN fits more on DNB, *on high vocals or electric guitar zsn treble is slightly overwhelming, like the zs6 harsh peaks but on a lower freq, its just a very energetic sounding earphone*



Right after that blur again referred to the ZSN—jointly with the ZS6—as harsh:



blur.png said:


> ES4, cant hear anything harsh with them, it has good bass not sure about other models, *but imo avoid ZSN & ZS6 if you dont like "harsh"*



Then blur on his own admitted that the ZSN sounds harsh on his phone but sounds great in another phone and that he now enjoys his ZSN from a decent source and a TRN cable because it seems the treble is softened:



blur.png said:


> i *found out how to enjoy my ZSN, a decent source (any phone with a dedicated dac will do) and a trn cable*, *it seems to soften the treble for some reason my phone makes it sounds harsh yet my galaxy camera makes it sounds great never knew cables would make that much of a difference*



Thereafter HAMS said he prefers his sister's rock zircon over the ZSN since the former's mids and highs are smoother with no weird peaks he could hear when he EQs down the bass:



HAMS said:


> *Just listened my sister's rock zircon, they're surprisingly decent I prefer it over ZSN lol. Mids and highs are smoother, no weird peaks I can hear when I EQ down the bass*.



moee79 also posted he is so disappointed with the ZSN because he "just can't stand them" for having "way too much untamed bass" and the sound staging is letting him down:



moee79 said:


> Just got my ZSN (silver/cyan) couple days ago from Amazon Canada. I really want to like them but I am so disappointed... especially because I bought them after reading all the rave reviews.
> 
> I have UE TF10, Nu Force NE7M, and ATH M50x, for reference. I love my TF10 minus the cable which has a new cable on its way. NE7M has its cable sleeve deteriorating after 10 years of heavy usage which is why I bought the ZSN, as its replacement as a beater.
> 
> ...



Lastly LaughMore simply said he didn't like the ZSN anymore. He did not however clearly and unequivocally mention the reason why, if it was because of any unflattering characteristic in the ZSN's sound signature or presentation or manner of reproducing the music that he listens to.

Indeed, there's no "rumor"—which is hearsay or gossip, a mixture of truths and untruths passed around. There are, however, at least four (4) head-fi members who have openly stated their dislike or negative impressions of the ZSN and who have also given their particular reasons why.

To reiterate, the exact terms "treble cannons" and "piercing treble" which in our milieu have their own unique pejorative connotation were never mentioned at all.

Those who have expressed their displeasure with the ZSN and its sound are surely entitled to their opinions; it is, after all, the essence of that which we often like to quote: YMMV.

For the record, I love my purple ZSN. Yes, the proximity of its presentation—notably in the middle registers—may be a bit overzealous with regard to certain music. But I don't think it borders on harsh. I also don't think its treble is strident. I do agree it is one very energetic in-ear headphone.

That's it. Now I'm sleepy. Peace, my KZ Friends.


----------



## HAMS

Zsn piercing? No for me, in comparison tin audio t2 is way way more piercing. Zsn is peaks and dips pretty normal for budget chifi.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I love ZSN. Cant and don't listen to it all the time, but when I do I make it Dos Equis. 

They are my go to Punk rock, Garage rock, Just plain rock and freaking roll rock iems. Treble can get a bit fizzy, but I don't let it bother me. 

$14 

WIN!


----------



## AlexaCl

Hey! What would you advise, for a smartphone on 660 snap (mi 8 lite) is it worth taking cca c10 ($ 15), as 06 ($ 15) or as10 ($ 23)? Or zsn ($ 8) will be enough? I’m looking for balanced in-ear headphones, because I’m listening different genres, before that I didn’t have headphones that cost more than $ 15 to form preferences.     
P.S.Ahead of questions about prices: they are available only for Russia, my friend will send them to me


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> They’re not exactly the same, but they’re both wide bore. So the Whirlwind are close enough to see if you like the sound better.
> 
> Auvios:
> 
> ...


I don't have Auvios and Whirlwinds didn't work with my ZSN. However, JVC Spiral Dots worked perfectly. So far so good. They have brought the ZSN back from the garbage bin I pulled them out of.  Thanks for the suggestion.

I also put my Zircon tips with the black core on my AS10 and it gives them a lot more definition and sparkle than the stock tips. Have you or anyone else tried this combo?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> I think it's time for you to get the C10.


Wouldn't it be better value for me to buy the CCA C16 since I already have a ZSN, AS10 and ZS7 on the way?


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't have Auvios and Whirlwinds didn't work with my ZSN. However, JVC Spiral Dots worked perfectly. So far so good. They have brought the ZSN back from the garbage bin I pulled them out of.  Thanks for the suggestion.
> 
> I also put my Zircon tips with the black core on my AS10 and it gives them a lot more definition and sparkle than the stock tips. Have you or anyone else tried this combo?



Yup, Spiral dots are very similar to the Auvios. They’re basically the ‘poor mans Spiral Dots’. They just don’t have the dots.

And Zircon tips are very popular and well respected. A lot of people buy the Zircons just to get the tips. Even though the Zircon is meh, the tips are awesome.


----------



## SybilLance (Mar 23, 2019)

AlexaCl said:


> Hey! What would you advise, for a smartphone on 660 snap (mi 8 lite) is it worth taking cca c10 ($ 15), as 06 ($ 15) or as10 ($ 23)? Or zsn ($ 8) will be enough? I’m looking for balanced in-ear headphones, because I’m listening different genres, before that I didn’t have headphones that cost more than $ 15 to form preferences.
> P.S.Ahead of questions about prices: they are available only for Russia, my friend will send them to me



Lol! I did a double take when I saw those prices and laughed upon seeing the P.S. at the bottom of the post.

Hmm...does the Xiaomi Mi 8 Lite also have that Dirac HD Sound mode that can be toggled when you access Developer Options just like in the Redmi Note 3?

Anyway, I have all in-ears you mentioned except for the AS10, but I believe I can answer your question solely based on your consideration of a balanced signature, i.e., neither the bass, midrange nor treble are emphasized or recessed relative to the others. I recommend the CCA C10. Not just balanced. It has very good controlled DD bass that extends all the way down, without the mid-bass emphasis that's characteristic of all the KZ in-ears I've heard. Mids neither recessed like most KZs nor upfront like the ZSN and quite lovely for vocals. Treble so smooth yet retains resolution and detail that you can get lost in your music for hours without any fatigue. Finally its coherence wraps everything in a nice package.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Wouldn't it be better value for me to buy the CCA C16 since I already have a ZSN, AS10 and ZS7 on the way?



Please refer to my description of the C10 above. It's a definite upgrade to the ZSN. More balanced and coherent than the ZS7. Of all my in-ears it's the only one whose sound I could listen to for hours. Fit and placement is another thing, however (stubby nozzle with awkward projection angle) but recently I got another pair of CP100 medium SpinFits that is surprisingly softer and does not hurt at all, even after extended periods. As for value vis-a-vis the C16, from my impressions so far the C16 bests all my in-ears in terms or resolution and detail. I would put it in the same level as the Simgot EM3 save for the bass. The thing is, the C16's signature is different from that of the C10. The C10 really is balanced and smooth while the C16 seems somewhat V-shaped with that great detail and resolution. Then there's the price. The C16 is at least 3X the price of the C10. 

I guess you simply have to think about your criteria and options and weigh them accordingly.


----------



## hakuzen

SybilLance said:


> Yes, those bold blue 4 cores are really thick. Was thinking they would be great with my HE-400i, if converted.
> 
> Anyway, I asked a local store here at Shopee.ph that sells that Y**** 16-core cable (at a much cheaper price than even in AliExpress) if it has a chin slider. I didn't get any reply, so I told them I'll just buy from others. What I did buy were 3 of those 8-core JC Ally SPC cables, for a total of only ₽855 ($16.25), using my vouchers and coins. That's just ₽285 or $5.42 per cable. And I get a free case for each. Very good bargain, don't you think?


i checked the prices from your links, and yea, they were a lot cheaper than in AE. excellent buy.
i'll report after trying the 4 thick cores cable, but i think your he400i deserves a better cable. the difference between their stock cable and cable 133 (gucraftsman) of my list, was abismal


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Yup, Spiral dots are very similar to the Auvios. They’re basically the ‘poor mans Spiral Dots’. They just don’t have the dots.
> 
> And Zircon tips are very popular and well respected. A lot of people buy the Zircons just to get the tips. Even though the Zircon is meh, the tips are awesome.



OMG this helpful kind man @Slater got 10k + likes!! you deserve JVC FW-10000 from this community!

yes, if you got spiral dots already its better than auvio, you're pretty settle with it.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Wouldn't it be better value for me to buy the CCA C16 since I already have a ZSN, AS10 and ZS7 on the way?



I enjoy my C16 more than my C10, mostly because of the better instrument separation, details and holophonic soundstage, plus nicely tight, textured bass. The C10 has very smooth treble, and a bit stronger/deeper bass, but overall I find it a bit too laid-back sounding. I'm not sure if the C10 is less v-shaped sounding, I'd have to compare the two some more.


----------



## AlexaCl

SybilLance said:


> Lol! I did a double take when I saw those prices and laughed upon seeing the P.S. at the bottom of the post.
> 
> Hmm...does the Xiaomi Mi 8 Lite also have that Dirac HD Sound mode that can be toggled when you access Developer Options just like in the Redmi Note 3?
> 
> Anyway, I have all in-ears you mentioned except for the AS10, but I believe I can answer your question solely based on your consideration of a balanced signature, i.e., neither the bass, midrange nor treble are emphasized or recessed relative to the others. I recommend the CCA C10. Not just balanced. It has very good controlled DD bass that extends all the way down, without the mid-bass emphasis that's characteristic of all the KZ in-ears I've heard. Mids neither recessed like most KZs nor upfront like the ZSN and quite lovely for vocals. Treble so smooth yet retains resolution and detail that you can get lost in your music for hours without any fatigue. Finally its coherence wraps everything in a nice package.



Thank you very much for your reply and help. Will buy cca c10
Unfortunately, I did not find any information about the Dirac HD Sound mode in xiaomi mi 8 lite, either in the developer menu or on the Internet.


----------



## mono-type (Mar 23, 2019)

Dunno if this was asked before since it's been a while since I posted in this thread, so excuse me if I interrupted on whatever you're discussing currently, guys. Is it still worth to get the ZS7 if I already own a ZS6? I'm kinda tempted on buying a ZS7, even though I own many KZ IEMs already. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> OMG this helpful kind man @Slater got 10k + likes!! you deserve JVC FW-10000 from this community!
> 
> yes, if you got spiral dots already its better than auvio, you're pretty settle with it.



Haha, thanks guys I’m humbled


----------



## hakuzen

zs6 highs peak was excessive. but after our discussions, kz decided to roll-off highs in every posterior iem.
please, don't ever mention that zsn have treble cannons (which is completely false, it's the opposite, treble is rolled-off), or treble will disappear completely in next kzs. at last, kz will end making old fashion muddy bloated bass iems..
i'm not going to purchase kz anymore, till they restore acceptable treble levels


----------



## nraymond

hakuzen said:


> zs6 highs peak was excessive. but after our discussions, kz decided to roll-off highs in every posterior iem.
> please, don't ever mention that zsn have treble cannons (which is completely false, it's the opposite, treble is rolled-off), or treble will disappear completely in next kzs. at last, kz will end making old fashion muddy bloated bass iems..
> i'm not going to purchase kz anymore, till they restore acceptable treble levels



If you look at the reviews of the ZSN here and elsewhere there were a lot of compliments about the treble along with comments about the treble being enhanced over what people considered neutral, but no real consensus on whether the treble was rolled off:

"Some occasional sibilance (especially with female vocals)"
"Treble is still more aggressive than need be and can be sibilant at times"
"Steely Treble"
"Emphasis on the Sibilants, sometimes sharp trebles and strong peaks"
"If you want to get picky, occasionally harsh in the upper mids and treble"
"Treble is more prominent than midrange, but its tuning makes it so that it is not that noticeably in front of mids. Extension is in fact very limited and this leads to a situation where the lower treble is emphasised, mid treble is recessed and upper treble is almost non-existent."
"The ZSN’s treble is probably better than it should be for a $20 IEM as well. It’s crisp and lively with good extension but doesn’t have any harshness."
"The KZ ZSN highs are very bright and resolve a nice amount of detail. These are not rolled-off sounding earphones yet they do not become nor overly fatiguing. People looking for bright highs will like the KZ ZSN. Piercing highs might show up from time to time, as expected with this style of tuning but, unexpectedly, they did not show strong nor frequent sibilance."

It's possible that the disagreements about treble have to do with the shape/fit in people's ears and/or their age (the older you are, the more high frequency hearing you loose, so the ability of a listener to determine if a headphone has excessive highs is reduced the older they get - i.e. you could make headphones with a nasty 19kHz peak and people over 40 would never know).


----------



## hakuzen (Mar 23, 2019)

nraymond said:


> If you look at the reviews of the ZSN here and elsewhere there were a lot of compliments about the treble along with comments about the treble being enhanced over what people considered neutral, but no real consensus on whether the treble was rolled off:
> 
> "Some occasional sibilance (especially with female vocals)"
> "Treble is still more aggressive than need be and can be sibilant at times"
> ...


upper mids / low treble are boosted, even reaching 8kHz (treble area) in some cases. that's why they show some sibilance. but highs harmonics at 10kHz have disappeared in kzs after zs6.
i do like zsn for their price, but miss treble extension. my age is respectable, but i can hear that treble extension in other iems.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Zsn are bright but harsh? Not at all. For treble sensitive folks, foam tips would solve 99% issues and also bumps up sub-bass. Before C10s and **** spoiled me to the core, ZSN always made me smile while listening. That happy grin full of amazement. Wondering how did they pull it off? And after losing my C10, they straight away slotted as my daily driver. Very versatile and bang for the buck.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

hakuzen said:


> upper mids / low treble are boosted, even reaching 8kHz (treble area) in some cases. that's why they show some sibilance. but highs harmonics at 10kHz have disappeared in kzs after zs6.
> i do like zsn for their price, but miss treble extension. my age is respectable, but i can hear that treble extension in other iems.



IMO this is what makes C10 punch more than ZSN despite similar tuning. I'm very sensitive to sibilance but feel treblw extensions liven up an IEM


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## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 23, 2019)

Delete


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Mar 23, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm confused by your post... are you saying C10 is better than ZS7 and that you'd rather listen to the C10 for hours over even the C16? The price of an earphone shouldn't matter, it's about what one a person prefers. I've noticed the more expensive... the better, so C16 sounds like a winner over the ZS7 and C10?



This post is not by me. Because I don't own C16, EM3 and ZS7. It's by @SybilLance


----------



## nxnje

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm confused by your post... are you saying C10 is better than ZS7 and that you'd rather listen to the C10 for hours over even the C16? The price of an earphone shouldn't matter, it's about what one a person prefers. I've noticed the more expensive... the better, so C16 sounds like a winner over the ZS7 and C10?



I do not have the C16, but i can easily say my thoughts about the ZS7 and C10.
I have to say i loved the zs6, and when i returned them to the seller for a channel imbalance i was quite sad.
Then the zs7 came out and had a chance in picking up at a good price.
I love my zs7, believe me, i really really like them. They're practically a warmer zs6 with a more coherent experience.
These days i've received the C10 and i really like them: personally the c10 are a bit more comfortable and easy to wear (the cable with pre-made hooks helps though. The ZS7 have a warmer presentation but more microdetails, and the sub-bass extension on the ZS7 is terrific.
On the other end, i prefer the more natural and organic sound of the C10 as daily driver.
I don't know how to explain but the C10 are more organic and suited for everyday use, while ZS7 are more on the technical way and are a bit better in terms of technical and analytic listening.

That'a just based on preferences though, so don't trust my words as god's ones. This is just my 2$.


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> It's possible that the disagreements about treble have to do with the shape/fit in people's ears and/or their age (the older you are, the more high frequency hearing you loose, so the ability of a listener to determine if a headphone has excessive highs is reduced the older they get - i.e. you could make headphones with a nasty 19kHz peak and people over 40 would never know).



Huh, what’d you say sonny? 19k peak? Sounds fine to me!


----------



## mono-type

Dunno if this was asked before since it's been a while since I posted in this thread. My apologies for interrupting whatever you're discussing currently, guys.

Is it still worth to get the ZS7 if I already own a ZS6? (I'm using the ZS6 with Ostry OS200 tips, so its notorious harsh sibilance isn't an issue anymore) I'm kinda tempted on buying a ZS7 after reading through this thread that it's kinda a bassier KS6, even though I own many KZ IEMs already. Thanks in advance.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I think I will not buy anymore iems until people say they are better then the AS10. I have a ton of average KZ's so why buy anymore? I consider the ZSN average as well.


----------



## Slater (Mar 23, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think I will not buy anymore iems until people say they are better then the AS10. I have a ton of average KZ's so why buy anymore? I consider the ZSN average as well.



64 Audio A/U12t are better than the AS10. So is the Audeze LCD-i4.


----------



## stryed

AS10 I have managed to resist so far...Being hard on cash helps. KZ7 makes me twitch, and **** appears in my dreams. C16 is poking me.
For AE sales, I will have to be strong, especially as its around payday.
I could not buy and go for another 100-100 category but I'm not sure build quality follows sound quality.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 24, 2019)

stryed said:


> AS10 I have managed to resist so far...Being hard on cash helps. KZ7 makes me twitch, and **** appears in my dreams. C16 is poking me.
> For AE sales, I will have to be strong.


Ever heard of a credit card? Lol. What's so special about the **** to you?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> 64 Audio A/U12t are better than the AS10. So is the Audeze LCD-i4.


But are those around $75USD?


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> But are those around $75USD?


CCA C16, if you would like AS10 with more highs, being less "grainy", more resolving and with a bit more bass (my limited subjective impression).

I still love the "graininess" of less dampened BAs of AS10 for string instruments . It makes the best imitation of how string instruments sound up close to my ears. C16 makes them sound more as a very high quality recording.

C16 is more source-friendly with its higher impedance.


----------



## Tweeters

LaughMoreDaily said:


> But are those around $75USD?



I think that's exactly his point. There are earphones better than AS10 but very few better in AS10's price range


----------



## purplesun

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think I will not buy anymore iems until people say they are better then the AS10.


I find AS10 tuned more like a dynamic driver sound than a full BA sound. Possibly, you might have to look at good dynamic driver IEMs if you want to upgrade from AS10 sound. But I have no idea what they could be, as my collection of dynamic driver IEMs are from 2 years ago and can't compete with AS10.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

I like the ZS7 better than the AS10, C16 as well, but that one is much more expensive. Not sure about C10, would need to compare some more (I need more cables, so I don't have to swap them between earphones).

Haven't compared them to the **** yet. Still burning them in, I think they got a bit more neutral instead of the initial more v-shaped sound, somewhat less bright sounding, bass has tightened a bit, they sound great right away though, burn-in doesn't seem to be doing very much with these. **** is more like C16 and ZS7.


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## majki84 (Mar 24, 2019)

At last I got two pairs of cca c10 (for me and my gf). They're smaller then on pictures, fits very well, lightweight. After few hours I can say that they are very clear sounding and well balanced. No sibilation and any other problems even on high volume. Unfortunately as for our tastes the punch of bass is lacking. It's at most on par with other frequencies. On electronic music and even metal we can feel the lack of power in bass, like a real lack of voltage power or sth but it's not the case because I have lg v30 (but on standard hifi state of amplifier). Music don't sound as deep as it should. I had single dd earphones like soundmagic E10, Sennheiser cx 300 II and there were tons of bass more. I don't know if the burn in process (or just time) will improve bass punch or just this single dd is too weak to stand out from other frequencies? I will buy some foam tips for even better seal. I love the sound of those but it's a real shame that bass is that far behind. It's near perfect for us. If it's not gonna change then I need to buy something else  I got used to music with subwoofer (Logitech Z-5500), my gf also loves deep sounds.


----------



## loomisjohnson

majki84 said:


> At last I got two pairs of cca c10 (for me and my gf). They're smaller then on pictures, fits very well, lightweight. After few hours I can say that they are very clear sounding and well balanced. No sibilation and any other problems even on high volume. Unfortunately as for our tastes the punch of bass is lacking. It's at most on par with other frequencies. On electronic music and even metal we can feel the lack of power in bass, like a real lack of voltage power or sth but it's not the case because I have lg v30 (but on standard hifi state of amplifier). Music don't sound as deep as it should. I had single dd earphones like soundmagic E10, Sennheiser cx 300 II and there were tons of bass more. I don't know if the burn in process (or just time) will improve bass punch or just this single dd is too weak to stand out from other frequencies? I will buy some foam tips for even better seal. I love the sound of those but it's a real shame that bass is that far behind. It's near perfect for us. If it's not gonna change then I need to buy something else  I got used to music with subwoofer (Logitech Z-5500), my gf also loves deep sounds.


unless you place the lg v30 in external or high impedance mode, it sounds horrible--try plugging in an adapter first, then plugging in the iem--it's a massive difference


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## BadReligionPunk

Also if the iems are almost perfect,  but just don't have enough bass for you,  there is a nifty little thing called eq.


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## majki84

There's virtually no eq option on v30, there are just a few predefined sets but not editable, a bit of a joke for hifi music phone  I need to buy some Jack extension to push impedance beyond 50 Ohms (anyone can recommend some 20 Ohm extension?) .


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## Slater (Mar 24, 2019)

majki84 said:


> At last I got two pairs of cca c10 (for me and my gf). They're smaller then on pictures, fits very well, lightweight. After few hours I can say that they are very clear sounding and well balanced. No sibilation and any other problems even on high volume. Unfortunately as for our tastes the punch of bass is lacking. It's at most on par with other frequencies. On electronic music and even metal we can feel the lack of power in bass, like a real lack of voltage power or sth but it's not the case because I have lg v30 (but on standard hifi state of amplifier). Music don't sound as deep as it should. I had single dd earphones like soundmagic E10, Sennheiser cx 300 II and there were tons of bass more. I don't know if the burn in process (or just time) will improve bass punch or just this single dd is too weak to stand out from other frequencies? I will buy some foam tips for even better seal. I love the sound of those but it's a real shame that bass is that far behind. It's near perfect for us. If it's not gonna change then I need to buy something else  I got used to music with subwoofer (Logitech Z-5500), my gf also loves deep sounds.



C10 isn’t supposed to be super deep and mind blowing low end. CCAs are tuned more u shaped and balanced. They definitely sound better with an amp though. Mine sound very sub par from my iPhone, but if I add some power from my FiiO E12A, they wake right up.

With that said, if you really want something with skull crushing low end, but still has the clear and pleasant sound of the C10, the KZ ZS7 is what you want.


----------



## mono-type

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I like the ZS7 better than the AS10, C16 as well, but that one is much more expensive. Not sure about C10, would need to compare some more (I need more cables, so I don't have to swap them between earphones).


 Nice to know about the ZS7, since I already bit the bullet and placed an order for it a while ago. I enjoyed the clarity and detailedness of the AS10, but I feel there's something missing. Maybe ZS7 will fill that void?  

Also, asked this a while ago, but I guess it got ignored :



mono-type said:


> Dunno if this was asked before since it's been a while since I posted in this thread. My apologies for interrupting whatever you're discussing currently, guys.
> 
> Is it still worth to get the ZS7 if I already own a ZS6? (I'm using the ZS6 with Ostry OS200 tips, so its notorious harsh sibilance isn't an issue anymore) I'm kinda tempted on buying a ZS7 after reading through this thread that it's kinda a bassier ZS6, even though I own many KZ IEMs already. Thanks in advance.


I know this is subjective, but is ZS7 an upgrade to the ZS6, or is it something else?
-


----------



## BadReligionPunk

majki84 said:


> There's virtually no eq option on v30, there are just a few predefined sets but not editable, a bit of a joke for hifi music phone  I need to buy some Jack extension to push impedance beyond 50 Ohms (anyone can recommend some 20 Ohm extension?) .


Gotcha. I use poweramp and neutron.  Both worth every penny.


----------



## SupremusDoofus

mono-type said:


> I know this is subjective, but is ZS7 an upgrade to the ZS6, or is it something else?
> -


 It is an upgrade to zs6


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> I know this is subjective, but is ZS7 an upgrade to the ZS6, or is it something else?
> -



It depends on what you mean by upgrade.

ZS7 is easier to drive, has deeper sub bass extension, better mids, and a mid bass hump (which some people don’t like the mid bass humps). ZS6 has better soundstage and more treble energy.

I like and use them both, but for different reasons. Some people like the ZS6 better and others like the ZS7 better.

Also note that the ZS6 treble doesn’t bother me as much as it bothers some people.

If you are one of the people that hated the boosted treble of the ZS6, and wanted a bit more low end, then yeah the ZS7 will be an upgrade. If you like the ZS6 and have little complaints with it, then the ZS7 has a slightly different signature but might be more of a sidegrade.


----------



## mono-type

Slater said:


> It depends on what you mean by upgrade.
> 
> ZS7 is easier to drive, has deeper sub bass extension, better mids, and a mid bass hump (which some people don’t like the mid bass humps). ZS6 has better soundstage and more treble energy.
> 
> ...


I used to hate my ZS6 because of the boosted treble, until I read somewhere in this very thread regarding the Ostry OS200 tips. After using the OS200 tips (as I mentioned earlier), my ZS6 has become one of my most used KZ IEMs in my collection, since they tamed down the treble and boosted the bass a bit, and I like the OS200 tips better than those imitation T400 foam tips, since the foam tips are disposable and hassle to put into your ears (with all those rolling and pinching; yeah, I'm not that much of a fan of foam tips).

Yeah, you could say I'm one of the people that hated the ZS6's infamous treble peak (when used with stock starline tips), so based on your description of the ZS7, looks like I'll definitely enjoy it.


----------



## loomisjohnson

majki84 said:


> There's virtually no eq option on v30, there are just a few predefined sets but not editable, a bit of a joke for hifi music phone  I need to buy some Jack extension to push impedance beyond 50 Ohms (anyone can recommend some 20 Ohm extension?) .


get a simple 3.5mm m to f cable, then plug the cable in first (before you connect the iem)--this tricks the v30 into external mode. you can also get a 75ohm adapter plug for ten bucks or so.


----------



## majki84

Unfortunately I tried some 1m jack extension and it was recognized as hifi only, even after plugging in the iems. I need to buy something else


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> get a simple 3.5mm m to f cable, then plug the cable in first (before you connect the iem)--this tricks the v30 into external mode. you can also get a 75ohm adapter plug for ten bucks or so.





majki84 said:


> Unfortunately I tried some 1m jack extension and it was recognized as hifi only, even after plugging in the iems. I need to buy something else



While I do not have the v30, you should be able to use one of the cheapy in-line volume adapters. They’re nothing more than a variable resistor controlled by a plastic wheel. I’ve seen them as cheap as $0.99.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> With that said, if you really want something with skull crushing low end, but still has the clear and pleasant sound of the C10, the KZ ZS7 is what you want.



I was going to say the same thing. The C10 is not going to have the bass slam, holophonic soundstage, instrument separation and exciting sound of the ZS7. The ZS7 is great for electronic music.


----------



## purplesun

majki84 said:


> On electronic music and even metal we can feel the lack of power in bass, like a real lack of voltage power or sth but it's not the case because I have lg v30 (but on standard hifi state of amplifier). Music don't sound as deep as it should. I had single dd earphones like soundmagic E10, Sennheiser cx 300 II and there were tons of bass more. I don't know if the burn in process (or just time) will improve bass punch or just this single dd is too weak to stand out from other frequencies? My gf also loves deep sounds.


If your preference is for deep bass in any earphones, I would recommend getting an outboard amplifier with a good bass switch. You should then get deeper & faster bass and more controlled highs & staging. Doesn't have to be too fancy or expensive. I currently use Topping NX3s with my LG G6, but have also seen good reviews on NX1 and Fiio amps.


----------



## gbrgbr (Mar 25, 2019)

KZ ZSN Pro
US $21 - 22
Store:CCA Global Store

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ifi-Bass-Earbuds-Sport-Noise/32994214403.html

EDIT : Also available in other stores.







EDIT 2
KZ Global Store


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gbrgbr said:


> KZ ZSN Pro
> US $21 - 22
> Store:CCA Global Store
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...ifi-Bass-Earbuds-Sport-Noise/32994214403.html


Oh God... here we go again. More KZ models. I guess the first 100 exclusive owners loved them. I wont be jumping on the early bird bandwagon.


----------



## Nimweth

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I was going to say the same thing. The C10 is not going to have the bass slam, holophonic soundstage, instrument separation and exciting sound of the ZS7. The ZS7 is great for electronic music.


I can't wait! I listen to a lot of electronic music, it sounds great on the C16, but ZS7 coming this week! What tips would you recommend? I will probably go for Spiral Dots as a default. What is the cable like?


----------



## Zerohour88

gbrgbr said:


> KZ ZSN Pro
> US $21 - 22
> Store:CCA Global Store
> 
> ...



already usd$14 here for me, tempted to blind buy again but already got a few stuff coming in


----------



## DynamicEars

wow the FR promotion graphic looks like C10. what is the differences with normal ZSN?


----------



## Leo-rume

gbrgbr said:


> KZ ZSN Pro
> US $21 - 22
> Store:CCA Global Store
> 
> ...


I just checked out the real life images of the blue zsn pro's on their store and.........well, I want that iem at all cost. Boy is that blue striking!!!


----------



## DocHoliday

Leo-rume said:


> I just checked out the real life images of the blue zsn pro's on their store and.........well, I want that iem at all cost. Boy is that blue striking!!!



That blue is stunning!



 

.....and if it turns out that they're not your favorite for music



 

 you can always repurpose them for gaming!


----------



## SybilLance (Mar 25, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> > LaughMoreDaily said:
> >
> > I'm confused by your post... are you saying C10 is better than ZS7 and that you'd rather listen to the C10 for hours over even the C16? The price of an earphone shouldn't matter, it's about what one a person prefers. I've noticed the more expensive... the better, so C16 sounds like a winner over the ZS7 and C10?
> 
> ...



@LaughMoreDaily you deleted your post above? Couldn't find it anywhere save in replies where it's quoted.

Anyway please don't be confused. To be clear as to where I stand, I'll make it categorical:

As between the CCA C10 and the KZ ZS7, I find the C10 better.

As between the C10 and its all-BA sibling the C16, I cannot make the same categorical statement as above; I'm still listening to the C16, putting all my perceptions down on paper. The best I could come up with is that they have different signatures, as I described them in my post.

Your question that I'd "rather listen to the C10 for hours over even the C16", presumes one other categorical statement that I did not utter. Please note my premise as regards both these CCA IEMs was on *value*—that's where I started my comparison between them. When talking about value, price is definitely part of the conversation. It should never be omitted insofar as I'm concerned, because to me the price is a feature of a headphone in the same manner that its sound, broken down into its constituent characteristics, is. That's how I always see and *evaluate* things. As to how the headphone reproduces and presents the music you play through it, that's where you're right—it comes down to individual preference.

Now...how and why do I say I find the C10 better over the ZS7? The answer requires the requisite bases, and thus will necessitate revisiting the ZS7, which I don't personally own but have access to; so it will have to be explained at a later date.

Until then, don't you think you should listen more to your music and not be so overly concerned about your headphones? If they reproduce the music that you love with sufficient fidelity then you're good. And you EnjoyMoreDaily.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Nimweth said:


> I can't wait! I listen to a lot of electronic music, it sounds great on the C16, but ZS7 coming this week! What tips would you recommend? I will probably go for Spiral Dots as a default. What is the cable like?



I'm using spiral dots as well. The cable is a pretty standard KZ one, I'm not using the cable, I'm using a KZ balanced upgrade cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

SybilLance said:


> Until then, don't you think you should listen more to your music and not be so overly concerned about your headphones? If they reproduce the music that you love with sufficient fidelity then you're good. And you EnjoyMoreDaily.



Exactly!  EnjoyMoreDaily... love it!


----------



## nicksson (Mar 25, 2019)

About the KZ ZSN "Pro"... the "double dynamic unit" which was advertised until yesterday is now "double magnetic dynamic". What means this? As I saw, there are not 2 dynamic drive, but only 1....






It's a joke?


----------



## BrunoC

nicksson said:


> About the KZ ZSN "Pro"... the "double dynamic unit" which was advertised until yesterday is now "double magnetic dynamic". What means this? As I saw, the are not 2 dynamic drive, but only 1....
> 
> 
> It's a joke?



It's not a joke. It's chinglish.
Typical actually....

PS: I look at chinglish as some sort of poetry...


----------



## nicksson (Mar 25, 2019)

BrunoC said:


> It's not a joke. It's chinglish.
> Typical actually....
> 
> PS: *I look at chinglish as some sort of poetry.*..


LOOL!!!
Damn bad, as I thought that the new ZSN will be something like a ZSE (the "old" ZSN dynamic drive + 1 new very low frequency dynamic driver) + 1 BA. Now, it seems like the PRO version is just a a "bassier" version of ZSN...
Few weeks and we'll see some reviews, I think...


----------



## Slater

SybilLance said:


> @LaughMoreDaily you deleted your post above? Couldn't find it anywhere save in replies where it's quoted.
> 
> Anyway please don't be confused. To be clear as to where I stand, I'll make it categorical:
> 
> ...



I am not sure if you’ve seen the slogan KZ is putting on some of their newer models:

“_Don’t forget the original intention is to use headphones to enjoy music”_

I know I’m guilty of over-analyzing gear myself. I’ve been trying to change that mindset more and more as time goes on. The gear is there to serve the music, not the other way around!

KZs slogan is good advice for us all


----------



## PhonoPhi

DocHoliday said:


> That blue is stunning!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes  the blue is nice!
I think I wait for CCA CA4, it is also similarly blue, and "Every Second To Shake Your Sounding" feels more like me 
(More seriously, I like the smooth plate of CCA better - both aesthetically and practically, and count on CCA to have a bit more balanced version)


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2019)

nicksson said:


> About the KZ ZSN "Pro"... the "double dynamic unit" which was advertised until yesterday is now "double magnetic dynamic". What means this? As I saw, the are not 2 dynamic drive, but only 1....
> 
> 
> It's a joke?



I suspect ‘double magnet’ refers to a driver with a magnetic flux twice what a standard driver has. This Chinglish marketing speak usually is referring to a high (~1.0+) Tesla magnet driver.

A Tesla driver can, in theory, be a good thing (assuming) the rest of the driver is designed properly. Think of it like very sticky high performance tires on a car. It’s great if they come from the manufactures on an Italian sports car, because the rest of the car has been built to take advantage of the tires. But those same tires would be a total waste on a Toyota mini-van.

The end result of Tesla magnets will vary, depending on the rest of the driver’s design (diaphragm, tuning, impedance, vents, etc). There’s not one singular summary, like “a Tesla magnet always = this”. But in *general*, the stronger driver magnet usually translates to bass having a deeper extension, faster speed, and tighter sound. But again, the overall tuning can totally change that.

Some gear that uses high Tesla drivers are ibasso IT01, beyerdynamic T1, beyerdynamic Xelento, Fostex TH-X00, ZhiYin Z5000, and others.

Personally, I think the ZSN was pretty good just as it was. So I’m not sure why KZ felt the need to immediately follow up the very recent ZSN with a 2nd revised version. KZ usually has an 18-month cycle on model upgrades. The ZSN literally just came out a few months ago, and had a very positive reception.

We’ll just have to wait and see what exactly ‘Pro’ means. Just because the word ‘Pro’ is after something doesn’t mean it’s _better_ (although it does almost always mean a _higher_ _price_).


----------



## 1clearhead

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I enjoy my C16 more than my C10, mostly because of the better instrument separation, details and holophonic soundstage, plus nicely tight, textured bass. The C10 has very smooth treble, and a bit stronger/deeper bass, but overall I find it a bit too laid-back sounding. I'm not sure if the C10 is less v-shaped sounding, I'd have to compare the two some more.


Try these cables on the C10 and hear the details and transparency come right at you with a more closer approach, sound and feel to the C16. I kid you not, I alternate between the C16 and C10 now since changing the cables on the C10 to the "type B cables" shown on the picture below. The C10 were awesome before, but now they're priceless with the added cable upgrade!


    PIC's are Courtesy from CCA Global Store

Link...
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...16-KZ-Ba10-Zs10-Zst/4829026_32993691952.html?

-Clear


----------



## zazaboy (Mar 25, 2019)

-


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Mar 25, 2019)

Underwhelmed by ZSN Pro TBH. Except a new socket for pins and new color specs are nothing but the same. Unless they've tweaked the tuning. Could they make it like C10 with their new dynamic driver? Would make things very interesting.

Edit - typos


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Can anyone help me with the difference between Tennmak whirlwinds tips and KZ spiral tips? Both seem wide bore and very similar. Planning to purchase wide bore tips and whirlwinds have a great deal on AE.


----------



## mbwilson111

Dani157 said:


> Can anyone help me with the difference between Tennmak whirlwinds tips and KZ spiral tips? Both seem wide bore and very similar. Planning to purchase wide bore tips and whirlwinds have a great deal on AE.



People have said that the Whirlwinds are less fragile than the KZ ones.


----------



## Slater

Dani157 said:


> Underwhelmed by ZSN Pro TBH. Except a new sockey for pins and new color specs are nothing bit the same. Unless they've tweaked the tuning. Could they make it like C10 with their new dynamic driver? Would make things very interesting



So wait, you own the Pro?

Do you have the non-Pro you can compare it with?

Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> Can anyone help me with the difference between Tennmak whirlwinds tips and KZ spiral tips? Both seem wide bore and very similar. Planning to purchase wide bore tips and whirlwinds have a great deal on AE.





mbwilson111 said:


> People have said that the Whirlwinds are less fragile than the KZ ones.



Tennmak version are much stronger and won’t fall apart like the KZ ones. 

You can also order all 1 size from Tennmak. So for example, all L or all S. More color choices too.

With KZ you are stuck with a SML set, even though most people can only use 1 size.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> You can also order all 1 size from Tennmak. So for example, all L or all S. More color choices too.



Yes, we did that in a message to the seller.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Mar 25, 2019)

Slater said:


> So wait, you own the Pro?
> 
> Do you have the non-Pro you can compare it with?
> 
> Thanks!


Have non-pro version. I'm just speculating about pro. Apologies if they seem otherwise. Just thought ZSN Pro would be triple drivers (2DD+1BA)for the price and immediate release after success of ZSN as dual driver.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

1clearhead said:


> Try these cables on the C10 and hear the details and transparency come right at you with a more closer approach, sound and feel to the C16. I kid you not, I alternate between the C16 and C10 now since changing the cables on the C10 to the "type B cables" shown on the picture below. The C10 were awesome before, but now they're priceless with the added cable upgrade!
> 
> PIC's are Courtesy from CCA Global Store
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip! I'm using a balanced output though, so I have been using the KZ silver-plated balanced upgrade cables with my earphones. I do need to get some more balanced cables so I can compare between my earphones without having to swap cables.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Slater said:


> Tennmak version are much stronger and won’t fall apart like the KZ ones.
> 
> You can also order all 1 size from Tennmak. So for example, all L or all S. More color choices too.
> 
> With KZ you are stuck with a SML set, even though most people can only use 1 size.



Will go for whirlwinds then. 18pcs for $6 seems a good deal.

Thanks @Slater and @mbwilson111


----------



## Slater

Dani157 said:


> Will go for whirlwinds then. 18pcs for $6 seems a good deal.
> 
> Thanks @Slater and @mbwilson111



Yes, a good deal. I paid $9 last time I bought the Tennmaks.


----------



## nicksson (Mar 25, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> Just thought ZSN Pro would be triple drivers (*2DD+1BA*) for the price and immediate release after success of ZSN as dual driver.


 So I'm not the only one to misunderstand the Chinglish...
Good job, KZ marketing team! Go back to school!


----------



## Slater (Mar 25, 2019)

nicksson said:


> So I'm not the only one to misunderstand the Chinglish...
> Good job, KZ marketing team! Go back to school!



Here’s 2 priceless gems from the KZ marketing team:



Photoshop fail (sooo ergonomic!)


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 21, 2020)

Matt Damon


----------



## fluteloop

BadReligionPunk said:


> C10 is more coherent, more clean, more balanced then ZS10. ZS10 has much better staging, spacing and a much better soundstage. Both are smooth and both have considerable speed. I prefer the overall sound of the c10 by quite a lot. Enough to overshadow the strong technical of the ZS10.
> 
> That said, and I'm not trying to shy anyone away from KZ or this thread, but check out the BQEYZ thread and snoop around there. New company and they really have something going on there in the $40-$50 bracket. Really good stuff that I would call a step up.



No you're just saying buy them all and see for ourselves.... Ok if you insist.


----------



## hakuzen

added cable 65 (jc ally painted 5n ofc/spc 4 thick cores) to my list.
but detailed comments, pics, and links, are here (spoiler section)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 26, 2019)

You heard it here first folks... I ain't buying a ZSN Pro! Why would I if I like my $7 stock ATR 100x  better than my ZSN?


----------



## gbrgbr

1clearhead said:


> ...C10 now since changing the cables on the C10 to the "type B cables" shown on the picture below...
> -Clear



SL said the C10 uses the _Para-A_ connector ?
see : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2837#post-14837428


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Is the C10  a downgrade or sidegrade from AS10? I am assuming it is both?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

gbrgbr said:


> SL said the C10 uses the _Para-A_ connector ?
> see : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2837#post-14837428



I have both these balanced cables:  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ated-Gold-Cable-2Pin-Upgrade/32812293477.html
The B-paragraph works with the C10.


----------



## 1clearhead

gbrgbr said:


> SL said the C10 uses the _Para-A_ connector ?
> see : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2837#post-14837428


I ordered "Type-B". You should have no problem, it fits perfectly.


----------



## Gazd

Not Kz related but have anybody tried the Weston UM pro 10? How is it compare to my Kz Zs7?


----------



## emeline

Hi all, I'd like to gift my friend a Bluetooth cable for her KZ ZSNs. I've seen somewhere in this thread that people are using the TRN BT3 with them - could you advise on 0.75 mm vs 0.78 mm 2-pin? Thank you


----------



## Nimweth

ZS7 arrived. I listened to this and it blew me away!


These are really good, Spiral Dots installed, classical, electronic, rock all delivered with impact. Bass superb, soundstage amazing! More to come.


----------



## Slater (Mar 26, 2019)

emeline said:


> Hi all, I'd like to gift my friend a Bluetooth cable for her KZ ZSNs. I've seen somewhere in this thread that people are using the TRN BT3 with them - could you advise on 0.75 mm vs 0.78 mm 2-pin? Thank you



Be aware that the plug will stick up, because the 2-pin connector on the ZSN is different than other KZs. All KZs have recessed sockets, but the ZSN has a raised socket.

You can still technically plug in a normal 2-pin cable and it will fit, but it will stick out. Whether or not that bothers you or your friend is a personal thing.

So that’s going to be a bigger issue than the 0.75mm vs 0.78mm pin size (which the pin size really isn’t an issue).


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Nimweth said:


> ZS7 arrived. I listened to this and it blew me away!
> 
> 
> These are really good, Spiral Dots installed, classical, electronic, rock all delivered with impact. Bass superb, soundstage amazing! More to come.




Enjoy! I'm a big fan of them, they will sound even better after a short time of use.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the C10  a downgrade or sidegrade from AS10? I am assuming it is both?



For me it is a slight upgrade. Depends on what sound signature you like imho.


----------



## Nimweth

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Enjoy! I'm a big fan of them, they will sound even better after a short time of use.


Yes, I plan to burn in for 100 hours, and try different cables as well. Very impressive out of the box. Like a cuddlier C16 really!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Nimweth said:


> Yes, I plan to burn in for 100 hours, and try different cables as well. Very impressive out of the box. Like a cuddlier C16 really!



Yes, they can happily exist beside the C16. I love their industrial looking metal design as well.


----------



## TechnoidFR

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the C10  a downgrade or sidegrade from AS10? I am assuming it is both?



No. It's an upgrade of zs10 for me. 
C16 is a upgrade of as10


----------



## Mybutthurts

Well after a quite successful Cheltenham I went and bought an amp, a FIIO A3 to complement my FIIO X1-2gen. And put into action initially with an ZS10...wow there a pretty distinct improvement, less muddyness in mid range, firmer bass and as if a veil had been removed from the music, it really brought the ZS10 to life.
Today listened to AS10, not so much of an improvement. Seems to me a little brighter, maybe a tighter bass.
Also, used with a set of Motorola over ears and also lifted them to level above what I expected.
Looks like due to its impedance of 32ohms (iirc) the ZS10 needs a bit of Welly behind it to really sing.


----------



## Nimweth

Mybutthurts said:


> Well after a quite successful Cheltenham I went and bought an amp, a FIIO A3 to complement my FIIO X1-2gen. And put into action initially with an ZS10...wow there a pretty distinct improvement, less muddyness in mid range, firmer bass and as if a veil had been removed from the music, it really brought the ZS10 to life.
> Today listened to AS10, not so much of an improvement. Seems to me a little brighter, maybe a tighter bass.
> Also, used with a set of Motorola over ears and also lifted them to level above what I expected.
> Looks like due to its impedance of 32ohms (iirc) the ZS10 needs a bit of Welly behind it to really sing.


Yes, the A3 is excellent, it does have a sound which is on the warmer side of neutral. That probably explains the improvements in the bass.


----------



## eclein

Has anybody grabbed a KZ BA10 during this last month or so and found it to be a happy time!! lol 
I just put mine in after not listening to them for weeks and I still love this sound! I wanted to hear it fresh again as much as I could, these deserve more love, I think.


----------



## neo_styles

Man, cold season really bugs me. Keep thinking I'm having seal issues because my left ear picks up more bass than the right, even with foamies. Nope, just stuffed up sinuses.

Looks like it'll be over-ears for the next few days.


----------



## emeline

Slater said:


> Be aware that the plug will stick up, because the 2-pin connector on the ZSN is different than other KZs. All KZs have recessed sockets, but the ZSN has a raised socket.
> 
> You can still technically plug in a normal 2-pin cable and it will fit, but it will stick out. Whether or not that bothers you or your friend is a personal thing.
> 
> So that’s going to be a bigger issue than the 0.75mm vs 0.78mm pin size (which the pin size really isn’t an issue).



Thank you Slater, I did wonder if that was going to be a problem... That's a pity. I'll look more into it, thanks anyway


----------



## blur.png (Mar 27, 2019)

i wonder if i should take a bite by buying the ZSN Pro, i dont really like the standard ZSN (it lives as my bluetooth earphone now since it looked nice) but hey, they cost the same as the ZSN on my local website (i know, **** logic right ?)
also KZ said something about dual DD, but on the product page it says 1dd + 1ba, im starting to guess its a concentric DD, since by the renders its thicker than the ZSN DD
i wonder if its a waste of cash hmm....


----------



## TheVortex

Just ordered the KZ ZSN Pro blue with mic for £12.63 which is so cheap. I will update here when it arrives.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Mybutthurts said:


> Well after a quite successful Cheltenham I went and bought an amp, a FIIO A3 to complement my FIIO X1-2gen. And put into action initially with an ZS10...wow there a pretty distinct improvement, less muddyness in mid range, firmer bass and as if a veil had been removed from the music, it really brought the ZS10 to life.
> Today listened to AS10, not so much of an improvement. Seems to me a little brighter, maybe a tighter bass.
> Also, used with a set of Motorola over ears and also lifted them to level above what I expected.
> Looks like due to its impedance of 32ohms (iirc) the ZS10 needs a bit of Welly behind it to really sing.



I agree, a good spurcs bring much improvement ! My Zishan Z3 change the quality of perception of zs10 this last day. Just the stereo and little artificial but really large


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

neo_styles said:


> Man, cold season really bugs me. Keep thinking I'm having seal issues because my left ear picks up more bass than the right, even with foamies. Nope, just stuffed up sinuses.
> 
> Looks like it'll be over-ears for the next few days.



Yeah, I've had some massive sinus problems this winter, still not completely gone. Also had my ears flushed and it took some time for my hearing to adjust to that. Now I still have some slight ringing in my ears which gets worse during the night.


----------



## 1clearhead

TheVortex said:


> Just ordered the KZ ZSN Pro blue with mic for £12.63 which is so cheap. I will update here when it arrives.


...just bought the "blue" one, as well!

BLUE is sooooo COOL!


----------



## Deb1995

I need an earphone under $30. 
Can anyone tell me which earphone should I buy?
I was thinking of KZ AS06 but I found the CCA C10 in the same price range.


----------



## DallaPo

It depends on what sound you're looking for!
The AS06 has more bass, but a bit of a peaky upper midrange and treble. The C10 is more balanced overall and a perfect all-rounder.

Maybe this can help you too:
https://david-hahn.wixsite.com/chi-fiear/bestenliste

Budget <30 €


----------



## Sylmar

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Yeah, I've had some massive sinus problems this winter, still not completely gone. Also had my ears flushed and it took some time for my hearing to adjust to that. Now I still have some slight ringing in my ears which gets worse during the night.



I'm having the same problems from time to time. Good thing when it really acts up and influences my hearing is that I don't have to wonder which IEM to use as they will all sound crap.


----------



## Deb1995

DallaPo said:


> It depends on what sound you're looking for!
> The AS06 has more bass, but a bit of a peaky upper midrange and treble. The C10 is more balanced overall and a perfect all-rounder.
> 
> Maybe this can help you too:
> ...


I have a KZ ATE and KZ ZSN, but I liked the sound of KZ ATE most. Which one will be better as an upgrade over ATE?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Sylmar said:


> I'm having the same problems from time to time. Good thing when it really acts up and influences my hearing is that I don't have to wonder which IEM to use as they will all sound crap.



Haha, I know what you mean, I couldn't listen to my earphones for a while because I couldn't hear anything from having to drip oil into my ears and then because water from the flushing wouldn't come out. With the sinus problems the audio often sounded bad and unbalanced.

Now I can properly enjoy my KZ's again


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

The NiceHCK 8 core copper bronze cable makes the AS10 brighter but its useless to me since the IEMs keep falling out of my ears making the lack of seal worse than it already is. I'll say it again, AS10 is best stock.


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> ... I'll say it again, AS10 is best stock.



I concur.
I tried several different cables with AS10, including balanced ones, and for me the stock cable  worked the best.
CCA C16 seems to benefit from a balanced cable, at least a little bit, to my ears.


----------



## TheVortex

1clearhead said:


> ...just bought the "blue" one, as well!
> 
> BLUE is sooooo COOL!



We are the blues brothers


----------



## purplesun (Mar 27, 2019)

Deb1995 said:


> I have a KZ ATE and KZ ZSN, but I liked the sound of KZ ATE most. Which one will be better as an upgrade over ATE?


Probably CCA C10. Less v-shaped FR than ATE. More extended & cleaner highs. More open staging. About same level of isolation as ATE. Generally less energetic than ATE but, with some amping, can be forward-sounding. Less upper-mids than ZSN. Biggest hassle will probably be getting the IEM nozzles to stay put further into the ear canal.


----------



## 1clearhead

TheVortex said:


> We are the blues brothers











THE BLUE
COOL BROTHERS!
CHEERS!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 28, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> I concur.
> I tried several different cables with AS10, including balanced ones, and for me the stock cable  worked the best.
> CCA C16 seems to benefit from a balanced cable, at least a little bit, to my ears.


I am starting to like the NiceHCK 8 core cable on the AS10 now. I'm not sure what happened before... I was walking downhill and they kept falling out of my ears but while walking on flat ground they stay in.

The stock cable has better isolation but this 8 core cable has thumpier bass and a more lively energetic sound then the dark original cable. It's like a whole new IEM and for $9USD.

One person said that they like the C10 better than the AS10 and I read a review that said the same but I am pretty sure they never heard this NiceHCK cable/AS10 combo! Its basically an AS10 Pro.


----------



## inevitableso

1clearhead said:


> ...just bought the "blue" one, as well!
> 
> BLUE is sooooo COOL!



Pre-ordered  the blue ones too


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I am starting to like the NiceHCK 8 core cable on the AS10 now. I'm not sure what happened before... I was walking downhill and they kept falling out of my ears but while walking on flat ground they stay in.



My guess is that it was sweat causing it to loosen/pop out.

Even if you weren’t dripping sweat, the skin pores release sweat on a microscopic level. Also the sweat condenses because the ear canal is a sealed cavity when you wear IEMs.

Add to that the sebum that’s normally excreted in the ear canal for natural lubrication purposes.

Anyways, all that’s enough to get the seal to work loose.


----------



## nxnje

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Yeah, I've had some massive sinus problems this winter, still not completely gone. Also had my ears flushed and it took some time for my hearing to adjust to that. Now I still have some slight ringing in my ears which gets worse during the night.


shame on this
i personally have this issue every day of the year, not just in winter season
though, i'm unlucky
I've sent back many IEMs bought on amazon as my right here is a bit less sensible, i don't know why but it picks less bass, feels like sometimes bass has no impact while the left one is OK.
I've ended using every IEM and get used to it, i know it's weird but seems like my right ear canal is different compared to the left one.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

nxnje said:


> shame on this
> i personally have this issue every day of the year, not just in winter season
> though, i'm unlucky
> I've sent back many IEMs bought on amazon as my right here is a bit less sensible, i don't know why but it picks less bass, feels like sometimes bass has no impact while the left one is OK.
> I've ended using every IEM and get used to it, i know it's weird but seems like my right ear canal is different compared to the left one.



I wonder if there are any music players that let you equalize the left and right channel differently, that might help in this case. It could be your eustachian tubes that are clogged causing the bass problems. For me it is also an exception when I have no sinus problems at all, but this winter it was much worse than usual.


----------



## DynamicEars

I dont know the story but conclusion is 2 kz zsn pro on the way to me


----------



## DallaPo

Deb1995 said:


> I have a KZ ATE and KZ ZSN, but I liked the sound of KZ ATE most. Which one will be better as an upgrade over ATE?



If only these two are available for selection, then the CCA C10.

Otherwise have a look at this one, I think it's just right!

https://david-hahn.wixsite.com/chi-fiear/Hersteller/DIY-EARPHONE/DR2


----------



## Letm

Hi headfiers. This thread is always so active, I read MOST of the new information. Just logged in to remind you that Aliexpress is having an anniversary sale. Kz as10 for $40 and tin audio T2 for $27. FIIO has some good discounts too.


----------



## jeromeaparis

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I am starting to like the NiceHCK 8 core cable on the AS10 now. I'm not sure what happened before... I was walking downhill and they kept falling out of my ears but while walking on flat ground they stay in.
> 
> The stock cable has better isolation but this 8 core cable has thumpier bass and a more lively energetic sound then the dark original cable. It's like a whole new IEM and for $9USD.
> 
> One person said that they like the C10 better than the AS10 and I read a review that said the same but I am pretty sure they never heard this NiceHCK cable/AS10 combo! Its basically an AS10 Pro.



Hi, can you please give us the link for your "NiceHCK 8 core cable" that makes C10 & AS10 sound so well !


----------



## Sylmar

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I wonder if there are any music players that let you equalize the left and right channel differently, that might help in this case. It could be your eustachian tubes that are clogged causing the bass problems. For me it is also an exception when I have no sinus problems at all, but this winter it was much worse than usual.



I'm also having left/right imbalance problems as my left ear is slightly less compared to the right ear. This is why I used Cowons and Rockboxed music players where I can change the L/R balance. Nowadays I use my phone a lot combined with FiiO Bluetooth adapters. I don't know about other phone brands but Samsung has a 'Sound Assistant' app on the Play Store that lets you change the L/R balance amongst other things.

Ontopic, curious about the ZSN update. Hope it's not super bassy.


----------



## Deb1995

DallaPo said:


> If only these two are available for selection, then the CCA C10.
> 
> Otherwise have a look at this one, I think it's just right!
> 
> https://david-hahn.wixsite.com/chi-fiear/Hersteller/DIY-EARPHONE/DR2


I didn't know about them. Initially, I thought of KZ AS10 but some of the reviews said that AS06 is somewhat better. later I found the CCA C10 from a youtube video. I don't know much and solely reliant on the user reviews. Do you have the DR2? Is it better than CCA C10?
I use fiio X1 and mobile for listening.


----------



## DallaPo

Deb1995 said:


> I didn't know about them. Initially, I thought of KZ AS10 but some of the reviews said that AS06 is somewhat better. later I found the CCA C10 from a youtube video. I don't know much and solely reliant on the user reviews. Do you have the DR2? Is it better than CCA C10?
> I use fiio X1 and mobile for listening.



Yes I have, this is also my page 

To compare the two is difficult, because they have different demands. The DR2 has a larger V signature, but it sounds very natural. And an unbelievably strong bass beat without covering the mids too much. They are very lively and detailed, as are the trebles. The DR2 has a great fun factor. 

The C10 has a less pronounced V-signature, is somewhat more homogeneous and sensitive. Definitely the more audiophile in-ear of both.

DR2: naturalness (especially in voice reproduction), fun

C10: Balanced, Allrounder, Details


----------



## nxnje

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I wonder if there are any music players that let you equalize the left and right channel differently, that might help in this case. It could be your eustachian tubes that are clogged causing the bass problems. For me it is also an exception when I have no sinus problems at all, but this winter it was much worse than usual.



I seriously don't know. The problem is the right ear is kinda "splashy" when i wear IEMs. I do not have earwax as i clean my ears daily with sprays and warm water, so it couldn't be that.
I seriously do not know what to do even because the otolaryngologist said i have no problems.. but i really feel sad listening to music like that. Over ear are not a probem but they're not comfortable like IEMs and not as comfortable and easy to carry and use.
I don't know who ask to.


In any case, i got zsn pro shipped today with another banned brand IEM that i could not name.

I'm even liking the CCA C10, that's great, hope i got more great sounding iems coming.


----------



## Nimweth

I have been experimenting with "absolute phase". I reversed the pins on both channels of my ZS7 and obtained an improved stereo image and soundstage. It depends on the phase alignment of your source device/amplifier. Get all the phases aligned and it sounds great. I do this on my Hi-Fi and it is very effective. It's worth experimenting to get the best result.


----------



## eclein

Nimweth said:


> I have been experimenting with "absolute phase". I reversed the pins on both channels of my ZS7 and obtained an improved stereo image and soundstage. It depends on the phase alignment of your source device/amplifier. Get all the phases aligned and it sounds great. I do this on my Hi-Fi and it is very effective. It's worth experimenting to get the best result.



It sounds better when you’d think it wouldn’t, at least I did,
V30 and **** due tomorrow....a fun day and weekend ahead!
Hows the ZS7?


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> I have been experimenting with "absolute phase". I reversed the pins on both channels of my ZS7 and obtained an improved stereo image and soundstage. It depends on the phase alignment of your source device/amplifier. Get all the phases aligned and it sounds great. I do this on my Hi-Fi and it is very effective. It's worth experimenting to get the best result.



I’ve heard of people swearing by this, as it improves the soundstage. 

What you have to be careful of is multi driver earphones with crossovers, which could permanently destroy them (although it has never happened to me). It depends on the individual earphone, and how it’s crossover circuit is designed.

I would personally only do it to single dynamics or single BA earphones with no crossover, as that’s totally ‘safe’.


----------



## pracheta

Hi.
I want to buy cable for kz ZST PRO(colorful)..which would be the best in terms of quality and budget...I get confused abt .75 mm and .78 mm.
Also I have kz ZS3... so willwill  cable work or do I have to buy another one for ZS3.

Also planning to buy Tin Audio T2...or should I buy Kz ZSR.

I love clarity in music bt a bit of bass also..

Thanks in advance


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> I’ve heard of people swearing by this, as it improves the soundstage.
> 
> What you have to be careful of is multi driver earphones with crossovers, which could permanently destroy them (although it has never happened to me). It depends on the individual earphone, and how it’s crossover circuit is designed.
> 
> I would personally only do it to single dynamics or single BA earphones with no crossover, as that’s totally ‘safe’.


That's interesting, I assume the same principle applies to Hi-Fi speakers although I have done this for many years with my 4-way transmission line monsters and have had no damage so far!


----------



## Nimweth

eclein said:


> It sounds better when you’d think it wouldn’t, at least I did,
> V30 and **** due tomorrow....a fun day and weekend ahead!
> Hows the ZS7?


ZS7: Cinematic heaven! Review coming soon. Impressions of **** please!


----------



## Noteblue

Hi, the best Bluetooth cable for ZSN?


----------



## rambomhtri

I've created a separate thread but no one's participating. I basically want to know if there's any IEM adequate for sleeping. I want to take advantage of the Bluetooth cable for the ZS7, so I'm looking for a small IEM that is compatible with the 2 pin connector of the Bluetooth cable of the ZS7. Anyone?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

nxnje said:


> I seriously don't know. The problem is the right ear is kinda "splashy" when i wear IEMs. I do not have earwax as i clean my ears daily with sprays and warm water, so it couldn't be that.
> I seriously do not know what to do even because the otolaryngologist said i have no problems.. but i really feel sad listening to music like that. Over ear are not a probem but they're not comfortable like IEMs and not as comfortable and easy to carry and use.
> I don't know who ask to.



I'm sorry to hear that. I guess the pressure of the ear tip is causing the sound of your ear to distort somehow. Have you tried earbuds? Though I don't know if there are any recent good ones and if they sound as good as IEMs.

Anyone here buying something interesting from the AliExpress anniversary sale? I'm thinking about picking up some cables.


----------



## ephrank

Just picked up ZS7 & CCA-C10 from AliExpress sale

Really look forward to the upgrades! Hope the ZS7 are a big step up over my trusty daily driver (ZS5 v1)


----------



## Slater

rambomhtri said:


> I've created a separate thread but no one's participating. I basically want to know if there's any IEM adequate for sleeping. I want to take advantage of the Bluetooth cable for the ZS7, so I'm looking for a small IEM that is compatible with the 2 pin connector of the Bluetooth cable of the ZS7. Anyone?



If you search, there’s been numerous discussions and recommendations on IEMs suitable for sleeping. I don’t remember any of the models off the top of my head, but of the ones I personally own I’ve used the following for sleeping. They all fit flat in the ear or are very so small they disappear inside the ear:

Magaosi K3 Pro
QKZ W1 Pro
KZ ZS3
KZ ZS4
Elistooop Mini
MEMT X5
Advanced Sound S2000


----------



## jeromeaparis

pracheta said:


> Hi.
> I want to buy cable for kz ZST PRO(colorful)..which would be the best in terms of quality and budget...I get confused abt .75 mm and .78 mm.
> Also I have kz ZS3... so willwill  cable work or do I have to buy another one for ZS3.
> 
> ...


Hi, KZ cables are .75. 

From my experience,  ZST and ZS3 will not or so few be inproved by better or silver plated cable.
Forget ZSR for clarity, they have very big bass but recessed dark mediums + for young people agressive trebles.
Try better ZSN or ZSN pro, and C10 Both are realy better than ZS3 and ZST colorfull
AS10 sound is still clearer


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

jeromeaparis said:


> Forget ZSR for clarity, they have very big bass but recessed dark mediums + for young people agressive trebles.
> Try better ZSN or ZSN pro, and C10 Both are realy better than ZS3 and ZST colorfull
> AS10 sound is still clearer


Always just buy the AS10. ♡


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, can you please give us the link for your "NiceHCK 8 core cable" that makes C10 & AS10 sound so well !


I never said C10 sounded good with that cable. I will post a link the next time I'm at a computer.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ephrank said:


> Just picked up ZS7 & CCA-C10 from AliExpress sale
> 
> Really look forward to the upgrades! Hope the ZS7 are a big step up over my trusty daily driver (ZS5 v1)


I list got my ZS7 in the mail and started listening and said to myself... "it sounds like other kz's, just a very good one" What I am saying is... I want to try other brands now.


----------



## BrunoC

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Always just buy the AS10. ♡



Well, I must be the only guy that doesn't like the AS10 that much...
I find it very warm, too much actually if the source is a Wolfson chip (like the Fiio E07K). There's no treble sparkle.
It's a bit better with wide bore tips and a bright source, but I still find the mid-bass bleeds a lot into the mids.

Heck, I prefer the ZSN to the AS10 by a mile

The biggest 2018 dissapointments to me: KZ AS10 (too warm) and TRN V80 (piecing nightmare).
The biggest 2018/19 discoveries: KZ ZSN, Sony MH-755, EZAudio T4, **** ****, KZ ZS7


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

pracheta said:


> Hi.
> I want to buy cable for kz ZST PRO(colorful)..which would be the best in terms of quality and budget...I get confused abt .75 mm and .78 mm.
> Also I have kz ZS3... so willwill  cable work or do I have to buy another one for ZS3.
> 
> ...



From your selections it sounds like you are stuck in the past. Try a KZ AS10 and ZS7.


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I list got my ZS7 in the mail and started listening and said to myself... "it sounds like other kz's, just a very good one" What I am saying is... I want to try other brands now.



I think you’d ultimately be happier doing that.

I get the feeling you’re maxed out on what KZ can offer, and I feel like you’ve been at that point for a while now.

Some call it being ready to ‘graduate up’. Or that your ears and/or tastes have matured, or you’re more experienced now. But the bottom line is that at this stage on your audio journey, you know exactly what you like or don’t like.

I would recommend stepping up to something like the $200-$300 category. The $100 category is just going to offer a small, incremental improvement over the KZs you have loads of now. I personally think you’d still be unhappy with that.

That’s why if I were you, I’d at least just up one more tier on top of that. Because you’d be adding more small incremental improvements from your typical $100 set. So going from a $40 KZ all the way to a $200-$300 will be a huge improvement. I saw a huge jump going to my $200 Magaosi K5, because it’s solid resin construction, Knowles drivers, and cable is head and shoulders above even the best KZ. Make sense?

You can even get a fully custom CIEM made that sounds exactly how you want. There’s very affordable CIEM options here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/how-a-custom-in-ear-monitor-is-made-photo-journal.885128/

The beauty of CIEM is perfectly tailored sound and perfectly tailored fit. No more tip rolling, no more fiddling with positioning and seal. It fits the same every time; perfectly comfortably and consistently. And you listen to numerous samples and pick the exact sound signature you want. Even the crossover can be tweaked to your exact specifications. Then never look back.

That may sound like a lot, but if you add up all the $15 and $25 and $35 you’ve spent on KZs that you’re not happy with, you would easily afford a pair. Create a classified post for everything you don’t want, and I’ll bet it will fund your nicer pair without spending another dime.

Just be aware this hobby is like crack. If you get a $300 set, you’re likely going to wonder what a $1k or $2k set sounded like. And then as soon as you hear it in person, you’re going to feel the same about your $300 set as you feel about your $20 KZ now lol


----------



## loomisjohnson

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I list got my ZS7 in the mail and started listening and said to myself... "it sounds like other kz's, just a very good one" What I am saying is... I want to try other brands now.


aptly put--the differentiation between the innumerable models kz has cranked out since the zst is ever more incremental and to accumulate all of them is more about collecting and less about actually listening. apropos of which, i put aside the zs7 after a week or so of use and pulled out the ed9 (for nostalgia's sake). even in the face of all the ambitious multidrivers flooding the market the ed9 is still a very good hang--not hyperrevealing but warm and easy on the ears; sorta analog-sounding, if that means anything.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

BrunoC said:


> Well, I must be the only guy that doesn't like the AS10 that much...
> I find it very warm, too much actually if the source is a Wolfson chip (like the Fiio E07K). There's no treble sparkle.
> It's a bit better with wide bore tips and a bright source, but I still find the mid-bass bleeds a lot into the mids.
> 
> ...



I was disappointed by the AS10 as well, I was surprised by how dark it sounds for a full BA set. Also pleasantly surprised by the ZS7 and ****.


----------



## BrunoC

This Aliexpress' clickbaits is really annoying...

Please keep the bloody cable prices separated from the real IEM prices, will you?


.


----------



## neo_styles

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I was disappointed by the AS10 as well, I was surprised by how dark it sounds for a full BA set. Also pleasantly surprised by the ZS7 and ****.


I've learned that the AS10 is pretty source-dependent. Out of the M0 and A45, I get the darkness you describe and treble detail's pretty lacking. Give it some power (either through my home D30/Magni 3 stack or through the Opus#1), however, and you'll get a good amount of that sparkle back. Even though they're an all-BA set, I guess they appreciate the amplification.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I list got my ZS7 in the mail and started listening and said to myself... "it sounds like other kz's, just a very good one" What I am saying is... I want to try other brands now.


I'm in a similar boat. Not that I find anything wrong with KZ's product line, but I realized that I've given almost all my love to this one niche area of the market and have kinda left my collection by the wayside in the process. It's a dangerous game, though...now I've got some HD6XX and LCD2C on the way. Chances are a new DAC/amp are going to be coming down the line as a result, but at least it's a pleasant change of flavor.


----------



## Deb1995

DallaPo said:


> Yes I have, this is also my page
> 
> To compare the two is difficult, because they have different demands. The DR2 has a larger V signature, but it sounds very natural. And an unbelievably strong bass beat without covering the mids too much. They are very lively and detailed, as are the trebles. The DR2 has a great fun factor.
> 
> ...


Thank you,its a great website. I placed my order for C10 as they are giving it for $20.84 only. I will share my review as soon as I get them.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 29, 2019)

I got my KZ ZS7 and ATE-S in the mail and I'm listening to the classic option today, ATE-S. It sounds more musical and brighter than my dark ATR. Is this the sound signature change? I heard ATR and ATE now sound alike. Do I have an old ATR? If so, I love my ATR. The ATE-S also seems like a winner for $9USD.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

loomisjohnson said:


> i put aside the zs7 after a week or so of use and pulled out the ed9 (for nostalgia's sake). even in the face of all the ambitious multidrivers flooding the market the ed9 is still a very good hang--not hyperrevealing but warm and easy on the ears;


ED9 is a very good hang because it was so heavy that you were actually listening to it while it was hanging beside your ears and not inside them.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 29, 2019)

Slater said:


> I think you’d ultimately be happier doing that.
> 
> I get the feeling you’re maxed out on what KZ can offer, and I feel like you’ve been at that point for a while now.
> 
> ...


I'm not maxxed out on KZ but as you know, the sound signature doesn't change, it just gets better. I'm not so sure I want to graduate to a higher tier. I really like this KZ community and I don't like expensive things, so I'm stuck here.  I will just keep listening to the same old models while everyone collects the new ones (ZSN Pro, CCA C10?) I guess. I will also look at other brands and give you my opinion on KZ and those other models/brands.

I love KZ. I love my AS10. The ZS7 also sounds rad so far... I'm stuck in KZ budget land and for good reason. I think you're right though, for someone that wants to spend $200 on a earphone set, should do so.

So you're saying a CCA C16 ($120USD) won't be much better than a KZ ZS7 ($44USD), etc? Interesting. That's good to know. Maybe I'm at the end of my rope of buying many models of earphones (other than different brands until I find my preferred one... KZ?)

Hey guys, like me or hate me, I'm here to stay.


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> So you're saying a CCA C16 ($120USD) won't be much better than a KZ ZS7 ($44USD), etc?



I don’t have my C16 yet, so I can’t make that statement.

But in general, higher tier gear comes with higher quality drivers (such as Knowles not Bellsing), legit and professional tuning, extensive QC, tighter tolerances such and channel matching, better quality materials, etc.

So yes, as a general rule of thumb, higher tier gear will almost always sound better than a $40 budget IEM.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Okay. I just made a couple orders of other brands... **** **** and CCA C10. I'm going to stay away from KZ purchases for a while until I figure out if I should stick with KZ, other brands, the low priced budget tier, or a higher priced tier with better quality materials, etc.


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Okay. I just made a couple orders of other brands... **** **** and CCA C10. I'm going to stay away from KZ purchases for a while until I figure out if I should stick with KZ, other brands, the low priced budget tier, or a higher priced tier with better quality materials, etc.



You know CCA _is_ a KZ brand, right?

You basically have a ZS7 in a ZSN/ZST shell with tweaked tuning.

It does sound more balanced vs the ZS7, so it is technically different tuning and won’t sound identical. But I just wanted to make you aware in case you didn’t know.


----------



## bhazard

I just got the CCA C16 and I really like it. I prefer the tuning over the AS10 and KZ's standard tuning, but the AS10 is no slouch either. They are good enough that I do not see the need to purchase anything higher end IEM wise.

I don't find myself interested in other companies offerings right now, and I'm not into aliexpress store one off custom brands after being burned by one before. I mean 8 BAs a side for under $80 right now with a good tuning profile... can't beat it.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

C10 is legit dopesauce. Just so good to my ears. Does everything I ask it to do. I'm not an audiophile. I don't listen to classical unless its an orchestral videogame soundtrack, and I really could care less what the producer is doing because frankly, I hate them. Well most of them. 
Nothing distracts me more then listening to high resolution flat phones and noticing all the little details instead of listening to the music. I want to listen to music because I love it. All kinds of it. I once put on a pair of those phones and listened to a song I loved only to be immediately made aware of people in the band tapping their feet on the floor. By the end of the song I wanted to scream. 

Thankfully C10 just delivers good sound whether I'm listening to Enka, or Swedish Death Metal. Electro Swing or Yacht Rock. Hip Hop, or Bluegrass. Doesn't matter. C10 just does it all acceptably well. 

And they only cost me $25.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

neo_styles said:


> I've learned that the AS10 is pretty source-dependent. Out of the M0 and A45, I get the darkness you describe and treble detail's pretty lacking. Give it some power (either through my home D30/Magni 3 stack or through the Opus#1), however, and you'll get a good amount of that sparkle back. Even though they're an all-BA set, I guess they appreciate the amplification.



I would have thought the balanced out of my X7II would provide enough power for them, maybe I should try high-gain mode, though the A10 isn't hard to drive.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> So you're saying a CCA C16 ($120USD) won't be much better than a KZ ZS7 ($44USD), etc? Interesting. That's good to know.



I think the C16 sounds better than the ZS7, but also different. The ZS7 is more fun sounding, the C16 more serious and technical, the ZS7 has more bass slam, the C16 has tighter bass. The C16 sounds more accurate. The **** does detail and stereo imaging better than both, bass is great, but doesn't have the slam of the ZS7 or the tightness of the C16. All three have a nice holophonic soundstage that isn't very large.


----------



## neo_styles

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I would have thought the balanced out of my X7II would provide enough power for them, maybe I should try high-gain mode, though the A10 isn't hard to drive.


It could also just be the sound sig of the X7, which I've heard can be pretty polarizing. If there's one thing I've learned in digging up as much info as I can on the HD650/6XX, it's not just about the numbers. Some stuff just sounds better with different stuff. Granted, it's unlikely that you're ever going to get the AS10 to sparkle like a pair of Beyers, but you do get some of it back on some sources.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

neo_styles said:


> It could also just be the sound sig of the X7, which I've heard can be pretty polarizing. If there's one thing I've learned in digging up as much info as I can on the HD650/6XX, it's not just about the numbers. Some stuff just sounds better with different stuff. Granted, it's unlikely that you're ever going to get the AS10 to sparkle like a pair of Beyers, but you do get some of it back on some sources.



Could be, I'll have to try them on some different sources.


----------



## neo_styles

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Could be, I'll have to try them on some different sources.


Hopefully you find a good match. I think the AS10 rose to the top of the pile for my KZ preferences after I got the O#1. The ZS7 were there, but the combo of O#1 and the Mezes is so addictive that I tend to grab that instead. My son will most likely inherit the ZS7 and M0 now.


----------



## alex5908

Has anybody seen that? It's about AS10.

It's so good that I had bought them before I saw this vid!
I saw this video and was frustrated to say the least. The next day I received the IEMs. It was such a relief. I'd never bought those if I had seen this video before paying for them. There's something wrong with the guy. Don't you think?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

neo_styles said:


> Hopefully you find a good match. I think the AS10 rose to the top of the pile for my KZ preferences after I got the O#1. The ZS7 were there, but the combo of O#1 and the Mezes is so addictive that I tend to grab that instead. My son will most likely inherit the ZS7 and M0 now.



I'll post here if I find out something interesting.



alex5908 said:


> Has anybody seen that? It's about AS10.
> 
> It's so good that I had bought them before I saw this vid!
> I saw this video and was frustrated to say the least. The next day I received the IEMs. It was such a relief. I'd never bought those if I had seen this video before paying for them. There's something wrong with the guy. Don't you think?




I've seen that video, I don't know what was going on there. I don't agree that the AS10 sounds crappy.


----------



## purplesun

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I got my KZ ZS7 and ATE-S in the mail and I'm listening to the classic option today, ATE-S. It sounds more musical and brighter than my dark ATR. Is this the sound signature change? I heard ATR and ATE now sound alike. Do I have an old ATR? If so, I love my ATR. The ATE-S also seems like a winner for $9USD.


If I remember correctly;
ATE-S was the bassiest sounding with slightly cleaner treble.
ATR had less bass volume with grainier treble.
ATE's bass was in-between the 2, while having similar treble as ATR.
But that was 2 years ago when I had all 3. I no longer have an ATE.
For me, if only ATE-S came in non-memory wire, I will be giving them out to like chocolates!


----------



## purplesun (Mar 29, 2019)

As much as I do like the AS10, I can't fully recommend it due to it's dominant warm sound signature. Because of it's signature, it needs to be paired with a playback system with a neutral sound and reasonable power (but not too much power). IMHO, it's not a guaranteed plug-and-play IEM. To my ears, it sound nicely balanced on Hidizs AP80 or Xduoo X3. But it sounds oppressively warm on Fiio 10k or something with big power that elevates the bass even more. When it's balanced with an appropriate player, it has an old school tube-like quality which is quite unique among the IEMS I have. IMHO, AS10 is not an IEM for everyone's musical taste, that's further complicated with DAP/player selection.


----------



## alex5908 (Mar 29, 2019)

purplesun said:


> I can't fully recommend it due to it's dominant warm sound signature.


How about if a person is a basshead? or close to it?  AS10 sounds very nice with all my players. No exception. And weird enough, I get the best sound with Vivo xplay6 musophone. The sound is just terrific to me. I am a 90% basshead.
P.S.
To me AS10 have enough brilliance in the sound to satisfy bassheads and users who do not favor warm sound at all.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 29, 2019)

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I'll post here if I find out something interesting.
> 
> I've seen that video, I don't know what was going on there. I don't agree that the AS10 sounds crappy.


His next video is going to say, "I forgot to burn these in before I made my review video and now they sound amazing!"


----------



## purplesun

alex5908 said:


> How about if a person is a basshead? or close to it?  AS10 sounds very nice with all my players. No exception. And weird enough, I get the best sound with Vivo xplay6 musophone. The sound is just terrific to me. I am a 90% basshead.


That's another useful datapoint for potential AS10 buyers. I am not really a basshead myself and, particularly, dislike it when bass overwhelms the rest of the music.So I prefer the AS10 with some bass control.


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> C10 is legit dopesauce. Just so good to my ears. Does everything I ask it to do. I'm not an audiophile. I don't listen to classical unless its an orchestral videogame soundtrack, and I really could care less what the producer is doing because frankly, I hate them. Well most of them.
> Nothing distracts me more then listening to high resolution flat phones and noticing all the little details instead of listening to the music. I want to listen to music because I love it. All kinds of it. I once put on a pair of those phones and listened to a song I loved only to be immediately made aware of people in the band tapping their feet on the floor. By the end of the song I wanted to scream.
> 
> Thankfully C10 just delivers good sound whether I'm listening to Enka, or Swedish Death Metal. Electro Swing or Yacht Rock. Hip Hop, or Bluegrass. Doesn't matter. C10 just does it all acceptably well.
> ...


What is yacht rock?


----------



## sino8r

loomisjohnson said:


> What is yacht rock?



It's rock for rich folks 

I have no idea what that other stuff is either


----------



## BadReligionPunk

loomisjohnson said:


> What is yacht rock?


LOL. Basically Soft Rock

Think Hall and Oats, Kenny Logins, Ambrosia, Michael McDonald, Steely Dan. That type of stuff.


----------



## alex5908

purplesun said:


> dislike it when bass overwhelms the rest of the music.


Are you sure it does?
I am sure I am not the only one who thinks it does not.


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> LOL. Basically Soft Rock
> 
> Think Hall and Oats, Kenny Logins, Ambrosia, Michael McDonald, Steely Dan. That type of stuff.


you're killing me--i used to have so much respect for you....


----------



## Letm

I agree about the source dependence of the as 10. The as 10 sound with my LG g7 is interesting, but for some reason they sound better with my old htc m8 (that I still keep for sentimental reasons). Still, between my as10  and my tin audio T2, I will always prefer the last one. 

The problem with the as 10, for me, is the level of detail in the sound and not the bass. Although the comparison is not fair, my dt 770 is a bass cannon and has a great level of detail.


----------



## canzz (Mar 30, 2019)

Slater said:


> If you’re willing to spend $100, the ibasso IT01 is amazing.
> 
> It will have the clarity you like (_especially if you remove the nylon fabric portion of the nozzle filter_), with the punchy depth and body you’re craving in the low end. Build quality is great, and the cable is off the hook.
> 
> ...





DynamicEars said:


> Looks like you prefer quality with hard hitting bass? Rather than balance?
> 
> Depend what on your purpose, do you like collecting many iems and keep rolling from one to another or changing iem, or stick to 1 but superior to all those cheaper iems.
> 
> ...





CoiL said:


> +1
> 
> +1
> 
> ...and there is tin t3 coming too









Thanks to you I got the IT01 and I must say this little guy is pretty good! Sound signature fits and also its unexpectedly small and comfy!

This will definitely keep me away from checking earphones regularly, at least for a while, until I jump to higher tiers later on. 

Edit: Also, shockingly, I got it in an amazing speed from Penon in 5 days! I didnt even selected paid shipping.


----------



## rokushoo

KZ why must you do this?  I just received a new set of ATRs that i was planning on modding, but upon listening I immediately noticed they sounded different from my other three. After opening them up I noticed they are using different drivers.This driver has a silver metal shell and seems to be smaller.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  This new version sounds darker than my other ATRs.


----------



## 416805 (Mar 30, 2019)

I was wondering which IEM should i go and buy, the AS06 or CCA C10.

i like something that makes rock music and metal music sounds good (Iron maided, buckethead, aerosmith, the black keys). i don't really need something that sounds good for all genre (since i have MH755 for that). also do anyone know if CCA C10 have crossovers? since iirc zs6 doesn't have one 

any help would be appreciated.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

BadReligionPunk said:


> C10 is legit dopesauce. Just so good to my ears. Does everything I ask it to do. I'm not an audiophile. I don't listen to classical unless its an orchestral videogame soundtrack, and I really could care less what the producer is doing because frankly, I hate them. Well most of them.
> Nothing distracts me more then listening to high resolution flat phones and noticing all the little details instead of listening to the music. I want to listen to music because I love it. All kinds of it. I once put on a pair of those phones and listened to a song I loved only to be immediately made aware of people in the band tapping their feet on the floor. By the end of the song I wanted to scream.



Yes, the C10 is excellent for laid-back listening, they won't fatigue easily, they sound so smooth. I personally love all the little details flying around my head and all the weird little side-sounds instruments and singers make, I find it really impressive to listen to. Don't get the ****, it is a detail monster, I love it.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> His next video is going to say, "I forgot to burn these in before I made my review video and now they sound amazing!"



Haha yes. I think a good reviewer should do that and try different tips, cables and sources before judging.



rokushoo said:


> KZ why must you do this?  I just received a new set of ATRs that i was planning on modding, but upon listening I immediately noticed they sounded different from my other three. After opening them up I noticed they are using different drivers.This driver has a silver metal shell and seems to be smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, that is really bad, it invalidates all reviews. I hate it when manufacturers do that. Had this with a monitor once, rave reviews, received one with a different panel that was quite disappointing.


----------



## DallaPo

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not maxxed out on KZ but as you know, the sound signature doesn't change, it just gets better. I'm not so sure I want to graduate to a higher tier. I really like this KZ community and I don't like expensive things, so I'm stuck here.  I will just keep listening to the same old models while everyone collects the new ones (ZSN Pro, CCA C10?) I guess. I will also look at other brands and give you my opinion on KZ and those other models/brands.
> 
> I love KZ. I love my AS10. The ZS7 also sounds rad so far... I'm stuck in KZ budget land and for good reason. I think you're right though, for someone that wants to spend $200 on a earphone set, should do so.
> 
> ...



You can't really compare the ZS7 with the C16, completely different signatures, but booth are worth it!


----------



## Slater

chancool said:


> also do anyone know if CCA C10 have crossovers? since iirc zs6 doesn't have one
> 
> any help would be appreciated.



Both CCA C10 and KZ ZS6 have crossovers.


----------



## maxxevv

DallaPo said:


> You can't really compare the ZS7 with the C16, completely different signatures, but booth are worth it!



Agreed! 

They are geared towards different music genres and preferences. 

The ZS7 has a prominently elevated bass profile and a general V shaped sound profile.  The C16 is more or less balanced with a very, very shallow V sound signature.  
The details on the C16 come in sounding more 'filled' and 'thick'.  The ZS7 sounding more airy. Both have excellent staging as well as separation for instruments. The C16 having an edge in really complex tracks such as full orchestra classical symphonies. The details from separate instruments come across as being easier to make out compared to the ZS7.  

The ZS7 shines where "energy" is called for in a track such as in pop and dance tracks.  Very punchy and deep bass, very fun sounding signature. The C16 sounds less so, but the bass energy comes across is taut and "on point". 

Both have a bit of treble roll-off, with the C16 sounding smoother but yet not losing detail nor too much energy. The ZS7 having a more elevated, energetic treatment of its treble details but generally not to the point of sibilant though. 

Talking of which, both sound excellent a low to moderately low level volumes. But both will show hints of sibilance once a threshold in volume is breached. It seems to be a driver limit or that the damping of the drivers were not adequate for higher output levels.


----------



## Nimweth

My KZ ZS7 review is now available:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 30, 2019)

The balanced cable I ordered from NiceHCK has arrived! I decided on a "16 Core High-purity blah-blah-blah" variant (still pretty convinced it's all marketing talk in this price range) and am really impressed with what I received.




Honestly, I thought the cable might be too thick based on photos, but it's just about perfect for me in the hand. The weave is tight, but not to the point of making it hard to bend or route. Cable length is right at that sweet spot for pocketability. The fact it comes with a velcro cable wrap makes it a lot easier to keep in place when loading into a case (if you've got the KZ ABS cases, you probably know what I'm talking about).

_But how does it sound, neo?_ That's the tougher question to answer. This is my first balanced cable and it's honestly weird at first, but my ears are still adjusting. Compared to SE using my OKCSC cable, I think everything just gets a little more room to breathe, the warmer signature of the AS10 migrates to something I'd call a little more natural. Still has some of that tizzle in the treble where a cymbal crash doesn't have a whole lot of the overtones, but it's a step in the right direction.

Overall, I'm happy and would recommend this cable to anybody who could run balanced. The markdown due to AE's anniversary sale is just icing on the cake and I've ordered a MMCX variant for the T2 Pro as a result.

Link if interested:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32954926911.html


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 30, 2019)

iBasso IT01 or CCA16? (Wrong place to ask? Lol.)


----------



## TechnoidFR

Nimweth said:


> My KZ ZS7 review is now available:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews



Where with you



LaughMoreDaily said:


> iBasso IT01 or CCA16? (Wrong place to ask? Lol.)



Never had ibasso but cca is, I think, very different. Cca C16 is near of skg n700 signature


----------



## DynamicEars (Mar 30, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> iBasso IT01 or CCA16? (Wrong place to ask? Lol.)



up budget a bit and get Kanas Pro? 

IT01 like ZS7, fun v shaped signature
CCA16 more balance towards bright


----------



## mono-type

Just received my ZS7 yesterday. This is my new favorite KZ IEM. It's miles better than ZS6. Definitely a big improvement over the ZS6, since it has none of that infamous treble spike. IMO, it has the clarity of an AS10, and the punchiness of some warmer KZ's like the ZS10, ES4, etc. I think this is the sound signature combo I've been looking for. It has the best of both worlds, as they say.


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> Just received my ZS7 yesterday. This is my new favorite KZ IEM. It's miles better than ZS6. Definitely a big improvement over the ZS6, since it has none of that infamous treble spike. IMO, it has the clarity of an AS10, and the punchiness of some warmer KZ's like the ZS10, ES4, etc. I think this is the sound signature combo I've been looking for. It has the best of both worlds, as they say.



Same here.

I think ZS7 can be summed up perfectly up by this Aliexpress review:

“_Engineers tried! Imagine that you are in one ear beat sab and 4 speakers. From a long listening ear sulfur itself flies out.”_


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I thought long and hard about buying this one during the sale. Could have picked up for about $32, but am actually really happy with where I am IEM, headphone and earbud wise. Every single post though makes me weezy in my stomach. Sounds like a sig that I would like for a lot of different styles. 

So please quit talking about it. K thanks bye!


----------



## mono-type (Apr 1, 2019)

Slater said:


> Same here.
> 
> I think ZS7 can be summed up perfectly up by this Aliexpress review:
> 
> “_Engineers tried! Imagine that you are in one ear beat sab and 4 speakers. From a long listening ear sulfur itself flies out.”_


LMAO on "ear sulfur". Saw that auto-translated review, too. I died on that one.  

With all the KZ's that I own so far (most of them blind buys), I think this is the one that I'm most satisfied, _so far._ Yes, I'm putting emphasis on "so far", since probably there'll be another new KZ that will tempt me on buying within the next few weeks. XD


----------



## Benik3

Can anyone compare ZSN/ZSN Pro to ZS7?
Thanks


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> Same here.
> 
> I think ZS7 can be summed up perfectly up by this Aliexpress review:
> 
> “_Engineers tried! Imagine that you are in one ear beat sab and 4 speakers. From a long listening ear sulfur itself flies out.”_



Slater, you made me spit my coffee all over the keyboard...  

This is a side benefit of Chi-fi, the amusing Chinese -> English translations. Here is one from my KZ AS10 manual: "Did not use the headset, you need to run after a period of time before they can use the headset unit diaphragm complete drive smoothly, and thus enhance the output quality of performance". Talking about burning in the IEM.


----------



## Slater (Mar 31, 2019)

Benik3 said:


> Can anyone compare ZSN/ZSN Pro to ZS7?
> Thanks



Hi friend, the Pro was just released. I think only 1 HeadFier has it so far (at least 1 that has posted in the ChiFi threads I follow).

I’d wait for more people to get the Pro and weigh in with their opinions, comparisons, etc.

With that said, in general both the regular ZSN and the ZS7 are excellent budget IEMs.

What kind of music do you listen to? And what do you listen to them using?


----------



## Benik3 (Mar 31, 2019)

Slater said:


> Hi friend, the Pro was just released. I think only 1 HeadFier has it so far (at least 1 that has posted in the ChiFi threads I follow).
> 
> I’d wait for more people to get the Pro and weigh in with their opinions, comparisons, etc.
> 
> ...



Hi.
Yeah, ZSN Pro are very new, but the anniversary deal ends tomorrow so I will not wait 
EDIT: I found one review of ZSN Pro here: https://www.priceboon.com/product/kz-zsn-pro/
I have very wide list of songs. From Electro-swing, party, through alternative, Rock, Pop up to folk.
(namely e.g. Caravan Palace, Imagine dragons, Green Day, Billy Talent, Gorillaz, Foo Fighters, The Heavy, Linkin Park, The Frattelis, Royal Republic, Jaromir Nohavica...)
I listen from my mobile phone - currently Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite with Viper4Android and PowerAMP.


----------



## Slater (Mar 31, 2019)

Benik3 said:


> Hi.
> Yeah, ZSN Pro are very new, but the anniversary deal ends tomorrow so I will not wait
> EDIT: I found one review of ZSN Pro here: https://www.priceboon.com/product/kz-zsn-pro/
> I have very wide list of songs. From Electro-swing, party, through alternative, Rock, Pop up to folk.
> ...



If you have a time machine, you could always go forwards in time and read a bunch of reviews on the Pro, and then go back in time to before the sale is over.

Also remember, there’s always another sale coming on Aliexpress. They are every 2 months on average, which would be plenty of time for Pros to get in lots of people’s hands. So if you miss this one, just grab it next time around 

Finally. looking at your music list, I’d get the ZS7 in a heartbeat. Don’t worry about the word “Pro” being behind a name.

ZS7 is compatible with any 2-pin cable, whereas the ZSN has the goofy raised plug, which limits the cables available.


----------



## Benik3

True 
Now I'm really thinking about the Pro version. The review sounds pretty good - it seems that Pro can be very similar to ZS7 in bass.
On Ali they have them now for 21$ and for 32$ with Bluetooth module (ZS7 cost 36$ and what's interesting, they are not even in the official store).


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 31, 2019)

Benik3 said:


> Can anyone compare ZSN/ZSN Pro to ZS7?
> Thanks


Ordered one for my son, but he's not very good with listening notes I'm afraid. If it's simply a bassier ZSN, I could imagine them being a good consumer choice.


----------



## neo_styles (Mar 31, 2019)

Benik3 said:


> True
> Now I'm really thinking about the Pro version. The review sounds pretty good - it seems that Pro can be very similar to ZS7 in bass.
> On Ali they have them now for 21$ and for 32$ with Bluetooth module (ZS7 cost 36$ and what's interesting, they are not even in the official store).


Cheaper than that during the sale. A whole whopping few cents more than the regular ZSN 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cXqCWXeY


----------



## Benik3

Thanks! Very nice price (I assume that the seller is OK).
And it all started today just by buying new ear plugs...


----------



## stephanNL

I currently have the ZS5 v1 and I'm wondering if the ZSN would be an upgrade. I mostly use them via Bluetooth during my workouts at the gym. I mostly listen to electronic music and rap .So bass is important. Not a big fan of super sibilant highs cause of my tinnitus. ZS5 has served me well but the ZSN looks an enticing buy.


----------



## crnbrry

mono-type said:


> Just received my ZS7 yesterday. This is my new favorite KZ IEM. It's miles better than ZS6. Definitely a big improvement over the ZS6, since it has none of that infamous treble spike. IMO, it has the clarity of an AS10, and the punchiness of some warmer KZ's like the ZS10, ES4, etc. I think this is the sound signature combo I've been looking for. It has the best of both worlds, as they say.



Disagreed! The ZS6 is technical, detailed, and has a very large sound stage with a pleasant sound signature. The ZS6's treble spike isn't as large as it's made to be here, and adjusting between ZS6 and ZS7 takes only a few minutes, especially on new ZS6 models with lips where the upper sound signature differs slightly than day-1 ZS6 models. The ZS7 is fantastic as well, however the ZS6 is still my personal favourite IEM.

The ZS6, ZS7, and AS10 are the only KZ models anyone in present day needs to buy. (CCA not included)


----------



## crnbrry

stephanNL said:


> I currently have the ZS5 v1 and I'm wondering if the ZSN would be an upgrade. I mostly use them via Bluetooth during my workouts at the gym. I mostly listen to electronic music and rap .So bass is important. Not a big fan of super sibilant highs cause of my tinnitus. ZS5 has served me well but the ZSN looks an enticing buy.



The darker ZS7 right now for $35 - $37 on Aliexpress is your best bet. It is a step up from the ZS5v1. The ZSN's have slight sibilance in their highs and high-mids.


----------



## 1clearhead

Benik3 said:


> True
> Now I'm really thinking about the Pro version. The review sounds pretty good - it seems that Pro can be very similar to ZS7 in bass.
> On Ali they have them now for 21$ and for 32$ with Bluetooth module (ZS7 cost 36$ and what's interesting, they are not even in the official store).


Ironically, yes! ...The bass on the ZS7 and ZSN PRO are very similar. Both extend really deep, but it all changes in the higher MID and treble ranges. The ZS7 sounds nicely detailed and smooth, while the PRO's sounds crispier, but less harsh than the original ZSN.
That's what I got so far! I'm still burning the ZSN PRO's and probably won't provide further information until later in the week. 

-Clear


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 31, 2019)

crnbrry said:


> The ZS6's treble spike isn't as large as it's made to be here, and adjusting between ZS6 and ZS7 takes only a few minutes, especially on new ZS6 models with lips where the upper sound signature differs slightly than day-1 ZS6 models.
> 
> The ZS6, ZS7, and AS10 are the only KZ models anyone in present day needs to buy. (CCA not included)


Does anyone else agree with crnbrry despite the "sibilance" (and all the new models) the ZS6 is still worth buying?


----------



## SybilLance

chancool said:


> I was wondering which IEM should i go and buy, the AS06 or CCA C10.
> 
> i like something that makes rock music and metal music sounds good (Iron maided, buckethead, aerosmith, the black keys). i don't really need something that sounds good for all genre (since i have MH755 for that). also do anyone know if CCA C10 have crossovers? since iirc zs6 doesn't have one
> 
> any help would be appreciated.



Hi! I have both the KZ AS06 and CCA C10. Both, incidentally within a similar price range, are quite good. The AS06 is exceptional with strings, chamber music and intimate jazz or acoustic settings where recordings would invariably be closed-miked. So is the CCA C10; but, it also excels in practically all other genres and recording environments. Plus, its smooth yet detailed treble makes for longer fatigue-free listening. In short, the CCA C10 is simply a much better in-ear headphone than the AS06, sound-wise.

Fit, being uniquely personal, is another matter.



maxxevv said:


> Agreed!
> 
> They are geared towards different music genres and preferences.
> 
> ...



My thoughts, articulated with clarity and conciseness.


----------



## neo_styles

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does anyone else agree with crnbrry despite the "sibilance" (and all the new models) the ZS6 is still worth buying?


It really depends on what you value more between the bass impact of the ZS7 and the spaciousness of the ZS6. Each has its strengths. IMO, they're different enough to stand on their own merits.


----------



## crnbrry

1clearhead said:


> Ironically, yes! ...The bass on the ZS7 and ZSN PRO are very similar. Both extend really deep, but it all changes in the higher MID and treble ranges. The ZS7 sounds nicely detailed and smooth, while the PRO's sounds crispier, but less harsh than the original ZSN.
> That's what I got so far! I'm still burning the ZSN PRO's and probably won't provide further information until later in the week.
> 
> -Clear



Always take the initial hype with  grain of salt .

The ZSN hype very unwarranted and greatly overstated in many different forums, in my opinion. Narrow sound stage lacking any interesting character, sibilance on highs and vocals. I buy all 3 colors, never use over ZS6, ZS7. They are suitable for backup pair in my backpack.

I buy ZSN Pro, but expect to only have different color resin and gold painted components for same or cheaper price. Many would buy simply for differrnt Pro label. I buy for that reason!


----------



## crnbrry

neo_styles said:


> It really depends on what you value more between the bass impact of the ZS7 and the spaciousness of the ZS6. Each has its strengths. IMO, they're different enough to stand on their own merits.


Agree! Both are best KZ models and ZS6 still stand high. ZS6 can go very low but not as impactful as ZS7, like you say.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does anyone else agree with crnbrry despite the "sibilance" (and all the new models) the ZS6 is still worth buying?



I just bought another pair, so yeah I think the ZS6 is still worth buying.


----------



## Slater

crnbrry said:


> The ZSN hype very unwarranted and greatly overstated in many different forums, in my opinion. Narrow sound stage lacking any interesting character, sibilance on highs and vocals. I buy all 3 colors, never use over ZS6, ZS7. They are suitable for backup pair in my backpack.



For $12, the ZSN are excellent. Name me 5 IEMs for $12 or less that are significantly better.


----------



## Benik3

Are the KZ ZS7 still shipped with the memory cable?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 1, 2019)

Slater said:


> For $12, the ZSN are excellent. Name me 5 IEMs for $12 or less that are significantly better.


Why 5? The ZSN is only 1. I name the KZ ATR.


----------



## mono-type (Apr 2, 2019)

crnbrry said:


> Disagreed! The ZS6 is technical, detailed, and has a very large sound stage with a pleasant sound signature. The ZS6's treble spike isn't as large as it's made to be here, and adjusting between ZS6 and ZS7 takes only a few minutes, especially on new ZS6 models with lips where the upper sound signature differs slightly than day-1 ZS6 models. The ZS7 is fantastic as well, however the ZS6 is still my personal favourite IEM.
> 
> The ZS6, ZS7, and AS10 are the only KZ models anyone in present day needs to buy. (CCA not included)


Well, it's your opinion. YMMV. I should've clarified that I don't like the sound of the ZS6 in its stock configuration (starline tips), but it definitely improved when I used the knock-off Comply T400s that you could buy in Aliexpress, though personally I'm not really a fan of foam tips, since I don't like the hassle of all those pinching and rolling before wearing, and they're disposable. I want something that could be put into your ears immediately and could be used for a long time, like silicone tips. Good thing I've learned of the Ostry OS200 tips that I've read somewhere in this thread, and with those, the ZS6 became one of my most used KZs again, since it helped reduced the harsh treble and boosted the bass a bit. Still, I stand by my opinion that the ZS7 is an improvement over ZS6. Again, YMMV.

I do much agree on your last paragraph, though. I own all three that you mentioned, and indeed they are the must-buy KZ models, especially the AS10 (if you're a detail freak) and ZS7 (if you want it all). Personally, I would add ED16 (in which for some reason has "ZS7" printed on the shells) to those three.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> For $12, the ZSN are excellent. Name me 5 IEMs for $12 or less that are significantly better.



I'm still waiting for my ZSN Pro and do not have the ZSN, but the EZ Audio D4 are the most impressive budget pair and i carry them always with me alongside with the edr1.


----------



## nxnje

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. I guess the pressure of the ear tip is causing the sound of your ear to distort somehow. Have you tried earbuds? Though I don't know if there are any recent good ones and if they sound as good as IEMs.
> 
> Anyone here buying something interesting from the AliExpress anniversary sale? I'm thinking about picking up some cables.


Already tried some earbuds.
The problem is the earbuds which are suited for my listening sessions should have lot of sub-basa and impactful bass, something that i didn't find with pk2 shells.
Mx500 shells are not for me, too big and i feel sick after 10 minutes with them in my ears.

I love music and i have to find some workarounds, but it's really hard everytime.


----------



## BrunoC

KZ ZS6 is still one of the best KZ's. I use it with foam tips.
No piercing highs at all. 
FANTASTIC sound and stage. I got a green backup ZS6 for 21€. Incredible value.

If you want piercing highs just get the TRN V80


----------



## Superluc

1clearhead said:


> Ironically, yes! ...The bass on the ZS7 and ZSN PRO are very similar. Both extend really deep, but it all changes in the higher MID and treble ranges. The ZS7 sounds nicely detailed and smooth, while the PRO's sounds crispier, but less harsh than the original ZSN.
> That's what I got so far! I'm still burning the ZSN PRO's and probably won't provide further information until later in the week.
> 
> -Clear


I hope you will compare it with also the C10.

The ZSN fit me so well that i may change them, as my daily driver, only over an upgrade with the same fit


----------



## Benik3

I ordered the KZ ZS7 and I can not wait for it! 
(Now I have MOE-SS01)


----------



## nxnje

BrunoC said:


> KZ ZS6 is still one of the best KZ's. I use it with foam tips.
> No piercing highs at all.
> FANTASTIC sound and stage. I got a green backup ZS6 for 21€. Incredible value.
> 
> If you want piercing highs just get the TRN V80



I am not treble sensitive and i've liked my zs6 with silicone wide bore tips.
I think the ZS6 are great but the ZS7 have a more mature sound with a bit more coherent and organic timbre.

The v80s are extremely aggressive on the lower treble but they're one of the most technically capable IEMs under 50$. I think they're outstanding for the price.


----------



## BrunoC

nxnje said:


> I am not treble sensitive and i've liked my zs6 with silicone wide bore tips.
> I think the ZS6 are great but the ZS7 have a more mature sound with a bit more coherent and organic timbre.
> 
> The v80s are extremely aggressive on the lower treble but they're one of the most technically capable IEMs under 50$. I think they're outstanding for the price.



I agree that the ZS7 has a better organic timbre and is more coherent. I use with wide bore tips to get some treble extension, and it works.
The ZS6 and ZS7 and different and I love them both.

About the V80, I simply can't stand the ultra-agressive treble, even with foam tips.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

nxnje said:


> Already tried some earbuds.
> The problem is the earbuds which are suited for my listening sessions should have lot of sub-basa and impactful bass, something that i didn't find with pk2 shells.
> Mx500 shells are not for me, too big and i feel sick after 10 minutes with them in my ears.
> 
> I love music and i have to find some workarounds, but it's really hard everytime.



I haven't used any earbuds that had good bass, I guess that is because they don't seal well enough.


----------



## nxnje

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I haven't used any earbuds that had good bass, I guess that is because they don't seal well enough.


I have a pair of NiceHCK EB2 which have great bass.
The main problem is the fitting so it's not about earbuds not being capable in providing a good bass response but wearing the earbuds in the right and comfortable way.


----------



## crnbrry

Slater said:


> For $12, the ZSN are excellent. Name me 5 IEMs for $12 or less that are significantly better.



Fair point, but I don't think this is saying much, just that they're low end headphones that are okay.

I still think ZSN were hyped out proportion. ZSN is not better than early IEM like ATE, ATR, which can be had for same or cheaper. ZSN one of KZ lowest models in my opinion, too narrow, no separation, uninteresting sound. Beauty over sound.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

crnbrry said:


> Fair point, but I don't think this is saying much, just that they're low end headphones that are okay.
> 
> I still think ZSN were hyped out proportion. ZSN is not better than early IEM like ATE, ATR, which can be had for same or cheaper. ZSN one of KZ lowest models in my opinion, too narrow, no separation, uninteresting sound. Beauty over sound.


Which is your subjective opinion that no one can argue. Most people's subjective opinion,  mine included,  are that ZSN is great.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 1, 2019)

crnbrry said:


> Fair point, but I don't think this is saying much, just that they're low end headphones that are okay.
> 
> I still think ZSN were hyped out proportion. ZSN is not better than early IEM like ATE, ATR, which can be had for same or cheaper. ZSN one of KZ lowest models in my opinion, too narrow, no separation, uninteresting sound. Beauty over sound.


Yea, you said that the first time, we get you.  ...But, the majority of KZ owners might not think the way you do, since it's all about personal preference and taste.

For most KZ owners it brought a new design with unique detachable cables, which at the time was hard to get at such a low price, and it wasn't the average typical V-shape sound, since it provided a new and interesting sonic signature to the sound, which sounded crispy, lively, and even above average for the price. Many that still own them today still vouch for their interesting sonic approach.
You probably just received a bad unit, since anything is possible in Chi-fi.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I haven't used any earbuds that had good bass, I guess that is because they don't seal well enough.


What do you define as good bass? There are plenty of earbuds that kill. I'm a basshead and there are good heavy thumping buds too.


----------



## HerrXRDS

I'll take the ZS6 with a little EQ over ZS7 any day.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

nxnje said:


> I have a pair of NiceHCK EB2 which have great bass.
> The main problem is the fitting so it's not about earbuds not being capable in providing a good bass response but wearing the earbuds in the right and comfortable way.



I see, I usually have less problems with earbuds in that respect than with earphones. Do you use foamies on them?



BadReligionPunk said:


> What do you define as good bass? There are plenty of earbuds that kill. I'm a basshead and there are good heavy thumping buds too.



I meant bass that isn't rolled-off. Good to know there are earbuds that don't have that problem.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Already tried some earbuds.
> The problem is the earbuds which are suited for my listening sessions should have lot of sub-basa and impactful bass, something that i didn't find with pk2 shells.
> Mx500 shells are not for me, too big and i feel sick after 10 minutes with them in my ears.
> 
> I love music and i have to find some workarounds, but it's really hard everytime.





LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I haven't used any earbuds that had good bass, I guess that is because they don't seal well enough.



Ditch the foam covers and wear the earbuds sideways. You'll have all the sub bass you ever wanted.


----------



## megapowa

Can anyone help me out please? 

I'M looking for an upgrade cable an 8 core silver one which is compatible with the KZ ZS7. 

I want this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-C...expid=d002816f-8bd1-40ce-86eb-cae4e6381873-13 But this isn't working with the kz zs7 because of the 2 pin connector style. 

This one seems to be working with every 2 pin connector: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...e3-4869-9210-fcaec027b8e8&transAbTest=ae803_4

But I'm unsure.


----------



## neo_styles

megapowa said:


> Can anyone help me out please?
> 
> I'M looking for an upgrade cable an 8 core silver one which is compatible with the KZ ZS7.
> 
> ...


The last NiceHCK cable you linked is exactly what I've ordered to use with all my KZ pairs. I currently have the 16-core version and it works just fine with the ZS7, AS10, ED16, and Noble X. Considering they use the same 2-pin connector, I can confidently say you're okay.

When it comes to linking stuff from AE, though, please delete everything after the .html (so the question mark and everything afterwards). It keeps the links from being too long and head-fi doesn't take kindly to affiliate links.


----------



## megapowa

neo_styles said:


> The last NiceHCK cable you linked is exactly what I've ordered to use with all my KZ pairs. I currently have the 16-core version and it works just fine with the ZS7, AS10, ED16, and Noble X. Considering they use the same 2-pin connector, I can confidently say you're okay.
> 
> When it comes to linking stuff from AE, though, please delete everything after the .html (so the question mark and everything afterwards). It keeps the links from being too long and head-fi doesn't take kindly to affiliate links.



Thank you!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

Slater said:


> Ditch the foam covers and wear the earbuds sideways. You'll have all the sub bass you ever wanted.



Interesting, I'll have to try that some time, I don't think I have earbuds lying around that are in a good state.


----------



## neo_styles

Today's gratuitously-unnecessary office setup. Really, it's there for the volume knob...the 360mW going to the AS10 is just icing on the cake.


​


----------



## Nimweth

megapowa said:


> Can anyone help me out please?
> 
> I'M looking for an upgrade cable an 8 core silver one which is compatible with the KZ ZS7.
> 
> ...


Try this one: it's a hybrid copper/silver type. I am using it on the ZS7 and it sounds great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FYXPCWP?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_pd_title


----------



## mono-type

crnbrry said:


> I still think ZSN were hyped out proportion. ZSN is not better than early IEM like ATE, ATR, which can be had for same or cheaper. ZSN one of KZ lowest models in my opinion, too narrow, no separation, uninteresting sound. Beauty over sound.


Indeed, beauty over sound. Admittedly, it's one of the well-designed KZ IEM's in terms of aesthetics.



Benik3 said:


> I ordered the KZ ZS7 and I can not wait for it!
> (Now I have MOE-SS01)


You made the right choice. You'll definitely get your money's worth.

ZSN is, like @crnbrry said, over-hyped, from what I also observed. The moment some people said it was basically an upgraded ZST (in which I personally don't like the sound), it's a turn-off for me. Like I said above, it looks cool, though.



LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> I haven't used any earbuds that had good bass, I guess that is because they don't seal well enough.


That's always the problem with earbuds; the seal. They always fall off my ears. That's why I never spent past 10 USD on earbuds.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Today's gratuitously-unnecessary office setup. Really, it's there for the volume knob...the 360mW going to the AS10 is just icing on the cake.
> 
> ​



Nice setup. Cool looking candy cane cable. And you have good taste in music 

I also like that AS10 upgrade cable. Which one is it?


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Nice setup. Cool looking candy cane cable. And you have good taste in music
> 
> I also like that AS10 upgrade cable. Which one is it?


Thanks all around, bud. Funny what happens when I seem to hoard cables at work. The big cable is technically my 10-footer Amazon special that I use on a pair of SHP9500, but they're up to the task here, too.

As for the IEM cable, it's courtesy of OKCSC:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32854364617.html


----------



## Podster (Apr 1, 2019)

megapowa said:


> Can anyone help me out please?
> 
> I'M looking for an upgrade cable an 8 core silver one which is compatible with the KZ ZS7.
> 
> ...



Who said that TRN cable is not working with ZS7? Now mine is balanced but there is a 3.5 option





Does not fit any different than KZ's own black cable


----------



## Slater (Apr 1, 2019)

megapowa said:


> Can anyone help me out please?
> 
> I'M looking for an upgrade cable an 8 core silver one which is compatible with the KZ ZS7.
> 
> ...



The TRN cable fits my ZS7 just fine. In fact, I’m listening to it using that cable right now.

The TRN cable doesn’t have the rounded and flat part (as shown in the link in my signature), but _none_ of the aftermarket cables do. Only genuine KZ cables have the rounded and flat part. But that doesn’t stop 2-pin cables from plugging in and working.


----------



## neo_styles (Apr 1, 2019)

Slater said:


> The TRN cable fits my ZS7 just fine. In fact, I’m listening to it using that cable right now.
> 
> The TRN cable doesn’t have the rounded and flat part (as shown in the link in my signature), but _none_ of the aftermarket cables do. Only genuine KZ cables have the rounded and flat part. But that doesn’t stop 2-pin cables from plugging in and working.


And, had it not been for the post that helps you identify which pin goes to which, I think I'd have been lost for hours when I was trying to use my balanced cable. Now I just remember the mnemonic "flat Earth" (flat side = ground) and everything's peachy. Ironically, the positive pin on my balanced cable has a blue dot rather than a red one. Makes for easy ID, but had me head-scratching a bit.


----------



## hakuzen (Apr 1, 2019)

tried my cyan-green as10 a few days ago. they sound as awful as when first tried them.
even bought a red-black one, to check if my first unit was defective. when tried this new unit, the impression was slightly better; should try it again, but i'm not anxious to do it.
i'm with clavinetjunkie: they are a mess, sound completely off. will try massive equalizing, to check if i can listen to them.. ever.

zs6 is still my fav kz, just with an small equalizing. and i've tried almost all kz and cca c10..


----------



## SybilLance (Apr 1, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> zs6 is still my fav kz, just with an small equalizing. and i've tried almost all kz and cca c10..



Echo that. The ZS6 remains my favorite *KZ* as well.



A couple of months ago I received the green ZS6 that sounded brighter and just tonally more metallic in the middle and upper registers compared to my beloved red one. Seeing my disappointment my husband took the green and said he'll let his fellows try to fix it. Last weekend it came back with a dent at one edge of the right housing and some minute scuff marks that weren't there before. Long story short the green ZS6 is now an entirely different in-ear: improved balance and dynamics, tonally more accurate, perceptibly better resolution yet with the same headstage (sound still confined to the head) compared to the red ZS6.

The C10 still gets my preference for *all* my in-ears—I'm still listening to the C16 which has been interrupted by the green ZS6. In fine, the latter has now dissuaded me from ever considering the ZS7.

I'm thinking with my personal projects almost done and with retirement coming soon I'd like to give away my other KZ in-ears that in my opinion are sonically redundant: the AS06 and the ED16. I've already given away the ATE. My son just became the recipient of the ZSN, which _is_ a great in-ear, even without consideration of price or brand.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

crnbrry said:


> Fair point, but I don't think this is saying much, just that they're low end headphones that are okay.
> 
> I still think ZSN were hyped out proportion. ZSN is not better than early IEM like ATE, ATR, which can be had for same or cheaper. ZSN one of KZ lowest models in my opinion, too narrow, no separation, uninteresting sound. Beauty over sound.


I agreed. I love the ATR too. I'm not sure why I dont really like the ZSN. Maybe piercing highs/treble? If people realized they can buy a ZS7, AS10 and ATR, etc. I'm not sure why they'd waste money on a ZSN. It's just blah and for a lower priced market. Why not spend a couple bucks more and get an incredible ZS7?


----------



## SybilLance (Apr 2, 2019)

mono-type said:


> Indeed, beauty over sound. Admittedly, it's one of the well-designed KZ IEM's in terms of aesthetics.
> 
> ZSN is, like @crnbrry said, over-hyped, from what I also observed. The moment some people said it was basically an upgraded ZST (in which I personally don't like the sound), it's a turn-off for me. Like I said above, it looks cool, though.



Hmm...I'm just curious: Do you happen to own or at least have _listened_ to the ZSN within a period of time sufficient to form a basis for your subjective opinion, even one such as: "...it's basically an upgraded ZST?"



*EDIT:* Deleted subordinating conjunction *that* after the comparative_ *as* _and added quotation marks to be quite clear that I am quoting mono-type and that I am *not* the one asserting that the ZSN is "basically an upgraded ZST".


----------



## Zerohour88

SybilLance said:


> Hmm...I'm just curious: Do you happen to own or at least have _listened_ to the ZSN within a period of time sufficient to form a basis for your subjective opinion, even one such as that it's basically an upgraded ZST?



I'm pretty sure its the typical anti-hype train that people also like to jump on. As I always like to remind people, stick to impression of people you trust and confirm by comparing it with gears that you both own.

they think the ZSN is over-hyped. Cool. They can probably trust people who also think the same thing.

gonna share what my friend (usually buy kilobucks) who also dabbles a bit in chi-fi said about the ZSN (direct convo copy since can't be bothered to edit):

Vocal separation is kinda meh, but decent soundstage
Bass didn't have enough attack, but had some decent sub bass rumble to it
Vocals broke apart though, mids resolution isn't as good
But seriously, for 15 bux? Can't go wrong with it
It's pretty good for a mainstream IEM
Though can't really be called a monitor, of course
I think it's a slight u shape, sounds like the IT04 except obviously worse in every way
Had some good amount of sparkle to it
Good driver speed, rendered FaLiLV without issues
No missed notes
But the lack of 200hz bass made it sound a bit flabby
Vocals are decently clear, but slightly more recessed
At least it's mids are quite good
Goes without saying that it blows the SE215 out the water
Maybe not sharply V shaped, but yeah
That wide soundstage made listening to it a very nice experience
Or more like L shaped?
Didn't feel any sibilance or anything like a sharp treble
Yeah, that lack of bass attack made eastnewsound sound a bit flabby and lacking oomph
Not to mention the vocal resolution


----------



## mono-type (Apr 2, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Hmm...I'm just curious: Do you happen to own or at least have _listened_ to the ZSN within a period of time sufficient to form a basis for your subjective opinion, even one such as that it's basically an upgraded ZST?


To be honest, nope, I don't own nor listened to the ZSN yet, but I'm kinda eyeing the ZSN Pro. And no, I don't mean any offense to ZSN owners. As they say, different strokes for different folks.  It's just that the IEMs that are in the same vein of the sound sig of ZST aren't my cup of tea, since they are kinda flat to my tastes. Yeah, I want clear highs and mids, but I also want some bass oomph, like the ZS7, in which it has everything I am looking for.


----------



## BrunoC

hakuzen said:


> tried my cyan-green as10 a few days ago. they sound as awful as when first tried them.
> even bought a red-black one, to check if my first unit was defective. when tried this new unit, the impression was slightly better; should try it again, but i'm not anxious to do it.
> i'm with clavinetjunkie: they are a mess, sound completely off. will try massive equalizing, to check if i can listen to them.. ever.
> 
> zs6 is still my fav kz, just with an small equalizing. and i've tried almost all kz and cca c10..



The AS10 sounds a mess, too warm, unless you use it with wide bore tips - like KZ Whirlwinds, and a more bright source.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

mono-type said:


> That's always the problem with earbuds; the seal. They always fall off my ears. That's why I never spent past 10 USD on earbuds.



Yes, that's usually my experience with them as well. I've had a pair of Sony MDR-888 for a long time and they fit pretty well when used with foamies. Don't think they work very well anymore though.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Ditch the foam covers and wear the earbuds sideways. You'll have all the sub bass you ever wanted.



Alwaya premitting you can wear them without problems as if you have little ears, wearing a mx500 shell could be difficult.


----------



## hakuzen

BrunoC said:


> The AS10 sounds a mess, too warm, unless you use it with wide bore tips - like KZ Whirlwinds, and a more bright source.


last time i tried, a few days ago, used spiral dots (king of wide bore tips), source xduoo x20, stock firmware, which uses sabre DAC ES9018Q2M (known as in the bright side).
"lose yourself to dance", daft punk, for example, was unbearable. bass was completely off, and flooding mids and everything.
when i first tried them, my impression was "incoherent" (not rounded, music was sounding strange, like a not synced up band, strange peaks and dips everywhere), besides of extremely dark and big highs roll-off. even if i was a basshead, i'd found their bass sounding off.
when i received a second unit, my impression was better, but not much better. maybe it's just they are too far from my fav signature and from what i search in an iem. i can understand than others love them.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm pretty sure its the typical anti-hype train that people also like to jump on. As I always like to remind people, stick to impression of people you trust and confirm by comparing it with gears that you both own.
> 
> they think the ZSN is over-hyped. Cool. They can probably trust people who also think the same thing.
> 
> ...



Pretty much agree with your friend. Well except that I think these are W shaped LOL. The only shape he didn't name off. Anyway I usually gravitate to heavy distorted guitar music with these on. Punk probably sounds the best, and with the majority of Punk music being an absolute mess recording wise, they render bad recordings very well with a lot of energy.


----------



## Podster (Apr 3, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Echo that. The ZS6 remains my favorite *KZ* as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well you know the Pod just hates the ZS6 LOL







As far as the ZSN you have to have a lean to the Mid-Centric persuasion to really appreciate this iem and of course don't over drive or juice them and they can return spades to you in detail and clarity. In truth I've spent hundreds on some iem's that have trouble keeping up with the mid-range of the ZSN. Sure you can over drive them in a heartbeat and simply destroy that magic and it has lead many to believe or feel how LMD feels about them, grated they are not an iem for noisy environments but I love them when I'm reading and my pea brain is multi tasking the visual and aural senses I'm currently in the Honeymoon phase with the ZS7's and they are such a jump (bass) wise from the BA10's which I've grown quite fond of If I (just speaking for old Pod's ears here) had to rank my fave KZ's right now it would be ZS6, BA10, ZST/ZSN (because they are both Mid Happy, as Sybil says the ZSN really is an upgraded and smoother ZST), ZSR (ZS7 gaining on it), ZS4, ZSA and ED9's which will never fall from grace because they were the first iem that showed me the Budget Boys meant business for pennies


----------



## eclein

Podster the BA10's sound excellent don't they? Once you sort out the fit and they burn in, they are fun to listen to. I always felt like they were loose if the cable moved and was constantly checking so I got a shirt clip and now they can stay all day if I felt like it. Why do you think they didn't really going sales wise?


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> Podster the BA10's sound excellent don't they? Once you sort out the fit and they burn in, they are fun to listen to. I always felt like they were loose if the cable moved and was constantly checking so I got a shirt clip and now they can stay all day if I felt like it. Why do you think they didn't really going sales wise?



Well, if I had to guess I would say it’s the shape. They _look_ uncomfortable. Even if that’s the furthest thing from the truth, they look like they’d have problems fitting and/or be painful.

I know that’s why I never bought them. And I have talked to others that said the exact same thing.

If there was some local store where I could demo them, or a friend or family member I’d definitely give them a try. But I don’t have any local stores around me that sell KZ.


----------



## HungryPanda

I dont find the BA10 uncomfortable in the least


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> Well, if I had to guess I would say it’s the shape. They _look_ uncomfortable. Even if that’s the furthest thing from the truth, they look like they’d have problems fitting and/or be painful.
> 
> I know that’s why I never bought them. And I have talked to others that said the exact same thing.
> 
> If there was some local store where I could demo them, or a friend or family member I’d definitely give them a try. But I don’t have any local stores around me that sell KZ.


Personally, I just got to that point where I looked at what I had and said "ok, that's enough for now." Maybe the BA10 will work its way into the collection at some point, but it won't be for a while. I will agree that they don't like like they should be comfortable, but appearances are known to be deceiving.


----------



## Podster

eclein said:


> Podster the BA10's sound excellent don't they? Once you sort out the fit and they burn in, they are fun to listen to. I always felt like they were loose if the cable moved and was constantly checking so I got a shirt clip and now they can stay all day if I felt like it. Why do you think they didn't really going sales wise?



Well because not enough people who got them worked to get the tip cable combination down but KZ did kind of boxed themselves in with these, sad part is once burnt and addressed cable tip wise they are a top notch sub $80 iem. They can be restrictive for those with smaller ears and also those who need a little deeper tip depth. The large body and short nozzle (see Slaters comments) can really create issues for some. Like I said at $75 KZ kind of missed the mark with design but SQ is as you see in my top 3 KZ's! IMHO if they had fit like my ZS4's fit (of course this could just be me and my ears too) they would have sold a butt load of them because they hype train (orders) would have careened off the track Even at 3/4 a Benjamin LOL 

I'll tell ya that Pod's got some nerve putting his cheap old ZSA's on a AK I'm still partial to Hungry's post


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Well because not enough people who got them worked to get the tip cable combination down but KZ did kind of boxed themselves in with these, sad part is once burnt and addressed cable tip wise they are a top notch sub $80 iem. They can be restrictive for those with smaller ears and also those who need a little deeper tip depth. The large body and short nozzle (see Slaters comments) can really create issues for some. Like I said at $75 KZ kind of missed the mark with design but SQ is as you see in my top 3 KZ's! IMHO if they had fit like my ZS4's fit (of course this could just be me and my ears too) they would have sold a butt load of them because they hype train (orders) would have careened off the track Even at 3/4 a Benjamin LOL
> 
> I'll tell ya that Pod's got some nerve putting his cheap old ZSA's on a AK I'm still partial to Hungry's post



You’re not the only ZSA fan out there.

I wasn’t too fond of them until I totally covered the rear vents with tape.

I definitely like the compact size, shape, and build quality though. I’ll be curious if KZ ever releases a 2nd revision at some point. They often go with an 18 month revision cycle.

They have been surprisingly quiet in 2019, so who knows what they’ve  been cooking up in the secret KZ labs


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> You’re not the only ZSA fan out there.
> 
> I wasn’t too fond of them until I totally covered the rear vents with tape.
> 
> ...



CCA models, lol!


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> CCA models, lol!



Agreed. But Honda and Toyota still churn out stuff even though they’re busy with Acura and Lexus!

Sure, they just released the ZSN Pro. But last year they were busting out a new IEM every month!

Heck, they still have a few models left from that original 2018 list they never released YZ46, YZ66, and YZ63.


----------



## B9Scrambler

...


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> You’re not the only ZSA fan out there.
> 
> I wasn’t too fond of them until I totally covered the rear vents with tape.
> 
> ...



Guess I did not need the tape since I sleep in mine, pillow must be doing the job


----------



## SybilLance

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm pretty sure its the typical anti-hype train that people also like to jump on. As I always like to remind people, stick to impression of people you trust and confirm by comparing it with gears that you both own.
> 
> they think the ZSN is over-hyped. Cool. They can probably trust people who also think the same thing.
> 
> ...



The way your "buy kilobucks" friend gives his impressions on the ZSN is as if he was voicing his thoughts out loud and on the fly as he was listening. 

It's a fair and agreeable assessment, since I also heard the same extended, linear bass with only that slight mid-bass curve, the shallow mid-range recession and of course the energetic, sparkly treble. No, I haven't heard the SE215.



mono-type said:


> To be honest, nope, I don't own nor listened to the ZSN yet, but I'm kinda eyeing the ZSN Pro. And no, I don't mean any offense to ZSN owners. As they say, different strokes for different folks.  It's just that the IEMs that are in the same vein of the sound sig of ZST aren't my cup of tea, since they are kinda flat to my tastes. Yeah, I want clear highs and mids, but I also want some bass oomph, like the ZS7, in which it has everything I am looking for.



No offense taken. And I appreciate your honest answer; indeed, the fact that you don't own the ZSN or that you haven't actually listened to it may be discerned from your post.

However, here's the Rub:

Do you think it's fair to the other members for you to publicly voice such negative thoughts or opinions about a certain in-ear headphone—the KZ ZSN in this case—without ever giving that in-ear an actual, personal listen, even for a limited amount of time?

Let's take your phrases "beauty over sound" and "some people said it was basically an upgraded ZST". In proper context the first is already derogatory while the second is dismissive. Certainly we all are entitled to our own opinions here. Nevertheless, your statements taken as a whole, given the negative connotation, may just bring into focus a different kind of honesty, intellectual honesty.  

Perhaps the right to say our opinions, to be heard, is better when tempered with a bit of prudence and responsibility, don't you think so? 

Peace and best regards. 



Podster said:


> Well you know the Pod just hates the ZS6 LOL
> 
> As far as the ZSN you have to have a lean to the Mid-Centric persuasion to really appreciate this iem and of course don't over drive or juice them and they can return spades to you in detail and clarity. In truth I've spent hundreds on some iem's that have trouble keeping up with the mid-range of the ZSN. Sure you can over drive them in a heartbeat and simply destroy that magic and it has lead many to believe or feel how LMD feels about them, grated they are not an iem for noisy environments but I love them when I'm reading and my pea brain is multi tasking the visual and aural senses
> 
> If I (just speaking for old Pod's ears here) had to rank my fave KZ's right now it would be ZS6, BA10, ZST/ZSN (because they are both Mid Happy, *as Subil says the ZSN really is an upgraded and smoother ZST*), ZSR (ZS7 gaining on it), ZS4, ZSA and ED9's which will never fall from grace because they were the first iem that showed me the Budget Boys meant business for pennies



Podster Dear, if by "Subil" you mean me, I'm afraid I didn't say anything about the ZSN being an upgraded ZST. It was in fact mono-type (see above) who stated, "...some people said it was basically an upgraded ZST...". I was asking him a question referring to that phrase. Really should have used quotation marks—as a matter of fact I edited my post and did place those quotation marks. I apologize for any confusion I've caused.


----------



## Podster

Podster Dear, if by "Subil" you mean me, I'm afraid I didn't say anything about the ZSN being an upgraded ZST. It was in fact mono-type (see above) who stated, "...some people said it was basically an upgraded ZST...". I was asking him a question referring to that phrase. Really should have used quotation marks—as a matter of fact I edited my post and did place those quotation marks. I apologize for any confusion I've caused. [/QUOTE]

My apologies on both accounts @SybilLance , I need to slow down and stop hopping around. One waits 40 minutes in this thread and it may be two pages advanced! But I do think the ZSN is pretty much an upgraded ZST in all aspects


----------



## mono-type (Apr 2, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Let's take your phrases "beauty over sound" and "some people said it was basically an upgraded ZST". In proper context the first is already derogatory while the second is dismissive. Certainly we all are entitled to our own opinions here. Nevertheless, your statements taken as a whole, given the negative connotation, may just bring into focus a different kind of honesty, intellectual honesty.


LOL that "beauty over sound" phrase didn't even came from me. It was from @crnbrry (though I agreed on his statement), The bit about ZST, however, indeed came from me. XD  Well, my apologies if I came as condescending or something to you. I didn't meant to be.

Anyway, no need to get triggered or something. Relax, and let's not make things serious business too much. It's a hobby meant to be enjoyed, after all. Just enjoy the Chi-Fi goodness KZ (and perhaps other brands like CCA, BQEYZ, etc.) offer.


----------



## SybilLance

Podster said:


> My apologies on both accounts @SybilLance , I need to slow down and stop hopping around. One waits 40 minutes in this thread and it may be two pages advanced! But I do think the ZSN is pretty much an upgraded ZST in all aspects



No harm done, Podster.   Haven't had that much time with the ZST (borrowed it from a friend) to properly form an impression much less remember its sound signature. But I'll take your word for it.


----------



## SybilLance

mono-type said:


> LOL that "beauty over sound" phrase didn't even came from me. It was from @crnbrry (though I agreed on his statement), The bit about ZST, however, indeed came from me. XD  Well, my apologies if I came as condescending or something to you. I didn't meant to be.
> 
> Anyway, no need to get triggered or something. Relax, and let's not make things serious business too much. It's a hobby meant to be enjoyed, after all. Just enjoy the Chi-Fi goodness KZ (and perhaps other brands like CCA, BQEYZ, etc.) offer.



Not triggered or something. Far from it. Just pointing out the pitfalls of asserting as fact something one has no personal knowledge about. 

And I'm probably the most relaxed person here at the moment. Just had a wonderful massage while listening to 80s R&B. That's it. Time for my beauty sleep.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> You’re not the only ZSA fan out there.
> 
> I wasn’t too fond of them until I totally covered the rear vents with tape.
> 
> ...


CCA C04 is based on KZ ZSA judging by descriptions (and even connectors, which are a bit special for ZSA, as far as I understand). They are quite similar, with C04 being milder V-shaped to by ears. 
I love ZSA design, but I was surprised that it is a bit loose in my ears.
CCA C04's  fit is very nice to me.

It helped to start me to collect CCA


----------



## pbui44

I finally started using this gray mesh zip pouch for storing my mouse (it’s original purpose), but I realized my DAP is just a little larger than my mouse and the holder strap could also hold IEMs with detachable cables!  Pretty nifty...can’t find it on Gearbest anymore, so just go to wish.com, make an account (Google Plus login no longer works, as it is now gone  ), search for mouse storage and look for the multicolored mesh pouches for free plus $2.00 shipping each, which is cheaper than those KZ ZSAs inside.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


> The C10 still gets my preference for *all* my in-ears—I'm still listening to the C16 which has been interrupted by the green ZS6. In fine, the latter has now dissuaded me from ever considering the ZS7.


The ZS6 has dissuaded you not buy a ZS7 or the C16? I'm assuming the C16?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

hakuzen said:


> tried my cyan-green as10 a few days ago. they sound as awful as when first tried them.
> even bought a red-black one. i'm with clavinetjunkie: they are a mess, sound completely off. will try massive equalizing, to check if i can listen to them.. ever.


AS10? It sounds like you're talking about something completely different.


----------



## neo_styles

LaughMoreDaily said:


> AS10? It sounds like you're talking about something completely different.


AS10 comes in cyan. Colorway isn't my preference, but it's an option.


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZS6 has dissuaded you not buy a ZS7 or the C16? I'm assuming the C16?



LMD, please direct me to where I said that as I don’t own any of the CC iem’s not one! Furthermore I have no plans of buying any of those or the Tear Drop KZ’s especially the ones with the visible circuit boards showing through. 
I have already purchased a ZS7 to go with all 4 color ZS6’s, I have stated several times I like the metal bodied models with exception of ZS4, ZST and ZSR.


----------



## SybilLance

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZS6 has dissuaded you not buy a ZS7 or the C16? I'm assuming the C16?



Tee-Hee!   LaughMore you placed the wrong person on the right quote...or is it the other way around? 

Anyway, wrong mistake.   Poor Podster. 

I wrote those words. And my Gorgeous Gentrified Green ZS6 did dissuade me from ever considering getting the ZS7. I don't own the ZS7, but have now listened to it extensively as to form my impressions about its sound, or more accurately, how it reproduces my music through my gear. Yes, that means I prefer my green ZS6 to the ZS7. I do have the CCA C16, which I describe as a *Rhapsody in Blue:*



Dibs on that moniker!

Its sibling the C10 is still tops in my humble collection because I haven't finished listening to the C16 (interrupted by my old-new toy the Green ZS6, remember?). This personal ranking may or may not change after I'm done.

Hope everything is crystal..? Cheers!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


> LMD, please direct me to where I said that as I don’t own any of the CC iem’s not one! Furthermore I have no plans of buying any of those or the Tear Drop KZ’s especially the ones with the visible circuit boards showing through.
> I have already purchased a ZS7 to go with all 4 color ZS6’s, I have stated several times I like the metal bodied models with exception of ZS4, ZST and ZSR.


I don't know why I keep getting confused when I read people's quotes. Maybe they should stop quoting more than one person at a time. That's confusing.

As far as I know the ZS4 is plastic and not metal? I have one at home.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SybilLance said:


> Its sibling the C10 is still tops in my humble collection because I haven't finished listening to the C16 (interrupted by my old-new toy the Green ZS6, remember?). This personal ranking may or may not change after I'm done.


The C10 is better than the ZS6? I guess I dont need to order it then.  Should I anyway?


----------



## nxnje

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The C10 is better than the ZS6? I guess I dont need to order it then.  Should I anyway?


C10 is not necessarily better than ZS6 objectively.
I think it's more about personal preferences.
The ZS6 is more edgy and aggressive while the C10 is warmer, smoother and in my case more comfortable, so even more suited for everyday use.
The lower region on the ZS6 can be better in sub-bass while the bass texture is comparable even if a bit more technical on the ZS6.
Mids are less recessed on the C10 and has a more natural tonality. 
Highs are not boosted like the ZS6, but the ZS6 are more capable in terms of detail retrieval.
Soundstage is bigger on the ZS6.
I think it's more about different preferences and tonality.. the ZS6 is really bright while the C10 is on the warmer side.


----------



## Podster (Apr 3, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't know why I keep getting confused when I read people's quotes. Maybe they should stop quoting more than one person at a time. That's confusing.
> 
> As far as I know the ZS4 is plastic and not metal? I have one at home.



No problem LMD, it's just no one really likes being miss quoted The ZS4 is a plastic bodied iem and of course you should still order the ZS6 based on nxnje's take

Sweet @SybilLance , that cable pairing truly does make them look "Rhapsody in Blue" and I'm good with your coining of that moniker


----------



## Mouseman

SybilLance said:


> Tee-Hee!   LaughMore you placed the wrong person on the right quote...or is it the other way around?
> 
> Anyway, wrong mistake.   Poor Podster.
> 
> ...


That is a *beautiful* cable, and goes nicely with the buds and tips. I have the same or a similar cable (might be more cores) for my blue DMGs and another for my blue FH1s that is silver and blue, I love them.


----------



## Deveraux

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...22-441b-b2ee-b62eae9e1839&transAbTest=ae803_5

Is this genuine? I missed the sale. Go with this or wait for another sale?


----------



## mono-type

@Slater: I just stumbled upon your guide on the "green cable" fix. Any updates on your guide? I have a couple of greening cables that I want to give some life again, and I want to know more of the process you've done.


----------



## Nimweth

SybilLance said:


> Tee-Hee!   LaughMore you placed the wrong person on the right quote...or is it the other way around?
> 
> Anyway, wrong mistake.   Poor Podster.
> 
> ...


I like that cable too. Have you got a link?


----------



## Benik3

Deveraux said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...22-441b-b2ee-b62eae9e1839&transAbTest=ae803_5
> 
> Is this genuine? I missed the sale. Go with this or wait for another sale?



The seller has pretty low rating and is pretty newly opened. I wouldn't risk it...


----------



## nxnje

Podster said:


> No problem LMD, it's just no one really likes being miss quoted The ZS4 is a plastic bodied iem and of course you should still order the ZS6 based on nxnje's take


If he wants a metal shell then yes.
The ZS6 is way more trebly than the ZS3 and watching the graphs more trebly compared ti the ZS4 as well.
If i could tip, the price of the ZS6 now is a real steal.



Deveraux said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...22-441b-b2ee-b62eae9e1839&transAbTest=ae803_5
> 
> Is this genuine? I missed the sale. Go with this or wait for another sale?


Missaudio store and AK Audio sell the ZS7 around that price as well, buying from these shops should make you safer about the support you could receive in case of problems.


----------



## Podster

Man I have to say these are rapidly climbing my KZ chart Could be just the combo with the Shanling M1 but they are really opening up and delivering the goods


----------



## Deveraux

Benik3 said:


> The seller has pretty low rating and is pretty newly opened. I wouldn't risk it...





nxnje said:


> Missaudio store and AK Audio sell the ZS7 around that price as well, buying from these shops should make you safer about the support you could receive in case of problems.



Well, I didn’t see missaudio store listing.. thanks for the info. That seller has got good ratings. AK is expensive.

Good to get it from missaudio?

I have the ZS5 v1 and I love them. Almost got the ZS7, but recent posts are making me confused. Go for the ZS6 or ZS7 for an absolute upgrade? I don’t want any little downgrade in any aspect from what I have.


Also, what cable to buy? Got one TRN 8 core one and one side doesn’t work. It’s loose on the ZS5 too. Get the Nicehck one or go for replacement trn?


----------



## SybilLance (Apr 3, 2019)

Deveraux said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-ZS7-Earphones-4BA-1DD-Hybrid-In-Ear-Headphones-HIFI-Bass-Headset-DJ-Monitor-Earphone-Earbuds/32997027945.html?
> 
> Is this genuine? I missed the sale. Go with this or wait for another sale?



Well XLtrade has a local store here at Shopee.ph and I have bought many audio and related products from that local store. Their customer service representative is quick to respond to queries and accommodating. Every time I make a purchase I leave a chat reminder to have everything thoroughly checked and securely packed, to which they are most receptive. They ship quickly and so far I received all items ordered from them well ahead of the estimated date of arrival. Moreover, they seem to have significantly lower prices on certain items.

OTOH, the AliExpress store may be run differently. 

As an alternative, MissAudio store at AliExpress has the ZS7 for $35. XLtrade sells theirs for $34.89.

Here's the MissAudio link:

KZ ZS7 Earphones 4BA+1DD Hybrid In Ear earphone HIFI Bass Headset DJ Monitor Earphone
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ylbX6A4

In case you're wondering, I'm using the AliExpress app and one gets discounted prices when buying through the app.



Nimweth said:


> I like that cable too. Have you got a link?



Sure! 

8 Core Silver Plated Blue Copper Cable 2.5/3.5/4.4mm Balanced Earphone Upgrade Cable With MMCX/2Pin KZ ZST TRN V80 CCA
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b9B2EYtK


*Edit*: Added MissAudio link.


----------



## neo_styles

Deveraux said:


> Well, I didn’t see missaudio store listing.. thanks for the info. That seller has got good ratings. AK is expensive.
> 
> Good to get it from missaudio?
> 
> ...


I'll give a vouch for NiceHCK. Great braid, soft and flexible cable, really like the velcro tie they give you to keep the cable wrapped.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> don't know why I keep getting confused when I read people's quotes. Maybe they should stop quoting more than one person at a time. That's confusing



There is good reason to quote more than one person at a time.  The posting guidelines tell us to do so.  We are meant to NOT post several posts in a row.  If no one has posted since your last post and you suddenly have another thought you can use the edit function to add that.

Also if someone has made a long post and you are only replying or commenting on a small portion of it, you can highlight that part and then choose quote or reply.  This is what I did when quoting you...I did not include that last bit about the ZS4.

Just in case someone does not know the difference between the two, if you hit reply a quote of the whole post will appear in your reply box.  If you hit quote, it will be in memory until you insert the quote.  This is what you can use to multiquote several people.  Just keep choosing quote for each post you wish to comment on and then when you are ready, insert them all at once.   Just remember to place your comments under each one separately.   I know... sounds confusing but just experiment.  Nobody knows this stuff at the beginning.


----------



## B9Scrambler

The CCA C04 sounds like a standard KZ, and the ZSN Pro sounds like a CCA. Those who like the C10 should find this model to be quite pleasing to the ear. The more energetic, standard ZSN seems more to my tastes so far.


​


----------



## 1clearhead

Update on the *KZ ZSN PRO*:

Surprisingly, so far the ZSN PRO is a probable winner at 50 hours burning them in they sound like a step-up to the original ZSN!

At first try, you will quickly notice a better sounding extended sub-bass response, less midrange harshness, and better extended hi-end treble response. Now at 50 hours, they sound really stable and more mature than its original ZSN counterpart. There is practically almost no bleed from the bass to lower midrange, and it seems that KZ did a good job in the midrange to treble peaks and sibilance, which the original ZSN would encounter at times with certain songs from random category of selected genres. I also noticed that they seem to play at least 2 dbs louder in volume than the original ZSN, which is a plus for anyone wanting a louder IEM with little to sacrifice in volume!

I will plan to post PIC's later this week, since I think these are really worthy of its value and probably a step-up to its original ZSN predecessor.
...I might just pickup the "gray" PRO's as well, since the price is just as low as the original ones! 

Lastly, I will give more details if any changes occur at 100 hours of play time.


-Clear


----------



## Danfish98

Slater said:


> You’re not the only ZSA fan out there.
> 
> I wasn’t too fond of them until I totally covered the rear vents with tape.
> 
> ...


What did taping the rear vents do for the sound?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

1clearhead said:


> Update on the *KZ ZSN PRO*:
> 
> Surprisingly, so far the ZSN PRO is a probable winner at 50 hours burning them in they sound like a step-up to the original ZSN!
> 
> ...


Daaaaannnng. The pro is louder? The OG ZSN is already insanely loud. 
Looking forward to your finals on these.


----------



## neo_styles

1clearhead said:


> Update on the *KZ ZSN PRO*:
> 
> Surprisingly, so far the ZSN PRO is a probable winner at 50 hours burning them in they sound like a step-up to the original ZSN!
> 
> ...


Sounds like my son is going to love them. He won't even have to pretend to be excited.

Side note: managed to snag one of those novelty on-ears for my 5-year old daughter that had a unicorn horn. I don't think she's ever sounded more excited to get something and I've bought that girl tons of My Little Pony stuff. Made me a pretty happy dad.


----------



## SybilLance

Good news for my _Kababayans_ out there!

The KZ ZSN Pro is now being offered for as low as ₽685.00 or ~$13.15 in 2 stores at Shopee.ph with free shipping. That's even lower than the original regular ZSN. And with the 4/4 Sale only for today you can get the ZSN Pro for much less using a Sitewide voucher and Shopee coins.

With my coins I could knock it down to ₽578 or ~$11.10 with free shipping. At these prices I might be tempted to get one for my daughter. She'd love the gray with the black JC Ally 8-core ZSN cable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Any other ATR lovers here? It's a mini AS10 and perfect for use during bad weather like hurricanes, tornados and earthquakes.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Any other ATR lovers here? It's a mini AS10 and perfect for use during bad weather like hurricanes, tornados and earthquakes.



Wow, what part of Canada are you in?   Do you get those all in one day? LOL


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow, what part of Canada are you in?   Do you get those all in one day? LOL



ROTFLMAO, not too mention I about spit coffee all over my monitor


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow, what part of Canada are you in?   Do you get those all in one day? LOL



Usually only on weekends.


----------



## Slater

Deveraux said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...22-441b-b2ee-b62eae9e1839&transAbTest=ae803_5
> 
> Is this genuine? I missed the sale. Go with this or wait for another sale?



They don’t make counterfeit ZS7, so yeah it’s genuine.


----------



## Slater (Apr 3, 2019)

mono-type said:


> @Slater: I just stumbled upon your guide on the "green cable" fix. Any updates on your guide? I have a couple of greening cables that I want to give some life again, and I want to know more of the process you've done.



I had some trouble with the latest batch of Sharpie markers I bought from Amazon. I’m trying to determine if they changed the formula, or if is a problem with certain colors or what.

I have been trying to find the same marker assortment locally but having trouble, which would help me determine what the issue is. If Sharpie did change their formula, I will order the Amazon Basics markers and try those.

Basically I don’t want to give directions if they don’t even work properly. The idea with Sharpies was they’re consistent and available everywhere.

So keep being patient while I continue my testing and I’ll let everyone know as soon as the How2 is ready.

In the mean time, hang on to the green cables, as it doesn’t hurt anything. The green will all be covered up, whether there’s a little or a lot.


----------



## mono-type (Apr 4, 2019)

Slater said:


> I had some trouble with the latest batch of Sharpie markers I bought from Amazon. I’m trying to determine if they changed the formula, or if is a problem with certain colors or what.
> 
> I have been trying to find the same marker assortment locally but having trouble, which would help me determine what the issue is. If Sharpie did change their formula, I will order the Amazon Basics markers and try those.
> 
> ...


That's great to know, @Slater. Would look forward to your guide as you improve your method on dying the cables. Fortunately, Sharpies are easy to come by at my area. So only Sharpies would do, and not any other brands of permanent markers, aside from AmazonBasics that you mentioned?


----------



## 0Siegfried0 (Apr 4, 2019)

@1clearhead  Which one do you prefer between ZSN pro and CCA C10?


----------



## stuck limo

Was there a second revision of the AS10 in Black color? [see below] If so, does anyone have it and can they comment on the changes? 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G33XTW8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Cronnie

So looks like I might be getting a new set after one side of my ED16s stopped working, been a while since I've checked out anything KZ related so any suggestions on something similar/a potential upgrade considering I was very happy with the fit and sound of the ED16s?

Also on a somewhat related note I contacted the seller on AliExpress and they asked me to record a video of the problem? What would be the best way of going about that? I would assume using my phone and recording that I have them hooked up and playing a song to show the right side working and then no sound coming out of the left side? Sounds obvious but thought I'd ask


----------



## mono-type

Cronnie said:


> So looks like I might be getting a new set after one side of my ED16s stopped working, been a while since I've checked out anything KZ related so any suggestions on something similar/a potential upgrade considering I was very happy with the fit and sound of the ED16s?


Since I also own the ED16, which is one of my current favorite KZs, and you're willing to spend a bit more, then get the ZS7.


----------



## Sylmar

mono-type said:


> Since I also own the ED16, which is one of my current favorite KZs, and you're willing to spend a bit more, then get the ZS7.


I'm glad to see that others appreciate the ED16. Such a nice IEM.


----------



## mono-type

Sylmar said:


> I'm glad to see that others appreciate the ED16. Such a nice IEM.


I love how comfortable the ED16 is to my ears. It's pretty much a scaled-down ZSR (in which I also like), sound-wise. For an IEM on such a small shell, this packs a punch.


----------



## neo_styles

Cronnie said:


> Also on a somewhat related note I contacted the seller on AliExpress and they asked me to record a video of the problem? What would be the best way of going about that? I would assume using my phone and recording that I have them hooked up and playing a song to show the right side working and then no sound coming out of the left side? Sounds obvious but thought I'd ask


Seems like the standard copy-paste "troubleshooting" done by these companies. One seller wanted me to do the same thing to prove I had a DOA pair of bone-conducting headphones. With no power/status LED, kinda defeats the point, but I took a video and sent it anyway. Suffice to say they weren't satisfied. Last time I ever did business with those guys.


----------



## DynamicEars

1clearhead said:


> Update on the *KZ ZSN PRO*:
> 
> Surprisingly, so far the ZSN PRO is a probable winner at 50 hours burning them in they sound like a step-up to the original ZSN!
> 
> ...





0Siegfried0 said:


> @1clearhead  Which one do you prefer between ZSN pro and CCA C10?



About to ask @1clearhead the exact same question. I got my C10 on my desk today, and leave it for burn in process, actually I won't play in this budget area anymore, since I got enough time trapped in KZ sucking hole last time, but of course found budget gem like ZSN was great. For me now, Im happy with Moondrop Kanas Pro as my daily iem, but was really tempted to get C10 because of its positive reviews and hype. A bit regret to take but since I got it cheap enough at $23 something, so its fine I can give it to my family later on. at 0 hours sub bass not as deep as ZSN, (more over if compared to Kanas Pro of course) and too much mid bass bleed, already using spiral dots which is normally will make bass more textured and reducing mid bass bleed.
mid is ok, and high mids are noticeable safer tuning, no harsh or peak here. Soundstage is quite good. Again, at 0 hours. Im leaving them on burning rig right now.

Anddd I got ZSN pro on the way also. So, is the bass on ZSN pro better than C10? i assume ZSN pro can take deeper and better texture here. maybe around same quality mids and high mids, but narrower soundstage maybe?


----------



## 1clearhead

0Siegfried0 said:


> @1clearhead  Which one do you prefer between ZSN pro and CCA C10?


Very interesting question, since I recently asked myself that question, as well!

My thoughts would be, if the ZSN PRO's would have been out before the C10, I would have been content with the PRO's. But, knowing now that the PRO's leans more towards a V-type sound signature, and a very good and competitive one for that matter, I am very happy to own the C10 for its more balanced approach to basically all genre's. They both play in a more mature manner, one being V-shaped, while the other balanced. They are slightly different enough for me to like them both equally! But, I can see this clearly being a tug-of-war between the ZSN PRO -VS- C10! Though, I can nick-pick more details with the C10, while the PRO's brings a crisp and airy approach. In the end, it's probably going to be anybody's guess or personal choice. ...You can't go wrong with either of them!

-Clear


----------



## BrunoC

ZS7 + Wide Bore Tips (KZ Whirlwinds) -> Treble + soundstage are extended

= Pure Bliss (from subass to high treble).


----------



## 1clearhead

...I'm interested more on how the CCA CA4 will play on this scenario having the ZSN PRO on one corner, and C10 on the other!


----------



## 1clearhead

Thanks to @Slater!...I am able to be the proud owner of a KZ ZS7, which are hard to get and where it's originally made...in China!
I will give some impressions soon on the already positive sounding ZS7.


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> Very interesting question, since I recently asked myself that question, as well!
> 
> My thoughts would be, if the ZSN PRO's would have been out before the C10, I would have been content with the PRO's. But, knowing now that the PRO's leans more towards a V-type sound signature, and a very good and competitive one for that matter, I am very happy to own the C10 for its more balanced approach to basically all genre's. They both play in a more mature manner, one being V-shaped, while the other balanced. They are slightly different enough for me to like them both equally! But, I can see this clearly being a tug-of-war between the ZSN PRO -VS- C10! Though, I can nick-pick more details with the C10, while the PRO's brings a crisp and airy approach. In the end, it's probably going to be anybody's guess or personal choice. ...You can't go wrong with either of them!
> 
> -Clear


Clear, is the Pro shell exactly identical to that of the regular ZSN, including nozzle shape, dimensions (diameter, length) and projection angle? It'll help me decide to get it at around $11 for my daughter. She has my smallish ears and I think maybe also the shape and angle of my external meatus.

If exactly identical, then it'll be perfect as her graduation gift add-on.


----------



## SoundChoice

neo_styles said:


> Sounds like my son is going to love them. He won't even have to pretend to be excited.
> 
> Side note: managed to snag one of those novelty on-ears for my 5-year old daughter that had a unicorn horn. I don't think she's ever sounded more excited to get something and I've bought that girl tons of My Little Pony stuff. Made me a pretty happy dad.



Just wait until she finds out there are unicorn headphones with dual drivers.


----------



## Superluc

1clearhead said:


> Very interesting question, since I recently asked myself that question, as well!
> 
> My thoughts would be, if the ZSN PRO's would have been out before the C10, I would have been content with the PRO's. But, knowing now that the PRO's leans more towards a V-type sound signature, and a very good and competitive one for that matter, I am very happy to own the C10 for its more balanced approach to basically all genre's. They both play in a more mature manner, one being V-shaped, while the other balanced. They are slightly different enough for me to like them both equally! But, I can see this clearly being a tug-of-war between the ZSN PRO -VS- C10! Though, I can nick-pick more details with the C10, while the PRO's brings a crisp and airy approach. In the end, it's probably going to be anybody's guess or personal choice. ...You can't go wrong with either of them!
> 
> -Clear


Stock tips and cable ?


----------



## Superluc

What was...



...my hand slipped again 

Incoming ZSN Pro


----------



## DynamicEars

1clearhead said:


> Very interesting question, since I recently asked myself that question, as well!
> 
> My thoughts would be, if the ZSN PRO's would have been out before the C10, I would have been content with the PRO's. But, knowing now that the PRO's leans more towards a V-type sound signature, and a very good and competitive one for that matter, I am very happy to own the C10 for its more balanced approach to basically all genre's. They both play in a more mature manner, one being V-shaped, while the other balanced. They are slightly different enough for me to like them both equally! But, I can see this clearly being a tug-of-war between the ZSN PRO -VS- C10! Though, I can nick-pick more details with the C10, while the PRO's brings a crisp and airy approach. In the end, it's probably going to be anybody's guess or personal choice. ...You can't go wrong with either of them!
> 
> -Clear



How about soundstage comparison? original KZN is narrow, is it bigger now? on par with C10 or better? Thanks


----------



## Zerohour88

stuck limo said:


> Was there a second revision of the AS10 in Black color? [see below] If so, does anyone have it and can they comment on the changes?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G33XTW8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I'd bet on it being just re-seller banking on people thinking its a revision and buying due to twitchy fingers. 

they should be busy readying up their 16BA model, why waste time "retuning" an older model


----------



## stuck limo

Zerohour88 said:


> I'd bet on it being just re-seller banking on people thinking its a revision and buying due to twitchy fingers.
> 
> they should be busy readying up their 16BA model, why waste time "retuning" an older model



Was "black" originally part of the lineup or was that added later?


----------



## Zerohour88

stuck limo said:


> Was "black" originally part of the lineup or was that added later?



its not any "black"-er than the standard AS10, as far as I can see. They came in black and cyan originally.


----------



## stuck limo

These appear to be 3 different colors....maybe it's the lighting though. @Zerohour88


----------



## ephrank

Those of you using 0.78mm 2-pin cables - Do you think it's very stressful to the KZ sockets? It's very tempting to get some 16 core balanced cables for my ZS7 (still in transit), but I don't want to cause damage or shorten the usable life ot them


----------



## Zerohour88

stuck limo said:


> These appear to be 3 different colors....maybe it's the lighting though. @Zerohour88



those are just renders, you can compare actual pics from the amazon listing and from somewhere like Massdrop, its basically the same.


----------



## stuck limo

ephrank said:


> Those of you using 0.78mm 2-pin cables - Do you think it's very stressful to the KZ sockets? It's very tempting to get some 16 core balanced cables for my ZS7 (still in transit), but I don't want to cause damage or shorten the usable life ot them



No problems at all using them on my KZ Zs3.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 5, 2019)

SybilLance said:


> Clear, is the Pro shell exactly identical to that of the regular ZSN, including nozzle shape, dimensions (diameter, length) and projection angle? It'll help me decide to get it at around $11 for my daughter. She has my smallish ears and I think maybe also the shape and angle of my external meatus.
> 
> If exactly identical, then it'll be perfect as her graduation gift add-on.


Nozzle shape and all other angles are the same, but the only difference I see is the alloy back plate sticks out slightly more maybe to accommodate the slightly thicker dynamic driver on the PRO's (thicker from front to back due to the double magnet dynamic and crossover placement). Plus, the PRO seems to feel just slightly heavier probably due to the added alloy and the slightly thicker dynamic driver.

This is what I got so far. ...I'll provide PIC's later in the weekend for everyone to see.


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> How about soundstage comparison? original KZN is narrow, is it bigger now? on par with C10 or better? Thanks


So far, soundstage on the ZSN PRO's definitely sounds bigger than the original ZSN and on par with the C10. Though the C10, in a sense, sounds more holographic. But, the BIG soundstage on the PRO's still has me completely amazed due to the better tuning, nonetheless!


----------



## 1clearhead

Superluc said:


> Stock tips and cable ?


Yes!


----------



## SybilLance

1clearhead said:


> Nozzle shape and all other angles are the same, but the only difference I see is the alloy back plate sticks out slightly more maybe to accommodate the slightly thicker dynamic driver on the PRO's (thicker from front to back due to the double magnet dynamic and crossover placement). Plus, the PRO seems to feel just slightly heavier probably due to the added alloy and the slightly thicker dynamic driver.
> 
> This is what I got so far. ...I'll provide PIC's later in the weekend for everyone to see.



Muchas Gracias mi Amigo Claro!


----------



## stuck limo

Slater said:


> P.S. - To the advanced IEM builders/modders out there, as you can see from the exploded diagram this would be an excellent host for turning into a hybrid DD + BA. The shell is easy to open, it's comfortable as heck, and there's plenty of room inside for a crossover in the shell & a BA driver inside the nozzle tube. Looking at the above photo, it almost looks as if KZ was planning that all along, and* it wouldn't surprise me if a "ZS4" comes out* as a dual hybrid using this same shell as they already have the shell tooling.



ZS3e came out with a retune and I have seen no mention of it anywhere. 

https://www.amazon.com/Customized-H...zs3e&qid=1554454444&s=gateway&sr=8-3-fkmrnull


----------



## Sylmar (Apr 5, 2019)

stuck limo said:


> ZS3e came out with a retune and I have seen no mention of it anywhere.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Customized-H...zs3e&qid=1554454444&s=gateway&sr=8-3-fkmrnull


I have them and I absolutely love the retuning. I only wish they came in black (edit: they do).


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> Muchas Gracias mi Amigo Claro!


De nada.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 5, 2019)

Sylmar said:


> I have them and I absolutely love the retuning. I only wish they came in black (edit: they do).



I did not find a black ZS3e


----------



## Sylmar

mbwilson111 said:


> I did not find a black KS3s



https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/32...d=1968amp-zlxOfQkyMa6vpXUDp53tsA1554471731090

There seem to be more sellers. Weird that the black color is so limited.


----------



## Slater (Apr 5, 2019)

stuck limo said:


> ZS3e came out with a retune and I have seen no mention of it anywhere.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Customized-H...zs3e&qid=1554454444&s=gateway&sr=8-3-fkmrnull



Is the “retune” referring to retuning the original ZS3 into the ZS3e, or is it referring to the original ZS3e into a ZS3e v2?

Sounds vague.


----------



## ShakyJake

Here is a "shootout" comparison review between three recent KZ models: AS06, AS10, BA10. None of them get a lot of love. The reviewer seems to prefer the Tin T2/T3 over these KZ models

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/b8tazz/the_kz_flagship_shootout_as06_vs_as10_vs_ba10/


----------



## stuck limo

Slater said:


> Is the “retune” referring to retuning the original ZS3 into the ZS3e, or is it referring to the original ZS3e into a ZS3e v2?
> 
> Sounds vague.



Ah, sorry, I mean: ZS3 was retuned to a ZS3e version 1.



Sylmar said:


> I have them and I absolutely love the retuning. I only wish they came in black (edit: they do).



Can you do a comparison of the ZS3 vs ZS3e? (and maybe the ZS3e vs Slater Mod?) I watched a YouTube video and the guy said the ZS3e sounded better but also sounded "hollow".



@Slater I used your Slater Mod on the ZS3. I really like what it did, but I am noticing now the highs can be somewhat piercing. It seems the foam kept those frequencies at bay. It's definitely not bad, and I've only encountered it on a couple of tracks so far, so right now I'm enjoying the tighter bass and clearer mids especially. It's not as "fun" sounding though, for sure.


----------



## Leo-rume

I've had the ZS3e's for about a week now and I've been comparing it closely with the regular ZS3's, and here's what I think;

The ZS3 used for this comparison is the one with the slater mod done on them. 

At first listen, what is clearly obvious is that the ZS3e is clearly much bassier than the ZS3, although after continuous listen, it becomes obvious that the bass is not as tight or articulated as that on the modded ZS3. The highs on the ZS3e are a bit more pronounced and sparkly while the mids are just a tad bit more recessed. Generally the ZS3 sounds more natural to listen, but the ZS3e are definitely more fun and exciting to my ears. I find them very much suited to old recordings. It gives them that much needed warmth. For modern music (especially electronic), It can get a bit overwhelming sometimes, I listened to Black Eyed Pea's "Request Line" and there was just so much "boom"... Too much. I can't say much about soundstage, they're very similar, but the ZS3 sounds more airy especially the vocals. With the ZS3E, there's a certain kind of warmth added to the vocals which might either be a good or bad thing depending on personal preferences. I personally love that. Both sound really clear. No muffled sound, but the modded ZS3 just edges its counterpart slightly in clarity.

I listened to both directly from my smartphone. Volume levels seem to be almost exactly the same.

Some tracks I used for testing;

Enya - My! My! Time flies!
Michael Jackson - Liberian Girl
Kat Edmondson - Sparkle and Shine
Smokie - For a Few Dollars More
First Aid Kit - I Just Needed A Friend
The Mamas and The Papas - No Salt On Her Tail


And on a side note. 
Initially when I did the slater mod on the ZS3, I took out both the foams and the red cloth-like filters. I tried it on and the sound was much more open with much better controlled bass, but I noticed some harshness and sibilance here and there same as someone just pointed out. So I replaced the filter onIy and it solved the problem. The clarity and bass tightness still maintained but the harshness gone, although still a bit sibilant in some sibilant prone tracks but overall that mod turns the ZS3 from an okay IEM into a really good one. And I'm just sitting here wondering why the Hell it wasn't tuned like this in the first place.


----------



## stuck limo (Apr 5, 2019)

Leo-rume said:


> I'
> And on a side note.
> Initially when I did the slater mod on the ZS3, I took out both the foams and the red cloth-like filters. I tried it on and the sound was much more open with much better controlled bass, but I noticed some harshness and sibilance here and there same as someone just pointed out. So I replaced the filter onIy and it solved the problem. The clarity and bass tightness still maintained but the harshness gone, although still a bit sibilant in some sibilant prone tracks but overall that mod turns the ZS3 from an okay IEM into a really good one. And I'm just sitting here wondering why the Hell it wasn't tuned like this in the first place.



Good review, that tells me what I want to know.

I may have to get a second ZS3 set, I lost one of my red filters somehow. Does anyone know if they're sold separately?


----------



## Slater

stuck limo said:


> Good review, that tells me what I want to know.
> 
> I may have to get a second ZS3 set, I lost one of my red filters somehow.



Same filters come on EDR1 and EDR2. They can be found for a few dollars. So that would be the cheapest way to get some red filters


----------



## HungryPanda

I ordered ZS3e so will mod my ZS3 once they arrive


----------



## stuck limo

Slater said:


> Same filters come on EDR1 and EDR2. They can be found for a few dollars. So that would be the cheapest way to get some red filters



I'm finding them for about 5-9 bucks, but all they ship from Hong Kong/China. At that price and wait time, I may as well just get a second set of ZS3 delivered Monday.


----------



## Slater

stuck limo said:


> I'm finding them for about 5-9 bucks, but all they ship from Hong Kong/China. At that price and wait time, I may as well just get a second set of ZS3 delivered Monday.



That’s cool; Amazon to the rescue.

But FIY:

$3.73

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/372382543778


----------



## ephrank

First impression: CCA C10

Purchased CCA C10 from AliExpress 3.28 sale - AUD $35

In my hands: Excellent construction - Zinc alloy plates feel beefy and have a nice finish. The dynamic drivers, BAs are clearly visible behind the transparent shell. Overall quality & craftmanship are noticibly better than ZST Colorful, which have similar outer shells.

In my ears: Very comfortable. The total lack of sharp corners is the first thing I noticed (compared with ZS5 v1). The added weight from the zinc alloy plates doesn't bother me. Stock tips feel kind of cheap, so I put on my well worn pair of ZS5 black starline tips (medium size). The C10s are just as secure in my ears compared to the ZS5s.

Drivability: The electronic crossover in the CCA C10 is something I really look forward to. ZS5s have no such device, making them very current hungry, and the battery life of my DAP suffered as a result. My Shanling can get quite warm if left in a pocket while driving the ZS5s in balanced mode. CCA C10s seem to behave much better. In my unscientific test, my Shanling still had 3 bars of battery after playing non-stop for over 5 hours with the CCA C10s. (Low gain, volume around 22-26). Moreover, I found the C10s can produce the same loudness while running 3-4 volume steps lower than the ZS5s. 

The Sound: I played some loud music for 15 minutes to loosen up the drivers before listening. Using Shanling M3s balanced out low gain -> KZ 2.5mm balanced SPC cables -> CCA C10s -> KZ black starline tips. My first impression is very good musicality, pleasantness, and smooth sound produced by the CCA C10s. No piercing peaks in the treble region, and no noticible sibliance in my test tracks. Soundstage is on-par with the ZS5 v1, may be a little bit narrower. Bass has a strong, grooving presence, making the C10s suitable for use on public transport where there's constant background noises. Without a doubt, they are very suitable for listening to modern rock / pop genre. Overall they're some very enjoying IEMs and the asking price is a steal.


----------



## Antihawk

Hi all. This is my first post on this thread. I'm less experienced in audio than most members of this forum. 

I see references to phase coherency of multi-driver IEMs, and whether they are coherent or incoherent. To my knowledge this has something to do with what time the signals arrive from each driver -- but I'm probably butchering that explanation. 

A number of reviewers have mentioned that the ZS10 has coherency issues. I have noticed that the ZS10 sounds muddled during fast phases of music, with a lot of different instruments and sounds at play. It seems like instrument separation goes out the window and everything muddles together into one noise. It's not bad outside of those cases. On the other hand, my ES4 doesn't do this.

Is this phenomenon that which people refer to as a coherency issue? And is it the result of poor crossovers?


----------



## jeromeaparis

I am looking for a KZ usb-c cable, but it seems actualy difficult to find.
Do you have an idea where to get one ?


----------



## Superluc (Apr 6, 2019)

oops, they are out of stock even on gearbest

Maybe they don't produce it anymore, as they have the lightning cables now


----------



## nraymond

Antihawk said:


> Hi all. This is my first post on this thread. I'm less experienced in audio than most members of this forum.
> 
> I see references to phase coherency of multi-driver IEMs, and whether they are coherent or incoherent. To my knowledge this has something to do with what time the signals arrive from each driver -- but I'm probably butchering that explanation.
> 
> ...



Phase coherency (and time coherency) in any multi-driver speaker or earphone is difficult to accomplish. From what I've read, all crossovers alter the phase. A well designed crossover filter will mix the low pass and high pass outputs together such that the phase and amplitude relations are re-created close to the original. I haven't seen this explored closely in most earphone discussions, but I remember seeing it talked about here:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response-page-2

*Shure SE535*
This is one of my favorite in-ear headphones. The 30Hz square wave clearly shows a powerful and linear bass response. The 300Hz square wave shows excellent shape but for one unusual feature: a brief movement in the negative direction prior to moving upward. This is a 3-driver balanced armature headphone with a cross-over circuit. I think what we're seeing here is that the tweeter is out of phase with the other two drivers due to high order filters. Having a driver out of phase relative to other drivers in a multi-way speaker is not uncommon, but I haven't seen it elsewhere with headphones. The rise time of the front of the square wave doesn't look very fast, but you must remember that it's the tweeter going in the negative direction at first that's providing the speed. This is one of those cases where we're not seeing all of the information needed as some phase information is hidden from view.​
Time-coherency and phase-coherency in loudspeakers is discussed here:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/measuring-loudspeakers-part-two-page-3

That it is audible and that it has effects on sound and localization of sound is agreed upon, but exactly how important it is overall is debated. I think part of the reason is that there is a broad range of how out-of-align something can be... I think if things are out-of-align enough, it can be noticeably detrimental. I would guess that with the lower-cost multi-driver earphones, it's a bit of a crap shoot how much engineering time has been spent to optimize for coherency, and I'd also guess that at the lower price points these sell at, most consumers aren't that discerning either, so it's probably neglected.

Speaking personally, I have found that my best single-driver earphones seem to present the most complex passages of music in a way that my ears and brain can discern and locate all the various instruments/voices in the acoustic space better than my multi-driver earphones. (All my earphones are under $150.) It seems plausible this is due to the crossovers and phase and time coherency issues in the multi-driver designs.


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> oops, they are out of stock even on gearbest
> 
> Maybe they don't produce it anymore, as they have the lightning cables now



That is odd. It’s not like Lightning is a direct replacement for usb-c. One is for iPhone and the other for Android.

You can order a JC Ally cable with usb-c end. They have 4-wire and 8-wire braided cables, in multiple colors.

The price is about the same or better than the KZ usb-c cables, and they’re nicer cables. So that’s what I would do if it were me.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bqdejsMs


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Superluc said:


> oops, they are out of stock even on gearbest
> 
> Maybe they don't produce it anymore, as they have the lightning cables now


I found a KZ USB-C cable on Aliexpress. I guess you didn't Google it.


----------



## jeromeaparis

On Ali too, I only found them out of stock

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...pgrade-Cable-0-75mm-HD-Cable/32896735430.html


----------



## maxxevv

They have it over at Gearbest. But only in B-type connector form now though. 

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009148295640.html?wid=1433363


----------



## gbrgbr (Apr 7, 2019)

Re : the KZ Type-C cable, i would contact the seller before ordering. I needed a Para-A Type-C cable and got one of the last. About 2 weeks ago.


----------



## gbrgbr

Hope KZ releases a 'upgraded' Type-C cable with a better DAC chip than this :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2622#post-14649724

Also, maybe, in Para-C for the ZSN.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Apr 8, 2019)

gbrgbr said:


> Re : the KZ Type-C cable, i would contact the seller before ordering. I needed a Para-A Type-C cable and got one of the last. About 2 weeks ago.


I did ask to the seller at gearbest if he still has one for sale. (both A & B "out of stock")

got automated answer:
"Hello Jerome, 
You can search this product on our site with a keyword .
If you can not find it on our site, then we do not sell it."


----------



## Damikiller37

Looks like a new KZ with a ZSN-like shell and connector is on the way. Found this on the KZ's AliExpress store:


----------



## Slater (Apr 9, 2019)

(_Sorry for the cross post, but I wanted to make sure as many people as possible saw this_)

I know some of you have really big ear canals, and most large tips don’t fit (forcing you to flip foam tips backwards etc).

Well, I’m here to say I found a silicone tip that will fit you. The large tips are absolutely gargantuan. I’ve never seen tips this large. I’d call them XL or even XXL, compared to most L silicone tips. The large are 14.5mm! Most L tips are ~12.0-12.5mm.

They’re a nice tip too. Good quality, wide bore, lots of colors available, and very cheap for a set. So it won’t break the bank to try them out.

Hopefully this helps some of our large-eared friends out 

Here’s is a link to them:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32856640919.html


----------



## Ferrosa

Another KZ is coming: ZS10 Pro


----------



## Slater (Apr 9, 2019)

Ferrosa said:


> Another KZ is coming: ZS10 Pro



Do you have any details?


----------



## Ferrosa

https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1115556161657417728


----------



## Conest

Damikiller37 said:


> Looks like a new KZ with a ZSN-like shell and connector is on the way. Found this on the KZ's AliExpress store:


I tried


----------



## Superluc

Ferrosa said:


> Another KZ is coming: ZS10 Pro










I'm already regretting the ZSN PRO order


----------



## HungryPanda

It is relentless in KZ land


----------



## SiggyFraud

Slater said:


> (_Sorry for the cross post, but I wanted to make sure as many people as possible saw this_)
> 
> I know some of you have really big ear canals, and most large tips don’t fit (forcing you to flip foam tips backwards etc).
> 
> ...


Ordered these some time ago and I couldn't be happier. Perfect fit for my CCA C10 and **** ****.


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> Ordered these some time ago and I couldn't be happier. Perfect fit for my CCA C10 and **** ****.



I’ll be sure to try them out whenever the C16 show up.

It is odd though; in addition to the set of ginormous tips, the included double flange tips are really small (not medium like most similar assortments).

It’s kind of like a random misfit tip assortment lol


----------



## mono-type (Apr 9, 2019)

Seems like KZ is currently obsessed with the aesthetic they first used on the ZSN (metal back plate on a clear colored plastic shell). 

Looks like they're pushing the ZSN-type connector on their future models.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I know it is named KZ 8 Pro something something, but I don't have more data about it 

I will have it in my hands soon actually, just no idea about the specs or the MSRP


----------



## nxnje

Boysssss
Do you know how can shorten my zs7 memory foam cable part?
I mean, i think the memory foam part i just too long.
Do you have some tricks about not to ruin the cable foam but just make it a bit shorter? Do you think i can just cut until i reach the ideal lenght?


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> Looks like they're pushing the ZSN-type connector on their future models.



Yeah, it figures.

It’s the 1 cable type they have hardly any cable options for!

They’re pulling an Apple, changing plug types every few years to force sales of new accessories.


----------



## Slater (Apr 9, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> I know it is named KZ 8 Pro something something, but I don't have more data about it
> 
> I will have it in my hands soon actually, just no idea about the specs or the MSRP



8 Pro Extreme Ultimate Super #1 Gold Brack Friday Bunduru Edition


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Slater said:


> Do you have any details?


On KZ's official page on AliExpress, it seems the ZS10 PRO will use a very similar shell as the KZ ZSN, with the same 2-Pin (Type "C", not Type "A" or "B") style. I guess the ZSN was so popular they're releasing 2 models with a very similar shape


----------



## Deveraux

What cable do you suggest under 10$ except the TRN 8 core one? I feel a little uncomfortable on the outer ear with this thick cable. The silver ones turn green too soon and look ugly af. Any other options? :/


----------



## Slater

Deveraux said:


> What cable do you suggest under 10$ except the TRN 8 core one? I feel a little uncomfortable on the outer ear with this thick cable. The silver ones turn green too soon and look ugly af. Any other options? :/



The brownish NiceHCK 8-wire cable is a good budget cable


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> Boysssss



hmmmm....


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> hmmmm....


i'm sorry again, that's just habitude in speaking with friends!
Boys and girls would have been better


----------



## Superluc

nxnje said:


> Boys and girls would have been better


"Guys" is the right term


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> "Guys" is the right term



Dudes and dudettes


----------



## nxnje

I correct everything with "guys" but can someone please help me with that doubt?ahhahaha


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> I correct everything with "guys" but can someone please help me with that doubt?ahhahaha



Guys is fine when talking to a mixed group even though if you are talking about just one person a guy would be male...but please don't use the word "gal".    Boy always refers to a male.


----------



## theresanarc

I got the KZ-ZSNs and they have too much bass or sub-bass for me. The vocals and guitars sound recessed, I had hoped for something more forward sounding. The included tips are quite uncomfortable and the starline tips they included as extras are too small for the actual nozzle tbh so I have to find new tips.

They do however do a decent job of isolation which is the main reason I got them for (on the bus) but are a bit too big for my ears to do a great job of isolation because they don't sit snug enough. Anyways, gonna try to stick with these and not waste another $20 just to get clearer more forward vocals but definitely will be trying to find a different more comfortable pair of silicone tips.


----------



## HungryPanda

I cannot recommend ZSN or ZS7 for isolation


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Apr 9, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> I got the KZ-ZSNs and they have too much bass or sub-bass for me. The vocals and guitars sound recessed, I had hoped for something more forward sounding. The included tips are quite uncomfortable and the starline tips they included as extras are too small for the actual nozzle tbh so I have to find new tips.
> 
> They do however do a decent job of isolation which is the main reason I got them for (on the bus) but are a bit too big for my ears to do a great job of isolation because they don't sit snug enough. Anyways, gonna try to stick with these and not waste another $20 just to get clearer more forward vocals but definitely will be trying to find a different more comfortable pair of silicone tips.



Don't know what to rec as I find the sub bass and the mid bass a bit light, and the upper mids are about the most forward I have ever heard in an IEM. In fact the peak at 3k pushes guitars so forward I think they would be great as a monitor for a guitarist. Vocals, male and female both are a bit weak for sure. Not its strong suit. C10 uses same shell and has much much better vocals, but also has a tiny bit more bass, and mids are a bit more recessed. Still though its pretty balanced. I use it daily for work and I find isolation pretty decent.  

I guess I would recommend you whip out that EQ and dial in what you want. 

Or possibly you are looking for a flat line type IEM. Tin audio T2 or **** or something like that.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Do you have any details?


Check your Instagram feed. No one has much details other than that.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 9, 2019)

My C10 arrived and with the large tips there is no isolation. I just changed my opamp to AD797BR at the same time and the combo sounds good and very different than KZ's. Its hard to figure out what is is different since I made two changes at the same time but it's only positive.

I hope I can figure out the C10 isolation issue? The ZS7 is perfect (ZS3 like isolation) other than the open back. I will try medium tips later.

Congrats to KZ and CCA. Theres no point in trying other brands for most people.

My **** **** arrived and it sounds good but seems like a side grade to the above mentioned brands in terms of quality of materials (yuck) and sound.


----------



## Slater (Apr 9, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Check your Instagram feed. No one has much details other than that.



I don’t have Instagram. Or Twitter, Facebook, Pinterest, Tumblr, or any other social media.


----------



## theresanarc

BadReligionPunk said:


> Don't know what to rec as I find the sub bass and the mid bass a bit light, and the upper mids are about the most forward I have ever heard in an IEM. In fact the peak at 3k pushes guitars so forward I think they would be great as a monitor for a guitarist. Vocals, male and female both are a bit weak for sure. Not its strong suit. C10 uses same shell and has much much better vocals, but also has a tiny bit more bass, and mids are a bit more recessed. Still though its pretty balanced. I use it daily for work and I find isolation pretty decent.
> 
> I guess I would recommend you whip out that EQ and dial in what you want.
> 
> Or possibly you are looking for a flat line type IEM. Tin audio T2 or **** or something like that.



Oh man I just tried listening to a podcast on these and bad vocals is an understatement, I was just referring to music at first. I can hear a bunch of treble and static and hissing at low volumes that I couldn't hear on any of my other IEMs or earbuds.

Thanks for the rec on **** but they're open back it seems so I'll probably just get a Tin Audio T2 at some point.


----------



## khighly (Apr 10, 2019)

Highs extend a long way — further than ZS6 and some female vocals are very very airy, hi-hats more recessed, female vocals sound slightly better, and bass is a little more 'coherent', otherwise **extremely minimal** sound signature change from ZSN. Could also entirely just be channel imbalance between ZSN and ZSN Pro when I have both in my ears at the same time. Outside alloy shell is nicer than ZSN. DD is not gold like the pictures suggest. Clear cable came extra for free, YMMV. Different cable included in ZSN Pro box. Somewhat different internal packaging. Another goes in the "meh" drawer.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 10, 2019)

khighly said:


> Sound signature change from ZSN. Could also entirely just be channel imbalance between ZSN and ZSN Pro when I have both in my ears at the same time.


Your ear canals sound massive to fit both the ZSN and ZSN Pro in your ears at the same time. No wonder you have a hearing imbalance listening to both at the same time!


----------



## TechnoidFR

Ferrosa said:


> Another KZ is coming: ZS10 Pro



Love this design ! A big version of ZSN design !
But no information for the moment. I like very better the zs10 with the zishan z3. Comparing to meizu 16th the sound is very different and clearly approchonap to CCA C10 with more bass but less weird signature


----------



## TechnoidFR

SomeEntityThing said:


> On KZ's official page on AliExpress, it seems the ZS10 PRO will use a very similar shell as the KZ ZSN, with the same 2-Pin (Type "C", not Type "A" or "B") style. I guess the ZSN was so popular they're releasing 2 models with a very similar shape



I see this type C 2pin connector on more and more iem. I think it's more secure than traditional connector and give more place in the Shell for drivers. Maybe more simple


----------



## nxnje

I really like keeping the zs7 in my ears when going to university, the sub-bass is really outstanding making them really immersive and engaging.
For now, the only thing i hate is this long piece of memory wire.. i really hate it 
I mean that could be comfortable but the memory part of the wire is really too long


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone compared the TFZ Galaxy T2 to the KZ ZS7? A Massdrop reviewer said the ZS7 wasn't as good? The ZS7 rock!  The T2 may rock more?


----------



## DynamicEars (Apr 10, 2019)

Superluc said:


> I'm already regretting the ZSN PRO order



looks like CCA C10 with new plate, using zsn pro plastic shell. That's all.. lol
They must be got idea from impressions about C10 here "its like better version of ZS10" "this is what ZS10 meant to be" ---> why not?? make new plate and name them ZS10 PRO

I have to admit though, they are very pretty!


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> I really like keeping the zs7 in my ears when going to university, the sub-bass is really outstanding making them really immersive and engaging.
> For now, the only thing i hate is this long piece of memory wire.. i really hate it
> I mean that could be comfortable but the memory part of the wire is really too long



Make it shorter. Easy.


----------



## fredhubbard2

^ what he said ... or just peel the whole darn thing off!


----------



## TreehornJackie

My impressions after a month with the ZSR, ZS4 and ZSN.

ZS4. They have a weird shape but they are comfortable and isolate very good. Unfortunately the sound is a major let down. The highs are way too loud. I tried to mod them but no matter how much I dampened the armature, the highs remained loud and sybilant. I ended up adding foam around the armature instead. The dinamic driver's highs were actually the issue. The sound is much better now. The soundstage is quite good. All in all, I would not recommend these iems.

ZSN. They look awesome and are very comfortable. The sound is unnatural though. They have a very strong peak in the 2-3k Hz area, which brings the vocals and upper registers very close. Because of this, they seem to have poor soundstage. You feel as though the instruments play in your ears. The highs sound ok but are a bit too loud and metalic. The bass is very nice, well textured and controlled. In short, the ZSN is worth 14 USD, for the full package you get (cable, materials, looks, comfort etc.).

ZSR. For only 3-4 USD more, the ZSRs are definitely an upgrade. They are very comfortable, even more so than the ZSN. Somehow they isolate better than the ZS4. They come with the same awesome cable as ZSN now (different connectors though). Great instrument separation, soundstage, strong and textured bass, good highs extension and no obvious peaks or dips in their sound signature. In short, for 18 USD they are well worth it.
Just my opinion of course.
Cheers.


----------



## Nikostr8

i would love a tws kz earphone in the future  with the sound of the ZSN. ( and price  )

No Trn bt20-like adapter tho , just the earbuds.

Would be glory.


----------



## SoundChoice

Ferrosa said:


> Another KZ is coming: ZS10 Pro



It's a bulky ZS10... but PRO, with more plastic housing that will stick out of your ears even farther, but you won't notice or care because oh hey here's a cool ZSN metal faceplate.


----------



## neo_styles

Today's commuter combo: Opus#1, Purple ZSN (w/ Auvio wide-bores), and the NiceHCK 16-core balanced cable. I know the ZSN can be a pretty polarizing pair for most, but I think it mates really well with the O#1's sound signature. Just enough oomph in the low end to keep pace while walking from the bus, not so bright that it doesn't tempt me to kick the volume up a few notches. Cable looks a little weird just sitting on top of the ZSN's Paragraph-C connector, but I have long hair so you can't really tell.

​


----------



## Superluc

SoundChoice said:


> It's a bulky ZS10... but PRO, with more plastic housing that will stick out of your ears even farther, but you won't notice or care because oh hey here's a cool ZSN metal faceplate.


The old ZS10 is bulkier than the ZSN. These looks just like the ZSN but with thicker faceplate, as they need more room for the added components.


----------



## Slater

TreehornJackie said:


> The highs are way too loud. I tried to mod them but no matter how much I dampened the armature, the highs remained loud and sybilant. I ended up adding foam around the armature instead. The dynamic driver's highs were actually the issue. The sound is much better now.



I’m not sure if the ZS4 has a crossover or not, but they should have added a band pass filter on the dynamic driver to filter out the highs so the dynamic treble wasn’t competing with the BA’s treble.


----------



## jibberish

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone compared the TFZ Galaxy T2 to the KZ ZS7? A Massdrop reviewer said the ZS7 wasn't as good? The ZS7 rock!  The T2 may rock more?


I don't have ZS7 to compare, but the T2 Galaxy is quite good, once you ditch the stock cable that literally shocks your ear and introduces electric interference noise.


----------



## Slater

jibberish said:


> I don't have ZS7 to compare, but the T2 Galaxy is quite good, once you ditch the stock cable that literally shocks your ear and introduces electric interference noise.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

jibberish said:


> I don't have ZS7 to compare, but the T2 Galaxy is quite good, once you ditch the stock cable that literally shocks your ear and introduces electric interference noise.


How long has this cable existed? You think they'd revamp it with a new one that doesn't?


----------



## pbui44 (Apr 10, 2019)

Slater said:


>



I swear those tubes were on the WA22 I demo’d it with the Abyss Phi and accidentally burned myself touching it!

Hopefully, I can get a ALO CDM to go with my ZSA.


----------



## Slater (Apr 10, 2019)

I’m hoping KZ will start making the metal faceplates of these new models look like the CCA CA4.



I like the smooth look. It just looks classier and less tacky.

The zig zag lines of the ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, and the wavy curves of the regular CCA models just don’t look as good IMO.

Of course sound is most important above all, but KZ clearly does spend a great deal of effort working on the aesthetics of their gear. Color combinations, physical appearance, etc. So I know the look is just as important to them as the sound.

The physical looks do play a role in what audio gear people buy or don’t buy.

I know people who purposely avoided buying any of the ‘exposed circuit board’ models (ES4, ZS10, AS10, etc) because they hated now they looked. Although I would have just changed out or painted over the circuit board faceplates if the sound justified owning them. And I know others who won’t try the EDR1 because of the way they look.

So that stuff is definitely important to people, which ultimately does affect sales numbers.

I would not own these Estron/Timmkoo earphones because of the ridiculous way they look. Even though they’re reported to sound good.


Anyways, just some random KZ thoughts.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Had an opportunity to by CCA CA4 and ZSN Pro tonight for $10 each. I stayed strong and didn't give in, but it was tough. 

Caved on the BQEYZ KC2 for $25 though. 

Doh!


----------



## gbrgbr (Apr 11, 2019)

*KZ ZS10 Pro *

US $43.04 - 44.07

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...-Bass-Earbuds-In-Ear-Monitor/32999600612.html


----------



## khighly

The ZS10 have the best separation and soundstage of any KZ IEM while still maintaining a perfectly acceptable sound signature. I will be purchasing the ZS10 Pro because I really dislike the ZS10 shell and physical design. I hope the sound characteristics are matched on a good level. Where did that giant crossover board go?


----------



## ShakyJake (Apr 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> ....
> I would not own these Estron/Timmkoo earphones because of the ridiculous way they look. Even though they’re reported to sound good.


I actually like both the sound and look of the Estron es670 that you pictured above. So much that I bought a couple of spares at $7/piece. They are almost as good as my precious Estron/Timmkoo/Joyplus c631. Off course those are also quite "unique" in the looks department


----------



## khighly (Apr 11, 2019)

Are KZ Graphs accurate? I feel like this is what the original ZS10 sounds like too. Original ZS10 are up there with the ZS6/ZS7 absolutely. I think the ZS10 is almost a better ZS6. It can do everything. I just got them back from a friend who was borrowing them and was happy to see the new design because of the anxiety I get from the short stem.


----------



## ShakyJake

BadReligionPunk said:


> Had an opportunity to by CCA CA4 and ZSN Pro tonight for $10 each. I stayed strong and didn't give in, but it was tough.
> 
> Caved on the BQEYZ KC2 for $25 though.
> 
> Doh!


Where did you find those deals?


----------



## 416805 (Apr 11, 2019)

Just bought the newest batch of KZ ZST Pro

it comes with a new cable (looks better IMO)

also from the FR i see they are different sounding.

so far im liking these. its really really good.

 

Bass 9.5/10
Mid 7.5/10
Treble 8/10

i would recommend these to anyone. really good to complement MH755. this is a fun IEM to listen with. not as much detail (IMO) compared to MH755 but its good enough and they make freddie mercury sounded better than MH755 (which is all im asking for)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 11, 2019)

I was just thinking today that since CCA started putting their brand name on their earphones that KZ should be getting more sales around the world (eventually).

When someone sees a KZ with no obvious branding all they can do is wonder, "What brand are those?"


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

chancool said:


> Just bought the newest batch of KZ ZST Pro


New batch? Lol. What year is this? 1999?  Most people are already on the KZ ZS7, CCA C10 and C16. And, staying there.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 11, 2019)

ShakyJake said:


> BadReligionPunk, Where did you find those deals?


Don't you hate it when someone posts about a deal but doesn't say where? I guess they forgot this is a KZ community.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

khighly said:


> The ZS10 have the best separation and soundstage of any KZ IEM while still maintaining a perfectly acceptable sound signature.


It sounds like my ZS10 were improperly made because nothing about them is acceptable and I have 10+ KZ earphones that are fine.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> The ZS10 have the best separation and soundstage of any KZ IEM while still maintaining a perfectly acceptable sound signature. I will be purchasing the ZS10 Pro because I really dislike the ZS10 shell and physical design. I hope the sound characteristics are matched on a good level. Where did that giant crossover board go?



Crossover board:


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 11, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> New batch? Lol. What year is this? 1999?  Most people are already on the KZ ZS7, CCA C10 and C16. And, staying there.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> Don't you hate it when someone posts about a deal but doesn't say where? I guess they forgot this is a KZ community.



Hey,  you will probably be annoyed with me for saying so, but I find both of these comments slightly rude.

In fact, if this is a community as you said, why would you laugh at someone?


----------



## Slater (Apr 11, 2019)

chancool said:


> Just bought the newest batch of KZ ZST Pro
> 
> it comes with a new cable (looks better IMO)
> 
> ...



Looking good friend! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

That cable looks nice with the ZST ‘colorful’ version (that’s the same color version I have). Glad to see KZ is starting to ditch the memory wire in favor of a pre-formed ear guide.

The ZST is the KZ hybrid that started it all


----------



## 416805

Slater said:


> Looking good friend! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
> 
> That cable looks nice with the ZST ‘colorful’ version (that’s the same color version I have). Glad to see KZ is starting to ditch the memory wire in favor of a pre-formed ear guide.
> 
> The ZST is the KZ hybrid that started it all


 the reason i go zst is because i like how the shell look tbh (would be a lie if i say its from reviews on the internet)

coming in and buying it didn't really expect much tbh. but hey it sounded good so no regrets.

who know maybe my next purchase is gonna be KZ again or it will be other brand.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ShakyJake said:


> Where did you find those deals?


Was emailed a coupon code for them. Completely random. 


chancool said:


> the reason i go zst is because i like how the shell look tbh (would be a lie if i say its from reviews on the internet)
> 
> coming in and buying it didn't really expect much tbh. but hey it sounded good so no regrets.
> 
> who know maybe my next purchase is gonna be KZ again or it will be other brand.



ZST carbon was my first foray into KZ. I still have it and while it doesn't get listened too very much it was very comfortable and I like/d very much.


----------



## 416805

my next prolly gonna be CCA C10, i like how the FR looked compared to C16. either c10 or i get the ZS10 Pro (when will it be released?)

either that or the moondrop crescent

then prolly the kanas pro


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Was emailed a coupon code for them. Completely random.
> 
> 
> ZST carbon was my first foray into KZ. I still have it and while it doesn't get listened too very much it was very comfortable and I like/d very much.



I enjoy my ZST.

The foam mod is still holding strong, and I have it paired with the KZ Bluetooth cable. Although it doesn’t get as much head time nowadays, as I use total wireless earphones for working out.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> I enjoy my ZST.
> 
> The foam mod is still holding strong, and I have it paired with the KZ Bluetooth cable. Although it doesn’t get as much head time nowadays, as I use total wireless earphones for working out.



I still need that mod for my ZST.  I wonder if I can find a modder to help me...

There was a time I would have done it myself but fingers have lost dexterity.  Time is cruel.


----------



## jeromeaparis

LaughMoreDaily said:


> New batch? Lol. What year is this? 1999?  Most people are already on the KZ ZS7, CCA C10 and C16. And, staying there.


I have a lot of recent KZ earphones as ED16, ES4, ZSN, AS10 etc and my ZST colorf still has a great sound, it has its proper character, layering & instrument separation is one of the very best. Trebles, agressive at the begining get just right after about 150 hours...!
I would agree with you only for such ATE & ATR, that delivered only a tiny portion of the thrill. But some are in love with them for ever !


----------



## 416805

LaughMoreDaily said:


> New batch? Lol. What year is this? 1999?  Most people are already on the KZ ZS7, CCA C10 and C16. And, staying there.



well ZS7 doesn't sound that good in my ear tbh.

C10 im planning to try it C16 from looking at the FR its more V shaped than the ZST so thats a no.

ZST Pro do have a new batch, it comes with different tuning and new cable.






this is the old one frequency response

this one is the new graph: https://telegra.ph/KZ-ZST-Pro-impressions-and-FR-03-31

its not my review so i put up links here but the graph looks like this:


----------



## Slater

chancool said:


> well ZS7 doesn't sound that good in my ear tbh.
> 
> C10 im planning to try it C16 from looking at the FR its more V shaped than the ZST so thats a no.
> 
> ...



Keep in mind that unless both of those measurements were taken on the exact same equipment, using the same tips, at the same insertion depth, that they cannot be reliably compared. It’s very possible that the graphs are indeed the same and there have been no tuning changes.


----------



## 416805

Slater said:


> Keep in mind that unless both of those measurements were taken on the exact same equipment, using the same tips, at the same insertion depth, that they cannot be reliably compared. It’s very possible that the graphs are indeed the same and there have been no tuning changes.



yup thats true, but IIRC the guy havethe old ZST Pro batch. im not sure myself, but atleast it sounded good in my ears so its good for me.

btw do you know when the ZS10 Pro is out?


----------



## Slater

chancool said:


> yup thats true, but IIRC the guy havethe old ZST Pro batch. im not sure myself, but atleast it sounded good in my ears so its good for me.
> 
> btw do you know when the ZS10 Pro is out?



Not sure.

I imagine it will be pretty soon, as they’re taking pre-orders on it right now.

In the past, KZ has started shipping stuff a few weeks after the pre-order period. People in China always get it 1st, with the rest of the world following a few weeks after that.


----------



## nraymond

chancool said:


> btw do you know when the ZS10 Pro is out?



The link someone posted to the "KZ Official Store" page says this:

"Attention : this is pre-sale ! when you orders, we will send out within 2 weeks, and please extend more shipping time for us, thanks for your understanding !
Limited activity : We will send an upgrade cable as gift to you , if your orders within April 11.12.13 ,only limited 3 days!"​


----------



## 416805

nraymond said:


> The link someone posted to the "KZ Official Store" page says this:
> 
> "Attention : this is pre-sale ! when you orders, we will send out within 2 weeks, and please extend more shipping time for us, thanks for your understanding !
> Limited activity : We will send an upgrade cable as gift to you , if your orders within April 11.12.13 ,only limited 3 days!"​



ah damn it, i hate ordering from aliexpress it took way too long to arrive


----------



## Slater

chancool said:


> ah damn it, i hate ordering from aliexpress it took way too long to arrive



Welcome to the world of ChiFi


----------



## mbwilson111

chancool said:


> ah damn it, i hate ordering from aliexpress it took way too long to arrive



Everything I have ordered from aliexpress has arrived between 6 days and 6 weeks.  2-3 weeks being most common.


----------



## neo_styles

chancool said:


> ah damn it, i hate ordering from aliexpress it took way too long to arrive


I think you're looking at it the wrong way...ordering from AliExpress is like buying a surprise gift for your future self. Just don't keep an eye on the tracking and it'll show up right after you forget you even bought it for yourself!

Now the real question is do I take a stab at the ZS10 Pro or convince myself I'm actually okay with the ZS7, ZSN, ZSN Pro (technically the son's), AS10, T2 Pro, and iSine10 for in-ears?


----------



## CYoung234

khighly said:


> The ZS10 have the best separation and soundstage of any KZ IEM while still maintaining a perfectly acceptable sound signature. I will be purchasing the ZS10 Pro because I really dislike the ZS10 shell and physical design. I hope the sound characteristics are matched on a good level. Where did that giant crossover board go?


+1


----------



## TechnoidFR

CYoung234 said:


> +1



The soundstage is weird and little artificial. I noticed the Sound come from exterior to interior. Most of iem do reverse. It's most natural. I noticed that with comparing with zs6. It's, I think, one explaination for the lot of people didn't like them


----------



## Slater (Apr 11, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> The soundstage is weird and little artificial. I noticed the Sound come from exterior to interior. Most of iem do reverse. It's most natural. I noticed that with comparing with zs6. It's, I think, one explaination for the lot of people didn't like them



That sounds exactly like some of the individual drivers were wired out of phase. It causes that weird ‘exterior to interior’ sound.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> That sounds exactly like some of the individual drivers were wired out of phase. It causes that weird ‘exterior to interior’ sound.



I have 3 pairs. ( First, one ba of right was broken, second has left defective, third is ok.) Exactly the same thing


----------



## khighly

TechnoidFR said:


> I noticed the Sound come from exterior to interior. Most of iem do reverse. It's most natural. I noticed that with comparing with zs6. It's, I think, one explaination for the lot of people didn't like them


I have noticed this with many different IEM's, not just KZ, and I pointed it out a very long time ago in this thread with example songs.

I have some IEM's where on the exact same song, one more '3D' sound will come from the left, and in another pair, will come from the right. It doesn't bother me since it sounds perfectly fine and isn't any compromise, but I guess some could fuss over it.


----------



## TechnoidFR

khighly said:


> I have noticed this with many different IEM's, not just KZ, and I pointed it out a very long time ago in this thread with example songs.
> 
> I have some IEM's where on the exact same song, one more '3D' sound will come from the left, and in another pair, will come from the right. It doesn't bother me since it sounds perfectly fine and isn't any compromise, but I guess some could fuss over it.



Have another example of Iem like this? In my collection it's the only to have this "vision" of sound diffusion.

For inversion of the sound for an instrument a noticed that few days ago . Didn't know the model exact


----------



## Slater

TechnoidFR said:


> I have 3 pairs. ( First, one ba of right was broken, second has left defective, third is ok.) Exactly the same thing



Good crawrity control!


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> Good crawrity control!



The first fall a lot ( so it's my fault and explain why one ba broke )


----------



## 1clearhead

Here are some quick impressions on the *KZ ZS7* and *KZ ZSA*! 

Link:
 Post #22966

Enjoy!


----------



## Slater

TechnoidFR said:


> The first fall a lot ( so it's my fault and explain why one ba broke )



Yeah, dropping IEMs will do it. The BA drivers are more fragile than many people realize.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Yeah, dropping IEMs will do it. The BA drivers are more fragile than many people realize.


Another reason to stick to budget iems... under $100.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Another reason to stick to budget iems... under $100.



He broke ZS10


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Another reason to stick to budget iems... under $100.



Corrected : another reason to stick to better 1 DD iems


----------



## TechnoidFR

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Another reason to stick to budget iems... under $100.



just avoid dropping it 10 times in 5 days. these are the only ones today that have had a problem in my entire collection and I'm walking around with 13 iem all thé day

Just be careful, like any product


----------



## hakuzen (Apr 12, 2019)

added resistance measurements of cables 060, 061, 062, and 063 to my list. they are budget nicehck cables.
060 (copper 8 cores) could be the best conductivity and plugs in <$10 price segment (you can get it <$8). acceptable sound.
061 (spc 8 cores) conductivity is quite worse, but price is also appealing.
once again, not impressed with 16 cores versions. copper version has even worse conductivity than its 8 cores sibling. but sound is decent.
all them are very soft and flexible.
(lists links can be found in my signature)


----------



## Danfish98

1clearhead said:


> Here are some quick impressions on the *KZ ZS7* and *KZ ZSA*!
> 
> Link:
> Post #22966
> ...


Glad to see the ZSA getting some love. If it were up to me every IEM would copy that shell design because it's so comfortable.  How does the ZS7 compare to the C10?


----------



## Wiljen

bit the bullet on the Zs10 pro so will have one to review sometime shortly.   Got the CA4 coming too.  With all the other stuff coming in, its going to be a busy time if it all lands at once.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 12, 2019)

Danfish98 said:


> Glad to see the ZSA getting some love. If it were up to me every IEM would copy that shell design because it's so comfortable.  *How does the ZS7 compare to the C10?*


I like them, both! 
But, I can see why the C10 would be the jack-of-all-trades! It really can do many selected genres quite good with precision! Though, the ZS7 are no slouch! It can full-fill a fun and mature lower bass like no other can with nice elevated hi-end treble details!


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 12, 2019)

Danfish98 said:


> *Glad to see the ZSA getting some love. If it were up to me every IEM would copy that shell design because it's so comfortable.*  How does the ZS7 compare to the C10?


Love the ZSA shell myself! But, I can see the shell being an obstacle or challenge for others with larger ear canals.


----------



## mono-type (Apr 12, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> Here are some quick impressions on the *KZ ZS7* and *KZ ZSA*!
> 
> Link:
> Post #22966
> ...


I pretty much agree on your ZS7 review, since basically I thought the same thing, too: deep bass, yet clarity/details weren't sacrificed, something that I find a bit lacking on AS10. It has a bit of everything. It has the warmness of the ZS10, and the clarity of the AS10 IMO, like I said before in this thread. This IEM is perfect if you listen mostly to electronic music. And yes, not to over-hype it, but this is definitely one of the must-buy KZ IEMs ATM.


----------



## RolledOff

mono-type said:


> I pretty much agree on your ZS7 review, since basically I thought the same thing, too: deep bass, yet clarity/details weren't sacrificed, something that I find a bit lacking on AS10. It has a bit of everything. It has the warmness of the ZS10, and the clarity of the AS10 IMO, like I said before in this thread. This IEM is perfect if you listen mostly to electronic music. And yes, not to over-hype it, but this is definitely one of the must-buy KZ IEMs ATM.


ZS7 is my goto IEM whenever I want the fun
I use TRN cable on it while waiting for NiceHCK cable to arrive, no sound improvement but it's more comfortable for me


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 12, 2019)

I'm not sure why the **** **** is over hyped. It doesnt sound as good as the newer KZs/CCAs, just different. It's also very heavy with a bad fit and it doesnt stay in my ears. I need foams, I guess.

What I'm trying to say is... I'm staying here and not flirting with other brands except maybe TFZ? Lol.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

TechnoidFR said:


> just avoid dropping it 10 times in 5 days. these are the only ones today that have had a problem in my entire collection and I'm walking around with 13 iem all thé day


You carry your whole iem collection everywhere you go? That's a true addict. You need to call the crisis line.


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You carry your whole iem collection everywhere you go? That's a true addict. You need to call the crisis line.


You do not have a bag where you carry few of your IEMs and important accessories??
Who should "call the line" then?


----------



## Slater (Apr 12, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You carry your whole iem collection everywhere you go? That's a true addict. You need to call the crisis line.





PhonoPhi said:


> You do not have a bag where you carry few of your IEMs and important accessories??
> Who should "call the line" then?



I not only carry a bunch of earphones and headphones with me, but I also carry my entire record player and a stack of my favorite vinyl albums with me everywhere I go.


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> I not only carry a bunch of earphones and headphones with me, but I also carry my entire record player and a stack of my favorite vinyl albums with me everywhere I go.


Do you dates turn away from you, like in the picture?


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> Do you dates turn away from you, like in the picture?



She did mention that she was embarrassed by me wearing my headphones in public, but I don’t understand why she would say that


----------



## TechGuy89

Hi guys, just pulled the trigger on a zs7. May I ask if the zs6 and zs7 are using the same type of cables (2-pin)? Thanks!


----------



## Danfish98

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure why the **** **** is over hyped. It doesnt sound as good as the newer KZs/CCAs, just different. It's also very heavy with a bad fit and it doesnt stay in my ears. I need foams, I guess.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is... I'm staying here and not flirting with other brands except maybe TFZ? Lol.


It's $20 for a new type of speaker and the graphs are flat from bass through mids. No idea if I'll like it but those were the reasons I ordered one. I figure that's a small price to pay for new technology and maybe it'll be good too.


----------



## TechnoidFR

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You carry your whole iem collection everywhere you go? That's a true addict. You need to call the crisis line.



Just an insane reviewer ( but side addict too, I gave 4 I'm in review in this moment ) ! Before I reviewed loss of smartphones and up to 3/4 smartphones in same times.( And do 3/4 videos by week... Just because my curiosity is very huge, I want to review all it's possible )

But clearly each iem have a personality and if I want change I want to change anywhere.

And I'm so addict that I post here... With my poor english. Yeah I'm really very passionate


----------



## TechnoidFR

TechGuy89 said:


> Hi guys, just pulled the trigger on a zs7. May I ask if the zs6 and zs7 are using the same type of cables (2-pin)? Thanks!



Exactly same type.



Danfish98 said:


> It's $20 for a new type of speaker and the graphs are flat from bass through mids. No idea if I'll like it but those were the reasons I ordered one. I figure that's a small price to pay for new technology and maybe it'll be good too.



They are ! They are flat and brilliant, farly better tuned than nicehck n3. Stay fun and globally with good tonality but a little cold


----------



## mono-type

TechGuy89 said:


> Hi guys, just pulled the trigger on a zs7. May I ask if the zs6 and zs7 are using the same type of cables (2-pin)? Thanks!


Yes, they use the same 0.75 mm 2-pin plugs, referred by KZ as an "A" type. Don't use the "B" (which are 0.78mm, and have angular plugs) or "C" types (the ones used by ZSN and other soon-to-be-released KZ products) on the ZS7.


----------



## fluteloop (Apr 16, 2019)

Slater said:


> I not only carry a bunch of earphones and headphones with me, but I also carry my entire record player and a stack of my favorite vinyl albums with me everywhere I go.


 
I am 200 espresso's away from this lifestyle.


----------



## FastAndClean

KZ ZS10 PRO is on Ali already


----------



## pbui44

FastAndClean said:


> KZ ZS10 PRO is on Ali already



Direct link to that KZ ZS10 PRO on AliExpress:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32999...4BDBiyT&spm=a2g0n.store_home.slider_2805489.0

Also, today is the last day to order and get a free KZ cable as a gift.


----------



## Slater (Apr 13, 2019)

fluteloop said:


> I am 2000 espresso's away from this lifestyle.



Haha, yeah that guy is bonkers. Where is he even getting power for the turntable from? Is he also lugging around a battery pack?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

hh


Slater said:


> I not only carry a bunch of earphones and headphones with me, but I also carry my entire record player and a stack of my favorite vinyl albums with me everywhere I go.


The hipster is strong with this one. Its gotta be tough carrying all that on his moped. 

Big ups man. I raise this Pabst to you!


----------



## maxxevv (Apr 13, 2019)

Slater said:


> Haha, yeah that guy is bonkers. Where is he even getting power for the turntable from? Is he also lugging around a battery pack?



Can't really tell from the pict, but they do have "portable" LP turntables though.  And this is one of them:
 VESTAX HANDY TRAX, it supposed to have a 65hr runtime !


----------



## nraymond

maxxevv said:


> Can't really tell from the pict, but they do have "portable" LP turntables though.



The smallest record player I believe is the Record Runner:



Followed by the Sound Burger:


----------



## TechGuy89

TechnoidFR said:


> Exactly same type.
> 
> 
> 
> They are ! They are flat and brilliant, farly better tuned than nicehck n3. Stay fun and globally with good tonality but a little cold





mono-type said:


> Yes, they use the same 0.75 mm 2-pin plugs, referred by KZ as an "A" type. Don't use the "B" (which are 0.78mm, and have angular plugs) or "C" types (the ones used by ZSN and other soon-to-be-released KZ products) on the ZS7.



Thanks for the help!


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

hakuzen said:


> added resistance measurements of cables 060, 061, 062, and 063 to my list. they are budget nicehck cables.
> 060 (copper 8 cores) could be the best conductivity and plugs in <$10 price segment (you can get it <$8). acceptable sound.
> 061 (spc 8 cores) conductivity is quite worse, but price is also appealing.
> once again, not impressed with 16 cores versions. copper version has even worse conductivity than its 8 cores sibling. but sound is decent.
> ...



Wow, lucky, I just received my 060 (balanced) cable a few days ago, bought during the AliExpress anniversary sale. I really like it. Quality is nice and the earphone connections are tight, plus it has a slider. I also have the black silver plated MMCX version, which apparently is much worse, but I get really nice sound out of it with my ****. Would be interesting to get one of those best measured cables some time to compare how much of a difference it makes.


----------



## hakuzen

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Wow, lucky, I just received my 060 (balanced) cable a few days ago, bought during the AliExpress anniversary sale. I really like it. Quality is nice and the earphone connections are tight, plus it has a slider. I also have the black silver plated MMCX version, which apparently is much worse, but I get really nice sound out of it with my ****. Would be interesting to get one of those best measured cables some time to compare how much of a difference it makes.


glad you like them.
not much difference (by rolling tips, you get big tonality differences; by rolling cables, slight definition changes).
but, if you have high resolution gear, you could try a more expensive cable ever and judge yourself. i do notice difference from my cables <$20 to those >$50 in these cases.


----------



## antdroid (Apr 13, 2019)

ZSN Pro (Purple) - I forgot I bought these and they showed up today in the mail. I ran some quick measurements using my new IEC711 clone coupler. Plotted over Harman Target Curve for IEMs. Just a really initial listen and its a little bright. I gave my ZSN away to a former colleague of mine so I do not have it anymore but just from memory, these seem a tad brighter than the ZSN. Seems like the ZSN Pro is to the ZSN like the T2 Pro is to the T2.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

There's no reason to buy a ZSN (or Pro) anymore now that the CCA C10 is out.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

hakuzen said:


> glad you like them.
> not much difference (by rolling tips, you get big tonality differences; by rolling cables, slight definition changes).
> but, if you have high resolution gear, you could try a more expensive cable ever and judge yourself. i do notice difference from my cables <$20 to those >$50 in these cases.



My FiiO X7mkII probably isn't much of a bottleneck, so investing in a more expensive cable to use with my favorite earphones could be interesting. My spiral dots have been serving me well for the earphones I have, but I would like to try some Shure olives style tips on them some time, because they isolate to well, I really liked them with my ER4.
A-B-ing between cables it a bit tricky if you don't have two pairs of earphones that sound exactly the same. By the time you swapped the cable and have the phones back into your ears it is difficult to compare the sound to what you heard minutes ago.

Now that I have received some more balanced cables, I've been listening to my other earphones again. There's something that makes the AS10 so pleasant to listen to. The sound is full and tight because of the BA drivers, with nice texture. Quite forgiving and non-fatiguing. I has a pleasant warmth to the sound and doesn't seem to have any annoying spikes or dips in the spectrum. It sounds pretty smooth, I would describe it as organic, analog sounding. Very good for music with lots of atmosphere, the Stranger Things synth OST sounds really good on it. 
There's the treble roll-off, the soundstage is very small, instrument separation is okay. Somehow when I try them I don't feel like taking them out again.


----------



## DynamicEars

I bought ZSN pro after C10 (and both after Kanas Pro).


----------



## nicksson (Apr 14, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure why the **** **** is over hyped.


I own a **** item. I bought it because I was curious about the combination of 3 drivers (dynamic, piezo and b.a.). Yes, it sound different from KZ's items, but not bad at all. _I like it._ I use memory foam tips. It's always a good ideea, I think, to have or to try more then one item, to do comparisons directly with your ears. This is the only way to know what is good for you. As you see, you don't like DTS6, but I like it. The reviews ant the common sense ot the users are a good initial point to decide about buying or not one or other item, but the last word comes from your... ears!

So, if you don't like ****, don't be sad, give it as a gift/sell it to one of your friends of collaterals.  And of course, stay ready for the new ZS 10 Pro


----------



## 416805

well, i find the zst kinda lacking something soo

i just bought cca c10, should be arriving in 2 days

i hate the fact that cyan is out of stock so i grt the purple one. i feel cyan is the nicest color. but oh well what ever.

i just hope its gonna be a significant upgrade over Zst pro

if im not satisfied i prolly gonna look over the zs10 pro review then try it my self. then if its still no go. i go with moondrop linrs


----------



## hakuzen

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> My FiiO X7mkII probably isn't much of a bottleneck, so investing in a more expensive cable to use with my favorite earphones could be interesting. My spiral dots have been serving me well for the earphones I have, but I would like to try some Shure olives style tips on them some time, because they isolate to well, I really liked them with my ER4.
> A-B-ing between cables it a bit tricky if you don't have two pairs of earphones that sound exactly the same. By the time you swapped the cable and have the phones back into your ears it is difficult to compare the sound to what you heard minutes ago.
> 
> Now that I have received some more balanced cables, I've been listening to my other earphones again. There's something that makes the AS10 so pleasant to listen to. The sound is full and tight because of the BA drivers, with nice texture. Quite forgiving and non-fatiguing. I has a pleasant warmth to the sound and doesn't seem to have any annoying spikes or dips in the spectrum. It sounds pretty smooth, I would describe it as organic, analog sounding. Very good for music with lots of atmosphere, the Stranger Things synth OST sounds really good on it.
> There's the treble roll-off, the soundstage is very small, instrument separation is okay. Somehow when I try them I don't feel like taking them out again.


yea, time between swapping cables is too much. focusing in definition a short frequency range each time helps a bit, and then, overall sensation. that's what i do.

some BAs of one of my AS10s (green/cyan) might be out of phase, because sound is awful. i ought to open them and check.
the other one (red/black) is "right" (but to achieve a more balanced tonality, nearer to my fav signature, have massively eq'd it using an ascending line near to -10dB at 20hZ, to +10dB at 16kHz; excessive)


----------



## khighly

ZSN Pro extends to the limits of my hearing as a 28y/o female. It's controlled, but I notice a lot of live recorded songs have a high pitched ringing in the background.

Example: 

Barely in my hearing range "hats":  tickles something at the top of my throat.

I actually hope they make their new IEM's extend this far and stay under control because in real life there are no low pass filters . It actually makes me realize I've been missing a lot to a lot of music with IEM's.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

So I still really love my ZS5, and I am now considering ZS7.

But I am also considering getting some custom IEM sleeves made for them. I think by Snugs? 

Naturally the don’t make them for  KZ products, but the do for campfire andromeda’s ... anyone know if the shell /design is actually identical / would fit?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Apr 14, 2019)

CardigdanWalk said:


> So I still really love my ZS5, and I am now considering ZS7.
> 
> But I am also considering getting some custom IEM sleeves made for them. I think by Snugs?
> 
> *Naturally the don’t make them for  KZ products, but the do for campfire andromeda’s ... anyone know if the shell /design is actually identical / would fit?*



Shell design is completely different (edit) - in terms of dimensions -. KZ's are larger and lacking a number of bends and curves seen on the CAs.


----------



## WhatToChoose

B9Scrambler said:


> Shell design is completely different (edit) - in terms of dimensions -. KZ's are larger and lacking a number of bends and curves seen on the CAs.



That lineup in your sig...looking forward to those reviews


----------



## B9Scrambler

WhatToChoose said:


> That lineup in your sig...looking forward to those reviews



I am too. That also reminded me to update it. Thanks


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> I am too. That also reminded me to update it. Thanks



You are one busy camper

So these bad boys are really settling in and opening up nicely, doubt that this TRN balanced cable is doing anything to them but they are sure growing on me, not de-throned the 6's yet but at times have met them head on


----------



## neo_styles

LamerDeluxe (tm) said:


> Now that I have received some more balanced cables, I've been listening to my other earphones again. There's something that makes the AS10 so pleasant to listen to. The sound is full and tight because of the BA drivers, with nice texture. Quite forgiving and non-fatiguing. I has a pleasant warmth to the sound and doesn't seem to have any annoying spikes or dips in the spectrum. It sounds pretty smooth, I would describe it as organic, analog sounding. Very good for music with lots of atmosphere, the Stranger Things synth OST sounds really good on it.
> There's the treble roll-off, the soundstage is very small, instrument separation is okay. Somehow when I try them I don't feel like taking them out again.


Glad you were able to notice a difference running the AS10 balanced as well. Seems to be exactly what they needed.


----------



## BoZ29

khighly said:


> ZSN Pro extends to the limits of my hearing as a 28y/o female. It's controlled, but I notice a lot of live recorded songs have a high pitched ringing in the background.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...



Blues for J is a little piercing om my zs7. It’s the recording, not natural PA sound with a good mix.


----------



## 1clearhead

Finally, my KZ ZSN PRO impressions!  

Link:
 Post #22985

Enjoy!


----------



## nicksson

1clearhead said:


> Finally, my KZ ZSN PRO impressions!
> 
> Link:
> Post #22985
> ...


I agree! Me too, I like very much the new ZSN Pro. This is a no end way from good to better iem: yesterday ZSN, now ZSN Pro, tomorrow ZS 10 Pro. After that will be AS10 Pro?


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

hakuzen said:


> yea, time between swapping cables is too much. focusing in definition a short frequency range each time helps a bit, and then, overall sensation. that's what i do.
> 
> some BAs of one of my AS10s (green/cyan) might be out of phase, because sound is awful. i ought to open them and check.
> the other one (red/black) is "right" (but to achieve a more balanced tonality, nearer to my fav signature, have massively eq'd it using an ascending line near to -10dB at 20hZ, to +10dB at 16kHz; excessive)



That is a really tricky problem with these multi-driver iems. Would be handy if there was a test where you could check phase at different frequency ranges to figure out if one of the drivers is out of phase.



neo_styles said:


> Glad you were able to notice a difference running the AS10 balanced as well. Seems to be exactly what they needed.



I really enjoy comparing all these earphones, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Somebody mentioned how the plastic housings of as AS10 actually help with their sound and that does seem to be true, I think it adds to their warmth. I really like the sound quality of the balanced output.


----------



## khighly

BoZ29 said:


> Blues for J is a little piercing om my zs7. It’s the recording, not natural PA sound with a good mix.


Sounds really good on all of my IEM's. ZS7 can't even extend this high.


----------



## khighly

ZS7 have an issue where they will somehow seal entirely in my left ear so that sound is entirely cut off, and I've tried probably 15-20 different types of tips. I cannot wear them without foams at all which is disappointing. I'd love a ZS7 Pro with the new resin/metal design.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

khighly said:


> ZS7 have an issue where they will somehow seal entirely in my left ear so that sound is entirely cut off, and I've tried probably 15-20 different types of tips. I cannot wear them without foams at all which is disappointing. I'd love a ZS7 Pro with the new resin/metal design.


Hate that.  Have had to get rid of some really nice ones before because of that.  You getting zs10pro?


----------



## khighly

BadReligionPunk said:


> Hate that.  Have had to get rid of some really nice ones before because of that.  You getting zs10pro?


Yes. I will probably grab them in a few days or preorder. I hope they sound nearly identical. Literally anything else could be better fit than ZS10.

IMO with KZ's resin/aluminim shell linup, they could be much more of threat to some larger players. Would love to see a ZS6 Pro, ZS7 Pro keeping their sound signatures smilar or slightly improving them.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> ZS7 have an issue where they will somehow seal entirely in my left ear so that sound is entirely cut off, and I've tried probably 15-20 different types of tips. I cannot wear them without foams at all which is disappointing. I'd love a ZS7 Pro with the new resin/metal design.



It sounds like the nozzle vent is not working properly. It’s likely clogged with glue. I would check it with a magnifying glass. You could also poke it with a sharp needle (be sure to do the same thing on both sides so the sound is equal).


----------



## groucho69

khighly said:


> ZS7 have an issue where they will somehow seal entirely in my left ear so that sound is entirely cut off, and I've tried probably 15-20 different types of tips. I cannot wear them without foams at all which is disappointing. I'd love a ZS7 Pro with the new resin/metal design.



Try wearing them sideways


----------



## crabdog

Ok, it's here. Let's give it a listen then.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> Try wearing them sideways



I need to see a photo of that.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

1clearhead said:


> Finally, my KZ ZSN PRO impressions!
> 
> Link:
> Post #22985
> ...



How do they compare to CA4?


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> I need to see a photo of that.



If one exists you'll be the first to know.


----------



## mbwilson111

groucho69 said:


> If one exists you'll be the first to know.



You could take a selfie.


----------



## 1clearhead

Dani157 said:


> How do they compare to CA4?


I like them both! They're just different; the CA4 sounds balanced, while the PRO's has more of a V-shape approach. You can't go wrong with either of them. I will say more on both once I write a review in a few weeks from now.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Have listened to both ZSN and C10, pretty curious how these Pro/A versions sound.


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> You could take a selfie.



Don't own them


----------



## fluteloop

Slater said:


> Haha, yeah that guy is bonkers. Where is he even getting power for the turntable from? Is he also lugging around a battery pack?



I bet he's running on tritium cells.


----------



## moisespr123

Just ordered the KZ ZS10 Pro. Let's see how it goes with them. I'm using the ZS7 right now


----------



## BadReligionPunk

groucho69 said:


> Try wearing them sideways


If you put them in your nose it tickles.


----------



## Superluc




----------



## Slater

Presenting the KZ EDR1 Pro:


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> Presenting the KZ EDR1 Pro:


For real?


----------



## khighly

ZSN Pro $16.75. I think this is a good deal?

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/be8l5xZQ


----------



## crabdog

khighly said:


> ZSN Pro $16.75. I think this is a good deal?
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/be8l5xZQ


Even at $20, it's a fantastic deal. The ZSN Pro is absurdly good.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> Presenting the KZ EDR1 Pro:


What?...You're kidding me!  ...Awesome!


----------



## 416805

crabdog said:


> Even at $20, it's a fantastic deal. The ZSN Pro is absurdly good.



dunno at $25 u can get CCA C10. (aliexpress)


----------



## crabdog

chancool said:


> dunno at $25 u can get CCA C10. (aliexpress)


I guess you didn't see my C10 review because I rated the original ZSN higher. The C10 is great but its nerfed lower treble makes it too dull IMO. So, considering the ZSN Pro is an upgrade over the original...no-brainer material.


----------



## 416805

ah i see, for me i dislike how the zsn sounded. too much bass and treble is unbearable so c10 is a welcome change tbh. this sounded really nice


----------



## archdawg (Apr 17, 2019)

khighly said:


> IMO with KZ's resin/aluminim shell linup, they could be much more of threat to some larger players. Would love to see a ZS6 Pro, ZS7 Pro keeping their sound signatures smilar or slightly improving them.


+1 on the Pro versions, even though I'm still wondering what on earth made them put two HF BA into the ZS6 in the first place. 
Anyways, I love mine, most of the piercing highs disapeared after some serious burn-in/out and the screwed-on back plate is an open invitation to mod the living cr.p out of them.


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> For real?





1clearhead said:


> What?...You're kidding me!  ...Awesome!



The only downside is the jack I used doesn’t work with every mmcx cable. The center pin seems to be just a fraction of a mm too short to make contact. It does work with some cables though (ironically, it works with every KZ mmcx cable I own).

It’s nice breathing life into an old friend and classic KZ.


----------



## 416805

im super satisfied with CCA C10, i think my next upgrafe gonna be for a while and going to Mid-fi iem. thanks CCA/Kz for this


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> The only downside is the jack I used doesn’t work with every mmcx cable. The center pin seems to be just a fraction of a mm too short to make contact. It does work with some cables though (ironically, it works with every KZ mmcx cable I own).
> 
> It’s nice breathing life into an old friend and classic KZ.


Damn...Just made my O face. 

Been meaning to work on the ed9 as I have the step by step for that. 

Good work. awesome!


----------



## Slater (Apr 17, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Damn...Just made my O face.
> 
> Been meaning to work on the ed9 as I have the step by step for that.
> 
> Good work. awesome!



Thanks.

I tried ED9 a few weeks ago and it was an epic fail. The glue just doesn’t hold for more than 1 or 2 plugging insertions and removals. I need to try a different or stronger glue.

I wish that guy said what exact glue he used, and how his are holding up after a few months and a number of cable swaps.

I hope you have better luck with your ED9 than me.

The problem is when it fails you have a big dried globby glue mess, making resoldering the mmcx or replacing the mmcx jack with a new one impossible. So basically it renders the ED9 useless. You can at least salvage the filters and tips, and reuse the cable on something else (like recabling an MH755), but you have to buy another ED9 to try the whole thing over again. At $10 a pair, failure can get expensive fast.

The EDR1 are 1/3 the cost, so I could afford to screw up a few pairs as I learned the process.


----------



## 416805

anyone ever change their cca c10 cable? does it have any difference with any other 2 pin connectors?

i want to change it to a more aesthetically pleasing cable.


----------



## Leo-rume (Apr 17, 2019)

chancool said:


> anyone ever change their cca c10 cable? does it have any difference with any other 2 pin connectors?
> 
> i want to change it to a more aesthetically pleasing cable.



No difference as far as I can tell. I swapped mine for the Trn 0.75mm 8 core cable. I found the stock cable really ugly. It fits perfectly and comfortably. The connectors extend outwards a bit more than the stock cable but its not even remotely disturbing, to me at least. I didn't notice any difference in sound. Any other 0.75mm 2pin cable should work. Technically, the 0.78mm cables should work too, but as has been said here a couple of times, once you go 0.78mm, you can't necessarily return to 0.75mm as the 2pin slots on the IEM might have been stretched, making them a little loose for 0.75mm cables.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 18, 2019)

chancool said:


> anyone ever change their cca c10 cable? does it have any difference with any other 2 pin connectors?
> 
> i want to change it to a more aesthetically pleasing cable.


These Copper Silver Mixed Upgrade Cables "Type B pin" brought out the best out of my C10's!

 

LINK: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CCA...CA-C10-C16-KZ-Ba10-Zs10-Zst/32993691952.html?

-Clear


----------



## mono-type (Apr 17, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> These Copper Silver Mixed Upgrade Cables "Type B pin" brought out the best out of my C10's!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the type A pin should be used on the CCA C10 instead of type B, since the C10 uses 0.75mm connectors, and the type B is 0.78mm. As @Leo-rume have said, once you used a 0.78mm plug on a 0.75mm connector, you can't go back on using 0.75 again, since it loosens the connectors.

EDIT: Never mind. I stand corrected by Slater and Leo-lume. XD Always thought that the type "B" connectors are 0.78mm, until they pointed out that KZ connectors are always 0.75mm.


----------



## Slater

mono-type said:


> I think the type A pin should be used on the CCA C10 instead of type B, since the C10 uses 0.75mm connectors, and the type B is 0.78mm. As @Leo-rume have said, once you used a 0.78mm plug on a 0.75mm connector, you can't go back on using 0.75 again, since it loosens the connectors.



Everything KZ makes (ie genuine KZ cables and IEMs) is 0.75mm.

Type A, B, and C.

The only exception is the original matte finish ZS3, which were recalled due to defects and very rare. They were 0.78mm.


----------



## 416805

1clearhead said:


> These Copper Silver Mixed Upgrade Cables "Type B pin" brought out the best out of my c10's
> 
> LINK: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CCA...CA-C10-C16-KZ-Ba10-Zs10-Zst/32993691952.html?
> 
> -Clear



that cable look so beautiful. i think i'll get that one


----------



## Leo-rume

mono-type said:


> I think the type A pin should be used on the CCA C10 instead of type B, since the C10 uses 0.75mm connectors, and the type B is 0.78mm. As @Leo-rume have said, once you used a 0.78mm plug on a 0.75mm connector, you can't go back on using 0.75 again, since it loosens the connectors.



I think there's been a tiny little misconception here on what type kz cables fits flush on the CCA C10. I remember asking the question some time ago and I was told "type A". I ordered one and the transparent plastic portion sticks out. Not that it doesn't work. It works fine and it's quite stable too, just doesn't fit flush like the type B cable would.

Just to be clear now; The type B cable fits flush on the C10 and as slater has said, yes, both cables are 0.75mm.


----------



## mono-type

Slater said:


> Everything KZ makes (ie genuine KZ cables and IEMs) is 0.75mm.
> 
> Type A, B, and C.
> 
> The only exception is the original matte finish ZS3, which were recalled due to defects and very rare. They were 0.78mm.





Leo-rume said:


> I think there's been a tiny little misconception here on what type kz cables fits flush on the CCA C10. I remember asking the question some time ago and I was told "type A". I ordered one and the transparent plastic portion sticks out. Not that it doesn't work. It works fine and it's quite stable too, just doesn't fit flush like the type B cable would.
> 
> Just to be clear now; The type B cable fits flush on the C10 and as slater has said, yes, both cables are 0.75mm.



Oh, I've always thought KZ's "type B", as in the ones used in ZSR, AS10, ZS10, etc. are 0.78mm. I never knew until now that whether it's type A, B, or C, KZ is always .75mm. Guess I've stand corrected, then.


----------



## gefellmics (Apr 17, 2019)

Btw, here is a really nice 8 core upgrade cable for the KZ ZSN (much better than the "upgrade cable" in silver from KZ...very thin and looks really cheap compared to this black one...)
It arrived me today and it improves the sound quite a lot...much better controlled bass and the sharpness change to smooth nice treble.
Since the new KZ ZSN Pro and KZ ZS10Pro will have the same connector...this cable is a really good alternate to the original.

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/8-st...955.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4daIdNiA

Here few pics:


----------



## Nimweth

1clearhead said:


> These Copper Silver Mixed Upgrade Cables "Type B pin" brought out the best out of my C10's!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a nice one, similar to the one I am using, which is this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FYXPCWP?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Works well on the C16 too.


----------



## mbwilson111

gefellmics said:


> Btw, here is a really nice 8 core upgrade cable for the KZ ZSN (much better than the "upgrade cable" in silver from KZ...very thin and looks really cheap compared to this black one...)
> It arrived me today and it improves the sound quite a lot...much better controlled bass and the sharpness change to smooth nice treble.
> Since the new KZ ZSN Pro and KZ ZS10Pro will have the same connector...this cable is a really good alternate to the original.
> 
> ...



That is the one that I bought for my second KZ ZSN. I bought the balanced version because a couple of my DAPs do have a balanced output.  My purple ZSN will keep its original cable.

Very nice flexible cable.


----------



## gefellmics

Nimweth said:


> That's a nice one, similar to the one I am using, which is this one:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FYXPCWP?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
> Works well on the C16 too.


Yes, but unfortunately the standard 2 pin connector don't fit exactly fit the new KZ series. It seems a bit instabile and with this "outside connector" the whole cable is too long for a flash seat around the ear.


----------



## 416805

I just looked at TRN 8 Core Gold cable.






its looks really nice, i think im gonna take that instead of the KZ upgrade cable. i hope i won't regret it, should be arriving today.


----------



## gefellmics (Apr 17, 2019)

chancool said:


> I just looked at TRN 8 Core Gold cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Few weeks ago I used the black-white TRN 8 Core cable and didn't like how it changes the sound. It makes the sharpness much more present and decreased the sound stage...I used it with different inears. But maybe I just got a bad one....so I sold it on Ebay.
It was this one
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/8-Core-Silber-berzogene-Kabel-Mmcx-2pin-Hifi-Kopfh-rer-Stecker-Verwenden-F-r-Trn-V10/32990597247.html?spm=a2g0x.search0604.3.81.2660681dwIhQfM&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10084_453_10083_454_10618_10304_10307_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10843_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=dee37fef-9d8c-4354-82cd-84d0ec3a588b&algo_expid=dee37fef-9d8c-4354-82cd-84d0ec3a588b-13


----------



## mbwilson111

gefellmics said:


> Few weeks ago I used the black-white TRN 8 Core cable and didn't like how it changes the sound. It makes the sharpness much more present and decreased the sound stage...I used it with different inears. But maybe I just got a bad one....so I sold it on Ebay.
> It was this one
> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/8-Core-Silber-berzogene-Kabel-Mmcx-2pin-Hifi-Kopfh-rer-Stecker-Verwenden-F-r-Trn-V10/32990597247.html



Maybe it was wired incorrectly making it out of phase.   BTW, those long links can be shorted to omit the spam part... delete everything after the .html   A trick someone told me long ago.  I forget what all that extra stuff does.


----------



## Nimweth

gefellmics said:


> Yes, but unfortunately the standard 2 pin connector don't fit exactly fit the new KZ series. It seems a bit instabile and with this "outside connector" the whole cable is too long for a flash seat around the ear.


That's interesting. It fits perfectly on my ZS7 and is very secure, supple and  comfortable around the ear.


----------



## mbwilson111

Nimweth said:


> That's interesting. It fits perfectly on my ZS7 and is very secure, supple and  comfortable around the ear.



It doesn't fit that clear plastic connector in the ZSN and there are others coming with that connector.


----------



## 416805

gefellmics said:


> Few weeks ago I used the black-white TRN 8 Core cable and didn't like how it changes the sound. It makes the sharpness much more present and decreased the sound stage...I used it with different inears. But maybe I just got a bad one....so I sold it on Ebay.
> It was this one
> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/8-Core-Silber-berzogene-Kabel-Mmcx-2pin-Hifi-Kopfh-rer-Stecker-Verwenden-F-r-Trn-V10/32990597247.html?spm=a2g0x.search0604.3.81.2660681dwIhQfM&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10084_453_10083_454_10618_10304_10307_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10843_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=dee37fef-9d8c-4354-82cd-84d0ec3a588b&algo_expid=dee37fef-9d8c-4354-82cd-84d0ec3a588b-13



oh crap thats the exact same cable finger crossed i got a good one.


----------



## mbwilson111

chancool said:


> oh crap thats the exact same cable finger crossed i got a good one.



My husband @HungryPanda has at least two of those and they are good.


----------



## gefellmics (Apr 17, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> That's interesting. It fits perfectly on my ZS7 and is very secure, supple and  comfortable around the ear.


For the ZS7 the usual standard 2pin is no problem...I was speaking about the "new" ZSN connector outside of the earcup. This makes a crap connection with any standard 2pin cable. Very instabile and looks ugly.


----------



## 416805

mbwilson111 said:


> My husband @HungryPanda has at least two of those and they are good.



i see then if anything wrong with them i just returned them then.

thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

gefellmics said:


> For the ZS7 the usual standard 2pin is no problem...I was speaking about the "new" ZSN connector outside of the earcup. This makes a crap connection with any standard 2pin cable. Very instabile and looks ugly.



That look would bother me.  I am happy that this other one is available.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

chancool said:


> I just looked at TRN 8 Core Gold cable.
> 
> Had that on my c10/cyan. Looked dope! Then I tried to trim the excess plastic off and my exacto went completely through the metal pins and everything... Doh!
> Have 2.5 balanced in country now will use my dremel and lightly sand down the plastic this time.
> ...


----------



## 416805

yep it looks dope AF. my c10 is sadly purple.

i really want thw cyan but its out of stock when i buy them sigh


----------



## nxnje

Just got my ZSN Pro.
Boys, i do not own the ZSN but i prefer the ZSN Pro to the C10.. i'm not after 100hrs on the C10, but the ZSN Pro are just.. fresh!

@Slater saw you posted the EDR1 Pro. Was that a troll or reality? 
Imma grab one if it's real!


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> @Slater saw you posted the EDR1 Pro. Was that a troll or reality?
> Imma grab one if it's real!



No, I made that myself by modding an EDR1 from the fixed cable to mmcx.

It’s the same idea as the mmcx conversions some people have done to the Sony MH755, KZ ED9, and @CoiL’s ATE from back in the day.

I referred to it as the EDR1 Pro because I was poking fun at how everything has the word “Pro” after it now.

KZ has nothing that comes stock with mmcx that I know of.

Sorry if I confused anyone!


----------



## mbwilson111

Who here has the KZ ZS3E?


----------



## Leo-rume

mbwilson111 said:


> Who here has the KZ ZS3E?


I do. In my ears actually


----------



## mbwilson111

Leo-rume said:


> I do. In my ears actually



cool... what do you think?


----------



## Leo-rume

mbwilson111 said:


> cool... what do you think?


I posted my impressions about them some pages back, specifically comparing them with the regular ZS3(slater mod). I'll search for it and link it.


----------



## mbwilson111

Leo-rume said:


> I posted my impressions about them some pages back, specifically comparing them with the regular ZS3(slater mod). I'll search for it and link it.



found it ... I should have searched.  I always get annoyed when others don't.  LOL


----------



## Wiljen

ZST lineage in comparison.




 

Red = Zsn Pro
Blue = Zsn
Black = Zst
(All run back to back on same date)


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> ZST lineage in comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, the ZST is roll off city.

That ZST BA driver doesn’t even look like it’s working. That whole ZST FR graph could all be from the dynamic, as the ZST doesn’t have a crossover.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> No, I made that myself by modding an EDR1 from the fixed cable to mmcx.
> 
> It’s the same idea as the mmcx conversions some people have done to the Sony MH755, KZ ED9, and @CoiL’s ATE from back in the day.
> 
> ...



Uuuuh i really wanna do that with my edr1 as well, i hate EDR1's cable but i even love the EDR1 itself.
How did you do that?


----------



## Slater (Apr 18, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Uuuuh i really wanna do that with my edr1 as well, i hate EDR1's cable but i even love the EDR1 itself.
> How did you do that?



Very carefully haha

Yeah, those sticky KZ ‘gut’ cables were the worst, weren’t they? If you breathed on them they tangled.

So how comfortable are you with micro level stuff? It is not a mod for the faint of heart.

On a difficulty scale from 1-10, I’d rate this a 7.5.

There’s a number of challenges you have to overcome:
1. Seeing what your doing (ie magnification)
2. Getting the shells apart without destroying them
3. Modifying the shells for the mmcx jacks
4. Soldering everything without botching anything up

For doing most of the work, clearly seeing what you’re doing is a challenge (especially soldering).

I don’t own a soldering microscope (I wish I did), as it would have made the job so much easier (at least the soldering).

For seeing what I was doing I had to use a combination of reading glasses, jeweler’s optivisors, and a magnifying glass (the kind attached to soldering ‘helping hands’.

Getting the shells apart was a big challenge. 1 shell did pop apart with nothing but my hands exerting moderate force. The rest (80%) were put together so tight, I had to use 2 pairs of channel lock pliers to grip each half of the shells. And even then extreme force was required to just barely loosen them at the seam. Then I spent about 5 minutes of careful prying and leveraging with an iSeasamo.

It’s also difficult to prevent cosmetic damage to the shells. I used rubber tubing to protect the shells from getting marred by the grip of the pliers, but even with the tubing I still chewed up the shells in a few spots trying to pry them apart. At least the eartip covers up the plier marks I made on the nozzle.

Heat did not help loosen the shells either; they’re mechanically pressed together (not glued).

As far as modifying the shells for the jacks, that’s fairly straightforward. You just enlarge the hole that the stock wire goes though. I tried 2 different types of mmcx jacks and they didn’t work at all. I ended up using a threaded jack which did work, but it’s some sort of ghetto mmcx jack that only works with a small # of mmcx cables. I ordered a 4th style of mmcx jack that I am hoping might work better, but it hasn’t arrived yet so I have no clue if it will work or not.

The next hurdle is soldering. You have to have a fairly good soldering iron (or soldering station), with a really small tip like for SMD work. Otherwise you may as well not bother. A cheap 30W eBay/Radio Shack pencil soldering iron isn’t going to cut it. Something like a Hakko FX-888D is fine.

Soldering the wires to the mmcx terminals is extremely difficult, as you can botch up the jack or even solder the terminals together. You can’t imagine how small these wires and jacks are. Imagine gluing a 1” piece of dental floss to the tip of a pencil. That’s  how small this stuff is!

I have the utmost respect for our friends in China that assemble these multi driver IEMs every single day. I know we all get irritated when there’s a little QC defect with our $25 budget IEMs, but I can only imagine perfectly soldering and assembling 10 drivers, jacks, and crossovers into an IEM. Making sure everything is wired in phase, soldered perfectly, mounted properly, sealed up, etc.

Anyways, you also have to keep the wire pieces as short as possible, or else everything won’t fit back into the shell. My wires were about 0.75” total, and you have to hold everything in place while soldering with helping hands and/or tweezers.

There’s no room for error, and you have to have very steady hands. If your hands shake worse than a meth addict, you’re gonna have a difficult time.

Of course you also have to be careful not to overheat the drivers (which will damage or destroy them). That’s why you need a really good soldering iron. You have to be done soldering in a fraction of a second (like 0.5 second max).

You have to watch your wire phase to make sure you solder everything properly. On the mmcx jack, the center pin is + and the outer terminal is -. For the driver, it varies between drivers. Most manufacturers put a red mark on or near the + terminal, or you can usually go by the colors of the stock wires. You can also use a multimeter and check the wires in the stock 3.5mm cable to figure out what wire is what.

Before you close to the shells you’ll want to test the mmcx jacks of course. I used a multimeter to check for continuity, proper +/- connectivity, and electrical shorts. If all that is good, you’re almost home free. I would not connect a mmcx cable until after you close the shells.

Putting it back together is fairly straightforward. You carefully tuck all the excess wire in with tweezers and close up the shells. I gently and evenly pressed the 2 halves of the shells back together using a small mini vice made for working on watches and jewelry.

The whole process took me about 2.5 hours, but a lot of that was trial and error and solving problems by winging it as I went along.

Just like anything, practice makes perfect and as I do it more often I’ll get better and faster. My goal was really to start practicing on cheap EDRs before I attempted progressively more expensive or harder IEMs (like MH755, ED9, Moondrop Crescent, building my own IEMs with Knowles BAs, etc).

Whew! That’s about all I can think of. I hope that’s helpful!

_P.S. I forgot to mention...when you’re pulling apart the shells it’s a tricky balancing act. You have to pull apart the shells with enough force to pop them apart, but the instant they loosen you have to dial back the force or you will rip the wires right off the driver. This is easier said than done, especially when you are prying and twisting with all your might using 2 giant pairs of channel lock pliers._


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gefellmics said:


> Few weeks ago I used the black-white TRN 8 Core cable and didn't like how it changes the sound.


I find the TRN cables crap. Stock KZ cables are light years better. I dont know why people change their cables. KZ cares about the quality of their products.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 18, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Just got my ZSN Pro. Boys, i do not own the ZSN but i prefer the ZSN Pro to the C10.. i'm not after 100hrs on the C10, but the ZSN Pro are Fresh!


The C10 do sound slightly boring but they make it up by sounding really amazing.  Thanks for your ZSN Pro comment.


----------



## 416805 (Apr 18, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find the TRN cables crap. Stock KZ cables are light years better. I dont know why people change their cables. KZ cares about the quality of their products.



my main reason is basically looks. for me the stock cable have this dark brown + black plastic look and i don't like it

EDIT: It has arrived looks really nice i love it.

BUT, holy crap dude u called it lmao. i got the faulty one. left cable not working lmao

in the end i asked for KZ mixed upgrade cable for the replacement. tha kfully the seller is willing to do that


----------



## Leo-rume (Apr 19, 2019)

KZ has released a new upgrade cable. 8 core gold and silver plated mixed cable. Lol.. Yes, gold plated. Anyways, from the pictures it seems to be a lot thicker than the initial copper silver mixed cable and I think same thickness as the Trn 8 core cables. 

 

 





Also with added support for C type ZSN, ZSN pro and ZS10 pro connectors. But no type A support. Not yet at least.




Available only in gold colour for now. I really hope they make a black, silver colour variant like the Trn or just anything dark.

Link: 
(Mobile) https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/wIncm0s

(Web) https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33002045848.html


----------



## Makahl (Apr 18, 2019)

KZ if you're reading it... it's time for a lightweight cable like the Linum with your special price.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> Very carefully haha
> 
> Yeah, those sticky KZ ‘gut’ cables were the worst, weren’t they? If you breathed on them they tangled.
> 
> ...


That is very detailed.
I think i'm ordering one or two pairs of em in order to try doing something like this.
I have to ask if my father has got a micro-soldering unit so i can make it easier.
You're always kind!
Thanks a lot!



LaughMoreDaily said:


> The C10 do sound slightly boring but they make it up by sounding really amazing.  Thanks for your ZSN Pro comment.


I feel the same thing about the C10.
I think they're master in tonality and coherency and they're even so natural and non-fatiguing, but their very peaceful and smooth nature just makes me think sometimes: "am i listening to music?"
Sometimes i do not even realize i've passed 20-30 mins listening to some dubstep. That's why i love more aggressive thinks like the ZS6/ZS7.


----------



## 416805

i love how versatile C10 is, man this is really a step up from MH755 and ZST Pro.

I can listen to Metal track (but not the hardcore one, not the one with tons of bass that makes it sounded messy. i can listen to Queen easily, prolly my fav for now for listening to classic rock music. then i can play some electronic music like Justice/Daft Punk. it can handle pop pretty well too altho i didn't listen to it that much. then Orchestra stuff is really detailed i love how it sound and how detail it gets. from orchestra to opera, overall its really amazing. (especially since i diving deeper into all the music i listen too).

My next one is probably gonna be Moondrop Blessing (since i don't really care that much about bass) people say the mid and treble in those are pretty good. i really want to try it. (thanks to c10 i think i can skip on Kanas Pro)


----------



## loomisjohnson (Apr 18, 2019)

Slater said:


> Presenting the KZ EDR1 Pro:





Slater said:


> Very carefully haha
> 
> Yeah, those sticky KZ ‘gut’ cables were the worst, weren’t they? If you breathed on them they tangled.
> 
> ...


i am truly envious of your skills--the foregoing epitomizes the difference between someone who can actually build something and someone like myself, who struggles to change batteries on the tv remote. on a certain level, it seems like overkill for a $3 iem (like putting a mercedes grill on an old vw), but that's probably just my jealousy.


----------



## Slater (Apr 18, 2019)

nxnje said:


> That is very detailed.
> I think i'm ordering one or two pairs of em in order to try doing something like this.
> I have to ask if my father has got a micro-soldering unit so i can make it easier.
> You're always kind!
> Thanks a lot!



You’re welcome friend.

Good luck, and be sure to keep us posted with your progress!

_P.S. I forgot to mention...when you’re pulling apart the shells it’s a tricky balancing act. You have to pull apart the shells with enough force to pop them apart, but the instant they loosen you have to dial back the force or you will rip the wires right off the driver. This is easier said than done, especially when you are prying and twisting with all your might using 2 giant pairs of channel lock pliers._


----------



## Slater (Apr 18, 2019)

loomisjohnson said:


> i am truly envious of your skills--the foregoing epitomizes the difference between someone who can actually build something and someone like myself, who struggles to change batteries on the tv remote. on a certain level, it seems like overkill for a $3 iem (like putting a mercedes grill on an old vw), but that's probably just my jealousy.



I totally get what you’re saying, and on the surface it does seem like a waste of time.

However, the main reason I did it was for practice before moving onto the real thing.

So in your example, if I’ve never done it in my life, I would rather practice my skills putting a few grilles on a few beat up VWs before I moved onto putting a grille on a $200k TOTL Mercedes. I wouldn’t start with the high end Mercedes.

Likewise, back in the day when I was a bench jeweler, while I was first learning how to set diamonds and gemstones I practiced on piles of $0.10 cubic zirconias and other scrap jewelry that was destined to be melted down anyways. I chipped and broke many of them in the process before I finally perfected my techniques. But it was no problem because they were $0.10 here or $2 there. Then and only then did I have the confidence to move onto setting a $40k diamond without chipping or breaking it 

When you learn how to weld, you weld on nothing but scrap metal until your skills are better.

I guess it’s the same as any skill really. Or at least that pertains to someone like me. I’m not one of those types that can just try something for the 1st time I’ve never done and be expert level. There are those types of people out there though!


----------



## 1clearhead

Leo-rume said:


> I think there's been a tiny little misconception here on what type kz cables fits flush on the CCA C10. I remember asking the question some time ago and I was told "type A". I ordered one and the transparent plastic portion sticks out. Not that it doesn't work. It works fine and it's quite stable too, just doesn't fit flush like the type B cable would.
> 
> Just to be clear now; The type B cable fits flush on the C10 and as slater has said, yes, both cables are 0.75mm.


Yes, type B fits it perfectly flush!


----------



## Benik3

Guys, is there any nice cable, but with microphone? (ZS7) :/


----------



## nxnje

Benik3 said:


> Can anyone compare ZSN/ZSN Pro to ZS7?
> Thanks



Dunno if i'm still in time but..
i've received my ZSN Pro and i have the ZS7 as well.
I can say the ZS7 is warmer, more technical with a better bass and sub-bass response. 
If you're looking for the best low end response between the two, zs7 is the way. Consider the ZSN Pro can be bought at half the price of the ZS7 sounding way good in any case.
ZS7 is more technical, this is my 2$.


----------



## pbui44 (Apr 18, 2019)

Slater said:


> I totally get what you’re saying, and on the surface it does seem like a waste of time.
> 
> However, the main reason I did it was for practice before moving onto the real thing.
> 
> ...





nxnje said:


> Dunno if i'm still in time but..
> i've received my ZSN Pro and i have the ZS7 as well.
> I can say the ZS7 is warmer, more technical with a better bass and sub-bass response.
> If you're looking for the best low end response between the two, zs7 is the way. Consider the ZSN Pro can be bought at half the price of the ZS7 sounding way good in any case.
> ZS7 is more technical, this is my *2$*.




https://www.paperboyaustin.com/
https://m.yelp.com/biz/paperboy-austin


----------



## gbrgbr

Someone here was looking for a KZ Type-C cable.

Seems to be available at the MissAudio Store. Para-A and -B.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...ed-OFC-Upgrade-0-75mm-For-KZ/33005034936.html

If anyone gets it now, please check if the chip has changed using ChipGenius. Like:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2622#post-14649724


----------



## 416805

my C10 new look

 
im digging how it look, but if im being honest i cam't for the life of me notice any difference in sound quality.


----------



## mbwilson111

chancool said:


> im digging how it look, but if im being honest i cam't for the life of me notice any difference in sound quality



I have never personally noticed a sound difference with cables.  I only change cables for aesthetic or ergonomic reasons...or if I want a balanced cable.


----------



## maxxevv

chancool said:


> my C10 new look
> 
> im digging how it look, but if im being honest i cam't for the life of me notice any difference in sound quality.





mbwilson111 said:


> I have never personally noticed a sound difference with cables.  I only change cables for aesthetic or ergonomic reasons...or if I want a balanced cable.



Its mostly in the sound levels with cables used. 

On the AS10, the original KZ cable measured about 0.7 Ohm. I changed to a NiceHCK 8-core cable that measured 0.11 Ohms. 
To my ears, the tonality of the earphones certainly didn't alter significantly to be discernible. But if I set the volume to very low levels ( both at 15/70 on my LG G6 Quad DAC) , I was picking up some details that I previously couldn't . However, once I upped the volume to my normal listening levels (20~22/70), they both sounded the same. 

My conclusion from that was the original KZ cable was attenuating some very low level signals due to the higher resistance rating. 

I certainly haven't discerned any tonal changes in the earphones from changing of cables despite the distinctly different resistance levels of the 2 cables I used. How people conclude that they can is beyond me though.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Apr 19, 2019)

chancool said:


> my C10 new look
> 
> im digging how it look, but if im being honest i cam't for the life of me notice any difference in sound quality.


You do not hear slightly more accentuated highs? Opened-up bass and the mid-bass subdued nicely? Soundstage slightly expanding for definitely more overall enjoyable listening experience?!

Me too!
But we can always use our imagination 

Very nice look - gold & silver - magnificent!


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

Leo-rume said:


> KZ has released a new upgrade cable. 8 core gold and silver plated mixed cable. Lol.. Yes, gold plated. Anyways, from the pictures it seems to be a lot thicker than the initial copper silver mixed cable and I think same thickness as the Trn 8 core cables.
> 
> Also with added support for C type ZSN, ZSN pro and ZS10 pro connectors. But no type A support. Not yet at least.
> 
> ...



This link goes to the home page and not the product page.


----------



## mbwilson111

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> This link goes to the home page and not the product page.



People keep posting those mobile links but they never work for me on my PC or on my tablet.  I guess they work for those using their phone but I don't use a phone  to access headfi.  Need a proper keyboard to type.


----------



## kramercosmo

Hello,

I have probably around 10 kz earphones there one earpiece is dead. have anyone tried to replace the cable? how hard is it? what do i need do to it?

Thanks!


----------



## mbwilson111

kramercosmo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have probably around 10 kz earphones there one earpiece is dead. have anyone tried to replace the cable? how hard is it? what do i need do to it?
> 
> Thanks!



What model KZ is it?


----------



## kramercosmo

mbwilson111 said:


> What model KZ is it?



Oh sorry. It is ATR.


----------



## Slater

kramercosmo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have probably around 10 kz earphones there one earpiece is dead. have anyone tried to replace the cable? how hard is it? what do i need do to it?
> 
> Thanks!





kramercosmo said:


> Oh sorry. It is ATR.



Luckily the ATx models are really easy to pop open and work on. The glue they used to hold the shells together is very weak.

Just don’t use superglue when putting the shells back together and you’ll be fine. Use a very minimal amount of 2-part epoxy applied with a toothpick.


----------



## neo_styles

Next round of NiceHCK balanced cables came in yesterday, so thought I'd spare my iSine10 the risk of getting drenched by stereotypical Seattle weather and haul out the ZS7 instead, this time paired with the 16-core SPC balanced cable. Turns out that, aesthetically, they're a perfect match for each other. Really like that the 2-pin connector sits flush with the trim edge of the ZS7's shell. Really looks like they were made to go together.



 
 
 

Comfort is on par with the standard copper 16-core cable I have from them. While the cable looks like it should be a hefty weight, it's perfectly manageable. Cable length is long enough to be able to store a plugged-in DAP in my back pocket, but not so long that it's catching on anything as I'm walking by. Really do like the length here.

In terms of what it does to the ZS7's sound, I can't say I'm raving about it yet, but I have been listening to a lot of premium stuff lately and need to work on not letting bias come into play here. If anything, I think it brings some of that top-end back that was present on the ZS6, again tones down the elevated bass to a more natural level without losing a ton of impact, but it never gets so spacious that I trick myself into thinking I've got the ZS6 back in again. Still much the same character as the ZS7 with the stock cable and wide-bore tips (which I'm still convinced they pretty much require), but with a little more refinement. It gets my seal of approval.


----------



## kramercosmo

Slater said:


> Luckily the ATx models are really easy to pop open and work on. The glue they used to hold the shells together is very weak.
> 
> Just don’t use superglue when putting the shells back together and you’ll be fine. Use a very minimal amount of 2-part epoxy applied with a toothpick.



Thank you, i will open it and check what if i want to change the connector? do you know if it's hard to change the connector to MMCX?


----------



## Slater

kramercosmo said:


> Thank you, i will open it and check what if i want to change the connector? do you know if it's hard to change the connector to MMCX?



You would want to check with @CoiL, as he’s done the mmcx jack swap on an ATE. It will be the exact same process for the ATR as they are the same shell.


----------



## Slater

.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 20, 2019)

chancool said:


> i love how versatile C10 is, man this is really a step up from MH755 and ZST Pro. Thanks to c10 i think i can skip on Kanas Pro.


You heard it on Headfi first. C10 is better than Kanas Pro!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

chancool said:


> my main reason is basically looks. for me the KZ stock cable have this dark brown + black plastic look and i don't like it.


It is a bronze color.


----------



## Leo-rume

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> This link goes to the home page and not the product page.





mbwilson111 said:


> People keep posting those mobile links but they never work for me on my PC or on my tablet.  I guess they work for those using their phone but I don't use a phone  to access headfi.  Need a proper keyboard to type.



Sorry about that. I've just edited the post to include the web links too.


----------



## nxnje

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You heard it on Headfi first. C10 is better than Kanas Pro!


Hey wait wait wait wait.
What is this about?


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> Hey wait wait wait wait.
> What is this about?



Just that someone liked the C10 enough to not feel the need to buy the Kanas.


----------



## nxnje

mbwilson111 said:


> Just that someone liked the C10 enough to not feel the need to buy the Kanas.



And this is ok.
But how does he say the Kanas Pro is better than the C10?
What does the C10 do bettee compared with Kanas Pro?
I'm curious just because i love my C10 but i definitely think they're quite boring.


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> And this is ok.
> But how does he say the Kanas Pro is better than the C10?
> What does the C10 do bettee compared with Kanas Pro?
> I'm curious just because i love my C10 but i definitely think they're quite boring.



Don't worry about it... he was just making a remark... more like a joke.


----------



## DynamicEars (Apr 19, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You heard it on Headfi first. C10 is better than Kanas Pro!





nxnje said:


> Hey wait wait wait wait.
> What is this about?



@LaughMoreDaily Oh no you've just started a war!


----------



## mbwilson111

nxnje said:


> i love my C10 but i definitely think they're quite boring.



Maybe you need to discover some new music!  

Tonight I listened to a couple of my favorite albums with these... I was not bored.   I have only had them a couple of days.  Does not take much money to make me happy


----------



## darmanastartes

DynamicEars said:


> @LaughMoreDaily Oh no you've just started a war!


Don't tell @CoiL...


----------



## voicemaster

Just got ZSN pro on the mail today and I can hear the improvement over the regular ZSN. It sounds more open/airy than the OG. Vocal is a little bit more forward and the major different is the high. I say the high is pretty similar to C10's. It is amazing how KZ can tune their "old" IEM to make it even better. Make the mid bass a little bit tighter then you get a more forward vocal as a result. Less roll of the high then you got a more open presentation. Those little/subtle things add up to make it better sounding than the OG imho.


----------



## nxnje

DynamicEars said:


> @LaughMoreDaily Oh no you've just started a war!


No war, i'm not that kind of guy when i write on this forum 



mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe you need to discover some new music!
> 
> Tonight I listened to a couple of my favorite albums with these... I was not bored.   I have only had them a couple of days.  Does not take much money to make me happy


Wait. Obviously, i'm speaking after less usage than my ZS7, ZS6 and others.
It is just that is very smooth sounding compared to the ZSN Pro and the tuning of the ZSN Pro makes them more dynamic so it gets my attention in a different way.
I will use the C10 more.


----------



## groucho69

Slater said:


> .



I don't know how many times I've said this.


----------



## randomnin

groucho69 said:


> I don't know how many times I've said this.


Yes, we all take great pride in making good points.


----------



## jibberish

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe you need to discover some new music!
> 
> Tonight I listened to a couple of my favorite albums with these... I was not bored.   I have only had them a couple of days.  Does not take much money to make me happy


Nice, eventually curiosity caught up with me and I ordered one too  Mostly because that shell is such a perfect fit for me with the ZS4, plus I really am enjoying the sound on the other single DD KZ model I have (ED9). Also the stock cable looks nicer than the one that came with ZS4, although you seem to have brought out the heavy artillery on that front.

My ZS3E should arrive tomorrow


----------



## mbwilson111

jibberish said:


> Also the stock cable looks nicer than the one that came with ZS4, although you seem to have brought out the heavy artillery on that front.
> 
> My ZS3E should arrive tomorrow



The stock cable is fine but I  had bought that other cable (NiceHCK} for one of my more expensive buds but then it did not look as good with it as I thought it would ( used a black one instead.)   I love how this one looks with the black earpieces of the ZS3E.  It cost twice as much as the IEM.. lol.


----------



## Gallamoth

Hello fellas!

Any recommendation for better cable and eartips for the ED16?
The stock ones make me really uncomfortable, the cable looks like would break easily and the eartips gets dirt pretty easy and slide off easily from my ear.


----------



## mbwilson111

Gallamoth said:


> Hello fellas!
> 
> Any recommendation for better cable and eartips for the ED16?
> The stock ones make me really uncomfortable, the cable looks like would break easily and the eartips gets dirt pretty easy and slide off easily from my ear.



I have SpinFit tips on mine.  Nothing else felt comfortable for me.  I did not like the feel of the stock cable.  I am using a copper color braided cable that came with a different KZ.

The link should take you to a post I made about it a few months ago.  It includes pictures.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2542#post-14602478


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

This isn't a CCA thread but even with the KZ silver/copper mix cable the C10 are more lively but still a tad boring.


----------



## HungryPanda

A tad boring......... Made for audiophiles


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> A tad boring......... Made for audiophiles


Compared to the ZS7/AS10.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> Just got ZSN pro on the mail today and I can hear the improvement over the regular ZSN. It sounds more open/airy than the OG. Vocal is a little bit more forward and the major different is the high. I say the high is pretty similar to C10's. It is amazing how KZ can tune their "old" IEM to make it even better. Make the mid bass a little bit tighter then you get a more forward vocal as a result. Less roll of the high then you got a more open presentation. Those little/subtle things add up to make it better sounding than the OG imho.


+1 Agree, agree, agree!


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> +1 Agree, agree, agree!



I also agree. As much as I like the original ZSN, the ZSN Pro is better.

I am disappointed that KZ released the Pro so soon after the non-Pro. It has nothing to do with it being “Professional” or anything like that. It just tells me that they should really have spent a little extra time on the tuning of the original ZSN and released it when it was ready.

In other words, there was no need for the non-Pro and Pro. They should have just tuned the ZSN to perfection in the 1st place. We should have gotten 1 ZSN; the one with the tuning of the Pro.

On a related note, anyone looking for the nice copper cable that was only available with the purple ZSN...it’s available by itself on Aliexpress for the ridiculous price of $3. A steal for what it is.

Since KZ is releasing other IEMs using the ‘Para C’ plug (ie the ZSN plug), I ordered a few of the copper cables.


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> I also agree. As much as I like the original ZSN, the ZSN Pro is better.
> I am disappointed that KZ released the Pro so soon after the non-Pro. It has nothing to do with it being “Professional” or anything like that. It just tells me that they should really have spent a little extra time on the tuning of the original ZSN and released it when it was ready.


Probably the tuning R&D for their Pro series is done by Headfiers on their non-Pro series. Nothing like large sample size to improve the product.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> Probably the tuning R&D for their Pro series is done by Headfiers on their non-Pro series. Nothing like large sample size to improve the product.



Well, if the tuning changes between the ZSN vs ZSN Pro are any indication of how serious they’re addressing issues, then I’ll just wait for the Pro versions of releases.

For example, I still don’t own the original ZS10. But I know a lot of people didn’t/don’t like it. However, I’m willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the ZS10 Pro is going to be much better than the original ZS10.


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> Well, if the tuning changes between the ZSN vs ZSN Pro are any indication of how serious they’re addressing issues, then I’ll just wait for the Pro versions of releases.


Yup, AS10 Pro and AS06 Pro for me, if they make them.
@KZ, more highs for as10, and more mids for as06 please


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> Yup, AS10 Pro and AS06 Pro for me, if they make them.
> @KZ, more highs for as10, and more mids for as06 please



I don’t have either of those either (AS06 or AS10), but I’ve been tempted by the AS10 a number of times.

I wonder if KZ has an AS10 Pro planned?


----------



## purplesun

I hope so. With AS10 having the widest variety of BAs inside, it should, theoretically, have quite flexible tuning ranges. And potentially be a winner if the tuner get it right with the Pro.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Well, if the tuning changes between the ZSN vs ZSN Pro are any indication of how serious they’re addressing issues, then I’ll just wait for the Pro versions of releases.
> 
> For example, I still don’t own the original ZS10. But I know a lot of people didn’t/don’t like it. However, I’m willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the ZS10 Pro is going to be much better than the original ZS10.


I am waiting for people to chime in on the ZS10 Pro. I thought the C10 was the upgrade to the ZS10. How many times can you use the same 5 drivers in the same shell and sound different? Im interested.


----------



## voicemaster

I compared the zsn pro with og zsn and c10. It was quite surprising that the zsn pro has more forward vocal even against the c10. Bass is definitely more lively on the pro than c10. It has zs7's fun sound and c10's high extension. I think the pro has the complete package from all kz and cca iems that I own so far.


----------



## Slater (Apr 21, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I am waiting for people to chime in on the ZS10 Pro. I thought the C10 was the upgrade to the ZS10. How many times can you use the same 5 drivers in the same shell and sound different? Im interested.



I have one on the way, but unfortunately I won't be able to directly compare it to the original ZS10 to see how it has changed.

Also, I know it seems like they are all the 'same drivers', but in many ways they aren't. KZ has a zillion different dynamic drivers, with different magnetic fluxes, different diaphragms, tuning ports, etc and they all have their own individual pros and cons. Also there's the influence of crossover implementation, shell vents, shell design and materials, nozzle length and diameter, etc. And finally, KZ themselves have indicated that the 30095 BA driver has gone through a major revision at least once (if not twice) since its release many years ago.

The Ford Mustang and Ford F-150 pickup truck share the same engine. But the engines are tuned differently and are built around completely different vehicles (suspension, etc). This results in 2 very different experiences, despite both having the ‘same engine’.



voicemaster said:


> I compared the zsn pro with og zsn and c10. It was quite surprising that the zsn pro has more forward vocal even against the c10. Bass is definitely more lively on the pro than c10. It has zs7's fun sound and c10's high extension. I think the pro has the complete package from all kz and cca iems that I own so far.



Yes, I agree. It's like a merge of the ZS7 and CCA C10.

Not that I don't enjoy the ZS7 or the C10, as they are both great. However, the realization that one can get the ZSN Pro at it's current selling price is nothing short of bonkers. In fact, I'm listening to Goldfrapp on the ZSN Pro as I type this


----------



## Makahl

Guys, my other IEM went to China for repairing and the seller will cover part of my costs with a coupon. I was thinking of ZSN Pro, my 1st generation ZST already is a Frankenstein's monster after many mods so it isn't a good reference anymore, but what can I expect coming from the ZS4 as a reference point? Is there any other budget IEM that worth to consider in the $15-35 range?


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Guys, my other IEM went to China for repairing and the seller will cover part of my costs with a coupon. I was thinking of ZSN Pro, my 1st generation ZST already is a Frankenstein's monster after many mods so it isn't a good reference anymore, but what can I expect coming from the ZS4 as a reference point? Is there any other budget IEM that worth to consider in the $15-35 range?



What sound profile are you interested in? There’s lots of excellent options, KZ or otherwise.

We can definitely do better for you than the original ZST


----------



## Makahl (Apr 22, 2019)

Slater said:


> What sound profile are you interested in? There’s lots of excellent options, KZ or otherwise.
> 
> We can definitely do better for you than the original ZST



Haha, well, my main goal is having something better to use at the gym, podcasts, commute and I don't need to bother whether I lose it or break it. Nowadays I'm more into mild V-shaped sound with deep sub-bass emphasis (not exaggerated, enough to hear lowest notes and feel a moderate rumble), punch mid-bass, crisp vocals and some airy to things don't sound too intimate or closed.

ZST needs a lot of mods to sound something close to this but it still lacks rumble and airiness, but since it goes well with the KZ Bluetooth cable I can live with it for the gym.
ZS4 is really close, even though most people will say it's in bass-head territory I think the extension at sub-bass still a bit short with my gear and tips. Also, it's a bit too intimate/closed, but hey... it's $12 nothing much to complain about it at this price.


So, if ZSN Pro or any FOTM is an upgrade to it I'd like to give it a try since I got a $20 coupon.


----------



## HungryPanda

The ZS3e has enough bass for me. A very pleasant listen


----------



## antdroid

I am finding the ZSN Pro a tad bright for my preferences. There’s some treble ringing as well. I gave my ZSN away but I remember enjoying that one more than how I am enjoying these. The treble forward sound of these make things very splashy and lean and fatiguing. Definitely sounds more clear but cymbal crashes are piercing to me.


----------



## voicemaster

antdroid said:


> I am finding the ZSN Pro a tad bright for my preferences. There’s some treble ringing as well. I gave my ZSN away but I remember enjoying that one more than how I am enjoying these. The treble forward sound of these make things very splashy and lean and fatiguing. Definitely sounds more clear but cymbal crashes are piercing to me.



Doesn't sound piercing to me, but everyone has different hearing so.... For me, the cymbal crashes is the same level as in C10 and I don't have any problem with mine.


----------



## archdawg (Apr 22, 2019)

Slater said:


> I am disappointed that KZ released the Pro so soon after the non-Pro. It has nothing to do with it being “Professional” or anything like that. It just tells me that they should really have spent a little extra time on the tuning of the original ZSN and released it when it was ready.
> In other words, there was no need for the non-Pro and Pro. They should have just tuned the ZSN to perfection in the 1st place. We should have gotten 1 ZSN; the one with the tuning of the Pro.


I have no idea (does anyone?) who does the designs or the tuning for KZ, especially for the ZS6, my favorite KZ IEM so far. Again, why on earth use two HF BAs when one of them does the job just fine?!


----------



## mbwilson111

antdroid said:


> I am finding the ZSN Pro a tad bright for my preferences. There’s some treble ringing as well. I gave my ZSN away but I remember enjoying that one more than how I am enjoying these. The treble forward sound of these make things very splashy and lean and fatiguing. Definitely sounds more clear but cymbal crashes are piercing to me.



Thank you for that.  I was starting to feel bad about having two original ZSNs (one with a balanced cable).   I don't think I have ever wished for more treble in anything.  I want to continue to enjoy what I have...which is too many actually.



HungryPanda said:


> The ZS3e has enough bass for me. A very pleasant listen



Yes, I enjoy my ZS3E (black) very much.  It has more bass than many of my others but it does not seem overdone.  It does not give me a headache.  It is also very clear.  I like it enough to have put that spare balanced cable on it  No idea if it changes the sound but at least I can use it with my balanced sources.


----------



## Nimweth

ZS7 + Spiral Dots M + 8 core silver cable + this piece of music = Bliss!


----------



## Wiljen

I've been listening to the Zsn Pro for my review and ran across Edgar Winter's Frankenstein and am really impressed with the 3 dimensional nature of the stage on these.  They are a bit deceptive as until you hit something that really utilizes the available stage they seem a bit more 2 dimensional and smaller.   Now I'm going to have to break out my soundstage tests and really see how good they are.


----------



## Gallamoth (Apr 22, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have SpinFit tips on mine.  Nothing else felt comfortable for me.  I did not like the feel of the stock cable.  I am using a copper color braided cable that came with a different KZ.
> 
> The link should take you to a post I made about it a few months ago.  It includes pictures.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2542#post-14602478



Thanks, lady!

I'm thinking about this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...32833176861.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.OCMnoq

Which one of the SpinFit that you have?


----------



## mbwilson111

Gallamoth said:


> Thanks, lady!
> 
> It's this one, right?
> 
> ...



Yes, that cable will fit.  Mine has that angled connector but the size is the same... I think that combination of angle and size might be unique to the ZSA but that listing says it fits the ZSA.

I wish I knew what Spinfit that one is.  We found it in the tip stash and think it may have been and unused one from my husbands Duno.  Ones that I have bought and used on other iems are white not grey.. I think C100.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I'm sorry to burst your bubbles but the KZ ED16 is "better" than the CCA C10. Better meaning... MORE FUN = Repeat Listens.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

purplesun said:


> Yup, AS10 Pro and AS06 Pro for me, if they make them. @KZ, more highs for as10, and more mids for as06 please


Why buy? What about the AS16?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> For example, I still don’t own the original ZS10. But I know a lot of people didn’t/don’t like it. However, I’m willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the ZS10 Pro is going to be much better than the original ZS10.


I doubt it'll sound good. The ZS10 is a blow out. Even the ATR sounds better than it. I even bought the ZS10 after everyone was saying how bad it was.  It's true. It's bad.


----------



## Mybutthurts (Apr 23, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I doubt it'll sound good. The ZS10 is a blow out. Even the ATR sounds better than it. I even bought the ZS10 after everyone was saying how bad it was.  It's true. It's bad.



My ZS10 is fine. a little bassy, vocals are not as forward as I like but it's a fine for me. Better with a different cable and with a amp (fiio A3).
Still doesn't beat my AS10 which I love, and to my ears better than CCA C10, which excel on some tracks but thin on others.
Had a zsn for a while. But sold to a mate who was blown away with it. but, it that was good too... wished I'd kept it. But you can only use one set of 'phones at a time.

Proof everyone has different ears and tastes I think.


----------



## purplesun

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why buy? What about the AS16?


I quite like the sounds of both KZ's recent ba-only products; they cover my music listening range quite nicely. The pros (if it does happen) might just take it a step further. If they do make the pros, for around $40-$50, it would certainly tick most of my check boxes. But I'll probably skip AS16, and go for CCA C20. That's in keeping with my headfier's false sense of economy!


----------



## loomisjohnson

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm sorry to burst your bubbles but the KZ ED16 is "better" than the CCA C10. Better meaning... MORE FUN = Repeat Listens.


coincidentally, i pulled out the ed16 yesterday to walk the hounds and was reminded how good they are--less ambitious than the more expensive hybrids but also more coherent


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm sorry to burst your bubbles but the KZ ED16 is "better" than the CCA C10. Better meaning... MORE FUN = Repeat Listens.



I remember you saying that you did not like the ED16.  You keep changing your mind about so many models. One day you love them.  Another day you don't.  I am thinking that your music and/or your mood play a part as well as other factors.

Not sure there are any Better or Worse with most of these.  Just different... and we all have different tastes.


----------



## Mybutthurts (Apr 23, 2019)

B*gger it...

I've only gone and ordered the ZS10 Pro.

It only cost me £31.15 with a KZ store coupon on Ali

Well it looks like I'll eat again properly sometime at the end of May.


----------



## akiller

I was just about to pull the trigger on the ZS7 then spotted the ZS10 Pros and got intrigued. I'm guessing no one's got hold of one yet as I can't find any reviews anywhere.

Are the KZ's always "on offer" on AliExpress? E.g., if I wait a week or two until reviews come out (I'm looking at you, @Mybutthurts ) will they be back on offer again?


----------



## mbwilson111

Mybutthurts said:


> Bigger it...
> 
> I've only gone and ordered the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> ...



Eating is overrated.  Can't do it with IEMs in the ears.

Can drink tea though..putting the kettle on...


----------



## mbwilson111

akiller said:


> I was just about to pull the trigger on the ZS7 then spotted the ZS10 Pros and got intrigued. I'm guessing no one's got hold of one yet as I can't find any reviews anywhere.
> 
> Are the KZ's always "on offer" on AliExpress? E.g., if I wait a week or two until reviews come out (I'm looking at you, @Mybutthurts ) will they be back on offer again?



Offers seem to be never ending.  They do want to sell stuff.


----------



## Gallamoth

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, that cable will fit.  Mine has that angled connector but the size is the same... I think that combination of angle and size might be unique to the ZSA but that listing says it fits the ZSA.
> 
> I wish I knew what Spinfit that one is.  We found it in the tip stash and think it may have been and unused one from my husbands Duno.  Ones that I have bought and used on other iems are white not grey.. I think C100.



Don't worry, a guy on YouTube confirmed that the CP100 would be perfect for the ED16.
Later i'm going to purchase the cable and the tips, thanks for you help.


----------



## mbwilson111

Gallamoth said:


> Don't worry, a guy on YouTube confirmed that the CP100 would be perfect for the ED16.
> Later i'm going to purchase the cable and the tips, thanks for you help.



I hope the tips work for you.  The reason I use them on certain iems is so I can get a deeper fit.  The small front part goes in further. Plus they are comfortable for me.  They are always my last resort though because they are more expensive than other tips that I have on hand.


----------



## nxnje (Apr 23, 2019)

My take on the KZ AS06, if you wanna read!

https://yourstingyfriend.altervista.org/?cat=14


----------



## KimChee

Just got the KZ Zs7...hate that it only came in blue...so swapped the faceplate with my ZS6...


----------



## Slater

Enjoying the ZSN Pro today


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 24, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I remember you saying that you did not like the ED16.  You keep changing your mind about so many models. One day you love them.  Another day you don't.


I think my lack of interest is related to earphone burn in and my opamp on my Zishan Z1. My current one is AD797BR and it sounds great with the ED16.

The music doesn't have the "special buzz" of higher end earphones with the ED16 but the music sounds crisp, clear, enjoyable and e
Sounds like how it should with no coloring.

The ED16 made my Ramones album made 30+ years ago "sound as good" as the day it was recorded.

How does the ED16 sound so natural? I want to know.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> Everything I have ordered from aliexpress has arrived between 6 days and 6 weeks.  2-3 weeks being most common.


Ditto. The cable and iem case I ordered at the end of last month, only took one and a half weeks to arrive to me in Canada. Will definitely buy more stuff from Ali...probably the ZS 10 PRO next week.


----------



## jibberish

So my impression of the ZS3E after 3 days is that...it's very similar to the ZS4, what a shock!  Comparing them back to back, I think the removal of the BA driver makes the ZS3E's vocals sound a bit more natural, at the expense of giving up some detail retrieval and airiness in the treble.  The ZS3E's tuning effectively pushes the bass forward, and it's a really capable driver in that regard. So these would be a good for someone looking for a budget basshead IEM that isn't quite as V-shaped when it comes to treble.

I also had incorrectly assumed from the pictures that the ZS3E came with a silver cable that was the equivalent to the silver upgrade cable I got for my ZSN, but that's not the case.  The one that came with the ZS3E is noticeably thinner and has the dreaded KZ memory wires.  

Ultimately I think I prefer the ZS4, but they're fairly similar, so if you have one, probably not much use in getting the other. I don't particularly regret the $12 I spent on them, but, I also am not expecting them to spend a whole lot of time in my ears, as I probably will choose the ZS4 when I want to use one of the two for their noise blocking ability.  I'll keep burning them in and using them for a while though to see if my opinion changes.


----------



## carltonh

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I doubt it'll sound good. The ZS10 is a blow out. Even the ATR sounds better than it. I even bought the ZS10 after everyone was saying how bad it was.  It's true. It's bad.



I have at least 300 IEMs, from $5 to $150, and the ZS10 is still the best for me, given that the large shape plus the right (non-included) tips. It is still better than my Sennheiser HD 58X, Momentum Over Ears, or anything else I've bought. But I understand your point if it doesn't fit your ears in a deep manner to partly block the ports. I'm optimistic for the ZS10 Pro, as the ZSN/CCA C10 shape is so awesome that it works great with almost any tip or ear shape.

I think the ZSN Pro a minor improvement on ZSN, to agree with those who say it is a true but trivial upgrade. I like the C10 better than both, but not to the ZS10 with a great fit. And everything I've mentioned better than the AS10.


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> Enjoying the ZSN Pro today



Not a ZSN Pro Ultra Edition w/ Genuine Carbon Fiber Faceplates but it seems cool too.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Bad Guy, Good Reviews on Youtube likes the ZS10 Pro!!! He ain't such a bad guy after all. Before that... he only liked the AS10. ♡


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

carltonh said:


> I have at least 300 IEMs, from $5 to $150, and the ZS10 is still the best for me, given that the large shape plus the right (non-included) tips. It is still better than my Sennheiser HD 58X, Momentum Over Ears, or anything else I've bought.


From here on out I trust your opinions, Carltonh. 300 earphones? Wow. Just wow. It's too bad they sent me a defective ZS10. I will probably buy the Pro version because of your opinion on the earlier version.


----------



## Crandall

KimChee said:


> Just got the KZ Zs7...hate that it only came in blue...so swapped the faceplate with my ZS6...


Any noticeable change in sound after putting on the ZS6 plates? Also wondering if it's a perfectly flush fit as it looks like they are both the exact same shape and material. I also wish it came in other colors.


----------



## phower (Apr 24, 2019)

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zsn

Fresh off the grill review of the KZ ZSN.

Distortion(THD) is higher at 90dB than at 100 dB SPL which is disappointing. At lower volumes, the THD is going to be higher.


----------



## mbwilson111

phower said:


> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zsn
> 
> Fresh off the grill review of the KZ ZSN.
> 
> Distortion(THD) is higher at 90dB than at 100 dB SPL which is disappointing. At lower volumes, the THD is going to be higher.



I listen at lower volume.  I have not noticed distortion.


----------



## KimChee

I didn’t notice any sound difference… Everything sounds the same the face plate is pretty much identical. That’s a flush fit,  I think I read somewhere the vent was different, but I didn’t notice. I also didn’t look very closely.




Crandall said:


> Any noticeable change in sound after putting on the ZS6 plates? Also wondering if it's a perfectly flush fit as it looks like they are both the exact same shape and material. I also wish it came in other colors.


----------



## nraymond

Am I correct that the ZS10 Pro fits ZSN/ZSN Pro type cables, but not ZS10 cables?


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> Am I correct that the ZS10 Pro fits ZSN/ZSN Pro type cables, but not ZS10 cables?



Correct


----------



## KimChee

Damn this site! Lol. I just saw the KZ ZS10 Pro...I don’t really like the metal faceplate but it looks interesting...I’m hopeful, I didn’t find the ZS6 to pass the sound quality of my reshelled UE TF10, but pretty close.


----------



## KimChee

Did anyone see this?  So it will be more of s reference sound than a fun sound?  Who knows with the translation...


----------



## Superluc (Apr 24, 2019)

It's all advertising nonsense, don't bother.

Also, the second one is not about the ZS10 Pro, as it talk about a 2+2 configuration, while the ZS10 is a 1+4


----------



## moisespr123

I'm still waiting for them (KZ ZS10 Pro) . They have been dispatched to overseas according to the tracking. One or 2 more weeks go to. Ordered the blue version, since the ZS7 are also blue.


----------



## nraymond

KimChee said:


> Did anyone see this?  So it will be more of s reference sound than a fun sound?  Who knows with the translation...



I’m waiting for reviews/translations. The blue with mic version is $47 with Prime shipping after coupon on Amazon (in stock now). Someone want to bite?


----------



## KimChee

I’m trying to convince myself not to buy it too lol....



Superluc said:


> It's all advertising nonsense, don't bother.
> 
> Also, the second one is not about the ZS10 Pro, as it talk about a 2+2 configuration, while the ZS10 is a 1+4


----------



## randomnin (Apr 24, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Eating is overrated.  Can't do it with IEMs in the ears.
> 
> Can drink tea though..putting the kettle on...


ZS4 and triple\double flanges - and I'm munching away to my jams every day (some sort of pun intended, I don't know). ZS4 is indeed a blessing in helping me tide over until I am able to graduate to >100$ IEM class.



phower said:


> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/kz/zsn
> 
> Fresh off the grill review of the KZ ZSN.
> 
> Distortion(THD) is higher at 90dB than at 100 dB SPL which is disappointing. At lower volumes, the THD is going to be higher.


Rtings.com seems to be the only source of new THD measurements, and for that they deserve a lot of kudos, but their THD score and the derived distortion score seems to overemphasize what the graph shows. In this case, it's mostly below 1%, except for ~6% at 700Hz. I wonder if it's even audible.
I dislike much more the fact that it has the usual 5-8kHz valley a lot of budget Chi-Fi have (ZS10 doesn't have it, but because it's a rocky zigzag mess after 4kHz; AS10 doesn't have it, but has a sizable treble roll-off). By the way, the ZS10 Pro's official promo graph shows the situation somewhat remedied and smooth (it still annoyingly depicts a drop off after 4kHz, but the rebound peak seems smaller afterwards; anyhow it looks more like your average KZ graph (except for lower midbass and a lower aforementioned rebound peak) than the more unusual ones of ZS10 and AS10), but KZ has published deceptive graphs before.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> From here on out I trust your opinions, Carltonh. 300 earphones? Wow. Just wow. It's too bad they sent me a defective ZS10. I will probably buy the Pro version because of your opinion on the earlier version.


I wouldn't put that much importance on the guys opinion. Though Rtings.com measurements show ZS10 to have a very low THD, below 1% across the board - a very good result that makers usually brag about in spec sheets, and great channel balance, too, I would still put more emphasis on the fact they fit him very well. As I've written previously, I can't tell much of a sound quality difference between critically acclaimed budget Chi-Fi after equalising to identical signatures, so I've decided that in this price range comfort is paramount. What unicorns graze the beyond budget pastures I do not know, though.



A question to AS10 owners - how rolled off the upper treble is? And can't it be fixed by equalising? I mean, it's a multi-BA IEM with dedicated high freq drivers that have been shown to be capable of reproducing upper treble in other models. The crossover can't have restricted it that much now can it?


----------



## KimChee

nraymond said:


> I’m waiting for reviews/translations. The blue with mic version is $47 with Prime shipping after coupon on Amazon (in stock now). Someone want to bite?


I’m in it...


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> I’m waiting for reviews/translations. The blue with mic version is $47 with Prime shipping after coupon on Amazon (in stock now). Someone want to bite?



I have one on the way.

Unfortunately I don’t have an original ZS10 to compare to the Pro. But as bad as I’ve heard the ZS10 to be, I have a feeling anything is an improvement.


----------



## KimChee

I flipped around and found the black one for $58..also 2 day prime shipping so hopefully I get it soon...



nraymond said:


> I’m waiting for reviews/translations. The blue with mic version is $47 with Prime shipping after coupon on Amazon (in stock now). Someone want to bite?


----------



## Superluc

randomnin said:


> in this price range comfort is paramount


And not only in the budget segment. 

I may be too picky about it, but one of the things that still save my pocket is that I'm scared as hell to buy pricier headphones and don't like how they fit.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> But as bad as I’ve heard the ZS10 to be



Neither my husband @HungryPanda nor myself find our ZS10s bad.  In fact I ordered mine after hearing his.


----------



## mbwilson111

randomnin said:


> ZS4 and triple\double flanges - and I'm munching away to my jams every day (some sort of pun intended, I don't know).



You don't hear yourself chewing?


----------



## Slater

Superluc said:


> And not only in the budget segment.
> 
> I may be too picky about it, but one of the things that still save my pocket is that I'm scared as hell to buy pricier headphones and don't like how they fit.



You could always get a CIEM. That’s my plan.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Neither my husband @HungryPanda nor myself find our ZS10s bad.  In fact I ordered mine after hearing his.



I had the chance recently to get a pair for $24. I was very close to ordering it, but I resisted the temptation like a good boy


----------



## randomnin

mbwilson111 said:


> You don't hear yourself chewing?


I do, but the motion doesn't completely shut the ear tips, so I still hear the sound rather well (especially unproblematic if I'm listening to voice not music). My problem before ZS4+multi flange was that multi flange tips in combination with other IEMs either hurt my ear canals or that I suffered the indignity of them just falling out while chewing.


----------



## KimChee

Back in the day, I got my TF10 universal reshelled to a custom and haven’t looked back since...whenever I do anything active the comfort is amazing and it stays in place well if you get a good mold done...



Slater said:


> You could always get a CIEM. That’s my plan.


----------



## courierdriver

Superluc said:


> And not only in the budget segment.
> 
> I may be too picky about it, but one of the things that still save my pocket is that I'm scared as hell to buy pricier headphones and don't like how they fit.


Yeah, I'm the same. Over the past several months, I've looked at pics of iems here on headfi, and on online stores. I have discounted many (perhaps wrongfully, because I didn't have an actual physical specimen to try out in my ears) based on perceived size and also the shape. I have small ears and I worry that some of these big, thick shelled models won't fit or will fall out, no matter what kinds of tips I use. Also, I have deep canals so I like a good long nozzle with an angle.  Hate the thought of spending good money on something, waiting for delivery, only to find that its uncomfortable, falls out of my ears and then have to go thru the trouble and expense to send it back.


----------



## carltonh

LaughMoreDaily said:


> From here on out I trust your opinions, Carltonh. 300 earphones? Wow. Just wow. It's too bad they sent me a defective ZS10. I will probably buy the Pro version because of your opinion on the earlier version.



I should probably not type while drinking more than thinking. 300 counts duplicates of the same version given or gifted to my kids and friends, and so shouldn't have used that number.I know I've bought at least 40 KZs, but only 15-20 unique ones. I still have about 150 unique IEMs and headphones, from the last decade of collecting. I've just ordered the ZS10 Pro and should have it on Friday.


----------



## phower

randomnin said:


> ZS4 and triple\double flanges - and I'm munching away to my jams every day (some sort of pun intended, I don't know). ZS4 is indeed a blessing in helping me tide over until I am able to graduate to >100$ IEM class.
> 
> 
> Rtings.com seems to be the only source of new THD measurements, and for that they deserve a lot of kudos, but their THD score and the derived distortion score seems to overemphasize what the graph shows. In this case, it's mostly below 1%, except for ~6% at 700Hz. I wonder if it's even audible.
> ...


There are several studies on the audibility of THD. We seem to tolerate THD upto 10% in the sub-bass region. For midrange & treble, THD starts getting annoying at 1% level. Again, this is program dependant.

What concerns me is that THD decreases as volume level goes up. Some drivers behave like that while for the vast majority of drivers, THD is proportional to volume level. So for the ZSN, THD might be even higher at lower volume levels like 70 or 80 dB SPL.

I guess KZ doesn't bother with measurements. Like chinese takeout, mix & match DD, BA drivers, and sell it. There are enough suckers to buy it.


----------



## pbui44

phower said:


> There are several studies on the audibility of THD. We seem to tolerate THD upto 10% in the sub-bass region. For midrange & treble, THD starts getting annoying at 1% level. Again, this is program dependant.
> 
> What concerns me is that THD decreases as volume level goes up. Some drivers behave like that while for the vast majority of drivers, THD is proportional to volume level. So for the ZSN, THD might be even higher at lower volume levels like 70 or 80 dB SPL.
> 
> I guess KZ doesn't bother with measurements. Like chinese takeout, mix & match DD, BA drivers, and sell it. There are enough suckers to buy it.



Yup, we still keep buying it!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I was listening to the purple ZSN today and I can't believe people were going gah-gah over it in the past. It's not that good. Or maybe it needs a certain DAC/DAP to sound good.

Ps: Early adopter syndrome is a failure.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

phower said:


> So for the ZSN, THD might be even higher at lower volume levels like 70 or 80 dB SPL.
> 
> I guess KZ doesn't bother with measurements. Like chinese takeout, mix & match DD, BA drivers, and sell it. There are enough suckers to buy it.


Audio Suckers = They're called HeadFiers.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> I have one on the way.
> 
> Unfortunately I don’t have an original ZS10 to compare to the Pro. But as bad as I’ve heard the ZS10 to be, I have a feeling anything is an improvement.


The only thing not improved with the ZS10 vs ZS10 Pro is the price. My ZS10 were $22. 

I will keep burning them in to see if they get better but they just sound weird.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> Will definitely buy more stuff from Ali...probably the ZS10 PRO next week.


Then you can compare it to the Kanas Pro.


----------



## archdawg (Apr 25, 2019)

phower said:


> I guess KZ doesn't bother with measurements.


I guess they're not alone



> Like chinese takeout, mix & match DD, BA drivers, and sell it. There are enough suckers to buy it.


More often than not good enough is just that - good enough for most suckers, including myself. I can still enjoy a humble but decent chinese meal without missing anything else ... same with earphones and some other stuff.


----------



## duyanh43

Anyone do a quick review on ZS10 Pro. Specification is so good


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I was listening to the purple ZSN today and I can't believe people were going gah-gah over it in the past. It's not that good. Or maybe it needs a certain DAC/DAP to sound good.



Tips make the biggest difference on ZSN. The stock tips do not do it justice at all.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Then you can compare it to the Kanas Pro.


I will do that, provided that I actually decide to get the ZS10 PRO. I'm still on the fence and would like to at least see a full review from HBB with graphs before I make a final decision. I'd like to see a few reviews here in this forum too, before I take the plunge. The fact that these look so big to me compared to my KanasPro makes me leery...I just dont wanna be stuck with something that doesn't fit. CCA C16 is another option, so is TFZ King Exclusive. Hopefully I'll get things figured out by next week.


----------



## legacy404 (Apr 25, 2019)

I picked up the ZS7 after seeing positive reviews, got it off ebay from a US seller for around $50.  Bass and sub-bass are great, definitely hits you and has crazy extension.  

I felt that it tended to overpower mids/highs a bit, as they sounded muted in comparison.  Coming from ADV S2000, which is a bright IEM, left me a little unimpressed.  I just switched to comply foam tips and it seems to have enhanced clarity overall - bass is toned down and less boomy, mids/treble pop now.  This is how it should have sounded out of the box!


----------



## moisespr123

Seems there's a new KZ Bluetooth cable with AptX HD coming: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008262681.html


----------



## shockdoc

moisespr123 said:


> Seems there's a new KZ Bluetooth cable with AptX HD coming: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008262681.html



Interesting. Here's hoping it's better than their previous BT offereings.


----------



## Slater

moisespr123 said:


> Seems there's a new KZ Bluetooth cable with AptX HD coming: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008262681.html





shockdoc said:


> Interesting. Here's hoping it's better than their previous BT offereings.



It looks great on paper.

If they have all of the connectivity issues of their previous Bluetooth cables figured out, I’ll get one.

It’s unfortunate they only offer it in Para B and Para C. I guess that tells us that Para A is done in their eyes.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

shockdoc said:


> Interesting. Here's hoping it's better than their previous BT offereings.


Ditto. If it turns out to work well, I would be overjoyed if they eventually released an MMCX variant. I've never bought a KZ BT cable because of the feedback all the previous models received.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Slater said:


> It looks great on paper.
> 
> If they have all of the connectivity issues of their previous Bluetooth cables figured out, I’ll get one.
> 
> It’s unfortunate they only offer it in Para B and Para C. I guess that tells us that Para A is done in their eyes.



After the recent release of the ZS7 which seems to be generally regarded as quite nice here, I hope not...


----------



## eclein

Broke out my KZ ZS5 v1s today and I’m thoroughly enjoying them this afternoon. My first KZs and still a fav with BA10s.
Awesome piece right out of the blocks for KZ.


----------



## moisespr123

I'd probably get it but first I have to see if the original cable fits because I use 0.78mm variants. I think it will, as previously the 0.75mm cable fitted.


----------



## nicksson (Apr 25, 2019)

Today has arrived my KZ ZS10 Pro.
After more than 4 hours of continous listening, with no problems with the comfort or the fit, I can tell that I'm pleased with them. The dynamic driver of ZSN Pro, witch is already a very good driver, makes a very-very good combination wtih the 4 BA. The sound is very detailed and the stage feels suprisely large. In this price range, the ZS10 Pro is a monster beast, I like them very much. Although I was a little bit sceptical when I ordered them, they are from now my most favorite IEM...


----------



## eclein

I’m jumping....


----------



## shockdoc

eclein said:


> I’m jumping....



You sound like ME...when the ZSN hype-train started chugging it's way thru the forums. TOOT TOOT! ;-P


----------



## BadReligionPunk

nicksson said:


> Today has arrived my KZ ZS10 Pro.
> After more than 4 hours of continous listening, with no problems with the comfort or the fit, I can tell that I'm pleased with them. The dynamic driver of ZSN Pro, witch is already a very good driver, makes a very-very good combination wtih the 4 BA. The sound is very detailed and the stage feels suprisely large. In this price range, the ZS10 Pro is a monster beast, I like them very much. Although I was a little bit sceptical when I ordered them, they are from now my most favorite IEM...


Choo Choo! First stop..


----------



## spencerberus (Apr 25, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> The TRN BT20 came in last Friday but couldn' t get the left/ right to pair up correctly as there was no instruction provided in the packaging.
> Very thankful to Jim of NiceHCK for stepping and getting the instructions (in chinese) and sending it to me over the weekend. Kudos to him.
> 
> After pairing up, it was pretty straightforward every other time. Pairing with handphone was practically instant.



Thanks for the review. I just got a set of these but can't seem to get them to pair with each other either. Any chance you can share the instructions?

EDIT: I finally found the instructions you already posted. It doesn't look like I can delete my post, so best I think I can do is add a link to the post with instructions: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2571#post-14622693


----------



## khighly (Apr 25, 2019)

moisespr123 said:


> Seems there's a new KZ Bluetooth cable with AptX HD coming: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008262681.html


Wow, hopefully it has a resonant antenna this time. The ZSN one I got sounds fine and lasts plenty long, but it skips if I put it in my back pocket. My ass is not made of lead either. I'll probably buy that soon with the ZS10 Pro.

Also, looks like someone saw my suggestion (probably not) to stop making the cable so long and make it more like the Mee Audio AptX cable.

Actually saying they have a proper ceramic antenna this time is promising.


----------



## khighly

Also wow, did some huge sales tax law just go into place? 10% on AliExpress!


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Wow, hopefully it has a resonant antenna this time. The ZSN one I got sounds fine and lasts plenty long, but it skips if I put it in my back pocket. My ass is not made of lead either. I'll probably buy that soon with the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> Also, looks like someone saw my suggestion (probably not) to stop making the cable so long and make it more like the Mee Audio AptX cable.
> 
> Actually saying they have a proper ceramic antenna this time is promising.



The later revision of the previous Bluetooth cables had a ceramic antenna too, and had connection problems.

So even with ceramic antennas they still have to optimize the engineering of everything else. For example, to make sure there’s adequate shielding from EMI, to keep the antenna away from components that would degrade its signal, etc.

Let’s hope KZ can pull it off with this one


----------



## KimChee (Apr 26, 2019)

I’m burning in the KZ ZS7 only about 50 hrs on it and going to do another 50-100...the dynamic driver so far has good sub bass rumble, nice texture, deep extension.  The highs are detailed, bright have good air, extension seems a bit rolled off.  The timbre is the treble sounds better than the ZS6 the treble on the 6 can sound slightly artificial at times.


The soundstage is wide and spacious, I used tips that were too big and it changed the soundstage greatly.  I’m also getting more soundstage depth, greater then the ZS6.  Resolution and imaging is better than with my ZS6, mids are a little clearer though it’s because no mid bass bleed.  There is a slight upper mid emphasis.  Soundstage is more spacious than ZS6 to my ears. Maybe this will change once I get a few more hours on it.  I played this through my AK380 and Lotoo Paw Gold...it is a clear upgrade to the ZS6.

I also have the ZS10 Pro coming tomorrow so can’t wait to start burning it in.


Edit:  I used smaller tips and got deeper insertion which completely changed the soundstage.


----------



## Veyska

Part of me's tempted to buy the new cable, but the other part of me's going "You need to actually give those TRN BT20s another chance, see if you manage to ease the compression because even just a bit would probably be good enough (even though being able to take one out of the ear and not need to hold onto it would be nice), and also if you buy any new CCA/KZ models they'll probably have the C-style ends not B so really it would make more sense to get that instead because even if the C10 is better the ZSN's still pretty dang good"...  >->


----------



## moisespr123 (Apr 25, 2019)

Veyska said:


> Part of me's tempted to buy the new cable, but the other part of me's going "You need to actually give those TRN BT20s another chance, see if you manage to ease the compression because even just a bit would probably be good enough (even though being able to take one out of the ear and not need to hold onto it would be nice), and also if you buy any new CCA/KZ models they'll probably have the C-style ends not B so really it would make more sense to get that instead because even if the C10 is better the ZSN's still pretty dang good"...  >->



The TRN BT20 are the adapters I'm currently using, and they have a good sound. I don't have any aptX HD adapters yet, altough I have the Hiby W5 coming as soon as they start shipping it, but that's just a BT to 3.5mm adapter. Also, the price of this cable is nice. It doesn't mention a use of a discrete DAC, so probably I'm guessing the cable will have noise floor problems.

I just tested the original KZ ZS7 cable and they still attach to my ZS7 even when I have the TRN BT20 0.78mm version. May just order this adapter since it will take weeks to come.

EDIT: Ordered the B version


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> Part of me's tempted to buy the new cable, but the other part of me's going "You need to actually give those TRN BT20s another chance, see if you manage to ease the compression because even just a bit would probably be good enough (even though being able to take one out of the ear and not need to hold onto it would be nice), and also if you buy any new CCA/KZ models they'll probably have the C-style ends not B so really it would make more sense to get that instead because even if the C10 is better the ZSN's still pretty dang good"...  >->



So far none of the CCAs I’ve seen use the C end. At this point it’s just ZSN, ZSN Pro, and ZS10 Pro. And from marketing info posted by KZ, it will also be the AS16.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> So far none of the CCAs I’ve seen use the C end. At this point it’s just ZSN, ZSN Pro, and ZS10 Pro. And from marketing info posted by KZ, it will also be the AS16.


I could be mistaken but from the pictures it looks like the CA4 uses the new C-style end.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Veyska said:


> I could be mistaken but from the pictures it looks like the CA4 uses the new C-style end.


CCA CA4 uses C-style: https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aliexpress.com/item/32998970465.html


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> I could be mistaken but from the pictures it looks like the CA4 uses the new C-style end.



Ah, good eye. I missed that.

Thanks for correcting me!


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like a new CCA in the C16 / AS10 body but with Type "C" connectors. Supposed to be out early May and supposed to be above the C16 but it only says 5 BA so no idea lol.


----------



## Wiljen

ZSN pro review is up on my blog   this one was a good bit of work with the compare to ZSN.


----------



## KimChee

Wiljen said:


> ZSN pro review is up on my blog   this one was a good bit of work with the compare to ZSN.



What’s the iem with the black shell?


----------



## Veyska

Veyska said:


> Part of me's tempted to buy the new cable, but the other part of me's going "You need to actually give those TRN BT20s another chance, see if you manage to ease the compression because even just a bit would probably be good enough (even though being able to take one out of the ear and not need to hold onto it would be nice), and also if you buy any new CCA/KZ models they'll probably have the C-style ends not B so really it would make more sense to get that instead because even if the C10 is better the ZSN's still pretty dang good"...  >->


Super short walk using the BT20s and I'm cautiously optimistic that ever-so-slightly stretching the ear loops out is working.  Need to find something else to prop them open with though, eventually I'm going to want to use this unopened roll of tape...  Still decidedly snug but not pinchy, and it's occurred to me some degree of snug is actually a good thing because it seems to stop the Spinfit tips from getting all tickly when I walk.  <-<  Need to do a longer walk though because they didn't always feel pinchy before either, but alas I suspect I won't have a good excuse to experiment with the new cable and then use that as an excuse for...  *cough*  Probably for the best, I'm quite satisfied with the IEMs I've got and most of my listening time is on headphones anyhow and while I am happy to have found out that IEMs don't not-work for me like earbuds I still very much prefer headphones for comfort/sound anyhow.

(Maybe if the newest cable's awesome and I catch it on sale or something?)


----------



## B9Scrambler

KimChee said:


> What’s the iem with the black shell?



Left to right: ZST, ZSN, ZSN Pro


----------



## Wiljen

KimChee said:


> What’s the iem with the black shell?



3 generations of KZ - ZST, ZSN, and ZSN Pro
ZST is the carbon fiber look
ZSN is the darker gray metal face
ZSN pro is the lighter metal face


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> 3 generations of KZ - ZST, ZSN, and ZSN Pro
> ZST is the carbon fiber look
> ZSN is the darker gray metal face
> ZSN pro is the lighter metal face



You just need a CCA C10 and CA4 in the photo to compete the quintuplet siblings!


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> You just need a CCA C10 and CA4 in the photo to compete the quintuplet siblings!



posted my c10 notes the other day along with C16 -  my CA4 is still somewhere in the mailroom.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> posted my c10 notes the other day along with C16 -  my CA4 is still somewhere in the mailroom.



Well when you round them all up, get them all in a lineup because that would be a cool shot


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> You just need a CCA C10 and CA4 in the photo to compete the quintuplet siblings!



You forgot the ZS10 Pro!


----------



## Wiljen

B9Scrambler said:


> You forgot the ZS10 Pro!



That one hasnt arrived either. Ordered one the day it was released but slow boat I guess.  Did get the Smabat and the Topaz today.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> You forgot the ZS10 Pro!



I didn’t know the ZS10 Pro shared the ZST shell??


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> I didn’t know the ZS10 Pro shared the ZST shell??



I'll post some pics tomorrow...maybe, lol.


----------



## 1clearhead

TheVortex said:


> Looks like a new CCA in the C16 / AS10 body but with Type "C" connectors. Supposed to be out early May and supposed to be above the C16 but it only says 5 BA so no idea lol.


Yea, it seems to me like it's 5 BA per side? I would like to check them out now, but infortunately I'll be moving next week and won't be able to do another review until probably a month later after settling in.
...I really hate moving!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Just passing this on...

Just on Amazon checking out some stuff. Noticed that the KZ ZS10 Pro was $59.99. However if you choose Blue for color and then select with mic, it becomes $49.99 Prime shipped. Click on the $3 off in cart coupon and you could have a new ZS10 Pro for $46.99 Prime shipped. No waiting. Says there is 12 left. Very difficult for me to not order but so far am doing great.


----------



## eclein (Apr 25, 2019)

I hope this is a “BA10 pro” , its the same driver configuration....fingers crossed here!


Where do you guys find this information......??


----------



## KimChee

I just ordered yesterday through prime




BadReligionPunk said:


> Just passing this on...
> 
> Just on Amazon checking out some stuff. Noticed that the KZ ZS10 Pro was $59.99. However if you choose Blue for color and then select with mic, it becomes $49.99 Prime shipped. Click on the $3 off in cart coupon and you could have a new ZS10 Pro for $46.99 Prime shipped. No waiting. Says there is 12 left. Very difficult for me to not order but so far am doing great.


----------



## eclein

I’ll be using prime when my check shows........the new TRN X6 and now this new CCA, I may need to unretire (not happening)!


----------



## Caipirina (Apr 26, 2019)

Feeling nostalgic these days and re-discovering my KZs ... trigger was getting the BT20 in .75mm (for my Rose Masya earbuds !) and finding out just how many of my KZs have that plug (ZS3, ZST, ZSR, ZS5, oh and also TRN V20) and then I ended up ordering a bunch more ... damn you KZ / AliExpress!

Today I went all the way back and got out the ATE, probably my first trip down the rabbit hole .. errrr, I mean Chi-Fi .... back then (anyone else got them in that shield shaped plastic box?) I did not really appreciate them ... but now, with the right player and the right music ... amazeballs still!

Looking forward to my next haul : ZS4, ZSN, AS10  (and for good measure the TRN V80)  ... and still on my wish list the ZS10 Pro and the BT 10 (Ironman!) ...


----------



## Caipirina

moisespr123 said:


> Seems there's a new KZ Bluetooth cable with AptX HD coming: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33008262681.html



Anyone else notice the mention of an AS16 for the C pin type? Is there a 3DD+5BA hybrid in the works???


----------



## voicemaster




----------



## voicemaster

Speaking of bluetooth module, I find TRN bt3 to be the most reliable and easy to use from all other bluetooth models that I have used so far. I have kz bluetooth cavle with aptX, it sounds good, but you have to wear it near the source otherwise the connection will intermittently cut on and off. It is ideal for desk application, horrible for portable. Trn bt20, sounds good, but build quality is not as good as bt3 as I have the left button stuck whenever I plugged in to charge. Also, the pinching  mechanism might not ideal for iem like zs7 or zs6, as it will pinch the sharp edge of the iem to your ear lobe.


----------



## voicemaster

Huawei mate 20x with trn bt3 and kz zsn pro.


----------



## Deveraux

Got the ZS7 today and uhm.... I'm disappointed. Tried with the silver gold trn cable too. 

Right now my ZS5 v1 sounds better. Both sounds similar with the ZS5 being more clearer. I don't know if burning in will improve it. But even if it does, it's more like a side grade, not an upgrade. I got it thinking it'd have a wider imaging than the ZS5 and I'm really sad that it sounds maybe slightly even more on the face than the ZS5 :/

I don't know why there is so much of hype when a new kz is launched, I seriously can't understand. Time to move on from kz I believe.


----------



## Mybutthurts (Apr 26, 2019)

AS16.

10,000 Yuan...

https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1121679695794204672?s=19


----------



## BCool

8 BAs per side!? I like the AS10 but even I'm starting to think this driver count is starting to go over the top


----------



## Caipirina

Mybutthurts said:


> AS16.
> 
> 10,000 Yuan...
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1121679695794204672?s=19



What uncanny timing  

But 1500USD? I think they are trying to say 'this configuration SHOULD cost 1500USD, but we are KZ, we can do that for 99$'  

Here once more for those of use who don't like clicking twitter links


----------



## Caipirina

BCool said:


> 8 BAs per side!? I like the AS10 but even I'm starting to think this driver count is starting to go over the top



Let's see ... I have heard one or two reviewers preferring the AS06 over the AS10, because the 10s have become too convoluted ... in the end, the ears (and the wallet) will decide  ...  and the constant pressure of owning each new KZ


----------



## nxnje

BCool said:


> 8 BAs per side!? I like the AS10 but even I'm starting to think this driver count is starting to go over the top



I completely agree.
There isn't just a personal preferences fact now, the problem is the market is boosting IEMs with more drivers while many of em are not accurately tuned, many of them which still feature sibilance, very sharp highs, unnatural mids and so on.
They should maybe think more on how they tune the drivers and the quality of their drivers, instead of putting 287282 drivers everywhere.


----------



## Deveraux

nxnje said:


> I completely agree.
> There isn't just a personal preferences fact now, the problem is the market is boosting IEMs with more drivers while many of em are not accurately tuned, many of them which still feature sibilance, very sharp highs, unnatural mids and so on.
> They should maybe think more on how they tune the drivers and the quality of their drivers, instead of putting 287282 drivers everywhere.



Exactly. My ZS5 v1 which is supposedly a 2 driver earphone is better than their own ZS7 with 5 drivers. :| *sigh*


----------



## Mybutthurts

Caipirina said:


> What uncanny timing
> 
> But 1500USD? I think they are trying to say 'this configuration SHOULD cost 1500USD, but we are KZ, we can do that for 99$'
> 
> Here once more for those of use who don't like clicking twitter links



'Should cost'  

my sentiments exactly, but I did raise my eyebrows when I saw the figure. 

Apologies for direct Twitter link but was on the bus at the time. So a quick post.


----------



## nxnje

Deveraux said:


> Exactly. My ZS5 v1 which is supposedly a 2 driver earphone is better than their own ZS7 with 5 drivers. :| *sigh*



I have never tried the ZS5 v1 but i like my ZS7 so much.


----------



## moisespr123

nxnje said:


> I have never tried the ZS5 v1 but i like my ZS7 so much.



Same. The KZ ZS7 are my first and their sound quality is great.

The KZ ZS10 Pro just arrived in the US and is currently in transit to me. Could be here by next week after it passes customs


----------



## nxnje

moisespr123 said:


> Same. The KZ ZS7 are my first and their sound quality is great.
> 
> The KZ ZS10 Pro just arrived in the US and is currently in transit to me. Could be here by next week after it passes customs



ZS7 are not my first pair as i had: AKG 321, KZ ED9, KZ ZS6, KZ ZS3, MEMT X5, Xiaomi Piston Fresh, Pioneer SE-CL711 and many more..
So i had something to refer and then i received more stuff after the ZS7 (like other 10 pairs of IEMs) and i still love them and how they sound.
Their soundstage is pretty impressive and their technical ability is great.
My CCA C10A are anyway a great competitor and i cannot really choose between the C10 and the ZS7..


----------



## Slater

Deveraux said:


> Exactly. My ZS5 v1 which is supposedly a 2 driver earphone is better than their own ZS7 with 5 drivers. :| *sigh*



ZS5 is not 2-driver.


----------



## Caipirina (Apr 26, 2019)

BCool said:


> 8 BAs per side!? I like the AS10 but even I'm starting to think this driver count is starting to go over the top




Just seeing that CCA already has a '16' model out there with 8BA on each ear  (~90usd)... anyone can comment on that one? I don't have a single CCA (they have been flying under my radar)

Edit: tried to delete my own post (how?) as I realize there is a CCA impression thread I can ask that in.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> ZS5 is not 2-driver.


Agreed, ZS5 has a quad driver config.


----------



## KimChee

I feel dumb, I changed my tips to smaller ones on the ZS7 and got a good insertion depth into my canal and it completely changed the sound.  Soundstage is spacious with better depth and resolution changed a lot too and is a step up from ZS6.  I can say this is on par or passes up my TF10 custom.  I’m impressed what can I say, this thing sounds incredible out of my AP80, and Lotoo Paw, it still amazes me the sound quality you can get for a low cost these days..


----------



## loomisjohnson

Wiljen said:


> ZSN pro review is up on my blog   this one was a good bit of work with the compare to ZSN.


very good objective review, wiljen


----------



## moisespr123

I always wondered why the KZ ZS7 aren't sold on their Aliexpress store...


----------



## KimChee

Burning them in will help a lot, also using smaller tips will help.  I’m just now around 60 hrs and before I had the same thoughts you did when comparing to ZS6.  It is a good step up in technical ability, just break it in man!  I was disappointed too at first lol.



Deveraux said:


> Got the ZS7 today and uhm.... I'm disappointed. Tried with the silver gold trn cable too.
> 
> Right now my ZS5 v1 sounds better. Both sounds similar with the ZS5 being more clearer. I don't know if burning in will improve it. But even if it does, it's more like a side grade, not an upgrade. I got it thinking it'd have a wider imaging than the ZS5 and I'm really sad that it sounds maybe slightly even more on the face than the ZS5 :/
> 
> I don't know why there is so much of hype when a new kz is launched, I seriously can't understand. Time to move on from kz I believe.


----------



## Slater (Apr 26, 2019)

moisespr123 said:


> I always wondered why the KZ ZS7 aren't sold on their Aliexpress store...



It is exclusive to some sellers, as it was privately ODM. So KZ cannot sell it directly due to dealer agreements. It’s not even directly available to Chinese customers.

The ZSR was this way at 1st. For a specific period of time, it was exclusive to Gearbest only.


----------



## Deveraux

Slater said:


> ZS5 is not 2-driver.



Wasn’t the v1 2 driver ? Wasn’t there some controversy or so regarding it? Or am I wrong?




KimChee said:


> Burning them in will help a lot, also using smaller tips will help.  I’m just now around 60 hrs and before I had the same thoughts you did when comparing to ZS6.  It is a good step up in technical ability, just break it in man!  I was disappointed too at first lol.



Wow I almost put up an ad for it. happy to hear that. Smaller tips like what? The stock ones are pretty perfect fit to my ears. And what the best way to burn in? Songs or the 1MoreAssistant app?


----------



## Slater (Apr 26, 2019)

Deveraux said:


> Wasn’t the v1 2 driver ? Wasn’t there some controversy or so regarding it? Or am I wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Someone who really didn’t understand the engineering behind an IEM started a untrue controversy that the 2 BA drivers were “fake” drivers in the ZS5. It is completely untrue however.

Besides openly admitting that he did it for YouTube views, it was also suspected that he had some sort of affiliation with someone who worked at CA (who were angry that it stole the shell design of the CA Andromeda). Nothing was ever proven about that though, but the damage was already done and people to this day still reference that totally inaccurate rumor.

The ZS5 was always a quad driver. 2xDD and 2xBA. Always was and still is.


----------



## KimChee

There’s complicated protocols of white noise, pink noise, different types of music that people with speakers use and a few people follow, but anymore I just plug it into my computer put the music on shuffle and leave it on for 100 hrs sometimes 150 if I’m feeling it...



Deveraux said:


> Wasn’t the v1 2 driver ? Wasn’t there some controversy or so regarding it? Or am I wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## KimChee

Just got notification my KZ Zs10 Pro has been delivered...can’t wait to get off work


----------



## eclein

I’m holding off for reviews before I jump in now. With news of all these new potentially killer iems coming down the pike my wallet refuses my advances!
TRN X6......new, ZS10 pro......new, CCA 5 BA ......new in May, Did I see a new AS10 mentioned?
*WOW!!*


----------



## Mouseman

KimChee said:


> Just got notification my KZ Zs10 Pro has been delivered...can’t wait to get off work


Mine seems to be stuck in Chicago, I can't wait to get it.  

I got the KZ Pro, and I am really enjoying it. Can't wait to see what they can do with some more capability.


----------



## khighly (Apr 26, 2019)

nxnje said:


> I completely agree.
> There isn't just a personal preferences fact now, the problem is the market is boosting IEMs with more drivers while many of em are not accurately tuned, many of them which still feature sibilance, very sharp highs, unnatural mids and so on.
> They should maybe think more on how they tune the drivers and the quality of their drivers, instead of putting 287282 drivers everywhere.


There are only three things that really matter here though.

1. Can we market it to get people to buy it at this price point? If we can (obviously they will, and can), then:
2. Can we make a sound signature that most people will be fine with, even if it has slight issues? Can we also make marketing influence how people perceive the sound? If we can, then:
3. Profit.

I do think KZ goes overboard with sku's though and should focus on 3-5 models. I really think a ZS7 in the pro shell with some tuning on the top end to give it a slight sparkle like the ZSN Pro could be a continued flagship model. It may have been beneficial to dip their toes in everything at first to learn some in house IEM design science.


----------



## randomnin

khighly said:


> There are only three things that really matter here though.
> 
> 1. Can we market it to get people to buy it at this price point? If we can (obviously they will, and can), then:
> 2. Can we make a sound signature that most people will be fine with, even if it has slight issues? Can we also make marketing influence how people perceive the sound? If we can, then:
> 3. Profit.


And not like it was the budget niche's idea - they're just aping the multi-k$ TOTL market which makes IEMs with even more drivers than 8 per side.


----------



## nraymond

randomnin said:


> And not like it was the budget niche's idea - they're just aping the multi-k$ TOTL market which makes IEMs with even more drivers than 8 per side.



Are 18 per ear enough for everyone?

https://www.64audio.com/product/1964-A18-Custom-In-Ear-Monitor

Will we eventually see the KZ ZS36 Pro?


----------



## Mouseman

nraymond said:


> Are 18 per ear enough for everyone?
> 
> https://www.64audio.com/product/1964-A18-Custom-In-Ear-Monitor
> 
> Will we eventually see the KZ ZS36 Pro?


I'm holding out for the KZ ZS512+++ Pro Limited Edition.


----------



## nxnje

khighly said:


> There are only three things that really matter here though.
> 
> 1. Can we market it to get people to buy it at this price point? If we can (obviously they will, and can), then:
> 2. Can we make a sound signature that most people will be fine with, even if it has slight issues? Can we also make marketing influence how people perceive the sound? If we can, then:
> ...



I'd have put profit as first pick.


----------



## KimChee

Well now, this was waiting for me when I got home.  It is burning in now, right next to the KZ ZS7.


----------



## B9Scrambler

A/Bing the ZSN, ZSN Pro and CCA C10 right now and dammit, the ZSN Pro is really starting to grow on me...took long enough. It's like a more forward, aggressive sounding version of the C10, though still pretty chill. Imaging is better than the regular ZSN too.

​


----------



## Wiljen

The next big step for KZ is to start designing and using tuning filters in the sound bores rather than relying on crossover components to handle all the filtering.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> The next big step for KZ is to start designing and using tuning filters in the sound bores rather than relying on crossover components to handle all the filtering.



Yes, a budget version of the LZ A4


----------



## Wiljen

Slater said:


> Yes, a budget version of the LZ A4



I was thinking more the filters for the ba sound tubes themselves as that offers the ability to tune each ba independently.


----------



## voicemaster

I would like KZ to make an ADEL ala 1964 back then.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> I was thinking more the filters for the ba sound tubes themselves as that offers the ability to tune each ba independently.



Yes, definitely. That doesn’t seem to be their thing for some reason. Actually, that’s not really a thing for most budget ChiFi. Why is beyond me, as the filters are not expensive.

BQEYZ uses filters on their high freq BAs, and it shows. That’s one reason why they’re stuff sounds as good as it does.


----------



## anindyameister

KZ launched bluetooth cable with CSR8675 chipset. APTx-HD support over BT 5.0 for $26 !!

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Aptx-HD-CSR8675-Bluetooth-Module-Earphone-5-0-Wireless-Upgrade-Cable-Applies-Original-Headphones-AS10ZSTZSNProZS10Pro/


----------



## moisespr123

anindyameister said:


> KZ launched bluetooth cable with CSR8675 chipset. APTx-HD support over BT 5.0 for $26 !!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Aptx-HD-CSR8675-Bluetooth-Module-Earphone-5-0-Wireless-Upgrade-Cable-Applies-Original-Headphones-AS10ZSTZSNProZS10Pro/



Yes. I posted it a few posts ago. Ordered it, but not yet shipped.


----------



## anindyameister

moisespr123 said:


> Yes. I posted it a few posts ago. Ordered it, but not yet shipped.


If only they'd gotten rid of the ceramic antenna. Choppy connection is pretty much the only major downside in an otherwise excellent cable.


----------



## purplesun

eclein said:


> Did I see a new AS10 mentioned?


You are probably talking about my posts with @Slater and @LaughMoreDaily about hoping for an improved AS10 Pro. Afaik, there is no official news about it.


----------



## Slater

anindyameister said:


> If only they'd gotten rid of the ceramic antenna. Choppy connection is pretty much the only major downside in an otherwise excellent cable.



I guess they went with a ceramic antenna to save space.

They used to have a trace antenna on their previous Bluetooth cables, but they screwed up the engineering of it and it was tuned to the wrong frequency (very Mickey Mouse). So I guess the ceramic antenna takes the engineering guesswork out it. I’m hoping the performance of this cable is better.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> You are probably talking about my posts with @Slater and @LaughMoreDaily about hoping for an improved AS10 Pro. Afaik, there is no official news about it.



Yeah, I was just joking around about it. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it really happened.

KZ has been on an ~18-month upgrade cycle, so it’s about time for an AS10 refresh


----------



## darmanastartes (Apr 27, 2019)

I'm pretty late to the party, but I've posted my review of the KZ AS10 here on Head-Fi and on my blog.


----------



## purplesun (Apr 26, 2019)

Slater said:


> Yeah, I was just joking around about it. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it really happened.
> KZ has been on an ~18-month upgrade cycle, so it’s about time for an AS10 refresh


Agreed. In the meantime, the pre-announced CCA C20 has yet to be seen.
A headfier cannot live by just hype alone, I need that order button ASAP


----------



## nxnje

purplesun said:


> Agreed. In the meantime, the pre-announced CCA C20 has yet to be seen.
> A headfier cannot live by just hype alone, I need that order button ASAP



Hype is just the start that wakes up the monkey in us


----------



## purplesun

nxnje said:


> Hype is just the start that wakes up the monkey in us


Choo choo! I'll get the carriages shunted up, while you go look for the train driver. Engr Clearhead  is probably on his break. .


----------



## carltonh (Apr 26, 2019)

I've definitely been enjoying the ZS10 Pro today. Though I don't consider it an upgrade to the original ZS10, except that many more people will be able to get a perfect fit and so be able to appreciate it better. Unlike the ZSN to ZSN Pro, there was a bigger change in the V-shape profile. 2 KHz balance went down and 6 KHz went up. I think I slightly prefer the old ZS10 EQ profile. The ZS10 Pro seems like it was also influenced by the CCA C10 tuning, like it is almost a C10 Pro as well. Like the ZS10, soundstage, details, imaging, bass and treble extension are all extremely good. I prefer the more forward mids presentation of the **** ****, but the micro-details are better in the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 26, 2019)

purplesun said:


> Eclien, You are probably talking about my posts hoping for an improved AS10 Pro. Afaik, there is no official news about it.


I heard it's called the CCA C16?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 26, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Just on Amazon checking out some stuff. Noticed that the KZ ZS10 Pro was $59.99. However if you choose Blue for color and then select with mic, it becomes $49.99 Prime shipped. Click on the $3 off in cart coupon and you could have a new ZS10 Pro for $46.99 Prime shipped.


Don't you find the Pro expensive? I paid $22USD for my ZS10. It's a terrible IEM too.


----------



## maxxevv (Apr 26, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Don't you find the Pro expensive? I paid $22USD for my ZS10. It's a terrible IEM too.



The ZS10 was US$59 at launch.

Your US$22 price point was many, many months after that .....

They were asking US$60 for the ZS7 and U$45 for the CCA C10 at launch.  How much did you pay for those ?


----------



## durwood

Slater said:


> BQEYZ uses filters on their high freq BAs, and it shows. That’s one reason why they’re stuff sounds as good as it does.



I had no idea the BQEYZ were using them, were they advertised or how did you find that out? This is the first time I heard that.


----------



## Slater

durwood said:


> I had no idea the BQEYZ were using them, were they advertised or how did you find that out? This is the first time I heard that.



Took it apart and looked


----------



## courierdriver (Apr 27, 2019)

KimChee said:


> Well now, this was waiting for me when I got home.  It is burning in now, right next to the KZ ZS7.


Please post sound impressions, fit, and comparisons when you can. I'm looking at this, ZS7 and ZSN Pro to buy early next week...I need serious guidance. One thing I already DON'T  like...is the way that 2 pin connector sticks up outside the bud. Where am I gonna find a 0.75 mm aftermarket balanced 2.5mm cable that's gonna fit THAT dumbass thing??!! Almost everything is either 0.78mm 2 pin or MMCX that is for recessed ports.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Took it apart and looked


What do you think of the K2? I was looking at this set or the K2C also instead of the ZS10 PRO. Any thoughts?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 27, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> The ZS10 was US$59 at launch. They were asking US$60 for the ZS7 and U$45 for the CCA C10 at launch.  How much did you pay for those ?


ZS7 = $55 CAN. C10 = $35 CAN.


----------



## nxnje

I got:
- ZS7 for 17$ after a discount for a review on my website (but they were at 40$ just some days after the launch)
- CCA C10: some 0.10$ for the same reason (they were arouns 30$
- ZS10: i've never bought it


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I paid $22USD for my ZS10. It's a terrible IEM too.



I wish you would not make statements like that as though they are fact. You do that a lot.  It is your opinion, your experience...possibly due to tip and fit issues.   Just say they they did not suit you... or your taste... or possibly your gear.

There are those of us who do like the ZS10.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Don't you find the Pro expensive? I paid $22USD for my ZS10. It's a terrible IEM too.


You paid $22 for the zs10 because it was a clearance sale.  I paid $45 for my zs10 when it came out.  I found the zs10 to be good at some things and bad at others.  After eq, everything was fine outside of the fact it's pretty large.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> What do you think of the K2? I was looking at this set or the K2C also instead of the ZS10 PRO. Any thoughts?



I like the K2. It's v shaped with a nice overall sound. Build quality is excellent. The shell is pretty big and might not fit your ears if you have really small ears. I have average sized ears and it fits me just fine. The nice thing about the BA filter is that the treble is smooth and non-offensive. No sibilance, sharpness, harshness, fatigue, etc.

I don't have the KC2, but from what I understand it is the same as the K2, just less low end (for a more balanced sound). There is a few reviews/impressions floating around from people that own both, so maybe try a search and see if you can find the info. 

I don't have the ZS10 Pro yet, so I can't compare. Mine is on my way.


----------



## TechnoidFR

courierdriver said:


> Please post sound impressions, fit, and comparisons when you can. I'm looking at this, ZS7 and ZSN Pro to buy early next week...I need serious guidance. One thing I already DON'T  like...is the way that 2 pin connector sticks up outside the bud. Where am I gonna find a 0.75 mm aftermarket balanced 2.5mm cable that's gonna fit THAT dumbass thing??!! Almost everything is either 0.78mm 2 pin or MMCX that is for recessed ports.



I'm waiting zsn pro and zs10 pro which arrive this week normally

I have c10/zs7/zs10/zsn/ca4/as10 etc etc etc ( except ba10 ) so I'll can compare them


----------



## moisespr123

My KZ ZS10 Pro is now in my state. Should arrive on Monday since it's still at the regional sorting center. 

I just can't wait to receive it and use it with my balanced cable and the TRN BT20, and with the new KZ Bluetooth adapter once that ships and I get it next month.


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like the AS10 but I presume it will be 5 BA's a side and not 10 a side?

Not that keen on the type C connector and it looks like the inner part maybe transparent where it wasn't in the C16 / AS06 / AS10 body.


----------



## Caipirina

How uncanny, I JUST spotted that one as well



TheVortex said:


> Looks like the AS10 but I presume it will be 5 BA's a side and not 10 a side?



I think the big fat "5" printed on there is a good give away  ... pretty sure also they will eventually call a 10BA per ear the C20   or something with 20 in it 

Buy now I am really confused as to what I want to get next. Somehow 40$ is my pain level ... and the 8BA per side are popping up at 90$-ish ...  still contemplating if BA10 or ZS10Pro (waiting for impressions)


----------



## eclein

Thanks! The new CCA we see with large #5 on side could be darn close or its a new BA10 or similar. The BA10 is so good and so underrated imo that I’m hoping to see it in “pro” version.


----------



## pbui44

TheVortex said:


> Looks like the AS10 but I presume it will be 5 BA's a side and not 10 a side?



Yes, the “10” in the name refers to 10 drivers in one set and the “5” on each housing refers to the 5 drivers in each housing.


----------



## eclein

I just saw the above posts.  Its A10.....the fun begins!


----------



## KimChee

I will in a few days once the ZS10 Pro is burned in a bit...honestly at this point I’d be happy with just the ZS7 as it is s good step up from the ZS6.  But I saw the ZS10 Pro coming out, so you know the mentality here “latest and greatest”...I too prefer the recessed sockets 



courierdriver said:


> Please post sound impressions, fit, and comparisons when you can. I'm looking at this, ZS7 and ZSN Pro to buy early next week...I need serious guidance. One thing I already DON'T  like...is the way that 2 pin connector sticks up outside the bud. Where am I gonna find a 0.75 mm aftermarket balanced 2.5mm cable that's gonna fit THAT dumbass thing??!! Almost everything is either 0.78mm 2 pin or MMCX that is for recessed ports.


----------



## KimChee

Isn’t CCA20 coming out soon?



pbui44 said:


> Yes, the “10” in the name refers to 10 drivers in one set and the “5” on each housing refers to the 5 drivers in each housing.


----------



## eclein

KimChee said:


> Isn’t CCA20 coming out soon?



Supposed to be yes


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I like the K2. It's v shaped with a nice overall sound. Build quality is excellent. The shell is pretty big and might not fit your ears if you have really small ears. I have average sized ears and it fits me just fine. The nice thing about the BA filter is that the treble is smooth and non-offensive. No sibilance, sharpness, harshness, fatigue, etc.
> 
> I don't have the KC2, but from what I understand it is the same as the K2, just less low end (for a more balanced sound). There is a few reviews/impressions floating around from people that own both, so maybe try a search and see if you can find the info.
> 
> I don't have the ZS10 Pro yet, so I can't compare. Mine is on my way.


Yeah, I did check the forums and found a review that compared K2 and K2C and it said pretty much what you just did. I've had them in my cart both on Ali and on Amazon,  but I keep moving them out to "save for later" because everyone keeps mentioning that they are kinda large for some people. That's what I'm worried about with them and the ZS10 PRO. The fit issue is a big deal for me since I'd like to wear for at least 2-3 hours at a time without pain or discomfort and I want them to stay in my ears. My Kanas Pro is for me the ultimate fit, but they are kinda small compared to alot of other stuff I have seen. Thanks for the help though, and I'll keep an eye out for your review of the ZS10 PRO when you get them. Aside from size worries, I'm also concerned about that 2 pin connector that sticks out of the shell. I'm guessing that its gonna be a pain to find a compatible aftermarket 2.5mm balanced cable with 0.75 pins to fit that weird connector. Really wish KZ would just stick to the standard 0.78mm pins and use a regular recessed connector in their shells so that people can upgrade their cables more easily.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Caipirina said:


> How uncanny, I JUST spotted that one as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After try few 100$ iems, the difference is perceptible. Rammstein is very awesome to listen with c16. Clearly perfect for this group. They are less fatiguing, less agressive, more mature sound.


----------



## KimChee (Apr 27, 2019)

This. Really wish they would change to .78 pins and recessed sockets.  There are a lot of cables on Ali, that cable 130 looks good...is only about $50-60.




courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I did check the forums and found a review that compared K2 and K2C and it said pretty much what you just did. I've had them in my cart both on Ali and on Amazon,  but I keep moving them out to "save for later" because everyone keeps mentioning that they are kinda large for some people. That's what I'm worried about with them and the ZS10 PRO. The fit issue is a big deal for me since I'd like to wear for at least 2-3 hours at a time without pain or discomfort and I want them to stay in my ears. My Kanas Pro is for me the ultimate fit, but they are kinda small compared to alot of other stuff I have seen. Thanks for the help though, and I'll keep an eye out for your review of the ZS10 PRO when you get them. Aside from size worries, I'm also concerned about that 2 pin connector that sticks out of the shell. I'm guessing that its gonna be a pain to find a compatible aftermarket 2.5mm balanced cable with 0.75 pins to fit that weird connector. Really wish KZ would just stick to the standard 0.78mm pins and use a regular recessed connector in their shells so that people can upgrade their cables more easily.


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> This. Really wish they would change to .78 pins and recessed sockets.  There are a lot of cables on Ali, that cable 130 looks good...is only about $50-60.


I agree. Last month I bought ISN C16 balanced cable for less than $60 CDN from Ali anniversary sale for Kanas Pro. I also got a balanced cable from Ebay (because I had a 10% discount coupon that was expiring at the end of the month and wanted to take advantage of). Its a cheaper TRN cable and only cost me $15, but it looks and feels nice and am planning on using it with whatever I decide to get next, possibly ZS10 PRO. But damn KZ and their multiple types of sockets and the 0 75mm pin size. KZ is known for having notoriously poor quality cables, so that's the first thing I'd be looking to swap out.


----------



## nraymond

courierdriver said:


> Aside from size worries, I'm also concerned about that 2 pin connector that sticks out of the shell. I'm guessing that its gonna be a pain to find a compatible aftermarket 2.5mm balanced cable with 0.75 pins to fit that weird connector.



Cable options are the downside right now I think. I'm also confused why one of the few ZSN-specific aftermarket balanced cables out there is listed as a 0.78mm cable, when KZ uses 0.75mm? This is the one I'm talking about:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965501955.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965649117.html


----------



## mbwilson111

nraymond said:


> Cable options are the downside right now I think. I'm also confused why one of the few ZSN-specific aftermarket balanced cables out there is listed as a 0.78mm cable, when KZ uses 0.75mm? This is the one I'm talking about:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965501955.html
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965649117.html



The one I am using with my ZSN is from the first link... no problem at all.

I have the balanced plug.


----------



## ShakyJake (Apr 27, 2019)

Slater said:


> Took it apart and looked


Off course you did!


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> ... pretty sure also they will eventually call a 10BA per ear the C20   or something with 20 in it



They are working on a C20. Supposed to be released any day now...


----------



## archdawg

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I did check the forums and found a review that compared K2 and K2C and it said pretty much what you just did. I've had them in my cart both on Ali and on Amazon,  but I keep moving them out to "save for later" because everyone keeps mentioning that they are kinda large for some people. That's what I'm worried about with them


Same here, lol. I've got relatively small ears and their size is the only thing that more than once kept me from pulling the trigger.


----------



## antdroid (Apr 27, 2019)

Just got the KZ ZS10 Pro in for review from Linsoul. It’s actually not a bad sounding IEM! I found the ZSN Pro too bright, but this one is just slightly less bright from initial hearing impressions. The treble sounded slightly grainy, but not bad for this price. Then measured it afterward and seems to go with my hearing.

Here’s my quick and dirty measurements with ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro


----------



## BadReligionPunk

archdawg said:


> Same here, lol. I've got relatively small ears and their size is the only thing that more than once kept me from pulling the trigger.


I consider myself to have medium sized ears, and have worn the KC2 for over 16 hours the past 2 days, with minimal irritation. They are big enough that I can always feel that they are there. They usually do not start to get hurty for 2-3 hours for me, but after a quick pullout and reposistion they are fine again for awhile. 

They are definitely meaty though.


----------



## KimChee

Sorry if the ZS7 is old news, but I have about 100+ hrs on it now and I could have easily just stayed with this one.  It is a really fun sounding iem with good clarity.  It doesn’t play nice with my AK380, but it sounds incredible with the Lotoo and AP80.  I put the not quite burned in ZS10 Pro in for a bit, and I can tell an increase in clarity over ZS7, very similar sound signature but I think separation might be better and spatial cues are improved.  Might be my imagination, but I think I’m getting some front to back separation too...I’ll run it in a few more days and compare it to my ciems too


----------



## BadReligionPunk

@KimChee Anyway to compare the PRO10 with the ZS10? Do you still have that one to compare?


----------



## archdawg

BadReligionPunk said:


> I consider myself to have medium sized ears, and have worn the KC2 for over 16 hours the past 2 days, with minimal irritation. They are big enough that I can always feel that they are there. They usually do not start to get hurty for 2-3 hours for me, but after a quick pullout and reposistion they are fine again for awhile.
> 
> They are definitely meaty though.


Thanks! I'm already having issues with some not-too-big IEMs and will burn my €€€ somewhere else now ... what about a third pair of ZS6 (green ones), lol.
Those KC2 look great though, sigh ...


----------



## KimChee

Sorry I don’t own the ZS10 anymore



BadReligionPunk said:


> @KimChee Anyway to compare the PRO10 with the ZS10? Do you still have that one to compare?


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 27, 2019)

purplesun said:


> Choo choo! I'll get the carriages shunted up, while you go look for the train driver. Engr Clearhead  is probably on his break. .


Moving from one city to another is a real bummer.  ...gonna give it a month's break until I'm settled in!


----------



## pbui44

KimChee said:


> Isn’t CCA20 coming out soon?



Umm...maybe???


----------



## KimChee

I remember when I left the boards for about 4/5 years the driver wars for customs were starting up...I was going to just get CCA16, but I think I’ll hold off for CCA20...insane...back Roxanne had an insane amount of drivers now I believe Zeus has 14...



pbui44 said:


> Umm...maybe???


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 27, 2019)

I just listened to the Astell & Kern SR15 with the CCA C10 at the Vancouver Audio Festival and wow. The A&K sure does sound like it's worth $900 and the C10 holds it's own with it. Not bad for $35 CAN.

Should I part with my $70 AD797BR Zishan Z1 for the SR15? Lol. The 797 is dark while the SR15 is seriously musical. Amazing.


----------



## Slater (Apr 27, 2019)

I need a favor. If someone can help me.

I took comparison photos of the 3 different Starline tips (all medium size). You can click any of the photos for super jumbo photos.

The old (grey) one is on the left, the 2nd revised version is in the middle, and the oddball is on the far right. You can see the how the other 2 look "flat" on the top edge, and the far right one is "sharp" on the top edge:



Here you can see how the walls of the tip are thicker on the 2 original ones, and the walls of the far right one is thinner:


Here you can see how the 2 original ones have a smaller bore, and the far right one is slightly larger bore. It's not larger by a huge amount; perhaps ~1mm:



*Here's what I need help with. I thought the far right one came on my ZSNs or maybe my ZS4. But I double checked and now I don't think so now. I some how got which came on what all mixed up, and now I don't really know what model the far right one came on. It could even be the ZS7, who knows.

Could someone please check their tips and let me know which one the far right one came on? I need to know with 100% certainty which model the far right one came stock on (ie the one with the "sharp" top edge). It seems to have only come on ONE model.

The one in the middle is the most common type, and is the type on all current KZs.

I want to know about the one with the sharp edge, not the one with the flat edge:

 

Thanks a bunch!*


----------



## Superluc

My ZSN's stock tips are like the left ones, with the flat edge.


----------



## B9Scrambler

@Slater The ones with the "sharp" lip (far right) came with the ZS4 and one other model. Can't recall which. ZSN came with a standard set of 'Starlines' and a smooth medium tip pre-installed.


----------



## Superluc

They are softer than the previous ones ?


----------



## Slater (Apr 27, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> @Slater The ones with the "sharp" lip (far right) came with the ZS4 and one other model. Can't recall which. ZSN came with a standard set of 'Starlines' and a smooth medium tip pre-installed.



Thanks buddy. I was 90% sure they came with the ZS4, but my ZS4 have Auvios on them at the moment. So I couldn’t remember for sure what came stock on the ZS4.

I’d love to know what the “1 other model” is 



Superluc said:


> They are softer than the previous ones ?



It’s softer than previous models mainly because it’s thinner. The actual silicone material itself feels the same when I flip the tips inside out.

If you want super soft silicone eartip, the Sony Hybrid tips are amazing. You can get them on Aliexpress fairly cheap. They’ve got a narrow bore. Besides being super soft, the silicone formula is kind of like tacky or grippy. Kinda hard to explain in words, but you can feel what I mean right away. This allows them to grip your ear canal an stay in really well. The silicone material is unlike any other tip I own (and I have loads and loads of different tips).

In fact, it may not even be silicone at all. My guess is it’s some sort of TPE or ‘synthetic skin’ or similar material. Like the stuff they make super realistic prosthetics and high end special FX movie masks out out of (that’s similar to real skin).


----------



## Leo-rume

Slater said:


> I need a favor. If someone can help me.
> 
> I took comparison photos of the 3 different Starline tips (all medium size). You can click any of the photos for super jumbo photos.
> 
> ...


I distinctly remember the medium tips on my ZS3E being the ones on the far right, while the small and large tips were the regular starlines(middle in your picture). I found it really strange while unboxing, that's why I took note. I don't know if that's the same configuration as in the ZS4 as I don't have it.


----------



## Slater (Apr 27, 2019)

Leo-rume said:


> I distinctly remember the medium tips on my ZS3E being the ones on the far right, while the small and large tips were the regular starlines(middle in your picture). I found it really strange while unboxing, that's why I took note. I don't know if that's the same configuration as in the ZS4 as I don't have it.



Agreed; that's what originally caught my eye in the 1st place. I only use medium tips, so they stuck out like a sore thumb (especially when they're the pre-installed tip, which you noticed as soon as you removed the ZS4 from the package).

Why on earth that ZS4 tip would be different than other KZ models, and why only the medium size (when the S and L are the normal Starline design) is beyond me.

You see, to make a new tip requires an entirely new injection mold. And quality injection molds are not cheap to make. The tip has no flash or other rough edges, so it was made with a very good mold. Why KZ would go to the trouble to make a brand new expensive mold when they already had existing Starline tips; one that incorporates purposeful eartip design differences? And if so, why for the medium size only? And why only put it on the ZS4 and ZS3E?

It's certainly a very odd anomaly, and I'd love to know the real story behind it. I guess only time will tell if it was just a 1-off fluke, or if it is indeed a 3rd Starline revision that they will start using on future models.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> The one I am using with my ZSN is from the first link... no problem at all.
> 
> I have the balanced plug.


So, I guess the question is: is it really a 0.75mm or a 0.78 that will actually fit? I've read that a few people have used a 0.78 2 pin and it will work...but some have also said that once doing so, if you try to go back to a 0.75, it will fall out or no longer fit snugly. Am wondering if the 0.78 stretches out the receptacle hole enough to make the stock 0.75 KZ cables unusable. Any thoughts?


----------



## courierdriver

archdawg said:


> Same here, lol. I've got relatively small ears and their size is the only thing that more than once kept me from pulling the trigger.


It sucks that there aren't more physical brick & mortar shops around (like in Japan or Singapore for example) in North America or Europe, where people could test out these products for fit and comfort as well as sound quality. The biggest problem is not being able to try out how they fit. This is the same reason why I still buy clothes and shoes in an actual store and not online...you cant buy stuff like this just based on specs and descriptions. Its gotta actually fit your unique shape.


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> Sorry if the ZS7 is old news, but I have about 100+ hrs on it now and I could have easily just stayed with this one.  It is a really fun sounding iem with good clarity.  It doesn’t play nice with my AK380, but it sounds incredible with the Lotoo and AP80.  I put the not quite burned in ZS10 Pro in for a bit, and I can tell an increase in clarity over ZS7, very similar sound signature but I think separation might be better and spatial cues are improved.  Might be my imagination, but I think I’m getting some front to back separation too...I’ll run it in a few more days and compare it to my ciems too


Looking forward to more if your impressions. I'm narrowing it down to ZS7 and ZS10 Pro for KZ stuff. Still got my eye on TFZ King Exclusive too. The cost of the KZ's are definitely a more affordable option, but the ability to upgrade cables from a 0.78 single ended to a 0.78 balanced with a regular recessed port and cable termination might be the deal breaker


----------



## Makahl

Out of interest, what tips are you guys using on ZS4?

The stock starlines didn't "lock" on the nozzle and it always slips and get stuck in my ears whenever I try to go deeper than usual and taking them off on commute is a nightmare, lol.
Tennmak Whirldwind M has that "lock" and the fit is perfect but I think due to less isolation/weaker seal and rather wide-bore I am not getting the ideal sub-bass.

So I'd appreciate any suggestion.


----------



## archdawg (Apr 28, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> It sucks that there aren't more physical brick & mortar shops around (like in Japan or Singapore for example) in North America or Europe, where people could test out these products for fit and comfort as well as sound quality. The biggest problem is not being able to try out how they fit. This is the same reason why I still buy clothes and shoes in an actual store and not online...you cant buy stuff like this just based on specs and descriptions. Its gotta actually fit your unique shape.


It sucks even more if you happen to live on an island somewhere in the atlantic ocean. The nearest B&M store I know of is in Valencia (Spain), 1874km/1164mi from here as the crow flies. Those folks carry a really decent selection of IEMs (Campfire & Co.) and offer a 14 day money back guarantee but most shops on the mainland don't ship anything to the Canaries because it's a special zone with it's own fiscal system (think of a paradise for alcoholics and chain smokers). Luckily most of the stuff from Aliexpress, Gearbest, etc... gets through, even though it usually takes aaaaages; usually my mail gets stuck for about two weeks in some sort of detention center ... What ???


----------



## Leo-rume

Slater said:


> Agreed; that's what originally caught my eye in the 1st place. I only use medium tips, so they stuck out like a sore thumb (especially when they're the pre-installed tip, which you noticed as soon as you removed the ZS4 from the package).
> 
> Why on earth that ZS4 tip would be different than other KZ models, and why only the medium size (when the S and L are the normal Starline design) is beyond me.
> 
> ...


Yes, It is indeed odd, only time will tell. I'm hoping it's not just a one time thing and actually a third revision. I like the texture better. The thinner layer just does it for me. The OG starlines I found too hard and thick. They irritate my ears after long listening sessions. It's a shame I only use size L tips, these would have been my go to tips as I like the general design of the starlines. They fit me very well, but the thickness and hardness gets to me after listening for 2hrs+.


----------



## maxxevv

KZ AS16 anyone ??


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> So, I guess the question is: is it really a 0.75mm or a 0.78 that will actually fit? I've read that a few people have used a 0.78 2 pin and it will work...but some have also said that once doing so, if you try to go back to a 0.75, it will fall out or no longer fit snugly. Am wondering if the 0.78 stretches out the receptacle hole enough to make the stock 0.75 KZ cables unusable. Any thoughts?



I am not going to worry about it.  It fits and was made for that connector.  That cable is on to stay


----------



## Caipirina

maxxevv said:


> KZ AS16 anyone ??


Price? Up anywhere yet? Pre-sale specials?


----------



## jibberish

Makahl said:


> Out of interest, what tips are you guys using on ZS4?
> 
> The stock starlines didn't "lock" on the nozzle and it always slips and get stuck in my ears whenever I try to go deeper than usual and taking them off on commute is a nightmare, lol.
> Tennmak Whirldwind M has that "lock" and the fit is perfect but I think due to less isolation/weaker seal and rather wide-bore I am not getting the ideal sub-bass.
> ...


I use RHA double flange silicone tips. After a couple months of use they do occasionally slide off when removing them from my ears, but I've got tons of those tips and just swap in a new pair. They provide an incredible seal, which does the job for noise isolation and bass.


----------



## antdroid

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just listened to the Astell & Kern SR15 with the CCA C10 at the Vancouver Audio Festival and wow. The A&K sure does sound like it's worth $900 and the C10 holds it's own with it. Not bad for $35 CAN.
> 
> Should I part with my $70 AD797BR Zishan Z1 for the SR15? Lol. The 797 is dark while the SR15 is seriously musical. Amazing.



I just bought the sr15 and I really like it. Nice inviting and lively sound signature and good about UI. It's definitely better than the fiio M9 I ended up returning and I like it more than the pioneer xdp300r I still own.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Out of interest, what tips are you guys using on ZS4?
> 
> The stock starlines didn't "lock" on the nozzle and it always slips and get stuck in my ears whenever I try to go deeper than usual and taking them off on commute is a nightmare, lol.
> Tennmak Whirldwind M has that "lock" and the fit is perfect but I think due to less isolation/weaker seal and rather wide-bore I am not getting the ideal sub-bass.
> ...



The stock Starlines included on the ZS4 are an odd Starline, with a larger-than-normal core. If you switch to a 'regular' Starline, found on just about any other KZ, it will work on the ZS4.

You can see what I'm talking about below. The oddball ZS4 Starline is on the far right, with the regular (grey and black) Starlines being on the left and middle.


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> It sucks even more if you happen to live on an island somewhere in the atlantic ocean. The nearest B&M store I know of is in Valencia (Spain), 1874km/1164mi from here as the crow flies. Those folks carry a really decent selection of IEMs (Campfire & Co.) and offer a 14 day money back guarantee but most shops on the mainland don't ship anything to the Canaries because it's a special zone with it's own fiscal system (think of a paradise for alcoholics and chain smokers). Luckily most of the stuff from Aliexpress, Gearbest, etc... gets through, even though it usually takes aaaaages; usually my mail gets stuck for about two weeks in some sort of detention center ... What ???



Just go to the audio store by boat!


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I am not going to worry about it.  It fits and was made for that connector.  That cable is on to stay


Ok, fair enough. Looks like I'll add that cable to my cart, along with the ZS10 Pro. Thanks for the help.


----------



## KimChee

16 balanced armature drivers and no dynamic drivers, supposed to be released in July.  Maybe this one will be made to compete with CCA20...

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-announces-a-16-driver-headphone-news/


----------



## Slater

KimChee said:


> 16 balanced armature drivers and no dynamic drivers, supposed to be released in July.  Maybe this one will be made to compete with CCA20...
> 
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-announces-a-16-driver-headphone-news/



It’s the KZ twin to the CCA C16


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Thanks buddy. I was 90% sure they came with the ZS4, but my ZS4 have Auvios on them at the moment. So I couldn’t remember for sure what came stock on the ZS4.
> 
> _I’d love to know what the “1 other model” is _



Checked. The other model is the ZS3E.

And here is the ZS10 Pro among some other similarly housed earphones; ZSN, C10, and ZST. Quite similar to the ZSN. That chrome finish sure does shine.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Checked. The other model is the ZS3E.
> 
> And here is the ZS10 Pro among some other similarly housed earphones; ZSN, C10, and ZST. Quite similar to the ZSN. That chrome finish sure does shine.



Thanks a bunch B9. I appreciate it 

That ZS10 sure is a looker. I can’t wait for mine to show up


----------



## KimChee (Apr 28, 2019)

I’ve done some extensive listening between the KZ ZS7 and KZ ZS10 Pro.  Let me just say first I’m not a fan of the memory wire on the ZS10 Pro.  It is way too loose and doesn’t hold the iem in place, fortunately I swapped the cable for another KZ cable I had in my collection.  Most of my testing was done with my Hidizs AP80, Lotoo Paw Gold, and Burson Soloist.

KZ10 Pro Sound

The treble is detailed, with good extension and air.  The timbre is darker and laid back.  There is a slight grain but not that noticeable for the price range.  Compared to the ZS7 it is less bright, less energetic, with a similar level of detail just a different presentation.  As a side note I don’t find the treble in the 7 to be offensive since it’s a bit rolled off.

The mids are very similar to the ZS7, a bit more present and forward.  The V shape overall isn’t as sharp as with the ZS7.  There is no upper mid emphasis as with the 7, this area is clearer, vocals are cleaner.

The bass has a nice low end grunt to it, it has good texture, and control, the quantity to my ears is less than the 7, which sounds more punchy and dynamic in comparison.  I find the 7 more “boomy” and I don’t mean that in a negative way.  I will break in the 10Pro more but I suspect this won’t change much.

The soundstage is wide and spacious even more so than the 7, which I found wide to begin with.  When the JH Roxanne and Angie came out people used words to describe them like “out of head experience, headphone like” regarding the soundstage, and I don’t think the 10Pro is quite there, but the soundstage is on the edge of being headphone like.  The stage also has good depth, imaging, layering, and positional cues and instrument separation are also a step above the 7.  I was impressed with the instrument positioning and separation is excellent.

In technical abilities it is for the most part better than the Zs7, but I prefer the more aggressive, punchy dynamic sound of the ZS7 personally, even though it has less clarity and separation.  The ZS10 Pro is more laid back sounding, more detailed with better imaging, separation, and a great soundstage.

The ZS7/ZS10Pro reminds me of owning the Denon D7000 and the Fostex TH900.  They both had a V shaped signature, the Fostex was clearer and cleaner but a bit too “reference” (I know these aren’t reference phones, but you follow my idea), while the D7000 was the more fun phone with less technical abilities.

The ZS7 reminds me of a custom I owned a long time ago that was one of the first hybrid customs the Thousand Sounds TS842. It had a deep dynamic driver with the Ety ER4P treble/mids on top.

Hope this helps anyone in the fence and honestly you can’t go wrong with either iem or you can own both like me lol, and it won’t cost you an arm and a leg.  I love listening to new gear and testing out new toys, I’m waiting on the CCA20 next.


----------



## VICosPhi (Apr 28, 2019)

So I had Kanas Pros, ZS7 and just got ZS10 Pro. I had somewhat similar experience between ZS7 and ZS10 Pro as @KimChee mentioned in his post earlier. Here is my take:

*ZS7 *
- Nice sub bass, I guess you need a dynamic driver for a sub bass like this.
- Treble is forward and there are times when it may sound harsh
- Mids and vocals are forward and clear
- Fit is fine as long as you get foam tips
- Recessed 2pin connector works fine and this is what KZ should be using for future models

*ZS10 Pro*
- Slightly more sub bass, mid bass is similar to ZS7
- Treble is "refined", it is not as forward as ZS7 but it sounds "cleaner"
- Mids and vocals are more forward and natural sounding than ZS7 mids, they sound similar to the mids on Kanas Pro
- Fit is fine as long as you get foam tips
- Protruding 2pin C type connector is an unnecessary bulge. They should just standardize on a 2pin recessed connector like some of the TOTL IEMs use. Now we must get a C type cable that works with these, which is pointless.

Overall sound signature of ZS10 Pro sounds more natural than ZS7 (ZS7 sounds like it is EQ'd by default for a V sound signature). Guitars sound more natural on ZS10 Pro.

I like ZS10 Pro better between the two because it sounds more refined and natural, treble is more controlled and there is very slight edge on sub bass over ZS7.


----------



## Mybutthurts

B9Scrambler said:


> Checked. The other model is the ZS3E.
> 
> And here is the ZS10 Pro among some other similarly housed earphones; ZSN, C10, and ZST. Quite similar to the ZSN. That chrome finish sure does shine.



Can I ask what make / model is the IEM with Chinese characters on...it looks cool even for an old sod like me.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mybutthurts said:


> Can I ask what make / model is the IEM with Chinese characters on...it looks cool even for an old sod like me.



Special Edition ZST. There were a few different faceplates. This, a joker, and something else. Sounds the same as the regular ZST.


----------



## sino8r

To those who's ZS10 Pros have arrived... Is there driver flex like the ZS7s? 

Will driving flex decrease the life of a dynamic driver?


----------



## B9Scrambler

No driver flex on my ZS10 Pro. Or my ZS7 for that matter.


----------



## Slater

sino8r said:


> To those who's ZS10 Pros have arrived... Is there driver flex like the ZS7s?
> 
> Will driving flex decrease the life of a dynamic driver?



No flex on my ZS7.

There should be no flex, as it has a front vent. So if you’re getting flex, it would indicate an issue with the front vent (like its clogged or just that it’s being covered up by the skin of your ear).

You can try holding your mouth open while you insert the ZS7. Or you can try foam tips. Both of those will help with driver flex.


----------



## Folly

VICosPhi said:


> So I had Kanas Pros, ZS7 and just got ZS10 Pro. I had somewhat similar experience between ZS7 and ZS10 Pro as @KimChee mentioned in his post earlier. Here is my take:
> 
> *ZS7 *
> - Nice sub bass, I guess you need a dynamic driver for a sub bass like this.
> ...



how about ZS10 pro vs Kanas pro?


----------



## KimChee

No driver flex on ZS10 Pro or ZS7


----------



## KimChee

Hold your mouth open and pull down on your ear when you put the item in there...that’s what I do with my customs 



Slater said:


> No flex on my ZS7.
> 
> There should be no flex, as it has a front vent. So if you’re getting flex, it would indicate an issue with the front vent (like its clogged or just that it’s being covered up by the skin of your ear).
> 
> You can try holding your mouth open while you insert the ZS7. Or you can try foam tips. Both of those will help with driver flex.


----------



## VICosPhi (Apr 28, 2019)

Folly said:


> how about ZS10 pro vs Kanas pro?



Most people will likely disagree with me here, but I am just going to state what I experienced when compared ZS10 Pros to Kanas Pros. I prefer ZS10 Pro's sound signature over Kanas Pro.

I did A/B test between Kanas Pro and ZS10 pro and noticed the ZS10 pro had more "impactful sound". The hybrid design does help in creating a more lively sound in my opinion. They both sound like they are tuned to be neutral. Kanas Pro has a single DLC DD(corrected earlier typo as @tgx78 pointed out) and yet it sounds very good, but the impact I could get in ZS10 Pro, I could only get 80% of that impact in Kanas Pros.

Kanas Pro has very good sub and mid bass despite the sound signature being so neutral, but it just would not hit the sub bass lows that ZS10 did while at the same time, maintaining the sweetness in treble. Mid bass was better on Kanas, Sub bass was better on ZS10, Treble was slightly better on ZS10. Mids seemed equally forward on both. Clarity wise they are both equal and you would not feel like you are missing anything unless you A/B them. If a song has extreme Stereo effect, Kanas seemed to provide slightly better Stereo representation vs ZS10, and their(Kanas Pros) recessed 2pin connector is perfect. These are the only two advantages I noticed with Kanas Pros.

I know Kanas pro are very highly regarded by everyone, but I am just stating what I heard. Sound is perceptive and that may explain why I did not see them providing any advantage over ZS10 Pros. Also, Kanas Pros cost 3x more than ZS10 Pro so that is interesting.


----------



## tgx78 (Apr 28, 2019)

VICosPhi said:


> Most people will likely disagree with me here, but I am just going to state what I experienced when compared ZS10 Pros to Kanas Pros. I prefer ZS10 Pro's sound signature over Kanas Pro.
> 
> I did A/B test between Kanas Pro and ZS10 pro and noticed the ZS10 pro had more "impactful sound". The hybrid design does help in creating a more lively sound in my opinion. They both sound like they are tuned to be neutral. Kanas Pro has a single BA and yet it sounds very good, but the impact I could get in ZS10 Pro, I could only get 80% of that impact in Kanas Pros.
> 
> ...


 

Kanas Pro has a DLC Dynamic driver not  single BA driver as you stated.


----------



## VICosPhi

tgx78 said:


> Kanas Pro has a DLC Dynamic driver not  single BA driver as you stated.


Sorry, that was a typo, I meant to say single DLC DD.


----------



## courierdriver (Apr 28, 2019)

KimChee said:


> I’ve done some extensive listening between the KZ ZS7 and KZ ZS10 Pro.  Let me just say first I’m not a fan of the memory wire on the ZS10 Pro.  It is way too loose and doesn’t hold the iem in place, fortunately I swapped the cable for another KZ cable I had in my collection.  Most of my testing was done with my Hidizs AP80, Lotoo Paw Gold, and Burson Soloist.
> 
> KZ10 Pro Sound
> 
> ...


Great review! Thanks for that. From what I can gather from it...I'm now leaning more towards the ZS7. It's just kinda ticking more of my boxes.


KimChee said:


> I’ve done some extensive listening between the KZ ZS7 and KZ ZS10 Pro.  Let me just say first I’m not a fan of the memory wire on the ZS10 Pro.  It is way too loose and doesn’t hold the iem in place, fortunately I swapped the cable for another KZ cable I had in my collection.  Most of my testing was done with my Hidizs AP80, Lotoo Paw Gold, and Burson Soloist.
> 
> KZ10 Pro Sound
> 
> ...


Damn...I'm still in a quandary. The biggest thing stopping me from buying ZS10 PRO  is the connectors and cable upgrade options. As much as I like the sound impressions of the Pro, I absolutely HATE the fact that I can't easily upgrade the cable, cause of that weird C type connection method. You got me leaning towards the 7. I know that I could get a 0.78 balanced to fit, and a got one just ready to use. The 7 wouldn't need me to buy an upgraded cable,  since I already have one. So now my question is...is the 7 smaller than the ZS10 Pro, and which has the longer stem/nozzle?


----------



## courierdriver

VICosPhi said:


> Most people will likely disagree with me here, but I am just going to state what I experienced when compared ZS10 Pros to Kanas Pros. I prefer ZS10 Pro's sound signature over Kanas Pro.
> 
> I did A/B test between Kanas Pro and ZS10 pro and noticed the ZS10 pro had more "impactful sound". The hybrid design does help in creating a more lively sound in my opinion. They both sound like they are tuned to be neutral. Kanas Pro has a single DLC DD(corrected earlier typo as @tgx78 pointed out) and yet it sounds very good, but the impact I could get in ZS10 Pro, I could only get 80% of that impact in Kanas Pros.
> 
> ...


Thank you for 2 things. First, this is exactly what I've been looking for...a KPE owner who has both that and the KZ ZS10 PRO. I appreciate you posting your views. Second, (even though I don't share your opinion on the KPE...I'm one who holds this iem in highest regard), I applaud your courage to state that you like the ZS10 PRO more. That's exactly what I have been looking to read. I'm looking for an iem that's less expensive than the KPE, but still sounds good, with a slightly different sound sig for everyday use on the go. I still hate that KZ has all these weird 0.75 2 pin configurations, but your views have me now leaning towards the ZS10 PRO, instead of the ZS7. The 10 Pro is more expensive when I add in the balanced upgrade cable, but I'm thinking the sound might be more for what I'm looking for.


----------



## VICosPhi (Apr 28, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Thank you for 2 things. First, this is exactly what I've been looking for...a KPE owner who has both that and the KZ ZS10 PRO. I appreciate you posting your views. Second, (even though I don't share your opinion on the KPE...I'm one who holds this iem in highest regard), I applaud your courage to state that you like the ZS10 PRO more. That's exactly what I have been looking to read. I'm looking for an iem that's less expensive than the KPE, but still sounds good, with a slightly different sound sig for everyday use on the go. I still hate that KZ has all these weird 0.75 2 pin configurations, but your views have me now leaning towards the ZS10 PRO, instead of the ZS7. The 10 Pro is more expensive when I add in the balanced upgrade cable, but I'm thinking the sound might be more for what I'm looking for.



Glad to hear. If you like Kanas Pros a lot, then ZS10 Pro have a sound signature closer to KP than ZS7.

Yes I am still not pleased about that non-standard 2-pin C type connector, but since I will likely use this mostly to listen lossy streaming Spotify music over Bluetooth(using ES100 LDAC or 2pin C type Bluetooth v5 cable from KZ next month), I guess cable upgrade will not bring a lot of benefits to me. In a couple months I want to try out FH7 by Fiio. Their 13mm DD sounds intriguing, even though its not pure Beryllium. And they use standard MMCx connectors so aftermarket cables will not be an issue. DM7 also looks intriguing(also use standard MMCx connectors) but they lack DD and I am not sure if BA will be able to produce the sub bass on same level as KP or ZS7

The sound is good enough on ZS10 Pros for gym and day to day use. ZS7 for some reason would give me fatigue after long listening hours. Kanas and ZS10 Pros I can listen for hours with very minimal fatigue.


----------



## courierdriver

VICosPhi said:


> Glad to hear. If you like Kanas Pros a lot, then ZS10 Pro have a sound signature closer to KP than ZS7.
> 
> Yes I am still not pleased about that non-standard 2-pin C type connector, but since I will likely use this mostly to listen lossy streaming Spotify music over Bluetooth(using ES100 LDAC or 2pin C type Bluetooth v5 cable from KZ next month), I guess cable upgrade will not bring a lot of benefits to me. In a couple months I want to try out FH7 by Fiio. Their 13mm DD sounds intriguing, even though its not pure Beryllium. And they use standard MMCx connectors so aftermarket cables will not be an issue. DM7 also looks intriguing(also use standard MMCx connectors) but they lack DD and I am not sure if BA will be able to produce the sub bass on same level as KP or ZS7
> 
> The sound is good enough on ZS10 Pros for gym and day to day use. ZS7 for some reason would give me fatigue after long listening hours. Kanas and ZS10 Pros I can listen for hours with very minimal fatigue.


Sigh...you are making it harder on my wallet, but for me, the truth is I really want a less expensive version of the KPE. My "financial head" says just get a KS7 for less than $50 CDN from Aliexpress and that's it (I already have a 2.5 balanced cable that would fit). My heart (which says I probably won't be happy with anything that won't at least give me the sound quality of the Kanas Pro), says spend the extra $40 CDN and get the ZS10 PRO with balanced cable that fits. Guess I'm going with the more expensive option. My heart rules my head...I'm such a sucker


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

anindyameister said:


> KZ launched bluetooth cable with CSR8675 chipset. APTx-HD support over BT 5.0 for $26 !!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/KZ-Aptx-HD-CSR8675-Bluetooth-Module-Earphone-5-0-Wireless-Upgrade-Cable-Applies-Original-Headphones-AS10ZSTZSNProZS10Pro/



This cable looks eerily similar to Tenhz BT cable. Can it be a rehashed version of the same?


----------



## mikp

Dani157 said:


> This cable looks eerily similar to Tenhz BT cable. Can it be a rehashed version of the same?



The KZ HD Bluetooth Module looks interesting, but based on my experience I would not buy the first version without customer feedback.
On the third try I got a proper working kz apt-x module.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Obviously. Patience is the name of the game here.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 29, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> My "financial head" says just get a KS7 for less than $50 CDN from Aliexpress and that's it (I already have a 2.5 balanced cable that would fit). My heart (which says I probably won't be happy with anything that won't at least give me the sound quality of the Kanas Pro), says spend the extra $40 CDN and get the ZS10 PRO with balanced cable that fits. Guess I'm going with the more expensive option.


I read someone say here that the ZS10 Pro and ZS10 aren't much different?

From the recent comments it sounds like they are wrong?


----------



## zazaboy (Apr 29, 2019)

@VICosPhi how good is the kz zs10 pro instrument seperation and soundstage and are they easy to drive from smartphone compared to kanas pro?

@B9Scrambler do you think its a safe bet to get kz zs10 pro if for use multiple genre with bad mastered tracks for minimal treble issues if you compare to other kz iems and cca iems?


----------



## B9Scrambler

zazaboy said:


> @B9Scrambler do you think its a safe bet to get kz zs10 pro if for use multiple genre with bad mastered tracks for minimal treble issues if you compare to other kz iems and cca iems?



Nope. I'd personally want something warmer and less revealing for that. ZSN Pro. CCA C10. TRN V30. etc.


----------



## KimChee

They are similar in size the pro10 is a little bit less chunky...nozzle length is pretty similar...they use the same .75 pin connector if that’s what I think you’re asking.  There’s a plethora of upgrade cables on the cheap thread,  I like the cable 130, but it cost more than the 7 or 10 pro lol



courierdriver said:


> Great review! Thanks for that. From what I can gather from it...I'm now leaning more towards the ZS7. It's just kinda ticking more of my boxes.
> 
> Damn...I'm still in a quandary. The biggest thing stopping me from buying ZS10 PRO  is the connectors and cable upgrade options. As much as I like the sound impressions of the Pro, I absolutely HATE the fact that I can't easily upgrade the cable, cause of that weird C type connection method. You got me leaning towards the 7. I know that I could get a 0.78 balanced to fit, and a got one just ready to use. The 7 wouldn't need me to buy an upgraded cable,  since I already have one. So now my question is...is the 7 smaller than the ZS10 Pro, and which has the longer stem/nozzle?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Apr 29, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Great review! Thanks for that. From what I can gather from it...I'm now leaning more towards the ZS7. It's just kinda ticking more of my boxes.
> 
> Damn...I'm still in a quandary. The biggest thing stopping me from buying ZS10 PRO  is the connectors and cable upgrade options. As much as I like the sound impressions of the Pro, I absolutely HATE the fact that I can't easily upgrade the cable, cause of that weird C type connection method. You got me leaning towards the 7. I know that I could get a 0.78 balanced to fit, and a got one just ready to use. The 7 wouldn't need me to buy an upgraded cable,  since I already have one. So now my question is...is the 7 smaller than the ZS10 Pro, and which has the longer stem/nozzle?



That upgrade cable with the C type connection has choices for the type of plug you want...not just balanced.

I really like the connector.


----------



## KimChee

Just another side note, the cable that came out when the ZS6 came out greatly improves space, clarity and layering on the KZ ZS7.  Has little effect on pro10


----------



## neo_styles

KimChee said:


> Just another side note, the cable that came out when the ZS6 came out greatly improves space, clarity and layering on the KZ ZS7.  Has little effect on pro10


I'll have to keep that in mind. Have probably used that cable for a grand total of a few days. Really do like how tangle-resistant it is and I'm suprised it hasn't greened over yet.


----------



## archdawg (May 14, 2019)

Vaporized


----------



## KimChee

I’m going to go as far as to say the cable put the ZS7 on par with Pro10 as far as technical abilities with the more aggressive sound and deeper bass.  I’m pretty sure I bought that cable for $11 shipped back when the ZS6 came out, and knock on wood it hasn’t deep sixed and turned green yet.  I rarely use it I keep my spare Z6 at my desk for an emergency and figured I’d try it on the ZS7...


----------



## KimChee (Apr 29, 2019)

Guys my KZ10Pro+KZ ZS6 are up for sale if you’re interested.  Already burned in and I’m located in the US

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-zs10pro-kz-zs6.905616/


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> They are similar in size the pro10 is a little bit less chunky...nozzle length is pretty similar...they use the same .75 pin connector if that’s what I think you’re asking.  There’s a plethora of upgrade cables on the cheap thread,  I like the cable 130, but it cost more than the 7 or 10 pro lol


I think I'm just gonna splurge a bit then and get the ZS10 PRO with the balanced cable that @mbwilson recd. I like that 10 pro is less chunky and might fit me better. If it doesn't work out for me and the fit is poor, I can always sell them and get something else. Thanks for all your input...its helped me come to a decision so I will pull the plug tomorrow and order them from Aliexpress.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> That upgrade cable with the C type connection has choices for the type of plug you want...not just balanced.
> 
> I really like the connector.


Yeah, I know; but I'm specifically looking for a 2.5mm balanced plug so I can run the iems from the balanced output on my portable dac amp. Thanks for the rec on that cable too, btw. I found the seller on Aliexpress and it's in my cart waiting to be bought tomorrow when I get paid. I'm also happy to see that this cable has a chin slider, which I find useful for retaining a secure fit.


----------



## moisespr123 (Apr 29, 2019)

Received the KZ ZS10 Pro today. They are revealing! I find them to separate instruments better than the KZ ZS7, but it does not have the same bass punch as the ZS7. Overall, the tonality is great and it's kind of "balanced" but "bright" on the mids. I can also hear more the "Tss" in the instruments. vocals are clearer too.

It also makes a perfect fit with my TRN BT20. Finally I can use them without having the IEM fall from my ears


----------



## KimChee

You pretty much encapsulated my thoughts in less words 



moisespr123 said:


> Received the KZ ZS10 Pro today. They are revealing! I find them to separate instruments better than the KZ ZS7, but it does not have the same bass punch as the ZS7. Overall, the tonality is great and it's kind of "balanced" but "bright" on the mids. I can also hear more the "Tss" in the instruments. vocals are clearer too.
> 
> It also makes a perfect fit with my TRN BT20. Finally I can use them without having the IEM fall from my ears


----------



## moisespr123

KimChee said:


> You pretty much encapsulated my thoughts in less words



Honestly, so far, I'm enjoying the sound of the ZS10 Pro more than the KZ ZS7. Their bright highs are something that I like. But also the bass altough not as punchy as the KZ ZS7, it's nice to have to complement the highs. They also don't seem to hurt my ears, both physically and when it comes to the highs.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I read someone say here that the ZS10 Pro and ZS10 aren't much different?
> 
> From the recent comments it sounds like they are wrong?


I can't say, since I currently don't own either of them. From what I have read though, it seems like the Pro has better bass, is more mid forward and has slightly better articulation in the treble. Price difference isn't that much (like, $20 maybe) so why not go with the latest fresh set? I'm just looking for a good set of iems that will complement my Kanas Pro for about $50, but won't break my wallet if they get damaged while I'm on the bus. I'm not looking for the KS10 PRO to be my "endgame" earphone...just looking for something cheaper than my KPE as a daily driver.


----------



## KimChee (Apr 29, 2019)

I prefer a more aggressive sound so came to the opposite conclusion, and prefer the ZS7.  I added the SPC upgrade cable and it added more detail, space, and layering so I’m more than happy now with my ZS7, sold the 10 Pro and am looking to get a more clinical sounding iem like the CCA C16 to round out my collection now.  I am also getting my Plussound X8 Silver/Gold cable back from retermination, so I will have my Roxanne back and I can do more critical listening and comparisons. I figure I will get the CCA20 when it comes out later...ugh it never ends...but it has been a fun journey, and I for one love the Chi-Fi offerings...it’s really pushing the envelope of sound quality at a very affordable price point...

I love the KZ ZS7 as my daily driver and I really don’t feel like I’m making any compromises which is amazing for day to day listening



moisespr123 said:


> Honestly, so far, I'm enjoying the sound of the ZS10 Pro more than the KZ ZS7. Their bright highs are something that I like. But also the bass altough not as punchy as the KZ ZS7, it's nice to have to complement the highs. They also don't seem to hurt my ears, both physically and when it comes to the highs.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

moisespr123 said:


> Honestly, so far, I'm enjoying the sound of the ZS10 Pro more than the KZ ZS7. Their bright highs are something that I like. But also the bass altough not as punchy as the KZ ZS7, it's nice to have to complement the highs. They also don't seem to hurt my ears, both physically and when it comes to the highs.


You like the bright highs on the ZS10 Pro? Wow, I thought the highs on the ZS7 were too much, or almost too much. And, you like even brighter...


----------



## VICosPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You like the bright highs on the ZS10 Pro? Wow, I thought the highs on the ZS7 were too much, or almost too much. And, you like even brighter...


The highs on ZS7 were a little fatiguing to me as well. I like ZS10 pro highs better. Bass seemed better to me on ZS10 pros however.


----------



## randomnin

Mybutthurts said:


> Can I ask what make / model is the IEM with Chinese characters on...it looks cool even for an old sod like me.


That's Japanese, saying "it doesn't end!!"



antdroid said:


> Just got the KZ ZS10 Pro in for review from Linsoul. It’s actually not a bad sounding IEM! I found the ZSN Pro too bright, but this one is just slightly less bright from initial hearing impressions. The treble sounded slightly grainy, but not bad for this price. Then measured it afterward and seems to go with my hearing.
> 
> Here’s my quick and dirty measurements with ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro


Why did they make that 3kHz trough in the recent models? Used to be flatter in a lot of older ones. The usual post-4kHz trough, though, is narrower. But the mid-bass bleed looks present as always. Oh well, maybe next time.


----------



## KimChee

The ZS10 Pro highs are more laid back, just as detailed if not more so and darker and not as energetic as the 7s imo..



LaughMoreDaily said:


> You like the bright highs on the ZS10 Pro? Wow, I thought the highs on the ZS7 were too much, or almost too much. And, you like even brighter...


----------



## Mybutthurts

ZS10 Pro arrived this morning and straight out of the box... I like it.

A bit like the AS10 sound wise, with the dynamic drive it has more bass to it.
It's lost that dark sound that goes with the original ZS10, vocals are now forward in the mix.

Physically, it's lighter and smaller than the original, new C type connection is nice and is usual KZ quality.

IHMO. I don't see it as subtle upgrade on the original, more a complete rebuild.

Anyways I like it and think its my new main iem.

I'll see how it sounds after a few days burn in.


----------



## moisespr123

And... This night the new KZ AptX HD cable shipped!


----------



## Slater

I wonder how KZ feels about Tiandirenhe stealing their...oh wait lol


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> I wonder how KZ feels about Tiandirenhe stealing their...oh wait lol



LOL .... 

That looks like PHB EM 023shell mashed with a ZS6 top cover !


----------



## Mellowship

Been away for some time from this forum and took my time with all the kzs I own. Last bought was AS10... Or ZSN. Both great. 
But I'm in the condition to elect my all time favourite. 

Drumroll...

The ZS5v1. 

Damn. I keep getting in love with these. They like power, but I discovered that with the KZ USBC cable they can sing almost as well as when plugged into a dedicated amp. That's good. It mean I can take them with me anywhere, even in my lunch break.


----------



## Caipirina

Mellowship said:


> Been away for some time from this forum and took my time with all the kzs I own. Last bought was AS10... Or ZSN. Both great.
> But I'm in the condition to elect my all time favourite.
> 
> Drumroll...
> ...



Interesting, I have been on a break from buying every hyped new IEM for a while as well and just recently went through all my KZs again ... when I got the ZS5v1 (in that big fancy box and pre-sale discount) I was actually rather disappointed ... but I guess my ears have grown up (old?) a bit and I am appreciating them way more now! 

My last KZ purchase was the ZSR which I like for being quite a 'fun' listening experience. 

And I have to admit that getting the TRN BT20 made me dig up and listen to all my KZs (and one TRN) again


----------



## khighly

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You like the bright highs on the ZS10 Pro? Wow, I thought the highs on the ZS7 were too much, or almost too much. And, you like even brighter...


My ZS7's are really dark, as well as a friends pair I've tried. ZSN Pro extends much higher and is much brighter, which I very much welcome in newer KZ models and would really like to see the ZSN Pro highs in a ZS7 Pro.


----------



## VICosPhi

moisespr123 said:


> And... This night the new KZ AptX HD cable shipped!



Got the shipping notification as well. Wondering if this will support APTX as my phone does not have APTX HD. I know it supports AAC


----------



## moisespr123

VICosPhi said:


> Got the shipping notification as well. Wondering if this will support APTX as my phone does not have APTX HD. I know it supports AAC



It should. AptX is standard in Qualcomm's Bluetooth chips, so if the phone doesn't support AptX HD it should use AptX. Mine also does not support AptX HD, but Avantree will release a USB AptX HD transmitter soon so that would be nice to use.


----------



## Nimweth

khighly said:


> My ZS7's are really dark, as well as a friends pair I've tried. ZSN Pro extends much higher and is much brighter, which I very much welcome in newer KZ models and would really like to see the ZSN Pro highs in a ZS7 Pro.


That's weird. With my equipment and ears, I find the ZS7 bright and clear with a lively presence region. The highs are clean and not harsh. I certainly would not describe them as 'dark'. They are among my favourite IEMs especially for electronic music.


----------



## khighly

Nimweth said:


> That's weird. With my equipment and ears, I find the ZS7 bright and clear with a lively presence region. The highs are clean and not harsh. I certainly would not describe them as 'dark'. They are among my favourite IEMs especially for electronic music.


I didn't say they were bad, they're also my favorite KZ, but they're so much darker than ZS10, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS6, etc. They're even darker than the AS10 doing back to back comparisons.


----------



## Makahl

khighly said:


> My ZS7's are really dark, as well as a friends pair I've tried. ZSN Pro extends much higher and is much brighter, which I very much welcome in newer KZ models and would really like to see the ZSN Pro highs in a ZS7 Pro.



Out of curiosity, did you try the ZS7 wired or only using the BT gear in your signature? foam tips? Might I'm wrong and I didn't try the newest codecs but so far I think BT modules have the tendency to warm up the sound quite a bit and treble extension is shorter when compared to wired in a decent amp/dac.


----------



## voicemaster

Makahl said:


> Out of curiosity, did you try the ZS7 wired or only using the BT gear in your signature? foam tips? Might I'm wrong and I didn't try the newest codecs but so far I think BT modules have the tendency to warm up the sound quite a bit and treble extension is shorter when compared to wired in a decent amp/dac.



Yes, I agree that BT does reduce the treble and bass extension.


----------



## durwood

khighly said:


> I didn't say they were bad, they're also my favorite KZ, but they're so much darker than ZS10, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS6, etc. They're even darker than the AS10 doing back to back comparisons.



The ZS7 is my favorite KZ out of the current models (ZSN, ZS6, AS10, ZS10). It's actually my go to IEM right now for everyday use. I can totally understand the reference to the other models but my subjective opinion is that I would call the highs delicate vs dark.
Dark - A tonal balance that tilts downwards with increasing frequency. Opposite of bright. Weak high frequencies.
Delicate - High frequencies extending to 15 or 20 kHz without peaks.

My version of dark would be the Nicehck P3 so it's all relative.

They extend pretty well, but not like say the ****. Compared to the overdone treble on the ZS6, they can sound  lacking if switching back and forth. The AS10, ZSN can come off as too much lower treble boost but again that is just how I feel. I would have to pull out my ZS10 to compare to the ZS7 since it has been a while. I do wish the ZS7 had a bit more shimmer up top (just a little +3-4db), I would be totally happy and it would be a solid 8 out of 10 if that happened.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Nimweth said:


> That's weird. With my equipment and ears, I find the ZS7 bright and clear with a lively presence region. The highs are clean and not harsh. I certainly would not describe them as 'dark'. They are among my favourite IEMs especially for electronic music.


the zs7 is warmer and more smoothed over/less sharp in the treble than other kz hybrids, so i could see them being described as "dark" by comparison; however because bass is tight and bloom-free they sound clear and unveiled, so maybe "dark and clean" is apt?


----------



## Nimweth

khighly said:


> I didn't say they were bad, they're also my favorite KZ, but they're so much darker than ZS10, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS6, etc. They're even darker than the AS10 doing back to back comparisons.


Yes, they are my favourite KZ as well, I did have the ZS10 but didn't like them, I found them too harsh in the treble.


----------



## Nimweth

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs7 is warmer and more smoothed over/less sharp in the treble than other kz hybrids, so i could see them being described as "dark" by comparison; however because bass is tight and bloom-free they sound clear and unveiled, so maybe "dark and clean" is apt?


Yes, I suppose that's fair enough, they end up being well balanced.


----------



## Aevum

i just got my KZ APTX bluetooth cable

Reception is crap, it cuts out all the time. 

think that the HD version will be better ?


----------



## khighly (Apr 30, 2019)

Makahl said:


> Out of curiosity, did you try the ZS7 wired or only using the BT gear in your signature? foam tips? Might I'm wrong and I didn't try the newest codecs but so far I think BT modules have the tendency to warm up the sound quite a bit and treble extension is shorter when compared to wired in a decent amp/dac.


Yes, everything also gets tried on the schitt modi and the headphone amp I built. As someone pointed out above, these are dark/warm for KZ's. I mostly have KZ's, so really what I mean is, it's dark compared to KZ's other offerings.


----------



## khighly

Aevum said:


> i just got my KZ APTX bluetooth cable
> 
> Reception is crap, it cuts out all the time.
> 
> think that the HD version will be better ?



Yeah that version is not worth the money. TRN's offerings are pretty rock solid as long as they come wired in phase.


----------



## Trisse

I got my kz zs7 along with a trn 8 core cable today. How do i know if i connect the cable in phase? It's no markings on the cable.


----------



## Superluc

You can try and test them https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## moisespr123

I also think I can describe the ZS10 Pro as being airy. Not sure if that's the correct term to describe what I'm feeling, but it seems to be airy


----------



## voicemaster

Aevum said:


> i just got my KZ APTX bluetooth cable
> 
> Reception is crap, it cuts out all the time.
> 
> think that the HD version will be better ?



KZ bluetooth cable has always been crappy. The connection is bad with their cable. Get TRN bluetooth cable instead.


----------



## KimChee

ZS10 Pro is def airy and has good soundstage


----------



## Slater

Trisse said:


> I got my kz zs7 along with a trn 8 core cable today. How do i know if i connect the cable in phase? It's no markings on the cable.



Check the link my signature friend


----------



## courierdriver

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs7 is warmer and more smoothed over/less sharp in the treble than other kz hybrids, so i could see them being described as "dark" by comparison; however because bass is tight and bloom-free they sound clear and unveiled, so maybe "dark and clean" is apt?


I don't own this set, but I really like this description. I might get the ZS7 in a month or 2, to compare with my newly purchased and on the way, ZS10 PRO.


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> ZS10 Pro is def airy and has good soundstage


That's a plus for me...I love me some good stage in my earphones


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> I prefer a more aggressive sound so came to the opposite conclusion, and prefer the ZS7.  I added the SPC upgrade cable and it added more detail, space, and layering so I’m more than happy now with my ZS7, sold the 10 Pro and am looking to get a more clinical sounding iem like the CCA C16 to round out my collection now.  I am also getting my Plussound X8 Silver/Gold cable back from retermination, so I will have my Roxanne back and I can do more critical listening and comparisons. I figure I will get the CCA20 when it comes out later...ugh it never ends...but it has been a fun journey, and I for one love the Chi-Fi offerings...it’s really pushing the envelope of sound quality at a very affordable price point...
> 
> I love the KZ ZS7 as my daily driver and I really don’t feel like I’m making any compromises which is amazing for day to day listening


You definitely present a good case for the ZS7, for sure. I just ordered the ZS10 Pro (as well as the balanced cable that @mbwilson111 recd). Once I've had the chance to spend some time with this combo, I'd be curious to try the ZS7 also. Until then, I sure like how you are describing the 7, though. I think it will make it into my iem collection at some point.


----------



## stryed

KZ ZS5v2 might be a tad sibilant on some recordings but the soundstage with some trinkly highs are very enjoyable.  KZ ZS7 having recessed treble is nothing new, but being called dark is surprising...added to that the decreased soundstage, I might wonder why I shoudln't go for the KZ6 instead!
Anyway, happy with my **** and am willing to wait a little for a significant upgrade. I'm in no rush.


----------



## carltonh

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I read someone say here that the ZS10 Pro and ZS10 aren't much different?
> 
> From the recent comments it sounds like they are wrong?



I think they are much more different than the ZSN and ZSN Pro difference. Mainly in the 2 KHz and 6 KHz range. Perhaps that could be the cause of the details and soundstage being slightly bigger in my ears in the original ZS10, but because of fit issues, probably not for many people.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

stryed said:


> Anyway, happy with my **** and am willing to wait a little for a significant upgrade. I'm in no rush.


The ZS7 is an upgrade over the **** by a long margin.


----------



## Aevum

Ordered the APTX HD cable to see if its better then the normal one connection wise. 

Shame you cant crack it open and add a better antenna.


----------



## Nimweth

stryed said:


> KZ ZS5v2 might be a tad sibilant on some recordings but the soundstage with some trinkly highs are very enjoyable.  KZ ZS7 having recessed treble is nothing new, but being called dark is surprising...added to that the decreased soundstage, I might wonder why I shoudln't go for the KZ6 instead!
> Anyway, happy with my **** and am willing to wait a little for a significant upgrade. I'm in no rush.


I have the ZS7 and I don't find the treble recessed at all. The soundstage is also excellent (at least with my DAP) so you should enjoy them. I like them as much as I like the ****, which has a more "analogue" sound, if that makes sense.


----------



## rayliam80

I've been enjoying my ZS7 but a few weeks ago the glue/adhesive around the nozzle on the left earpiece worked it self loose. This is the first issue I've had with any KZ iems. I know I could just probably super glue it back but I wonder if there is a better glue/adhesive to use that may not clog what appears to be exposed BAs and the dynamic driver. And while this left nozzle is loose, has anyone tried removing the grills to see if there is an improvement?


----------



## KimChee

Crap sorry to hear that.  Worth a shot since you have it open, but I think it would increase the treble to ZS6 levels perhaps, but also increase overall detail.  Why mess with “perfection” lol jk.  



rayliam80 said:


> I've been enjoying my ZS7 but a few weeks ago the glue/adhesive around the nozzle on the left earpiece worked it self loose. This is the first issue I've had with any KZ iems. I know I could just probably super glue it back but I wonder if there is a better glue/adhesive to use that may not clog what appears to be exposed BAs and the dynamic driver. And while this left nozzle is loose, has anyone tried removing the grills to see if there is an improvement?


----------



## Slater (May 1, 2019)

rayliam80 said:


> I've been enjoying my ZS7 but a few weeks ago the glue/adhesive around the nozzle on the left earpiece worked it self loose. This is the first issue I've had with any KZ iems. I know I could just probably super glue it back but I wonder if there is a better glue/adhesive to use that may not clog what appears to be exposed BAs and the dynamic driver. And while this left nozzle is loose, has anyone tried removing the grills to see if there is an improvement?



Do *not* use super glue, or you will royally screw up your drivers. Super Glue gives off gas fumes as it cures, which will deposit on your drivers. It looks like a white crystalline haze.

Use a small amount of fast dry 2-part epoxy (preferably one made for metal, but the regular kind is OK).

Don’t use too much. A very thin layer is all you need, applied with a needle or toothpick. Make sure you clean off any old dried glue residue before applying the new stuff.


----------



## rayliam80

Slater said:


> Do *not* use super glue, or you will royally screw up your drivers. Super Glue gives off gas fumes as it cures, which will deposit on your drivers. It looks like a white crystalline haze.
> 
> Use a small amount of fast dry 2-part epoxy (preferably one made for metal, but the regular kind is OK).
> 
> Don’t use too much. A very thin layer is all you need, applied with a needle or toothpick. Make sure you clean off any old dried glue residue before applying the new stuff.



This is exactly why I asked! I knew you'd have a good answer. Anything I can pick up at Home Depot, etc that you know off-hand or recommend?


----------



## eclein

Slater I have Blue TRN IM1s (original version, has silver face plate). One side has an edge slightly lifting so its a matter of time before it bails out.
Should I use the same 2 part goo to reattach it?

Can you provide a link, name etc, so I can get some in?


----------



## shockdoc

I'm not Slater but personally I like Loctite and JB Weld epoxies for repairing my 'phones. WhatEVER you do, do NOT use Gorilla Glue...for ANYTHING! That stuff foams and expands and just makes a HUGE mess in general. I'm surprised they even still sell that and that there hasn't been a massive class-action lawsuit by people who used Gorilla Glue and ruined various projects.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use E8000 glue for all my iem and earbud repairs


----------



## eclein

Where is E 8000 sold?


----------



## HungryPanda (May 1, 2019)

Amazon, aliexpress, ebay

https://www.amazon.co.uk/E8000-Phon...1166&s=gateway&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-2


----------



## eclein

Thanks I’m sorry to be a pain, I shouldn’t have asked. We get everything there!
Caffeine is activated...lol


----------



## HungryPanda

no problem


----------



## Wiljen

loomisjohnson said:


> the zs7 is warmer and more smoothed over/less sharp in the treble than other kz hybrids, so i could see them being described as "dark" by comparison; however because bass is tight and bloom-free they sound clear and unveiled, so maybe "dark and clean" is apt?



To the man staring at the sun, the moon and stars seem dark and distant  

Very hard for me to see the Zs7 categorized as dark in any way unless referencing a direct comparison to Zs6.


----------



## moisespr123

I would not say they are dark. They are warmer for sure. Less bright, but has a pleasant sound. The KZ ZS10 Pro, on the other hand, is brighter, and I don't know, but I feel emptiness around the middle.


----------



## Deveraux (May 1, 2019)

Slater said:


> Someone who really didn’t understand the engineering behind an IEM started a untrue controversy that the 2 BA drivers were “fake” drivers in the ZS5. It is completely untrue however.
> 
> Besides openly admitting that he did it for YouTube views, it was also suspected that he had some sort of affiliation with someone who worked at CA (who were angry that it stole the shell design of the CA Andromeda). Nothing was ever proven about that though, but the damage was already done and people to this day still reference that totally inaccurate rumor.
> 
> The ZS5 was always a quad driver. 2xDD and 2xBA. Always was and still is.



Wow, I should've read better those times then. Would've avoided buying ES4 and ZSN then :| No wonder it sounds way better than those two.

Thank you for enlightening me.



KimChee said:


> There’s complicated protocols of white noise, pink noise, different types of music that people with speakers use and a few people follow, but anymore I just plug it into my computer put the music on shuffle and leave it on for 100 hrs sometimes 150 if I’m feeling it...



Burned in for almost 100 (maybe more) and still it sounds just a little worse than the v1. :/

The problem lies exactly in the 8Khz region, they sound cheap and harsh (just like Sony XB series). And there's much less clarity in it too (forgive me for using layman's terms, don't know how to explain it better). Maybe the highs are a little less for my liking? v1 has almost nil sibilance while providing excellent clarity (with slight eq).


Bass is amazing though! 10/10 for bass.


But seriously, how much should I spend to get something that blows the ZS5 v1 out of the park? All I need is ZS7 bass, better imaging and a little more airy presentation!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Popped out my ZSNs today to check on them and noticed that the real reason of their immense success is not in delivering perfect sound but they deliver an audio experience which makes you love music. The listening makes me think about the song and not about this zone is boosted or that's out of balance. Probably they serve the purpose which earphones are meant to serve.


----------



## mbwilson111

Dani157 said:


> Popped out my ZSNs today to check on them and noticed that the real reason of their immense success is not in delivering perfect sound but they deliver an audio experience which makes you love music. The listening makes me think about the song and not about this zone is boosted or that's out of balance. Probably they serve the purpose which earphones are meant to serve.



...and that is all I care about.  I do love the ZSNs... and others


----------



## Nimweth

Dani157 said:


> Popped out my ZSNs today to check on them and noticed that the real reason of their immense success is not in delivering perfect sound but they deliver an audio experience which makes you love music. The listening makes me think about the song and not about this zone is boosted or that's out of balance. Probably they serve the purpose which earphones are meant to serve.


I know exactly what you mean. I feel the same about my ZS7 and I think the CA4 might end up being the same. We can appreciate accuracy and technological excellence but as you say, it's the music that is important!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dani157 said:


> Popped out my ZSNs today to check on them and noticed that the real reason of their immense success is not in delivering perfect sound but they deliver an audio experience which makes you love music. The listening makes me think about the song and not about this zone is boosted or that's out of balance. Probably they serve the purpose which earphones are meant to serve.


Yep. If ZSN were a band they would be AC/DC. Raw,  gritty and super effing awesome! Not for everyone. And not all the time, but hard to not get energized when you hear them


----------



## crabdog

More of a side-grade but a great bargain regardless. My thoughts on it here: https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsn-pro-review/


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yep. If ZSN were a band they would be AC/DC. Raw,  gritty and super effing awesome! Not for everyone. And not all the time, but hard to not get energized when you hear them



Feel more like System of a down to me but I agree with you.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

mbwilson111 said:


> ...and that is all I care about.  I do love the ZSNs... and others



There are different ways to appreciate music. Nothing is wrong it's just different


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Nimweth said:


> I know exactly what you mean. I feel the same about my ZS7 and I think the CA4 might end up being the same. We can appreciate accuracy and technological excellence but as you say, it's the music that is important!



Intrigued by CA4 anyways. Will probably buy them in June sale. Have ordered KB100 this week so CA4 will take a backseat. This hobby of ours is eventually born out of music.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dani157 said:


> Feel more like System of a down to me but I agree with you.


That works.


----------



## Caipirina

Nimweth said:


> I feel the same about my ZS7 and I think the CA4 might end up being the same.



are those the CCA C04 you are referring to? I was looking at them for a while, but never really read anything about them ...


----------



## Nimweth

Caipirina said:


> are those the CCA C04 you are referring to? I was looking at them for a while, but never really read anything about them ...


No, they are a new design, the CA4, (1DD+1BA) with the new type connectors like the ZSN and an alloy faceplate.


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yep. If ZSN were a band they would be AC/DC. Raw,  gritty and super effing awesome! Not for everyone. And not all the time, but hard to not get energized when you hear them


you know, not being a graph-head i find it  helpful to analogize an iem to a band.  i hear the zsn more as exile-era stones, but i take your point.


----------



## Slater (May 1, 2019)

rayliam80 said:


> This is exactly why I asked! I knew you'd have a good answer. Anything I can pick up at Home Depot, etc that you know off-hand or recommend?



For most general uses, I use cheap generic 5-minute 2-part epoxy from Harbor Freight. It’s crystal clear, sets up in a few minutes, and only costs a few bucks. The tubes are cheap and eventually leak, so after a while I just pitch them and get a fresh batch since it’s so cheap.

You don’t want Gorilla Glue type stuff, as it foams and expands as it dries. It’s also a nasty yellowish tan color.

I’m sure Home Depot would have plain old quick setting 5-minute 2-part epoxy in clear. Most likely Loctite brand, as that’s what they seem to carry a lot of in their glue area.

Also, as Panda said, E8000 is good generic glue as well. It’s a 1 part adhesive (not 2-part), so it’s easier to use. But it’s not as strong as 2-part epoxy.


----------



## Aparker2005

As16 ordered!


----------



## msz87 (May 1, 2019)

received my kz zsn pros today. my unprofessional, not super trained thoughts.

its just meh. maybe a 2.5/5 beacuse I generally dont enjoy them overall. (but I do appreciate what they're giving people for the money)

the good: they get louder than my previous kz units which could be good for someone without a dac or amp for general everyday use. they offer some analytical depth in the upper mids and highs but to critique it, not in a balanced way. they stay in your ears pretty well.. build quality of the actual headpiece units seem solid. value of budget iems performance are always superb compared to on/overears so cant complain about that.

the bad: dont put the included tips in your ears, they smell like some nasty chemical. The sub is strong but quite a bit muddy, Im actually sometimes down for inflated bass frequencies, but these dont provide any utility. the lower mids are the worst part about this iem, it shows no resolution or length in turn, the treble seems emphasized and unbalanced and is a stop gap between the bass. the included cable doesnt seem very good, seems to tangle easily and it reeks. overall, I definetly wouldn't buy again, ill wait a few more years to see what budget offerings they have again. although, Im waiting on some foam tips, ill give them some more whirling when they arrive.



question: now that someone read my review, does anyone have anything to recommend to me?Looking for something very analytical, linear and balanced, sensitivity in-tact with the zsn pros with no mud with good price to performance ratio.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

loomisjohnson said:


> you know, not being a graph-head i find it  helpful to analogize an iem to a band.  i hear the zsn more as exile-era stones, but i take your point.


That works too for sure! HAHA!


----------



## HungryPanda

msz87 said:


> received my kz zsn pros today. my unprofessional, not super trained thoughts.
> 
> its just meh. maybe a 2.5/5 beacuse I generally dont enjoy them overall. (but I do appreciate what they're giving people for the money)
> 
> ...


 I think they need to be burned in for some hours to settle, Also coming straight from a more neutral sounding iem, earbud or headphone these can be bass heavy


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> For most general uses, I use cheap generic 5-minute 2-part epoxy from Harbor Freight. It’s crystal clear, sets up in a few minutes, and only costs a few bucks. The tubes are cheap and eventually leak, so after a while I just pitch them and get a fresh batch since it’s so cheap.
> 
> You don’t want Gorilla Glue type stuff, as it foams and expands as it dries. It’s also a nasty yellowish tan color.
> 
> ...



You forgot to include protective eye wear, just in case a screw or solder wire piece flies at you.


----------



## Grayes (May 1, 2019)

any recommend for a wide range sound stage, detail, which one should I choose from kz line, is it ZS10 is the best for that kind of sound?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

rayliam80 said:


> I've been enjoying my ZS7 but a few weeks ago the glue/adhesive around the nozzle on the left earpiece worked it self loose.


How does it compare to the Ibasso IT01 you also own?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Grayes said:


> any recommend for a wide range sound stage, detail, which one should I choose from kz line, is it ZS10 is the best for that kind of sound?


Check my signature.


----------



## Caipirina

Aparker2005 said:


> As16 ordered!



125$? or any specials out there? Probably still beyond my pain threshold 

Looking fwd to your impressions


----------



## Aparker2005

Caipirina said:


> 125$? or any specials out there? Probably still beyond my pain threshold
> 
> Looking fwd to your impressions



There's a seller on Ali that had a $90 special


----------



## maxxevv

Caipirina said:


> 125$? or any specials out there? Probably still beyond my pain threshold
> 
> Looking fwd to your impressions



The CCA C16 was about that price when launched.  I paid just under US$80/- for the C16 during the March sale when coupled with coupons and discounts.  
I would think the AS16 follows the same trajectory during the June sales (or when it comes along).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 1, 2019)

Delete


----------



## pbui44 (May 1, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just read that someone thinks the R**on**t QT5 is better than the CCA C10. Have any of you heard it? I'm not familiar with R**on**t.





Edit: Okay, now I can tell you why: read @Slater signature on companies that you cannot mention.


----------



## TechnoidFR

LuckLZ Audio Store sell 1 week before the beginning the as16 ! 10 only
https://twitter.com/lucky52143915/status/1123606391921315841?s=19

For the moment no info on the intern part. Just one photo and it's all !
90$ but seems as10 Shell so I think that have different driver but which ?

I'm back on CCA C16 for the moment and they are very awesome ! I'll compare these two iems but I think they will be awesome too


----------



## nxnje

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Delete


I'm not gonna write the name of the banned IEMs here as they're banned and i do not wanna publish their name. 
If you want to know more about the ones you're searching, i have a more stuff on my website where you can find what you search for.
You can find it in my signature. 
Sadly there are many earphones i would love to talk about here, but they're not welcome here in this forum and you can see why in @Slater infos.


----------



## rayliam80

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How does it compare to the Ibasso IT01 you also own?



Ibasso IT01 vs KZ ZS7

Auvio Medium Wide Bore tips
Macbook Pro -> IFI Nano BL -> Line out -> Liquid Spark Amp
Volume set to just under 9 o’clock with high impedance switch engaged (moderately loud)
Impression:

The difference that immediately jumps out at me is the mids. IT01 is thicker and ZS7 is thinner throughout the midrange presentation. Bass feels more punchy on the ZS7. Treble and mids feel sharper on the ZS7 not as smooth as the IT01 . ZS7 sounds more airy with slightly better instrument separation. IT01 sounds more cohesive, richer (lush) overall but slightly darker too. Soundstage feels a little bit smaller with the IT01, larger overall with the ZS7. Detail retrieval seems to be similar between the two.  ZS7 seems to be slightly more sensitive (louder). And fit wise, for me, the ZS7 is more comfortable in my ear. 

Test track: Pixies - Surfer Rosa - Where is My Mind? (CD Flac Rip)

Overall, I think the IT01 is a better IEM because, to me, it sounds more natural and reminds me in some ways of a pair of decent bookshelf speakers. I know that it’s a stretch to compare bookshelf speakers to IEMs but I feel like I’m getting a sound presentation with the IT01 that is more cohesive, glued together and tuned better. 

At the same time, I really like the ZS7, along with with ZS10 and ZS6, for movies, non-vocal music (classical, electronic/ambient) and hip hop/modern pop music for the more expansive soundstage and fun factor. I prefer the IT01 (and for those looking at my signature, the Massdrop x Noble which is a step up imho) for acoustic, indie pop/punk/rock, classic rock type music.


----------



## Podster (May 2, 2019)

Slater said:


> For most general uses, I use cheap generic 5-minute 2-part epoxy from Harbor Freight. It’s crystal clear, sets up in a few minutes, and only costs a few bucks. The tubes are cheap and eventually leak, so after a while I just pitch them and get a fresh batch since it’s so cheap.
> 
> You don’t want Gorilla Glue type stuff, as it foams and expands as it dries. It’s also a nasty yellowish tan color.
> 
> ...



Good call, really enjoyed your Vid Review on the CCA 10 on Drop

@rayliam80 , I should hope the IT01 is better it's roughly twice the price right?


----------



## KimChee

Got my Plussound X8 Silver/Gold back from retermination...Will burn it in more and do detailed comparisons with Roxanne after a bit...


----------



## hsdrggr (May 2, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I am waiting for people to chime in on the ZS10 Pro. I thought the C10 was the upgrade to the ZS10. How many times can you use the same 5 drivers in the same shell and sound different? Im interested.


The ZS10 Pro is so good that I just ordered 3 more sets from Linsoul while they are still $40.
I’m not getting into writing a huge review because I just don’t do that. I probably have 20 sets of IEMs and 11 pairs of cans. Also I refuse to spend over $200 for an IEM, unless someone gives me a set to review. I give away several IEMs to my kids and friends regularly. Based on the limited feedback on the ZS10 Pro and ridiculously low price I figured I’d give them a try. I am SO IMPRESSED!
Easily the best sub $150 IEM I have listened too. And it gives many good sounding $200 IEMs a run for their money. To me it’s a U shaped sound profile. Bass is crisp and very present. Mids are not recessed much. Highs are present, well defined, and not harsh at all. Sound stage is decent. You can listen to these all day long and enjoy!  To me they compare very closely to the Moondrop Kanas Pro which is my favorite EDC IEM. Moondrop has slightly better detail. I think the ZS10 has better bass, but it’s close; will have to spend more time listening to be sure. The cable is superb. No microphonics, nice moulded earhook cables, soft but just stiff enough to hug your head and not flop off you ear with movement. No chin slider but it doesn’t need it. Also 90 degree 3.5mm TRS plug. This cable is perfect, and the mic version uses the same quality cable. Running them balanced gets too harsh for me. They are a great SE IEM. Just buy them and don’t look back. I think KZ has just redefined the benchmark for budget IEMs.


----------



## buke9

Anyone know what size Comply tip works with a ZS7 or know the bore size don’t have them asking for someone else.


----------



## Superluc

My pair of ZSN Pro is come and almost out of the box (2-3 hours of play before try them) i feel them as too splashy up top, with a brighter tonality than the ZSN. I pick up more details and the soundstage is way bigger and airy, but at the expense of the balance the ZSN manage to archive. 

Also, they don't seem to pair well with the upgrade KZ silver cable, that work better on the normal ZSN. 

Right now i have do some tips rolling to make them a bit darker, but i still need to wait a lot of burn-in, as they seem harsher than i was hoping 

Bye for now, i let you know next week


----------



## KimChee

I was  wondering that too, or getting the Shure Olives Though that might kill the high frequency…


----------



## BadReligionPunk

New Bad Religion Album drops tomorrow the 3rd. Got my Hi Res copy yesterday and listened to it from start to finish 12 times today. Phenomenal album! Every single track is typical BR. Highly rec if you like melodic hardcore punk. 

ZSN works surprisingly good here, but honestly anything you stick in your ears is going to do just fine. BR has some of the best production and sounds great. Anyway here is a couple of my favorite songs on the record. Enjoy, or don't.


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2019)

So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.

These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.

The ZS7 had a very safe and tame treble, which I believe KZ did because of the ZS6 backlash. However, the ZS7 are a bit too dialed down and distant for me. As much as I love the ZS7, I always wished it had some more treble energy. Well, the ZS10 Pro is just that.

The bass is very deep and punchy. Soundstage is good. I am going to see if it can opened up even further with modding, so stay tuned on that.

There’s a midrange peak at 2k and again at 4k, which give vocals a nice warmth and forwardness. Mids are more forward, which makes vocals come alive. Lead singers sound like they’re properly in front of the band, not the other way around.

Now, I know some people dislike those upper mid/lower treble bumps, but that’s a matter of personal preference. I for one prefer those upper mid/lower treble bumps.

So now into treble. There’s good clarity and air. Plenty of treble energy, but not sharp or aggressive. It’s just the perfect amount IMO.

Bang up job KZ!

So bottom line is if you totally hate the ZS7, then you won’t like the ZS10 Pro. It’s basically the same, plus extra treble. However, if you like the ZS7, but wished it had more treble, then you’ll definitely like these.

If you don’t own either, then I would go with how sensitive you are to treble. If you are ultra sensitive, then go with the ZS7. If you like treble and clarity, go with the ZS10 Pro.
You really can’t go wrong with either, unless you hate phones with upper mid/lower treble emphasis.

I liked the ZS10 Pro so much I bought a 2nd pair. I’ve been enjoying them more than the CCA C16, which says a lot. I’m still tip rolling and playing with the C16, so I reserve the right to change that opinion. But right now the ZS10 Pro has shot to the top of my favorite KZ IEM list.

Full disclosure, I am using both ZS7 and ZS10 Pro with Auvio tips, upgraded cables, and amp. I also relocated the ZS10 Pro crossover circuit board to the ‘side pocket’ of the shell, exactly like I did with the ZSN.

Anyways, YMMV.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone checked out audiofool.reviews? I like his simple reviews a lot and wonder what you guys think of his take on KZ's, etc?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 3, 2019)

pbui44 said:


> Edit: Okay, now I can tell you why: read @Slater signature on companies that you cannot mention.


I find it amusing how you tell me the brand and iem I mentioned is banned by Headfi. Yet its listed on Slaters profile page as one he owns. LOL.

If its banned why is Slater listing it/advertising it on his profile? Is Slater a Headfi employee?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> I also relocated the ZS10 Pro crossover circuit board to the ‘side pocket’ of the shell, exactly like I did with the ZSN.


Why did you do that?


----------



## Slater (May 3, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find it amusing how you tell me the brand and iem I mentioned is banned by Headfi. Yet its listed on Slaters profile page as one he owns. LOL.
> 
> If its banned why is Slater listing it/advertising it on his profile? Is Slater a Headfi employee?



Banned things can’t be openly discussed on the forums, nor reviewed on HeadFi. Do you see me discussing or reviewing the banned stuff? Nope.

The Admins are very clear about the banned products, and they have never told me they couldn’t be listed in our profiles. If they do, then I’ll happily comply and remove the info.

There’s a lot of stuff in my profile. I’m not ‘advertising’ anything. I’m here for the same reason as everyone else - to share and discuss audio.

And why on earth would you think I’m an employee of HeadFi? I own my own company and am my own boss. I am no one’s employee.

I aggregated the banned info in my signature because the board doesn’t have any sticky posts. It was to help and inform people, which your attack isn’t helpful or informative.

Is there any reason you’re trying to start trouble?


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find it amusing how you tell me the brand and iem I mentioned is banned by Headfi. Yet its listed on Slaters profile page as one he owns. LOL.
> 
> If its banned why is Slater listing it/advertising it on his profile? Is Slater a Headfi employee?



We list what we own in our profile.. .no advertising involved.


----------



## mbwilson111

People should think before they post... not just type random thoughts


----------



## eclein

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...



Awesome, awesome, I just ordered some and they are due tomorrow. You and I like the same sound so I’m extra pumped!


 
These are due shortly I’m told, looking forward to hearing them and I gotta fine a quicker source for TRN X6, I really am not wired for “delivery patience”.
If you folks hear of anybody selling a review pair or whatever please let me know...thanks! Another fun weekend ahead!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...



Sounds like these are a definite step up then from OG ZS10. And more comfortable too! 

Good Job with the synopsis. Very nice to have comparisons.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...


That's interesting. I am currently burning in the CA4 and the overall signature so far is similar to the ZS7 but with a brighter, more extended treble, so it may appeal to those who found the ZS7 too reserved up top. I really like them, they are very entertaining and musical.


----------



## Leo-rume

Nimweth said:


> That's interesting. I am currently burning in the CA4 and the overall signature so far is similar to the ZS7 but with a brighter, more extended treble, so it may appeal to those who found the ZS7 too reserved up top. I really like them, they are very entertaining and musical.


Thank you. This is just what I've been looking for. Would you say the bass is far behind that of the ZS7 in quantity as well as quality? As I've gathered here the ZS7 is generally agreed to have ample amounts of quality bass. Thinking about getting these. CCA sold me completely with the C10. Completely!!!


----------



## Crandall

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...


Could you share those frequency response graphs? I'm looking at picking up either the ZS7 or ZS10 Pro soon and currently have the AS10. I'm looking for slightly more sub bass, upper treble details(8-14khz), and milder low treble compared to the AS10 which seems to have a bit of a 3-4khz peak that bugs me.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...


Trusted review, exactly what I wanted KZ to do with the ZS7. Bought. Thanks Slater.


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> People should think before they post... not just type random thoughts


Have to use the WayBackMachine if you want to find an era where that ever happened on the internet.


----------



## Nimweth

Leo-rume said:


> Thank you. This is just what I've been looking for. Would you say the bass is far behind that of the ZS7 in quantity as well as quality? As I've gathered here the ZS7 is generally agreed to have ample amounts of quality bass. Thinking about getting these. CCA sold me completely with the C10. Completely!!!


The bass is deep, textured and well extended. It is a similar level to the ZS7, definitely north of neutral.  The sub-bass has a good rumble. The bass does not dominate the overall presentation but gives a solid and satisfying foundation.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...



Excellent review and sums up perfectly how I feel about the ZS10 Pro.

I don't know about the technical side, frequency range and peaks etc.

But they sound  bloody lovely through my FIIO X1 (2nd Gen) and slightly better when powered by my A3.
And that's what count the most


----------



## Slater (May 3, 2019)

Crandall said:


> Could you share those frequency response graphs? I'm looking at picking up either the ZS7 or ZS10 Pro soon and currently have the AS10. I'm looking for slightly more sub bass, upper treble details(8-14khz), and milder low treble compared to the AS10 which seems to have a bit of a 3-4khz peak that bugs me.



I normally don’t like sharing my graphs because they are not accurate.

I don’t have an IEC coupler, nothing is calibrated, and there has always been an issue with my sub bass measurement. It detects less sub bass amplitude than there really is, and it shows sub bass roll off when there is none.

For example, I could measure Rock Zircon, which has enough boosted sub bass to crack your skull in 2, and the graph would show huge sub bass roll off, and a much lower sub bass amplitude than there really is.

Also, most FR graphs you see should not be compared to someone else’s graphs because they have different setups. For example, my ZS10 Pro graph should not be compared to Johnny John’s ZS6 or Joe Schmo’s ED9 graph because they’re all different IEMs on different equipment. Likewise, my ZS7 graph shouldn’t be compared to any blogger’s ZS7 graph because they’ll be different. Make sense?

However, the graphs ARE useful for back-to-back comparisons. So for example, when tuning, when comparing IEMs, etc. Therefore, they are useful in this case, because the readings were taken at the same time on exactly the same equipment (even the same tips and same cable).

The area to pay attention to is >8k. That’s a where there’s any significant difference:


----------



## eclein (May 3, 2019)

Dude you nailed it for those of us waiting for impressions.....Thanks!

Edit: added “it” because the knucklehead, myself, forgot it!


----------



## FastAndClean

AS16 is out


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...


thanks for the review (and also for last zs7 vs zs10 pro graphs added)! but i also hate you: will have to consider to try these new kzs now
it's a very good new kz recovers some of the old treble energy. the extreme treble roll-off (together with overdone bass and recessed mids) made me stop purchasing kz
ordered zsn pro, and i'll probably try zs10 pro at summer sales


----------



## KimChee

I wonder if AS16 is gonna have a sound like CCA16?



FastAndClean said:


> AS16 is out


----------



## Crandall

Slater said:


> I normally don’t like sharing my graphs because they are not accurate.
> 
> I don’t have an IEC coupler, nothing is calibrated, and there has always been an issue with my sub bass measurement. It detects less sub bass amplitude than there really is, and it shows sub bass roll off when there is none.
> 
> ...


Thanks, and yeah, I understand what you mean. Even with groups using high end testing equipment, I don't think it's fair to directly compare measurements between groups due to possible differences in setup. 

That said, visualizing the slope differences in the treble between those two definitely points me towards the ZS10 Pro over the ZS7 as far as what I'm looking for in an IEM to complement my AS10.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Just received my ZSN pro and zs10 pro !

First listen with z3 and zs10 pro on synthwave ( LVL.2 ( Magic sword remix )- Scattle )

https://twitter.com/Chifi_Fr/status/1124370225565192197?s=19

For the moment very clear and great separation ! Very cool first impression


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...



I'll see with CCA C10 because they have same hardware. I think it's same thing with slight difference change.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Eagerly waiting for June sale now - CA4, ZS10 pro, X6, A10 on the list. At this rate, bankruptcy sems very feasible. Lol


----------



## FastAndClean

KimChee said:


> I wonder if AS16 is gonna have a sound like CCA16?


i expect more forced version of C16, more V shaped


----------



## Slater

FastAndClean said:


> i expect more forced version of C16, more V shaped



That would be nice. The C16 needs some more oomph in the low end.


----------



## KimChee

I was kind of thinking that too



FastAndClean said:


> i expect more forced version of C16, more V shaped


----------



## KimChee

C16 too clinical sounding...great detail, but for someone with my sound signature preferences, a tad boring...


----------



## FastAndClean

KimChee said:


> C16 too clinical sounding...great detail, but for someone with my sound signature preferences, a tad boring...


i use them with bass EQ, they respond instantly with power in the low end, excellent control at the same time, my go to for electronic music like DNB


----------



## TechnoidFR

Slater said:


> So I’ve spent a few days with the ZS10 Pro, and KZ did a really good job with these. I like it a lot.
> 
> These have almost an identical signature to the ZS7. In fact, my ZS10 Pro crossover circuit boards actually say “ZS7” on them! Also, my FR measurements are identical between the 2, with 1 exception: _treble_.
> 
> ...



I'm totally agree with your analyse. I add two more difference. After try with one at the left and one at the right.
Clearly very very similar

Zs10 pro have better soundstage. More wider
Better separation, Clearly
I listen this upper mid-range which is appreciate. Zs7 have slightly more sub bass.
I try With a YouTube vidéo 20/20khz and same thing that your graph.

Need a comparison with c10 which have similar difference except soundstage. But i don't have with me, I go on holiday and c10 is not with me, I prefer zs7. 

It's impressive because with the same hardware ( zs10/c10/zs10 pro) we have very big difference and with kz zs7 which is different we have similar sound


----------



## KimChee

I found zs10Pro to have less subbass, but bigger soundstage, imaging, better clarity and layering.  More laid back and airy treble, but less energetic. Clearer and more fwd mids.



TechnoidFR said:


> I'm totally agree with your analyse. I add two more difference. After try with one at the left and one at the right.
> Clearly very very similar
> 
> Zs10 pro have better soundstage. More wider
> ...


----------



## tgx78

KimChee said:


> I found zs10Pro to have less subbass, but bigger soundstage, imaging, better clarity and layering.  More laid back and airy treble, but less energetic. Clearer and more fwd mids.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-zs10-pro-build-to-rival-everything-sound-to-rival-nothing.905995/

This person says his zs10 pro is almost unlistenable with recessed mids and bad imaging. Wonder if he received a defective unit.


----------



## mbwilson111

tgx78 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-zs10-pro-build-to-rival-everything-sound-to-rival-nothing.905995/
> 
> This person says his zs10 pro is almost unlistenable with recessed mids and bad imaging. Wonder if he received a defective unit.



I know I say this a lot but the first thing to check would be if they are in phase.


----------



## moisespr123

I felt the ZS10 Pro may have a bit of emptiness in the middle (mids), but I was coming from the ZS7. Now, it seems to be better. I even used the ZS7 on one side while having the ZS10 Pro on the other side with my balanced cable and they have a slight difference but otherwise, mids are fine. Vocals are definitely not as forward as with the ZS7, and I had to get used to listening to tracks that I listened already with the ZS7.


----------



## Slater (May 3, 2019)

tgx78 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-zs10-pro-build-to-rival-everything-sound-to-rival-nothing.905995/
> 
> This person says his zs10 pro is almost unlistenable with recessed mids and bad imaging. Wonder if he received a defective unit.



Well, his/her opinion is just as valid as the next person’s.

Perhaps his/her pair has some wiring issue (like out of phase drivers like @mbwilson111 mentioned). Or it’s paired with a poor source. Or some QC problem (one of my 2 sets has glue drips that’s actually blocking 1 of the BAs).

Maybe he/she just doesn’t like the sound signature.

Regardless, the fact that he mentioned EarPods and other earphones bundled with phones as examples of good gear really makes me go hmmm


----------



## Veyska

Have the newer KZ Bluetooth cables started shipping yet?  <-<  I've apparently reached a satisfactory enough middle ground with the BT20's pinch that I'm now being sporadically annoyed by the battery case creak-rubbing against my glasses and am thus still not entirely certain I'm keeping them forever and ever amen (or at least until I lose/replace my CCA C10s and thus potentially swap cable connector types) but Murphy's Law says if I buy a TRN BT10/BT3 before reviews come in it's gonna' be the KZ ZSN/CCA C10 situation all over again but in a less useful/backup/cheap-ish fashion.


----------



## KimChee

Well.  Relatively, compared to the ZS7, the mids are clearer, most present, more forward.  I know not everyone believes in break in time, but I think the 7 and 10Pro sound better at 50 and open up around 100..



tgx78 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-zs10-pro-build-to-rival-everything-sound-to-rival-nothing.905995/
> 
> This person says his zs10 pro is almost unlistenable with recessed mids and bad imaging. Wonder if he received a defective unit.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 4, 2019)

Slater said:


> Banned things can’t be openly discussed on the forums, nor reviewed on HeadFi. Do you see me discussing or reviewing the banned stuff? Nope.
> 
> The Admins are very clear about the banned products, and they have never told me they couldn’t be listed in our profiles. If they do, then I’ll happily comply and remove the info.
> 
> ...


I think you are over thinking my post. I mentioned a brand that I didnt know was banned on Headfi. I then was told to look at your profile to find which brands were banned which I couldn't find. I then noticed the brand I was told was not to be discussed by me or anyone else listed on your profile and I found that amusing since its banned on Headfi. I never attacked you or anyone else. I was just mentioning what I had found. Common sense says to me if something is banned it shouldn't be talked about in any way.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

KimChee said:


> Well.  Relatively, compared to the ZS7, the mids are clearer, most present, more forward.  I know not everyone believes in break in time, but I think the 7 and 10Pro sound better at 50 and open up around 100..


Is the ZS10 Pro as dark as the ZS7?


----------



## stryed

To cool down the hype : KZ5v2 was more or less the same as the KZ6 because soundstage was slightly diminished (I like soundstage!)
Sme prefer the KZ6 to the KZ7 due to highs, and KZ ZS10 pro seems to have worked on it. 

For the most part, these seem lIke marginal upgrades.  I will wait and see the AS16 reviews but so far, I'm happy with the **** as my companion and don't regret not buying the KZ7. Wait and see!


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think you are over thinking my post. I mentioned a brand that I didnt know was banned on Headfi. I then was told to look at your profile to find which brands were banned which I couldn't find. I then noticed the brand I was told was not to be discussed by me or anyone else listed on your profile and I found that amusing since its banned on Headfi. I never attacked you or anyone else. I was just mentioning what I had found. Common sense says to me if something is banned it shouldn't be talked about in any way.


I kinda agree but I think therein lies the problem with outright banning of the discussions of certain companies and brands. I have seen many of these banned brands and companies on Amazon, ebay and Ali. Many headfiers shop on these platforms and will come across these brands and companies in their search to find gear. As members of the community, it's only natural that they will reach out to other headfi members and ask questions about a possible new purchase. To be told that "we can't talk about or mention this brand/company here", is a bit heavy handed, imho. Why not just say, " I/we don't recommend you buy from this brand/company"...and here's why we feel this way. Then, allow the member to make their own decision. I'm not a big fan of any organization that imposes their moral values on everyone else. Banning people, companies, brands, models, etc from discussions because a few headfonious supremus didn't like how they did business, doesn't go towards answering the question of "how does the banned brand model A compare with the non-banned brand model B? The banned brand may have better build and sound quality, but because the overlords decided to ban it, no one will ever have the opportunity to even compare or discuss it on this site. I feel a better approach would be to allow people to talk about these brands, and then insert a link to a thread that warns against the supposed wrongdoings of the brand/company in question. That way, people can still discuss their gear or ask for recommendations without fear of being banned themselves. Personally, I think it's a kinder and more inclusive approach.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

stryed said:


> I'm happy with the **** as my companion and don't regret not buying the KZS7. Wait and see!


You should regret your decision.  They both sound completely different and both are must buys.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 4, 2019)

The KZ AS16 is $125USD on Aliexpress right now. They say that's the sale price! It's 40% off!?


----------



## High on Ketamine

Here is a frequentie chart from ZSN pro and ZS10 pro. Basicly the same but the ZSN pro is a tad brighter
.


----------



## High on Ketamine




----------



## KimChee

No, I would say no, but also I don’t consider ZS7 dark.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the ZS10 Pro as dark as the ZS7?


----------



## KimChee (May 4, 2019)

I’m more than happy with ZS7 with upgrade cable (for now!), as my daily driver.  I’ve got my eye on CCA20, but I can’t see it being a huge upgrade over CCA16.  If you look at AS16, it’s on sale for $125.  Part of the fun for me anyways is great sound at <$100...and you can see where this is trending...eventually they’ll make only  >$200-$300 releases...them we will have to find another up and coming Chi-Fi company to obsess over lol.



stryed said:


> To cool down the hype : KZ5v2 was more or less the same as the KZ6 because soundstage was slightly diminished (I like soundstage!)
> Sme prefer the KZ6 to the KZ7 due to highs, and KZ ZS10 pro seems to have worked on it.
> 
> For the most part, these seem lIke marginal upgrades.  I will wait and see the AS16 reviews but so far, I'm happy with the **** as my companion and don't regret not buying the KZ7. Wait and see!


----------



## moisespr123

Veyska said:


> Have the newer KZ Bluetooth cables started shipping yet?  <-<  I've apparently reached a satisfactory enough middle ground with the BT20's pinch that I'm now being sporadically annoyed by the battery case creak-rubbing against my glasses and am thus still not entirely certain I'm keeping them forever and ever amen (or at least until I lose/replace my CCA C10s and thus potentially swap cable connector types) but Murphy's Law says if I buy a TRN BT10/BT3 before reviews come in it's gonna' be the KZ ZSN/CCA C10 situation all over again but in a less useful/backup/cheap-ish fashion.



Yes, mine is on the way. Should be here in about 3-4 weeks.


----------



## FastAndClean

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The KZ AS16 is $125USD on Aliexpress right now. They say that's the sale price! It's 40% off!?


they use the same crossover like C16 and the same woofers and mid drivers, only the tweeters are different


----------



## Damikiller37

Veyska said:


> Have the newer KZ Bluetooth cables started shipping yet?  <-<  I've apparently reached a satisfactory enough middle ground with the BT20's pinch that I'm now being sporadically annoyed by the battery case creak-rubbing against my glasses and am thus still not entirely certain I'm keeping them forever and ever amen (or at least until I lose/replace my CCA C10s and thus potentially swap cable connector types) but Murphy's Law says if I buy a TRN BT10/BT3 before reviews come in it's gonna' be the KZ ZSN/CCA C10 situation all over again but in a less useful/backup/cheap-ish fashion.


I've ordered the new Bluetooth 5.0 cable yesterday and it shipped overnight. Will post a comparison with the previous model since I have that one currently. Although I had nothing against the sound and physical quality of the previous model the connection is weak. Sometimes it cuts out with my phone in the pocket and the modules out and not covered by anything. Hopefully KZ addressed that with the new one.


----------



## eclein

Hey folks the silver faceplate on my IM1s is starting to lift, the glue will be here someday but my question is : Should I just take it off so it doesn’t get lost when it eventually finds its way to freedom?

Anything special I need to remember, like don’t get glue on BAs etc......?
Ed


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

KimChee said:


> C16 too clinical sounding...great detail, but for someone with my sound signature preferences, a tad boring...


Sounds like my description of the C10.


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> Hey folks the silver faceplate on my IM1s is starting to lift, the glue will be here someday but my question is : Should I just take it off so it doesn’t get lost when it eventually finds its way to freedom?
> 
> Anything special I need to remember, like don’t get glue on BAs etc......?
> Ed



Is the shell hollow underneath? Or is it solid plastic underneath?

From photos of the IM1, it seems like the shell is a solid hunk of acrylic. In other words, all of the space inside the shell is filled in solid with acrylic.

As opposed to IEMs that are basically a hollow shell and they add the drivers inside the hollow area.

That, it my mind, will help determine the answer to your question.


----------



## eclein

Slater look at some they didn’t change and make solid, the Red and Black still have the cool faceplate I think. Remember when (xyz’s) came off it was hollow I believe. Mine is lifting slightly but no visual on insides yet but its a first run. I can’t remember if it was nymphophoniac or ?? but he said it was his fav. Its in a thread somewhere. Either way its light application around rim and mate it up with plate hoping my hands don’t spaz out and hold it still as I can.
I was bummed as glue is a world traveler before I see it but not anymore! I’m listening to newly acquired *ZS10 PRO *as I type and they may just be my *daily driver* very soon. Early days though but the stock medium tip that was installed at factory is perfect for me. Do we know what it is, its not the usual starlines they use. Any clue about them??


----------



## KimChee

There’s too many upgrades ugh lol.  Must not buy AS16..must not buy..


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> Slater look at some they didn’t change and make solid, the Red and Black still have the cool faceplate I think. Remember when (xyz’s) came off it was hollow I believe. Mine is lifting slightly but no visual on insides yet but its a first run. I can’t remember if it was nymphophoniac or ?? but he said it was his fav. Its in a thread somewhere. Either way its light application around rim and mate it up with plate hoping my hands don’t spaz out and hold it still as I can.
> I was bummed as glue is a world traveler before I see it but not anymore! I’m listening to newly acquired *ZS10 PRO *as I type and they may just be my *daily driver* very soon. Early days though but the stock medium tip that was installed at factory is perfect for me. Do we know what it is, its not the usual starlines they use. Any clue about them??



Cool, thanks for the info!

On the pre-installed tips, KZ started using those about a year ago. I forget when they 1st appeared. I like them, they’re kind of like a smooth Starline. I wonder why they only include M size though?


----------



## DynamicEars

Hey @Slater 
Do you have C10 with you to compare with ZS10 pro since they are sharing same driver configuration. I like balance siganature and not to v shaped, but I ditched my C10 because i simply don't like them because of the mid bass bleed. are the ZS10 pro has better bass (mid bass bleed, sub bass that goes deep and well textured) and how about soundstage?

And the ZSN pro FR is really close to ZS10 PRO, are they sound very different in reality? oh and how are they compared to your BQEYZ?

I know i don't need to buy ZS10 pro, but yeah, this is head-fi  place of temptation.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> Hey @Slater
> Do you have C10 with you to compare with ZS10 pro since they are sharing same driver configuration. I like balance siganature and not to v shaped, but I ditched my C10 because i simply don't like them because of the mid bass bleed. are the ZS10 pro has better bass (mid bass bleed, sub bass that goes deep and well textured) and how about soundstage?
> 
> And the ZSN pro FR is really close to ZS10 PRO, are they sound very different in reality? oh and how are they compared to your BQEYZ?
> ...



I don’t have anything with me at the moment, as I’m out with friends tonight. But I will sit down with them all tomorrow and let you know, because I know others are interested as well.


----------



## SoundChoice (May 5, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Hey @Slater
> Do you have C10 with you to compare with ZS10 pro since they are sharing same driver configuration. I like balance siganature and not to v shaped, but I ditched my C10 because i simply don't like them because of the mid bass bleed. are the ZS10 pro has better bass (mid bass bleed, sub bass that goes deep and well textured) and how about soundstage?



I’m no Slater, but just a guy with no charts, playing music from a phone,  and both those IEMs.

After only a few days...

C10: strong mids and mild bass, hardly V-shaped. Good isolation, sideways if not a mild step up from AS10, which has better bass.

ZS10 Pro: misleading name, as the ZS10 had shells the size of beach balls, and if you could use enough epoxy to get a seal you heard boring unremarkable signature. The Pro is smaller housing with a lively signature, punchy bass, and to my ears textured. Can’t comment on soundstage yet, but they’re definitely tuned differently than the C10s, like a more tamed and refined ZSN.

But again, I’m just a guy who likes music but can’t hear the tambourine on Money for Nothing, so take it with a grain of salt.


----------



## randomnin

SoundChoice said:


> I’m no Slater, but just a guy with poor hearing and both those IEMs.
> 
> After only a few days...
> 
> ...


Stupid human body parts, utterly unreliable. Where are my aftermarket android-ears already? I want to go cyborg stat!


----------



## DynamicEars

SoundChoice said:


> I’m no Slater, but just a guy with no charts, playing music from a phone,  and both those IEMs.
> 
> After only a few days...
> 
> ...



Thanks for your chip in,

I got C10, i thought bass would be clean on these, but still there were too much mid bass bleed for me. I got C10, ZSN, ZSN pro, original ZS10 as you mentioned above. original ZSN suffer from high peak at high mid 2.5-3khz. The ZSN pro made an improvement on that sector and slightly bigger soundstage.
I just need to confirm before i buy the ZS10 PRO, fit is definitely not an issue since they are using same shell as ZSN / ZSN pro/ C10, i just want to know if bass sector got improvement over C10 or ZSN PRO, I want sub bass that digs deep, with great texture, without mid bass bleed.

Thanks anyway buddy, appreciate it that


----------



## Delta32

Is the polished metal plate on the ZS10 coated with any clear coating or is it bare? I would probably like to give it a brushed finish, it sounds like they're great, but they seem a bit too blingy for me.

Also, is it a step up from the ZS6 in sound quality, or is it just more welltuned (no sharp treble)? Instead of 2 dynamic drivers and 2 BA, it's 1 DD and 4 BA, so I'm wondering how they compare.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Delta32 said:


> Is the polished metal plate on the ZS10 coated with any clear coating or is it bare? I would probably like to give it a brushed finish, it sounds like they're great, but they seem a bit too blingy for me.
> 
> Also, is it a step up from the ZS6 in sound quality, or is it just more welltuned (no sharp treble)? Instead of 2 dynamic drivers and 2 BA, it's 1 DD and 4 BA, so I'm wondering how they compare.



ZS10 Pro's face plate is polished steel, similar to the entirety of the CA Comet and Atlas. No additional coatings that I can tell. Imo it's a step up from the ZS6. Better clarity, tighter bass, similar sound stage, cleaner sounding all-round.


----------



## eclein

The ZS10 Pro shell is smallest yet to me, fits perfect and the stock tip is great for me, something different than starlines. I’d like to know how to get a bunch more. So I’m using ZS10Pro with stock tip and one of the cables from my ZSN stuff. I hate the KZ brown funky stock cable As they feel cheap.

I’m hearing a more neutral sound than other KZs, but the bass punch is there, kick drums sound like kicks. Its still early days but so far its perfect sound for me. The mids are present and accounted for, zero sibilance, love the low end. The drivers all blend together wonderfully presenting a seamless sound thats easy all day listen and comfort. Love it myself!


----------



## archdawg (May 5, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> ZS10 Pro's face plate is polished steel, similar to the entirety of the CA Comet and Atlas. No additional coatings that I can tell. Imo it's a step up from the ZS6. Better clarity, tighter bass, similar sound stage, cleaner sounding all-round.


May I ask what source you're using? I'm pretty happy with the precision of the bass and lack of bleed of my ZS6 as long as the source is up to the job. Regarding clarity or even transparency the ZS6 can't hold a candle even to the RN QT5 I got a couple days ago but OTOH they easily beat the T2 in that department IMO.


----------



## SoundChoice (May 5, 2019)

Delta32 said:


> Is the polished metal plate on the ZS10 coated with any clear coating or is it bare? I would probably like to give it a brushed finish



It's not brushed like ZSN or C10, but the same blinding reflectivity of the KPE with a ZSN pattern: shiny chrome, and not something that blends in well on stage or at night doing a zero-dark-thirty commando raid.


----------



## B9Scrambler

archdawg said:


> May I ask what source you're using? I'm pretty happy with the precision of the bass and lack of bleed of my ZS6 as long as the source is up to the job. Regarding clarity or even transparency the ZS6 can't hold a candle even to the RN QT5 I got a couple days ago but OTOH they easily beat the T2 in that department IMO.



I've got a couple I use with it; ZiShan DSD, Shanling M0 primarly with a variety of amps tossed in if I feel like it. Not saying the ZS6 is sloppy or anything (I'm one of the few that seems to really like them and not be bothered by the treble), just the ZS10 Pro improves on it in a number of ways. Mind you, I'm also of the opinion it sounds very little like the ZS7 and ZSN Pro (bass in particular). Was pretty surprised to see the measurements that showed up. ZS10 Pro is tuned a lot like the old TFZ King Pro to my ears, with a treble and mid focus with bass backing it up. Great extension with more sub-bass than mid-bass. ZS7 and ZSN Pro (this one esp) are a lot more warm and mid-bassy than the ZS10 Pro to my ears.


----------



## Slater

Delta32 said:


> Is the polished metal plate on the ZS10 coated with any clear coating or is it bare? I would probably like to give it a brushed finish, it sounds like they're great, but they seem a bit too blingy for me.



It’s polished T-304 stainless steel. No coating.

I’m planning on putting a brushed finish on one of my pairs as well. Or maybe sand blast.

I also have something else planned for them, but the stuff hasn’t arrived yet...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 6, 2019)

I tried the SPC cable with the ZS7 on the Z1 with OPA1622 and it made the ZS7 sound average. The supplied cable is definitely a good one that helps give it its unique sound. Now to try other eartips...


----------



## DynamicEars

B9Scrambler said:


> I've got a couple I use with it; ZiShan DSD, Shanling M0 primarly with a variety of amps tossed in if I feel like it. Not saying the ZS6 is sloppy or anything (I'm one of the few that seems to really like them and not be bothered by the treble), just the ZS10 Pro improves on it in a number of ways. Mind you, I'm also of the opinion it sounds very little like the ZS7 and ZSN Pro (bass in particular). Was pretty surprised to see the measurements that showed up. ZS10 Pro is tuned a lot like the old TFZ King Pro to my ears, with a treble and mid focus with bass backing it up. Great extension with more sub-bass than mid-bass. ZS7 and ZSN Pro (this one esp) are a lot more warm and mid-bassy than the ZS10 Pro to my ears.



more sub bass than mid bass is what i after, rarely find this kind of bass on budget iem.


----------



## jeromeaparis

DynamicEars said:


> more sub bass than mid bass is what i after, rarely find this kind of bass on budget iem.


KZ ED16 ("ZS7") is my only KZ that does it !
it's a 1DD + 2BA


----------



## El Fuinha

Hello 

Just ordered a KS-AS16, from ali...

Need help finding a TRRS 2.5mm tha fit this cable, my orther IEMs use 2pin 0,78mm.

Many Thanks


----------



## mbwilson111

El Fuinha said:


> Hello
> 
> Just ordered a KS-AS16, from ali...
> 
> ...



The cables you already have will probably fit.


----------



## TheVortex (May 6, 2019)

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Cancelling-Earbuds/1358152_33011866931.html?

Here is the link at the "official" KZ store for the AS16 for the peeps who didn't know and I noticed on one of the promo images it shows on the outer casing dynamic x 2 and balanced armature x 4 so originally it had a different driver layout. Wondered why they changed it and also using new ba's for the highs. Should be a good comparison with the guys who have the CCA C16.


----------



## Aparker2005

Is there any new upgraded cable I should get for my as16 or is stock just fine?


----------



## Mybutthurts

TheVortex said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Cancelling-Earbuds/1358152_33011866931.html?
> 
> Here is the link at the "official" KZ store for the AS16 for the peeps who didn't know and I noticed on one of the promo images it shows on the outer casing dynamic x 2 and balanced armature x 4 so originally it had a different driver layout. Wondered why they changed it and also using new ba's for the highs. Should be a good comparison with the guys who have the CCA C16.



And I you follow that link for AS16 there is an offer for a free cable if you purchase the AS16 on May 5,6 or 7th.

Still too pricey for me.


----------



## El Fuinha

On AK audio store on Ali the price 89€


----------



## El Fuinha

About the cable... 

Any 2pin 0,78mm will fit?????
Let me know please


----------



## pbui44

Aparker2005 said:


> Is there any new upgraded cable I should get for my as16 or is stock just fine?



Your ears will tell you.  Probably will have to do at least 50 hours of album burn-in time for all of those cheap BA drivers, though.


----------



## Slater

Mybutthurts said:


> And I you follow that link for AS16 there is an offer for a free cable if you purchase the AS16 on May 5,6 or 7th.
> 
> Still too pricey for me.



Yeah, that’s a tough sell.

You can get a CCA C16 plus a ZS10 Pro for the same price.

Sure, I know the C16 was that high when it first came out, and that the AS16 price will drop.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes it is worth a wait for the AS16 indeed


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> Yeah, that’s a tough sell.
> 
> You can get a CCA C16 plus a ZS10 Pro for the same price.
> 
> Sure, I know the C16 was that high when it first came out, and that the AS16 price will drop.



At the moment I'm happy with the ZS10 Pro, AS10, original ZS10 and CCA C10 at a push.
And there's me thinking the ATE was the mutts nuts when I got it. And I think it is for £7 I paid for it.

But I look forward to the reviews of AS16 from the more learned members of this forum.


----------



## Caipirina (May 6, 2019)

El Fuinha said:


> About the cable...
> 
> Any 2pin 0,78mm will fit?????
> Let me know please



Personally I’d be careful shoving a 78nm size metal pin into a 75nm smaller hole. Might work once, but from then on, the original cable will be loose fitting.

I know the .75mm balanced cable exists, took me a while to find though. Will check my past AliX orders later. Am on mobile right now. 

Edit: Hope this copy / paste works

US $6.80  31％ Off | KZ ZST ZSR ES3 ED12 ZS10 ES4 Silver Plating Upgrade Cable Earphone Headset Replaceable 3.5mm 2.5mm Line  for Android IOS
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bpLOeJOg


----------



## randomnin

http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zs10-pro-review/
ThePhonograph's review is out, and the graph shows a number of interesting things.
KZ seem to have changed their DD to something different. It is revealed by a slightly lesser mid-bass bleed and the characteristics of the region encompassing bass and mids and the transition between them. The lines are straight now, both at 20-100Hz and 100-500Hz. It used to be curved for years of KZ models.
Another thing is that the 5-8kHz dip is much less pronounced, hell, it doesn't even really exist, since it's replaced by two medium dips at 3kHz and 6kHz (the depth being about -5dB. The standard 5-8kHz dip used to have a nadir of about -15dB). This region now looks more like that of CCA C16. KZ has done done real signature changes and improvements for once, kudos.

http://www.thephonograph.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/KZ-ZS10-PRO-frequency-response-curve.jpg
http://www.thephonograph.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/KZ-ZSN-PRO-frequency-response-curve.jpg
http://www.thephonograph.net/wp-con...KZ-ZSN-vs-KZ-ES4-frequency-response-curve.jpg
http://www.thephonograph.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/KZ-ZS4-Frequency-Response-Curve.jpg
http://www.thephonograph.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/CCA-C16-frequency-response-curve.jpg
(Now, all of the above is true only if the supposition that ThePhonograph hasn't changed their measuring setup and methodology is true, but there's no indication to the contrary.)


----------



## eclein (May 7, 2019)

I'm all like "oh yes give me 100 BA's a side" but I'm not thinking about this new one (AS16) at all for some reason. The reason being, I think, is the ZS10 Pro! I had in my ears for like 2 days right off the bat. I was listening to music and not an iem......do you guys follow me.....this ZS10 Pro has me tickled pink and gives me zero reason right now to look at anything else.
Am I alone in that or do some of you feel sorta the same way??


----------



## archdawg

randomnin said:


> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zs10-pro-review/
> ThePhonograph's review is out, and the graph shows a number of interesting things.
> KZ seem to have changed their DD to something different. It is revealed by a slightly lesser mid-bass bleed and the characteristics of the region encompassing bass and mids and the transition between them. The lines are straight now, both at 20-100Hz and 100-500Hz. It used to be curved for years of KZ models.
> Another thing is that the 5-8kHz dip is much less pronounced, hell, it doesn't even really exist, since it's replaced by two medium dips at 3kHz and 6kHz (the depth being about -5dB. The standard 5-8kHz dip used to have a nadir of about -15dB). This region now looks more like that of CCA C16. KZ has done done real signature changes and improvements for once, kudos.
> ...



Funny you mention the phonograph site - the last time I've checked, the ZS6 still had the highest sound rating (Bass 9-Mids 9-Treble 9) of all the KZs they've tested (and pretty much everything else on their list).


----------



## randomnin

archdawg said:


> Funny you mention the phonograph site - the last time I've checked, the ZS6 still had the highest sound rating (Bass 9-Mids 9-Treble 9) of all the KZs they've tested (and pretty much everything else on their list).


On their site, I usually only pay attention to the graphs, photos, the bass boost percentage tolerated by the IEM, maybe the isolation, leak and possibility to equalize ratings (the latter three because a lot of other reviewers just don't provide them at all). But I take everything with the exception of the first two with a pinch of salt. That site seems extremely commercialised and has poor usability. But the graph database and the speed of updates is good, so I have to tolerate everything else.


----------



## Nimweth

randomnin said:


> On their site, I usually only pay attention to the graphs, photos, the bass boost percentage tolerated by the IEM, maybe the isolation, leak and possibility to equalize ratings (the latter three because a lot of other reviewers just don't provide them at all). But I take everything with the exception of the first two with a pinch of salt. That site seems extremely commercialised and has poor usability. But the graph database and the speed of updates is good, so I have to tolerate everything else.


Yes, I think their reviews all sound the same, or at least very similar!


----------



## Wiljen

randomnin said:


> On their site, I usually only pay attention to the graphs, photos, the bass boost percentage tolerated by the IEM, maybe the isolation, leak and possibility to equalize ratings (the latter three because a lot of other reviewers just don't provide them at all). But I take everything with the exception of the first two with a pinch of salt. That site seems extremely commercialised and has poor usability. But the graph database and the speed of updates is good, so I have to tolerate everything else.



I think the Phonograph site is more about churning up sales than really doing good reviews.  I have yet to see them rank anything less than excellent.   Lots of affiliate links and "Specials for our readers" on that site.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 7, 2019)

Omg, I read a bad "review/comment" on the ZS10 Pro from a watcher of Bad Guy Audio Reviews YouTube channel. They're rolling in...  Bad reviews. Hopefully, no more...


----------



## CYoung234

Grayes said:


> any recommend for a wide range sound stage, detail, which one should I choose from kz line, is it ZS10 is the best for that kind of sound?



I own the ZS5v1, ZS6 and ZS10. I do have a CCA C16 on the way, but I have not heard any of the newer KZs, such as the AS10, BA10, ZS7, etc. Of the iems I own, the ZS10s are my favorites, and have a large and detailed soundstage. I listen to a fair amount of large scale symphonic classical music, and the stage width on the ZS10 is the best of the iems I own (see my signature).  The ZS10 has its share of detractors here. Some claim it sounds unnatural, some say it is too dark, etc. I disagree with them. I also own and like the Tin Audio T2, but I had to remove the grilles from my T2 to get them to sound right, as there was a slight but annoying coloration to symphonic brass instruments in my set of T2's before this. But, in terms of soundstage, the ZS10 is larger than the T2 as well.

Oh, these are my opinions, so take them for that. But, they are based on owning and using all of these iems, and not on what I have read about them, which I guess is sort of a headfi phenomena...


----------



## skajohyros

CYoung234 said:


> I own the ZS5v1, ZS6 and ZS10. I do have a CCA C16 on the way, but I have not heard any of the newer KZs, such as the AS10, BA10, ZS7, etc. Of the iems I own, the ZS10s are my favorites, and have a large and detailed soundstage. I listen to a fair amount of large scale symphonic classical music, and the stage width on the ZS10 is the best of the iems I own (see my signature).  The ZS10 has its share of detractors here. Some claim it sounds unnatural, some say it is too dark, etc. I disagree with them. I also own and like the Tin Audio T2, but I had to remove the grilles from my T2 to get them to sound right, as there was a slight but annoying coloration to symphonic brass instruments in my set of T2's before this. But, in terms of soundstage, the ZS10 is larger than the T2 as well.
> 
> Oh, these are my opinions, so take them for that. But, they are based on owning and using all of these iems, and not on what I have read about them, which I guess is sort of a headfi phenomena...


So the zs10 has bigger, wider and better soundstage than the zs5v1 ?


----------



## FastAndClean

the new AS16 is on sale now for 98$, i have C16, that is the reason why i will pass on that one, but who knows, it can be better


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> the new AS16 is on sale now for 98$, i have C16, that is the reason why i will pass on that one, but who knows, it can be better



Hopefully KZ bumped up the low end on the AS16.

Because the 2 bass drivers of the C16 are capable of a shocking amount of bass, and IMO they are being totally underutilized in the tuning C16. I’m using EQ to bring it up to where I want it, but I’d much rather have the tuning built into the physical hardware than rely on EQ.

I understand CCAs thing is flatter more neutral tuning than their KZ brethren, which is why I’m hoping they pump it up for the KZ version.


----------



## FastAndClean

Slater said:


> Hopefully KZ bumped up the low end on the AS16.
> 
> Because the 2 bass drivers of the C16 are capable of a shocking amount of bass, and IMO they are being totally underutilized in the tuning C16. I’m using EQ to bring it up to where I want it, but I’d much rather have the tuning built into the physical hardware than rely on EQ.


i use bass EQ with them too, the bass is amazing, the best part of that in ear, i will bet that the bass on AS16 is the same, they use the same crossover, the same woofers and the same internal design
treble will be different, the drivers are not the same as C16


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> i use bass EQ with them too, the bass is amazing, the best part of that in ear, i will bet that the bass on AS16 is the same, they use the same crossover, the same woofers and the same internal design
> treble will be different, the drivers are not the same as C16



So one thing I noticed on the C16 that’s interesting...it has that little white 3D printed piece, that acts as both a mount for the drivers as well as a sound tuning chamber.





Well, it has 2 small holes and 1 large hole. They’re acting like the vinyl tubing used in most multi-BA IEMs.

Anyways, one would assume that the large sound passage is for the bass drivers (since they’re larger and move more air). But the large hole is used by the high frequency drivers.

They can tune the sound using these passageways. So if they wanted more bass, they could make the bass passageway larger. But that has to be done in the actual design of that piece. It’s not something we can tweak on our end


----------



## Caipirina

FastAndClean said:


> the new AS16 is on sale now for 98$, i have C16, that is the reason why i will pass on that one, but who knows, it can be better


94.88 with coupon and on mobile ... this is still a bit crazy ... but oh so tempting ...


----------



## El Fuinha

Caipirina said:


> Personally I’d be careful shoving a 78nm size metal pin into a 75nm smaller hole. Might work once, but from then on, the original cable will be loose fitting.
> 
> I know the .75mm balanced cable exists, took me a while to find though. Will check my past AliX orders later. Am on mobile right now.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your answer. 

What I found is TRRS cable for type A and B, no type C that is what I need. 

No answers from KZ store on Ali on this subject.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> Hopefully KZ bumped up the low end on the AS16.
> 
> Because the 2 bass drivers of the C16 are capable of a shocking amount of bass, and IMO they are being totally underutilized in the tuning C16. I’m using EQ to bring it up to where I want it, but I’d much rather have the tuning built into the physical hardware than rely on EQ.
> 
> I understand CCAs thing is flatter more neutral tuning than their KZ brethren, which is why I’m hoping they pump it up for the KZ version.


I agree with you. I find engaging the bass boost on my Fiio A5 amplifier does the trick, but, like you, I prefer not to use EQ. I have found myself reaching for my ZS7 more than the C16.


----------



## Slater

El Fuinha said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> What I found is TRRS cable for type A and B, no type C that is what I need.
> 
> No answers from KZ store on Ali on this subject.



It will take a while for KZ to catch up, due to the newness of Type C.

If you can’t wait, JCAlly has a nice Type C cable, and you can custom request a 2.5mm balanced plug.


----------



## bhazard

I really like my CCA C16, but I'm tempted to get the AS16. Need some reviews and comparisons... I don't really want to pay more than I did for the C16.


----------



## El Fuinha

Slater said:


> It will take a while for KZ to catch up, due to the newness of Type C.
> 
> If you can’t wait, JCAlly has a nice Type C cable, and you can custom request a 2.5mm balanced plug.



Thanks

Can you send link please


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> So one thing I noticed on the C16 that’s interesting...it has that little white 3D printed piece, that acts as both a mount for the drivers as well as a sound tuning chamber.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a diagram of the AS16? The HF BA is not a 30095 as in the C16 but a 31736.


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> Is that a diagram of the AS16? The HF BA is not a 30095 as in the C16 but a 31736.



Yes, that diagram was from the A16. The diaphragm from the C16 marketing is not accurately drawn (I think they borrowed the graphic from another IEM model).

I was using it to show the 3D printed piece, not the model of drivers used.


----------



## Slater

El Fuinha said:


> Thanks
> 
> Can you send link please



https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7zRLWNE


----------



## El Fuinha

Slater said:


> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/b7zRLWNE



Many thanks


----------



## CYoung234

skajohyros said:


> So the zs10 has bigger, wider and better soundstage than the zs5v1 ?



For me, yes. The ZS5v1 may have a bit more "air", subjectively speaking, but I think it is due to the ZS5v1 being more v shaped. I personally find the ZS10 to be more musical and engaging. I will be curious to see how the CCA C16 compares once I receive them, in a month or so...


----------



## moisespr123

My AS16 has been shipped!


----------



## Slater

moisespr123 said:


> My AS16 has been shipped!



Nice. Let us know how you like it!


----------



## voicemaster

eclein said:


> I'm all like "oh yes give me 100 BA's a side" but I'm not thinking about this new one (AS16) at all for some reason. The reason being, I think, is the KS10 Pro! I had in my ears for like 2 days right off the bat. I was listening to music and not an iem......do you guys follow me.....this KS10 Pro has me tickled pink and gives me zero reason right now to look at anything else.
> Am I alone in that or do some of you feel sorta the same way??



what is this KS10 pro?


----------



## eclein

voicemaster said:


> what is this KS10 pro?



Oooops.  ZS10 Pro I went back and corrected it..thank you!


----------



## El Fuinha

hello i've found this cables on Aliexpress - 2.5mm balanced option, but need help:

This one will work: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/JCA...0c-454e-9f39-9fca1f835362&transAbTest=ae803_5

This ones i don't know if it will work:https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.55.3f3a39ed61gPM2

or this one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...0c-454e-9f39-9fca1f835362&transAbTest=ae803_5

i also don't know if QDC or UE TF10 connectors wil work.

The KZ-ZSN as the same Type C from KZ, can anyone check this conections - QDC or UE TF10...

thanks


----------



## voicemaster

eclein said:


> Oooops.  ZS10 Pro I went back and corrected it..thank you!


I thought KZ release another IEM that we haven't heard of xD. I just ordered ZS10 pro myself yesterday.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 8, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I have found myself reaching for my ZS7 more than the C16.


And, it's $35USD right now on Aliexpress!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ZS10 pro is $33 right now on mobile app. Really tough for me to not order, but I am happy with what I have. 

Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have.


----------



## Slater (May 7, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> ZS10 pro is $33 right now on mobile app. Really tough for me to not order, but I am happy with what I have.
> 
> Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have. Im happy with what I have.



Listen, don’t buy the ZS10 for that price.




































Spoiler: Spoiler



Buy 2! lol


----------



## mbwilson111

Bad Slater!


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> Listen, don’t buy the ZS10 for that price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That spoiler is evil. I'll go order two exorcisms on PopeExpress.


----------



## macky112

hi all, i need some advise.  

I have the ZS5V1 but I want to get a new IEM, and it came down to ZS7 and ZS10 Pro.

I like sub bass because of frequent movie and gaming sessions, but if the ZS10 Pro is overall the better bang for the buck, then i will roll with that.

any thoughts?  (I mean, i do have the TH-X00 PH for gaming and movies, i guess I just answered myself?)


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Its crazy, but I know by the time I receive them c10 pro will be out, and so on and so on...


----------



## KimChee

Very interested in your impressions once you get them...I’m hoping they’re a bit more V shaped than the CCA C16



moisespr123 said:


> My AS16 has been shipped!


----------



## KimChee

I think ZS7 has better sub bass, but ZS10 pro has bigger soundstage and for gaming spatial cues will be more accurate with ZS10Pro.  ZS10Pro also has better detail.  






macky112 said:


> hi all, i need some advise.
> 
> I have the ZS5V1 but I want to get a new IEM, and it came down to ZS7 and ZS10 Pro.
> 
> ...


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Its crazy, but I know by the time I receive them c10 pro will be out, and so on and so on...



Then the ZS8 Super Pro Extreme Gold Edition will be out lol


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Then the ZS8 Super Pro Extreme Gold Edition will be out lol


Im waiting for those.


----------



## courierdriver

randomnin said:


> Stupid human body parts, utterly unreliable. Where are my aftermarket android-ears already? I want to go cyborg stat!


WHAT???!!! You mean that aftermarket android ears AREN'T already available on Aliexpress for around $50 (plus free shipping)??!! Somebody needs to make these NOW!


----------



## courierdriver

eclein said:


> I'm all like "oh yes give me 100 BA's a side" but I'm not thinking about this new one (AS16) at all for some reason. The reason being, I think, is the ZS10 Pro! I had in my ears for like 2 days right off the bat. I was listening to music and not an iem......do you guys follow me.....this ZS10 Pro has me tickled pink and gives me zero reason right now to look at anything else.
> Am I alone in that or do some of you feel sorta the same way??


I hope I end up feeling the same way. Mine just shipped yesterday from Ali. Hope they get here within the next week or so. I'm looking forward to a less expensive daily driver for my KPE. After all the reviews, posts and feedback; I'm really excited to get them.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Then the ZS8 Super Pro Extreme Gold Edition will be out lol


If it's $75 or less, I'm in!


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> If it's $75 or less, I'm in!



It’s KZ - you know it will be!

It will start out at $140, and within a month be on sale for $35 haha


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Omg, I read a bad "review/comment" on the ZS10 Pro from a watcher of Bad Guy Audio Reviews YouTube channel. They're rolling in...  Bad reviews. Hopefully, no more...


If you can post a link, I'd love to read what they said. Prolly just someone who doesn't like HBB and was trying to discredit him. There's alot of those types around, from what I've seen.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> Bad Slater!


Ok, so where do I find the emoji that shows a hand slapping a butt? If it exists, that's the one I'm putting here! Lol!


----------



## macky112

I have a ZS5V1 and I want to get upgrade cable for it. Bring type A, is it easier to mod a type B cable or type C cable to be used with ZS5?  And how to go about modding such cable?

I have a ZST that is type B and that type B cable doesn’t fit the ZS5


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> I have a ZS5V1 and I want to get upgrade cable for it. Bring type A, is it easier to mod a type B cable or type C cable to be used with ZS5?  And how to go about modding such cable?
> 
> I have a ZST that is type B and that type B cable doesn’t fit the ZS5



Wait, if you're going to guy an upgrade cable, no need to mod a Type B or Type C cable to work with Type A. Just get one that works with Type A to begin with.

As far as stock cables, Type A cables fit Type B IEMs (although there's a gap around the plug), but not the other way around.

What exact upgrade cable were you considering? Some of the 3rd party cables won't really fit properly (kind of a janky ghetto fit), depending on the length of the 2-pin protrusion (some do, some don't; it depends on the specific cable). But the genuine KZ upgrade cables fit perfectly, assuming you get the Para A for the ZS5.

Let us know what specific upgrade cable you're considering and we'll let you know if it will fit or not.


----------



## fluteloop

sino8r said:


> To those who's ZS10 Pros have arrived... Is there driver flex like the ZS7s?
> 
> Will driving flex decrease the life of a dynamic driver?



no, you might hear some odd noises if it was flexxed real bad but only under heavy listening... i've had a few bad flexxers in my time and I havent had any fail on me... I have had a few drivers make strange buzzing noises at certain frequencies, I doubt you will notice unless you're really giving it stink.


----------



## SiggyFraud

macky112 said:


> I have a ZS5V1 and I want to get upgrade cable for it. Bring type A, is it easier to mod a type B cable or type C cable to be used with ZS5?  And how to go about modding such cable?
> 
> I have a ZST that is type B and that type B cable doesn’t fit the ZS5


I strongly recommend the new KZ 8-core silver-copper cable (https://bit.ly/2vIVI6j). I feel like it gave my ZS5v1 a whole new life. Plus, it doesn't have the wired earguides, so there's really no need to mod it. Unless you're not OK with the pre-formed earhooks, it can be used as is straight from the box.


----------



## nxnje

sino8r said:


> To those who's ZS10 Pros have arrived... Is there driver flex like the ZS7s?
> 
> Will driving flex decrease the life of a dynamic driver?



My zs7 doesn't have driver flex at all.
I've experienced it on some of my IEMs particularly on the MEMT X5 but i think it can be due to glue in wrong places (vent holes) or sometimes faulty units and bad soldering.
Anyway, driver flax can reduce the life the IEMs if it involves the soldering of the DD, as maybe you still press the IEMs in the ears and the DD could start moving.
But that only in the case the DD was really bad soldered and bad assembled in the shell.
In any other case driver flex is there because of glue on vent holes and it can depend on your tips or ear canal.
For example, if you have a vent hole on the nozzle and u push the tips covering the vent, you can higher your chance to get a driver flex. 

My tip is to try pushing very gently in the vent with a seewing needle in order to remove the bad glue that is maybe limiting the air flow through the hole.

There can be many exceptions: for example my MEMT X5 has driver flex and i tried to push with the seewing needle getting no result
I've ended to the conclusion it is a factory defect, a faulty unit.

My zs7 hasn't driver flex as the vent is well positioned and shouldn't make you cover even if you push the shell to your ears.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 8, 2019)

macky112 said:


> I have a ZS5V1.


I'm curious since everyone says this is the best model unless ZS6 has taken over that I'm not aware of.

Have you compared the ZS5V1 to newer KZs? How does it stand up?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 8, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I have found myself reaching for my ZS7 more than the C16.


Some are saying the ZS10 Pro are the best KZ. I hope they aren't being ignorant and have at least compared them to the ZS7 first.

 It's weird how everytime a new model comes out, it's the best. Back in the day only the ZS5V1 or ZS6 was the best... now it's every new KZ!


----------



## Nimweth

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Some are saying the ZS10 Pro are the best KZ. I hope they aren't being ignorant and have at least compared them to the ZS7 first.
> 
> It's weird how everytime a new model comes out, it's the best. Back in the day only the ZS5V1 or ZS6 was the best... now it's every new KZ!


I suppose there may be a grain of truth in it because of technological advances but sometimes hype and enthusiasm take over. The ZS7 is certainly my best KZ so far, (I have the ZSN Pro coming soon). I just find I'm enjoying my music more on the ZS7.


----------



## moisespr123 (May 8, 2019)

My AS16 tracking number says "Shipment Canceled"... Anyone has experienced this before?

UPDATE: They seem to have shipped it again.


----------



## Nimweth

My ZS7 with blue silver plated cable. Looks cool, sounds great!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Has anyone tried TRN BT cables with ZSN? Is it okay to use or should I go for KZ C-pin ones? Have heard KZ cables have connectivity issues hence contemplating TRN cables.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dani157 said:


> Has anyone tried TRN BT cables with ZSN? Is it okay to use or should I go for KZ C-pin ones? Have heard KZ cables have connectivity issues hence contemplating TRN cables.


 

Maybe not the best looking bit doable.  ZSN sounds great through them. Plenty of power. Just don't sit on them as you could bend them pins.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

BadReligionPunk said:


> Maybe not the best looking bit doable.  ZSN sounds great through them. Plenty of power. Just don't sit on them as you could bend them pins.



Thanks for the tip. Post this, the cables will still be changeable or it's fit and forget due to odd fitting?


----------



## moisespr123

The TRN BT20 actually fits fine in my ZS10 Pro, which has the same form factor as the ZSN. I just don't use the BT20 behind my ears as the IEM doesn't make a good seal, but other than that, it works fine and isn't heavy. I can walk around and they will not fall.


----------



## KimChee

I actually don’t mind the looks of that...I’ll have to look at the wireless item thread sometime...I still like my fancy boutique cables lol



BadReligionPunk said:


> Maybe not the best looking bit doable.  ZSN sounds great through them. Plenty of power. Just don't sit on them as you could bend them pins.


----------



## BoZ29

After months of listening I am still 100 % satisfied with my zs7. What a great set of iems. As I play in a band I am listening for hours to music I have to practice and play. And every time it puts a great smile on my face. For the money they are such good musical partners, I think I buy an extra set, for if they get lost somehow somewhere.


----------



## Slater

moisespr123 said:


> The TRN BT20 actually fits fine in my ZS10 Pro, which has the same form factor as the ZSN. I just don't use the BT20 behind my ears as the IEM doesn't make a good seal, but other than that, it works fine and isn't heavy. I can walk around and they will not fall.



Actually, you just gave me an idea of what I can do with my BT20...


----------



## Superluc (May 8, 2019)

Still disappointed by the ZSN Pro's tuning. They are just too bright and splashy. Extension but without control.

There is enough bass and impact per se, but even so is not enough to match the boosted treble and the resulting harshness.

I've tried to EQ them a bit trying to match antdroid's graphs and understand a bit how the ZS10 Pro may sound. Lower the ZSN Pro higher peaks appear to be the way to make these listenable.

I personally recommend to skip the ZSN Pro and, eventually, buy the ZS10 Pro, waiting a bit for a lower price.


----------



## eclein

I started using stock medium tips that came on my KZ ZS10, I had a bunch of appointments today, bus rides, people everywhere and I felt like they had little isolation, if I held them in, pushed in a bit it was better so I got home and installed some foam tips comply or similar. It really brings out the details, isolates better and now they simply sound wonderful!!!!!!
The mids are perfect to me, everything about fit finish all of it is here and I saw some on AE for $33 that's an incredible buy I think. Might have to get 2 of these like I did with the DT6s.


----------



## macky112 (May 8, 2019)

Slater said:


> Wait, if you're going to guy an upgrade cable, no need to mod a Type B or Type C cable to work with Type A. Just get one that works with Type A to begin with.
> 
> As far as stock cables, Type A cables fit Type B IEMs (although there's a gap around the plug), but not the other way around.
> 
> ...



after my PM discussion with @hakuzen, I learned that by using an upgraded cable, it could help bring out a better listening experience from my ZS5V1, so I wanted to give this $3 special a try, but they only have type B and type C connectors, thus I asked the question if I can somehow mod them to fit

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...67-4eb9-98fe-a2895e6b59f5&transAbTest=ae803_5

and also, this one is a lil more expensive, but it looks like it is a Type A, and my question is, since I am planning to get a ZS10 Pro, so I want to try this upgrade cable for both ZS5V1 and ZS10 Pro, so will a type A cable work on the ZS10 Pro (which is type C?)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...able-2-5-3-5-4-4mm-Plug-2Pin/32974695270.html


----------



## macky112

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm curious since everyone says this is the best model unless ZS6 has taken over that I'm not aware of.
> 
> Have you compared the ZS5V1 to newer KZs? How does it stand up?



ZS5V1 was my last KZ purchase, and this hobby itch is making me want to make another purchase, thus I asked about ZS7 vs ZS10 Pro and how they compare to my ZS5V1 in an earlier post.

right now I am going to get an upgraded cable for the ZS5V1 and then I am leaning towards picking up a pair of ZS10 Pro


----------



## Slater (May 8, 2019)

Check it out...I present the "Flip Tip" mod for your Starline eartips.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/


----------



## jibberish

The ZS10 Pro is fun.  Very fun tuning, nice soundstage for the price range, and a comfortable fit.  The bass is definitely an upgrade over the regular ZS10, which I always felt had a nice tonality, but just felt a bit loose/spongy sounding. I was worried initially that the ZS10 Pro might be fatiguing in the high end (which would also have been a big difference compared to the original ZS10), but after tip and cable rolling I have settled on a combo that sounds really nice: silver KZ type C cable that I had got for my ZSN + tips that came with the TFZ Series 2.

The one area that I think the original ZS10 is better than the Pro is layering and detail separation.  Ultimately though the Pro seems like a nice improvement compared to the original when you look at the whole package (especially fit + comfort).


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Check it out...I present the "Flip Tip" mod.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/


Thanks for this! I'm gonna try this out when I get some free time. I have the stock tips that came with my KPE and I dont like the fit or seal that they provide. Tbh, I'm not really a fan of most silicon tips, which is why I like the New Bee foams. This idea of yours might change my mind. It costs nothing and since I'm not using the silicones anyway, why not? Thanks again!


----------



## neo_styles

Trying this out with the T2 Pro right now. One of my biggest gripes with using any tips on that IEM tend to be that I have to push them in pretty deep to get a good seal, but the extra length given by the tip mod definitely helps with that. As Slater's said, the tip itself is much grippier now and getting a good seal is pretty much effortless. Healthy amount of suction, though, so be prepared for that. Combine these tips with a little tape over the inside bore and the T2 not only isolate extremely well, but there's a significant boost in comfort and tonal balance. They're still treble cannons without the tape, though.

Units without a nozzle lip might be frustrating for some people.


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> Trying this out with the T2 Pro right now. One of my biggest gripes with using any tips on that IEM tend to be that I have to push them in pretty deep to get a good seal, but the extra length given by the tip mod definitely helps with that. As Slater's said, the tip itself is much grippier now and getting a good seal is pretty much effortless. Healthy amount of suction, though, so be prepared for that. Combine these tips with a little tape over the inside bore and the T2 not only isolate extremely well, but there's a significant boost in comfort and tonal balance. They're still treble cannons without the tape, though.
> 
> Units without a nozzle lip might be frustrating for some people.



Awesome, thanks for checking! I’ll definitely try them in my T2.

I’ve always had fitment issues with the T2 because I just couldn’t find a tip with a long enough core to space the T2 away from my ear a bit. The SpinFits worked the best, but I just didn’t like how they affected the sound.

So the T2 sit in my drawer unused.

Now I have a reason to pull them out and see if I can put them to good use!


----------



## voicemaster

Superluc said:


> Still disappointed by the ZSN Pro's tuning. They are just too bright and splashy. Extension but without control.
> 
> There is enough bass and impact per se, but even so is not enough to match the boosted treble and the resulting harshness.
> 
> ...



Oh wow, I don't feel any brightness you experienced with my zsn pro. It is brigther for sure, but its way less than zs6 level. I would even say the treble is pretty smooth and I am using the starline tip that came standard on the box. I like the zsn pro sound better than zs7 and c10 actually. Not saying them bad, but zsn pro sounds pretty complete for me. C10 has great treble and airy, but lacking in the bass. While zs7 lacks in treble extension, but has sweet bass.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 8, 2019)

Superluc said:


> Still disappointed by the ZSN Pro's tuning. I personally recommend to skip the ZSN Pro and, eventually, buy the ZS10 Pro, waiting a bit for a lower price.


I recommend skipping the ZSN as well and buy the KZ ATR!

KZ, discontinue both.


----------



## zozito

Mates, for KZS5, both v.1 and v.2, which of the following cables will have a better match? Thank you in advance:
€ 7,04  31%de DESCUENTO | KZ ZS10 2Pin trenzado de plata Chapado en Cable dedicado 2PIN Cable de actualización para KZ ZSA/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 /ED16 KZ ZST/ES3/ES4/AS10/AS06/BA10
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cqN0mHCk

€ 6,74  46%de DESCUENTO | KZ 3,5mm 2Pin/conector MMCX 8 Core de plata de cobre mixta Cable uso para SE846 KZ ZS4/ZS5 /ZS6/ZSA/ED16/ZST/ES4/ZS10/AS10/AS10/BA10
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cdiZzyDw

€ 6,68  54%de DESCUENTO | TRN MMCX/2Pin conector 3,5/2,5 mmBalanced 8 Core de plata de cobre mixta Cable para TFZ TRN V80/ IM1 ES4 AS10 ZS10 BA10 NICEHCK M6/N3
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cFpcuOPW


----------



## tmpsn

Just got a pair of KZ ZS10 Pros in so I figured I’d leave some quick impressions here: Overall they’re a very natural sounding earphone with a neutral tuning, similar to the T2. In my experience though, they’re more comfortable with the over-ear fit + smooth plastic shell. 
I was a bit suspicious of what seemed like a trend of just "more drivers" by KZ, but these actually seem to be a pretty solid buy for the price. Perhaps I'll have to try some of the 8 driver iems soon...

Also I actually really like the stock cable that comes with these, much more than say the ZS5/6 cables. Those I upgraded immediately, but this one seems pretty well built imo.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> Awesome, thanks for checking! I’ll definitely try them in my T2.
> 
> I’ve always had fitment issues with the T2 because I just couldn’t find a tip with a long enough core to space the T2 away from my ear a bit. The SpinFits worked the best, but I just didn’t like how they affected the sound.
> 
> ...


Have you tried Spiral Dots? I have just got the T3 and the nozzle is very short. I believe the T2 is similar. I obtained a very good fit because of the domed shape of the tips.


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> Have you tried Spiral Dots? I have just got the T3 and the nozzle is very short. I believe the T2 is similar. I obtained a very good fit because of the domed shape of the tips.



I’ve never tried them because I don’t know if I’d use SM, M, or ML. And at $15-$20 a pack, I’d have to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to find out.

I wish they had a starter pack or find-your-fit assortment type pack, because I would pay $20 to get (1) of each size to find my best fit.


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> I’ve never tried them because I don’t know if I’d use SM, M, or ML. And at $15-$20 a pack, I’d have to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to find out.
> 
> I wish they had a starter pack or find-your-fit assortment type pack, because I would pay $20 to get (1) of each size to find my best fit.





Slater said:


> I’ve never tried them because I don’t know if I’d use SM, M, or ML. And at $15-$20 a pack, I’d have to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to find out.
> 
> I wish they had a starter pack or find-your-fit assortment type pack, because I would pay $20 to get (1) of each size to find my best fit.



Since you have other tips that fit you, you could narrow it down by what size fits you from your current ones vs dimensions of the spiral dots.



willowbrook said:


> Spinfit sizes
> L: 13mm
> M: 12mm
> S: 11mm
> ...


----------



## Superluc (May 9, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Oh wow, I don't feel any brightness you experienced with my zsn pro. It is brigther for sure, but its way less than zs6 level. I would even say the treble is pretty smooth and I am using the starline tip that came standard on the box. I like the zsn pro sound better than zs7 and c10 actually. Not saying them bad, but zsn pro sounds pretty complete for me. C10 has great treble and airy, but lacking in the bass. While zs7 lacks in treble extension, but has sweet bass.


At least with mine pair of ZSN Pro, and sources, i feel like the tracks have the cymbals ahead of where they better be, more sibilance than the ZSN and a brighter and harsher experience overall.

Something in the vocal is smoother ( lower 3k ), something else is not ( the 5k peak of the graph is definitely there ).

My pair of ZS6 is darker and smoother than that, but less airy and full, perhaps also because of lower 5k to 8k. They are very uncontrolled above, but react better to higher impedance output, foams and are easier to be EQed. I not using them, nor recommend to using them, as stock.

I'm not saying that the ZSN Pro are garbage, but i don't feel them to be a good all-rounder. I still prefer the ZSN tonality and overall experience, even with less soundstage and details.
So, thinking about what i'm looking from the graphs i was pointing out, if on the market there is a model using the same DD, but with a frequency response that show that the same peaks has been fixed to sound better ( as to me the ZSN Pro sound better lowering exactly only those four peaks, something not easy to do on portable equipments ), i think that there's actually no reasons to buy them now.


----------



## chickenmoon

Slater said:


> I’ve never tried them because I don’t know if I’d use SM, M, or ML. And at $15-$20 a pack, I’d have to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to find out.
> 
> I wish they had a starter pack or find-your-fit assortment type pack, because I would pay $20 to get (1) of each size to find my best fit.



The relatively cheap co-donguri earphones have spinfits (S, M & L) bundled with them.


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2019)

chickenmoon said:


> The relatively cheap co-donguri earphones have spinfits (S, M & L) bundled with them.



Good to know. Although, the cheapest co-donguri I could find is $70-$80.

Luckily, a full SML set of wide bore SpinFits are included with the Rosewill EX500.

I actually like the sound of the wide bore SpinFits on other IEMs much better than the narrow bore CP100 tips I had purchased separately.

At $12.99, you get a nice piezo hybrid IEM along with the tips. A bargain for sure, when the tips alone would cost more than that.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> I’ve never tried them because I don’t know if I’d use SM, M, or ML. And at $15-$20 a pack, I’d have to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to find out.
> 
> I wish they had a starter pack or find-your-fit assortment type pack, because I would pay $20 to get (1) of each size to find my best fit.


I understand. I believe Auvio tips are similar to Spiral Dots, could you try those?


----------



## chickenmoon (May 9, 2019)

Slater said:


> Good to know. Although, the cheapest co-donguri I could find is $70-$80.
> 
> Luckily, a full SML set of wide bore SpinFits are included with the Rosewill EX500.
> 
> ...



Cheapest one on eBay is £35 here with free shipping from Japan but it's a brass edition and the one I've got is the regular one which seems to be more expensive now, I paid £35 when I bought it a year and a half ago. I can't be sure if the brass ones have spinfits too.

I can't find those Rosewill in the UK, not on Amazon, not on eBay, not on Ali.


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I understand. I believe Auvio tips are similar to Spiral Dots, could you try those?



Yeah, I have a boatload of Auvio tips and love them. That’s the primary reason why I was never in a big rush to get the overpriced Spiral Dot tips. They’re very similar according to most accounts.


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2019)

chickenmoon said:


> I can't find those Rosewill in the UK, not on Amazon, not on eBay, not on Ali.



It’s likely a US-only thing.

Besides, the $12.99 is a close out price. The normal price of them was much higher.

You Brits get some crazy good UK-only deals on stuff too (like the recent MP80), so don’t feel too bad on some of these US-only deals 

BTW, I just checked, and the $12.99 ones re all gone. I think I just got the last pair at that price.


----------



## Wiljen

Just about got my Zs10 Pro notes done.  It might actually deserve the moniker pro when compared to the original ZS10.   It could still use a bit more clean-up of the tuning but for $50 hard to complain too much.   The Zsn Pro and Zs10 Pro give me hope that they are listening to feedback.  Now if they'd do something about that wretched cable.   $50 headphone and a cable not fit to be a bread tie.


----------



## khighly (May 9, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> Just about got my Zs10 Pro notes done.  It might actually deserve the moniker pro when compared to the original ZS10.   It could still use a bit more clean-up of the tuning but for $50 hard to complain too much.   The Zsn Pro and Zs10 Pro give me hope that they are listening to feedback.  Now if they'd do something about that wretched cable.   $50 headphone and a cable not fit to be a bread tie.



My IT03's came with essentially the same cable I just got from TRN for $4. Does it deliver sound? Yes. Technically they could move the splitter up a bit and maybe give an adjustable clip, but it does what it's supposed to do.


----------



## durwood

Wiljen said:


> Just about got my Zs10 Pro notes done.  It might actually deserve the moniker pro when compared to the original ZS10.   It could still use a bit more clean-up of the tuning but for $50 hard to complain too much.   The Zsn Pro and Zs10 Pro give me hope that they are listening to feedback.  Now if they'd do something about that wretched cable.   $50 headphone and a cable not fit to be a bread tie.



Looking forward to it, curious how it compares the ZS7, I am in the resisting a new toy phase. Only one review out, but mostly just teasers and what appears sales propaganda from everyone else.


----------



## khighly

durwood said:


> what appears sales propaganda from everyone else.


Lol what?


----------



## pbui44

khighly said:


> Lol what?



No, it’s “lol wut”.


----------



## durwood

khighly said:


> Lol what?



Some of the early reviews or "unboxings" did not contain any real info other than flashing around the shiny back plate. I was just annoyed at spending time listening or reading early unboxing events with no real substance on how it sounds. I appreciate the ones who only release their full review and not teasers designed to get people "pumped up". Silly me though, this is the world we live in today.


----------



## B9Scrambler

durwood said:


> Some of the early reviews or "unboxings" did not contain any real info other than flashing around the shiny back plate. I was just annoyed at spending time listening or reading early unboxing events with no real substance on how it sounds. I appreciate the ones who only release their full review and not teasers designed to get people "pumped up". Silly me though, this is the world we live in today.



Yeah man. Those shameless shilly previews. Like this nerds' "First Look". Pure propaganda!!! https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/04/28/kz-zs10-pro-first-look/


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> Good to know. Although, the cheapest co-donguri I could find is $70-$80.
> 
> Luckily, a full SML set of wide bore SpinFits are included with the Rosewill EX500.
> 
> ...


Not to threadjack (okay, no more than already), but what *would* be the standalone Spinfit equivalent to the ones that came with the Rosewills?  Had been meaning to ask and then got distracted by I don't even remember what by this point...


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> Not to threadjack (okay, no more than already), but what *would* be the standalone Spinfit equivalent to the ones that came with the Rosewills?  Had been meaning to ask and then got distracted by I don't even remember what by this point...



Well, SpinFits are unique in that they’re the only ones that pivot. No other tips do that, as they’re patented.

So there is no equivalent.


----------



## durwood (May 9, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Yeah man. Those shameless shilly previews. Like this nerds' "First Look". Pure propaganda!!! https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/04/28/kz-zs10-pro-first-look/



"Be on the lookout for a full review soon."

Yes that is one example of many. Since that is your blog, why not release a full review without the "first look"? Is it that competitive to get yours out first? I mean come on...thephonograph beat all of you and I would rather not scroll through a billion affiliate links


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> Well, SpinFits are unique in that they’re the only ones that pivot. No other tips do that, as they’re patented.
> 
> So there is no equivalent.


I meant which Spinfit model would I buy if I wanted the same thing again.


----------



## B9Scrambler

durwood said:


> "Be on the lookout for a full review soon."
> 
> Yes that is one example of many. Since that is your blog, why not release a full review without the "first look"? Is it that competitive to get yours out first? I mean come on...thephonograph beat all of you and I would rather not scroll through a billion affiliate links



I like to share images and some brief first impressions after a couple days of use because people often ask for them and are curious. In regards to releasing a full review and skipping the 'first look', I need to spend a significant amount of time listening to a product to formulate firm enough impressions for an actual review. That takes a couple weeks at least. I can't just listen for a couple hours, describe a graph, half-ass the rest of the experience, and call it a day. If there are a bunch of reviewers covering something, I'm _usually_ among the last to get my final impressions out there, well after the rush and/or hype has died down, with some exceptions of course.

On another note, be on the lookout for some first impressions of these and some earphone called the DMS in a couple days.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Slater said:


> I’ve never tried them because I don’t know if I’d use SM, M, or ML. And at $15-$20 a pack, I’d have to spend a ridiculous amount of money just to find out.
> 
> I wish they had a starter pack or find-your-fit assortment type pack, because I would pay $20 to get (1) of each size to find my best fit.


If you were interested in trying one of each, I see Penon Audio will let you pick and choose any three sizes for $9.90.  Still more than Auvios go for by far, but at least it would save you from having to buy multiple three-packs of the different sizes.

https://penonaudio.com/jvc-spiral-dot-silicone-eartips.html


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> I meant which Spinfit model would I buy if I wanted the same thing again.



Oh I see what you mean. No clue.

I’ll take a look at their website later and let you know. There’s only a few single flange models it can be, and it’s definitely not CP100.


----------



## groucho69

B9Scrambler said:


> Yeah man. Those shameless shilly previews. Like this nerds' "First Look". Pure propaganda!!! https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/04/28/kz-zs10-pro-first-look/



I always suspected...


----------



## Slater (May 9, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> I like to share images and some brief first impressions after a couple days of use because people often ask for them and are curious. In regards to releasing a full review and skipping the 'first look', I need to spend a significant amount of time listening to a product to formulate firm enough impressions for an actual review. That takes a couple weeks at least. I can't just listen for a couple hours, describe a graph, half-ass the rest of the experience, and call it a day. If there are a bunch of reviewers covering something, I'm _usually_ among the last to get my final impressions out there, well after the rush and/or hype has died down, with some exceptions of course.
> 
> On another note, be on the lookout for some first impressions of these and some earphone called the DMS in a couple days.



Agreed. Plus, 99% of us have full time jobs, family commitments, etc. We do this for the love of the hobby.

I know we live in an impatient society nowadays, where everyone wants and expects everything *now! now! now!*

But like you, I take my time and don’t half-ass anything I do.

I worked for a manager once that wanted a huge IT project done in 3 weeks that would normally take 3 months. I told him “That would be a RGE for both of us. I do good work and don’t half-ass things I put my name on, especially things I am responsible for supporting after it’s implemented.”

He said “why do good work when ok is good enough?”

Needless to say, I promptly gave him a letter of resignation.


----------



## durwood (May 9, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> On another note, be on the lookout for some first impressions of these and some earphone called the DMS in a couple days.



Interested in both, more so the DMS so thanks tease. I skipped the CCA16, might skip the AS16.



Slater said:


> Agreed. Plus, 99% of us have full time jobs, family commitments, etc. We do this for the love of the hobby.
> 
> I know we live in an impatient society nowadays, where everyone wants and expects everything *now! now! now!*



Exactly, that is why less is more...if you take away the teasers, it leaves more time for reviewing and enjoying life. But I don't run a blog, take part in social media or do reviews so what do I know.

Again wasn't singling out anyone, I can pull up at least 3 promotions, all 3 received from linsoul, all published end of April so I assume as part of the deal they wanted press coverage. Now, get going with those reviews...NOW! NOW! NOW!


----------



## KimChee

Nice!  Burn those babies in and I hope we get some impressions soon...



B9Scrambler said:


> I like to share images and some brief first impressions after a couple days of use because people often ask for them and are curious. In regards to releasing a full review and skipping the 'first look', I need to spend a significant amount of time listening to a product to formulate firm enough impressions for an actual review. That takes a couple weeks at least. I can't just listen for a couple hours, describe a graph, half-ass the rest of the experience, and call it a day. If there are a bunch of reviewers covering something, I'm _usually_ among the last to get my final impressions out there, well after the rush and/or hype has died down, with some exceptions of course.
> 
> On another note, be on the lookout for some first impressions of these and some earphone called the DMS in a couple days.


----------



## B9Scrambler (May 17, 2019)

durwood said:


> Interested in both, more so the DMS so thanks tease. I skipped the CCA16, might skip the AS16.
> 
> Exactly, that is why less is more...if you take away the teasers, it leaves more time for reviewing and enjoying life. But I don't run a blog, take part in social media or do reviews so what do I know.
> 
> Again wasn't singling out anyone, I can pull up at least 3 promotions, all 3 received from linsoul so I assume as part of the deal they wanted press coverage. Now, get going with those review...NOW! NOW! NOW!



AS16 imo is good, but not a must have. You're not missing out on much by skipping it. *(EDIT: This was supposed to say C16, but I suppose it applies to the AS16 as well. It's not a good all-rounder.)*

I get what you mean about leaving out the teasers to spend more time elsewhere, but they help prevent tons of questions which can take a lot of time answering, esp. if they're looking for comparisons. The teaser doesn't have those, but they can request something in the comments and I'll try to work it into the review. Just as certain review formats have become somewhat standard, teasers seem to be heading that way as well. Honestly I'd rather have them than not. Pictures can be helpful, even if the written content isn't.

In regards to Linsoul, yeah, she sends out a lot of samples to lots of reviewers. Can't speak to anyone else, but she lets me review at my own pace since she knows I like to take my time, and right now I've got stuff going on in my personal life that means I have to put aside reviews for a few days at a time. No pressure for previews or rushed reviews, though sometimes she will ask to have a review up earlier than normal (ex. DM7 in time for it's Drop campaign). Even still, it's a request and not a demand or requirement. If I can get in enough listening time to write a review I'm satisfied with, I'll do it. Otherwise, it'll be done when it's done. Can't say the same for another retailer that used to send me samples. Their reminders to get the reviews out and their upset when the review wasn't positive, well, it was disconcerting. Safe to say I don't work with them anymore. Linsoul is much more flexible and accepting of negative reviews since she can drop that product and sell something worthwhile instead.


----------



## zozito

zozito said:


> Mates, for KZS5, both v.1 and v.2, which of the following cables will have a better match? Thank you in advance:
> € 7,04  31%de DESCUENTO | KZ ZS10 2Pin trenzado de plata Chapado en Cable dedicado 2PIN Cable de actualización para KZ ZSA/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 /ED16 KZ ZST/ES3/ES4/AS10/AS06/BA10
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cqN0mHCk
> 
> ...


Anybody, please?


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> AS16 imo is good, but not a must have. You're not missing out on much by skipping it.
> 
> I get what you mean about leaving out the teasers to spend more time elsewhere, but they help prevent tons of questions which can take a lot of time answering, esp. if they're looking for comparisons. The teaser doesn't have those, but they can request something in the comments and I'll try to work it into the review.




Of all of your reviews the ZS10Pro is my favorite. I have the C10, BA10 & ZS6 and I am most interested in how the 10Pro differs. I've postponed purchasing several of the newer models because I get much of what I'm looking for via the ZS6, BA10 & C10. That said, your comparisons tackled my main questions regarding overall presentation. Even though the BA10 and 10Pro are similar it seems as though I need to order the 10Pro to use as a reference point since so few own the BA10. I'm sure I'll enjoy the 10Pro if it's nearly on par with the BA10. 

Looking into the C16 and AS16 but (from your comparison in the review) it appears that the ZS7 is specifically what I've been wanting for a long time; namely an on-the-go ZS6 (reigned in treble). 

Very helpful review for my decision making. Much appreciated. 





B9Scrambler said:


> In regards to Linsoul, yeah, she sends out a lot of samples to lots of reviewers. Can't speak to anyone else, but she lets me review at my own pace since she knows I like to take my time.....
> 
> Linsoul is much more flexible and accepting of negative reviews since she can drop that product and sell something worthwhile instead.



Kudos to Linsoul. I'll keep her in mind for future purchases.


----------



## macky112 (May 9, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Yeah man. Those shameless shilly previews. Like this nerds' "First Look". Pure propaganda!!! https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/04/28/kz-zs10-pro-first-look/



I just read your full review on the ZS10 Pro, and I wish I saw it sooner as I just ordered a ZS10 Pro yesterday thinking it may be a better "value" over the ZS7...

had I known ZS10 Pro and ZS7 are performing on the same level, and being similarly priced, my preferred sound signature would be the ZS7

oh well, such is the way with this hobby...  and thank you for the review.


----------



## HungryPanda

I do like the Linsoul gear very much


----------



## CYoung234

zozito said:


> Anybody, please?



I have the first cable in your list, and it is good. For general use, I actually like this one a bit better:

US $7.86  42%OFF | KZ ZSA/ZS3/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 1.2M High Purity Oxygen Free Copper Headset Silver Plated Wire 0.75mm Pin Upgrade Cable For Original
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bh25ACGu

Not sure if is available still. Oh, the TRN cable looks interesting, but I do not own one.


----------



## antdroid (May 10, 2019)

durwood said:


> Exactly, that is why less is more...if you take away the teasers, it leaves more time for reviewing and enjoying life. But I don't run a blog, take part in social media or do reviews so what do I know.
> 
> Again wasn't singling out anyone, I can pull up at least 3 promotions, all 3 received from linsoul, all published end of April so I assume as part of the deal they wanted press coverage. Now, get going with those reviews...NOW! NOW! NOW!





B9Scrambler said:


> I get what you mean about leaving out the teasers to spend more time elsewhere, but they help prevent tons of questions which can take a lot of time answering, esp. if they're looking for comparisons. The teaser doesn't have those, but they can request something in the comments and I'll try to work it into the review. Just as certain review formats have become somewhat standard, teasers seem to be heading that way as well. Honestly I'd rather have them than not. Pictures can be helpful, even if the written content isn't.
> 
> In regards to Linsoul, yeah, she sends out a lot of samples to lots of reviewers. Can't speak to anyone else, but she lets me review at my own pace since she knows I like to take my time, and right now I've got stuff going on in my personal life that means I have to put aside reviews for a few days at a time. No pressure for previews or rushed reviews, though sometimes she will ask to have a review up earlier than normal (ex. DM7 in time for it's Drop campaign). Even still, it's a request and not a demand or requirement. If I can get in enough listening time to write a review I'm satisfied with, I'll do it. Otherwise, it'll be done when it's done. Can't say the same for another retailer that used to send me samples. Their reminders to get the reviews out and their upset when the review wasn't positive, well, it was disconcerting. Safe to say I don't work with them anymore. Linsoul is much more flexible and accepting of negative reviews since she can drop that product and sell something worthwhile instead.



I'm assuming I'm one of the three reviews you're calling out since I had a very short (500 words), brief and I was hoping concise review of the ZS10 Pro (and ZSN Pro), which came from Linsoul.

I apologize it was short, and I've been alternating between short and long format reviews more recently because I am trying to listen to a lot of different stuff because people ask me to (not saying Linsoul or other companies, but people on HF or Reddit or my own personal interests), as well as just trying a different format. I have a busy life, with a full-time (+more) job that is completely different than audio, and a lot of hobbies and family to spend time with. I'm not a professional reviewer, and if I was, I am doing a horrible job at is, as I'm getting paid exactly $0 for this (besides random review samples which I usually give medicore reviews to anyway). I admit, my ZS10 Pro review was short and much shorter than the one before that which was the Solaris (which I paid for) and after that (the DM7). I just find that I will spend more effort on something that'll cost more if I have multiple things in my _queue_, and part of this is based on what comments and questions I've received. I get a lot more very specific comments on higher priced products than I ever do on budget stuff and I need to organize my free time in the most effective way possible. I'm always available to answer questions.

 My ZS10 Pro review was meant to be short and to the point though. I recommended it, and that's not very often for me to recommend a KZ IEM. (Only the ZSN is the other one I recommend).

As for Linsoul comments - I full support/backup @B9Scrambler 's comments. Lillian (of Linsoul) just sends reviewers stuff and doesn't typically request any timeline unless it's leading up to a pre-release event, but even then (and I've missed one time before) she's not pressuring you. Most of the IEMs I've been sent have gotten bad to average reviews and only a small handful have been well received by me. So I'm happy with this honest relationship and I've spent money on their store to support their nice service.

I have also gotten pressure from other people about changing my score (higher of course) and that's really lame. Email exchange quickly ended after that. 

Anyway, if there's any questions you have on the ZS10 Pro, I can try to answer them. I think they are a good budget IEM. I still recommend the Tin T3 over it though if you're ok spending a little bit more if you are looking for this type of sound signature.


----------



## durwood

B9Scrambler said:


> In regards to Linsoul, yeah, she sends out a lot of samples to lots of reviewers. Can't speak to anyone else, but she lets me review at my own pace since she knows I like to take my time, and right now I've got stuff going on in my personal life that means I have to put aside reviews for a few days at a time. No pressure for previews or rushed reviews, though sometimes she will ask to have a review up earlier than normal (ex. DM7 in time for it's Drop campaign). Even still, it's a request and not a demand or requirement. If I can get in enough listening time to write a review I'm satisfied with, I'll do it. Otherwise, it'll be done when it's done. Can't say the same for another retailer that used to send me samples. Their reminders to get the reviews out and their upset when the review wasn't positive, well, it was disconcerting. Safe to say I don't work with them anymore. Linsoul is much more flexible and accepting of negative reviews since she can drop that product and sell something worthwhile instead.



Interesting, thanks for pulling back the curtain, really had no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Thanks for the service you provide, I enjoyed your full review too. Enough to convince me to pick up the ZS10 pro since it might eek out a little extra upper treble compared to the ZS7. I love the ZS7, but it could use just a touch extra upper treble.


----------



## courierdriver

B9Scrambler said:


> AS16 imo is good, but not a must have. You're not missing out on much by skipping it.
> 
> I get what you mean about leaving out the teasers to spend more time elsewhere, but they help prevent tons of questions which can take a lot of time answering, esp. if they're looking for comparisons. The teaser doesn't have those, but they can request something in the comments and I'll try to work it into the review. Just as certain review formats have become somewhat standard, teasers seem to be heading that way as well. Honestly I'd rather have them than not. Pictures can be helpful, even if the written content isn't.
> 
> In regards to Linsoul, yeah, she sends out a lot of samples to lots of reviewers. Can't speak to anyone else, but she lets me review at my own pace since she knows I like to take my time, and right now I've got stuff going on in my personal life that means I have to put aside reviews for a few days at a time. No pressure for previews or rushed reviews, though sometimes she will ask to have a review up earlier than normal (ex. DM7 in time for it's Drop campaign). Even still, it's a request and not a demand or requirement. If I can get in enough listening time to write a review I'm satisfied with, I'll do it. Otherwise, it'll be done when it's done. Can't say the same for another retailer that used to send me samples. Their reminders to get the reviews out and their upset when the review wasn't positive, well, it was disconcerting. Safe to say I don't work with them anymore. Linsoul is much more flexible and accepting of negative reviews since she can drop that product and sell something worthwhile instead.


I'd like to throw my 2 cents in here also. @B9Scrambler, I like and appreciate your teasers. While they are not a full review, they generate enough interest on my part to wait for a full review. Also, over the past month or 2, I have been looking for a cheaper companion iem to use in place of my beloved Kanas Pro when I'm out on the bus or shopping. In doing my research, I stumbled across many reviews that that had your name attached to them, as well as links you have provided in these threads to your blog. I enjoy your writing style and your views have really helped me narrow down my search and option. Almost bought the TFZ King Exclusive, but felt it was a bit too pricey, so I decided to get ZS10 PRO instead. I'd like to encourage you to keep doing what you are doing and dont change anything unless YOU feel you need or want to. I think anyone who is a headfi member should consider themselves lucky to have someone like you who enjoys this hobby writing good, thorough, honest reviews. I for one, appreciate the work you do and it's helped me narrow down the vast number of choices available to a much smaller number. Keep up the great work, bro!


----------



## courierdriver

antdroid said:


> I'm assuming I'm one of the three reviews you're calling out since I had a very short, brief and I was hoping concise review of the ZS10 Pro (and ZSN Pro), which came from Linsoul.
> 
> I apologize it was short, and I've been alternating between short and long format reviews more recently because I am trying to listen to a lot of different stuff because people ask me to (not saying Linsoul or other companies, but people on HF or Reddit or my own personal interests), as well as just trying a different format. I have a very busy life, with a full-time (+more) job that is completely different than audio, and a lot of hobbies and family to spend time with. I'm not a professional reviewer, and if I was, I am doing a horrible job at is, as I'm getting paid exactly $0 for this (besides random review samples which I usually give medicore reviews to anyway). I admit, my ZS10 Pro review was short and much shorter than the one before that which was the Solaris (which I paid for) and after that (the DM7). I just find that I will spend more effort on something that'll cost more if I have multiple things in my queue, and part of this is based on what comments and questions I've received. I get a lot more very specific comments on higher priced products than I ever do on budget stuff and I need to organize my free time in the most effective way possible. I'm always available to answer questions.
> 
> ...


I was going to say something similar to this but you beat me to it. I dont think many people on these forums realize that those who review gear on headfi are not full time reviewers. There seems to be the mistaken impression that anyone who writes a review here is like a paid employee/writer for Stereophile or The Absolute Sound or something. Folks, let's remember that the people who write reviews in these threads are also just fellow headfiers who are looking to share their opinions and personal feelings about the items they review. No one is taking home a big fat check because they wrote their review. It's all just to help inform those of us in this community.


----------



## zozito

CYoung234 said:


> I have the first cable in your list, and it is good. For general use, I actually like this one a bit better:
> 
> US $7.86  42%OFF | KZ ZSA/ZS3/ZS4/ZS5/ZS6 1.2M High Purity Oxygen Free Copper Headset Silver Plated Wire 0.75mm Pin Upgrade Cable For Original
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bh25ACGu
> ...


Thank you, mate.


----------



## paulindss

Rocking with zs7s.

Very well rounded sound, i would like a bit less bass tho. Mids are recessed but have a nice timbre and body to it. More than average soundstage, no hint of sibilance and very nice highs. It is a very good V shape iem, bacause the sound have a very nice presentation and layering. It packs a weight and a very good dynamics. Bass have a very nice speed, the sound is tight and the mids-treble transition is smooth and coherent. Technically they do nothing actually wrong and are a easy listening experience, even having a lot of details and good treble energy. By memory they remind me of bgvp dmgs. I think kz is slowly and constantly stepping their game. I was curious about the zs10pro but accordingly to the great @B9Scrambler they are about the same with a bit more energy on treble, so i'm ok.
I will reveive the cca c10 also, let's see how they stack up.

The memory wire on stock cable is trash tho, i am using the cable that comes with the IKKO OH1.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Delete


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

paulindss said:


> Rocking with zs7s. By memory they remind me of bgvp dmgs. I think kz is slowly and constantly stepping their game. I was curious about the zs10pro but accordingly to the great @B9Scrambler they are about the same with a bit more energy on treble, so i'm ok.


People say the ZS7 look similar to a Campfire Audio model. I wonder if they sound similar too? I dont remember seeing someone talk about that.

Maybe KZ will start making IEMs that sound similar to others. 

Either way, is it true... if you have a ZS7, a ZS10 Pro purchase is just wasting your money?


----------



## Slater (May 10, 2019)

antdroid said:


> I'm not a professional reviewer, and if I was, I am doing a horrible job at is, as I'm getting paid exactly $0 for this





courierdriver said:


> No one is taking home a big fat check because they wrote their review. It's all just to help inform those of us in this community.



Everyone who does a review of a $12 budget headphone gets paid:


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

B9Scrambler said:


> AS16 imo is good, but not a must have. You're not missing out on much by skipping it.


Ouch, that doesn't sound good. Did KZ create a bum bum iem?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 10, 2019)

I was watching YouTube and saw some comments on the Moondrop Crescent. One person said it was 80% of the Kanas Pro and another said the CCA C10 was better. So I changed my mind to not buying the Crescent.

A lot of fanboys like the Kanas Pro. But is the sound signature considered tame? I have the Einsear T2 or whatever it's called which also follows the Harman Curve and compared to KZs it's very boring. KZ's are the best!


----------



## archdawg (May 10, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ's are the best!




Ya man! 
I'm still on the fence over the ZS7 though (all around better ZS6?). Since I usually prefer somewhat brighter phones I'd really like to know what they've done to get the steep treble roll-off of the 2 30095 BAs (maybe they've copied the ZS6 Slater mods, lol)

Has anyone taken a closer look at the crossover PCB?


----------



## Mybutthurts

B9Scrambler said:


> Yeah man. Those shameless shilly previews. Like this nerds' "First Look". Pure propaganda!!! https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/04/28/kz-zs10-pro-first-look/



I've just read your full review on KZ ZS10 Pro.
Thank you, I enjoyed that.


----------



## crabdog

Here are my thoughts on the ZS10 Pro for anyone interested.
https://primeaudio.org/kz-zs10-pro-review-cannibalized/


----------



## Wiljen (May 10, 2019)

Zs10pro and CCA CA4 reviews are up on the blog.  Should have them loaded here next week.

https://audiofool.reviews/2019/05/10/kz_zs10_pro/
https://audiofool.reviews/2019/05/10/cca_ca4/


----------



## macky112

so, with a couple of reviews out on the ZS10 Pro, is it safe to assume that in comparison to ZS7, there is no point owning both if you have either one?


----------



## Wiljen

macky112 said:


> so, with a couple of reviews out on the ZS10 Pro, is it safe to assume that in comparison to ZS7, there is no point owning both if you have either one?



I'm not sure I'd say there is no point in owning both, I do, but I will say, if you don't like one, you won't care for the other as they are more similar than not.   I think the 10 pro is a little less bass heavy and has slight improvements in the treble as well but both are incremental at best.


----------



## Slater (May 10, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> I'm not sure I'd say there is no point in owning both, I do, but I will say, if you don't like one, you won't care for the other as they are more similar than not.   I think the 10 pro is a little less bass heavy and has slight improvements in the treble as well but both are incremental at best.



I mentioned a few weeks ago that the crossover in my ZS10 Pro actually says ZS7 right on it lol

But as I said then, if you don’t like the ZS7 you won’t like the ZS10 Pro. However, if you do like the ZS7, but want a bit more oomph in the treble, the ZS10 Pro fits the bill.

I love the ZS7, and I think the ZS10 Pro is equally as good. However, if I had to pick one or the other, I’d go with the ZS10 Pro based on comfort of the shell alone.


----------



## macky112

I had some free time today so I dug up my ZST and ZS3 and compared it to my ZS5V1, and to my surprise, I noticed the following

source is Zishan DSD with Fiio A5 as the amp. (and using Monoprice 8320 modded with vent hole tape as a reference)

in terms of Quantity and not quality

bass: 8320 > ZST > ZS5V1 >= ZS3 (?!)
treble: ZS5V1 >= ZST > ZS3 > 8320
vocal: 8320 > ZS5V1 > ZST > ZS3

That bass comparison though... Am I loosing my mind or my hearing or both?!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 10, 2019)

archdawg said:


> Ya man!
> I'm still on the fence over the ZS7 though (all around better ZS6?). Since I usually prefer somewhat brighter phones.


It sounds like you're sitting on a white picket fence and wood is stuck in your bum . Get off the fence and check them out! The sale ends in a couple days. People were saying the ZS7 are the best KZ's a couple weeks ago.

After buying over ten KZ models, I agree.


----------



## Le Stef (May 10, 2019)

Delete


----------



## Le Stef

Slater said:


> I mentioned a few weeks ago that the crossover in my ZS10 Pro actually says ZS7 right on it lol
> 
> But as I said then, if you don’t like the ZS7 you won’t like the ZS10 Pro. However, if you do like the ZS7, but want a bit more oomph in the treble, the ZS10 Pro fits the bill.
> 
> I love the ZS7, and I think the ZS10 Pro is equally as good. However, if I had to pick one or the other, I’d go with the ZS10 Pro based on comfort of the shell alone.





Wiljen said:


> I'm not sure I'd say there is no point in owning both, I do, but I will say, if you don't like one, you won't care for the other as they are more similar than not. I think the 10 pro is a little less bass heavy and has slight improvements in the treble as well but both are incremental at best.



Hi Slater and Wiljen; thanks for your input.  I just sold a pair of AS10 and I will purchase either the ZS10 Pro or the ZS7 to replace them, but like many, I hesitate between both.  You are both clear on the treble: ZS10 Pro has more and some say it's more defined yet too aggressive.  Wiljen said the ZS7 has more bass; how would you define the bass difference between both?  Has the ZS7 a significantly more defined and more pronounced bass, or is it very close the ZS10 Pro?  

Currently, I lean towards the ZS10 Pro because of the shell for comfort and possibly better seal (I also own a CCA C10 and I use my IEM in the subway a lot, the shape is great), and the aesthetics, but this should not go over the sound quality.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 11, 2019)

Delete.


----------



## Le Stef (May 11, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You mention in your review that the sound signature of the ZS10 Pro is almost identical to the ZSN Pro. How so?
> 
> Who has compared the ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro with each other?



For what it's worth:


----------



## crabdog

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You mention in your review that the sound signature of the ZS10 Pro is almost identical to the ZSN Pro. How so?
> 
> Who has compared the ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro with each other?


Is that not clear enough?


----------



## antdroid

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You mention in your review that the sound signature of the ZS10 Pro is almost identical to the ZSN Pro. How so?
> 
> Who has compared the ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro with each other?



They are very similar except ZSN Pro is a little brighter. I wrote about it in my short review posted on head-fi and my blog, along with measurements, if you're into that thing.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

crabdog said:


> Is that not clear enough?


It was a bad post on my part. I wish I never wrote it.


----------



## Caipirina

Wiljen said:


> Zs10pro and CCA CA4 reviews are up on the blog.  Should have them loaded here next week.
> 
> https://audiofool.reviews/2019/05/10/cca_ca4/



Has anyone seen a sound comparison between the CCA CA4 and C04? I just keep confusing them as they are both 1BA+1DD and about the same price range ... thoughts?


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## LaughMoreDaily (May 11, 2019)

https://thecontraptionist.blog/2019/05/09/kz-zs10-pro-earns-the-pro-moniker/

B9Scrambler just killed it on his review of the ZS10 Pro on his Contraptionist blog. He writes so well it's like he's making love to every pair of earphones he discusses. Well, the models he loves anyway.

Spoiler: He still prefers the lonely KZ BA10 though. How many of you have stuck that in your ears and felt pleasured?


----------



## Wiljen (May 11, 2019)

Le Stef said:


> Hi Slater and Wiljen; thanks for your input.  I just sold a pair of AS10 and I will purchase either the ZS10 Pro or the ZS7 to replace them, but like many, I hesitate between both.  You are both clear on the treble: ZS10 Pro has more and some say it's more defined yet too aggressive.  Wiljen said the ZS7 has more bass; how would you define the bass difference between both?  Has the ZS7 a significantly more defined and more pronounced bass, or is it very close the ZS10 Pro?
> 
> Currently, I lean towards the ZS10 Pro because of the shell for comfort and possibly better seal (I also own a CCA C10 and I use my IEM in the subway a lot, the shape is great), and the aesthetics, but this should not go over the sound quality.



I think you are on the right path.  The shell on the 10p is better than the 7 for sure.  That alone would help make the decision for me.

The bass on the 7 is the same quality on the 10p, just not quite the quantity.  If I had to try and quantify it, and this is hard to think of good terms I'd say the 7 is 5-10% bigger in the mid-bass than the 10p and the sub-bass is probably 5-7% as it isn't quite as forward,but still noticeable at times. 

Honestly, I think unless you direct A/B the two with the same gear repeatedly, you could easily think they were identical. If you do A/B them, you'll hear the treble differences before you start noting the bass as it is more pronounced. 

Treble difference favors the 10p as the roll-off is later and the detail is better which are the things I notice first.  I don't think the 10p is too much in the treble and suspect those who have said it is too aggressive are more treble sensitive than most.  To me, the 6 and 5 were both over the top and the 10p and 7 are much more in line with the rest of the signature.

Hope that helps.

W


----------



## zazaboy

which one to buy if you want a smooth or safe treble ... the kz zs10 ... the kz zs10 pro or kz zs7?


----------



## PhonoPhi (May 11, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Has anyone seen a sound comparison between the CCA CA4 and C04? I just keep confusing them as they are both 1BA+1DD and about the same price range ... thoughts?


A brief comparison, since I have both.

CCA C04 was a first CCA IEM, it is based on KZ ZSA internals; it sounds a bit less V-shaped than ZSA to me, but bears a lot of similarities.

CCA CA4 is two generations ahead, a more refined hybrid with a quite focused DD and a nicely complimentary BA for the resolution.


----------



## Nimweth

My ZSN Pro arrived today. It's burning in now, first impressions are of a big, bold V shape with plenty of detail. I will see how the sound develops, but it's a fun tuning so far!


----------



## Le Stef

Wiljen said:


> I think you are on the right path.  The shell on the 10p is better than the 7 for sure.  That alone would help make the decision for me.
> 
> The bass on the 7 is the same quality on the 10p, just not quite the quantity.  If I had to try and quantify it, and this is hard to think of good terms I'd say the 7 is 5-10% bigger in the mid-bass than the 10p and the sub-bass is probably 5-7% as it isn't quite as forward,but still noticeable at times.
> 
> ...



Thanks Wiljen


----------



## macky112 (May 11, 2019)

Wiljen said:


> I think you are on the right path.  The shell on the 10p is better than the 7 for sure.  That alone would help make the decision for me.
> 
> The bass on the 7 is the same quality on the 10p, just not quite the quantity.  If I had to try and quantify it, and this is hard to think of good terms I'd say the 7 is 5-10% bigger in the mid-bass than the 10p and the sub-bass is probably 5-7% as it isn't quite as forward,but still noticeable at times.
> 
> ...


I was having a buyers remorse while I wait on the 10p but after reading your posts, because I am treble sensitive and am a bass head, but after seeing this post, you make me feel better, well said and thanks!

And Yes ZST shell similar to 10p shell is a lot more comfortable to me than ZS5V1, which is similar to the 7


----------



## KimChee

Oh good old buyers remorse...I’m having that a bit waiting on my Ibasso DX220 to get here...


----------



## VICosPhi

I had posted direct comparison between ZS7 and ZS10 pro a few pages back. Basically ZS7 has sharper treble(but this is fatiguing for my taste). ZS10 treble is equal in quantity but not as piercing as ZS7. Sub bass is same on both, mid bass is very slightly pronounced on ZS7. Vocals are better on ZS10 Pro. ZS7 is more V shape, ZS10 pro is more balanced like Kanas Pro's sound signature. Not a big fan of protruding 2pin connector on ZS10 Pro but otherwise I like it over ZS7. The differences are minimal, but ZS10 pro does sound more refined.


----------



## zazaboy

@VICosPhi * thanks*


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I just bought a KZ ZS6 for $25USD on Ali. Will it be in my Must Buys List when it arrives in a month or so? Just you wait and see... 

The latest KZ's seem to be not as good as hoped so I'm trying something older and semi well-received.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 12, 2019)

VICosPhi said:


> Basically ZS7 has sharper treble (but this is fatiguing for my taste). ZS10 treble is equal in quantity but not as piercing as ZS7.


I dont find the ZS7 treble piercing.  Does that mean you have better hearing then me? Want to do a hearing test in our different cities and see who wins the hearing war?

If you thought the ZS7 was harsh I just bought the ZS6 today and I have a feeling I will feel a similar way that you do about the ZS7.

PS: I bought some Ostry eartips to lower the sibilance on my ZS6.


----------



## VICosPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I dont find the ZS7 treble piercing.  Does that mean you have better hearing then me? Want to do a hearing test in our different cities and see who wins the hearing war?
> 
> If you thought the ZS7 was harsh I just bought the ZS6 today and I have a feeling I will feel a similar way that you do about the ZS7.


Or I must like my music too loud and it sounds piercing on ZS7? 
I think there was one person that agreed with my treble comment on ZS7 while someone else preferred the ZS7 treble. Must be a taste thing.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 12, 2019)

How many of you have seen this hilarious review of the ZS6 where the reviewer at Audiophileon keeps swearing at KZ for partially copying Campfire Audios IEM? I bet you they'll never send him another model. 

https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zs6-review


----------



## courierdriver

macky112 said:


> I was having a buyers remorse while I wait on the 10p but after reading your posts, because I am treble sensitive and am a bass head, but after seeing this post, you make me feel better, well said and thanks!
> 
> And Yes ZST shell similar to 10p shell is a lot more comfortable to me than ZS5V1, which is similar to the 7


Same here about the buyers remorse, but I'm looking forward to getting my 10 Pro. Hope it gets here sometime next week in time for my birthday!


----------



## Le Stef

VICosPhi said:


> I had posted direct comparison between ZS7 and ZS10 pro a few pages back. Basically ZS7 has sharper treble(but this is fatiguing for my taste). ZS10 treble is equal in quantity but not as piercing as ZS7. Sub bass is same on both, mid bass is very slightly pronounced on ZS7. Vocals are better on ZS10 Pro. ZS7 is more V shape, ZS10 pro is more balanced like Kanas Pro's sound signature. Not a big fan of protruding 2pin connector on ZS10 Pro but otherwise I like it over ZS7. The differences are minimal, but ZS10 pro does sound more refined.



Thanks ViCosPhi; given the positive reviews about the ZS10 Pro, and the descriptions on this site and the apparent signifiant improvement in sound tuning and sound stage, the ZS10 Pro it will be! Besides, to me it looks so much better than the ZS7 and is more comfortable, offers also better seal, so I don't hesitate anymore.

Thank you all for your input, I'm heading to the AliExpress site


----------



## khighly (May 12, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How many of you have seen this hilarious review of the ZS6 where the reviewer at Audiophileon keeps swearing at KZ for partially copying Campfire Audios IEM? I bet you they'll never send him another model.
> 
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zs6-review


I like the part where they go "screw these screw everything about this ****ing copy design...........................................but for the price these really aren't that bad. Smooth treble good range, detailed." and then tries to get you to buy something else from their amazon affiliate links. The article was a clear attack with a motive, not an objective review.

This reviewer has an eye only for the spectacle. KZ hasn't plucked at the strings of such spectacle yet.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Nano gives you his first impressions on the KZ AS16 in today's picture Sunday article. Now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/kz-as16-picture-sunday/


----------



## Detectit

I have a problem and couldn't find an solution or answer on the net. 

I have received my KZ Aptx cable. But it's loosing the connection.. 

First of all its a hit or mis to pair. When it's paired it looses connectio after 5 seconds or so. It connects again... And lost. 

I have tried on a Xiaomi MI9 Fiio M9 and HTC U11. All more or less the same results. 

Does someone has something elso to try? Or is it more common?


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How many of you have seen this hilarious review of the ZS6 where the reviewer at Audiophileon keeps swearing at KZ for partially copying Campfire Audios IEM? I bet you they'll never send him another model.
> 
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zs6-review



Old review, I think we all know that some KZ models are made as campfire 'look a likes'

And I bet KZ ain't that worried now.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Ultrainferno said:


> Nano gives you his first impressions on the KZ AS16 in today's picture Sunday article. Now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/kz-as16-picture-sunday/


Most precious would be to see a detailed comparison of AS16 with its close relative CCA C16 - both for those who has CCA C16 and those who try to choose between two.


----------



## Slater

Detectit said:


> I have a problem and couldn't find an solution or answer on the net.
> 
> I have received my KZ Aptx cable. But it's loosing the connection..
> 
> ...



Are you talking about the brand new KZ Bluetooth cable?


----------



## crabdog

PhonoPhi said:


> Most precious would be to see a detailed comparison of AS16 with its close relative CCA C16 - both for those who has CCA C16 and those who try to choose between two.


I'll be doing that once I mine arrives. Will hopefully be in the next few days.


----------



## Detectit

Slater said:


> Are you talking about the brand new KZ Bluetooth cable?


 Yeah what is brand new?? 

The Aptx 2 pins cable.

KZ Waterproof Aptx Bluetooth Module 4.2 Wireless Upgrade Cable Detachable Cord Applies Original Headphones ZS10AS10ZSTZS6ZSNPro
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bheogVle


----------



## SoundChoice (May 12, 2019)

.


----------



## shadowguns

Anybody got any immpressions on kz as16 there is only 15 hour till ali express sale ends then we will have to pay more for the same thing are tjey better than cca c16 ?


----------



## Slater

Detectit said:


> Yeah what is brand new??
> 
> The Aptx 2 pins cable.
> 
> ...



The new aptX HD Bluetooth 5.0 model that recently came out:

US $19.66  41％ Off | AK KZ Wireless Bluetooth Cable 5.0 APTX HD Upgrade Module Wire With 2PIN For KZ ZS10 Pro/ZST/AS06/AS10/AS16/ZSN PRO CCA C10 TRN
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cSgot3a0


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Are there any amount of Driver Flex in the ZSN?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Are there any amount of Driver Flex in the ZSN?


I have never had any issues with driver flex in the 2 pairs that I own.


----------



## Slater

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Are there any amount of Driver Flex in the ZSN?





BadReligionPunk said:


> I have never had any issues with driver flex in the 2 pairs that I own.



Nor my 2


----------



## HungryPanda (May 12, 2019)

nor mine and my wife says her two pairs have no flex either


----------



## PhonoPhi

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Are there any amount of Driver Flex in the ZSN?


Not my two as well


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 13, 2019)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Are there any amount of Driver Flex in the ZSN?


If there is driver flex it's because your ears have too much muscle.


----------



## khighly

KZ says they fixed their antenna issues in this new aptx hd model.


----------



## harpo1

khighly said:


> KZ says they fixed their antenna issues in this new aptx hd model.


What do you think they would say?  They didn't.....


----------



## archdawg

Another day, another set of IEMs ... I finally ordered the ZS7 - high time to get off that bl..dy fence, lol. (Can't wait to take a closer look at their crossover PCB.)


----------



## Detectit

khighly said:


> KZ says they fixed their antenna issues in this new aptx hd model.



So it's a common problem?? 

For me it's useless even when it's next to the device it's disconnected immediately when connected.


----------



## Slater (May 13, 2019)

Detectit said:


> So it's a common problem??
> 
> For me it's useless even when it's next to the device it's disconnected immediately when connected.



It’s a common problem with all previous KZ Bluetooth cables.

But so far no one has actually stepped forward (after receiving) the brand new Bluetooth 5.0 aptX-HD cable and said whether its Bluetooth connectivity is reliable or not.

So when you say “it’s useless even when it’s next to the device”, which model cable are you talking about? Because KZ has made 5-6 different cables.


----------



## Damikiller37

Slater said:


> It’s a common problem with all previous KZ Bluetooth cables.
> 
> But so far no one has actually stepped forward (after receiving) the brand new Bluetooth 5.0 aptX-HD cable and said whether its Bluetooth connectivity is reliable or not.
> 
> So when you say “it’s useless even when it’s next to the device”, which model cable are you talking about? Because KZ has made 5-6 different cables.


I have one on the way and it cleared customs in my country so I should have it soon. I also got this message from KZ (I ordered directly from them) so at least they are admitting to potential issues.


----------



## Slater

Damikiller37 said:


> I have one on the way and it cleared customs in my country so I should have it soon. I also got this message from KZ (I ordered directly from them) so at least they are admitting to potential issues.



Well, that’s honestly not a surprise in the least bit. At least they’re consistent with their Bluetooth cables.

I’ve said for years, KZ makes decent IEMs and wired cables. Bluetooth stuff, not so much.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Damikiller37 said:


> I have one on the way and it cleared customs in my country so I should have it soon. I also got this message from KZ (I ordered directly from them) so at least they are admitting to potential issues.


Atleast they are admitting a problem and willing to rectify the situation. If this were another Chinese company, say Bludio for example, they would have called you stupid and liar and fake and not replaced or refunded you. 

While KZ cant make a BT cable to save their life, atleast they admit it and own up to it. Apperently the issue is fixed though with the new batch? I would have them send you a new one just to actually see if they fixed it.


----------



## moisespr123

yup. Got that same message. I thought it was referring to the firmware rather than the antenna.


----------



## Slater (May 13, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Atleast they are admitting a problem and willing to rectify the situation. If this were another Chinese company, say Bludio for example, they would have called you stupid and liar and fake and not replaced or refunded you.
> 
> While KZ cant make a BT cable to save their life, atleast they admit it and own up to it. Apperently the issue is fixed though with the new batch?



Totally agree. And what you said about Bluedio is spot on as well.

I also wonder if the firmware can’t just be updated via USB once they have the problem flushed out?? They could just send the firmware file out to owners when it’s ready - problem solved.


----------



## Damikiller37

BadReligionPunk said:


> Atleast they are admitting a problem and willing to rectify the situation. If this were another Chinese company, say Bludio for example, they would have called you stupid and liar and fake and not replaced or refunded you.
> 
> While KZ cant make a BT cable to save their life, atleast they admit it and own up to it. Apperently the issue is fixed though with the new batch? I would have them send you a new one just to actually see if they fixed it.


Yeah I'll definitely see if I lucked out and the one I get is fine. If not I'll ask them for a replacement or a refund and reorder since I paid £5 more than the price it's at now. I'll at least get you all some visual comparison to the previous 4.2 model since I own one.


----------



## moisespr123

Slater said:


> Totally agree. And what you said about Bluedio is spot on as well.
> 
> I also wonder if the firmware can’t just be updated via USB once they have the problem flushed out?? They could just send the firmware file out to owners when it’s ready - problem solved.



My experience is that if they don't connect the USB Data pins to the CSR chip then the firmware cannot be updated. I haven't yet seen a receiver where the firmware can be updated. I have seen transmitters that it can be updated using CSR Blue Suite software. My best bet is that it will not be user-flashable and the USB will be only for charging. If, and only if, KZ enabled USB Audio via the USB port then there's a small chance of having a flashable firmware.


----------



## Podster

So how many you KZ kids have a pair of these? Thought I'd pull them out and try them with Jr. today


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> So how many you KZ kids have a pair of these? Thought I'd pull them out and try them with Jr. today



Mine broke ages ago, and I was unable to repair it. They’ve been long discontinued.

I was just thinking about them the other day. I was thinking about trying to find anyone that still had one they may want to part with.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Mine broke ages ago, and I was unable to repair it. They’ve been long discontinued.
> 
> I was just thinking about them the other day. I was thinking about trying to find anyone that still had one they may want to part with.



Shoot me a PM, don't know that I'd sell them but might consider a trade if you have something that might interest me. As a KZ collector these are a special one to have in ones collection for sure. I'll have to round up the charging cable but they function perfectly and as you can see light readouts are still nice and bright Keep in mind value has increased on them a wee bit since going out of production but I won't be too hard on ya


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 13, 2019)

Slater said:


> Mine broke ages ago, and I was unable to repair it. They’ve been long discontinued.
> 
> I was just thinking about them the other day. I was thinking about trying to find anyone that still had one they may want to part with.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...reo-Earphone-With-Microphone/32895021093.html

It looks like that's not the model you want... what's different from the new one? That FOB device isn't attached.

OLD Model Discontinued: https://www.gearbest.com/earphones/pp_259868.html


----------



## khighly

harpo1 said:


> What do you think they would say?  They didn't.....


Do you have any pictures of the length of your KZ 5.0 aptX HD cable?


----------



## khighly (May 13, 2019)

Damikiller37 said:


> I have one on the way and it cleared customs in my country so I should have it soon. I also got this message from KZ (I ordered directly from them) so at least they are admitting to potential issues.


Got the same message. Requested to resend. Even if there's a chance it's "ok", I'd rather have one that's their "best" performing and not in an alpha stage.

I noticed these on sale recently for $18-19 which I thought was fishy. Guess it was due to the issue.


----------



## Caipirina

Podster said:


> So how many you KZ kids have a pair of these? Thought I'd pull them out and try them with Jr. today



As a KZ collector / hoarder / historian   I am curious now, when was this one released and what was the original price? I saw 38$ on gearbest discontinued 'clearance' ... and how good is that amp? 

Also, comparison with ZS1? The shell looks identical

Not saying I want to hunt down ALL KZ there are, there are still many available ones I am not interested in (i.e. that bamboo shell one) ... but is it worth to try to track this one down? Or just a curio item?


----------



## tgx78 (May 14, 2019)

Been listening to the ZS10 Pro for few days and honestly blown away by its sonic performance. I really cannot fault anything about its tuning nor the tonality. It blows some of my $100-$200 IEMs out of the water in terms of SQ and build quality.. (i am looking at you B400) .. thinking of grabbing few more for backup lol


----------



## HAMS

Does kz fix connection issue on the newer KZ bluetooth aptx for zsn? I hear KZ's bt adapter have better sound quality than TRN's one?


----------



## randomnin

Don't know if anybody has posted this, but Rtings.com has published a KZ ZST review. Don't know why, they should've gone with my favourites ZS4, I wanted some hard data on them. But, oh well, at least this data lets me poke a bit of fun at expense of KZ.
Lookie here at ZST vs. ZSN frequency measurements




And over here at the corresponding THD measurements




A bit déjà vu-y amirite?
Whatever they or anyone else purports has been improved between these two doesn't seem to be captured by measurements very well


----------



## El Fuinha




----------



## eclein

tgx78 said:


> Been listening to the ZS10 Pro for few days and honestly blown away by its sonic performance. I really cannot fault anything about its tuning nor the tonality. It blows some of my $100-$200 IEMs out of the water in terms of SQ and build quality.. (i am looking at you B400) .. thinking of grabbing few more for backup lol



I agree with everything you say! I was not expecting anything like this and I’m loving it!


----------



## Folly

eclein said:


> I agree with everything you say! I was not expecting anything like this and I’m loving it!



How does the ZS10 pro compare to the C16? I am trying to decide between the two for my travel set, thanks!


----------



## eclein

Folly said:


> How does the ZS10 pro compare to the C16? I am trying to decide between the two for my travel set, thanks!


C16 has more detail to me but its larger in size and fits fine but ZS10 Pro is maximum comfort to me, I don’t feel them hardly at all in my ears.
ZS10 pro is more neutral than C16 I think...... I love the C16 and this new ZS10 just is smoother.....Its a tough call.....for traveling I’d take ZS10 Pro because it fits so perfectly and sounds just so darn cohesive and smooth.


----------



## archdawg

tgx78 said:


> Been listening to the ZS10 Pro for few days and honestly blown away by its sonic performance. I really cannot fault anything about its tuning nor the tonality. It blows some of my $100-$200 IEMs out of the water in terms of SQ and build quality.. (i am looking at you B400) .. thinking of grabbing few more for backup lol


I've had them in my AE cart as well but finally settled for the KZ7 (hopeless sucker for metal housings). 
Lately I've been eyeing some hi-end stuff again (SS Andromedas) but even though I could afford those puppies or some nice custom IEMs I thought eff'em ... just relax and wait for some more of those happy KZ accidents ... somehow they'll finally get there anyway, lol ... in the meantime I enjoy modding the living ¢®æ¶ out of what I already own.


----------



## tgx78 (May 14, 2019)

Folly said:


> How does the ZS10 pro compare to the C16? I am trying to decide between the two for my travel set, thanks!



I feel ZS10 Pro is better. C16 has brighter signature so it has little bit more perceived detail, but I do get listening fatigue after about 1 hour. Mids are little drier on C16 and once you reach low frequency, ZS10 Pro’s dynamic driver throws more satisfying and believable bass. Also ZS10 pro is more comfortable to wear thanks to smaller and more ergonomic housing.


----------



## Slater

randomnin said:


> Don't know if anybody has posted this, but Rtings.com has published a KZ ZST review. Don't know why, they should've gone with my favourites ZS4, I wanted some hard data on them. But, oh well, at least this data lets me poke a bit of fun at expense of KZ.
> Lookie here at ZST vs. ZSN frequency measurements
> 
> 
> ...



I think the key difference for me is the 4k-7k range. ZST had a lot of sibilance, which comes from this range. Other than that, I had no issue with the ZST and I liked their tuning.


----------



## Podster

Caipirina said:


> As a KZ collector / hoarder / historian   I am curious now, when was this one released and what was the original price? I saw 38$ on gearbest discontinued 'clearance' ... and how good is that amp?
> 
> Also, comparison with ZS1? The shell looks identical
> 
> Not saying I want to hunt down ALL KZ there are, there are still many available ones I am not interested in (i.e. that bamboo shell one) ... but is it worth to try to track this one down? Or just a curio item?



Went back and looked, bought mine in 2016 for $36 and some change. The amp section is nice and powerful in these and last 11 + hours  .  The issue and thing I’d watch for is getting a good pair that still works 100%, seems many like Slater if you read had a broken pair! They are a little delicate but if handled lovingly can last (obviously) and for sure worth having if your a collector, one guy if I remember bought a broken pair just to have a pair in his collection. Neat feature for me was the tone controls, can really change the way these sound and between that and a DAP’s EQ you can have fun with them.


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2019)

Folly said:


> How does the ZS10 pro compare to the C16? I am trying to decide between the two for my travel set, thanks!



The biggest difference are the shell size and the low end. The C16 has a massive size in comparison. As far as the tuning, everything rolls off below 250hz. See for yourself:




There are other differences in the tuning, but the low end is the biggest.

The good news is that the C16 responds very well to EQ, so you can shape the sound the way you want it. 

Ultimately, which one to choose depends on what genres you prefer.


----------



## archdawg (May 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> The biggest difference are the shell size and the low end. The C16 has a massive size in comparison. As far as the tuning, everything rolls off below 250hz. See for yourself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't believe what I see in the latter graph - ~-30 db downhill from 250Hz > ~10Hz


----------



## tgx78

archdawg said:


> Can't believe what I see in the latter graph - ~-30 db downhill from 250Hz > ~10Hz



That graph can’t be right. For multi BA set, C16 has pretty decent low end extension. There are few other frequency response graphs that shows C16’s more linear bass response If you search for it.


----------



## archdawg

tgx78 said:


> That graph can’t be right. For multi BA set, C16 has pretty decent low end extension. There are few other frequency response graphs that shows C16’s more linear bass response If you search for it.


I've seen some other C16 FR graphs elsewhere (thephonograph et. al.) - that's why.


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2019)

tgx78 said:


> That graph can’t be right. For multi BA set, C16 has pretty decent low end extension. There are few other frequency response graphs that shows C16’s more linear bass response If you search for it.



It is right in relation to the ZS10 Pro, because I measured them back to back - same cable, same tip, same channel, same insertion depth.

It is not right in relation to graphs taken on someone else’s rig (no graph is). So you can’t compare my ZS10 Pro to Billy Bobs C16, or Johnny #5’s C16 to my C16.

Also, the C16 (with no EQ) has no low end in relation to ZS10 Pro.

Finally, don’t forget that none of these budget measurement rigs are accurate at the extreme ends of the spectrum. For example, anything measured above 10k is unreliable (as is the lowest end of the sub bass range).


----------



## tgx78

Slater said:


> It is right in relation to the ZS10 Pro, because I measured them back to back.
> 
> It is not right in relation to graphs taken on someone else’s rig (no graph is). So you can’t compare my ZS10 Pro to Billy Bobs C16, or Johnny #5’s C16 to my C16.
> 
> ...



Have you measured both left and right channel to check for any imbalance or abnormality? That almost looks like earbud level of bass drop off.


----------



## Caipirina

archdawg said:


> I've had them in my AE cart as well but finally settled for the KZ7 (hopeless sucker for metal housings).
> Lately I've been eyeing some hi-end stuff again (SS Andromedas) but even though I could afford those puppies or some nice custom IEMs I thought eff'em ... just relax and wait for some more of those happy KZ accidents ... somehow they'll finally get there anyway, lol ... in the meantime I enjoy modding the living ¢®æ¶ out of what I already own.



Dang, all this positive talk about the ZS10 Pro now got me drooling, but I already have the ZS7 and the AS16 in the mail ... what to do, what to do? Especially when I see one offer that on desktop is 43$ but on mobile magically at 34$ .... temptations ...


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> Dang, all this positive talk about the ZS10 Pro now got me drooling, but I already have the ZS7 and the AS16 in the mail ... what to do, what to do? Especially when I see one offer that on desktop is 43$ but on mobile magically at 34$ .... temptations ...


You will not be disappointed. I've had the ZS10 Pros for a few weeks now, and I'm really impressed. It's very comfortable, and the sound is great.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

randomnin said:


> Don't know if anybody has posted this, but Rtings.com has published a KZ ZST review. Don't know why, they should've gone with my favourites ZS4, I wanted some hard data on them. But, oh well, at least this data lets me poke a bit of fun at expense of KZ.
> Lookie here at ZST vs. ZSN frequency measurements
> 
> 
> ...


Well ZSN has a definite boost in mids and upper mids. Even the low mids are boosted compared to ZST. ZST is a hard V for me while the boosted mids of the ZSN give it a W shape. They both do have the same "sound" though. I have and like both. Both very light and comfortable.


----------



## Crandall

For those with both the AS10 and either the ZS10 Pro or ZS7, do you notice hiss in the background with the AS10 that isn't present(or maybe worsens) with the ZS10 or ZS7? My AS10 tends to hiss with most sources unless I use an attenuator which is a bit annoying to carry around.


----------



## Mouseman

Crandall said:


> For those with both the AS10 and either the ZS10 Pro or ZS7, do you notice hiss in the background with the AS10 that isn't present(or maybe worsens) with the ZS10 or ZS7? My AS10 tends to hiss with most sources unless I use an attenuator which is a bit annoying to carry around.


I'll go back and listen to my AS10, but I never noticed a hiss. Then again, I don't use them much since they're very uncomfortable in my ear. I have noticed *no hiss *in the ZS10 Pros. What source are you listening to them from?


----------



## Crandall

Mouseman said:


> I'll go back and listen to my AS10, but I never noticed a hiss. Then again, I don't use them much since they're very uncomfortable in my ear. I have noticed *no hiss *in the ZS10 Pros. What source are you listening to them from?



I've had noticeably loud background hiss from (order of least to most) my 4th Gen iPod touch, Moto G5 Plus, Dell Latitude Laptop, and Pixel 3a. With the phones and iPod, it's most noticeable between tracks, or right after pausing, but is present during playback as well. Really ruins quiet tracks. 

I will say that the only time I didn't have hiss without the attenuator was when listening from a Moto G7, so it's definitely source related, but none of my other headphones have audible hiss from these sources. They are the most sensitive earphones I've ever had so far though. I'm sure that a decent bluetooth amp like the Earstudio ES100 would solve this issue, but I'd rather just use my headphone jack.


----------



## maxxevv

The AS10 is indeed very sensitive. I picked up noise on high gain on my LG G6 after I swapped to a higher grade cable with a lower impedance value. 

If you're using upgraded cables, would suggest using the original ones or an attenuator. A 0.5 Ohm difference in cable impedance was enough for the noise to manifest.


----------



## Aevum

the APTX HD BT 5.0 adapter is waiting for me at the mail office, 

The BT 4.2 APTX one is absolutly usless due to drops and disconnects.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Caipirina said:


> Dang, all this positive talk about the ZS10 Pro now got me drooling, but I already have the ZS7 and the AS16 in the mail ... what to do, what to do? Especially when I see one offer that on desktop is 43$ but on mobile magically at 34$ .... temptations ...



Be a completist,
Buy a ZS10 Pro...
  You won't be disappointed.

I love it.


----------



## Caipirina

Mybutthurts said:


> Be a completist,
> Buy a ZS10 Pro...
> You won't be disappointed.
> 
> I love it.



You guys are terrible! Ordered ...


----------



## moisespr123

Aevum said:


> the APTX HD BT 5.0 adapter is waiting for me at the mail office,
> 
> The BT 4.2 APTX one is absolutly usless due to drops and disconnects.



Let me know if it works fine. Apparently the audio quality is bad according to some reviews posted. KZ stopped selling the cable too.


----------



## Aevum

you mean the APTX HD one had bad quality or the older APTX one ?


----------



## moisespr123

The new APTX HD BT 5.0 cable


----------



## Podster

Caipirina said:


> You guys are terrible! Ordered ...



As a collector I would have thought all the new models were a given


----------



## Caipirina (May 14, 2019)

Podster said:


> As a collector I would have thought all the new models were a given


Probably 'Hoarder' would be a better description   My circumstances are a bit weird, only during the summer (starting now) I get to plunder across AliX and thus I come out of head-fi hibernation and try to play catch-up without ordering EVERYTHING .. at least that's the idea ... learning from some of the other people's mistakes maybe 

I still had buyer's remorse from last summer when more by chance I received the BT20 modules and that made me dig out and play with all my 0.75mm KZs and I ended up subscribing to my head-fi threads again and oh boy .. there is a long line of mail coming in now (to where I will be in about 4 weeks) ...

My 'top' model right now is the AS06 (or 'most recent') and I am super impressed!


----------



## groucho69

Caipirina said:


> Probably 'Hoarder' would be a better description   My circumstances are a bit weird, only during the summer (starting now) I get to plunder across AliX and thus I come out of head-fi hibernation and try to play catch-up without ordering EVERYTHING .. at least that's the idea ... learning from some of the other people's mistakes maybe
> 
> I still had buyer's remorse from last summer when more by chance I received the BT20 modules and that made me dig out and play with all my 0.75mm KZs and I ended up subscribing to my head-fi threads again and oh boy .. there is a long line of mail coming in now (to where I will be in about 4 weeks) ...
> 
> My 'top' model right now is the AS06 (or 'most recent') and I am super impressed!



I've said it before, it is pronounced en-thus-i-ast.


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2019)

tgx78 said:


> Have you measured both left and right channel to check for any imbalance or abnormality? That almost looks like earbud level of bass drop off.



Yes, I did. Mine are accurately matched.

I own other all-BA IEMs, so I expected some low end roll off. But I was seriously disappointed when I heard the C16 out of the box. They do remind me of earbud levels of roll off.

They sound 10xs better with the low end boosted at least 10dB. But that’s justified matter of personal taste.


----------



## Makahl (May 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> Yes, I did. Mine are accurately matched.
> 
> I own other all-BA IEMs, so I expected some low end roll off. But I was seriously disappointed when I heard the C16 out of the box. They do remind me of earbud levels of roll off.
> 
> They sound 10xs better with the low end boosted at least 10dB. But that’s justified matter of personal taste.



I think there's a possibility you got a lemon comparing it to other FR there's no such roll-off starting from 250 Hz. Might they forgot to solder the woofers in your pair? lol.



Spoiler



BGGAR:


----------



## Slater (May 14, 2019)

Makahl said:


> I think there's a possibility you got a lemon comparing it to other FR there's no such roll-off starting from 250 Hz. Might they forgot to solder the woofers in your pair? lol.



Well, remember I don’t use IEC couplers, so my graphs can’t be compared to other’s.

Graphs can only be compared to measurements taken on the same equipment.

A perfect example is the 2 different graphs you posted. If you look at the 2nd graph, its sub bass is boosted way more relative to the mids and treble than the 1st graph. Also, each have numerous peaks that occur in different frequencies. Basically those 2 graphs are totally different than one another.

And that perfectly illustrates my point. You can’t compare the 1st graph with the 2nd graph, nor can you compare either graph to mine. *None of them are accurate when compared to each other.*

It just doesn’t work that way no matter how much someone really hopes it would; I really wish it did.

And sure, there is always a possibility that I got a lemon. I can EQ and get massive sub bass though, which tells me the drivers are soldered just fine. Perhaps they aren’t totally sealed with glue though. I guess I’ll open them up and check. Because as they are now, I’ll never use them because they don’t have a sound signature I enjoy. So I may as well tinker with them or mod them or something.


----------



## 1clearhead

I personally think the C16 coupled with the Auvio silicone ear tips are a "match made in heaven". It has such an openness in the midrange that it comes through sounding so realistic and crystal clear with much of the hi-lite coming from its upper range. While, in the lower end tends to sound so precise with its quick bass sonic punch reassuring the best rounded sound possible. So, without no doubt, I still highly recommend the C16 for a true revealing experience of your personal music collection.


Remember:   C16 + Auvio silicone ear tips = Match made in heaven!

...just my 2 cents!


----------



## Makahl (May 14, 2019)

> Graphs can only be compared to measurements taken on the same equipment.
> 
> A perfect example is the 2 different graphs you posted. If you look at the 2nd graph, its sub bass is boosted way more relative to the mids and treble than the 1st graph. Also, each have numerous peaks that occur in different frequencies. Basically those 2 graphs are totally different than one another.
> 
> ...



Indeed, you're totally right for this matter. It's totally useless and far easy to misinterpret it. But, my point was just showing the bass in your pair and its roll-off looks way too much.



> And sure, there is always a possibility that I got a lemon. I can EQ and get massive sub bass though, which tells me the drivers are soldered just fine. Perhaps *they aren’t totally sealed with glue though.* I guess I’ll open them up and check. Because as they are now, I’ll never use them because they don’t have a sound signature I enjoy. So I may as well tinker with them or mod them or something.



Definitely, that can be the culprit here. Also, it would be really cool if you could put your hands on another pair to measure and compare it to yours in your rig just to make sure it isn't the case of a lemon. (or might show it to the seller?)


----------



## Mybutthurts

Caipirina said:


> You guys are terrible! Ordered ...



Sorry.


----------



## Podster (May 14, 2019)

No need apologizing around here, were all grown-ups

Warming my toasters up with my little Xduoo XQ-10 being fed by a Benjie T6






@LaughMoreDaily , wanted to thank you for posting that old Gearbest ad on the Amped ZN1's as I wanted to print that out to keep with them


----------



## Damikiller37 (May 14, 2019)

Got the new KZ Bluetooth 5.0 APT-X HD adapter and as KZ warned me they are broken. Seems to only play bass and doesn't play as loud as they clearly can judging by the announcer voice. Also there are a few quirks like when you power it on she says "Turn Off". Key changes/similarities between this model and the previous 4.2 APTX one are:

Metal memory wire is gone from the ear hooks. Just the memory plastic like the original cable that comes with ZSNs (probably other KZ earphone cables too).
Announcer voice is different and a little more pleasant.

Still Red and Blue LED on the unit, whoever they shine through the plastic at the sides so might be a little easier to see them.
The cable is a little longer; about an 2cm longer on each side and about 5mm between the 2 pills.
Still uses USB mini to charge and came with the same tiny black cable.

The range appeared to be pretty good and not cut out (Not tested fully so don't take my word just yet; with the old unit I got cut outs when walking).
The buttons are a little more tactile and easier to click.
The rest of the design seems to be the same apart from the colour being light gray.
I'm going to try and get a replacement from KZ hopefully with the new revision that works. Will get back once I know more. Personally I would hold back if you are planning to get this until I get the replacement. Save you all the fuss 

Here are some comparison photos and how it displays on my phone: LINK


----------



## bhazard

For those that have C16's with roll off under 250hz, yours are defective. Mine measured extend well below that. They have a quite nice bass level down to about 30-40hz. It actually has a midbass hump.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Also, it would be really cool if you could put your hands on another pair to measure and compare it to yours in your rig just to make sure it isn't the case of a lemon. (or might show it to the seller?)





bhazard said:


> For those that have C16's with roll off under 250hz, yours are defective. Mine measured extend well below that. They have a quite nice bass level down to about 30-40hz. It actually has a midbass hump.



I got them from a fellow HeadFier as part of a trade, so I’m not sure how east it would be to exchange with the original seller.

I’ll have to contact the member and see what his thoughts are.

Thanks for your input and suggestions guys


----------



## Caipirina

Podster said:


> No need apologizing around here, were all grown-ups
> 
> Warming my toasters up with my little Xduoo XQ-10 being fed by a Benjie T6
> 
> ...



Oh how nice, Depeche Mode AND those Ironman buds  which I also have in the mail ... la la la ...


----------



## tgx78

Sounds great even out of my old iPhone 6S


----------



## Slater

tgx78 said:


> Sounds great even out of my old iPhone 6S



I was rocking out to mine all day. One of KZs best offerings IMO.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 15, 2019)

I just tried looking for newer model KZ's and CCA's on Penon Audios website and it looks like they stopped selling new models by the brand. 

Is there a beef going on in Chifi?


----------



## khighly

Damikiller37 said:


> The cable is a little longer; about an 2cm longer on each side and about 5mm between the 2 pills.



Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 15, 2019)

In Gorab1995's ZS7 review he says, "The AS10 suck for music listening, imo. And no casual listener should buy it. It's good for stage performances and maybe, just maybe for monitoring."

I think the AS10 is perfect for live shows as well but he says it's not much good for  anything else. I think the AS10 does sound better than the ZS7 but the latter is far more diverse perfect. You'll notice the flaws of the AS10 when comparing both.


----------



## maxxevv

I have both the ZS7 and the AS10. 

I definitely don't agree with that.  

Besides, who is that reviewer ? Nothing by that name/ moniker on youtube or google.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> I was rocking out to mine all day. One of KZs best offerings IMO.


How do they compare to the C10's or the ZSN PRO's? ...would it be a side grade? or, is it a step-up in your opinion?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## B9Scrambler

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just tried looking for newer model KZ's and CCA's on Penon Audios website and it looks like they stopped selling new models by the brand.
> 
> Is there a beef going on in Chifi?



Penon's relationship with KZ was tumultuous at best back when I reviewed for them. Was surprised to see them selling their products at all, ever.


----------



## groucho69 (May 15, 2019)

Delete


----------



## archdawg

Another day, another IEM, lol ...
As usual I'm a bit late to the party but I finally ordered the ZSA as well; two pairs actually so I can mod them step by step (dampening, tuning, crossover, driver transplants, ...) and can compare the result of each step to the other pair. I originally planned the same thing with my ZS6 (3 pairs) but that has time and I rather start out with a two-driver configuration and see how far it gets.


----------



## danspy

Hi.

 A quick question about the KZ ZS5 . Are all the Full box editions V1,s ?


----------



## Wiljen

Penon want's nearly exclusive rights to sell a lot of products and that may have been a dogfight with KZ as they tend to fan out pretty wide.   First KZ exclusive I can think of was the Zs7.


----------



## Wiljen

danspy said:


> Hi.
> 
> A quick question about the KZ ZS5 . Are all the Full box editions V1,s ?



I think both models came in the same packaging so the only way to be certain is to look in the nozzle for the rings.   single ring = 1 ba = V1.


----------



## danspy

Wiljen said:


> I think both models came in the same packaging so the only way to be certain is to look in the nozzle for the rings.   single ring = 1 ba = V1.



thank you. i got the v1 about a week after lunch, but i damaged them in modding.


----------



## Podster

I just love v1 KZ's Here's a 6 pack to go


----------



## danspy (May 15, 2019)

nice can you ship to Thailand?

i can get them next day free shipping. 

but are the V1,s i don't no jet.


----------



## Podster

danspy said:


> nice can you ship to Thailand?
> 
> i can get them next day free shipping.
> 
> but are the V1,s i don't no jet.



Yes, both are v1's, I made sellers open and send me ring picture before I'd order. The gray ones were easy as I ordered them as soon as released but waited a couple months on the blue so I had the seller confirm So I only have one pair left as one of our fellow brother's out here gave me a real sob story and I caved LOL In all honesty I let him have them since I preferred the ZST and ZS6 over my 5v1's (Say What) Going to have to hold onto this pair though but hope you can find another and be careful with those Mods

Seems I let the Gray ones go


----------



## Jecht Auron

Well I ordered my second pair of IEM's. They are the KZ ZS10 Pro. Nice thing I like about separate bank accounts from the wife is I can hide by buys lol. People in here talked highly of them so I was like why not lol. I think after this buy I will look for a DAC to connect to my phones. I have been enjoying my KZ a lot and now want to get better tips for them. I can see this is going to be an addiction for sure.


----------



## Wiljen

Jecht Auron said:


> Well I ordered my second pair of IEM's. They are the KZ ZS10 Pro. Nice thing I like about separate bank accounts from the wife is I can hide by buys lol. People in here talked highly of them so I was like why not lol. I think after this buy I will look for a DAC to connect to my phones. I have been enjoying my KZ a lot and now want to get better tips for them. I can see this is going to be an addiction for sure.



Welcome to head-fi and sorry about your wallet.  Now your biggest fear becomes that someday your wife will sell your gear based on what you told her you paid for it.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 15, 2019)

Jecht Auron said:


> Well I ordered my second pair of IEM's. They are the KZ ZS10 Pro. Nice thing I like about separate bank accounts from the wife is I can hide by buys lol. People in here talked highly of them so I was like why not lol. I think after this buy I will look for a DAC to connect to my phones. I have been enjoying my KZ a lot and now want to get better tips for them. I can see this is going to be an addiction for sure.



Until she sees them piling up in the corners... or sticking out of your ears...  I have personal experience with this.  I don't even try to hide mine from him.



Wiljen said:


> Welcome to head-fi and sorry about your wallet. Now your biggest fear becomes that someday your wife will sell your gear based on what you told her you paid for it.



Lol... there are some things here  cost about ten times more than I was originally told... that was before I joined headfi myself


----------



## B9Scrambler

Still one of the best. Took them out for a listen last night and decided to take some pics. If you don't own an ED9 yet, do yourself a favour and fix that asap.


----------



## Jecht Auron

mbwilson111 said:


> Until she sees them piling up in the corners... or sticking out of your ears...  I have personal experience with this.  I don't even try to hide mine from him.


My wife is so unobservant that she thinks all my iems are the same ones.


----------



## mbwilson111

B9Scrambler said:


> Still one of the best. Took them out for a listen last night and decided to take some pics. If you don't own an ED9 yet, do yourself a favour and fix that asap.



Wow do you actually keep yours in that tiny case?   I had to give mine more room.  Love them with the darker (not shiny) filter.


----------



## Jecht Auron

Wiljen said:


> Welcome to head-fi and sorry about your wallet.  Now your biggest fear becomes that someday your wife will sell your gear based on what you told her you paid for it.


Shes to lazy to even try to sell them.


----------



## Podster (May 15, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Until she sees them piling up in the corners... or sticking out of your ears...  I have personal experience with this.  I don't even try to hide mine from him.
> 
> Gurlfriend (No disrespect Panda, she's a real keeper) My wife would not know if any of my portable was new if she could not tell the RP8 recently replaced my old RP1 while trapesing through my Cave Besides she has seen me in so many different iem's she gave up that challenge like 5 years ago Now let me walk in with a new pair of Solomon's on and (Ding Ding DIng) red lights and whistles start going off all over the place



Yeah B9, the ED9 was what really hooked me on KZ and to this day I consider them the Vandersteen's of iem's

Here's some reeling in the years shots for ya!


----------



## B9Scrambler

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow do you actually keep yours in that tiny case?   I had to give mine more room.  Love them with the darker (not shiny) filter.



Yeah. Earphones I don't use on the regular go back in their packaging. I also generally take pics of review items shortly before the review goes up. This means I have to repackage them as close as possible to how they originally arrived. Either way, my repackaging skills are second to none at this point, haha. If I ever return an item, the cashier often asks if it was even used/opened


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 15, 2019)

Jecht Auron said:


> My wife is so unobservant that she thinks all my iems are the same ones.



Until they fill the house....like what has happened here...

so she would think these are the same?  Of course none of these are KZ.  I guess KZ look more alike...


----------



## mbwilson111

Jecht Auron said:


> Shes to lazy to even try to sell them.



She might need the money after you spent it all on audio gear...


----------



## Jecht Auron

mbwilson111 said:


> She might need the money after you spent it all on audio gear...


She has her money and I have my money. So it works out perfectly.


----------



## mbwilson111

Jecht Auron said:


> She has her money and I have my money. So it works out perfectly.



Then you might as well go all out and enter a higher tier of gear


----------



## Jecht Auron

mbwilson111 said:


> Until they fill the house....like what has happened here...
> 
> so she would think these are the same?  Of course none of these are KZ.  I guess KZ look more alike...


If it's not pokemon go or one of her other games. Then she doesnt pay attention. Why I buy small items.


----------



## Jecht Auron

mbwilson111 said:


> Then you might as well go all out and enter a higher tier of gear



Naaa doubt I'll ever go high end. I like finding bang for my buck.


----------



## mbwilson111

Jecht Auron said:


> Naaa doubt I'll ever go high end. I like finding bang for my buck.



I do too... there is a certain kind of pleasure with that.  Yesterday I was enjoying a ten pound iem.  My music sounded great.  Then later I listened with something else and it actually was even better... but earlier I had not felt like anything was lacking.  It's weird.  I just get lost in the music.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> I do too... there is a certain kind of pleasure with that.  Yesterday I was enjoying a ten pound iem.  My music sounded great.  Then later I listened with something else and it actually was even better... but earlier I had not felt like anything was lacking.  It's weird.  I just get lost in the music.



SO true that last line is what's most important and some could really save themselves some dolla's if they just spent a little more time with some of those bargain gems


----------



## Jecht Auron

mbwilson111 said:


> I do too... there is a certain kind of pleasure with that.  Yesterday I was enjoying a ten pound iem.  My music sounded great.  Then later I listened with something else and it actually was even better... but earlier I had not felt like anything was lacking.  It's weird.  I just get lost in the music.


I've had a few pairs of klipsch and shure 215 and was shocked my KZ KSR sounded better than those and they was close to the $100 dollar range. I learned dont need to spend a lot for great sound. Just research by reading peoples suggestions.


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> SO true that last line is what's most important and some could really save themselves some dolla's if they just spent a little more time with some of those bargain gems



I think I have just become addicted to the constant arrival of little packages from China.  I wonder what our poor mailman thinks.  I don't know if he has ever noticed the info on the package that says "earphone" or "cable".  The poor guy is deaf


----------



## Mybutthurts

Jecht Auron said:


> My wife is so unobservant that she thinks all my iems are the same ones.



She knows they're different...she waiting to use it against you when the time is right.


----------



## Podster

Mybutthurts said:


> She knows they're different...she waiting to use it against you when the time is right.



Just wait to the next time she's pissed at you @Jecht Auron , mine brings new meaning to TOTAL RECALL


----------



## Jecht Auron

Mybutthurts said:


> She knows they're different...she waiting to use it against you when the time is right.


Trust me she can ask me a question and 5 min later ask me the same question. She uses bigger things to bring up an argument lol


----------



## Jecht Auron

Podster said:


> Just wait to the next time she's pissed at you @Jecht Auron , mine brings new meaning to TOTAL RECALL


I just do the yeah, uh huh, yep, you're totally right.


----------



## Podster

Jecht Auron said:


> I just do the yeah, uh huh, yep, you're totally right.



Well you are lucky then as mine is a political science major and had she gone on to become an attorney she would have made the Shark look like a Guppy If I tried that number on mine she would go into the old "Are you Mocking me mode" then you could just take a hammer to your head and it would be easier


----------



## Jecht Auron

Podster said:


> Well you are lucky then as mine is a political science major and had she gone on to become an attorney she would have made the Shark look like a Guppy If I tried that number on mine she would go into the old "Are you Mocking me mode" then you could just take a hammer to your head and it would be easier


I just have a knack of making women mad to the point they stop . My wife calls me a D all the time and I just say yep sure an and proud of it. I just hate arguing over stupid trivial things.


----------



## eclein

1clearhead said:


> How do they compare to the C10's or the ZSN PRO's? ...would it be a side grade? or, is it a step-up in your opinion?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Hey Clear I think they (ZS10 Pro) are more neutral then any others I have, I only have low amount of hours on them but the cohesiveness and neutrality are what has me hooked in. As Slater mentioned one of KZs very best and most definitely in my top 5.


----------



## archdawg

mbwilson111 said:


> I do too... there is a certain kind of pleasure with that.  Yesterday I was enjoying a ten pound iem.  My music sounded great.  Then later I listened with something else and it actually was even better... but earlier I had not felt like anything was lacking.  It's weird.  I just get lost in the music.


Sounds soo familiar. I was on the road last week with nothing but my new QT5, the Sonata USB DAC and my smartphones and enjoyed those IEMs a great deal. It was only when I got back to my GF's place and fired up my beloved, modded ZS6 that I realized how much 'better' they are all around (transparency, liveliness, soundstage & spatial accuracy even in crowded tracks,...). Of the 25+ phones I own especially the KZ6 often just disappear from the radar and everything else gets lost in the vibes with nothing left to be desired. Of all the qualities a phone (or recording) can offer, to me it's that transparency what I'm more after than anything else ... luckily it doesn't need a lot of €€€ to get there these days.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 15, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Still one of the best. Took them out for a listen last night and decided to take some pics. If you don't own an ED9 yet, do yourself a favour and fix that asap.



Agreed! The ED9 still hold their own for a pleasant listening session. 



 


Actually, these still get as much usage as anything else in my collection:


 


I never tire of KZ's legendary leveling-up IEM:


 


.......another old skool favorite no matter their age:


 


.......and finally, the one that got away:








archdawg said:


> It was only when I got back to my GF's place and fired up my beloved, modded ZS6 that I realized how much 'better' they are all around (transparency, liveliness, soundstage & spatial accuracy even in crowded tracks,...). Of the 25+ phones I own especially the KZ6 often just disappear from the radar and everything else gets lost in the vibes with nothing left to be desired. Of all the qualities a phone (or recording) can offer, to me it's that transparency what I'm more after than anything else ...




Even as KZ moves forward, the ZS6 will probably remain a legend. 

Great description: "transparency, liveliness, soundstage & spatial accuracy"


.......and the 10Pro will definitely be among one of KZ's best. 

[no photo yet, but soon]


----------



## loomisjohnson

B9Scrambler said:


> Still one of the best. Took them out for a listen last night and decided to take some pics. If you don't own an ED9 yet, do yourself a favour and fix that asap.


i seem to recall you didn't love these at first--good to see you joining the fan club


----------



## B9Scrambler

loomisjohnson said:


> i seem to recall you didn't love these at first--good to see you joining the fan club



I liked them back in the day but the original bio-diaphragm version has pretty spashy treble. That turned me off. The current titanium coated version has much cleaner treble and it sounds amazing.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> I liked them back in the day but the original bio-diaphragm version has pretty spashy treble. That turned me off. The current titanium coated version has much cleaner treble and it sounds amazing.



The ED9 bio version sounds best with the gold filter, which tames the treble. I used to hate the bio version with the dull filter.

Now with the titanium version, I love the dull filter, which shows off that sweet ED9 treble.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> The ED9 bio version sounds best with the gold filter, which tames the treble. I used to hate the bio version with the dull filter.
> 
> Now with the titanium version, I love the dull filter, which shows off that sweet ED9 treble.



That's exactly how I run mine, lol. "Gold" on the original, "Brass" on the new version.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Agreed! The ED9 still hold their own for a pleasant listening session.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful Doc, some great shot/memories right there Go team KZ Hey don't you think we should get some kind of special discount from KZ for all these great pub shots LOL

Let me tax that server some more









 




 

 

 



Why no, I don't like KZ


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Now with the titanium version, I love the dull filter, which shows off that sweet ED9 treble.



How can I tell which one I have?  I do not  have the original box.  I do use the dull filter..


----------



## DocHoliday

Podster said:


> Beautiful Doc, some great shot/memories right there Go team KZ Hey don't you think we should get some kind of special discount from KZ for all these great pub shots LOL
> 
> Let me tax that server some more
> 
> ...



Dang, those ED11's are breaking my heart. Another one that got away just as I entered the seven kingdoms and noticed the value of an up and coming powerhouse.


----------



## Podster (May 15, 2019)

Yeah, the old brass backs were a nice upgrade to the 10's. I may have a couple pair Doc and if so I'll ping you for an Addy When I first started my KZ trip I would generally order two at a time, I mean I really had that 2 for less than $20 mentality going cause I got some kind of disease

That's not even a good shot of them Not helping matters much am I On the other hand the shield does kind of go along with that Thrones vibe


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 15, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> I have both the ZS7 and the AS10.
> 
> I definitely don't agree with that.
> 
> Besides, who is that reviewer ? Nothing by that name/ moniker on youtube or google.


He's a Headfi member. Lol. Check out the KZ ZS7 reviews for Gourab1995.


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 15, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> He's a Headfi member. Lol. Check out the KZ ZS7 reviews for Gorab1995.



It is spelled gourab1995 .. that is why it does not come up in a search.

The review is on this page among the other ZS7 reviews.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews


----------



## Folly

Demo'ed the ZS10 Pro today. It is a great all rounder. Tight, punchy bass from the DD with realistic timber. Mids and treble has plenty of details with no fatigue or sibilance issues. Also good build quality and fits very well. Vocals can sound tinny or grainy at times, but that is just nitpicking, just crazy good value for the price.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> It is spelled gourab1995 .. that is why it does not come up in a search.
> 
> The review is on this page among the other ZS7 reviews.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs7-knowledge-zenith.23485/reviews



Man looking at some of those I think the Pod could actually do a review these days, just a couple of pics and write these babies are cool and hot Walla, review complete


----------



## Caipirina

Speaking of oldie-Goldies.  Those HD9 ... worth getting? And recon the 2.25$ ones on AliX are authentic? 
What about those bamboo ones?  

I have not ordered anything new in 24h !


----------



## Slater (May 15, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> How can I tell which one I have?  I do not  have the original box.  I do use the dull filter..



If you remove the filter, you shine a flashlight and look inside. There’s a difference in the number of holes in the driver (which you can see through the metal mesh).

The biofiber driver has 7 small holes (6 around the edges and 1 in the center), and the titanium driver just has 1 center hole and no holes around the outside.


----------



## Podster

Caipirina said:


> Speaking of oldie-Goldies.  Those HD9 ... worth getting? And recon the 2.25$ ones on AliX are authentic?
> What about those bamboo ones?
> 
> I have not ordered anything new in 24h !



HD9? Are you meaning the ED9's? If so absolutely but as far as the Bamboo ED7's you might take a pass on those (I think the Panda chews on his), they don't sound bad and for sure no where near a Best Buy $9.99 Skull Candy


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> If you remove the filter, you shine a flashlight and look inside. There’s a difference in the number of holes in the driver (which you can see through the metal mesh).
> 
> I’ll verify when I get home, but from memory the biofiber driver has 5 small holes and the titanium driver has 1 big one.



That's ok.  I don't want to remove the filter and maybe not be able to put it back.


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> HD9? Are you meaning the ED9's? If so absolutely but as far as the Bamboo ED7's you might take a pass on those (I think the Panda chews on his), they don't sound bad and for sure no where near a Best Buy $9.99 Skull Candy



I do not see an ED7 in his list so if he had one he has eaten it by now.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> I do not see an ED7 in his list so if he had one he has eaten it by now.



Well I'm sure you know the guilty look


----------



## Slater (May 15, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> That's ok.  I don't want to remove the filter and maybe not be able to put it back.



By filter I’m talking about the shiny and dull changeable ones that screw onto the IEM body. Not to be confused with the nozzle ‘filters’ we usually are talking about (ie the stainless steel mesh screen).


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> By filter I’m talking about the shiny and dull changeable ones that screw onto the IEM body. Not to be confused with the nozzle ‘filters’ we usually are talking about (ie the stainless steel mesh screen).



Oh ok thanks...I was thinking about the screen..probably,because you are often removing those for various reasons.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Oh ok thanks...I was thinking about the screen..probably,because you are often removing those for various reasons.



Haha, me?!? No way!!!


----------



## Caipirina

Podster said:


> HD9? Are you meaning the ED9's?


No, HD9 . Those guys


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> No, HD9 . Those guys



I miss the good old days, when all KZs cost less than $10. I remember how shocking it was when they hit $15. It was like whaaaa?

Now they’re pumping out >$100 models like it’s no big thang


----------



## 1clearhead

eclein said:


> Hey Clear I think they (ZS10 Pro) are more neutral then any others I have, I only have low amount of hours on them but the cohesiveness and neutrality are what has me hooked in. As Slater mentioned one of KZs very best and most definitely in my top 5.


Thanks!...that says a lot! 
Now, I need time to think about any extra change that's left in my bank account!


----------



## tgx78 (May 15, 2019)

BBGAR’s review is up. He prefers ZS10 Pro ($35-40) over the new AS16 ($125) or the BGVP DMS ($160).


----------



## ShakyJake

mbwilson111 said:


> Oh ok thanks...I was thinking about the screen..probably,because you are often removing those for various reasons.





Slater said:


> Haha, me?!? No way!!!



Yes, you! Isn't that the first thing you do when you get a new IEM? 

By the way, what kind of glue/sticky substance do you use to put them back in place?


----------



## randomnin

Everyone's showing off their collections, and I, too, have bought a few tens of IEMs. But somehow I (or more often my family members) manage to kill them off in a few months. Latest victim - ZSN at the hands of a brother. The cable, for which I haven't got any replacement, have to restock soon. ZS4, which has been my daily driver for the past few months, has red wire showing at the relief of the plug. This situation is getting more precarious by the day, and my reserve IEM sounds noticeably worse. Can one purchase the black ZS4 cable, with or without the mic, separately somewhere?


----------



## voicemaster

tgx78 said:


> BBGAR’s review is up. He prefers ZS10 Pro ($35-40) over the new AS16 ($125) or the BGVP DMS ($160).




Can't wait for mine to arrive from China. It just got cleared on the custom.


----------



## voicemaster

This sound really good with ZSN pro and also ZS7. The bass is so good.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (May 16, 2019)

Does the _*ZS10 PRO*_ have any Driver Flex?


----------



## tgx78 (May 16, 2019)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Does the ZS10 PRO have any Driver Flex?



No. They have pressure equalizing vent.


----------



## voicemaster

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Does the ZS10 PRO have any Driver Flex?



None of my KZ that was released after ZSN has driver flex. ZSN, ZSN pro, ZS7, AS10 and CCA C10 don't have driver flex, but the earlier model like ZSR, ZST, etc has (not all of them just some).


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Thats good to Hear that there is no Driver Flex in the ZS10 _*PRO, *_My Next question is how does it Compare to the similiarly Priced Tin Audio T2 in term of Sound?


----------



## voicemaster

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Thats good to Hear that there is no Driver Flex in the ZS10 _*PRO, *_My Next question is how does it Compare to the similiarly Priced Tin Audio T2 in term of Sound?



That I don't know.


----------



## Folly

Significantly better than T2. Both physically and sonically.


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> Yes, for those that find the ZS6 has too much treble, then somehow disabling or removing 1 BA is my personal preference.
> 
> You could do it many different ways - plugging 1 of the BAs with laser bond/blue tac/beeswax/clay/epoxy, ripping 1 out with pliers (hopefully not damaging the other BA), etc.
> 
> ...



I’m just an average guy, so what’s the best ZS6 mod to try at this stage of the game, in 2019? I couldn’t find Otto talking about resistors, not that I would know what to do with the.


----------



## voicemaster

SoundChoice said:


> I’m just an average guy, so what’s the best ZS6 mod to try at this stage of the game, in 2019? I couldn’t find Otto talking about resistors, not that I would know what to do with the.


Buy KZ ZS7 or ZS10 pro.


----------



## nxnje

Folly said:


> Significantly better than T2. Both physically and sonically.



Wonder how could you say x is better than y if the two have complete different signatures. LOL


----------



## Folly

Why not? Sound signature is one thing, technicalities of the IEM itself is another.


----------



## HAMS

Technicalities is something measurable. Otherwise it's just an opinion.


----------



## El Fuinha

https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zs16-review


----------



## HungryPanda

I have quite a few KZ earphones and can say ZS10 Pro is the best KZ iem I have had the pleasure to listen to


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 16, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I have quite a few KZ earphones and can say ZS10 Pro is the best KZ iem I have had the pleasure to listen to



Yay!  So now you are ready to sell all the other KZs and the suitcase you keep them in.


----------



## HungryPanda

mbwilson111 said:


> Yay!  So now you are ready to sell all the other KZs and the suicase you feep them in.


Not quite


----------



## Slater

ShakyJake said:


> Yes, you! Isn't that the first thing you do when you get a new IEM?
> 
> By the way, what kind of glue/sticky substance do you use to put them back in place?



Yeah, it is actually haha

As far as putting them back on, they almost all have a ring of sticky adhesive around the circumference. This allows them to be stuck right back on, exactly as they originally were (assuming you don’t mess up the adhesive by sticking it to something dirty). I usually temporarily stick them to a piece of wax paper or even a candle. This way the adhesive stays pristine, for when I’m ready to put them back on.

I’ve only run into a few IEMs that actually had their nozzle screens glued in place (maybe 1 in 20). In those cases, I’ll just replace the stock nozzle screens with new 3rd party ones (with the sticky adhesive ring).


----------



## eclein

Totally onboard with Panda...on both ...LOL! Sorry mb!


----------



## Slater

tgx78 said:


> BBGAR’s review is up. He prefers ZS10 Pro ($35-40) over the new AS16 ($125) or the BGVP DMS ($160).




I told you guys it was good


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Slater said:


> I told you guys it was good



He also said the DM6 was good...


----------



## Nimweth

My impressions of the ZSN Pro can be found here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/reviews


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> I told you guys it was good



It certainly is...


----------



## archdawg (May 16, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> My impressions of the ZSN Pro can be found here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/reviews


Nice review, Nimweth!
I particularily like your impressions of musical sequences through those phones and (like usual) the comparisons with other IEMs. The only thing I somehow missed was a comparison between the Pros and the standard ZSN. I own both and like so often there's no clear 'winner' in my book.
In your review you've mentioned an upgraded version of the 30095 BA in the Pros (any further infos?); well ... generally their treble sounds at least slightly less edgy to my ears. As so often though a lot depends on what you feed them with and at the end of the day the Pros appear more forgiving to me in that area (+1). When it comes to their respective bass and lower mids though the Pros appear more demanding than the Std. ZSN to keep their (KZ idea of) balance. To my ears the lower registers as well as the spectral balance of the Pros benefit distinctively more when driven from a decent source than the original ZSN, even though that doesn't seem to help much with the ~175-250Hz (appr.) 'mush' on either IEM.
Just my 2 €¢ ... keep it up!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

All this zs10 pro talk has me really regretting not getting one. I just hate the nubs only because I purchased a lot of really nice balanced cables and would like to use them.


----------



## Slater

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> He also said the DM6 was good...



I can only control what comes out of my mouth. I've never heard the DM6, so I can't comment on it.


----------



## Slater

I made up a little graphic to show the difference between the different types of KZ cables, since a lot of people are confused on this.






Feel free to use the image when/where/how you want.


----------



## Nimweth

archdawg said:


> Nice review, Nimweth!
> I particularily like your impressions of musical sequences through those phones and (like usual) the comparisons with other IEMs. The only thing I somehow missed was a comparison between the Pros and the standard ZSN. I own both and like so often there's no clear 'winner' in my book.
> In your review you've mentioned an upgraded version of the 30095 BA in the Pros (any further infos?); well ... generally their treble sounds at least slightly less edgy to my ears. As so often though a lot depends on what you feed them with and at the end of the day the Pros appear more forgiving to me in that area (+1). When it comes to their respective bass and lower mids though the Pros appear more demanding than the Std. ZSN to keep their (KZ idea of) balance. To my ears the lower registers as well as the spectral balance of the Pros benefit distinctively more when driven from a decent source than the original ZSN, even though that doesn't seem to help much with the ~175-250Hz (appr.) 'mush' on either IEM.
> Just my 2 €¢ ... keep it up!


Hi. I was unable to make a comparison with the original ZSN as I do not own that IEM. The info on the 30095 BA was taken from KZ's promotional details. This new iteration does not have the piercing highs of that in the ZST and ES3. The same applies to the CA4 and QT5 as well. I'm happy you like the review, I always write from a musical perspective as after all, that's what it's all about!


----------



## archdawg (May 16, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I always write from a musical perspective as after all, that's what it's all about!



+1 ... couldn't agree more.


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> All this zs10 pro talk has me really regretting not getting one. I just hate the nubs only because I purchased a lot of really nice balanced cables and would like to use them.


just got one from the vendor and will be posting a review anon


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (May 16, 2019)

What Cable on Amazon should I look for if I want to go Balanced? Are there any ? I don't know what type of Connector is uses

EDIT: ZS10 PRO Ordered!

Its on Amazon's Lightning Deal ATM for those that are interested.


----------



## nraymond (May 16, 2019)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> What Cable on Amazon should I look for if I want to go Balanced? Are there any ? I don't know what type of Connector is uses
> 
> EDIT: ZS10 PRO Ordered!
> 
> Its on Amazon's Lightning Deal ATM for those that are interested.



Thanks for the heads up. Regarding balanced cables, you also need to have a device with balanced output (which can be in the form of 2.5mm TRRS, 4.4mm Pentaconn, or 4-pin XLR connectors). Here's a 2.5mm balanced cable that fits the ZS10 Pro on AliExpress, I'm not aware of anything this affordable on Amazon right now:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965501955.html

To connect the headphones with a cable like that, you'd need a DAP with 2.5mm balanced output, like the Onkyo DP-S1 (many other DAPs have that output as well), a portable amp like the SMSL SAP-11 or DAC/amp like the Sabaj Da3. (I should mention you can also adapt 4.4mm Pentaconn or 4-pin XLR to 2.5mm TRRS at the source, with different adapters available from DUNU, Fiio, and Massdrop.)


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Looking for a more specific info like, Does the ZS10 PRO uses 0.78 2-Pin? The Connector looks very Different from other IEM I've seen.


----------



## tgx78

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Looking for a more specific info like, Does the ZS10 PRO uses 0.78 2-Pin? The Connector looks very Different from other IEM I've seen.



0.75. although I heard that 0.78 also works (not recommended)


----------



## nraymond

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Looking for a more specific info like, Does the ZS10 PRO uses 0.78 2-Pin? The Connector looks very Different from other IEM I've seen.



The ZS10 Pro uses 0.75mm 2-pin but with a raised jack with the idea that the cable plugging into it has an integrated shroud around it. This is also referred to as a "Paragraph C" or "Para C" connector. See earlier posts in the thread discussing this and the C-type balanced cable I linked to (which is listed as 0.78mm, at least one person in this forum has the cable and said it fits fine, others have mentioned that using a 0.78mm cable in a 0.75mm socket can make 0.75mm cables fit less securely - it is my understanding that 0.75mm and 0.78mm refer to pin diameter, so a 0.75mm socket is a slightly tight fit for a 0.78mm pin).


----------



## mbwilson111

nraymond said:


> Here's a 2.5mm balanced cable that fits the ZS10 Pro on AliExpress, I'm not aware of anything this affordable on Amazon right now:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965501955.html



That is the cable I have on my ZSN.  I have a couple of DAPs with balanced output.  Nice cable.


----------



## randomnin

Could someone with multiple sources and cables be so kind and do this experiment for me -

take at least two IEMs, find some left\right channel test audio, set the loudness level to sound the same with the IEMs for the source, then listen to the samples, but listen to the track while having only the opposite channel in your ear. Check if there are differences in the channel "leak" (crosstalk) between IEMs. Check if using different cables and sources changes the result of the comparison.
I've only checked three IEMs with the same source and stock cables - I heard audible difference of leaking ZSN having the least leak, then ZS4, then Westone 1.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> I made up a little graphic to show the difference between the different types of KZ cables, since a lot of people are confused on this.
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to use the image when/where/how you want.



Can type A cables work on B and C IEM?


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> Can type A cables work on B and C IEM?



Yes. A and B type works on C IEMs.

Just be aware that when using A or B cables on a C IEM, the cable will stick up a little bit. This is because the female jack on the C IEM itself is raised up a few millimeters.


----------



## shockdoc

Anyone care to comment on some of the better values in upgraded cables for a novice KZ collector. My latest is only the ZSN but I'm considering the ZS10 Pro in the near future. Oh, and I don't have a balanced source. TIA


----------



## randomnin

shockdoc said:


> Anyone care to comment on some of the better values in upgraded cables for a novice KZ collector. My latest is only the ZSN but I'm considering the ZS10 Pro in the near future. Oh, and I don't have a balanced source. TIA


This is pretty comprehensive and has the cold hard numbers every human is born to love dearly - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...uck-cable-thread.891911/page-19#post-14637360


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> I have quite a few KZ earphones and can say ZS10 Pro is the best KZ iem I have had the pleasure to listen to.


That's scandalous. Better than the ZS7???


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> All this zs10 pro talk has me really regretting not getting one.


You speak like its sold out and never being manufactured again.


----------



## CYoung234

Quick question for the group, particularly those who like the regular ZS10 and who own both the ZS10 and ZS10 PRO. How do they compare, and how do they compare to the CCA C16? I am waiting for my C16 to arrive, and love the regular ZS10. My daily drivers right now are it, with Auvio tips and a Tin Audio T2 with the screens removed and Auvio tips. I think I am going to love the C16 with Auvios, of course, but wondered if the ZS10 PRO would be redundant?


----------



## moisespr123

nraymond said:


> The ZS10 Pro uses 0.75mm 2-pin but with a raised jack with the idea that the cable plugging into it has an integrated shroud around it. This is also referred to as a "Paragraph C" or "Para C" connector. See earlier posts in the thread discussing this and the C-type balanced cable I linked to (which is listed as 0.78mm, at least one person in this forum has the cable and said it fits fine, others have mentioned that using a 0.78mm cable in a 0.75mm socket can make 0.75mm cables fit less securely - it is my understanding that 0.75mm and 0.78mm refer to pin diameter, so a 0.75mm socket is a slightly tight fit for a 0.78mm pin).



I actually use 0.78mm cables and I haven't had any issues with them. The original 0.75mm cable still fits and works. Also, I didn't had to push the 0.78mm cables too hard to make it fit into the ZS10 Pro. It seems the socket is a bit bigger? For the ZS7 I did had to make more pressure to fit them. Also, I'm just using standard cables, like the ones in A and B.


----------



## Aparker2005

My as16 should be here today!


----------



## loomisjohnson

CYoung234 said:


> Quick question for the group, particularly those who like the regular ZS10 and who own both the ZS10 and ZS10 PRO. How do they compare, and how do they compare to the CCA C16? I am waiting for my C16 to arrive, and love the regular ZS10. My daily drivers right now are it, with Auvio tips and a Tin Audio T2 with the screens removed and Auvio tips. I think I am going to love the C16 with Auvios, of course, but wondered if the ZS10 PRO would be redundant?


the zs10 pro is a different animal than the zs10--the pro is brighter, more treble-focused and has a more intimate stage. also, it's a smaller, sleeker design and its fit and comfort are much better. haven't heard the c16.


----------



## gourab1995 (May 17, 2019)

Can anyone with the BQEYZ KC2 compare the sonic qualities like detail retrieval, soundstage, imaging and layering with the ZS7 or ZS10 Pro, disregarding the tonality (sound signature) of them?


----------



## Aparker2005

So these as16 are definitely louder than any other kz I've had. Separation and clarity is the best I've heard yet. 

Bass so far seems a little pulled back compared to the as10 and ZS10.


----------



## VICosPhi

@Hawaiibadboy posted his KZ ZS 10 Pro review. 

I got it after his initial impressions a few weeks ago and I like it better than ZS7. Glad to see he likes it better than more expensive KZ and DMS.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

VICosPhi said:


> @Hawaiibadboy posted his KZ ZS 10 Pro review.
> 
> I got it after his initial impressions a few weeks ago and I like it better than ZS7. Glad to see he likes it better than more expensive KZ and DMS.



I like the guy a lot, but how da eff does he talk about ZS10 PRO for 20 minutes? Seriously should be like 5 minutes max. LOL.


----------



## HungryPanda

Also I am loving the DMS


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

um

If theres an Issue w/ KZ IEM, where and How you get it Fix? or Do you just throw them out and get another.


----------



## VICosPhi

BadReligionPunk said:


> I like the guy a lot, but how da eff does he talk about ZS10 PRO for 20 minutes? Seriously should be like 5 minutes max. LOL.


He's awesome! He's also pretty thorough with his reviews, even for the value IEM


----------



## Slater

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> um
> 
> If theres an Issue w/ KZ IEM, where and How you get it Fix? or Do you just throw them out and get another.



Can you provide a little more information?

Like what is the exact issue? Where did you buy them? When did you buy them?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Slater said:


> Can you provide a little more information?
> 
> Like what is the exact issue? Where did you buy them? When did you buy them?



Oh I'm just trying to get a general idea of where to go if problem occurs since I've never bought any KZ IEM. I've heard their QC isn't good / poor. 

I bought the ZS10 PRO from Linsoul-Amazon a few days ago, say If it randomly breaks after the 30-Day I conact Linsoul?


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Oh I'm just trying to get a general idea of where to go if problem occurs since I've never bought any KZ IEM. I've heard their QC isn't good / poor.
> 
> I bought the ZS10 PRO from Linsoul-Amazon a few days ago, say If it randomly breaks after the 30-Day I conact Linsoul?



Yes, that’s what I would do.

Just be aware KZs (and most all of ChiFi) don’t have some awesome blanket 3 year warranty that covers accidental breakage, with service centers all over the US. It’s not like AppleCare or the warranty on a new car.

If you have a problem beyond 30 days, you can definitely work with the seller. But most likely you’ll be asked to ship the defective product back to China for repair/exchange. Which in most cases will cost more than the product itself. So for example, it costs between $30-$40 to ship an earphone from Ohio back to China. Not worth it for a $20 or $30 IEM. That’s not KZs fault though, but rather the reality of today’s global fuel and logistics prices.

And no, KZ or Linsoul won’t reimburse you shipping charges. Again, this isn’t Apple or Amazon.

That’s why (in most cases) products from China have a reputation of just ‘throwing them away if they go bad’.

This isn’t some isolated KZ phenomenon either. It’s the same story for them all.

The good news is that, regardless of what you may have heard, QC for KZs is *not* poor IMO. Out of the 50+ KZs I own or have owned, I’ve had QC problems with 3. And all 3 of those issues were defects right out of the box, which we’re promptly taken care of. That’s why it’s a smart idea to test your stuff right away. Burn it in for 10-20 hours at normal listening volume, test it for drivers wired out of phase (link in my signature). That way, if there is a problem you can correct it within 1-2 days and not waiting 4+ months.

Note that “QC problems” a lot of people report are in reality due to abuse or damage from use. Dropping an IEM on a hard surface such as a floor or concrete can and will damage the drivers. So will heavy sweating from exercise, snagging the cables on door knobs, rolling them in a tangly ball and cramming them in your pants pocket, etc. Same will burning it in at MAX volume. My tweener niece goes through 2 phones and iPads a year. It’s never “QC defects”, but rather user error (jumping in the swimming pool with her phone, getting mad and throwing it against the wall, sitting on it, putting her iPad in the very bottom of her book bag and piling 40lbs of textbooks on top, etc).

Just like anything, if you take care of it, it will take care of you. Use a storage case when not in use, don’t drop it or abuse it, keep it clean, don’t blow the drivers from too much volume, keep it away from moisture and water, don’t pull and jerk the cables around causing damage from wire strain, etc. I have IEMs that are years and years old, that are 90% as perfect as the day I took them out of the box.


----------



## Zune

I'm probably going to order myself a pair of ZS10 Pro's and I'm looking for a balanced cable. The 0.75mm pin cable on aliexpress is no longer available. Is the one below on eBay a good alternative?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KZ-ZS10-...9a:m:mpX0gR8H8FzDXBwzIxkGjUQ&var=563626713182


----------



## groucho69

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Oh I'm just trying to get a general idea of where to go if problem occurs since I've never bought any KZ IEM. I've heard their QC isn't good / poor.
> 
> I bought the ZS10 PRO from Linsoul-Amazon a few days ago, say If it randomly breaks after the 30-Day I conact Linsoul?



I have many KZ and never had any issue ever.


----------



## HungryPanda

Zune said:


> I'm probably going to order myself a pair of ZS10 Pro's and I'm looking for a balanced cable. The 0.75mm pin cable on aliexpress is no longer available. Is the one below on eBay a good alternative?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KZ-ZS10-...9a:m:mpX0gR8H8FzDXBwzIxkGjUQ&var=563626713182


 It would fit but not perfectly as ZS10 Pro is paragraph C connector, that cable only comes in A or B


----------



## Zune

Dammit, in that case i can't find a 0.75mm pin cable with the right connector


----------



## Slater

Zune said:


> Dammit, in that case i can't find a 0.75mm pin cable with the right connector



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2919#post-14940666


----------



## Zune

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2919#post-14940666



Thanks Slater, in that case i'll wait and pick one up when they are widely available


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

Zune said:


> Thanks Slater, in that case i'll wait and pick one up when they are widely available



Oh, they’re widely available now. I have 2. They are great cables; fit nice, look nice, built nice.

I just didn’t get the balanced plug though, because I don’t need balanced. Mine was just the plain 3.5mm end. To get the balanced end, you simply message the seller and request it and they ship you the right one. It might be an extra buck or 2; I don’t know for sure if they charge a little extra for the balanced end or not.

If you search Aliexpress for “jcally ZSN cable”, you’ll see them all pop up. I have the black 8-wire braided one and the super thick 4-wire one. The 4-wire and 16-wire ones are crazy thick though, so I’d recommend the black 8-wire one. They also have a thinner 4-wire one that would be OK too.

In other words, I’d recommend these 2 if you don’t want something that’s as thick and heavy as a garden hose. The bottom one is similar to the stock cable (except available balanced). The top one would be an “upgrade” over the stock one, as it’s lower resistance. Either would be just fine though.


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/JCA...ZSN-Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3/32968923014.html  you can pick which termination


----------



## Zune

Slater said:


> Oh, they’re widely available now. I have 2. They are great cables; fit nice, look nice, built nice.
> 
> I just didn’t get the balanced plug though, because I don’t need balanced. Mine was just the plain 3.5mm end. To get the balanced end, you simply message the seller and request it and they ship you the right one. It might be an extra buck or 2; I don’t know for sure if they charge a little extra for the balanced end or not.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much Slater. I'll order one of the top ones and see how i get on. I'm guessing 0.78 2 pin connector will still fit the ZS10Pro fine even though it recommends 0.75mm


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 18, 2019)

Zune said:


> Thank you so much Slater. I'll order one of the top ones and see how i get on. I'm guessing 0.78 2 pin connector will still fit the ZS10Pro fine even though it recommends 0.75mm



I have it and it fits my ZSN (which uses the same connector) perfectly.  Somewhere in the thread I posted a picture.  That measurement is the diameter of the pins.  Think how tiny that difference is.  Also, I wonder if during manufacturing they are THAT precise or just somewhere in that range of .75mm -.78mm.


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

Zune said:


> Thank you so much Slater. I'll order one of the top ones and see how i get on. I'm guessing 0.78 2 pin connector will still fit the ZS10Pro fine even though it recommends 0.75mm



No problem.

Just pick the option that says “for ZSN”. It fits mine perfectly; ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc.

Don’t worry about the 0.78mm stuff. Just choose the ZSN one and you’ll be fine (they know which plug and pin size you’ll need).


----------



## Zune

Slater said:


> No problem.
> 
> Just pick the option that says “for ZSN”. It fits mine perfectly; ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc.
> 
> Don’t worry about the 0.78mm stuff. Just choose the ZSN one and you’ll be fine (they know which plug and pin size you’ll need).



I've been looking at the other cable Slater. The one in this link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/JCA...lgo_pvid=9d19e8b2-aebd-45d1-8cad-f0fdae332b03


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 18, 2019)

This is the exact link for where mine is from.  We ordered it way back in January.  It is the same cable as the one in your link above. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965501955.html[/QUOTE]


----------



## Zune

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the exact link for where mine is from.  We ordered it way back in January.  It is the same cable as the one in your link above.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-S...Earphone-Headset-2-5mm-3-5mm/32965501955.html


[/QUOTE]

Sorry, i'm new to all this. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Slater

Zune said:


> I've been looking at the other cable Slater. The one in this link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/JCA...lgo_pvid=9d19e8b2-aebd-45d1-8cad-f0fdae332b03



Yeah, that’s the same cable I’ve been referring to. That’s the one I recommend.


----------



## Zune

Slater said:


> Yeah, that’s the same cable I’ve been referring to. That’s the one I recommend.



Spot on, thanks Slater


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

Hey, I just ran into a possible chink in the armor of the ZS10 Pro today.

I don’t know if it’s a legit concern, or just in the particular recording I was listening to (Pandora on high res mode, via AAC between my iPhone and TRN BT20).

Anyways, on Duran Duran’s Come Undone, there’s some percussion instrument _during the chorus_ - I don’t know exactly what it is - tambourines, jingle bells, etc. It appears around 1:40, and it is extra harsh when layered with the ‘chorus’ effect they have going on with the background vocals at the same time

It’s quite harsh and generally not pleasant at all. It’s at a very specific frequency, and I have never noticed it in any other song on the ZS10 Pro until today.

Lemme know if you hear the same thing as me.

It may not be the ZS10 itself though. It could just be something with the pairing between the ZS10 and the TRN BT20 (impedance or something that accentuates that frequency of the particular BA driver). If it is the BT20, I’ll just not pair the ZS10 Pro with it.

*Update: I just listened to a flac of the same song from the Greatest Hits album, and it sounds amazing. So the issue was either the pairing of the ZS10 Pro with the BT20 or the recording from Pandora. Just goes to show you how the end result we experience can vary wildly depending on a number of factors! Someone says this or that IEM sucks etc, and it’s the source music they are feeding it all along.*


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

QUESTION for ZS10 PRO Owners...

_*Have you guys done any Tip Rolling? If so What Tip(s) have you guys settle on?*_

I usually use Final E Tips but it seems too Small.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm using large starlines with my ZS10 Pro


----------



## Slater

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> QUESTION for ZS10 PRO Owners...
> 
> _*Have you guys done any Tip Rolling? If so What Tip(s) have you guys settle on?*_
> 
> I usually use Final E Tips but it seems too Small.



Auvios


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gourab1995 said:


> Can anyone with the BQEYZ KC2 compare the sonic qualities like detail retrieval, soundstage, imaging and layering with the ZS7 or ZS10 Pro, disregarding the tonality (sound signature) of them?


BQEYZ is taking a hit on Amazon. I saw a lot of bad reviews.


----------



## Le Stef

Slater said:


> Hey, I just ran into a possible chink in the armor of the ZS10 Pro today.
> 
> I don’t know if it’s a legit concern, or just in the particular recording I was listening to (Pandora on high res mode, via AAC between my iPhone and TRN BT20).
> 
> ...



I haven't received my ZS10 Pro yet, but I compared that sound in the song between my around-ear Audio-Technica ATH-M40 and the CCA C10, and these sounds you mention appear quite unpleasant as well on the CCA C10 (which mediums are way more forward than on the AT); other songs didn't sound the same, so I'm wondering if this might be due to a bad original recording in first instance (not so great sound engineer or equipment at time of recording?) rather than e defect in the tuning of the iem.

In any case, the fact that the ZS10 Pro seems incompatible with Duran Duran is no bad news... Just kidding, no bully, no bully


----------



## Mybutthurts (May 18, 2019)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> QUESTION for ZS10 PRO Owners...
> 
> _*Have you guys done any Tip Rolling? If so What Tip(s) have you guys settle on?*_
> 
> I usually use Final E Tips but it seems too Small.



I usually go to my new bee silicone large tips. But with ZS10 Pro Ive been using some generic large tips I got from AliExpress.
They have a slightly smaller bore and they make for a pleasing sound

Going to have listen to other  KZ iems to see any differences in them.

Search for...

10 Pcs/5 Pairs Eartips.

Link failed for me.
Lots of different tips out there.


----------



## HungryPanda

LaughMoreDaily said:


> BQEYZ is taking a hit on Amazon. I saw a lot of bad reviews.


 Everything on Amazon gets bad reviews, especially from numbskulls that haven't a clue what they are talking about. BQYEZ make really great iems.


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Everything on Amazon gets bad reviews, especially from numbskulls that haven't a clue what they are talking about. BQYEZ make really great iems.



A high % of Amazon reviews are fake. Besides companies paying for positive reviews, it’s very common for competitors to pay for or post negative reviews.

Also I just checked, and between every single BQEYZ IEM on Amazon there’s (2) 1-star reviews. Two. 90% are 4 or 5-star reviews. I don’t see how that’s “a lot” of bad reviews.


----------



## Slater

Le Stef said:


> I haven't received my ZS10 Pro yet, but I compared that sound in the song between my around-ear Audio-Technica ATH-M40 and the CCA C10, and these sounds you mention appear quite unpleasant as well on the CCA C10 (which mediums are way more forward than on the AT); other songs didn't sound the same, so I'm wondering if this might be due to a bad original recording in first instance (not so great sound engineer or equipment at time of recording?) rather than e defect in the tuning of the iem.
> 
> In any case, the fact that the ZS10 Pro seems incompatible with Duran Duran is no bad news... Just kidding, no bully, no bully



Yes, it’s likely the original recording. A hot mic, poor sound engineering/mastering, etc.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> BQEYZ is taking a hit on Amazon. I saw a lot of bad reviews.


Going to call BS here. The KC2 has one review and its 5 star. The KB1 has 2 reviews. One is 5 star and one is 2 star. The 2 star review was worded as if the guy had no effing clue how to earphone. Complained of no bass and earphones kept falling out and wouldn't stay in his ears. Lastly the BQ3 has a 4 star review from Doc Holliday. 

Anyway as a general rule.

1. Amazon reviews are generally fake.
2.Most consumers are dumb.
3. Most of the reviews for item are actually from differant items totally unrelated to item you are interested in. Case in point. the KC2 review had 14 reviews. Only one of them was for the actual KC2. the other 13 were for various other KZ iems.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> Going to call BS here. The KC2 has one review and its 5 star. The KB1 has 2 reviews. One is 5 star and one is 2 star. The 2 star review was worded as if the guy had no effing clue how to earphone. Complained of no bass and earphones kept falling out and wouldn't stay in his ears. Lastly the BQ3 has a 4 star review from Doc Holliday.
> 
> Anyway as a general rule.
> 
> ...



I saw one bad review because the user did not know how to attach the cable so he/she returned it.


----------



## archdawg

Slater said:


> Yes, it’s likely the original recording. A hot mic, poor sound engineering/mastering, etc.


When it comes to phones I could easily live with nothing but some nice sub-$50 chi-fis these days but crappy recordings/mixing/mastering/conversions just drive me nuts.


----------



## KimChee

It may seem odd, but it struck me today while listening to my lower gear that I could be happy with Hidizs AP80/Zishan Z3 and the lowly CCA CA4, or the ZS7 or CCA16 if something happened and I had to get rid of all my high end stuff.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Going to call BS here. The KC2 has one review and its 5 star. The KB1 has 2 reviews. One is 5 star and one is 2 star. The 2 star review was worded as if the guy had no effing clue how to earphone. Complained of no bass and earphones kept falling out and wouldn't stay in his ears. Lastly the BQ3 has a 4 star review from Doc Holliday.
> 
> Anyway as a general rule.
> 
> ...



Of course it’s BS. Some people like to stir the pot. That’s all I’ll say on the matter.


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> When it comes to phones I could easily live with nothing but some nice sub-$50 chi-fis these days but ****ty recordings/mixing/mastering/conversions just drive me nuts.



Agreed. Every time I think my phone can somehow replace a proper DAP, I run into exactly what I ran into today.

Sure, streaming Bluetooth from a phone is ok for background music (working out, yard work, etc), but for serious listening it just doesn’t cut it. At least not for another 5-10 years.


----------



## moisespr123

Got the KZ HD Bluetooth cable. The bad version sounds bad. It sounds like there's a lot of bass. This is what other reviewers on AliExpress also mentions. I'll contact KZ and see if this will be eventually fixed.


----------



## khighly

KimChee said:


> It may seem odd, but it struck me today while listening to my lower gear that I could be happy with Hidizs AP80/Zishan Z3 and the lowly CCA CA4, or the ZS7 or CCA16 if something happened and I had to get rid of all my high end stuff.


Yeah KZ's are fine for me. I doubt anything can get better than this to be honest. My IT03's while perfectly fine, aren't really worth $200 more than any KZ I own. I can live fine on KZ's.


----------



## khighly

Just got both of these. Will provide some reviews in 24-48 hours. *aptX HD cable antenna is fixed*, however they sound like they're doing 8Khz/channel audio as if it's not becoming an audio sink, instead just a normal phone headset. Also says "power off" when you turn it on. aptX HD confirmed, but my debug log on linux doesn't really show me anything out of the ordinary for what could be wrong. Hoping KZ sends another.


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

khighly said:


> Yeah KZ's are fine for me. I doubt anything can get better than this to be honest. My IT03's while perfectly fine, aren't really worth $200 more than any KZ I own. I can live fine on KZ's.



That’s the thing.

Some of these really good budget IEMs will get you “90%” of the way to a high end sound.

Where the bigger money starts coming into play is chasing those last few %.

You spend $100, or $200, or $400, you get some small incremental improvements, but still not at that high end sound.

You spend $1000, you get some more small incremental improvements, but still not at that high end sound.

You spend $2000, $2500, now you’re getting really close to those last few % of the high end sound. What about $3000? $4000?

How much are those last few % worth to the average person?

Oh, and don’t forget that you can’t take full advantage of that $3000 high end sound without an equally high end cable. And a high end source too. And maybe an amp. So add all the extra cash for that too.

You’re chasing those tiny fractions of a % with more and more dollars. As you spend more money you get lesser and lesser gains. Like the difference between 99.9%, 99.99%, and 99.999%.  Those small fractional gains get incrementally more and more expensive.

It can be never ending.

That’s why some people are perfectly happy with some good budget gear, and calling it a day.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I was listening to Belly's newest album Dove today using $7 RY4s UE on my Axon 7m and life couldn't have been better.


----------



## antdroid

I think my current ranking for KZ (price and performance being factors) is:

1. ZS10 Pro
2. ZSN
3. AS10
4. ZS7
5. ZSN Pro

Of those, I actually only like the first two and really only the first one, since ZSN is more of a price to performance bonus.
Hoping to try out the AS16 soon.


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

antdroid said:


> I think my current ranking for KZ (price and performance being factors) is:
> 
> 1. ZS10 Pro
> 2. ZSN
> ...



My list is very similar. I don’t own the AS10, so I can’t rank it.

My KZ list (of what I own and like the signature of) would go:

1. ZS10 Pro
2. ZS7
3. ZS6 (yes, the ZS6)
4. ZSN
5. ZS1 v1

I’d love to mod 1 of my ZS1 v1 with one of the more current and badass KZ dynamic drivers, but I’m afraid I’ll botch it up somehow. It’s too good and too rare to risk screwing it up, when it sounds really good as it is.

I ordered some Knowles BAs to upgrade the ZSN, so at least I’m looking forward to giving that a nice little upgrade


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> My KZ list would go:
> 
> 1. ZS10 Pro
> 2. ZS7
> ...



1. ZS10 Pro (Pending, Possibly)
2. ZS7
3. ZS6
4. ZSN Pro (Sparkle!)
5. AS10

Spinfits never seal in exactly 1 ear on any of my IEM's. Which ear differs.


----------



## Slater (May 18, 2019)

Dang, you folks are really making me regret not having the AS10. Maybe I’ll knab a pair of they have good prices during 11.11.

I do have the C16, which I assume is somewhat similar perhaps?

Also, the ZS6 has been a bargain lately. During the Aliexpress anniversary sale a few months ago, I ran a across 1 seller that was asking $20. And that included an additional KZ 8-wire flat braided SPC cable! That cable alone runs $7-$9, so that was a crazy good deal! No coupons or hoops to jump through either. Just $20 and that’s it. They only had 1 color though, but I didn’t care.


----------



## antdroid (May 18, 2019)

Here's proof of my liking of the KZ ZS10 Pro sound sig.

I like the Campfire Solaris, and I like the BGVP DM7. Both have some small little quirks that arent deal killers -- CFA Solaris has a drop in the upper mids, which does provide it's spacious sound, and the DM7 could use a little more upper treble.... well the ZS10 Pro.. is the hybrid of the two. 

It's just not as detailed and as technical.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Slater said:


> Auvios




Are these the Tips you're referring to? https://www.radioshack.com/products/auvio-silicone-replace-tips-large


----------



## KimChee

1 ZS7
2 10 Pro
3 As10

I think the C16 is better than AS10...I found it flat and boring


----------



## Slater

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Are these the Tips you're referring to? https://www.radioshack.com/products/auvio-silicone-replace-tips-large



Yes sir.

Really. Good. Tips.


----------



## Slater

KimChee said:


> 1 ZS7
> 2 10 Pro
> 3 As10
> 
> I think the C16 is better than AS10...I found it flat and boring



You find which one flat and boring? C16? Or AS10?


----------



## khighly

KimChee said:


> 1 ZS7
> 2 10 Pro
> 3 As10
> 
> I think the C16 is better than AS10...I found it flat and boring


I also might prefer the ZS7 over the 10Pro just for the giant low end and proper slam, but I'll give it time.


----------



## moisespr123

My simple unboxing of the KZ HD Bluetooth cable:


----------



## KimChee (May 18, 2019)

AS10, C16 is fantastic. Consider though my fav ciem is Roxanne, fav headphone is D7000 and I really like the zs7, so take it with a grain of salt...



Slater said:


> You find which one flat and boring? C16? Or AS10?


----------



## KimChee

Agreed.  Love that reverberant bass 



khighly said:


> I also might prefer the ZS7 over the 10Pro just for the giant low end and proper slam, but I'll give it time.


----------



## Caipirina

Lovely those top 5 lists. I was just wondering the other day where you guys would position the AS10 on such a list ...

my 'top end' right now is the AS06, with loads of others in the mail (ZS7, ZS10 Pro, AS16 ...) ... so ... I was wondering, since I don't have a 5BA per ear IEM yet ... should I get that one as well ?  I thought I read some reviews calling them 'bright' ... which, to me, is usually a vailed 'lacks in the low end' ...

thoughts? opinions? current deals?


----------



## khighly

Finally laid down with the ZS10's in the dark and listened to some songs on them. 

Holy moly. The big names should be worried. There is nothing missing, nothing is bloated, no sibilance, large soundstage. $34.

My old Saosin favorites that SCREAM in my ears on every other IEM is well tamed with sharp snares.

Wouldn't be surprised to have a ZS5v1 event occur.

More to come.


----------



## voicemaster

1. Zsn pro
2. Zs7
3. Cca c10
4. Zsn
5. As10
 Zs10 pro is coming so this might change hopefully soon.


----------



## gourab1995

LaughMoreDaily said:


> BQEYZ is taking a hit on Amazon. I saw a lot of bad reviews.



I don't think taking Amazon reviews seriously is good in terms of judging sound. It is ok maybe for build etc. Aesthetics too? Plus chi-fi has so much variation in QC making it harder.

A person who has listened to just one or two iems may be commenting on those (I haven't checked Amazon reviews lately though). It is ok to judge sound after having listened to various sound signatures also in different price ranges. And understand what kind of sound signature floats your boat. 

Also I hope I can find people who own a BQEYZ KC2 and a Zs7/10pro to please compare the technical aspects of them. Would be grateful for your opinions and impressions.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gourab1995 said:


> Current fav iems: KZ ZS7, Tin T2, TFZ T2


Are your favourites in order of preference? Are those all worthy iems to own at the same time?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> 1. Zsn pro
> 2. Zs7
> 3. Cca c10
> 4. Zsn
> ...


I find your list interesting as some people are saying the ZSN is better then the ZSN Pro. Why do you prefer the Pro?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 19, 2019)

khighly said:


> My IT03's while perfectly fine, aren't really worth $200 more than any KZ I own. I can live fine on KZ's.


How much more are the IT03's worth than the ZS7? Guesstimate?


----------



## gazzington

I'm wondering about spending on high end iems to go with sp1000 dap. I like the idea of the Solaris but was wondering if any kzs give close to that sound?


----------



## antdroid

gazzington said:


> I'm wondering about spending on high end iems to go with sp1000 dap. I like the idea of the Solaris but was wondering if any kzs give close to that sound?



I posted my graph a page back. I own Solaris and love it. The zs10 pro is closest to it in terms of general sound signature, but Solaris has more detail retrieval, more dynamic, more controlled bass, and a grander larger presentation of sound. Like mentioned by Slater, the premium pricing is trying to get the last extra percent of "stuff".

The sp1000 is a very nice dap! I use the sr15. 

Anyway, the zs10 pro does a lot of stuff right at this price point if you want a well balanced iem that still can be fun and not boring.


----------



## gazzington

antdroid said:


> I posted my graph a page back. I own Solaris and love it. The zs10 pro is closest to it in terms of general sound signature, but Solaris has more detail retrieval, more dynamic, more controlled bass, and a grander larger presentation of sound. Like mentioned by Slater, the premium pricing is trying to get the last extra percent of "stuff".
> 
> The sp1000 is a very nice dap! I use the sr15.
> 
> Anyway, the zs10 pro does a lot of stuff right at this price point if you want a well balanced iem that still can be fun and not boring.


Thanks for the reply. Maybe the zs10pro will be a good way to see if i like a Solaris (no where to try one near me).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 19, 2019)

antdroid said:


> I own Solaris and love it. The zs10 pro is closest to it in terms of general sound signature, but Solaris has more detail retrieval, more dynamic, more controlled bass, and a grander larger presentation of sound. Like mentioned by Slater, the premium pricing is trying to get the last extra percent of "stuff".


Premium iem companies better get out their magnifying glasses to find those needles in a haystack and make sure everything is perfect. The Solaris is $1500USD while the ZS10 Pro is $50USD.

Those high priced iems must be better than perfect. Then again for someone about to spend $1500 on an iem probably doesn't care about perfect. It's called auditory gambling. Lol.


----------



## DynamicEars (May 19, 2019)

gazzington said:


> Thanks for the reply. Maybe the zs10pro will be a good way to see if i like a Solaris (no where to try one near me).



only for sound signature (composition between low, mids, highs) but like @antdroid said, you can't judge the clarity, detail retrieval, sound stage, technical abilities from graph.
the ZS10 pro FR graph is close to Moondrop Kanas Pro also, i just back to Kanas Pro after a month honeymoon with budget toys C10, ****, ZSN Pro. After i got used to them, i felt like they're good enough (they do, for the price), but switched back to Kanas Pro.. ohh that clarity, details, etc like eating fine steak after a month of hamburgers.

Edit : i have to admit though, that KZ top 5 list of users here made me want to buy that ZS10 Pro. not again.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (May 19, 2019)

So *GLORIOUS!*... Got them today, Can't say much but so far so good.


----------



## gbrgbr

Slater said:


> My KZ list (of what I own and like the signature of) would go:
> 
> 1. ZS10 Pro
> 2. ZS7
> ...



Please post your KZ faves less than $20 +- a $ or two.


----------



## DynamicEars

gbrgbr said:


> Please post your KZ faves less than $20 +- a $ or two.



1. ZSN Pro black color
2. ZSN Pro blue color
3. ZSN Pro purple color
4. ZSN purple color
5. ZSN cyan color


----------



## Le Stef

archdawg said:


> When it comes to phones I could easily live with nothing but some nice sub-$50 chi-fis these days but ****ty recordings/mixing/mastering/conversions just drive me nuts.


So true!


----------



## Le Stef

Slater said:


> Agreed. Every time I think my phone can somehow replace a proper DAP, I run into exactly what I ran into today.
> 
> Sure, streaming Bluetooth from a phone is ok for background music (working out, yard work, etc), but for serious listening it just doesn’t cut it. At least not for another 5-10 years.


And you actually wonder why none of the big phone brands pays more attention to premium sound or partner with a big name (or at least a well renown company) specialized in manufacturing DAPs; especially when one considers the size and the weight of e.g. an iPhone XR, there should be way to put a decent amp and a high end sound chip in there; then the UI and the screen would make it a fabulous and versatile DAP. And the next step would be to offer premium iems with them  Then and only them will I give up my DAP!


----------



## Slater

Le Stef said:


> And you actually wonder why none of the big phone brands pays more attention to premium sound or partner with a big name (or at least a well renown company) specialized in manufacturing DAPs; especially when one considers the size and the weight of e.g. an iPhone XR, there should be way to put a decent amp and a high end sound chip in there; then the UI and the screen would make it a fabulous and versatile DAP. And the next step would be to offer premium iems with them  Then and only them will I give up my DAP!



I’m with you, friend.

The fact that most everyone has deleted the 3.5mm audio jack for no good reason should tell you how much phone manufacturers really care about audio.


----------



## skajohyros

khighly said:


> Finally laid down with the ZS10's in the dark and listened to some songs on them.
> 
> Holy moly. The big names should be worried. There is nothing missing, nothing is bloated, no sibilance, large soundstage. $34.
> 
> ...


How is the soundstage compared to the zs5v1?
Cheers


----------



## Slater

gbrgbr said:


> Please post your KZ faves less than $20 +- a $ or two.



In that case, I would rank them:

1. ZS1 v1
2. ZSN
3. ZSN Pro
4. ZS4
5. ED9

But keep in mind that >$20 used to be KZs bread and butter. There’s a lot of great budget choices in that price range that didn’t make the list - ZSR, ZS5 v1, HDS3, ATR, ATE, EDR1, etc


----------



## gourab1995

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are your favourites in order of preference? Are those all worthy iems to own at the same time?



I would say Tin T2 and ZS7 are one of a kind and a must have simultaneously. Their sound signatures being quite different being the reason for having them. ZS7 is fun and great for electronic, psytrance etc. While the Tin T2 presents to you subtle nuances and is great for classical and jazz.

 I had heard good things about the TFZ T2 and wanted to see how well they compete with the ZS7. TFZs have their positives but sound a little artificial to me. My initial plan was to keep one of them (ZS7/TFZ T2). But I found my self grabbing the TFZs sometimes for movies, so I've kept them a while. I'm slowly tilting towards selling them right now.

But to answer your question. Tin T2 and ZS7/TFZ T2. Would be two great pairs to own. (Choosing between the last two depending on your judgement as to which you might like better).

Current order of preference:
1.ZS7  2.TinT2   3.TFZ T2 

The first position for the ZS7 is just because I listen to more electronic music, and so use them the most relative to the others.


----------



## DynamicEars (May 19, 2019)

Slater said:


> I’m with you, friend.
> 
> The fact that most everyone has deleted the 3.5mm audio jack for no good reason should tell you how much phone manufacturers really care about audio.



talking about no 3.5mm audio jack remind me something to ask about, How is TRN BT20 module works with KZ para C connector? I know it will stick out longer but is it safe / strong (edit : and comfortable ) enough for gym using? I'm talking about normal BT20 0.78mm to para C connector like ZSN or ZS10 pro. Thanks in advance Slater


----------



## peskypesky

KimChee said:


> It may seem odd, but it struck me today while listening to my lower gear that I could be happy with Hidizs AP80/Zishan Z3 and the lowly CCA CA4, or the ZS7 or CCA16 if something happened and I had to get rid of all my high end stuff.


I'd be fine with my Fiio X1 and a set of sub-$100 headphones: (Grado SR80, Grado SR60, Sony MDR-V6).
But I could't be happy with IEM's. They just don't give me anywhere near the sound I need.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Well as we are on a Top 5. And the only 5 I've got...

ZS10 Pro
AS10
ZS10
ED12
ATE.

Add a CCA C10 At #3/4 if you include the sister company.


----------



## gbrgbr

Slater said:


> In that case, I would rank them:
> 
> 1. ZS1 v1
> 2. ZSN
> ...



Thanks.
If a _certain_ IEM with a piezoelectric driver were made by KZ, would it make the list ? I'm thinking of getting one.
Wish KZ would release a IEM with a piezoelectric driver. Reading about the _other_ one seems to suggest there are QC issues.


----------



## HungryPanda

My top 5:

ZS10 Pro
ZS7
ZSN
AS10
AS06


----------



## KimChee

IMHO you’ll need a high end iem to go with the sp1000.  In my experience the AKs do not usually sound good without a top end iem/headphone



gazzington said:


> I'm wondering about spending on high end iems to go with sp1000 dap. I like the idea of the Solaris but was wondering if any kzs give close to that sound?


----------



## gazzington

KimChee said:


> IMHO you’ll need a high end iem to go with the sp1000.  In my experience the AKs do not usually sound good without a top end iem/headphone


Fair enough. I'm thinking Solaris


----------



## KimChee

I like having a Grado around particularly a Grado 60 or 325.  I always mod them then sell them, then rebuy them.  It’s a vicious cycle.



peskypesky said:


> I'd be fine with my Fiio X1 and a set of sub-$100 headphones: (Grado SR80, Grado SR60, Sony MDR-V6).
> But I could't be happy with IEM's. They just don't give me anywhere near the sound I need.


----------



## antdroid

gazzington said:


> Thanks for the reply. Maybe the zs10pro will be a good way to see if i like a Solaris (no where to try one near me).



The Solaris isn't something I would recommend to blindly buy without the ability to return it or demo first. It has a unique design and is larger shape and has a larger nozzle size that can be difficult to wear. I spent a few weeks with a loaner set and struggled with fit until I finally found the right ones, and then decided to buy it. Many people have decided not to buy it due to fit.


----------



## DynamicEars

I just wowed by almost everyone's charts here are invaded by ZS10 Pro on top, stroke all the way to the top beating all KZ models. I believe they're that good considering I lik e the ZSN pro too for their price range. I have to resist. Have to..


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> Dang, you folks are really making me regret not having the AS10. Maybe I’ll knab a pair of they have good prices during 11.11.
> 
> I do have the C16, which I assume is somewhat similar perhaps?
> 
> Also, the ZS6 has been a bargain lately. During the Aliexpress anniversary sale a few months ago, I ran a across 1 seller that was asking $20. And that included an additional KZ 8-wire flat braided SPC cable! That cable alone runs $7-$9, so that was a crazy good deal! No coupons or hoops to jump through either. Just $20 and that’s it. They only had 1 color though, but I didn’t care.


i don't own C16, but judging by others' impressions, sound "tubing" and fr graphs, and my impressions about my 2 AS10 units, i'd suggest to pass on AS10


----------



## khighly

DynamicEars said:


> but switched back to Kanas Pro.. ohh that clarity, details, etc like eating fine steak after a month of hamburgers.


I've never noticed any difference in "details" or "clarity" on higher IEM's. My IT03's don't do anything different than the ZS10 Pro's besides sound signature and isolation. I only really notice a change going from DD to BA where things are much less crowded because each BA is tuned to a frequency its good at producing and its not all coming from one speaker. No audible difference heard to me between KZ and Knowles BA's. As someone else above said, it's definitely needle in a haystack type stuff.

If KZ put the ZS10 Pro's in a NiceHCK style shell, made a fancy american english marketing website thick with targeted audiophile marketing propaganda, pictures of yachts and golf courses, elon musk, rockets, etc, raise the price to $800, you'd start getting the connoisseurs commenting positively in this thread, sipping imported Seattle coffee they made in their limited edition aeropress after waking up on their luxury Beneteau sail boat next to their perfect 10 partner in the Bahamas.

Remember, this is all subjective.


----------



## DynamicEars

khighly said:


> I've never noticed any difference in "details" or "clarity" on higher IEM's. My IT03's don't do anything different than the ZS10 Pro's besides sound signature and isolation. I only really notice a change going from DD to BA where things are much less crowded because each BA is tuned to a frequency its good at producing and its not all coming from one speaker. No audible difference heard to me between KZ and Knowles BA's. As someone else above said, it's definitely needle in a haystack type stuff.
> 
> If KZ put the ZS10 Pro's in a NiceHCK style shell, made a fancy american english marketing website thick with targeted audiophile marketing propaganda, pictures of yachts and golf courses, elon musk, rockets, etc, raise the price to $800, you'd start getting the connoisseurs commenting positively in this thread, sipping imported Seattle coffee they made in their limited edition aeropress after waking up on their luxury Beneteau sail boat next to their perfect 10 partner in the Bahamas.
> 
> Remember, this is all subjective.



Of course i respect your own perspective, but for me, the different is quite big. I got sony EX1000 and that is different league, not only in price. But the increment of the sonic isn't as far as the price on higher tier iems like I said. Kanas Pro clarity is far above KZs, this one i can confirm myself, you can ask several user here. Of course everything is subjective, nobody is right or wrong here. If you heard it as the same, I consider it as an advantage, you don't have to spend so much money to please your ears.
KZ did their job great, make a $50 iems can fight  $100 iems but don't forget that a lot of great chifi companies also did great, selling $150 iems sounds like $300 iems, and some selling $300 iems sounds like $500 iems and so on. Not only gimmicky here, they use better materials and technologies, that isn't as cheap as KZ, but they do sounds better. Take a look at ikko OH1, moondrop kanas pro, tanchjim oxygen, bgvp dm7, etc.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

gbrgbr said:


> Please post your KZ faves less than $20 +- a $ or two.


ED9
ZSN
ES4
EDR1




DynamicEars said:


> talking about no 3.5mm audio jack remind me something to ask about, How is TRN BT20 module works with KZ para C connector? I know it will stick out longer but is it safe / strong (edit : and comfortable ) enough for gym using? I'm talking about normal BT20 0.78mm to para C connector like ZSN or ZS10 pro. Thanks in advance Slater



Works fine. No real problems. Sounds great to me.


----------



## maxxevv (May 19, 2019)

Slater said:


> Dang, you folks are really making me regret not having the AS10. Maybe I’ll knab a pair of they have good prices during 11.11.
> 
> I do have the C16, which I assume is somewhat similar perhaps?
> 
> Also, the ZS6 has been a bargain lately. During the Aliexpress anniversary sale a few months ago, I ran a across 1 seller that was asking $20. And that included an additional KZ 8-wire flat braided SPC cable! That cable alone runs $7-$9, so that was a crazy good deal! No coupons or hoops to jump through either. Just $20 and that’s it. They only had 1 color though, but I didn’t care.



Having both the C16 and AS10,  not really much is missed if you have the C16 already.
Its "flatter" sounding comparatively and less lush overall.  As the C16 has a tremendous amount of detail output. Sound stage wise, although generally similar, the AS10 can sound a little airier and the effect of which is a bigger stage.  But due to the detail retrieval of the C16, it does provide the effect of a "deeper" sounding stage.

But I have to add, due to the light weight and shape, the AS10 is an excellent pairing with the BT20 modules. I use them a lot on commutes as they isolate very well for me and are very comfy on the ears both because of the shape and the weight. The C16's though very similar in shape are a little thicker and also obviously heavier. 

The AS10 is extremely easy to drive and very sensitive. If the source is noisy in anyway, you will pick it up quite easily in high gain and low volume setting.  The C16 is marginally harder to drive. Usually its about 10~15% more volume on my LG G6.  On the JDS Atom, the digital volume for the KTB is set at 50% and the Atom at 8 o'clock for the AS10

These are just my impressions of using the 2 earphones on a variety of sources :
i) Foobar 2k > Sabaj Da3 > Balanced and Single Ended
ii) Foobar 2K > Khadas Tone Board > JDS Atom
iii) Foobar 2K > Khadas Tone Board > Matrix HPA-3B
iv) LG G6 Quad DAC
iv) LG G6 Quad DAC > TRN BT20


----------



## requal

Can somebody compare CCA C16 and ZS10 Pro for me?


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> talking about no 3.5mm audio jack remind me something to ask about, How is TRN BT20 module works with KZ para C connector? I know it will stick out longer but is it safe / strong (edit : and comfortable ) enough for gym using? I'm talking about normal BT20 0.78mm to para C connector like ZSN or ZS10 pro. Thanks in advance Slater



I just tried the ZS10 and BT20 yesterday, and wasn’t that impressed with the sound. I haven’t spent a lot of time with that combination though, so I’m not sure if it was just the stuff I was listening to with Pandora or if it’s inherent to the pairing of the ZS10 and BT20 itself.

I have used the BT20 with the ZSN and ZSN Pro with good results though.

As far as how stable it is, as long as you’re careful it is fine. If you had it in your gym bag and it got smooshed, or your shorts pocket and it got sat on or something like that, I would be concerned that the 2-pin plug would bend.


----------



## Folly (May 19, 2019)

Nicely put, this has been my experience as well. When analyzing sound quality, we have to always keep in mind the notion of relative vs absolute peformance, and that people will always have different hearing ability. I think most of us can agree that KZ iems in general, and especially the ZS10, have a high price/quality ratio i.e. excellent relative performance. Whether this performance is adequate will depend on the individual's ears, and if your current iem makes you happy then there why pay more?

To my ears, the ZS10 Pro is a great iem, what you get from what you pay is just a real bargain, its value is off the charts. It is good enough for me as a backup pair or traveling set, but for serious listening it cannot satisfy me because I can hear its faults when compared to my more expensive sets, so I reach for the KPE instead. Sure, the KPE is much more pricey, and I dare say it has a lower price/performance ratio than the ZS10, but no doubt its absolute sonic performance is higher. But that is why we are all so lucky, with all the different options to choose from to fit our needs and budget.



DynamicEars said:


> Of course i respect your own perspective, but for me, the different is quite big. I got sony EX1000 and that is different league, not only in price. But the increment of the sonic isn't as far as the price on higher tier iems like I said. Kanas Pro clarity is far above KZs, this one i can confirm myself, you can ask several user here. Of course everything is subjective, nobody is right or wrong here. If you heard it as the same, I consider it as an advantage, you don't have to spend so much money to please your ears.
> KZ did their job great, make a $50 iems can fight  $100 iems but don't forget that a lot of great chifi companies also did great, selling $150 iems sounds like $300 iems, and some selling $300 iems sounds like $500 iems and so on. Not only gimmicky here, they use better materials and technologies, that isn't as cheap as KZ, but they do sounds better. Take a look at ikko OH1, moondrop kanas pro, tanchjim oxygen, bgvp dm7, etc.


----------



## archdawg

gbrgbr said:


> Thanks.
> If a _certain_ IEM with a piezoelectric driver were made by KZ, would it make the list ? I'm thinking of getting one.
> Wish KZ would release a IEM with a piezoelectric driver. Reading about the _other_ one seems to suggest there are QC issues.


If you combine 3 different driver technologies (DD, BA, piezo) in one shell you're asking for trouble unless you know exactly what is necessary to get them exactly in tune, which most of the times only really works in a limited dynamic range (sweet zone) anyway. As much as I like my **** (I own two pairs) I mostly use them for electronic music but not for anything where I want precise spatial positioning like jazz, classic or binaural recordings ... just my 2 €¢.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find your list interesting as some people are saying the ZSN is better then the ZSN Pro. Why do you prefer the Pro?



I like a little bit more sparkle in the highs. I like C10's treble and zs7's bass and for me the zsn pro has them both. When I was listening with zs7, often times I wished for more bites in the high and same with c10 where I wished there is a more weight in it's bass, the zsn pro offers those. It just a matter of preference I guess.


----------



## randomnin

archdawg said:


> When it comes to phones I could easily live with nothing but some nice sub-$50 chi-fis these days but ****ty recordings/mixing/mastering/conversions just drive me nuts.


I don't see how more expensive gear would help in the case described. If the audio file is bad, then the gear that fixes the issue will sound worse with normal quality files. Or am I wrong in some way?


----------



## archdawg (May 19, 2019)

randomnin said:


> I don't see how more expensive gear would help in the case described. If the audio file is bad, then the gear that fixes the issue will sound worse with normal quality files. Or am I wrong in some way?



I don't exactly get what you mean by "gear that fixes ...". Audio tracks can be 'bad' in many ways;  some flaws can be fixed relatively easily to some extent (EQ, specific noise reduction, de-essing, ...), others, esp. crappy recordings or mixing jobs not really ... it all depends.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

KimChee said:


> IMHO you’ll need a high end iem to go with the sp1000.  In my experience the AKs do not usually sound good without a top end iem/headphone


I thought the AK SR15 sounded great with the CCA C10.


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> That’s the thing.
> 
> Some of these really good budget IEMs will get you “90%” of the way to a high end sound.
> 
> ...



If I had a time machine, I'd go back to myself $xxxx ago and say "congratulations, your KZ-ATR got you 85% there... now take the rest and enjoy a 3-week vacation."


----------



## SoundChoice

TOP KZ EARPHONES

1. ZS10 Pro
2. ZSN
3. AS10 (for on stage)
4. ZS6
5. ZST
6. ATE/ATR
.
483. Two rusty sardine cans attached with barbed wire
.
.
999. ZS7


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I thought the AK SR15 sounded great with the CCA C10.



Wow I had no idea that you have the AK.


----------



## Slater

SoundChoice said:


> If I had a time machine, I'd go back to myself $xxxx ago and say "congratulations, your KZ-ATR got you 85% there... now take the rest and enjoy a 3-week vacation."



If I had a time machine, I’d go back to 1995 and say “_congratulations, even though Apple stock is $1 right now, and everyone thinks Microsoft is going to drive them out of business, buy as much stock as you can afford. Sell a kidney if necessary. You’ll thank me in 2019._”

Then I’d be able to buy any IEM I wanted.


----------



## archdawg (May 19, 2019)

SoundChoice said:


> If I had a time machine, I'd go back to myself $xxxx ago and say "congratulations, your KZ-ATR got you 85% there... now take the rest and enjoy a 3-week vacation."


When I sold my high-end rig (all Accuphase, custom speakers and cables, etc...) and some other stuff back in 2001 I only kept my music collection, the portable Minidisc and DAT recorders, some AKG cans and went traveling around Asia for a couple years. Didn't miss a single beat and never looked back since.


----------



## tgx78

Slater said:


> If I had a time machine, I’d go back to 1995 and say “_congratulations, even though Apple stock is $1 right now, and everyone thinks Microsoft is going to drive them out of business, buy as much stock as you can afford. Sell a kidney if necessary. You’ll thank me in 2019._”
> 
> Then I’d be able to buy any IEM I wanted.



Haha fun thoughts. Don’t even need to go back that far. Go back six years and angel invest 25k on uber. You will be worth 500 Millions today and own 1% of the company.


----------



## randomnin (May 19, 2019)

archdawg said:


> I don't exactly get what you mean by "gear that fixes ...". Audio tracks can be 'bad' in many ways;  some flaws can be fixed relatively easily to some extent (EQ, specific noise reduction, de-essing, ...), others, esp. ****ty recordings or mixing jobs not really ... it all depends.


Oh yeah, I misunderstood you, you actually said that cheap Chi-Fi is sufficient for a good listening experience. But others who quoted you started implying that bad recordings can somehow be fixed with gear; and not only that, but fixed specifically with audiophile players. Which is nonsense. If your problem is storage, then modern flagships provide up to 512Gb inbuilt storage for all your flacs. Plus microsd storage up to 1Tb. And the only performance problem a smartphone might possess is insufficient power, which is generally irrelevant for IEMs.

Sorry that I conflated your posts with others', should've gotten on their case not yours.




Slater said:


> Hey, I just ran into a possible chink in the armor of the ZS10 Pro today.
> 
> 
> I don’t know if it’s a legit concern, or just in the particular recording I was listening to (Pandora on high res mode, via AAC between my iPhone and TRN BT20).
> ...





Slater said:


> Yes, it’s likely the original recording. A hot mic, poor sound engineering/mastering, etc.





archdawg said:


> When it comes to phones I could easily live with nothing but some nice sub-$50 chi-fis these days but ****ty recordings/mixing/mastering/conversions just drive me nuts.





Slater said:


> Agreed. Every time I think my phone can somehow replace a proper DAP, I run into exactly what I ran into today.
> 
> 
> Sure, streaming Bluetooth from a phone is ok for background music (working out, yard work, etc), but for serious listening it just doesn’t cut it. At least not for another 5-10 years.





Le Stef said:


> So true!





Le Stef said:


> And you actually wonder why none of the big phone brands pays more attention to premium sound or partner with a big name (or at least a well renown company) specialized in manufacturing DAPs; especially when one considers the size and the weight of e.g. an iPhone XR, there should be way to put a decent amp and a high end sound chip in there; then the UI and the screen would make it a fabulous and versatile DAP. And the next step would be to offer premium iems with them  Then and only them will I give up my DAP!


And the weird thing here is that initially Slater concludes that the problem is with the audio file (or running wireless), not the portable gear. Then it somehow turns into exalting the magic pros of specialized players over smartphones. Even Xiaomi for 150 bucks has great crosstalk performances, THD levels well below 1% (inaudible) and flat frequency responses within hundredths of a single decibel.
Unless you want to drive high impedance and\or low sensitivity drivers there's no need for audiophile DACs, players or amplifiers.

By the way, LG has smartphone models that they advertise as having dedicated audio chips. The measurements are not that much better than those of other flagships that don't specially advertise it.


----------



## Slater (May 19, 2019)

randomnin said:


> And the weird thing here is that initially Slater concludes that the problem is with the audio file (or running wireless), not the portable gear. Then it somehow turns into exalting the magic pros of specialized players over smartphones. Even Xiaomi for 150 bucks has great crosstalk performances, THD levels well below 1% (inaudible) and flat frequency responses within hundredths of a single decibel.
> Unless you want to drive high impedance and\or low sensitivity drivers there's no need for audiophile DACs, players or amplifiers.
> 
> By the way, LG has smartphone models that they advertise as having dedicated audio chips. The measurements are not that much better than those of other flagships that don't specially advertise it.



There’s nothing magical about it.

My iPhone doesn’t play flacs. Therefore, I have to play my flacs on my DAP. My DAP has dual card slots, giving me 1TB of storage and I can fit my entire music collection on.

I don’t speak for everyone; I can only speak for myself. Others may have better phones than me, built for audio. If that’s the case, then I’m happy for them (you).

I wish I had such a phone (good audio performance, dual microSD card slots, 3.5mm headphone jack, line out, ability to drive 600ohm headphones). If one exists, please let me know.


----------



## archdawg

randomnin said:


> Oh yeah, I misunderstood you, you actually said that cheap Chi-Fi is sufficient for a good listening experience.


'Nice(r)' sub $50 phones, yeah ...



> But others who quoted you started implying that bad recordings can somehow be fixed with gear; and not only that, but fixed specifically with audiophile players. Which is nonsense.


Agreed ... plain BS.



> If your problem is storage, then modern flagships provide up to 512Gb inbuilt storage for all your flacs. Plus microsd storage up to 1Tb. And the only performance problem a smartphone might possess is insufficient power, which is generally irrelevant for IEMs.


Most of the times I'm using one of my smartphones with 512Gb micro SD cards w/ external DAC or one of my oldies ... x-boxed and modded Cowon D2 or iRiver H140 (does anyone remember those bad boys?).
I can't quite agree though that insufficient power of smartphones or once we're at it cables are irrelevant for IEMs, especially multi-driver configurations but that's a different story altogether.



> Sorry that I conflated your posts with others', should've gotten on their case not yours.


Always looking foward to a fruitful discussion


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 19, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Wow I had no idea that you have the AK.


I don't own one. I heard the SR15 at the Vancouver Audio Festival.


----------



## KimChee

I second trying to demo before buying...I was lucky enough to go to Rocky Mountain Audio Fest several years ago and demo some stuff before buying...back when I was really into the Head-Fi


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I would go back to 97 and buy 10,000 shares of Amazon at $1.50 each. However my dumb ass would have probably sold a couple years later when it was at $35 a share.  I feel like there is no way I would have waited it out till $1900 a share. That means I would have blown all my money by now and I would be here with all you losers talking about KZ iems anyway.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

How soon does KZ discontinue models? With all those talk over the ZS10 Pro, ZS7, etc. 

What happens to the ever lonely and under appreciated BA10?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Doesn't KZ release new IEM every 2 or so weeks? /s


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> My iPhone doesn’t play flacs.



I play flacs on my iPhone using VOX, works like a charm, just don;t ask me about graphs or bitrates or noise floors


----------



## antdroid

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How soon does KZ discontinue models? With all those talk over the ZS10 Pro, ZS7, etc.
> 
> What happens to the ever lonely and under appreciated BA10?



That's my least favorite KZ iem i've tried.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Have any try Balanced on ZS10 PRO? Any Noticable changes in term Sound?


----------



## Le Stef (May 19, 2019)

randomnin said:


> Oh yeah, I misunderstood you, you actually said that cheap Chi-Fi is sufficient for a good listening experience. But others who quoted you started implying that bad recordings can somehow be fixed with gear; and not only that, but fixed specifically with audiophile players. Which is nonsense. If your problem is storage, then modern flagships provide up to 512Gb inbuilt storage for all your flacs. Plus microsd storage up to 1Tb. And the only performance problem a smartphone might possess is insufficient power, which is generally irrelevant for IEMs.
> 
> Sorry that I conflated your posts with others', should've gotten on their case not yours.
> 
> ...



If a phone is fine for someone, then I'm happy for them as well  Everyone has their opinion, taste and need.

I agree with Slater, though, that many DAPs deliver way better sound quality than a phone; from all the phones I've heard, none has ever satisfied my tase or needs and I am by no means a so-called "audiophile", I just like good sound and no phone has ever sounded as good to my ears as some of affordable players on the market, sadly.  Some phones have a lot of power that's true, but they don't sound very good, like not all powerful amplifiers will deliver good sound.  To me, it remains true that there is A LOT of room for improvement for phone manufacturers in terms of audio quality and they could achieve great results if they worked on it.  But for now, as long as the public is satisfied with a phone's great crosstalk performances, low THD levels and flat frequency responses, why should they put any additional effort in sound improvement?  The day people will ask for better audio-quality though, they will.  Since Apple hasn't been offering anything more than the competition for years with the iPhone, this might be a good point to start to finally bring -some- innovation again.

A Honda Civic will bring you from A to B like any luxury car will; it will even drive you from A to B very fast if you need to; but driving from A to B, even at a slower pace, with a luxury car is just different and so much better; some people are totally satisfied with a Honda Civic, others would prefer to drive a luxury car, because they either have different standards, or they just value/pay attention to the better performance or comfort.  And then come Tesla Model 3, which brings driving at another level and the company worked on bringing new technology and exceptional driving experience in an affordable car: That is what some iem manufacturers did with their latest products, this is exactly what we need for the sound in our phones


----------



## courierdriver (May 19, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> only for sound signature (composition between low, mids, highs) but like @antdroid said, you can't judge the clarity, detail retrieval, sound stage, technical abilities from graph.
> the ZS10 pro FR graph is close to Moondrop Kanas Pro also, i just back to Kanas Pro after a month honeymoon with budget toys C10, ****, ZSN Pro. After i got used to them, i felt like they're good enough (they do, for the price), but switched back to Kanas Pro.. ohh that clarity, details, etc like eating fine steak after a month of hamburgers.
> 
> Edit : i have to admit though, that KZ top 5 list of users here made me want to buy that ZS10 Pro. not again.


Yup, I totally get what you're saying about the KPE. Love that set but I'm worried about snapping the pins by taking them out and about, so I need a set that sounds close but not as expensive. I ordered the ZS10 PRO because I think that they will do the job. They seem more Harmon tuned, just like the KPE, which I like. And if they get broken, I'm only out $50.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> I would go back to 97 and buy 10,000 shares of Amazon at $1.50 each. However my dumb ass would have probably sold a couple years later when it was at $35 a share.  I feel like there is no way I would have waited it out till $1900 a share. That means I would have blown all my money by now and I would be here with all you losers talking about KZ iems anyway.


Hey! I object to the term "loser". Lol!


----------



## courierdriver

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Have any try Balanced on ZS10 PRO? Any Noticable changes in term Sound?


I'll let you know when mine arrive this week. I ordered a balanced cable, which will probably get here before the iems themselves.


----------



## SoundChoice

Le Stef said:


> I agree with Slater, though, that many DAPs deliver way better sound quality than a phone;



Since were veering off topic allow me to ask: What’s a good “budget” (under 250) DAP for my first buy? Wi-Fi is nice if I want Spotify but not necessary, doesn’t need BT. Just a thing to play flacs and mp3s and sound much better than my Galaxy phone. The Walkman NWA45B looks intriguing for $180. Help?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Try this - KZ ZS7 EQ Harman Like Less Bright https://imgur.com/gallery/jzjSjor


----------



## Jecht Auron (May 20, 2019)

Slater said:


> Hey, I just ran into a possible chink in the armor of the ZS10 Pro today.
> 
> I don’t know if it’s a legit concern, or just in the particular recording I was listening to (Pandora on high res mode, via AAC between my iPhone and TRN BT20).
> 
> ...




I got my KZ ZS10 Pro friday and while I have been enjoying them. I did notice there was a song and I forgot what it was playing on the iTunes app on my tablet ( galaxy tab s3) it hit a certain point and it was beyond harsh. Almost like certain sounds was fighting each other. It was painful on the ears. Other than that never seen it reappear on any other songs I listen to.

Over all I like the ZS PRO but noticed when I used my pixel 2 head jack dongle on my tablet. Just to see if it would work. There seemed to be more clarity and volume was higher and more instrument definition than if I used the headphone jack itself. Whatever it was it makes it less of a deal breaker for phones not to have the built in jack.

 I may buy one more iem then focus on a dac and maybe even a DAP.  over all I love the ZS Pro and they fit better than my ZSR  as I not a fan of that bump that presses in to my ear when I lay down .

So my collection slowly starts and love reading all the info and advice you guys gives on here. I'm off to buy some buds for them to get a better fit.


----------



## requal

SoundChoice said:


> Since were veering off topic allow me to ask: What’s a good “budget” (under 250) DAP for my first buy? Wi-Fi is nice if I want Spotify but not necessary, doesn’t need BT. Just a thing to play flacs and mp3s and sound much better than my Galaxy phone. The Walkman NWA45B looks intriguing for $180. Help?


 For me, my Sony NW A35 is better then Zishan DSD AK4497, and Shanling M0 (I had them before Sony)


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

courierdriver said:


> I'll let you know when mine arrive this week. I ordered a balanced cable, which will probably get here before the iems themselves.



Curious, what Cable did you go w/?


----------



## CYoung234 (May 20, 2019)

requal said:


> Can somebody compare CCA C16 and ZS10 Pro for me?





HungryPanda said:


> I have quite a few KZ earphones and can say ZS10 Pro is the best KZ iem I have had the pleasure to listen to





loomisjohnson said:


> the zs10 pro is a different animal than the zs10--the pro is brighter, more treble-focused and has a more intimate stage. also, it's a smaller, sleeker design and its fit and comfort are much better. haven't heard the c16.





HungryPanda said:


> My top 5:
> 
> ZS10 Pro
> ZS7
> ...



Well, thanks to these bad influences, I will let you know in a month or so how the CCA C16 and ZS10 PRO compare.... You people are bad...


----------



## jeromeaparis

randomnin said:


> And the weird thing here is that initially Slater concludes that the problem is with the audio file (or running wireless), not the portable gear. Then it somehow turns into exalting the magic pros of specialized players over smartphones. Even Xiaomi for 150 bucks has great crosstalk performances, THD levels well below 1% (inaudible) and flat frequency responses within hundredths of a single decibel.
> Unless you want to drive high impedance and\or low sensitivity drivers there's no need for audiophile DACs, players or amplifiers.



I agree with you, cause I was very surprised when I got my Xiaomi Mi8 lite (175€ on Euro Amazon) that the sound was so great ! As there is no 3.5mm earphone output, I use the stock converter USB-c to 3.5mm

I have a Pioneer DAP XDP-30R with twin Sabre DAC,  used mostly with KZ AS10 on  the balanced 2.5mm output
but I like to listen to the Mi8 lite. It is specialy good with the ES4 (with kz silver plated cable, twisted iron grey) with ZS6 (with trn cable yellow & silver)


----------



## HAMS

DynamicEars said:


> talking about no 3.5mm audio jack remind me something to ask about, How is TRN BT20 module works with KZ para C connector? I know it will stick out longer but is it safe / strong (edit : and comfortable ) enough for gym using? I'm talking about normal BT20 0.78mm to para C connector like ZSN or ZS10 pro. Thanks in advance Slater



BT20 SQ is meh compared to wired to my smartphone. But I hear KZ has better SQ if not for connection issue. BT20 also clamp your ear so much it will get hurt after a while.


----------



## Zune

I've just ordered a set of ZS10 Pro and for the hell of it a set of KZ ATR because they are so stupidly cheap. These will be my first remotely decent IEMs so i'm really looking forward to trying but it looks like they are going to take an age to arrive to the UK.

EDIT: Oh and i've ordered a balanced cable too. Thanks to those who helped me identify the correct one


----------



## Slater

HAMS said:


> BT20 also clamp your ear so much it will get hurt after a while.



You can heat the ear hooks with a hair dryer to loosen them a bit.


----------



## Slater

Zune said:


> ...but it looks like they are going to take an age to arrive to the UK.



You get used to the long wait after a while


----------



## fredhubbard2

Zune said:


> I've just ordered a set of ZS10 Pro and for the hell of it a set of KZ ATR because they are so stupidly cheap. These will be my first remotely decent IEMs so i'm really looking forward to trying but it looks like they are going to take an age to arrive to the UK.




you may not need to wait that long ... depends where you ordered. my eBay purchases usually take about 10 days. hang in there!


----------



## Zune

fredhubbard2 said:


> you may not need to wait that long ... depends where you ordered. my eBay purchases usually take about 10 days. hang in there!



I ordered the IEM's on Amazon and the balanced cable on Aliexpress. My first DAP will arrive in the next four days so I'll be climbing the walls for a little while


----------



## Slater

Zune said:


> I ordered the IEM's on Amazon and the balanced cable on Aliexpress. My first DAP will arrive in the next four days so I'll be climbing the walls for a little while


----------



## Zerohour88

bisonicr's review on the AS16 (in japanese, as usual):

http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55765069.html

a flatter sound sig compared to CCA C16, seems KZ used newer BA models for the highs?


----------



## Aparker2005

Loving my AS16. My favorite of my KZ so far. Gonna keep my as10 for backup


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> bisonicr's review on the AS16 (in japanese, as usual):
> 
> http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55765069.html
> 
> a flatter sound sig compared to CCA C16, seems KZ used newer BA models for the highs?



The odd thing to me is that it sounds like the C16 should have been a KZ and the A16 should have been a CCA. Since balanced signatures is kinda CCAs thing.


----------



## archdawg

Zerohour88 said:


> bisonicr's review on the AS16 (in japanese, as usual):
> 
> http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55765069.html
> 
> ... seems KZ used newer BA models for the highs?



My second set of KZ6 doesn't sound nearly as bright (upper mids) and piercing as my older pair. Maybe these days they're using different 30095 BAs ('customized') than half a year ago and if so they possibly use them for pretty much everything else in their lineup as well. (Still waiting for my third pair, they already cleared customs and should arrive in a couple days.)


----------



## archdawg (May 20, 2019)

vaporized


----------



## courierdriver (May 20, 2019)

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Curious, what Cable did you go w/?


I went with the one @mbwilson111 recd from aliexpress. See her link in previous posts.
C$ 21.01  33%OFF | 8 Strands Cable 0.78mm 2 Pin for QDC ZSN Earphone Headset 2.5mm 3.5mm 4.4mm Custom Earphone Cable for IPhone Android IOS
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/Gb7fWjm


----------



## courierdriver (May 20, 2019)

SoundChoice said:


> Since were veering off topic allow me to ask: What’s a good “budget” (under 250) DAP for my first buy? Wi-Fi is nice if I want Spotify but not necessary, doesn’t need BT. Just a thing to play flacs and mp3s and sound much better than my Galaxy phone. The Walkman NWA45B looks intriguing for $180. Help?


I've been looking around in that price range myself, but I'm going to stretch my budget by $100 and get the Xduoo x20. Ali has it for around $300-335 CDN (it'll probably be less when they have their next big sale). No touchscreen but seems to pack alot of other good sound tech into it. Good dac chip, sd card slot and powerful balanced output makes it appealing to me.


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> The odd thing to me is that it sounds like the C16 should have been a KZ and the A16 should have been a CCA. Since balanced signatures is kinda CCAs thing.



Its interesting that his observation of the higher treble BA's are in line with mine that the C16's treble region don't behave very well with higher power input.  In other words, beyond a certain threshold, you start to catch sibilance and indirectly, distortion.  

So I really wasn't imagining things in my listening assessment.  

They should revisit the Zs6 and replace those 30095 BAs with the latest ones !


----------



## archdawg (May 20, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> They should revisit the Zs6 and replace those 30095 BAs with the latest ones !


As I posted ~30 mins. ago they might have done that already. Now they just need to replace the 10mm DD with the new Tesla driver, give us new colors, better cables and call it ZS6 Pro or whatever.
(I'm listening to some excellent Chesky jazz recordings with my new red ZS6 right now and there's not the slightest hint of sibilance or harshness, just beautiful transparent spaciousness and spatial accuracy. Best 23€ spent in a loong time.)


----------



## loomisjohnson

CYoung234 said:


> Well, thanks to these bad influences, I will let you know in a month or so how the CCA C16 and ZS10 PRO compare.... You people are bad...





HungryPanda said:


> My top 5:
> 
> ZS10 Pro
> ZS7
> ...


it's generally my policy to agree with panda about everything, but here i break ranks and rate the zs7 higher than the zs10 pro, which has more detail but woolier bass and a smaller stage. i might actually place the underrecognized ed16 third; for sentimental reasons i'd have to put the ed9 near the top as well.


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> My second set of KZ6 doesn't sound nearly as bright (upper mids) and piercing as my older pair. Maybe these days they're using different 30095 BAs ('customized') than half a year ago and if so they possibly use them for pretty much everything else in their lineup as well. (Still waiting for my third pair, they already cleared customs and should arrive in a couple days.)



Yes, I too have noticed a difference with ZS6 purchased recently. The highs are more subdued. I don’t know if the drivers or the crossover is different (or both).

But I actually prefer the original one.


----------



## Le Stef

SoundChoice said:


> Since were veering off topic allow me to ask: What’s a good “budget” (under 250) DAP for my first buy? Wi-Fi is nice if I want Spotify but not necessary, doesn’t need BT. Just a thing to play flacs and mp3s and sound much better than my Galaxy phone. The Walkman NWA45B looks intriguing for $180. Help?



Hi; I have a Cayin N3 ($150), which sounds great and has a 10-Band EQ (very useful) and a lot of power if you need to drive bigger earphones, but I find my Sony A45 sounds better and has more energy, produces beefier sound and is very clear, not much output power though, good for iems. Very good sound.  Others say they prefer it over some A&K or the Shanling M0. Both the Cayin and the Sony have BT, but if you stream music online, that won't be directly possible with any of them: that is where phones beat DAPs.


----------



## mbwilson111

Le Stef said:


> Both the Cayin and the Sony have BT, but if you stream music online, that won't be directly possible with any of them: that is where phones beat DAPs.



Except for Android based DAPs with WiFi that do stream.  They are more expensive though.  I personally do not care about streaming.  I have a lot of great music on MicreSd cards.  My Cayin N3 is my most used DAP..  I have a 400 GB card in it.  You do have to factor in the cost of cards.


----------



## archdawg

Slater said:


> Yes, I too have noticed a difference with ZS6 purchased recently. The highs are more subdued. I don’t know if the drivers or the crossover is different (or both).
> 
> But I actually prefer the original one.


I like my old set a lot as well but my ears give a slight nod to the new pair, especially with reference grade recordings of all sorts of horns, strings and cymbals. The upper mids and highs of the new pair just sound distinctively more natural to me. Regarding the cause for that refinement (vs. simple rolled off treble) I tend more towards new BAs since I don't think you can get there by exchanging one or two  components of that humble passive RC crossover. Anyway, just my 2 €¢


----------



## voicemaster (May 20, 2019)

Just got my ZS10 pro and first listening impression is they sound pretty darn similar to my ZSN pro. After further listening, the 10pro is more detailed and in a song with a lot of instruments, the separation is more pronounced and that makes it easier to distinguish between each instrument hence a more detailed sound.
Here is an example:


----------



## auraldesire95

I’ve ordered the ZST Pro from AliExpress but I’m eager to listen to them sooner than the suggested delivery date.

Has anyone ordered them from one of the various sellers on Amazon.co.uk?


----------



## Dobrescu George

I wonder if people from this thread will jump me for a slightly more critical approach to the KZ BA50 and the two ZSN models  

Basically, I felt like both ZSN models were the reason I first started my audio journey into the better audio devices, as for BA50, they have one fatal deisgn flaw, at least for my ears, they have a really sharp corner that cuts into my ear quickly. 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2019/05/kz-knowledge-budget-fi-iems-zsn-ba10-pro-review.html


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> I just wowed by almost everyone's charts here are invaded by ZS10 Pro on top, stroke all the way to the top beating all KZ models. I believe they're that good considering I lik e the ZSN pro too for their price range. I have to resist. Have to..


Believe me, I'm trying to resist, too!


----------



## peskypesky

1clearhead said:


> Believe me, I'm trying to resist, too!


this review doesn't help
http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zs10-pro-review/

but i won't order them, as much as i'd like to hear them. i already have several pairs of IEMs and they are getting less and less use over time. I prefer the sound of headphones for one thing. Even small headphones like the Koss KSC75's. And more importantly, I have sensitive skin in my ears which gets very itchy no matter what type of tip I use. 

There's no doubt the the small form factor of IEM's is attractive when you are mobile, or exercising....but they just don't work for me any more.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> The odd thing to me is that it sounds like the C16 should have been a KZ and the A16 should have been a CCA. Since balanced signatures is kinda CCAs thing.


That's interesting. I have recently reviewed the CA4 and ZSN Pro and thought the same thing, the CA4 should have been a KZ and the ZSN Pro a CCA. It's getting confusing!


----------



## zazaboy

@archdawg which seller did you buy the new version kz zs6 ?


----------



## archdawg (May 20, 2019)

zazaboy said:


> @archdawg which seller did you buy the new version kz zs6 ?


From the official KZ store on Aliexpress. 
Just keep in mind that they need some serious burn-in. I gave mine 100+ hours and noticed quite a change with my trusty test tracks.


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> Believe me, I'm trying to resist, too!



This ZS10 pro sounds so good.


----------



## voicemaster

Group pictures


----------



## raccoon city

I'm looking for KZ IEM's that are bass heavy, and about $15 or less.
Bonus points if the IEM's are nice and loud.
All I have are a pair of KZ ATE-S.
What do you recommend?


----------



## voicemaster

raccoon city said:


> I'm looking for KZ IEM's that are bass heavy, and about $15 or less.
> Bonus points if the IEM's are nice and loud.
> All I have are a pair of KZ ATE-S.
> What do you recommend?


If you could up the budget to $20 then kz zsn is pretty good.


----------



## Dobrescu George

raccoon city said:


> I'm looking for KZ IEM's that are bass heavy, and about $15 or less.
> Bonus points if the IEM's are nice and loud.
> All I have are a pair of KZ ATE-S.
> What do you recommend?



KZ ZSN


----------



## HungryPanda

KZ ZS3e


----------



## mbwilson111

raccoon city said:


> I'm looking for KZ IEM's that are bass heavy, and about $15 or less.
> Bonus points if the IEM's are nice and loud.
> All I have are a pair of KZ ATE-S.
> What do you recommend?



KZ ZS3e


----------



## voicemaster

Problem with zs3 or zs3e is the shape of the iem might not suitable for everyone while zsn shape is pretty universal. I don't know about the sound of zs3e tho, but i do have zs3 and it was pretty nice, but it hurt my ear after awhile.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

raccoon city said:


> I'm looking for KZ IEM's that are bass heavy, and about $15 or less.
> Bonus points if the IEM's are nice and loud.
> All I have are a pair of KZ ATE-S.
> What do you recommend?



Bass heavy is a subjective term and means different things for different people. I consider myself a extreme basshead. KZ ES4 are legit basshead. They also take EQ boost and Amp rather well and can go to a level that most cant. They should be around $12.


----------



## courierdriver

peskypesky said:


> this review doesn't help
> http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zs10-pro-review/
> 
> but i won't order them, as much as i'd like to hear them. i already have several pairs of IEMs and they are getting less and less use over time. I prefer the sound of headphones for one thing. Even small headphones like the Koss KSC75's. And more importantly, I have sensitive skin in my ears which gets very itchy no matter what type of tip I use.
> ...


How ironic, as I'm going in the opposite direction, preferring iem's now over headphones. Had a bad experience many years ago with an iem and swore I'd never buy or like one ever again and then got into headphones. Over the past 6-8 months though (after discovering HBB aka BadGuyGoodReviews on YouTube) and buying the Moondrop Kanas Pro, I'm so impressed with how far iems have come both in sound quality and comfort that I'm seriously thinking about selling my headphones, as I rarely listen to them anymore. I have more of an issue with my ears getting hot and sweaty under the pads, than with iem's causing irritation inside my ears. Funny how everyone thinks differently at times.


----------



## Slater (May 20, 2019)

raccoon city said:


> I'm looking for KZ IEM's that are bass heavy, and about $15 or less.
> Bonus points if the IEM's are nice and loud.
> All I have are a pair of KZ ATE-S.
> What do you recommend?



I left you a message in the big ear thread. I’ll check those large tips for you on a bunch of KZs, and you can decide from there 

_Update: I verified those large tips you need work on the following:

ED9 (both filters)
ATE
ATR
ATE-S
ZSN
ZSN Pro
ZS10 Pro
ZS5
ZS6
ZS7
ZSR
CCA CA4
CCA C10

It does technically fit the EDR1, EDR2, ZS4, ZS3E, but not super tight and may theoretically come off in your ear. It may be OK though._


----------



## Slater (May 20, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> How ironic, as I'm going in the opposite direction, preferring iem's now over headphones. Had a bad experience many years ago with an iem and swore I'd never buy or like one ever again and then got into headphones. Over the past 6-8 months though (after discovering HBB aka BadGuyGoodReviews on YouTube) and buying the Moondrop Kanas Pro, I'm so impressed with how far iems have come both in sound quality and comfort that I'm seriously thinking about selling my headphones, as I rarely listen to them anymore. I have more of an issue with my ears getting hot and sweaty under the pads, than with iem's causing irritation inside my ears. Funny how everyone thinks differently at times.



I enjoy both, but I totally understand your frustration with the headphone hot ear issue. I usually use headphone less (and IEMs more) in the summer, because it’s hot enough I don’t need to make myself even hotter.

It does help if you use an open headphone, especially one with velour pads. The Fidelio X2 or X2HR is a good option, but there’s a million.

Also, Brainwavz just came out with a new universal ear pad that has a layer of cooling gel to address this exact problem. So that may be an option for you, assuming it fits your headphones and doesn’t change the sound in a negative way.

Just giving you some options to consider...


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I enjoy both, but I totally understand your frustration with the headphone hot ear issue. I usually use headphone less (and IEMs more) in the summer, because it’s hot enough I don’t need to make myself even hotter.
> 
> It does help if you use an open headphone, especially one with velour pads. The Fidelio X2 or X2HR is a good option, but there’s a million.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, Slater! I might check into those Brainwavz pads and see if there is something available for the cans I own. Only set of closed back I have is the Takstar Pro82, and funny enough, those I have the least problem with. The pads are super comfy and I can wear them for hours. My 2 open back (Grado SR225 and Massdrop Hifiman 4XX) are the ones that get the warmest for me. The foam pads on the Grado gets itchy fast and I have the new A-pads (I think that's what they call them) on the 4xx that have a velour part that sits against your head over your ear and the rest of the pad is like a pleather memory foam like material which I find gets really hot and uncomfortable after less than 30 minutes of wearing them.


----------



## Slater (May 20, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Thanks for the info, Slater! I might check into those Brainwavz pads and see if there is something available for the cans I own. Only set of closed back I have is the Takstar Pro82, and funny enough, those I have the least problem with. The pads are super comfy and I can wear them for hours. My 2 open back (Grado SR225 and Massdrop Hifiman 4XX) are the ones that get the warmest for me. The foam pads on the Grado gets itchy fast and I have the new A-pads (I think that's what they call them) on the 4xx that have a velour part that sits against your head over your ear and the rest of the pad is like a pleather memory foam like material which I find gets really hot and uncomfortable after less than 30 minutes of wearing them.



Well if you do try the BW gel pads be sure to let us know how you like them. Because I’ve seen others asking about them, and it would be nice to provide them some real world impressions!

Heres the link if you wanna check them out:

https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/blogs/news/new-gel-gaming-earpads

They have 2 different sizes, so maybe 1 of the 2 sizes will fit your cans.

They definitely sound nice - besides the gel the pad surface is micro suede (I guess maybe like an Alcantara material).


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Well if you do try the BW gel pads be sure to let us know how you like them. Because I’ve seen others asking about them, and it would be nice to provide them some real world impressions!
> 
> Heres the link if you wanna check them out:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. My cans aren't listed but maybe I'll try to contact them this week to see if there's anything they can do to hook me up with a set that will fit the cans I own. Thanks again!


----------



## peskypesky

courierdriver said:


> Thanks for the info, Slater! I might check into those Brainwavz pads and see if there is something available for the cans I own. Only set of closed back I have is the Takstar Pro82, and funny enough, those I have the least problem with. The pads are super comfy and I can wear them for hours. My 2 open back (Grado SR225 and Massdrop Hifiman 4XX) are the ones that get the warmest for me. The foam pads on the Grado gets itchy fast and I have the new A-pads (I think that's what they call them) on the 4xx that have a velour part that sits against your head over your ear and the rest of the pad is like a pleather memory foam like material which I find gets really hot and uncomfortable after less than 30 minutes of wearing them.


lol. you and I are like yin and yang. 

I was just going to write that in terms of comfort, my Grado SR80s are tops. So lightweight and open, so my ears don't get too warm. Now, I just moved back Texas, and it gets real hot here, so i may be relying more on my IEM's during the summer months.  I had been living in NYC, and needed IEM's for the subway, to block out all the noise from other passengers.

Ironically, I just ordered the Takstar Pro82's a few days ago to replace my Alessandro MS1's, which have developed a short in the cable. As much as I love the sound and comfort of Grados/Allessandros, those cheap cables are TERRIBLE. That's why I'm reluctantly trying the Takstars.

I'm going to put my KZ ZS5s on now, inspired by this thread.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Thanks for the link. My cans aren't listed but maybe I'll try to contact them this week to see if there's anything they can do to hook me up with a set that will fit the cans I own. Thanks again!



If you have a ruler, just measure your existing pads in millimeters before calling them.

Also, be aware that you can usually put round pads on an oval headphone, and oval pads on a round headphone.

To calculate the fit in those cases, I kinda go by the average size. For example, an 80mm x 100mm oval pad should fit on a 90mm round headphone.

Sometimes it’s trial and error, and you just have to try the pad for yourself. Just keep in mind that just because Brainwavz says it won’t fit (or they don’t know), it may fit after all once you actually try the pad out.


----------



## courierdriver

peskypesky said:


> lol. you and I are like yin and yang.
> 
> I was just going to write that in terms of comfort, my Grado SR80s are tops. So lightweight and open, so my ears don't get too warm. Now, I just moved back Texas, and it gets real hot here, so i may be relying more on my IEM's during the summer months.  I had been living in NYC, and needed IEM's for the subway, to block out all the noise from other passengers.
> 
> ...


Haha! Yeah, I guess we are kinda total opposites. One thing that we have in common is we both like the Grados as far as sound quality is concerned. Personally, I always wished for a bit more bass in my 225's though. I find that the Takstar fits the bill without sacrificing the good stuff like the mids and highs you get in the Grados. Currently, the Pro82 is my favourite headphone of the 3 that I own.


----------



## peskypesky (May 21, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Haha! Yeah, I guess we are kinda total opposites. One thing that we have in common is we both like the Grados as far as sound quality is concerned. Personally, I always wished for a bit more bass in my 225's though. I find that the Takstar fits the bill without sacrificing the good stuff like the mids and highs you get in the Grados. Currently, the Pro82 is my favourite headphone of the 3 that I own.


I'm VERY glad to hear you like the Pro82's!  I was also considering the Monoprice HR-5 open headphones. The're on sale for $49.99.

And yeah, the Grado sound is probably my all-time favorite. Just wish their construction was robust. I've gone through three pairs. That $250 would have bought me a set of Beyerdynamic DT 880's.


----------



## antdroid

I generally prefer over ear headphones over IEMs but agree that IEMs have come a long way now and are pretty competitive up to a point. I still prefer over ears most of the time, but when it gets warmer, like now, I tend to go with IEMs.


----------



## peskypesky (May 21, 2019)

just compared my ZS5's with Rock Zircons....listening to Yes "Siberian Khatru"....and I prefer the Zircons. The treble is a bit more harsh, but overall there's just more punch than the KZs. The ZS5's sound anemic in comparison.

To me, the Rock Zircons are like the Grado SR80s of the IEM world. I should order another pair!.


[edit] ok, i did the comparison using a Bach vocal piece...and for that music, the ZS5 is better. Creamier sounding in the mids and highs.

So, for rock or other bass heavy music, I'll use the Zircons. For classical, the ZS5s.


----------



## peskypesky

Slater said:


> And Zircon tips are very popular and well respected. A lot of people buy the Zircons just to get the tips. Even though the Zircon is meh, the tips are awesome.



The Zircon tips are the best I've received on IEMs. I also love the Zircon sound. It's a little harsh in the treble, but I can live with that because the overall sound is so muscular and fun. When I listen to rock music, i wanna be rocked, and Zircons do that.


----------



## raccoon city (May 21, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Bass heavy is a subjective term and means different things for different people. I consider myself a extreme basshead. KZ ES4 are legit basshead. They also take EQ boost and Amp rather well and can go to a level that most cant. They should be around $12.


Legit basshead sounds good to me!
I'll go with the KZ ES4 unless someone talks me out of it.


----------



## jeromeaparis

raccoon city said:


> Legit basshead sounds good to me!
> I'll go with the KZ ES4 unless someone talks me out of it.


Yes, ES4 is very good, very bassy with the stock cable, and if you change the cable for the
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...5mm-For-KZ-Earphones-ZST-ZS5/32833311374.html
you get a better &  more balanced sound


----------



## hakuzen

added cable 066 to my list of cables measurements (check my signature): jcally, silver plated 5n ofc copper, 8 cores, zsn (c-type) termination. and measurements of zsn version of cable 065 (4 thicker cores).
also found in other colors and terminations.







nice conductivity (equivalent to ~24AWG thickness, around 128mΩ/signal). good enough for most kzs.

found two issues:

1- jack (furutech cheap styled) is low quality (like in cables 065 -jcally-  and 056 -trn-). found a core (L+ in this case) unsoldered or not well soldered. it's the second jcally cable (and all 056 trn cables) where i've found this issue. maybe there is very small space to solder, who knows.

2- this zsn version has got inverted polarization respect KZs norm (both sides); i.e., sign signal should go down (hole at the extreme of the shell), but it goes up (interior hole) in both sides. found same issue at cable 065 (jcally), zsn version, as well.
as both sides have same polarization, they won't be out of phase, and sound won't be affected. but being purist, i'd prefer right polarization, not inverted.
if you get curved 2pins plug, like these zsn type plugs, there is no way to set the right polarization without re-soldering the plugs.


----------



## HAMS

IMO ZSN is not quite bass heavy. But you can equalize down frequencies around 4khz to 10khz to makes it sound smoother and fun basshead IEM.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

HAMS said:


> IMO ZSN is not quite bass heavy. But you can equalize down frequencies around 4khz to 10khz to makes it sound smoother and fun basshead IEM.


Yea, I am trying real hard to think of a KZ iem that has less bass then the ZSN. I consider it quite light on bass. But honestly with EQ(if that's an option for you)then you can definitely improve the bass of it to decent enough levels.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 21, 2019)

jeromeaparis said:


> Yes, ES4 is very good, very bassy with the stock cable, and if you change the cable for the
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...5mm-For-KZ-Earphones-ZST-ZS5/32833311374.html
> you get a better &  more balanced sound



I use mine with TRN BT20 and couldnt be happier. Great for working out/yard work duties where I just wanna listen to some bass heavy music with no wires attached. I also use the TRN 8 core cable to good extent. If I need to listen to more midcentric stuff I have an EQ preset that sculpts the low end down and gets rid of the bleed. It amazes me how good they sound with the bass lowered. Stage is vastly improved and placement is more coherant.

Its a shame they dont get talked about more. ES4 was a nice release.


----------



## cleg

my video about AS16. TL;DR they are good, but too many people will prefer ZS10 Pro. KZ is cannibalizing their own lineup, but that's good for buyers


----------



## peskypesky

BadReligionPunk said:


> I use mine with TRN BT20 and couldnt be happier. Great for working out/yard work duties where I just wanna listen to some bass heavy music with no wires attached. I also use the TRN 8 core cable to good extent. If I need to listen to more midcentric stuff I have an EQ preset that sculpts the low end down and gets rid of the bleed. It amazes me how good they sound with the bass lowered. Stage is vastly improved and placement is more coherant.
> 
> Its a shame they dont get talked about more. ES4 was a nice release.


I like bass-heavy IEM's, so I'm interested in these ES4's.  

Question: how do you listen to them without wires? What bluetooth adapter do you use?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

peskypesky said:


> I like bass-heavy IEM's, so I'm interested in these ES4's.
> 
> Question: how do you listen to them without wires? What bluetooth adapter do you use?



TRN BT20. They are like $33 on Amazon or you can get emptied for 27 on AE. 

I like them very much, but a new version is reported to be coming out with aptx HD so might be worth the wait.


----------



## archdawg

Another day, another reason to hate this thread 
Does anyone know a way to block posts that mention the ZS10 Pro, lol? 
(I already have them in my AE cart but I guess I'm going to wait at least until my ZS7 arrive.)


----------



## tmpsn (May 21, 2019)

Just received a pair of ZS7s, and so far it's been interesting to compare it with the ZS5 and ZS6. The ZS7 midrange stands out much more than on the other two, as well as the lack of the ~10 kHz spike that characterizes the ZS6 and some ZS5 responses. Overall very pleasant to listen to.

Also got the ZSN pro but haven't had much chance to listen yet...Chi-Fi is an addiction...


----------



## courierdriver

peskypesky said:


> I'm VERY glad to hear you like the Pro82's!  I was also considering the Monoprice HR-5 open headphones. The're on sale for $49.99.
> 
> And yeah, the Grado sound is probably my all-time favorite. Just wish their construction was robust. I've gone through three pairs. That $250 would have bought me a set of Beyerdynamic DT 880's.


The Takstar is a big step up in build quality, IMHO compared to Grado. I love them for their comfort and the fact that they are lightweight like Grado. The detachable cable is also a big plus. The sound sig is also fun, just like the Grado...just with the ability to bump the bass with the slider switches. Honestly, the Takstar gives me what I like about the Grado, but with more of the bass that was lacking in them. As a Grado-head (I started with the SR125, and bought my 225 from a member here on headfi), I think the Pro 82 is better in sound and comfort. Of the 3 cans i own, i wouldn't consider selling these. I think that says alot.


----------



## Zerohour88

hakuzen said:


> added cable 066 to my list of cables measurements (check my signature): jcally, silver plated 5n ofc copper, 8 cores, zsn (c-type) termination. and measurements of zsn version of cable 065 (4 thicker cores).
> also found in other colors and terminations.
> 
> 
> ...



reversed like this? might be wired for qdc IEMs then (source from qdc thread):


----------



## hakuzen

Zerohour88 said:


> reversed like this? might be wired for qdc IEMs then (source from qdc thread):


i guess so. thanks for the info.
so bqeyz and qdc use same polarity, opposite to kz.


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> i guess so. thanks for the info.
> so bqeyz and qdc use same polarity, opposite to kz.



Nice observation guys. I didn’t know that BQEYZ was wired opposite to KZ.

And I tested both my JC Ally cables “for ZSN”, and they are wired backwards as well. So it appears they were designed for QDC, but being sold for ZSN. Very interesting indeed!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 22, 2019)

I tried my new beautiful **** 6 core copper braided cable on my ZS7 and the stock cable has a much nicer punch and better sound quality.

What iem does this cable work good for? Do I have to find out the hard way? ;(


----------



## peskypesky

courierdriver said:


> The Takstar is a big step up in build quality, IMHO compared to Grado. I love them for their comfort and the fact that they are lightweight like Grado. The detachable cable is also a big plus. The sound sig is also fun, just like the Grado...just with the ability to bump the bass with the slider switches. Honestly, the Takstar gives me what I like about the Grado, but with more of the bass that was lacking in them. As a Grado-head (I started with the SR125, and bought my 225 from a member here on headfi), I think the Pro 82 is better in sound and comfort. Of the 3 cans i own, i wouldn't consider selling these. I think that says alot.


that makes me excited to receive my Takstars. I'm a Grado head too....but the horrible build quality has forced me to buy another brand.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> I totally get what you're saying about the KPE. Love that set but I'm worried about snapping the pins by taking them out and about, so I need a set that sounds close but not as expensive.


I heard the Moondrop Crescent sounds 70% like the Kanas Pro and it's $30USD.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I think Nxnje said the Tin Audio T3 is better than the ZS10 Pro... am I right, Nxnje? Has anyone else compared the two models?


----------



## loomisjohnson

just posted my take on the kz zs10 pro on the audioreviews.org blog---i personally prefer the warmer tonality and tighter bass of the zs7, but they're both at the top of the kz pyramid


----------



## moisespr123

I got used the the ZA10 Pro highs. It's true some tracks don't sound good because the KZ ZS7 emphatizes the bass on those and on the ZS10 Pro it seems they don't have low end, but on other tracks, the ZS10 Pro shines and reproduces the bass really good.

I'm still waiting for the AS16, which should be delivered any day now.

As far as the aptX HD Bluetooth Cable, they just shipped me a new one over the night. As usual, it will take 3 or 4 weeks to arrive here.


----------



## peskypesky

loomisjohnson said:


> just posted my take on the kz zs10 pro on the audioreviews.org blog---i personally prefer the warmer tonality and tighter bass of the zs7, but they're both at the top of the kz pyramid


How do the ZS10 compare to the ZS5?


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I heard the Moondrop Crescent sounds 70% like the Kanas Pro and it's $30USD.



I heard 80%   LOL... how do people measure these things... what if it is really 76%... or 88%!   The crescent is very nice though.  If you want to know more just read the Moondrop thread.


----------



## khighly

mbwilson111 said:


> I heard 80%   LOL... how do people measure these things... what if it is really 76%... or 88%!   The crescent is very nice though.  If you want to know more just read the Moondrop thread.


I heard 62.711%. I wouldn't trust it.


----------



## moisespr123

The AS16 just arrived. The IEM is a bit flat and less musical than the ZS10 Pro. Let's see if they improve in a few hours.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> I heard 80%   LOL... how do people measure these things... what if it is really 76%... or 88%!   The crescent is very nice though.  If you want to know more just read the Moondrop thread.


The person that said the Crescent was 70% of the Kanas Pro, owned both. Of course even then his percentage is subjective.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

hakuzen said:


> i guess so. thanks for the info.
> so bqeyz and qdc use same polarity, opposite to kz.


[Puts stupid face on] What does that mean?


----------



## Veyska

Dang.  Y'all weren't kidding when you said the ZS3E/etc were basically musical earplugs.  Had a bit of leftover eBay bucks and decided to pick one up because I was bored and curious.  Settled on ZS3E because the ZS4 had BAs and I wanted to mess around with all-DD, and *E because it was clearly superior (and came in red).    Haven't actually spent much time listening to them but they seem perfectly serviceable given they're mostly going to be used *as* musical earplugs (got Bose QC30, but ANC while not unpleasantly so is a bit white-noise-hissy plus the right silicone earpiece falls out if I move too much (nothing wrong with the tip, my right ear's just annoying like that) and oh yeah also MSRPs for ~250$ or something like that and the odds of me picking up a Very Good pair for ~90$ again are hahano <-< ).  I'll have to stuff them in a pocket next time I go flying, I'm curious how well they'll stack up against the Bose...  Doubt they'll win, mind you, but definitely curious how close they can come.

Disconcertingly light, but my other IEMs also involve nonzero amounts of metal (ZSN/C10/****) so in hindsight it's not really that surprising.


----------



## Slater

Veyska said:


> Dang.  Y'all weren't kidding when you said the ZS3E/etc were basically musical earplugs.  Had a bit of leftover eBay bucks and decided to pick one up because I was bored and curious.  Settled on ZS3E because the ZS4 had BAs and I wanted to mess around with all-DD, and *E because it was clearly superior (and came in red).    Haven't actually spent much time listening to them but they seem perfectly serviceable given they're mostly going to be used *as* musical earplugs (got Bose QC30, but ANC while not unpleasantly so is a bit white-noise-hissy plus the right silicone earpiece falls out if I move too much (nothing wrong with the tip, my right ear's just annoying like that) and oh yeah also MSRPs for ~250$ or something like that and the odds of me picking up a Very Good pair for ~90$ again are hahano <-< ).  I'll have to stuff them in a pocket next time I go flying, I'm curious how well they'll stack up against the Bose...  Doubt they'll win, mind you, but definitely curious how close they can come.
> 
> Disconcertingly light, but my other IEMs also involve nonzero amounts of metal (ZSN/C10/****) so in hindsight it's not really that surprising.



Glad you like them!

I plan on picking up a pair next time I see it cheap. Maybe during 11.11.

I want to use them as “musical earplugs“ too, and I want something with no BA so it can take lots of sweat and the occasional rainstorm.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Glad you like them!
> 
> I plan on picking up a pair next time I see it cheap. Maybe during 11.11.
> 
> I want to use them as “musical earplugs“ too, and I want something with no BA so it can take lots of sweat and the occasional rainstorm.



I use my it01 for that job lol


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Slater said:


> Glad you like them!
> 
> I plan on picking up a pair next time I see it cheap. Maybe during 11.11.
> 
> I want to use them as “musical earplugs“ too, and I want something with no BA so it can take lots of sweat and the occasional rainstorm.



C800 is a great alternative to Zs3e.


----------



## khighly

ZSN Pro is very similar to ZS10 Pro. ZSN Pro has a V in upper mids/highs. They might as well be the 2 driver ZS10, then ZS10 Pro should be the 5 driver version. Why even keep current ZS10, or ZSN? Why have ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10, ZS10 Pro?

Went back to the original ZSN, too much missing from that sound signature. ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro are a steal.


----------



## voicemaster

khighly said:


> ZSN Pro is very similar to ZS10 Pro. ZSN Pro has a V in upper mids/highs. They might as well be the 2 driver ZS10, then ZS10 Pro should be the 5 driver version. Why even keep current ZS10, or ZSN? Why have ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10, ZS10 Pro?
> 
> Went back to the original ZSN, too much missing from that sound signature. ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro are a steal.



Actually I find that the zsn pro is more airy and sound more spacious than zs10 pro, but zs10 pro wins in every other categories (bass, separation, smoothness and treble). They sound pretty similar tho.


----------



## LinCeX

What KZ model is good for gaming?. I'm currently using a Xiaomi Piston v3, so my standards are not very high. It stills work well after all this years but got tired of its very bad microphonics.


----------



## voicemaster

LinCeX said:


> What KZ model is good for gaming?. I'm currently using a Xiaomi Piston v3, so my standards are not very high. It stills work well after all this years but got tired of its very bad microphonics.



ZSN pro (cheapest), ZS10 pro and ZS7. Don't know about the other KZ as I don't have it, but from what I have those three are the best KZ I've had so far.


----------



## nxnje

voicemaster said:


> ZSN pro (cheapest), ZS10 pro and ZS7. Don't know about the other KZ as I don't have it, but from what I have those three are the best KZ I've had so far.



In my experience, even if they have big soundstages, zs7, zs6 and so on are not good for gaming (at least in my case, but if someone has good times with them then it's just me). I don't know why but i cannot actually play r6s with them and be good locating enemies in the buildings.
The ones i used most (to play games, moreover fps ones) are:
- HIFIHEAR F30 (very good in r6s, just average for pubg)
- CCA C10 (decent in r6s, awesome for pubg)
- many people uses the old ZS10, but i do not have it so i cannot provide a feedback

ZSN PRO and ZS10 PRO aren't good for gaming in my experience, dunno why but pinpointing is very difficult, especially on the ZSN PRO.


----------



## voicemaster (May 23, 2019)

nxnje said:


> In my experience, even if they have big soundstages, zs7, zs6 and so on are not good for gaming (at least in my case, but if someone has good times with them then it's just me). I don't know why but i cannot actually play r6s with them and be good locating enemies in the buildings.
> The ones i used most (to play games, moreover fps ones) are:
> - HIFIHEAR F30 (very good in r6s, just average for pubg)
> - CCA C10 (decent in r6s, awesome for pubg)
> ...



ZS10 pro is better from ZS7 and ZSN pro in positioning, but all KZ has the same problem when projecting the sound to the front. Side and back is fine.
The best soundstage and positioning that I've ever experienced with IEM is the Zero Audio Duoza.


----------



## voicemaster

i am using this track for testing positioning of IEM and headphone.


----------



## nxnje

voicemaster said:


> ZS10 pro is better from ZS7 and ZSN pro in positioning, but all KZ has the same problem when projecting the sound to the front. Side and back is fine.
> The best soundstage and positioning that I've ever experienced with IEM is the Zero Audio Duoza.



The real problem i have (in rainbow six siege at least) is locating enemy at different heights. 
If i'm at the second floor and there's an enemy on the third floor just above me, i can easily be confused as the sound is not clearly saying it's up. It sounds like the height is different but cannot know if up or down. I don't know if i explained it well.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Actually I find that the zsn pro is more airy and sound more spacious than zs10 pro, but zs10 pro wins in every other categories (bass, separation, smoothness and treble). They sound pretty similar tho.



ZSN pro sounds more airy because of that 16khz boost (boosted more than ZS10 pro), just like tanchjim oxygen


----------



## archdawg (May 23, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> [Puts stupid face on] What does that mean?


Just the way the two connectors (GND/+) are positioned on the shell. On KZ IEMs the GND contact sits closer to the center of the shell, on IEMs from some other companies like BQYEZ, R...n..., it's exactly the opposite. Some folks care about it ('absolute phase'), others don't give a damn as long as the two sides (L-R) are connected equally - in phase.


----------



## DeltaAudio

I recently received the zsn and zsn pro, they sound nearly identical. Just popped open the zsn's to peek inside. 


 plan on comparing them to the pros driver


----------



## katatonicone1

I've been using the silver KZ upgrade cable for a year or so with ZS6, then I've noticed the silver cable actually sounds odd compared to the stock cable and also same tracks I played in other headphones. I think the mids are horribly off. Now with ZS7 I have the same feeling and I get much better results with the stock cable. What's your music authenticity feeling with the silver cable?


----------



## archdawg

katatonicone1 said:


> I've been using the silver KZ upgrade cable for a year or so with ZS6, then I've noticed the silver cable actually sounds odd compared to the stock cable and also same tracks I played in other headphones. I think the mids are horribly off. Now with ZS7 I have the same feeling and I get much better results with the stock cable. What's your music authenticity feeling with the silver cable?


If you're talking about the flat, braided 8-core cable according to Hakuzen's measurements they have a relatively high resistance and depending on your IEM and source this can easily throw things out of balance.


----------



## hakuzen

katatonicone1 said:


> I've been using the silver KZ upgrade cable for a year or so with ZS6, then I've noticed the silver cable actually sounds odd compared to the stock cable and also same tracks I played in other headphones. I think the mids are horribly off. Now with ZS7 I have the same feeling and I get much better results with the stock cable. What's your music authenticity feeling with the silver cable?





archdawg said:


> If you're talking about the flat, braided 8-core cable according to Hakuzen's measurements they have a relatively high resistance and depending on your IEM and source this can easily throw things out of balance.


check you are not connecting the flat cable out of phase (+ and GND pins interchanged in one side).
like @archdawg has explained, the difference of resistance between stock and flat cable can justify tonal alteration in upper mids and highs, changing overall tone. however, sound with the flat cable should be closer to iem real sound. so you should check for anomalies in your fat cable: pins and jack (clean them), extreme oxidation (this cable is known to get a green/cyan patina due to oxidation; not a sound issue in theory, but wire could be degraded too much now).


----------



## katatonicone1

The cable changed its color all right. Can't see anything else being the problem. I wonder whether the sound was off all along and I just adjusted to the sound. It was my daily set (silver cable and ZS6) for a long time, then one of the nosils fell of when switching the tips so I switched to BA10 and the new silver-copper upgrade cable. I once connected the silver cable to the BA10s and noticed the odd sound but blamed it on different way of how pins are curved (different pin types). 

On other note. ZS7 in my opinion has good cable apart from the hooks which I dislike. Is there any point in getting other cable type? What are the more premium cables have you been using with ZS7? Any balanced cables in particular?


----------



## nxnje

I do not find the ZSN Pro more spacious than the ZS10 Pro.
I think ZSN Pro is just influencing the sound perception because if its upper range boost (artificial spatial impressions so).
I prefer the more conservative treble in the ZS10 Pro which adds more of a "closed" but well rounded space.


----------



## Slater

katatonicone1 said:


> I've been using the silver KZ upgrade cable for a year or so with ZS6, then I've noticed the silver cable actually sounds odd compared to the stock cable and also same tracks I played in other headphones. I think the mids are horribly off. Now with ZS7 I have the same feeling and I get much better results with the stock cable. What's your music authenticity feeling with the silver cable?



Can you post a photo of which one you have, including the color of the plastic rings between the terminals of the 3.5mm plug? KZ has made about 6-8 different silver cables (not including the A/B/C ends). They’re all slightly different.


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> If you're talking about the flat, braided 8-core cable according to Hakuzen's measurements they have a relatively high resistance and depending on your IEM and source this can easily throw things out of balance.



That cable is ~0.6ohms, which is quite average for KZs. There’s a bunch of KZ cables that are much higher, and a scant few that are much lower.


----------



## katatonicone1

Slater said:


> Can you post a photo of which one you have, including the color of the plastic rings between the terminals of the 3.5mm plug? KZ has made about 6-8 different silver cables (not including the A/B/C ends). They’re all slightly different.






That's from Ebay when I ordered the cable last year. Can take an exact photo when I'm back home.


----------



## Caipirina

Grrrrr. Was just tracking my AS16 delivery and found this very unfortunate message:

 

So much for the nice discount I got (plus the extra speedy DHL delivery), let's see what the rules of the game are this year ...  (like 3 years ago, there was a 30€ fee JUST for the inspection and THEN they added import tax)


----------



## katatonicone1

Caipirina said:


> So much for the nice discount I got (plus the extra speedy DHL delivery), let's see what the rules of the game are this year ...  (like 3 years ago, there was a 30€ fee JUST for the inspection and THEN they added import tax)



Too bad. I've been ordering from AliExpress for last year and a half and never got any kind of additional payments with the AE Standard Shipping or Chinease Post. Once I ordered via free DHL Express and *bam* there was additional 12 Euro I had to cover.


----------



## reddistic

Caipirina said:


> Grrrrr. Was just tracking my AS16 delivery and found this very unfortunate message:
> 
> 
> 
> So much for the nice discount I got (plus the extra speedy DHL delivery), let's see what the rules of the game are this year ...  (like 3 years ago, there was a 30€ fee JUST for the inspection and THEN they added import tax)



Which country is that? 
Also have new laws, we have to pay %58 tax for any overseas order unless its a book


----------



## Slater

katatonicone1 said:


> That's from Ebay when I ordered the cable last year. Can take an exact photo when I'm back home.



No need. That’s the flat-braided 8-wire cable. I have a bunch of them.

It’s a decent cable IMO. Have you checked to make sure nothing is wired out of phase? Also, check the resistance of the cable if possible, to make sure 1 or more terminal isn’t drastically different than the others.


----------



## katatonicone1

Slater said:


> No need. That’s the flat-braided 8-wire cable. I have a bunch of them.
> 
> It’s a decent cable IMO. Have you checked to make sure nothing is wired out of phase? Also, check the resistance of the cable if possible, to make sure 1 or more terminal isn’t drastically different than the others.


Thank you. I will make the tests and post the findings later.


----------



## Slater

reddistic said:


> Which country is that?
> Also have new laws, we have to pay %58 tax for any overseas order unless its a book



Holy moly that’s brutal.

I see a huge rise in books being hollowed out to make a storage cavity.


----------



## auraldesire95

I’m can’t wait to use my KZ ZST earphones! At 04:51AM (GMT) today they were received at “Atherstone Intl RDC”, so hopefully it won’t be long until I receive them!


----------



## moisespr123

AS16 unboxing with the upgrade silver cable


----------



## archdawg

Slater said:


> That cable is ~0.6ohms, which is quite average for KZs. There’s a bunch of KZ cables that are much higher, and a scant few that are much lower.


I actually mentioned the 'relatively high resistance' of that cable in relation to something like an average from @hakuzen's list of upgrade cables which lies closer to ~0.2/0.25 Ohm or thereabouts (?) ... sorry for not making my point clear enough. 
My main point though was that compared to that 'average' the braided KZ cable sports more than double the resistance and depending on the other impedances in the signal chain (source, IEM) and other factors (driver configuration and sensitivities, crossover circuits, ...) this will have a more or less pronounced effect on i.e. frequency responses and phase relations.


----------



## Slater (May 23, 2019)

archdawg said:


> I actually mentioned the 'relatively high resistance' of that cable in relation to something like an average from @hakuzen's list of upgrade cables which lies closer to ~0.2/0.25 Ohm or thereabouts (?) ... sorry for not making my point clear enough.
> My main point though was that compared to that 'average' the braided KZ cable sports more than double the resistance and depending on the other impedances in the signal chain (source, IEM) and other factors (driver configuration and sensitivities, crossover circuits, ...) this will have a more or less pronounced effect on i.e. frequency responses and phase relations.



While @hakuzen’s list is ‘budget’ cables, be aware that the average is _not_ 0.2ohms.

That value is closer to the absolute _extreme_ best in his list. And you have to buy ~$60-$90 cables to hit those kinds of low resistance values.

75% of the cables in his list are in the ~$35-$90 range. While it’s an excellent and valuable reference, the budget cables in the $7-$25 range are a much different story.

Expect 95% of ‘budget’ upgrade cables (>$25) to run 0.4-0.8ohms, including pretty much all of the cables in his ‘KZ’ list (KZ, TRN, etc). There’s a *very* small % of budget cables (>$25) that even hit close to 0.3ohms. Not a single one in that price range hits 0.25 or 0.2ohms last time I checked his list.

Since most stock KZ cables are 0.7-1.1 ohms, their ‘upgrade’ cables (0.4-0.6 ohms) are indeed actually an upgrade over their stock cables.

And as you pointed out, they will affect the sound. *How* the sound is affected depends on the impedance curve of the drivers (among some other factors to a lesser extent). You don’t _always_ want a super lower impedance cable, as sometimes higher impedance can actually affect the sound in a more positive way (as evidenced by the ZS5 v1 and ZS6).


----------



## Caipirina

reddistic said:


> Which country is that?
> Also have new laws, we have to pay %58 tax for any overseas order unless its a book



Mine is Germany (for 6 weeks in summer  ... and you are in Turkey? 58% is rough! 

My experience has been so far that most of all AliX stuff slips under the 20€ 'we don't care' rule, but I guess when it is DHL they guess it is extra valuable ... 
I think last summer I did not have any problems .. so, really no idea what to expect this time, we shall see ... maybe they x-ray it and confirm that it is 'just' a pair of 'cheap' earbuds   and let it go through


----------



## Caipirina

moisespr123 said:


> AS16 unboxing with the upgrade silver cable




Very curious to hear how you like them on the BT20, if there is any hiss, noise, and how comfort is (they DO look quite a bit bigger)


----------



## Podster

auraldesire95 said:


> I’m can’t wait to use my KZ ZST earphones! At 04:51AM (GMT) today they were received at “Atherstone Intl RDC”, so hopefully it won’t be long until I receive them!



Hope you enjoy them, until they released the ZS6 the ZST was my fave however my ZS6 has now been edged out by my BA10's! How's that song go again, "going around and around and around"LOL

So did you go Carbon's or Colorful's?


----------



## voicemaster

nxnje said:


> I do not find the ZSN Pro more spacious than the ZS10 Pro.
> I think ZSN Pro is just influencing the sound perception because if its upper range boost (artificial spatial impressions so).
> I prefer the more conservative treble in the ZS10 Pro which adds more of a "closed" but well rounded space.



Yes it is influencing the sound perception thus it is sounds more airy. It doesn't necessarily has more spatial sound than ZS10 pro, but comparing the two, you will notice it.


----------



## auraldesire95

Podster said:


> Hope you enjoy them, until they released the ZS6 the ZST was my fave however my ZS6 has now been edged out by my BA10's! How's that song go again, "going around and around and around"LOL
> 
> So did you go Carbon's or Colorful's?


I hope so too! I purchased the colourful ZST Pro.


----------



## Podster

auraldesire95 said:


> I hope so too! I purchased the colourful ZST Pro.



Nice, guess I missed the Pro version! Not even sure what that upgrade may have been from the originals


----------



## katatonicone1 (May 23, 2019)

archdawg said:


> If you're talking about the flat, braided 8-core cable according to Hakuzen's measurements they have a relatively high resistance and depending on your IEM and source this can easily throw things out of balance.





hakuzen said:


> check you are not connecting the flat cable out of phase (+ and GND pins interchanged in one side).
> like @archdawg has explained, the difference of resistance between stock and flat cable can justify tonal alteration in upper mids and highs, changing overall tone. however, sound with the flat cable should be closer to iem real sound. so you should check for anomalies in your fat cable: pins and jack (clean them), extreme oxidation (this cable is known to get a green/cyan patina due to oxidation; not a sound issue in theory, but wire could be degraded too much now).





Slater said:


> No need. That’s the flat-braided 8-wire cable. I have a bunch of them.
> 
> It’s a decent cable IMO. Have you checked to make sure nothing is wired out of phase? Also, check the resistance of the cable if possible, to make sure 1 or more terminal isn’t drastically different than the others.



So I checked the cable and this is so embarassing...

I have had one earphone connected the wrong way... <facepalm>

And even worse, I have had it for a year, enjoying the sound... So dumb of me.

You know those little manuals that KZ has for IEMs which tell you how to properly put them over the ear... I wish they were showing the proper connection of the pin ports as per Slater's little instruction. I suppose when I got the cable one of the earhooks was bent the wrong way. I did not know that it could be connected the wrong way.

I have learnt a lot today. Thank you guys. Now I am enjoying ZS7 with the silver cable properly.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 23, 2019)

Podster said:


> Hope you enjoy them, until they released the ZS6 the ZST was my fave however my ZS6 has now been edged out by my BA10's! How's that song go again, "going around and around and around"LOL
> 
> So did you go Carbon's or Colorful's?



Love my BA10's. 

I still think it's a shame that those with small ears (and maybe even medium sized ears) will never be able to enjoy these.

Chi-Fi has almost irreversibly spoiled us. When the listed price of $90 was announced I thought KZ had gone overboard. I don't think so anymore. If you can wear the BA10 comfortably the BA10 is priced accurately. Probably one of the cleanest sounding KZ's on the market (haven't heard C16 or AS16).

All I have to do is cue up a few great tracks and I am reminded of how capable the BA10 is. 









Spoiler



XXX


----------



## auraldesire95

Podster said:


> Nice, guess I missed the Pro version! Not even sure what that upgrade may have been from the originals


I assume they’re better than the standard, that’s my theory. I’ll just have to wait to find out what they sound like, aye? I’ll research as well before I receive them.


----------



## archdawg

Slater said:


> 75% of the cables in his list are in the ~$35-$90 range. While it’s an excellent and valuable reference, the budget cables in the $7-$25 range are a much different story.
> 
> Expect 95% of ‘budget’ upgrade cables (>$25) to run 0.4-0.8ohms, including pretty much all of the cables in his ‘KZ’ list (KZ, TRN, etc). There’s a *very* small % of budget cables (>$25) that even hit close to 0.3ohms. Not a single one in that price range hits 0.25 or 0.2ohms last time I checked his list.



Ha! I took another look at @hakuzen's _budget_ list and stand corrected. I got lost in his deluxe cable department before, lol.


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Love my BA10's.
> 
> I still think it's a shame that those with small ears (and maybe even medium sized ears) will never be able to enjoy these.
> 
> ...




Same here Doc, matter a fact I'm listening to my new Benjie X6 on them right now and they sound crazy good You are also right about where Chee-Fee is today


----------



## paulwasabii (May 23, 2019)

DeltaAudio said:


> I recently received the zsn and zsn pro, they sound nearly identical. Just popped open the zsn's to peek inside.  plan on comparing them to the pros driver



I received them both and don't think they sound identical at all.  Maybe my ZSN need some more break in time, but out of the box, the Pro sound very good. The ZSN were not as spacious or warm sounding to me.  I am guessing music choice has a lot to do with it but I will have to go back for another listen.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Nice, guess I missed the Pro version! Not even sure what that upgrade may have been from the originals





auraldesire95 said:


> I assume they’re better than the standard, that’s my theory. I’ll just have to wait to find out what they sound like, aye? I’ll research as well before I receive them.



The ZST Pro version (also called colorful) was just a name given by sellers. It is 100% identical to the carbon version. Literally, the only difference is the shell color. The drivers are the same, the tuning is the same, the sound is the same.

There seems to be some renewed interest/confusion in the ZST ‘Pro’ recently because of numerous other ‘Pro’ KZ models out. But I assure you  it’s the same old ZST KZ has been selling for years now.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have small ears and the BA10 is no problem to me


----------



## Podster (May 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> The ZST Pro version (also called colorful) was just a name given by sellers. It is 100% identical to the carbon version. Literally, the only difference is the shell color. The drivers are the same, the tuning is the same, the sound is the same.
> 
> There seems to be some renewed interest/confusion in the ZST ‘Pro’ recently because of numerous other ‘Pro’ KZ models out. But I assure you  it’s the same old ZST KZ has been selling for years now.



Yeah now that you mention it I remember the Colorful was called the Pro version but I also remember now some thought it sounded a little better and there were pages spent on that back in the day I'm with you, both mine sound the exact same

Yes Sir @panda , my issue was the shell shape which made the nozzle just a hair short for seal on me but I did the old tip core nozzle washer to get just a little more extension out of my tips and wallah (See Happy Camper emoticon here)


----------



## Slater (May 23, 2019)

Podster said:


> Yeah now that you mention it I remember the Colorful was called the Pro version but I also remember now some thought it sounded a little better and there were pages spent on that back in the day I'm with you, both mine sound the exact same



Haha, yes - pages and pages of discussion was spent on that lol

Now, what IS possible is that KZ is using newer/different drivers in the most current production runs ZSTs.

We already know they’ve quietly updated the ED9 with a slightly different/better driver. The case seems to be the same with ZS6. And we also know they’ve refined the good old Bellsing 30095, which has improvements over the previous 30095 generation. And KZ uses the 30095 in almost every one of their IEMs (ZST included).

So it is possible that ZSTs bought today sound slightly different/better than the original ones. My point was there is no true ‘Pro’ ZST. *The ZSN IS the upgraded ZST, according to KZ themselves.* That’s why I see no reason to get a ZST nowadays (other than nostalgia or collectibility), when there’s truly overhauled versions of the ZST (ZSN and ZSN Pro) that is far superior to the ZST.


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> Ha! I took another look at @hakuzen's _budget_ list and stand corrected. I got lost in his deluxe cable department before, lol.



Haha, yeah like you said @hakuzen’s database of ‘budget’ cables ended being a lot more deluxe $$ than what the average person (myself included) might consider ‘budget’.

His thread/database originally started out as a budget alternative to the folks spending $hundreds or more on cables. So from that aspect it _was_ a budget cable database. It just quickly spiraled from $7 KZ cables to $70-$100 cables.

And considering many of us were looking for a ‘budget’ cable for a ‘budget’ $15 KZ IEM, $70 is ludicrous.

That’s why I kinda view his database as 2 different tiers of ‘budget cables’. One <$25-$30ish cables and the other in the >$40-$100ish range. 

Once I did that, it was much easier for me to see the differences, and locate an appropriate upgraded ‘budget’ cable I was willing to buy


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Haha, yes - pages and pages of discussion was spent on that lol
> 
> Now, what IS possible is that KZ is using newer/different drivers in the most current production runs ZSTs.
> 
> ...



Well once again Pod's old saying of "We all hear them differently" rears it's pretty head because I still prefer my old carbon ZST's to my ZSN V1 Of course it's also well documented that Pod's the original "High Range Drifter" too The fact that KZ may be putting the new drivers in all their latest models of pre-existing iem's sucks because I'm sure not going to try and sell ones that may be considered inferior now because they have old 30095's in them Now with that said maybe I should put all my old ones on the gifting list (4 ZS6's, 2 ZST's, 5 ED9's and all the others with original 30095's in them) and replace the ones I like that now have upgraded drivers in them since most are still inexpensive Chi-Fi


----------



## archdawg

Picked up the grey silver 8-core Kinboofi from the post office today. Back home I hooked it up to my older ZS6 and yeah ... I like what I hear ... a lot!,  just need more time to go through some more test tracks and compare it to some other cables. On top of that, that cable looks pretty precious on the 6es, another 16 Eurons well spent.


----------



## auraldesire95

Slater said:


> The ZST Pro version (also called colorful) was just a name given by sellers. It is 100% identical to the carbon version. Literally, the only difference is the shell color. The drivers are the same, the tuning is the same, the sound is the same.
> 
> There seems to be some renewed interest/confusion in the ZST ‘Pro’ recently because of numerous other ‘Pro’ KZ models out. But I assure you  it’s the same old ZST KZ has been selling for years now.


I knew the difference between the two colours was only superficial. I wasn’t aware that the difference between the two ZST models were zero.


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> Picked up the grey silver 8-core Kinboofi from the post office today. Back home I hooked it up to my older ZS6 and yeah ... I like what I hear ... a lot!,  just need more time to go through some more test tracks and compare it to some other cables. On top of that, that cable looks pretty precious on the 6es, another 16 Eurons well spent.



I have that too. It’s a wicked cable!


----------



## Caipirina

Podster said:


> Same here Doc, matter a fact I'm listening to my new Benjie X6 on them right now and they sound crazy good You are also right about where Chee-Fee is today



How did I miss that new Benjie? I know I was doing a Benjie search a few days ago ... 

and I always thought it was "Cheye-Feye" (as in "eye" ... or me myself & "I"     )


----------



## DeltaAudio

As I said I would I popped open the zsn pros (with some effort though, as they were glued shut unlike the zsn's shell) and wow look at the size of that magnet ring! These babies were in fact so strong the earphones tend to stick to each other if left dangling. The images below show the pros in purple and the non-pros in black. The pros also seem to have a mystery glue blob covering what looks to be some terminals.


----------



## Podster (May 23, 2019)

archdawg said:


> Picked up the grey silver 8-core Kinboofi from the post office today. Back home I hooked it up to my older ZS6 and yeah ... I like what I hear ... a lot!,  just need more time to go through some more test tracks and compare it to some other cables. On top of that, that cable looks pretty precious on the 6es, another 16 Eurons well spent.



I just love sweet pairings Here's sweet silver 16 core on my DMG's

@Caipirina The X6 sounds really sweet maybe even better than the S5, also a great video player as in this As-DM-Gardian rig





@DeltaAudio , much nicer solder work in that pro as well


----------



## StSe (May 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> Haha, yes - pages and pages of discussion was spent on that lol
> 
> Now, what IS possible is that KZ is using newer/different drivers in the most current production runs ZSTs.
> 
> ...


Just for completeness, KZ nowadays is calling the colorful version _ZST Pro

Edit: tried to upload a picture of the box, but I'm obviously too fresh here ..._


----------



## loomisjohnson

Slater said:


> Haha, yes - pages and pages of discussion was spent on that lol
> 
> Now, what IS possible is that KZ is using newer/different drivers in the most current production runs ZSTs.
> 
> ...


truth be told, the zst was never that good--its inital hype was probably more a function of it being the first kz hybrid. the zsn, otoh, is well tuned for such a cheap piece and i suspect it'll still be worth hearing in a couple of years


----------



## DocHoliday (May 23, 2019)

Podster said:


> Well once again Pod's old saying of "We all hear them differently" rears it's pretty head because I still prefer my old carbon ZST's to my ZSN V1 Of course it's also well documented that Pod's the original "High Range Drifter" too The fact that KZ may be putting the new drivers in all their latest models of pre-existing iem's sucks because I'm sure not going to try and sell ones that may be considered inferior now because they have old 30095's in them Now with that said maybe I should put all my old ones on the gifting list (4 ZS6's, 2 ZST's, 5 ED9's and all the others with original 30095's in them) and replace the ones I like that now have upgraded drivers in them since most are still inexpensive Chi-Fi



Actually, I'll buy all four ZS6's and three ED9's from you, Pod  (if you go that route).

Original ZS6 is still one of my all-time favorites.


----------



## bhazard

ZS10 Pro vs CCA C16?


----------



## Podster

DocHoliday said:


> Actually, I'll buy all four ZS6's and three ED9's from you, Pod  (if you go that route).
> 
> Original ZS6 is still one of my all-time favorites.



You’ll be first on the list Doc

Ouch @loomisjohnson, that hurts. Guess old Pod can’t hear very well afterall


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Caipirina said:


> How did I miss that new Benjie? I know I was doing a Benjie search a few days ago ...
> 
> and I always thought it was "Cheye-Feye" (as in "eye" ... or me myself & "I"     )


I say Chi Fi same as WiFi, but I think French people say Wee Fee so maybe they and others also say Chee Fee? LOL Either way is correct I suppose.


----------



## Slater (May 23, 2019)

DeltaAudio said:


> As I said I would I popped open the zsn pros (with some effort though, as they were glued shut unlike the zsn's shell) and wow look at the size of that magnet ring! These babies were in fact so strong the earphones tend to stick to each other if left dangling. The images below show the pros in purple and the non-pros in black. The pros also seem to have a mystery glue blob covering what looks to be some terminals.



The ‘mystery glue blob’ is usually the voice coil wires, which are extremely thin and fragile and need to be protected at all costs (hence why they’re always protected by a blob of epoxy or potting compound etc).


----------



## Slater (May 23, 2019)

bhazard said:


> ZS10 Pro vs CCA C16?



For a more fun and energetic listen, I much prefer the ZS10 Pro. The C16 is just too boring for me, unless I EQ it. The ZS10 is also much more comfortable for me.

I’m not saying the C16 is bad, only that I enjoy the ZS10 more. I can use the ZS10 all day every day, for every genre I listen to, with no EQ. I only like the C16 in small doses, with certain sources, and certain music, and only with EQ.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Podster said:


> You’ll be first on the list Doc
> 
> Ouch @loomisjohnson, that hurts. Guess old Pod can’t hear very well afterall


You and me both, son


----------



## CYoung234

DocHoliday said:


> Love my BA10's.
> 
> I still think it's a shame that those with small ears (and maybe even medium sized ears) will never be able to enjoy these.
> 
> ...




I think I saw a poster quite a while ago compare the BA10 to the C16 very favorably. I have a C16 on the way, but the BA10 has always intrigued me...


----------



## PhonoPhi

CYoung234 said:


> I think I saw a poster quite a while ago compare the BA10 to the C16 very favorably. I have a C16 on the way, but the BA10 has always intrigued me...


In my opinion, CA16 largely  supersedes BA10.
More developed highs and a bit more bass with two BAs and definitely better resolution for CA16.
I learned to fit BA10 reasonably, and not even the size but those sharp corners are harsh for my ears to enjoy comfortably.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi (May 23, 2019)

DeltaAudio said:


> As I said I would I popped open the zsn pros (with some effort though, as they were glued shut unlike the zsn's shell) and wow look at the size of that magnet ring! These babies were in fact so strong the earphones tend to stick to each other if left dangling. The images below show the pros in purple and the non-pros in black. The pros also seem to have a mystery glue blob covering what looks to be some terminals.



Are those ear ?


----------



## eclein

Is the new KZ 16BA’s a pass for most of you folks? I mess up the model #s KZ AS16 I think it is. I’m not seeing much “Oh my god these sound excellent “ or anything super positive, are you folks?

Off topic but I’m picking up some T3’s from a fellow member next month...then I’m back on hold. I have so many excellent sounding choices its getting out of hand...lol. lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

eclein said:


> Is the new KZ 16BA’s a pass for most of you folks? I mess up the model #s KZ AS16 I think it is. I’m not seeing much “Oh my god these sound excellent “ or anything super positive, are you folks?
> 
> Off topic but I’m picking up some T3’s from a fellow member next month...then I’m back on hold. I have so many excellent sounding choices its getting out of hand...lol. lol



I'm giving them a pass. Technically very impressive, love the build quality, but way too bright and bass light. If you enjoy lots of treble and an analytic signature, by all means give them a go. Not a very versatile tune.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 23, 2019)

I'm using a Walnut V2S with OPA1622 right now and the Stock Black ZSN. The ZSN sure sounds super bright and lively and acoustic type tracks sound the best. The sound quality almost seems artificial because of how bright it is compared to other KZ's but it still sounds very good with the right recording and probably isn't artificial at all but more natural sounding.  The ZSN sure presents a full experience. However, my ZS7's fit better than my ZSN's.

My ZS6 is arriving in a couple weeks... I guess I'll see if it's as bright or brighter than the ZSN?


----------



## hakuzen (May 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> While @hakuzen’s list is ‘budget’ cables, be aware that the average is _not_ 0.2ohms.
> 
> That value is closer to the absolute _extreme_ best in his list. And you have to buy ~$60-$90 cables to hit those kinds of low resistance values.
> 
> ...





archdawg said:


> Ha! I took another look at @hakuzen's _budget_ list and stand corrected. I got lost in his deluxe cable department before, lol.





Slater said:


> Haha, yeah like you said @hakuzen’s database of ‘budget’ cables ended being a lot more deluxe $$ than what the average person (myself included) might consider ‘budget’.
> 
> His thread/database originally started out as a budget alternative to the folks spending $hundreds or more on cables. So from that aspect it _was_ a budget cable database. It just quickly spiraled from $7 KZ cables to $70-$100 cables.
> 
> ...



that's why i created two lists time ago, and i keep maintaining both; links to the other list included in each one.
*DC resistance of some cables for KZs (below $40, approx.)*
*DC resistance of some cables (below 400mΩ, average)*
do you notice the difference?
first one is only for budget cables (most below $25), located at KZ thread.
second one includes cables which have low resistance (<400mΩ, including budget or "deluxe" cables) or remarkable quality, located in cables thread (it's not a budget cables thread, it's a great value cables thread).

as you can notice, there are many more cables <$25 below 250mΩ than what you say, and they are included in both lists. examples: cables 065 066 (jcally), 053 (nicehck), 052, nicehck 060 062 and 063,  055, 070, 057 (nicehck), in all their variants and colors. price is below $25 during sales.

you should visit both lists periodically...


----------



## hakuzen (May 23, 2019)

i think kz/cca have done a nice movement adding more balanced, towards neutral, iems to their stock (KZ AS16, and CCA C16).
can enjoy typical "fun" signatures when commuting. tons of kzs fit the bill for this.
but when i spend >$100 in an iem, i usually prefer it tends to reference monitor signatures.
it's refreshing to see different signatures in the brand. got a bit tired of same bassy v-shaped signature of most previous kz/cca.
more signatures, more potential buyers.

after reading impressions and reviews of last models, i'll aim to CCA C16 probably when at sales.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 24, 2019)

How do you guys like that new gold KZ Cable? One online reviewer says it comes with the ZSN Pro?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005875289.html


----------



## hakuzen

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you guys like that new gold KZ Cable? One online reviews says it comes with the ZSN Pro?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005875289.html


ordered it, but still in transit


----------



## HAMS

Any as06 and zs10pro comparison? I prefer BA's bass sound, but does as06 sound like BA at all especially like those single or dual driver BA.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 24, 2019)

I'm going to start flirting with other brands. I hope you guys do too so we can eventually have a better KZ thread when we compare those other iems.

Wishlist: Moondrop Crescent and BQEYZ KB100.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> [..]
> Expect 95% of ‘budget’ upgrade cables (>$25) to run 0.4-0.8ohms, including pretty much all of the cables in his ‘KZ’ list (KZ, TRN, etc). There’s a *very* small % of budget cables (>$25) that even hit close to 0.3ohms. Not a single one in that price range hits 0.25 or 0.2ohms last time I checked his list.
> [..]





hakuzen said:


> that's why i created two lists time ago, and i keep maintaining both; links to the other list included in each one.
> *DC resistance of some cables for KZs (below $40, approx.)*
> *DC resistance of some cables (below 400mΩ, average)*
> do you notice the difference?
> ...


Yup, I was also about to point that out, for example, this 17$ 0.11Ohm listing from the great PRC:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32916162030.html
(053) hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,slim plugs,M).....................110..avg (115 mmcx)..[27]..many measured


----------



## Ultrainferno

Here's how Nano feels about the KS AS16: https://www.headfonia.com/kz-as16-review/


----------



## 1clearhead (May 24, 2019)

bhazard said:


> ZS10 Pro vs CCA C16?


The C16 are one of my best sounding IEM's I own. They sound their best on "Hi-Res" portable units and amplifiers. My smart phone has Hi-Res audio built in and I can never get enough of them...The experience is brilliant! Now, many reviews are saying that the ZS10 PRO's has a similar sound signature to the ZSN PRO's, which to my ears would make the ZS10 PRO and interesting buy, if truth be told that they are technically better, of course! Though, the ZSN PRO's are really good, but doesn't beat the technical details that the C16's are capable of, I will soon decide if getting the ZS10 PRO's will do "leap-and-bounds" over the C16. So, got to count my money in the bank first, then make a final decision to get the much talked about ZS10 PRO's.

...Clear


----------



## zazaboy

Ultrainferno said:


> Here's how Nano feels about the KS AS16: https://www.headfonia.com/kz-as16-review/



I hope they drop fast in price so I can buy it for a good price.. I think this iems are underrated not much impressions yet


----------



## auraldesire95

My KZ ZST Pro are going to be delivered today! It’s taken 8 days which I think is awesome, considering they come from China.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (May 24, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm going to start flirting with other brands. I hope you guys do too so we can eventually have a better KZ thread when we compare those other iems.
> 
> Wishlist: Moondrop Crescent and BQEYZ KB100.



Ditto. Prefer detachable cable iems as I damage cables more often than not. So probably want to buy a few DD only variants. Maybe Boarseman or Yersen or something like that.

KB100 is totally worth it. I had few issues with ear guides but sq wise it's fun and very likeable.


----------



## moisespr123

B9Scrambler said:


> I'm giving them a pass. Technically very impressive, love the build quality, but way too bright and bass light. If you enjoy lots of treble and an analytic signature, by all means give them a go. Not a very versatile tune.



It's interesting you find it bright. For me, the ZS10 Pro is brighter on the treble and coming from those, I find the AS16 to be actually kind of neutral with an emphasis around the mids/vocals.


----------



## B9Scrambler

moisespr123 said:


> It's interesting you find it bright. For me, the ZS10 Pro is brighter on the treble and coming from those, I find the AS16 to be actually kind of neutral with an emphasis around the mids/vocals.



Interesting indeed. I'm not treble sensitive at all yet the AS16 quite irks me.


----------



## Slater (May 24, 2019)

randomnin said:


> Yup, I was also about to point that out, for example, this 17$ 0.11Ohm listing from the great PRC:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32916162030.html
> (053) hck ct1 ofc 8c (brown,slim plugs,M).....................110..avg (115 mmcx)..[27]..many measured



Yes, that cable has really low resistance. However, that doesn’t automatically guarantee good sound. In fact, @hakuzen has said the brown cable you linked (with the curved 3.5mm plug) doesn’t sound good.

The other NiceHCK cable (which looks basically the same but has a carbon fiber plug) has better sound between the 2.


----------



## auraldesire95

Right at this moment I’m listening to *4x4=12* by *deadmau5* through my KZ ZST Pro’s.

The two-pin connector was stubborn as heck to push in on the left earphone, yet the right pushed in with ease.


----------



## paulwasabii

1clearhead said:


> The C16 are one of my best sounding IEM's I own. They sound their best on "Hi-Res" portable units and amplifiers. My smart phone has Hi-Res audio built in and I can never get enough of them...The experience is brilliant! Now, many reviews are saying that the ZS10 PRO's has a similar sound signature to the ZSN PRO's, which to my ears would make the ZS10 PRO and interesting buy, if truth be told that they are technically better, of course! Though, the ZSN PRO's are really good, but doesn't beat the technical details that the C16's are capable of, I will soon decide if getting the ZS10 PRO's will do "leap-and-bounds" over the C16. So, got to count my money in the bank first, then make a final decision to get the much talked about ZS10 PRO's.
> 
> ...Clear



After trying the ZSN Pros and seeing all the talk about the ZS10, I am tempted to pay for the ZS10. On the other hand, maybe they just sound similar and not worth paying twice as much for the 10s.  To be honest, the ZSN Pros fit my ears very well, so I might stick with it just for the comfort.


----------



## paulwasabii (May 24, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you guys like that new gold KZ Cable? One online reviewer says it comes with the ZSN Pro?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005875289.html



I was looking around Aliexpress last night and it is a few dollars cheaper here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...r-Original-ZS10-Pro-ZSN-AS10/33009244409.html

And a few more cents off in the app

Ordered and I doubt it comes with the ZSN Pro,  The ZSN Pro certainly did not come with that cable.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm going to start flirting with other brands. I hope you guys do too so we can eventually have a better KZ thread when we compare those other iems.
> 
> Wishlist: Moondrop Crescent and BQEYZ KB100.



Both of those are excellent.  I think that many in here have always flirted with other brands


----------



## Podster (May 24, 2019)

paulwasabii said:


> I was looking around Aliexpress last night and it is a few dollars cheaper here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...r-Original-ZS10-Pro-ZSN-AS10/33009244409.html
> 
> And a few more cents off in the app
> ...



That is a good cable pairing for the KZ's, been using them for a while now.

Got a little KZ/TRN Party goin' on here






Not Me @mbwilson111  Does this qualify as flirting (Easy Panda I'm just talking iem's here)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hello I have been reading this thread for a while and finally made an account so I can ask one question.  How does the KZ ZS10 Pro compare to the Tin audio T3? I own the T3, ZS6,Zs7 and ZSN and I love the bass on the zs7, love the soundstage on the zs6, love the highs/mids on the T3 and love the fit/comfort on the ZSN. Will the ZS10 Pro give me a combination of the Zs6 sounstage + the bass on the zs7 + fit/comfort on the zsn + mids/highs on the T3? Sorry for any mistakes as English is my third language. Thanks in advance.


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> Yes, that cable has really low resistance. However, that doesn’t automatically guarantee good sound. In fact, @hakuzen has said the brown cable you linked (with the curved 3.5mm plug) doesn’t sound good.
> 
> The other NiceHCK cable (which looks basically the same but has a carbon fiber plug) has better sound between the 2.


agree, low resistance doesn't guarantee best sound, but helps to minimize tonal alteration when using multi-BA iems.
sound with cable 053 (the linked one) is good. i just noticed some degradation of sound compared to some >$40 cables when using very good resolving iem. i don't think i'd notice that difference when using most KZs.
the other NiceHCK 8 cores cable you've mentioned (060, 061 in my list) are thinner and have more resistance. didn't check the sound thoroughly, and doubt it is better than 053, but costs the half (very affordable, probably the best option below $10).


----------



## FastAndClean

Podster said:


> That is a good cable pairing for the KZ's, been using them for a while now.
> 
> Got a little KZ/TRN Party goin' on here
> 
> ...


dude you are hardcore


----------



## bhazard

1clearhead said:


> The C16 are one of my best sounding IEM's I own. They sound their best on "Hi-Res" portable units and amplifiers. My smart phone has Hi-Res audio built in and I can never get enough of them...The experience is brilliant! Now, many reviews are saying that the ZS10 PRO's has a similar sound signature to the ZSN PRO's, which to my ears would make the ZS10 PRO and interesting buy, if truth be told that they are technically better, of course! Though, the ZSN PRO's are really good, but doesn't beat the technical details that the C16's are capable of, I will soon decide if getting the ZS10 PRO's will do "leap-and-bounds" over the C16. So, got to count my money in the bank first, then make a final decision to get the much talked about ZS10 PRO's.
> 
> ...Clear



For $35, it's worth a shot. Mine are ordered.

I love the CCA C16 myself, even more so than the LZ IEMs that used to be my favorite DDs. I swap between a Sony XM3, Mobius, and the CCA C16 for my daily commute.


----------



## Podster

FastAndClean said:


> dude you are hardcore



No doubt I have serious issues


----------



## voicemaster

RikudouGoku said:


> Hello I have been reading this thread for a while and finally made an account so I can ask one question.  How does the KZ ZS10 Pro compare to the Tin audio T3? I own the T3, ZS6,Zs7 and ZSN and I love the bass on the zs7, love the soundstage on the zs6, love the highs/mids on the T3 and love the fit/comfort on the ZSN. Will the ZS10 Pro give me a combination of the Zs6 sounstage + the bass on the zs7 + fit/comfort on the zsn + mids/highs on the T3? Sorry for any mistakes as English is my third language. Thanks in advance.



ZS10 pro has less mid bass and more extended high than ZS7, mid is about the same. Comfort wise, it is basically the same housing as ZSN. Soundstage is about the same as ZS6, but because ZS6 has such a recessed mid, it makes the soundstage seems huge. Don't know about T3 as I don't have it.


----------



## pbui44

bhazard said:


> I love the CCA C16 myself, even more so than the LZ IEMs that used to be my favorite DDs. I swap between a Sony XM3, Mobius, and the CCA C16 for my daily commute.



Wow, the CCA C16 IEMs competing against the wireless over-ear Sony MDR-X1000m3 and Audeze Mobius.  Both are ANC, but very, very good ANC models as well.


----------



## RikudouGoku

voicemaster said:


> ZS10 pro has less mid bass and more extended high than ZS7, mid is about the same. Comfort wise, it is basically the same housing as ZSN. Soundstage is about the same as ZS6, but because ZS6 has such a recessed mid, it makes the soundstage seems huge. Don't know about T3 as I don't have it.


Thanks, does that mean that the sub-bass is as good as the ZS7? The problem I have with the T3 is that the bass is too light on songs that have a powerful bass and that the comfort/fit is really bad for me.


----------



## voicemaster

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks, does that mean that the sub-bass is as good as the ZS7? The problem I have with the T3 is that the bass is too light on songs that have a powerful bass and that the comfort/fit is really bad for me.



Yes, zs10 pro is like a more balance zs7 from my experience.


----------



## Slater

paulwasabii said:


> After trying the ZSN Pros and seeing all the talk about the ZS10, I am tempted to pay for the ZS10. On the other hand, maybe they just sound similar and not worth paying twice as much for the 10s.  To be honest, the ZSN Pros fit my ears very well, so I might stick with it just for the comfort.



FYI, the ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro share the exact same shell. The fit will be identical.


----------



## Damikiller37 (May 25, 2019)

The replacement for my KZ APTX HD Bluetooth 5.0 cable arrived and it's fixed  (Previous post with pictures)
Initial impressions using ZSNs comparing between the old and new adapter (around 30 mins of back and forth listening):

The cable has a little more give than the previous APTX adapter (2 pill) and no memory wire in the new model is a welcome change.
Still says "Turn off" on power up... Come on KZ not even a handful of phrases and making translation errors...
There is more clarity and separation. In comparison, the old adapter sounds a little muddy.
The bass has a little more depth.
I can't really tell a difference in sound quality between a cable and the adapter when using my phone (Redmi Note 7). Overall sounds quality is very good. Definitely a significant enough sound improvement over the old adapter. Will have to test and let you all know if the cutting out is gone. I hope so.
Best bet would be to order from the KZ store where I got this replacement from just to be sure you get the updated fixed adapter however for some reason the price has gone up and the current price of £34 would be hard to swallow. I paid £20 and felt like it could have been cheaper. Anyway HERE is the link to where I got it from.

P.S. The new adapter box had a production stamp so maybe that is an indicator if you got the fixed version(?) Although it's under the flap you have to you tear away to open the box so no exterior indicator. HERE is what it looks like. Everything else is the same.


----------



## khighly

FastAndClean said:


> dude you are hardcore


Are you telling me every open surface of your home DOESN'T look like this?


----------



## Slater

Damikiller37 said:


> The replacement for my KZ APTX HD Bluetooth 5.0 cable arrived and it's fixed  (Previous post with pictures)
> Initial impressions using ZSNs comparing between the old and new adapter (around 30 mins of back and forth listening):
> 
> The cable has a little more give than the previous APTX adapter (2 pill) and no memory wire in the new model is a welcome change.
> ...



Is there any noise when you pause music?

Many of the Bluetooth cables and adapters (KZ, TRN, and others) have a faint staticy ‘white noise’ sound when you pause the music. This white noise sound is at the same (low) volume level, and does not change with the music volume if that makes any sense.


----------



## Damikiller37 (May 24, 2019)

Slater said:


> Is there any noise when you pause music?
> 
> Many of the Bluetooth cables and adapters (KZ, TRN, and others) have a faint staticy ‘white noise’ sound when you pause the music. This white noise sound is at the same (low) volume level, and does not change with the music volume if that makes any sense.


I think I know what you mean and yes there is but it's extremely faint. You need to really listen out for it. Playing music with the adapter volume maxed and at the lowest setting on my phone makes the music whisper quiet and I can only just hear the noise between the song. Anything higher at a more reasonable volume and you won't hear it. It was definitely a lot more prominent on the old adapter. I completely forgot about the static since I got so used to it.


----------



## randomnin

Slater said:


> Yes, that cable has really low resistance. However, that doesn’t automatically guarantee good sound. In fact, @hakuzen has said the brown cable you linked (with the curved 3.5mm plug) doesn’t sound good.
> 
> The other NiceHCK cable (which looks basically the same but has a carbon fiber plug) has better sound between the 2.


I can buy that measurable differences of impendance can change the sound signature, maybe even distortion levels, but for believing anything beyond that more theory is required... and, preferably, another property to measure.


----------



## loomisjohnson (May 24, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Yes, zs10 pro is like a more balance zs7 from my experience.


everybody hears (and describes) phones differently--to my ears the zs7 is the more balanced, while the zs10pro has more subbass emphasis as well as  more treble extension and detail. i posted reviews of both on the blog below. i haven't heard the t3, but i prefer the kzs to the t2, which is more audiophile-refined but has less oomph.


----------



## bhazard

pbui44 said:


> Wow, the CCA C16 IEMs competing against the wireless over-ear Sony MDR-X1000m3 and Audeze Mobius.  Both are ANC, but very, very good ANC models as well.



Yes, the CCA C16 easily beats out the WH-1000XM3 sound quality and detail wise. The XM3 is unmatched on a plane/train for noise canceling though and LDAC.

The Mobius is a different beast, but even then the C16 is still not far off. With a KZ aptx hd cable on the C16 they are all excellent wireless setups.


----------



## antdroid (May 24, 2019)

I got the AS16 in earlier this week but wasn't able to play with it until last night when I got home from a trip. It's huge. And I thought I was tired and having fit issues because it was so bright and had absolutely no bass. So I tried tip rolling this morning after finally getting some real rest and didn't seem to help. I then ran some measurements and found this:




Hot mess.

Then I noticed there was a small vent hole on the inner shell, which could be why the subbass is missing. I put electrical tape over it and re-measured:



Yea, it looks better, but still sounds super bright. I don't recommend this. Why do you have 8-driver BA IEMs and have such an unbalanced signature? My ears weren't deceiving me last night.

I'll continue to painfully listen to these as I write a review later but I dont think this will somehow magically improve.


Applying a crazy -6dB High Shelf filter starting at 1KHz, and the tape mod actually makes this a bit more listenable though sounds a tad distant and weird.


----------



## khighly

antdroid said:


> I got the AS16 in earlier this week but wasn't able to play with it until last night when I got home from a trip. It's huge. And I thought I was tired and having fit issues because it was so bright and had absolutely no bass. So I tried tip rolling this morning after finally getting some real rest and didn't seem to help. I then ran some measurements and found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Could you run a graph with the ZS10 Pro and the inner vent holes covered? I'm looking for a little more more sub bass out of them and I notice those vents are huge on mine.


----------



## antdroid

khighly said:


> Could you run a graph with the ZS10 Pro and the inner vent holes covered? I'm looking for a little more more sub bass out of them and I notice those vents are huge on mine.



I can't actually. I sent the ZS10 Pro over to another head-fier. I may buy another set though since I do like them and then I can get it in purple 

Since the ZS10 has a DD, the vent hole is helpful in this case to either help subbass or reduce effects of driver flex and other issues. Granted too many vent holes could lose bass too.


----------



## randomnin

antdroid said:


> I got the AS16 in earlier this week but wasn't able to play with it until last night when I got home from a trip. It's huge. And I thought I was tired and having fit issues because it was so bright and had absolutely no bass. So I tried tip rolling this morning after finally getting some real rest and didn't seem to help. I then ran some measurements and found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, they've totally eliminated any dips in the high frequencies. But now the peak is 5dB too high and the rise after 1kHz is too steep. Plus the bass thing. But keeping customers on their toes and ever ready to buy the next fix is their business model, so ...


----------



## Podster

randomnin said:


> Wow, they've totally eliminated any dips in the high frequencies. But now the peak is 5dB too high and the rise after 1kHz is too steep. Plus the bass thing. But keeping customers on their toes and ever ready to buy the next fix is their business model, so ...



Yes, it seems that putting "Pro" after a model name/number is like a product label saying "New and Improved" I'm thinking about doing that with each new batch of beer I brew


----------



## auraldesire95

With the ZST Pro, listening to *Madonna’s* self-titled debut was sweet as candy.

I tried listening to *That’s The Spirit* by *Bring Me The Horizon* and the bright high-end is too much, almost headache inducing.


----------



## nxnje

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks, does that mean that the sub-bass is as good as the ZS7? The problem I have with the T3 is that the bass is too light on songs that have a powerful bass and that the comfort/fit is really bad for me.



I have T3s, ZS10 PROs and ZS7s.
I'm gonna publish my reviews in these days but.. i can say something about the low end even here.

The t3s are surprisingly good in the low end. Bass and sub-bass are there when called for without adding any kind of boost.
ZS10 PROs has more punch, with an emphasized bass response that makes every kickdrum a real punch. If you like dubstep, you will like hearing the kicks with the ZS10 PROs. Even sub-bass is pretty good and well extended.
The ZS7s, on the other end, focus more on sub-bass, which is more extended compared to the ZS10 PROs imho, while bass is a bit more linear.
I prefer ZS7 lowend as i love their sub-bass extension, but that really comes to personal preference.
If you love a bassy experience, with boosted low-end, skip the T3s, they're awesome but too linear if you like some boosted rumble in the lows.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nxnje said:


> I have T3s, ZS10 PROs and ZS7s.
> I'm gonna publish my reviews in these days but.. i can say something about the low end even here.
> 
> The t3s are surprisingly good in the low end. Bass and sub-bass are there when called for without adding any kind of boost.
> ...


I own both the zs7 and the T3 too. I like the sound on the T3 more except I really want a little more bass/subbass on them and I really hate the fit on them. That is why I am looking for the zs10 pro


----------



## nxnje

LinCeX said:


> What KZ model is good for gaming?. I'm currently using a Xiaomi Piston v3, so my standards are not very high. It stills work well after all this years but got tired of its very bad microphonics.



I have to speak with you again about gaming IEMs from KZ.
I've passed the last night trying some KZs in gaming and i have to say i was wrong with ZS7. I found i had a strange sound profile when i tested them with games so i've just put everything off yesterday.

I'm now in love with my ZS7. They really amazed me yesterday on R6 Siege and PUBG.
CCA C10 can even be good, but the ZS7s are on another level, soundstage height really helps with enemy positioning at different heights.

If you wanna buy something, ZS7 and ZS7 are great. Sorry if i told you the opposite thing, but as soon as i've answered you i wanted to try again and realized i had something on that ruined my experience (some sort of equalization that automatically activates when i play games that has disappeared now that i decided to format my pc and reinstall everything).

ZS7s are my new competitive fps gaming companions


----------



## nxnje

RikudouGoku said:


> I own both the zs7 and the T3 too. I like the sound on the T3 more except I really want a little more bass/subbass on them and I really hate the fit on them. That is why I am looking for the zs10 pro



ZS10 PROs have great fitting. 
They share the same shell with ZSN PROs, ZSN and CCA C10, which is, in my opinion, one of the most comfortable shells i have in my collection.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nxnje said:


> ZS10 PROs have great fitting.
> They share the same shell with ZSN PROs, ZSN and CCA C10, which is, in my opinion, one of the most comfortable shells i have in my collection.


Know that since I have the zsn too. The sound is the only worrying part about it


----------



## mikp

Damikiller37 said:


> The replacement for my KZ APTX HD Bluetooth 5.0 cable arrived and it's fixed  (Previous post with pictures)
> Initial impressions using ZSNs comparing between the old and new adapter (around 30 mins of back and forth listening):
> 
> The cable has a little more give than the previous APTX adapter (2 pill) and no memory wire in the new model is a welcome change.
> ...


So , the date label is different on the fixed cable?

On my third adapter i got a working one of the previous cable, so this one is better? Luckily the ali sellers just reshipped so did not loose money that time, just took almost 2 months to get a working one.


----------



## nxnje

RikudouGoku said:


> Know that since I have the zsn too. The sound is the only worrying part about it


Which kind of music do you listen to?
I was worried as well, but then i cannot be unfair: i received them for free as a test sample so it's obvious i had less doubts as i didn't had to spend money. 
I understand your point anyway as 80% of my collection was bought with my personal (little) money.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nxnje said:


> Which kind of music do you listen to?
> I was worried as well, but then i cannot be unfair: i received them for free as a test sample so it's obvious i had less doubts as i didn't had to spend money.
> I understand your point anyway as 80% of my collection was bought with my personal (little) money.


I listen to quite a wide range of genres from Linkin park style rock to epic trailer music so I want something that is versatile. Which the T3 actually is except I want just a tad more bass


----------



## Slater (May 24, 2019)

randomnin said:


> I can buy that measurable differences of impendance can change the sound signature, maybe even distortion levels, but for believing anything beyond that more theory is required... and, preferably, another property to measure.



You’d have to get @hakuzen’s input on that. He determined the sound differences between each of the cables. I don’t have anything high end enough to even hear a difference. I’m not sure what gear he used to make the audio determination. It was subjective I think.

There is probably no way to measure the sound difference with an instrument. Even 2 different IEMs with identical FR graphs can sound different.

I know he used a milliohm meter for the resistance measurements though.


----------



## nxnje

RikudouGoku said:


> I listen to quite a wide range of genres from Linkin park style rock to epic trailer music so I want something that is versatile. Which the T3 actually is except I want just a tad more bass


Have you tried checking BQEYZ for some punchy and well refined products?
I do not have any of them, but everyone speaks well about'em.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nxnje said:


> Have you tried checking BQEYZ for some punchy and well refined products?
> I do not have any of them, but everyone speaks well about'em.


No I haven't. But I do love the kzs is have right now


----------



## paulwasabii

Podster said:


> Yes, it seems that putting "Pro" after a model name/number is like a product label saying "New and Improved" I'm thinking about doing that with each new batch of beer I brew



On the other hand, some companies used to change products or fix products without changing the name.  Am I ordering the "fixed" one or the "broken" one with the same name.  The KZ bluetooth headset is going through that right now.


----------



## nxnje

RikudouGoku said:


> No I haven't. But I do love the kzs is have right now



Check them out, just my 2$.
What is your daily driver at the moment?



paulwasabii said:


> On the other hand, some companies used to change products or fix products without changing the name.  Am I ordering the "fixed" one or the "broken" one with the same name.  The KZ bluetooth headset is going through that right now.


KZ has done that with the ZS5, making it crap and stopping the production of the ZS5v1, that was apparently their best legendary product.


----------



## Damikiller37

mikp said:


> So , the date label is different on the fixed cable?
> 
> On my third adapter i got a working one of the previous cable, so this one is better? Luckily the ali sellers just reshipped so did not loose money that time, just took almost 2 months to get a working one.


Date label is on the new one. No date label on the first one I got.


----------



## RikudouGoku

nxnje said:


> Check them out, just my 2$.
> What is your daily driver at the moment?
> 
> 
> KZ has done that with the ZS5, making it crap and stopping the production of the ZS5v1, that was apparently their best legendary product.


My daily driver is the T3 right now


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> Yes, that cable has really low resistance. However, that doesn’t automatically guarantee good sound. In fact, @hakuzen has said the brown cable you linked (with the curved 3.5mm plug) doesn’t sound good.
> 
> The other NiceHCK cable (which looks basically the same but has a carbon fiber plug) has better sound between the 2.



I ordered this cable, is it any good?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ade-Cable-3-5-2-5-4-4mm-Plug/32971728152.html


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> Both of those are excellent.  I think that many in here have always flirted with other brands


Apparently, no flirting for me... I have 15 KZ's and will sell the older models soon for probably dirt cheap.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 24, 2019)

macky112 said:


> I ordered this cable, is it any good?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ade-Cable-3-5-2-5-4-4mm-Plug/32971728152.html


I heard it's the best budget cable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Dani157 said:


> So probably want to buy a few DD only variants. Maybe Boarseman or Yersen or something like that.
> 
> KB100 is totally worth it. I had few issues with ear guides but sq wise it's fun and very likeable.


Those are two 'no name' brands with not much of a back history... but these Yersens look good, look good: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yer...-Bass-Metal-Headset-Audio-DJ/32968315239.html


----------



## Slater

antdroid said:


> I got the AS16 in earlier this week but wasn't able to play with it until last night when I got home from a trip. It's huge. And I thought I was tired and having fit issues because it was so bright and had absolutely no bass. So I tried tip rolling this morning after finally getting some real rest and didn't seem to help. I then ran some measurements and found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And people said I was crazy with my C16 graph, which also showed massive sub bass roll off.

I will try taping the vent in the C16 as well. I originally thought it was a bass vent (feeding air behind the bass drivers which often have a vent on the driver itself to take in air like dynamics), and if anything needed to be made *larger* not smaller. I haven’t had time to tinker with any tuning mods though, so my C16 continues to sit in the box.


----------



## peskypesky

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I heard it's the best cable.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Those are two 'no name' brands with not much of a back history... but these Yersens look good, look good: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yer...-Bass-Metal-Headset-Audio-DJ/32968315239.html



Yeah. In sub $15 category, tennmak pro and piano are also in my radar. Look decent deal as I intend to convert one of them into BT iem. Overall seem decent tuned DDs


----------



## mbwilson111 (May 25, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I heard it's the best cable.



The best cable of all time in the whole world?



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Those are two 'no name' brands with not much of a back history... but these Yersens look good, look good: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Yer...-Bass-Metal-Headset-Audio-DJ/32968315239.html



I would not call Yersen and Boarseman  "no name" brands.  They both have been around for awhile and have some positively reviewed IEMs.  Boarseman also has earbuds.  I  have had one of them for a couple of years AND the Boarseman CX98 IEM.



Dani157 said:


> Yeah. In sub $15 category, tennmak pro and piano are also in my radar. Look decent deal as I intend to convert one of them into BT iem. Overall seem decent tuned DDs



I have the Tennmak Pro and it is nicely tuned ... and comfortable.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Could you run a graph with the ZS10 Pro and the inner vent holes covered? I'm looking for a little more more sub bass out of them and I notice those vents are huge on mine.



Those vents are ‘rear’ vents, which actually increases low end. So you want them.

The vent that would increase sub bass when covered would be the ‘front’ vent, which on the ZS10 Pro is by the nozzle and has a little white filter (with a black ring of adhesive around the outside). It looks like a little white bullseye. If you partially or fully cover that vent, it will increase sub bass.

However, it may simultaneously cause some driver flex, as positive air pressure that builds up upon insertion into the ear canal won’t have anywhere to vent.

So you may have to experiment with it, leaving some of it uncovered. Or you can totally cover it with tape, but then poke a small hole in the tape with a sewing needle.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> The best cable of all time in the whole world?



Maybe this is the best cable of all time in the whole world? Or at least you would think so based on the price:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-101#post-14968383


----------



## Slater (May 24, 2019)

macky112 said:


> I ordered this cable, is it any good?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ade-Cable-3-5-2-5-4-4mm-Plug/32971728152.html



I personally like that cable and have a couple in mmcx and 2-pin. For the price it’s well made, soft and flexible, has good quality plugs and is comfortable to wear.

Is it the best cable ever made in the history of audio cables? No, but it’s a great cable for the price.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Maybe this is the best cable of all time in the whole world? Or at least you would think so based on the price:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-101#post-14968383



So, how many of those did you buy?


----------



## Slater (May 24, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> So, how many of those did you buy?



One for each day of the week haha

I like the case it comes with. It has a combination lock so no one steals your $7000 audio cable!


----------



## hakuzen

Slater said:


> I personally like that cable and have a couple in mmcx and 2-pin. For the price it’s well made, soft and flexible, has good quality plugs and is comfortable to wear.
> 
> Is it the best cable ever made in the history of audio cables? No, but it’s a great cable for the price.


+1, what you said..



randomnin said:


> I can buy that measurable differences of impendance can change the sound signature, maybe even distortion levels, but for believing anything beyond that more theory is required... and, preferably, another property to measure.





Slater said:


> You’d have to get @hakuzen’s input on that. He determined the sound differences between each of the cables. I don’t have anything high end enough to even hear a difference. I’m not sure what gear he used to make the audio determination. It was subjective I think.
> 
> There is probably no way to measure the sound difference with an instrument. Even 2 different IEMs with identical FR graphs can sound different.
> 
> I know he used a milliohm meter for the resistance measurements though.


i don't want to start any cables discussion, but want to tell my experience about cables, as i've been alluded and we are talking about cables for kzs (if not interested, just pass on and don't read it).



Spoiler: my particular view/experience of phones cables ATM



i've measured FR when using tons of different cables. no significant difference, other than found in critical low impedance high sensitive multi-BA iems, due to impedance.
measured distortion as well. no significant differences either (although i want to repeat these measurements in better conditions).
used a full iec 60318-4(711) rig (precision mic and preamp included) and emu-0404 usb soundcard (ADC and DAC) plus JDS Labs amplifier (0.62ohms output impedance, no gain).

from the prologue in my list of cables measurements:
"low resistance is symptom of quality of wires, plugs, and solders (together with total thickness of the conductor, of course).
low resistance is important to get minimum total output impedance (of course, if your source output impedance is high, total will be high regardless of cable resistance), in order to minimize tonal alterations when using iems with balanced armatures.
it's also convenient to decrease attenuation and to increase damping factor and efficiency.
(considering my gear, i aim to cables below 200mΩ resistance, ~26awg).

cables don't sound, they can only degrade sound more or less.
material and quality of the conductor, plugs, and sleeves, contribute to minimize degradation.
usual measurements don't reveal significant differences in tonality nor distortion. but when rolling cables while listening music, many of us find differences about background noise, thickness, definition, separation, and imaging. they are not big differences, but noticeable.
the ideal cable wouldn't degrade sound, so you could reach the limits of your source and phones.

when you plan to buy a cable, you should consider all this. if your sources and/or phones have low quality, it's absurd to get a fancy expensive cable: the bottleneck won't be in the cable.
once you get decent quality gear, you have to remember than in audio every next upgrade is more expensive to get smaller improvement. the limit is your perfectionism grade, and your wallet.
a good idea is to keep proportion, or to pass when you know that the improvement is not worth it compared to the cost."


my formation is scientist, so i usually ask for science demonstration. and that's why i started to measure cables.

but when doing ab listening, found subtle but noticeable differences about background noise, definition, imaging and soundstage [last round up, i used moondrop blessing, xduoo x20 (stock last firmware, sharp roll-off, no dsp nor eq, balanced and single end, output impedance below 1ohm in both cases), high dynamic range music, and matched volume when different impedance using a 711 coupler and an dBSPL calibrated meter].
these attributes are not showed at FR. guess you'd need a combination of distortion, crosstalk, and other measurements, but even with that, guess you probably wouldn't cover all the parameters our brain uses to process in our perception of sound.
try yourself and compare, for instance, cables 053 (lower resistance) and 165 (better quality wire and plugs, different sleeve) in proper conditions. the difference is clearly noticeable to me, regardless of mood, brain bias, whatever. but you can find you prefer sound with cable 053 for a particular source+phones combo.


----------



## Mouseman

macky112 said:


> I ordered this cable, is it any good?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ade-Cable-3-5-2-5-4-4mm-Plug/32971728152.html


I have a couple of Nice HCK cables and they are...very nice. They are well constructed, and very comfortable to use.


----------



## macky112

Quick question, given the $15 price range, is the current production ZS5 vs ZSN Pro vs CCA CA4, which would be the better buy? Or is there anything else in the $15 range that would be better than these 3?


----------



## Slater (May 24, 2019)

macky112 said:


> Quick question, given the $15 price range, is the current production ZS5 vs ZSN Pro vs CCA CA4, which would be the better buy? Or is there anything else in the $15 range that would be better than these 3?



It depends on what genres you listen to (classical, dubstep, jazz, etc), what source you’re gonna be using (cell phone, etc), and what kinda sound you’re looking for (deep v shaped, shallow v, mid focused, treble head, bass head, etc).

Also, without knowing your answer to the above questions, but based on the other IEMs in your list, I’d definitely consider the $7 Sony MH755 (assuming you can get a genuine one and do something about the short cable like plug in an extension or recable it).


----------



## khighly

Has anyone had major problems with the QC that KZ has? I personally haven't other than the new aptX HD cable, which they contacted me BEFORE I got it and sent me a new one almost immediately. I saw a negative post about QC from early 2018 and want to see if anyone is still having issues.


----------



## khighly (May 24, 2019)

Actually, here's a potential QC issue with ZS10 Pro lol. I put a blunt tip (ends come cut off) needle of the exact same size through the larger vent hole on the inner part of the shell after noticing they both had what looked like some remnants of some uneven plastic blocking at least 1/4-1/2 of the hole on each side. Sub bass & mid bass is increased nicely and has more of a slam like the ZS7's. Sounds closer to ZS7 lows now in my opinion. May have made the soundstage a bit larger and separation better too, but it could just be the P word.* I did not make the hole larger, I only made sure none of it was blocked.*

Perform at your own risk.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Actually, here's a potential QC issue lol. I put a blunt tip (ends come cut off) needle of the exact same size through the larger vent hole on the inner part of the shell after noticing they both had what looked like some remnants of some uneven plastic blocking at least 1/4-1/2 of the hole on each side. Sub bass & mid bass is increased nicely and has more of a slam like the ZS7's. Sounds closer to ZS7 lows now in my opinion. May have made the soundstage a bit larger and separation better too, but it could just be the P word.* I did not make the hole larger, I only made sure none of it was blocked.*
> 
> Perform at your own risk.



Do you have a photo of what you did?


----------



## harpo1

khighly said:


> Actually, here's a potential QC issue lol. I put a blunt tip (ends come cut off) needle of the exact same size through the larger vent hole on the inner part of the shell after noticing they both had what looked like some remnants of some uneven plastic blocking at least 1/4-1/2 of the hole on each side. Sub bass & mid bass is increased nicely and has more of a slam like the ZS7's. Sounds closer to ZS7 lows now in my opinion. May have made the soundstage a bit larger and separation better too, but it could just be the P word.* I did not make the hole larger, I only made sure none of it was blocked.*
> 
> Perform at your own risk.


Might help if you stated which IEM.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> Do you have a photo of what you did?









Just pushed the same size needle through that. It required no force to go through, but it's now completely open on both sides.


----------



## Gustavo1976 (May 25, 2019)

I have Kz As06, Zs10 and now I have seen Moondrop Kanas Pro. Do you think that I´m going to perceive a great difference between this models using Shanling M0? Should I buy MKP?. Thanks.


----------



## archdawg (May 25, 2019)

Gustavo1976 said:


> I have Kz As06, Zs10 and now I have seen Moondrop Kanas Pro. Do you think that I´m going to perceive a great difference between this models using Shanling M0? Should I buy MKP?. Thanks.


Technically (drivers > frequency responses, etc...) they're pretty different animals, the rest depends on your listening preferences and not at last your ears.
Re. the MKP I only studied some reviews but don't think they're a significant step up sonically from some of the better sub-50€ chi-fis I already own ... YMMV.

Saludos desde Las Palmas GC


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> Grrrrr. Was just tracking my AS16 delivery and found this very unfortunate message:
> 
> 
> 
> So much for the nice discount I got (plus the extra speedy DHL delivery), let's see what the rules of the game are this year ...  (like 3 years ago, there was a 30€ fee JUST for the inspection and THEN they added import tax)



Just sharing the happy ending to this: Customs inspected the parcel, did not find anything suspicious it seems and AS16 was delivered today without any extra cost / duty / tax !!! Yey!!!


----------



## DynamicEars

Gustavo1976 said:


> I have Kz As06, Zs10 and now I have seen Moondrop Kanas Pro. Do you think that I´m going to perceive a great difference between this models using Shanling M0? Should I buy MKP?. Thanks.



Yes, they are on different level. I got tons of KZs and Moondrop Kanas Pro. Very different level, clarity that you've never heard in any KZs



archdawg said:


> Technically (drivers > frequency responses, etc...) they're pretty different animals, the rest depends on your listening preferences and not at last your ears.
> Re. the MKP I only studied some reviews but don't think they're a significant step up sonically from some of the better sub-50€ chi-fis I already own ... YMMV.
> 
> Saludos desde Las Palmas GC



I'm sorry but you're wrong, its a significant upgrade i can confirm since I have many budget sub $50 iems and Kanas Pro.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Is this the fixed version?


US $19.33  42%OFF | 2019 KZ Aptx HD CSR8675 Bluetooth Module Earphone 5.0 Wireless Upgrade Cable Applies earphone earbudAS10 ZST ZSNPro ZS10Pro AS16
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EDmzyHE


----------



## Damikiller37

RikudouGoku said:


> Is this the fixed version?
> 
> 
> US $19.33  42%OFF | 2019 KZ Aptx HD CSR8675 Bluetooth Module Earphone 5.0 Wireless Upgrade Cable Applies earphone earbudAS10 ZST ZSNPro ZS10Pro AS16
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EDmzyHE


Possibly. There is no way to tell. I bought mine from the official KZ store and now they have removed the old listing and replaced it with an identical one. Likely because most reviews mentioned the fault with the first revision. To be sure I would recommend getting it from KZ directly since other resellers might still be selling the broken one. Here is the LINK.


----------



## mikp

Damikiller37 said:


> Possibly. There is no way to tell. I bought mine from the official KZ store and now they have removed the old listing and replaced it with an identical one. Likely because most reviews mentioned the fault with the first revision. To be sure I would recommend getting it from KZ directly since other resellers might still be selling the broken one. Here is the LINK.



Ordered from a store (AA Audio Store) that messaged me it is the fixed version, but who knows. The faulty version is just bass?


----------



## Gustavo1976

I bought bad versión and I'm returning that to the seller :s


----------



## Damikiller37

mikp said:


> Ordered from a store (AA Audio Store) that messaged me it is the fixed version, but who knows. The faulty version is just bass?


Yeah it sounds like all other frequencies are not playing. Kinda like hearing your neighbors music through a wall. You will know right away if something is wrong.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Damikiller37 said:


> Possibly. There is no way to tell. I bought mine from the official KZ store and now they have removed the old listing and replaced it with an identical one. Likely because most reviews mentioned the fault with the first revision. To be sure I would recommend getting it from KZ directly since other resellers might still be selling the broken one. Here is the LINK.


What problems are there on the nonfixed version? Because I am buying a lot of things from that seller so I wish to add the Bluetooth adapter so that I don't have to pay the cost that comes with more packages and just add them all to one single package


----------



## Gustavo1976

Sounds really bad. Only bad bass sound. You compare it with the basic bluetooth cable of kz, the cheaper bluetooth cable and you can hear the difference inmediatly.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Damikiller37 said:


> Possibly. There is no way to tell. I bought mine from the official KZ store and now they have removed the old listing and replaced it with an identical one. Likely because most reviews mentioned the fault with the first revision. To be sure I would recommend getting it from KZ directly since other resellers might still be selling the broken one. Here is the LINK.



How does fixed version sound? Does it still suffer from connectivity issues?


----------



## khighly

I may be interested in trading IT03 for Kanas Pro....if anyone's interested in that, ping me.


RikudouGoku said:


> What problems are there on the nonfixed version? Because I am buying a lot of things from that seller so I wish to add the Bluetooth adapter so that I don't have to pay the cost that comes with more packages and just add them all to one single package


It sounds like it's using an incorrect bluetooth profile meant for calling & conversations, maybe 6-8Khz low pass. It basically sounds like AM Radio from a car, but a little better. It says "power off" when you power it on. Just hearing the lows though, it sounds really good and does aptX HD as advertised.

There were zero range/skipping issues, I could walk around my apartment and even to my mailboxes in the hallway without it dropping. On my last aptX cable I couldn't even walk into the kitchen with my phone on the dining room table without it skipping. I'd say the hardware side is fixed.


----------



## auraldesire95

I may just be blind, but I cannot find the *KZ ZST Pro* in *Carbon* on the official AliExpress store?


----------



## mbwilson111

auraldesire95 said:


> I may just be blind, but I cannot find the *KZ ZST Pro* in *Carbon* on the official AliExpress store?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32729542853.html

It is not called Pro.. they called the colorful one that, but I always heard that they sound the same.   Also the carbon is called black... that pattern is why it is sometimes called carbon.


----------



## auraldesire95

mbwilson111 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32729542853.html
> 
> It is not called Pro.. they called the colorful one that, but I always heard that they sound the same.   Also the carbon is called black... that pattern is why it is sometimes called carbon.


Ah, thank you very much. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## Gustavo1976

Someone knows if Kz shows some notice about the bluetooth cable problem?


----------



## khighly

Gustavo1976 said:


> Someone knows if Kz shows some notice about the bluetooth cable problem?


They messaged me after I ordered and told me it was broken and they would send a new one. I believe if you order it from their store, you will get a fixed one.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> It depends on what genres you listen to (classical, dubstep, jazz, etc), what source you’re gonna be using (cell phone, etc), and what kinda sound you’re looking for (deep v shaped, shallow v, mid focused, treble head, bass head, etc).
> 
> Also, without knowing your answer to the above questions, but based on the other IEMs in your list, I’d definitely consider the $7 Sony MH755 (assuming you can get a genuine one and do something about the short cable like plug in an extension or recable it).



I am thinking having a “back up” set to the ZS7 that I don’t mind losing or getting damaged, so maybe the current ZS5 since it’s a 4 driver set as the better value than CA4 and ZSN Pro?


----------



## ShakyJake (May 25, 2019)

Podster said:


> Yes, it seems that putting "Pro" after a model name/number is like a product label saying "New and Improved" I'm thinking about doing that with each new batch of beer I brew


Maybe "Pro" just means "out of beta testing and final tuning applied"


----------



## moisespr123

I think I'll settle with the ZS10 Pro. It's more musical than the AS16. The AS16 sounds just too boring/flat to me. ZS10 Pro has more bass and brighter treble.


Slater said:


> Those vents are ‘rear’ vents, which actually increases low end. So you want them.
> 
> The vent that would increase sub bass when covered would be the ‘front’ vent, which on the ZS10 Pro is by the nozzle and has a little white filter (with a black ring of adhesive around the outside). It looks like a little white bullseye. If you partially or fully cover that vent, it will increase sub bass.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this "trick". Yup, sounds like the KZ ZS7 bass now. Sweet!


----------



## tgx78

Same thing I noticed when I go from ZS10 Pro to c16. C16 sounds too bright and lacks sub-bass.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> Those vents are ‘rear’ vents, which actually increases low end. So you want them.
> 
> The vent that would increase sub bass when covered would be the ‘front’ vent, which on the ZS10 Pro is by the nozzle and has a little white filter (with a black ring of adhesive around the outside). It looks like a little white bullseye. If you partially or fully cover that vent, it will increase sub bass.
> 
> ...



how do I tell which vent hole on IEM is the "rear" and which would be the "front"?  is it relative to the position of where the DD driver is located in the IEM body?


----------



## archdawg

macky112 said:


> how do I tell which vent hole on IEM is the "rear" and which would be the "front"?  is it relative to the position of where the DD driver is located in the IEM body?


The nozzle marks the 'front' side.


----------



## kramercosmo

I am wondering about getting a cheap headphone amp for my KZ earphones. I have Zsn pro, Atr, Ate, Zs5 and a couple more which i use with my Samsung S9 and Spotify. I have never owned a amp before and wondering if anyone of you are using a amp with KZs low priced earphones? Is it worth it?


----------



## Slater (May 25, 2019)

macky112 said:


> how do I tell which vent hole on IEM is the "rear" and which would be the "front"?  is it relative to the position of where the DD driver is located in the IEM body?



It depends on the design of the particular IEM.

The physical position of the vent on the IEM shell may be different from ‘front’ or ‘back’. For example, BQEYZ puts ALL of their vents (front and back vents) right next to one another on the inside surface of the IEM (in the front of the IEM by the nozzle). The ZSN, ZSN Pro, and ZS10 Pro has ‘rear’ driver vents located in the back *and* front of the IEM.

But the front and back vents I’m referring to is in relation to the *driver*, not the physical location.

The ‘front’ vent would be any vent that regulates air pressure between the diaphragm of the driver and the end of the IEM nozzle. In other words, it’s venting the music (usually bass) that’s being outputted from the driver(s).

The ‘rear’ vent is the air the driver is ‘breathing in’ so to speak. It is any vent that is regulating pressure behind the diaphragm of the driver.

So to think of it like car engine, the ‘rear’ vent of an IEM is like the air intake of a car. It’s usually located in the engine compartment somewhere, but technically it can be located anywhere on the car. It takes air into the engine (the engine being like the driver diaphragm). Likewise, the ‘front’ vent of the IEM is like the exhaust system/muffler of the car. It’s where the ‘output’ of the engine goes. It’s usually located at the very back of a car, but again the exhaust could be technically located anywhere on a car.

So tweaking the front or rear vents of an IEM is like tweaking the intake and exhaust of a car. You can change the engine characteristics by making the air intake more or less restrictive, and also making the exhaust system more or less restrictive.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> It depends on the design of the particular IEM.
> 
> The physical position of the vent on the IEM shell may be different from ‘front’ or ‘back’.
> 
> ...



Got it, thx!

And can I assume it’ll generally increase bass by (partially) closing the front vent?


----------



## Slater (May 25, 2019)

macky112 said:


> Got it, thx!
> 
> And can I assume it’ll generally increase bass by (partially) closing the front vent?



The short answer is yes, it will generally increase bass.

The longer answer is that it won’t make more bass where none exists; the driver makes a set amount of bass regardless. It is simply reducing the loss of bass due to the pressure which leaks out the front vent (if that makes sense).

It’s like the seal from the eartip. If the ear tip is too small or doesn’t have a good seal, the earphone isn’t making less bass. It’s just that some of the air pressure is leaking out.

Think of it like a garden hose with a hole poked in it. The water spigot itself sends out water at the same rate (say 2 gallons per minute). But if there’s a hole (vent) in the hose, some water is leaking out of that vent on its way to the end of the hose. So only 1.75 gallons per minute of water may actually be coming out the very end of the hose. Plugging up the hole (vent) in the hose won’t magically make 3 gallons of water per minute come out the spigot; it’s still coming out at 2 gallons per minute. The difference is that with the vent/hole plugged, 100% of those 2 gallons of water is coming out the very end of the hose.


----------



## Mybutthurts

I have a FIIO A3 amp and use it with my set of KZ iems (ZS10 Pro, ZS10 ,and AS10)
Yesterday I tried out my Ate using my amp and it certainly made a difference to the SQ of the ate.



kramercosmo said:


> I am wondering about getting a cheap headphone amp for my KZ earphones. I have Zsn pro, Atr, Ate, Zs5 and a couple more which i use with my Samsung S9 and Spotify. I have never owned a amp before and wondering if anyone of you are using a amp with KZs low priced earphones? Is it worth it?


----------



## Gustavo1976

khighly said:


> They messaged me after I ordered and told me it was broken and they would send a new one. I believe if you order it from their store, you will get a fixed one.


I wrote to seller and he told me that I send the bad cable and then he ll send me a new cable.


----------



## mikp (May 25, 2019)

Gustavo1976 said:


> I wrote to seller and he told me that I send the bad cable and then he ll send me a new cable.


what store?

After years on ali, ive never shipped anything back. If he will not refund\reship without you sending back, open a dispute. Just remember you have 2 weeks to do this after order is confirmed.


----------



## Gustavo1976

mikp said:


> what store?
> 
> SA Audio Store
> 
> After years on ali, ive never shipped anything back. If he will not refund\reship without you sending back, open a dispute. Just remember you have 2 weeks to do this after order is confirmed.


----------



## auraldesire95

Can anybody tell me the difference between these two KZ ZSN listings on AliExpress. They’re both sold by KZ Official Store and they’re both the same price.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cCx6v7LK (2000+ orders)

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bQTSc5ni (500+ orders)


----------



## HungryPanda

auraldesire95 said:


> Can anybody tell me the difference between these two KZ ZSN listings on AliExpress. They’re both sold by KZ Official Store and they’re both the same price.
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cCx6v7LK (2000+ orders)
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bQTSc5ni (500+ orders)


they seem to be the same from the KZ store


----------



## Aparker2005

Hey guys. I need if possible, a longer, high quality cable for my AS16 and AS10. I use these primarily for in ears for my drums, so a longer cable than the stock kz would be great. Thanks!


----------



## courierdriver (May 26, 2019)

kramercosmo said:


> I am wondering about getting a cheap headphone amp for my KZ earphones. I have Zsn pro, Atr, Ate, Zs5 and a couple more which i use with my Samsung S9 and Spotify. I have never owned a amp before and wondering if anyone of you are using a amp with KZs low priced earphones? Is it worth it?


I have been using portable battery powered amps for my portable gear and headphones for the past 14 years. They really do make a difference. Currently, I use a Fiio Q1MK2, which also has a digital-to-analogue converter (or DAC) in it, with my Samsung S8+. I highly recommend it for around $100. It sounds really great, and would be a nice upgrade to ANY earphone. I use it with my KZ ZS10 PRO and Moondrop Kanas Pro, as well as all of my over ear headphones. It's an awesome piece of kit for the price, and really elevates the SQ to a much better level when compared to the headphone out and built in dac in your S9. The Q1MK2 is available on Amazon, Ebay, Aliexpress amongst others. I highly rec this unit because it will keep up with your needs, should you decide to upgrade your earphones in the future. This thing is extremely versatile, as it can be used as a standalone dac, amp, or line stage if you want to hook your computer to it to use as a preamp for powered speakers. For around $100 it's a steal.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot to mention... it also has a balanced output, something that isn't even offered as standard equipment on many digital audio players.


----------



## Slater (May 26, 2019)

Aparker2005 said:


> Hey guys. I need if possible, a longer, high quality cable for my AS16 and AS10. I use these primarily for in ears for my drums, so a longer cable than the stock kz would be great. Thanks!



What about an 3.5mm aux extension?

They come in all sorts of lengths, and are inexpensive.

Some good budget ones are Vention, mediabridge, and ugreen.

Just search Aliexpress, Amazon, etc for “3.5mm aux extension” and you’ll see them all.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> What about an 3.5mm aux extension?
> 
> They come in all sorts of lengths, and are inexpensive.
> 
> ...



I have a few in different lengths for different needs.


----------



## archdawg (May 26, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> I'm sorry but you're wrong, its a significant upgrade i can confirm since I have many budget sub $50 iems and Kanas Pro.



Well, would you say then that 'audiofool' (@Wiljen) is 'wrong' too, when he gives the sub-$50 BQEYZ K2 and KC2 a pretty similar rating in his reviews?

Kanas Pro: Bass 8, Mids 7.5, Treble 7, Soundstage 8, Imaging 7
K2/KC2: Bass 7, Mids 8, Treble 8, Soundstage 7, Imaging 7

... or that @B9Scrambler aka 'The Contraptionist' is wrong when he says something like this in his review on the BQEYZ KC2:
"When I first put the KC2 in my ears and fired up a track, I was smacked across the face by a tidal wave of familiarity. “This thing sounds exactly like the ZS6,” I thought. Now that I’ve a/b’ed the two, I’ve reduced that to sounding almost identical, save for a few tweaks here and there deeper, more textured, and more impactful bass..." ...

Just two examples out of a good number of comparisons I ran across and I have no reason to believe that anyone is 'wrong' here. At the end of the day everything, including all the technical differences and those in price boil down to individual, subjective impressions ... no more, no less.
Anyway, I guess I got your point DE. I might have a chance to audition the MKP and some more hi-end TOTL IEMs next month ... I'll report back.


----------



## B9Scrambler

archdawg said:


> Well, would you say then that 'audiofool' (@Wiljen) is 'wrong' too, when he gives the sub-$50 BQEYZ K2 and KC2 a pretty similar rating in his reviews?
> 
> Kanas Pro: Bass 8, Mids 7.5, Treble 7, Soundstage 8, Imaging 7
> K2/KC2: Bass 7, Mids 8, Treble 8, Soundstage 7, Imaging 7
> ...



I'm always wrong. Don't waste your time reading my reviews.  Have a happy Sunday all!


----------



## TechnoidFR

archdawg said:


> Well, would you say then that 'audiofool' (@Wiljen) is 'wrong' too, when he gives the sub-$50 BQEYZ K2 and KC2 a pretty similar rating in his reviews?
> 
> Kanas Pro: Bass 8, Mids 7.5, Treble 7, Soundstage 8, Imaging 7
> K2/KC2: Bass 7, Mids 8, Treble 8, Soundstage 7, Imaging 7
> ...



It's clearly like zs6 without hot treble


----------



## DynamicEars (May 26, 2019)

archdawg said:


> Well, would you say then that 'audiofool' (@Wiljen) is 'wrong' too, when he gives the sub-$50 BQEYZ K2 and KC2 a pretty similar rating in his reviews?
> 
> Kanas Pro: Bass 8, Mids 7.5, Treble 7, Soundstage 8, Imaging 7
> K2/KC2: Bass 7, Mids 8, Treble 8, Soundstage 7, Imaging 7
> ...



I'm sorry for my words, I shouldn't use definite words which are ended up like absolute judgement. You're right everything in audio world is subjective and everyone hear things differently.
For that, I sincerely apologize. What i was trying to say is Kanas Pro for me is technically superior above all my sub $50 chifis, I've never heard such clarity under $100 iem. Even surpassing my EX1000 in terms of clarity. You have to try it if you got a chance. Don't get me wrong, i just want to share how good they are, so you can hear something more rather than $50 chifi, don't limit your audio experience.
Cheers buddy!


----------



## archdawg

DynamicEars said:


> I'm sorry for my words, I shouldn't use definite words which are ended up like absolute judgement. You're right everything in audio world is subjective and everyone hear things differently.
> For that, I sincerely apologize. What i was trying to say is Kanas Pro for me is technically superior above all my sub $50 chifis, I've never heard such clarity under $100 iem. Even surpassing my EX1000 in terms of clarity. You have to try it if you got a chance. Don't get me wrong, i just want to share how good they are, so you can hear something more rather than $50 chifi.
> Cheers buddy!



I got your point, DE and as a hopeless sucker for clarity and transparency I can't wait to audition the MKP.
Have a great one!


----------



## B9Scrambler

My subjective thoughts on the AS16. Looks great and is very well built, but too bright and too expensive for what you get. Skip it and stick with the C16. Better bang for your buck with a more balanced but less technically capable tune. 

Head-fi / The Contraptionist


  ​


----------



## muths66

Anyone able to find balanced cable with 2.5mm trrs for kz zs10?


----------



## drbluenewmexico

B9Scrambler said:


> I'm always wrong. Don't waste your time reading my reviews.  Have a happy Sunday all!


Nah, but you were wrong this time when you said you were always wrong and that reading your reviews is a waste of time!
stay Scrambled and Benign!


----------



## macky112

Is it safe to assume from looking at product diagrams that if no pcb crossover board is present, then such KZ/CCA product doesn’t have crossover?

I am looking at the ZSN Pro diagram and KZ states “electronic frequency division” and points to the back of the DD


----------



## Folly

archdawg said:


> I got your point, DE and as a hopeless sucker for clarity and transparency I can't wait to audition the MKP.
> Have a great one!



I can also vouch for the KPE. You do get what you pay for and more with this one. Still could not find a better alternative under $200, or even $300. Well, maybe the KXXS which I think I will find out soon


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> Is it safe to assume from looking at product diagrams that if no pcb crossover board is present, then such KZ/CCA product doesn’t have crossover?
> 
> I am looking at the ZSN Pro diagram and KZ states “electronic frequency division” and points to the back of the DD



The crossover board on many KZs is a circular doughnut-shaped board on the back of the primary DD. They’ve been doing it like that for a while now.

ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS5, ZS6, and many others are set up like that.


----------



## Aparker2005

I'm liking my as16 but I do notice there isn't as much bass as the as10. I think I'll keep these but the missing bass is definitely a notch against them.


----------



## Makahl (May 26, 2019)

So, I got the ZS10 Pro and I'd like to use it with a black cable, is there any option with that "Para C" connector? I think there's one which has been discussed previously but it's for QDC so the pins are wired different, right?


----------



## DynamicEars

Makahl said:


> So, I got the ZS10 Pro and I'd like to use it with a black cable, is there any option with that "Para C" connector? I think there's one which has been discussed previously but it's for QDC so the pins are wired different, right?



search for Jcally cable for ZSN, they have it, black with para C connector and good cable (8 core)


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm waiting on the Jcally cable it should come Tuesday


----------



## legacy404

Earlier,  i switched out the large stock starline tips for comply's on my ZS7 as i felt that something was lacking.  Even with medium comply isolation tips, i couldn't quite get the perfect fit, as they tend to slide, or pop out after awhile, and would need to keep pushing them back in for extended sesssions.

I just picked up Spinfit CP145-M and I have to say, these are probably the best so far.  Getting way better isolation with no discomfort, and all parts of the frequency band feel equally represented.

On another note, I noticed that the exit diameter on the stock large starline tips are narrower than the actual IEM nozzle, which may be why it sounds kind of bassier.  The exit diameter of the medium starline tips are wider and seem to sound brighter to me.


----------



## hakuzen

Makahl said:


> So, I got the ZS10 Pro and I'd like to use it with a black cable, is there any option with that "Para C" connector? I think there's one which has been discussed previously but it's for QDC so the pins are wired different, right?





DynamicEars said:


> search for Jcally cable for ZSN, they have it, black with para C connector and good cable (8 core)


jcally cable for ZSN is wired for QDC (inverse of KZ polarity). not a sound issue, because both sides are inverted: not out of phase. so any other QDC terminated cable will serve as well as jcally cable


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> What about an 3.5mm aux extension?
> 
> Some good budget ones are Vention, mediabridge, and ugreen.
> 
> Just search Aliexpress, Amazon, etc for “3.5mm aux extension” and you’ll see them all.


Why would he want a 3.5mm aux for a pair of earphones? Lol. Oh btw, I was the idiot who bought 50 random 3.5mm aux cables on Ali and the Ugreen HIFI cable was basically the "only" good one.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> I'm waiting on the Jcally cable it should come Tuesday


I'm wondering if people can compare those to the TRN, NiceHCK, KZ upgrade cables? I'm worried the Jcally sounds as bad as a TRN.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Folly said:


> I can also vouch for the KPE. You do get what you pay for and more with this one. Still could not find a better alternative under $200, or even $300.


So skip buying the C16, AS16, etc and go straight for the KPE?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DynamicEars said:


> What i was trying to say is Kanas Pro for me is technically superior above all my sub $50 chifis, I've never heard such clarity under $100 iem. Even surpassing my EX1000 in terms of clarity. You have to try it if you got a chance.


I guess you havent heard the Moondrop Crescent?  I heard it sounds 70% like the KP. I get my Crescent in two weeks... or KP Mini?


----------



## requal

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I guess you havent heard the Moondrop Crescent?  I heard it sounds 70% like the KP. I get my Crescent in two weeks... or KP Mini?


 In my opinion it isn't even 50%. I had Moondrop Crescent and Moondrop Kanas in same time, and I was disappointed. But.. it's only another opinion..


----------



## RikudouGoku

khighly said:


> Actually, here's a potential QC issue with ZS10 Pro lol. I put a blunt tip (ends come cut off) needle of the exact same size through the larger vent hole on the inner part of the shell after noticing they both had what looked like some remnants of some uneven plastic blocking at least 1/4-1/2 of the hole on each side. Sub bass & mid bass is increased nicely and has more of a slam like the ZS7's. Sounds closer to ZS7 lows now in my opinion. May have made the soundstage a bit larger and separation better too, but it could just be the P word.* I did not make the hole larger, I only made sure none of it was blocked.*
> 
> Perform at your own risk.


This fix is permanent? Does it only increase bass with no other changes?


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I guess you havent heard the Moondrop Crescent?  I heard it sounds 70% like the KP. I get my Crescent in two weeks... or KP Mini?





requal said:


> In my opinion it isn't even 50%. I had Moondrop Crescent and Moondrop Kanas in same time, and I was disappointed. But.. it's only another opinion..



its all subjective. I got Moondrop crescent too last time, but i give it to my cousin, tuning is similar, crescent got more quantity in mid bass, but clarity and soundstage are really different. Moondrop crescent is like a better, cleaner sony MH755, similar tuning. But they sounds intimate. For me I won't say 70%, maybe 50% yeah,or less. Don't regret, they are really good for the price if you're into harman target sound signature but I want the 100% or more


----------



## requal

DynamicEars said:


> its all subjective. I got Moondrop crescent too last time, but i give it to my cousin, tuning is similar, crescent got more quantity in mid bass, but clarity and soundstage are really different. Moondrop crescent is like a better, cleaner sony MH755, similar tuning. But they sounds intimate. For me I won't say 70%, maybe 50% yeah,or less. Don't regret, they are really good for the price if you're into harman target sound signature but I want the 100% or more


I agree in 100 procent


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why would he want a 3.5mm aux for a pair of earphones? Lol. Oh btw, I was the idiot who bought 50 random 3.5mm aux cables on Ali and the Ugreen HIFI cable was basically the "only" good one.



Maybe someone wants to plug into a desktop system and the iem cable does not quite reach?   Or, as @Aparker2005  said : "I need if possible, a longer, high quality cable for my AS16 and AS10. I use these primarily for in ears for my drums, so a longer cable than the stock kz would be great. Thanks!"

There can be many reasons.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> So skip buying the C16, AS16, etc and go straight for the KPE?



... or the Kinera IDUN,   the Hifi Boy Os V3  (I have both) .... or, perhaps the Tanchjim Oxygen (on my possible wish list... for the future)


----------



## Slater

legacy404 said:


> Even with medium comply isolation tips, i couldn't quite get the perfect fit, as they tend to slide, or pop out after awhile, and would need to keep pushing them back in for extended sesssions.



Are you compressing/rolling/squishing the foam tips before putting them in your ears (and holding them in place until they fully expand)? I’ve never had a Comply/foam tip slide out.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Are you compressing/rolling/squishing the foam tips before putting them in your ears (and holding them in place until they fully expand)? I’ve never had a Comply/foam tip slide out.



added pro-tip: pull down your ear lobe (straightens the ear canal)  and push that thing diagonally up!   

Having had to sleep with earplugs for many years taught me a LOT


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> added pro-tip: pull down your ear lobe (straightens the ear canal)  and push that thing diagonally up!
> 
> Having had to sleep with earplugs for many years taught me a LOT



Good point.

Yes, pull down on your ear lobe while inserting. And also open your mouth while inserting, which temporary enlarges your ear canal. 

Bonus fact: the open mouth trick (and earlobe trick) helps on IEMs with driver flex too.


----------



## courierdriver

Folly said:


> I can also vouch for the KPE. You do get what you pay for and more with this one. Still could not find a better alternative under $200, or even $300. Well, maybe the KXXS which I think I will find out soon


Same here. The KPE was an eye opener for me, and has made me interested in iems...something I thought I'd never do after a bad experience many years ago with a set of Shure. To me, the KPE is a great example of how a well designed and built product that costs less than much more expensive iems can outperform or at least rival the expensive stuff. My newest addition (KZ ZS10 PRO) is another that really impresses with it's performance to price ratio. I'm loving the ZS10 PRO immensely and I'm constantly marveling at how good these sound for $50. I think they complement my KPE very nicely.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why would he want a 3.5mm aux for a pair of earphones? Lol. Oh btw, I was the idiot who bought 50 random 3.5mm aux cables on Ali and the Ugreen HIFI cable was basically the "only" good one.



When using for live audio monitoring with wired connection. The drummer in my church use IEM for monitor and the original cable is too short even when he is sitting down, so need an extension cable to connect to the headphone amp.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> When using for live audio monitoring with wired connection. The drummer in my church use IEM for monitor and the original cable is too short even when he is sitting down, so need an extension cable to connect to the headphone amp.



Is wireless an option? Like ES100?


----------



## Aparker2005

I got an extension. Thanks guys!


----------



## paulwasabii

Anyone pairing their KZ with an inexpensive DAP? Looking to take advantage of the sale at fasttech and maybe grab the Ruizu a50.  Seems respected in the proper threads, just wondering if KZ folks had a suggestion.  Fasttech doesn't have a large selection but happen to have that one.  Thanks


----------



## moisespr123

paulwasabii said:


> Anyone pairing their KZ with an inexpensive DAP? Looking to take advantage of the sale at fasttech and maybe grab the Ruizu a50.  Seems respected in the proper threads, just wondering if KZ folks had a suggestion.  Fasttech doesn't have a large selection but happen to have that one.  Thanks



I use the Hidizs AP80 and Hiby R3. They both sounds great


----------



## HungryPanda (May 27, 2019)

I use many KZ earphones with Hiby R3, Shanling M1, Hidiz AP60 MKII  and Ruizu A50


----------



## voicemaster (May 27, 2019)

Slater said:


> Is wireless an option? Like ES100?


U could, but for drummer, keyboardist or any other musician that is not moving around, wired is still the best option imho. For singer, guitarist and bassist, I think its better with wireless.
 Oh and for professional musician, we don't use something like es100. We use something like this:
Shure P3TRA215CL PSM300 Wireless Stereo Personal Monitor System with SE215-CL Earphones, J13 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ODU9EGY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Fag7Cb8Y7XEKG


----------



## Mybutthurts (May 27, 2019)

paulwasabii said:


> Anyone pairing their KZ with an inexpensive DAP? Looking to take advantage of the sale at fasttech and maybe grab the Ruizu a50.  Seems respected in the proper threads, just wondering if KZ folks had a suggestion.  Fasttech doesn't have a large selection but happen to have that one.  Thanks



I have a FIIO X1 2nd Gen. Which costs about £90, which goes very well with my AS10 and ZS10 Pro and not too shabby with my other KZs.

I've read somewhere that Benjie units are not to bad for the price similar to ruizu you mentioned.


----------



## pbui44 (May 27, 2019)

paulwasabii said:


> Anyone pairing their KZ with an inexpensive DAP? Looking to take advantage of the sale at fasttech and maybe grab the Ruizu a50.  Seems respected in the proper threads, just wondering if KZ folks had a suggestion.  Fasttech doesn't have a large selection but happen to have that one.  Thanks



Check out the Benjie T6, and add a free anniversary gift to it as well:

https://penonaudio.com/music-players/benjie-t6.html?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100

https://penonaudio.com/free-gift-for-5-years-anniversary.html

If you have a MicroCenter around you, go to the cashiers area and ask for a MicroCenter 128GB MicroSD Card for about $12.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 27, 2019)

paulwasabii said:


> Anyone pairing their KZ with an inexpensive DAP?


Zishan Z1 and Walnut V2S.

I wish I knew someone locally to see what higher priced DAPs are like but these ones are good enough and more sustainable too as they can be upgraded as needed.


----------



## paulwasabii (May 27, 2019)

pbui44 said:


> Check out the Benjie T6, and add a free anniversary gift to it as well:
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/music-players/benjie-t6.html?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100
> 
> ...



Thank you everyone for the suggestions.  Was buying a Ganzo knife at the same time so went with the a50.  Benjie was my first choice but wasnt available on that site. Maybe next big sale at Aliex.  What is the story on the Microcenter $12 128gb card?  I do have one nearby.  Usually it's a free 32gb card


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

A while back someone mentioned that the only KZ's you "need" to buy are the ZS6, ZS7 and AS10.

After the recent release of the ZS10 Pro, is this still the case?


----------



## captblaze

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A while back someone mentioned that the only KZ's you "need" to buy are the ZS6, ZS7 and AS10.
> 
> After the recent release of the ZS10 Pro, is this still the case?



never listened to the others,  but have a set of 10 Pros and couldn't be happier


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 27, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> its all subjective. I got Moondrop crescent too last time, but i give it to my cousin, tuning is similar, crescent got more quantity in mid bass, but clarity and soundstage are really different. Moondrop crescent is like a better, cleaner sony MH755, similar tuning. But they sounds intimate. For me I won't say 70%, maybe 50% yeah,or less.


Is the Kanas Pro following the Harman Curve as well? Why is this Curve so "important" anyway? Wasn't it made by one person?

I bought the Crescent to sample the Moondrop brand as the positive reviews (of the brand) are overflowing. I will compare them to the KZ ZS7 even though they are completely different. 

It's important to hear the Kanas Pro is even much better than the Crescent.


----------



## alex5908 (May 27, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A while back someone mentioned that the only KZ's you "need" to buy are the ZS6, ZS7 and AS10.


I have not seen this very post but "by mistake" bought these three altogether. Now I am at a loss- which ones are better. You can't wear three of them at the same time. Or can you?
But serously, ZS7 and AS10 are terrific. At Russian forums they say AS10 does not deliver the correct sound (meaning instruments sound unnaturally), but to me these two are just marvelous.


----------



## pbui44

paulwasabii said:


> What is the story on the Microcenter $12 128gb card?  I do have one nearby.  Usually it's a free 32gb card



Yeah, call your local MicroCenter for their current prices.  Prices might vary by location...but it is their brand and is almost always cheap.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A while back someone mentioned that the only KZ's you "need" to buy are the ZS6, ZS7 and AS10.
> 
> After the recent release of the ZS10 Pro, is this still the case?


Can't speak to the other KZs mentioned in your post (because I have not had the chance to listen to them), but I can tell you that the ZS10 PRO  is phenomenal. Still can't believe that this kind if SQ exists for a mere $50. If I hadn't previously found/bought the Kanas Pro, I can honestly say that the ZS10 Pro would have made me more than happy.


----------



## courierdriver (May 27, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I'm waiting on the Jcally cable it should come Tuesday


I got mine last week and finally installed it on my ZS10 PRO  tonight. Have been listening for almost 3 hours and it sounds spectacular. I got the 2.5 balanced version, and it's a big improvement on SQ; the build is definitely much nicer and more robust than the supplied KZ cable that came in the box.


----------



## courierdriver

paulwasabii said:


> Anyone pairing their KZ with an inexpensive DAP? Looking to take advantage of the sale at fasttech and maybe grab the Ruizu a50.  Seems respected in the proper threads, just wondering if KZ folks had a suggestion.  Fasttech doesn't have a large selection but happen to have that one.  Thanks


I'm using a Fiio Q1MK2 dac/amp right now, but I'm looking towards getting a dap soon to get full use of my smartphone back. On Aliex I have a Xduoo X20 in my cart, as well as the new Fiio M11. I'm still trying to decide which is the better value.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> I can tell you that the ZS10 PRO  is phenomenal. Still can't believe that this kind if SQ exists for a mere $50. If I hadn't previously found/bought the Kanas Pro, I can honestly say that the ZS10 Pro would have made me more than happy.


You're easy to please.  Glad you like your new pro toy.


----------



## paulwasabii

courierdriver said:


> I'm using a Fiio Q1MK2 dac/amp right now, but I'm looking towards getting a dap soon to get full use of my smartphone back. On Aliex I have a Xduoo X20 in my cart, as well as the new Fiio M11. I'm still trying to decide which is the better value.



Not trying to empty your wallet but the x20 is $188 on fasttech with the coupon on their homepage.  Out of my budget, but will add it to the wish list


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A while back someone mentioned that the only KZ's you "need" to buy are the ZS6, ZS7 and AS10.
> 
> After the recent release of the ZS10 Pro, is this still the case?



Z6 was great but they suffer from sibillance for long time session for most people, so ZS7 keep the great of Z6 and share same shell, so ZS7 is coming to replace ZS6
AS10 is multidriver BA only from KZ, good, but for mem the sub bass can't dig deep enough and mid bass bleed too much. ZS10 pro i believe, better.
Many of users here also put ZS10 pro on KZ top list, so i believe its good. lets see couple of days, mine should be here



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the Kanas Pro following the Harman Curve as well? Why is this Curve so "important" anyway? Wasn't it made by one person?
> 
> I bought the Crescent to sample the Moondrop brand as the positive reviews (of the brand) are overflowing. I will compare them to the KZ ZS7 even though they are completely different.
> 
> It's important to hear the Kanas Pro is even much better than the Crescent.



Kanas Pro is 1 of the closest to Harman Target, seems like KZ ZS10 pro finally trying to after it also, from the FR i can see its already good enough considering its price


----------



## Caipirina (May 28, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A while back someone mentioned that the only KZ's you "need" to buy are the ZS6, ZS7 and AS10.
> 
> After the recent release of the ZS10 Pro, is this still the case?



Oh, I 'need' the ZS6?
I was actually looking for an excuse to order that one  Mainly because metal & red
But the ZS7 has arrived in the mail and I will be able to listen to it in 2 weeks ... also read about it having quite the treble (the zs6 I mean)


----------



## voicemaster

After using KZ ZS10 pro for a little over 2 weeks, I can honestly say this is the best KZ has to offer that I own so far.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> After using KZ ZS10 pro for a little over 2 weeks, I can honestly say this is the best KZ has to offer that I own so far.


You dont own the ZS7.


----------



## voicemaster (May 28, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You dont own the ZS7.



I do. I have cca c10, as10, zs7 and zsn pro.


----------



## vegetaleb

Hello!
Long time not checked KZ line of iem, what is the newest and best model that is not over the ear? I mean light like an ED4


----------



## Cevisi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you guys like that new gold KZ Cable? One online reviewer says it comes with the ZSN Pro?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005875289.html


Nobit does not come whit zsn pro still same brown cable


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 28, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> I have cca c10, as10, zs7 and zsn pro.


What happened to your ZS6, ZSR and ZST? (ZST is a KZ Fail!)

Wow, you think the ZS10 Pro is better than the ZS7. Cool.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What happened to your ZS6, ZSR and ZST? (ZST is a KZ Fail!)



I gave my ZSR to my drummer at church, my ZS6 and ZST are kept with my other KZs.


----------



## archdawg (May 28, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Oh, I 'need' the ZS6?
> I was actually looking for an excuse to order that one  Mainly because metal & red
> But the ZS7 has arrived in the mail and I will be able to listen to it in 2 weeks ... also read about it having quite the treble (the zs6 I mean)


We've discussed this last week, apparently there are different versions of the ZS6 out there: one without a lip on the nozzle and older 30095 BA, newer one with nozzle lip and older 30095 (I own one) and the latest version with nozzle lip and an upgraded, customized 30095 and maybe different crossover components - I own two, but haven't yet measured the Xover cap and resistor.
Anyway, my newer ZS6 sound distinctively less piercing and sibilant than my older copy, the higher mids are less dominant, there's a tad more mid-bass bleed but most importantly the great stage, airiness, clarity and spatial accuracy are still the same to my ears ... I just love those puppies


----------



## voicemaster

Love this song with my ZS10 pro


----------



## gourab1995 (May 28, 2019)

Can anyone compare the zs7 with wide bore tips like these (hard textured) to the ZS10 pro. I believe the tips on the newer ZS10 pro make quite a difference.




And comment on how close or far apart they are to the ZS10 pro.


----------



## Aparker2005

I've currently got the as16 and as10. 

The consensus is the zs10 pro is better than the as10? Almost considering getting it and selling my as10s if they're that good? 

I like having 2 sets at one time. The 16s seem to lack some bass especially compared to the as10.


----------



## loomisjohnson

gourab1995 said:


> Can anyone compare the zs7 with wide bore tips like these (hard textured) to the ZS10 pro. I believe the tips on the newer ZS10 pro make quite a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> And comment on how close or far apart they are to the ZS10 pro.


i hear the zs7 and zs10pro as quite different--the zs7 are warmer, with less extension at either end and better-tamed subbass; the zs10pro are brighter, with alot of subbass presence and more treble emphasis and detail; the zs10pro also has a more intimate, inside-your-head presentation. i like the zs7, tho from your stated preference you might like the zs10pro.


----------



## Trisse

Just wanna say, the kz zs7 sound very good matched with a brighter source like the sabre ess dac on my sabaj  da2/ smsl idea


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you guys like that new gold KZ Cable? One online reviewer says it comes with the ZSN Pro?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005875289.html



Did not come with my ZSN PRO.


----------



## moisespr123

It's funny because the AS16 has what the ZS10 Pro lacks.

For me, I'd describe it like this:
ZS7 -> Bass -> Warm
ZS10 Pro -> Bass / Treble -> Bright
AS16 -> Mids -> Neutral?


----------



## gourab1995 (May 28, 2019)

loomisjohnson said:


> i hear the zs7 and zs10pro as quite different--the zs7 are warmer, with less extension at either end and better-tamed subbass; the zs10pro are brighter, with alot of subbass presence and more treble emphasis and detail; the zs10pro also has a more intimate, inside-your-head presentation. i like the zs7, tho from your stated preference you might like the zs10pro.



Any word on imaging between the two.
Also this is what you observe with wide bore tips?


----------



## nraymond

What are people's preferred eartips for the ZS10 Pro? I tried about 4 different types, and have settled on the JVC Spiral Dots.


----------



## moisespr123

nraymond said:


> What are people's preferred eartips for the ZS10 Pro? I tried about 4 different types, and have settled on the JVC Spiral Dots.



I just used the stock ones. They were the standard ones. It did come with the star tips if I wanted to use those but I stuck with the standard ones.


----------



## khighly (May 28, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What happened to your ZS6, ZSR and ZST? (ZST is a KZ Fail!)
> 
> Wow, you think the ZS10 Pro is better than the ZS7. Cool.


ZST is definitely not a KZ fail. It's very listenable and I recall enjoying them a lot when they first came out. The ED12 was a true KZ fail.



archdawg said:


> We've discussed this last week, apparently there are different versions of the ZS6 out there: one without a lip on the nozzle and older 30095 BA, newer one with nozzle lip and older 30095 (I own one) and the latest version with nozzle lip and an upgraded, customized 30095 and maybe different crossover components - I own two, but haven't yet measured the Xover cap and resistor.
> Anyway, my newer ZS6 sound distinctively less piercing and sibilant than my older copy, the higher mids are less dominant, there's a tad more mid-bass bleed but most importantly the great stage, airiness, clarity and spatial accuracy are still the same to my ears ... I just love those puppies



I have the lipped version of the ZS6 and I don't like it nearly as much as the old "piercing highs" version. It's definitely changed. The old one felt much more airy, more open, and had the best soundstage of any KZ I've had. If I could actually find an old version somewhere, I'd buy it asap.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I have the lipped version of the ZS6 and I don't like it nearly as much as the old "piercing highs" version. It's definitely changed. The old one felt much more airy, more open, and had the best soundstage of any KZ I've had. If I could actually find an old version somewhere, I'd buy it asap.



Be aware, not all lipped versions are the ZS6 v2. I have a grey set that’s the v1.

Like you, I don’t like the v2 at all. In trying to tone down the treble, KZ just made it distant and dark and closed in sounding.

I guess one trick you can use if you want the sound the ZS6 v1 is to just buy a ZS5. The current ZS5 be a ZS5 v2, which is basically a ZS6 v1 in plastic shell with a much lower cost.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> I guess one trick you can use if you want the sound the ZS6 v1 is to just buy a ZS5. The current ZS5 be a ZS5 v2, which is basically a ZS6 v1 in plastic shell with a much lower cost.



But what if I want red & metal?   

And ... never did I think that I would ever and immediately understand the term 'nozzle lip'


----------



## Aparker2005

Ordered zs10 pro. Will probably sell my as10s if they're as good as everyone says


----------



## DocHoliday (May 28, 2019)

khighly said:


> ZST is definitely not a KZ fail. It's very listenable and I recall enjoying them a lot when they first came out. The ED12 was a true KZ fail.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the lipped version of the ZS6 and I don't like it nearly as much as the old "piercing highs" version. It's definitely changed. The old one felt much more airy, more open, and had the best soundstage of any KZ I've had. If I could actually find an old version somewhere, I'd buy it asap.




Agreed, on the ZST. 

 KZ has improved leaps and bounds since the ZST but I don't mind popping it in every now and then, even if just to compare it with newer models.

I use the comfortable single dynamic ED12 for sleeping because I've ruined balanced armatures in several of my KZ's. A perfect seal (for me) often results in moisture build up killing the BA so sleeping with BA's is a no go for me. The ED12 is the most comfortable overnighter (without a balanced armature) for me. At extremely low volumes the bass and midrange come through while the treble is kept at bay so hearing damage is basically at nought.




 

I've actually been thinking about picking up a ZS3E or two for sleeping purposes since it's a single dynamic that will likely seal well for me like the ZS3 does.


Also, periodically I am reading on this that the ZS7 and ZS10 Pro sound similar but I can't seem to get there looking at KZ's promotional graphs. Interested in your feedback on the matter since you own both. I own the 10Pro but haven't yet obtained the ZS7. 

10Pro 


 

ZS7


 

KHighly, B9, Loomis, Slater, Pod, etc., at your convenience please share your thoughts on the ZS7 vs 10Pro.

Much appreciated.


----------



## Slater (May 28, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> But what if I want red & metal?
> 
> And ... never did I think that I would ever and immediately understand the term 'nozzle lip'



If you really want a red ZS6, then you have 2 options:

1. Find a used one or
2. Find a seller that has old stock.

#2 shouldn’t be too terribly difficult. If it were me, I would contact sellers and ask them to remove the ear tip and examine the nozzle. If it has NO lip on the nozzle, then it’s definitely the v1.

If it has a nozzle lip, there’s a 50/50 chance of it being one or the other. So it would be your call.


----------



## DocHoliday (May 28, 2019)

Don't want to risk any of my classic KZ's (HDS3, ED9, ATR, ED3 "Perfection", etc.) for sleeping. The ZS3E with its detachable cable seems the best solution.



 




Actually, just pulled up B9's comparison from his review:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10-pro.23715/



> When there was mention of measurements over on Head-fi comparing the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 that showed they were nearly identical, I was pretty surprised. That said, after spending a fair bit of time comparing the two I can certainly hear how similar they really are, minus some shifts in emphasis in certain areas. My observations have the ZS10 Pro displaying more upper treble energy, less midbass, and a slightly more forward but thinner midrange. Timbre, tonality, detail, clarity, texturing, etc. are all quite similar. The ZS10 Pro also feels like it has a smaller sound stage with more accurate imaging and similarly good layering and separation. Overall these two are both top tier KZs. If you like a brighter, more traditional KZ sound but with bass reigned in, the ZS10 Pro is the one for you. If you prefer something a little warmer, bassier, and less treble heavy, the ZS7 is a great pick. I feel they perform more or less at the same level.




The material phrase for me is "I feel they perform more or less at the same level."


----------



## bobsherman

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's scandalous. Better than the ZS7???


The ZS7 has  become my favorite KZ. I find it very detailed top to bottom with excellent imaging and a balanced sound.  I’ve been listening for a couple of weeks and it’s one of the better items in my collection in my opinion.


----------



## neo_styles

Have a review sample of the ZSN Pro (yeah, I know, late to the party here) coming in. Combining that with a cross-country move means that I've been pretty much exclusively using my purple ZSN or Massdrop HD6XX for listening. I've also discovered UAPP for Android and wow...umm...color me massively impressed. Assuming the ZSN Pro does, in fact, tidy up a couple of the little quibs of its standard cousin, I should be a very happy camper.

Also, UAPP + Tidal = do I really need my DAP anymore?


----------



## paulwasabii

neo_styles said:


> Have a review sample of the ZSN Pro (yeah, I know, late to the party here) coming in. Combining that with a cross-country move means that I've been pretty much exclusively using my purple ZSN or Massdrop HD6XX for listening. I've also discovered UAPP for Android and wow...umm...color me massively impressed. Assuming the ZSN Pro does, in fact, tidy up a couple of the little quibs of its standard cousin, I should be a very happy camper.
> 
> Also, UAPP + Tidal = do I really need my DAP anymore?



Wow, thanks for the tip.  I already had Tidal and some Google Play credits.  Time to try out the headphone jack on the Pixel 3a xl.


----------



## neo_styles

paulwasabii said:


> Wow, thanks for the tip.  I already had Tidal and some Google Play credits.  Time to try out the headphone jack on the Pixel 3a xl.


I think you're going to dig the software MQA unfolding UAPP can do with Tidal as well. So far, it's been a relative breeze to use. Settings aren't nearly as easy to get lost in compared to something like Poweramp.


----------



## El Fuinha

What size is the AS16 nozzle, so I can order some spinfit. 

Let me know please. 

Many thanks


----------



## archdawg

Slater said:


> Be aware, not all lipped versions are the ZS6 v2. I have a grey set that’s the v1.
> 
> Like you, I don’t like the v2 at all. In trying to tone down the treble, KZ just made it distant and dark and closed in sounding.
> 
> I guess one trick you can use if you want the sound the ZS6 v1 is to just buy a ZS5. The current ZS5 be a ZS5 v2, which is basically a ZS6 v1 in plastic shell with a much lower cost.



Heck, maybe there's a fourth or even more versions out there ... who knows? All I can say is that my newer ZS6s, with less 'piercing' treble sound just as spacious and clear as my older, lipped gray copy and not in any way dark or distant.


----------



## paulwasabii

neo_styles said:


> I think you're going to dig the software MQA unfolding UAPP can do with Tidal as well. So far, it's been a relative breeze to use. Settings aren't nearly as easy to get lost in compared to something like Poweramp.



Other than buying the MQA addon, Tidal was a breeze to get listening quickly.  Are there any setting you changed?  Thanks


----------



## Cevisi

I am tempted to try out the kz zs10 pro but i got no need for them this audiophilia creeps up on me


----------



## neo_styles

paulwasabii said:


> Other than buying the MQA addon, Tidal was a breeze to get listening quickly.  Are there any setting you changed?  Thanks


Huh...that's weird. It didn't ask me to purchase the MQA add-on the first couple tracks it played, but finally came up after about an hour or so of playback. Got that taken care of, at least.

Things I'm pretty sure I adjusted:
1. Internal Audio Driver - HiRes Direct Driver
2. MQA - Left "Show MQA playback information" checked
3. Internal HiRes audio > Bit perfect mode - When Possible (required for MQA, according to UAPP's website)
4. Volume > Volume Steps - 100 (I set it this way for a more granular control of volume)

Everything else I'm pretty sure I just left as is. I also (semi-foolishly) purchased the Toneboosters PEQ and Morph-It add-ons, which are rendered moot the second you opt into bit-perfect playback, but I just see that as money going to the developer anyway. They definitely earned it. Morph-It is pretty fun, anyway. Worth playing around with, imo.


----------



## randomnin

DocHoliday said:


> [..]
> Also, periodically I am reading on this that the ZS7 and ZS10 Pro sound similar but I can't seem to get there looking at KZ's promotional graphs. Interested in your feedback on the matter since you own both. I own the 10Pro but haven't yet obtained the ZS7.
> 
> 10Pro
> ...


The ZS10 Pro graph might be somewhat realistic, but the ZS7 promotional picture doesn't look like it's meant to be looked as a graph - it's just a promotional illustration.

If you want actual comparable measurements, ThePhonograph has measured both:
http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zs7-review/
http://www.thephonograph.net/kz-zs10-pro-review/
They do look similar other than the large treble roll-off of the ZS7.


----------



## macky112

I just received my "NICEHCK 8 Core High Purity Copper Upgrade Cable" and hooked it up to my ZS5V1, and I like the sound.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ade-Cable-3-5-2-5-4-4mm-Plug/32971728152.html

how do I go about measuring the resistance of these IEM cables?  I have a multimeter with the resistor setting for 2 ohm, will this be accurate enough?


----------



## macky112

DocHoliday said:


> Agreed, on the ZST.
> 
> KZ has improved leaps and bounds since the ZST but I don't mind popping it in every now and then, even if just to compare it with newer models.
> 
> ...



also agreed on the ZST is not a KZ fail, it actually sounds pretty good for a dual unit hybrid.

and those two promotional charts looks very different than some of the FR charts I see online, so i wouldn't believe those two promotional charts.


----------



## moisespr123

neo_styles said:


> Huh...that's weird. It didn't ask me to purchase the MQA add-on the first couple tracks it played, but finally came up after about an hour or so of playback. Got that taken care of, at least.
> 
> Things I'm pretty sure I adjusted:
> 1. Internal Audio Driver - HiRes Direct Driver
> ...



Does your phone has a hardware MQA decoder? I think the plugin is only needed to be purchased if you're using a phone without hardware MQA


----------



## Zerohour88

macky112 said:


> also agreed on the ZST is not a KZ fail, it actually sounds pretty good for a dual unit hybrid.
> 
> and those two promotional charts looks very different than some of the FR charts I see online, so i wouldn't believe those two promotional charts.


 
another plus for me on the ZST. I preferred the ATR over it, but it was a solid performer at the time of release alongside ZS3, regardless of people trying to stir up crap and call it a fail.


----------



## neo_styles (May 28, 2019)

moisespr123 said:


> Does your phone has a hardware MQA decoder? I think the plugin is only needed to be purchased if you're using a phone without hardware MQA


I don't think there's a single phone publicly available that has the ability to hardware decode MQA at the moment, so I think it's safe to say that the OnePlus 6 doesn't. I know for a fact that the Monoprice THX 788 Desktop and Topping D30 don't do it, either.


----------



## Slater (May 28, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> another plus for me on the ZST. I preferred the ATR over it, but it was a solid performer at the time of release alongside ZS3, regardless of people trying to stir up **** and call it a fail.



ZST was great, except for 1 flaw - a piercing/sibilant peak that was easy to correct with a tiny bit of foam.

It’s got such a comfortable shell, that KZ and CCA still uses the same shell on many other IEMs to this day.

Also, I have always felt it paired perfectly with a Bluetooth cable, being easily driven with no change or degradation in sound.


----------



## Makahl (May 28, 2019)

I really liked the ZST after the foam mod (or even the micropore tape mod). Unfortunately, I got a pair with driver flex so it's kind of annoying wasting 10-20secs to set the sweet spot and get the full sound. 

But the one which really shines after some mods are the ZS3. I've replaced the red crooked tube for PVC ones and fixed its nozzle so all of my tips can stay on.


>



Now I realized I could've used a "ring" of shrink tube instead of epoxy lol. Also, pairing with  Tennmak Whirlwinds it was like getting a CIEM fit but I've found the best pairing is with Spiral Dots.

I'm really curious about how the ZS10 Pro improved from here, hopefully, I'll get it next month.


----------



## High on Ketamine

Does anybody know if these cables are an upgrade over the stock cable from de ZS10 PRO? I read that someone mentioned that the gold/silver cable is an upgrade in terms of sound.

But because the zs10 pro is relatively bright maybe the Nicehck 8 core copper cable is a better match. Are there any sound differences between the pure copper and the gold/silver upgrade cable and do you think its worth it after all? 

Nicehck copper:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...ade-Cable-3-5-2-5-4-4mm-Plug/32971728152.html

Kz gold/silver:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33009271293.html?trace=storeDetail2msiteDetail&spider=y


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I'm onboard the ZST love train. Was my first KZ, and I was blown away from my $22 purchase. Coming from mostly J-Fi in the $100-$250 range, it kinda made me stop and rethink things. Then I bought an Eff-ton of chifi and am now seeing a therapist about it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

macky112 said:


> also agreed on the ZST is not a KZ fail, it actually sounds pretty good for a dual unit hybrid.


The only thing I can hear on my ZST is driver flex. I've never had this problem with another earphone.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> I'm onboard the ZST love train. Was my first KZ, and I was blown away from my $22 purchase. Then I bought an Eff-ton of chifi and am now seeing a therapist about it.


You do need to see a therapist. You don't have a single favourite KZ in your signature yet you're on this thread...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

High on Ketamine said:


> Does anybody know if these cables are an upgrade over the stock cable from de ZS10 PRO? I read that someone mentioned that the gold/silver cable is an upgrade in terms of sound.
> 
> But because the zs10 pro is relatively bright maybe the Nicehck 8 core copper cable is a better match. Are there any sound differences between the pure copper and the gold/silver upgrade cable and do you think its worth it after all?
> 
> ...


The best answer is: just buy both and find out.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> another plus for me on the ZST. I preferred the ATR over it, but it was a solid performer at the time of release alongside ZS3, regardless of people trying to stir up **** and call it a fail.


Dude, mine is full of driver flex that I "don't" hear music. That's a fail and I have every right to call it a fail. The ATR kicks ZST's ass.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You do need to see a therapist. You don't have a single favourite KZ in your signature yet you're on this thread...


And I probably never will but who knows. KZ IS getting better day by day. C10 is close to a KZ, but is about to be bumped. Have not even listened to it in a couple weeks now. Love the mids so much but there are definitly better do it alls out there. That said I love all these people here. Its a pretty good little community on this site, which is rife with toxicity. 

I am thinking about Simgot EM1, BQEYZ KB100 and TK 9 Tail as my next chifi purchases. Therapist says its best to limit my purchases to once a month.


----------



## HungryPanda

I cannot afford a therapist, too many earphones, daps etc. to buy........


----------



## drbluenewmexico

HungryPanda said:


> I cannot afford a therapist, too many earphones, daps etc. to buy........


well, its a bottomless pit of chasing falling stars that can never be caught..
i am a therapist and i cant afford to see myself any more either, and too busy trying endless permutations
of sources, tips, cables, power suppies and more..


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> I am thinking about Simgot EM1, BQEYZ KB100 and TK 9 Tail as my next chifi purchases. Therapist says its best to limit my purchases to once a month.



I’ve never heard the EM1, but I suspect they sound similar to the EN700 Pro (since I believe they use the exact same driver).

But all 3 of those are excellent - KB100, EN700 Pro, Nine Tail


----------



## Slater

drbluenewmexico said:


> well, its a bottomless pit of chasing falling stars that can never be caught..
> i am a therapist and i cant afford to see myself any more either, and too busy trying endless permutations
> of sources, tips, cables, power suppies and more..



Aww man, if you’re a therapist and you’re as addicted to HeadFi as the rest us, then we don’t stand a chance lol


----------



## PhonoPhi

HungryPanda said:


> I cannot afford a therapist, too many earphones, daps etc. to buy........


Absolutely, earphones/IEMs are much more affordable than therapists and much more enjoyable in a long run


----------



## harpo1

neo_styles said:


> I don't think there's a single phone publicly available that has the ability to hardware decode MQA at the moment, so I think it's safe to say that the OnePlus 6 doesn't. I know for a fact that the Monoprice THX 788 Desktop and Topping D30 don't do it, either.


Sure there is.  The LG 30 and beyond hardware decode MQA.


----------



## neo_styles

harpo1 said:


> Sure there is.  The LG 30 and beyond hardware decode MQA.


Thanks for the correction. Wasn't aware of that.


----------



## DocHoliday

BadReligionPunk said:


> I'm onboard the ZST love train. Was my first KZ, and I was blown away from my $22 purchase. Coming from mostly J-Fi in the $100-$250 range, it kinda made me stop and rethink things. Then I bought an Eff-ton of chifi and am now seeing a therapist about it.





BadReligionPunk said:


> I am thinking about Simgot EM1, BQEYZ KB100 and TK 9 Tail as my next chifi purchases. Therapist says its best to limit my purchases to once a month.





HungryPanda said:


> I cannot afford a therapist, too many earphones, daps etc. to buy........





drbluenewmexico said:


> i am a therapist and i cant afford to see myself any more either, and too busy trying endless permutations of sources, tips, cables, power suppies and more..





Slater said:


> Aww man, if you’re a therapist and you’re as addicted to HeadFi as the rest us, then we don’t stand a chance lol





PhonoPhi said:


> Absolutely, earphones/IEMs are much more affordable than therapists and much more enjoyable in a long run






Besides, therapy can be tricky.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You're easy to please.  Glad you like your new pro toy.


Nah, not really easy to please. I tend to do a lot of research (ie. check manufacturers websites, compare specs, read reviews, watch multiple YouTube vids, etc.) before I make a decision on whether or not I should up the coin for something. I usually spend many weeks or even months flip flopping between items and have had countless sleepless nights consumed by comparing prices online and just obsessing over "what's the best for the least amount of $, or should I get the more expensive thing?" All this takes up a good chunk of my time, so when I DO actually find something that exceeds my expectations, I cant help but gush a bit about it. There are more times than not, when I've put myself through this whole process, where I was unhappy with my purchase and had alot of regrets. I'm glad that my choice to get the ZS10 PRO  wasn't one of them.


----------



## drbluenewmexico

DocHoliday said:


> Besides, therapy can be tricky.



Yes therapy can be trick/or treat ment!  but considering how expensive and dangerous many peoples  bad habits are
audio is relatively safe and less expensive than jail time, lawyers, and other alternatives. no one has actually ever
died from portable audio equipment, unless they were attacked by their spouse....


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## courierdriver

paulwasabii said:


> Not trying to empty your wallet but the x20 is $188 on fasttech with the coupon on their homepage.  Out of my budget, but will add it to the wish list


Thanks, I'll check into that to see if that works out to be less money when converted to Canadian $. I can get one on Amazon for $308 Canadian with free shipping. The exchange rate on US to CDN is kinda steep right now, and it's always a gamble buying from the US as to whether or not I'm gonna get stung with additional duties and taxes. Btw, I wasn't sure what you meant by wanting a cheap dap cause you didn't mention in your post about how much you wanted to spend. I suggested the Xduoo X20 because it interests me since it also has a balanced out. Not sure if that's important to you, but it's something I want and is hard to find in a budget dap.


----------



## Slater

drbluenewmexico said:


> no one has actually ever died from portable audio equipment....



Never say never friend: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ed-after-being-electrocuted-by-his-headphones


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LOL, Therapist = Wife. So its WAY cheaper to listen to her then to not.


----------



## khighly

New BT cable is good. Still says power off when you turn it on. Noise floor is the lowest of any BT cable I've tried. No random internal interference or buzzing. It does do aptX HD. It sounds great for BT. Range is 10/10, can walk all around my apartment and to my mailboxes. The last cable in my opinion had really good battery life while it was transmitting into a likely inefficient antenna, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was slightly better.


----------



## paulwasabii

courierdriver said:


> Thanks, I'll check into that to see if that works out to be less money when converted to Canadian $. I can get one on Amazon for $308 Canadian with free shipping. The exchange rate on US to CDN is kinda steep right now, and it's always a gamble buying from the US as to whether or not I'm gonna get stung with additional duties and taxes. Btw, I wasn't sure what you meant by wanting a cheap dap cause you didn't mention in your post about how much you wanted to spend. I suggested the Xduoo X20 because it interests me since it also has a balanced out. Not sure if that's important to you, but it's something I want and is hard to find in a budget dap.



I was looking to dip my toe in the $50 DAP pool which is a50, benjie t6, etc.  Fasttech is in China so I am not sure how that impacts your CAD conversion.  Bought the a50 and then attempted a cancel.  Maybe it will cancel, maybe not.  There is always 11.11 to grab the T6 on Aliexpress


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> I cannot afford a therapist, too many earphones, daps etc. to buy........


Geez, man...I just checked out your gear list. Yup, you definitely have a problem. Lol! You are super lucky to have such a supportive wife.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Graph Database for KZ's (and other brands): AS10, ED16, ES4, S4, ZS5, ZS6, ZSR, ZST: https://crinacle.com/graphs/


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I just ordered the KZ ZS5 in Grey. $17.60USD. Why not?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

courierdriver said:


> Geez, man...I just checked out your gear list. Yup, you definitely have a problem. Lol! You are super lucky to have such a supportive wife.


You should check out her list. LOL


----------



## Cevisi

courierdriver said:


> Geez, man...I just checked out your gear list. Yup, you definitely have a problem. Lol! You are super lucky to have such a supportive wife.


Checked too, he lives head fi


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 28, 2019)

I want you guys from now on to call me, an Ignoramous Piece Of Poo.

The reason why is because I just A/B'ed my AS10 and ZS7 and the AS10 is clearly the better earphone. I'm sorry for overhyping the ZS7, skip it. It lacks sparkle and a top end and is grainy. It's good though. But far from perfect...

The ZS10 Pro sounds like it's a beauty right now. I am waiting on a delivery of the ZS5 and ZS6 and I will compare them all soon, even though it's been done before. I'm going  back to the past.


----------



## SoundChoice

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want you guys from now on to call me, an Ignoramous Piece Of Poo.
> 
> The reason why is because I just A/B'ed my AS10 and ZS7 and the AS10 is clearly the better earphone. I'm sorry for overhyping the ZS7, skip it. It lacks sparkle and a top end and is grainy. It's good though. But far from perfect...
> 
> The ZS10 Pro sounds like it's a beauty right now. I am waiting on a delivery of the ZS5 and ZS6 and I will compare them all soon, even though it's been done before. I'm going  back to the past.



Time to update the sig!


----------



## Veyska (May 29, 2019)

khighly said:


> New BT cable is good. Still says power off when you turn it on. Noise floor is the lowest of any BT cable I've tried. No random internal interference or buzzing. It does do aptX HD. It sounds great for BT. Range is 10/10, can walk all around my apartment and to my mailboxes. The last cable in my opinion had really good battery life while it was transmitting into a likely inefficient antenna, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was slightly better.


Ooooh, I am sorely tempted.  Question is do I (presuming I give into the impulse) buy a cable for the CCA C10 or do I impulse buy something C-cable-based...  >->  (I keep muttering about not being sold on the BT20 which makes it sound like I hate it and I don't, really.  If this cable were junk I'd go oh noes and keep using the BT20s but if/since it's not...)

(Edit - ...  And now I'm not seeing the cable in KZ's store ... ?  How odd.  Still showing in other stores though, including CCA's.)


----------



## voicemaster

Just ordered another ZS10 pro (purple) for back up. That shows how much I like it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> Just ordered another ZS10 pro (purple) for back up. That shows how much I like it.


People were saying that about the ZSN and it ended up sucking blow darts.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> People were saying that about the ZSN and it ended up sucking blow darts.



It wasn't sucking for me at least, but of course with any technologies, something better will come along. There is no best thing until apocalypse come.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> It wasn't sucking for me at least, but of course with any technologies, something better will come along. There is no best thing until apocalypse come.


I'm not sure what but I just think something sounds off with the ZSN. The ATR and ED16 are even better.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure what but I just think something sounds off with the ZSN. The ATR and ED16 are even better.



For me, it sounds natural at first listening. You know sometimes you tried an iem or headphone and it sounds unnatural like you need to think like "is this the right sound?". I had that thing when I listened to AS10 especially the mid/vocal. With zsn I don't have that kind of feeling. I haven't tried ATR nor ED16 yet, but I do have 1964 A6 and hifiman he1000 for reference.


----------



## khighly

aptX HD cable is pretty indistinguishable from my phone audio with a cable, possibly sounding better even. KZ aptX HD cable seems slightly brighter than my other sources, but not by much.

Absolutely hate the length of it. They need to add about an inch or two to the back and cut like 3-4 inches off between the battery/control and ears. Nobody has a neck built like this. The grey is terribly ugly and they should make a clear/clear wire one, or clear & white battery/control.


----------



## peskypesky

paulwasabii said:


> What is the story on the Microcenter $12 128gb card?



It's $14.99 now. Only available in store.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/486422/128gb-microsdxc-class-10-flash-memory-card-with-adapter


----------



## Makahl

khighly said:


> aptX HD cable is pretty indistinguishable from my phone audio with a cable, possibly sounding better even. KZ aptX HD cable seems slightly brighter than my other sources, but not by much.
> 
> Absolutely hate the length of it. They need to add about an inch or two to the back and cut like 3-4 inches off between the battery/control and ears. Nobody has a neck built like this. The grey is terribly ugly and they should make a clear/clear wire one, or clear & white battery/control.



What phone do you use?


----------



## archdawg

Talking about 'lesser' KZ phones, I found my old AKG K450 cans yesterday ('Earphones product of the year' 2011, ~$100 retail back then, lots of 4-5 star reviews on the web), hooked them up to my mobile rig and couldn't believe how dull, canny and downright unnatural they sounded, even compared to some el cheapo KZs like the 3€ EDR1 or 8€ ED9... man, we're all completely spoiled to the bones these days.


----------



## mikp

khighly said:


> aptX HD cable is pretty indistinguishable from my phone audio with a cable, possibly sounding better even. KZ aptX HD cable seems slightly brighter than my other sources, but not by much.
> 
> Absolutely hate the length of it. They need to add about an inch or two to the back and cut like 3-4 inches off between the battery/control and ears. Nobody has a neck built like this. The grey is terribly ugly and they should make a clear/clear wire one, or clear & white battery/control.



The previous apt-x was a little too short for me, controls dangling next to the ear. Lets see how this turns out, or if its the good cable. Always fun buying from ali.


----------



## Zune

I ordered from some ZS10 Pro and some ATR's on Amazon and a Balanced Cable from AliExpress on the same day and i'm impressed with the communication from AliExpress. The cable is in the UK already and at my local parcel depot so should be here in the next day or so. So it looks like Amazon is slower to the UK compared to AliExpress.

I've been reading every post on this thread since i joined and i am seriously looking forward to trying my first ever set of IEM's judging by what you guys are saying about the 10 Pro's


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> LOL, Therapist = Wife. So its WAY cheaper to listen to her then to not.




I knew it!  I almost asked you the other day if this was the case


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Geez, man...I just checked out your gear list. Yup, you definitely have a problem. Lol! You are super lucky to have such a supportive wife.



Not as supportive as you might think...


----------



## Crandall

paulwasabii said:


> Wow, thanks for the tip.  I already had Tidal and some Google Play credits.  Time to try out the headphone jack on the Pixel 3a xl.


 The headphone jack on the regular 3a is pretty alright. Has a bit of hiss between tracks and on quiet parts of songs on really sensitive IEMs (AS10) but gets very loud and sounds accurate enough when using the ifi attenuator.


----------



## ShakyJake

drbluenewmexico said:


> well, its a bottomless pit of chasing falling stars that can never be caught..
> i am a therapist and i cant afford to see myself any more either, and too busy trying endless permutations
> of sources, tips, cables, power suppies and more..



My wife is a therapist, who tells me in a stern voice that I better not buy any more IEMs or else ...


----------



## Cevisi

ShakyJake said:


> My wife is a therapist, who tells me in a stern voice that I better not buy any more IEMs or else ...


My wife slaps me when she sees some iem stuff


----------



## paulwasabii

Crandall said:


> The headphone jack on the regular 3a is pretty alright. Has a bit of hiss between tracks and on quiet parts of songs on really sensitive IEMs (AS10) but gets very loud and sounds accurate enough when using the ifi attenuator.



Thanks for the tip on the ifi attenuator.  It's like the dead pixel, now the only thing I am going to hear is the hiss between tracks on the Pixel


----------



## khighly

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I want you guys from now on to call me, an Ignoramous Piece Of Poo.
> 
> The reason why is because I just A/B'ed my AS10 and ZS7 and the AS10 is clearly the better earphone. I'm sorry for overhyping the ZS7, skip it. It lacks sparkle and a top end and is grainy. It's good though. But far from perfect...
> 
> The ZS10 Pro sounds like it's a beauty right now. I am waiting on a delivery of the ZS5 and ZS6 and I will compare them all soon, even though it's been done before. I'm going  back to the past.









You're all over the place my friend!


----------



## DocHoliday (May 29, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Not as supportive as you might think...





 








ShakyJake said:


> My wife is a therapist, who tells me in a stern voice that I better not buy any more IEMs or else ...





 








Cevisi said:


> My wife slaps me when she sees some iem stuff


----------



## Podster

Doing a little Old School/New Skool today and I can't tell you just how good this sounds on this setup but if this was all I had or could afford I'd be happy as a Clam


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> Not as supportive as you might think...



Your killing me here LOL I'm not even going to post my collection photo for CDriver

@Zune , think you will enjoy both of those especially the 10's with that upgrade cable. Make sure you get 100+ burn and the best sealing tips for your ears and you'll be impressed I'm sure. Cost for ATR's for sound return will probably floor you


----------



## nxnje

Hello everyone,
Here you have some words regarding the ZS10 PRO. 
My review includes little comparison with ZSN PRO and ZS7.

Check it out if you want, and let me know what you think!

https://yourstingyfriend.altervista.org/?p=487


----------



## durwood (May 29, 2019)

drbluenewmexico said:


> Yes therapy can be trick/or treat ment!  but considering how expensive and dangerous many peoples  bad habits are
> audio is relatively safe and less expensive than jail time, lawyers, and other alternatives. no one has actually ever
> died from portable audio equipment, unless they were attacked by their spouse....





Slater said:


> Never say never friend: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ed-after-being-electrocuted-by-his-headphones



Or this
https://nypost.com/2019/05/28/woman...hile-trying-to-free-headphones-from-elevator/


----------



## drbluenewmexico

durwood said:


> Or this
> https://nypost.com/2019/05/28/woman...hile-trying-to-free-headphones-from-elevator/



who knew this was such a dangerous hobby! dont fry your mind or lose your head!!!!! stay safe folks!
i always avoid wearing plugged in charging units while taking a shower or swimming! and elevators!


----------



## Slater

drbluenewmexico said:


> who knew this was such a dangerous hobby! dont fry your mind or lose your head!!!!! stay safe folks!
> i always avoid wearing plugged in charging units while taking a shower or swimming! and elevators!



And never 'burn in' audio gear by sticking your head in an oven! It's not worth the risk!


----------



## neo_styles

Uh oh...might have damaged the left DD on my pair of ZSN. Was trying to clear some excess plastic out of the DD vent and think I pushed in just a hair too far, which caused the small staple I was using to make contact with the driver itself. Getting that _I'm congested in one ear_ kinda feeling right now if I put both IEMs.

Sad to see them go, but I'm still holding out hope that the DD will pop back into place or something. Playing a lot of Tipper and CloZee right now to flex the bass driver. Keeping my fingers crossed...


----------



## khighly (May 29, 2019)

Final on the aptX HD cable: Antenna is still not fully fixed (or its actually a legal RF device!) but it's a major improvement over the aptX cable. Its signal stability and skipping is on the level of my ATH-M50 BT's and my Mee Audio BT cable. Skipping doesn't happen often. Battery life and sound quality is better than TRN BT10, but TRN BT10 is really stable and doesn't skip.

One important thing I've noticed, to me at least, the aptX HD cable connects to any source instantly, every time. Its handshake is flawless. No other BT devices do that for me.


----------



## drbluenewmexico

Slater said:


> And never 'burn in' audio gear by sticking your head in an oven! It's not worth the risk!


good point @Slater!  especially if the oven is on broil! usually not effective to burn in earphones on charcoal grilles, or propane stoves either if you are camping.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> And never 'burn in' audio gear by sticking your head in an oven! It's not worth the risk!



True.

But the tips literally melt into your ears for the best fit you will ever get...!


----------



## Mybutthurts

Podster said:


> Doing a little Old School/New Skool today and I can't tell you just how good this sounds on this setup but if this was all I had or could afford I'd be happy as a Clam




Great track and one to use if you want to compare a ZS10 Pro and AS10.


----------



## Podster (May 29, 2019)

Mybutthurts said:


> Great track and one to use if you want to compare a ZS10 Pro and AS10.



OK if I just use it to compare ZS7 and ZS10 Pro (if the dang things ever get here!)

Hey @drbluenewmexico , I use the Nuker for mine Plus with metal shells you get that great sparkly light show so it's a two fer one thang


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## voicemaster

drbluenewmexico said:


> who knew this was such a





neo_styles said:


> Uh oh...might have damaged the left DD on my pair of ZSN. Was trying to clear some excess plastic out of the DD vent and think I pushed in just a hair too far, which caused the small staple I was using to make contact with the driver itself. Getting that _I'm congested in one ear_ kinda feeling right now if I put both IEMs.
> 
> Sad to see them go, but I'm still holding out hope that the DD will pop back into place or something. Playing a lot of Tipper and CloZee right now to flex the bass driver. Keeping my fingers crossed...



Great excuse to upgrade to zs10 pro.


----------



## neo_styles

voicemaster said:


> Great excuse to upgrade to zs10 pro.


Lol in time. Hoping my review pair of ZSN Pro are waiting for me in the mailbox when I get home. Those come first.


----------



## drbluenewmexico

Podster said:


> OK if I just use it to compare ZS7 and ZS10 Pro (if the dang things ever get here!)
> 
> Hey @drbluenewmexico , I use the Nuker for mine Plus with metal shells you get that great sparkly light show so it's a two fer one thang


You are on to something here Podster! will have to try that next time i am ready for a last experience!, i mean an experience that lasts!  Burn in is so controversial, that this adds
to the conversation!!!  but...i wonder if slow grilling would make a tastier sound signature? and smoked instead of burned? we are learning so much these daze!


----------



## khighly

neo_styles said:


> Lol in time. Hoping my review pair of ZSN Pro are waiting for me in the mailbox when I get home. Those come first.


Oh hey someone local!


----------



## neo_styles

khighly said:


> Oh hey someone local!


For all of 2 more days! Took a job offer in SoCal and heading down this weekend. Small world


----------



## pbui44

neo_styles said:


> For all of 2 more days! Took a job offer in SoCal and heading down this weekend. Small world



If you don’t work weekends and have the time, go to CanJam SoCal June 22nd-23rd:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/canjam-socal-2019-june-22-23-2019.901166/


----------



## neo_styles

pbui44 said:


> If you don’t work weekends and have the time, go to CanJam SoCal June 22nd-23rd:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/canjam-socal-2019-june-22-23-2019.901166/


I'll do my best. Hopefully I'll be able to take my son with. He'd love it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zune said:


> I've been reading every post on this thread since i joined and i am seriously looking forward to trying my first ever set of IEM's judging by what you guys are saying about the 10 Pro's


I started reading this thread on page one, despite having to read hundreds of pages, you?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 30, 2019)

My ZS6 came in. It sounds nice, bright and musical. I'm not sure about sibilance... but it sounds warm and smooth. So maybe not? I will compare if its v1 or v2 when I get my ZS5 in the mail. The ZS6 is a winner. Skip artificial sounding ZSN and buy a natural sounding ZS6!


----------



## nxnje

LaughMoreDaily said:


> My ZS6 came in. It sounds nice, bright and musical. I'm not sure about sibilance... but it sounds warm and smooth. So maybe not? I will compare if its v1 or v2 when I get my ZS5 in the mail. The ZS6 is a winner. Skip artificial sounding ZSN and buy a natural sounding ZS6!



To me, ZS6 is one of the best works in chi-fi as well.
Anyway, i cannot say they're "warm": their treble peak makes them sound very brilliant which can be too much for some out there..


----------



## vegetaleb

vegetaleb said:


> Hello!
> Long time not checked KZ line of iem, what is the newest and best model that is not over the ear? I mean light like an ED4



No?


----------



## voicemaster

Sounds awesome with ZS10 pro


----------



## Caipirina

vegetaleb said:


> vegetaleb said: ↑
> Hello!
> Long time not checked KZ line of iem, what is the newest and best model that is not over the ear? I mean light like an ED4
> 
> No?



For excellent questions like this I wish we had a wikia for all KZ releases ... like release, picture, shape, specs ... 

I cannot recall the last time I saw KZ putting out an IEM that was not 2pin / over ear style ... maybe the ZSE or ED9 ?


----------



## SiggyFraud

Caipirina said:


> For excellent questions like this I wish we had a wikia for all KZ releases ... like release, picture, shape, specs ...
> 
> I cannot recall the last time I saw KZ putting out an IEM that was not 2pin / over ear style ... maybe the ZSE or ED9 ?


Actually there was the KZ ED15 (https://bit.ly/2wuJpuZ), but it wasn't very successful. Also, I'm not sure if it's still available.


----------



## vegetaleb

Perhaps I will just keep using the stock AKG iem that came with my s10+
KZ is more into sports big iems apparently


----------



## SiggyFraud

vegetaleb said:


> Perhaps I will just keep using the stock AKG iem that came with my s10+
> KZ is more into sports big iems apparently


Maybe you should give ED9 a try? Based on countless positive opinions here on Head-Fi I ordered a pair about a week ago. I've got many "better" IEMs, but ED9 seems to be a real legend around here.


----------



## Caipirina

SiggyFraud said:


> Actually there was the KZ ED15 (https://bit.ly/2wuJpuZ), but it wasn't very successful. Also, I'm not sure if it's still available.


Wow, never even heard about that one ...  which is probably not a good sign


----------



## Caipirina

vegetaleb said:


> Perhaps I will just keep using the stock AKG iem that came with my s10+
> KZ is more into sports big iems apparently



I was not a big fan of those over-ear detachable cable IEMs in the beginning as well, but then I got the ZS3 and loved them ... now I am mainly rocking the AS06 and enjoy, besides the sound, the secure & comfortable fit, the combination with the BT20 bluetooth modules and the excellent passive noise isolation.


----------



## katatonicone1

Guys, in the KZ 8-wire flat braided silver cable is it easy to remove the memory wire? How do I do this? Thanks!


----------



## Zune

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I started reading this thread on page one, despite having to read hundreds of pages, you?



I was late to the party. I only discovered this place after my wife said she would buy me a new MP3 Player for my birthday and the research project started. That was around the date i joined here about two weeks ago.


----------



## DynamicEars

vegetaleb said:


> Perhaps I will just keep using the stock AKG iem that came with my s10+
> KZ is more into sports big iems apparently



ZSN / ZS10 pro shells are actually small, they indeed looked bigger in picture, but they are small, and sounds multiple time better than AKG bonus iem from samsung for me. You may try with ZSN pro first, they're good and cheap


----------



## ShakyJake

Slater said:


> And never 'burn in' audio gear by sticking your head in an oven! It's not worth the risk!


 @Slater, are you opening a new style of modding: "baking in" your IEMs? LOL


----------



## katatonicone1 (May 30, 2019)

ShakyJake said:


> @Slater, are you opening a new style of modding: "baking in" your IEMs? LOL


Or culinary show "baking in your IEMs" <slow clap>


----------



## neo_styles

ShakyJake said:


> @Slater, are you opening a new style of modding: "baking in" your IEMs? LOL


In WA, that carries a very different connotation. Can neither confirm nor deny I've "baked in" a few new pairs of KZs and over-ears. Listening impressions were...enhanced.


----------



## Podster

neo_styles said:


> In WA, that carries a very different connotation. Can neither confirm nor deny I've "baked in" a few new pairs of KZs and over-ears. Listening impressions were...enhanced.



So we can safely say you've never Half-Baked a pair eh


----------



## neo_styles

Podster said:


> So we can safely say you've never Half-Baked a pair eh


Only if I'm waiting for the pizza guy.


----------



## Podster (May 30, 2019)

neo_styles said:


> Only if I'm waiting for the pizza guy.



Oh, if I'm waiting for food it generally means I'm totally baked

@SiggyFraud , maybe not to all but for me the sub <$8 ED9 is KZ Legend


----------



## paulwasabii

DynamicEars said:


> ZSN / ZS10 pro shells are actually small, they indeed looked bigger in picture, but they are small, and sounds multiple time better than AKG bonus iem from samsung for me. You may try with ZSN pro first, they're good and cheap



I didn't care for the stock AKG with the S10.  My first impression was I preferred the S8 & S9 version, but I usually toss them in a backpack as a backup to my backup pair.  The Galaxy buds that came with my pre-order are better than the AKG also.


----------



## Mybutthurts (May 30, 2019)

Found this old thing, creative Zen Vision:m. Which I thought had given up the ghost years old... Turns out it just needed a new power cable.
Works well with the ZS10 Pro and even better using the A3.

It never sounded this good back in the day with my old Sennheiser headphones.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Oh, if I'm waiting for food it generally means I'm totally baked
> 
> @SiggyFraud , maybe not to all but for me the sub <$8 ED9 is KZ Legend


You have convinced me! I have just ordered the ED9 off Ali Ex. Can you tell me what the two filters  do?


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Perhaps I will just keep using the stock AKG iem that came with my s10+
> KZ is more into sports big iems apparently



Get a Sony MH755 and an aux extension.


----------



## Podster (May 30, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> You have convinced me! I have just ordered the ED9 off Ali Ex. Can you tell me what the two filters  do?



Well on the original model you will or should find the dull gold one to be smoother and the shiny brass one may be just a little bright for you and I'd suggest a warm player or maybe some EQ reduction of the top end but with that said at low volumes you'll get gobs of detail out of the brass filter. Another trick is the foam mod in the nozzle Hope you like them On the newer model you'll hear less of both if that makes since!

By the way did you order the Chrome or Black version?


----------



## moisespr123

paulwasabii said:


> I didn't care for the stock AKG with the S10.  My first impression was I preferred the S8 & S9 version, but I usually toss them in a backpack as a backup to my backup pair.  The Galaxy buds that came with my pre-order are better than the AKG also.



that's interesting. I thought the S10 version was the same as the S9 but just white? The S9 sounds great and I was using them until I got the ZS7.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Well on the original model you will or should find the dull gold one to be smoother and the shiny brass one may be just a little bright for you and I'd suggest a warm player or maybe some EQ reduction of the top end but with that said at low volumes you'll get gobs of detail out of the brass filter. Another trick is the foam mod in the nozzle Hope you like them On the newer model you'll hear less of both if that makes since!
> 
> By the way did you order the Chrome or Black version?


Thanks! I ordered the chrome version. From what is say I will probably try the dull gold filter first then try the shiny one. I'm not really a fan of filters after having two Trinity Audio IEMs but I am remaining open minded!


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> You have convinced me! I have just ordered the ED9 off Ali Ex. Can you tell me what the two filters  do?



Shiny gold filter = v shape with hard hitting low end

Dull brass filter = more balanced sound with enhanced treble


----------



## Cevisi

DynamicEars said:


> ZSN / ZS10 pro shells are actually small, they indeed looked bigger in picture, but they are small, and sounds multiple time better than AKG bonus iem from samsung for me. You may try with ZSN pro first, they're good and cheap


Yes they sound better and they are really small compared to pictures i was shocked how small they actually are


----------



## Caipirina

Nimweth said:


> You have convinced me! I have just ordered the ED9 off Ali Ex. Can you tell me what the two filters  do?


Thanks for the inspiration for this evening’s listening session. Boy, has been a while since I opened that terrible plastic case! So glad KZ changed to cardboard.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> Shiny gold filter = v shape with hard hitting low end
> 
> Dull brass filter = more balanced sound with enhanced treble


Thanks. I'll know what to expect!


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Well on the original model you will or should find the dull gold one to be smoother and the shiny brass one may be just a little bright for you and I'd suggest a warm player or maybe some EQ reduction of the top end but with that said at low volumes you'll get gobs of detail out of the brass filter. Another trick is the foam mod in the nozzle Hope you like them On the newer model you'll hear less of both if that makes since!
> 
> By the way did you order the Chrome or Black version?


What is the difference between the "original" model and the new one, and how do I know which one I have?


----------



## Podster (May 30, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> Thanks! I ordered the chrome version. From what is say I will probably try the dull gold filter first then try the shiny one. I'm not really a fan of filters after having two Trinity Audio IEMs but I am remaining open minded!



Well I'd say most ED9 owners especially those who are found stick with one or the other filter once you dial them in with tips, source and possible foam mod. I myself prefer the dull gold filter, large Auvio tips and generally a warmer source at decent listening levels

As far as old and new I only have the original models, even my comment on less on both is based on what I've read in the past out here, @B9Scrambler would be the best authority on the two IMO


----------



## Cevisi

Slater said:


> Get a Sony MH755 and an aux extension.


They are badass i showed a friend of mine the t2 whit complys occ cable and es 100. He is a non audiophile doesent now anything about iems. And he says mine are better and cost 8 dollars. He put some mh755 out jacked into his phone and ler me listen i was blown away they where really better.

But where to find orginal ones. Every offer says "orignal 100% no fake" delivered from china


----------



## Slater

Zune said:


> I was late to the party. I only discovered this place after my wife said she would buy me a new MP3 Player for my birthday and the research project started. That was around the date i joined here about two weeks ago.



Welcome to HeadFi friend!

Have you decided on a player yet?


----------



## Zune

Slater said:


> Welcome to HeadFi friend!
> 
> Have you decided on a player yet?



Thanks Slater!

I certainly have, i got a HiBy R6 for my birthday today. The JCally balanced cable arrived today too. Just waiting on the KZ IEMs now.


----------



## neo_styles (May 30, 2019)

In lieu of the dead ZSN (yeah, there was no reviving that DD) and the as-of-yet unarrived ZSN Pro to review, I've pulled the ED16 out of their hidey-hole and am enjoying just working through some of the Tidal Masters via UAPP.

Quick note for those who go down the UAPP rabbit-hole: UAPP itself will do the MQA "decode" if you purchase the upgrade. It's up to your DAC to do the final unfolding, so some devices won't be capable. Apparently LG phones since the V30 can do it...my OnePlus 6 might be doing it (I usually have the screen off and don't pay attention). I just know my ears are feeding back to me that the stigma of the OP6's headphone out being subpar is ill-placed. I'm really digging what I'm hearing.



Zune said:


> Thanks Slater!
> 
> I certainly have, i got a HiBy R6 for my birthday today. The JCally balanced cable arrived today too. Just waiting on the KZ IEMs now.



Excellent choice! If I had to replace my Opus#1, that'd be the DAP I chose...unless I won the lottery, in which case it'd be the Cayin N8. Mmmm tubes.


----------



## Slater (May 30, 2019)

Cevisi said:


> They are badass i showed a friend of mine the t2 whit complys occ cable and es 100. He is a non audiophile doesent now anything about iems. And he says mine are better and cost 8 dollars. He put some mh755 out jacked into his phone and ler me listen i was blown away they where really better.
> 
> But where to find orginal ones. Every offer says "orignal 100% no fake" delivered from china



There’s a number of eBay sellers that sell legit ones.

Regardless of who you buy them from, it only takes a second to open them up and verify whether they’re real or fake.

I’ll see if I can dig up the info for you


----------



## Slater

neo_styles said:


> In lieu of the dead ZSN (yeah, there was no reviving that DD)...



You could always reuse the shells and do a driver transplant (from something else or buy new dynamic drivers from Aliexpress).


----------



## Jupiterknight

Cevisi said:


> They are badass i showed a friend of mine the t2 whit complys occ cable and es 100. He is a non audiophile doesent now anything about iems. And he says mine are better and cost 8 dollars. He put some mh755 out jacked into his phone and ler me listen i was blown away they where really better.
> 
> But where to find orginal ones. Every offer says "orignal 100% no fake" delivered from china



I have bought many pairs of mh755 from this US seller and so far all original.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-So...s-Earphones-For-SBH20-iPod-MP3/361884429431?h


----------



## neo_styles

Slater said:


> You could always reuse the shells and do a driver transplant (from something else or buy new dynamic drivers from Aliexpress).


Damnit...should have thought of that before I tossed 'em. Oh well.

FWIW, _Songs from the Big Chair_ is sounding mighty fine on the ED16 today. No complaints.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> Get a Sony MH755 and an aux extension.



Now you got me really curious about these. What is its sound signature like and what’s its strengths?


----------



## Slater

Jupiterknight said:


> I have bought many pairs of mh755 from this US seller and so far all original.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-So...s-Earphones-For-SBH20-iPod-MP3/361884429431?h



Yeah, I’ve used that guy too. Totally legit.


----------



## Slater (May 30, 2019)

macky112 said:


> Now you got me really curious about these. What is its sound signature like and what’s its strengths?



It’s signature is the Harman curve.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/acoustic-basis-harman-listener-target-curve

It’s strength is really good sound for a ridiculous price. You won’t find anything better for the price.


----------



## Podster (May 30, 2019)

ANYTHING 





Slater said:


> Yeah, I’ve used that guy too. Totally legit.



Well he does state right in his ad to beware of fakes Pods kind of partial to the Burnt Orange tips





Won't find ANYTHING sounding better for the price! Easy Cowboy


----------



## B9Scrambler

Nimweth said:


> What is the difference between the "original" model and the new one, and how do I know which one I have?



These are the visual differences between mine: old post.


----------



## HungryPanda

Zune said:


> Thanks Slater!
> 
> I certainly have, i got a HiBy R6 for my birthday today. The JCally balanced cable arrived today too. Just waiting on the KZ IEMs now.


Yeah welcome to head-fi and that is a cool start to entering the rabbit hole


----------



## mbwilson111

Nimweth said:


> Thanks. I'll know what to expect!



I love my ED9 with the dull brass filter as I do like a more balanced sound signature.


----------



## Nimweth

mbwilson111 said:


> I love my ED9 with the dull brass filter as I do like a more balanced sound signature.


Yes, that's my preference too. I'm really enjoying my T3s at the moment, wonderful neutral signature and clean silky treble!


----------



## Nimweth

B9Scrambler said:


> These are the visual differences between mine: old post.


Thanks. As soon as I get nine I'll look inside the nozzles!


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> It’s signature is the Harman curve.
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response
> 
> ...



Yay the evolution of more bass!


----------



## paulwasabii

moisespr123 said:


> that's interesting. I thought the S10 version was the same as the S9 but just white? The S9 sounds great and I was using them until I got the ZS7.


I definitely did not A/B them but I had used the grey S8 & S9 on occasion.  I remember when my S10 arrived, I tried them once and did not like them.  Probably a bad day or they weren't sitting properly but I never tried them again. But you are right, on the packaging of the two, one number is the same and one is not.  Could be the same just dressed in white.  I never went back when the Galaxy buds finally arrived, but maybe I will try them again


----------



## paulwasabii

paulwasabii said:


> I definitely did not A/B them but I had used the grey S8 & S9 on occasion.  I remember when my S10 arrived, I tried them once and did not like them.  Probably a bad day or they weren't sitting properly but I never tried them again. But you are right, on the packaging of the two, one number is the same and one is not.  Could be the same just dressed in white.  I never went back when the Galaxy buds finally arrived, but maybe I will try them again



OK, the s9 and s10 earbuds are not the same.  If you think the S9 sound great, remember what Royals by Lorde sounds like on your S9 earbuds and try the ZS7.  There is almost no low end on the S9, but it is improved on the s10 buds.  I think the ZS7 will crush both and you will get to hear the other lower half of the music you have been missing all this time,


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 30, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Yeah welcome to head-fi and that is a cool start to entering the rabbit hole


When you can't get out of the rabbit hole you've become a ground hog.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Cevisi said:


> They are badass i showed a friend of mine the t2 whit complys occ cable and es 100. He is a non audiophile doesent now anything about iems. And he says mine are better and cost 8 dollars. He put some mh755 out jacked into his phone and ler me listen i was blown away they where really better.
> 
> But where to find orginal ones. Every offer says "orignal 100% no fake" delivered from china


There is a review on Headfi that says the Moondrop Crescent are an improvement over the Sony MH755's.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Podster said:


> Well on the original model you will or should find the dull gold one to be smoother and the shiny brass one may be just a little bright for you and I'd suggest a warm player or maybe some EQ reduction of the top end but with that said at low volumes you'll get gobs of detail out of the brass filter.
> 
> On the newer model you'll hear less of both if that makes since!
> 
> By the way did you order the Chrome or Black version?


So the original ED9 sounds different than the newer revision and the chrome and black models sound different as well (maybe?)?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (May 30, 2019)

SiggyFraud said:


> Maybe you should give ED9 a try? Based on countless positive opinions here on Head-Fi I ordered a pair about a week ago. I've got many "better" IEMs, but ED9 seems to be a real legend around here.


No idea why the ED9 are legends. They fall out of my ears like they are heavy barbells. I need my girlfriend to push them into my ears and hold them in while I listen to music and sometimes she's doing that for hours.


----------



## Jupiterknight

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No idea why the ED9 are legends. They fall out of my ears like they are heavy barbells. I need my girlfriend to push them into my ears and hold them in while I listen to music and sometimes she's doing that for hours.



I certainly hope you return that favor and for hours


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No idea why the ED9 are legends. They fall out of my ears like they are heavy barbells. I need my girlfriend to push them into my ears and hold them in while I listen to music and sometimes she's doing that for hours.



She’s a keeper dude, wait till she finds out you could have been wearing them over ear all this time! Best have a dozen roses when you break that news to her

Yes, B9 posted a picture if both the chrome original and the black newer version.


----------



## hakuzen (May 31, 2019)

reorganized my list of cables for KZs (below $40, most below $25), and added 2 new cables, *051* (grey spc 8 cores, similar to 052) and *059* (new kz spc 8 cores silver+gold color).
also added some pics and removed others, changed some comments (trn cable *056*), and stated more clearly which cables have type C (zsn) termination available.

*059*. kz spc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,tC): 281..278..250..255..[17.9g]
kz upgrade cable.
structure: 0.05mm*25(30awg)*8c, equivalent to 27AWG per signal. silver color alloy plated + gold color alloy plated ofc (of course it's not true silver and gold plated).
terminations available: 2pins type A (0.75mm), type C (zsn, 0.75mm), mmcx.
only 3.5mm jack (single end) found.
it uses more even spc wires (silver color alloy plated and gold color alloy plated ofc copper) than last kz cable (058), so you don't find so high and random resistance difference.
good conductivity for the price, decent jack, good strain reliefs, it's last and best upgrade cable made by kz now.


----------



## courierdriver

Zune said:


> Thanks Slater!
> 
> I certainly have, i got a HiBy R6 for my birthday today. The JCally balanced cable arrived today too. Just waiting on the KZ IEMs now.


Nice birthday gift! Congrats! Is it the R6 or R6 Pro? Also, what KZ are you putting your balanced JCally cable on? I have a JCally balanced 2.5 on my ZS10 PRO and it sounds great out of my Fiio Q1MK2 linked to my phone.


----------



## courierdriver

neo_styles said:


> Damnit...should have thought of that before I tossed 'em. Oh well.
> 
> FWIW, _Songs from the Big Chair_ is sounding mighty fine on the ED16 today. No complaints.


Is that Tears For Fears?


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No idea why the ED9 are legends. They fall out of my ears like they are heavy barbells. I need my girlfriend to push them into my ears and hold them in while I listen to music and sometimes she's doing that for hours.


She holds them in while you listen to music??!! What else is she holding, and may I borrow her??!! Lol!


----------



## Veyska

Hrm.  I think I do want one of KZ's new cables, but KZ doesn't have any listed and I'm wary of buying from any other vendors given the first-batch QC issues (maybe the CCA store), and now my brain's going ooooooh AS10 or maybe try the CCA A10 or maybe cheaping out and getting the AS06 and the middle of those two would require C-style ends and oh yeah my brain also remembered I also am really tempted by the Sennheiser IE 40 Pro (if they'd had a demo model in their SF store I'd probably have impulse bought one if it had sounded good)...  >->


----------



## khighly

neo_styles said:


> In WA, that carries a very different connotation. Can neither confirm nor deny I've "baked in" a few new pairs of KZs and over-ears. Listening impressions were...enhanced.


I bake in all of my IEM's


----------



## Slater

hakuzen said:


> reorganized my list of cables for KZs (below $40, most below $25), and added 2 new cables, *051* (grey spc 8 cores, similar to 052) and *059* (new kz spc 8 cores silver+gold color).
> also added some pics and removed others, changed some comments (trn cable *056*), and stated more clearly which cables have type C (zsn) termination available.
> 
> *059*. kz spc 8c (silver+gold,oyde,tC): 281..278..250..255..[17.9g]
> ...



Thanks buddy, I've been waiting for you to give the all clear on this cable. I've purposely avoided the previous bi-color (copper/silver) KZ cables, but this one looks like they finally got everything sorted out!


----------



## voicemaster

My purple zs10 pro just came. Now I have a backup when either bt3 or bt20 is charging up.


----------



## khighly (May 31, 2019)

I think ZS10 Pro is better than ZS7, but ZS7 still a superior sound signature to me personally. The bass slam for EDM is untouchable by the ZS10 Pro. When I listen to J:Kenzo playing some UK Dubplate on Rinse FM, the ZS10 just doesn't cut it for me personally . ZS7 Pro is very welcome, keeping it's giant low end hopefully!

IMO, the ZS10 Pro's sound much better with the vent at the DD covered with electrical tape. They become ZS7 competitor (to me, others not so bass friendly probably find the ZS10 Pro a ZS7 killer). Not sure of the long term effects of doing this though, doesn't seem like anything is wrong with them when doing it.


----------



## gourab1995

Any good eartip suggestions for a 5mm bore other than spinfits? (Preferably cheap)


----------



## Zune

courierdriver said:


> Nice birthday gift! Congrats! Is it the R6 or R6 Pro? Also, what KZ are you putting your balanced JCally cable on? I have a JCally balanced 2.5 on my ZS10 PRO and it sounds great out of my Fiio Q1MK2 linked to my phone.



Thanks! It's just the R6 but with a 256GB SD Card, KZ ATR, KZ ZS10 Pro, JCally Cable, Bluetooth FM Tansmitter for the car and a replace cable for some over ear headphones to get them up and running. The wifes done good this year  She's just sorry the KZ's haven't arrived in time, bless her cotton socks.

The balanced cable is for the ZS10 Pro and judging by your comment and others on here i'm in for a treat. I can't wait!


----------



## archdawg

Just ran into this on the "Home Made IEMs" thread - Post 1436 - Oct, 12 2012
"Sooner or later, some Chinese company is going to roll out with a sub-$100 dual-BA universal IEM. I can just smell it."

Nice sense of smell, buddy ...keep it up!


----------



## RikudouGoku

What are the noozle size for the ZS10 Pro? Just ordered one and want to try som spinfits for the first time as I had used New Bee foams before. Will probably buy one single flange and one double flange to try them out but do not know which ones to pick. CP100, CP240 or CP100. I use Large size for all my eartips so Probably gonna be large for spinfits too.


----------



## shockdoc

voicemaster said:


> My purple zs10 pro just came. Now I have a backup when either bt3 or bt20 is charging up.



Which TWS 'phones are those in your photo? Just got my wife a pair for Mother's Day and she LOVES them.


----------



## gourab1995 (May 31, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> What are the noozle size for the ZS10 Pro? Just ordered one and want to try som spinfits for the first time as I had used New Bee foams before. Will probably buy one single flange and one double flange to try them out but do not know which ones to pick. CP100, CP240 or CP100. I use Large size for all my eartips so Probably gonna be large for spinfits too.



I have the zs7 and zsn pro. All the bore sizes seem to be about 5mm. I would suggest the spinfit cp145 (4.5mm bore) right now. Also make sure to check out the size, there is a difference of 1mm in width going from small, medium to large (11.5, 12.5 & 13.5)

Also still am on the lookout for alternatives maybe similar to the JVC spiral dots. But they are a bit pricey for eartips.


----------



## TechnoidFR

khighly said:


> I think ZS10 Pro is better than ZS7, but ZS7 still a superior sound signature to me personally. The bass slam for EDM is untouchable by the ZS10 Pro. When I listen to J:Kenzo playing some UK Dubplate on Rinse FM, the ZS10 just doesn't cut it for me personally . ZS7 Pro is very welcome, keeping it's giant low end hopefully!
> 
> IMO, the ZS10 Pro's sound much better with the vent at the DD covered with electrical tape. They become ZS7 competitor (to me, others not so bass friendly probably find the ZS10 Pro a ZS7 killer). Not sure of the long term effects of doing this though, doesn't seem like anything is wrong with them when doing it.



I'm agree with you, i love the smooth side of the ZS7, ZS10 Pro is less fun, and lullaby ( or rocking ? don't know which word used ). The ZS7 is clearly my prefered KZ, great combo with C16. if you search the enhance of ZS7, go Yin Topaz ( in my description ).


----------



## Podster

So crazy how far the hobby not to mention budget Chi-Fi has come in just a few short years and of course a lot is owed to this community as a whole. This little sub <$40 setup sounds amazing and this is yet another pair of KZ's that kind of got brushed to the side with the rapid releases during this period but they and this rig sounds amazing






Especially compared to one of my starter systems that cost me close to twice as much





and these pretty POS's LOL


----------



## RikudouGoku (May 31, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> I have the zs7 and zsn pro. All the bore sizes seem to be about 5mm. I would suggest the spinfit cp145 (4.5mm bore) right now. Also make sure to check out the size, there is a difference of 1mm in width going from small, medium to large (11.5, 12.5 & 13.5)
> 
> Also still am on the lookout for alternatives maybe similar to the JVC spiral dots. But they are a bit pricey for eartips.


OK thanks, but which one do you recommend for double flange

Edit: and I'm guessing that the cp145 is an upgraded version of the cp100?


----------



## gourab1995

RikudouGoku said:


> OK thanks, but which one do you recommend for double flange



Not too sure about the double flange ones. I don't use them. But cp 220 looks good rather than 240 because of the slightly wider bore size. Cp240=4mm cp220=4.4mm.

I like tips that are closest to the bore size of the iem, it doesn't alter the sound too much. Also helps maintain a clear and wide stage.


----------



## RikudouGoku (May 31, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> Not too sure about the double flange ones. I don't use them. But cp 220 looks good rather than 240 because of the slightly wider bore size. Cp240=4mm cp220=4.4mm.
> 
> I like tips that are closest to the bore size of the iem, it doesn't alter the sound too much. Also helps maintain a clear and wide stage.


I use Large tips for foams and past silicone ones and the CP220 does not have Large only Medium.

Edit: oh and the CP155 looks better for me since its longer and might be better seal than the CP145


----------



## gourab1995 (May 31, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> I use Large tips for foams and past silicone ones and the CP220 does not have Large only Medium.
> 
> Edit: oh and the CP155 looks better for me since its longer and might be better seal than the CP145



I wouldn't risk getting bigger bore size than that the iem has. Then it would be too loose and fall off easily. Might want to ask the seller if it will be ok with 5mm bore iems.


----------



## voicemaster

shockdoc said:


> Which TWS 'phones are those in your photo? Just got my wife a pair for Mother's Day and she LOVES them.



Samsung galaxy buds


----------



## Caipirina

Podster said:


> So crazy how far the hobby not to mention budget Chi-Fi has come in just a few short years and of course a lot is owed to this community as a whole. This little sub <$40 setup sounds amazing and this is yet another pair of KZ's that kind of got brushed to the side with the rapid releases during this period but they and this rig sounds amazing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makes me feel like kicking it old-school tonight.  Those EDR2 have not graced my ear canals in quite a while.  And still impressive for a 9$ IEM!


Maybe I should invest in a new DAP some day?


----------



## RikudouGoku

gourab1995 said:


> I wouldn't risk getting bigger bore size than that the iem has. Then it would be too loose and fall off easily. Might want to ask the seller if it will be ok with 5mm bore iems.


Ok Thanks will ask the seller. Is it worth waiting for 2 weeks for the summer sale to start on aliexpress or should i just order it right now?


----------



## gourab1995 (May 31, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> Ok Thanks will ask the seller. Is it worth waiting for 2 weeks for the summer sale to start on aliexpress or should i just order it right now?



Since these are eartips, might make difference of a dollar or 2. So your call on that if it's worth the wait. (☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞


----------



## BadReligionPunk (May 31, 2019)

Podster said:


> and these pretty POS's LOL


Dem tings look fyah Mon! You gwan bun Babylon down wit dem tings Mon.





Seriously. What are they lol? They look dope.


----------



## Podster (May 31, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Makes me feel like kicking it old-school tonight.  Those EDR2 have not graced my ear canals in quite a while.  And still impressive for a 9$ IEM!
> 
> 
> Maybe I should invest in a new DAP some day?



Yep, these DT5's are good but I believe the EDR2's were a little more detaled





You out there @mbwilson111 ? Came across this while perusing the old photo bank and thought of you and your Bud collection! These are still my fave bud and maybe one of the best bargains in portable eva





@BadReligionPunk , Skull Candies, Best Buy $9.99 but they look waaaaaaay better than they sound


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Haha. Nice. I got my rasta wife a few pairs of Marley earphones. She loves them, and they have one that looks like that. 

Easy to open? Think a Sony mh755 driver would work in there?


----------



## Zune

My new ZS10 Pro has just been delivered. JCally balanced cable has been attached and just tried them. Holy &*^%! I'm stunned. Considering i've been listening to a Zune through generic ear buds for over a decade The HiBy R6 through IEMs sound incredible. The next step will be to put some lossless files on to try.

The bass is unbelievable and the sound stage is so much wider. I've tried three tracks from three different genres but my favourite guitar solo of all time now sounds even more powerful. Right i've got some serious listening to do!


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> Haha. Nice. I got my rasta wife a few pairs of Marley earphones. She loves them, and they have one that looks like that.
> 
> Easy to open? Think a Sony mh755 driver would work in there?



I think it would be cool if Sony just did an mh755 version like these, I've often wondered how those Marley phones sounded




















I have been contemplating using my right side red ZS6 with the Green left side, black tips with the TRN silver Yellow cable for a Irie KZ pair


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> You out there @mbwilson111 ? Came across this while perusing the old photo bank and thought of you and your Bud collection! These are still my fave bud and maybe one of the best bargains in portable eva



What does it say on that black one?


----------



## macky112

I just received the ZS7, but I thought it’s supposed to come with a total of 4 pairs of tips?

I only received 3, a spare mid star lines and a spare small starlines, and a pair of preindtalled but lobsided starlibes?!


----------



## B9Scrambler

macky112 said:


> I just received the ZS7, but I thought it’s supposed to come with a total of 4 pairs of tips?
> 
> I only received 3, a spare mid star lines and a spare small starlines, and a pair of preindtalled but lobsided starlibes?!



What you got is correct. ZS7 only comes with the three pairs of Starlines. The large ones looked pretty messed up though :S


----------



## eclein (May 31, 2019)

I’m following this thread and reading about tip choices so I tried a bunch of “tip rolling” and found all kinds of new sound from C16 and my M6,
Tin T3’s are arriving tomorrow and I can’t wait to hear them even more. I’ve been on headfi awhile now but since I got the BA10’s from KZ I’ve been reading everyday and you folks here have written the most useful new info and minutiae that make such extreme changes sometimes in the sound I must acknowledge it. *“Y’all ROCK” !!*

Here is an old Zen X-fi I’ve had and enjoyed very much ....anybody else got one?

 These latest QCYs are wonderful, boomy bass has smoothed way out with hardly any hours on these yet. $26 for these is really crazy inexpensive, I wonder how much ChiFi we’ll loose access to with the trade BS going on??
Welcome ZUNE enjoy the ride it gets better and better, you’ve got a fantastic start I must say!


----------



## B9Scrambler (May 31, 2019)

eclein said:


> I’m following this thread and reading about tip choices so I tried a bunch of “tip rolling” and found all kinds of new sound from C16 and my M6,
> Tin T3’s are arriving tomorrow and I can’t wait to hear them even more. I’ve been on headfi awhile now but since I got the BA10’s from KZ I’ve been reading everyday and you folks here have written the most useful new info and minutiae that make such extreme changes sometimes in the sound I must acknowledge it. *“Y’all ROCK” !!*
> 
> Here is an old Zen X-fi I’ve had and enjoyed very much ....anybody else got one?
> ...



Those QCYs look very similar to the SoundPEATS TrueFree+ which I am in the midst of writing up a review for. They really are fantastic. Fun v-shaped signature with excellent bass. Impressed with how low they go. None of the early roll off that was common with earlier wireless stuff. These are slappers for sure.



Edit: Oh yeah, KZ thread. Uhhhh.....ain't the ZS7 a gem?


----------



## Caipirina

RikudouGoku said:


> Ok Thanks will ask the seller. Is it worth waiting for 2 weeks for the summer sale to start on aliexpress or should i just order it right now?



Summer SALE???  

(I think I vaguely recall from last year, but was not impressed by the ‘savings’ )


----------



## Podster (May 31, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> What does it say on that black one?



Maybe you can make this one out more, I'm not sure but I believe this is what is referred to as the Monk, Monk 8, Monk 12 and even Monk Plus but I think it's just one of the stamps that VE used on them So you now have me so curious I've emailed Lee to verify









Yes @B9Scrambler ZS7's are like little Blue Diamonds





 It's like whoever knew the "R" in there stood for Ridiculously good bass


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> Maybe you can make this one out more, I'm not sure but I believe this is what is referred to as the Monk, Monk 8, Monk 12 and even Monk Plus but I think it's just one of the stamps that VE used on them So you now have me so curious I've emailed Lee to verify



I tried a search for 52VE.CN and it does seem to be an earlier monk... also that other one you have also seems older.  I don't think either are the Monk Plus ... unless that red one is an early Monk Plus like when Massdrop first did them?
I just have the regular Monk Plus in purple, coffee and clear.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> I tried a search for 52VE.CN and it does seem to be an earlier monk... also that other one you have also seems older.  I don't think either are the Monk Plus ... unless that red one is an early Monk Plus like when Massdrop first did them?
> I just have the regular Monk Plus in purple, coffee and clear.



I love the "Just" part of that Always thought the clear ones were cool, like I said I see a lot of the 52VE.CN under Monk images and have no doubt they are true Monks but hopefully Lee will give me the lowdown on all the specifics of this one Just cause I feel like I'm pooping in the thread A little KZ class


----------



## CYoung234

So, I received my CCA C16's the other day, here in rainy Paraguay. First impressions are that I still prefer my regular ZS10's. I am using the C16s with the flat silver braided KZ upgrade cable and medium Auvios, as the 3.5mm jack on the stock cable does not fit my phone very well. I still need to do a bunch more listening and comparing. I have not listened to any classical yet, for example. I have been listening to a lot of m83 lately....


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Podster said:


> I think it would be cool if Sony just did an mh755 version like these, I've often wondered how those Marley phones sounded
> 
> 
> 
> ...


some Marley's are really good. Some bad. I collect the headphones. Most are bass heavy and rolled off treble with a smooth presentation. Its like they were made with reggae music in mind. 

The kz idea is sweet. I bought the bamboo ed7 with the idea to hand paint them rasta color.


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> some Marley's are really good. Some bad. I collect the headphones. Most are bass heavy and rolled off treble with a smooth presentation. Its like they were made with reggae music in mind.
> 
> The kz idea is sweet. I bought the bamboo ed7 with the idea to hand paint them rasta color.



Hmm, Reggae in mind or made by Beats Nice plan on the 7's (I refer to them as my Bamboo Warriors or Wood-Z's) Good candidates





Would (Wood) have been perfect if the left channel ring had just been bright green instead of that blue right


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

B9Scrambler said:


> Oh yeah, KZ thread. Uhhhh.....ain't the ZS7 a gem?


Not to one guy, he changed the blue ZS7 face plate to the black ZS6 one.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

CYoung234 said:


> So, I received my CCA C16's the other day, here in rainy Paraguay. First impressions are that I still prefer my regular ZS10's. I am using the C16s with the flat silver braided KZ upgrade cable and medium Auvios.


That comment is going to cause a huge amount of uproar and possibly a Head-Fi riot.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That comment is going to cause a huge amount of uproar and possibly a Head-Fi riot.



No it won't.  We are all allowed to like what we like  I like my old ZS10 and am not particularly interested in getting a C16.   I have a couple of single driver iems on the way


----------



## B9Scrambler

CYoung234 said:


> So, I received my CCA C16's the other day, here in rainy Paraguay. First impressions are that I still prefer my regular ZS10's. I am using the C16s with the flat silver braided KZ upgrade cable and medium Auvios, as the 3.5mm jack on the stock cable does not fit my phone very well. I still need to do a bunch more listening and comparing. I have not listened to any classical yet, for example. I have been listening to a lot of m83 lately....



Original ZS10 is a boss.


----------



## CYoung234

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That comment is going to cause a huge amount of uproar and possibly a Head-Fi riot.


Probably... It is still very early, and my ZS10 Pros are still in transit...


----------



## TheVortex

Podster said:


> So crazy how far the hobby not to mention budget Chi-Fi has come in just a few short years and of course a lot is owed to this community as a whole. This little sub <$40 setup sounds amazing and this is yet another pair of KZ's that kind of got brushed to the side with the rapid releases during this period but they and this rig sounds amazing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Off topic a bit but what is that black dap and iem's in the first image?


----------



## macky112

B9Scrambler said:


> What you got is correct. ZS7 only comes with the three pairs of Starlines. The large ones looked pretty messed up though :S



Aw... =*(

On a positive note, I am liking the sound signature of the ZS7 alot, like, ALOT!


----------



## Podster

TheVortex said:


> Off topic a bit but what is that black dap and iem's in the first image?



The DAP is the new Benjie X6 and the iem's are the KZ DT5's released I believe 5-6 years ago and now out of production.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997310800.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.45c24c4dfJ8muN

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32360990338.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dEWnorf


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I love the "Just" part of that Always thought the clear ones were cool, like I said I see a lot of the 52VE.CN under Monk images and have no doubt they are true Monks but hopefully Lee will give me the lowdown on all the specifics of this one Just cause I feel like I'm pooping in the thread A little KZ class



What kind of case is that? Pretty cool! Is it made specifically for that DAP, or did it just happen to fit perfectly like that?


----------



## auraldesire95

I’ve really been enjoying my ZST’s, so thank you to all the people in this thread.

I’m excited to receive the ZSN soon!


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> It’s signature is the Harman curve.
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response
> 
> ...



In terms of SQ, does mh755 get close to your KZ Top 5 list?


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> In terms of SQ, does mh755 get close to your KZ Top 5 list?



Well, I really like dynamics over hybrids. To me they sound more natural, more accurate, and less artificial. Since pretty much everything KZ makes is now hybrids or all-BA IEMs, it’s hard to compare.

But yeah, for my personal preferences (taking into account my sound profile and genres preferences), the MH755 definitely ranks high on my list.

Be aware that not everyone likes the same stuff though. Some like flat as a pancake, w shaped, etc tuning. 

And the MH755 (and most KZs) are not that.

But clearly the Harman folks knew what they were doing, because the tuning they developed (designed to appeal to most people) fits my preferences. I’m in that average bell curve for sure.


----------



## Slater (May 31, 2019)

So what’s the word on the 20 driver? Anyone know any secrets yet?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

macky112 said:


> Aw... =*(
> 
> On a positive note, I am liking the sound signature of the ZS7 alot, like, ALOT!


I'm loving the AS10 today. With so many KZ's in my stash, its nice to compare them.


----------



## macky112 (May 31, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm loving the AS10 today. With so many KZ's in my stash, its nice to compare them.



Well i am a basshead, and I enjoy music as much as movies and gaming, so gimme that deep sub bass, mid clarity, relaxed treble but with good separation, so yeah, seems like ZS7 fits the bill pretty well

I guess all these time, I was subconsciously looking for an IEM version of the TH-X00 (although X00 doesn’t have much treble roll off)

Out of all of the ‘phones in my sig, I least prefer the 6XX because it’s got the lightest bass, lol


----------



## voicemaster

macky112 said:


> Well i am a basshead, and I enjoy music as much as movies and gaming, so gimme that deep sub bass, mid clarity, relaxed treble but with good separation, so yeah, seems like ZS7 fits the bill pretty well
> 
> I guess all these time, I was subconsciously looking for an IEM version of the TH-X00 (although X00 doesn’t have much treble roll off)
> 
> Out of all of the ‘phones in my sig, I least prefer the 6XX because it’s got the lightest bass, lol



You will love zs7.


----------



## courierdriver

Zune said:


> Thanks! It's just the R6 but with a 256GB SD Card, KZ ATR, KZ ZS10 Pro, JCally Cable, Bluetooth FM Tansmitter for the car and a replace cable for some over ear headphones to get them up and running. The wifes done good this year  She's just sorry the KZ's haven't arrived in time, bless her cotton socks.
> 
> The balanced cable is for the ZS10 Pro and judging by your comment and others on here i'm in for a treat. I can't wait!


Yeah, ZS10 PRO is phenomenal for the price. Hope you enjoy it with your new cable and DAP. Let us know your thoughts when you have had a chance to get familiar with everything.


----------



## courierdriver

Zune said:


> My new ZS10 Pro has just been delivered. JCally balanced cable has been attached and just tried them. Holy &*^%! I'm stunned. Considering i've been listening to a Zune through generic ear buds for over a decade The HiBy R6 through IEMs sound incredible. The next step will be to put some lossless files on to try.
> 
> The bass is unbelievable and the sound stage is so much wider. I've tried three tracks from three different genres but my favourite guitar solo of all time now sounds even more powerful. Right i've got some serious listening to do!


Glad to see that you are enjoying this set, and your new setup. Enjoy your music!


----------



## courierdriver

B9Scrambler said:


> What you got is correct. ZS7 only comes with the three pairs of Starlines. The large ones looked pretty messed up though :S


Yeah, totally agree. Those tips look like they have been food processor!


----------



## courierdriver

macky112 said:


> Aw... =*(
> 
> On a positive note, I am liking the sound signature of the ZS7 alot, like, ALOT!


----------



## courierdriver

TechnoidFR said:


> I'm agree with you, i love the smooth side of the ZS7, ZS10 Pro is less fun, and lullaby ( or rocking ? don't know which word used ). The ZS7 is clearly my prefered KZ, great combo with C16. if you search the enhance of ZS7, go Yin Topaz ( in my description ).


Geez, you guys! I love my ZS10 PRO  but from everything I've been reading on this thread...I might have to buy the ZS7 too. Damnit!


----------



## courierdriver

eclein said:


> I’m following this thread and reading about tip choices so I tried a bunch of “tip rolling” and found all kinds of new sound from C16 and my M6,
> Tin T3’s are arriving tomorrow and I can’t wait to hear them even more. I’ve been on headfi awhile now but since I got the BA10’s from KZ I’ve been reading everyday and you folks here have written the most useful new info and minutiae that make such extreme changes sometimes in the sound I must acknowledge it. *“Y’all ROCK” !!*
> 
> Here is an old Zen X-fi I’ve had and enjoyed very much ....anybody else got one?
> ...


I still have an old Zen Micro 5g. Does that count?


----------



## macky112

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, totally agree. Those tips look like they have been food processor!




 
 

Ya don’t think these gonna return back to normal shape lol


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> Ya don’t think these gonna return back to normal shape lol



I’m sure there’s someone out there whose ears would fit those perfectly!


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> The DAP is the new Benjie X6 and the iem's are the KZ DT5's released I believe 5-6 years ago and now out of production.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997310800.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.45c24c4dfJ8muN
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32360990338.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dEWnorf


I checked it out, but not alot of info. Does this thing do DSD? Can you use a bigger SD card than the 128g it says? Is the USB out also a USB audio out? I'd love to buy this, and hook it up via USB to my Fiio Q1MK2, instead of my smartphone.


----------



## TechnoidFR

courierdriver said:


> I checked it out, but not alot of info. Does this thing do DSD? Can you use a bigger SD card than the 128g it says? Is the USB out also a USB audio out? I'd love to buy this, and hook it up via USB to my Fiio Q1MK2, instead of my smartphone.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> I have zishan ak4497eq and Z3. Shanling m0 too
> ...


----------



## Veyska (Jun 1, 2019)

Veyska said:


> Hrm.  I think I do want one of KZ's new cables, but KZ doesn't have any listed and I'm wary of buying from any other vendors given the first-batch QC issues (maybe the CCA store), and now my brain's going ooooooh AS10 or maybe try the CCA A10 or maybe cheaping out and getting the AS06 and the middle of those two would require C-style ends and oh yeah my brain also remembered I also am really tempted by the Sennheiser IE 40 Pro (if they'd had a demo model in their SF store I'd probably have impulse bought one if it had sounded good)...  >->


KZ _still_ hasn't re-listed their Aptx HD/Bluetooth 5.0 module on their own store.  *headscratch*  Maybe I'll message one of the other stores that still has it listed and ask if they are stocking the fixed version so that worst case if I get a lemon I can go hey you promised no lemons and hopefully get something other than citrus.  Hm.

(And yes I know I'm being a tad impatient, but the sooner I lock down an order the sooner I can stop window-shopping incompatible IEMs.  Also they're still advertising it on their storefront but the link is dead.)


----------



## Mybutthurts

mbwilson111 said:


> No it won't.  We are all allowed to like what we like  I like my old ZS10 and am not particularly interested in getting a C16.   I have a couple of single driver iems on the way



This +1.

Not interested in either the CCA or KZ *16 models, as Brit on a pension can't afford them anyways

I still use the original ZS10 as a late evening listen...it mellows me out.
If I use it during the day then i use my FIIO A3 amp with them.


----------



## crabdog

Mybutthurts said:


> This +1.
> 
> Not interested in either the CCA or KZ *16 models, as Brit on a pension can't afford them anyways
> 
> ...


Well, this will make you feel better about not being able to afford the AS16. Enjoy!
https://primeaudio.org/kz-as16-review-less-for-more/


----------



## Mybutthurts

crabdog said:


> Well, this will make you feel better about not being able to afford the AS16. Enjoy!
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-as16-review-less-for-more/



Law of diminishing returns.

Yes, and it makes me feel better...


----------



## mbwilson111

macky112 said:


> Ya don’t think these gonna return back to normal shape lol



Put them in a tea cup and pour really hot water over them and let them soak til it is cool... maybe that would do something.  I would certainly try it.   Really curious now...


----------



## KimChee

ZS7 and CCA C16 is a hell of a combo.



courierdriver said:


> Geez, you guys! I love my ZS10 PRO  but from everything I've been reading on this thread...I might have to buy the ZS7 too. Damnit!


----------



## randomnin

archdawg said:


> Just ran into this on the "Home Made IEMs" thread - Post 1436 - Oct, 12 2012
> "Sooner or later, some Chinese company is going to roll out with a sub-$100 dual-BA universal IEM. I can just smell it."
> 
> Nice sense of smell, buddy ...keep it up!


I smell something too! I think it's corpse. I know, because recently I was out gravedigging too, and found myself wanting to give a like to a cadaver from 2010. We might have too much time on our hands is my humble conclusion.



Slater said:


> So what’s the word on the 20 driver? Anyone know any secrets yet?


The dark secret is that giving a driver for each kilohertz is discrimination. It's kilo-identitarian politics and we'll have none of it! Every little forgotten Hertz deserves its own driver! Revolution!!!


----------



## Jecht Auron

Finally got to try out my new bees tips on  my ZS10 pro. Must say the sound is so much better and finally get a good seal. Still trying them out and granted I must use apps like apple music and amazon music for my songs. So quality isnt as good. Still everything sounds good and can even hear the stuff I couldn't hear with my shure 215s. Even the bass is good but not overpowering. I still get like wierd feedback on a few songs. Like instruments fighting over who's more dominant.  

Over all I do like them and even brought out my portable dac I have and connected it through the usb connector on my note 9 phone. It's a teac HA-P50SE. I dont know if it's good or bad but sounds better than using the headphone jack on my phone. If you have suggestions I am all ears. I want to get a DAP so I can RIP my songs I have on disks and move them to a player. Have the Beatles box set I have on an old computer. 

I might get the new T3 to try a different iem and grow my collection. Still my wife is oblivious to my spending or should I say addiction. I will get upgraded cables for my pro. Again thanks for the help that everyone has provided. It's nice to find a group that isnt filled with elitists and willing to help out people starting out.


----------



## Mybutthurts

*@Jecht Auron*

I'm a big fan of New Bee tips, always get a good deal on the silicone tips. If you are using the silicone, then do a search on AlliX for.

5Pairs 10Pcs ear pads 

(they are in ALWUP store)

Cheap and a very good fit for me.


----------



## macky112

Plus one for the zishan, even the Z1 sounds awesome


----------



## macky112

courierdriver said:


> Geez, you guys! I love my ZS10 PRO  but from everything I've been reading on this thread...I might have to buy the ZS7 too. Damnit!



I was deciding between those two and end up buying both... ZS7 arrived first and I am loving it


----------



## moisespr123

I didn't liked the sound of the AS16. The ZS7 was nice, coming from the Samsung S9 earbuds, the signature was kind of similar, since the S9 earbuds have bass. The ZS10 Pro improved the treble but at first impressions, I noticed it lacked something in the mids, but my ears got almost used to the ZS10 Pros with their less amount of bass. The AS16 was a disapointment for me, honestly. The only good thing about it is the mids and nothing more. Lacks bass and lacks the bright treble of the ZS10 Pro. However, the AS16 have the mids the ZS10 Pro doesn't have, so KZ should focus on making an IEM that has the ZS10 treble, ZS7 bass, and AS16 mids. That would be the perfect KZ IEM for me.

Currently, I'm using the Hidizs MS4. It has a more balanced signature from the above KZ IEMs. It's more expensive, yes, but my ears like that signature better. It's similar to the ZS10 Pro, with better mids details, but a bit less treble brightness which I notice on some tracks more than on others, and has more sub-bass.

For the moment, I'm not going to get any current KZ IEM and look forward for future ones.


----------



## CYoung234

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That comment is going to cause a huge amount of uproar and possibly a Head-Fi riot.



Fair enough. I get it that you dislike the ZS10. My twin brother does not like his very much either, preferring the as10 to them. Of course, he also says that the Apple dual driver ear buds are better than either one, so go figure. Maybe I just got a very special pair, or maybe my ears do not work right...


----------



## Makahl (Jun 1, 2019)

So has the ZS7 more sub-bass rumble than ZS10 Pro? Or playing with vents the ZS10 Pro plays at the same level?


----------



## hakuzen

new thread to hold all my resistance measurements of cables. easier to find. sorry for the inconveniences.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/


----------



## KimChee (Jun 1, 2019)

I love the Zishan Z1 it’s one of my favorite players.  I like Z1 better than Z3.  I also love Walnut V2S and with ZS7, I am in budget fi bliss.



macky112 said:


> Plus one for the zishan, even the Z1 sounds awesome


----------



## Podster

courierdriver said:


> I checked it out, but not alot of info. Does this thing do DSD? Can you use a bigger SD card than the 128g it says? Is the USB out also a USB audio out? I'd love to buy this, and hook it up via USB to my Fiio Q1MK2, instead of my smartphone.



Far as I know 128 is max card but I've not put one in mine yet, as far as format it tells you in the ad all lossless formats but it's a basic $36 DAP and your not going to have DSD at that price with anyone at least not quality Also for $36 I highly doubt the Micro USB is audio out but like the card size I've not tried that, player has some decent juice though as it drives my ATH-AT900X's just fine. Not sure that I've helped you much but that's what I know so far. Now I did just post the size difference in the S5/X6 over in the Benjie thread


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> What kind of case is that? Pretty cool! Is it made specifically for that DAP, or did it just happen to fit perfectly like that?



Hey Slater, that was a Massdrop purchase from a couple years back. What I use when Kayaking or tubing with a BT DAP in it and either BT iem's but usually my waterproof portable BT speaker The Nanuk Nano is a killer case and the M3s just happened to fit in it perfect


----------



## pbui44

Podster said:


> Hey Slater, that was a Massdrop purchase from a couple years back. What I use when Kayaking or tubing with a BT DAP in it and either BT iem's but usually my waterproof portable BT speaker The Nanuk Nano is a killer case and the M3s just happened to fit in it perfect



Boy, it’s a good thing you don’t kayak with a Robin Williams fan.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 1, 2019)

moisespr123 said:


> I didn't liked the sound of the AS16. The ZS7 was nice, coming from the Samsung S9 earbuds, the signature was kind of similar, since the S9 earbuds have bass. The ZS10 Pro improved the treble but at first impressions, I noticed it lacked something in the mids, but my ears got almost used to the ZS10 Pros with their less amount of bass. The AS16 was a disapointment for me, honestly. The only good thing about it is the mids and nothing more. Lacks bass and lacks the bright treble of the ZS10 Pro. However, the AS16 have the mids the ZS10 Pro doesn't have, so KZ should focus on making an IEM that has the ZS10 treble, ZS7 bass, and AS16 mids. That would be the perfect KZ IEM for me.
> 
> Currently, I'm using the Hidizs MS4. It has a more balanced signature from the above KZ IEMs. It's more expensive, yes, but my ears like that signature better. It's similar to the ZS10 Pro, with better mids details, but a bit less treble brightness which I notice on some tracks more than on others, and has more sub-bass.
> 
> For the moment, I'm not going to get any current KZ IEM and look forward for future ones.



You might want to check out bqeyz iems. I was a little skeptical about bqeyz at first since they are not so recognized. I am coming from the KZ ZS7s super fun bass signature, relatively Bqeyz make very balanced in ears, without any funkiness, smooth trebles that are non fatiguing. Maybe because they manage sound pressure very well with vents, the bass response is at par with mids. Imaging is a class above kz. I would recommend you check out their kb100, K2 & kc2 lineup. I have the kb100 right now and am loving it.

This iem has made me think above 25 USD kz might not be so worth it.


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


> Boy, it’s a good thing you don’t kayak with a Robin Williams fan.



Nanu nanu you Shazbots


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> ZS7 and CCA C16 is a hell of a combo.


Not too interested in the C16 cause of the price and I dont think they will fit well in my ears due to the rather large size of the shells and a short looking nozzle. I like long stems and nozzles because I have deep canals but small ears. That's why I really dig the ZS10 PRO. They fit me great. I've read that the ZS7 is a bigger housing and that worries me cause I don't think they will fit properly in my ears.


----------



## courierdriver

gourab1995 said:


> You might want to check out bqeyz iems. I was a little skeptical about bqeyz at first since they are not so recognized. I am coming from the KZ ZS7s super fun bass signature, relatively Bqeyz make very balanced in ears, without any funkiness, smooth trebles that are non fatiguing. Maybe because they manage sound pressure very well with vents, the bass response is at par with mids. Imaging is a class above kz. I would recommend you check out their kb100, K2 & kc2 lineup. I have the kb100 right now and am loving it.
> 
> This iem has made me think above 25 USD kz might not be so worth it.


I had the BQEYS KC and KC2  on my radar, before I decided on ZS10 PRO. Again, I balked at buying them because I didn't think they would fit my ears well. I'm not willing to spend money on any set that isn't comfortable or a good fit for me. What good is a great sounding iem, if you can only tolerate it in your ears for half an hour, or less?


----------



## courierdriver

Jecht Auron said:


> Finally got to try out my new bees tips on  my ZS10 pro. Must say the sound is so much better and finally get a good seal. Still trying them out and granted I must use apps like apple music and amazon music for my songs. So quality isnt as good. Still everything sounds good and can even hear the stuff I couldn't hear with my shure 215s. Even the bass is good but not overpowering. I still get like wierd feedback on a few songs. Like instruments fighting over who's more dominant.
> 
> Over all I do like them and even brought out my portable dac I have and connected it through the usb connector on my note 9 phone. It's a teac HA-P50SE. I dont know if it's good or bad but sounds better than using the headphone jack on my phone. If you have suggestions I am all ears. I want to get a DAP so I can RIP my songs I have on disks and move them to a player. Have the Beatles box set I have on an old computer.
> 
> I might get the new T3 to try a different iem and grow my collection. Still my wife is oblivious to my spending or should I say addiction. I will get upgraded cables for my pro. Again thanks for the help that everyone has provided. It's nice to find a group that isnt filled with elitists and willing to help out people starting out.


I like the New Bee foams on my ZS10 PRO also. I'm still looking for a bit more in the mids and highs though, without sacrificing bass. In a couple more days, I'm pulling the plug on a couple pairs of Spinfit CP145's. Dont generally like silicone tips, but I'm willing to try these for my KZ's and my KanasPro. Many people say they are great with both these sets, so I'm gonna try them out. I'm curious to see if they sound better than the New Bees, which so far, have worked the best for me.


----------



## courierdriver

macky112 said:


> I was deciding between those two and end up buying both... ZS7 arrived first and I am loving it


I'd love to hear your thoughts when you get your Pro's. So far, I really like mine. I find the bass really good with a bit of EQ, but I'm curious to try the ZS7 to see if I really want or need more bass. I like bass, but don't consider myself a basshead or want an iem that overpowers and detracts from the other frequencies.


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> Far as I know 128 is max card but I've not put one in mine yet, as far as format it tells you in the ad all lossless formats but it's a basic $36 DAP and your not going to have DSD at that price with anyone at least not quality Also for $36 I highly doubt the Micro USB is audio out but like the card size I've not tried that, player has some decent juice though as it drives my ATH-AT900X's just fine. Not sure that I've helped you much but that's what I know so far. Now I did just post the size difference in the S5/X6 over in the Benjie thread


Thanks, friend. You have helped, and given me more knowledge than before about that Dap. Much appreciated.


----------



## KimChee

I was lucky I got C16 used for about $65, it has a longer stem, but its a big iem.  ZS10 pro fit better in my ear and was more comfortable, ZS7 is blocky and sticks out a bit.  



courierdriver said:


> Not too interested in the C16 cause of the price and I dont think they will fit well in my ears due to the rather large size of the shells and a short looking nozzle. I like long stems and nozzles because I have deep canals but small ears. That's why I really dig the ZS10 PRO. They fit me great. I've read that the ZS7 is a bigger housing and that worries me cause I don't think they will fit properly in my ears.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 2, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> I had the BQEYS KC and KC2  on my radar, before I decided on ZS10 PRO. Again, I balked at buying them because I didn't think they would fit my ears well. I'm not willing to spend money on any set that isn't comfortable or a good fit for me. What good is a great sounding iem, if you can only tolerate it in your ears for half an hour, or less?



K2 and kc2 may be hard to fit comfortably in all ears from the looks of it. Right now I have the kb100 so I can't tell for sure. But I can tell that the kb100 is wearable for long periods. They don't stick out too much and are actually curved out to lay on the ear without any sharp edges hurting. It is highly dependent on the eartips as well. I just had the soundstage narrowed and a bad fit because the tips were sitting too snugly on the bore making them stick out less. Reducing the distance between the nozzle and my ear canal. That made quite the difference in perceptible soundstage (in a bad way).

I feel like kz and bqeyz (especially kz) could do with longer nozzles. I'm pretty sure the nozzle in the Kanas pro plays a very significant role in contributing to it's lauded sound output. To this day one of the reasons I find the KZ ate to be very comfortable. Long nozzles!


----------



## archdawg (Jun 2, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> ...
> It is highly dependent on the eartips as well. I just had the soundstage narrowed and a bad fit because the tips were sitting too snugly on the bore making them stick out less. Reducing the distance between the nozzle and my ear canal. That made quite the difference in perceptible soundstage (in a bad way).
> 
> I feel like kz and bqeyz (especially kz) could with longer nozzles. I'm pretty sure the nozzle in the Kanas pro plays a very significant role in contributing to it's lauded sound output. To this day one of the reasons I find the KZ ate to be very comfortable. Long nozzles!


I never got it why KZ don't offer dedicated sets of all sorts of tips, like foamies, olives, different double and maybe triple flanges and whatnot...  they could easily make some nice extra money that way.
(I have relatively small ears and narrow, conical ear canals and use different types of wide bore double-flange silicone tips on almost all of my IEMs. If it weren't for those longer tips I'd still be stuck with cans.)


----------



## DynamicEars

received my ZS10 pro on my desk today and straight up opened it. Initial impressions they are SO GOOD, like real good, not fake-hyped good, different grade from ordinary KZ, they start it up with ZSN pro, and this "PRO" line up are so far so good. I wont do detail review, but I will write my impression later on with comparisons to few iems.


----------



## zazaboy

which kz to buy if you want the best detail retrieval and good mids .. kz zs7 or kz zs10 pro .. ?


----------



## HungryPanda

ZS10 Pro for the win


----------



## eclein

ZS10 pro is my favorite KZ IEM. 
Is anybody else thinking KZ and CCA are locking down this 4/1 or 5 driver world and cheap. The BA10 was pricey but awesome, still is but beside the C16s being good not much over 5 a side is as good as these current 5 driver configs. I listened to T3 last night and this morning then put ZS10 Pro up at the plate and they sound phenomenol. An aside on the T3’s how long are folks burning them in?? Anybody here that owns them let me know if you would.


----------



## archdawg

HungryPanda said:


> ZS10 Pro for the win


Ok, ok, ... you've won, lol - I just ordered those critters. The thing is that when they finally arrive you guys are already talking about something else again.


----------



## HungryPanda

archdawg said:


> Ok, ok, ... you've won, lol - I just ordered those critters. The thing is that when they finally arrive you guys are already talking about something else again.


 Chi-Fi is relentless


----------



## Nimweth

HungryPanda said:


> Chi-Fi is relentless


Tell me about it! ED9 and MH755 on the way at the moment.


----------



## Nimweth

eclein said:


> ZS10 pro is my favorite KZ IEM.
> Is anybody else thinking KZ and CCA are locking down this 4/1 or 5 driver world and cheap. The BA10 was pricey but awesome, still is but beside the C16s being good not much over 5 a side is as good as these current 5 driver configs. I listened to T3 last night and this morning then put ZS10 Pro up at the plate and they sound phenomenol. An aside on the T3’s how long are folks burning them in?? Anybody here that owns them let me know if you would.


I gave the T3 100 hours before writing my review and I think the top end has smoothed out more since then.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> Tell me about it! ED9 and MH755 on the way at the moment.



Dolla 4 Dolla those’ll make U Holla
May very well be the best <$20 you spend in Chi-Fi like a twofer deal deluxe


----------



## SoundChoice

archdawg said:


> Ok, ok, ... you've won, lol - I just ordered those critters. The thing is that when they finally arrive you guys are already talking about something else again.



It's the cycle of hype.


----------



## Zune

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, ZS10 PRO is phenomenal for the price. Hope you enjoy it with your new cable and DAP. Let us know your thoughts when you have had a chance to get familiar with everything.



Phenomenal is the word. Man these things rock! I'm listening to some Dvorak now and the clarity is amazing, it's as if i'm there with them. I've tried most genres of music and none have disappointed me. They excel at dance/trance. The power and depth to the sound is like nothing I've ever heard. Very addictive 

The little ATR's have today and for the price they are outstanding. I've tried them back to back with the ZS10 Pro's and they get blown out of the water which is to be expected but it's good to hear how much better they are and the ATR's are significantly better than what I've been using for years.

Overall I'm stunned you can purchase such quality sound for so little.


----------



## eclein

Zune that's why you should buckle up and hide your wallet...there is always another to try....I must have 100 iems, 5,6 headphones, multiple DAPS DACS and a main system, etc. 
Enjoy!
Ed


----------



## courierdriver

Zune said:


> Phenomenal is the word. Man these things rock! I'm listening to some Dvorak now and the clarity is amazing, it's as if i'm there with them. I've tried most genres of music and none have disappointed me. They excel at dance/trance. The power and depth to the sound is like nothing I've ever heard. Very addictive
> 
> The little ATR's have today and for the price they are outstanding. I've tried them back to back with the ZS10 Pro's and they get blown out of the water which is to be expected but it's good to hear how much better they are and the ATR's are significantly better than what I've been using for years.
> 
> Overall I'm stunned you can purchase such quality sound for so little.


Yeah, I'm actually kinda shocked at how good the ZS10 PRO sounds, and even more shocked at the strides that have been made in Chifi recently. Compared to a few years ago, the build, tech and tuning has really improved. What really blows me away is that this can be had at fairly affordable prices. I've got a renewed interest in audio again because of this, after being turned off for many years because of high prices. This newer Chifi stuff let's people get into the hobby without having to spend hundreds or thousands on a set of iems that sound great.


----------



## KimChee

Pro10...unless you get a cheap upgrade cable for the 7, it evens it out more..



zazaboy said:


> which kz to buy if you want the best detail retrieval and good mids .. kz zs7 or kz zs10 pro .. ?


----------



## KimChee

A long time ago you couldn’t get a 3 driver universal for under $400, ie Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10 (which I had made into a custom), Westone W3, Shure 535, even double driver earphones were over $200.  All the old TOTL universals like Ety ER4, and Audio Technica CK10 are history. 

Chi-Fi has come a long way and you get incredible sound especially for the price. I found myself amazed listening to C16 and ZS7, that I am listening to an 8 and 5 driver earphone that sounds amazing out of a $20 Zishan Z1, total cost <$100...and I have some higher end gear and am picky as hell about audio stuff lol.  I’ve found my end game as far as higher end portable audio goes, but I enjoy buying, selling, trying out all the new Chi-Fi offerings and it won’t break the bank.  I am trying really hard to not own 10 of these earphones as my girl already thinks I’m crazy about this hobby...





courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I'm actually kinda shocked at how good the ZS10 PRO sounds, and even more shocked at the strides that have been made in Chifi recently. Compared to a few years ago, the build, tech and tuning has really improved. What really blows me away is that this can be had at fairly affordable prices. I've got a renewed interest in audio again because of this, after being turned off for many years because of high prices. This newer Chifi stuff let's people get into the hobby without having to spend hundreds or thousands on a set of iems that sound great.


----------



## archdawg

DynamicEars said:


> . I wont do detail review, but I will write my impression later on with comparisons to few iems.


Please include the Kanas Pro, especially with regards to clarity. TIA!



HungryPanda said:


> Chi-Fi is relentless


Sure is, lol, but these days I get way more enjoyment out of most of my cheap chi-fi puppies than what I got out of my overpriced high-end rigs some 20 years ago. Besides, _technical_ differences between sub-$50 and TOTL IEMs are getting smaller by the day and once our chinese friends learn to properly configure and tune what they already have at their disposal it's just a question of one or more happy accidents and we'll get TOTL sound and some good laughs on top of that for next to nothing ... can't wait.


----------



## DynamicEars

archdawg said:


> Please include the Kanas Pro, especially with regards to clarity. TIA!



Will do. ZS10 is clear for sure, but in terms of clarity, i'm afraid they still need more years to chase Kanas Pro, but they have something that can match Kanas Pro like separation (or maybe a little bit better than Kanas Pro), and not much behind on soundstage width, smooth treble, etc.
I need to compare them in more details after I burn in my ZS10 pro (believe or not, its free, nothing to lose but some iem got advantage over burn in), Maybe BA parts wont be much affected, but DD (bass in ZS10 pro) will be tighter usually after break in.

will do comparison with CCA C10, ****, BQEYZ KB100, AS10, ZSN pro as well. Those are big names on budget chifi, wont include Tinaudio T2 since they're completely different signature.


----------



## Zune

eclein said:


> Zune that's why you should buckle up and hide your wallet...there is always another to try....I must have 100 iems, 5,6 headphones, multiple DAPS DACS and a main system, etc.
> Enjoy!
> Ed



Too late, I'm hooked!  I'm already eyeing up another DAP and some bluetooth IEMs but the two sets of KZ's and the R6 will do me for a few weeks 

and thanks I will definitely be enjoying my listening more from now on


----------



## Mybutthurts

eclein said:


> Zune that's why you should buckle up and hide your wallet...there is always another to try....I must have 100 iems, 5,6 headphones, multiple DAPS DACS and a main system, etc.
> Enjoy!
> Ed


True.

Started with an KZ ATE, and in 2 years added another 5 KZ models, a FIIO dap and amp.

And now even looking at the Fiio M11...god help us


----------



## Zune

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I'm actually kinda shocked at how good the ZS10 PRO sounds, and even more shocked at the strides that have been made in Chifi recently. Compared to a few years ago, the build, tech and tuning has really improved. What really blows me away is that this can be had at fairly affordable prices. I've got a renewed interest in audio again because of this, after being turned off for many years because of high prices. This newer Chifi stuff let's people get into the hobby without having to spend hundreds or thousands on a set of iems that sound great.



I dabbled hi end audio 25 years ago and spend a couple of grand on a hi fi and a set of head phones but lost interest because i couldn't afford what i wanted. I knew nothing about Chifi three weeks ago and i'm now genuinely excited about the possibilities again and I'll carry on following this thread closely.

Oh and excuse the username. All my usual ones were taken and i couldn't think of anything but i was plugged in to my trusty old 1st gen Zune and tried it and it was free which is hardly a surprise (I suppose they are hated on here!).


----------



## Zune

Mybutthurts said:


> True.
> 
> Started with an KZ ATE, and in 2 years added another 5 KZ models, a FIIO dap and amp.
> 
> And now even looking at the Fiio M11...god help us



God help us indeed.

I'm considering a Cowon Plenue purely for it's battery life and of course it will have to have it's own IEMs


----------



## Mybutthurts

@Zune
I was a right flat earther and into hi-fi big time and the money with it.
 But messy separation left me without any music or facilities.

So, listened to the music I already  had downloaded onto my creative vision. Which is probably older than than your Zune.

Discovered Head-fi and hooked on this hobby
Son recently dropped off the majority of my CDs which I ripped and now listen to on dap etc.
As an aside, also created a music server using Kodi and a portable hard drive.

So the madness begins.


----------



## Caipirina

Mybutthurts said:


> True.
> 
> Started with an KZ ATE, and in 2 years added another 5 KZ models, a FIIO dap and amp.
> 
> And now even looking at the Fiio M11...god help us



That sounds soooo familiar, I think the ATE was also my first KZ .. and I was not impressed. Back then I did not know that it is NOT all about the bass, no matter how cute that song is. 
I probably also had no idea just how deep I have to shove them in and that tip-rolling works wonders. 

And yes, FIIO was my first DAP as well (first Amp was a Topping) ... actually, I am listening to this nice color coordinated set up tonight, KS ZS5v1 on balanced cable, Fiio X3 II & Fiio Q1II

Totally did not appreciate the ZS5 when I got it back in the day, I was completely caught up in the hype and the special pre-sale offer  




 

I am actually quite impressed that this Fiio DAP is still going strong after 4 years !!! Have not done any battery longivity tests recently. I had a screen-scare about 6 months in and was mentally ready to chalk it up as 'you get what you pay for' ... but somehow it revived itself ... and still a joy to have!


----------



## maxxevv

Zune said:


> I dabbled hi end audio 25 years ago and spend a couple of grand on a hi fi and a set of head phones but lost interest because i couldn't afford what i wanted. I knew nothing about Chifi three weeks ago and i'm now genuinely excited about the possibilities again and I'll carry on following this thread closely.
> 
> Oh and excuse the username. All my usual ones were taken and i couldn't think of anything but i was plugged in to my trusty old 1st gen Zune and tried it and it was free which is hardly a surprise (I suppose they are hated on here!).



Wait till you discover the technical perfection that $100 headphone amps (JDS Atom) and $100 DAC's (Khadas Tone Board) have achieved over the past year.  You basically get within a hair's breadth of state of the art (without all the bells and whistles nor bling) performance at those prices !


----------



## -sandro-

HungryPanda said:


> ZS10 Pro for the win


 sound signature?


----------



## archdawg

DynamicEars said:


> Will do. ZS10 is clear for sure, but in terms of clarity, i'm afraid they still need more years to chase Kanas Pro, but they have som ething that can match Kanas Pro like separation (or maybe a little bit better than Kanas Pro), and not much behind on soundstage width, smooth treble, etc.


'More years to chase Kanas Pro' - now I'm _really_ curious!


> I need to compare them in more details after I burn in my ZS10 pro (believe or not, its free, nothing to lose but some iem got advantage over burn in), Maybe BA parts wont be much affected, but DD (bass in ZS10 pro) will be tighter usually after break in.


Over the years I've noticed some more or less significant, even drastic changes in some, not all of my cans and IEMs after my usual 100+ hours of burn-in (w. volume set at where the max.signal level (-1dB) of my trusty test tracks already results in some distortion); not only in DDs but also balanced armatures like the ubiquitous Bellsing 30095 and I'll be damned if there aren't any measurable differences.


> Will do comparison with CCA C10, ****, BQEYZ KB100, AS10, ZSN pro as well. Those are big names on budget chifi, wont include Tinaudio T2 since they're completely different signature.


Couldn't agree more on the Tin T2; definitely not my kind of fun sig but still more than OK for (pre-)mixing tracks on the road. YMMV.
Looking forward to your comparisons!


----------



## macky112

gourab1995 said:


> You might want to check out bqeyz iems. I was a little skeptical about bqeyz at first since they are not so recognized. I am coming from the KZ ZS7s super fun bass signature, relatively Bqeyz make very balanced in ears, without any funkiness, smooth trebles that are non fatiguing. Maybe because they manage sound pressure very well with vents, the bass response is at par with mids. Imaging is a class above kz. I would recommend you check out their kb100, K2 & kc2 lineup. I have the kb100 right now and am loving it.
> 
> This iem has made me think above 25 USD kz might not be so worth it.



I just checked the kb100 is around $50 though


----------



## macky112

Podster said:


> Dolla 4 Dolla those’ll make U Holla
> May very well be the best <$20 you spend in Chi-Fi like a twofer deal deluxe



I just received the ZS7 and am still waiting for the ZS10 Pro, but dude, this post is not helping... must resist!


----------



## HungryPanda

-sandro- said:


> sound signature?


 definitely V-shaped but treble is dialed back a bit from the ZS10 so easier to relax and listen to a long session


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 2, 2019)

macky112 said:


> I just checked the kb100 is around $50 though



Exactly 50 USD. To me totally worth it coming from the tin T2 and ZS7. Its the perfect middle ground between them for me in terms of tonality. Technical performance between the three is debatable. Especially between T2 and kb100. Overall kb100 sound very coherent, it's not going to sound strange while listening. That's what I like about them. Also mids are very present in contrast to zs7. And full bodied in contrast to tin T2.


----------



## -sandro-

HungryPanda said:


> definitely V-shaped but treble is dialed back a bit from the ZS10 so easier to relax and listen to a long session


Is there some kind of technical reason to why all these kind of iems are all V shaped? Some say it's the commercial signature but I really don't understand why one would prefer that to a balanced/musical one.


----------



## Slater (Jun 2, 2019)

macky112 said:


> I just checked the kb100 is around $50 though



And worth every single penny. In fact, it’s worth twice that (and some might argue 3xs that).


----------



## Slater (Jun 2, 2019)

-sandro- said:


> Is there some kind of technical reason to why all these kind of iems are all V shaped? Some say it's the commercial signature but I really don't understand why one would prefer that to a balanced/musical one.



Different strokes for different folks.

Some people prefer fast sports cars. Other prefer pickup trucks. And still others prefer an electric car, or even riding a bicycle or walking. Some people like iPhones, others Android, or flip phones, or no phone at all.

With 7+ billion people in the world, there’s a lot of different preferences.

Luckily, there’s a ridiculous amount of choices in audio, at every price point and every sound tuning. Definitely something to please everybody. We are quite fortunate to have all of these choices nowadays, vs 10 or 25 or 50 years ago


----------



## -sandro-

Slater said:


> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Some people prefer fast sports cars. Other prefer pickup trucks. And still others prefer an electric car, or even riding a bicycle or walking. Some people like iPhones, others Android, or flip phones, or no phone at all.
> 
> ...



Sure, what I meant is that it seems that the majority of them (or the best/famous) are all V-shaped. At least that's what I noticed. So a non Vshaped KZ similar to the ZS10 pro?


----------



## Slater (Jun 2, 2019)

-sandro- said:


> So a non Vshaped KZ similar to the ZS10 pro?



I’m not sure if there can be a comparison like that. If the ZS10 wasn’t v shaped, it would be a totally different earphone. It would be like asking for what pickup truck is most similar to a Corvette, or what beer is most similar to red wine.

I’d probably recommend giving the CCA C16 or TinAudio T2 a try. I have a feeling you’d like either one.

Or you could always use EQ, and make the ZS10 sound any way you want.


----------



## archdawg (Jun 2, 2019)

-sandro- said:


> Is there some kind of technical reason to why all these kind of iems are all V shaped? Some say it's the commercial signature but I really don't understand why one would prefer that to a balanced/musical one.


If you take a look at what most folks have set their equalizers at it's pretty much the same U or V shape - bass and treble up and the mids somewhere downwards. Disco, baby!


----------



## Gustavo1976

archdawg said:


> Technically (drivers > frequency responses, etc...) they're pretty different animals, the rest depends on your listening preferences and not at last your ears.
> Re. the MKP I only studied some reviews but don't think they're a significant step up sonically from some of the better sub-50€ chi-fis I already own ... YMMV.
> 
> Saludos desde Las Palmas GC


Finally Moondrop KXXS


----------



## Podster

macky112 said:


> I just received the ZS7 and am still waiting for the ZS10 Pro, but dude, this post is not helping... must resist!



Well they are nice to have in ones budget collection but IMO neither can hold a candle to the ZS7 or 10’s


----------



## khighly

One thing I really don't like about the aptX HD cable A LOT is it's length. Clearly no females were consulted in the physical design. On my Mee Audio cable, the battery & controller hang mid neck from my ears and don't sit on my shoulder in my hair, which also adds the benefit of a light weight holding down the cable around the ears and the wire close to your neck, and also adds the benefit of not having to reach into a nest of hair to change volume. The KZ cables are so frustrating for anyone with long hair. The wires are way too long.







With the BTX1, if you don't have it pulled back with the clip like that, they controls dangle comfortably. The top cable on KZ's needs to be much shorter.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> I like long stems and nozzles because I have deep canals but small ears. That's why I really dig the ZS10 PRO. They fit me great. I've read that the ZS7 is a bigger housing and that worries me cause I don't think they will fit properly in my ears.


The ZS7 fits me better than ZS's... but that's just me.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 2, 2019)

I think more people need to start talking about the ZS6 v2 even if it's not 2017. It's a good earphone.

PS: Is KZ selling old stock because it's still selling with the old cable?


----------



## CYoung234 (Jun 2, 2019)

So, I spent a few more hours comparing the ZS10 (not Pro) to my new C16's. The C16's are really starting to shine. I listened to some classical for the first time on them. Here is a guy I studied with a bit who is one of the worlds greatest orchestral trumpet players. This excerpt sounds quite a bit like how he sounds in person. The C16's really shined on this recording. On others, the ZS10 has a bit better low end, as the dynamic driver has a little more weight. The C16 low end is cleaner though. The C16 has a lot more high frequency energy. Not sibilant, but lost of energy. Oh, Auvio tips on both, and I made Neutralizer profiles for both. The C16 is actually easier to drive than the ZS10 is. I am getting really anxious to receive my ZS10 PRO.


----------



## 1clearhead

CYoung234 said:


> So, I spent a few more hours comparing the ZS10 (not Pro) to my new C16's. The C16's are really starting to shine. I listened to some classical for the first time on them. Here is a guy I studied with a bit who is one of the worlds greatest orchestral trumpet players. This excerpt sounds quite a bit like how he sounds in person. The C16's really shined on this recording. On others, the ZS10 has a bit better low end, as the dynamic driver has a little more weight. The C16 low end is cleaner though. The C16 has a lot more high frequency energy. Not sibilant, but lost of energy. Oh, Auvio tips on both, and I made Neutralizer profiles for both. The C16 is actually easier to drive than the ZS10 is. I am getting really anxious to receive my ZS10 PRO.



Please keep us posted!


----------



## Assimilator702

CYoung234 said:


> So, I spent a few more hours comparing the ZS10 (not Pro) to my new C16's. The C16's are really starting to shine. I listened to some classical for the first time on them. Here is a guy I studied with a bit who is one of the worlds greatest orchestral trumpet players. This excerpt sounds quite a bit like how he sounds in person. The C16's really shined on this recording. On others, the ZS10 has a bit better low end, as the dynamic driver has a little more weight. The C16 low end is cleaner though. The C16 has a lot more high frequency energy. Not sibilant, but lost of energy. Oh, Auvio tips on both, and I made Neutralizer profiles for both. The C16 is actually easier to drive than the ZS10 is. I am getting really anxious to receive my ZS10 PRO.




The ZS10 PRO is miles ahead of the ZS10. After a few days with the AS10 and the ZS10 I couldn't stand the ZS10. Now that I have the ZS10 PRO it's very clear that it wasn't tuned like the old model.

I just ordered the CCA A10 so I'm hoping that's an improvement of the AS10.


----------



## DynamicEars

I got this wild theory about KZ - CCA actually and why they sounds different, and they're out with new models and PRO lines :

Imagine if KZ were built by like say 3 people founders.. along with time, 1 founder (call it Mr A) would make KZ sounds more balanced to target audiophile. But the other 2 didn't agree with the idea as their signature sounds worked quite well.
then, Mr. A sadly split with other 2 Mr. B and Mr. C and build up the CCA company to make more balance "KZ" product, but he couldn't use KZ name, so instead He went with CCA. Of course he know well all the supplier and every process things.

So Mr. A was quite successful with CCA brand, with his C04,C10 and C16

Looking at Mr.A's CCA success, Mr. B and Mr. C just realize that actually balance signature were well accepted too in the market, so Mr. B and C also want to make something balance now, KZ released the PRO lines, starting with ZSN Pro, then ZS10 pro and AS16 to go head to head with CCA C16.
Mr. A want to try something better, Trying to lead the innovation with A10.

All stories above are fiction, its not real news, just my stupid wild theory


----------



## randomnin

DynamicEars said:


> I got this wild theory about KZ - CCA actually and why they sounds different, and they're out with new models and PRO lines :
> 
> Imagine if KZ were built by like say 3 people founders.. along with time, 1 founder (call it Mr A) would make KZ sounds more balanced to target audiophile. But the other 2 didn't agree with the idea as their signature sounds worked quite well.
> then, Mr. A sadly split with other 2 Mr. B and Mr. C and build up the CCA company to make more balance "KZ" product, but he couldn't use KZ name, so instead He went with CCA. Of course he know well all the supplier and every process things.
> ...


Add some beheadings, a sprinkle of incest, name it something like "Game of 'Phones" and call HBO! We gotta keep those spinoffs coming!


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> A long time ago you couldn’t get a 3 driver universal for under $400, ie Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10 (which I had made into a custom), Westone W3, Shure 535, even double driver earphones were over $200.  All the old TOTL universals like Ety ER4, and Audio Technica CK10 are history.
> 
> Chi-Fi has come a long way and you get incredible sound especially for the price. I found myself amazed listening to C16 and ZS7, that I am listening to an 8 and 5 driver earphone that sounds amazing out of a $20 Zishan Z1, total cost <$100...and I have some higher end gear and am picky as hell about audio stuff lol.  I’ve found my end game as far as higher end portable audio goes, but I enjoy buying, selling, trying out all the new Chi-Fi offerings and it won’t break the bank.  I am trying really hard to not own 10 of these earphones as my girl already thinks I’m crazy about this hobby...


Yeah, I'm looking now to upgrade my source to a good DAP. Think I have it narrowed down to an Xduoo X20 and a Fiio M11. I'm seriously looking at the X20 because it's $300 cheaper than the Fiio. The Fiio M11 has almost double the power of the X20 and 2 balanced outs. Fiio also has a better and faster UI...but geez, it's more than $600 CDN! As much as I enjoy my S8+-Q1Mk2(via OTG cable from the USB out from the phone), I'm looking for something with more high end mids and treble resolution, while retaining the bass of the Q1MK2. I need to free up my phone.


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> I got this wild theory about KZ - CCA actually and why they sounds different, and they're out with new models and PRO lines :
> 
> Imagine if KZ were built by like say 3 people founders.. along with time, 1 founder (call it Mr A) would make KZ sounds more balanced to target audiophile. But the other 2 didn't agree with the idea as their signature sounds worked quite well.
> then, Mr. A sadly split with other 2 Mr. B and Mr. C and build up the CCA company to make more balance "KZ" product, but he couldn't use KZ name, so instead He went with CCA. Of course he know well all the supplier and every process things.
> ...


LOL!...sounds believable!


----------



## courierdriver

maxxevv said:


> Wait till you discover the technical perfection that $100 headphone amps (JDS Atom) and $100 DAC's (Khadas Tone Board) have achieved over the past year.  You basically get within a hair's breadth of state of the art (without all the bells and whistles nor bling) performance at those prices !


Or a Monoprice/Monolith Liquid Spark with a Topping d10. The quality and performance of lower priced stuff is really getting off the chain.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZS7 fits me better than ZS's... but that's just me.


I've got small ears though, and I'm not certain the ZS7's would work for me. The ZS10 PRO is a great fit for me.


----------



## maxxevv

courierdriver said:


> Or a Monoprice/Monolith Liquid Spark with a Topping d10. The quality and performance of lower priced stuff is really getting off the chain.



Though the actual discernible levels might be too low for normal hearing, but in terms of measurable performance, the Atom and Liquide Spark are not even in the same ballpark. 

Liquid Spark measurements: 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-monoprice-liquid-spark-headphone-amp.5224/

JDS Atom measurements: 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/


----------



## courierdriver

DynamicEars said:


> Will do. ZS10 is clear for sure, but in terms of clarity, i'm afraid they still need more years to chase Kanas Pro, but they have something that can match Kanas Pro like separation (or maybe a little bit better than Kanas Pro), and not much behind on soundstage width, smooth treble, etc.
> I need to compare them in more details after I burn in my ZS10 pro (believe or not, its free, nothing to lose but some iem got advantage over burn in), Maybe BA parts wont be much affected, but DD (bass in ZS10 pro) will be tighter usually after break in.
> 
> will do comparison with CCA C10, ****, BQEYZ KB100, AS10, ZSN pro as well. Those are big names on budget chifi, wont include Tinaudio T2 since they're completely different signature.


I've been listening to both ZS10 PRO  and KanasPro tonight and can definitely tell a few differences. ZS10 PRO has got more midbass which helps with vocal tonality and warmth and it's a little looser than KanasPro. For bass, I'd give it slightly to the ZS10 PRO. But in almost all other areas, the KanasPro sounds more elevated to me. There's just so much more details overall. I can kind of get close using EQ on the ZS10 PRO, but even so, the KanasPro is still a lot more detailed to my ears. For me, the difference is warmth vs. resolution and mid/treble clarity. KanasPro also has a bigger soundstage. I like both sets very much, but they are both different and enjoyable in their own way. Based on what I have heard tonight, I don't think I will bother with the ZS7. Gonna enjoy the sets I have and focus on getting a better DAP in the $300-600 range.


----------



## courierdriver (Jun 3, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> Though the actual discernible levels might be too low for normal hearing, but in terms of measurable performance, the Atom and Liquide Spark are not even in the same ballpark.
> 
> Liquid Spark measurements:
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-monoprice-liquid-spark-headphone-amp.5224/
> ...


I don't rely too much on measurements. I like what my ears tell me I like. I like a bit of warmth to my sound. JDS ATOM is a nice amp, but it's a bit flat and dry sounding to me. Then again, I also like a bit of tubeiness in my amps. The Liquid Spark uses Jfets (which help give a tube sound to the amp). I like that kind of sound more. That's just my personal preference. From what I read though, the Liquid Spark was recd. Again, I dont place too much credence in measurement numbers. I like what I like.


----------



## courierdriver

archdawg said:


> 'More years to chase Kanas Pro' - now I'm _really_ curious!
> 
> Over the years I've noticed some more or less significant, even drastic changes in some, not all of my cans and IEMs after my usual 100+ hours of burn-in (w. volume set at where the max.signal level (-1dB) of my trusty test tracks already results in some distortion); not only in DDs but also balanced armatures like the ubiquitous Bellsing 30095 and I'll be damned if there aren't any measurable differences.
> 
> ...


Yup... I have found in my almost 40 years in the hifi hobby, that any kind of driver or component that has a physical motion benefits from burn in. Sometimes it's very obvious, other times with another speaker or headphone, not so much. I've noticed it with other components too like cables. Nope, there's no measurements that can collaborate what I hear, so it must be placebo or just my crazy imagination. Whatever...I'm not looking to open that can of worms.


----------



## khighly

courierdriver said:


> Yup... I have found in my almost 40 years in the hifi hobby, that any kind of driver or component that has a physical motion benefits from burn in. Sometimes it's very obvious, other times with another speaker or headphone, not so much. I've noticed it with other components too like cables. Nope, there's no measurements that can collaborate what I hear, so it must be placebo or just my crazy imagination. Whatever...I'm not looking to open that can of worms.



It could simply be processes or adaptations inside your ear or brain that are natural functions of the human body.

Anyway, please take the sound 'science' discussion to other appropriate sub-forums. It usually leads to flaming.


----------



## courierdriver

khighly said:


> It could simply be processes or adaptations inside your ear or brain that are natural functions of the human body.
> 
> Anyway, please take the sound 'science' discussion to other appropriate sub-forums. It usually leads to flaming.


Sorry...didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just suggesting that there are other $100 amps available besides the JDS Atom, which might be a better sound signature for some people. My response was actually to augment what a previous poster quoted with regards to how far Chifi and KZ have come in sound quality for an affordable price. The post I replied to suggested another piece of affordable gear (a desktop headphone amp...the Jds Labs Atom) to which I added another option (the Monoprice Liquid Spark). Many reviews suggest that it's also very good. Both amps might be well suited to drive many iems, including KZ's. I was simply trying to provide another option.


----------



## randomnin

DynamicEars said:


> I got this wild theory about KZ - CCA actually and why they sounds different, and they're out with new models and PRO lines :
> 
> Imagine if KZ were built by like say 3 people founders.. along with time, 1 founder (call it Mr A) would make KZ sounds more balanced to target audiophile. But the other 2 didn't agree with the idea as their signature sounds worked quite well.
> then, Mr. A sadly split with other 2 Mr. B and Mr. C and build up the CCA company to make more balance "KZ" product, but he couldn't use KZ name, so instead He went with CCA. Of course he know well all the supplier and every process things.
> ...


Come to think of it, I also have a theory, though a bit different.
Once upon a time there was an old Asian corporate god by the name of Knowledge Zenith (the OG KZ for short, because who has the time, amirite?). And this particular god liked getting offerings in form of green paper, which he got from the folk by making the regular devastating tsunamis known as KZ-hypeWaves™. One day KZ decided he could get even more of his beloved green stuff by making a demigod clone from his eleventh finger, which he named CCA (btw, he made CCA a different colour than himself, for lulz one would guess. Legend also says no one remembers the CCA's full name, but that's besides any point). And so to this day O.G. KZ and CCA stomp the seas in shifts, making hypewaves for the boundless want of green paper that the folk offer to placate the fearsome gods.


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> Yup... I have found in my almost 40 years in the hifi hobby, that any kind of driver or component that has a physical motion benefits from burn in. Sometimes it's very obvious, other times with another speaker or headphone, not so much. I've noticed it with other components too like cables. Nope, there's no measurements that can collaborate what I hear, so it must be placebo or just my crazy imagination. Whatever...I'm not looking to open that can of worms.


I agree with you, in fact I posted a message a while ago saying the same thing. Also as electrical equipment is used magnetic fields can build up in cables and circuits and produce additional resistance. This will have an effect on the perceived sound. I don't think it's your crazy imagination or placebo as I have had the same experience, also for over 40 years. Mmmmm, these worms taste good!


----------



## Podster (Jun 3, 2019)

In current KZ rotation and desperately awaiting my new ZS10 Pro's (Seems my 15 year old has once again absconded my Green ZS6's and the 17 year old is thumping my ZN1's)






Inserted at this time


----------



## eclein

Hey ZUNE .....Cowon Plenue R thats what the DOC ordered and I love it....JetAudio and Jet Effects are monstrous  fun.
 
I wanna find these tips that I put on my T3’s because they really had a huge helping impact on the low end and isolation. Double flange somethins....its stack like plates that are same size. Anybody have name or info? So I can outfit my KZ collection?


----------



## Slater (Jun 3, 2019)

eclein said:


> Hey ZUNE .....Cowon Plenue R thats what the DOC ordered and I love it....JetAudio and Jet Effects are monstrous  fun.
> 
> I wanna find these tips that I put on my T3’s because they really had a huge helping impact on the low end and isolation. Double flange somethins....its stack like plates that are same size. Anybody have name or info? So I can outfit my KZ collection?



Those double-stacked tips were used on the KZ HDS2 and the Yamaha something-1000 IEM that KZ copied. I’ve also seen those tips on Aliexpress, I think as a replacement tip from some Sennheiser earphone.


----------



## khighly

courierdriver said:


> Sorry...didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just suggesting that there are other $100 amps available besides the JDS Atom, which might be a better sound signature for some people. My response was actually to augment what a previous poster quoted with regards to how far Chifi and KZ have come in sound quality for an affordable price. The post I replied to suggested another piece of affordable gear (a desktop headphone amp...the Jds Labs Atom) to which I added another option (the Monoprice Liquid Spark). Many reviews suggest that it's also very good. Both amps might be well suited to drive many iems, including KZ's. I was simply trying to provide another option.


Sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude, just that these sound science discussions turn into flame wars often and keeping that potential flaming out of threads like this is awesome.


----------



## eclein

Slater said:


> Those double-stacked tips were used on the KZ HDS2 and the Yamaha something-1000 IEM that KZ copied. I’ve also seen those tips on Aliexpress, I think as a replacement tip from some Sennheiser earphone.



I’ve image searched AE and the planet and get 3 tiers, tree like

Dude thanks for info, I used your post images since you posted them......
Panda will know maybe he uses them also but the tree like ones....


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Those double-stacked tips were used on the KZ HDS2 and the Yamaha something-1000 IEM that KZ copied. I’ve also seen those tips on Aliexpress, I think as a replacement tip from some Sennheiser earphone.



Was the Yammy EPH100's but according to most they sounds tons better than the HDS2's, I know I did not care for mine (HDS2's that is, sorry KZ they were a dud)


----------



## archdawg

eclein said:


> I’ve image searched AE and the planet and get 3 tiers, tree like
> 
> Dude thanks for info, I used your post images since you posted them......
> Panda will know maybe he uses them also but the tree like ones....



If you mean these tips:



 
​... just search for *two layer eartips *on AE - they're there.


----------



## Aparker2005

My zs10 pro just came in and wow. Easily the best sounding kz I've had yet. Think I like them better than the as16s


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> If you mean these tips:
> 
> 
> ​... just search for *two layer eartips *on AE - they're there.



But most double flange tips are stacked in 2 different sizes - the bottom layer is bigger than the top layer.

The ones I posted are unique, in that both layers are the exact same size.


----------



## nraymond

khighly said:


> Sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude, just that these sound science discussions turn into flame wars often and keeping that potential flaming out of threads like this is awesome.



Comments like this make me a bit sad, realizing that people are pre-emptively curtailing any conversation that might be deemed by someone else (other message board members, admins etc.) to be "disruptive" or "upsetting". I mean how civil a society are we that people feel afraid of trying to have a civil conversation about something like the science of sound? Or how pessimistic are people that they feel that it's somehow hopeless to try? I wish people felt differently.


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> Comments like this make me a bit sad, realizing that people are pre-emptively curtailing any conversation that might be deemed by someone else (other message board members, admins etc.) to be "disruptive" or "upsetting". I mean how civil a society are we that people feel afraid of trying to have a civil conversation about something like the science of sound? Or how pessimistic are people that they feel that it's somehow hopeless to try? I wish people felt differently.



I think they only meant that there are discussions all over HeadFi related to specific topics. There’s a whole sound science area on HeadFi specifically dedicated to burning in, cables, etc.

Whereas this thread is for discussing KZ stuff.

No one is trying to stifle conversation. Everyone is welcome.


----------



## Aparker2005

Yeah after just a few run throughs, the as16s may be sold. They're definitely a backup to my zs10 pro now. Not sure I'll need any other iem after these. So good


----------



## B9Scrambler

eclein said:


> Hey ZUNE .....Cowon Plenue R thats what the DOC ordered and I love it....JetAudio and Jet Effects are monstrous  fun.
> 
> I wanna find these tips that I put on my T3’s because they really had a huge helping impact on the low end and isolation. Double flange somethins....its stack like plates that are same size. Anybody have name or info? So I can outfit my KZ collection?



From the pics you've shown there, you want these. I've used the same tips with mine. Top and bottom flange aren't exactly the same size, but very close. That's the large size you have shown. Advanced M4 and Havi B3 Pro I/II also come with them.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Jun 3, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> I got this wild theory about KZ - CCA actually and why they sounds different, and they're out with new models and PRO lines :
> 
> Imagine if KZ were built by like say 3 people founders.. along with time, 1 founder (call it Mr A) would make KZ sounds more balanced to target audiophile. But the other 2 didn't agree with the idea as their signature sounds worked quite well.
> then, Mr. A sadly split with other 2 Mr. B and Mr. C and build up the CCA company to make more balance "KZ" product, but he couldn't use KZ name, so instead He went with CCA. Of course he know well all the supplier and every process things.
> ...



From what I presume this might be a conscious decision by KZ to eventually lead to a sound signature which appeals across segments. From casual listeners to audiophiles. A sound which is fun yet balanced and accurate. It seems KZ wants to create a Chi-Fi utopia. I might be 100% wrong but if both CCA and KZ lineup are closely observed it seems very much plausible.


----------



## DarKu

Just posted my KZ AS16 reviews.
*My video one*
*My written one*
Hope you like them


----------



## eclein

B9Scrambler said:


> From the pics you've shown there, you want these. I've used the same tips with mine. Top and bottom flange aren't exactly the same size, but very close. That's the large size you have shown. Advanced M4 and Havi B3 Pro I/II also come with them.


*BINGO! Awesome, Slater, Scrambler thank you both...I have Havi’s somewhere that must be why I have some.*
*THANKS!, Ed*


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> From the pics you've shown there, you want these. I've used the same tips with mine. Top and bottom flange aren't exactly the same size, but very close. That's the large size you have shown. Advanced M4 and Havi B3 Pro I/II also come with them.



Still kicking myself in the booty for giving my M4's away especially since I got them for $8.49 on my Massdrop credit I had built up. With that said you'll have to pry my M5-1D's out of my cold dead hand as they are the best single DD I've ever owned, very addictive and the more you listen to them you ask yourself why you've bought all the other iem's! Least I had enough sense not to let my Havi's go


----------



## Ultrainferno

The KZ AS10 is on our recommended buy list, will the ZS10 Pro join it? Now on HFN

https://www.headfonia.com/kz-zs10-pro-review/


----------



## CYoung234

1clearhead said:


> Please keep us posted!


So, more listening yesterday. For me, these two are still neck and neck. On one track, Mama, Genesis, Invisible Touch, I think, there was just too much high frequency energy on the C16s. Not the best recording, but it provides an example of how the ZS10, in comparison, just gets out of the way of the music. There is still great openness and space, but only when it is actually in the recording. I have probably said this before, but in a good concert hall, the music just appears from total silence. Many speakers and headphones do not really reproduce this sense of nothing or silence. In this respect, the ZS10 fares better than the C16 so far. I may adjust the Neutralizer profile for the C16 to see if I can shed some of that energy. On other recordings, the C16 really does retrieve detail. But in the end, I am listening for the music and not for how impressive the iem might be...


----------



## CYoung234

Assimilator702 said:


> The ZS10 PRO is miles ahead of the ZS10. After a few days with the AS10 and the ZS10 I couldn't stand the ZS10. Now that I have the ZS10 PRO it's very clear that it wasn't tuned like the old model.
> 
> I just ordered the CCA A10 so I'm hoping that's an improvement of the AS10.



Well, we will see. My ZS10 Pro just landed in Miami. Now it needs to make it's way to Paraguay. The regular ZS10 sure has its detractors in here! As for me, I prefer it over the Tin Audio T2, which is my other daily driver. The CCA C16 is making its way into daily rotation as well, but so far, the ZS10 is hanging in there. It probably has something to do with what genres of music you like, and what kind of sound you are looking for. As for me, I listen to a mix of stuff, classical, some retro progressive rock, like Peter Gabriel, Genesis, Steve Hackett,  Tears for Fears, as well as some newer stuff, like m83,  Sia, Lindsey Sterling, The Jezebel's, Imagine Dragons,  Coldplay and One Republic


----------



## auraldesire95

My ZSN arrived today!


----------



## mbwilson111

auraldesire95 said:


> My ZSN arrived today!



Enjoy!  I love mine.


----------



## Aparker2005

I think I'm going to keep my as16s for now, but the zs10 pro are my new iems for stage performance. 

I think I'll sell my as10s here in the United States. Unused cable and buds, so if anyone is interested, pm me!


----------



## Caipirina

Just filled another gap in my KZ collection: the ED7 (knock on wood -pun intended- it will really show up)


 

When searching for them directly on AX, there are 3 sellers and all their links lead to ‘oooops-don’t have!’
But with random, endless scrolling I happened across ‘inspire gift shop’ ... and they seem to have them! At least they let me order ...  now we wait


----------



## archdawg (Jun 5, 2019)

Picked up my ZS7, ZSA and some more cables at the PO today.

First things first ... thanks for the heads-ups on the ZS7 everyone!



 

My first impressions on the road w/o burn-in (Xiaomi Max2, Sonata USB DAC, flat braided KZ upgrade cable):
Bass, exceptional ...
fast & bone dry, hits like a brick if needed, not overboard anywhere but really well behaved on most of my test tracks (trusty Chesky recordings, EDM & some of my own acoustic and electronic stuff) w/ very little bleed upwards.
Mids: dry, crisp and beautifully detailed but the timbre of some acoustic instruments (strings, horns, piano, ..) is a bit off. I'll check the vocal department later.
Highs & treble: surprisingly all the extension I care for up there, great dry, crispy details (I like it that way) enough air and shimmer, decent rendering of cymbals, but here's the catch: my copies are as sibilant as a ¶|$$€d off sspitting cobra. At the moment I'm not too worried; if those critters keep sssissing after the usual 100+ hours on the burn in rig I'll take a closer look at the matter and fix it.
BTW, I don't remember who mentioned a 'dark' signature ; maybe KZ has changed something in the meantime but these are some of the brightest KZs I own (17 pairs).
Another plus in my book ... my copies sound just fine at my usual low listening levels.

Spatial impressions:  surprising clarity and instrument separation; best of any of my KZs so far. Not quite as spacious, close to transparent or wide as the ZS6 but with more depth and perceived height. One more catch though: that 3d illusion, especially that of depth seems highly dependent on the frequency range; I've never seen or heard a 2 meter deep or long guitar before and will check into that issue with some other test tracks later. Anyway, I had a real good time listening to some 3d or 'holographically' enhanced electronic stuff through those IEMs but now it's back to some trusty recordings of acoustic instruments.

Bottom line: apart from the heavy sibilance mainly positive first impressions;  can't wait to finish the burn-in phase and hear if and how that helped but so far it's been a pretty enjoyable fun ride.

Edit: image added


----------



## macky112

if I want to buy spare cables for KZ headphones, is it better to get type B or Type C?  my KZs: ZS3, ZST, ZS5, ZS7, and an incoming ZS10 Pro

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-0-75mm-...hash=item3b317f425f:m:mk55G5Q3e7cAYUhwtvf9c5g

and the above cable is an upgrade over stock KZ cable right?

TIA


----------



## Slater (Jun 4, 2019)

macky112 said:


> if I want to buy spare cables for KZ headphones, is it better to get type B or Type C?  my KZs: ZS3, ZST, ZS5, ZS7, and an incoming ZS10 Pro
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-0-75mm-...hash=item3b317f425f:m:mk55G5Q3e7cAYUhwtvf9c5g
> 
> ...



Well, 3 of your 5 are Para A (ZS3, ZS5, ZS7).

Then you have 1 Para B (ZST) and 1 Para C (ZS10 Pro).

So if you want to buy spare cables, it seems to make the most sense to buy A.

A will fit A, B, and C (but will stick up on C).
B will fit B and C (but will stick up on C).
C will fit C only.

You could also get any of the KZ cables with the knurled silver aluminum plugs (with the red/blue rings), and trim off the plastic. Then it would fit A, B, and C (but will stick up on C).


----------



## ShakyJake

DynamicEars said:


> I got this wild theory about KZ - CCA actually and why they sounds different, and they're out with new models and PRO lines :
> 
> Imagine if KZ were built by like say 3 people founders.. along with time, 1 founder (call it Mr A) would make KZ sounds more balanced to target audiophile. But the other 2 didn't agree with the idea as their signature sounds worked quite well.
> then, Mr. A sadly split with other 2 Mr. B and Mr. C and build up the CCA company to make more balance "KZ" product, but he couldn't use KZ name, so instead He went with CCA. Of course he know well all the supplier and every process things.
> ...



Interesting theory about the origins of the CCA company. If we can get @KopiOkaya back out from hiding we might get closer to the real story. Somehow, he/she went into hiding/silence.


----------



## mbwilson111

ShakyJake said:


> Interesting theory about the origins of the CCA company. If we can get @KopiOkaya back out from hiding we might get closer to the real story. Somehow, he/she went into hiding/silence.



In the TRN thread.


----------



## eclein

mbwilson111 said:


> In the TRN thread.



Yup.....


----------



## khighly (Jun 5, 2019)

nraymond said:


> Comments like this make me a bit sad, realizing that people are pre-emptively curtailing any conversation that might be deemed by someone else (other message board members, admins etc.) to be "disruptive" or "upsetting". I mean how civil a society are we that people feel afraid of trying to have a civil conversation about something like the science of sound? Or how pessimistic are people that they feel that it's somehow hopeless to try? I wish people felt differently.



If I started bringing up pseudoscience and how these things have absolutely no scientific backing, someone is going to lose their mind, flip their lid, start swearing and insulting each other, people will leave, people will be talked to by mods. It doesn't work and has been suggested *many times* in the past that these sort of discussions be taken to appropriate sound science forums. Every time I try to bring something up about sound science, I am told to take it there which is why I now suggest people take those conversations there.

The original poster made a claim that burn in definitely happens. This comment belongs in a sound science sub-forum for further discussion, not KZ's thread.

So yes, based on past interactions, all of that should be in a sound science forum, and the interaction in that way should absolutely be stifled in this KZ thread. Suggesting that we're stifing conversation and being pessimistic when suggesting it just be moved to the appropriate sub-forums that are also public and open to participation is dishonest at best.

Nobody is stifling on-topic KZ conversation.


----------



## tnelmo

Is there a KZ product with a narrow nozzle, which would call for a T100 tip?


----------



## Slater

tnelmo said:


> Is there a KZ product with a narrow nozzle, which would call for a T100 tip?



HDS3 has a very small nozzle.


----------



## tnelmo

Thanks @Slater,  I found a post saying it was larger than Tin Audio T2.  Another post said Tin Audio T2 used T200 tips (4mm).  Someone else said they thought the HDS3 was a standard 4.5mm tip.  Thanks for the info, I'll look into it further.


----------



## Superluc (Jun 5, 2019)

The ED7's nozzle is very narrow but maybe is too short for foams.


----------



## Mellowship

Superluc said:


> The ED7's nozzle is very narrow but maybe is too short for foams.



 

Not too short. T200.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> Well, 3 of your 5 are Para A (ZS3, ZS5, ZS7).
> 
> Then you have 1 Para B (ZST) and 1 Para C (ZS10 Pro).
> 
> ...



what I am doing right now is, I put the stock ZS7 cable on my ZST, and then use the NiceHCK 8core on my ZS7 and ZS5V1. 

I am trying to think ahead and see what I should do when the ZS10 Pro arrives...  maybe nicehck 8cores on ZS7 and ZS10Pro, and stock ZS7 cable to ZS5V1.  but my stock ZST cable has mic... and according to @hakuzen the cables with mic is no good, GG >_<


----------



## Slater (Jun 5, 2019)

macky112 said:


> what I am doing right now is, I put the stock ZS7 cable on my ZST, and then use the NiceHCK 8core on my ZS7 and ZS5V1.
> 
> I am trying to think ahead and see what I should do when the ZS10 Pro arrives...  maybe nicehck 8cores on ZS7 and ZS10Pro, and stock ZS7 cable to ZS5V1.  but my stock ZST cable has mic... and according to @hakuzen the cables with mic is no good, GG >_<



The stock ZS10 Pro cable isn’t that bad.

But if you’re looking for other cable options for the ZS10 Pro, the copper cable from the purple ZSN is a steal at $3. And for an upgrade option, the 8-wire braided cable from JC Ally is great too. Both are specific to the Para C end, so they’ll only work on ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc.


----------



## courierdriver

khighly said:


> Sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude, just that these sound science discussions turn into flame wars often and keeping that potential flaming out of threads like this is awesome.


Please, could you enlighten me as to what "sound science" means, or what you are referring to? I'm not much into measurements...I like gear that sounds like real, live music. I don't care how gear goes about achieving that, I only care that it gives me the sense of being at a live performance. The ways and means that hifi gear goes about achieving that is immaterial to me.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Please, could you enlighten me as to what "sound science" means, or what you are referring to? I'm not much into measurements...I like gear that sounds like real, live music. I don't care how gear goes about achieving that, I only care that it gives me the sense of being at a live performance. The ways and means that hifi gear goes about achieving that is immaterial to me.



It’s a dedicated forum on HeadFi:

https://www.head-fi.org/forums/sound-science.133/


----------



## courierdriver

Nimweth said:


> I agree with you, in fact I posted a message a while ago saying the same thing. Also as electrical equipment is used magnetic fields can build up in cables and circuits and produce additional resistance. This will have an effect on the perceived sound. I don't think it's your crazy imagination or placebo as I have had the same experience, also for over 40 years. Mmmmm, these worms taste good!


I can't agree, disagree or dispute what you said. I really don't care about the science or measurements of any particular piece of gear. All I care about is how faithfully it mimics a live performance.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

khighly said:


> If I started bringing up pseudoscience and how these things have absolutely no scientific backing, someone is going to lose their mind, flip their lid, start swearing and insulting each other, people will leave, people will be talked to by mods. It doesn't work and has been suggested *many times* in the past that these sort of discussions be taken to appropriate sound science forums. Every time I try to bring something up about sound science, I am told to take it there which is why I now suggest people take those conversations there.
> 
> The original poster made a claim that burn in definitely happens. This comment belongs in a sound science sub-forum for further discussion, not KZ's thread.
> 
> So yes, based on past interactions, all of that should be in a sound science forum, and the interaction in that way should absolutely be stifled in this KZ thread. Suggesting that we're stifing conversation and being pessimistic when suggesting it just be m





Slater said:


> It’s a dedicated forum on HeadFi:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/forums/sound-science.133/


Yes a wonderful section where one will say something and use "Science" to prove himself/herself correct and then 20 others come in and prove him/her wrong with "Science". and then the debate rages on for years with long boring scienctifical gobblygoop speech and endless links to horribly boring research papers. 

Stay the EFF away from that mess. Don't get sucked in. LOL


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yes a wonderful section where one will say something and use "Science" to prove himself/herself correct and then 20 others come in and prove him/her wrong with "Science". and then the debate rages on for years with long boring scienctifical gobblygoop speech and endless links to horribly boring research papers.
> 
> Stay the EFF away from that mess. Don't get sucked in. LOL



Well, at least it’s nice for people to have a central place where they can debate those pseudoscience topics, even if sometimes it feels like you’re just beating your head against a wall.

There’s actually some very knowledge people that hang out there, and one can learn a lot in some of the topics discussed.

The issue is that there’s often equally smart people on both sides of the arguments. So many topics get scientifically/un-scientifically proven and disproven at the same time lol


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yes a wonderful section where one will say something and use "Science" to prove himself/herself correct and then 20 others come in and prove him/her wrong with "Science". and then the debate rages on for years with long boring scienctifical gobblygoop speech and endless links to horribly boring research papers.
> 
> Stay the EFF away from that mess. Don't get sucked in. LOL


@BadReligionPunk Yup, I agree. Gonna stay out of this from now on. It's just a bit weird how a comment I made responding to another member's post has already generated so much feedback...not all positive. Before today, I never even knew the term "psuedo science". Lol! 0


----------



## twiceboss

Im finding a huge soundstage with punchy bass and also not piercing highs.

Which one should i get zs10pro, cca c16, kz as16?


----------



## paulwasabii

Slater said:


> The stock ZS10 Pro cable isn’t that bad.
> 
> But if you’re looking for other cable options for the ZS10 Pro, the copper cable from the purple ZSN is a steal at $3. And for an upgrade option, the 8-wire braided cable from JC Ally is great too. Both are specific to the Para C end, so they’ll only work on ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc.



Do you have a link for the $3 purple cable?

Thank you


----------



## tgx78

I am a simple man, I see pretty cables, I press a “Buy” button.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Please, could you enlighten me as to what "sound science" means, or what you are referring to? I'm not much into measurements...I like gear that sounds like real, live music. I don't care how gear goes about achieving that, I only care that it gives me the sense of being at a live performance. The ways and means that hifi gear goes about achieving that is immaterial to me.



If we all would just read the Posting Guidelines as we are instructed to do when we join,  we would find the forum policies on this and many other topics.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> @BadReligionPunk Yup, I agree. Gonna stay out of this from now on. It's just a bit weird how a comment I made responding to another member's post has already generated so much feedback...not all positive. Before today, I never even knew the term "psuedo science". Lol! 0



Usually nobody says anything unless it escalates into a "debate" (ie argument) but some users have reasons to be particularly sensitive to certain things...especially if they have been in the middle of it before.  Don't worry about it.


----------



## Slater (Jun 5, 2019)

paulwasabii said:


> Do you have a link for the $3 purple cable?
> 
> Thank you



If you search Aliexpress for “KZ pink copper wire”, you’ll see it for $2.95 with free shipping (you might need to sort by lowest price to get it to show up at the top). Make sure you choose the one that is “C” under options, and whether you want the mic or no mic version).


----------



## Slater

tgx78 said:


> I am a simple man, I see pretty cables, I press a “Buy” button.



Beautiful!

Is the one on the ZS10 Pro the new cable from KZ?


----------



## paulwasabii

Slater said:


> If you search Aliexpress for “KZ pink copper wire”, you’ll see it for $2.95 with free shipping (you might need to sort by lowest price to get it to show up at the top). Make sure you choose the one that is “C” under options.


Thank you, got it


----------



## tgx78

Slater said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> Is the one on the ZS10 Pro the new cable from KZ?



Yes it is.


----------



## courierdriver

So, I've got a question for anyone who wants to help me out. I've had the ZS10 PRO for a little over 2 weeks now, and I really love them. Over the past few days though, I've been rediscovering Reggae music, and I find myself wanting a bit more bass, stage, and air from this genre. Is the ZS7 a good way to go, or is there another Kz that is better for that kind of music? The ZS10 PRO is good in every way and I don't wanna give up all that's great about them...I just want a bigger, warmer more impactful bass presentation. Is this my best choice?


----------



## courierdriver

tgx78 said:


> I am a simple man, I see pretty cables, I press a “Buy” button.


Yeah, I feel you bro. It's hard for me not to spend huge amounts on all the sweet looking cables out there. Even if I get them cheap, I could still see myself having a ridiculous number of them, given all the possible configurations there are for connector options and gauges. So far though, every time I buy a new earphone, I always have to buy a new upgrade cable to go with it.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> The stock ZS10 Pro cable isn’t that bad.
> 
> But if you’re looking for other cable options for the ZS10 Pro, the copper cable from the purple ZSN is a steal at $3. And for an upgrade option, the 8-wire braided cable from JC Ally is great too. Both are specific to the Para C end, so they’ll only work on ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc.


Yeah, I didn't really hate the stock cable on the ZS10 PRO either. I just didn't like the fact it didn't have a chin cinch and it tangled easily. They seemed to have fixed the low Y-split problem and I didn't find it too microphonic. Still, my JCally cable is much better and I highly rec it for an upgrade cable, just based on it's construction and how it's not very janky. Connectors also seem of high quality.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 5, 2019)

Personally I think warm bass heavy phones with a smooth laidback character are best for reggae and dub. ZS7(which I don't have), might be a bit too energetic. I dunno. Its all about preferences. I personally would be alright listening to reggae with kanas pro with a bit of bass boost. Also I will always and forever rec KZ ES4 for hip hop and reggae. $12 too. But hey its all about personal preferences. I also fully rec EMX500 earbuds. Will set you back a whole $8-$9 but are so smooth and warm with the biggest stage. Great for reggae if you can get on with an earbud.

BTW, this summer in STL is looking pretty good for reggae. We have The Wailers playing here this month, Ky-Mani Marley next month, and Stephen Marley and Protoje coming in Aug. The wife and I already have our tickets for all of them.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 5, 2019)

Aparker2005 said:


> My zs10 pro just came in and wow. Easily the best sounding kz I've had yet. Think I like them better than the as16s


Better than the AS16's people seem to generally not like? Wow, that's amazing!!!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> I will always and forever rec KZ ES4 for hip hop and reggae. $12 too. But hey its all about personal preferences. I also fully rec EMX500 earbuds. Will set you back a whole $8-$9 but are so smooth and warm with the biggest stage. Great for reggae if you can get on with an earbud.


What's so special about the KZ ES4 for hip hop? Vs... any other models?


----------



## voicemaster

twiceboss said:


> Im finding a huge soundstage with punchy bass and also not piercing highs.
> 
> Which one should i get zs10pro, cca c16, kz as16?



ZS10 pro imho


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> So, I've got a question for anyone who wants to help me out. I've had the ZS10 PRO for a little over 2 weeks now, and I really love them. Over the past few days though, I've been rediscovering Reggae music, and I find myself wanting a bit more bass, stage, and air from this genre. Is the ZS7 a good way to go, or is there another Kz that is better for that kind of music? The ZS10 PRO is good in every way and I don't wanna give up all that's great about them...I just want a bigger, warmer more impactful bass presentation. Is this my best choice?



I have both ZS7 and ZS10 pro, ZS7 has less treble extension so it is less airy than ZS10 pro imo. The ZS7 has more bass in term of impact and body than ZS10 pro. Soundstage is about the same from my listening.


----------



## UriAvitan

is the cable for zsn here will fit the ZS10 PRO?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FEN...lgo_pvid=6d869a35-987d-4877-91e6-a60c059a157d

and how is he compare to the following one?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KZ-...244409.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.295a3c00xNZpxc

regards,
Uri


----------



## Slater

UriAvitan said:


> is the cable for zsn here will fit the ZS10 PRO?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FEN...lgo_pvid=6d869a35-987d-4877-91e6-a60c059a157d
> 
> and how is he compare to the following one?
> ...



Yes to question #1

Top one is 3rd party cable and bottom one is genuine KZ. They’ll both work perfectly fine.

The top one has a chin slider, which is a nice feature to have.

Just go with the one you like the look of (visually).


----------



## UriAvitan

Slater said:


> Yes to question #1
> 
> Top one is 3rd party cable and bottom one is genuine KZ. They’ll both work perfectly fine.
> 
> ...


is there a better option up to 20$?


----------



## hakuzen

UriAvitan said:


> is there a better option up to 20$?


check cables for KZs in my list:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/

many options, with their pros and cons


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


>


How does this purple ZSN cable change the ZS10 Pro sound?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 6, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> I was just suggesting that there are other $100 amps available besides the JDS Atom, which might be a better sound signature for some people. The post I replied to suggested another piece of affordable gear, the Monoprice Liquid Spark. Many reviews suggest that it's also very good. Both amps might be well suited to drive many iems, including KZ's.


Which headphone amp did you think would be better for KZ's sound signature?

Liquid Spark measurements: 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-monoprice-liquid-spark-headphone-amp.5224/

JDS Atom measurements: 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

maxxevv said:


> Wait till you discover the technical perfection that $100 headphone amps (JDS Atom) and $100 DAC's (Khadas Tone Board) have achieved over the past year.


Is that the cheapest/closest way to get to state of the art high quality sound for our KZ's?


----------



## UriAvitan

hakuzen said:


> check cables for KZs in my list:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/
> 
> many options, with their pros and cons


Please give me link for the best option in your opinion for cable for the zs10 pro for 20$ or less.


----------



## archdawg (Jun 6, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Over the past few days though, I've been rediscovering Reggae music, and I find myself wanting a bit more bass, stage, and air from this genre. Is the ZS7 a good way to go, or is there another Kz that is better for that kind of music?


I only have my ZS7 for two days but find their punchy, quick and dry sub-bass quite exceptional. Just keep in mind that this kind of bone dry bass might not be the best choice for reggae; I'd personally prefer something more fluid with longer decay for that sort of vibes. Regarding airiness and spaciousness I'd give a nod to any of my beloved ZS6 but where my 7s beat them again is in warmth and perceived depth and height which enhances their spatial representation. In that department they're way ahead of any of my cheaper KZs, including the ZSN and ZSN Pro IMO. Even though some aspects of that 3d space sound somewhat 'haloed' and spatially distorted to my ears, especially with sophisticated acoustic or field recordings, that sort of representation definitely has its own charm with other vibes.
Just my 2 €¢ ...


----------



## nxnje

courierdriver said:


> So, I've got a question for anyone who wants to help me out. I've had the ZS10 PRO for a little over 2 weeks now, and I really love them. Over the past few days though, I've been rediscovering Reggae music, and I find myself wanting a bit more bass, stage, and air from this genre. Is the ZS7 a good way to go, or is there another Kz that is better for that kind of music? The ZS10 PRO is good in every way and I don't wanna give up all that's great about them...I just want a bigger, warmer more impactful bass presentation. Is this my best choice?



If you wanna read a comparison between the two, i got a comparison on my website.
Click on the ZS10 PRO review, here you can find a comparison between zs7 ans zs10 and can have one more opinion to consider in your choice.
I know it's not the same thing as listening, but could help.

Imho, the ZS10 Pro are tonally more suited for more genres (even if midbass is a bit over the top some tines) while the ZS7 are warmer and exceptional but not really well suited for every kind of genre.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Another see pretty cable...and buy.
Including £3 ones from KZ themselves.
All of them very nice.


----------



## hakuzen

UriAvitan said:


> Please give me link for the best option in your opinion for cable for the zs10 pro for 20$ or less.


maybe:
(4 thick cores, various colors)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995790233.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995762667.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32993765614.html
(same with 8 thinner cores, black)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32994432994.html
the cons of all these is the jack used (cheap low quality), but the wire is possibly better than new kz upgrade cable (silver+gold color), which you can find in many shops at ae.
this kz upgrade cable can be found very cheap, the jack and solders look better, but thinner wire and not chin slider, as @Slater has mentioned.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 6, 2019)

archdawg said:


> I only have my ZS7 for two days but find their punchy, quick and dry sub-bass quite exceptional. Just keep in mind that this kind of bone dry bass might not be the best choice for reggae; I'd personally prefer something more fluid with longer decay for that sort of vibes. Regarding airiness and spaciousness I'd give a nod to any of my beloved ZS6 but where my 7s beat them again is in warmth and perceived depth and height which enhances their spatial representation. In that department they're way ahead of any of my cheaper KZs, including the ZSN and ZSN Pro IMO. Even though some aspects of that 3d space sound somewhat 'haloed' and spatially distorted to my ears, especially with sophisticated acoustic or field recordings, that sort of representation definitely has its own charm with other vibes.
> Just my 2 €¢ ...



The "haloed" in 3d space, you hear is because of their recessed mids.

Things seem longer and stretched out than they actually are.

These will give you the Jamaican bass with compromises in overall clarity in the sound by softening treble. But no compromise on bass you look for. Tried it over some Bob Marley. Makes the bass boomy, while giving it fair amount of control. They look similar to the Sony xb series tips, but are more rubbery in texture.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1se...icone-Eartips-Ear-Sleeve-Ear/32711244351.html

Also if and when you get them don't insert them fully though the nozzle. Only halfway or 3/4 should be ok.

Ps: you will possibly go near deaf after listening to bass heavy music in 1 minute with these on.


----------



## nxnje

I'm really sad for some banned brands which are doing a super goof job as their products cannot even be mentioned to give tips and advices

Do you think they'll get unbanned one day?


----------



## nxnje

hakuzen said:


> maybe:
> (4 thick cores, various colors)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995790233.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995762667.html
> ...



Is there any guide out here about how to make a personal custom cable?


----------



## UriAvitan

hakuzen said:


> maybe:
> (4 thick cores, various colors)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995790233.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32995762667.html
> ...



how those compare to the options you gave?:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/***...220523.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56143c0073aOia

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...355990.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56143c0073aOia

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AK-...lgo_pvid=5694a254-7374-4a91-8c8b-815a9d1e4c2a


----------



## raccoon city

Slater said:


> If you search Aliexpress for “KZ pink copper wire”, you’ll see it for $2.95 with free shipping (you might need to sort by lowest price to get it to show up at the top). Make sure you choose the one that is “C” under options, and whether you want the mic or no mic version).


Is this the best inexpensive KZ cable?


----------



## Zune

I'm using a JCally balanced cable on my ZS10 Pro's and I'm really liking it but it's mentioned in the HiBy R6 thread that it's wired wrong for the ZS10 Pro's. It's reversed in it's wiring and wired for QDC. To my inexperienced ears the sound is improved over the unbalanced stock cable. Does anyone else think it's not right and sounds wrong?


----------



## Mybutthurts

raccoon city said:


> Is this the best inexpensive KZ cable?



For the price it is very good, and in use with my ZS10 Pro.


----------



## archdawg

gourab1995 said:


> The "haloed" in 3d space, you hear is because of their recessed mids.
> 
> Things seem longer and stretched out than they actually are.



My idea of the cause for the 'halos' and spatial distortions are phase differences (interferences) at the overlap frequencies of the different drivers; not at last because they appear more distinctively in certain frequency ranges. If you take a look inside of the ZS7 there's no acoustic tuning of any sort (dampers, tubes); the different BAs seem to be placed wherever they fit best and on top of that any passive RC crossover introduces additional phase issues. Now, based on their configuration I didn't expect them to be reference phones in any way but they sure deliver some listening fun, especially with electronic vibes.


----------



## gourab1995

archdawg said:


> My idea of the cause for the 'halos' and spatial distortions are phase differences (interferences) at the overlap frequencies of the different drivers; not at last because they appear more distinctively in certain frequency ranges. If you take a look inside of the ZS7 there's no acoustic tuning of any sort (dampers, tubes); the different BAs seem to be placed wherever they fit best and on top of that any passive RC crossover introduces additional phase issues. Now, based on their configuration I didn't expect them to be reference phones in any way but they sure deliver some listening fun, especially with electronic vibes.



The very reason I think buying kz above 35 usd is not worth. They don't tune their iems.


----------



## B9Scrambler

gourab1995 said:


> The very reason I think buying kz above 35 usd is not worth. *They don't tune their iems*.



Yeah, they do. They all do. Just some are better at it than others.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 6, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Yeah, they do. They all do. Just some are better at it than others.



Correction they don't tune their iems *well enough relative to some offerings at the price point of under 50usd.*


----------



## Superluc

Mellowship said:


> Not too short. T200.


Mounting them is a thing, i was wondering if they stay there for some hours while wearing them.

If you actually have used them like this, they may be worth a shot


----------



## pbui44

Onto page 3,000 and KZ as a budget winner!


----------



## archdawg

gourab1995 said:


> The very reason I think buying kz above 35 usd is not worth. They don't tune their iems.


Well ... they're learning ... and they're learning pretty fast here and there.
If you take a closer look at the AS16 you'll see a 3D printed tubing piece that channels the output of the different BAs towards the nozzle. I have no idea what kind of research went into that piece  - material, lengths, diameters and shapes of the individual bores - or if they inserted any dampers, most probably not, but at least it looks like they're getting more serious on acoustic tuning now, at least on this first higher end IEM - good signal.
Where I have my gripes with KZ and some other manufacturers it's quality control, or rather the lack thereof. Damn, the treble on my two latest KZs - the ZS7 and the ZSA is the worst of any of my 30+ IEMs - _by far_. I don't expect those folks to run a thorough acoustic check on any single IEM that leaves their factory but this level of piercing shrillness is just plain inacceptable IMO.


----------



## PhonoPhi

gourab1995 said:


> Correction they don't tune their iems *well enough relative to some offerings at the price point of under 50usd.*


I thoroughly enjoy my CCA C16! 
Hardly, there is a univeral tuning suitable for all tastes and music styles.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What's so special about the KZ ES4 for hip hop? Vs... any other models?



The only KZ that I have heard, that I would rank "basshead". By that I mean its bassy AF without help, but if you happen to need extra help, it takes eq and amp fairly well for even more rumble. They are warm, and they have a nice stage. Really smooth. Bass is loose and a bit slow. That's great for this type of music IMO, and that's how I like hip hop and reggae. 

And they are $12.


----------



## Mellowship

Superluc said:


> Mounting them is a thing, i was wondering if they stay there for some hours while wearing them.
> 
> If you actually have used them like this, they may be worth a shot



They hold the t200 well. No problems to report. T100 might also fit, but not the t400.
They are rather fine for the price, having a deep bass and not very recessed mids.


----------



## Superluc

Because my pair of ZSN Pro was too peaky for my ears, i have try on them also a set of OSTRY tips OS300, the black ones.
They are a bit costly and harder then usual silicone tips, so the personal fit may become a bit more shallow and less stable. Anyway, with them i feel the peaks as tamed, so things like sibilance and splashiness now flow with a sense of smoothness, but at the same time the sound isn't become dull at all. That airy feeling and those fuller voices over the previous ZSN are still there.

Not for everyone, but those internal filters seam to work well with IEMs with elevated treble.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 6, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> I thoroughly enjoy my CCA C16!
> Hardly, there is a univeral tuning suitable for all tastes and music styles.



Sure kz has their hits and misses. But most of their iems lack a sense of refinement. They are thriving due to their insane multi BA configs and bass. Would you have 5 slices of pizza that taste mediocre or 2 slices that taste like heaven? (Slices are drivers)

On a positive note they certainly are getting better and at a fast rate. With the ZS10 pro and zsn pro coming out.

Personally I don't consider c16 budget anymore. Rather invest in some Kanas pros after saving up if I really had to upgrade, which I won't be doing soon.

But then like you mention hardly there is a universal tuning suitable for all tastes!


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 6, 2019)

archdawg said:


> Well ... they're learning ... and they're learning pretty fast here and there.
> If you take a closer look at the AS16 you'll see a 3D printed tubing piece that channels the output of the different BAs towards the nozzle. I have no idea what kind of research went into that piece  - material, lengths, diameters and shapes of the individual bores - or if they inserted any dampers, most probably not, but at least it looks like they're getting more serious on acoustic tuning now, at least on this first higher end IEM - good signal.
> Where I have my gripes with KZ and some other manufacturers it's quality control, or rather the lack thereof. Damn, the treble on my two latest KZs - the ZS7 and the ZSA is the worst of any of my 30+ IEMs - _by far_. I don't expect those folks to run a thorough acoustic check on any single IEM that leaves their factory but this level of piercing shrillness is just plain inacceptable IMO.



Wait a minute zs7 shrill? Definitely not shrill. maybe funky tonality but definitely not shrill. If you just got them it may be the case. Even mine were. Almost felt like returning them. They will need a long time to smoothen out. I gave my zs7 about two weeks of play time to accept them. 1 month in, 0 sibilance, still a bit peaky, but tolerable. Also you want to maintain a healthy amount of distance between the nozzle and your ears.

Sometimes it makes me think that's the reason I found the as10 to be harsh as well. I might have not given them enough time.


----------



## deniskzn

Tripowin TP10 - this is the OEM headphones that are made at the factory Knowledge Zenith?
I was given a description of these headphones, but there is little that is clear


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> Personally I think warm bass heavy phones with a smooth laidback character are best for reggae and dub. ZS7(which I don't have), might be a bit too energetic. I dunno. Its all about preferences. I personally would be alright listening to reggae with kanas pro with a bit of bass boost. Also I will always and forever rec KZ ES4 for hip hop and reggae. $12 too. But hey its all about personal preferences. I also fully rec EMX500 earbuds. Will set you back a whole $8-$9 but are so smooth and warm with the biggest stage. Great for reggae if you can get on with an earbud.
> 
> BTW, this summer in STL is looking pretty good for reggae. We have The Wailers playing here this month, Ky-Mani Marley next month, and Stephen Marley and Protoje coming in Aug. The wife and I already have our tickets for all of them.


Congrats on getting those concert tickets! I'm sure it will be a blast. Thanks for chiming in with your suggestions. I have also played with the EQ settings on the Hiby app on my phone, and have obtained really good results on the ZS10 PRO and my KanasPro. I'd say I enjoy the KZ more with Reggae than the Moondrop though, as there's a bit more overall warmth with that sound signature. The KanasPro has great low end sub bass but even with EQ there's just not enough mid bass warmth to satisfy me. Usually I'm in love with the KPE for most everything I listen to, but on Reggae it's just not as satisfying. That's not to say it's not good, just that i prefer a bit more of that warm thumpy stuff that Reggae is known for. Is the KZ ES4 an iem or a bud? I don't do earbuds cause I don't like how they just hang out the ears. I need something with a good fit that I can wear over ear to help them stay in my ears


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which headphone amp did you think would be better for KZ's sound signature?
> 
> Liquid Spark measurements:
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...of-monoprice-liquid-spark-headphone-amp.5224/
> ...


I haven't heard either of them, I'm just going on what I've read or watched on YouTube about the two. Zreviews compared both, and said they are both very close, and if he had to say, he thought the Liquid Spark had a bit more warmth to the sound compared to the Atom. Personally, I like the Spark better overall, just based on the build quality. The Atom, with it's plastic case, looks cheap. If JDS changed out the case for something made from metal, I might be more interested in it.


----------



## PhonoPhi

gourab1995 said:


> Sure kz has their hits and misses. But most of their iems lack a sense of refinement. They are thriving due to their insane multi BA configs and bass. Would you have 5 slices of pizza that taste mediocre or 2 slices that taste like heaven? (Slices are drivers)
> 
> On a positive note they certainly are getting better and at a fast rate. With the ZS10 pro and zsn pro coming out.
> 
> ...


Tastes are different, exactly.
I really like BAs compared to DDs and perhaps less refined KZ BAs sound great for me for strings in classical. Not perfect but much closer to live performance when you hear the bow making a sound.

More drivers worked more or less for KZ/CCA since AS10, in my opinion.

I am eagerly awaiting CCA A10


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 6, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Tastes are different, exactly.
> I really like BAs compared to DDs and perhaps less refined KZ BAs sound great for me for strings in classical. Not perfect but much closer to live performance when you hear the bow making a sound.
> 
> More drivers worked more or less for KZ/CCA since AS10, in my opinion.
> ...



Same here hope the a10 turns out to be a more balanced as10.  and there are less sssnakes in the treble region


----------



## PhonoPhi

gourab1995 said:


> Same here hope the a10 turns out to be a more balanced as10.


Since I love my AS10 - any changes are welcome  
I also ordered TRN X6 for a comparison...


----------



## mbwilson111

PhonoPhi said:


> I also ordered TRN X6 for a comparison...



I will be interested in your thoughts after you give it some time.  Such mixed reactions.  I love it.... but I also love others...


----------



## darmanastartes

gourab1995 said:


> Same here hope the a10 turns out to be a more balanced as10.  and there are less sssnakes in the treble region



 
It's not more "balanced," it's just significantly less bass-heavy.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 6, 2019)

darmanastartes said:


> It's not more "balanced," it's just significantly less bass-heavy.



That's a comparison between tp10 and as10 right? Not the a10.


----------



## darmanastartes

gourab1995 said:


> That's a comparison between tp10 and as10 right? Not the a10.


TP10 and A10 are likely identical.


----------



## gourab1995

Bummer. Thanks for the graphs though.



darmanastartes said:


> TP10 and A10 are likely identical.


----------



## Caipirina

All this cable talk made me drool a bit. And I think I deserve something nice ...

Maybe I am blind or my search-fu is failing, but I can’t find a 2.5mm balanced cable for c type KZ (zs10 pro / as16). 

The ones I find look pretty and all, but I fear this connector will look really ugly with the sticky-out part of the above mentioned IEMs 



 

Any leads?


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2019)

UriAvitan said:


> is there a better option up to 20$?



Not really. It’s fairly slim pickins for Para C cables right now.

Besides, it’s not like you’re going to hear some massive sound upgrade between a $12 vs $20 budget cable on a $40 budget KZ.

Just get the one that appeals to you visually and enjoy the music.

I personally like the 8-wire black JC Ally cable I posted originally. It’s thick but not too thick, fairly flexible, fits securely, has a functional chin slider, and is good quality for the price.


----------



## nraymond

Caipirina said:


> All this cable talk made me drool a bit. And I think I deserve something nice ...
> 
> Maybe I am blind or my search-fu is failing, but I can’t find a 2.5mm balanced cable for c type KZ (zs10 pro / as16).
> 
> ...



See my May 16 post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2941#post-14957903


----------



## Slater

raccoon city said:


> Is this the best inexpensive KZ cable?



For Para C, yes you won’t get any better for under $3.


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> All this cable talk made me drool a bit. And I think I deserve something nice ...
> 
> Maybe I am blind or my search-fu is failing, but I can’t find a 2.5mm balanced cable for c type KZ (zs10 pro / as16).
> 
> ...



JC Ally can customize the plug with balanced (2.5, 3.5, or 4.4). You just have to ask them when you place the order for the ZSN style cable.


----------



## raccoon city (Jun 6, 2019)

Slater said:


> For Para C, yes you won’t get any better for under $3.


I ordered Version B for my KZ ES4.
@Slater, what would have been the best budget choice for Version B?


----------



## macky112

twiceboss said:


> Im finding a huge soundstage with punchy bass and also not piercing highs.
> 
> Which one should i get zs10pro, cca c16, kz as16?



I don’t have those 3 you listed, but ZS7 fits what you are looking for


----------



## archdawg

gourab1995 said:


> Wait a minute zs7 shrill? Definitely not shrill. maybe funky tonality but definitely not shrill. If you just got them it may be the case. Even mine were. Almost felt like returning them. They will need a long time to smoothen out. I gave my zs7 about two weeks of play time to accept them. 1 month in, 0 sibilance, still a bit peaky, but tolerable. Also you want to maintain a healthy amount of distance between the nozzle and your ears. ...



Like I've mentioned before: _piercing shrill_ when I got them, no matter what track, source, tips or cable - just like my new ZSA.
Anyway, right now I'm about halfway through my usual, initial 100 hours of burn-in. Just some minutes ago I went through some of my trusty test tracks (been using about half of the latest set for about 25 years) and some of those piercing peaks have definitely settled down a bit, no doubt. In the same time some HF phase issues have settled a bit as well; the spatial dimensions especially of higher pitched instruments or those with dominant HF peaks (brass, strings, cymbals, ...) get rendered more precisely now. Since the rest of the spectrum sounds pretty sweet to my ears I can't wait to hear what the next xy hours of burn-in bring.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> The stock ZS10 Pro cable isn’t that bad.
> 
> But if you’re looking for other cable options for the ZS10 Pro, the copper cable from the purple ZSN is a steal at $3. And for an upgrade option, the 8-wire braided cable from JC Ally is great too. Both are specific to the Para C end, so they’ll only work on ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc.



If the stock cable in the ZS10 Pro is pretty good, would you say the pink ZSN cable is a SQ upgrade over the stock or just for the looks?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

courierdriver said:


> Congrats on getting those concert tickets! I'm sure it will be a blast. Thanks for chiming in with your suggestions. I have also played with the EQ settings on the Hiby app on my phone, and have obtained really good results on the ZS10 PRO and my KanasPro. I'd say I enjoy the KZ more with Reggae than the Moondrop though, as there's a bit more overall warmth with that sound signature. The KanasPro has great low end sub bass but even with EQ there's just not enough mid bass warmth to satisfy me. Usually I'm in love with the KPE for most everything I listen to, but on Reggae it's just not as satisfying. That's not to say it's not good, just that i prefer a bit more of that warm thumpy stuff that Reggae is known for. Is the KZ ES4 an iem or a bud? I don't do earbuds cause I don't like how they just hang out the ears. I need something with a good fit that I can wear over ear to help them stay in my ears



Its an IEM. 
 

Also a really hood all rounder that does very well with reggae as well as just about everything imaginable, is the CCA C10. About $24 now. It kind of fits right in the middle of all categories. Smooth but not too smooth. Has bass but not too much bass. Mids are really where it shines and there is enough upper mids and treble energy to allow for enjoyable(too me) listening of metal and punk.


----------



## Caipirina

nraymond said:


> See my May 16 post:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2941#post-14957903





Slater said:


> JC Ally can customize the plug with balanced (2.5, 3.5, or 4.4). You just have to ask them when you place the order for. the ZSN style cable.




Thanks guys! That was very prompt help. It appears those 2 are the exact same cable. (One offer had free shipping  )

I am just still a bit worried about shoving a .78 into .75 holes .. repeatedly.  I like to switch around cables / bt thingies ... but at least for now I have options in my cart.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 6, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I will be interested in your thoughts after you give it some time.  Such mixed reactions.  I love it.... but I also love others...


Will sure do! 
I hope, if I find time, to compare A10 & X6, as well as C16, AS10 & BA10 all-BAs IEMs.

I have seen some of X6 reviews, while ordering  but then there are different opinions and tastes...


----------



## Slater

Caipirina said:


> I am just still a bit worried about shoving a .78 into .75 holes .. repeatedly.



I used to worry about it. But after years and years I've never had a problem with 0.78mm cables on 0.75mm IEMs (or vice versa).


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> If the stock cable in the ZS10 Pro is pretty good, would you say the pink ZSN cable is a SQ upgrade over the stock or just for the looks?



I don't hear a sound difference, but my ears are by no means perfect.

It is thicker wire (more conductive), so from that point of view it's a 'better' cable. And it definitely feels more substantial in your hand.

I would say if you like the looks of it, go for it. It's not even $3.


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2019)

raccoon city said:


> I ordered Version B for my KZ ES4.
> @Slater, what would have been the best budget choice for Version B?



There's really no 1 single best choice for B style IEMs. There's good cables that will fit B IEMs at numerous price points. So your budget will really dictate the 'best' budget cable.

*Also, be aware that there's cables designed for recessed and non-recessed 2-pin sockets. That's something a lot of people aren't even aware of, yet it's very important.*

See how the ends are different on these cables? They're both 2-pin cables, right?




Both types will technically 'fit' the pins of the IEMs, but one will stick up and the other will fit flush. It all depends on if your IEM has a recessed socket or not. Some IEMs need recessed, and others don't. Some cables only come as recessed, and others don't. If you get a non-recessed cable and you have a recessed IEM, the cable won't be secure and may fall out. That's why it's difficult/impossible to just blanket recommend a 'one-size-fits-all best cable'. There's many factors involved.

If you buy a non-recessed cable, but your IEM is recessed, you can mod the cable by filing the end down to get it to fit (as seen here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...uck-cable-thread.891911/page-89#post-14938207). But it's _infinitely_ easier to just buy the correct type of cable in the 1st place.


----------



## GSTtaggedLDHProtein

Tripowin TP10 sounds very similar to the KZ AS16 IMO, with a bit more bass and a slight treble peak. At $70, it's a lot more worth it IMO.


----------



## raccoon city (Jun 6, 2019)

Speaking of "my" KZ ES4...
It was delivered today!
It has the right amount of bass for me.
It has more bass and sounds way better than my KZ ATE-S.
It has more bass and sounds better than my iLuv IEP322, the IEM that used to be my favorite.
(By the way, the IEP322 is very hard to come by now, and its build quality is not-so-great.)
In other words, the ES4 is my new favorite IEM, and that's with the stock cable!


----------



## raccoon city

Also, I forgot to mention...
The ES4's wire is supposed to wrap around the top of your ear, but I just put the eartip in my ear and don't wrap the wire.
It's simpler, and it works for me.


----------



## raccoon city (Jun 6, 2019)

Slater said:


> There's really no 1 single best choice for B style IEMs. There's good cables that will fit B IEMs at numerous price points. So your budget will really dictate the 'best' budget cable.
> 
> *Also, be aware that there's cables designed for recessed and non-recessed 2-pin sockets. That's something a lot of people aren't even aware of, yet it's very important.*


Okay, well the copper one is dirt cheap, made my KZ, and looks attractive, so I'll start with that one since I've already ordered it.


----------



## bhazard

Got the KZ AptX-HD cable today. Working great and sounds excellent. Well worth the ~$20.

On a side note, I'm surprised my Galaxy S10 no longer supports (or never supported) Apt-HD, only Aptx. I'm pretty sure the S9+ did.
My Xiaomi Mi 9 has it too. Samsung is really dropping the ball lately.


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2019)

bhazard said:


> Got the KZ AptX-HD cable today. Working great and sounds excellent. Well worth the ~$20.
> 
> On a side note, I'm surprised my Galaxy S10 no longer supports (or never supported) Apt-HD, only Aptx. I'm pretty sure the S9+ did.
> My Xiaomi Mi 9 has it too. Samsung is really dropping the ball lately.



Maybe it depends on which exact Qualcomm chip they used? Or perhaps you have to enable something in developer options (or some other setting in the phone)?

So you’re saying KZ finally made a good Bluetooth cable? If so, that’s really good news.


----------



## moisespr123

bhazard said:


> Got the KZ AptX-HD cable today. Working great and sounds excellent. Well worth the ~$20.
> 
> On a side note, I'm surprised my Galaxy S10 no longer supports (or never supported) Apt-HD, only Aptx. I'm pretty sure the S9+ did.
> My Xiaomi Mi 9 has it too. Samsung is really dropping the ball lately.



I have the S9+. It's just plain AptX...

Also, I'm finding the voice prompts kind of loud... But the audio quality itself is great.


----------



## Veyska

bhazard said:


> Got the KZ AptX-HD cable today. Working great and sounds excellent. Well worth the ~$20.
> 
> On a side note, I'm surprised my Galaxy S10 no longer supports (or never supported) Apt-HD, only Aptx. I'm pretty sure the S9+ did.
> My Xiaomi Mi 9 has it too. Samsung is really dropping the ball lately.


Which storefront did you get it from?  I contacted the KZ store asking if/when they were planning to restock since I didn't want to risk getting a bum audio version and their response was they don't have any in stock now.  >->  (That's why I contacted them in the first place...)


----------



## bhazard

Slater said:


> Maybe it depends on which exact Qualcomm chip they used? Or perhaps you have to enable something in developer options (or some other setting in the phone)?
> 
> So you’re saying KZ finally made a good Bluetooth cable? If so, that’s really good news.



Yep. I had the original and this one is much better. Actual AptX-HD. I haven't seen many others that do Aptx-HD on the market.



Veyska said:


> Which storefront did you get it from?  I contacted the KZ store asking if/when they were planning to restock since I didn't want to risk getting a bum audio version and their response was they don't have any in stock now.  >->  (That's why I contacted them in the first place...)



LuckLZ Audio Store


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> Its an IEM.
> 
> 
> Also a really hood all rounder that does very well with reggae as well as just about everything imaginable, is the CCA C10. About $24 now. It kind of fits right in the middle of all categories. Smooth but not too smooth. Has bass but not too much bass. Mids are really where it shines and there is enough upper mids and treble energy to allow for enjoyable(too me) listening of metal and punk.


Thanks! I've got them in my cart on Ali. I've already got a balanced TRN cable that has never been used that would fit them nicely. Thanks, again. These might be the set I use exclusively for Reggae and metal.


----------



## courierdriver

Caipirina said:


> Thanks guys! That was very prompt help. It appears those 2 are the exact same cable. (One offer had free shipping  )
> 
> I am just still a bit worried about shoving a .78 into .75 holes .. repeatedly.  I like to switch around cables / bt thingies ... but at least for now I have options in my cart.


I've got the JCally in 2.5 hooked to my ZS10 Pro and it sounds great. It was easy to install. I'm not too worried about the .75/ .78 thing anymore. I don't think there's enough of a difference to make the cables not function correctly. At least from my recent experience.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

courierdriver said:


> Thanks! I've got them in my cart on Ali. I've already got a balanced TRN cable that has never been used that would fit them nicely. Thanks, again. These might be the set I use exclusively for Reggae and metal.


I also use balanced with my CCA C10. Hope you like them.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> I've got the JCally in 2.5 hooked to my ZS10 Pro and it sounds great. It was easy to install. I'm not too worried about the .75/ .78 thing anymore. *I don't think there's enough of a difference to make the cables not function correctly. At least from my recent experience.*



That’s pretty much what I found.

BTW, I removed the ear guides on my black 8-wire JC Ally ZSN cable to make them more comfortable.

I even found out that on some of the thick 4-wire cables, they actually use TWO layers of ear guides. In other words, there’s the wire, covered in a preformed ear guide, covered in ANOTHER layer of preformed ear guide material. Why is beyond me. It makes the ear guide ridiculously thick, which is BS because the wire is already thick as heck. So on 1 of my 4-wire cables (mmcx one) I removed the outer most ear guide layer, and on the other (ZSN one) I removed both layers.

I just figured I’d mention it, because I know the JC Ally cables are becoming more popular, and there are those of us that like to remove the ear guides for comfort. All of the JC Ally cables are thick and heavy enough that they don’t even need ear guides at all.


----------



## courierdriver (Jun 6, 2019)

Slater said:


> That’s pretty much what I found.
> 
> BTW, I removed the ear guides on my black 8-wire JC Ally ZSN cable to make them more comfortable.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for this info, @Slater! I've kinda been wondering about that very thing. I DO kinda find the pre formed earhook a bit uncomfortable, especially because I also wear eyeglasses, and the extra cable thickness behind my stems is a lot to jam behind my ears! It's kinda like how rather uncomfortable my ISN Audio C16 is with my Kanas Pro...and that cable doesn't even have ear hooks...it's just thick!Don't get me wrong...I love how these cables sound and look, but they do kinda hurt my ears a bit quicker than the skinnier supplied cables. I wouldn't mind if the ear hooks were gone from my JCALLY cable. How did you safely do this, without cutting or somehow ruining your cable?


----------



## Slater (Jun 6, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Thanks very much for this info, @Slater! I've kinda been wondering about that very thing. I DO kinda find the pre formed earhook a bit uncomfortable, especially because I also wear eyeglasses, and the extra cable thickness behind my stems is a lot to jam behind my ears! It's kinda like how rather uncomfortable my ISN Audio C16 is with my Kanas Pro...and that cable doesn't even have ear hooks...it's just thick!Don't get me wrong...I love how these cables sound and look, but they do kinda hurt my ears a bit quicker than the skinnier supplied cables. I wouldn't mind if the ear hooks were gone from my JCALLY cable. How did you safely do this, without cutting or somehow ruining your cable?



I'm a glasses wearer, and you hit the nail on the head as to the reason why I usually remove my ear guides.

As far as removing the guides, for KZ cables with the actual memory wire, I use the method I outlined in the How2 on audioreviews.org.

For the rubber pre-formed guides, the key is really small, really narrow/pointy scissors. I use these scissors:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sta...Beauty-Mini-Small-Bend-Blade/32857380449.html

The scissors I posted are like 3" long, and the blades are really narrow and come to a really sharp point. The points are perfect to fit under the rubbery ear guide sheath, and give a lot of control.

You can also use specialized sewing scissors (such as 'embroidery scissors' or 'thread snip scissors'), or Fiskars makes really nice 'micro tip craft scissors'. All have the narrow/pointy blades that are required for the task.

I slip the sharp point of the scissors under the very edge of the ear guides (making sure to go BETWEEN the wires), and I snip a very small amount of the wire guide rubber. So for example I snip maybe 2mm, then I tear the rubber away with my fingers. Then I snip maybe 2mm more, then I tear the rubber away with my fingers. Eventually it's all removed.


----------



## Assimilator702

raccoon city said:


> Speaking of "my" KZ ES4...
> It was delivered today!
> It has the right amount of bass for me.
> It has more bass and sounds way better than my KZ ATE-S.
> ...



If you like the ES4 try the ZSN, ZSN PRO or CCA CA4. They’re all better than the ES4. My biggest gripe about the ES4 is the housing tends to pop out of my ears. The ZSN and ZSN PRO fit like a glove. Sound wise the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a bit better than the CA4 and it’s nice to have both on hand due to the slightly different tuning in the upper midrange which depending on the recording one will do better than the other. When it comes to big bass the ZSN PRO have a bit more grunt than the ZSN. One nice thing about the ZSN is if you get the Silver/Purple,  it comes with the nice copper colored cable. I have a ZSN in Black but I plan on getting a Silver/Purple on AliExpress since it’s less than $14 and worth so much more than that. Listening to the new Arch/Matheo on the ZSN and it suits the very Protools style recording so well. ZSN and ZSN PRO are VERY GOOD with most Metal and amazing in electronic music with lots of bass and crazy electronic effects. 

If the ES4 was a no brainer @ $19 back in September.....the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a steal even @ $23 each.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I'm a glasses wearer, and you hit the nail on the head as to the reason why I usually remove my ear guides.
> 
> As far as removing the guides, for KZ cables with the actual memory wire, I use the method I outlined in the How2 on audioreviews.org.
> 
> ...


 Thanks! I've got a couple of sets of those scissors...or at least something similar. They are also called "manicure" or "personal grooming" scissors. I've used them for years. Thanks...I'm gonna try this mod soon. I'm also seriously thinking of getting a smaller 8 core for my KanasPro. I really like the C16 but it's a bit too bulky and heavy. Got great BLING factor to it tho. Self admitted cable slut, here! Lol!


----------



## courierdriver

Assimilator702 said:


> If you like the ES4 try the ZSN, ZSN PRO or CCA CA4. They’re all better than the ES4. My biggest gripe about the ES4 is the housing tends to pop out of my ears. The ZSN and ZSN PRO fit like a glove. Sound wise the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a bit better than the CA4 and it’s nice to have both on hand due to the slightly different tuning in the upper midrange which depending on the recording one will do better than the other. When it comes to big bass the ZSN PRO have a bit more grunt than the ZSN. One nice thing about the ZSN is if you get the Silver/Purple,  it comes with the nice copper colored cable. I have a ZSN in Black but I plan on getting a Silver/Purple on AliExpress since it’s less than $14 and worth so much more than that. Listening to the new Arch/Matheo on the ZSN and it suits the very Protools style recording so well. ZSN and ZSN PRO are VERY GOOD with most Metal and amazing in electronic music with lots of bass and crazy electronic effects.
> 
> If the ES4 was a no brainer @ $19 back in September.....the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a steal even @ $23 each.


Thanks for the rec! But dang it! Now I got something else to consider. Too many options these days...my brain feels like it's gonna explode! I was considering the ZSN PRO a couple of weeks ago, but I decided on the ZS10 Pro instead. I like that set alot, but looking  more for a fuller, warmer bass from Reggae music. Still got my eye on the ES4  cause it's a bit less expensive and I already have a balanced cable to fit it. The ZSN PRO would require me to buy another C-type cable, and I don't think I want to add to the extra cost to the set. I would only use the set for warm, bass heavy stuff like Reggae, so for everything else, I think my ZS10 Pro will be fine.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 7, 2019)

I just received my Moondrop Crescent and I look forward to comparing it with my KZ's like the ZS6 v2 soon,  For you all.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Been listening to the KZ ED9 the past three days and I completely understand why these get so much love around here! I find myself really enjoying them, especially  with the "bass" nozzles. Pretty impressive stuff for less than 9 bucks <mindblown>.



Only thing that bothers me is that the mesh inside gets torn when screwing and unscrewing the nozzles. I think it's because the mesh diameter is too big. Will probably replace them with 3,8 - 4,00 mm ones.


----------



## archdawg

courierdriver said:


> The ZSN PRO would require me to buy another C-type cable, and I don't think I want to add to the extra cost to the set. I would only use the set for warm, bass heavy stuff like Reggae, so for everything else, I think my ZS10 Pro will be fine.


At the current going rate the ZSN Pro are a bl..dy steal IMO. Heck, I payed $300 for my first set of single BA Shures about 12 years ago and still can't believe they're selling something like the ZSN Pro for €12 or the **** for less than 16€ these days.


----------



## hakuzen (Jun 7, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Is there any guide out here about how to make a personal custom cable?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread.676402/ ?



UriAvitan said:


> how those compare to the options you gave?:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/***...220523.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56143c0073aOia
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NIC...355990.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.56143c0073aOia
> ...


the problem is that the cables from your links don't use C-type termination (zsn, zsn pro, zs10 pro). you can use them, but the connection won't be as short, tight, and safe than when using C-type (specially the two first ones, which have protruding 2pins termination). the cables from the links i provided allow C-type termination.
to know which cables from my lists allow C-type terminations, check for word "tC" at cables for KZs sections.



Zune said:


> I'm using a JCally balanced cable on my ZS10 Pro's and I'm really liking it but it's mentioned in the HiBy R6 thread that it's wired wrong for the ZS10 Pro's. It's reversed in it's wiring and wired for QDC. To my inexperienced ears the sound is improved over the unbalanced stock cable. Does anyone else think it's not right and sounds wrong?


jcally cables use QDC polarization (inverse of KZs). as both sides (left and right) use same polarization, there are not out-of-phase issues, no sound issues.
you could get problems if the components used into the iem were polarized components. but the resistors and capacitors used in the crossover of KZ iems atm are not polarized. so you are safe with these cables.


----------



## nxnje

hakuzen said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread.676402/ ?



Thanks a lot!!


----------



## archdawg (Jun 7, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is that the cheapest/closest way to get to state of the art high quality sound for our KZ's?


I bought a tiny Hidizs USB DAC for my phone and laptop some months ago and couldn't be more happy - seriously. These thingies sell for ~$30 on AE, sound really great (clear, spacious, ...) and drive any of my IEMs and larger cans including my picky AKG K712 Pro without breaking a sweat.


----------



## Zune

hakuzen said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread.676402/ ?
> 
> 
> the problem is that the cables from your links don't use C-type termination (zsn, zsn pro, zs10 pro). you can use them, but the connection won't be as short, tight, and safe than when using C-type (specially the two first ones, which have protruding 2pins termination). the cables from the links i provided allow C-type termination.
> ...



Thank you for replying and the reassurance hakuzen. I'm happy with the sound but my ears are untrained. I was using KZ ATR's for a few hours doing some gardening and then switched over to the ZS10 Pro's on the JCally cable once i got back inside the they rocked. The isolation on the 10 Pro's compared to the earbuds i've been using for years is amazing.


----------



## Nimweth

Late to the party I know but ED9 arrived today. Dull gold nozzles sounded very neutral and similar to the KBEAR F1. Changed to the shiny nozzles and got a fun V tuning with Spiral Dots fitted. Surprisingly sophisticated sound for £8. Am burning in along with the Lindy Cromo IEM 75. I'm finding that the ED9 need quite a bit of power to give of their best.


----------



## archdawg

Three days into the burn-in of my ZS7 and yes ... that piercing shrillness is almost gone, just a few weaker treble peaks left here and there, more spatial precision throughout the spectrum (less halos) and I can finally really enjoy these IEMs. Now that everything sounds far more relaxed I replaced the braided 8-core KZ cable with the grayish 8-core Kinboofi that doesn't seem to work that well with the ZS6, at least when it comes to clarity. I'm still amazed by the perceptual transparency I get from my older, grey ZS6 with this KZ cable (on my standard rig with good recordings); any of the other cables I've tried literally don't cut it for me.
On the ZS7 it seems the other way around albeit less distinctive than on the 6s - slightly better clarity with the Kinboofi compared to the KZ cable. 




 

Anyway, after some more days on my ears and the burn-in rig (@ much higher volumes) this combo could turn into my new #1 for all sorts of house, UK garage and hip hop vibes (bass, bass, bass) but jazz doesn't sound too bad either through those guys.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Nimweth said:


> Late to the party I know but ED9 arrived today. Dull gold nozzles sounded very neutral and similar to the KBEAR F1. Changed to the shiny nozzles and got a fun V tuning with Spiral Dots fitted. Surprisingly sophisticated sound for £8. Am burning in along with the Lindy Cromo IEM 75. I'm finding that the ED9 need quite a bit of power to give of their best.


the ed9 is sensitve and get plenty loud with just a mobile, but the low end will tighten considerably with more juice (i feel the same about the edr1). i'm also a shiny filter guy although most here are dull brass (which is not intended to otherwise malign their characters)


----------



## paulwasabii

Assimilator702 said:


> If you like the ES4 try the ZSN, ZSN PRO or CCA CA4. They’re all better than the ES4. My biggest gripe about the ES4 is the housing tends to pop out of my ears. The ZSN and ZSN PRO fit like a glove. Sound wise the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a bit better than the CA4 and it’s nice to have both on hand due to the slightly different tuning in the upper midrange which depending on the recording one will do better than the other. When it comes to big bass the ZSN PRO have a bit more grunt than the ZSN. One nice thing about the ZSN is if you get the Silver/Purple,  it comes with the nice copper colored cable. I have a ZSN in Black but I plan on getting a Silver/Purple on AliExpress since it’s less than $14 and worth so much more than that. Listening to the new Arch/Matheo on the ZSN and it suits the very Protools style recording so well. ZSN and ZSN PRO are VERY GOOD with most Metal and amazing in electronic music with lots of bass and crazy electronic effects.
> 
> If the ES4 was a no brainer @ $19 back in September.....the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a steal even @ $23 each.



I heard about the purple cable and I believe it is the $3 one @Slater linked me to a couple pages back.  Look on aliexpress for the kz gold pink and you will see this bright copper cable.


----------



## Assimilator702

archdawg said:


> Three days into the burn-in of my ZS7 and yes ... that piercing shrillness is almost gone, just a few weaker treble peaks left here and there, more spatial precision throughout the spectrum (less halos) and I can finally really enjoy these IEMs. Now that everything sounds far more relaxed I replaced the braided 8-core KZ cable with the grayish 8-core Kinboofi that doesn't seem to work that well with the ZS6, at least when it comes to clarity. I'm still amazed by the perceptual transparency I get from my older, grey ZS6 with this KZ cable (on my standard rig with good recordings); any of the other cables I've tried literally don't cut it for me.
> On the ZS7 it seems the other way around albeit less distinctive than on the 6s - slightly better clarity with the Kinboofi compared to the KZ cable.
> 
> 
> ...



So what’s your responses the hordes of people that will argue until blue in the face that burn in isn’t a thing? I’m just surprised that this thread doesn’t get attacked for even mentioning driver burn in.  And FYI for budget gear I believe burn in does allow the drivers to loosen up and settle into their working parameters. It works and is a thing for subwoofers why not small speakers?


----------



## Assimilator702

paulwasabii said:


> I heard about the purple cable and I believe it is the $3 one @Slater linked me to a couple pages back.  Look on aliexpress for the kz gold pink and you will see this bright copper cable.



If you’re spending $3 and waiting 2 weeks or more you might as well spend $13.50 and get the ZSN that includes it. That’s what I’m doing once my A10 arrive.


----------



## Zerohour88

Assimilator702 said:


> So what’s your responses the hordes of people that will argue until blue in the face that burn in isn’t a thing? I’m just surprised that this thread doesn’t get attacked for even mentioning driver burn in.  And FYI for budget gear I believe burn in does allow the drivers to loosen up and settle into their working parameters. It works and is a thing for subwoofers why not small speakers?



simple, bring that argument somewhere else. That's why we keep insisting to bring any discussion on such issues to the appropriate thread (this has been a problem for all audiophile forums, from cheapo stuff like KZ to high-end brands like Dita). 

Its not to "pre-emptively curtailing any conversation that might be deemed by someone else (other message board members, admins etc.) to be disruptive or upsetting" as one poster put it, but to avoid it turning into a flame war (as it almost always turn into).

Fine, you think its something worth to discuss. We simply ask you to do that somewhere else. 

If you believe that burn-in is a thing, then believe the impression about burn-in. If not, then don't. Discussing whether it exists or not will simply lead nowhere.


----------



## Assimilator702

courierdriver said:


> Thanks for the rec! But dang it! Now I got something else to consider. Too many options these days...my brain feels like it's gonna explode! I was considering the ZSN PRO a couple of weeks ago, but I decided on the ZS10 Pro instead. I like that set alot, but looking  more for a fuller, warmer bass from Reggae music. Still got my eye on the ES4  cause it's a bit less expensive and I already have a balanced cable to fit it. The ZSN PRO would require me to buy another C-type cable, and I don't think I want to add to the extra cost to the set. I would only use the set for warm, bass heavy stuff like Reggae, so for everything else, I think my ZS10 Pro will be fine.



Well if you have the ZS10 PRO you already know how the form factor fits your ears. If you’re still thinking of getting the ES4 don’t bother and go straight to the ZSN op ZSN PRO. If you buy them both on Aliexpress you’ll pay less than $30. If you get them on Amazon it’ll cost you $45. For some reason the ZSN PRO is less expensive than the ZSN. I’ll probably never listen to my ES4 again after having all these new KZ iems.


----------



## nraymond

Assimilator702 said:


> So what’s your responses the hordes of people that will argue until blue in the face that burn in isn’t a thing? I’m just surprised that this thread doesn’t get attacked for even mentioning driver burn in.  And FYI for budget gear I believe burn in does allow the drivers to loosen up and settle into their working parameters. It works and is a thing for subwoofers why not small speakers?



Don't worry about it, unless you like spoilers.



Spoiler



The reason why so many people talk about burn-in here is because they are doing sighted listening and that is affecting their perceptions, and this isn't going to stop because most of the people in this forum are not sound engineers and there is no money on the line that would encourage them to be objective, this is a hobby for most and most just want to believe what they want to believe. As Sean Olive concluded in "The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests" http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html:

"In summary, the sighted and blind loudspeaker listening tests in this study produced significantly different sound quality ratings. The psychological biases in the sighted tests were sufficiently strong that listeners were largely unresponsive to real changes in sound quality caused by acoustical interactions between the loudspeaker, its position in the room, and the program material. In other words, if you want to obtain an accurate and reliable measure of how the audio product truly sounds, the listening test must be done blind. It’s time the audio industry grow up and acknowledge this fact, if it wants to retain the trust and respect of consumers."

Tyll Hertsens tried to measure headphone burn-in and couldn't:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break

Now I'm not saying that headphone burn-in is impossible, but since there is yet to be any data to back it up, and there is tremendous data that indicates that sighted listening has massive effects on people's perception of sound, the logical thing to do is to not assume burn-in is physical and instead assume it is probably a mental/personal bias situation. But most people are not logical, so I don't expect this to change. Also the forum moderators have chosen to separate out the topic and things like it since some people were not demonstrating civility, so there's not much possibility of larger dialog on this topic so it's even less likely to change.


----------



## Assimilator702

Zerohour88 said:


> simple, bring that argument somewhere else. That's why we keep insisting to bring any discussion on such issues to the appropriate thread (this has been a problem for all audiophile forums, from cheapo stuff like KZ to high-end brands like Dita).
> 
> Its not to "pre-emptively curtailing any conversation that might be deemed by someone else (other message board members, admins etc.) to be disruptive or upsetting" as one poster put it, but to avoid it turning into a flame war (as it almost always turn into).
> 
> ...



No not at all. I DONT  think it’s worth discussing or arguing since that only leads to a pointless back and forth that goes nowhere. I was simply asking what happens when and if people counter the argument HERE since it’s mentioned often and I’ve never seen the ending counter arguement that usually accompanies.  I haven’t followed this thread from the beginning and it is kind of on the large size. Not sure why you thought I was trying to bring the argument or discussion to this thread.

It’s comparable to say an entire block being attacked by looters and rioters. Every house is ransacked and destroyed but one guy is standing in front of his untouched home. A simple curiosity.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jun 7, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> No not at all. I DONT  think it’s worth discussing or arguing since that only leads to a pointless back and forth that goes nowhere. I was simply asking what happens when and if people counter the argument HERE since it’s mentioned often and I’ve never seen the ending counter arguement that usually accompanies.  I haven’t followed this thread from the beginning and it is kind of on the large size. Not sure why you thought I was trying to bring the argument or discussion to this thread.
> 
> It’s comparable to say an entire block being attacked by looters and rioters. Every house is ransacked and destroyed but one guy is standing in front of his untouched home. A simple curiosity.



FYI, I didn't think you were trying to bring any argument here. I was simply answering your question on what would happen if someone were to bring it here, "take it to the appropriate thread".

EDIT: and it seems someone needs reminding of that as I was typing, lol.


----------



## archdawg

Assimilator702 said:


> So what’s your responses the hordes of people that will argue until blue in the face that burn in isn’t a thing?


They seriously need to grow up - as simple as that. I just wrote a couple lines about some individual, subjective experiences with a technical process; one of the raisons d'etre of this great thread - c'est ca.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 7, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> Well if you have the ZS10 PRO you already know how the form factor fits your ears. If you’re still thinking of getting the ES4 don’t bother and go straight to the ZSN op ZSN PRO. If you buy them both on Aliexpress you’ll pay less than $30. If you get them on Amazon it’ll cost you $45. For some reason the ZSN PRO is less expensive than the ZSN. I’ll probably never listen to my ES4 again after having all these new KZ iems.


Guy wanted a rec on an IEM for listening to Reggae music on. I love zsn, but honestly your advice is terrible. ZSN is bass light, with forward mids and aggressive upper mids/ lower treble. Not really what most people want in a relaxing smooth music built around a massive low end foundation, and male vocals. Almost exact opposite really. Dude already has ZS10 pro so zsn/pro is probably redundant at this point.

Of course just my opinion. 

ZSN works well for Punk rock, Garage Rock, Thrash as its pretty "in your face" aggressive. The forward mids, and the somewhat harshy treble make the distorted guitars sound great imo. They obviously can do other genres, but I find vocals a tad weak and the bass is seriously lacking for more bass heavy genres imo.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> Guy wanted a rec on an IEM for listening to Reggae music on. I love zsn, but honestly your advice is terrible. ZSN is bass light, with forward mids and aggressive upper mids/ lower treble. Not really what most people want in a relaxing smooth music built around a massive low end foundation, and male vocals. Almost exact opposite really. Dude already has ZS10 pro so zsn/pro is probably redundant at this point.
> 
> Of course just my opinion.
> 
> ZSN works well for Punk rock, Garage Rock, Thrash as its pretty "in your face" aggressive. The forward mids, and the somewhat harshy treble make the distorted guitars sound great imo. They obviously can do other genres, but I find vocals a tad weak and the bass is seriously lacking for more bass heavy genres imo.


First off, thanks to everyone who responded to my question. @Assimilator702...Yeah, I already have the ZS10 PRO which I think are already an upgrade in all areas from the ZSN or ZSN PRO. I can EQ my ZS10 PRO, and be very happy with them for Reggae. I'm just looking for a set that I will use just for Reggae (without the need for EQ) and probably nothing else. I've also got a balanced 2.5 TRN cable that I bought a couple of months ago that will fit into a recessed 2 pin socket, that I'd like to make use of. So, I don't really think that ZSN/ZSN PRO is what I want. @BadReligionPunk...thanks for the rec! Got the the ES4 in my Ali cart for less than $16 Canadian, combined with a nice little case bundle. I'll probably get them this week. Only thing is...are they really big housings, and how's the stem length? I can't take big housings (that's why I like the smaller one on ZS10 PRO  and KanasPro). No use in buying something that is too big, falls out, or is uncomfortable for my ears. Any thoughts?


----------



## Mouseman

courierdriver said:


> First off, thanks to everyone who responded to my question. @Assimilator702...Yeah, I already have the ZS10 PRO which I think are already an upgrade in all areas from the ZSN or ZSN PRO. I can EQ my ZS10 PRO, and be very happy with them for Reggae. I'm just looking for a set that I will use just for Reggae (without the need for EQ) and probably nothing else. I've also got a balanced 2.5 TRN cable that I bought a couple of months ago that will fit into a recessed 2 pin socket, that I'd like to make use of. So, I don't really think that ZSN/ZSN PRO is what I want. @BadReligionPunk...thanks for the rec! Got the the ES4 in my Ali cart for less than $16 Canadian, combined with a nice little case bundle. I'll probably get them this week. Only thing is...are they really big housings, and how's the stem length? I can't take big housings (that's why I like the smaller one on ZS10 PRO  and KanasPro). No use in buying something that is too big, falls out, or is uncomfortable for my ears. Any thoughts?


I think the ES4 housing is pretty big. It's not AS10 big, but I find it uncomfortable. Between the size of the shell and the shape, they're not very comfortable for long seasons of Third World and pick your Marley kid (I'll take Damian).

I like the ZS10 Pros a lot, their shape and size are great. I'd think for reggae you'd probably want something with a dynamic driver or a hybrid to handle the bass thunp. The only ones in the lower range price I can think of have MMCX or non-removable cables.


----------



## courierdriver

Mouseman said:


> I think the ES4 housing is pretty big. It's not AS10 big, but I find it uncomfortable. Between the size of the shell and the shape, they're not very comfortable for long seasons of Third World and pick your Marley kid (I'll take Damian).
> 
> I like the ZS10 Pros a lot, their shape and size are great. I'd think for reggae you'd probably want something with a dynamic driver or a hybrid to handle the bass thunp. The only ones in the lower range price I can think of have MMCX or non-removable cables.


Yeah, after some thought, I think I'm just gonna stay with my ZS10 Pro  and EQ them when I need a lift in the bass/mid bass. They're comfy enough for me, and they really respond well to EQ. Gonna stick with them till the Aliexpress sale in November. I may get single DD driver type like from TFZ or something. I wanna save my coin for now, because I need a DAP first, so I can free up my phone again from a dac/amp stack. I'm gonna get a Fiio M11. I really like both my KanasPro and ZS10 Pro, and don't really need another set of iems right now. Better to put the money towards a better source at this point. So that's what I am gonna do. Thanks again to all who have responded. This is a great community, and I will be exploring more KZ's/CCA's in the future, I'm sure. For now though, I gotta cool my jets and focus on a DAP.


----------



## dairy

Mouseman said:


> I think the ES4 housing is pretty big. It's not AS10 big, but I find it uncomfortable. Between the size of the shell and the shape, they're not very comfortable for long seasons of Third World and pick your Marley kid (I'll take Damian).
> 
> I like the ZS10 Pros a lot, their shape and size are great. I'd think for reggae you'd probably want something with a dynamic driver or a hybrid to handle the bass thunp. The only ones in the lower range price I can think of have MMCX or non-removable cables.



I found the ES4s quite uncomfortable too. The stem is of good length, but I found that because it is quite wide, it had a hard time fitting without getting uncomfortable quickly. I also couldn't handle the upper mid-range hump on the ES4s, which made vocals quite harsh. Not sure if you are set on getting a set of KZs, but something like the Final Audio E3000s seem to fit your needs for a warm IEM with good bass (no detachable cable though).


----------



## Assimilator702 (Jun 8, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Guy wanted a rec on an IEM for listening to Reggae music on. I love zsn, but honestly your advice is terrible. ZSN is bass light, with forward mids and aggressive upper mids/ lower treble. Not really what most people want in a relaxing smooth music built around a massive low end foundation, and male vocals. Almost exact opposite really. Dude already has ZS10 pro so zsn/pro is probably redundant at this point.
> 
> Of course just my opinion.
> 
> ZSN works well for Punk rock, Garage Rock, Thrash as its pretty "in your face" aggressive. The forward mids, and the somewhat harshy treble make the distorted guitars sound great imo. They obviously can do other genres, but I find vocals a tad weak and the bass is seriously lacking for more bass heavy genres imo.



My advice to try the ZSN is based off his plan on getting the ES4. The ZSN and ZSN PRO are better than the ES4 across the board. And if you think ZSN is bass light I don’t know how to respond to that. ZSN and ZSN PRO have never sounded lacking in the bass department. Some would argue it’s bass heavy.

I’ve played every genre on both ZSN and ZSN PRO and I don’t see how you could think they aren’t good for multiple genres. In your face or not......what’s the difference? If it fits the track what’s the issue? They handle Black Metal, Death, Thrash, Power Metal, Classic Rock, Vocal Jazz, Jazz Fusion, Hip Hop, Electronic music, standard pop. I found no serious issues with several styles of classical. maybe not the most technical but certainly musical.

Not to mention I’m recommending a $21 to $22 iem that’s a tremendous performer. Anyone that’s curious about either owes it to themselves to hear at least one of them.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 8, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> My advice to try the ZSN is based off his plan on getting the ES4. The ZSN and ZSN PRO are better than the ES4 across the board. And if you think ZSN is bass light I don’t know how to respond to that. ZSN and ZSN PRO have never sounded lacking in the bass department. Some would argue it’s bass heavy.
> 
> I’ve played every genre on both ZSN and ZSN PRO and I don’t see how you could think they aren’t good for multiple genres. In your face or not......what’s the difference? If it fits the track what’s the issue? They handle Black Metal, Death, Thrash, Power Metal, Classic Rock, Vocal Jazz, Jazz Fusion, Hip Hop, Electronic music, standard pop. I found no serious issues with several styles of classical. maybe not the most technical but certainly musical.
> 
> Not to mention I’m recommending a $21 to $22 iem that’s a tremendous performer. Anyone that’s curious about either owes it to themselves to hear at least one of them.



You are right in saying that the zsn pro is better in general for most genres. But specifically for reggae music. Even i think the ES4 is a much more capable and suitable iem. The sound signature complements reggae music very well, better than the zsn pro even. ES4 have that warmth to them and a big bass, along with forward mids. While the zsn are mostly v shaped and light sounding relative to the ES4.

In terms of comfort ES4 doesn't have that much of a strong suit. Highly dependent on the fit you get. It fits pretty flush for me. On the plus side no hard or metallic edges are there.


----------



## nxnje

ZSN Pro is sure musical.
Not technically exceptional like other IEMs on its price range (under 20 usd we can find some good choices which are technically better) but it's sure a good all-rounder, at least for me, even if i do not use them anymore.


----------



## Zune

I tried the KZ ATR's properly for the first time yesterday and for what they cost they are incredible. I can't get them to stay in my ears though. I bought them to use when i was doing things where they might get damaged and didn't want to risk nicer sets but i really don't like their shape. I'm getting used to the ZS10 Pros fit and the ATR's just feel wrong. They actually fit better if i swap the left to the right ear and vice versa .Maybe I need to try some different tips. Mind you i've never had much success with ear buds sealing properly and it wasn't until i tried an IEM i realised what i've been missing.


----------



## archdawg (Jun 8, 2019)

nxnje said:


> ZSN Pro is sure musical.
> Not technically exceptional like other IEMs on its price range (under 20 usd we can find some good choices which are technically better) but it's sure a good all-rounder, at least for me, even if i do not use them anymore.


Mind naming a few of those technically exceptional or better IEMs below $20?
On AE the ZSN Pro (or original ZSN) sell for 12-13€ these days (a steal IMO) and I'd be hard pressed to name something technically superior for that little money. Well, for 16€ you could get the **** but I personally don't like them as much for my standard diet of acoustic jazz at lower volumes. YMMV.


----------



## raccoon city

Assimilator702 said:


> If you like the ES4 try the ZSN, ZSN PRO or CCA CA4. They’re all better than the ES4. My biggest gripe about the ES4 is the housing tends to pop out of my ears. The ZSN and ZSN PRO fit like a glove. Sound wise the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a bit better than the CA4 and it’s nice to have both on hand due to the slightly different tuning in the upper midrange which depending on the recording one will do better than the other. When it comes to big bass the ZSN PRO have a bit more grunt than the ZSN. One nice thing about the ZSN is if you get the Silver/Purple,  it comes with the nice copper colored cable. I have a ZSN in Black but I plan on getting a Silver/Purple on AliExpress since it’s less than $14 and worth so much more than that. Listening to the new Arch/Matheo on the ZSN and it suits the very Protools style recording so well. ZSN and ZSN PRO are VERY GOOD with most Metal and amazing in electronic music with lots of bass and crazy electronic effects.
> 
> If the ES4 was a no brainer @ $19 back in September.....the ZSN and ZSN PRO are a steal even @ $23 each.


After checking out reviews of the ES4, ZSN, and ZSN PRO...
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-es4.23181/reviews
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/reviews
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-pro.23725/reviews
...it seems like the ES4 is best for me.


----------



## Superluc

raccoon city said:


> After checking out reviews of the ES4, ZSN, and ZSN PRO...
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-es4.23181/reviews
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-knowledge-zenith.23357/reviews
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsn-pro.23725/reviews
> ...it seems like the ES4 is best for me.


Between those three, the ES4 is the smoothest sounding one. My problem with them is the fit, while the ZSNs fit me like gloves.


----------



## nxnje

archdawg said:


> Mind naming a few of those technically exceptional or better IEMs below $20?
> On AE the ZSN Pro (or original ZSN) sell for 12-13€ these days (a steal IMO) and I'd be hard pressed to name something technically superior for that little money. Well, for 16€ you could get the **** but I personally don't like them as much for my standard diet of acoustic jazz at lower volumes. YMMV.



Then i didn't wanna mention the **** as it's banned so i can name the other one (at least) which is really exceptional. 
For me, the QT5 is something hard to beat at 20$, and imho technically there's just TRN V80 which can be something similarly accurate in terms of technical performance (except their very aggressive and annoying lower treble).


----------



## PhonoPhi

archdawg said:


> Mind naming a few of those technically exceptional or better IEMs below $20?
> On AE the ZSN Pro (or original ZSN) sell for 12-13€ these days (a steal IMO) and I'd be hard pressed to name something technically superior for that little money. Well, for 16€ you could get the **** but I personally don't like them as much for my standard diet of acoustic jazz at lower volumes. YMMV.


CCA CA4 (close relative of ZSN Pro but with smooth metal plates) - noticeable refinement of ZSN, which to me sound still quite competitive but with almost the same price as ZSN Pro is hard to recommend.


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## archdawg (Jun 8, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Then i didn't wanna mention the **** as it's banned so i can name the other one (at least) which is really exceptional.
> For me, the QT5 is something hard to beat at 20$, and imho technically there's just TRN V80 which can be something similarly accurate in terms of technical performance (except their very aggressive and annoying lower treble).


Agreed. When I got my QT5 I couldn't believe how good they sounded for those 20€ and I still prefer them over my ZSN and ZSN Pro as well. Anyway, after a week on the road with nothing but the QT5 I got back home, fired up my trusty grey ZS6 and blam ... no comparison - sub-bass, details throughout the spectrum, spaciousness, clarity, perceptual transparency (to my ears and brains), spatial accuracy, instrument separation even with heavily crowded tracks - a different class altogether for only 4-5 Euros more on AE.

Edit: I still haven't tried the V80, had them in my cart for ages, lol. Now for around 18€ on AE they're even harder to resist but heck, I already have a lot of cheaper IEMs that are just gathering dust and I rather waste my money and time on something more sophisticated.


----------



## moisespr123

I don't know if this gives us hope. My new KZ aptX HD cable is recognized in Windows as an HID Input Device. They have the data pins enabled. I don't know if this means that it could receive firmware updates, but I hope they do because the beeps and voice prompts are really loud...


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Assimilator702 said:


> My advice to try the ZSN is based off his plan on getting the ES4. The ZSN and ZSN PRO are better than the ES4 across the board. And if you think ZSN is bass light I don’t know how to respond to that. ZSN and ZSN PRO have never sounded lacking in the bass department. Some would argue it’s bass heavy.
> 
> I’ve played every genre on both ZSN and ZSN PRO and I don’t see how you could think they aren’t good for multiple genres. In your face or not......what’s the difference? If it fits the track what’s the issue? They handle Black Metal, Death, Thrash, Power Metal, Classic Rock, Vocal Jazz, Jazz Fusion, Hip Hop, Electronic music, standard pop. I found no serious issues with several styles of classical. maybe not the most technical but certainly musical.
> 
> Not to mention I’m recommending a $21 to $22 iem that’s a tremendous performer. Anyone that’s curious about either owes it to themselves to hear at least one of them.



Some people think Tin Audio T2 is a bass monster. Its all personal perpective. If you think ZSN has massive bass, then I wont argue that. To me its bass light. Its the least amount of bass I have heard from a KZ iem though and the speed and attack of it are quite fast. Not something that most people want for Reggae and Hip Hop, Trap, Dubstep, ect. Its also a bright and aggressive sounding iem.  On the other end of the spectrum ES4 has the most amount of bass impact and slam of all KZ iems I have tried. They are warm and smooth. All things that most people that listen to Reggae and other bass heavy genres of music like. 

No big deal. Listen to whatever you want on whatever you find enjoyable. That's the goal of this thing. However with that said there are iems that do somethings better then other. I wouldn't rec a T2 to somebody that loves Future, and I wouldn't rec An ES4 to somebody that's into Technical Death Metal.


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## BadReligionPunk (Jun 8, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> First off, thanks to everyone who responded to my question. @Assimilator702...Yeah, I already have the ZS10 PRO which I think are already an upgrade in all areas from the ZSN or ZSN PRO. I can EQ my ZS10 PRO, and be very happy with them for Reggae. I'm just looking for a set that I will use just for Reggae (without the need for EQ) and probably nothing else. I've also got a balanced 2.5 TRN cable that I bought a couple of months ago that will fit into a recessed 2 pin socket, that I'd like to make use of. So, I don't really think that ZSN/ZSN PRO is what I want. @BadReligionPunk...thanks for the rec! Got the the ES4 in my Ali cart for less than $16 Canadian, combined with a nice little case bundle. I'll probably get them this week. Only thing is...are they really big housings, and how's the stem length? I can't take big housings (that's why I like the smaller one on ZS10 PRO  and KanasPro). No use in buying something that is too big, falls out, or is uncomfortable for my ears. Any thoughts?



I can wear them 8+ hours with no issues. They are SLIGHTLY thicker then ZSN and also very light. I took some pics to compare. they are on the phone so lemme edit and upload them in a sec.


----------



## Superluc

The question on the ES4's fit is rather the nozzle than the housing. It's almost at 90° degrees, it's not angled like the ZSN.

Examples:











Everyone's anatomy is different, but that particular make the ES4 uncomfortable to my ears and prone to be pushed out.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I find the ZSN the most comfy KZ iem, but yea nozzle placement makes a difference. The C10 nozzle was different and I had to ultimately go to a slightly smaller tip to get a good fit. Luckily ES4 fits me well with M Spiral Dots. 

Fittement is the main reason that over ear IEMs will never be mainstream. I have like 15 IEMs that I have taken to work to give away for free to co-workers and everybody looks at me like...


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 8, 2019)

I've been reflecting lately on the curious case of the BA10. Upon first hearing it (and reviewing it) I was somewhat undecided about whether or not lightning had actually struck twice for KZ (the ZS6 being the first lightning strike). After evaluating the BA10 for several months I can confidently say that the BA10 holds up incredibly well. Yep, I can wholeheartedly say that "yes", indeed lightning has effectively struck twice for KZ Acoustics with the BA10, albeit the second time around it was more of what I'll refer to as a quiet storm. I'd like to see KZ revisit the BA10 tuning but this time in a more ergonomic housing since the BA10's unorthodox approach to housing was so polarizing. 



 

That said, I have no complaints or concerns regarding fit or comfort with my BA10. 

Looking at how the 10Pro and C16 have been so well-received, and rightfully so, I'd like to see KZ simply double the driver count on a BA10 replacement to further increase definition, separation and perhaps layering. Truthfully, I don't know if they can pull it off; I'm almost certain that the aluminum housing, lack of tuning tubes and unused space (40%+/-) inside said housing contribute to the homogenous and cohesive sound that pours through the nozzles. The BA10 is a very good IEM but in all candor, I doubt KZ can pull off duplicating the sound.......but I can hope. 

Bottom line:
If KZ can duplicate the BA10's sound signature with the minor improvements mentioned above AND keep their legendary price to performance ratio (perhaps $90+/-) then it'll be a landmark IEM. 


.......but it MUST BE ALUMINUM (and SHOULD have the vented faceplates) and it MUST BE ERGONOMIC or it simply won't work for interested parties.



 



The BA10 sound signature....

It's lover'ly


----------



## eclein

I’m with ya Doc 100 %!


----------



## katatonicone1

DocHoliday said:


> That said, I have no complaints or concerns regarding fit or comfort with my BA10.


I've been pretending for more than 6 months that I'm ok with the comfort of BA10  Then I bought ZS7 and I tossed BA10 away


----------



## PhonoPhi

DocHoliday said:


> I've been reflecting lately on the curious case of the BA10. Upon first hearing it (and reviewing it) I was somewhat undecided about whether or not lightning had actually struck twice for KZ (the ZS6 being the first lightning strike). After evaluating the BA10 for several months I can confidently say that the BA10 holds up incredibly well. Yep, I can wholeheartedly say that "yes", indeed lightning has effectively struck twice for KZ Acoustics with the BA10, albeit the second time around it was more of what I'll refer to as a quiet storm. I'd like to see KZ revisit the BA10 tuning but this time in a more ergonomic housing since the BA10's unorthodox approach to housing was so polarizing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought, and still hope, that CCA A10 can do some of it (ordered mine more than two weeks ago...)


----------



## archdawg

My ZS7 after the first 4 days ...
Everything seems MUCH more relaxed, balanced and accurate now ... well almost. There's one slightly sharp treble peak left and so I ran a 2-channel 7-9kHz sine sweep through those guys and there it was, pretty narrow and centered at ~7.9 kHz. I changed tips, went through the sweep again with the same result. Something worse, this peak is about 6dB stronger on the right side, damnit. So far I haven't made up my mind if I'm going to replace those 2 30095 BA with some better paired Knowles armatures I have lying around here since that means quite a bit of work - I guess I'll wait at least until my 10Pro arrive.
Bottom line: before I finally ordered the 7s some weeks ago I was afraid that their treble would be rolled or rather cut off too radically but gladly that's not the case, at least not on my copies. To me they don't really seem less airy than any of my 6s but render especially all sorts of cymbals distinctively more natural and less sharp and splashy than their predecessors.
After those first 4 days I'm really digging these great IEMs, especially their speed, dry warmth and beautiful spatial representation with that extra depth - 31€ VERY well spent.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> I find the ZSN the most comfy KZ iem, but yea nozzle placement makes a difference. The C10 nozzle was different and I had to ultimately go to a slightly smaller tip to get a good fit. Luckily ES4 fits me well with M Spiral Dots.
> 
> Fittement is the main reason that over ear IEMs will never be mainstream. I have like 15 IEMs that I have taken to work to give away for free to co-workers and everybody looks at me like...


LMAF! Great pic and totally get the reaction. Is she your daughter? That face is precious!


----------



## Lunar Eclipse

I've been holding off on the BA10 because I'm worried the fit will be uncomfortable. I have medium large ears but not sure that even matters. I do have the ZS6(and ZS3) with 1 ba blocked and foam tips. I just love, LOVE the comfort and sound. Perhaps one day the BA10 as a counter to the ZS6 will be mine. Because of the retro aluminum look and your enthusiastic review, that day may be soon.. Thank you Doc


DocHoliday said:


> I've been reflecting lately on the curious case of the BA10. Upon first hearing it (and reviewing it) I was somewhat undecided about whether or not lightning had actually struck twice for KZ (the ZS6 being the first lightning strike). After evaluating the BA10 for several months I can confidently say that the BA10 holds up incredibly well. Yep, I can wholeheartedly say that "yes", indeed lightning has effectively struck twice for KZ Acoustics with the BA10, albeit the second time around it was more of what I'll refer to as a quiet storm. I'd like to see KZ revisit the BA10 tuning but this time in a more ergonomic housing since the BA10's unorthodox approach to housing was so polarizing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## courierdriver

archdawg said:


> My ZS7 after the first 4 days ...
> Everything seems MUCH more relaxed, balanced and accurate now ... well almost. There's one slightly sharp treble peak left and so I ran a 2-channel 7-9kHz sine sweep through those guys and there it was, pretty narrow and centered at ~7.9 kHz. I changed tips, went through the sweep again with the same result. Something worse, this peak is about 6dB stronger on the right side, damnit. So far I haven't made up my mind if I'm going to replace those 2 30095 BA with some better paired Knowles armatures I have lying around here since that means quite a bit of work - I guess I'll wait at least until my 10Pro arrive.
> Bottom line: before I finally ordered the 7s some weeks ago I was afraid that their treble would be rolled or rather cut off too radically but gladly that's not the case, at least not on my copies. To me they don't really seem less airy than any of my 6s but render especially all sorts of cymbals distinctively more natural and less sharp and splashy than their predecessors.
> After those first 4 days I'm really digging these great IEMs, especially their speed, dry warmth and beautiful spatial representation with that extra depth - 31€ VERY well spent.


Damn! After so much going back and forth in my head, and resisting buying the ZS7, posts like this make me constantly reconsider. My biggest worry is about the fit. My ZS10 PRO  is very comfortable,  as is my Moondrop KPE. I dont want to take a chance on something that doesn't fit my ears well. But from all that I have read about the ZS7, these are a really good set. I think I'm gonna try to resist them, cause I want my new DAP instead. But after that, I can definitely see these as being a part of my iem collection.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

courierdriver said:


> LMAF! Great pic and totally get the reaction. Is she your daughter? That face is precious!



Haha no. Just one of many super famous memes running around. But it seriously explains how most people look at you when you bring up over ears. Everybody, at least where I work, want earbuds or wire down, and always all of them need controls.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> Haha no. Just one of many super famous memes running around. But it seriously explains how most people look at you when you bring up over ears. Everybody, at least where I work, want earbuds or wire down, and always all of them need controls.


Well, thanks for that pic. That's priceless! Personally, I cant do earbuds or straight down hanging earphones. They get pulled out too fast from MY ears anyway. I've tried them before, but they kept getting snagged in the zipper of my jacket or the collar of my shirt, whenever I turned my head. Over ear iems work much better for me. I don't much care for the built in control pods in a lot of cables either. I think it's just another degradation to the overall sound that is fine for convenience, but not the best potential for sound quality. That's just my opinion, but I know alot of people who feel they need to be constantly connected to their phones and such, so for them, I guess I get it. Me, I want the purest and best sound possible at the price. And when I'm listening to music and relaxing, I don't care who is trying to reach me. They can leave me an email or voice message, and I'll get back to them when it's convenient for me.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DocHoliday said:


> The BA10 sound signature....
> 
> It's lover'ly


Since most of us havent heard it, is there another iem that is similar? If not, maybe say if so and so iem had a baby it'd be the BA10, etc.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 9, 2019)

archdawg said:


> My ZS7 after the first 4 days ...
> Everything seems MUCH more relaxed, balanced and accurate now ... well almost. There's one slightly sharp treble peak left and so I ran a 2-channel 7-9kHz sine sweep through those guys and there it was, pretty narrow and centered at ~7.9 kHz. I changed tips, went through the sweep again with the same result. Something worse, this peak is about 6dB stronger on the right side, damnit.


I was comparing the Moondrop Crescent to the ZS7 and also noticed a peak. I didnt really notice it without comparing. I am still unsure if I like the Crescent better but it sounds more natural (better tuned?) with no weird peaks and its smooth as butter but I still love the musicality of the ZS7.


----------



## gourab1995

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I was comparing the Moondrop Crescent to the ZS7 and also noticed a peak. I didnt really notice it without comparing. I am still unsure if I like the Crescent better but it sounds more natural (better tuned?) with no weird peaks and its smooth as butter but I still love the musicality of the ZS7.



Moondrops may be better tuned. They follow the Harman frequency curve for their iems. I wish kz would take up on that.


----------



## Makahl (Jun 9, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> Moondrops may be better tuned. They follow the Harman frequency curve for their iems.* I wish kz would take up on that*.



Well, isn't the KZ ZS10 Pro going towards the Harman target as well? Give a look at Moondrop KP (which follows Harman FR target) x ZS10 Pro:



>



The KP follows the target at mid-range better but... it's the advantage in using 1 DD instead of BAs (which personally I prefer the DD coherence/timbre). With all this trend of good single DD drivers recently like Moondrop (Crescent, KP, KXXS),Tanchjim (Cora, Oxygen), TFZ (No.3), Sony MH,  I really hope to see a new KZ model using only 1 DD well tuned in the future following this path.


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Since most of us havent heard it, is there another iem that is similar? If not, maybe say if so and so iem had a baby it'd be the BA10, etc.


BA10 has the same drivers as AS10, so they are close: BA10 being more resonant with more extended highs. In some sense, BA10 can be viewed a step toward CCA C16. Yet, not only the size of BA10, but its sharp angles is quite something.


----------



## gourab1995

Makahl said:


> Well, isn't the KZ ZS10 Pro going towards the Harman target as well? Give a look at Moondrop KP (which follows Harman FR target) x ZS10 Pro:
> 
> 
> 
> The KP follows the target at mid-range better but... it's the advantage in using 1 DD instead of BAs (which personally I prefer the DD coherence/timbre). With all this trend of good single DD drivers recently like Moondrop (Crescent, KP, KXXS),Tanchjim (Cora, Oxygen), TFZ (No.3) I really hope to see a new KZ model using only 1 DD well tuned in the future following this path.



Wow didn't know that about the ZS10 pro. Guess now they need to work on that treble and tuning.


----------



## Zerohour88

Makahl said:


> The KP follows the target at mid-range better but... it's the advantage in using 1 DD instead of BAs (which personally I prefer the DD coherence/timbre). With all this trend of good single DD drivers recently like Moondrop (Crescent, KP, KXXS),Tanchjim (Cora, Oxygen), TFZ (No.3), Sony MH,  I really hope to see a new KZ model using only 1 DD well tuned in the future following this path.



sigh, the usual "KZ better tune 1 DD than use more drivers" that gets parroted once in a while here.

You have a lot more leeway in tuning several BAs together (via tubing, crossovers, zobel circuits) compared to using 1 DD. You're stuck with the sonic qualities of that 1 DD while trying to get it to follow the sound sig you want. And tuning a single DD is not easy, that's why high quality DD iems like the Dita Truth and Sony EX1K costs a lot more than your average KZ.

Its not as easy as "why don't KZ just tune it?" as people make it out to be.


----------



## Makahl (Jun 9, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> sigh, the usual "KZ better tune 1 DD than use more drivers" that gets parroted once in a while here.
> 
> *You have a lot more leeway in tuning several BAs together (via tubing, crossovers, zobel circuits) compared to using 1 DD.* You're stuck with the sonic qualities of that 1 DD while trying to get it to follow the sound sig you want. And tuning a single DD is not easy, that's why high quality DD iems like the Dita Truth and Sony EX1K costs a lot more than your average KZ.
> 
> Its not as easy as "why don't KZ just tune it?" as people make it out to be.



Indeed, the AS16 is a good example of good tuning.  

Tbh, I can't see how my post can relate to your comment since it was just a small "wish" coming from a personal perspective after talking about the harman target. But ok...


----------



## Zerohour88

Makahl said:


> Indeed, the AS16 is a good example of good tuning.
> 
> Tbh, I can't see how my post can relate to your comment since it was just a small "wish" coming from a personal perspective. But ok...



I did not say that tuning via multiple BAs will definitely get good results, I said more leeway, not the same thing. As in, you get more options and more variables to play with.

Its simply because comments like yours are always seen whenever tuning is mentioned. I just thought it'd be simpler for everyone if people are made to understand the intricacies of tuning other than "just tune it".

for example, most TOTL IEMs are multi-BAs, like the CA Andromeda, 64Audio U12T, Ultimate Ears Reference. There's a reason why its tricky to incorporate DDs. CA tried it with the Solaris and instead of "Andromeda with DD bass", it turned into something a bit less than stellar.


----------



## ShakyJake

Makahl said:


> Well, isn't the KZ ZS10 Pro going towards the Harman target as well? Give a look at Moondrop KP (which follows Harman FR target) x ZS10 Pro:
> 
> 
> 
> The KP follows the target at mid-range better but... it's the advantage in using 1 DD instead of BAs (which personally I prefer the DD coherence/timbre). With all this trend of good single DD drivers recently like Moondrop (Crescent, KP, KXXS),Tanchjim (Cora, Oxygen), TFZ (No.3), Sony MH,  I really hope to see a new KZ model using only 1 DD well tuned in the future following this path.


Thanks for making me aware of Crinacle's graph compare tool. It is awesome. I used the TOTL Sony IER-Z1R as the baseline, but you can, of course, use any IEM as reference. Also, for grins try the complimentary airline iems that he has in there. Thanks @crinacle!


----------



## crinacle

Makahl said:


> Well, isn't the KZ ZS10 Pro going towards the Harman target as well? Give a look at Moondrop KP (which follows Harman FR target) x ZS10 Pro:
> 
> 
> 
> The KP follows the target at mid-range better but... it's the advantage in using 1 DD instead of BAs (which personally I prefer the DD coherence/timbre). With all this trend of good single DD drivers recently like Moondrop (Crescent, KP, KXXS),Tanchjim (Cora, Oxygen), TFZ (No.3), Sony MH,  I really hope to see a new KZ model using only 1 DD well tuned in the future following this path.





ShakyJake said:


> Thanks for making me aware of Crinacle's graph compare tool. It is awesome. I used the TOTL Sony IER-Z1R as the baseline, but you can, of course, use any IEM as reference. Also, for grins try the complimentary airline iems that he has in there. Thanks @crinacle!



Do note that the Harman Target is also available on the comparison tool. You don't have to use the Kanas Pro.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 9, 2019)

Anyone compare the soundmagic E11 to kz? Their new tuning looks very flat. Also how do iems like vsonic gr07 stand off to the Kanas pros?


----------



## Slater

gourab1995 said:


> Anyone compare the soundmagic E11 to kz?



Wow that’s a name I haven’t heard in a while. I didn’t even think they were even still around!


----------



## nraymond

Makahl said:


> The KP follows the target at mid-range better but... it's the advantage in using 1 DD instead of BAs (which personally I prefer the DD coherence/timbre). With all this trend of good single DD drivers recently like Moondrop (Crescent, KP, KXXS),Tanchjim (Cora, Oxygen), TFZ (No.3), Sony MH,  I really hope to see a new KZ model using only 1 DD well tuned in the future following this path.



I've been comparing the ZS10 Pro, Kanas Pro, and the TFZ King Updated Version. For eartips I've been using the JVC Spiral Dots on the ZS10 Pro, the Acoustone AET07a ("Sound focussing wide-range clarity") on the Kanas Pro, and the Auvio (Radio Shack) earbud tips on the TFZ King Updated Version. My reasons for those tip choices (after about a half dozen comparative personal tests) were to enhance the sub-bass on the ZS10 Pro, maintain the response on the Kanas Pro while increasing personal comfort, and slightly temper the sub-bass on the TFZ King Updated Version (respectively). The thing that is so far standing out to me is that I think the Kanas Pro is the least fatiguing to listen to for extended listening sessions (I think on par with the Maxell MXH-RF550), with the TFZ King Updated Version second, and the ZS10 Pro third. The TFZ King Updated Version has a remarkable amount of clean and impactful sub-bass, which depending on the eartips I think can be too much (fatiguing for certain genres). I need to do more extended tests to see if the Auvio eartips are the best match for them, but I think in some ways they can give the Kanas Pro a run for their money (and currently the TFZ King Updated Version are just $69 from PenonAudio, so about half the price of the KP. I think the single DD in both those models may also be contributing to the lack of extended listening fatigue. For the money though, the ZS10 Pro are certainly good.


----------



## gourab1995

Slater said:


> Wow that’s a name I haven’t heard in a while. I didn’t even think they were even still around!



I had the e10c they were so good to me at the time. From there went to kz legends like ate, ed9. Realized the difference in sound that a wide bore can make through this iem. Doesn't compare to iems now.

This time e11 have a very flat tuning compared to E10 v shape. It's driving me nuts. I want to know more about this iem and how it compares to modern day stuff. Surprisingly saw it there in crinacles graph compare tool.


----------



## Slater (Jun 9, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> I had the e10c they were so good to me at the time. From there went to kz legends like ate, ed9. Realized the difference in sound that a wide bore can make through this iem. Doesn't compare to iems now.
> 
> This time e11 have a very flat tuning compared to E10 v shape. It's driving me nuts. I want to know more about this iem and how it compares to modern day stuff. Surprisingly saw it there in crinacles graph compare tool.



Agreed. I had E10C as well. They died a long time ago though (crappy cable). I wish I had kept them though; I’m sure I could have recabled them no problem.

I also still have the HP150 and HP200 full size cans, which are awesome except for the crappy weak hinges.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I'm really loving the friendliness of the ZS6 v2. Any other best friends out there of him?


----------



## Tweeters

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm really loving the friendliness of the ZS6 v2. Any other best friends out there of him?



Does anyone know for sure if there's actually a 'v2' of the ZS6?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 10, 2019)

Bingo, bango, bongo!


----------



## Slater (Jun 9, 2019)

Tweeters said:


> Does anyone know for sure if there's actually a 'v2' of the ZS6?



Yes, there appears to be now.

I don’t know exactly when it happened, but I suspect it was some point in the last year.

I can say it was NOT when they added the grey color though, nor was it when they 1st added a nozzle lip.

The v2 tuning was some point long after that. Because I have a v1 grey pair with a nozzle lip (from when the grey color and nozzle lips 1st appeared) and its FR measures 100% identical to all my old v1 ones (2 black, 1 red, 1 green).

But a black pair I recently bought sounds totally different than all my other ZS6, which I am not happy about at all. So something was definitely retuned, as the treble sounds different.


----------



## courierdriver (Jun 9, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> I did not say that tuning via multiple BAs will definitely get good results, I said more leeway, not the same thing. As in, you get more options and more variables to play with.
> 
> Its simply because comments like yours are always seen whenever tuning is mentioned. I just thought it'd be simpler for everyone if people are made to understand the intricacies of tuning other than "just tune it".
> 
> for example, most TOTL IEMs are multi-BAs, like the CA Andromeda, 64Audio U12T, Ultimate Ears Reference. There's a reason why its tricky to incorporate DDs. CA tried it with the Solaris and instead of "Andromeda with DD bass", it turned into something a bit less than stellar.


Campfires Atlas is a DD, with a DLC coating, just like Kanas Pro. KPE is several hundred dollars less than the Atlas. I have to say that my personal preference is for a full range DD, but the KZ ZS10 PRO  is a really great set, that I have been spending more and more time with. I'm exploring other inexpensive DD based drivers iems, like TFZ. I'd be curious to see what KZ could do if they ever decided to put out a single DD driver set, with a DLC or Beryllium coated DD, that sounds as good as the ZS10 PRO, but with just a bit more bass speed and warmth in the mids, but with a big soundstage, like the KPE. And then sell them for less than $100. I'd buy a set like that for sure! Meanwhile, I'm gonna keep looking for other brands that offer single DD based sets. I know that the typical trend with DD is a slower, but warmer sound. But I know (based on my experience with the KPE) that so much more is possible. KZ...are you listening? Oh, and they would need to have that comfy shape of the ZS10 PRO. Bigger shells and short nozzles don't work for me.


----------



## Zerohour88

courierdriver said:


> Campfires Atlas is a DD, with a DLC coating, just like Kanas Pro. KPE is several hundred dollars less than the Atlas. I have to say that my personal preference is for a full range DD, but the KZ ZS10 PRO  is a really great set, that I have been spending more and more time with. I'm exploring other inexpensive DD based drivers iems, like TFZ. I'd be curious to see what KZ could do if they ever decided to put out a single DD driver set, with a DLC or Beryllium coated DD, that sounds as good as the ZS10 PRO, but with just a bit more bass speed and warmth in the mids, but with a big soundstage, like the KPE. And then sell them for less than $100. I'd buy a set like that for sure! Meanwhile, I'm gonna keep looking for other brands that offer single DD based sets. I know that the typical trend with DD is a slower, but warmer sound. But I know (based on my experience with the KPE) that so much more is possible. KZ...are you listening? Oh, and they would need to have that comfy shape of the ZS10 PRO. Bigger shells and short nozzles don't work for me.



Research and development for DD is rocky at best, even companies like Sony takes years to develop a good DD. We already have brands like Moondrop and TFZ for DD stuff, I'd rather KZ focus on tuning multi-BAs. They're getting to a point where the tuning is acceptable and since the timbre/sonic qualities are mostly dependent on BA quality, its a slow step to either a)use higher quality BA from Knowles and Sonion thus increasing the price or b)wait until Bellsing catches up in quality to the big boys. Option a) is made pointless by the various other brands already making the same products. Option b) is the main reason I'm still following KZ even after moving to higher end stuff. Word around the DIY scene is that while Bellsing have their limitations, their BAs are slowly improving. Quite hopeful for that. There's even a 6BA package by Bellsing that is supposedly TOTL quality (they are also usd$80 a pair, quite pricey). Maybe we'll see a chi-fi company get around to using that.


----------



## courierdriver (Jun 9, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> Research and development for DD is rocky at best, even companies like Sony takes years to develop a good DD. We already have brands like Moondrop and TFZ for DD stuff, I'd rather KZ focus on tuning multi-BAs. They're getting to a point where the tuning is acceptable and since the timbre/sonic qualities are mostly dependent on BA quality, its a slow step to either a)use higher quality BA from Knowles and Sonion thus increasing the price or b)wait until Bellsing catches up in quality to the big boys. Option a) is made pointless by the various other brands already making the same products. Option b) is the main reason I'm still following KZ even after moving to higher end stuff. Word around the DIY scene is that while Bellsing have their limitations, their BAs are slowly improving. Quite hopeful for that. There's even a 6BA package by Bellsing that is supposedly TOTL quality (they are also usd$80 a pair, quite pricey). Maybe we'll see a chi-fi company get around to using that.


Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you said. I think the biggest shortcoming with too many BA sets, is getting the right BA drivers to do the job right. There's so many factors involved...getting the drivers to seamlessly integrate with each other, crossovers, shell materials, shell size, etc. It goes on and on. A DD driver is basically a concentric single driver that covers all frequencies. Yes, its harder to implement correctly, but the results when well done well pay huge dividends. Good all BA iems use sophisticated crossovers and tubing to get the sound right...and that costs big money. So does a good DD set. I think there's alot left in DD driver design to satisfy many audiophiles, and the price of single DD sets seem to be getting lower. Multi driver BA sets that are well executed can run into the many hundreds or thousands of $'s. I'd like to see a day too, when BA's will perform as well as a good DD. Right now though, the best BA sets cost alot, and they still have issues with bass impact. So far, only DD's or hybrids can deliver that. There is something about how a DD makes music sound more warm and organic that I like. Most all BA sets I've heard have a lack of coherency and lack impactful bass. Those that do, cost beyond my means. But, that's just my opinion. Clearly, there are many who enjoy the BA sound as much as I enjoy the DD sound sig. One thing is certain: music lovers are in a great place right now with all the choices available to them.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 9, 2019)

Slater said:


> Yes, there appears to be now.
> 
> I don’t know exactly when it happened, but I suspect it was some point in the last year.
> 
> ...




.......and with this proclamation the game is afoot to secure a pair of ZS6(v1). 


I suppose the only way to be certain that one has received the (v1) is to receive a set WITHOUT the nozzle lip. That said, could you describe any losses and/or gains in presentation that you've experienced between the ZS6v1 & v2?


----------



## durwood

Slater said:


> Yes, there appears to be now.
> 
> I don’t know exactly when it happened, but I suspect it was some point in the last year.
> 
> ...



Can you share a graph or a subjective impression of what changed? Also any particular seller that you bought a ZS6v2 from if the seller can be mentioned? I might put it on my radar for a rainy day.


----------



## cherylyn

durwood said:


> Can you share a graph or a subjective impression of what changed? Also any particular seller that you bought a ZS6v2 from if the seller can be mentioned? I might put it on my radar for a rainy day.


Yes please!


----------



## Slater (Jun 10, 2019)

durwood said:


> Can you share a graph or a subjective impression of what changed? Also any particular seller that you bought a ZS6v2 from if the seller can be mentioned? I might put it on my radar for a rainy day.



I normally don’t like publicly sharing graphs, because the sub bass in my measurement rig has an exaggerated roll off (in other words, the sub bass portion of my graphs cannot be trusted).

However, the treble is the only thing that appears to be different as far as I can audibly detect. So I’ll consider posting graphs...

As far as *who* I’ve bought ZS6 from, I’ve bought of them from many different sellers. Gearbest, the Official KZ Store (or maybe it was the KZ Global Store), some rinky dink Aliexpress seller that was selling off their remaining stock stupid cheap a while ago, and another HeadFi member.

As far as *when* I’ve bought them from, at different times over the last 3 years, as far back as the original release date to as currently as 1 month ago.

I have 7 different pairs, 3 black, 1 red, 2 green, 1 grey. And only the 1 grey and 1 black have nozzle lips. And only the 1 black (that has the nozzle lip) sounds noticeably different than all the others (but only with regards to treble). KZ definitely toned down the treble.

Anyways, from what I can tell, @DocHoliday is right in that you’d want to find a version with NO LIP if you want a guarantee that you’re getting the v1. If you get one with a lip, there’s no guarantee if it’s the old OR new one.

Also, be aware that I only have 1 that has different treble. It’s possible that 1 is defective in some way. But I am not the 1st person to comment that the ZS6 treble has changed. I have seen that comment pop up a few times now. So I highly doubt it’s all QC errors. We know KZ has revised the 30095 - they’ve proudly advertised it with other recent IEMs. And the ZS6 has TWO of them right in the nozzle. So it all makes sense.

_Now, does that mean everyone should run out and get a v1? Well, I remember a whole lot of people complaining about the treble (I didn’t mind it though). So the fact that they toned down the treble in a v2 might mean people would want to GET a v2 ZS6. In other words, all those people that complained about the original ZS6 - this v2 could be the ZS6 you wished KZ had made._


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

B9Scrambler said:


> If you count adding a teeny nozzle lip enough to warrant the "V2" ZS6 moniker, then yes.


I heard the v2 took out the piercing treble?


----------



## Slater

Everyone might be interested in this PSA:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-108#post-15000273

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-108#post-15000367

I’m posting this here, because:

1. The 2-pin version of the cable fits KZs. In fact, using it with a KZ is what I originally bought it for (as I don’t even own a single TRN IEM)

and

2. I have a bad feeling this affects other upgrade cables we’ve all been buying (from other manufacturers). If one is doing it, I’m sure others are too.

I may have to start cutting apart other upgrade cables I have to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes...


----------



## Slater (Jun 10, 2019)

More shenanigans:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-109#post-15000552

A LOT of us are using these upgrade cables on our KZs. Many of us own a NUMBER of these cables, and often buy an upgrade cable every single time we buy a new IEM! It’s become second nature now.

Folks, these are not good developments.

I am going to expand my testing to include some KZ upgrade cables.

Unfortunately, I don’t own any of the KZ 8-core copper/silver bi-color cables, only the flat braided ones. So I’ll have to order some of the KZ bi-color cables to dissect and test. I will be testing a KZ flat-braided cable though.

We need to figure out what upgrade cables we can trust, and which ones we can’t trust. This is total BS.


----------



## vegetaleb

DynamicEars said:


> ZSN / ZS10 pro shells are actually small, they indeed looked bigger in picture, but they are small, and sounds multiple time better than AKG bonus iem from samsung for me. You may try with ZSN pro first, they're good and cheap



But they are over the ear no?
I have ZS3 and ZSR for sports but I am searching for casual non over the ear models


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 10, 2019)

How easy is it to damage a BA or the innards of a ZS6? I had a pair hanging around my neck today and at one point when I was sitting down they slid off my shoulders and fell on the ground.

They now sound: 1) bright 2) echoey like in a small mirrored room and off sounding. What else should I look for?

I'm disappointed on my stupid mistake.


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> But they are over the ear no?
> I have ZS3 and ZSR for sports but I am searching for casual non over the ear models



Yes, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, C10, etc are all over-ear.

What kind of sound signature are you looking for? What’s your budget?

Lots of good choices available for wearing ‘down’.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 10, 2019)

Slater said:


> More shenanigans:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-109#post-15000552
> 
> ...


I never trusted TRN cables as they sounded bad. I always laughed inside when people said they were using them.

I also own the TRN v20 and am not that impressed with the iem. In my personal opinion, I won't be supporting TRN, a low quality brand.


----------



## Zerohour88

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you said. I think the biggest shortcoming with too many BA sets, is getting the right BA drivers to do the job right. There's so many factors involved...getting the drivers to seamlessly integrate with each other, crossovers, shell materials, shell size, etc. It goes on and on. A DD driver is basically a concentric single driver that covers all frequencies. Yes, its harder to implement correctly, but the results when well done well pay huge dividends. Good all BA iems use sophisticated crossovers and tubing to get the sound right...and that costs big money. So does a good DD set. I think there's alot left in DD driver design to satisfy many audiophiles, and the price of single DD sets seem to be getting lower. Multi driver BA sets that are well executed can run into the many hundreds or thousands of $'s.



cost-wise, its not that expensive to actually make a multi-BA IEM with crossovers. Someone estimated that it costs around usd$300 (for the BAs, crossovers and then shell manufacturing) or so to make a CA Andromeda that sells for usd$1000, bearing in mind that cost is calculated using consumer pricing (bulk buyers will have much lower prices). The high cost is in the research and development, so after they're done, they need to recoup that cost somewhere. 

KZ releasing so many models and then getting feedback on them is basically a shortcut to R&D while also being a big bait to users who itches to buy anything new, going so far to release a new sister brand so they can try out different kind of tuning. One tuning looks like a failure? well, we'll just release another model that kinda fixes what people think was wrong with it. I do wish they were more proactive in sending out early review units instead of hoping on vendors like Linsoul though (which is doing a stellar job of reaching out to both reviewers and consumers).



Slater said:


> More shenanigans:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-109#post-15000552
> 
> ...



uh, I hope NiceHCK doesn't do the same thing? I've measured some cables from them and all seems to be quite low-resistance (below 0.3ohm, I think, which is good enough for me).

I think Kinboofi also had similar issues? I remember someone sharing a pic of the jack and wires not being soldered, can't remember which maker it was.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> I remember someone sharing a pic of the jack and wires not being soldered, can't remember which maker it was.



That was me. It was a defective Kinboofi cable (an isolated QC case).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...uck-cable-thread.891911/page-60#post-14837027

NONE of the wires were connected at all! I did get a refund on that particular cable though. Whoever was in charge of soldering the wires fell asleep that day lol.


----------



## archdawg (Jun 10, 2019)

Slater said:


> Also, be aware that I only have 1 that has different treble. It’s possible that 1 is defective in some way. But I am not the 1st person to comment that the ZS6 treble has changed. I have seen that comment pop up a few times now. So I highly doubt it’s all QC errors. We know KZ has revised the 30095 - they’ve proudly advertised it with other recent IEMs. And the ZS6 has TWO of them right in the nozzle. So it all makes sense.
> 
> _Now, does that mean everyone should run out and get a v1? Well, I remember a whole lot of people complaining about the treble (I didn’t mind it though). So the fact that they toned down the treble in a v2 might mean people would want to GET a v2 ZS6. In other words, all those people that complained about the original ZS6 - this v2 could be the ZS6 you wished KZ had made._



Like I posted before, the treble on my newer red and green ZS6 sounds distinctively different than that from my older grey pair - less peaky and piercing but here's another clue: the treble on the newer versions of the ZS6 and my new 7 sounds more accurate and natural to my ears than that of my older 6 and for example the original ZSN; something very obvious with higher pitched natural instruments, e.g. brass, violins and especially cymbals.
To me this refinement was the first real hint towards upgraded or customized 30095s on my newer ZS6.
Now, have KZ gone a step further and modded the crossovers on the newer ZS6 and 7 and maybe other models as well? Could be since my new ZS7 don't sound nearly as dark and rolled-off as some older reviews (maybe based on an older version?) made me believe and what kept me from pulling the trigger on the 7s for quite a while.
With that being said, I'd really love to know the values of the components on the different passive xovers but still can't take any measurements myself since my trusty instruments (Keithley & Co.) are still in storage some 4000km away.


----------



## archdawg (Jun 10, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How easy is it to damage a BA or the innards of a ZS6? I had a pair hanging around my neck today and at one point when I was sitting down they slid off my shoulders and fell on the ground.
> 
> They now sound: 1) bright 2) echoey like in a small mirrored room and off sounding. What else should I look for?
> 
> I'm disappointed on my stupid mistake.


You might have killed one or more of those BAs. Just relax, at least you didn't drop some Andromedas, lol. If you have some bucks left somewhere why not order a new pair or for a couple $ more the 10Pro if you don't have them already.
PS: after the mishap with my Shures I imagine and treat my BA based IEMs like raw eggs on wires - no further accidents so far.

BTW, there's another sale on AE next week, but I don't think they'll drop those prices any further.


----------



## seowtf

Sharing my thought on KZ ZS10 Pro

The ZS10 Pro has a translucent plastic body with aluminum nozzle with stainless steel face place. Built quality and finish is excellent and size is compact and fit comfortable for long listening .
The dynamic driver in low frequency is tight and agile.  Bass is elevated and extended is deep enough which not sound bloated or boomy and definitely not bleed into mid.  Good punch enough for fun-joy music listener but shy off for bass head.

The mid tuned by balanced armatures give good details and warm signature. You can hear voice texture and instruments separation as well.

Trebles is elevated as well give airy and precise details without harshness. No fatigue on hours play.

Soundstage and imaging is deep spacious.  Easily drive by modest source. Even direct drive from phone source Galaxy S8 given ample juice.

Overall this is good aesthetical, good sound retrieval  and balance being touch of  bright and dark signature .

This is the third pair of KZ given me much surprised after quite a while (since kz6 and AS10) . Which trigger me to grab a second pair as well.  Some of the more expensive iem which requires a powerful source feed or may need to tune up bass mode. ZS10 pro can be plug n play direct from phone source still give ample of juice on low, high and mid. It bang for bucks on value as well. 

You can grab it from Aliexpress  or Amazon. 

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cXJUFTM8

https://www.amazon.com/Headphones-*...=1559799390&s=gateway&sprefix=Kz+zs10+&sr=8-4


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Wow that’s a name I haven’t heard in a while. I didn’t even think they were even still around!


Wow indeed. Soundmagic were my first ‘serious’ -ish IEMs and the first time a seller told me ‘check what they say on head-fi about those’ .... so, yes, they were my introduction to this place . Liked ‘em so much at that Time that i bought a second pair ....

Back to KZ.   All this talk about the BA10 ... now I am even more looking fwd to get to my ‘loot’ ... too bad my travel plans got postponed...


----------



## ostewart

With KZ, more drivers does not mean better sound. I actually really enjoy the ZSA:

http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2019/06/review-kz-zsa-budget-hybrid-iems.html


----------



## archdawg (Jun 10, 2019)

ostewart said:


> With KZ, more drivers does not mean better sound. I actually really enjoy the ZSA:
> 
> http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2019/06/review-kz-zsa-budget-hybrid-iems.html



I've been listening to my new ZSA on the road today and like them quite a bit as well, especially with hip-hop and house tracks.



 

When I got back to our house in the sticks though and took a little break between some trees with my ZS7 ... well ... clarity, details throughout the spectrum, spatial accuracy, width, depth and height of the soundstage, instrument separation and layering even with heavily crowded tracks, speed and precision of the sub-bass without bleed-through into the lower mids, ... in short: a different league.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Are there any must have kz iems out there other than the zs6, zs7, zsn and the ZS10Pro? (those are the ones I have ) preferably something with Detachable cables and with a different sound


----------



## archdawg

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there any must have kz iems out there other than the zs6, zs7, zsn and the ZS10Pro? (those are the ones I have ) preferably something with Detachable cables and with a different sound


No detachable cable but classic KZs with their own fun sound sig and outstanding bang for the buck - the EDR1 and ED9. Even with technically much more capable IEMs in my collection I still enjoy them a great deal.

Next please ...


----------



## pbui44

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there any must have kz iems out there other than the zs6, zs7, zsn and the ZS10Pro? (those are the ones I have ) preferably something with Detachable cables and with a different sound



If you want to buy something other than KZ, the Final Audio E3000 is a great value pick.


----------



## Aparker2005

I've been using my AS16s more and more. I had a huge gig Saturday and used them as my in ears for drumming. 

The level of clarity with them is so good. The bass actually wasn't bad live either. Still doesn't have as much as the zs10 pro, but I also feel the as16 are more comfortable. 

I think I'm done buying iems for a long while with having these 2. They're more than I could ever ask for for stage needs.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I'm still trying to figure out if my KZ ZS6 v2 sound went wonky. If so, I'm staying away from KZ for a while. I just got them. 

They fell on the ground and the magnet in the USB connector may have touched the headphones. They dont sound as good as when they were new...


----------



## katatonicone1

*



			062
		
Click to expand...

*


> . hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt): 402..259..239..244
> worse conductivity (narrower conductor) than its 8 cores sibling.
> very soft and flexible. not ear guides. blue point marks ground/- pin.
> decent sound.
> ...


Guys, which of the two would you recommend. The 8 core with better conductivity or 16 core because of... 16 cores? Thanks.


----------



## randomnin (Jun 11, 2019)

katatonicone1 said:


> Guys, which of the two would you recommend. The 8 core with better conductivity or 16 core because of... 16 cores? Thanks.


I have a 2-pin 053. It's thick, if the cable breaks, I'd say the problem would be in the reliefs or soldering, not in the lack of cores.
Next I need an MMCX cable, I think I'll get a black jcally (I thought that the dark copper of 053 would look fine, but it looks a bit like a thick blingy chain that's lost its shine). Though the forbidden "yoo" one costs 20% less. Doesn't seem anyone's published any measurements, I might take the risk.


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Jun 11, 2019)

What are the darkest / warmest KZs with a front vent? The *front vent* / ear canal vent is the most important bit as I can't stand the pressure created by sealed ear canal IEMs.
You can also come with other suggestions in this thread >> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/front-vented-ear-canal-vented-iems.908616/
Thanks!


----------



## voicemaster

KopaneDePooj said:


> What are the darkest / warmest KZs with a front vent? The *front vent* / ear canal vent is the most important bit as I can't stand the pressure created by sealed ear canal IEMs.
> You can also come with other suggestions in this thread >> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/front-vented-ear-canal-vented-iems.908616/
> Thanks!



Zs7 imho


----------



## gourab1995

KopaneDePooj said:


> What are the darkest / warmest KZs with a front vent? The *front vent* / ear canal vent is the most important bit as I can't stand the pressure created by sealed ear canal IEMs.
> You can also come with other suggestions in this thread >> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/front-vented-ear-canal-vented-iems.908616/
> Thanks!



Bqeyz makes well vented iems. They aren't warm sounding though. They can be best described as warm-bright. You can see 3 vents on the kb100.


 

Kz zs7 on the other hand. Not the same case. Their front vent is pretty tiny. In fact I'm trying to find a way to make it bigger. It's noticeable as a tiny speck vertically above the "L" indictor in the pic


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> Bqeyz makes well vented iems. They aren't warm sounding though. They can be best described as warm-bright. You can see 3 vents on the kb100.



The 2 bigger vents on BQEYZ are rear vents. The front vent is the tiny one by the nozzle. It’s similar in size to the front end on the ZS6 and ZS7.

Almost all front vents are very small (tenths of millimeters). Otherwise, you lose lots of low end frequencies.

You can also add front vents to almost any IEM. I add them to my IEMs all the time when I’m retuning them. All you need is a twist drill and a set of precision micro drill bits (in fractional millimeter sizes). You also need to know where to put the vent of course.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> The 2 bigger vents on BQEYZ are rear vents. The front vent is the tiny one by the nozzle. It’s similar in size to the front end on the ZS6 and ZS7.
> 
> Almost all front vents are very small (tenths of millimeters). Otherwise, you lose lots of low end frequencies.
> 
> You can also add front vents to almost any IEM. I add them to my IEMs all the time when I’m retuning them. All you need is a twist drill and a set of precision micro drill bits (in fractional millimeter sizes). You also need to know where to put the vent of course.



Hmm. Good to know. I just attempted a shortcut to the twist drill and precision micro drill bit method. Used a pair of sewing scissors with sharp ends, twisted out the metal hole with a drill like motion.

It maybe just psychological. I can't measure here. The soundstage is slightly wider. Bass is less present now to my liking. Although I notice higher amount of distortion in extreme volumes. Like at 100.

Edit: the distortion was in the track.


----------



## archdawg

courierdriver said:


> Damn! After so much going back and forth in my head, and resisting buying the ZS7, posts like this make me constantly reconsider. My biggest worry is about the fit. My ZS10 PRO  is very comfortable,  as is my Moondrop KPE. I dont want to take a chance on something that doesn't fit my ears well. But from all that I have read about the ZS7, these are a really good set. I think I'm gonna try to resist them, cause I want my new DAP instead. But after that, I can definitely see these as being a part of my iem collection.


Sounds almost like me and the BA10. They're down to 41€ now and I probably can't resist much longer.
Re. the ZS7 I'm VERY happy that I finally pulled the trigger on those guys; after the initial ~ 150 hours they sound just _amazing_ for those 31€ and again definitely brighter than some reviews would make you believe.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 11, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> Hmm. Good to know. I just attempted a shortcut to the twist drill and precision micro drill bit method. Used a pair of sewing scissors with sharp ends, twisted out the metal hole with a drill like motion.
> 
> It maybe just psychological. I can't measure here. The soundstage is slightly wider. Bass is less present now to my liking. Although I notice higher amount of distortion in extreme volumes. Like at 100.
> 
> Edit: the distortion was in the track.



Ok it's definitely not psychological. I taped them back and gave them a listen. They sounded like they were before. Bass monsters. Deeper sound than wider.

Now they are tamed puppies with the expanded front vent. I'm liking this new sound, less fatiguing for long listens. Hits a lot less harder. Although some  bass detail is lost, a wider soundstage is achieved.

 
Not the best way to do it. But it works


----------



## loomisjohnson (Jun 12, 2019)

archdawg said:


> Sounds almost like me and the BA10. They're down to 41€ now and I probably can't resist much longer.
> Re. the ZS7 I'm VERY happy that I finally pulled the trigger on those guys; after the initial ~ 150 hours they sound just _amazing_ for those 31€ and again definitely brighter than some reviews would make you believe.


i'm past the shiny new toy stage with the zs7 and would opine they're probably the best kz yet--i slightly prefer them to the zs10 pro. they don't play in the same league as the moondrop kp or toneking 9tail, but the difference is less than the price would suggest.


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> Ok it's definitely not psychological. I taped them back and gave them a listen. They sounded like they were before. Bass monsters. Deeper sound than wider.
> 
> Now they are tamed puppies with the expanded front vent. I'm liking this new sound, less fatiguing for long listens. Hits a lot less harder. Although some  bass detail is lost, a wider soundstage is achieved.
> 
> ...



Actually, you could have just poked through the existing vent with a sewing needle. It would have been more accurate. The reason is these vents have a while filter adhered from the inside (like micropore tape).

You can actually see this on any transparent-bodied IEM like the KZ ZSR, ZST, ZSN, ZS10 Pro, CCA C10, etc.

Anyways, that filter restricts the air flow, effectively making the vent hole about 50% ‘smaller’. So if you poke through the white filter, you will in effect make the vent hole ‘bigger’, without actually enlarging the hole.

A very small hole is all that’s needed. For example, I make most nozzle vent holes 0.2 or 0.4mm, which makes a noticeable difference in the bass. Judging from the photo you posted, I estimate the hole you made is about 1.5mm (based on the hole’s size in comparison to an individual wire in the KZ upgrade cable).

I’m glad you liked the result of the mod; that’s all that really matters.

I cringe at the thought of all the aluminum shavings that might have fallen down inside that hole, because the dynamic driver is directly below. The metal shavings and chips will bouncing around on the fragile surface of the dynamic driver’s diaphragm. Whether or not you’ll be able to hear that remains to be seen.

When I drill the vent holes, I am able to extract all shavings and chips as I go, ensuring none end up inside. It’s taken me many tries to perfect my technique though.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

gourab1995 said:


> Bqeyz makes well vented iems. They aren't warm sounding though. They can be best described as warm-bright. You can see 3 vents on the kb100.
> 
> 
> 
> Kz zs7 on the other hand. Not the same case. Their front vent is pretty tiny. In fact I'm trying to find a way to make it bigger. It's noticeable as a tiny speck vertically above the "L" indictor in the pic





Slater said:


> The 2 bigger vents on BQEYZ are rear vents. The front vent is the tiny one by the nozzle. It’s similar in size to the front end on the ZS6 and ZS7.
> 
> Almost all front vents are very small (tenths of millimeters). Otherwise, you lose lots of low end frequencies.
> 
> You can also add front vents to almost any IEM. I add them to my IEMs all the time when I’m retuning them. All you need is a twist drill and a set of precision micro drill bits (in fractional millimeter sizes). You also need to know where to put the vent of course.



Are those front vents large enough to release the pressure to the ear canal? I'm trying to avoid that claustrophobic sensation / "hearing my steps" that I get with my Shure SE215. I don't have such problem with the SoundMagic E10 which has a 1mm front vent (by eye)  
I'm not comfortable with enlarging any holes / don't want to mess the sound. In fact I like how my SoundMagic E10 sounds very much. I don't know why I'm looking for another IEM... But, you know how it is...


----------



## Slater

KopaneDePooj said:


> Are those front vents large enough to release the pressure to the ear canal? I'm trying to avoid that claustrophobic sensation / "hearing my steps" that I get with my Shure SE215. I don't have such problem with the SoundMagic E10 which has a 1mm front vent (by eye)
> I'm not comfortable with enlarging any holes / don't want to mess the sound. In fact I like how my SoundMagic E10 sounds very much. I don't know why I'm looking for another IEM... But, you know how it is...



That’s exactly the primary purpose of front vents.

Also, 1.0mm vent would be an pretty large vent, unless it had some sort of tuning paper or tape over the hole.

Usually when there’s a totally open hole, it’s 0.2-0.6mm. If there’s some form of tuning paper used over the hole, I have seen bigger holes (the ZS5 is a good example).


----------



## mbwilson111

KopaneDePooj said:


> Are those front vents large enough to release the pressure to the ear canal? I'm trying to avoid that claustrophobic sensation / "hearing my steps" that I get with my Shure SE215. I don't have such problem with the SoundMagic E10 which has a 1mm front vent (by eye)
> I'm not comfortable with enlarging any holes / don't want to mess the sound. In fact I like how my SoundMagic E10 sounds very much. I don't know why I'm looking for another IEM... But, you know how it is...



Maybe you would enjoy a good earbud.   That totally eliminates that claustrophobic feeling.  Obviously that is not a solution if you need the isolation.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

Slater said:


> That’s exactly the primary purpose of front vents.
> 
> Also, 1.0mm vent would be an pretty large vent, unless it had some sort of tuning paper or tape over the hole.
> 
> Usually when there’s a totally open hole, it’s 0.2-0.6mm. If there’s some form of tuning paper used over the hole, I have seen bigger holes (the ZS5 is a good example).



Yes, they have paper. Here's how they look, found a photo on head-fi >> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/1703486.jpg


----------



## Slater

KopaneDePooj said:


> Yes, they have paper. Here's how they look, found a photo on head-fi >> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/1703486.jpg



Ah, ok. Yeah, assuming that is a 1.0mm, once you factor in the tuning paper the vent is equal to perhaps a 0.5 or maybe 0.6mm totally open hole with no paper. Make sense?

That’s why if you want to make a vent hole like that ‘bigger’, you don’t need to physically make the hole bigger, you just need to poke a hole in the tuning paper. You just can’t pole too far in the hole or you will poke the driver and destroy it. You have to just baaaaarely pierce through the paper layer and the. stop the needle, as you are only trying to make a hole in the paper itself.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Is there a kz with better/stronger bass than the zs7? Ignoring everything else.


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> Is there a kz with better/stronger bass than the zs7? Ignoring everything else.



ZS4, ZS3E, ZS1 v1 are pretty much the most basshead stuff KZ makes.

Remember that tips and seal make a huge difference to bass. Most KZs are bassy, but if you don’t have a deep or tight enough seal they won’t be powerful enough.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> ZS4, ZS3E, ZS1 v1



Wow really?  I love my ZS3E but I have to be in a bass mood


----------



## Zune

does anyone know how often KZ release a new model? I’m wondering how good a ZS11 Pro would sound


----------



## Slater

Zune said:


> does anyone know how often KZ release a new model? I’m wondering how good a ZS11 Pro would sound



Models get refreshed about every 18 months.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Slater said:


> ZS4, ZS3E, ZS1 v1 are pretty much the most basshead stuff KZ makes.
> 
> Remember that tips and seal make a huge difference to bass. Most KZs are bassy, but if you don’t have a deep or tight enough seal they won’t be powerful enough.


Thanks, I use newbee foam tips so the Seal should be good


----------



## Zune

Slater said:


> Models get refreshed about every 18 months.



Cool, thanks Slater. I'm guessing the 10 Pro hasn't been out long.


----------



## Slater (Jun 11, 2019)

Zune said:


> Cool, thanks Slater. I'm guessing the 10 Pro hasn't been out long.



About 2-3 months.

And there’s no guarantee of that 18 month thing. That’s just been my observation based on their historical model release schedule.

There’s also exceptions. It depends on many things, including how well a model sells, other competing models, their product direction, costs, target market, etc.

For example, there is no ED10. It’s just the same ED9 they’ve been selling for years. The ED9 did get a new driver a while ago, but KZ never said anything, and it is still sold as the ED9, and it was a lot longer than 18 months from the original release.

So bottom line is don’t hold your breath or get your hopes up that by somehow by Christmas there’s gonna be a magical ZS11 Pro. It’s not like Apple or Toyota, where there’s an assurance of a a yearly release. KZ does whatever KZ wants, how they want, when they want.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

My ZS6 v2 seem to be working normally again... not sure what happened with them yesterday. They sound good but I am not a huge fan. ZS7 is very different but better...


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> Actually, you could have just poked through the existing vent with a sewing needle. It would have been more accurate. The reason is these vents have a while filter adhered from the inside (like micropore tape).
> 
> You can actually see this on any transparent-bodied IEM like the KZ ZSR, ZST, ZSN, ZS10 Pro, CCA C10, etc.
> 
> ...



Haha, ofcourse. Like you mention this might be cringe inducing. I only did this because I was already in state willing to sell them off for cheaper.

But I will keep your advice in mind next time I try something like this. If its any assurance, the shavings actually came outward. I was twisting the scissors in a way that thin metal strands were popping out. It was because I was using the sharp side on a slight angle to do it.

But now that I've done this. I'm not planning on selling again. Although I could have done a better job by making the hole like you mention.

After doing this I don't get that feeling that the bass is going to eat me alive on certain tracks and is less congested. Giving the treble more room to shine. Overall a good deal to me.


----------



## pbui44

RikudouGoku said:


> Thanks, I use newbee foam tips so the Seal should be good



Yeah, foam tips seal in the bass, but you have to replace them a lot.  I remember during CanJam RMAF 2014 a lady at the Comply booth helped me out in finding ear tips for my repaired JVC FX700 and they worked great at sealing the bass, but got smelly from my ear wax.  I tried rubbing medical-grade hand sanitzer foam and the Complys literally disintegrated bit-by-bit down to the nozzle grip nubs.  

Yeah, so the latest ear tip craze for me is the KZ starline flip-tip-mod by @Slater and it is even easier to clean, so I can hear clean bass even longer!


----------



## KopaneDePooj (Jun 12, 2019)

OK, new question 
What's the warmest *single dynamic* *front vented* IEM? I'm not really into hybrids or BA. I just like a natural musical sound with a bit of punch / fun / non-fatiguing / full-bodied low mids, Similar to SoundMagic E10 or Shure SE215.
It can be anything else under 50$, not strictly KZ. And I promise I'll end my off-topic here. Remember, it has to have a *front vent hole*.


----------



## Ferrosa

AS12 anyone?
https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1138746705237725184


----------



## Aparker2005

Should be interesting but I just got perfectly content with my zs10 pro and as16. Guess I'll see how the reviews go. Ugh


----------



## PhonoPhi

Ferrosa said:


> AS12 anyone?
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1138746705237725184


Still waiting for AS20 
Conceptualizing AS16 with DD subs and piezo twitters


----------



## archdawg (Jun 12, 2019)

loomisjohnson said:


> i'm past the shiny new stage with the zs7 and would opine they're probably the best kz yet--i slightly prefer them to the zs10 pro. they don't play in the same league as the moondrop kp or toneking 9tail, but the difference is less than the price would suggest.


I guess that's why I haven't purchased anything in that 100-200€ price range for a while. I've said it before but with many good recordings my older, grey ZS6 are perceptually transparent to me most of the time. In those moments there's nothing left to be desired and I couldn't care less if there are technically better IEMs out there. Anyhow, I'm looking forward to auditioning some TOTL IEMs on the mainland in a couple weeks from now, but either I find something that literally blows me a-way right on the spot or my money goes elsewhere and I enjoy my chi-fis and xy cans for another while.
As to the ZS7 ... I love them to bits but ...



Slater said:


> Actually, you could have just poked through the existing vent with a sewing needle. It would have been more accurate. The reason is these vents have a while filter adhered from the inside (like micropore tape).
> 
> You can actually see this on any transparent-bodied IEM like the KZ ZSR, ZST, ZSN, ZS10 Pro, CCA C10, etc.
> 
> ...



... I've had some issues with driver flex on the left earpiece and used a piece of pretty stiff #32 gauge (0,202mm) kanthal wire to open up _both_ front vents in order to keep things balanced. I listened to a trusty test track directly before and after this little operation but couldn't make out any sonic differences; the sub-bass still kicks like a mule but now that driver flex is history.

Edit: like @Slater has mentioned: the 10mm DD sits directly behind that vent hole so in order not to mess up the membrane I used some needle pliers to hold that piece of wire so that only about 3,5mm would stick out - enough to do the trick.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Something new
KZ AS12

https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1138746705237725184?s=19


----------



## randomnin

KopaneDePooj said:


> OK, new question
> What's the warmest *single dynamic* *front vented* IEM? I'm not really into hybrids or BA. I just like a natural musical sound with a bit of punch / fun / non-fatiguing / full-bodied low mids, Similar to SoundMagic E10 or Shure SE215.
> It can be anything else under 50$, not strictly KZ. And I promise I'll end my off-topic here. Remember, it has to have a *front vent hole*.


The KZ 1+1 setups have extremely similar frequency response graphs to SE215. See rtings.com graph comparison tool and try SE215 vs. ZSN ( https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#635/2061/809 ). That, though, doesn't address BA timbre and coherence and whatnot (I'm still on the fence about whether it exists or is it just all in the signature and distortion levels. I do like deconstructionism and reductionism. Indeed.).



KopaneDePooj said:


> Are those front vents large enough to release the pressure to the ear canal? I'm trying to avoid that claustrophobic sensation / "hearing my steps" that I get with my Shure SE215. I don't have such problem with the SoundMagic E10 which has a 1mm front vent (by eye)
> I'm not comfortable with enlarging any holes / don't want to mess the sound. In fact I like how my SoundMagic E10 sounds very much. I don't know why I'm looking for another IEM... But, you know how it is...


I just bought SE215 on AliExpress for 20$ (hooray for patent infringement! I did ask for one without the Shure logo) exactly because I'm aiming for max isolation and claustrophobia. If I can't hear my veins pulsating in an office environment then I'm not nearly there yet! To each one's own, I guess


----------



## RikudouGoku

Slater said:


> ZS4, ZS3E, ZS1 v1 are pretty much the most basshead stuff KZ makes.
> 
> Remember that tips and seal make a huge difference to bass. Most KZs are bassy, but if you don’t have a deep or tight enough seal they won’t be powerful enough.


I have the ZS4, ZSE(blue version), ED9 Super bowl, ED special edition in my shopping cart. Anything bad in it I should remove?


----------



## moisespr123

Mybutthurts said:


> Something new
> KZ AS12
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1138746705237725184?s=19



Nice. Let's see if they use new BA drivers and not the same as we got used to... The AS16 sound was not of my liking...


----------



## Slater

RikudouGoku said:


> I have the ZS4, ZSE(blue version), ED9 Super bowl, ED special edition in my shopping cart. Anything bad in it I should remove?



Ditch the Special Edition and replace it with an EDR1. It looks exactly the same but it has a different driver and sounds better IMO.


----------



## loomisjohnson

RikudouGoku said:


> I have the ZS4, ZSE(blue version), ED9 Super bowl, ED special edition in my shopping cart. Anything bad in it I should remove?


the zse is one kz i never warmed up to--odd fitting and requires amping to sound credible--for a few more bucks you can get the zsn. as per slater, i'd also swap the edr1 for the the edse--it's really good.


----------



## Zune

Slater said:


> About 2-3 months.
> 
> And there’s no guarantee of that 18 month thing. That’s just been my observation based on their historical model release schedule.
> 
> ...



Thanks again Slater. I prefer an unpredictable release schedule. That way we can get some nice surprises


----------



## RikudouGoku

loomisjohnson said:


> the zse is one kz i never warmed up to--odd fitting and requires amping to sound credible--for a few more bucks you can get the zsn. as per slater, i'd also swap the edr1 for the the edse--it's really good.


Already have the zsn and I switched out the Ed special for the edr1. I have the LG g7 as the source so it has good quad dac and pretty good amp


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> the zse is one kz i never warmed up to--odd fitting and requires amping to sound credible--for a few more bucks you can get the zsn. as per slater, i'd also swap the edr1 for the the edse--it's really good.



I didn’t like the ZSE either. Supposedly, the newer blue version sounds better. I’m skeptical of that claim, but who knows maybe KZ did something magical with it.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 12, 2019)

Slater said:


> I didn’t like the ZSE either. Supposedly, the newer blue version sounds better. I’m skeptical of that claim, but who knows maybe KZ did something magical with it.



Blue one still sounds like @$$. As crazy as it sounds, skip the ZSE and get the QKZ version; KD8. It sounds most excellent.







Edit: Adding that I paid a whopping 7.97 CAD for them. I bought them here via the KZ Global store. They have it labeled as the ZSE Special Edition. They're so special, they're actually a QKZ


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just got the spinfits Cp240 Large and Cp155 Large. They are amazing and I like the CP155 the most, they increase the bass and the highs more than the Newbee Foam tips on my Tin T3 and ZS7. Only problem is that the CP155´s nozzle is a little bit too big is the CP145 exactly the same as the CP155 but with a smaller nozzle? In that case im gonna order it.


----------



## Caipirina

Ferrosa said:


> AS12 anyone?
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1138746705237725184


 Wheeeeeee .... here we go again!!!!


----------



## gourab1995

RikudouGoku said:


> Just got the spinfits Cp240 Large and Cp155 Large. They are amazing and I like the CP155 the most, they increase the bass and the highs more than the Newbee Foam tips on my Tin T3 and ZS7. Only problem is that the CP155´s nozzle is a little bit too big is the CP145 exactly the same as the CP155 but with a smaller nozzle? In that case im gonna order it.



Like I mentioned cp155 might be a little loose. Cp145 fits for me. Design wise spinfits in this series is same. Except the cp145 small size which follows cp100 style design. You should be good with medium or large cp145.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jun 12, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> Like I mentioned cp155 might be a little loose. Cp145 fits for me. Design wise spinfits in this series is same. Except the cp145 small size which follows cp100 style design. You should be good with medium or large cp145.


Do you have any experience with the CP360? Might buy that at the same time as CP145 ( gonna wait for the summer sale to start)

EDIT: And im guessing the CP100Z is the same as the CP360 but with a bigger nozzle size?


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 12, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you have any experience with the CP360? Might buy that at the same time as CP145 ( gonna wait for the summer sale to start)
> 
> EDIT: And im guessing the CP100Z is the same as the CP360 but with a bigger nozzle size?



I don't own cp100z and 360, looking at the website they are as you say. Cp100z will be the better fit, since they are closer to the 5mm bore size. Note that a smaller tip bore will increase treble presence and (usually) reduce soundstage, increase silbilance. And if its too big, bass might be diminished to unlikeable levels.


----------



## RikudouGoku

gourab1995 said:


> I don't own cp100z and 360, looking at the website they are as you say. Cp100z will be the better fit, since they are closer to the 5mm bore size. Note that a smaller tip bore will increase treble presence and (usually) reduce soundstage, increase silbilance. And if its too big, bass might be diminished to unlikeable levels.


Ok thanks, then I will buy the CP145 Large and CP100Z Large.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 12, 2019)

It had been a while since i gave a listen to the ES4. These are a gem to me. That pleasing boomy bass, present mids (very well done, some of the best from kz), highs that could be tuned better, but not unacceptable at all with good presence. Good pair with my smartphone. Obviously not geared towards neutrality or serious tuning. It doesn't throw music in your face like the zs7(with the upgrade cable) or zsn pro, rather just presents it to you. Perfect for casual listening and getting those reggae vibes on.

Tried on an upgrade cable that I bought for the zs7. I've been hooked since. Think this iem will go on as a future legend for me as much as the zst, ate and ed9 currently are.


----------



## gourab1995

RikudouGoku said:


> Ok thanks, then I will buy the CP145 Large and CP100Z Large.



A fine decision


----------



## Nimweth

I have eventually got round to trying out the two nozzle options on the ED9. The shiny ones produce a strong V shape with recessed mids which gives the effect of detached areas of sound. The dull ones give a more balanced presentation and fill in the mids nicely. The treble had plenty of life. I like these in this configuration and for £8 they are a steal. I prefer them to the MH755 which I also got recently, which for me, seem somewhat veiled in the mids and have an overwhelming bass. The treble is somewhat grainy as well. Not really my kind of sound profile.


----------



## mbwilson111

Nimweth said:


> I have eventually got round to trying out the two nozzle options on the ED9. The shiny ones produce a strong V shape with recessed mids which gives the effect of detached areas of sound. The dull ones give a more balanced presentation and fill in the mids nicely. The treble had plenty of life. I like these in this configuration and for £8 they are a steal. I prefer them to the MH755 which I also got recently, which for me, seem somewhat veiled in the mids and have an overwhelming bass. The treble is somewhat grainy as well. Not really my kind of sound profile.



That is the filter that I also prefer.

As for the MH755, if you are finding them veiled @Slater has suggested removing the nozzle grill and taking out the little piece of foam that is inside the nozzle.  Some people are preferring it that way.  I did it to one of mine and now I can't remember which one


----------



## Nimweth

mbwilson111 said:


> That is the filter that I also prefer.
> 
> As for the MH755, if you are finding them veiled @Slater has suggested removing the nozzle grill and taking out the little piece of foam that is inside the nozzle.  Some people are preferring it that way.  I did it to one of mine and now I can't remember which one


When I'm feeling brave I may try that!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 12, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> When I'm feeling brave I may try that!



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/son...55-mh1c-ex300-etc.900005/page-8#post-14813364

You just need a needle to lift the mesh screen a little and tweezers to pick it out.  It is a tiny bit of foam... just sitting in the nozzle...not glued or anything


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> I prefer them to the MH755 which I also got recently, which for me, seem somewhat veiled in the mids and have an overwhelming bass. The treble is somewhat grainy as well. Not really my kind of sound profile.





mbwilson111 said:


> As for the MH755, if you are finding them veiled @Slater has suggested removing the nozzle grill and taking out the little piece of foam that is inside the nozzle.  Some people are preferring it that way.  I did it to one of mine and now I can't remember which one



If the bass is too much, all you have to do is cover the bass vent on the shell. If you look along the seam of the shell, usually at the 12 o’clock position you’ll see a large vent. Cover that with something (painterss tape, micropore, blue tac) and you’ll reduce the bass and make the sound more balanced.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 12, 2019)

The KZ ES4 sounds amazing today. I never plan on buying the ZS10 Pro. 

PS: KZ's huge failure is the lack of community they have created around the brand. All we have is this thread? What?

I just found an employee's of BQEYZ on Instagram and after looking at their photos i felt closer to the brand and want to buy my first pair.

Stop releasing so many models KZ and start creating a KZ Fan Community!


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The KZ ES4 sounds amazing today. I never plan on buying the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> PS: KZ's huge failure is the lack of community they have created around the brand. All we have is this thread? What?
> 
> ...



You think we want a fan club?  What are we...like 12?

It is a commodity.  We pay for it.


----------



## pbui44

mbwilson111 said:


> You think we want a fan club?  What are we...like 12?
> 
> It is a commodity.  We pay for it.



The bass of my ZSAs sometimes make me feel like I am 4 sitting next to my brother’s Peavey speakers again.  Does that count???


----------



## courierdriver

gourab1995 said:


> Like I mentioned cp155 might be a little loose. Cp145 fits for me. Design wise spinfits in this series is same. Except the cp145 small size which follows cp100 style design. You should be good with medium or large cp145.


I have ordered 2 pairs of M and 1 pair of L from Aliexpress and am waiting for them to arrive. I'm not a huge fan of silicon tips, so this is an experiment for me. I will be using them for my ZS10 PRO  and Moondrop Kanas Pro.  So far, the New Bee foam tips have been working quite well for me (I like them much more than Comply foams), but I'm looking to enhance the bass and bring out more mids and highs on both sets of my iems. I hope the Spinfits will do what I hope they will do.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

KZ should definitely drive around in a giant IEM car and give away free IEMS and have little mini concerts in grocery store parking lots. 

Worked great for Oscar Meyer.


----------



## pbui44

BadReligionPunk said:


> KZ should definitely drive around in a giant IEM car and give away free IEMS and have little mini concerts in grocery store parking lots.
> 
> Worked great for Oscar Meyer.


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


>




https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/15-food-jingles-youll-never-forget


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The KZ ES4 sounds amazing today. I never plan on buying the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> PS: KZ's huge failure is the lack of community they have created around the brand. All we have is this thread? What?
> 
> ...


The ZS10 PRO  is a really great sounding earphone for the price. It deserves to be auditioned. For $50 bucks, it performs on par with alot more expensive sets. For many people, the fit is also more comfortable.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jun 12, 2019)

pbui44 said:


> The bass of my ZSAs sometimes make me feel like I am 4 sitting next to my brother’s Peavey speakers again.  Does that count???



Definitely!  For those of us who have loved speaker based systems, it is a great feeling if an iem can achieve that sensation.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 12, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> The ZS10 PRO  is a really great sounding earphone for the price. It deserves to be auditioned. For $50 bucks, it performs on par with alot more expensive sets.


I dont know any KZ Fanatics in my city.  I just got the Moondrop Crescent and will audition other brands as well before peaking back into KZ land. My iem knowledge is narrow minded = KZ. I need to change that.

PS: Do you wanna know something crazy? I swear my ES4 are better than my ZS6 v2. I think that pair are either over rated or mine arent made right?


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I dont know any KZ Fanatics in my city.  I just got the Moondrop Crescent and will audition other brands as well before peaking back into KZ land. My iem knowledge is narrow minded = KZ. I need to change that.
> 
> PS: Do you wanna know something crazy? I swear my ES4 are better than my ZS6 v2. I think that pair are either over rated or mine arent made right?



I think you just get into different moods... like everyone.  Some days the magic happens with a certain iem... some days not.


----------



## alex5908

What's the smallest size of the stock tips for ZS7 in mm?


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> What's the smallest size of the stock tips for ZS7 in mm?


----------



## courierdriver (Jun 12, 2019)

Slater said:


>


I haven't tried the Starline tips on my ZS10 PRO yet. I did use the supplied medium tips that came on them for several days though, and I kinda liked them. Bass was a bit rolled off though, but I thought that the mids and highs were quite clear. Wish they would supply different bore sizes and a bigger selection of SML of this new tip. I think this might be a better upgrade to the Starline tips. Just my opinion, of course. Note that this was in the early stages of use...before break in. I switched to Complys  and then New Bee medium tips, which helped bring up the bass. The New Bees are, IMHO a much better and more comfortable set.


----------



## alex5908

Slater said:


>


Thanks Slater. You are an angel (as always been)!


----------



## pbui44

mbwilson111 said:


> Definitely!  For those of us who have loved speaker based systems, it is a great feeling if an iem can achieve that sensation.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I dont know any KZ Fanatics in my city.  I just got the Moondrop Crescent and will audition other brands as well before peaking back into KZ land. My iem knowledge is narrow minded = KZ. I need to change that.
> 
> PS: Do you wanna know something crazy? I swear my ES4 are better than my ZS6 v2. I think that pair are either over rated or mine arent made right?


I'm not a KZ fanatic by any stretch. I never owned any KZ products before my recent purchase of ZS10 PRO. But honestly, these things sound great, and make me wanna check out more of their gear. Their pricing fits my budget, so why not??!!


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> I haven't tried the Starline tips on my ZS10 PRO yet. I did use the supplied medium tips that came on them for several days though, and I kinda liked them. Bass was a bit rolled off though, but I thought that the mids and highs were quite clear. Wish they would supply different bore sizes and a bigger selection of SML of this new tip. I think this might be a better upgrade to the Starline tips. Just my opinion, of course. Note that this was in the early stages of use...before break in. I switched to Complys  and then New Bee medium tips, which helped bring up the bass. The New Bees are, IMHO a much better and more comfortable set.



As much as people swear by the New Bee tips, I've never tried them in my life. It's really been due to the fact that I don't really use foam tips, so I always thought it would have been a waste of money buying an eartip kit that included 50% foam tips.

Are the silicone tips any good? Is there a similar tip (I might be familiar with) the silicone tips can be compared to, so I know what to expect if I decide to order a set?


----------



## courierdriver (Jun 12, 2019)

Slater said:


> As much as people swear by the New Bee tips, I've never tried them in my life. It's really been due to the fact that I don't really use foam tips, so I always thought it would have been a waste of money buying an eartip kit that included 50% foam tips.
> 
> Are the silicone tips any good? Is there a similar tip (I might be familiar with) the silicone tips can be compared to, so I know what to expect if I decide to order a set?


I'm afraid I can't compare too much at this time. I have Spinfit CP145's coming, as well as 2 sets of New Bee foam and silicone combo. I bought a set of 6 pairs of the New Bees  when I got my KanasPro back in March, and they worked much better than the stock silicones that came with the KPE. The stocks were bass light, and none of the sizes were ideal. In fact, I'm pretty sure I got 2 of 3 tips in either small or medium size. I had a set of Comply foams kicking around so I used them for about 2 weeks. I bought those when I bought my Edifier bluetooth iems last year, but I really didn't like them too much. Those Complys had a foam wax guard that I felt reduced the mids and highs too much. Bass was enhanced, though. I ordered the New Bees and found the medium size to work great, but still wished for a bit more bass fullness. In terms of comfort and isolation though, they beat the hell out of the Complys. I used the second set on my ZS10 PRO  and liked them with the New Bees also. I just wish there was a bit more treble extension. So a week or two ago, I ordered 2 more sets of New Bees,  which now also included silicones. I'm looking to see myself, how they compare with the New Bee foams I already own, as well as the Spinfits that are also on their way. I'll be sure to post my impressions once they all arrive and have had a chance to compare. I can honesty say though, the New Bee foams are way better for comfort than the Complys. They also sounds more transparent. Not to mention, the New Bees are much less expensive.


----------



## Assimilator702

Mybutthurts said:


> Something new
> KZ AS12
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1138746705237725184?s=19



Let’s hope it’s the counterpoint to the CCA A10 with 2 extra bass drivers and tuned to have good bass presence. I’m not liking the initial impressions of the A10.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 13, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> I have ordered 2 pairs of M and 1 pair of L from Aliexpress and am waiting for them to arrive. I'm not a huge fan of silicon tips, so this is an experiment for me. I will be using them for my ZS10 PRO  and Moondrop Kanas Pro.  So far, the New Bee foam tips have been working quite well for me (I like them much more than Comply foams), but I'm looking to enhance the bass and bring out more mids and highs on both sets of my iems. I hope the Spinfits will do what I hope they will do.



Foam tips don't create that room effect as much as silicone tips do. The spinfits generally tend to let the lower frequencies breathe a little better, tone down subbass, increases mid bass, treble depends on the bore size. Usually makes the highs pleasing to listen to. Mids will be clearer. They add a slight sort of reverb to the sound in my experience, instead of being totally dry.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> I'm not a KZ fanatic by any stretch. I never owned any KZ products before my recent purchase of ZS10 PRO. But honestly, these things sound great, and make me wanna check out more of their gear. Their pricing fits my budget, so why not??!!


Check out their future gear. Other than the ZS7, you are not missing much.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> If the bass is too much, all you have to do is cover the bass vent on the shell. If you look along the seam of the shell, usually at the 12 o’clock position you’ll see a large vent. Cover that with something (painterss tape, micropore, blue tac) and you’ll reduce the bass and make the sound more balanced.


Thank you. I will try that, I have some micropore tape.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> As much as people swear by the New Bee tips, I've never tried them in my life. It's really been due to the fact that I don't really use foam tips, so I always thought it would have been a waste of money buying an eartip kit that included 50% foam tips.
> 
> Are the silicone tips any good? Is there a similar tip (I might be familiar with) the silicone tips can be compared to, so I know what to expect if I decide to order a set?



I swear by New Bee tips. But, don't use the foam tips at all so as you say there's a lot of waste in each box.
The large silicone tips are excellent for me and have quite as a wide bore.
I went looking thru gearbest & AliExpress for tips recently and came across some cheap tips from ALWUP store on AliExpress.
Can order different sizes or a selection of sizes. Bore is slightly smaller than new bees.
Would post a link, but they never work for me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

My ZS10Pro just arrived and im gonna pick them up in a few hours, Do you need to burn it in a lot to get the "real" sound or do they sound good out of the box?


----------



## HungryPanda

They sound good straight away and then just get better


----------



## usuario74

One question for all the KZ experts here..
I already own ZSN (purple), AS10, ATE, ZSR, ED. My DAP is an Xduoo X20.
So what would give me something more different to what I already have between ZS7 and ZS10 Pro.
I need help deciding my next purchase.
Thank you.


----------



## HungryPanda

BQYEZ BQ3


----------



## revand

Mybutthurts said:


> Something new
> KZ AS12
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1138746705237725184?s=19



Can you see a possibility of a coming ZS16 with 2 DD + 6 BA drivers?
I know that such a device would be too big using the present drivers, but who knows, maybe the Chinese Engineers are already working on much smaller, but very effective drivers...
It would combine the advantages of the two driver type: great bass with the new DD drivers and great soundstage and transparency with using the BA drivers.
At the moment I am using a ZS5 and a ZSN, both are excellent, but I am waiting for a Giant Killer IEM from KZ.


----------



## revand

gourab1995 said:


> It had been a while since i gave a listen to the ES4. These are a gem to me. That pleasing boomy bass, present mids (very well done, some of the best from kz), highs that could be tuned better, but not unacceptable at all with good presence. Good pair with my smartphone. Obviously not geared towards neutrality or serious tuning. It doesn't throw music in your face like the zs7(with the upgrade cable) or zsn pro, rather just presents it to you. Perfect for casual listening and getting those reggae vibes on.
> 
> Tried on an upgrade cable that I bought for the zs7. I've been hooked since. Think this iem will go on as a future legend for me as much as the zst, ate and ed9 currently are.




Which upgrade cable you have chosen? Could you send a link of that purchase?


----------



## Slater (Jun 13, 2019)

usuario74 said:


> One question for all the KZ experts here..
> I already own ZSN (purple), AS10, ATE, ZSR, ED. My DAP is an Xduoo X20.
> So what would give me something more different to what I already have between ZS7 and ZS10 Pro.
> I need help deciding my next purchase.
> Thank you.



When you say something “more different”, can you elaborate as to what you mean by that so we can try to help?

Because ear buds and full size headphones are about as “more different” than the ones you have in your list.

If you just mean a “more different” sound signature, then what type of sound signature are you looking for more of? More flat? More basshead? More treble? More forward midrange?


----------



## Slater

revand said:


> Which upgrade cable you have chosen? Could you send a link of that purchase?



That’s the KZ 8-core *flat braided* SPC upgrade cable.

KZ makes 2 other 8-core upgrade cables, but they’re both bi-colored (yellow/silver and copper/silver). The flat braid one is all silver.

Be aware that it does turn slightly green after a while, due to oxidation of the conductor wires (it doesn’t affect anything other than the look though).


----------



## usuario74

Slater said:


> When you say something “more different”, can you elaborate as to what you mean by that so we can try to help?
> 
> Because ear buds and full size headphones are about as “more different” than the ones you have in your list.
> 
> If you just mean a “more different” sound signature, then what type of sound signature are you looking for more of? More flat? More basshead? More treble? More forward midrange?




Between ZS7 and ZS10Pro which one would give me a (more) different sound signature to the ones I already have.
I want to try different sound signatures.So which of these two departs more from what I already have.
I have been reading lots and lots post on this thread. That is the reason I already own five KZs (yes I blame you all). And then after some weeks away I return to see what is new or trending.
I had decided I would try the ZS7 but then start reading good things about the ZS10Pro. I cant buy them both now so....  I want to get one that would expand my sound signatures collection.
Thanks.


----------



## revand

Slater said:


> That’s the KZ 8-core *flat braided* SPC upgrade cable.
> 
> KZ makes 2 other 8-core upgrade cables, but they’re both bi-colored (yellow/silver and copper/silver). The flat braid one is all silver.
> 
> Be aware that it does turn slightly green after a while, due to oxidation of the conductor wires (it doesn’t affect anything other than the look though).



Many thanks...what is your opinion about this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005450947.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.3.922c83f2szjwGt
Looks nice ...
I bought for my ZS5 this cable and it brought a great improvement to SQ.


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> Yes, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, C10, etc are all over-ear.
> 
> What kind of sound signature are you looking for? What’s your budget?
> 
> Lots of good choices available for wearing ‘down’.



Well something like the ZSR, good for Trance and Psychdelic Trance
Budget a la KZ


----------



## Slater

revand said:


> Many thanks...what is your opinion about this one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005450947.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.3.922c83f2szjwGt
> Looks nice ...
> I bought for my ZS5 this cable and it brought a great improvement to SQ.



I don’t have any personal experience with that exact cable. However, I did recently place an order for some of those to tear down to see if they’re real or fake.


----------



## Wiljen

RikudouGoku said:


> Are there any must have kz iems out there other than the zs6, zs7, zsn and the ZS10Pro? (those are the ones I have ) preferably something with Detachable cables and with a different sound



Zs5 v1 if you can find one.


----------



## Slater

Wiljen said:


> Zs5 v1 if you can find one.



Good call.

He’ll get the best result using an amp with them though.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 13, 2019)

Slater said:


> That’s the KZ 8-core *flat braided* SPC upgrade cable.
> 
> KZ makes 2 other 8-core upgrade cables, but they’re both bi-colored (yellow/silver and copper/silver). The flat braid one is all silver.
> 
> Be aware that it does turn slightly green after a while, due to oxidation of the conductor wires (it doesn’t affect anything other than the look though).





revand said:


> Many thanks...what is your opinion about this one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005450947.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.3.922c83f2szjwGt
> Looks nice ...
> I bought for my ZS5 this cable and it brought a great improvement to SQ.





Slater said:


> I don’t have any personal experience with that exact cable. However, I did recently place an order for some of those to tear down to see if they’re real or fake.



The cable I'm using is actually the jcally 8core cable. It tends to improve soundstage and signal quality for a compromise in imaging. I don't recommend it for zs7. It will bring out the bass way too much. I'm back on the stock cable for zs7. The silver cable from kz is good for more treble focus. But like Slater mentions, they will oxidize and turn green.

Here is a link for your reference:
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bgUO44U0

You also mention you had "that" cable from "that" store. So you should be fine with that. Don't think these will be a step up from "that".


----------



## RikudouGoku

WOW just picked up my ZS10Pro with the kz 8 Core gold/silver upgrade cable and WOW IT'S AMAZING!

It's like a zs7 (lows) + tin t3 (mods, highs) and a zsn (body) combined into one, simply amazing.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> WOW just picked up my ZS10Pro with the kz 8 Core gold/silver upgrade cable and WOW IT'S AMAZING!
> 
> It's like a zs7 (lows) + tin t3 (mods, highs) and a zsn (body) combined into one, simply amazing.



ZS10 pro looks real good value under $30 and I'm assuming it will reach that value either in June sale or 11.11 if it hits ~$25 I'll bite the bullet. Till then KB100+Tennmak Pro+Piano+**** are more than enough for me


----------



## Nimweth

After further listening I must say I'm impressed with the ED9, it's the best single dynamic KZ I have heard, it has very good levels of detail and resolution, especially at the price. It joins the ZS7 and ZSN Pro at the top of my list of favourite KZ models. I am using the dull nozzles and Spiral Dots on them. They scale well, too, sounding very good on my Moto G3 but gain extra quality through my DAP and headphone amplifier. Very pleased!


----------



## Slater

gourab1995 said:


> The cable I'm using is actually the jcally 8core cable. It tends to improve soundstage and signal quality for a compromise in imaging. I don't recommend it for zs7. It will bring out the bass way too much. I'm back on the stock cable for zs7. The silver cable from kz is good for more treble focus. But like Slater mentions, they will oxidize and turn green.
> 
> Here is a link for your reference:
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bgUO44U0
> ...



Sorry, my bad. The photo was kind of dark, and I didn’t zoom in and examine it close enough.


----------



## gourab1995

Slater said:


> Sorry, my bad. The photo was kind of dark, and I didn’t zoom in and examine it close enough.



Took that half decent photo in the middle of the night, so I don't blame you.


----------



## macky112 (Jun 13, 2019)

For those that find the ZS5/ZS6/ZS7 housing to be uncomfortable, I stumbled upon some old double flange tips from Meelectric M6, and the double tips are longer than the large starlines and also has bigger bore

Worth a try


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Dani157 said:


> ZS10 pro looks real good value under $30 and I'm assuming it will reach that value either in June sale or 11.11 if it hits ~$25 I'll bite the bullet. Till then KB100+Tennmak Pro+Piano+**** are more than enough for me



Yea already one place on mobile app selling for $31 - $2 coupon = $29. I again stared at the buy now button for about 10 minutes but backed down. 

I wouldn't be shocked to see it in the c10 $24 range for and after the sale.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yea already one place on mobile app selling for $31 - $2 coupon = $29. I again stared at the buy now button for about 10 minutes but backed down.
> 
> I wouldn't be shocked to see it in the c10 $24 range for and after the sale.



Yeah. It's inevitable. Anything in C10 range should be a steal if I were to judge it by all the reviews and impressions. Best KZ of all time at ~$25? Totally legit and worth it.


----------



## DocHoliday

Nimweth said:


> After further listening I must say I'm impressed with the ED9, it's the best single dynamic KZ I have heard, it has very good levels of detail and resolution, especially at the price. It joins the ZS7 and ZSN Pro at the top of my list of favourite KZ models. I am using the dull nozzles and Spiral Dots on them. They scale well, too, sounding very good on my Moto G3 but gain extra quality through my DAP and headphone amplifier. Very pleased!



It's unfortunate that you've never experienced the ED10, which - IMHO - can go toe to toe with the ED9 as best single dynamic KZ model.



 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ed10-knowledge-zenith.22990/reviews



Honorable mention goes to the ED3 "Perfection" which you'd probably enjoy more than the ED9 based on your preferences.



 

With the ED3 "Perfection" the original founders of Knowledge Zenith targeted Audio-Technica's $500 50th Anniversary Flagship CKW1000ANV sound signature. Sure, the snobs jeer and ridicule KZ routinely today but a handful of us know that the $10 ED3 "Perfection" was a welcome improvement over the $500 CKW1000ANV.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed3-perfection.22988/

https://www.thecontraptionist.blog/...ce-to-begin-your-audiophile-journey-pt-2/amp/



p.s. - I wonder how the 2014 ED3 "Perfection" holds up against today's Tin Audio T3. Loomis or B9 can probably chime in on that.


----------



## Nimweth

Yes, I had the ED3 perfection, but one channel went dead. I also had the ED3 Acme, HDS1 and HDS3. I have never heard the ED10, though. ED3 Perfection was quite V shaped as I recall with slightly recessed mids. ED3 Acme was more balanced, similarly the HDS1 and HDS3. ED9 seems to be more detailed and clean. I have the T3 and it is my current favourite, the clarity, resolution and refinement are very addictive! ED9 with dull nozzles has a similar overall profile and is amazing for the money.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jun 13, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> Yes, I had the ED3 perfection, but one channel went dead. I also had the ED3 Acme, HDS1 and HDS3. I have never heard the ED10, though. ED3 Perfection was quite V shaped as I recall with slightly recessed mids. ED3 Acme was more balanced, similarly the HDS1 and HDS3. ED9 seems to be more detailed and clean. I have the T3 and it is my current favourite, the clarity, resolution and refinement are very addictive! ED9 with dull nozzles has a similar overall profile and is amazing for the money.



IMHO
ED3 "Acme has the more pronounced bass and slightly recessed midrange. 
ED3 "Perfection" has gently boosted (but quick) bass, gently boosted treble and an excellent midrange.  Consider the ED3 "Perfection as the sweet spot between the ED9 gold filters and ED9 brass filters. 

I'll have to revisit my view of this but I've considered the ED3 "Perfection" to be KZ's single dynamic predecessor (and perhaps inspiration) to the ZS6 sound signature, albeit with a smidgen less bass. Just did a direct comparison and I find the ZS6 to be a more open and airy 3D-like presentation of the ED3 "Perfection" sound signature on tracks like this.


----------



## tzincbg

Guys, any cable with mic for the KZ ZS7? The ones from BA 10 and ES4 fall off and can't stay connected even seconds.
I bought a Nicehck cable which fits well and is more comfortable but there is no version with mic.


----------



## Nimweth

DocHoliday said:


> IMHO
> ED3 "Acme has the more pronounced bass and slightly recessed midrange.
> ED3 "Perfection" has gently boosted (but quick) bass, gently boosted treble and an excellent midrange.  Consider the ED3 "Perfection as the sweet spot between the ED9 gold filters and ED9 brass filters.
> 
> ...



OK, thanks for that, it's hard to remember when it was a while ago! I wonder if we could lobby KZ to revisit single dynamics and come up with a Kanas Pro type IEM? They have been totally focused on hybrids and multi BAs for some time. Also a single BA would be interesting!


----------



## DocHoliday

Nimweth said:


> OK, thanks for that, it's hard to remember when it was a while ago! I wonder if we could lobby KZ to revisit single dynamics and come up with a Kanas Pro type IEM? They have been totally focused on hybrids and multi BAs for some time. Also a single BA would be interesting!



Unless I am mistaken, founders Keith (K) and Zen (Z) are long gone by now. No telling which path KZ Acoustics will take moving forward but this thread is probably the best place to make any requests known. As far as the West is concerned this thread is probably the main feedback loop for future endeavors.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

START A FRIGGEN FAN CLUB KZ! T-shirts and everything. Maybe develop a nice MMORPG based on the IEM industry, so that all of us fans can fellowship with each other. Also, your going to need that car that looks like a ZS7 ASAP. Don't even think of doing anything else first. Without the car all is for nought! 
Then start paying celebrities to pimp your gear. Hone in on those dudes with face tats and multicolored hair. Your also going to need to partner with some crappy company and come out with a product line of body wash and shampoos. Oh! And then jack all your prices up to $200-$300. File an IPO and start trading on NASDAQ. 

Or you could just start with some nice single dynamic IEMS with removable cables and price them competitively.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 13, 2019)

tzincbg said:


> Guys, any cable with mic for the KZ ZS7? The ones from BA 10 and ES4 fall off and can't stay connected even seconds.
> I bought a Nicehck cable which fits well and is more comfortable but there is no version with mic.



Even though the stock KZ cable on zs7 has a very high resistance, I find it good to maintain the bass from being overwhelming. I've bought an 8 core cable from jcally. Also have the flat silver only and silver copper cable. Only the flat silver kz is still acceptable. To me the stock cable is the best for maintaining its sound, especially to preserve mids. Utility and aesthetics not taken into account. And I don't find the stock cable falling off at all for me. I use it indoors mostly though.


----------



## loomisjohnson

DocHoliday said:


> IMHO
> ED3 "Acme has the more pronounced bass and slightly recessed midrange.
> ED3 "Perfection" has gently boosted (but quick) bass, gently boosted treble and an excellent midrange.  Consider the ED3 "Perfection as the sweet spot between the ED9 gold filters and ED9 brass filters.
> 
> I'll have to revisit my view of this but I've considered the ED3 "Perfection" to be KZ's single dynamic predecessor (and perhaps inspiration) to the ZS6 sound signature, albeit with a smidgen less bass. Just did a direct comparison and I find the ZS6 to be a more open and airy 3D-like presentation of the ED3 "Perfection" sound signature on tracks like this.



i still have the ed3c (acme) and the ed10 (haven't heard the perfection). the ed3 acme sounds a lot like and has alot of the same virtues as the ed9, including a very natural presentation and really exceptional layering and instrument placement; my only nit is the midrange is a little underbaked compared to the ed9. the ed10 (which i think scrambler turned me onto) is a very different beast than kz's typical tuning--it's a bright forward w-shape with a lot of bass thwak and very good overall clarity--it doesn't have a big stage and can get a little congested, but is still a credible piece that sounds better (and is better built)  than most mid-priced western-branded fare. as for the t3, i haven't heard it, tho i have the t2, which i respect but don't cherish, purely as a matter of sound preference.


----------



## tzincbg

gourab1995 said:


> Even though the stock KZ cable on zs7 has a very high resistance, I find it good to maintain the bass from being overwhelming. I've bought an 8 core cable from jcally. Also have the flat silver only and silver copper cable. Only the flat silver kz is still acceptable. Though to me the stock cable is the best for maintaining its sound, especially to preserve mids. Utility and aesthetics not taken into account. And I don't find the stock cable falling off at all for me. I use it indoors mostly though.


I would be somewhat happy even with the stock cable with mic but I can't find it for sale, either.


----------



## Slater

Boy bands - that’s where the money is at. Like NKOTB or Backstreet Boys. KZ could do posters in Teen Beat magazine, with photos of cool KZ IEMs that we tear out and hang on our walls.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 13, 2019)

tzincbg said:


> I would be somewhat happy even with the stock cable with mic but I can't find it for sale, either.



https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/eaTcBlq

How about this. Type A with mic. Very cheap as well. A warning this has the metal memory ear guide. I don't mind it.

If the link doesn't work just search for kz zs6 cable. Should be there in the results.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Boy bands - that’s where the money is at. Like NKOTB or Backstreet Boys. KZ could do posters in Teen Beat magazine, with photos of cool KZ IEMs that we tear out and hang on our walls.


KZ would be wise to score MLB, NBA, NHL and NFL licensing to stamp team logos directly on the shell. Upcharge 100% for some dope NYY IEMS. Maybe get into the Legal Marijuana craze and develop a nice hybrid. 

Don't forget Energy drinks KZ. 

KZ if your lurking here I will gladly accept a high level position and bring my expertise on what it takes to succeed in the west directly to you.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Boy bands - that’s where the money is at. Like NKOTB or Backstreet Boys. KZ could do posters in Teen Beat magazine, with photos of cool KZ IEMs that we tear out and hang on our walls.




...or we could just hang all the iems on the walls.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 13, 2019)

Hang all the dead kz iems and make a zombie themed iem showcase where the dead single dynamic driver iems come back to life and eat out the drivers of the multi BA ones.

KZ announce their latest single driver. Bam!

Market as: precision zombo-acoustic technology. Diaphragm made from pure zombie cells. Produce BA crunchy highs, put multi driver iems to graveyard. Dead mids are alive. Sleeping lows will eat out of your brain!


----------



## courierdriver

RikudouGoku said:


> WOW just picked up my ZS10Pro with the kz 8 Core gold/silver upgrade cable and WOW IT'S AMAZING!
> 
> It's like a zs7 (lows) + tin t3 (mods, highs) and a zsn (body) combined into one, simply amazing.


Yeah,  this is a really good set. Really comfortable to use for 2 or more hours. I really like mine alot too.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Boy bands - that’s where the money is at. Like NKOTB or Backstreet Boys. KZ could do posters in Teen Beat magazine, with photos of cool KZ IEMs that we tear out and hang on our walls.


Hahahahahahaha!!!! That's too funny! So, it sounds like you want boy bands, who are now in their 30's or 40's to represent modern American music??? Ya, those bands were great in their time, but if we want KZ to improve, we should really reach a little older. Michael Jackson,  Prince, Duran Duran, Tears For Fears...for Pop music. I'd dig a bit deeper in 70's rock and Southern Rock...like Skynyrd, Allman brothers,  Kiss, Zeppelin, Bad Company, Black Sabbath, etc. Only then, could KZ figure our what their western audiences like.


----------



## pbui44

BadReligionPunk said:


> KZ would be wise to score MLB, NBA, NHL and NFL licensing to stamp team logos directly on the shell. Upcharge 100% for some dope NYY IEMS. Maybe get into the Legal Marijuana craze and develop a nice hybrid.
> 
> Don't forget Energy drinks KZ.
> 
> KZ if your lurking here I will gladly accept a high level position and bring my expertise on what it takes to succeed in the west directly to you.



Plz keep calm and keep KZ cheap af.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DocHoliday said:


> Unless I am mistaken, founders Keith (K) and Zen (Z) are long gone by now. No telling which path KZ Acoustics will take moving forward.


That's sad... where did the founders go? At what point in KZ's life did they leave? Who controls KZ now?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

RikudouGoku said:


> WOW just picked up my ZS10Pro with the kz 8 Core gold/silver upgrade cable and WOW IT'S AMAZING!
> 
> It's like a zs7 (lows) + tin t3 (mods, highs) and a zsn (body) combined into one, simply amazing.


Geezus orgasms, Batman. But does this new ZS10 Pro kick some ass on BQYEZ or TFZ?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

revand said:


> Many thanks...what is your opinion about this one:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005450947.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.3.922c83f2szjwGt
> Looks nice ...
> I bought for my ZS5 this cable and it brought a great improvement to SQ.


Thanks for the help!


----------



## Nimweth

loomisjohnson said:


> i still have the ed3c (acme) and the ed10 (haven't heard the perfection). the ed3 acme sounds a lot like and has alot of the same virtues as the ed9, including a very natural presentation and really exceptional layering and instrument placement; my only nit is the midrange is a little underbaked compared to the ed9. the ed10 (which i think scrambler turned me onto) is a very different beast than kz's typical tuning--it's a bright forward w-shape with a lot of bass thwak and very good overall clarity--it doesn't have a big stage and can get a little congested, but is still a credible piece that sounds better (and is better built)  than most mid-priced western-branded fare. as for the t3, i haven't heard it, tho i have the t2, which i respect but don't cherish, purely as a matter of sound preference.


Yes, that's how I remember the ED3 Acme too, it was a well-balanced sound, as you say, the ED9 has a little more life in the mids.


----------



## KopaneDePooj

BadReligionPunk said:


> (...)
> Or you could just start with some nice single dynamic IEMS with removable cables and price them competitively.


+1


----------



## tnelmo

DocHoliday said:


> Unless I am mistaken, founders Keith (K) and Zen (Z) are long gone by now. No telling which path KZ Acoustics will take moving forward but this thread is probably the best place to make any requests known. As far as the West is concerned this thread is probably the main feedback loop for future endeavors.




I emailed them with a simple question, and haven't heard anything from them.  Have they ever replied to a post on this forum?


----------



## B9Scrambler

tnelmo said:


> I emailed them with a simple question, and haven't heard anything from them.  Have they ever replied to a post on this forum?



They showed up a few years ago (when G.K. was still a part of the equation) and sent a few regular contributers a gift of a Bluetooth headset. Haven't heard from them since.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> They showed up a few years ago (when G.K. was still a part of the equation) and sent a few regular contributers a gift of a Bluetooth headset. Haven't heard from them since.



Wow, very cool!

G.K.?


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jun 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> Wow, very cool!
> 
> G.K.?



If I recall correctly, KZ and G.K. merged in the early days and KZ remained the active brand. You'll see G.K. printed on a lot of early KZs.

Ex. ED3 plug vs. ED3c plug


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> If I recall correctly, KZ and G.K. merged in the early days and KZ remained the active brand. You'll see G.K. printed on a lot of early KZs.
> 
> Ex. ED3 plug vs. ED3c plug



I always wondered what that GK was on old plugs. I didn't know GK was affiliated with KZ. I had always just assumed it was just the company that made the plugs (like you have plugs from Oyaide and whatnot).

Wow, you learn something new every day! Thanks for the history lesson, sir


----------



## courierdriver

RikudouGoku said:


> WOW just picked up my ZS10Pro with the kz 8 Core gold/silver upgrade cable and WOW IT'S AMAZING!
> 
> It's like a zs7 (lows) + tin t3 (mods, highs) and a zsn (body) combined into one, simply amazing.


Yeah, I really love the sound sig of my ZS10 PRO. I've got a balanced JCally 8 core cable on it, and it really brings the low, deep bass out, and fleshed out the mid bass a bit more. It sounds awesome to me, and I'm constantly impressed by it every time I listen to a new track on them. If I want more bass, or mids or treble, it responds well to EQ with my Hiby Music app on my phone, connected to my Fiio Q1MK2 via USB out. With this kind of SQ it's hard to justify spending considerably more on a dap. Thing is, this combo DOES take away from the phone's functionality. But, damn...the sound is soooo killer! I soooo badly want the Fiio M11, but I love the EQ options on the Hiby app. Not sure if the EQ on the Fiio works as well.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jun 14, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I really love the sound sig of my ZS10 PRO. I've got a balanced JCally 8 core cable on it, and it really brings the low, deep bass out, and fleshed out the mid bass a bit more. It sounds awesome to me, and I'm constantly impressed by it every time I listen to a new track on them. If I want more bass, or mids or treble, it responds well to EQ with my Hiby Music app on my phone, connected to my Fiio Q1MK2 via USB out. With this kind of SQ it's hard to justify spending considerably more on a dap. Thing is, this combo DOES take away from the phone's functionality. But, damn...the sound is soooo killer! I soooo badly want the Fiio M11, but I love the EQ options on the Hiby app. Not sure if the EQ on the Fiio works as well.



M11 is a beast. So fast and fluid. Sounds great. Was a very big upgrade in sound compared to my Cayin N5, which was a large upgrade over iPod 5.5. The M11 is android and thus you can download and use the hiby app on the Fiio M11. 

I am on cloud nine with this thing.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> M11 is a beast. So fast and fluid. Sounds great. Was a very big upgrade in sound compared to my Cayin N5, which was a large upgrade over iPod 5.5. The M11 is android and thus you can download and use the hiby app on the Fiio M11.
> 
> I am on cloud nine with this thing.



Wow that really says a lot. The N5 is no slouch.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Wow that really says a lot. The N5 is no slouch.



Right. I love my N5, but wow! Fiio isn't playing. Was saving up for the Hiby R6 Pro but then all the reviews of m11 from the Chinese release started pouring in, all positive and I started thinking hmm...$450 is less then $800. The straw that broke the camels back was @Hawaiibadboy review comparing it to much more expensive daps while showcasing how fast and responsive the UI was. Am not disappointed at all. 

Now I have extra monies to buy stuff. Now what do I buy? 

The buzz on the TFZ no3 is intriguing. 
I need KB1 and KB100 in my life. 

hmm...


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> M11 is a beast. So fast and fluid. Sounds great. Was a very big upgrade in sound compared to my Cayin N5, which was a large upgrade over iPod 5.5. The M11 is android and thus you can download and use the hiby app on the Fiio M11.
> 
> I am on cloud nine with this thing.


I love you...but you're not helping me save money! Damn!


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> Right. I love my N5, but wow! Fiio isn't playing. Was saving up for the Hiby R6 Pro but then all the reviews of m11 from the Chinese release started pouring in, all positive and I started thinking hmm...$450 is less then $800. The straw that broke the camels back was @Hawaiibadboy review comparing it to much more expensive daps while showcasing how fast and responsive the UI was. Am not disappointed at all.
> 
> Now I have extra monies to buy stuff. Now what do I buy?
> 
> ...


I really wanna pull the plug, and get the TFZ No.3. It's an intriguing option to the KPE, but I wanna get a dap more. Next month, I hope...I'll get the M11. Then, I might spring for the earphones on 11/11.


----------



## DynamicEars

BadReligionPunk said:


> Right. I love my N5, but wow! Fiio isn't playing. Was saving up for the Hiby R6 Pro but then all the reviews of m11 from the Chinese release started pouring in, all positive and I started thinking hmm...$450 is less then $800. The straw that broke the camels back was @Hawaiibadboy review comparing it to much more expensive daps while showcasing how fast and responsive the UI was. Am not disappointed at all.
> 
> Now I have extra monies to buy stuff. Now what do I buy?
> 
> ...



definitely both!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 15, 2019)

My Grey  ZS5 v2 arrived today. I really liked the sound right away. I think it sounds better than the Black ZS6 v2.

I believe it was Slater that said the ZS5 v2 is the ZS6 v1? With Sibilance and all? Is my hearing bad? I didn't notice any sibilance yet.

As good as people say the ZS10 Pro is... I think I'm done buying KZ's for a while. I just bought the ZS5, ZS6 and ZS7 in the last couple months.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

BadReligionPunk said:


> Right. I love my N5, but wow! Fiio isn't playing. Was saving up for the Hiby R6 Pro but then all the reviews of m11 from the Chinese release started pouring in, all positive and I started thinking hmm...$450 is less then $800. The straw that broke the camels back was @Hawaiibadboy review comparing it to much more expensive daps while showcasing how fast and responsive the UI was. Am not disappointed at all.
> 
> Now I have extra monies to buy stuff. Now what do I buy?
> 
> ...



KB100 for sure. Totally worth $50


----------



## Zune

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I really love the sound sig of my ZS10 PRO. I've got a balanced JCally 8 core cable on it, and it really brings the low, deep bass out, and fleshed out the mid bass a bit more. It sounds awesome to me, and I'm constantly impressed by it every time I listen to a new track on them. If I want more bass, or mids or treble, it responds well to EQ with my Hiby Music app on my phone, connected to my Fiio Q1MK2 via USB out. With this kind of SQ it's hard to justify spending considerably more on a dap. Thing is, this combo DOES take away from the phone's functionality. But, damn...the sound is soooo killer! I soooo badly want the Fiio M11, but I love the EQ options on the Hiby app. Not sure if the EQ on the Fiio works as well.



I've nearly got the same setup as you. ZS10 Pro, JCally Cable and HiBy Music App. I'm just using and R6 rather than a phone and it rocks! It's seems to be getting better and better by the day too. It's surprising me in a pleasant way every day. Music i would normally dismiss on my old setup is suddenly interesting to listen to.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 16, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> KB100 for sure. Totally worth $50


Someone said it lacked bass though. So, they preferred the KC2 or something?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Someone said it lacked bass though. So, they preferred the KC2 or something?


Bass is fine for me but it is surely not basshead levels. Tip rolling helps in bass/treble tweaks.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Someone said it lacked bass though. So, they preferred the KC2 or something?



The KB100 does not lack bass for me but it does not produce headache inducing levels.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Someone said it lacked bass though. So, they preferred the KC2 or something?



KC2 is bass light. No rumble or slam at all. Don't know if its a fit issue, or what. There are 2-3 different graphs dependant on which vents you cover up and how much you cover them, but I don't cover any of the vents.. 100% cannot listen to bass heavy genres on it without getting bored. Everything else though sounds great. Like really great! 

I think the KB1 has boomy bleedy bass and sounds close to KB100, which has better bass control/no bleeding. I will know when I get them though. KB100 sounds like a good all rounder to me. like maybe a cleaned up c10. Thats what Im hoping for. KB1 I dont really want, but its like $25. I will just buy it cuz.


----------



## wepunwepun

Hello everyone! I've been having another problem with my TRN BT20 attachment again for my KZ AS10. The left ear attachment doesn't want to turn on. At first I thought it just ran out of battery but charging it doesn't seem to do anything. To be more specific, charging seems to make the LED go blink between red and blue as if it were being reset instead of the usual just red if it's being charged. Was wondering if this means it's damaged? Thank you in advance!


----------



## Slater

wepunwepun said:


> Hello everyone! I've been having another problem with my TRN BT20 attachment again for my KZ AS10. The left ear attachment doesn't want to turn on. At first I thought it just ran out of battery but charging it doesn't seem to do anything. To be more specific, charging seems to make the LED go blink between red and blue as if it were being reset instead of the usual just red if it's being charged. Was wondering if this means it's damaged? Thank you in advance!



That sounds like the button is jammed.

Sometimes when you push in the micro usb to charge the BT20, it pushes the whole circuit board into the BT20 shell a few mms. This causes the button to get jammed due to being misaligned.

The effect of this can vary depending on how it’s jammed. It could be jammed in such a way that the control button can’t be pushed at all. Or, it could be jammed in such a way that the button is continually being pushed. The latter case (what I think is happening) would cause the BT20 to go into pairing mode (ie the blinking red and blue lights).

So let me ask you this: Is the control button functioning properly? In other words, when you push it multiple times are you getting a normal ‘click’ each time, and the button pops back out like normal?


----------



## gourab1995

BadReligionPunk said:


> KC2 is bass light. No rumble or slam at all. Don't know if its a fit issue, or what. There are 2-3 different graphs dependant on which vents you cover up and how much you cover them, but I don't cover any of the vents.. 100% cannot listen to bass heavy genres on it without getting bored. Everything else though sounds great. Like really great!
> 
> I think the KB1 has boomy bleedy bass and sounds close to KB100, which has better bass control/no bleeding. I will know when I get them though. KB100 sounds like a good all rounder to me. like maybe a cleaned up c10. Thats what Im hoping for. KB1 I dont really want, but its like $25. I will just buy it cuz.



Kc2 tuning is compareable with the tin t2s. Kb100 is the middle ground between the K2 and kc2 in terms of bass response.

The reason I didn't get the Kc2 while deciding between that and kb100. I wanted something to with a bit of a slam rather than cold sound, but tastefully done. The kb100 has more of a slap than a slam. A playful slap on the cheek. On a fleshy cheek, not a bony one. And it goes deep when needed.

But then I read in a review that the KC2 and kb100 can be similar sounding when you use wide bore on kb100 and kz starline tips in the Kc2.

Overall I'm in love with this iem. Its making it much easier to resist a kz buying spree.


----------



## wepunwepun

Slater said:


> That sounds like the button is jammed.
> So let me ask you this: Is the control button functioning properly? In other words, when you push it multiple times are you getting a normal ‘click’ each time, and the button pops back out like normal?



The button doesn't seem to be jammed. At the very least, pressing the button on the defective left feels the same as the non-defective right. I actually had the same suspicion and opened it up. I tried "realigning" the thing but nada. My worry is I somehow damaged the thing because of sweat. I'm only asking now, but the problem actually started for a little over 2 weeks now. I was at the gym at the time playing music when the left earpiece suddenly turned off on its own. Thought it was just low on juice but I never actually got the warning message it usually produces. Was able to turn it on for a bit before it turned back off on its own again.


----------



## Slater

wepunwepun said:


> The button doesn't seem to be jammed. At the very least, pressing the button on the defective left feels the same as the non-defective right. I actually had the same suspicion and opened it up. I tried "realigning" the thing but nada. My worry is I somehow damaged the thing because of sweat. I'm only asking now, but the problem actually started for a little over 2 weeks now. I was at the gym at the time playing music when the left earpiece suddenly turned off on its own. Thought it was just low on juice but I never actually got the warning message it usually produces. Was able to turn it on for a bit before it turned back off on its own again.



Yeah, if the button pushes normally then that’s not the issue.

I definitely know that sweat kills the BT20. I was gifted a dead pair from another member who used it work work out with, and when I opened it up to examine it, all of the components on circuit board were crusty and corroded looking due to salt from sweat. I’m convinced that’s what killed his.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> Yeah, if the button pushes normally then that’s not the issue.
> 
> I definitely know that sweat kills the BT20. I was gifted a dead pair from another member who used it work work out with, and when I opened it up to examine it, all of the components on circuit board were crusty and corroded looking due to salt from sweat. I’m convinced that’s what killed his.


Good to know. I use mine out and about and sometimes at work, where I work outside. So far so good. Hopefully someone can end up sweat proofing them. I really like mine. I'm not a fan of the neck wire thing, so tws is a god send for me. 

Just an FYI, and I don't know if it will help someone, but when not in use I store them in a container with silica gel packets in side. Do that to all my iems just cuz.


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## Slater (Jun 16, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Good to know. I use mine out and about and sometimes at work, where I work outside. So far so good. Hopefully someone can end up sweat proofing them. I really like mine. I'm not a fan of the neck wire thing, so tws is a god send for me.
> 
> Just an FYI, and I don't know if it will help someone, but when not in use I store them in a container with silica gel packets in side. Do that to all my iems just cuz.



You could seal the seam where the cover is using clear or black silicone glue. It would only take a small bit, and once it’s wiped off and dries no one would even see it.

You could also use E8000 flexible glue (the smaller size with the needle applicator) or even UV glue.


----------



## SenyorC

I know what I am about to post is not exactly new news but I thought I would share my initial opinions about the ZS10 pro that is getting so much love lately.

Recently I have been working on some reviews of the IEMs that have been building up over the past few months (nothing out of the ordinary). My favourite <50€ IEMs  have easily been the Tin T2s and those are what I have been using for comparisons.

However, about a week ago, one side of the T2s died and while waiting for the replacements to arrive, the ZS10 pro arrived.

I have only spent a few hours with them but I can honestly say that I think the T2s have been dethroned in the sub 50€ category.


----------



## MrMajony

SenyorC said:


> I know what I am about to post is not exactly new news but I thought I would share my initial opinions about the ZS10 pro that is getting so much love lately.
> 
> Recently I have been working on some reviews of the IEMs that have been building up over the past few months (nothing out of the ordinary). My favourite <50€ IEMs  have easily been the Tin T2s and those are what I have been using for comparisons.
> 
> ...



$5 sony mh755 kills my tin t2 from my list


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## courierdriver

Zune said:


> I've nearly got the same setup as you. ZS10 Pro, JCally Cable and HiBy Music App. I'm just using and R6 rather than a phone and it rocks! It's seems to be getting better and better by the day too. It's surprising me in a pleasant way every day. Music i would normally dismiss on my old setup is suddenly interesting to listen to.


Yeah, the 10 PRO is one of those iems that makes you want to rediscover your entire music collection. This set is crazy good and with alot of the types of music I listen to, I'm finding I like it a bit more sometimes even to my KanasPro.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, the 10 PRO is crazy good and with alot of the types of music I listen to, I'm finding I like it a bit more sometimes even to my KanasPro.


You said a bit more "sometimes" though. Things work that way with a lot of iems.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Looking forward to the AS12. While AS16 are my favourite iems due to their superb treble performance, I would like to see configuration like 4x treble, 1x mid and 1x bass BA 

I have also ZS10 Pro, which dissapointed me after a while. Their forward treble has two peaks, at around 5kHz and 10 kHz. The second one bothers me quite often.


----------



## nxnje

As i was ill in the bed i started listening to many of iems again.
I have to say prefer the bass on the dynamic driver.
For example the AS06 has great bass with nice texture but doesn't have the slam of other DDs from KZ.
When i listen to DD bass i feel it more natural and slam while the feeling with BA is different with more accurate and resolving punch.

In any case, the as06 are really undervalued.


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## gourab1995 (Jun 17, 2019)

nxnje said:


> As i was ill in the bed i started listening to many of iems again.
> I have to say prefer the bass on the dynamic driver.
> For example the AS06 has great bass with nice texture but doesn't have the slam of other DDs from KZ.
> When i listen to DD bass i feel it more natural and slam while the feeling with BA is different with more accurate and resolving punch.
> ...



BA bass isn't very pleasing to listen to (at least the one I tried). It doesn't have the sound pressure to create a drum like effect. DD bass hits you, BA bass passes through you. It's a choice to summersault into the pool of bass with a loud DD splash or dive smoothly into it with a BA.

A big reason why I returned my as10 and don't find it good to listen to music for enjoyment. It's ok to test how music sounds. I like to "feel" the strength of the low end to a certain extent. The zs7 addressed that in a good way.


----------



## Nimweth

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Looking forward to the AS12. While AS16 are my favourite iems due to their superb treble performance, I would like to see configuration like 4x treble, 1x mid and 1x bass BA
> 
> I have also ZS10 Pro, which dissapointed me after a while. Their forward treble has two peaks, at around 5kHz and 10 kHz. The second one bothers me quite often.


I think I would prefer 1 bass BA, 2 mid BAs, 1 mid-high BA (as in the ZS7) and 2 treble BAs. The 31005 BA works really well in the ZS7 and the ****.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Nimweth said:


> I think I would prefer 1 bass BA, 2 mid BAs, 1 mid-high BA (as in the ZS7) and 2 treble BAs. The 31005 BA works really well in the ZS7 and the ****.


That would be a little disappointing, I expect and believe in 31736 BA.


----------



## cleg

Everyone has a ZS10 Pro review. I don't want to be an exception


----------



## Nimweth

xxAMAROKxx said:


> That would be a little disappointing, I expect and believe in 31736 BA.


No need to be disappointed, the 31736 is a treble unit so there could be two of those as well as the 31005!


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## archdawg (Jun 17, 2019)

Just picked these puppies up at the post office ...





... fired them up 10 mins later and man ... this is the shhhh..... right out of the box.
The first things I noticed were the impressive clarity, spaciousness, air and the spatial precision; to my ears this is a league above my ZS7 and 6s. The highs sound a wee bit peaky here and there but nothing to worry about right now. The lower frequencies sound just right to me, not as fast and dry like the ZS7 but pretty impulsive, fast enough, no bleeding worth talking about and really well behaved. Where the ZS7 seem to have a little edge to my ears is with percussive instruments; they sound distinctively more cohesive, punchy and snappy but in terms of their timbre the 10Pro win.
Anyway, just some first impressions, I've yet to try different tips, cables and sources but anyway ... I've never been that impressed by any IEMs right out of the box that much .... great job KZ!
And now babies ... burn, burn, burn, hahaha...


----------



## KopaneDePooj

How does the ZS7 compare to the FiiO FH1 in terms of sound signature, and bass / mids / treble breakdown?


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You said a bit more "sometimes" though. Things work that way with a lot of iems.


True, but when I originally bought my Kanas Pro a few months ago, I was shocked at how good they were and very much in league with much higher priced iems. They were giant killers in terms of price to performance. The KZ ZS10 PRO is another such type of iem, and it's only $50. I can't wait to try a few more different brands and styles of tips on them. I have Spinfit CP145 on the way, as well as New Bee silicones.


----------



## Assimilator702

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Looking forward to the AS12. While AS16 are my favourite iems due to their superb treble performance, I would like to see configuration like 4x treble, 1x mid and 1x bass BA
> 
> I have also ZS10 Pro, which dissapointed me after a while. Their forward treble has two peaks, at around 5kHz and 10 kHz. The second one bothers me quite often.



Which tips do you use with your AS16? I just got the CCA A10 and treble is tuned way too hot for my tastes. It’s like treble murder. The closest I can get to an acceptable sound is using foam tips from the JVC Marshmallows with no rubber tube in the core which in my case boosted the treble more. I then place a small speck of foam into the bore of the tip. 

Now I’m looking for some foam tips that will affect the sound in a similar manner. The ones I have are all pink and purple.


----------



## Assimilator702

courierdriver said:


> True, but when I originally bought my Kanas Pro a few months ago, I was shocked at how good they were and very much in league with much higher priced iems. They were giant killers in terms of price to performance. The KZ ZS10 PRO is another such type of iem, and it's only $50. I can't wait to try a few more different brands and styles of tips on them. I have Spinfit CP145 on the way, as well as New Bee silicones.



Have you tried the brother of the ZS10 PRO? CCA C10? They make very nice companions to each other. Kind of like an HD600 and HD650.


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## 1clearhead (Jun 18, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> Which tips do you use with your AS16? I just got the CCA A10 and treble is tuned way too hot for my tastes. It’s like treble murder. The closest I can get to an acceptable sound is using foam tips from the JVC Marshmallows with no rubber tube in the core which in my case boosted the treble more. I then place a small speck of foam into the bore of the tip.
> 
> Now I’m looking for some foam tips that will affect the sound in a similar manner. The ones I have are all pink and purple.


I also received my CCA A10 and agree that though it has incredible and accurate deep bass the treble is very active to the point of sounding sibilant. This kind of reminds me on how so many people here either liked or hated the KZ ZS6.  Sounds exactly like the same story! Can someone compare the CCA A10 with the KZ ZS6 (only if you own one)? 
...I have a hunch they can be more similar than different.


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## xxAMAROKxx (Jun 18, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> Which tips do you use with your AS16?



With AS16, I like silicone tips more. Sound is darkened a little and has better details (compared to foam tips). These tips are also very comfotable.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41+jZ-XIZ4L._SX425_.jpg (on TSMR)

I tried also KZ "Gold + Silver" cable with AS16. It adds some brightness to the sound and it is too much for me. Pure copper is better here.


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## archdawg (Jun 18, 2019)

ZS Pro10 - 24h later

Regarding my comparison to the ZS7 from yesterday I need to clarify that the "league above" only refers to the spatial accuracy of the 10Pro, nothing else. When I got back home I started to compare the 10Pro against the ZS7 on my mobile rig (Xiaomi Max2 > Sonata USB DAC > UAPP) using my trusty test tracks as usual and boy, how different they sound. First things first: as much as I like the ZS10 after the first couple hours I really miss the fast, dry bass and the speedy impulsiveness of the 7s, especially obvious with all kinds of percussion. The 7 hit me like a brick - TOCK! TOCK!, whereas the 10 sound more like a rubber hammer tOM tOM with a less cohesive attack phase and less impact, no matter on what source. Fast impulses are rendered  distinctively slower with more decay up to the higher mids, no matter if it's more LF based percussion like congas, bass drums or toms or perc. without lower frequencies like claves, cowbells and the like. Heck, to me the speed (attack/decay) of the 7s is so addictive that I start to miss it on any of my other IEMs.
When it comes to cymbals and higher pitched instruments like violins though I slightly prefer the more natural timbre of 10Pro; right out of the box their highs already sounded a tad more natural to my ears (after more than 200 hours on the 7s that distinct ~7.9 kHz peak still spoils the experience a bit on some tracks).
Now, after I went through a number of test tracks with their stock copper cable I hooked the 10Pro up to my silver-grey 8-core Kinboofi (lower impedance) and couldn't believe how much effect this had on their sound. The bass got much stronger and dominating to a point that the balance and spatial aspects started to fall apart. I've never experienced a more significant sonic change after a simple cable change and so I spent a good while switching back and forth between those 2 cables (2 for a start) with the same sonic effects - again, hard to believe .
BTW, with the stock cable that came with the 10Pro I noticed a lower volume on the left earpiece (~5-6dB); on the Kinboofi or my ZSN Pro cable both earpieces sound equally loud.
I've already ordered an 8-core silver/gold KZ cable; can't wait to hear what difference it makes.

More first impressions later (space, mids, vocals, whatever, ...).


----------



## SenyorC

I am looking for a couple of cables and I have tried to make my way through the thread in search of answers but I come out slightly more confused than I go in!!

I am wanting 3x balanced (2.5mm) cables, one with MMCX connectors, one with two pin connectors to fit KZ B type and one with two pin connectors to fit C type (I think I got that right  )

I am not looking for anything super expensive, it is only to be able to compare SE vs Balanced on the IEMs that I own.

Could one of you cable guru's point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## nicksson (Jun 18, 2019)

archdawg said:


> ZS Pro10 - 24h later
> ...
> Now, after I went through a number of test tracks with their stock copper cable I hooked the 10Pro up to my silver-grey 8-core Kinboofi (lower impedance) and couldn't believe how much effect this had on their sound. The bass got much stronger and dominating to a point that the balance and spatial aspects started to fall apart. I've never experienced a more significant sonic change after a simple cable change and so I spent a good while switching back and forth between those 2 cables (2 for a start) with the same sonic effects - again, hard to believe .
> BTW, with the stock cable that came with the 10Pro I noticed a lower volume on the left earpiece (~5-6dB); on the Kinboofi or my ZSN Pro cable both earpieces sound equally loud.
> ...


I have bought the silver-plated KZ super-cable and (like you) I have switched it with the stock cable of my ZS10 Pro and AS10 for 101 times, but never noted big differences (except perhaps the placebo effect). Maybe your ZS10 Pro stock cable is defectuos?


----------



## hakuzen

SenyorC said:


> I am looking for a couple of cables and I have tried to make my way through the thread in search of answers but I come out slightly more confused than I go in!!
> 
> I am wanting 3x balanced (2.5mm) cables, one with MMCX connectors, one with two pin connectors to fit KZ B type and one with two pin connectors to fit C type (I think I got that right  )
> 
> ...


check my lists..


----------



## archdawg

nicksson said:


> I have bought the silver-plated KZ super-cable and (like you) I have switched it with the stock cable of my ZS10 Pro and AS10 for 101 times, but never noted big differences (except perhaps the placebo effect). Maybe your ZS10 Pro stock cable is defectuos?


Like I posted above that cable has an issue with the balance between the left and right channel - ~5-6dB difference at the output and I already replaced it.
Back to cables in general me thinks that for anyone who ever wasted serious time on designing and tuning amps or crossovers and the like it should be pretty clear that _any_ link in the signal chain effects the output signal to some degree. In case of earphone cables some quick glances over @hakuzen's excellent lists (Kudos!) shows that just their LF impedance can vary by several 100%! Now, in connection with the output impedance of the source, impedances and transfer functions of the crossover circuit and the sensivity and impedance curves of the different drivers it would be impossible for such a change of impedances and even less than that NOT to have an objective, measurable effect on the acoustic output of those drivers - audible or not, especially on low-impedance sources - your average DAP for example. 
What I don't get is that generalized ubiquitous non-sense on the 'sound of materials' or cables (and more often than not more _expensive_ cables get the better reviews). How a cable objectively performs in a _specific_ signal chain always depends on its complex impedance and its relation to the parameters of _that one specific chain from the source to the drivers as well as the signal and its levels _and can't be generalized.


----------



## hakuzen

archdawg said:


> Like I posted above that cable has an issue with the balance between the left and right channel - ~5-6dB difference at the output and I already replaced it.
> Back to cables in general me thinks that for anyone who ever wasted serious time on designing and tuning amps or crossovers and the like it should be pretty clear that _any_ link in the signal chain effects the output signal to some degree. In case of earphone cables some quick glances over @hakuzen's excellent lists (Kudos!) shows that just their LF impedance can vary by several 100%! Now, in connection with the output impedance of the source, impedances and transfer functions of the crossover circuit and the sensivity and impedance curves of the different drivers it would be impossible for such a change of impedances and even less than that NOT to have an objective, measurable effect on the acoustic output of those drivers - audible or not, especially on low-impedance sources - your average DAP for example.
> What I don't get is that generalized ubiquitous non-sense on the 'sound of materials' or cables (and more often than not more _expensive_ cables get the better reviews). How a cable objectively performs in a _specific_ signal chain always depends on its complex impedance and its relation to the parameters of _that one specific chain from the source to the drivers as well as the signal and its levels _and can't be generalized.


+1, yup.
aiming to lowest impedance you can is a must, specially if using BA iems, like we do, but also in general.
i didn't believe in sophisticated and expensive materials either.. until i tried some neotech up-occ wires. materials do matter; maybe it's a 5-10%, and the prices are not justified to get such improvement, but perfectionists with plenty wallet will surely feel glad with them


----------



## archdawg (Jun 18, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> +1, yup.
> aiming to lowest impedance you can is a must, specially if using BA iems, like we do, but also in general.
> i didn't believe in sophisticated and expensive materials either.. until i tried some neotech up-occ wires. materials do matter; maybe it's a 5-10%, and the prices are not justified to get such improvement, but perfectionists with plenty wallet will surely feel glad with them



Aiming for the lowest impedance cable can be a pitfall for example if any specific IEM in question has been tuned for optimum performance on the end of a different signal chain (source > cable) e.g. to sound best with its cheap, usually relatively higher impedance stock cable hooked up to a smartphone with higher output impedance or if you aim for a different FR response (individual preferences) or not to forget optimised cohesiveness of your IEM on your individual sound rig(s).
Now if I were to design an IEM I'd certainly want it to perform 'best' (technically) at the end of a low-impedance chain but I have no idea how much of a role this plays in the design and tuning phases e.g. of an average chi-fi IEM, if at all, lol.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 18, 2019)

archdawg said:


> Aiming for the lowest impedance cable can be a pitfall for example if any specific IEM in question has been tuned for optimum performance on the end of a different signal chain (source > cable) or if you aim for a different FR response (individual preferences) or not to forget optimised cohesiveness of your IEM on your individual sound rig(s).
> Now if I were to design an IEM I'd certainly want it to perform 'best' (technically) at the end of a low-impedance chain but I have no idea how much of a role this plays in the design and tuning phases e.g. of an average chi-fi IEM.



Absolutely correct. After wanting to believe that lower impedance cable always makes the sound better, I was fooling myself. I tried the zs7 with the lower resistance cable from kz themselves (silver flat). It sure does make the signal clearer, but it boosts the bass and treble to such a degree that the mids are crawling for support often. I also tried jcally 8core silver cable thinking that, oh kz must make mediocre cables let's try something else. On the jcally the soundstage was clearer but imaging took a big hit, also the bass was overpowering things. In the end, the stock cable still sounded the most pleasing (smoother) with the most amount of cohesiveness. Out of the three, despite the stock cable being the least conductive. I think it is best to stick to the cable that comes along with the original ear pieces unless and until there is a complete necessity to change the cable.

If one really has to alter the sound. It is better to look for better eartips. After all that experimenting that is what I have learned. Also the vent mod fortunately turned out to help a lot as well.


----------



## nicksson

And what if the sound rig stay unchanged and the only changing item is the cable? I doubt that a 0,2/0,3 ohm (!!!) or even a 0,5 ohm difference between cables can produce noticeable differences in sounding. Maybe that can be measurable with your highly capable measurement device, but are you sure that for a human that difference will be more than the placebo effect? Am I'm not thinking here to the ears of Mozart, who maybe would have sensed the difference ...


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## gourab1995

nicksson said:


> And what if the sound rig stay unchanged and the only changing item is the cable? I doubt that a 0,2/0,3 ohm (!!!) or even a 0,5 ohm difference between cables can produce noticeable differences in sounding. Maybe that can be measurable with your highly capable measurement device, but are you sure that for a human that difference will be more than the placebo effect? Am I'm not thinking here to the ears of Mozart, who maybe would have sensed the difference ...



I don't have or use a measuring rig. I do refer graph measurements from various reviewers. I let my ears do most of the work. And yes I did notice the differences between the cables with my ears. Not immediately, but over 4-5 trials with each one of them for a long duration of time (avg. 3 days). Cable measurements were provided by @hakuzen. Big thanks to him. After you do notice the difference it is hard to unhear them.

As far as Mozart is concerned. The person making his instrument probably would have a better idea of sound than him...


----------



## archdawg

nicksson said:


> And what if the sound rig stay unchanged and the only changing item is the cable? I doubt that a 0,2/0,3 ohm (!!!) or even a 0,5 ohm difference between cables can produce noticeable differences in sounding. Maybe that can be measurable with your highly capable measurement device, but are you sure that for a human that difference will be more than the placebo effect? Am I'm not thinking here to the ears of Mozart, who maybe would have sensed the difference ...


Let's stick with relations. On a source with 0.1.Ohm output impedance a change from a 0.1 to a 0.5 Ohm cable translates to up to a 300% !!! change in current, depending on what follows behind that initial part of the chain. No need to mention what an effect this change of cables has on a source with an even lower impedance.


----------



## nicksson

gourab1995 said:


> ...  yes I did notice the differences between the cables with my ears. Not immediately, but over 4-5 trials with each one of them for a long duration of time (avg. 3 days). ..
> As far as Mozart is concerned. The person making his instrument probably would have a better idea of sound than him...


The first sentence seems to be the perfect definition for the placebo effect, isn't it? 
As far as the second sentence is concerned, the reference to the ears of Mozart was a joke, but the person who made his pianos was a very highly qualified sound engineer with tons of graph-measurement devices and installations, all powered by steam-machines...


----------



## nicksson (Jun 18, 2019)

archdawg said:


> ... On a source with 0.1.Ohm output impedance a change from a 0.1 to a 0.5 Ohm cable translates to up to a 300% !!! change in current, depending on what follows behind that initial part of the chain. No need to mention what an effect this change of cables has on a source with an even lower impedance.


And what if the sound producing iem have a 30 ohm impedance? What tell you the relations in this case? Dont look the source without the iem...


----------



## PhonoPhi

nicksson said:


> And what if the sound producing iem have a 30 ohm impedance? What tell you the relations in this case? Dont look the source without the iem...


Exactly!
The worst case (most demabding scenario) is 12-15 Ohm IEMs.

By the same token, hearing the difference in cables for high-impedance IEM is hard(er) to explain.


----------



## archdawg (Jun 18, 2019)

nicksson said:


> And what if the sound producing iem have a 30 ohm impedance? What tell you the relations in this case? Dont look the source without the iem...


Impedance at what frequency?
I've explicitly said 'depending on what follows on the signal chain'.
It goes without saying that the higher the impedance at a specific frequency of your IEM, the less effect those little changes in the cable and source impedances have (in a simple setup) BUT the single impedance number in the manual (more often than not measured at 1kHz) doesn't give you any insight into the sum-impedance of the IEMs configuration at other frequencies and that _can_ look dramatically different, usually in the lower frequency ranges.



PhonoPhi said:


> Exactly!
> 
> The worst case (most demabding scenario) is 12-15 Ohm IEMs.



Not necessarily THE worst but pretty common among IEMs, because again the impedance at lower frequencies can dive right into single-digit figures and be pretty challenging for less than stellar output amps. 

Anyway, when it comes to _sonic_ changes I still trust my ears more than any numbers or graphs. If I would have ignored the effects of that cable change last night I could as well be set with some nice $10 earbuds and the idea that some higher end stuff sounds just the same.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 18, 2019)

nicksson said:


> The first sentence seems to be the perfect definition for the placebo effect, isn't it?
> As far as the second sentence is concerned, the reference to the ears of Mozart was a joke, but the person who made his pianos was a very highly qualified sound engineer with tons of graph-measurement devices and installations, all powered by steam-machines...



Placebo effect? If anything my observation disproves the "placebo effect" that I had regarding resistance in wires. Please tell your retro-future Mozart engineer to build a machine that describes/depicts sound in terms of human hearing and feeling.

Even if such a machine existed, it wouldn't represent a 100% accurate outcome all the time. Even the machine will have factors affecting the read, like its wiring, cable quality, heat, temperature, pressure etc. that would affect the final result. Would you still say in that case the machine is having a placebo effect when it gives you 90-95% consistent results after multiple test runs? No, you sit down and accept it. Because machines don't make mistakes right?

And there is no reason to get defensive about your joke. It was well understood it was a joke, unless... that was also a placebo effect I had.


----------



## Caipirina

Got some new toys! 


 

And straight out of the box, I like them quite some! But that’s coming from the AS06, I have not really checked out anything in between...
I also tested them on balanced cable, before anyone laughs at the BT combo. It’s just really nice to also turn these into TWEs for long walks.


----------



## rambomhtri

Can anybody test the KZ ZS7 against the new ZeroAudio Carbo Douza II?

They are like the flagships from KZ and ZeroAudio. More or less.


----------



## jant71

Soooo, what's with the KB EAR version...





What does this do, what is the point if the CCA A10 is already out, cheaper , and the same set-up and specs. Talks of upgraded drivers and being better then other 5 BA earphones. Does that mean/include the A10??


----------



## voicemaster

rambomhtri said:


> Can anybody test the KZ ZS7 against the new ZeroAudio Carbo Douza II?
> 
> They are like the flagships from KZ and ZeroAudio. More or less.



Zero audio release duoza II?


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## shockdoc

Not to go TOO far off topic, but all the talk of different "sounds" from different cables reminds me of going to a presentation a number of years ago at a local audio shop. It was put on by the NHT speaker company. They basically set up their TOTL speakers at the time with some high-end McIntosh separate components and had two sets of speaker wire hooked up to the speakers with a switcher. One set of cables was some high-end Kimber cables (don't recall which ones but I remember thinking that they cost more than my Denon AVR. The other set was literally some lamp cord they'd bought at a local hardware store. They even offered a rather large cash prize to anyone who could correctly identify which cables were which 9 out of 10 times. A lot of "audiophiles" showed up. Some of them even had these little cardboard ear-extenders (for lack of a better term) to, I assume, aid them in hearing subtle differences in sounds or something. Long story short, NHT left with their reward check uncashed. YMMV ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## gourab1995 (Jun 19, 2019)

shockdoc said:


> Not to go TOO far off topic, but all the talk of different "sounds" from different cables reminds me of going to a presentation a number of years ago at a local audio shop. It was put on by the NHT speaker company. They basically set up their TOTL speakers at the time with some high-end McIntosh separate components and had two sets of speaker wire hooked up to the speakers with a switcher. One set of cables was some high-end Kimber cables (don't recall which ones but I remember thinking that they cost more than my Denon AVR. The other set was literally some lamp cord they'd bought at a local hardware store. They even offered a rather large cash prize to anyone who could correctly identify which cables were which 9 out of 10 times. A lot of "audiophiles" showed up. Some of them even had these little cardboard ear-extenders (for lack of a better term) to, I assume, aid them in hearing subtle differences in sounds or something. Long story short, NHT left with their reward check uncashed. YMMV ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Since you have mentioned a particular instance where people did not recognize the difference in sound in a cable change can make. Here is demo that does show a difference. In fact, you can hear it for yourself with earphones from the video. Disregard what the the guy is advertising even, to try it.



But then regardless of those 2 instances we have here, positive or negative. I know what I heard when I swapped cables using my ZS7, if you choose not to believe what I have experienced, its totally fine. No one had "influenced" me to hear the difference in sound between the cables. It was simple testing and observation across multiple trials, to take into account of any bias. (I.e. to perform the test with a healthy amount of self doubt). And the result is definite as well. I'm not going to revisit those cables again for the zs7, that's how sure I am, despite those cables being better in conductivity and what not.

And Iet's not abuse the word "audiophile" to represent some kind of person who is a genius in music, only wants ruler flat sound, cares about technicality so much that he confuses himself like a mad scientist. The word audiophile represents someone who has a fondness of audio and sound to a greater extent than normal, it's as simple as that. So yes "audiophiles" may or may not be able to distinguish between technical differences all the time, depending on their hearing capabilities and concentration power.

It's like saying someone is not an athlete because he doesn't rock climb as well as he lifts weight.


----------



## 1clearhead

New kid "DIY" on the block review!

I am trying a new DIY earphone, which I bought through taobao: *HIFI BCD micro-drivers*.

Link:
Post #24366

Enjoy!

-Clear


----------



## SoundChoice

jant71 said:


> Soooo, what's with the KB EAR version...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How dare you talk about earphones when there’s cable impedance going on.


----------



## gourab1995

SoundChoice said:


> How dare you talk about earphones when there’s cable impedance going on.


----------



## shockdoc

gourab1995 said:


> Since you have mentioned a particular instance where people did not recognize the difference in sound in a cable change can make. Here is demo that does show a difference. In fact, you can hear it for yourself with earphones from the video. Disregard what the the guy is advertising even, to try it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not trying to start a flame war or anything here. Just relating an experience I had. And I hope everyone realizes just how easy it can be to influence what someone hears even just with simple volume differences due to speaker/headphone sensitivity (let alone manipulating things via equalization). After the demo I mentioned they actually let all of us carefully inspect the setup to ensure that there was no subterfuge of any kind and that it wasn't rigged in some way and that it indeed was a simple A/B comparison of wire. And I didn't mean anything by putting the word "audiophiles" in quotation marks other than to poke a bit of fun at some of the guys who pulled out the little cardboard ear extenders while regaling the rest of us with their self-proclaimed expertise.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 19, 2019)

shockdoc said:


> Not trying to start a flame war or anything here. Just relating an experience I had. And I hope everyone realizes just how easy it can be to influence what someone hears even just with simple volume differences due to speaker/headphone sensitivity (let alone manipulating things via equalization). After the demo I mentioned they actually let all of us carefully inspect the setup to ensure that there was no subterfuge of any kind and that it wasn't rigged in some way and that it indeed was a simple A/B comparison of wire. And I didn't mean anything by putting the word "audiophiles" in quotation marks other than to poke a bit of fun at some of the guys who pulled out the little cardboard ear extenders while regaling the rest of us with their self-proclaimed expertise.



I respect your opinion but don't agree with it, consider this a discussion rather than a war. As far as the validity of the demo setups are concerned. We will have to only trust that the setup wasn't rigged. Can't be opening up insides of each component there and ensuring it wasn't something else right?

Taking this into regard. Apart from demos from 3rd parties surely you have some one on one experience with cable changes done by yourself. Would you say that matches clearly with the demo you had experienced? I.e. different cables don't make a significant difference in sound output?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

jant71 said:


> Soooo, what's with the KB EAR version...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They say KB10 make "Interpretation of the soul of sweet female voice", but do not say us the type of KZ treble BAs. This layout is confusing...




 I'll probably wait for as12


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## nicksson (Jun 19, 2019)

gourab1995 said:


> I  I.e. different cables don't make a significant difference in sound output?


With respect for your audiophile ears, I remain ferm about thinking that a 0,2 ohm difference in impedance between two cables, if all the rest components of the sound chain remains the same, well, the 0,2 ohm difference worth nothing in quality of the sound, especially if the sound generator iem or headphone have more than 20 ohm impedance. Placebo effect is due, maybe, to the fact that you know, for all the duration of the test, WHICH one of the cables is cheap and which one is expensive. The fact that you KNOW THIS can influence your opinion. The experiment about relates @shockdoc is much more concludent than the IsoTek try (38 min., damn long!). So, I believe that if a cable have an impedance of 0,2 ohm and other cable have 0,4 ohm, than the difference in sound will be surely inobservabile with audiophile or non audiophile ears. The difference remains in the domain of graphs...


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## PhonoPhi (Jun 19, 2019)

nicksson said:


> With respect for your audiophile ears, I remain ferm about thinking that a 0,2 ohm difference in impedance between two cables, if all the rest components of the sound rig remain the same, well, the 0,2 ohm difference worth nothing in quality of the sound, especially if the sound generator iem or headphone have more than 20 ohm impedance. Placebo effect is due, maybe, to the fact that you know, for all the duration of the test, WHICH one of the cables is cheap and which one is expensive. The fact that you KNOW THIS can influence your opinion. The experiment about relates @shockdoc is much more concludent than the IsoTek try (38 min., damn long!). So, I believe that if a cable have an impedance of 0,2 ohm and other cable have 0,4 ohm, than the difference in sound will be surely inobservabile with audiophile or non audiophile ears. The difference remains in the domain of graphs...


For 20 Ohm, the difference in sound (under 0.1 dB) won't be even measurable with most available "rigs", otherwise those graphs would be out there...
But how can one argue with one's feelings? I surely love my thick cables, makes me feel audiophilic 

P. S. I do "hear the difference" for the low-impedance KZ AS10. The original cable (about 0.8-0.9 Ohm) sounds better than upgrade cables to my ears with my source (the limitations of the source, I believe, is the key).


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## nicksson

xxAMAROKxx said:


> They say KB10 make "Interpretation of the soul of sweet female voice", but do not say us the type of KZ treble BAs. This layout is confusing...
> 
> I'll probably wait for as12


KZ, CCA, and now KBEAR? We must waiting for KGOAT, KSHEEP, KWOLF? 
Me too I'm curious about KZ AS12...


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## gourab1995 (Jun 19, 2019)

nicksson said:


> With respect for your audiophile ears, I remain ferm about thinking that a 0,2 ohm difference in impedance between two cables, if all the rest components of the sound rig remain the same, well, the 0,2 ohm difference worth nothing in quality of the sound, especially if the sound generator iem or headphone have more than 20 ohm impedance. Placebo effect is due, maybe, to the fact that you know, for all the duration of the test, WHICH one of the cables is cheap and which one is expensive. The fact that you KNOW THIS can influence your opinion. The experiment about relates @shockdoc is much more concludent that the IsoTek try (38 min., damn long!). So, I believe that if a cable have an impedance of 0,2 ohm and other cable have 0,4 ohm, than the difference in sound will be surely inobservabile with audiophile or non audiophile ears. The difference remains in the domain of graphs...


 
How are any of the 2 mentioned above more concludent. If anything there is equal chance that both are wrong. Which was the purpose of providing that video. If you have watched any of the video, the guy also mentions to the audience about making sure the setup is rigged or not just like shocdoc mentioned in his experience.

That's why I moved along stating to give your own experience first hand with changed cable in your own setup where you know how it sounds so that there is no chance for a bias or trickery.

And do read what placebo effect is before saying that it's a placebo effect taking place here. There isn't any doctor or engineer telling me to believe what I'm hearing. Before experimenting with different cables, it was my 'belief' that cable resistance won't make a difference, simply because that was the opinion I had forwarded from someone else's experience, because of a lack of better understanding of my own. But after listening to it first hand, it was very clear to me that they did make a difference, what and how much of a difference they can make. And you mention the more expensive cable can make an influence in my opinion. Then why am I back on the stock cable which is the cheapest out of the 3 cables I compared? Not saying that the other cables offer nothing better. Since what one might like in sound is subjective. Make sure to read the other person's text before making a counter argument.

Also fr graphs alone aren't any way to figure out technical differences in sound, which Is why I asked your retro future engineer to build that machine. Graphs only provide one dimension of sound. I.e how much (quantity) bass, mids and high frequency at what loudness the iem/speaker can output till what frequency, that's it, not the quality of it.

That is why you can have 2 different sounding iems with similar frequency response. Because of the difference their drivers and build materials make. Try Equ'ing one iem to the frequency response of the other and compare them. You'll see what I mean.

And if your time is that precious I would rather not have you trying to convince me based on certain an opinion you have just out of "ferm" belief, that might be technically feasible, you must have better things to do. It's easy to see specifications aren't everything. Things play out differently from a calculated standpoint in many different scenarios. Those are simply tools to ensure you have a minimum standard in the iem.

And my "audiophile ears" lol, can make out the difference in sound in my zs7 which has a rated impedance of 24ohms, when the cable is changed.

UnIess i had been bitten by a bat unknowingly and now have ultra sonic hearing abilities which would be an exception or maybe you hear as good as this guy... Either one.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

There is a Science section here for this stuff. Just sayin. This discussion has been going on way too long, and it would be like me trying to convince someone that 8 people, who were all hundreds of years old, didn't actually load a few hundred thousand animals into a boat in one weeks time, and then proceed to feed and clean said hundreds of thousands of animals over the course of a year, while the entire earth sat under 40,000 feet of water. 

Peeps just gonna believe what they want to believe. 

The most important topic here should be what are the fan club t-shirts going to look like?


----------



## archdawg

ZS 10 Pro (vs. ZS7) - Day 3

First of all I don't notice much of a change after those first ~48 hours of playtime and 'burn-in', at least nothing worth mentioning here. 

On to some more first impressions:

Bass: see yesterday, a bit on the slow side with relatively long decay (reggae anyone?) but usually well controlled and focused with amazingly little bleed on a more powerful low-impedance source, less so on my two different phones, but if the track demands it (EDM etc...) and the source can deliver the necessary power in time there's sh...loads in reserve just waiting for the right moment.

Mids: on many of my test tracks the mids are somewhat overshadowed not -bled by the dominant bass, it's not so much a matter of mud but sheer quantity - here and there I feel like reaching for an EQ to bring those lower frequencies somewhat down. On tracks with less bass the mids are just fine throughout the range, detailed enough, smooth and relaxed, with not much standing out, just nothing to write home about really. In most of my tracks they seem so laid back and distant (see below) that I feel disconnected from what's going on musically and lose interest in listening closer - YMMV.

Treble: less peaky than initially on the 7s but right from the start with a more natural timbre and a different frequency response, even though they're using the same drivers, maybe not from the same batch. Sibilance can be an issue but only with bad recorded or mastered material, the treble on the ZSN Pro or Tin T2 sounds more aggressive to my ears.
BTW, switching back and forth between the 10Pro and ZS7 my 7 sound distinctively more brighter - less bass dominance with more pronounced upper mids and lower treble.

Space: perceptually almost as wide as the ZS7 but with more extended depth (really deep into the distance) and less height. There's some air on the sides of the stage but the frontal share gets more or less absorbed in the depth.
Instrument separation and layering on the 10Pro goes hand in hand with their excellent spatial accuracy, everything stays well positioned, layered and separated even in crowded tracks; pretty amazing technically. To me this is the strongest point of those IEMs so far, especially their almost pinpoint precision - in that department they beat all of my other xy KZs hands down (unfortunately, lol).

So far so good - if after those first days I had to decide between the 10 Pro and the ZS7 - a personal thing - I'd pick my 7s without thinking twice - to my ears their addictive bass, allover punchiness and dynamics, cohesion, spaciousness, air and more intimate character, even at my standard low listening levels outweigh the spatial precision and slightly more natural timbre of the 10Pro but then I still have to look for a better cable for the 10s, at least for something less tangly.
Where the 10s lose me it's the perceived distance. Even though most of it sounds technically correct, like on the Tin T2 with their somewhat similar but less precise and extended rendition of depth that distance just isn't my cup of tea. Even close-up recordings sound somewhat dis-connected through the 10 Pros, more so than through the T2 - not really veiled in either case but I really miss the intimacy and perceptual transparency of my old, grey ZS6 and newer 7 deliver ... to me that's one of the first things I listen for on any IEM or can - YMMV.

So much for today - thanks for reading.


----------



## trumpethead

1clearhead said:


> Believe me, I'm trying to resist, too!



Resistance is Futile. I finally gave in and ordered a pair... Also salivating over CCA C16 at 80 bucks during the sale... Must fight urge to hit buy button!!


----------



## alex5908 (Jun 19, 2019)

Hello everybody,
As everybody might knows it's a mid-year sale at aliexpress.com now.
I wanted to buy KZ wireless ear-phones (not the cable). Does anybody use the earphones with LDAC/APT-X HD codecs? Which models can be recommended? Or may be other brands budget BT earphones with a Hi-Res sound?


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## alex5908

B9Scrambler said:


> Those QCYs


Which QCY are these?


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## B9Scrambler (Jun 19, 2019)

alex5908 said:


> Which QCY are these?



Not sure the model. The ones in the post I quoted. @eclein will have to answer that: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2986#post-14983959

Edit: Found these after a quick Amazon search. Looks like the same thing: https://www.amazon.ca/QCY-Headphone...?keywords=qcy&qid=1560954134&s=gateway&sr=8-5


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## alex5908

eclein said:


> These latest QCYs are wonderful,


What is the exact model of QCY?


----------



## eclein

Mine are: 2019 QCY T2C TWS BT5.0


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## Slater

alex5908 said:


> What is the exact model of QCY?



The photo and links are of the QCY T2C.


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## loomisjohnson (Jun 19, 2019)

*archdawg
 100+ Head-Fier *

*Joined: * Mar 18, 2019
*Location: *Gran Canaria
*Posts: * 184
*Likes: *392
ZS 10 Pro (vs. ZS7) - Day 3

very good impressions with which i wholly concur


----------



## Nimweth

archdawg said:


> ZS 10 Pro (vs. ZS7) - Day 3
> 
> First of all I don't notice much of a change after those first ~48 hours of playtime and 'burn-in', at least nothing worth mentioning here.
> 
> ...


I think the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 have different drivers. The ZS10 Pro has 2x50060 and 2x30095 in a three-way arrangement with the DD. The ZS7 has 2x29689 1x30095 and 1x31005 in a four- way arrangement with the DD. I have not heard the ZS10 Pro but I really like my ZS7!


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## alex5908

Slater said:


> The photo and links are of the QCY T2C.


Thanks.


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## LaughMoreDaily

The Ostry OS300 tips on the KZ ZS6 v2 sound great. I heard the JVC Spiral Dots only make the sound brighter and after taking them off, it seems true. Is this the best pairing for the ZS6? OS300 Ostry Tips?


----------



## Superluc

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The Ostry OS300 tips on the KZ ZS6 v2 sound great. I heard the JVC Spiral Dots only make the sound brighter and after taking them off, it seems true. Is this the best pairing for the ZS6? OS300 Ostry Tips?


Between the silicone tips ? Probably. Otherwise you can lower their treble with foams or selective EQ.


----------



## jant71

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The Ostry OS300 tips on the KZ ZS6 v2 sound great. I heard the JVC Spiral Dots only make the sound brighter and after taking them off, it seems true. Is this the best pairing for the ZS6? OS300 Ostry Tips?



You can take the filters out of the Ostry size you don't use and place them in others tips you might like as well. Though the wider bore may not hold them in w/o an O ring added and some shorter length tips may not work since they would stick out the front  but you do have some more versatility.


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## alex5908 (Jun 19, 2019)

Slater said:


> The photo and links are of the QCY T2C.


T2C does not support codecs I need. Any other options with ldac/apt-x hd?


----------



## Slater

alex5908 said:


> T2C does not support codecs I need. Any other options with ldac/apt-x hd?



I would ask here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 19, 2019)

jant71 said:


> You can take the filters out of the Ostry size you don't use and place them in others tips you might like as well. Though the wider bore may not hold them in w/o an O ring added and some shorter length tips may not work since they would stick out the front  but you do have some more versatility.


Using the screens on other earphones sounds complicated. If I like the OS300 tips (new to me)  I may just try them on other earphones other than the ZS6.

How much does the OS300 tips sound change without the screens?


----------



## SweetEars

1clearhead said:


> New kid "DIY" on the block review!
> 
> I am trying a new DIY earphone, which I bought through taobao: *HIFI BCD micro-drivers*.
> 
> ...


waiting for yr review.....


----------



## jant71

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Using the screens on other earphones sounds complicated. If I like the OS300 tips (new to me)  I may just try them on other earphones other than the ZS6.
> 
> How much does the OS300 tips sound change without the screens?



Not difficult unless you have trouble with small items. They are small plastic cylinders. Similar to the front screw on filters some earphones have but you have to push/pop them out of the tips which are just like other tips and pretty decent.


----------



## Brave Heart

I posted my first impression of my new KZ ZST elsewhere, but here we go:
The KZ ZST has just arrived.
Out of the box, the earpieces, though plastic, definitely do not look or feel like a sub-£20 product. They look like they cost at least £40.
The cable is slightly less impressive in appearance. It is braided and copper coloured, and has a chain-like appearance. It actually looks like a plug chain you would find in a bathroom sink. It also has no slider on the wire to keep tighten it and stop it from attempting to escape, which is slightly disappointing but at less than £20 it's a minor complaint I guess. The cable is also replaceable, which at this price point outweighs any quibble about there being no cable-slider.

Now, my first impression of the sound is that for the price it is rather impressive. There is space and separation, and good bass without being OTT.
Ladies and gentlemen, I think I may have found my new beater pair for the gym and exercise.
I have more expensive pairs of earphones from RHA which I am not willing to wear to the gym in case I break them, and I have cheaper pairs of various brands that I use for the gym but their suitability for the gym is questionable. These may well become my go-to pair.


----------



## archdawg

ZS10 Pro (vs. ZS7 &.T2) - Day 4

Spoiler: _please keep in mind that these are just some first, subjective impressions with these IEM and take them with a grain of salt or two. Above that some folks including myself have reasons to believe that (not only) KZ are using different batches of drivers every now and then without further notice - your individual KZs could sound quite different to the ones I have here._

Since I wasn't too happy with the perceived distances (depth) and the dominant bass I mentioned yesterday, I went through my collection of eartips again in order to balance things out some more. This time some shorter double flanges seemed to work somewhat better. 



 

The bass isn't that dominant anymore with the rest of the spectrum resulting more relaxed, slightly brighter and balanced and not at last the staged moved in a little closer, very obvious with close-mic vocals.
Now the first thing I did was to compare the 10 Pro to my Tin T2 again and well, if you turn down the lower frequencies of the 10P up to 200-250 Hz by some db and take care of some peaks they really don't need to hide behind the T2. On the contrary - when it comes to spatial reproduction (dimensional extensions, precision, separation, clarity, ...) the T2 have no chance to my ears, it's not even fair to compare them.

Regarding their sound character and signature to me the 10Pro sound more neutral or slightly warmer than the slightly cold T2 in the midrange (vocals) and as to the timbre of natural instruments their reproduction on the 10 suffer from a distinct resonant peak at about 4.5 kHz that seems to thin out the body of most instruments to some degree (but can easily be fixed by any parametric EQ). The T2 and ZS7 in contrast have their most disturbing peaks (to my ears) somewhat further up in the spectrum. My ZS7 e.g. has a very obvious resonant peak at about 7.9kHz, a bit more out of the way of the mids and I'd prefer them for anything with natural instruments with frequencies in or up to that part of the spectrum.

Vocals ... a lot depends on individual recordings but male as well as female vocals sound just fine to me (more natural than most instruments - see above). Male voices have enough body, female voices, depending of the main note often a bit less but both sound fuller and more neutral vs. the thinner, colder T2. Again, the 10P renders vocals a bit more distant than the ZS7 but beautifully clear if the recording has it down.

Bottom line for now:
After those first couple days these IEMs wouldn't be my first choice for anything based on natural instruments (classical music, jazz, folk, ...) even though a little EQing goes a long way here. Without EQ I do enjoy them with all sorts of electronic music but then my 7s even more ... can't help it. To me personally the ZS7 are better allrounders by some stretch even though the 10 Pro seem technically a step ahead, above all with their spatial precision and I'm sure that a lot of folks would enjoy their powerful bass quite a bit as well.
So for anyone not shy about using a decent enough parametric EQ, like the one in UAPP (Android) the 10 Pro offer some decent technical bang for less than 30€ IMO but for about the same money you could get the ZS7 ... ∆2U - thanks for reading.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

I gave the zs10 Pro to a friend who listens to bass music and treble forward presentation (with some peaks) does not bother him so much. For me, 10 Pro are unbalanced because their heights are not so technically good to justify them. (AS16 for example are.)


----------



## Brave Heart

Brave Heart said:


> I posted my first impression of my new KZ ZST elsewhere, but here we go:
> The KZ ZST has just arrived.
> Out of the box, the earpieces, though plastic, definitely do not look or feel like a sub-£20 product. They look like they cost at least £40.
> The cable is slightly less impressive in appearance. It is braided and copper coloured, and has a chain-like appearance. It actually looks like a plug chain you would find in a bathroom sink. It also has no slider on the wire to keep tighten it and stop it from attempting to escape, which is slightly disappointing but at less than £20 it's a minor complaint I guess. The cable is also replaceable, which at this price point outweighs any quibble about there being no cable-slider.
> ...


OK, so I've been listening to music with this pair of earphones quite alot today.
The included tips weren't the greatest, so I've swapped them out for the tips that came with the Final E3000 for increased comfort and a better seal.
Today I've been listening mainly to Joy Division and Billie Eilish, and for the price I haven't found much to complain about. The sound signature is pleasant to listen to without causing any fatigue. I have went through a few "bang for buck" earphones in my time such as the CX300-II and Soundmagic PL30 (and I loved those particular earphones during their time of use), and IMO the KZ ZST sound better than those. If I didn't already own more expensive premium earphones, I would probably be able to live with these as my main set.
On a tight budget or looking for a beater pair? These are worth considering.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 20, 2019)

What are your guys thoughts on the "lazy" way KZ builds iems?

Same eartips, same cables... Now with the ZSN body, the same body for a lot of newer models.

The reason I ask is because I'm using the Ostry OS300 eartips on the ZS6 v2 and without them it would just be another iem... but with them it sounds incredible.

Who is Ostry? How can they create better tips for KZ's than KZ itself?

Should smaller companies be created to  solely create eartips and cables for KZ's to make their iems better?

Just a question, I dont particularly hate their cables like some others do.


----------



## courierdriver

Assimilator702 said:


> Have you tried the brother of the ZS10 PRO? CCA C10? They make very nice companions to each other. Kind of like an HD600 and HD650.


No, I have not. I have seen many reviews though, on the C10. I'm curious about it, but I think I'd like to try the ZS7 first. I get your reference to the Sennheiser over ears in terms of differences, but I'm moving away from full size cans and find myself gravitating more to iems. Tbh, I like the Massdrop HD58X more than the 600's or the 6xx/650. To me though, none of these are my ideal sound signature though.


----------



## courierdriver

BadReligionPunk said:


> There is a Science section here for this stuff. Just sayin. This discussion has been going on way too long, and it would be like me trying to convince someone that 8 people, who were all hundreds of years old, didn't actually load a few hundred thousand animals into a boat in one weeks time, and then proceed to feed and clean said hundreds of thousands of animals over the course of a year, while the entire earth sat under 40,000 feet of water.
> 
> Peeps just gonna believe what they want to believe.
> 
> The most important topic here should be what are the fan club t-shirts going to look like?


Haha, yeah...couldn't have said it better myself. Really, all the measurement stuff dont mean squat. Just trust your ears. What makes you happy and makes you enjoy your music, is all that counts.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What are your guys thoughts on the "lazy" way KZ builds iems?
> 
> Same eartips, same cables... Now with the ZSN body, the same body for a lot of newer models.
> 
> ...


I also don't hate the stock cable on my ZS10 PRO. It is a bit thin tho, doesn't have a chin slider, and tangles easily. Sound wise tho, it worked well enough. As for tips, I think that these are the biggest variable, no matter what brand of iem you choose. Tips can transform the sound of everything from $15 KZ's to multi thousand $ iems from TOTL . There is no TOTL eartips. Everything from shape, bore size, materials used, etc can have an effect on the sound. The tips are the end pieces that get the closest or farthest from your eardrums. The way they seat your iems in your ear, the way they isolate or open up the soundstage, comfort, etc, all have a huge impact on how an iem will sound. I think they have the biggest effect on perceived SQ. Playing around with tips is, IMHO, the same as positioning speakers in a room, in a traditional 2 channel home audio setup. Just instead of dealing with room size, room nodes, toe in vs straight ahead, acoustic room treatments, etc...the tips do all of those things. It's just a matter of finding the ones that suit your tastes the best. It's a whole lot less expensive tho, than trying to dial in a speaker based setup. For about $50 bucks (or less, with careful shopping), you can amass a huge selection of tips that will get you good results on a huge variety of iems. You can easily spend 10 times that amount or more on room treatments or other things, and not obtain the same effect with a speaker based setup. Even good headphones require a pad mod to get the best out of them. I can forgive KZ for not giving the best tips or cables for the price they sell their iem's for. They do a pretty decent job at making their earphones sound good out of the box and offer great value for the price.


----------



## Zerohour88

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What are your guys thoughts on the "lazy" way KZ builds iems?
> 
> Same eartips, same cables... Now with the ZSN body, the same body for a lot of newer models.
> 
> ...



what are you on about? lots of aftermarket tips maker that makes better tips for even TOTL IEMs. Andromeda sounds really good on the AET08 tips, for example. Or even the JVC Spiral Dots. Heck, some TOTL IEM makes include Spinfits or Comply in their box kit. Are you gonna call them "lazy" for not making the "best" tips for their own IEMs? 

Fact is, ears are different, not even the biggest companies can account for the variation, not to mention preference (how the tips will affect sound).


----------



## 1clearhead

SweetEars said:


> waiting for yr review.....


Link:
Post #24366

Click on the link above.


----------



## raccoon city

raccoon city said:


> I ordered Version B for my KZ ES4.


I received this KZ cable today.
(https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981135983.html)
It fits the ES4, I love the color, and I like how the cable near the ear remembers its shape.
I'm not sure if the cable makes the IEM sound better, but I like it so far.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Its headfi/matrix. The spoon isn't real. Its mostly subjective.


raccoon city said:


> I received this KZ cable today.
> (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981135983.html)
> It fits the ES4, I love the color, and I like how the cable near the ear remembers its shape.
> I'm not sure if the cable makes the IEM sound better, but I like it so far.


That's are really nice cable and for $3? Its actually a pretty low resistance cable. Much lower then the stock cable.


----------



## SweetEars

raccoon city said:


> I received this KZ cable today.
> (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981135983.html)
> It fits the ES4, I love the color, and I like how the cable near the ear remembers its shape.
> I'm not sure if the cable makes the IEM sound better, but I like it so far.


i am using the similar cable from the revonext qt5 on the cca c10, it does make the sound a bit more coherent


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Yeah, china "silver", "gold" or mixed calbes make sound more coherent and concentrated. But pure copper make it clearer with instruments better separated.


----------



## bhazard

I'm about an hour into the ZS10 Pro and I like them. They really aren't too far off from the C16, but the C16 does sound a bit better. Using a "16 core" cable on both. It's a no brainer for ~$30. Definitely the best KZ as of now, as I don't need the AS16.


----------



## Caipirina

1clearhead said:


> New kid "DIY" on the block review!
> 
> I am trying a new DIY earphone, which I bought through taobao: *HIFI BCD micro-drivers*.
> 
> ...



In my ears right now! And so far, woah, nice .. and not even burnt in .. but there is quite some microphony coming from the cables, so don't move  ... 
I love when I can shove them in like earplugs. 

 

Playing my new reference track very nicely (listen for that bassy 'oooomp' ) 



(need to read up on how to properly insert YT links here)


----------



## hakuzen

added the last iteration of 16 cores budget nicehck cables to my lists.
improved resistance (lower) respect last iteration: it's the most conductive cable below $10 atm. i also like the new splitter. tested sound, pretty decent for its price.

*064*. hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown,M): 193..208..168..202..[22.6g]
outer diameter: 3.6mm. total length: 124cm (39cm from splitter).
last iteration of budget nicehck cables. best conductivity and build quality in the cheapest segment (<$10).
2pins version uses flush plugs, like previous iteration, good for flush sockets (like in most KZs), even for protruding sockets.
new jack, it doesn't seem to be easily repairable, but like its shape, beveled to provide more grip.
strain relief is a bit rigid.
i much like the new splitter, small and elegant.
very soft and flexible. sound is decent (good for the price). great value.


----------



## bhazard

hakuzen said:


> added the last iteration of 16 cores budget nicehck cables to my lists.
> improved resistance (lower) respect last iteration: it's the most conductive cable below $10 atm. i also like the new splitter. tested sound, pretty decent for its price.
> 
> *064*. hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown,M): 193..208..168..202..[22.6g]
> ...


I have this exact cable. It's great. The price is right to get a balanced and unbalanced one.


----------



## eclein

bhazard said:


> I have this exact cable. It's great. The price is right to get a balanced and unbalanced one.



+1 great deal!


----------



## bhazard

I'm happier with the ZS10 Pro and CCA C16 than I've been with quite a few $200+ iems now. I'm done with LZ as both my A4 and A5 have driver issues.

The sound quality is better on the ZS10 Pro and CCA C16 than the Sony XM3. I prefer listening to both over the Sony during my commute despite the noise cancelling.

Things just keep getting better and better under $100.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

hakuzen said:


> added the last iteration of 16 cores budget nicehck cables to my lists.
> improved resistance (lower) respect last iteration: it's the most conductive cable below $10 atm. i also like the new splitter. tested sound, pretty decent for its price.
> 
> *064*. hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown,M): 193..208..168..202..[22.6g]
> ...


Don't have this one. I have 062 with the carbon fiber tip. They are basically the Same-ish resistance wise. Is there any noticeable sound difference in your opinion?


----------



## hakuzen (Jun 21, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Don't have this one. I have 062 with the carbon fiber tip. They are basically the Same-ish resistance wise. Is there any noticeable sound difference in your opinion?


(064) hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown,M)......................................193..208..168..202..[22.6]
(062) hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt,M)................................*402*/235..259/243..239/250..244/246..[22.5]
you can see that 064, new, has better conductivity.
not noticeable sound difference, though. no need to stock both if you only need one.
but if i needed to get one, i'd go for 064


----------



## BadReligionPunk

hakuzen said:


> (064) hck ct4 ofc 16c (brown,M)......................................193..208..168..202..[22.6]
> (062) hck ct2 ofc 16c (brown,furt,M)................................*402*/235..259/243..239/250..244/246..[22.5]
> you can see that 064, new, has better conductivity.
> not noticeable sound difference, though. no need to stock both if you only need one.
> but if i needed to get one, i'd go for 064



Good. So cheapest one is the one people should buy.


----------



## hakuzen

BadReligionPunk said:


> Good. So cheapest one is the one people should buy.


if your budget is below $10, yesss


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 22, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> I think I'd like to try the ZS7 first. I get your reference to the Sennheiser over ears in terms of differences, but I'm moving away from full size cans and find myself gravitating more to iems.


Smart idea, switching to iems. The more people that damage their hearing listening to iems the better the technology for hearing aids will get.

And eventually iems will gain better sound and technology due to the newer investments in hearing aid technology. It's a win win situation.

Join us in damaging our hearing today with iems so the kids of tomorrow can have better sounding iems.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

bhazard said:


> I'm about an hour into the ZS10 Pro and I like them. They really aren't too far off from the C16, but the C16 does sound a bit better.


Just a bit better sound between both of them? Wow, who needs expensive iems anymore.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> what are you on about? lots of aftermarket tips maker that makes better tips for even TOTL IEMs. Andromeda sounds really good on the AET08 tips, for example. Or even the JVC Spiral Dots. Heck, some TOTL IEM makes include Spinfits or Comply in their box kit. Are you gonna call them "lazy" for not making the "best" tips for their own IEMs?
> 
> Fact is, ears are different, not even the biggest companies can account for the variation, not to mention preference (how the tips will affect sound).


I have no problem with how KZ does things right now. However I wonder why some people like BQEYZ's iems more yet their Headfi thread is barely touched?

I do think KZ should make better eartips and/or cables for their high end models. People are paying for it already so why not?


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 22, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have no problem with how KZ does things right now. However I wonder why some people like BQEYZ's iems more yet their Headfi thread is barely touched?
> 
> I do think KZ should make better eartips and/or cables for their high end models. People are paying for it already so why not?



I came to know kz for thier their near dirt cheap iems, like the ate, zs3 and zst. The only thing they would not compromise at that price was sound and specs to a reasonable extent. Now that they have raised the budget a little bit, we've come to expect a little more of them than they usually did (or do) in the accessories department.

To me its not a major complain but it definitely would be a plus, untill they keep making enjoyable, good sounding iems. Instead of trying to create a hype mass market.

I would say their cables have come a long way forward. Take a look at the zs3 cable today. And you will start appreciating what you have right now.

In the matter of tips, it is a very user specific element in the iem. I find it better to own separately (regardless of what comes in the box) certain types of tips (double flange, wide bore, deep fit etc.) and find a standard fit under each of those segments depending on the size and variation of ones own ear canal. And that's applicable to not just to kz in-ears.

Bqeyz needs to change their name. Or maybe they are using some kind of reverse psychology where the name of the brand is so unusual to remember that you will be forced to learn it through constant repetition.


----------



## Caipirina

Sometimes I am really wondering why I am bothering with all those multi DD and BA concoctions ... 

Today for the first time I tried the KZ ZS4 ... I knew the fit would be great, having loved the ZS3, one of my earliest KZ ...  and the ZS4 just managed to paint a huge smile on my face ... sometimes it's the simple things  

Yes, the bass can be perceived as bloated / bleeding .. but overall, those make me happy 

... back to speculations about the upcoming AS48 ...


----------



## paulwasabii

raccoon city said:


> I received this KZ cable today.
> (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981135983.html)
> It fits the ES4, I love the color, and I like how the cable near the ear remembers its shape.
> I'm not sure if the cable makes the IEM sound better, but I like it so far.





raccoon city said:


> I received this KZ cable today.
> (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981135983.html)
> It fits the ES4, I love the color, and I like how the cable near the ear remembers its shape.
> I'm not sure if the cable makes the IEM sound better, but I like it so far.



Yep, bought them too


----------



## TechnoidFR

I prepare comparison between kz as16 vs CCA c16 too. But I prefer c16 because they are slightly fun and less brilliant. 
The pressure problem is always here and need tips more thin to have more air in ear


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> No, I have not. I have seen many reviews though, on the C10. I'm curious about it, but I think I'd like to try the ZS7 first. I get your reference to the Sennheiser over ears in terms of differences, but I'm moving away from full size cans and find myself gravitating more to iems. Tbh, I like the Massdrop HD58X more than the 600's or the 6xx/650. To me though, none of these are my ideal sound signature though.


Good choice. ZS7 is my favourite KZ. Every time I listen to them it brings a smile to my face. Very entertaining sound.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Nimweth said:


> Good choice.* ZS7 is my favourite KZ*. Every time I listen to them it brings a smile to my face. Very entertaining sound.



Gotta admit, it's working it's way up there for me. Have them in right now actually. Really enjoyable listen, especially the treble which isn't as aggressive as other KZ hybrids. 

Been working on a mild update to the KZ megapost with the ZS7, ZS10 Pro, and other having been added. Just need to add the ZS3E, ZSE and update final recommendations, then it should be good to go. ZS7 replaces the original ZS10.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Nimweth said:


> Good choice. ZS7 is my favourite KZ. Every time I listen to them it brings a smile to my face. Very entertaining sound.



If you like zs7, you can see for **** topaz ( mp of you're interested )


----------



## TechnoidFR

B9Scrambler said:


> Gotta admit, it's working it's way up there for me. Have them in right now actually. Really enjoyable listen, especially the treble which isn't as aggressive as other KZ hybrids.
> 
> Been working on a mild update to the KZ megapost with the ZS7, ZS10 Pro, and other having been added. Just need to add the ZS3E, ZSE and update final recommendations, then it should be good to go. ZS7 replaces the original ZS10.



I don't like really zs10 pro... Too near of c10 with more brilliance and wider scene but bring artificial treble on some music..


----------



## DocHoliday

B9Scrambler said:


> Gotta admit, it's working it's way up there for me. Have them in right now actually. Really enjoyable listen, especially the treble which isn't as aggressive as other KZ hybrids.
> 
> Been working on a mild update to the KZ megapost with the ZS7, ZS10 Pro, and other having been added. Just need to add the ZS3E, ZSE and update final recommendations, then it should be good to go. ZS7 replaces the original ZS10.



What I'm looking forward to most of all is your feedback on the ZS3E; an "improved" ZS3 (better controlled upper-midrange and tighter bass?) with copper cables would make them irresistible and I'd  shamelessly order several sets in red and black.


----------



## B9Scrambler

DocHoliday said:


> What I'm looking forward to most of all is your feedback on the ZS3E; an "improved" ZS3 (better controlled upper-midrange and tighter bass?) with copper cables would make them irresistible and I'd  shamelessly order several sets in red and black.



I haven't listened to them in a while but from what I remember they came across as a mix of the ZS3 and ZS4. Massive bass, elevated treble but not as much as the ZS4. Don't recall if the bass was any tighter or upper midrange improved. Mine came with the silver plated copper cable KZ sells separately as an upgrade option. Have to get through the rest of my review queue before I dip back into these, but that shouldn't take too much longer.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Smart idea, switching to iems. The more people that damage their hearing listening to iems the better the technology for hearing aids will get.
> 
> And eventually iems will gain better sound and technology due to the newer investments in hearing aid technology. It's a win win situation.
> 
> Join us in damaging our hearing today with iems so the kids of tomorrow can have better sounding iems.


Yeah, but the truth is that hearing damage happens to many people even without listening to music loudly. I can tell you without a doubt, that having to drive a truck with zero insulation with a bunch of cargo slamming and bouncing and jostling about on an open highway with many potholes and uneven roads, hasn't helped preserve my hearing in 22+ years of employment as a truck driver. An industrial restaurant exhaust fan in a kitchen for 17 years on top of that, hasn't helped either. So, what I'm saying is: hearing damage isn't just related to the occasional blast of music on your iems. It happens over time, usually as a result of other factors, which are NOT as a result of "enjoyable" activities.


----------



## Slater (Jun 22, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, but the truth is that hearing damage happens to many people even without listening to music loudly. I can tell you without a doubt, that having to drive a truck with zero insulation with a bunch of cargo slamming and bouncing and jostling about on an open highway with many potholes and uneven roads, hasn't helped preserve my hearing in 22+ years of employment as a truck driver. An industrial restaurant exhaust fan in a kitchen for 17 years on top of that, hasn't helped either. So, what I'm saying is: hearing damage isn't just related to the occasional blast of music on your iems. It happens over time, usually as a result of other factors, which are NOT as a result of "enjoyable" activities.



I believe this. I’ve read that in the long term, hearing is actually _more_ damaged by noise that’s slightly elevated but a continuous duration, vs noise that’s really loud but only for a very short duration.

Your description of truck driving and commercial kitchen fans over the course of years and years makes sense, given the information I read.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I believe this. I’ve read that in the long term, hearing is actually _more_ damaged by noise that’s slightly elevated but a continuous duration, vs noise that’s really loud but only for a very short duration.
> 
> Your description of truck driving and commercial kitchen fans over the course of years and years makes sense, given the information I read.


It really is true. Sustained exposure to continuous high level noise (85+ DB) for several hours per day, WILL definitely erode your hearing. That's easy to achieve in many types of jobs and professions. It's important to consider the work environment that people subject themselves to on a daily basis. An office worker who spends 8 hours in a cubicle might not suffer as much hearing damage as someone who who works in a louder environment. It's VERY important to consider the environment in which you work in, and it's inherent health effects. You only have one set of ears and eyes...so do your best to protect them if you think they might be at risk in the job you perform each day.


----------



## Nailzs

Slater said:


> I believe this. I’ve read that in the long term, hearing is actually _more_ damaged by noise that’s slightly elevated but a continuous duration, vs noise that’s really loud but only for a very short duration.
> 
> Your description of truck driving and commercial kitchen fans over the course of years and years makes sense, given the information I read.



I doubt that having been exposed to loud noises is the real cause of hearing loss. There has to be more to it than that. I've worked as a machinist for over 40 years in a shop that also does metal fabrication.
I put up with banging on sheet metal, grinding, diesel engines running at high rpm and I don't seem to suffer any hearing degradation. My mother has been a housewife all her life and never exposed to loud industrial
noises yet she has sever hearing loss.


----------



## trumpethead

bhazard said:


> I'm about an hour into the ZS10 Pro and I like them. They really aren't too far off from the C16, but the C16 does sound a bit better. Using a "16 core" cable on both. It's a no brainer for ~$30. Definitely the best KZ as of now, as I don't need the AS16.[/Q
> 
> Thank You for saving me from C16 or AS16 purchase at least for the moment. I can hold on that "bit better" at least til maybe the next big thing comes along. I have way too many IEM that I don't have time for now...


----------



## archdawg

courierdriver said:


> It really is true. Sustained exposure to continuous high level noise (85+ DB) for several hours per day, WILL definitely erode your hearing. That's easy to achieve in many types of jobs and professions. It's important to consider the work environment that people subject themselves to on a daily basis. An office worker who spends 8 hours in a cubicle might not suffer as much hearing damage as someone who who works in a louder environment. It's VERY important to consider the environment in which you work in, and it's inherent health effects. You only have one set of ears and eyes...so do your best to protect them if you think they might be at risk in the job you perform each day.


Amen to that, bro. I've done more damage to my ears than I care to remember;  I guess the two worst factors have been my years as a DJ and listening to music through cans at ear piercing levels for many years. Anyway, won't complain too much, at 50 something I can still hear the hand of the alarm clock ticking in the next room (some younger friends can't) and me thinks I'm still pretty good at ABxing stuff but OTOH for me treble ends at about 11 kHz these days and I'm pretty serious about protecting what's left. Regarding ABxing I don't think that anyone can recover what's already been lost this way but seen as a form of training at least it helps me a lot to get the best out of what's left.


----------



## trumpethead

Thanks for saving me from C16 or AS16 purchase at least for now.. I can hold on that "bit better" til the "next big thing". comes along.. I have way too many IEM that I don't have time for already..


----------



## bhazard

The ZS10 Pro does suffer from some artificial sounding treble. Still, it sounds excellent for $30.

I forgot my headphones during one of my business trips a few months ago and had to buy something at the airport. I "lucked" upon cheap Panasonics for around $20, nevermind the cost of everything else they were trying to sell. It was still painful to listen to. Not having a KZ around is a good reminder of the value and SQ you get for the price.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Nailzs said:


> I doubt that having been exposed to loud noises is the real cause of hearing loss. There has to be more to it than that. I've worked as a machinist for over 40 years in a shop that also does metal fabrication.
> I put up with banging on sheet metal, grinding, diesel engines running at high rpm and I don't seem to suffer any hearing degradation. My mother has been a housewife all her life and never exposed to loud industrial
> noises yet she has sever hearing loss.


It sounds like you won the hearing lottery and your mom suffers hearing loss from her yelling husband.


----------



## courierdriver

Nailzs said:


> I doubt that having been exposed to loud noises is the real cause of hearing loss. There has to be more to it than that. I've worked as a machinist for over 40 years in a shop that also does metal fabrication.
> I put up with banging on sheet metal, grinding, diesel engines running at high rpm and I don't seem to suffer any hearing degradation. My mother has been a housewife all her life and never exposed to loud industrial
> noises yet she has sever hearing loss.





Nailzs said:


> I doubt that having been exposed to loud noises is the real cause of hearing loss. There has to be more to it than that. I've worked as a machinist for over 40 years in a shop that also does metal fabrication.
> I put up with banging on sheet metal, grinding, diesel engines running at high rpm and I don't seem to suffer any hearing degradation. My mother has been a housewife all her life and never exposed to loud industrial
> noises yet she has sever hearing loss.


I guess you have been lucky then, and your mom has not. I'm not saying that hearing loss is ONLY a result of loud workplace environments. Other factors (such as hereditary or something else) can play a role in it too. But there is definitely scientific proof, that over exposure to continuous loud sounds from working in a noisy environment for many hours/day, can result in hearing loss.


----------



## Light - Man

Sorry Guys, but anyone who has severe hearing loss, please take your ears over to the Sound Science threads. There seems to be an abundance of people over there who have hearing loss, so you will not feel alone, surrounded by people who can only hear music by visual means through graphs and procedural scrutinisation of blind on blind tests! 

I take offence by people referring to the KZ ZS10 Pro as good for $30 - when I paid £46 ($58)  

It is my first KZ and I reckon that it is a very good allrounder and is very good value, so much so that it might upset many who have paid crazy prices for high end stuff!


----------



## Makahl (Jun 24, 2019)

I got the ZS10 Pro yesterday and... I'm a bit late for the party but I'm really impressed! Coming from the basic lineup ATR/ZS3/ZS4/ZST the build quality here is a huge step-up. Awesome. When I was into DIY just to get that metallic nozzle was expansive as hell at that time and now you can get a whole thing that sounds GREAT for $30ish, wow.

Although, OOTB using the new stock tip I did find it quite spicy and a bit artificial at the treble, definitely not the best synergy to me but swapping it to the stock starlines M tips somehow it managed to tame that inconvenient extra energy to a moderate bright level that is more comfortable listening to me, I guess the starlines' material absorbs better some high frequencies than the new tip.

The sub-bass isn't an ear massage machine like the Kanas Pro which goes down to 20-40Hz effortless but on ZS10 Pro definitely, the bass is elevated and punchier when compared to KP which I really like it. Overall a more aggressive sound with a slightly more artificial timbre. But tbh I was kinda expecting it since BAs have this tendency depending on the music genre.

So, I've bought the ZS10 Pro to replace my old ZST which has an annoying driver-flex and I couldn't be happier with that upgrade for commute/gym.


----------



## Nailzs

courierdriver said:


> I guess you have been lucky then, and your mom has not. I'm not saying that hearing loss is ONLY a result of loud workplace environments. Other factors (such as hereditary or something else) can play a role in it too. But there is definitely scientific proof, that over exposure to continuous loud sounds from working in a noisy environment for many hours/day, can result in hearing loss.



Bone loss if a factor (this is my opinion not scientific fact) in getting older and considering the cochlea bone, as well as other bones in the ear, probably suffer loss from aging bone structure loss contributing to hearing loss.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jun 24, 2019)

Hello, I had a chance to compare zs10 and zs10 Pro directly. My source was Norma sr15, copper cables and KZ tips. This is my personal insights related to complex music:

Bass - better balancing on zs10 Pro. Quality is similar.
Mids - better on zs10 Pro
Treble - better balancing on zs10
Soundstage - deeper and more natural on zs10. zs10 Pro has wider and higher.

(zs10 plays better at higher volume, than at lower. Edit: I forgot to mention that the silver KZ cable greatly improve the zs10s sound.)


----------



## archdawg

ZS10 Pro - 7 days in

After about 150 hours playtime (burn-in) I notice some first effects on some peaks especially the one at ~4.5 kHz and from ~7 kHz upwards. Most natural instruments on my test tracks sound more natural and less 'thinned out" now.
One thing that still bothers me though is the range between ~1 and 2 kHz (~C6 - C7 for musicians). Especially pianos sound as if someone had put a sheet of metal on top of the strings, instant John Cage, lol. Other instruments have similar, pronounced issues with their timbre in that range as well, could be interference issues in the transition zone of two drivers. I've used some precision EQs in my DAW and narrow sine sweeps to listen in more closely and went through a number of excellent recordings on different sources again but as it seems those interferences are probably there to stay.
Anyway, as I posted before I do enjoy the 10 Pro with electronic music of all sorts; but for natural instruments I still grab something else - YMMV.


----------



## ostewart

AS10 review, very smooth, coherent and easy to like:
http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2019/06/review-kz-as10.html


----------



## kalo86

Slater said:


> I made up a little graphic to show the difference between the different types of KZ cables, since a lot of people are confused on this.
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to use the image when/where/how you want.



Hi, can you recommend a balanced cable for ZS10 pro with the 4.4mm ending? Thanks!


----------



## Nailzs

courierdriver said:


> I guess you have been lucky then, and your mom has not. I'm not saying that hearing loss is ONLY a result of loud workplace environments. Other factors (such as hereditary or something else) can play a role in it too. But there is definitely scientific proof, that over exposure to continuous loud sounds from working in a noisy environment for many hours/day, can result in hearing loss.


There is way around bone density loss. Vitamin K2 is quite effective at preventing bone density loss. Either natural or supplement form it's something everyone should know about, especially music lovers.


----------



## raccoon city

At my house, I'm the tech guy.
My mom needs a new IEM, so I ordered her a KZ ES4 because that's my favorite.
I'll report on if she likes it when it gets delivered.


----------



## Slater

kalo86 said:


> Hi, can you recommend a balanced cable for ZS10 pro with the 4.4mm ending? Thanks!



I don’t have any balanced/4.4 cables, so I’d recommend asking/checking here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/


----------



## Mouseman

Is the Type C cable the same as a QDC? I saw a bunch of those on Ali, but can't tell if they're equivalent. I didn't see anything in the thread or the magic Google machine.


----------



## nraymond

Mouseman said:


> Is the Type C cable the same as a QDC? I saw a bunch of those on Ali, but can't tell if they're equivalent. I didn't see anything in the thread or the magic Google machine.



I believe so. I recently came across this "KB EAR" (also "KBEAR") brand cable:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RZY5C8D/

The one customer review there had this to say:

"The true upgrade cable for the KZ ZSN /ZSN pro
Excellent construction over the alleged upgrade cable from KZ. Has the proper plugs for the IEM. Better weave than both the OEM original and upgrade. Significantly more copper used as well. Does a nice job smoothing the sound signature, making the presentation more natural. This is the minimum type cable KZ should be using!"

While the "for ZSN ZS10/ZSN Pro AS16" connector is only in stock in standard 3.5mm on Amazon, I went looking on AliExpress and the KBEAR Official Store has the QDC with the 2.5mm balanaced connector for $16 (but not 4.4mm for some reason):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33018785015.html

So that looks like it confirms that QDC = Paragraph Type C, i.e the connector used on the ZS10 Pro. If you want 4.4mm balanced connector, looks like the "AK KB EAR 16 Core Upgraded Pure Copper Cable 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Earphone Cable With MMCX/2Pin For KZ AS16 ZS10 ZSN PRO TRN X6 CCA F1", currently $26, has it as an option:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33039768500.html


----------



## Churchill Wu

With KZ, is it advised to order directly from the KZ official store on AliExpress or are other re-sellers on there fine as well?


----------



## raccoon city

Churchill Wu said:


> With KZ, is it advised to order directly from the KZ official store on AliExpress or are other re-sellers on there fine as well?


I order from any store with good feedback, but I am not an expert on KZ.


----------



## paulwasabii

Churchill Wu said:


> With KZ, is it advised to order directly from the KZ official store on AliExpress or are other re-sellers on there fine as well?



Other resellers are fine.  Recently there was an issue with the bluetooth cable and as old stock was being recalled and fixed cables were being rolling out, people were recommending buying that item direct from KZ store to ensure it was the fixed version.


----------



## randomnin

Nailzs said:


> There is way around bone density loss. Vitamin K2 is quite effective at preventing bone density loss. Either natural or supplement form it's something everyone should know about, especially music lovers.


I thought K2 is where you go to die if Everest is already all backed up and corpsy.
Stupid non-funnies aside, I doubt there's any research that directly covers bone density and hearing and K2. But what do I care, I like various milk stuffs so I'm covered either way.


----------



## Nailzs

randomnin said:


> I thought K2 is where you go to die if Everest is already all backed up and corpsy.
> Stupid non-funnies aside, I doubt there's any research that directly covers bone density and hearing and K2. But what do I care, I like various milk stuffs so I'm covered either way.


----------



## voicemaster

Nailzs said:


>




Lol I thought I was in the wrong forum. xD


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 26, 2019)

Nailzs said:


>




I'll stick to my vitamin Kz and bqeyz diet.


----------



## Light - Man

Man, I love this ever-so-slightly off-topic stuff!  

I have osteoporosis, mainly because of a lack of calcium as I do not drink any type of milk/dairy because of an intolerance but also because of the lack of vitamin D in my diet (in the past).

Our skin can also produce vitamin D but it needs to be exposed to sunlight on a regular basis (without suncream) to get a sufficient quantity to help us to absorb calcium in our diet.

A *DEXA scan *is the only way to find out if you have osteoporosis. There is also a genetic factor but a lack of weight bearing exercise is a big issue. Overweight people are less likely to get it. 

Maybe we should start a *health thread* because most of us seem to be more interested in head gear and might not be looking after our health as well as we should.  

Guys, I am still really liking the *KZ ZS10 Pro* but also have my eye on the  *KZ ZS7. *Is the *KZ ZS10* *Pro* still the the best allrounder from KZ and with the best vocals?

What other brands would you recommend as an upgrade to the* KZ ZS10 Pro?*


----------



## HungryPanda (Jun 26, 2019)

I actually prefer the BQEYZ iems to KZ (which I still love a lot). A true upgrade to ZS10 Pro is the iBasso IT01s to my ears


----------



## PhonoPhi

Light - Man said:


> Man, I love this ever-so-slightly off-topic stuff!
> 
> I have osteoporosis, mainly because of a lack of calcium as I do not drink any type of milk/dairy because of an intolerance but also because of the lack of vitamin D in my diet (in the past).
> 
> ...


All-BA CCA C16 and A10 work great for classical music to my ears (CCA is a sister/brother company of KZ).


----------



## moisespr123

The AS12 are now available: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33050179753.html


----------



## Aparker2005

Very interested to see how the 12 compares to the as16. Holding off on buying until I see reviews. Currently more than happy with my as16 and zs10 pro.


----------



## nraymond

moisespr123 said:


> The AS12 are now available: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33050179753.html



This made me smile: "2PIN Upgradable Cable, One Pluck And One Insert, Unlock More Funny Ways To Use"

Ok, who's going to start the "Funny Ways To Use Cables" thread?


----------



## shockdoc

moisespr123 said:


> The AS12 are now available: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33050179753.html



LOL Gotta love the Chinese descriptions..."Despise Boasting and Use Data to Prove Strength...", "Paranoid Pursuit of The Natural Broad Tone...".


----------



## nraymond

shockdoc said:


> LOL Gotta love the Chinese descriptions..."Despise Boasting and Use Data to Prove Strength...", "Paranoid Pursuit of The Natural Broad Tone...".



All Your Specifications Belong To Us, Mechanical Apparatus Translation FTW!


----------



## voicemaster

Thanks to google translate lol


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

moisespr123 said:


> The AS12 are now available: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33050179753.html


Wow, 2x 30012 BA for high frequencies ... have not heard them yet.
Oh, no gold faceplate for now ... why ?!?


----------



## zazaboy (Jun 26, 2019)

@HungryPanda do you have the ibasso it01... ? reviews say there is not much difference between ibasso it01s and ibasso it01? but I listened to a sound recording sample and ibasso it01s has very good detail retrieval imho what do you think?


----------



## HungryPanda

I do not have the it01 but I highly recommend the it01s if you can get a good fit. A lot of people don't but I found it ok once I put a keyboard spacer on the nozzle of each earpiece that stopped the tips sliding down too far.


----------



## jant71

moisespr123 said:


> The AS12 are now available: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33050179753.html



So, where is this gonna fit in?? Some say the 5 driver CCA is better than the AS16. Does this better the 5 per side or did they not exceed the AS16 on purpose?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 26, 2019)

Anyone know a good eartip/cable combo with the ES4?

So far I think the BA10 copper cable is the best and the Starline tips do not sound too bad.

What tips do you like? The ES4 seems to run bright.

I tried the 6 core copper ****, C10 cable  and 8 core upgrade KZ cable. In actuality the 8 core may be the best... maybe.


----------



## Assimilator702

Aparker2005 said:


> Very interested to see how the 12 compares to the as16. Holding off on buying until I see reviews. Currently more than happy with my as16 and zs10 pro.



I’m more interested to see how the AS12 compares to the CCA A10. While the C16 received better tuning than the AS16 the A10 is believed to be better than the C16.

Hopefully the treble is toned down over the A10 and the bass has even better presence with the two 22955 drivers. It’s at a nice price point @ $67. Hopefully it’s a it lower when other sellers get their hands on it.


----------



## Assimilator702 (Jun 26, 2019)

jant71 said:


> So, where is this gonna fit in?? Some say the 5 driver CCA is better than the AS16. Does this better the 5 per side or did they not exceed the AS16 on purpose?



Considering the AS16 is not tuned very well KZ has hopefully learned their lesson. With the A10 being super bright and using two 30095 treble units hopefully this one tones down the treble to SANE LEVELS. It uses different treble BA drivers the two 22955  BA units will hopefully provide a nice solid bottom end. According to the promotion literature the AS12 should be suited best for Pop music and vocal music secondary.


----------



## courierdriver

So, in February I managed to snag a set of KanasPro for a great price. In April, I bought a set of ZS10 PRO. After following these threads for a few months, I learned that tips can make a major difference in how the sound comes across with all iems. Earlier this month, I pulled the plug on 2 pairs of medium, and one set of large Spinfit C145. I also bought 2- 6 packs of New Bee tips, with 3 sets of silicone and 3 sets of foams. I already has a 6 pack of New Bee foams that I bought a couple of months ago for my KanasPro, and was enjoying them immensely with both the KPE and the ZS10 Pro. But based on all I have been reading, the Spinfits seemed like something I needed to try on both my sets. I haven't tried them yet on the KPE, but based on my experience with my ZS10 Pro,  they aren't cutting it for me. I likes my bass, and the Spinfits don't give me that enough. Also, there's a big lack of harmonic and tonal warmth, compared to the New Bee foams. Not a big fan of the Spinfits, so far. Yeah, they have detail, but there's a lack of natural sounding warmth and body to pretty much everything from bass to treble. The bass is the biggest letdown. The New Bee foams give me much better bass extension without sacrificing the mids and highs. They are also much more comfortable. I can listen to my iems for several hours on end with these foamies. I've tried Complys also, and I don't like them. They feel rough and uncomfortable after a while, but the Spinfits were much worse. I barely made it thru a half hour and they became itchy and I wanted to take them out. The New Bee silicones were much the same. So far, as far as seal, comfort, and listenability is concerned...the New Bee foams are still my favorite.


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> So, in February I managed to snag a set of KanasPro for a great price. In April, I bought a set of ZS10 PRO. After following these threads for a few months, I learned that tips can make a major difference in how the sound comes across with all iems. Earlier this month, I pulled the plug on 2 pairs of medium, and one set of large Spinfit C145. I also bought 2- 6 packs of New Bee tips, with 3 sets of silicone and 3 sets of foams. I already has a 6 pack of New Bee foams that I bought a couple of months ago for my KanasPro, and was enjoying them immensely with both the KPE and the ZS10 Pro. But based on all I have been reading, the Spinfits seemed like something I needed to try on both my sets. I haven't tried them yet on the KPE, but based on my experience with my ZS10 Pro,  they aren't cutting it for me. I likes my bass, and the Spinfits don't give me that enough. Also, there's a big lack of harmonic and tonal warmth, compared to the New Bee foams. Not a big fan of the Spinfits, so far. Yeah, they have detail, but there's a lack of natural sounding warmth and body to pretty much everything from bass to treble. The bass is the biggest letdown. The New Bee foams give me much better bass extension without sacrificing the mids and highs. They are also much more comfortable. I can listen to my iems for several hours on end with these foamies. I've tried Complys also, and I don't like them. They feel rough and uncomfortable after a while, but the Spinfits were much worse. I barely made it thru a half hour and they became itchy and I wanted to take them out. The New Bee silicones were much the same. So far, as far as seal, comfort, and listenability is concerned...the New Bee foams are still my favorite.



I love the KZ starline tips for my KZ (all of them). Before I wasn't too keen on them, but then I tried and now it is my favorite tips for almost all my IEMs. I loved the new bee foams, but sometimes when you store your IEMs in the case, the foam can get squished and break. With silicone tips, I don't have to worry about it breaking apart.


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> I love the KZ starline tips for my KZ (all of them). Before I wasn't too keen on them, but then I tried and now it is my favorite tips for almost all my IEMs. I loved the new bee foams, but sometimes when you store your IEMs in the case, the foam can get squished and break. With silicone tips, I don't have to worry about it breaking apart.


I haven't had that problem with the New Bee foams. My original set that are still on my KPE have been crammed into a Pelican 1040 case with the ISN Audio C16 copper cable, as well as my Fiio Q1MK2. Yes, occassionally they tips get a bit squished, but the foam rebounds after about 3-5 minutes, and they are good as new. I've tried the Starlines also, but they just don't give me the seal I like to give me the bass response I'm after. Every silicon I've tried so far just takes the bass away and makes the highs too bright for me. The Comply foams that I have kicking around gave the bass a huge boost, but made the mids and highs muddy and less detailed. For me, the New Bee foams are working the best so far.


----------



## khighly

I would like ZS7 lows, ZS10 Pro, ZSN Pro high end controlled sparkle, in AS12 shell, with AS10 isolation.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 27, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> I’m more interested to see how the AS12 compares to the CCA A10. While the C16 received better tuning than the AS16 the A10 is believed to be better than the C16.
> 
> Hopefully the treble is toned down over the A10 and the bass has even better presence with the two 22955 drivers. It’s at a nice price point @ $67. Hopefully it’s a it lower when other sellers get their hands on it.


I an enjoying A10 now - it is a great next step of evolution of BA10 & C16.
So it can be definitely said, in my opinion, that A10 takes a lot of good traits of C16 and being almost twice less expensive is the great value.
At the same time, C16 has an amazing resolution (those 8 BAs do their job).
What I admire KZ/CCA for - they seem to make their IEMs without those "marketing considerations" how the other models sell - they try to do their best and what works - sell well.

I hope AS12 is another nice step.

As for the highs - A10 has them nicely for me (again the nice next step from BA10 and C16).
For gentle highs and warm (yet resolving enough) sound - my favourite AS10 is the one!

If there is some interest, I can try to put together a comparison of all BAs from CCA and KZ.


----------



## moisespr123

I made a somewhat simple review for their new KZ aptX HD cable:


----------



## Podster

Esoteric/TOTL Not by a long shot (then again Big Dogs may be wasting a Sh1tload of money) In the Pods honest opinion these are easily better sounding iem's than 99.9% of the buying/listening populous owns 





@Light - Man , I also have the 7's and think the 10 Pro more refined overall but like the statement above both are better than most people even listen too WARNING: (If you own or spent more than a grand on any iem these statements don't apply to you)


----------



## rambomhtri

Does anybody know if KZ is gonna release any time soon the next generation of ZS7's?

By the way, ZS7 have slits or apertures with a metal mesh. I've noticed that if I cover them with my fingers, if there's no music playing, I can totally hear a difference in how much external sound I hear. Nevertheless, if there's music playing, I can't hear the slightest difference if I cover the slits or not. Why?

Oh, one thing that is really cool about the ZS7's is that they are like chambers, for example if I'm wearing them and talk, I can totally hear them vibrate and resonate, while with other headphone's/IEM's  I have never experienced that. I don't know what it means, but it's cool. Did anybody notice that as well? Like wearing a pair of cans that are sensible to vibrate due to external sources?


----------



## harry501501 (Jun 27, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> But based on all I have been reading, the Spinfits seemed like something I needed to try on both my sets. I haven't tried them yet on the KPE, but based on my experience with my ZS10 Pro,  they aren't cutting it for me. I likes my bass, and the Spinfits don't give me that enough. Also, there's a big lack of harmonic and tonal warmth, compared to the New Bee foams. Not a big fan of the Spinfits, so far. Yeah, they have detail, but there's a lack of natural sounding warmth and body to pretty much everything from bass to treble. The bass is the biggest letdown.



Had to try the Spinfits with the ZS10 Pro after that and must admit there's not much (if any) change in bass response between the custom tips they came with and the Spinfits. Bass still has the same depth and quality on SFs, with the sound opening up a wee bit and upper mids and treble slightly brighter. This has always been my experience with Spinfits though. They help take some warmth out of an overly smooth earphone and add a bit more air in to the top end. Not saying you're wrong btw. Tried Comply's with them and again they follow my normal experience of opening the sound up and smoothing over the treble... but losing out in some resolution.

Here's what I use... a set of tips i can't for the life of me remember what they came with lol. I've smaller ear cavity and these thinner longer silicons seem to work best for me.


----------



## Podster

harry501501 said:


> Had to try the Spinfits with the ZS10 Pro after that and must admit there's not much (if any) change in bass response between the custom tips they came with and the Spinfits. Bass still has the same depth and quality on SFs, with the sound opening up a wee bit and upper mids and treble slightly brighter. This has always been my experience with Spinfits though. They help take some warmth out of an overly smooth earphone and add a bit more air in to the top end. Not saying you're wrong btw. Tried Comply's with them and again they follow my normal experience of opening the sound up and smoothing over the treble... but losing out in some resolution.
> 
> Here's what I use... a set of tips i can't for the life of me remember what they came with lol. I've smaller ear cavity and these thinner longer silicons seem to work best for me.



I may have some of those tips stored away you are welcome to if I can find them I actually replaced the KZ cable and tips that came with the Pro 10's in favor of Auvio's and the Zither cable that came with my Secret Garden's


----------



## harry501501

Podster said:


> I may have some of those tips stored away you are welcome to if I can find them I actually replaced the KZ cable and tips that came with the Pro 10's in favor of Auvio's and the Zither cable that came with my Secret Garden's



lol, thanks Podster. They are an odd little pair. I'll try out some different cables tonight, cheers.


----------



## Slater (Jun 27, 2019)

rambomhtri said:


> Does anybody know if KZ is gonna release any time soon the next generation of ZS7's?



I doubt it, because the ZS7 was contracted by a 3rd party seller. It wasn’t an official KZ release. So I doubt you’ll see an official KZ release of a 2nd ZS7.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> I doubt it, because the ZS7 was contracted by a 3rd party seller. It wasn’t an official KZ release. So I doubt you’ll see an official KZ release of a 2nd ZS7.


ZS(8-1)Pro?


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> Esoteric/TOTL Not by a long shot (then again Big Dogs may be wasting a Sh1tload of money) In the Pods honest opinion these are easily better sounding iem's than 99.9% of the buying/listening populous owns
> 
> 
> 
> @Light - Man , I also have the 7's and think the 10 Pro more refined overall but like the statement above both are better than most people even listen too WARNING: (If you own or spent more than a grand on any iem these statements don't apply to you)


Yeah! For me, when I listen to the ZS10 PRO, it makes me wonder why I need to spend thousands on a TOTL iem, for a 20% improvement. TOTL iems have their place when it comes to bragging rights, but for me, value for money trumps that everytime.


----------



## rambomhtri

Slater said:


> I doubt it, because the ZS7 was contracted by a 3rd party seller. It wasn’t an official KZ release. So I doubt you’ll see an official KZ release of a 2nd ZS7.


Yes, I meant actually a ZS8 or something like that, not a ZS7 Pro or ZS7 v2. Basically, an improvement, somehow, over the ZS7. That's what I meant with next generation.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I listened to the KZ ATR today... time to get rid of them. 

Ps: You guys must buy the Ostry OS300 tips. Best silicones ever!


----------



## harpo1

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I listened to the KZ ATR today... time to get rid of them.
> 
> Ps: You guys must buy the Ostry OS300 tips. Best silicones ever!


I'm not a fan of those tips but as with anything audio one size doesn't fit all.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I listened to the KZ ATR today... time to get rid of them.



Keep them.  You will listen on another day and love them.  You always do


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> I doubt it, because the ZS7 was contracted by a 3rd party seller. It wasn’t an official KZ release. So I doubt you’ll see an official KZ release of a 2nd ZS7.


Let's hope that 3rd party contracts some more IEMs because for me the ZS7 is my favourite "KZ".


----------



## Assimilator702

harry501501 said:


> Had to try the Spinfits with the ZS10 Pro after that and must admit there's not much (if any) change in bass response between the custom tips they came with and the Spinfits. Bass still has the same depth and quality on SFs, with the sound opening up a wee bit and upper mids and treble slightly brighter. This has always been my experience with Spinfits though. They help take some warmth out of an overly smooth earphone and add a bit more air in to the top end. Not saying you're wrong btw. Tried Comply's with them and again they follow my normal experience of opening the sound up and smoothing over the treble... but losing out in some resolution.
> 
> Here's what I use... a set of tips i can't for the life of me remember what they came with lol. I've smaller ear cavity and these thinner longer silicons seem to work best for me.



They look like they could be TRN tips. I have Med size but not the small to compare. I actually ordered a set of TRN silicone Translucent grey/Red tips and was sent the TRN foam tips by mistake. From the looks the TRN foams could be the same as New Bee. They made my A10 listenable. Before even with the foam filters there was too much treble energy now with the red TRN foams I can actually sit back and enjoy my A10 with *selective* *music. * Nothing too dense and definitely well recorded and mastered.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 29, 2019)

After the vent mod and a lot of tip changing. I found the zs7 much better from the original config.

Been using it even more than the kb100 lately after the vent mod. Kb100 still being better at a smoother presentation with smaller stage but much more accurate imaging and naturalness. Holding its no. 1 for me.

The zs7's soundstage is just percieved more spacious (cos of that v shape) and sound is so detailed because of those ba's. Recently the nozzle just popped out suddenly. Chifi quality showing its age already. Noticed how the BAs are placed within the plastic enclosure they have near the dynamic driver. Nothing is near the nozzles unlike previous kz zs models. Was able to fit it back quite easily with some glue. That's what was holding it in place before they decided to pop out.

After the mods and cable swaps, an excellent iem. Stock. Not so much. Hope the zs8 will refine things with this 1dd+'X'ba driver config. Without having to mod the iems or swapping cable and tips. Coming from the original sound, where the stage was quite small, being overpowered by the bass pressure and the stock cable sounding the most coherent at the same time least resolving, because of its high resistance. Wheras more conductive cables like the jc ally make it too sharp/ sound odd. The kz silver cable was the middle ground for smooth sound while not losing the signal quality too much, only after i got a good combo with the tenmark wide bore tips. They do congest the bass a little, but its a doable compromise for better controlled bass and more open stage. After doing all that. I would even go to the extent of calling it balanced now.

Coming from total regret (before burn in) to cable swaps to mods. It has been quite the journey with the zs7. I don't think i can get more out of this amazing iem anymore. And i don't need anymore from it as well. It is an excellent iem for those who are willing to put up with the hustle of burn-in, modding, tip swapping and cable changing. Incredible stuff for around 40usd (incl. cables and tips)

TLDR; I Love the ZS7, They are an enjoyable fun sound!


----------



## Assimilator702 (Jul 26, 2019)

Anyone order the AS12 yet? It’s funny the AS12 were released on Wed and were only available on the KZ official store. Thursday it was the same deal. This morning CCA tweeted out they had the AS12 in their official store on AE. Now they’re available in 6 or 7 stores ranging from $52 to $90. I’ll probably wait until Sunday night this is very tempting after having the A10 and needing to know how they compare to each other.


----------



## Podster

Oh Jeez, guess I'll just let Slater tell you


----------



## mbwilson111

Let it go.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jun 28, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Keep them.  You will listen on another day and love them.  You always do


I think I just listened to them yesterday and didn't like them anymore. 

KZ's I am departing with: ATR, ATE-S, ZS3, ZST, ED7.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think I just listened to them yesterday and didn't like them anymore.
> 
> KZ's I am departing with: ATR, ATE-S, ZS3, ZST, ED7.



Where will they go?


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Where will they go?



The great beyond


----------



## Slater

gourab1995 said:


> After the vent mod and a lot of tip changing. I found the zs7 much better from the original config.
> 
> Been using it even more than the kb100 lately after the vent mod.



Remind me again on the vent mod you’re referring to? Did you tape it off with micropore or something?


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 28, 2019)

Slater said:


> Remind me again on the vent mod you’re referring to? Did you tape it off with micropore or something?



No it's as you last saw it. Quite big openings (1.5mm). I think 1 mm should be enough though. It would be good to cover it up with some micropore. The vent mod was quite the 'yolo' thing to do for me. I just don't know where to find that stuff here, also not really looking for it.. its working good as it is.

Also no more driver flex now, not at all.


----------



## Slater

gourab1995 said:


> No it's as you last saw it. Quite big openings (1.5mm). I think 1 mm should be enough though. It would be good to cover it up with some micropore. The vent mod was quite the 'yolo' thing to do for me. I just don't know where to find that stuff here, also not really looking for it.. its working good as it is.
> 
> Also no more driver flex now, not at all.



Ah, I remember now - you made the vent larger with sharp scissors. Gotcha.

Glad that worked out for you no flex, tuned the sound how you wanted, etc). I'm all for DIY mods to make our audio gear more to our individual liking


----------



## gbrgbr

Is the KZ connector (female) socket available for sale on AE? Type A or B. See pic :



 

I want to use the KZ Type-C DAC cable with a IEM that has MMCX (the ****). The only adapter I can find, at Penon, is 25 USD. That's too much, I want to make a adapter cable with a (male) MMCX connector at one end and a KZ female socket on the other. So I can just plug in the KZ DAC cable to the female socket.


----------



## courierdriver (Jun 29, 2019)

So, I started my Christmas shopping early today. Aliexpress sale got me a ZS10 PRO, JCALLY 8-core cable, and I already have a spare set of New Bee tips to throw in. My Secret Santa gift is gonna be off the hook this year!  Edit: I also picked up something for myself, since I've been such a good boy! LOL!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> Where will they go?


Co-workers or homeless people.

KZ's I am departing with: ATR, ATE-S, ZS3, ZST, ED7.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jun 29, 2019)

Slater said:


> Ah, I remember now - you made the vent larger with sharp scissors. Gotcha.
> 
> Glad that worked out for you no flex, tuned the sound how you wanted, etc). I'm all for DIY mods to make our audio gear more to our individual liking



In India we have a term for such janky modifications/innovations called 'jugaad' (pronounced juu-gaar). This picture below describes best what happened with the zs7 with my 'jugaad'.



Not much of a looker, but hey you're comfy now...


----------



## mikp

moisespr123 said:


> I made a somewhat simple review for their new KZ aptX HD cable:





Got my cable, and it is correctly labeled. Also has the stamp inside the lid. No surprise with the quality control though.
They seem a little long, but I felt the previous version was a little short with the controls danglin next to the ear.


----------



## Slater

gourab1995 said:


> In India we have a term for such janky modifications/innovations called 'jugaad' (pronounced juu-gaar). This picture below describes best what happened with the zs7 with my 'jugaad'.
> 
> 
> 
> Not much of a looker, but hey you're comfy now...



In the US there’s a similar term that means the same thing: jerry-rigged (or jury-rigged).

That bicycle is most definitely jerry-rigged lol

https://www.dictionary.com/e/jury-rigged-vs-jerry-rigged/


----------



## Mouseman

nraymond said:


> I believe so. I recently came across this "KB EAR" (also "KBEAR") brand cable:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RZY5C8D/
> 
> ...


I know this was a bunch of pages back, but I just found out (luckily not with my wallet) that QDC cables aren't the same as KZ. They have reversed polarity and are different than other 2 pin cables.


----------



## nraymond

Mouseman said:


> I know this was a bunch of pages back, but I just found out (luckily not with my wallet) that QDC cables aren't the same as KZ. They have reversed polarity and are different than other 2 pin cables.



If the findings here still hold, there isn't always consistency in headphone polarity:

https://www.siber-sonic.com/broadcast/polarity.html

If I understand correctly, polarity only matters when doing DJ or live production work, correct?


----------



## HungryPanda

It is rather important in electrical work too


----------



## GoLDii3

Hi,i had a pair of ZS10 recently fail. One or more drivers died in the right earbud suddenly. Im kinda pissed since they werent even 1 year old,but i did use them a lot. Is this common? I know they are cheap but still,i dont like throwing money away.

Anyways they sounded good so of course im already looking for a new pair,since my ES3's are too aggressive with treble. Im kinda adamant to buy a new pair since i know harsh treble is like a KZ trademark. I was thinking about getting a pair of ZS10 Pro's , how is the treble on that model? What other models have treble like the ZS10?


----------



## Caipirina

moisespr123 said:


> The AS12 are now available: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33050179753.html



Must.NOT.Buy.yet.another.KZ.IEM !!!  help!


----------



## Slater

GoLDii3 said:


> Hi,i had a pair of ZS10 recently fail. One or more drivers died in the right earbud suddenly. Im kinda pissed since they werent even 1 year old,but i did use them a lot. Is this common? I know they are cheap but still,i dont like throwing money away.



They usually don’t just ‘die’. If they get dropped on the ground or knocked on a hard surface, then that can definitely kill any earphone. So can burning them in at too high of a volume, running them through the washing machine, heavy sweat from working out, etc.

Any of that a possibility?


----------



## GoLDii3

Slater said:


> They usually don’t just ‘die’. If they get dropped on the ground or knocked on a hard surface, then that can definitely kill any earphone. So can burning them in at too high of a volume, running them through the washing machine, heavy sweat from working out, etc.
> 
> Any of that a possibility?


A few days ago it stopped working correctly,audio would cut out everytime i touched the shell but sometimes it would work correctly. Then yesterday the drivers died for good 

I actually found out that it if i banged it a few times against my wood desk it would start working correctly,until i touched the shell. It was truly infuriating,even smiling or frowning would make the faulty drivers stop working.


----------



## Slater (Jun 30, 2019)

GoLDii3 said:


> A few days ago it stopped working correctly,audio would cut out everytime i touched the shell but sometimes it would work correctly. Then yesterday the drivers died for good
> 
> I actually found out that it if i banged it a few times against my wood desk it would start working correctly,until i touched the shell. It was truly infuriating,even smiling or frowning would make the faulty drivers stop working.



I assume you tried a different cable first, before banging away at the IEM on your desk?


----------



## Mybutthurts

GoLDii3 said:


> Hi,i had a pair of ZS10 recently fail. One or more drivers died in the right earbud suddenly. Im kinda pissed since they werent even 1 year old,but i did use them a lot. Is this common? I know they are cheap but still,i dont like throwing money away.
> 
> Anyways they sounded good so of course im already looking for a new pair,since my ES3's are too aggressive with treble. Im kinda adamant to buy a new pair since i know harsh treble is like a KZ trademark. I was thinking about getting a pair of ZS10 Pro's , how is the treble on that model? What other models have treble like the ZS10?



You find that Pro version of the ZS10 is a quite a different beast from the ZS10.
The sound is a little more forward with the Pro, musical still though. Treble is there but not too aggressive.
The AS10 is (IMHO) nearer to the original ZS10 than the Pro, both are very good though.


----------



## GoLDii3

Slater said:


> I assume you tried a different cable first, before banging away at the IEM on your desk?


Yeah i tried the stock cable and when it didnt work i did this






Did you ever have a pair with failed drivers?

Anyways im in the look for a new KZ IEM 

Which one would you advice me to buy if i dont like harsh treble and listen to a lot of EDM


----------



## Slater (Jun 30, 2019)

GoLDii3 said:


> Yeah i tried the stock cable and when it didnt work i did this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only pair of earphones I’ve ever have fail (after a period of time not DOA) in my life was a KZ ZS3. There was a widespread defective batch from Gearbest. Once I discovered the pattern, I created a running list of everyone who also had a failure from the same batch. That helped KZ and Gearbest verify the problem, and everyone affected got refunds.

Other than that, I guess I’ve been lucky because I’ve never had any just “go bad” due to drivers dying (cables yes, drivers no). Maybe I’m lucky, but I feel it had a lot to do with me always storing my earphones in cases when not in use, being careful never to bang them around or drop them on hard surfaces, etc.

I have damaged/killed drivers by overheating them with a soldering iron though, but that doesn’t really count since it was my own fault.

Sadly, I’m willing to bet that the issue with yours was nothing more than a simple loose wire (on the circuit board or the 2-pin socket), that could have easily been repaired. Because on multi-driver earphones, usually 1 driver goes bad (removing all treble or all bass). The fact that everything on that side went totally dead tells me the problem was with the primary wiring and not the drivers. Oh well, it’s too late now.

As far as a replacement, my favorite KZs are the ZS7 and ZS10 Pro. Either one is excellent for EDM, which is what I listen to. There’s honestly a number of KZs that are good for EDM (depending on your budget and particular tastes): ED9, EDR1, ZS1 v1, ZS4, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZSR, etc.


----------



## courierdriver

GoLDii3 said:


> Hi,i had a pair of ZS10 recently fail. One or more drivers died in the right earbud suddenly. Im kinda pissed since they werent even 1 year old,but i did use them a lot. Is this common? I know they are cheap but still,i dont like throwing money away.
> 
> Anyways they sounded good so of course im already looking for a new pair,since my ES3's are too aggressive with treble. Im kinda adamant to buy a new pair since i know harsh treble is like a KZ trademark. I was thinking about getting a pair of ZS10 Pro's , how is the treble on that model? What other models have treble like the ZS10?


I have the ZS10 PRO, and love them! These are sooo freaking good! Listening to them now as I write this. For the past 2 hours, I've been listening to a bunch of Reggae. Just switched to Boston (rock music) and I'm so immersed in the sound. This set is crazy good for the $$.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

gourab1995 said:


> After the vent mod and a lot of tip changing. I found the zs7 much better from the original config.
> 
> Been using it even more than the kb100 lately after the ZS7 vent mod.
> 
> After the mods and cable swaps, an excellent iem. Stock. Not so much. Without having to mod the iems or swapping cable and tips. Coming from the original sound, where the stage was quite small, being overpowered by the bass pressure and the stock cable sounding the most coherent at the same time least resolving, because of its high resistance. The kz silver cable was the middle ground for smooth sound while not losing the signal quality too much, only after i got a good combo with the tenmark wide bore tips.


Is there an instruction post about this ZS7 vent mod?

I tried your Tennmak tips and KZ  8 core silver cable idea with my ZS7 and the cable falls off the iems. The iems also fall out of my ears. Maybe you are using a different silver cable?


----------



## GoLDii3

My silver cable is turning green


----------



## gourab1995 (Jul 1, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is there an instruction post about this ZS7 vent mod?
> 
> I tried your Tennmak tips and KZ  8 core silver cable idea with my ZS7 and the cable falls off the iems. The iems also fall out of my ears. Maybe you are using a different silver cable?



Theres no such instructions post. But what i did can be plainly described methodically as:

Step 1
Grab iems, remove cable.

Step 2
Find something sharp and thin like a sewing scissors.

Step 3
Insert the sharp side facing outwards inside the tiny front vent and rotate it at an angle so the chips curl outwards, making sure the hole isn't too large (i made it 1.5mm big, 1mm or less should affect the sound already) Don't be scared to stab your iem at this point if necessary.

Step 4
Listen to iems as the hole gets bigger, you will lose bass pressure with the hole getting bigger. You want to repeatedly listen as you keep drilling.

Step 5
Use a paintbrush, toothbrush etc. To clean off the surface and any other scraps.

All to be done at your own risk and understanding. You may scratch off the black paint as a side effect doing the above.

Here is a pic for reference.



Effects of the mod can be reversed with a solid tape, translucent material tape over the vent.

Again only do it if you are as desperate as this guy






Im using the silver only kz cable (8 core) which tends to oxidize easily. Mine is already green. Picture for reference below.



If you have successfully done all the above, you should have a clearer soundstage, much less fatiguing bass. Balanced tonality overall. Slightly better imaging because of the bass not being so intrusive, making the treble pop out a little more. Mids stay the same. Driver flex gone. In one word it's just better.


----------



## Slater

gourab1995 said:


> I'm not using any 8 core cable. Im using the silver only kz cable (4 core) which tends to oxidize easily. Mine is already green. Picture for reference below.



Friend, that’s an 8-core cable


----------



## GoLDii3

Slater said:


> The fact that everything on that side went totally dead tells me the problem was with the primary wiring and not the drivers.


Thats the thing though,not all drivers are dead,i still can hear sound coming. Not as loud as before,so do you think i could bypass the dead drivers and output full volume to the remaining drivers?


----------



## Slater

GoLDii3 said:


> Thats the thing though,not all drivers are dead,i still can hear sound coming. Not as loud as before,so do you think i could bypass the dead drivers and output full volume to the remaining drivers?



The sound tuning would never match. You'd also have to do something about the crossover circuit. It's just not worth it for, what, a $30 IEM?


----------



## TheVortex

I have two pairs of the above 8 core silver KZ cable and the one I have not used as it is still in it's packaging is still in immaculate condition and the one I have used is a bit green lol.

I also bought them both at the same time but it doesn't affect the sound quality so no big deal really.


----------



## mbwilson111

TheVortex said:


> I have two pairs of the above 8 core silver KZ cable and the one I have not used as it is still in it's packaging is still in immaculate condition and the one I have used is a bit green lol.
> 
> I also bought them both at the same time but it doesn't affect the sound quality so no big deal really.



Aesthetics do matter to me.  I am glad I mostly stuck with black cables.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jul 2, 2019)

Hello folks,
I bought a new zs10 (blue one looks better with a silver cable) and find out, that there are two visible differences compared to the old one.
- *different look of bass driver*
- *different placement of ba drivers and two of them are placed closer to the nozzle.
*










There can be more differences, this is my quick comparrison against web photos - I don't have the old zs10 for couple of weeks...
And I have a feeling, that the new one sounds more balanced. Treble peak is in a better place and the bass is better quality.


----------



## nxnje

Here's my review of the CCA A10, which includes a direct comparison with the KZ AS06.

https://yourstingyfriend.altervista.org/?p=553


----------



## TheVortex

mbwilson111 said:


> Aesthetics do matter to me.  I am glad I mostly stuck with black cables.



I agree about the aesthetics. I am using the newer silver KZ cables with my CCA C10 and ZS10 Pro. My green cable is in the drawer as a backup.

They are perfectly silver at the moment. They are not bad cables and fairly supple.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jul 1, 2019)

Slater said:


> Friend, that’s an 8-core cable



Doesn't that have 2 sets of wire running down each side? If it is so. Go by the picture. The braid must have confused me.

Update: Yup just verified it. They are 8 core. Thanks for correcting me on that detail. Changed in previous post.


----------



## GoLDii3

I wish KZ would stop giving transparent cables,i dont like the color of copper at all. A nice white or black cable would be great.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

GoLDii3 said:


> I wish KZ would stop giving transparent cables,i dont like the color of copper at all. A nice white or black cable would be great.


Then, we won't see if it's pure copper or something else.


----------



## Makahl

GoLDii3 said:


> I wish KZ would stop giving transparent cables,i dont like the color of copper at all. A nice white or black cable would be great.



I'm not a fan either. 
The ZS4/3E have a nice soft black cable but the Y-splitter is a bit thick so not the most comfortable thing. Nowadays I just stick to the TRN/NiceHCK/Yin/Jcally black options IMO it always looks more "classy" aesthetic-wise.


----------



## HAMS

GoLDii3 said:


> I wish KZ would stop giving transparent cables,i dont like the color of copper at all. A nice white or black cable would be great.



I agree. Copper color is too obscene to wear on public. lol


----------



## PhonoPhi

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Then, we won't see if it's pure copper or something else.



One won't see (distinguish) whether it is pure copper or 90% or 70%, or copper-plated anything.

Then if someone's silver cable became green that means this cable had quite a bit of copper in it, since "green" are the copper salts - no blue/green common silver compounds, and silver usually blackens by sulfidization.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Copper color is so blingy.  Its a bit much honestly, but it is far superior to the other KZ cables, so I use it. I try to jedi mind trick myself into thinking its more punk to be pretty then to be tough and cool. 

Anyway regarding the cables. I measured them and this is what I found. 
Bronze/Brown KZ stock 4core R+ 0.911 R- 0.934 L+ 0.908 L- 0.968
KZ Spc 4core R+ 0.375 R- 0.381 L+ 0.390 L- 0.386
KZ Copper R- 0.308 R+ 0.307 L- 0.307 L+ 0.302


----------



## archdawg

ZS10 Pro - Two weeks in

... or around 300 hours of playtime/heavy burn-in with things starting to really fall into place after more than ~200 long hours.
Some days ago I still preferred my ZS7 over the new 10 Pro for pretty much anything other than EDM. In the meantime I kept rolling cables and tips and finally settled on a white 8-core Jcally cable, my standard wide-bore double flanges and some bi-color standard tips that AFAIR came with some KZs for a less bassy more balanced sound.




 

Switching back and forth mainly between those two sets for the last few days I suddenly found more and more songs that I actually preferred through the 10 Pro. It started with some R&B, then suddenly some latin vibes sounded more pleasing than before and now there are even some acoustic jazz and fusion tracks that I enjoy more through the comparatively more balanced and relaxed sounding 10 Pro but of course a lot depends on individual recordings.
There are still some subtle issues with the timbre of acoustic pianos, tenor and alto saxes and some other natural instruments but nothing really annoying, especially considering their low price. OTOH the 10 Pro have the most natural sounding highs and treble of any of my KZ IEMs and after those 250 hours have become some of my favorite KZs, next to my trusty ZS6 and ZS7 - money well spent - after all.

PS: does anyone have any issues with a sharp spike around 7.9 kHz on their ZS7? Just curious.


----------



## BrunoC

I don't sense any peak on 7.9kHZ in my ZS7. In fact I would like more treble out of the ZS7...


----------



## Podster

archdawg said:


> ZS10 Pro - Two weeks in
> 
> ... or around 300 hours of playtime/heavy burn-in with things starting to really fall into place after more than ~200 long hours.
> Some days ago I still preferred my ZS7 over the new 10 Pro for pretty much anything other than EDM. In the meantime I kept rolling cables and tips and finally settled on a white 8-core Jcally cable, my standard wide-bore double flanges and some bi-color standard tips that AFAIR came with some KZs for a less bassy more balanced sound.
> ...



I have to agree with you Arch The ZS10 Pro IMHO is the best iem's (tuned wise) to come out of KZ to date and I love my ZS6's and 7 (Truthfully bang for the buck all my KZ's) but the more the 10 Pro's break in the sweeter they sound, timbre, slam, instrument separation, sound stage and ability to scale just about to everything I own is pretty crazy for what I paid for these

They are truly the Silver Surfers of Chi-Fi budget iem's


----------



## GoLDii3

I just purchased today a pair of ZS10 Pro's


----------



## DocHoliday (Jul 2, 2019)

This video is golden for understanding feedback on earphones, cables and DAPs in the Chi-Fi threads.

Chi-Fi is a great hobby and information like this can help clarify a reviewer's possible motivations (carrot and stick) but it will also will help you filter the reviews you're reading so you can keep things in proper perspective. 




p.s. - I don't want to make multiple posts in several threads so can someone else post this info in the "Chinese/Asian Brand"  thread.

Thanks


----------



## TheVortex

DocHoliday said:


> This video is golden for understanding feedback on earphones, cables and DAPs in the Chi-Fi threads.
> 
> Chi-Fi is a great hobby and information like this can help clarify a reviewer's possible motivations (carrot and stick) but it will also will help you filter the reviews you're reading so you can keep things in proper perspective.
> 
> ...




Done and thanks for sharing. It's an interesting insight into how it all works.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

GoLDii3 said:


> I wish KZ would stop giving transparent cables,i dont like the color of copper at all. A nice white or black cable would be great.


I disagree.  Copper rules the audio world!


----------



## Podster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I disagree.  Copper rules the audio world!



Only cause it's cheaper than Silver & Gold


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## courierdriver

HAMS said:


> I agree. Copper color is too obscene to wear on public. lol


Totally disagree...unless someone is a total freakshow, most people don't stare at your ears to see what iems you're wearing. It's the bling of the cable that makes people notice that you're wearing a special and good sounding set. I get it if you're the shy type and don't wanna be noticed...but I'm not. I TOTALLY  love the bling of a nice, transparent copper cable. A couple of days ago when I got on the bus, the hot female bus driver wanted to feel my cable on my Kanas Pro (ISN AUDIO C16). Giggidy! Cables are like jewelry...some like gold, some like silver, some like pearls and some like a nice Black Onyx. Different strokes, for different folks, as the old saying goes. Me, I like shiny stuff!


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Totally disagree...unless someone is a total freakshow, most people don't stare at your ears to see what iems you're wearing. It's the bling of the cable that makes people notice that you're wearing a special and good sounding set. I get it if you're the shy type and don't wanna be noticed...but I'm not. I TOTALLY  love the bling of a nice, transparent copper cable. A couple of days ago when I got on the bus, the hot female bus driver wanted to feel my cable on my Kanas Pro (ISN AUDIO C16). Giggidy! Cables are like jewelry...some like gold, some like silver, some like pearls and some like a nice Black Onyx. Different strokes, for different folks, as the old saying goes. Me, I like shiny stuff!



LOL that is too funny.  She wanted to feel the cable.

BTW I don't find copper blingy at all.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I disagree.  Copper rules the audio world!


Yup, it sure does. Not only does a quality made one sound great, it also complements the look of a nice iem. Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## raccoon city

Another copper fan here!


----------



## B9Scrambler

Best KZ cable. Come at me, brah.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL that is too funny.  She wanted to feel the cable.
> 
> BTW I don't find copper blingy at all.


No, lies...true story. She noticed my phone in my hand with a Fiio Q1MK2 attached to the back with strips of 3M Dual Lock. She asked me what this stuff was all about, and I said "good sound quality". Then, she saw my cable, and she reached out to feel it. I can't say that's ever happened to me before. Then again, I've only been wearing/using iems for 4 months. I can honestly say, that in my 40 years as an audiophile, no one ever wanted to feel my home audio system...or my speaker cables. The cable was definitely a conversation starter.


----------



## courierdriver

courierdriver said:


> Totally disagree...unless someone is a total freakshow, most people don't stare at your ears to see what iems you're wearing. It's the bling of the cable that makes people notice that you're wearing a special and good sounding set. I get it if you're the shy type and don't wanna be noticed...but I'm not. I TOTALLY  love the bling of a nice, transparent copper cable. A couple of days ago when I got on the bus, the hot female bus driver wanted to feel my cable on my Kanas Pro (ISN AUDIO C16). Giggidy! Cables are like jewelry...some like gold, some like silver, some like pearls and some like a nice Black Onyx. Different strokes, for different folks, as the old saying goes. Me, I like shiny stuff!


Edit: BTW, I fall into the "total freakshow" category. Whenever I see someone who's wearing iems or buds, I strain to see what brand they are. Sadly, most everyone I see or meet on the bus, uses those gawdawful Airpods.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I always get weirdo 20 somethins asking me if "those are hearing aids"?


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Edit: BTW, I fall into the "total freakshow" category. Whenever I see someone who's wearing iems or buds, I strain to see what brand they are. Sadly, most everyone I see or meet on the bus, uses those gawdawful Airpods.



I try when I am watching a tv show, lol.   I also notice peoples ears and sometimes comment on how difficult it might be for them to fit iems,,, buds,,, headphones.  Ears are really weird looking.


----------



## mbwilson111

BadReligionPunk said:


> I always get weirdo 20 somethins asking me if "those are hearing aids"?



Our mailman does wear hearing aids.  I feel bad for him constantly bringing us little packages from China that say earphones on them... or headphone cable.. or earphone accessories.  It is kind of embarrassing.


----------



## Slater (Jul 2, 2019)

Podster said:


> I have to agree with you Arch The ZS10 Pro IMHO is the best iem's (tuned wise) to come out of KZ to date and I love my ZS6's and 7 (Truthfully bang for the buck all my KZ's) but the more the 10 Pro's break in the sweeter they sound, timbre, slam, instrument separation, sound stage and ability to scale just about to everything I own is pretty crazy for what I paid for these
> 
> They are truly the Silver Surfers of Chi-Fi budget iem's



Agreed. Honestly, I’ve considered them an end game (for KZs anyways). They’ll have to come out with something pretty special to dethrone the ZS10 Pro (at least for me).

It was definitely a grand slam for KZ


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I try when I am watching a tv show, lol.   I also notice peoples ears and sometimes comment on how difficult it might be for them to fit iems,,, buds,,, headphones.  Ears are really weird looking.


Yeah...I can't say the ears are the first thing I notice when meeting people for the first time (unless something about them really makes them stand out...like overly huge or something like that). The thing I can say about this hobby though, is that ears make the biggest difference. Ears shapes and size make the difference between a headphone set that sounds great, or not. Just like the size of a room, room acoustics, etc. make a huge difference in how speakers sound. Different problems, but both depend on other factors. In the case of iems, IMHO, tips are a huge factor.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 2, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Best KZ cable. Come at me, brah.


It reminds me of ED9 that I got recently out of curiousity.
I would take the  "copper" cable of ZS10, etc. instead any time. I am of a minority that is perfectly fine with those memory wires. (I did grow to appreciate the fit, feel and aesthetics of 8- and 16-core cables, but no sound difference for me).


----------



## B9Scrambler

PhonoPhi said:


> It reminds me of ED9 that I got recently out of curiousity.
> I would take "copper" cable of ZS10 etc. any time. I am of a minority that is perfectly fine with the memory wire. (I did grow to appreciate the fit, feel and aesthetics of 8- and 16-core cables, but no sound difference for me).



lol, that is the ED9's cable. I don't think it's the best, but I do like it. I personally think KZ's current braided cable is tops. They incorporated user feedback and gave us what we asked for. Now they just need to refine it with a chin cinch and a shorter run between the y-split and earphones to avoid tangling. Maybe beef up strain relief too. The VSonic rip off jack and y-split are lacking in that regard.


----------



## PhonoPhi

B9Scrambler said:


> lol, that is the ED9's cable. I don't think it's the best, but I do like it. I personally think KZ's current braided cable is tops. They incorporated user feedback and gave us what we asked for. Now they just need to refine it with a chin cinch and a shorter run between the y-split and earphones to avoid tangling. Maybe beef up strain relief too. The VSonic rip off jack and y-split are lacking in that regard.



I agree.
The braided KZ cables are really nice. For my little DAP the straight large connectors are the killers. I just wish they would made angled (L-shaped) ones, that would be the end game for me.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Best KZ cable. Come at me, brah.



Is that the ZN1 ‘garden hose’?


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Is that the ZN1 ‘garden hose’?



ED9


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> ED9



Gotcha.

The ZS1 v1 cable is one of my favorites of the classic KZs. The way they integrated the memory wire was awesome. If I remember it correctly, I also liked the ATE-S cable setup.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jul 2, 2019)

Slater said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> The ZS1 v1 cable is one of my favorites of the classic KZs. The way they integrated the memory wire was awesome. If I remember it correctly, I also liked the ATE-S cable setup.



I LOVE the original ZS1's memory wire. Still the best I've come across to date.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> I LOVE the original ZS1's memory wire. Still the best I've come across to this date.



I also love love love the UiiSii CM5 preformed ear guides. They are thinner, softer, and more flexible/comfortable than any other ChiFi preformed ear guides I’ve seen (on any OEM cable or 3rd party cable). I WISH whatever method or material UiiSii used would be replicated by others.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> I also love love love the UiiSii CM5 preformed ear guides. They are thinner, softer, and more flexible/comfortable than any other ChiFi preformed ear guides I’ve seen (on any OEM cable or 3rd party cable). I WISH whatever method or material UiiSii used would be replicated by others.



Yeah man. UiiSii is under rated/under appreciated. They have some slappers in their lineup.


----------



## courierdriver (Jul 2, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> I always get weirdo 20 somethins asking me if "those are hearing aids"?


Ha ha! Too bad they are so ignorant and ill informed. These people need to experience good audio...something that that doesn't come with the smartphone they are attached to.


----------



## SoundChoice

B9Scrambler said:


> Best KZ cable. Come at me, brah.


Blocked, unfollowed, and reported for spam.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hello folks,
> I bought a new zs10 (blue one looks better with a silver cable) and find out, that there are two visible differences compared to the old one.
> - *different look of bass driver*
> - *different placement of ba drivers and two of them are placed closer to the nozzle.
> ...



*ZS10 v2*
After some more time with them and comparison against my old zs10, I can say the new one sounds better (*more detailed and well balanced*) and becomes my most favourite KZ iem for now. (I'm still waiting for zs7, as10 and 12.). There is *no more higher-mid peak* to talk about. Character is gentle V-shape.



HAMS said:


> I agree. Copper color is too obscene to wear on public. lol


Hmm, when I look closer, the color of insulation of the new KZ (zs10 pro) cable is realy ugly. It could be more transparent or different color. Otherwise I like looking at a nice copper cable.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

BadReligionPunk said:


> I always get weirdo 20 somethins asking me if "those are hearing aids"?


If they dont see the wires attached, say do you need laser eye correction? These arrent bluetooth ear pieces like you young morons wear. Lol.


----------



## HAMS

xxAMAROKxx said:


> *ZS10 v2*
> After some more time with them and comparison against my old zs10, I can say the new one sounds better (*more detailed and well balanced*) and becomes my most favourite KZ iem for now. (I'm still waiting for zs7, as10 and 12.). There is *no more higher-mid peak* to talk about. Character is gentle V-shape.
> 
> 
> Hmm, when I look closer, the color of insulation of the new KZ (zs10 pro) cable is realy ugly. It could be more transparent or different color. Otherwise I like looking at a nice copper cable.



I looks like snobby audiophile looking for attention when wearing copper cable. otherwise I actually like the color when not wearing them.


----------



## Crandall

xxAMAROKxx said:


> *ZS10 v2*
> After some more time with them and comparison against my old zs10, I can say the new one sounds better (*more detailed and well balanced*) and becomes my most favourite KZ iem for now. (I'm still waiting for zs7, as10 and 12.). There is *no more higher-mid peak* to talk about. Character is gentle V-shape.
> 
> 
> Hmm, when I look closer, the color of insulation of the new KZ (zs10 pro) cable is realy ugly. It could be more transparent or different color. Otherwise I like looking at a nice copper cable.


I'd bet that moving the drivers closer shifted a resonance peak closer to one of the BA's natural dips. Whats the millimeter gap from the BA nozzle to the edge of an installed eartip?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Crandall said:


> I'd bet that moving the drivers closer shifted a resonance peak closer to one of the BA's natural dips. Whats the millimeter gap from the BA nozzle to the edge of an installed eartip?


When you take a closer look at the second picture and compare it with photos on the internet, you realize, that KZ moves all four BA drivers closer to the nozzle. Two of them by 1 mm or so, and other two by 3 or 4 mm.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Agreed. Honestly, I’ve considered them an end game (for KZs anyways). They’ll have to come out with something pretty special to dethrone the ZS10 Pro (at least for me).
> 
> It was definitely a grand slam for KZ



LOL, I dig my 10 Pros so much I ordered two backup pairs off Drop and like you may end my KZ addiction with the 10's! Sorry @B9Scrambler to let you down but I've now got two lifetimes in iem's and with one starting college and the other just two years out I'm re-directing funds these days. Matter a fact I've really been hitting the gifting trail as of late and this is pretty much my current KZ stable outside of ZS1 Mini's (yes Slater the Garden Hose version of B9's beloved cable) and of course chrome ED9's (originals) to go with my black V2's.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> LOL, I dig my 10 Pros so much I ordered two backup pairs off Drop and like you may end my KZ addiction with the 10's! Sorry @B9Scrambler to let you down but I've now got two lifetimes in iem's and with one starting college and the other just two years out I'm re-directing funds these days. Matter a fact I've really been hitting the gifting trail as of late and this is pretty much my current KZ stable outside of ZS1 Mini's (yes Slater the Garden Hose version of B9's beloved cable) and of course chrome ED9's (originals) to go with my black V2's.



Not sure why I have any reason to be let down, lol. I have no horse in this race. Besides, they really started losing me with the introduction of CCA. The Tripowin TP10 was the TPing point :3 KZ's lineup was already packed with redundancies. Adding in two sub brands that bring nothing new to the mix is ridiculous and only serves to further dilute KZ and confuse people. When they start doing something new maybe I'll revisit them, but my main reason for loving the brand has been long gone, ever since they started focusing on hybrids and ditching development/production of their uber low cost models.


----------



## Slater

B9Scrambler said:


> Not sure why I have any reason to be let down, lol. I have no horse in this race. Besides, they really started losing me with the introduction of CCA. The Tripowin TP10 was the TPing point :3 KZ's lineup was already packed with redundancies. Adding in two sub brands that bring nothing new to the mix is ridiculous and only serves to further dilute KZ and confuse people. When they start doing something new maybe I'll revisit them, but my main reason for loving the brand has been long gone, ever since they started focusing on hybrids and ditching development/production of their uber low cost models.



The sad thing is that the only dynamic they’ve made in the last year (possibly 2) is the ZS3E. Everything else is a hybrid (as you mentioned).

Yet they’re putting some nice dynamics in their hybrids (Tesla magnets, graphene, titanium, etc). So they have the ability to bust out some dynamics.

I mean, how about updating the ATx shell with a newer driver and removable cable? Or the ZST shell with a dynamic? Or something with a nice coaxial dual dynamic?


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Not sure why I have any reason to be let down, lol. I have no horse in this race. Besides, they really started losing me with the introduction of CCA. The Tripowin TP10 was the TPing point :3 KZ's lineup was already packed with redundancies. Adding in two sub brands that bring nothing new to the mix is ridiculous and only serves to further dilute KZ and confuse people. When they start doing something new maybe I'll revisit them, but my main reason for loving the brand has been long gone, ever since they started focusing on hybrids and ditching development/production of their uber low cost models.



That was just based on the fact you have always been my go-to/reference for KZ's I'm with you on the branching out into CCA/Triptowin, they could have at least tried new configurations, more shell designs and drivers and kept everyone far more interested IMHO I've got a little extra dough coming in early October and a Birthday at the end and I'm planning my last hurrah in iem's to be a pair of Rai Penta's as I sit here just enjoying the heck out of my $2.98 Sony MH755'sLOL (Except maybe the dumbest cable design/configuration eva)

Anyway with this collection of KZ's, Rai Penta's, YY HQ12's, IDUN's, TFZ Queen's/Secret Garden's, Advanced Elise/ M5-1D's, Mee P1/2's, IMR R1/R1 Zenith's, 9 Tails, BGVP DMG/DM6's, Master's, Icarus III's, Delta V2, Vyrus, Sabre's, ASG Rocket's, Noble "X", LZ A4's/05A's, Sendiy M1221's, PFE 022's, Klipsch S3/X7's, Tin T2's plus some I'm sure I missed I'm kind of set At this point my mindset is what I've not heard I won't miss


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> I sit here just enjoying the heck out of my $2.98 Sony MH755'sLOL (Except maybe the dumbest cable design/configuration eva)



You have not yet recabled yours?  I could never have lived with that J cable.



Podster said:


> At this point my mindset is what I've not heard I won't miss



The problem here seems to be too much curiosity about what we have not heard.  With so much out there we need to find a way to not care.  I believe I have reached that point with headphones and iems.   Buds... well ... that is a whole new area.


----------



## Zerohour88

Anyone can direct me to any source that says Tripowin is a KZ subbrand? At the very least, the IEMs could be ODM or something, but even judging from their responsive social medias, they're a far cry from the super silent KZ. Even the KZ weibo is barely updated now compared to back then.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jul 3, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> Anyone can direct me to any source that says Tripowin is a KZ subbrand? At the very least, the IEMs could be ODM or something, but even judging from their responsive social medias, they're a far cry from the super silent KZ. Even the KZ weibo is barely updated now compared to back then.



Regardless of whether or not they're a sub-brand, their existence still dilutes the KZ brand. Same packaging, same parts, similar tuning. The only aspect that differs is what is printed on them. You could leave everything the same and simply replace Tripowin with KZ and no one would think twice about it. According to my ex-source for review samples (Linsoul Audio), one of Tripowin's brand goals is to be interactive with the community so it make sense that they are.

Edit: On their Facebook page they advertise their cable with the ZS10 Pro. Why not the TP10? Also this, lol.

 

If they are not a sub-brand, they are doing a wonderful job trying to make it seem like they are.


----------



## Zerohour88

B9Scrambler said:


> Regardless of whether or not they're a sub-brand, their existence still dilutes the KZ brand. Same packaging, same parts, similar tuning. The only aspect that differs is what is printed on them. You could leave everything the same and simply replace Tripowin with KZ and no one would think twice about it. According to my ex-source for review samples (Linsoul Audio), one of Tripowin's brand goals is to be interactive with the community so it make sense that they are.



Its like that Subaru BRZ/Toyota GT86 comparison slater made the other day. For some reason they applied this to earphones. It would've made a bit more sense if the shell design was different, I guess.

if its really the same founders, the most likely explanation is that KZ's been associated with "cheapo chi-fi crap" in some circles and having another clean-slate brand solves that a bit. A bit baffling they didn't go further than change the stamping and the brand (if this is the reason, that is).


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> You have not yet recabled yours?  I could never have lived with that J cable.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem here seems to be too much curiosity about what we have not heard.  With so much out there we need to find a way to not care.  I believe I have reached that point with headphones and iems.   Buds... well ... that is a whole new area.



Well if I have a top pocket I can put my phone in it upside down and they are fine or of course with my ES100 but me re-cable anything would be like asking Igor to do brain surgery

Yes, I'm pretty much at the end of the spend on portable, time to just enjoy all that I have and live my fantasies through those who still ride the train around here

@Zerohour88 in regards to B9's comments and it's not hard for even a dummy (referring to myself here) to see Tripowin & CCA are coming off the same production line (regardless of what one may or may not be able to pull up on it)! Might want to watch the Hawaiian Bugle Boys video again on the manufacturing/seller food chain


----------



## B9Scrambler

Zerohour88 said:


> Its like that Subaru BRZ/Toyota GT86 comparison slater made the other day. For some reason they applied this to earphones. It would've made a bit more sense if the shell design was different, I guess.
> 
> if its really the same founders, the most likely explanation is that KZ's been associated with "cheapo chi-fi crap" in some circles and having another clean-slate brand solves that a bit. A bit baffling they didn't go further than change the stamping and the brand (if this is the reason, that is).



Can also toss the Supra/BMW Z4 in there, lol.

I edited my post with some examples off their Facebook page. I would be shocked if they were not a spin-off brand.


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> @Zerohour88 in regards to B9's comments and it's not hard for even a dummy (referring to myself here) to see Tripowin & CCA are coming off the same production line (regardless of what one may or may not be able to pull up on it)! Might want to watch the Hawaiian Bugle Boys video again on the manufacturing/seller food chain



hence my ODM comment. Any tom, dick and harry can go to the factory and commission enough units to get their own brand stamped. Its a matter of how the brand itself will be managed (tuning, pricing, etc).

simply commenting since it puzzled me to see people being "disillusioned" (if that's the right term to use) about KZ possibly making another brand or an off-shoot using KZ's factory to start their own brand. But I digress, should learn to keep my mouth shut then.


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> hence my ODM comment. Any tom, dick and harry can go to the factory and commission enough units to get their own brand stamped. Its a matter of how the brand itself will be managed (tuning, pricing, etc).
> 
> simply commenting since it puzzled me to see people being "disillusioned" (if that's the right term to use) about KZ possibly making another brand or an off-shoot using KZ's factory to start their own brand. But I digress, should learn to keep my mouth shut then.



Not at all, we all sure need to talk this stuff out (if not really flesh out what's really going on) and why I made sure the Dummy reference was pointed directly at me an no one else I'm sure we are fed just as much misinformation as we are facts


----------



## B9Scrambler

Zerohour88 said:


> hence my ODM comment. Any tom, dick and harry can go to the factory and commission enough units to get their own brand stamped. Its a matter of how the brand itself will be managed (tuning, pricing, etc).
> 
> simply commenting since it puzzled me to see people being "disillusioned" (if that's the right term to use) about KZ possibly making another brand or an off-shoot using KZ's factory to start their own brand. But I digress, should *learn to keep my mouth shut then*.



No way! Makes sense to question it being a spin off. The way they're marketing suggests they are though since they routinely mention KZ in numerous posts, going so far as to say the TP10 is an upgraded AS10. It's quite bizarre really.


----------



## B9Scrambler (Jul 3, 2019)

Oh yeah, and a Tripowin rep contacted me a week ago offering additional review ops; a cable and the ZS10 Pro. I can't see why they would suggest reviewing a product from a competing brand unless they were related. Completely forgot about the email until now, lol.

_"I am reaching out to you because I have two products that I think it will be appropriate for your audience. Would you be willing to test it and make review video or article of KZ ZS10 pro which are the new HIFI IEMs with attractable sound. At the same time, we hope you can make review of one Tripowin QDC C8 connector cable as well. This cable can work perfectly with the KZ ZS10 Pro. Noted, the cable has three option of 2.5mm, 3.5mm and 4.4mm. So please tell us which cable you want it and we will send it with IEM."
_
Edit: Sent a response asking if they're able to confirm if they are a sub-brand.


----------



## Veyska

Slater said:


> The sad thing is that the only dynamic they’ve made in the last year (possibly 2) is the ZS3E. Everything else is a hybrid (as you mentioned).
> 
> Yet they’re putting some nice dynamics in their hybrids (Tesla magnets, graphene, titanium, etc). So they have the ability to bust out some dynamics.
> 
> I mean, how about updating the ATx shell with a newer driver and removable cable? Or the ZST shell with a dynamic? Or something with a nice coaxial dual dynamic?


Given I relegated my KZ/CCA collection to "variety/curiosity/merely-annoying-if-I-lose-them" because of a premium dynamic (IE 40 Pro) I'd definitely be curious to see what KZ could do with cheaper versions thereof, the ZSN/C10/etc form factor's not at all uncomfortable but there's something to be said for slimmer models as well.


----------



## Podster

Well I for one sure wish CA would stop copying KZ LOL Every time I hit the home page and see that IO ad I immediately think KZ released a red ZS7 with a black nozzle Of course Pod's just joking and had I bought any CA at 10 times or more than the KZ's I would not find it too funny either


----------



## tgx78

KZ is the one blatantly copied CA design with ZS5 lol


----------



## B9Scrambler

tgx78 said:


> KZ is the one blatantly copied CA design with ZS5 lol



We know. He was joking. That horse was already beaten to death, stripped of any useful parts, and buried in the backyard to be unearthed when the area is flagged for a new housing complex.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> Anyone can direct me to any source that says Tripowin is a KZ subbrand? At the very least, the IEMs could be ODM or something, but even judging from their responsive social medias, they're a far cry from the super silent KZ. Even the KZ weibo is barely updated now compared to back then.



It’s just a private label (aka rebrand, aka ODM), not a sub brand. KB Ear has a new one too, and they are very blatant that it’s nothing more than a rebranded KZ.

In other words, *anyone* can pay KZ to put your name and logo on a KZ IEM/packaging. You just have to buy a minimum number of units (like 1,000), plus pay retooling fees for things like logo printing, box printing, etc).

Companies all over the world do it all the time, ranging from headphones to toasters to canned soup to cars.

NiceHCK does not make their own cables. They pay someone to do it for them, and just put the NiceHCK logo on.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> We know. He was joking. That horse was already beaten to death, stripped of any useful parts, and buried in the backyard to be unearthed when the area is flagged for a new housing complex.



It's OK, I understand TG's sensitivity with two CA's in inventory


----------



## macky112

Hi all,

I noticed something strange in my ZS7’s right housing. When I tilt my head to the right, there is a very faint tapping noise. Does it mean something came loose in there? And is this something I can fix?  TIA!


----------



## Crandall

macky112 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I noticed something strange in my ZS7’s right housing. When I tilt my head to the right, there is a very faint tapping noise. Does it mean something came loose in there? And is this something I can fix?  TIA!


You can open the ZS7 with a Torx T4(I think, maybe T5), and check it out. They're likely held in place with hot glue either to the aluminum casing, or a 3d printed plastic guide. Be careful though since(if I recall correctly) you might accidentally shift the positioning of the BA near the nozzle.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jul 4, 2019)

Crandall said:


> You can open the ZS7 with a Torx T4(I think, maybe T5), and check it out. They're likely held in place with hot glue either to the aluminum casing, or a 3d printed plastic guide. Be careful though since(if I recall correctly) you might accidentally shift the positioning of the BA near the nozzle.



There is no ba near/in the the nozzle portion of the zs7, unlike zs5, zs6. Maybe the reason they sound warm. All of the drivers are inside the shell portion itself.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

macky112 said:


> I noticed something strange in my ZS7’s right housing. When I tilt my head to the right, there is a very faint tapping noise. Does it mean something came loose in there?


It sounds like that ear has a finger inside tapping to the music.


----------



## macky112

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It sounds like that ear has a finger inside tapping to the music.



Haha, that’s a good one

The noise is not as bad as driver flex, but it is noticeable and distracting, and I think it’s gotten worse, now bigger head motion would cause that noise, that’s why I ask


----------



## katatonicone1 (Jul 4, 2019)

Another new happy owner of ZS10 PRO here. This is scary good for this money. Sound signature is lovely.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Jul 4, 2019)

The only KZ I'd buy now is ZS10 Pro. After tons of positive impressions, it seems a genuine differential in the KZ/CCA lineup. An expected drop in price during 11.11 sale will be very tempting. For now I've dabbled into $3 DIY Tennmak Pro knockoffs. Excitedly waiting for them to arrive. If they should sound half as decent I'd probably have a winner for my use and throw gym earphones.


----------



## Slater (Jul 4, 2019)

ZS10 Pro Master Abalone Special Edition


----------



## HungryPanda

@Slater those look awesome


----------



## Slater (Jul 5, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> @Slater those look awesome



Thanks a lot!

I made those for my little brother for his birthday, which was a few days ago. He’s in the Army and always moving around, and I usually only see him every few years at best. So I wanted to give him something special and handmade, so he can remember me every time he uses them.

As you know from your wife’s Idun, abalone doesn’t photograph that well. It’s multitudes of colors and 3D effect looks sooooo much better in person than in photos.

I also coated the abalone backs in a thick layer of glossy UV-cured lacquer, using the same method many IEM manufacturers use. It made the color and visual effect stand out even more


----------



## GoLDii3

Podster said:


> LOL, I dig my 10 Pros so much I ordered two backup pairs off Drop and like you may end my KZ addiction with the 10's! Sorry @B9Scrambler to let you down but I've now got two lifetimes in iem's and with one starting college and the other just two years out I'm re-directing funds these days. Matter a fact I've really been hitting the gifting trail as of late and this is pretty much my current KZ stable outside of ZS1 Mini's (yes Slater the Garden Hose version of B9's beloved cable) and of course chrome ED9's (originals) to go with my black V2's.


Are the BA10's comfortable? lol


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> ZS10 Pro Master Abalone Special Edition


You could open your own IEM company with those slick and awesome looking earphones! ...Good looks plus good sounds, sells!


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> ZS10 Pro Master Abalone Special Edition



Man that looks awesome.


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> LOL, I dig my 10 Pros so much I ordered two backup pairs off Drop and like you may end my KZ addiction with the 10's! Sorry @B9Scrambler to let you down but I've now got two lifetimes in iem's and with one starting college and the other just two years out I'm re-directing funds these days. Matter a fact I've really been hitting the gifting trail as of late and this is pretty much my current KZ stable outside of ZS1 Mini's (yes Slater the Garden Hose version of B9's beloved cable) and of course chrome ED9's (originals) to go with my black V2's.


Yeah, I also bought a second set cause I love the sound so much. Also bought a 3.5 JCALLY cable and a case. Someone is getting a really nice gift at Christmas this year!


----------



## courierdriver

B9Scrambler said:


> That horse was already beaten to death, stripped of any useful parts, and buried in the backyard to be unearthed when the area is flagged for a new housing complex.


LMAO! Requesting permission to use this in a future conversation anywhere. THAT...splains it all perfectly! Good one.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> It’s just a private label (aka rebrand, aka ODM), not a sub brand. KB Ear has a new one too, and they are very blatant that it’s nothing more than a rebranded KZ.
> 
> In other words, *anyone* can pay KZ to put your name and logo on a KZ IEM/packaging. You just have to buy a minimum number of units (like 1,000), plus pay retooling fees for things like logo printing, box printing, etc).
> 
> ...


Um...so they are kinda like hifi gear prostitutes, in a sense?


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> ZS10 Pro Master Abalone Special Edition


DUDE! You got some serious skillz! Those are dope af. I'm sure your bro will love these. I'm totally awestruck at how great these look. Combined with the SQ of the ZS10 Pro, this particular set is stellar. Wow! Just...Wow.


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> Man that looks awesome.


Yeah...+1. Just amazing, stunning good looks. I'd pay extra, to get a customized set similar to that, but maybe a different colour combo. Like a red wood, or something.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Yeah...+1. Just amazing, stunning good looks. I'd pay extra, to get a customized set similar to that, but maybe a different colour combo. Like a red wood, or something.



Believe it or not, I am planning a wood version for my black/gold pair because I liked how the abalone ones turned out.

I just gotta decide on the right wood. I have a couple cool woods in mind (cocobolo, zebra wood, purpleheart, manzanita burl). I just gotta find the right piece with an interesting grain. As the face plate is so small, some wood wouldn’t look good. So many choices!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I think Im going to do a duct tape version for one of the ZSN I have. Little strips of duct tape and then poly over it. 

Make it match this.


----------



## Zerohour88

courierdriver said:


> Um...so they are kinda like hifi gear prostitutes, in a sense?



haha, while its fun to hear another derogatory term for KZ, its mostly the culture for most factory/manufacturers. Its extra business, simple as that.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Believe it or not, I am planning a wood version for my black/gold pair because I liked how the abalone ones turned out.
> 
> I just gotta decide on the right wood. I have a couple cool woods in mind (cocobolo, zebra wood, purpleheart, manzanita burl). I just gotta find the right piece with an interesting grain. As the face plate is so small, some wood wouldn’t look good. So many choices!


Let us know what you decide on! I'm partial to both the Cocobolo and Zebra...but the Zebra would be my favorite. Coco is very close second.


----------



## courierdriver

Zerohour88 said:


> haha, while its fun to hear another derogatory term for KZ, its mostly the culture for most factory/manufacturers. Its extra business, simple as that.


Yeah, I get it. More brands=more options and exposure to the market.


----------



## Veyska

Dani157 said:


> The only KZ I'd buy now is ZS10 Pro. After tons of positive impressions, it seems a genuine differential in the KZ/CCA lineup. An expected drop in price during 11.11 sale will be very tempting. For now I've dabbled into $3 DIY Tennmak Pro knockoffs. Excitedly waiting for them to arrive. If they should sound half as decent I'd probably have a winner for my use and throw gym earphones.


Do update us (or me, at least  ) on how all those clones end up working out, I am curious!


----------



## Podster

GoLDii3 said:


> Are the BA10's comfortable? lol



Well I got Shrek ears so they do fit me just fine. Believe I do have fairly large ears though.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Veyska said:


> Do update us (or me, at least  ) on how all those clones end up working out, I am curious!


Sure. They should arrive in next couple of weeks, hopefully.


----------



## pbui44

Wow, the KZ starline flip-tips are so convenient to clean inside-and-out with 5-minute perfect sealing, making me want to buy spare KZ starlines.  A perfect companion to my ZSAs, indeed.


----------



## Slater

pbui44 said:


> Wow, the KZ starline flip-tips are so convenient to clean inside-and-out with 5-minute perfect sealing, making me want to buy spare KZ starlines.  A perfect companion to my ZSAs, indeed.



Awwww yeaahhhh, I agree the flip tips rock!


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I try when I am watching a tv show, lol.   I also notice peoples ears and sometimes comment on how difficult it might be for them to fit iems,,, buds,,, headphones.  Ears are really weird looking.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Lol. I'm going to recommend over ear headphones. Any kind. It doesn't matter. Just any pair please.


----------



## Slater (Jul 6, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Lol. I'm going to recommend over ear headphones. Any kind. It doesn't matter. Just any pair please.



That person might be able to get some CIEMs to fit. They’d definitely be odd looking CIEMs!

Also, I just noticed how rectangular (or almost square) their ears are. So even some over ears may not work, unless they had the rectangular ear pads.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


>


...still trying to figure out where to insert?


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


>


Looks like this person could handle a good 3 way. One iem per hole, each covering a different set of frequencies. Just like speakers. The challenge of getting a good fit for each, tho...Lol!


----------



## archdawg (Jul 7, 2019)

Spent the better part of yesterday's afternoon enjoying my ZSA, I really like them quite a bit. Among other vibes I listened to some of my trusty test tracks yet again and these critters keep surprising me with their coherency*, pretty decent bass and vocals and spatial rendering (almost pinpoint imaging) that gives some of my more expensive and complex IEMs a run for the money. 12€ well spent, lol.

* most of my hybrid and multi BA IEMs render the vibraphone on one of my test tracks with low frequency interferences; the ZSA reproduces those vibes like single DD phones without any additional, artificial LF beats. No matter how much I like some of my 3 or 4-way phones I guess I'm finally moving back to single or 2-way IEMs, like back in the day.
Next stop: Toneking Nine Tails, wherever I'll see them on sale.


----------



## gourab1995 (Jul 7, 2019)

archdawg said:


> Spent the better part of yesterday's afternoon enjoying my ZSA, I really like them quite a bit. Among other vibes I listened to some of my trusty test tracks yet again and these critters keep surprising me with their coherency*, pretty decent bass and vocals and spatial rendering (almost pinpoint imaging) that gives some of my more expensive and complex IEMs a run for the money. 12€ well spent, lol.
> 
> * most of my hybrid and multi BA IEMs render the vibraphone on one of my test tracks with low frequency interferences; the ZSA reproduces those vibes like single DD phones without any additional, artificial LF beats. No matter how much I like some of my 3 or 4-way phones I guess I'm finally moving back to single or 2-way IEMs, like back in the day.
> Next stop: Toneking Nine Tails, wherever I'll see them on sale.



A well refined triple driver could go a long way. One for each low middle and high frequencies. Given it gets harder to manage crossover in an iem consisting a larger number of drivers. Would like to see more of that.

That said I'm getting the zs10 pro for a trade with the zs7. Since as12 or a10 dont seem desirable to me sound wise. Dont think its worth buying without the trade.


----------



## auraldesire95

What would be a better purchase? The *ZS6* (£27.64) or the *ZS10 Pro* (£32.41). There’s £4.77 difference and I’m stuck deciding which to buy.


----------



## TheVortex

auraldesire95 said:


> What would be a better purchase? The *ZS6* (£27.64) or the *ZS10 Pro* (£32.41). There’s £4.77 difference and I’m stuck deciding which to buy.



Definitely the ZS10 pro. It is probably the best that KZ currently offer and the ZS6 have excessive treble.


----------



## Tweeters

I have a question: A lot of people were talking a while back about the ZSN Pro sounding almost identical to ZS10 Pro except for having brighter treble. Now, everyone hails the ZS10 Pro as the best KZ iem (rightfully so) but no one even mentions the ZSN Pro despite it being $16. Where does ZSN Pro "rank" among KZ's lineup? Is it actually close to ZS10 Pro, or is it just good for the price?


----------



## HungryPanda

auraldesire95 said:


> What would be a better purchase? The *ZS6* (£27.64) or the *ZS10 Pro* (£32.41). There’s £4.77 difference and I’m stuck deciding which to buy.


ZS10 Pro for sure


----------



## George Taylor

Tweeters said:


> I have a question: A lot of people were talking a while back about the ZSN Pro sounding almost identical to ZS10 Pro except for having brighter treble. Now, everyone hails the ZS10 Pro as the best KZ iem (rightfully so) but no one even mentions the ZSN Pro despite it being $16. Where does ZSN Pro "rank" among KZ's lineup? Is it actually close to ZS10 Pro, or is it just good for the price?


I haven't heard the 10 Pro, but do have the ZSN Pro. I love them, and don't find them to be too treble happy at all. When I get a couple of bucks I'm planning on getting the 10's to give them a try. I do have the CCA C10 and can tell you I definitely prefer the ZSN to them. The C10 is kind of flat sounding in comparison, to me at least. Still not bad, just a little on the boring side.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Tweeters said:


> I have a question: A lot of people were talking a while back about the ZSN Pro sounding almost identical to ZS10 Pro except for having brighter treble. Now, everyone hails the ZS10 Pro as the best KZ iem (rightfully so) but no one even mentions the ZSN Pro despite it being $16. Where does ZSN Pro "rank" among KZ's lineup? Is it actually close to ZS10 Pro, or is it just good for the price?


Zs7


----------



## Slater (Jul 7, 2019)

Tweeters said:


> I have a question: A lot of people were talking a while back about the ZSN Pro sounding almost identical to ZS10 Pro except for having brighter treble. Now, everyone hails the ZS10 Pro as the best KZ iem (rightfully so) but no one even mentions the ZSN Pro despite it being $16. Where does ZSN Pro "rank" among KZ's lineup? Is it actually close to ZS10 Pro, or is it just good for the price?



ZSN Pro is great (so is the regular ZSN). I agree, it doesn’t get talked about as much.

I’d rank my personal favorites and bang for the buck from most expensive to least expensive):

~$40 - ZS10 Pro
~$30 - ZS7
~$15 - ZSN Pro, ZSN
~$10 - ED9
~$5 - EDR1

So really, there’s a great KZ at multiple budget levels. The ZSN Pro (or ZSN depending on personal preference) is right there, and is the best KZ at the ~$15 price tier IMO.


----------



## paulwasabii

Slater said:


> ZSN Pro is great (so is the regular ZSN). I agree, it doesn’t get talked about as much.
> 
> I’d rank my personal favorites and bang for the buck from most expensive to least expensive):
> 
> ...



Been using my regular ZSN lately.  I'd throw those in the mix if you lean towards more bass heavy music and you still want to be in the same <$20 budget


----------



## DynamicEars

I got ZSN pro (and regular ZSN) and ZS10 pro (and regular ZS10 but they're not similar signature at all).
ZSN pro and ZS10 pro share similar sound signature, a shallow v shaped signature that more much more balance signature compared to ususl KZ deep v shaped signature.
They're very similar in signature, just ZS10 pro got benefit from multi driver so they're more detailed, better in separation, and soundstage is larger in ZS10 pro


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 7, 2019)

pbui44 said:


> Wow, the KZ starline flip-tips are so convenient to clean inside-and-out with 5-minute perfect sealing.


What are the flip tips??


----------



## HungryPanda

KZ starlines pulled inside out as discovered by @Slater


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> KZ starlines pulled inside out as discovered by @Slater



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/


----------



## gbrgbr

Slater said:


> I’d rank my personal favorites and bang for the buck from most expensive to least expensive):
> 
> ~$40 - ZS10 Pro
> ~$30 - ZS7
> ...



And ~$20 - ZSR ?   One of the only two KZs I own.
Actually I was wondering if you could please review (at audioreviews.org) the ZSR as though it was a new release by KZ - and compare it to, say, ZS7 & ZS10P.

And, please suggest a MMCX cable costing < $10 for my just received ****, which is my fave IEM as of now. Thanks.


----------



## Slater (Jul 8, 2019)

gbrgbr said:


> And ~$20 - ZSR ?   One of the only two KZs I own.
> Actually I was wondering if you could please review (at audioreviews.org) the ZSR as though it was a new release by KZ - and compare it to, say, ZS7 & ZS10P.
> 
> And, please suggest a MMCX cable costing < $10 for my just received ****, which is my fave IEM as of now. Thanks.



For the cable, the NiceHCK 8-core and 16-core cables are made well and sound fine (the brown cables). But there’s other good cables to pick from too, so it’s not like the NiceHCK are the only option. There’s a actually a while thread dedicated to budget cables.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/

As far as the ZSR, there’s lots of reviews on that already, since it’s been out so long.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/

The ZSR is pretty bulky (big shell, bug nozzle), and doesn’t fit my ears as comfortably as the ZST-style shell (which covers ZST, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, CCA C10, and CCA CA4). But YMMV. As far as sound, it’s good. The treble can be a bit too much for some people (kind of like the ZS6), but it’s got powerful low end and the mids are great for vocals. The soundstage is big as well.

Bottom line is that the ZSR is good (and isn’t a piece of crap by any means). But I think there’s better options out now.

I’m sure others will chime in as well


----------



## gbrgbr

Slater said:


> For the cable, the NiceHCK 8-core and 16-core cables are made well and sound fine (the brown cables). But there’s other good cables to pick from too, so it’s not like the NiceHCK are the only option. There’s a actually a while thread dedicated to budget cables.



These :?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971728152.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32973046302.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/



Wow this mod added a little more space for my ZS10 pro probably due to longer nozzle on the tips.


----------



## jeromeaparis

gbrgbr said:


> And ~$20 - ZSR ?   One of the only two KZs I own.
> Actually I was wondering if you could please review (at audioreviews.org) the ZSR as though it was a new release by KZ - and compare it to, say, ZS7 & ZS10P.



I did enjoy a lot the ZSR when it went out, but today, KZ does much better earphones.
ZSR is very bassy, Mediums (voices) are recessed, the bass bleed a bit on mediums, trebles are sometimes sibillant. Few details.
Compared with AS10 or even ZSN, it is night and day.


----------



## Slater

gbrgbr said:


> These :?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971728152.html
> 
> ...



Yes


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Wow this mod added a little more space for my ZS10 pro probably due to longer nozzle on the tips.



Yeah, I think the longer nozzle, plus the trumpet shape at the end, plus the slightly wider and softer radius bore all contributes.

In addition, the OD increases slightly, which improves the seal for a lot of people.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yeah, I think the longer nozzle, plus the trumpet shape at the end, plus the slightly wider and softer radius bore all contributes.
> 
> In addition, the OD increases slightly, which improves the seal for a lot of people.



and, sadly causes a medium flip tip to be too large for me.  Too bad that the mod is impossible to do with a small.  I am happy enough with my medium stock Starlines.


----------



## revand

TheVortex said:


> Definitely the ZS10 pro. It is probably the best that KZ currently offer and the ZS6 have excessive treble.



I am having a ZS5 bought in November 2018. I am very satisfied with it, sounding great with a **** 8 core cable 
Those who have both the ZS5 and the ZS10 Pro, what is your opinion, which one is better? Is it worth to upgrade from the ZS5 to a ZS10 Pro? I was thinking to try an all BA IEM so I am waiting for the AS12 reviews to come.
Any of you compared the ZS5 and the AS12?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have original ZS5 and ZS10 Pro, get the ZS10 Pro you will be amazed


----------



## Wiljen

HungryPanda said:


> I have original ZS5 and ZS10 Pro, get the ZS10 Pro you will be amazed



Agree on the Zs10 Pro.  Sad part is they seemed to be moving forward and improving with the ZsN and Zs10 Pro models, and then they went back to lets make 9 different models of the same thing with the latest releases none of which are anywhere near as good.   1 step forward...


----------



## Podster

Ditto on Hungry and Wiljen's take, for sure will be a step up


----------



## Fuyaa (Jul 8, 2019)

Hello guys,

I am considering to purchase either KZ ZSN or KZ ZSN Pro.
Price is not an issue, since the price different is only like a dollar (KZ ZSN is cheaper).

I mostly listen to classical music, opera, jazz and sometimes pop music.

Which one is better?
Or maybe there is another KZ that is better for classical?

 Thanks!!


----------



## archdawg

Fuyaa said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I am considering to purchase either KZ ZSN or KZ ZSN Pro.
> Price is not an issue, since the price different is only like a dollar (KZ ZSN is cheaper).
> ...


As to which one's better depends on your individual preferences - there are tons of reviews out there already with loads of comparisons between those two models.
Let me continue with what has been suggested xy times in the last xyz posts here: throw in some extra $ and get the ZS10 Pro (less than 30€ on Ali Express - a s.t.e.a.l. IMO). I own all three and would pick the 10Pro any day of the week without thinking twice.

Nuff said, next please ...


----------



## Podster

Not to mention the ZS10 Pro is in the ZSN shell


----------



## Zune

I'm struggling to get a good seal with the standard tips that came with my ZS10 Pro's so i'm looking at these foam tips:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/⭐️KLIM-Earphone-Earpads-Replacement-4-5mm/dp/B06XVD8G65/ref=pd_sbs_267_1/262-8975033-3139037?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B06XVD8G65&pd_rd_r=df37a973-a1aa-11e9-88eb-69c551742d3a&pd_rd_w=pyCIg&pd_rd_wg=9mgce&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=X5F6NWBGHNDRKQMKQQAK&psc=1&refRID=X5F6NWBGHNDRKQMKQQAK

I'm not sure which fit though, 4.5mm, 4.9mm or 5.5mm. Does anyone know?
Thanks


----------



## Mr. Rattlehead

KZ ZS10 Pro are straight up porn. They have no right to sound like that for that little damage. Finally a true successor to my two year old KZ ZS6, which the Tin Audio T2 just weren't. Listening to them, I could also pinpoint those niggles with my KZ ZS6. Quite surprised by the amazing fit & comfort, details, separation and the near-perfect balance of lows, mids & highs to my ears. Can enjoy them for hours without feeling any fatigue. Overall, the best $30 ever spent without a question. 
KZ has surely come a long way. 

Will upgrade the cables soon, although the stock ones are pretty decent as well.


----------



## Mouseman

I will...825th the votes for the ZS10 Pro - they're amazing and have such great sound across the board. I'm waiting patiently for my balanced cable, one seller stiffed me (or the boat got lost), so I'm waiting for that dispute to be settled and the second order from someone else to be delivered. I can't wait!


----------



## Podster

Mouseman said:


> I will...825th the votes for the ZS10 Pro - they're amazing and have such great sound across the board. I'm waiting patiently for my balanced cable, one seller stiffed me (or the boat got lost), so I'm waiting for that dispute to be settled and the second order from someone else to be delivered. I can't wait!



Sorry to hear you got stiffed Mouseman, I find KZ’s silver Upgrade cable to sound pretty good but I an now waiting on a 16 core because the 10 Pros deserve it


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my KZ aptx-HD bluetooth cable after like 1 month of waiting (I even forgot I ordered this thing) from Aliexpress. The first thing I noticed when trying the HD cable is how much louder it is compared to the old non HD one. I also noticed a better connection and range with the HD cable. With the original one, if I moved like 5 feet from my PC, it will start to lose its connection, but with the HD one, I can go outside of my room to start getting loss connection.
Also, the HD one comes with preformed wire just like the new ZS10 pro cable unlike the regular one that came with wire. It is also longer for about 1 inch than the regular one.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Just received my KZ aptx-HD bluetooth cable after like 1 month of waiting (I even forgot I ordered this thing) from Aliexpress. The first thing I noticed when trying the HD cable is how much louder it is compared to the old non HD one. I also noticed a better connection and range with the HD cable. With the original one, if I moved like 5 feet from my PC, it will start to lose its connection, but with the HD one, I can go outside of my room to start getting loss connection.
> Also, the HD one comes with preformed wire just like the new ZS10 pro cable unlike the regular one that came with wire. It is also longer for about 1 inch than the regular one.



Hey since you got the bew BT cable from KZ, are they far better in connection section? if you put your DAP or phone inside bag, is it work flawlessly? did you encounter any connection lost so far? thanks a lot


----------



## HAMS (Jul 9, 2019)

I have the old aptx for zsn. I'd say connection is
slightly worse than my BT20 but still useable not to mention they sound better than BT20. Never have connection problems inside pocket or bag, makes me wonder if people overblown the problem or they fix it with newer batch.
edit: Just did a test. With the old kz aptx (type c) I get 10 meters without connection problem, with trn BT20 at same distance sound on the left side dies.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Hey since you got the bew BT cable from KZ, are they far better in connection section? if you put your DAP or phone inside bag, is it work flawlessly? did you encounter any connection lost so far? thanks a lot



I will do test on my portable device today. I only tried then with my pc so far and there was none connection loss yet.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Hello, ZS7 have arrived yesterday, so I did a quick comparison with ZS10 Pro (original cables and silicone tips) 
So ... ZS10 Pro are more detailed from lows to heights. 
Bass quantity is similar, zs7 have more hum in sub-bas. 
Mids are in back seat on both. Better balanced on ZS10 Pro.
Heights are more prominent on ZS10 Pro. More presence and airiness.

And my preferences? 
ZS10 Pro are great for electronic music and vocals. Their elevated heights do a good job here in terms of feeling and space. But I found ZS10 Pro as unbalanced for genres like rock, metal, indie, some pop or instrumentals etc. There is simply too much treble on high-hats, cymbals, percusions and similar high pitched instruments. 

And while ZS7 aren't so extended on both ends, I like them more, as the iem suitable for more genres. Also I prefer upper-mid bump in these days, which is audible and very well behaved on ZS7.


----------



## billbishere

I have had the ZSR's for a long time.  Have always thought they were great for the price, a little sibilant and not all that comfy but a pretty great overall sound for a 3 driver hybrid for the money.

Arriving tomorrow will be the ZS10 Pro's.  Not sure why I even bought them other than curiosity so I am looking forward to a 5 driver IEM.  I recently picked up a tempotec USB C dac I was going to use for my iSines but went with the Anker adapter to use the cipher cable instead.  So know I have that dac that needs some IEMs, so i got the KZ's!  lol  That is my justification I guess.


----------



## Podster

billbishere said:


> I have had the ZSR's for a long time.  Have always thought they were great for the price, a little sibilant and not all that comfy but a pretty great overall sound for a 3 driver hybrid for the money.
> 
> Arriving tomorrow will be the ZS10 Pro's.  Not sure why I even bought them other than curiosity so I am looking forward to a 5 driver IEM.  I recently picked up a tempotec USB C dac I was going to use for my iSines but went with the Anker adapter to use the cipher cable instead.  So know I have that dac that needs some IEMs, so i got the KZ's!  lol  That is my justification I guess.



ZSR's are a great little iem, I'm fairly certain you are going to love the 10 Pro's! Congrats


----------



## macky112

so it seems like the ZS10 Pro I ordered from ebay was never shipped, and I finally got a refund

I am happy with my ZS7 but i am still very curious about the ZS10 Pro


Slater said:


> ZSN Pro is great (so is the regular ZSN). I agree, it doesn’t get talked about as much.
> 
> I’d rank my personal favorites and bang for the buck from most expensive to least expensive):
> 
> ...



I am curious how the latest revision ZS5 compares to the ZSN and ZSN Pro in the ~$15 price range

the latest ZS5 is related to one of the ZS6 revisions right?


----------



## billbishere

macky112 said:


> so it seems like the ZS10 Pro I ordered from ebay was never shipped, and I finally got a refund
> 
> I am happy with my ZS7 but i am still very curious about the ZS10 Pro
> 
> ...




I ordered from Amazon.  43 bucks next day shipping.  Was really around that same price everywhere I looked.  Including AliExpress


----------



## Makahl

Damn, I needed to give my ZS10 Pro to my gf and I'm listening to a lot of experimental electronic music recently that has a lot of emphasis at the sub-bass region, reading this thread it's a consensus that ZS7 has the more oomph than ZS10 Pro. So, I'm curious to test it out and apparently it's the right call for electronic and metal. I'd buy another ZS10 Pro but the ZS7 is slightly more fun and less "correct", right?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Makahl said:


> I'd buy another ZS10 Pro but the ZS7 is slightly more fun and less "correct", right?


It realy depends on genres you are listening to and on your treble preferences. Because I hear the biggest difference between these two at higher region.

To be honest, for me the best balanced KZ are still the newest revision of the ZS10. They are smooth, maybe a little boring after a long time, but I can listen to everything with them. Detail-wise they are between ZS7 and ZS10 Pro.


----------



## voicemaster

billbishere said:


> I have had the ZSR's for a long time.  Have always thought they were great for the price, a little sibilant and not all that comfy but a pretty great overall sound for a 3 driver hybrid for the money.
> 
> Arriving tomorrow will be the ZS10 Pro's.  Not sure why I even bought them other than curiosity so I am looking forward to a 5 driver IEM.  I recently picked up a tempotec USB C dac I was going to use for my iSines but went with the Anker adapter to use the cipher cable instead.  So know I have that dac that needs some IEMs, so i got the KZ's!  lol  That is my justification I guess.



Because it is the right thing to do!! xD


----------



## RikudouGoku

What are the Best kz for female vocals or mids focused?


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> I am curious how the latest revision ZS5 compares to the ZSN and ZSN Pro in the ~$15 price range
> 
> the latest ZS5 is related to one of the ZS6 revisions right?



I’m not really sure what the status is of the ZS5.

What I mean by that is there was the original ZS5 v1. Then they came out with the ZS5 v2, that was basically the same as the ZS6 except in a plastic shell.

The part that is unknown, is that KZ now has a revised ZS6 with toned down treble (ie ZS6 v2). So the question in my mind is _did KZ also revise the ZS5 too (ie ZS5 v3)_?


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> I’m not really sure what the status is of the ZS5.
> 
> What I mean by that is there was the original ZS5 v1. Then they came out with the ZS5 v2, that was basically the same as the ZS6 except in a plastic shell.
> 
> The part that is unknown, is that KZ now has a revised ZS6 with toned down treble (ie ZS6 v2). So the question in my mind is _did KZ also revise the ZS5 too (ie ZS5 v3)_?



I was wondering about the possible zs5v3 as well due to the existence of zs6v2

How about zs5v2 vs ZSN/ZSN Pro at the ~$15 tier?


----------



## Aparker2005

I've only seen one review for the as12 so far. Doesn't look like a need to purchase with my as16 and zs10 pro based off the review


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> I have original ZS5 and ZS10 Pro, get the ZS10 Pro you will be amazed


Ditto. 10 Pro is crazy good.


----------



## courierdriver

archdawg said:


> As to which one's better depends on your individual preferences - there are tons of reviews out there already with loads of comparisons between those two models.
> Let me continue with what has been suggested xy times in the last xyz posts here: throw in some extra $ and get the ZS10 Pro (less than 30€ on Ali Express - a s.t.e.a.l. IMO). I own all three and would pick the 10Pro any day of the week without thinking twice.
> 
> Nuff said, next please ...


The ZS10 PRO is really something special. It's so hard to believe that a set like this, is less than$50. It competes with alot of earphones that sell for double or triple the price. Get the ZS10 Pro, and be done with it. I could happily live with these forever.


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> Not to mention the ZS10 Pro is in the ZSN shell


Nothing wrong with that. I find this shell to be a great fit for my ears anyway, and there are other KZ'S that are kinda big. For me, the fit is great. All around, I the 10 Pro hits all my targets.


----------



## Fuyaa

Sennheiser HD 600


archdawg said:


> As to which one's better depends on your individual preferences - there are tons of reviews out there already with loads of comparisons between those two models.
> Let me continue with what has been suggested xy times in the last xyz posts here: throw in some extra $ and get the ZS10 Pro (less than 30€ on Ali Express - a s.t.e.a.l. IMO). I own all three and would pick the 10Pro any day of the week without thinking twice.
> 
> Nuff said, next please ...



Thank you very much for your reply!
I decided to just purchase the ZSN Pro haha.
Thanks!


----------



## Slater (Jul 9, 2019)

macky112 said:


> I was wondering about the possible zs5v3 as well due to the existence of zs6v2
> 
> How about zs5v2 vs ZSN/ZSN Pro at the ~$15 tier?



I think the far better build quality, better cable, and more comfortable shell of the ZSN/ZSN Pro would make me question if the ZS5 was even worth considering at all.

As far as the existence of a ZS6 v2, I own one so it is definitely real.


----------



## courierdriver

Mr. Rattlehead said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro are straight up porn. They have no right to sound like that for that little damage. Finally a true successor to my two year old KZ ZS6, which the Tin Audio T2 just weren't. Listening to them, I could also pinpoint those niggles with my KZ ZS6. Quite surprised by the amazing fit & comfort, details, separation and the near-perfect balance of lows, mids & highs to my ears. Can enjoy them for hours without feeling any fatigue. Overall, the best $30 ever spent without a question.
> KZ has surely come a long way.
> 
> Will upgrade the cables soon, although the stock ones are pretty decent as well.


Yup...I think KZ has come up with a set that can definitely compete with alot more pricey gear. Absolutely LOVE the ZS10 Pro!


----------



## courierdriver

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hello, ZS7 have arrived yesterday, so I did a quick comparison with ZS10 Pro (original cables and silicone tips)
> So ... ZS10 Pro are more detailed from lows to heights.
> Bass quantity is similar, zs7 have more hum in sub-bas.
> Mids are in back seat on both. Better balanced on ZS10 Pro.
> ...


I don't have the ZS7, but I like the ZS10 PRO just fine for rock, Reggae, pop, and just about everything in between. I no longer feel the need to buy the ZS7 or anything else from KZ or CCA at the moment. Honestly, for less than $50 these things outperform other stuff that costs $100-150. Imo, of course.


----------



## Ferrosa

Terminator is coming (dynamic driver + 5 BA). Shell looks like ZSR.
https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1148802819136225280


----------



## voicemaster

Ferrosa said:


> Terminator is coming (dynamic driver + 5 BA). Shell looks like ZSR.
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1148802819136225280



6 drivers hm...


----------



## gbrgbr

Ferrosa said:


> Terminator is coming (dynamic driver + 5 BA). Shell looks like ZSR.
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1148802819136225280


----------



## firesign

Ferrosa said:


> Terminator is coming (dynamic driver + 5 BA). Shell looks like ZSR.
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1148802819136225280



Fck, I have just bought the ZS10 Pro...


----------



## Nimweth

gbrgbr said:


>


Does this mean KZ will only be producing multi-BA IEMs from now on?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Does this mean KZ will only be producing multi-BA IEMs from now on?


A good one! 
Or they can always return to their single-DD roots.

But then at least from a point of simple logic, any design can be improved at least a little bit by adding one more driver.

I still hope that CCA will do C20 based on C16 with the added sub-bass DD and piezo


----------



## moisespr123

Twitter says it's 1 DD and 5 BA


----------



## nxnje

Nimweth said:


> Does this mean KZ will only be producing multi-BA IEMs from now on?



I hope not.
I mean, for example i like CCA A10 which is a great example of an excellent tuning in a cheap multi-BA config, but if i had to choose a personal daily companion that would be a super natural DD like the one featured in the EDR1.
I love DDs and i'm one of the many that prefer an organic sounding earphone with a great slam than a super precise and highly detailed multi-BA iem.

Guess i am not the only one at least.. but in any case, i hope they stop making hybrid with 929283 drivers and start using better drivers for single DD and multi-ba configs.
Hybrids usually have more problems than solo-dd or solo-ba earphones.


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> A good one!
> Or they can always return to their single-DD roots.
> 
> But then at least from a point of simple logic, any design can be improved at least a little bit by adding one more driver.
> ...


Now that would be great! But I think it will probably be all-BA, there is a rumour that it will be the C18.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Now that would be great! But I think it will probably be all-BA, there is a rumour that it will be the C18.


I agree, most likely all-BAs.
I've heard about C18 rather than C20. I think they are trying to be strategic: first C18 and then C20 will get more purchases


----------



## PhonoPhi

On a note of all-BAs, I put together my subjective comparison of A10, X6 together with AS10, BA10, C16 and more.

So I would like to ask knowledgable and experienced people here what would be the best way to share it here?


----------



## raccoon city (Jul 10, 2019)

I have a question.
Since it involves KZ IEM's so much, I'll put it in this thread instead of the Chinese / Asian Brand IEM thread.
I have some KZ ES4's that I really like.
I like massive bass, minimal treble, and nice durability.
I think the ES4 fits the bill well.
Also I have ginormous ear holes and the only silicone eartips that fit are these:





Are there any IEM's not made by KZ that are similar to the ES4 for about $15 or less?
(The above ear tips have to fit the IEM in question.)
Oh, yeah, detachable cables are a nice bonus.


----------



## RikudouGoku

What do you guys think about the kz ate/ates, hd9 and the ed4? Anyone worth having in a collection?

Own the zs6, zs7, zsn, zs10 pro, zse, ZS4, edr1, ed9, tin audio t3 and soon the tfz 2019 my love edition


----------



## raccoon city

I have a KZ ATE-S, and it doesn't have enough bass for me.
Also, no detachable cable.


----------



## Podster

RikudouGoku said:


> What are the Best kz for female vocals or mids focused?



I still love my Carbon ZST's for female vocals but today and with the ZS10 Pro offered I would go with it or even a pair of ZS6's. Of course as I've always said we hear them differently and YMMV! I still say you can't go wrong with any of these 3, other's may even suggest some other KZ models Good luck in your choice


----------



## revand

macky112 said:


> so it seems like the ZS10 Pro I ordered from ebay was never shipped, and I finally got a refund
> 
> I am happy with my ZS7 but i am still very curious about the ZS10 Pro
> 
> ...




I do not know what do you mean latest ZS5?
I have a ZS5 from November 2018 and compared it with my ZSN.
I found that the ZS5 is more matured, more engaging in every respect.
A  "bigger" sound I would say, however I tried my ZSN with an Astell & Kern Kann and it sounded so good that I didn't believe what I heard. Nowadays for $ 15 KZ ZSN is a very good IEM.


----------



## revand

gbrgbr said:


>



It must be the ZS12 which was a predictable move by KZ after the all BA AS12


----------



## Slater (Jul 10, 2019)

Personally, I think it’s going to be awfully hard to top the ZS10 Pro by just adding 1 more BA driver to this “Terminator” model (assuming the tuning is basically the same).

ZS10 Pro = 1DD + 4BA
Terminator = 1DD + 5BA

I sure hope it’s not just a _moar drivers is moar better_ money grab. KZ seems to be doing a lot of that lately, and it’s sad to see people get sucked into that mindset. It’s not like it’s Intel processor cores.

Personally, I’d like to see a nice single dynamic from them (maybe a large diameter beryllium or DLC coated). It would be a breath of fresh air in this ocean of hybrids.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Personally, I think it’s going to be awfully hard to top the ZS10 Pro by just adding 1 more BA driver to this “Terminator” model (assuming the tuning is basically the same).
> 
> I sure hope it’s not just a _more drivers more better_ money grab. KZ seems to be doing a lot of that lately, and it’s sad to see people get sucked into that mindset. It’s not like it’s Intel processor cores.


Revisiting all-BAs that I have recently, it is clear evolution in resolution from AS06 to AS10/BA10/A10 to C16 - so far KZ/CCA gave more with more drivers.

Will 6 be much better 5?
Hard to say. I would personally love to see the DD dedicated to sub-bass exclusively, where more air displacement is hard to achieve by BAs.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Slater said:


> Personally, I think it’s going to be awfully hard to top the ZS10 Pro by just adding 1 more BA driver to this “Terminator” model (assuming the tuning is basically the same).
> 
> ZS10 Pro = 1DD + 4BA
> Terminator = 1DD + 5BA
> ...


Amen to that!  That's what I was hoping that "phoenix" model was going to be from that leaked 2018 line up photo at the beginning of last year.  Everything else besides that model came out, whether it was from KZ or CCA.


----------



## billbishere

Wow these are great.  The one word I keep coming back too about the sound is "refined" .  I have the zsr and while the sound is pretty good these are another level.  They sound so much more expensive in terms of what a IEM with 5 drivers cost elsewhere..

Oh and using the Sonata HD DAC on these is a perfect pairing


----------



## Slater

thebigredpolos said:


> Amen to that!  That's what I was hoping that "phoenix" model was going to be from that leaked 2018 line up photo at the beginning of last year.  Everything else besides that model came out, whether it was from KZ or CCA.



YZ66:
 

And the YZ63:


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> YZ66:
> 
> 
> And the YZ63:



Those look like ones that we were expecting a year ago.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Those look like ones that we were expecting a year ago.



Yes, they are the only 2 models that KZ said they were coming out with, but never did. Why they did every single other one (but those 2) is beyond me. Maybe they got busy with the whole CCA thing and forgot. Either way, it’s unfortunate, because I was actually really looking forward to those 2 models.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yes, they are the only 2 models that KZ said they were coming out with, but never did. Why they did every single other one (but those 2) is beyond me. Maybe they got busy with the whole CCA thing and forgot. Either way, it’s unfortunate, because I was actually really looking forward to those 2 models.



I was also interested in those at the time.  I thought when you posted the photos that maybe you knew sometime.   Too late now... I have bought too many other things by now so I don't really care.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> Too late now... I have bought too many other things by now so I don't really care.



Haha, totally agree!


----------



## nxnje

RikudouGoku said:


> What do you guys think about the kz ate/ates, hd9 and the ed4? Anyone worth having in a collection?
> 
> Own the zs6, zs7, zsn, zs10 pro, zse, ZS4, edr1, ed9, tin audio t3 and soon the tfz 2019 my love edition


You have the ed9 and edr1 from the ultra budget segment.
I think they're the greatest in the ultra budget lineup.
If you wanna know more, you can visit TheContraptionist (@B9Scrambler's website) as he has a dedicated post in which he has described every KZ he owns (and he's got even a few KZ which aren't actually easy to find around that can be a great choice if you wanna expand your collection).

If you don't search for KZ, then at like 15$ you could try the UIISII CM5 and obviously my beloved EZ AUDIO D4.

I've written a little super easy MOD some time ago.

Buy a pair of EZ AUDIO D4 and put on a pair of starline tips pushing them very hard until the nozzle ends, you'll hear which kind of bass you can carry out of them.
I think one of the most powerful bass responses i've got in a micro-driver for under than 10 euros.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jul 11, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> Now that would be great! But I think it will probably be all-BA, there is a rumour that it will be the C18.


CCA just sent me another message a few days ago stating that a CCA C12 will soon be released followed by a few tweaks on the CCA C18 within a few months. 


-Clear


----------



## Nimweth

1clearhead said:


> CCA just sent me another message a few days ago stating that a CCA C12 will soon be released followed by a few tweaks on the CCA C18 within a few months later.
> 
> 
> -Clear


I assume that the C12 will use the same drivers as the AS12. Their nomenclature is confusing, though, it could have been A12 and A18!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> I assume that the C12 will use the same drivers as the AS12. Their nomenclature is confusing, though, it could have been A12 and A18!


So far C-series had a plastic nozzle (C10 & C16), while A -aluminum, but then CA4 would be most confusing number, especially given C04 existence...

@1clearhead - any differentiating distinction between A12 and KZ AS12 pointed out?


----------



## Mouseman

I just got my JCALLY 8-strand balanced cable that I ordered off Ali, hooked up my KZ10 Pros and plugged it in to my ES100 at lunch. I'm thinking it's a big upgrade from the upgraded silver unbalanced KZ upgrade cable that came free with the KZ10 Pros. First impressions, holy cr@p! The soundstage expanded, and I hear more separation between instruments. Once I've had a chance to listen more and A/B it with the silver cable, I'll post more details. It seems like it makes an already impressive IEM even better.


----------



## Podster

Mouseman said:


> I just got my JCALLY 8-strand balanced cable that I ordered off Ali, hooked up my KZ10 Pros and plugged it in to my ES100 at lunch. I'm thinking it's a big upgrade from the upgraded silver unbalanced KZ upgrade cable that came free with the KZ10 Pros. First impressions, holy cr@p! The soundstage expanded, and I hear more separation between instruments. Once I've had a chance to listen more and A/B it with the silver cable, I'll post more details. It seems like it makes an already impressive IEM even better.



Nice, really making me excited for my balanced 16 core coming


----------



## Mouseman

Podster said:


> Nice, really making me excited for my balanced 16 core coming


Which one did you get? I was having a hard time finding one (and a similar cable was lost in transit and I'm waiting for Ali to settle my dispute), so I jumped on the first one that looked decent without breaking the bank.


----------



## billbishere

Do the core counts really matter?  I just ordered a decent 8 core.  Was going to go 16 but...  Didn't seem worth it


----------



## Podster

Mouseman said:


> Which one did you get? I was having a hard time finding one (and a similar cable was lost in transit and I'm waiting for Ali to settle my dispute), so I jumped on the first one that looked decent without breaking the bank.



Got one from NiceHCK, have several of them already and just loved the smaller multi braid on the 16 cores and of course how supple they are. Really lay nice

So black 16 core here on the left (NiceHCK M6's) and a salt-n-peppa 8 core on the left (BGVP DM6's)


----------



## 1clearhead

PhonoPhi said:


> So far C-series had a plastic nozzle (C10 & C16), while A -aluminum, but then CA4 would be most confusing number, especially given C04 existence...
> 
> @1clearhead - any differentiating distinction between A12 and KZ AS12 pointed out?


Sorry, I don't have either of them.


----------



## nraymond

billbishere said:


> Do the core counts really matter?  I just ordered a decent 8 core.  Was going to go 16 but...  Didn't seem worth it



If you dig into some of the cable threads, people have found that at least some of the 16-core and 8-core wires are not fully connected end-to-end for every core. Partly this may be due to quality assurance issues, but it's worth noting that soldering 16-cores and fitting it inside a standard connector leaves very little room. Since some of the cores are carrying the same signal, when they aren't fully connected end-to-end signal will still be passed in most cases and they'll pass basic testing but there will be impedance mismatches on some lines as a result. How noticeable this will be varies depending on a few factors. I've personally decided to limit myself to 8-core cables... and I'm especially suspicious of 16-core cables that are cheap, since the labor and Q&A costs should be a lot higher for 16-cores if they're done properly.


----------



## mbwilson111

nraymond said:


> If you dig into some of the cable threads, people have found that at least some of the 16-core and 8-core wires are not fully connected end-to-end for every core. Partly this may be due to quality assurance issues, but it's worth noting that soldering 16-cores and fitting it inside a standard connector leaves very little room. Since some of the cores are carrying the same signal, when they aren't fully connected end-to-end signal will still be passed in most cases and they'll pass basic testing but there will be impedance mismatches on some lines as a result. How noticeable this will be varies depending on a few factors. I've personally decided to limit myself to 8-core cables... and I'm especially suspicious of 16-core cables that are cheap, since the labor and Q&A costs should be a lot higher for 16-cores if they're done properly.



I believe it has since been verified that the problem was only with TRN 6 core and 8 core.  Others including 16 core were fine.   I have a Nicehck 16 core coming.   

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954926911.html


----------



## billbishere

Interesting.  I went with the **** 8 care from Amazon only because I am impatient...  Haha it was like $16 with the coupon and next day shipping .  I just hope it's a decent cable.


----------



## macky112

revand said:


> I do not know what do you mean latest ZS5?
> I have a ZS5 from November 2018 and compared it with my ZSN.
> I found that the ZS5 is more matured, more engaging in every respect.
> A  "bigger" sound I would say, however I tried my ZSN with an Astell & Kern Kann and it sounded so good that I didn't believe what I heard. Nowadays for $ 15 KZ ZSN is a very good IEM.



thank you for the reply

would you say if you pair your ZS5 to your Astell & Kern Kann that would sound better than ZSN + Astell & Kern Kann combo?


----------



## billbishere

That is a pretty funny pairing.  The headphone cost doesn't even probably cover the tax on the DAP


----------



## mbwilson111

billbishere said:


> Haha it was like $16 with the coupon and next day shipping . I just hope it's a decent cable.



It will be.  I needed one with no ear guides because it will be for these.



Spoiler: not a KZ


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> It will be.  I needed one with no ear guides because it will be for these.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: not a KZ



So I finally figured out the "B" in MB stands for Buds


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 11, 2019)

Podster said:


> So I finally figured out the "B" in MB stands for Buds



Yes, more and more I like them better than iems... the openess, the soundstage, and contrary to popular belief they do  have bass and sub bass.  It's all a matter of how you fit them and what foams you use.. or don't use.

Just like with iems or certain styles of iems they might not work for every size ear.


----------



## Podster

Ed Zachery


----------



## Caipirina

Late to the party regarding the KZ ZSE ... finally got them and pretty much only ordered them for the 'collection'   and I like that shade of turquoise 

Here's a question: Anyone else switches L/R buds to be able to wear them 'over ear' ... I get much better fit / better seal / better sound this way ...
............


----------



## PhonoPhi

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, more and more I like them better than iems... the openess, the soundstage, and contrary to popular belief they do  have bass and sub bass.  It's all a matter of how you fit them and what foams you use.. or don't use.
> 
> Just like with iems or certain styles of iems they might not work for every size ear.


My bud exploration came to a halt, when I realized that I cannot stand the foam and could not find suitable silicone rings 

Any advice? (I got Y...o BK2)


----------



## mbwilson111

PhonoPhi said:


> My bud exploration came to a halt, when I realized that I cannot stand the foam and could not find suitable silicone rings
> 
> Any advice? (I got Y...o BK2)



Silicone rings do not work for me at all... seems to ruin the sound.  I have found that some foams feel nicer, smoother, less itchy than others but I know what you mean.  You could be sensitive to whatever chemicals go into the process of making them.  Have you tried gently washing them?  Not in the machine


----------



## PhonoPhi

mbwilson111 said:


> Silicone rings do not work for me at all... seems to ruin the sound.  I have found that some foams feel nicer, smoother, less itchy than others but I know what you mean.  You could be sensitive to whatever chemicals go into the process of making them.  Have you tried gently washing them?  Not in the machine


No direct allergies so far 
But I really can't stand the feeling of the foam rings that came with the buds in my ears (knowing that the chemicals in cheap polyurethanes can be quite bad also does not help).

Any good foams to recomend and any good silicone rings to try (I could not find much in Ali not knowing what to find exactly)?


----------



## mbwilson111

PhonoPhi said:


> No direct allergies so far
> But I really can't stand the feeling of the foam rings that came with the buds in my ears (knowing that the chemicals in cheap polyurethanes can be quite bad also does not help).
> 
> Any good foams to recomend and any good silicone rings to try (I could not find much in Ali not knowing what to find exactly)?



Maybe you should ask in the Earbuds Roundup thread.  I am no expert but there are a few in that thread.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2905#post-15056849


----------



## Podster

PhonoPhi said:


> No direct allergies so far
> But I really can't stand the feeling of the foam rings that came with the buds in my ears (knowing that the chemicals in cheap polyurethanes can be quite bad also does not help).
> 
> Any good foams to recomend and any good silicone rings to try (I could not find much in Ali not knowing what to find exactly)?



Now you and MB may think Poddy's crazy (my close friends already know) but I have a friend back in Texas who had the same issue but loved his Monk's so much he used an industrial type tape and made a dot to cover the holes on the face, taped up his strain relief and entry and believe it or not he dips them in hot wax/paraffin like 2 maybe three times until they are smooth and it seems to work for him well (I mean after he pulls the tape back off) Of course with anything in this hobby YMMV!


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> Now you and MB may think Poddy's crazy (my close friends already know) but I have a friend back in Texas who had the same issue but loved his Monk's so much he used an industrial type tape and made a dot to cover the holes on the face, taped up his strain relief and entry and believe it or not he dips them in hot wax/paraffin like 2 maybe three times until they are smooth and it seems to work for him well (I mean after he pulls the tape back off) Of course with anything in this hobby YMMV!



Now, that is just weird.  I am surprised that the heat did not kill the drivers.


----------



## Podster

He dips them fast like a candle maker and the thin coat dries fast and then he re-coats, seems to work for him!


----------



## billbishere

New cable and tips worked out great.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Now you and MB may think Poddy's crazy (my close friends already know) but I have a friend back in Texas who had the same issue but loved his Monk's so much he used an industrial type tape and made a dot to cover the holes on the face, taped up his strain relief and entry and believe it or not he dips them in hot wax/paraffin like 2 maybe three times until they are smooth and it seems to work for him well (I mean after he pulls the tape back off) Of course with anything in this hobby YMMV!



Wait, what? He dips the foam earbud covers in wax? Or the ear bud? What does that accomplish?  Does it protect his skin from chemicals?


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Personally, I think it’s going to be awfully hard to top the ZS10 Pro by just adding 1 more BA driver to this “Terminator” model (assuming the tuning is basically the same).
> 
> ZS10 Pro = 1DD + 4BA
> Terminator = 1DD + 5BA
> ...


Totally agree! ZS10 Pro is phenomenal for the price, yet I balk at spending $80+ CDN on the AS 12. I can't justify the cost for a bigger shellsize which probably won't fit me comfortably and is just a set with an extra ba. Love the thought of a DLC dynamic totally. I already have Moondrop KPE and TFZ NO.3 is almost here. I think it would be cool to see what KZ could pull off with that kind of driver, for around $50-65. If they came out with such a set, with the ZSN/ZSN PRO/ZS10 PRO shell for comfort/ergonomics, I'd jump all over it.


----------



## courierdriver

billbishere said:


> Wow these are great.  The one word I keep coming back too about the sound is "refined" .  I have the zsr and while the sound is pretty good these are another level.  They sound so much more expensive in terms of what a IEM with 5 drivers cost elsewhere..
> 
> Oh and using the Sonata HD DAC on these is a perfect pairing


Agreed, and totally concur. These really do sound like they should cost alot more.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Wait, what? He dips the foam earbud covers in wax? Or the ear bud? What does that accomplish?  Does it protect his skin from chemicals?



Yeah, I thought he was just a little off myself but he can’t take the foam so he came up with the idea and since it’s a thin coat and dries fast it dies not hurt the hard plastic shell and for him they are smoother to his ears. I’m going to ping him as I think he’s also done it to a metal shell bud he has


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Yes, they are the only 2 models that KZ said they were coming out with, but never did. Why they did every single other one (but those 2) is beyond me. Maybe they got busy with the whole CCA thing and forgot. Either way, it’s unfortunate, because I was actually really looking forward to those 2 models.


Yeah, they look like they could've been something good. Too bad they didn't follow through on those designs. I really like the look of the 66 shell. Ah, well...you know KZ...I'm sure their cookin something else up that's right along those lines.


----------



## courierdriver

Mouseman said:


> I just got my JCALLY 8-strand balanced cable that I ordered off Ali, hooked up my KZ10 Pros and plugged it in to my ES100 at lunch. I'm thinking it's a big upgrade from the upgraded silver unbalanced KZ upgrade cable that came free with the KZ10 Pros. First impressions, holy cr@p! The soundstage expanded, and I hear more separation between instruments. Once I've had a chance to listen more and A/B it with the silver cable, I'll post more details. It seems like it makes an already impressive IEM even better.


I've got the same cable/iem combo, and love the SQ from my Fiio Q1MK2 from the balanced out.


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> So I finally figured out the "B" in MB stands for Buds


Yup...buds! I suspected after I checked out her profile page. I'm bud-curious myself, but I've had a couple sets in the past and never liked how easily they came out of my ears. I'm kinda diggin some of the newer styles that you can wear with an over ear wire, though. That's been they biggest problem for me in the past. I don't like hang down wires...they always have pulled out of my ears really easily.


----------



## baskingshark

courierdriver said:


> Totally agree! ZS10 Pro is phenomenal for the price, yet I balk at spending $80+ CDN on the AS 12. I can't justify the cost for a bigger shellsize which probably won't fit me comfortably and is just a set with an extra ba. Love the thought of a DLC dynamic totally. I already have Moondrop KPE and TFZ NO.3 is almost here. I think it would be cool to see what KZ could pull off with that kind of driver, for around $50-65. If they came out with such a set, with the ZSN/ZSN PRO/ZS10 PRO shell for comfort/ergonomics, I'd jump all over it.



Wow I am looking forward to your Moondrop kansas pro vs TFZ No. 3 comparisons.

Totally agree that the ZS10 Pro is super good for its pricing, just two to three years ago, we would have to pay at least $200 - 300 USD for a similar multi driver IEM from western companies. But after the success of the ZS10 Pro I am not sure why now KZ and its subsidiaries (CCA/Tripowin) keep churning out similar specs multi driver IEMs and just reshell it and rebrand it. Aren't they diluting their customer base? CCA may be tuned more neutrally and balanced than the typical KZ V shaped signature, but I feel stuff like the Tripowin TP10 doesn't really value add in terms of offering a different sound signature for the budget CHIFI segment. It seems to me like they are just trying to add as many drivers inside a shell and hope for a well tuned product to appear.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Wow I am looking forward to your Moondrop kansas pro vs TFZ No. 3 comparisons.
> 
> Totally agree that the ZS10 Pro is super good for its pricing, just two to three years ago, we would have to pay at least $200 - 300 USD for a similar multi driver IEM from western companies. But after the success of the ZS10 Pro I am not sure why now KZ and its subsidiaries (CCA/Tripowin) keep churning out similar specs multi driver IEMs and just reshell it and rebrand it. Aren't they diluting their customer base? CCA may be tuned more neutrally and balanced than the typical KZ V shaped signature, but I feel stuff like the Tripowin TP10 doesn't really value add in terms of offering a different sound signature for the budget CHIFI segment. It seems to me like they are just trying to add as many drivers inside a shell and hope for a well tuned product to appear.


Yeah, I have a hard time wrapping my head around why they have so many different brands and continue to make so many similar type configurations. But if you look at them all individually, they all seem to offer something different in their builds, sizes, materials and overall ergonomics/aesthetics. I chose the ZS10 PRO  because I liked the shell size and shape, the length of the nozzle and its mostly metal construction. CCA C10 has similar drivers (from what I have read, anyway) but has a bigger shell with a shorter plastic nozzle. I don't think that will work well for my earshape, so I went with the ZS10 Pro instead. I will post a review of my impressions/comparisons of the KanasPro, TFZ  NO.3, and ZS10 PRO once I've received the No.3 and had some time with them. Honestly though, as much as I like KZ's success with their all BA and hybrid iems, I'd love to see a DD with a DLC coating from them. If they could do it well and sell it for around $65...it might be something that could give strong competition to other higher priced brands now available.


----------



## archdawg

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I have a hard time wrapping my head around why they have so many different brands and continue to make so many similar type configurations. But if you look at them all individually, they all seem to offer something different in their builds, sizes, materials and overall ergonomics/aesthetics. I chose the ZS10 PRO  because I liked the shell size and shape, the length of the nozzle and its mostly metal construction. CCA C10 has similar drivers (from what I have read, anyway) but has a bigger shell with a shorter plastic nozzle. I don't think that will work well for my earshape, so I went with the ZS10 Pro instead. I will post a review of my impressions/comparisons of the KanasPro, TFZ  NO.3, and ZS10 PRO once I've received the No.3 and had some time with them. Honestly though, as much as I like KZ's success with their all BA and hybrid iems, I'd love to see a DD with a DLC coating from them. If they could do it well and sell it for around $65...it might be something that could give strong competition to other higher priced brands now available.


I went to the beach with my buddies yesterday, brought my EDR1 along and didn't miss anything 'better' too much. Again and again I can't believe how decent they sound (and isolate) for their 3€, especially run from an external DAC with some little subtractive EQing here and there. Now if KZ came out with one or more sophisticated single DDs ... DLC, titanium, beryllium, nanosomething, whatever ... just count me in.

Looking forward to your comparisons (KPE, #3) ...


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Yup...buds! I suspected after I checked out her profile page. I'm bud-curious myself, but I've had a couple sets in the past and never liked how easily they came out of my ears. I'm kinda diggin some of the newer styles that you can wear with an over ear wire, though. That's been they biggest problem for me in the past. I don't like hang down wires...they always have pulled out of my ears really easily.



Well then,  the Smabat ST-10 was made for you  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993154088.html



Spoiler: off topic photo


----------



## mikp

is the ZS10 Pro an upgrade over the es4? Forgot the es4 somewhere when changing buds on the apt-x hd cable.


----------



## billbishere

mikp said:


> is the ZS10 Pro an upgrade over the es4? Forgot the es4 somewhere when changing buds on the apt-x hd cable.


Yes, a huge upgrade actually.  es4 were made doing the old process, they have re designed / engineered all the buds since.  ZS10 Pro are amazing - i can't put them down.


----------



## mikp

billbishere said:


> Yes, a huge upgrade actually.  es4 were made doing the old process, they have re designed / engineered all the buds since.  ZS10 Pro are amazing - i can't put them down.



was looking for a new 2 pin for the apt-x hd cable, and totally lost with all the models etc. Either zs 10 pro, zs7 and cca c10 on my list so far, that price range. 
Really like my tin t2, if that came with 2 pin I would buy another.


----------



## billbishere

Out of those the ZS10 Pro is the best overall sounding imo.  If you want something a bit cheaper the ZSN Pro is another one of the latest designs, I guess they have a great sound to them too.  I haven't tried them personally but, they have he same shell has the ZS10 - just 2 drivers instead of 5 per ear.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> Well then,  the Smabat ST-10 was made for you  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993154088.html
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: off topic photo



I'm beginning to think we need to add a "T" after the MB as in "Temptress" too


----------



## revand

macky112 said:


> thank you for the reply
> 
> would you say if you pair your ZS5 to your Astell & Kern Kann that would sound better than ZSN + Astell & Kern Kann combo?



Yes I tried it and indeed ZS5 sounded better.


----------



## mikp

billbishere said:


> Out of those the ZS10 Pro is the best overall sounding imo.  If you want something a bit cheaper the ZSN Pro is another one of the latest designs, I guess they have a great sound to them too.  I haven't tried them personally but, they have he same shell has the ZS10 - just 2 drivers instead of 5 per ear.



seems I have the b - pin of the apt-x hd cable, so dont know if its compatible with the zs10 pro. See they sell a c pin also thats compatible. Seems the cc c10 is supposed to work with it, I see now they use the 2 pins that stick out.


----------



## Podster

That's the one thing I've always liked is those who like the ZS5 V1 really love them but pretty much that happens with one model or another for KZ lovers


----------



## revand (Jul 12, 2019)

billbishere said:


> That is a pretty funny pairing.  The headphone cost doesn't even probably cover the tax on the DAP



Yes I agree 
I was reviewing the Kann on my blog.
My KZ ZSN was new and I made a try.
But these moments show how good is the KZ ZSN
Usually I use it with a Fiio BTR3.


----------



## Veyska

mikp said:


> seems I have the b - pin of the apt-x hd cable, so dont know if its compatible with the zs10 pro. See they sell a c pin also thats compatible. Seems the cc c10 is supposed to work with it, I see now they use the 2 pins that stick out.


Was gonna' post commenting on that and then I load the next page and see you already had.    Don't have the ZS10 Pro (yet, at least, but I'm in no huge rush because...) but I do have the CCA C10 and it is quite nice and I can heartily recommend it as a solid all-rounder.


----------



## mikp

Veyska said:


> Was gonna' post commenting on that and then I load the next page and see you already had.    Don't have the ZS10 Pro (yet, at least, but I'm in no huge rush because...) but I do have the CCA C10 and it is quite nice and I can heartily recommend it as a solid all-rounder.



would not want to buy another apt-x hd for just the c pin. If b pin would work on the zs10 pro, I would get that


----------



## Veyska

mikp said:


> would not want to buy another apt-x hd for just the c pin. If b pin would work on the zs10 pro, I would get that


I think it would technically work...  The protruding bit on the Z10 Pro would still be protruding though, instead of safely inside the cable's end, and thus more vulnerable to being damaged (and also possibly messing with the fit/positioning a bit).


----------



## RikudouGoku

Is There any other iem that is similar to the zs7 in sound but with a shape like the zs10pro? The zs7 is too big and very unpleasant to use.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

billbishere said:


> es4 were made doing the old process, they have re designed / engineered all the buds since.  ZS10 Pro are amazing - i can't put them down.


Whats the "old process"? ES4 are amazing!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 12, 2019)

Here are my thoughts on A10 & X6, comparison with several other (budget) all-BA IEMs and brief comparison with most of other IEMs in my profile
(Kind moderators converted my draft article to a thread, I will be happy to discuss here since most IEMs are KZ and CCA. Hope it can be useful)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/com...n-x6-cca-c16-kz-as10-kz-ba10-and-more.910849/


----------



## courierdriver

hakuzen said:


> jcally cable for ZSN is wired for QDC (inverse of KZ polarity). not a sound issue, because both sides are inverted: not out of phase. so any other QDC terminated cable will serve as well as jcally cable


Hey hakuzen, I just received my TFZ No.3 and it also has those same Para C type connection ports as the KZ ZS10 PRO. I have another JCally 2.5 balanced 8 core cable on the way for it, but I want to start listening to the TFZ now, so I want to use the JCally balanced cable I already have on my 10 Pro. Do you know if I need to do any reversing of sides or anything on the TFZ, or do I just plug left to left and right to right, like I have done on my KZ'S when using the JCally cable? The TFZ No.3 came only with a 3.5 and I'm not a big fan of that flat cable that came stock with it. Any words of advice or suggestions?


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> Well then,  the Smabat ST-10 was made for you  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993154088.html
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: off topic photo


Do you own these? If so, how would you describe the sound characteristics? I've got them in my cart on Aliexpress, but I would like more impressions before I decide if I wanna pull the plug on them. Also, how is the comfort? Can they be worn comfortably for an extended period of time? Thanks, MB!


----------



## billbishere

courierdriver said:


> Do you own these? If so, how would you describe the sound characteristics? I've got them in my cart on Aliexpress, but I would like more impressions before I decide if I wanna pull the plug on them. Also, how is the comfort? Can they be worn comfortably for an extended period of time? Thanks, MB!


That is a neat looking headphone.  From the 15" driver to the enclosure design!  a little pricey


----------



## assassin10000

courierdriver said:


> Do you own these? If so, how would you describe the sound characteristics? I've got them in my cart on Aliexpress, but I would like more impressions before I decide if I wanna pull the plug on them. Also, how is the comfort? Can they be worn comfortably for an extended period of time? Thanks, MB!



Responded in the earbuds thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-2907#post-15059887


----------



## Mlaihk

Just received the ZS10 pro and AS16 .Testing the ZS10pro at the moment.  Gotta say the stock ear tips are crap.  The sound is distance and very soft.  But once I put on some TP45, boy they sound amazing!  Vocal quality was excellent for thw price.  Can't compare with my Andromeda S in clarity and soundstage but these makes excellent everyday earphones with my phone!


----------



## hakuzen

courierdriver said:


> Hey hakuzen, I just received my TFZ No.3 and it also has those same Para C type connection ports as the KZ ZS10 PRO. I have another JCally 2.5 balanced 8 core cable on the way for it, but I want to start listening to the TFZ now, so I want to use the JCally balanced cable I already have on my 10 Pro. Do you know if I need to do any reversing of sides or anything on the TFZ, or do I just plug left to left and right to right, like I have done on my KZ'S when using the JCally cable? The TFZ No.3 came only with a 3.5 and I'm not a big fan of that flat cable that came stock with it. Any words of advice or suggestions?


plug them normally. if polarity is inverted (it means inverted position of pins in each side) you'll notice nothing, while the 2 plugs are plugged in same position. it will work as well as if polarity was ok.


----------



## courierdriver

hakuzen said:


> plug them normally. if polarity is inverted (it means inverted position of pins in each side) you'll notice nothing, while the 2 plugs are plugged in same position. it will work as well as if polarity was ok.


Thank you very much for your help!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Is the kz aptx bluetooth cable fixed? It's on sale at aliexpress for only 20 usd at the cca store.


----------



## shockdoc

Mlaihk said:


> Just received the ZS10 pro and AS16 .Testing the ZS10pro at the moment.  Gotta say the stock ear tips are crap.  The sound is distance and very soft.  But once I put on some TP45, boy they sound amazing!  Vocal quality was excellent for thw price.  Can't compare with my Andromeda S in clarity and soundstage but these makes excellent everyday earphones with my phone!



Isn't the Andromeda S like a thousand bucks?!!? I would hope a 50 dollar IEM wouldn't sound quite as good. LOL


----------



## mbwilson111

shockdoc said:


> Isn't the Andromeda S like a thousand bucks?!!? I would hope a 50 dollar IEM wouldn't sound quite as good. LOL



Hey,  one COULD hope


----------



## khighly

ZSN Pro is nearly identical to iBasso IT03 sound signature. A little more low end, but it's definitely super similar. Hats & other cymbals actually feel more "fischer price" in the IT03's.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Hats & other cymbals actually feel more "fischer price" in the IT03's.



Haha, that’s a vivid description


----------



## PhonoPhi

mbwilson111 said:


> Hey,  one COULD hope


As long as you have a thousand bucks, there are more than thousand ways to spend them.
Not a single pair (or even five-six pairs) of IEMs for me


----------



## Demius

There's something driving me NUTS with these KZ ZS10 Pro earphoness!!! I use these while doing pushups/pullups outdoors, the right ear piece stays flush while the left always feels like it's slipping out the ear although it never really falls out. If I shake my head then the right stays put while the left kind of rattles. If the left earphone could stay flush like the right I'd be so happy with these.
Is this to do with my ears shape or the earphones/eartips=
Would be possible that aftermarket ear tips would improve how they stay in the ears?

Other than that, these earphones are absolutely phenomenal, got them for $30 on aliexpress when they had a discount. They sound much better my $99 Sennheiser Momentums IEM.
With an upgraded budget cable and a bunch of eartips (I see those New Bees mentioned often) these are gonna become my favorite go to IEMs.
Last but not least I might the usb HD Soanata DAC for my Pocophone F1 but still not sure it's gonna make a neglible differece on the sound.


----------



## baskingshark

Demius said:


> There's something driving me NUTS with these KZ ZS10 Pro earphoness!!! I use these while doing pushups/pullups outdoors, the right ear piece stays flush while the left always feels like it's slipping out the ear although it never really falls out. If I shake my head then the right stays put while the left kind of rattles. If the left earphone could stay flush like the right I'd be so happy with these.
> Is this to do with my ears shape or the earphones/eartips=
> Would be possible that aftermarket ear tips would improve how they stay in the ears?
> 
> ...



This sounds like it is a eartip or fit problem. Some people may have smaller ear canals compared to the other side, and I have read that some people need different sized eartips for Left and Right ears, so you should explore with other different eartips if you can. Personally, I use spinfits for this IEM and the isolation/fit/sound quality is better than the stock tips. I don't use foam/comply/new bee style tips, so maybe the rest can advise on this.
Do u have a chin cinch on your cable? That can help too if the cinch goes all the way to the chin or back of neck to provide better stability.

I also used the HD sonata DAC with the ZS10 Pro and it helps make the sound better (but only if you have high quality source file).


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Wow I am looking forward to your Moondrop kansas pro vs TFZ No. 3 comparisons.
> 
> Totally agree that the ZS10 Pro is super good for its pricing, just two to three years ago, we would have to pay at least $200 - 300 USD for a similar multi driver IEM from western companies. But after the success of the ZS10 Pro I am not sure why now KZ and its subsidiaries (CCA/Tripowin) keep churning out similar specs multi driver IEMs and just reshell it and rebrand it. Aren't they diluting their customer base? CCA may be tuned more neutrally and balanced than the typical KZ V shaped signature, but I feel stuff like the Tripowin TP10 doesn't really value add in terms of offering a different sound signature for the budget CHIFI segment. It seems to me like they are just trying to add as many drivers inside a shell and hope for a well tuned product to appear.


I will post my impressions of the No.3 in a couple weeks, when I've had some time with them. At the moment they are still unboxed, as I'm waiting on an upgrade cable for them. Not in a big hurry, since I already have Moondrop Kanas Pro and KZ ZS10 Pro, both of which I am enjoying immensely...so much so that I think I'm gonna be selling most of my overear full size headphones.


----------



## archdawg

Demius said:


> Last but not least I might the usb HD Soanata DAC for my Pocophone F1 but still not sure it's gonna make a neglible differece on the sound.


No idea about the Pocophone but I've got 4 different Xiaomi phones here (Max2, Max3, Note 4 and 5) and a Huawei X2 and the Sonata turns them into something completely different. That little sucker packs some punch and easily outperforms (bass slam/speed/structure, space/soundstage, details) my older modded and rockboxed DAPs as well (iRiver H-140 and Cowon D2 - does anyone remember these bad boys?) and even drives my AKG K712 and other hungry cans pretty effortlessly. 
In short ... best 25€ spent in years.


----------



## CYoung234

revand said:


> I am having a ZS5 bought in November 2018. I am very satisfied with it, sounding great with a **** 8 core cable
> Those who have both the ZS5 and the ZS10 Pro, what is your opinion, which one is better? Is it worth to upgrade from the ZS5 to a ZS10 Pro? I was thinking to try an all BA IEM so I am waiting for the AS12 reviews to come.
> Any of you compared the ZS5 and the AS12?



I have bothe the ZS5 v1 as well as the ZS10, ZS10 PRO and CCA C16. Of all of these, I still like the ZS10, but I am having a running fight between the ZS10 PRO and C16. Each time I listen to one of these two, it becomes my favorite - until I listen to the other one again - so go figure. But, considering the ZS10 PRO is less than half the price of the C16, I would say go with the ZS10 PRO.


----------



## baskingshark

archdawg said:


> No idea about the Pocophone but I've got 4 different Xiaomi phones here (Max2, Max3, Note 4 and 5) and a Huawei X2 and the Sonata turns them into something completely different. That little sucker packs some punch and easily outperforms (bass slam/speed/structure, space/soundstage, details) my older modded and rockboxed DAPs as well (iRiver H-140 and Cowon D2 - does anyone remember these bad boys?) and even drives my AKG K712 and other hungry cans pretty effortlessly.
> In short ... best 25€ spent in years.



+1 to this. I liked the HD sonata so much I bought 2 haha. Cheap and good.


----------



## DynamicEars

archdawg said:


> No idea about the Pocophone but I've got 4 different Xiaomi phones here (Max2, Max3, Note 4 and 5) and a Huawei X2 and the Sonata turns them into something completely different. That little sucker packs some punch and easily outperforms (bass slam/speed/structure, space/soundstage, details) my older modded and rockboxed DAPs as well (iRiver H-140 and Cowon D2 - does anyone remember these bad boys?) and even drives my AKG K712 and other hungry cans pretty effortlessly.
> In short ... best 25€ spent in years.





baskingshark said:


> +1 to this. I liked the HD sonata so much I bought 2 haha. Cheap and good.



what mode do you guys use on sonata HD? default one ( i dont know which one is defalt one A or C) or D? thinking of getting one for my phone for easier portable daily music


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> what mode do you guys use on sonata HD? default one ( i dont know which one is defalt one A or C) or D? thinking of getting one for my phone for easier portable daily music



Most of us use D mode, which provides the best quality music wise.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 15, 2019)

I am listening to the purple copper cable ZSN today and the sound is enjoyable to listen to compared to the lack luster black ZSN.

The black ZSN must be tuned different? I can't see how a new cable can change the sound that much... or maybe it can.


----------



## George Taylor

I have a simple question. A while ago I bought the ZST. For the life of me, I can not get them to set in my ears properly. I don't know if the nozzle is shorter on these than others from KZ, or what. It doesn't look like it looking at them. But I've tried several different tips, none of them seal up right in my ears. I guess my question is, is it me? Or is it a known problem?


----------



## Slater (Jul 14, 2019)

George Taylor said:


> I have a simple question. A while ago I bought the ZST. For the life of me, I can not get them to set in my ears properly. I don't know if the nozzle is shorter on these than others from KZ, or what. It doesn't look like it looking at them. But I've tried several different tips, none of them seal up right in my ears. I guess my question is, is it me? Or is it a known problem?



I would first verify that you are wearing them properly. I know that sounds dumb, but not everyone knows how to wear ergo-shaped IEMs. Especially to those who are new to the world of audio (not that you are new, I’m just talking in general).

NO:

  


YES:
 

If it still doesn’t fit, you should try different ear tips. Start with 1 size smaller ear tips, as using tips too large will cause fit problems. You can also try a different _style_ of ear tip - specifically something longer IMO, such as double flange, triple flange, or SpinFits.

If it still doesn’t fit, perhaps you have small ears, or just ears that are oddly shaped and the ZST just won’t work for you. In that case, maybe try ‘bullet’ or ‘piston’ shaped earphones.


----------



## George Taylor

Slater said:


> I would first verify that you are wearing them properly. I know that sounds dumb, but not everyone knows how to wear ergo-shaped IEMs. Especially to those who are new to the world of audio (not that you are new, I’m just talking in general).
> 
> NO:
> 
> ...


Well, I ask because I have the CCA-C10 & ZSN Pro and don't have the same issues with those. There's just something going on that is keeping me from getting the set in my ears right. Even when they are in "right". Like I said, it makes me question if the nozzle is long enough. I will admit to being in my 50s and not really liking the whole "draping the wire over my ear" thing that most modern iems have. I much prefer the more simple dangling wires out of my ear approach.


----------



## Slater

George Taylor said:


> Well, I ask because I have the CCA-C10 & ZSN Pro and don't have the same issues with those. There's just something going on that is keeping me from getting the set in my ears right. Even when they are in "right". Like I said, it makes me question if the nozzle is long enough. I will admit to being in my 50s and not really liking the whole "draping the wire over my ear" thing that most modern iems have. I much prefer the more simple dangling wires out of my ear approach.



I see. Well, the ZS10 Pro has a metal nozzle that is longer than the ZST one. So that’s probably what the issue is. I would recommend a longer tip, like KZ Starlines or SpinFits.

I know what you mean about the over the ear wire earphones. They are more stable and have less/no microphonics, but it does get old after a while. That’s why I enjoy the simplicity and sound signature of something like the KZ EDR1, ED9, Sony MH755, etc. Those are all worn ‘down’ (although they can also be worn ‘up’).


----------



## George Taylor

Slater said:


> I see. Well, the ZS10 Pro has a metal nozzle that is longer than the ZST one. So that’s probably what the issue is. I would recommend a longer tip, like KZ Starlines or SpinFits.
> 
> I know what you mean about the over the ear wire earphones. They are more stable and have less/no microphonics, but it does get old after a while. That’s why I enjoy the simplicity and sound signature of something like the KZ EDR1, ED9, Sony MH755, etc. Those are all worn ‘down’ (although they can also be worn ‘up’).


I may have to look into some of those you mentioned then. And I'll look into those tips too. I just kind of looked at it as a live & learn moment, seeing as they were around $15. But I figured I'd ask here before totally giving up. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## durwood (Jul 14, 2019)

For shorter nozzle IEM's I have found that one size up in tips seems to fix the sealing issue but that does not always mean they stay put. Most of the time I use the medium size, but something like my BQEYZ KC2 require the large. My last resort is foam tips, but some people don't like those.


----------



## HAMS

durwood said:


> For shorter nozzle IEM's I have found that one size up in tips seems to fix the sealing issue but that does not always mean they stay put. Most of the time I use the medium size, but something like my BQEYZ KC2 require the large. My last resort is foam tips, but some people don't like those.



Why don't use longer tips?


----------



## HungryPanda

I find with short nozzles I use large shallow soft silicone tips that just sit on the entrance of my ear canal with the weight of the earphones holding them in place


----------



## GoLDii3

Just got my ZS10 Pro's and those things are like having a woofer attached to your ear lol

Also im so happy that my B pin silver cable works with the ZS10 Pro's . I think that the connector does not go as deep as the stock one but it still sounds correctly and more important,no angled jack that i can't stand,no ugly dark copper color and no wires that look like spaghettis

May try the bluetooth adapter next


----------



## Markkys

Can anyone using the hidizs sonata dac confirm if kz stock cable's pause/next song - button works with it or not?

I recall reading somewhere that the button doesnt work with sonata, but cant find that post anymore. Its a dealbreaker for me if the button doesnt work, so i would greatly appreciate if someone could confirm this.


----------



## shockdoc

Anyone have the ZS10 Pro and the Tin Audio T3 and care to compare sound sigs? TIA


----------



## RikudouGoku

shockdoc said:


> Anyone have the ZS10 Pro and the Tin Audio T3 and care to compare sound sigs? TIA


Bass is much stronger on the zs10pro but T3 has more natural bass and does have bass on songs that have it. I prefer ZS10pro

Mids: vocals both female and male are more natural on T3, but the Zs10pro is not bad in comparison. I prefer T3

Highs: highs are much more brighter and clearer on the T3, a little bit boosted on T3. Zs10pro does not have as much treble but it sounds less natural. I prefer T3

Soundstage: T3 is a bit bigger to me, but it is not really that much of a difference. I prefer T3

Instrument separation: T3 sounds less "chaotic", Zs10pro is not bad but T3 is better. I prefer T3

Overall The T3 is a more brighter and natural sounding and the most detailed, good for editing and stuff. I prefer the Zs10Pro because it fits much better and comfortable and I like the extra bass. The Zs10pro has a balanced sound with a little bit of V-shape as topping


----------



## Coldheart29

Hey folks, hope this is the right place to ask for a suggestion.

I'm thinking of getting one or two KZ iems, but for the life of me i can't wrap my head around how many models there are out there. So, i'm looking for something that while not laking sparkle, doesn't end up being fatiguing or harsh (maybe the correct way os saying it would be bright but not overly so?), and a nice bass response would be appreciated too. The ZSN and ZSE are what catched my eye at first, but i read in a couple places that the former can end up being sibilant and harsh sounding, while the latter don't have much in the way of bass presence. But other reviews claimed almost the opposite. Then there's the ZST and/or the ZST pro. As far as i understand, the pro has less bass enphasys, is that correct?

So, what should i do, go for one of these or chose another model?


----------



## pbui44

@Coldheart29 you should ask @nxnje about possibly loaning you some KZs, as both of you are from the same country and customs will not be a problem.  Who knows, there might be a mini-meet over Chi-Fi IEMs at an espresso cafe in the works.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Coldheart29 said:


> Hey folks, hope this is the right place to ask for a suggestion.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one or two KZ iems, but for the life of me i can't wrap my head around how many models there are out there. So, i'm looking for something that while not laking sparkle, doesn't end up being fatiguing or harsh (maybe the correct way os saying it would be bright but not overly so?), and a nice bass response would be appreciated too. The ZSN and ZSE are what catched my eye at first, but i read in a couple places that the former can end up being sibilant and harsh sounding, while the latter don't have much in the way of bass presence. But other reviews claimed almost the opposite. Then there's the ZST and/or the ZST pro. As far as i understand, the pro has less bass enphasys, is that correct?
> 
> So, what should i do, go for one of these or chose another model?


ZSN Pro rather than ZSN - almost the same price, more refined.
From a sister/relative KZ company, CCA, CCA CA4 (very similar to ZSN Pro) and CCA C10 (nice resolution, treble is gently subdued) are good candidates.
Also ZS10 Pro - a recent consensus favourite may be worth to consider.


----------



## nxnje

Coldheart29 said:


> Hey folks, hope this is the right place to ask for a suggestion.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one or two KZ iems, but for the life of me i can't wrap my head around how many models there are out there. So, i'm looking for something that while not laking sparkle, doesn't end up being fatiguing or harsh (maybe the correct way os saying it would be bright but not overly so?), and a nice bass response would be appreciated too. The ZSN and ZSE are what catched my eye at first, but i read in a couple places that the former can end up being sibilant and harsh sounding, while the latter don't have much in the way of bass presence. But other reviews claimed almost the opposite. Then there's the ZST and/or the ZST pro. As far as i understand, the pro has less bass enphasys, is that correct?
> 
> So, what should i do, go for one of these or chose another model?



Hey boy! I'm from Italy as well! If you need some tips, don't hesitate contacting me.

In any case, the ZSN Pro could be fatiguing for some in the upper range, and the ZSE is an old product. Nowadays you can buy something better than this last one.



pbui44 said:


> @Coldheart29 you should ask @nxnje about possibly loaning you some KZs, as both of you are from the same country and customs will not be a problem.  Who knows, there might be a mini-meet over Chi-Fi IEMs at an espresso cafe in the works.


Pizza > espresso cafe


----------



## nxnje

shockdoc said:


> Anyone have the ZS10 Pro and the Tin Audio T3 and care to compare sound sigs? TIA



I own both and like both.
ZS10 Pro has a more powerful and emphasized bass region, forward midrange and sparkling highs with lots of detail. They are very easy to drive and soundstage is just a tad above average considering the almost linear mids.

The T3 are musical with a more neutral presentation but could show some sibilance.
Technically, the T3 are some steps above, but i'd say i quite feel i need always mi fiio a3 to carry out the best from them, while the ZS10 pros are much easier to drive.

They're different, and there's not one which is better than the other.


----------



## shockdoc

RikudouGoku said:


> Bass is much stronger on the zs10pro but T3 has more natural bass and does have bass on songs that have it. I prefer ZS10pro
> 
> Mids: vocals both female and male are more natural on T3, but the Zs10pro is not bad in comparison. I prefer T3
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks so much for the awesome comparison. One last question. How do they compare as far as isolation? TIA


----------



## Crandall

Coldheart29 said:


> Hey folks, hope this is the right place to ask for a suggestion.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one or two KZ iems, but for the life of me i can't wrap my head around how many models there are out there. So, i'm looking for something that while not laking sparkle, doesn't end up being fatiguing or harsh (maybe the correct way os saying it would be bright but not overly so?), and a nice bass response would be appreciated too. The ZSN and ZSE are what catched my eye at first, but i read in a couple places that the former can end up being sibilant and harsh sounding, while the latter don't have much in the way of bass presence. But other reviews claimed almost the opposite. Then there's the ZST and/or the ZST pro. As far as i understand, the pro has less bass enphasys, is that correct?
> 
> So, what should i do, go for one of these or chose another model?


What you're describing is essentially the same as what I was looking for, found it with the ZS7. I had tried the AS10 before, but didn't like the subdued sub bass, and had too much upper mid/lower treble.


----------



## chi-fi mel

I received my RevoNext QT5 today. It's a premium product other than the useless eartips. It sounds good, but I doubt it can challenge the AS10 as my daily driver. I've read a lot of raves in this forum for the ZS10 Pro, ZS7 and a few others and I'm wondering if anyone feels there's any KZ that's clearly better than the AS10.


----------



## SoundChoice

Coldheart29 said:


> Hey folks, hope this is the right place to ask for a suggestion.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one or two KZ iems, but for the life of me i can't wrap my head around how many models there are out there. So, i'm looking for something that while not laking sparkle, doesn't end up being fatiguing or harsh (maybe the correct way os saying it would be bright but not overly so?), and a nice bass response would be appreciated too. The ZSN and ZSE are what catched my eye at first, but i read in a couple places that the former can end up being sibilant and harsh sounding, while the latter don't have much in the way of bass presence. But other reviews claimed almost the opposite. Then there's the ZST and/or the ZST pro. As far as i understand, the pro has less bass enphasys, is that correct?
> 
> So, what should i do, go for one of these or chose another model?




Get ZS10 Pro and call it a day


----------



## igorneumann

ZSE isn't a specially good model, if you are going Dynamic, I would get the classic ATE, instead... but I wouldn't go dynamic as the hybrids are so much better and so cheap.

ZS10 Pro is amazing but more expensive than what you are looking for, check out the ZSN Pro, ZS4, ES4, or even the TRN v80 or IM1.



Coldheart29 said:


> Hey folks, hope this is the right place to ask for a suggestion.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one or two KZ iems, but for the life of me i can't wrap my head around how many models there are out there. So, i'm looking for something that while not laking sparkle, doesn't end up being fatiguing or harsh (maybe the correct way os saying it would be bright but not overly so?), and a nice bass response would be appreciated too. The ZSN and ZSE are what catched my eye at first, but i read in a couple places that the former can end up being sibilant and harsh sounding, while the latter don't have much in the way of bass presence. But other reviews claimed almost the opposite. Then there's the ZST and/or the ZST pro. As far as i understand, the pro has less bass enphasys, is that correct?
> 
> So, what should i do, go for one of these or chose another model?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I can't seem to find my ZSA cable...  Apparentely, they made it so you can't use any others.

I hope I can find one on Aliexpress?


----------



## Coldheart29

Oh wow, so many answers in so little time.



nxnje said:


> Hey boy! I'm from Italy as well! If you need some tips, don't hesitate contacting me.
> 
> In any case, the ZSN Pro could be fatiguing for some in the upper range, and the ZSE is an old product. Nowadays you can buy something better than this last one.
> 
> ...



Hey, nice to meet someome else from Italy (and yeah, pizza is definitely better ).
What about the ZST? I must admit they look rather nice. Is the sound quality up to the task?

As far as fatigue goes, i mostly need something to use when i'm on my mountain bike, so 1 or 2 hours sessions at most (got other main headphones), so i'm not particularly concerned about that. They can be bright, just non so bright that after a couple songs i feel the need to take them off. Actually, i am looking for something a bit brighter, since the headphones i use nowadays (Monk+ and sony mdr 100aap) are more on the darker side of things (the sony ones, my mains, particularly so).


----------



## nxnje

Coldheart29 said:


> Oh wow, so many answers in so little time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which genres do you like most?
The zst is an old product, like an outdated product compared to the more recent kz line.

I would advice you going for the ZS10 pro.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Jul 16, 2019)

Coldheart29 said:


> Hey folks, hope this is the right place to ask for a suggestion.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one or two KZ iems, but for the life of me i can't wrap my head around how many models there are out there. So, i'm looking for something that while not laking sparkle, doesn't end up being fatiguing or harsh (maybe the correct way os saying it would be bright but not overly so?), and a nice bass response would be appreciated too. The ZSN and ZSE are what catched my eye at first, but i read in a couple places that the former can end up being sibilant and harsh sounding, while the latter don't have much in the way of bass presence. But other reviews claimed almost the opposite. Then there's the ZST and/or the ZST pro. As far as i understand, the pro has less bass enphasys, is that correct?
> 
> So, what should i do, go for one of these or chose another model?



ZSE, as ZS2 is an old  double dynamic, bassy, without trebles and details
ZST is the first hybrid (with one BA) ZST colorfull is ok, but ZSN or even ES4 are much better with newer technology
maybe it is better you buy only one better earphone as the ZS10 pro than two as one ZSN + one ES4
And stock purple ZSN (with cooper cable) is better than ES4, cause stock ES4 is too bassy, that can be solved with silver plated cable or whirl large bore tips.

my advice: If you dont need a second one for your friend, buy one ZS10 pro
otherwise buy two ZSN (not the pro), these are the best. You get a lot for the price.


----------



## igorneumann

The ZSA cable is a regular "Paragraph B" cable, look for ZST cable.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I can't seem to find my ZSA cable...  Apparentely, they made it so you can't use any others.
> 
> I hope I can find one on Aliexpress?


----------



## PhonoPhi

chi-fi mel said:


> I received my RevoNext QT5 today. It's a premium product other than the useless eartips. It sounds good, but I doubt it can challenge the AS10 as my daily driver. I've read a lot of raves in this forum for the ZS10 Pro, ZS7 and a few others and I'm wondering if anyone feels there's any KZ that's clearly better than the AS10.



BA10, as long as the fit is not an issue. The same drivers etc but a bit more resonant and coherent.
Then I very much agree AS10 is really nice.


----------



## igorneumann

I personally prefer the Pro version (tighter bass), maybe getting a ZSN and a ZSN Pro and deciding for himself.



jeromeaparis said:


> ZSE, as ZS2 is an old  double dynamic, bassy, without trebles and details
> ZST is the first hybrid (with one BA) ZST colorfull is ok, but ZSN or even ES4 are much better with newer technology
> maybe it is better you buy only one better earphone as the ZS10 pro than two as one ZSN + one ES4
> And stock purple ZSN (with cooper cable) is better than ES4, cause stock ES4 is too bassy, that can be solved with silver plated cable or whirl large bore tips.
> ...


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 16, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> The ZSA cable is a regular "Paragraph B" cable, look for ZST cable.


Unfortunately, ZSA and CCA C04 use a special cable (looks like type B, but a bit smaller).
ZSA seems to be a dead branch of KZ evolution...


----------



## RikudouGoku

shockdoc said:


> Wow, thanks so much for the awesome comparison. One last question. How do they compare as far as isolation? TIA


Since the ZS10Pro fits me much better it gets the better isolation, not a huge difference so using foam tips would help both a lot


----------



## nxnje

PhonoPhi said:


> Unfortunately, ZSA and CCA C04 use a special cable (looks like type B, but a bit smaller).
> ZSA seems to be a dead branch of KZ evolution...



I own many KZ (ZS6, ZS7, ZS10PRO, ZSN PRO, ED9, EDR1, and some from CCA like CA4, A10, C10 and so on)..

I miss ZSA in my collection.
Do you think it's a piece which is good to get?
Do you think i should


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 16, 2019)

nxnje said:


> I own many KZ (ZS6, ZS7, ZS10PRO, ZSN PRO, ED9, EDR1, and some from CCA like CA4, A10, C10 and so on)..
> 
> I miss ZSA in my collection.
> Do you think it's a piece which is good to get?
> Do you think i should



ZSA and C04 are cheerfully V-shaped. ZSN and ZSN Pro largely superseded them my sound, to my ears. Though the difference is not drastic, and some may still prefer ZSA for its energetic signature, C04 is a bit more refined.

ZSA may me advantageous for small ears (really nice shell but a bit loose for me).

If just for collection, C04  shell is unique and may be worth to consider (?)

P. S. Minus their unique cable.


----------



## HungryPanda

As much as I really like the ZS10 Pro I am listening to the AS06 a lot at the moment. They have a very laid back sound which is great for acoustic music


----------



## mbwilson111

PhonoPhi said:


> Unfortunately, ZSA and CCA C04 use a special cable (looks like type B, but a bit smaller).
> ZSA seems to be a dead branch of KZ evolution...



The type A will fit the ZSA  but of course will not have the angled connector.   If it fits an ED16 it will fit a ZSA.  I am using the stock cable from my husbands ZSA on my ED16 because I like the angled connector but the B will not fit.  He is using an aftermarket balanced cable on his ZSA.  @LaughMoreDaily try one of the A type cables that you probably have on other KZs.  You will see.


----------



## PhonoPhi

mbwilson111 said:


> The type A will fit the ZSA  but of course will not have the angled connector.   If it fits an ED16 it will fit a ZSA.  I am using the stock cable from my husbands ZSA on my ED16 because I like the angled connector but the B will not fit.  He is using an aftermarket balanced cable on his ZSA.  @LaughMoreDaily try one of the A type cables that you probably have on other KZs.  You will see.



You are right!
Actually, I was just checking it out.
Generic two-pin connectors fit ZSA and C04 quite well, so @LaughMoreDaily can use his advanced/fancy 8-core and 16-core cables


----------



## archdawg

PhonoPhi said:


> Unfortunately, ZSA and CCA C04 use a special cable (looks like type B, but a bit smaller).
> ZSA seems to be a dead branch of KZ evolution...



I'm using my ZSA on a NiceHCK 8-core cable with standard 2 pin (0.75mm) connectors without any probs whatsoever.




 



nxnje said:


> I miss ZSA in my collection.
> Do you think it's a piece which is good to get?
> Do you think i should



No idea what you _should_ do but I like those tiny puppies quite a bit. Sure you could get something like the ZSN (Pro) or whatever for about the same money but I wouldn't want to miss the ZSA in my (non-)collection for their unique sound sig. BTW, their build quality is just amazing.


----------



## igorneumann

PhonoPhi said:


> BA10, as long as the fit is not an issue. The same drivers etc but a bit more resonant and coherent.
> Then I very much agree AS10 is really nice.



BA10 look like a ergonomic nightmare... I cant stand the ZS6 i own, so never looked twice at it.



PhonoPhi said:


> Unfortunately, ZSA and CCA C04 use a special cable (looks like type B, but a bit smaller).
> ZSA seems to be a dead branch of KZ evolution...



How is that? Does it changed?

I have one from when they launched and the only weird thing I had was that its connector was loose (it kept falling from the connector).
I then pressed a standard Paragraph B adapter pin's tip with a plier and still using it since then.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

HungryPanda said:


> As much as I really like the ZS10 Pro I am listening to the AS06 a lot at the moment. They have a very laid back sound which is great for acoustic music


As a laidback KZ iem (with realy soft treble), I know only ZS10-new revision. 
I'm waiting for AS10 and hope, they are too.
According to phonograph.net frequency graph AS12 isn't laidback at all.
What about BA10? Are they? Or any other tips? Thanks.


----------



## Wiljen

For anyone else who was told the CCA A10 and Tripowin TP10 were different tunings...    These measurements were done on my rig 17 days apart so are not even done back to back and were not tweaked in any way to tighten up the graph.  They were level matched only in the fact that the input level is set on the measurement rig to be constant so differences in amplitude would be visible.     I would argue that other than the name on the shell, no differences exist in the two.  I should have the KZ and KBear versions shortly to overlay too and see if all 4 are indeed clones or if any tuning variances exist on any of them.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Wiljen said:


> For anyone else who was told the CCA A10 and Tripowin TP10 were different tunings...    These measurements were done on my rig 17 days apart so are not even done back to back and were not tweaked in any way to tighten up the graph.  They were level matched only in the fact that the input level is set on the measurement rig to be constant so differences in amplitude would be visible.     I would argue that other than the name on the shell, no differences exist in the two.  I should have the KZ and KBear versions shortly to overlay too and see if all 4 are indeed clones or if any tuning variances exist on any of them.



Yikes! Those graphs are kinda scary to me. Lots -o- treble.


----------



## Light - Man

shockdoc said:


> Wow, thanks so much for the awesome comparison. One last question. How do they compare as far as isolation? TIA


Hey Doc, just go for the Tin T3 and return it if it disappoints you.

I also reckon on balance that the T3 is a step up to the KZ ZS10 Pro. It has an overall coherence and refinement that makes it special.  Isolation is good, I use foam tips (NewBee and Flare).

The cable is really nice and does not tangle easily like the 10 Pro.The T3 never loses composure and has little if any coloration. The T3 sounds like an open back where the 10 pro can get a bit congested/ muddled with the bass drifting into the mids on occasions. The T3 seems to benefit from extended burn-in time. On a few occasions the T3 can show up a tinge of harshness in the treble but that is just a side effect of a revealing treble.


----------



## Wiljen

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yikes! Those graphs are kinda scary to me. Lots -o- treble.



They both earn an "avoid" in my book unless you just love a bright treble.


----------



## nxnje

PhonoPhi said:


> ZSA and C04 are cheerfully V-shaped. ZSN and ZSN Pro largely superseded them my sound, to my ears. Though the difference is not drastic, and some may still prefer ZSA for its energetic signature, C04 is a bit more refined.
> 
> ZSA may me advantageous for small ears (really nice shell but a bit loose for me).
> 
> ...


It'a about the little shell i'm thinking, i think i could like them.



HungryPanda said:


> As much as I really like the ZS10 Pro I am listening to the AS06 a lot at the moment. They have a very laid back sound which is great for acoustic music


I have the AS06 but i feel better chosing the CCA A10 if i want a complete BA experience.



archdawg said:


> No idea what you _should_ do but I like those tiny puppies quite a bit. Sure you could get something like the ZSN (Pro) or whatever for about the same money but I wouldn't want to miss the ZSA in my (non-)collection for their unique sound sig. BTW, their build quality is just amazing.



Do you own ZS7 or ZS6? could you make a comparison between the ZSA and one of the two? I own a ZSN Pro but i prefer my ZS10 so i'm just making a gift to my little cousin with the ZSN Pro.


----------



## igorneumann

I have the ZSA and ZS6.

The ZS6 clearly sounds better but its a model I never recommend because its a ergonomic nightmare, so I never recommend them

The ZSA doesnt have this prpblem but its bass never convinced me.

I prefer the ZSN Pro or a TRN V80 that have a similar driver configuration than the ZS6, is way cheaper and its finish is top notch.



archdawg said:


> I'm using my ZSA on a NiceHCK 8-core cable with standard 2 pin (0.75mm) connectors without any probs whatsoever.
> 
> 
> 
> No idea what you _should_ do but I like those tiny puppies quite a bit. Sure you could get something like the ZSN (Pro) or whatever for about the same money but I wouldn't want to miss the ZSA in my (non-)collection for their unique sound sig. BTW, their build quality is just amazing.



Even with a defective (loose) connector, I 2nd the amazing build quality...

But its song signature never convinced me, but now I wanna give it a 2nd chance.


nxnje said:


> It'a about the little shell i'm thinking, i think i could like them.
> 
> 
> I have the AS06 but i feel better chosing the CCA A10 if i want a complete BA experience.
> ...


----------



## Caipirina

So, has no one ordered / received the AS12 yet? Came back checking to see if there is any reason why I need to get them


----------



## mbwilson111

Caipirina said:


> So, has no one ordered / received the AS12 yet? Came back checking to see if there is any reason why I need to get them



There is never a rational reason


----------



## groucho69

mbwilson111 said:


> There is never a rational reason



Rational...and this hobby? *ROFLMAO*


----------



## Coldheart29 (Jul 16, 2019)

So, i noticed that the ZST colorfull (or PRO, or whatever you want to call it :V) was available on amazon for 15 buck. I decided to get it, since this way it'll be in my hand by next week.
By buying it i'll be able to have an idea of it's sound, and, other than deciding if i like it or not, i will have a point of reference when reading review or asking about other KZ models. And the ZST look really cool, which is never a bad thing .
And if i end up really not liking them, i can always return them thanks to amazon's return policy.


So, thanks for all the answers (and don't get mad if i ended up not taking most of your advice in the end  ), but expect me to come here every now and thene asking questions about even more KZ models, i'm going back to the good old addition for earbuds!


----------



## igorneumann

You will not return it, dont worry.

ZST is a great model, the one that made me buy many others, just there are other better models around as KZ came a long way since the ZST.



Coldheart29 said:


> So, i noticed that the ZST colorfull (or PRO, or whatever you want to call it :V) was available on amazon for 15 buck. I decided to get it, since this way it'll be in my hand by next week.
> By buying it i'll be able to have an idea of it's sound, and, other than deciding if i like it or not, i will have a point of reference when reading review or asking about other KZ models. And the ZST look really cool, which is never a bad thing .
> And if i end up really not liking them, i can always return them thanks to amazon's return policy.
> 
> ...


----------



## Coldheart29

igorneumann said:


> You will not return it, dont worry.
> 
> ZST is a great model, the one that made me buy many others, just there are other better models around as KZ came a long way since the ZST.



Yeah, that's what i think too. I'm not really after the last shiny thing, and right now i just need something cheaper to use on the bike and when i want a different sound sig than that of the monk+ or the 100aap, and from what i've read around the ZST might very well be the one i'm looking for. And i will no doubt be getting many more KZ earbuds (and a few cabels too, that i'm sure of :V), i'm a collector at heart, and these eabuds are dirt cheap in most cases, so KZ is just inviting me to catch 'em all!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ZST busted my chifi cherry. It has been all downhill since. That catch em all attitude is very dangerous.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 16, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> If it fits an ED16 it will fit a ZSA.  I am using the stock cable from my husbands ZSA on my ED16 because I like the angled connector but the B will not fit.


I found my ZSA cable secretly hiding on my ES4. Oddly enough, the right side fits it but the left doesnt. My ZSA cable has been found! Thanks, everyone.
Now I just need to find my ED16 cable...


----------



## pbui44

For those who want to test out your KZs for rediscovering some Italo Disco:


----------



## nxnje

igorneumann said:


> I have the ZSA and ZS6.
> 
> The ZS6 clearly sounds better but its a model I never recommend because its a ergonomic nightmare, so I never recommend them
> 
> ...



I have both: V80s are super sharp, while ZSN Pro have a timbre i do not like.
ZS6 was my favourite until i returned it to amazon because of strange things happening with the drivers (volume loss, l-r problems and so on)


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

xxAMAROKxx said:


> As a laidback KZ iem (with realy soft treble), I know only ZS10-new revision.
> I'm waiting for AS10 and hope, they are too.
> According to phonograph.net frequency graph AS12 isn't laidback at all......


Wow What? AS10 sounds insanly good. I don't understant that, what will I do with $300 iem now ....


----------



## archdawg (Jul 17, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Do you own ZS7 or ZS6? could you make a comparison between the ZSA and one of the two?


Sorry for the late reply.
I own the ZS6 (three pairs, different versions), ZS7 (one of my favs), ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc...
As to comparisons between different KZ hybrids, it's not that easy (anymore) since all of them sport one or two 39005 BAs and there seem to exist different versions of those armatures - older standard Bellsings and one (or more?) newer, customized KZ versions that sound distinctively different and so there exist different versions of at least the KZ6, but the same could be true for other KZ hybrids as well. Then there are the passive crossovers and KZ could change components (resistors, capacitors) without further notice - e.g. my relatively new 7 don't sound as dark or warm to my ears as most reviews have painted them, they're about as bright and close to neutral as my ZS10 Pro.
With that being said a comparison in short doesn't make too much sense to me but to my ears the ZS7 definitely play in a league above the ZS6 in almost all regards except for the beautiful airy spaciousness and more extended treble especially of the older 6. The ZSA have the tightest space of the 3, but surprising depth. Bass wise the ZSA are closer to the 6, to my ears the 7 kill both with their fast, dry rendering and almost no bleed into the lower mids. As to the rest please have a look at some other, more extended reviews - I like each one of these 3 phones with the 7 being my favorites but the ZSA get enough playtime as well.
Hope that helps a bit.


----------



## nxnje

archdawg said:


> Sorry for the late reply.
> I own the ZS6 (three pairs, different versions), ZS7 (one of my favs), ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, etc...
> As to comparisons between different KZ hybrids, it's not that easy (anymore) since all of them not only sport one or two 39005 BAs but there seem to exist different versions of those armatures - older standard Bellsings and one (or more?) newer, customized KZ versions that sound distinctively different to some folks.
> A comparison in short doesn't make too much sense to me but to my ears the ZS7 definitely play in a league above the ZS6 in almost all regards except for the beautiful airy spaciousness and more extended treble especially of the older 6. The ZSA have the tightest space of the 3, but surprising depth. Bass wise the ZSA are closer to the 6, to my ears the 7 kills both with its fast, dry rendering and almost no bleed into the lower mids.
> Hope that helps a bit.


Thanks for your feedback.
Anyway, i feel the ZS7 is very good but i really miss the open feeling of the ZS6.
It is like the ZS7 is the closed version of the ZS6
Warm closed vs open and brilliant

Two different iems with great technical ability.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

nxnje said:


> Thanks for your feedback.
> Anyway, i feel the ZS7 is very good but i really miss the open feeling of the ZS6.
> It is like the ZS7 is the closed version of the ZS6
> Warm closed vs open and brilliant
> ...


Maybe due to Z7's rolled of treble, I hear a little peak somewhere at mid-hight.


----------



## nxnje

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Maybe due to Z7's rolled of treble, I hear a little peak somewhere at mid-hight.


ZS7 definitely has edgy upper midrange, but i would say a big "thanks" as it would have been almost "dark".


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Now I just need to find my ED16 cable...



No need to find the stock ED16 cable.  It is horrible.  Not ergonomic at all.


----------



## Podster

My fellow KZ brothers & Sisters please put on your favorite KZ's and celebrate one of the all time greats as we have lost a special light in the world of music


----------



## Coldheart29

Oh, i have anouther question: How are KZ's eartips? good enough or do i need to get some aftermarket onese? And if that's the case, whats the stem size on the ZST?
Haven't been able to find the last info.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Coldheart29 said:


> Oh, i have anouther question: How are KZ's eartips? good enough or do i need to get some aftermarket onese? And if that's the case, whats the stem size on the ZST?
> Haven't been able to find the last info.



Some love em, some hate em. I'm in the love camp having bought another ten or so sets separately to use on other products. You'll have to decide for yourself. 

The ZST stem is around 5mm in diameter (excluding the lip which adds another 1mm or so to the width), and around 10mm long. Someone with something more precise than a beat up old tape measure will have to provide more accurate measurements, lol.


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 17, 2019)

Coldheart29 said:


> Oh, i have anouther question: How are KZ's eartips? good enough or do i need to get some aftermarket onese? And if that's the case, whats the stem size on the ZST?
> Haven't been able to find the last info.



You will not be able to find an answer for the 1st question, as some will swear they are trash while others will say they are fine.

Im in the "its fine" crowd, and my recommendation is to try it for yourself.

Does the bass improves when you press it harder to your ear?  Thats a sign the isolation isnt right, try other sizes or other tips.

Is it uncomfortable? Same thing.

Thats basically its job, to keep the limited soundwaves such small device can generate moving your eardrum and preventing the outside sound to reach it while keeping it reasonably comfy.

THAT said, eartips can affect the sound, mainly the bass, so worth trying tifferent types.

For my experience double spinfit improves isolation and help keep them in place while memory foam improves comfort.

I use KZ tips in almost all of them except the ZS6 (memory foam because of the nightmarish ergonomics) and in the es4 (Spinfit, it kept moving and leaking sound)

In a Nutshell, every IEM is different as well as every ear, there is no universal answer.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

This graph by https://www.antdroid.net/2019/07/knowledge-zenith-zs7-review.html represents the ZS7's sound I hear:


----------



## steviewonderbread

xxAMAROKxx said:


> This graph by https://www.antdroid.net/2019/07/knowledge-zenith-zs7-review.html represents the ZS7's sound I hear:


That bass response definitely makes these a bit "boomy" compared to the ZS10 Pro, which is about 7-8 dB lower if my memory serves right. I find myself enjoying both pairs, however, depending on the genre.


----------



## Coldheart29

igorneumann said:


> You will not be able to find an answer for the 1st question, as some will swear they are trash while others will say they are fine.
> 
> Im in the "its fine" crowd, and my recommendation is to try it for yourself.
> 
> ...



Yeah, mostly concerned about if they're floppy AF or tend to fall apart in no time, but i've lived with any kind of cheapo earphone eartips before, so as long as they are somewhat usable i'm fine. Quality of sound would be on a totally personal level.


----------



## igorneumann

Coldheart29 said:


> Yeah, mostly concerned about if they're floppy AF or tend to fall apart in no time, but i've lived with any kind of cheapo earphone eartips before, so as long as they are somewhat usable i'm fine. Quality of sound would be on a totally personal level.



Oh, in that aspect, they are very good not too floppy and very durable.


----------



## Coldheart29

igorneumann said:


> Oh, in that aspect, they are very good not too floppy and very durable.


Nice, won't have to buy tips in advance then, i'll just try them and see if i'm comfortable with them (but i'm usually not particularlydemanding in that regard).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> No need to find the stock ED16 cable.  It is horrible.  Not ergonomic at all.


Ergonomic... ? What are the specific issues?


----------



## Deveraux

I'm looking for a Bluetooth cable for my zs7. the 5.0 version doesn't seem to come in the A type pin. any other suggestion? pref: should be cheap. 15$ ish~.

if not a type c cable with mic would do too. but even that is not available it seems


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 18, 2019)

The ZSA is one of the best KZ's! It's natural sounding and bright/musical. I like it better then the ZSN as it holds a classic (oldish) sound that many other models do not.

If you don't have it... it's a must for your collection. Get it before its discontinued!


----------



## Mlaihk

Is there a 1DD/5BA coming from KZ?  Any details?


----------



## igorneumann

Deveraux said:


> I'm looking for a Bluetooth cable for my zs7. the 5.0 version doesn't seem to come in the A type pin. any other suggestion? pref: should be cheap. 15$ ish~.
> 
> if not a type c cable with mic would do too. but even that is not available it seems



You mean the APTX-HD one?

I bought one and it had loads of background noise and it sounded awful, the seller (CCA official store) confirmed they are having problems with those and sent me a regular APTX as replacement.

MAYBE they fixed, maybe still broken, that said, EVERY SINGLE bluetooth adapter from KZ I own are different from one another.

I have them with cable too short, cable too long, controls on the left, controls on the right, etc.

I USUALLY recomment the TRN BT03 but they don't have straight pins, neither... But PIZEN make some adapters with a shorter straight connector so they fit well on both A and B, but they are usually more expensive.

I guess you should get the regiular KZ APTX one, in the end.


----------



## pumin (Jul 18, 2019)

thank you , then I probably get regular apt-x  for now.

I notice   TRN BT3S  and BT20S  just came out.   Should I get one of them in 2-pin 0.75 version for my ZS7 ?


----------



## baskingshark

Mlaihk said:


> Is there a 1DD/5BA coming from KZ?  Any details?



https://www.facebook.com/KZEarphones/photos/a.509639299467181/708873412877101/?type=3&theater

It's called the KZ terminator or something like that.
Lately, I am getting very confused as KZ and its subsidiaries CCA/Tripowin (and ?Kbear - are they a KZ subsidiary or just borrowing their shell/drivers?) are churning out multi hybrid/BA IEMs almost every few weeks. Some seem to me to have exactly the same sound signature with just different branding and shells. I'm satisfied with my KZ ZS10 Pro for now, probably won't be jumping to any KZ products for the near future unless they have stellar reviews or prove to not be a sidegrade of their current lineup.


----------



## Mybutthurts

New colour plates for the ZS10 Pro.

https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1151701028548444160?s=19


----------



## igorneumann

pumin said:


> thank you , then I probably get regular apt-x  for now.
> 
> I notice   TRN BT3S  and BT20S  just came out.   Should I get one of them in 2-pin 0.75 version for my ZS7 ?



I have the BT3 and the BT10, I think the BT3s is the APTX version using the BT10 chip...

With the BT10 I have a couple of problems, loads of background noise in the TRN V80 (just in this model, with this adapter, its unusable) and it doesnt connect automatically, I need to tap it on the cellphone's BT menu in order to connect.

No idea about the BT20S but I wanna try them also.


----------



## pumin

igorneumann said:


> I have the BT3 and the BT10, I think the BT3s is the APTX version using the BT10 chip...
> 
> With the BT10 I have a couple of problems, loads of background noise in the TRN V80 (just in this model, with this adapter, its unusable) and it doesnt connect automatically, I need to tap it on the cellphone's BT menu in order to connect.
> 
> No idea about the BT20S but I wanna try them also.



Thank you again for your insight.  so after collecting information, I'm gonna order BT20S w/ 0.75 2-pin version, and let's see.


----------



## richario (Jul 18, 2019)

pumin said:


> thank you , then I probably get regular apt-x  for now.
> 
> I notice   TRN BT3S  and BT20S  just came out.   Should I get one of them in 2-pin 0.75 version for my ZS7 ?


I have used Trn BT20 with KZ AS10 for my daily driver since the AS10 launched. I just got KZ ZS7 and Trn BT20S in the sales, and am enjoying both combinations. I'd heartily recommend the BT20S, they seem to have fixed the issues with the BT20 like the loose charge port/button issue. The new version is rock solid connection wise, has ample power and sounds good with a low noise floor. You can also use them one at a time as they power on and off separately. I also like that they fit securely for activity, you'd have to work pretty hard to make one fall off! I haven't used wires on any of my collection since I got the original BT20, and the new model is just a little better again in every area. Also some sort of IP rating which is a bonus and a better feeling plastic. Love this combo with my Sony Z5 compact, no cables in my foreseeable future!


----------



## igorneumann

richario said:


> I have used Trn BT20 with KZ AS10 for my daily driver since the AS10 launched. I just got KZ ZS7 and Trn BT20S in the sales, and am enjoying both combinations. I'd heartily recommend the BT20S, they seem to have fixed the issues with the BT20 like the loose charge port/button issue. The new version is rock solid connection wise, has ample power and sounds good with a low noise floor. You can also use them one at a time as they power on and off separately. I also like that they fit securely for activity, you'd have to work pretty hard to make one fall off! I haven't used wires on any of my collection since I got the original BT20, and the new model is just a little better again in every area. Also some sort of IP rating which is a bonus and a better feeling plastic. Love this combo with my Sony Z5 compact, no cables in my foreseeable future!



Does the BT20 requires you to charge them separately or there is any sort of dock/Y cable that came with them?


----------



## maxxevv

igorneumann said:


> Does the BT20 requires you to charge them separately or there is any sort of dock/Y cable that came with them?



The BT20 comes with a split micro-usb charging cable. It allows you to connect up both modules and charge them at the same time.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mybutthurts said:


> New colour plates for the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1151701028548444160?s=19



Now I am finally tempted to get a ZS10 pro.... in that color... or, maybe they could do a nice bright royal purple face plate.

I don't see any sellers yet with this new one with the blue plate.


----------



## BrunoC

And how about a plain BLACK ZS10 Pro? Not shiny of course.
A brass silver would be nice too...


----------



## moisespr123

I'd love to see if the KZ Terminator could beat my Hidizs MS4 which I now use. Going back to the ZS10 Pro I feel the sound is artificial.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Anyone else get a message from NICEHCK about their new NX7?


----------



## nraymond

CardigdanWalk said:


> Anyone else get a message from NICEHCK about their new NX7?



Yes, looks interesting. **** is the only multi-driver earphone with a piezo driver that I thought was tuned ok. Hopefully NiceHCK has figured it out with the NX7.


----------



## BrunoC

nraymond said:


> Yes, looks interesting. **** is the only multi-driver earphone with a piezo driver that I thought was tuned ok. Hopefully NiceHCK has figured it out with the NX7.



Actually I think the Artiste DC1 is well tuned, with more accent on bass than the ****. It seems forgotten in this forum...


----------



## mbwilson111

nraymond said:


> Yes, looks interesting. **** is the only multi-driver earphone with a piezo driver that I thought was tuned ok. Hopefully NiceHCK has figured it out with the NX7.



Did you try the Artiste DC1 or the Tunai Piano'?   Both excellent in my opinion.

Then there is the R1 Zenith with its  Gen II 14mm driver featuring uprated Neodymium motors with beryllium diaphragm + Piezo Ceramic driver.  A bit pricey though.  I only have it because the first batch was out of phase, and replacements were sent to the buyers (HungryPanda, who was not required to return the defective one.)   So I have the defective one but the phase problem is fixed by just turning the cable around on one of the ear pieces.  I just can't use a cable with molded ear guides.


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 18, 2019)

BrunoC said:


> Actually I think the Artiste DC1 is well tuned, with more accent on bass than the ****. It seems forgotten in this forum...


+1 for the DC1. And then there are the Elecom CB1000, Tunai Piano, Rosewill EX500, LZ A6 and high end ones from Noble and Hyla!


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 18, 2019)

And this one:
https://www.headfonia.com/review-radius-hp-twf41-all-for-the-music/


----------



## shockdoc

I have a question about these BT adaptors everyone is talking about. Since they're wireless how do we know how many cores the air between the source and the BT receivers has? And can I enhance their sound by treating the actual air? I know a lot of fancy wire is supposedly oxygen-free so would I get better sound if I sat in an oxygen-free chamber of some sort whilst listening to my music? TIA  ;-P


----------



## BadReligionPunk

BrunoC said:


> Actually I think the Artiste DC1 is well tuned, with more accent on bass than the ****. It seems forgotten in this forum...


 Oh! I forgot about those.


----------



## Slater (Jul 18, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Lately, I am getting very confused as KZ and its subsidiaries CCA/Tripowin (and ?Kbear - are they a KZ subsidiary or just borrowing their shell/drivers?) are churning out multi hybrid/BA IEMs almost every few weeks.



I’m fairly certain *KB* Ear is *K*in*b*oofi.

KB Ear simply sub-contracted with KZ to have their name and logo on the IEM and packaging. Not that there’s anything wrong with that; lots of companies do that in every industry, from cars to frozen foods.


----------



## muths66

Does zs10 pro share the same cable as zs10?
If i already have zs10 is it better to skip zs10 pro?


----------



## DynamicEars

muths66 said:


> Does zs10 pro share the same cable as zs10?
> If i already have zs10 is it better to skip zs10 pro?



similar cable with different connector (ZS10 pro use para C type like ZSN)
ZS10 PRO is very different from regular ZS10, they can just use entirely new name because they're just different. Only same configuration 1DD+4 BAs.


----------



## mbwilson111

DynamicEars said:


> similar cable with different connector (ZS10 pro use para C type like ZSN)
> ZS10 PRO is very different from regular ZS10, they can just use entirely new name because they're just different. Only same configuration 1DD+4 BAs.



Yes they should have had a completely new name for it.


----------



## nraymond

mbwilson111 said:


> Did you try the Artiste DC1 or the Tunai Piano'?   Both excellent in my opinion.
> 
> Then there is the R1 Zenith with its  Gen II 14mm driver featuring uprated Neodymium motors with beryllium diaphragm + Piezo Ceramic driver.  A bit pricey though.  I only have it because the first batch was out of phase, and replacements were sent to the buyers (HungryPanda, who was not required to return the defective one.)   So I have the defective one but the phase problem is fixed by just turning the cable around on one of the ear pieces.  I just can't use a cable with molded ear guides.



I haven't tried those three, glad to hear other companies have done good piezo implementations. My most recent experience (other than the ****) was with the Elecom EHP-R/CB1000RD (pretty "meh" by my standards), and one other make/model which I can't recall at the moment.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jul 18, 2019)

Slater said:


> I’m fairly certain *KB* Ear is *K*in*b*oofi.
> 
> KB Ear simply sub-contracted with KZ to have their name and logo on the IEM and packaging. Not that there’s anything wrong with that; lots of companies do that in every industry, from cars to frozen foods.


Wendy, from KB Ear wrote to me by email stating, and I quote, ..."KB is the abbreviation of American professional basketball player Kobe Bryant, our boss is a fan of Kobe Bryant.
And our online website is http://www.kb-ear.com/." ...unquote.

I don't know if this makes any difference with all the similar earphones going around, but just thought I'll pass this along. 

She sent me a KB10 for review, so I'll know more about the similarities once I get to them.


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> Wendy, from KB Ear wrote to me by email stating, and I quote, ..."KB is the abbreviation of American professional basketball player Kobe Bryant, our boss is a fan of Kobe Bryant.
> And our online website is http://www.kb-ear.com/." ...unquote.
> 
> I don't know if this makes any difference with all the similar earphones going around, but just thought I'll pass this along.
> ...



Ok, I guess the person who told me it was the Kinboofi people was wrong.

Thanks for clearing it up.


----------



## NeonHD (Jul 18, 2019)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Anyone else get a message from NICEHCK about their new NX7?



Lol I did too, that's how I got here lol. He also said that a senior head-fi member tested it out, I wonder who may that be... 

Edit: Oh it's Dsnuts


----------



## steviewonderbread

muths66 said:


> Does zs10 pro share the same cable as zs10?
> If i already have zs10 is it better to skip zs10 pro?


IMO the only reason to skip the zs10 pro is if you already have several zs10 pros


----------



## PhonoPhi

NeonHD said:


> Lol I did too, that's how I got here lol. He also said that a senior head-fi member tested it out, I wonder who may that be...
> 
> Edit: Oh it's Dsnuts



For the starters, I am curious of the count: 1 piezo, 4 BAs and then a DD is enthusiastically counted as "double"?


----------



## Slater (Jul 18, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> For the starters, I am curious of the count: 1 piezo, 4 BAs and then a DD is enthusiastically counted as "double"?



I assume they are referring to a double dynamic driver, which are 2 dynamic drivers arranged coaxially in the same driver package (for example a 9mm and 7mm driver). There’s a few different designs - some share the same voice coils, some don’t, some are arranged as a push-pull, etc.

Many IEMs use them, and they have advantages over single dynamic drivers. TinAudio T2 is one of many examples.




This 1More page explains them in straightforward terms:

https://usa.1more.com/products/1more-stylish-dual-dynamic-in-ear-headphones


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 18, 2019)

Slater said:


> I assume they are referring to a double dynamic driver, which are 2 dynamic drivers arranged coaxially in the same driver package (for example a 9mm and 7mm driver). There’s a few different designs - some share the same voice coils, some don’t, some are arranged as a push-pull, etc.
> 
> Many IEMs use them, and they have advantages over single dynamic drivers. TinAudio T2 is one of many examples.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the great answer.
You are very helpful as always!

Looking briefly over the NX7 design, I could not discern two separate drivers, while the DD in ZS10 pro refers to as "double magnetic" - hence my pointed question.


----------



## Slater (Jul 18, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Thank you for the great answer.
> You are very helpful as always!
> 
> Looking briefly over the NX7 design, I could not discern two separate drivers, while DD in ZS19 pro refers to as "double magnetic" - hence my pointed question.



Well, “double magnetic” is a different term that gets thrown around lately. It _usually_ refers to a magnet of double the strength of most similar magnets (which approach or even exceed 1.0 Tesla).

Or it could also be referring to a double dynamic driver that actually has 2 separate voice coils and 2 separate magnets.

So you can have a single dynamic driver with a “double (strength) magnet”, a double dynamic driver with a regular magnet, or even a double dynamic driver with 2 actual physically separate magnets haha

Also, some people refer to double dynamic drivers as DD (ie *D*ouble *D*ynamic). And I’ve seen others refer to DD as *D*ynamic *D*river. So when you see “1xDD”, it might be referring to 1 double dynamic driver, or it might be referring to 1 single dynamic driver.

Is your head spinning yet?

It gets even more confusing when you add in the fact that some Chinglish translations often gets lost. PLUS the fact that some companies embellish stuff.

So sometimes it’s really anyone’s guess what the heck is inside lol

Like this nugget of KZ marketing genius for instance:


I can’t even begin to guess what the hell their marketing guy was trying to covey about the beloved EDR1!


----------



## TechnoidFR

CardigdanWalk said:


> Anyone else get a message from NICEHCK about their new NX7?



Yes it's just ordered ! Good news for 2pin connection.

Oh I just take zs10 ( first version ) with TRN bt20. Real good combo for electronic !

http://www.deezer.com/track/701272872

Very interesting.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> Now I am finally tempted to get a ZS10 pro.... in that color... or, maybe they could do a nice bright royal purple face plate.
> 
> I don't see any sellers yet with this new one with the blue plate.


I have the Pro in the standard silver faceplate and I do like it, but this new blue version looks great too. Me personally, I wouldn't mind a nice green version.


----------



## courierdriver

steviewonderbread said:


> IMO the only reason to skip the zs10 pro is if you already have several zs10 pros


Yup, totally agree! My second set just arrived a couple of days ago. I'm giving them away for a gift at Christmas time, though...along with a JCally upgrade cable, a case to store them in, a couple of rechargeable silica packs, and a 6 pack set of NewBee foam/silicone tips. Someone's getting REAL lucky at "Secret Santa" this year! ZS10 PRO's are legit good. I've got them stuck in my ears more often than any of the other iems I own...even the more expensive ones. Absolutely love them.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

nraymond said:


> **** is the only multi-driver earphone with a piezo driver that I thought was tuned ok.


I think the **** sounds weak and is terrible fitting over all. It's the only model that would not fit my ears.


----------



## nraymond

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think the **** sounds weak and is terrible fitting over all. It's the only model that would not fit my ears.



Bundled tips with the **** are some sort of joke... went through my catalog, and the Final Type E tips work well with the **** I think ("Improvements to bass tones and heightened sound insulation, Reduction of stimulating tones in the high frequency range" according to box copy). Also the **** are heavier than many earphones that shape, and I wasn't able to use some tips not because they sounded bad, but because my left ear canal is ever so slightly larger than my right, and the left **** would slowly slide out of that ear with an eartip that didn't exert enough pressure to stay lodged, which is not a problem I usually experience.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

nraymond said:


> Bundled tips with the **** are some sort of joke... went through my catalog, and the Final Type E tips work well with the **** I think.


I tried all my tips and none of them worked with the ****. I don't own the Final Type E tips. Can they be bought by themselves?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> ZS10 PRO's are legit good. I've got them stuck in my ears more often than any of the other iems I own...even the more expensive ones. Absolutely love them.


Probably because you're now tired of "wasting" money on expensive earphones.


----------



## nraymond

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I tried all my tips and none of them worked with the ****. I don't own the Final Type E tips. Can they be bought by themselves?



I got mine from here, I assume other places must have them too:

https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/final-e-type-eartips-for-earphone


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Probably because you're now tired of "wasting" money on expensive earphones.


Yeah, you're kinda right. I mean, I've never even thought once about plunking down more than $200 CDN on a set of iems. That kinda coin is just outa my means. Three bills is the most I'd ever wager...and even then, it would need to be a $300 item that competes with a double the price item (or more)...and even then, I'd be looking to find it on sale for half off. When the Moondrop Kanas PRO was selling for $179 US, I picked it up for $145 CDN for a 1 month old used set that wasn't even fully broken in yet. Still love them to this day, and don't have any interest in getting the upgrade KXXS. Any shortcomings in them, I can EQ out. Very satisfied. With the ZS10 PRO, I bought these brand new, and loved them, straight outta the box. They only got better the more I broke them in, a cable swap and tip swap. I use a bit of EQ on them too, but for $50 bucks (less now), these are just incredible sounding to my ears. Comfort and fit are stellar for me too...I've listened to them for 3+ hours at a time, and never did I get fatigued or feel that they hurt me after that amount of time. I've actually had to force myself to stop the music, pull them out and go to bed! Two weeks ago, I put them in and started listening to my music library on my SD card, Tidal, and Spotify...and it was 5AM by the time I went to bed. I like them that much. No, they may not be everyone's preferred sound signature, but they sure fit me to a T. Everytime I listen to them, I keep thinking...these cost HOW MUCH!!?? I always come away feeling like I just spent time listening to a set that should be selling for $200-300...or more. Honestly, I want others to know how good these are for the price, which is why I bought another set, plus an upgrade cable, tips and storage case; to give to someone this Christmas. Sure, some have said there are a few shortcomings (ie. brightness, sibalance, etc.) but I have not experienced that enough to a degree that it bothers me. I like the treble detail, the mids don't sound too far back, and the bass is deep, tight and slammin. The music has great energy, which is something I like alot. I don't listen to music to fall asleep; I listen to music to pump me up. Even quieter stuff like Tracy Chapman or some slower Tragically Hip makes me marvel at the superb detail presentation. Acoustic music is rendered with so much detail, depth and realism. Stage is also very good, with enough width and depth to convince me that I'm listening to a decent set of speakers. If I had to give up all my other iems and headphones, and keep just one set to hook up to my Fiio Q1MK2 via 2.5 balanced output via USB output from my phone, I'd take the KZ ZS10 PRO, hands down. I never feel like I'm missing anything with this set. My KPE is still my baby, but the TFZ NO.3 is a very distant 3rd right now. ZS10 PRO is an exceptional all rounder, imho.


----------



## courierdriver

nraymond said:


> I got mine from here, I assume other places must have them too:
> 
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/final-e-type-eartips-for-earphone


Yeah, this is the only store I've found that would ship them to Canada. I still wouldn't mind having a set, but I'm not sure what size I should order, since my favorite most comfortable tips so far  have been Newbee foam tips. I also have Spinfits CP145 (2 sets of medium, 1 set large) but only the large sound any good, and only with one set of iems I own (TFZ No.3). Never been a big fan of silicone...just can't seem to get the isolation to bring out the bass. That's why I love the Newbee foams so much. Still, I've heard alot of great things about the Final E tips. If you like silicon tips, these are very highly recd in the forums.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

nraymond said:


> I got mine from here, I assume other places must have them too:
> 
> https://www.mtmtaudio.com/products/final-e-type-eartips-for-earphone


Thanks.  I ordered some BQEYZ tips (no one talks about them?) so maybe they'll work on the ****? I have a feeling my ears are weirdos that need foam tips with the ****.


----------



## NeonHD

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think the **** sounds weak and is terrible fitting over all. It's the only model that would not fit my ears.



It is pretty anemic in the low frequencies.... that is until you finally ditch the stock cable for a nice quality one. An 8-core copper cable drastically brings out the ****'s deep rumbly sub-bass.


----------



## chechu21

I have the first ZSN (Not the pro). I like it the ZS10 Pro. It's a huge improvement?


----------



## citral23

No.

Save your money and get something different (like the 30$ moondrop crescent, or even the 10$ einsear T2), that will be more beneficial to finding what you like in the end. Some people like me have a hard time going back to KZ, TFZ and such once they got a taste of the harman target.


----------



## Mouseman

chechu21 said:


> I have the first ZSN (Not the pro). I like it the ZS10 Pro. It's a huge improvement?


I think the ZS10 Pro is a huge improvement over the "regular" ZSN. It's even a big jump from the ZSN Pro. It's not that expensive, and it's an amazing-sounding IEM.


----------



## citral23 (Jul 19, 2019)

I think what he was asking, is if the ZSN pro was a big improvement over the ZSN, because he likes the ZS10 pro. But I might be wrong. And people should really stop saying KZs sound "amazing" they don't. They are pretty good value for the price, but the mids are really not great and the bass definition is very meh.


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> No.
> 
> Save your money and get something different (like the 30$ moondrop crescent, or even the 10$ einsear T2), that will be more beneficial to finding what you like in the end. Some people like me have a hard time going back to KZ, TFZ and such once they got a taste of the harman target.



As I have the others that you mentioned (and more) I will wait and get a ZS10 Pro when and if they offer it with a shiny deep purple faceplate... at a very low cost of course.

Maybe someone from KZ reads this thread and a purple faceplate will be made.   Actually I like how some companies let you change the faceplate to another color by including several faceplates and a little screwdriver.


----------



## DynamicEars

citral23 said:


> I think what he was asking, is if the ZSN pro was a big improvement over the ZSN, because he likes the ZS10 pro. But I might be wrong. And people should really stop saying KZs sound "amazing" they don't. They are pretty good value for the price, but the mids are really not great and the bass definition is very meh.



They're amazing for the price. For budget up to $50, they are amazing of course. But if put aside the price say up until $3000, is KZ considered amazing? definitely no. And not everybody has chance to listen TOTL iems.


----------



## maxxevv

mbwilson111 said:


> As I have the others that you mentioned (and more) I will wait and get a ZS10 Pro when and if they offer it with a shiny deep purple faceplate... at a very low cost of course.
> 
> Maybe someone from KZ reads this thread and a purple faceplate will be made.   Actually I like how some companies let you change the faceplate to another color by including several faceplates and a little screwdriver.



I thought you could always apply some translucent nail polish of the desired colour shade ?


----------



## mbwilson111

maxxevv said:


> I thought you could always apply some translucent nail polish of the desired colour shade ?



I think that would be a mess...and could chip.  I tried coloring the plates of one of  my ZSNs  with a Sharpie but it rubbed off.

KZ just needs to make a purple one.. they can do it!


----------



## citral23

DynamicEars said:


> They're amazing for the price. For budget up to $50, they are amazing of course. But if put aside the price say up until $3000, is KZ considered amazing? definitely no. And not everybody has chance to listen TOTL iems.



I'll argue that from a pure sound perspective, 10$ einsear T2 sound better than 15$ ZSN, and 30$ moondrop crescent sounds whay better than any KZ even the most expensive ones. But you don't get detachable cables etc.

150$ moondrop kanas pro sound immensely better than all KZ combined, lol, and if you got many of them you probably ended up paying more than 150 alltogether. It's ok, to each their own, some prefer to have many ok things rather than 1 great one.

But I digress. Don't get me wrong, I like KZ, they offer value for money (detachable cable, design of ZSN for 15$, decent EQed sound is heard to beat) but let's not overhype them. If you don't actually compare them, you can be happy. Otherwise, it quickly starts to fall apart, especially the mids tonality as I said.


----------



## DynamicEars

citral23 said:


> I'll argue that from a pure sound perspective, 10$ einsear T2 sound better than 15$ ZSN, and 30$ moondrop crescent sounds whay better than any KZ even the most expensive ones. But you don't get detachable cables etc.
> 
> 150$ moondrop kanas pro sound immensely better than all KZ combined, lol, and if you got many of them you probably ended up paying more than 150 alltogether. It's ok, to each their own, some prefer to have many ok things rather than 1 great one.
> 
> But I digress. Don't get me wrong, I like KZ, they offer value for money (detachable cable, design of ZSN for 15$, decent EQed sound is heard to beat) but let's not overhype them. If you don't actually compare them, you can be happy. Otherwise, it quickly starts to fall apart, especially the mids tonality as I said.



Yes correct, ZS10 pro are 1 of amazing for the price, but there are more like my BQEYZ KB100, moondrop crescent yes, I agree about Kanas Pro, even tfz no 3 also sounds better than KZ ZS10 pro for me. I also own all of them. They're not that bad for the price, value wise yes. But if you got more budget to spend, there are a lot more to consider of course.
PS : even though i have so many KZs, im not a fanboy.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Is ZS10 Pro compatible with BT20 wireless?

Thanks


----------



## Slater

citral23 said:


> I'll argue that from a pure sound perspective, 10$ einsear T2 sound better than 15$ ZSN, and 30$ moondrop crescent sounds whay better than any KZ even the most expensive ones. But you don't get detachable cables etc.
> 
> 150$ moondrop kanas pro sound immensely better than all KZ combined, lol, and if you got many of them you probably ended up paying more than 150 alltogether. It's ok, to each their own, some prefer to have many ok things rather than 1 great one.
> 
> But I digress. Don't get me wrong, I like KZ, they offer value for money (detachable cable, design of ZSN for 15$, decent EQed sound is heard to beat) but let's not overhype them. If you don't actually compare them, you can be happy. Otherwise, it quickly starts to fall apart, especially the mids tonality as I said.



We also have to make sure we don’t overhype _not_ overhyping them.

For someone who only has a $20 budget, such as a university student or teenager, name some better options? Not everyone has $150 for a Kansas Pro (which some can argue was overhyped itself).


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Jul 19, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I'll argue that from a pure sound perspective, 10$ einsear T2 sound better than 15$ ZSN, and 30$ moondrop crescent sounds whay better than any KZ even the most expensive ones. But you don't get detachable cables etc.
> 
> 150$ moondrop kanas pro sound immensely better than all KZ combined, lol, and if you got many of them you probably ended up paying more than 150 alltogether. It's ok, to each their own, some prefer to have many ok things rather than 1 great one.
> 
> But I digress. Don't get me wrong, I like KZ, they offer value for money (detachable cable, design of ZSN for 15$, decent EQed sound is heard to beat) but let's not overhype them. If you don't actually compare them, you can be happy. Otherwise, it quickly starts to fall apart, especially the mids tonality as I said.



KZ is absolutely fabulous for entry level Chi-fi as they don't burn a hole in your pockets and give you a taste of what the industry is all about. But as you dig deep into the blackhole, you find there are many doing a fabulous job at an insane value. From what I perceive and I might be wrong as I wasn't even a sperm in the 80s but KZ is this generation's VSonic. Mind-blowing sound at an insane value.


----------



## DynamicEars

CardigdanWalk said:


> Is ZS10 Pro compatible with BT20 wireless?
> 
> Thanks



Yes but be warned that the connector a bit different so they will stick out a bit



Slater said:


> We also have to make sure we don’t overhype _not_ overhyping them.
> 
> For someone who only has a $20 budget, such as a university student or teenager, name some better options? Not everyone has $150 for a Kansas Pro (which some can argue was overhyped itself).



Thats what I was going to say Slater. great for the price..


----------



## Slater (Jul 19, 2019)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Is ZS10 Pro compatible with BT20 wireless?
> 
> Thanks



Define compatible.

The socket on the ZS10 Pro is a KZ 0.75mm 2-pin “Paragraph C type”.

TRN does not follow the KZ A/B/C thing. TRN does their own thing, and they have 1 plug type. It is a 0.75mm 2-pin plug, and it’s kinda a mashup of the size of the KZ A plug with the shape of the B plug.

So if you’re asking if the TRN BT20 is compatible in the regards that it has a Paragraph C plug, then no, it is not compatible.

However, the BT20 has a 2-pin 0.75mm plug, which will connect to the ZS10 Pro and make sound just fine. So in that regard, the BT20 is compatible.

Note that the BT20 plug will stick up on the ZS10 Pro’s raised socket however, which bothers some people but doesn’t bother others. Only you can know if that would bother you or not.

Also, you should be aware that KZ is releasing their own version of the TRN BT20-style adapter. I don’t know when it will be on sale or how much it will cost, but because it’ll be made by KZ you can bet that it will be available with all of the KZ specific ends (A/B/C).


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Slater said:


> Define compatible.
> 
> The socket on the ZS10 Pro is a KZ 0.75mm 2-pin “Paragraph C type”.
> 
> ...



Just to add to @Slater 's points, I'm using BT3 with my ZSN and they fit like hand to glove. Just have to push it slightly but do the job. I've used them for gymming as well and never felt insecure about the fit


----------



## citral23 (Jul 19, 2019)

Slater said:


> We also have to make sure we don’t overhype _not_ overhyping them.
> 
> For someone who only has a $20 budget, such as a university student or teenager, name some better options? Not everyone has $150 for a Kansas Pro (which some can argue was overhyped itself).



Moondrop spaceship for example. Even the Fiio F3 are superb in their own merits. But really it depends what you like, someone who prefers EDM, or say technical death metal could prefer the ZSN with its heavy thump, someone who prefers Jazz and opera would prefer the moondrop I'd think.

I actually still reach for my ZS7 often, when I go for a quick walk with the dog and fire Gojira, to get a "kick". And I get it. But I wouldn't want to listen to them in a 6 hours flight, mids are tiring, there's too much bass overall, it bleeds in the mids etc. But it's fun.

My original comment, was just that when I see people who already own several KZs look forward to adding more of the same to their collection (ZSN pro when they already have ZSN for instance), I strongly recommand experimenting other brands with different sound signatures, because there's really more to it out there, despite the slight variations it's still all v-shaped and similar tone. And there's a lot of marketing to it, like how many BAs do you think is needed to achieve goodness? Owning a terrific, greatly tuned single dynamic driver IEM can help to take a step back about all this race for drivers honestly.


----------



## Slater

citral23 said:


> Owning a terrific, greatly tuned single dynamic driver IEM can help to take a step back about all this race for drivers honestly.



I couldn’t agree more


----------



## PhonoPhi

citral23 said:


> I'll argue that from a pure sound perspective, 10$ einsear T2 sound better than 15$ ZSN, and 30$ moondrop crescent sounds whay better than any KZ even the most expensive ones. But you don't get detachable cables etc.
> 
> 150$ moondrop kanas pro sound immensely better than all KZ combined, lol, and if you got many of them you probably ended up paying more than 150 alltogether. It's ok, to each their own, some prefer to have many ok things rather than 1 great one.
> 
> But I digress. Don't get me wrong, I like KZ, they offer value for money (detachable cable, design of ZSN for 15$, decent EQed sound is heard to beat) but let's not overhype them. If you don't actually compare them, you can be happy. Otherwise, it quickly starts to fall apart, especially the mids tonality as I said.



The very least you have some biased opinion.
I am a bit surprised to see it here in KZ thread.

KZ (& CCA) are great to my ears.
CCA C16 is a way better for me than Fiio F9 pr, for instance.

To answer about KZ ZS10 pro vs. ZSN, 10 pro is more detailed, better faster bass, and definitely it is the same energetic signature.

For twice+ the money, I suggest that it is worth to consider, but the conclusion about " better for the money" is very individual.


----------



## Mouseman

citral23 said:


> I'll argue that from a pure sound perspective, 10$ einsear T2 sound better than 15$ ZSN, and 30$ moondrop crescent sounds whay better than any KZ even the most expensive ones. But you don't get detachable cables etc.
> 
> 150$ moondrop kanas pro sound immensely better than all KZ combined, lol, and if you got many of them you probably ended up paying more than 150 alltogether. It's ok, to each their own, some prefer to have many ok things rather than 1 great one.
> 
> But I digress. Don't get me wrong, I like KZ, they offer value for money (detachable cable, design of ZSN for 15$, decent EQed sound is heard to beat) but let's not overhype them. If you don't actually compare them, you can be happy. Otherwise, it quickly starts to fall apart, especially the mids tonality as I said.


I won't argue that there are more expensive IEMs that sound far better than the KZs, because they do. But the price of the ZS10 Pro versus its performance makes it a great value. And I do think they sound great, particularly when I run them balanced. Even the ZSN Pros sound good, but I'd spend the extra for the ZS10s. I've EQ'd the mids to bring them up a bit, and I'm very happy. Everyone has different tastes, but the KZs are a pretty low spend to try a few different units. But there are other relatively cheap units that also sound good -- heck, the Zircons sound really fun and they're only $10. Are any of these "giant killers"? Nope....I don't think any of those exist. 

I bought the Crescents, and I don't care for them at all -- but that's personal preference. I'm going to burn them in even more and keep trying different tips and see if I hear the magic that everyone else seems to, but I expect that they will be sent to the storage box along with some of the other units I've bought that I don't enjoy (I'm looking right at you, Simgots). Some day I'm going to have to clean out the cabinet since I have already overloaded my friends and family with IEMs that weren't my cup of tea.

I will agree with you on the dynamic drivers. I've tried a bunch of other units, and I don't care as much for the all balanced IEMs -- I like a dynamic driver in the mix. Then again, I haven't heard any of the TOTL ones -- my upper limit is far below the four-figure range.


----------



## citral23 (Jul 19, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> The very least you have some biased opinion.
> I am a bit surprised to see it here in KZ thread.
> 
> KZ (& CCA) are great to my ears.
> ...



Not sure how I'm biased, I'm very much brand an price neutral. I'm biased towards U-shape or even better Harman target rather than v-shape tho, but that's not bias, it's personal preference.

I don't see how the ZS10 pro is an interresting purchase if one owns the ZSN pro already.

Yes the highs are a bit more refined but honestly, it's more of the same, sorry but that's objective, not biased.







As KZ seem to improve greatly on each generation of IEMs (especially on the harshness, altho the ZSN pros they ****ed up compared to original ZSN, which is already impossible to listen to at high levels), I'd advise him to wait for the next generation of KZ tbh so there's more difference to make it worth the purchase hopefully.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 19, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Not sure how I'm biased, I'm very much brand an price neutral. I'm biased towards U-shape or even better Harman target rather than v-shape tho, but that's not bias, it's personal preference.
> 
> I don't see how the ZS10 pro is an interresting purchase if one owns the ZSN pro already.
> 
> ...



The primary dividing preference is DD vs. BAs.
I personally strongly prefer the speed and  agility of BAs - the smoothness and hum of DD is not to my taste.

Then a favourite trait of DD lovers seem to be "the curves" - looking, tasting, listening...

Curves are instructive to consider for what IEMs can do upon a frequency sweep. Then it does not tell the times of responce and decay and crosstalk, which is definitely the case for a single membrane responding to all the range of frequencies at once.

Then understandably more agile ZSN pro vs. ZSN is not to your "dynamic" taste, but generalizing this opinion, especially in a "f-word" form may be a bit ... off...

I personally really love the changes in  CCA CA4 compared to ZSN, they are not drastic to my ears, but exactly in the direction of a more agile response.

ZSN 10 pro offers very nice resolution. I really liked to listen to electric guitars yesterday, but since that is not what I am often listening to, I prefer AS10 and A10 in a similar price range.


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## citral23 (Jul 19, 2019)

BAs have their advantage. Cramming as many low end bas as possible, in an as cheap as possible package, might not be the most "agile" way to represent music even if it sales well. Yes there is much more to the final product than curves, and cheap, harsh sounding, off-tone bas are here to remind us that fact indeed hahaha!

The ZS7 and ZS10 pro are still ok to good iems imo. They're not completely off. There's much worse, for sure. But there's always a "but" with them. Cable, harshness, fatiguing mids, too much bass, everyone has something to say about how they could be improved, and I'm sure you too.

You simply don't feel that you have a premium, mindfully tuned iem in your hands with kz. You might, or might not care. But trying to push them as giant killers is questionable tbh.

The beginning of unbiasing oneself, is to acknowledge that it's all trial and error in this space.

PS the multi bas ZS7 is unable to represent contrabass and trumpet in monk's jackie-ing as "agile" as the kanas pro's single DD. One plays frequencies in a muddy way, the other one instruments, with their touch/material/harmonics.


----------



## PhonoPhi

citral23 said:


> BAs have their advantage. Cramming as many low end bas as possible, in an as cheap as possible package, might not be the most "agile" way to represent music even if it sales well. Yes there is much more to the final product than curves, and cheap, harsh sounding, off-tone bas are here to remind us that fact indeed hahaha!
> 
> The ZS7 and ZS10 pro are still ok to good iems imo. They're not completely off. There's much worse, for sure. But there's always a "but" with them. Cable, harshness, fatiguing mids, too much bass, everyone has something to say about how they could be improved, and I'm sure you too.
> 
> ...



I am not "selling" anything, neither KZ, nor BAs, just counteracting what I feel is not generally true.

I got all my IEMs at full price, as a hobby, exactly for the path of "trial and errors".

After quite a bit of  those "trials and errors", I realized my personal preference for BAs, and even more for the graininess (roughness) of less dampened BAs - to my ears they are the best to reproduce string instruments - how violins or cellos sound in close vicinity (and it is not for everyone).

I absolutely do not want to feel "premium", and especially to unnecessarily pay for it 

All that I need is reliable and cost-effective.  KZ/CCA did it for me, with their prices, I could afford and really enjoyed experiencing their evolution over the last few years. At this point, I do not have resources and motivation to try other IEMs.


----------



## citral23

Curious to what you're listening to? Because to me distorted wall of sound guitars like gojira on their way of the flesh album, sound amazing on ZS7 bas. But when I go back to jazz, there's so much more definition, texture, details and harmonics on the kanas pro, it's not even fair. It's like a headshot. BOOM.

It's nice to be content with what you have, enjoy it. Once you get a taste of 150$ goodness you start to wonder how the 300$ stuff tastes and down the rabbithole you go.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 19, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Curious to what you're listening to? Because to me distorted wall of sound guitars like gojira on their way of the flesh album, sound amazing on ZS7 bas. But when I go back to jazz, there's so much more definition, texture, details and harmonics on the kanas pro, it's not even fair. It's like a headshot. BOOM.
> 
> It's nice to be content with what you have, enjoy it. Once you get a taste of 150$ goodness you start to wonder how the 300$ stuff tastes and down the rabbithole you go.



I listen to classical music predominantly. Love strings (and am fortunate to listen to few violin players at home for live comparison).

I also came to a notion that all the reproduction that is strongly favoured based on some distortions, starting with the lamp amplifiers. So in my limited perception DDs create more overtones/harmonics than it is really there by the virtue of a single membrane not able to reproduce a single frequency/tone without overtones.
To my ears - it is more of a hum, overcrowding, rather than richness, but to each their own.

I did not buy a single IEM over $150 and do not plan to.
I am minimally happy even with KZN, and I am well aware that perfection is not attainable, and the curve of reaching for "more" (gain vs. pain/money/time) is logarithmic


----------



## citral23

PhonoPhi said:


> So in my limited perception DDs create more overtones/harmonics than it is really there by the virtue of a single membrane not able to reproduce a single frequency/tone without overtones.
> To my ears - it is more of a hum, overcrowding, rather than richness, but to each their own



You'd be surprised is all I can say.


----------



## PhonoPhi

citral23 said:


> You'd be surprised is all I can say.


That what they usually say in budget Hollywood movies, and I am a bit past it now


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 19, 2019)

Slater said:


> Define compatible.
> 
> The socket on the ZS10 Pro is a KZ 0.75mm 2-pin “Paragraph C type”.
> 
> ...



I love KZ IEMs but they never really got bluetooth adapters right...

The 1st ones were terrible, the aptx ones I have with cable too short, cable too long, controls on the left, inverted stereo... Then the aptx-hd that sounded really wrong. (The seller even knew of the problem).

Crossing my fingers, anyways.


----------



## Slater

igorneumann said:


> I love KZ IEMs but they never really got bluetooth adapters right...
> 
> The 1st ones were terrible, the aptx ones I have with cable too short, cable too long, controls on the left, inverted stereo... Then the aptx-hd that sounded really wrong. (The seller even knew of the problem).
> 
> Crossing my fingers, anyways.



I agree. I learned my lesson with KZ Bluetooth stuff a long time ago.

Like you said, I'll cross my fingers that KZ gets their act together with the BT20-style adapters. But I would only order it after a load of other people have bought it first and can assure me it's not just another half-baked pre-alpha KZ Bluetooth turd.


----------



## khighly

citral23 said:


> No.
> 
> Save your money and get something different (like the 30$ moondrop crescent, or even the 10$ einsear T2), that will be more beneficial to finding what you like in the end. Some people like me have a hard time going back to KZ, TFZ and such once they got a taste of the harman target.


Why are you in a KZ thread trying to convince people to buy other brands? Your posts are toxic in this thread n my opinion and offer nothing of value to the discussion other than making other people angry. The ZS10 Pro follows the harman target fairly closely?


----------



## citral23

Not true, I said kz are good value and really good for some kinds of music, but there's not much benefit to buying a ZSN pro or even ZS10 pro if you already have a ZSN. He wanted opinions I gave mine, It's one among others, other respectable opinions is that it's worth it. If you want to hear circlejerk kz only opinions I'm sorry to have interrupted you, carry on.


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## Slater (Jul 19, 2019)

khighly said:


> Why are you in a KZ thread trying to convince people to buy other brands?



2 words: Marshall Mode


----------



## citral23 (Jul 19, 2019)

I think this forum and its Marshalls is much more toxic than me tbh.


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## Slater (Jul 19, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I think this forum and their Marshalls is much more toxic than me tbh.



No, Marshall Mode is an old inside joke in this KZ thread.

There was a guy a while back who recommended the ‘Marshall Mode’ model earphone to every single person that asked for any KZ recommendation in this KZ thread.

It was not funny at the time, but it is funny looking back on it.

I’m not saying you’re doing that, so please don’t take offense; I’m just poking fun at the Marshall Mode joke.

Everything you’ve said has been a genuine and valid opinion, and one that people should consider (among other opinions as well). There is definitely more than just KZ earphones out there. It just depends on what each individual’s situation and goals are.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 19, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I think this forum and its Marshalls is much more toxic than me tbh.


Well, you've tried to express your opinion here...


----------



## B9Scrambler

citral23 said:


> I think this forum and its Marshalls is much more toxic than me tbh.



If it's worth anything I don't think you were being toxic. Realistic, but not toxic.


----------



## citral23 (Jul 19, 2019)

To be fair I sounded a bit like trying to promote Dysons on a Xiaomi vacuum cleaners forum heh. I did some A/B again this evening. Gojira and Archspire sound better on the ZS7 by far. Billie Holiday and Thelonious Monk sound better on the kanas pro by far. Everyone will find something that suits them. But owning  more than 2 or 3 kz isn't a great choice imo, no flame intended. There are far worse  ideas than having a few select ones tho. I'll leave you in peace now, cheers.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 19, 2019)

citral23 said:


> To be fair I sounded a bit like trying to promote Dysons on a Xiaomi vacuum cleaners forum heh. I did some A/B again this evening. Gojira and Archspire sound better on the ZS7 by far. Billie Holiday and Thelonious Monk sound better on the kanas pro by far. Everyone will find something that suits them. But owning  more than 2 or 3 kz isn't a great choice imo, no flame intended. There are far worse  a ideas than having a few select ones tho. I'll leave you in peace now, cheers.



Live in peace with your Kanas Pro.
Many may think that it may not be worth its money compared to KZ (especially being discussed in KZ forum), no flame, of course!


----------



## alex5908 (Jul 19, 2019)

Could anybody compare ZS7 and ZS10 Pro using the same song?
I have ZS7 and they say that ZS10Pro have more profound bass and other advantages.


----------



## rayliam80

alex5908 said:


> Could anybody compare ZS7 and ZS10 Pro using the same song?
> I have ZS7 and they say that ZS10Pro have more profound bass and other advantages.



Name a song and I'll do a comparison. As long as it's on Spotify or Tidal.


----------



## alex5908

Just any song in blues rock where all the instruments sound separately (more or less).


----------



## pbui44

alex5908 said:


> Just any song in blues rock where all the instruments sound separately (more or less).



Muddy Waters - Mannish Boy, perhaps?


----------



## pbui44




----------



## alex5908

pbui44 said:


> Muddy Waters - Mannish Boy, perhaps?


Yes, this is absolutely fine.


----------



## Slater

rayliam80 said:


> Name a song and I'll do a comparison. As long as it's on Spotify or Tidal.



4'33" by John Cage


----------



## rayliam80

alex5908 said:


> Just any song in blues rock where all the instruments sound separately (more or less).



Stevie Ray Vaughn - Little Wing (listening through Tidal - Non MQA recording - through the Tidal app)



Just a rough and quick comparison so here it goes:

ZS7 - Drier sounding. Bass guitar more recessed. Guitars a little more forward. Guitar timbre/imaging seems not as good compared to the ZS10 maybe due to it sounding "drier" - slight guitar effects like the touch of reverb are not as noticeable as on the ZS10 Pro. More reserved sounding. 

ZS10 Pro - Better quality bass, between kick drum and bass guitar, better separation. Tom drums sound bigger too. Greater overall bass presence. Guitar feels more dynamic, digs deeper. Cymbals like the ride are more crisp. Wider soundstage. More detailed overall. I can hear the 60hz background hum in the recording track probably from the guitar amp, for example, more clearly. Overall, sounds more lively. 

Ifi Nano BL -> Liquid Spark (low gain mode) -> ZS10 Pro / ZS7 -> Auvio Wide Bore M tips


----------



## rayliam80

Slater said:


> 4'33" by John Cage



The ZS10 Pro really shines when you put all your instruments down and do nothing!


----------



## courierdriver

DynamicEars said:


> They're amazing for the price. For budget up to $50, they are amazing of course. But if put aside the price say up until $3000, is KZ considered amazing? definitely no. And not everybody has chance to listen TOTL iems.


Not to mention, not everyone has the financial means to plop down 4 figures on an iem, that only provides a 20% or less improvement. Some of us still have rent/mortgages to pay, child rearing costs, insurance, vehicle payments, etc, etc. I just don't have the disposable income to warrant spending such huge amounts on an "audio toy". Never have...never will...even if I won big in a lottery. In the 40+ years of being an audiophile, I've always searched out the stuff that is the best bang for my buck, within my budget. The money I save can go towards other, more important things...like child expenses and child education. Income levels and priorities take precedence over material things above all for me. I don't spend much on myself, but once in a while, I do like to treat myself to something related to my greatest passion since I was a child...music, and the good reproduction of it. Nowadays, with technology and global trade, it's possible to obtain much better sound quality, than in the past, at a much more affordable price. I own the ZS10 PRO, and I think it's got all the right stuff. For $100 more, KPE gets you to a greater level. For an extra $250 you can get even better. But after that, I feel the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Spending $1000+ on a set if TOTL iems is just too extravagant to me. If you have the means...then, by all means. Me; I'll stick with my KPE and ZS10 PRO. Love the SQ from both, and don't feel the need to spend thousands more, on some overpriced bull. It's that expensive stuff, that actually drives me away from the hobby. Wish that companies like Campfire, JA Audio, 64 Audio, etc. would get their heads around this. Same goes for many other audio brands that sell headphones, dacs, amps, speakers, etc. that cost more than a months worth of wages. For me, it's the affordable stuff that sounds as good as the non affordable stuff, that will always get my attention.


----------



## DynamicEars

courierdriver said:


> Not to mention, not everyone has the financial means to plop down 4 figures on an iem, that only provides a 20% or less improvement. Some of us still have rent/mortgages to pay, child rearing costs, insurance, vehicle payments, etc, etc. I just don't have the disposable income to warrant spending such huge amounts on an "audio toy". Never have...never will...even if I won big in a lottery. In the 40+ years of being an audiophile, I've always searched out the stuff that is the best bang for my buck, within my budget. The money I save can go towards other, more important things...like child expenses and child education. Income levels and priorities take precedence over material things above all for me. I don't spend much on myself, but once in a while, I do like to treat myself to something related to my greatest passion since I was a child...music, and the good reproduction of it. Nowadays, with technology and global trade, it's possible to obtain much better sound quality, than in the past, at a much more affordable price. I own the ZS10 PRO, and I think it's got all the right stuff. For $100 more, KPE gets you to a greater level. For an extra $250 you can get even better. But after that, I feel the law of diminishing returns kicks in. Spending $1000+ on a set if TOTL iems is just too extravagant to me. If you have the means...then, by all means. Me; I'll stick with my KPE and ZS10 PRO. Love the SQ from both, and don't feel the need to spend thousands more, on some overpriced bull****. It's that expensive stuff, that actually drives me away from the hobby. Wish that companies like Campfire, JA Audio, 64 Audio, etc. would get their heads around this. Same goes for many other audio brands that sell headphones, dacs, amps, speakers, etc. that cost more than a months worth of wages. For me, it's the affordable stuff that sounds as good as the non affordable stuff, that will always get my attention.



Yes Im aware of that my friend, even me, im not a rich person who can afford thousand dollar iems or audio stuff, or like you said willingly to, but yes correct I said for the price $50 KZ ZS10 Pro indeed one of the best for the price, like KP which i also own i consider one of the best around $150. Former conversation was about his opinion about ZS10 pro isnt that amazing, that why I've tried to explain ZS10 Pro is amazing for the price. But if you never consider price, they're not amazing. Thats the point.
For me myself I also never think of buying  thousand dollars iem as I also living with those living cost to pay of course like most of us here. But like you have experience with ZS10 Pro and KP, you got nice improvement but more to the upper class, improvement isnt that big, but more refinement. But if you got the best value iems on upper class, they will be different experience also, like you have step up from ZS10 pro to KP, and you will never go back


----------



## courierdriver

DynamicEars said:


> Yes Im aware of that my friend, even me, im not a rich person who can afford thousand dollar iems or audio stuff, or like you said willingly to, but yes correct I said for the price $50 KZ ZS10 Pro indeed one of the best for the price, like KP which i also own i consider one of the best around $150. Former conversation was about his opinion about ZS10 pro isnt that amazing, that why I've tried to explain ZS10 Pro is amazing for the price. But if you never consider price, they're not amazing. Thats the point.
> For me myself I also never think of buying  thousand dollars iem as I also living with those living cost to pay of course like most of us here. But like you have experience with ZS10 Pro and KP, you got nice improvement but more to the upper class, improvement isnt that big, but more refinement. But if you got the best value iems on upper class, they will be different experience also, like you have step up from ZS10 pro to KP, and you will never go back


I think I kinda get what you're saying, but I still sometimes enjoy certain songs better on certain earphones. Like you, I have KPE and ZS10 PRO. Sometimes I prefer the presentation of certain songs better on KPE than ZS10 PRO...then again, other times I prefer them on the ZS10 PRO  over KPE. I have no problem switching between the 2, and I often feel like I'm getting a better rendition on the cheaper KZ. It all depends on the music, and my mood at any given time. I can't say though, that listening to a more expensive set, makes me want to throw the cheaper set into a drawer and forget about em. At the moment though, I can't say the same for the TFZ NO.3. These, while more than double the cost of the ZS10 PRO, are NOT even in the same ballpark, imho. Cost don't amount to squat! It's all about the execution of the tuning.


----------



## HungryPanda

I can go back and do often. I have some expensive (to me) head gear but sometimes am amazed by good cheap audio products and so enjoy listening to them flaws and all


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> I can go back and do often. I have some expensive (to me) head gear but sometimes am amazed by good cheap audio products and so enjoy listening to them flaws and all


+1! Imho, ZS10 PRO won't be out of my ears for very long. No, they're not perfect, but they have qualities that make them very appealing for me. I think people sometimes do themselves a great injustice by discounting an earphone, just based on price. I used to think "more expensive= better"...but I grew up and experience has taught me that this isn't always the case. "Better" is based on personal preferences and the kinds of musical material you feed the transducer, as well as the tuning of that transducer. Sadly, there is no "one size fits all". The joy of less expensive gear, is that you can experiment and mod to your heart's content, and not have to be too concerned if you accidentally destroy something. If I accidentally break something that costs less than $50, I can replace it. If I break something $150+, I can't afford to easily replace that! And if it costs like $1000+...well, that will never happen. I bought my KZ ZS10 PRO as a cheap daily driver, because I was concerned about taking my KPE, with it's nice aftermarket ISN Audio C16 cable, on the bus. I never in my wildest dreams, ever expected the ZS10 PRO  to sound as good as it does. And if I snap a 2 pin or some other accident happens where I can't save it, I can replace it easily enough. If that happened to my KPE or anything else more expensive, I'd be crying. KZ has some seriously good stuff (my only big gripe is that they sometimes make stuff that's too big to fit in my ears), but they offer alot of options to the standard stuff that comes with a smartphone for example. Seriously...Apple Airpods cost around $169...people buy them like crazy. SQ is subpar imho. OK, they are wireless, but they really don't sound great. For that kinda money, I can think of many more wired options (or even iems connected to a Bluetooth receiver) that sound much better, and for less $.


----------



## alex5908

rayliam80 said:


> ZS7 - Drier sounding. Bass guitar more recessed. More reserved sounding.
> 
> ZS10 Pro - Better quality bass, between kick drum and bass guitar, better separation. Tom drums sound bigger too. Greater overall bass presence. Guitar feels more dynamic, digs deeper. Cymbals like the ride are more crisp. Wider soundstage. More detailed overall. I can hear the 60hz background hum in the recording track probably from the guitar amp, for example, more clearly. Overall, sounds more lively.


Wow, thanks a lot for the comparison.
Definitely I should've bought ZS10Pro but not ZS7.


----------



## Slater (Jul 20, 2019)

rayliam80 said:


> The ZS10 Pro really shines when you put all your instruments down and do nothing!



On that track, the ZS10 Pro are truly TOTL monster killers! I think anyone would agree.

Why spend $2500, when the ZS10 Pro handles that track just as well?

BTW, my favorite part is the third movement at 4:26. Especially when it’s been a stressful day, and everyone is all blah blah blah yapping in my ears. I just put my headphones on and that track is oh so sweet music to my ears


----------



## Nimweth

rayliam80 said:


> The ZS10 Pro really shines when you put all your instruments down and do nothing!


The ZS7 sounds great with this track as well!


----------



## citral23 (Jul 20, 2019)

Slater said:


> Why spend $2500, when the ZS10 Pro handles that track just as well?



Did you actually compare or are you guessing it's just as good?

I see there's a blue plate version of zs10 pro out, it looks quite nice and this iem now ships for 35-37$ on Ali, add an 8 core cable and you have a pretty decent package for 45$.

At 50$ it had serious competition of the bqeyz kb100, but at 35 it's really good imo.

And you can establish a professional standard of listening sense!


----------



## BadReligionPunk




----------



## BadReligionPunk

My Marshall Modes kill that track better then any KZ.


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## mbwilson111 (Jul 20, 2019)

citral23 said:


> Did you actually compare or are you guessing it's just as good?



How familiar are you with that John Cale track?  The man is a genius.  One of my favorite tracks for clearing my mind.


----------



## billbishere

citral23 said:


> Did you actually compare or are you guessing it's just as good?
> 
> I see there's a blue plate version of zs10 pro out, it looks quite nice and this iem now ships for 35-37$ on Ali, add an 8 core cable and you have a pretty decent package for 45$.
> 
> ...


I do like that blue.  The chrome is a finger print magnet


----------



## mbwilson111

billbishere said:


> I do like that blue.  The chrome is a finger print magnet



I am being tempted by that blue.  I already have the nice shiny silver plate on my purple ZSN.


----------



## Makahl

Is there any IRL pic of the ZS10 Pro royal blue? I'm curious about the finishing.


----------



## moisespr123

citral23 said:


> Curious to what you're listening to? Because to me distorted wall of sound guitars like gojira on their way of the flesh album, sound amazing on ZS7 bas. But when I go back to jazz, there's so much more definition, texture, details and harmonics on the kanas pro, it's not even fair. It's like a headshot. BOOM.
> 
> It's nice to be content with what you have, enjoy it. Once you get a taste of 150$ goodness you start to wonder how the 300$ stuff tastes and down the rabbithole you go.



I have the Hidizs MS4. It sounds warm and awesome.

Going back to the ZS10 Pro, the sound sounds artifical, especially those peaks in the highs. MS4 has a more warmer bass and mids response, with clear vocals. 

With the ZS10 Pro, I always felt there is something missing in the middles. Vocals sounded more in the highs than in the mids. 

As for the ZS7, that one is warmer too, but lacks the clearness response of the highs. The ZS7 focuses more on bass and sub-bass overall.

Hidizs MS4 outperforms both for me. 

I do, however, want to see how the new KZ "terminator" will sound.


----------



## mbwilson111

moisespr123 said:


> With the ZS10 Pro, I always felt there is something missing in the middles.



This is the type of comment that makes me not want it.


----------



## Slater

moisespr123 said:


> With the ZS10 Pro, I always felt there is something missing in the middles.





mbwilson111 said:


> This is the type of comment that makes me not want it.



I don’t feel that way at all. I think the mids are just right (for my preference anyways).

Mary, don’t be afraid to give the ZS10 a try. I know you’ll love it based on the other gear you like.


----------



## voicemaster

citral23 said:


> To be fair I sounded a bit like trying to promote Dysons on a Xiaomi vacuum cleaners forum heh. I did some A/B again this evening. Gojira and Archspire sound better on the ZS7 by far. Billie Holiday and Thelonious Monk sound better on the kanas pro by far. Everyone will find something that suits them. But owning  more than 2 or 3 kz isn't a great choice imo, no flame intended. There are far worse  ideas than having a few select ones tho. I'll leave you in peace now, cheers.



I owned 3 1964 universal iems ($500+) and zs10pro blows them out completely.


----------



## voicemaster

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the type of comment that makes me not want it.



I think zs10pro has that thin mid that doesn't sound thick ala shure's mid. For me personally, that thick mid doesn't sound natural at all.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> I think zs10pro has that thin mid that doesn't sound thick ala shure's mid. For me personally, that thick mid doesn't sound natural at all.



The thick mids are more W shape tuning, which I don’t like. It just doesn’t sound good to my ears. But I know some people like that tuning, or maybe it depends on the genre.


----------



## moisespr123

Slater said:


> The thick mids are more W shape tuning, which I don’t like. It just doesn’t sound good to my ears. But I know some people like that tuning, or maybe it depends on the genre.



Maybe that's why. The MS4 are described as being W-shaped. It sounds fuller-sounding to me.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> The thick mids are more W shape tuning, which I don’t like. It just doesn’t sound good to my ears. But I know some people like that tuning, or maybe it depends on the genre.



If you listen to a lot of Diana Krall, it sounds pretty good, but I just not prefer overly thick mid.


----------



## voicemaster

moisespr123 said:


> Maybe that's why. The MS4 are described as being W-shaped. It sounds fuller-sounding to me.



Different people hear different things and has different preference is completely normal.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Different people hear different things and has different preference is completely normal.



Yup, maybe due to ear canal harmonics. But when I listen to a W shape earphone, it feels like fingernails on a chalkboard.

The KZ ED4 was like that. I could only take the sound for 2 minutes before saying nope! But there’s other HeadFiers that really like the ED4.


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 20, 2019)

Reading so much good things about the ZSA lately, took mine and the ZS6 from the drawer for a 2nd spin... Still not convinced about the ZSA, but the ZS6 amazed me all over again, no other KZ has similar open and airy sound.

And the memory foam tips helped a lot with the bad ergonomics, I hope they repeat the formula with a better shell.

But I read something about the bqeyz kb100 and took a look at the other models they have and love the BQ3.

Does anyone know if its any good?
Are they consistent in doing good models or is it a hit and miss?


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yup, maybe due to ear canal harmonics



I have wondered about that.  Once I have the right tips it seems like most things sound good to excellent to me.  Same with buds.  Not as much with headphones although with those some seem to interact more with the bones in my skull.  Certain headphones just make my skull feel like it will explode... and others are fine.  I think our anatomy has more to do with it that most people realize.  

So even if you tell someone to try a certain tip on an iem, or to put donut foams on top of regular foams with a certain bud, or to change to certain pads on a headphone.... you can't make them hear it the way you do.  I think our journey is more individual than that.


----------



## billbishere

I have been tip rolling like crazy on the zs10 pros.  Every time I try a memory foam tip it looses a good portion of the sub bass but it tames the top a bit as I find them midly sibalant on some songs.  I have get to find a tip that retains that sub bass but tames the top.  I have more coming tho .


----------



## Assimilator702 (Jul 20, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> This is the type of comment that makes me not want it.


But if you  DO hear something "missing" with the ZS10 PRO it would only be when directly compared to something with a different sound signature. Don't get caught up in the head games that come from proponents of expensive gear being vastly superior to budget gear. I enjoy my CCA CA4 and ZSN just as much as I do $1200 headphones.


----------



## Assimilator702

Look what the mailman left on my porch today.


----------



## Assimilator702 (Jul 20, 2019)

First impressions are very good. Seems more of an improvement to the AS10. No treble murder out of the box and wide or narrow bore silicone tips work for me. Bass digs deep but there isn't a heavy midbass boost. It seems KZ put that extra 22955 BA driver to good use.

Only a quick impressions post but so far I am very impressed. Tracks that hurt with the CCA A10 are not painful and that's such a relief as I was worried KZ would simply add an extra BA bass driver but have the top end  overbearing as with the A10. After a few days of play time I'll give a more thorough impression.

I haven't really analyzed detail retrieval yet. One thing at a time as I'm just happy they have a more conservative tuning in the upper mids and treble.
 But if any of you were on the fence the AS12 sounds like a progression of the AS10 which I'm sure will please many people.


----------



## pbui44 (Jul 20, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> I have wondered about that.  Once I have the right tips it seems like most things sound good to excellent to me.  Same with buds.  Not as much with headphones although with those some seem to interact more with the bones in my skull.  Certain headphones just make my skull feel like it will explode... and others are fine.  I think our anatomy has more to do with it that most people realize.
> 
> So even if you tell someone to try a certain tip on an iem, or to put donut foams on top of regular foams with a certain bud, or to change to certain pads on a headphone.... you can't make them hear it the way you do.  I think our journey is more individual than that.



I was talking to someone during CanJam RMAF 2014 about how our ears, heads, and brains are all different and that we will hear things differently as a result, and he had an absolutely perplexed look on his face while listening.  Yet, it is basically a conundrum when we think about what we want, not just with audio, but in general. 

That is why I approve of KZ products so much, which makes the most checks on what we want most in IEMs at a Walgreens/CVS price.  The LZ A4 I just received sounds better than my ZSA...but there are so many ear tips and filters, some of those filters so not work well in very humid weather conditions, quality control on the internal parts is questionable...etc.  The LZ A4 is not even that expensive at $200 MSRP, but it was recently discontinued does not quite sound to precise in a noisy coffee shop, so my $16 ZSA kept its place as reigning champion for outdoor stuff.


----------



## Wiljen

and the KB10 completes the triplets



 

If there are differences between the Tripowin TP10, the CCA A10, and the KBear KB10, they are pretty minimal.


----------



## Makahl (Jul 20, 2019)

billbishere said:


> I have been tip rolling like crazy on the zs10 pros.  Every time I try a memory foam tip it looses a good portion of the sub bass but it tames the top a bit as I find them midly sibalant on some songs.  I have get to find a tip that retains that sub bass but tames the top. * I have more coming tho .*



If you keep struggling to find a good tip might one of those mods will fix it for you:

1) Shoving a piece of foam inside of the tip. Example:


>



2) 3M Micropore mod (not _transpore_):



>



Those mods work like a charm for taming highs and it's rather easy to perform (or undo).


----------



## mbwilson111

igorneumann said:


> But I read something about the bqeyz kb100 and took a look at the other models they have and love the BQ3.
> 
> Does anyone know if its any good?
> Are they consistent in doing good models or is it a hit and miss?



You could visit the BQEYZ thread.  People do seem to agree that they are consistent in doing good models.  I love my KB100 and I know my husband loves his BQ3. 

Here is a link to the thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bqeyz-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.894089/

someone posted this chart in one of the other IEM threads but I do not see it in the BQEYZ thread so maybe I should add it there.



Spoiler: off topic - BQEYZ models



I have no idea if this is meant to be quantity, quality or some kind of combination...or if listeners would agree.  

This is the post where I found it :  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1337#post-14619201


----------



## moisespr123

I've found the "bass" tips to work better for me, because the nozzle is closer to my ear and the sound seems better that way. I've tried using that tip with the ZS10 Pro and it improved things, but not to the level as to me wanting to use it for every day use. They are softer too compared to the KZ star tips. Unfortunately, finding these tips are almost impossible unless you buy an FiiO or Hidizs IEM.


----------



## Assimilator702

Makahl said:


> If you keep struggling to find a good tip might one of those mods will fix it for you:
> 
> 1) Shoving a piece of foam inside of the tip. Example:
> 
> ...


What's the difference between Micropore and transpore?


----------



## Makahl

Assimilator702 said:


> What's the difference between Micropore and transpore?


 here's a good explanation by slater:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1568#post-14943183


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 20, 2019)

The ED16 with the 8 core silver KZ cable is sparkly and bright but noisey and possibly passable with this config as albums sound as they were recorded, different.

The ZS6 v2 which sounds dark, crisp and clear. But potentially boring as it lacks sparkle. But it's still a contender and a good buy.


----------



## nraymond

pbui44 said:


> I was talking to someone during CanJam RMAF 2014 about how our ears, heads, and brains are all different and that we will hear things differently as a result, and he had an absolutely perplexed look on his face while listening.  Yet, it is basically a conundrum when we think about what we want, not just with audio, but in general.



I guess you can disagree with the producers, mastering engineers, maybe how a live performance was mic’d and hey it’s up to you to try to correct those decisions with your audio equipment. But if you don’t disagree with those decisions, and especially if we’re talking about live music, there is the baseline 100% experience of being there live, and then listening to a recording on audio equipment is some percentage of that live experience. Different speakers/headphones and different audio equipment comes some percentage close to that, and that’s true for everyone.


----------



## macky112

Can anyone comment if the stock ZS7 cable is better or worse than the stock ZS10 Pro cable?


----------



## baskingshark

Wiljen said:


> and the KB10 completes the triplets
> 
> 
> 
> If there are differences between the Tripowin TP10, the CCA A10, and the KBear KB10, they are pretty minimal.



I always suspected this, thanks for the graph to confirm it. The rolled off subbass and scary lower treble peak make this a hard pass for me for all of these sets.

I started my journey in CHIFI due to KZ, but other than CCA doing some good work with the tuning of their lineup and the KZ ZS10 Pro/ZS7, I've been pretty disappointed with tripowin and the other latest KZ offerings.


----------



## courierdriver

billbishere said:


> I do like that blue.  The chrome is a finger print magnet


Yeah, but to me that makes them as special as my KPE. I spend some time on both, polishing them to keep then clean looking. I don't mind shiny stuff at all. I luvs me some bling!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 20, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> Reading so much good things about the ZSA lately, took mine and the ZS6 from the drawer for a 2nd spin... Still not convinced about the ZSA.


The problem with the ZSA is listeners burnout comes quite quick.  It's not one of those earphones you'd want to listen to for hours or a long trip. However, it is light, so it's "perfect" for taking on a long non-vehicle trip.

Have you tried using it with a second music device to see for sure that you don't like it?


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I have wondered about that.  Once I have the right tips it seems like most things sound good to excellent to me.  Same with buds.  Not as much with headphones although with those some seem to interact more with the bones in my skull.  Certain headphones just make my skull feel like it will explode... and others are fine.  I think our anatomy has more to do with it that most people realize.
> 
> So even if you tell someone to try a certain tip on an iem, or to put donut foams on top of regular foams with a certain bud, or to change to certain pads on a headphone.... you can't make them hear it the way you do.  I think our journey is more individual than that.


I couldn't have said it any better, myself! All this gear is just about personal preferences. And, there's nothing wrong with that!


----------



## courierdriver

billbishere said:


> I have been tip rolling like crazy on the zs10 pros.  Every time I try a memory foam tip it looses a good portion of the sub bass but it tames the top a bit as I find them midly sibalant on some songs.  I have get to find a tip that retains that sub bass but tames the top.  I have more coming tho .


If you dont already have them, try the Newbee foams. To my ears, they keep the bass nice and supple and deep, but they still retain the mids and highs. Very comfy too. I can listen to my ZS10 PRO's and KPE 's for hours on end, and I never feel fatigued. I actually have to force myself to stop listening and go to bed.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> At the moment though, I can't say the same for the TFZ NO.3. These, while more than double the cost of the ZS10 PRO, are NOT even in the same ballpark, imho. Cost don't amount to squat! It's all about the execution of the tuning.


Are you saying the ZS10 Pro are better then the TFZ No. 3?


----------



## courierdriver

moisespr123 said:


> I've found the "bass" tips to work better for me, because the nozzle is closer to my ear and the sound seems better that way. I've tried using that tip with the ZS10 Pro and it improved things, but not to the level as to me wanting to use it for every day use. They are softer too compared to the KZ star tips. Unfortunately, finding these tips are almost impossible unless you buy an FiiO or Hidizs IEM.


Have you tried the Newbee foam tips? They sound great, and stay in my ears very well.


----------



## courierdriver (Jul 20, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you saying the ZS10 Pro are better then the TFZ No. 3?


Yup. Maybe I got a defective set, but I personally prefer the ZS10 PRO over the No.3. Of the 3 iems I currently have, my rating is: 1- KPE, 2- ZS10 PRO, 3- TFZ NO.3. The ZS10 PRO has got better, clearer details than the No.3. Bass is actually more slamming too. Which is odd, since this set was touted as having better bass than the KPE. Without extreme EQ, the the No.3 sounds soft, recessed and boring. I don't get the hype. To me, KPE sounds clearer, cleaner and faster than the No.3, and ZS10 PRO has all that, with a bit more punch to the mid bass, compared to the No.3. SO FAR...I've only got about 10 hours on the No.3 so things might change with more usage. So far though, I'm not getting the hype.


----------



## billbishere

courierdriver said:


> If you dont already have them, try the Newbee foams. To my ears, they keep the bass nice and supple and deep, but they still retain the mids and highs. Very comfy too. I can listen to my ZS10 PRO's and KPE 's for hours on end, and I never feel fatigued. I actually have to force myself to stop listening and go to bed.



Those are the ones I just got.  I have the red ones.  They took away too much sub bass for my liking.  Love how the highs sound with them but don't want to give away that much sub.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> I actually have to force myself to stop listening and go to bed.



I know that feeling.... especially when my husband is away working nights.  I have accidentally stayed up listening to album after album until 5am more than a few times.  So, I am on night shift too... lol.   Except he is working


----------



## igorneumann

Im using with the kz BT adapter, tried also the Trn Bt03.

Its like it lacks some mid-bass, it does appear to have some strong sub bass in some songs, but ir lack punch.

Im even considering maybr mine is defective bcause isnt what I read in any review.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> The problem with the ZSA is listeners burnout comes quite quick.  It's not one of those earphones you'd want to listen to for hours or a long trip. However, it is light, so it's "perfect" for taking on a long non-vehicle trip.
> 
> Have you tried using it with a second music device to see for sure that you don't like it?


----------



## igorneumann

Thanks, im there already...

Spend so much time in just 2 threads that I forget there are others, sorry for the offtopic bit.

Ps.: Im surelly getting at least a couple of those
Ps2.: I saw that chart but it doesnt appear to be consistent with reviews as it shows BQ3 with less bass and every review says the opposite.



mbwilson111 said:


> You could visit the BQEYZ thread.  People do seem to agree that they are consistent in doing good models.  I love my KB100 and I know my husband loves his BQ3.
> 
> Here is a link to the thread:
> 
> ...


----------



## billbishere

I sleep with my ZS10's


----------



## igorneumann

I have 2 "forgotten" KZ models in my drawer that I loved the sound signature but was never able to use them...

KZ ED 9
KZ ED15 (absolutely stunning design)

The problem I have with them is that their weight appear to be torward the outer side and they fall off my ears almost instantly.

I wonder if someone has a trick to make those usable.


----------



## igorneumann

Thats awesome, I always wanted a AS10 with slightly bigger bass.

Im still not sold in their new aesthetic though... Is that outer shell aluminum or baigain-bin silver plastic?

I wish they kept the transparent shells with the logo printed on the board, love those (but the ZSN/ZS10 pro aluminum outer shell is also sweet).



Assimilator702 said:


> First impressions are very good. Seems more of an improvement to the AS10. No treble murder out of the box and wide or narrow bore silicone tips work for me. Bass digs deep but there isn't a heavy midbass boost. It seems KZ put that extra 22955 BA driver to good use.
> 
> Only a quick impressions post but so far I am very impressed. Tracks that hurt with the CCA A10 are not painful and that's such a relief as I was worried KZ would simply add an extra BA bass driver but have the top end  overbearing as with the A10. After a few days of play time I'll give a more thorough impression.
> 
> ...


----------



## mbwilson111

igorneumann said:


> Ps2.: I saw that chart but it doesnt appear to be consistent with reviews as it shows BQ3 with less bass and every review says the opposite.



I wondered about that also.  Maybe my husband @HungryPanda would like to compare his BQ3 with my KB100 and comment on the bass in the BQEYZ thread sometime this week.

People probably think we have both listened to each of the others gear, but that is not true.  How would we have time?


----------



## Slater

igorneumann said:


> I have 2 "forgotten" KZ models in my drawer that I loved the sound signature but was never able to use them...
> 
> KZ ED 9
> KZ ED15 (absolutely stunning design)
> ...



Try to wear them with the cable up over your ears. That will help hold them in place.

Also, foam ear tips will help lock them in place.


----------



## PhonoPhi

igorneumann said:


> Thats awesome, I always wanted a AS10 with slightly bigger bass.
> 
> Im still not sold in their new aesthetic though... Is that outer shell aluminum or baigain-bin silver plastic?
> 
> I wish they kept the transparent shells with the logo printed on the board, love those (but the ZSN/ZS10 pro aluminum outer shell is also sweet).



The shell of AS16, A10, C16 etc is a well-established design close in constituents to ZS10 pro, etc.
The top is actually zinc-aluminum alloy, which is heavy (hopefully for acoustic purposes).
The main difference of AS16 shells with the ones of ZSN pro is that the former is tighter to fit, but the isolation may be better, even to much.

AS12 is tempting, but I am waiting for C20, C18 or possibly C12


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 21, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> The shell of AS16, A10, C16 etc is a well-established design close in constituents to ZS10 pro, etc.
> The top is actually zinc-aluminum alloy, which is heavy (hopefully for acoustic purposes).
> The main difference of AS16 shells with the ones of ZSN pro is that the former is tighter to fit, but the isolation may be better, even to much.
> 
> AS12 is tempting, but I am waiting for C20, C18 or possibly C12



I have the AS10, I understand is the same shell with the outer layer in alloy instead of transparent plastic... If thats true, I like how it fits.

But I still dont like how it looks... Not about the shell itself but the outer plate design.

And it feels so weird to write this as I always had been a "sound quality is the only thing that matters" guy but after a couple of years hoarding KZ, there are simply so many options that I started to skip some due to ergonomics (ZS7), look (AS16, because of appearance and price, I do like treble bombs) or both things (BA10, really, What?), specially when they are over 35$.


----------



## PhonoPhi

igorneumann said:


> I have the AS10, I understand is the same shell with the outer layer in alloy instead of transparent plastic... If thats true, I like how it fits.
> 
> But I still dont like how it looks... Not about the shell itself but the outer plate design.
> 
> And it feels so weird to write this as I always had been a "sound quality is the only thing that matters" guy but after a couple of years hoarding KZ, there are simply so many options that I started to skip some due to ergonomics (ZS7), look (AS16, because of appearance and price, I do like treble bombs) or both things (BA10, really, What?), specially when they are over 35$.



AS10 fits a bit gentler for me than the designs with the top alloy plates, no major difference though.
The top plate is noticeably heavy, since it is zinc alloy rather than aluminum.
Talking of BA10, revisiting it for the comparison, I was surprised how light the shell is (only 6 g), it is beautifully made  and the sound is more refined AS10.
Just the corners, those corners...


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 21, 2019)

I hate to hear good things about the BA10/ZS7, as it makes me want to buy them, im pretty sure they both have terrific sound signature, but also that they would end up neglected because of fitting just like the ZS6. (That still one of the best sounding KZs).

Im pretty sure I would use it very often if was my 2nd IEM, but when the number of iems is on double digits there are less time for it.

I just think KZ is unable to make a aluminum IEM that I like.

Zs6/7 shell is a pain to use.
ED9/15 dont stay in my ear (heavy in the wrong end)
My ZSA had a loose connector and never sounded right to my taste (and I want to love this IEM so bas as I love its shell)
The BA10 gives me pain just to look at it... Specially the golden/red one, Really?

Thats why I felt in love instantly by the TRN V80, its like TRN got right what KZ was trying so hard.

One day I lost it and bought a new one the same day, just to find it a week later... And Im glad I did as the new ones are way less attractive IMHO (they are shiny blue not "blue with metallic dots" as the one I have).

Maybe too much information but that extra V80 ultimatelly turned into weed.

Funny fact: I was about to "step up the game" and buy a Kanas Pro when I "lost" my V80, that incident made me go back to my 50$ budget for each IEM.



PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 fits a bit gentler for me than the designs with the top alloy plates, no major difference though.
> The top plate is noticeably heavy, since it is zinc alloy rather than aluminum.
> Talking of BA10, revisiting it for the comparison, I was surprised how light the shell is (only 6 g), it is beautifully made  and the sound is more refined AS10.
> Just the corners, those corners...


----------



## igorneumann

Slater said:


> Try to wear them with the cable up over your ears. That will help hold them in place.
> 
> Also, foam ear tips will help lock them in place.



Tried that, the cables over my ear helped... I could manage 15 steps before it falling out, or 2 head turns, big improvement from "instant fall".

Foam didnt helped but then I reminded of a Spinfot cp240 and IT WORKED!

Similar story with the ED9 (this one I had managed to use indoors before, it stayed in my ears as long as I dont moved), a double tip did the job.

Ill try them outside in a while but for the first time I could properly test my ed15 (bought at launch).

Thanks.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 21, 2019)

I forgot that I had these, and measured it.  KZ ZS5 V1.  And just like other graphs of it we've seen, we can see the suck-out at effectively 4-8k.


----------



## Mybutthurts

courierdriver said:


> If you dont already have them, try the Newbee foams. To my ears, they keep the bass nice and supple and deep, but they still retain the mids and highs. Very comfy too. I can listen to my ZS10 PRO's and KPE 's for hours on end, and I never feel fatigued. I actually have to force myself to stop listening and go to bed.



New Bee silicone tips ain't bad either, I'm only just coming around to using their foam tips on the ZS10 Pro having not on well with them on AS10 and original ZS10.


----------



## Slater

SilverEars said:


> I forgot that I had these, and measured it.  KZ ZS5.  And just like other graphs of it we've seen, we can see the suck-out at effectively 4-8k.



V1 or V2?


----------



## SilverEars

Slater said:


> V1 or V2?


Not sure.  How to tell?  Perhaps it's V1 since I got it when there were a bit of a hype around them when came out.


----------



## Slater (Jul 21, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> Not sure.  How to tell?  Perhaps it's V1 since I got it when there were a bit of a hype around them when came out.



If you look in the nozzle with a flashlight, how many BA drivers do you see behind the nozzle screen? They look like tiny metal circles/tubes.

If you only see 1, it’s ZS5 v1. If you see 2, then it’s a ZS5 v2.

This is what it looks like with the nozzle mesh removed:



Note that you can still see the drivers without removing the mesh, like this v2:


See the 2 ‘circles’ that show up through the mesh? Those are the BA drivers.


----------



## SilverEars

Slater said:


> If you look in the nozzle with a flashlight, how many BA drivers do you see behind the nozzle screen? They look like tiny metal circles/tubes.
> 
> If you only see 1, it’s ZS5 v1. If you see 2, then it’s a ZS5 v2.
> 
> ...


I can see through the mesh and it's only one sound outlet, so it's for sure V1.


----------



## Slater

SilverEars said:


> I can see through the mesh and it's only one sound outlet, so it's for sure V1.



That’s a rare and sought after model, friend. Cherish and enjoy that well. Either that, or sell it (which you’ll have absolutely no problem doing).


----------



## SilverEars

Slater said:


> That’s a rare and sought after model, friend. Cherish that well, or sell it (which you’ll have no problem doing).


If anybody wants to buy it from me, please PM me.  I had no idea it was a sought after item, why is that?


----------



## Slater (Jul 21, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> If anybody wants to buy it from me, please PM me.  I had no idea it was a sought after item, why is that?



Some people really like the sound tuning. It really needs the right kind of source to sound good, because the drivers are all wired in series (not parallel). If you just try it with a phone, it will sound like crap.

Also because of supply and demand. It was not out for long before being replaced by the v2, so it is sought after.

Finally, it has a huge sound stage (probably the biggest of any KZ), which people like.

Probably the only KZ models more rare are the micro ring, ANV, and ZS1 v1 (with the brass ring).


----------



## SilverEars

Slater said:


> Some people really like the sound tuning. It really needs the right kind of source to sound good. If you just try it with a phone, it will sound like crap.
> 
> Also supply and demand. It was not out for long before being replaced by the v2, so it is sought after.
> 
> ...


Ok, it seems such kind of iem response has a following as I've seen it on other iems like RHA CL2, etc..


----------



## SilverEars

I tried swapping cables and measure to see if I will get different response as result of using different cables.  Cable #1 is Kanas Pro cable, and #2 is stock KZ cable, and as you can see, no differences in the FR from cable swap.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SilverEars said:


> I tried swapping cables and measure to see if I will get different response as result of using different cables.  Cable #1 is Kanas Pro cable, and #2 is stock KZ cable, and as you can see, no differences in the FR from cable swap.


Yet the most surprising to me that those hearing the cable differences are often those "listening to the curves". 

On a more constructive note, I am a bit surprised that measurements at different volumes are not commonly made. The spectra normalized per volume/power would demonstrate the difference for those "power hungry" IEMs.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 21, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Yet the most surprising to me that those hearing the cable differences are often those "listening to the curves".
> 
> On a more constructive note, I am a bit surprised that measurements at different volumes are not commonly made. The spectra normalized per volume/power would demonstrate the difference for those "power hungry" IEMs.


ZS5 seems quite stable when it comes to cable or source change.  I measured with 2 sources, and doesn't show any changes.



Then I measured MH755, I noticed slight differences from 2 difference sources, and I measured again to verify, and it's certain there were slight differences in response.  But, this was approx only 1dB of difference.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 21, 2019)

I can't find my ED16 cable... So I stuck the ZSA cable in it. I'm not sure if they make each cable for each iem but the ED16 isn't that great. It sounds good but not as amazing as the ES4 that came out at the same time.

I have a 8 core brown NiceHCK cable (thanks for the rec) on my ZSA and it gives it a natural and musical life while the stock cable was slightly harsh and fatiguing after a while. I have a feeling fatigue will be minimal with the NiceHCK cable on the ZSA.

The old KZ tuning is obvious on iems like the ZSA and some might like the classic tuning that is like watching a band live compared to their newer iem tuning which may seem artificial on some newer models.

While listening to the ZSA with the 8 core NiceHCK cable I ask myself, "Are $150+ iems even worth it?" The ZSA isn't perfect as it doesn't sound smooth like the Moondrop Crescent but it still sounds unique and pleasant and worthy of a purchase.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

igorneumann said:


> ZSA lacks some mid-bass, it does appear to have some strong sub bass in some songs, but ir lack punch.
> 
> Im even considering maybe mine is defective bcause isnt what I read in any review.


Have you tried the ZSA with the NiceHCK 8 core brown copper cable or you using the stock cable?


----------



## courierdriver

billbishere said:


> Those are the ones I just got.  I have the red ones.  They took away too much sub bass for my liking.  Love how the highs sound with them but don't want to give away that much sub.


I'm surprised because I didn't find the Newbee foams subtracted anything from the sub bass on either the KPE or ZS10 PRO. Compared to Comply's, I found the bass on the Newbee's to retain it's quick, impactful tightness on both sets, without sacrificing any mids or treble detail. With the Comply foams, bass became less detailed and more muddy. The mids and highs are also less detailed on the Comply. They improved a bit, after I modded them by cutting out the center "wax guard" foam screen, but they still don't sound as good as good as the Newbee foams. Ah, well...everyone's ears are different. Lol!


----------



## courierdriver

Mybutthurts said:


> New Bee silicone tips ain't bad either, I'm only just coming around to using their foam tips on the ZS10 Pro having not on well with them on AS10 and original ZS10.


Yeah, I bought 2 sets of the Newbee 6 packs of 3 sizes foam/3 sizes silicon. I'm honestly not a big fan of any of the silicones I've tried, on ANY of my iems. I don't like how they fit (they always slip out of my ears too easily, are uncomfortable for long listening sessions, don't seal well and weaken the bass impact). I tend to like the fit and comfort of foams better and like the isolation and bass response, but their drawbacks are that they don't keep the details in the mids and highs. The Newbee foams keep the mids and highs intact, while still providing better bass response and noise isolation...imho. Much cheaper to buy also, compared to foams like Comply. I've tried the silicones on my KPE and ZS10 PRO, and still prefer the foams. Only silicones I've like so far, is the large size Spinfits CP145, with the TFZ No.3. Even with that combo though, I still constantly have to keep pushing them hard into my ears. The foams never slip out on any of my sets.


----------



## pbui44

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I bought 2 sets of the Newbee 6 packs of 3 sizes foam/3 sizes silicon. I'm honestly not a big fan of any of the silicones I've tried, on ANY of my iems. I don't like how they fit (they always slip out of my ears too easily, are uncomfortable for long listening sessions, don't seal well and weaken the bass impact). I tend to like the fit and comfort of foams better and like the isolation and bass response, but their drawbacks are that they don't keep the details in the mids and highs. The Newbee foams keep the mids and highs intact, while still providing better bass response and noise isolation...imho. Much cheaper to buy also, compared to foams like Comply. I've tried the silicones on my KPE and ZS10 PRO, and still prefer the foams. Only silicones I've like so far, is the large size Spinfits CP145, with the TFZ No.3. Even with that combo though, I still constantly have to keep pushing them hard into my ears. The foams never slip out on any of my sets.



I finally found the Newbee silicones to work on the Sony MH755s fantastically, giving them a real seal on such a tiny housing.  Yeah, I thought the MH755s were going back to Sony’s roots...but it’s really like they are having to play catch-up to threatening budget Chi-Fi companies, like KZ.


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Have you tried the ZSA with the NiceHCK 8 core brown copper cable or you using the stock cable?



Bluetooth adapter.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Hi, KZ fans,

This is my private ladder of KZ IEMs I’ve ever had or actually have. To listen to music I like the sound that is compact and smooth, can be neutral or brighter. I'm not looking for extra wide frequency range and also I’m very sensitive to peaks at heights.

1 .KZ AS10
good: balanced and smooth    bad: - 

2. KZ ZS10 (new rev.)
good: musicality    bad: -

3. KZ AS16
good: resolution    bad: harshy peaks on loud

4. KZ ZS10 Pro
good: technical ability    bad: not balanced heights

5. KZ ZS7
good: bass    bad: odd sound on certain genres

6. KZ ZS3
good: balanced    bad: sibilance

7. KZ ZS3e
good: some details    bad: too much bass

8. KZ ED16
good: bass    bad: spike at heights


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 23, 2019)

I have a brand new boxed **** **** to trade for something. Brand new silicone stock tips: 1L/1M/1S. Look at my profile to see what I already have.

Maybe trade me the cheapest BQEYZ iem?


----------



## Mybutthurts

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I bought 2 sets of the Newbee 6 packs of 3 sizes foam/3 sizes silicon. I'm honestly not a big fan of any of the silicones I've tried, on ANY of my iems. I don't like how they fit (they always slip out of my ears too easily, are uncomfortable for long listening sessions, don't seal well and weaken the bass impact). I tend to like the fit and comfort of foams better and like the isolation and bass response, but their drawbacks are that they don't keep the details in the mids and highs. The Newbee foams keep the mids and highs intact, while still providing better bass response and noise isolation...imho. Much cheaper to buy also, compared to foams like Comply. I've tried the silicones on my KPE and ZS10 PRO, and still prefer the foams. Only silicones I've like so far, is the large size Spinfits CP145, with the TFZ No.3. Even with that combo though, I still constantly have to keep pushing them hard into my ears. The foams never slip out on any of my sets.



The thing about New Bee tips are buying 6 pairs and only probably using one pair.

I've taken to ploughing through AliE listings and buying some cheap and cheerful tips from their stores, as they sometimes supply just the size you need.
Got a few packs from ALWUP stores that are great for me, although bore is a little smaller than starlines & new bees.
Will have to look for foam tips next time I buy from AliExpress... maybe a Blue plate ZS10 Pro...
Or would KZ supply just a blue plate and I'll change the silver plate on my existing blue ZS10 Pro so blue all over...


----------



## Mlaihk

Mybutthurts said:


> The thing about New Bee tips are buying 6 pairs and only probably using one pair.
> 
> I've taken to ploughing through AliE listings and buying some cheap and cheerful tips from their stores, as they sometimes supply just the size you need.
> Got a few packs from ALWUP stores that are great for me, although bore is a little smaller than starlines & new bees.
> ...



Try the AET07 with the ZS10pro.  They work great for me.....


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jul 26, 2019)

I’v been listening the AS12 for 2 hours or so, and…
… they are very similar to AS16. What I notice during that short time...

more bass 
differently tuned treble. More pronounced sibilance range 
little less harshy on high volume 
same flat soundstage 

Still have to try silver and silver/gold cable.

EDIT: Hmm, after a longer time with silver/gold KZ cable on the as12, I must admit that their sound is coherent. And detailed. -- quality masters are required-- but still you have to get used to their bright sound anyway. Brighter treble than as16,


----------



## Mybutthurts

Mlaihk said:


> Try the AET07 with the ZS10pro.  They work great for me.....



Look good and not that dissimilar to these.

￡0.79  23%OFF | 5Pairs 10Pcs ear pads for earphone headphone silicon ear bud tips for xiaomi replacement earphone silicone ear cups for KZ Sony
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ce3o3irm


----------



## Mlaihk (Jul 22, 2019)

I have been using the AS16 and ZS10pro for a week now.  The ZS10pro is absolutely fantastic!  I prefer the sound over the AS16, better defined bass and bass presence.  Treble seems to be done just right.  The AS16 sounded off to me.  The bass not quite there even with foam or AET07 tips. And seems too bright in the treble so the sound profile is quite thin.  Seems that zs10 pro is a lot more enjoyable than thr AS16 for me.

Also, the output ports on thr AS16 is way too long for me and I really can't get a proper fit with them despite tip rolling for the whole week with comply/spinfits/AET07/AET08/Final E of various sizes.  I guess AS16 is my first iem that I can't get a proper fit with.......


----------



## harry501501 (Jul 22, 2019)

Mlaihk said:


> I have been using the AS16 and ZS10pro for a week now.  The ZS10pro is absolutely fantastic!  I prefer the sound over the AS16, better defined bass and bass presence.  Treble seems to be done just right.  The AS16 sounded off to me.  The bass not quite there even with foam or AET07 tips. And seems too bright in the treble so the sound profile is quite thin.  Seems that zs10 pro is a lot more enjoyable than thr AS16 for me.
> 
> Also, the output ports on thr AS16 is way too long for me and I really can't get a proper fit with them despite tip rolling for the whole week with comply/spinfits/AET07/AET08/Final E of various sizes.  I guess AS16 is my first iem that I can't get a proper fit with.......



You should let the as16 burn in. I was never a believer to physical burn in but after being able to compare the ccac10 ootb with one with 100hrs plus was staggering how much change there was in the bass. The zs10pro my favourite kz by a mile. I use medium double flanges that do best for detail and making sure that gorgeous bass is still there. Spin fits didn't pair well for me


----------



## tnelmo

Slater said:


> In case anyone cares about these mesh nozzle screens, the ZS3 uses the 4.0mm size.
> 
> If it would interest anyone, I can use calipers & measure all of my IEMs and list what size screens they all use as well. Because occasionally those screens do fall off or need to be replaced from time to time.



I'm dredging up a very old post, sorry.

@Slater , does the EDR1 also use the 4.0mm mesh nozzle screen?  I ruined one of mine while trying to use thermoplastic to make a CIEM. I had cut some painter's tape to protect it, but it either fell off or I failed to put it on.

  Have you seen the KZ red version screen anywhere for sale?  I found some stainless mesh on AE thanks to a link on another Head-fi post.  Would I be better off changing both sides to the stainless mesh, or would the sound be that much different with one stainless screen and one red fabric screen?


----------



## Slater

tnelmo said:


> I'm dredging up a very old post, sorry.
> 
> @Slater , does the EDR1 also use the 4.0mm mesh nozzle screen?  I ruined one of mine while trying to use thermoplastic to make a CIEM. I had cut some painter's tape to protect it, but it either fell off or I failed to put it on.
> 
> Have you seen the KZ red version screen anywhere for sale?  I found some stainless mesh on AE thanks to a link on another Head-fi post.  Would I be better off changing both sides to the stainless mesh, or would the sound be that much different with one stainless screen and one red fabric screen?



On the EDR1, 4.0mm screens fit perfectly.

As far as using one type on 1 side and a different type on the other, no you want to use both the same type. So either red screens on both sides or stainless screens on both sides (but not 1 of each).

As far as red vs stainless, I actually prefer the EDR1 with stainless screens. So don’t worry too much about losing a red one.

And no, I’ve never seen the red ones for sale by themselves. Just get the stainless mesh ones and you’ll be fine


----------



## steviewonderbread

Mlaihk said:


> I have been using the AS16 and ZS10pro for a week now.  The ZS10pro is absolutely fantastic!  I prefer the sound over the AS16, better defined bass and bass presence.  Treble seems to be done just right.  The AS16 sounded off to me.  The bass not quite there even with foam or AET07 tips. And seems too bright in the treble so the sound profile is quite thin.  Seems that zs10 pro is a lot more enjoyable than thr AS16 for me...



I've fallen in love with my ZS10 Pro. I think I saw someone mention they literally are staying up late just to listen to them in bed and I've been "struggling" with the same problem!

I see you have quite the high-end collection of IEMs in your sig; how well do you think these KZ's perform above their price point, if at all?


----------



## Makahl (Jul 22, 2019)

Oh, nice! CCA posted some ZS10 Pro Royal Blue IRL pics on twitter:
https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1153229505793626112

But it's kinda dark so photoshop helped a bit. 




And apparently not shiny!


----------



## Mouseman

Arghhh! You're not making it easy to avoid buying that beautiful blue ZS10.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Jul 22, 2019)

Makahl said:


> Oh, nice! CCA posted some ZS10 Pro Royal Blue IRL pics on twitter:
> https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1153229505793626112
> 
> But it's kinda dark so photoshop helped a bit.
> ...




I was actually hoping it would be shiny.  I think I will wait until some of our best photographers share real life photos.




Mouseman said:


> Arghhh! You're not making it easy to avoid buying that beautiful blue ZS10.



I am still thinking about waiting for a shiny purple faceplate... a true royal purple



Spoiler: PURPLE!!!


----------



## Makahl

mbwilson111 said:


> I was actually hoping it would be shiny.  I think I will wait until some of our best photographers share real life photos.



I'd bet it's brushed steel finishing. Shiny is such an eye candy but... fingerprints everywhere kind of bothers me and my OCD for cleaning. But let's see I think soon people will receive it and share better quality pics!


----------



## Slater (Jul 22, 2019)

Makahl said:


> Oh, nice! CCA posted some ZS10 Pro Royal Blue IRL pics on twitter:



I’m a bit disappointed that KZ put that beautiful blue cover on the black ZS10 Pro body. It would have looked phenomenal on the blue-bodied ZS10 Pro IMO.

Oh well, still very cool!


----------



## Mouseman

Slater said:


> I’m a bit disappointed that KZ put that beautiful blue cover on the black ZS10 Pro body. It would have looked phenomenal on the blue-bodied ZS10 Pro IMO.
> 
> Oh well, still very cool!


But those of us with blue shells can probably take off the face plates and switch them over. ....


----------



## Mlaihk

Well....  I am not a guru by any sense but cab share some thoughts....

AS16 vs Andromeda/Andromeda S.  Despite having 8ba vs 5ba in the Andro/Andro S, I feel that Andromeda is way better tuned than th AS16.  The Andro has exceptional details in the highs, more forward vocals and tight, controlled bass with substance.  AS16, well, sounds as it is....  Very Cheap.  AS16 sounds very thin. It is very difficult to fit in my ear due to the long nostrils.  The AS16 costs way more than then the ZS10pro.  I regreted getting the AS16 given my arsenal of other IEMs.  The T800 I reasonably got at a discount sound miles ahead of the AS16.
Some may say this is an unfair comparison for the AS16, but my feeling is that if I were going for a 100 dollar iems for enjoyment, there are way better choices than AS16s. And I am not even going to compare soundstage between the AS16 and Andro, as THAT will be really unfair to the AS16.

ZS10pro is way different.  The bass is elevated but by no means approaching bass heads, which I like very  much.  The zS10 pro highs are not as detailed as the Andro/S and does not extend as high.  But the ZS10pro has a certain musical appeal to me vs the very technical and accurate Andro S.  For daily listening and, heaven forbid, movie watching, the ZS10pro is quite lovable.  I find myself reaching for ZS10 pro quite frequently if I am just listening to normal quality streaming, youtubes, netflix where audio wasn't great and thr Andromeda will reveal any and a flaws in the audio.  ZS10 pro seems to sound right and hides the audio flaws quite well with these sources.

All in all, I am quite satisfied with the ZS10pro with its highly engaging and musical tuning, and at below USD50 it can't be beat for a daily iem.  But the AS16, for me at least, fit issue is a problem and the sound just does not do it for me.  AS16 is now a step away from my trash......



steviewonderbread said:


> I've fallen in love with my ZS10 Pro. I think I saw someone mention they literally are staying up late just to listen to them in bed and I've been "struggling" with the same problem!
> 
> I see you have quite the high-end collection of IEMs in your sig; how well do you think these KZ's perform above their price point, if at all?


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> I’m a bit disappointed that KZ put that beautiful blue cover on the black ZS10 Pro body. It would have looked phenomenal on the blue-bodied ZS10 Pro IMO.
> 
> Oh well, still very cool!



Certainly, it looks a bit gaudy if you look the whole picture (golden nozzle, gray body, blue faceplate, copper cable) but wearing tips and a nice cable I think it'll look quite good actually. I got some black pentabit screws that I think will look awesome on them (similar to new CA Polaris).


----------



## baskingshark

Mlaihk said:


> Well....  I am not a guru by any sense but cab share some thoughts....
> 
> AS16 vs Andromeda/Andromeda S.  Despite having 8ba vs 5ba in the Andro/Andro S, I feel that Andromeda is way better tuned than th AS16.  The Andro has exceptional details in the highs, more forward vocals and tight, controlled bass with substance.  AS16, well, sounds as it is....  Very Cheap.  AS16 sounds very thin. It is very difficult to fit in my ear due to the long nostrils.  The AS16 costs way more than then the ZS10pro.  I regreted getting the AS16 given my arsenal of other IEMs.  The T800 I reasonably got at a discount sound miles ahead of the AS16.
> Some may say this is an unfair comparison for the AS16, but my feeling is that if I were going for a 100 dollar iems for enjoyment, there are way better choices than AS16s. And I am not even going to compare soundstage between the AS16 and Andro, as THAT will be really unfair to the AS16.
> ...




Yeah i agree that KZ does very well at the budget range (< $50 USD) for IEMs (I like my ZS10 Pro a lot). But now that they are trying to muscle into the territory of > $100 USD range IEMs, it is not just about dumping many drivers into a shell and hoping to compete with the bigboys. At that pricing, the AS16 has to compete with other better tuned stuff and the consumers at that price range are more discerning due to the costs.
I really hope the KZ engineers can focus on good tuning rather than quickly churning out multi BA/hybrid IEMs every few weeks.


----------



## courierdriver

I think that's the thing, with the ZS10 PRO. They have just such an infectious sound signature. I keep going to this set, whenever I wanna just forget all the technicalities and just enjoy whatever music I'm in the mood for. I've never listened to a song on these and thought, "these sound terrible with this song". They may not sound perfect on every type of music, and there's always other sets that might sound better on this track or that track; but no matter what I listen to, they always let the music shine thru. Imho, that's a sign of a very good iem. I'm happily satisfied with the SQ, and I can't rec them enough to anyone who just wants to enjoy their music.


----------



## maxxevv

Interesting new TWE from KZ.

Available from  KZ Official Store on Aliexpress. 
(Saw their announcement on Facebook )


----------



## Mlaihk

Nice!  But in this era, micro-usb charging port?  Seriously?  Come on.......



maxxevv said:


> Interesting new TWE from KZ.
> 
> Available from  KZ Official Store on Aliexpress.
> (Saw their announcement on Facebook )


----------



## Assimilator702

baskingshark said:


> Yeah i agree that KZ does very well at the budget range (< $50 USD) for IEMs (I like my ZS10 Pro a lot). But now that they are trying to muscle into the territory of > $100 USD range IEMs, it is not just about dumping many drivers into a shell and hoping to compete with the bigboys. At that pricing, the AS16 has to compete with other better tuned stuff and the consumers at that price range are more discerning due to the costs.
> I really hope the KZ engineers can focus on good tuning rather than quickly churning out multi BA/hybrid IEMs every few weeks.




KZ is heading toward the right direction with the AS12. I got my pair on Saturday and every genre I’ve thrown at it does not disappoint. Usually when I get an iem I can let it play for a few days and almost ignore it. But these AS12 I found myself listening for hours at a time over the last few days. They really are very well tuned. I would consider them similar to the AS10 but tuned much better.   It’s 95% of what I was hoping for after the treble murder CCA A10. However after 150 hours and some foam tips the A10 is now listenable. The AS12 sounded great out of the box and no foam tips needed to be tolerable. I’m using TRN Red Core tips which bring out the treble a bit and allow the bass to not be reduced over a small bore like a Sony Hybrid which I feel brings the treble down a bit too much. The A10 would have an overall bright sound signature while the AS12 errs on the side of warmth......but it only touches the line of warmth enough to not sound thin. I wouldn’t say rich.....but not thin. 

I will say this......changing to different tips has more of an affect than the different filters in the BGVP DMG. The AS12 is also much more enjoyable than the DMG which are not bad but a bit of a letdown considering the hype.

For anyone disappointed with the AS16 I can recommend the AS12 with confidence. If I were being picky I would increase the lower treble a touch so hihats have more bite, increase the midbass just a bit to give kick drums a bit more impact and toms to have more fullness. At times the upper end of mostly female vocals and some male  vocals can get a bit much on peaks. Bit it’s not a problem on most of the material I listen to. And it’s only when a vocalist really lets it rip. Otherwise nothing sticks out as a problem. If I knew about this iem when the A10 was announced I would have opted for the AS12 instead of getting both. But after sending my DM6 back I was itching for another 5 or 6 BA set. I have a feeling more people will agree with the tuning of the AS12 and it SHOULD be considered the step up from the AS10 which the C16 and A16 were not both being tuned so bright.


----------



## baskingshark

Assimilator702 said:


> KZ is heading toward the right direction with the AS12. I got my pair on Saturday and every genre I’ve thrown at it does not disappoint. Usually when I get an iem I can let it play for a few days and almost ignore it. But these AS12 I found myself listening for hours at a time over the last few days. They really are very well tuned. I would consider them similar to the AS10 but tuned much better.   It’s 95% of what I was hoping for after the treble murder CCA A10. However after 150 hours and some foam tips the A10 is now listenable. The AS12 sounded great out of the box and no foam tips needed to be tolerable. I’m using TRN Red Core tips which bring out the treble a bit and allow the bass to not be reduced over a small bore like a Sony Hybrid which I feel brings the treble down a bit too much. The A10 would have an overall bright sound signature while the AS12 errs on the side of warmth......but it only touches the line of warmth enough to not sound thin. I wouldn’t say rich.....but not thin.
> 
> I will say this......changing to different tips has more of an affect than the different filters in the BGVP DMG. The AS12 is also much more enjoyable than the DMG which are not bad but a bit of a letdown considering the hype.
> 
> For anyone disappointed with the AS16 I can recommend the AS12 with confidence. If I were being picky I would increase the lower treble a touch so hihats have more bite, increase the midbass just a bit to give kick drums a bit more impact and toms to have more fullness. At times the upper end of mostly female vocals and some male  vocals can get a bit much on peaks. Bit it’s not a problem on most of the material I listen to. And it’s only when a vocalist really lets it rip. Otherwise nothing sticks out as a problem. If I knew about this iem when the A10 was announced I would have opted for the AS12 instead of getting both. But after sending my DM6 back I was itching for another 5 or 6 BA set. I have a feeling more people will agree with the tuning of the AS12 and it SHOULD be considered the step up from the AS10 which the C16 and A16 were not both being tuned so bright.



Thanks for your impressions about the AS12, that's good to hear.
That's exactly my point where tuning is much more important than the number of drivers stuffed into an IEM (like the AS12 has 6 drivers compared to the 8 Driver AS16). And the AS12 is half the price of the supposedly more expensive and higher end AS16, but ends up sounding better (not only your review but it seems to be a general opinion among the forums/reviews).


----------



## igorneumann

Mlaihk said:


> I have been using the AS16 and ZS10pro for a week now.  The ZS10pro is absolutely fantastic!  I prefer the sound over the AS16, better defined bass and bass presence.  Treble seems to be done just right.  The AS16 sounded off to me.  The bass not quite there even with foam or AET07 tips. And seems too bright in the treble so the sound profile is quite thin.  Seems that zs10 pro is a lot more enjoyable than thr AS16 for me.
> 
> Also, the output ports on thr AS16 is way too long for me and I really can't get a proper fit with them despite tip rolling for the whole week with comply/spinfits/AET07/AET08/Final E of various sizes.  I guess AS16 is my first iem that I can't get a proper fit with.......



The AS16 is 100% BA, there is no Burn in for BA drivers, for what I understand.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jul 25, 2019)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I’v been listening the AS12 for 2 hours or so, and…
> … they are very similar to AS16. What I notice during that short time...
> 
> more bass
> ...



So ...no. AS12 is not for me, there is a too much treble somewhere at that sibilance range and disturbs me a lot. AS16 is my winner here - while bright and thin sounding (they are both), it has also very compact scene and it is easy to dive into the music with it.

EDIT: Hmm, after a longer time with silver/gold KZ cable on the as12, I must admit that their sound is coherent. And detailed. -- quality masters are required--  but still you have to get used to their bright sound anyway. Brighter treble than as16,


----------



## Mouseman

maxxevv said:


> Interesting new TWE from KZ.
> 
> Available from  KZ Official Store on Aliexpress.
> (Saw their announcement on Facebook )


A hybrid TWS with good battery life *and *"pacifier grade silicone" sleeves (What?)? Dammit, KZ - just take all my money now!


----------



## Assimilator702 (Jul 23, 2019)

I guess we all hear differently. The AS12 does not sound thin or bright to me at all. Only sibilant on a few tracks that I demoed. I used 20 of my test albums so a few tracks out of well over 200 is not bad. I have the AS10 and the AS12 has a significantly better tuning and is more musical. The fit is also much better for me with the AS12. I could see a bad dap or extremely bright amp messing up the sound signature to something brighter than it is.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Assimilator702 said:


> I have the AS12 and they are not sibilant 99.9% of the time. There are only a few tracks where it was a problem AT HIGH VOLUMES. The person you quoted.......did they mention the EXACT TRACKS and which parts of the tracks caused siblance? If they aren’t mentioning all the music then disregard their remarks. I didn’t mention specific tracks because the AS12 sounds good with everything. The only specific album that caused a bit of siblance in the vocals on certain portions of tracks was a Japanese remaster Of Dokken Under Lock And Key. The Japanese are known for making their remasters a bit on the bright side so that doesn’t help. The chorus of Applause where Lady Gaga is screaming at the top of her range stepped slightly over the line at high volume. Other than those 2 examples I found nothing offensive.
> 
> You watch in the coming weeks you will find more people will come to the conclusion that the AS12 is not tuned closer to the overly bright AS16 but closer to the AS10 however much more refined and musical. AS12 is a keeper and I highly recommend it for anyone that wants a musical all BA set under $100.



The AS12 isn't sibilant, it has more energy at that range which can turn into the clarity for some. For me it's rather fatiguing, maybe because it's not clear enough.


----------



## Slater

maxxevv said:


> Interesting new TWE from KZ.
> 
> Available from  KZ Official Store on Aliexpress.
> (Saw their announcement on Facebook )



If KZ doesn’t mess up the Bluetooth side of this product, they’re gonna sell a boatload of these. It’s literally the 1st hybrid TW earphone on the market. I wish there were codec specs, so we knew if it supported aptX, AAC, etc.


----------



## Dcell7

Slater said:


> If KZ doesn’t mess up the Bluetooth side of this product, they’re gonna sell a boatload of these. It’s literally the 1st hybrid TW earphone on the market. I wish there were codec specs, so we knew if it supported aptX, AAC, etc.



SBC and AAC are supported. According to the product spec pictures on Aliexpress.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000028142904.html


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> I think that's the thing, with the ZS10 PRO. They have just such an infectious sound signature. I keep going to this set, whenever I wanna just forget all the technicalities and just enjoy whatever music I'm in the mood for. I've never listened to a song on these and thought, "these sound terrible with this song". They may not sound perfect on every type of music, and there's always other sets that might sound better on this track or that track; but no matter what I listen to, they always let the music shine thru. Imho, that's a sign of a very good iem. I'm happily satisfied with the SQ, and I can't rec them enough to anyone who just wants to enjoy their music.


That's the way I feel about the ZS7!


----------



## Nimweth

igorneumann said:


> The AS16 is 100% BA, there is no Burn in for BA drivers, for what I understand.


I found the opposite to be true. With the CCA A10 the sound changed considerably after 100 hours burn in.


----------



## Bartig (Jul 23, 2019)

Ordered the KZ TWS! Very curious how it stands against my way too big wireless earphone collection.


----------



## Dcell7

Bartig said:


> Ordered the KZ TWS! Very curious how it stands against my way too big wireless earphone collection.



As always i am looking forward to your impressions. I have recommended your website to a co-worker today. He is not into TWS yet but maybe soon he will be


----------



## Bartig

Dcell7 said:


> As always i am looking forward to your impressions. I have recommended your website to a co-worker today. He is not into TWS yet but maybe soon he will be


That's awesome!


----------



## Nimweth

I have the ZSN Pro and the ZS7. Would it be worth getting the ZS10 Pro? I had the original ZS10 and didn't like it. The CCA C10 has the same drivers as the ZS10 Pro and I have that as well. I have read that the ZS10 Pro and ZSN Pro sound similar. Answers would be welcome!


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 23, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZSN Pro and the ZS7. Would it be worth getting the ZS10 Pro? I had the original ZS10 and didn't like it. The CCA C10 has the same drivers as the ZS10 Pro and I have that as well. I have read that the ZS10 Pro and ZSN Pro sound similar. Answers would be welcome!



I don't have the others but I have both ZS10 original and the ZS10 Pro and definitely they are different animals.

The build/ergonomics/fit/details/clarity/separation of instruments/resolution are improved on the ZS10 Pro. Maybe the only aspects the original ZS10 wins is a slightly bigger soundstage and a louder bass (but the bass of original ZS10 is muddy and not as responsive).

The ZS10 Pro IMHO is one of the best sub $50 IEM in the market today, very happy with it.


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> I don't have the others but I have both ZS10 original and the ZS10 Pro and definitely they are different animals.
> 
> The build/ergonomics/fit/details/clarity/separation of instruments/resolution are improved on the ZS10 Pro. Maybe the only aspects the original ZS10 wins is a slightly bigger soundstage and a louder bass (but the bass of original ZS10 is muddy and not as responsive).
> 
> The ZS10 Pro IMHO is one of the best sub $50 IEM in the market today, very happy with it.


Thank you. Ideally I would like someone to compare ZS7 with ZS10 Pro and C10.


----------



## Coldheart29 (Jul 23, 2019)

Just received my ZST pro, so i'll go ahead with my first impressions.

First of all, they look great. Love the colourfull shell, and the copper wire is really nice (one question tho, does it tend to oxidize and become green like the infamous transparent shure cable?). Packaging was nice too. The way they're packed and presented rivals that of other iems i've had that cost more, like the sony ex450 (minus the pouch, bat not a big deal considering these cost less than half the price), and it's a nicer packaging that that of the se215 IIRC.
The earpieces are also quite comfortable, and light. And the included eartips seem to work well, tho i think i'll get some foam ones, as i haven't used iems in almost 3 years, and before that i'd been using some se215s, with shure's foam tips, thus i'm no longer used at all to silicone tips.

Now, for the important  part: sound.
I wasn't expecting that rumble in the lower frequencies, but i like it, it doesn't sound overly enhanced. Mids can sound a bit dry at times, but are overall fine. And i quite like the highs. I was afraid i'd find an overly bright/harsh iem, but i'm pleased to say that while bright, the ZST doesn't seem to be overly so, nor does it feel particularly tiring. I've also noticed a decent imaging ability.
Isolation is great, on par with the shure se215, if not better.

As for music genres, it's working great with electronic/EDM. With metal it's been a bit hit and miss, mostly depending on which exact kind of metal you play. Tried listening to "Bohemian rhapsody", and it felt a bit thin, but not terrible by any means. Stuff like "supermassive black hole" by Muse sounds great on the other hand.

Now, as i said, these are just first impressions, will have to see how the ZST responds to burn in, then i'll give some final impressions after i'll have at least 20 hours on them. All in all, i'm really pleased by this purchase, and will very likely buy more KZ earphones. The zs10 pro are starting to look really tempting now.


----------



## Mouseman

My only concern with the TWS buds are the battery life -- it says only 3 hours...that doesn't work well for me, but I know that it probably takes more power for two drivers. Well, that and the fact that they call it on the Ali page a "Public Beta". I'm not sure I want to be a guinea pig.

Oh, who am I kidding....I'm sure I'll buy a pair.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mlaihk said:


> Nice!  But in this era, micro-usb charging port?  Seriously?  Come on.......



USB-C takes time to implement, for the vast majority of products offers no real benefit save for better durability, and adds unnecessarily to the cost. That's why it's usually reserved for more expensive stuff. Micro-usb is perfectly fine for this application.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Nimweth said:


> Thank you. Ideally I would like someone to compare ZS7 with ZS10 Pro and C10.



I don't have the zs7, but have both the C10 & ZS10Pro.

If they have the same drivers then they tuned differently.
C10 is more recessed or congested to my ears, bass is there but not as powerful as Pro, less kick too.
Vocals are more forward on the Pro.
Their differences are quite small but I prefer the Pro, its more musical and involving. C10 somewhat analytical by comparison.
In simple terms it sounds better...IMHO


----------



## igorneumann

maxxevv said:


> Interesting new TWE from KZ.
> 
> Available from  KZ Official Store on Aliexpress.
> (Saw their announcement on Facebook )



"Make it fully optimal" is the same slogan in the Mifo / TFZ TWS IEMs...

There is some link here to be found...


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> If KZ doesn’t mess up the Bluetooth side of this product, they’re gonna sell a boatload of these. It’s literally the 1st hybrid TW earphone on the market. I wish there were codec specs, so we knew if it supported aptX, AAC, etc.



Its being literally called "public beta version"... What could go wrong?
That said, the "Make it fully optimal" makes me believe they are being designed/manufactured at the same factory as the TFZ/MIFO.

BY the way, there is info about the codecs... SBC/AAC


----------



## Nimweth

Mybutthurts said:


> I don't have the zs7, but have both the C10 & ZS10Pro.
> 
> If they have the same drivers then they tuned differently.
> C10 is more recessed or congested to my ears, bass is there but not as powerful as Pro, less kick too.
> ...


Thank you. Yes, that's what I think of the C10, it's actually a bit boring compared to the ZS7, and it seems like the ZS10 Pro is similar to the ZS7 in that it is more exciting with a powerful bass. Probably not worth getting the 10 Pro, might go for something different like the NX7 or Spring 1!


----------



## steviewonderbread

Mybutthurts said:


> I don't have the zs7, but have both the C10 & ZS10Pro.
> 
> If they have the same drivers then they tuned differently.
> C10 is more recessed or congested to my ears, bass is there but not as powerful as Pro, less kick too.
> ...



I definitely agree with this analysis. I found the C10 to be "boring," not in the way that my Tin T2 are, where more detail shines through with lack of a V-shape, but rather just uninvolved. 



Nimweth said:


> Thank you. Ideally I would like someone to compare ZS7 with ZS10 Pro and C10.



With the ZS7, which I still do use, I notice a deeper and slightly less crowded soundstage than the ZS10P. However, the bass is less controlled and higher vocals are often uncomfortable in comparison.


----------



## Nimweth

steviewonderbread said:


> I definitely agree with this analysis. I found the C10 to be "boring," not in the way that my Tin T2 are, where more detail shines through with lack of a V-shape, but rather just uninvolved.
> 
> 
> 
> With the ZS7, which I still do use, I notice a deeper and slightly less crowded soundstage than the ZS10P. However, the bass is less controlled and higher vocals are often uncomfortable in comparison.


That's great, I actually like the bass on the ZS7 a lot, so I will not get the ZS10 Pro.


----------



## citral23

I have ZSN pro, ZS7 and ZS10 pro, the ZSN pro is just ok for its price but not much more imo. Its bass is 1) too much and 2) waayyyy toooo sloooowwwwwwww and you can't listen to it loud it gets very screamy and fatiguing. It's reserved for jogging, walking in the rain etc...

The ZS7 is quite nice on distorted guitars and EDM, but not so much on acoustic music for me, mids sound "plastic" or "unnatural" on trumpet, sax etc. I also have a problem with the fit, that my ears hurt after a few hours (like 2-3 hours) because the shell is rubbing against them and they get hot/red.

The ZS10 pro is very similar to the ZS7 but has a bit less sub I think, bass is tighter and faster. Otherwise quite similar, but I can wear them 6 hours no problem, fit is perfect. If I had to own only one it would be that one over ZS7.

A bigger difference to the ZS7, rather than a ZS10, would be a Bqeyz KB100, that sounds much more natural and is much nicer (to me) for acoustic music. Altho maybe slightly boring (but very non-fatiguing so there's that). It is more source dependant than KZ, tho, sounds kind of dull with my phone, but nice and lively with my zishan. YMMV. 

Maybe other BQEYZ models but I don't know them so can't really comment.


----------



## Nimweth

steviewonderbread said:


> I definitely agree with this analysis. I found the C10 to be "boring," not in the way that my Tin T2 are, where more detail shines through with lack of a V-shape, but rather just uninvolved.
> 
> 
> 
> With the ZS7, which I still do use, I notice a deeper and slightly less crowded soundstage than the ZS10P. However, the bass is less controlled and higher vocals are often uncomfortable in comparison.


Thank you. I think I will stick with the ZS7, and look for something different.


----------



## actorlife

Looks like a amazon lightning sale on the ZST in an hour.


----------



## actorlife

Anyone think the T1 TWS are the ZST, but wireless?


----------



## Slater (Jul 23, 2019)

actorlife said:


> Anyone think the T1 TWS are the ZST, but wireless?



Sure looks that way!

Like all other KZ Bluetooth products, I’ll wait for others to try it 1st (as badly as I want to order it). I’ll be very curious once the reports start coming in though.


----------



## Assimilator702 (Jul 24, 2019)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> The AS12 isn't sibilant, it has more energy at that range which can turn into the clarity for some. For me it's rather fatiguing, maybe because it's not clear enough.



It’s funny you mention that. I’m listening to the AS10 right now with a few test tracks and there is a significant darkness to the treble. In fact while the overall treble range seems to be represented without anything missing there are many example I find where the AS10 doesn’t convey very important treble information. Listen to the Eminem track Good Guy off the Kamikaze release. At around the 9 second mark Eminem breathes in through his nose between words. The upper range of the breathe sound is missing or low enough where I don’t hear it on the AS10. That’s not an issue with any of my other sets. The defining identity of the AS10 which is a relaxed treble is its fatal flaw now that I hear this. Also listening to the Hiromi Trio Alive album much of the high frequency info that gives drums their attack sound when the stick hits the head is missing. The upper range of the snare drum is missing. The meat of the drum is loud but there’s no accompanying snare buzz. Also the China cymbal should be more forward in the mix and it’s not with the AS10. The upper midbass is also too loud. Anthony Jackson’s bass really sticks out which will lead to fatigue. I’m picturing the curve as I’m listening to music and it looks like a set of stairs with the midbass being the loudest followed by the midrange 3 dbs lower followed by the upper mids through the point of the treble cutoff. The lower midrange through the treble is simply too separated from the remainder of the spectrum. I honestly can’t see myself ever reaching for the AS10 ever again. Why would I when something as cheap as the CCA CA4 doesn’t have this problem?

AS12 exhibits none of these problems. While the AS10 has a relaxed character for a variety of music if there’s a good amount of treble info it’s not the best choice. I can see the AS10 being a good choice for slow paced Classic Rock or Folk music but anything energetic with a good amount of treble energy it’s not on my short list anymore. I’m not trying to say that the AS10 are terrible but if you compare some of the examples I mentioned I’m not sure how you can say the AS12 is inferior to the AS10. My hearing tells me the AS10 is seriously lacking in areas where the AS12 is not.


----------



## Dcell7

igorneumann said:


> "Make it fully optimal" is the same slogan in the Mifo / TFZ TWS IEMs...
> 
> There is some link here to be found...




The case does have a Mifo/TFZ vibe design-wise. Especially with the metal hinge.


----------



## BrunoC

The KZ AS10 needs a bright source. If I use a warm source the sound is very mid-bassy with ultra-recessed treble. Not good at all.

The KZ ZS7 would be better with a more extended treble, it misses a good sparkle, which the ZS10 Pro has. The ZS10 Pro is sublime thanks to the good coherence. I don't feel missing a thing from subbass to high treble.


----------



## igorneumann

Dcell7 said:


> The case does have a Mifo/TFZ vibe design-wise. Especially with the metal hinge.



Also, the chamfer is about the same.
I bought it.


----------



## igorneumann

actorlife said:


> Anyone think the T1 TWS are the ZST, but wireless?



The shell is probably derived from it but the dd driver is way smaller.


----------



## igorneumann

Slater said:


> Sure looks that way!
> 
> Like all other KZ Bluetooth products, I’ll wait for others to try it 1st (as badly as I want to order it). I’ll be very curious once the reports start coming in though.



I couldnt resist and got it... Will let you guys know when it arrives.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

igorneumann said:


> Its being literally called "public beta version"... What could go wrong?
> That said, the "Make it fully optimal" makes me believe they are being designed/manufactured at the same factory as the TFZ/MIFO.
> 
> BY the way, there is info about the codecs... SBC/AAC



KZ official store's description reads as public beta. I give this a benefit of doubt due to KZ's history of bad translation. Else, it's just a half-baked cookie dished out by KZ.


----------



## Slater

igorneumann said:


> The shell is probably derived from it but the dd driver is way smaller.



All of these TW earphones use small drivers.

Due to space limitations (is requiring the battery, magnets, circuit board, etc), I think 90% of them use ~6-ish mm micro drivers. Otherwise, everything wouldn’t fit inside the shell.


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> All of these TW earphones use small drivers.
> 
> Due to space limitations (is requiring the battery, magnets, circuit board, etc), I think 90% of them use ~6-ish mm micro drivers. Otherwise, everything wouldn’t fit inside the shell.



I know, so we cant expect it to sound like a ZST,
just trying to adjust expectations.

I think I saw some 8mm TWS around but 6mm looks to be the standard.

I hope they can squish some decent bass out of that, would hate to HAVE to buy the KZ T2 just because of its 8mm driver and its twin BA.

That one will be good, but will have killer highs. That would be fixed in the v2 but unfortunately, will let a complete void in the highs around the 4000hz, everyone rushes to buy the unfixed V1 that everyone complained about, not long ago.

The T3 will be good, with its 4 BA drivers and 8.5mm dd but would be too big to actually stay in your ear, it will also have pointy corners that will stab you at each step.

Then the T4 isnt wireless at all, everyone scratches their heads.

3 new brands appear on the market with the T1 and T3 with slightly different outer plate. One of them lacks BA drivers, some find out too late.

They finally launch the GT1 thats what everyone expected the T4 to be, it lose 2 BAs but it fit human ears.

Ps.: Spoiler alert


----------



## Slater

To everyone ordering the KZ T1 - consider getting the ZSE deal (where you add $2 to the cost of the T1).

The ZSE not a phenomenal earphone, but for $2 it's a steal and makes a great gift.


----------



## steviewonderbread

Amazon lightning deal has ES4 for $14. Worth it? I see mixed perceptions of it either being too harsh or not enough treble (??)


----------



## actorlife

steviewonderbread said:


> Amazon lightning deal has ES4 for $14. Worth it? I see mixed perceptions of it either being too harsh or not enough treble (??)


Seems like they mixed the ZST and es4. Was supposed to be ZST. Nope never heard the es4. Get the ZST.


----------



## igorneumann

steviewonderbread said:


> Amazon lightning deal has ES4 for $14. Worth it? I see mixed perceptions of it either being too harsh or not enough treble (??)



I love the ES4, and I think it was the best $15 (Aliexpress) earphone before the ZSN came to town.
It does have enough treble.


----------



## actorlife (Jul 23, 2019)

Yes the ZST is on sale $14 Great treble and great tight bass:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N3U9SJG/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_b31nDb9BXPW8N


----------



## auraldesire95

(...probably already been posted) KZ ZS10 Pro in Royal Blue is available to order in the UK! https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40000...d=5294amp-79VmJ4-WSoY_W3DON7fxLg1563916206915


----------



## raccoon city

steviewonderbread said:


> Amazon lightning deal has ES4 for $14. Worth it? I see mixed perceptions of it either being too harsh or not enough treble (??)


That's a good price.
It's about $12 on AliExpress.
I don't find the ES4 to be harsh.
It is lacking annoying treble, though, which is why I like it so much.


----------



## harry501501

Wonder if KZ will ever delve in to a ceramic driver or planar magnetic?!


----------



## Slater

harry501501 said:


> Wonder if KZ will ever delve in to a ceramic driver or planar magnetic?!



I’d like to see them delve back into full size headphones (like the LP2):


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I have the CCA C10 and the KZ ZS7. Would the ZS10 Pro be a waste of money to buy?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 23, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the CCA C10 and the KZ ZS7. Would the ZS10 Pro be a waste of money to buy?


It depends, as usual.
I do not have KZ ZS7 to comment.
CCA C10 is definitely more timid, analytical, warmer with more mid-bass (it suits more for classical music) compared to energetic ZS10 pro that, in my subjective opinion, suits more for electronic music.
I feel the best answer that I can give - if you like the energetic ZSN signature and want more resolution and tighter punchy bass - then ZS10 pro may be worthwhile.


----------



## macky112

Nimweth said:


> Thank you. Ideally I would like someone to compare ZS7 with ZS10 Pro and C10.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the CCA C10 and the KZ ZS7. Would the ZS10 Pro be a waste of money to buy?



I’ll compare the ZS7 and the ZS10 Pro:
- ZS10 Pro is the more balanced of the two, ZS7 has more bass and less treble. Mids are similar but may sound more forward on the ZS10 Pro due to its treble
- I feel the clarity and the resolution are very similar, I can hear all of the details but each iem presents those details at different loudness
- I feel ZS7 has a deeper soundstage and ZS10 Pro has a wider soundstage
- oh that ZS7 sub bass!
- I feel their tuning differences can be achieved via EQing

So if you don’t have either one, and if you are a bass head, get ZS7, otherwise get ZS10 Pro. If you already have one of these, they are similar enough to be what I would call EQ siblings

Just my humble unprofessional comparo XD


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the CCA C10 and the KZ ZS7. Would the ZS10 Pro be a waste of money to buy?



Kz zs10 pro is NEVER a waste of money, buy it.


----------



## igorneumann

Slater said:


> I’d like to see them delve back into full size headphones (like the LP2):



I would love to see them making their own designs...

For what I understood just the LP3 wasn't a copycat and that one was awful.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Assimilator702 said:


> It’s funny you mention that. I’m listening to the AS10 right now with a few test tracks and there is a significant darkness to the treble. In fact while the overall treble range seems to be represented without anything missing there are many example I find where the AS10 doesn’t convey very important treble information. Listen to the Eminem track Good Guy off the Kamikaze release. At around the 9 second mark Eminem breathes in through his nose between words. The upper range of the breathe sound is missing or low enough where I don’t hear it on the AS10. That’s not an issue with any of my other sets. The defining identity of the AS10 which is a relaxed treble is its fatal flaw now that I hear this. Also listening to the Hiromi Trio Alive album much of the high frequency info that gives drums their attack sound when the stick hits the head is missing. The upper range of the snare drum is missing. The meat of the drum is loud but there’s no accompanying snare buzz. Also the China cymbal should be more forward in the mix and it’s not with the AS10. The upper midbass is also too loud. Anthony Jackson’s bass really sticks out which will lead to fatigue. I’m picturing the curve as I’m listening to music and it’s an upside down U with the upper midbass at the beginning of the peak.
> 
> AS12 exhibits none of these problems. While the AS10 has a relaxed character for a variety of music if there’s a good amount of treble info it’s not the best choice. I can see the AS10 being a good choice for slow paced Classic Rock or Folk music but anything energetic with a good amount of treble energy it’s not on my short list anymore. I’m not trying to say that the AS10 are terrible but if you compare some of the examples I mentioned I’m not sure how you can say the AS12 is inferior to the AS10. My hearing tells me the AS10 is lacking in areas where the AS12 is not.



You are right, it's about genres we are listening to, about our preferences. Also our sources are crucial.
For rock sub-genres I like, The upside down U character is very listenable. I could see that the AS12 would be suitable for anything else.


----------



## Nimweth

macky112 said:


> I’ll compare the ZS7 and the ZS10 Pro:
> - ZS10 Pro is the more balanced of the two, ZS7 has more bass and less treble. Mids are similar but may sound more forward on the ZS10 Pro due to its treble
> - I feel the clarity and the resolution are very similar, I can hear all of the details but each iem presents those details at different loudness
> - I feel ZS7 has a deeper soundstage and ZS10 Pro has a wider soundstage
> ...


Yes, it's the sub bass that clinches it, I'm not a 'basshead', but electronic music sounds amazing on the ZS7. I have the Tin T3 for when I am listening to classical music and other genres.


----------



## archdawg (Jul 24, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> I enjoy my CCA CA4 and ZSN just as much as I do $1200 headphones.


+1
Same here with my El Cheapos. More often than not even the EDR1 or 2 (with some little EQing) seem to resonate better with the moment than more sophisticated IEMs that cost me up to a couple hundred times as much. Viva variety ...

BTW, one (or more?) BAs in the right earpiece of my ZS7 suddenly stopped working. I didn't drop them, no issues with humidity or sweat either but there's almost no more highs/treble and way less upper mids. I checked the cable, ran some sine sweeps through them and I guess it's the 30095 that died. I didn't like the treble on the 7s too much anyway and with a bunch of Knowles 30095 lying around here I might as well replace them on both sides. I ordered a new set already, can't live without those bangers, lol.


----------



## nxnje

Assimilator702 said:


> But if you  DO hear something "missing" with the ZS10 PRO it would only be when directly compared to something with a different sound signature. Don't get caught up in the head games that come from proponents of expensive gear being vastly superior to budget gear. I enjoy my CCA CA4 and ZSN just as much as I do $1200 headphones.



I really miss something when i listen to the CA4. It really seems like i'm missing something but i don't understand what.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the CCA C10 and the KZ ZS7. Would the ZS10 Pro be a waste of money to buy?



Imho, ZS10 Pro is exceptional. Compared to the C10 it's definitely more "rock'n roll". The ZS7 howewer has my heart: i mainly listen to electronic music and the ZS7 is godness.
The ZS10 Pro have more treble and more details compared to the ZS7 which is warmer. Soundstage is bigger in the ZS7 but instrument separation feels a bit better in the ZS10 Pro.
They are superb but if it was me, i wouldn't buy it having C10 and ZS7 already and i would maybe buy something else (T3, CCA A10 and similar) just to have somethinf "really different".



Nimweth said:


> Yes, it's the sub bass that clinches it, I'm not a 'basshead', but electronic music sounds amazing on the ZS7. I have the Tin T3 for when I am listening to classical music and other genres.


Me 2. Sub bass is just amazing in the ZS7.
T3 are also superb and very musicals, perfect for orchestral music.



archdawg said:


> +1
> Same here with my El Cheapos. More often than not even the EDR1 or 2 (with some little EQing) seem to resonate better with the moment than more sophisticated IEMs that cost me up to a couple hundred times as much. Viva variety ...



Some days i just leave my other IEMs on my desk (T3, ZS7, ZS10 Pro, CCA A10..) and pick the EDR1.
Many friends always ask me why do i pick a 3$ earphone while i got some more expensive and more technically capable ones, and i always answer i do not know.
EDR1s really have something special.. Single DD is a lifestyle


----------



## youngarthur

Mouseman said:


> My only concern with the TWS buds are the battery life -- it says only 3 hours...that doesn't work well for me, but I know that it probably takes more power for two drivers. Well, that and the fact that they call it on the Ali page a "Public Beta". I'm not sure I want to be a guinea pig.
> 
> Oh, who am I kidding....I'm sure I'll buy a pair.


Ive ordered a pair, should be interesting.


----------



## baskingshark

archdawg said:


> +1
> Same here with my El Cheapos. More often than not even the EDR1 or 2 (with some little EQing) seem to resonate better with the moment than more sophisticated IEMs that cost me up to a couple hundred times as much. Viva variety ...
> 
> BTW, one (or more?) BAs in the right earpiece of my ZS7 suddenly stopped working. I didn't drop them, no issues with humidity or sweat either but there's almost no more highs/treble and way less upper mids. I checked the cable, ran some sine sweeps through them and I guess it's the 30095 that died. I didn't like the treble on the 7s too much anyway and with a bunch of Knowles 30095 lying around here I might as well replace them on both sides. I ordered a new set already, can't live without those bangers, lol.



Wow I haven't heard of drivers dying so fast within a year. QC issue? In my experience, it is usually the cable that dies before the driver but seems you have checked the cable.


----------



## Slater

igorneumann said:


> I would love to see them making their own designs...
> 
> For what I understood just the LP3 wasn't a copycat and that one was awful.



Yes, I own the LP3. It is the worst KZ product I’ve ever owned.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> Yes, I own the LP3. It is the worst KZ product I’ve ever owned.



Erk. That's saying a lot considering the ED12 and ZSE are a thing, lol.


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> Some days i just leave my other IEMs on my desk (T3, ZS7, ZS10 Pro, CCA A10..) and pick the EDR1.
> Many friends always ask me why do i pick a 3$ earphone while i got some more expensive and more technically capable ones, and i always answer i do not know.
> EDR1s really have something special...



I agree, same with me!


----------



## Slater (Jul 24, 2019)

B9Scrambler said:


> Erk. That's saying a lot considering the ED12 and ZSE are a thing, lol.



I’d happily take my ZSE any day over the LP3. The LP3 is on another level!

Just to give you an example, the cups have no adjustability at all. You have to deform and bend the headband to get the cups to fit your ears (unless of course your head is shaped like a perfect cube or you are Johnny 5). But that’s a problem, because the plastic cups (which are attached to the headband via a single, tiny screw that comes pre-stripped from the factory) are made from incredibly cheap and brittle plastic. But that’s OK you say, you can take the shell apart and replace the stripped screw with something beefier (like a nut, bolt, and some washers for extra reinforcement). But then you find the whole shell is glued together with copious amounts of crusty brown epoxy, that practically fuses the brittle plastic together.

Oh, and they give you a few different pads, like big foam Grado style pads and also some smaller foam pads plus pleather pads. Which is actually a really cool idea (like the Philips A5 Pro’s multiple different pads to change the sound). The problem is that when you go to try and change the default foam pads, you find that they glued the foam pads on. So you must tear and destroy the pads to try any of the other included pads (not to mention meticulously remove the billion tiny glue and torn foam remnants from the cups). Because if you don’t remove all of the bits, the other pads won’t fit on properly.

And that’s just a taste of the build quality. I won’t even go into the sound.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Slater said:


> I’d happily take my ZSE any day over the LP3. The LP3 is on another level!
> 
> Just to give you an example, the cups have no adjustability at all. You have to deform and bend the headband to get the cups to fit your ears (unless of course your head is shaped like a perfect cube or you are Johnny 5). But that’s a problem, because the plastic cups (which are attached to the headband via a single, tiny screw that comes pre-stripped from the factory) are made from incredibly cheap and brittle plastic. But that’s OK you say, you can take the shell apart and replace the screw with something beefier like a nut, bolt, and some washers for extra reinforcement. But then you find the whole shell is glued together with epoxy.
> 
> And that’s just a taste of the build quality. I won’t even go into the sound.



Lmao! They sound like they're terrible O_O


----------



## archdawg

baskingshark said:


> Wow I haven't heard of drivers dying so fast within a year. QC issue? In my experience, it is usually the cable that dies before the driver but seems you have checked the cable.


Yeah, I double checked everything but sh.t like this just happens once in a while, no big deal. As I've posted before I've had some issues with a nasty resonant peak around 7.9 kHz anyway that wouldn't go away even after a couple hundred hours of playtime and so I see it as a sort of invitation to replace those 30095s on both sides with something nicer. Once I'm at it I might as well check the crossover in order to extend the treble a bit. The ZS7 are well worth a bit of extra work IMO, especially on the treble. 
I'll report back.


----------



## steviewonderbread

For anyone looking, the blue-plated ZS10 Pro are showing up on Amazon for me (USA). So tempting to get one as a gift or backup


----------



## Assimilator702

Nimweth said:


> I found the opposite to be true. With the CCA A10 the sound changed considerably after 100 hours burn in.


I found the same thing with my pair. Absolutely unlistenable when I first got them. They weren’t even to my satisfaction after 80 hours. I put an extra 80 hours on them and I noticed a big difference. Now I can use silicone tips when I needed foam tips at first.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 24, 2019)

My AS10 sounds dark and  natural but with harshness in my Zishan Z1. Harshness is the treble I'm hearing? I'm not impressed.

Edit: it was the production of the album I was listening to at the time. It's still a very dark iem.


----------



## theresanarc

I've been recommended the ZS3/ZS4/ZS4e (or 3e?) on here for really good noise isolation since the ZSN I bought isn't doing a good job of isolating.

Out of these three, which would have the most forward sounding and flatter or at least not bass-heavy sound signature?


----------



## HungryPanda

ZS3e would do the job nicely


----------



## Slater (Jul 24, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> I've been recommended the ZS3/ZS4/ZS4e (or 3e?) on here for really good noise isolation since the ZSN I bought isn't doing a good job of isolating.
> 
> Out of these three, which would have the most forward sounding and flatter or at least not bass-heavy sound signature?



All 3 of those have ear plug-like isolation, but they all have bass heavy signatures (deep V and L shaped signatures). It’s kinda the hallmark of the ZS3 & ZS4 series.

So if you’re looking for a flat signature and/or forward mids, those are about the polar opposite of what you want.

_Update: For flat signature that’s not bass heavy, I’d consider something like KB Ear F1 or Audiosense T180. Both have great isolation too, as they’re single BA IEMs. T180 especially, as it uses a Knowles driver and is an excellent value._


----------



## actorlife (Jul 24, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> I've been recommended the ZS3/ZS4/ZS4e (or 3e?) on here for really good noise isolation since the ZSN I bought isn't doing a good job of isolating.
> 
> Out of these three, which would have the most forward sounding and flatter or at least not bass-heavy sound signature?


Go for the KZ ZST not over bassy just enough. I like the ZS3 and it's bassy but not overly Beats bassy. Then there is always EQ to turn down the bass on any IEM. Have fun.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

My girlfriend can't find the EDR1 I let her borrow. A roommate probably stole it. So I bought another! $5! #KZAddict


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> My girlfriend can't find the EDR1 I let her borrow. A roommate probably stole it. So I bought another! $5! #KZAddict



No zs10 pro for her?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 25, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> No zs10 pro for her?


She's using the Rock Zircon's I gave her and seems happy with them. She only knows about Apple...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

OMG, Zeos just reviewed the KZ ZS10!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 25, 2019)

Does anyone know what cables make the AS10 sound better? It has to be the most professional (!) and best sounding (?) KZ  I have and I want to make it better! TIA!


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jul 25, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does anyone know what cables make the AS10 sound better? It has to be the most professional (!) and best sounding (?) KZ  I have and I want to make it better! TIA!


Yes, it's best sounding KZ, IMHO. I found the silver cable to be a better choice than original. It tightens the bass and improves a transition between mids and heights. I have ordered a second pair of the AS10, before they make a new revision 

EDIT: But still waiting for a silver/gold cable with B-pin...


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jul 25, 2019)

theresanarc said:


> I've been recommended the ZS3/ZS4/ZS4e (or 3e?) on here for really good noise isolation since the ZSN I bought isn't doing a good job of isolating.
> 
> Out of these three, which would have the most forward sounding and flatter or at least not bass-heavy sound signature?



ZS3e is extremly bassy iem, better with foam tips. I always prefered original ZS3.


----------



## PhonoPhi

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Yes, it's best sounding KZ, IMHO. I found the silver cable to be a better choice than original. It tightens the bass and improves a transition between mids and heights. I have ordered a second pair of the AS10, before they make a new revision
> 
> EDIT: But still waiting for a silver/gold cable with B-pin...


I also ordered second AS10 almost right away after I got the first one (just in case) 

AS10 has a really nice signature to my preference - warm yet resolving.
Since I liked AS10 bass, I actually preferred an original cable (~0.8 Ohm) to low-impedance ones and was using it unbalanced with my DAP.

Even more,  adding a 20-Ohm impedance adapter (aka resistor) was working fairly well to give a bit more warmth to my ears (CCA A10 in contrast did not sound great at all with this adapter).

If tighter bass is the preference and more resolution - CCA C16 does it very well and slowly replaced AS10 as my primary IEM.


----------



## Mybutthurts

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does anyone know what cables make the AS10 sound better? It has to be the most professional (!) and best sounding (?) KZ  I have and I want to make it better! TIA!





I have a Nicehck cable from AliExpress and a KZ upgrade cable. Both are good.
Would post links but these fail when posting on my phone. So search for :-

NICEHCK 8 Core Silver Plated Upgrade Cable 3.5/2.5/4.4mm

KZ ZSN Cable Oxygen Free Copper C Style Pink Gold Headphone Original Wire.
Option on KZ to choose B type.

The KZ cable was discussed earlier on this thread, quite good for the price

Both are reasonable prices. IMHO


----------



## 40lb (Jul 25, 2019)

Just got the ZS10 Pro and I'm a believer, the first impression is a good one so far.


----------



## loomisjohnson

40lb said:


> Just got the ZS10 Pro and I'm a believer, the first impression is a good one so far.


every new kz model generates gushing praise before going going through more critical revaluation--it's a natural law. i do observe that the zs10 pro has had an unusually long honeymoon period--usually it's a month or so before sentiment changes.


----------



## Mlaihk

loomisjohnson said:


> every new kz model generates gushing praise before going going through more critical revaluation--it's a natural law. i do observe that the zs10 pro has had an unusually long honeymoon period--usually it's a month or so before sentiment changes.


Also because something better comes along so quickly.  I have hoped from B50>Andromeda>Andromeda S>T800>as16>zs10pro>NX7 in matter of 25 days


----------



## archdawg

40lb said:


> Just got the ZS10 Pro and I'm a believer, the first impression is a good one so far.


Since you're having some nice IEMs in your sig ... how do the 10Pro compare to the Solaris / Andros?



loomisjohnson said:


> i do observe that the zs10 pro has had an unusually long honeymoon period--usually it's a month or so before sentiment changes.


My honeymoon with the 10Pros got delayed since they only started to really shine after the first couple weeks but finally pianos sound like pianos and more natural than on my ZS7. The latter ones sound distinctively more coherent to my ears though, especially obvious with fast transients (drums, percussion, ...).


----------



## 40lb

loomisjohnson said:


> every new kz model generates gushing praise before going going through more critical revaluation--it's a natural law. i do observe that the zs10 pro has had an unusually long honeymoon period--usually it's a month or so before sentiment changes.


I normally ignore the hype some IEMs get and when I heard about this one I brushed it off at first. In the end, when I saw how cheap I could get a cable (2.5'm) and the IEMs for, I then thought I won't cry over wasting that much if they are bad. 

Now back to listening.


----------



## 40lb

archdawg said:


> Since you're having some nice IEMs in your sig ... how do the 10Pro compare to the Solaris / Andros?


Give me some time, I'll try to do a short comparison before the month ends.


----------



## steviewonderbread

loomisjohnson said:


> every new kz model generates gushing praise before going going through more critical revaluation--it's a natural law. i do observe that the zs10 pro has had an unusually long honeymoon period--usually it's a month or so before sentiment changes.


What's impressive about this iteration is that they outperform KZ's own similar-price options, but with better comfort. They are just pleasant to listen to and cost-effective. Those 2 criteria will make a lot of people happy, including myself. I'm sure a new flavor of the month will pop up soon though, this is KZ after all.


----------



## Slater

loomisjohnson said:


> every new kz model generates gushing praise before going going through more critical revaluation--it's a natural law. i do observe that the zs10 pro has had an unusually long honeymoon period--usually it's a month or so before sentiment changes.



Meh, my sentiments won’t change; the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 were my favorite KZs from the 1st time I heard them, and they still are.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> Meh, my sentiments won’t change; the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 were my favorite KZs from the 1st time I heard them, and they still are.



Out of the box the ZS10Pro was for the price stunning and still is.


----------



## Mybutthurts

40lb said:


> Just got the ZS10 Pro and I'm a believer, the first impression is a good one so far.



Liking that cable.

Where did you get it?


----------



## Hououin Kyouma

Should I buy ZS10 PRO if I love ES4's bass, its tame treble but need more forward mids? Thanks  I really love ES4's sound signature (with silver cable and spiral dot tips)


----------



## Zerohour88

loomisjohnson said:


> every new kz model generates gushing praise before going going through more critical revaluation--it's a natural law. i do observe that the zs10 pro has had an unusually long honeymoon period--usually it's a month or so before sentiment changes.





Slater said:


> Meh, my sentiments won’t change; the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 were my favorite KZs from the 1st time I heard them, and they still are.



FWIW, crin rated the ZS10 Pro as "not bad". If a fervent KZ hater can like/not hate it, it stands up to the "hype", I'd say.


----------



## Tweeters

Price difference aside, can anyone compare the AS12 and ZS10 Pro?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

xxAMAROKxx said:


> So ...no. AS12 is not for me, there is a too much treble somewhere at that sibilance range and disturbs me a lot. AS16 is my winner here - while bright and thin sounding (they are both), it has also very compact scene and it is easy to dive into the music with it.
> 
> EDIT: Hmm, after a longer time with silver/gold KZ cable on the as12, I must admit that their sound is coherent. And detailed. -- quality masters are required--  but still you have to get used to their bright sound anyway. Brighter treble than as16,


----------



## 40lb

Mybutthurts said:


> Liking that cable.
> 
> Where did you get it?


Ordered both from Linsoul's through Amazon.


----------



## harry501501

Slater said:


> I’d like to see them delve back into full size headphones (like the LP2):



Didn't even know they did headphones?!


----------



## Slater

harry501501 said:


> Didn't even know they did headphones?!



Yeah, they’ve done a few headphones over the years. Nothing recently though.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Mybutthurts said:


> Liking that cable.
> 
> Where did you get it?


Looks like it's the Tripowin C8 8-core from Linsoul.  Links for Amazon and AliExpress here.


----------



## KimChee

Still loving the KZ ZS7, especially with cable 130


----------



## Slater

thebigredpolos said:


> Looks like it's the Tripowin C8 8-core from Linsoul.  Links for Amazon and AliExpress here.



FYI, that silver plated copper ‘tinsel wire’ is the same type of wire KZ uses on its 8-wire flat braided cable.


----------



## Tonymac136

How do the ZS10 Pro compare to the original ZS10? I need another pair of budget IEMs like a hole in the head and it's taking money out of the HD6XX fund but I'd really like to know.


----------



## baskingshark

Tonymac136 said:


> How do the ZS10 Pro compare to the original ZS10? I need another pair of budget IEMs like a hole in the head and it's taking money out of the HD6XX fund but I'd really like to know.



Hi i gave a short summary about the difference between the original ZS10 and ZS10 Pro a few days ago:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3070#post-15078401

The ZS10 Pro is a big upgrade in sound, clarity and fit/comfort from the original. I actually have given my original ZS10 away after i got my ZS10 Pro. YMMV, but IMHO the Pro it is one of the best sub $50 usd IEMs in the market.


----------



## Makahl

For the people playing with ZS10 Pro vents, is there a way to achieve the ZS7's sub-bass with some tape modding? I was almost getting a ZS7 but I ended up picking another ZS10 Pro in blue and tbh the only thing I miss on 10 Pro is a tad more sub-bass extension (oomph) for electronic music.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> For the people playing with ZS10 Pro vents, is there a way to achieve the ZS7's sub-bass with some tape modding? I was almost getting a ZS7 but I ended up picking another ZS10 Pro in blue and tbh the only thing I miss on 10 Pro is a tad more sub-bass extension (oomph) for electronic music.



Put a small piece of 3M micropore tape over the front vent (ie the little round white and black bullseye looking vent next to the nozzle).

Be aware that this vent relieves ear canal pressure, so covering that vent  may cause some additional driver flex (ie crinkle sound). If that happens, just hold your mouth open while inserting your earphones or use foam tips.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 25, 2019)

I just ordered the entry-level Audiosense T180 for $35US. It's time for me to start seeing how KZ stacks up to other brands. #AKZHolicForNotMuchLonger?


----------



## Coldheart29

Sooo, i'm back with something like 15 hours on the ZST. Not much by any means, but i'm starting to getting a better idea about the sound signature.

I've been playing a bit with EQing, and it turns out that by lowering the 3.5k and 4k band by about 4db i pretty much get the kind of sound i was looking for, just doing that removes any kind of fatigue-inducing harshness the ZST had. Been trying some other bands too, but it looks like those two are the biggest "issue", moving other things in the 2.5k to 8k range would more be about changing the sound towards what i normally seek, thus going against the reason i'm looking into brighter earphones, so i'm disregarding these other bands.
So, keeping that in mind, i started doing some research, and it looks like the ZSR might have such a sound signature that i'd get what i'm looking for, possibly without using any EQ tuning (i'm the kind of guys that preferes to avoid using EQ as much as possible), since both from reviews and from frequency graphs it seems they have a nice steep dip right in the 3.5k to 4.5k area.
Would anyone that has both the ZST and ZSR agree with my assumption?
Also, if that's the case, what would be the path in upgrading along the KZ line? From what i've read around the zs10 pro might be a bit too bright for me.


----------



## pbui44

LaughMoreDaily said:


> #AKZHolicForNotMuchLonger?



Join the club.  Just kidding, you can never leave KZ!!!!


----------



## PhonoPhi

pbui44 said:


> Join the club.  Just kidding, you can never leave KZ!!!!


Then there is always CCA


----------



## Aparker2005

Hey guys. Wife is wanting ear pods for her iPhone. Not having researched wireless or Bluetooth headphones, does kz have anything you recommend? 

Preferably not iem style like I use for my drums ie zs10 pro, but something maybe a little less intrusive? Open to all options but I've fallen in love with kz so thought they may have something. Thanks!


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> OMG, Zeos just reviewed the KZ ZS10!



Yeah, it was a few days ago, at least. I'd love to get a set of these too, but the housings are sooo big! I like smaller iems with long stems for comfort. I just don't think these would fit me well.


----------



## courierdriver

40lb said:


> Just got the ZS10 Pro and I'm a believer, the first impression is a good one so far.


You have a nice source shown in your pic, and the other sources and gear you show in your sig, are also excellent. Enjoy your ZS10 PRO! From my first listen, I thought they sounded excellent, and VERY addictive. I've got many hours on mine, and I think they sound better as they break in, and time goes on. Listened to them again last night for over 3.5 hours. I have many other iems and headphones I could pick up and listen to...but these are always my go to. They got the tuning right with these, and the fit is great! It's saying something when you can listen for hours, and not wanna yank them outta your ears after 30 minutes.


----------



## coflaes

courierdriver said:


> You have a nice source shown in your pic, and the other sources and gear you show in your sig, are also excellent. Enjoy your ZS10 PRO! From my first listen, I thought they sounded excellent, and VERY addictive. I've got many hours on mine, and I think they sound better as they break in, and time goes on. Listened to them again last night for over 3.5 hours. I have many other iems and headphones I could pick up and listen to...but these are always my go to. They got the tuning right with these, and the fit is great! It's saying something when you can listen for hours, and not wanna yank them outta your ears after 30 minutes.


Zs10 pro is better than nicehck nx7?


----------



## courierdriver

coflaes said:


> Zs10 pro is better than nicehck nx7?


I can't compare the 2 yet...I only ordered the NX7 2 days ago. Don't have them yet, but I can definitely say the ZS10 PRO is spectacular. Generally speaking, I like my Moondrop KPE better for bass detail presentation, but the ZS10 PRO  is, imho, better than the TFZ No.3. I am not convinced that the No.3 is better than the KPE, and the KZ has better detail retrieval than the No.3. The No.3 has good bass, but at the expense of high end treble detail and definition. Everything seems too far back, or recessed for my liking. KZ ZS10 PRO is more forward and has better details in the mids and highs. Maybe I'm weird, but I like the KZ because it enhances the mids and highs, compared to the KPE and at the same time, presents a bit more warmth in that region. NX7 looks like it will have better details and highs compared to the other 3, with maybe a slightly reduced bass...but according to others, this can be compensated for with a bit of EQ. I will post my impressions of the NX7 when I get them, and have had some time with them. Till then...ZS10 PRO is my favourite!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone tried the new gold mix KZ cable with the CCA C10? The copper mix KZ sounds great but maybe gold is better?

I found the ZSN body doesn't isolate well even with the JVC Spiral Dots. The ZS7 body is perfect though. Am I the only one with weird ears?


----------



## baskingshark

courierdriver said:


> I can't compare the 2 yet...I only ordered the NX7 2 days ago. Don't have them yet, but I can definitely say the ZS10 PRO is spectacular. Generally speaking, I like my Moondrop KPE better for bass detail presentation, but the ZS10 PRO  is, imho, better than the TFZ No.3. I am not convinced that the No.3 is better than the KPE, and the KZ has better detail retrieval than the No.3. The No.3 has good bass, but at the expense of high end treble detail and definition. Everything seems too far back, or recessed for my liking. KZ ZS10 PRO is more forward and has better details in the mids and highs. Maybe I'm weird, but I like the KZ because it enhances the mids and highs, compared to the KPE and at the same time, presents a bit more warmth in that region. NX7 looks like it will have better details and highs compared to the other 3, with maybe a slightly reduced bass...but according to others, this can be compensated for with a bit of EQ. I will post my impressions of the NX7 when I get them, and have had some time with them. Till then...ZS10 PRO is my favourite!



Based on reviews on amazon japan (using google translate), the NX7 seems to have not enough bass and there are some complaints about defects in the build quality. But some headfiers say the stock tips are the ones causing the loss of bass, and tip rolling to a suitable eartip will help the bass. 
Look forward to your impressions about it. It looks interesting as it has a piezo driver inside.


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 26, 2019)

Slater said:


> just hold your mouth open while inserting your earphones



WHAT?
I wonder how you found out about that trick!

I have just 1 earphone with loads of driver flex from a brand that shouldn't be named nor mentioned, dont get that with any KZ.

Thanks for this suggestion, will definitelly try that trick,  ZS10 with a bit more bass would be awesome and maybe prevent me from buying the ZS7 that I know physically hurts to use just to have a basshead Hybrid KZ.

Bu the way, the bassiest hybrid KZ I tried is the (very neglected, here) ZSR, wonder if its similar.



Coldheart29 said:


> Sooo, i'm back with something like 15 hours on the ZST. Not much by any means, but i'm starting to getting a better idea about the sound signature.
> 
> I've been playing a bit with EQing, and it turns out that by lowering the 3.5k and 4k band by about 4db i pretty much get the kind of sound i was looking for, just doing that removes any kind of fatigue-inducing harshness the ZST had. Been trying some other bands too, but it looks like those two are the biggest "issue", moving other things in the 2.5k to 8k range would more be about changing the sound towards what i normally seek, thus going against the reason i'm looking into brighter earphones, so i'm disregarding these other bands.
> So, keeping that in mind, i started doing some research, and it looks like the ZSR might have such a sound signature that i'd get what i'm looking for, possibly without using any EQ tuning (i'm the kind of guys that preferes to avoid using EQ as much as possible), since both from reviews and from frequency graphs it seems they have a nice steep dip right in the 3.5k to 4.5k area.
> ...



Yes, the ZSR has a void around 4kz, It was a time when KZ had loads of complains of killer highs and I think it was their 1st try to tame its highs.
Its also the bassiest Hybrid KZ I have (was just wondering about it vs ZS7), with a lot of emphasis in the subbass. (its low frequencies are very BUSY, dont expect a fast and precise bass).

But Im not sure exactly what you want here... for what I understood you like treble and want a bright earphone that doesnt hurt you?

I think you should look at their newer models, ZS10Pro came to my mind, they improved their try-not-to-hurt-you game (you dont feel some frequencies are missing), except if you chose a ZS7 (physically hurt you) or a AS16 (its highs will hurt you), but if you want to be hurt both ways you need to revisit the ZS6.

PS.: I would wait for more replies as I dont trust my own judgement alone.


----------



## George Taylor

Back again, to report that I finally was able to get the ZST to seat in my ears properly. Just took me being half asleep (ie relaxed enough), and some normal old comply tips. I think the tips I was trying to use were sliding onto the nozzle too far, thus not letting me wear them right. That said, they sound fine for the price, which was around $15 on Amazon. Not really great, but also not bad either.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

igorneumann said:


> ...
> I think you should look at their newer models, ZS10Pro came to my mind, they improved their try-not-to-hurt-you game (you dont feel some frequencies are missing), except if you chose a ZS7 (physically hurt you) or a AS16 (its highs will hurt you), but if you want to be hurt both ways you need to revisit the ZS6.
> 
> PS.: I would wait for more replies as I dont trust my own judgement alone.



AS16's highs are ok IMHO. When I listen to them I always think that KZ had to give them a job to tame heighs like this. Their biggest problem are harshy mids. 
And I have to apologize to the AS12. With Silver/Gold cable They're  beast.


----------



## igorneumann

xxAMAROKxx said:


> AS16's highs are ok IMHO. When I listen to them I always think that KZ had to give them a job to tame heighs like this. Their biggest problem are harshy mids.
> And I have to apologize to the AS12. With Silver/Gold cable They're  beast.



There is any IEM that you cant stand the highs?

Asking because I actually enjoy the treble on IEMs that everyone else complain about... maybe you are just like me.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

When there is a plateu at treble part of the frequency range  - without big peaks or dips up to the 10 kHz - these iems suit me in most cases. I have always considered treble to be the most important part of the reproduced music. Maybe because I'm sensitive to it, idk. Earphones can be treble light or heavy, but smooth or at least in balance with mids.


----------



## Aparker2005

I was seriously considering buying custom mold ultimate ears ue-5 pros this week as my main iem for my drumming use on stage. I had already had them in my cart about to hit order. 

It then hit me that I was about to spend $550 on a set of probably awesome ears that would fit perfectly, but did I really need to drop that much money on iems when I have 2 amazing ones already, with the only issue being not custom molded? 

The as16s and zs10 pros I have are amazing. The as16 has the most amazing sound and are very comfortable. The zs10 pro nearly fit my ear absolutely perfectly like a custom mold, at least on the outside. 

So thanks to this forum and you good people, I really think I saved a $550 purchase and have 2 sets of ears that work absolutely perfectly for me. I really don't see the need to upgrade.


----------



## Coldheart29

igorneumann said:


> But Im not sure exactly what you want here... for what I understood you like treble and want a bright earphone that doesnt hurt you?



Pretty much. I'm quite sensitive to the 3.5k to 4.5k range of frequencies, so the only thing that really "hurts" me is peaks in that area. specifically, with the ZST just lowering 3.5k and 4k bands by 4db turns them from something that qould make me uncomfortable after a couple hours to something that i could wear all day long without issues. And that's it, no other change is really needed.

just to make things a bit clearer, this here is what i need to take out any fatiguin factor from the ZST.
A)




This is what i'd do if i really wanted to fine tune the sound to match my personal taste, but it's not needed, whereas the previous adjustment i pretty much need to use the ZST for longer periods.
B)




At this point i guess the question is: would the ZS10 pro need the same kind of adjustment in the A graph, or would it be be fine without fiddling with the EQ?


----------



## igorneumann

Coldheart29 said:


> Pretty much. I'm quite sensitive to the 3.5k to 4.5k range of frequencies, so the only thing that really "hurts" me is peaks in that area. specifically, with the ZST just lowering 3.5k and 4k bands by 4db turns them from something that qould make me uncomfortable after a couple hours to something that i could wear all day long without issues. And that's it, no other change is really needed.
> 
> just to make things a bit clearer, this here is what i need to take out any fatiguin factor from the ZST.
> A)
> ...



I thought it was... but then I searched for their respective frequency response and it tells a different story:

The darker reddish line, at the top in the bass is the ZS10 Pro
The purple middle one is the ZST and the lower, green one is the ZSR.





I think just the ZSR will have that dip in 4k.

Ps.: Have you tried to place a filter in the nose? You can easily make one out of a teabag or transpore tape.


----------



## auraldesire95

Just wanted the praise the ZSN (non-Pro) as they’re absolutely gorgeous and sound wonderful, regardless of what I listen to through them.

Praise be to KZ! (a little rhyme there, aye?)


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> She's using the Rock Zircon's I gave her and seems happy with them. She only knows about Apple...



Damn, my wife uses the same one... I gave her about 10 units until I found one that she agreed in replacing her aging Sennheiser CX200


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 26, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> OMG, Zeos just reviewed the KZ ZS10!





theresanarc said:


> I've been recommended the ZS3/ZS4/ZS4e (or 3e?) on here for really good noise isolation since the ZSN I bought isn't doing a good job of isolating.
> 
> Out of these three, which would have the most forward sounding and flatter or at least not bass-heavy sound signature?



ZS4, me thinks... The ZS3 is very bassy and the 3e I havent tried.
But all of them are V shaped.


----------



## Coldheart29

igorneumann said:


> Ps.: Have you tried to place a filter in the nose? You can easily make one out of a teabag or transpore tape.



Not yet, i'll wait to get some more playtime on the earphones before trying any kind of modding, it never hurts to wait for some good burn in to get into action, especially considering that, as i said, with just that bit of EQing the ZST sounds really fine. Would also be interesting to see how removing the metal grid would impact on the sound, but i'm not sure yet of how to remove it and then locking it back into position without affecting the nozzle too much.


----------



## igorneumann

Coldheart29 said:


> Not yet, i'll wait to get some more playtime on the earphones before trying any kind of modding, it never hurts to wait for some good burn in to get into action, especially considering that, as i said, with just that bit of EQing the ZST sounds really fine. Would also be interesting to see how removing the metal grid would impact on the sound, but i'm not sure yet of how to remove it and then locking it back into position without affecting the nozzle too much.



Dont think the metal grid has any effect on the sound.

The filters is a 2 minutes mod you can take off anytime you want, take the eartip out, place the filter, put the eartip over the filter.


----------



## DocHoliday (Jul 26, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> I thought it was... but then I searched for their respective frequency response and it tells a different story:
> 
> The darker reddish line, at the top in the bass is the ZS10 Pro
> The purple middle one is the ZST and the lower, green one is the ZSR.
> ...



Thanks for this feedback.  

KZ/CCA have a number of models that are technically more capable than the ZSR. I'm currently putting the 10Pro, NPr0, KB10 and F1 through their paces but I have to say that I use my ZSR regularly because I enjoy them. 

To me the ZSR has an enjoyable amount of bass, midrange, treble, air and soundstage with decent separation and imaging. Bass response for each person will vary based on how one's ear covers the ports at the base of the earphone and yes, bass response will effect the rest of the presentation. In addition, the ZSR's 4khz dip, while odd, contributes to what I call the ZSR's version of "smooth and airy".

Again, the ZSR may not be as technically capable as some of the newer releases but it still gets lots of playtime from me.



 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsr.22905/


In the end it all boils down to what you will grab when you want to enjoy YOUR music.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just ordered the entry-level Audiosense T180 for $35US. It's time for me to start seeing how KZ stacks up to other brands. #AKZHolicForNotMuchLonger?



Well I have temporarily joined that club. Dipping my toes in Tennmak nowadays over KZ. Got their Pro + Piano over ZSN Pro/CA4 and Trio over ZS10 Pro. Maybe I'm just bored of KZ's signature for now or Tennmak's mellow+airy highs make me enjoy my music more than KZs. Also, with Tennmak allowing to buy earheads only is a huge plus as it saves over 50% of their retail price of the complete package. Got Trio earheads only for $28! Very hard to pass such a sweet deal. KZ should also start something like that IMO as it gives a lot of flexibility to the end consumer.


----------



## igorneumann

DocHoliday said:


> To me the ZSR has an enjoyable amount of bass, midrange, treble, air and soundstage with decent separation and imaging. Bass response for each person will vary based on how one's ear covers the ports at the base of the earphone and yes, bass response will effect the rest of the presentation. In addition, the ZSR's 4khz dip, while odd, contributes to what I call the ZSR's version of "smooth and airy".
> 
> Again, the ZSR may not be as technically capable as some of the newer releases but it still gets lots of playtime from me.



I do have the ZSR, the vent hole info explains why do I hear so much more bass than the response curves indicate... guess any comparison would be useless then.

What I dont have, but want to buy even knowing Ill not use, is the ZS7.


----------



## actorlife




----------



## igorneumann

actorlife said:


>




So the logo is silver, not golden?
It looks bigger than the ZST-ZS10 Pro (longer)
And that eartip doesnt look "pacifier-grade"...


----------



## Coldheart29

DocHoliday said:


> Thanks for this feedback.
> 
> KZ/CCA have a number of models that are technically more capable than the ZSR. I'm currently putting the 10Pro, NPr0, KB10 and F1 through their paces but I have to say that I use my ZSR regularly because I enjoy them.
> 
> ...



This is nice to hear. Yeah, i keep thinking that i should get the zsr, will likely order them as soon as i'll get back from vacation. Wouldn't want them to arrive while i'm not at home :V.

Then i think i might still get the ZS10 pro, they look like a quite fun, and might still be a bit smoother considering that the 3.5-4.5 range seems more in line with the rest of the frequencies compared to the ZST.

But for now, i'll keep enjoying the ZST, definitely satisfied with the purchase, after all, by going down the KZ route i wasn't looking for the perfect iem for me (i would be looking at something like the earsonics velvet in that case, i think), but for something fun sounding and different from my "comfort zone".


----------



## shockdoc

actorlife said:


>




My Thai is REALLY rusty. Anybody care to translate for us? LOL


----------



## pbui44

shockdoc said:


> My Thai is REALLY rusty. Anybody care to translate for us? LOL



Something about KZ T1 Wireless IEMs, Tom Yum soup, any dish with curry, and papaya salad being awesome.


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> Put a small piece of 3M micropore tape over the front vent (ie the little round white and black bullseye looking vent next to the nozzle).
> 
> Be aware that this vent relieves ear canal pressure, so covering that vent  may cause some additional driver flex (ie crinkle sound). If that happens, just hold your mouth open while inserting your earphones or use foam tips.



I did the tape mod on my ZS7, yes I have sinned...!


----------



## courierdriver

Tonymac136 said:


> How do the ZS10 Pro compare to the original ZS10? I need another pair of budget IEMs like a hole in the head and it's taking money out of the HD6XX fund but I'd really like to know.


That's a tough one to answer. You say that you'd be taking money from your HD6XX fund if you bought either ZS10 or ZS10 PRO. The HD6XX is a warm sounding headphone, with a kinda big soundstage, so I am assuming that you prefer that type of sound signature. If that's the case, then I would lean towards the ZS10. Be aware though, that this set has kinda big shells, so they may not fit your ears comfortably and it might be hard to get a good seal. The PRO has a better fit for most ears, but may sound a bit more forward, compared to the regular ZS10, and the HD6XX you are saving up for. I don't own the HD6XX/650 or the ZS10, but I have heard the 6XX/650. Personally, it's not my preferred sound sig (I like the 600 more, myself). ZS10 PRO is gonna give you a more fun and upfront sound sig, than the ZS10 I think. So, if you're leaning towards a warmer, big soundstage sound like 6XX, I'd go with the ZS10. The ZS10 PRO  sounds more like a HD600, but with a better, more impactful bass. Again, remember that the ZS10 has a bigger shell, so getting a good fit might be a problem for some people.


----------



## SoundChoice

courierdriver said:


> That's a tough one to answer. You say that you'd be taking money from your HD6XX fund if you bought either ZS10 or ZS10 PRO. The HD6XX is a warm sounding headphone, with a kinda big soundstage, so I am assuming that you prefer that type of sound signature. If that's the case, then I would lean towards the ZS10. Be aware though, that this set has kinda big shells, so they may not fit your ears comfortably and it might be hard to get a good seal. The PRO has a better fit for most ears, but may sound a bit more forward, compared to the regular ZS10, and the HD6XX you are saving up for. I don't own the HD6XX/650 or the ZS10, but I have heard the 6XX/650. Personally, it's not my preferred sound sig (I like the 600 more, myself). ZS10 PRO is gonna give you a more fun and upfront sound sig, than the ZS10 I think. So, if you're leaning towards a warmer, big soundstage sound like 6XX, I'd go with the ZS10. The ZS10 PRO  sounds more like a HD600, but with a better, more impactful bass. Again, remember that the ZS10 has a bigger shell, so getting a good fit might be a problem for some people.



Shoving ZS10 non-Pros into a human ear is like trying to fit a lumberjack’s foot into a thimble.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 27, 2019)

I think we are starting to realise that buying too many KZ's is a dumb idea. I just gave a coworker 5 iems and I have 9 more iems for him. If credit cards didn't exist the money would still be in my wallet.


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think we are starting to realise that buying too many KZ's is a dumb idea. I just gave a coworker 5 iems and i have 9 more iems for him. If credit cards didn't exist the money would still be in my wallet.



KZs are like pokemons. You gotta catch them all.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SoundChoice said:


> Shoving ZS10 non-Pros into a human ear is like trying to fit a lumberjack’s foot into a thimble.


... and then there are BA10s


----------



## youngarthur

shockdoc said:


> My Thai is REALLY rusty. Anybody care to translate for us? LOL


Ive ordered the T1. We shall see.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Jul 27, 2019)

Since buying my ZST which was my first foray into CHIFI, I am actually glad I ordered all the KZs that I did. It was a fun journey and I learned a lot. While I sold off most of them now, I ended up keeping the ES4 the EDR1, ED9 and ZSN.  You can buy all 4 of these IEMs for about $33. That's amazing to me.

Before that, and like most people, I was at the mercy of the big name brands. Of course they were all $100-$300 each. Pretty difficult pill to swallow buying something like that and not liking it. At the same time that's one reason EQ exist. 

Anyway here is a graph from a 2012 Audio Technica IEM that cost $230. It was highly praised as a great IEM and Rec'd here. Never heard one person bad talk the thing.



My how much time has changed is the past few years. Thanks to KZ and other Chinese companies, making good sounding stuff affordable for people now.

BTW, I have that IEM. Its comparable to ZS6/ZSA to me. Both of which can be picked up for about $35 now.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

igorneumann said:


> There is any IEM that you cant stand the highs?
> 
> Asking because I actually enjoy the treble on IEMs that everyone else complain about... maybe you are just like me.


By KZ, it's ED16 and sometimes ZS10 Pro and ZS7.. I've never heard ZS5 or 6.


----------



## baskingshark

BadReligionPunk said:


> Since buying my ZST which was my first foray into CHIFI, I am actually glad I ordered all the KZs that I did. It was a fun journey and I learned a lot. While I sold off most of them now, I ended up keeping the ES4 the EDR1, ED9 and ZSN.  You can buy all 4 of these IEMs for about $33. That's amazing to me.
> 
> Before that, and like most people, I was at the mercy of the big name brands. Of course they were all $100-$300 each. Pretty difficult pill to swallow buying something like that and not liking it. At the same time that's one reason EQ exist.
> 
> ...



Fully agree with you. Just about 3 years ago, we would have to pay ~ $200 - 300 USD for a triple driver western brand IEM. I've been buying westone IEMs for the past 10 years and can personally say many of the CHIFI IEMs can now match their sound quality at a fraction of the cost. I've stopped patronizing most of the western brands ever since my first foray into the CHIFI world, which was the KZ ZS6 (even though its treble peak was a bit of a killer to me, I thought the rest of the tuning wasn't bad for the price).
I'm very happy to see KZ and the other CHIFI companies evolving and catching up to their western counterparts since and am thankful these CHIFI companies can give us a small taste of audiophile quality without burning a hole in the wallet.


----------



## actorlife

youngarthur said:


> Ive ordered the T1. We shall see.


Cool make sure you post your thought here and here also: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-650#post-15086331


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

PhonoPhi said:


> ... and then there are BA10s


That's the Pokemon nobody wants.


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's the Pokemon nobody wants.


Well, just in case, if I lose both of my AS10s, I learned to fit BA10 quite comfortably


----------



## courierdriver

PhonoPhi said:


> Well, just in case, if I lose both of my AS10s, I learned to fit BA10 quite comfortably


Like...how? Did you get some kinda ear surgery to make them bigger??!!


----------



## PhonoPhi

courierdriver said:


> Like...how? Did you get some kinda ear surgery to make them bigger??!!


That would be the ultimate custom fit :indeed )
What I learned in this great forum: XL spiral dots seal well and are not getting inserted as deep for me, so that the shells are not pressing that hard inside.


----------



## igorneumann

xxAMAROKxx said:


> By KZ, it's ED16 and sometimes ZS10 Pro and ZS7.. I've never heard ZS5 or 6.



Cant stand the ed16 sound signature neither, not because of the highs though, but it just sound weird to me, as if wasnt the correct tonality.

Same with the TRN V10.



SoundChoice said:


> Shoving ZS10 non-Pros into a human ear is like trying to fit a lumberjack’s foot into a thimble.



Its not even among the worst offenders... The ZS10 fits WAY BETTER than the ZS 5/6/7 and the BA10 hurt just to look at.

And it suck so bad that apparently the ZS7 sounds fantastic.


----------



## igorneumann

Does anyone knows the ed15 dynamic driver diameter? 
Cant find it anywhere.

Asking because I still wondering how the T1 will sound like and I suspect its configuration will be similar to ed15, it look like 6mm-ish.

If it sound anything similar (sure, there is bluetooth added to the mix), will be awesome.


----------



## baskingshark

PhonoPhi said:


> That would be the ultimate custom fit :indeed )
> What I learned in this great forum: XL spiral dots seal well and are not getting inserted as deep for me, so that the shells are not pressing that hard inside.



Agree 100% that the original ZS10 shell is super huge. But i somehow managed to get a secure fit with spintfits cause this eartip is longer than standard ones. So the shell doesn't touch the ears like @PhonoPhi  says. I never found other tips that were suitable for the original ZS10 for myself otherwise.


----------



## Tonymac136

baskingshark said:


> Agree 100% that the original ZS10 shell is super huge. But i somehow managed to get a secure fit with spintfits cause this eartip is longer than standard ones. So the shell doesn't touch the ears like @PhonoPhi  says. I never found other tips that were suitable for the original ZS10 for myself otherwise.



Which spinfits do you recommend for the ZS10?


----------



## theresanarc

What's the nozzle size of ZS4s? Looking for some double-flanged tips that would go with them.


----------



## igorneumann

Slater said:


> Well, so far KZ has been releasing the models in the order they appear on their 2018 release photo 'grid':
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Was looking for that picture to ask here about the KZ Phoenix (only model there not yet released) and surprise, found it right year from your post from a year ago.

Ps.: Still love the ES4, its as good as the ZSN.


----------



## igorneumann

For my experience, they dont fit well with double flanges, as it makes it stick out of the ear... In my experience, the ZS4 doesnt like any special tip


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 28, 2019)

Tonymac136 said:


> Which spinfits do you recommend for the ZS10?



Hi i personally use the spinfit CP100 model for it. If fits most of the other KZ IEMs too. Comes in three different sizes.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

igorneumann said:


> 10 fits WAY BETTER than the ZS 5/6/7 and the BA10 hurt just to look at.
> 
> And it suck so bad that apparently the ZS7 sounds fantastic.


The ZS7 sounds better than the BA10?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

igorneumann said:


> 10 fits WAY BETTER than the ZS 5/6/7 and the BA10 hurt just to look at.
> 
> And it suck so bad that apparently the ZS7 sounds fantastic.


The ZS7 sounds better than the BA10?


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZS7 sounds better than the BA10?



Those are just the 2 Im curious to try but havent bought them because of how the ZS6 ergonomics prevent me from using it much...

There are many good sounding KZ models that arent trying to hurt you.


----------



## LamerDeluxe (tm)

I have no fitting problems at all with the ZS7 and yes, they sound great, especially with electronic music. Exciting sound, deep bass with a good slam, nice 3D soundstage, treble doesn't sound accurate though. My **** still sounds better than all the KZ and CCA earphones I have, deep bass, very good detail and stereo phase.


----------



## Tonymac136

baskingshark said:


> Hi i personally use the spinfit CP100 model for it. If fits most of the other KZ IEMs too. Comes in three different sizes.


 Thanks for that. I've a selection of IEMs that all have the same nozzle size but helpfully none are listed in spinfit's compatibility chart!


----------



## baskingshark

Tonymac136 said:


> Thanks for that. I've a selection of IEMs that all have the same nozzle size but helpfully none are listed in spinfit's compatibility chart!



Ya the spinfit compatibility chart omits majority of the CHIFI budget brands. A better gauge is to go by the diameter that is in the compatibility chart, and go back and measure your own IEM nozzle diameter.


----------



## billbishere

I have been tip rolling on my KZ ZS10 Pros.  My findings are a tip with a smaller bore opening seem to make things sound the very best for me.  Takes away the symbance on some stuff I was getting and generally cleans things up.  Takes the bite out of the harshness.  I was using the JVC Spiral dots and switched to some New Bees.  You can see in the photo the size difference.  It's pretty significant.


----------



## Aevum

has anyone tried the new True Wireless headphones ?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Aug 3, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZS7 sounds better than the BA10?





igorneumann said:


> Those are just the 2 Im curious to try but havent bought them because of how the ZS6 ergonomics prevent me from using it much...
> 
> There are many good sounding KZ models that arent trying to hurt you.


Just ordered BA10. It should be more detailed (and more V-Shaped?) version of the AS10.

Found out that this 16 core third party pure copper cable works great with the AS16, 12 or AS10 (little basshead)  It has sufficient details, big soundstage and more bass.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.496a4c4dcdT3Td

You only need to pinch that ugly plastic bead.


----------



## actorlife

Aevum said:


> has anyone tried the new True Wireless headphones ?


No they just started shipping, hopefully next week or two. I'm on a tight budget and waiting for reviews myself. There is one on YouTube posted today in Thai, but I can't understand the language.


----------



## KimChee

I know this is the KZ thread, but anyone heard anymore about the CCA C20 being released?


----------



## KimChee

PS does anyone own the KZ T1?  It’s only about $40, and I’d like to utilize the BT on a couple of my devices


----------



## actorlife

KimChee said:


> PS does anyone own the KZ T1?  It’s only about $40, and I’d like to utilize the BT on a couple of my devices


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3080#post-15088544


----------



## toddy0191

Can't understand a word of this but his star ratings look pretty good at the end!


----------



## igorneumann (Jul 28, 2019)

KimChee said:


> I know this is the KZ thread, but anyone heard anymore about the CCA C20 being released?



No idea, but Im not excited a bit about it, the As16 reviews arent that good (the AS12 looks to be better) and I think the ever increasing BA count is having the expected result in the price but not in the sound.

They are selling specs and at the same time entering in a pricepoint that just have better options around (some single driver, such as the Kanas Pro).

KZ is king of the lower end and that quite a feat on itself, maybe in some years they will also be awesome in the high end, but I wouldnt hold my breath on its 1st models.



KimChee said:


> PS does anyone own the KZ T1?  It’s only about $40, and I’d like to utilize the BT on a couple of my devices



Thats a tws earphome, not an adapter, you cant plug it in other devices... That said, KZ wasnt able to mando facture a single good BT adapter yet.


----------



## PhonoPhi

KimChee said:


> I know this is the KZ thread, but anyone heard anymore about the CCA C20 being released?


According to @1clearhead, who talked about C20 here, CCA's plan will be C12 about now and C18 in some near future ...

I would have loved to see C20 happen, may try other IEMs instead.


----------



## KimChee

I might try C18...though I like C16 well enough




PhonoPhi said:


> According to @1clearhead, who talked about C20 here, CCA's plan will be C12 about now and C18 in some near future ...
> 
> I would have loved to see C20 happen, may try other IEMs instead.


----------



## KimChee

I like C16 pretty well...was hoping C20 was a little better...right now ZS7/ZS10 Pro is my favorite budget offering...

I don’t have any BT earphones so I’m curious about them...I know it’s not an adapter...3 hrs seems kind of crappy though...





igorneumann said:


> No idea, but Im not excited a bit about it, the As16 reviews arent that good (the AS12 looks to be better) and I think the ever increasing BA count is having the expected result in the price but not in the sound.
> 
> They are selling specs and at the same time entering in a pricepoint that just have better options around (some single driver, such as the Kanas Pro).
> 
> ...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Found out that this 16 core third party pure copper cable works great with the AS12 and AS10 (little bassheads). It has sufficient details, big soundstage and more bass (and only for $10 now??):
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030782005.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.496a4c4dcdT3Td


Is the 16 core sound just more lively than the 8 core version? I've heard reports that the 8 core sounds better and it's cheaper.


----------



## billbishere

They sound the same ...  Unless they are broken.  I have then yinoo 8 core and kbear 16 core.


----------



## KimChee

I agree I like the 8 better, I’ve got it on my TF10 custom...16 is too big except home use so not my cup of tea...



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the 16 core sound just more lively than the 8 core version? I've heard reports that the 8 core sounds better and it's cheaper.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

billbishere said:


> They sound the same ...  Unless they are broken.  I have then yinoo 8 core and kbear 16 core.


If a 16 core and 8 core sound the same then it's always best to buy the cheapest option...

I don't understand why the 16 core doesn't sound better or is it just the NiceHCK model that sounds the same?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jul 28, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is the 16 core sound just more lively than the 8 core version? I've heard reports that the 8 core sounds better and it's cheaper.


It's more about comfort for me. Thicker cable is more comfortable and less tangled. This cable sounds bassier and with tammed treble, For some KZ's its OK.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 28, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> ...
> I don't understand why the 16 core doesn't sound better or is it just the NiceHCK model that sounds the same?



There are different thicknesses of the cores, so 4-core can be thicker and more conductive than 8- and 16-cores.

Cables are for the comfort (and nice look for me).

For those who thinks that there are differences there are always blind tests and proper scientific measurements to convincingly demonstrate the difference.
Since we do not see those demonstrations - everyone can make their own conclusions.

P. S. At the same time, it is really great that there are different cables (and nice databases, such as made by @hakuzen ), so everyone can chose their level of enjoyment with the cables.


----------



## courierdriver

KimChee said:


> I like C16 pretty well...was hoping C20 was a little better...right now ZS7/ZS10 Pro is my favorite budget offering...
> 
> I don’t have any BT earphones so I’m curious about them...I know it’s not an adapter...3 hrs seems kind of ****ty though...


I'm with you on the ZS10 PRO! Absolutely love those iems, and find myself listening to them most often. I'm tempted to buy myself another set with a blue faceplate and the blue housing...just cause I think they would look cool and sound great. No regrets about the ZS10 PRO at all. I'm giving away another brand new set in the silver faceplate and black body, to someone in my family at Christmas. If I decide to get the blueface on blue body, that will make 3 sets I've purchased of the same model. I've never done anything like this before. Maybe I'm going crazy in my old age...or the ZS10 PRO is JUST THAT DAMN GOOD!.


----------



## 1clearhead

PhonoPhi said:


> According to @1clearhead, who talked about C20 here, CCA's plan will be C12 about now and C18 in some near future ...
> 
> I would have loved to see C20 happen, may try other IEMs instead.


Yea, unfortunately that's what the owner told me. I would have liked to see a C20 and add it to my collection.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

PhonoPhi said:


> There are different thicknesses of the cores, so 4-core can be thicker and more conductive than 8- and 16-cores.
> 
> Cables are for the comfort (and nice look for me).
> 
> ...


I'm not sure, but what I can hear, one of the main defference between cables is at the soundstage. For example with silver cable, instruments are almost in my head, while with copper cable they are further. It's probably hard to measure that.


----------



## SiggyFraud

hakuzen said:


> if your budget is below $10, yesss


Hi. I'm assuming this is the cable 064, right? Sorry for digging out such an old post, but I couldn't find a pic nor a link.


 
https://bit.ly/2GxSZ5A


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

SiggyFraud said:


> Hi. I'm assuming this is the cable 064, right? Sorry for digging out such an old post, but I couldn't find a pic nor a link.
> 
> 
> https://bit.ly/2GxSZ5A


Yes, its very soft and comfortable. Soundwise not extra detailed, but good choice for bright eims.


----------



## hakuzen

SiggyFraud said:


> Hi. I'm assuming this is the cable 064, right? Sorry for digging out such an old post, but I couldn't find a pic nor a link.
> 
> 
> https://bit.ly/2GxSZ5A


yes, it is.
the link to my list of cables (measurements, pics, comments, and links) is in my signature:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/


----------



## SiggyFraud

hakuzen said:


> yes, it is.
> the link to my list of cables (measurements, pics, comments, and links) is in my signature:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/


Thanks a ton!


----------



## Mybutthurts

courierdriver said:


> I'm with you on the ZS10 PRO! Absolutely love those iems, and find myself listening to them most often. I'm tempted to buy myself another set with a blue faceplate and the blue housing...just cause I think they would look cool and sound great. No regrets about the ZS10 PRO at all. I'm giving away another brand new set in the silver faceplate and black body, to someone in my family at Christmas. If I decide to get the blueface on blue body, that will make 3 sets I've purchased of the same model. I've never done anything like this before. Maybe I'm going crazy in my old age...or the ZS10 PRO is JUST THAT DAMN GOOD!.



I'm with you on the ZS10 Pro sound and blue plate. Unfortunately I've not yet seen any option on buying one with blue plate/shell combination. Only image I've seen appears to blue plate/black shell.


----------



## billbishere

Yah.  That blue plate set looks sick.  My black with the Chrome's are pretty scratched up.  I have only had them like a month or so.  But I love that blue plate


----------



## tnelmo

Slater said:


> On the EDR1, 4.0mm screens fit perfectly.
> 
> As far as using one type on 1 side and a different type on the other, no you want to use both the same type. So either red screens on both sides or stainless screens on both sides (but not 1 of each).
> 
> ...




Thanks @Slater


----------



## Miyanovic

Anyone else had problems with the KZ zsn pins?  I realized that the plastic was broken.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Has anyone’s KZ T1’s shipped yet? 

Still waiting patiently


----------



## 40lb

Part 1: ZS10 Pro vs Hifiman RE600
 Both IEMs have good bass while the RE600 has faster and more controlled mid-bass it just doesn’t have good deep sub-bass leaving me wanting just a bit more rumble. The ZS10 Pro mid-bass slower than the RE600 has much more of it with plenty of sub-bass rumble and much more mid-bass. RE600 lower and upper mids sounded balanced across the spectrum with lots of body, made the music feel more engaging. The ZS10 Pro, on the other hand, had a neutral sound to the low and upper mids, compared to the RE600 is more natural and leaner. The treble for the RE600 is smooth and without roll-off, however, it lacks any sparkle and some airiness. Looking at the ZS10 Pro the treble had a good extension, was crisp and was well defined but while playing some songs I find it to be too much-causing fatigue. While both have a nice and wide soundstage the ZS10 Pro has a wider soundstage compared to the RE600 but not by much. The RE600 has better separation compared to the ZS10 Pro, playing some tracks the ZS10 Pro would feel congested due to this.

Part 2: ZS10 Pro vs IE800s (coming soon)

Part 3: ZS10 Pro vs Andromeda (coming soon)

Part 4: ZS10 Pro vs Solaris (coming soon)

DAP:
Shanling M5s (2.5mm balanced only)

Tracks:
Kiss of Death – Mika Nakashima
Rightfully – Mili
Compared to What – Roberta Flack
Fairy Fountain – Mikel and Gamechops
Earfquake – Tyler, The Creator
Hard Times - Paramore
Old Town Road – Lil Nas X
Brandy – Looking Glass
Come A Little Bit Closer – Jay & the Americans
Imagine – Ariana Grande
Come Away with Me – Norah Jones
May I Have This Dance (Remix) – Francis and the Lights


----------



## SenyorC (Jul 29, 2019)

I usually don't post reviews and detailed impressions here as I am usually well behind the curve when it comes to the latest releases etc. However, as the ZS10 Pro is still relatively new and also it seems that I am the odd one out when it comes to my impressions of this IEM, I thought I would share my review here. The review is also available in Spanish on my blog if anyone should prefer to read it in Castellano.

Please note that this is a copy and paste from my blog, just in case any references don't make any sense.

*ZS10 Pro Review*




While I have various IEMs that are awaiting reviews, I thought I would do the ZS10 Pro as they are still relatively new (for KZ I mean) and to be honest, they are the most detailed and clean <50€ IEMs I have tried to date and are certainly worth considering when making comparisons to other IEMs.

As always, I’ll get to the sound in a minute but let’s go through the usual steps so I don’t forget anything!

*Disclaimers and info*

I purchased these IEMs with my own money, direct from China, so there is no influence in regards to my review. I did (and still do) read a lot of hype about the ZS10 Pro which could maybe play a part in whether or not these meet my expectations but, as always, I will try to be honest to what I hear. I have also ignored graphs posted by others to avoid having too much of a predefined expectation.




*Unboxing and first impressions*

The ZS10 Pro arrived in a box that is basically identical to the one that the ZSN arrived in. They are presented in the packaging the same way and include the same accessories and cable. In fact, if it wasn’t for the fact that it says ZS10 Pro on the box and that the IEMs are blue and shiny silver, it would be almost impossible to tell them apart at a simple glance.

Again, as with the ZSN, the first impression is of a well built item, showing a quality that is above what I have become to expect in this price range (although KZ is changing my expectations in this regard).

I am not a fan of the shiny plates that are on the exterior, in fact, that was one of the reasons that stopped me from buying the Kanas Pro for so long, I just don’t like the “shinyness”. However, recently KZ has released another version with a blue plate which may be more suitable for those who don’t like shiny things in their ears (like me).

*Build quality*

As said above, as is with the ZSN, the sensation of a quility build continues when using the ZS10 Pro. The cable is the typical bronze coloured cable that KZ are including lately, and while it does get tangled pretty easily, it does its job and is fine for the purpose.

The ZS10 Pro also uses the same connector as the ZSN (Para C) which has the pins slightly recessed and creates a sensation of being more robust than older versions.

There are no sharp edges to be found and in general it is a well built IEM, or at least that is the impression I get.




*Comfort*

AS the ZS10 Pro is the same shape and size as the ZSN, the comfort is the same. I find the IEMs comfortable and they are a good fit, however, they are not so comfortable that they just “disappear” and I forget that I am wearing them.

I find that swapping the stock cable for a NiceHCK cable (balanced in my case) helps a little over long periods as the over ear hook is covered in a much softer silicone and is not as rigid.




*Power requirements*

I find that the ZS10 Pro work fine from my phone, although I do notice an improvement when running them from a more powerful source such as the M2X or the Atom.

I would say that an amplifier is not needed for these IEMs but I do think it gives them a little more freedom (if that makes any sense).




*General listening*

I have listened to these sporadically since I got them about a month ago but for the last 10 days or so they have been used for various hours a day, mainly running from the M2X.

My first impression of sound when I put them on was “wow, these are clean!” and as time has passed (I probably have 100 hours on them now) I still feel that these are very clean and have much more detail than any other IEM I currently own.

But… and I am not quite sure where this but comes from… I don’t find that I enjoy them for long listening periods.

Whilst I love the detail and how clean the ZS10 Pro sounds, I find that after a while I start to become fatigued while wearing them. In part this is due to the comfort (after 2 or 3 hours I start to get irritated) but at the same time it is due to the sound signature of these IEMs.

They don’t seem to be overly boosted in any frequency (I guess we’ll find out in the measurements) but there is something that just makes me feel that they are harsh. I am not sure why I feel this way with the ZS10 Pro when headphones like the DT1990 (which is very detailed and can be harsh) don’t make me feel this way.

This feeling of harshness is especially present to my ears when listening to tracks that have a lot of instruments, especially acoustic instruments, as sometimes it just feels like the track I am listening to is unfinished, it reminds me of when I am producing music and the song is finished but in need of a final eq and polish. I thought this was probably due to the quality of the tracks I have been listening to but I have tried the same tracks through other headphones, IEMs and studio monitors, none of them seem to exhibit the harshness as much as the KZ ZS10 Pro. Having said this, I want to make it clear that I don’t feel that these sound bad, I just don’t think that they are always a true representation of what the actual overall sound of the track is.

On the other side of the coin, this extreme detail is great for monitoring or even mixing to some extent. I have found these to be a good option for monitoring when playing bass and being able to clearly define what is going on around me. I will try and do a comparison at some point between the IEMs I have and how they stand up to a live musician setting. I could also see these as being a great portable option when working on cleaning up tracks that I have recorded while travelling.




*Detailed and Comparative Listening*

For the majority of the comparisons and detailed listening, these have been done with either the D10 feeding the JDS Labs Atom or directly from the M2X. While I completely trust the D10+Atom and I prefer to do my comparisons with this set up, I find that sometimes using my DAP helps control the volume a little better (IEMs can get rather loud rather quickly with the Atom!). Please take into consideration that I have only used foam tips with the ZS10 Pro as I do not like silicone tips.

*BASS:* The ZS10 Pro has bass, it is clean and well defined, however, it is a little lacking in comparison to other IEMs such as the ZSN or the ****, especially in the sub-bass range. While listening to EDM or hip hop, I sometimes feel that it could do with just a few dB more in the lower registers and please note that I do not consider myself a basshead by any means.

I don’t mean that EDM or Hip Hop doesn’t sound good through the ZS10 Pro, it is just that at times, mainly due to the clarity and extreme detail mentioned above, it can feel like the voices are excessively overpowering and could do with a little more in the lows to balance the sound out (this is particularly present in Hip Hop where voices are usually not the most musical).

When listening to Busta Rhymes “Hot crap Makin’ Ya Bounce”, the bass is clear and well defined, but when listening to other tracks that are dependent on more sub, it sounds a little thin.

In the case of “Ace Of Spades” by Motorhead, the track sounds overly harsh. I know that Motorhead are not exactly known for the low registers as Lemmy EQ’d his bass to be mostly mids and ran through Marshall stacks, but I would still pick something with a little more bass (maybe even overly present bass) to listen to this specific sound signature.

*MIDS:* Now, here is where I am a little confused. As I said before, a little more bass would help with songs that are overly mid present, however, the ZS10 Pro seems to be slightly recessed in the mids where the body of voices are located but overly boosted in the higher mids where the presence of vocals is usually found. To be honest, I think that this “overly present” voice in the higher mids is what actually makes these IEMs tiring for me.

As I listen to a lot of female vocals and acoustic music, I find that these are lacking a little bit of smoothness when transitioning from lower mids up to the higher mids at around 2 or 3kHZ. However, when listening to the new album by Madonna “Madame X”, I found that her voice was less tiring than other voices such as those found on Acoustic Jazz recordings.

*HIGHS:* There is no lack of highs with the ZS10 Pro but I don’t find them to be ovelry done either. While tracks that are sibilant by nature are also sibilant on these, there seems to be no extra sibilance on tracks where I haven’t noticed it before (especially in comparison to the DT1990, where sibilance can appear on tracks that I never even thought could be classed as sibilant). For example, songs such as “China In Your Hand” or “Papa’s got a brand new pigbag” are no more irritating on the ZS10 Pro than they are on other alternatives and songs like “Only Time” by Enya are no worse on the ZS10 Pro than other less detailed IEMs (such as the ZSN).

There is plenty of air and space in the upper registers and this leads me to again think that it is the upper mids that “disturb” me.

*SOUNDSTAGE, IMAGING AND OTHER: *I feel that soundstage and imaging is better on the ZS10 Pro than it is on the ZSN, or even the T2, but I wouldn’t consider the soundstage to be overly wide (I am yet to find an IEM that I consider to have a wide soundstage”.

When speaking about other specifics, I would point out the fact that well recorded drums sound excellent on the ZS10 Pro, as do electronically produced songs, whereas acoustic instruments (mainly Piano and stringed instruments) just don’t sound quite as they should. When listening to flamenco or classical music, I find that the instruments can sound rather artificial.

Finally, one other comment regarding detail… I was listening to the song “Dark Ballet” from the Madame X album I mentioned above. In the middle of the song there is a part that is a piano solo. During this part, specifically at 1:44 and 1:58, I noticed that the left channel is slightly distorted. I checked this with other IEMs and headphones and it is not really noticeable unless you really listen for it but with the ZS10 Pro it stands out and is easily noticeable. I also asked someone who has the album from another source if it is present on his version, which he says it isn’t, so it seems to be a fault with the version on Spotify. I just wanted to use this example to give an idea of how well the ZS10 Pro show flaws, making them great for editing on the move.

*
Measurements and graphs*

As always, please note that the measurements posted below should not be compared with measurements taken by any other party. My measurement set up is different to that used by others and is not calibrated in the same way, so any graphs should only be compared to other graphs posted by me.

My measurement set up is Windows 7 laptop running REW > Topping D10 > JDS Labs Atom > IEMs > EARS > REW. The measurements have been taken using the stock cable and NewBee foam tips.




I am surprised to see on the graph that the bass does not roll off more. Based on my listening to these, I would have thought that the bass would start to roll off around 80 or 90Hz and be down by about 3 or 4 dB by the time it reached the 20 or 30Hz zone. According to the measurements this does not seem to be the case.

The mids are also not as recessed in the lower regions, however, the boost around 2.5kHz I think is what is making these feel tiring to me. Saying that though, the ZSN has even more around the 2.8kHz area and I don’t feel the same way about them. This seems to be a case of my hearing not agreeing with the measurements.

If we overlay the ZSN on the ZS10 Pro graph, we see the following:




These IEMs were calibrated the same and I have redone the measurements to see if the differences shown are really that much and according to EARS and REW they are.

Looking at the FR of both of these, it is easy to see that the tuning is very similar but the ZSN has a higher reading in the majority of frequencies, just slightly moved to the right of the FR graph.

Obviously graphs are not a true representation of how something sounds, it is just a guidance to their frequency response, however, I would never have guessed that the ZSN and ZS10 Pro would be so similar on paper. The detail of the ZS10 Pro really does make a huge difference that is not reflected on the graph.

*Conclusions and final notes*

As I said at the beginning, my first reaction to the ZS10 Pro was “wow, these are clean!”. After a month or so with them, I still find them to be extremely clean and detailed, however, I can’t say that I am madly in love with them, at least not for just sitting back and listening to music.

For specific genres, the detail and separation of these can be amazing but at the same time, other genres sound overly artificial and “unfinished” (I can’t think of a better description).

If I need to do some editing on the go, or if I need to use IEMs for playing or rehearsing live, then I have no doubt that the ZS10 Pro would be the top of my list at the moment, as I really think that they provide enough detail to hear the separation of instruments and pick up on changes. However, for music listening, I am not so sure.

I will continue to evaluate these over the coming months in comparison to other alternatives and I may revisit my review but at the moment my conclusion is this…

If you want some <50€ IEMs that have extreme detail and allow you to pick up on every nuance, then these are for you. If you prefer to find some <50€ IEMs that help you relax and listen to music without dissecting it, then I would look at other alternatives.


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## 1clearhead

SenyorC said:


> I usually don't post reviews and detailed impressions here as I am usually well behind the curve when it comes to the latest releases etc. However, as the ZS10 Pro is still relatively new and also it seems that I am the odd one out when it comes to my impressions of this IEM, I thought I would share my review here. The review is also available in Spanish on my blog if anyone should prefer to read it in Castellano.
> 
> Please note that this is a copy and paste from my blog, just in case any references don't make any sense.
> 
> ...


Nice technically written review! 
Do you own, or plan to compare them to a KZ ZSN PRO? ...just curious!

-Clear


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## SenyorC

1clearhead said:


> Nice technically written review!
> Do you own, or plan to compare them to a KZ ZSN PRO? ...just curious!
> 
> -Clear



Thanks Clear.

I don't own the ZSN Pro, I meant to order it but bought the ZSN by accident (which I actually like as "background music while focusing on other things" IEM).

I may order the Pro at some point though, just to see what I missed.


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## 1clearhead

SenyorC said:


> Thanks Clear.
> 
> I don't own the ZSN Pro, I meant to order it but bought the ZSN by accident (which I actually like as "background music while focusing on other things" IEM).
> 
> I may order the Pro at some point though, just to see what I missed.


Good to know! I personally think the ZSN PRO are an upgrade to the ZSN, but the only way you'll know is by getting yourself a pair.
...I look forward to your review, if you decide to get one.


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## maxdurak

Miyanovic said:


> Anyone else had problems with the KZ zsn pins?  I realized that the plastic was broken.



Same here. After few months.


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## BadReligionPunk

maxdurak said:


> Same here. After few months.


Same here. 

That design is a wretched design and the main reason I bailed on KZ affiliates. Never had a problem with the old ways. I'm sure they changed things to bring in new revenue streams. Won't purchase another iem with c type.


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## Makahl

Somehow the ZSN gets more reports about this issue. Has anyone got this issue on ZS10 Pro as well?


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## Nimweth

1clearhead said:


> Nice technically written review!
> Do you own, or plan to compare them to a KZ ZSN PRO? ...just curious!
> 
> -Clear


That's an interesting comment. Reading that review it could have been describing the ZSN Pro, which I have. I do not have the ZS10 Pro by the way.


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## maxdurak

Makahl said:


> Somehow the ZSN gets more reports about this issue. Has anyone got this issue on ZS10 Pro as well?



That's what stops me from buying this highly praised IEMs.


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## eclein

ZS10 Pro Blue Plate Special!
First I’ve seen them....they will be mine!
I’m waiting on a 16 core NiceHCK cable (pictured a few posts back) for my A10s first, then I’ll try other iems. I love the 8 core version on my NiceHCK Emerald Green M6s!

 

Offtopic: I’m getting a pair of the Audiosense T800’s soon, I’m currently using my C16s a-lot, and 8 Knowles drivers may just be the ticket for me. 
My Tin Hifi T3’s were my biggest surprise awesome sounding IEMs that I buy blindly. The A10s, 10 Pros, C16’s all would be a fine stopping point as far as I’m concerned but ..... I’m weak...lol.... I’d love to hear the 24 driver iems I see on AliExpress. Has anyone heard them...I forget who makes them....
I’m approaching 1000 posts....wow!
Enjoy the music!


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## FastAndClean

eclein said:


> ZS10 Pro Blue Plate Special!
> First I’ve seen them....they will be mine!
> I’m waiting on a 16 core NiceHCK cable (pictured a few posts back) for my A10s first, then I’ll try other iems. I love the 8 core version on my NiceHCK Emerald Green M6s!
> 
> ...


C16 sound like a broken radio compared to T800


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## PhonoPhi

How do you manage 9 Ohm of T800? (Most of the  sources are not designed to handle such low impedance. That exacerbates that "no crossovers" may be a good idea but of a limited practicality, IMHO).


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## FastAndClean

PhonoPhi said:


> How do you manage 9 Ohm of T800? (Most of the  sources are not designed to handle such low impedance. That exacerbates that "no crossovers" may be a good idea but of a limited practicality, IMHO).


what do you mean manage, i use them with my dac and there is no problem at all, no hiss, for other sources i cant comment, i use them only as a desktop solution


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## KimChee

My two fav budget iems with cable 130...KZ ZS7 and CCA C16


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## PhonoPhi

FastAndClean said:


> what do you mean manage, i use them with my dac and there is no problem at all, no hiss, for other sources i cant comment, i use them only as a desktop solution


What I mean are your DAC/sources rated to power 9-Ohm IEM?
Most are not.
Just to take a random example (to be specific in what I mean): for Fiio M11, they quote "recommended headphone impedance" as "16~150Ω".


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## FastAndClean

PhonoPhi said:


> What I mean are your DAC/sources rated to power 9-Ohm IEM?
> Most are not.
> Just to take a random example (to be specific in what I mean): for Fiio M11, they quote "recommended headphone impedance" as "16~150Ω".


is not rated, the lowest impedance on the specs is 16ohms, but i run them balanced and never get past 8 (out of 37) on the volume so there is no problem


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## PhonoPhi (Jul 29, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> is not rated, the lowest impedance on the specs is 16ohms, but i run them balanced and never get past 8 (out of 37) on the volume so there is no problem



The problem is not for the IEM but for the source.
9 is about between 0 and 16.
Using "0" is directly  short cutting your source.
What I mean is that trying to draw currents about twice as high, as the source is designed for, may cause  problems for the circuitry of the source.


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## Mlaihk

PhonoPhi said:


> How do you manage 9 Ohm of T800? (Most of the  sources are not designed to handle such low impedance. That exacerbates that "no crossovers" may be a good idea but of a limited practicality, IMHO).


I know Audiosense quoted the T800 at 9 ohms but I take that with a grain of salt.  For starters, they quote that for DC, which is not what others are normally quoted at.  Secondly, I am driving the T800 from my S10+ which has an OI of around 2.5ohm and the T800 sound great with that.
So I seriously doubt the T800 is 9ohms at 1kHz.....


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## PhonoPhi (Jul 29, 2019)

Mlaihk said:


> I know Audiosense quoted the T800 at 9 ohms but I take that with a grain of salt.  For starters, they quote that for DC, which is not what others are normally quoted at.  Secondly, I am driving the T800 from my S10+ which has an OI of around 2.5ohm and the T800 sound great with that.
> So I seriously doubt the T800 is 9ohms at 1kHz.....


If T800 impedance  would be higher at 1 kHz, this value would be used in the specs. Power consumption of BAs is higher close to the frequencies where they do their job (make sound).

Apart of directly damaging the source (which may not be likely since most should have some protection against accidental shortcuts), the question is how distorted would be such non-optimal functioning.


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## courierdriver

PhonoPhi said:


> If T800 impedance  would be higher at 1 kHz, this value would be used in the specs. Power consumption of BAs is higher close to the frequencies where they do their job (make sound).
> 
> Apart of directly damaging the source (which may not be likely since most should have some protection against accidental shortcuts), the question is how distorted would be such non-optimal functioning.


Certainly, one could hear when their source is distorting, or on the verge of doing so.


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## LaughMoreDaily

Can someone tell me what the sound difference was between ED9 v1 and v2? I also noticed different cables on v2? Thanks.


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## LaughMoreDaily

hakuzen said:


> yes, it is.
> the link to my list of cables (measurements, pics, comments, and links) is in my signature:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/


Is this a new CCA cable for your list?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040634736.html

I wish the colors were darker, but surely it'll still look good.


----------



## Naschy

Hi. I have ZS10 Pros. My dog just jumped on me and now I've lost sound on one side. I think he snapped something inside because when I move it around it cuts in and out.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a replacement cable? I tried searching but they seem slightly different. I need the mic cable as that's what I usee out and about. Only ones I can find have the black connectors near the shell instead of clear. Can anyone pull up the cable or recommend something better (with cable)?


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## TheVortex (Jul 30, 2019)

Naschy said:


> Hi. I have ZS10 Pros. My dog just jumped on me and now I've lost sound on one side. I think he snapped something inside because when I move it around it cuts in and out.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the direction of a replacement cable? I tried searching but they seem slightly different. I need the mic cable as that's what I usee out and about. Only ones I can find have the black connectors near the shell instead of clear. Can anyone pull up the cable or recommend something better (with cable)?



This cable will be fine for you and it is super cheap as well. Select the type C with mic. 
 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/blK5Awrq


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## Mybutthurts

Naschy said:


> Hi. I have ZS10 Pros. My dog just jumped on me and now I've lost sound on one side. I think he snapped something inside because when I move it around it cuts in and out.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the direction of a replacement cable? I tried searching but they seem slightly different. I need the mic cable as that's what I usee out and about. Only ones I can find have the black connectors near the shell instead of clear. Can anyone pull up the cable or recommend something better (with cable)?



On AliExpress search.

KZ ZSN Pro Cable Oxygen Free Copper C Style Pink Gold Headphone Original Wire Gold-plated 2 Pin 0.75mm for KZ ZSN/AS12/ZS10 Pro

Would post link but they fail when I post them.


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## 40lb

Comparisons
Part 1: ZS10 Pro vs Hifiman RE600 (click link) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3082#post-15090205

Part 2: ZS10 Pro vs IE800s

Looking at the sub-bass the ZS10 Pro has plenty rumble on the low with the mid-bass giving a nice hit letting you feel it. Comparing the sub-bass of the IE800s, which has a nice smooth and control rumble doesn’t isn’t as forward as the ZS10 Pro, same goes with the mid-bass being impactful when called upon there just isn’t as much of it as the ZS10 Pro. Putting them side by side the ZS10 Pro has more quantity of bass but the IE800s has better bass quality. The IE800s and ZS10 Pro low mids are neutral with the ZS10 Pro seeming just a bit more forward then the IE800s, the upper mids on the IE800s are pulled back by a bit from neutral while the ZS10 Pro is right on it. The IE800s mids are more resolving, smoother, and natural compared to the ZS10 Pros making the mids sound a little forward and leaner. The treble for the ZS10 Pro is nice and crisp, good extension and brighter, causing fatigue for me on a few tracks. The IE800s’s treble is well defined and has a bit of that sparkle, the difference is that the sound is more natural and smoother than the ZS10 Pro. The soundstage on the IE800s is nice and wide however putting them side by side I dare say the ZS10 Pro has a similar soundstage with some songs sounding like the ZS10 Pro may be wider. While the ZS10 Pro separation while good my feel congested on busy tracks however the IE800s handles separation wonderfully with room to spare.  

Part 3: ZS10 Pro vs Andromeda (coming soon)
Part 4: ZS10 Pro vs Solaris (coming soon)

DAP:
Shanling M5s (2.5mm balanced only)

Tracks:
Kiss of Death – Mika Nakashima
Rightfully – Mili
Compared to What – Roberta Flack
Fairy Fountain – Mikel and Gamechops
Earfquake – Tyler, The Creator
Hard Times - Paramore
Old Town Road – Lil Nas X
Brandy – Looking Glass
Come A Little Bit Closer – Jay & the Americans
Imagine – Ariana Grande
Come Away with Me – Norah Jones
May I Have This Dance (Remix) – Francis and the Lights


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## 1clearhead

40lb said:


> Comparisons
> Part 1: ZS10 Pro vs Hifiman RE600 (click link) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3082#post-15090205
> 
> Part 2: ZS10 Pro vs IE800s
> ...


OK, we're following! ...keep up the good work!
Next:
Part 3: ZS10 Pro vs Andromeda (coming soon)
Part 4: ZS10 Pro vs Solaris (coming soon)


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## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 31, 2019)

FastAndClean said:


> C16 sound like a broken radio compared to T800


Ouch for the C16. You bruised it's ego. The T800's are $300USD and the C16's are $80USD. So, it makes sense, right?


----------



## SoundChoice

Naschy said:


> Hi. I have ZS10 Pros. My dog just jumped on me and now I've lost sound on one side. I think he snapped something inside because when I move it around it cuts in and out.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the direction of a replacement cable? I tried searching but they seem slightly different. I need the mic cable as that's what I usee out and about. Only ones I can find have the black connectors near the shell instead of clear. Can anyone pull up the cable or recommend something better (with cable)?



Search AE for pink ZSN cable. Three bucks and good quality. ht @Slater


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

FastAndClean said:


> C16 sound like a broken radio compared to T800


Sometimes I got the same feeling of A16. A good quality cable will help them a lot. Now I like mixed copper/silver, which adds clarity and smoothen the treble.





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32874690130.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d80wpwd


----------



## FastAndClean

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Ouch for the C16. You bruised it's ego. The T800's are $300USD and the C16's are $80USD. So, it makes sense, right?


In chi fi world that can vary


----------



## 40lb

Comparisons
Part 1: ZS10 Pro vs Hifiman RE600 (click link) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3082#post-15090205
Part 2: ZS10 Pro vs IE800s (click link) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3084#post-15092162

Part 3: ZS10 Pro vs Andromeda
The Andromeda’s sub-bass is deep and smooth while the mid-bass is fast, punchy and nicely controlled. The ZS10 Pro’s sub-bass feels to have just a touch deeper reach and a noticeably faster decay, moving to the mid-bass it’s not as fast it is just as punchy with more of a slam. The lower mids for the Andromeda compared to the ZS10 Pro seem to be similar with the Andromeda being more detailed and with more body. The Andromeda’s upper-mids are more detailed and forward compared to ZS10 Pro’s more neutral upper mids. Treble is brighter on the Andromeda with a more clear and defined sound with a nice airiness and sparkle to it. Listening to the ZS10 Pro in comparison there is a noticeable step down in the quality but there still is a nice crisp and defined sound with a good extension. The ZS10 Pro soundstage is nice and wide but is noticeably narrower to the Andromeda’s very wide soundstage. Separation on the Andromeda gives it more sense of depth and height compared to the ZS10 Pro, the ZS10 Pro does handle separation nicely, the Andromeda just shines in this area and soundstage.

Part 4: ZS10 Pro vs Solaris (coming soon)

DAP:
Shanling M5s (2.5mm balanced only)

Tracks:
Kiss of Death – Mika Nakashima
Rightfully – Mili
Compared to What – Roberta Flack
Fairy Fountain – Mikel and Gamechops
Earfquake – Tyler, The Creator
Hard Times - Paramore
Old Town Road – Lil Nas X
Brandy – Looking Glass
Come A Little Bit Closer – Jay & the Americans
Imagine – Ariana Grande
Come Away with Me – Norah Jones
May I Have This Dance (Remix) – Francis and the Lights


----------



## eclein (Jul 31, 2019)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Sometimes I got the same feeling of A16. A good quality cable will help them a lot. Now I like mixed copper/silver, which adds clarity and smoothen the treble.



Are the A16 any good I haven’t seen anything on the latest ones, I have A10, but isn’t there a new 12 driver and the 16 you mentioned, any impressions would help us.


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## xxAMAROKxx (Jul 31, 2019)

eclein said:


> Are the A16 any good I haven’t seen anything on the latest ones, I have A10, but isn’t there a new 12 driver and the 16 you mentioned, any impressions would help us.


Haven't A10, but AS12 and 16 are about technical ability, Also someone had to tuned their sound for a time ... compact stage, separation, placement ... With these some easily become a treblehead, they are bright. Both need a good cable and some time to get use to that sound.
The AS12 has lifted frequencies on both ends and less harshy mids. so It could be that AS16 is better for rock /metal .. music, and the AS12 for genres like Pop/EDM...


----------



## Nimweth

eclein said:


> Are the A16 any good I haven’t seen anything on the latest ones, I have A10, but isn’t there a new 12 driver and the 16 you mentioned, any impressions would help us.


KZ have the AS12 and AS16, but there is a rumour of two CCA new models one with 6BA per side (C12 or A12), and a 9BA per side (C18 or A18) which replaces the fabled C20. Not sure when they'll be available though.


----------



## voicemaster

Nimweth said:


> KZ have the AS12 and AS16, but there is a rumour of two CCA new models one with 6BA per side (C12 or A12), and a 9BA per side (C18 or A18) which replaces the fabled C20. Not sure when they'll be available though.



Don't forget kz terminator which has 6 drivers too


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## steviewonderbread

voicemaster said:


> Don't forget kz terminator which has 6 drivers too



When does the KZ Arnold Schwarzenegger come out?


----------



## Slater

FastAndClean said:


> C16 sound like a broken radio compared to T800



Haha, I totally agree.


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2019)

Miyanovic said:


> Anyone else had problems with the KZ zsn pins?  I realized that the plastic was broken.





maxdurak said:


> Same here. After few months.





BadReligionPunk said:


> Same here.
> 
> That design is a wretched design and the main reason I bailed on KZ affiliates. Never had a problem with the old ways. I'm sure they changed things to bring in new revenue streams. Won't purchase another iem with c type.





maxdurak said:


> That's what stops me from buying this highly praised IEMs.



This is very concerning.

I wonder if there’s a correlation between the breakage and using stock vs 3rd party (ie QDC) cables? Perhaps the non-stock cables fit just a little bit differently, and put additional stress on the socket?

Luckily, I’ve had zero problems with all of my Paragraph C IEMs (knock on wood). But if KZ is going to continue to migrate IEMs to Paragraph C, they’re gonna have to figure out why some of the sockets are breaking.

On a positive note, they should be relatively easy to repair. A little patch of baking soda/super glue should fix it right up for the cost of a few pennies. Or, a bit of UV epoxy (but you’d have to make a little mold to slip over the stock plug so the resin wouldn’t run out).


----------



## Mouseman

Does anyone (like @Slater) have experience taking off the ZS10 Pro face plates? I'm wondering if there's anything involved other than unscrewing them with the right bit. Is there anything glued to it? I broke down and ordered the blue ones, and I want to swap them onto the blue shells. Thanks!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> This is very concerning.
> 
> I wonder if there’s a correlation between the breakage and using stock vs 3rd party (ie QDC) cables? Perhaps the non-stock cables fit just a little bit differently, and put additional stress on the socket?
> 
> ...



Mine just happened when I tried to take the stock cable off to put it back in the box to sell. The corner of the socket just broke off. Whoops! Still usable although I suspect that It will break for good next cable swap. Cant sell it, so I will just use it. Haha!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jul 31, 2019)

I just put the BA10 cable on my AS10. I will also try my 6 core copper **** cable and one or two other KZ cables.

I find the sound of the stock AS10 great but lacking.

PS: Has anyone compared graph measurements of the ZSN Purple and BA10 copper cables?


----------



## Slater (Jul 31, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> Does anyone (like @Slater) have experience taking off the ZS10 Pro face plates? I'm wondering if there's anything involved other than unscrewing them with the right bit. Is there anything glued to it? I broke down and ordered the blue ones, and I want to swap them onto the blue shells. Thanks!



Yes, I have some experience with removing the face plates lol:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3038#post-15045047

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2791#post-14785588

There’s a minor amount of glue, but once you have the screw out you can just pop it off with your fingernail.

Also be aware that the ZS10 Pro only has (1) ‘real’ screw (ie real in that it actually holds on the face plate). The other screws are for cosmetic purposes only, and don’t even need to be removed. The real screw can be identified because it is significantly longer than the others. 

As a side note, ZSN has (2) real screws and (1) cosmetic.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Mine just happened when I tried to take the stock cable off to put it back in the box to sell. The corner of the socket just broke off. Whoops! Still usable although I suspect that It will break for good next cable swap. Cant sell it, so I will just use it. Haha!



That really sucks buddy. I’m sure your heart sank when that 2-pin socket chunk broke off. It figures it broke as you were getting ready to sell them lol (Murphy’s Law).


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> That really sucks buddy. I’m sure your heart sank when that 2-pin socket chunk broke off. It figures it broke as you were getting ready to sell them lol (Murphy’s Law).


Yea no biggie I have a back up pair, but of course it breaks as Im about to sell em. I guess it was just in the cards for me to keep them.


----------



## Mouseman

Slater said:


> Yes, I have some experience with removing the face plates lol:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3038#post-15045047
> 
> ...


Thanks, I knew you'd know the scoop. I might try a plastic spudger, I don't want to scratch them. 

Those are beautiful mods, by the way. I'll post pictures of the all-blue beauty when I put it together. I'm not sure why they chose the smoked body, but I'll fix that.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mouseman said:


> I'm not sure why they chose the smoked body, but I'll fix that.



I thought that was odd too.  Maybe the blue plate does not exactly match the blue body?


----------



## Mouseman

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought that was odd too.  Maybe the blue plate does not exactly match the blue body?


Maybe, but the smoke really looks crappy. I'll see once the carrier pigeon gets here with those and the KZ TWS buds.


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> Yes, I have some experience with removing the face plates lol:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3038#post-15045047
> 
> ...



Are the "fake" ones glued? I was thinking of swapping the stock screws for black ones on ZS10 Pro but apparently depending on the screw type it won't work, right?


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> Are the "fake" ones glued? I was thinking of swapping the stock screws for black ones on ZS10 Pro but apparently depending on the screw type it won't work, right?



No, not glued, just really short. The short screws actually thread into the metal cover.


----------



## SweetEars (Aug 1, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> New kid "DIY" on the block review!
> 
> I am trying a new DIY earphone, which I bought through taobao: *HIFI BCD micro-drivers*.
> 
> ...




I just got them *HIFI BCD micro-drivers* and listening to them for 10 minutes..  THey do seem to have excellent separation and timbre with some decent musicality  but the treble seems to be slight hazy and the bass is not as pronounced for now .  The soundstage is quite good .. Not sure if they will improve with burn in. But  the same songs i have listened to with other IEMS that cost 4x more compare to this $13 BCD seems  to come more alive especially vocals and instrument ..Pretty surprised how they can give that chi-FI methods of  armature/DD type sound signature with just single drivers. This earbuds are good if u like listening to modern  new age music like like movie soundtracks  like titanic or anything that is symphonic or orchestral.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just put the BA10 cable on my AS10. I will also try my 6 core copper **** cable and one or two other KZ cables.
> 
> I find the sound of the stock AS10 great but lacking.
> 
> PS: Has anyone compared graph measurements of the ZSN Purple and BA10 copper cables?


KZ silver/gold cable has surprisingly balanced and clear sound. My favourite for AS10.


----------



## SenyorC

1clearhead said:


> Good to know! I personally think the ZSN PRO are an upgrade to the ZSN, but the only way you'll know is by getting yourself a pair.
> ...I look forward to your review, if you decide to get one.



Ok ok, ordered!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 1, 2019)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> KZ silver/gold cable has surprisingly balanced and clear sound. My favourite for AS10.


Thanks for the rec. I ordered that cable a couple days ago.

I plan on trying all cables with the AS10. Maybe my favourite iem right now.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mouseman said:


> Maybe, but the smoke really looks crappy. I'll see once the carrier pigeon gets here with those and the KZ TWS buds.



I think it will look better than you think.  It should look darker in normal lighting plus when you wear it  people will only notice the blue face plate.  Swapping them though should look the best...assuming that the blue plate and the blue body are close in hue.


----------



## CYoung234

Tonymac136 said:


> How do the ZS10 Pro compare to the original ZS10? I need another pair of budget IEMs like a hole in the head and it's taking money out of the HD6XX fund but I'd really like to know.



For me it is sort of apples and oranges. The original ZS10 is still one of my favorite iems, even after buying the CCA C16 and ZS10 PRO. THe ZS10 has a bit looser bass, but for me, a lot of bass. Good balance for me with the ZS10. The ZS10 PRO is tighter, and instruments have a bit more oomph. The original ZS10 has better sound stage for me and is a bit airier. I keep going back and forth on these, and whichever one is in my ears becomes the favorite... 

Unfortunately, for me, the C16 is starting to move into 3rd place, even though it costs as much as the other two combined. It is, for me, a bit too analytical, and is not engaging like the other two are.


----------



## mbwilson111

CYoung234 said:


> whichever one is in my ears becomes the favorite...



...that should be in my signature.


----------



## Nimweth

CYoung234 said:


> For me it is sort of apples and oranges. The original ZS10 is still one of my favorite iems, even after buying the CCA C16 and ZS10 PRO. THe ZS10 has a bit looser bass, but for me, a lot of bass. Good balance for me with the ZS10. The ZS10 PRO is tighter, and instruments have a bit more oomph. The original ZS10 has better sound stage for me and is a bit airier. I keep going back and forth on these, and whichever one is in my ears becomes the favorite...
> 
> Unfortunately, for me, the C16 is starting to move into 3rd place, even though it costs as much as the other two combined. It is, for me, a bit too analytical, and is not engaging like the other two are.


I didn't get on with the original ZS10, but I feel the same about the ZS7 versus the C16 as you do with the ZS10 Pro. The ZS7 is so entertaining!


----------



## 40lb

Comparisons
Part 1: ZS10 Pro vs Hifiman RE600 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3082#post-15090205
Part 2: ZS10 Pro vs IE800s https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-3084#post-15092162
Part 3: ZS10 Pro vs Andromeda https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3084#post-15094616

Part 4: ZS10 Pro vs Solaris
 
The sub-bass on the Solaris is deeper and with a slower decay compared to the ZS10 Pro, in a way you may think it is dragging on putting them side by side. ZS10 Pro seems to have a similar impact from the mid-bass with Solaris but the Solaris’s bass feels more balanced and controlled while the ZS10 Pro has a faster hitting bass with less body. The Solaris has more of a forward sound in the mids with a natural tone and fantastic body with better detail. The ZS10 Pro in comparison is more neutral sounding in the mids making the mids sounds a little pulled back when putting side by side. Listening to the ZS10 Pro’s treble is crisp, defined, smooth and exhibits a good extension however stacking it against the Solaris you feel a lack of airiness and control. The Solaris’s treble has a better extension, more airiness, more control, and is definitely the brighter of the two. The Solaris was a very wide soundstage and compared to the ZS10 Pro the soundstage is noticeably narrower, but that doesn’t mean the ZS10 Pro is lacking in soundstage. The Solaris can give good separation but I feel the ZS10 Pro is actually not that far off from the Solaris in this aspect when playing certain tracks, the same songs that had me feel congested with the ZS10 Pro I felt a little with the Solaris.

DAP:
Shanling M5s (2.5mm balanced only)

Tracks:
Kiss of Death – Mika Nakashima
Rightfully – Mili
Compared to What – Roberta Flack
Fairy Fountain – Mikel and Gamechops
Earfquake – Tyler, The Creator
Hard Times - Paramore
Old Town Road – Lil Nas X
Brandy – Looking Glass
Come A Little Bit Closer – Jay & the Americans
Imagine – Ariana Grande
Come Away with Me – Norah Jones
May I Have This Dance (Remix) – Francis and the Lights


----------



## steviewonderbread

Blue-plate ZS10P just showed up on Prime for me in the US.


----------



## lgcubana

steviewonderbread said:


> Blue-plate ZS10P just showed up on Prime for me in the US.








Figures, I just received my Amazon order this morning and  I really wanted the Royal Blue plate. But this order was intended to be a stop gap, for my impatience for my overseas orders; which are a month out.


----------



## SkippyMcHaggis

question that might have been answered already, but there's a lot of thread to search:

I have a pair of ZS10 Pros that seem to have some issue with muffled bass.  I don't see any blockages in any of the vents.  Is there anywhere else I should look?  I have two other pairs that work just fine and have tons of bass.

if it's not something I can fix, is it worth it trying to deal with KZ?  Thanks for any info.

and if anyone wants my $0.02, these are awesome value for money.  Like almost everyone on head-fi, I have a number of much more expensive IEMS, and these have got to be about 99% as good as my favorites.  they are great straight from an iphone, a shanling m0, an opus 1, amped through an RSA Predator, or out of a Schitt stack on my PC.  it gets harder and harder to justify $XXX+ gear the more chi-fi that i get a chance to hear.


----------



## lgcubana

SkippyMcHaggis said:


> question that might have been answered already, but there's a lot of thread to search:
> 
> I have a pair of ZS10 Pros that seem to have some issue with muffled bass.  I don't see any blockages in any of the vents.  Is there anywhere else I should look?  I have two other pairs that work just fine and have tons of bass.
> 
> ...


I just unboxed mine this morning and for the life of me, I couldn't find any indication as to what's L or R.  Is it possible you reversed your earpieces, which would put you out of phase ?


----------



## SkippyMcHaggis

the cable has an R and an L (really hard to see on the clear plastic), and then there's really only one way to connect things that would actually fit in your ears the right way, so i don't think that's the issue, sadly.

the pair i have that aren't working right actually don't sound terrible, they are just missing the deep bass that I know these IEMs can put out.  the trebles are pretty clear, which is why I think it's something with the bass drivers, but I can't find any blocked ports or anything, so I don't know what else to try.


----------



## Makahl (Aug 1, 2019)

SkippyMcHaggis said:


> question that might have been answered already, but there's a lot of thread to search:
> 
> I have a pair of ZS10 Pros that seem to have some issue with muffled bass.  I don't see any blockages in any of the vents.  Is there anywhere else I should look?  I have two other pairs that work just fine and have tons of bass.
> 
> ...



Do you remember this pair sounding fine at some point? Is it happening on one side or the 2 sides are showing this issue?

I'd test another cable (might one of the good pairs) just to make sure you didn't get a lemon cable wired inverted. Another guess would be the crossover PCB missing some solder point. I think there was a case in the past that the PCB was not properly soldered. Or a QC issue when DD hasn't been sealed 100% leaking at some point and losing the bass.

Personally, I'd ask for a refund depending on the place you've got it.


----------



## RvTrav

Sorry to go off topic but are any other Canadians having trouble receiving parcels shipped by SunYou Economic Air Mail.  I have 4 overdue packages that show that they turned over to the Last Mile Carrier (Canada Post?)  a long time ago.  One package is from the 15th of April.  I have extended the protection a couple of times but think I will have to open some disputes.


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> I just unboxed mine this morning and for the life of me, I couldn't find any indication as to what's L or R.  Is it possible you reversed your earpieces, which would put you out of phase ?



It’s always nice to have channel identifiers on the IEM shells. When they don’t, here’s a handy guide showing the correct orientation of the shells and cable:

1. Hold up the IEM so that the ‘pointy’ part of the shell is facing down.
2. Now look at what direction the nozzle/eartip is pointing towards.
3. If the nozzle/eartip is pointing to the LEFT, then that’s the LEFT IEM shell.
4. If the nozzle/eartip is pointing to the RIGHT, then that’s the RIGHT IEM shell.


----------



## courierdriver

RvTrav said:


> Sorry to go off topic but are any other Canadians having trouble receiving parcels shipped by SunYou Economic Air Mail.  I have 4 overdue packages that show that they turned over to the Last Mile Carrier (Canada Post?)  a long time ago.  One package is from the 15th of April.  I have extended the protection a couple of times but think I will have to open some disputes.


I've never dealt with SunYou Economic Airmail before. Whenever I buy from Aliexpress I always select Aliexpress Standard Shipping. It's usually free from most sellers, and the rare time it isn't, the cost is like an extra $2.50 Cdn. Also comes with tracking and I've never waited more than 2.5 weeks total. If you haven't done so already, I would register a dispute with Ali. And in the future, try to use Aliexpress Standard Shipping. It's 15-30 days, with tracking and most sellers offer it free. I've never had a problem using this shipping method and I've never had to pay any extra duties or taxes. It just shows up in my mailbox.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> It’s always nice to have channel identifiers on the IEM shells. When they don’t, here’s a handy guide showing the correct orientation of the shells and cable:
> 
> 1. Hold up the IEM so that the ‘pointy’ part of the shell is facing down.
> 2. Now look at what direction the nozzle/eartip is pointing towards.
> ...


As always, Slater...you are a wealth of useful information. Thanks! This will come in handy when I get my new Nicehck cables that I might want to try on the ZS10 PRO. Seriously though, would it kill KZ to somehow mark the iems themselves? Even a red crayon on the right earpiece would be something, at least!


----------



## archdawg (Aug 2, 2019)

SkippyMcHaggis said:


> Like almost everyone on head-fi, I have a number of much more expensive IEMS, and these have got to be about 99% as good as my favorites. they are great straight from an iphone, a shanling m0, an opus 1, amped through an RSA Predator, or out of a Schitt stack on my PC. it gets harder and harder to justify $XXX+ gear the more chi-fi that i get a chance to hear.


+1. Thanks to chi-fi it'll be getting harder and harder for many manufacturers of higher end phones to justify their prices just based on the sonic technicalities of their creations. I paid 28€ for my 10Pro and while they're not the technically most sophisticated IEM in my stash they certainly don't sound 1000€ or more away from the upper tier to my ears either and I can't wait for the next happy accidents of that sort. Like I've posted before my set needed a pretty long break-in phase (200+ hours) for the drivers to literally get their act together but after all I still prefer the ZS7 for the majority of my tracks - faster, punchier bass with less bleed, significantly better coherency (fast transients) as well as clarity and separation of instruments especially in crowded tracks. In some of my trusty test tracks the brass sections sound somewhat messy through the 10Pro whereas the 7 and my higher end IEMs render those parts with significantly better separation among the different horns.
The 10Pro OTOH beat the 7 with more natural sounding mids and highs, a more fluent, more cohesive and smoother presentation with better balance but the comparatively slow and less textured bass really leaves me wanting here and there, just a personal thing - YMMV.


----------



## youngarthur

Just received. Small case, easily fits in pocket. Removed buds, immediately connected to iPhone. Excellent fit first time.Am playing at around 95% volume, with my old ears.Excellent instrument separation, and width/depth of sound field.Treble is bright and clear, but not overpowering, a good depth of Bass,with no bleed up.Mids blend well, certainly not forward like some. More listening, to get a definite view.


----------



## shockdoc

youngarthur said:


> Just received. Small case, easily fits in pocket. Removed buds, immediately connected to iPhone. Excellent fit first time.Am playing at around 95% volume, with my old ears.Excellent instrument separation, and width/depth of sound field.Treble is bright and clear, but not overpowering, a good depth of Bass,with no bleed up.Mids blend well, certainly not forward like some. More listening, to get a definite view.



Awesome! Looking forward to a more in-depth review!   (We now, apparently, will need a new, TWS, emoji. I guess it could just look like a regular emoji since TWS are getting smaller and smaller and harder to see.LOL)


----------



## Mouseman

youngarthur said:


> Just received. Small case, easily fits in pocket. Removed buds, immediately connected to iPhone. Excellent fit first time.Am playing at around 95% volume, with my old ears.Excellent instrument separation, and width/depth of sound field.Treble is bright and clear, but not overpowering, a good depth of Bass,with no bleed up.Mids blend well, certainly not forward like some. More listening, to get a definite view.


I'm so jealous, and can't wait to hear your impressions after some time (and how the battery life is). Mine are on the slow boat, I got twitchy and pulled the trigger on them and the blue ZS10 Pros.


----------



## khighly

youngarthur said:


> Just received. Small case, easily fits in pocket. Removed buds, immediately connected to iPhone. Excellent fit first time.Am playing at around 95% volume, with my old ears.Excellent instrument separation, and width/depth of sound field.Treble is bright and clear, but not overpowering, a good depth of Bass,with no bleed up.Mids blend well, certainly not forward like some. More listening, to get a definite view.


Looks like they sourced some parts from MIFO (underside of lid). Is there high latency while watching videos on the T1's? My pair should arrive tomorrow or Monday I think.


----------



## Slater (Aug 2, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> As always, Slater...you are a wealth of useful information. Thanks! This will come in handy when I get my new Nicehck cables that I might want to try on the ZS10 PRO. Seriously though, would it kill KZ to somehow mark the iems themselves? Even a red crayon on the right earpiece would be something, at least!



I do agree with you. It’s not that hard, and they certainly love to print other useless gubbins on the shells (ie “10 driver super hybrid high resolution”). So it shouldn’t be hard to also print “L/R” or “Left/Right” on there too!

Here’s a simple solution that I’ve done to a few IEMs:

I use the sharp point of something sharp (like a tungsten carbide scribe, diamond-tipped engraving tool, scratch awl, the tip of a sewing needle, etc) and I scratch/etch a small "L" and "R" on each earpiece in an inconspicuous place:

Here's an example of the "R" I added to the KZ ZST (small and very inconspicuous, but large enough to see when I look for it):


----------



## pbui44

40lb said:


> Comparisons
> Part 1: ZS10 Pro vs Hifiman RE600 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3082#post-15090205
> Part 2: ZS10 Pro vs IE800s https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-3084#post-15092162
> Part 3: ZS10 Pro vs Andromeda https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3084#post-15094616
> ...



Awesome KZ ZS10 Pro vs. TOTL IEMs comparisons. If I had my way, I would make @Slater post these comparisons on his signature.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I do agree with you. It’s not that hard, and they certainly love to print other useless gubbins on the shells (ie “10 driver super hybrid high resolution”). So it shouldn’t be hard to also print “L/R” or “Left/Right” on there too!
> 
> Here’s a simple solution that I’ve done to a few IEMs:
> 
> ...


Yeah, bro...that's cool and all, but I'm not sure I could do that with a box cutter, shaky hands, and poor eyesight, without either damaging the iems or myself. Lol! Maybe just some red nail polish to indicate right might be a safer bet. Now, I just need to find a brand that doesn't easily chip, run off, or otherwise come off easily. Hopefully, I won't have the drug store's cosmetic rep call security. Ie...52-year-old man walks into a pharmacy cosmetics department and asks for red nail polish that doesn't easily come off. Police taser him, and dies as a result of pacemaker failure/damage. On second thought...maybe box cutter scratches are safer.


----------



## baskingshark

Slater said:


> I do agree with you. It’s not that hard, and they certainly love to print other useless gubbins on the shells (ie “10 driver super hybrid high resolution”). So it shouldn’t be hard to also print “L/R” or “Left/Right” on there too!
> 
> Here’s a simple solution that I’ve done to a few IEMs:
> 
> ...



I would feel pain if I etched my IEM shells. I know there are pros who use lasers to do this though. It may affect the resale value of the IEM also? (but for < $50 USD budget CHIFI IEMs we will most probably just buy another one anyway).


----------



## courierdriver

Mouseman said:


> Thanks, I knew you'd know the scoop. I might try a plastic spudger, I don't want to scratch them.
> 
> Those are beautiful mods, by the way. I'll post pictures of the all-blue beauty when I put it together. I'm not sure why they chose the smoked body, but I'll fix that.


Oh, yeah! Please do post pics. I sure do wish that KZ would offer that color combo from factory.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> I would feel pain if I etched my IEM shells. I know there are pros who use lasers to do this though. It may affect the resale value of the IEM also? (but for < $50 USD budget CHIFI IEMs we will most probably just buy another one anyway).


Yeah, I don't think anyone buying $50 earphones are concerned with resale value. I bought a set a couple months ago as a daily driver. Was so impressed, I bought another set to give to someone in my family for Christmas. Now, I wanna buy a set in blue, with the blue faceplate. Just because they sound so great, and the blue faceplate on a blue body, would look so cool!


----------



## Nimweth

KZ ZS10 Pro ordered today. I hope they live up to my expectations and measure up to my ZS7!


----------



## nxnje

Nimweth said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro ordered today. I hope they live up to my expectations and measure up to my ZS7!


Both are technically excellent but zs10 pro is more suited to be an all-rounder while ZS7 is more focused in being a super energic IEM for specific genres imho.
Sure you'll like it.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Guys.
I've taken the plunge and bought myself a FIIO M11 and now looking at a Balanced cable to fit my KZ iems. Type B connection as that will fit all including ZS10Pro.
Either 2.5 or 4.4 as m11 has both.
And not too pricey
Any advice.
TIA


----------



## youngarthur

archdawg said:


> +1. Thanks to chi-fi it'll be getting harder and harder for many manufacturers of higher end phones to justify their prices just based on the sonic technicalities of their creations. I paid 28€ for my 10Pro and while they're not the technically most sophisticated IEM in my stash they certainly don't sound 1000€ or more away from the upper tier to my ears either and I can't wait for the next happy accidents of that sort. Like I've posted before my set needed a pretty long break-in phase (200+ hours) for the drivers to literally get their act together but after all I still prefer the ZS7 for the majority of my tracks - faster, punchier bass with less bleed, significantly better coherency (fast transients) as well as clarity and separation of instruments especially in crowded tracks. In some of my trusty test tracks the brass sections sound somewhat messy through the 10Pro whereas the 7 and my higher end IEMs render those parts with significantly better separation among the different horns.
> The 10Pro OTOH beat the 7 with more natural sounding mids and highs, a more fluent, more cohesive and smoother presentation with better balance but the comparatively slow and less textured bass really leaves me wanting here and there, just a personal thing - YMMV.


I had W60, 846, but sold, as I get around 90% sound from Chi-fi.I also sold HD800, HEK,as I get around the same from Verum1. I think some manufactures will suffer sales, when more people find these type of products.


----------



## Nimweth

I just popped in the ED9s and listened to some classical music, using the dull brass filters. Wonderful! After months of using multi-driver IEMs it is remarkable how good the ED9 sounds with a micro DD. Soundstage is super and the tonality really natural and the transient response is quick and clean. If KZ revisited these with a detachable cable they'd be giant killers.


----------



## igorneumann

Nimweth said:


> I just popped in the ED9s and listened to some classical music, using the dull brass filters. Wonderful! After months of using multi-driver IEMs it is remarkable how good the ED9 sounds with a micro DD. Soundstage is super and the tonality really natural and the transient response is quick and clean. If KZ revisited these with a detachable cable they'd be giant killers.



The ED9 doest stay in my ear, but I agree it sounds awesome!

I just bought some plastic earhooks that atrach to the cable to see if I can finally use them.

Spinfit did the job but I have just one and Im using it in the ED15, they are just too expensive (cost as much as the earphone itself).


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 3, 2019)

youngarthur said:


> Just received. Small case, easily fits in pocket. Removed buds, immediately connected to iPhone. Excellent fit first time.Am playing at around 95% volume, with my old ears.Excellent instrument separation, and width/depth of sound field.Treble is bright and clear, but not overpowering, a good depth of Bass,with no bleed up.Mids blend well, certainly not forward like some. More listening, to get a definite view.



Damn Im jealous... And glad you didnt found any obvious flaw in this "beta" (yet?).  It sounds awesome!

Does it stick too far out in your ear?

Hope mine gets here soon.


----------



## actorlife (Aug 3, 2019)

youngarthur said:


> Just received. Small case, easily fits in pocket. Removed buds, immediately connected to iPhone. Excellent fit first time.Am playing at around 95% volume, with my old ears.Excellent instrument separation, and width/depth of sound field.Treble is bright and clear, but not overpowering, a good depth of Bass,with no bleed up.Mids blend well, certainly not forward like some. More listening, to get a definite view.


Don't keep us waiting too long. Really appreciate you posting. Looking forward to the battery life at 50 percent volume, mids, bass, treble sparkle and soundstage. Please make sure to share your review here as well: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-675#post-15101328
Thanks.


----------



## baskingshark

youngarthur said:


> I had W60, 846, but sold, as I get around 90% sound from Chi-fi.I also sold HD800, HEK,as I get around the same from Verum1. I think some manufactures will suffer sales, when more people find these type of products.



Fully agree. I would subjectively say my KZ ZS10 Pro can reach about 80 - 90% in sound quality of my westone W30 (in terms of details/clarity/bass/soundstage), but costs 10x less. If I had known about such great offerings from CHIFI before I had gotten the westone 3 years back, I would not have spent the cash for a marginal improvement.

I think the TOTL brands won't suffer as most CHIFI companies cannot reach their standard at this point in time, and there's always a niche market for the top end consumers.
It's the mid range/budget range western brands that will face some competition from CHIFI in the next few months, when more savvy consumers realize the money they are paying does not equate to as good a price: performance ratio as the CHIFI companies. More competition is always good for us consumers too.

But having said that, I have tried recommending CHIFI gear to my audiophile or band friends, and quite a number of them are snobbish when it comes to brand names, and would stick to their western brand gear without even wanting to test my stuff. Their common perception is that CHIFI has no reliable QC, which may be true for some products I gotta say. But I usually tell them that other than some TOTL gear, most of these western gear are made in China anyway (but maybe the western brands do have stricter QC before selling to consumers in order to maintain their brandname standards).

Slowly but surely, I think the budget/midFI range consumers would come around to see the possibilities that CHIFI can provide at a decent pricing, and in just a short span of the past 3 - 4 years, these CHIFI companies have already gotten a big footprint in this lower market segment. I'm very interested to see how they will evolve over the next few years.


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## rayliam80 (Aug 4, 2019)

CYoung234 said:


> For me it is sort of apples and oranges. The original ZS10 is still one of my favorite iems, even after buying the CCA C16 and ZS10 PRO. THe ZS10 has a bit looser bass, but for me, a lot of bass. Good balance for me with the ZS10. The ZS10 PRO is tighter, and instruments have a bit more oomph. The original ZS10 has better sound stage for me and is a bit airier. I keep going back and forth on these, and whichever one is in my ears becomes the favorite...
> 
> Unfortunately, for me, the C16 is starting to move into 3rd place, even though it costs as much as the other two combined. It is, for me, a bit too analytical, and is not engaging like the other two are.



@Tonymac136

I still use my ZS10 at least a few times a month. They're definitely warmer than the ZS10 Pro which I find to be fatiguing after awhile. I also like the mid-bass on the ZS10 which I feel like image bass guitar really well. Other instruments, it seems a bit more average. ZS10 Pro images instruments better overall though. Still, I enjoy the ZS10 for listening to older indie rock  (80s - 90s stuff) and warm electronic stuff like Com Truise, for example. The ZS10 also needs a good source. The ZS10 sounds kinda awful with the iPad's headphone output when listening to music (Spotify) but in my V30 or my desktop headphone setup they sound much better. The ZS10 Pro sounds decent but useable with the iPad in comparison and fantastic with the V30 - so it seems less source dependent. And I don't have any trouble with the fit of the ZS10 despite being one of the largest IEMs in my collection. Some people had an issue with the short nozzle and the bulbous shell. The ZS10 Pro fits my ear well but I have to adjust them more so that one of the edges doesn't rub my ear too much. But once they're in properly, it's good to go. Something else to consider.


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## Tonymac136

Thanks for the feedback. I may just stick with the ZS10 for now as I have no issues with the fit, a lot of my listening is 1990s indie and most of my sources are reasonable


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## LaughMoreDaily

The ZS5 v2 sounds pretty awesome with the 8 core silver KZ cable. Thank goodness, cause with the stock cable it was average. A great bargain iem.


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## SinisterDev

I just got my ZS10 Pro's in today... And i think I'm love lol


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## LaughMoreDaily

Tonymac136 said:


> A lot of my listening is 1990s indie and most of my sources are reasonable.


Which iems do you think output old recordings the best?


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## rayliam80

So I just did the spacer mod with my Tin Audio P1 to increase the bass presence and body with my Auvio tips. Sounds great. Then I thought what if I did it with the ZS10 Pro?

Bass. Lemme tell you....

If you felt like your ZS10 Pro was a little bass shy (which I don't think it is), try the spacer mod trick. @HungryPanda mentioned it months ago using mechanical keyboard silencer spacers on the KZ thread. I just sacrificed some old tips I'll never use by cutting the tube thinly to make the spacer. These sound more fun now. I may keep these on just for the heck of it....


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## Tonymac136

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which iems do you think output old recordings the best?



Based on the sets I have -
KZ ZS10 - sparkly and enjoyable - maybe not the most accurate with instruments. Downright painful with treble heavy recordings (Oasis - Definitely Maybe). Fatiguing after an hour.
Blon BL03 - Smooth and lush with good treble. Sound much better with an amp. Can be a bit enclosed and a bit lifeless with Spotify and a phone. Unforgiving of poor recordings. If I have all my IEMs to hand I will have either the Blons or the KZ in my ears.
Sennheiser IE 60 - very similar to the Blons but more of all the good and bad points
Tin T2. Jack of all trades, master of none. If I am in an eclectic mood, if I don't have an amp with me, the Tins are the ones I take.
TRN V80 - Like the KZ these are exciting sounding but they're probably my least favourite set of IEMs.
My home audio setup is Rega Planar 2 or Nad C541i, Nad C350, Wharfedale Pacific PI30. Head setup is either phone or Cambridge DacMagic into Little Dot 1+ or SMSL Sanskrit 6 into LD MK3. Everyday home cans are K702s and HE400i. I prefer fast accurate bass with some presence, authority in the mids and treble I prefer to be slightly elevated as my hearing is shot above about 14khz.


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## Nimweth

Further to my earlier post on the ED9, if you have one, try this:

Amazing soundstage and wonderfully natural timbre. And all at a bargain basement price! Go figure.


----------



## Nimweth

I have been using Spiral Dots on the ED9 (I know, they cost more than the earphones!) but in almost every case I find wide bore tips improve the sound of an IEM. So why don't manufacturers supply wide bore tips with IEMs? They must cost the same as standard tips.


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## baskingshark (Aug 4, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I have been using Spiral Dots on the ED9 (I know, they cost more than the earphones!) but in almost every case I find wide bore tips improve the sound of an IEM. So why don't manufacturers supply wide bore tips with IEMs? They must cost the same as standard tips.



For that matter, a lot of budget CHIFI IEMs come with minimal accessories or rubbish stock tips/cables. (I'm looking at you ****, especially the horrendous red flange eartips).
Probably it's to keep costs low, but sometimes I feel they do a disservice to their decent IEMs by giving lousy eartips and cables. The less experienced consumer that doesn't roll tips would just go away thinking the sound is bad and they have lost future sales thereafter.


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> For that matter, a lot of budget CHIFI IEMs come with minimal accessories or rubbish stock tips/cables. (I'm looking at you ****, especially the horrendous red flange eartips).
> Probably it's to keep costs low, but sometimes I feel they do a disservice to their decent IEMs by giving lousy eartips and cables. The less experienced consumer that doesn't roll tips would just go away thinking the sound is bad and they have lost future sales thereafter.


Yes, I agree, the cable and tips which came with the **** were dreadful. It's amazing how much difference a good cable and tips made in this case.


----------



## lgcubana (Aug 4, 2019)

Question: has anyone else noticed that the included cable (the mic'd version) puts out more mid bass than the non-mic version and even aftermarket "upgrade" cables ?

Long version:
Here's a bit of weirdness, I ordered my second ZS10 Pro, in the span of three days (that's not the weird part) and got it yesterday.  I immediately plugged it into an iPad, for a 48 hour burn in. I elected to use the stock cable; the one with the mic option.  As is my habit, I took a quick listen. To make sure that I didn't have a DOA unit and was surprised at the initial depth of low end;  it had much more presence then the initial listen of the first unit.

With the first unit I had (inadvertently) ordered an "upgrade" cable that was on the banned list on this site.  For the sake of anonymity, let's call it brand YoYo.  The specific model is the YoYo 8 core silver plated, QDC.

I never used the stock cable (non mic version) with the first piece,  I used the YoYo, from the word go.

Today I listened to both and the second unit definitely has more mid bass.  I went through a series of diagnostic steps and realize it's not the earpieces, but the stock, mic'd cable.  I've tried all three cables on both units and the richer mid bass sticks with the mic'd cable.

Thanks for reading the long version, you can go back to the initial question.


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


> Question: has anyone else noticed that the included cable (the mic'd version) puts out more mid bass than the non-mic version and even aftermarket "upgrade" cables ?
> 
> Long version:
> Here's a bit of weirdness, I ordered my second ZS10 Pro, in the span of three days (that's not the weird part) and got it yesterday.  I immediately plugged it into an iPad, for a 48 hour burn in. I elected to use the stock cable; the one with the mic option.  As is my habit, I took a quick listen. To make sure that I didn't have a DOA unit and was surprised at the initial depth of low end;  it had much more presence then the initial listen of the first unit.
> ...


I can't speak for the version with mic, I only have non mic versions. I'm not a fan of adding an extra device (like a mic) in between the source and an already mediocre cable like the ones KZ ships with. Both the ZS10 PRO's I bought have no mic. The cable on my original ZS10 PRO was used for about 10-15 hours, just to break them in and to make sure they worked...and until my balanced JCally upgrade cable came in about 3 days later. Soon as it came, the stock no mic cable got swapped and I never went back. Honestly, I never did a whole lot of critical listening with the stock cable without mic. Like I say: I would never buy any earphone with a mic because it degrades the signal from the source and adds extra resistance and capacitance, which has the potential to alter the sound.


----------



## SinisterDev

Hrrm interesting. I'm going to have to see if i notice a difference. I recently picked up the CCA C10 with a mic and the ZS10 Pro without a mic.  Turns out the ZS10 Pro cable's jack isn't long enough to plug into my phone with the current case I'm using, so i ended up swapping cables around. I'm going to check out both cables on both pairs of IEMs and see if I can pick up on a difference.


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> I can't speak for the version with mic, I only have non mic versions. I'm not a fan of adding an extra device (like a mic) in between the source and an already mediocre cable like the ones KZ ships with. Both the ZS10 PRO's I bought have no mic. The cable on my original ZS10 PRO was used for about 10-15 hours, just to break them in and to make sure they worked...and until my balanced JCally upgrade cable came in about 3 days later. Soon as it came, the stock no mic cable got swapped and I never went back. Honestly, I never did a whole lot of critical listening with the stock cable without mic. Like I say: I would never buy any earphone with a mic because it degrades the signal from the source and adds extra resistance and capacitance, which has the potential to alter the sound.



I can hear the difference with cable that has mic. Not all cable does, but mostly I can hear the difference. Usually the side that has the mic will have lower volume like a very small difference, but it is very hard to notice. That's why I avoid buying IEM with mic cable.


----------



## hakuzen

lgcubana said:


> Question: has anyone else noticed that the included cable (the mic'd version) puts out more mid bass than the non-mic version and even aftermarket "upgrade" cables ?
> 
> Long version:
> Here's a bit of weirdness, I ordered my second ZS10 Pro, in the span of three days (that's not the weird part) and got it yesterday.  I immediately plugged it into an iPad, for a 48 hour burn in. I elected to use the stock cable; the one with the mic option.  As is my habit, I took a quick listen. To make sure that I didn't have a DOA unit and was surprised at the initial depth of low end;  it had much more presence then the initial listen of the first unit.
> ...



check my measurements of one kz zsn stock cable (braided brown one) with mic.. ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985640 )
(016) kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (brown)........................*2260*..*1161*..831..815
2.2ohms at left side! more than 1ohm difference with right side.
this leads to a noticeable imbalance. but so high resistance in the cable also affects to frequency response of the balanced armatures, specially highs. you are getting a highs roll off probably, so you notice louder bass, darker sound overall.


----------



## igorneumann

Just came to say that Im very impressed by the KZ T1, they arent "good for a TWS" but a objectivelly good IEM and do sound better then many wired IEMs.


----------



## lgcubana

hakuzen said:


> check my measurements of one kz zsn stock cable (braided brown one) with mic.. ( https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985640 )
> (016) kz zsn stock mic spc 4c (brown)........................*2260*..*1161*..831..815
> 2.2ohms at left side! more than 1ohm difference with right side.
> this leads to a noticeable imbalance. but so high resistance in the cable also affects to frequency response of the balanced armatures, specially highs. you are getting a highs roll off probably, so you notice louder bass, darker sound overall.


Thanks for the info


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

My current love ... KZ AS12 + Linsoul 7N OCC Silver Plated Cable


----------



## shockdoc

igorneumann said:


> Just came to say that Im very impressed by the KZ T1, they arent "good for a TWS" but a objectivelly good IEM and do sound better then many wired IEMs.



What about battery life and connectivity? I think with their problems maintaining a connection with their previous bluetooth products that's as much of a concern, if not more than their SQ. :-/


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 5, 2019)

shockdoc said:


> What about battery life and connectivity? I think with their problems maintaining a connection with their previous bluetooth products that's as much of a concern, if not more than their SQ. :-/



Ill report on battery life tomorrow as today I will not have time to empty it... but the connection is rock solid so far, (1h listening).
The only problem I found so far is too few volume steps.

UPDATE: Found another small problem, 1 tap is to stop/play, 2 taps next/previous song, but all the times I tried it detected just 1 of the 2 taps, so had to tap again to unpause it and double-tap.


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## pbui44

For UK people: @0rangutan has a slew of KZs for sale:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-iems-bundle-ate-hifi-zs5-ed9-ed4.912371/


----------



## Caipirina

Got my KZ T1 today and posted my first impressions over here 

Short: great sound, minor flaws.


----------



## PhonoPhi

xxAMAROKxx said:


> My current love ... KZ AS12 + Linsoul 7N OCC Silver Plated Cable


Looks cool!
Hoe do AS12 compare with AS10 and AS16?


----------



## macky112

HungryPanda said:


> I do not have the it01 but I highly recommend the it01s if you can get a good fit. A lot of people don't but I found it ok once I put a keyboard spacer on the nozzle of each earpiece that stopped the tips sliding down too far.


Hi have problem of ear tips slipping off, not sliding down too far, any suggestions I can try to stop that?


----------



## steviewonderbread

ZS10 Pro pairs really well with Apple's USB-C DAC! (Actually, almost everything does. A steal for $9.) Keep finding myself going back to these IEMs for everything except when I'm in the mood for something very analytical. The tips I'm currently having luck with are from the Final Audio E2000.


----------



## Makahl (Aug 16, 2019)

The ZS10 Pro blue is my daily driver now and I'm rather happy with it! Unless a new single DD that isn't in a 100% metallic shell and sounds an upgrade from KPE shows up I'll stick with ZS10 Pro or a new KZ following this path with minor upgrades. (slightly deeper extension at sub-bass would be nicee).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 5, 2019)

I'm currently listening to ska punk with the ZS10 v1 and Walnut F2 DAP. Both of them sound incredible together.

The v1 might not be a "Pro" at playing music like the Pro model but it sure shouldn't be an iem we love to hate! It's just a bitch for taking too long to burn in (and sound great).

PS: Rumour has it that there is a ZS10 v2 (redesign of v1)? How is it?


----------



## Nimweth

Makahl said:


> I sold my Kanas Pro and Oxygen due to annoying imbalance issue. The ZS10 Pro blue is my daily driver now and I'm rather happy with it! Unless a new single DD that isn't in a 100% metallic shell and sounds an upgrade from KPE shows up I'll stick with ZS10 Pro or a new KZ following this path with minor upgrades. (slightly deeper extension at sub-bass would be nicee).


Slightly deeper sub-bass extension? KZ? ZS7!


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Fully agree. I would subjectively say my KZ ZS10 Pro can reach about 80 - 90% in sound quality of my westone W30 (in terms of details/clarity/bass/soundstage), but costs 10x less. If I had known about such great offerings from CHIFI before I had gotten the westone 3 years back, I would not have spent the cash for a marginal improvement.
> 
> I think the TOTL brands won't suffer as most CHIFI companies cannot reach their standard at this point in time, and there's always a niche market for the top end consumers.
> It's the mid range/budget range western brands that will face some competition from CHIFI in the next few months, when more savvy consumers realize the money they are paying does not equate to as good a price: performance ratio as the CHIFI companies. More competition is always good for us consumers too.
> ...


If it wasn't for this type of thread here on headfi, and BGGAR's channel on YouTube, I would never have known about Chifi gear. After many years of not being able to get good at an affordable (to me) price sound, I gave up on my Audiophilia. This Chifi stuff has got me back into this hobby again; by making superb sounding gear at an affordable price. The Western brands need to stop charging such high prices for their stuff. It's just all pure profit in their pockets. Chfi shows us that similar products can be made and sold for less. As a consumer, THAT'S what I care about! I can't afford the high prices that Western companies charge, therefore, that keeps me out of the game. If Chifi gets me 90% there, for less than half or quarter the cost, then I'm in, and I can play. Otherwise, I can't afford to be involved. As much as I'd love to be in the position to buy $1000+ gear, I'm just not in that income bracket.


----------



## SinisterDev

Same here. I only discovered these awesome, budget IEMs a few weeks ago and I'm so grateful for it. I can already see this turning into a hobby that I can actually afford lol. My first pair was the CCA C10 and now I just picked up the ZS10 Pro and I really love em!


----------



## Assimilator702

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm currently listening to ska punk with the ZS10 v1 and Walnut F2 DAP. Both of them sound incredible together.
> 
> The v1 might not be a "Pro" at playing music like the Pro model but it sure shouldn't be an iem we love to hate! It's just a bitch for taking too long to burn in (and sound great).
> 
> PS: Rumour has it that there is a ZS10 v2 (redesign of v1)? How is it?


 I could never get past the chesty and  honky vocals from the ZS10 plus those things were much too large for my ears. They ALWAYS felt like they were slipping out.  I’m glad I was able to return them. There’s a ZS10 PRO if that’s what you’re referring to. Have you been reading this thread? ZS10 PRO is all anyone has been talking about.


----------



## courierdriver

Makahl said:


> I sold my Kanas Pro and Oxygen due to annoying imbalance issue. The ZS10 Pro blue is my daily driver now and I'm rather happy with it! Unless a new single DD that isn't in a 100% metallic shell and sounds an upgrade from KPE shows up I'll stick with ZS10 Pro or a new KZ following this path with minor upgrades. (slightly deeper extension at sub-bass would be nicee).


My ZS10 PRO is also my daily driver, and the favorite of all the iems I currently own. While I still enjoy my KPE very much (and I'll never sell them), the 10 PRO is right up there. The TFZ No.3 is still a very distant 3rd imho. Overall, I'm not impressed with the No.3. Yes, it has bass (although I don't think it's as tight or well defined as either the KPE or ZS10 PRO). But the mids and highs are much more relaxed and muted compared to the other 2 sets. That's what's turning me off of the No.3. There's just a lack of detail enthusiasm with that set... everything sounds too dark and laid back. I prefer a more rhythmical pace to the bass, and a more forward midrange and treble. The KPE and ZS10 PRO give me that. TFZ No.3 is going up for sale.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 5, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> I could never get past the chesty and  honky vocals from the ZS10 plus those things were much too large for my ears. They ALWAYS felt like they were slipping out.  I’m glad I was able to return them. There’s a ZS10 PRO if that’s what you’re referring to. Have you been reading this thread? ZS10 PRO is all anyone has been talking about.


I dont mind the vocals of the v1 ZS10 for now. I change iems daily. Isn't that what collecting is about? Actually, using what we buy? Lol.

Someone mentioned that KZ put out a v2 ZS10. I hope they didnt mean Pro because they did say v2 and the Pro is not a v2 of ZS10, it's a PRO ZS10.


----------



## courierdriver

SinisterDev said:


> Same here. I only discovered these awesome, budget IEMs a few weeks ago and I'm so grateful for it. I can already see this turning into a hobby that I can actually afford lol. My first pair was the CCA C10 and now I just picked up the ZS10 Pro and I really love em!


Yup, just get yourself a good source (I'd rec a decent portable dac/amp, if you're using your phone as a music source) or if you have the $, a good DAP. If you can afford to, get something with a balanced 2.5mm or 4.4 and upgrade your cable. Use some high rez/WMA/FLAC files, and your audio experience will be significantly more enjoyable.


----------



## SinisterDev

Yeah, so far I've just been using my Galaxy S10 and Neutron Player (which makes a huge difference from what I've experienced). Neutron is pretty amazing once you get the hang of it. I usually listen to FLACs, recently I purchased a few old Pink Floyd Albums in DSD128 and they sound incredible! I've been thinking of picking up some sort of budget DAC to see what kinda difference in audio fidelity I could expect to experience. Lotta people have suggested I try the ES100 DAC. Overall the music has been sounding pretty great. But I do experience some crackling and some background "hiss" on some albums and I've been wondering if an external DAC would help eliminate those problems.


----------



## courierdriver (Aug 6, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Yeah, so far I've just been using my Galaxy S10 and Neutron Player (which makes a huge difference from what I've experienced). Neutron is pretty amazing once you get the hang of it. I usually listen to FLACs, recently I purchased a few old Pink Floyd Albums in DSD128 and they sound incredible! I've been thinking of picking up some sort of budget DAC to see what kinda difference in audio fidelity I could expect to experience. Lotta people have suggested I try the ES100 DAC. Overall the music has been sounding pretty great. But I do experience some crackling and some background "hiss" on some albums and I've been wondering if an external DAC would help eliminate those problems.


The Radstone ES 100 is an excellent dac/amp from all I've read, and I might get one fairly soon. The crackling you hear is probably a result of your phone being connected to Wifi or your data provider. I experience the same on my S8+, with my Fiio Q1MK2 attached via USB C. The way to get rid of that, is by turning Wifi and data OFF. If you can, put your music on an SD card, which you can install on your phone (I currently have a 32GB card in my S8+, but it's almost full, so I have a 128GB card waiting to be used just for music files). If you use Spotify or Tidal, you can download the albums or songs you like to be used without any type of internet connection. That means you can turn off all data connections and listen to your music, without all that annoying interference.
Edit: Not sure about the ES100's ability to play DSD files...but I know that the Fiio Q1MK2 can. It's about $130, so not cheap, but not too expensive either, when compared to a full on DAP. When you consider that the Q1MK2  has a balanced 2.5 output, great construction, bass boost and gain switches, it's hard to find a DAP that provides all that for such a low cost. Your phone already has a display that is way better than most DAP's (and the UI is much faster than most daps...even the multi-thousand $ ones), so why not make the most of it?


----------



## SinisterDev

Ah i never thought to try turning wifi and data off to see if the crackling would go away! I'll have to give that a try. And yeah I picked up a big ol' 256gb SD that's pretty much dedicated to music, photos and the occasional video I take with my phone. . With how big media files can get these days, I'm honestly considering upgrading to an even larger one at some point lol. If I find a good quality one on sale.


----------



## courierdriver

SinisterDev said:


> Ah i never thought to try turning wifi and data off to see if the crackling would go away! I'll have to give that a try. And yeah I picked up a big ol' 256gb SD that's pretty much dedicated to music, photos and the occasional video I take with my phone. . With how big media files can get these days, I'm honestly considering upgrading to an even larger one at some point lol. If I find a good quality one on sale.


Your 256GB card will definitely store a ton of high rez music! I'd use it for just music, and get another 256 or 400GB for photos and vids. As for the data/wifi thing...ya, it definitely made a huge difference by turning it off. That's where I don't feel like wireless is there yet. Too much noise when compared to a wired connection. Even when I listen to music on my desktop computer, I turn the internet off. It makes a difference in the passing of info to the dac/amp. There's no weird noises cutting into the audio signal. It all results in a quieter, background noise limited, audio experience. At least from my own perspective.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> As for the data/wifi thing...ya, it definitely made a huge difference by turning it off. That's where I don't feel like wireless is there yet. Too much noise when compared to a wired connection. Even when I listen to music on my desktop computer, I turn the internet off. It makes a difference in the passing of info to the dac/amp.


I hope you also do that when you go to sleep.


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## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 6, 2019)

KZ ZS10 has some tuning problems that I noticed today. No wonder no one likes it. 

It left my ears ringing... maybe the ZS10 retuned my  ears!


----------



## SinisterDev

Yeah, I've seen alot of people complain about the original ZS10. I've never listened to a pair of them to compare to the new ZS10 Pro, but I'm really happy with the Pros. I guess they made some significant improvements from the original.


----------



## Nimweth

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ ZS10 has some tuning problems that I noticed today. No wonder no one likes it.
> 
> It left my ears ringing... maybe the ZS10 retuned my  ears!


I had the ZS10 and found it to have a strong but not particularly detailed bass, recessed mids which rose to the border with the treble, where there were some artefacts (probably related to the crossover). Treble was bright with some harsh peaks. Fit was difficult, bulbous body and short nozzles. Gave it away.


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## igorneumann

For anyone wondering about KZ T1 battery life, 4h20m at 50% volume.
Also, the connection is the strongest I ever tried, not a single disconnection.


----------



## baskingshark

igorneumann said:


> For anyone wondering about KZ T1 battery life, 4h20m at 50% volume.
> Also, the connection is the strongest I ever tried, not a single disconnection.



Thanks for taking one for the team to buy and test it!

A few questions:
1) How far is the effective distance for the BT?
2) How would u compare the sound quality to other budget IEMs/KZs?
3) How's the fitting and comfort?

TIA


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ ZS10 has some tuning problems that I noticed today. No wonder no one likes it.



No one?  Don't speak for everyone.



Nimweth said:


> I had the ZS10 and found it to have a strong but not particularly detailed bass, recessed mids which rose to the border with the treble, where there were some artefacts (probably related to the crossover). Treble was bright with some harsh peaks. Fit was difficult, bulbous body and short nozzles. Gave it away.



With my ears, my music, my sources, and Spinfit tips, mine sounds nothing like you are describing   They fit me fine using Spinfits.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

PhonoPhi said:


> Looks cool!
> Hoe do AS12 compare with AS10 and AS16?





xxAMAROKxx said:


> Haven't A10, but AS12 and 16 are about technical ability, Also someone had to tuned their sound for a time ... compact stage, separation, placement ... With these some easily become a treblehead, they are bright. Both need a good cable and some time to get use to that sound.
> The AS12 has lifted frequencies on both ends and less harshy mids. so It could be that AS16 is better for rock /metal .. music, and the AS12 for genres like Pop/EDM...



The AS10 is the most balanced of the three, while not so technically capable. Especially the bass section.
The AS12 and AS16 are both more resolving from bass to highs. They can be compared with $200 and $300 iems or big headphones. They are almost a real top klasse, with only small flaws. 
AS16 is mid-to-lowtreble centric for my ears. AS12 focuses to a higher treble part, which is very detailed and not too forward (it reminds me a TSMR 3 Pro). Also bass is very clear and more audible. Mids are a little warmer and less harshy.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

mbwilson111 said:


> No one?  Don't speak for everyone.
> 
> With my ears, my music, my sources, and Spinfit tips, mine sounds nothing like you are describing   They fit me fine using Spinfits.



I see you are using a silver cable with KZ ZS10. It's very good choice soundwise. Much better than original.


----------



## Mouseman

igorneumann said:


> For anyone wondering about KZ T1 battery life, 4h20m at 50% volume.
> Also, the connection is the strongest I ever tried, not a single disconnection.


Fantastic, thanks for the report. Is 50% a sufficient everyday listening level? If they can make 4 hours, that's great -- I can get to lunchtime and drop them in for a recharge.


----------



## mbwilson111

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I see you are using a silver cable with KZ ZS10. It's very good choice soundwise. Much better than original.



Ah... I did not even think about that.   I am not sure if I notice a difference in sound with cables but then I don't really listen for that.  I just change them for looks or for comfort.  I can't remember now which stock cable came with the ZS10... the older or the newer style.

You are making me want to get them out and use them today but my Semkarch CNT1 has just arrived....  sometimes I hate having so much stuff.  It can be overwhelming for me.


----------



## Nimweth

mbwilson111 said:


> No one?  Don't speak for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> With my ears, my music, my sources, and Spinfit tips, mine sounds nothing like you are describing   They fit me fine using Spinfits.


I suspect it was a fit problem, I tried Spinfits, Spiral Dots, Starlines, Trinity Kombis, everything. They just didn't suit my ears.


----------



## baskingshark

Nimweth said:


> I suspect it was a fit problem, I tried Spinfits, Spiral Dots, Starlines, Trinity Kombis, everything. They just didn't suit my ears.



The original ZS10 shell is super huge I gotta say.
Most of my friends who own it complained about the fit just like you. I think I'm the only one who found it usable with spinfits.


----------



## igorneumann

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for taking one for the team to buy and test it!
> 
> A few questions:
> 1) How far is the effective distance for the BT?
> ...



I just tested the distance, in a room with about 15m (straight line) it worked flawlessly, left the room, closed the door and walked about 5m more before it disconnected, so pretty good.

I didnt made AB tests yet but they arent far away from the KZ hybrid bottom line, You can expect something similar to a ZST (read: the very lower end of hybrid KZ) with a little less bass extension (expected as we are comparing a 6mm with a 10mm dynamic) and a slightly flatter signature (still clearly a "V" shape though).

But take it to a grain of salt as I didnt compared it side by side yet.

Fitting is really good, not as comfy as a ZST/ZSN but pretty close, it stayed all day in my ear (while working, sitted) didnt tried to run with it yet.


----------



## igorneumann

More news on the KZ T1, just tested its Mic with my wife and... Its bad.

You can use it but expect to hear "what?" more than once.


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ ZS10 has some tuning problems that I noticed today. No wonder no one likes it.
> 
> It left my ears ringing... maybe the ZS10 retuned my  ears!



I like the ZS10 quite a bit, specially when Im using it so I dont have to see how ugly it is.

Yes its gigantic but I would take its fitting over the zs5/6/7 anytime. (Not even bringing the ba10 aberration to the game)

That said, I would never buy another one, just because the Pro is so much better.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> Ah... I did not even think about that.   I am not sure if I notice a difference in sound with cables but then I don't really listen for that.  I just change them for looks or for comfort.  I can't remember now which stock cable came with the ZS10... the older or the newer style.
> 
> You are making me want to get them out and use them today but my Semkarch CNT1 has just arrived....  sometimes I hate having so much stuff.  It can be overwhelming for me.



Actually I hear a big difference in the SP cable and the stocker MB, the Sony's started sounding a little too neutral and warm so I've changed out to the Pro's and Holy Top end If you want to hear that detail just go from the Sony's or Shure's to a KZ Z model Congrats on the Semkarch's I need to ping the Hubby and ask what he's thinking about his R2 Aten's


----------



## SoundChoice

Nimweth said:


> I had the ZS10 and found it to have a strong but not particularly detailed bass, recessed mids which rose to the border with the treble, where there were some artefacts (probably related to the crossover). Treble was bright with some harsh peaks. Fit was difficult, bulbous body and short nozzles. Gave it away.



ZS10 (original) is the only one of my 23 million IEMs that doesn't situate in my ear to provide a seal no matter what I did. It's like trying to get last jigsaw puzzle piece to fit and no matter how you turn it or stomp on it that it just won't fit because, well, oops, it's a piece from a different puzzle. It also was my first IEM purchase so I was sure it was me and not the colossal failure of a company that made something designed not for the human ear but one of a rabbit. Glad I then tried another brand and didn't give up since I've learned that IEMs can enhance music enjoyment while decreasing your bank balance.


----------



## igorneumann

Mouseman said:


> Fantastic, thanks for the report. Is 50% a sufficient everyday listening level? If they can make 4 hours, that's great -- I can get to lunchtime and drop them in for a recharge.



Its what Im doing, work with it and charge on lunchtime.

For work thats the volume I use, dunno if you like it louder but dont expect fine control over the volume, very jumpy.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I hope you also do that when you go to sleep.


Uuuummmm...huh? Not following you here, bro.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Uuuummmm...huh? Not following you here, bro.



Maybe he meant turn off the internet?


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe he meant turn off the internet?


Not sure how that has anything to do with my going to sleep. LOL! I sleep fine, whether internet is on or off.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Not sure how that has anything to do with my going to sleep. LOL! I sleep fine, whether internet is on or off.



Some people like to make random comments


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Make sure you get that or it can spiral out of control quick.


----------



## SinisterDev

Hey folks, I need some suggestions for an upgrade or replacement cable for the ZS10 Pro's. I know there's a TON out there. But I have an issue that's kinda narrowed my choice options.
The problem is the case I'm using on my phone. The port cover is kind of restrictive. The jack on the stock cable actually isnt long enough to go through the phone case housing and fully plug into the jack. I took some measurements. The angled jack on the cable that came with my CCA C10 is 30mm long, and 8.6mm wide, and that is long enough to fit. However it's a SUPER tight squeeze. Like so tight that I'm afraid of damaging the jack from repeated use.  Now the jack on the stock ZS10 Pro is 24mm long and 5.5mm wide.  It's too short to plug in through my phone case. 

I really don't wanna change my phone case, because it's really comfortable/protective (and a pricey case).  So I've been looking to see what cables I could possibly pick up that would be a good fit on the ZS10 Pro.  I've seen some really nice upgrade cables, but they don't usually tell you how long/wide the jack is, and it's hard to tell from pictures. So i figured maybe some people on here had some cables they prefer and some calipers or something available to take a quick measurement of the jack dimensions. If anyone's up for the task or has any suggestions I'd really appreciate it!


----------



## Makahl (Aug 6, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Hey folks, I need some suggestions for an upgrade or replacement cable for the ZS10 Pro's. I know there's a TON out there. But I have an issue that's kinda narrowed my choice options.
> The problem is the case I'm using on my phone. The port cover is kind of restrictive. The jack on the stock cable actually isnt long enough to go through the phone case housing and fully plug into the jack. I took some measurements. The angled jack on the cable that came with my CCA C10 is 30mm long, and 8.6mm wide, and that is long enough to fit. However it's a SUPER tight squeeze. Like so tight that I'm afraid of damaging the jack from repeated use.  Now the jack on the stock ZS10 Pro is 24mm long and 5.5mm wide.  It's too short to plug in through my phone case.
> 
> I really don't wanna change my phone case, because it's really comfortable/protective (and a pricey case).  So I've been looking to see what cables I could possibly pick up that would be a good fit on the ZS10 Pro.  I've seen some really nice upgrade cables, but they don't usually tell you how long/wide the jack is, and it's hard to tell from pictures. So i figured maybe some people on here had some cables they prefer and some calipers or something available to take a quick measurement of the jack dimensions. If anyone's up for the task or has any suggestions I'd really appreciate it!



I got a similar dilemma some weeks ago but now using apple's dongle it fixed my issue and I can use all my cables without any problem (also it sounds better than my phone's output). Another option would be Hidizs Sonata II. But I hope some user can help you with some nice cable suggestion.


----------



## SinisterDev

I was considering picking up something like the Sonata, or even just a good 3.5mm extension. But i am hoping that maybe there's a good upgrade cable out there that can fit. Sometimes I like to keep my phone charging while I listen to music, when I know I'm just going to be stationary and relaxing, and I wouldn't have that option with most typical USB C DACs or dongles.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 7, 2019)

The ED16 is in my ears today... It's very nice sounding with grey starlines (v1?). It really does live up to the ZS7 labeled on the body. The treble extension is piercing in a good way for me and the soundstage is very wide and high, 3D like and holographic. A great iem with grey starlines!


----------



## lgcubana

SinisterDev said:


> I was considering picking up something like the Sonata, or even just a good 3.5mm extension. But i am hoping that maybe there's a good upgrade cable out there that can fit. Sometimes I like to keep my phone charging while I listen to music, when I know I'm just going to be stationary and relaxing, and I wouldn't have that option with most typical USB C DACs or dongles.



What phone do you have ?

Can it do Near field charging ?


----------



## Unolord

SinisterDev said:


> I was considering picking up something like the Sonata, or even just a good 3.5mm extension. But i am hoping that maybe there's a good upgrade cable out there that can fit. Sometimes I like to keep my phone charging while I listen to music, when I know I'm just going to be stationary and relaxing, and I wouldn't have that option with most typical USB C DACs or dongles.



I use the Hidizs Sonata with my Xiaomi Mi A1 when listening to podcasts with the ZS10 Pros. Hidizs sent it to me as a bribe after writing a bad but accurate review on Amazon of their AP60ii that died on me within 3 weeks of purchasing. It's actually decent. There's a new version coming.

For music (FLAC from 16-44 up to 24-192) i use the Hidizs Ap80 that I got through their messy Kickstarter campaign spread over two 400gb cards.


----------



## SinisterDev

lgcubana said:


> What phone do you have ?
> 
> Can it do Near field charging ?


I have the Galaxy S10+. I actually did have a wireless charger for it, but it crapped out on me. In the middle of utilizing the warranty to obtain a replacement. I suppose wireless charging is a good option if my USB port was otherwise occupied.


----------



## khighly (Aug 6, 2019)

KZ T1's sound fine on most songs, not much mid bass to be expected but they do have an okay low end and honestly really decent extension - better than I expected. Highs are controlled and extend really well even with bluetooth. Soundstage has this weird cramped feeling at first (maybe from isolation) but do have some depth to them. I wouldn't get these if you want top of the line KZ's, but they're at least as good as the ZSN's. Fit is good and they don't stick out more than the AS10's. They have pretty decent isolation, probably better than all of the KZ's I own except the AS10's. Volume is adequate, maybe a little low. On a song here or there, these aren't so hot with compression such as Incubus - Leech sounding like a dumpster fire with its percussion - especially some hats.

Case is nice, the lid doesn't stay open and I wish that mechanism to hold it open had just a little more friction. Charges way too slow for 800mAh but from China that's probably a lot safer than fast charging. Whatever dweeb thought it would be logical to put the left and right IEM's on the opposite sides should never make that mistake again.

BETA ISSUES: I seem to have a problem with AAC but it could be my equipment. I cannot seem to hold a stable high quality connection compression wise on my laptop (admittedly it's a linux xps13 with open bluetooth codecs, but it works with all other devices fine). It honestly sounds like poor 96Kbps audio (though full 44/48Khz audio) and drops out after a few minutes. Does anyone else have any issues? SBC works at what sounds like a much higher bitrate but doesn't seem nearly as bright as AAC (though SBC is perfectly fine). AAC should be better than SBC. The codecs on these seem wonky and not performing at their highest bitrates like my TRN bluetooth cables or even the KZ aptX cable when it works, but I'd need others to confirm. SBC works fine with good range, and according to Rtings tests, SBC and aptX are nearly identical. _HOWEVER_, even though SBC works fine I do experience time to time side dropouts, the connection between them is not rock solid. They do automatically reconnect, but it's a little annoying. No latency issues that I've noticed, and they connect pretty quickly to my devices. They also pair together quickly.

These hit right at my expectations for $41 first gen and also my first true wireless. I hope at least KZ Official store fix some issues and send their early adopters another pair for free, though these are 8/10 usable right now - for the reason of annoyances in codecs and stability between ears. They also **very clearly** advertised this is a public beta, which I think is fairly responsible. Can't wait to lose one!

Here are some quick rough pics.


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ED16 is in my ears today... It's very nice sounding with grey starlines (v1?). It really does live up to the ZS7 labeled on the body. The treble extension is piercing in a good way for me and the soundstage is very wide and high, 3D like and holographic. A great iem with grey starlines!



The ED16 never soumded right for me, and I could never point the finger on what is wrong, it just sounds weird.


----------



## igorneumann

khighly said:


> KZ T1's sound fine on most songs, not much mid bass to be expected but they do have an okay low end and honestly really decent extension - better than I expected. Highs are controlled and extend really well even with bluetooth. Soundstage has this weird cramped feeling at first (maybe from isolation) but do have some depth to them. I wouldn't get these if you want top of the line KZ's, but they're at least as good as the ZSN's. Fit is good and they don't stick out more than the AS10's. They have pretty decent isolation, probably better than all of the KZ's I own except the AS10's. Volume is adequate, maybe a little low. On a song here or there, these aren't so hot with compression such as Incubus - Leech sounding like a dumpster fire with its percussion - especially some hats.
> 
> Case is nice, the lid doesn't stay open and I wish that mechanism to hold it open had just a little more friction. Charges way too slow for 800mAh but from China that's probably a lot safer than fast charging. Whatever dweeb thought it would be logical to put the left and right IEM's on the opposite sides should never make that mistake again.
> 
> ...



Did you compared with the ZSN side by side?

Because I did said earlier it was as good as the ZST (it impressed me)  just to find out the ZST was so much better making AB.

Does it have AAC?
My cellphone have sbc-hd, it does a pretty decent job, but couldnt detect aac on this iem.


----------



## khighly

igorneumann said:


> Did you compared with the ZSN side by side?
> 
> Because I did said earlier it was as good as the ZST (it impressed me)  just to find out the ZST was so much better making AB.
> 
> ...



I haven't done any side by sides and am still doing battery life tests. I'll update with some thoughts after. I really think they could be better if the codecs were improved.

According to some data I have in bluez/pulseaudio, these are at least trying AAC. They originally connect and very very slowly try really hard to increase their bitrate, it's very noticeable....then they just drop AAC and stop becoming an audio interface until I relink. Again, this issue could be my equipment, but these are advertised as AAC, and I'm confident in bluez/pulseaudio enough that I believe they're at least attempting AAC.


----------



## khighly

The charging of the case is very slow for 800mAh. It's around 3hr and what appears to be 75% I can charge my 15000mAh battery with the same non-quickcharge 2.4A charger in just a little more time.


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 7, 2019)

khighly said:


> I haven't done any side by sides and am still doing battery life tests. I'll update with some thoughts after. I really think they could be better if the codecs were improved.
> 
> According to some data I have in bluez/pulseaudio, these are at least trying AAC. They originally connect and very very slowly try really hard to increase their bitrate, it's very noticeable....then they just drop AAC and stop becoming an audio interface until I relink. Again, this issue could be my equipment, but these are advertised as AAC, and I'm confident in bluez/pulseaudio enough that I believe they're at least attempting AAC.



Will try to force AAC, but I doubt it will make much difference, thats good for Apple devices that already have its music in AAC so it avoids re-converting it with a different codec.
That said, dont expect much difference changing codecs, isnt uncommon to SBC headphones to sound better than APTX ones.

I would say they doesnt sound like their wired counterparts because of the weak amp.

UPDATE: Today it connected using AAC, I changed from SBC to AAC and there is a very very marginal difference, maybe would be more pronounced if my music was already in AAC.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 7, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> The ED16 never soumded right for me, and I could never point the finger on what is wrong, it just sounds weird.


Did you play around with different
tips, cables, dap's etc with the ED16?

I think you may be right in that the ED16 may sound weird but for an occasional listen I think it's great. I do think the bass is a little overwhelming in a bad way tho.

My comments aren't a recommendation for people to buy it.


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Did you play around with different
> tips, cables, dap's etc with the ED16?
> 
> I think you may be right in that the ED16 may sound weird but for an occasional listen I think it's great. I do think the bass is a little overwhelming in a bad way tho.
> ...



Not really, maybe I get back to it to play around, I feel the same with the TRN V10, something odd, cant point exactly what it is.
The ED16 is polarizing, some love it, some don't... For me it looks like a dead end, II dont see how it fits in KZ lineup.


----------



## SenyorC

The ZSN Pro has arrived that I ordered to compare to the ZSN and ZS10 Pro. I won't be rushing to review it as I like to listen to things for a while before I start comparing to others.

Having said that my first impressions, using stock tips (I only use foam tips) and the stock cable, were "where are the mids and why are things so sibilant?"

Anyway, I will leave them playing for a couple of days and then start to listen to them with my usual choice of tips.


----------



## Nimweth

ZS10 Pro: Very impressive! I didn't think the ZS7 would be improved upon but the 10 Pro has wonderful mids and sparkly treble and a huge soundstage, and doesn't give anything away in the bass. Sub-bass has great detail and texture and mid bass doesn't bleed. It is a bold cinematic presentation. Using them with a TRN 16 core silver plated cable and the pre-fitted tips. Vangelis's "Rosetta" sounds amazing. I'm a happy bunny!


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 7, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> Not really, maybe I get back to it to play around, I feel the same with the TRN V10, something odd, cant point exactly what it is.
> The ED16 is polarizing, some love it, some don't... For me it looks like a dead end, II dont see how it fits in KZ lineup.



Did you ever check to make sure that your ED16 was in phase?   I love how mine sounds.. enough to have bought a spare at the time.  I ended up giving the spare to my husband because I took pity on him for not having one... lol.

When I first heard the ZSA it sounded weird and turned out ot be out of phase. It has since been fixed but it is not mine. Belongs to my husband but I was the first to listen to it.  He had left for work right after it arrived and left it with me to try.  I remember thinking "why did he buy this horrible thing?"    I never did listen to it after it was fixed because the fit was not right for me anyway but apparently it is meant to be good.


----------



## baskingshark

Nimweth said:


> ZS10 Pro: Very impressive! I didn't think the ZS7 would be improved upon but the 10 Pro has wonderful mids and sparkly treble and a huge soundstage, and doesn't give anything away in the bass. Sub-bass has great detail and texture and mid bass doesn't bleed. It is a bold cinematic presentation. Using them with a TRN 16 core silver plated cable and the pre-fitted tips. Vangelis's "Rosetta" sounds amazing. I'm a happy bunny!



The stock tips are very adequate, but personally I find spin fits improve the isolation and comfort.


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> The stock tips are very adequate, but personally I find spin fits improve the isolation and comfort.


I only received them yesterday so have not tried other tips yet. They sound so good I didn't  change them!


----------



## darmanastartes

SinisterDev said:


> I was considering picking up something like the Sonata, or even just a good 3.5mm extension. But i am hoping that maybe there's a good upgrade cable out there that can fit. Sometimes I like to keep my phone charging while I listen to music, when I know I'm just going to be stationary and relaxing, and I wouldn't have that option with most typical USB C DACs or dongles.


Hidizs has two new USB-C dongles coming out: 
S1
S3


----------



## lgcubana

Nimweth said:


> ZS10 Pro: Very impressive! I didn't think the ZS7 would be improved upon but the 10 Pro has wonderful mids and sparkly treble and a huge soundstage, and doesn't give anything away in the bass. Sub-bass has great detail and texture and mid bass doesn't bleed. It is a bold cinematic presentation. Using them with a TRN 16 core silver plated cable and the pre-fitted tips. Vangelis's "Rosetta" sounds amazing. I'm a happy bunny!


I have the same aftermarket cable.  Beyond the improved aesthetics, do you really feel that the TRN cable is an audible improvement ?


----------



## CardigdanWalk

Got my KZ T1

First surprise, the nozzle seems smaller than my KZ ZS5. Took of my foams and they are too big for the T1’s. Ended up stuck in my ear 

Second surprise, when I have foam tips, I can’t fit it in the case to charge


----------



## Nimweth

lgcubana said:


> I have the same aftermarket cable.  Beyond the improved aesthetics, do you really feel that the TRN cable is an audible improvement ?


I don't know. I didn't even unpack the stock cable and installed the TRN cable immediately. I have, however, noticed improvements when using upgrade cables in the past.


----------



## khighly

I had the KZ T1's in and saw Tool's new song on Tidal. I thought "this should be ok". Got like 2 minutes in, put them back in the case and got the ZS10 Pro's, restarted the song . Holy moly this song sounds absolutely amazing on the ZS10 Pro's.


----------



## Slater (Aug 7, 2019)

CardigdanWalk said:


> Got my KZ T1
> 
> ...when I have foam tips, I can’t fit it in the case to charge



Perhaps you can do a similar mod to your T1 case as I did to the QCY QS1 case:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...re-we-there-yet.861024/page-494#post-14996945

I can fit any tips I want, no matter the size or type.


----------



## Incel

Anyone not like the new cables on the KZ models? The loop without the metal is much better, but the cable is much noisier. Anyone do a wrap on the new cables?


----------



## archdawg

Incel said:


> Anyone not like the new cables on the KZ models? The loop without the metal is much better, but the cable is much noisier. Anyone do a wrap on the new cables?


After my first experiences with those tangly suckers I just leave them untouched in the box these days and immediately start to experiment with KZ's own upgrade cables or anything from the usual suspects on AE: Kinboofi, Jcally, NiceHCK, HiFiHear, TRN,  Y..y.., (banned), ... YMMV.


----------



## lgcubana

Incel said:


> Anyone not like the new cables on the KZ models? The loop without the metal is much better, but the cable is much noisier. Anyone do a wrap on the new cables?


It would bug me to no end, if I had to reshape them, if I carried them in my pocket; which I do most of the time.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 7, 2019)

lgcubana said:


> It would bug me to no end, if I had to reshape them, if I carried them in my pocket; which I do most of the time.



The ones that I have with the wire are kept in a large enough case that the wire remains undisturbed.

...except when I take them out to use them of course... but then they go back in the case.


----------



## Mybutthurts

I didn't think the ZS10Pro couldn't get any better...it can with a better source.
Absolutely stunning when paired with the Fiio M11. Excellent on all types of music tested so far, but crappy encoded mp3s sound as they should...crappy
Very, very happy with both.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 7, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> ZS10 Pro: Very impressive! I didn't think the ZS7 would be improved upon but the 10 Pro has wonderful mids and sparkly treble and a huge soundstage, and doesn't give anything away in the bass. Sub-bass has great detail and texture and mid bass doesn't bleed. It is a bold cinematic presentation. Using them with a TRN 16 core silver plated cable and the pre-fitted tips. Vangelis's "Rosetta" sounds amazing. I'm a happy bunny!



I disagree, found some time to make some serious A/B comparisons again today because someone was asking for it lately in this thread.

I find it's giving away a lot of sub in fact. It doesn't give away mid bass, and that is even a bit tighter, faster than on the ZS7 I think, however it tends to sound congested on tracks such as Livin' Astro from Kool Keith

.

The mids are suffering from the bass, the ZS7 doesn't have that problem, probably due to open back design vs closed back of ZS10 pro.

Yes the ZS10 pro is sparklier, however it has less high mids. This a disadvantage imo on tracks such as Archspire's murmuration



the guitars sound less awesome and the treble becomes too aggressive for my taste. If I'm looking for absolute details it can be an advantage however (but that's not the IEMs I'd be reaching for in that case).

The ZS7 is also clearly at its advantage on slower heavy guitar tracks such as Gojira's Oroborus



There's just more texture, and a better, fuller tone (to my ears)

The "dark" tuning (doesn't mean dull) of the ZS7 is really something I enjoy for many complex genres that benefit from V-shape tuning without the common associated harshness or slow bass (ZS7 bass/sub keeps up really incredibly well with super fast tracks).

I have not yet compared on other, acoustic genres. I usually use my KB100 or KPE for that anyway, as the ZS7 sounds too "forward" and "in your face" for jazz to me, but I'll do when I have more time, ZS10 might get the edge on strings and horns?

While I much prefer the fit and finition of the ZS10 pro, to me for now it's another good v-shape IEM in an ocean of other good IEMs, while the ZS7 is an IEM I wouldn't want to give away/replace, precisely because of its dark tuning that is so unique. Everything is subject to change as time goes by tho.

The ZS7 fit isn't too great, the finition is sub-par with the 2 parts of the shell not being 100% adjusted and the paint chips tho. Can't have your cake and eat it at 30$ I suppose.


----------



## Nimweth

citral23 said:


> I disagree, found some time to make some serious A/B comparisons again today because someone was asking for it lately in this thread.
> 
> I find it's giving away a lot of sub in fact. It doesn't give away mid bass, and that is even a bit tighter, faster than on the ZS7 I think, however it tends to sound congested on tracks such as Livin' Astro from Kool Keith
> 
> ...



I think that's fair comment. It's early days and they are still burning in. I am lucky in that for me the ZS7 fit is fine, yes, the sub bass, on reflection, is better in the ZS7 and there is that rise in the upper mids. I do like the treble on the ZS7, it is gentle but doesn't lack detail. I still love it for electronic music!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

citral23 said:


> I disagree, found some time to make some serious A/B comparisons again today because someone was asking for it lately in this thread.
> 
> I find it's giving away a lot of sub in fact. It doesn't give away mid bass, and that is even a bit tighter, faster than on the ZS7 I think, however it tends to sound congested on tracks such as Livin' Astro from Kool Keith
> 
> ...



Had to like just because of Kool Keith.


----------



## SenyorC

citral23 said:


> Yes the ZS10 pro is sparklier, however it has less high mids.



I haven't heard the ZS7 but I am beginning to wonder if I got a different ZS10 Pro to others as I feel that the ZS10 Pro had too much high mids 

(Maybe I need a blue one just in case?)


----------



## citral23

Why yes, the blue sounds more liquid than the silver, which sounds much spoonier


----------



## nraymond

citral23 said:


> Why yes, the blue sounds more liquid than the silver, which sounds much spoonier



So silver is the best fit for this song, then?


----------



## SinisterDev

Nimweth said:


> ZS10 Pro: Very impressive! I didn't think the ZS7 would be improved upon but the 10 Pro has wonderful mids and sparkly treble and a huge soundstage, and doesn't give anything away in the bass. Sub-bass has great detail and texture and mid bass doesn't bleed. It is a bold cinematic presentation. Using them with a TRN 16 core silver plated cable and the pre-fitted tips. Vangelis's "Rosetta" sounds amazing. I'm a happy bunny!



Ah nice! How well does the TRN 16 core cable fit onto the ZS10 Pros? I had ordered the same cable originally for my CCA C10's, but since then I got the ZS10 Pro, which I absolutely love. It's still going to be a few weeks before the cable arrives from China.. I wasn't sure if it'd fit on the Pros,but I guess it does?


----------



## Nimweth

SinisterDev said:


> Ah nice! How well does the TRN 16 core cable fit onto the ZS10 Pros? I had ordered the same cable originally for my CCA C10's, but since then I got the ZS10 Pro, which I absolutely love. It's still going to be a few weeks before the cable arrives from China.. I wasn't sure if it'd fit on the Pros,but I guess it does?


It fits very well indeed. It is also very supple and this results in a comfortable wear.


----------



## lgcubana

citral23 said:


> Why yes, the blue sounds more liquid than the silver, which sounds much spoonier


I have the Royal Blue plated and the "black" chrome plated units. I recently did a lot of ABing between them, to test out some cables.  I found no discernible difference between them.


----------



## courierdriver

Mybutthurts said:


> I didn't think the ZS10Pro couldn't get any better...it can with a better source.
> Absolutely stunning when paired with the Fiio M11. Excellent on all types of music tested so far, but crappy encoded mp3s sound as they should...crappy
> Very, very happy with both.


You are very lucky indeed, to have a dap as fine as the M11. Enjoy it! I hope to get one for Christmas. Gift to myself. From all the reviews I've read or watched on YouTube, the M11 is a giant killer. Nice to hear that the ZS10 PRO scales well with higher quality, more powerful sources. It's really a remarkable performer, and proves that good audio doesn't have to cost several hundred or thousands of $$'s.


----------



## courierdriver

citral23 said:


> Why yes, the blue sounds more liquid than the silver, which sounds much spoonier


LMAO! I'm gonna use that descriptor at some point with some audio buddies. SPOONIER! Can't wait to see the puzzled looks on their faces. Best laugh I've had in days! Thanks for that!


----------



## SinisterDev

khighly said:


> I had the KZ T1's in and saw Tool's new song on Tidal. I thought "this should be ok". Got like 2 minutes in, put them back in the case and got the ZS10 Pro's, restarted the song . Holy moly this song sounds absolutely amazing on the ZS10 Pro's.



Awesome! I can't freakin wait to hear Fear Inoculum with the ZS10 Pros! Been much too long since they released new music. I'm glad they finally hopped on the streaming bandwagon too!  But I didn't think they officially released any tracks from the new album yet?  I thought they've only played 2 new songs in live performances? I don't really stream music. But i thought so far they've just released their 5 older albums to streaming.


----------



## SinisterDev

Ok, since some people shared some music to check out with the ZS10 Pro, I felt the need to share this! Not only did it sound superb with them, even for a YouTube video, I feel like the whole song is an incredible listening experience! But fair warning, if you haven't heard Tatiana from Jinjer sing yet, you are in for a real shock!
She's inhumanly talented. The whole band is incredibly talented. Theres a good reason why YouTube is loaded with "First reaction" videos of this song! Enjoy!
I really love how this song sounds on my ZS10 Pro's. It's a really well-recorded live studio session. So there's no post processing effects. It's just raw Jinjer hehe. It has a really nice Soundstage. I wish I could find their albums in some kinda High Res format.


----------



## gourab1995

courierdriver said:


> Not sure how that has anything to do with my going to sleep. LOL! I sleep fine, whether internet is on or off.



I think he meant wifi, and mobile radio signals.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 8, 2019)

The v1 ZS10 has come alive with awesomeness. It just needs a KZ 8 core silver cable and Spinfits (CP145). Wow. This iem has been sitting in a drawer for months... not anymore.

I think the ZS7 should stay in the drawer. It's good but maybe overrated. It's open backed form makes the sound not as tight or clear as other models. It doesnt sound good using public transportation.

*** This ZS10 combination sounds perfect with rock music. Especially older music.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 8, 2019)

While the TRN 16 core cable is ok, it has quite long and straight plugs, I don't find it the best fit for ZS10/ZSN series. It fits nicer on ZS7, bqeyz etc. imo. It's soft and non-sticky, it's ok but not a fan of the colors nor the "carbon fiber" plug (What is wrong with ppl who design this, are they need for speed fanbois?)

Personally I find the KZ upgrade cable incredible for the price, it is extremely close to the KPE cable in shape, feel and colors, without this ugly (imo) middle round thing nor the "carbon" plug. The jack is a little big, only complain. It's really fantastic and nothing beats it for 7-8€ imo https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32944860811.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da26c378Yc2hz

There's the nicehck 8 core that looks nice silver/copper but has even longer plugs than the TRN 16 cores, and I HATE how sticky it feels and never straightens up.

I'm waiting for a **** 8 core to see if it's better hopefully than the nicehck and maybe the TRN


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

citral23 said:


> While the TRN 16 core cable is ok, it has very long and straight plugs, I don't find it the best fit for ZS10/ZSN series. It fits nicer on ZS7, bqeyz etc....


This length of the pins is fine. They fit perfectly, maybe with a spare. Better than short pins that can loose.


----------



## baskingshark

citral23 said:


> While the TRN 16 core cable is ok, it has very long and straight plugs, I don't find it the best fit for ZS10/ZSN series. It fits nicer on ZS7, bqeyz etc. imo. It's soft and non-sticky, it's ok but not a fan of the colors nor the "carbon fiber" plug (What is wrong with ppl who design this, are they need for speed fanbois?)
> 
> Personally I find the KZ upgrade cable incredible for the price, it is extremely close to the KPE cable in shape, feel and colors, without this ugly (imo) middle round thing nor the "carbon" plug. The plug is a little big, only complain. It's really fantastic and nothing beats it for 7-8€ imo https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32944860811.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3da26c378Yc2hz
> 
> ...



Your KZ upgrade cable looks good. Does it come with a chin slider?


----------



## citral23 (Aug 8, 2019)

No chin slider, never use it when there's one anyway.

@xxAMAROKxx : I said the plugs, not the pins. The plugs are very long, and straight, that looks and fits a bit strange on ZS10/ZSN imo. If it's fine for you no problem 

The KZ "B pin" cable has short plugs, and the pins are recessed in a hollowed housing, if you see what I mean. I think it fits ZS10 pro but actually I need to confirm. There's a gold/silver version with "C pin" that has the perfect connector, but I don't have that one https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33009271293.html


----------



## khighly (Aug 8, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Awesome! I can't freakin wait to hear Fear Inoculum with the ZS10 Pros! Been much too long since they released new music. I'm glad they finally hopped on the streaming bandwagon too!  But I didn't think they officially released any tracks from the new album yet?  I thought they've only played 2 new songs in live performances? I don't really stream music. But i thought so far they've just released their 5 older albums to streaming.



They released one song from their new album Aug 7. Do listen to it on good headphones/IEM's. It's a real awesome song.

On a diffent note, I can't really recommend the KZ T1 unless you can handle the occasional 1-3 second right side dropout, and really low bitrates. If I had to guess, its 64-128Kbps audio, nowhere near the full capability of SBC. So much compression that muddies low highs and highs. They're fine and do work relatively decent, but I wouldn't go in expecting any sort of high audio quaility from these. It's like streaming from a shoutcast server in 2006. I think these might actually sound really decent if the bitrate wasn't a mess.


----------



## Mouseman

khighly said:


> They released one song from their new album Aug 7. Do listen to it on good headphones/IEM's. It's a real awesome song.
> 
> On a diffent note, I can't really recommend the KZ T1 unless you can handle the occasional 1-3 second right side dropout, and really low bitrates. If I had to guess, its 64-128Kbps audio, nowhere near the full capability of SBC. So much compression that muddies low highs and highs. They're fine and do work relatively decent, but I wouldn't go in expecting any sort of high audio quaility from these. It's like streaming from a shoutcast server in 2006. I think these might actually sound really decent if the bitrate wasn't a mess.


I might have missed it previously -- what are you using for your source? I'm surprised it's falling back to SBC, that's not a good sign.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mouseman said:


> I might have missed it previously -- what are you using for your source? I'm surprised it's falling back to SBC, that's not a good sign.


I wondered about this when I used them last night. My initial impression was is this aac?  I have an iPhone currently so I have no way to know for sure. But i felt the same about compression and dynamics. They do sound very good and remind me of my other chifi hybrids. They are bright but not piercing. Bass is tight with little bleed. I’m not going to complain about them too much for 40 bucks. They are a fun purchase but probably won’t get a ton of use unless I can solve the volume problem. Overall I would rate the sq on par with Powerbeats pro. Better in some respects and worse in others and different in tonality. For 40 bucks they are worth a flyer but don’t expect to have found your endgame.


----------



## Mouseman

clerkpalmer said:


> I wondered about this when I used them last night. My initial impression was is this aac?  I have an iPhone currently so I have no way to know for sure. But i felt the same about compression and dynamics. They do sound very good and remind me of my other chifi hybrids. They are bright but not piercing. Bass is tight with little bleed. I’m not going to complain about them too much for 40 bucks. They are a fun purchase but probably won’t get a ton of use unless I can solve the volume problem. Overall I would rate the sq on par with Powerbeats pro. Better in some respects and worse in others and different in tonality. For 40 bucks they are worth a flyer but don’t expect to have found your endgame.


Thanks for the info. I also have an iPhone, so I'll have to see how things work for me. I'll try it on some other sources, maybe they might improve the experience. Mine are currently on the slow boat.

That's pretty much what I was thinking, was that if they aren't good, the price isn't so high (thank goodness I didn't pull the trigger on those Klipsch TWS ones) that I can chalk it up to experience. I was also really tired of dealing with the horrible KNZs that I got off KS and the EOZs that I can barely bring myself to use, and I was ready for something new. Hopefully someday soon some company can put together a good all-around package. Otherwise I'm going to have a lot of entries in my BT list that will never get used again, and I feel bad giving someone a pair that is total junk.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Mouseman said:


> Thanks for the info. I also have an iPhone, so I'll have to see how things work for me. I'll try it on some other sources, maybe they might improve the experience. Mine are currently on the slow boat.
> 
> That's pretty much what I was thinking, was that if they aren't good, the price isn't so high (thank goodness I didn't pull the trigger on those Klipsch TWS ones) that I can chalk it up to experience. I was also really tired of dealing with the horrible KNZs that I got off KS and the EOZs that I can barely bring myself to use, and I was ready for something new. Hopefully someday soon some company can put together a good all-around package. Otherwise I'm going to have a lot of entries in my BT list that will never get used again, and I feel bad giving someone a pair that is total junk.


Le me know how your volume works. Mine go from quiet to loud no matter how I try the slider. It’s awful and frankly makes them almost useless to me.


----------



## Podster

So did a recent inventory of just what all KZ's I've been rotating and here's camp KZ today






I'm also sure I have or will have shortly started a flame war over in the Portable Rigs thread since I sad I simply could not in my right mind justify the difference $5,825.00 in this rig:





And Mr.Skydiver's Cayin N8 and his new Layla's This old Tomahak/Shanny M2 combo with the BA10's sound so good it's just unimaginable to me that Cayin Harvey combo could sound >$5500 better but as I told them if you have the means and desire more power to ya


----------



## khighly

Mouseman said:


> I might have missed it previously -- what are you using for your source? I'm surprised it's falling back to SBC, that's not a good sign.


T1 only has AAC and SBC, no aptX. AAC I cannot keep a stable bitrate and eventually it dies, SBC from my laptop and phone works fine, but pretty compressed. 

Does anyone with an iPhone have success using them without bad compression in the highs?


----------



## clerkpalmer

The volume steps render them unusable to me. I’m using an iPhone. Anyone crack this problem or is it hardware?


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> The volume steps render them unusable to me. I’m using an iPhone. Anyone crack this problem or is it hardware?



You aren’t jail broken by any chance, are you?

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/10/14/smallvolumestep/


----------



## SinisterDev

Hey everyone! Maybe you can help me clear up some confusion I'm experiencing in looking for an upgrade cable for my ZS10 Pro.  I keep running into all sorts of conflicting information. Right now I'm opting for picking up a cable off Amazon because I'd like to get one in quickly, since the stock cable with the angled jack can't fit into my phone's port because of a clearance issue with the case I'm using.
Basically I need some tips on how to identify what cables will fit on the ZS10 Pro's.  I know they're 0.75mm and a C type pin. But not all listings of cables mention type A B or C. Only some do.. And then I look through the listings on both Amazon and Aliexpress, claiming that some 0.78mm cables supposedly fit?  Also I keep running into conflicting info. Like some people answer questions on Amazon claiming that they do fit the Pro's, but then other people or the seller comment saying they don't! Argh lol!  It seems that the B type pin cable from my CCA C10's also fit snugly on the ZS10 Pro. So I've been looking at various cables with those types of connectors, but it seems that there are variances in the designs, making some compatible and some not. And a bunch of the ones I've found are unclear as to whether they fit or not. 

I definitely want to make an informed purchase. Something good quality, durable, preferably under $30.


----------



## Slater (Aug 8, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Hey everyone! Maybe you can help me clear up some confusion I'm experiencing in looking for an upgrade cable for my ZS10 Pro.  I keep running into all sorts of conflicting information. Right now I'm opting for picking up a cable off Amazon because I'd like to get one in quickly, since the stock cable with the angled jack can't fit into my phone's port because of a clearance issue with the case I'm using.
> Basically I need some tips on how to identify what cables will fit on the ZS10 Pro's.  I know they're 0.75mm and a C type pin. But not all listings of cables mention type A B or C. Only some do.. And then I look through the listings on both Amazon and Aliexpress, claiming that some 0.78mm cables supposedly fit?  Also I keep running into conflicting info. Like some people answer questions on Amazon claiming that they do fit the Pro's, but then other people or the seller comment saying they don't! Argh lol!  It seems that the B type pin cable from my CCA C10's also fit snugly on the ZS10 Pro. So I've been looking at various cables with those types of connectors, but it seems that there are variances in the designs, making some compatible and some not. And a bunch of the ones I've found are unclear as to whether they fit or not.
> 
> I definitely want to make an informed purchase. Something good quality, durable, preferably under $30.



Here you go friend. Genuine KZ gold plated/silver plated mixed 8-wire braided upgrade cable. Good quality, good sound, and fits perfectly:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RSZL1JD


----------



## SinisterDev (Aug 8, 2019)

Thanks @Slater ! Appreciate it! Now if I can find one with Prime shipping, I'll be as golden as that cable haha!

Woot! Found one! Yay!


----------



## lgcubana

SinisterDev said:


> Hey everyone! Maybe you can help me clear up some confusion I'm experiencing in looking for an upgrade cable for my ZS10 Pro.  I keep running into all sorts of conflicting information. Right now I'm opting for picking up a cable off Amazon because I'd like to get one in quickly, since the stock cable with the angled jack can't fit into my phone's port because of a clearance issue with the case I'm using.
> Basically I need some tips on how to identify what cables will fit on the ZS10 Pro's.  I know they're 0.75mm and a C type pin. But not all listings of cables mention type A B or C. Only some do.. And then I look through the listings on both Amazon and Aliexpress, claiming that some 0.78mm cables supposedly fit?  Also I keep running into conflicting info. Like some people answer questions on Amazon claiming that they do fit the Pro's, but then other people or the seller comment saying they don't! Argh lol!  It seems that the B type pin cable from my CCA C10's also fit snugly on the ZS10 Pro. So I've been looking at various cables with those types of connectors, but it seems that there are variances in the designs, making some compatible and some not. And a bunch of the ones I've found are unclear as to whether they fit or not.
> 
> I definitely want to make an informed purchase. Something good quality, durable, preferably under $30.



I’m getting the Linsoul tomorrow: $27
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SS9S4DQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

On Amazon there’s also an 8 core, silver plated, copper for $18 in copper/brown and $20 for black.  I believe the mft is on this site’s banned listing. I was just using this one today. At this price point, I think it’s more about aesthetics, than sonic improvements.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> You aren’t jail broken by any chance, are you?
> 
> https://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/10/14/smallvolumestep/


Nope


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 8, 2019)

lgcubana said:


> I’m getting the Linsoul tomorrow: $27
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SS9S4DQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> On Amazon there’s also an 8 core, silver plated, copper for $18 in copper/brown and $20 for black.  ...
> At this price point, I think it’s more about aesthetics, than sonic improvements.



More likely, if cables can make any sonic difference, it will be when changing from 0.8 Ohm (and more if with microphone etc) of stock cables to ~0.3 Ohm (or below) of any decent cable. Further improvements should be progressively smaller by the laws of electrical signal transmission and diminished returns.

Though if subjective perceptions rule - different cable colours may matter by the skin effect


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> So did a recent inventory of just what all KZ's I've been rotating and here's camp KZ today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree...if ya got the coin and you're willing to drop it on a MAYBE 20% improvement, then knock yourself out. Otherwise, I'm staying in the "bang for your buck" camp. I like it here.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> I agree...if ya got the coin and you're willing to drop it on a MAYBE 20% improvement, then knock yourself out. Otherwise, I'm staying in the "bang for your buck" camp. I like it here.


I'm not sure what a "bang for your buck camp" is but you have a few "expensive" iems. 

I guess it's not about price, but quality? Isn't that what everyone wants?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> Here you go friend. Genuine KZ gold plated/silver plated mixed 8-wire braided upgrade cable. Good quality, good sound, and fits perfectly:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RSZL1JD


I found a funny review searching for other cables after clicking on your link:

"This cable is definitely an upgrade. If you’re looking for greater sound quality, forget it. Your not gonna get it. That’s not what this is about. The look. The feel. The way it doesn’t kink up and hangs like a nice chain necklace. That’s is what you’re buying. This is why you buy this. You’re wearing those IEM’s in style." 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SS9S4DQ?tag=3340693-headfi-20#customerReviews


----------



## genck

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I found a funny review searching for other cables after clicking on your link:
> 
> "This cable is definitely an upgrade. If you’re looking for greater sound quality, forget it. Your not gonna get it. That’s not what this is about. The look. The feel. The way it doesn’t kink up and hangs like a nice chain necklace. That’s is what you’re buying. This is why you buy this. You’re wearing those IEM’s in style."
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SS9S4DQ?tag=3340693-headfi-20#customerReviews


I actually read this the other day and lol'd


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure what a "bang for your buck camp" is but you have a few "expensive" iems.
> 
> I guess it's not about price, but quality? Isn't that what everyone wants?


Yup...you're correct. For me though, "bang for the buck" is anything under $200 CDN that will get me 90% to the stuff that brands like Campfire, 64 Audio, JA, Shure, etc...are selling for multi-hundreds/thousands...US $$, no less. Most expensive set I bought out of all I own, was Moondrop KPE (one month old set, used) for $145 CDN, which included shipping. Weren't even broken in yet...less than 20 hours on them. TFZ No.3 was second expensive at $137 CDN from Aliexpress, brand new, including shipping. Third...my first set of ZS10 PRO (I bought another set in June to give away to a family member for Christmas, when Aliexpress had a sale) for $49 CDN. Second set was $38 CDN, including shipping. Most recently, bought the Nicehck NX7 for $86 CDN, shipped. On the way, is the RY4S Mmcx Plus earbud (and a SPC mmcx cable) for $28 CDN, shipped. Note that I quote everything in CDN $$'s (since you are also located in Canada...so, I think we can relate). All this gear, and I think I'm still over $600 less than one set of CA Andromeda...a thousand less than Solaris. More than $2000 less than Empire Ears Legend X. I can't justify those TOTL  prices, and it's those kinds of prices that have driven me away from the hobby for years, since I first became a headfi member in 2005. There's alot of great gear that gets people 90% SQ to those TOTL brands, for less than 20% of the cost. And, I get to experiment with different sound sigs. Right now, my least favorite iem, is the TFZ No.3. I'm not giving up on it yet (found the tips I like, and will be cable swapping again soon). If I decide I absolutely can't live with it, I'll sell it at a slight loss. Still, I only paid $137. Not like I dropped $1000+ (or more) on a single iem. If I didn't like something that expensive, or it didn't fit my ears comfortably, I'd be super p***d off, after dropping that kind of money (assuming I could even ever afford to do so). So, I guess "expensive" depends on your definition of what that is. For some people (like me), $200+ for a single piece of gear, is expensive. For others, it might be $50. For others with bigger budgets, maybe $2000. Or more. Honestly, over the past 40 years I've been into audio, I've learned that price don't mean squat. There is alot of extremely overpriced garbage out there. But there's also alot of really awesome sounding stuff too, which doesn't break the bank. Thanks to headfi (and it's members) and YouTube reviewers like BGGAR (who turned me on to all this great Chifi stuff, over the past year), I can finally participate in this audio hobby again.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 9, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Hey everyone! Maybe you can help me clear up some confusion I'm experiencing in looking for an upgrade cable for my ZS10 Pro.  I keep running into all sorts of conflicting information. Right now I'm opting for picking up a cable off Amazon because I'd like to get one in quickly, since the stock cable with the angled jack can't fit into my phone's port because of a clearance issue with the case I'm using.
> Basically I need some tips on how to identify what cables will fit on the ZS10 Pro's.  I know they're 0.75mm and a C type pin. But not all listings of cables mention type A B or C. Only some do.. And then I look through the listings on both Amazon and Aliexpress, claiming that some 0.78mm cables supposedly fit?  Also I keep running into conflicting info. Like some people answer questions on Amazon claiming that they do fit the Pro's, but then other people or the seller comment saying they don't! Argh lol!  It seems that the B type pin cable from my CCA C10's also fit snugly on the ZS10 Pro. So I've been looking at various cables with those types of connectors, but it seems that there are variances in the designs, making some compatible and some not. And a bunch of the ones I've found are unclear as to whether they fit or not.
> 
> I definitely want to make an informed purchase. Something good quality, durable, preferably under $30.



Basically, the ideal connector is angled recessed 0.75mm aka "paragraph C" connector. I've seen it named "QDC" too and reported to work, but I've not tested that QDC myself so cannot vouch 100%.

What I tested is that any other 0.75 or 0.78mm "straight" (not angled) connector will work. But it won't look the best because the female pin is already high above the shell so adding height on top of it looks meh and isn't the best fit on ears imo.







When you say the B style pin fits, does the recessed part plug into the protuding female housing, covering it partly? That's an info I'm looking for.


----------



## SinisterDev (Aug 10, 2019)

Yeah Citral, I took the B style cable off my C10's and put them on the ZS10 Pro's. It's not the prettiest setup, but it does fit on snugly with only a little bit of the female part of the connector exposed. I'll include a picture below.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 9, 2019)

Excellent, looks good enough to me. I'd rather have the KZ upgrade cable in silver/copper with the B pin, than the gold/silver one with C pin then. Time to shop.

Edit : or that one https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33044803515.html. Urgh.


----------



## archdawg

Nimweth said:


> I think that's fair comment. It's early days and they are still burning in. I am lucky in that for me the ZS7 fit is fine, yes, the sub bass, on reflection, is better in the ZS7 and there is that rise in the upper mids. I do like the treble on the ZS7, it is gentle but doesn't lack detail. I still love it for electronic music!





courierdriver said:


> There's alot of great gear that gets people 90% SQ to those TOTL brands, for less than 20% of the cost.


Or even less. No other IEM has ever won me over like the ZS7, not even some higher end phones that cost me xy times as much. The 7 are neither the most natural sounding, balanced or analytical phones in my stash but they sure get my body moving to those vibes and get far more playtime than any of my other IEMs.

Next stop: something that beats the 7 in the groove department; maybe the 7 with all their BAs upgraded to their Knowles counterparts, something I mentioned some days ago, the ZS7X or K or whatever. I already had some Knowles 30095 flying around but now ordered the remaining BAs I need for the transplant. Once I'm at it I might as well remove the DDs in order to drill 1.6mm holes right next to the ~0.3mm vent ports and cut 2mm threads for a set of custom made screws which allow me to precisely adjust the effective diameter (airflow) of those ports - just think of tiny bass dials. Another little thing would be to move the circuit board away from the backside of the DD ... who on earth put them there of all places?
Dunno when I'll find the time for the job but I sure can't wait to compare the end result to the spare ZS7 I ordered last week.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 9, 2019)

khighly said:


> On a diffent note, I can't really recommend the KZ T1 unless you can handle the occasional 1-3 second right side dropout, and really low bitrates. If I had to guess, its 64-128Kbps audio, nowhere near the full capability of SBC. So much compression that muddies low highs and highs. They're fine and do work relatively decent, but I wouldn't go in expecting any sort of high audio quaility from these. It's like streaming from a shoutcast server in 2006. I think these might actually sound really decent if the bitrate wasn't a mess.



Might there be an issue with your source? As I cannot corroborate those observations at all! So far I have been experiencing a rock steady connection with zero drops. And in terms of SQ those are possibly one of my best sounding TWE I own, lots of detail and clarity ...
Not claiming I can 'hear' or 'sense' bitrates, but I am overall very impressed with the T1 ... and I have heard others saying the same thing.

What's the color of the logo on yours? Silver or gold? I am starting to wonder if there are some early versions in silver out there (you see them in youtube reviews) and I wonder if that might have anything to do with divisive opinions.

(I am also not getting the volume step problem that others are complaining about ... yes, when triple clicking on the bud it seems the steps are too big, but when regulating on iPhone, no problem)


----------



## Tamirci (Aug 9, 2019)

*

 

Ask me anything you like about Kz As16

  *


----------



## Zerohour88

finally pics of the Terminator, now named ZSX

seems like the qdc 2pin is here to stay


----------



## Dcell7

Deleted, someone was a bit quicker


----------



## Nimweth

archdawg said:


> Or even less. No other IEM has ever won me over like the ZS7, not even some higher end phones that cost me xy times as much. The 7 are neither the most natural sounding, balanced or analytical phones in my stash but they sure get my body moving to those vibes and get far more playtime than any of my other IEMs.
> 
> Next stop: something that beats the 7 in the groove department; maybe the 7 with all their BAs upgraded to their Knowles counterparts, something I mentioned some days ago, the ZS7X or K or whatever. I already had some Knowles 30095 flying around but now ordered the remaining BAs I need for the transplant. Once I'm at it I might as well remove the DDs in order to drill 1.6mm holes right next to the ~0.3mm vent ports and cut 2mm threads for a set of custom made screws which allow me to precisely adjust the effective diameter (airflow) of those ports - just think of tiny bass dials. Another little thing would be to move the circuit board away from the backside of the DD ... who on earth put them there of all places?
> Dunno when I'll find the time for the job but I sure can't wait to compare the end result to the spare ZS7 I ordered last week.


After a three-hour session today with the ZS10 Pro, I think you are right. Both the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 have a "fun" tuning but the ZS7 has a magic about it. Maybe it's the vented earpieces giving a more attractive soundstage, the softer but still detailed treble or the 31005 BA's midrange character, this is also used in the ****. Whatever, I, like you, find myself reaching for the ZS7 more often than other IEMs. That sub-bass!!


----------



## Podster (Aug 9, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> finally pics of the Terminator, now named ZSX
> 
> seems like the qdc 2pin is here to stay



Damn, and here I thought I was through buying KZ's Love this shell (Faceplates) so much more than my Chrome ZS10 Pro's Right now though this is absolutely my fave KZ and (Tripowin) cable Gonna order it in balanced now to replace the old KZ SP cable This setup is a solid $61 budget rig (my cost as I think its a little closer to $89 now but still worthy) and what I'm suggesting to friends who just want a nice music setup


----------



## citral23 (Aug 9, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> After a three-hour session today with the ZS10 Pro, I think you are right. Both the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 have a "fun" tuning but the ZS7 has a magic about it. Maybe it's the vented earpieces giving a more attractive soundstage, the softer but still detailed treble or the 31005 BA's midrange character, this is also used in the ****. Whatever, I, like you, find myself reaching for the ZS7 more often than other IEMs. That sub-bass!!



You're not alone, ZS7 is the only IEM I've tested so far that gives me the feeling of being in front of a big sound system and wanting to dance or being like "oh god that's gorgeous" listening to dath metal guitar textures lol. It's certainly not neutral but man, it's so much fun! And without being very tiring honestly. Much less than ZS10 pro / ZSN etc. for me. I need to buy a spare, too. It's "the different" one, in a positive way for me, the rest doesn't stand out so much.


----------



## clerkpalmer

citral23 said:


> You're not alone, ZS7 is the only IEM I've tested so far that gives me the feeling of being in front of a big sound system and wanting to dance or being like "oh god that's gorgeous" listening to dath metal guitar textures lol. It's certainly not neutral but man, it's so much fun! And without being very tiring honestly. Much less than ZS10 pro / ZSN etc. for me. I need to buy a spare, too. It's "the different" one, in a positive way for me, the rest doesn't stand out so much.


 You guys have me interested in these.  Question, I have a .78 BT20, will these connect to that or is it too large?  Thanks.


----------



## archdawg (Aug 9, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> After a three-hour session today with the ZS10 Pro, I think you are right. Both the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 have a "fun" tuning but the ZS7 has a magic about it. Maybe it's the vented earpieces giving a more attractive soundstage, the softer but still detailed treble or the 31005 BA's midrange character, this is also used in the ****. Whatever, I, like you, find myself reaching for the ZS7 more often than other IEMs. That sub-bass!!


That fast, dry bad-@ss (sub-)bass and the speed/coherence of the 7 vs. the 10Pro, pretty obvious with fast bass and other transients like in this little tune below (and pretty much the rest of that album) - huge differences in spatial reproduction as well. Just a couple months with the 7 and they basically spoiled me for anything slower, less deep and less coherent - YMMV.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> You guys have me interested in these.  Question, I have a .78 BT20, will these connect to that or is it too large?  Thanks.



https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/aj0lot/combo_review_trn_bt20_and_kz_zs7/


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> seems like the qdc 2pin is here to stay



Well, that's unfortunate. KZ needs to fix the problem with the crumbling sockets before they start pumping out more models with a potentially faulty plug design.


----------



## Makahl

Zerohour88 said:


> finally pics of the Terminator, now named ZSX
> 
> seems like the qdc 2pin is here to stay



I can't wait to see more details about it. KZ is always improving their DD in the new releases and I hope it'll the case here too. A ZS10 Pro with another BA would be meh for my taste.


----------



## lucasbrea

Makahl said:


> I can't wait to see more details about it. KZ is always improving their DD in the new releases and I hope it'll the case here too. A ZS10 Pro with another BA would be meh for my taste.


Yes, I think que sound quality would be very similar to zs10 pro unless they use improved or different drivers


----------



## archdawg

Slater said:


> Well, that's unfortunate. KZ needs to fix the problem with the crumbling sockets before they start pumping out more models with a potentially faulty plug design.


+1 
... or move back to the good ol' slightly recessed standard connectors they've used before on the ZS6, 7, ... and offer cables with angled jacks instead of messing around with the female connectors/sockets on the earpiece side. This way anyone can still use pretty much any (cheap) standard cable with decent 2-pin 0.75mm (metal) connectors without having to deal with this protruding piece of plastic junk.


----------



## Slater

archdawg said:


> ... or move back to the good ol' slightly recessed standard connectors they've used before on the ZS6, 7, ... and offer cables with angled jacks instead of messing around with the female connectors/sockets on the earpiece side. This way anyone can still use pretty much any (cheap) standard cable with decent 2-pin 0.75mm (metal) connectors without having to deal with this protruding piece of plastic junk.



Totally agree. The old connector was bullet proof and had zero problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


----------



## lgcubana

Podster said:


> Damn, and here I thought I was through buying KZ's Love this shell (Faceplates) so much more than my Chrome ZS10 Pro's Right now though this is absolutely my fave KZ and (Tripowin) cable Gonna order it in balanced now to replace the old KZ SP cable This setup is a solid $61 budget rig (my cost as I think its a little closer to $89 now but still worthy) and what I'm suggesting to friends who just want a nice music setup


Before I spend more money.  The reviews that I've read (on the ZS7) share the impression that there is a sparkle/brightness on the top end that can be fatiguing; is this contrary to your experience ?


----------



## Podster

Not top start a flame war with my fellow KZ'ers but all (since the beginning) KZ's have a tendency to be a little bright on the top end and there are tweaks/mods as well as EQ but IMHO any KZ can light you up especially when over driven. I mean without some kind of intervention. Mind you the newer models are improving and my BA10's rarely sizzle even at volume

Now for everyone to dispel the myth


----------



## PhonoPhi

Podster said:


> Not top start a flame war with my fellow KZ'ers but all (since the beginning) KZ's have a tendency to be a little bright on the top end and there are tweaks/mods as well as EQ but IMHO any KZ can light you up especially when over driven. I mean without some kind of intervention. Mind you the newer models are improving and my BA10's rarely sizzle even at volume
> 
> Now for everyone to dispel the myth



AS10 are quite warm ("dark" in some ways/perception/language) but not loosing resolution, definitely a touch "darker" than BA10.
Then good "old ZS10" are a reference point how "dark" KZ could go.

I do enjoy my CCA C16 and A10 (as well as AS10) now and finally ordered KZ AS12 to embrace all new highs


----------



## khighly

Caipirina said:


> Might there be an issue with your source? As I cannot corroborate those observations at all! So far I have been experiencing a rock steady connection with zero drops. And in terms of SQ those are possibly one of my best sounding TWE I own, lots of detail and clarity ...
> Not claiming I can 'hear' or 'sense' bitrates, but I am overall very impressed with the T1 ... and I have heard others saying the same thing.
> 
> What's the color of the logo on yours? Silver or gold? I am starting to wonder if there are some early versions in silver out there (you see them in youtube reviews) and I wonder if that might have anything to do with divisive opinions.
> ...



Mine is the gold version. My source has been Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite, Google Pixel XL, and my Dell XPS 13. All work flawlessly with ATH-M50xBT, TRN headsets, the KZ aptX and aptX HD cables.

They could definitely sound good if there wasnt so much compression on the highs. Their transmit distance, like other KZ BT products is poor. Maybe I just have too high expectations for TWS.


----------



## B9Scrambler

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 are quite warm ("dark" in some ways/perception/language) but not loosing resolution, definitely a touch "darker" than BA10.
> *Then good "old ZS10" are a reference point how "dark" KZ could go.*
> 
> I do enjoy my CCA C16 and A10 (as well as AS10) now and finally ordered KZ AS12 to embrace all new highs



Yet there are still lots of complaints about it being too bright. Go figure...


----------



## PhonoPhi

B9Scrambler said:


> Yet there are still lots of complaints about it being too bright. Go figure...


That is where those spectral graphs can be useful to have a good idea.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

B9Scrambler said:


> Yet there are still lots of complaints about it being too bright. Go figure...


I always just chalked that up to poor fit due to its monsterous size. Poor fit=loss of low end=3k peak blasting you with full force. I think the 3k peak confuses people as the treble rolls off hard after it. It really is the definition of "dark treble" to me which is where the mid treble and high treble ranges fall below the bass frequencies.


----------



## Incel

Slater said:


> Totally agree. The old connector was bullet proof and had zero problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


To everyone who says that the recessed ones were fine, they were not for me. The headphones start falling out and drop. This new method is much more secure. The new one has much more friction, and its much more sturdy. I have had ED12 now that I replaced the cable a few times, the connector port broke the case so they aren't even designed to be replaced more than maybe once or twice. I had 3 ZS3 that kept falling off too. This was a terrible flaw, didn't happen with my ZS5 though so maybe it was some bad ones. The stock cables they come with are of poor quality too, so in effect you have to offload the cost of the cables to the IEM. The old ones got sticky, the new ones are very noisy and tangle easily. You can get different ones that have decent stock cables at that point with better sound. The ATR is still their best to me because it sounds better than stock headphones, but KZ always swaps the drivers so I don't know what my ATR was like compared to the new one now.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> Yet there are still lots of complaints about it being too bright. Go figure...



Right! Of course you know I’m not treble sensitive at all so none have ever effected me as some. I love my ZST’s and ZS6’s but I can tell a major diff in them and my ZS10 Pro’s and for sure the BA10. Waiting to hear your take on the ZSX


----------



## B9Scrambler

Podster said:


> Right! Of course you know I’m not treble sensitive at all so none have ever effected me as some. I love my ZST’s and ZS6’s but I can tell a major diff in them and my ZS10 Pro’s and for sure the BA10. *Waiting to hear your take on the ZSX*



You'll be waiting a long time. Not buying any more KZs until they do something different. Or go back to cheap, single dynamics. I fully expect the ZSX to sound like yet another tweak on the same formula they've used since they started implementing BAs.


----------



## Makahl

I think ZS3 was a hard task for KZ at that time, a bunch of issues. I also got a pair with a faulty loose socket, hopefully, long pins like the cheap TRN cable works fine, but the stock KZ cables is impossible to make it work. 


 

So far my ZS10 Pro connector still ok. Most reports of the C-type faulty ones (3-4 cases here?) are coming from ZSN so might it's a QC thing for this particular model.


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


>



What are all you people doing to your poor KZs? 

I guess I baby my KZs too much then. Mine are always cleaned off and rolled up and stored snug in their storage cases, etc. Maybe that's why none of my sockets have fallen apart - I need to start slappin' em around! Child abuse!!

haha


----------



## Nailzs

Tamirci said:


> *
> 
> Ask me anything you like about Kz As16
> 
> *




I was starting to think I was the only person that liked the AS16.


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> What are all you people doing to your poor KZs?
> 
> I guess I baby my KZs too much then. Mine are always cleaned off and rolled up and stored snug in their storage cases, etc. Maybe that's why none of my sockets have fallen apart - I need to start slappin' em around! Child abuse!!
> 
> haha


Lol, but I've received it already like that. All my KZs are fine, though. ZS3 was a bit problematic (driver dying on me, crocked tube, faulty socket) but... I still enjoy it for electronic music.


----------



## Podster

B9Scrambler said:


> You'll be waiting a long time. Not buying any more KZs until they do something different. Or go back to cheap, single dynamics. I fully expect the ZSX to sound like yet another tweak on the same formula they've used since they started implementing BAs.



Now see my brother at this point I figure KZ has already discovered the are just re-hashing the 4-5 BA single DD format and the ZSX will be a different design and signature altogether however I have been off with them before I think the ZSX will be their next step in their multi BA single DD progression. I may be wrong but I think they are making the next step


----------



## courierdriver

Nimweth said:


> After a three-hour session today with the ZS10 Pro, I think you are right. Both the ZS10 Pro and ZS7 have a "fun" tuning but the ZS7 has a magic about it. Maybe it's the vented earpieces giving a more attractive soundstage, the softer but still detailed treble or the 31005 BA's midrange character, this is also used in the ****. Whatever, I, like you, find myself reaching for the ZS7 more often than other IEMs. That sub-bass!!


Man, the last thing I need is another set of iems...but everyone keeps praising the ZS7 so much, I almost feel like I need these suckers in my collection. Love the fact that I can use pretty much any 2 pin I currently own or may buy in the future, but I'm in doubt and leary of the reported large size of those shells. ZS10 PRO fits me great, so does the new Nicehck NX7, which seems even smaller. Moondrop KPE is also great. All fairly small iems, that insert quite deep into my ears. I'm still not sure I could handle the comfort issue with the large size shells of the ZS7.


----------



## gourab1995

courierdriver said:


> Man, the last thing I need is another set of iems...but everyone keeps praising the ZS7 so much, I almost feel like I need these suckers in my collection. Love the fact that I can use pretty much any 2 pin I currently own or may buy in the future, but I'm in doubt and leary of the reported large size of those shells. ZS10 PRO fits me great, so does the new Nicehck NX7, which seems even smaller. Moondrop KPE is also great. All fairly small iems, that insert quite deep into my ears. I'm still not sure I could handle the comfort issue with the large size shells of the ZS7.



Despite the large shells comfort is not an issue to me. I even go to sleep with them on. But that's me. Normal usage should be completely pleasant for most people.


----------



## courierdriver

archdawg said:


> +1
> ... or move back to the good ol' slightly recessed standard connectors they've used before on the ZS6, 7, ... and offer cables with angled jacks instead of messing around with the female connectors/sockets on the earpiece side. This way anyone can still use pretty much any (cheap) standard cable with decent 2-pin 0.75mm (metal) connectors without having to deal with this protruding piece of plastic junk.


+2. Yeah, I'm not a fan of those protruding connectors either. It's a bitch to find cables that fit properly and securely. I hate being limited to my cable choices, just because of a weird form factor. I haven't experienced any problems with my JCally balanced cable, but then again, I'm not the type to constantly swap out cables. It is kinda disconcerting though, to see photos and read posts about how these things break so easily. I think a more traditional 2 pin design would be a much better solution.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Totally agree. The old connector was bullet proof and had zero problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


My sentiments EXACTLY!


----------



## voicemaster (Aug 9, 2019)

Just got my trn bt20s and I am loving the improvement on an already good item. No AptX -> AptX now (no AptX HD but AptX is definitely good enough for portable use), 6 hours battery -> 8 hours now, mushy button -> clicky button (button feels stronger and raised a little bit more than the previous model) and a weak charging jack port -> more robust charging jack port. Nothing more to say about this awesome bluetooth adapter. I think KZ, TRN, CCA and IEMs with detachable cable lover need to have at least one Trn Bt20s in their arsenal. I am using this with my ZS10 pro and they works great together. Oh and no lag that I noticed so far. Youtube works fine with previous and new model, but when playing video through vlc on my phone, the old bt20 definitely has a delay while the new bt20s doesn't.


----------



## clerkpalmer

You guys talked me into a ZS7 today. I don’t even like iems. I’m gonna try them with my Bt10 for starters. If I like them, Bt20s will be ordered. Going to see if they beat my true wireless headsets of which I have tried many.


----------



## courierdriver

clerkpalmer said:


> You guys talked me into a ZS7 today. I don’t even like iems. I’m gonna try them with my Bt10 for starters. If I like them, Bt20s will be ordered. Going to see if they beat my true wireless headsets of which I have tried many.


Lmao! You sound just like I did about a year ago. I had bought a TOTL iem back in 2005...and HATED it! Spent $500, and thought it sounded like crap. I swore I'd never buy another ever again in my life. But these things have become so much better in the past 14 years, that I'm getting addicted and have bought 5 over the past 6 months. I'm also wanting to pull the plug on the ZS7. Maybe next month. Only thing holding me back is how big the shells are. Just not sure if they will fit my smaller ears well. But I'm intrigued by the bass performance and soundstage. Being a headfi member can be a huge pain in the wallet!


----------



## clerkpalmer

courierdriver said:


> Lmao! You sound just like I did about a year ago. I had bought a TOTL iem back in 2005...and HATED it! Spent $500, and thought it sounded like crap. I swore I'd never buy another ever again in my life. But these things have become so much better in the past 14 years, that I'm getting addicted and have bought 5 over the past 6 months. I'm also wanting to pull the plug on the ZS7. Maybe next month. Only thing holding me back is how big the shells are. Just not sure if they will fit my smaller ears well. But I'm intrigued by the bass performance and soundstage. Being a headfi member can be a huge pain in the wallet!



Only iem to date that has come close to cans for me is the xelento. But they cost a fortune and have serious driver flex issues. I’ve tried almost every high end true wireless and only mw07 has offered sq that i consider excellent. Hoping this setup can give me a great sq solution for the gym. And yes, headfi is expensive. But it’s nothing compared to the guys on watchuseek.com.


----------



## froidy

Hi all, I just got a set of ZS10 Pro based on good reviews here and love them! Have been lurking and reading a heap of pages in this thread so thanks for all the advice and input 
The large stock tips fit me reasonably well and give a decent seal but I am thinking about getting some new tips. Would the Spinfit CP145 fit? I'm either looking at those or some Comply Isolation/Comfort 500 tips.
Thanks!


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> Lmao! You sound just like I did about a year ago. I had bought a TOTL iem back in 2005...and HATED it! Spent $500, and thought it sounded like crap. I swore I'd never buy another ever again in my life. But these things have become so much better in the past 14 years, that I'm getting addicted and have bought 5 over the past 6 months. I'm also wanting to pull the plug on the ZS7. Maybe next month. Only thing holding me back is how big the shells are. Just not sure if they will fit my smaller ears well. But I'm intrigued by the bass performance and soundstage. Being a headfi member can be a huge pain in the wallet!



Bro, I bought JHaudio roxanne ($1400) and that thing is sibilance monster and it hurt my ear within 30 minutes of using because the damn nozzle is just too big. My ear hole can only stretch so much. Then come 1964audio with its "budget" offerings ($500 - $900) for their universal IEMs which I love back then, but they also starting to get way too expensive now.


----------



## voicemaster

froidy said:


> Hi all, I just got a set of ZS10 Pro based on good reviews here and love them! Have been lurking and reading a heap of pages in this thread so thanks for all the advice and input
> The large stock tips fit me reasonably well and give a decent seal but I am thinking about getting some new tips. Would the Spinfit CP145 fit? I'm either looking at those or some Comply Isolation/Comfort 500 tips.
> Thanks!



Comply is good. Try newbee comply too if you want a cheaper option.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 10, 2019)

froidy said:


> Hi all, I just got a set of ZS10 Pro based on good reviews here and love them! Have been lurking and reading a heap of pages in this thread so thanks for all the advice and input
> The large stock tips fit me reasonably well and give a decent seal but I am thinking about getting some new tips. Would the Spinfit CP145 fit? I'm either looking at those or some Comply Isolation/Comfort 500 tips.
> Thanks!



I don't use foam tips but spinfit CP100 fits the KZ ZS10 pro for me well. Provides more comfort and isolation than stock tips, YMMV.
Not sure about CP145, don't have any on hand.


----------



## Caipirina

khighly said:


> Mine is the gold version. My source has been Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite, Google Pixel XL, and my Dell XPS 13. All work flawlessly with ATH-M50xBT, TRN headsets, the KZ aptX and aptX HD cables.
> 
> They could definitely sound good if there wasnt so much compression on the highs. Their transmit distance, like other KZ BT products is poor. Maybe I just have too high expectations for TWS.



I blame it on my old ears that I cannot hear any compression ... few years ago I did a test and could very well hear the difference between 320 and 128 mp3s .. I am obviously deteriorating ... maybe a blessing in disguise?


----------



## SinisterDev (Aug 10, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Yeah Citral, I took the B style cable off my C10's and put them on the ZS10 Pro's. It's not the prettiest setup, but it does fit on snugly with only a little bit of the female part of the connector exposed. I'll include a picture below.
> 
> 
> Hrrm, I cant for the life of me, get my picture to show up in my original post lol!  It shows up in the privew and I attach it. Save it. Then nothing?


----------



## courierdriver

clerkpalmer said:


> Only iem to date that has come close to cans for me is the xelento. But they cost a fortune and have serious driver flex issues. I’ve tried almost every high end true wireless and only mw07 has offered sq that i consider excellent. Hoping this setup can give me a great sq solution for the gym. And yes, headfi is expensive. But it’s nothing compared to the guys on watchuseek.com.


Iems are a totally different animal, compared to over ear headphones. There's lots to be said for headphones; better stage, openness, bass definition, etc. For me though, the best of the best, are too heavy and make my ears sweat. My HE4XX weigh a ton, and I wanna take them off after 20 or 30 minutes because my ears start to get too hot. I'm ready to sell them. Only over ear cans I have (and will keep) are my Takstar Pro82. They sound great, and are very lightweight. I can wear them for hours. Of my current crop of iems, they all sound a bit different, and I can't decide which ones I like better. It depends on the type/genre of music I'm listening to at the time. That's what's so great about them. If you look at it in terms of over ear headphones or even speakers, you have to spend hundreds or thousands....and even if you do, there's no guarantee that they will sound great no matter what kind of music you throw at them. That's why I like iems...you can get them cheap enough, so you can experiment with different sound signatures. You're not investing thousands in a set of headphones or speakers that can only do one or two genres great, but everything else sounds like crap. We are in an age now, with iems, that we can afford to buy multiple sets to experiment with, depending on genres. I like to listen to all types of music, so in my experience, I've never found a single transducer that works awesome with all music. That's why it's great to have so many great affordable choices, nowadays. People DON'T have to spend several hundreds or thousands on great sounding gear. These newer iems are letting people get many different sets, for less than a single set of TOTL iems...which may sound outstanding with 1 or 2 genres, but don't cut it with others. Less expensive iems that are tuned well for certain types of music, make it easier to get a great sound with whatever types of music you feel like listening to at any given moment. That's why I love this iem/personal audio hobby. You don't have to be tied down to one specific set, because there's enough affordable stuff out there that you can own more than one set. Try doing that with a speaker based system for example. You will quickly end up in bankruptcy.


----------



## SinisterDev

Ah, y'all are killing me haha. Now I wanna check out the ZS7, but honestly that ZSX is looking gorgeous! I wonder how they'll sound...? Might have to wait for those to come out and pick up a pair. I'll have to see how the community feels about em. Lol my collection is slowly growing, and I think my obsession might be too lol.. Just a little...


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> Bro, I bought JHaudio roxanne ($1400) and that thing is sibilance monster and it hurt my ear within 30 minutes of using because the damn nozzle is just too big. My ear hole can only stretch so much. Then come 1964audio with its "budget" offerings ($500 - $900) for their universal IEMs which I love back then, but they also starting to get way too expensive now.


Wow...that's so much coin, for a set that doesn't live up to your expectations and that you can't even enjoy for a long period of time. That really sucks! It's why I've set a budget for myself. I couldn't even imagine how I'd feel if I dropped a grand or more on a set, and then didn't like them.


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> Comply is good. Try newbee comply too if you want a cheaper option.


+1 I like the Newbee's best for most of my iems. They are soft and comfortable. The Complys feel rough and scratchy in comparison. The Newbee also has a wider bore, so the mids and treble sound intact, but provide a good seal for deep bass. The Complys sound bass heavy, and mids and treble muffled.


----------



## courierdriver

SinisterDev said:


> Ah, y'all are killing me haha. Now I wanna check out the ZS7, but honestly that ZSX is looking gorgeous! I wonder how they'll sound...? Might have to wait for those to come out and pick up a pair. I'll have to see how the community feels about em. Lol my collection is slowly growing, and I think my obsession might be too lol.. Just a little...


As many of us here are fond of saying: "Welcome to headfi...sorry about your wallet!"


----------



## Tamirci

Nailzs said:


> I was starting to think I was the only person that liked the AS16.



No no no  I think with a bit of work it will shine amongst others! I'll be posting the final status of my as16 in 2 weeks.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> As many of us here are fond of saying: "Welcome to headfi...sorry about your wallet!"


Who orders iems with their wallets? The Chinese?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 10, 2019)

Podster said:


> I love my ZST’s and ZS6’s but I can tell a major diff in them and my ZS10 Pro’s and for sure the BA10.


How does the ZS10 Pro stack up against the BA10? Is the later still worthy of purchase?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> Being a headfi member can be a huge pain in the wallet!


I thought you were going to say: "a huge pain in the ass" but I guess you dont put your wallet in your back pocket.


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> Man, the last thing I need is another set of iems...but everyone keeps praising the ZS7 so much, I almost feel like I need these suckers in my collection. Love the fact that I can use pretty much any 2 pin I currently own or may buy in the future, but I'm in doubt and leary of the reported large size of those shells. ZS10 PRO fits me great, so does the new Nicehck NX7, which seems even smaller. Moondrop KPE is also great. All fairly small iems, that insert quite deep into my ears. I'm still not sure I could handle the comfort issue with the large size shells of the ZS7.


I don't have a problem with fit on the ZS7. I do have large ear canals but there is little difference for me between the ZS7 and the ZS10 Pro in fit. I use Spiral Dots on the ZS7 which provide good comfort and sound.


----------



## citral23

The ZS7 are not big, don't obsess over it. They look bigger in picture than irl.

The ZS10 pro is more comfortable to me, but the ZS7 is fine, it's not a BA10. It's an iem I use to get a kick anyway, 1/2 hours at most. 

I wouldn't want to have only that one, but I would truly hate not to have it, if that makes sense.

I think it's the best actual value at that price,  and I've not been shilling (quite the opposite) any other KZ products


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> +1 I like the Newbee's best for most of my iems. They are soft and comfortable. The Complys feel rough and scratchy in comparison. The Newbee also has a wider bore, so the mids and treble sound intact, but provide a good seal for deep bass. The Complys sound bass heavy, and mids and treble muffled.



I've been stocking up on the Blue, Tin Audio tips, they sit a little deeper and even though they only come in one size, my asymmetrical ear canals both get a good seal.  Here's a comparison to the New Bees, large


----------



## baskingshark

Nimweth said:


> I don't have a problem with fit on the ZS7. I do have large ear canals but there is little difference for me between the ZS7 and the ZS10 Pro in fit. I use Spiral Dots on the ZS7 which provide good comfort and sound.



Is the ZS7 shell the same size as the ZS6?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 are quite warm ("dark" in some ways/perception/language) but not loosing resolution, definitely a touch "darker" than BA10.
> Then good "old ZS10" are a reference point how "dark" KZ could go.
> 
> I do enjoy my CCA C16 and A10 (as well as AS10) now and finally ordered KZ AS12 to embrace all new highs


Congratulations 
After a while of listening the sound is focused on a quite narrow range at heights. But it is decently detailed and precise. And then, there's the Bass, I guarantee you didn't hear anything like that. 
With a good cable and hw and sw source you will be rewarded with technically good sound and interesting, original tuning. One week I like it more and the second week less. 
I'm curious about your observations.


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> Is the ZS7 shell the same size as the ZS6?


 I don't know, I do not have the ZS6, though plenty of members here do!


----------



## TechnoidFR

baskingshark said:


> Is the ZS7 shell the same size as the ZS6?



Exactly same yes, very slightly more deep


----------



## archdawg (Aug 10, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Is the ZS7 shell the same size as the ZS6?


I took another look and mine seem identical in size. A minor drawback of the ZS7 IMO is the somewhat delicate anodizing job, another undocumented feature KZ copied from the Andromedas, lol. The 7s have been my daily beaters in the literal sense for about three months now, but I've treated my grey, 2nd gen ZS6 about the same way for some months longer and they still look somewhat better, not at last because of their brighter, silver-grey finish which is a closer match to the aluminum underneath.
BTW ... again, high time for KZ to get back to these time-proven, rugged 2-pin connections instead of that newer crumbling plastic crap they've tried on the ZSN (Pro), ZS10 Pro, et al.


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> I've been stocking up on the Blue, Tin Audio tips, they sit a little deeper and even though they only come in one size, my asymmetrical ear canals both get a good seal.  Here's a comparison to the New Bees, large



They sit deeper because they’re shorter. You can see it in your photos. To make ‘T2 foams’ out of your other ones, take a razor blade and slice off some of the back of the other tip. Boom


----------



## genck

lgcubana said:


> I've been stocking up on the Blue, Tin Audio tips, they sit a little deeper and even though they only come in one size, my asymmetrical ear canals both get a good seal.  Here's a comparison to the New Bees, large


If you contact Linsoul directly through Amazon you can buy those blue tips by themselves, 20 pair are $30. Right now they are also including 1 set with the tin hifi case they sell: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RXRQ3YJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just letting you know in case you want more


----------



## lgcubana (Aug 10, 2019)

genck said:


> If you contact Linsoul directly through Amazon you can buy those blue tips by themselves, 20 pair are $30. Right now they are also including 1 set with the tin hifi case they sell: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RXRQ3YJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Just letting you know in case you want more


Too late for me.  I bought 4 of their P1 cases, to get my cache of tips. 

$10 each, with 3 pairs of tips:
https://www.linsoul.com/product-page/tin-hifi-earphone-case


----------



## mikp

just got the zs10 pro to replace my lost es4. Hard to tell by memory, but these seems less bassy but more detailed.

so far sound like a good supplement to the tin t2. Only thing is the apt-x hd cables stick out a little on them.


----------



## steamboiled

ZSN Pro can hold up it’s own.


----------



## lucasbrea

steamboiled said:


> ZSN Pro can hold up it’s own.


Really, how close they are??


----------



## steamboiled (Aug 10, 2019)

lucasbrea said:


> Really, how close they are??


Well, I didn't mean it that way. For how well it performs, you won't think it's $20. Some friends of mine actually prefers it more than my other IEMs.


----------



## KimChee

Just ordered a set of the KZ T1, I have been interested in Bluetooth iems for a while now, and the price is pretty good.  Plus I need a set at work I can slip in my pocket when I’m at lunch.


----------



## KimChee

ZS7 sounds really good, I think you’ll like them.  I think they sound as good or better than my UE TF10 that I had made into a custom.



clerkpalmer said:


> You guys talked me into a ZS7 today. I don’t even like iems. I’m gonna try them with my Bt10 for starters. If I like them, Bt20s will be ordered. Going to see if they beat my true wireless headsets of which I have tried many.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 10, 2019)

steamboiled said:


> Well, I didn't mean it that way. For how well it performs, you won't think it's $20. Some friends of mine actually prefers it more than my other IEMs.



Didn't keep that ones. If I can't bump slightly the volume on a song I enjoy without feeling "pain" it's not worth it to me, and that's exactly the problem with the ZSN. To a lesser extent with the ZS10 pro but that "agression" characteristic is still looming.

Regardless of price I don't like to be agressed lol.

ZS7 is the most forward sound I tolerate comfortably, but for long sessions it's really relaxing to go back to my KB100 or KPE (apparently there's a bqeyz B1 that has the same characteristics than KB100, just more bass, it's around 36€ atm on ali, if anyone wants good value but something different, as KZ is a bit more of the same lately, look em up)


----------



## nicksson

KZ stock cable after 2-3 months of daily use: the softness is gone.


----------



## Assimilator702

citral23 said:


> Didn't keep that ones. If I can't bump slightly the volume on a song I enjoy without feeling "pain" it's not worth it to me, and that's exactly the problem with the ZSN. To a lesser extent with the ZS10 pro but that "agression" characteristic is still looming.
> 
> Regardless of price I don't like to be agressed lol.
> 
> ZS7 is the most forward sound I tolerate comfortably, but for long sessions it's really relaxing to go back to my KB100 or KPE (apparently there's a bqeyz B1 that has the same characteristics than KB100, just more bass, it's around 36€ atm on ali, if anyone wants good value but something different, as KZ is a bit more of the same lately, look em up)


My ZSN aren’t aggressive in the treble at all. Treble is present but never crosses the line with ANY type of music. Is your amp super bright?


----------



## citral23 (Aug 10, 2019)

It's more the artificial mids, didn't find them exaggeratedly bright. Hard to describe but I find those anything but relaxed, like very excited / in your face in fact. Highly personal I think, albeit there seems to be a consensus that the kb100 for example are "laid back" which I find too, so probably not only me.


----------



## Assimilator702

courierdriver said:


> +1 I like the Newbee's best for most of my iems. They are soft and comfortable. The Complys feel rough and scratchy in comparison. The Newbee also has a wider bore, so the mids and treble sound intact, but provide a good seal for deep bass. The Complys sound bass heavy, and mids and treble muffled.



I haven’t tried the NewBees but I have TRN and KZ and they’re both great quality for less than $2 for 6. The KZ look like they have a slightly wider bore than the TRN and the NiceHCK and Tin HiFi foams. They’re all fairly close though.


----------



## Podster (Aug 11, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How does the ZS10 Pro stack up against the BA10? Is the later still worthy of purchase?



Well for me the BA10 is smooth as butter in comparison the Pro gets a little bright on the top end and the low end gets a little loose but this is just how these two sound for me and  honestly I prefer my ZS7 to the Pro.


----------



## Assimilator702

B9Scrambler said:


> Yet there are still lots of complaints about it being too bright. Go figure...


If anyone thinks the AS10 are bright.....then fill your ear canals with cotton before listening to the A10. After owning the AS12 and A10 my AS10 are virtually unlistenable. I find the entire treble region stepped down too much to the point it feels separate from the midrange and everything below.


----------



## lgcubana (Aug 10, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Man, the last thing I need is another set of iems...but everyone keeps praising the ZS7 so much, I almost feel like I need these suckers in my collection. Love the fact that I can use pretty much any 2 pin I currently own or may buy in the future, but I'm in doubt and leary of the reported large size of those shells. ZS10 PRO fits me great, so does the new Nicehck NX7, which seems even smaller. Moondrop KPE is also great. All fairly small iems, that insert quite deep into my ears. I'm still not sure I could handle the comfort issue with the large size shells of the ZS7.


I just ordered the ZS7 and the respective 16 core, TRN T2, 2.5 mm

I have no idea why I'm thinking this might be a positive tweak on my Moondrop KPE's sound signature. But my Radsone ES100  should be more than able to EQ out any excessive sparkles that some reviewers have mentioned.

Edit:
Oh yeah, it's posts like this: 


Podster said:


> Well for me the BA10 is smooth as butter in comparison the Pro gets a little bright on the too end and the low end gets a little loose but this is just how these two sound for me and  honestly I prefer my ZS7 to the Pro.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I thought you were going to say: "a huge pain in the ass" but I guess you dont put your wallet in your back pocket.


Nope...but I get where you're coming from. My wallet is too filled up with cards, to make it comfortable to put back there. I keep it in my backpack, and usually only take the cards I need into the store I'm shopping at. Always in side pockets, btw. Anyone who gets THAT close to me, is guaranteed gonna get punched in the face!


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


> I just ordered the ZS7 and the respective 16 core, TRN T2, 2.5 mm
> 
> I have no idea why I'm thinking this might be a positive tweak on my Moondrop KPE's sound signature. But my Radsone ES100  should be more than able to EQ out any excessive sparkles that some reviewers have mentioned.
> 
> ...


Yeah, nice choice. I agree...the ES100 should work great with the ZS7. Do try to make use of that 2.5 balanced out. I have found balanced almost always sounds better than 3.5. Let us all know what you think about the ZS7, when you get them, and have had a chance to evaluate with your new cable.


----------



## Podster

lgcubana said:


> I just ordered the ZS7 and the respective 16 core, TRN T2, 2.5 mm
> 
> I have no idea why I'm thinking this might be a positive tweak on my Moondrop KPE's sound signature. But my Radsone ES100  should be more than able to EQ out any excessive sparkles that some reviewers have mentioned.
> 
> ...



You have read where I also state I’m not treble sensitive in the least right? Just want to state everyone does not here them the same or as I do! I feel a little pressure especially if they are not what you are expecting but at the same time they may and of course that 16 core will have them looking as good as they sound


----------



## KimChee

Fit is everything and a lot of people have trouble getting a good fit and seal.  Especially with the Roxanne and good fit and deep insertion is critical or the sound is all messed up, I have musician fit and had to have material added past the first bend to get a great seal...it’s a pain in the ass..



courierdriver said:


> Lmao! You sound just like I did about a year ago. I had bought a TOTL iem back in 2005...and HATED it! Spent $500, and thought it sounded like crap. I swore I'd never buy another ever again in my life. But these things have become so much better in the past 14 years, that I'm getting addicted and have bought 5 over the past 6 months. I'm also wanting to pull the plug on the ZS7. Maybe next month. Only thing holding me back is how big the shells are. Just not sure if they will fit my smaller ears well. But I'm intrigued by the bass performance and soundstage. Being a headfi member can be a huge pain in the wallet!


----------



## voicemaster

KimChee said:


> Fit is everything and a lot of people have trouble getting a good fit and seal.  Especially with the Roxanne and good fit and deep insertion is critical or the sound is all messed up, I have musician fit and had to have material added past the first bend to get a great seal...it’s a pain in the ass..



I have the v1 with those adjustable pods.


----------



## lgcubana

Podster said:


> You have read where I also state I’m not treble sensitive in the least right? Just want to state everyone does not here them the same or as I do! I feel a little pressure especially if they are not what you are expecting but at the same time they may and of course that 16 core will have them looking as good as they sound


It's all good.  You can only lead me to the edge of the abyss (aka the never ending search for audio nirvana, under $100). It's on me if I choose to jump in.


----------



## Bartig

Here’s my review on the KZ T1 TWS.


----------



## CYoung234

igorneumann said:


> The ED16 never soumded right for me, and I could never point the finger on what is wrong, it just sounds weird.


I agree. I sold mine....


----------



## clerkpalmer

Bartig said:


> Here’s my review on the KZ T1 TWS.


Good review and fair. I’m a little higher on the sq than you. But they are barely usable on my iPhone for the reason you described. Good thing I have a Note 10 incoming.  Sounds like it’s not an issue on Android?


----------



## Nimweth (Aug 11, 2019)

lgcubana said:


> I just ordered the ZS7 and the respective 16 core, TRN T2, 2.5 mm
> 
> I have no idea why I'm thinking this might be a positive tweak on my Moondrop KPE's sound signature. But my Radsone ES100  should be more than able to EQ out any excessive sparkles that some reviewers have mentioned.
> 
> ...


I have installed my 16 core TRN cable on my ZS7. It fits beautifully and sounds great. It's a marriage made in heaven! I am coming round to preferring the ZS7 to the ZS10 Pro. The mids on the ZS7 have a more natural timbre and I am finding the ZS10 Pro to be a little bit unremitting. It's kind of full throttle all the time which gets a bit fatiguing. ZS10 Pro review coming up.


----------



## SinisterDev

Yay! My new cable arrived today! And it fits into my phone with the case on!


----------



## archdawg (Aug 11, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> My ZSN aren’t aggressive in the treble at all. Treble is present but never crosses the line with ANY type of music. Is your amp super bright?


Neither are mine. Maybe that's because of a switch from one type of Bellsing 30095 BAs to another batch or the late "customized" 30095 that KZ started to mention in their product images some months ago. Later production runs or generations of some models, like the ZS6 and maybe others like the ZSN as well? (I only have one set from late 2018) seem to have less aggressive or piercing treble than those from first or early production run(s). I've yet to see frequency response graphs that confirm these changes, since most of them are being published in product reviews that usually deal with first or early generations soon after the roll-out of any new model.



Nimweth said:


> I have installed my 16 core TRN cable on my ZS7. It fits beautifully and sounds great. It's a marriage made in heaven! I am coming round to preferring the ZS7 to the ZS10 Pro. The mids on the ZS7 have a more natural timbre and I am finding the ZS10 Pro to be a little bit unremitting. It's kind of full throttle all the time which gets a bit fatiguing. ZS10 Pro review coming up.


I guess I get exactly what you mean by 'full throttle' and the resulting fatigue as well, I'm using my 10 Pro less and less.
Regarding 'coming round' .... after having tried a good number of 3rd party cables on the 7 they're back on the flat, braided KZ upgrade cable I started out with. On my Sonata DAC this combo delivers the best detail resolution, separation and layering of brass, woodwind and string ensembles in some of my test tracks. In some sequences I'm able to precisely pick out single instruments, something I found a lot more difficult with most of the other cables I've tried.


----------



## citral23

That doesn't make any sense lol


----------



## KimChee

I prefer the ZS7 too, and I have it paired with cable 130.  



Podster said:


> Well for me the BA10 is smooth as butter in comparison the Pro gets a little bright on the top end and the low end gets a little loose but this is just how these two sound for me and  honestly I prefer my ZS7 to the Pro.


----------



## KimChee

Thanks for the review.  I haven’t received these yet, but I do have an iPhone.  Crap.  Lol



Bartig said:


> Here’s my review on the KZ T1 TWS.


----------



## courierdriver

And that's why I always use upgraded cables. LOL! 


KimChee said:


> Fit is everything and a lot of people have trouble getting a good fit and seal.  Especially with the Roxanne and good fit and deep insertion is critical or the sound is all messed up, I have musician fit and had to have material added past the first bend to get a great seal...it’s a pain in the ass..


I bought a set of Shure E5c's back in 2005,  and absolutely HATED them. I sold them after 2.5 weeks. Those things were so highly praised and hyped back then...so I was really disappointed that they didn't live up to the hype, especially after spending so much money. It wasn't until late last year, that I thought I'd give iems another try. Now, after listening to several, I'm convinced that they have become SOOOO much better. Honestly tho, I don't think I'll ever buy another Shure product again. There's just so much better sounding stuff out there now, for less $$. At least to my ears, anyway.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> And that's why I always use upgraded cables. LOL!
> 
> I bought a set of Shure E5c's back in 2005,  and absolutely HATED them. I sold them after 2.5 weeks. Those things were so highly praised and hyped back then...so I was really disappointed that they didn't live up to the hype, especially after spending so much money. It wasn't until late last year, that I thought I'd give iems another try. Now, after listening to several, I'm convinced that they have become SOOOO much better. Honestly tho, I don't think I'll ever buy another Shure product again. There's just so much better sounding stuff out there now, for less $$. At least to my ears, anyway.



There were a lot of counterfeit Shure
E4c and E5c (among others). And sadly they were selling for as much as the genuines in many cases.

I wonder if you got a counterfeit one?

I loved my E4c (with Knowles ED-26805), and I still regret getting rid of it to this day. Of course, the E5c used different drivers (ED-23619 + CI-22955), so i don’t know how it would have sounded in comparison.


----------



## pstickne

Wiljen said:


> They both earn an "avoid" in my book unless you just love a bright treble.


What treble? Drop right off upper-mid and it’s dead at 6k per the graph.. avoid because generic lack of quality treble..


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> There were a lot of counterfeit Shure
> E4c and E5c (among others). And sadly they were selling for as much as the genuines in many cases.
> 
> I wonder if you got a counterfeit one?
> ...


Not sure, but it IS certainly possible. I bought my set from Ebay from someone who bought 3 sets brand new. My set was sold because the person didn't think his brother-in-law would appreciate them, so I ended up buying them for about $435. At the time, the exchange between US $ and CDN $ was more on par, so I splurged. He sent them to me via UPS tho, and I was dinged an extra $118 CDN for duties and taxes. After chasing the UPS guy around to pay the extra $, I got the package. The set were pristine, with only the shrinkwrap  taken off. Everything else was intact and original. Either way, the set themselves sounded like crap. At the time, they reminded me of the old single earbud that used to be included with old transistor radios back in the 70's. They sounded like it too! Lol!


----------



## SinisterDev (Aug 12, 2019)

The same thought crossed my mind. Apparently there's been a big problem with counterfeit Shure earphones. I haven't owned any personally, but I'm an avid Amazon user, and I noticed when looking at reviews for Shure's products that a number of the negative reviews involved customers receiving fakes! Some people even had several replacements sent to them all ending up being counterfeit! So it's not even limited to sites like Wish, Aliexpress, or even Ebay that buyers have to be cautious about. And the knock offs don't sound anywhere near as good as the genuine product. I saw a few people saying the problem had become so pervasive in the market that it felt like the only way to get a legit pair of certain models anymore was to order them directly from the manufacturer...
 It seems there's a few discussions on Shure's own forums about the problem too, and on sites like Reddit, and videos on YouTube, giving people advice on how to spot the fakes. Because they can look extremely convincing. Seems like it's not only limited to their earphones either. There are lots of counterfeit microphones and other products too unfortunately.
I saw a similar discussion recently about some expensive Sennheiser earphones too. And someone had pics of the legit ones and the counterfeits, and it was crazy how similar the two looked. What a shame.


----------



## SinisterDev

SinisterDev said:


> The same thought crossed my mind. Apparently there's been a big problem with counterfeit Shure earphones. I haven't owned any personally, but I'm an avid Amazon user, and I noticed when looking at reviews for Shure's products that a number of the negative reviews involved customers receiving fakes! Some people even had several replacements sent to them all ending up being counterfeit! So it's not even limited to sites like Wish, Aliexpress, or even Ebay that buyers have to be cautious about. And the knock offs don't sound anywhere near as good as the genuine product. I saw a few people saying the problem had become so pervasive in the market that it felt like the only way to get a legit pair of certain models anymore was to order them directly from the manufacturer...
> It seems there's a few discussions on Shure's own forums about the problem too, and on sites like Reddit, and videos on YouTube, giving people advice on how to spot the fakes. Because they can look extremely convincing. Seems like it's not only limited to their earphones either. There are lots of counterfeit microphones and other products too unfortunately.
> I saw a similar discussion recently about some expensive Sennheiser earphones too. And someone had pics of the legit ones and the counterfeits, and it was crazy how similar the two looked. What a shame.





courierdriver said:


> Not sure, but it IS certainly possible. I bought my set from Ebay from someone who bought 3 sets brand new. My set was sold because the person didn't think his brother-in-law would appreciate them, so I ended up buying them for about $435. At the time, the exchange between US $ and CDN $ was more on par, so I splurged. He sent them to me via UPS tho, and I was dinged an extra $118 CDN for duties and taxes. After chasing the UPS guy around to pay the extra $, I got the package. The set were pristine, with only the shrinkwrap  taken off. Everything else was intact and original. Either way, the set themselves sounded like crap. At the time, they reminded me of the old single earbud that used to be included with old transistor radios back in the 70's. They sounded like it too! Lol!



Hrrm.. it seems my initial quoting of the msg about the Shure earphones didn't take for some reason...


----------



## courierdriver (Aug 12, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Hrrm.. it seems my initial quoting of the msg about the Shure earphones didn't take for some reason...


Maybe it was me...my phone died when I was writing my response to @Slater. I sent it posted my reply, and halfway through, my phone shut down. Anyhow, I got your post...and like. For me, I just don't think I'm a Shure kinda guy. I've heard great things about the 846, but I'm just not in a position to drop that kinda coin. Even on cunuckaudiomart.com, a used set is going for many hundreds of $$'s. For the same price, their are many others that I'd give a shot to first.


----------



## courierdriver

I still think I'm gonna pull the plug on the ZS7, next month. From everything I've read so far (and it's been months of reading and seeing this model come up over and over again), I really think it's time to add this to my collection. I absolutely love my ZS10 PRO, but I'm curious about the ZS7. If the bass and soundstage is everything that members have been talking about, I'm certain I'll be happy. Only thing for me is, will they fit me comfortably enough. Time will soon tell, I guess.


----------



## SinisterDev

courierdriver said:


> Maybe it was me...my phone died when I was writing my response to @Slater. I sent it posted my reply, and halfway through, my phone shut down. Anyhow, I got your post...and like. For me, I just don't think I'm a Shure kinda guy. I've heard great things about the 846, but I'm just not in a position to drop that kinda coin. Even on cunuckaudiomart.com, a used set is going for many hundreds of $$'s. For the same price, their are many others that I'd give a shot to first.


 
Totally understandable. Honestly, I've never had enough disposable income to drop that much $ on a pair of headphones lol. That's why I'm very grateful for all this variety in these wild ChiFi IEMs lol. Never would have dreamed of earphones sounding this dang good for such affordable prices! This is a hobby I can totally afford. I'm really enjoying it.


----------



## SinisterDev

courierdriver said:


> I still think I'm gonna pull the plug on the ZS7, next month. From everything I've read so far (and it's been months of reading and seeing this model come up over and over again), I really think it's time to add this to my collection. I absolutely love my ZS10 PRO, but I'm curious about the ZS7. If the bass and soundstage is everything that members have been talking about, I'm certain I'll be happy. Only thing for me is, will they fit me comfortably enough. Time will soon tell, I guess.


I've been wondering the same. I picked up the ZS10 Pro because of all the praises it's gotten and now I'm really curious about the ZS7 too. They do look a bit big and blocky, but I'd be willing to give em a try, just for the experience. But now I'm also considering waiting for that sexy looking ZSX to come out and see what the community thinks about it and maybe pick that up instead if it ends up being an improved version of the ZS7...


----------



## Assimilator702

SinisterDev said:


> I've been wondering the same. I picked up the ZS10 Pro because of all the praises it's gotten and now I'm really curious about the ZS7 too. They do look a bit big and blocky, but I'd be willing to give em a try, just for the experience. But now I'm also considering waiting for that sexy looking ZSX to come out and see what the community thinks about it and maybe pick that up instead if it ends up being an improved version of the ZS7...


I'll be getting a pair the day they become available. They can't be a downgrade as that would be foolish for  thKZ and they do look damn sexy. They actually look to be the same housing as the CCA A10 and KZ AS12 so I'm hoping they take advantage of that and use the same plastic housing with the tuning tubes that's used to hold the BA drivers in those 2 models.

My next one might be the ZS7 which I never picked up.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 12, 2019)

Has anyone else noticed that the KZ 8 Core Silver Upgrade "A" (ZS7) cable is either out of stock or discontinued?

I believe KZ does have one on Amazon Canada but it's like $40!

I have 3 KZ 8 Core Silver Upgrade "B" cables.
Brand new... if anyone wants to trade.


----------



## archdawg (Aug 12, 2019)

Slater said:


> I loved my E4c (with Knowles ED-26805), and I still regret getting rid of it to this day. Of course, the E5c used different drivers (ED-23619 + CI-22955), so i don’t know how it would have sounded in comparison.


I mentioned my Shure E4 a while ago, I liked them so much that I bought 2 sets back in the day (US$ 399 retail back in 2005/06, bought mine in the US). They've been my daily bangers for a couple years until one earpiece got killed by a drop of sweat and the other side slowly followed suit. The fixed cables got stiffer and stiffer over the years and finally broke on both sides of both sets, close to the earpieces - no need to mention those critters were out of warranty at that time. Shure offered to send me a replacement set for little less than the same price I originally paid - no thanks (go ..... yourself).
As to the sound of the E4 - maybe as good as it gets for a single BA IEM or close but then single BAs have their limits, no matter how well they're tuned (> Etys) and these days a good number of 12-30€ chi-fi IEMs (QT5, ZSN(Pro), ZS7, Tin T2, BQEYZ KC2, MD Crescents,...) get pretty close to the technical  level of the E4 or even above IMO (details, imaging and separation, especially with busy tracks, (sub-)bass quality, ...).

Lessons learned:
- no more Shure products for me
- same story with 30+€ IEMs without replaceable cables and generally expensive stuff I can't easily open and fix myself
- I make sure my (multi-)BA or hybrids stay dry at all times (sweat, humidity, ...) and use sh.tloads of Silica-Gel in my waterproof cases

Anyway, I still have those two sets in storage somewhere, no big deal to fix them, I might even try to install MMCX connectors, time will tell.


----------



## Nimweth

My review of the ZS10 Pro is now available:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10-pro.23715/reviews


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

citral23 said:


> Didn't keep that ones. If I can't bump slightly the volume on a song I enjoy without feeling "pain" it's not worth it to me, and that's exactly the problem with the ZSN. To a lesser extent with the ZS10 pro but that "agression" characteristic is still looming.
> 
> Regardless of price I don't like to be agressed lol.
> 
> ZS7 is the most forward sound I tolerate comfortably, but for long sessions it's really relaxing to go back to my KB100 or KPE (apparently there's a bqeyz B1 that has the same characteristics than KB100, just more bass, it's around 36€ atm on ali, if anyone wants good value but something different, as KZ is a bit more of the same lately, look em up)


I ordered the BQEYZ KB100 as a counterweight to the treble forward KZ models. I have some music/mixes that need laid-back sort of treble. Thanks for a tip.


----------



## citral23

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I ordered the BQEYZ KB100 as a counterweight to the treble forward KZ models. I have some music/mixes that need laid-back sort of treble. Thanks for a tip.



You're welcome, it's not only the treble, it's the general tonal/balance that is more relaxed, includes mids and bass that hasn't as much impact (but isn't lacking in any way imo)

Hope you'll enjoy them, they are not super far in sound quality from the KPE imho


----------



## Miki811

Hey guys! I've owned my KZ ZS10 for a couple of months and until now, I'm really happy with the sound. However, I'm getting that chifi itch again and would want to get another one. I'm currently looking at three; KZ ZSN Pro, KZ ZS10 Pro, and CCA C10. I don't have any reference, but based on the reviews I've seen these three are really good. To be honest, I don't find anything wrong with the ZS10, but I'm itching to have something like a "modernized" ZS10. If the new one will introduce better details and tighter bass, then that's a bonus!

I know most might say go for the ZS10 Pro, but I'd like to keep my budget small.

-Will the ZSN Pro be a downgrade from the old KZ ZS10?
-How good is the CCA C10 compared to KZ ZS10? I've hear/seen that the CCA C10 is really smooth without compromising bass and treble.
-Out of the 3, KZ ZS10 Pro is the best (based on multiple reviews). But is the upgrade worth it from ZS10?


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 12, 2019)

Miki811 said:


> Hey guys! I've owned my KZ ZS10 for a couple of months and until now, I'm really happy with the sound. However, I'm getting that chifi itch again and would want to get another one. I'm currently looking at three; KZ ZSN Pro, KZ ZS10 Pro, and CCA C10. I don't have any reference, but based on the reviews I've seen these three are really good. To be honest, I don't find anything wrong with the ZS10, but I'm itching to have something like a "modernized" ZS10. If the new one will introduce better details and tighter bass, then that's a bonus!
> 
> I know most might say go for the ZS10 Pro, but I'd like to keep my budget small.
> 
> ...



I haven't heard the ZSN pro or C10 but i have ZS10 and ZS10Pro and they are very different IEMs and the pro is not really a direct successor actually.

The ZS10 Pro is less V shaped and brighter than the original ZS10. The former also has better details, instrument separation and clarity than the latter. Importantly, the fit and comfort is better on the ZS10 pro.
I personally think the soundstage is wider on the original ZS10, and the original also has deeper and louder bass (but it is not as detailed and quite muddy with a midbass bleed).


----------



## pbui44

courierdriver said:


> Maybe it was me...my phone died when I was writing my response to @Slater. I sent it posted my reply, and halfway through, my phone shut down. Anyhow, I got your post...and like. For me, I just don't think I'm a Shure kinda guy. I've heard great things about the 846, but I'm just not in a position to drop that kinda coin. Even on cunuckaudiomart.com, a used set is going for many hundreds of $$'s. For the same price, their are many others that I'd give a shot to first.



I have owned the SE846 and it is a great IEM...but it is truly worth price as a mundane professional monitor.  It has lots of sub-bass, but will expose a recording’s flaws, especially when there is a ton of quantity bass.  This will make you think that the bass is bleeding everywhere else, but it’s just the recording itself.  The mids are intimate and lush, which will expose flaws in recording overtones and make you wish you could adjust the tone knob on the recording.  The treble has a taut sparkle...which does not leave much to the imagination.  The soundstage is about below average and will need better amping to improve upon it.  

I enjoyed the JH Roxanne much more, which also has its own advantageous monitoring qualities.  You can take almost all of the SE846’s qualities (except bass impact) and put them all into a larger soundstage in the Roxannes.  Granted, the fit is terrible and I finally found a use for some SpinFit toddler-sized (XS) ear tips that I received from a trade.  

A lot of people preferred various Campfire Audio Andromeda IEM models over the SE846, but I never bothered with them, as the housing is dimensionally the same as the KZ ZS6 and is not a very good fit over time for me.  Either way, diminishing leisure values come into consideration for me and expensive IEMs, as I have other stuff that I can use for monitoring and do not need such precision in a portable monitor.  Yes, I prefer Over-Ear and On-Ears over In-Ears for monitoring, but my need for monitoring portability is almost always considered and it is just not really at the SE846/Roxanne/Andromeda level.


----------



## Miki811

baskingshark said:


> I haven't heard the ZSN pro or C10 but i have ZS10 and ZS10Pro and they are very different IEMs and the pro is not really a direct successor actually.
> 
> The ZS10 Pro is less V shaped and brighter than the original ZS10. The former also has better details, instrument separation and clarity than the latter. Importantly, the fit and comfort is better on the ZS10 pro.
> I personally think the soundstage is wider on the original ZS10, and the original also has deeper and louder bass (but it is not as detailed and quite muddy with a midbass bleed).


Yeah that's the praise I'm seeing as well, but the price is just right below my budget ceiling for these things lol! If C10 or ZSN Pro doesn't do the job, I might go straight to ZS10 Pro. I definitely like details, clarity, and instrument separation. Keeps my ears and mind alert to look for small details in the music. Like hearing the sticks of the drummer hitting the ride or hi-hat (actual stick sound, not the cymbal sound) and looking for those small but natural sounds (string slides, inconsistent but natural voice tone, etc.)

I really have high hopes for the CCA C10, but if it's a downgrade, I might pass on it.


----------



## maxxevv

Miki811 said:


> Yeah that's the praise I'm seeing as well, but the price is just right below my budget ceiling for these things lol! If C10 or ZSN Pro doesn't do the job, I might go straight to ZS10 Pro. I definitely like details, clarity, and instrument separation. Keeps my ears and mind alert to look for small details in the music. Like hearing the sticks of the drummer hitting the ride or hi-hat (actual stick sound, not the cymbal sound) and looking for those small but natural sounds (string slides, inconsistent but natural voice tone, etc.)
> 
> I really have high hopes for the CCA C10, but if it's a downgrade, I might pass on it.



If the ZS10 PRO price range is within your limit but you don't wish to spend that much, then procrastinate a few weeks. 

Aliexpress typically has a sale in September before the November 11 sales roll along. You should see the prices drop a few extra dollars in the sales window compared to current price levels. Pretty confident that it will drop below the US$35/- level during sales since we already find prices as low as US$37/- now.


----------



## Miyanovic

I don't know if you had already seen this review. Anyway, I would like to know what you think about it. Honestly, my Kz zsn doesn't sound so bad, but it is true that the treble have a bit of annoying peaks. Sometimes they sound somewhat annoying and artificial.


----------



## B9Scrambler

pbui44 said:


> I have owned the SE846 and it is a great IEM...but it is truly worth price as a mundane professional monitor.  It has lots of sub-bass, but will expose a recording’s flaws, especially when there is a ton of quantity bass.  This will make you think that the bass is bleeding everywhere else, but it’s just the recording itself.  The mids are intimate and lush, which will expose flaws in recording overtones and make you wish you could adjust the tone knob on the recording.  The treble has a taut sparkle...which does not leave much to the imagination.  The soundstage is about below average and will need better amping to improve upon it.
> 
> I enjoyed the JH Roxanne much more, which also has its own advantageous monitoring qualities.  You can take almost all of the SE846’s qualities (except bass impact) and put them all into a larger soundstage in the Roxannes.  Granted, the fit is terrible and I finally found a use for some SpinFit toddler-sized (XS) ear tips that I received from a trade.
> 
> A lot of people preferred various Campfire Audio Andromeda IEM models over the SE846, but I never bothered with them, as the housing is dimensionally the same as the KZ ZS6 and is not a very good fit over time for me.  Either way, diminishing leisure values come into consideration for me and expensive IEMs, as I have other stuff that I can use for monitoring and do not need such precision in a portable monitor.  Yes, I prefer Over-Ear and On-Ears over In-Ears for monitoring, but my need for monitoring portability is almost always considered and it is just not really at the SE846/Roxanne/Andromeda level.



Kz's take on the CA shells are completely different. The CA shells are notably smaller and more ergonomic.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 12, 2019)

Miki811 said:


> Hey guys! I've owned my KZ ZS10 for a couple of months and until now, I'm really happy with the sound. However, I'm getting that chifi itch again and would want to get another one. I'm currently looking at three; KZ ZSN Pro, KZ ZS10 Pro, and CCA C10. I don't have any reference, but based on the reviews I've seen these three are really good. To be honest, I don't find anything wrong with the ZS10, but I'm itching to have something like a "modernized" ZS10. If the new one will introduce better details and tighter bass, then that's a bonus!
> 
> I know most might say go for the ZS10 Pro, but I'd like to keep my budget small.
> 
> ...



Imo the best at the moment is to wait for the first reviews of the ZSX :

Maybe it's better than ZS7 and ZS10 pro combined : no reason not to get it
Maybe it's similar to ZS10 pro : ZS10 pro price will eventually drop because there's a newer one. Personally I'd go for ZS7 over either (if they sound similar)

Don't think ZSN pro would bring any benefit, I'd recommend something like Einsear T2 over it


----------



## Miki811

maxxevv said:


> If the ZS10 PRO price range is within your limit but you don't wish to spend that much, then procrastinate a few weeks.
> 
> Aliexpress typically has a sale in September before the November 11 sales roll along. You should see the prices drop a few extra dollars in the sales window compared to current price levels. Pretty confident that it will drop below the US$35/- level during sales since we already find prices as low as US$37/- now.


Well, pulled the trigger just now lol! I guess when it comes to the sound, ZS10 Pro is really good. Really excited for it and nervous at the same time that maybe I can't find the difference lol


----------



## Miki811

citral23 said:


> Imo the best at the moment is to wait for the first reviews of the ZSX :
> 
> Maybe it's better than ZS7 and ZS10 pro combined : no reason not to get it
> Maybe it's similar to ZS10 pro : ZS10 pro price will eventually drop because there's a newer one. Personally I'd go for ZS7 over either (if they sound similar)
> ...


I feel that ZSX could be around the BA10 price range. Not sure though, but looking that it has 12 drivers, I'd steer away from it mainly due to price (outside my small audio budget). Went ahead and ordered a ZS10 Pro


----------



## lgcubana

*ZS10 Pro vs ZS7*

As indicated in the 1st image, the two KZs do not share the same footprint.  For my ears, the ZS7s are actually a better fit than the ZS10 Pro.  Also, the shorter Tin Audio blue tips (vs the RIYO/New Bee tips)  allowed for an ever so slightly deeper seating.

The only con so far: the right side has driver flex.  I've never experienced this before; it almost sounds like when you pop a cap off of a bottle.  But the driver flex only rears it's head during seating, when I press my finger against the back plate; it shouldn't effect playback.


----------



## igorneumann

Miki811 said:


> Hey guys! I've owned my KZ ZS10 for a couple of months and until now, I'm really happy with the sound. However, I'm getting that chifi itch again and would want to get another one. I'm currently looking at three; KZ ZSN Pro, KZ ZS10 Pro, and CCA C10. I don't have any reference, but based on the reviews I've seen these three are really good. To be honest, I don't find anything wrong with the ZS10, but I'm itching to have something like a "modernized" ZS10. If the new one will introduce better details and tighter bass, then that's a bonus!
> 
> I know most might say go for the ZS10 Pro, but I'd like to keep my budget small.
> 
> ...



YES, its a big upgrade, get the ZS10... Once you have it I would suggest OTHER models as the ZSN is about more of the same.

I really like the ZS4, the ZS6 (despite fitting), the AS10, the ED15 (needs spinfit or other kind of hook for me) etc...


----------



## igorneumann

Miki811 said:


> I feel that ZSX could be around the BA10 price range. Not sure though, but looking that it has 12 drivers, I'd steer away from it mainly due to price (outside my small audio budget). Went ahead and ordered a ZS10 Pro



Im really over the KZ driver count game... Trying with other brands, will go back in a split second when they announce a higher end model with less drivers. (Meaning, better ones)


----------



## pbui44

B9Scrambler said:


> Kz's take on the CA shells are completely different. The CA shells are notably smaller and more ergonomic.



Andromeda owners have reported the edges to be sharp and uncomfortable, like the KZ.  Like how arbitrariness does not equate to logic, higher price in itself does not justify quality.


----------



## Miki811

igorneumann said:


> YES, its a big upgrade, get the ZS10... Once you have it I would suggest OTHER models as the ZSN is about more of the same.
> 
> I really like the ZS4, the ZS6 (despite fitting), the AS10, the ED15 (needs spinfit or other kind of hook for me) etc...


Yup already purchased -- went straight to ZS10 Pro. Now just to bug one of my friends to buy my old ZS10 for cheap.  ZS3/4 shells are the best fit for my ears. Too bad that it does not pair up to the sound sig I like. If only they created budget but detailed IEMs with ZS3/4 shells. I'd take them right away!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

igorneumann said:


> Im really over the KZ driver count game... Trying with other brands, will go back in a split second when they announce a higher end model with less drivers. (Meaning, better ones)



Totally agree with that sentiment. KZ needs to either get back to it's cheap DD roots or get into the $40-80 bracket with single BAs/DDs. I still find ED9 as one of the best KZs as they're actually a game-changing IEMs in so many aspects. By the looks of it, soon, they'll get into that maddening 25BA per side IEMs space. It might appeal to their local consumers but will alienate them in the foreign markets.


----------



## B9Scrambler

pbui44 said:


> Andromeda owners have reported the edges to be sharp and uncomfortable, like the KZ.  Like how arbitrariness does not equate to logic, higher price in itself does not justify quality.



"A lot of people preferred various Campfire Audio Andromeda IEM models over the SE846, but I never bothered with them, *as the housing is dimensionally the same as the KZ ZS6* and is not a very good fit over time for me."

As said, the shells are completely different and not "dimensionally the same as the ZS6". No angle is the same. The size is different. The weight is different. The nozzles are totally different. The CA shells are smaller, and they do have better ergonomics, thanks to the size, weight, and additional angles and creases that for some keep the shells from jabbing sensitive ears. That's not the same as saying the CA shells are perfect. I was simply addressing your factually inaccurate statement.


----------



## pbui44

B9Scrambler said:


> "A lot of people preferred various Campfire Audio Andromeda IEM models over the SE846, but I never bothered with them, *as the housing is dimensionally the same as the KZ ZS6* and is not a very good fit over time for me."
> 
> As said, the shells are completely different and not "dimensionally the same as the ZS6". No angle is the same. The size is different. The weight is different. The nozzles are totally different. The CA shells are smaller, and they do have better ergonomics, thanks to the size, weight, and additional angles and creases that for some keep the shells from jabbing sensitive ears. That's not the same as saying the CA shells are perfect. I was simply addressing your factually inaccurate statement.



Experiences with comfort between the CA Andromeda and KZ ZS6 are similar, so that is a dealbreaker for me.  Even when physically scaled down, it would not fit in my ear properly.  Just a reminder, I have been speaking about myself and no one else.


----------



## B9Scrambler

pbui44 said:


> Experiences with comfort are the same, so that is a dealbreaker for me.  Even when physically scaled down, it would not fit in my ear properly.  Just a reminder, I have been speaking about myself and no one else.



Congrats. It's still not the same shell.


----------



## pbui44

B9Scrambler said:


> Congrats. It's still not the same shell.



I was hoping you would talk about the sound to better justify your reason of owning a CA Andromeda, since you own one.  It’s giving me an impression that the sound is not worth talking about in the first place.


----------



## B9Scrambler

pbui44 said:


> I was hoping you would talk about the sound to better justify your reason of owning a CA Andromeda, since you own one.  It’s giving me an impression that the sound is not worth talking about in the first place.



Sound has nothing to do with anything, and there is no comparison anyway. ZS6 is good for the price, but it does not compete with the Andro. You said the shells are the same. They're not. They're very similar, but the ZS6 is KZ's take on the CA design language and not a 1:1 copy. Still doesn't make what they did right, but they're not the same.


  ​


----------



## SinisterDev

baskingshark said:


> I haven't heard the ZSN pro or C10 but i have ZS10 and ZS10Pro and they are very different IEMs and the pro is not really a direct successor actually.
> 
> The ZS10 Pro is less V shaped and brighter than the original ZS10. The former also has better details, instrument separation and clarity than the latter. Importantly, the fit and comfort is better on the ZS10 pro.
> I personally think the soundstage is wider on the original ZS10, and the original also has deeper and louder bass (but it is not as detailed and quite muddy with a midbass bleed).



I just recently got into the Chifi scene myself recently. I haven't heard the original ZS10 to compare, but I do own the ZS10 Pro and CCA C10 and I frikkin love them both lol! I've seen alot of complaints about the original ZS10, and some people who say they like them, but it does seem like the majority of users on here feel that the ZS10 Pro is leaps and bounds better.

I don't know much about the ZSN Pro,aside from what I've read on here. I've been seeing quite a few people mentioning things they like about the ZS7 lately. And also the ZSX is coming out soon, and that's looking pretty sexy. I'm really curious about it personally.


----------



## Zerohour88

B9Scrambler said:


> "A lot of people preferred various Campfire Audio Andromeda IEM models over the SE846, but I never bothered with them, *as the housing is dimensionally the same as the KZ ZS6* and is not a very good fit over time for me."
> 
> As said, the shells are completely different and not "dimensionally the same as the ZS6". No angle is the same. The size is different. The weight is different. The nozzles are totally different. The CA shells are smaller, and they do have better ergonomics, thanks to the size, weight, and additional angles and creases that for some keep the shells from jabbing sensitive ears. That's not the same as saying the CA shells are perfect. I was simply addressing your factually inaccurate statement.



got the ZS5v1 to test out the "Andro" fit, then finally got the Andro itself. It definitely feels much more comfortable, despite the similar angular design. Could wear it for hours without issues.


----------



## Assimilator702 (Aug 12, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> If the ZS10 PRO price range is within your limit but you don't wish to spend that much, then procrastinate a few weeks.
> 
> Aliexpress typically has a sale in September before the November 11 sales roll along. You should see the prices drop a few extra dollars in the sales window compared to current price levels. Pretty confident that it will drop below the US$35/- level during sales since we already find prices as low as US$37/- now.


For all the things you mentioned that you like about a sound signature the C10 is an upgrade over the ZS10 PRO. I’m a drummer myself so anything percussion related is something I pay very close attention to. The ZS10 PRO is brighter and covers up much of the stick impacts which lie in the lower treble and some in the upper midrange. But it needs to be cohesive with the treble to tie it all together. C10 does this while the ZS10 PRO does not in many instances. My first test is track #1 on  the Chick Corea album Like Minds which has a ride cymbal being lightly hit with what sounds like a wood tip. This sound is alone in that region as no other instruments are occupying that space and I know what it should sound like from the reference headphones I own or have heard it on. Other tracks I use are track #4 off Gogira Magma. Very clear hihats but recorded from a distance around three feet above the kit. The sound of the Hi-Hats clanging together should  be very clear. Those sounds don’t sound right to my ear on the ZS10 PRO but do on the C10. This is the main reason I tend to not grab the ZS10 PRO many times considering I have other sets that get the top end much more “correct” sounding.

None of this budget Fi is perfect but each set  has its own strengths so we grab the set that fits the recording. That’s the name of the game with the budget stuff.

I actually recommend the TRN IM2 if you like percussion reproduced without major isssues. $17 on AE and $25 on Amazon. Very enjoyable iem and it’s one of my favorites. Also if you don’t have a Tin HiFi T2 get that as it’s very nice from bottom to top. Micropore tape on the nozzle vent gives a considerable bass boost that never bleeds into the mids. $28 on AE right now. A no brainer and I’m kicking myself for not getting them sooner.


----------



## courierdriver

SinisterDev said:


> Totally understandable. Honestly, I've never had enough disposable income to drop that much $ on a pair of headphones lol. That's why I'm very grateful for all this variety in these wild ChiFi IEMs lol. Never would have dreamed of earphones sounding this dang good for such affordable prices! This is a hobby I can totally afford. I'm really enjoying it.


Same here and I'm glad you are having fun too. I'm in the same boat, as I don't have alot of discretionary surplus income to spend on really expensive stuff. When I first came across this Chifi gear a year ago, I was happy because now I could finally afford to buy something that sounded great and could compete with all that expensive stuff that other companies were selling for hundreds or thousands of $'s. I think that companies like Campfire, 64 Audio, Empire Ears, etc. don't do themselves or potential buyers any good, by alienating a huge portion of the general public, by charging such high prices, which only maybe 20% (and I might even be high on that guesstimate) of the world's population can afford. Before Chifi came along, I pretty much shut the door on ever getting back into my audio hobby. Everything that looked good and was well reviewed cost way beyond what I can afford. With Chifi getting better and better, there's no longer a need to spend thousands on a good iem or dap.


----------



## courierdriver

Miki811 said:


> Well, pulled the trigger just now lol! I guess when it comes to the sound, ZS10 Pro is really good. Really excited for it and nervous at the same time that maybe I can't find the difference lol


Great choice and I'm sure you will hear the difference between them and your regular ZS10. After I bought my first set, I was sooo blown away at how good they sounded (my initial reaction was: "These only cost less than $50??!! That's unreal!") that I bought a second set for even less, to give to someone at Christmas. They really are THAT good. I guess in the end, it will all just depend on whether or not you like their sound signature. Personally, I really do and every time I use them, I keep questioning how something so inexpensive can sound so good.


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> Same here and I'm glad you are having fun too. I'm in the same boat, as I don't have alot of discretionary surplus income to spend on really expensive stuff. When I first came across this Chifi gear a year ago, I was happy because now I could finally afford to buy something that sounded great and could compete with all that expensive stuff that other companies were selling for hundreds or thousands of $'s. I think that companies like Campfire, 64 Audio, Empire Ears, etc. don't do themselves or potential buyers any good, by alienating a huge portion of the general public, by charging such high prices, which only maybe 20% (and I might even be high on that guesstimate) of the world's population can afford. Before Chifi came along, I pretty much shut the door on ever getting back into my audio hobby. Everything that looked good and was well reviewed cost way beyond what I can afford. With Chifi getting better and better, there's no longer a need to spend thousands on a good iem or dap.


Same.  Prior to getting hooked by the hype on the Tin HiFi T3, I only had one pair of IEMS; which were bought for $60 USD, about 3 yrs ago. The expanse was so wide to the next step up, that I didn't bother.

Now with the constant evolution of the ChiFi options, I'm beginning to ponder the dumping of my headphone collection. I've never considered myself a real bass head, but if a track was recorded that way, I want to hear it.  Now with options like the TFZ No. 3 and the KZ ZS7, I'm actually getting the sub bass, without making a sacrifice to the 20 hz - 120 hz range.

Also, it doesn't hurt to have portable DAC/Amp options like the Radsone ES100; which can (possibly) dial in your custom preference, on an IEM that hits most of your wish list.


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


> Same.  Prior to getting hooked by the hype on the Tin HiFi T3, I only had one pair of IEMS; which were bought for $60 USD, about 3 yrs ago. The expanse was so wide to the next step up, that I didn't bother.
> 
> Now with the constant evolution of the ChiFi options, I'm beginning to ponder the dumping of my headphone collection. I've never considered myself a real bass head, but if a track was recorded that way, I want to hear it.  Now with options like the TFZ No. 3 and the KZ ZS7, I'm actually getting the sub bass, without making a sacrifice to the 20 hz - 120 hz range.
> 
> Also, it doesn't hurt to have portable DAC/Amp options like the Radsone ES100; which can (possibly) dial in your custom preference, on an IEM that hits most of your wish list.


Yeah, I'm with you bro! I've got headphones (Grado SR225, Massdrop Hifiman HE4XX, BLON 2 and Takstar Pro82). Ready to sell all except for Takstar's. I'll never sell those, because of comfort and SQ. The fact that they are also pretty easy to drive with a dap or portable dac/amp, makes them my favorite over ears. Iems have come a long way and it's now possible to get the same SQ that was available 4 or 5 years ago, for much less money. As many others have already said; this is a great time to get awesome sounding gear for less money. People just need to stop stereotyping  it, listen, and save their hard earned money. If people stopped being biased and opened their minds, they would be in for a pleasant surprise.


----------



## courierdriver

SinisterDev said:


> I just recently got into the Chifi scene myself recently. I haven't heard the original ZS10 to compare, but I do own the ZS10 Pro and CCA C10 and I frikkin love them both lol! I've seen alot of complaints about the original ZS10, and some people who say they like them, but it does seem like the majority of users on here feel that the ZS10 Pro is leaps and bounds better.
> 
> I don't know much about the ZSN Pro,aside from what I've read on here. I've been seeing quite a few people mentioning things they like about the ZS7 lately. And also the ZSX is coming out soon, and that's looking pretty sexy. I'm really curious about it personally.


If you have the ZS10 PRO  and CCA 10, I don't think there is any reason to buy the ZSN/PRO. These 2 are already a step up in SQ, imo.


----------



## Miki811

Assimilator702 said:


> For all the things you mentioned that you like about a sound signature the C10 is an upgrade over the ZS10 PRO. I’m a drummer myself so anything percussion related is something I pay very close attention to. The ZS10 PRO is brighter and covers up much of the stick impacts which lie in the lower treble and some in the upper midrange. But it needs to be cohesive with the treble to tie it all together. C10 does this while the ZS10 PRO does not in many instances. My first test is the Chick Corea album Like Minds which has a ride cymbal being lightly hit which what sounds like a wood tip. This sound is alone in that region as no other instruments are occupying that space and I know what it should sound like from the reference headphones I own or have heard it on. Other tracks I use are track #4 off Gogira Magma. Very clear hihats but recorded from a distance around three feet above the kit. Thesound should not be burned and be very clear. Those sounds don’t sound right to my ear on the ZS10 PRO but do on the C10. This is the main reason I tend to not grab the ZS10 PRO many times considering I have other sets that get the top end much more “correct” sounding.
> 
> None of this budget Fi is perfect but each set squally has its own strengths so we grab the set that fits the recording. That’s the name of the game with the budget stuff.
> 
> I actually recommend the TRN IM2 if you like percussion reproduced without major isssues. $17 on AE and $25 on Amazon. Very enjoyable iem and it’s one of my favorites. Also if you don’t have a Tin HiFi T2 get that as it’s very nice from bottom to top. Micropore tape on the nozzle vent gives a considerable bass boost that never bleeds into the mids. $28 on AE right now. A no brainer and I’m kicking myself for not getting that sooner.


Now this got me thinking twice! Though I'm not a heavily percussive person, those stick plays and impacts really keeps me looking for them lol! I've already ordered the ZS10 Pro, so I guess I'll aim for the C10 next. I'm still looking forward with the ZS10 Pro though, but I'd wish I could buy both at the same time hahaha!

I did listen to a Chick Corea song and the one from Gojira using my ZS10. I'd say this ol' one plays good, but I don't know, I haven't heard/owned anything better than the ZS10 so I don't really know what to look for. But I do get the clear hihats being recorded around 3 feet, but then again, I don't have any reference for comparison. This really makes me excited as it could provide a new experience!


----------



## SinisterDev

courierdriver said:


> If you have the ZS10 PRO  and CCA 10, I don't think there is any reason to buy the ZSN/PRO. These 2 are already a step up in SQ, imo.



That's what I was thinking too. But I am really curious to see how the ZSX is going to stack up against them.


----------



## Miki811

courierdriver said:


> Great choice and I'm sure you will hear the difference between them and your regular ZS10. After I bought my first set, I was sooo blown away at how good they sounded (my initial reaction was: "These only cost less than $50??!! That's unreal!") that I bought a second set for even less, to give to someone at Christmas. They really are THAT good. I guess in the end, it will all just depend on whether or not you like their sound signature. Personally, I really do and every time I use them, I keep questioning how something so inexpensive can sound so good.


Yeah, and I'm already experiencing somewhat like a buyer's remorse for not getting the C10. Would most likely feel the same for ZS10 Pro if I triggered for C10 lol! I'm definitely looking forward for the ZS10 Pro. I'm actually more excited that it will fit in my ear better with the smaller footprint compared to the bulky ZS10 -- I've got comments from time to time that it looks like I'm wearing hearing aids.


----------



## froidy

Thanks for the replies on tips for ZS10 PRO, I ended up getting some new bee foams off Amazon. Apparently the life isn't great but the price was right! May try some spinfit and comply tips down the track  
I've been using an ipod on shuffle to 'burn in' my IEM for around 50 hours now. Should I be using the 1MORE for better results?


----------



## Miki811

froidy said:


> Thanks for the replies on tips for ZS10 PRO, I ended up getting some new bee foams off Amazon. Apparently the life isn't great but the price was right! May try some spinfit and comply tips down the track
> I've been using an ipod on shuffle to 'burn in' my IEM for around 50 hours now. Should I be using the 1MORE for better results?


I was using foams on my ZS10 (non pro) but ended up for spinfits. I dunno but the spinfits definitely gives a more "direct" sound and somehow increased the details and instrument separation on mine.


----------



## froidy

Awesome, I'll give them a try next then! That's what I'm after  
Did you go with the CP145? I see some people using them and others the CP100. I want to make sure I order the correct ones. TIA!


----------



## Miki811

froidy said:


> Awesome, I'll give them a try next then! That's what I'm after
> Did you go with the CP145? I see some people using them and others the CP100. I want to make sure I order the correct ones. TIA!


Yup, I'm using the 145s. I haven't experienced the 100 though. Can't even tell the difference (picture wise) between 145 and 100. I think 145 is longer? I was supposed to buy the 100 but only 145 was available. Still didn't regret the purchase.


----------



## froidy

Miki811 said:


> Yup, I'm using the 145s. I haven't experienced the 100 though. Can't even tell the difference (picture wise) between 145 and 100. I think 145 is longer? I was supposed to buy the 100 but only 145 was available. Still didn't regret the purchase.



Thanks Miki, I'll give them a go and post my thoughts here


----------



## Miki811

froidy said:


> Thanks Miki, I'll give them a go and post my thoughts here


Sure thing! One thing to keep in mind though, mine pops out from time to time since my ZS10 doesn't have a nozzle tip or lip or whatever you call them.


----------



## macky112

For my KZ brothers and sisters, this song will do your ZS7 justice


----------



## macky112

@Slater i just noticed you got an earstudio ES100 do you feel the balanced out makes our KZ sound better?

Ie is it worth it to get ES100 and balanced canoes fit our KZs


----------



## Slater

macky112 said:


> @Slater i just noticed you got an earstudio ES100 do you feel the balanced out makes our KZ sound better?
> 
> Ie is it worth it to get ES100 and balanced canoes fit our KZs



I do have an ES100, but unfortunately I don’t have any balanced cables (yet). I have numerous single ended cables, but never had a need for balanced cables until recently (ie when I got the ES100).

I do need to order a few balanced cables (or at least some 2.5mm plugs to make some), so I can see if I can tell any difference for myself.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 13, 2019)

Miki811 said:


> Hey guys! How good is the CCA C10 compared to KZ ZS10?


That's a great question my ears don't have the answer to. I hope someone else's does.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Since the KZ 8 Core Silver A Cable for the ZS7 seems to be gonzo. Do you guys have a second choice?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Miki811 said:


> Hey guys! I've owned my KZ ZS10 for a couple of months and until now, I'm really happy with the sound. However, I'm getting that chifi itch again and would want to get another one. I'm currently looking at three; KZ ZSN Pro, KZ ZS10 Pro, and CCA C10. I don't have any reference, but based on the reviews I've seen these three are really good. To be honest, I don't find anything wrong with the ZS10, but I'm itching to have something like a "modernized" ZS10. If the new one will introduce better details and tighter bass, then that's a bonus!
> 
> I know most might say go for the ZS10 Pro, but I'd like to keep my budget small.
> 
> ...


I consider AS10 as an upgrade to the ZS10. They are better balanced, more detailed and only slightly more expensive. If you paid a little more or waited for a discount, they would last more than a few months.


----------



## Miki811

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I consider AS10 as an upgrade to the ZS10. They are better balanced, more detailed and only slightly more expensive. If you paid a little more or waited for a discount, they would last more than a few months.


But how is the AS10 compared to the ZS10 Pro?


----------



## lgcubana

*ZS7*
15 hrs. in: Flopped back to the New Bee/RIYO tips.  The Tin HiFi, blue tips (which allowed a slightly deeper seating) were making the vocals a little (ironically) tinny


----------



## KimChee (Aug 13, 2019)

I figure I’ll skip the newer releases for a bit and stick with the ZS7 and CCA16, it’s the sweet spot for me I think until they come out with ZS25 and CCA30...in the other hand ZSX looks interesting...


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Miki811 said:


> But how is the AS10 compared to the ZS10 Pro?


I don't like ZS10 Pro, except for electronic music. Their heights aren't complete somehow. AS10 are well tuned for maybe every music


----------



## Coldheart29

Hey guys, i'm thinking of getting some kz foam tips.
The blue ones ar the size M, right?


----------



## Assimilator702

lgcubana said:


> *ZS7*
> 15 hrs. in: Flopped back to the New Bee/RIYO tips.  The Tin HiFi, blue tips (which allowed a slightly deeper seating) were making the vocals a little (ironically) tinny


Try the NiceHCK translucent grey/red core tips that most everyone sells for less than $1 for a set of six. Basically whoever is selling them puts their name. They look like he tips that TFZ packages with their iems but have a slightly larger opening and a rounder corner profile. I’ve categorized all my tips, measured the bores, taken note of the corner profiles and these tips for me are one of the best if not THE BEST tips available. Every set I’ve tried them on sounded good while certain tips like the famous Sony Hybrid could make the treble siblant due to the smaller hole. When certain tips like a TRN which are also very nice didn’t give me a good seal these tips gave me a seal in the Medium and Large size. The bore size seems to control sets with excessive treble but not restrict the treble that are just right for me. Bass is always preserved.

While my go to tips were always Sony Hybrids these are my go-to tips now and I stock up every time I place an order on AE. The TRN Black or Whites are also nice and very similar but have a slightly different sized opening and outer profile.


----------



## lgcubana

archdawg said:


> That fast, dry bad-@ss (sub-)bass and the speed/coherence of the 7 vs. the 10Pro, pretty obvious with fast bass and other transients like in this little tune below (and pretty much the rest of that album) - huge differences in spatial reproduction as well. Just a couple months with the 7 and they basically spoiled me for anything slower, less deep and less coherent - YMMV.





KimChee said:


> ZS7 sounds really good, I think you’ll like them.  I think they sound as good or better than my UE TF10 that I had made into a custom.





courierdriver said:


> Yeah, nice choice. I agree...the ES100 should work great with the ZS7. Do try to make use of that 2.5 balanced out. I have found balanced almost always sounds better than 3.5. Let us all know what you think about the ZS7, when you get them, and have had a chance to evaluate with your new cable.



I'm sure I missed a few, but thanks for steering me towards the ZS7
They're a fun setup, without any fatigue, at higher volume,
with an assist from the ES100


----------



## Coldheart29

Coldheart29 said:


> Hey guys, i'm thinking of getting some kz foam tips.
> The blue ones ar the size M, right?



Ok, looking ar the description on AE it looks like they're a universal size. So, at this point the question is, is there any difference between the different colors, or is it itst an aesthetical thing?


----------



## pcpeasant

Can anyone suggest the best pair of KZ earphones under 20 dollars for rock (Rush, Green day, The Beatles, RHCP etc)?


----------



## nraymond

Does anyone have both the KZ ZS7 and the CCA C10 and can offer a comparison? ThePhonograph.net's review of the C10 talks about how similar they are. Their graphs indicate some differences in treble response, while the bass doesn't look that different, but they suggest the ZS7 is for those who want more bass than the C10 offers. Does that observation hold out for most people, and are there noticable differences in treble response as well?


----------



## megapowa

nraymond said:


> Does anyone have both the KZ ZS7 and the CCA C10 and can offer a comparison? ThePhonograph.net's review of the C10 talks about how similar they are. Their graphs indicate some differences in treble response, while the bass doesn't look that different, but they suggest the ZS7 is for those who want more bass than the C10 offers. Does that observation hold out for most people, and are there noticable differences in treble response as well?


I can confirm that the zs7 is a bass cannon.


----------



## pbui44

I received a PM this morning regarding the new KB Ear Audio impressions thread, so those who also own KB Ear stuff with your KZs should check it out:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kb-ear-audio-impressions-thread.912673/


----------



## KimChee

The 7 treble is a bit rolled off, ZS7 has a deep sub bass rumble with good texture, if you cable it it greatly increases soundstage detail and separation



nraymond said:


> Does anyone have both the KZ ZS7 and the CCA C10 and can offer a comparison? ThePhonograph.net's review of the C10 talks about how similar they are. Their graphs indicate some differences in treble response, while the bass doesn't look that different, but they suggest the ZS7 is for those who want more bass than the C10 offers. Does that observation hold out for most people, and are there noticable differences in treble response as well?


----------



## KimChee

Cable 130?



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Since the KZ 8 Core Silver A Cable for the ZS7 seems to be gonzo. Do you guys have a second choice?


----------



## SinisterDev

What is this Cable 130 I keep seeing people mentioning? I was trying to find a link or something for it...


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

pcpeasant said:


> Can anyone suggest the best pair of KZ earphones under 20 dollars for rock (Rush, Green day, The Beatles, RHCP etc)?



KZ ED9 (filters allow you to tweak sound per your liking) and ZSN/ZSN Pro


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

KimChee said:


> Cable 130?


You should post a link to cable 130 because I don't know what that is.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Does anyone know a good cable for the ZS6 v2? 

I just realized I have been confusing cable microphonics with the music I thought I was listening to!


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Does anyone know a good cable for the ZS6 v2?
> 
> I just realized I have been confusing cable microphonics with the music I thought I was listening to!



Just get trn bt20s no more microphonic


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

voicemaster said:


> Just get trn bt20s no more microphonic


I don't use bluetooth or wifi to listen to music. Only wired cables.


----------



## darmanastartes

SinisterDev said:


> What is this Cable 130 I keep seeing people mentioning? I was trying to find a link or something for it...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952865240.html


----------



## toji

Can someone give me a suggestion for a good kz iem
I listened to all kinds of music like pop, rock, jpop, kpop.


----------



## Slater (Aug 14, 2019)

toji said:


> Can someone give me a suggestion for a good kz iem
> I listened to all kinds of music like pop, rock, jpop, kpop.



Since you didn’t give a budget, I’ll put my favorite choices from cheapest to most expensive:

EDR1
ED9
ZSN
ZSN Pro
ZS7
CCA C10
ZS10 Pro

Be aware that there’s many other good choices besides KZ though. BQEYZ makes great IEMs, such as the KB100. And there’s loads of other brands too.


----------



## nxnje

toji said:


> Can someone give me a suggestion for a good kz iem
> I listened to all kinds of music like pop, rock, jpop, kpop.


It depends on how much do you wanna spend.
I have EDR1, ED9, ZSN PRO, ZS10 PRO, ZS7, and had ZS3 and ZS6 as well in the past.
In my KZ's collection, if you want a good all-rounder, i would go with EDR1, ED9, ZSN Pro or ZS10 Pro.
Edr1 is v-shaped but for 3 euros you get monster value. I use them very often even if i have more expensive stuff in my collection. 
Ed9 is another killer value IEM, and has two filters that you can even mod and try more combinations: ed9 have good soundstage, good bass and does everything well for the price.
ZSN Pro and ZS10 Pro are similar in terms of signature but the ZSN Pro has more emphasis in the highs which could be a bit more fatiguing, while ZS10 Pro does everything better with a perfect all-rounder signature.
ZS7 is terrific, moreover if you buy a silver upgrade cable: super soundstage, monstrous sub-bass... but their tonality and V-shape make them a little difficult to be recommended as an allrounder.

If i were you, i would go with the ZS10 Pro.

Be aware that there are many other brands that make very good earphones as well, KZ is not the only one that makes cheap-but-good stuff.

PS: whatever will be your final decision, make yourself a super gift: buy a pair of EDR1.
You won't find anything like that in the market for that price.. they're my best buy ever.


----------



## citral23

This stories of upgrade cables improving soundstage always crack me up lol

Electrons be like "guys, guys! It's a silver cable we're traveling. Let's honor it and reorganize ourselves to widen the soundstage!"


----------



## Slater (Aug 14, 2019)

citral23 said:


> This stories of upgrade cables improving soundstage always crack me up lol
> 
> Electrons be like "guys, guys! It's a silver cable we're traveling. Let's honor it and reorganize ourselves to widen the soundstage!"



You’ve obviously never heard of the Magic of Mpingo:

http://www.shunmook.com/text1.htm

All you do is set the magic discs on top of your source or speakers, and “_listen for the wonderful changes_”. You can even put them on the floor and it makes the soundstage wider!

It’s patented, so it has to work!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

darmanastartes said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32952865240.html


Wow, it's $90 in my country.


----------



## Nimweth (Aug 14, 2019)

Slater said:


> You’ve obviously never heard of the Magic of Mpingo:
> 
> http://www.shunmook.com/text1.htm
> 
> ...


Does anyone remember Peter Belt and his electrostatic foils which purported to do the same thing? The only improvement these type of things make is to concentrate your attention. You listen more closely for any changes and hear more details. It's psychology.


----------



## Coldheart29

citral23 said:


> This stories of upgrade cables improving soundstage always crack me up lol
> 
> Electrons be like "guys, guys! It's a silver cable we're traveling. Let's honor it and reorganize ourselves to widen the soundstage!"


Well, if your stock cable is crappy enought have tens of ohms of resistance, an aftermarket one might in fact improve the sound of your earphones :V


----------



## citral23

Coldheart29 said:


> Well, if your stock cable is ****ty enought have tens of ohms of resistance, an aftermarket one might in fact improve the sound of your earphones :V



There is 0 rationale to support this. An upgrade cable looks nicer, feels nicer, and is generally a nice thing to have, especially if the stock is as horrible as the browny tangly KZ. 

It might have less microphonics and that's about it. It's literally impossible from a science pov that it improves soundstage, makes the sound "full bodied", let alone "pulls out the upper-frequency details and clarity while keeping the sound characteristics all familiar and original". 

Even if it would, in fantasy land, it would be impossible to discern, because audio memory lasts about 4 seconds so you can't swap that fast to immediately compare.

In the end it's fairly safe to assume that electrons have no feelings, sorry.


----------



## Coldheart29

citral23 said:


> There is 0 rationale to support this. An upgrade cable looks nicer, feels nicer, and is generally a nice thing to have, especially if the stock is as horrible as the browny tangly KZ.
> 
> It might have less microphonics and that's about it. It's literally impossible from a science pov that it improves soundstage, makes the sound "full bodied", let alone "pulls out the upper-frequency details and clarity while keeping the sound characteristics all familiar and original".
> 
> ...



Then what about the general consensus that high impedance (yeah, sorry, that's what i meant in the last post, not resistance) outputs are generally bad for low impedance iems, (i think that's mostly about multi BA ones with crossovers tho)? I guess that a high impedance cable would have the same negative effects.

Of course any decent cable wouldn't have such issues, and i'm the first one that would "upgrade" a cable only for a matter of looks or comfort, but in those rare cases that an earphone might come with a real crappy cable, i'd bet it would make some difference.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 14, 2019)

A user on headfi thinks the new "gold" upgrade cable ruins the sound of his AS16. He says some of these cables aren't made for all KZ models.

Speaking of sound, I find the silver ZSN cable artificial sounding and not natural, as I like.

I walked by a couple guys busking today and they took my attention away from the ZSN and made it sound bad. If an iem can't compete with a couple guys singing on a street corner I am staying away from it.

Live music will never be as good as a recording but hey, these headphones are supposed to mimic it well.


----------



## hakuzen

citral23 said:


> There is 0 rationale to support this. An upgrade cable looks nicer, feels nicer, and is generally a nice thing to have, especially if the stock is as horrible as the browny tangly KZ.
> 
> It might have less microphonics and that's about it. It's literally impossible from a science pov that it improves soundstage, makes the sound "full bodied", let alone "pulls out the upper-frequency details and clarity while keeping the sound characteristics all familiar and original".
> 
> ...


you are lucky, you save lot of money..


----------



## loomisjohnson

You nailed it


nxnje said:


> It depends on how much do you wanna spend.
> I have EDR1, ED9, ZSN PRO, ZS10 PRO, ZS7, and had ZS3 and ZS6 as well in the past.
> In my KZ's collection, if you want a good all-rounder, i would go with EDR1, ED9, ZSN Pro or ZS10 Pro.
> Edr1 is v-shaped but for 3 euros you get monster value. I use them very often even if i have more expensive stuff in my collection.
> ...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

It's interesting how the ZSN silver upgrade cable makes the Black ZSN sound bad. The music sounds artificial and fake.

I'm back to the stock cable again, let's see how this goes...


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Since you didn’t give a budget, I’ll put my favorite choices from cheapest to most expensive:
> 
> EDR1
> ED9
> ...


Plus 1 for ZS10 PRO. They are coming down in price on Aliexpress. Absolutely crazy fun sounding! They sound great straight outta the box, with the stock tips too. Stock cable leaves a bit to be desired, but overall sound of this set is superb. It only gets better when you roll tips and cables. My favorite daily driver right now.


----------



## SinisterDev

Ah! I looked into the cable 130 and researched "single crystal" cables in general, since I kept seeing the term used in a bunch of high end cables. From a scientific perspective a cable made of a monocrystaline structure sounds pretty fascinating! I can see why many of them are so pricey, especially ones made of pure silver. Really interesting. I'd love to hear the difference. Maybe someday..


----------



## DynamicEars (Aug 15, 2019)

toji said:


> Can someone give me a suggestion for a good kz iem
> I listened to all kinds of music like pop, rock, jpop, kpop.



read @Slater and @nxnje suggestions below, i just want to add more things.



Slater said:


> Since you didn’t give a budget, I’ll put my favorite choices from cheapest to most expensive:
> 
> EDR1
> ED9
> ...



Agree with super helpful man @Slater here, I would suggest KZ released after ZSN Pro, because previous KZs for J-pop especially for female vocal, have tendency to be shouty at 3khz peak. I can confirm from ZSN pro (or C10 actually) they have tamed down the 3khz peak
all ZSN pro, C10, ZS10 pro are safe for female vocal jpop. I have those KZs except ZS7 and EDR1.

And since @Slater talked about BQEYZ KB100, they are on ZS10 Pro level, with some pros and cons, for tonality i prefer KB100, more natural than a bit "steely" BAs from ZS10 Pro, but at complex tracks, ZS10 Pro handles better. Sub bass better on ZS10 Pro than KB100. Trebles on KB100 way more smooth and not tiring but ZS10 Pro has more extension on high end.
Soundstage on ZS10 Pro is wider, but KB100 is deeper with great imaging

So I cant say which one is better from the two, but for me tonality is important factor so I would pick KB100 over ZS10, but again remember its just personal preference.

*edited : just realized I wrote all ZS10 without "Pro" word behind, it will make wrong perception. Yes I was talking about ZS10 Pro version which are very different from old ZS10. All corrected and added soundstage comparison



nxnje said:


> It depends on how much do you wanna spend.
> I have EDR1, ED9, ZSN PRO, ZS10 PRO, ZS7, and had ZS3 and ZS6 as well in the past.
> In my KZ's collection, if you want a good all-rounder, i would go with EDR1, ED9, ZSN Pro or ZS10 Pro.
> Edr1 is v-shaped but for 3 euros you get monster value. I use them very often even if i have more expensive stuff in my collection.
> ...



Good advice from @nxnje too.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A user on headfi thinks the new "gold" upgrade cable ruins the sound of his AS16. He says some of these cables aren't made for all KZ models.
> 
> Speaking of sound, I find the silver ZSN cable artificial sounding and not natural, as I like.


I agree with you and the user. These cheap "silver",  "silver/gold" or mixed cables destroy soundstage (maybe they add some scary layer or harmony into the sound). Instruments aren't placed on the spot, but stretched into my head. It's not natural for me also.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 15, 2019)

Coldheart29 said:


> Then what about the general consensus that high impedance (yeah, sorry, that's what i meant in the last post, not resistance) outputs are generally bad for low impedance iems, (i think that's mostly about multi BA ones with crossovers tho)? I guess that a high impedance cable would have the same negative effects.
> 
> Of course any decent cable wouldn't have such issues, and i'm the first one that would "upgrade" a cable only for a matter of looks or comfort, but in those rare cases that an earphone might come with a real ****ty cable, i'd bet it would make some difference.



No because the cable adds to your IEM impedance. If you had a high Z output, it would even be beneficial to have a high Z cable then, to reduce the mismatch.

The benefit of low Z is that it's easy to drive from a phone or whatever low output device, it has little to do with sound.

The main factor of how a set sound is how air is moved by the membranes of your DD/BAs. The electricity that reaches them travels the same way through copper, silver or stainless steel, electrons don't reorganize themselves depending on the cable they travel to make music sound different, it's scientifically impossible.

It's just common sense vs narratives.


----------



## Slater (Aug 15, 2019)

citral23 said:


> The electricity that reaches them travels the same way through copper, silver or stainless steel, electrons don't reorganize themselves depending on the cable they travel to make music sound different, it's scientifically impossible.



Diamond cables sound the best:


----------



## citral23

Ah yes, they make the bass sound rich and the trebles shiny. The soundstage takes that exquisite diamond shape, too, that even gold cables can't reproduce.


----------



## nraymond

citral23 said:


> Ah yes, they make the bass sound rich and the trebles shiny. The soundstage takes that exquisite diamond shape, too, that even gold cables can't reproduce.



And when your diamond-covered cables start to wear down, you can strip off the insulation and then tie them together and use them as kite string and battle other kites, as an alternative to the glass-shard covered kite strings. Diamond is stronger, so you should be able to dominate your kite battles!


----------



## Caipirina

These look kinda sweeeeet ...  and I've seen the ZSX mentioned here before, but this is the first time I see a picture ... 

But I am putting myself on a time out for now, until I actually really listened to all the KZs I bought over the summer and totally neglected over TWS


----------



## KipNix

Slater said:


> You’ve obviously never heard of the Magic of Mpingo


 I think those were used in the Turbo Encabulator, too.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Caipirina said:


> These look kinda sweeeeet ...  and I've seen the ZSX mentioned here before, but this is the first time I see a picture ...
> 
> But I am putting myself on a time out for now, until I actually really listened to all the KZs I bought over the summer and totally neglected over TWS



Has anyone pointed out that KZ clearly specifies the number of drivers is per side? Good job KZ. Now people won't be as easily confused.


----------



## Coldheart29 (Aug 15, 2019)

citral23 said:


> No because the cable adds to your IEM impedance. If you had a high Z output, it would even be beneficial to have a high Z cable then, to reduce the mismatch.
> 
> The benefit of low Z is that it's easy to drive from a phone or whatever low output device, it has little to do with sound.



In general, yes, that's the case, but i'm actually not sure that stands true for crossovered earphones (the ones with passive crossovers at least, dunno if there's any iem with active crossovers).
I'm no electrical engineer, but a couples years back i rembember researching the matter a bit, and as far as i remember the conclusion is that because of the way passive crossovers work, the llwest the inpedance leading to their imput, the better they work.

Again, i'm no electrical engineer, i only had 1 electrical engineering exam in my course at uni, and it butwas a while ago, so i might have some things mixed up, but i remember reaching this conclusion back then.



Slater said:


> Diamond cables sound the best:



Wait what, diamond cables? Now that's something new to me.
Well, at least they must be really shiny


----------



## youngarthur

Well..... KZ buds worked well first time.(20 Minutes) Second time, would not connect to each other, but problem solved after dispute with KZ. Now third time of use, the buds won't connect to each other. Have opened dispute again!. Other buds I have, work flawlessly, so I do know what I am doing.


----------



## Caipirina

B9Scrambler said:


> Has anyone pointed out that KZ clearly specifies the number of drivers is per side? Good job KZ. Now people won't be as easily confused.



Well, actually their choice of words initially very much confused me ... 

"what? there's only stuff on one side? What about the other side" ?   

'One sided' is not the best way to describe it, but by now I should be used to Chinglish enough (also, only took me about a minute  )


----------



## assassin10000

Coldheart29 said:


> Wait what, diamond cables? Now that's something new to me.
> Well, at least they must be really shiny



Also good for jail breakouts to saw through those pesky bars.


----------



## Coldheart29 (Aug 15, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Also good for jail breakouts to saw through those pesky bars.


Well, you know, i'm a goldsmith, i'm actually thinking at how i could use something like these diamond cables in jewellery xD

Edit: oh wait, those are just normal cutting diamond cables, not actual "diamond cables", aren't they?
Well, now i feel dumb xD


----------



## Slater (Aug 15, 2019)

Coldheart29 said:


> Well, you know, i'm a goldsmith, i'm actually thinking at how i could use something like these diamond cables in jewellery xD
> 
> Edit: oh wait, those are just normal cutting diamond cables, not actual "diamond cables", aren't they?
> Well, now i feel dumb xD



Yeah, I was just joking around. They’re just diamond sawing cables.

But real diamond/copper conductive nanometer-scale wire does actually exist:

https://qz.com/872050/thinnest-wire-ever-diamond-coating/amp/


----------



## B9Scrambler

Caipirina said:


> Well, actually their choice of words initially very much confused me ...
> 
> "what? there's only stuff on one side? What about the other side" ?
> 
> 'One sided' is not the best way to describe it, but by now I should be used to Chinglish enough (also, only took me about a minute  )



... no comment.


----------



## Coldheart29

Slater said:


> Yeah, I was just joking around. They’re just diamond sawing cables.
> 
> But real diamond/copper conductive nanometer-scale wire does actually exist:
> 
> https://qz.com/872050/thinnest-wire-ever-diamond-coating/amp/



Eh, i got totally wooshed there.

Getting back in topic, what's the smoothest sounding sub 50$ KZ iem?


----------



## chinmie

haven't been around this thread in the longest of time... what's currently the best sounding KZ iems (not factoring the price and sound preference)? I've seen AS10, ZS7, and ZS10 mentioned in other threads.. are they currently the top tier /favored in terms of sound quality from KZ?


----------



## nxnje

loomisjohnson said:


> You nailed it


Why?


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> Since you didn’t give a budget, I’ll put my favorite choices from cheapest to most expensive:
> 
> EDR1
> ED9
> ...



KZ ZS10 Pro is less than $30 on ebay shipped
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-ZS10Pro...var=542198270055&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


----------



## macky112

chinmie said:


> haven't been around this thread in the longest of time... what's currently the best sounding KZ iems (not factoring the price and sound preference)? I've seen AS10, ZS7, and ZS10 mentioned in other threads.. are they currently the top tier /favored in terms of sound quality from KZ?



ZS10 Pro is the latest consensus!


----------



## macky112

Caipirina said:


> These look kinda sweeeeet ...  and I've seen the ZSX mentioned here before, but this is the first time I see a picture ...
> 
> But I am putting myself on a time out for now, until I actually really listened to all the KZs I bought over the summer and totally neglected over TWS



uh oh, 5BA per side in a ZS series?  my ZS7 and ZS10 Pro's gonna be obsolete, GG...


----------



## nxnje

citral23 said:


> This stories of upgrade cables improving soundstage always crack me up lol
> 
> Electrons be like "guys, guys! It's a silver cable we're traveling. Let's honor it and reorganize ourselves to widen the soundstage!"



I have to admit i used to think just like you.
I've received by a seller a brand new upgrade silver cable.
I've put it on my ZS7 and i clearly heard a sort of emphasis in the upper end with more air and sparkle, and that makes you feel like the soundstage just get a little bit expansive.

That's not about hearing something that is not audible. That's not because the silver cable is thousand times better than the stock one.
That just means 2 things:
1. Stock cable sucks a lot
2. Silver is a better conductor and high end is the first thing that get a sort of benefit in that sense. Speaking about soundstage, air and sparkle are given by the upper end, so if you gain something in that area then you could have the impression that stage just widens a bit.
This is my 2$ after trying a silver cable on 10 IEMs and getting a noticeable improvement just in one case (ZS7, which i like even more now).


----------



## nxnje

macky112 said:


> ZS10 Pro is the latest consensus!



There are no besties, everything is very subjective.
If i have to be honest, i cannot decide between ZS10 Pro and ZS7 for my tastes.
In this case i just do one thing: i leave both on my desk and take my EDR1 with me


----------



## MacAttack7

How is the size of the KZ ZS10 Pro compared to the KZ ED16?
I own the ED16, but it's too bulky for my small ears.


----------



## Miki811

Just received my ZS10 Pro and the very first thing I noticed is how small this is compared to the ZS10! Small enough that I'm not sure if the fit would be right! Then, I connected the cables, and tried it. I was correct. The fit was weird. The insertion was deep, and I mean real deep compared to ZS10 (reminded me of ZS3 when I first used it). It was deep that the default tips and my CP145's are not sealing well. Ended up using my foams to ensure a good seal.

Then, the moment of truth: SOUND. I apologize but I'm not really good at articulating what I hear, but here it goes.
The very first thing I that popped into my mind upon using it with my Zishan Z1, (verbatim) "Woah. It's hella thin". The first music I played with it was "Eye of God" by Erra. But then, as the song progresses, the "Impressed" part began creeping in. I played it 2-3 more times. Details were better, everything was more balanced compared to the ZS10. The side tombs that keeps popping on the right earphone is more noticeable and sounded better and tighter without the bass and congestion, and complication of the music hovering over it. After a good hour of listening, tried to go back to ZS10 and just realized how "thicc" it sounded. It felt like a bass cannon now, and sounded muddy all of the sudden. Details are there, but I dunno. Then I thought, this must be due to a more controlled bass and less bass bleed on the ZS10 Pro. After some more listening, I began to appreciate it's "clearness" more. It's so clear compared to the ZS10 that I get goosebumps more frequently. It's like everything is more controlled, precise, and balanced. I'm able to appreciate Joseph Arrington (A Lot Like Birds, Sianvar, Royal Coda) and Matt Garstka's (Animals as Leaders) drumwork a lot more, as well as Vladislav Ulasevich's (Jinjer) version of Pisces.

This definitely isn't for those who likes elevated bass. It's deep and has good impact and rumble when needed, but I don't think it would meet basshead standards without any EQ. You also can't say this is an upgraded ZS10. It's a completely different beast.

I really love how this sounds! The only gripe I have is the fit (YMMV). ZS10 fits better for me, but then again, my ear must have been used to it's size. It's too deep that it's not able to create a good seal non-foams for my ears. Using foams definitely fixes this for me, but I'll try to make use of the CP145 since I like how "direct" it sounds.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 16, 2019)

Which KZ's do you like with the Gold Silver Upgrade Cable? I just got mine!

Speaking of IEM's... Why do some people push the EDR1? The ES4 is a much better model and it's $12USD right now.


----------



## Miki811

Found the perfect tip for my ZS10 Pro! Gives me the same "direct" sound due to its hollow/wide bore/nozzle. Used the largest one below.


----------



## feeble

This is a noob question, but i have old pairs of ED9/ATRs that i haven't used in about 2 years, but the cables have become sticky. Its happened to a few other chi-fi IEMs after not being using for many months. Why does this happen? Should i spray Goo Gone on the cable?


----------



## archdawg

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Speaking of IEM's... Why do some people push the EDR1? The ES4 is a much better model and it's $12USD right now.


Maybe because the EDR1 delivers some of the best bang for the buck in the audio universe, has some seriously rumbling deep-bass and sounds really decent with a bit of EQing and even better on a nice DAC/amp. Deeply inserted (ETY style) they have some of the best insulation of any IEM in my ever growing stash - I use mine on the nerve wrecking local transport and they rock me just fine.
As to the $12 ES4, in that price range I prefer the ZSN but even though both are technically better phones in many regards the EDR1 beat them with better coherency, insulation and to me good ol' listening fun - YMMV, as usual.


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which KZ's do you like with the Gold Silver Upgrade Cable? I just got mine!
> 
> Speaking of IEM's... Why do some people push the EDR1? The ES4 is a much better model and it's $12USD right now.



Why do some people push the ES4? The ZS10 Pro is a much better model and it's $40USD right now.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

chinmie said:


> haven't been around this thread in the longest of time... what's currently the best sounding KZ iems (not factoring the price and sound preference)? I've seen AS10, ZS7, and ZS10 mentioned in other threads.. are they currently the top tier /favored in terms of sound quality from KZ?


BA10 and AS12 imho


----------



## SinisterDev

Miki811 said:


> Found the perfect tip for my ZS10 Pro! Gives me the same "direct" sound due to its hollow/wide bore/nozzle. Used the largest one below.



Nice! I just saw those on Aliexpress the other day. I actually bought this kit off Amazon.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787VLNBG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title these Tennmak Whirlwind tips. They look exactly like those KZ ones and come in a really nice case that I'm using to store my ZS10 Pros now!

Also I figured I'd give you a tip that's working great for me. I took some spare o-rings that I had from a set of mechanical keyboard dampners. They're 5mm Inner diameter, and 1.5mm width. I put one onto each tip of the ZS10 and then put the Whirlwind tips on after them. It works like a spacer so that there's some more room inside the silicone tip between your ear canal and the metal filter on the monitor. It'll help keep that filter cleaner. And I actually really like the way it fits now. Quite comfortable. I'm liking these wide bore tips!

Including some pics.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 16, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> Why do some people push the ES4? The ZS10 Pro is a much better model and it's $40USD right now.


I don't know about you but I've owned 15 KZ models. Unless something super special comes around I wont buy another for 6 months.

What's the price difference between the EDR1 and ES4? Not much. You are saying like everyone else to buy the ZS10 Pro. If you see my signature I am happy with what I have right now.

The ZS10 Pro "might" be the best buy for a newbie but the ES4 and EDR1 are better choices for someone who is frugal and cautious.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't know about you but I've owned 15 KZ models. Unless something super special comes around I wont buy another for 6 months....


This time I will also wait for a review of ZSX before I order them. Maybe


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I don't know about you but I've owned 15 KZ models. Unless something super special comes around I wont buy another for 6 months.
> 
> What's the price difference between the EDR1 and ES4? Not much. You are saying like everyone else to buy the ZS10 Pro. If you see my signature I am happy with what I have right now.
> 
> The ZS10 Pro "might" be the best buy for a newbie but the ES4 and EDR1 are better choices for someone who is frugal and cautious.




II wouldn't call "more than double the price" as "mot much difference"... as I tried to illustrate on the ES4/ZS10 Pro analogy.

They arent comparable, and as said before, the ES4 isnt even the best KZ choice at its pricepoint anymore.


----------



## Miki811

SinisterDev said:


> Nice! I just saw those on Aliexpress the other day. I actually bought this kit off Amazon.
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787VLNBG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title these Tennmak Whirlwind tips. They look exactly like those KZ ones and come in a really nice case that I'm using to store my ZS10 Pros now!
> 
> Also I figured I'd give you a tip that's working great for me. I took some spare o-rings that I had from a set of mechanical keyboard dampners. They're 5mm Inner diameter, and 1.5mm width. I put one onto each tip of the ZS10 and then put the Whirlwind tips on after them. It works like a spacer so that there's some more room inside the silicone tip between your ear canal and the metal filter on the monitor. It'll help keep that filter cleaner. And I actually really like the way it fits now. Quite comfortable. I'm liking these wide bore tips!
> ...


Those o-rings are genius! That's one thing I noticed when using the whrilwinds. When removing the iem, there's always that space as if the tip is going to get pulled out. So basically, it's secure but loose, if you know what I mean. Might look for those o-rings soon.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Caipirina said:


> These look kinda sweeeeet ...  and I've seen the ZSX mentioned here before, but this is the first time I see a picture ...
> 
> But I am putting myself on a time out for now, until I actually really listened to all the KZs I bought over the summer and totally neglected over TWS



What will be the first ... and better? KZ ZSX or CCA C12?


----------



## KevDzn

xxAMAROKxx said:


> What will be the first ... and better? KZ ZSX or CCA C12?



Fingers crossed hopping they don't sound the same.


----------



## Nimweth

Does anyone know the driver complement of the new ZSX? I would like to see 1DD (the new Tesla type), 2x29689 mid BAs, 1x31005 mid/high (as in the ZS7) and 2 x 31736 for the treble. I would like ZS7 sub-bass, no mid bass hump and a softer more detailed treble than the ZS10 Pro. And will the CCA C12 be the same?  We shall see...


----------



## billbishere

i recently got a surprise with my KZ ZS10 Pros.  As you know they are a sensitive IEM and seem to be powered easy from pretty much anything.  I use them on my LGv30 with wide open DAC - and I usually never get past 50 on the volume, usually much less than that.  So I would not have thought giving them more power would change the sound.  Well, I connected them to my Topping D10 > Liquid Spark setup....  I was blown away about how much better they sounded.  Not louder but, actually better!  Things were much more dynamic, the bass hit harder and I wanna say faster as it just was better.  Then everything else seemed more transparent and airy, even less recessed on the upper mids.  I just would not have thought it would be that much difference since they were so sensitive and don't need a lot of volume to be "loud" on anything.


----------



## Tonymac136

I've not tried amping my "non-pro" (amateur?) ZS10 but I have had good results using my Blons and my Tin T2 with my Little Dots. As for my Sennheiser IE60, amped up is the only way they sound anywhere close to as expensive as all of my other IEMs combined. Straight from the phone they go plenty loud enough but they sound worse than my Blons and no better than my Tins or ZS10.


----------



## Coldheart29 (Aug 16, 2019)

Sooo, i'm at about the 150 hours mark on the ZSTs, and holy cow, i wasn't expecting such a big improvement with burning in.
The bump in the lower highs as been mostly tamed at this point, so much so that i can listen to them without any EQ "fixing" for long periods getting no fatigue at all, althought i'm keeping a -2db adjustment on the 4khz band just because i like it a bit more that way.
I think the bass has become a bit more elevated, too, and while that's a good thing, now on some songs the upper bass bleeds a little  in the mids (but just on a few traks/albums, so not a big deal).

I keep being more and more satisfied by these iems, and now i'm waiting for a pair of ZSR.
I fear i've fallen in the chifi rabbit hole, and i'm not sure if i like where it's leading my wallet


----------



## turbomustang84

I've only got the ZST and for the price it's great but I'm interested in their higher end models.
Any suggestions?


----------



## Slater

citral23 said:


> Just an advice for people new to the hobby : don't buy a 80$ cable for a 30$ KZ. Spend that money on better IEMs. Seriously.



At least this one has *free* shipping:


----------



## Tamirci

Slater said:


> At least this one has *free* shipping:


Yay! Lets stock these up while shipping is free ))


----------



## Tonymac136

That cable would make my ZS10 sound better, right?


----------



## macky112

macky112 said:


> uh oh, 5BA per side in a ZS series?  my ZS7 and ZS10 Pro's gonna be obsolete, GG...


I am secretly hoping ZSX has the ZS7 tuning for its DD+4BA but with that one extra BA balancing out the treble roll off... fingers crossed! of course i am all for more sub bass unz unz unz unz bahahaha!


----------



## macky112

nxnje said:


> There are no besties, everything is very subjective.
> If i have to be honest, i cannot decide between ZS10 Pro and ZS7 for my tastes.
> In this case i just do one thing: i leave both on my desk and take my EDR1 with me


I have two ZS7s and one ZS10 Pro, you know which is my favorite...

i am a bass head, but to be honest, if I listen to ZS10 Pro as the first IEM of the day, its bass is respectable, but that ZS7 sub bass tho...!


----------



## Mouseman

You think that will be $7,159 on 11/11? I think I want to wait for the big sale!


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> That cable would make my ZS10 sound better, right?



A $7000 cable may even be able to make _this_ sound better:


Spoiler: Music to my ears


----------



## Tonymac136

Blimey. Makes Daniel Johnston sound overproduced.


----------



## nxnje

macky112 said:


> I have two ZS7s and one ZS10 Pro, you know which is my favorite...
> 
> i am a bass head, but to be honest, if I listen to ZS10 Pro as the first IEM of the day, its bass is respectable, but that ZS7 sub bass tho...!


ZS10 Pro are superb imho, but i prefer ZS7 for personal use (mixed gaming and music)

I listen loads of heavy bass music (midtempo, Dubstep and so on), i feel you


----------



## Assimilator702

Nimweth said:


> Does anyone know the driver complement of the new ZSX? I would like to see 1DD (the new Tesla type), 2x29689 mid BAs, 1x31005 mid/high (as in the ZS7) and 2 x 31736 for the treble. I would like ZS7 sub-bass, no mid bass hump and a softer more detailed treble than the ZS10 Pro. And will the CCA C12 be the same?  We shall see...



Well I’d we look at the differences between the C10 and the ZS10 PRO there’s a very different tuning so I’m betting on the CCA and KZ brothers to have enough differences to warrant both models existing. Now which one will me you or the other guy prefer is the real question. I was expecting the KZ ZSX to be released by now considering when they announced it. It’s been more than a month. Hopefully KZ makes both models special and is out to show the rest of the Chi-Fi world who is the King Boss of the landscape.


----------



## Nimweth

Assimilator702 said:


> Well I’d we look at the differences between the C10 and the ZS10 PRO there’s a very different tuning so I’m betting on the CCA and KZ brothers to have enough differences to warrant both models existing. Now which one will me you or the other guy prefer is the real question. I was expecting the KZ ZSX to be released by now considering when they announced it. It’s been more than a month. Hopefully KZ makes both models special and is out to show the rest of the Chi-Fi world who is the King Boss of the landscape.


Yes, I agree. The ZS10 Pro and C10 are very different. The ZS7 is different again. I think KZ could improve on the venerable 30095 treble BA in the new model and I think a BA to fill in between the 29689 and treble units would be a good idea to narrow the range covered by the other BAs and help them operate in their best zones. I would expect that judging on what has gone before that the KZ will be more V-shaped and the CCA will adopt a more neutral tuning.


----------



## Nimweth

Tonymac136 said:


> I've not tried amping my "non-pro" (amateur?) ZS10 but I have had good results using my Blons and my Tin T2 with my Little Dots. As for my Sennheiser IE60, amped up is the only way they sound anywhere close to as expensive as all of my other IEMs combined. Straight from the phone they go plenty loud enough but they sound worse than my Blons and no better than my Tins or ZS10.


I find the BLON BL-03 really benefits from a bit of extra power. It brings out that superb speed the  BLONs have and tightens things up.


----------



## auraldesire95

I have the ZST Pro and ZSN (non-Pro) and I'm eager to purchase another KZ earphone. What would you all consider to be the best value earphone as of now?


----------



## Coldheart29

Hey guys, i was wondering, what's the difference among the various kz lines?
Like, does each line (zs, ba, as) target a different kind of sign signature?

Also, how do cca iems compare to kz on average? Smoother? Brighter? Bassier? More or less detailed?


----------



## macky112

auraldesire95 said:


> I have the ZST Pro and ZSN (non-Pro) and I'm eager to purchase another KZ earphone. What would you all consider to be the best value earphone as of now?


I would suggest reading @Slater and @nxnje posts on page 3109 of this thread


----------



## Slater (Aug 16, 2019)

Coldheart29 said:


> Hey guys, i was wondering, what's the difference among the various kz lines?
> Like, does each line (zs, ba, as) target a different kind of sign signature?
> 
> Also, how do cca iems compare to kz on average? Smoother? Brighter? Bassier? More or less detailed?



They used to do that - HDS line had a different sound than ZSx line, EDx line had a different sound than ATx, etc.

They don’t really do that anymore that I’ve seen.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> A $7000 cable may even be able to make _this_ sound better:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Music to my ears




My Foot Foot Is a classic that will stand the test of time and be enjoyed by millions for eternity. The way they moved thru differant time signatures is mind bending. Love the chord work and those key changes are insane also. Good stuff.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Shaggs torturing Americans to this day, wonderful


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> The Shaggs torturing Americans to this day, wonderful



They were so ahead of their time, that no one was even in time (or key) lol


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> A $7000 cable may even be able to make _this_ sound better:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Music to my ears




next level of progressive music right here


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Seriously. Some future culture is going to crap themselves when they happen upon the shaggs. There will be courses taught at university dissecting the sheer genus of them. KZ will have a special Shaggs edition 10 driver IEM at the insane low price of $28,000.


----------



## SinisterDev

xxAMAROKxx said:


> What will be the first ... and better? KZ ZSX or CCA C12?


Those DO look really nice! I like the brushed metal look.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 16, 2019)

Delete


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 17, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> They arent comparable, and as said before, the ES4 isnt even the best KZ choice at its pricepoint anymore.


Which model do you think is the best at $15?

I like the ES4 better than the ZSN as it sounds natural and life-like and the bass is slammin' with the BA10 cable.

I'm currently using the BA10 cable on the ES4 and it sounds pretty great to me. I'm trying the ZSN Copper on it next and those cables on the ZS10 after that.


----------



## Makahl

xxAMAROKxx said:


> What will be the first ... and better? KZ ZSX or CCA C12?



At least design-wise the ZSX's faceplate looks much better IMO.


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> At least this one has *free* shipping:



No thanks... single crystal copper gold plating is known to create a sibilant 7k spike.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

I received the KZ EDR1 today after forgetting I ordered it over 2 months ago. OOTB, vocals are recessed and highs aren't too detailed, but wow is that bass big even if it decays sort of quickly. I suppose this signature would be considered "dark", roughly? The fit for me is surprisingly snug and reminds me a little of the KZ ZS3, which is a compliment if we're talking about isolation. It really isn't bad at all considering I paid a little less than $5 CDN and imo it slightly beats the Nicehck EP10 in mids and highs and about matches it in bass.


----------



## auraldesire95

Between the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro, which is better?


----------



## baskingshark

auraldesire95 said:


> Between the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro, which is better?



The ZS10 has a darker signature and is more V shaped. Bass is of greater quantity but muddier with a mid bass bleed. Soundstage is wider than ZS10 Pro and treble a bit more natural sounding on the ZS10. The fit and size of the original ZS10 is an issue for a lot of my friends.

The Pro otherwise is brighter with lesser recessed mids. And the Pro has better clarity, instrument separation, details and comfort/fit.

They are very different sounding, so depends on your preference. But I would say for an allrounder with better technicalities, go for the Pro.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

KZ says this is the 8 core braided for the ZS7. Isn't this the B cable and not the A cable they had before?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32860944411.html


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

auraldesire95 said:


> Between the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro, which is better?


The ZS10 is great for rock music.


----------



## coflaes

Zs10 pro is waaaaay better than zs10, dont trust people that only buy cheap crap, the diference in money is not that much. Zs7 and zs10 pro are the best kzs yet.


----------



## KimChee

I wish both companies would consolidate their lines and focus on iems that are a bigger upgrade. Not that I don’t enjoy the every few months releases, but they seem to be more sidegrades and I’m trying not to own 10 of these things...


----------



## Coldheart29 (Aug 17, 2019)

Slater said:


> They used to do that - HDS line had a different sound than ZSx line, EDx line had a different sound than ATx, etc.
> 
> They don’t really do that anymore that I’ve seen.


Hm, in that case i guess the question should be, how do the as06, zs10 pro and zs7 actually compare to each other?
From what i've gathered, the zs7 is bassier than the the zs10 pro, while the zs10 pro is more detailed. But i'm not really sure of which one is the smoother sounding, and of how the as06 compares to them(i think the as06 has a less fatiguing tuning than the as10?).


----------



## citral23 (Aug 17, 2019)

The ZS10 pro has more treble than the ZS7. Some call it more detailed because of that.

The ZS10 pro is more congested than the ZS7 (despite the stronger ZS7 bass). It has almost no soundstage at all. Mids  are overly recessed. I find it increasingly hard to listen to, moreso after spending more time with my KPE and KB100 lately. Still trying as I somehow want to like it but....

I think it sucks in fact. Unnatural, congested, "in your head", fatiguing sound. The added treble doesn't bring any air to it.

Still like the ZS7 for EDM and death metal. Not for acoustic music.


----------



## Slater (Aug 17, 2019)

KimChee said:


> I wish both companies would consolidate their lines and focus on iems that are a bigger upgrade. Not that I don’t enjoy the every few months releases, but they seem to be more sidegrades and I’m trying not to own 10 of these things...



I agree, but as an example 10x$40(or $50)=$400-$500, vs 1x$120=$120.

Which do you think KZ would rather have us do?


----------



## Coldheart29

citral23 said:


> The ZS10 pro has more treble than the ZS7. Some call it more detailed because of that.
> 
> The ZS10 pro is more congested than the ZS7 (despite the stronger ZS7 bass). It has almost no soundstage at all. Mids  are overly recessed. I find it increasingly hard to listen to, moreso after spending more time with my KPE and KB100 lately. Still trying as I somehow want to like it but....
> 
> ...



Hmm, that makes it sound like i'd like the zs7 more afterall, as i thought. And the part about edm and death metal is quite usefull, as i happen to listen to those genres.
I guess you haven't heard either the as06 or as10 to make a comparison?


----------



## citral23

No, I have not. Heard they don't have much sub, but faster bass being all BA.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I can’t comment on the other models but I certainly endorse the zs7. Sounds pretty awesome for rock music. Bass hits low and fast but with no bleed. I previously owned the xelento among others and while they don’t get to that level, the price to performance ratio is off the charts.


----------



## clerkpalmer

citral23 said:


> No, I have not. Heard they don't have much sub, but faster bass being all BA.


The sub bass is there but it does decay extremely quickly. Impressively so.


----------



## KimChee

I listen to edm and death metal zs7 is awesome for both...



Coldheart29 said:


> Hmm, that makes it sound like i'd like the zs7 more afterall, as i thought. And the part about edm and death metal is quite usefull, as i happen to listen to those genres.
> I guess you haven't heard either the as06 or as10 to make a comparison?


----------



## baskingshark

KimChee said:


> I wish both companies would consolidate their lines and focus on iems that are a bigger upgrade. Not that I don’t enjoy the every few months releases, but they seem to be more sidegrades and I’m trying not to own 10 of these things...



Actually I think KZ tried to muscle into the $100 USD price bracket recently with their KZ AS16, but it wasn't that successful, especially when many had the cheaper CCA C16 already. And at that price bracket there are other bigboys to compete with.

I still think KZ does great with their sub $50 USD IEMs but as you say, a lot of the recent offerings are sidegrades. Let's see how the KZ terminator and CCA C12 turn out.


----------



## clerkpalmer

I am new to this chifi stuff but I am pretty amazed at the zs7.  If I wanted to say double my budget to 80 to 100 what would you guys suggest and would the upgrade be significant?


----------



## Zerohour88

clerkpalmer said:


> I am new to this chifi stuff but I am pretty amazed at the zs7.  If I wanted to say double my budget to 80 to 100 what would you guys suggest and would the upgrade be significant?



other brands? head over to:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/

I don't think there's a consensus on a model to recommend so far around that tier (fiercely competitive).


----------



## clerkpalmer

Zerohour88 said:


> other brands? head over to:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/
> 
> I don't think there's a consensus on a model to recommend so far around that tier (fiercely competitive).


Thanks. Looks like I have some reading to do. I’ve owned other iems that cost a lot more. B400, Titan T5 and it’s been awhile but I’m not sure I think they were any better and they sure cost a lot more.


----------



## lgcubana

clerkpalmer said:


> I am new to this chifi stuff but I am pretty amazed at the zs7.  If I wanted to say double my budget to 80 to 100 what would you guys suggest and would the upgrade be significant?


What would you want to change, of the ZS7's profile ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

lgcubana said:


> What would you want to change, of the ZS7's profile ?


Excellent question.  Not sure. Is “better” an option?


----------



## lgcubana

clerkpalmer said:


> Excellent question.  Not sure. Is “better” an option?


Nope, because my "better" could be a meh for you

Are there any of your favorite tracks that don't play quite right, on the ZS7s ?


----------



## clerkpalmer

lgcubana said:


> Nope, because my "better" could be a meh for you
> 
> Are there any of your favorite tracks that don't play quite right, on the ZS7s ?


I’ll listen more. I really have zero complaints and are quiet impressed by them. If I had a reference point, xelento are the best iems I have ever heard. Warm, musical and even more importantly fun.


----------



## DynamicEars

citral23 said:


> The ZS10 pro has more treble than the ZS7. Some call it more detailed because of that.
> 
> The ZS10 pro is more congested than the ZS7 (despite the stronger ZS7 bass). It has almost no soundstage at all. Mids  are overly recessed. I find it increasingly hard to listen to, moreso after spending more time with my KPE and KB100 lately. Still trying as I somehow want to like it but....
> 
> ...



sometimes boosted trebles are often perceived as "more detailed" in fact they are just perceived you to heard as more detailed, not real resolution details. You will know if you have TOTL to compare with. I agree with this.

ZS10 Pro is more congested than ZS7? so ZS7 handles complex tracks better without distortion?

I don't have ZS7 because I don't intend to collect too many KZs like I did in the past (and a bit regret because they're useless but I take that as a learning curve to know more about chifi world). ZS10 Pro biggest turn off for me is the tonality, weird tonality (just like other KZ with mid-high BAs, sounds steely, not organic).
In comparison I got Moondrop KP and BQEYZ KB100 too, they have great tonality. Is ZS7 have oraganic natural tonality? how is is compared to KB100? I prefer KB100 than ZS10 Pro honestly even ZS10 Pro have some plus points against KB100.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> I agree, but as an example 10x$40(or $50)=$400-$500, vs 1x$120=$120.
> 
> Which do you think KZ would rather have us do?


I'm pretty sure only Headfi members buy one of every model of a brand. Before Headfi I just stuck with one pair of earphones at a time.

Headfi is great for an earphone education that there is more to offer.


----------



## Slater

clerkpalmer said:


> I am new to this chifi stuff but I am pretty amazed at the zs7.  If I wanted to say double my budget to 80 to 100 what would you guys suggest and would the upgrade be significant?



Toneking Nine Tail would be my recommendation at that price range. It comes with 3 different front and rear filters, allowing the sound signature to be adjusted in 9 different combinations.

Im sure others will have good suggestions as well.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Slater said:


> Toneking Nine Tail would be my recommendation at that price range. It comes with 3 different front and rear filters, allowing the sound signature to be adjusted in 9 different combinations.
> 
> Im sure others will have good suggestions as well.


Thanks Slater. Always appreciated.


----------



## KimChee

Yeah, I had C16 already do I want that interested in AS16...I might just wait for C20, and I’m also looking into some of the higher customs like Empire Ears...



baskingshark said:


> Actually I think KZ tried to muscle into the $100 USD price bracket recently with their KZ AS16, but it wasn't that successful, especially when many had the cheaper CCA C16 already. And at that price bracket there are other bigboys to compete with.
> 
> I still think KZ does great with their sub $50 USD IEMs but as you say, a lot of the recent offerings are sidegrades. Let's see how the KZ terminator and CCA C12 turn out.


----------



## gbrgbr (Aug 18, 2019)

Any way to fix this ?

The volume of the right earpiece of my *ZSA* sometimes gets very low. Sometimes even goes dead. Later on it sounds ok, then after some time the same prob starts,

Tried diff cables. Tried diff sources. If I attach the right side cable to the left earpiece, the volume is OK. (EDIT : If I attach the left side cable to the right earpiece, same prob.)

So the prob is with the right ear piece.


----------



## Coldheart29

Eh, i guess i'm convinced about the zs7 then.
Just one more question, how big are they? If possible a photo next to the zst would be great, since i have them and it would be easy to compare the 2.



DynamicEars said:


> I don't have ZS7 because I don't intend to collect too many KZs like I did in the past (and a bit regret because they're useless but I take that as a learning curve to know more about chifi world).



Well, i guess that's another matter of taste, cause i, for example, like to collect different models even from the same manufacturer, even just for collection sake. And chifi is great for that since you won't need to bleed yourself dry to afford a decently sized collection


----------



## SinisterDev

I'm really curious about how the ZSX is going to turn out. I'm also curious about the CCA C12. I remember seeing the C16 when I bought my first Chifi IEM, the C10. Wonder why CCA made the C16 first and are now making the C12? Seemed like some other companies had released their multi BA IEMs in order. So I wonder how different the 12s will be from the 16? Lol, I'm still learning so much about all the different internal components. Different DD types, and all the different, popular BAs and their pros and cons. I am interested in taking the plunge in the future and getting an iem in the $100 range. So many choices haha. Based on what y'all have said here about various IEMs, I'm very interested in experiencing several IEMs and how they differ in sound. So far I only have the C10 and ZS10 Pro to compare. And I really like both, but I wanna hear more!


----------



## citral23 (Aug 18, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> sometimes boosted trebles are often perceived as "more detailed" in fact they are just perceived you to heard as more detailed, not real resolution details. You will know if you have TOTL to compare with. I agree with this.
> 
> ZS10 Pro is more congested than ZS7? so ZS7 handles complex tracks better without distortion?
> 
> ...



It's not really about distortion, by congested I mean the sound seems packed up awfully tight in there with no way to escape, think of those consumer supermarket "hi-fi" systems of the 90s (Aiwa, Pioneer etc) that were competing for consumer attention with overly compressed sound that had literally 0 3D quality to them.

I wouldn't say the ZS7 has an organic tonality. But that's not a big issue for saturated guitars or EDM tbh. It plays jazz ok, but far from "great". At least it's not congested like the ZS10 pro so music can breath with it, but unless you eq it honestly it's too much bass on say Getz, Gilberto and it becomes detrimental to the presentation. KPE has slightly too much  bass to be called audiophile I think, but it's very controlled and enjoyable,  with superb contrabass rendition, very enjoyable for me.

Sax, voices, piano all sound much more natural on KPE. A lot more.

But KPE struggles with death metal imo, it's like trying to rock death metal on a vintage fender amp, that's fantastic for country but not up to the metal job. ZS7 is your Peavey or Randall, if that makes sense.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Coldheart29 said:


> Well, i guess that's another matter of taste, cause i, for example, like to collect different models even from the same manufacturer, even just for collection sake. And chifi is great for that since you won't need to bleed yourself dry to afford a decently sized collection


Your signature says you're either a liar or not a very good collector. 

RE:

*IEMs/Earbuds*: KZ ZST, VE Monk+ candy, Shure se215.
*Headphones*: Sony MDR-100aap, Koss PortaPro.
*Sources*: Fiio X3ii, Oneplus 3t.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 18, 2019)

gbrgbr said:


> Any way to fix this ?
> 
> The volume of the right earpiece of my *ZSA* sometimes gets very low. Sometimes even goes dead. Later on it sounds ok, then after some time the same prob starts,
> 
> ...


It's worth buying another ZSA, they're awesome!  PS: There are better purchases though.


----------



## DynamicEars

citral23 said:


> It's not really about distortion, by congested I mean the sound seems packed up awfully tight in there with no way to escape, think of those consumer supermarket "hi-fi" systems of the 90s (Aiwa, Pioneer etc) that were competing for consumer attention with overly compressed sound that had literally 0 3D quality to them.
> 
> I wouldn't say the ZS7 has an organic tonality. But that's not a big issue for saturated guitars or EDM tbh. It plays jazz ok, but far from "great". At least it's not congested like the ZS10 pro so music can breath with it, but unless you eq it honestly it's too much bass on say Getz, Gilberto and it becomes detrimental to the presentation. KPE has slightly too much  bass to be called audiophile I think, but it's very controlled and enjoyable,  with superb contrabass rendition, very enjoyable for me.
> 
> ...



Ok I got what's your point is. So ZS10 Pro is more intimate, crumpled if not sound too harsh to describe. I see. Death Metal isnt my thing so yeah.. So the tonality better but far from great like KPE then. Ok, will surely pass ZS7. I don't have intention to buy since the first time but you know this itchy feeling after not buying new iem so long time (2 months? lol). I guess ZS10 pro will be my last KZ for long time, unless they're coming with something really much better with great tonality. But they did very great, they did much improvement since last time with take down shouty harsh upper mid peak at 3khz, sub bass that dig down lower and other improvements


----------



## Coldheart29 (Aug 18, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Your signature says you're either a liar or not a very good collector.
> 
> RE:
> 
> ...


Eh, i've only just started collecting KZ stuff, but don't worry, i'll have a nice stack in no time (i mean, i bought a zst about a month ago, in the next couple weeks i should receive a pair each of zsr and zse, and am already looking at the next upgrade).

I had a bit more of a sony collection, but most of my iems ended up failing, so now here i am with a modest number of earphones


----------



## Nimweth

DynamicEars said:


> Ok I got what's your point is. So ZS10 Pro is more intimate, crumpled if not sound too harsh to describe. I see. Death Metal isnt my thing so yeah.. So the tonality better but far from great like KPE then. Ok, will surely pass ZS7. I don't have intention to buy since the first time but you know this itchy feeling after not buying new iem so long time (2 months? lol). I guess ZS10 pro will be my last KZ for long time, unless they're coming with something really much better with great tonality. But they did very great, they did much improvement since last time with take down shouty harsh upper mid peak at 3khz, sub bass that dig down lower and other improvements


I must say I prefer the ZS7 to the ZS10 Pro. The sub bass is amazing, the mids are softer but with a more natural tonality and the treble is more relaxed but still detailed. Also the soundstage is much better with the vented earpieces. I think it's the 50060 armature I don't like, the ZS7 has 29869 and 31005. I feel the same about the original ZS10 and the CCA C10 which have the same drivers as the ZS10 Pro.


----------



## citral23

DynamicEars said:


> Ok I got what's your point is. So ZS10 Pro is more intimate, crumpled if not sound too harsh to describe. I see. Death Metal isnt my thing so yeah.. So the tonality better but far from great like KPE then. Ok, will surely pass ZS7. I don't have intention to buy since the first time but you know this itchy feeling after not buying new iem so long time (2 months? lol). I guess ZS10 pro will be my last KZ for long time, unless they're coming with something really much better with great tonality. But they did very great, they did much improvement since last time with take down shouty harsh upper mid peak at 3khz, sub bass that dig down lower and other improvements



I know that feeling too well. But honestly, I'm not sure what there is to buy atm. KPE and KB100 are fantastic, you got some of the best single DD and hybrid for acoustic music at perfect price to their performance.

I got the ZS7 to compliment them for EDM, some hip-hop or metal, and some straight down wearables for work but other than that there's really nothing on the market, at my prices, that would be a good addition.

I'm waiting for a good affordable all (or single) BA. For now, they all seem meh in the budget / mid-range segment.

Maybe a planar. Don't like the look nor the fit of the Tin Audio.

So yeah, waiting. So I have more money eventually if it's justified. I have enough "ok-ish" iems, once you have a great one like the KPE you start to think it's a waste if money to have 3 35€ iems + their 8€ upgrade cables = 129€. That's not a great way to spend, moreso if it's sidegrades or all budget hybrids that sound off.


----------



## DynamicEars (Aug 18, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I know that feeling too well. But honestly, I'm not sure what there is to buy atm. KPE and KB100 are fantastic, you got some of the best single DD and hybrid for acoustic music at perfect price to their performance.
> 
> I got the ZS7 to compliment them for EDM, some hip-hop or metal, and some straight down wearables for work but other than that there's really nothing on the market, at my prices, that would be a good addition.
> 
> ...



definitely agree. Don't buy OK-ish or "quite good" iems even they're cheap enough. just save to buy Great ones. I've learnt that but often fell into good reviews..

Yes I got many good and great single DD iems, tfz no 3, KP, EX600, EX1000 etc. I always love DD, until recently I can't get enough from my IER M7. They are crazy good, a bit steep on price though, entry level TOTL. for all BA you may want to check audiosense, a lot of good reviews about them. And wait for BQEYZ Spring 1 is coming real soon with DD+BA+piezo, their design also ergonomic. Competition is tight, even for KZ. Thanks for your opinion


----------



## citral23

Isn't Spring 1 going to be DD + BA + Piezzo?

I had the **** with a Piezzo which I find sounds completely off, horrible tonality, so I'm reserved about that.


----------



## DynamicEars

citral23 said:


> Isn't Spring 1 going to be DD + BA + Piezzo?
> 
> I had the **** with a Piezzo which I find sounds completely off, horrible tonality, so I'm reserved about that.



my bad, yes they will be DD + BA + 7 layers piezo. I have **** too with same config, and I'm agree with you (against so many people) that tonality is wrong, not steely, but more like different phase of tonality, not literally out of phase, but when you supposed to boost 2khz and reduce 3khz, they swapped it, like in 8khz and 7khz. I guess that made them sounds weird in tonality. And mid bass bleeds. but they're good for the price, great details and unique semi open back that help to give air to perceived wide soundstage. Sorry for OOT, was talking about ZS7 and more and more.


----------



## Coldheart29

Ok, come 11.11 i might grab a cable for the zst/zsr. I was looking at the nicehck 16 core one, and was wondering how it fare comfort-wise. How does it compare to the stock KZ braided cable? more or less tangly? softer or more rigid?
Also, any suggestion for a cable like it, but with an angled jack in the same price range (don't wanna spend more than 10/15 bucks on a cable i'll use for earphones that go at most for 30 bucks :V)?


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZS10 is great for rock music.


Then again, so is the ZS10 PRO. And it's a comfortable fit. All depends on what kind of sound signature a person is looking for.


----------



## courierdriver

citral23 said:


> The ZS10 pro has more treble than the ZS7. Some call it more detailed because of that.
> 
> The ZS10 pro is more congested than the ZS7 (despite the stronger ZS7 bass). It has almost no soundstage at all. Mids  are overly recessed. I find it increasingly hard to listen to, moreso after spending more time with my KPE and KB100 lately. Still trying as I somehow want to like it but....
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I don't agree. ZS10 PRO works great on almost anything. While I love my KPE, the ZS10 PRO gives a brighter more detailed presentation. It's an overall more fun sound. It's an excellent compliment to the KPE. Depending on my mood, I often like it more. Not as refined and more raw sounding. Sometimes, with certain kinds of music, I like it better.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 18, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Sorry, but I don't agree. ZS10 PRO works great on almost anything. While I love my KPE, the ZS10 PRO gives a brighter more detailed presentation. It's an overall more fun sound. It's an excellent compliment to the KPE. Depending on my mood, I often like it more. Not as refined and more raw sounding. Sometimes, with certain kinds of music, I like it better.


I find your post interesting as I never listen to my Moondrop Crescent. I'd rather pop on a KZ since the ear hooks make it easier to use on the go. I've never heard my Crescent yet. 

I should have bought a BQEYZ instead.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> Then again, so is the ZS10 PRO. And it's a comfortable fit. All depends on what kind of sound signature a person is looking for.


True that. Plus the Pro is only $15CAN more than the $35CAN ZS10.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 18, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I had the **** with a Piezzo which I find sounds completely off, horrible tonality, so I'm reserved about that.


**** arent pro's at putting earphones together.  I didn't like my PT15 or ****. 

No more **** or TRN for me.  Just my opinion.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 18, 2019)

Coldheart29 said:


> Eh, i've only just started collecting KZ stuff, but don't worry, i'll have a nice stack in no time (i mean, i bought a zst about a month ago, in the next couple weeks i should receive a pair each of zsr and zse, and am already looking at the next upgrade).


Buying those models sound like downgrades unless it was 2017.

Why not try purchasing newer KZ models first? Check out my signature.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Any good upgrade cables out there for ZS6 v2? or ZSA, the lone ranger who hates non-stock cables?


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find your post interesting as I never listen to my Moondrop Crescent. I'd rather pop on a KZ since the ear hooks make it easier to use on the go. I've never heard my Crescent yet.
> 
> I should have bought a BQEYZ instead.


I'm kinda dumbfounded. First, why haven't you even listened to the Crescent?! Second, why do you think you should have bought a Bqeys instead? What is it sound wise that you are searching for?


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> True that. Plus the Pro is only $15CAN more than the $35CAN ZS10.


I bought my second set of ZS10 PRO for $37 Cdn from Aliexpress in the middle of June, during their half year sale.


----------



## SoundChoice

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find your post interesting as I never listen to my Moondrop Crescent. I'd rather pop on a KZ since the ear hooks make it easier to use on the go. I've never heard my Crescent yet.
> 
> I should have bought a BQEYZ instead.


The Crescent is a comfortable pleasant-sounding surprise.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SoundChoice said:


> The Crescent is a comfortable pleasant-sounding surprise.


No doubt... I hear it sounds like a Kanas Pro... Well, half of one.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 19, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> I'm kinda dumbfounded. First, why haven't you even listened to the Crescent?! Second, why do you think you should have bought a Bqeys instead? What is it sound wise that you are searching for?


I think I am so used to the KZ style and ease of use that I havent paid attention to the C yet. I am trying to get my KZ's to sound their best before I go there, I guess?

Unfortunately, KZ's need some mods sometimes to sound their best... whole other brands make iems great out of the box.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 19, 2019)

I sort of liked the ZS6 v2 today. Unfortunately, he's picky at what music he likes to listen to. But when he finds a recording he enjoys (it takes a while), he's a "winner".

Because of this problem though, I will rarely listen to him. What a jerk!


----------



## Caipirina

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I sort of liked the ZS6 v2 today. Unfortunately, he's picky at what music he likes to listen to. But when he finds a recording he enjoys (it takes a while), he's a "winner".
> 
> Because of this problem though, I will rarely listen to him. What a jerk!



Sure that's a 'he'?   Sounds more like ...     

anyhooo, how again do I know if it is V1 or V2? I got the red ones like 6 weeks ago, so Guess that's a V2?


----------



## archdawg

Caipirina said:


> Sure that's a 'he'?   Sounds more like ...
> 
> anyhooo, how again do I know if it is V1 or V2? I got the red ones like 6 weeks ago, so Guess that's a V2?


Based on what has been discussed and more or less agreed upon here a while ago there seem to exist at least 3 versions of the ZS6:
V1: no lip on the nozzle (aka 'nozzle-lip'), old Bellsing 30095 BA with infamous piercing treble but very spacious soundstage
V2: same Bellsing BAs > sound, stage, air, etc... but lip on the nozzle (I own one of these)
V3: 'nozzle-lip' but newer, 'customized' 30095 BAs (see text in KZ product images), less piercing treble but somewhat reduced soundstage and less airy. I own two copies (green and red) that I bought in February and March this year and the treble sounds distinctively more tame and rolled off compared to my older, grey V2 set.
There's also a chance that KZ changed components of the passive crossover to tame the treble, but I haven't done any measurements myself. 
With that being said I'd suspect that there exist different versions of other KZ models as well (standard Bellsing BAs/ customized KZ BAs), but since I don't own multiple copies of any other KZ hybrids apart from the ZS6 and later ZS7 I can't confirm this.


----------



## auraldesire95

Odd question. Which is the best store to order the CCA C10 from: NiceHCK Audio Store or CCA Global Store?

NiceHCK have more orders in comparison. (1,120 > 662)


----------



## megapowa

auraldesire95 said:


> Odd question. Which is the best store to order the CCA C10 from: NiceHCK Audio Store or CCA Global Store?
> 
> NiceHCK have more orders in comparison. (1,120 > 662)



I ordered various things from nicehck store. No problem at all. 

But I see no reason to order from 3rd party instead of the official store. 

Cca is a newer store hence why it has fewer total orders.


----------



## Caipirina

archdawg said:


> Based on what has been discussed and more or less agreed upon here a while ago there seem to exist at least 3 versions of the ZS6:
> V1: no lip on the nozzle (aka 'nozzle-lip'), old Bellsing 30095 BA with infamous piercing treble but very spacious soundstage
> V2: same Bellsing BAs > sound, stage, air, etc... but lip on the nozzle (I own one of these)
> V3: 'nozzle-lip' but newer, 'customized' 30095 BAs (see text in KZ product images), less piercing treble but somewhat reduced soundstage and less airy. I own two copies (green and red) that I bought in February and March this year and the treble sounds distinctively more tame and rolled off compared to my older, grey V2 set.
> ...



Thank you for taking the time for this very detailed response!

I do recall the whole nozzle-lip discussion ... looks like only my ZS5 is lip-less   So far I never noticed a piercing treble on my 6ers , but I did not go search for it either.


----------



## Caipirina

auraldesire95 said:


> Odd question. Which is the best store to order the CCA C10 from: NiceHCK Audio Store or CCA Global Store?
> 
> NiceHCK have more orders in comparison. (1,120 > 662)



Only can vouch for NiceHCK store, very good experiences, they have seen a lot of my money


----------



## baskingshark

auraldesire95 said:


> Odd question. Which is the best store to order the CCA C10 from: NiceHCK Audio Store or CCA Global Store?
> 
> NiceHCK have more orders in comparison. (1,120 > 662)



I have bought from NiceHCK Audio Store many times and they have fast shipping and good service.
But personally, I go for the cheapest deal (with free shipping) on Aliexpress. If the price is thereabouts, I would go for the one with the best shipping speed/communication based on the storepage review.
Aliexpress is quite safe IMHO, they will keep the money in escrow and will only release the money to seller once you have confirmed a satisfactory product. I bought ~ 100 items from them and they all sooner or later ended up at my doorstep. Only received 1 lemon which was refunded after I contacted seller.


----------



## Coldheart29

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Buying those models sound like downgrades unless it was 2017.
> 
> Why not try purchasing newer KZ models first? Check out my signature.



I bought the ZSR cause it has a noticeable dip in the 3.5 to 4.5 khz range, and that should be great for me, since i'm quite sensitive to that region of the audible spectrum.
And i got the zse just because it was 2 buck and with a coupon i had it was basically free.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 19, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I find your post interesting as I never listen to my Moondrop Crescent. I'd rather pop on a KZ since the ear hooks make it easier to use on the go. I've never heard my Crescent yet.
> 
> I should have bought a BQEYZ instead.



I find over ear type iems more difficult to wear because I can't just quickly pop them in and out.  With something that just goes straight in like the Moondrop Crescent or the Sony MH755, it is so easy to just put them in and out.  I always put them in far enough that they won't fall out when I move around.

Not all KZs are over ear... I love my ED9.

I ended up getting the best fit and sound with my Crescent using M Starlines modded into "flip tips."   The first iems that  I have used these on.








Here is the thread that @Slater started .   Of course it is he who came up with the idea

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fli...e-your-mind-blown.906357/page-3#post-15094545


----------



## smodtactical

Looking for a very durable gym IEM that sounds good (fun sound, solid bass but still detailed). Budget under $100. Thinking ZS 10 pro vs CCM C10. Any thoughts?


----------



## chinmie

LaughMoreDaily said:


> No doubt... I hear it sounds like a Kanas Pro... Well, half of one.



compared to KPE, i like the Crescent tuning more. compared to the standard Kanas however, i prefer the Kanas better


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which model do you think is the best at $15?
> 
> I like the ES4 better than the ZSN as it sounds natural and life-like and the bass is slammin' with the BA10 cable.
> 
> I'm currently using the BA10 cable on the ES4 and it sounds pretty great to me. I'm trying the ZSN Copper on it next and those cables on the ZS10 after that.



I really enjoy the ZSN Pro and its the one I recommend for this pricepoint, that said I love the ES4 also.


----------



## RikudouGoku

smodtactical said:


> Looking for a very durable gym IEM that sounds good (fun sound, solid bass but still detailed). Budget under $100. Thinking ZS 10 pro vs CCM C10. Any thoughts?


Not sure about durability but sound wise I recommend Zs10 Pro for gym over the CCA C10 because it is more V-shaped. ( I like energetic stuff if working out)


----------



## lgcubana

Even though I'm in the honeymoon stage with the KZ ZS7s, I wanted to use the ZS10s this morning, to  tune out the "sparkles".  As the ZS10s are very friendly to tweaking.

Radsone ES100




The sub bass is clean, without any real mid bass bleed and the vocals are as forward as I would want them.


----------



## 1clearhead

smodtactical said:


> Looking for a very durable gym IEM that sounds good (fun sound, solid bass but still detailed). Budget under $100. Thinking ZS 10 pro vs CCM C10. Any thoughts?


I'd personally vouch for the KZ ZSN PRO, which has an awesome sounding V-shape sound signature to go with a great workout, and all this while saving some cash to buy either more energy drinks or extend your gym membership package.

-Clear


----------



## TheVortex

The KZ ZSX is on AliExpress finally!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104031681.html?



They look pretty badass!


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> The KZ ZSX is on AliExpress finally!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104031681.html?
> 
> ...



What's the "DWEK" thing mentioned a few times?


----------



## jant71 (Aug 19, 2019)

Slater said:


> What's the "DWEK" thing mentioned a few times?



It is the made up off brand armature name meant to fool those that don't know better but can confuse with the real DWFK name and it will sound good and or real to them.  they will think they are gettin' a deal cause them DWEK armatures cost a pretty penny


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> What's the "DWEK" thing mentioned a few times?



Using the Google translate app apparently it's the "improved" driver for mid-highs:



>


----------



## Aparker2005

Not being just overly impressed with the as16, and loving the zs10 pro, I wonder if this new zsx is worth a try


----------



## Tamirci (Aug 19, 2019)

Aparker2005 said:


> Not being just overly impressed with the as16, and loving the zs10 pro, I wonder if this new zsx is worth a try



There was a statement that its "benchmark". I dunno where I saw it.

Ps. Here it it. I wonder if it stands up for its claim..


----------



## TheVortex

I am waiting for another store to put up the promotion pictures in English and that is even if they have them.

I guess these to be an upgrade to the ZS10 Pro and hopefully with a bit more mids to them.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> What's the "DWEK" thing mentioned a few times?



No idea and these are a little cheaper than what I was expecting. 

Also these slightly undercutting the new TRN V90 for price as well should be interesting.


----------



## jant71

TheVortex said:


> Also these slightly undercutting the new TRN V90 for price as well should be interesting.



That should make for an interesting comparison.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tamirci said:


> There was a statement that its "benchmark". I dunno where I saw it.
> 
> Ps. Here it it. I wonder if it stands up for its claim..


What is Benchmark? Like the benchmark in PC Cpu scores or something else?


----------



## Tamirci

RikudouGoku said:


> What is Benchmark? Like the benchmark in PC Cpu scores or something else?



With "benchmark" title it must better be perfectly neutral..unlike kz.


----------



## MacAttack7

What is the nozzle size of the KZ ZS10 Pro? I'd like to try some spinfit tips just for the heck of it.
I had the original generic tips on that came with my earphones & they didn't quite fit my right ear........kept working it's way out a bit. 
Then I switched to the starline tips that were provided & got a much better fit.
Thought I'd try the spinfits too just for the heck of it.....even though the starlines are good.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MacAttack7 said:


> What is the nozzle size of the KZ ZS10 Pro? I'd like to try some spinfit tips just for the heck of it.
> I had the original generic tips on that came with my earphones & they didn't quite fit my right ear........kept working it's way out a bit.
> Then I switched to the starline tips that were provided & got a much better fit.
> Thought I'd try the spinfits too just for the heck of it.....even though the starlines are good.


CP145 and Cp100Z fit for me


----------



## Aparker2005

Very tempted to try these terminators and sell my as16 if I like them more..... But curious how much different they'd be than the already awesome zs10 pro


----------



## Mouseman

I'm not going to fall for their trap this time! I'll wait for the blue faceplates!


----------



## Makahl

I was almost getting the ZS7 but I'll wait for the first wave of ZSXs reviews come in, depending on how they improved it I'll probably get one.  As I expected they changed the DD - hoping a bit more sub-bass extension. The new BAs on ad seems it'll get fuller vocals. On paper, it seems interesting! 



Mouseman said:


> I'm not going to fall for their trap this time! I'll wait for the blue faceplates!



Lol, or even _ZSX Pro _after ~1 month.


----------



## ignorant

I'd love more sub bass on the zs10 pro. The mids/vocals and treble are a little too in your face for me and can get fatiguing quickly. Using the New bee silicon tips and stock cable. My go to tips - the Spin fit 145 give them even more treble. The TRN V90s just released and I'm excited to see how they compare to the zs10 pro!!


----------



## Makahl

TheVortex said:


> I am waiting for another store to put up the promotion pictures in English and that is even if they have them.
> 
> I guess these to be an upgrade to the ZS10 Pro and hopefully with a bit more mids to them.




Now it's up on their official store in English. LINK


----------



## baskingshark

TheVortex said:


> The KZ ZSX is on AliExpress finally!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104031681.html?
> 
> ...



Lol I can see why they are called Terminators, they truly look badass.

I'll probably wait for reviews first though. A lot of KZs recent offerings have been more of sidegrades, so I'm wondering if this set is markedly better than the well received ZS10 Pros.
Also as others have said, the TRN V90 just released on AE today, and there are a few other IEMs waiting in the wings to be released soon such as CCA C12 and BQEYZ Spring 1.
So competitive nowadays!


----------



## maxxevv

Makahl said:


> Now it's up on their official store in English. LINK



If the Frequency Response curve is accurate, it should make for a fairly well tuned frequency crossovers. Mid-centric, no sharp peaks with a taper / roll-off after 5k ?


----------



## 1clearhead

TheVortex said:


> The KZ ZSX is on AliExpress finally!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104031681.html?
> 
> ...


+1 Agree!


----------



## Mouseman

baskingshark said:


> Lol I can see why they are called Terminators, they truly look badass.
> 
> I'll probably wait for reviews first though. A lot of KZs recent offerings have been more of sidegrades, so I'm wondering if this set is markedly better than the well received ZS10 Pros.
> Also as others have said, the TRN V90 just released on AE today, and there are a few other IEMs waiting in the wings to be released soon such as CCA C12 and BQEYZ Spring 1.
> So competitive nowadays!


I couldn't find the V90s - link please?


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 19, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> I couldn't find the V90s - link please?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000103473362.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.78625db6WpT5r9&algo_pvid=d57bde82-238c-4a92-9a10-a7b9225550ce&algo_expid=d57bde82-238c-4a92-9a10-a7b9225550ce-4&btsid=5e8c033f-9f9c-4da0-afbd-6318eb0f32f7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_60

TRN V90. Credit to @Assimilator702 , he was the one who found it released today and recommended that there is a seller discount (fan's exclusive discount) on NICEHCK store via the app version. (You need to follow NICEHCK first to qualify for the 35% discount).


----------



## DynamicEars

ZS10 Pro actually pretty good in terms of technical abilities, They can handle complex tracks pretty well for budget price. Bass texture also nice, the sub bass also nice and no bleeds like usual chifi and earlier stage of KZs. If KZX have upgrades, I would suggest for more refine treble section, details but smooth and non piercing non tiring and tonality from low mids until highs. Their BAs still have very steely / weird tonality. I hope they are improving this.


----------



## Assimilator702

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000103473362.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.78625db6WpT5r9&algo_pvid=d57bde82-238c-4a92-9a10-a7b9225550ce&algo_expid=d57bde82-238c-4a92-9a10-a7b9225550ce-4&btsid=5e8c033f-9f9c-4da0-afbd-6318eb0f32f7&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_60
> 
> TRN V90. Credit to @Assimilator702 , he was the one who found it released today and recommended that there is a seller discount (fan's exclusive discount) on NICEHCK store via the app version.


Thank @KopiOkaya who informed me of the release date on his YouTube page. He told me the 19th which for some reason I thought was Tuesday.  I realized today was indeed the 19th once I had my coffee in me. I would have posted much earlier since I was up at the crack of dawn.


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> ZS10 Pro actually pretty good in terms of technical abilities, They can handle complex tracks pretty well for budget price. Bass texture also nice, the sub bass also nice and no bleeds like usual chifi and earlier stage of KZs. If KZX have upgrades, I would suggest for more refine treble section, details but smooth and non piercing non tiring and tonality from low mids until highs. Their BAs still have very steely / weird tonality. I hope they are improving this.



Yep +1 to this.
ZS10 Pro is my favourite KZ IEM thus far, good allrounder.
Agree it can do with more refinement in the treble. Some instruments in the treble sound a bit artificial as you say, but this is just a small nitpick from me. I suspect it has to do with the BA drivers they are using - are they Bellsings? I personally think Knowles drivers have a bit more accurate tonality but they are definitely more expensive. Well nothing much to complain about the ZS10 Pro at their cheap price range, great price to performance ratio IMHO.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

baskingshark said:


> ZS10 Pro is my favourite KZ IEM thus far, good allrounder.
> Well nothing much to complain about the ZS10 Pro at their cheap price range, great price to performance ratio IMHO.


Is your ZS10 Pro still a necessary listen when you have much better iems?

RE: Favourite IEMs: Audiosense T800, TFZ No. 3, Toneking Nine Tails, KZ ZS10 Pro, ****, Sony MH755


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Is your ZS10 Pro still a necessary listen when you have much better iems?
> 
> RE: Favourite IEMs: Audiosense T800, TFZ No. 3, Toneking Nine Tails, KZ ZS10 Pro, ****, Sony MH755



Haha we all have a stash of IEMs for different genres/moods. I probably need to see a psychologist for my IEM hoarding tendencies lol.

I use the ZS10 pro for more outdoor and robust activities where it has good isolation and I wouldn't cry if it does get damaged.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

archdawg said:


> Based on what has been discussed and more or less agreed upon here a while ago there seem to exist at least 3 versions of the ZS6:
> V1: no lip on the nozzle (aka 'nozzle-lip'), old Bellsing 30095 BA with infamous piercing treble but very spacious soundstage
> V2: same Bellsing BAs > sound, stage, air, etc... but lip on the nozzle (I own one of these)
> V3: 'nozzle-lip' but newer, 'customized' 30095 BAs (see text in KZ product images), less piercing treble but somewhat reduced soundstage and less airy. I own two copies (green and red) that I bought in February and March this year and the treble sounds distinctively more tame and rolled off compared to my older, grey V2 set.
> ...


Thanks for the re-post. I think I bought the ZS6 v3 as they sound nothing like what people experience with the v1. I'm putting mine in the permanent closet... so sad. They sound terrible. I liked my ATR better.


----------



## Makahl

DynamicEars said:


> ZS10 Pro actually pretty good in terms of technical abilities, They can handle complex tracks pretty well for budget price. Bass texture also nice, the sub bass also nice and no bleeds like usual chifi and earlier stage of KZs. If KZX have upgrades, I would suggest for more refine treble section, details but smooth and non piercing non tiring and tonality from low mids until highs. Their BAs still have very steely / weird tonality. I hope they are improving this.



Even though they aren't perfect at the treble timbre, it really amazes me sometimes its technical abilities. I don't even listen to Dio that much nowadays, but I was listening to Dio - The Last In Line and the intro part there's a small detail (similar to a fast metronome) on the right side, not even KPE and Oxygen could handle this detail so clearly. Also, cutting some dBs off at highs it makes the treble less steely IMO, but I'm really lazy in EQing it for every source so... I kind of got used to it, lol.


----------



## Assimilator702

NiceHCK looks to have the best price on the ZSX. I had them in my cart from the Official KZ store already but was waiting to see if a few other stores would have a better price in the coming days. On the results list NiceHCK store had the most expensive price @ $56.25. Clicking on the page shows a much better price Fans Exclusive price. And I must have clicked on the page within seconds of the price drop since I was going back and forth making notes of which stores had them.  Boy was that a magical feeling seeing the price drop to $38 from $56.
One thing to add as per the KZ Twitter page the Black will be in stock within 7 to 10 days while the purple and cyan are yet to be determined. Here the screenshot from the app.


----------



## baskingshark

Assimilator702 said:


> NiceHCK looks to have the best price on the ZSX. I had them in my cart from the Official KZ store already but was waiting to see if a few other stores would have a better price in the coming days. On the results list NiceHCK store had the most expensive price @ $56.25. Clicking on the page shows a much better price Fans Exclusive price. And I must have clicked on the page within seconds of the price drop since I was going back and forth making notes of which stores had them.  Boy was that a magical feeling seeing the price drop to $38 from $56.
> One thing to add as per the KZ Twitter page the Black will be in stock within 7 to 10 days while the purple and cyan are yet to be determined. Here the screenshot from the app.



Lol TRN V90 and KZ terminator are at each others' throats with this fan exclusive discount, both about ~39ish USD. Both multi driver IEMs and both released on same day (not sure if KZ and TRN knew about their competitor's release schedule). Well this can only be good for us consumers on the ground.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Yep +1 to this.
> ZS10 Pro is my favourite KZ IEM thus far, good allrounder.
> Agree it can do with more refinement in the treble. Some instruments in the treble sound a bit artificial as you say, but this is just a small nitpick from me. I suspect it has to do with the BA drivers they are using - are they Bellsings? I personally think Knowles drivers have a bit more accurate tonality but they are definitely more expensive. Well nothing much to complain about the ZS10 Pro at their cheap price range, great price to performance ratio IMHO.


+2! Still love my 10 PRO. Got a few sets of great iems, but the ZS10 PRO is still my favorite, fun, daily driver. Sounds great with the music I listen to (which is mostly old school rock from the 70's-90's, late 70's disco/funk...and pretty much anything else that's got a good beat). I've got hundreds of CD'S that I've ripped to FLAC or WMA, and am enjoying. I also got Spotify premium, which let's me listen to old or newer music, that I may eventually buy in CD format to rip.


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> Yep +1 to this.
> ZS10 Pro is my favourite KZ IEM thus far, good allrounder.
> Agree it can do with more refinement in the treble. Some instruments in the treble sound a bit artificial as you say, but this is just a small nitpick from me. I suspect it has to do with the BA drivers they are using - are they Bellsings? I personally think Knowles drivers have a bit more accurate tonality but they are definitely more expensive. Well nothing much to complain about the ZS10 Pro at their cheap price range, great price to performance ratio IMHO.



Yes off tonality is caused by their BA apparently. Yes i cant complain much since theyre on budget class that really bring great value to us. Just my 2 cents for KZ improvement in the future. But i think its difficult because its not about tuning, its from BA character tonality


----------



## courierdriver

MacAttack7 said:


> What is the nozzle size of the KZ ZS10 Pro? I'd like to try some spinfit tips just for the heck of it.
> I had the original generic tips on that came with my earphones & they didn't quite fit my right ear........kept working it's way out a bit.
> Then I switched to the starline tips that were provided & got a much better fit.
> Thought I'd try the spinfits too just for the heck of it.....even though the starlines are good.


Not sure of the exact size, but any tips with a 4.5-7mm core will fit. I have Spinfits (CP145) that will work, but I personally don't prefer silicon tips. I've got many from all the iems I've got and don't like how they seal to provide a good bass response. I'm a memory foam guy myself. I particularly like the  Newbee foams. They are smooth and comfortable (unlike Complys or Dekoni Bullets, which scratch the hell out of the insides of my ears and make me wanna take them out after a half hour or so), and really conform comfortably to my ears. They also have a wide bore, so you don't miss out on the mids and highs, yet give good isolation and bring forth the bass capability. Newbee also has a 6 set combo set, with 3 sets of silicones and 3 sets of foams. I've got this set, and I think it's around $8 or so. It's definitely worth checking out. Again, I'm more of a foam guy; but after owning Complys (at $26 from Amazon, for 1 set of S,M,L) and disliking they're comfort  and how they muddied the sound, I switched to Newbee's...and haven't looked back.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Haha we all have a stash of IEMs for different genres/moods. I probably need to see a psychologist for my IEM hoarding tendencies lol.
> 
> I use the ZS10 pro for more outdoor and robust activities where it has good isolation and I wouldn't cry if it does get damaged.


Yup, I agree. ZS10 PRO is around $45 CDN right now, on Ali. If they got into some horrible accident, I could easily replace them. Fun sound quality is stellar, though. I often have to force myself to NOT reach for these, and give attention to my other iems. Lol!


----------



## DynamicEars

Makahl said:


> Even though they aren't perfect at the treble timbre, it really amazes me sometimes its technical abilities. I don't even listen to Dio that much nowadays, but I was listening to Dio - The Last In Line and the intro part there's a small detail (similar to a fast metronome) on the right side, not even KPE and Oxygen could handle this detail so clearly. Also, cutting some dBs off at highs it makes the treble less steely IMO, but I'm really lazy in EQing it for every source so... I kind of got used to it, lol.



Yes advantage of multi driver with BA IEMs clearly on instrument separation, micro details, and ability to handle complex tracks without sounds congested or distorded even at high volume. I feel that too, I've stated that zS10 Pro a bit more detailed than my KP. Even actually tfz no 3 have more details than KP, only mid bass section that too much for me.

But unlucky for me that im concern about natural timbre, and too bad zs10 pro have that disadvantage. They can improve, not that im complain for the price, just my 2 cents for better future right?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DynamicEars said:


> But unlucky for me that im concern about natural timbre, and too bad zs10 pro have that disadvantage.


ZS10 Pro doesnt sound as natural as you want?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 20, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Newbee also has a 6 set combo set, with 3 sets of silicones and 3 sets of foams. I've got this set, and I think it's around $8 or so. It's definitely worth checking out. Again, I'm more of a foam guy; but after owning Complys (at $26 from Amazon, for 1 set of S,M,L) and disliking they're comfort  and how they muddied the sound, I switched to Newbee's...and haven't looked back.


I bought my Newbee foam and silicone set for $3US. I wonder if there are fakes out there?


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I find over ear type iems more difficult to wear because I can't just quickly pop them in and out.  With something that just goes straight in like the Moondrop Crescent or the Sony MH755, it is so easy to just put them in and out.  I always put them in far enough that they won't fall out when I move around.
> 
> Not all KZs are over ear... I love my ED9.
> 
> ...


I'm the opposite. Anything that just hangs down from my ears, is less than ideal, because the weight of the cable (plus getting it snagged on my shirt collar or the zipper of a jacket) pulls this type of design easily from my ears, or decreases the seal. I get how it may be easier to pop in...but for me it's also easier to pop out. I don't like having to keep pushing stuff deeper into my ears, to make them stay in, everytime I move. Over ear iems work much better for me, because there's that cable that loops over the ears, to help keep them in. I'd gladly take a few extra minutes to secure a set into my ears for a several hour listening session, than to have to keep resecuring something to keep a good seal multiple times, just to get them in quickly.


----------



## voicemaster

Just ordered the zsx, now the waiting game begins. xD


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I bought my Newbee foam and silicone set for $3. I wonder if there are fakes out there?


It's possible, but I think you probably just got a good deal. Last set I got on Ali couple of months ago cost me a bit less than $7 Cdn, with free Ali Standard shipping with tracking. That's compared to $13.99 Cdn from Amazon for just 6 sets of foams, 2 months earlier. Even the most expensive original set of Newbees, was STILL wayyy less expensive than the Complys that I originally bought last year,  at a whopping $25 for a 3 pack of S,M,L...one pair in each size. The Complys were rough feeling in my ears, and their wax guard foam screens just masked any highs. I've modded them by cutting out the wax guard screens, but they still don't sound as open as the Newbees.


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> ZS10 Pro doesnt sound as natural as you want?



Yes ZS10 pro timbre is off, not organic, too steely / metallic sound. Actually a lot of chifi in budget area sounds unnatural so it's normal, with all the goodness that KZ already bring, not complaining in this price just again, suggestion for better improvement. Good / natural timbre in this price section is BQEYZ KB100, tinhifi T2 for examples.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Yes ZS10 pro timbre is off, not organic, too steely / metallic sound. Actually a lot of chifi in budget area sounds unnatural so it's normal, with all the goodness that KZ already bring, not complaining in this price just again, suggestion for better improvement. Good / natural timbre in this price section is BQEYZ KB100, tinhifi T2 for examples.



For timbre, I like my JVC FX1100. Them woodies from JVC has some of the best and natural timbre in the IEM world.


----------



## courierdriver

DynamicEars said:


> ZS10 Pro actually pretty good in terms of technical abilities, They can handle complex tracks pretty well for budget price. Bass texture also nice, the sub bass also nice and no bleeds like usual chifi and earlier stage of KZs. If KZX have upgrades, I would suggest for more refine treble section, details but smooth and non piercing non tiring and tonality from low mids until highs. Their BAs still have very steely / weird tonality. I hope they are improving this.


Personally, I don't find the ZS10 PRO tiring at all. I can easily get 2.5-3 hours out of them, before I feel the need to get them out of my ears. After that amount of time, I'm usually ready to stop listening to music anyway. It's still much more than I could stand to listen to my full size, over ear headphones (with the exception of my Takstar Pro82...those, with their fun sound signature, light weight and unbelievably comfortable stock pads...are my favorite over ears).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> It's still much more than I could stand to listen to my full size, over ear headphones (with the exception of my Takstar Pro82...those, with their fun sound signature, light weight and unbelievably comfortable stock pads...are my favorite over ears).


Have you compared the Pro82 to the M40X? Those sounded better in a youtube video.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

I'm affraid of that high-frequency BA driver inside the nozzle. It evokes me a piercing treble. I'd rather wait for a measurement or at least for a review...


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Have you compared the Pro82 to the M40X? Those sounded better in a youtube video.


No, I have not. When I bought the Pro82, I was considering the M40X...but decided that the Pro82 was a better value. I watched Zreviews Youtube vids on both headphones, but decided on Pro82 for a few major reasons. 1- Pro82 came with a nice case, and already had great, comfortable pads installed as stock. Cost was $109 CDN on Amazon. 2- M40X had headband issues (those weird dual wing contraptions they use look uncomfortable af), and the pads were subpar, which would have required another investment of at least $60, on top of the already high $169 that Amazon sellers were selling them for. So, the M40X would have cost me around $229 CDN...plus taxes. And, no storage case.  Just cheap plastic bubble packaging. My Pro82 cost me $109, shipped straight from Asia...no taxes and no need to buy extra expensive pads. 3- Takstar has a 3 position switch, which allows one to temper/enhance the bass. Extra bonus, that the M40X doesn't offer. 4- Great quality removable cable, without the proprietary locking mechanism that M40X provides. The stock cable on the Takstar is soft and falls loosely. There's no need to immediately look to upgrade it. If it fails, there are many more aftermarket cables that will fit better than anything you can get for the AT M40X. Of the 3 over ear headphones I currently own, the Takstar Pro82 is the only one I will keep. Massdrop Hifiman 4XX planar and my Grado SR225'S are on their way out soon.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 20, 2019)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I'm affraid of that high-frequency BA driver inside the nozzle. It evokes me a piercing treble. I'd rather wait for a measurement or at least for a ZSX review...


Are you hinting that you aren't confident with KZ's ability to create a good iem?


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> For timbre, I like my JVC FX1100. Them woodies from JVC has some of the best and natural timbre in the IEM world.


I've been looking at the Drop collaboration on a set of JVC iems. Looks interesting...but the $280 price is outta my league.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Are you hinting that you aren't confident with KZ's ability to create a good iem?


No, never 
But their tuning is often a bit off ... AS16 - harshy mids ... AS12 - treble forward. And some are well tuned ... AS10, BA10...
I feel that KZ is experimenting with sound on purpose. They want to show what they can create. Then there's a CCA that tries to tune the earphones to listen to music .... It's just my impression.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

courierdriver said:


> I've been looking at the Drop collaboration on a set of JVC iems. Looks interesting...but the $280 price is outta my league.


It would be $500 after shipping and importation costs.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

xxAMAROKxx said:


> But their tuning is often a bit off ... AS16 - harshy mids ... AS12 - treble forward. And some are well tuned ... AS10, BA10...
> I feel that KZ is experimenting with sound on purpose. They want to show what they can create.


Lol. But your signature says the AS12 is one of your fave iems so it can't be that bad.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Aug 20, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Lol. But your signature says the AS12 is one of your fave iems so it can't be that bad.


AS12 is technically great, with its tuning suitable for some well mastered music. I always have to get used to their sound for a long time, It just doesn't sound balanced for me.  
EDIT: BQEYZ KB100 has arrived today and they will certainly replace AS12 and maybe also AS10.


----------



## scottySK (Aug 20, 2019)

Is there a current KZ that outshines the Tin T2? I find the ZS6 too recessed in mids and fatiguing. I like my AS10 but find them slightly veiled? when compared to the T2.

Is the ZS10 pros the best new offering? Would love to hear your thoughts!


----------



## Tonymac136

Finding IEMs that categorically outshine the T2 at the same money is virtually impossible. The ZS10 (non pro) digs up more detail but the instruments just don't sound as "real" for me and there is a lot of recession in the mid range. I've not heard either the pro or the zsx yet. I was about to order the 10 pro when I got distracted and bought a pair of CNT1s and a pair of KZ ED9s instead. Next month maybe.


----------



## SoundChoice

KZ ZS10 PRO

Month 1: Everyone agrees these are pretty good
Month 2: Everyone agrees these are amazing and something special
Month 3: EVERYONE AGREES THESE ARE PERFECTION AND THE BEST IEM EVER MADE AT ITS PRICE POINT!
Month 4: Everyone agrees that the timbre is off and treble is lacking, maybe the next release will be better


----------



## citral23 (Aug 20, 2019)

The treble is not lacking at all. It's even a bit on the agressive side (which does NOT mean detailed).

Mids are lacking imo.

I have not heard the T2, but being treble sensitive I very much doubt that treble canon would suit me, so saying it's "impossible to beat" doesn't sound right. Depends for who.


----------



## citral23

xxAMAROKxx said:


> No, never
> But their tuning is often a bit off ... AS16 - harshy mids ... AS12 - treble forward. And some are well tuned ... AS10, BA10...
> I feel that KZ is experimenting with sound on purpose. They want to show what they can create. Then there's a CCA that tries to tune the earphones to listen to music .... It's just my impression.



Sometimes I wonder if they're not slapping as many BAs as they can and hope for the best honestly. I just think the ZS7 is a "happy little accident".

When I listen to bqeyz I can immediately hear the effort put in the tuning. When I listen to ZS10 pro I'm like uh, that's erm... is it trying to be coherent?


----------



## Crandall

citral23 said:


> Sometimes I wonder if they're not slapping as many BAs as they can and hope for the best honestly. I just think the ZS7 is a "happy little accident".
> 
> When I listen to bqeyz I can immediately hear the effort put in the tuning. When I listen to ZS10 pro I'm like uh, that's erm... is it trying to be coherent?



How would you compare the ZS7 to the Kanas Pro? Obviously the Kanas Pro is going to be a lot more detailed and with less of a V shape, but do you think it's well worth the $100 price difference?


----------



## lgcubana

SoundChoice said:


> KZ ZS10 PRO
> 
> Month 1: Everyone agrees these are pretty good
> Month 2: Everyone agrees these are amazing and something special
> ...


My only problem with the ZS10 Pro: every time that I embrace them, I make the mistake of following up the next day with the ZS7s  

The ZS10 Pros are very friendly to EQing, which makes them an all around choice for me.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 20, 2019)

Crandall said:


> How would you compare the ZS7 to the Kanas Pro? Obviously the Kanas Pro is going to be a lot more detailed and with less of a V shape, but do you think it's well worth the $100 price difference?



Yes, the kanas pro is worth the 100$ difference, with the bqeyz KB100 too, imo.

KPE is much more organic, more detailed, less V, accurate tone/timbre, you already know it apparently 

As I've said many times in this thread, I prefer the ZS7 for death metal/EDM/Igorrrr/Kool Keith/WhateverIwantToBangMyHeadOn

But when I'm listening to Getz/Gilberto, Kind of Blue/5 by Monk by 5 in a silent house in the evening, it's the KPE.

I don't feel the need to buy anything more expensive because I'm in heaven with it tbh. The contrabass tone, I've not experienced on other IEMs (but then I've not listened to TOTL)

I use the KB100 for everyday use, it's not too far from KPE but it doesn't have that extra.

I'd like to get something better than ZS7 for the genres I use it for, but I'm kind of attached and happy with it it also.


----------



## Crandall

citral23 said:


> Yes, the kanas pro is worth the 100$ difference, with the bqeyz KB100 too, imo.
> 
> KPE is much more organic, more detailed, less V, accurate tone/timbre, you already know it apparently
> 
> ...



Sounds like I'm starting a small fund for some Kanas Pros. I love my ZS7 with a litle bit of EQ for metal and electronic music while I'm at work, but it always sounds a bit off with acoustic and piano music (or anything quiet, where I like to listen for the smallest details) to me even when putting a lot of work into a parametric EQ. The AS10's are better for it, but high treble and sub bass are both rolled off and boosting them seems to introduce a little bit of audible distortion.


----------



## Caipirina (Aug 20, 2019)

Regarding the ZSX ... from the initial teaser pic I was expecting an all black IEM, with blackened metal plate. This looks cool, special, different!




Seeing the offering now, my interest has waned enough that I will wait for reviews and maybe 11.11.

(Maybe the all black will be the ZSX Pro!  )


----------



## Zerohour88

SoundChoice said:


> KZ ZS10 PRO
> 
> Month 1: Everyone agrees these are pretty good
> Month 2: Everyone agrees these are amazing and something special
> ...



Everyone?


----------



## Assimilator702

citral23 said:


> The treble is not lacking at all. It's even a bit on the agressive side (which does NOT mean detailed).
> 
> Mids are lacking imo.
> 
> I have not heard the T2, but being treble sensitive I very much doubt that treble canon would suit me, so saying it's "impossible to beat" doesn't sound right. Depends for who.


Tin T2 with foam tips are  NOT treble cannons by a LONG shot. Don’t listen to anyone that says they are. Maybe with a tip that boosts treble but not with any tips Ive tried and aI have a decent selection. Even with silicone tips it’s sharp and detailed but not overbearing with no glaring peaks that reach out and punch you in the eardrums. 
I’m using KZ foam tips which have a fairly wide Bore and a touch larger than say a TRN foam tip or the tips some of the AE shops sell. Foam tips are not my preference since they’re not as durable as silicone, they can alter the sound signature too much and they get dirty if you dare to look at them. I unfortunately have to use foam tips due to the shallow housing which prevents a seal in my case. Tin HiFi needs to rework the nozzle to be angled slightly to allow for deeper insertion considering the very shallow depth of the earpiece. Beautifully built earpieces......just a bit too shallow and a slightly confusing fit as it’s not immediately  apparent it should be worn wire over the ear as it’s intended. 

Now if Tin HIFI could design a housing along the lines of what KZ uses in a ZSN/C10 or even a semi custom resin shell that would be a difficult one to beat. I’m sure they’re trying to be different but I believe it’s at their disadvantage.


----------



## nraymond

Assimilator702 said:


> Tin T2 with foam tips are NOT treble cannons by a LONG shot. Don’t listen to anyone that says they are. Maybe with a tip that boosts treble but not with any tips Ive tried and aI have a decent selection. Even with silicone tips it’s sharp and detailed but not overbearing with no glaring peaks that reach out and punch you in the eardrums.



With some of the recent discussions on people experiencing different things with earphones (and noticing that myself - that reviews tend to fall under a few different groups of experiences), I did a lot more thinking on the topic... I used to think it was probably just down to a combination of fit issues/age/hearing damage that were creating the variations in experience. While I think those can be factors, I think human physiology combined with head related transfer functions (HRTFs) are also significant. Specifically, if you look at Rtings.com video from a couple of years back entitled "Headphones Frequency Response: Challenges & Solutions" they explore the topic of physiology and external ear structure with regard to the challenges of over-ear and on-ear headphones:



What I hadn't fully considered is that since each of our pinna's are different (differently shaped helix, antihelix, tragus, antitragus, etc.) that means that each of our brains is hard-wired for our individual ear shape. Thus, with earphones that sit in the ear canal, we're bypassing that external ear hardware, but our individual HRTF in our brains is still in full effect, expecting sound coming into our ear to be shaped by our own external ear. That means that each of us has a slightly different (perhaps very different in some cases, depending on the ears in question) filter being applied to earphone audio. I would expect that if we and reviewers had 3D scans done of our external ears we could have a weighted ranking assigned to match ourselves up to reviewers (ideally also taking into account other hearing capabilities), and then we'd likely find reviews and perceptions that more closely match ours. It also means that minus any earphone design flaws (fit issues, distortion, significant emphasis/de-emphasis in frequency response) there are fundamentally more and less "correct" earphones for each of our ears. Unfortunately, this makes discussing and generalizing earphone performance even more problematic than on-ear/over-ear headphones (and depending on your physical ears and hearing ability, it might make sense to listen to some people who have certain experiences with certain earphones more than others).

On the topic of eartips, I think that can get complicated... I've never used a pair of foam tips I can tolerate for long (the sensation of foam pressing against my ear canal is distracting/annoying to me), so while in general foam is a useful way to tame highs, I and others bothered by foam tips can't use them. Medium silicone tips work well for me, and I keep about a dozen different types of silicon eartips around and try them out on ear of my earphones to find the best combination of physical fit and acoustic match (silicone tips have a surprising range of effects on the sound depending on bore size, bore length, hybrid or not, thickness of the silicone, shape of the silicone, which I think affect both the acoustics and bass sensations i.e. literally the quality of the vibrations of the low frequency sound). I'm sure my individual ears have an impact on all of that to - for instance, I've learned that my left ear canal is slightly larger than my right, and heavier earphones will just slowly slip out of my left ear if the ear tip doesn't exert enough physical pressure relative to the balance of the earphone in the ear. So, as with many things in life, your mileage may vary (YMMV)... and I for one thank everyone here for sharing their experiences, since I leverage everything that everyone shares to infer and estimate what I think my experiences likely will be before I purchase anything.


----------



## Podster

Pod's simple (on the food/taste scale) breakdown of his current KZ rotation Needless to say I'm far beyond any psychiatric help Let's go clockwise starting with the BA10's





BA10 = Butter
ZS7 = Gravy
ZS10 Pro = Bacon
ZS6 (Gray with the supposed better bass output) = Biscuits

A strong cup of coffee and breakfast is served

And like my fellow iem Psychos I do have some better iem's to compare these too as well





Of course the real scary part is none of these are my most expensive ones These three pair represent $1100 alone (Guess the closest to "A Fool" emoticon I can find is )





To re-iterate how far over the edge I've gone I'd say 99.9% of the earths populous would be tickled pink to just have this killer $39 setup


----------



## clerkpalmer

Podster said:


> Pod's simple (on the food/taste scale) breakdown of his current KZ rotation Needless to say I'm far beyond any psychiatric help Let's go clockwise starting with the BA10's
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice collection. What’s your favorite sub 200 iem? Fun and musical versus accurate and balanced.


----------



## Podster (Aug 20, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> Nice collection. What’s your favorite sub 200 iem? Fun and musical versus accurate and balanced.



Excellent question and you have to remember this is based on my ears and I've always said we all hear them differently but my two faves sub $200 are the Tone King 9 Tails and the Kinera IDUN's but my trusty A4's IMHO can hang with either (I got  my A4's for $195 before they jumped up upon popularity)!

I also agree with @Assimilator702 that the T2's are far from any kind of a treble cannon and as a matter a fact these two have always been a dead draw for my hearing if that can give anyone the area (range) I hear in






Problem is/was the T2's are the most ill fitting iem I've ever had and guess it's just my ear shape, they are so painful for me to just seat them much less wear them and my old D2000's were about the same shape but I could wear them! (Long since been gifted away)


----------



## MacAttack7

SoundChoice said:


> KZ ZS10 PRO
> 
> Month 1: Everyone agrees these are pretty good
> Month 2: Everyone agrees these are amazing and something special
> ...


That's funny. I was planning on buying a cheap pair of earphones for work such as the KZ ED9, but then I get brainwashed by all of the praise & hype for the KZ ZS10 Pro, and I just can't bring myself to buy the cheap pair when this one is so much better & still a "reasonable" price.
So my budget goes from $12 to $40 for something I never even wanted or needed to begin with.
I told my girlfriend I always fall for this & in a few weeks there will be nothing but negative comments, but I just can't help myself.

I did the same thing with the ED16. There was nothing but praise. Now it sucks I guess. 
I actually just started liking it after all this time. I could never get a snug fit with it in my right ear, but now I finally tried double-flange eartips for the first time & all is well.
I don't even know how you all tell the difference between these earphones. ED16 sounds good to me. ZS10 Pro sounds good to me. I couldn't really tell you what's different about them.
All I know for sure is that soon they will both be hated.


----------



## citral23

Assimilator702 said:


> Tin T2 with foam tips are  NOT treble cannons by a LONG shot. Don’t listen to anyone that says they are. Maybe with a tip that boosts treble but not with any tips Ive tried and aI have a decent selection. Even with silicone tips it’s sharp and detailed but not overbearing with no glaring peaks that reach out and punch you in the eardrums.
> I’m using KZ foam tips which have a fairly wide Bore and a touch larger than say a TRN foam tip or the tips some of the AE shops sell. Foam tips are not my preference since they’re not as durable as silicone, they can alter the sound signature too much and they get dirty if you dare to look at them. I unfortunately have to use foam tips due to the shallow housing which prevents a seal in my case. Tin HiFi needs to rework the nozzle to be angled slightly to allow for deeper insertion considering the very shallow depth of the earpiece. Beautifully built earpieces......just a bit too shallow and a slightly confusing fit as it’s not immediately  apparent it should be worn wire over the ear as it’s intended.
> 
> Now if Tin HIFI could design a housing along the lines of what KZ uses in a ZSN/C10 or even a semi custom resin shell that would be a difficult one to beat. I’m sure they’re trying to be different but I believe it’s at their disadvantage.



I hate foam tips. Just touching them gives me EBOLA.

And I'm only judging the T2 treble on its frequency response, it's been posted on numerous places all over the internet. While it doesn't say how's the tonality, it gives a decent idea if one will like it or not. Pass for me, YMMV.


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> I hate foam tips. Just touching them gives me EBOLA



I thought I was the only one.  I cannot stand to touch foam tips either...and yet, I sometimes wear foam earplugs for sleeping..  They have a different feel.


----------



## Assimilator702 (Aug 23, 2019)

citral23 said:


> I hate foam tips. Just touching them gives me EBOLA.
> 
> And I'm only judging the T2 treble on its frequency response, it's been posted on numerous places all over the internet. While it doesn't say how's the tonality, it gives a decent idea if one will like it or not. Pass for me, YMMV.


You can’t judge tonality or timbre accuracy from a frequency response graph. You can have 2 sets with exact FR but sound completely different.
I resisted trying the Tin T2 and just tried them for the first time this month. Other than the fit which is not the best the sound is miles above anything in the budget category and can easily compete with $140+ sets. DMG I’m looking at you. You can grab them on AE for less than $30 and it’s the iem sound wise ......not considering the fit since it’s truely awful......I would recommend to ANYONE that enjoys listening to music.


----------



## citral23

Yes, I said it doesn't say anything about tonality nor timbre. Reading 101. You don't *have to* shill it so hard you know.


----------



## Assimilator702

citral23 said:


> Yes, I said it doesn't say anything about tonality nor timbre. Reading 101. You don't *have to* shill it so hard you know.



Who’s shilling? You said frequency response. That’s what I was referencing. Reading 101.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 20, 2019)

What's so hard to understand? Frequency response tells me how much bass/mids/treble there is, at which frequencies. Not how bass/mids/treble will sound (tonality/timbre). Plastic, organic, in your face, laid back etc.

The T2 has a LOT of treble. And little bass. Some people don't hear treble much, it decays with age also, so it doesn't bother them. Again, YMMV. We're all different.

Allow me to make an analogy : some people don't hear the bass roll-off of the 100 ohms Zishan Z2 on low z iems, and recommend it to everyone. Ok, but it's not because they can't hear it that it isn't there, and it's therefore not really a universal recommendation. Imo.


----------



## Podster

citral23 said:


> Yes, I said it doesn't say anything about tonality nor timbre. Reading 101. You don't *have to* shill it so hard you know.



?, Shill or hype? I won't and would not hype any iem but I also don't trust graphs simply because we all hear them differently and I do stand by my statement regardless of what so many other have reported the T2 is far from any kind of a treble cannon and for my ears sometimes they sound dark. Not sure I agree they can take out any $200 iem's but for sure they are worth their asking price IMO. That answer  me as if any iem was a treble cannon it would for sure affect both tonality and timbre


----------



## Podster

citral23 said:


> What's so hard to understand? Frequency response tells me how much bass/mids/treble there is, at which frequencies. Not how bass/mids/treble will sound (tonality/timbre). Plastic, organic, in your face, laid back etc.
> 
> The T2 has a LOT of treble. And little bass. Some people don't hear treble much, it decays with age also, so it doesn't bother them. Again, YMMV. We're all different.
> 
> Allow me to make an analogy : some people don't hear the bass roll-off of the 100 ohms Zishan Z2 on low z iems, and recommend it to everyone. Ok, but it's not because they can't hear it that it isn't there, and it's therefore not really a universal recommendation. Imo.



Ah, I get your point now


----------



## moisespr123

Ordered the ZSX. Hope they don't disappoint!


----------



## Mouseman

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought I was the only one.  I cannot stand to touch foam tips either...and yet, I sometimes wear foam earplugs for sleeping..  They have a different feel.


You're not alone in this. I *hate *foam tips, and tried several brands. I wear double or triple flange earplugs sometimes, but don't like foam in my ears, either.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Yup. I cant do foam tips either. They just irritate me and end up itching so bad I have to constantly take them out and finger bang my earhole. More power to peeps that can use em. I really wanted to use them back when I was treble sensitive, but just couldn't get used to them.


----------



## Nailzs

Love me some foam tips! Love my memory foam pillow too!


----------



## DynamicEars

SoundChoice said:


> KZ ZS10 PRO
> 
> Month 1: Everyone agrees these are pretty good
> Month 2: Everyone agrees these are amazing and something special
> ...



That's the trend dude. But for me, i just straight away to tell that timbre is off, but not lacking trebles, trebles are way too much for my taste. They have great technicalities, great value, but compared to higher tier IEMS they sound harsher. They're getting better but not quite smooth as BQEYZ yet, or tinhifi's



citral23 said:


> The treble is not lacking at all. It's even a bit on the agressive side (which does NOT mean detailed).
> 
> Mids are lacking imo.
> 
> I have not heard the T2, but being treble sensitive I very much doubt that treble canon would suit me, so saying it's "impossible to beat" doesn't sound right. Depends for who.



this is true, my comments about ZS10 PRO is mimic yours. I have T2, they are on bright side because lacking bass for my taste but trebles are not aggresive and rough. Tonality is good on T2.



Crandall said:


> Sounds like I'm starting a small fund for some Kanas Pros. I love my ZS7 with a litle bit of EQ for metal and electronic music while I'm at work, but it always sounds a bit off with acoustic and piano music (or anything quiet, where I like to listen for the smallest details) to me even when putting a lot of work into a parametric EQ. The AS10's are better for it, but high treble and sub bass are both rolled off and boosting them seems to introduce a little bit of audible distortion.



If Kanas Pro is your first above $100 iems, you'll be surprised and regret. Regret that you've spend too much on budget level iems that buy more sidegrade rather than significant upgrade. And KP will make you realize and starting point to listen on another level IEM. But instead i also recommend KXXS, its a slight refinement of KP with thicker mids and a slight touch of mid bass to complete overall signature. ( I don't have KXXS because I already own KP but you check there is a lot of comparison on the moondrop thread)



Anyway, looking forward to KZX impressions and reviews


----------



## Crandall

DynamicEars said:


> That's the trend dude. But for me, i just straight away to tell that timbre is off, but not lacking trebles, trebles are way too much for my taste. They have great technicalities, great value, but compared to higher tier IEMS they sound harsher. They're getting better but not quite smooth as BQEYZ yet, or tinhifi's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would be the first, luckily I can count all the IEMs I've bought in the last 15 years on one hand. (Senn cx300, brainwavz m2, KZ AS10 & ZS7)


----------



## SoundChoice

Zerohour88 said:


> Everyone?



Congratulations: you have successfully fact-checked hyperbole.


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It would be $500 after shipping and importation costs.


I agree, which is why I have yet to buy anything from Drop. My brother in law has bought several items from them over the years, and he has told me that he has always been dinged with extra duties and taxes. That's on top of the currency conversion from USD to CDN $. I never feel like anything is a good deal with them, especially since I'm in Canada. Everything ends up costing more than I can get it from  Amazon or Aliexpress.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I thought I was the only one.  I cannot stand to touch foam tips either...and yet, I sometimes wear foam earplugs for sleeping..  They have a different feel.


I feel the opposite as I like foams more than silicones because every silicon tips I've tried, makes the insides of my ears sweat. With that said though, I have also experienced itchiness with certain foams like from Comply and Dekoni. Only foams I like and use on all of my iems is Newbee foams. They have a nice smooth texture and are comfortable to wear for hours. My ears don't sweat with these, and they are easy enough to clean. Quite inexpensive also compared to alot of popular silicones like Spinfits and foams from Comply.


----------



## Unolord

courierdriver said:


> I agree, which is why I have yet to buy anything from Drop. My brother in law has bought several items from them over the years, and he has told me that he has always been dinged with extra duties and taxes. That's on top of the currency conversion from USD to CDN $. I never feel like anything is a good deal with them, especially since I'm in Canada. Everything ends up costing more than I can get it from  Amazon or Aliexpress.



I got the Macaw GT600S from Massdrop back in January. Wasn't hit with duties but from what I've read/heard, my order slipped through duty free and that isn't the norm.


----------



## courierdriver

Unolord said:


> I got the Macaw GT600S from Massdrop back in January. Wasn't hit with duties but from what I've read/heard, my order slipped through duty free and that isn't the norm.


Yeah, you got lucky and must of slipped through the cracks that day. Congrats!


----------



## Unolord

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, you got lucky and must of slipped through the cracks that day. Congrats!



I know, right.

I've held off buying several drops in the past due to the risk of duties. I don't mind the tax so much as the bogus "handling fee" that gets tacked on. 

Now I just avoid drops because the deals are generally not there for the stuff I want. I got my ZS10 Pros off Gearbest for a cheaper price than Drop. I think it was even cheaper on AliExpress at the time.


----------



## Zerohour88

SoundChoice said:


> Congratulations: you have successfully fact-checked hyperbole.



Thanks. I like to call out bull hyperbole.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I don't like my ZS6 v3 but I will try to bring life back into it. I have six unused cables from various sources... mostly stock KZ cables and I will try my best to make these sound usable once and for all!


----------



## igorneumann

Dunno, Im not excited about the Terminator... 

I think after so many years hoarding KZs, I got numb about drivers count and was looking at BETTER drivers (knowles BA).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 21, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> Dunno, Im not excited about the Terminator...
> 
> I think after so many years hoarding KZs, I got numb about drivers count and was looking at BETTER drivers (knowles BA).


Me neither, I've bought too many KZ's that I was probably the one that paid the R&D for the TSX.

Who knows maybe they'll hit a home run? The price is sure affordable.

If they aren't good people will call the TSX, the Turdinator's.


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Me neither, I've bought too many KZ's that I was probably the one that paid the R&D for the TSX.
> 
> Who knows maybe they'll hit a home run? The price is sure affordable.
> 
> If they aren't good people will call the TSX, the Turdinator's.



The sad thing is that, we will just know if its a homerun in about 3-4 months.
I mean, doesnt matter how bad it sounds everyone will say its awesome on launch.

For my next (non-kz) acquisition Im really between the Trii i4 for those sweet knowles BA or the NiceHCK NX7 because im a sucker for overcomplicated crap.
(Yeah, that "im over driver count" apparently is nulled when you trow in yet another driver tech mixed)


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Me neither, I've bought too many KZ's that I was probably the one that paid the R&D for the TSX.
> 
> Who knows maybe they'll hit a home run? The price is sure affordable.
> 
> If they aren't good people will call the TSX, the Turdinator's.



I'm with u guys on the terminator. Of the new CHIFI IEMs that just launched or are gonna launch, I'm more excited about the BQEYZ Spring 1 and TRN V90. The terminator is the least interesting to me unfortunately.

There was a point in time like 2 years ago when I was eagerly anticipating the next KZ launch, but now I'm getting fatigued by all the side grades coming out every few weeks from KZ. KZ was the pioneer that ushered in the budget CHIFI industry but I'm sad to say some other budget CHIFI brands have caught up or even overtaken KZ in terms of their tuning.

Having said that, the price is quite good for a new launch multi driver IEM. I do wish KZ well and hope this can be a giant killer, but based on their recent track record, I'm gonna wait for reviews first.


----------



## igorneumann

baskingshark said:


> I'm with u guys on the terminator. Of the new CHIFI IEMs that just launched or are gonna launch, I'm more excited about the BQEYZ Spring 1 and TRN V90. The terminator is the least interesting to me unfortunately.
> 
> There was a point in time like 2 years ago when I was eagerly anticipating the next KZ launch, but now I'm getting fatigued by all the side grades coming out every few weeks from KZ. KZ was the pioneer that ushered in the budget CHIFI industry but I'm sad to say some other budget CHIFI brands have caught up or even overtaken KZ in terms of their tuning.
> 
> Having said that, the price is quite good for a new launch multi driver IEM. I do wish KZ well and hope this can be a giant killer, but based on their recent track record, I'm gonna wait for reviews first.



A bit offtopic as its a TRN comment, but Im not holding my breath on the v90 neither...

For 2 reasons:

1 - They alternate on launching a good looking IEM and a ugly one...

V10 - Awesome looks (wish it sounded as good)
V20 - Is that a cheapo space heater?
V30 - Errr... nice As10 clone, I guess
V60 - Thats weird bro... Disjointed and uninspired
V80 - Awesome look
V90 - Meh

2 - The TRN 2019 line sounds worse than their 2018 line...
IM1 and v80 (2018) are among my favourite IEMs...
IM2 and x6 aare a big letdown, and not a cheap one in the x6.

So I expect this one to have a bassless uninspired signature if they keep up with their awful 2019 trend and it looks line the v20 Space heater had a baby wioth the v60 disjointed shape.

Thats it, TRN needs to get their s*** together.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 21, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> A bit offtopic as its a TRN comment, but Im not holding my breath on the v90 neither...
> 
> For 2 reasons:
> 
> ...



For TRN X6, I have some friends who love it for stage monitoring but they agree the sound is a let down for general music listening.

As for the looks part, I go for sound quality over looks. As long as the headphone/IEM doesn't look like one of these stuff that prohibits me from walking down the street:




 

 




The Toneking ninetails is one of my favourite IEMs soundwise but looks weird lol.
KZ terminator looks baddass though, and I hope the sound will be as kickass as the looks.


----------



## igorneumann

baskingshark said:


> For TRN X6, I have some friends who love it for stage monitoring but they agree the sound is a let down for general music listening.
> 
> As for the looks part, I go for sound quality over looks. As long as the headphone/IEM doesn't look like one of these stuff that prohibits me from walking down the street:
> 
> ...



I use to say the same about looks... but after my 30th IEM I realize I could save some dime passing on the ugly ones and a therapist would still be worried about the amount I buy.
Unless its an awesome sound you cant get on any other for that price, it needs to looks good for me now.

Ps.: Let me know if any friend want a big discounted X6 used for less than 5 minutes.


----------



## mbwilson111

igorneumann said:


> V20 - Is that a cheapo space heater?





baskingshark said:


> For TRN X6, I have some friends who love it for stage monitoring but they agree the sound is a let down for general music listening



I like them both.


----------



## igorneumann

mbwilson111 said:


> I like them both.



Oh, I have no idea how the v20 sounds like... I just find it ugly!
I mean... its like sticking one of those to your ears:





But liking the x6 does surprise me, for music listening?
Did you went back to it after the "new toy excitement" weared off?


----------



## youngarthur

Well, I really really tried. My KZ buds, wouldn't connect, after many hours, trying different things. Ali express want video of problem, but video won't load to their website, only Photos, which, understandingly, they won't accept.I have purchased many items, from many companies, and never had a problem, so after backwards and forwards, texts, form filling etc.,I have a final solution, throw them in the bin.Problem solved!.


----------



## RikudouGoku

DynamicEars said:


> That's the trend dude. But for me, i just straight away to tell that timbre is off, but not lacking trebles, trebles are way too much for my taste. They have great technicalities, great value, but compared to higher tier IEMS they sound harsher. They're getting better but not quite smooth as BQEYZ yet, or tinhifi's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed with the above 100 usd iems. I checked out TFZ no.3 and Audiosense T800 and i am starting to regret buying so many KZs that are not really huge upgrades.


----------



## igorneumann

youngarthur said:


> Well, I really really tried. My KZ buds, wouldn't connect, after many hours, trying different things. Ali express want video of problem, but video won't load to their website, only Photos, which, understandingly, they won't accept.I have purchased many items, from many companies, and never had a problem, so after backwards and forwards, texts, form filling etc.,I have a final solution, throw them in the bin.Problem solved!.



Post the video on youtube and send the link.


----------



## SiggyFraud

igorneumann said:


> Oh, I have no idea how the v20 sounds like... I just find it ugly!
> I mean... its like sticking one of those to your ears:
> 
> 
> ...


V20 actually looked quite nice in real life, especially the black ones. Lightweight and comfy too. Sold my pair after a while as it wasn't getting much listening time with all the new gear.


----------



## auraldesire95

Is it worth waiting for the ZSX reviews or shall I order the ZS10 Pro?


----------



## baskingshark

auraldesire95 said:


> Is it worth waiting for the ZSX reviews or shall I order the ZS10 Pro?



The ZS10 Pro is generally well regarded by the budget CHIFI community and is a safer buy as of now. 

I personally will wait for ZSX reviews. But it might take 2 - 3 weeks for the first reviews to filter out. In general IEMs are more expensive when they first release and over next few months the price usually drops, so if you ain't in a rush, it is safer to wait and maybe the price might drop in the future, especially with 11-11 coming round the corner.

Well you can be a brave guinea pig and be one of the first ZSX owners and let us know your impressions!


----------



## BrunoC

There's an AliExpress sale starting in some days.


----------



## mbwilson111

igorneumann said:


> But liking the x6 does surprise me, for music listening?
> Did you went back to it after the "new toy excitement" weared off?



Yes... and I treated it to a nice balanced cable.  But, if you look at my list you will realize that I cannot possibly give any one thing the time it deserves.



Spoiler: photo of a non-kz iem


----------



## Podster (Aug 21, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> The ZS10 Pro is generally well regarded by the budget CHIFI community and is a safer buy as of now.
> 
> I personally will wait for ZSX reviews. But it might take 2 - 3 weeks for the first reviews to filter out. In general IEMs are more expensive when they first release and over next few months the price usually drops, so if you ain't in a rush, it is safer to wait and maybe the price might drop in the future, especially with 11-11 coming round the corner.
> 
> Well you can be a brave guinea pig and be one of the first ZSX owners and let us know your impressions!



I'll throw in the caveat if the community goes ape $#!T and a major hype train ensues the price usually rises until the next train arrives

@mbwilson111 Sweet cable on that TRN as well


----------



## auraldesire95

baskingshark said:


> The ZS10 Pro is generally well regarded by the budget CHIFI community and is a safer buy as of now.
> 
> I personally will wait for ZSX reviews. But it might take 2 - 3 weeks for the first reviews to filter out. In general IEMs are more expensive when they first release and over next few months the price usually drops, so if you ain't in a rush, it is safer to wait and maybe the price might drop in the future, especially with 11-11 coming round the corner.
> 
> Well you can be a brave guinea pig and be one of the first ZSX owners and let us know your impressions!


The reason I ask is because the ZS10 Pro is £31.11 from the KZ Official Store and the ZSX is £32.37 from NiceHCK Audio Store.


----------



## mbwilson111

auraldesire95 said:


> The reason I ask is because the ZS10 Pro is £31.11 from the KZ Official Store and the ZSX is £32.37 from NiceHCK Audio Store.



Be the guinea pig if you can spare the cash


----------



## baskingshark

Podster said:


> I'll throw in the caveat if the community goes ape $#!T and a major hype train ensues the price usually rises until the next train arrives
> 
> @mbwilson111 Sweet cable on that TRN as well



Yep agree there is always that caveat, but I think there are more misses than hits recently, especially for KZ.

The recent strange price increase to me was that of the **** from 19ish USD to 27 USD, and it happened many months after release lol.


----------



## SoundChoice

auraldesire95 said:


> Is it worth waiting for the ZSX reviews or shall I order the ZS10 Pro?



ZS10 Pro: Generally praised and withstood the test of time and many diverse listeners
Every new IEM review: "Thanks to Judy at Marketmania for the free sample, these are amazing!"

Given that the initial ZSX reviews will be like the latter, the safer wager is to go with the ZS10 Pro.

It's possible that KZ caught lightning in a bottle twice in a row, but that's generally not the way to bet in Sidegrade City.


----------



## baskingshark

auraldesire95 said:


> The reason I ask is because the ZS10 Pro is £31.11 from the KZ Official Store and the ZSX is £32.37 from NiceHCK Audio Store.



This special ZSX price is a "fan exclusive discount" if you follow the NICEHCK store on the aliexpress app. The TRN V90 is similarly discounted.
I suspect these fan discounts will expire by next week once some buyers grab those, and they will be back to more expensive prices.
That's nevertheless good price IMHO but I have too many multi driver CHIFI IEMs, so I've gotta control my trigger finger and wait for reviews. Too many pokemon KZs in my stable lol.


----------



## igorneumann

SiggyFraud said:


> V20 actually looked quite nice in real life, especially the black ones. Lightweight and comfy too. Sold my pair after a while as it wasn't getting much listening time with all the new gear.



Oh, Im glad to know Its nicer in hands than the photos. 

Thanks.


----------



## Podster (Aug 21, 2019)

SoundChoice said:


> ZS10 Pro: Generally praised and withstood the test of time and many diverse listeners
> Every new IEM review: "Thanks to Judy at Marketmania for the free sample, these are amazing!"
> 
> Given that the initial ZSX reviews will be like the latter, the safer wager is to go with the ZS10 Pro.
> ...



Well what I've seen over the years with KZ and of course it sparks release after release or upgrade re-release is they tend to do a quick fixes based off a lot of initial impressions from this community alone! The ZS3 got fixed IMO with the ZS4, the ZSN got fixed (by a long shot by me) the ZS10 Pro and then there are models that took multiple steps like the ZS5 V1/V2, ZS6 and on to what I consider the pinnacle of KZ semi copy shell with the ZS7. Different in sound signature to the ZS10 Pro however with the right genre's they both have the strengths to make them on level par but once again let me say that is to my ears and of course YMMV This also coming from someone who never bought one of the teardrop models with the visible circuit boards through the faceplate because they just did not appeal to me sorta like the CC iem's I never bought those because I did not care much for the look and by all accounts and what I've  read out here most have a KZ counterpart or something extremely close This is just a small sampling because they have really done this from early on with models like ATE etc.


----------



## youngarthur

igorneumann said:


> Post the video on youtube and send the link.


That was a very good idea, which I didn't think of, but I threw them away in disgust!!.


----------



## Podster

youngarthur said:


> That was a very good idea, which I didn't think of, but I threw them away in disgust!!.



Nothing like a negative social media post to get ones attention


----------



## Slater

igorneumann said:


> Post the video on youtube and send the link.



That’s what I do. Makes life much easier.


----------



## igorneumann

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes... and I treated it to a nice balanced cable.  But, if you look at my list you will realize that I cannot possibly give any one thing the time it deserves.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: photo of a non-kz iem



I feel your pain... 

I actually checked your list today and it made feel so much better about my, moderate in comparison, hoarding habits.

Thank you!


----------



## youngarthur

Podster said:


> Nothing like a negative social media post to get ones attention


Very sorry if I offended anyone.Posted out of frustration.


----------



## Podster

youngarthur said:


> Very sorry if I offended anyone.Posted out of frustration.



Not at all Arthur, I think it brilliant if one of the Chinese Vendors does not respond to issues turn up the heat by posting the event or problem where God and everyone can see they may or may not be what/who they claim to be especially when they might taught excellent customer support


----------



## darmanastartes

I will be getting both the ZSX and the V90 for review, so stay tuned for comparisons.


----------



## baskingshark

darmanastartes said:


> I will be getting both the ZSX and the V90 for review, so stay tuned for comparisons.



Thanks for taking one for the team.
Look forward to your reviews! Your previous reviews were great too.


----------



## nraymond

youngarthur said:


> I have a final solution, throw them in the bin.Problem solved!.



Sorry to hear that. Not sure if you've physically thrown them in the trash, and of course I don't know the disposal/recycling rules where you are, but just a friendly reminder for folks that in a lot of places you can't put things with lithium batteries in the trash, they need to go to an e-waste recycler so they don't leach into ground water or get incinerated (of course the e-waste recycling situation is a complicated one, since it had been globally economical up until recently because of lax regulations in places like China... then in 2017 the documentary "Plastic China" came out which resulted in a new National Sword policy in China which prohibits many types of waste from entering the country which has effectively shuttered China as a destination for recycling... hopefully the countries of the world will figure out how to recycle things the right way for all our sakes, since shipping waste back overseas on container ships was kind of a crazy thing to do to begin with).


----------



## KipNix

Mouseman said:


> You're not alone in this. I *hate *foam tips, and tried several brands. I wear double or triple flange earplugs sometimes, but don't like foam in my ears, either.


I'm one of those who got on the Foam Bandwagon a while ago. 
I couldn't figure out why my new IEMs weren't giving me the "great sound" others were getting; missing bass and mids. I finally ditched my ego, went back to silicone tips that fit properly, and re-discovered the missing "greatness".


----------



## igorneumann

KipNix said:


> I'm one of those who got on the Foam Bandwagon a while ago.
> I couldn't figure out why my new IEMs weren't giving me the "great sound" others were getting; missing bass and mids. I finally ditched my ego, went back to silicone tips that fit properly, and re-discovered the missing "greatness".



I just use foam tips in the ZS6 because of how painful its to use it otherwise.


----------



## Podster

The best for everyone is find a reviewer they can relate best to by what they hear the same Of course no two people will align 100% but for sure if you are within an 80/85%'tile you'll like/love what they do


----------



## Zerohour88 (Aug 21, 2019)

Podster said:


> The best for everyone is find a reviewer they can relate best to by what they hear the same Of course no two people will align 100% but for sure if you are within an 80/85%'tile you'll like/love what they do



me? lolnope, learnt this after my 2nd purchase 3 years ago or so (basically got into KZ during the ZS3-ZST-ATR debacle)

I'm just reminding people (or at least telling since it seems people don't know this). That's how you get stupid remarks like "WTH, EVERYONE SAID THIS WAS GREAT BUT I BOUGHT IT AND I DON'T THINK ITS GREAT".

The other thing I'm always bored of hearing is about how "tuning matters more" like its some kind of wise secret passed down among the monks of audio.


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> me? lolnope, learnt this after my 2nd purchase 3 years ago or so (basically got into KZ during the ZS3-ZST-ATR debacle)
> 
> I'm just reminding people (or at least telling since it seems people don't know this). That's how you get stupid remarks like "WTH, EVERYONE SAID THIS WAS GREAT BUT I BOUGHT IT AND I DON'T THINK ITS GREAT".
> 
> The other thing I'm always bored of hearing is about how "tuning matters more" like its some kind of wise secret passed down among the monks of audio.



Ah, Monks of audio. Those guys that make the killer $5 ear buds Yeah, you know a lot of people just stopped hanging here because of those who open the trap before making sure the bait is good Then you have those that can't heed graphs and reviews then it becomes a tuning issue! My fave is when all else fails we can start down the Tonality/Timber trail ala Peter cottontail


----------



## courierdriver

Unolord said:


> I know, right.
> 
> I've held off buying several drops in the past due to the risk of duties. I don't mind the tax so much as the bogus "handling fee" that gets tacked on.
> 
> Now I just avoid drops because the deals are generally not there for the stuff I want. I got my ZS10 Pros off Gearbest for a cheaper price than Drop. I think it was even cheaper on AliExpress at the time.


I bought my second set of ZS10 PRO'S from Aliexpress in June, during their mid year sale. $37 CDN, including shipping with tracking. And no extra fees. They just landed in my mailbox about 2.5 weeks after I ordered them. I've been really impressed with Aliexpress so far.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for taking one for the team.
> Look forward to your reviews! Your previous reviews were great too.


+1! I've got both the V90 and ZSX in my cart at the moment. A comparison would be hugely appreciated.


----------



## HungryPanda

28th August is the one day Aliexpress summer sale


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> 28th August is the one day Aliexpress summer sale


Great...same day I get paid. If I'm smart, I'd buy an dap with a balanced output. But I'm not, so I'll probably get more iems. Sigh...


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Great...same day I get paid. If I'm smart, I'd buy an dap with a balanced output. But I'm not, so I'll probably get more iems. Sigh...



Get an ES100

Low output impedance, Dual AK4375a, USB DAC, Qualcomm CSR8675 Bluetooth 5.0 receiver, balanced output, app with loads of hardware control, custom EQ profiles, aptX, aptX-HD, AAC, LDAC...


----------



## Podster

courierdriver said:


> Great...same day I get paid. If I'm smart, I'd buy an dap with a balanced output. But I'm not, so I'll probably get more iems. Sigh...



I've been buying from reputable Ali-Ex sellers for years now with great success myself For sure you should get an ES100 to BT with a phone and make phone files sound way better and I think Drop just had them for $75! Now for a balanced DAP Drop also has my # 1 in the Bit Opus # 1 right now as well If I was a chick I'd be a Temptress


----------



## lgcubana

Slater said:


> Get an ES100
> 
> Low output impedance, Dual AK4375a, USB DAC, Qualcomm CSR8675 Bluetooth 5.0 receiver, balanced output, app with loads of hardware control, custom EQ profiles, aptX, aptX-HD, AAC, LDAC...


Still on sale for $85, on Amazon


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> Still on sale for $85, on Amazon



And worth every penny!


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Get an ES100
> 
> Low output impedance, Dual AK4375a, USB DAC, Qualcomm CSR8675 Bluetooth 5.0 receiver, balanced output, app with loads of hardware control, custom EQ profiles, aptX, aptX-HD, AAC, LDAC...


Yeah, I think you might be right. I've been pondering this thing for months now. Maybe it's time I finally got myself one. Thanks, @Slater !


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> And worth every penny!


It's in my Amazon cart now...$129 Cdn. Will most likely buy next week.


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> Ah, Monks of audio. Those guys that make the killer $5 ear buds Yeah, you know a lot of people just stopped hanging here because of those who open the trap before making sure the bait is good Then you have those that can't heed graphs and reviews then it becomes a tuning issue! My fave is when all else fails we can start down the Tonality/Timber trail ala Peter cottontail



 I love how one of the narrative was that "KZ JUST CRAM A BUNCH OF BA IN A SHELL AND PRAY" when most stuff are tuned a certain way. Timbre/tonality, that's more to the capability of the transducers used, I'm actually more excited about ZSX because I want to see how the new mid-high drivers are (the DWEK BA model).



courierdriver said:


> Great...same day I get paid. If I'm smart, I'd buy an dap with a balanced output. But I'm not, so I'll probably get more iems. Sigh...



Well, if you're not willing to get a DAP, there's the new E1DA ES9038S and PowerDacV2 USB-C DAC, really good measurements in review. Some sound engineering went into them.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424/


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> maybe, instead of listening to random impressions, you stick with trusted reviewers like b9scrambler, crabbos, antdroid, berkhan, crinacle, etc. Or better yet, get your baseline and compare with which reviewer matches your listening, then wait for their review.
> 
> its amazing how people just listen to random people saying "these thing are great! its better than my TOTL IEMs!", and then suddenly surprised that turns out to be not the case.


I'm tired of people who say the EDR1 is more pleasing to listen to for them then the ZS7, etc. My Benjie S5 earbuds I got for free sound better than that "crap" iem.


----------



## Podster

Zerohour88 said:


> I love how one of the narrative was that "KZ JUST CRAM A BUNCH OF BA IN A SHELL AND PRAY" when most stuff are tuned a certain way. Timbre/tonality, that's more to the capability of the transducers used, I'm actually more excited about ZSX because I want to see how the new mid-high drivers are (the DWEK BA model).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That’s another alternative for sure and my attitude is when KZ builds a new multi driver iem and uses new types of drivers its worth trying for me if it’s less than $50.


----------



## voicemaster

Lol u guys complaining about buying KZ iems. Go back 5-8 years ago, you will be lucky to find iem that sound like what KZ offering right now with the same price. Before, you either have to go custom/universal custom to get to multi drivers iem and most under $200 was single driver or 2 drivers at most. If you are regretting getting all those KZs then my suggestion is to save that freaking money and just get the TOTL like campfire audio, 1964 audio, jh audio, etc and be done with it. For me, if I buy those $1000+ iem, I am too afraid to use them. Some people may even got ocd and wipe them off every minute or so lol (joke). And sadly, no perfect iem out there even with $1000+ price tag.


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 22, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> maybe, instead of listening to random impressions, you stick with trusted reviewers like b9scrambler, crabbos, antdroid, berkhan, crinacle, etc. Or better yet, get your baseline and compare with which reviewer matches your listening, then wait for their review.
> 
> its amazing how people just listen to random people saying "these thing are great! its better than my TOTL IEMs!", and then suddenly surprised that turns out to be not the case.
> 
> ...



I dont think things gone to s***, KZ still as good as ever, I would even dare to say they are better than ever.

I think the issue here is that, at a point KZ got A LOT of followers and now, some years later, 2 things happened:

- Competition got better
- We have too many, too similar, Pokemons

People are just looking at the Digimons!




voicemaster said:


> Lol u guys complaining about buying KZ iems. Go back 5-8 years ago, you will be lucky to find iem that sound like what KZ offering right now with the same price. Before, you either have to go custom/universal custom to get to multi drivers iem and most under $200 was single driver or 2 drivers at most. If you are regretting getting all those KZs then my suggestion is to save that freaking money and just get the TOTL like campfire audio, 1964 audio, jh audio, etc and be done with it. For me, if I buy those $1000+ iem, I am too afraid to use them. Some people may even got ocd and wipe them off every minute or so lol (joke). And sadly, no perfect iem out there even with $1000+ price tag.



Thats a very good point and maybe the most important point.

KZ basically made this market, other IEMs manufacturers had to compete either with prices or improving quality (or, you know, cramming more drivers).

For my part I love KZ but dont trust their high end yet... But they are king on the sub $50 hybrid market.


----------



## igorneumann

Zerohour88 said:


> maybe, instead of listening to random impressions, you stick with trusted reviewers like b9scrambler, crabbos, antdroid, berkhan, crinacle, etc. Or better yet, get your baseline and compare with which reviewer matches your listening, then wait for their review.
> 
> its amazing how people just listen to random people saying "these thing are great! its better than my TOTL IEMs!", and then suddenly surprised that turns out to be not the case.
> 
> ...



That was mostly a Joke... Normally when I read the 1st impression they are already on their way.


----------



## Zerohour88

igorneumann said:


> I dont think things gone to s***, KZ still as good as ever, I would even dare to say they are better than ever.



when I said things have gone to S***, I didn't mean KZ


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 22, 2019)

Who else thinks the ZSN Purple is better than the CCA C10?

It's musical, emotional feeling, natural sounding and sounds true to what the musician actually wants their music to sound like without having the sound screwed around with like other iems tend to do. It has to be one of the Top 5 KZ's.

How does the ZSN Pro stand up to the Purple?


----------



## igorneumann

Zerohour88 said:


> when I said things have gone to S***, I didn't mean KZ



Oh, you mean here?
Well, I just start actually using in read/write mode recently... so maybe that was my fault.


----------



## SinisterDev (Aug 22, 2019)

Got my new cable for the ZS10 Pro and a nice case I picked up off of Aliexpress that finally came in today! Im happy with it. Much less tangles with using this cable and case. Chi-fi never looked Fi-ner (please excuse my cheesiness) XD


----------



## Zerohour88 (Aug 22, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> Oh, you mean here?
> Well, I just start actually using in read/write mode recently... so maybe that was my fault.



nah, its been like this for quite a while, which is why at this point reviews from trusted members will be more reliable than random impressions.

budget IEMs will have more buyers, with lofty expectations of what budget IEMs can provide. can't be helped. People will be people.



SinisterDev said:


> Got my new cable for the ZS10 Pro and a nice case I picked up off of Aliexpress that finally came in today! Im happy with it. Much less tangles with using this cable and case. Chi-fi never looked Fi-ner (please excuse my cheesiness) XD



is that the KZ upgrade cable? or the qdc one from JCAlly?


----------



## SinisterDev

SinisterDev said:


> Got my new cable for the ZS10 Pro and a nice case I picked up off of Aliexpress that finally came in today! Im happy with it. Much less tangles with using this cable and case. Chi-fi never looked Fi-ner (please excuse my cheesiness) XD


 
Ack. Im having a real tough time posting pics. Some times it just doesn't seem to wanna work for me


----------



## baskingshark

SinisterDev said:


> Got my new cable for the ZS10 Pro and a nice case I picked up off of Aliexpress that finally came in today! Im happy with it. Much less tangles with using this cable and case. Chi-fi never looked Fi-ner (please excuse my cheesiness) XD



Very nice, do u have a link for the cable?


----------



## citral23

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm tired of people who say the EDR1 is more pleasing to listen to for them then the ZS7, etc. My Benjie S5 earbuds I got for free sound better than that "crap" iem.



Those earbuds are really pretty good, surprisingly.



voicemaster said:


> Lol u guys complaining about buying KZ iems. Go back 5-8 years ago, you will be lucky to find iem that sound like what KZ offering right now with the same price. Before, you either have to go custom/universal custom to get to multi drivers iem and most under $200 was single driver or 2 drivers at most. If you are regretting getting all those KZs then my suggestion is to save that freaking money and just get the TOTL like campfire audio, 1964 audio, jh audio, etc and be done with it. For me, if I buy those $1000+ iem, I am too afraid to use them. Some people may even got ocd and wipe them off every minute or so lol (joke). And sadly, no perfect iem out there even with $1000+ price tag.



You seem to be a very reasonable person. I think there are both quite a few people who are too quick to verse into snobism (anything less than 400$ won't do for jogging, oh look a KZ, disgusting) and a lot of uncalled for shilling (ZS10 pro is a Giant Killer!!!! Never heard TOTL iems but I'm 100% sure KZ is better!!! EVeRyoNe BuY BuY BuY!!!!!)

I'm happy to have the ZS10 pro to exercise or walk in the rain. Amazingly comfortable and snug fit, lightweight, and well they look great, can't deny. Decent sound with some EQ in noisy conditions which are really not calling for super audiophile setup anyway, little benefit. No snobism needed. 

I can leave what I consider my better gear at home thanks to them.


----------



## vegetaleb

Hello
I have found a shop in aliexpress selling the KZ ED9 with ''3p'' eartips, is it the name of a special eartip or they just give 3 sets of eartips?


----------



## HungryPanda

3 pairs


----------



## mbwilson111

voicemaster said:


> For me, if I buy those $1000+ iem, I am too afraid to use them.



I too would be afraid to use such expensive iems.  I certainly would not take them out of the house.  Maybe I would lock them in a safe



citral23 said:


> Those earbuds are really pretty good, surprisingly.



I have some surprisingly good Benjie earbuds as well... the ones that came with my Benjie X6.  They have a different shell from the more common MX500 (Monk)shell.



Spoiler: off topic - Benjie player and bud


----------



## zazaboy

Any impressions about the KZ zsx terminator they look Bright from the graph from the description?


----------



## KipNix (Aug 22, 2019)

Funny, I thought this was the *KZ Impressions* thread, where ALL impressions about a certain model are discussed.
When I come here needing to know about a certain KZ IEM, I want to hear all impressions from everybody who has it and decided to share what they have found.
So yeah, I want to hear every "random impression".


----------



## Podster (Aug 22, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Very nice, do u have a link for the cable?



I'm pretty sure that's the $8 TRN cable that also comes in Silver & Black as shown here along with the Yellow Silver combo, makes a red iem rather Iron Mannish





That's too bad on the higher end KZ @igorneumann because IMHO these babies are the real deal





It is also my opinion that these multi all BA iem's can hang with like iem's costing 5 - 6 times as much but I'm also sure others will disagree just because they feel KZ uses inferior BA's to the ever loved Knowles

Come to stink of it and I'm sure this will really fluff some feathers here but for me personally I prefer my BA10 to my BGVP DM6's Oh no he deent But fear not BGVP fans I truly love both my DMG's and DMS


----------



## Zerohour88 (Aug 22, 2019)

KipNix said:


> Funny, I thought this was the *KZ Impressions* thread, where ALL impressions about a certain model are discussed.
> When I come here needing to know about a certain KZ IEM, I want to hear all impressions from everybody who has it and decided to share what they have found.
> So yeah, I want to hear every "random impression".



I'm not advocating "stop all random impressions". I'm merely saying "if you don't like feeling like you burned money on a purchase based on random impressions, then don't do that again".

but I guess even that part needed to be explained. I'll stop since people have reported me for being too "personal".


----------



## Caipirina

igorneumann said:


> Post the video on youtube and send the link.



In one dispute case they told me that they can't access youtube because its blocked in china ... i had to compress my video to under 20MB I think ... 

Why would an IEM not connect???  or is the OP talking about the T1?


----------



## Coldheart29

Slater said:


> I made up a little graphic to show the difference between the different types of KZ cables, since a lot of people are confused on this.
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to use the image when/where/how you want.



Soooo, i was checking this for reference, and one question arose when looking at the cable on my ZST: do C cables work with B earphones? I'm asking that because it looks like the only real difference between the 2 kinds of connectors is that the C connectors have shorter pins, but the recess in the plastic looks about the same. And looking for cables for the ZST is making me a bit paranoic xD

Also, kz connectors are the 0.75mm variant, right?


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 22, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> In one dispute case they told me that they can't access youtube because its blocked in china ... i had to compress my video to under 20MB I think ...
> 
> Why would an IEM not connect???  or is the OP talking about the T1?



Is about the T1... I would get warranty anyways but Admins didnt liked my *illegal* solution.


----------



## igorneumann

Coldheart29 said:


> Soooo, i was checking this for reference, and one question arose when looking at the cable on my ZST: do C cables work with B earphones? I'm asking that because it looks like the only real difference between the 2 kinds of connectors is that the C connectors have shorter pins, but the recess in the plastic looks about the same. And looking for cables for the ZST is making me a bit paranoic xD
> 
> Also, kz connectors are the 0.75mm variant, right?



Yes, .75mm... The pins have the same lenght, its the "condom" around it that is larger, you can easily cut it.

The same way the "b" fits the "c" but didnt get as nice looking.


----------



## Slater (Aug 22, 2019)

Coldheart29 said:


> Soooo, i was checking this for reference, and one question arose when looking at the cable on my ZST: do C cables work with B earphones? I'm asking that because it looks like the only real difference between the 2 kinds of connectors is that the C connectors have shorter pins, but the recess in the plastic looks about the same. And looking for cables for the ZST is making me a bit paranoic xD
> 
> Also, kz connectors are the 0.75mm variant, right?



All KZs use 0.75mm (except for the original matte black ZS3 which used 0.78mm, which was recalled due to defects so very few people have them).

However, the connectors are shaped differently. The paragraph A and B are shaped like a bullet - a rectangle with a curved end on 1 side. The paragraph C is shaped like a rectangle with curved ends on both sides.

Also, the paragraph C sticks out of the top of the earphone. Whereas the A and B are flush with the earphone (or even recessed in some cases).

You can use a B cable on a C plug, but it fits kinda janky. Personally, I wouldn’t do it, because some people are having the plastic around the C plug crack off. I don’t know if it’s just a fragile design, or if the people having cracking problems are using ghetto rigged B cables? It would be interesting to find out...In any event, I would use the correct cable in all cases (A on A, B on B, and C on C). It’s not like the upgrade cables are expensive.


----------



## citral23

Random impression : just received some pairs of cp145 and cp155, to counterbalance what I don't like on some of my iems, after various cheap tips testing and finding good sizes but often sub-par silicon quality.

With cp145 the ZS10 pro improved a lot to me. That's not to say it's suddenly superb, but the bass got more controlled, and the mids are a bit relieved because of it, making the whole sound less "enclosed" or "congested".

I find the bass has still too much impact, which causes fatigue for me but eq can remedy this dialing down 150-200.

KB100 otoh is great with cp155, can listen to Jamaican dub without wondering if the sound system forgot to plug in the subs  Can go back to 145 for classical/jazz (or not), versatile.


----------



## Coldheart29

Slater said:


> All KZs use 0.75mm (except for the original matte black ZS3 which used 0.78mm, which was recalled due to defects so very few people have them).
> 
> However, the connectors are shaped differently. The paragraph A and B are shaped like a bullet - a rectangle with a curved end on 1 side. The paragraph C is shaped like a rectangle with curved ends on both sides.
> 
> ...



I see. so it's not just about the plug sticking out, but also the actual shape.

I guess cables like this one will work without issues even thought there's no recess?maybe just higher risk of bending/snapping the pins if one's not carefull enough?


----------



## Slater

Coldheart29 said:


> I see. so it's not just about the plug sticking out, but also the actual shape.



 Correct



Coldheart29 said:


> I guess cables like this one will work without issues even thought there's no recess?maybe just higher risk of bending/snapping the pins if one's not carefull enough?



Correct


----------



## Coldheart29

Slater said:


> Correct
> 
> 
> 
> Correct


well, double thanks for answering the questions of a paranoid headfier


----------



## Podster (Aug 22, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm not advocating "stop all random impressions". I'm merely saying "if you don't like feeling like you burned money on a purchase based on random impressions, then don't do that again".
> 
> but I guess even that part needed to be explained. I'll stop since people have reported me for being "personal" when literally all I did was gave purchasing advice.



It's all good fellas, we don't need to go there and hopefully we all gather good intel from these post. Sometimes how we approach does not come out like we intend but its all for the good/fun of the hobby

That is correct @Coldheart29 , I have several of Jim's 8 cores and a boatload of 16 cores waiting in my cart for the 28th! Here's that same cable in 8 core with his M6 iem's





Sorry @Slater , if I'd hit the Post Reply button when I'm working on a reply I would not cross post saying the same thing

Even the original Tri-Braids did not recess all the way into the sockets but worked just fine albeit I guess one could break them off easier but I generally don't wear my iem's when playing Ultimate


----------



## citral23

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm not advocating "stop all random impressions". I'm merely saying "if you don't like feeling like you burned money on a purchase based on random impressions, then don't do that again".
> 
> but I guess even that part needed to be explained. I'll stop since people have reported me for being too "personal".



1st comes disbelief "but everyone was shilling it! why does it suck"

2nd comes anger at oneself "why did I listen to all those shills that get the iems free for review and don't want to bad-mouth them or they won't get the next one"

3rd comes acceptance "well it's only a 35$ mistake, and it's not _that_ horrible. Maybe I can use it to bring the trash can out"

And overall it's the beginning of a journey to be more skeptical, and make a big purge in the reviewers we follow, only keeping bookmarks of the ones we agree with 

Buying stuff blind from China is not without caveats, over 100$ I pay the little extra to get it from Amazon personally, can always return if not happy or get free replacements if there's a problem.


----------



## Podster

citral23 said:


> 1st comes disbelief "but everyone was shilling it! why does it suck"
> 
> 2nd comes anger at oneself "why did I listen to all those shills that get the iems free for review and don't want to bad-mouth them or they won't get the next one"
> 
> ...



Now see this is where I get thrown off a little as my description of shill is a person that makes things up or maybe adds fluff but no facts per say on the other hand what most do is hype off others comments and their own lack of hearing many different iem's.

2nd should be left off because there may be some hidden resentment in that take however true it may be and third could be chalked up to a loss or a trash run pair but I would just offer them up to a friend or good discount out here Heck who knows you might even sell them to some shill


----------



## thebigredpolos

Podster said:


> I'm pretty sure that's the $8 TRN cable that also comes in Silver & Black as shown here along with the Yellow Silver combo, makes a red iem rather Iron Mannish
> 
> 
> 
> I think it might be this one, since the $8 TRN cable doesn't offer the C Pin connector that the ZS10 Pro uses.


----------



## Mybutthurts

@Podster

That's some rig in the bottom photo.
You need re inforced pockets to carry that around.


----------



## Zerohour88

Podster said:


> It's all good fellas, we don't need to go there and hopefully we all gather good intel from these post. Sometimes how we approach does not come out like we intend but its all for the good/fun of the hobby






citral23 said:


> 1st comes disbelief "but everyone was shilling it! why does it suck"
> 
> 2nd comes anger at oneself "why did I listen to all those shills that get the iems free for review and don't want to bad-mouth them or they won't get the next one"
> 
> ...




I'll say this, I started blind-buying KZs and then went on to get near kilobucks IEMs based on reviewers I trusted. Rarely been disappointed so far. Using cheap IEMs to gauge whether I can trust reviewers on the more expensive stuff turned out to be quite a good strategy.

Despite getting said IEMs, I've bought KZs due to nostalgia mostly now, and curious on gauging how far they've gotten (not searching for endgame/nirvana/revelations anymore, already know the stuff I want). It also helps that I get them cheaper due to buying direct from taobao.

Good to know someone here understood what I was saying, at least. 

shill because they get free stuff? Well, that's where the above "gauging reliable impressions" comes in.

Hopefully someone reads this and actually learn something, me getting banned won't be for nothing.


----------



## MacAttack7

Having trouble finding a *double-flange eartip* for the KZ ES10 Pro.
Apparently the nozzle is 6mm with an opening of 5mm.
Anybody have a suggestion?

The single-tips it came with seem to fit ok, but with this earphone & with my ED16's they just work their way out if I yawn or go for a walk.
I think my ear just doesn't match up well with the somewhat bulky bodies of the KZ's.

I've been using a double-flange with my ED16's and that seems to have solved the problem, but it came with some other brand of old earphones that I own.


----------



## Podster

Yes, I believe you are correct in that, I think the cable is very close to the same however TRN was not offering the KZ C pin connectors when I got those.

@Mybutthurts , it is rather bulky but not near as heavy as it looks. I think the Walnut could have actually gotten everything in the V2 and F1 into just one of those chassis Still one of the most analog sounding setups I've ever heard and the balanced out is just a plus


----------



## RikudouGoku

Off topic and probably wrong thread, but How do you add a microphone to you Iems when gaming? For example with headphones you can buy a Modmic and it turns it into a headset, is there something similar for IEms? Do not want to use those big Mics that takes in all the sound in the house and I do not have the space for one of those. TIA


----------



## SinisterDev

baskingshark said:


> Very nice, do u have a link for the cable?


Yay! My picture upload finally worked haha.
And yeah, heres the link to the cable on Aliexpress 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/BmQ0E5JE
The C-Pin cable is available under the selections. I picked mine up off Amazon. It was actually around the same price surprisingly. I believe I paid $15 for it with free 2 day shipping. So it was worth it to get it so fast.


----------



## Podster

MacAttack7 said:


> Having trouble finding a *double-flange eartip* for the KZ ES10 Pro.
> Apparently the nozzle is 6mm with an opening of 5mm.
> Anybody have a suggestion?
> 
> ...



So I have at least 100 pair (big discount package bought years ago) of triple flange that a lot of people cut the outer flange off for a bi-flange, if you PM me an address I'll send you 2-3 pair in the mail May be worth a try and heck it's just a stamp to Oregon


----------



## Zerohour88

RikudouGoku said:


> Off topic and probably wrong thread, but How do you add a microphone to you Iems when gaming? For example with headphones you can buy a Modmic and it turns it into a headset, is there something similar for IEms? Do not want to use those big Mics that takes in all the sound in the house and I do not have the space for one of those. TIA



buy a cable with mic and then use a splitter to get 2 separate audio and mic jacks

if you buy a V-moda, you should get one of these included? I had one with my SHP9500, at least


----------



## RikudouGoku

Zerohour88 said:


> buy a cable with mic and then use a splitter to get 2 separate audio and mic jacks
> 
> if you buy a V-moda, you should get one of these included? I had one with my SHP9500, at least


I already Have cables for 50 usd and would rather not do that, is there any standalone mics that work?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EO4A...ag=mourmarketing00-21&creative=9325&camp=1789

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MRMU2HU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

something like those?


----------



## Coldheart29

Podster said:


> It's all good fellas, we don't need to go there and hopefully we all gather good intel from these post. Sometimes how we approach does not come out like we intend but its all for the good/fun of the hobby
> 
> That is correct @Coldheart29 , I have several of Jim's 8 cores and a boatload of 16 cores waiting in my cart for the 28th! Here's that same cable in 8 core with his M6 iem's
> 
> ...


Uuuuh, that looks even better than i expected.
Yup, i'm getting that 16 core as soon as the 26 sale comes (got some more stuff in the cart too).
But still, any recommendation for a good para B cable with an angled jack?(why do all these upgrade cables use straight jacks anyway >.>?)


----------



## Podster

Coldheart29 said:


> Uuuuh, that looks even better than i expected.
> Yup, i'm getting that 16 core as soon as the 26 sale comes (got some more stuff in the cart too).
> But still, any recommendation for a good para B cable with an angled jack?(why do all these upgrade cables use straight jacks anyway >.>?)



Not really as a lot of the after market cable builders have gotten away from right angle connectors and are all pretty much straight now however I do remember when they started or at least several of them gave you choice on order for straight or angled (always makes me laugh when they say right angle cause all one had to do is twist it to the other side for a left angle.....just kidding wit ya as out of the player it is a right angle) Should not stop you from searching


----------



## Zerohour88

RikudouGoku said:


> I already Have cables for 50 usd and would rather not do that, is there any standalone mics that work?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EO4A...ag=mourmarketing00-21&creative=9325&camp=1789
> 
> ...



well, if you buy any clip-on mic, sure. I used one before I got my V-moda boompro (placed it on the desk near the keyboard).

might be a bit messy, but you can braid/tape the mic cable with your existing cable and then clip the mic to your shirt (I don't wear one while on the PC, hence putting it on the desk)


----------



## citral23 (Aug 22, 2019)

I do that at work, IEMs with good no-mic cable, in USB-C hidizs sonata HD on "pure sound" firmware (no mic)

Standalone clip-on mic direct in the audio jack of the laptop

Albeit I really don't like to talk with noise isolation of IEMs, feels really weird. So I want to test earbuds in jack and switch to them for confcall, and only use IEMs for music.


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> So I want to test earbuds in jack and switch to them for confcall, and only use IEMs for music.



You just might be surprised how good earbuds can be for music.  I have some that remind me of a good open backed headphone.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Zerohour88 said:


> well, if you buy any clip-on mic, sure. I used one before I got my V-moda boompro (placed it on the desk near the keyboard).
> 
> might be a bit messy, but you can braid/tape the mic cable with your existing cable and then clip the mic to your shirt (I don't wear one while on the PC, hence putting it on the desk)


yeah but i skip the tape.

BOYA by M1 is the one i am gonna buy.


----------



## smodtactical

Will the 500 core size complyfoam tips fit the KZ ZS 10 pro? The chart says it will fit the non-pro.

https://www.complyfoam.com/content/ALL MODELS COMPATIBILITY CHART.pdf


----------



## Slater

Enjoying the ZS7 today:


----------



## MacAttack7 (Aug 22, 2019)

smodtactical said:


> Will the 500 core size complyfoam tips fit the KZ ZS 10 pro? The chart says it will fit the non-pro.
> 
> https://www.complyfoam.com/content/ALL MODELS COMPATIBILITY CHART.pdf


On the comply chart it has KZ ZSR under 600 core size.
It's nozzle size & opening is the same as the ZS 10 Pro.
6mm nozzle, 5mm opening.

I just put a Mee Audio double-flange on that's 3.5mm core, and it fit the ZS10 Pro no problem.
I wonder if it even matters with stretchy silicone.


----------



## chinmie

citral23 said:


> I do that at work, IEMs with good no-mic cable, in USB-C hidizs sonata HD on "pure sound" firmware (no mic)
> 
> Standalone clip-on mic direct in the audio jack of the laptop
> 
> Albeit I really don't like to talk with noise isolation of IEMs, feels really weird. So I want to test earbuds in jack and switch to them for confcall, and only use IEMs for music.



please do visit the earbuds thread. earbuds are a whole different class of sound from IEMs. not superior, but excitingly different feel.


----------



## courierdriver

Zerohour88 said:


> Well, if you're not willing to get a DAP, there's the new E1DA ES9038S and PowerDacV2 USB-C DAC, really good measurements in review. Some sound engineering went into them.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424/


  I was leaning towards the 9038S, but from all I have read, it sucks the battery from the phone like crazy. So I would need to hook up a battery charging bank up to my phone, which is taking away from my goal to reduce the complexity of a stack, as well as the bulk and weight. The constant drain I already have on my phone's battery (due to constant recharging because of music apps like Hiby Music Player, Spotify and Amazon Music being used) is making my battery lose its charges faster every day. The E1DA won't really solve my issues. I'm thinking I might just get a less expensive dap for the time being, that has balanced output and an SD card slot...something like a Zishan, F-Audio or an Xduoo X20. I've seen alot of headfiers and people who have reviewed iems and earbuds, who have posted pics of their other gear, and a vast number of them show some really cool budget daps that are in the $150-300 range. No; they aren't touch screens, have access to the internet, support bluetooth or do anything fancy; but they do have balanced outs with comparable power to my Q1MK2 dac/amp, use good dac chips (sometimes doubles for true balanced output), accept SD cards up to at least 128MB, and sound great!


----------



## Veyska

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who else thinks the ZSN Purple is better than the CCA C10?
> 
> It's musical, emotional feeling, natural sounding and sounds true to what the musician actually wants their music to sound like without having the sound screwed around with like other iems tend to do. It has to be one of the Top 5 KZ's.
> 
> How does the ZSN Pro stand up to the Purple?


I prefer my (turquoise, not that it matters, and I got it the same cable as the purple ZSN because it was pretty and also maybe a minor upgrade) C10 to my purple ZSN, but I'll admit I've not tried tip rolling on the ZSN at all and only really the came-with-Rosewill SpinFits on the C10 largely for fit reasons.  The ZSN's treble was just *slightly* not-quite-satisfying (though not so far as to be unsatisfying, mind; too lazy to dredge the relevant post up but I believe I described it as kinda' like a low-res JPG someone had scaled up and then gone just a *tad* overboard on the sharpen focus tool to compensate).  The ZSN's still pretty damned awesome though, sufficiently so that I keep being tempted to get a ZSN Pro because why not.  <-<

(Hi, I'm overly fond of parenthetical comments tonight apparently.)


----------



## Zerohour88

courierdriver said:


> I was leaning towards the 9038S, but from all I have read, it sucks the battery from the phone like crazy. So I would need to hook up a battery charging bank up to my phone, which is taking away from my goal to reduce the complexity of a stack, as well as the bulk and weight. The constant drain I already have on my phone's battery (due to constant recharging because of music apps like Hiby Music Player, Spotify and Amazon Music being used) is making my battery lose its charges faster every day. The E1DA won't really solve my issues. I'm thinking I might just get a less expensive dap for the time being, that has balanced output and an SD card slot...something like a Zishan, F-Audio or an Xduoo X20. I've seen alot of headfiers and people who have reviewed iems and earbuds, who have posted pics of their other gear, and a vast number of them show some really cool budget daps that are in the $150-300 range. No; they aren't touch screens, have access to the internet, support bluetooth or do anything fancy; but they do have balanced outs with comparable power to my Q1MK2 dac/amp, use good dac chips (sometimes doubles for true balanced output), accept SD cards up to at least 128MB, and sound great!



I find it hard to get chi-fi DAPs now after testing some with the Andro and getting crazy hiss (I don't mind if the impedance is a bit high, but hiss is a killer). Coincidentally, the two DACs I loved were the Q1Mk2 (really slick design and smaller than I thought) and NX4 DSD (the one I'd get over the Fiio). 

Topping started the trend of good value, excellent-measuring, great engineering designs among the chinese source makers, I hope they decide to make a DAP soon.

usd$300 balanced out DAP, Cowon Plenue D2?


----------



## vegetaleb

How good are the BTE?
I don't have BT iem because I don't mind having cables and sound quality is still the preferred feature I want.
So are the BTE finally a good pair of iem in the same level as ZS4 fir example or not?


----------



## Assimilator702

Veyska said:


> I prefer my (turquoise, not that it matters, and I got it the same cable as the purple ZSN because it was pretty and also maybe a minor upgrade) C10 to my purple ZSN, but I'll admit I've not tried tip rolling on the ZSN at all and only really the came-with-Rosewill SpinFits on the C10 largely for fit reasons.  The ZSN's treble was just *slightly* not-quite-satisfying (though not so far as to be unsatisfying, mind; too lazy to dredge the relevant post up but I believe I described it as kinda' like a low-res JPG someone had scaled up and then gone just a *tad* overboard on the sharpen focus tool to compensate).  The ZSN's still pretty damned awesome though, sufficiently so that I keep being tempted to get a ZSN Pro because why not.  <-<
> 
> (Hi, I'm overly fond of parenthetical comments tonight apparently.)


I have ZSN in black and Purple. There's not a bit of difference in sound. If cables can make a difference the light copper colored cable is no different than the regular brown cable. With that said the ZSN sounds a touch better than the ZSN PRO. Its more of a side grade but while the mids sound a touch better on the ZSN with vocals the ZSN PRO has a bit more bite in the mid treble and the bass is more monsterous. Don't knock yourself out getting a ZSN PRO unless you want a bass monster and maybe try something else. The **** Ash is a bit better than both. Its basically a retuned TRN IM2 and it's a considerable upgrade for $23 on AE.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Assimilator702 said:


> I have ZSN in black and Purple. There's not a bit of difference in sound. If cables can make a difference the light copper colored cable is no different than the regular brown cable.


I have both colored ZSN's and the Purple sound better. Maybe cause it's broken in more? The Black's vocals sound slurred.


----------



## vegetaleb

About the ED16, are they physically like zsr or zs3/4?
Zsr are a total disaster as fit in my ears, zs3 and 4 are perfect


----------



## igorneumann

vegetaleb said:


> About the ED16, are they physically like zsr or zs3/4?
> Zsr are a total disaster as fit in my ears, zs3 and 4 are perfect



Not similar to none of those, ED16 has a unique shell.
It sounds weird for my ears.


----------



## vegetaleb (Aug 23, 2019)

I want to use my 2$ coupon on a good pair of iem under 20$. Bought the Marley little bird lately but sound was kinda muffled, my kz zs3 and 4 are in bad shape so I am searching for a new model.
Not a bass head, I am into wide soundstage and crystal details


----------



## nxnje

vegetaleb said:


> I want to use my 2$ coupon on a good pair of iem under 20$. Bought the Marley little bird lately but sound was kinda muffled, my kz zs3 and 4 are in bad shape so I am searching for a new model.
> Not a bass head, I am into wide soundstage and crystal details



You could try: **** ****, ZSN Pro, QT5, ED9 (old but good) or you can push some euros for the old good ZS6 from KZ.
There are many choices around, and the 20~ price bracket is actually full of decent stuff.


----------



## scottySK

Stretch the budget for the Tin T2, I'm super impressed with the clarity and detail.

ZS6 is quite good for soundstage but are too fatiguing for my ears, but ymmv

Sticking to the $20 budget however I think the ZSN would be a great choice


vegetaleb said:


> I want to use my 2$ coupon on a good pair of iem under 20$. Bought the Marley little bird lately but sound was kinda muffled, my kz zs3 and 4 are in bad shape so I am searching for a new model.
> Not a bass head, I am into wide soundstage and crystal details


----------



## igorneumann

vegetaleb said:


> I want to use my 2$ coupon on a good pair of iem under 20$. Bought the Marley little bird lately but sound was kinda muffled, my kz zs3 and 4 are in bad shape so I am searching for a new model.
> Not a bass head, I am into wide soundstage and crystal details



"Not a bass head, I am into wide soundstage and crystal details"

Dude, you got all the wrong IEMs, then... ZS3/4 are bassy and not that centered in "crystal details".

My suggestions are similar to the previous one (****, ED9, ZSN) but I would add the TRN IM2.
I like the TRN IM1 best but that one is bassy(er), more similar to the ZS4 than the description of what you want.


----------



## Nimweth

vegetaleb said:


> I want to use my 2$ coupon on a good pair of iem under 20$. Bought the Marley little bird lately but sound was kinda muffled, my kz zs3 and 4 are in bad shape so I am searching for a new model.
> Not a bass head, I am into wide soundstage and crystal details


ED9 with the brass nozzles and wide bore tips. Sorted!


----------



## SinisterDev

baskingshark said:


> Very nice, do u have a link for the cable?



Sorry for the delay. Could have sworn I made a post sharing the link, but l guess it went *poof*. 
It is the KZ 8 core upgrade cable. I got mine off Amazon because the price was surprisingly similar to the price for the same cable in the KZ store on Ali. 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/sSBnJVJa just gotta make sure to order the C pin version. Im really liking them so far. Tempted to get another pair in B type for my CCA C10's! Pretty nice budget cable. I believe @Slater suggested I try it.


----------



## acarvoeiro (Aug 23, 2019)

To listen with ZS7


----------



## mbwilson111

vegetaleb said:


> About the ED16, are they physically like zsr or zs3/4?
> Zsr are a total disaster as fit in my ears, zs3 and 4 are perfect



The ED16 is smaller than a ZSR.  It fits very comfortably in my ear... with a different cable.  The rubbery cable that came with it just pulls it at an odd angle for me.  I also had to change tips in order to get a proper deep enough seal.  Now they sound great to  my ears and with my music... good enough that I bought a spare in another color.... which I ended up giving to my husband.  I could tell he would probably buy another if I didn't...lol.  But there were only two colors!

The most recent KZ that I have bought is the ZSN.  I have not been tempted by any of the newer ones... the pro this and pro that...


----------



## billbishere

So I changed from the JVC Spiral Dots to the Final Audio Tips today on my ZS10 Pros.  I must say it really sounds like to me that it cleaned up the sound, not as harsh or grain.  It tamed the mid bass hump a bit too.  I really like the sound and am amazing by how much the sound changed.  The bore sizes are probably as different as you could probably get in size.

Just thought I would share my experience


----------



## jeromeaparis

vegetaleb said:


> About the ED16, are they physically like zsr or zs3/4?
> Zsr are a total disaster as fit in my ears, zs3 and 4 are perfect



ED16 is not only much smaller than ZSR and smaller than ZS3-4,
it also much better sounds.
More detailed than ZS6,ED16 is also named ZS7
It s not bright as the ZSn, more natural sounding.
More sub than bass.
1DD+ 2BA


----------



## BadReligionPunk

vegetaleb said:


> I want to use my 2$ coupon on a good pair of iem under 20$. Bought the Marley little bird lately but sound was kinda muffled, my kz zs3 and 4 are in bad shape so I am searching for a new model.
> Not a bass head, I am into wide soundstage and crystal details



Don't sleep on the Nicehck Bro. They are $11 right now and will be down to $9 with the mobile app on Aliexpress. As for KZ the ED9 is also a good play. Also check reviews for Uiisii CM5. That thing is still legendary status imo. I don't know if its still available, but its worth checking out.


----------



## gorman

I've bought a pair of KZ AS10 and plan on pairing them with TRN BT20S. Any suggestions for most comfortable eartips?
Also, nozzle seems huge, which Comply fit these?


----------



## loomisjohnson

BadReligionPunk said:


> Don't sleep on the Nicehck Bro. They are $11 right now and will be down to $9 with the mobile app on Aliexpress. As for KZ the ED9 is also a good play. Also check reviews for Uiisii CM5. That thing is still legendary status imo. I don't know if its still available, but its worth checking out.


i was going to recommend the bro as well--not bassy, but otherwise ridiculously refined and well made for $11--the cable is worth it alone


----------



## MacAttack7

vegetaleb said:


> About the ED16, are they physically like zsr or zs3/4?
> Zsr are a total disaster as fit in my ears, zs3 and 4 are perfect


I think the ED16 are about the same size as my ZS10 Pro's, but a different shape.
I couldn't get them to keep a tight fit in my ear, but I recently put on dual-flange tips from Mee Audio & they seem great now.
They are also much lighter than the ZS10 Pro's. I've never paid attention to that before, but now I notice that the KZ10 Pros aren't great if you're moving around a lot because the weight seems to gradually loosen the fit as they slightly slip out.

The ED16 Sound perfectly good to me, but I don't really hear a lot of the things people mention here.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 23, 2019)

Cable porn :

In order of preference, I rate the **** 6 core highest. Extremely supple, so much that it doesn't need ear hooks, which looks and feels nicer imo. Nice color, too.







KZ Upgrade cable, perfect for the price, not super far from KPE stock cable. Jack could lose some weight and belly.






TRN 16 cores cable. Not too bad but on the heavy side and I'm not a fan of the brown. I have a balanced silver too, and it looks just like... silverish paint. Doesn't ever get completely straight, braiding could be better. Still good value.


----------



## Slater

BadReligionPunk said:


> Also check reviews for Uiisii CM5. That thing is still legendary status imo. I don't know if its still available, but its worth checking out.



True dat!


----------



## HungryPanda

My sound tonight


----------



## KimChee (Aug 23, 2019)

I know not everyone likes these, but I received them today and I really like them.  Sound quality is better than I expected.  It’s got a nice V shaped signature, pairing was easy with my iPhone.  They are also very comfortable. 

It’s connected nicely to my AP80, IPhone, and Ak380 Copper.


----------



## Slater (Aug 23, 2019)

KimChee said:


> I know not everyone likes these, but I received them today and I really like them.  Sound quality is better than I expected.  It’s got a nice V shaped signature, pairing was easy with my iPhone.  They are also very comfortable.
> 
> It’s connected nicely to my AP80, IPhone, and Ak380 Copper.



How’s the volume steps? That seems to be the biggest complaint (at least on the iPhone).


----------



## KimChee

I think the volume steps are a bit off in my opinion, anyways you could just adjust it on your phone if you want.  Advancing the track my touching the iems or changing the volume can be a little fiddly at times but very tolerable to me so far....



Slater said:


> How’s the volume steps? That seems to be the biggest complaint (at least on the iPhone).


----------



## Slater

KimChee said:


> I think the volume steps are a bit off in my opinion, anyways you could just adjust it on your phone if you want.  Advancing the track my touching the iems or changing the volume can be a little fiddly at times but very tolerable to me so far....



So you don’t have a problem where 1 volume step (from the phone) is too quiet, but the next volume step (from the phone) blasts your eardrums?


----------



## KimChee (Aug 23, 2019)

The volume steps up or down 2 bars on the iPhone volume control. So far I’ve been listening to max volume for jamming out for a workout, or one or two steps down and it has been ok for me. If I don’t like it I just manually changed volume on the phone...



Slater said:


> So you don’t have a problem where 1 volume step (from the phone) is too quiet, but the next volume step (from the phone) blasts your eardrums?


----------



## Makahl

Been a week with ES100 and I'm really enjoying it but I'd like a smaller cable like the Sony MH755 for sports activities, is there any option for 2pins 0.75mm that would fit in ZS10 Pro? I've been searching on Aliexpress but it's hard to find something similar.


----------



## rodel808

Makahl said:


> Been a week with ES100 and I'm really enjoying it but I'd like a smaller cable like the Sony MH755 for sports activities, is there any option for 2pins 0.75mm that would fit in ZS10 Pro? I've been searching on Aliexpress but it's hard to find something similar.



These combo will cover just about all iem connectors.

https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/102911.html

https://www.linsoul.com/product-page/linsoul-earphone-connector-adapter-mmcx2pin-qdc-exk-a2dc


----------



## Makahl

rodel808 said:


> These combo will cover just about all iem connectors.
> 
> https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/102911.html
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/product-page/linsoul-earphone-connector-adapter-mmcx2pin-qdc-exk-a2dc



Thanks, friend! but ouch $60 for an adapter seems too much for a ZS10 Pro. 

If I don't find anything cheaper and ready-made, probably I'll try buying a DIY 2pins socket and solder the MH755 cable instead.


----------



## Veyska

Assimilator702 said:


> I have ZSN in black and Purple. There's not a bit of difference in sound. If cables can make a difference the light copper colored cable is no different than the regular brown cable. With that said the ZSN sounds a touch better than the ZSN PRO. Its more of a side grade but while the mids sound a touch better on the ZSN with vocals the ZSN PRO has a bit more bite in the mid treble and the bass is more monsterous. Don't knock yourself out getting a ZSN PRO unless you want a bass monster and maybe try something else. The **** Ash is a bit better than both. Its basically a retuned TRN IM2 and it's a considerable upgrade for $23 on AE.


  I've only the purple ZSN (picked because purple is a neat color) which I got a fair while before the whole debate over which ZSN cable was better, and never tried any other cables on it.  Got the matching cable for my CCA C10 because it was cheap and I liked how it looked better, I'm frequently a sucker for the raw/exposed innards/metals look and I also really like copper as a color.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Veyska said:


> I've only the purple ZSN (picked because purple is a neat color) which I got a fair while before the whole debate over which ZSN cable was better, and never tried any other cables on it.  Got the matching cable for my CCA C10 because it was cheap and I liked how it looked better, I'm frequently a sucker for the raw/exposed innards/metals look and I also really like copper as a color.



My measurements of both (no Mic)cables show that the copper cable is superior to the the bronze/brown cable. The copper cable that came with the purple is a decent cable. The cable that came with the other ZSN's is just below avg cable. 

KZ ZSN Copper R- 0.308 R+ 0.307 L- 0.307 L+ 0.302
KZ ZSN Bronze R- 1.102 R+ 0.995 L- 0.790 L+ 0.960


----------



## courierdriver

Zerohour88 said:


> I find it hard to get chi-fi DAPs now after testing some with the Andro and getting crazy hiss (I don't mind if the impedance is a bit high, but hiss is a killer). Coincidentally, the two DACs I loved were the Q1Mk2 (really slick design and smaller than I thought) and NX4 DSD (the one I'd get over the Fiio).
> 
> Topping started the trend of good value, excellent-measuring, great engineering designs among the chinese source makers, I hope they decide to make a DAP soon.
> 
> usd$300 balanced out DAP, Cowon Plenue D2?


Yup, the Q1MK2 is hard to beat for its SQ. And, it's got a balanced output, something the NX4 doesn't have. I'm leaning towards the Xduoo X20 though. The Plenue might be a bit too warm for me, and it has issues with the OS. I may also try a F-Audio dap with the dual balanced AK4497 dac. It has the ability to mod the OP amps also. I might throw some Burson V6 OP amps into it, just for kicks and a bit of extra detail. Anyhow, anything over $300 CDN is out of the equation.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> You just might be surprised how good earbuds can be for music.  I have some that remind me of a good open backed headphone.


I just got the RY4S PLUS 32 OHM MMCX. Sound potential seems awesome, if only I could keep them from falling out of my ears. Any suggestions? I'm currently using the supplied foam covers.


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> I just got the RY4S PLUS 32 OHM MMCX. Sound potential seems awesome, if only I could keep them from falling out of my ears. Any suggestions? I'm currently using the supplied foam covers.


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


>


Haha! Yeah, that's kinda an extreme solution.


----------



## HungryPanda (Aug 24, 2019)

Use one of the shirt clips that come with iems to take weight off the earbuds. Or silicone fins


----------



## Tonymac136

Got my ED9s today. They came in the post with a pair of Semkarch CNT-1 which sound fantastic. But it's the ED9s that are in my ears right now. They're not perfect by any stretch, I'd like a filter that was halfway between the two in sound quality and the microphonics on the non replaceable cable are really quite bad.
However, they are crazy comfortable, to the point of almost not being able to feel them, and the sound, while unexceptional, is also absolutely acceptable in every respect. I spend so much time listening to the headphones and so little to the actual music it's nice to have something so totally unobtrusive going on in my ears. I'm using my phone as a source and a pair of earphones that cost as much as a CD and I couldn't even begin to care. Impressive.


----------



## eclein

I’m not dead folks if anyone was wondering....lol...ear issues first time in 61 years have made listening to iems problematic. Its getting better and I’ve been reading headfi everyday but really can’t comment on sound from anything lately.....lol.

Anyway has anybody gotten the new KZ NSX (I think), and heard them? The new TRN V90 (?) is also intriguing.....Slater did you order the “Terminator” from KZ, the NSX?
Post 999 wow..........


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> I just got the RY4S PLUS 32 OHM MMCX. Sound potential seems awesome, if only I could keep them from falling out of my ears. Any suggestions? I'm currently using the supplied foam covers.



If they are falling out because they are too loose, put a donut foam on top of the regular foam.   If they are falling out because they are not fitted into your ear securely, make sure you have tucked as much as you can of the shell under the tragus and then pull down a bit on the stem to secure it angled in the intertragic notch area I make sure that the stem is not just sticking out of my ear but resting against my face. There are other shell types to consider if you keep having a problem.

It will be more difficult if you do not have much of a tragus or antitragus as those hold it in place.

To keep a bit on topic for the KZ thread,  the shape and size of the concha will determine how well certain models of KZs will fit.


----------



## vegetaleb

Thanks for the recommendations.
About the **** they look fantastic but they are the heaviest of all mentioned no? Will they have enough volume on a S10+?
The ED16 are either loved or hated here I see.
The ED9 sound quality is average from what I am reading here, I wonder if they will be better than my stock S10+ iems and Marley little bird


----------



## Tonymac136

vegetaleb said:


> The ED9 sound quality is average from what I am reading here, I wonder if they will be better than my stock S10+ iems and Marley little bird



The ED9 is average compared to headphones 3 or more times the price. For less than £10 they are brilliant. I've not heard stock S10 IEMs but I would be very surprised if they even come close to the ED9. To me the ED9 is better than budget multi driver BA/DD units like the ZS10 and V80. Much better.


----------



## baskingshark

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks for the recommendations.
> About the **** they look fantastic but they are the heaviest of all mentioned no? Will they have enough volume on a S10+?
> The ED16 are either loved or hated here I see.
> The ED9 sound quality is average from what I am reading here, I wonder if they will be better than my stock S10+ iems and Marley little bird



On paper, the **** is drivable from a phone but IMHO it requires an amp to make the treble truly shine and also to improve soundstage. The piezo drivers that handle the treble frequency require quite a lot of juice.
Without an amp, I estimate that it requires about 20% more volume on my smartphone compared to other IEMs.


----------



## vegetaleb

baskingshark said:


> On paper, the **** is drivable from a phone but IMHO it requires an amp to make the treble truly shine and also to improve soundstage. The piezo drivers that handle the treble frequency require quite a lot of juice.
> Without an amp, I estimate that it requires about 20% more volume on my smartphone compared to other IEMs.



What about the weight?
Are they annoyingly heavy when walking long walks?


----------



## baskingshark

vegetaleb said:


> What about the weight?
> Are they annoyingly heavy when walking long walks?



They are a bit heavy compared to some plastic shell IEMs, but not the heaviest IMO. I got used to it in a few minutes.
The issue is that they are supposed to be worn straight down, so the weight of the IEMs may yank them out of your ears if u don't have a good ear tip fit and walk about.
I know some headfiers wear them over ear and rotate them to fix this issue.
The stock tips ain't too good IMO, but I got a perfect fit with them using KZ starlines, YMMV.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Aug 24, 2019)

vegetaleb said:


> ****


not so good headphones.
By the sound: a very strong failure in the middle, the vocals are very distant so that the male is practically inaudible. And also: the vocalists sing very strangely, the impression is that they got their teeth knocked out - everyone hiss 

I do not advise 

they don’t need strong gain - resistance is only *12* ohms with cable(tested by multimeter)


----------



## igorneumann

courierdriver said:


> I just got the RY4S PLUS 32 OHM MMCX. Sound potential seems awesome, if only I could keep them from falling out of my ears. Any suggestions? I'm currently using the supplied foam covers.



I had this problem with the KZ ED9 and 15, one solved with double flange Spinfit, the other with this...
€ 0,86  30%de DESCUENTO | KEITHNICO 2 pares de auriculares negros Universal de silicona con Clip de oreja, ganchos para auriculares, colgador de oreja, auriculares
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/qnMbhhVO


----------



## mbwilson111 (Aug 24, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> I had this problem with the KZ ED9 and 15, one solved with double flange Spinfit, the other with this...
> € 0,86  30%de DESCUENTO | KEITHNICO 2 pares de auriculares negros Universal de silicona con Clip de oreja, ganchos para auriculares, colgador de oreja, auriculares
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/qnMbhhVO



The RY4s is an earbud not an iem.


----------



## nraymond

Just got the ZS7, and they are better than I was expecting (I like them better than the CCA C10). My usual favorite tips have interesting impacts on the sonics... Tenmak Whirlwinds seem like a good match. What's everyone else using?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Which kz has the better bass?
Anyone tried the bluetooth module aptx hd? Is good?


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> Got my ED9s today... They're not perfect by any stretch, I'd like a filter that was halfway between the two in sound quality...



Pro tip: For a sound between the 2 filters, take the foam out of the shiny gold nozzles using tweezers or even a toothpick, and install them into the full brass nozzles.


----------



## Slater

eclein said:


> Anyway has anybody gotten the new KZ NSX (I think), and heard them? The new TRN V90 (?) is also intriguing.....Slater did you order the “Terminator” from KZ, the NSX?



No, honestly I’ve been so happy with the ZS7 and ZS10 Pro, that I really haven’t longed for any new KZs. I can’t really imagine that adding 1 more BA driver to the ZSX will make them magically blow away the ZS7 or ZS10 Pro (regardless of what the new model name would imply). I assumed it was just going to be another side grade. But I could be wrong; I’ll wait and see once some trusted impressions roll in.

As far as the TRN, the V90 on midnight blue looks sexy as heck. It’s tempted me, but TRNs IEMs are always very iffy. So just like the ZSX, I’ve resisted ordering a V90 until some trusted impressions roll in as well.

P.S. - Glad to hear you’re getting better. We’ve missed you around here. I’m recovering from an injury myself, and spent the last few weeks bed ridden and in pain myself. It sucks when your body doesn’t cooperate lol


----------



## Slater

baskingshark said:


> The issue is that they are supposed to be worn straight down, so the weight of the IEMs may yank them out of your ears if u don't have a good ear tip fit and walk about.
> I know some headfiers wear them over ear and rotate them to fix this issue.
> The stock tips ain't too good IMO, but I got a perfect fit with them using KZ starlines, YMMV.



Yup, the goofy red stock tips suck.

I use Starlines or Auvios on mine.

And I’m one of those folks that wear them up and sides reversed (although since they’re mmcx, you can swap the cable so the actual stereo channels are correct).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 24, 2019)

Slater said:


> Yup, the goofy red stock tips suck.
> 
> And I’m one of those folks that wear them up and sides reversed (although since they’re mmcx, you can swap the cable so the actual stereo channels are correct).


Any brand that sells an iem with those weird red eartips and the cheap uninspiring **** packaging doesnt really care about how people think of their brand.

It's not 1990 anymore. The design of the packaging for the **** **** is unacceptable. Havent they heard of hiring someone on Fiverr?


----------



## Slater (Aug 24, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Any brand that sells an iem with those weird red eartips and the cheap uninspiring XX packaging doesnt really care about how people think of their brand.
> 
> It's not 1990 anymore, the design of the packaging for the XX us unacceptable. Havent they heard of hiring someone on Fiverr?



Well, generally speaking, I’d rather buy a good sounding earphone in a crap generic box, than a crap sounding earphone in a beautiful wooden box with gilded inlay. I can’t listen to the packaging.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 24, 2019)

Slater said:


> Well, generally speaking, I’d rather buy a good sounding earphone in a crap generic box, than a crap sounding earphone in a beautiful wooden box with gilded inlay. I can’t listen to the packaging.


Ditto. I can't listen to the **** **** because it doesn't work well with any eartips or methods in my ears. I probably should have known that if I saw the packaging first.

PS: I have a **** **** for sale.


----------



## Veyska

vegetaleb said:


> What about the weight?
> Are they annoyingly heavy when walking long walks?





Slater said:


> Yup, the goofy red stock tips suck.
> 
> I use Starlines or Auvios on mine.
> 
> And I’m one of those folks that wear them up and sides reversed (although since they’re mmcx, you can swap the cable so the actual stereo channels are correct).


I also wear my 3-in-1 driver sampler pack IEMs cable-up.  No problems with falling out or weight once you find the right tip, though I will comment that since they're *intended* for cable-down cables with pre-formed ear guides can be a bit awkward - the part that's supposed to loop up in front of the topmost part of where your ear meets your head instead loops up a tad behind it before hooking over to behind the ear, thanks to the angle of the cable port.  Not impossible to work with, but cables without any guides work better IMO.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> If they are falling out because they are too loose, put a donut foam on top of the regular foam.   If they are falling out because they are not fitted into your ear securely, make sure you have tucked as much as you can of the shell under the tragus and then pull down a bit on the stem to secure it angled in the intertragic notch area I make sure that the stem is not just sticking out of my ear but resting against my face. There are other shell types to consider if you keep having a problem.
> 
> It will be more difficult if you do not have much of a tragus or antitragus as those hold it in place.
> 
> To keep a bit on topic for the KZ thread,  the shape and size of the concha will determine how well certain models of KZs will fit.


Thanks for the great info. I will order some donut foams on Aliexpress or maybe Amazon, if I can find a good deal on them there. I did try to wear them with the cable over ear (fortunately, my new balanced mmcx cable that I purchased specifically for this earbud, does not have a preformed memory guide) and it seemed a bit better, but the earbuds still seem to work themselves loose and out. Only way I can get the RY4S to sound great, is by keeping finger pressure on them, and pressing them firmly into my ears.


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> Use one of the shirt clips that come with iems to take weight off the earbuds. Or silicone fins


I might just give fins a try, but they look complicated to seat. Heck, I'm just now beginning to get proficient at inserting my iems into my ears. LOL! The action of looping a cable over my ears and inserting at the same time, was complicated to me at first. Back in February of this year, when I first got my KPE, I screwed it up everytime; and my ISN C16 cable doesn't even have preformed ear hooks. I've got 4 iems now, with ear hook memory forms on the cables, and I am getting much better at it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 25, 2019)

Whoever said they use the Purple ZSN copper cable on their CCA C10, thanks for the "recommendation".  It sounds pretty awesome!!! and better than the original.


----------



## rayliam80

nraymond said:


> Just got the ZS7, and they are better than I was expecting (I like them better than the CCA C10). My usual favorite tips have interesting impacts on the sonics... Tenmak Whirlwinds seem like a good match. What's everyone else using?



Medium Auvio tips.


----------



## vegetaleb

Slater said:


> No, honestly I’ve been so happy with the ZS7 and ZS10 Pro, that I really haven’t longed for any new KZs. I can’t really imagine that adding 1 more BA driver to the ZSX will make them magically blow away the ZS7 or ZS10 Pro (regardless of what the new model name would imply). I assumed it was just going to be another side grade. But I could be wrong; I’ll wait and see once some trusted impressions roll in.
> 
> As far as the TRN, the V90 on midnight blue looks sexy as heck. It’s tempted me, but TRNs IEMs are always very iffy. So just like the ZSX, I’ve resisted ordering a V90 until some trusted impressions roll in as well.
> 
> P.S. - Glad to hear you’re getting better. We’ve missed you around here. I’m recovering from an injury myself, and spent the last few weeks bed ridden and in pain myself. It sucks when your body doesn’t cooperate lol



Do you mean the Ed16 too as ed16 = zs7?


----------



## Slater

vegetaleb said:


> Do you mean the Ed16 too as ed16 = zs7?



Sorry for the confusion; I’m referring to this ZS7:


----------



## gorman

I asked before but since you're discussing eartips I'll ask once more. What's the correct size for KZ AS10? Are there eartips that are unanimously considered better for sound/fit?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## igorneumann

mbwilson111 said:


> The RY4s is an earbud not an iem.



Guess spinfit isnt an option, then... not sure how earhooks would work or not, but they are cheap enough to try.


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 25, 2019)

rafaelroxalot said:


> Which kz has the better bass?
> Anyone tried the bluetooth module aptx hd? Is good?



I tried and it was completely broken, sounded like ****.

He sent me a regular aptx as a replacement but I still have the broken APTX-HD that I will probably manage to replace somehow.

The seller said the new ones are fixed.


----------



## Incel

igorneumann said:


> I tried and it was completely broken, sounded like ****.
> 
> He sent me a regular aptx as a replacement but I still have the broken APTX-HD that I will probably manage to replace somehow.
> 
> The seller said the new ones are fixed.


BT cables killed my right side ZS5 v1. Won't ever cheap ones again.


----------



## spectron9

hi, can someone recommend an upgrade cable for zs3/zs4 (a-type pin) - one without the memory wire. i've got trn cables with mmcx and like them much more than the kz-memory wire style... if possible a 3.5 L-jack would be fine too  i can't find ones - and just removing the memory wire is not a good idea for me - i've just destroyed my zs3e-cable... thnx


----------



## eclein

mbwilson111 said:


> We have many of them... purchased in the Trig Rain shop.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32700128989.html
> 
> I have used them on a couple of iems and it made a huge difference  for me to be able to get a seal.



Mbwilson111 is not wrong she helped me find them (thanks again mb) and we both ordered and received exactly what the gentleman asked about as I used that picture to try and find them myself over several days. She and Panda have used Trig before so they new it was a solid seller.

They make amazing differences sometimes! They seal like foam but no highs get foamed away. I’ve had very few instances where they didn’t improve fit and sound.

I’m using my old Momentum IEMs today, feeling trekkie, where they a hit or miss on headfi I wasn’t reading headfi much back then??
1000 posts....you folks are wonderful, a very inspiring bunch, thanks for reading my stuff ........next!!


----------



## rafaelroxalot

igorneumann said:


> I tried and it was completely broken, sounded like ****.
> 
> He sent me a regular aptx as a replacement but I still have the broken APTX-HD that I will probably manage to replace somehow.
> 
> The seller said the new ones are fixed.


The regular sounds fine?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Incel said:


> BT cables killed my right side ZS5 v1. Won't ever cheap ones again.


Not working anymore?
There is another cable bt not cheap to kz earphones?


----------



## rafaelroxalot

How about the better kz to bass?
My last kz ones was kz zs10 not pro version and ed4. Any of the new versions after these has better bass?
Thanks


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Does anyone use the ZSN copper cable, BQEYZ or Newbee silicones on any of your KZ iems? Which ones?

I find the C10 sounds upgraded in an amazing way with the ZSN copper cable!


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 26, 2019)

rafaelroxalot said:


> The regular sounds fine?



Yes (the APTX one, not the regular one with controllers just in one side, without a box in the other with battery) but you can expect having cable too long or cable too short (controle hanging from your ear, not resting on your shoulder), or inverted stereo or phase problem, controls can be either on the left or on the right or connection cuts... get a TRN if you wanna be safe, all KZ BT adapters are garbage.


----------



## igorneumann

Incel said:


> BT cables killed my right side ZS5 v1. Won't ever cheap ones again.



Maybe it would break anyways in a regular cable... who knows?
Failed DDs on KZ unit isnt something unusual.


----------



## igorneumann

spectron9 said:


> hi, can someone recommend an upgrade cable for zs3/zs4 (a-type pin) - one without the memory wire. i've got trn cables with mmcx and like them much more than the kz-memory wire style... if possible a 3.5 L-jack would be fine too  i can't find ones - and just removing the memory wire is not a good idea for me - i've just destroyed my zs3e-cable... thnx



I dont think there is one, maybe you can try the TRN ones, they have a silicone that stays on its form instead of  the wire KZ use, is WAY more comfy.


----------



## igorneumann

rafaelroxalot said:


> Not working anymore?
> There is another cable bt not cheap to kz earphones?



That I know of, there is this ones: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4000...hweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_53

But they are .78mm, I've heard you can fit them but the hole will stretch, you will not be able to use .75mm cable anymore.

Or just get hthe equally cheap TRN .75mm adapters.


----------



## igorneumann

rafaelroxalot said:


> How about the better kz to bass?
> My last kz ones was kz zs10 not pro version and ed4. Any of the new versions after these has better bass?
> Thanks



ZS7, ZS4, ZSR are very bassy models.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Has anyone compared any KZ models to Venture Electronics BIE iem?


----------



## igorneumann

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Has anyone compared any KZ models to Venture Electronics BIE iem?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ven...mpressions-thread.905731/page-2#post-14948474


----------



## Slater

rafaelroxalot said:


> How about the better kz to bass?
> My last kz ones was kz zs10 not pro version and ed4. Any of the new versions after these has better bass?
> Thanks



ZS7 is about the best KZ you can get for bass.

As the KZ marketing material says, "_the bass is astonishing_". And they're right!


----------



## igorneumann

Slater said:


> ZS7 is about the best KZ you can get for bass.
> 
> As the KZ marketing material says, "_the bass is astonishing_". And they're right!



Damn I want that bass, but not that corners.
Im honding up on this specific Pokemon for a long time waiting for it to evolve in a shape fit for human ears... but its taking too long to evolve.


----------



## HungryPanda

Smooth corners: check
Big Bass: check
KZ: Nope


----------



## igorneumann

HungryPanda said:


> Smooth corners: check
> Big Bass: check
> KZ: Nope



What IEM is this? 
If you tell me its below $30, Im all for trying a Digimon from time to time.


----------



## HungryPanda

sorry it is the BGVP DMS and way above $30


----------



## igorneumann

HungryPanda said:


> sorry it is the BGVP DMS and way above $30



Well... I guess it doesn't fit in my Pokeballs.

Thanks anyways! :-D


----------



## HungryPanda

Kinera Seed is very comfortable to me

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32857770506.html


----------



## baskingshark

HungryPanda said:


> Kinera Seed is very comfortable to me
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32857770506.html



How's the sound quality on this??


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

ZSX and C12 are same  We only don't  know a type of bass and mid BAs.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

So zs7 the better bass from kz?


----------



## igorneumann

HungryPanda said:


> Kinera Seed is very comfortable to me
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32857770506.html


WOW, I love the look of those, are they also bass monsters such as the ZS7?
I was between the trii i4 and the nicehck nx7 as my next acquisition but Im loving those.


----------



## igorneumann

xxAMAROKxx said:


> ZSX and C12 are same  We only don't  know a type of bass and mid BAs.


But they look to have a different tunning judging by the frequency response graphs... That said they are at different scale.

Looks like they want ti present the Terminator as the balanced one and the CCA as the V one.


----------



## jibberish

igorneumann said:


> WOW, I love the look of those, are they also bass monsters such as the ZS7?
> I was between the trii i4 and the nicehck nx7 as my next acquisition but Im loving those.


If you want a good bass heavy IEM for about $30 I would suggest looking at reviews/comments on the Semkarch CNT-1, with the caveat that multiple people have had issues with the stock mmcx cable, so you may need to spend a few more bucks on an aftermarket one.


----------



## KevDzn

The kinera seed is more of a relax and polite sq after burn-in. Not recommended for bass seekers. One of my favourites.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Kinera Seed bass increases with a wide bore tip


----------



## raccoon city

Slater said:


> ZS7 is about the best KZ you can get for bass.


Does the ZS7 have significantly more bass than the ES4?


----------



## lgcubana (Aug 26, 2019)

Errant post


----------



## HungryPanda

lgcubana said:


> It’s $11 !!! that’s like two lattes, with double skim and a twirl. just buy them already and decide for yourself.


 But then there's the upgrade cable, case and different tips. So 6 or 7 lattes in the end


----------



## HungryPanda

I just put my NiceCHK Bro's in now they are bass monsters


----------



## Nimweth

igorneumann said:


> WOW, I love the look of those, are they also bass monsters such as the ZS7?
> I was between the trii i4 and the nicehck nx7 as my next acquisition but Im loving those.


The TRI i4 with tape mod has excellent bass, similar to the ZS7.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Hi guys,

I'm a new KZ user. I have the KZ ZS7, and the KZ ZS10 Pro is on the way.

I have ordered a new cable for the ZS10 Pro, this one here, because it seems like it might be an improvement over the stock cable (and it is cheap).

Is this a good choice? I see that there are a million other choices for the ZS10 Pro, including the *TRN 16 Core Cable*, and the *KZ 8 Core Silver Cable*. I have almost no experience with replacement cables. Would any of these be a good choice? I just want to bring out more detail, and maybe tame any shrillness. 

My bigger problem is finding replacement tips. If SpinFits are good, how do I know which one is best? There are many choices on Ali, but I am not sure about size.

--

Also, I am having issues with my ZS7. I think I put the prongs in reverse fashion, and they might have been out of phase. So I switched them up (always being very careful to align L/R facings), and it's a little better. But man, that memory cable is annoying. So I've ordered this cable to replace it. Will it be an improvement? Also, the fit is less than perfect, and I don't want to use up a Comply (medium) tip on them. Are there any decent foam tips from AliExpress that will work? I need to tame its piercing treble.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans (Aug 26, 2019)

Okay, looking through the thread, I guess this cable is good for the ZS10 Pro. I could pick it up, in addition to what I have.

And sorry, that should read 'piercing highs' of the ZS7, not necessarily 'piercing treble.' It's tips that are the toughest for me to find. I need to tame those suckers.

EDIT: Crap, this and this might be the same cable.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Aug 26, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Okay, looking through the thread, I guess this cable is good for the ZS10 Pro. I could pick it up, in addition to what I have.





ShakeThoseCans said:


> And sorry, that should read 'piercing highs' of the ZS7, not necessarily 'piercing treble.' It's tips that are the toughest for me to find. I need to tame those suckers.
> 
> EDIT: Crap, this and this might be the same cable.


​
Those are the same cable. That KZ cable is fine for the ZS10 Pro. You just need to select C pin for ZS10 Pro


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Ok, good, thanks. I did select C type when I ordered it, so I should be okay.


----------



## HungryPanda

The stock starline tips work well for me


----------



## lgcubana

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Okay, looking through the thread, I guess this cable is good for the ZS10 Pro. I could pick it up, in addition to what I have.
> 
> And sorry, that should read 'piercing highs' of the ZS7, not necessarily 'piercing treble.' It's tips that are the toughest for me to find. I need to tame those suckers.
> 
> EDIT: Crap, this and this might be the same cable.


You've pretty much memorialized what goes through my head, every time that I start reading the threads. On what's next


----------



## MacAttack7

HungryPanda said:


> The stock starline tips work well for me


For which pair though? I think I have small ears or something because using the starlines on the ZS10 Pro are comfortable but they work themselves loose after a while unless I'm very still.
Same with the ED16's. 

I put Mee Audio double-flanges on the ED16's & I really like those now.
Haven't found the magic pair for the ZS10 Pro's yet...........the Mee double-flanges still slipped loose after a while because they are much heavier than the ED16's.


----------



## lgcubana

MacAttack7 said:


> For which pair though? I think I have small ears or something because using the starlines on the ZS10 Pro are comfortable but they work themselves loose after a while unless I'm very still.
> Same with the ED16's.
> 
> I put Mee Audio double-flanges on the ED16's & I really like those now.
> Haven't found the magic pair for the ZS10 Pro's yet...........the Mee double-flanges still slipped loose after a while because they are much heavier than the ED16's.


If you aren't adverse to foam, checkout New Bee or RIYO, on Amazon


----------



## mbwilson111

MacAttack7 said:


> For which pair though? I think I have small ears or something because using the starlines on the ZS10 Pro are comfortable but they work themselves loose after a while unless I'm very still.
> Same with the ED16's.
> 
> I put Mee Audio double-flanges on the ED16's & I really like those now.
> Haven't found the magic pair for the ZS10 Pro's yet...........the Mee double-flanges still slipped loose after a while because they are much heavier than the ED16's.



Check out this thread

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/


----------



## Makahl

Oh, ZSX's shell will be different compared to ZS10 Pro. It looks similar to ZSR instead:


   

Source: https://twitter.com/hckexin/status/1165889679595491329


----------



## BadReligionPunk

OMG that huge!. Well it looks huge compared to the zs10 pro.


----------



## Aparker2005

Very tempted to go on and get it but I think I'll wait for reviews for once.


----------



## baskingshark

MacAttack7 said:


> For which pair though? I think I have small ears or something because using the starlines on the ZS10 Pro are comfortable but they work themselves loose after a while unless I'm very still.
> Same with the ED16's.
> 
> I put Mee Audio double-flanges on the ED16's & I really like those now.
> Haven't found the magic pair for the ZS10 Pro's yet...........the Mee double-flanges still slipped loose after a while because they are much heavier than the ED16's.



I use spinfit CP100s for my ZS10 Pros and ZS6 and original ZS10 and they provide better fit and comfort and have better isolation, YMMV.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Okay, I've started to tame my ZS7s a little. Reshaped the cord, and installed some Comply (noise isolating) tips.

I have radically changed my opinion of them.

When I first received them, I struggled with them. I had to fight the memory cable because of an initial error connecting the cords. And didn't like the stock tips at all, which didn't seal or isolate properly. And the peaks were killing my eardrums.

But with the Comply isolation tips, they are performing much better. And I can feel the bass.

I didn't really need this much bass, but they're redefining some of my music for me. I could hardly ever find IEMs that brought Arcade Fire or even Daft Punk alive sufficiently (although the King Pros are handling the latter well). But the ZS7s play the treble harmoniously with the strong bass. I'm not missing melody, harmony, disharmony much with the ZS7, it brings them out quite well, but integrated synergistically with the bass. It's a huge difference from something like a Tin Audio T2.

I wouldn't say the soundstage is very wide, but it's deep enough, and resonant where appropriate. I'm not sure directionality is as good or sophisticated as even a good V80, but in tracks with only a few performers and instruments, it's not a big deal.  

I guess bass is more important to some of my favourite performers than I initially thought. The ZS7's finally completing some bands that felt incomplete aurally. Yeah, these will handle your bass needs in the $35 range. 

Oddly, it likes my iPod more than my cheap USB DAC. I think the DAC is a little sterile, whereas the iPod is handling hi-bitrate AAC pretty well.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans (Aug 26, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> If Kanas Pro is your first above $100 iems, you'll be surprised and regret. Regret that you've spend too much on budget level iems that buy more sidegrade rather than significant upgrade. And KP will make you realize and starting point to listen on another level IEM. But instead i also recommend KXXS, its a slight refinement of KP with thicker mids and a slight touch of mid bass to complete overall signature. ( I don't have KXXS because I already own KP but you check there is a lot of comparison on the moondrop thread)



Okay, what should a person get as their first above $100 IEM? The KXXS? I already have a couple, but right now I'm looking at the DMG. Or the iBasso IT01.


----------



## Incel

igorneumann said:


> Maybe it would break anyways in a regular cable... who knows?
> Failed DDs on KZ unit isnt something unusual.


2 in a row though? zs3 abd zs5 both on the same side in 5 minutes.


----------



## pbui44

Incel said:


> 2 in a row though? zs3 abd zs5 both on the same side in 5 minutes.



2 dead KZs, what luck.  Maybe you need fixed cable IEMs.  Eardio.com has legit Sony MH755 IEMs for $8 and older Denon AH-C700 IEMs for $25.


----------



## SoundChoice

igorneumann said:


> Damn I want that bass, but not that corners.
> Im honding up on this specific Pokemon for a long time waiting for it to evolve in a shape fit for human ears... but its taking too long to evolve.



Maybe try ZS3?


----------



## DynamicEars

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Okay, what should a person get as their first above $100 IEM? The KXXS? I already have a couple, but right now I'm looking at the DMG. Or the iBasso IT01.



depends on what signature you're into. Budget iems more like stepping stone to try many different signatures. After you know what signature do you like the most, you may upgrade with similar signature. If you like balanced with a bit touch of dynamic, KXXS or KP will be good. If you are into V shaped ones, IT01 is okay (i have them too), DMG is v shaped too but with BA configs, or tfz no 3 with single DD like KXXS/KP also same DLC driver but with more punchier bass and boosted 8khz trebles. Alternatives you may want to try newly launched BQEYZ Spring 1, or ikko OH1 (older model, because the new OH10 is more expensive)


----------



## igorneumann

SoundChoice said:


> Maybe try ZS3?



Been there...  and hated every second with it until @Slater teached us how to fix it.
But I truly love the ZS4. :-D

Also curious to know how the ZS3E peerforms.


----------



## Leo-rume (Aug 27, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> Been there...  and hated every second with it until @Slater teached us how to fix it.
> But I truly love the ZS4. :-D
> 
> Also curious to know how the ZS3E peerforms.


The ZS3E is more bassy with more somewhat artificial treble and thinner mids (to my ears). The ZS3 sounds more natural and I prefer its tuning and not by a little.


----------



## citral23

The ZSX curves and that ugly "12 Hybrid" writing are serious turnoffs, liked the black mockup at first but not the end result. Well I suppose the Terminator nickname is well chosen.


----------



## citral23 (Aug 27, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Okay, what should a person get as their first above $100 IEM? The KXXS? I already have a couple, but right now I'm looking at the DMG. Or the iBasso IT01.



I don't think the comment to which you replied made much sense, he said don't buy the KPE you'll regret it, instead go for its sidegrade the KXXS. Ahem.

Find a signature you like, on the cheap, is a good idea. If you like Harman target you'll like the KPE/KXXS. You can try a cheaper moondrop to get a taste for example.

You might prefer the clarity of the T2 (or **** V2 rev 3 for more bass and less treble)

Or v-shape might be your thing (try KZ ZS7 to get a taste of it)

Once you know what you prefer, you can look for curves that are similar, it doesn't define timbre nor many other aspects, but gives you an idea of what *not to* buy at least.


----------



## vegetaleb

Looks like the best place to ask
So if I have to pick from the following list, knowing that: 
-I use a samsung S10+ without an additional amp
-I am not a bass head but rather go into soundstage and details
-Budget max 20$
-No easy drop out from ears while walking 

Which one is better:
-**** ****
-KZ ED9
-KZ ED16
-UiiSii HM6
-KZ ZSN


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

I'm stuck trying to find the best cable for the ZS5 v2. Should I just try the KZ 8 Core Silver?


----------



## vegetaleb

vegetaleb said:


> Looks like the best place to ask
> So if I have to pick from the following list, knowing that:
> -I use a samsung S10+ without an additional amp
> -I am not a bass head but rather go into soundstage and details
> ...



I forgot to put also:
-Urbanfun Hifi


----------



## chinmie

I'm just comparing the ZS10 Pro to the OG Kanas, both paired to the TRN BT20. they really in the same tuning category more or less. the ZS10 Pro performs admirably, pushing similar subbass reach, with slightly backed mids. 
the Kanas is still obviously the better sounding (the ZS10 Pro has a slight grain in overall tone, and light having a slight veil across the mids and treble), but for the price difference, i really recommend the ZS10 Pro

i use the same Tennmak Whirlwind tips with the inner ribs removed (from now on I'll call this fillet whirlwind  )


----------



## jeromeaparis

vegetaleb said:


> Looks like the best place to ask
> So if I have to pick from the following list, knowing that:
> -I use a samsung S10+ without an additional amp
> -I am not a bass head but rather go into soundstage and details
> ...




ED16 (3 drivers) has excellent soundstage, details and instruments separation, sounds natural, but nozle being short, it stays better in the ear with a triple flange than the starlines.
ZSN (2 drivers) is brighter, sound is nice, sharp with punch, less details, smaller soundstage and instrument separation than ed16, stays very well in the ear cause the metal nozzle is longer. 
both easy to drive, dunno the others...


----------



## igorneumann

Leo-rume said:


> The ZS3E is more bassy with more somewhat artificial treble and thinner mids (to my ears). The ZS3E sounds more natural and I prefer its tuning and not by a little.



Oh, thanks... but which is which?


----------



## DynamicEars

citral23 said:


> I don't think the comment to which you replied made much sense, he said don't buy the KPE you'll regret it, instead go for its sidegrade the KXXS. Ahem.
> 
> Find a signature you like, on the cheap, is a good idea. If you like Harman target you'll like the KPE/KXXS. You can try a cheaper moondrop to get a taste for example.
> 
> ...



just to clarify I didn't say dont buy the KPE you'll regret. But instead, "you will regret.. regret that all this time you burn your money for all budget stuff sidegrade" which is means the KP is a real upgrade, along with KXXS. Sorry if my joke made misunderstanding. cheers!


----------



## igorneumann

citral23 said:


> The ZSX curves and that ugly "12 Hybrid" writing are serious turnoffs, liked the black mockup at first but not the end result. Well I suppose the Terminator nickname is well chosen.



Fear not... CCA has the solution... the CCA C12 is the terminator for us who hates the terminator faceplate!


----------



## DynamicEars

vegetaleb said:


> Looks like the best place to ask
> So if I have to pick from the following list, knowing that:
> -I use a samsung S10+ without an additional amp
> -I am not a bass head but rather go into soundstage and details
> ...



Max $20 and not bass head but prefer details and soundstage? you got your first candidate right buddy, if you dont mind mid bass bleed and weird tonality. ZSN pro is another option dont buy first generation ZSN that more v-shaped


----------



## Leo-rume

igorneumann said:


> Oh, thanks... but which is which?


Sorry my bad. I corrected the initial post. I meant to say I very much prefer the ZS3's tuning especially with the Slater mod


----------



## igorneumann (Aug 27, 2019)

vegetaleb said:


> Looks like the best place to ask
> So if I have to pick from the following list, knowing that:
> -I use a samsung S10+ without an additional amp
> -I am not a bass head but rather go into soundstage and details
> ...




Have almost all of them:
-**** **** - AWESOME, specially if you block its vents with tape for more bass (add some driver flex)
-KZ ED9 - AWESOME BUT... It doesnt stay in my ear, I need double spinfit or a earhook to be able to use it at all (same with ED15, another awesome but impossible to use IEM)
-KZ ED16 - Not a popular opinion but I dont like its tuning AT ALL, Get the Kbear KB06 instead, is like a fixed ED16 and you can also increase its bass blocking its vents
-UiiSii HM6 - No idea
-KZ ZSN - Thats a safe bet, is like the Vanilla of cheap-IEM.

Technically, the best one: The ****
The best one if you prefer cable over your ear: The KBEar KB06
The most Fun: ZSN Pro

Also consider: TRN V80 and IM1.

The V80 has a wonderful aluminum shell that fits perfectly and its a hella fun IEM (Like it WAy MORE THAN THE zsn) but, IT doesnt like any BT adapter, you'll need to use the crappy KZ ones instead of the good TRN ones. (the TRN BT adapoters add a lot of noise)
The IM1 is more of a U shaped curve, I truly love it but would prefer a more balanced one if was my only IEM.


----------



## igorneumann

Incel said:


> 2 in a row though? zs3 abd zs5 both on the same side in 5 minutes.



HOLYMOLY, yeah, thats probably a broken adapter... 
Why dont you tried in the OTHER SIDE of the same IEM so you dont ruin 2 of them?

I bought more than 10 of these, never had a similar problem.


----------



## vegetaleb

igorneumann said:


> Have almost all of them:
> -**** **** - AWESOME, specially if you block its vents with tape for more bass (add some driver flex)
> -KZ ED9 - AWESOME BUT... It doesnt stay in my ear, I need wither double spinfit or a earhook to be able to use it at all (same with ED15, another awesome but impossible to use IEM)
> -KZ ED16 - Not a popular opinion but I dont like its tuning AT ALL, Get the Kbear KB06 instead, is like a fixed ED16 and you can also increase its bass blocking its vents
> ...



Thanks for the details, I will check the kb06, v80 and iM1
Do you think the galaxy s10+ can drive correctly the ****?


----------



## KipNix

igorneumann said:


> Damn I want that bass, but not that corners.


 See if you can get your hands on a set of _discontinued_ KZ DT5. They are physically *heavy* and have some pounding sub-bass.


----------



## igorneumann

KipNix said:


> See if you can get your hands on a set of _discontinued_ KZ DT5. They are physically *heavy* and have some pounding sub-bass.



That physically heavy worries me as I cant use neither the ED9 nor the ED15 because they are heavy and just fall from my ears... I have to either use double spinfit or a earhook.
They dont look to be available anywhere, anyways.


----------



## igorneumann

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks for the details, I will check the kb06, v80 and iM1
> Do you think the galaxy s10+ can drive correctly the ****?



Yes, all of those are easy to drive...


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> Hey, to those with the ZS3. I found a new mod tonight.
> 
> It has been previously posted by a few people that removing the red screen on the very end of the nozzle affects the sound. Removing it reduces the bass quantity slightly (while simultaneously removing the muddiness), and also improves the midrange.
> 
> ...



Bringing this slater mod post back for posterity... The camera and diagram were helpful seeing location and depth of the ZS3 foam mod. If I can ask, something similar would be helpful for those wanting to remove stock dampers from T800.


----------



## vegetaleb

I think I will pick the ****, it looks like having better soundstage and mids than v80 no?


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

citral23 said:


> I don't think the comment to which you replied made much sense, he said don't buy the KPE you'll regret it, instead go for its sidegrade the KXXS. Ahem.
> 
> Find a signature you like, on the cheap, is a good idea. If you like Harman target you'll like the KPE/KXXS. You can try a cheaper moondrop to get a taste for example.
> 
> ...




Hmm. That makes a lot of sense. I guess I have been trying a lot of IEMs lately because I caught the Chi-Fi bug. Since 11.11, I have acquired at least 9 different models.

I've learned some things about what I like or not.

I didn't enjoy the Tin Audio T2 all that much because, even though it is fairly accurate and neutral, it really lacks bass. Like to the point where I am listening for it and not finding any. It sounds kind of wispy or distant, and doesn't really foreground what I am looking for. And it sounds kind of sterile or mechanical. I still have uses for it - it is good for direction-finding in PC gaming, and good for classical. But it lacks the "fun" that I guess I am looking for in an IEM.

The V80s were a pleasant surprise. I opened them last, and yet they were unabashedly the best as a transit IEM. Sure, their sound signature is just plain _wrong_. It's forced, and it's a stressful presentation. But it keeps up with rapid tracks from various rock bands, and is very energetic. So it has a real use outside of the home. Even though it's not a reference IEM.

I'm not against reasonable sound signatures, though. I have the Y*nY*o V2 (revision 1) from 2018, and actually came to enjoy it. At first, I though it sounded weak, and too soft. But then I put foam tips on it, and it rounded the sound and brought out more detail somehow. Maybe just a better seal. It has a somewhat warm presentation, and a relaxed sound signature. It is great for "comedown" music, like The Strokes' "Comedown Machine" or Matthew Good Band (all his albums are like a musical Valium). 

Those were my first 3 real Chi-Fi, and helped influence some recent purchases. I wanted to try and top the V80, so I ordered a ZS7. It may indeed have stronger bass, if that is needed, and its tonality is not as weird as the V80. It presents some bands, like Arcade Fire, more naturally or more compellingly.

Since I kinda liked the V80, and wasn't keen on the T2, I asked around for something that had the directionality and punchy bass of the V80, but with more detail and a wider soundstage. I was recommended the King Pro, and picked one up. Once given a strong enough source, it's actually pretty good. But where it really excels is jazz, which I didn't expect. So I don't necessarily have a 'better V80' yet, since I need a performer for rock / indie rock / alternative / prog rock / post-punk. 

Since I also kinda liked the Y*nY*o V2, I asked around for a 'better V2.' [Rev. 3 didn't exist.] Because the V2 has a 'warm' signature, and the bass isn't terrible, someone suggested the VSONIC ARES, which I think is the GR08. I have one now, and in some ways it is a 'better V2.' It's smooth, and relaxed, and easy listening. But it lacks punch, and the audio is too recessed. It's a "thin" sound signature, except when it isn't. 

Given this epic tale, maybe it's possible to ascertain what I should get next. I like detail, I like wide and deep soundstages, I really like sophisticated directionality, but I dislike overly-bright IEMs like some of the T2 models. V and W shape are okay, but I'm not wedded to them. I like instrument separation and being able to hear every string being played. Vocals should be foregrounded. But I prefer a 'warm' sound to a neutral signature, although not by much. I'm not looking for a reference IEM, just a detailed one, maybe some 'sparkle.' I want to be at the front of the concert, or even among the band.  Something with the V80's bass and directionality that could handle a wider range of music, with more accurate tonality would be okay, or a better V2 that is more lively and isn't too recessed. I'm not sure if the DMG or the IT01 fits any of those better, but I'll probably try them. The DM6 sounds appealing.

Thanks to the recent sale, I've got a CNT-1 coming. And finally, the KZ ZS-10 Pro. I've been waiting a long time for this one. Kept meaning to get it, but other sales interfered. If I can get it to isolate properly, it could finally dethrone the V80 as a prime transit IEM.


----------



## Makahl (Aug 27, 2019)

igorneumann said:


> Fear not... CCA has the solution... the CCA C12 is the terminator for us who hates the terminator faceplate!



lol it's not like the CCA is much better with this logo in bold.
  

But at least it's looking comfier than zsx.


----------



## eclein

I’ve found this combination works best for me with ZS10 pro.


Spinfit medium CP145 tips and a 16 core cable I got on Amazon (pricey but the ZS10 pro is totally worth it).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FSPFD8R/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_AjwzDbBJNWTMY

Smooth sound top to bottom, just the right amount of low end and every other end to me!


----------



## citral23

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Hmm. That makes a lot of sense. I guess I have been trying a lot of IEMs lately because I caught the Chi-Fi bug. Since 11.11, I have acquired at least 9 different models.
> 
> I've learned some things about what I like or not.
> 
> ...



Well you seem to be on the right path, I'm sure you'll find your endgame eventually.

Personally I like a bit of everything, depending  I on what I listen,  but don't like having duplicates.

So far it's pretty good I think : V2 rev 3 for work, Einsear T2 as backup (ppl happen to talk to me often, which is incredibly annoying. So no over the ear as it's cumbersome). I'd loved to have a crescent but I pulled the trigger too late and 2 sellers accepted my offer but finally cancelled as it was sold out.

ZS7 for death metal, Kool Keith style hip-hop, EDM.

Kanas pro for Jazz, and otherwise acoustic music. I'm in heaven with it and could only have that one, but I'm happy to have more.

KB100 in my bag for everyday as I'm not taking the kanas pro out, I'm cheap.

SHP9500 with Sure earpads (made the bass come to life) is also superb.

Only let down in my journey was **** (horrible) and somewhat the ZS10 pro which I think is overrated, but happy to have it for crap conditions to not risk another one, it's "ok, C-" in my book.

I'm in relaxed "wait & see" mode now, contempt.


----------



## Slater

citral23 said:


> Well you seem to be on the right path, I'm sure you'll find your endgame eventually.



I’m so glad I found my end game 

Although it’s taken a long time to get there.


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> I’m so glad I found my end game
> 
> Although it’s taken a long time to get there.



T800?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Slater said:


> I’m so glad I found my end game
> 
> Although it’s taken a long time to get there.


No secrets! Friends don't keep secrets from each other. Lol


----------



## citral23

Slater said:


> I’m so glad I found my end game
> 
> Although it’s taken a long time to get there.



Teaser


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

vegetaleb said:


> I forgot to put also:
> -Urbanfun Hifi



**** for soundstage and details if that's your primary requirement. Many members have had varied experiences, so be wary of that. Personally I adore them and like its airy soundstage and details.

ED9 - Fantastic for $9! But soundstage wise it's okay. Not brilliant not bad. Filters let you tweak what you want in terms if detail retrieval

ZSN - Probably the best $20 can get you even today. Does everything and is super comfortable. V-shaped signature but totally makes go Patrick Swayze from Dirty Dancing once you plug them in!


----------



## eclein

Seriously reading all these quotes of long quotes making even longer quotes is very difficult to read from a phone...endless scrolling, constantly rereading posts and then we get no payoff.....Slater whats the iem.....t800? 
If so why are so many up for sale in the trading post, any idea anybody? Are they not waiting long enough? Is it too bright?
I’m gonna grab some but I’m hesitating now: a) because my ears aren’t 100% yet, b) because all these folks are selling? c) same with Tin P1 which I thought was close to if not the best of the planar iems?

Now KZ and CCA are trying something newish, where’s the C20? I wanted a C20 didn’t you guys?

I’m in an “enjoy my current crop” formation but we all know thats lip service......lollol....T800 is still awesome correct?


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> T800?





BadReligionPunk said:


> No secrets! Friends don't keep secrets from each other. Lol





citral23 said:


> Teaser



@DynamicEars is correct.

Audiosense T800

It’s goooood


----------



## vegetaleb

Dani157 said:


> **** for soundstage and details if that's your primary requirement. Many members have had varied experiences, so be wary of that. Personally I adore them and like its airy soundstage and details.
> 
> ED9 - Fantastic for $9! But soundstage wise it's okay. Not brilliant not bad. Filters let you tweak what you want in terms if detail retrieval
> 
> ZSN - Probably the best $20 can get you even today. Does everything and is super comfortable. V-shaped signature but totally makes go Patrick Swayze from Dirty Dancing once you plug them in!



Zsn old version or the Pro?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

vegetaleb said:


> Zsn old version or the Pro?



I have non pro version.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm sitting on a train listening to the new Tool album with my Rose Mini 6 Pro plugged into my Sony NW- A45 and this is very good


----------



## DynamicEars

vegetaleb said:


> Zsn old version or the Pro?



I got both
Bass texture : pro
Bass quantity : old
Soundstage : pro
Mids : pro (more forwarded and safe from upper mod 3 khz peak)

For your criteria, if you want to go with zsn, the pro one will suits you better IMHO


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

citral23 said:


> Well you seem to be on the right path, I'm sure you'll find your endgame eventually.
> 
> Only let down in my journey was **** (horrible) and somewhat the ZS10 pro which I think is overrated, but happy to have it for **** conditions to not risk another one, it's "ok, C-" in my book.



Hah, that's pretty funny. I have been close to pulling the trigger on the ****, because it is cheap right now. But I don't really need one. I figure if I already have better IEMs, then it's a waste of money/time (unless I like its signature).

(I've also been contemplating the BL-03).

But I think the takeaway from all this is that I should become familiar with different sound signatures from different IEM types. You've mentioned the Kanas / Moondrop a number of times, and that it is tuned to a Harman Curve.

So I'll have to keep an eye out for Kanas, maybe the next sale as I have blown my budget I think...


----------



## PhonoPhi

> ...
> Audiosense T800
> 
> It’s goooood



What is your source to handle their ultralow impedance?


----------



## Slater (Aug 27, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> What is your source to handle their ultralow impedance?



ES100 handles it no problemo. Zero hiss whatsoever. It sounds stellar with the ES100.

Best 2 purchases of 2019 (ES100 and T800). In fact, I’d say it’s my best 2 purchases of the last 5 years.

The T800 is the real deal. And I’m not just saying that because certain popular YouTubers rank the T800 highly. I already had my T800 weeks before it was ever mentioned by the YouTuber. I knew it was gonna be good, because I’ve been building my own IEMs using the same or similar Knowles drivers. So I basically knew what to expect.

I also sent some feature ideas to Radsone that they could use for a successor to the ES100. Hopefully they’ll use my ideas and cook up something really special for down the road


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> ES100 handles it no problemo. Zero hiss whatsoever. It sounds stellar with the ES100.
> 
> Best 2 purchases of 2019 (ES100 and T800). In fact, I’d say it’s my best 2 purchases of the last 5 years.
> 
> ...



Great story, thank you!
(I do not watch youtubers - life is too short for this)


----------



## Slater (Aug 27, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Great story, thank you!
> (I do not watch youtubers - life is too short for this)



I only mentioned because I don’t want to sound like I was simply jumping on a FOTM hype train, or blindly following someone’s “best of” list. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but that’s just not how I roll. The T800 deserves every bit of it’s accolades (for those that are looking for that kind of sound signature).


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> ES100 handles it no problemo. Zero hiss whatsoever. It sounds stellar with the ES100.
> 
> Best 2 purchases of 2019 (ES100 and T800). In fact, I’d say it’s my best 2 purchases of the last 5 years.
> 
> ...


Your comments about the ES100 are moving me to that device. I'm looking to free up my smartphone from an attached dac/amp, but still have higher output from balanced and limited battery power drain from my smartphone. I was looking at the E1DA that's being recd on the Discovery thread (and while it really looks like a giant killer in terms of power,  specs  and resolution) I don't like how much power this will draw on my smartphone's battery, and the fact that I will still have to buy a decent sized power bank to keep my phone charged, while using the E1DA. Altogether, the E1DA system seems more complex than my Q1MK2 hooked up to my smartphone via a short OTG USB-C to USB mini connection cable, and a few strips of 3M Dual Lock to attach the dac/amp to my smartphone. I'm starting to think that the Earsonics ES100 is a better option now. My goal is to reduce the weight and complexity of my current setup, and allow me more functionality with my smartphone, while still retaining high SQ. I'm gonna pull the plug on the ES100 tomorrow. It's $129 on Amazon.ca and includes fast 2 day shipping, cause I'm a Prime member. Thanks, @Slater! Looking forward to getting this device.


----------



## lgcubana (Aug 27, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Your comments about the ES100 are moving me to that device. I'm looking to free up my smartphone from an attached dac/amp, but still have higher output from balanced and limited battery power drain from my smartphone. I was looking at the E1DA that's being recd on the Discovery thread (and while it really looks like a giant killer in terms of power,  specs  and resolution) I don't like how much power this will draw on my smartphone's battery, and the fact that I will still have to buy a decent sized power bank to keep my phone charged, while using the E1DA. Altogether, the E1DA system seems more complex than my Q1MK2 hooked up to my smartphone via a short OTG USB-C to USB mini connection cable, and a few strips of 3M Dual Lock to attach the dac/amp to my smartphone. I'm starting to think that the Earsonics ES100 is a better option now. My goal is to reduce the weight and complexity of my current setup, and allow me more functionality with my smartphone, while still retaining high SQ. I'm gonna pull the plug on the ES100 tomorrow. It's $129 on Amazon.ca and includes fast 2 day shipping, cause I'm a Prime member. Thanks, @Slater! Looking forward to getting this device.


The ES100 completed my goal, for a portable solution.  There's a lot to like about the feature set; one that doesn't get much mention is the ability to store up to four EQ presets.  It's like Radsone knows you have more than one set of IEMs 

I don't know if it's an option on Amazon.ca, but I opted for the 3 yr warranty for $11 USD. I know that the unit is going to get dinged, with daily pocket carry.


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


> The ES100 completed my goal, for a portable solution.  There's a lot to like about the feature set; one that doesn't get much mention is the ability to store up to four EQ presets.  It's like Radsone knows you have more than one set of IEMs
> 
> I don't know if it's an option on Amazon.ca, but I opted for the 3 yr warranty for $11 USD. I know that the unit is going to get dinged, with daily pocket carry.


That extra warranty might be worth it. If it's offered on Amazon.ca, I'll probably add it. Thanks for the info and heads up!


----------



## Slater (Aug 27, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Your comments about the ES100 are moving me to that device. I'm looking to free up my smartphone from an attached dac/amp, but still have higher output from balanced and limited battery power drain from my smartphone. I was looking at the E1DA that's being recd on the Discovery thread (and while it really looks like a giant killer in terms of power,  specs  and resolution) I don't like how much power this will draw on my smartphone's battery, and the fact that I will still have to buy a decent sized power bank to keep my phone charged, while using the E1DA. Altogether, the E1DA system seems more complex than my Q1MK2 hooked up to my smartphone via a short OTG USB-C to USB mini connection cable, and a few strips of 3M Dual Lock to attach the dac/amp to my smartphone. I'm starting to think that the Earsonics ES100 is a better option now. My goal is to reduce the weight and complexity of my current setup, and allow me more functionality with my smartphone, while still retaining high SQ. I'm gonna pull the plug on the ES100 tomorrow. It's $129 on Amazon.ca and includes fast 2 day shipping, cause I'm a Prime member. Thanks, @Slater! Looking forward to getting this device.



I bought mine when it was on sale for $74.99usd, but it’s easily worth double that. It goes on flash sales and coupon sales a number of times a year. It’s at $80 a lot, but it’s been at $74.99 a few times.

Honesty, since I’ve gotten the ES100 I am using my DAP and FiiO amps less and less. I was planning on replacing my aging xduoo X3 with an ibasso DX120, but since I got the ES100 I am seriously reconsidering that move.

Like you said, it’s a lot of bulk and hassle to lug all that stuff around when all you want to do is listen to some tunes in the park or while walking the dog or whatnot.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I bought mine when it was on sale for $74.99usd, but it’s easily worth double that. It goes on flash sales and coupon sales a number of times a year. It’s at $80 a lot, but it’s been at $74.99 a few times.
> 
> Honesty, since I’ve gotten the ES100 I am using my DAP and FiiO amps less and less. I was planning on replacing my aging xduoo X3 with an ibasso DX120, but since I got the ES100 I am seriously reconsidering that move.
> 
> Like you said, it’s a lot of bulk and hassle to lug all that stuff around when all you want to do is listen to some tunes in the park or while walking the dog or whatnot.


Yeah, from all the posts and reviews I've seen, this unit might just be what I'm looking for. Wireless connection with 24 bit capability makes this very attractive. I could still take photos, while enjoying high rez music, from my smartphone. With my Q1MK2 attached, it covers my rear camera on my phone, so I can't take pictures while enjoying my music. Also love the fact that the ES100 has 2.5mm balanced output. That's HUGE for me. From everything I've read, the app also allows for many EQ options...which I  like alot. I don't shy away from EQ...in fact, I endorse it! As long as it's applied well, I love having the ability to tune in the sound. Can't wait to get this thing!


----------



## Slater (Aug 27, 2019)

What’s wrong with this picture?


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> What’s wrong with this picture?


That was me, a few months ago! LOL! Hopefully others can figure out the over ear thing, like I did. I don't find this looping the wire over my ears at all natural, but it does work, once you get the hang of it. I like this method provides me with a much better fit compared to a straight hang down method.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> That was me, a few months ago! LOL! Hopefully others can figure out the over ear thing, like I did. I don't find this looping the wire over my ears at all natural, but it does work, once you get the hang of it. I like this method provides me with a much better fit compared to a straight hang down method.



I had to fit them in front of a mirror for a long time.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> That was me, a few months ago! LOL! Hopefully others can figure out the over ear thing, like I did. I don't find this looping the wire over my ears at all natural, but it does work, once you get the hang of it. I like this method provides me with a much better fit compared to a straight hang down method.



No way! Small world! Someone saw it on Reddit, and I had to share. I heard that someone in the Reddit comments was nice enough to get you all squared away.

I applaud anyone who is willing to upgrade from Apple and Skullcandy earphone hell to the land of better sound. Even if there is a learning curve at first!


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> That was me, a few months ago! LOL!



Wait... I am confused.  Did you mean that is an actual photo of you?


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> Wait... I am confused.  Did you mean that is an actual photo of you?


No...that pic was in @Slater's post. Not my ears, but could've easily been. Bought my first iems in February of this year...Moondrop KanasPro. Had a heck of a time getting them seated, since I haven't had any experience for over 19 years with iems. Everything I've tried so far, has been a huge improvement on my original iem experience...Shure E5C'S, that I paid huge $$ for, back in 2005. I hated them, and quickly sold them...and went to over ears headphones.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> .Moondrop KanasPro.



I have heard of some people having fit issues with those but then I suppose almost any iem will have someone who cannot wear it.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> No way! Small world! Someone saw it on Reddit, and I had to share. I heard that someone in the Reddit comments was nice enough to get you all squared away.
> 
> I applaud anyone who is willing to upgrade from Apple and Skullcandy earphone hell to the land of better sound. Even if there is a learning curve at first!


Sorry, bro... but that wasn't me. I don't even have a Reddit account. I've got a Discord account, but don't spend much time on it. Only joined that, cause of YouTubers that I was following at the time, but no longer do. I follow Zpolt on YouTube...as well as BGGAR and Zreviews. Only support BGGAR on Patreon. He's legit, and donates a portion of what he gets from his Patrons to an animal rescue. As a cat owner, I respect that. I also get entered into his raffles/draws each month. I pledge $10/month via PayPal. He's very transparent and isn't like alot of those other YouTubers, who are looking to finance their lifestyle with other people's money. He's got a real job, which pays him well enough...and he's not a shill because he doesn't need to be. Love the guy for that. Yeah, he gets angry sometimes and uses foul language sometimes.. but that's what makes him real. He's a champion for anyone who is a working class guy, and doesn't want to be screwed over by the Western TOTL companies, who seem to think that charging premium prices, somehow equates to best sound


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I have heard of some people having fit issues with those but then I suppose almost any iem will have someone who cannot wear it.


They are heavy, but small. Construction is exemplary. I love how easily they fit into my ears. The heaviness of the shells is negated by using cables that can loop over ear. I've got a sweet 16 core, pure copper C16 ISN cable with a balanced 2.5mm connector on this set...no earhooks. I've listened to this setup for multiple hours, with no fatigue.


----------



## Assimilator702

Makahl said:


> lol it's not like the CCA is much better with this logo in bold.
> 
> 
> But at least it's looking comfier than zsx.


How did you get them so early? Will you post impressions in the CCA thread soon? Those both look nice but the blue version is the one I just ordered. Got them for $31 and change with a $2 coupon I had.


----------



## Makahl

Assimilator702 said:


> How did you get them so early? Will you post impressions in the CCA thread soon? Those both look nice but the blue version is the one I just ordered. Got them for $31 and change with a $2 coupon I had.



Oh, it's not mine. I got the pics from Twitter and I forgot to put the source this time.


----------



## vegetaleb

I am 90% convinced I will grab the ZSN pro, it ticks most of my requirements:
-very good mids
-good soundstage
-no overwhelmed bass
-under 20$
-doesn't fall easily 
The only downsides are a slight bass bleed in the mids and slightly harsh treble, meaning I will have to tweak the equaliser.
About the cable, can I use zs4's cable?


----------



## DynamicEars

vegetaleb said:


> I am 90% convinced I will grab the ZSN pro, it ticks most of my requirements:
> -very good mids
> -good soundstage
> -no overwhelmed bass
> ...



regarding mid bass bleed, since ZSN pro KZ has made very good improvement, there is minimal bass bleed into the mids, if youre talking old ZSN yes they do have bass bleed. Trebles i cant say smooth but its already better, its a budget iem afterall dont expect to be very very good. For $12-15, they are already considered very good.

about ZS4 cables, no ZSN pro use para C, it will stick out a bit, it can be connected, but it will stick out. I mean it will work if you dont mind the cable is sticking out of place (and not too safe for your pins)


----------



## vegetaleb

DynamicEars said:


> regarding mid bass bleed, since ZSN pro KZ has made very good improvement, there is minimal bass bleed into the mids, if youre talking old ZSN yes they do have bass bleed. Trebles i cant say smooth but its already better, its a budget iem afterall dont expect to be very very good. For $12-15, they are already considered very good.
> 
> about ZS4 cables, no ZSN pro use para C, it will stick out a bit, it can be connected, but it will stick out. I mean it will work if you dont mind the cable is sticking out of place (and not too safe for your pins)



Can I find a cable with memory wire on aliexpress compatible with zsn pro?


----------



## Assimilator702

HungryPanda said:


> I'm sitting on a train listening to the new Tool album with my Rose Mini 6 Pro plugged into my Sony NW- A45 and this is very good


I was listening to the new Tool on my TFZ No. 3 on my Magni 3 and I started to tear up it sounded so good. The No.3 are more of a smooth listen but not with the new Tool. That was so dynamic and punchy I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.


----------



## Assimilator702

vegetaleb said:


> Can I find a cable with memory wire on aliexpress compatible with zsn pro?


Unless you have a problem with the memory hooks you shouldn’t have to. The ZSN PRO cable is good. You could always use your ZS4 cable. The best route would be to find the KZ set that uses the memory wire hooks and use that one.

When I bought my ZS10 PRO it shipped with the cable you’re talking about by accident. Can’t stand memory wires myself.


----------



## HungryPanda

It is a truly fantastic album.


----------



## DynamicEars

vegetaleb said:


> Can I find a cable with memory wire on aliexpress compatible with zsn pro?



yes a lot of 3rd party cable manufacturer now come out with para C as well


----------



## nxnje

vegetaleb said:


> I am 90% convinced I will grab the ZSN pro, it ticks most of my requirements:
> -very good mids
> -good soundstage
> -no overwhelmed bass
> ...



ZSN Pro are surrounded by the hype. 
My opinion is that they're very good for the price, being a 70% of the ZS10 Pro pratically.
Anyway, treble gets a bit harsh sometimes, and soundstage is just average. Don't expect ZS6/ZS7 soundstage.
I'm sure you'll like it anyway, i mean almost everyone does and for the price we cannot ask more (but the QT5 is way better IMHO for some more dollars).
In any case, good luck with your shopping and enjoy your ZSN Pro, I'm sure i would have spoken even better if I didn't have much more stuff as the ZSN Pro are truly great for the price.


----------



## vegetaleb

nxnje said:


> ZSN Pro are surrounded by the hype.
> My opinion is that they're very good for the price, being a 70% of the ZS10 Pro pratically.
> Anyway, treble gets a bit harsh sometimes, and soundstage is just average. Don't expect ZS6/ZS7 soundstage.
> I'm sure you'll like it anyway, i mean almost everyone does and for the price we cannot ask more (but the QT5 is way better IMHO for some more dollars).
> In any case, good luck with your shopping and enjoy your ZSN Pro, I'm sure i would have spoken even better if I didn't have much more stuff as the ZSN Pro are truly great for the price.



Actually the QT5 are under 20$ so I can get a pair,


nxnje said:


> ZSN Pro are surrounded by the hype.
> My opinion is that they're very good for the price, being a 70% of the ZS10 Pro pratically.
> Anyway, treble gets a bit harsh sometimes, and soundstage is just average. Don't expect ZS6/ZS7 soundstage.
> I'm sure you'll like it anyway, i mean almost everyone does and for the price we cannot ask more (but the QT5 is way better IMHO for some more dollars).
> In any case, good luck with your shopping and enjoy your ZSN Pro, I'm sure i would have spoken even better if I didn't have much more stuff as the ZSN Pro are truly great for the price.



Damn! Just when I was going to place an order, you show me the QT5 
Actually they are under 20$ so I can get them.
The 2 pins cord is B or C? I mean the zs3/4 cable I have are compatible?
Can you drive them as well as KZ iem on a good smartphone like the S10+?


----------



## nxnje

vegetaleb said:


> Actually the QT5 are under 20$ so I can get a pair,
> 
> 
> Damn! Just when I was going to place an order, you show me the QT5
> ...



If you wanna drive them with your smartphone then all changes.
I like the QT5 but i feel they really smash if connected to an amplifier, they improve in everything while you'll just pull 75% of em without an amp. 
If you wanna driver them without an amp, i'd suggest buying the ZSN Pro so, as they're more energic and vivid with lower power sources.
If you have a 20$ budget, you could buy ZSN Pro + KZ EDR1 (which I always suggest and I still use many times even if I've got more expensive stuff).

Regarding the cable, I've never understood this A/B/C differences.
What I can say is that I use my QT5 with ZS7 and V80 cables with no problems.
Hope it helps.


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 28, 2019)

vegetaleb said:


> Zsn old version or the Pro?


I have both. 
PRO is awesome! I personally like the ZSN PRO more!


----------



## vegetaleb

1clearhead said:


> I have both.
> PRO is awesome! I personally like the ZSN PRO more!



Thanks
One last question, what about the ZS5? Are they better than ZSN pro for details and mids ir the bass is too bleeding?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 28, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> I have both.
> PRO is awesome! I personally like the ZSN PRO more!


I was thinking of getting the Pro but even though the ZSN is my fave it sounds metallic for some reason. 

Does the ZSN Pro sound metallic at all?


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I was thinking of getting the Pro but even though the ZSN is my fave it sounds metallic for some reason.
> 
> Does the ZSN Pro sound metallic at all?



still sound steely on timbre, with almost all hybrid KZ sound like that, they have improve so much in tuning, but I think tonality wise more depends on its sound source, their BA. As long as they still use same BA, i think they will sound steely


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 28, 2019)

I just ordered two models of BQEYZ's (KB100/KB1). If they are a huge improvement over KZ's I will be no longer be following this KZ thread.

After buying 15 KZ's, it's probably time to move on. Especially since KZ doesn't seem to be making huge improvements.


----------



## igorneumann

Makahl said:


> lol it's not like the CCA is much better with this logo in bold.
> 
> 
> But at least it's looking comfier than zsx.



It would be so much better if doesnt had ink in it... But I still like it.


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just ordered two models of BQEYZ's (KB100/KB1). If they are a huge improvement over KZ's I will be no longer be following this KZ thread.
> 
> After buying 15 KZ's, it's probably time to move on. Especially since KZ doesn't seem to be making huge improvements.



I won't say huge improvement like you are going from KZ to above $150 iems like Moondrop Kanas Pro or tanchjim oxygen. depends on what KZ also. For example between my KB100 and ZS10 pro, there is no clear winner. Each one have pros and cons like soundstage wider in ZS10 pro, but imaging more precise in KB100, micro details are better in ZS10 pro but tonality wise KB100 sounds more correct and natural to me, not steely. Kb100 highs sounds smoother, ZS10 pro sounds harsher if compared directly, but ZS10 pro handles busier tracks better. Sub bass also better on ZS10 pro without mid bass bleed, KB100 have slight mid bass bleed.
But personally for me I still prefer KB100 just because of tonality. That steely timbre from KZ BA really bugging me to be honest. Each of them still have room for improvements. They are both great value on their own way


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

courierdriver said:


> Your comments about the ES100 are moving me to that device. I'm looking to free up my smartphone from an attached dac/amp, but still have higher output from balanced and limited battery power drain from my smartphone.
> 
> I'm starting to think that the Earsonics ES100 is a better option now. My goal is to reduce the weight and complexity of my current setup, and allow me more functionality with my smartphone, while still retaining high SQ. I'm gonna pull the plug on the ES100 tomorrow. It's $129 on Amazon.ca and includes fast 2 day shipping, cause I'm a Prime member. Thanks, @Slater! Looking forward to getting this device.



This is very interesting to me, as I am thinking of purchasing my first mobile AMP / DAC equipment. I don't need wireless capability, though, and am using an 'obsolete' iPod Touch Gen 4 at the moment.

The ES100 sounds highly-rated. But it may be overly complex for my needs. Is there something you would recommend (particularly on Amazon.ca) as a basic wired DAC/AMP for iPod / iPad?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

igorneumann said:


> But they look to have a different tunning judging by the frequency response graphs... That said they are at different scale.
> 
> Looks like they want ti present the Terminator as the balanced one and the CCA as the V one.



Yes, graphs are at different scale ... and that's all. Frequency response looks totaly same.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

So there's no reason to get ZSN Pro if you already have a ZS10 Pro? (No reason other than cost).


----------



## citral23

ShakeThoseCans said:


> So there's no reason to get ZSN Pro if you already have a ZS10 Pro? (No reason other than cost).



Literally 0 imo.

Buy some earbuds or something with the money


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Thanks. Maybe I'll consider the ZS3 for reasons of comfort.


----------



## Mouseman (Aug 28, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> So there's no reason to get ZSN Pro if you already have a ZS10 Pro? (No reason other than cost).


I would say no. I have both, don't really use the Pros anymore.


----------



## PhonoPhi

ShakeThoseCans said:


> So there's no reason to get ZSN Pro if you already have a ZS10 Pro? (No reason other than cost).


ZSN pro has a better DD with a bit more extended and a bit punchy lows.
Pro is a more V-shape. To me its an improvement, though a moderate one. I personally prefer warmer CCA CA4 from the same family


----------



## 1clearhead

vegetaleb said:


> Thanks
> One last question, what about the ZS5? Are they better than ZSN pro for details and mids ir the bass is too bleeding?


I find the PRO's just fine with little to no bleeding at all boasting a very strong and stable sound signature. They have better control throughout the whole sound range and spectrum when compared to the ZS5. I find them more pristine and mature sounding as well. Don't get me wrong, I still like the slight laid-back signature of the ZS5, but the PRO's just takes every song to another level with livelier details and musicality., IMHO.


----------



## Incel (Aug 28, 2019)

pbui44 said:


> 2 dead KZs, what luck.  Maybe you need fixed cable IEMs.  Eardio.com has legit Sony MH755 IEMs for $8 and older Denon AH-C700 IEMs for $25.


Yes I only use MH750 now.



igorneumann said:


> HOLYMOLY, yeah, thats probably a broken adapter...
> Why dont you tried in the OTHER SIDE of the same IEM so you dont ruin 2 of them?
> 
> I bought more than 10 of these, never had a similar problem.


Yes I tried in other cables and other sides and it was permanently damaged. It is still decent sounding but it's too low in volume I think an amplifier was destroyed or something. It's such a shame, they weren't the best fitting, kinda heavy and the smooth nozzle sucked but it was a nice sounding IEM. Same with ZS3. Probably a fuse or something but the MH755 sound better anyway and it's easier to use them.


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 28, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I was thinking of getting the Pro but even though the ZSN is my fave it sounds metallic for some reason.
> 
> Does the ZSN Pro sound metallic at all?


I know what you mean, since I have both.  I think the KZ company thought the same thing by eliminating most of that metallic sound especially at higher volumes where the original ZSN's just sounded too splashy as well. So, even though I like both, the KZ company pretty much fixed that little issue by introducing the PRO's.


----------



## El Fuinha

https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=jbm5d21&logNo=221631585574&navType=tl


----------



## Makahl (Aug 28, 2019)

Today I was tip-rolling and I've found out the ZS10 Pro and JVC Spiral Dots to be a bit shouty and like some people say "steely" compared to smaller bore tips, it's like high-peaks get a bit uncontrolled.
However, I do really enjoy the increase in wideness aspect that JVC tips help to bring. For my luck, while reading the forum I spotted the james444's signature which has some cool mods and I came across with his* DUNU 2000J Blu-Tack mod*.

It's interesting, the design choice from DUNU for this model is similar to KZ in putting a BA in the nozzle which I do believe is the main reason to create an artificial-ish timbre at higher volumes since they can get a bit shouty without proper damping. This mod seems to fix this extra "steely" tonality to me and it is rather easy to do. Btw, james444 isn't joking when he says to pinch off the _smallest_ piece of Blu-Tack, my smallest piece of Blu-tack ended up being way too much.

My goal was to make the nozzle grill looks like a watch, with a mini-screwdriver it helps a lot to adjust it to the center.



>



I can say IMO the timbre gets more organic, the peaks get better controlled so I perceive it as more correct sound, really enjoying it! Also, if you don't like the result, it's even easier to undo it.


----------



## chinmie

Makahl said:


> Today I was tip-rolling and I've found out the ZS10 Pro and JVC Spiral Dots to be a bit shouty and like some people say "steely" compared to smaller bore tips, it's like high-peaks get a bit uncontrolled.
> However, I do really enjoy the increase in wideness aspect that JVC tips help to bring. For my luck, while reading the forum I spotted the james444's signature which has some cool mods and I came across with his* DUNU 2000J Blu-Tack mod*.
> 
> It's interesting, the design choice from DUNU for this model is similar to KZ in putting a BA in the nozzle which I do believe is the main reason to create an artificial-ish timbre at higher volumes since they can get a bit shouty without proper damping. This mod seems to fix this extra "steely" tonality to me and it is rather easy to do. Btw, james444 isn't joking when he says to pinch off the _smallest_ piece of Blu-Tack, my smallest piece of Blu-tack ended up being way too much.
> ...



if you want to use wide bores with the ZS10 Pro, try the Whirlwind tips


----------



## Makahl (Aug 28, 2019)

chinmie said:


> if you want to use wide bores with the ZS10 Pro, try the Whirlwind tips



Thanks for the suggestion! I did try it (Tennmak ones) but I got a better synergy with JVC ones (modded to hybrid in my case). I'd guess the Tennmak has a softer material and the seal somewhere leaks a bit causing a slightly bass roll-off because it sounds leaner compared to JVC and that makes it "less" fun to me.


----------



## chinmie

Makahl said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! I did try it (Tennmak ones) but I got a better synergy with JVC ones (modded to hybrid in my case). I'd guess the Tennmak has a softer material and the seal somewhere leaks a bit causing a slightly bass roll-off because it sounds leaner compared to JVC and that makes it "less" fun to me.



try to "fillet" them (removing the inner ribs with small scissors). i also feel using it with the ribs intact would sound too airy, decrease bass and introduce a crinkly sound similar to driver flex.


----------



## courierdriver

ShakeThoseCans said:


> This is very interesting to me, as I am thinking of purchasing my first mobile AMP / DAC equipment. I don't need wireless capability, though, and am using an 'obsolete' iPod Touch Gen 4 at the moment.
> 
> The ES100 sounds highly-rated. But it may be overly complex for my needs. Is there something you would recommend (particularly on Amazon.ca) as a basic wired DAC/AMP for iPod / iPad?


If you had asked me a year ago, I would've recd the Fiio Q1MK2. But now, I see that it's using an AK4452-3 dac, which imho, is a downgrade to the 4490 that they were previously using. They aren't even using 2 per channel, in a true balanced fashion. Best bet right now, is the Radstone Earsonics ES100, or the new E1DA dac/amp dongle. The E1DA is possibly the best sounding dac/amp dongle on the market right now, but it's power hungry and needs a USB splitter cable (which is currently shipping with it) and also a USB power bank to power it and your smartphone. It will make for a bigger stack, and you will have to take into consideration that the power bank you choose will need alot more time to recharge...even if it has a fast Quick Charge feature. Usually around 7-10 hours. E1DA is probably the best sounding choice, but it will require a big battery/power source to make it work. Other than that, I'd say maybe a Fiio Q5 or Q5S dac/amp. Around $350 US, so still not inexpensive.


----------



## vegetaleb

1clearhead said:


> I find the PRO's just fine with little to no bleeding at all boasting a very strong and stable sound signature. They have better control throughout the whole sound range and spectrum when compared to the ZS5. I find them more pristine and mature sounding as well. Don't get me wrong, I still like the slight laid-back signature of the ZS5, but the PRO's just takes every song to another level with livelier details and musicality., IMHO.



Kz Zsn pro ordered 
They will be my Fall/Winter iem


----------



## nxnje

I have liked ZSN Pro so far, but as soon as I received the ZS10 Pro some days later I felt that they really deserved being one of my fav IEMs.
They're really superior in terms of overall signature and performance.

On the other hand, I do not use them anymore now, but that's just because there are IEMs which are more "easy-going" for everyday use.


----------



## baskingshark

vegetaleb said:


> Kz Zsn pro ordered
> They will be my Fall/Winter iem



Haha many of us have said the same thing and ended up having a whole collection of pokemon KZs within a few months.
11/11 is coming you know =)


----------



## igorneumann

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Yes, graphs are at different scale ... and that's all. Frequency response looks totaly same.



Blue, CCA C12, green Terminator... but according to that the CCA has nothing over 10k:


----------



## igorneumann

Incel said:


> Yes I only use MH750 now.
> 
> 
> Yes I tried in other cables and other sides and it was permanently damaged. It is still decent sounding but it's too low in volume I think an amplifier was destroyed or something. It's such a shame, they weren't the best fitting, kinda heavy and the smooth nozzle sucked but it was a nice sounding IEM. Same with ZS3. Probably a fuse or something but the MH755 sound better anyway and it's easier to use them.



Thats not what I meant...

But, when one side was broken, to try the adapter in the OTHER SIDE instead of OTHER IEM... that way you would kave 1 IEM with 2 sides broklen instead of 2 IEMS qith 1 side broken each.


----------



## voicemaster

igorneumann said:


> Blue, CCA C12, green Terminator... but according to that the CCA has nothing over 10k:



If we only look at the graph, the terminator will be a smooth in the treble as there is a dip in the 8k region which can be "shouty" on certain songs.


----------



## Venos

Could anyone give me some input on the actual power requirement for properly running the ZS7? I've read everything from them being fine from a standard, non-rooted smartphone setup, to them absolutely requiring and amp, etc. 

The ZS7 sound signature seems perfect for my needs, but I primarily use my IEMs with a bone stock smartphone or media entertainment tablets (like the ones installed in the seats) in airplanes now. I previously had the ZSN Pro, but it didn't have the amount of sub bass I was looking for, so I gave them to my wife. I'm also up for suggestions on alternatives.


----------



## nxnje

Venos said:


> Could anyone give me some input on the actual power requirement for properly running the ZS7? I've read everything from them being fine from a standard, non-rooted smartphone setup, to them absolutely requiring and amp, etc.
> 
> The ZS7 sound signature seems perfect for my needs, but I primarily use my IEMs with a bone stock smartphone or media entertainment tablets (like the ones installed in the seats) in airplanes now. I previously had the ZSN Pro, but it didn't have the amount of sub bass I was looking for, so I gave them to my wife. I'm also up for suggestions on alternatives.



They do not actually need an amp imho.
They're sensitivy is not so low so you could just use them without it.
Plus, I can say i use them without an amp and with amp as well, and differences are not deal breaking if you wanna use them with your smartphone.
One thing is sure: they sound well if the source is decent. Don't plug them in an old bad mp3 player or an old smartphone or laptop, or you'll find them a bit on the muffled side.
Then everyone's hearing is different, but this is my 2$ and hope it can help.


----------



## Slater (Aug 29, 2019)

nxnje said:


> They do not actually need an amp imho.
> They're sensitivy is not so low so you could just use them without it.
> Plus, I can say i use them without an amp and with amp as well, and differences are not deal breaking if you wanna use them with your smartphone.
> One thing is sure: they sound well if the source is decent. Don't plug them in an old bad mp3 player or an old smartphone or laptop, or you'll find them a bit on the muffled side.
> Then everyone's hearing is different, but this is my 2$ and hope it can help.



Agreed. Ignoring non-amped and non-DAP sources, I've used then with my stock iPhone SE, iPod Nano 6G, Sandisk Clip+, TRN BT20, and Xiaomi Bluetooth receiver. It sounds good with all that I've tried it on so far.

I don't know enough about the airplane source though. Traditionally, the airplane hookups were not much better sound quality than you'd get from 2 cups and string. But perhaps that is the old obsolete airplane hookups. I haven't flown in 10+ years, so I have no clue what it's like nowadays.


----------



## Venos

Great info guys. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much.


----------



## Crandall

nxnje said:


> They do not actually need an amp imho.
> They're sensitivy is not so low so you could just use them without it.
> Plus, I can say i use them without an amp and with amp as well, and differences are not deal breaking if you wanna use them with your smartphone.
> One thing is sure: they sound well if the source is decent. Don't plug them in an old bad mp3 player or an old smartphone or laptop, or you'll find them a bit on the muffled side.
> Then everyone's hearing is different, but this is my 2$ and hope it can help.


Personally, I've had issues with noticeable background hiss from the ZS7 on every source except my wife's moto G7 phone and my ES100. The G7 has a really great headphone amp for sensitive IEMS for the price. I think the hiss in this case might be tied to output impedance.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

nxnje said:


> I have liked ZSN Pro so far, but as soon as I received the ZS10 Pro some days later I felt that they really deserved being one of my fav IEMs.
> They're really superior in terms of overall signature and performance.
> 
> On the other hand, I do not use them anymore now, but that's just because there are IEMs which are more "easy-going" for everyday use.



I'm glad that you found IEMs to use on a permanent basis. What IEMs are you finding 'easy-going' for everyday use?


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Hey, so I've got new KZ7, and it's an interesting IEM.

But my main problem is I'm finding some of the peaks and highs to be too much. It's also pretty boomy. Can anyone tell me the absolute best tips to use to tame the KZ7's peaks? It's my number one priority with these IEMs.

Am I talking foam here, or spinfits, or something else?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Hey, so I've got new KZ7, and it's an interesting IEM.
> 
> But my main problem is I'm finding some of the peaks and highs to be too much. It's also pretty boomy. Can anyone tell me the absolute best tips to use to tame the KZ7's peaks? It's my number one priority with these IEMs.
> 
> Am I talking foam here, or spinfits, or something else?


Best tip I can give is to use EQ or just move them off to someone else and use a different Iem.


----------



## lgcubana

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Hey, so I've got new KZ7, and it's an interesting IEM.
> 
> But my main problem is I'm finding some of the peaks and highs to be too much. It's also pretty boomy. Can anyone tell me the absolute best tips to use to tame the KZ7's peaks? It's my number one priority with these IEMs.
> 
> Am I talking foam here, or spinfits, or something else?


The best tip is: save up for a Radson ES100
This will help alleviate some mid-bass bleed ("boomy") and the peaks


Foam tips will help the peaks, to some degree; but they can't at the same time reduce boominess.


----------



## nxnje

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I'm glad that you found IEMs to use on a permanent basis. What IEMs are you finding 'easy-going' for everyday use?


Hello!
My easy-going choices are:
- KZ EDR1
- KBEAR KB06
- JBL T110 (but they're not as good as others, timbre is good anyway)
- CCA C10
- 2 products from 2 banned brands which i cannot mention


----------



## rayliam80

Venos said:


> Could anyone give me some input on the actual power requirement for properly running the ZS7? I've read everything from them being fine from a standard, non-rooted smartphone setup, to them absolutely requiring and amp, etc.
> 
> The ZS7 sound signature seems perfect for my needs, but I primarily use my IEMs with a bone stock smartphone or media entertainment tablets (like the ones installed in the seats) in airplanes now. I previously had the ZSN Pro, but it didn't have the amount of sub bass I was looking for, so I gave them to my wife. I'm also up for suggestions on alternatives.



I haven't had any problems using my ZS10 Pro with in-flight entertainment during long haul flights on EVA Air, Lufthansa, Air Canada and United. I have not tried using the ZS7 during flights but I suspect it would do fairly well. I find it to be sensitive enough for most sources but they do sound better when properly amp'd.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

It's been a slice but I am no longer following this thread (for now). Thanks for all the good moments and sharing your thoughts on KZ!


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> It's been a slice but I am no longer following this thread (for now). Thanks for all the good moments and sharing your thoughts on KZ!



See you in a month!!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Aug 30, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> See you in a month!!


After listening to the Semkarch CNT-1, KZ has nothing to brag about. They need to step up their game.

With that being said, my iem creation game is much worse. 

KZ: That's right, Sir. You suck at making an iem. You're even worse then us.

PS: Just my current opinion. It's going to change in a month.


----------



## igorneumann

voicemaster said:


> If we only look at the graph, the terminator will be a smooth in the treble as there is a dip in the 8k region which can be "shouty" on certain songs.



I dont think those graphs are real...


----------



## Assimilator702

voicemaster said:


> See you in a month!!


Mmmmm. More like 10 days.


----------



## mbwilson111

Assimilator702 said:


> Mmmmm. More like 10 days.



or ten hours...


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> or ten hours...


----------



## KimChee

I've taken the ZS7 on a plane and it did really well, good isolation and the extra bass helped keep out the airplane noise.  I think the CA4 would be a good travel IEM-it's got a good amount of bass and if something happened to it it wouldn't be a huge loss...



rayliam80 said:


> I haven't had any problems using my ZS10 Pro with in-flight entertainment during long haul flights on EVA Air, Lufthansa, Air Canada and United. I have not tried using the ZS7 during flights but I suspect it would do fairly well. I find it to be sensitive enough for most sources but they do sound better when properly amp'd.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

citral23 said:


> So far it's pretty good I think : V2 rev 3 for work, Einsear T2 as backup (ppl happen to talk to me often, which is incredibly annoying. So no over the ear as it's cumbersome). I'd loved to have a crescent but I pulled the trigger too late and 2 sellers accepted my offer but finally cancelled as it was sold out.
> 
> Only let down in my journey was **** (horrible) and somewhat the ZS10 pro which I think is overrated, but happy to have it for **** conditions to not risk another one, it's "ok, C-" in my book.



Also, I meant to ask, do you think it is worth buying a V2 rev 3 if you already have a V2 rev 1 and a CNT-1?

And is the **** really that horrible? I am looking for a transit IEM to test against the V80 / KZ7, and the **** are cheap right now.


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2019)

Wow, take a look at this new IEM:

https://audio46.com/products/advanced-wearable-audio-awa-101-dual-driver-iem



Look familiar? Dual dynamic drivers, same side vents, same little recessed flat spot at the bottom intended for a logo/model name, and it even has the internal wall that separates the 2 drivers for better frequency separation.


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Look familiar?



No.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> No.



I’ll give you 2 hints:


----------



## mbwilson111

oh but it was never that expensive was it?


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> oh but it was never that expensive was it?



Nope, it was in the ‘good ol days’, when KZs were $4, $7, $9, etc.

I remember when the 1st KZ hit $13-$14, and we all thought the world was gonna end! Now they’re hitting $40, $60, even $100+!


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Nope, it was in the ‘good ol days’, when KZs were $4, $7, $9, etc.



a tiny bit less than what they want now for this other thing... lol


----------



## PhonoPhi

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Also, I meant to ask, do you think it is worth buying a V2 rev 3 if you already have a V2 rev 1 and a CNT-1?
> 
> And is the **** really that horrible? I am looking for a transit IEM to test against the V80 / KZ7, and the **** are cheap right now.



**** are great fun to listen!
The stage is perceived as hugely spacious (spatially distorted for me, but I do enjoy listening to piano duets sounding three-dimensional); the timbre is off.
As long as you do not expect **** to be 100% realistic, it can be most fun IEM experience ever and for under $20, it is a winner for me in a "fun" category.


----------



## courierdriver (Aug 30, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Hey, so I've got new KZ7, and it's an interesting IEM.
> 
> But my main problem is I'm finding some of the peaks and highs to be too much. It's also pretty boomy. Can anyone tell me the absolute best tips to use to tame the KZ7's peaks? It's my number one priority with these IEMs.
> 
> Am I talking foam here, or spinfits, or something else?


If you're not scared to try foams, I would try the Newbee foam tips. I use em on all my iems, except for my TFZ NO.3 (Spinfit CP145  large on those...because I find this set kinda dark sounding and like a bit more upper mids and treble). For everything else I own, Newbee foams are the best for me. Very soft, spongy memory foam, that is smooth in the ear, unlike Comply or Dekoni, which I find very rough and uncomfortable. The Newbees are like a cross between a silicone and a foam, imo. Great comfort, clean up easy, and can be worn for hours. They also seem to tame any peaks in the highs, yet still allow all the details to come through.


----------



## genck

courierdriver said:


> If you're not scared to try foams, I would try the Newbee foam tips. I use em on all my iems, except for my TFZ NO.3 (Spinfit CP145  large on those...because I find this set kinda dark sounding and like a bit more upper mids and treble). For everything else I own, Newbee foams are the best for me. Very soft, spongy memory foam, that is smooth in the ear, unlike Comply or Dekoni, which I find very rough and uncomfortable. The Newbees are like a cross between a silicone and a foam, imo. Great comfort, clean up easy, and can be worn for hours. They also seem to tame any peaks in the highs, yet still allow all the details to come through.


I like the Newbee eartips as well, includes a carrying case too which is pretty nice for how cheap they are.


----------



## courierdriver

genck said:


> I like the Newbee eartips as well, includes a carrying case too which is pretty nice for how cheap they are.


Yeah, and the isolation is also a bonus. Wide bore too, with a silicone center. Sound wise, I've yet to find a silicone that works as well, is as comfortable and doesn't make my ear canals sweat. I never get any itchiness or sweaty ears with the Newbees. I just love those things, and as you mentioned, the price is pretty good too. A 6 pack in S,M, L is like half the price of a 3 pack of Complys. The Dekonis aren't even memory foam, wear out faster and are more uncomfortable to me, of them all.


----------



## KimChee

I was about to say Conply tips or Shure Olives...haven’t really used tips in a long time because of the customs, but Complys or Olives worked great on the TF10 before I made it a custom...


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> ES100 handles it no problemo. Zero hiss whatsoever. It sounds stellar with the ES100.
> 
> Best 2 purchases of 2019 (ES100 and T800). In fact, I’d say it’s my best 2 purchases of the last 5 years.
> 
> ...


Pulled the plug on the ES100. Ordered tonight on Amazon. With Prime shipping, it should be here on Wednesday. Really looking forward to freeing up my phone and hoping this will sound as great over bluetooth as many have been claiming. If it is, then I won't mind eating Kraft Dinner for the rest of the month. Lol!


----------



## courierdriver (Aug 31, 2019)

Been listening to the ZS10 PRO tonight. Amazon Music files, Spotify files and my SD card Flac/WMA files; through the balanced output on my Fiio Q1MK2. All I can say is: sound quality has progressed exponentially over the years, in the iem/personal audio arena. This crazy inexpensive iem set, it just killin it for me tonight. I luv the sound signature of the ZS10 PRO. It's just so much damn fun and engaging. It's not anything audiophile...just pure enjoyment. It makes me just want to listen to music. And THAT'S what it's all about. I honestly no longer care about such terms as "neutral, balanced, flat frequency response, Harmon target", etc. Lively and fun is my sound signature.


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> Been listening to the ZS10 PRO tonight. Amazon Music files, Spotify files and my SD card Flac/WMA files; through the balanced output on my Fiio Q1MK2. All I can say is: sound quality has progressed exponentially over the years, in the iem/personal audio arena. This crazy inexpensive iem set, it just killin it for me tonight. I luv the sound signature of the ZS10 PRO. It's just so much damn fun and engaging. It's not anything audiophile...just pure enjoyment. It makes me just want to listen to music. And THAT'S what it's all about. I honestly no longer care about such terms as "neutral, balanced, flat frequency response, Harmon target", etc. Lively and fun is my sound signature.


I feel the same about the ZS7, BLON BL-03 and now, the KBEAR KB06. All very entertaining IEMs.


----------



## SinisterDev

Im really curious to see what people have to say about the ZSX! Just realized today that they're available now!


----------



## serveth

courierdriver said:


> Been listening to the ZS10 PRO tonight. Amazon Music files, Spotify files and my SD card Flac/WMA files; through the balanced output on my Fiio Q1MK2. All I can say is: sound quality has progressed exponentially over the years, in the iem/personal audio arena. This crazy inexpensive iem set, it just killin it for me tonight. I luv the sound signature of the ZS10 PRO. It's just so much damn fun and engaging. It's not anything audiophile...just pure enjoyment. It makes me just want to listen to music. And THAT'S what it's all about. I honestly no longer care about such terms as "neutral, balanced, flat frequency response, Harmon target", etc. Lively and fun is my sound signature.


balanced cable makes any difference for ZS10 Pro with Q1MK2?


----------



## courierdriver

serveth said:


> balanced cable makes any difference for ZS10 Pro with Q1MK2?


Using the balanced out with a balanced cable makes a sonic difference with pretty much all the iems and full size over ear headphones I have with the Q1MK2, imo. More power from balanced out allows the transducers to be driven more effortlessly. It's not so much a loudness/volume level thing, as it is about having more control of the drivers. I find generally that there seems to be somewhat more quality to the bass, as well as a bit smoother, more detailed mids and treble presentation. Bit bigger soundstage and a quieter background (although I've never noticed any hiss with unbalanced output either, when volume on full with no music playing). Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, because many have their own opinion on whether balanced makes a difference or not, but to me it does. YMMV.


----------



## TechnoidFR

SinisterDev said:


> Im really curious to see what people have to say about the ZSX! Just realized today that they're available now!



I'll have C12 and zsx too I'm empressed to know why "Terminator"


----------



## serveth

courierdriver said:


> Using the balanced out with a balanced cable makes a sonic difference with pretty much all the iems and full size over ear headphones I have with the Q1MK2, imo. More power from balanced out allows the transducers to be driven more effortlessly. It's not so much a loudness/volume level thing, as it is about having more control of the drivers. I find generally that there seems to be somewhat more quality to the bass, as well as a bit smoother, more detailed mids and treble presentation. Bit bigger soundstage and a quieter background (although I've never noticed any hiss with unbalanced output either, when volume on full with no music playing). Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, because many have their own opinion on whether balanced makes a difference or not, but to me it does. YMMV.


I know what you mean, I used it with Apple dongle, BT receivers, Creative sound card, and Q1MK2, and yes it makes difference, not only sound quality but you feel the difference, more powerful.


----------



## KimChee

I’m curious about the C12 and ZSX, quick someone get one and review it lol.


----------



## Zerohour88

people complain about KZ only using Bellsing in their IEMs, meanwhile:

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/

JH and CFA


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 31, 2019)

Got my KZ AS12 yesterday.
After few hours the sound stabilized reasonably and I was enjoying them.

To me, they fit as an improved version of AS10 very well (not to replace my beloved AS10, their warm and grainy timbre ( the love from the first sound) but as a direction to improve - more extended high, more technically  capable bass with two bass BAs).

Then I felt really sad for KZ that it may be a hostage of their fun base that may  not approve the treble, while being into fun V-shapes, like ZS10 pro.
I really appreciate ZS10 pro (never heard such amazing sound of bass guitar recordings), but it is not my preferred signature.
I am currently happy in a sound space triangle of AS10, C16 and A10.
AS12 fits there nicely. Not as prominent highs as A10, while clearly more highs than AS10, less grainy with more capable but less overwhelming bass.
I did not feel (at least at the moment) that the resolution is much better than of A10, definitely less than of C16.

In a summary, I like AS12 a lot as a nice step in KZ tuning to my preferences (while understandably less appreciated).
Hopefully, KZ/CCA will not halt further developments in this direction.

and looking forward to C12 that I ordered few days ago 

P. S. Edited for typos


----------



## SinisterDev

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the new CCA C12 to the KZ ZSX? Ive been looking at both. I've been really happy with both CCA and KZ IEMs ive purchased, so im wondering how the two compare. I saw some ppl saying they were considering getting the C12 over the ZSX because they didn't like the ZSX faceplate, but idk. I don't mind the way either looks.
I found the ZSX for $39 on Aliexpress and im really tempted to check them out and see how they compare to the ZS10 Pro's sound. Cuz i really like those. I just would prefer to find out more info about both before I buy either. What I've read about the improvements on the ZSX sounds good on paper. But id really like to hear some impressions.


----------



## voicemaster

KimChee said:


> I’m curious about the C12 and ZSX, quick someone get one and review it lol.



Waiting for my zsx to arrive, hopefully soon. Meanwhile, I am enjoying my jvc fx1100 with trn bt20s combo.


----------



## Assimilator702 (Aug 31, 2019)

KimChee said:


> I’m curious about the C12 and ZSX, quick someone get one and review it lol.


I have both of them coming. My ZSX are in the states. The C12 are still sitting in China. So I’ll have at least a week with my ZSX by the time my C12 arrive.
I’ll give initial impressions hopefully within 24 hrs of having them in my hands.

The cage match between the ZSX, C12 and V90 will be interesting. The new Tool album is waiting to give them all a good workout.


----------



## lucasbrea

Assimilator702 said:


> I have bot( of them coming. My ZSX are in the states. The C12 are still sitting in China. So I’ll have at least a week with my ZSX by the time my C12 arrive.
> I’ll give initial impressions hopefully within 24 hrs of having them in my hands.
> 
> The cage match between the ZSX, C12 and V90 will be interesting. The new Tool album is waiting to give them all a good workout.


We are all ansiously waiting for your impressions


----------



## Zerohour88

bisonicr's early impression on the KZ ZSX:

https://twitter.com/bisonicr/status/1168002974641094659

"impression is quite different from ZS10 Pro. More vocal band main and wide sound field. The high range is beautiful and the low range is cool."

with how things have come to light about Bellsing directly stealing from Knowles, it'll be interesting to see how the new BA stacks up.


----------



## DynamicEars

Zerohour88 said:


> bisonicr's early impression on the KZ ZSX:
> 
> https://twitter.com/bisonicr/status/1168002974641094659
> 
> ...




Are they using new BA for ZSX? if yes there is a hope for better timbre


----------



## 1clearhead

Assimilator702 said:


> I have both of them coming. My ZSX are in the states. The C12 are still sitting in China. So I’ll have at least a week with my ZSX by the time my C12 arrive.
> I’ll give initial impressions hopefully within 24 hrs of having them in my hands.
> 
> The cage match between the ZSX, C12 and V90 will be interesting. The new Tool album is waiting to give them all a good workout.


OK, bets are on!

*Punisher* -VS- *Terminator *(...as mentioned by Slater)






It's either one will sound better than the other, or a "tie" with both sounding completely the same!
...Who knows?! 

-Clear


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> with how things have come to light about Bellsing directly stealing from Knowles, it'll be interesting to see how the new BA stacks up.





DynamicEars said:


> Are they using new BA for ZSX? if yes there is a hope for better timbre



Where are you guys seeing references to a “new BA”?


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Where are you guys seeing references to a “new BA”?



the DWEK BA, of course. Should be a copy of the DWFK mid-high driver from Knowles.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> the DWEK BA, of course. Should be a copy of the DWFK mid-high driver from Knowles.



Oh, I see. I was confused by your previous statement. KZ has been using Bellsing drivers for a while now. And Bellsing has been directly stealing Knowles technology for a while now. So I was confused because KZ using Bellsing didn’t sound like anything new (other than the lawsuit by Knowles, which is new).


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Where are you guys seeing references to a “new BA”?



Yeah i was asking if KZ using new BAs
But if the BA still the same with zs10 pro, perhaps just a slight improvement with additional 1 BA, more like sidegrade.


----------



## crabdog

So far it seems pretty nice but I've had very little time with them yet.


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> Yeah i was asking if KZ using new BAs
> But if the BA still the same with zs10 pro, perhaps just a slight improvement with additional 1 BA, more like sidegrade.



Yes, KZ is still using Bellsing BAs.

However, specific models they used are different:

ZS10 Pro: (2) 30095, (2) 50060
ZSX: (1) 30095, (4) 31785


----------



## pbui44

1clearhead said:


> OK, bets are on!
> 
> *Punisher* -VS- *Terminator *(...as mentioned by Slater)
> 
> ...


l

If in NYC, the Punisher.  If in LA, the Terminator.  Anywhere else, who knows?


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Oh, I see. I was confused by your previous statement. KZ has been using Bellsing drivers for a while now. And Bellsing has been directly stealing Knowles technology for a while now. So I was confused because KZ using Bellsing didn’t sound like anything new (other than the lawsuit by Knowles, which is new).



Well, yes, I didn't say "BA from a new company/supplier", hence "new BA". KZ regularly lists all the new BAs they use on their models, which is helpful when you want to see if new model will be a departure from the previous ones, timbre/tonality-wise.

Bisonicr also makes comparison on the BAs used in his reviews for KZ.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> Well, yes, I didn't say "BA from a new company/supplier", hence "new BA". KZ regularly lists all the new BAs they use on their models, which is helpful when you want to see if new model will be a departure from the previous ones, timbre/tonality-wise.
> 
> Bisonicr also makes comparison on the BAs used in his reviews for KZ.



Ah, I see what you meant


----------



## Makahl

Zerohour88 said:


> the DWEK BA, of course*. Should be a copy of the DWFK mid-high driver from Knowles.*



Kind of. That would be the copy from Bellsing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906335158.html

DWEK seems a bit different since it uses 2 outputs instead of 1 like DWFK. Prolly a KZ custom. 


>


----------



## Hanzilein

So I am in for a new IEM to supersede my SoundMagic E10. I am quite a fan of the sound signature of the E10, so the new IEM should have a similiar tuning/signature but with improved sound - means more bass and more highs than normal. So it just makes 'fun' it fun to listen.

Which models of KZ would qualify for that? I don't want very big IEMs, so they don't stick out of my ears very much.
ZST Pro, ZSN Pro, ZSR, ED16? 
Or should I take a look at the CCA C10 or the TFZ T2 Galaxy, although I can get SoundMagic E11D for that price. For even 20€ more I could get the Pioneer SE-CH9T(K). I wanted to stay around the 50€ range.


----------



## lgcubana

Hanzilein said:


> So I am in for a new IEM to supersede my SoundMagic E10. I am quite a fan of the sound signature of the E10, so the new IEM should have a similiar tuning/signature but with improved sound - means more bass and more highs than normal. So it just makes 'fun' it fun to listen.
> 
> Which models of KZ would qualify for that? I don't want very big IEMs, so they don't stick out of my ears very much.
> ZST Pro, ZSN Pro, ZSR, ED16?
> Or should I take a look at the CCA C10 or the TFZ T2 Galaxy, although I can get SoundMagic E11D for that price. For even 20€ more I could get the Pioneer SE-CH9T(K). I wanted to stay around the 50€ range.


KZ ZS7


----------



## Hanzilein

lgcubana said:


> KZ ZS7


I had this one on my list as well, but I cut it off because of the complete metal housing which looks rather big and not comfy at all.


----------



## Slater (Sep 1, 2019)

Hanzilein said:


> I had this one on my list as well, but I cut it off because of the complete metal housing which looks rather big and not comfy at all.



Looks can be deceiving. Case in point ToneKing NineTail.

Of course, everyone’s ears are different, but I have pretty average male ears, and ZS7 fits me just fine.


----------



## jant71

A new vid...



That and Bisonicr and seems so far so good. Upgrade to the ZS10 Pro it seems.


----------



## Makahl

jant71 said:


> A new vid...
> 
> 
> 
> That and Bisonicr and seems so far so good. Upgrade to the ZS10 Pro it seems.




1:50 "How does the front picture look? kkk"

Might not the best translation, lol.


----------



## voicemaster

Makahl said:


> 1:50 "How does the front picture look? kkk"
> 
> Might not the best translation, lol.



Well it is google translation lol


----------



## stephensynanta16

Guys, does KZ silver upgrade cable really worth it? or it does no difference? I'm using ZS10Pro currently.

Or do u guys had some cable recomendation?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

stephensynanta16 said:


> Guys, does KZ silver upgrade cable really worth it? or it does no difference? I'm using ZS10Pro currently.
> 
> Or do u guys had some cable recomendation?


 I think the kz 8 core silver plated cable actually ruins the sound. I even have 3 brand new ones sitting in a box. Why I bought them when I had others, no idea.

Try NiceHCK 8 core cables.


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think the kz 8 core silver plated cable actually ruins the sound. I even have 3 brand new ones sitting in a box. Why I bought them when I had others, no idea.
> 
> Try NiceHCK 8 core cables.



I use the NICEHCK 8 core with my ZS10 Pro too. But it sticks out a bit as the ZS10 Pro is meant to use a para C type cable.
It works perfectly fine, but some people may not like the asthetics and also there is a risk of the pins being damaged if accidentally hit due to the awkward sticking out.


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Am a fan of AS10 and ZS10 PRO only so far.
This is actually pretty nice. Good kick. detail. wide presentation


----------



## lgcubana (Sep 2, 2019)

Errant reply. wrong thread


----------



## CrazyDelta

Hi Guys,

I am currently listening to Tool's new album Fear Inoculum on the KZ KS4 and actually sound really good.
However I'm in the market for a potential little upgrade and was wondering if there is a specific model you would recommend for listening to Tool.

Thank you.


----------



## maxxevv

Newest Product from KZ .....  






Actually taken off a Facebook group, its an Indonesian listing not related to the KZ we know on some webpage apparently ....


----------



## xandermaus

Who makes the BAs in the KZ7?


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 2, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> Newest Product from KZ .....
> 
> 
> 
> Actually taken off a Facebook group, its an Indonesian listing not related to the KZ we know on some webpage apparently ....



Haha their logo looks the same as the usual KZ IEM logo.
Are u sure this is not another subsidiary of KZ? Now instead of weekly IEM releases, there will be weekly bag and tote releases too.

Or maybe they can release some mystery bag thingy that the aliexpress sellers like to do. With a real tote bag with KZ logo with a KZ pokemon IEM inside.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I cant wait for a Blue T10 Pro tote to keep all my KZ's in.


----------



## DynamicEars

Hawaiibadboy said:


> Am a fan of AS10 and ZS10 PRO only so far.
> This is actually pretty nice. Good kick. detail. wide presentation




Waiting for full review, especially about tonality / timbre. Are they still steely?


----------



## Coldheart29 (Sep 2, 2019)

And they're finally here:






Did a quick check with  Tool's fear inoculum, Jinjer's pisces and Lacuna Coil's layers of time, and i must say i'm already in love with the tuning of the ZSR, love how they retain trhe sparkle but leaving out all and any harshness/excessive brightness. They also seem really comfortable, but i'll have to try them on a long listening session ans see if the bulbous stem becomes tiring with silicone tips (got some foamies on the way, will see how those fare).

The ZSE arrived too, not too bad, but as axpected nowhere neare the ZST or ZSR sq wise. Still, a decent backup iem, although i might give mine to my sister, she needs a new pair of iems.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Waiting for full review, especially about tonality / timbre. Are they still steely?



I don't think with only 1 new BA addition will make their timbre any different than previous model. Unless they use wood as a body than maybe it will change the tonality/timbre.


----------



## Slater

xandermaus said:


> Who makes the BAs in the KZ7?



Bellsing.


----------



## Slater (Sep 2, 2019)

stephensynanta16 said:


> Guys, does KZ silver upgrade cable really worth it? or it does no difference? I'm using ZS10Pro currently.
> 
> Or do u guys had some cable recomendation?



To fit the ZS10 Pro properly, you’ll need something with the Paragraph C or QDC plug. Otherwise, the pins will stick up really high off the plug, which is not really recommended.

Your primary choices are:

- KZ gold and silver braided 8-core cable (Paragraph C)
- CCA red/white/blue SPC braided 8-core cable (Paragraph C)
- JC Ally black braided 8-core cable (QDC)
- HifiHear 16-core SPC braided cable (QDC)
- KB Ear SPC braided 8-core cable (QDC)

You’ll also have to determine if your source is single ended or balanced or not, to make sure you get the right source termination of the cable.

What type and model source are you using your ZS10 Pro with? A phone, or DAP, or what?


----------



## jant71

Just curious, any chance the Simgot EM connector fits over the Paragraph C post? Simgot post is about 2mm x 4mm.


----------



## Slater

jant71 said:


> Just curious, any chance the Simgot EM connector fits over the Paragraph C post? Simgot post is about 2mm x 4mm.



Is the Simgot EM the same as the Simgot EN?

My Simgot EN700 cable does fit onto the Paragraph C post, but it sits up on top of the socket.


----------



## Zerohour88

voicemaster said:


> I don't think with only 1 new BA addition will make their timbre any different than previous model. Unless they use wood as a body than maybe it will change the tonality/timbre.



oh, there's only 1 new BA in the ZSX?

I guess KZ lied about using 2 sets of the new DWEK dual-BA model


----------



## jant71

Slater said:


> Is the Simgot EM the same as the Simgot EN?
> 
> My Simgot EN700 cable does fit onto the Paragraph C post, but it sits up on top of the socket.



Don't think so. EM cable has shrouds. Like I said post is around a 2 x 4 mm...
Pic from Otto's review


----------



## Slater

jant71 said:


> Don't think so. EM cable has shrouds. Like I said post is around a 2 x 4 mm...
> Pic from Otto's review



I see now. Yeah, that looks totally different than the EN700 sockets.


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> oh, there's only 1 new BA in the ZSX?
> 
> I guess KZ lied about using 2 sets of the new DWEK dual-BA model



They didn’t lie. By “1 more BA”, he meant 5 BA drivers instead of 4 (5-4=1 driver difference).


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> They didn’t lie. By “1 more BA”, he meant 5 BA drivers instead of 4 (5-4=1 driver difference).



so ZSX is basically ZS10 Pro with 1 added BA and no new BAs used?

And here I thought they added 4 new mid-high DWEK BAs to replace the 2x50060 and 1x30095 BAs from ZS10 Pro


----------



## FastAndClean

Slater said:


> Bellsing.


oh yeah, they make the BAs for the Campfire Audio flagship too, good stuff


----------



## Zerohour88

FastAndClean said:


> oh yeah, they make the BAs for the Campfire Audio flagship too, good stuff



3BA1DD for Solaris costs usd$1500, KZ ZSX with 5BA1DD is usd$50, bargain of the century!


----------



## TechnoidFR

Zerohour88 said:


> 3BA1DD for Solaris costs usd$1500, KZ ZSX with 5BA1DD is usd$50, bargain of the century!



And what is the quality of campfire?


----------



## Slater (Sep 2, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> so ZSX is basically ZS10 Pro with 1 added BA and no new BAs used?
> 
> And here I thought they added 4 new mid-high DWEK BAs to replace the 2x50060 and 1x30095 BAs from ZS10 Pro



Friend, you still seemed to be confused. I will try to explain it better.

Clear your mind of all thoughts, and ignore the *specific models* of BAs for a minute.

@voicemaster said ZSX has “1 more BA addition”.

What he meant was if you physically ripped out the BA drivers, and set all of them on a table in front of you and counted them, the ZS10 Pro would have 4 BA drivers per side and the ZSX would have 5 BA drivers per side.

You with me so far? 4 drivers for ZS10 Pro and 5 drivers for ZSX. That’s why he said KZ added “1 more BA” for the ZSX. We’re not talking WHAT drivers here, just the NUMBER of drivers. Got it?

It was just an abstract, tongue in cheek comment.

Now, to your OTHER question about the specific MODEL of drivers.

The ZS10 Pro uses the following BA drivers per side: (2) Bellsing 30095 and (2) Bellsing 50060

The ZSX uses the following BA drivers per side: (1) Bellsing 30095 and (4) Bellsing DWEK

Bear in mind that Bellsing DWEK and (Knowles) DWFK are just a shortened version of the full model number, kind of like slang. Like calling the “Chevy Corvette” a “Vette”. I don’t know the full model number of the Bellsing DWEK yet.

I really hope that clears up your confusion.


----------



## voicemaster

Zerohour88 said:


> so ZSX is basically ZS10 Pro with 1 added BA and no new BAs used?
> 
> And here I thought they added 4 new mid-high DWEK BAs to replace the 2x50060 and 1x30095 BAs from ZS10 Pro



From my understanding is that the extra 1 BA is the new DWEK ba for mid frequency. I might be wrong tho. The zsx might also have different kind of ba and dd configuration than the zs10 pro. From the graph that HBB shown, it seems the zsx will be the zs6 on steroid.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Friend, you still seemed to be confused. I will try to explain it better.
> 
> Clear your mind of all thoughts, and ignore the *specific models* of BAs for a minute.
> 
> ...



Oh they use 4 dwek ba. They might sound different than zs10 pro. Can't wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## crabdog

DynamicEars said:


> Waiting for full review, especially about tonality / timbre. Are they still steely?


No, the steely upper frequencies are not present with this model. This is the most natural sounding KZ I've heard for some time, maybe the best KZ period.


----------



## DynamicEars

crabdog said:


> No, the steely upper frequencies are not present with this model. This is the most natural sounding KZ I've heard for some time, maybe the best KZ period.



Wow if tonality / timbre sounds natural or better then they hit the nail, zs10 pro was very very good in technicalities, no mid bass bleed, sub bass that digs low, very good details and separation. But for picky me, the steely sound really put me off. 

Guys let me know if tonality/timbre is good then i will give KZ one more last chance (ive said this every half a year)


----------



## DynamicEars

DynamicEars said:


> Waiting for full review, especially about tonality / timbre. Are they still steely?



My simple question stir a chaos again haha.. im sorry, i take responsibility  for miss understanding which I totally understand whats going on, just to clear up :

I was asking in respond to HBB video about ZSX, is ZSX still have steely sound like in ZS10 pro, ZSN pro, ZSN (mostly hybrid KZ previous model) because im picky about that timbre.



voicemaster said:


> I don't think with only 1 new BA addition will make their timbre any different than previous model. Unless they use wood as a body than maybe it will change the tonality/timbre.



@voicemaster respond with his logical opinion (which i have came across too actually), that only 1 new BA addition won't make big differences ( I assuming @voicemaster was thinking KZ still using same BA like ZS10 PRO only put in 1 additional BA in ZSX)




Zerohour88 said:


> oh, there's only 1 new BA in the ZSX?
> 
> I guess KZ lied about using 2 sets of the new DWEK dual-BA model



Then, @Zerohour88 was explaining (or argue) that the new BA isnt only 1, but KZ change the BA in ZSX, not using the same BA like in ZS10 Pro




Slater said:


> They didn’t lie. By “1 more BA”, he meant 5 BA drivers instead of 4 (5-4=1 driver difference).



@Slater was referring to @voicemaster post about just 1 more BA, just the driver count.




Zerohour88 said:


> so ZSX is basically ZS10 Pro with 1 added BA and no new BAs used?
> 
> And here I thought they added 4 new mid-high DWEK BAs to replace the 2x50060 and 1x30095 BAs from ZS10 Pro



here @Zerohour88  was thinking that @Slater didn't aware about KZ changing BA on ZSX, different by BA used in ZS10 Pro




Slater said:


> Friend, you still seemed to be confused. I will try to explain it better.
> 
> Clear your mind of all thoughts, and ignore the *specific models* of BAs for a minute.
> 
> ...






voicemaster said:


> From my understanding is that the extra 1 BA is the new DWEK ba for mid frequency. I might be wrong tho. The zsx might also have different kind of ba and dd configuration than the zs10 pro. From the graph that HBB shown, it seems the zsx will be the zs6 on steroid.





voicemaster said:


> Oh they use 4 dwek ba. They might sound different than zs10 pro. Can't wait for mine to arrive.



So in the end @voicemaster also realize that the differences between ZS10 Pro vs ZSX isn't merely about only 1 DWEK BA, but 4 different BA, which have possibility that tonality is different from ZS10 Pro. If everything was like @voicemaster wrong perception, which is they use exactly same driver as ZS10 PRO + 1 new DWEK BA, he doubts tonality will be much different.

Thanks for chip in. Just want to clear everything


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> My simple question stir a chaos again haha.. im sorry, i take responsibility  for miss understanding which I totally understand whats going on, just to clear up :
> 
> I was asking in respond to HBB video about ZSX, is ZSX still have steely sound like in ZS10 pro, ZSN pro, ZSN (mostly hybrid KZ previous model) because im picky about that timbre.
> 
> ...



Yeah I remembered it wrong. I thought they are using the same config of ba as the zs10 pro, but the zsx actually use only 1 of the same ba as zs10 pro and that might be a game changer for zsx. Now if they use the same dd as zs7....


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I think the kz 8 core silver plated cable actually ruins the sound. I even have 3 brand new ones sitting in a box. Why I bought them when I had others, no idea.
> 
> Try NiceHCK 8 core cables.


Yeah, I have a Nicehck SPC on my TFZ NO.3 now, and it's really upped the SQ alot. Bass sounds tighter with more definition...mids and highs are much clearer with better imaging and a deeper soundstage. Soundstage width still isn't out of your head like Moondrop KPE, but it's acceptable. The Nicehck cable has helped bring this iem from warm and dark sounding, to energetic and more lively. The No.3 still isn't my favorite, but it's becoming a more enjoyable listen lately for me. I'm thinking that on 11/11, I'll see if I can get a good deal on a nice silver cable from Electro acoustic store on Aliexpress. I'm hopeful that something like that will dial in the sound of the TFZ No.3 more to my liking. Till then, I'll use the Nicehck SPC cable and enjoy the No.3 for dance music and some Reggae music.


----------



## Makahl (Sep 3, 2019)

It seems similar but different, indeed.


FR graph from Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews. 
I have added a small transparent line to see how mids are elevated compared to the highest bass peak. 

Looking forward to seeing more comparasions.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Sep 3, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> And what is the quality of campfire?



my fav IEM is the Andro, FYI. If you are not aware of the current news, Solaris was found to contain Bellsing BAs in a court case initiated by Knowles



DynamicEars said:


> My simple question stir a chaos again haha.. im sorry, i take responsibility  for miss understanding which I totally understand whats going on, just to clear up :
> 
> I was asking in respond to HBB video about ZSX, is ZSX still have steely sound like in ZS10 pro, ZSN pro, ZSN (mostly hybrid KZ previous model) because im picky about that timbre.
> 
> ...



Nice summary, I didn't want to be too straight-to-the-point, since I'm already on probation.



crabdog said:


> No, the steely upper frequencies are not present with this model. This is the most natural sounding KZ I've heard for some time, maybe the best KZ period.



every model they've released have been improving, quite a roll there.

tuning-wise basing on the FR comparison above, I can understand why they didn't change much, if at all. Its already good enough, just needed better BAs to take it to the next level.

Now I'm thoroughly tempted. Still waiting for a showdown between ZSX, TRN V90 (cause I like that shape) and BQEYZ Spring1.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Zerohour88 said:


> my fav IEM is the Andro, FYI. If you are not aware of the current news, Solaris was found to contain Bellsing BAs in a court case initiated by Knowles
> 
> 
> 
> Justly, are they sounding more cheap?


----------



## Zerohour88

TechnoidFR said:


> Justly, are they sounding more cheap?



I should apologize, I guess my sarcasm didn't come across properly.

I was merely trying to be funny with my comment about Solaris since it was found to contain Bellsing BAs which are normally associated with cheap chi-fi IEMs. Chi-fi products usually proudly advertises that they use Knowles BA in their model.

I did not allude anything at all regarding their sound quality, FYI. You might want to re-read my comment.


----------



## voicemaster

Zerohour88 said:


> I should apologize, I guess my sarcasm didn't come across properly.
> 
> I was merely trying to be funny with my comment about Solaris since it was found to contain Bellsing BAs which are normally associated with cheap chi-fi IEMs. Chi-fi products usually proudly advertises that they use Knowles BA in their model.
> 
> I did not allude anything at all regarding their sound quality, FYI. You might want to re-read my comment.



Or it can also mean you pay a premium price for a cheap BA that can be found in cheap Chi-fi IEMs? So their profit margin is like 90%?


----------



## Zerohour88

voicemaster said:


> Or it can also mean you pay a premium price for a cheap BA that can be found in cheap Chi-fi IEMs? So their profit margin is like 90%?



Discussion about profit margin would not be good in an audio thread, since there are stuff like research and marketing to consider. I'd stop it there, tbh.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Zerohour88 said:


> I should apologize, I guess my sarcasm didn't come across properly.
> 
> I was merely trying to be funny with my comment about Solaris since it was found to contain Bellsing BAs which are normally associated with cheap chi-fi IEMs. Chi-fi products usually proudly advertises that they use Knowles BA in their model.
> 
> I did not allude anything at all regarding their sound quality, FYI. You might want to re-read my comment.



Sorry it's the morning with a bad mood. I saw for the bellsing polemit . But I think they have very good image globally.
I'm very serious for the question , but worse than that, how much will find that they sound cheap after this news


----------



## Zerohour88

TechnoidFR said:


> Sorry it's the morning with a bad mood. I saw for the bellsing polemit . But I think they have very good image globally.
> I'm very serious for the question , but worse than that, how much will find that they sound cheap after this news



I'm sorry, what? 

If you want to know how the court case will affect distribution of Solaris, I think its better to check on the Solaris thread since they were discussing it, last time I checked. There's a very good chance Knowles will win the case, so manufacturers will have to prepare for it.


----------



## voicemaster

Zerohour88 said:


> Discussion about profit margin would not be good in an audio thread, since there are stuff like research and marketing to consider. I'd stop it there, tbh.



Well what I meant is that you pay $1500 for an IEM that you expect to have the best drivers available on the market, but what you get is a budget type drivers that common on cheap chi-fi IEMs that like to boast if they are using that more expensive driver. I found it quite an irony really. 

Okay time to go back to discussing ZSX!!


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Well what I meant is that you pay $1500 for an IEM that you expect to have the best drivers available on the market, but what you get is a budget type drivers that common on cheap chi-fi IEMs that like to boast if they are using that more expensive driver. I found it quite an irony really.
> 
> Okay time to go back to discussing ZSX!!



waiting for your impressions as you're one of early adopter here, i believe tuning is already good since ZS10 pro also that good,
Im more concern on timbre, hopefully sounds natural not steely metallic and that 12khz peak (based on graph) is tiring for treble sensitive people (i'm not so sensitive but prefer not so hot trebles, any peak on 16khz and above are safe just to give air perception, aka larger soundstage)
and any other minor (or major is a plus) improvement that they made this time


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> waiting for your impressions as you're one of early adopter here, i believe tuning is already good since ZS10 pro also that good,
> Im more concern on timbre, hopefully sounds natural not steely metallic and that 12khz peak (based on graph) is tiring for treble sensitive people (i'm not so sensitive but prefer not so hot trebles, any peak on 16khz and above are safe just to give air perception, aka larger soundstage)
> and any other minor (or major is a plus) improvement that they made this time



I will compare it to my JVC FX1100 for timbre and tonality.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> I will compare it to my JVC FX1100 for timbre and tonality.



well, not expecting to be compared with your FX1100 buddy, are you kidding? hahaha just a good quite natural timbre / tonality for budget-midfi class will be more than enough for under $50iem, just because i feel too pity, such a great iem like ZS10 Pro which are very good on almost every aspect missing that natural timbre.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Zerohour88 said:


> Now I'm thoroughly tempted. Still waiting for a showdown between ZSX, TRN V90 (cause I like that shape) and BQEYZ Spring1.


I'm looking forward to the showdown as well! Yay!!!


----------



## stephensynanta16

Slater said:


> To fit the ZS10 Pro properly, you’ll need something with the Paragraph C or QDC plug. Otherwise, the pins will stick up really high off the plug, which is not really recommended.
> 
> Your primary choices are:
> 
> ...


Uhh, i'm currently plugging the ZS10 pro into Fiio Q5, it has both single ended and balanced. Does it really worth to plug zs10 pro into balanced? since most of the balanced cable priced the same as zs10 pro.


----------



## Slater

stephensynanta16 said:


> Uhh, i'm currently plugging the ZS10 pro into Fiio Q5, it has both single ended and balanced. Does it really worth to plug zs10 pro into balanced? since most of the balanced cable priced the same as zs10 pro.



That’s up to you.

Some people swear there is a difference with balanced. Others say it sounds the same, and the difference is really just due to slightly higher volume which fools you into thinking it’s better.

I say go with whatever you’re most comfortable with, or what your budget dictates. As you mentioned, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to spend as much or more on the cable as the whole IEM cost.


----------



## tiamor988

stephensynanta16 said:


> Uhh, i'm currently plugging the ZS10 pro into Fiio Q5, it has both single ended and balanced. Does it really worth to plug zs10 pro into balanced? since most of the balanced cable priced the same as zs10 pro.


There are cheap balanced cable. You could try TRN T2.


----------



## hiflofi

TechnoidFR said:


> And what is the quality of campfire?


Some people don't necessarily love the Solaris; that's a well-documented matter.
Besides the point though because sound quality does not directly relate to price (for the vast majority of people), as research has shown.


----------



## stephensynanta16 (Sep 3, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> And what is the quality of campfire?


For the great sum of money u spend on their product, you'll get a really nice build quality, great audio quality(IMO) and astounding customer service.

(they recalled the a specific batch of IO because one of my friend got slightly wobbly mmcx connector on 2 pair of IO. Im not kidding, Mr. Ken personally messaged him, offer an apology, and sent him a replacement unit of IO. I got curious and ask several headphone shop on my city whether the recall was true, to my surprise, they really recalled the IO within specific serial number)

It's the first time i saw those kind of customer service from an audio manufacturer.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

PhonoPhi said:


> **** are great fun to listen!
> The stage is perceived as hugely spacious (spatially distorted for me, but I do enjoy listening to piano duets sounding three-dimensional); the timbre is off.
> As long as you do not expect **** to be 100% realistic, it can be most fun IEM experience ever and for under $20, it is a winner for me in a "fun" category.



Darn. I should have maybe picked one up for $16 during the sale. It's $17 now, but I'm willing to wait until 11.11

I'm told the **** doesn't isolate well, so it can't become a transit IEM (which is a priority for me), but I guess I'm always up for a decent or interesting listening experience for my home DAC.


----------



## Slater

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Darn. I should have maybe picked one up for $16 during the sale. It's $17 now, but I'm willing to wait until 11.11.



You’re going to wait 2 months to possibly save $1?


----------



## lgcubana

Slater said:


> You’re going to wait 2 months to possibly save $1?


It's Canada. @ShakeThoseCans  could put that dollar towards some OG Kush, to complete the music experience.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Sep 3, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I have a Nicehck SPC on my TFZ NO.3 now, and it's really upped the SQ alot. Bass sounds tighter with more definition...mids and highs are much clearer with better imaging and a deeper soundstage. Soundstage width still isn't out of your head like Moondrop KPE, but it's acceptable. The Nicehck cable has helped bring this iem from warm and dark sounding, to energetic and more lively. The No.3 still isn't my favorite, but it's becoming a more enjoyable listen lately for me. I'm thinking that on 11/11, I'll see if I can get a good deal on a nice silver cable from Electro acoustic store on Aliexpress. I'm hopeful that something like that will dial in the sound of the TFZ No.3 more to my liking. Till then, I'll use the Nicehck SPC cable and enjoy the No.3 for dance music and some Reggae music.


Does your cable fit perfectly or does it stick up a bit?


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Slater said:


> You’re going to wait 2 months to possibly save $1?




It's a matter of principle! 

Seriously though, Chi-Fi is supposed to be about bang for the buck. I want to maximize it.

Also, the **** is superfluous to my needs, so I'm willing to wait.


----------



## Slater

ShakeThoseCans said:


> It's a matter of principle!
> 
> Seriously though, Chi-Fi is supposed to be about bang for the buck. I want to maximize it.
> 
> Also, the **** is superfluous to my needs, so I'm willing to wait.



As a fellow tight wad, I can respect that.


----------



## voicemaster

stephensynanta16 said:


> For the great sum of money u spend on their product, you'll get a really nice build quality, great audio quality(IMO) and astounding customer service.
> 
> (they recalled the a specific batch of IO because one of my friend got slightly wobbly mmcx connector on 2 pair of IO. Im not kidding, Mr. Ken personally messaged him, offer an apology, and sent him a replacement unit of IO. I got curious and ask several headphone shop on my city whether the recall was true, to my surprise, they really recalled the IO within specific serial number)
> 
> It's the first time i saw those kind of customer service from an audio manufacturer.



Yea, but with say $1500, I can buy 300 KZ ZSX or ZS10 pro and be done with my life LOL.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Yea, but with say $1500, I can buy 300 KZ ZSX or ZS10 pro and be done with my life LOL.



and if you are careful enough one of them can last years, so you might ended up only needing 10 of them and save hundreds of bucks


----------



## jant71

Yeah, you only need 10 or 12 ZXS' but 50 or so cables


----------



## steviewonderbread

voicemaster said:


> Yea, but with say $1500, I can buy 300 KZ ZSX or ZS10 pro and be done with my life LOL.



$5 KZ ZS10 Pros!? I need a link!


----------



## voicemaster

steviewonderbread said:


> $5 KZ ZS10 Pros!? I need a link!



In the year of 2050.


----------



## pbui44 (Sep 3, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> In the year of 2050.



Or at a government search-and-seizure auction.

For instance, a $5 KZ ZS10 Pro can possibly be found in this nice 2008 turtle-top cargo truck, which can be converted into something nicer than a campulance:

https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucdsclnk?sl=4TQSCI19401001


----------



## courierdriver

RikudouGoku said:


> Does your cable fit perfectly or does it stick up a bit?


Yup, it does stick up a bit, but the pins connectors sit easily on top of the raised connectors on the iem. Look, at the moment, there aren't any aftermarket cables that will perfectly fit. Just get a good quality 2pin cable, preferably something with a silver coating or a pure silver cable ( warning...pure silver cable can get expensive, and cost as much or more than the No.3 itself). And for gosh sakes...let these things burn in with multiple hours of music! They really need it.


----------



## courierdriver

courierdriver said:


> Pulled the plug on the ES100. Ordered tonight on Amazon. With Prime shipping, it should be here on Wednesday. Really looking forward to freeing up my phone and hoping this will sound as great over bluetooth as many have been claiming. If it is, then I won't mind eating Kraft Dinner for the rest of the month. Lol!


Got the ES100 today. Sadly, it had a problem with the 2.5mm balanced out jack, which is one of the main reasons I bought it. It's getting sent back to Amazon tomorrow. I'll get a full refund, but I'm still sad because I was really looking at this device as an alternative to buying a DAP. Bummer. Now, to get what I want, I'm back to looking at saving up for a DAP. Sigh...nothing in my life is ever easy. Lol!


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Yea, but with say $1500, I can buy 300 KZ ZSX or ZS10 pro and be done with my life LOL.



of course your life will be done, your wife will kill you for buying 300 same earphones


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


> It's Canada. @ShakeThoseCans  could put that dollar towards some OG Kush, to complete the music experience.


Mmm...takes more than $1 for good Kush, even here in Canada. But I get yer point! Lol! Got some waiting to take a spin...but for tonight, it's White Widow.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> of course your life will be done, your wife will kill you for buying 300 same earphones



So true...


----------



## Makahl

courierdriver said:


> Got the ES100 today. Sadly, it had a problem with the 2.5mm balanced out jack, which is one of the main reasons I bought it. It's getting sent back to Amazon tomorrow. I'll get a full refund, but I'm still sad because I was really looking at this device as an alternative to buying a DAP. Bummer. Now, to get what I want, I'm back to looking at saving up for a DAP. Sigh...nothing in my life is ever easy. Lol!



Oh, unlucky. But... wouldn't be easier to ask for a replacement?


----------



## MrMajony

Zsx hype train is coming, save this commentary


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Got the ES100 today. Sadly, it had a problem with the 2.5mm balanced out jack, which is one of the main reasons I bought it. It's getting sent back to Amazon tomorrow. I'll get a full refund, but I'm still sad because I was really looking at this device as an alternative to buying a DAP. Bummer. Now, to get what I want, I'm back to looking at saving up for a DAP. Sigh...nothing in my life is ever easy. Lol!



What’s the problem with the 2.5mm jack?

Why not just exchange it for another ES100?


----------



## Mybutthurts

Just in case anyone thinks of using this website. Communication from KZ on twitter.


https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1169141581607297024?s=19


----------



## Hanzilein (Sep 4, 2019)

Mybutthurts said:


> Just in case anyone thinks of using this website. Communication from KZ on twitter.
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/KEarphones/status/1169141581607297024?s=19


Well, first time I bought from a 'scam' website  -.- I should have known, because the Paypal address the money went to was a bit off. Let's see what happens^^


----------



## mbwilson111

Hanzilein said:


> Well, first time I bought from a 'scam' website  -.- I should have known, because the Paypal address was a bit off. Let's see what happens^^



In what way is it an actual scam?   Maybe you should change your Paypal password just to be safe.


----------



## Hanzilein

mbwilson111 said:


> In what way is it an actual scam?   Maybe you should change your Paypal password just to be safe.


It is safe, the website is forwards you to the official paypal. 
I meant the address from KZ in paypal where the money went to.


----------



## mbwilson111

Hanzilein said:


> It is safe, the website is forwards you to the official paypal.
> I meant the address from KZ in paypal where the money went to.



You will probably get what you ordered.  Just seems that KZ does not want people to buy from that site... but how did the site get the products?


----------



## DynamicEars (Sep 4, 2019)

wow that scam site is neat! looks very convincing from the design and everything. Even the pricing also similar with aliexpress

edit : sorry for having own conclusion that it was scam site, maybe they are selling real iems but just not authorized by KZ


----------



## mbwilson111

DynamicEars said:


> wow that scam site is neat! looks very convincing from the design and everything. Even the pricing also similar with aliexpress



Is it actually a scam site?  Or, is it just that it was not authorized by KZ.


----------



## DynamicEars

mbwilson111 said:


> Is it actually a scam site?  Or, is it just that it was not authorized by KZ.



wow yeah not sure why my brain was thinking directly that it is a scam site, perhaps too many web traps recently. Sorry bout that, yeah maybe they just unauthorized site but still selling legit iems.


----------



## rayliam80

maxxevv said:


> Newest Product from KZ .....
> 
> 
> 
> Actually taken off a Facebook group, its an Indonesian listing not related to the KZ we know on some webpage apparently ....



As funny as this is, I would probably buy a KZ logo t-shirt....or make one on online...hmm...


----------



## gearofwar

Does anyone here have the sync problem with kz-t1? It seems that i can't get them to sync together at the same time now but being detected as separate L & R.  "KZ-T1 & KZ-T1-R" , If both being connected, music will be played only on 1 side. This looks to me like a bug


----------



## emeraldstone (Sep 4, 2019)

First time posting appologies if this is not allowed. If you follow NiceHCK store (button is located beside the Aliexpress logo), you get a discount for the KZ ZSX it will be ~39-40 USD: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104902245.html


----------



## Mouseman

gearofwar said:


> Does anyone here have the sync problem with kz-t1? It seems that i can't get them to sync together at the same time now but being detected as separate L & R.  "KZ-T1 & KZ-T1-R" , If both being connected, music will be played only on 1 side. This looks to me like a bug


You have to reset them - remove the pairing from your phone, then reset the buds.


----------



## Slater

gearofwar said:


> Does anyone here have the sync problem with kz-t1? It seems that i can't get them to sync together at the same time now but being detected as separate L & R.  "KZ-T1 & KZ-T1-R" , If both being connected, music will be played only on 1 side. This looks to me like a bug



There’s a lot of T1 users that hang out in this thread here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wireless-iems-are-we-there-yet.901427/

If you don’t get an answer in this thread, I’d ask over there as I’m sure someone will know the answer


----------



## gearofwar (Sep 4, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> You have to reset them - remove the pairing from your phone, then reset the buds.


How do i do that? i have tried to remove the pairing setting from my phone already then turned them off. But they will be still displayed on bluetooth device scan separately as L and R piece


----------



## Aerdowaith

Anyone here fluid in Spanish and interested in giving us a summery of this review?


----------



## jant71 (Sep 4, 2019)

There is a scoring chart in the video so you can get an idea....




You can tell what everything is. Seems to beat the 10 Pro again and again the stage seems large got a 95 and 100 for control of sibilance. Still thinks the T3 beats it in a few areas.


----------



## Aerdowaith (Sep 4, 2019)

jant71 said:


> There is a scoring chart in the video so you can get an idea....
> 
> You can tell what everything is. Seems to beat the 10 Pro again and again the stage seems large got a 95 and 100 for control of sibilance. Still thinks the T3 beats it in a few areas.



Interesting! If it is beating or exceeding the T3 that seems to be rater impressive value considering their relative prices! Though since he seems to be benching everything against a pair of overheads which he scores near perfectly across the board, I must say I face his ranking with some degree of skepticism... Especially when he rates the 660s lower for sound stage and higher for base... than any of the in ears. Haven't heard the 660s myself so maybe my assumptions are off?

*Edit* - Regardless, I guess if they beat the 10 pro which is generally well considered, they will meet my needs handily.


----------



## Miyanovic

Aerdowaith said:


> Anyone here fluid in Spanish and interested in giving us a summery of this review?




Basically, he says that zsx are the best Kz by far. The soundstage is excellent and they are very deep and wide, the sound gives the feeling of being distant. The treble are not as high as the zs pro, but without losing details. They are the KZ closest to a neutral sound. Anyway, he is not a big fan of KZ, but the zsx are one of the best iem he has ever heard.


----------



## Aerdowaith

Miyanovic said:


> Basically, he says that zsx are the best Kz by far. The soundstage is excellent and they are very deep and wide, the sound gives the feeling of being distant. The treble are not as high as the zs pro, but without losing details. They are the KZ closest to a neutral sound. Anyway, he is not a big fan of KZ, but the zsx are one of the best iem he has ever heard.



Awesome man, thanks for the summery! Sounds really promising so far.


----------



## courierdriver

Makahl said:


> Oh, unlucky. But... wouldn't be easier to ask for a replacement?


I would have, but on Amazon.ca here in Canada, it wasn't an option. Return only with money refunded. I could reorder it but how do I know it won't just be a refurbished unit, or I could even be getting back the same unit I sent back?!


Slater said:


> What’s the problem with the 2.5mm jack?
> 
> Why not just exchange it for another ES100?


Problem with 2.5mm jack was it was cutting in and out, and sound was always distorted. Turning the plug on the cable while it was plugged in produced no improvement. I'm guessing the output jack was faulty...maybe not soldered properly. Either way, it didn't work properly and I'm not keeping a unit that cost me $129 if it has faults. On Amazon, I would have liked to have seen a replace option, but the only one was to ship it back and get a refund. Oh well, at least I'm getting my money back. I can always reorder it when my refund is credited.


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Sep 4, 2019)

Usually amazon products are not even opened and instead are thrown into a giant pile of returns that sit for months and months before being processed. I know some kid like scammed Amazon out of few hundred thousand dollars recently because this is there return policy. You could buy lets say a $2000 Guitar Amp. Receive the amp and weigh it. Then open the box and take out the amp. Carefully repackage everything up with wood and bricks that weigh the exact same. Send back to Amazon who issues a refund after the package is received back at that warehouse. Sell Amp on CL, rinse, repeat.

I think its the main reason Amazon is cracking down on chronic returners and banning accounts for too many returns.

Ok, here is the link. Dude used dirt, LOL and then started a company to sell the open box items. Amazing! https://www.newser.com/story/278686/man-scams-amazon-with-dirty-boxes-report.html


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Problem with 2.5mm jack was it was cutting in and out, and sound was always distorted. Turning the plug on the cable while it was plugged in produced no improvement. I'm guessing the output jack was faulty...maybe not soldered properly.



Something similar happened to my ES100. The very 1st time I plugged in a 2.5mm cable. The plug would only pushed in 90% and then physically stop (or so I thought). I thought something was defective or bad, and I just happened to end up pushing with a little bit more force. It turned out that there must have been something 'stiff' from the original production. It must have worked loose whatever was stiff, and the 2.5mm plug all the sudden snapped in 100% of the way. After that point, the sound and jack worked flawlessly, and I have had zero issues since.


----------



## redrol (Sep 4, 2019)

I just got the ZSX a couple hours ago.  First impressions, very nice.  Great bass, if not a bit overdone.  Mids are decent, slightly dipped.  Treble is slightly extended but very mellow.   I think the best KZ for sure.  Soundstage is not great, somewhere between my eyes.  Everything else is pretty good.   Really nice extended bass, but not terribly tight.    I think the Sony MH755 have better soundstage but the KZ prolly wins in all other areas.  I dunno if I can think of a better $50 bux iem.

[edit] NOT wide nor deep.  Not at all.


----------



## baskingshark

redrol said:


> I just got the ZSX a couple hours ago.  First impressions, very nice.  Great bass, if not a bit overdone.  Mids are decent, slightly dipped.  Treble is slightly extended but very mellow.   I think the best KZ for sure.  Soundstage is not great, somewhere between my eyes.  Everything else is pretty good.   Really nice extended bass, but not terribly tight.    I think the Sony MH755 have better soundstage but the KZ prolly wins in all other areas.  I dunno if I can think of a better $50 bux iem.
> 
> [edit] NOT wide nor deep.  Not at all.



Do u have the KZ ZS10 pro to compare with? And how is the timbre of instruments on the ZSX?

TIA!


----------



## redrol

The timber is good, best of the KZ's.  Better than the ZS10 Pro imo.  But still not up to par of my higher end sets.


----------



## redrol (Sep 5, 2019)

OK after using deep insertion 3 flange tips, im getting a bit more sound stage.  Better mids too.  I do like them better with 3 flanges.

This reminds me a lot of the Fiio FH7 but tuned better and with less technical refinement.

[edit] decided to hook them up with a balanced cable and into my ES100.  Was using an LG G7 before.  HOLY MOTHER OF BASS.   These are a basshead set of iems, easily.  The mids came up nicely and treble extended.  Also soundstage is much wider.  Es100 for the win!


----------



## Makahl (Sep 5, 2019)

redrol said:


> OK after using deep insertion 3 flange tips, im getting a bit more sound stage.  Better mids too.  I do like them better with 3 flanges.
> 
> This reminds me a lot of the Fiio FH7 but tuned better and with less technical refinement.
> 
> [edit] decided to hook them up with a balanced cable and into my ES100.  Was using an LG G7 before.  HOLY MOTHER OF BASS.   These are a basshead set of iems, easily.  The mids came up nicely and treble extended.  Also soundstage is much wider.  Es100 for the win!



Would you say the sub-bass goes as deep as your KPE? The Kanas Pro was my reference for "basshead" extension.


----------



## DynamicEars

redrol said:


> The timber is good, best of the KZ's.  Better than the ZS10 Pro imo.  But still not up to par of my higher end sets.



are they sounded natural without steely / metallic like ZS10 Pro / ZSN pro /  previous KZ?? how is the timbre compared to Kanas Pro? Thanks

IMHO, MH755 soundstage is considered narrow, an intimate iem. ZS10 pro's soundstage much wider than MH755, and few people mentioned that ZSX soundstage is wider than ZS10 pro


----------



## Aparker2005

Hey guys. I'm soon getting a set of custom Ultimate Ears UE-5 Pros for my gigs and drumming. I've wanted customs for a good while and Ultimate Ears seems great. I have a few of their other products and have been happy with them. 

I'll be keeping my Zs10 pro for backups and listening around the house. For those of you who know these sorts of things, based on db/input levels etc, how will these compare to my Zs10 other than the custom fit? Thank you!

https://pro.ultimateears.com/ue-5-classic-dual-driver-custom-iem.html


----------



## j0p3Y

redrol said:


> OK after using deep insertion 3 flange tips, im getting a bit more sound stage.  Better mids too.  I do like them better with 3 flanges.


What brand/type flanges did you use? That way I know which fit best. Thank you


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Something similar happened to my ES100. The very 1st time I plugged in a 2.5mm cable. The plug would only pushed in 90% and then physically stop (or so I thought). I thought something was defective or bad, and I just happened to end up pushing with a little bit more force. It turned out that there must have been something 'stiff' from the original production. It must have worked loose whatever was stiff, and the 2.5mm plug all the sudden snapped in 100% of the way. After that point, the sound and jack worked flawlessly, and I have had zero issues since.


Yeah, I'm not sure. Maybe if I had tried messing with it more, I might have had different results. Didn't really think my plug wasn't in all the way, since it didn't sit all the way into the unit...then again, some of my cable plugs look like they stick out on my Q1MK2 also. With the ES100 being mostly plastic, I didn't want to be overly rough on it. Anyhow, I'll reconsider getting it again when my refund is posted to my card, or maybe try again next month. I've left the app installed on my phone and the icon is on my homescreen, so I'll get to look at it all the time as a reminder. Lol!


----------



## nraymond

Slater said:


> Something similar happened to my ES100. The very 1st time I plugged in a 2.5mm cable. The plug would only pushed in 90% and then physically stop (or so I thought). I thought something was defective or bad, and I just happened to end up pushing with a little bit more force. It turned out that there must have been something 'stiff' from the original production. It must have worked loose whatever was stiff, and the 2.5mm plug all the sudden snapped in 100% of the way. After that point, the sound and jack worked flawlessly, and I have had zero issues since.



I use balanced cables terminated as 2.5mm TRRS on almost all my headphones and connect them to my DAP that way, but my desktop amps are single-ended so I use adapters to make the headphones single-ended (2.5mm TRRS female to 3.5mm TRS male), and both of my adapters (FiiO, DUNU) require an extra push which generates a final "click" to fully seat the 2.5mm cables into the adapters. My Onkyo DAP is not like that, but it's seen more insertions/removals at this point. I recently got an ES100 and haven't really used it yet, I'll check that when I have a chance to provide another point of reference.


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> I use balanced cables terminated as 2.5mm TRRS on almost all my headphones and connect them to my DAP that way, but my desktop amps are single-ended so I use adapters to make the headphones single-ended (2.5mm TRRS female to 3.5mm TRS male), and both of my adapters (FiiO, DUNU) require an extra push which generates a final "click" to fully seat the 2.5mm cables into the adapters. My Onkyo DAP is not like that, but it's seen more insertions/removals at this point. I recently got an ES100 and haven't really used it yet, I'll check that when I have a chance to provide another point of reference.



Yes, please do. That ‘final click’ you described sounds exactly what I’m referring to. I’ve never experienced it on 3.5mm devices. Perhaps it’s just the nature of some 2.5mm jacks (smaller diameter, less leverage/mass, tighter tolerance, etc).

In any event, I’d rather have a socket be tight than loose. Less chance of it popping loose during use


----------



## Aerdowaith

Another review is up - this one is in English. Sounds like he would definitely put the ZSX in the side-grade camp.


----------



## gourab1995 (Sep 5, 2019)

clickbait titles coming right up , mh755 sound so much better than tin t2. think it beats my zs7 also. it makes the zs7 sound so off and like a concert. On the other hand, mh755 is the live version of the zs7.


----------



## lgcubana

Aerdowaith said:


> Another review is up - this one is in English. Sounds like he would definitely put the ZSX in the side-grade camp.



My take away (from the video): the ZSX has increased detail & clarity, over the ZS10 Pro. But the levels are on the cusp of his tolerances.


----------



## Luxed

lgcubana said:


> My take away (from the video): the ZSX has increased detail & clarity, over the ZS10 Pro. But the levels are on the cusp of his tolerances.



That sounds like something I would like... I already have an IEM that's coming in the mail.

Does anyone know how the ZSX would compare to the ZSN Pro?


----------



## Aerdowaith

Luxed said:


> That sounds like something I would like... I already have an IEM that's coming in the mail.
> 
> Does anyone know how the ZSX would compare to the ZSN Pro?



My understanding was that the ZSN Pro is awesome value but was beaten in most categories by the ZS10 pro, so if the ZSX is better than the 10 pro, it should also be a good but better than the ZSN Pro.


----------



## courierdriver

nraymond said:


> I use balanced cables terminated as 2.5mm TRRS on almost all my headphones and connect them to my DAP that way, but my desktop amps are single-ended so I use adapters to make the headphones single-ended (2.5mm TRRS female to 3.5mm TRS male), and both of my adapters (FiiO, DUNU) require an extra push which generates a final "click" to fully seat the 2.5mm cables into the adapters. My Onkyo DAP is not like that, but it's seen more insertions/removals at this point. I recently got an ES100 and haven't really used it yet, I'll check that when I have a chance to provide another point of reference.


Please do! I'm curious myself. I'm kinda kicking myself now, that I didn't try to mess with the plug insertion force a bit more. Honestly though, I didn't want to break it, or the plugs on my cables. This device seems so fragile, with it's mostly plastic build.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Yes, please do. That ‘final click’ you described sounds exactly what I’m referring to. I’ve never experienced it on 3.5mm devices. Perhaps it’s just the nature of some 2.5mm jacks (smaller diameter, less leverage/mass, tighter tolerance, etc).
> 
> In any event, I’d rather have a socket be tight than loose. Less chance of it popping loose during use


"In any event, I’d rather have a socket be tight than loose. Less chance of it popping loose during use  "

LMAO! Sorry, my mind went straight to the gutter when I read that. We ARE talking about audio stuff here, right?


----------



## eclein

courierdriver said:


> "In any event, I’d rather have a socket be tight than loose. Less chance of it popping loose during use  "
> 
> LMAO! Sorry, my mind went straight to the gutter when I read that. We ARE talking about audio stuff here, right?




Same thing happened to me with my Fiio M6...the headphone jack was tight and even when you think its all the way in its not. Happens still occasionally with different iems.

I’m waiting on C12 and V90s...... next month I’ll have some T800’s and then I’ve gotta sell off some of these I rarely use.
Interesting thing that chart a few posts back ...the Tin Hifi T3 is my daily driver. Totally surprised me how good they turned out to be!


----------



## courierdriver

eclein said:


> Same thing happened to me with my Fiio M6...the headphone jack was tight and even when you think its all the way in its not. Happens still occasionally with different iems.
> 
> I’m waiting on C12 and V90s...... next month I’ll have some T800’s and then I’ve gotta sell off some of these I rarely use.
> Interesting thing that chart a few posts back ...the Tin Hifi T3 is my daily driver. Totally surprised me how good they turned out to be!


From many of the replies that I've been reading, I guess this plug/connector issue isn't uncommon. It's odd to me, since I guess I've been spoiled for the past 1.5 years by my Fiio Q1MK2. The connector jacks on this thing are really solid and I've never had a problem with it. Anything I've ever plugged into it went in easy, with a nice snug fit. No lube required (joke)!


----------



## nraymond

courierdriver said:


> Please do! I'm curious myself. I'm kinda kicking myself now, that I didn't try to mess with the plug insertion force a bit more. Honestly though, I didn't want to break it, or the plugs on my cables. This device seems so fragile, with it's mostly plastic build.



Just tested the 2.5mm balanced jack on my ES100, and yeah, it takes an unusually high (compared to my Onkyo DAP, FiiO and DUNU adapters) amount of force to click the cable all the way in. I can see how that might throw someone off who hadn't experienced that much jack resistance before.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

lgcubana said:


> My take away (from the video): the ZSX has increased detail & clarity, over the ZS10 Pro. But the levels are on the cusp of his tolerances.


It can be too much treble for me .... I'll wait to some C12 review, if CCA suppressed it.


----------



## courierdriver (Sep 6, 2019)

nraymond said:


> Just tested the 2.5mm balanced jack on my ES100, and yeah, it takes an unusually high (compared to my Onkyo DAP, FiiO and DUNU adapters) amount of force to click the cable all the way in. I can see how that might throw someone off who hadn't experienced that much jack resistance before.


Good to know...and much thanks for posting this info. I think I may have just returned a perfectly good unit because I didn't exert enough force on the jack. Wow. I feel like a total dumbass now. At the same time, I wish Radsone might make some kind of statement, either on their website or here on headfi, with regards to this. I'm sure I'm not the only one who babies their gear to last, and would balk at using significant force to literally jam the plug into this tiny plastic unit. Guess I'll reorder the ES100 next month. I won't be as gentle with it next time around.


----------



## gbrgbr

So, which of the many KZs have good/acceptable tonality / timbre ?

Asking because I have, and really like, the ****.


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 6, 2019)

gbrgbr said:


> So, which of the many KZs have good/acceptable tonality / timbre ?
> 
> Asking because I have, and really like, the ****.



Do u find the timbre of instruments on the **** artificial? The KZs ain't as bad timbre wise IMHO.
I know some people ain't particular about timbre, but maybe I'm OCD about this cause I play in a band.
I listen to a lot of jazz and instrumental and I personally can't use the **** for these genres, YMMV. Otherwise for EDM, pop, rock, I am very happy to use the ****. 

I own a few sets of KZ (the most recent being the ZS10 Pro), and they all suffer from slight timbre issues with orchestral instruments, but they are still better timbre wise than the ****. From early reviews of the ZSX that just released, the reviewers said the timbre issues are fixed, but I haven't listened to it personally.

If you are aiming for a budget CHIFI with good timbre/tonality, I would recommend the Toneking Nine Tails, one of the best natural organic timbre I have heard so far.


----------



## skajohyros

OT just found out that timbre is pronounced tamber.


----------



## nxnje

gbrgbr said:


> So, which of the many KZs have good/acceptable tonality / timbre ?
> 
> Asking because I have, and really like, the ****.


If you want I can tell you my 0.02$.
Timbre and tonality wise, my favourite IEMs from KZ are EDR1. Then immediately followed by ED9 and ZS6. ZS10 Pro is technically awesome but it's more of a technical approach compared to the EDR1 for example.


----------



## darmanastartes (Sep 6, 2019)

My ZSX pair should arrive later today, I'll post first impressions and measurements once I get a chance to listen to them.
Unfortunately I probably won't get the TRN V90 for a few more weeks so I won't be able to compare them for a bit.


----------



## khighly

So ZSX extends higher than ZS10 Pro? Once people start complaining about highs, I know it's for me. In about 6 months those same people complaining about highs will think it's the greatest thing ever, mark my words


----------



## audionab

anybody here got equalizer apo presets for kz iems?
looking for zs4 settings in particular


----------



## Slater

nxnje said:


> If you want I can tell you my 0.02$.
> Timbre and tonality wise, my favourite IEMs from KZ are EDR1. Then immediately followed by ED9 and ZS6. ZS10 Pro is technically awesome but it's more of a technical approach compared to the EDR1 for example.



EDR1 are hidden gems for sure. $3 is bonkers, and very few earphones offer that level of bang for the buck value. The only other one that comes to mind is the Sony MH755 for $5.

KZ is nuts for not updating the EDR1. They could tweak the shell design/color, include some Starlines, and replace that gummy old style fixed ‘gut’ cable with a 2-pin removable design. They’d sell a boat load of them.


----------



## Tonymac136

Yeah, KZ would do well to have a go at the DD IEM. I've not heard the EDR1 but the ED9 is a revelation for the money. To my mind BAs in budget IEMs all sound slightly off for timbre. Kz definitely have some nous so to have a £30ish DD IEM with removable cables and the sound of the ED9 only "more" would be a real winner.


----------



## Keputs

Assimilator702 said:


> I have both of them coming. My ZSX are in the states. The C12 are still sitting in China. So I’ll have at least a week with my ZSX by the time my C12 arrive.
> I’ll give initial impressions hopefully within 24 hrs of having them in my hands.
> 
> The cage match between the ZSX, C12 and V90 will be interesting. The new Tool album is waiting to give them all a good workout.


----------



## auraldesire95

Didn't purchase the ZS10 Pro. Didn't purchase the ZSX either...

...I purchased the ZSN Pro instead because I love my ZSN's so much.


----------



## nxnje

Slater said:


> EDR1 are hidden gems for sure. $3 is bonkers, and very few earphones offer that level of bang for the buck value. The only other one that comes to mind is the Sony MH755 for $5.
> 
> KZ is nuts for not updating the EDR1. They could tweak the shell design/color, include some Starlines, and replace that gummy old style fixed ‘gut’ cable with a 2-pin removable design. They’d sell a boat load of them.


I agree 100%.


----------



## Keputs

Just got my Terminators a few hours ago. Still "burning-in" my ears. Sounds better than the zsn that's for sure.


----------



## HungryPanda

Got my KZ ZXS today and although quite large stuck large starline tips on and fired up Tool's Fear Inoculum and I really enjoyed, good wide stage, pretty neutral with a good impact. Need to listen more


----------



## CrazyDelta

HungryPanda said:


> Got my KZ ZXS today and although quite large stuck large starline tips on and fired up Tool's Fear Inoculum and I really enjoyed, good wide stage, pretty neutral with a good impact. Need to listen more



Would you happen to have KZ ZS10 Pro for a comparison when listening to Fear Inoculum? I need to make a decision on one of this pair based on what is best for Tool.


----------



## loomisjohnson

HungryPanda said:


> Got my KZ ZXS today and although quite large stuck large starline tips on and fired up Tool's Fear Inoculum and I really enjoyed, good wide stage, pretty neutral with a good impact. Need to listen more


what do you think of the record? (just posted my thoughts on the blog...)


----------



## crabdog

Back from the future with a vengeance. My thoughts on the ZSX:
https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsx-earphone-review/


----------



## HungryPanda

loomisjohnson said:


> what do you think of the record? (just posted my thoughts on the blog...)


 After such a long wait I was more than pleased, I cannot stop listening as the musicianship is outstanding


----------



## lgcubana (Sep 6, 2019)

audionab said:


> anybody here got equalizer apo presets for kz iems?
> looking for zs4 settings in particular


There's no one answer.  As my base (hate extended highs) could be on the polar end of yours (excessive sparkle and needles to the ear)

I started with one of the presets and one by one, played with each band. I used this chart, for tuning

(Reddit)


----------



## Assimilator702

Luxed said:


> That sounds like something I would like... I already have an IEM that's coming in the mail.
> 
> Does anyone know how the ZSX would compare to the ZSN Pro?



It’s considerably better. ZSX is a bit more forward in overall presentation. FYI I prefer the ZSN PRO to the ZS10 PRO. The bass is fuller without being boomy. It gets downright vicious in Lorde Royals track. Midrange is slightly more forward and sounds fuller.Treble has a bit more bite without having that splashy, metallic uneven ZSN presentation if the cymbal sounds aren’t right in the sweet spot for its tuning. Im using TRN Medium/Wide Bore tips with the red core as the smaller TFZ style bores weren’t giving me enough hihat and  crash presence.  Stage is wider. Lady Gaga, Lorde and Maynard are singing outside the boundaries of my ears instead of living inside my head. Danny Carey’s drum kit sounds massive and more dynamic than I would expect at this price point. A few times I had to check to make sure I didn’t have a pair of TFZ in my ears. Gojira Magma album sounds heavenly. Many sets get all the individual parts of the recording right but just don’t present the album in a satisfying manner due to the density of sound between the very forward and well recorded drums, thick punishing guitar tone and ethereal vocals floating in front of this wall of sound. ZSX has it with this album and another time I had to verify what was in my ears.

I don’t know if or how much things will change after say 60 to 80 hours but those are initial impressions from the 4 hour mark to present @ 28 hours. So far the ZSX is a winner and doesn’t have any of the weird treble character and thin/ recessed mids of the ZS10 PRO. I didn’t agree at first with what BGGAR said about the treble being on the edge of too much. While it wasn’t dark I wasn’t hearing cymbals being presented at proper levels.  But after listening to 3 tracks off the new Tool album I did get that elevated top end presence which of course gives more stage width AND allows for cymbals and percussion to come through nicely. I started to get a touch of a headache since the tracks sounded so good cranked up. That’s always a good sign.....but we have to be careful with our hearing.  The snare drum off track #1 on the Hiromi Brain album is piercing and is mastered forward in the mix. When cranked I SHOULD get the sensation of a headache and the ZSX does this. On a poorly tuned set this snare sounds like a boring “pop” with no character. ZSX does it right. While I won't say the treble has reference level tonality I DO believe KZ has made a step in the right direction in the treble presentation. Those new Bellsig BA units are doing something right. But ask me in a week or so when they hit the 80 to 100 hour mark and I can do some comparisons to better sets.

Again these are very minor reportings on my part but I look for very specific things once I know that the overall tuning is pleasant to my ears. If I don’t  like a certain iem I never do any critical listening. All listening done on either Schiit Magni 3 or Schiit Magni 2U with a Modi 3 playing  FLAC in either 44.1 or 24/96 resolution.


----------



## Assimilator702

HungryPanda said:


> Got my KZ ZXS today and although quite large stuck large starline tips on and fired up Tool's Fear Inoculum and I really enjoyed, good wide stage, pretty neutral with a good impact. Need to listen more


I’m using TRN Black /Red core tips in medium size. I’ve been using large tips on most sets but these larger KZ housings like the A10 and AS12 allow me to use Medium tips. The TRN have the largest bore before the TFZ Wide bores and the Auvio tips which have the largest bores. 

The new Tool does sound amazing on the ZSX.


----------



## darmanastartes

ZSX is in. They're the most natural-sounding KZ's I've heard yet. Measurements below:
 
As always, my measurements were conducted with a Dayton iMM-6 microphone using a vinyl tubing coupler and a calibrated USB sound interface. The measurements use a compensation file derived from comparing my raw measurements with Crinacle’s published measurements. The measurements are presented with 1/24th smoothing. The magnitude of the valley at 7k is a coupler artifact.There is a resonant peak at 8.5k.. Measurements above 10k are not reliable.


----------



## DynamicEars

HungryPanda said:


> Got my KZ ZXS today and although quite large stuck large starline tips on and fired up Tool's Fear Inoculum and I really enjoyed, good wide stage, pretty neutral with a good impact. Need to listen more



no steely / metallic sounds like from most of KZ stuff? timbre sounds natural? Thanks panda



crabdog said:


> Back from the future with a vengeance. My thoughts on the ZSX:
> https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsx-earphone-review/



nice review as always
"There’s no sign of the usual KZ steely treble timbre. It no longer sounds like someone swinging a hammer in the kitchen sink." these words pulling me out of my oath to skip another KZs. This part only made a big improvement over ZS10 pro for me, and another plus point for refinement over already good ZS10 pro. Does it sounds natural and organic? i mean is it very good timbre compared to other iems as well, or "just" better timbre than another KZ?


----------



## chinmie

HungryPanda said:


> Got my KZ ZXS today and although quite large stuck large starline tips on and fired up Tool's Fear Inoculum and I really enjoyed, good wide stage, pretty neutral with a good impact. Need to listen more





Assimilator702 said:


> I’m using TRN Black /Red core tips in medium size. I’ve been using large tips on most sets but these larger KZ housings like the A10 and AS12 allow me to use Medium tips. The TRN have the largest bore before the TFZ Wide bores and the Auvio tips which have the largest bores.
> 
> The new Tool does sound amazing on the ZSX.



to be fair, that album sounded great on all of my gears


----------



## emeraldstone

If I just bought the KZ ZS10 Pro, would it be good to cancel my order and get the KZ ZSX? Initial reviews seems like the new driver configuration is better on the ZSX. I am coming from a Shure SE215 so I am not sure what to expect from either of them 

Any help or feedback is appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## baskingshark

emeraldstone said:


> If I just bought the KZ ZS10 Pro, would it be good to cancel my order and get the KZ ZSX? Initial reviews seems like the new driver configuration is better on the ZSX. I am coming from a Shure SE215 so I am not sure what to expect from either of them
> 
> Any help or feedback is appreciated. Thanks!



I have heard the Shure SE215 and the ZS10 pro is a big upgrade over it, in terms of clarity, details, instrument separation.

I haven't personally heard the ZSX but from initial reviews, the users said the treble timbre and extension is improved, along with some minor improvements.
I think if you don't get any penalty for cancelling your order, and since the price difference between ZSX and ZS10 Pro is a few bucks only, it might be better to go for the ZSX.
For existing owners of the ZS10 Pro like myself, i'll probably give it a miss. But I'm very happy to see KZ improving their timbre and other aspects of their lineup, and not just rest on their laurels.


----------



## emeraldstone

baskingshark said:


> I have heard the Shure SE215 and the ZS10 pro is a big upgrade over it, in terms of clarity, details, instrument separation.
> 
> I haven't personally heard the ZSX but from initial reviews, the users said the treble timbre and extension is improved, along with some minor improvements.
> I think if you don't get any penalty for cancelling your order, and since the price difference between ZSX and ZS10 Pro is a few bucks only, it might be better to go for the ZSX.
> For existing owners of the ZS10 Pro like myself, i'll probably give it a miss. But I'm very happy to see KZ improving their timbre and other aspects of their lineup, and not just rest on their laurels.


Thank you for the quick reply and information!  I'll see if I am able to modify my order to give the ZSX a try.


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my ZSX and my initial impression is WOW this sounds good. If you have ZSN pro or ZS10pro, the ZSX won't sound weird or out of ordinary with KZ's sound, but what separate the ZSX with ZSN pro and ZS10pro is the treble. I don't hear any sibilance with ZSX, but I can hear more "splash" from cymbals which makes it sound more natural like it has a nice decay. If for example on ZS10 pro the decay is like SSss, the ZSX will be more like SSsssss. 
And also I hear less metallic in the treble from ZSX, but I am wondering if it is because of the bump on 8k with the ZS10pro. Soundstage is the same as ZS10pro, but those bump in the 10k really does wonder to make the "nuance" bigger without actually having a bigger soundstage. This is just my initial 20 minutes listening impression and of course with any IEMs using DD, I will wait for more listening to give a better impression. But out of the box, there is nothing weird sounding from the ZSX at all.


----------



## voicemaster

voicemaster said:


> Just got my ZSX and my initial impression is WOW this sounds good. If you have ZSN pro or ZS10pro, the ZSX won't sound weird or out of ordinary with KZ's sound, but what separate the ZSX with ZSN pro and ZS10pro is the treble. I don't hear any sibilance with ZSX, but I can hear more "splash" from cymbals which makes it sound more natural like it has a nice decay. If for example on ZS10 pro the decay is like SSss, the ZSX will be more like SSsssss.
> And also I hear less metallic in the treble from ZSX, but I am wondering if it is because of the bump on 8k with the ZS10pro. Soundstage is the same as ZS10pro, but those bump in the 10k really does wonder to make the "nuance" bigger without actually having a bigger soundstage. This is just my initial 20 minutes listening impression and of course with any IEMs using DD, I will wait for more listening to give a better impression. But out of the box, there is nothing weird sounding from the ZSX at all.



Oh and KZ send me an upgraded silver plated cable (I didn't order any), so I am using that cable when listening to my ZSX while the ZS10 pro is using KZ copper cable that came with purple ZSN.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Oh and KZ send me an upgraded silver plated cable (I didn't order any), so I am using that cable when listening to my ZSX while the ZS10 pro is using KZ copper cable that came with purple ZSN.



That explained the more extension of the trebles like sssss.. Like usually silver plated cable made overall sounds tighter and brighter.

About 8khz boost there is no connection between it with steely/metallic sounding since alot of higher tier iems also boost that 8khz to perceive sparkles without sounded steely or metallic. It mostly caused by their BAs characteristic.

So, how is your perception about "less metallic". Is it better than previous KZ but still unnatural or they already nail the timbre thatnis considered good/natural?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Is there anyone here that has ordered the cca c12? I really can't stand the look of the zsxs faceplate lol ( I think I will skip both anyway since I have so many others that are so much better )


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 7, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> Is there anyone here that has ordered the cca c12? I really can't stand the look of the zsxs faceplate lol ( I think I will skip both anyway since I have so many others that are so much better )



I ordered the C12 in gold last night.  People are talking about it in other threads.  Certain comments have led me to believe that I will like it.

edit:  some discussion begins here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1739#post-15170588


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> That explained the more extension of the trebles like sssss.. Like usually silver plated cable made overall sounds tighter and brighter.
> 
> About 8khz boost there is no connection between it with steely/metallic sounding since alot of higher tier iems also boost that 8khz to perceive sparkles without sounded steely or metallic. It mostly caused by their BAs characteristic.
> 
> So, how is your perception about "less metallic". Is it better than previous KZ but still unnatural or they already nail the timbre thatnis considered good/natural?



It definitely sounds smoother than the zs10pro. Sometimes you can hear the graininess in vocal when listening to zs10pro, but not in zsx. Also, the bass is more detailed, when listening to a drum kick, I can hear when the beater hits the drum better than on zs10pro. And lastly, the timbre is good, but not fx1100 good lol. At least it doesn't sound steely if you want to called it.


----------



## gearofwar (Sep 7, 2019)

Could anyone please compare the AS10 to ZSX? and also *TIN AUDIO T2 . *Thanks


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> It definitely sounds smoother than the zs10pro. Sometimes you can hear the graininess in vocal when listening to zs10pro, but not in zsx. Also, the bass is more detailed, when listening to a drum kick, I can hear when the beater hits the drum better than on zs10pro. And lastly, the timbre is good, but not fx1100 good lol. At least it doesn't sound steely if you want to called it.



Thanks for that, doesnt sounds steely is already good, i dont expect perfect timbre from a budget iem after all. Must be a very good budget then. Should i buy?


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for that, doesnt sounds steely is already good, i dont expect perfect timbre from a budget iem after all. Must be a very good budget then. Should i buy?



Definitely


----------



## PhonoPhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Is there anyone here that has ordered the cca c12? I really can't stand the look of the zsxs faceplate lol ( I think I will skip both anyway since I have so many others that are so much better )



I ordered C12 since I much prefer its simple design (ZSX is not totally of for me, there are much worse KZ designs  )


----------



## moisespr123

Initial impressions on the ZSX = A mix of the warm bass of the ZS7 + the treble of the ZS10.

Just what I was looking for!


----------



## moisespr123

voicemaster said:


> Oh and KZ send me an upgraded silver plated cable (I didn't order any), so I am using that cable when listening to my ZSX while the ZS10 pro is using KZ copper cable that came with purple ZSN.



They usually send the upgrade cable for the first 3 days of the product release. I also got it


----------



## ShakyJake

gearofwar said:


> Could anyone please compare the AS10 to ZSX? and also *TIN AUDIO T2 . *Thanks


Check out the review by @crabdog  for a comparison with the T2. In short, T2 is more neutral, with less bass. ZSX is more V-shaped.

https://primeaudio.org/kz-zsx-earphone-review/


----------



## HungryPanda

I pulled out my red ZS6 today and found i really enjoyed listening to them, it's been a while with all the new offerings but they still sound great


----------



## j0p3Y

voicemaster said:


> Oh and KZ send me an upgraded silver plated cable (I didn't order any), so I am using that cable when listening to my ZSX while the ZS10 pro is using KZ copper cable that came with purple ZSN.


Where did you buy to get this free silver cable? 
What brand is it, and which size of connector? 
Thank you


----------



## voicemaster

j0p3Y said:


> Where did you buy to get this free silver cable?
> What brand is it, and which size of connector?
> Thank you



Bought from their official store in AE. Its the KZ brand, nothing fancy cost like $7


----------



## voicemaster

moisespr123 said:


> Initial impressions on the ZSX = A mix of the warm bass of the ZS7 + the treble of the ZS10.
> 
> Just what I was looking for!



Actually it is more like zs7 bass, zs10 mid and zs6 extended treble.


----------



## SinisterDev

j0p3Y said:


> Where did you buy to get this free silver cable?
> What brand is it, and which size of connector?
> Thank you



I had no idea that KZ sent out upgrade cables! I actually purchased one separately when i got my ZS10 Pro! I wonder if they'd send me one if i ask when i order my ZSX? I like the upgraded cable quite a bit.


----------



## Makahl

SinisterDev said:


> I had no idea that KZ sent out upgrade cables! I actually purchased one separately when i got my ZS10 Pro! I wonder if they'd send me one if i ask when i order my ZSX? I like the upgraded cable quite a bit.



They send it only for the first 100 buyers iirc.


----------



## SinisterDev

Aww. Bummer. Well, maybe ill look into a neat aftermarket cable to pair with them then.


----------



## pbui44 (Sep 7, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> Aww. Bummer. Well, maybe ill look into a neat aftermarket cable to pair with them then.



Dude, there are 3rd party cables that are better than KZ ones and do not cost that much more, it’s just that some of their company names are taboo and not to be supported on these forums. *cough* Y*****o *cough*

Edit:  Just forgot that the KZ ZS10 Pro has a proprietary 2-pin design, so just get a KZ silver one for $9:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32947...MI5PyVw4LA5AIVBpyzCh0Usw_iEAQYASABEgIIqPD_BwE


----------



## emeraldstone

voicemaster said:


> Just got my ZSX and my initial impression is WOW this sounds good. If you have ZSN pro or ZS10pro, the ZSX won't sound weird or out of ordinary with KZ's sound, but what separate the ZSX with ZSN pro and ZS10pro is the treble. I don't hear any sibilance with ZSX, but I can hear more "splash" from cymbals which makes it sound more natural like it has a nice decay. If for example on ZS10 pro the decay is like SSss, the ZSX will be more like SSsssss.
> And also I hear less metallic in the treble from ZSX, but I am wondering if it is because of the bump on 8k with the ZS10pro. Soundstage is the same as ZS10pro, but those bump in the 10k really does wonder to make the "nuance" bigger without actually having a bigger soundstage. This is just my initial 20 minutes listening impression and of course with any IEMs using DD, I will wait for more listening to give a better impression. But out of the box, there is nothing weird sounding from the ZSX at all.


Any thoughts on the comfort of the ZSX? It appears that there is a bigger "bump" (located near the 2-pin connector) due to the driver configuration.


----------



## Mouseman

pbui44 said:


> Dude, there are 3rd party cables that are better than KZ ones and do not cost that much more, it’s just that some of their company names are taboo and not to be supported on these forums. *cough* Y*****o *cough*
> 
> Edit:  Just forgot that the KZ ZS10 Pro has a proprietary 2-pin design, so just get a KZ silver one for $9:
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32947...MI5PyVw4LA5AIVBpyzCh0Usw_iEAQYASABEgIIqPD_BwE


You can find some of those now with a Type C connector. I got a really nice blue and silver one from the company who shall not be named here. Can't remember if it said Type C or QDC connector, doesn't matter - it's the same thing. Cheap and really nice to wear, and balanced on top of it all with a 2.5 connector.


----------



## SinisterDev

pbui44 said:


> Dude, there are 3rd party cables that are better than KZ ones and do not cost that much more, it’s just that some of their company names are taboo and not to be supported on these forums. *cough* Y*****o *cough*
> 
> Edit:  Just forgot that the KZ ZS10 Pro has a proprietary 2-pin design, so just get a KZ silver one for $9:
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32947...MI5PyVw4LA5AIVBpyzCh0Usw_iEAQYASABEgIIqPD_BwE



Yep, i know. I just recently got into this Chifi hobby, so I dont have many IEMs or accessories yet. I did pick up a TRN 16 core cable for my CCAs and i was thinking about picking up one of those nice JCALLY cables I've seen quite a few people say they really like. Honestly if i had known about them first I probably would have skipped getting the gold/silver plated KZ cable. But its ok. I didn't pay that much for it. Ill probably leave those on my ZS10 Pros and get something like the JCALLY or similar for the ZSX.


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 8, 2019)

emeraldstone said:


> Any thoughts on the comfort of the ZSX? It appears that there is a bigger "bump" (located near the 2-pin connector) due to the driver configuration.



Initially,I was afraid of that too as the ZST or ZSR has the same bump and it hurt my ears after awhile. Luckily, there is no pain and the bump is just there but no pressure whatsoever.


----------



## SinisterDev

SinisterDev said:


> Yep, i know. I just recently got into this Chifi hobby, so I dont have many IEMs or accessories yet. I did pick up a TRN 16 core cable for my CCAs and i was thinking about picking up one of those nice JCALLY cables I've seen quite a few people say they really like. Honestly if i had known about them first I probably would have skipped getting the gold/silver plated KZ cable. But its ok. I didn't pay that much for it. Ill probably leave those on my ZS10 Pros and get something like the JCALLY or similar for the ZSX.



This was one of the cables I was considering. FENGRU DIY JCALLY Gold JC16 6N OFC 16 Shares 480 Cores Earphone Upgrade Cable https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/LCpX0spi
So basically any C type or QDC cable will fit them? Ive seen a few cables say that they're compatible with KZ's like the ZS10 Pro, but says they're 0.78mm. Which had me wondering, since the KZ cables are 0.75mm. But all of those do truly fit? 

The biggest obstacle in my way for cable selection is finding ones with connectors that aren't too big. Because i mostly listen to music on my S10+ and the case i have has a somewhat long and narrow cover protecting the jack.  For example the silver/gold KZ cable i picked up fits perfectly, but the connector on the TRN cables is slightly shorter and maybe 0.5mm wider (i could measure the exact difference with some calipers) than the KZ cable, and i cant get that one to fit with the case on! I love my case and really don't want to change it. So either i need to find cables with ideal sized connector or get a USB C dongle or something.


----------



## emeraldstone

voicemaster said:


> Initially,I was afraid of that too as the ZST or ZSR has the same bump and it hurt my ears after awhile. Luckily, there is no pain and the bump is just there but no pressure whatsoever.


Ah that's good the ZSX looks smaller compared to the press release pictures haha Thank you for taking the time to take the pics


----------



## Zerohour88

SinisterDev said:


> This was one of the cables I was considering. FENGRU DIY JCALLY Gold JC16 6N OFC 16 Shares 480 Cores Earphone Upgrade Cable https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/LCpX0spi
> So basically any C type or QDC cable will fit them? Ive seen a few cables say that they're compatible with KZ's like the ZS10 Pro, but says they're 0.78mm. Which had me wondering, since the KZ cables are 0.75mm. But all of those do truly fit?
> 
> The biggest obstacle in my way for cable selection is finding ones with connectors that aren't too big. Because i mostly listen to music on my S10+ and the case i have has a somewhat long and narrow cover protecting the jack.  For example the silver/gold KZ cable i picked up fits perfectly, but the connector on the TRN cables is slightly shorter and maybe 0.5mm wider (i could measure the exact difference with some calipers) than the KZ cable, and i cant get that one to fit with the case on! I love my case and really don't want to change it. So either i need to find cables with ideal sized connector or get a USB C dongle or something.



posted this before, you can search for more info on this thread using the search function (just find "qdc cable")

basically, KZ is just using the qdc connector, right down to the pin size (other manufacturers uses 0.78mm pins, qdc and now KZ uses 0.75mm)

but for some reason, KZ forgot to wire their connectors like qdc, so its reversed (but luckily on both side, so it comes out the same, shouldn't be an issue unless the internal crossovers are special and needs the correct polarity)


----------



## lllandline (Sep 8, 2019)

ZS7 has absolutely the biggest IEM soundstage I've ever heard.
It is out-of-the-head. Also, if you will turn on some phase-inversion dsp's or virtualizers you will be blown away by holographical soundstage. You feel like you can grab instruments and sounds.
Using Cayin N3 as a bluetooth receiver for my phone with james dsp installed.
Stopped using Sony MDR EX800ST, ZS7 is now my daily driver.
Details are naturally tuned, or KZ just got lucky, I don't know, but they outplay everything I have in my collection.
Also, by reversing connectors you can get less bass and wider soundstage, however, they sound fatiguing that way.
Using diy double flange tips made out of reversed small wide-boars and MH755 standard s-size tips put onto them.
Replaced faceplate with ZS6 one.


Spoiler






Got them for 33$ on ali in obviously B-stock packaging and with, uh, melted? eartips. But it doesn't matter.


----------



## redrol

For people that asked. Does the ZSX beat the KPE in timber?  Nope.  The KPE is actually one of the best timber IEMs out there.  I keep mine because they have a special something in that area.. and the mids.  Man do they sing.  

Someone else asked does the ZSX bass compete with the KPE?  I think so.  I'd still give the win to the KPE but the ZSX is still great.  The best KZ bass for sure.  I think the KPE bass has better resolution and detail.  The ZSX impresses going very low with authority and still having decent resolution.


----------



## DynamicEars

redrol said:


> For people that asked. Does the ZSX beat the KPE in timber?  Nope.  The KPE is actually one of the best timber IEMs out there.  I keep mine because they have a special something in that area.. and the mids.  Man do they sing.
> 
> Someone else asked does the ZSX bass compete with the KPE?  I think so.  I'd still give the win to the KPE but the ZSX is still great.  The best KZ bass for sure.  I think the KPE bass has better resolution and detail.  The ZSX impresses going very low with authority and still having decent resolution.



KPE for sure have one of the best timbre in mid fi range - I love the timbre and clear mids, i didnt expect ZSX timbre to be compared with KPE, just expect better from previous steely / metallic KZ bad timbre. Few users already confirm (thanks to @crabdog and @voicemaster) that the timbre is quite good this time without steely sound. What do you think is it sounded natural enough now?


----------



## baskingshark

redrol said:


> For people that asked. Does the ZSX beat the KPE in timber?  Nope.  The KPE is actually one of the best timber IEMs out there.  I keep mine because they have a special something in that area.. and the mids.  Man do they sing.
> 
> Someone else asked does the ZSX bass compete with the KPE?  I think so.  I'd still give the win to the KPE but the ZSX is still great.  The best KZ bass for sure.  I think the KPE bass has better resolution and detail.  The ZSX impresses going very low with authority and still having decent resolution.





DynamicEars said:


> KPE for sure have one of the best timbre in mid fi range - I love the timbre and clear mids, i didnt expect ZSX timbre to be compared with KPE, just expect better from previous steely / metallic KZ bad timbre. Few users already confirm (thanks to @crabdog and @voicemaster) that the timbre is quite good this time without steely sound. What do you think is it sounded natural enough now?




I think in general a well tuned DD would have a more natural timbre/organic sound than the multi BAs/hybrids, especially at the CHIFI budget to midfi segment.
When I wanna listen to music genres that have a lot of acoustic instruments like big band or orchestral music, I'll still take a DD IEM for their better timbre (maybe at the expense of lesser details).

KZ lately has focused a lot on multi BA/hybrids, if they can come up with some single well tuned DD IEMs, they might do well.


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## Papa253 (Sep 8, 2019)

Ok just got kz zsx and in my ears!
Heads up there were reversed in the display packaging left is right and right is left.



This is my first set of KZ's that may be normal for this company? I don't know


----------



## Papa253

MIND blown.
$50. You say?
Ok!


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> I think in general a well tuned DD would have a more natural timbre/organic sound than the multi BAs/hybrids, especially at the CHIFI budget to midfi segment.
> When I wanna listen to music genres that have a lot of acoustic instruments like big band or orchestral music, I'll still take a DD IEM for their better timbre (maybe at the expense of lesser details).
> 
> KZ lately has focused a lot on multi BA/hybrids, if they can come up with some single well tuned DD IEMs, they might do well.



Yeah buddy, I do have lot of DD iems as i love dd (its all written on my avatar right). I just missing good timbre on already good zs10 pro, would be very great budget iems if they nail on timbre too. Pros and cons of course, but kz hybrid timbre is one of worst, i dont expect very natural and very good timbre like DDs, but at least not steely metallic like previous one. A lot of budget hybrid iems also much better in timbre compared to KZ. I just wish KZ fix their timbre issue (and probably they just did in zsx) for their already very good technically iems. I might give them a try once more



Papa253 said:


> Ok just got kz zsx and in my ears!
> Heads up there were reversed in the display packaging left is right and right is left.
> 
> 
> This is my first set of KZ's that may be normal for this company? I don't know



Deceiving right? Left is right and right is left lol.. Let us know your impressions and probably a little bit comparison with T800 (we have clear winner, just share your opinions papa)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 9, 2019)

Some people say the steelie vocals in KZ's have been fixed ever since the ZS10 Pro and ZSN Pro came out. However, I read a comment that this sound problem wasn't fixed on the ZS10 Pro.

Has the problem been fixed or not? Or, has the problem just been minimized?

#Iwon'tbuyanotherKZuntiltheysoundasgoodasotherbrands.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lllandline said:


> ZS7 has absolutely the biggest IEM soundstage I've ever heard. It is out-of-the-head. Stopped using Sony MDR EX800ST, ZS7 is now my daily driver.
> Details are naturally tuned, or KZ just got lucky, I don't know, but they outplay everything I have in my collection.


What cable do you like on your ZS7? My ZS7 doesn't sound as good as you say.


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Some people say the steelie vocals in KZ's have been fixed ever since the ZS10 Pro and ZSN Pro came out. However, I read a comment that this sound problem wasn't fixed on the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> Has the problem been fixed or not? Or, has the problem just been minimized?
> 
> #Iwon'tbuyanotherKZuntiltheysoundasgoodasotherbrands.



Hi welcome back to the KZ forums haha! I thought u have left for the BQEYZ side!

Personally I would say the ZS10 Pro treble has some artificial timbre, especially in acoustic instruments. Voices somewhat less so, but it is still apparent if u do an A/B with a dedicated DD IEM like say the Toneking Ninetails or even Sony MH755.
I heard this timbre issue is improved in the new ZSX (KZ terminator) though.


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> Hi welcome back to the KZ forums haha! I thought u have left for the BQEYZ side!
> 
> Personally I would say the ZS10 Pro treble has some artificial timbre, especially in acoustic instruments. Voices somewhat less so, but it is still apparent if u do an A/B with a dedicated DD IEM like say the Toneking Ninetails or even Sony MH755.
> I heard this timbre issue is improved in the new ZSX (KZ terminator) though.



Yes, I didn't hear any timbre issue with the vocal on the ZS10pro, but cymbals is pretty noticeable. The ZSX has a very nice and natural cymbal sound.


----------



## Demius

I have the Zs10 Pro and as amazing as it was, I gave it to my brother's girlfriend as a gift.

I'm now thinking of getting the ZSX. 

I need help with one thing though! Do you guys know of any decent QDC 3button cable (preferably not over $30) with in-line volume controls and a mic?
That cable bundled with the ZSX would make some sweet commuting IEMs... THANKS!


----------



## Seazer (Sep 9, 2019)

I wanted the blue shell one but i was impatient and just ordered the normal black one. It comes tomorrow, I'll see how it stacks up to the zs10 pro

Edit: and the Tin T2 for good measure. I like the zs10 pro, but the T2 just melt away in my ears, I space out and forget I'm listening to music lol and suddenly it's 3 songs later when I was trying to do a comparison


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

baskingshark said:


> Hi welcome back to the KZ forums haha! I thought u have left for the BQEYZ side!


I'm still waiting for my BQEYZ KB1 and KB100 in the mail.


----------



## lllandline

LaughMoreDaily said:


> What cable do you like on your ZS7? My ZS7 doesn't sound as good as you say.


It's just stock cable from OS V3, like with any BA set, your source is what will make them shine. Tried them with apple dongle on iphone and soundstage shrinked to maybe 50cm, still out of the head with songs that mixed certain way, but generally this spaciousness is gone.
Also, insertion depth - I barely push them into my ears, and my tips are really long.
Some DAPs like Cayin N3 have almost no soundstage when used in their usual mode (reading files from sd card), so keep that in mind.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lllandline said:


> It's just stock cable from OS V3, like with any BA set, your source is what will make them shine.


I'll have to find the stock cable again as I believe it sounds the best with the ZS7. A member said the KZ silver plated 8 core cable sounds better but I disagree. I think it "ruins" the sound.

I'm not sure what OS V3 is, so I guess I'll go back to playing around with the cables I have again...


----------



## lllandline

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'll have to find the stock cable again as I believe it sounds the best with the ZS7. A member said the KZ silver plated 8 core cable sounds better but I disagree. I think it "ruins" the sound.
> 
> I'm not sure what OS V3 is, so I guess I'll go back to playing around with the cables I have again...



HiFi Boy OS V3 is an IEM with just a good quality stock cable. I'm not even sure that I hear any difference with a stock ZS7 one, it's just the way it looks.
Oh, and also placebo, even when fully acknowleged, still plays its role. I really like MDR EX800ST more when I use my fat 4-core copper cable, even after a/b tests that showed me no difference between two of my aftermarket cables, the second one being ISN Audio S8.
Some stock cables are actually really bad (crappy soldering, corrosion, etc), so sometimes changes are more drastic.
Please consider the fact that cables won't make that much of a difference, source is what matters the most.
If you don't like their sound with your current sources - you'll just waste your time.
Also, tip rolling.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 9, 2019)

Papa253 said:


> Ok just got kz zsx and in my ears!
> Heads up there were reversed in the display packaging left is right and right is left.
> 
> 
> This is my first set of KZ's that may be normal for this company? I don't know



The earpieces themselves are labeled correctly.   The right earpiece is packaged in the spot that is labeled Right.... so there is no error.   Maybe it is how they have always done it... I never noticed.  Most of my boxes are long gone so I can't check.




lllandline said:


> Some DAPs like Cayin N3 have almost no soundstage when used in their usual mode (reading files from sd card), so keep that in mind



Out of all my DAPs I have  used my Cayin N3 the most over the past couple of years. I have never noticed a problem with soundstage.  I use the Super Slow filter setting but I doubt that has anything to do with soundstage.



lllandline said:


> If you don't like their sound with your current sources - you'll just waste your time.
> Also, tip rolling.



It is amazing how much difference the tips will make because it can be the difference between having no seal or having a perfect seal.  Fortunately the KZ Starlines work well for me much of the time.  I have bought those big bags full of them from ebay for use on other iems.   I have a pair on my most expensive IEM - the IMR R1 Zenith.  Many of the other owners of that IEM are buying really expensive tips that I had never even heard of.


----------



## lllandline

mbwilson111 said:


> The earpieces themselves are labeled correctly.   The right earpiece is packaged in the spot that is labeled Right.... so there is no error.   Maybe it is how they have always done it... I never noticed.  Most of my boxes are long gone so I can't check.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That means you never tried N3 in usb DAC mode or as a bluetooth receiver.
I also use super slow, others are too harsh.
Everything is relative and relative to mono of course soundstage is there, but it's nothing compared to something that will make your jaw drop a bit.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 9, 2019)

lllandline said:


> That means you never tried N3 in usb DAC mode or as a bluetooth receiver.
> I also use super slow, others are too harsh.
> Everything is relative and relative to mono of course soundstage is there, but it's nothing compared to something that will make your jaw drop a bit.



You are correct.  I have no need to use my N3 as a USB DAC.   I have  a Fubar HD   dac/amp on my desktop.   Also I do not use bluetooth.  In fact, I choose not to own a smartphone.   As much tech as I have... lol.

That is interesting what you say about the other filters being too harsh.  I just went with super slow from the beginning without trying the others because it was said to be the  most natural and best suited for my music.


----------



## archdawg

Seazer said:


> Edit: and the Tin T2 for good measure. I like the zs10 pro, but the T2 just melt away in my ears, I space out and forget I'm listening to music lol and suddenly it's 3 songs later when I was trying to do a comparison


To me the Tin T2 are THE best proof that we all must hear very differently. Quite a few folks here seem to like their set a LOT but no matter what I tried (extended burn-in, tips, sources, cables) they sound distant and veiled to my ears with a very tight, limited soundstage and I feel disconnected from whatever track I run through them. I even bought a second pair to check but nope .... they're the only sets in my stash that make me feel that disconnected - I'd even pick the EDR1 over them, not to mention the MH755 - YMMV.


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Some people say the steelie vocals in KZ's have been fixed ever since the ZS10 Pro and ZSN Pro came out. However, I read a comment that this sound problem wasn't fixed on the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> Has the problem been fixed or not? Or, has the problem just been minimized?
> 
> #Iwon'tbuyanotherKZuntiltheysoundasgoodasotherbrands.



maybe they minimized the problem but just by minimum reduction too, dunno a lot of people say they are OK, but my ZSN pro and ZS10 pro still far away from being natural timbre, its very steely sounded from the first moment i put them on my ears. not being picky since they are really good for the price, very good technicalities , but some other budget hybrid dont have these steely sound. but looks like they did great with ZSX, im waiting now



baskingshark said:


> Hi welcome back to the KZ forums haha! I thought u have left for the BQEYZ side!
> 
> Personally I would say the ZS10 Pro treble has some artificial timbre, especially in acoustic instruments. Voices somewhat less so, but it is still apparent if u do an A/B with a dedicated DD IEM like say the Toneking Ninetails or even Sony MH755.
> I heard this timbre issue is improved in the new ZSX (KZ terminator) though.



yeah hopefully, I'll confirm with that myself. ZSX ordered!



voicemaster said:


> Yes, I didn't hear any timbre issue with the vocal on the ZS10pro, but cymbals is pretty noticeable. The ZSX has a very nice and natural cymbal sound.


nicee.. Im joining the club buddy! thanks to you, my wallet hates you


----------



## rayliam80

archdawg said:


> To me the Tin T2 are THE best proof that we all must hear very differently. Quite a few folks here seem to like their set a LOT but no matter what I tried (extended burn-in, tips, sources, cables) they sound distant and veiled to my ears with a very tight, limited soundstage and I feel disconnected from whatever track I run through them. I even bought a second pair to check but nope .... they're the only sets in my stash that make me feel that disconnected - I'd even pick the EDR1 over them, not to mention the MH755 - YMMV.



I had issues with the T2 until I reverse cable'd them and started doing a lot of ear tip rolling. I settled on KZ starline tips filled with foam. Sounds kinda funny but having the more expensive Tin Audio P1 is making me appreciate the T2 a whole lot more.


----------



## DynamicEars

rayliam80 said:


> I had issues with the T2 until I reverse cable'd them and started doing a lot of ear tip rolling. I settled on KZ starline tips filled with foam. Sounds kinda funny but having the more expensive Tin Audio P1 is making me appreciate the T2 a whole lot more.



Yeah but there are mixed reviews about P1 unlike highly praises for their T2. Love my T2 too for acoustics and vocals


----------



## Papa253 (Sep 9, 2019)

Oops


----------



## Papa253

mbwilson111 said:


> The earpieces themselves are labeled correctly.   The right earpiece is packaged in the spot that is labeled Right.... so there is no error.   Maybe it is how they have always done it... I never noticed.  Most of my boxes are long gone so I can't check.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes the earpieces are labeled correctly but the R earpiece was in package in the side marked left. I just confirmed it again this morning


----------



## rayliam80

DynamicEars said:


> Yeah but there are mixed reviews about P1 unlike highly praises for their T2. Love my T2 too for acoustics and vocals



I got the P1 pretty early on and ordered from MD the morning it went live. I got them because they are planar and knew they'd be a kind of specialty IEM of sorts. I haven't heard the KPE, KXXS or the Oxygen but I was surprised that the P1 has been so controversial. The T2 took a long time to grow on me just because of fit issues but it's heavy in my my IEM rotation now. Since this is the KZ thread, I'm preferring the ZS10 Pro, ZS10 and ZS7 more for like hip-hop, electronic and ambient music and the Tin Audio stuff more for classical and jazz music, soul and r&b.


----------



## Assimilator702

Papa253 said:


> Yes the earpieces are labeled correctly but the R earpiece was in package in the side marked left. I just confirmed it again this morning



All KZ/CCA are package that way with the wire connectors facing each other. It makes for a more no pleasing display of the earpieces.

Has anyone compared the ZSX directly to the ZS7? Has the king been dethroned by the ZSX or does the ZS7 still possess qualities that warrant owning it?


----------



## Nimweth

Assimilator702 said:


> All KZ/CCA are package that way with the wire connectors facing each other. It makes for a more no pleasing display of the earpieces.
> 
> Has anyone compared the ZSX directly to the ZS7? Has the king been dethroned by the ZSX or does the ZS7 still possess qualities that warrant owning it?


I have not heard the ZSX, but have the CCA C12 on order. The ZS7 is my favourite KZ so far and I will compare it to the C12 when it arrives. The ZS7 has a "magic" about it which makes me return to it often. The new KBEAR KB06 is a kind of "ZS7 lite" possessing many of its qualities and a more forward midrange.


----------



## DynamicEars (Sep 9, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> All KZ/CCA are package that way with the wire connectors facing each other. It makes for a more no pleasing display of the earpieces.
> 
> Has anyone compared the ZSX directly to the ZS7? Has the king been dethroned by the ZSX or does the ZS7 still possess qualities that warrant owning it?



our friend @voicemaster have both ZS7 and ZSX and he said ZSX are ZS7 bass with ZS10 PRO's mids and highs with more refined sound and without that artificial steely timbre. He said the best KZ too. cant wait mine to arrive.

edit : adding PRO to ZS10


----------



## gearofwar

DynamicEars said:


> our friend @voicemaster have both ZS7 and ZSX and he said ZSX are ZS7 bass with ZS10 mids and highs with more refined sound and without that artificial steely timbre. He said the best KZ too. cant wait mine to arrive.


you mean the regular ZS10 not the pro? the mid is ok but the high is not good


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> our friend @voicemaster have both ZS7 and ZSX and he said ZSX are ZS7 bass with ZS10 mids and highs with more refined sound and without that artificial steely timbre. He said the best KZ too. cant wait mine to arrive.



Not as much of bass quantity, but it does goes deeper and more detailed than zs10pro. The zsx is more similar sounding to zs10pro than zs7.


----------



## DynamicEars

gearofwar said:


> you mean the regular ZS10 not the pro? the mid is ok but the high is not good



sorry my bad, miss PRO word behind, should be ZS10 PRO


----------



## Assimilator702

DynamicEars said:


> our friend @voicemaster have both ZS7 and ZSX and he said ZSX are ZS7 bass with ZS10 PRO's mids and highs with more refined sound and without that artificial steely timbre. He said the best KZ too. cant wait mine to arrive.
> 
> edit : adding PRO to ZS10



Interesting. But I don’t hear the ZS10 PRO and ZSX having anything similar in the midrange and especially the treble. The midrange/treble region is the reason I dislike the ZS10 PRO after hearing better stuff. ZSX is an improvement across the board in timbre and tonality and actual frequency response. 

As soon as I heard the C10 I believed it was the alternate/better tuned version of the ZS10 PRO. Or at least the ZS10 PRO with a better tuning. I wish I heard the C10 first because I truely believed it was the inferior iem based on reviews.


----------



## DynamicEars

Assimilator702 said:


> Interesting. But I don’t hear the ZS10 PRO and ZSX having anything similar in the midrange and especially the treble. The midrange/treble region is the reason I dislike the ZS10 PRO after hearing better stuff. ZSX is an improvement across the board in timbre and tonality and actual frequency response.
> 
> As soon as I heard the C10 I believed it was the alternate/better tuned version of the ZS10 PRO. Or at least the ZS10 PRO with a better tuning. I wish I heard the C10 first because I truely believed it was the inferior iem based on reviews.



Yeah im hoping for better trebles too on zsx, zs10 pro is a little bit too bright (and steely). C10 is more balance, with rolled off trebles, i got c10 first when they are came out that time, and zs10 pro after jist like their release date.
Zs10 pro indeed semi v shaped compared to c10 but c10 sounds more boring, safe but nothing special even in technicalities with more mid bass bleed. Sub bass and bass in zs10 pro clearly better for me, with better separation, better soundstage. But yeah trebles a bit bright and timbre really put me off with that steely sound. Hopefully zsx doesn't disappoint me.


----------



## emeraldstone

Demius said:


> I have the Zs10 Pro and as amazing as it was, I gave it to my brother's girlfriend as a gift.
> 
> I'm now thinking of getting the ZSX.
> 
> ...


I would check out the KZ Bluetooth 5.0 cable as I have not seen been a wired mic cable so far for the QDC connector: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33016635535.html

I am currently using the KZ Bluetooth 4.0 cable and it has a hiss when there is no music playing (not noticiable when music is playing) but I heard the hiss was not as apparent on the new one.


----------



## voicemaster

emeraldstone said:


> I would check out the KZ Bluetooth 5.0 cable as I have not seen been a wired mic cable so far for the QDC connector: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33016635535.html
> 
> I am currently using the KZ Bluetooth 4.0 cable and it has a hiss when there is no music playing (not noticiable when music is playing) but I heard the hiss was not as apparent on the new one.



Or better yet the trn bt20s.


----------



## Seazer

Wow guys, i just got the ZSX and it sounds amazing. I would not hesitate to choose it over the ZS10 Pro. It sounds like a straight up upgrade over the ZS10 pro. 

Deeper sub bass extension, further extended highs, more natural timbre/less steely and artificial. Less fatigue, more refined and full sounding bass. Definitely not less bass, but it sounds less lost and blurred in the mix than the zs10 pro. Imaging is improved with the extended highs, and the lack of fatigue makes it easier to really listed to those microdetails, improving the sense of soundstage, even though technically the soundstage is about the same as the zs10 pro. 

The T2 is definitely more recessed and laid back, but these have a combination of being smooth and engaging. T2 definitely does it's own thing and i still like them, but overall I think the ZSX is the best of the 3 for sure.


----------



## MacAttack7

How big is the ZSX compared to the ZS10 Pro? I have zero motivation to replace the ZS10 Pro unless there is something that sounds just as good that is smaller & lighter for a little better fit. 
From what little I've read the ZSX is bigger, and if that's the case I would recommend the ZS10 Pro as both fit & sound are important, and it definitely sounds great.


----------



## emeraldstone

MacAttack7 said:


> How big is the ZSX compared to the ZS10 Pro? I have zero motivation to replace the ZS10 Pro unless there is something that sounds just as good that is smaller & lighter for a little better fit.
> From what little I've read the ZSX is bigger, and if that's the case I would recommend the ZS10 Pro as both fit & sound are important, and it definitely sounds great.


This video shows them side by side so you might have a good idea in how much bigger it is: 

Taking a look at initial reviews, the comfort due to the larger size doesn't seem to be an issue but YMMV.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 9, 2019)

MacAttack7 said:


> How big is the ZSX compared to the ZS10 Pro? I have zero motivation to replace the ZS10 Pro unless there is something that sounds just as good that is smaller & lighter for a little better fit.
> From what little I've read the ZSX is bigger, and if that's the case I would recommend the ZS10 Pro as both fit & sound are important, and it definitely sounds great.



I don't notice the size differencene at all. For all intents and purposes they feel the same to me


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> How big is the ZSX compared to the ZS10 Pro? I have zero motivation to replace the ZS10 Pro unless there is something that sounds just as good that is smaller & lighter for a little better fit.
> From what little I've read the ZSX is bigger, and if that's the case I would recommend the ZS10 Pro as both fit & sound are important, and it definitely sounds great.



They both fit great for me, but zsx with its extra fin helps to make it stay still eventho the zsx is noticeably fatter than zs10pro. It will stick out more from your ears, but the size in your ear is just a tad bigger.


----------



## bedlamite

I'll wait till the 11.11 sales hit on Aliexpress to pick up the ZSX. My ZS10-Pros have barely broken in and another KZ has dropped, it's crazy. Not to mention I just picked up the CCA C12s last night . I thought I'd be saving money with Chi-fi, but I'm dropping 30 bucks every week here. It's crazy!


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Or better yet the trn bt20s.



Oh yeah a bit oot, is bt20s sounds better than older bt20? I mean with same aac codec connected. Still hesitate to upgrade if there is not so much improvement over the old one.
And how about aptx in bt20s compared to aac in bt20? Skip sbs codec cause i always connected to aac.

And how about pairing zsx with bt20/20s?

You just drag me in to kz rabbit hole one more time so please be wise with your words. My wallet hates you.

Thanks


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Oh yeah a bit oot, is bt20s sounds better than older bt20? I mean with same aac codec connected. Still hesitate to upgrade if there is not so much improvement over the old one.
> And how about aptx in bt20s compared to aac in bt20? Skip sbs codec cause i always connected to aac.
> 
> And how about pairing zsx with bt20/20s?
> ...



Just get the bt20s. Better build quality, better battery life and aptx for $10 different. And bt20s plays louder than bt20.


----------



## emeraldstone (Sep 9, 2019)

Does anyone know the sizing of the KZ ZSX tips? I am looking for some foam tips for them and I saw from EarPoster's review that the nozzle size is 6mm compared to the usual 5.5mm on the ZS10 Pro but the KZ OEM ones are "4.2mm" inner diameter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951097956.html

I also saw some T400 tips from NiceHCK but they are ~5mm inner diameter: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838197675.html


----------



## voicemaster

emeraldstone said:


> Does anyone know the sizing of the KZ ZSX tips? I am looking for some foam tips for them and I saw from EarPoster's review that the nozzle size is 6mm compared to the usual 5.5mm on the ZS10 Pro but the KZ OEM ones are "4.2mm" inner diameter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951097956.html
> 
> I also saw some T400 tips from NiceHCK but they are ~5mm inner diameter:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838197675.html



I use this 
12Pcs Replacement Eartips- RIYO Premium Memory Foam Earphone Earbuds Tips Noise Reducing Earbud Tips for 5mm-7mm in-Ear Headphones Nozzle (Medium, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0722LZ66S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_gQYDDbCPJD9S1


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 10, 2019)

I just got my BQEYZ KB1 ($20USD) and it sounds like a well tuned KZ! OMG. I've been waiting for KZ to do this for years. It doesn't sound as exciting as the ZSN but it sounds great none-the-less for hours of listening at a time.

If KZ can start using better components they will have a winning brand and it will show as this is the largest earphone thread on Head-Fi.

On a side note - I got my NiceHCK copper 16 core cable as well and on the non-Pro ZS10 the music sounds much worse than the ZSN Copper cable, which doesn't sound bad at all. That ZSN cable is less than 50% of the price of the 16 core and it sounds a 100x better!

In other cable news, it was said on the cable thread that 16 core cables don't sound as good as 4 core and 8 core ones, so this will be the last 16 core cable for me.


----------



## emeraldstone

voicemaster said:


> I use this
> 12Pcs Replacement Eartips- RIYO Premium Memory Foam Earphone Earbuds Tips Noise Reducing Earbud Tips for 5mm-7mm in-Ear Headphones Nozzle (Medium, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0722LZ66S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_gQYDDbCPJD9S1


Thanks for the reply! Seems to be also available on Amazon Canada too. I'll give these a try if I do not end up liking the included eartips.


----------



## raccoon city

I'm holding out for the 1,024 core cable...
It'll sound amazing!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Assimilator702 said:


> As soon as I heard the C10 I believed it was the alternate/better tuned version of the ZS10 PRO. Or at least the ZS10 PRO with a better tuning. I wish I heard the C10 first because I truely believed it was the inferior iem based on reviews.


Yay, for constructive criticism. Sorry, ZS10 Pro owners.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Yay, for constructive criticism. Sorry, ZS10 Pro owners.



Have both, still prefer ZS10pro sound tuning than C10, although C10 is not bad in anyway.
In the end, both are technically KZ. You prefer one or the other, KZ still got your money xD.


----------



## SinisterDev

Assimilator702 said:


> Interesting. But I don’t hear the ZS10 PRO and ZSX having anything similar in the midrange and especially the treble. The midrange/treble region is the reason I dislike the ZS10 PRO after hearing better stuff. ZSX is an improvement across the board in timbre and tonality and actual frequency response.
> 
> As soon as I heard the C10 I believed it was the alternate/better tuned version of the ZS10 PRO. Or at least the ZS10 PRO with a better tuning. I wish I heard the C10 first because I truely believed it was the inferior iem based on reviews.



Im glad you hold the C10 in such high regard. The C10 was actually my very first chifi IEM and i love em! The ZS10 Pro was my second purchase. Which I'm also quite happy with. I was also lead to believe that the ZS10 Pro was superior in every way. But honestly im not so sure. There are aspects of both that I really like. I have a difficult time articulating my thoughts on the different things I like about each one. I suppose ill have to better familiarize myself with all the lingo lol.  Im such a noob when it comes to all the terms that people use to describe sound. Right now ive been listening to the new Tool album. And ive been listening to each track twice , alternating between each set, so i can really listen for the differences in how they're tuned. The individual experiences Im having are making me wonder whether I should pick up the ZSX or the C12 now.. Im quite torn..


----------



## voicemaster

SinisterDev said:


> Im glad you hold the C10 in such high regard. The C10 was actually my very first chifi IEM and i love em! The ZS10 Pro was my second purchase. Which I'm also quite happy with. I was also lead to believe that the ZS10 Pro was superior in every way. But honestly im not so sure. There are aspects of both that I really like. I have a difficult time articulating my thoughts on the different things I like about each one. I suppose ill have to better familiarize myself with all the lingo lol.  Im such a noob when it comes to all the terms that people use to describe sound. Right now ive been listening to the new Tool album. And ive been listening to each track twice , alternating between each set, so i can really listen for the differences in how they're tuned. The individual experiences Im having are making me wonder whether I should pick up the ZSX or the C12 now.. Im quite torn..



Buy both, problem solved ;D


----------



## SinisterDev

voicemaster said:


> Buy both, problem solved ;D


XD Hahaha, ikr? I honestly wish I could! Id love to compare them myself. But the budget has been super tight lately, so I'm going to have to just choose one for now. Been waiting to see more direct comparisons between the two before I pull the trigger on one. Ive seen some people say they were going to pick up the C12 because they preferred the looks vs the ZSX. But they both look nice to me. I wanna see an actual comparison between how they sound! If anyone's seen a comparison like that, kindly point me in the direction of it please!


----------



## voicemaster

SinisterDev said:


> XD Hahaha, ikr? I honestly wish I could! Id love to compare them myself. But the budget has been super tight lately, so I'm going to have to just choose one for now. Been waiting to see more direct comparisons between the two before I pull the trigger on one. Ive seen some people say they were going to pick up the C12 because they preferred the looks vs the ZSX. But they both look nice to me. I wanna see an actual comparison between how they sound! If anyone's seen a comparison like that, kindly point me in the direction of it please!



Still waiting for my C12 to ship. Will do comparison with ZSX for sure.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Just get the bt20s. Better build quality, better battery life and aptx for $10 different. And bt20s plays louder than bt20.



well as BT20 owner differences will be the full price because i wont use the old one right? I mean how about sound quality only, aside from build quality and battery life? I should ask on the thread but yeah you got both so i just chip in when discussing about zsx


----------



## chinmie

DynamicEars said:


> well as BT20 owner differences will be the full price because i wont use the old one right? I mean how about sound quality only, aside from build quality and battery life? I should ask on the thread but yeah you got both so i just chip in when discussing about zsx



i have both. I'd say if you have the BT20 already, you don't have to upgrade, as the difference soundwise is only that the BT20S have a more powerful amp, so it is louder.. which can be either a good or a bad thing depending the sensitivity of your IEM. 

codec difference are minimal, if any at all.


----------



## baskingshark

chinmie said:


> i have both. I'd say if you have the BT20 already, you don't have to upgrade, as the difference soundwise is only that the BT20S have a more powerful amp, so it is louder.. which can be either a good or a bad thing depending the sensitivity of your IEM.
> 
> codec difference are minimal, if any at all.



I heard BT20S is waterproof and has better battery life?

I am pretty happy with my BT20 currently, it pairs with the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro very well with no issues.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> I heard BT20S is waterproof and has better battery life?
> 
> I am pretty happy with my BT20 currently, it pairs with the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro very well with no issues.



better battery life and better connection stability. but even if it's waterproof, won't be the weak spot still be the attached IEM and the connector itself?

yup, the ZS10 Pro is great with the old BT20.. no noticable noise. i have another 2 Pin BT20S inbound, I'll report back whether it would still be a great combo to the ZS10 Pro or not


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> i have both. I'd say if you have the BT20 already, you don't have to upgrade, as the difference soundwise is only that the BT20S have a more powerful amp, so it is louder.. which can be either a good or a bad thing depending the sensitivity of your IEM.
> 
> codec difference are minimal, if any at all.



thanks for this, alright thats what i need to know, I dont need louder sound from BT20 as i never past around 90% volume. I just upgrade when my old BT20 down someday, or any significant upgrade with new model.



baskingshark said:


> I heard BT20S is waterproof and has better battery life?
> 
> I am pretty happy with my BT20 currently, it pairs with the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro very well with no issues.



yes, "waterproof" in ip5 rating, or sweat proof actually with old BT20 have complaints about died after gym use. Nooo you still cant hear them while diving in swimming pool / sea 
and yes there is an improvement with battery life also, but i seldom ran out of battery, power bank does its job well


----------



## mbwilson111

bedlamite said:


> I'll wait till the 11.11 sales hit on Aliexpress to pick up the ZSX. My ZS10-Pros have barely broken in and another KZ has dropped, it's crazy. Not to mention I just picked up the CCA C12s last night . I thought I'd be saving money with Chi-fi, but I'm dropping 30 bucks every week here. It's crazy!



But this is more fun, right?


----------



## BadReligionPunk

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got my BQEYZ KB1 ($20USD) and it sounds like a well tuned KZ! OMG. I've been waiting for KZ to do this for years. It doesn't sound as exciting as the ZSN but it sounds great none-the-less for hours of listening at a time.
> 
> If KZ can start using better components they will have a winning brand and it will show as this is the largest earphone thread on Head-Fi.
> 
> ...


I think the big thing is that BQEYZ actually spends time tuning their BA drivers and as a result get a smoother less harshy treble then KZ. 
Sounds like they tides have turned a bit though with the ZSX and possibly the C12. Cant wait to see whats next. 

Still love the ES4 and the ZSN though. ES4 is tethered to BT20 and is a hip hop machine and ZSN's harshy treble is actually really good for Punk/Garage Rock. Atleast for me it is. Love the way guitars sound a little hairy with them. Good stuff KZ!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 10, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I just got my BQEYZ KB1 ($20USD) and it sounds like a well tuned KZ! OMG. I've been waiting for KZ to do this for years. It doesn't sound as exciting as the ZSN but it sounds great none-the-less for hours of listening at a time.
> 
> If KZ can start using better components they will have a winning brand and it will show as this is the largest earphone thread on Head-Fi.
> 
> ...


Such difference in cables indicates source-dependence and limitations of the source rather than problems with cables. (I had similar experience with AS10 and non-balanced output of my DAP, where the setup with original cable sounded much better to my ears compared to using upgrade cables)

I do very much like 8- and 16-core cables - they work very well over ear, no microphonics and jewelry-like look as a bonus 

I do not expect them to sound different based on their number of cores, impedance (resistance, capacitance, inductance...) but colours - are a different matter! Lght blue is fantastic, as well as violet; silver-coloured ones  give liveliness and sparkles, and then the green sound best with golden AS12


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> thanks for this, alright thats what i need to know, I dont need louder sound from BT20 as i never past around 90% volume. I just upgrade when my old BT20 down someday, or any significant upgrade with new model.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For me, the better build quality is the main factor. My bt20 button, especially the left side, can't be pushed after I unplug the charger connection because the connector inside will move around. So I have to take a small plier to pull the connector back out a little bit. All of my complains from bt20 are fixed in bt20s.


----------



## rafaelroxalot

Kz Zs7 has more bass than Kz Zs10 and KZ Es4?


----------



## thebearded1

I received the ZSX yesterday...  And they are killing my ears.  Specifically, the pinna.  Because this is my first set of IEM, should I expect this pain to subside?  Is there a so-called break-in period as far as ear comfort is concerned?  It's kind of funny, because there is hardly any pressure from the IEM.  It just seems like my ears become sensitive after some time.


----------



## Slater

MacAttack7 said:


> How big is the ZSX compared to the ZS10 Pro? I have zero motivation to replace the ZS10 Pro unless there is something that sounds just as good that is smaller & lighter for a little better fit.
> From what little I've read the ZSX is bigger, and if that's the case I would recommend the ZS10 Pro as both fit & sound are important, and it definitely sounds great.



I am only going by photos because I don’t own the ZSX. But from what I can tell, the ZSX is based off the ZSR shell. And of course the ZS10 Pro is based off the ZSN shell (which is based off the ZST shell).

If I am right about the ZSX being based off the ZSR, I personally wasn’t a fan of the ZSR fit. It was a little odd for my ears; like long or deep or bulbous. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it.


----------



## Slater (Sep 10, 2019)

thebearded1 said:


> I received the ZSX yesterday...  And they are killing my ears.  Specifically, the pinna.  Because this is my first set of IEM, should I expect this pain to subside?  Is there a so-called break-in period as far as ear comfort is concerned?  It's kind of funny, because there is hardly any pressure from the IEM.  It just seems like my ears become sensitive after some time.



This might sound dumb, but are you sure you actually have them oriented properly?

Here’s the right vs wrong way to wear them. ‘Pointy’ part goes down, cable points back and goes up and around the ear.

Right:




Wrong:




Also left and right side are important, because the nozzles are angled. So make sure left and right shells are correct.

1. Hold up the IEM so that the ‘pointy’ part of the shell is facing down.
2. Now look at what direction the nozzle/eartip is pointing towards.
3. If the nozzle/eartip is pointing to the LEFT, then that’s the LEFT IEM shell.
4. If the nozzle/eartip is pointing to the RIGHT, then that’s the RIGHT IEM shell.


----------



## voicemaster

I couldn't use my zsr for more than an hour or my ear will starting to hurt. But, the zsx surprisingly doesn't give me any pressure or pain. I wonder if you can shave off the extra fin on the zsx.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

thebearded1 said:


> I received the ZSX yesterday...  And they are killing my ears.  Specifically, the pinna.  Because this is my first set of IEM, should I expect this pain to subside?  Is there a so-called break-in period as far as ear comfort is concerned?  It's kind of funny, because there is hardly any pressure from the IEM.  It just seems like my ears become sensitive after some time.



Welcome to the world of IEMs. No one make is going to fit all people comfortably. Assuming they are inserted correctly in your ears, they shouldn't hurt at all. If they do hurt then that style is not for you. Its a shame that most of us can't try before buy.


----------



## Leo-rume (Sep 10, 2019)

Slater said:


> I am only going by photos because I don’t own the ZSX. But from what I can tell, the ZSX is based off the ZSR shell. And of course the ZS10 Pro is based off the ZSN shell (which is based off the ZST shell).
> 
> If I am right about the ZSX being based off the ZSR, I personally wasn’t a fan of the ZSR fit. It was a little odd for my ears; like long or deep or bulbous. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it.



Yup, right about it being based of the ZSR's shell. Here are some side by side pictures I found on Twitter.

 


Very similar indeed. Looking just a bit smaller on the ZSX. Those ZSR's though. Gigantic. Lol. Nozzle size alone is quite scary.


----------



## Leo-rume (Sep 10, 2019)

.


----------



## Coldheart29

thebearded1 said:


> I received the ZSX yesterday...  And they are killing my ears.  Specifically, the pinna.  Because this is my first set of IEM, should I expect this pain to subside?  Is there a so-called break-in period as far as ear comfort is concerned?  It's kind of funny, because there is hardly any pressure from the IEM.  It just seems like my ears become sensitive after some time.


Actually, i've found that my ears do need some time to get used to a new iem's shape. It happened both with the ZST and the ZSR. At first i'd start to feel a bit of pain in some points of the ear after a little while, but keeping on using them for a couple days gave my ears the time to "get used to it", and now none of the two gives me issues. Now i actually find the ZSR incredibly comfortable, probably the most comfortable iems i ever owned.
And i'm pretty sure i had the same thing happen with the shure se215 back when i first got those.

Also, make sure you find the right position for the earpieces, rotating them even a couple degrees up or down can make all the difference with this kind of shape!


----------



## thebearded1

Slater said:


> I am only going by photos because I don’t own the ZSX. But from what I can tell, the ZSX is based off the ZSR shell. And of course the ZS10 Pro is based off the ZSN shell (which is based off the ZST shell).
> 
> If I am right about the ZSX being based off the ZSR, I personally wasn’t a fan of the ZSR fit. It was a little odd for my ears; like long or deep or bulbous. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it.


I got a chuckle out of some of these photos.  Thanks.  But I get your point, and I am wearing them correctly.


----------



## thebearded1

voicemaster said:


> I couldn't use my zsr for more than an hour or my ear will starting to hurt. But, the zsx surprisingly doesn't give me any pressure or pain. I wonder if you can shave off the extra fin on the zsx.



Following the photo, it's the Antitragus that is "pained".  It's kind of strange, because I can touch/poke/squeeze the same area with my fingers, and feel no pain.  It's only after wearing the IEMs for 2+ hours that I have discomfort.  The human body is weird.


----------



## thebearded1

Coldheart29 said:


> Actually, i've found that my ears do need some time to get used to a new iem's shape. It happened both with the ZST and the ZSR. At first i'd start to feel a bit of pain in some points of the ear after a little while, but keeping on using them for a couple days gave my ears the time to "get used to it", and now none of the two gives me issues. Now i actually find the ZSR incredibly comfortable, probably the most comfortable iems i ever owned.
> And i'm pretty sure i had the same thing happen with the shure se215 back when i first got those.
> 
> Also, make sure you find the right position for the earpieces, rotating them even a couple degrees up or down can make all the difference with this kind of shape!


I'm hoping that's the case.  I'll give them a few more days.


----------



## lgcubana

thebearded1 said:


> Following the photo, it's the Antitragus that is "pained".  It's kind of strange, because I can touch/poke/squeeze the same area with my fingers, and feel no pain.  It's only after wearing the IEMs for 2+ hours that I have discomfort.  The human body is weird.


If you're using the stock silicone tips, maybe try foam; which may give you an ever so slight variation on the seating, of the offending earpiece


----------



## voicemaster

thebearded1 said:


> Following the photo, it's the Antitragus that is "pained".  It's kind of strange, because I can touch/poke/squeeze the same area with my fingers, and feel no pain.  It's only after wearing the IEMs for 2+ hours that I have discomfort.  The human body is weird.



Or you could modify your ears. Hahaha


----------



## thebearded1

lgcubana said:


> If you're using the stock silicone tips, maybe try foam; which may give you an ever so slight variation on the seating, of the offending earpiece


The tips aren't the problem.  It's the outside of the housing.  The IEMs rest ever so lightly against my ear, which becomes painful after a time.  Thanks for the tip, though.  ;0)


----------



## thebearded1

voicemaster said:


> Or you could modify your ears. Hahaha


I'm getting out the x-acto knife as we speak....  Who needs ears anyway?


----------



## courierdriver

thebearded1 said:


> I'm getting out the x-acto knife as we speak....  Who needs ears anyway?


This is what one could call "Extreme DIY" Lol!


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> This is what one could call "Extreme DIY" Lol!



We have universal IEM, why not universal ears xD. Just need the right mold.


----------



## baskingshark

thebearded1 said:


> Following the photo, it's the Antitragus that is "pained".  It's kind of strange, because I can touch/poke/squeeze the same area with my fingers, and feel no pain.  It's only after wearing the IEMs for 2+ hours that I have discomfort.  The human body is weird.



I had the same issue with some IEMs that are large (like the original ZS10). I found that in some IEMs, this can be mitigated by using a longer nozzle eartip such as the spinfits, so the shell itself doesn't come so much in contact with the ear as the longer nozzle elevates it away. YMMV.


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> I had the same issue with some IEMs that are large (like the original ZS10). I found that in some IEMs, this can be mitigated by using a longer nozzle eartip such as the spinfits, so the shell itself doesn't come so much in contact with the ear as the longer nozzle elevates it away. YMMV.


Very much so!
As well, wider tips, such as JVC spiral dots, worked for me to minimize the depth of the insertion and thus the contact of the housing with the inner parts of the ear (exactly in my efforts to make infamous ZS10 fit, after that even BA10 worked ))


----------



## baskingshark

PhonoPhi said:


> Very much so!
> As well, wider tips, such as JVC spiral dots, worked for me to minimize the depth of the insertion and thus the contact of the housing with the inner parts of the ear (exactly in my efforts to make infamous ZS10 fit, after that even BA10 worked ))



Wow if u managed to comfortably fit both the ZS10 and BA10, this is indeed the best pro tip! (no pun intended).


----------



## thebearded1

baskingshark said:


> I had the same issue with some IEMs that are large (like the original ZS10). I found that in some IEMs, this can be mitigated by using a longer nozzle eartip such as the spinfits, so the shell itself doesn't come so much in contact with the ear as the longer nozzle elevates it away. YMMV.


Which spinfits did you use?  I see there are "regular" tips and double-flange tips.  I understand you used them on different IEMs, this question is just to give me an idea of the direction you are suggesting.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I had that problem with the C10 of all IEMs. It just put enough pressure on me antitragus that it would cause pain. Very weird as ZST and ZSN fit as good as could be. C10's nozzle was different enough that it just fit weird enough in my ear to cause issues.  I finally remedied it with the correct tip which for me was a slightly smaller tip that could go a bit deeper at a slightly offset angle to relieve that pressure while also giving me a seal. Not a bad ideal to futz around with tips. It could help and it definitely wont hurt. 

However never put up with pain for an IEM. If it hurts you, get rid off it.


----------



## MacAttack7

thebearded1 said:


> Which spinfits did you use?  I see there are "regular" tips and double-flange tips.  I understand you used them on different IEMs, this question is just to give me an idea of the direction you are suggesting.


I have a pair of SpinFit CP145's on my ZS10 Pro & like them better than the KZ Starlines that it came with.

I'd like to try a pair of the CP240-M double-flange on my ED16's, but I read mixed opinions. 
May go with those or just a basic cheaper double flange.


----------



## baskingshark

thebearded1 said:


> Which spinfits did you use?  I see there are "regular" tips and double-flange tips.  I understand you used them on different IEMs, this question is just to give me an idea of the direction you are suggesting.



I don't have the ZSX so I don't know the nozzle diameter and sizing, but in general, I have used the spinfit CP100 (non double flange) on at least 4 KZs and they all fit perfectly on it.
In addition, I like that they are more isolating and comfortable than the stock KZ tips, but the sound signature does change a very small bit.

U can google "spinfit sizing compatibility chart" and they will tell u which CP fits which nozzle size. Unfortunately, spinfit doesn't put the budget CHIFI IEMs in their compatibility chart, so just measure your own IEM to confirm.
I have no experience with the double flange ones, or JVC tips, maybe the others can chime in too.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

thebearded1 said:


> I'm getting out the x-acto knife as we speak....  Who needs ears anyway?



Just get these. I wont laugh at you I promise...


----------



## thebearded1

BadReligionPunk said:


> Just get these. I wont laugh at you I promise...


That.  Is.  Awesome.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

thebearded1 said:


> That.  Is.  Awesome.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 10, 2019)

I'll compare these to the trn v90 once i get them in about 10 days, apparently they sound similar


----------



## Assimilator702

SinisterDev said:


> Im glad you hold the C10 in such high regard. The C10 was actually my very first chifi IEM and i love em! The ZS10 Pro was my second purchase. Which I'm also quite happy with. I was also lead to believe that the ZS10 Pro was superior in every way. But honestly im not so sure. There are aspects of both that I really like. I have a difficult time articulating my thoughts on the different things I like about each one. I suppose ill have to better familiarize myself with all the lingo lol.  Im such a noob when it comes to all the terms that people use to describe sound. Right now ive been listening to the new Tool album. And ive been listening to each track twice , alternating between each set, so i can really listen for the differences in how they're tuned. The individual experiences Im having are making me wonder whether I should pick up the ZSX or the C12 now.. Im quite torn..


While you’re deciding get the TRN V90. It’s REALLY good. As much as I like the ZSX the V90 seems to be a bit more refined and an improvement in tonality. ZSX = aggressive and in your face with killer bass. TRN V90 = pulled back a bit, more sense of space, not as aggressive with a bit more refinement and improved tonality. And the wildcard big boy .... the  Moondrop  KXXS = laid back a touch more and even MORE refinement and more natural tonality. Bass not as big but delivers the goods when called for.

If we learn anything from KZ / CCA the C12 will be the less aggressive and more evenly tuned compared to the ZSX. And the ZSX is the best Hybrid KZ has ever released as afar as I’m concerned. The only winner I don’t own from KZ is the ZS7.

I did notice one thing after I got my ZSX. A spot on my left ear canal was sore and there was a cut. I thought it was from my CCA CA4 I use at the gym and those fairly wide bore TRN Black/Red tips with that slightly harder center tube digging into my ear canal. But after checking over the ZSX I noticed the nozzles are quite sharp and it seems they dig into my skin as I insert them.  I’m using Medium sized tips so I guess there’s less material than a large. My CCA A10 and KZ AS12 which seem to use the same metal nozzle are not as sharp and don’t irritate my ear canal at all with Medium tips. I used Starlines yesterday at the gym and being so soft they did provide a bit of relief so I’m not nearly as sore as I was yesterday. Now I have to possibly file down those nozzles so they aren’t so sharp. I don’t mind a bit of danger with sharp metal edges like the ZSN has.......on the outside of my ear.....but not inside my ear.

Anyone else have this problem?


----------



## SoundChoice (Sep 11, 2019)

thebearded1 said:


> I received the ZSX yesterday...  And they are killing my ears.  Specifically, the pinna.  Because this is my first set of IEM, should I expect this pain to subside?  Is there a so-called break-in period as far as ear comfort is concerned?  It's kind of funny, because there is hardly any pressure from the IEM.  It just seems like my ears become sensitive after some time.



My first IEM was the ZS10, non pro, and I could not get a fit. I was sure I was using them wrong. I watched videos, back in those days, there was no Slater posting pictures of rights and wrongs. I invested the GDP of a small Slavic nation trying different tips, certain that I just needed a good seal.

The lesson? Sometimes a piece of plastic just wont fit in your ear.

I almost gave up IEMs for good and got Skull Candy from a 7-Eleven.

Then I discovered the KZ ZST and learned what fit was like.

Things only got better since.

That was $49,000 ago.

Don't give up.


----------



## baskingshark

Assimilator702 said:


> While you’re deciding get the TRN V90. It’s REALLY good. As much as I like the ZSX the V90 seems to be a bit more refined and an improvement in tonality. ZSX = aggressive and in your face with killer bass. TRN V90 = pulled back a bit, more sense of space, not as aggressive with a bit more refinement and improved tonality. And the wildcard big boy .... the  Moondrop  KXXS = laid back a touch more and even MORE refinement and more natural tonality. Bass not as big but delivers the goods when called for.
> 
> If we learn anything from KZ / CCA the C12 will be the less aggressive and more evenly tuned compared to the ZSX. And the ZSX is the best Hybrid KZ has ever released as afar as I’m concerned. The only winner I don’t own from KZ is the ZS7.
> 
> ...



The KZX really lives up to the name of the Terminator. It can damage people's ears LOL.
I guess the only option is to file away the nozzles or use a stiffer silicone eartip?


----------



## BubbaJay

I've had the ZS10 Pro for a few days now and I think there every bit as good as my Tin T2 but also better in some ways.  They are a touch more detailed as they should be with 4 BAs but the bass is quite a bit better than the T2.  Even though I have a few IEMs I'm a headphone guy when I'm at home but I actually like using these at home form time to time over my headphones especially when I'm laying down to go to sleep.  For $50 you really can't go wrong with these.


----------



## SinisterDev

thebearded1 said:


> I received the ZSX yesterday...  And they are killing my ears.  Specifically, the pinna.  Because this is my first set of IEM, should I expect this pain to subside?  Is there a so-called break-in period as far as ear comfort is concerned?  It's kind of funny, because there is hardly any pressure from the IEM.  It just seems like my ears become sensitive after some time.



When you said it was your first set of IEMs, that got me thinking that maybe you have a similar problem that i have. My ears seem to be very picky about what kind of tips I use. I guess the skin in my ear canal is very sensitive. When I picked up my CCA C10's, I tried using the provided tips and they were murder to my ears! After just a few songs, my ear canals were really hurting! Ive come to realize that not all silicone used to make these tips is created equally. Some are more rough and abrasive than others.  I even experienced the same soreness with much smaller, single DD earbuds if the tips were too rough. 
A few years ago, I picked up a pair of V-Moda Zn's and their "Bliss 3.0" tips were the smoothest, silkiest, most comfortable silicone tips I've ever used. I could wear them for hours with little to no soreness. They were my daily drivers up until I started getting into the Chifi hobby. Im still searching for some new tips that are as smooth and comfortable as those. As a matter of fact, if anyone is familiar with a brand of wide bore tips that are very smooth and silky, please let me know lol!  I had picked up some Tennmak Whirlwind turbo tips and they're fairly comfortable, but im sure there must be better out there. I was thinking about maybe trying some Spinfit tips next. Not sure which ones would be best for the KZ/CCA  IEMs. It seems they make quite a few different ones. 

But yeah, Id definitely suggest exploring that avenue first and see if you notice less soreness and discomfort. Im sure if you ask around on here, you'll get some good recommendations. The community has been very helpful. I definitely recommend going with a wide bore tip for the ZSX too.


----------



## SiggyFraud

This just popped up on KZ's Facebook page. I think I've seen these colours before...


----------



## Nimweth

ZSX on the way. It will be interesting to compare it to the CCA C12.


----------



## Podster

citral23 said:


> Cable porn :
> 
> In order of preference, I rate the **** 6 core highest. Extremely supple, so much that it doesn't need ear hooks, which looks and feels nicer imo. Nice color, too.
> 
> ...



Some pretty nice cables there, for me I think the new TRN pewter 16 core is the classiest look on the ZS7's





So after reading about the new ZSX I never had an issue with ZSR fit so like @bedlamite I believe I'll just wait for 11/11 to try a pair out


----------



## Seazer (Sep 11, 2019)

Assimilator702 said:


> While you’re deciding get the TRN V90. It’s REALLY good. As much as I like the ZSX the V90 seems to be a bit more refined and an improvement in tonality. ZSX = aggressive and in your face with killer bass. TRN V90 = pulled back a bit, more sense of space, not as aggressive with a bit more refinement and improved tonality. And the wildcard big boy .... the  Moondrop  KXXS = laid back a touch more and even MORE refinement and more natural tonality. Bass not as big but delivers the goods when called for.
> 
> If we learn anything from KZ / CCA the C12 will be the less aggressive and more evenly tuned compared to the ZSX. And the ZSX is the best Hybrid KZ has ever released as afar as I’m concerned. The only winner I don’t own from KZ is the ZS7.
> 
> ...


How close do the TFZ No 3 sound to the KXXS? Apparently they sound similar but something about the No 3 sounds really harsh and fatiguing to my ears. I get no fatigue from the ZSX despite the forward sound


----------



## TechnoidFR

Nimweth said:


> ZSX on the way. It will be interesting to compare it to the CCA C12.



I have both. It's exactly the same thing

Design and tips are different, but they are absolutely identical


----------



## Aerdowaith (Sep 11, 2019)

TechnoidFR said:


> I have both. It's exactly the same thing
> 
> Design and tips are different, but they are absolutely identical



Now that is really really interesting. Has there been a KZ and CCA pair which were identical before now?


----------



## baskingshark

Aerdowaith said:


> Now that is really really interesting. Have there been a KZ ans CCA pair which were identical before now?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3064#post-15073966

There's this post where KZ made some OEM identically tuned IEMs for 3 companies: 
Tripowin TP10, the CCA A10, and the KBear KB10
Just the brand name is different.


----------



## 1clearhead

baskingshark said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3064#post-15073966
> 
> There's this post where KZ made some OEM identically tuned IEMs for 3 companies:
> Tripowin TP10, the CCA A10, and the KBear KB10
> Just the brand name is different.


That's a triple win for everyone!!!


----------



## baskingshark

1clearhead said:


> That's a triple win for everyone!!!



Well I think KZ is the only winner in this situation as they earn a cut no matter who buys what.
But I feel sad for the other companies that get their sales and customer base diluted.
As for consumers, just go to AE and search for the cheapest of the 3 to purchase LOL.


----------



## courierdriver

Seazer said:


> How close do the TFZ No 3 sound to the KXXS? Apparently they sound similar but something about the No 3 sounds really harsh and fatiguing to my ears. I get no fatigue from the ZSX despite the forward sound


I'm the opposite. I find my No.3 too laid back with not enough detail for me. It's a great basshead iem for sure, but it's kinda a one trick pony imho.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> I am pretty happy with my BT20 currently, it pairs with the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro very well with no issues.





DynamicEars said:


> thanks for this, alright thats what i need to know, I dont need louder sound from BT20 as i never past around 90% volume. I just upgrade when my old BT20 down someday, or any significant upgrade with new model.



so my 2 pin BT20S has just arrived. testing it with the ZS10 Pro, and it has a really low noise/hiss, while on the old BT20 there are no/negligible hiss. both sound similar, although (might be because of the hiss too) the newer BT20S is slightly more recessed in mids, but it might be totally subjective. someone with measuring rig might give a better answer. 

i ended up using the BT20S with the Kanas, and the older BT20 with my EM2


----------



## Seazer

courierdriver said:


> I'm the opposite. I find my No.3 too laid back with not enough detail for me. It's a great basshead iem for sure, but it's kinda a one trick pony imho.


I don't think its harsh because it has a lot of detail, it literally just has a harsh tone in the upper midrange that is fatiguing. It's treble is laid back, it is just harsh or sibiliant or something like that, it has nothing to do with resolution or treble forwardness. Like I said the KZ ZSX are not fatiguing to me, even though they have more detail and more forward treble.


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> so my 2 pin BT20S has just arrived. testing it with the ZS10 Pro, and it has a really low noise/hiss, while on the old BT20 there are no/negligible hiss. both sound similar, although (might be because of the hiss too) the newer BT20S is slightly more recessed in mids, but it might be totally subjective. someone with measuring rig might give a better answer.
> 
> i ended up using the BT20S with the Kanas, and the older BT20 with my EM2



The best sounding bluetooth cable that I have tried so far is the KZ new aptxHD, but I don't like their cable design.


----------



## Seazer

chinmie said:


> so my 2 pin BT20S has just arrived. testing it with the ZS10 Pro, and it has a really low noise/hiss, while on the old BT20 there are no/negligible hiss. both sound similar, although (might be because of the hiss too) the newer BT20S is slightly more recessed in mids, but it might be totally subjective. someone with measuring rig might give a better answer.
> 
> i ended up using the BT20S with the Kanas, and the older BT20 with my EM2



That sucks because aptx really helps with audio visual syncing. It probably has a hiss because it is more powerful, to it's fault.


----------



## Seazer

voicemaster said:


> The best sounding bluetooth cable that I have tried so far is the KZ new aptxHD, but I don't like their cable design.


Yeah if it has a cable around the neck, it's not worth it, you might as well just get an es100 and a shorter cable if you want. Things like the bt20s are so cool because it is basically true wireless


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> The best sounding bluetooth cable that I have tried so far is the KZ new aptxHD, but I don't like their cable design.



is it the neckband ones? i like that form because it usually can connect to two device at the same time, but the added cables (compared to the BT20s) means a discomfort for me, and at that rate i would prefer just go with the ES100 solution instead 

i choose the BT20s mainly because of convenience and mobility


----------



## chinmie

Seazer said:


> That sucks because aptx really helps with audio visual syncing. It probably has a hiss because it is more powerful, to it's fault.



yes, although to be fair i haven't run into trouble of latency with the older BT20..but i only watch YouTube or Netflix with it, never play games. 

at least now we know that we got option on which to choose based on the amp power requirement for our available IEMs


----------



## TechnoidFR

Aerdowaith said:


> Now that is really really interesting. Has there been a KZ and CCA pair which were identical before now?



It's the first time where they tune exactly the same. usually they have same hardware but slightly different tuning ( CCA C16/KZ AS16 l KZ ZS7 / CCA C10 ) KZ ZS10 PRO / KZ ZS10 l KZ ZSN PRO / CCA CA4)



baskingshark said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3064#post-15073966
> 
> There's this post where KZ made some OEM identically tuned IEMs for 3 companies:
> Tripowin TP10, the CCA A10, and the KBear KB10
> Just the brand name is different.



And the tripowin have bad notes, CCA it's good. It's fun because it's exactly the same thing. Just the faceplate which is different, but because the brand is new, they are trash.


----------



## TechnoidFR

voicemaster said:


> The best sounding bluetooth cable that I have tried so far is the KZ new aptxHD, but I don't like their cable design.



I hate most of neckband Bluetooth cable. They use Qualcomm dac which are crappy. Hiss ( KZ 5.0 have a horrible hiss) , electronic noise, dac quality just correct. I prefer clearly TRN BT20. Bt20S is worst than BT20 on this point too.

I wait macaw cable with a real same integration ( Maxim dac, like in some oppo/Samsung smartphone )


----------



## Nimweth

TechnoidFR said:


> I have both. It's exactly the same thing
> 
> Design and tips are different, but they are absolutely identical


So the same thing as the CCAA10 and KBEAR KB10?


----------



## bedlamite

Those TRN BT20s are the real deal, I have a pair of the older 20 and the newer 20s and both work great. I thought about getting KZ's BT cable for my ZS10 Pro but I've heard they don't work so well? Plus cables, pfft. 

Anyway the KZs go on the BT20 while my iBasso IT03 goes on the 20s, very happy with their performance.


----------



## CrazyDelta

About to order the KZ ZSX from their official Aliexpress store. First time ordering from there for UK. Anyone had any issues?
Also, since I'm hearing a lot about cables - is there something specifically recommended over the default cable for genuine improvement?
Thanks.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 12, 2019)

CrazyDelta said:


> About to order the KZ ZSX from their official Aliexpress store. First time ordering from there for UK. Anyone had any issues?
> Also, since I'm hearing a lot about cables - is there something specifically recommended over the default cable for genuine improvement?
> Thanks.



We order many things from Aliexpress.  We use the NiceHCK the  most ... good service and fast shipping.  We do use other stores as well.  This is kind of like using Amazon third party sellers. 

If you "follow" the store you will see the fans exclusive discount... price will be around $39

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104902245.html

Something that I ordered last week is already in the country and I expect I will receive it tomorrow or Saturday.


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 12, 2019)

CrazyDelta said:


> About to order the KZ ZSX from their official Aliexpress store. First time ordering from there for UK. Anyone had any issues?
> Also, since I'm hearing a lot about cables - is there something specifically recommended over the default cable for genuine improvement?
> Thanks.






mbwilson111 said:


> We order many things from Aliexpress.  We use the NiceHCK the  most ... good service and fast shipping.  We do use other stores as well.  This is kind of like using Amazon third party sellers.
> 
> If you "follow" the store you will see the fans exclusive discount... price will be around $39
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104902245.html



Just want to add @CrazyDelta that if u use the aliexpress phone app, the prices are usually cheaper than the desktop version. Aliexpress is very safe IMHO, they will keep the money u paid in escrow until the buyer confirms a satisfactory product, then they will release the money to seller. I find it safer than some 3rd party ebay sellers actually.
But in general, I won't purchase from aliexpress sellers that are very new (with zero reviews) or have < 95% rating.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 12, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Just want to add @CrazyDelta that if u use the aliexpress phone app, the prices are usually cheaper than the desktop version. Aliexpress is very safe IMHO, they will keep the money u paid in escrow until the buyer confirms a satisfactory product, then they will release the money to seller. I find it safer than some 3rd party ebay sellers actually.
> But in general, I won't purchase from aliexpress sellers that are very new (with zero reviews) or have < 95% rating.



Yes, in the case of this one with the fan discount, the mobile app will take off another pound or so.... so not a deal breaker if you don't want the app.

@CrazyDelta  I should add that some stores take paypal now instead of alipay if that makes a difference for you.  NiceHCK does not.    Not sure about some of the others that are selling this particular product.  Now that my info is with Ali I just use that payment method anyway.


----------



## CrazyDelta

mbwilson111 said:


> Yes, in the case of this one with the fan discount, the mobile app will take off another pound or so.... so not a deal breaker if you don't want the app.
> 
> @CrazyDelta  I should add that some stores take paypal now instead of alipay if that makes a difference for you.  NiceHCK does not.    Not sure about some of the others that are selling this particular product.  Now that my info is with Ali I just use that payment method anyway.



Great thanks for explaining. I've been looking at the official store - https://kziems.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
If that is in fact official KZ store. The price is the lowest there it seems with discount and I can pay by Paypal.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 12, 2019)

CrazyDelta said:


> Great thanks for explaining. I've been looking at the official store - https://kziems.aliexpress.com/store/1358152
> If that is in fact official KZ store. The price is the lowest there it seems with discount and I can pay by Paypal.



That one is showing me $44.  NiceHCK is $39 with the fan discount  but maybe using paypal is worth the extra for you.  Especially if you have not yet had your card confirmed by Aliexpress which for me took a bit of time.  It was annoying.

You should get a $3 new user coupon and a $1 off of $39 from the seller.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Nimweth said:


> So the same thing as the CCAA10 and KBEAR KB10?



For the sound yes

For tips and design no. They are different


----------



## TechnoidFR

bedlamite said:


> Those TRN BT20s are the real deal, I have a pair of the older 20 and the newer 20s and both work great. I thought about getting KZ's BT cable for my ZS10 Pro but I've heard they don't work so well? Plus cables, pfft.
> 
> Anyway the KZs go on the BT20 while my iBasso IT03 goes on the 20s, very happy with their performance.



Bt20s , have more hiss, lost power off sync feature and Qualcomm soc add nothing. Just the stereo plus feature


----------



## lgcubana

Just got in the YxxYxx KZ 8 Core Silver Copper Mixed Cable, from Amazon, for my KZ ZS4
Made by KZ for (among other models) the ZS4... *NOT!!!*
_*(it does work, in unmolested form. But barely gets a perch)*_



 

After surgery


 

I think I may have voided my return options


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> Just got in the YxxYxx KZ 8 Core Silver Copper Mixed Cable, from Amazon, for my KZ ZS4
> Made by KZ for (among other models) the ZS4... *NOT!!!*
> _*(it does work, in unmolested form. But barely gets a perch)*_
> 
> ...



Is that cable Paragraph A or Paragraph B? They look very similar, and are difficult to tell apart on those upgrade cables with the round knurled aluminum ends.

If it’s Paragraph B, then that would explain why it didn’t fit quite right.

In any case, your surgery mod looks great! Nice job


----------



## lgcubana (Sep 12, 2019)

Slater said:


> Is that cable Paragraph A or Paragraph B? They look very similar, and are difficult to tell apart on those upgrade cables with the round knurled aluminum ends.
> 
> If it’s Paragraph B, then that would explain why it didn’t fit quite right.
> 
> In any case, your surgery mod looks great! Nice job


I should've mentioned this in my post: Paragraph A. Just checked the box, it has an "A" sticker on it


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> I should've mentioned this in my post: Paragraph A. Just checked the box, it has an "A" sticker on it



Must just be because of the curvy shape of the ZS3/ZS4 shell.

Those Paragraph A upgrade cables were originally designed for the ZS5/ZS6/ZS7, which have a flat shell. So those aluminum-ended upgrade cables fit those shells flush. The ZS3/ZS4 also use Paragraph A, bit the shells are rounded and curvy due to the ergonomic design.

Anyways, I’m glad you got it all sorted out!


----------



## Papa253 (Sep 12, 2019)

Ok here it is 1 day early.
Kz ZSX is indeed good but the Audiosense T800 has better instrument separation, soundstage and a different kind of detail, meaning that the it's there but the quality is more natural and and meaningful on t800.

But the biggest down fall of the kz xxx, for me was comfort. The angle of the nozzle was such that it felt like it was piercing my ear canal. I tried foam and several other different types of tips the problem still persisted so I have to return them.

I will say this, had I purchased the KZ ZSN as the very first iem on my Hifi Journey I may have stopped there and been content.
But I didn't and I'm grateful I didn't. Because I would never have known what good item's truly sound like.


----------



## shockdoc

Papa253 said:


> Ok here it is 1 day early.
> Kz ZSX is indeed good but the Audiosense T800 has better instrument separation, soundstage and a different kind of detail, meaning that the it's there but the quality is more natural and and meaningful on t800.
> 
> But the biggest down fall for me was comfort. The angle of the nozzle was such that it felt like it was piercing my ear canal. I tried foam and several other different types of tips the problem still persisted so I have to return them.
> ...



I would HOPE the Audiosense t800 is better since it's 5 times the cost.


----------



## Podster (Sep 12, 2019)

shockdoc said:


> I would HOPE the Audiosense t800 is better since it's 5 times the cost.



LOL, wait till he tries a $1K plus CA

So I'm kind of Slumdog Audiophiling this afternoon at less than $69 (Complete setup)





Of course it does not sound near as detailed as my Opus #1 and HQ12's


----------



## Aerdowaith

Got my ZSX today! Really liking them so far. Initially I was underwhelmed, found them uncomfortable and just not sounding as good as I'd expected. After some experimentation I realized I'd been inserting them into my ear too far. 

Coming from a ZS 4, I was not used to the more shaped molded shells which these have, so I assumed they were designed to fit down flush against the ear almost like a custom molded pair would, obviously w/o quite the perfect fit, but in a similar way. Definitely a noob mistake! After pulling them out and inserting them properly, comfort is good and the sound opened way up and is now amazing, so if anyone else is having pain or the sound is muddy, maybe try playing around with the fit.

Main reason for my post though is I remember a couple people were disappointed with the light silver color of the face plate - based on the leaks they had been hoping for a darker colored plate. Turns out you get that if you go with the Cyan option! I honestly couldn't tell what they would look like from the photos on Ali - hard to tell if they were dark or if it was just weird photo-shop effects. 

I'm uploading some glam shots since I haven't seen any others of the Cyan model online so far and I think it looks quite nice. Please forgive the lint. Wanted the tips on to give a white reference.


----------



## thebearded1

Aerdowaith said:


> Got my ZSX today! Really liking them so far. Initially I was underwhelmed, found them uncomfortable and just not sounding as good as I'd expected. After some experimentation I realized I'd been inserting them into my ear too far.
> 
> Coming from a ZS 4, I was not used to the more shaped molded shells which these have, so I assumed they were designed to fit down flush against the ear almost like a custom molded pair would, obviously w/o quite the perfect fit, but in a similar way. Definitely a noob mistake! After pulling them out and inserting them properly, comfort is good and the sound opened way up and is now amazing, so if anyone else is having pain or the sound is muddy, maybe try playing around with the fit.
> 
> ...


I have the black ZSX's...  The cyan look much better in your pics than what I saw on line.  oh well...  :0)


----------



## vsha

do the black plastic parts on the ZSX's cable (connector, mic, etc) feel soft, rubberized, or different in any way from what you would expect from your regular black plastic?


----------



## Papa253

Podster said:


> LOL, wait till he tries a $1K plus CA
> 
> So I'm kind of Slumdog Audiophiling this afternoon at less than $69 (Complete setup)
> 
> ...


I have and didn't like then.  So there! Lol


----------



## Seazer (Sep 13, 2019)

CrazyDelta said:


> About to order the KZ ZSX from their official Aliexpress store. First time ordering from there for UK. Anyone had any issues?
> Also, since I'm hearing a lot about cables - is there something specifically recommended over the default cable for genuine improvement?
> Thanks.



I've never had issues with AliExpress besides the expected longer wait. As far as cables should improvement is negligible but you can find cables that look better, tangle less, and have more comfortable hooks. Yxxyxx and Nicehck both sell cheap and excellent cables.


----------



## steviewonderbread

Ended up returning my ZSX, I was okay with the sound (a more refined/natural ZS10P) but I cannot deal with the fit. Tried just about every combination of size and material of tips, just not one made for me because of that plastic bump up top. On to the next Pokemon...


----------



## Podster

Papa253 said:


> I have and didn't like then.  So there! Lol



Indeed and that's what makes this hobby so much fun


----------



## Aerdowaith

thebearded1 said:


> I have the black ZSX's...  The cyan look much better in your pics than what I saw on line.  oh well...  :0)


Their pictures are terrible! I was hesitant too, and when they messaged me to say the Cyan were shipping later and they could send the black if I wanted I almost went for it.

They sound the same though so no real loss or gain.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm happy with my purple/brushed silver ZSX


----------



## Aerdowaith

vsha said:


> do the black plastic parts on the ZSX's cable (connector, mic, etc) feel soft, rubberized, or different in any way from what you would expect from your regular black plastic?



It's slightly rubbery/plient, but only minimally. Personally I found the corners a tad pokey (I run my cable inside my shirt most of the time to reduce snagging as I walk around) so I just cut the corners off with a sharp knife to round them a bit and it worked well for me. Material is easy to cut.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

steviewonderbread said:


> Ended up returning my ZSX, I was okay with the sound (a more refined/natural ZS10P) but I cannot deal with the fit. Tried just about every combination of size and material of tips, just not one made for me because of that plastic bump up top. On to the next Pokemon...


C12 apparently is same-y sound in a more comfortable shell...I have neither so only regurgitating what I have heard/seen.


----------



## steviewonderbread (Sep 12, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> C12 apparently is same-y sound in a more comfortable shell...I have neither so only regurgitating what I have heard/seen.


Hmm, I avoided the C12 because some pics made the shells look absolutely massive:





Maybe it's just a weird photo perspective? Are they close in size to the C10?


----------



## TechnoidFR (Sep 12, 2019)

steviewonderbread said:


> Hmm, I avoided the C12 because some pics made the shells look absolutely massive:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 

 




The CCA C12 take the same design that CA4

ZSX are the same than zs10 pro with big faceplate


----------



## jant71

HungryPanda said:


> I'm happy with my purple/brushed silver ZSX



The other two have the gold nozzles right? Like the sticking with the silver inside and out better. Not sure why the cyan is a darker gray than the silver of the other two. Would have looked better with silvery nozzles and lighter gray and cyan in between. Any good pics of the purple cause that has an issue to me as well. Looks too much like pink instead of purple but that may be the photos.


----------



## voicemaster

steviewonderbread said:


> Ended up returning my ZSX, I was okay with the sound (a more refined/natural ZS10P) but I cannot deal with the fit. Tried just about every combination of size and material of tips, just not one made for me because of that plastic bump up top. On to the next Pokemon...



Maybe try the cca c12 as it has a more straight forward shell ala zsn/zs10pro.


----------



## Slater

Papa253 said:


> Kz ZSX is indeed good but the Audiosense T800 has better instrument separation, soundstage and a different kind of detail, meaning that the it's there but the quality is more natural and and meaningful on t800.
> 
> But the biggest down fall for me was comfort. The angle of the nozzle was such that it felt like it was piercing my ear canal.



The biggest downfall of which one? The T800 or the ZSX?


----------



## SinisterDev

Hrrm. The time has finally come where I can order one of these new IEMs. I really had my heart set on the ZSX, but im weary about those humps on the back. Since several people have already mentioned those causing discomfort. Its kinda making me lean towards the CCA C12. I really like how they look too and they don't have that hump. Has anyone gotten to compare the C12 with the ZSX? Do they have identical components, just tuned slightly different? Ive been looking around for a direct comparison between the two. I really like my C10's, but i like the ZS10 Pro more, which is why im unsure as to which one to go with now. Ive never worn any IEMs with a hump on the back like the ZSX, so im not sure what to expect. Could be totally fine. Could be really uncomfortable... If i was ordering off Amazon, it wouldn't be a big deal, because they'd arrive in 1-2 days and of i dont like em i could send em back quick for a refund. But the prices are so much better on Aliexpress right now. Id hate to wait several weeks for a new IEM to come in, just to find that they're really uncomfortable. And then have to send them all the way back to China. Ive never had to do a return on Ali yet. Not sure what to expect if such a problem occurred. 
Also, I know some people recommended the TRN v90 over either the CCA or KZ, but idk, something about the design really doesn't appeal to me.


----------



## Papa253

Slater said:


> The biggest downfall of which one? The T800 or the ZSX?


I'm sorry I have corrected original post.

It's the kz ZSX


----------



## Slater

SinisterDev said:


> Id hate to wait several weeks for a new IEM to come in, just to find that they're really uncomfortable. And then have to send them all the way back to China. Ive never had to do a return on Ali yet. Not sure what to expect if such a problem occurred.



If you’re thinking you would send them back, then just buy from Amazon. Because to ship it back to China is going to cost almost as much as you paid for the earphone.

That’s not the fault of Aliexpress though; it’s the postal service and trade/tariff issues.


----------



## courierdriver

BubbaJay said:


> I've had the ZS10 Pro for a few days now and I think there every bit as good as my Tin T2 but also better in some ways.  They are a touch more detailed as they should be with 4 BAs but the bass is quite a bit better than the T2.  Even though I have a few IEMs I'm a headphone guy when I'm at home but I actually like using these at home form time to time over my headphones especially when I'm laying down to go to sleep.  For $50 you really can't go wrong with these.


ZS10 PRO really is a great sounding all rounder. It has been my first foray into KZ gear, and I really enjoy this set especially for it's price. Honestly, every time I listen to them I can't believe they are less than $50. I enjoy them alot, and I constantly rec them to people who are looking for a fun, detailed and energetic sound a fairly inexpensive price.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 12, 2019)

Aerdowaith said:


> Got my ZSX today! Really liking them so far. Initially I was underwhelmed, found them uncomfortable and just not sounding as good as I'd expected. After some experimentation I realized I'd been inserting them into my ear too far.
> 
> Coming from a ZS 4, I was not used to the more shaped molded shells which these have, so I assumed they were designed to fit down flush against the ear almost like a custom molded pair would, obviously w/o quite the perfect fit, but in a similar way. Definitely a noob mistake! After pulling them out and inserting them properly, comfort is good and the sound opened way up and is now amazing, so if anyone else is having pain or the sound is muddy, maybe try playing around with the fit.
> 
> ...


Damn I got the black ones because they shipped faster. Admittedly i did want a blue shell, i had no idea about the darker metal! I don't think the stock lighter metal looks bad, but the darker one of yours looks better imo. I might make use of the easy Amazon return policy to swap it lol

They still look great though, here's a beauty shot of mine


----------



## lucasbrea

courierdriver said:


> ZS10 PRO really is a great sounding all rounder. It has been my first foray into KZ gear, and I really enjoy this set especially for it's price. Honestly, every time I listen to them I can't believe they are less than $50. I enjoy them alot, and I constantly rec them to people who are looking for a fun, detailed and energetic sound a fairly inexpensive price.


Agree, i just got them and they sound amazing!!  . People complaining about metalic treble are not using the righ tips.


----------



## Keputs

CrazyDelta said:


> About to order the KZ ZSX from their official Aliexpress store. First time ordering from there for UK. Anyone had any issues?
> Also, since I'm hearing a lot about cables - is there something specifically recommended over the default cable for genuine improvement?
> Thanks.


----------



## Keputs

I got these from shopee. Official KZ from China. I don't care about the legitimacy of that Gold silver whatever coz it fits the ZSX properly with good texture and it doesn't affect the sound in any negative way. And the ZSX is a winner in my book.


----------



## lucasbrea

Any buy from Alliexpres is a safe buy from my experience, and you can use the stock cable is fine.


----------



## courierdriver

lucasbrea said:


> Agree, i just got them and they sound amazing!!  . People complaining about metalic treble are not using the righ tips.


You may be right, but then again, everyone perceives sound differently. Personally, I prefer foam tips to silicones. I find that, generally speaking and to my ears; silicones make my ear canals sweaty, don't seal well, make the bass light or less defined, and cause the treble to become unnatural and bright. I prefer foams...specifically Newbee foams. They are memory foam tips; but unlike others like Comply, they are a soft and smooth material that isn't scratchy in the ear like other foams. They are soft like a silicone tip, and have a nice wide bore to let the sound come through; but are comfortable and don't make my ears sweat. Bass comes through with impact and definition, yet mids and highs aren't lost. Comfort is sublime...I can listen to all my iems for hours without any discomfort or ear sweats. Absolutely love these tips. They also make silicones, if you want; they even have a combo pack that gives you 3 sets of foams and 3 sets of silicones for less than $10 so you can find your best fit. Definitely worth checking them out.


----------



## DynamicEars

lucasbrea said:


> Agree, i just got them and they sound amazing!!  . People complaining about metalic treble are not using the righ tips.



They are good but indeed sounds metallic / steely. Its not about tips, its about their BA character. Not only if compare to hogher tier midfi or even TOTL iems but some budget iems have their tonal much better, like tinaudio t2, bqeyz kb100, etc.

I have almost all good eartips including spiral dots, sedna earfit, final audio e, comply, spinfit, radius deep mount, ortofon, acoustune, and bunches of cheap eartips


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 13, 2019)

lucasbrea said:


> Agree, i just got them and they sound amazing!!  . People complaining about metalic treble are not using the righ tips.


If people are using the included eartips on the ZSX and are still hearing a metallic sound to their music that other earphones don't have (like the KB100, T2, T180, etc.) It's because KZ still doesn't know how to make earphones properly.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Seazer said:


> They still look great though, here's a beauty shot of mine


The ZSX is a HOTTIE! Is that the stock cable?


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZSX is a HOTTIE! Is that the stock cable?



LOL no that's not the stock cable


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZSX is a HOTTIE! Is that the stock cable?





voicemaster said:


> LOL no that's not the stock cable



Haha personally i will be too ashamed to put up photos of KZs with the KZ stock cables on. I always change out the KZ cables stat the moment I get a KZ.

On a serious note, do any of u guys who have KZ cables find the KZ cables with mic degrades the sound quality a bit? I know it's convenient for calls and such though.


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> Haha personally i will be too ashamed to put up photos of KZs with the KZ stock cables on. I always change out the KZ cables stat the moment I get a KZ.
> 
> On a serious note, do any of u guys who have KZ cables find the KZ cables with mic degrades the sound quality a bit? I know it's convenient for calls and such though.



I prefer no mic at all for my iem cable. I use my AKG iem that came from samsung galaxy note 9 for phone call.


----------



## Seazer

SinisterDev said:


> Hrrm. The time has finally come where I can order one of these new IEMs. I really had my heart set on the ZSX, but im weary about those humps on the back. Since several people have already mentioned those causing discomfort. Its kinda making me lean towards the CCA C12. I really like how they look too and they don't have that hump. Has anyone gotten to compare the C12 with the ZSX? Do they have identical components, just tuned slightly different? Ive been looking around for a direct comparison between the two. I really like my C10's, but i like the ZS10 Pro more, which is why im unsure as to which one to go with now. Ive never worn any IEMs with a hump on the back like the ZSX, so im not sure what to expect. Could be totally fine. Could be really uncomfortable... If i was ordering off Amazon, it wouldn't be a big deal, because they'd arrive in 1-2 days and of i dont like em i could send em back quick for a refund. But the prices are so much better on Aliexpress right now. Id hate to wait several weeks for a new IEM to come in, just to find that they're really uncomfortable. And then have to send them all the way back to China. Ive never had to do a return on Ali yet. Not sure what to expect if such a problem occurred.
> Also, I know some people recommended the TRN v90 over either the CCA or KZ, but idk, something about the design really doesn't appeal to me.


For me the plastic bump either doesnt touch my ear at all with big foam tips, or rests lightly above my ear holenif it's in further with silicone tips. I don't really know what part about them isbso uncomfortable for people. I thought the zs10 pro were more uncomfortable, and didn't stay in my ear as well.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

baskingshark said:


> I always change out the KZ cables stat the moment I get a KZ.


Can you make a list of the cables you like for each KZ for all of us?


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Can you make a list of the cables you like for each KZ for all of us?



I only use NICEHCK 8 core copper cables (the ones costing less than 10 bucks from Aliexpress) with my KZs.
In general the KZs are a bit on the brighter side, so I find the copper tames the highs a bit (I know not everyone believes in cables making a difference to sound though). But these 8 core cables feel much nicer to the touch than the KZs for sure.

What cables do u use with your vast stable of pokemon KZs @LaughMoreDaily ?


----------



## voicemaster

Seazer said:


> For me the plastic bump either doesnt touch my ear at all with big foam tips, or rests lightly above my ear holenif it's in further with silicone tips. I don't really know what part about them isbso uncomfortable for people. I thought the zs10 pro were more uncomfortable, and didn't stay in my ear as well.



Well not every ears created equal lol. My wife can't even use 100% over the ear type iem, but she can wear something like apple airpods just fine. For me, I can't use airpods as even if I move even a slightest, the seal will break and the sound become crappy (well it is crappy to begin with anyway).


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 13, 2019)

steviewonderbread said:


> Ended up returning my ZSX, I was okay with the sound (a more refined/natural ZS10P) but I cannot deal with the fit. Tried just about every combination of size and material of tips, just not one made for me because of that plastic bump up top. On to the next Pokemon...


Well? as I mentioned before, the CCA big boss chatted with me and told me that C12 is overall better than the ZSX in "fit" and "sound". But, I will only find that out when I receive the ZSX this week and compare them to my awesome C12.

Stay tuned...


----------



## courierdriver

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If people are using the included eartips on the ZSX and are still hearing a metallic sound to their music that other earphones don't have (like the KB100, T2, T180, etc.) It's because KZ still doesn't know how to make earphones properly.


I'm a bit confused by your statement here. People swap tips (and cables) all the time, even on other iems (not KZ), and some cost even more than the most expensive KZ or CCA. How does using the supplied tips equate to KZ not being able to make earphones properly? I've yet to have any of my earphones live up to their full potential, by just using the stock supplied tips. If that were the case, I guess I should've just chucked my KPE, TFZ No.3, NX7 and ZS10 PRO in the trash the minute I got them??! Tips and fit is what can make or break an iem. Never have the stock tips been best for ANY iem I've bought. To suggest that if a set doesn't sound good with the stock tips, then the manufacturer must not know how to properly make an iem, is ridiculous! Tips can make a HUGE difference in the SQ in any iem. To suggest that KZ can't make a proper earphone based on the supplied tips, is a stretch dude.


----------



## Seazer

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Can you make a list of the cables you like for each KZ for all of us?



This is the cable used in that picture i posted

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32957...d=5963amp-SwhPSnGv_1fa20XTYCb5kg1568352543707


----------



## Seazer

voicemaster said:


> Well not every ears created equal lol. My wife can't even use 100% over the ear type iem, but she can wear something like apple airpods just fine. For me, I can't use airpods as even if I move even a slightest, the seal will break and the sound become ****ty (well it is ****ty to begin with anyway).



Airpods don't even really seal though lol. Imo opinion the old apple earpods before they changed the shape was more comfortable. These ones


----------



## TechnoidFR

[


lucasbrea said:


> Agree, i just got them and they sound amazing!!  . People complaining about metalic treble are not using the righ tips.



But, it's not a stock feedback. And tips stay a personal choice because we don't have the same reaction with tips

Oh just for some who are interested by zsx/C12
Some discount on lucky lz with my name
https://twitter.com/Chifi_Fr/status/1166356920648830977?s=19


----------



## Keputs (Sep 13, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZSX is a HOTTIE! Is that the stock cable?



Much better than the stock. An official KZ cable upgrade.


----------



## TechnoidFR

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The ZSX is a HOTTIE! Is that the stock cable?



No we have the standard cable like all lz/CCA


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 21, 2020)

I Turn into a Telescope.


----------



## fluteloop

Aerdowaith said:


> It's slightly rubbery/plient, but only minimally. Personally I found the corners a tad pokey (I run my cable inside my shirt most of the time to reduce snagging as I walk around) so I just cut the corners off with a sharp knife to round them a bit and it worked well for me. Material is easy to cut.




I did the same, I round off the hard edges...  they like to catch on 'everything' don't they...


----------



## baskingshark

fluteloop said:


> do they harden under UV light like the Kz's ?  or as quickly if so  ?



I have 6 pairs of the 8 Core Nicehck cables (ranging from 6 months to a year old), and half of these cables were used under the sun, the other half at home, both batches feel the same to me.
I never used my KZ cables after the initial sound check when they first arrived, so I'm not aware if the KZ cables have this hardening issue?


----------



## fluteloop (Feb 21, 2020)

True wireless. Not relayed stereo', that's the ticket.


----------



## bedlamite

I don't dick around with cables for outdoor usage anymore. It's 2019, BT works well enough for commuting purposes. Slap on those TRN BT adaptors onto my ZS10Ps and I'm good to go.


----------



## Seazer

fluteloop said:


> True wireless Stereo? like real stereo or relayed stereo?>


The bt20s is like true wireless earbuds like airpods and Galaxy buds, it just turns your iem into one with Bluetooth earhooks


----------



## mbwilson111

baskingshark said:


> I only use NICEHCK 8 core copper cables (the ones costing less than 10 bucks from Aliexpress) with my KZs.
> In general the KZs are a bit on the brighter side, so I find the copper tames the highs a bit (I know not everyone believes in cables making a difference to sound though). But these 8 core cables feel much nicer to the touch than the KZs for sure



That NiceHCK 8 core is the cable I am using with my most expensive IEM.  The IMR Zenith



1clearhead said:


> Well? as I mentioned before, the CCA big boss chatted with me and told me that C12 is overall better than the ZSX in "fit" and "sound". But, I will only find that out when I receive the ZSX this week and compare them to my awesome C12.
> 
> Stay tuned...



I am happy that you are still calling the C12 awesome  Mine are in the country and will hopefully be delivered tomorrow.... otherwise I will have to wait until Monday.


----------



## DynamicEars

1clearhead said:


> Well? as I mentioned before, the CCA big boss chatted with me and told me that C12 is overall better than the ZSX in "fit" and "sound". But, I will only find that out when I receive the ZSX this week and compare them to my awesome C12.
> 
> Stay tuned...



Since likely you know well the cca big boss, so are they actually sister company to KZ? Or just pure another company that are competitor to KZ? Or what? Just curious..


----------



## kailashrs

Aerdowaith said:


> Got my ZSX today! Really liking them so far. Initially I was underwhelmed, found them uncomfortable and just not sounding as good as I'd expected. After some experimentation I realized I'd been inserting them into my ear too far.
> 
> Coming from a ZS 4, I was not used to the more shaped molded shells which these have, so I assumed they were designed to fit down flush against the ear almost like a custom molded pair would, obviously w/o quite the perfect fit, but in a similar way. Definitely a noob mistake! After pulling them out and inserting them properly, comfort is good and the sound opened way up and is now amazing, so if anyone else is having pain or the sound is muddy, maybe try playing around with the fit.
> 
> ...



Good thing I ordered the cyan variant then


----------



## Nimweth

ZSX arrived today. Out of the box, excellent sound. Bass: superb. Mids: very impressive. Treble: clean, detailed, no harshness. Soundstage: humongous! More to come plus comparison to C12 when that comes.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> ZSX arrived today. Out of the box, excellent sound. Bass: superb. Mids: very impressive. Treble: clean, detailed, no harshness. Soundstage: humongous! More to come plus comparison to C12 when that comes.



Ooh I can't wait for 11/11 After market KZ cable choice currently for me is the TRN 16 Core, absolutely love the dark pewter gray on the blue ZS7's


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Ooh I can't wait for 11/11 After market KZ cable choice currently for me is the TRN 16 Core, absolutely love the dark pewter gray on the blue ZS7's


Ha ha! That's the exact cable I'm using, it looks great with the cyan and grey ZSX, it's very comfortable and sounds great too.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> Ha ha! That's the exact cable I'm using, it looks great with the cyan and grey ZSX, it's very comfortable and sounds great too.



Yes I've noticed the weave a little more loose than the YY and NICE versions but I have all three and they pretty much sound identical, after seeing some of MB's collection I've really been color coordinating of late


----------



## Nimweth (Sep 13, 2019)

Podster said:


> Yes I've noticed the weave a little more loose than the YY and NICE versions but I have all three and they pretty much sound identical, after seeing some of MB's collection I've really been color coordinating of late


I have been doing the same. I have a very nice blue and silver cable for my ZS7 and was using the TRN cable with the gunmetal BLON BL-03.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> I have been doing the same. I have a very nice blue and silver cable for my ZS7 and was using the TRN cable with the gunmetal BLON BL-03.



You mean a nice blue like on my IDUN's That Pewter also looks good on the old P-1's





I have had to cool it on cables though as they have now exceeded my iem count LOL Guess I'm going to have to buy more iem's


----------



## archdawg (Sep 13, 2019)

Podster said:


> Ooh I can't wait for 11/11 After market KZ cable choice currently for me is the TRN 16 Core, absolutely love the dark pewter gray on the blue ZS7's





Nimweth said:


> I have been doing the same. I have a very nice blue and silver cable for my ZS7 and was using the TRN cable with the gunmetal BLON BL-03.


I really like those TRN cables for their conductivity, looks and flexibility and ended up with 6 of them, lol ... 3 balanced (0.75, 0.78, MMCX) and 3 more with 3.5mm jacks.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> You mean a nice blue like on my IDUN's That Pewter also looks good on the old P-1's
> 
> 
> 
> I have had to cool it on cables though as they have now exceeded my iem count LOL Guess I'm going to have to buy more iem's


That blue cable looks just like mine. It's from a banned brand. I'm going to need a gold coloured cable to go with my gold C12 when it gets here!


----------



## baskingshark

Nimweth said:


> ZSX arrived today. Out of the box, excellent sound. Bass: superb. Mids: very impressive. Treble: clean, detailed, no harshness. Soundstage: humongous! More to come plus comparison to C12 when that comes.



Could u compare the ZSX with the ZS10 Pro too? TIA!


----------



## Podster

archdawg said:


> I really like those TRN cables for their conductivity, looks and flexibility and ended up with 6 of them, lol ... 3 balanced (0.75, 0.78, MMCX) and 3 more with 3.5mm jacks.



It's nice to know I'm not the only one with issues Arch Exactly @Nimweth


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> Could u compare the ZSX with the ZS10 Pro too? TIA!


Yes, I will do that although I will say that even after a couple of hours burn in the ZSX are way better than the ZS10 pro.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> It's nice to know I'm not the only one with issues Arch Exactly @Nimweth


It's a disease. I'm taking medication lol.


----------



## TechnoidFR

fluteloop said:


> True wireless Stereo? like real stereo or relayed stereo?>



Stereo plus Qualcomm feature. It's apparently functional but I don't know if it's active, I never saw this function. Normally we must see the both bt20s connected to the smartphone.


----------



## TechnoidFR

baskingshark said:


> Could u compare the ZSX with the ZS10 Pro too? TIA!



Basically, I don't compare a long time, but zs10 pro are more bright. And slightly more v shape

ZSX are more balanced and better natural. But I must compare more.


----------



## Seazer

Nimweth said:


> That blue cable looks just like mine. It's from a banned brand. I'm going to need a gold coloured cable to go with my gold C12 when it gets here!


I just now found out that brand is banned here, I've mentioned them multiple times, how am i supposed to know that they are banned? Lol


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> I just now found out that brand is banned here, I've mentioned them multiple times, how am i supposed to know that they are banned? Lol



there is a link below @Slater about banned brand / seller


----------



## RikudouGoku

Podster said:


> You mean a nice blue like on my IDUN's That Pewter also looks good on the old P-1's
> 
> 
> 
> I have had to cool it on cables though as they have now exceeded my iem count LOL Guess I'm going to have to buy more iem's


What iem is that blue one connected to the blue cable? Looks nice


----------



## Podster (Sep 13, 2019)

RikudouGoku said:


> What iem is that blue one connected to the blue cable? Looks nice



Kinera IDUN https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32897220112.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.17.3ce06d3cnMk3J7

@Seazer , as a newcomer you can be excused

@Nimweth , I don't know about "Gold in them thar hills" but you can get gold in these babies https://penon-official.com/product/penon-gd849/  However this seems way more reasonable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...000&pvid=5ff13ec3-1ef4-4e29-810e-1f9e9ffce1a2 Of course if you really want to step up Yo game https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...000&pvid=267b69be-79bf-4079-abce-7e1d69b35615 LOL


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> Since likely you know well the cca big boss, so are they actually sister company to KZ? Or just pure another company that are competitor to KZ? Or what? Just curious..


Yup!...Definitely sister company to KZ!

Though, my personal thoughts are: They just like to fight like siblings would do on a daily basis competing for the last piece of pie, who gets to sit at the front seat of dads car, who had the bathroom first, who's turn is it to watch TV, or who gets to baby sit the twins, KB10 and baby Triple Win tonight!

Just my 2 cent thoughts.


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> Yup!...Definitely sister company to KZ!
> 
> Though, my personal thoughts are: They just like to fight like siblings would do on a daily basis competing for the last piece of pie, who gets to sit at the front seat of dads car, who had the bathroom first, who's turn is it to watch TV, or who gets to baby sit the twins, KB10 and baby Triple Win tonight!
> 
> Just my 2 cent thoughts.



LOL, I can't tell you how many times I've heard the word "Shotgun" yelled out loud over the last 18 years


----------



## SoundChoice

Nimweth said:


> It's a disease. I'm taking medication lol.



but the little voice inside is taunting, "it's only nine dollars for conductive pewter silvery coolness..."


----------



## Nimweth

SoundChoice said:


> but the little voice inside is taunting, "it's only nine dollars for conductive pewter silvery coolness..."


That's the problem, it's contagious and spread by online forums.....


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> That's the problem, it's contagious and spread by online forums.....



Oh crap, we're online


----------



## moisespr123

The ZSX definitely has a great treble. I'm liking it way better than the ZS10 Pro. Now, I can't decide whether to use these or the Hidizs MS4. Reason is, sometimes the treble is too much for my ears. However, I enjoy the balanced sound that the ZSX produce and I'm using it because of that. It's also very open, and pairs well with my different Bluetooth receivers.


----------



## Nimweth

I'm really liking the ZSX. Biggest soundstage I have heard on an IEM. Very well balanced sound but still fun like the ZS7. If the C12 is better as is rumoured, I'm in for a treat!


----------



## Seazer

Nimweth said:


> I'm really liking the ZSX. Biggest soundstage I have heard on an IEM. Very well balanced sound but still fun like the ZS7. If the C12 is better as is rumoured, I'm in for a treat!


I get the C12 tomorrow and the TRN V90 in 3 days. Looking forward to see who is top dog in my opinion.


----------



## moisespr123

Switched the tips to the stock ones from KZ on the ZSX and the treble is now tamed. I was using the "bass" tips of the Hidizs MS4 before. The sound is more balanced now. Yes, this is the best KZ so far, and I can now say after changing the tip that it may even beat the Hidizs just due to the fact that I can hear better instrument separation and a wider sound stage.


----------



## Podster

archdawg said:


> I really like those TRN cables for their conductivity, looks and flexibility and ended up with 6 of them, lol ... 3 balanced (0.75, 0.78, MMCX) and 3 more with 3.5mm jacks.



That Pewter TRN does look nice on the Zenith's Arch, when I got mine I ordered the balanced silver cable Bob was offering and run a black 16 core SE from he (who should not be mentioned) when not running balanced 






And as to stay on thread topic I really love this Tripowin C8 I picked up on Drop


----------



## Coldheart29 (Sep 13, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> That's the problem, it's contagious and spread by online forums.....


Eh, @Podster even got me to buy an upgrade cable (the first of a long series, i'm sure of that) whit his damn photos.

Now excuse me, i have to go back staring at the tracking for the new cable while i wait for it to show up at my door.


----------



## buke9

Just got my ZSX a couple of days ago and just now had a bit a time to give them a listen. I have the ATE,ZS3,ZST,ZS6 and ZS10 and by far the ZSX is the most pleasurable to listen to. While I don’t mind a bit of brightness most KZ’s were pushing me a bit but still not too far but yes they are bright but not sibilant much to me. Just have to say these are the best KZ’s I’ve heard as I like the little roll off on the top end and giving a more balanced presentation to any of those I’ve heard so far. Gotta say for $60 pretty damn good.


----------



## Podster

Coldheart29 said:


> Eh, @Podster even got me to buy an upgrade cable (the first of a long series, i'm sure of that) whit his damn photos.
> 
> Now excuse me, i have to go back staring at the tracking for the new cable while i wait for it to show up at my door.



Dam iPhone 6 I’ll try to make them more blurry


----------



## baskingshark

1clearhead said:


> Yup!...Definitely sister company to KZ!
> 
> Though, my personal thoughts are: They just like to fight like siblings would do on a daily basis competing for the last piece of pie, who gets to sit at the front seat of dads car, who had the bathroom first, who's turn is it to watch TV, or who gets to baby sit the twins, KB10 and baby Triple Win tonight!
> 
> Just my 2 cent thoughts.



Just to check, as far as I'm aware KBear and Tripowin are not true subsidiaries of KZ right? KZ just does OEM manufacturing of the IEMs for these 2 companies? 
I recalled reading that someone else on this forum contacted KBear and they confirmed they ain't related to KZ. I tried to contact Tripowin to verify this but they didn't reply me for weeks. 




Nimweth said:


> I'm really liking the ZSX. Biggest soundstage I have heard on an IEM. Very well balanced sound but still fun like the ZS7. If the C12 is better as is rumoured, I'm in for a treat!



Biggest soundstage on an IEM sounds good (no pun intended). What sources do u use to get this big soundstage?


----------



## Leo-rume

Nimweth said:


> I'm really liking the ZSX. Biggest soundstage I have heard on an IEM. Very well balanced sound but still fun like the ZS7. If the C12 is better as is rumoured, I'm in for a treat!



I'm a simple man, I see posts like this, I place orders


----------



## DynamicEars

Leo-rume said:


> I'm a simple man, I see posts like this, I place orders



Then i must be a complicated man. Lol


----------



## Leo-rume

DynamicEars said:


> Then i must be a complicated man. Lol


Haha... Lucky you. Your wallet must really respect you then. I don't think mine thinks very highly of me.


----------



## courierdriver

Seazer said:


> I get the C12 tomorrow and the TRN V90 in 3 days. Looking forward to see who is top dog in my opinion.


Please post your impressions and comparisons if you can. I enjoy my ZS10 PRO very much, so the C12 might be up my alley, but then again the V90 looks more comfortable and I'm wondering about the soundstage of both. These are both at the top of my list for 11/11, since I don't currently own any iems from CCA or TRN. TIA!


----------



## courierdriver

Leo-rume said:


> Haha... Lucky you. Your wallet must really respect you then. I don't think mine thinks very highly of me.


Simple or complicated...when you're in this hobby...NO WALLET RESPECTS YOU!!! Lol!


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> Simple or complicated...when you're in this hobby...NO WALLET RESPECTS YOU!!! Lol!



U don't even need to take out your wallet nowadays LOL


----------



## Keputs

voicemaster said:


> U don't even need to take out your wallet nowadays LOL



Yeh! That damn plastic card takes a severe beating


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Then i must be a complicated man. Lol



Damn right you are


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> Just to check, as far as I'm aware KBear and Tripowin are not true subsidiaries of KZ right? KZ just does OEM manufacturing of the IEMs for these 2 companies?
> I recalled reading that someone else on this forum contacted KBear and they confirmed they ain't related to KZ. I tried to contact Tripowin to verify this but they didn't reply me for weeks.
> 
> 
> ...


I am using a Hifi Walker H2 DAP via line out into a Fiio A5 amplifier. TRN 16 core cable.


----------



## linkzex (Sep 14, 2019)

Hi I'm looking at aliexpress to buy zsx now, do you guys have a preferred store or something, not sure which to choose from.

Any cable do you guys recommend for zsx?


----------



## baskingshark

linkzex said:


> Hi I'm looking at aliexpress to buy zsx now, do you guys have a preferred store or something, not sure which to choose from



I will go for the cheapest AE shop assuming that the shop is not brand new or has <95% rating.

Some tips are to use the app version of Aliexpress (prices are generally cheaper) and if u follow some shops u get a fans exclusive discount (i saw it for the ZSX a few days ago).


----------



## linkzex

baskingshark said:


> I will go for the cheapest AE shop assuming that the shop is not brand new or has <95% rating.
> 
> Some tips are to use the app version of Aliexpress (prices are generally cheaper) and if u follow some shops u get a fans exclusive discount (i saw it for the ZSX a few days ago).


I don't notice price difference on the app but I'll keep that in mind for the future.

Does this look fine to you? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...&terminal_id=463c9695a6404b18bc4da8900e12f404

Also should I buy any upgrade cable?


----------



## archdawg (Sep 14, 2019)

Podster said:


> That Pewter TRN does look nice on the Zenith's Arch, when I got mine I ordered the balanced silver cable Bob was offering and run a black 16 core SE from he (who should not be mentioned) when not running balanced


I also bought four of the silver-grey 8-core Kinboofis - 2 balanced 2-pin/MMCX and 2* 3.5mm 2-pin/MMCX but unfortunately there are no 0.78mm versions and 0.75mm don't work that well on the Zeniths. These Kinboofis look almost like some cheaper silver-grey 8-core NiceHCK cables but their conductors are significantly thicker.






Upper: Kinboofi   Below: NiceHCK



 



baskingshark said:


> I will go for the cheapest AE shop assuming that the shop is not brand new or has <95% rating.
> 
> Some tips are to use the app version of Aliexpress (prices are generally cheaper) and if u follow some shops u get a fans exclusive discount (i saw it for the ZSX a few days ago).


... and make sure you get free Aliexpress Standard shipping. More and more shops on AE use registered airmail and AE saver shipping which depending on where you live can take a lot longer to arrive.


----------



## baskingshark

linkzex said:


> I don't notice price difference on the app but I'll keep that in mind for the future.
> 
> Does this look fine to you? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000104031681.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&mb=gEvW59ZYL9DWqQB&srcSns=Copy to Clipboard&tid=white_backgroup_101&tt=sns_Copy&aff_platform=default&cpt=1568455267715&sk=mqq0Hl36&aff_trace_key=6d2eca97cda74c59bc230f7f37cf05dc-1568455267715-09774-mqq0Hl36&businessType=ProductDetail&templateId=white_backgroup_101&platform=AE&terminal_id=463c9695a6404b18bc4da8900e12f404
> 
> Also should I buy any upgrade cable?



I think the KZ stock cables are more than adequate, but it is a personal preference whether u wanna upgrade the cables. Some believe it changes the sound signature, some don't believe it and only change cables for asthetics and feel. Yep nothing right or wrong, I respect both camps.
I don't have the ZSX but it seems it uses a para C cable, which is different from most of the other IEM cable connectors, so keep this in mind if u are getting upgrade cable for it.
(Would be best if u ask the others what upgrade cables they use with their KSX as I don't usually use para C type cables).


----------



## linkzex (Sep 14, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> I think the KZ stock cables are more than adequate, but it is a personal preference whether u wanna upgrade the cables. Some believe it changes the sound signature, some don't believe it and only change cables for asthetics and feel. Yep nothing right or wrong, I respect both camps.
> I don't have the ZSX but it seems it uses a para C cable, which is different from most of the other IEM cable connectors, so keep this in mind if u are getting upgrade cable for it.
> (Would be best if u ask the others what upgrade cables they use with their KSX as I don't usually use para C type cables).


Good call, if anyone has a recommendation for that type of cable, please do tell.
Also that store I linked is fine right?


----------



## Podster

archdawg said:


> I also bought four of the silver-grey 8-core Kinboofis - 2 balanced 2-pin/MMCX and 2* 3.5mm 2-pin/MMCX but unfortunately there are no 0.78mm versions and 0.75mm don't work that well on the Zeniths. These Kinboofis look almost like some cheaper silver-grey 8-core NiceHCK cables but their conductors are significantly thicker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Keputs (Sep 14, 2019)

linkzex said:


> Good call, if anyone has a recommendation for that type of cable, please do tell.
> Also that store I linked is fine right?



The stock cable of the ZSX is fine but prone to tangle and I don't like the material so I got this KZ cable upgrade. Better aesthetics and material. I won't bet on SQ improvement though. But it didn't hurt and the ZSX continues to impress. Only $9 but thru shopee here in the Philippines. 

Also, the descriptor from the seller's site. it's official KZ upgrade from China


----------



## bedlamite

linkzex said:


> Hi I'm looking at aliexpress to buy zsx now, do you guys have a preferred store or something, not sure which to choose from.


KZ has their own store on Aliexpress, if you want absolute peace of mind in purchasing.


----------



## linkzex

Keputs said:


> The stock cable of the ZSX is fine but prone to tangle and I don't like the material so I got this KZ cable upgrade. Better aesthetics and material. I won't bet on SQ improvement though. But it didn't hurt and the ZSX continues to impress. Only $9 but thru shopee here in the Philippines.


Nice we have shopee too here in Malaysia. Did you buy your zsx from shopee?
I'd like the product name for the cable.
I always see mmcx etc options Im guessing that's the cable pin type? which one is for zsx?


----------



## Keputs (Sep 14, 2019)

linkzex said:


> Nice we have shopee too here in Malaysia. Did you buy your zsx from shopee?
> I'd like the product name for the cable.
> I always see mmcx etc options Im guessing that's the cable pin type? which one is for zsx?



Yes I bought it from shopee. Attached are the details as per seller's page. It's a very reliable seller as far as I'm concerned. Purchased other items from the shop and has note disappointed so far. Again, this is only for shopee Philippines. Hope it helps.


----------



## linkzex (Sep 14, 2019)

Keputs said:


> Yes I bought it from shopee. Attached are the details as per seller's page. It's a very reliable seller as far as I'm concerned. Purchased other items from the shop and has note disappointed so far. Again, this is only for shopee Philippines. Hope it helps.


Thanks a lot, this will definitely help. It's around $9 here, the C variant is the one I should choose right?


----------



## Keputs

linkzex said:


> Thanks a lot, this will definitely help. It's around $9 here, the C variant is the one I should choose right?




Yes the C variant fits perfectly. Enjoy listening


----------



## Mybutthurts

Try Greendio Audio Store on AliE.

Some good cheap upgrade cables on there.


----------



## lgcubana

baskingshark said:


> *I think the KZ stock cables are more than adequate*, but it is a personal preference whether u wanna upgrade the cables. Some believe it changes the sound signature, some don't believe it and only change cables for asthetics and feel. Yep nothing right or wrong, I respect both camps.
> I don't have the ZSX but it seems it uses a para C cable, which is different from most of the other IEM cable connectors, so keep this in mind if u are getting upgrade cable for it.
> (Would be best if u ask the others what upgrade cables they use with their KSX as I don't usually use para C type cables).



That depends on the model, IMO. I went with a KZ branded upgrade cable for my ZS4, because of the memory wire, in the stock cable.


----------



## linkzex (Sep 14, 2019)

I ended up buying zsx and the aforementioned upgrade cable from kz themself from the local reseller here cuz faster shipping time + warranty. Ended up costing me around $50.
Can't wait


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> That depends on the model, IMO. I went with a KZ branded upgrade cable for my ZS4, because of the memory wire, in the stock cable.



The KZ memory wire can be easily removed. I remove them on all of my KZ cables.

https://www.audioreviews.org/removing-memory-wire/


----------



## Podster

Well KZ fans here's a pair to take you back, wonder how many still have a pair of these? The etching on the ring is just awesome






Pod's headed to Saturday morning Racquetball to torture those joints


----------



## otteros

Seazer said:


> I get the C12 tomorrow and the TRN V90 in 3 days. Looking forward to see who is top dog in my opinion.



ugh i need a comparison between this 3. At the moment im deciding for which to get they have the same price range. My current iem is the ZSN. Im looking for a good isolation, imaging for FPS games, and of course music. Cant wait for your perspective.


----------



## otteros

linkzex said:


> I ended up buying zsx and the aforementioned upgrade cable from kz themself from the local reseller here cuz faster shipping time + warranty. Ended up costing me around $50.
> Can't wait


Hey which seller did you get it from on shopee mind telling the shop name thx!


----------



## Captainbeefturd

Hi I have both the cca c12 and the terminator, anyone tried both which should I keep (can only financially justify one lol). Like neutral (ish) good soundstage, detail, dynamics.......which would be the best overall IEM lol?
Cheers


----------



## mbwilson111

Captainbeefturd said:


> Hi I have both the cca c12 and the terminator, anyone tried both which should I keep (can only financially justify one lol). Like neutral (ish) good soundstage, detail, dynamics.......which would be the best overall IEM lol?
> Cheers



Keep the one you like best..only you can determine that.


----------



## otteros

Captainbeefturd said:


> Hi I have both the cca c12 and the terminator, anyone tried both which should I keep (can only financially justify one lol). Like neutral (ish) good soundstage, detail, dynamics.......which would be the best overall IEM lol?
> Cheers


Which one do you like interms of comfort/fitting? How about the isolation too?


----------



## Captainbeefturd

mbwilson111 said:


> Keep the one you like best..only you can determine that.



Simple question simple answer . Should have said I have multiples of both selling them so trying not to dip into the boxes, sometimes I like to try my wears both the c12 and zsx look great on paper but are tuned differently I understand you know how each is tunes (ie bright, neatral/ballance, v shaped etc)?


----------



## shockdoc

Anyone have the Tin Audio T3 AND the new ZSX and care to compare/contrast? TIA


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Keep the one you like best..only you can determine that.


+1 Agree!...Comfort, fit, looks, and sound go along way, yet it's a personal choice!


----------



## Captainbeefturd

shockdoc said:


> Anyone have the Tin Audio T3 AND the new ZSX and care to compare/contrast? TIA


I might depending which (cca c12 or kz zsx) I open and keep but could pretty much guarantee the many drivers of these will present quite a different sound to the 2 pretty seemless drivers (DD and Knowls BA with slick crossover) of the T3's. Let you know later when I stop procrastinating over which box to open


----------



## Seazer (Sep 14, 2019)

Intial impressions of the CCA C12 next to the ZSX after a few minutes. They definitely sound close but they definitely also sound different. I would say somewhere around 2-5k is pushed more forward on the C12 than the ZSX. This makes the C12 sound a bit more V shaped and the ZSX a bit more balanced. They have similar amounts of bass. I'm getting better instrument separation and soundstage on the ZSX. Vocals sound more pronounced on the C12 but fit better into the mix on the ZSX. So far I like the ZSX more, the C12 would definitely be more fatiguing over time imo. Some might like the C12 more though, they are both good. I do like the more forward vocals, you might be able to hear some details more but it's on the edge of fatigue. Anyone who says they sound the same and are just in different enclosures are objectively wrong though.


----------



## voicemaster

Seazer said:


> Intial impressions of the CCA C12 next to the ZSX after a few minutes. They definitely sound close but they definitely also sound different. I would say somewhere around 2-5k is pushed more forward on the C12 than the ZSX. This makes the C12 sound a bit more V shaped and the ZSX a bit more balanced. They have similar amounts of bass. I'm getting better instrument separation and soundstage on the ZSX. Vocals sound more pronounced on the C12 but fit better into the mix on the ZSX. So far I like the ZSX more, the C12 would definitely be more fatiguing over time imo. Some might like the C12 more though, they are both good. I do like the more forward vocals, you might be able to hear some details more but it's on the edge of fatigue. Anyone who says they sound the same and are just in different enclosures are objectively wrong though.



Well with different enclosure and drivers placement, they sure will sound different. Eventho the differences might not be night and day, there will still be micro differences.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 14, 2019)

No


voicemaster said:


> Well with different enclosure and drivers placement, they sure will sound different. Eventho the differences might not be night and day, there will still be micro differences.


True, some people were saying they graph the same and sound the same though. The C12 sound kinda similar (but better) to the ZS10 Pro, while the ZSX sounds different than both


----------



## voicemaster

Seazer said:


> No
> 
> True, some people were saying they graph the same and sound the same though. The C12 sound kinda similar (but better) to the ZS10 Pro, while the ZSX sounds different than both



Hopefully by next week I will receive my c12. Still in China right now.


----------



## Captainbeefturd

Just to say if anyones in a hurry I have a few c16, zsx, tin2, t2pro, t3 and cca10's in stock


Seazer said:


> Intial impressions of the CCA C12 next to the ZSX after a few minutes. They definitely sound close but they definitely also sound different. I would say somewhere around 2-5k is pushed more forward on the C12 than the ZSX. This makes the C12 sound a bit more V shaped and the ZSX a bit more balanced. They have similar amounts of bass. I'm getting better instrument separation and soundstage on the ZSX. Vocals sound more pronounced on the C12 but fit better into the mix on the ZSX. So far I like the ZSX more, the C12 would definitely be more fatiguing over time imo. Some might like the C12 more though, they are both good. I do like the more forward vocals, you might be able to hear some details more but it's on the edge of fatigue. Anyone who says they sound the same and are just in different enclosures are objectively wrong though.




Hey Seazer. Nice quick summation
Just checking guess no burn in yet? Same tips cable quality and other varient? So the zsx definitely sounding the more 'audiophile' (ballanced, detail, separation and soundstage) of the 2 cca a bit more on the 'pop' (v shaped) side judging by its characteristics? Does concur with the one review I have found online although that did imply more 'sparkle' to the c12. Which might suit a smaller ear. You think these are both an improvement on previous incarnations (including the c16 or as16)?


----------



## Seazer

Captainbeefturd said:


> Just to say if anyones in a hurry I have a few c16, zsx, tin2, t2pro, t3 and cca10's in stock
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have not heard the previous incarnations. And these impressions are just after opening them, no burn in. I'll try burning in a bit but if anything the change is either nothing or very subtle most of the time. Yes I was testing them with the same tips cable and source. 

The more forward 2-5khz could describe the increased sparkle you mentioned. Potentially more detail, but it doesn't blend into the mix as seamlessly as the ZSX. It kinda reminded me of the Moondrop Crescent's upper mid/lower treble characteristics. 

I don't know if i would say it is more V shaped since both seem to have the about the same amount of bass. They differ most at the upper midrange/lower treble. Also the ZSX clearly wins in the separation and soundstage. Vocals are clearer in the mix on the C12, which is enjoyable but edges slightly into the territory of fatigue. It's not sibiliant, just pushing the edge of what i want in that range. The C12 is potentially more exciting, while the ZSX is a bit more laid back. I do like them both.

Comfort is a wash since everyone prefers different things. They weigh about the same. The C12 fit a bit more similar to how the ZS10 Pro fits. It doesn't have a fin like the ZSX, which some people prefer. I think the fin helps stabalize it and it stays in my ear better than the C12 and ZS10 Pro.


----------



## linkzex

otteros said:


> Hey which seller did you get it from on shopee mind telling the shop name thx!


I bought it from lazada 
https://www.lazada.com.my/products/...134071.html?spm=a2o4k.cart.0.0.572049fbQjs1ZP
the shop is on shopee too if you prefer that
If you don't mind waiting longer and no warranty aliexpress is noticeably cheaper, just something to consider


----------



## tiamor988

linkzex said:


> I bought it from lazada
> https://www.lazada.com.my/products/...134071.html?spm=a2o4k.cart.0.0.572049fbQjs1ZP
> the shop is on shopee too if you prefer that
> If you don't mind waiting longer and no warranty aliexpress is noticeably cheaper, just something to consider


Sometime overseas seller in shopee cheaper then aliexpress. Just compare across all shopping platform available for your area. BTW, I'm from Malaysia too.


----------



## linkzex (Sep 15, 2019)

tiamor988 said:


> Sometime overseas seller in shopee cheaper then aliexpress. Just compare across all shopping platform available for your area. BTW, I'm from Malaysia too.


Yea I saw some of them cheaper ones on shopee but they are sus, I guess I'm just too paranoid.
malaysians unite


----------



## tiamor988

linkzex said:


> Yea I saw some of them cheaper ones on shopee but they are sus, I guess I'm just too paranoid.
> malaysians unite


Just watch if they have 'preferred' tag and good rating, it should be fine. But the downside ordering from overseas seller, you have to wait about a week.  Mine fastest arrive in 4 days. I don't mine the wait as long as the price different is huge.


----------



## linkzex

tiamor988 said:


> Just watch if they have 'preferred' tag and good rating, it should be fine. But the downside ordering from overseas seller, you have to wait about a week.  Mine fastest arrive in 4 days. I don't mine the wait as long as the price different is huge.


wait 1 week is good for overseas lol I remember having to wait 1 month and a half from something on ebay


----------



## 1clearhead

I get the opposite effect after burning in the C12 for more than 100 hours and the ZSX roughly over 35 hours...

With the C12, and using the star line ear tips the sound is balanced with no metallic sound and truly balanced range with plenty of details and non-fatiguing sound that also shows great sonic improvement. I really due like the ZSX, but because of the bulky housing (might not be for everyone) and the way the placement of drivers are placed in their housing, I do still hear a metallic-like signature creep-up once in a while. So, it helps using the star line ear tips as well smoothing out the whole signature, but at the same time, ironically it does lose some clean details in the 2-5khz register, while the C12 presents it perfectly.

So, I have it like this...

If you purchased the C12:
The default ear tips has a bit of an upper range 2-5khz that can easily be fixed by swapping to the star line ear tips for an enriched and perfectly balanced non-metallic sound signature.

If you purchased the ZSX:
The default ear tips might be the best way to go by making sure they are pushed all the way into the nozzle itself, so when you finally wear them you get a very similar balanced sound signature, but as I said before, because of the way the drivers are placed in the housing, you might still get some metallic sound creep-up at you. So, best bet is to use the star line ear tips to smooth out the slight metallic sound for an enjoyable experience even though you'll experience a more distant midrange giving them almost a slight V-shape effect.

Lastly, on the positive side they both demonstrate incredible improvements on their drivers, sound, and appearance, while listening to a non-harsh and non-sibilant experience.

 I'll express more details later in the week...

-Clear


----------



## shockdoc




----------



## linkzex

Btw how's the hissing of zsx pairing with different sources (especially a phone), I know kz headphones are always very sensitive?


----------



## baskingshark

linkzex said:


> Btw how's the hissing of zsx pairing with different sources (especially a phone), I know kz headphones are always very sensitive?



Not sure about ZSX as i don't have it, but its predecessor the ZS10 Pro has a slight hiss with smartphones and desktop.
It is not obvious once music starts playing.
But if u are OCD about it, connecting it to an inline volume controller or impedance matching device or even a DAC or amp can fix this hiss, at least for me.


----------



## Seazer

linkzex said:


> Btw how's the hissing of zsx pairing with different sources (especially a phone), I know kz headphones are always very sensitive?


I basically only use it with my ES100 and I don't hear a hiss. I don't remember hearing a hiss when I used it with my phone either.i think I heard more hiss on the zs10 pro


----------



## SinisterDev

Well, I ended up ordering the ZSX and they arrived today! And I'll get to what my impressions are of them vs the ZS10 Pro soon (Spoilers: they're fantastic and definitely an upgrade imo) but first I wanted to ask for some assistance with getting these things comfortable in my ears. I think I need to somehow adjust the bend in the ear hook. I swappedo over the KZ 8 core upgrade cable ive been using on the ZS10 and started using them on the ZSX, and i started getting this ache in my ears rather quickly and feeling like i wasn't getting a good seal either. I became concerned. And then after some fiddling around with them a bit i realized it was the ear hooks! Despite them being perfectly comfortable with how i wear the ZS10 Pro's, they feel all wrong in the position where the ZSX sits comfortably in my ears. Soon as i took the hooks down from the back of my ears, it felt like everything just fell perfectly in place! The ZSX felt comfortable again and i could immediately tell I was getting a better seal too. Somehow i need to adjust the bend in these hooks significantly. Feels like theyre pulling the bottom of the IEMs out of my ear, and causing that hump on the back of the ZSX to dig into the concha of my ear. I vaguely remember someone mentioning in here at some point that there was a safe way to reshape the hooks, but I can't seem to remember where.


----------



## linkzex

Has anyone tried an impedance adapter for zsx? Does it make it significantly worse?


----------



## Captainbeefturd

1clearhead said:


> I get the opposite effect after burning in the C12 for more than 100 hours and the ZSX roughly over 35 hours...
> 
> With the C12, and using the star line ear tips the sound is balanced with no metallic sound and truly balanced range with plenty of details and non-fatiguing sound that also shows great sonic improvement. I really due like the ZSX, but because of the bulky housing (might not be for everyone) and the way the placement of drivers are placed in their housing, I do still hear a metallic-like signature creep-up once in a while. So, it helps using the star line ear tips as well smoothing out the whole signature, but at the same time, ironically it does lose some clean details in the 2-5khz register, while the C12 presents it perfectly.
> 
> ...




Ahhh was just about to tuck into the zsx lol the joys of head fi by its nature always contrary impressions
Would you say the burn in made a significant difference what method of burn in you using (pink noise, sweeps etc)?. I know each IEM has a different burn in 'sensitivity' but these share essentially the same components. You seem to be one of the few out there shares an appreciation for the starline on kz/cca, wonder if it might be a small ear thing, get better deaper more comfortable insert if got small ear canals? Those with big lug wholes maybe need a foamy.
Good run down from a good bit of experience. More to procrastinate over for me me thinks Dev


----------



## Seazer

SinisterDev said:


> Well, I ended up ordering the ZSX and they arrived today! And I'll get to what my impressions are of them vs the ZS10 Pro soon (Spoilers: they're fantastic and definitely an upgrade imo) but first I wanted to ask for some assistance with getting these things comfortable in my ears. I think I need to somehow adjust the bend in the ear hook. I swappedo over the KZ 8 core upgrade cable ive been using on the ZS10 and started using them on the ZSX, and i started getting this ache in my ears rather quickly and feeling like i wasn't getting a good seal either. I became concerned. And then after some fiddling around with them a bit i realized it was the ear hooks! Despite them being perfectly comfortable with how i wear the ZS10 Pro's, they feel all wrong in the position where the ZSX sits comfortably in my ears. Soon as i took the hooks down from the back of my ears, it felt like everything just fell perfectly in place! The ZSX felt comfortable again and i could immediately tell I was getting a better seal too. Somehow i need to adjust the bend in these hooks significantly. Feels like theyre pulling the bottom of the IEMs out of my ear, and causing that hump on the back of the ZSX to dig into the concha of my ear. I vaguely remember someone mentioning in here at some point that there was a safe way to reshape the hooks, but I can't seem to remember where.



I'm using a nicehck cable and if I'm using foam tips the hump on the back doesnt touch my ear at all, and if I'm using silicone it only lightly rests on my ear. The hooks on my cable are just one of those memory shrink tube rubber things, there isn't a wire or really anything to reshape


----------



## moisespr123

linkzex said:


> Has anyone tried an impedance adapter for zsx? Does it make it significantly worse?



I'm using the IFI Ear Buddy. I don't notice any quality degradation with it. In fact, it helps at reducing noise in those adapters where noise is noticeable.


----------



## linkzex

moisespr123 said:


> I'm using the IFI Ear Buddy. I don't notice any quality degradation with it. In fact, it helps at reducing noise in those adapters where noise is noticeable.



Nice, hm where I can buy ear buddy. Do you think impedance adapter (not ear buddy) will do the same job without degrading quality?


----------



## alex5908 (Sep 15, 2019)

Hi everybody,
There's a lot of hype at Russian audiophile forums about KZ ZSx. They say it's a class higher/way better than ZS7. Can anybody prove/disapprove it?


----------



## TechnoidFR

alex5908 said:


> Hi everybody,
> There's a lot of hype at Russian audiophile forums about KZ ZSx. They say it's a class higher/way better than ZS7. Can anybody prove/disapprove it?



They are clearly better than zs7 yes


----------



## Nimweth (Sep 15, 2019)

alex5908 said:


> Hi everybody,
> There's a lot of hype at Russian audiophile forums about KZ ZSx. They say it's a class higher/way better than ZS7. Can anybody prove/disapprove it?


I have the ZSX and my favourite KZ up to now has been the ZS7. But I have to say, even though it's early days, the ZSX is an improved version of the ZS7 with more resolution, a more extended treble and a wonderful soundstage. CCA C12 is more open and brighter which gives the impression of more detail and mid bass is not as pronounced as the ZSX so makes the C12 sound more balanced. ZSX sounds slightly warmer in tone and not fatiguing like the ZS10 Pro. I'm using stock cable and starline tips on both of them. I am enjoying both so far and I am not sure which I prefer!


----------



## steviewonderbread

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZSX and my favourite KZ up to now has been the ZS7. But I have to say, even though it's early days, the ZSX is an improved version of the ZS7 with more resolution, a more extended treble and a wonderful soundstage. CCA C12 is more open and brighter which gives the impression of more detail and mid bass is not as pronounced as the ZSX so makes the C12 sound more balanced. I'm using stock cable and starline tips on both of them. I am enjoying both so far and I am not sure which I prefer!


I've almost always ended up agreeing with your impressions, Nimweth. AKA: very much looking forward to the C12


----------



## octotot

Hi, can someone please compare passive noise isolation on ZS10 Pro vs AS12 vs ZSX?

I use ZS10 Pro with Spinfit CP145 S tips right now and although the fit is tight, I am not very happy with their isolation. It seems that the reason is the air vents for the dynamic driver? AS12 is all BA, so there shouldn't be any need for air vents, and although ZSX has a dynamic driver, I don't see any vents on their back shell in the photos.

Also would love to hear how AS12 does in terms of bass. I used to have Ultimate Ears 600 before, and they isolated really well, but I didn't like that the bass was pretty much non-existent, as they have just a single BA driver. Obviously, AS12 should be much better as it has dedicated bass drivers, but is it on par with ZS10 Pro or ZSX?


----------



## alex5908

TechnoidFR said:


> They are clearly better than zs7 yes


In what respect? Could you be more specific?


----------



## alex5908 (Sep 15, 2019)

Does anybody own TFZ MyLove Edition and KZ ZSX to compare them "back to back"? (What is the correct way of saying this in English? Word per word translation in Russian is "forehead to forehead", ha-ha )
3 days ago I received TFZ MyLove Edition and my faves ZS7 are now second best after TFZ in out-of-doors condition.


----------



## Detectit (Sep 15, 2019)

hakuzen said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread.676402/ ?
> 
> 
> the problem is that the cables from your links don't use C-type termination (zsn, zsn pro, zs10 pro). you can use them, but the connection won't be as short, tight, and safe than when using C-type (specially the two first ones, which have protruding 2pins termination). the cables from the links i provided allow C-type termination.
> ...



Just wanna thank you for the comprehensive and detailed information on so many cables.

Do you have any experience with KB Ear cables?
I am looking for balanced for the KZ ZSX. So I belive its qdc... But I have some other KZ items so maybe it's easier to buy the two pin version?

KBEAR 16 Core Upgraded Silver Plated Balanced Cable 2.5/3.5/4.4MM With MMCX/2pin/QDC Connector For KZ ZS10 Pro AS10 AS16 ZSN ZSX
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/sMrQQIa8

KBEAR 8 Core Upgraded Silver Plated Balanced Cable 2.5/3.5/4.4MM With MMCX/2pin/QDC Connector For KZ ZS10 ZSN Pro AS12 AS16 ZSX
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/s5PeRByU


----------



## hakuzen

Detectit said:


> Just wanna thank you for the comprehensive and detailed information on so many cables.
> 
> Do you have any experience with KB Ear cables?
> I am looking for balanced for the KZ ZSR. So I belive its qdc... But I have some other KZ items so maybe it's easier to buy the two pin version?
> ...


i've not tried kbear cables yet. they look ok to me.
do you mean kz zsx? if so, qdc connector would be the right one, or flush (not much protruding) 2pin.
if you mean kz zsr, 2pin (flush or protruding)


----------



## Detectit

hakuzen said:


> i've not tried kbear cables yet. they look ok to me.
> do you mean kz zsx? if so, qdc connector would be the right one, or flush (not much protruding) 2pin.
> if you mean kz zsr, 2pin (flush or protruding)


 Yeah Sorry typo it's the ZSX. But I also have the Zs10 and AS10. So would be nice to swap.
QDC won't fit to ZS10 and AS10.?
And two pin is not flush on ZSX but are on ZS and As?


----------



## Captainbeefturd

alex5908 said:


> Hi everybody,
> There's a lot of hype at Russian audiophile forums about KZ ZSx. They say it's a class higher/way better than ZS7. Can anybody prove/disapprove it?




It depends what your looking for if VERY base heavy's your thing then I guess you may prefer the zs7 but to my ears and tastes the zsx is far superior, very controlled bass and great base extension but strong quite forward mids (would actually say ballanced exellent vocals) and the best treble I've heard on a KZ (great detail, seperation and soundstage)
Feel a far more mature tune imo!


----------



## alex5908

Captainbeefturd said:


> It depends what your looking for if VERY base heavy's your thing


Yes, it is. Fortunately or unfortunately.
Thanks for letting me know. I would not like less base than the amount ZS7 have.


----------



## Captainbeefturd

shockdoc said:


> Anyone have the Tin Audio T3 AND the new ZSX and care to compare/contrast? TIA


Finally took the plunge with the zsx and glad I did. In a word I can't believe I'm saying this but better! Out of the box I'm finding the mids less recessed very ballanced sounding (more so than T3's!! Kz?) but what's struck me is I'm finding more detail in the zsx which really was a suprise. Base of course is handled very well with more punch to lower mids and better base extension. Definitely more soundstage on the zsx and I feel better seperation (I was expecting a bit of a mess tbh) where the T3's still trump imo is the more natural timbre, there's still a slight steely sound on the KZ's and male vocals have a slightly more natural feel. Tins absolutely trump the kz for comfort, their not totally uncomfortable but can see what others are saying and they do protrude quite a bit. The Tins also have that superb cable and general more premium feel. I will still keep my T3's for longer wear and would suit some genres better, maybe accustic and vocals?! Do think there's value in having both if you got the $
Hope this helps


----------



## Captainbeefturd

alex5908 said:


> Yes, it is. Fortunately or unfortunately.
> Thanks for letting me know. I would not like less base than the amount ZS7 have.



I really wouldn't say they lack the base of zs7 I prefer the base of the zsx it's more punchy and better controlled, just the mids and higher frequencies are more pronounced better resolved, you could always eq them down if you want pure ear thunder


----------



## Detectit

@hakuzen

I understood what you mean now... Protruding I had to look up. (Google translate) 

I will order the QDC otherwise the two pin can easily fall out.

For balanced I think it's best to choose 16 core, right?


----------



## Slater

Detectit said:


> For balanced I think it's best to choose 16 core, right?



Do you have a DAP or amplifier source that works with balanced output?


----------



## Captainbeefturd

Captainbeefturd said:


> Finally took the plunge with the zsx and glad I did. In a word I can't believe I'm saying this but better! Out of the box I'm finding the mids less recessed very ballanced sounding (more so than T3's!! Kz?) but what's struck me is I'm finding more detail in the zsx which really was a suprise. Base of course is handled very well with more punch to lower mids and better base extension. Definitely more soundstage on the zsx and I feel better seperation (I was expecting a bit of a mess tbh) where the T3's still trump imo is the more natural timbre, there's still a slight steely sound on the KZ's and male vocals have a slightly more natural feel. Tins absolutely trump the kz for comfort, their not totally uncomfortable but can see what others are saying and they do protrude quite a bit. The Tins also have that superb cable and general more premium feel. I will still keep my T3's for longer wear and would suit some genres better, maybe accustic and vocals?! Do think there's value in having both if you got the $
> Hope this helps




I would add the Tins have a warmer signiture, the ZSX is not 'cold' as such but definitely cooler than the T3


----------



## hakuzen

Detectit said:


> Yeah Sorry typo it's the ZSX. But I also have the Zs10 and AS10. So would be nice to swap.
> QDC won't fit to ZS10 and AS10.?
> And two pin is not flush on ZSX but are on ZS and As?





Detectit said:


> @hakuzen
> 
> I understood what you mean now... Protruding I had to look up. (Google translate)
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> Do you have a DAP or amplifier source that works with balanced output?


if you want a termination which works for zs10, as10, and zsx (protruding socket in the katter), you'd need flush (not protruding) 2pin.
if you want perfect secured fit fir zsx, qdc termination, but you'll need another cable for zs10 and as10.
another solution is to buy protruding 2pin, usable with zs10, as10, and many iems, and a 2pin to qdc angled adapter at taobao (it costs $20 usd though, sorry, can't access to links now, because i haven't ny computer for a few days). this is what i use to adapt my high quality cables to zs10 pro or zsx (or any iem using qdc socket).

16 cores vs 8 cores vs 4 cores has nothing to be with single-ended vs balanced.
there is a link inside my list of cables about number of cores discussion (check my signature).

which balanced source do you plan to use?


----------



## Detectit

hakuzen said:


> if you want a termination which works for zs10, as10, and zsx (protruding socket in the katter), you'd need flush (not protruding) 2pin.
> if you want perfect secured fit fir zsx, qdc termination, but you'll need another cable for zs10 and as10.
> another solution is to buy protruding 2pin, usable with zs10, as10, and many iems, and a 2pin to qdc angled adapter at taobao (it costs $20 usd though, sorry, can't access to links now, because i haven't ny computer for a few days). this is what i use to adapt my high quality cables to zs10 pro or zsx (or any iem using qdc socket).
> 
> ...



I was thinking more on a simpler way. Because a balanced cable don't share common ground. So both + and - on left and right you need a thicker cable.

I have a Fiio M9 with balanced out. 

I will look on the net for the adapter that would be a great solution.


----------



## Seazer

octotot said:


> Hi, can someone please compare passive noise isolation on ZS10 Pro vs AS12 vs ZSX?
> 
> I use ZS10 Pro with Spinfit CP145 S tips right now and although the fit is tight, I am not very happy with their isolation. It seems that the reason is the air vents for the dynamic driver? AS12 is all BA, so there shouldn't be any need for air vents, and although ZSX has a dynamic driver, I don't see any vents on their back shell in the photos.
> 
> Also would love to hear how AS12 does in terms of bass. I used to have Ultimate Ears 600 before, and they isolated really well, but I didn't like that the bass was pretty much non-existent, as they have just a single BA driver. Obviously, AS12 should be much better as it has dedicated bass drivers, but is it on par with ZS10 Pro or ZSX?


There is a little hole vent on the front side of the housing, in between the nozzle and the stabilizing fin/nub


----------



## voicemaster

octotot said:


> Hi, can someone please compare passive noise isolation on ZS10 Pro vs AS12 vs ZSX?
> 
> I use ZS10 Pro with Spinfit CP145 S tips right now and although the fit is tight, I am not very happy with their isolation. It seems that the reason is the air vents for the dynamic driver? AS12 is all BA, so there shouldn't be any need for air vents, and although ZSX has a dynamic driver, I don't see any vents on their back shell in the photos.
> 
> Also would love to hear how AS12 does in terms of bass. I used to have Ultimate Ears 600 before, and they isolated really well, but I didn't like that the bass was pretty much non-existent, as they have just a single BA driver. Obviously, AS12 should be much better as it has dedicated bass drivers, but is it on par with ZS10 Pro or ZSX?



The zsx definitely has much better isolation than the zs10pro. The only air vent is on the back that goes touching your ear. No air vent on the face plate. And the zsx has a bigger shell, so it will cover your ear more.


----------



## voicemaster

Captainbeefturd said:


> It depends what your looking for if VERY base heavy's your thing then I guess you may prefer the zs7 but to my ears and tastes the zsx is far superior, very controlled bass and great base extension but strong quite forward mids (would actually say ballanced exellent vocals) and the best treble I've heard on a KZ (great detail, seperation and soundstage)
> *Feel a far more mature tune imo![*/QUOTE]
> 
> That's the word I am looking for when trying to describe what the ZSX sounds like.


----------



## mbwilson111

SinisterDev said:


> I vaguely remember someone mentioning in here at some point that there was a safe way to reshape the hooks, but I can't seem to remember where.





Seazer said:


> . The hooks on my cable are just one of those memory shrink tube rubber things, there isn't a wire or really anything to reshape



I have not tried this yet myself but I have seen other people mention gently heating the preformed ear hooks with a hair drying and then shaping them how you want.  I would probably NOT try this with the cable attached to the earpieces.


----------



## HungryPanda

You know when you have to many iems when you think you have the ZSX in you ears and take them out and they are the NiceHCK NX7 and then put them in a ZS7 case by mistake


----------



## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> You know when you have to many iems when you think you have the ZSX in you ears and take them out and they are the NiceHCK NX7 and then put them in a ZS7 case by mistake



I knew way before that.


----------



## Captainbeefturd

Dare I say sophisticated....too much lol

If they could just nail that treble tone, maybe slightly warmer timber be absolute killer, maybe next generation?! Haven't burnt in yet have found KZ to be very 'burn in sensitive'


----------



## hakuzen

pp


Detectit said:


> I was thinking more on a simpler way. Because a balanced cable don't share common ground. So both + and - on left and right you need a thicker cable.
> 
> I have a Fiio M9 with balanced out.
> 
> I will look on the net for the adapter that would be a great solution.


each side of the iem only receives 2 signals, positive and ground/negative (single-ended/balanced). so the number of cores required is the same on both modes, regardless of they are soldered to same jack contact (shared ground) or not.


----------



## Seazer

mbwilson111 said:


> I have not tried this yet myself but I have seen other people mention gently heating the preformed ear hooks with a hair drying and then shaping them how you want.  I would probably NOT try this with the cable attached to the earpieces.


You can get a soft cable with no preformed hooks, and just drape it over your ear if the hooks are causing trouble


----------



## mbwilson111

Seazer said:


> You can get a soft cable with no preformed hooks, and just drape it over your ear if the hooks are causing trouble



Personally I hate just draping them over my ear.  They just get tangled up in my hair plus I find it much more difficult to put on than with the hook.  I like the preformed hooks if they are shaped properly...or not too tight.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 15, 2019)

1clearhead said:


> I get the opposite effect after burning in the C12 for more than 100 hours and the ZSX roughly over 35 hours...
> 
> With the C12, and using the star line ear tips the sound is balanced with no metallic sound and truly balanced range with plenty of details and non-fatiguing sound that also shows great sonic improvement. I really due like the ZSX, but because of the bulky housing (might not be for everyone) and the way the placement of drivers are placed in their housing, I do still hear a metallic-like signature creep-up once in a while. So, it helps using the star line ear tips as well smoothing out the whole signature, but at the same time, ironically it does lose some clean details in the 2-5khz register, while the C12 presents it perfectly.
> 
> ...


So I tried the C12 with the starline tips and you are right. It brings the 2-5khz range down just enough to be in the tolerable range, giving it an overall better feeling of clarity. I still think it might be too foward for some, it's a much more exciting and engaging sound compared to the more relaxed ZSX. I still think the ZSX has a wider soundstage, and maybe a bit better separation. I would say the C12 is a direct upgrade to the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX targets a slightly different sound. ZSX for longer listening sessions, C12 for shorter more engaging sessions. Overall I still prefer the ZSX, it hurts my ears less lol


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Captainbeefturd said:


> Finally took the plunge with the zsx and glad I did. In a word I can't believe I'm saying this but better! Definitely more soundstage on the zsx and I feel better seperation (I was expecting a bit of a mess tbh) where the T3's still trump imo is the more natural timbre, there's still a slight steely sound on the KZ's and male vocals have a slightly more natural feel.


I think KZ has trademarked the steely sounding iem. I haven't heard another brand like it!


----------



## macky112

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZSX and my favourite KZ up to now has been the ZS7. But I have to say, even though it's early days, the ZSX is an improved version of the ZS7 with more resolution, a more extended treble and a wonderful soundstage. CCA C12 is more open and brighter which gives the impression of more detail and mid bass is not as pronounced as the ZSX so makes the C12 sound more balanced. ZSX sounds slightly warmer in tone and not fatiguing like the ZS10 Pro. I'm using stock cable and starline tips on both of them. I am enjoying both so far and I am not sure which I prefer!



I was afraid comments like this would surface... ZS7 has been my fav, must... resist...


----------



## alex5908

macky112 said:


> must... resist...


I am already struggling...  With myself, of course. Don't think I'll be able to resist.


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> U don't even need to take out your wallet nowadays LOL


True, dat! But since I keep my plastic in my wallet...gotta keep pulling it out to buy more stuff on Aliexpress. No such problem on Amazon. Just don't wanna permanently register my credit card info on Ali, because they are overseas and I don't wanna have to deal with foreign laws if my financial info gets hacked.


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> True, dat! But since I keep my plastic in my wallet...gotta keep pulling it out to buy more stuff on Aliexpress. No such problem on Amazon. Just don't wanna permanently register my credit card info on Ali, because they are overseas and I don't wanna have to deal with foreign laws if my financial info gets hacked.



Paypal?


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> Paypal?


Yeah, that's another option, but I don't like how long it takes to do transfers from my bank account, and that not all sellers accept it. I use a reloadable Mastercard for all my online purchases. I load that card each month at one of my financial institutions (with no fees), and that's what I can spend. Any online payments are made immediately and securely. It's much faster than PayPal and accepted worldwide at any store or website.


----------



## MacAttack7

I have to send my ZS10 Pro's back because the audio keeps cutting out. I actually think it's the jack that plugs into my iPod because sometimes if I tap it the sound will come back on. 
I thought it was google play cutting out, but after going back & forth between my ZS10 Pro's and an old Sony pair it's definitely the ZS10 Pro's cutting out, but again I think it's just the cord jack......not positive though.

So my question.........out of all the new KZ's & CCA's which one is the smallest & lightest, or which one fits smaller ears the best?
The ZS10 Pro fit pretty good (a little heavy but spinfits helped them to stay more snug), & they sound great, so I'll probably just order another pair unless one of the other's is smaller, lighter, or is known to fit smaller ears better.


----------



## baskingshark

MacAttack7 said:


> I have to send my ZS10 Pro's back because the audio keeps cutting out. I actually think it's the jack that plugs into my iPod because sometimes if I tap it the sound will come back on.
> I thought it was google play cutting out, but after going back & forth between my ZS10 Pro's and an old Sony pair it's definitely the ZS10 Pro's cutting out, but again I think it's just the cord jack......not positive though.
> 
> So my question.........out of all the new KZ's & CCA's which one is the smallest & lightest, or which one fits smaller ears the best?
> The ZS10 Pro fit pretty good (a little heavy but spinfits helped them to stay more snug), & they sound great, so I'll probably just order another pair unless one of the other's is smaller, lighter, or is known to fit smaller ears better.



U tried a different cable with your zs10 pro?
(Sounds like a cable issue) (no pun intended)

I don't have the zsx but from feedback and visually looking online it appears bigger in shell size than the zs10 pro.


----------



## 1clearhead

Seazer said:


> So I tried the C12 with the starline tips and you are right. It brings the 2-5khz range down just enough to be in the tolerable range, giving it an overall better feeling of clarity. I still think it might be too foward for some, it's a much more exciting and engaging sound compared to the more relaxed ZSX. I still think the ZSX has a wider soundstage, and maybe a bit better separation. I would say the C12 is a direct upgrade to the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX targets a slightly different sound. ZSX for longer listening sessions, C12 for shorter more engaging sessions. Overall I still prefer the ZSX, it hurts my ears less lol


Overall, I think both are great! That's why I personally have both. Love the C12, but I can't do without the ZSX as well. Both are my budget kings, if you ask me!
So far, after burning both in past 100 hours, I can honestly say that both KZ and CCA did a very good job on getting rid of that annoying metallic sound. In the end, they sound very organic and natural and slightly different from each other, IMHO.

Budget kings?  ...maybe?


-Clear


----------



## MacAttack7

baskingshark said:


> U tried a different cable with your zs10 pro?
> (Sounds like a cable issue) (no pun intended)
> 
> I don't have the zsx but from feedback and visually looking online it appears bigger in shell size than the zs10 pro.


I don't own another cable that would fit. Luckily I still have time to return to Amazon & get a new pair. I'd gladly just exchange them, but I guess Amazon only does returns.


----------



## 1clearhead

MacAttack7 said:


> I have to send my ZS10 Pro's back because the audio keeps cutting out. I actually think it's the jack that plugs into my iPod because sometimes if I tap it the sound will come back on.
> I thought it was google play cutting out, but after going back & forth between my ZS10 Pro's and an old Sony pair it's definitely the ZS10 Pro's cutting out, but again I think it's just the cord jack......not positive though.
> 
> So my question.........out of all the new KZ's & CCA's which one is the smallest & lightest, or which one fits smaller ears the best?
> The ZS10 Pro fit pretty good (a little heavy but spinfits helped them to stay more snug), & they sound great, so I'll probably just order another pair unless one of the other's is smaller, lighter, or is known to fit smaller ears better.


I would say, give the C12 a shot! ...Incredibly light and thin for a 12 driver IEM!


----------



## emeraldstone

MacAttack7 said:


> I don't own another cable that would fit. Luckily I still have time to return to Amazon & get a new pair. I'd gladly just exchange them, but I guess Amazon only does returns.


Usually if something is "Sold by seller_name_here and fullfilled by Amazon", Amazon is only able to do returns as it is not sold by themselves (they just help store the product for the seller and perform the shipping). The good thing is that refunds from Amazon are usallly pretty quick as you would just ship them to a local warehouse.


----------



## tusharthegamer

i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?


----------



## Seazer

MacAttack7 said:


> I have to send my ZS10 Pro's back because the audio keeps cutting out. I actually think it's the jack that plugs into my iPod because sometimes if I tap it the sound will come back on.
> I thought it was google play cutting out, but after going back & forth between my ZS10 Pro's and an old Sony pair it's definitely the ZS10 Pro's cutting out, but again I think it's just the cord jack......not positive though.
> 
> So my question.........out of all the new KZ's & CCA's which one is the smallest & lightest, or which one fits smaller ears the best?
> The ZS10 Pro fit pretty good (a little heavy but spinfits helped them to stay more snug), & they sound great, so I'll probably just order another pair unless one of the other's is smaller, lighter, or is known to fit smaller ears better.


The CCA C12 is pretty marginally bigger than the zs10 pro. Its similarly shaped for sure. The zsx is definitely bigger, the zs10 pro is still probably the smallest of the 3 though


----------



## Seazer (Sep 16, 2019)

tusharthegamer said:


> i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?


Under 20? I don't know if I would call it balanced but my favorite kz under 20 is probably the ZS3. Otherwise if you can deal with the extremely short cable (I use an es100 so its fine) I would get the Sony MH755 as the budget kings under $20. If you cant deal with the short cable you also could get one of those female to male audio extension cable to lengthen the cable for cheap. You can get legit MH755 for about $6, you just got to be careful of fakes. The ones I got from this seller were real though. They sound rather incredible for the price. Extremely low distortion and a nice balance of sound, without sounding anemic like the T2 sounds to some people

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/401711764387


----------



## Nimweth

macky112 said:


> I was afraid comments like this would surface... ZS7 has been my fav, must... resist...


Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated! Lol.


----------



## Nimweth

tusharthegamer said:


> i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?


Try the ED9 with the dull brass nozzles and wide bore tips. Excellent balanced sound for very little money.


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 16, 2019)

tusharthegamer said:


> i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?



Well it's not exactly a KZ, but the **** is quite value for money at $16 - 17ish USD. Good clarity, instrument separation and soundstage. And the subbass is not too bad.
If u are OCD about timbre for acoustic instruments (like brass/woodwind/strings) then those sound a bit artificial on the ****, but otherwise for genres like EDM, rock, pop, it is extremely capable. Scales better if u have an amp as the piezo drivers handling the treble won't sound that good out of a smartphone (they require quite some juice contrary to the sensitivity/impedance specs on paper).


----------



## jeromeaparis (Sep 16, 2019)

tusharthegamer said:


> i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?


It is not the in ear phones that are balanced - symetrical, but the connection cable & plug (ex: 2.5mm)
and if you do not have a good iem, you wil not hear the difference balanced - unbalanced.

The best good low cost iem is the ZSN purple or ZSN pro at 15$ on aliexpress
you buy on ebay or alie a 2.5mm 4 contacts plug about 2$
and ask a friend who likes electronic for a little soldering help...
total 17$

otherwise find a saturday afternoon job and as said before buy the  balanced  cable
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33039401362.html
total cost 30$

Even better, if you can switch off the screens, find a WE job outside,
buy the ZSX on ebay + previous balanced cable
total 55$


----------



## kailashrs

tusharthegamer said:


> i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?



ZSN Pro?


----------



## mbwilson111

jeromeaparis said:


> is not the in ear phones that are balanced - symetrical, but the connection cable & plug (ex: 2.5mm)
> and if you do not have a good iem, you wil not hear the difference balanced - unbalanced.



I assumed he meant a balanced sounding IEM.    As for using a balanced connection I have a balanced cable on one of my ZSNs and am happy with it.  Three of my daps have balanced output.



tusharthegamer said:


> i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?





Nimweth said:


> Try the ED9 with the dull brass nozzles and wide bore tips. Excellent balanced sound for very little money.



When I first read the original post I was thinking ED9 with the dull brass nozzle.  Nimweth beat me to it.   I enjoy my ED9 with the brass nozzle.  I actually prefer simple iems that are worn cable down.  The over ear type take me longer to put in and are thus a nuisance if I have to take them in and out .


----------



## Detectit

hakuzen said:


> pp
> 
> each side of the iem only receives 2 signals, positive and ground/negative (single-ended/balanced). so the number of cores required is the same on both modes, regardless of they are soldered to same jack contact (shared ground) or not.



Ahhh ok thanks.... Ordered the 8 core... Can't go wrong and read in your reports that 16 core has more chance of resistance than 8 core.

I will measure the Kbear when it arrives.


----------



## DynamicEars (Sep 16, 2019)

I didn't expect my KZ ZSX came faster than my BQEYZ Spring 1.

Well, out of the box with my BT20 and spiral dots that i bring along with my tfz no 3, they sounds very good.
First thing i want to check and confirm is tonality. Maybe im 1 of picky person about steely timbre of KZ. And with KZ ZSX i agree with other comments that this ZSX are different from previous KZ. I can say its passable for my criteria of timbre. Not very great or sounds natural/organic, but quite good, well for KZ maybe the best one. On higher notes i still can hear a little bit steely / metallic sounding but just a little.

Sub bass is very good in texture (again for budget chifi class), with deep extension, good amount for me. Mid bass is south of sub bass in quantity. A very very minor to none mid bass bleed.
Bass decay is normal towards slow with nice rumble

Into the mids, mids are not recessed but i would like more forwarded mids (in comparison tfz no 3 and bqeyz kb100 have more forwarded mids). Clarity is good but not great. Lower mids overwhelmed by upper mids. And upper mids on higher notes can be a little shouty at around 3-6khz. Not as bad as previous kz, still safe but in borderline of harshness on high volume (again tuning is good, maybe its just limitation of their BAs or maybe damper is needed) so females voices on higher notes have tendency to be shouty or any solo / main instrument at that frequencies.

Highs is very good. Sparkles and extension are good without fatiguing. ZS10 pro sounds brighter on 8-12khz in comparison. Have a bit glaring but thats minor.

Fit isnt as bad as they looked on photos. Actual unit ismt as big as my imagination. Zs10 regular not pro still bigger i guess. And that weird shield shape shell cover also arent touch your any ear parts at all.

Separation is very good here. Maybe the strongest point of ZSX. They handle complex tracks better than most budget iems. With good details too

Soundstage is wide on ZSX, with some depth and little height. Can be on par with Kanas Pro But imaging is nothing special here, I can hear roughly where the instrument at, but still blurry, not very accurate rendered. Good job on delivering this very good soundstage on plastic/resin shell.

So for the price, they are very very good. Definitely best KZ for me until today. If im forced to only choose 1 KZ only in my collection i wont think long enough and grab the ZSX.

Please remember that was my early impressions out of the box. I have yet to burn in them. I expect tighter bass but maybe on mids and highs parts wont be so much different because they are handled by BAs.


----------



## Detectit

DynamicEars said:


> I didn't expect my KZ ZSX came faster than my BQEYZ Spring 1.
> 
> Well, out of the box with my BT20 and spiral dots that i bring along with my tfz no 3, they sounds very good.
> First thing i want to check and confirm is tonality. Maybe im 1 of picky person about steely timbre of KZ. And with KZ ZSX i agree with other comments that this ZSX are different from previous KZ. I can say its passable for my criteria of timbre. Not very great or sounds natural/organic, but quite good, well for KZ maybe the best one. On higher notes i still can hear a little bit steely / metallic sounding but just a little.
> ...



Nice review.... But are those adapters that I see on the TRN Bluetooth units.?


----------



## DynamicEars

Detectit said:


> Nice review.... But are those adapters that I see on the TRN Bluetooth units.?



no there are no adapters used there, just plug it directly from KZ ZSX to TRN BT20 bluetooth module. But because of the different connector (ZSX use 2 pin Para C type connector, and that TRN BT20 similar to 2 pin para B) so they are a bit sticking out. Yes I hate this look also, but no other choice since TRN only come out with this type or mmcx


----------



## Podster

So Lockheed has the SR-71 and I have the M-71 I believe this song title says it all for these babies


----------



## Captainbeefturd

tusharthegamer said:


> i am looking for a balanced IEM under 20$ from KZ. Any recommendations?


I'd say the CCA C10 sounds pretty ballanced to my ears their £19 on Ali so maybe 23usd, worth the stretch for a pretty sorted 5 driver IEM


----------



## Detectit (Sep 16, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> no there are no adapters used there, just plug it directly from KZ ZSX to TRN BT20 bluetooth module. But because of the different connector (ZSX use 2 pin Para C type connector, and that TRN BT20 similar to 2 pin para B) so they are a bit sticking out. Yes I hate this look also, but no other choice since TRN only come out with this type or mmcx



Ahhh it looked like it because on the picture it looks like there is transparant plastic. Or there is and put it yourself there.


----------



## DynamicEars

Detectit said:


> Ahhh it looked like it because on the picture it looks like there is transparant plastic. Or there is and put it yourself there.



the transparent plastic is the female housing of ZSX connector, they are sticking out by default and the cable which has male connector, should has cover to protect that female housing. Its called 2 pin Para C


----------



## nappiguan

Whats wrong with just clipping the two long pins so the fit is tight?


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> So Lockheed has the SR-71 and I have the M-71 I believe this song title says it all for these babies


That's a nice gold cable, it would look great on my C12 lol. Where did you get it?


----------



## TechnoidFR

macky112 said:


> I was afraid comments like this would surface... ZS7 has been my fav, must... resist...



For me, each Iem have his personality. I love the zs7 personality, but with the same approach than zs7 I prefer **** Topaz.

ZSX is more refined, less ample, more balanced. It's different


----------



## Slater (Sep 16, 2019)

Captainbeefturd said:


> ...so maybe 23usd, worth the stretch for a pretty sorted 5 driver IEM



Just a thought that popped into my head when I read your statement...

If anyone had said that exact same statement 5-6 years ago, they would have been laughed out of HeadFi and committed to the looney bin lol

And now here we are today, with the ability to buy 5, 6, and even 8 driver IEMs with braided SPC removable cables for $40-$70. Not to mention planar IEMs.

What a time to be alive


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> That's a nice gold cable, it would look great on my C12 lol. Where did you get it?



Thats a silver colored TRN 16-core cable.

It’s a beautiful cable - made well, looks badass, flexible and soft, and has a cool silver carbon fiber plug.


----------



## Nimweth

Ah! I already have one of those! I'm looking for a gold coloured one for the C12! The silver one looks great with my ZSX.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> Ah! I already have one of those! I'm looking for a gold coloured one for the C12! The silver one looks great with my ZSX.



Hey Nim, not sure if TRN makes it in a gold color! Senor Slater is correct mine is more of a Pewter gray but indeed a nice cable. Can't tell you who I got it from either or I could be erased


----------



## Captainbeefturd

Slater said:


> Just a thought that popped into my head when I read your statement...
> 
> If anyone had said that exact same statement 5-6 years ago, they would have been laughed out of HeadFi and committed to the looney bin lol
> 
> ...


Sent from 

Thank you China, an embodyment of how communism (small c) can work for the people. Can't see 'western' companies (Sennheiser, Beats, Shure, Sony etc etc) making such budgetary sacrifice to make products even close in quality for even 3 times the price. I'd say I'm glossing over their labour costs but most of the above make their products in China anyway


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

rayliam80 said:


> I received my ZS7 a week ago from Amazon.



Woah. What kind of tips are those?


----------



## Podster (Sep 16, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Woah. What kind of tips are those?



Triple flangers, PM me a mailing address and I'll send you half dozen





@Slater , not just multi BA iem's but Chi-Fi in general


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Captainbeefturd said:


> I'd say the CCA C10 sounds pretty ballanced to my ears their £19 on Ali so maybe 23usd, worth the stretch for a pretty sorted 5 driver IEM



Listen to this man. I just went through about 30 pages of this thread, and people are extolling the virtues of the C10 in its price category. It seems to have a polite and somewhat relaxed sound, decent bass with good detail for the price. It's worth going the extra $3.

[It's warmer than some of the other KZ alternatives, and more 'fun,' so it's less neutral but fairly pleasing.]


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Hey Nim, not sure if TRN makes it in a gold color! Senor Slater is correct mine is more of a Pewter gray but indeed a nice cable. Can't tell you who I got it from either or I could be erased


Yes, mine is more of a pewter colour, got it from Amazon under the Linsoul category.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans (Sep 16, 2019)

BTW after reading about the C10, it sounds like something I would like. ('warm,' 'fun,' 'not too harsh' 'detailed').

But people are saying good things about the much pricier C16, and especially the C12. Are they just a total overall improvement over the C10 / ZS-10 Pro?


----------



## rayliam80

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Woah. What kind of tips are those?



Triple flange tips. Deep insertion method.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 16, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> That's a nice gold cable, it would look great on my C12 lol. Where did you get it?





Nimweth said:


> Ah! I already have one of those! I'm looking for a gold coloured one for the C12! The silver one looks great with my ZSX.



Like this?







On aliexpress you can search for  Newest TRN copper and silver mixed updated cable

Mine is the gold 2.5 2pin 0.75mm option... because I wanted to use this C12 with my balanced sources.  I have an adapter for when I want to use a dap that has only single ended output.  I would rather use an adapter than to stress the pin connections by constantly switching cables.


----------



## Nimweth

mbwilson111 said:


> Like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's great, thanks, I will look into that!


----------



## macky112

1clearhead said:


> Overall, I think both are great! That's why I personally have both. Love the C12, but I can't do without the ZSX as well. Both are my budget kings, if you ask me!
> So far, after burning both in past 100 hours, I can honestly say that both KZ and CCA did a very good job on getting rid of that annoying metallic sound. In the end, they sound very organic and natural and slightly different from each other, IMHO.
> 
> Budget kings?  ...maybe?
> ...



which one is the better option for a bass head?


----------



## mbwilson111

Nimweth said:


> That's great, thanks, I will look into that!



Keep in mind that it is not the paragraph C.. so if you look you will see the gap... but I don't mind it.  It is not too obvious with the lighter colored iem and cable connectors.... but it is only around 6 pound at the moment.


----------



## Podster

Here's a tribute, Pod remembers driving to school with his best friend senior year and just jamming to these guys. Ric's joining Ben now, RIP Boys!


----------



## Captainbeefturd

ShakeThoseCans said:


> BTW after reading about the C10, it sounds like something I would like. ('warm,' 'fun,' 'not too harsh' 'detailed').
> 
> But people are saying good things about the much pricier C16, and especially the C12. Are they just a total overall improvement over the C10 / ZS-10 Pro?


Sent from

The C10's a solid IEM, its an 'easy' listen suits most/all genres. For $23-25 their rediculous. I have all of the above the c12 may have a touch of symblance if your sensitive and looking for a warm ballanced. The c16's quite a hike in $'s wouldn't say its an ever day easy listen but has something......unique to its overall sound, find them very energetic being only BA' s but not as sharp as some muli driver BA's, is more suited to critical listening, it has its place and good value for what it is, preferably over the kz as16 imo. Worth having if your hording like I do


----------



## Seazer

macky112 said:


> which one is the better option for a bass head?


They both have about the same amount of bass. I think The C12 has a more energetic and forward 2-5khz, while the ZSX has a more laid back and smooth 2-5khz. I think soundstage is better on the ZSX.


----------



## Mouseman

I received my ZSXs today (along with my midnight blue V90s, what a happy day! ). I plugged them into a balanced cable, I'll skip the stock one altogether. Started to listen on the R5 and I actually had to dial the bass down a bit on the MSEB from where it was! The soundstage on these is outstanding - wide and deep, stretching out in all directions. 

The comfort is substantially better than I'd expected, they're not as big as I thought, and the shell is nicely contured. But the sound - oh my goodness. Guitars and cymbals dance around in the soundfield. Bass and mids are impactful and full of body. Highs sparkle but aren't metallic or fatiguing. I'm not sure if I can lay down in them without too much ear pressure - they aren't small, but hey - I can prop my head up on some pillows.


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> They both have about the same amount of bass. I think The C12 has a more energetic and forward 2-5khz, while the ZSX has a more laid back and smooth 2-5khz. I think soundstage is better on the ZSX.



I still found sharp/harshness on ZSX, more over on 3-6khz areas, lucky i dont order C12 instead. and they have a bit glaring. Its their BA limitation i think, or i would like to down a bit that high mids. Soundstage is very good in ZSX.



Mouseman said:


> I received my ZSXs today (along with my midnight blue V90s, what a happy day! ). I plugged them into a balanced cable, I'll skip the stock one altogether. Started to listen on the R5 and I actually had to dial the bass down a bit on the MSEB from where it was! The soundstage on these is outstanding - wide and deep, stretching out in all directions.
> 
> The comfort is substantially better than I'd expected, they're not as big as I thought, and the shell is nicely contured. But the sound - oh my goodness. Guitars and cymbals dance around in the soundfield. Bass and mids are impactful and full of body. Highs sparkle but aren't metallic or fatiguing. I'm not sure if I can lay down in them without too much ear pressure - they aren't small, but hey - I can prop my head up on some pillows.



about to order V90 as well but hesitate because from what I read, they are more like sidegrade to ZSX. how do you find your zsx and V90 in comparison. Which one do you prefer more?


----------



## voicemaster

Captainbeefturd said:


> Sent from
> 
> Thank you China, an embodyment of how communism (small c) can work for the people. Can't see 'western' companies (Sennheiser, Beats, Shure, Sony etc etc) making such budgetary sacrifice to make products even close in quality for even 3 times the price. I'd say I'm glossing over their labour costs but most of the above make their products in China anyway



Meanwhile Apple...


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Captainbeefturd said:


> Sent from
> 
> The C10's a solid IEM, its an 'easy' listen suits most/all genres. For $23-25 their rediculous. I have all of the above the c12 may have a touch of symblance if your sensitive and looking for a warm ballanced. The c16's quite a hike in $'s wouldn't say its an ever day easy listen but has something......unique to its overall sound, find them very energetic being only BA' s but not as sharp as some muli driver BA's, is more suited to critical listening, it has its place and good value for what it is, preferably over the kz as16 imo. Worth having if your hording like I do



Thanks, Captainbeefturd. I'm looking right now for an IEM I can use on transit, so it needs to have good noise isolation. I have a KZ7, which has powerful sound and some isolation, but I have fit issues. Is the isolation on the C10 good? Right now, I'm looking at the C12 for 11.11


----------



## Captainbeefturd

voicemaster said:


> Meanwhile Apple...


Yes indeed also made in China


----------



## Captainbeefturd

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Thanks, Captainbeefturd. I'm looking right now for an IEM I can use on transit, so it needs to have good noise isolation. I have a KZ7, which has powerful sound and some isolation, but I have fit issues. Is the isolation on the C10 good? Right now, I'm looking at the C12 for 11.11




C10 has excellent isolation in my ears, maybe an easier fit than the zs7 which can be a little lumpy I thought. Perfect for throwing around, usual kz  build quality and cheap


----------



## nraymond

voicemaster said:


> Meanwhile Apple...



Meanwhile I get a kick anytime people on the internet make armchair conjectures about how international businesses are run and extrapolate grand conclusions without actually having detailed understandings of what's going on. Very entertaining.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I might pick up a C10 while I wait for the 11.11 sale.



DynamicEars said:


> about to order V90 as well but hesitate because from what I read, they are more like sidegrade to ZSX. how do you find your zsx and V90 in comparison. Which one do you prefer more?



This is going to be my dilemma during 11.11. I enjoy the V80, and if the V90 is a straight up upgrade, I will be inclined towards that.


----------



## SinisterDev

Podster said:


> Triple flangers, PM me a mailing address and I'll send you half dozen
> 
> 
> 
> @Slater , not just multi BA iem's but Chi-Fi in general



Awesome! Two questions : how are those triple flanged ear tips? Never tried them before! And what is that sexy cable you have connected to the ZS7's in the middle there?


----------



## Podster

SinisterDev said:


> Awesome! Two questions : how are those triple flanged ear tips? Never tried them before! And what is that sexy cable you have connected to the ZS7's in the middle there?



Triple flange are nice especially if you don’t mind deep insertion. That cable on the ZS7’s is TRN’s new 16 core.


----------



## Seazer

SinisterDev said:


> Awesome! Two questions : how are those triple flanged ear tips? Never tried them before! And what is that sexy cable you have connected to the ZS7's in the middle there?


Triple flanged makes me feel like I'm being violated by my iems lol


----------



## nraymond

Seazer said:


> Triple flanged makes me feel like I'm being violated by my iems lol



Flanged for pleasure?


----------



## Seazer

DynamicEars said:


> I still found sharp/harshness on ZSX, more over on 3-6khz areas, lucky i dont order C12 instead. and they have a bit glaring. Its their BA limitation i think, or i would like to down a bit that high mids. Soundstage is very good in ZSX.
> 
> 
> 
> about to order V90 as well but hesitate because from what I read, they are more like sidegrade to ZSX. how do you find your zsx and V90 in comparison. Which one do you prefer more?


Funny thing how we find different things painful. I you have the TFZ No 3 right? I love the bass on them but they are also honestly the most painful iems I've ever heard. I something in the upper midrange/lower treble just screeches to me. Ive burnt them in for like 80 hours and while I love the bass and they have good resolution, I almost get a nails on chalkboard feeling when I listen to them lol. Maybe I need to burn them in more but I really want to like them

I see they have an 8k spike so maybe that's it. Im afraid to try the Kansas pro or kxxs because of the tfz, but but maybe they won't hurt because they don't have the same 8k spike.


----------



## DynamicEars (Sep 17, 2019)

Seazer said:


> Funny thing how we find different things painful. I you have the TFZ No 3 right? I love the bass on them but they are also honestly the most painful iems I've ever heard. I something in the upper midrange/lower treble just screeches to me. Ive burnt them in for like 80 hours and while I love the bass and they have good resolution, I almost get a nails on chalkboard feeling when I listen to them lol. Maybe I need to burn them in more but I really want to like them
> 
> I see they have an 8k spike so maybe that's it. Im afraid to try the Kansas pro or kxxs because of the tfz, but but maybe they won't hurt because they don't have the same 8k spike.



no, the TFZ is bright at 8khz, yes that 8khz spike, its on treble side, particularly on cymbals, while ZSX are safe from 8khz but more peak on 3-6khz (its the region of female vocal, when shouting, very shouty, or instrument on that frequencies, trumpet, harmonica are most painful). my ZSX still on burning, they are a bit smoother, i will update later on.
I have Kanas Pro as well, the 8khz are safer than no3, bass isnt as big as no3, but lower mids can be a bit thin side, and lack of mid bass.

every iem have their pros and cons
for me
KZX
+wide soundstage
+very good separation
+balance sound (with note i would like if 3-6khz more tone down)
+easy to drive
+detail
+handles better on complex tracks (advantage of multi driver)
-3-6khz can be too shouty
-clarity while good for this class, not as good as tfz no 3 / Kanas Pro
-not so smooth sounding

TFZ no 3
+clarity that transparent
+sub bass
+ mid bass fullness and speed
+fast decay
+detail
-standard soundstage
-mid bass are too much for me, hence not so balance

Kanas Pro
+transparent very clear, 1 of clearest I've heard
+wide soundstage
+great sub bass
-lack of mid bass, lower mids affected, a bit thin
-2.5-3khz achilles hill that can be shouty, more forward than other frequencies
-congested on busy tracks

thats more or less about those 3 iems. I know its hard to look for your perfect iem for price under $500, above that all iems less cons, but there are nothing perfect, all you can do is find one that suit you the most with minimum cons.


----------



## Headphones and Coffee

ZSX is in my opinion the best KZ so far, I've owned almost everything starting with the ZST. I realize they have the AS12 -16 but I'm really liking the ZSX sound signature.


----------



## DynamicEars

Wretched Stare said:


> ZSX is in my opinion the best KZ so far, I've owned almost everything starting with the ZST. I realize they have the AS12 -16 but I'm really liking the ZSX sound signature.



I wont hesitate to say that too. Best KZ to date = ZSX. period.


----------



## MacAttack7

Wretched Stare said:


> ZSX is in my opinion the best KZ so far, I've owned almost everything starting with the ZST. I realize they have the AS12 -16 but I'm really liking the ZSX sound signature.


Which KZ out of what you owned is the best-fitting, most comfortable?


----------



## darmanastartes

Detectit said:


> Just wanna thank you for the comprehensive and detailed information on so many cables.
> 
> Do you have any experience with KB Ear cables?
> I am looking for balanced for the KZ ZSX. So I belive its qdc... But I have some other KZ items so maybe it's easier to buy the two pin version?
> ...


I just bought the 8 core cable with QDC connectors a few days ago, I will post in the cheap cable thread whether they fit the ZSX.


----------



## Headphones and Coffee

MacAttack7 said:


> Which KZ out of what you owned is the best-fitting, most comfortable?


That's going to depend on what size your ears are if your ears are smaller than probably one of their smaller ones but average sized ears I would say that the zsx is probably the most comfortable one because of its ergonomic design.


----------



## MacAttack7

Wretched Stare said:


> That's going to depend on what size your ears are if your ears are smaller than probably one of their smaller ones but average sized ears I would say that the zsx is probably the most comfortable one because of its ergonomic design.


I have pretty small ears. Had to send my KZ ZS10 Pro's back due to sound cutting out, and they were so-so in the fit dept. Trying to decide if I should order another pair or if there is something else that has a similar good sound that would fit better. The ZS10 Pro's fit good enough, but they did protrude quite a bit & were just a little heavy,


----------



## Podster

DynamicEars said:


> I wont hesitate to say that too. Best KZ to date = ZSX. period.



Dang you guys are killin' me, sure hope I can wait for 11/11 So as much as I love my 6/7's and Pro's for me the all BA BA10 is KZ's best to date but of course as I always say we ALL hear them differently but for me the BA10 is just so balanced across the spectrum and I'm obviously not any kind of bass hound I started into this hobby as a Pod man and still think they deliver the goods even if I do hate Apple LOL






Still for a Hybrid these held high ground for a long time and only beat out by the refinement of the 7's, like so many KZ's they really draw down on favored models quickly once the gallery here starts chirping (just like taking the ZS3 and refining it into the 4's which by the way @MacAttack7 are still my best fitting KZ's to date) Of course it backfires on them on occasion like the ZS5 V2 still can't hold a candle to the V1 IMO of course we all know what those are like right


----------



## 1clearhead

mbwilson111 said:


> Like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a beauty! This is a first seeing them from a customers personal pick. You win the golden trophy!


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> Like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Howdy MB, was wondering if there is a big difference in this cable and the one TRN released several months back? Like the ones I have on my "Iron Man" ZS4's here





Or the black and silver version


----------



## mbwilson111

Podster said:


> Howdy MB, was wondering if there is a big difference in this cable and the one TRN released several months back? Like the ones I have on my "Iron Man" ZS4's here
> 
> 
> 
> Or the black and silver version



I  have no idea.  Depends on whether or not mine is actually updated from the ones that did not have all the wires attached.  The ones that @Slater dissected.

This one does measure correctly.  It is the 8 core.


----------



## Podster

mbwilson111 said:


> I  have no idea.  Depends on whether or not mine is actually updated from the ones that did not have all the wires attached.  The ones that @Slater dissected.
> 
> This one does measure correctly.  It is the 8 core.



Cool, these are 8 cores and look identical down to the yoke and connectors so I'm guessing they are the same cable, had no trouble out of mine but that dang TRN had to come out with those beautiful Pewter 16 cores and sucker that I am for a pretty face It's only money and of course everyone knows "God gave Rock-N-Roll to you"/Us and aesthetics do count


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 17, 2019)

macky112 said:


> which one is the better option for a bass head?


To get an idea "which is the better option for a bass head?" ...Might be more of a break down on "what kind of bass are you looking to satisfy your senses?" They are both similar in lower bass punch, but technically they sound a little different. The C12 has a faster extended bass punch due to the balanced upper midrange and extended treble, while the ZSX has a low extended bass rumble effect due to the ZSX's laid back midrange and smoothed-out treble (if using the star line ear tips on both models). Overall, they are both great in my book! But, what greatly differs is the housing and look on both. 1) Small ears? Then, your best bet is to go for the C12. 2) Medium ears? That's probably a "toss-up" making your own personal choice on comfort or size for one or the other. 3) Large ears? Either might be okay according to the large size of ear fitting tips you decide to go with.


Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## emeraldstone

MacAttack7 said:


> I have pretty small ears. Had to send my KZ ZS10 Pro's back due to sound cutting out, and they were so-so in the fit dept. Trying to decide if I should order another pair or if there is something else that has a similar good sound that would fit better. The ZS10 Pro's fit good enough, but they did protrude quite a bit & were just a little heavy,


I'll be getting the KZ ZSX in a week so I may be able to provide input (the Shure SE215 is already a fairly large IEM for me) when I receive it but the ZSX has a "bump" near the 2-pin connector so it may help or hurt the fit depending on how big your ear is. If it's an Amazon storefront that has free returns, it wouldn't hurt to give the ZSX a try.


----------



## citral23 (Sep 17, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> You just might be surprised how good earbuds can be for music.  I have some that remind me of a good open backed headphone.



Back from holidays some *shallnotbenamed* BK2 were in my mailbox, I took them to work with the intent to use them for calls.

Boom, blown away. Incredible sound for 20€, absolutely incredible. So I use them for music too for now, as the office is quiet, would revert to iems if it gets loud and crowded but man, this is relaxing with the big soundstage and I never thought a bass could be so deep and textured on earbuds.

So down the rabbit hole, further we go, purchased a pair of nicehck EBX which should sound even better.

Always preferred open earphones to closed back, and it has a bit the same feel, love it.

I think this is money much better spent than getting more cheapos IEMs tbh (meh ZSX), different experience vs more of the same.


----------



## Assimilator702

Here’s a side by side for those concerned with housing sizes. As you can see the ZS10 PRO is shorter and wider while the ZSX is longer and thinner. ZSX feels more secure in my ears.


----------



## MacAttack7

Which one protrudes more from the ear, and which one is heavier?
My ZS10 Pro fit just fine & was no problem when I was sitting, but when I went for a walk I'd sometimes feel like I needed to push on them every now & then......even though I'm sure I was being ocd half the time. The spinfit tips helped make the fit more snug.


----------



## Seazer

MacAttack7 said:


> Which one protrudes more from the ear, and which one is heavier?
> My ZS10 Pro fit just fine & was no problem when I was sitting, but when I went for a walk I'd sometimes feel like I needed to push on them every now & then......even though I'm sure I was being ocd half the time. The spinfit tips helped make the fit more snug.



The Zs10 pro would also get loose like you describe. The weight distribution and stabilizing fin/nub helps keep the ZSX in my ear better than the Zs10 pro


----------



## Captainbeefturd

Apologies in advance folks  I'm about to gush!!!! 

Maybe some slightly 'influenced' late night ramblings and I'm sure many have realised this (if sourced well) but if you guys are still on the zxs treadmill I've  just taken delivery of my TempoTecec idsd plus (basically Hidizs DH1000 with nicer volume keys). #### These are phenomenally capable IEM's with the right DAC. Sourced from either my s10 or fiio m6 I'd playing plane vanilla Flac (currently In Rainbows one of my test albums) I'd swear I was listening to a £1000+ set up (take the away the overpriced Samsung as essentially a slave source) the soundstage is rediculously wide and tall, its playing every frequency sublimely with detail and placement (and everything else for that matter) placed just so! Nothing messy, no 'weird' budget kz Ness, graty noises, messy transitions between drivers just ####ing sorted. Set up costing £150 essiantially shouldn't sound like this. To put it in perspective my AKG 752 pro's arn't even sounding comparable to my ears and that includes sound stage (open backs!!).
As the £30-40 link in the chain that's just bonkers

Sorry again, carry on


----------



## Captainbeefturd

Wretched Stare said:


> ZSX is in my opinion the best KZ so far, I've owned almost everything starting with the ZST. I realize they have the AS12 -16 but I'm really liking the ZSX sound signature.


Haven't heard the as12 but certainly prefer them to the As16 just have a bit more of everything imo. Kz really do gift us with their bonkers pricing and marketing sometimes lol0


----------



## baskingshark

Captainbeefturd said:


> Apologies in advance folks  I'm about to gush!!!!
> 
> Maybe some slightly 'influenced' late night ramblings and I'm sure many have realised this (if sourced well) but if you guys are still on the zxs treadmill I've  just taken delivery of my TempoTecec idsd plus (basically Hidizs DH1000 with nicer volume keys). #### These are phenomenally capable IEM's with the right DAC. Sourced from either my s10 or fiio m6 I'd playing plane vanilla Flac (currently In Rainbows one of my test albums) I'd swear I was listening to a £1000+ set up (take the away the overpriced Samsung as essentially a slave source) the soundstage is rediculously wide and tall, its playing every frequency sublimely with detail and placement (and everything else for that matter) placed just so! Nothing messy, no 'weird' budget kz Ness, graty noises, messy transitions between drivers just ####ing sorted. Set up costing £150 essiantially shouldn't sound like this. To put it in perspective my AKG 752 pro's arn't even sounding comparable to my ears and that includes sound stage (open backs!!).
> As the £30-40 link in the chain that's just bonkers
> ...



Definitely agree with u that a well tuned IEM/headphone can scale better with a good DAP/DAC/AMP compared to just using a low end smartphone.
I rather take the hassle of carrying an extra USB DAC/AMP cable or DAP with me when I am on the go than just using my smartphone to play music, however inconvenient it is to bring extra stuff along. Disclaimer: I don't own any of the LG line quad DAC smartphones so maybe they might be an all in one solution for portable listening.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Definitely agree with u that a well tuned IEM/headphone can scale better with a good DAP/DAC/AMP compared to just using a low end smartphone.
> I rather take the hassle of carrying an extra USB DAC/AMP cable or DAP with me when I am on the go than just using my smartphone to play music, however inconvenient it is to bring extra stuff along. Disclaimer: I don't own any of the LG line quad DAC smartphones so maybe they might be an all in one solution for portable listening.


The lg phones are definitely better than all other smartphones but they are still bad compared to even the hidizs ap80 which is a low tier dap.


----------



## Captainbeefturd

baskingshark said:


> Definitely agree with u that a well tuned IEM/headphone can scale better with a good DAP/DAC/AMP compared to just using a low end smartphone.
> I rather take the hassle of carrying an extra USB DAC/AMP cable or DAP with me when I am on the go than just using my smartphone to play music, however inconvenient it is to bring extra stuff along. Disclaimer: I don't own any of the LG line quad DAC smartphones so maybe they might be an all in one solution for portable listening.



Agreed totally and had they not been as superbly tuned I think the high quality (dual Sabre DAC and amp) would have exposed floors, instead it's just refined more, given more of everything good. Seriously notably better than some £300 (once apon a time-granted they are hard to drive) open back cans, that shouldn't happen!


----------



## Headphones and Coffee (Sep 18, 2019)

Having more than one phone , I can definitely say my Motorola sounds hideous compared to the LG even using Bluetooth.  But definitely not a replacement for a good DAC Amp or a DAP.


----------



## CrazyDelta

What budget portable DAC would you guys recommend for a low end smartphone with a pair of KZs?


----------



## baskingshark

CrazyDelta said:


> What budget portable DAC would you guys recommend for a low end smartphone with a pair of KZs?



I use the Hidizs/Tempotec Sonata HD USB DAC/AMP with my lowend smart phone. Flashed to mode D which gives the best sound quality.


----------



## HungryPanda

Es100 all the way if you want bluetooth


----------



## Nimweth

I am ready to post my review of the ZSX but there is no section in the showcase. Can someone provide a place to post the review in the correct place? Thanks!


----------



## Crandall

Nimweth said:


> I am ready to post my review of the ZSX but there is no section in the showcase. Can someone provide a place to post the review in the correct place? Thanks!


I've made an entry in the gear section here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsx.23948/


----------



## baskingshark

Nimweth said:


> I am ready to post my review of the ZSX but there is no section in the showcase. Can someone provide a place to post the review in the correct place? Thanks!



Wow you will have the honour of posting the first KZ terminator review on headfi!


----------



## Nimweth

Crandall said:


> I've made an entry in the gear section here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsx.23948/


Thank you! I will be posting my review soon.


----------



## revand

CrazyDelta said:


> What budget portable DAC would you guys recommend for a low end smartphone with a pair of KZs?




 

For USD 50 this is an excellent solution. Bad news is the maker sent me a message that they are out of stock at this moment...


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> Es100 all the way if you want bluetooth



I have a feeling if we all wait just a we bit longer this will surpass his ES100! However you won't be buying it from Radsone

https://www.qudelix.com/5k-dacamp


----------



## Nimweth

KZ ZSX review now available:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsx.23948/reviews#review-22650


----------



## DynamicEars

I dont think I will post my full review of ZSX since there will be a lot of people have it. I wrote my impressions before, just ask me if there are anything i can help with comparison or anything.
Nice review @Nimweth ! More or less, mimic my impressions about ZSX, great job!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Definitely agree with u that a well tuned IEM/headphone can scale better with a good DAP/DAC/AMP compared to just using a low end smartphone.
> I rather take the hassle of carrying an extra USB DAC/AMP cable or DAP with me when I am on the go than just using my smartphone to play music, however inconvenient it is to bring extra stuff along. Disclaimer: I don't own any of the LG line quad DAC smartphones so maybe they might be an all in one solution for portable listening.



Not against purchasing a separate DAC/DAP/Amp if that's ones preference as everyone has right to spend their monies as they please. But every mid to high range smartphone made using a Qualcomm chipset (which is very common nowadays) has a very capable DAC to suit everyone's needs including audiophiles. But then arises the question, why does my smartphone sound crap? Simple answer is the software. Smartphone makers prioritze camera, graphics, gaming and everything else over audio functions so these DACs are never fully utilised and Android processes audio in 48khz which is icing on the crap fest. Additionally this gives phone makers a new business avenue market and brand their phones with Hi-res/Hi-fi certified smartphones, prime example of this is strategy is Samsung S series. Where they do absolutely nothing except processing audio directly via inbuilt DAC.

Now how this software can be optimised? There are many ways to do so like rooting your devices and installing audio specific patches (this is by far most noob friendly solution which requires bare minimal technical competence). Any smart devices' performance is majorly dictated by it's software optimisation. Fiio's X7MKIII optimised by a software called Viper which is arguably the most popular audio mod in Android's history. And Fiio is using drivers and software tweaks from Viper in many of their DAPs. There are many mods which unleash DAC's of smartphones and Viper is just one of them.

Every single aspect can be tweaked by simple software tweaks like audio gain, analog conversion, surround sound, and even the tonality of the output audio.

Sadly, I don't know much about iPhones but stock audio from them is miles better than Android. Also, their optimised AAC codec helps in overall audio performance.

The motive of this post is give Android guys on a tight budget an alternative which doesn't cost them money for having fantastic audio on the go. As they say, YMMV!


----------



## Captainbeefturd

baskingshark said:


> I use the Hidizs/Tempotec Sonata HD USB DAC/AMP with my lowend smart phone. Flashed to mode D which gives the best sound quality.



Concure there, you can get the TempoTec branded version for less than 25usd from Ali and like night and day the improvement in quality with an and8usb c. Genius litte thing. Have you found a huge improvement between C and D settings though, does D improve Hi-Res capability?

Also the regular TempoTec idsd about 60usd uses same Sabre DAC as plus, really sweet signiture off of that chip. Hoped didn't sound being flash with the isds plus coz I've totally busted the bank (albeit only £90) it truly does take you to a different realm over the smaller DAC's worth every penny, too nicer thing for portable though almost, is the problem lol


----------



## muths66

Will zsx more suitable with the use of copper or mix anyone?


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 18, 2019)

Captainbeefturd said:


> Concure there, you can get the TempoTec branded version for less than 25usd from Ali and like night and day the improvement in quality with an and8usb c. Genius litte thing. Have you found a huge improvement between C and D settings though, does D improve Hi-Res capability?
> 
> Also the regular TempoTec idsd about 60usd uses same Sabre DAC as plus, really sweet signiture off of that chip. Hoped didn't sound being flash with the isds plus coz I've totally busted the bank (albeit only £90) it truly does take you to a different realm over the smaller DAC's worth every penny, too nicer thing for portable though almost, is the problem lol



I used flash mode D only, haven't tried other modes. But it makes a huge difference than normal lowend android phone for me.

I seen good stuff about the tempotec idsd and plus version but currently i have a good enough DAP and DAC so I am waiting for it to be discounted more.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Which KZ's do the copper ZSN cable sound good on? They rock on the ZS10!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

DynamicEars said:


> I wont hesitate to say that too. Best KZ to date = ZSX. period.


How does it compare to BQEYZ iems?


----------



## voicemaster

Just got my C12 today. They sound pretty darn similar to ZSX. But, what I noticed when I tried ZSX for the very first time, how the highs can be piercing at times, but it does go away after some time. Meanwhile, C12 is just smooth at the very first listening, no sibilant whatsoever. Nothing offensive, high is well extended but no piercing at all. Mid is forward, but not too in your face. Bass is well extended as well and with good impact and weight to it. 
This is just my initial impression, I will continue to listen and A/B with ZSX.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Just got my C12 today. They sound pretty darn similar to ZSX. But, what I noticed when I tried ZSX for the very first time, how the highs can be piercing at times, but it does go away after some time. Meanwhile, C12 is just smooth at the very first listening, no sibilant whatsoever. Nothing offensive, high is well extended but no piercing at all. Mid is forward, but not too in your face. Bass is well extended as well and with good impact and weight to it.
> This is just my initial impression, I will continue to listen and A/B with ZSX.


I just added the C12 to my list of potential buys today. Can you compare the fit of the ZSX with the C12?
I like to walk a lot wearing my earphones, so wondering which would stay more snug while walking.


----------



## Assimilator702

voicemaster said:


> Just got my C12 today. They sound pretty darn similar to ZSX. But, what I noticed when I tried ZSX for the very first time, how the highs can be piercing at times, but it does go away after some time. Meanwhile, C12 is just smooth at the very first listening, no sibilant whatsoever. Nothing offensive, high is well extended but no piercing at all. Mid is forward, but not too in your face. Bass is well extended as well and with good impact and weight to it.
> This is just my initial impression, I will continue to listen and A/B with ZSX.


Yeah my biggest fear was they were both tuned the same after reading someone’s comment here that they sounded the same. But the person didn’t specify the gear or tracks used.
When I got my C12 my ZSX had almost 100 hours on them. I heard no difference between the two. That damn comment got in my brain and  it influenced what I was hearing. I didn’t touch the C12 at all for 2 days and when I finally did give a second listen I could hear the differences the most obvious is that upper midrange emphasis of the C12. Right now I’m using Large wide bore tips that ship with TFZ iems and I’m liking what I’m hearing. It seems the roles are reversed with the ZS10 PRO being brighter than the C10. Except this round both are tuned much better IMO.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> I just added the C12 to my list of potential buys today. Can you compare the fit of the ZSX with the C12?
> I like to walk a lot wearing my earphones, so wondering which would stay more snug while walking.



Well, the thing with zsx is if it fits you, it will give you a better snug fit with little to no movement at all. For C12, it is basically the same shape as ZS10pro while being bigger by 1mm.


----------



## DynamicEars

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How does it compare to BQEYZ iems?



KB100 still my best pick under $50 until i receive ZSX. its tough call, i like forwarded mids of KB100, and their special imaging
but soundstage, sub bass-mid bass proportion and tuning, details, separation, air, etc go to ZSX. Hopefully not too early to say, but if Im only allowed to take one, Ill pick ZSX (but for sure i will miss imaging and smoothness from BQEYZ). If KB100+ZSX combine and make a child = perfect budget iem


----------



## DynamicEars

Assimilator702 said:


> Yeah my biggest fear was they were both tuned the same after reading someone’s comment here that they sounded the same. But the person didn’t specify the gear or tracks used.
> When I got my C12 my ZSX had almost 100 hours on them. I heard no difference between the two. That damn comment got in my brain and  it influenced what I was hearing. I didn’t touch the C12 at all for 2 days and when I finally did give a second listen I could hear the differences the most obvious is that upper midrange emphasis of the C12. Right now I’m using Large wide bore tips that ship with TFZ iems and I’m liking what I’m hearing. It seems the roles are reversed with the ZS10 PRO being brighter than the C10. Except this round both are tuned much better IMO.



so more or less from what I see from their FR graph, C12 have more boosted upper mids and lower highs region. When the rest sound similar means they are both very capable iems, just more preferences here. for me even with ZSX i sometimes feel upper mids were too dominant a little bit, lucky i didnt pick C12. And i have no interest to pick both of them. Im trying their outside competitor, the TRN V90, but still around 2 weeks until i got them maybe.


----------



## Seazer

DynamicEars said:


> so more or less from what I see from their FR graph, C12 have more boosted upper mids and lower highs region. When the rest sound similar means they are both very capable iems, just more preferences here. for me even with ZSX i sometimes feel upper mids were too dominant a little bit, lucky i didnt pick C12. And i have no interest to pick both of them. Im trying their outside competitor, the TRN V90, but still around 2 weeks until i got them maybe.


Yeah my v90 just entered usps from China, hopefully it comes soon, I don't have an eta. Meanwhile my Guideray Gr i come tomorrow so I'll see how that sounds. I know not many people have gotten their hands on it yet, there are barely any reviews


----------



## SoraNeko

baskingshark said:


> I used flash mode D only, haven't tried other modes. But it makes a huge difference than normal lowend android phone for me.
> 
> I seen good stuff about the tempotec idsd and plus version but currently i have a good enough DAP and DAC so I am waiting for it to be discounted more.


How would it compare to something like the G7 Tho?


----------



## RikudouGoku

SoraNeko said:


> How would it compare to something like the G7 Tho?


G7 is still better, I have both. But the sonata is better than a galaxy s8 at least ( my friends s8)


----------



## darmanastartes

I posted a measurement comparison of the KZ ZSX and the TRN V90 in the TRN thread, along with some initial impressions.


----------



## KipNix

Slater said:


> Now they’re hitting $40, $60, even $100+!


"Advanced Wearable Audio". 
Advanced from when? Back to the future? LOL


----------



## SoraNeko

RikudouGoku said:


> G7 is still better, I have both. But the sonata is better than a galaxy s8 at least ( my friends s8)


How much better it is? i wanted a cheapish dac, but not something that is beaten by a integrated smartphone dac


----------



## RikudouGoku

SoraNeko said:


> How much better it is? i wanted a cheapish dac, but not something that is beaten by a integrated smartphone dac


Well I find the G7 to be sound cleaner in all aspect of the sound compared to the sonata, Do NOT underestimate the LGs quad dac it is superior to all other smarthphon dacs. I do not know if there is any cheap dac that is better than the LGs quad dac ( assuming cheap dac means under 150 usd or something for you). I would recommend the Hidizs Ap80 though, that has better sound than the G7. Have not tried the shanling m0 so I can not say anything about that.


----------



## BrunoC

Just pulled out the QT2 (using fom tips) and I'm sorry to say, but it still beats all my KZs, including the ZS10 Pro. I haven't tried the ZSX.
More coherent, natural, engaging sound.


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> I used flash mode D only, haven't tried other modes. But it makes a huge difference than normal lowend android phone for me.
> 
> I seen good stuff about the tempotec idsd and plus version but currently i have a good enough DAP and DAC so I am waiting for it to be discounted more.



since you mentioned them, Im a bit confused by tempotec idsd and plus version, which one is released first? looks like plus version is released first? definitely confusing when smartphones and gadgets using "plus" to emphasize that they are newer or better version.
and do you have any information about their differences beside the shell? seems like not much information and reviews around for these little gems 



SoraNeko said:


> How would it compare to something like the G7 Tho?





RikudouGoku said:


> G7 is still better, I have both. But the sonata is better than a galaxy s8 at least ( my friends s8)



I got LG V40 and Sonata HD and S9+, v40 has more power (with high impedance mode, or even AUX mode), LG phone with neutral characteristic, while Sonata HD like boost up, made everything more lively and crisp, so a bit coloration here, made decay faster, so for iem with fast decay or BA bass sounds drier, but on slow decay iem bass become tighter and faster and nice. Its like steroid effect, but sounds great. Its a bit unnatural, but easy to love tone if you get what i mean. Meanwhile samsung phones still below that two on SQ.


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> since you mentioned them, Im a bit confused by tempotec idsd and plus version, which one is released first? looks like plus version is released first? definitely confusing when smartphones and gadgets using "plus" to emphasize that they are newer or better version.
> and do you have any information about their differences beside the shell? seems like not much information and reviews around for these little gems



I don't have both the tempotec IDSD and Plus version, but from reading reviews, the plus is a newer model with balanced output and more power. The normal IDSD has one ES9018K2M DAC chip, but the Plus version has dual ES9018K2M chips. Plus is almost double the price though.


----------



## paulwasabii

I agree on the LGs, I bought a cracked V30+ on eBay, well under $100 and USB Audio Player Pro for playing flac and Tidal MQA.  So convenient and sounds better than my s10 and Pixel 3a.  I also have the Hidizs sonata version and don't like it as much because it's a bit wonky with UAPP.  Sometimes it disconnects randomly and the hardware volume keys dont work.  Its probably me or trying to use UAPP in bitperfect but I'd go with a V30/V40.




DynamicEars said:


> since you mentioned them, Im a bit confused by tempotec idsd and plus version, which one is released first? looks like plus version is released first? definitely confusing when smartphones and gadgets using "plus" to emphasize that they are newer or better version.
> and do you have any information about their differences beside the shell? seems like not much information and reviews around for these little gems
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SoraNeko

RikudouGoku said:


> Well I find the G7 to be sound cleaner in all aspect of the sound compared to the sonata, Do NOT underestimate the LGs quad dac it is superior to all other smarthphon dacs. I do not know if there is any cheap dac that is better than the LGs quad dac ( assuming cheap dac means under 150 usd or something for you). I would recommend the Hidizs Ap80 though, that has better sound than the G7. Have not tried the shanling m0 so I can not say anything about that.


Honestly, i can't think they put a 100+ internal DAC on a smartphone, that would seriously be insane and i could even buy one if needed, way cheaper than a DAP XD


----------



## zachmal

paulwasabii said:


> I agree on the LGs, I bought a cracked V30+ on eBay, well under $100 and USB Audio Player Pro for playing flac and Tidal MQA.  So convenient and sounds better than my s10 and Pixel 3a.  I also have the Hidizs sonata version and don't like it as much because it's a bit wonky with UAPP.  Sometimes it disconnects randomly and the hardware volume keys dont work.  Its probably me or trying to use UAPP in bitperfect but I'd go with a V30/V40.



UAPP is quite buggy - it doesn't even survive a night or several hours of repeated playback of a burn-in track (pink, brown, white noise) of a few seconds duration

also at times I get full loudness static output from it - or most of the time when using the internal DAC in non hi-res mode

SABRE DAC appears to work more reliable when overriding it - but that also sometimes doesn't work.

Talking about LG V30 on AOSP with implemented quad dac toggle.

If you guys want a pure audiophile output - give AINUR NARSIL a try that should strip away most of the pre-processing of sound (might be interesting to try out on stock ROMs),

AINUR SAURON on the opposite enhances, changes the output.

For a EQ give JamesDSP a try (all those modules via Magisk, more than one module needs AML for compatibility).

The KZ AS10 sound quite nice on the V30 but with a corrected impulse response more aligned with harmon curve via vdc file it's even better.

Read here somewhere on head-fi that for the full potential to unlock of the es9218p it needs to be run in high impedance mode to engage all four internally connected quad DACs which are also mentioned there:

https://myemail.constantcontact.com...NFyVJg-IK_ggsyi5VOVvo0aSlJNUUq8sK4QjzP4ogct98


----------



## archdawg

baskingshark said:


> I used flash mode D only, haven't tried other modes. But it makes a huge difference than normal lowend android phone for me.
> 
> I seen good stuff about the tempotec idsd and plus version but currently i have a good enough DAP and DAC so I am waiting for it to be discounted more.



I really like my Tempotec Sonata a lot but I recently got the E1DA 9038S USB DAC (2.5mm balanced) and that thing plays in an entirely different league - levels, low-noise and THD, soundstage, details, you name it - I'm blown a-way. 

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2WHfaJYVmzxs3asa4C2H4Z

The only drawback of this first version are the insane levels that tiny sucker can produce - it can literally fry any low-impedance IEM in an instant if you're not careful, especially with touchscreens; level wise it even seems dangerous enough for some of my full-size cans but soundwise this is as close to end-game as it gets if a clean output is your thing - just study the charts. Anyway, Ivan the dev has just introduced a second gen. 9038s with slow start-up for phones and a fourth IEM safe mode (limited power output) - I'll order one of those as well for my smartphones and use this first one exclusively with my notebook - gotta play it safe with that thing .


----------



## Mouseman

archdawg said:


> I really like my Tempotec Sonata a lot but I recently got the E1DA 9038S USB DAC (2.5mm balanced) and that thing plays in an entirely different league - levels, low-noise and THD, soundstage, details, you name it - I'm blown a-way.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwje5_Tqrt3kAhUMU1AKHWpEAPAQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2WHfaJYVmzxs3asa4C2H4Z
> 
> The only drawback of this first version are the insane levels that tiny sucker can produce - it can literally fry any low-impedance IEM in an instant if you're not careful, especially with touchscreens; level wise it even seems dangerous enough for some of my full-size cans but soundwise this is as close to end-game as it gets if a clean output is your thing - just study the charts. Anyway, Ivan the dev has just introduced a second gen. 9038s with slow start-up for phones and a fourth IEM safe mode (limited power output) - I'll order one of those as well for my smartphones and use this first one exclusively with my notebook - gotta play it safe with that thing .


I've been looking at one of those myself. So you think it's worth it (if I get the new generation)? I still can't figure out what the difference is between this and his PowerDAC.


----------



## archdawg (Sep 19, 2019)

Mouseman said:


> I've been looking at one of those myself. So you think it's worth it (if I get the new generation)? I still can't figure out what the difference is between this and his PowerDAC.


More than worth it, a bl@@dy steal IMO, especially the newer, 2nd gen., just study those charts in the link and check where they place that thing in their data based ranking list.
The main differences between the 9038s and the Power-DAC apart from the housing, USB connector, power consumption is the processing of the signals:

9038S: DAC + amplifier (output impedance <0.1Ohm)

Power DAC: USB jitter interface > PWM modulator > feedback-less power stage with 36 ultra-fast logical gates followed by a LC low-pass (output impedance around 1.5 Ohm (from the top of my head))

The Power DAC can be controlled via Bluetooth and there are apps (Apple, Android) with 7-band parametric EQ, presets, etc ...


----------



## HungryPanda

BrunoC said:


> Just pulled out the QT2 (using fom tips) and I'm sorry to say, but it still beats all my KZs, including the ZS10 Pro. I haven't tried the ZSX.
> More coherent, natural, engaging sound.


 You made me pull out my QT2 and QT5, love both QT2 is energetic but QT5 is more easy going. Now I don't know what one I like most


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> You made me pull out my QT2 and QT5, love both QT2 is energetic but QT5 is more easy going. Now I don't know what one I like most



Man I can just hear that Drewish princes singing now? "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen" I'm thinking one could have a lot worse problems


----------



## Podster

Come to stink of it that actually may be spelled "Druish"


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

zachmal said:


> UAPP is quite buggy - it doesn't even survive a night or several hours of repeated playback of a burn-in track (pink, brown, white noise) of a few seconds duration
> 
> also at times I get full loudness static output from it - or most of the time when using the internal DAC in non hi-res mode
> 
> ...



Totally agree with this. Narsil is a fantastic mod works great with devices with flagship internal specs


----------



## SoraNeko

Dani157 said:


> Totally agree with this. Narsil is a fantastic mod works great with devices with flagship internal specs


 are these mods only worth on quad DAC phones? (like the LG ones)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SoraNeko said:


> are these mods only worth on quad DAC phones? (like the LG ones)



Not really. They improve audio performance on most of the smartphones. From super budget Redmi phones to pixels of the world. I've used them on all my Android devices right from Yu Yureka to Redmi Note 4 to latest K20 Pro. And it works flawlessly on both of them irrespective of the hardware. Though having a flagship specs device helps as it is more efficient than a budget device. Key differences are in power and processing bandwidth. Because smartphones do have decent DACs in them but they lack proper software optimisation to unleash their potential


----------



## SoraNeko

Dani157 said:


> Not really. They improve audio performance on most of the smartphones. From super budget Redmi phones to pixels of the world. I've used them on all my Android devices right from Yu Yureka to Redmi Note 4 to latest K20 Pro. And it works flawlessly on both of them irrespective of the hardware. Though having a flagship specs device helps as it is more efficient than a budget device. Key differences are in power and processing bandwidth. Because smartphones do have decent DACs in them but they lack proper software optimisation to unleash their potential


I can't root my phone or install a recovery for safety reasons, am i out of luck? (Samsung)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SoraNeko said:


> I can't root my phone or install a recovery for safety reasons, am i out of luck? (Samsung)



Sadly yes. You own Samsung's Exynos or Qualcomm device? Exynos devices have little to no development of aosp roms and mods so you're totally out of luck if that's the case. Although, if your phone is out of warranty, you can root your device. It's an option worth considering. Although, I'd suggest that you read up a lot about it before stepping into the world of rooting devices (if this is your first time).


----------



## Slater

baskingshark said:


> Disclaimer: I don't own any of the LG line quad DAC smartphones so maybe they might be an all in one solution for portable listening.



That would be the ES100


----------



## Seazer (Sep 19, 2019)

Initial first impressions (using stock cable on both, and the so copper on KZ and silver on Guideray) is that the KZ ZSxlX has more treble texture than the Guideray GR-I. This is probably because of the greater number of balanced armatures in the ZSX. The Guideray also seems to have a more recessed midrange, and slightly hotter treble peak. I need to test cables and tips and let them burn in a but but first impressions is I like the ZSX more. For example on the song House of God by i_o, at about 1:40 the snare does a crescendo rise in intensity before the bass drops, and and on the Guideray its just on the edge of being painful, while it also more or less sounds like one note. On the ZSX it's reduced just enough into the range of tolerability. The meanwhile you can hear more of a textured "splash" of the snare on the ZSX, giving it a better sense of detail imo. Also at 3:10 there is a vocalist that has some sibilant S sounds (that are in the recording itself) and the ZSX brings the sibilance under control better than the Guideray.

Edit: after switching to foam tips and using a copper balanced cable, the Guideray sound much improved. I would say they are more laid back than the ZSX and the ZSX are more engaging. The Guideray are harder to drive and have tighter bass with less bleed


----------



## Slater

revand said:


> For USD 50 this is an excellent solution. Bad news is the maker sent me a message that they are out of stock at this moment...



Dang, that is an impressive piece of kit


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> You made me pull out my xx2 and xx5, love both xx2 is energetic but xx5 is more easy going. Now I don't know what one I like most



The steampunk one is the way to go. I did a review on the audio reviews blog


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Which KZ's do the copper ZSN cable sound good on? They rock on the ZS10!



the purple ZSN


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Dang, that is an impressive piece of kit



that's the balanced version, the unbalanced 3.5mm one, the Ibasso DC02, also just released. Ant sent one to Amir from AudioScienceReview, so I'm quite excited to see how good the implementation is.


----------



## Seazer

SoraNeko said:


> I can't root my phone or install a recovery for safety reasons, am i out of luck? (Samsung)


Neutron Music Player bypasses the phone's processing and does its own processing. So if you are listening to hard copy files, it is an improvement without having to root for something like viper4android


----------



## Somatics

Does anybody have a reliable source for buying the KZ ED7 (mini preferably, no mic definitely) please? 

If not... can anybody recommend the closest match in terms of sound signature? I just bought the EDR1 and it's quite mid-recessed for my liking. 

Thanks gang!


----------



## SoraNeko

Seazer said:


> Neutron Music Player bypasses the phone's processing and does its own processing. So if you are listening to hard copy files, it is an improvement without having to root for something like viper4android


I've heard neutron currently has some bugs where if you enable the 32 bit mode it seems to break the hi-res output internally inside the OS and stream will go to 16/48 mixer...is that real? i found on the last page of Neutron own thread, said by dmitrykos


----------



## Seazer (Sep 19, 2019)

SoraNeko said:


> I've heard neutron currently has some bugs where if you enable the 32 bit mode it seems to break the hi-res output internally inside the OS and stream will go to 16/48 mixer...is that real? i found on the last page of Neutron own thread, said by dmitrykos


I'll check it out but I don't think you are supposed to enable 32 bit mode anyways.
The proper settings are: 64 bit processing ON, audiophile resampling ON, DSP effect OFF, dither ON, generic driver > hi res codec, hi res speaker and hi res Bluetooth all ON, 32 bit output OFF, and low latency OFF

EDIT: I read the thread and 64 bit processing should be off. You want 32 bit processing to be on if your decice shows 16 int or lower in the device hardware at the top. In the case of my S9 where it says 32 int at the top, I should have 32 bit processing off.


----------



## courierdriver

archdawg said:


> I really like my Tempotec Sonata a lot but I recently got the E1DA 9038S USB DAC (2.5mm balanced) and that thing plays in an entirely different league - levels, low-noise and THD, soundstage, details, you name it - I'm blown a-way.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwje5_Tqrt3kAhUMU1AKHWpEAPAQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2WHfaJYVmzxs3asa4C2H4Z
> 
> The only drawback of this first version are the insane levels that tiny sucker can produce - it can literally fry any low-impedance IEM in an instant if you're not careful, especially with touchscreens; level wise it even seems dangerous enough for some of my full-size cans but soundwise this is as close to end-game as it gets if a clean output is your thing - just study the charts. Anyway, Ivan the dev has just introduced a second gen. 9038s with slow start-up for phones and a fourth IEM safe mode (limited power output) - I'll order one of those as well for my smartphones and use this first one exclusively with my notebook - gotta play it safe with that thing .


I've heard so many great things about the 9038S but I also read that it really drains the host device's battery. I really want this unit, but the idea of having to buy a special splitter dongle and a power bank, and somehow attach this all to my smartphone, puts me off. Does your V1 version eat up alot of battery on your tablet or smartphone? Do you know if the new version will address this issue?


----------



## NeonHD

BrunoC said:


> Just pulled out the QT2 (using fom tips) and I'm sorry to say, but it still beats all my KZs, including the ZS10 Pro. I haven't tried the ZSX.
> More coherent, natural, engaging sound.



Amen, thanks for confirming this.
-Fellow QT2 user


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

mbwilson111 said:


> the purple ZSN


I own it. Not a fan. The ZS10 sounds much nicer. The ZSN sounds good if you like that it sounds off...


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 20, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I own it. Not a fan. The ZS10 sounds much nicer. The ZSN sounds good if you like that it sounds off...



I would not like the ZSN if it sounded "off."    I like it with the installed tips (not the Starlines in this case). Also I use it with some excellent sources.... and well produced music.

edit:  I assume you meant the pretty cable that comes with the purple ZSN so my original reply was meant as a bit of a joke... stating the obvious.  Never mind.

BTW, I do not obsess over cables.  With most of my gear the stock cables are fine.  I only change to different ones if I want to use a balanced output,  want a different look,  or need better ergonomics.


----------



## archdawg (Sep 20, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> I've heard so many great things about the 9038S but I also read that it really drains the host device's battery. I really want this unit, but the idea of having to buy a special splitter dongle and a power bank, and somehow attach this all to my smartphone, puts me off. Does your V1 version eat up alot of battery on your tablet or smartphone? Do you know if the new version will address this issue?


Yeah, there's a more or less noticeable drain on the battery and since the 2nd gen. 9038s is basically the same design apart from a slow start FET circuit and a 4th IEM safe mode I'm afraid the current drain will be about the same. The sound of that thing is just too good though, but I'll be using both versions at home since the sonic differences to my existing DAPs and DACs would easily get lost on public transport and the like.


----------



## courierdriver

archdawg said:


> Yeah, there's a more or less noticeable drain on the battery and since the 2nd gen. 9038s is basically the same design apart from a slow start FET circuit and a 4th IEM safe mode I'm afraid the current drain will be about the same. The sound of that thing is just too good though, but I'll be using both versions at home since the sonic differences to my existing DAPs and DACs would easily get lost on public transport and the like.


Dang! I keep thinking I should just get a used smartphone and connect all this stuff to it for a killer sound experience. I don't wanna use my current main phone for all that. But; by the time I get a used smartphone with a USB audio output, a power bank and the E1DA...I could have bought a decent DAP like a Shanling M5S, Fiio M11, or something else similar. I just dont know what to do right now.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 20, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Dang! I keep thinking I should just get a used smartphone and connect all this stuff to it for a killer sound experience. I don't wanna use my current main phone for all that. But; by the time I get a used smartphone with a USB audio output, a power bank and the E1DA...I could have bought a decent DAP like a Shanling M5S, Fiio M11, or something else similar. I just dont know what to do right now.[/Q



Why overcomplicate things?  A nice DAP with good battery life is a simple solution.  Decide on a budget and list what features are and are not important to you. For example, I do not need Bluetooth or wifi but I do need gapless play, plenty of storage capacity, and a good UI. Someone who streams thier music has different needs than I do.


----------



## PhonoPhi

courierdriver said:


> Dang! I keep thinking I should just get a used smartphone and connect all this stuff to it for a killer sound experience. I don't wanna use my current main phone for all that. But; by the time I get a used smartphone with a USB audio output, a power bank and the E1DA...I could have bought a decent DAP like a Shanling M5S, Fiio M11, or something else similar. I just dont know what to do right now.


Exactly!
With your dedication to this hobby, get the best DAP which will suit your needs.


----------



## SoraNeko

NeonHD said:


> Amen, thanks for confirming this.
> -Fellow QT2 user


Is flatter or more detailed than a ZS10 Pro?


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> Dang! I keep thinking I should just get a used smartphone and connect all this stuff to it for a killer sound experience. I don't wanna use my current main phone for all that. But; by the time I get a used smartphone with a USB audio output, a power bank and the E1DA...I could have bought a decent DAP like a Shanling M5S, Fiio M11, or something else similar. I just dont know what to do right now.


I was going to say give the ES100 another chance, but I just looked on Amazon.ca (for the 1st time).  Wow, the disparity to the U.S. version is quite surprising.
U.S.: currently has a 15% clippable coupon, net $85 USD
Canada: Zilch, squat, nada. No new units for sale

At least you still have Havana, Club 7 rum


----------



## SoraNeko

lgcubana said:


> I was going to say give the ES100 another chance, but I just looked on Amazon.ca (for the 1st time).  Wow, the disparity to the U.S. version is quite surprising.
> U.S.: currently has a 15% clippable coupon, net $85 USD
> Canada: Zilch, squat, nada. No new units for sale
> 
> At least you still have Havana, Club 7 rum


What about Aliexpress?


----------



## PhonoPhi

SoraNeko said:


> What about Aliexpress?


AE availability in Canada is in peril over concerns for polar bears.
As always, Trudeau apologizes for everything


----------



## SoraNeko

PhonoPhi said:


> AE availability in Canada is in peril over concerns for polar bears.
> As always, Trudeau apologizes for everything


‍♂️


----------



## Mybutthurts

courierdriver said:


> Dang! I keep thinking I should just get a used smartphone and connect all this stuff to it for a killer sound experience. I don't wanna use my current main phone for all that. But; by the time I get a used smartphone with a USB audio output, a power bank and the E1DA...I could have bought a decent DAP like a Shanling M5S, Fiio M11, or something else similar. I just dont know what to do right now.



You won't go wrong with the M11, bloody excellent it is.

Very good as a DAP, and as a source for a home system.


----------



## spectron9

lgcubana said:


> Just got in the YxxYxx KZ 8 Core Silver Copper Mixed Cable, from Amazon, for my KZ ZS4
> Made by KZ for (among other models) the ZS4... *NOT!!!*
> _*(it does work, in unmolested form. But barely gets a perch)*_
> 
> ...



hi, 

i've got the same constellation - had already zs3 and zs3e. i've ordered some weeks ago the same upgrade cable on an aliexpress shop - in the meantime i'm complaning/disussing with this shop because the cable fits extremely loose. yeah, it's not a quality issue, it's a design issue by kz or kz just writes wrong compatibility due to their cables.

can anyone recommend an upgrade cable for zs3/zs4 that will really fit 100% ?

br, peter


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> Dang, that is an impressive piece of kit



Can you post a link for an adapter that would convert a balanced cable (2.5)  to unbalanced input (3.5). I’d like to keep a balanced cable on the IEMs but also plug into my phone, some reviews on AE warn they could damage the hardware.


----------



## loomisjohnson

Somatics said:


> Does anybody have a reliable source for buying the KZ ED7 (mini preferably, no mic definitely) please?
> 
> If not... can anybody recommend the closest match in terms of sound signature? I just bought the EDR1 and it's quite mid-recessed for my liking.
> 
> Thanks gang!


the ed9 with the gold filter should do you--i like it much more than the ed7


----------



## Tonymac136

Not tried the ED7 but the ED9 with gold filter is a good buy. Not noticed any significant weaknesses in the sound and it's so, so cheap.


----------



## Mouseman

SoundChoice said:


> Can you post a link for an adapter that would convert a balanced cable (2.5)  to unbalanced input (3.5). I’d like to keep a balanced cable on the IEMs but also plug into my phone, some reviews on AE warn they could damage the hardware.


I would look for one of the Fiio BL35s  on Amazon - I've had good luck with them and the new version is more durable (black with a red cap for some reason). I think the warnings you have seen are for ones that try to go the other way - unbalanced to balanced. Those are bad news.


----------



## SoraNeko

Question: is the ZSN Pro comparable to the ZS7 in terms of sound quality?


----------



## voicemaster

SoraNeko said:


> Question: is the ZSN Pro comparable to the ZS7 in terms of sound quality?



They share the same KZ's sound, but the ZS7 will be more refined and sound separation will be better.


----------



## SoraNeko

voicemaster said:


> They share the same KZ's sound, but the ZS7 will be more refined and sound separation will be better.


Man, considering that you seems to have a lot of KZ, what's their best one today?


----------



## Slater (Sep 20, 2019)

SoundChoice said:


> Can you post a link for an adapter that would convert a balanced cable (2.5)  to unbalanced input (3.5). I’d like to keep a balanced cable on the IEMs but also plug into my phone, some reviews on AE warn they could damage the hardware.



I’m afraid I can’t help with that. I have zero experience with those adapters.

Whatever you decide to buy, I would verify the pinout that the adapter designer used matches whatever your gear expects. There’s a couple of different balanced wiring configurations, and you don’t want to mess anything up.

Below is the most common balanced wiring configuration, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will match yours. I take no responsibility.


----------



## Leo-rume

spectron9 said:


> hi,
> 
> i've got the same constellation - had already zs3 and zs3e. i've ordered some weeks ago the same upgrade cable on an aliexpress shop - in the meantime i'm complaning/disussing with this shop because the cable fits extremely loose. yeah, it's not a quality issue, it's a design issue by kz or kz just writes wrong compatibility due to their cables.
> 
> ...


After going through the same ordeal, I found out you can use a trn 4 core or 6 core cable (the ones with angled connectors) just fine. I've found these to provide the best fit with the ZS3,ZS3E,ZS4 shells. Doesn't fit "100%" but certainly a lot better than the KZ cables. It fits tightly. I use this for my morning jogs and it never comes off. Currently using the 4 core cable.



The 6 core cable is a little more robust, with a chin slider but basically same connectors (from pictures, I don't have it)

Here are the links if interested

4 core cable
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33004262215.html

6 core cable
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33007330374.html


----------



## voicemaster

SoraNeko said:


> Man, considering that you seems to have a lot of KZ, what's their best one today?



ZSX of course


----------



## spectron9

Leo-rume said:


> After going through the same ordeal, I found out you can use a trn 4 core or 6 core cable (the ones with angled connectors) just fine. I've found these to provide the best fit with the ZS3,ZS3E,ZS4 shells. Doesn't fit "100%" but certainly a lot better than the KZ cables. It fits tightly. I use this for my morning jogs and it never comes off. Currently using the 4 core cable.
> 
> The 6 core cable is a little more robust, with a chin slider but basically same connectors (from pictures, I don't have it)
> 
> ...




thnx a lot, looks good  i've got already a 4core trn cable with mmcx and i'm satisfied becuase they don't have memory wires


----------



## PhonoPhi

voicemaster said:


> ZSX of course


KZ also made AS12 and AS16.
Are they assumed to be inferior or excluded from the comparison?


----------



## moisespr123

They d


PhonoPhi said:


> KZ also made AS12 and AS16.
> Are they assumed to be inferior or excluded from the comparison?



They lack the bass. 

The ZSX is my favorite too.


----------



## roladyzator (Sep 20, 2019)

SoraNeko said:


> Question: is the ZSN Pro comparable to the ZS7 in terms of sound quality?



I had ZSN pro (my first KZ) and moved on to ZS7. These two are very different and are fantastic value to me. ZS7 is superior bit I do miss the ZSN pro's upfront treble and how it accentuated the little details in sound.

*ZSN pro*: strongly elevated treble creates a sensation of superb detail. Everything sounds alive and has this holographic quality to it. And yet in this upfront sound there is some decent bass (can EQ it to basshead levels) and soundstage (as midrange and voices are somewhat behind the rest, but still clear). Loved them for richly produced electronic music (like Solar Fields or Shpongle), it was so easy to get lost in all this detail.

Not good for rock music though, the frequency response in ZSN pro accentuates what's most boring in it.

While tonally these did sound off, I wouldn't go as far as to call them metallic sounding.

Otoh, listening to streamed music was nice as the extra treble helped to compensate for slightly duller source sound.

Oh, and having some extra tips can change a lot, e.g. foam tips with a wide bore would reduce treble. Sounded more correct for sure, but I preferred the elevated treble on the kz starline tips.

*ZS7*: Warm signature with clearer sound. It's not that much clearer than ZSN pro, but still is, which is remarkable with that boosted treble being tamed down. And the bass is to die for. Goes crazy deep and remains clear. But I didn't like the upper treble at first, it was cut down too much for me. But because of that,  the soundstage seemed wider as the top end of the audio spectrum is pushed back behind the midrange while bass is nicely filling up the space. Sounded much like Beyerdynamic DT150 but with a bit less sparkle and more sub-bass.

After some mental adjustment, this sound started to make more sense. They are also sensitive to eartips and I like them with super short and wide blue spiral tips from kz for more upfront midrange, but I still use starlines every now and then due to more laid back sound and increased soundstage it brings.


----------



## Somatics

loomisjohnson said:


> the ed9 with the gold filter should do you--i like it much more than the ed7



Sweet! Thank you. I'll give them a go.


----------



## nraymond

Slater said:


> Whatever you decide to buy, I would verify the pinout that the adapter designer used matches whatever your gear expects. There’s a couple of different balanced wiring configurations, and you don’t want to mess anything up.



I'm not aware of any variations in the TRRS signal arrangement in 2.5mm outputs. It is just as standardized as 4.4mm Pentacon or 4-pin XLR. 3.5mm balanced outputs on the other hand don't have a consolidated standard that I am aware of. (Headphones that use single 2.5mm or 3.5mm jacks on the cups for their cable are not standardized on their pin input, and it is not uncommon for them to choose whatever suits the maker, including backward compatibility with non-TRRS, i.e. standard unbalanced TRS cables, such that a headphone with a 2.5mm TRRS jack on a cup would not necessarily work with a straight through 2.5mm TRRS to 2.5mm TRRS cable without re-arrangement of the signals from end to end.)

You can buy the Dunu DC-11 adapter or the Fiio BL35 to plug a headphone terminated in a 2.5mm balanced male connector into a 3.5mm unbalanced socket.


----------



## Seazer

nraymond said:


> I'm not aware of any variations in the TRRS signal arrangement in 2.5mm outputs. It is just as standardized as 4.4mm Pentacon or 4-pin XLR. 3.5mm balanced outputs on the other hand don't have a consolidated standard that I am aware of. (Headphones that use single 2.5mm or 3.5mm jacks on the cups for their cable are not standardized on their pin input, and it is not uncommon for them to choose whatever suits the maker, including backward compatibility with non-TRRS, i.e. standard unbalanced TRS cables, such that a headphone with a 2.5mm TRRS jack on a cup would not necessarily work with a straight through 2.5mm TRRS to 2.5mm TRRS cable without re-arrangement of the signals from end to end.)
> 
> You can buy the Dunu DC-11 adapter or the Fiio BL35 to plug a headphone terminated in a 2.5mm balanced male connector into a 3.5mm unbalanced socket.


Would something like this work or should I be wary because it doesn't specifically mention balanced? 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/nGcLb3uk


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> 3.5mm balanced outputs on the other hand don't have a consolidated standard that I am aware of.



Maybe 3.5mm was what I was thinking of. Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Been enjoying the ZS6 with foams for a little while now. Got the ZSX out for delivery today and pretty stoked. Might end up being my "endgame" IEMs.


----------



## nraymond

Seazer said:


> Would something like this work or should I be wary because it doesn't specifically mention balanced?
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/nGcLb3uk



I wouldn’t recommend buying any adapter that doesn’t mention balanced, since there is an uncommon form of 2.5mm jack that isn’t balanced (I’ve seen it used on some headsets, so an adapter that doesn’t mention balanced might have a 3.5mm TRRS socket rather than a TRS socket).


----------



## archdawg

SoundChoice said:


> Can you post a link for an adapter that would convert a balanced cable (2.5)  to unbalanced input (3.5). I’d like to keep a balanced cable on the IEMs but also plug into my phone, some reviews on AE warn they could damage the hardware.



I'd go with the FiiO BL35 (replament for the older L26) - the female balanced connector sticks to the *TRRS* layout (Astell & Kern, FiiO et.al.) as do _most_ of the balanced stock and replacement headphone cables with 2.5mm connectors on AE and elsewhere (if in doubt just ask the seller).

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-bl35.23230/reviews

(BTW ... one thing to be aware of is to switch *OFF* any DAC/DAP before you insert any 2.5mm male balanced jack in order not to shorten the output amps - bad idea.)


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Somatics said:


> Sweet! Thank you. I'll give them a go.



ED9 with gold filter is my jam too. Its a good rec. ED7 is really an overly bloated bass mess of an IEM imo. Sounded like something you would buy at the checkout line at WALMART to me.


----------



## zr0dfx

Got my ZSX today! Loving the cyan with the darker metal on them. Fit absolutely fine for me.

Do you guys recommend the foam tips for these? Mine are still on the way.

cheers


----------



## Slater (Sep 21, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> ED9 with gold filter is my jam too. Its a good rec. ED7 is really an overly bloated bass mess of an IEM imo. Sounded like something you would buy at the checkout line at WALMART to me.



ED7 is one of the few KZs that I don’t own, so I’ve never personally heard it. I do know there are some fans of the ED7. I seem to remember @Otto Motor likes them, but I may have him confused with someone else.

There’s also 2 ED7 versions; a regular and a mini version. Perhaps one is better than the other?

And speaking of Walmart checkout earphones, the ED4 definitely belongs in that category! Actually, the ED4 belongs in the dust bin; it doesn’t even deserve to be in the checkout lane lol


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> ED7 is one of the few KZs that I don’t own, so I’ve never personally heard



I think it looks cool.  Can't find it in stock anywhere.


----------



## paulwasabii

zr0dfx said:


> Got my ZSX today! Loving the cyan with the darker metal on them. Fit absolutely fine for me.
> 
> Do you guys recommend the foam tips for these? Mine are still on the way.
> 
> cheers



I don't know about tips as I usually grab the large star tips.  I do recommend trying a different cable.  I am using the NiceHCK cheap 16 core copper and it really turns up the bass.  More so than any other iem including the ZS10 Pro on the same cable.  Just curious if others have cable swapped the ZSX as most reviews stuck with the stock which gives me a thin mid section.


----------



## voicemaster

paulwasabii said:


> I don't know about tips as I usually grab the large star tips.  I do recommend trying a different cable.  I am using the NiceHCK cheap 16 core copper and it really turns up the bass.  More so than any other iem including the ZS10 Pro on the same cable.  Just curious if others have cable swapped the ZSX as most reviews stuck with the stock which gives me a thin mid section.



I use the silver upgraded cable that I got for free from KZ store.


----------



## Seazer

paulwasabii said:


> I don't know about tips as I usually grab the large star tips.  I do recommend trying a different cable.  I am using the NiceHCK cheap 16 core copper and it really turns up the bass.  More so than any other iem including the ZS10 Pro on the same cable.  Just curious if others have cable swapped the ZSX as most reviews stuck with the stock which gives me a thin mid section.


I'm using a nicehck 8 core copper cable and I think it sounds good. I'm wondering what the best conductive cheap copper cable would be.


----------



## Seazer

zr0dfx said:


> Got my ZSX today! Loving the cyan with the darker metal on them. Fit absolutely fine for me.
> 
> Do you guys recommend the foam tips for these? Mine are still on the way.
> 
> cheers


I use dekoni foam tips or the silicone tips that come with the Mh755. I'm using the silicone tips more now just because it's more convenient. Personally I'm not a fan of the stock kz silicone


----------



## Seazer

nraymond said:


> I wouldn’t recommend buying any adapter that doesn’t mention balanced, since there is an uncommon form of 2.5mm jack that isn’t balanced (I’ve seen it used on some headsets, so an adapter that doesn’t mention balanced might have a 3.5mm TRRS socket rather than a TRS socket).


To bad its already shipped for me. At least it was only a couple bucks. Will it be obvious if it doesn't work? Will I get static or something? Or will it silently destroy my iems lol


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Seazer said:


> I'm using a nicehck 8 core copper cable and I think it sounds good. I'm wondering what the best conductive cheap copper cable would be.


Maybe a  ZSN copper cable? Does it fit the ZSX?


----------



## Keputs

zr0dfx said:


> Got my ZSX today! Loving the cyan with the darker metal on them. Fit absolutely fine for me.
> 
> Do you guys recommend the foam tips for these? Mine are still on the way.
> 
> ...


----------



## Keputs

zr0dfx said:


> Got my ZSX today! Loving the cyan with the darker metal on them. Fit absolutely fine for me.
> 
> Do you guys recommend the foam tips for these? Mine are still on the way.
> 
> cheers




Got that KZ gold silver mixed 200 core upgrade cable (their term, not mine lol) to go with some spinfit cp155. Awesome sounding stuff.

cheers


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Maybe a  ZSN copper cable? Does it fit the ZSX?



Yes


----------



## Seazer (Sep 21, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Maybe a  ZSN copper cable? Does it fit the ZSX?


I'm contemplating getting this one here

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/3PL1Qeq4

Looks thicc and has good conductivity

One of the reviews says the pins polarity is inverted, I'm not sure if that's bad or what it would do to my iems


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 21, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Been enjoying the ZS6 with foams for a little while now. Got the ZSX out for delivery today and pretty stoked. Might end up being my "endgame" IEMs.


If you think the ZSX might be your end game then the Semkarch CNT-1 is mine.

The fit is very wonky though.


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> If you think the ZSX might be your end game then the Semkarch CNT-1 is mine.
> 
> The fit is very wonky though.



Semkarch cnt1 is very good IMHO. I am testing it out this week. I would say for a single DD iem it is very all rounded and does everything well.
My other higherend DD iems are just marginal improvements in sound quality for way more money and I would be satisfied with it if u don't wanna chase the remaining 10 - 20% improvement.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 22, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Semkarch cnt1 is very good IMHO. I am testing it out this week. I would say for a single DD iem it is very all rounded and does everything well.
> My other higherend DD iems are just marginal improvements in sound quality for way more money and I would be satisfied with it if u don't wanna chase the remaining 10 - 20% improvement.


I finally realized after buying 15 KZ iems why I kept buying them. I was looking for my first perfect iem and I didn't find it once. 

The CNT-1 is good enough to my ears. However, it's nice to have other great iems too.

I'm no longer buying KZ iems but I will keep my eyes on this thread in the hope's that they will one day create a "perfect" iem.


----------



## MyPants (Sep 22, 2019)

Hey All, it's been a while since I've been around the KZ thread, but I'm launching a youtube audiophile review channel, and I just uploaded an unboxing & first impressions video on the ZSX. I'll be doing a full review and giveaway later this week, but the short version of the story is that I'm impressed


----------



## cleg

And here is mine video about KZ ZSX


----------



## Jmop

Throwing down my recommendation for the AS10.

Pros: Coherency, refinement, bass extension, naturalness.

Cons: Lower treble emphasis in relation to mid/upper treble (treble extension).


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm no longer buying KZ iems but I will keep my eyes on this thread in the hope's that they will one day create a "perfect" iem.



If you’re no longer buying them, how will you know when they create a “perfect” IEM? How do you know that they haven’t already done so, and it’s just not one of the ones you own?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 22, 2019)

Slater said:


> If you’re no longer buying them, how will you know when they create a “perfect” IEM? How do you know that they haven’t already done so, and it’s just not one of the ones you own?


I am reading for personal feedback and recommendations but I am not jumping on any hype trains. Especially since the people starting them may even be working for KZ.

I will wait six months or more from release before buying any future KZ.

I like BQEYZ KB1 ($20USD) better than the $100's of dollars I've spent on KZ's.

As a matter of fact, I'm going to try to stop following this thread as well. I will post the great iems I buy in the future in my sig.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I like BQEYZ KB1 ($20USD) better than the $100's of dollars I've spent on KZ's.



I’m surprised you didn’t go with the KB100. It’s head and shoulders above the KB1.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I am reading for personal feedback and recommendations but I am not jumping on any hype trains. Especially since the people starting them may even be working for KZ.
> 
> I will wait six months or more from release before buying any future KZ.
> 
> ...



There will never be "perfect" iem no matter the price nor brand. And again, sound is subjective, what good for you might be crappy for me or vice versa.


----------



## Jmop (Sep 22, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> There will never be "perfect" iem no matter the price nor brand. And again, sound is subjective, what good for you might be ****ty for me or vice versa.


Yup, I gave up finding the perfect earphone a long time ago. Now I’m just looking for one where the positives outweigh the negatives enough for me to enjoy it, and without any glaring faults. The search for the “good enough” iem is still underway, however.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> There will never be "perfect" iem no matter the price nor brand. And again, sound is subjective, what good for you might be ****ty for me or vice versa.



i agree. now i think of collecting my earphones like completing a golf club set or a toolbox:
buy several earphones each for specific needs/uses, and buy the best price to performance ratio (or sometimes just the best sounding that i can afford) for that particular category.

because no matter how good an earphone sound, the ears will sometimes get bored, and it will not excel in all kinds of songs.

so for me, when it comes to earphones it's better to have several great ones than a single excellent one (and also better than too many mediocre/just good enough ones)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 22, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> There will never be "perfect" iem no matter the price nor brand. And again, sound is subjective, what good for you might be ****ty for me or vice versa.


When I say perfect, I mean listenable in a high quality way. Check my signature for many high quality iems, none of them are KZ.

I'm sorry KZ!

After buying 15 iems I don't think I ended up liking the tuning? Or the lack of quality components? No Knowles?


----------



## Seazer

LaughMoreDaily said:


> When I say perfect, I mean listenable in a high quality way. Check my signature for many high quality iems, none of them are KZ.
> 
> I'm sorry KZ!
> 
> After buying 15 iems I don't think I ended up liking the tuning? Or the lack of quality components? No Knowles?


Have you heard the ZSX? They legitimately sound different than every other KZ I've tried. I seriously doubt us posting here are paid shills lmao. Seems a little silly to write off a company forever


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> When I say perfect, I mean listenable in a high quality way. Check my signature for many high quality iems, none of them are KZ.
> 
> I'm sorry KZ!
> 
> After buying 15 iems I don't think I ended up liking the tuning? Or the lack of quality components? No Knowles?



Are there any iems cost under $100 with knowles? Most of KZ iems cost under $50 and only some cost over $100. If you want quality component, you should look elsewhere imho. Maybe look into campfire audio, 1964audio, jhaudio, noble audio, etc. I think you are missing the point of KZ, budget iem that can hang with the big and much more expensive guys. And I think they really do a good job lately. IMHO.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Seazer said:


> Have you heard the ZSX? They legitimately sound different than every other KZ I've tried. I seriously doubt us posting here are paid shills lmao. Seems a little silly to write off a company forever


I'm not sure how I can hear the ZSX without buying them? Lol.

I posted a message a while back saying I wanted to check out other companies iems to be better educated on the iem market. I'm not writing KZ off as I love their isolation and style. 

I'm not sure what my next iem will be. Maybe a Tin Audio T2? TFZ T2? Another BQEYZ?


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 22, 2019)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I'm not sure how I can hear the ZSX without buying them? Lol.
> 
> I posted a message a while back saying I wanted to check out other companies iems to be better educated on the iem market. I'm not writing KZ off as I love their isolation and style.
> 
> I'm not sure what my next iem will be. Maybe a Tin Audio T2? TFZ T2? Another BQEYZ?



Why not campfire? They are full of quality iirc. High end too. And add Astell and kern dap while at it because why not they are quality.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 22, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Are there any iems cost under $100 with knowles? Most of KZ iems cost under $50 and only some cost over $100. If you want quality component, you should look elsewhere imho. Maybe look into campfire audio, 1964audio, jhaudio, noble audio, etc. I think you are missing the point of KZ, budget iem that can hang with the big and much more expensive guys. And I think they really do a good job lately. IMHO.


Audiosense uses Knowles BA's.

Something is wrong with a brand when you have to change the cable to make the iem sound good. Honestly, KZ should be shipping all iems with the ZSN copper cable. That move alone will raise the brand quality immensely. And, better their sound quality.

My max budget on an iem is $75USD.

KZ  doesn't hang with anybody. In terms of high quality smooth sound they're still trying to.


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 22, 2019)

@LaughMoreDaily 

 Have you tried the sister company CCA? They are starting to take tuning very seriously and to another level. I don't see no faults in their latest model; the C12. No metallic-like sound creeping up at you, especially using the star line silicone ear tips, IMHO.

-Clear


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Audiosense uses Knowles BA's.
> 
> Something is wrong with a brand when you have to change the cable to make the iem sound good. Honestly, KZ should be shipping all iems with the ZSN copper cable.
> 
> ...



I enjoyed my brown cabled ZSN just fine really. Maybe you should try the zsx or c12, they are pretty smooth imho.


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 22, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Are there any iems cost under $100 with knowles? Most of KZ iems cost under $50 and only some cost over $100. If you want quality component, you should look elsewhere imho. Maybe look into campfire audio, 1964audio, jhaudio, noble audio, etc. I think you are missing the point of KZ, budget iem that can hang with the big and much more expensive guys. And I think they really do a good job lately. IMHO.





LaughMoreDaily said:


> Audiosense uses Knowles BA's.
> 
> Something is wrong with a brand when you have to change the cable to make the iem sound good. Honestly, KZ should be shipping all iems with the ZSN copper cable.
> 
> ...



Yeah audiosense has some sub $100 USD IEMs using knowles drivers.
Another IEM I just bought recently is the Hisenior B5+ at $78 USD containing 5 knowles BA (now it is still on AE at $83 USD if u follow them).
And yesterday Brainwavz audio released a triple driver knowles BA @ $99.50 called the Brainwavz Hex: https://www.brainwavzaudio.com/products/hex-triple-balanced-armature-earphones

These past 2 years, the CHIFI companies have really been giving us good quality at decent prices IMHO.
And apparently some TOTL IEMs use Bellsing drivers, so sometimes costs doesn't equate linearly with quality. =)

But I gotta say even though KZ had some misses this year, their KZ ZS10 Pro which I use as my daily commuting driver is splendid (even though it doesn't have Knowles drivers). And it seems the reviews for the KZ ZSX and ZS7 are great too.

I think KZ is one of the excellent companies at the sub $50 USD pricing, but there may be better brands at the $100 pricing. (KZ AS16 wasn't too successful for them at the > $100 USD mark, where they had to compete with other big boys).


----------



## chinmie

LaughMoreDaily said:


> When I say perfect, I mean listenable in a high quality way. Check my signature for many high quality iems, none of them are KZ.
> 
> I'm sorry KZ!
> 
> After buying 15 iems I don't think I ended up liking the tuning? Or the lack of quality components? No Knowles?



if you don't mind me asking, not necessarily what you've owned, what is the best sounding iem that you've ever heard (with disregard of the price)?


----------



## linkzex

is there any ear tip you guys recommend for zsx? I hear spinfit is good, which model should I get?


----------



## emeraldstone

linkzex said:


> is there any ear tip you guys recommend for zsx? I hear spinfit is good, which model should I get?


If you are getting Spinfits, the CP155 will fit as it has a diameter range of 6-7mm (the ZSX is ~6mm nozzle diameter). I would personally give the tips that come included in the ZSX a try before deciding to buy different tips. If you want to prioritize isolation, foam tips are usually the ideal choice.


----------



## courierdriver

chinmie said:


> i agree. now i think of collecting my earphones like completing a golf club set or a toolbox:
> buy several earphones each for specific needs/uses, and buy the best price to performance ratio (or sometimes just the best sounding that i can afford) for that particular category.
> 
> because no matter how good an earphone sound, the ears will sometimes get bored, and it will not excel in all kinds of songs.
> ...


In over 40 years in this audio hobby, I can totally agree. It used to be that people had to buy and sell their home audio speakers all the time, to move up to the next level of SQ. With these earphones, all you need is a decent sounding source...and a person can own many with different kinds of sound signatures. Just like speakers; there ain't no BEST FOR EVERYTHING...it's all about different flavors of sound that matches up best with different genres and your mood at the moment. I think back to when I owned my favorite speakers (Totem Model 1) and how much I enjoyed them with all the different types of music I listened to. They were great on some genres...not so much on others. I always wished I could afford to keep multiple pairs of speakers, amps, sources, etc for all the different kinds of music that appeals to me. Then, I discovered headphones and more recently, iems, The advancements in micro driver tech is crazy good, and it's now possible to buy many good quality units...for much less than a single set of quality home speakers. I look at iems like speakers/transducers. Now, instead of having to rely on a single set of speakers for all the different kinds of music I enjoy; I can enjoy many sets of iems to match whatever I feel like listening to at the moment. With a speaker based system; I'd have to deal with a variety of speakers, amps, preamps, sources...and more importantly...room acoustics. All for a considerably more amount of $. I'm done with home audi . I'd rather spend my coin on multiple sets of iems that I can connect to my portable dac/amp and run it off my smartphone...or get a DAP. Smaller, simpler and equal to or better than a multi thousand dollar home system.


----------



## Jmop

courierdriver said:


> In over 40 years in this audio hobby, I can totally agree. It used to be that people had to buy and sell their home audio speakers all the time, to move up to the next level of SQ. With these earphones, all you need is a decent sounding source...and a person can own many with different kinds of sound signatures. Just like speakers; there ain't no BEST FOR EVERYTHING...it's all about different flavors of sound that matches up best with different genres and your mood at the moment. I think back to when I owned my favorite speakers (Totem Model 1) and how much I enjoyed them with all the different types of music I listened to. They were great on some genres...not so much on others. I always wished I could afford to keep multiple pairs of speakers, amps, sources, etc for all the different kinds of music that appeals to me. Then, I discovered headphones and more recently, iems, The advancements in micro driver tech is crazy good, and it's now possible to buy many good quality units...for much less than a single set of quality home speakers. I look at iems like speakers/transducers. Now, instead of having to rely on a single set of speakers for all the different kinds of music I enjoy; I can enjoy many sets of iems to match whatever I feel like listening to at the moment. With a speaker based system; I'd have to deal with a variety of speakers, amps, preamps, sources...and more importantly...room acoustics. All for a considerably more amount of $. I'm done with home audi . I'd rather spend my coin on multiple sets of iems that I can connect to my portable dac/amp and run it off my smartphone...or get a DAP. Smaller, simpler and equal to or better than a multi thousand dollar home system.


It’s feedback like this that steers me away from home audio. Now that is an expensive hobby, and one that is much harder to manage.


----------



## courierdriver (Sep 23, 2019)

Jmop said:


> It’s feedback like this that steers me away from home audio. Now that is an expensive hobby, and one that is much harder to manage.


Agreed 100%! That's why I'm so happy I sold my $10,000 home setup back in 2005. My first foray into iems was a sonic disaster with the Shure E5C, and I quickly switched to an over ear headphone (Grado SR125, and soon after, the SR225). Over the past year+, I've discovered how good the iem tech has advanced and have bought 4 sets. With Moondrop KPE, TFZ NO.3, Nicehck NX7, KZ ZS10 PRO...and multiple upgrade cables...I rec going for a portable setup way more, than keeping with a home based speaker based setup. So much more going for this, and  costs substantially less. I've been much happier exploring this format...and discovering so many new iems. I couldn't have ever done this with speakers. Unaffordable for me.


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> *In over 40 years* in this audio hobby, I can totally agree. It used to be that people had to buy and sell their home audio speakers all the time, to move up to the next level of SQ. With these earphones, all you need is a decent sounding source...and a person can own many with different kinds of sound signatures. Just like speakers; there ain't no BEST FOR EVERYTHING...it's all about different flavors of sound that matches up best with different genres and your mood at the moment. I think back to when I owned my favorite speakers (Totem Model 1) and how much I enjoyed them with all the different types of music I listened to. They were great on some genres...not so much on others. I always wished I could afford to keep multiple pairs of speakers, amps, sources, etc for all the different kinds of music that appeals to me. Then, I discovered headphones and more recently, iems, The advancements in micro driver tech is crazy good, and it's now possible to buy many good quality units...for much less than a single set of quality home speakers. I look at iems like speakers/transducers. Now, instead of having to rely on a single set of speakers for all the different kinds of music I enjoy; I can enjoy many sets of iems to match whatever I feel like listening to at the moment. With a speaker based system; I'd have to deal with a variety of speakers, amps, preamps, sources...and more importantly...room acoustics. All for a considerably more amount of $. I'm done with home audi . I'd rather spend my coin on multiple sets of iems that I can connect to my portable dac/amp and run it off my smartphone...or get a DAP. Smaller, simpler and equal to or better than a multi thousand dollar home system.



U old guy!!


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> U old guy!!


Yup, sure am! But 50+ is the new 30! LOL! Still luvin great sound though... so that's why I'm still here, and looking to help folks not make the same mistakes I did when I was younger. Just looking to help other young audio enthusiasts save a bunch of money and get excellent sound. If I can help someone save themselves the crazy amount of money I spent in my past searching for "audio Nirvana", I'm all over that. There's no such thing as BEST for all things. It doesn't exist. Best you can do is obtain multiple sets, to satisfy your desires for the kind of sound sig your looking for, with specific genres and recordings. I've been around long enough now, to know that "one size DOESN'T fit all".


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

1clearhead said:


> @LaughMoreDaily
> 
> Have you tried the sister company CCA? They are starting to take tuning very seriously and to another level. I don't see no faults in their latest model; the C12. No metallic-like sound creeping up at you, especially using the star line silicone ear tips, IMHO.
> 
> -Clear


I have the C10 and honestly it almost sounds like a KZ sister. It sounds amazing compared to a KZ but I swear the tuning seems similar.

There is no reason for me to buy a KZ/CCA right now. I already own 15 models and have given a couple away. 

I wasnt smart when getting into iems. I stuck to buying one brand solely but that gives you a bad end result. I have now learned that Audiosense and BQEYZ are much better in the same price range.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 23, 2019)

chinmie said:


> if you don't mind me asking, not necessarily what you've owned, what is the best sounding iem that you've ever heard (with disregard of the price)?


My signature says the best iems I have heard: BQEYZ KB1 & KB100. Semkarch CNT-1. Audiosense T100 and T180.

These are in the $50USD bracket.

PS: These are also better than any KZ I own. I also didn't need to change the cable or tips to make them sound great.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

baskingshark said:


> But I gotta say even though KZ had some misses this year, their KZ ZS10 Pro which I use as my daily commuting driver is splendid (even though it doesn't have Knowles drivers). And it seems the reviews for the KZ ZSX and ZS7 are great too.
> 
> I think KZ is one of the excellent companies at the sub $50 USD pricing, but there may be better brands at the $100 pricing. (KZ AS16 wasn't too successful for them at the > $100 USD mark, where they had to compete with other big boys).


I have the ZS7 and honestly it doesnt seem as good as the BQEYZ or Audiosense brands. I need to revisit that idea. But it's how I feel.

I've read a number of bad comments here on the ZS10 Pro. I may try the ZSN Pro before that. Anyone know how much  better in % that the ZS10 Pro is better than the ZSN Pro?


----------



## Seazer (Sep 23, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Why not campfire? They are full of quality iirc. High end too. And add Astell and kern dap while at it because why not they are quality.


I really wish I had the money to blow on an Astell & Kern. My local hifi shop has a bunch of them and they sound so good. I prefer the high end Astell & Kern over the Chord Hugo 2 and Questyle dac amps


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the ZS7 and honestly it doesnt seem as good as the BQEYZ or Audiosense brands. I need to revisit that idea. But it's how I feel.
> 
> I've read a number of bad comments here on the ZS10 Pro. I may try the ZSN Pro before that. Anyone know how much  better in % that the ZS10 Pro is better than the ZSN Pro?



If I may suggest, you better stay away from KZ altogether because you already have that perception that it will be just another KZ that it gonna suck so whatever we say, you will just deny. Better to just move on to other brands and never look back. You happy, others happy, all is well.


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I have the ZS7 and honestly it doesnt seem as good as the BQEYZ or Audiosense brands. I need to revisit that idea. But it's how I feel.
> 
> I've read a number of bad comments here on the ZS10 Pro. I may try the ZSN Pro before that. Anyone know how much  better in % that the ZS10 Pro is better than the ZSN Pro?



I think all of us have different music sound signature preferences and different music genres that we listen to. Music is very subjective after all, and what is excellent for somebody may be lousy for another and vice versa. We all love music at the end of the day and I definitely respect yours and others' opinions!
Some IEMs are more suited for certain genres like for example the ZS7 is very bass dominant and would suit EDM and other bass forward music well. But it might not be the best option for those wanting a neutralish tuning like for classical. And in general the KZ house tuning signature is usually V shaped.
I'm not a KZ fanboy by any means, but I think they have made some great strides recently with their hybrids like the ZSX and ZS10 Pro. Maybe the only complaint I have about ZS10 Pro is that it has a bit of an artificial timbre in the treble, but that's an unfair fault at its price point.

I do hope u find the IEM u are looking for friend! Who knows, KZ may come out with something that is suitable for u one day, if not this is the golden age of CHIFI and there are many other CHIFI brands and price points to suit the different ones of us.


----------



## Jmop

I’m not really sure where to put this but I’m already on this thread so here goes. Companies need to stop with the custom-like “bump” on universal models. It doesn’t add much in securing the fit and more often than not just gets in the way. I’ve had to resell otherwise good iems because I can’t even wear them without discomfort after 20 minutes.


----------



## chinmie

LaughMoreDaily said:


> My signature says the best iems I have heard: BQEYZ KB1 & KB100. Semkarch CNT-1. Audiosense T100 and T180.
> 
> These are in the $50USD bracket.
> 
> PS: These are also better than any KZ I own. I also didn't need to change the cable or tips to make them sound great.



the only KZs that I've heard are the ATE, ATR, ZS3, ZS5, and i stopped buying KZs. 
then after a long journey with other IEMs up and down the price bracket, i impulsively bought the ZS10 Pro because i was curious how much KZ has improved.. and i was pleasantly surprised. now the next one (the terminator) also unanimously reviewed as better than the ZS10 Pro. i probably won't buy it because i don't feel the need to at this moment, heck, i didn't need the ZS10 Pro in the first place. but I'm glad i did, because i can i see the KZ products have progressed in the right direction. 
the ripple effect would be that other companies would race to make even better products (like the Blon, that one is intriguing)


----------



## voicemaster

Jmop said:


> I’m not really sure where to put this but I’m already on this thread so here goes. Companies need to stop with the custom-like “bump” on universal models. It doesn’t add much in securing the fit and more often than not just gets in the way. I’ve had to resell otherwise good iems because I can’t even wear them without discomfort after 20 minutes.



That's why they got the CCA C12 lol


----------



## Keputs

emeraldstone said:


> If you are getting Spinfits, the CP155 will fit as it has a diameter range of 6-7mm (the ZSX is ~6mm nozzle diameter). I would personally give the tips that come included in the ZSX a try before deciding to buy different tips. If you want to prioritize isolation, foam tips are usually the ideal choice.


I agree with the spinfit CP155. Using that now on my ZSX.


----------



## Jmop

voicemaster said:


> That's why they got the CCA C12 lol


I’ve only owned one hybrid (ikko oh1) and I found it to lack a touch of coherency between the bass and the rest of the response, though they were a great buy otherwise including comfort and build. Kinda weary of hybrids for that reason but I’m always open to recommendations.


----------



## Seazer

Jmop said:


> I’m not really sure where to put this but I’m already on this thread so here goes. Companies need to stop with the custom-like “bump” on universal models. It doesn’t add much in securing the fit and more often than not just gets in the way. I’ve had to resell otherwise good iems because I can’t even wear them without discomfort after 20 minutes.


I think the more elongated housing of the ZSX helps distribute the weight across the ear better than something like the Zs10 pro that is more centered around the ear canal. The ZSX feels more secure as a result while the weight of the ZS10 pro is more prone to breaking the seal when using silicone tips. As far as the bump I don't really mind it either way, most of the time the bump doesn't even touch my ear. But that depends on the iem since they are all shaped different. I find the bump on the ZSX to be better shaped than the bump on the ZS3 for sure


----------



## HungryPanda

Wow, I go to bed and wake up to find there has been angst and drama. I just love listening to Chi-Fi and watching (I should really say listening) as they race after the big boys of audio and get pleasantly surprised along the way


----------



## Coldheart29

Jmop said:


> I’m not really sure where to put this but I’m already on this thread so here goes. Companies need to stop with the custom-like “bump” on universal models. It doesn’t add much in securing the fit and more often than not just gets in the way. I’ve had to resell otherwise good iems because I can’t even wear them without discomfort after 20 minutes.



As for many other aspects in this hobby, that's not true for everyone.
For me, that bump makes the ZSR much more comfortable than the ZST. The ZSR stays snug in the ear, i can do anything and they won't move, thus it wont rub atound.
Meanwhile, with the ZST i have to reseat them every now and then, and by moving quite a bit, they also get a bit irritating over long listening sessions.

For me, i'd like them to use it on more models (but maybe making the shells one or two mm smaller would be a good thing).


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 23, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> If I may suggest, you better stay away from KZ altogether because you already have that perception that it will be just another KZ that it gonna suck so whatever we say, you will just deny. Better to just move on to other brands and never look back. You happy, others happy, all is well.


That's a good idea. However, in the distant future when KZ comes out with an iem I buy I will have other brands to compare the new KZ to.

I will then be able to make a better educated decision if the sound quality is any good.

IE: BQEYZ, Audiosense and maybe Tin Audio, TFZ, etc. I heard Dunu is also good?


----------



## HungryPanda

Dunu are very good


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> Dunu are very good


I love your collection of earphones, etc. I wish you would list them in order of favourite to least favourite though.


----------



## HungryPanda

That would be a mammoth task


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

HungryPanda said:


> That would be a mammoth task


I do it all the time.  You will constantly see my signature change. Lol.


----------



## Jmop

Coldheart29 said:


> As for many other aspects in this hobby, that's not true for everyone.
> For me, that bump makes the ZSR much more comfortable than the ZST. The ZSR stays snug in the ear, i can do anything and they won't move, thus it wont rub atound.
> Meanwhile, with the ZST i have to reseat them every now and then, and by moving quite a bit, they also get a bit irritating over long listening sessions.
> 
> For me, i'd like them to use it on more models (but maybe making the shells one or two mm smaller would be a good thing).


To each his own. And good point, the bump would work better on relatively smaller shells. I also don’t use iems while physically active so I am biased there.


----------



## Jmop

Any KZ recommendations for a smooth sound like the AS10 but with better treble extension? The graphs of others look a bit peaky which worries me. That said, the AS10 seems to be effected fairly easily from source and amp changes so perhaps I’ll just use brighter gear to lighten it up.


----------



## Nimweth

Crandall said:


> I've made an entry in the gear section here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsx.23948/


Hello
Can you make an entry in the correct section for the C12, you helped with the ZSX, thank you.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Jmop said:


> Any KZ recommendations for a smooth sound like the AS10 but with better treble extension? The graphs of others look a bit peaky which worries me. That said, the AS10 seems to be effected fairly easily from source and amp changes so perhaps I’ll just use brighter gear to lighten it up.


CCA A10 would be close to this description. All-BAs, the treble is extended.

AS10 are still unique, my first love in IEMs, still listen to them with their a bit grainy sound and gently rolled-off highs, nice for some older recordings. AS10 is quite source sensitive indeed. My DAP is fairly bright/clinical, works well for me.

Now, I got CCA C12 - really great (!!), the highs are perhaps one of the best in KZs/CCA and catered to those who do not like "steely" 

So you may consider getting C12 (or similar KZ ZSX) as the latest step in KZ/CCA development (and their progress is mighty, that what I love about them).

Here is some comparison, I put few month ago that may be helpful:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/com...z-as10-kz-ba10-and-more.910849/#post-15059493
I may update this comparison with KZ AS12, ZS10 pro and C12 one day.
While trying to do comparisons with C12, got caught with just enjoying  music rather than typing


----------



## DjAgetarou

Hi guys! Just got my zs10 pro and they sound awesome. I also got nicehck 16core cable for these but I am confused about the pin orientation (+ve and ground). Can someone help me with this?


----------



## Coldheart29 (Sep 23, 2019)

@DjAgetarou Red pin goes on the right earpiece, white on the left. The blue dot on the pin has to face towards the back of the earpieces (at least on the ZSR). Try this test to check the left/right are properly wired, and this other test to check if you plugged the pins backwards by mistake.


----------



## Jmop

PhonoPhi said:


> CCA A10 would be close to this description. All-BAs, the treble is extended.
> 
> AS10 are still unique, my first love in IEMs, still listen to them with their a bit grainy sound and gently rolled-off highs, nice for some older recordings. AS10 is quite source sensitive indeed. My DAP is fairly bright/clinical, works well for me.
> 
> ...


Killer thread you got there, I appreciate the effort. The C16 seems mighty nice.


----------



## Crandall

Nimweth said:


> Hello
> Can you make an entry in the correct section for the C12, you helped with the ZSX, thank you.


Sure, here it is https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-c12.23959/


----------



## Jmop (Sep 23, 2019)

C10 or C16.. Probably gonna grab one of them to compare with AS10. I’d rather go all BA, C16.


----------



## voicemaster

Jmop said:


> C10 or C16.. Probably gonna grab one of them to compare with AS10. I’d rather go all BA, C16.



Why not C12?


----------



## Podster

Coldheart29 said:


> @DjAgetarou Red pin goes on the right earpiece, white on the left. The blue dot on the pin has to face towards the back of the earpieces (at least on the ZSR). Try this test to check the left/right are properly wired, and this other test to check if you plugged the pins backwards by mistake.



I think your spot on Cold, I've always found the spot to be rear facing on the earpiece as well. Good advice As far as the fit issue between the ZSR/ZST like our individual hearing will be different for all so will fit as all ears are not the same either


----------



## Nimweth

Crandall said:


> Sure, here it is https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-c12.23959/


Thank you. My review is now posted there.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Coldheart29 said:


> @DjAgetarou Red pin goes on the right earpiece, white on the left. The blue dot on the pin has to face towards the back of the earpieces (at least on the ZSR). Try this test to check the left/right are properly wired, and this other test to check if you plugged the pins backwards by mistake.


I've already destroyed two KZ iems - AS10 and ZS7 - by pointing blue dots upside down. My good experience is to direct blue dots (+ pole) towards the nozzles (hope its also KZ + pole).
It could have been caused by one of my 3rd party cables or these KZs had some problem. But with this orientation all my KZs work perfectly. 
Does anyone have verified information about orientation at KZ?


----------



## jeromeaparis (Sep 23, 2019)

Jmop said:


> Any KZ recommendations for a smooth sound like the AS10 but with better treble extension? The graphs of others look a bit peaky which worries me. That said, the AS10 seems to be effected fairly easily from source and amp changes so perhaps I’ll just use brighter gear to lighten it up.


I have the AS10 too, I like it very much but the trebles have a low level for me.
I believe the solution is the AS12, the feedback and frequency curve are clear.

The new ZSX and C12 have a much lower level of trebles


----------



## Coldheart29 (Sep 23, 2019)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I've already destroyed two KZ iems - AS10 and ZS7 - by pointing blue dots upside down. My good experience is to direct blue dots (+ pole) towards the nozzles (hope its also KZ + pole).
> It could have been caused by one of my 3rd party cables or these KZs had some problem. But with this orientation all my KZs work perfectly.
> Does anyone have verified information about orientation at KZ?



Uh, AFAIK, the only thing that happens when plugging them backwards is the transducers playing out of phase, resulting in a distorted sound. And for the Nicehck 16 core cable, it works fine and sounds fine on the ZSR and on the ZSTwith the dot towards the back of the earpieces, and i'd think all the KZ models are wired in the same way (except for eventual ****ups during assembly). Haven't even tried it the other way around honestly, that looked like the intuitive way to plug it in.



Podster said:


> I think your spot on Cold, I've always found the spot to be rear facing on the earpiece as well. Good advice As far as the fit issue between the ZSR/ZST like our individual hearing will be different for all so will fit as all ears are not the same either



Yeah, i can totally see how people with smaller ears/conchas would find the size and shape of the ZSR and similar iems troublesome. It was actually a concern i had at first when i ordered them, but then they arrived and it was love from the first note .


----------



## lgcubana

DjAgetarou said:


> Hi guys! Just got my zs10 pro and they sound awesome. I also got nicehck 16core cable for these but I am confused about the pin orientation (+ve and ground). Can someone help me with this?


If you got the cable with the QDC termination, you’ll know right away if you plugged them in correctly, when you seat them in your ears and wrap the cable over your ear.  As the angled, QDC termination will direct the cable towards the back of your ears.


----------



## mbwilson111

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Anyone know how much better in % that the ZS10 Pro is better than the ZSN Pro?



I always wonder how people quantify that.   Saying that one iem is a certain percentage of another in quality makes no sense to me.



Jmop said:


> I’m not really sure where to put this but I’m already on this thread so here goes. Companies need to stop with the custom-like “bump” on universal models. It doesn’t add much in securing the fit and more often than not just gets in the way. I’ve had to resell otherwise good iems because I can’t even wear them without discomfort after 20 minutes.



What is this bump you are talking about?



LaughMoreDaily said:


> I do it all the time.  You will constantly see my signature change. Lol.



Your signature does not include over 150 iems and 150 earbuds... lol.   You are asking him to spend years and years doing nothing but ranking these things.

I am just satisfied that mine are alphabetized


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Coldheart29 said:


> Uh, AFAIK, the only thing that happens when plugging them backwards is the transducers playing out of phase, resulting in a distorted sound. ....



Yes, that is description how both broken AS10 and ZS7 sound now.


----------



## Coldheart29

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Yes, that is description how both broken AS10 and ZS7 sound now.



Yeah, but the distorted sound should last only for as long as the connector is plugged backwards, plugh it the other way around and it should work fine. All that is happening is that the membranes in the transducers are vibrating in the opposite way they should, generating sounds that have an opposite phase to the one they should have, thus sounding bad.
If that's not the case, something else might have gone wrong.


----------



## Jmop

voicemaster said:


> Why not C12?


Could be an option too.


----------



## Jmop

jeromeaparis said:


> I have the AS10 too, I like it very much but the trebles have a low level for me.
> I believe the solution is the AS12, the feedback and frequency curve are clear.
> 
> The new ZSX and C12 have a much lower level of trebles


This doesn’t look bad as long as the treble is refined, it’s pretty even. Any feedback on the AS12?


----------



## jeromeaparis (Sep 24, 2019)

Jmop said:


> This doesn’t look bad as long as the treble is refined, it’s pretty even. Any feedback on the AS12?



Read this post: "...AS12 and it SHOULD be considered the step up from the AS10..."

https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15078006/

I did order the C12 (not the C10)  for around 32€,  AS12 is around 50€


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I always wonder how people quantify that.   Saying that one iem is a certain percentage of another in quality makes no sense to me.



It sounds 17.6% different to me!


----------



## Jmop (Sep 23, 2019)

jeromeaparis said:


> Read this post: "...AS12 and it SHOULD be considered the step up from the AS10..."
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15078006/
> 
> I did order the C10 for around 32€,  AS12 is around 50€


Thanks for that. C16 is too bright? The graph is nearly identical to the FiiO FA1 which I thought was a nice sounding earphone. Returned due to comfort issues. I fear missing the sub bass of the AS10 however.. Perhaps AS12 is the way to go.


----------



## DjAgetarou

Coldheart29 said:


> @DjAgetarou Red pin goes on the right earpiece, white on the left. The blue dot on the pin has to face towards the back of the earpieces (at least on the ZSR). Try this test to check the left/right are properly wired, and this other test to check if you plugged the pins backwards by mistake.



Thanks



lgcubana said:


> If you got the cable with the QDC termination, you’ll know right away if you plugged them in correctly, when you seat them in your ears and wrap the cable over your ear.  As the angled, QDC termination will direct the cable towards the back of your ears.



The cable I got isn't QDC. I think it's para A


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> It sounds 17.6% different to me!



You are absolutely wrong!  Anyone should be able tell that there is actually a17.89% difference.  Listen closer.


----------



## Jmop

Wonder if that BLON 03 stomps KZ.


----------



## Coldheart29

DjAgetarou said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> The cable I got isn't QDC. I think it's para A



Wait, if it's a para A it's the wrong one, the zs10 pro uses the para C plug. Just to be sure, can you link the cable you bought?


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> You are absolutely wrong!  Anyone should be able tell that there is actually a17.89% difference.  Listen closer.



Ah, you are right as usual! Believe it or not, I also forgot to account for the upgrade cable, which is a 2.72% difference. So in reality the total difference is 20.61%.


----------



## steviewonderbread (Sep 23, 2019)

Jmop said:


> Wonder if that BLON 03 stomps KZ.



I've burned in the BL-03 and listened for at least 30 or 40 hours now. They are excellent, but the microdetail and treble extension in the highest octaves can't quite best the CCA C12. No "stomping" here, but the BLONs are definitely more relaxed and natural. The carbon nano driver in the BLON gives excellent timbre and pretty good imaging performance, although I find the imaging of the C12 to be more precise. I use both IEMs every day for different purposes. I sold my ZS10 Pro to a close friend because the C12 provided a good technical upgrade and got rid of about 80% of that "steely" sound meme that gets talked about here.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Jmop said:


> Thanks for that. C16 is too bright? The graph is nearly identical to the FiiO FA1 which I thought was a nice sounding earphone. Returned due to comfort issues. I fear missing the sub bass of the AS10 however.. Perhaps AS12 is the way to go.


All people are different and have different preferences and opinions...
Those who feels that C16 is bright, surely would think of A10 as "murderous".
I feel that limited highs (both in quantity and quality) is the main limitation of C16.
I would love to have C16 with C12-like highs. I hope that would be the planned C18!
Now, if "steely" of KZ (to me not a problem at all) is a concern, then AS12 is KZ's response to "not steely" (but a bit strangely "buzzy" to my ears).
So if one wants something similar to AS10, while avoiding the treble, -AS12 may be a possible solution.
My impressions of AS12 are still a mixed bag: the bass is great with two BAs; the timbre does not feel overly natural to me in a lot of music, a milder case of X6 syndrome 
It may very well be that AS12 will work nicely for many, but I would prefer A10, and C12.
Similarly, if highs may be a concern - C10 would be a safer option instead of C12.

P. S. The comment offering sone "deductions" based on graphs shows only huge limitations of graphs in such comparisons rather than reflect reality (in my, perhaps, limited by real-life experience with these IEMs).


----------



## SinisterDev

Seazer said:


> Neutron Music Player bypasses the phone's processing and does its own processing. So if you are listening to hard copy files, it is an improvement without having to root for something like viper4android



Indeed. I've been using Neutron for years, and its really quite excellent. They also just did another significant update just recently that's improved it significantly and added some nifty new features.  Ive been considering getting one of those DAC dongles to see if I'd experience an improvement in audio fidelity, but honestly I'm skeptical if I would after this last Neutron update. Ive been listening to some of of my FLACS in 32/384 and they sound absolutely fantastic on my S10+.


----------



## Jmop

steviewonderbread said:


> I've burned in the BL-03 and listened for at least 30 or 40 hours now. They are excellent, but the microdetail and treble extension in the highest octaves can't quite best the CCA C12. No "stomping" here, but the BLONs are definitely more relaxed and natural. The carbon nano driver in the BLON gives excellent timbre and pretty good imaging performance, although I find the imaging of the C12 to be more precise. I use both IEMs every day for different purposes. I sold my ZS10 Pro to a close friend because the C12 provided a good technical upgrade and got rid of about 80% of that "steely" sound meme that gets talked about here.


If they are similar to the Shozy Zero but less grainy in the treble I’ll probably pick them up.


PhonoPhi said:


> All people are different and have different preferences and opinions...
> Those who feels that C16 is bright, surely would think of A10 as "murderous".
> I feel that limited highs (both in quantity and quality) is the main limitation of C16.
> I would love to have C16 with C12-like highs. I hope that would be the planned C18!
> ...


AS12, I’ll probably try that next. Thanks again!


----------



## dcime

One of the best attributes of the CCA-C12...
Prior to the commonly used PVD process, NCVM (non-conductive vacuum metallization) is a vacuum plated coating process that provides both a sleek metallic finish and stable signal transmission.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Sep 23, 2019)

Currently flopping from stock silicones to foams on the ZSX. All I know is I love these things. Favorite IEMs outside of the Periodic Be at this point and even then I'd need another set of the Be to be able to head-to-head.

My last KZ was the ZS6 with foams and obviously the ZSX is in a different league, but the main thing to me is that the treble doesn't have that abrasive factor that KZ IEMs did in the past. It's still got a bit of a spike (with the stock tips), but not at all unpleasant. And damn, the separation.


----------



## dcime

SomeGuyDude said:


> Currently flopping from stock silicones to foams on the ZSX. All I know is I love these things. Favorite IEMs outside of the Periodic Be at this point and even then I'd need another set of the Be to be able to head-to-head.
> 
> My last KZ was the ZS6 with foams and obviously the ZSX is in a different league, but the main thing to me is that the treble doesn't have that abrasive factor that KZ IEMs did in the past. It's still got a bit of a spike (with the stock tips), but not at all unpleasant. And damn, the separation.


Which would you suggest, the ZSX or the CCA C12 and why?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

dcime said:


> Which would you suggest, the ZSX or the CCA C12 and why?



Unfortunately I haven't heard the C12. I don't buy tons of chi-fi like a lot of guys in this thread do. I just like KZ's products and was hoping the ZSX would be my favorite so far and it is. Sticking with the silicones, though I might look to snag some spinfits or spiral dots eventually.


----------



## dcime

Well I’m ready to get on board for the ZSX based on your enthusiasm and confidence in them. Thank you


----------



## Seazer

dcime said:


> Well I’m ready to get on board for the ZSX based on your enthusiasm and confidence in them. Thank you


The C12 have slightly more forward upper Mids and the ZSX have better separation. Personally I prefer the ZSX


----------



## Seazer

SinisterDev said:


> Indeed. I've been using Neutron for years, and its really quite excellent. They also just did another significant update just recently that's improved it significantly and added some nifty new features.  Ive been considering getting one of those DAC dongles to see if I'd experience an improvement in audio fidelity, but honestly I'm skeptical if I would after this last Neutron update. Ive been listening to some of of my FLACS in 32/384 and they sound absolutely fantastic on my S10+.


The recent new feature is the All to DSD mode that converts flac into DSD before sending it out correct? What other features are new? I only recently started using it. Also do you use the default UI colors or did you customize it? I'd like to see some examples of nice color combos haha


----------



## baskingshark

Jmop said:


> Wonder if that BLON 03 stomps KZ.





steviewonderbread said:


> I've burned in the BL-03 and listened for at least 30 or 40 hours now. They are excellent, but the microdetail and treble extension in the highest octaves can't quite best the CCA C12. No "stomping" here, but the BLONs are definitely more relaxed and natural. The carbon nano driver in the BLON gives excellent timbre and pretty good imaging performance, although I find the imaging of the C12 to be more precise. I use both IEMs every day for different purposes. I sold my ZS10 Pro to a close friend because the C12 provided a good technical upgrade and got rid of about 80% of that "steely" sound meme that gets talked about here.



I think comparing the BL-03 to the hybrid/multi BA KZs is like comparing apple and oranges though. They each have their weaknesses and strengths.
I haven't received my BL-03, but the single DDs like BL-03 will usually have better timbre than the hybrids/multi BAs. And usually the latter will excel better at details and clarity/instrument separation than a single DD.
So I guess it really depends what kind of sound signature and music genre u prefer, as @steviewonderbread says. 

Haha if u are subscribed to this thread, the only solution is to buy both!


----------



## dcime

Seazer said:


> The C12 have slightly more forward upper Mids and the ZSX have better separation. Personally I prefer the ZSX


Thank you thats a great help. I love bass but really love separation. Feels like your in the studio during a recording session.


----------



## SinisterDev

Seazer said:


> The recent new feature is the All to DSD mode that converts flac into DSD before sending it out correct? What other features are new? I only recently started using it. Also do you use the default UI colors or did you customize it? I'd like to see some examples of nice color combos haha



Yeah, the All to DSD, Bit-Perfect Playback, Oversampling, and I think a few other things were recently added. It was only after this last update on Android that playing my music at 32/384 became possible. In the past I usually stuck to 24/96 or 192, because whenever I had tried 32/384 with any of my IEMs, the volume was really low, needed to be turned up all the way to even get it decently loud, and there were many instances of background noise, like static crackling that weren't present otherwise. However, all that seems to be gone now! So they must have fixed/improved something. All the albums I've listened to so far sound very good. The background is very clear and black. No hissing or crackling. And volume level is much better. 
And no, Ive actually been using the plain black background all this time lol. I prefer it really. Its the easiest on my eyes. I don't mind the basic color scheme, so I've stuck with it.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Sep 24, 2019)

steviewonderbread said:


> I sold my ZS10 Pro to a close friend because the C12 provided a good technical upgrade and got rid of about 80% of that "steely" sound meme that gets talked about here.


KZ, please, oh, please start making smooth sounding iems. Do it for our hearing!

Smaller companies are doing it already and you're probably the biggest Chifi company.


----------



## 1clearhead

Jmop said:


> I’ve only owned one hybrid (ikko oh1) and I found it to lack a touch of coherency between the bass and the rest of the response, though they were a great buy otherwise including comfort and build. Kinda weary of hybrids for that reason but I’m always open to recommendations.


Then, I second the C12. ...excellent coherency between the bass and the rest of the frequency!


----------



## Seazer

SinisterDev said:


> Yeah, the All to DSD, Bit-Perfect Playback, Oversampling, and I think a few other things were recently added. It was only after this last update on Android that playing my music at 32/384 became possible. In the past I usually stuck to 24/96 or 192, because whenever I had tried 32/384 with any of my IEMs, the volume was really low, needed to be turned up all the way to even get it decently loud, and there were many instances of background noise, like static crackling that weren't present otherwise. However, all that seems to be gone now! So they must have fixed/improved something. All the albums I've listened to so far sound very good. The background is very clear and black. No hissing or crackling. And volume level is much better.
> And no, Ive actually been using the plain black background all this time lol. I prefer it really. Its the easiest on my eyes. I don't mind the basic color scheme, so I've stuck with it.


I do like the stock look a lot, but I've been experimenting with different colors. This one one I made that I think looks pretty good


----------



## dcime

1clearhead said:


> Then, I second the C12. ...excellent coherency between the bass and the rest of the frequency!


Please can you explain why or what KZA provides and C12 provides that makes them different.


----------



## 1clearhead

steviewonderbread said:


> I've burned in the BL-03 and listened for at least 30 or 40 hours now. They are excellent, but the microdetail and treble extension in the highest octaves can't quite best the CCA C12. No "stomping" here, but the BLONs are definitely more relaxed and natural. The carbon nano driver in the BLON gives excellent timbre and pretty good imaging performance, although I find the imaging of the C12 to be more precise. I use both IEMs every day for different purposes. I sold my ZS10 Pro to a close friend because the C12 provided a good technical upgrade and got rid of about 80% of that "steely" sound meme that gets talked about here.


+1 100% behind your statement! I too, listen to both the BLON BL03 and the C12 for different purposes as well!


----------



## Seazer

dcime said:


> Please can you explain why or what KZA provides and C12 provides that makes them different.


Both the ZSX and C12 sound great. They sound very similar and use literally the same drivers. The bass sounds the same between them. The C12 sound more energetic and the ZSX sound more laid back. The C12 is more forward around 2-5khz, raising perceived detail but is less relaxing than the ZSX.


----------



## Seazer

1clearhead said:


> +1 100% behind your statement! I too, listen to both the BLON BL03 and the C12 for different purposes as well!


They are good compliments, a really good dynamic and a really good hybrid depending on what you are feeling


----------



## dcime

Seazer said:


> They are good compliments, a really good dynamic and a really good hybrid depending on what you are feeling


Thank you very much, I always believed that KZ was the originator.


----------



## 1clearhead

1clearhead said:


> +1 100% behind your statement! I too, listen to both the BLON BL03 and the C12 for different purposes as well!


The C12 is more energetic with greater balance and details, while the ZSX sounds more relaxed and not as detailed. C12 has deep and quick bass punch, while ZSX has deep low rumble bass, but not as quick. This is probably do to the way they are built differently, though they incorporate the same drivers.

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

@dcime
...Overall, the C12 and ZSX are excellent choices! From here on, it's more of a personal choice.


----------



## SinisterDev

Seazer said:


> I do like the stock look a lot, but I've been experimenting with different colors. This one one I made that I think looks pretty good


That looks pretty good. I think i might have to take a look at the customization options again and play around with it a bit. Its been a while since I've looked.


----------



## dcime

1clearhead said:


> @dcime
> ...Overall, the C12 and ZSX are excellent choices! From here on, it's more of a personal choice.


I am going for the C12.


----------



## voicemaster

My preference is the ZSX over C12 as I like the tuning better. The ZSX reminds me of my he1000 sound with its splashy treble with hardly any sibilance.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 24, 2019)

SinisterDev said:


> That looks pretty good. I think i might have to take a look at the customization options again and play around with it a bit. Its been a while since I've looked.


Here is the color settings if you want it to look like mine


----------



## SiggyFraud (Sep 24, 2019)

News from KZ camp:
KZ New TWS E10， Qualcomm QC3020, 1 dynamic + 4 balanced armature coming soon !
https://www.facebook.com/491691031262008/posts/756933691404406/


----------



## 1clearhead

SiggyFraud said:


> News from KZ camp:
> KZ New TWS E10， Qualcomm QC3020, 1 dynamic + 4 balanced armature coming soon !
> https://www.facebook.com/491691031262008/posts/756933691404406/


Nice look!


----------



## Seazer (Sep 24, 2019)

SiggyFraud said:


> News from KZ camp:
> KZ New TWS E10， Qualcomm QC3020, 1 dynamic + 4 balanced armature coming soon !
> https://www.facebook.com/491691031262008/posts/756933691404406/


Is that a new KZ logo? Haha
Also are those going to be TRN BT20S true wireless competitor attachments?


----------



## Jmop

The C12 measurements show quite a drop off after 5k followed by a huge peak at 10k. Is that noticeable while listening? The way I see it, the treble won’t sound obviously sucked out since 5k is generally a more sensitive frequency than 10k but maybe on closer listening you can notice some hollowness in the treble? Just curious.


----------



## Caipirina (Sep 24, 2019)

Seazer said:


> Is that a new KZ logo? Haha
> Also are those going to be TRN BT20S true wireless competitor attachments?



they call them TWS ... so, yes, I guess ...




oh, wait ... just reading through some of the comments ... maybe those hooks are not at all detachable ... I thought they are, but slowly i am realizing that maybe not all the BT tech fits in there ...  ... now I wonder if there will be a charging box ...


----------



## Nimweth (Sep 24, 2019)

Seazer said:


> The C12 have slightly more forward upper Mids and the ZSX have better separation. Personally I prefer the ZSX


Yes, I think I do as well. The ZSX reminds me of my favourite ZS7 with a bit more detail and treble extension. Soundstage is wonderful too. C12 is a little more technical and I seem to enjoy my music more on the ZSX.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Seazer said:


> Is that a new KZ logo? Haha
> Also are those going to be TRN BT20S true wireless competitor attachments?


Hard to say. The shells don't seem to be dettachable - otherwise they'd have probably shown it in the pictures.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Review of CCA C12 and comparison with KZ ZSX: https://audiofool.reviews/2019/09/10/cca-c12/


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 24, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> Yes, I think I do as well. The ZSX reminds me of my favourite ZS7 with a bit more detail and treble extension. Soundstage is wonderful too. C12 is a little more technical and I seem to enjoy my music more on the ZSX.


Yup! I do agree about the ZSX sounding slightly better than the ZS7 in bass rumble and clearer and better extended details. But, I can't seem to wear them for more than 20 minutes no matter what I do. Believe me, I tried all types of ear tips ranging from silicone, soft silicone, foam, comply ear tips. It just doesn't work for me for long listening sessions because of the housing. Though, I gotta say! ...I take my hat-off to the sister company CCA for pulling it off on the C12 with there compact size, great technicality and balance where I can listen for many hours to such a mature listening experience that can easily compete or rival expensive and branded models, in my honest 2 cents experience!


----------



## Nimweth

1clearhead said:


> Yup! I do agree about the ZSX sounding slightly better than the ZS7 in bass rumble and clearer and better extended details. But, I can't seem to wear them for more than 20 minutes no matter what I do. Believe me, I tried all types of ear tips ranging from silicone, soft silicone, foam, comply ear tips. It just doesn't work for me for long listening sessions because of the housing. Though, I gotta say! ...I take my hat-off to the sister company CCA for pulling it off on the C12 with there compact size, great technicality and balance where I can listen for many hours to such a mature listening experience that can easily compete or rival expensive and branded models, in my honest 2 cents experience!


Of course if you have a problem with fit, that will impact on the sound and comfort. Luckily I find them very comfortable with the Starline tips and my Hifi Hear hybrid cable. The C12 is very good and the best CCA so far and displays superb details and clarity but I feel the ZSX has a more integrated presentation and is more relaxing to listen to. The difference is not huge, though, and I really enjoy both of them!


----------



## dcime

SiggyFraud said:


> News from KZ camp:
> KZ New TWS E10， Qualcomm QC3020, 1 dynamic + 4 balanced armature coming soon !
> https://www.facebook.com/491691031262008/posts/756933691404406/


Wow. The behind ear are terrible for glasses wearers. Those pipes look shiney and huge, I know Haha,  All this makes the earbuds disproportionately tiny in appearance.


----------



## Jmop

BLON got my dollar. Looking forward to hearing it in the next couple weeks. I have a feeling I’ll be letting the AS10 go but who knows.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ, please, oh, please start making smooth sounding iems. Do it for our hearing!
> 
> Smaller companies are doing it already and you're probably the biggest Chifi company.



I can say the ZSX has absolutely eliminated that metallic treble problem. Dunno about the others. I can listen to paper-thin black metal no problems.


----------



## Coldheart29

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ, please, oh, please start making smooth sounding iems. Do it for our hearing!
> 
> Smaller companies are doing it already and you're probably the biggest Chifi company.


Well, the ZSR and ED16 are two smooth sounding iems.
Just a shame they haven't made any higher tier one of that kind (meanig zs10pro/zsx tier).


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> Yes, I think I do as well. The ZSX reminds me of my favourite ZS7 with a bit more detail and treble extension. Soundstage is wonderful too. C12 is a little more technical and I seem to enjoy my music more on the ZSX.



Your killin' me here Nim, 11/11 is still 47 days out


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I can definitely agree on the musicality of the ZSX. Despite being a Chi-Fi 5ba/1dd hybrid for not much money, the coherence is really impressive.

I tend to separate headphones into two categories: the ones I turn up because some aspect of the FR is lacking and I want to get more of it, and the ones I turn up because they sound so great I just want more of them. The ZSX is absolutely in the latter category. They sound fantastic at minuscule volumes but I keep gradually ticking the volume upwards just because wow. Day 2 and I'm definitely in love.


----------



## Slater

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ, please, oh, please start making smooth sounding iems. Do it for our hearing!
> 
> Smaller companies are doing it already and you're probably the biggest Chifi company.



They already have. ZSX and C12.


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> News from KZ camp:
> KZ New TWS E10， Qualcomm QC3020, 1 dynamic + 4 balanced armature coming soon !
> https://www.facebook.com/491691031262008/posts/756933691404406/



Wow, those are badass looking. If they can actually make a functional Bluetooth adapter, I’m all over those!


----------



## edoin

Slater said:


> Wow, those are badass looking. If they can actually make a functional Bluetooth adapter, I’m all over those!



Definitely a looker indeed!


----------



## voicemaster

dcime said:


> Wow. The behind ear are terrible for glasses wearers. Those pipes look shiney and huge, I know Haha,  All this makes the earbuds disproportionately tiny in appearance.



I wear glasses and I never have any problem with my bt20s that us much bulkier than the kz here.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> Wow, those are badass looking. If they can actually make a functional Bluetooth adapter, I’m all over those!



Agreed, and I'll bet the tubes are there for better battery and reception, so let's roll. I'll buy a set soon as they're out.


----------



## Caipirina

OH NO, they have done it again !!!! The RIGHT bud is on the LEFT side and vice versa!!!


   

So, there's 3 colors, being released 10/8 (black) 10/14 (grey) and 10/21 (white)
Looks like price is my predicted 79$ ... with 3 dealers on AE so far showing 59 / 69 and 86$ ...


----------



## moisespr123

Slater said:


> Wow, those are badass looking. If they can actually make a functional Bluetooth adapter, I’m all over those!



So, is it safe to assume these are a module and IEM combo?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Caipirina said:


> OH NO, they have done it again !!!! The RIGHT bud is on the LEFT side and vice versa!!!



LMAO I almost mentioned that with the ZSX box. The earpieces themselves are labeled correctly but in the box the left/right is backwards.


----------



## Slater (Sep 24, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> I wear glasses and I never have any problem with my bt20s that us much bulkier than the kz here.



Same here. I wear my BT20 with glasses all the time. You’d think it would be uncomfortable as heck based on photos of the BT20, but once you wear them with glasses. you don’t even feel them.



moisespr123 said:


> So, is it safe to assume these are a module and IEM combo?



Seeing as how there hasn’t been a single photo showing the shell and adapter as separate pieces, I would say it’s a fairly safe assumption that they’re fixed together and not removable. We’ll just have to wait and see once they come out though.

_*Update: Does anyone read Chinese? What do all of these features say? Anything about a removable cable?
*_


----------



## Slater (Sep 24, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> OH NO, they have done it again !!!! The RIGHT bud is on the LEFT side and vice versa!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think they do that because it looks nicer in the case. I can totally understand how it would be irritating as heck for the OCD amongst us though.

No one has anything *even close* to a 5-driver hybrid TWS on the market, not even the Western big boys! Those color choices and design are very sophisticated and premium looking.

It’s too bad some members have “stopped buying KZs”. With the ZSX, the C12, and now this sexy beast, it seems that KZ has been hitting home run after home run.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> They already have. ZSX and C12.


He knows it well now!
It is just his last line of the resistance fading away...


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## Detectit

Received my ZSX today... From the first minute falling in love. 
These are some fine IEM's that sub bass rumbles you eardrums out very nice. 

Highs are clear if it's fatiguing I can't say for now. But I like it.


----------



## maxxevv

Slater said:


> Same here. I wear my BT20 with glasses all the time. You’d think it would be uncomfortable as heck based on photos of the BT20, but once you wear them with glasses. you don’t even feel them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Basically just a diagram explaining the various materials used.  The rear metal portion behind the ears thing is anodized aluminium.  The other metal surfaces are plated alloys.  

It uses touch controls according to the label.


----------



## Slater (Sep 24, 2019)

maxxevv said:


> Basically just a diagram explaining the various materials used.  The rear metal portion behind the ears thing is anodized aluminium.  The other metal surfaces are plated alloys.
> 
> It uses touch controls according to the label.



Cool, thanks for checking!

I also found this photo, which shows where the magnetic charge points are:



It also lists exactly what drivers are used. I’m not exactly thrilled about the 2x30095 in the nozzle though.


----------



## voicemaster

If this E10 sound signature is like zs10pro then kz has a winner here. Probably the best sounding tws to date if they can match the sound of zs10pro.


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> If this E10 sound signature is like zs10pro then kz has a winner here. Probably the best sounding tws to date if they can match the sound of zs10pro.



And this is why I might actually hold off a bit, maybe wait for 11/11 or some other special ... or reviews  Started playing with my BT20 & various KZ IEMs today again .. and with the ZS 10pro they are amazing (also nice with the AS16, but only for very high quality recordings / classical / OST (Hans Zimmer) )

 

But who am I kidding ... the E10 look cool, such a fine package (snicker   ) ... and as a KZ fanboy i kinda HAVE to have them


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> They already have. ZSX and C12.



All that talk about the ZSX made me look again ...  has anyone ordered the cyan version and can confirm if indeed it has a darker grey face plate? I was a bit bummed out when the first teaser pics made the zsx look all black ... but there is no black now ... the cyan at least looks darker ...


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> All that talk about the ZSX made me look again ...  has anyone ordered the cyan version and can confirm if indeed it has a darker grey face plate? I was a bit bummed out when the first teaser pics made the zsx look all black ... but there is no black now ... the cyan at least looks darker ...



It does have a darker metal color iirc.


----------



## serveth

I don’t see AAC support, only SBC and aptX...


----------



## voicemaster

Caipirina said:


> And this is why I might actually hold off a bit, maybe wait for 11/11 or some other special ... or reviews  Started playing with my BT20 & various KZ IEMs today again .. and with the ZS 10pro they are amazing (also nice with the AS16, but only for very high quality recordings / classical / OST (Hans Zimmer) )
> 
> 
> 
> But who am I kidding ... the E10 look cool, such a fine package (snicker   ) ... and as a KZ fanboy i kinda HAVE to have them



Well if the e10 can match zs10pro + bt20 combo then it is the better tws in term of implementation of tws. With bt20/s, you need to turn them on individually, with the e10, assuming they work like other tws, you just need to pop them out the case and they connect automatically.


----------



## Caipirina

serveth said:


> I don’t see AAC support, only SBC and aptX...



that would be weird .. and a bummer


----------



## Caipirina

voicemaster said:


> Well if the e10 can match zs10pro + bt20 combo then it is the better tws in term of implementation of tws. With bt20/s, you need to turn them on individually, with the e10, assuming they work like other tws, you just need to pop them out the case and they connect automatically.



Also .. they look much sleeker   ... i know .. I will end up getting them ... but I am trying this time to NOT pull the trigger right away


----------



## Mouseman

Caipirina said:


> All that talk about the ZSX made me look again ...  has anyone ordered the cyan version and can confirm if indeed it has a darker grey face plate? I was a bit bummed out when the first teaser pics made the zsx look all black ... but there is no black now ... the cyan at least looks darker ...


I have it, it's not a "pure" silver, it's a little darker. But definitely not black.


----------



## Mouseman

Slater said:


> Cool, thanks for checking!
> 
> I also found this photo, which shows where the magnetic charge points are:
> 
> ...


Can anyone translate the arrow where it says "PCB"? It almost looks like a standard (non-C) set of plugs.


----------



## Zerohour88

Antdroid's review of the KZ ZSX (among the few reviewers I trust):

https://www.antdroid.net/2019/09/kz-zsx-review.html

and regarding the recent "steely sounding" meme going around, do take note that BA vs DD timbre issues do exist. Some might not like it, some might not even notice it. Fact is, both transducers have specific advantages and disadvantages. Making fun of people asking about it is not really conducive to discussions.


----------



## antdroid

Thanks for the plug 

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. My biggest complaint with this was the large size + large nozzle diameter and length. That combination did not make this iem fit well. I do like how it sounds for the most part. It's lacks definition, but i like the overall tonality of it -- warm, rich, with some upper air.


----------



## Nimweth

Caipirina said:


> All that talk about the ZSX made me look again ...  has anyone ordered the cyan version and can confirm if indeed it has a darker grey face plate? I was a bit bummed out when the first teaser pics made the zsx look all black ... but there is no black now ... the cyan at least looks darker ...


They are a kind of charcoal grey colour. I included a picture of the earpieces in my review.


----------



## Zerohour88

antdroid said:


> Thanks for the plug
> 
> If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. My biggest complaint with this was the large size + large nozzle diameter and length. That combination did not make this iem fit well. I do like how it sounds for the most part. It's lacks definition, but i like the overall tonality of it -- warm, rich, with some upper air.



doing my part plugging one of the best reviewer on r/headphones

I'm actually quite curious about the supposed "TOTL tuning" part, since I've been partial to people liking a headphone more if they like the tuning even if the overall "sound quality" part is a bit lower. But at some point, its hard to ignore the overall lo-res feeling of it all. Even on casual listening. Its hard being an old stubborn pedant


----------



## antdroid (Sep 24, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> doing my part plugging one of the best reviewer on r/headphones
> 
> I'm actually quite curious about the supposed "TOTL tuning" part, since I've been partial to people liking a headphone more if they like the tuning even if the overall "sound quality" part is a bit lower. But at some point, its hard to ignore the overall lo-res feeling of it all. Even on casual listening. Its hard being an old stubborn pedant



TOTL tuning can be a lot of different tunings. I was trying to emphasize that it is tuned similarly to how my personal favorite TOTL iems sound (i.e. the Z1R, VX, and Solaris, and to a certain degree the Andromeda Gold). These all feature a warm, balanced sound signature with a gentle v-shape - i.e. a slight boost in the bass and lower mids, and a boost in the upper mids and lower treble -- but not as a big as the harman/diffuse field targets -- and extended treble that isnt overly bright and harsh. The ZSX has that type of frequency response. This is actually a classic example of why FR graphs dont tell the whole story. It has generally a similar look to some of those, but it has no where the same type of resolution and speed. Like I mentioned, the dynamic driver is a little slow and doesnt have have any type of detail textures/layers that the Z1R spits out, which is really nice. And it doesnt have all the microdetails that you'll hear from something at a bigger price point. But, the overall sound from afar sounds similar.


----------



## Crandall

Just got the ZSX about an hour ago. Sounds fantastic and is a definite upgrade overall from the ZS7 and AS10 i used before. It takes both of their strengths (Bass for the ZS7 and Mids for the AS10) and none of the weaknesses (Treble peaks) and adds some nice upper treble to it. One thing I did notice, is that there's no way that the sensitivity is really 111db at 24ohm, as it's overall a bit quieter than the 105db and 24ohm that the zs7 is rated at.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Mouseman said:


> Can anyone translate the arrow where it says "PCB"? It almost looks like a standard (non-C) set of plugs.


According to the google translate app (where you can point your phone at the text and have it auto-translate), it says "Warm and golden PCB component main control board" which isn't exactly helpful.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Sep 24, 2019)

Zerohour88 said:


> doing my part plugging one of the best reviewer on r/headphones
> 
> I'm actually quite curious about the supposed "TOTL tuning" part, since I've been partial to people liking a headphone more if they like the tuning even if the overall "sound quality" part is a bit lower. But at some point, its hard to ignore the overall lo-res feeling of it all. Even on casual listening. Its hard being an old stubborn pedant



I forget who said it, but a wise observation was that frequency response matters the most, everything else is bonus. I do not care how great the separation, clarity, imaging, and resolution are. If the FR is wrong, I'm not gonna enjoy the headphone, and I would wager most of us are the same way, despite arguments to the contrary.

If I gave you a headphone with a wonky curve, like it had the midsection sucked out and a huge treble spike, you wouldn't care how great the technicalities are, it's gonna sound like a hollow ear-piercing mess. Similarly, if I give you one that's exactly how you like it, you're probably not gonna be too bothered if the treble is a bit smeared or the bass could be tighter. That's why the ZSX works so damn well for me.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 24, 2019)

Wow I just got the BLON 03 and I'm pretty impressed  it sounds great. Comfort is definitely superior to the ZSX. Sound is smooth. Bass is different than the ZSX. I can't quite put my finger on what's different, the ZSX bass has a bit more rumble and feels a bit fuller. I think the ZSX has more upper bass while the BLON bass dips harder and faster after 80hz, so the sub bass feels less supported and full. Sub bass sounds different between the two as well. The bass sounds more similar between the two if you bump bass on the BLON at 125hz up about 2.5-3db. The ZSX has more forward details while the BLON is laid back in the treble. Separation and soundstage are also better on the ZSX. I like the BLON more than the TFZ no 3 for sure though. Somewhere around 5-8k is a bit edgier than the ZSX but is less offensive than the Guideray GR-i. My favorite thing about the BLON is the comfort for sure, they fit well and are smooth to the touch, I feel like I could sleep in them, which is something I definitely couldn't do with the ZSX.

When playing Suite-Pee by System of a Down on the ZSX, you can make out the cymbal crashes on that sides of the headspace that sound separate from the extremely heavy riffing going on slightly closer to your head. On the BLON the cymbals sound less separated from the riffs and feel like they are on the same plane. The sound is more smoothed out and easier to listen to though, while detail is better retrieved on the ZSX


----------



## dcime

antdroid said:


> TOTL tuning can be a lot of different tunings. I was trying to emphasize that it is tuned similarly to how my personal favorite TOTL iems sound (i.e. the Z1R, VX, and Solaris, and to a certain degree the Andromeda Gold). These all feature a warm, balanced sound signature with a gentle v-shape - i.e. a slight boost in the bass and lower mids, and a boost in the upper mids and lower treble -- but not as a big as the harman/diffuse field targets -- and extended treble that isnt overly bright and harsh. The ZSX has that type of frequency response. This is actually a classic example of why FR graphs dont tell the whole story. It has generally a similar look to some of those, but it has no where the same type of resolution and speed. Like I mentioned, the dynamic driver is a little slow and doesnt have have any type of detail textures/layers that the Z1R spits out, which is really nice. And it doesnt have all the microdetails that you'll hear from something at a bigger price point. But, the overall sound for afar sounds similar.


Hi
So if you are not too keen on the ZSX would you recommend the CCA version?
Thanks


----------



## dcime

Detectit said:


> Received my ZSX today... From the first minute falling in love.
> These are some fine IEM's that sub bass rumbles you eardrums out very nice.
> 
> Highs are clear if it's fatiguing I can't say for now. But I like it.


They are really that good maybe the best you’ve heard to date?


----------



## Aparker2005

Got my Ultimate Ear ue5 customs so I'm gonna keep my frequently used Zs10 pros for backup. Almost pains me to sell them as I haven't used them much, but I'm gonna let my AS16s go if anyone in the US would like to buy them! 

Looks like I'm ending my kz journey for a good while. These UEs are something else, but they don't take anything away from the kz except for fit.


----------



## Caipirina

Wonder if this color combo (black silver) will become available eventually...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Aparker2005 said:


> Got my Ultimate Ear ue5 customs so I'm gonna keep my frequently used Zs10 pros for backup. Almost pains me to sell them as I haven't used them much, but I'm gonna let my AS16s go if anyone in the US would like to buy them!
> 
> Looks like I'm ending my kz journey for a good while. These UEs are something else, but they don't take anything away from the kz except for fit.



Quick rundown on the AS16 sound? I was intrigued by them for being 8BA per side but wasn't ready to drop full price.


----------



## Aparker2005

SomeGuyDude said:


> Quick rundown on the AS16 sound? I was intrigued by them for being 8BA per side but wasn't ready to drop full price.



To me they're extremely detailed, some of the best separation I've heard. Bass is present but not overwhelming. Highs and mids to me are excellent. Huge sound stage. Hope this helps!


----------



## antdroid

dcime said:


> Hi
> So if you are not too keen on the ZSX would you recommend the CCA version?
> Thanks



I have not heard the CCA vesion, sorry. The only thing I'm not liking about the ZSX is the large size making it uncomfortable to wear. I generally find it sounds nice for what it's priced at.


----------



## Seazer

antdroid said:


> I have not heard the CCA vesion, sorry. The only thing I'm not liking about the ZSX is the large size making it uncomfortable to wear. I generally find it sounds nice for what it's priced at.


Everyone has different sized ears and ear canals and prefer different things, hence the wide variety of tips haha. I think i have bigger than normal ear canals so the larger bore doesn't bother me and helps get a tighter seal in my big ears. It's another reason my favorite tips are the Sony silicone, because they are flat on top, giving more structure, and support for someone with larger ear canals, as pictured here


----------



## Caipirina

Aparker2005 said:


> To me they're extremely detailed, some of the best separation I've heard. Bass is present but not overwhelming. Highs and mids to me are excellent. Huge sound stage. Hope this helps!



Pretty much confirming what @Aparker2005 is saying. Draw back is that they will amplify imperfections on lesser recordings / streams. Love them for my HQ files, but not so much for listening to mixcloud.


----------



## Seazer

Caipirina said:


> Pretty much confirming what @Aparker2005 is saying. Draw back is that they will amplify imperfections on lesser recordings / streams. Love them for my HQ files, but not so much for listening to mixcloud.


Yey they very much have a hifi sound, making good recordings sound better, and making bad recordings more obvious. The BLON 03 is more forgiving for sure


----------



## Detectit

dcime said:


> They are really that good maybe the best you’ve heard to date?



For me yes...(I am not a pro and don't buy IEM's 200 dollar +) and of course also depending on what kind of music.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Sep 25, 2019)

Aparker2005 said:


> To me they're extremely detailed, some of the best separation I've heard. Bass is present but not overwhelming. Highs and mids to me are excellent. Huge sound stage. Hope this helps!


My AS16 and AS12 sound great with Shanling M0 DAP or mobile phone. But with A&K SR15 DAP harshy mids (AS16) and heights (AS12) appear very often on higher volume. It could be maybe because of worse technicalities of KZ BAs or tuning for an average players.

EDIT: Harshness was caused by setting in SR15


----------



## 1clearhead (Sep 25, 2019)

antdroid said:


> I have not heard the CCA vesion, sorry. *The only thing I'm not liking about the ZSX is the large size making it uncomfortable to wear*. I generally find it sounds nice for what it's priced at.


Do yourself a favor and get the C12. They are differently tuned and you might find the smaller size easier to wear, IMHO. 

PS. They both are family anyway...


Left-ZSX / Right-C12

-Clear


----------



## Seazer (Sep 25, 2019)

Waiting patiently for the V90 to complete my trifecta of top tier budget iems


----------



## DynamicEars

1clearhead said:


> Do yourself a favor and get the C12. They are differently tuned and you might find the smaller size easier to wear, IMHO.
> 
> PS. They both are family anyway...
> 
> ...



Actually Im quite curious and almost sure that you're the owner of CCA since you're always praising CCA products everywhere. Tell me that CCA is acronym of Clearhead Company Audio


----------



## phikr1

any recommendation for under $50 KZ or CCA earphone for listening to Rock/Metal music ?

i finnd quite nice offer for CCA C10, do you guys thinks its good enough?


----------



## DynamicEars

phikr1 said:


> any recommendation for under $50 KZ or CCA earphone for listening to Rock/Metal music ?
> 
> i finnd quite nice offer for CCA C10, do you guys thinks its good enough?



CCA C12 or KZ ZSX if you want their brand. The best KZ/CCA in the moment


----------



## serveth

phikr1 said:


> any recommendation for under $50 KZ or CCA earphone for listening to Rock/Metal music ?



I have DT 990 Pro for desktop but I prefer ZS10 Pro for metal


----------



## phikr1

DynamicEars said:


> CCA C12 or KZ ZSX if you want their brand. The best KZ/CCA in the moment


i can buy the cca c10 for $15 less here, do you think it worth the difference ?? id prefer to save some money when i could. 

whats make cca c12 and kz zsx different to each other ?


----------



## phikr1

serveth said:


> I have DT 990 Pro for desktop but I prefer ZS10 Pro for metal


how do you describe the zs10 pro sound? what make it stand out from the rest of kz earphone for listening to metal? also one more thing, does it able to produce a clear sound of each instrument (guitar, bass, piano/keyboard, violin, drum etc) ?


----------



## serveth

phikr1 said:


> how do you describe the zs10 pro sound? what make it stand out from the rest of kz earphone for listening to metal? also one more thing, does it able to produce a clear sound of each instrument (guitar, bass, piano/keyboard, violin, drum etc) ?


I had ZS6, didn't have bass as nice as ZS10 Pro, a bit sharp sounds for high tones. I also tried FiiO FA1, it sounds nice but lacking warm bass like ZS10 Pro, drums were weak. I don't know how to describe, I can hear strings of guitar with bass and vibration but I didn't hear it with others. And it has very good instrument separation and quite wide.


----------



## DynamicEars

and ZSX is better than ZS10 Pro overall, and better timbre (ZS10 pro sounds metallic / steely).
You can browse about CCA C12 and ZSX on the thread, not that i dont want to help but they've discussed so much.


----------



## moisespr123

Between the ZS10 Pro and ZSX, I'd go with the ZSX 

Maybe because of the more balanced tuning of the ZSX.

I'm still having a hard time sometimes, switching between the Hidizs MS4 and the ZSX. The ZSX just has that sparkling treble the Hidizs misses, but the bass in the Hidizs has a bit more rumble to it, and focuses a bit more in the mids too.

However, I'm in the point where I'm using mostly the ZSX because of how musically they sound, as well as it's sound stage, especially the width. The MS4 is way too much forward, and I can't go back to them because of that. I feel the ZSX being a $50 IEM vs the MS4 being over $200, the ZSX offers a more musical tone, better sound separation, wide soundstage, and a less overwhelming bass that makes the sound more enjoyable. The MS4 bass can sometimes mess with the mids. This is an issue that I haven't found with the ZSX.


----------



## phikr1

DynamicEars said:


> and ZSX is better than ZS10 Pro overall, and better timbre (ZS10 pro sounds metallic / steely).
> You can browse about CCA C12 and ZSX on the thread, not that i dont want to help but they've discussed so much.


thanks. yeah im just trying to get some direction here. gonna read some full review on them later.



moisespr123 said:


> Between the ZS10 Pro and ZSX, I'd go with the ZSX
> 
> Maybe because of the more balanced tuning of the ZSX.
> 
> ...


thanks for your feedback, i think i might spend a bit more and get the ZSX


----------



## Mouseman

phikr1 said:


> thanks. yeah im just trying to get some direction here. gonna read some full review on them later.
> 
> 
> thanks for your feedback, i think i might spend a bit more and get the ZSX


I have both, and I would highly recommend spending the extra money for the ZSX. I loved the ZS10 Pro, but the ZSX is far superior in sound and comfort.


----------



## phikr1

nappoler said:


> https://hifigo.com/products/kz-e10-...4dd-hybrid-10-driver-units-bt5-0-aptx-earbuds this KZ E10 TWS only $60 for pre-order


thanks buddy but i prefer mine wired, also im looking for something i can get from local online store here so i dont have to spend extra on shipping.


----------



## phikr1

Mouseman said:


> I have both, and I would highly recommend spending the extra money for the ZSX. I loved the ZS10 Pro, but the ZSX is far superior in sound and comfort.


yeah figure that too , thanks.


----------



## phikr1 (Sep 25, 2019)

since we are in KZ thread, id also like to ask about the build quality and ergonomic of KZ, since im gonna use it while commuting and also i want something that would last for 2-3 years


----------



## baskingshark

phikr1 said:


> since we are KZ thread, id like to ask about the build quality and ergonomic of KZ, since im gonna use it while commuting and also i want something that would last for 2-3 years



I own 4 KZs and my oldest KZs (ZS6 and original ZS10) have been used for 2 years and they are still going strong today. They even outlasted 2 of my MIDFI Westones, which cost way more. I know others in this forum had QC issues with their KZs, so sometimes it may be down to luck. 

Ergonomics it depends on which model. The original ZS10 had a super huge shell and was difficult to fit. The ZS10 Pro is quite ergonomic fitting IMO. I read that the new ZSX is bigger than the ZS10 Pro, but I don't have it to confirm the fit and comfort. For my KZs, I use spinfit CP 100 eartips on them, and this improves the isolation and comfort. YMMV.


----------



## Mouseman

phikr1 said:


> since we are in KZ thread, id also like to ask about the build quality and ergonomic of KZ, since im gonna use it while commuting and also i want something that would last for 2-3 years


I think all of their recent gear that I have is built like a tank. I've had KZs for a couple of years now, and haven't had a single problem with them. They have survived some rough handling, and keep on going. If I had to pick a weak area, I'd say their cables are most likely to fail, but I've upgraded almost all of mine so it's not a concern (and they're easy to replace, anyway). I had one of the pins get stuck on an older pair a while back (all plastic body, can't remember which model), but I was able to extract it with tweezers and replaced the cable.


----------



## phikr1

Mouseman said:


> I think all of their recent gear that I have is built like a tank. I've had KZs for a couple of years now, and haven't had a single problem with them. They have survived some rough handling, and keep on going. If I had to pick a weak area, I'd say their cables are most likely to fail, but I've upgraded almost all of mine so it's not a concern (and they're easy to replace, anyway). I had one of the pins get stuck on an older pair a while back (all plastic body, can't remember which model), but I was able to extract it with tweezers and replaced the cable.


i guess having a detachable cable have it perk too. how much you spend on cable upgrade and what difference it make ?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

phikr1 said:


> i guess having a detachable cable have it perk too. how much you spend on cable upgrade and what difference it make ?



The benefits of an upgraded cable are in factors other than sound. The stock KZ has a weirdly low split and is prone to tangles, so upgrading to one that feels better and has a slider will be useful, also you may want one with a straight or 45-degree jack instead of the L-jack the KZ does. Don't fall into the trap of thinking some 16-core silver-platted oxidized braided cable will turn the ZSX into an Andromeda or something.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

baskingshark said:


> I own 4 KZs and my oldest KZs (ZS6 and original ZS10) have been used for 2 years and they are still going strong today. They even outlasted 2 of my MIDFI Westones, which cost way more. I know others in this forum had QC issues with their KZs, so sometimes it may be down to luck.
> 
> Ergonomics it depends on which model. The original ZS10 had a super huge shell and was difficult to fit. The ZS10 Pro is quite ergonomic fitting IMO. I read that the new ZSX is bigger than the ZS10 Pro, but I don't have it to confirm the fit and comfort. For my KZs, I use spinfit CP 100 eartips on them, and this improves the isolation and comfort. YMMV.



On the first topic, my ZS6 have been to hell and back with zero issues. I'm talking thrown into random boxes while I was moving, bottom of gym bags, you name it. They're tanks. 

I find the ZSX incredibly ergonomic but I know my ears have a much bigger space in them for the housing to rest. Like people talk about the housing being big but I've got plenty of room to spare with mine. Might throw the spinfits on them, or possibly spiral dots. All I know is they're now officially my favorite IEMs I've owned.


----------



## phikr1

SomeGuyDude said:


> The benefits of an upgraded cable are in factors other than sound. The stock KZ has a weirdly low split and is prone to tangles, so upgrading to one that feels better and has a slider will be useful, also you may want one with a straight or 45-degree jack instead of the L-jack the KZ does. Don't fall into the trap of thinking some 16-core silver-platted oxidized braided cable will turn the ZSX into an Andromeda or something.





Mouseman said:


> I think all of their recent gear that I have is built like a tank. I've had KZs for a couple of years now, and haven't had a single problem with them. They have survived some rough handling, and keep on going. If I had to pick a weak area, I'd say their cables are most likely to fail, but I've upgraded almost all of mine so it's not a concern (and they're easy to replace, anyway). I had one of the pins get stuck on an older pair a while back (all plastic body, can't remember which model), but I was able to extract it with tweezers and replaced the cable.



what model of KZ cable would you recommend me to upgrade to? preferably something cheap tho


----------



## SomeGuyDude

phikr1 said:


> what model of KZ cable would you recommend me to upgrade to? preferably something cheap tho



I'm a fan of the $20 **** cables. I've bought 'em in the past and they're sturdy, feel nice, look slick.


----------



## Mouseman

phikr1 said:


> i guess having a detachable cable have it perk too. how much you spend on cable upgrade and what difference it make ?


I'll second the vote for the **** cables, they were on sale on Ali lately for about $12. I also have some Kinboofi, they are equally nice. I think they make some difference in SQ, but it's subtle. The other big difference is that all the cables I've bought (since I have the gear to support it) is balanced -- I think that makes more of a difference than the cable itself. That, and the fact that they are a lot nicer of a build and a lot more comfortable than the stock ones. You can also find some without ear hooks if you want -- I actually like them as long as they don't have memory wire in them since I usually wear over-ear.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Sep 25, 2019)

Anyone know what diameter nozzle the ZSX has? Looking to pick up a set of Spinfits but it seems like they're a bit wider than my P1 and I don't want to choke the sound with narrow bores.


----------



## 1clearhead

DynamicEars said:


> Actually Im quite curious and almost sure that you're the owner of CCA since you're always praising CCA products everywhere. Tell me that CCA is acronym of Clearhead Company Audio


OK, you got me! ...Clear Cute Awesomeness!




I was born for this! ...Though, I wish it was my company! 

-Clear


----------



## emeraldstone

SomeGuyDude said:


> Anyone know what diameter nozzle the ZSX has? Looking to pick up a set of Spinfits but it seems like they're a bit wider than my P1 and I don't want to choke the sound with narrow bores.


They are ~6mm. @Keputs uses the CP155 on the ZSX.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

emeraldstone said:


> They are ~6mm. @Keputs uses the CP155 on the ZSX.



Awesome! Thank you. I put a pair of CP100 on and holy hell the sound turned into a woolly mess.


----------



## kailashrs

Came in today, boy these are amazing! The treble is the highlight, the sparkle and detail are amazing. The separation is great. The build quality is the best I've seen on a KZ, though I cannot say the same for the stock cable, got the **** 8 core cable to go with it and its perfect! Btw, would recommend getting the cable with the qdc angled connector since the normal one's plug doesn't sit flush...


----------



## Detectit (Sep 25, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Awesome! Thank you. I put a pair of CP100 on and holy hell the sound turned into a woolly mess.



So not a good combo for you? What's so special about these tips compared to original?

I always fit foam tips on my IEM's because the standard tips irritates (always hurts my right ear canal)

By the way I find the ZSX not fatiguing in the highs like some reviewers said.
"Dance Monkey" opened a new dimension in airiness with the KZX's nice...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Detectit said:


> So not a good combo for you? What's so special about these tips compared to original?
> 
> I ways put foam tips on my IEM's because the standard tips irritates (hurts my canal right ear)
> 
> Bt the way I find the ZSX not fatiguing in the highs like some reviewers said.



The CP100 is just too narrow is the thing. It's channeling the sound through a much smaller pipe than the stock tips, which causes the bass to boost and mask everything else. The stock tips are the right width so they're a lot more open, they're just not particularly comfy.


----------



## Seazer

SomeGuyDude said:


> The CP100 is just too narrow is the thing. It's channeling the sound through a much smaller pipe than the stock tips, which causes the bass to boost and mask everything else. The stock tips are the right width so they're a lot more open, they're just not particularly comfy.


That's kind of like how a compression driver works, increasing the sound pressure to achieve higher efficiency.

On the topic of upgrade cables, my favorite part of them is how supple they usually feel compared to stock, and that nice tangle free droop. Feels very luxurious


----------



## Slater

Seazer said:


> On the topic of upgrade cables, my favorite part of them is how supple they usually feel compared to stock, and that nice tangle free droop. Feels very luxurious



As some have pointed out, it’s like jewelry for your earphones


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> As some have pointed out, it’s like jewelry for your earphones



I never understood why people think it's bad that headphones can also be a fashion accessory. If you can make 'em look pretty and stylish, that's a great bonus.


----------



## mbwilson111

SomeGuyDude said:


> I never understood why people think it's bad that headphones can also be a fashion accessory. If you can make 'em look pretty and stylish, that's a great bonus.



Exactly.  

...and I don't ask for jewelry


----------



## masoknzn (Sep 25, 2019)

@Slater

Hey man
I know you have the Bluetooth cable and have done a mod on it

Have you done anything to shorten the cable by any chance?
It's so damn long, I used to have the jaybirds x3 and while they were horrible and disconnected all the time, I could shorten it to the point that they wouldn't hang at all, and be pretty tight to the back of my head

Also, do you know if there's a way to remove the memory wire?


Ps: I did all your mods on the shl 3300, turned out great pair of cans


----------



## emeraldstone (Sep 25, 2019)

Just received my ZSX and i'm hearing a slight hiss on both the earphones when playing at low volumes (on both stock and the gold-silver upgrade cable) (used a Macbook and a Note 5 to test sound) and I was just wondering if I may have connected the earphones incorrectly (R is on the Right earphone and the R is facing outwards):


Spoiler







In terms of in-phase and out-of phase testing using this test, does the out-of-phase sound test sound louder compared to in-phase for others?


Spoiler


----------



## voicemaster

Listening to this song on the ZSX is absolutely a bliss.


----------



## courierdriver

serveth said:


> I had ZS6, didn't have bass as nice as ZS10 Pro, a bit sharp sounds for high tones. I also tried FiiO FA1, it sounds nice but lacking warm bass like ZS10 Pro, drums were weak. I don't know how to describe, I can hear strings of guitar with bass and vibration but I didn't hear it with others. And it has very good instrument separation and quite wide.


Yeah, I do enjoy my ZS10 PRO with metal. Sabbath and Dio sound killer with this set. So does Iron Maiden and Tool. They are easy to EQ if you want to, and respond well to it. Personally, I don't feel the need to buy either the ZSX or CCA 12. At the moment, I'm drawn more to the Nicehck DB3, BLON 3 and the TRN V90. I'm looking to add different sound signatures to my iem profile, so I'm not really looking for more KZ stuff. Who knows though...I might be tempted on 11/11 to get a ZSX or CCA12 too.


----------



## Seazer

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I do enjoy my ZS10 PRO with metal. Sabbath and Dio sound killer with this set. So does Iron Maiden and Tool. They are easy to EQ if you want to, and respond well to it. Personally, I don't feel the need to buy either the ZSX or CCA 12. At the moment, I'm drawn more to the Nicehck DB3, BLON 3 and the TRN V90. I'm looking to add different sound signatures to my iem profile, so I'm not really looking for more KZ stuff. Who knows though...I might be tempted on 11/11 to get a ZSX or CCA12 too.


If you really love the ZS10 Pro, the CCA C12 sound extremely similar. The ZSX have a slightly different signature. The C12 sound like a ZS10 Pro with better separation and technicalities. The ZSX relaxes the upper mids a bit more, making for a more relaxing listen, but with great resolution   and separation.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Every review I've seen calls the ZSX basically a sidegrade to the ZS10 Pro.

That's my only beef with KZ. They have so many lines running in parallel that I feel like if they'd just focus on, say, two lines (hybrids vs all BAs) they'd be better off because you'd know what you're getting into.


----------



## baskingshark

emeraldstone said:


> Just received my ZSX and i'm hearing a slight hiss on both the earphones when playing at low volumes (on both stock and the gold-silver upgrade cable) (used a Macbook and a Note 5 to test sound) and I was just wondering if I may have connected the earphones incorrectly (R is on the Right earphone and the R is facing outwards):
> 
> 
> Spoiler



I don't have the KZ ZSX but I have a slight hiss on my ZS10 Pro on smartphone/desktop. Both have same impedance of 24 ohms and sensitivity 111 dB.
I asked in the sound science forum, and the short answer is that hissing is mostly due to sensitivity +/- very low impedance.

For my ZS10 Pro, the hiss is not apparent when music is playing, maybe only in a quiet part of songs when the volume is low (and in a quiet room).
I managed to fix the hiss by putting an in line volume controller, an impedance mismatch device or via jacking into amps.
TBH i get more hiss from the TFZ No. 3 (impedance 20 ohms and sensitivity 108 dB).


----------



## courierdriver

phikr1 said:


> since we are in KZ thread, id also like to ask about the build quality and ergonomic of KZ, since im gonna use it while commuting and also i want something that would last for 2-3 years


I bought my ZS10 PRO  in April, and use it 2-3 times per week outside. Just walking, grilling, or chilling out on my porch. Occasionally when I need to ride the bus somewhere. No problem with durability so far. Everything works. I keep them in a small, hard zippered case, when not in use. Note: I swapped the cable almost immediately after I got this set. I prefer a 2.5mm balanced connection, so I use an 8 core JCally cable with the balanced output from my Fiio Q1MK2 dac/amp. It's a nicer, better built cable than the stock one that KZ provides, and it also has a chin slider (if that's something that's important to you...it IS to me). That cable can also be bought in a 3.5mm unbalanced version, if you don't have a balanced source. They aren't too expensive and run about $12-15 on Aliexpress. The stock cable sounds OK, but the build is very cheap and will probably be the first thing to crap out. Other than the cable, the iems themselves are built decent enough to last for years. It all depends on how rough you treat them. Ymmv


----------



## Nailzs

Test your ZSX bass to make sure it's working properly.


----------



## emeraldstone

baskingshark said:


> I don't have the KZ ZSX but I have a slight hiss on my ZS10 Pro on smartphone/desktop. Both have same impedance of 24 ohms and sensitivity 111 dB.
> I asked in the sound science forum, and the short answer is that hissing is mostly due to sensitivity +/- very low impedance.
> 
> For my ZS10 Pro, the hiss is not apparent when music is playing, maybe only in a quiet part of songs when the volume is low (and in a quiet room).
> ...


Thanks for the reply! I managed to reduce most of the hiss on the desktop if I jack up the system volume and keep Spotify volume control low.


----------



## phikr1

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I do enjoy my ZS10 PRO with metal. Sabbath and Dio sound killer with this set. So does Iron Maiden and Tool. They are easy to EQ if you want to, and respond well to it. Personally, I don't feel the need to buy either the ZSX or CCA 12. At the moment, I'm drawn more to the Nicehck DB3, BLON 3 and the TRN V90. I'm looking to add different sound signatures to my iem profile, so I'm not really looking for more KZ stuff. Who knows though...I might be tempted on 11/11 to get a ZSX or CCA12 too.


i mostly listen to rock (prog, hard) and metal (death, melodic, -core, power), what do you suggest between the ZS10 Pro, ZSX, CCA C10, Nicehck DB3, BLON 3 ?


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> Every review I've seen calls the ZSX basically a sidegrade to the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> That's my only beef with KZ. They have so many lines running in parallel that I feel like if they'd just focus on, say, two lines (hybrids vs all BAs) they'd be better off because you'd know what you're getting into.



most of them say that the ZSX is the better product, but the improvements might not be worth it if already owning the ZS10 Pro. 
btw, you might want to try the ZSX with those TRN BT20s. it works nicely with my ZS10 Pro (and also with my other IEMs). you'd have a TWS with stable earhooks, not to mention looks great. as i surveyed some common non audio people (wife, kid, family members.. mostly on the survey ) they think that IEM with BT earhooks look is more "normal looking" than full TWS look


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 25, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Every review I've seen calls the ZSX basically a sidegrade to the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> That's my only beef with KZ. They have so many lines running in parallel that I feel like if they'd just focus on, say, two lines (hybrids vs all BAs) they'd be better off because you'd know what you're getting into.


I have C12 and ZS10 Pro, and to me C12 is a significant step forward: a bit faster bass, a bit more emphasis on sub-bass, and noticeably more refined treble - less V-shaped overall.
(A tentative consensus is that C12 is a bit more aggressively tuned than ZSX, and I would not have less.)
ZS10 Pro is edgy and engaging, I do appreciate these traits.


----------



## Seazer

chinmie said:


> most of them say that the ZSX is the better product, but the improvements might not be worth it if already owning the ZS10 Pro.
> btw, you might want to try the ZSX with those TRN BT20s. it works nicely with my ZS10 Pro (and also with my other IEMs). you'd have a TWS with stable earhooks, not to mention looks great. as i surveyed some common non audio people (wife, kid, family members.. mostly on the survey ) they think that IEM with BT earhooks look is more "normal looking" than full TWS look


Do you get a hiss with the bt20s? I heard that the bt20s has more of a hiss than the original bt20


----------



## voicemaster

Seazer said:


> Do you get a hiss with the bt20s? I heard that the bt20s has more of a hiss than the original bt20



The hiss only listenable when there is no music playing, with music playing, I can't hear the hiss at all. I don't know why you use an IEM if you are not listening to something tho.


----------



## voicemaster

SomeGuyDude said:


> Every review I've seen calls the ZSX basically a sidegrade to the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> That's my only beef with KZ. They have so many lines running in parallel that I feel like if they'd just focus on, say, two lines (hybrids vs all BAs) they'd be better off because you'd know what you're getting into.



The ZSX is a definite upgrade over the ZS10pro.


----------



## courierdriver

emeraldstone said:


> They are ~6mm. @Keputs uses the CP155 on the ZSX.


I'm  gonna chime in here and I'm afraid there might be some backlash from a few members. Everyone seems to hype silicon tips. Personally, I haven't found a set that works for me yet. I've got Spinfit CP145,  Spiraldots ( both of which cost me more than 2 decent balanced cables) plus all the stuff that came with any of the iems I own. From my experiences with silicones, all they do is make my ears itchy and sweaty and don't seal very well. Each set impacts the sound signature of the iem, and people are driving themselves crazy trying to get their iems to sound the way they want. I use FOAMS! Yes! FOAMS! In my case specifically: Newbee foams. Look  guys, I've tried Complys (way overpriced and expensive for what they offer in longevity and comfort), as well as Dekoni Bullets. Both are uncomfortable AF, and the Complys have this Waxguard filter on them ( which muddies/recesses the highs), and the Dekoni's aren't even a memory foam...it's just a regular, itchy, scratchy foam: that doesn't conform to anyone's ear. The Newbee foams are way different though. They are a soft memory foam, with a smooth outer layer, that is more like a silicone tip; yet behaves like a memory foam. They can be bought in various sets; like wide bore/narrow bore, or and a longer or shorter length ( like longer insertion or a rounder, shorter version). Price is much more affordable than Complys or aftermarket silicon tips. They are available on Amazon, Ebay, or Aliexpress. And they make all my iems sound great. Great bass, mids, and smooth, detailed highs. No sweatyness or discomfort. I listen to all my sets with these tips for 3-4 hours. After that length of time, it's time to go to bed...or do something else.


----------



## baskingshark

courierdriver said:


> I'm  gonna chime in here and I'm afraid there might be some backlash from a few members. Everyone seems to hype silicon tips. Personally, I haven't found a set that works for me yet. I've got Spinfit CP145,  Spiraldots ( both of which cost me more than 2 decent balanced cables) plus all the stuff that came with any of the iems I own. From my experiences with silicones, all they do is make my ears itchy and sweaty and don't seal very well. Each set impacts the sound signature of the iem, and people are driving themselves crazy trying to get their iems to sound the way they want. I use FOAMS! Yes! FOAMS! In my case specifically: Newbee foams. Look  guys, I've tried Complys (way overpriced and expensive for what they offer in longevity and comfort), as well as Dekoni Bullets. Both are uncomfortable AF, and the Complys have this Waxguard filter on them ( which muddies/recesses the highs), and the Dekoni's aren't even a memory foam...it's just a regular, itchy, scratchy foam: that doesn't conform to anyone's ear. The Newbee foams are way different though. They are a soft memory foam, with a smooth outer layer, that is more like a silicone tip; yet behaves like a memory foam. They can be bought in various sets; like wide bore/narrow bore, or and a longer or shorter length ( like longer insertion or a rounder, shorter version). Price is much more affordable than Complys or aftermarket silicon tips. They are available on Amazon, Ebay, or Aliexpress. And they make all my iems sound great. Great bass, mids, and smooth, detailed highs. No sweatyness or discomfort. I listen to all my sets with these tips for 3-4 hours. After that length of time, it's time to go to bed...or do something else.



How durable are the Newbee foams? Similar to a regular foam tip?
I didn't like the complys cause they were expensive and lasted max a few weeks before disintegrating or having tears. And they needed a bit of rolling before insertion.


----------



## chinmie

Seazer said:


> Do you get a hiss with the bt20s? I heard that the bt20s has more of a hiss than the original bt20



on the phone, to test the hiss is easy: with no music on, press the volume button to toggle (usually defaults to the phone's ringer volume when no media playing). you can hear the hiss briefly before it shuts off again. the hiss with the ZS10 Pro is really minimal that unless I'm in a really quiet place, it won't be noticable.

 the ZS10 Pro with the BT20S is surprisingly a pleasant combo. i don't own the ZSX, but i reckon it would perform similar to the ZS10 Pro.


----------



## courierdriver

phikr1 said:


> i mostly listen to rock (prog, hard) and metal (death, melodic, -core, power), what do you suggest between the ZS10 Pro, ZSX, CCA C10, Nicehck DB3, BLON 3 ?


Of all those you mentioned, I only have experience with the ZS10 PRO. DB3 and BLON 3 are in my Aliexpress cart, but I have not yet ordered either set yet.


----------



## Mouseman

baskingshark said:


> How durable are the Newbee foams? Similar to a regular foam tip?
> I didn't like the complys cause they were expensive and lasted max a few weeks before disintegrating or having tears. And they needed a bit of rolling before insertion.


I think they're more durable than Comply foams, but they don't last forever. You'll still have to roll them, then deal with the usual foam feeling in your ear, but I think they're a little smoother/softer. Still delicate, though.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> How durable are the Newbee foams? Similar to a regular foam tip?
> I didn't like the complys cause they were expensive and lasted max a few weeks before disintegrating or having tears. And they needed a bit of rolling before insertion.


I find the Newbee foams very durable. I still have the same set on my KanasPro since March of this year and that is the oldest set. I've bought 4 more 6-packs (S,M,L) and they all look as good as new. TIP: After listening to your iems for a session, use a soft cloth to wipe your tips down. It keeps them pliable and avoids cracking. Always keep them in a storage case and make sure you put a couple of silica packets in your case, to keep everything moisture free (especially if you live in a hot and humid climate).


----------



## bedlamite

Seazer said:


> Do you get a hiss with the bt20s? I heard that the bt20s has more of a hiss than the original bt20


I own both (BT20 alternating between ZS10 Pros and CCA C12s, BT20s connected to an iBasso IT03) and I can't say I've ever heard any kind of hiss outdoors. If I were listening to these with the music off, in an controlled environment, I'd probably pick up the hiss, but outdoors, with all that noise and with your music on? that really isn't an issue.


----------



## paulwasabii

SomeGuyDude said:


> Every review I've seen calls the ZSX basically a sidegrade to the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> That's my only beef with KZ. They have so many lines running in parallel that I feel like if they'd just focus on, say, two lines (hybrids vs all BAs) they'd be better off because you'd know what you're getting into.



I thought the same, every review outside of Head-Fi by people who do lots of reviews made it sound like a sidegrade.  The FR graphs are similar right?  Most of the people in this thread have been overwhelmingly positive, definite upgrade.  I love it, a definite upgrade over the zs10.  I think one difference is the guys here took more time with it, changed tips, changed cables, etc.  I also think the feedback here is usually quite honest, look up the as16.  If it was a minor difference, people would be saying that here as well.


----------



## courierdriver

Mouseman said:


> I think they're more durable than Comply foams, but they don't last forever. You'll still have to roll them, then deal with the usual foam feeling in your ear, but I think they're a little smoother/softer. Still delicate, though.


No, they won't last forever. Neither will silicones. Rolling them a bit to insert them deep isn't a problem for me. My oldest set have not broken down yet. They are MUCH more durable than the expensive Complys. Not sure what you mean by "the usual foam feeling", though. They fact that they are comfortable, not scratchy and last much longer are a huge departure from other foam tips. What is this "usual foam feeling" that you are referring to?


----------



## Seazer (Sep 25, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> I'm  gonna chime in here and I'm afraid there might be some backlash from a few members. Everyone seems to hype silicon tips. Personally, I haven't found a set that works for me yet. I've got Spinfit CP145,  Spiraldots ( both of which cost me more than 2 decent balanced cables) plus all the stuff that came with any of the iems I own. From my experiences with silicones, all they do is make my ears itchy and sweaty and don't seal very well. Each set impacts the sound signature of the iem, and people are driving themselves crazy trying to get their iems to sound the way they want. I use FOAMS! Yes! FOAMS! In my case specifically: Newbee foams. Look  guys, I've tried Complys (way overpriced and expensive for what they offer in longevity and comfort), as well as Dekoni Bullets. Both are uncomfortable AF, and the Complys have this Waxguard filter on them ( which muddies/recesses the highs), and the Dekoni's aren't even a memory foam...it's just a regular, itchy, scratchy foam: that doesn't conform to anyone's ear. The Newbee foams are way different though. They are a soft memory foam, with a smooth outer layer, that is more like a silicone tip; yet behaves like a memory foam. They can be bought in various sets; like wide bore/narrow bore, or and a longer or shorter length ( like longer insertion or a rounder, shorter version). Price is much more affordable than Complys or aftermarket silicon tips. They are available on Amazon, Ebay, or Aliexpress. And they make all my iems sound great. Great bass, mids, and smooth, detailed highs. No sweatyness or discomfort. I listen to all my sets with these tips for 3-4 hours. After that length of time, it's time to go to bed...or do something else.


I personally think NICEHCK foam tips are better than newbee, and i have both. (i prefer sony silicone for zsx, but i use the nicehck foams for the BLON 03). They feel sort of in between the newbee tips and Tin T2 stock tips

They are cheaper than the newbee tips and can be found here
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ny6p8VRE


----------



## emeraldstone

Seazer said:


> I personally think NICEHCK foam tips are better than newbee, and i have both. (i prefer sony silicone for zsx, but i use the nicehck foams for the BLON 03).
> 
> They are cheaper than the newbee tips and can be found here
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ny6p8VRE


I was looking at these earlier but in Canada (at least in my city) its $1.31 CAD a pair and the cheapest shipping is 6 bucks which sort of kills the deal.


----------



## voicemaster

Get the red color one if you can. It seems more durable than the black one for some reason. For newbee foam tips.


----------



## Seazer

emeraldstone said:


> I was looking at these earlier but in Canada (at least in my city) its $1.31 CAD a pair and the cheapest shipping is 6 bucks which sort of kills the deal.


For me it says $0.96 a pair and free shipping to the US. They might not have free shipping to other countries


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> I'm  gonna chime in here and I'm afraid there might be some backlash from a few members. Everyone seems to hype silicon tips. Personally, I haven't found a set that works for me yet. I've got Spinfit CP145,  Spiraldots ( both of which cost me more than 2 decent balanced cables) plus all the stuff that came with any of the iems I own. From my experiences with silicones, all they do is make my ears itchy and sweaty and don't seal very well. Each set impacts the sound signature of the iem, and people are driving themselves crazy trying to get their iems to sound the way they want. I use FOAMS! Yes! FOAMS! In my case specifically: Newbee foams. Look  guys, I've tried Complys (way overpriced and expensive for what they offer in longevity and comfort), as well as Dekoni Bullets. Both are uncomfortable AF, and the Complys have this Waxguard filter on them ( which muddies/recesses the highs), and the Dekoni's aren't even a memory foam...it's just a regular, itchy, scratchy foam: that doesn't conform to anyone's ear. The Newbee foams are way different though. They are a soft memory foam, with a smooth outer layer, that is more like a silicone tip; yet behaves like a memory foam. They can be bought in various sets; like wide bore/narrow bore, or and a longer or shorter length ( like longer insertion or a rounder, shorter version). Price is much more affordable than Complys or aftermarket silicon tips. They are available on Amazon, Ebay, or Aliexpress. And they make all my iems sound great. Great bass, mids, and smooth, detailed highs. No sweatyness or discomfort. I listen to all my sets with these tips for 3-4 hours. After that length of time, it's time to go to bed...or do something else.


My go to is New Bee/RIYO foams as well.  Another advantage is the color options. Because my ear holes are asymmetric, I like to use red tips, to identify the right side. Especially for IEMs that have an MMCX connection; where they (because of their ability to do a 360)   aren't as visually obvious, as to  which is L/R.

Stock silicone tips (to date) aren't big enough for my left ear; they consistently walk out of my ear canal.  I did pick up some XL silicone tips recently from Amazon; to see if they can help liven up the mids on my 2nd pair of TRN V60Pros. I'm about 24 hrs. away from comparing the V60Pros with foam vs. XL silicone.  But so far, I can say the XL tips don't do the walk.


----------



## nxnje

masoknzn said:


> @Slater
> 
> Hey man
> I know you have the Bluetooth cable and have done a mod on it
> ...



EHY EHY
I have a pair of SHL3300 as well and I need to know 
@Slater I need your monster mind ahahah


----------



## Mouseman

courierdriver said:


> No, they won't last forever. Neither will silicones. Rolling them a bit to insert them deep isn't a problem for me. My oldest set have not broken down yet. They are MUCH more durable than the expensive Complys. Not sure what you mean by "the usual foam feeling", though. They fact that they are comfortable, not scratchy and last much longer are a huge departure from other foam tips. What is this "usual foam feeling" that you are referring to?


I'm a person who likes silicone tips more than foam, but I have two units that need foams because if they aren't 100% sealed, they sound like junk. The "foam" feeling I referred to is that "stuffed" feeling that foams give me, I'm not a huge fan and find it uncomfortable for long periods of listening. But I know some people love foams, to each their own.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

baskingshark said:


> How durable are the Newbee foams? Similar to a regular foam tip?
> I didn't like the complys cause they were expensive and lasted max a few weeks before disintegrating or having tears. And they needed a bit of rolling before insertion.



The Bee foams are amazing. I've had them last for ages. Used them on the ZS6 to tame the treble spike. They make the ZSX sound too thick for my tastes but if you're looking for foam tips I 100% recommend the Bees.


----------



## KipNix

phikr1 said:


> i mostly listen to rock (prog, hard) and metal (death, melodic, -core, power), what do you suggest between the ZS10 Pro, ZSX, CCA C10, Nicehck DB3, BLON 3 ?


  From your list, I own the CCA C10 and can only speak for that model plus KZ AS06. Both bring out the mids, with guitar and mellotron on Genesis, Yes, 80s King Crimson and Tool. Sub-bass is great with Rutherford's bass pedals on Seconds Out, for one example. FLAC files only. 
  From what I'm  hearing, the ZSX (and I'll throw in C12, too) should be _exquisite.  _


----------



## Nimweth

KipNix said:


> From your list, I own the CCA C10 and can only speak for that model plus KZ AS06. Both bring out the mids, with guitar and mellotron on Genesis, Yes, 80s King Crimson and Tool. Sub-bass is great with Rutherford's bass pedals on Seconds Out, for one example. FLAC files only.
> From what I'm  hearing, the ZSX (and I'll throw in C12, too) should be _exquisite.  _


+1 for the ZSX, but BLON BL-03 is good too!


----------



## Keputs

SomeGuyDude said:


> Awesome! Thank you. I put a pair of CP100 on and holy hell the sound turned into a woolly mess.



Dunno why but these large spinfit cp155s fit my ears and KZs (ZSX, ZSN and ES4) perfectly. The length (11mm) penetrate deep enough and the wide base (13mm) plug the holes to add an additional layer of isolation. And, based on my hearing , SQ improved adding some more warmth which I prefer. Of course this is not an endorsement of the brand lol. Hope you find the best fit


 for your ears, Bud!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

KipNix said:


> From your list, I own the CCA C10 and can only speak for that model plus KZ AS06. Both bring out the mids, with guitar and mellotron on Genesis, Yes, 80s King Crimson and Tool. Sub-bass is great with Rutherford's bass pedals on Seconds Out, for one example. FLAC files only.
> From what I'm  hearing, the ZSX (and I'll throw in C12, too) should be _exquisite.  _



Extreme metal listener here. My primary genres are death/black/sludge and their respective subgenres. The ZSX (paired with a Dragonfly in my case) is absolutely godly for metal.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Keputs said:


> Dunno why but these large spinfit cp155s fit my ears and KZs (ZSX, ZSN and ES4) perfectly. The length (11mm) penetrate deep enough and the wide base (13mm) plug the holes to add an additional layer of isolation. And, based on my hearing , SQ improved adding some more warmth which I prefer. Of course this is not an endorsement of the brand lol. Hope you find the best fit



That would be because the CP155 have a much wider bore than the C100 haha. I'll try a set out soon. The C100 is way too narrow and strangles the sound.


----------



## 1clearhead

PhonoPhi said:


> I have C12 and ZS10 Pro, and to me C12 is a significant step forward: a bit faster bass, a bit more emphasis on sub-bass, and noticeably more refined treble - less V-shaped overall.
> (A tentative consensus is that C12 is a bit more aggressively tuned than ZSX, and I would not have less.)
> ZS10 Pro is edgy and engaging, I do appreciate these traits.


+1 I have both the ZSX and the C12 and a "step-up" definitely go's to the C12.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Get the red color one if you can. It seems more durable than the black one for some reason. For newbee foam tips.



That’s quite interesting! I wonder why that is?


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> That’s quite interesting! I wonder why that is?



Its a mystery for me too. The black one is more prone to tear in my experience. It is softer and the coating is more glossy than the red one. The red one looks more matte.


----------



## Slater (Sep 26, 2019)

masoknzn said:


> @Slater
> 
> Hey man
> I know you have the Bluetooth cable and have done a mod on it
> ...



I have not shortened the KZ Bluetooth cable, but it’s definitely possible. You would do it at the microphone/control pod. Just pop that open, desolder the cable where it connects to the circuit board, shorten it as much as you want, resolder the cable to the circuit board, and snap the control pod back together.

I did remove the memory wire from mine back when I still used the KZ Bluetooth cables. The procedure is exactly the same as the regular KZ upgrade cables:

https://www.audioreviews.org/removing-memory-wire/

I’m glad the SHL3300 mods turned out OK for you! It’s a great budget headphone, especially with a few simple mods


----------



## Slater (Sep 26, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I never understood why people think it's bad that headphones can also be a fashion accessory. If you can make 'em look pretty and stylish, that's a great bonus.



Don’t get me wrong; I don’t think it’s bad at all.

A good looking headphone is A-OK in my book, and I do a lot of cosmetic mods to my gear.

What’s not ideal is to have audio gear that *sounds* horrible (or doesn’t even make sound at all; see the last entry below). Yet it’s worn as a fashion statement *only*. After all, audio gear is, by definition, for audio.

That includes the designer gemstone-encrusted dollar store headphones:



The earphones with pearls stranded into the cable:



And face-palming atrocities such as this:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...we-have-questions_uk_5d80950ee4b03b5fc8890a67


----------



## HungryPanda

ZSX today, Queensryche, Rick Miller and Rishloo all sound utterly brilliant


----------



## gazzington

SomeGuyDude said:


> Extreme metal listener here. My primary genres are death/black/sludge and their respective subgenres. The ZSX (paired with a Dragonfly in my case) is absolutely godly for metal.


I'm an extreme metal listener too. Are these even good for black metal?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

gazzington said:


> I'm an extreme metal listener too. Are these even good for black metal?



Sure are. Spend the last few days listening to the likes of Coldworld, Mizmor, Mgla, Shining, Forgotten Tomb, Falls of Rauros, Misthyrming, Winterfylleth, all sounded gorgeous.


----------



## Mouseman

gazzington said:


> I'm an extreme metal listener too. Are these even good for black metal?


I'd say yes, although I don't know who exactly you're listening to. I listen to a lot of metal, although I usually stop short of death metal. I just pulled up some Death Angel, Rivers of Nihil and Anthrax -- it sounds amazing balanced from the R5 through the ZSXs. For example (not death metal but darn fast) -- at the the start of Painkiller by Judas Priest, you can hear every drum and cymbal hit with almost palpable force, and the bass drum riffs and tom runs are well separated. And I'd have to say that's not even that great of a source recording due to the era.


----------



## gazzington

SomeGuyDude said:


> Sure are. Spend the last few days listening to the likes of Coldworld, Mizmor, Mgla, Shining, Forgotten Tomb, Falls of Rauros, Misthyrming, Winterfylleth, all sounded gorgeous.


What dap and other iems do you use. Finally a metal head to ask!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

gazzington said:


> What dap and other iems do you use. Finally a metal head to ask!



My usual IEMs to now were the Mee P1 or the 1More Quad, through a Dragonfly Red at the desk or just out of my phone otherwise (I don't have a need for a dedicated DAP, if I'm at the gym or whatever I use Bluetooth). Full-size are either VModa M100s or my ol' HD650s with an Aune T1 MK2.

Right now the ZSX/Dragonfly combo is in 2nd place behind the Senn/Aune pairing. These things are the real deal. They are absolutely giant killers for a metalhead like me.

If you've got any fave bands/albums you'd like me to test out let me know. I've been on a big atmo/depressive black metal kick lately (currently listening to Unreqvited), but even my minor dabbling in death/doom went _exceptionally_ well.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## SomeGuyDude

HungryPanda said:


>




Pulled it up on Tidal. Crisp up top, bass guitar and kick drum have a lot of oomph. Guy's voice definitely shines. This isn't my usual style but I like this track a lot for that rhythm section.


----------



## HungryPanda

I really like this band, I just stumbled upon them


----------



## Seazer (Sep 26, 2019)

Initial impressions with the V90 vs the ZSX. Both sound amazing. I would say the V90 is the basshead IEM between the two. Bass is slightly more forward on the V90, but it doesnt bleed or anything. The treble steps back just slightly on the V90. Sounds smoother, but the treble on the ZSX brings further separation. The ZSX treble sounds slightly more articulate, hitting that almost ASMR level of crispness. The V90 treble is a good listen and more relaxing, but it doesnt hit the amazing levels of the ZSX. The ZSX sounds colder in a side by side though. The V90 sounds a bit fuller. The V90 might also have a more balanced and natural sound, treble doesnt quite hit the crispness of the ZSX though.
Bass: V90>ZSX
Treble: ZSX>V90
Im still trying to figure out which mids i think is superior. Soundstage goes to the ZSX. Its a hard pick between the two

Edit:I almost feel like the chamber of the V90 resonates a bit at 250hz, but it might just be louder
Edit2: I think its just more elevated there, not resonance


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Sep 26, 2019)

If there's more bass on the V90 I'm glad I went with the ZSX, these damn things have a seriously potent low end, at least as much as I could ask of them. With foams it's a ton of bass.


----------



## voicemaster

Seazer said:


> Initial impressions with the V90 vs the ZSX. Both sound amazing. I would say the V90 is the basshead IEM between the two. Bass is slightly more forward on the V90, but it doesnt bleed or anything. The treble steps back just slightly on the V90. Sounds smoother, but the treble on the ZSX brings further separation. The ZSX treble sounds slightly more articulate, hitting that almost ASMR level of crispness. The V90 treble is a good listen and more relaxing, but it doesnt hit the amazing levels of the ZSX. The ZSX sounds colder in a side by side though. The V90 sounds a bit fuller. The V90 might also have a more balanced and natural sound, treble doesnt quite hit the crispness of the ZSX though.
> Bass: V90>ZSX
> Treble: ZSX>V90
> Im still trying to figure out which mids i think is superior. Soundstage goes to the ZSX. Its a hard pick between the two
> ...



250hz resonant can muddy up the mid. I always turn down 250hz - 500hz when I mix for live sound.


----------



## Seazer (Sep 26, 2019)

I dont think its acutally resonating at that point, it might just be more raised there in comparison.
In the song (forever?????????) by Glass Beach at 0:56 the acoustic guitar resonates at about that frequency and it sounds a bit louder on the V90.
In the end i think my preference goes ZSX>V90>BLON 03
The slightly recessed treble leads to less separarion than the ZSX. It is still more separarion than the BLON 03 though. Its kind of a chilled out version of the ZSX, or a more articulate version of the BLON 03

After hearing the V90 I'm not sure i understand the hype for the BLON 03. Sure it sounds good for a single dynamic driver, but the V90 literally sounds the same but with more detail and separarion. I thought i was going to choose between the ZSX and V90 and keep the BLON 03 to have a good dynamic and hybrid to switch between, but after hearing them I think im going to return the BLON 03 and keep the ZSX and V90 to switch between


----------



## courierdriver

Mouseman said:


> I'm a person who likes silicone tips more than foam, but I have two units that need foams because if they aren't 100% sealed, they sound like junk. The "foam" feeling I referred to is that "stuffed" feeling that foams give me, I'm not a huge fan and find it uncomfortable for long periods of listening. But I know some people love foams, to each their own.


Ok...gotcha! That's one of the reasons I prefer foams...isolation from the outside world. Reminds me of full sized closed back headphones. While I can appreciate open back headphones for good imaging and bigger stage, I'm more often these days to appreciate good isolation more and the deeper bass benefits they provide.


----------



## courierdriver

emeraldstone said:


> I was looking at these earlier but in Canada (at least in my city) its $1.31 CAD a pair and the cheapest shipping is 6 bucks which sort of kills the deal.


Newbee foams can be had for between $6-9 CDN for a set of 6 pairs on Aliexpress or Ebay. Amazon has them also for about $12 for a 6 pack. I bought 2 sets on Aliexpress and 2 on Amazon...both with free shipping and tracking.


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> Its a mystery for me too. The black one is more prone to tear in my experience. It is softer and the coating is more glossy than the red one. The red one looks more matte.


Very interesting. I only own the red ones and have never chosen the black option. Not sure why...I guess it's because all of the other foams I have are black and I like how the reds look different. Never thought that there might be a difference in quality or feel between the two. Thanks for your input here. It's stuff like this, that the product pictures and other verbal info on Ali or Amazon, DON'T tell you. LOL!


----------



## Seazer (Sep 26, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Very interesting. I only own the red ones and have never chosen the black option. Not sure why...I guess it's because all of the other foams I have are black and I like how the reds look different. Never thought that there might be a difference in quality or feel between the two. Thanks for your input here. It's stuff like this, that the product pictures and other verbal info on Ali or Amazon, DON'T tell you. LOL!


If touve ever felt thr tin t2 memory foams, they are sticky and slow to expand. The newbee are not sticky and have a medium expansion rate. The newbees have slightly stiffer texture. The Nicehck have about the same expansion rate as the newbee, but are less stiff feeling and have a slight stickyness (less sticky than the T2 though). The stickyness helps keep a seal a bit better for me than the newbee. Meanwhile one of my tin t2 tips literally came apart from the rubber tube after taking them on and off too much lol


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> Initial impressions with the V90 vs the ZSX. Both sound amazing. I would say the V90 is the basshead IEM between the two. Bass is slightly more forward on the V90, but it doesnt bleed or anything. The treble steps back just slightly on the V90. Sounds smoother, but the treble on the ZSX brings further separation. The ZSX treble sounds slightly more articulate, hitting that almost ASMR level of crispness. The V90 treble is a good listen and more relaxing, but it doesnt hit the amazing levels of the ZSX. The ZSX sounds colder in a side by side though. The V90 sounds a bit fuller. The V90 might also have a more balanced and natural sound, treble doesnt quite hit the crispness of the ZSX though.
> Bass: V90>ZSX
> Treble: ZSX>V90
> Im still trying to figure out which mids i think is superior. Soundstage goes to the ZSX. Its a hard pick between the two
> ...




I got brief listen and AB ing the ZSX and V90 yesterday. Same as you, im sure these two on same level, I cant pick one if i only have to choose 1 of them. Both are amazing
Using same cable, same spiral dots eartips (which are i found the best for the two), same source.

Fit = both no problem with me, even bigger zsx made a good grip with my ears, but smaller V90 also get me instant fit and maybe better bet for most people.

Build = V90 because metal body that built like a tank, ZSX made by high quality plastic / resin with metal shell. Look wise you can choose by yourself.

Cable = default cable TRN one slightly better.

Comfort = V90, not by big margin though

isolation = V90, that big vent holes on shell plate just a gimmick, even if that thing is real, must be very tiny holes inside, i was hoping a semi open back one.

Bass = V90 definitely bigger on tuning, more to basshead level, ZSX lower in quantity that feels more balance in overall signature. Texture are good on both, maybe v90 just a hair thin better in texture. but quantity wise i prefer on ZSX level. Bottom end extension are great with the two, both are not rolled off too fast, on bass decay V90 have more slightly faster decay speed. Both have no mid bass bleed at all, just touch of warm and thickness, without sound muddy at all.

Mids = ZSX have more forwarded mids, but V90 perceives a clearer mids. Mids on V90 are more open, ZSX sounds a bit veiled on vocals, again not by much margin. lower mids on both have good thickness that not overly done. High mids on V90 are more emphasized than ZSX, made overall signature more dynamic, but on the other side can be shouty if you are sensitive on high mids, shouty female vocals on 3 khz, safe enough, but can be intense on high volumes, while ZSX more flatter, but for some people maybe sounds duller than V90.

Highs = V90 have crisp trebles, very crispy but not fatiguing, made the overal signature fun at first time you listening to them. They have smoother presentation yet very crispy and detailed. I like the trebles on V90 more than ZSX. ZSX trebles are more safe but trebleheads will want more engaging trebles. Both are safe from sibilance. 

Overall signature = what differentiate one from another is = V90 more V shaped tuning, ZSX more balanced tuning. V90 more fun and engaging with bigger bass, ZSX more balanced and have forwarded mids

Detail retrieval = on ZSX micro details are more easily heard than V90, because of the more balanced tuning also.

Instrument separation =  I have to give to ZSX because i heard more air in between instrument, quite good for this price range but V90 are not left behind.

Soundstage = They are both wide, but if i have to answer which one is wider, I will answer "maybe ZSX", again in very tiny gap between them.

Timbre = v90 is more natural to my ears, but remember ZSX isnt as steely as previous KZ. Just because of the timbre only, i would call its a big upgrade. they are closer to natural, but still below V90, again not by much.

They retail at almost same price also. So you cant go wrong with these 2, just about preferences. For me myself with my pop-jazz, pop, jass, classic, vocals, rock, blues, acoustics, I still cant decide clearly which one i would take to be frank. They have pros and cons but with only small margin. For tuning wise i would prefer ZSX, but i will miss that nice trebles on V90, and clearness of the mids. But if I take V90, i will keep thinking, errrghhh i wish the separation is like on ZSX and the bass is too overwhelming for me. That is the case if im allowed to be picky person. But at this price, if i grab randomly any of them, Ill be happy enough to listen without fear of damage or lost for daily use.

Now about BLON BL-03 that I received in between my ZSX and V90, I love the tuning more. The tuning the smoothness isnt from budget level. Its a tuning similar from what I've heard in TOTL level. crazy in this price. resolution and clearness also very very great, trump both ZSX and V90. Overall more dynamic, clear, with very natural timbre. On separation though, BLON lost to both ZSX and V90, multi driver iems have their advantage in this section. But as you can read in many reviews, blon fit are infamous, sh**ty pieces. That is the main cons of BLON.


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> I got brief listen and AB ing the ZSX and V90 yesterday. Same as you, im sure these two on same level, I cant pick one if i only have to choose 1 of them. Both are amazing
> Using same cable, same spiral dots eartips (which are i found the best for the two), same source.
> 
> Fit = both no problem with me, even bigger zsx made a good grip with my ears, but smaller V90 also get me instant fit and maybe better bet for most people.
> ...



Nice impressions!

How do u compare the BLON BL-03 to your moondrop Kanas pro and TFZ No. 3?


----------



## courierdriver

HungryPanda said:


> ZSX today, Queensryche, Rick Miller and Rishloo all sound utterly brilliant


Yeah, baby! Queensryche! The Warning album was my favorite. No Sanctuary and Take Hold of the Flame are my favorite songs. OMG! Geoff Tate had one of the best metal voices back in the day. Panda, thanks for mentioning this band. Oh, and you also mentioned Tool recently which led my to download the entire Fear Innoculum album. Love it! It totally gets my psyched when members like yourself mention artists and tracks/songs they listen to with their new gear. Makes me wanna get more music...which is what it's all about, right?


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> Nice impressions!
> 
> How do u compare the BLON BL-03 to your moondrop Kanas pro and TFZ No. 3?



Actually I dont want to write up too honest if i can, but thats not me. Because it will be hard times to sell KP and No 3 later 

BLONs are crazy with their price. The first thing you have to do is get perfect seal. Its harder than spend your money for them. But never give up.
Once you got the seal, welcome to another crazy world, where a $30 iems sounds like $200-300 great iem (not refer to $200-300 overpriced sets).
Sub bass on KP level, with better speed and accuracy. More texture on bass compared to KP, fast enough like the no 3. But tuning wise i prefer blon from the 3 iems, bass level a bit bigger, (perfect one for me will lowe a bit), that give enough kicks from mid bass just by a slight north of neutral, giving thickness to lower mids and full body, while KP is a bit too thin and not complete with lacks of mid bass. On the other side no 3 mid bass is too big for me.
Mids as clear as KP and No 3, with same resolution if not better, but i feel more dynamic on BLON. High mids level that in between KP and no 3, which is good thing for me, giving engaging and fun listen feeling without being shouty. Trebles are crisp, very very crisp without being sibilance and fatiguing. Baby Oxygen is a good name for them or I called them baby xelento, really remind me to the xelento.
Soundstage better on BLON, as wide as KP, but with better imaging, and definitely better and wider than average no 3.

Direct comparison to your no 3 = wider soundstage, better imaging, clearer mids, a slightly better resolution, better high extension, more balanced signature (i dont know if this thing a good or bad thing to you since you have inner basshead soul), much much worseeeee fit. Yours will be coming shortly right? id like to hear impressions from you, as I feel you have of very objective impressions from the start buddy.


----------



## Seazer

baskingshark said:


> Nice impressions!
> 
> How do u compare the BLON BL-03 to your moondrop Kanas pro and TFZ No. 3?


I have the tfz no 3 and I vastly prefer the blon 03. The no 3 has more bass but it is also one of the only iems i have that sound legitimately sibilant. The no 3 is actually painful to listen to on S sounds and cymbals. The 8k is next level ridiculous


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## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> Actually I dont want to write up too honest if i can, but thats not me. Because it will be hard times to sell KP and No 3 later
> 
> BLONs are crazy with their price. The first thing you have to do is get perfect seal. Its harder than spend your money for them. But never give up.
> Once you got the seal, welcome to another crazy world, where a $30 iems sounds like $200-300 great iem (not refer to $200-300 overpriced sets).
> ...





Seazer said:


> I have the tfz no 3 and I vastly prefer the blon 03. The no 3 has more bass but it is also one of the only iems i have that sound legitimately sibilant. The no 3 is actually painful to listen to on S sounds and cymbals. The 8k is next level ridiculous



Thanks for the comparisons friends. I actually compared my recently bought Semkarch SKC CNT1 and it is almost equal in sound quality to the TFZ No. 3 for like 1/3 of the price (maybe TFZ NO. 3 has more bass quantity and quality and bigger soundstage).
I also think there is a bit of a 8khz spike on it, a bit painful to listen to trumpets and horns for my bigband music.
I actually wouldn't have bought the TFZ No. 3 if I had gotten the Semkarch earlier. Now i'm looking forward to the BLON based on you guys' recs. Will probably sell the TFZ No. 3 soon =(


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## DynamicEars (Sep 27, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for the comparisons friends. I actually compared my recently bought Semkarch SKC CNT1 and it is almost equal in sound quality to the TFZ No. 3 for like 1/3 of the price (maybe TFZ NO. 3 has more bass quantity and quality and bigger soundstage).
> I also think there is a bit of a 8khz spike on it, a bit painful to listen to trumpets and horns for my bigband music.
> I actually wouldn't have bought the TFZ No. 3 if I had gotten the Semkarch earlier. Now i'm looking forward to the BLON based on you guys' recs. Will probably sell the TFZ No. 3 soon =(



Few people wrote up that BL03 is better than CNT1, even BGGAR also bring 5 hot chifi, he stated that BL03 is no 1, and he cant judge the rest (including guideray and v90 and CNT1) but the BL03 is his no 1. I dont have CNT1 myself so i cant compare, but you can roughly guessing by comparison with our no 3. Seriously I pick BL03 than KP or no 3, even if they were sold higher than both.
Tuning wise, i also still prefer BLON than my Sony EX1000, but ex1000 still more mature iem on texture, resolution, smoothness, but seriously differences isnt night and day


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## Seazer (Sep 27, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> I got brief listen and AB ing the ZSX and V90 yesterday. Same as you, im sure these two on same level, I cant pick one if i only have to choose 1 of them. Both are amazing
> Using same cable, same spiral dots eartips (which are i found the best for the two), same source.
> 
> Fit = both no problem with me, even bigger zsx made a good grip with my ears, but smaller V90 also get me instant fit and maybe better bet for most people.
> ...


Funny how we all hear stuff differently  I think the BLON has very very good tuning, but I also think it is the least resolving of the 3. I prefer the v90 over them. Also interesting that you think thethe v90 treble is better than ZSX. I think the v90 treble is  smoother, more relaxing, and more forgiving to poor recordings and lower bitrates (spotify and youtube). I think the ZSX treble is crisper, airier, and has better texture though, but it is less forgiving on poor recordings and lower bitrates (but sounds superior with good recordings and FLAC)

Edit: wow the v90 really open up with a good amp. I was using an es100 earlier and just switched to the thx 789 and the sub bass dug even deeper

Edit 2: man i really cant pick between the 3, i might just keep them all. You really cant go wrong with any of them

They each sound better in certain situations. I was playing Sweden from the Minecraft soundtrack and the BLON piano sounded the most realistic of the 3, followed by the V90 and lastly the ZSX. 
However playing Reflektor by Arcade Fire, the microdetails and separation from the ZSX sounded best, while the BLON came in second, and the V90 sounded ever so slightly edgy in the upper mids.


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## DynamicEars (Sep 27, 2019)

Seazer said:


> Funny how we all hear stuff differently  I think the BLON has very very good tuning, but I also think it is the least resolving of the 3. I prefer the v90 over them. Also interesting that you think thethe v90 treble is better than ZSX. I think the v90 treble is  smoother, more relaxing, and more forgiving to poor recordings and lower bitrates (spotify and youtube). I think the ZSX treble is crisper, airier, and has better texture though, but it is less forgiving on poor recordings and lower bitrates (but sounds superior with good recordings and FLAC)
> 
> Edit: wow the v90 really open up with a good amp. I was using an es100 earlier and just switched to the thx 789 and the sub bass dug even deeper
> 
> Edit 2: man i really cant pick between the 3, i might just keep them all. You really cant go wrong with any of them




Yes, i just wrote up What I've heard, but we can hears differently, even if we are using same source, same cable, same tips, we still can hear differently, and preference is really subjective. THe BLon for me is very resolving for a DD, but separation definitely lost to ZSX and V90, About V90 trebles, i agree and i mentioned that they are crisp but smooth, and have better tonality while ZSX trebles are full, complex, extension below V90, more flatter without peak and dip, but full overall. Its personal, but i prefer trebles of V90. Again everything is just by more or less, very small margin between them, like i said, really cant be wrong with any of them, deeply agree.

*Edit : ooh, i know maybe i like to hear BLON on higher volume because like there is no dominating certain frequencies, while the rest can be painfull first on high mids or fatiguing bass or trebles. With that, you "hear" more. try to blast up volume on BL03 dude


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## courierdriver

DynamicEars said:


> Actually I dont want to write up too honest if i can, but thats not me. Because it will be hard times to sell KP and No 3 later
> 
> BLONs are crazy with their price. The first thing you have to do is get perfect seal. Its harder than spend your money for them. But never give up.
> Once you got the seal, welcome to another crazy world, where a $30 iems sounds like $200-300 great iem (not refer to $200-300 overpriced sets).
> ...


Nice comparison! Thanks! I'm with you...don't think I'll ever sell my KPE, but I probably could find myself letting go of the No.3. I'm finding the opposite of what others are saying about that set, though. Even with cable and tip swaps, I'm still not as in love with the TFZ NO.3. I still don't think they are as good overall as KPE. Yes, they have deep, solid, impactful bass. But I don't think their detail presentation in mids and highs is as good. The No.3 still sounds kinda dark, recessed and less detailed than any of the other sets I own, including ZS10 PRO. Great for dance music and helps with older 80's/90's metal to give a bit more warmth to the sound; but still lacks the detail resolution of the KPE, NX7, or ZS10 PRO, even though I can see why some folks find these 3 sets to be a bit thin sounding in the mids and "metallic" in the treble. The good news is; if you don't mind EQ'ing a bit; they all respond well to it a bit. Even the No.3, which I usually up the mids to +2-3.5 db, and treble up the same. It gives the No.3 a bit more liveliness to it. Still, of the 4 I currently own, they would be the first I'd give up. Honestly, I can achieve the same qualities in the bass, with a more detailed and open soundstage, with my other iems. I like the No.3...don't get me wrong, it's not bad at all...but there are others that do better within the price range or less, for less $.


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## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Yes, i just wrote up What I've heard, but we can hears differently, even if we are using same source, same cable, same tips, we still can hear differently, and preference is really subjective. THe BLon for me is very resolving for a DD, but separation definitely lost to ZSX and V90, About V90 trebles, i agree and i mentioned that they are crisp but smooth, and have better tonality while ZSX trebles are full, complex, extension below V90, more flatter without peak and dip, but full overall. Its personal, but i prefer trebles of V90. Again everything is just by more or less, very small margin between them, like i said, really cant be wrong with any of them, deeply agree.
> 
> *Edit : ooh, i know maybe i like to hear BLON on higher volume because like there is no dominating certain frequencies, while the rest can be painfull first on high mids or fatiguing bass or trebles. With that, you "hear" more. try to blast up volume on BL03 dude



Yes BLON is harder to drive than the ZSX. With my BT20s, I need to go to 84-90% with BLON, while with ZSX, 80% is plenty loud.


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## archdawg

DynamicEars said:


> Actually I dont want to write up too honest if i can, but thats not me. Because it will be hard times to sell KP and No 3 later
> 
> BLONs are crazy with their price. The first thing you have to do is get perfect seal. Its harder than spend your money for them. But never give up.
> Once you got the seal, welcome to another crazy world, where a $30 iems sounds like $200-300 great iem (not refer to $200-300 overpriced sets).
> ...



Thanks for the comparisons, buddy. I can't get mine out of my ears since I got them the other day - these Blons are CRAZY good on my E1DA 9038S; I'd be almost as happy if I had paid 200€ for them, no joke. Last night I listened to some acoustic jazz recordings and the instruments had a visceral quality to them, hard to describe, but I was able to reproduce this experience over and over again - pretty amazing. Now I'd like someone to compare them to the mothership; besides ... IF the Blons really sport the same drivers it would be interesting to know what they did differently on the Oxygens.



baskingshark said:


> Now i'm looking forward to the BLON based on you guys' recs. Will probably sell the TFZ No. 3 soon =(


Looking forward to your comparisons against the 9T even though I'll probably spend my money somewhere else. Maybe the IMR Aten but who knows what will happen next in these crazy times?


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## Seazer

The more I listen to them the more I love all 3. I think the BLON is the best for gaming, the ZSX is my personal favorite for music, and the V90 is the jack of all trades and bass kings


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## AtrafCreez

aspire5550 said:


> At this point in time, I'm just gona wait for KZ ZS15 to make sure i get a KZ which is more matured and better tuned.


  I bought KZ BA 10 from China. Am saving up for better IEM's but heard that they were very good for the cheap price being Chinese.After I paid for them I found many reports that they are very uncomfortable on the ears. ONE great thing about being over age 12 is that your ears and nose continue to grow. Which makes 67 year old Geezers like myself wonder you is looking back at me in the mirror... so, by me I cannot feel even a minute sense of discomfort in ears. I've only heard them once , they are far from being burnt in. Lets hope the tinny treble goes away, but the bass is nice and not overdone!


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## SomeGuyDude

Jamming the latest Opeth album with the ZSX and it's glorious.


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## Barusu Lamperouge

@All Members how do you compare your budget-fi gear with the TOTL+ Mid-fi gear? Is it really worth to pay over $100 for an IEM? I'm asking this because in my country $100 is considered to be borderline premium and I am really restricted on a budget but always curious about TOTL sound that all reviewers mention in their reviews. Since this is a budget-fi thread, I'd like to have an opportunity to seek everyone's esteemed opinion which might be helpful to others like me.


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## HungryPanda

Dani157 said:


> @All Members how do you compare your budget-fi gear with the TOTL+ Mid-fi gear? Is it really worth to pay over $100 for an IEM? I'm asking this because in my country $100 is considered to be borderline premium and I am really restricted on a budget but always curious about TOTL sound that all reviewers mention in their reviews. Since this is a budget-fi thread, I'd like to have an opportunity to seek everyone's esteemed opinion which might be helpful to others like me.


most certainly my very first iem was the Unique Melody Miracle then down the rabbit hole I went. I now have a huge list of some very loved earphones and some absolute garbage in storage. Right now budget gear used is KZ ZSX, TRN V90, NiceHCK NX7. Mid-Fi BGVP DMS, Rythmos SD7, Toneking TK2


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## baskingshark (Sep 27, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> @All Members how do you compare your budget-fi gear with the TOTL+ Mid-fi gear? Is it really worth to pay over $100 for an IEM? I'm asking this because in my country $100 is considered to be borderline premium and I am really restricted on a budget but always curious about TOTL sound that all reviewers mention in their reviews. Since this is a budget-fi thread, I'd like to have an opportunity to seek everyone's esteemed opinion which might be helpful to others like me.



I haven't heard or owned any IEMs > $1000 USD so take what I say with a pinch of salt. My experiences come from owning a few midfi pieces the past 15 years (mostly multi driver westones and the Audiosense T800 and a few single driver DDs) and I compare my CHIFI budget stuff with them. Price does not always correlate with audio quality, and of course music is subjective for everyone, so what may be nice for someone does not apply to everyone.

Honestly, the past 2 - 3 years, the CHIFI releases are as good or just slightly less good as most of my multi driver westones. So much so I have stopped patronizing most western brands since then. My very very first IEM was the westone UM1 and it was a single driver IEM that cost me $150 USD. I was a student then and had to scrimp and save for months just to buy the cheapest entry level IEM that was available then. In terms of sound quality, the westone UM1 won't hold a candle to most of the sub 30 buck CHIFI IEMs today IMHO.

If I can give an example which I quoted before, the KZ ZS10 Pro can subjectively give 80% of details, clarity, instrument separation as the westone W30. But the W30 costs 10x more than the ZS10 Pro. Whether u wanna pursue the 20% marginal improvement for a diminishing return with respect to costs is really subjective. But I had purchased my W30 before I got the ZS10 Pro and I wouldn't have bought the W30 if I had heard the ZS10 Pro beforehand for sure. And the latest reviewers have said the CCA C12, KZ ZSX and TRN V90 are better than the ZS10 Pro, so that is pretty amazing for the price. There was no such thing as a well tuned multi BA/hybrid IEM costing < 50 bucks 3 years ago, so we are really blessed to get relatively good quality stuff at non exorbitant prices nowadays.

Regardless, I think we should all have our own sweet spot for price to performance ratio and stick to it, as the higher up u go, the law of diminish returns kicks in for marginal improvements.


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## mbwilson111

HungryPanda said:


> and some absolute garbage in storage



I want to know which ones these are.


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## SomeGuyDude




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## gazzington

HungryPanda said:


> most certainly my very first iem was the Unique Melody Miracle then down the rabbit hole I went. I now have a huge list of some very loved earphones and some absolute garbage in storage. Right now budget gear used is KZ ZSX, TRN V90, NiceHCK NX7. Mid-Fi BGVP DMS, Rythmos SD7, Toneking TK2


What have been your best purchases?


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## SomeGuyDude

Dani157 said:


> @All Members how do you compare your budget-fi gear with the TOTL+ Mid-fi gear? Is it really worth to pay over $100 for an IEM? I'm asking this because in my country $100 is considered to be borderline premium and I am really restricted on a budget but always curious about TOTL sound that all reviewers mention in their reviews. Since this is a budget-fi thread, I'd like to have an opportunity to seek everyone's esteemed opinion which might be helpful to others like me.



I have the ZSX right now as well as the Mee P1 and 1More Quad, which are usually heralded as the $200 and under kings. I am 100% listening to the ZSX over either of them. It's more dynamic and engaging than the P1 and more detailed and airy than the Quad. My Periodic Be got stolen but the ZSX has me with very little incentive to replace them. I've been up and down the list as well, with the Shure se846/535, even took the Audeze iSine 10 and 20 for a trial run, not to mention my Bluetooth stuff.

ZSX + Dragonfly = my favorite portable setup so far. I'd use it at home at my big desk but I have an HD650/T1 combo that reigns supreme there.


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## gazzington

SomeGuyDude said:


> I have the ZSX right now as well as the Mee P1 and 1More Quad, which are usually heralded as the $200 and under kings. I am 100% listening to the ZSX over either of them. It's more dynamic and engaging than the P1 and more detailed and airy than the Quad. My Periodic Be got stolen but the ZSX has me with very little incentive to replace them. I've been up and down the list as well, with the Shure se846/535, even took the Audeze iSine 10 and 20 for a trial run, not to mention my Bluetooth stuff.
> 
> ZSX + Dragonfly = my favorite portable setup so far. I'd use it at home at my big desk but I have an HD650/T1 combo that reigns supreme there.


I think you've sold me the zsx!


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## gazzington

I was considering getting a periodic be but maybe I don't need to


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## chinmie

Dani157 said:


> @All Members how do you compare your budget-fi gear with the TOTL+ Mid-fi gear? Is it really worth to pay over $100 for an IEM? I'm asking this because in my country $100 is considered to be borderline premium and I am really restricted on a budget but always curious about TOTL sound that all reviewers mention in their reviews. Since this is a budget-fi thread, I'd like to have an opportunity to seek everyone's esteemed opinion which might be helpful to others like me.



worth it or not, it really depends on the person. 
the first time i joined headfi, i want to purchase some iems and earbuds for everyday purposes, aside from my recording/mixing monitors. at that time i was pretty happy with some KZ ATR and Edifier H185 that i was set not to go past the $10 threshold. 

time passes.. tried many earphones/headphones up to $2k, now i currently settled for some set of gears that suits me (see my profile for current and past collections) 

different price brackets would have different level of SQ. 

great SQ don't mean much if you don't like the signature. 

there's bound to be some outliers of cheaper gears that can match or even beat more expensive gears, especially cheaper new gears vs older gears.

but the general trend is level of price of gears from the similar release year would reflect directly to the difference of SQ, build quality, and accessories.


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## Barusu Lamperouge

Wow! This is really enlightening. Because one thing I've learnt from this is that price doesn't equal to guaranteed best performance. It's all dependent on the personal tastes. This might be helpful to many budding audiophiles from my country who really have a tight wallet. Thanks everyone for chiming in with your opinions.


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## SomeGuyDude (Sep 27, 2019)

gazzington said:


> I was considering getting a periodic be but maybe I don't need to



Don't get me wrong, the Be is probably my favorite IEM to date (from memory, it's been a while since I lost them), but even with the Be I had an "adjustment period" of sorts before I fully appreciated it. The ZSX was love at first listen, and I say with no hyperbole that I haven't had a moment like that since I tried out the Audeze LCD-X for the first time.

Now, _obviously_, the ZSX isn't in the same solar system as something like an Audeze, but it gave me that same moment of "ohhhhhh I love these" that I don't often get with headphones. I really do think if their tuning fits your tastes that the ZSX might quell any desire for upgrades.



Dani157 said:


> Wow! This is really enlightening. Because one thing I've learnt from this is that price doesn't equal to guaranteed best performance. It's all dependent on the personal tastes. This might be helpful to many budding audiophiles from my country who really have a tight wallet. Thanks everyone for chiming in with your opinions.



And this is spot on. I've heard really expensive gear that I just plain wasn't a fan of. HiFiMan's top offerings, Stax, a bunch of other IEMs. Yeah they had all the "technical" prowess, but I'm not buying headphones for measurements and to be impressed with the tech, I'm buying them to make me love my music and that's what the ZSX do better than most of what I've owned over the years.


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## Evoke

Dani157 said:


> @All Members how do you compare your budget-fi gear with the TOTL+ Mid-fi gear? Is it really worth to pay over $100 for an IEM? I'm asking this because in my country $100 is considered to be borderline premium and I am really restricted on a budget but always curious about TOTL sound that all reviewers mention in their reviews. Since this is a budget-fi thread, I'd like to have an opportunity to seek everyone's esteemed opinion which might be helpful to others like me.


I will be honest and say almost none of the budget iems can compete with the top of the line stuff in anyway possible. Even comparing a VX and a KPE, there is a huge difference between them in terms of details, resolution and treble. However, you can use budget iems to find your preferred your signature and move up to totl with that preferred sound signature. You won't enjoy some totl iems if it wasn't to your preferred signature


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## SomeGuyDude

Evoke said:


> I will be honest and say almost none of the budget iems can compete with the top of the line stuff in anyway possible. Even comparing a VX and a KPE, there is a huge difference between them in terms of details, resolution and treble. However, you can use budget iems to find your preferred your signature and move up to totl with that preferred sound signature. You won't enjoy some totl iems if it wasn't to your preferred signature



Depends on what you mean by "top of the line" and "compete". Diminishing returns do happen and while I don't think anyone here is saying a KZ is going to legitimately beat an Andromeda, the Chi-Fi market is definitely getting to a point where the desire to spend 10x more for a 10% increase sorta vanishes. They absolutely "compete" in the sense that they offer so much for such a low price point that unless someone really wants "best on the market" my first recommendation is becoming to look into the Chi-Fi products before worrying about any of the big names.


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## gazzington

That's the thing, I doubt these are as good as £2000 iems but even if you get 80% there for less than a £100 it's surely a no brainer


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## SomeGuyDude

gazzington said:


> That's the thing, I doubt these are as good as £2000 iems but even if you get 80% there for less than a £100 it's surely a no brainer



Bingo. And honestly depending on your tastes I have no doubts that these would sound 'better' to you than a number of TOTL products, even if their technicalities aren't in the same ballpark.


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## gazzington

SomeGuyDude said:


> Bingo. And honestly depending on your tastes I have no doubts that these would sound 'better' to you than a number of TOTL products, even if their technicalities aren't in the same ballpark.


I agree. For example I know that a like deep bass but also clear highs so that I get that sparkly sound.


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## Seazer

GUYS
I just realized something about the strange engrish on the BLON box

BELIEF
LETMUSICBURN
OPPOTY
NEVERGIVEUP

aka

B
L
O
N


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## SoundChoice

Dani157 said:


> @All Members how do you compare your budget-fi gear with the TOTL+ Mid-fi gear? Is it really worth to pay over $100 for an IEM? I'm asking this because in my country $100 is considered to be borderline premium and I am really restricted on a budget but always curious about TOTL sound that all reviewers mention in their reviews. Since this is a budget-fi thread, I'd like to have an opportunity to seek everyone's esteemed opinion which might be helpful to others like me.



My first week on head-fi: $10 was considered a lot to pay for an IEM
My first month, $25 was a lot for premium IEM
After 2 months, why not try $50 to see if results were twice as good.
My 3rd month, I learned you can't get a good IEM for under $100.
Month 4, to get TOTL at budget cost, the DM6 and KPE are only $200.
The fifth month, why settle for those when you can get Andro quality in T800 for $300.
Six months in, I learned that the $5 MH755 for many uses is good enough.

Bottom line: the value of something is whether or not it brings you enjoyment of your music.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SoundChoice said:


> My first week on head-fi: $10 was considered a lot to pay for an IEM
> My first month, $25 was a lot for premium IEM
> After 2 months, why not try $50 to see if results were twice as good.
> My 3rd month, I learned you can't get a good IEM for under $100.
> ...



This is probably me in a nutshell and what prompted me to post in first place.


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## gazzington

SoundChoice said:


> My first week on head-fi: $10 was considered a lot to pay for an IEM
> My first month, $25 was a lot for premium IEM
> After 2 months, why not try $50 to see if results were twice as good.
> My 3rd month, I learned you can't get a good IEM for under $100.
> ...


T800 a good purchase?


----------



## SoundChoice

gazzington said:


> T800 a good purchase?



Hmm. While almost every person who tries the T800 says it is the sound of angels singing perfection complete with breathing microdetails between verses and harp plucks, I have been determined, on a mission, on a journey to swap out everything possible to make them enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, they're not _bad_. But after trying a dozen tips, I then had to swap out dampers. After that, I learned the ISN C16 cable can reduce the treble, and then add some Spiral Dots. This worked, sort of. True, this reduced sibilance (and I'm not even treble-sensitive). However, now I have two thick C16 steamliner anchor chains pressing down on my ears and the very present awareness of the tips pushing the ear insides while trying to stay focused on the music. To me, the T800s don't enhance my music, but provide a physical and auditory sensory experience that distracts from it. I've been chasing a ___% increase over the, say, DM6, which are very comfortable and disappear in my ear. Perhaps after hours of tinkering and trying new combinations, I'll finally find one that makes the T800 melt into my ear and provide the soundtrack of the heavenly host. But, all things being the same, I can throw a $10 buck cable on some BLONs and ZS10 Pros, forget the accessories and earphones are there, and just enjoy the sounds.  YMMV and all that.


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## voicemaster

Seazer said:


> GUYS
> I just realized something about the strange engrish on the BLON box
> 
> BELIEF
> ...



And u just realized it now? xD lol


----------



## thebearded1

voicemaster said:


> And u just realized it now? xD lol


Anyone know what "OPPOTY" is supposed to mean?  Optimum?


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## mbwilson111

thebearded1 said:


> Anyone know what "OPPOTY" is supposed to mean?  Optimum?



I think it could be Opportunity


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Wonder if KZ will ever try a full-size, or even an on-ear. I'd be super curious to try them.


----------



## Slater (Sep 27, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Wonder if KZ will ever try a full-size, or even an on-ear. I'd be super curious to try them.



They did.

KZ LP2:

    

KZ LP3:



KZ LP5:



I actually own the LP3, although I much rather wish I owned the LP2 instead.


----------



## Rorset

that first one is literally an exact copy of the vmoda m100


----------



## Slater

Rorset said:


> that first one is literally an exact copy of the vmoda m100



Yes. Although it's very possible that KZ made them *for* VModa. KZ has always been (and still is) an ODM manufacturer for many other companies...


----------



## nraymond

Slater said:


> Yes. Although it's very possible that KZ made them *for* VModa. KZ has always been (and still is) an ODM manufacturer for many other companies...



That seems unlikely. V-Moda M-100 came out in 2012. I'm pretty sure the KZ LP2 was much later. While that doesn't preclude some involvement, I haven't heard of any connection between the two companies. V-Moda has talked about having their own factories in Shenzen and Japan. Other than the similar looks between the headphones, I'm not aware of them having similar build quality or sound. Also how do you know that KZ is an ODM vs. other companies tapping into the talents of a larger company behind many of these Chi-Fi products? Unless there's evidence otherwise, I don't see any reason why KZ etc. couldn't just spec out these products and request custom tunings from some larger China manufacturing entity.


----------



## Jupiterknight (Sep 27, 2019)

Slater said:


> Yes. Although it's very possible that KZ made them *for* VModa. KZ has always been (and still is) an ODM manufacturer for many other companies...



Could be so, except they didn't sound like the V-moda "clone" at all.. bass was all over the place, so maybe V-moda tuned "their" version differently  But design wise... I agree


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> That seems unlikely. V-Moda M-100 came out in 2012. I'm pretty sure the KZ LP2 was much later. While that doesn't preclude some involvement, I haven't heard of any connection between the two companies. V-Moda has talked about having their own factories in Shenzen and Japan. Other than the similar looks between the headphones, I'm not aware of them having similar build quality or sound. Also how do you know that KZ is an ODM vs. other companies tapping into the talents of a larger company behind many of these Chi-Fi products? Unless there's evidence otherwise, I don't see any reason why KZ etc. couldn't just spec out these products and request custom tunings from some larger China manufacturing entity.



It could be that they used different drivers, or bought the shells from the same place that made the vmodas. Or, it’s possible that they just flat out pulled a mold from the vmodas and straight up copied them. I’ve never seen an LP2 in person, but I’d be able to tell after disassembling one.

As far as KZ spec’ing out their stuff to other companies (such as Estron), it is true that they’ve done that in the past. But they own their own factories now.


----------



## Slater

Jupiterknight said:


> Could be so, except they didn't sound like the V-moda "clone" at all.. bass was all over the place, so maybe V-moda tuned "their" version differently  But design wise... I agree



The LP3 sounds like a dumpster fire, so it doesn’t surprise me that the LP2 sounded less than ideal.

I’m glad that KZ has stuck with IEMs lol


----------



## Jupiterknight

Slater said:


> The LP3 sounds like a dumpster fire, so it doesn’t surprise me that the LP2 sounded less than ideal.
> 
> I’m glad that KZ has stuck with IEMs lol





Slater said:


> The LP3 sounds like a dumpster fire, so it doesn’t surprise me that the LP2 sounded less than ideal.
> 
> I’m glad that KZ has stuck with IEMs lol



Indeed,  it took them a while including a boatload of releases, but it finally seems like they are on the right track.. so I can only agree, KZ... stick with the IEM's....


----------



## SomeGuyDude

LOL well then damn I'll just stick with my Crossfades...


----------



## baskingshark

gazzington said:


> T800 a good purchase?



Well the Audiosense T800 excels at instrument separation, details and clarity but is pretty bright. So if u are treble sensitive, not the best option, unless u wanna play with knowles filters, eartips +/- cables.
It is also pretty source sensitive so to get the most out of it, a good DAC/Amp is advised rather than just driving it from a lowend smartphone. But otherwise, it is quite suitable for all genres and is my endgame multi BA set, I think it is worth it for a 8 Knowles BA for the price ($298 USD). Definitely more pricey than the usual sub 50 bucks CHIFI fare, but it would be an upgrade over most of the CHIFI stuff I have so far.


----------



## courierdriver

SomeGuyDude said:


> Don't get me wrong, the Be is probably my favorite IEM to date (from memory, it's been a while since I lost them), but even with the Be I had an "adjustment period" of sorts before I fully appreciated it. The ZSX was love at first listen, and I say with no hyperbole that I haven't had a moment like that since I tried out the Audeze LCD-X for the first time.
> 
> Now, _obviously_, the ZSX isn't in the same solar system as something like an Audeze, but it gave me that same moment of "ohhhhhh I love these" that I don't often get with headphones. I really do think if their tuning fits your tastes that the ZSX might quell any desire for upgrades.
> 
> ...


+1,×2! Especially the part of "oooo, I love these!" That was MY reaction to the ZS10 PRO. Next was: "these cost how much, again??!!". KZ (and CCA) has really been putting out some incredible sounding iems in the past several months. The SQ is really hitting far beyond their price and as a person with limited disposable income, I love how far these Chifi iems have gone to get close to TOTL quality and sound, for a fraction of the price. If all that was available was Western $500+ gear, I wouldn't be able to afford playing in this hobby. Thanks to Chifi, I can afford to have excellent sounding gear for fairly affordable prices. Gear that let's me enjoy my music without stressing my bank account as much, anyways. Lol!


----------



## Jupiterknight

baskingshark said:


> Well the Audiosense T800 excels at instrument separation, details and clarity but is pretty bright. So if u are treble sensitive, not the best option, unless u wanna play with knowles filters, eartips +/- cables.
> It is also pretty source sensitive so to get the most out of it, a good DAC/Amp is advised rather than just driving it from a lowend smartphone. But otherwise, it is quite suitable for all genres and is my endgame multi BA set, I think it is worth it for a 8 Knowles BA for the price ($298 USD). Definitely more pricey than the usual sub 50 bucks CHIFI fare, but it would be an upgrade over most of the CHIFI stuff I have so far.


 
KZ ZXS and/or CCA C12 are the ones to get from the from the KZ family tree.. their best releases so far...and  IMO priced absolutely reasonable...  Audiosense T800 is a step up, maybe not so much in tuning/frequency presentation, but in resolution, imaging and soundstage then the T800 is much closer to $1000+ IEM's than $50 vs. $300.... if that makes any sense  But again $300 is not cheap either...


----------



## Evoke

SomeGuyDude said:


> Depends on what you mean by "top of the line" and "compete". Diminishing returns do happen and while I don't think anyone here is saying a KZ is going to legitimately beat an Andromeda, the Chi-Fi market is definitely getting to a point where the desire to spend 10x more for a 10% increase sorta vanishes. They absolutely "compete" in the sense that they offer so much for such a low price point that unless someone really wants "best on the market" my first recommendation is becoming to look into the Chi-Fi products before worrying about any of the big names.


Can't disagree on that. Chi fi products are good enough for most of the consumers out there and it probably beats most entry level outdated American fi products from Shure and westone. However to many others, sometimes good enough isn't good enough for them


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 27, 2019)

Jupiterknight said:


> KZ ZXS and/or CCA C12 are the ones to get from the from the KZ family tree.. their best releases so far...and  IMO priced absolutely reasonable...  Audiosense T800 is a step up, maybe not so much in tuning/frequency presentation, but in resolution, imaging and soundstage then the T800 is much closer to $1000+ IEM's than $50 vs. $300.... if that makes any sense  But again $300 is not cheap either...



Yep agreed.

I don't have the KZX or CCA C12, but when I compare the Audiosense T800 to the KZX predecessor (KZ ZS10 Pro), if both are driven from just a lowend smartphone without amping/good DAC, the KZ ZS10 pro is not too far away in sound quality from the T800. Maybe the ZS10 Pro loses out in soundstage and timbre and some microdetails/imaging with a smartphone.
But if a good source file, dedicated DAC +/- amping is used, the T800 can draw out much much more microdetails and give better imaging than the ZS10 Pro.



SomeGuyDude said:


> Depends on what you mean by "top of the line" and "compete". Diminishing returns do happen and while I don't think anyone here is saying a KZ is going to legitimately beat an Andromeda, the Chi-Fi market is definitely getting to a point where the desire to spend 10x more for a 10% increase sorta vanishes. They absolutely "compete" in the sense that they offer so much for such a low price point that unless someone really wants "best on the market" my first recommendation is becoming to look into the Chi-Fi products before worrying about any of the big names.





Evoke said:


> Can't disagree on that. Chi fi products are good enough for most of the consumers out there and it probably beats most entry level outdated American fi products from Shure and westone. However to many others, sometimes good enough isn't good enough for them



Fully agreed.

Hence I alluded to in a previous post that the past 2 years, the CHIFI companies have really been giving us good bang for buck with their releases, and their sub 50 bucks IEMs are already very good in quality. Anything higher end would be improvements, but are they worth the diminishing returns relative to costs? That's up to the individual to decide.


----------



## linkzex

Hey I've noticed hissing for kz zsx on my desktop, I heard cheap dac/amp combo can remedy the issue but upon googling I found even some dac/amp can produce hiss on iems. Is there a recommendation for cheap dac/amp simply for eliminating hiss? Maybe someone in a similar situation can help me out.

I also see some suggestions for some kind of really cheap usb dac/ sound card decoder you can find on aliexpress? that might works?

Maybe someone in a similar situation can help me out ty


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 28, 2019)

linkzex said:


> Hey I've noticed hissing for kz zsx on my desktop, I heard cheap dac/amp combo can remedy the issue but upon googling I found even some dac/amp can produce hiss on iems. Is there a recommendation for cheap dac/amp simply for eliminating hiss? Maybe someone in a similar situation can help me out.
> 
> I also see some suggestions for some kind of really cheap usb dac/ sound card decoder you can find on aliexpress? that might works?
> 
> Maybe someone in a similar situation can help me out ty



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3210#post-15209679

Hi friend, I made a post about hiss in KZs a few pages ago.
It can be fixed with an amp, cheap in line volume controller or impedance mismatch device. I bought some cheap inline volume controllers from my neighbourhood provision shop for less than five bucks, it works like a charm. I'm pretty sure aliexpress will have cheaper and better quality ones. Just max your source volume and titrate upwards from the volume controller.


----------



## linkzex

baskingshark said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3210#post-15209679
> 
> Hi friend, I made a post about hiss in KZs a few pages ago.
> It can be fixed with an amp, cheap in line volume controller or impedance mismatch device. I bought some cheap inline volume controllers from my neighbourhood provision shop for less than five bucks, it works like a charm. I'm pretty sure aliexpress will have cheaper and better quality ones.


Don't those heavily reduce the sound quality?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Slater said:


> The LP3 sounds like a dumpster fire, so it doesn’t surprise me that the LP2 sounded less than ideal.
> 
> I’m glad that KZ has stuck with IEMs lol


Compared to BQEYZ and Audiosense iems, KZ is still trying to beat them in quality sound.


----------



## baskingshark

linkzex said:


> Don't those heavily reduce the sound quality?



I do feel an inline volume controller or impedance mismatch device does lower sound quality just a little bit. My portable fiio A3 amp is what i usually use to fix the hiss, but the volume controller is a quick cheap fix that is smaller in profile.

The hiss is actually not obvious inside the home or outside when music is playing. So maybe try using your KZX a few days and if u are really irritated by the hiss with music playing then those are the options if u really need to fix it.


----------



## linkzex

baskingshark said:


> I do feel an inline volume controller or impedance mismatch device does lower sound quality just a little bit. My portable fiio A3 amp is what i usually use to fix the hiss, but the volume controller is a quick cheap fix that is smaller in profile.
> 
> The hiss is actually not obvious inside the home or outside when music is playing. So maybe try using your KZX a few days and if u are really irritated by the hiss with music playing then those are the options if u really need to fix it.


Yea I think an amp/dac is what I need, fiio A3 hmm does it fully eliminate the noise when playing on really low volume?
I could use more suggestions for dac/amp (preferably cheaper options) that is for sure gonna eliminate the hiss


----------



## baskingshark

linkzex said:


> Yea I think an amp/dac is what I need, fiio A3 hmm does it fully eliminate the noise when playing on really low volume?
> I could use more suggestions for dac/amp (preferably cheaper options) that is for sure gonna eliminate the hiss



I don't have the KZX but I'm using the KZ ZS10 Pro (both have exactly same impedance and sensitivity) with the Fiio A3 right now and can confirm there is no hiss at low volumes or even when no music is playing. So far there is no hiss on it with all my other IEMs too, which in general are all low impedance compared to some headphones.
But strangely, if u max the Fiio A3 volume pot to near maximal volumes (which even my high impedance headphones don't require so much juice), then there is a hiss (like maybe 8/10 on volume pot). For comparisons, I don't usually require more than 2/10 on volume pot for my IEMs, and it starts getting painful at 4/10 onwards for IEMs.
The Fiio A3 is a pure amp though, no DAC component in it. And it is really an entry level amp that has been on the market for some years, so there might be better DAC/AMP combos that are newer and better out there, maybe the others can advise.


----------



## Detectit

KB ear balanced cable received.

I its a nice sturdy cable. The plastic has some resistance when you rub it.

The plug is also high quality... I like it.


----------



## linkzex

baskingshark said:


> I don't have the KZX but I'm using the KZ ZS10 Pro (both have exactly same impedance and sensitivity) with the Fiio A3 right now and can confirm there is no hiss at low volumes or even when no music is playing. So far there is no hiss on it with all my other IEMs too, which in general are all low impedance compared to some headphones.
> But strangely, if u max the Fiio A3 volume pot to near maximal volumes (which even my high impedance headphones don't require so much juice), then there is a hiss (like maybe 8/10 on volume pot). For comparisons, I don't usually require more than 2/10 on volume pot for my IEMs, and it starts getting painful at 4/10 onwards for IEMs.
> The Fiio A3 is a pure amp though, no DAC component in it. And it is really an entry level amp that has been on the market for some years, so there might be better DAC/AMP combos that are newer and better out there, maybe the others can advise.


Do you think Fiio A1 will have the same effect or should I just go for a3?


----------



## KimChee

That's a really good looking cable



Detectit said:


> KB ear balanced cable received.
> 
> I its a nice sturdy cable. The plastic has some resistance when you rub it.
> 
> The plug is also high quality... I like it.


----------



## KimChee

The $50+ releases of CCA and KZ are good enough even when paired with lower sources like the Walnut or Zishan for me.  So much so I'm considering getting rid of a lot of my TOTL gear.  My $50 KZ7 sound better than the older TOTL universals in th $300-400+ range from yester year about 5-10 years ago (ie Audio Technica CK10, Ultimate Ears TF10, Westone W3, Westone UM3X, Shure 535, Sennheiser IE8), and I want to play with my car more these days for a while.


----------



## darmanastartes

My ZSX review is up on my blog! Will post it to Head-Fi in the near future.


----------



## gazzington

KimChee said:


> The $50+ releases of CCA and KZ are good enough even when paired with lower sources like the Walnut or Zishan for me.  So much so I'm considering getting rid of a lot of my TOTL gear.  My $50 KZ7 sound better than the older TOTL universals in th $300-400+ range from yester year about 5-10 years ago (ie Audio Technica CK10, Ultimate Ears TF10, Westone W3, Westone UM3X, Shure 535, Sennheiser IE8), and I want to play with my car more these days for a while.


I'm starting to think the same. I was going to buy some totl iems but you know £50 gets you about 80% there with chi fi.


----------



## Seazer

There is some variation between units with the ZSX. My original black/silver version sounds great, but the blue/gray version sounds ever so slightly edgier and peaky in the treble, even after extensive burn in. It's unfortunate but isn't surprising given the sheer number of drivers in the iem, especially at the price point. The reviews I've seen that describe a fatigue or peakyness in the treble sounds like what I've heard with my second unit. My first unit sounds more balanced and is fatigue free. Maybe I got lucky on my first unit or maybe my second unit is an outlier, but my first pair sounds good enough that I'm probably selling my V90. It would have been a harder pick between the two if my only unit sounded like the second one


----------



## emeraldstone (Sep 29, 2019)

I would like to thank the KZ community here for their help and advice through the purchase and usage process!

After receiving the ZSX for a couple days and comparing it with my Shure SE215m+* (its not a great comparison but that is the only IEM I had before)* here are my thoughts:

*TLDR: *ZSX > SE215 in instrument separation, clarity, and bass but may need other tips for a better fit for smaller ears (YMMV). _Portability + Commute_ = SE215 / _Critical Listening =_ ZSX

*Setup:*
KZ Gold-Silver mixed upgrade cable + NewBee Foam tips (IEMS fit nicely in a Shure case) with Macbook 12” as source (Spotify)




Spoiler: Package pictures



 




*Size Comparison:*


Spoiler: Dimensions



  





*Fit + Comfort:*
Having small ears, fit was not that great with the stock eartips or starline tips as it would sit on my ears at an angle (ex. The left iem would sit at an angle “\” if the “|” represented the iem)

With the NewBee foam tips, the fit was more secure and sat closer to my ear.
*
Sound:*
Briefly commenting on the sound since I am not an audiophile at all. The instrument/voice separation, clarity is way better than the SE215. Bass is tight and the “kick” is better compared to SE215m+.

*Pros:*

Gold-Silver cable is very flexible, lightweight, and is very easy to untangle if tangled
Sound is great compared to SE215
Isolation is fairly good with foam tips
*Cons:*

Stock Brown KZ Cable gets tangled easily (would recommend changing the cable if you want a tangle free experience)
Required foam tips to have a better fit (stock and starline tips did not fit well)

*Notes:*

I had a slight hiss on my ZSX, I was able to reduce the hiss by increasing the system volume while reducing the application volume (ie. Spotify volume control)
NewBee tips appear to shed black particles when wiped down with a cloth compared to Shure foam sleeves
wonder what material Shure Sleeves use to make them so durable. I have had them since 2016 and never had to change the foam tips
Would recommend pushing the foam tips as in as possible (i pushed it until i could not see the shiny metal) to reduce the "tunneling" effect that may be sometimes heard on foam tips


----------



## Seazer (Sep 29, 2019)

Using my phone mic and a silicone tip (so take grain of salt) here are my measurements from the ZSX, V90, and BLON. Take from it what you will


----------



## Seazer

And here is the Sony MH755, Moondrop Crescent and Tin T2 for good measure and comparison


----------



## MyPants (Sep 29, 2019)

Full ZSX Sound Review is up 
Tracks used for testing in the video description.


----------



## KimChee

Nice review, and I love the Shure 215, used one for many years for gym duty 



emeraldstone said:


> I would like to thank the KZ community here for their help and advice through the purchase and usage process!
> 
> After receiving the ZSX for a couple days and comparing it with my Shure SE215m+* (its not a great comparison but that is the only IEM I had before)* here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


----------



## chinmie

MyPants said:


> Full ZSX Sound Review is up
> Tracks used for testing in the video description.




i like your reviews. subscribed


----------



## phikr1

for KZ ZS10 Pro, spinfit CP500 or CP155 ?? whats the pro and con ??


----------



## baskingshark

phikr1 said:


> for KZ ZS10 Pro, spinfit CP500 or CP155 ?? whats the pro and con ??



I use spinfit CP 100 with my KZ ZS10 Pro and it fits 100%. Never used the other 2 models (CP500 or CP155) so I can't advise whether they will fit or not.
Spinfit CP100 gives better comfort and isolation than stock tips. It does make treble a little bit increased.


----------



## RikudouGoku

phikr1 said:


> for KZ ZS10 Pro, spinfit CP500 or CP155 ?? whats the pro and con ??


https://spinfiteartip.com/en

Don't have the cp500 but the cp155 has a larger nozzle than the ZS10Pro I recommend the CP145


----------



## chinmie

just found out what the Zs10 Pro does better than all of my other IEMs, it works really great for playing games on my PS4. it's really spacious, conversations are clear, and pin-pointing sound is easy.
it's almost similar to my Kanas, but the Kanas has a more "analog" sounding mids and upper treble, making the ZS10 Pro sounding more sparkly and cleaner. for music though the Kanas is still better for my ears


----------



## phikr1

baskingshark said:


> I use spinfit CP 100 with my KZ ZS10 Pro and it fits 100%. Never used the other 2 models (CP500 or CP155) so I can't advise whether they will fit or not.
> Spinfit CP100 gives better comfort and isolation than stock tips. It does make treble a little bit increased.


wait... CP100 fit the ZS 10 Pro ?? thought it would be too small. have you used another Spinfit model? 



RikudouGoku said:


> https://spinfiteartip.com/en
> 
> Don't have the cp500 but the cp155 has a larger nozzle than the ZS10Pro I recommend the CP145


oh really ?? i thought the nozzle is around 6mm. i can go for the CP145 i guess. whats the smallest that could fit onto ZS10 Pro model ??


----------



## baskingshark

phikr1 said:


> wait... CP100 fit the ZS 10 Pro ?? thought it would be too small. have you used another Spinfit model?



Spinfit CP100 fits all the KZs I bought so far (I don't have KZX though). I have Spinfit CP 800 but those do not fit KZs (they are for very narrow nozzle IEMs). Never tried other spinfit models.


----------



## phikr1

baskingshark said:


> Spinfit CP100 fits all the KZs I bought so far (I don't have KZX though). I have Spinfit CP 800 but those do not fit KZs (they are for very narrow nozzle IEMs). Never tried other spinfit models.


thanks a lot, i didnt know the 3.8mm CP100 could fit a number of KZ models including ZS10 Pro. Do you know the exact diameter of ZS10 Pro stock eartip? the medium one is just a bit too large for me and the smallest one is too small that it kinda hurt my ear canal, so im looking for eartip's diameter in between those two.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

phikr1 said:


> oh really ?? i thought the nozzle is around 6mm. i can go for the CP145 i guess. whats the smallest that could fit onto ZS10 Pro model ??



You don't want the smallest. They're rubber so you can squeeze a CP100 on there but it really bonks up the sound.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RikudouGoku said:


> https://spinfiteartip.com/en
> 
> Don't have the cp500 but the cp155 has a larger nozzle than the ZS10Pro I recommend the CP145



According to Spinfit themselves the CP145 is intended for KZ products so that's what I just ordered. Fingers crossed.


----------



## phikr1 (Sep 30, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> You don't want the smallest. They're rubber so you can squeeze a CP100 on there but it really bonks up the sound.


oohh thanks for the insight, but i dont see how that would affect the sound, or does that come from your experience ?



SomeGuyDude said:


> According to Spinfit themselves the CP145 is intended for KZ products so that's what I just ordered. Fingers crossed.


i just check their website, the CP145 model doesnt have eartip smaller than 11mm (the smallest CP145's eartip is 11.5) preferably i want it between 10 to 11mm. Another option i find is CP100z which has 0.2mm bigger core size than CP100.


----------



## Caipirina

So much Spinfit talk, makes my head spin   But thanks to you guys and catching up on like 10 pages of posts, I have learned a lot about the different sizes ... like 'need to get cp155 for the zxs which are still in the mail' ... and maybe I should also get some cp145 for my zs10 pro ... currently i have the cp100 on, they do fit, but I can see that there is quite some nozzle block going on .. can I hear it? not sure ... 

Now the big question: where do you guys get your spinfits from? I find Aliexpress just kinda expensive, 6-9$ just for tips? Is there not a cheaper source? Or is that the going rate?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

phikr1 said:


> oohh thanks for the insight, but i dont see how that would affect the sound, or does that come from your experience ?



Experience. I put the CP100s on my ZSX and the sound changed drastically for the worse. It was congested and the bass became incredibly bloomy and undefined.

It's not hard to understand why. A speaker nozzle has a given diameter and you're pushing the air through a narrower channel, not much different than making a speaker box with different diameter vents in it (though speakers are situated in one of the walls of the box rather than wholly inside). That's why different diameters exist with such small increments. They're made of rubber, they'll stretch over pretty damn big nozzles, but it'll sound awful.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Caipirina said:


> So much Spinfit talk, makes my head spin   But thanks to you guys and catching up on like 10 pages of posts, I have learned a lot about the different sizes ... like 'need to get cp155 for the zxs which are still in the mail' ... and maybe I should also get some cp145 for my zs10 pro ... currently i have the cp100 on, they do fit, but I can see that there is quite some nozzle block going on .. can I hear it? not sure ...
> 
> Now the big question: where do you guys get your spinfits from? I find Aliexpress just kinda expensive, 6-9$ just for tips? Is there not a cheaper source? Or is that the going rate?



$10 for tips is incredibly reasonable for good ones, especially since they come in a pack of a few pairs. You can get junk tips by the bag but they'll barely seal and be crazy thin.


----------



## Seazer

phikr1 said:


> oohh thanks for the insight, but i dont see how that would affect the sound, or does that come from your experience ?
> 
> 
> i just check their website, the CP145 model doesnt have eartip smaller than 11mm (the smallest CP145's eartip is 11.5) preferably i want it between 10 to 11mm. Another option i find is CP100z which has 0.2mm bigger core size than CP100.


Smaller tube opening means increased air pressure. It's how a compression driver in horn tweeters work (or things like megaphones for example.) a larger driver behind a smaller opening increases the air pressure, making it more efficient.

You can definitely fit smaller tips on the ZSX if it's flexible enough, I put Sony hybrids on there and they are small nozzles. 

BTW have any of you tried spiral dot tips? How do you like them? There are so many sizes idk which one to pick and they are $15 a pair lmao


----------



## Caipirina

SomeGuyDude said:


> $10 for tips is incredibly reasonable for good ones, especially since they come in a pack of a few pairs. You can get junk tips by the bag but they'll barely seal and be crazy thin.



Where do you find 'pack of few pairs'? All offers I find on Ali make it very clear the prices I mentioned are for ONE pair (2 pieces) ... they cut the packages ... where do I get those full packages?  (and at what price?)


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

It's a pity there are no more reviews of the KZ AS12. They're really good earphones. Maybe the best multi-BAs under $100. 
They haven't very natural timbre, but great detail and transient. Suitable for many genres due to their smooth mild V-shape sound signature. Yet female vocals are alive, male vocals not so.
Bass is very detailed, surprisingly deep and flat. I EQ it for edm.
Mids are smooth, V-shaped with a little artificial timbre (but better then AS16 timbre)
Trebles are fantastic for the price. Clear, smooth, without dips ar peaks. Enough airy for most of my music, but some may find them to roll of early.

With their good isolation and comfort I use the AS12 daily to commute.


----------



## phikr1

SomeGuyDude said:


> Experience. I put the CP100s on my ZSX and the sound changed drastically for the worse. It was congested and the bass became incredibly bloomy and undefined.
> 
> It's not hard to understand why. A speaker nozzle has a given diameter and you're pushing the air through a narrower channel, not much different than making a speaker box with different diameter vents in it (though speakers are situated in one of the walls of the box rather than wholly inside). That's why different diameters exist with such small increments. They're made of rubber, they'll stretch over pretty damn big nozzles, but it'll sound awful.





Seazer said:


> Smaller tube opening means increased air pressure. It's how a compression driver in horn tweeters work (or things like megaphones for example.) a larger driver behind a smaller opening increases the air pressure, making it more efficient.
> 
> You can definitely fit smaller tips on the ZSX if it's flexible enough, I put Sony hybrids on there and they are small nozzles.
> 
> BTW have any of you tried spiral dot tips? How do you like them? There are so many sizes idk which one to pick and they are $15 a pair lmao



i see, thanks for explaining it.



Caipirina said:


> Now the big question: where do you guys get your spinfits from? I find Aliexpress just kinda expensive, 6-9$ just for tips? Is there not a cheaper source? Or is that the going rate?



i could find a pair for 4.5 USD or 8 USD if i buy two pairs from Shopee or Tokopedia, i dont think they ship worldwide tho.


----------



## chinmie

i never did like the spinfits.. the fit is good, no problem there.. but they choked the treble too much for me. and the worse thing is it is not a straight roll off, but like pinching the EQ somewhere in the treble freq that makes me don't use them anymore. the Final Audio tips is a better alternative for that similar nozzle bending solution than the Spinfit


----------



## Seazer

chinmie said:


> i never did like the spinfits.. the fit is good, no problem there.. but they choked the treble too much for me. and the worse thing is it is not a straight roll off, but like pinching the EQ somewhere in the treble freq that makes me don't use them anymore. the Final Audio tips is a better alternative for that similar nozzle bending solution than the Spinfit


Do the final tips run small? In using a medium Sony hybrid, would that match a medium final tip?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Sep 30, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> Now the big question: where do you guys get your spinfits from? I find Aliexpress just kinda expensive, 6-9$ just for tips? Is there not a cheaper source? Or is that the going rate?



I have found Spinfits for as low as $5 per pair on aliexpress during sales.

Amazon UK charges £13.99 for one pair!  That is around $17 at the moment.

I  just checked Amazon.com and found them for $10.99.   We get so ripped off here in the UK.

I will stick with aliexpress.


----------



## MyPants

chinmie said:


> i like your reviews. subscribed



Thank you! I have some interesting stuff coming in the next few weeks, but I'll be keeping a closer eye on this thread and KZ in general cause I'm really interested to see where they go next.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> i never did like the spinfits.. the fit is good, no problem there.. but they choked the treble too much for me. and the worse thing is it is not a straight roll off, but like pinching the EQ somewhere in the treble freq that makes me don't use them anymore. the Final Audio tips is a better alternative for that similar nozzle bending solution than the Spinfit



The flaw is in using a smaller than usual Spinfit and them jamming it in way too deep. Their whole "it angles to your ear" thing makes it sound like you're supposed to shove the thing in as far as it'll go but that ain't the case. It's a gentle turn at the IEM's normal fit, which is often not that deep.


----------



## MyPants

xxAMAROKxx said:


> It's a pity there are no more reviews of the KZ AS12. They're really good earphones. Maybe the best multi-BAs under $100.
> They haven't very natural timbre, but great detail and transient. Suitable for many genres due to their smooth mild V-shape sound signature. Yet female vocals are alive, male vocals not so.
> Bass is very detailed, surprisingly deep and flat. I EQ it for edm.
> Mids are smooth, V-shaped with a little artificial timbre (but better then AS16 timbre)
> ...



I think unnatural timbre is a bit of a death knell even for budget IEMs these days. The bar has just been raised so high that there's usually a price-competitive alternative purchase option that will deliver equal detail without sacrificing timbre at almost every pricepoint.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> The flaw is in using a smaller than usual Spinfit and them jamming it in way too deep. Their whole "it angles to your ear" thing makes it sound like you're supposed to shove the thing in as far as it'll go but that ain't the case. It's a gentle turn at the IEM's normal fit, which is often not that deep.



i always use L size on almost all of my iems, except the Etymotics and my Earin M2, and when i use the spinfit (and most others too) usually it just resting snug, as long as it achieve full seal. maybe it's just the hourglass shaped core of the spinfit combined with my ear canal's shape that makes them sound like that to me


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MyPants said:


> I think unnatural timbre is a bit of a death knell even for budget IEMs these days. The bar has just been raised so high that there's usually a price-competitive alternative purchase option that will deliver equal detail without sacrificing timbre at almost every pricepoint.



I'm rather glad this race towards raw technicalities has waned a bit. I'm not terribly concerned about "detail retrieval" and "decay time" if the overall sound isn't pleasant. There's a reason plenty of people still use headphones made 20+ years ago.

If you're sitting with headphones on and you're listening to all the tiny minutiae instead of immersing into the music, I mean if you're enjoying it then more power to you, but I'm far more a fan of admiring the forest than scrutinizing the trees.


----------



## Seazer

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm rather glad this race towards raw technicalities has waned a bit. I'm not terribly concerned about "detail retrieval" and "decay time" if the overall sound isn't pleasant. There's a reason plenty of people still use headphones made 20+ years ago.
> 
> If you're sitting with headphones on and you're listening to all the tiny minutiae instead of immersing into the music, I mean if you're enjoying it then more power to you, but I'm far more a fan of admiring the forest than scrutinizing the trees.


The first time I ate mushrooms I did some pretty hard tree scrutinizing lmao


----------



## muths66

Best Combo


 !!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

They really are effing beautiful.

I do want to try out the A16 but as it stands the ZSX is my favorite IEM I've bought. Not the absolute best sounding (that's still the Be from my recollection), but they sound so damn good for such a low price while being sexy as hell and I find them really comfortable to wear.


----------



## PhonoPhi

xxAMAROKxx said:


> It's a pity there are no more reviews of the KZ AS12. They're really good earphones. Maybe the best multi-BAs under $100.
> They haven't very natural timbre, but great detail and transient. Suitable for many genres due to their smooth mild V-shape sound signature. Yet female vocals are alive, male vocals not so.
> Bass is very detailed, surprisingly deep and flat. I EQ it for edm.
> Mids are smooth, V-shaped with a little artificial timbre (but better then AS16 timbre)
> ...



I liked AS12 at first, but then the timbre made it harder to enjoy.
The powerful BA bass is its mighty plus for sure.

I feel that with AS12, KZ aimed to improve AS10 - more treble, but not "steely". They succeeded other than the timbre ("X6 syndrome"I call it). TRN X6 have similar timbre distortions but way more exaggerated. X6 can still work with some music, but then one is safer to make a separate X6-friendly playlist  

C12 is so more natural in timbre compared to AS12 to me.

I woukd love to get all-BA analogue of C12.
C16 is still my primary IEM, more C12-like highs would be great.
I am curious now whether AS16 do (tempted to get it below $95) or should I patiently wait for C18 (which seems not to be in immediate plans)?


----------



## baskingshark

SomeGuyDude said:


> Experience. I put the CP100s on my ZSX and the sound changed drastically for the worse. It was congested and the bass became incredibly bloomy and undefined.
> 
> It's not hard to understand why. A speaker nozzle has a given diameter and you're pushing the air through a narrower channel, not much different than making a speaker box with different diameter vents in it (though speakers are situated in one of the walls of the box rather than wholly inside). That's why different diameters exist with such small increments. They're made of rubber, they'll stretch over pretty damn big nozzles, but it'll sound awful.





SomeGuyDude said:


> The flaw is in using a smaller than usual Spinfit and them jamming it in way too deep. Their whole "it angles to your ear" thing makes it sound like you're supposed to shove the thing in as far as it'll go but that ain't the case. It's a gentle turn at the IEM's normal fit, which is often not that deep.



I don't have the ZSX but so far I've been using medium CP100 spinfits on my KZ ZS6, ZS10 Pro, ZS10 (original) and had no issues with congestion or boomy bass. But maybe I'm a basshead and didn't notice that the bass became boomy LOL.
But I definitely agree that if I jam the spinfit too deep it muffles the sound, but if u just angle it normally I find it gives a better seal and sound than the stock KZ starline tips. Maybe we all have different ear anatomy, so YMMV.


----------



## otteros

muths66 said:


> Best Combo !!


What tips are those?


----------



## muths66

otteros said:


> What tips are those?


tin hifi p1 tip


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Threw the large CP145s on the ZSX and I've ascended. Absolutely immaculate. Might get a new cable just because the tangling and low split are irritating me now.


----------



## chinmie

does anyone that have both ZS10 Pro and ZSX can test them on gaming? which one has better performance? i won't be using them for music, just gaming and movies


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> does anyone that have both ZS10 Pro and ZSX can test them on gaming? which one has better performance? i won't be using them for music, just gaming and movies



I own both and tested them although just using youtube and netflix, ZSX definitely better as their mids are more forward, conversation and dialog are more pronounced, micro details are better in ZSX, gunfire pin pointing also better and sounds more natural in ZSX.


----------



## lgcubana (Oct 2, 2019)

*Nicehck DB3 vs. KZ ZS10 Pro*




Spotify Premium (desktop app) --> EQ APO w/Peace interface --> Monolith THX 788 --> mDrop XLR to 2.5 mm
Both IEMs are using Nicehck C16-x cables
Same EQ settings _(accidentally titled AS10, but it is for the ZS10Pro)_




Fit: Both are comfortable for me. The smaller foot print of the DB3 does allow it to sit flusher to the exterior of my ear.

(Upper bands)
"The Good, The Bad, The Ugly": The BA(s) on both units do a better than average job of delivering the goods. The KZs did get close, to tickling the ceiling of my comfort zone, for the upper bands.

(Vocals)
"Easy", Commodores: DB3, the instruments come across as being more defined. Lionel Richie's timbre is spot on. ZS10 Pro, elevated bass, the drums are more prevalent; which can be interpreted as warmer. Due to the lean towards the lower to mid-bass, vocals are a touched recessed.

(Da Bass)
"Wait", Ying Yangs Twins: KZ, sub bass is clean. At moderate volume, I can sense the lower bands. DB3, has just a touch more resonance, in comparison.

(70s, a time when 12" woofers were the norm)
"I wanna get next to you", Rose Royce: KZ, rich, (due to elevated low end) bass guitar is just right (for the genre). DB3, said bass guitar takes a step back. DB3 would win for late night, otherwise KZ all day.

Conclusion:
The DB3 ($20) is a viable competitor for the $50 standard, the KZ ZS10 Pro. I'm confident that with a little tweaking in the Peace app, I could make the two IEMs closer in sound signatures.


----------



## PhonoPhi

lgcubana said:


> *Nicehck DB3 vs. KZ ZS10 Pro*
> 
> Spotify Premium (desktop app) --> EQ APO w/Peace interface --> Monolith THX 788 --> mDrop XLR to 2.5 mm
> Both IEMs are using Nicehck C16-x cables
> ...



DB3 is in a category of ZSN pro and CCA CA4.
Hardly, one BA from the same factory would give the resolution of 4 BAs.

To better propel the "h-train", a comparison with Fiio FH1 and F9 would be most effective


----------



## lgcubana

PhonoPhi said:


> DB3 is in a category of ZSN pro and CCA CA4.
> Hardly, one BA from the same factory would give the resolution of 4 BAs.
> 
> To better propel the "h-train", a comparison with Fiio FH1 and F9 would be most effective


DB3  vs. ZS10 Pro

In my conclusion, you’ll see that I chose my criteria to be the <$50 category,

If my goal were to take a ride on a hype train, every finding would be gushing , for the DB3. The sound signatures without EQ, address the low end differently; some will gravitate to one, over the other.


----------



## PhonoPhi

lgcubana said:


> DB3  vs. ZS10 Pro
> 
> In my conclusion, you’ll see that I chose my criteria to be the <$50 category,
> 
> If my goal were to take a ride on a hype train, every finding would be gushing , for the DB3. The sound signatures without EQ, address the low end differently; some will gravitate to one, over the other.


My main point : does DB3 provide similar resolution to C12 and ZSX ( main current competitors similar to ZS10pro under $40)?
If less likely - then comparison with a single BA hybrids may be more fair and to the point.


----------



## Assimilator702

otteros said:


> What tips are those?


Also same as the  Grey/Red tips NiceHCK sells for $1.85 on AE. One of preferred,go to tips along with the TRN Black/Red and the Tennmak Wide Bores. Throw in TRN Clear/White silicone if you need a bit more bass and the largest bore size besides the Tennmak tips.

If I can use any of these tips with success I’m a happy camper since they're all roughly $2 a set or less.

A tip for anyone having an issue with the large  nozzles on the ZSX......go one size down and it SHOULD do the trick. I normally use a large tip but with the ZSX and other larger KZ/CCA Medium tips work well.


----------



## courierdriver

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm rather glad this race towards raw technicalities has waned a bit. I'm not terribly concerned about "detail retrieval" and "decay time" if the overall sound isn't pleasant. There's a reason plenty of people still use headphones made 20+ years ago.
> 
> If you're sitting with headphones on and you're listening to all the tiny minutiae instead of immersing into the music, I mean if you're enjoying it then more power to you, but I'm far more a fan of admiring the forest than scrutinizing the trees.


Sometimes I like to scrutinize the trees, other times I like to see the whole forest. That's why people own multiple sets of earphones. It's nice to have different perspectives, and hear the music presented in a different way.


----------



## linkzex (Oct 3, 2019)

hmm I've been using medium ear tip for the past few days and while it fits tight (small suction when pulling out) it's uncomfortable for longer listening session.
While small ear tip is way comfier but it's less tight obviously, but slightly deeper insert (still secure when moving around, just no suction when pulling out)
Should I just use the small ear tip


----------



## KipNix

courierdriver said:


> Sometimes I like to scrutinize the trees, other times I like to see the whole forest. That's why people own multiple sets of earphones. It's nice to have different perspectives, and hear the music presented in a different way.


I liken it to taking a test drive of a car. 
After that, you go for a nice ride and enjoy.


----------



## mbwilson111

linkzex said:


> hmm I've been using medium ear tip for the past few days and while it fits tight (small suction when pulling out) it's uncomfortable for longer listening session.
> While small ear tip is way comfier but it's less tight obviously, but slightly deeper insert (still secure when moving around, just no suction when pulling out)
> Should I just use the small ear tip



Are you happy with the sound?


----------



## courierdriver

KipNix said:


> I liken it to taking a test drive of a car.
> After that, you go for a nice ride and enjoy.


I used to do that. I'd test drive stuff all the time. Thing is; for most people anyway, it's financially unfeasible to own multiple vehicles. Sure, I'd like to have the luxury of driving a sports car or sports sedan in the summer months when it's warm and dry...then again, I'd also love a raised suspension 4×4 truck for the winter months, when the snow is deep, roads haven't been plowed, and the weather is generally crappy. Vehicles cost tens of thousands of $'s. Earphones can be bought for significantly less; yet they can each give a different experience in each of their presentations. I really don't see how vehicles and earphones compare in this scenario. I can own multiple sets of earphones (each with their own unique sound signature) that will give me more enjoyment than 2 vehicles...for substantially less money. Don't get me wrong; I love cars and appreciate them for their styles, performance and other factors. But, at best; each type only performs 1 task: getting you from point A to point B. Some do it faster, some do it easier, some kinda do both, but not as well as a whole. Cars are expensive and require alot of maintenance. Some have high insurance premiums and require high octane/expensive fuel. Earphones don't need anything like that. Even if you need a better source, dac, dac/amp, amp, etc...it's nowhere near as expensive as owning or maintaining vehicles.


----------



## linkzex

mbwilson111 said:


> Are you happy with the sound?


there's less bass but the soundstage is somewhat improved. Yea I've been using the small tip now because it's way more comfortable. 
I wonder if I should get the spinfit cp155, are they the same size as the kz starline tip? As in the size of spinfit S is the same as starline S.


----------



## linkzex

SomeGuyDude said:


> Threw the large CP145s on the ZSX and I've ascended. Absolutely immaculate. Might get a new cable just because the tangling and low split are irritating me now.


Didn't you dislike the sound spinfit makes? What makes you like them now? Different model? Size?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

linkzex said:


> Didn't you dislike the sound spinfit makes? What makes you like them now? Different model? Size?



I disliked the CP100 because the narrow nozzle choked the sound. The CP145 is wider and doesn't have those problems. Nice and careful semi-shallow insertion and bam. Bliss. Using the Large because my ear canals are a bit on the big side.


----------



## Nimweth

Trying the 8 core Senlee cable with various IEMs. ZS7 very successful, the sound opened up making the profile more balanced. Soundstage and imaging improved. ZSX not so good, seemed to lose atmosphere, it sounded better with my Hifi hear hybrid cable. C12 excellent. Big soundstage and pinpoint imaging and smoother treble. I'll be testing the BLON BL-03 next. It's amazing how synergy plays such an important part in percieved sound quality. The ZSX seems quite fussy, as it didn't like the TRN 16 core cable either, but that sounds great on the BLON.


----------



## Mybutthurts

@Nimweth

I thought that there was a difference between .75 & .78 and didn't fit each other?

If .75 cables fit the Blon bl03 all the better, as I have them on order and plenty of spare KZ cables that could fit... hopefully
As the cable that comes with the Blon has issues I believe.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

If y'all think a $20 cable is making your $40 IEM change sound character I got a bridge to sell you.

Get a new cable to fix the physical problems of the stock (tangling, low splitter, 90 degree jack), not because you think it'll change how it sounds.


----------



## nraymond

SomeGuyDude said:


> If y'all think a $20 cable is making your $40 IEM change sound character I got a bridge to sell you.
> 
> Get a new cable to fix the physical problems of the stock (tangling, low splitter, 90 degree jack), not because you think it'll change how it sounds.



Just keep in mind that placebo effect is real - as in the mind is a powerful thing, and things like color, shape, texture, smell (all the different senses) as well as mental expectation all play a role in affecting what we experience (i.e. it really changes things for the person experiencing something, senses are malleable that way). So we shouldn't discount people's different experiences with cables, I think those cables are affecting their senses, but the cause of that effect is probably not how the electricity is flowing through the cable due to it's construction so much as the person's sense being changed by how their brain is perceiving and expecting their experience to be based on what they're seeing/feeling/thinking. I don't expect everyone to be interested in the level of introspection and self-analysis to suss out these differences, and just tend to pay more attention to the posters who do. I usually don't try to change the habits of other people unless they ask or are genuinely interested in human physiology and psychology and how our senses work (which is tricky, because some of this stuff can overlap with our egos, sense of self, and how we value and perceive our own senses and judgements, which can be a touchy subject).


----------



## Nimweth (Oct 4, 2019)

Mybutthurts said:


> @Nimweth
> 
> I thought that there was a difference between .75 & .78 and didn't fit each other?
> 
> ...


I have various cables from different manufacturers which I have used successfully on my CCA, KZ, KBEAR and other makes as well as the BLON BL-03 and all fit well, though some are not quite as secure as others. Some members here (including me) found the stock cable on the BLON problematic as it compromised the fit.


----------



## Mybutthurts

That's good to know. KZ cables should fit then.
Nearly all my IEMS have replacement cables from different manufacturers...
Or in the case of CCA c12 the nice freebie multi colour cable.
Thanks.


----------



## Jzkr

Mybutthurts said:


> @Nimweth
> 
> I thought that there was a difference between .75 & .78 and didn't fit each other?
> 
> ...




Yes the difference is their pins' diameter. 
Altough it's only 0.03 mm pretty small difference.
The 0.78 should fit in a 0.75 port too. But once you insert the bigger once (0.78) the thinner one would not be that fit anymore. Like, you know the idea.
In my case I bought a spare 0.78 cable for my KZ ZST and I exchange it pretty often. Then at some point I plug the original cable (0.75) it become loose and unplugged easily


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nraymond said:


> Just keep in mind that placebo effect is real - as in the mind is a powerful thing, and things like color, shape, texture, smell (all the different senses) as well as mental expectation all play a role in affecting what we experience (i.e. it really changes things for the person experiencing something, senses are malleable that way). So we shouldn't discount people's different experiences with cables, I think those cables are affecting their senses, but the cause of that effect is probably not how the electricity is flowing through the cable due to it's construction so much as the person's sense being changed by how their brain is perceiving and expecting their experience to be based on what they're seeing/feeling/thinking. I don't expect everyone to be interested in the level of introspection and self-analysis to suss out these differences, and just tend to pay more attention to the posters who do. I usually don't try to change the habits of other people unless they ask or are genuinely interested in human physiology and psychology and how our senses work (which is tricky, because some of this stuff can overlap with our egos, sense of self, and how we value and perceive our own senses and judgements, which can be a touchy subject).



I say it because people are spending money that they had to earn via work. I dislike the idea of someone being out $10, $50, $100+ dollars on something that genuinely is not improving their experience when there are other avenues that wouldn't be essentially burning their cash.

Yes, if someone just has money coming out of their ears, then have fun spending it, but personally I would much rather help guide someone to more useful spending. I fear these forums often leave people blowing cash left and right on things that they shouldn't be in order to achieve some effect that said purchases are legitimately incapable of producing. It's not just Emperor's New Clothes, it's people actually spending money to see the emperor in his new clothes.


----------



## Nimweth

nraymond said:


> Just keep in mind that placebo effect is real - as in the mind is a powerful thing, and things like color, shape, texture, smell (all the different senses) as well as mental expectation all play a role in affecting what we experience (i.e. it really changes things for the person experiencing something, senses are malleable that way). So we shouldn't discount people's different experiences with cables, I think those cables are affecting their senses, but the cause of that effect is probably not how the electricity is flowing through the cable due to it's construction so much as the person's sense being changed by how their brain is perceiving and expecting their experience to be based on what they're seeing/feeling/thinking. I don't expect everyone to be interested in the level of introspection and self-analysis to suss out these differences, and just tend to pay more attention to the posters who do. I usually don't try to change the habits of other people unless they ask or are genuinely interested in human physiology and psychology and how our senses work (which is tricky, because some of this stuff can overlap with our egos, sense of self, and how we value and perceive our own senses and judgements, which can be a touchy subject).


Absolutely. But what I find interesting is that if expectation has an effect, some experiences were negative as well as positive. The mind truly is inscrutable!


----------



## nappiguan (Oct 4, 2019)

Facts:  Headphones and earphones all have tiny wires taking that same signal to and from the speaker (driver).  That signal does not change when it flows through the cable then the tiny wire.  Changes only occur when resistors and such are used.  Science Bruh.


----------



## youngarthur

I have had expensive cables, when I had HEK/HD800 etc., but my old ears could not tell the difference between those, and the cheapest cables I had.


----------



## Nimweth

nappiguan said:


> Facts:  Headphones and earphones all have tiny wires taking that same signal to and from the speaker (driver).  That signal does not change when it flows through the cable then the tiny wire.  Changes only occur when resistors and such are used.  Science Bruh.


I agree with that but a superior cable is able to minimise signal loss rather than magically change the flow of electrons.


----------



## zr0dfx

Can anyone recommend a good upgrade cable for the ZSX? Preferably one with a chin slider and with the ”Type C” connection on the IEM end.

I have had a look at the cable thread but I think I am in over my head (and round the back of my ears) here.

I really love the feel of the cable that came with my audiosense t260. It’s super soft and hard to get tangled. I don’t know if any of you have tried that one but something like that would be fantastic.


----------



## lgcubana

zr0dfx said:


> Can anyone recommend a good upgrade cable for the ZSX? Preferably one with a chin slider and with the ”Type C” connection on the IEM end.
> 
> I have had a look at the cable thread but I think I am in over my head (and round the back of my ears) here.
> 
> I really love the feel of the cable that came with my audiosense t260. It’s super soft and hard to get tangled. I don’t know if any of you have tried that one but something like that would be fantastic.


Here's an inexpensive listing from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Upgraded-E...d=1570288784&sprefix=kz+cable+,aps,308&sr=8-5

Taking the bling up a notch, choose the QDC termination, 3.5 mm or 2.5 mm:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...7.0&pvid=128ce354-3236-49ba-9bdb-b8a0acc3ee2b


----------



## darmanastartes

My ZSX review is now up on Head-Fi. 
I also just posted my TRN V90 review to my blog.


----------



## zr0dfx

lgcubana said:


> Here's an inexpensive listing from Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Upgraded-Earphone-Upgrade-Detachable-Replacement-Brown/dp/B07V5Y33G7/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3LVPMKYI8C0AI&keywords=kz+cable+c+pin&qid=1570288784&sprefix=kz+cable+,aps,308&sr=8-5
> 
> Taking the bling up a notch, choose the QDC termination, 3.5 mm or 2.5 mm:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...7.0&pvid=128ce354-3236-49ba-9bdb-b8a0acc3ee2b



I have the first one on order already from AliExpress. I am loving the look of that second one. Chin slider and all, costs more that my IEM’s.
Shame there is not more choice in the less than £15 range.


----------



## ShakyJake

darmanastartes said:


> My ZSX review is now up on Head-Fi.
> I also just posted my TRN V90 review to my blog.



Thanks for the review. I very much appreciate the comparison (including the graphs!) with TRN V90 and Blon BL-03. All three are current favorites around here with slightly different strengths.

Some have claimed that the V90 is more V-shaped than the ZSX, but your graph does not really show that.



Spoiler: V90 vs ZSX


----------



## darmanastartes

ShakyJake said:


> Thanks for the review. I very much appreciate the comparison (including the graphs!) with TRN V90 and Blon BL-03. All three are current favorites around here with slightly different strengths.
> 
> Some have claimed that the V90 is more V-shaped than the ZSX, but your graph does not really show that.
> 
> ...


I would say it is but not by a ton.


----------



## KPzypher

I'll preface this post by saying "YMMV (greatly)" and "It's just my opinion."

After dabbling in so called HI-fi/summit-fi portable gear for a while, just picked up a second pair of KZs (ZSX) for the heck of it and it sounds................. "really good."

For me, the difference between a well made entry level IEM and a $2K set isn't night and day (outside of build quality/packaging).  Yes, a TOTL IEM will likely sound better, but unless you A/B between the two every few seconds, in which no one practically listens to music that way, you're not really missing much.  Or at least, it's not going to give you a out of this world experience.  

Same goes for DAPs.  The difference between your Smartphone and a $3K DAP isn't night and day.  Of course you'll need a proper DAP to effectively run fullsize cans, but for IEMs, most are sensitive enough to be ran with plenty of headroom from your smartphone or a dongle.  There are plenty of DAPs that sounds good and most are capable beyond human hearing.  

I have several friends and a family member that are sound engineers, and most of them use whatever cheap sets of IEMs/Ipods they can get their hands on for listening pleasures outside of work.  One said "Albums are created with mass consumption in mind, not audiophiles.  Dude you're not missing much."  But in this hobby, lot of people get so wrapped up in subtle nuances, that they likely won't even be able to discern in a true blind test.  

So in my opinion, no need to be compelled to stretch your budget to get that next tier audio gear, especially if you're accruing debt in the process.  Now if you have money to burn, and your hobby is to try every gear out there, please keep doing so and report back to us with your impressions/thoughts.  Bottom line, you should enjoy music whether you're steaming music from spotify from your phone on a $50 KZ or listening to a DSD file on a TOTL DAP and IEMs. 

At the end of the day, no amount of money will change your sound preference.  But I understand the fundamental human need to justify their spending, hence some get aggressive in defending their gear or brand(s).

Enjoy your music.


----------



## Tonymac136

Absolutely. The IEM I spend the very most time listening to is one of the very cheapest I own. Timbre and tuning is more important with audio gear than detail and technical excellence in the real world.

I don't want to be bombarded with detail every time I listen. Sometimes I just want to hear good music sounding good. I don't want to concern myself with plugging in one of my amps or DACs - straight into the smartphone and load up Tidal. With only one exception all of my IEMs were sub-£100. Yet I can't recall the last time I listened using my more expensive cans or my month's wages expensive (though nearly 20 year old) hifi.


----------



## AtrafCreez

SomeGuyDude said:


> I say it because people are spending money that they had to earn via work. I dislike the idea of someone being out $10, $50, $100+ dollars on something that genuinely is not improving their experience when there are other avenues that wouldn't be essentially burning their cash.
> 
> Yes, if someone just has money coming out of their ears, then have fun spending it, but personally I would much rather help guide someone to more useful spending. I fear these forums often leave people blowing cash left and right on things that they shouldn't be in order to achieve some effect that said purchases are legitimately incapable of producing. It's not just Emperor's New Clothes, it's people actually spending money to see the emperor in his new clothes.


May I copy that in solid lead letters and frame it in a very large frame on the wall?


----------



## AtrafCreez

May I copy that in solid lead letters and frame it in a very large frame on the wall?


----------



## Detectit (Oct 5, 2019)

So after some miles on the KZ ZSX. I find them still great... Kbear balanced cables on it and on the MI9 real ChiFI setup.

With pop music, easy listening and hiphop the ZSX really shines.

IMO they are not great IEM's for electronic dance music. It sounds sometimes a bit too artificial/electronic.... The bass is so much on the foreground and with the clear highs some complex parts it gets a bit messy. Hard to explain...

Example: These are the times Martin Garrix

Curious what other members think about that.


----------



## Slater (Oct 5, 2019)

KPzypher said:


> I'll preface this post by saying "YMMV (greatly)" and "It's just my opinion."
> 
> After dabbling in so called HI-fi/summit-fi portable gear for a while, just picked up a second pair of KZs (ZSX) for the heck of it and it sounds................. "really good."
> 
> ...



Well said; so very true.

I mean, right now I’m relaxing and enjoying some music on $20 TW Bluetooth earphones as I type this, as I sit in a room surrounded by thousands of $$ worth of audio gear lol

I often think too many people are like this guy:



It’s about the music, folks!

Don’t get so OCD obsessed with the minute technical details (FR graphs, 6N vs 7N cables, gold vs rhodium plating, magical snake oil stickers, unicorn crystals, and quantum dimension space balls) that you lose sight of why you’re supposed to be using this gear in the 1st place.

I get a smile on my face every time I pull out and fire up my $3 KZ EDR1. The reason? It’s the way they make me feel, and how they connect me with my favorite music


----------



## ShakyJake

KPzypher said:


> I'll preface this post by saying "YMMV (greatly)" and "It's just my opinion."
> 
> After dabbling in so called HI-fi/summit-fi portable gear for a while, just picked up a second pair of KZs (ZSX) for the heck of it and it sounds................. "really good."
> 
> ...





Slater said:


> Well said; so very true.
> 
> ....]
> 
> ...



It's whatever puts a smile on your face and makes you tap your toes along to (In my case "Jungleland" by Bruce Springsteen as I write this). The gear just fades in the background.


----------



## Coldheart29

ShakyJake said:


> It's whatever puts a smile on your face and makes you tap your toes along to (In my case "Jungleland" by Bruce Springsteen as I write this). The gear just fades in the background.


Well, for some people it's stuff that costs 3k+ that puts a smile on their faces, to each his own.

Also, good for us. They buy it when it's expensive, so that new technology can trickle down to less expensive stuff for people more strapped for cash .


----------



## DynamicEars

ShakyJake said:


> Thanks for the review. I very much appreciate the comparison (including the graphs!) with TRN V90 and Blon BL-03. All three are current favorites around here with slightly different strengths.
> 
> Some have claimed that the V90 is more V-shaped than the ZSX, but your graph does not really show that.
> 
> ...





darmanastartes said:


> I would say it is but not by a ton.



The V90 indeed slightly more v shape than ZSX but not by much. ZSX have forwarded mids and more musical, more balanced overall while V90 indeed sounds smoother, with more textured bass, slightly clearer overall, with more high emphasized.
To date, I still cant mention which one are better, they are really on par / tie just with different pros and cons.

@darmanastartes Nice review brother, I heard mostly similar to your review even with comparison with BLON BL-03 and V90, except on sound separation and micro details part, I heard ZSX has better one, by close margin. Some details in tracks more easily heard in ZSX but presentation in V90 is smoother. Good job and thanks for the graphs.

Btw i modded my ZSX a little bit, with very soft density foam, as a damper, very thin one. Made the ZSX less edgy now without losing details.


----------



## courierdriver

+1


Slater said:


> Well said; so very true.
> 
> I mean, right now I’m relaxing and enjoying some music on $20 TW Bluetooth earphones as I type this, as I sit in a room surrounded by thousands of $$ worth of audio gear lol
> 
> ...


+1! You don't have to spend massive amounts of $ to enjoy your music. No chance in hell, I'd EVER drop a grand or more on a single set of iems. Not when I can own a variety of less expensive sets that give the sound I want from the genres I like, at 10% or less of the cost.


----------



## courierdriver

ShakyJake said:


> It's whatever puts a smile on your face and makes you tap your toes along to (In my case "Jungleland" by Bruce Springsteen as I write this). The gear just fades in the background.


Got my ZS10 PRO pumping up some Reggae/dance club. Shaggy, Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson, SOS Band, Gap Band, Atlantic Starr, Earth Wind & Fire. Having fun and just getting into the tunes.


----------



## Seazer (Oct 6, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> The V90 indeed slightly more v shape than ZSX but not by much. ZSX have forwarded mids and more musical, more balanced overall while V90 indeed sounds smoother, with more textured bass, slightly clearer overall, with more high emphasized.
> To date, I still cant mention which one are better, they are really on par / tie just with different pros and cons.
> 
> @darmanastartes Nice review brother, I heard mostly similar to your review even with comparison with BLON BL-03 and V90, except on sound separation and micro details part, I heard ZSX has better one, by close margin. Some details in tracks more easily heard in ZSX but presentation in V90 is smoother. Good job and thanks for the graphs.
> ...


I find using the Sony MH755 tips (basically Sony hybrid) helps do something similar. It is very narrow bore, which usually muffles most iems a bit, but it synergizes very well with the ZSX. Any amount of edge that was present goes away with no loss in detail. I like them more than the spinfits on them


----------



## lushblush (Oct 6, 2019)

are zs10 pros a solid upgrade from a regular zsn? i got the zsn's for only $17 and not only do i dig the looks, they are easily the best fitting iems i've ever tried on so the zs10 pros having the same exact shell has me really interested...

from what i'm understanding, the zsn's are a bit more neutral but i am looking for something a bit more fun without having too much treble. i listen to pretty much every music but mainly psychedelic pop/rock (tame impala, temples, mild high club, etc). should i buy the zs10 pros for $50?


----------



## baskingshark

lushblush said:


> are zs10 pros a solid upgrade from a regular zsn? i got the zsn's for only $17 and not only do i dig the looks, they are easily the best fitting iems i've ever tried on so the zs10 pros having the same exact shell has me really interested...
> 
> from what i'm understanding, the zsn's are a bit more neutral but i am looking for something a bit more fun without having too much treble. i listen to pretty much every music but mainly psychedelic pop/rock (tame impala, temples, mild high club, etc). should i buy the zs10 pros for $50?



Yeah the ZS10 pros are upgrades over the ZSN. But the recently released ZSX seems to be an upgrade over the ZS10 pros from reviews (i don't have ZSX).

50 bucks is expensive for ZS10 Pro. I've seen it at 35 - 40 usd usually. There's also a big aliexpress sale coming on 11/11 if u can wait, prices will drop.


----------



## PhonoPhi

lushblush said:


> are zs10 pros a solid upgrade from a regular zsn? i got the zsn's for only $17 and not only do i dig the looks, they are easily the best fitting iems i've ever tried on so the zs10 pros having the same exact shell has me really interested...
> 
> from what i'm understanding, the zsn's are a bit more neutral but i am looking for something a bit more fun without having too much treble. i listen to pretty much every music but mainly psychedelic pop/rock (tame impala, temples, mild high club, etc). should i buy the zs10 pros for $50?


+1 for ZSX, as an optimal upgrade along the lines of ZS10 pro and more treble safe. (I have CCA C12 - a close relative of ZSX that I very much enjoy).


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> I find using the Sony MH755 tips (basically Sony hybrid) helps do something similar. It is very narrow bore, which usually muffles most iems a bit, but it synergizes very well with the ZSX. Any amount of edge that was present goes away with no loss in detail. I like them more than the spinfits on them



MH755 have nice fit and does well to me too, but this narrow bore made mid bass a bit bloated, maybe not too much audible with zsx but it does. Spinfit also never works good for me, and it made higher notes more pronounced. If you have MH755, open the nozzle guard (like a paper) and take out that sponge damper, put inside the ZSX and use wide bore or KZ starline if you dont have wide bore (Im using spiral dots). They will sounds much smoother on edges, lower highs will be safe even on higher volumes (and it wont sacrifice your MH755 without that sponge dampers, or cut the dampers into 2 pieces each, 1 for MH755 1 for ZSX)
Trust me, Sony's biggest founding on their audio R&D division is that SPONGE. they still using it on $1500 M9 and M7 and maybe Z1R, which made my M7 very very smooth. Thats why I suggest someone with Audiosense T800 to try this but so far no feedback yet.



lushblush said:


> are zs10 pros a solid upgrade from a regular zsn? i got the zsn's for only $17 and not only do i dig the looks, they are easily the best fitting iems i've ever tried on so the zs10 pros having the same exact shell has me really interested...
> 
> from what i'm understanding, the zsn's are a bit more neutral but i am looking for something a bit more fun without having too much treble. i listen to pretty much every music but mainly psychedelic pop/rock (tame impala, temples, mild high club, etc). should i buy the zs10 pros for $50?



NO. just by ZSX which are an upgrade  to steely ZS10 Pro, and definitely much much better in every aspect than regular ZSN. I have all ZSN, ZS10 PRO and ZSX. ZSX cost around $42


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> MH755 have nice fit and does well to me too, but this narrow bore made mid bass a bit bloated, maybe not too much audible with zsx but it does. Spinfit also never works good for me, and it made higher notes more pronounced. If you have MH755, open the nozzle guard (like a paper) and take out that sponge damper, put inside the ZSX and use wide bore or KZ starline if you dont have wide bore (Im using spiral dots). They will sounds much smoother on edges, lower highs will be safe even on higher volumes (and it wont sacrifice your MH755 without that sponge dampers, or cut the dampers into 2 pieces each, 1 for MH755 1 for ZSX)
> Trust me, Sony's biggest founding on their audio R&D division is that SPONGE. they still using it on $1500 M9 and M7 and maybe Z1R, which made my M7 very very smooth. Thats why I suggest someone with Audiosense T800 to try this but so far no feedback yet.



Does this sony sponge mod make the details less? I'm assuming it does since it lowers the treble peak? 
A lot of older generation CHIFI are tuned with a 2 - 4khz peak to give a false sense of increased details. But lately some of their well tuned releases seem to have lowered the 3khz peak but still maintain good details, similar to some TOTL western tuning.


----------



## DynamicEars (Oct 6, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Does this sony sponge mod make the details less? I'm assuming it does since it lowers the treble peak?
> A lot of older generation CHIFI are tuned with a 2 - 4khz peak to give a false sense of increased details. But lately some of their well tuned releases seem to have lowered the 3khz peak but still maintain good details, similar to some TOTL western tuning.



If you take a look on Sony TOTL tuning, the new ones like M7 M9 Z1R, they have 3khz dip (even from EX1000 era actually) and this sponge is their key i think for the smoothness of highs. They even put them inside MH755. The sponge is very soft sponge but with a lot of cavities, so all the details still came through, but the harshness will be tamed down. They maybe do dampened slight details but with the smoothness they are very worth. I mean like Sony, maybe they tuned the details slightly over more than what they should be heard, to be adjusted with the sponge later. That why i feel this is quite good solution for T800, to learn from sony.
Just go to Daiso, buy kids toys, a capsule sponge with dinosaurs or animal shape, they looked like capsules, but they melted with hot water and sponge animal popped out from there. Thats exactly the sponge used as dampers, soft density with lots of cavities, dont use solid sponge. I know Singapore got Daiso. I bought ones for my kids when in Japan last year but maybe they have in daiso singapore. I dont have the packaging but i still have the sponge animals. Will post up picture later in this post.


 

Dont mess with the silliness of animal sponge, they are 1 of greatest invention in audio world.

Just use a very small and thin cut of this kind of sponge for dampers


----------



## Seazer

DynamicEars said:


> MH755 have nice fit and does well to me too, but this narrow bore made mid bass a bit bloated, maybe not too much audible with zsx but it does. Spinfit also never works good for me, and it made higher notes more pronounced. If you have MH755, open the nozzle guard (like a paper) and take out that sponge damper, put inside the ZSX and use wide bore or KZ starline if you dont have wide bore (Im using spiral dots). They will sounds much smoother on edges, lower highs will be safe even on higher volumes (and it wont sacrifice your MH755 without that sponge dampers, or cut the dampers into 2 pieces each, 1 for MH755 1 for ZSX)
> Trust me, Sony's biggest founding on their audio R&D division is that SPONGE. they still using it on $1500 M9 and M7 and maybe Z1R, which made my M7 very very smooth. Thats why I suggest someone with Audiosense T800 to try this but so far no feedback yet.
> 
> 
> ...


Luckily I have 2 pairs of Mh755 so I'll take the foams out of one of them and try it. Personally I don't mind the slight mid bass boost on the ZSX specifically with those tips, but I will try your method


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> Luckily I have 2 pairs of Mh755 so I'll take the foams out of one of them and try it. Personally I don't mind the slight mid bass boost on the ZSX specifically with those tips, but I will try your method



yes please and report back, they should sounds smooth, no harsh edges without losing details, and turn up your volumes. OH nice, just try with 1 your MH755 then. Waiting for your impressions


----------



## Seazer

DynamicEars said:


> yes please and report back, they should sounds smooth, no harsh edges without losing details, and turn up your volumes. OH nice, just try with 1 your MH755 then. Waiting for your impressions


I gotta say it sounds really good. But am I doing it right? I feel like the foam is gonna fall out into my ears haha. Also the foam is smaller than the nozzle opening


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> I gotta say it sounds really good. But am I doing it right? I feel like the foam is gonna fall out into my ears haha. Also the foam is smaller than the nozzle opening




Hey put back the nozzle grill.. youre doing right, and yeah actually MH755 sponge is smaller in diameter that why im using that animal sponge, but basically is the same effect. And try to turn up your volume now, they should be sound smooth,, as smooth as V90 rright? without losing the details.


----------



## Seazer

I realizedrealiz


DynamicEars said:


> Hey put back the nozzle grill.. youre doing right, and yeah actually MH755 sponge is smaller in diameter that why im using that animal sponge, but basically is the same effect. And try to turn up your volume now, they should be sound smooth,, as smooth as V90 rright? without losing the details.


They definitely sound smoother,  and I can turn the volume up louder. You lose a little bit of crispness though. I'll keep it like this for a while and see how I like it. Personally I don't even like the V90 very much haha


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> I realizedrealiz
> 
> They definitely sound smoother,  and I can turn the volume up louder. You lose a little bit of crispness though. I'll keep it like this for a while and see how I like it. Personally I don't even like the V90 very much haha



Yes with louder volume, you can hear more details without harshness. Losing crispness just by a little bit compared to much better smoothness is not a problem right. You can try to reduce amount of the sponge to your desire level of smoothness / compensation with crispness of course. You can buy similar sponge if you can find one.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use the little middle bits from earbud foams


----------



## Seazer

DynamicEars said:


> Yes with louder volume, you can hear more details without harshness. Losing crispness just by a little bit compared to much better smoothness is not a problem right. You can try to reduce amount of the sponge to your desire level of smoothness / compensation with crispness of course. You can buy similar sponge if you can find one.


I'll keep the sponge in at least until my spiral dots arrive


----------



## DynamicEars

HungryPanda said:


> I use the little middle bits from earbud foams


 

Actually the earbuds foam have more density than the one in sony iems, so they will muffle the sound more. As attached, the left foam from animal sponge is less in density, with more holes / cavities.
Its been a long journey too for me to find the sponge, and just accidentally found this kind of sponge (and very weird i found them in my kids toys), and for me they seems worked the best to date, smoothen the edges without losing details, or almost unaudible lost in crispness / details.


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> Actually the earbuds foam have more density than the one in sony iems, so they will muffle the sound more. As attached, the left foam from animal sponge is less in density, with more holes / cavities.
> Its been a long journey too for me to find the sponge, and just accidentally found this kind of sponge (and very weird i found them in my kids toys), and for me they seems worked the best to date, smoothen the edges without losing details, or almost unaudible lost in crispness / details.



Yeah I gotta give your sponge mod a try soon. I have seen these sponge animals in my kids' toy box, this is literally like taking sweets from a baby =(
Anyway @DynamicEars do u know which specific frequencies does this sponge mod affect? I don't have any measuring rigs on hand.


----------



## Hanzilein (Oct 6, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> Just go to Daiso, buy kids toys, a capsule sponge with dinosaurs or animal shape, they looked like capsules, but they melted with hot water and sponge animal popped out from there. Thats exactly the sponge used as dampers, soft density with lots of cavities, dont use solid sponge. I know Singapore got Daiso. I bought ones for my kids when in Japan last year but maybe they have in daiso singapore. I dont have the packaging but i still have the sponge animals. Will post up picture later in this post.



You can buy 'toys' like sponges in Japan? 
So if some IEMs sound a bit harsh, you put in the sponge?

Next time I come across a kids store here in Germany I have to look


----------



## DynamicEars (Oct 6, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> Yeah I gotta give your sponge mod a try soon. I have seen these sponge animals in my kids' toy box, this is literally like taking sweets from a baby =(
> Anyway @DynamicEars do u know which specific frequencies does this sponge mod affect? I don't have any measuring rigs on hand.



I cant answer exactly for the frequencies, but for sure it will tame the edge of 3khz above. It just made the edge smoother, like if the graph showing as sharp end, it will rounded them. Maybe push down a bit but just a very little. Sound will not much affected as youre using foam eartips.


*edit : hahaha no im not taking his sweets, he has grew up and dont play with that animal sponge anymore, so its not a harm, beside that i trade the animal sponge with much more expensive Lego


----------



## Seazer

DynamicEars said:


> Actually the earbuds foam have more density than the one in sony iems, so they will muffle the sound more. As attached, the left foam from animal sponge is less in density, with more holes / cavities.
> Its been a long journey too for me to find the sponge, and just accidentally found this kind of sponge (and very weird i found them in my kids toys), and for me they seems worked the best to date, smoothen the edges without losing details, or almost unaudible lost in crispness / details.


Is this how you get the  animal sponge?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjATegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3v5yHCakm8K_W1ezF56YUS


----------



## DynamicEars

Seazer said:


> Is this how you get the  animal sponge?
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjATegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3v5yHCakm8K_W1ezF56YUS



Exactly!!!! Thats the one!


----------



## Slater

Seazer said:


> Is this how you get the  animal sponge?
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjATegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3v5yHCakm8K_W1ezF56YUS



You can get them at any dollar store for $0.49-$0.99 (ie pound land in UK). I've even seen them for $0.25. You can also get them on Aliexpress.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

ALL ABOARD THE SPONGE HYPE TRAIN!


----------



## Seazer

Slater said:


> You can get them at any dollar store for $0.49-$0.99 (ie pound land in UK). I've even seen them for $0.25. You can also get them on Aliexpress.


Yeah I'm gonna check my local 99 Cents Only Store


----------



## Seazer

BadReligionPunk said:


> ALL ABOARD THE SPONGE HYPE TRAIN!


I'M UGLY AND I'M PROUD!


----------



## DynamicEars (Oct 6, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> ALL ABOARD THE SPONGE HYPE TRAIN!



LOL! I will laugh if everyone are suddenly buying animal sponge as the next hype. BTW it is nice for iems that have harshness, edgy, or sibilance, or bright highs. For already smooth iem they dont need this, for example BLON BL-03, maybe they already have damper inside, I havent check yet and didnt bothered to check.
But usually a lot of budget iems sound harsh and have edginess. bqeyz is 1 exception in budget iems with BLON (because maybe already have sponge inside). But for KZ they are very helpful


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Oct 6, 2019)

Yup. Toy sponge manufacturing is ramping up. This sector has seen rapid decline over the past few years, but for some unknown reason is expected to grow an est. 125% YOY.


We may need to have our own Sponge thread here where we can discuss spongy related stuff? :laugh:


----------



## Makahl

DynamicEars said:


> LOL! I will laugh if everyone suddenly buying animal sponge as the next hype. Btw it nice for iems that have harshness, edgy, or sibilance, or bright highs. FOr already smooth iem they dont need this*, for example BLON BL-03, maybe they already have damper inside*, I havent check yet and didnt bothered to check.



Oh, I checked it some days ago and Blons don't have any damper material inside the nozzle. However, the screen grill has an acoustic cloth similar to nylon which certainly has some acoustic propriety to smooth the peaks. If you replace the filter for a simple mesh it'll sound considerably brighter. And... my 3M micropore filter considerably darker which gives a bass-head vibe.


----------



## DynamicEars

Makahl said:


> Oh, I checked it some days ago and Blons don't have any damper material inside the nozzle. However, the screen grill has an acoustic cloth similar to nylon which certainly has some acoustic propriety to smooth the peaks. If you replace the filter for a simple mesh it'll sound considerably brighter. And... my 3M micropore filter considerably darker which gives a bass-head vibe.



Thanks for the info, yes 3M micropore made overall darker, because they are too solid, pores are not big enough, they muffle the mids-highs area. Maybe i should try mesh grill + animal sponge on the BLON someday, but it will be a hassle for me to get exactly same size nozzle grill for BL-03.


----------



## Makahl

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for the info, yes 3M micropore made overall darker, because they are too solid, pores are not big enough, they muffle the mids-highs area. Maybe i should try mesh grill + animal sponge on the BLON someday, but it will be a hassle for me to get exactly same size nozzle grill for BL-03.



+1. But you can poke a hole to decrease the damping and the mid/highs get "on point" again.


Spoiler


----------



## DynamicEars

Makahl said:


> +1. But you can poke a hole to decrease the damping and the mid/highs get "on point" again.
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Been doing that actually for past iems, still i found animal sponge worked the best for me, as the flow of the sound not only coming from 1 hole (thinking of wide bore vs small bore). But thank you for that, appreciate it!


----------



## Coldheart29

Hmm, will have to try out this sponge mod on my ZSTs, would be really nice to have a bit of damping in that pesky 3-4khz area.


----------



## Slater

Coldheart29 said:


> Hmm, will have to try out this sponge mod on my ZSTs, would be really nice to have a bit of damping in that pesky 3-4khz area.



This is all you need for the ZST:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> This is all you need for the ZST:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650



+1 yeah right.. 

or just use the Animal Sponge Mod


----------



## KipNix

Slater said:


> . You can also get them on Aliexpress.


Slater, what do you think about these for the ZS3?


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> +1 yeah right..
> 
> or just use the Animal Sponge Mod



well, my mod specifically targets the treble BT controlling the 30095 BA. The animal sponge mod is in the whole nozzle, which will dampen the dynamic driver as well.


----------



## Slater

KipNix said:


> Slater, what do you think about these for the ZS3?



ZS3 already has foam in the nozzle, put there by KZ.

It doesn’t actually need dampening IMO; it needs *less* dampening! That’s why the ZS3 mod I came up with actually *removes* the foam that’s *already in* the nozzle. So adding more animal sponge foam (or replacing the stock foam with animal sponge foam) would make the ZS3 even darker and more muffled.


----------



## Coldheart29

Slater said:


> This is all you need for the ZST:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


Duly noted will try this as soon as i find the right foam.


----------



## AudioNoob (Oct 8, 2019)

Can someone test the mic on the kz table for crosstalk for me? Just play music at listening volume with the earphones in your ears and record to see if it records the music as well
This app will record without pausing music playback on android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.axet.audiorecorder&hl=en

So far I've tested 4-5 Aliexpress cables, they all had varying degrees of crosstalk, so does the final e2000

Thanks!


----------



## CYoung234

archdawg said:


> To me the Tin T2 are THE best proof that we all must hear very differently. Quite a few folks here seem to like their set a LOT but no matter what I tried (extended burn-in, tips, sources, cables) they sound distant and veiled to my ears with a very tight, limited soundstage and I feel disconnected from whatever track I run through them. I even bought a second pair to check but nope .... they're the only sets in my stash that make me feel that disconnected - I'd even pick the EDR1 over them, not to mention the MH755 - YMMV.



As a former professional brass player, I am also one of the few to not like the timbre of the Tin T2. There is a coloration in the lower mids, you guessed it, right where the trumpets and trombones are at. However, you might try removing the screens. When I did that, they improved a lot for me. Soundstage is still sort of small, though.


----------



## Ynot1

nappoler said:


> https://hifigo.com/products/kz-e10-...4dd-hybrid-10-driver-units-bt5-0-aptx-earbuds this KZ E10 TWS only $60 for pre-order



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...rchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_52

Any reviews yet?


----------



## Hawaiibadboy

Ynot1 said:


> Any reviews yet?





Not review yet but just finished training on a heavy bag  (Muay Thai) and they were secure and sound is great. Kinda sounds like ZS10 PRO


----------



## voicemaster

Hawaiibadboy said:


> Not review yet but just finished training on a heavy bag  (Muay Thai) and they were secure and sound is great. Kinda sounds like ZS10 PRO




Damn!! my wallet gonna hate me


----------



## DynamicEars

Hawaiibadboy said:


> Not review yet but just finished training on a heavy bag  (Muay Thai) and they were secure and sound is great. Kinda sounds like ZS10 PRO




Sounds like ZS10 Pro with shrilling metallic timbre or like ZSX? I love the design though, looked neat with matte - glossy  black combination. Looking forward for your reviews as always, and comparison with ZSX please


----------



## nuggetbro

Have a pair of the E10's in my ears right now. 

My first foray into the KZ headphones. I have Andromeda's, Tinaudio T2, Meeaudio P1 and a few others . 

Build - Feels good to me. The case feels a little rushed compared to my old Sony TWS (just not as high end feeling). They made a weird decision with the case to put the right headphone on the left and left on the right, so it messes with my brain a little when I put them in. Otherwise, the the earphones themselves feel good quality. There are no physical buttons on them (the case has a button for tethering). They did have a weird smell (probably from manufacturing). The earphone cases are made of a resin, which feels nice, but is new to me (my other earphones tend to be plastic or metal). 

Audio - They sound great to me. The bass is pronounced a little compared to Andromeda, but I think the soundstage is wider then the Meeaudio P1. If you told me I could get this sort of audio quality out of TWS, I wouldn't believe you. I am playing through samsung audio on my phone, and the music is stuff I have collected over the years (not flac, but good quality MP3). 

They are super loud as well, with them being loud enough to block out the office noises at about 70%. 

Connection - Seems ok, but I have had 2-3 connection drops on one of the ear pieces (the phone is only a foot away from me) but I am in an office with lots of noise (as in bluetooth, microwave, wifi etc..). 

Otherwise they are better then my Sony's by a lot. They drop out all the time unfortunately. 

Microphone - Solid. Had a couple of calls already and people said I was clear. The real test is outside, which I will do later. 

Battery - Hadn't had a chance yet, but it appears it is inside the little danglely pieces that sit behind your years, because they felt warm after 15-20 mins of use. Not noticeable to my ears, but in my hand I could feel it. 

I will continue playing and will update if any show stoppers or major issues.


----------



## linkzex

when people refer to kz starline tips, are the ones that come with kz zsx starline tips? (not the single pair installed, the ones in a small pack)


----------



## baskingshark

linkzex said:


> when people refer to kz starline tips, are the ones that come with kz zsx starline tips? (not the single pair installed, the ones in a small pack)



KZ starlines is just a nickname someone on headfi came up with for the KZ stock tips that come with their IEMs and it stuck.


----------



## linkzex

baskingshark said:


> KZ starlines is just a nickname someone on headfi came up with for the KZ stock tips that come with their IEMs and it stuck.


good to know, thank you


----------



## mbwilson111

linkzex said:


> when people refer to kz starline tips, are the ones that come with kz zsx starline tips? (not the single pair installed, the ones in a small pack)



The ones that look like they have little notches around the opening.


----------



## AudioNoob

AudioNoob said:


> Can someone test the mic on the kz table for crosstalk for me? Just play music at listening volume with the earphones in your ears and record to see if it records the music as well
> This app will record without pausing music playback on android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.axet.audiorecorder&hl=en
> 
> So far I've tested 4-5 Aliexpress cables, they all had varying degrees of crosstalk, so does the final e2000
> ...



Y'all buried this with e10 posts. Could anyone help me out with this?


----------



## archdawg

CYoung234 said:


> As a former professional brass player, I am also one of the few to not like the timbre of the Tin T2. There is a coloration in the lower mids, you guessed it, right where the trumpets and trombones are at. However, you might try removing the screens. When I did that, they improved a lot for me. Soundstage is still sort of small, though.


I started playing piano aged three and had a short intermezzo with a trumpet (& a well equipped home studio for decades, blah blah ...) so maybe I have some sort of idea what these instruments are supposed to sound like and I really don't get the fuss about the **** (and some others) either, tonally and spatially, but hey ... sometimes it's just for the fun (EDM) and that's what I mainly got my cheapos for. OTOH some of them, like e.g. the R...n... QT5, MH755 or especially the Blons leave some of my more expensive IEMs or cans in the dust here and there, pretty amazing what you can get for 25€ or even less these days.
PS: thanks for the reminder to remove the screens, did that not too long after I got my T2 but it didn't help much to bond with these critters either.


----------



## 1clearhead

linkzex said:


> when people refer to kz starline tips, are the ones that come with kz zsx starline tips? (not the single pair installed, the ones in a small pack)


Correct! Not the ones installed, but the ones that come in a small pack inside the KZ box.


----------



## Keputs

I have a question here and I hope somebody can help.

I recently bought a kbear 16core QDC cable for my ZSX. However, something seems amiss with the cable pin and iem orientation.

The pins have the L and R guide and so do the ZSX. But, used to the pin directions facing outward, it only fits the curvature of the preformed hook if I plug in the L to the R and vice versa. See attached image.

It doesn't seem to have an effect on the sound and it does fit securely but does it have an actual effect and can it damage my iem or cable? Thanks guys


----------



## Keputs

Keputs said:


> I have a question here and I hope somebody can help.
> 
> I recently bought a kbear 16core QDC cable for my ZSX. However, something seems amiss with the cable pin and iem orientation.
> 
> ...



I'm Ok now guys. Found the answer in one obscure japanese blog about "Kinboofi" (so that's what KB is) and I got it all wrong. 

Everything sounds good again. Now back to regular programming.


----------



## zr0dfx

Keputs said:


> I'm Ok now guys. Found the answer in one obscure japanese blog about "Kinboofi" (so that's what KB is) and I got it all wrong.
> 
> Everything sounds good again. Now back to regular programming.


How did you sort it?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Keputs said:


> I'm Ok now guys. Found the answer in one obscure japanese blog about "Kinboofi" (so that's what KB is) and I got it all wrong.
> 
> Everything sounds good again. Now back to regular programming.



KB ears is Kobe Bryant Ears and not Kinboofi. The owner is a huge Kobe fan. Sounds silly but true


----------



## mbwilson111

Dani157 said:


> KB ears is Kobe Bryant Ears and not Kinboofi. The owner is a huge Kobe fan. Sounds silly but true



Wait..what?  I always thought you were joking.  Surely you are?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

mbwilson111 said:


> Wait..what?  I always thought you were joking.  Surely you are?



I'm not. There's a post from Clear which states that. It's a mindbender

Edit - link to the post https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15070147/


----------



## voicemaster

mbwilson111 said:


> Wait..what?  I always thought you were joking.  Surely you are?



Looking at my BLON bl03 box, anything is possible in China lol. I am not even surprised anymore.


----------



## mbwilson111

Dani157 said:


> I'm not. There's a post from Clear which states that. It's a mindbender



Well then, surely he was joking.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

mbwilson111 said:


> Well then, surely he was joking.



Well he got that information from Wendy via email! I find Kobe cooler than Kinboofi! Lol. Although, anything is possible in Chi-fi so I wouldn't be surprised


----------



## Makahl (Oct 10, 2019)

edit OT


----------



## Slater (Oct 10, 2019)

Supposedly, the Kobe name thing is the truth, but I am personally a little bit skeptical.

It could really stand for something else, like the owner’s initials, Kinboofi, or some other explanation (and they just don’t want people to know the truth for some odd reason).

At the end of the day though, I really don’t care about the name; only the sound.

Look at all the other goofy names we see in ChiFi - MEGIVEZ, MEBUYZ, Semkarch, BGVP, BQEYZ, The Fragrant Zither, BLON, etc.

Winner Chicken Dinner has to top them all, though:
https://penonaudio.com/winner-iems.html
https://penonaudio.com/winner-iems.html




As voicemaster said, nothing surprises me anymore lol


----------



## nraymond

Slater said:


> At the end of the day though, I really don’t care about the name...



If you were buying automotive parts on AliExpress, you'd find some products that would challenge that stance I think:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32768255501.html


----------



## 1clearhead

Dani157 said:


> KB ears is Kobe Bryant Ears and not Kinboofi. The owner is a huge Kobe fan. Sounds silly but true


Yup! According to Wendy from KB, which has direct contact with me told me that the owner of KB is a big Kobe Bryant fan and used the initials for KB to start off his products. Whether if it's true or not, who ever says otherwise, they can take it up with the KB company. I don't want to be in between...I just write reviews.
So, fingers-crossed, honestly I had nothing to do with it!


----------



## 1clearhead (Oct 10, 2019)

...Many Chinese people in China are basketball fans! They really tune-in to watch the NBA and watch their favorite teams play often. I'm from Philly, and many still love the likings of Michael Jordan and even Allen Iverson, for that matter.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> Supposedly, the Kobe name thing is the truth, but I am personally a little bit skeptical.
> 
> It could really stand for something else, like the owner’s initials, Kinboofi, or some other explanation (and they just don’t want people to know the truth for some odd reason).
> 
> ...



Damn how cool is that!!


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Damn how cool is that!!



Believe it or not, HBB reviewed them and he actually said they were surprisingly good. Why the stupid name that no one would take seriously is beyond me.


----------



## HungryPanda (Oct 10, 2019)

It's a well known phrase in England "winner, winner, chicken dinner" but supposedly originated in Las Vegas


----------



## illwafer

I have the KZ ZSX and love them. I've got the tips figured out, and now would like to get a better cable that comes with a mic (bonus for volume up/down buttons too). Can anyone recommend something of the sort? I've searched far and wide, and can't seem to find anything decent besides the cables w/o mic.

Thanks!


----------



## pbui44

Slater said:


> Believe it or not, HBB reviewed them and he actually said they were surprisingly good. Why the stupid name that no one would take seriously is beyond me.



I am developing a Chi-Fi company called “BloMeeh”.


----------



## alex5908 (Oct 10, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> I wont hesitate to say that too. Best KZ to date = ZSX. period.


Tastes differ. As for me I regret buying them. ZS7 sound much better for me. By all means/parameters at that. But again - IMO.


----------



## alex5908

DynamicEars said:


> sub bass-mid bass proportion and tuning, details, separation, air, etc go to ZSX.


Sub-bass and mid-bass are not enough for me quantitatively and by quality.
TFZ MLE is way better. Sorry for the offtop.


----------



## rayliam80

Keputs said:


> I have a question here and I hope somebody can help.
> 
> I recently bought a kbear 16core QDC cable for my ZSX. However, something seems amiss with the cable pin and iem orientation.
> 
> ...



Did you paint the shells of your ZSX? I have not seen them in black....


----------



## DynamicEars

alex5908 said:


> Tastes differ. As for me I regret buying them. ZS7 sound much better for me. By all means/parameters at that. But again - IMO.





alex5908 said:


> Sub-bass and mid-bass are not enough for me quantitatively and by quality.
> TFZ MLE is way better. Sorry for the offtop.



technically ZSX maybe better one, but that comes down to personal preferences, while someone prefer balanced one, from my opinion you just are a basshead so thus ZSX cant satisfy your needs. Cheers


----------



## DynamicEars

rayliam80 said:


> Did you paint the shells of your ZSX? I have not seen them in black....



I think its just the angle of the light/shadow that perceived like darker shades of grey shell cover


----------



## alex5908 (Oct 11, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> you just are a basshead


You're absolutely right. I AM a basshead. To me ZSX sound lifeless. There's no drive. The key word is "to me".
What might be "better technically" in ZSX, compared to ZS7, you think?


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> Supposedly, the Kobe name thing is the truth, but I am personally a little bit skeptical.
> 
> It could really stand for something else, like the owner’s initials, Kinboofi, or some other explanation (and they just don’t want people to know the truth for some odd reason).
> 
> ...



that would be a good present for my PUBG loving nephews


----------



## voicemaster

alex5908 said:


> You're absolutely right. I AM a basshead. To me ZSX sound lifeless. There's no drive. The key word is "to me".
> What might be better technically in ZSX you think?



Andromeda? Solaris? U18T?


----------



## DynamicEars

alex5908 said:


> You're absolutely right. I AM a basshead. To me ZSX sound lifeless. There's no drive. The key word is "to me".
> What might be better technically in ZSX you think?



I dont personally have the ZS7 but I've heard them and read about ZS7 a lot, ZSX more like a direct upgrade from ZS10 Pro, separation, more forward mids, soundstage, details.
I see, maybe the V shaped ones will satisfy you more. Try TRN v90 then.



voicemaster said:


> Andromeda? Solaris? U18T?



I think he meant what it better in ZSX than in ZS7, you can answer that too since you have both buddy


----------



## emeraldstone

illwafer said:


> I have the KZ ZSX and love them. I've got the tips figured out, and now would like to get a better cable that comes with a mic (bonus for volume up/down buttons too). Can anyone recommend something of the sort? I've searched far and wide, and can't seem to find anything decent besides the cables w/o mic.
> 
> Thanks!


I've only seen mic cables that are bluetooth and the 2-pin Paragraph-C type cable is still a fairly new connector standard compared to other connectors like MMCX. Usually users would opt for a non-mic cable as it minimizes the cable resistance, which can sometimes help with the sound. I just have a stock KZ cable with mic (in case i really need to use the mic) along with a gold-silver mixed cable.


----------



## alex5908

voicemaster said:


> Andromeda? Solaris? U18T?


 These are from different price categories.


----------



## alex5908 (Oct 11, 2019)

DynamicEars said:


> I see, maybe the V shaped ones will satisfy you more.


ZSXs are not any better than ZS7 as far as the mids are concerned. As well as "separation,  soundstage, details".
Could you share a link where they say/write that ZS7 are V-shaped?


----------



## alex5908

DynamicEars said:


> I think he meant what it better in ZSX than in ZS7


Exactly.


----------



## alex5908 (Oct 11, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Andromeda?


I understand Andromeda can't be compared to ZS7 but still... What do you think is much better in Andromeda? I don't mean "taste difference" (if you understand what I mean by that) but real difference.
Like if you give a person who is not an audiophile to compare Andromeda and ZS7.


----------



## DynamicEars

alex5908 said:


> ZSXs are not any better than ZS7 as far as the mids are concerned. As well as "separation,  soundstage, details".
> Could you share a link where they say/write that ZS7 are V-shaped?



OK so like I said I dont have ZS7 and I only have ZS10 Pro, and I've read in this thread that for some people ZS10 Pro still technically better, only they have metallic sounding. And for people have ZS10 Pro and ZSX, most of the people will tell that ZSX are better technically. So just take with grain of salt if youre happy with your ZS7 so then ZS7 it is. ZS7 clearly have bigger and slamming bass, its a an old story with comparison with ZS10 Pro and ZSX bass is more or less in same level with ZSX. Mids on ZS7 definitely sound further away than ZSX right? and the FR graph also shows that.



alex5908 said:


> I understand Andromeda can't be compared to ZS7 but still... What do you think is much better in Andromeda? I don't mean "taste difference" (if you understand what I mean by that) but real difference.
> Like if you give a person who is not audiophile to compare Andromeda and ZS7.



Of course they are different, like Andros using knowles BAs, sounded more mature, more smooth, resolution also different, clarity, decay, soundstage, micro details, etc. I wish I could hear as a people who cant differentiate though, so I can enjoy cheap IEM and be happy.


----------



## Keputs

rayliam80 said:


> Did you paint the shells of your ZSX? I have not seen them in black....



No I did not paint it. That IS the black variant. Then there are the Cyan and purple models


----------



## rayliam80

Keputs said:


> No I did not paint it. That IS the black variant. Then there are the Cyan and purple models



I think it was just the lighting when I saw your pic or that it looked darker on my phone. I was excited for a black ZSX faceplate. But it is not to be.


----------



## alex5908

Now by the piece of advice from a Russian forum I scotch taped the compensation openings on ZSX. The bass is a little better now. Almost acceptable for me.


----------



## gazzington

I do think the gap from low price chi fi to the £1500 stuff is getting closer. You probably get like 10% better sound with the expensive stuff. Probably not worth it for most people


----------



## alex5908

gazzington said:


> You probably get like 10% better sound with the expensive stuff.


Just 10 percent?!
Then it's not worth it at all.
Besides, phyisiologically the majority of people will not enjoy high frequencies after reaching 40. Compared to younger people of course.


----------



## gazzington

alex5908 said:


> Just 10 percent?!
> Then it's not worth it at all.
> Besides, phyisiologically the majority of people will not enjoy high frequencies after reaching 40. Compared to younger people of course.


This is the thing. I'm 41 now and I'm not hearing high frequencies as well as I used too so I'm questioning the point of high end iems in my case.  I can have lots of different cheaper one with different sound signature to suit my mood on a particular day. At the moment I'm really enjoying the blon 03


----------



## alex5908 (Oct 11, 2019)

gazzington said:


> I'm 41 now


Ha-ha, I am 20 years older but still after checking/testing my hearing my Otolaryngologist  said  that my hearing ability is that of a 40 year old.


----------



## gazzington

alex5908 said:


> Ha-ha, I am 20 years older but still my Otolaryngologist after checking/testing my hearing said that my hearing ability is that of a 40 year old.


Matter of interest, what's your favourite iem?


----------



## alex5908 (Oct 11, 2019)

gazzington said:


> Matter of interest, what's your favourite iem?


I am not sure if you heard of those but they are Sendiy M1221 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32757009502.html). Number two is TFZ MyLove Edition 2019.
Number three is KZ ZS7.
I give them the preference over my Sony XBA Z5 which are 2/8/10 accordingly times *(?!*) more expensive.


----------



## alex5908 (Oct 11, 2019)

gazzington said:


> what's your favourite iem?


See above.
And yours?


----------



## gazzington

alex5908 said:


> See above.
> And yours?


Between zeniths and fearless s8f. I'm really enjoying blon 03 at the moment thiugh


----------



## DynamicEars

gazzington said:


> I do think the gap from low price chi fi to the £1500 stuff is getting closer. You probably get like 10% better sound with the expensive stuff. Probably not worth it for most people



I agree, its the budget section that have been improving much recently. Still you cant judge ny dollar per performance, they are coming in a package and more higher tier, you pay a lot for the refinement.
I said before like cheap chinese car also have 4 wheels, same round steering wheel, they have windshield too, they have engine and all parts, so its like 90% of BMW right?
What differentiate them is refinement, R&D, luxury, better conponents, smoother experience, etc
In IEM world, that much money differents are on refinement, more mature sound, better a little in every aspect, and everything coming in 1 package.

For someone looking for great iem with great value no doubt they will choose the chifi. But for extreme audiophiles, your ears dont know your waller. They only know which one is better.


----------



## gazzington

DynamicEars said:


> I agree, its the budget section that have been improving much recently. Still you cant judge ny dollar per performance, they are coming in a package and more higher tier, you pay a lot for the refinement.
> I said before like cheap chinese car also have 4 wheels, same round steering wheel, they have windshield too, they have engine and all parts, so its like 90% of BMW right?
> What differentiate them is refinement, R&D, luxury, better conponents, smoother experience, etc
> In IEM world, that much money differents are on refinement, more mature sound, better a little in every aspect, and everything coming in 1 package.
> ...


I agree I just think my need for the absolute best sound has diminished. I have spent thousands on daps and I think I'm kind of ready to keep those but just buy different lower priced iems with sound signature for different moods


----------



## alex5908

I've extended the list by adding one more of my favourite IEMs above and compared them to Sony XBA Z5.


----------



## alex5908

gazzington said:


> I have spent thousands on daps and I think I'm kind of ready to keep those but just buy different lower priced iems with sound signature for different moods


What are your favorite ones?
Mine is Cayin N6. Now I enjoy Fiio M5. It's a little multi-function baby. But in out-of-doors condition you can't get much of a difference between these.
I compared it recently with L&P L3 (unbalanced) and the winner was M5 considering the amount of lows it produces. At a fraction of a price (compared to L3).


----------



## gazzington

alex5908 said:


> What are your favorite ones?
> Mine is Cayin N6. Now I enjoy Fiio M5. It's a little multi-function baby. But in out-of-doors condition you can't get much of a difference between these.
> I compared it recently with L&P L3 (unbalanced) and the winner was M5 considering the amount of lows it produces. At a fraction of a price (compared to L3).


The Cayin n8 is my favourite sounding and then the sp1000 and lpgt are tied.


----------



## Nimweth

alex5908 said:


> I am not sure if you heard of those but they are Sendiy M1221 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32757009502.html). Number two is TFZ MyLove Edition 2019.
> Number three is KZ ZS7.
> I give them the preference over my Sony XBA Z5 which are 2/8/10 accordingly times *(?!*) more expensive.


+1 for the ZS7, after some time with the ZSX, I still prefer the ZS7, especially with a silver plated cable and Spiral Dots.


----------



## Keputs (Oct 11, 2019)

rayliam80 said:


> I think it was just the lighting when I saw your pic or that it looked darker on my phone. I was excited for a black ZSX faceplate. But it is not to be.



Sorry I think I understand why it looked darker...I actually increased the contrast of the image so that the L indicator on the pin and the Right print on the iem would be more visible. Otherwise nobody would notice it. Just to emphasize my dilemma.

Anyways it's all good. Enjoy your music... whatever... however.


----------



## Keputs

Dani157 said:


> KB ears is Kobe Bryant Ears and not Kinboofi. The owner is a huge Kobe fan. Sounds silly but true



I would actually like it more if it's Kobe Bryant but with the way things are going on now between the NBA and China, I'd think the owner would vehemently deny that. LOL!


----------



## Keputs

zr0dfx said:


> How did you sort it?



while reading the Japanese blog about kbear 16core there were some accompanying images and, well, it perfectly illustrated that I was inserting it the wrong way. So, now I had the reference and peace of mind. Hahaha


----------



## zr0dfx

Keputs said:


> while reading the Japanese blog about kbear 16core there were some accompanying images and, well, it perfectly illustrated that I was inserting it the wrong way. So, now I had the reference and peace of mind. Hahaha


That’s good! I thought that’s what you were doing by the description. Glad you got it sorted in the end


----------



## KPzypher

DynamicEars said:


> I agree, its the budget section that have been improving much recently. Still you cant judge ny dollar per performance, they are coming in a package and more higher tier, you pay a lot for the refinement.
> I said before like cheap chinese car also have 4 wheels, same round steering wheel, they have windshield too, they have engine and all parts, so its like 90% of BMW right?
> What differentiate them is refinement, R&D, luxury, better conponents, smoother experience, etc
> In IEM world, that much money differents are on refinement, more mature sound, better a little in every aspect, and everything coming in 1 package.
> ...



Although I respect your opinion, it's simply not true in my opinion.  There are too many expensive IEMs that doesn't warrant it's high price tag.  The high end audiophile industry is driven by boutique companies, and there are just too many companies simply selling snake oils, because sound is mostly "subjective" and one can claim anything on the basis of subjectivism.  There also exists in abundance, head-fiers unnecessarily hyping products and fueling unfounded claims based on "personal preference and bias."  And you mentioned refinement, R&D, and better components.  R&D from a company with handful of guys pumping out IEMs every 3-4 months is largely insignificant.  And you have high end company using cheap off the shelf BAs in their top models, so you cannot claim all high end sets are using quality products.  Plenty of companies also use same resin type shells on their entire lineup with different colors perhaps with similar internals and charging customers in every price range.  Big companies like Sony are probably one of the few that allot meaningful resources in manpower and capital for so called "improvements."  Most boutique companies are charging exorbitant amount considering the overall cost of goods (product cost/R&D/etc), that simply cannot be justified.  They're getting away with murder because uninformed customers are willing to pay whatever price for an insignificant gain or simply  for what is only a difference in sound signatures.

Unless there is a standard way for a qauntifiable measurement of the quality of sound, it's all a "he said she said" game, largely based on personal bias.

As I've mentioned in my previous post, you're not missing much with a solid entry level IEMs.  But in the end, to each his/her own and whatever floats your boat I guess.

Enjoy your music.


----------



## illwafer

emeraldstone said:


> I've only seen mic cables that are bluetooth and the 2-pin Paragraph-C type cable is still a fairly new connector standard compared to other connectors like MMCX. Usually users would opt for a non-mic cable as it minimizes the cable resistance, which can sometimes help with the sound. I just have a stock KZ cable with mic (in case i really need to use the mic) along with a gold-silver mixed cable.



yeah that's my experience too. i just like the convenience of being able to change the track without digging out my phone. i listen a lot at the gym, on my bike, etc.


----------



## alex5908

KPzypher said:


> Enjoy your music.


I'd add "not just your gears".


----------



## archdawg

KPzypher said:


> As I've mentioned in my previous post, you're not missing much with a solid entry level IEMs. But in the end, to each his/her own and whatever floats your boat I guess.
> 
> Enjoy your music.



Exactly what I'm doing right now, enjoying a fantastic recording of Mozart's Violin Concerto KV218, through my trusty old magenta 12.50€ ZSN, unbalanced on the Sonata DAC. Not only that I'm really not missing too much from this combo; this particular batch of Bellsing 30095 does a pretty decent job with string instruments.


----------



## PhonoPhi

archdawg said:


> Exactly what I'm doing right now, enjoying a fantastic recording of Mozart's Violin Concerto KV218, through my trusty old magenta 12.50€ ZSN, unbalanced on the Sonata DAC. Not only that I'm really not missing too much from this combo; this particular batch of Bellsing 30095 does a pretty decent job with string instruments.


Exactly, for me 30095s are great for strings and do a better job than Knowles. Knowles are more dampened, and sound more refined, closer to DDs.


----------



## HungryPanda

Received the KZ E10's today and they are very efficient I can only get the volume of my Fiio X5iii to 6 on low gain and it is loud enough


----------



## jant71

HungryPanda said:


> Received the KZ E10's today and they are very efficient I can only get the volume of my Fiio X5iii to 6 on low gain and it is loud enough



What is the control scheme on these. Hopefully not another with three taps to do stuff or hold for volume. Deal breakers for me.


----------



## voicemaster

HungryPanda said:


> Received the KZ E10's today and they are very efficient I can only get the volume of my Fiio X5iii to 6 on low gain and it is loud enough



How's the sound?


----------



## HungryPanda

Sound good, better than I imagined. It's the usual touch stuff, 1 tap to pause music/play music or 1 click to answer call/hang up, long press on right to reject call. Double click right for previous song/double click left for next song.


----------



## shockdoc

HungryPanda said:


> Sound good, better than I imagined. It's the usual touch stuff, 1 tap to pause music/play music or 1 click to answer call/hang up, long press on right to reject call. Double click right for previous song/double click left for next song.



Can you change the volume? I'm seeing SO many newer TW IEM's that for some inexplicable reason you can't change the volume!


----------



## voicemaster

HungryPanda said:


> Sound good, better than I imagined. It's the usual touch stuff, 1 tap to pause music/play music or 1 click to answer call/hang up, long press on right to reject call. Double click right for previous song/double click left for next song.



What kz iem can it be compared to? ZSN or zs10pro or zs7?


----------



## voicemaster

shockdoc said:


> Can you change the volume? I'm seeing SO many newer TW IEM's that for some inexplicable reason you can't change the volume!



I am actually finding that I have never change the volume using my TWS at all. With tws that have volume control like galaxy buds, I just set the volume to the "max" on the buds and I adjust the volume on my phone 100% of time.


----------



## HungryPanda

I think it is close to the ZS10 pro, you cannot alter the volume with the earpieces


----------



## shockdoc

Total dealbreaker for me. No way I'm fishing my phone out of my pocket every time I get to a track with higher or lower than normal volume. I don't give a ratzass about accessing Siri or Google Assistant if I can't adjust the volume on my earphones. LOL


----------



## Slater

shockdoc said:


> Total dealbreaker for me. No way I'm fishing my phone out of my pocket every time I get to a track with higher or lower than normal volume. I don't give a ratzass about accessing Siri or Google Assistant if I can't adjust the volume on my earphones. LOL



Can Siri etc do it for you? I know when I ask Alexa to turn my Echo volume up or down, she will happily comply.


----------



## voicemaster

HungryPanda said:


> I think it is close to the ZS10 pro, you cannot alter the volume with the earpieces


Then it is the best sounding tws out there currently?


----------



## Slater (Oct 11, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Then it is the best sounding tws out there currently?



What kind of sound signature? “Best sounding” could mean a lot of things.

Also, it really depends on your budget? $30? $300?

Also, this is the de-facto best place to ask IMO:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/

Those chaps eat TW earphones for breakfast. Some own dozens of pairs!

You also need to think about any extra features you want/need. Some sound good, but have a terrible mic. Others sound good and have a good mic, but only 3 hours of battery life (vs some with 6 or even 8 hrs). Some are waterproof, others are not. Some can control volume from the buds, others can’t. Some have USB-C charging, others are micro-USB or even wireless charging.

The list goes on...


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> What kind of sound signature? “Best sounding” could mean a lot of things.
> 
> Also, what’s your budget? $30? $300?



Well I like kz zs10pro, zsx and blon bl03 so my favorite sound signature is around those graph for those iems.

I already read the features on KZ e10, so the only thing left is the sound quality and call quality.

Oh I am in that thread also. And this is KZ thread also, while the e10 might be tws but it still KZ. While cca can be talked here freely too.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> I am actually finding that I have never change the volume using my TWS at all. With tws that have volume control like galaxy buds, I just set the volume to the "max" on the buds and I adjust the volume on my phone 100% of time.



with bluetooth dongles or DACs, usually the best recommended way is to max the volume on the source, and control the volume from the receiver instead. but with TWS, i usually set the source/phone at 70-80%, and adjust the TWS volume to my normal average listening level. that way i get the best data transmission possible, and still have a bit of headroom if i need to raise the volume from my phone. 

the nice thing about my Note 8 (and i assume all the other newer Samsung phones) is with the "Sound Assistant" app, i can set the volume steps to 1, so it gives me finer volume control like a proper DAP



HungryPanda said:


> I think it is close to the ZS10 pro, you cannot alter the volume with the earpieces



how's the battery life? i read a review somewhere that it tops at 3 hours?


----------



## DynamicEars

HungryPanda said:


> I think it is close to the ZS10 pro, you cannot alter the volume with the earpieces



Its good and bad thing, i mean overall tuning and signature and technicalities are good if similar to ZS10 Pro. But its a bad thing if it comes with metallic sounding like ZS10 Pro. Do you have ZSX to compare with Panda? Thanks

I hope KZ will sell this BT module only to go head to head with BT20 so we got another option


----------



## Slater (Oct 11, 2019)

voicemaster said:


> Well I like kz zs10pro, zsx and blon bl03 so my favorite sound signature is around those graph for those iems.



With TRN BT20, you can have all 3 of those. That’s what I do.

I even have the mmcx version, which I usually use with the ibasso IT01. I guarantee, the BT20+IT01 combo will sounds better than any stock TW available ($300 Sennheiser MW07 included). And if I get sick of it, I can change it out to one of dozens of other options.


----------



## alex5908

voicemaster said:


> Well I like kz zs10pro, zsx and blon bl03


Are blon bl03 any good for a basshead?


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 11, 2019)

alex5908 said:


> Are blon bl03 any good for a basshead?



Take my opinion with a pinch of salt as I'm a basshead, but it not a basshead set IMHO.
The mid bass hits quite hard and there is a slight rolloff at the subbass. I never felt the need to EQ for more bass though, I thought it is quite adequate.

Having said that, this is the most important part - the stock tips are crap and most headfiers change out the tips for aftermarket ones, and this will affect the bass to some extent. The BLON BL-03's nozzle is short and most headfiers need a longer nozzle eartip or to do some spacer mods. That's why in the forums some find a very boomy bass and some say it is not of big enough quantity. YMMV. FWIW I am using narrow bore spinfits.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> With TRN BT20, you can have all 3 of those. That’s what I do.
> 
> I even have the mmcx version, which I usually use with the ibasso IT01. I guarantee, the BT20+IT01 combo will sounds better than any stock TW available ($300 Sennheiser MW07 included). And if I get sick of it, I can change it out to one of dozens of other options.



I have 3 bt20s lol (1 mmcx and 2 2pins). The problem with bt20s is that you need to bring powerbank to charge them up and also the split micro usb cable. They also don't connect right away unlike a real tws where it just connect when you take them out from their case. And the call quality kinds sucks compared to something like sabbat e12u.


----------



## voicemaster

alex5908 said:


> Are blon bl03 any good for a basshead?



Far from it. It does have a quite extended bass but not overly emphasized.


----------



## emeraldstone

illwafer said:


> yeah that's my experience too. i just like the convenience of being able to change the track without digging out my phone. i listen a lot at the gym, on my bike, etc.


Another option would be to get a cheap Chi-Fi IEM with MMCX connectors so you don't have to worry about breaking it when you are doing those activities. I don't have expereince with cheap MMCX IEMs so unfortuantely I can't provide any input on it.

The ZSX imo seems bulky/heavy for these kinds of activites as these IEMs are fairly large (depending on how large your ear is).


----------



## illwafer

emeraldstone said:


> Another option would be to get a cheap Chi-Fi IEM with MMCX connectors so you don't have to worry about breaking it when you are doing those activities. I don't have expereince with cheap MMCX IEMs so unfortuantely I can't provide any input on it.
> 
> The ZSX imo seems bulky/heavy for these kinds of activites as these IEMs are fairly large (depending on how large your ear is).



the ZSX *is *that cheap chifi IEM . i wish it did have mmcx though.

ZSX is great for working out. not heavy, stays in my ears, and kills most wind noise on my bike. it is awesome.


----------



## EvilMegaDroid

Should I go for the ZSX or ZS10 Pro. The only kz pair I own is as06 and looking to get something different (and better)


----------



## HungryPanda

If you like a more neutral sound get the ZSX if you like a more bass orientated iem get the ZS10 Pro


----------



## EvilMegaDroid

HungryPanda said:


> If you like a more neutral sound get the ZSX if you like a more bass orientated iem get the ZS10 Pro



Well I like listening to lots of different genere so I guess the zsx would be the better choice here.


----------



## Slater

EvilMegaDroid said:


> Should I go for the ZSX or ZS10 Pro. The only kz pair I own is as06 and looking to get something different (and better)



Have you considered the Blon BL03?


----------



## EvilMegaDroid

Slater said:


> Have you considered the Blon BL03?



How good are these compared to kz line. I don't mind picking something that is not kz.


----------



## SoundChoice

EvilMegaDroid said:


> How good are these compared to kz line. I don't mind picking something that is not kz.



How good is Toyota compared to Honda? Depends on the car and model. 

But in this case, just get the BLON BL03, some tips and cables, and close your head-fi account forever.


----------



## Slater

EvilMegaDroid said:


> How good are these compared to kz line. I don't mind picking something that is not kz.



There is nothing in the KZ line that compares to the Blon BL03.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 12, 2019)

EvilMegaDroid said:


> Should I go for the ZSX or ZS10 Pro. The only kz pair I own is as06 and looking to get something different (and better)



ZSX or get BLON


----------



## chinmie

i had and audio meet yesterday with a friend who brought his 64 audio u18t tzar. we both agree the Blon is a great sounding and special IEM, even after we listen to it in the same session with the tzar.

so what are you saying, Chinmie?? is the Blon a TOTL level?? 
no... 
but a damn good tuned IEM. it's worth to have while it's still available


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> i had and audio meet yesterday with a friend who brought his 64 audio u18t tzar. we both agree the Blon is a great sounding and special IEM, even after we listen to it in the same session with the tzar.
> 
> so what are you saying, Chinmie?? is the Blon a TOTL level??
> no...
> but a damn good tuned IEM. it's worth to have while it's still available



I am ordering another one for backup.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> I am ordering another one for backup.



same here


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> i had and audio meet yesterday with a friend who brought his 64 audio u18t tzar. we both agree the Blon is a great sounding and special IEM, even after we listen to it in the same session with the tzar.
> 
> so what are you saying, Chinmie?? is the Blon a TOTL level??
> no...
> but a damn good tuned IEM. it's worth to have while it's still available



Its a similar to TOTL tuning, the tuning is very very good, just the driver capabilities , etc that cant hold with better materials etc.


----------



## courierdriver (Oct 12, 2019)

chinmie said:


> i had and audio meet yesterday with a friend who brought his 64 audio u18t tzar. we both agree the Blon is a great sounding and special IEM, even after we listen to it in the same session with the tzar.
> 
> so what are you saying, Chinmie?? is the Blon a TOTL level??
> no...
> but a damn good tuned IEM. it's worth to have while it's still available


Ok...between you, @voicemaster, @Slater and @Hawaiibadboy...I think now that I really need to get the BL 03. Here's hoping they will have a good discount on 11/11, so I can get them, along with a nice silver/silver plated cable. Thanks to everyone who has commented about this set, my bank account is gonna be in the red, once again. LOL!


----------



## SoundChoice

courierdriver said:


> Ok...between you, @voicemaster, @Slater and @Hawaiibadboy...I think now that I really need to get the BL 03. Here's hoping they will have a good discount on 11/11, so I can get them, along with a nice silver/silver plated cable. Thanks to everyone who has commented about this set, my bank account is gonna be in the red, once again. LOL!



We're not helping you spend $30, but saving you hundreds of dollars on seeking to outperform it.


----------



## courierdriver

SoundChoice said:


> We're not helping you spend $30, but saving you hundreds of dollars on seeking to outperform it.


Lol! Yeah, I know, and I appreciate that for sure. It's just that I've been having a hard time wrapping my head around some of the things that have been mentioned about this set, that I keep thinking would present problems for me...especially with fit. I like iems with long stems that I can slap foams on and get a great seal. The short, skinny stems that people have commented on are a huge concern to me. I also don't like the feel of silicone tips in my ears, and messing around with them to get a great fit. I'm torn between getting the Nicehck DB3 and the BLON BL03. I know the Nicehck DB3 would fit my ears great, because they are based on a KZ ZSN/PRO ZS10 PRO shell, which I already own and find comfortable for many hours of listening. With the BL 03, I'm not sure if I would be able to get as good a fit.


----------



## baskingshark

courierdriver said:


> Lol! Yeah, I know, and I appreciate that for sure. It's just that I've been having a hard time wrapping my head around some of the things that have been mentioned about this set, that I keep thinking would present problems for me...especially with fit. I like iems with long stems that I can slap foams on and get a great seal. The short, skinny stems that people have commented on are a huge concern to me. I also don't like the feel of silicone tips in my ears, and messing around with them to get a great fit. I'm torn between getting the Nicehck DB3 and the BLON BL03. I know the Nicehck DB3 would fit my ears great, because they are based on a KZ ZSN/PRO ZS10 PRO shell, which I already own and find comfortable for many hours of listening. With the BL 03, I'm not sure if I would be able to get as good a fit.



Maybe we can discuss it further in the chinese brands or dedicated BLON thread (since this is a KZ thread), but suffice to say, I gave away my KZ ZS10 pro and **** after i spent two days with the BLON.

@courierdriver  there are some headfiers using a spacer mod with foams for the BLON in the chinese brands/sub 100 bucks thread, maybe u can ask them how's the fit.


----------



## BowWazoo (Oct 13, 2019)

I am absolutely excited.

Call me insane: I got the Stellia here, but do prefer the zs10 pro




 

 



My preset


----------



## RikudouGoku

BowWazoo said:


> I am absolutely excited.
> 
> Call me insane: I got the Stellia here, but do prefer the zs10 pro
> 
> ...


wow What camera did you use for those pictures? Looks amazing and probably the most detailed picture I seen in headfi period.


----------



## BowWazoo

Thank you.

Alpha7 II + Tamron 28-75mm.

Pic 1 & 3 are stacked with Zerene Stacker from 20 pics


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> Ok...between you, @voicemaster, @Slater and @Hawaiibadboy...I think now that I really need to get the BL 03. Here's hoping they will have a good discount on 11/11, so I can get them, along with a nice silver/silver plated cable. Thanks to everyone who has commented about this set, my bank account is gonna be in the red, once again. LOL!


Waiting to 11.11 could be to your advantage. As on the Blon thread, members are waiting for their 2nds or 3rds, to see if there's a variance between the Brown (really gunmetal) and the Silver models.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Ok...between you, @voicemaster, @Slater and @Hawaiibadboy...I think now that I really need to get the BL 03. Here's hoping they will have a good discount on 11/11, so I can get them, along with a nice silver/silver plated cable. Thanks to everyone who has commented about this set, my bank account is gonna be in the red, once again. LOL!



No need to break the bank for some expensive and ‘fancy’ cable. I’m willing to bet that you already have a cable that will work.

Or you can, of course, use the stock cable (I found that removing 1 of the 2 ear guide layers was all that’s needed to make the stock cable perfectly usable).

I also highly recommended the $3 KZ copper ZSN cable, but you’ll have to reshape the stock 2-pin socket time get it to fit.


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> Waiting to 11.11 could be to your advantage. As on the Blon thread, members are waiting for their 2nds or 3rds, to see if there's a variance between the Brown (really gunmetal) and the Silver models.



Blon thread?


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Blon thread?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blon-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.916702/


----------



## shockdoc

Is the Blon REALLY that good? It convincingly bests numerous multi-driver IEMs? Or is it just another flavor of earphone that's fun to listen to?


----------



## BowWazoo

How does the zs10 pro differ from the sound to the AS16? 
is the as16 to be considered as an upgrade?


----------



## raccoon city

Slater said:


> I also highly recommended the $3 KZ copper ZSN cable, but you’ll have to reshape the stock 2-pin socket time get it to fit.


I like that cable!
How difficult is that mod?


----------



## Slater

raccoon city said:


> I like that cable!
> How difficult is that mod?



It's not hard. Do you have a wife, girlfriend, sister, etc who is really good at filing their nails? They could probably do it in a few minutes, as it's very similar.


----------



## raccoon city (Oct 13, 2019)

Slater said:


> It's not hard. Do you have a wife, girlfriend, sister, etc who is really good at filing their nails? They could probably do it in a few minutes, as it's very similar.


I don't file my own nails, but it sounds like I could do it myself.
(I would rather do it myself than ask the women in my life to do it.)


----------



## Slater (Oct 13, 2019)

raccoon city said:


> I don't file my own nails, but it sounds like I could do it myself.
> (I would rather do it myself than ask the women in my life to do it.)



Well, I'm just saying that they've been doing it for years/decades. So if you've never done it in your life, I don't know if an IEM would be the very 1st thing I would learn on. I would hate to find out that you permanently messed up the socket on your Blon. It's a 1-way street; if you remove too much material or mess it up in some way there's no way to fix it. Fingernails grow back; 2-pin sockets do not.

If you do choose to attempt it yourself, I wish you luck sir!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Just tried out my brand-new KZ ZS10 Pro I received last week. I'm pleasantly surprised.

I was wondering if it would sound 'steely,' like in so many of the complaints here. But it actually sounds less steely, IMO, than my ED9 or ZS7. The tuning is relatively neutral for a KZ, and the steely sound doesn't impose itself universally. It is evident on strings, though.

Comfort is okay, not quite as nice as my CNT-1, but not bad at all. They kind of just disappear from your notice, no discomfort. I'm using stock tips, but they actually feel a little big, so I may change them later. They are snug and secure.

For a general-purpose IEM for $35, I can recommend them so far. The sound is relatively clean and crisp for something in that range, and unlike the CNT-1 I don't find vocals to be recessed. It positions the vocals fairly well. Percussion and bass isn't weak, although it can't do all the tricks my CNT-1 can. Bass is not quite as explosive as on the KZ7, of course, as it appears to be a more neutral tuning overall. Arcade Fire is still better on the KZ7.

The cable doesn't give me any microphonic issues, and because of its good fit, I could see using these as an exercise IEM for gym or biking or something. I'll have to try it on transit. Makes me wonder how the ZSX and C12 fit in comparison.

I don't know if there is any driver flex with mine. My KZ7 are impressive, but they make my ears ring like crazy.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Also, the ZS10 Pros make a kind of "thwack" sound coming out of my ears, so I don't know what that means.


----------



## voicemaster

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Also, the ZS10 Pros make a kind of "thwack" sound coming out of my ears, so I don't know what that means.



Are you using a silicone tip? if so, it might just be the sound of the tips squinching (is this even a word?).


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Yes, it's the tips making the noise. I just wondered if there was any meaning to it. Sounds like there was a good deal of energy left over from the process of removing them.


----------



## SoundChoice (Oct 13, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Just tried out my brand-new KZ ZS10 Pro I received last week. I'm pleasantly surprised.
> 
> I was wondering if it would sound 'steely,' like in so many of the complaints here. But it actually sounds less steely, IMO, than my ED9 or ZS7. The tuning is relatively neutral for a KZ, and the steely sound doesn't impose itself universally. It is evident on strings, though.
> 
> ...



The ZS10 Pros are a very good IEM, and were the "all/many/most praised them" BL03 of the first quarter or two of this year. While I respect the person/people who criticize its timbre with that oft-repeated word, it's not part of my experience. I even bought a backup pair. I find the earphones balanced and fun and musical and you should enjoy them for many years.


----------



## raccoon city

This question is mostly for @Slater but anyone can answer.
Which has more bass, the KZ ZS7 or the Blon BL-03?


----------



## baskingshark

shockdoc said:


> Is the Blon REALLY that good? It convincingly bests numerous multi-driver IEMs? Or is it just another flavor of earphone that's fun to listen to?



The BLON BL-03 excels at timbre and tonality and giving a very natural coherent tuning. It portrays the music very naturally and is good for genres that have acoustic instruments like classical, jazz, acoustic, unplugged genres.
BLON loses out to multi driver IEMs in the details, instrument separation and clarity section. But usually these multi BA IEMs will have a more artificial timbre. It really depends on the genres of music u listen to and what you look out for in your music. EDM and metal may be better with the multi BA/hybrid type IEMs. And likewise those who want more details for critical listening.




ShakeThoseCans said:


> The cable doesn't give me any microphonic issues, and because of its good fit, I could see using these as an exercise IEM for gym or biking or something. I'll have to try it on transit. Makes me wonder how the ZSX and C12 fit in comparison.



KZ ZS10 Pro is good for isolation/transit. It provides about ballpark figure of -15 dB isolation IMHO. I used to use it for stage monitoring next to a full set acoustic drums and subwoofer amps and it protected my hearing adequately. It was my subway go to IEM for the past 3 months before I gave it away last week.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

baskingshark said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro is good for isolation/transit. It provides about ballpark figure of -15 dB isolation IMHO. I used to use it for stage monitoring next to a full set acoustic drums and subwoofer amps and it protected my hearing adequately. It was my subway go to IEM for the past 3 months before I gave it away last week.



I thought so. It isolates better than most of my chi-fi IEMs, and so it is a good candidate for transit use. It fits well, and is not too heavy, so it definitely has a use case here.


----------



## SoundChoice

baskingshark said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro is good for isolation/transit. It provides about ballpark figure of -15 dB isolation IMHO. I used to use it for stage monitoring next to a full set acoustic drums and subwoofer amps and it protected my hearing adequately. It was my subway go to IEM for the past 3 months before I gave it away last week.



What's your new go-to IEM for isolation and stage monitoring?


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro is good for isolation/transit. It provides about ballpark figure of -15 dB isolation IMHO. I used to use it for stage monitoring next to a full set acoustic drums and subwoofer amps and it protected my hearing adequately. It was my subway go to IEM for the past 3 months before I gave it away last week.



i also let go of my ZS10 Pro, because of redundancy. as far as isolation, it does a good job, but the Kanas (and some others on my collection) has better isolation. i suspect the ZSX would do a better job for isolation because of the fitting


----------



## baskingshark

SoundChoice said:


> What's your new go-to IEM for isolation and stage monitoring?



Audiosense T800. It gives ~ 30 dB isolation and not to mention better details and instrument separation/clarity than the ZS10 pro. I know u had some issues with the fitting, that's a real pity.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Maybe we can discuss it further in the chinese brands or dedicated BLON thread (since this is a KZ thread), but suffice to say, I gave away my KZ ZS10 pro and **** after i spent two days with the BLON.
> 
> @courierdriver  there are some headfiers using a spacer mod with foams for the BLON in the chinese brands/sub 100 bucks thread, maybe u can ask them how's the fit.


Thanks! I just subscribed to the BLON thread, so I'll I'll post there at times. Glad to know it exists. As for the ZS10 PRO, I'll never get rid of them. In fact, I like them so much that I bought a second set during the Aliexpress summer sale for $30-something Canadian, as well as 2 type C JCally cables (balanced and single-ended) to go with it. I will be gifting this combo to someone in my family at Christmas. As for the tip/spacer mods for the BL 03; I'm l will look into it, but aside from a cable upgrade and slapping some Newbee foams on it, I'm not much interested in playing with spacers/ double-flange/silicon tips. If it doesn't fit properly or sound at least decent out of the box, it decreases my interest.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> No need to break the bank for some expensive and ‘fancy’ cable. I’m willing to bet that you already have a cable that will work.
> 
> Or you can, of course, use the stock cable (I found that removing 1 of the 2 ear guide layers was all that’s needed to make the stock cable perfectly usable).
> 
> I also highly recommended the $3 KZ copper ZSN cable, but you’ll have to reshape the stock 2-pin socket time get it to fit.


Problem is, I don't like stock cables because the are usually terminated in 3.5 unbalanced plug. I prefer to use balanced 2.5 output from my Fiio Q1MK2 for more power and better stage. I currently have a TRN 16-core SPC balanced cable in my Ali cart ($12 CDN), and a Nicehck 16-core SPC balanced cable (with better quality connectors) for about $50 CDN. That cable (since I'm subscribed to their store as a favorite, and have already purchased 2 cables and the NX7 iem) will probably only set me back about $20 CDN on 11/11. I love their SPC  2-pin, 8-core, balanced 2.5 cable on my TFZ No.3. That cable totally helped transform the sound from an iem I thought was bass-heavy and lacking in detail, to one I now reach for often.


----------



## BowWazoo

BowWazoo said:


> How does the zs10 pro differ from the sound to the AS16?
> is the as16 to be considered as an upgrade?


No one ?


----------



## Caipirina

Received my KZ E10 today and summed up my very first impressions here


----------



## baskingshark

Caipirina said:


> Received my KZ E10 today and summed up my very first impressions here



Nice review. If u could compare them to some KZ wired models, what is their most similar IEM that compares with it?


----------



## Caipirina

baskingshark said:


> Nice review. If u could compare them to some KZ wired models, what is their most similar IEM that compares with it?


Will do eventually, but to be fair I need to give them some time to catch up / burn in.


----------



## Threshold404 (Oct 14, 2019)

Hey guys, I have a question for KZ ZSX owners, do you have some bad hiss when playing music? it's pretty noticeable on high volume especially when I compare it to my KZ ES4


----------



## Caipirina

BowWazoo said:


> No one ?


Personally I find the as16 more analytical, love using it for classical music, while the zs10 pro are more’fun’, good for EDM / Disco. But this is just my very personal, subjective old ear opinion.


----------



## baskingshark

Threshold404 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question for KZ ZSX owners, do you have some bad hiss when playing music? it's pretty noticeable on high volume especially when I compare it to my KZ ES4



Hi I made a post about this hiss issue a few weeks ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3210#post-15209679

If u are interested in the technicals for hiss:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/is-...y-more-influential-in-hiss-for-an-iem.915705/


----------



## Slater

raccoon city said:


> This question is mostly for @Slater but anyone can answer.
> Which has more bass, the KZ ZS7 or the Blon BL-03?



Between those 2, the ZS7 has more.


----------



## raccoon city

Now I don't know if I want to get the KZ ZS7 or the Blon BL-03...


----------



## BowWazoo

At Nirvana unplugged I noticed a certain sharpness by zs10 pro. When I lower at 2500 Hz  1-2db, the zs10 sounds much more pleasant


----------



## chinmie

BowWazoo said:


> At Nirvana unplugged I noticed a certain sharpness by zs10 pro. When I lower at 2500 Hz  1-2db, the zs10 sounds much more pleasant



reducing sharpness by applying low freq shelfing? that's odd.. what sharpness are you referring to?


----------



## BowWazoo

Probably I do not know the optimal words in English for what I mean.
Anyway, Curts voice, as well as the acoustic guitar, often sounds uncomfortable in my ears.

With the settings described above, it gets much better.

I am probably very sensitive to these frequencies.


----------



## chinmie

BowWazoo said:


> Probably I do not know the optimal words in English for what I mean.
> Anyway, Curts voice, as well as the acoustic guitar, often sounds uncomfortable in my ears.
> 
> With the settings described above, it gets much better.
> ...



no problem, audio lingo can be confusing sometimes 
usually sharpness is associated with treble region. from what you did to your ZS10 pro with EQ, it seems like you're reducing all low frequency up to passing the vocal and guitars fundamental freq. it looks to me the ZS10 Pro just has too much bass for your taste


----------



## Crandall

Threshold404 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question for KZ ZSX owners, do you have some bad hiss when playing music? it's pretty noticeable on high volume especially when I compare it to my KZ ES4


I've got audible hiss from most sources with the AS10, ZSX, and ZS7(to a slightly lesser degree). It's due to sources not having low noise floors at the low power needed for these IEMs since they're high sensitivity and low impedance. The hiss is nearly completely gone if I use the ifi iematch/earbuddy with those sources, or completely gone if I'm using my ES100 as an amp.


----------



## Slater

Crandall said:


> The hiss is nearly completely gone if I use the ifi iematch/earbuddy with those sources, *or completely gone if I'm using my ES100 as an amp.*



This is one of many reasons why I keep singing the praises of the ES100.

Best money I have spent in this hobby in a long time.


----------



## jant71

Radsone should just make a Fiio M5 competitor that can also store and play files in addition to the bluetooth. Do we have to come up with everything. This should exist already


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> This is one of many reasons why I keep singing the praises of the ES100.
> 
> Best money I have spent in this hobby in a long time.



This ES100 device is a complete mystery to me. It's like a Swiss Army Knife of Dark Arts and Magic. Does it hold any benefit to someone who has a DAP (Fiio) and a DAC (Dragonfly)?


----------



## kukkurovaca

SoundChoice said:


> Does it hold any benefit to someone who has a DAP (Fiio) and a DAC (Dragonfly)?



If you have a need for a wireless solution, or if you want a convenient way to add EQ to your portable chain without needing to do it in software.


----------



## Slater (Oct 14, 2019)

jant71 said:


> Radsone should just make a Fiio M5 competitor that can also store and play files in addition to the bluetooth. Do we have to come up with everything. This should exist already



I sent them this as a feature request/product idea a while ago.

More precisely, I said they wouldn’t even need a screen. All they’d need to do is add a microSD card to the existing ES100. Everything would be handled by the app, with the app controlling the actual media selection and playing, album art, etc. And of course the EQ and other existing features would seamlessly integrate into the app as well.

Basically, the ES100 would be used for local media storage and processing; no screen required. The sound would be optimal, because it’s directly wired (ie no Bluetooth when listening in ‘local media’ mode).


----------



## kukkurovaca

Slater said:


> I sent them this as a feature request/product idea a while ago.
> 
> More precisely, I said they wouldn’t even need a screen. All they’d need to do is add a microSD card to the existing ES100. Everything would be handled by the app, with the app controlling the actual media selection and playing, album art, etc. And of course the EQ and other existing features would seamlessly integrate into the app as well.
> 
> Basically, the ES100 would be used for local media storage and processing; no screen required. The sound would be optimal, because it’s directly wired (ie no Bluetooth when listening in ‘local media’ mode).



Yeah, a headless DAP/streamer along the lines of the Chord Poly (but with EQ and better app support) would be 10/10 for me as well


----------



## chinmie

SoundChoice said:


> This ES100 device is a complete mystery to me. It's like a Swiss Army Knife of Dark Arts and Magic. Does it hold any benefit to someone who has a DAP (Fiio) and a DAC (Dragonfly)?



the ES100 would be much more compact and lighter. i used to pair a DFR to my phone, but i don't use it anymore because of the hassle and it's more prone of breaking (i like to still use the phone while listening to music). 

the ES100 itself has a soft natural sound, similar in tone and level of sound quality to the Dragonfly Black, but with the added benefit of great app, balanced jack, dedicated controls, and also you can leave the phone charged on the desk while using the ES100.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I sent them this as a feature request/product idea a while ago.
> 
> More precisely, I said they wouldn’t even need a screen. All they’d need to do is add a microSD card to the existing ES100. Everything would be handled by the app, with the app controlling the actual media selection and playing, album art, etc. And of course the EQ and other existing features would seamlessly integrate into the app as well.
> 
> Basically, the ES100 would be used for local media storage and processing; no screen required. The sound would be optimal, because it’s directly wired (ie no Bluetooth when listening in ‘local media’ mode).


Great idea @Slater! I could definitely get behind that one.


----------



## Slater (Oct 15, 2019)

courierdriver said:


> Great idea @Slater! I could definitely get behind that one.



I hope they take my idea and make it.

People keep asking for a ‘new’ ES100 (ie IE200). This would be the shot of steroids it needs to dethrone the current ES100.

The ability to play local high-res media would be epic, and they’d sell a boatload of them!

I also mentioned to them how it would get around lossless media OS limitations (such as iOS). In other words, by using a hardware device and dedicated app for the media playing/decoding, you’d be able to play all file types - flac, DSD, etc etc


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Just ordered this fella for the ZSX: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TQFM4GW

Hopefully it'll make them an ideal gym set, then I can put the actual cable on when I'm at the laptop for the extra fidelity (love my Dragonfly).


----------



## shockdoc

SomeGuyDude said:


> Just ordered this fella for the ZSX: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TQFM4GW
> 
> Hopefully it'll make them an ideal gym set, then I can put the actual cable on when I'm at the laptop for the extra fidelity (love my Dragonfly).


Looking forward, perhaps to the comparison between wired and unwired.


----------



## Mouseman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Just ordered this fella for the ZSX: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TQFM4GW
> 
> Hopefully it'll make them an ideal gym set, then I can put the actual cable on when I'm at the laptop for the extra fidelity (love my Dragonfly).


I have one of those for my "extra" set of ZS10s. It has pretty good SQ, although I'm not a huge fan of the form factor (but I've had ones like that before, so I knew what I was getting). Unless you tuck the cable in the neck of your shirt, the modules tend to move around a fair amount. I had it paired to my R3, I'll have to re-pair it to the R5 and see how it sounds.


----------



## Keputs

Threshold404 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question for KZ ZSX owners, do you have some bad hiss when playing music? it's pretty noticeable on high volume especially when I compare it to my KZ ES4



This is something I don't understand. Why do some people hear hissing from their iems? I have several items in my humble audio arsenal and not once did I hear even a slight hiss. Am I just lucky to get good iems? (Not that I'm looking forward to it.H I never have to hear one)


----------



## mbwilson111

Keputs said:


> This is something I don't understand. Why do some people hear hissing from their iems? I have several items in my humble audio arsenal and not once did I hear even a slight hiss. Am I just lucky to get good iems? (Not that I'm looking forward to it.H I never have to hear one)



The hissing comes from the amplifier.  This happens if the iem is too sensitive for the output of that amp.  I don't consider it a fault in the iem or the amp.  Just a mismatch.


----------



## Keputs

mbwilson111 said:


> The hissing comes from the amplifier.  This happens if the iem is too sensitive for the output of that amp.  I don't consider it a fault in the iem or the amp.  Just a mismatch.



Ok. Got it. Thanks for sharing this information.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So my Dragonfly decided it would be fun to stop working. Any suggestions for a replacement, or just grab another DFR?


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> So my Dragonfly decided it would be fun to stop working. Any suggestions for a replacement, or just grab another DFR?



grab the Cobalt? haven't heard it though.. only had the DFB and DFR in the past. i personally like the Centrance amp sound better than the Dragonflies. if you can find the discontinued BlueDAC, that has similar sound profile to the DFR, with added convenience of bluetooth, and analog volume control


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> grab the Cobalt? haven't heard it though.. only had the DFB and DFR in the past. i personally like the Centrance amp sound better than the Dragonflies. if you can find the discontinued BlueDAC, that has similar sound profile to the DFR, with added convenience of bluetooth, and analog volume control



I can't seem to find any of the Dacports available. I was also looking at the Cambridge Dacmagic? Any experiences there? Looks convenient as hell. 

I think the DFR's problem is that it's got the USB plug right on the device. Basically what has happened more than once with them for me (the Red was my 2nd after the v1.2) is that they get jostled or bumped and then the connection gets REALLY dicey. I like the idea of something that doesn't plug straight in.

Or I'll just buy a Cobalt tomorrow.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> I can't seem to find any of the Dacports available. I was also looking at the Cambridge Dacmagic? Any experiences there? Looks convenient as hell.
> 
> I think the DFR's problem is that it's got the USB plug right on the device. Basically what has happened more than once with them for me (the Red was my 2nd after the v1.2) is that they get jostled or bumped and then the connection gets REALLY dicey. I like the idea of something that doesn't plug straight in.
> 
> Or I'll just buy a Cobalt tomorrow.



the dacmagic x5? haven't tried them, but looking at the picture, I'm liking that volume control. 
the reason i stopped using the DFR (even though i really like the sound) is because i like using my phone while listening to music, and that dangling on my phone is prone to being knocked and break the connector. 

but i assume you're going to use them with PC or laptop? my friends are using those Sabaj DA3 and loving it, saying it sounds better than the DFR. it's power hungry though, so it won't be usable with phones


----------



## SomeGuyDude

chinmie said:


> the dacmagic x5? haven't tried them, but looking at the picture, I'm liking that volume control.
> the reason i stopped using the DFR (even though i really like the sound) is because i like using my phone while listening to music, and that dangling on my phone is prone to being knocked and break the connector.
> 
> but i assume you're going to use them with PC or laptop? my friends are using those Sabaj DA3 and loving it, saying it sounds better than the DFR. it's power hungry though, so it won't be usable with phones



Generally from the laptop or via my phone (Pixel 3XL, so no jack), at the big desk I have an Aune T1 mk2 and some HD650s. That DA3 looks like a winner, so I'll pick that up next payday I think, thank you! Power hungry is fine, I'll just put the phone on the wireless rapid-charge pad and be good to go.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The good of the aptx-HD cable: It really sounds awesome and the connection process is super simple. A ton easier than my Senn MTWs for example. Literally no manual, just pop it out of the box, hold the button, pair. Done. The aptx-HD is definitely clear and that keeps the ZSX sounding all nice and clear.

The less-good: There's a noticeable hiss. It's not huge, and (mercifully) it's not only on one side like the Jabra 65t so it's easy to forget, but it's definitely there.

The bad: Oh my god the ear hook part of the cable is trash. The loop is huge and can't be adjusted, so unless you have ears the size of cereal bowls the cable is never gonna stay behind your ear. I'm using this at the gym so I have a skullcap to hold them in place, but otherwise it's a nightmare.

Overall if it weren't for the huge cable issue I'd call these an A+. I don't know if I'll keep it.


----------



## Slater

SomeGuyDude said:


> The good of the aptx-HD cable: It really sounds awesome and the connection process is super simple. A ton easier than my Senn MTWs for example. Literally no manual, just pop it out of the box, hold the button, pair. Done. The aptx-HD is definitely clear and that keeps the ZSX sounding all nice and clear.
> 
> The less-good: There's a noticeable hiss. It's not huge, and (mercifully) it's not only on one side like the Jabra 65t so it's easy to forget, but it's definitely there.
> 
> ...



The ear hooks don’t have a memory wire, or the ability to reshape then with a hair dryer?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> The ear hooks don’t have a memory wire, or the ability to reshape then with a hair dryer?



It's not memory wire, it's more like a "fixed in place" wire. I also don't own a hair dryer but I might give it a shot at the gym since there's one there.

I will say I think an optimal solution is a little twist tie or clip to hold it under your chin (main wire behind your neck). I'll try that out tomorrow.


----------



## IamJon (Oct 19, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> The good of the aptx-HD cable: It really sounds awesome and the connection process is super simple. A ton easier than my Senn MTWs for example. Literally no manual, just pop it out of the box, hold the button, pair. Done. The aptx-HD is definitely clear and that keeps the ZSX sounding all nice and clear.
> 
> The less-good: There's a noticeable hiss. It's not huge, and (mercifully) it's not only on one side like the Jabra 65t so it's easy to forget, but it's definitely there.
> 
> ...



I have issue with the ear hooks on the same kz adapter. Found it stays in place better with the cable hanging in front rather than behind my neck.

Being meaning to try reshaping them with some heat. Is hair dryier best, not sure how easy to reform the curve? First  thought involved hot water and a pencil.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

As a final update, I've decided to return the cable in favor of the ES100, since that can go as a USB DAC or bluetooth receiver and let me use the normal KZ cable.


----------



## raccoon city

raccoon city said:


> Now I don't know if I want to get the KZ ZS7 or the Blon BL-03...


I have decided that I want to get the ZS7 for 11/11.
I think I will be happy with the stock cables.
I hope the price drops in about three weeks.


----------



## Slater

SomeGuyDude said:


> As a final update, I've decided to return the cable in favor of the ES100, since that can go as a USB DAC or bluetooth receiver and let me use the normal KZ cable.



Way better choice my friend. Make sure you install the ES100 app to take full advantages of all its features.

Also, check out this thread if you haven’t already done so. Lots of useful information contained in there:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/


----------



## planetpowers

Slater said:


> Way better choice my friend. Make sure you install the ES100 app to take full advantages of all its features.
> 
> Also, check out this thread if you haven’t already done so. Lots of useful information contained in there:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/




I have the Fiio BTR3 that I use with their app and with the Onkyo player. Another great choice. The Bluetooth connection through the LDAC is really sweet.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 19, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> As a final update, I've decided to return the cable in favor of the ES100, since that can go as a USB DAC or bluetooth receiver and let me use the normal KZ cable.



If you want bluetooth module for gym, nothing can beat BT20S. And yea, it might have a slight hiss, but you are at the gym anyway where they blast those EDM music loudly.


----------



## SoundChoice

voicemaster said:


> If you want bluetooth module for gym, nothing can beat BT20S. And yea, it might have a slight hiss, but you are at the gym anyway where they blast those EDM music loudly.



Just got my BT20S today and am discovering many IEMs don’t seal the way they do with a cable, the nozzle sits further out the ear. But the ones that do fit? It’s an amazing sensation to walk around untethered hearing your favorite music!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

voicemaster said:


> If you want bluetooth module for gym, nothing can beat BT20S. And yea, it might have a slight hiss, but you are at the gym anyway where they blast those EDM music loudly.



Does the BT20S have a c-pin option?

Either way, I think I might be okay with the ES100 clipped to my shirt. I'm a lifter, I don't do a lot of running around, so that should be adequate.


----------



## chinmie

SoundChoice said:


> Just got my BT20S today and am discovering many IEMs don’t seal the way they do with a cable, the nozzle sits further out the ear. But the ones that do fit? It’s an amazing sensation to walk around untethered hearing your favorite music!



you could re-form the cable to some extend by bending it. adding heat (hair dryer for example) while forming them also help. i did that on all three sets of my BT20s. ootb it won't fit my ears well


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Oct 20, 2019)

Immediate reaction: The ES100 is magic. LDAC connectivity so no worry about degradation with Spotify streaming. Sounds effing fantastic, clipped the unit (which is WAYYY tinier than I expected) to my jeans, good to go. This 100% has my endorsement right now. I agree with others who called the Dragonfly slightly "clinical" in comparison, the low end feels more potent but not by a huge margin. The ZSX is just big and FUN.

EDIT: I just feel the need to repeat how damn good this little fella is. Particularly for a metalhead like me. Threw on some Lord Mantis, Thou, and a couple other black metal / sludge bands and just... the music with ES100+ZSX is so punchy and lively I'm bad to melting into them. Thank you to everyone for the suggestions. I prefer this to my DFR now.

FURTHER EDIT: I do have one minor qualm. The power on/off sound is stuuuupidly loud. Like when I turned it off I jolted because it was louder than the music. However, it sounds gorgeous as a USB DAC. I will say that the Dragonfly Red is likely "technically superior," I just definitely enjoy the ES100 for jamming music more. I'll also say the app is ABSURDLY robust, I can't imagine messing around in it to its full potential.


----------



## Mouseman

SomeGuyDude said:


> Immediate reaction: The ES100 is magic. LDAC connectivity so no worry about degradation with Spotify streaming. Sounds effing fantastic, clipped the unit (which is WAYYY tinier than I expected) to my jeans, good to go. This 100% has my endorsement right now. I agree with others who called the Dragonfly slightly "clinical" in comparison, the low end feels more potent but not by a huge margin. The ZSX is just big and FUN.
> 
> EDIT: I just feel the need to repeat how damn good this little fella is. Particularly for a metalhead like me. Threw on some Lord Mantis, Thou, and a couple other black metal / sludge bands and just... the music with ES100+ZSX is so punchy and lively I'm bad to melting into them. Thank you to everyone for the suggestions. I prefer this to my DFR now.
> 
> FURTHER EDIT: I do have one minor qualm. The power on/off sound is stuuuupidly loud. Like when I turned it off I jolted because it was louder than the music. However, it sounds gorgeous as a USB DAC. I will say that the Dragonfly Red is likely "technically superior," I just definitely enjoy the ES100 for jamming music more. I'll also say the app is ABSURDLY robust, I can't imagine messing around in it to its full potential.


I'm glad you're liking it - I'm not sure what magic they put in there, but it is well worth the money. 

Easy fix to your issue - in the app, go to the menu and then "misc control". You can pot down the volume on those there. It is stupid loud by default.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Mouseman said:


> I'm glad you're liking it - I'm not sure what magic they put in there, but it is well worth the money.
> 
> Easy fix to your issue - in the app, go to the menu and then "misc control". You can pot down the volume on those there. It is stupid loud by default.



Thar she blows! Much better, thank you.


----------



## loomisjohnson

my take on the zsx terminator is now on the blog---i'm not in love, but she's got a good personality


----------



## Caipirina (Oct 21, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Awesome! Thank you. I put a pair of CP100 on and holy hell the sound turned into a woolly mess.



Got my ZSX as well as my CP155 .. and I find they fit too loose ... they are getting pushed way too far over the neck of the nozzle when I thrust them down my earhole ... CP145 seems to be a better fit ...  also tried the 155 on the ZS10 Pro .. same issue ... now I am trying to find which of my KZ have an actually wider nozzle so that I get to use the 155 ...  anyone?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

No clue what the CP155 would fit better, i'm using the 145 and definitely a huge fan. Got the ES100 clipped to my belt and I seriously think I've found near-endgame for portable (unless the A16 is really that much better).

Might not stick with these in the gym, though. At least not without some foam tips to keep them in place. Silicone gets slippery when wet.


----------



## Slater

SomeGuyDude said:


> Silicone gets slippery when wet.



Some might argue that’s not a bad problem to have


----------



## Caipirina

SomeGuyDude said:


> No clue what the CP155 would fit better, i'm using the 145 and definitely a huge fan. Got the ES100 clipped to my belt and I seriously think I've found near-endgame for portable (unless the A16 is really that much better).
> 
> Might not stick with these in the gym, though. At least not without some foam tips to keep them in place. Silicone gets slippery when wet.



I actually meant to quote @emeraldstone who said "They are ~6mm. @Keputs uses the CP155 on the ZSX." ... and you responded to that and somehow I ended up quoting that then  

I am so done with wires (especially in gym / when running) I am really happy using my top KZs on the TRN BT20 ...  I like the ZS pro and the ZSX for more fun, thumpy, forgiving (i.e. lossy streams from Mixcloud) music, while the AS16 are fantastic for classic, everything orchestral or lush ambient FLAC files ...


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> Some might argue that’s not a bad problem to have



Still talking ear tips?


----------



## nxnje

Got some IEMs in the last weeks:
- TRN V90
- KZ ZSX
- Sony MH755
- and a banned product of which I cannot speak

Between these, i definitely love the MH755 for on-the-go listening and for gaming, they're awesome.
The V90 are extremely good as well but treble can be a bit fatiguing some times..
The ZSX fit is painful after 15-20 min and I do not think they are something really new in the KZ lineup, I do not like their tonality..

Will post my accurate reviews in the next weeks as I am still reviewing the MH751 for Cooler Master now and got no time for it, but I'm using every single new IEM while I go out for a walk or when I am studying at home.








MH755 are simply awesome anyway



Forgot saying the MH755 are awesome


----------



## teus

I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't find the ZSX comfortable to wear.


----------



## shockdoc (Oct 22, 2019)

nxnje said:


> Got some IEMs in the last weeks:
> - TRN V90
> - KZ ZSX
> - Sony MH755
> ...




Where did you get the Sony MH755? I've heard there are a LOT of fakes out there like there are of the Samsung AKG's.


----------



## nxnje

shockdoc said:


> Where did you get the Sony MH755? I've heard there are a LOT of fakes out there like there are of the Samsung AKG's.



This is the link from where I have bought my legit MH755. 
I have checked both the serial number and the production date as well and everything seems ok, so a good reason to share this. 
I hope many of you pull the trigger on this very cheap pair of IEMs if you still don't have them because they're seriously a must-have in an IEMs' collection.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/283470015701

Just a thing, even if probably you already know.
Buy an extension 3.5mm jack cord (1m is more than enough and maybe 50cm are good too) in order to use them comfortably as I couldn't use them if I tried to put it in my trousers' pocket.


----------



## Assimilator702

teus said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't find the ZSX comfortable to wear.



Why would you say that? My ears aren’t very large. For reference the original ZS10 was way too large for me. As soon as I would get a seal they would pop out. I ditched those real quick. The ZSX is not suppose to fit in the ear straight up and down it’s intended to fit at a diagonal into the natural shape of the ear. 

LOOKING at the ZSX one could come to the conclusion that it’s  bulky and ill fitting mess but that conclusion would be the furthest from the truth.

I do use a smaller tip than normal but that’s due to the extended reach of the nozzle. I could see many people making the same mistake as I did initially in using my go to tips.


----------



## teus

well, if it looks weird... usually not a good sign, since 2 out of my 3 KZ earphones are very uncomfortable to wear.
I wonder why nobody makes a 3D model of IEM's, you 3D print the model, and then you can test how well it fits your ear.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've had 3 KZs (ZS5, ZS6, ZSX) and literally zero fit/comfort issues with any of them. I caution against anyone making blanket statements on comfort. You can say how it feels for you, but to expand that into "well this is how it is for everyone" is just dishonest.


----------



## teus

Most KZ IEM's are quite big, so fitment is not as "easy" as with other brands. They're cranking out countless IEM models, try all sorts of designs, it's chi-fi, and mistakes happen. 
I'm not writing an article or publishing anything, and I'm not some sort of reference. Just my opinion, no need to talk about fitment with terms like "blanket statement" or "dishonest". Fitment is always very relative. 
I have the KZ ZS5, besides bulky they also have sharp edges. The ZSR have incredibly long nozzles, for me they're impossible to wear. It's well documented. The ED16 are more compact and only have smooth edges, which makes them very easy to wear.


----------



## westsenkovec

Thinking about modding my ZS6. At least I'm going to change the cable. From what I've seen there are three gens. The second looks and feels the best but it has wires in the ear hooks and it oxidizes. Which one should I get?

Did anyone try to mess with the internals of the ZS6?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

teus said:


> Most KZ IEM's are quite big, so fitment is not as "easy" as with other brands. They're cranking out countless IEM models, try all sorts of designs, it's chi-fi, and mistakes happen.
> I'm not writing an article or publishing anything, and I'm not some sort of reference. Just my opinion, no need to talk about fitment with terms like "blanket statement" or "dishonest". Fitment is always very relative.
> I have the KZ ZS5, besides bulky they also have sharp edges. The ZSR have incredibly long nozzles, for me they're impossible to wear. It's well documented. The ED16 are more compact and only have smooth edges, which makes them very easy to wear.



I mean a couple posts ago you did say you figured most people would find the ZSX uncomfortable but hey whatever maybe you ran a survey.


----------



## chinmie

teus said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't find the ZSX comfortable to wear.



i thought based on most reviews I've read/watched, most people find the ZSX to be comfortable? that protruding part might be a problem for some, but for me personally (and most of my friends) that shape is in fact hugs the ears better and more secure


----------



## emeraldstone

Caipirina said:


> I actually meant to quote @emeraldstone who said "They are ~6mm. @Keputs uses the CP155 on the ZSX." ... and you responded to that and somehow I ended up quoting that then
> 
> I am so done with wires (especially in gym / when running) I am really happy using my top KZs on the TRN BT20 ...  I like the ZS pro and the ZSX for more fun, thumpy, forgiving (i.e. lossy streams from Mixcloud) music, while the AS16 are fantastic for classic, everything orchestral or lush ambient FLAC files ...





SomeGuyDude said:


> No clue what the CP155 would fit better, i'm using the 145 and definitely a huge fan. Got the ES100 clipped to my belt and I seriously think I've found near-endgame for portable (unless the A16 is really that much better).
> 
> Might not stick with these in the gym, though. At least not without some foam tips to keep them in place. Silicone gets slippery when wet.


When I measure the actual size of the nozzle, the outer part (where to silver screen is) is 5.5mm (therefore the 145 is stetched as shown in your pictures) but I do not have a caliper to measure the inner diameter (however the silver nozzle length is 6mm). I do not have SpinFits (using foam atm) but @Keputs may be able to give more feedback.


----------



## Slater

westsenkovec said:


> Thinking about modding my ZS6. At least I'm going to change the cable. From what I've seen there are three gens. The second looks and feels the best but it has wires in the ear hooks and it oxidizes. Which one should I get?
> 
> Did anyone try to mess with the internals of the ZS6?



ZS6 oxidizes?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Oct 23, 2019)

Slater said:


> ZS6 oxidizes?



Maybe he meant one of the upgrade cables?  That silver one that turns green?

Speaking of ZS6,  I recently treated mine to a pretty new cable.... 8 core bronze color balanced by FDBRO

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33062590820.html

A new look gives it new life for me and I still love the sound.  I paid $7.88.  Also available in silver or black.  MMCX or two pin.  Also IE80 connectors but I have no idea what that is.


----------



## Podster (Oct 23, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe he meant one of the upgrade cables?  That silver one that turns green?
> 
> Speaking of ZS6,  I recently treated mine to a pretty new cable.... 8 core bronze color balanced by FDBRO
> 
> ...



Nice looking cable MB, seems like a thicker version of the one KZ made some time back. I bought some of those in both A & B configs as well as the black versions! I've changed out so many KZ cables I've lost track





It was the ZS6 Tri-Braid that oxidized so bad but @Slater has a remedy for that which works very nicely.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So what is our best sub-$30 cable, eh? The L-jack and lack of chin slider is irritating me so I'm in the market for a replacement.


----------



## Podster

SomeGuyDude said:


> So what is our best sub-$30 cable, eh? The L-jack and lack of chin slider is irritating me so I'm in the market for a replacement.



Mine is the Tripowin C8 and then the YY, Nice & Kinboofi 8/16 cores are nice for the price ranging from $8 to $25


----------



## westsenkovec

mbwilson111 said:


> Maybe he meant one of the upgrade cables?  That silver one that turns green?
> 
> Speaking of ZS6,  I recently treated mine to a pretty new cable.... 8 core bronze color balanced by FDBRO
> 
> ...



Yes, that's what I've meant. I also liked the sound but it's fatiguing after a while. And they are loud. With all the drivers I thought the would be harder to drive on the phone but they are too loud for me on the first step.
I'll try to kill the highs with some modding. 

Which one should I get, the one you linked or this one: 

https://www.gearbest.com/headphone-accessories/pp_009131657854.html?wid=1433363#goodsDetail

I need 3,5 unbalanced.



Podster said:


> Nice looking cable MB, seems like a thicker version of the one KZ made some time back. I bought some of those in both A & B configs as well as the black versions! I've changed out so many KZ cables I've lost track
> 
> 
> 
> It was the ZS6 Tri-Braid that oxidized so bad but @Slater has a remedy for that which works very nicely.



What was the remedy?


----------



## Fransuaa

Well, I ordered KZ ZSX... Dont really know if I did the best choice... How much could the Blon price drop for 11/11? And what would I do with 2 sets of earphones? So many doubts


----------



## Podster

westsenkovec said:


> Yes, that's what I've meant. I also liked the sound but it's fatiguing after a while. And they are loud. With all the drivers I thought the would be harder to drive on the phone but they are too loud for me on the first step.
> I'll try to kill the highs with some modding.
> 
> Which one should I get, the one you linked or this one:
> ...



Strategy change, I now order iem's for my cables


----------



## Caipirina

Podster said:


> Strategy change, I now order iem's for my cables



And then, to top things off, how about some music to play your gear with?


----------



## Podster

That’s the easy part Cai, judt start randommplay play of your faves


----------



## Caipirina

Podster said:


> That’s the easy part Cai, judt start randommplay play of your faves


I was referencing the old saying ‘audiophiles don’t buy gear to listen to music, they buy music to listen to their gear’


----------



## vsha

considering the AS10. the noise isolation rating on rtings is what piqued my interest the most. 

Is there a more isolating IEM out there for the price? Has KZ made more/equally isolating IEMs since?


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 24, 2019)

Fransuaa said:


> Well, I ordered KZ ZSX... Dont really know if I did the best choice... How much could the Blon price drop for 11/11? And what would I do with 2 sets of earphones? So many doubts



Haha I have 20 IEMs actually, different IEMs for different moods and music genres. I think some like @mbwilson111 and @HungryPanda may have more. I need to see a psychologist soon about these hoarding tendencies LOL.
Anyway, the lowest I've seen the BLON go was @ $25 USD on taobao and shoppee. I got it at that price with some vouchers on aliexpress too, but just wait till 11/11 if u can, it's only a couple of weeks away. U can probably stack multiple coupons and get the BLON at a cheaper price I suspect.



vsha said:


> considering the AS10. the noise isolation rating on rtings is what piqued my interest the most.
> 
> Is there a more isolating IEM out there for the price? Has KZ made more/equally isolating IEMs since?



TBH I don't really trust rtings for IEMs, YMMV. But noise isolation is quite dependant on eartips, so I would advise u to try tiprolling. Sometimes foam tips may provide better isolation than silicone ones too. I read in the forums that the KZ ZS4 and ZS3E have great isolation, though I don't own them, so maybe u can check with the rest.

I don't have the AS10, but I can get about -15 dB isolation with the KZ ZS10 Pro with spinfits. Some of my bandmates use the KZ AS10 for live performances (they stand next to a full set acoustic drum) and I don't see any of them with ringing in their ears at the end haha.
Not sure if the newer ZSX has better isolation as I don't have it.


----------



## SoundChoice

Fransuaa said:


> And what would I do with 2 sets of earphones?



Realize that you're missing out on a plethora of sounds and signatures, then go out and buy 10 more.


----------



## mbwilson111

Caipirina said:


> I was referencing the old saying ‘audiophiles don’t buy gear to listen to music, they buy music to listen to their gear’



...as quoted in my signature... the gear serves the music.

I have been a music lover my whole life.  I have been a Headfi member for less than three years.


----------



## CardigdanWalk

So It seems KZ is now using a narrower nozzle size compared to before?

(old models like KZ5 vs new ones like KZ T1 and E10)

All my old foam tips are too big and stay in my ear when I take the earphones out my ear!

Anyone know what ones / size I should be going for on AliExpress now?

thanks in advance


----------



## loomisjohnson

vsha said:


> considering the AS10. the noise isolation rating on rtings is what piqued my interest the most.
> 
> Is there a more isolating IEM out there for the price? Has KZ made more/equally isolating IEMs since?


the zs4 and zs3 have really great isolation


----------



## Detectit

Can someone help me. There is a thread where different Chifi cables are tested. I forgot to bookmark it and can't found it now.


----------



## genck

Detectit said:


> Can someone help me. There is a thread where different Chifi cables are tested. I forgot to bookmark it and can't found it now.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/resistance-of-cables-pics-comments-and-links.907998/#post-14985640


----------



## Slater

Detectit said:


> Can someone help me. There is a thread where different Chifi cables are tested. I forgot to bookmark it and can't found it now.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low-end-cheap-generic-otherwise-bang-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/


----------



## Phantomize

I haven't followed the Chi-Fi releases in a while and I'm looking for a new set of IEMs. I would like to purchase something with a similar fit to the KZ ZSN/ZS5 (as the KZ ZS10 fit me rather poorly) but with a better soundstage and overall better audio quality. Would the KZ ZS10 Pro or the KZ ZSX Terminator be good IEMs in my situation? Or do you have other recommendations for other KZ IEMs or even other brands?


----------



## Krassi

KZ ZSX Terminator are big potatoes in your ears.. my first iems and havent used them ever..i dondt care about the sound if i have a potatoe in my ears 
Also i hate those 2 pin things


----------



## Mouseman

Krassi said:


> KZ ZSX Terminator are big potatoes in your ears.. my first iems and havent used them ever..i dondt care about the sound if i have a potatoe in my ears
> Also i hate those 2 pin things


You are missing out. I just put on the Radio Shack medium tips and they added even more than the Starlines. The ZSXs are amazing sounding, even notwithstanding the price.


----------



## HungryPanda

I agree KZ ZSX are excellent iems, I'm using shallow wide bore tips on mine and they sound great


----------



## Krassi (Oct 25, 2019)

ok so nice to know  i should give them a more love.. just need an adapter for mmcx because i dondt want to use the potatoe cables that i got for this... well i wont buy adapters.. sorry KS ZSX.. press "F"
I am just so happy with Tin p1 and Shuoere Tape (i cant spell this stupid name.. sorry.. never works  )  that can be driven to the mars on my E1DA PowerdacV2 and 9038s mobile

Well they wont run away those KSs 
I guess with some eqing they cold be really nice too.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

And I am now dangerously close to picking up a balanced cable for the ZSX just to see what happens with the ES100 in balanced mode.


----------



## Mouseman

SomeGuyDude said:


> And I am now dangerously close to picking up a balanced cable for the ZSX just to see what happens with the ES100 in balanced mode.


It's pretty awesome. I was driving mine with the ES100 and a nice balanced cable (probably from the banned company), but since I got my R5, I swapped out for a 4.4 balanced cable and they basically haven't been unplugged for very long. The ZSX doesn't mind more power at all, but you'll have to notch the volume down at least a little. On the R5, I have to turn it down *a lot*. 

But the ES100 and a balanced cable will make for some happy ears.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> And I am now dangerously close to picking up a balanced cable for the ZSX just to see what happens with the ES100 in balanced mode.



Going to balanced on the ES100 you might hear a better stereo separation, but with an already wide soundstaged IEMs the difference might be minimal. Power-wise, i reckon the ZSX is similar to the ZS10Pro, so going balanced for more gain won't be necessary.
I usually use balanced on the ES100 for my high impedanced earbuds/headphone, or for IEMs that's more center focused soundstage.


----------



## courierdriver

Phantomize said:


> I haven't followed the Chi-Fi releases in a while and I'm looking for a new set of IEMs. I would like to purchase something with a similar fit to the KZ ZSN/ZS5 (as the KZ ZS10 fit me rather poorly) but with a better soundstage and overall better audio quality. Would the KZ ZS10 Pro or the KZ ZSX Terminator be good IEMs in my situation? Or do you have other recommendations for other KZ IEMs or even other brands?


I will try to help you out but I need some more info from you. First of all...what kind of genres of music do you mostly listen to? There is NO SUCH THING, as an earphone that "does it all the best". If you only listen to a specific genre or certain songs, it's easier to find the one iem that gives you the most enjoyment from that genre or select set of songs. If you like multiple genres (like I do), then you might wanna get several different sets to use when switching genres. Also, you don't mention the kind of sound signature that you like. Do you prefer bassy and warm, or highly detailed but more subdued in the bass? Forward midrange or laid back? Detailed treble or smooth with a big soundstage?


----------



## courierdriver

Phantomize said:


> I haven't followed the Chi-Fi releases in a while and I'm looking for a new set of IEMs. I would like to purchase something with a similar fit to the KZ ZSN/ZS5 (as the KZ ZS10 fit me rather poorly) but with a better soundstage and overall better audio quality. Would the KZ ZS10 Pro or the KZ ZSX Terminator be good IEMs in my situation? Or do you have other recommendations for other KZ IEMs or even other brands?


I will try to help you out but I need some more info from you. First of all...what kind of genres of music do you mostly listen to? There is NO SUCH THING, as an earphone that "does it all the best". If you only listen to a specific genre or certain songs, it's easier to find the one iem that gives you the most enjoyment from that genre or select set of songs. If you like multiple genres (like I do), then you might wanna get several different sets to use when switching genres. Also, you don't mention the kind of sound signature that you like. Do you prefer bassy and warm, or highly detailed but more subdued in the bass? Forward midrange or laid back? Detailed treble or smooth with a big soundstage? 
Edit: From what you have said in your post, fit seems to be a big priority. The ZS10 PRO shell is near identical to your ZSN/PRO, so you would definitely like the ZS10 PRO for comfort.


----------



## Slater

SomeGuyDude said:


> And I am now dangerously close to picking up a balanced cable for the ZSX just to see what happens with the ES100 in balanced mode.



Just remember that you must never plug or unplug the balanced cable to/from the ES100 *while music is playing*. Only do it while the unit is off or the music is paused. Otherwise, you can and will permanently damage the ES100.


----------



## baskingshark

Slater said:


> Just remember that you must never plug or unplug the balanced cable to/from the ES100 *while music is playing*. Only do it while the unit is off or the music is paused. Otherwise, you can and will permanently damage the ES100.



Hmm that's interesting, does this apply to all DAC/AMPs or only the ES100? Is it due to a surge of current?


----------



## Light - Man

citral23 said:


> I don't think the comment to which you replied made much sense, he said don't buy the KPE you'll regret it, instead go for its sidegrade the KXXS. Ahem.
> 
> Find a signature you like, on the cheap, is a good idea. If you like Harman target you'll like the KPE/KXXS. You can try a cheaper moondrop to get a taste for example.
> 
> ...



Hey Citral, do you still have the V2 rev 3? I have it about a week now and find it very good with foam tips.

I should have the Blon hype-train edition next week and am curious to see if it lives up to all the recent excitement..........................


----------



## citral23

Light - Man said:


> Hey Citral, do you still have the V2 rev 3? I have it about a week now and find it very good with foam tips.
> 
> I should have the Blon hype-train edition next week and am curious to see if it lives up to all the recent excitement..........................



I have it, but don't use it much, I use earbuds 90% of the time at work now and only take the V2 out when I need more isolation... which it doesn't really provide lol.

I still like its globally balanced tuning (I don't mean neutral, but that it's good all-around with no major flaw), but now that I'm accustomed to earbuds it has too much bass for me, bass that is also slow in decay, been spoiled with the extremely quick bass of the nicehck EBX and have a hard time going back now. (I use BK2 at work however as the EBX is too fatiguing on a lot of material, BK2 is a great all-rounder that is much warmer)

Blon I have and I think is super overhyped, BUT not if you're into ballads, (maybe pop? don't listen to that) or such. I'm listening mostly to hard-bop atm and apart from timbre that's really fantastic, they don't perform well for that genre (but maybe I have a dud, fast walking bass is slow and lags horribly on those). Still grab them when I want to listen to Ella Fitzgerald ballads for example, they really shine on slow material, female voices, sax...

I ordered the Tin T2 to compare with the V2, now that my taste has changed and I like less bass. Scared of the treble that many report as being too much, but we'll see, for 30€ no big deal.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> Just remember that you must never plug or unplug the balanced cable to/from the ES100 *while music is playing*. Only do it while the unit is off or the music is paused. Otherwise, you can and will permanently damage the ES100.



Not a concern, but I'm curious why that is. It seems so unusual.


----------



## Slater

baskingshark said:


> Hmm that's interesting, does this apply to all DAC/AMPs or only the ES100? Is it due to a surge of current?



It’s a hardware design with the ES100. It is my understanding that it was not a flaw; it was designed that way on purpose. Protection circuitry would have affected the sound, and they wanted the sound as clean and uncolored as possible.

The instructions mention this, and there is a warning that pops up in the app if it detects when you do it.

As far as other balanced devices, I don’t believe it is only specific to the ES100. I’m pretty sure there are other balanced devices that are ‘unprotected’. But it depends on each device.

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.


----------



## lgcubana

baskingshark said:


> Hmm that's interesting, does this apply to all DAC/AMPs or only the ES100? Is it due to a surge of current?


My Monolith AAA 788 also has this protection safeguard.  Even if your amp doesn't give you a warning or do a momentary pause, if you swap IEMs or headphones (during mid play), I would get into the practice of pausing/stopping the playback first, before doing the dirty.

In the Monoprice manual, they stipulate to this measure (of pausing the playback) to avoid *disparities that can occur when removing and installing a new plug; specific to the polarity/channels.  Also, your buds/phones will probably have a different impedance. It would make the most sense (to me) to give your amp a chance to handshake properly


----------



## gigaben

I took a stab at taming the treble on the ZS6.  Comply TX500 (with wax guard) helped a bit but treble was still too harsh for me.  I ended up buying a sheet of nozzle mesh from a IEM DIY store on taobao, sure you can get them on AE as well.  They have an adhesive along the outer rim of the mesh, easy to install and remove. These along with the TX500 seemed to do the trick, treble still has good extension but no longer piercing.


----------



## Slater

gigaben said:


> I took a stab at taming the treble on the ZS6.  Comply TX500 (with wax guard) helped a bit but treble was still too harsh for me.  I ended up buying a sheet of nozzle mesh from a IEM DIY store on taobao, sure you can get them on AE as well.  They have an adhesive along the outer rim of the mesh, easy to install and remove. These along with the TX500 seemed to do the trick, treble still has good extension but no longer piercing.



I have yet to find these in bulk on Aliexpress, and have been looking off and on for the last year or so.

If anyone knows of an Aliexpress seller that has these, I’d appreciate the info


----------



## Zerohour88

got the KZ ZSX for testing a whole week, surprising that the fit is quite good (the protrusions are misleading for fit from pics, tbh), also quite liked the tuning (not enough upper-mids for me, but it should be ok for everyone else). Very minor hiss out of my SE4 Sabre DAC, so it definitely needs a low OI source (sounded good and hiss-free out of the Apple dongle).

also I kinda get what ant meant by TOTL tuning, it really does sound like some of the TOTL I've tested before (albeit worse). Not gonna be throwing out the Andro or EX1000, for sure. Its a bit polite.

all in, as expected from KZ, gradual improvements for each newer models. I'll probably revisit their newer model after a year or so to see what's up.


----------



## lgcubana (Oct 26, 2019)

Slater said:


> I have yet to find these in bulk on Aliexpress, and have been looking off and on for the last year or so.
> 
> If anyone knows of an Aliexpress seller that has these, I’d appreciate the info


Self adhesive, Metal mesh, which could be layered (with an offset), for a filtering effect:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52

For myself, I'm looking at Balanced Armature Damping Damper Plugs filters, for my KZ ZS4:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/325...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> Self adhesive, Metal mesh, which could be layered (with an offset), for a filtering effect:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52
> 
> For myself, I'm looking at Balanced Armature Damping Damper Plugs filters, for my KZ ZS4:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/325...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52



Thanks for posting those. I was actually looking for the nylon fabric type, like the ones that were posted from Taobao.


----------



## Phantomize

courierdriver said:


> I will try to help you out but I need some more info from you. First of all...what kind of genres of music do you mostly listen to? There is NO SUCH THING, as an earphone that "does it all the best". If you only listen to a specific genre or certain songs, it's easier to find the one iem that gives you the most enjoyment from that genre or select set of songs. If you like multiple genres (like I do), then you might wanna get several different sets to use when switching genres. Also, you don't mention the kind of sound signature that you like. Do you prefer bassy and warm, or highly detailed but more subdued in the bass? Forward midrange or laid back? Detailed treble or smooth with a big soundstage?
> Edit: From what you have said in your post, fit seems to be a big priority. The ZS10 PRO shell is near identical to your ZSN/PRO, so you would definitely like the ZS10 PRO for comfort.



Thanks. Preferred genres are rock/metal/blues with some classical, jazz and house thrown into the mix as well. Sound signature wise, I'm seeking a detailed sound with a big soundstage (I hope that's enough information?).


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Phantomize said:


> I haven't followed the Chi-Fi releases in a while and I'm looking for a new set of IEMs. I would like to purchase something with a similar fit to the KZ ZSN/ZS5 (as the KZ ZS10 fit me rather poorly) but with a better soundstage and overall better audio quality. Would the KZ ZS10 Pro or the KZ ZSX Terminator be good IEMs in my situation? Or do you have other recommendations for other KZ IEMs or even other brands?



The Chi-Fi scene is new for me as well. But I have the ZS-10 Pro on my ears as I type this. It actually has pretty decent fit, it's reported to be more comfortable than the old ZS10. Can't tell you much about the ZS-10 Pro quality, though, as I haven't spent enough time with it.

What you might want to do is take a look at CCA as well, because that is a sister brand of KZ that retunes their components into what are often softer or more natural sounds. 

A new generation of KZ / CCA flagships just arrived, the ZSX and C12 are receiving positive reviews. And the 11.11 sale is coming up.

However, you might also want to look into the TFZ brand. Since you like soundstage and audio quality, you might want to consider the King Pro. It has maybe the best soundstage, detail retrieval, and imaging of anything I own. Downside is that it is a bit bright, and the tuning is not quite as natural as some of the better DD IEMs you can get.

Another, cheaper option is the TRN offerings. I bought a V80 last year for $26 that blows away anything in that price range in terms of soundstage and imaging, but it is a synthetic tuning and the mids are recessed. (If synthetic tuning is okay with you, also consider the **** **** for $16, people here like it for its technicalities). TRN V90 is now available, gonna buy it next.

People who are experienced here have been saying good things about the BQEYZ Spring 1 (not so bassy, but very good sound and allegedly BIG soundstage), the BQEYZ KB100 (deep soundstage, good separation, isolation), NiceHCK M6 (good separation) and NX7. 

For what it's worth, I'm finding the ZS7 the most interesting of the 5 KZ/CCA that I own. It has juiced treble and bass, producing a more exciting sound, serious bass, and seems to have a better soundstage than the other KZ/CCA. Housing fit and cable are problematic, though.


----------



## Nimweth

ShakeThoseCans said:


> The Chi-Fi scene is new for me as well. But I have the ZS-10 Pro on my ears as I type this. It actually has pretty decent fit, it's reported to be more comfortable than the old ZS10. Can't tell you much about the ZS-10 Pro quality, though, as I haven't spent enough time with it.
> 
> What you might want to do is take a look at CCA as well, because that is a sister brand of KZ that retunes their components into what are often softer or more natural sounds.
> 
> ...


Yes,I love my ZS7 too. I can tell you now, you're going to love the V90, it's a refined version of the ZS7 and I'm really enjoying it right now!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

That's good to hear about the V90. I'm really looking forward to it.

You know, my ZS7 is worth improving. Might I ask if I should I use this upgrade cable that I already have:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32953432742.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dur1toc

or get this cheap one?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...1.0&pvid=545ef63e-65a2-4e7d-a83b-5c2f27786fcf


----------



## vsha (Oct 26, 2019)

just received my AS10 and it isolates just as well as I had hoped


----------



## courierdriver

Phantomize said:


> Thanks. Preferred genres are rock/metal/blues with some classical, jazz and house thrown into the mix as well. Sound signature wise, I'm seeking a detailed sound with a big soundstage (I hope that's enough information?).


Sorry, I'm a bit late getting back to you. Please read the other posts by other headfiers before this one. I mostly agree with what's been said already. You did previously mention though,  that you liked the ZSN/PRO fit, and that fit was important to you. Based on that, I would rec the KZ ZS10 PRO for the genres you mostly like (can't vouch for classical, because I don't really listen to it much). An iem that I own, which has really started to impress me with many of the same genres that you have listed, is the TFZ NO.3. House/dance is great with this set, as is metal and blues. Bass is a bit warm and seems to bleed a bit into the lower mids, but it gives a nice naturalness to the tonality of instruments and male voices. Bass is also very defined, and goes deep into sub bass for some good, thumpin fun. It's also got some good stage, but not as good as a more expensive Moondrop Kanas PRO. Highs are detailed, but not as satisfying or with as much resolution as something like the Nicehck NX7. I think that's why I like the ZS10 PRO. It's kinda in between the TFZ NO.3 and the Nicehck NX7. BTW, all these iems are very comfortable (for my ears anyway).


----------



## stryed

Nimweth said:


> Yes,I love my ZS7 too. I can tell you now, you're going to love the V90, it's a refined version of the ZS7 and I'm really enjoying it right now!


Does the trn V90 HAVE A LARGE SOUNSTAGE? How does it compare to kz zs7 and latest cca C12 & zxs? I like the old kz zs5 for its soundstage which I think the kz zs7 should share.


----------



## Phantomize

ShakeThoseCans said:


> The Chi-Fi scene is new for me as well. But I have the ZS-10 Pro on my ears as I type this. It actually has pretty decent fit, it's reported to be more comfortable than the old ZS10. Can't tell you much about the ZS-10 Pro quality, though, as I haven't spent enough time with it.
> 
> What you might want to do is take a look at CCA as well, because that is a sister brand of KZ that retunes their components into what are often softer or more natural sounds.
> 
> ...





courierdriver said:


> Sorry, I'm a bit late getting back to you. Please read the other posts by other headfiers before this one. I mostly agree with what's been said already. You did previously mention though,  that you liked the ZSN/PRO fit, and that fit was important to you. Based on that, I would rec the KZ ZS10 PRO for the genres you mostly like (can't vouch for classical, because I don't really listen to it much). An iem that I own, which has really started to impress me with many of the same genres that you have listed, is the TFZ NO.3. House/dance is great with this set, as is metal and blues. Bass is a bit warm and seems to bleed a bit into the lower mids, but it gives a nice naturalness to the tonality of instruments and male voices. Bass is also very defined, and goes deep into sub bass for some good, thumpin fun. It's also got some good stage, but not as good as a more expensive Moondrop Kanas PRO. Highs are detailed, but not as satisfying or with as much resolution as something like the Nicehck NX7. I think that's why I like the ZS10 PRO. It's kinda in between the TFZ NO.3 and the Nicehck NX7. BTW, all these iems are very comfortable (for my ears anyway).



Thank you both for the amazingly detailed response! I was a bit lost on what my options were but now I got a good idea on what I can look into. You've really helped me a lot!


----------



## Nimweth

stryed said:


> Does the trn V90 HAVE A LARGE SOUNSTAGE? How does it compare to kz zs7 and latest cca C12 & zxs? I like the old kz zs5 for its soundstage which I think the kz zs7 should share.


Yes, the V90 has a very good soundstage, with excellent imaging and positioning of elements within it. Sub bass is equal to ZS7 but treble is smoother and more extended. Not as recessed in the mids and just as exciting as ZS7. I prefer both of these to the ZSX and C12.


----------



## Nimweth

ShakeThoseCans said:


> That's good to hear about the V90. I'm really looking forward to it.
> 
> You know, my ZS7 is worth improving. Might I ask if I should I use this upgrade cable that I already have:
> 
> ...


Any upgrade cable should be an improvement over the stock KZ cable. I have a silver plated one from a banned brand on Ali Express, it is blue and silver in colour and suits the ZS7 very well.


----------



## Detectit (Oct 27, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> And I am now dangerously close to picking up a balanced cable for the ZSX just to see what happens with the ES100 in balanced mode.


 

I can recommend you the Kbear balanced cable. Great quality plugs and nice feel to the cable.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3218#post-15214612


----------



## redrol (Oct 27, 2019)

The KZ TWS E10 is really really nice.  My favorite KZ actually.  Heck of a nice refined harmanish sound.  Thumbs up for sure.

I get around 8-10 hours on a single charge.  The range is great.  Sound is exciting overall but not harsh in any way. Bass goes quite deep.  Whats not to love?!  By far the best TWS iems I've heard.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

redrol said:


> The KZ TWS E10 is really really nice.  My favorite KZ actually.  Heck of a nice refined harmanish sound.  Thumbs up for sure.
> 
> I get around 8-10 hours on a single charge.  The range is great.  Sound is exciting overall but not harsh in any way. Bass goes quite deep.  Whats not to love?!  By far the best TWS iems I've heard.


8-10 is no joke. :shocked:

I was super impressed when the new House of Marleys came out a few months ago and were claiming 9-10 hours for TWS. Amazing how much things are improving YoY.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 27, 2019)

redrol said:


> The KZ TWS E10 is really really nice.  My favorite KZ actually.  Heck of a nice refined harmanish sound.  Thumbs up for sure.
> 
> I get around 8-10 hours on a single charge.  The range is great.  Sound is exciting overall but not harsh in any way. Bass goes quite deep.  Whats not to love?!  By far the best TWS iems I've heard.



If u could compare this set to one of the other hybrid KZs or CHIFI gear, which set does it sound most similar to in terms of sound quality?


----------



## darmanastartes

Detectit said:


> I can recommend you the Kbear balanced cable. Great quality plugs and nice feel to the cable.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3218#post-15214612


The KBEAR cable is great, I have one on my ZSX.


----------



## redrol

baskingshark said:


> If u could compare this set to one of the other hybrid KZs or CHIFI gear, which set does it sound most similar to in terms of sound quality?



It's kinda unique to me.  I dont have anything that sounds similar and I own a bunch of KZ including the ZSX.
.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Nimweth said:


> Any upgrade cable should be an improvement over the stock KZ cable. I have a silver plated one from a banned brand on Ali Express, it is blue and silver in colour and suits the ZS7 very well.



Oh man, I almost bought that one during the August sale! It was discounted!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

citral23 said:


> I have it, but don't use it much, I use earbuds 90% of the time at work now and only take the V2 out when I need more isolation... which it doesn't really provide lol.
> 
> I still like its globally balanced tuning (I don't mean neutral, but that it's good all-around with no major flaw), but now that I'm accustomed to earbuds it has too much bass for me, bass that is also slow in decay, been spoiled with the extremely quick bass of the nicehck EBX and have a hard time going back now.
> 
> I ordered the Tin T2 to compare with the V2, now that my taste has changed and I like less bass. Scared of the treble that many report as being too much, but we'll see, for 30€ no big deal.



Are you referring to the (banned) Y***** V2? I have the first edition, from when it was new, and I like it for ballads, 'comedown' music, and the like (...sad music).

I saw that it had a "third tuning" during the August sale, and almost bought it for $30. But I already kinda like mine, so I'm not sure if the third tuning will be better or worse. Do you know of the difference between tunings?


----------



## citral23

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Are you referring to the (banned) Y***** V2? I have the first edition, from when it was new, and I like it for ballads, 'comedown' music, and the like (...sad music).
> 
> I saw that it had a "third tuning" during the August sale, and almost bought it for $30. But I already kinda like mine, so I'm not sure if the third tuning will be better or worse. Do you know of the difference between tunings?



Indeed referring to the v3, sorry haven't compared with earlier versions. There are not that many cable down iems that have 2 pins, so why not get the rev3 at discount, if that aspect matters to you, it's said on internets to be largely the best tuning.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans (Oct 28, 2019)

Phantomize said:


> Thanks. Preferred genres are rock/metal/blues with some classical, jazz and house thrown into the mix as well. Sound signature wise, I'm seeking a detailed sound with a big soundstage (I hope that's enough information?).



I forgot to mention in that rundown I gave you that people also speak very highly of the Toneking Ninetails. It allegedly has good characteristics, including soundstage, and you can customize the sound 'shape' with 9 different filters. I would have bought one for myself, but it has weak isolation, and I was looking for an isolating IEM. If isolation isn't an issue, the Ninetails should give you really good sound in that price bracket.

EDIT: Also, there's a current hypetrain IEM called the Blon BL-03. I didn't recommend it at first because it is more suited to your secondary needs (classical and jazz), since it has a good timbre.

But you might want to check out this helpful review, which compares the BL-03 to other current favourites, because it will educate you a little about the other favourite IEMs:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/blon-bl-03.23894/reviews#review-22744


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## DynamicEars (Oct 28, 2019)

redrol said:


> The KZ TWS E10 is really really nice.  My favorite KZ actually.  Heck of a nice refined harmanish sound.  Thumbs up for sure.
> 
> I get around 8-10 hours on a single charge.  The range is great.  Sound is exciting overall but not harsh in any way. Bass goes quite deep.  Whats not to love?!  By far the best TWS iems I've heard.



compared to BLON BL-03?

ow you have zsx too.. compared to BL-03 and ZSX then please!


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## danspy (Oct 28, 2019)

hello,

i just got the ZS10 pro, wow the sound aggressive in the uppermids.

a 2mm piece of porous foam under the metalcap in the nozzle and they sound like the ZS5 with a little more details and better center.


----------



## raccoon city (Oct 28, 2019)

Is the "A" version of this cable...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33043802472.html
...better than the stock cable that comes with the KZ ZS7?

EDIT:
Nevermind.
I read some reviews on AliExpress, and this cable is good enough for me.


----------



## danspy

redrol said:


> The KZ TWS E10 is really really nice.  My favorite KZ actually.  Heck of a nice refined harmanish sound.  Thumbs up for sure.
> 
> I get around 8-10 hours on a single charge.  The range is great.  Sound is exciting overall but not harsh in any way. Bass goes quite deep.  Whats not to love?!  By far the best TWS iems I've heard.



looks good, i just ordered one.

i was searching for aptx TWS for a wile now.


----------



## teus (Oct 28, 2019)

I just got the KZ ZS10 pro in the mail. Massive improvement over the ZS5, but of course there's already several generations in between (ZS6, ZS7).
Fitment is great. Slightly long nozzles, smooth round shapes, wears very comfortably in bed. Seems to hold quite snug into my earcup, the whole construction feels very natural. Finally ridges on the nozzles, to keep the eartips in place. The new cable/connector seems okay, but the cable doesn't tell you what is left or right. You have to figure it out from the shape of the connectors.
I hope the new protruding connector isn't prone to breaking. I might order a few spare connectors. The screws to disassemble them are extremely small.


----------



## nxnje

Assimilator702 said:


> Why would you say that? My ears aren’t very large. For reference the original ZS10 was way too large for me. As soon as I would get a seal they would pop out. I ditched those real quick. The ZSX is not suppose to fit in the ear straight up and down it’s intended to fit at a diagonal into the natural shape of the ear.
> 
> LOOKING at the ZSX one could come to the conclusion that it’s  bulky and ill fitting mess but that conclusion would be the furthest from the truth.
> 
> I do use a smaller tip than normal but that’s due to the extended reach of the nozzle. I could see many people making the same mistake as I did initially in using my go to tips.


I agree about the fact that many of the housings are bulky, for example TRN makes much smoother shells and smaller IEMs, but I even agree that what is uncomfortable to me can be comfortable to soneone else. 
I have ZSX and ZS7 as well with my ZS6, ZS10 Pro, and more KZ earphones and I personally find the ZSX uncomfortable to me after a short use (like 20mins) but hey, it's me. I have some friends who love them. I even hate the ZS3 but most of us love them and say they fit like a glove. 
IEMs are 90% down to personal preference, and way harder to manage if compared to over/on ear headphones.



teus said:


> I just got the KZ ZS10 in the mail. Massive improvement over the ZS5, but of course there's already several generations in between (ZS6, ZS7).
> Fitment is great. Slightly long nozzles, smooth round shapes, wears very comfortably in bed. Seems to hold quite snug into my earcup, the whole construction feels very natural. Finally ridges on the nozzles, to keep the eartips in place. The new cable/connector seems okay, but the cable doesn't tell you what is left or right. You have to figure it out from the shape of the connectors.
> I hope the new protruding connector isn't prone to breaking. I might order a few spare connectors. The screws to disassemble them are extremely small.


Maybe you mean the new ZS10 Pro and not the original ZS10.




ANYWAY
I got my CCA C12 and I can say I love them. I even prefer them to my ZSX.


----------



## teus

nxnje said:


> Maybe you mean the new ZS10 Pro and not the original ZS10.
> 
> ANYWAY
> I got my CCA C12 and I can say I love them. I even prefer them to my ZSX.


oh. yes, indeed! ZS10 pro. 
i'm using it with a fiio BTR1K. I should probably look into equalisation now. this combination is pretty nice: good value, good build quality, sound quality is more than sufficient.


----------



## danspy

teus said:


> oh. yes, indeed! ZS10 pro.
> i'm using it with a fiio BTR1K. I should probably look into equitation now. this combination is pretty nice: good value, good build quality, sound quality is more than sufficient.


 
why you need equitation if the sound quality is more than sufficient?


----------



## Slater

teus said:


> I just got the KZ ZS10 pro in the mail.
> 
> I hope the new protruding connector isn't prone to breaking. I might order a few spare connectors. The screws to disassemble them are extremely small.



It’s not a common problem, but it has happened to a few people:


----------



## teus

ouch!
I'm already replacing MMCX connectors on other IEM (BGVP DMG), hoping they're better quality and not cut out all the time


danspy said:


> why you need equitation if the sound quality is more than sufficient?


because I'm curious, and because nothing is perfect.  well, maybe there's no need for equalizing if I spend 10-100 times as much money.


----------



## crabdog

While the KZ E10 is a good earphone it's not without issues and feels like another one that was rushed to ride the early TWS adopters wave. My review is live for anyone interested.


----------



## Podster (Oct 28, 2019)

crabdog said:


> While the KZ E10 is a good earphone it's not without issues and feels like another one that was rushed to ride the early TWS adopters wave. My review is live for anyone interested.



THX for the great review Mr. Crabs, have been looking at them for the wife for running. On the BT cutout is it a distance thing? She wears her phone on her arm so the ear pieces would be closer than say beltline like I wear mine

So looking at my current KZ Inventory these are those that have survived with me out of what was surely over 3 dozen since I started buying KZ's. He obviously liked his ZS6's enough to buy 3 colors


----------



## crabdog

Podster said:


> THX for the great review Mr. Crabs, have been looking at them for the wife for running. On the BT cutout is it a distance thing? She wears her phone on her arm so the ear pieces would be closer than say beltline like I wear mine
> 
> So looking at my current KZ Inventory these are those that have survived with me out of what was surely over 3 dozen since I started buying KZ's. He obviously liked his ZS6's enough to buy 3 colors


No, it's not a distance thing. Even with my phone or DAP sitting on the desk right in front of me or in my pocket it would randomly cut out pretty regularly. YMMV though, maybe I just have a lot of water (or poop) in my head that messes with the signal.


----------



## Podster

crabdog said:


> No, it's not a distance thing. Even with my phone or DAP sitting on the desk right in front of me or in my pocket it would randomly cut out pretty regularly. YMMV though, maybe I just have a lot of water (or poop) in my head that messes with the signal.



Obviously the Metal Plate from the War I really like the look, driver count and was thinking they looked like they would stay on but not sure how she would deal with cutout


----------



## DynamicEars

crabdog said:


> While the KZ E10 is a good earphone it's not without issues and feels like another one that was rushed to ride the early TWS adopters wave. My review is live for anyone interested.



Nice review as always! aside from good reviews, the E10 themselves seems like inferior from ZSX in terms on sound quality. I guess they have that steely / metallic timbre again? and peaky high mids. Quite a look though with all blacks


----------



## Podster

DynamicEars said:


> Nice review as always! aside from good reviews, the E10 themselves seems like inferior from ZSX in terms on sound quality. I guess they have that steely / metallic timbre again? and peaky high mids. Quite a look though with all blacks



I'm not even sure my wife would even pick up the High Mid freq. stuff but she would sure let me know they cut in and out Speaking of the ZSX been in mine all morning again and I'm not sure which designer at KZ did them but I still say they were heavily inspired by General Grievous


----------



## danspy (Oct 29, 2019)

ok my bad.


----------



## Keputs

emeraldstone said:


> When I measure the actual size of the nozzle, the outer part (where to silver screen is) is 5.5mm (therefore the 145 is stetched as shown in your pictures) but I do not have a caliper to measure the inner diameter (however the silver nozzle length is 6mm). I do not have SpinFits (using foam atm) but @Keputs may be able to give more feedback.



Now that i've been using the large spinfits cp155 on my ZSX for a couple of months, I can say that perhaps the 145 would have a tighter fit on the nozzles. Due to regular use for the past weeks,  the left and right tips finally unplugged from the nozzles and were left in my ears. Happened only once. I tried the large 145s on it and, indeed it was more difficult to insert on the ZSX nozzle. Still, I can live with the slight looseness as I prefer the extended length of the 155 (11mm vs.the 145s 10.11mm) which  penetrates deeper in my ear canal resulting in a better seal and sound. Just have to be a little extra careful. And that's Ok with me.


----------



## khighly

danspy said:


> yes the Bluetooth cutouts are no surprise to me, because the ear-hooks statically couple the antenna energy and trapping it behind the ears.


That's not how antennas work or radiate. Your ear is invisible to 2.4Ghz bluetooth. You may get antenna inefficiencies from interference with water in your body, but any good design would account for that. Even with efficiencies, light would still scatter.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> It’s not a common problem, but it has happened to a few people:



Oh man that is a pisser! So Slater have you been getting my PM's? Been trying to ping you but not heard back


----------



## teus

bluetooth cutting out, at short range, sounds like sloppy development to me. unacceptable, even.


----------



## Mouseman

I just received my E10s today, and I'm sorry to confirm all the other reports. The Bluetooth is possibly the worst I've used in years (since the early days of BT 2.0 when 2 feet away was too far). These things cut out when my phone is *in my pants pocket. *In case you're wondering, no, my slacks don't have a Faraday cage in them. This is ridiculous - the "beta test" TWS they put out kicked this pair's butt. The sound is nice, but having to keep my phone basically in the line of sight is a deal breaker. I guess they need to stick to wired and leave the TWS to companies who don't have cranial-rectal inversion issues.


----------



## Ynot1

Bad solder joints have been known to cause intermod. I wouldn't be surprised some with golden ears on here can detect intermod distortions.


----------



## DynamicEars

Mouseman said:


> I just received my E10s today, and I'm sorry to confirm all the other reports. The Bluetooth is possibly the worst I've used in years (since the early days of BT 2.0 when 2 feet away was too far). These things cut out when my phone is *in my pants pocket. *In case you're wondering, no, my slacks don't have a Faraday cage in them. This is ridiculous - the "beta test" TWS they put out kicked this pair's butt. The sound is nice, but having to keep my phone basically in the line of sight is a deal breaker. I guess they need to stick to wired and leave the TWS to companies who don't have cranial-rectal inversion issues.



so they still weak on BT tech, just like their BT modules. Hopefully they can fix it someday. Thanks for your honest information


----------



## nraymond

In another thread someone mentioned Sedna Earfit ear tips, which I've never heard of before, and out of curiosity, I bought some - I was intrigued by the idea of an ear tip which was both wide bore and promised to raise the treble in the >10kHz range while leaving most of the other frequencies alone (most wide bores I have either raise the bass, or lower the treble, or raise the bass and treble). Anyway, I've been trying the Sedna tips on my earphones, and I stopped at the ZS7, which previously just hadn't gotten along with me with any tips I'd tried. For my ears, the raising of the >10kHz treble by Sedna tips seem to be just the ticket! I really like the ZS7 now.


----------



## Podster

nraymond said:


> In another thread someone mentioned Sedna Earfit ear tips, which I've never heard of before, and out of curiosity, I bought some - I was intrigued by the idea of an ear tip which was both wide bore and promised to raise the treble in the >10kHz range while leaving most of the other frequencies alone (most wide bores I have either raise the bass, or lower the treble, or raise the bass and treble). Anyway, I've been trying the Sedna tips on my earphones, and I stopped at the ZS7, which previously just hadn't gotten along with me with any tips I'd tried. For my ears, the raising of the >10kHz treble by Sedna tips seem to be just the ticket! I really like the ZS7 now.



You broke it down in a nutshell, I remember once thinking about tossing all my spare tips but in most cases with iem's they are the key. I truly believe way too many people let iem's go because they've just not spent the time to get the tips that not only fit the iem but you ear as well. I think I have it in my signature these days and to take you back to one of my dad's favorite actors quotes from the "Guns of Will Sonnett" (I'm sure a lot of you young bucks won't know who I'm talking about) but he always used the line "No brags, just facts".

Now that I think about that would be a great candidates slogan especially in today's political climate Oh no he deent


----------



## DynamicEars

nraymond said:


> In another thread someone mentioned Sedna Earfit ear tips, which I've never heard of before, and out of curiosity, I bought some - I was intrigued by the idea of an ear tip which was both wide bore and promised to raise the treble in the >10kHz range while leaving most of the other frequencies alone (most wide bores I have either raise the bass, or lower the treble, or raise the bass and treble). Anyway, I've been trying the Sedna tips on my earphones, and I stopped at the ZS7, which previously just hadn't gotten along with me with any tips I'd tried. For my ears, the raising of the >10kHz treble by Sedna tips seem to be just the ticket! I really like the ZS7 now.



Nice, in fact, they fitted like spiral dots, but without the dots, made highs not as dull and imaging not as blurry as spiral dots. I'm using sedna for my BLON and ZSX (but fit isnt the best with ZSX due longer nozzle of the sedna), they have Sedna short actually but difficult to find


----------



## redrol

Here is my review of the KZ E10 TWS


----------



## Podster

redrol said:


> Here is my review of the KZ E10 TWS




Well done video review redrol, I too keep reading about the BT cutting out on these. Curious if anyone has tried using them with the charging case on them in another pocket. I do realize they are not supposed to be used like that but I’m curious because you said the only way they’ll sync is in the case, I would no put it passed KZ to make them dependent on each other


----------



## redrol

Hey thanks for checkin it out!  Much appreciated.

I haven't had the case around me at all actually.  Left it at home the entire time.


----------



## MyPants

Podster said:


> I'm not even sure my wife would even pick up the High Mid freq. stuff but she would sure let me know they cut in and out Speaking of the ZSX been in mine all morning again and I'm not sure which designer at KZ did them but I still say they were heavily inspired by General Grievous



They very much remind me of a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica. Appropriate because they murder basically all KZs before them.


----------



## Podster (Oct 31, 2019)

MyPants said:


> They very much remind me of a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica. Appropriate because they murder basically all KZs before them.



Murder is such a strong word It is a matter of opinion as well but Knowledge Zenith has been able to steadily improve on design and more importantly SQ, I will say for me as good as the ZS7, 10 Pro and ZSX are I still really find the ZS6 to be of my preferred signature in their current lineup. And for the Cylon similarity and like the "Motor" cycle commercial "yeah I can see that"





Very similar shapes indeed





@redrol , it was just a thought when I got to thinking about you saying they would not sync unless the iem's were in the pod. Arrogant snot here always looking for a chance to say Pod


----------



## Podster

Speaking of the Cylon's finish on their armour just look at this finish and yes I realize I'm in the wrong thread


----------



## MyPants

Podster said:


> Speaking of the Cylon's finish on their armour just look at this finish and yes I realize I'm in the wrong thread



Oh yeeaahhh, that's what I'm talkin' about. If I wasn't literally unboxing the LCD-1 right now I would be very jealous. I'll be watching to see your impressions on those.


----------



## Podster

MyPants said:


> Oh yeeaahhh, that's what I'm talkin' about. If I wasn't literally unboxing the LCD-1 right now I would be very jealous. I'll be watching to see your impressions on those.



I put some initials here MP https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mez...l-injection-sintered-steel-body.917749/page-2


----------



## emeraldstone

A youtuber in their Airpods Pro review mentioned that the KZ ZST sounds better than the Apple Airpods : 

Nice to see KZ getting recognition on their amazing price to performance ratio.


----------



## Tonymac136

citral23 said:


> I ordered the Tin T2 to compare with the V2, now that my taste has changed and I like less bass. Scared of the treble that many report as being too much, but we'll see, for 30€ no big deal.



I use foam tips and ALWAYS use an amplifier with mine. It doesn't rattle my head with bass for sure but it's adequate. The treble is there but no more so than on loads of other stuff. It's nowhere near as shrieky and metallic as some of the BA stuff I own so it doesn't sound as harsh even if the level is the same (I think it's a bit less.)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ZSX + ES100 + Tidal + CP145L = bliss

Balanced cable will be in on Sunday.


----------



## revand

I had a chance to compare Fiio FH7 premium IEM with my KZ ZSX!
I expected a huge difference between the two in SQ considering the 15 x price difference, but finally even if the FH7 was better the KZ ZSX's excellent performance compared with FH7 was a big surprise for me!
The only problem with the ZSX is to find the perfect balance between comfort and sound quality because of the long nozzle.
I found for myself as the best combination  the Comply Comfort memory foam tips, but FH7 is still far more comfortable to wear.
Here you can find my comparison review between FH7 and ZSX in Hungarian. Most of the text is understandable with Google Translate in English, and I made the final scoring table in English as well.
In the meantime I bought a **** 16 core unbalanced cable for my ZSX (the colour perfectly match with the ZSX's purple-grey colour) and it works in perfect harmony with the ZSX (better than KZ upgrade cable). The ZSX for me is a technical marvel. Great sound for relatively little money even compared with a much higher category premium IEM.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

revand said:


> I had a chance to compare Fiio FH7 premium IEM with my KZ ZSX!
> I expected a huge difference between the two in SQ considering the 15 x price difference, but finally even if the FH7 was better the KZ ZSX's excellent performance compared with FH7 was a big surprise for me!
> The only problem with the ZSX is to find the perfect balance between comfort and sound quality because of the long nozzle.
> I found for myself as the best combination  the Comply Comfort memory foam tips, but FH7 is still far more comfortable to wear.
> ...



I think that's the big part of the ZSX. They don't "beat" those high-end IEMs per se, but they come so damn close and might even have a preferable sound sig despite technical flaws that it's a no-brainer. I went for the HiFiHear 16core so I'm curious as hell where that'll end me up.


----------



## gazzington

So much chi fi now runs far more expensive stuff close that I can't bring myself to spend on the expensive iems


----------



## RecommendMePlease

Currently using KZ ZST, would the ZSX or ZS10 Pro be better ?

I also use TF10x6 as my main and KZ as a side.


----------



## DynamicEars

RecommendMePlease said:


> Currently using KZ ZST, would the ZSX or ZS10 Pro be better ?
> 
> I also use TF10x6 as my main and KZ as a side.



Yes they are more balance if you like more balance signature. And technically better iem, better soundstage, separation also


----------



## SoundChoice

RecommendMePlease said:


> Currently using KZ ZST, would the ZSX or ZS10 Pro be better ?
> 
> I also use TF10x6 as my main and KZ as a side.



Yes.


----------



## RecommendMePlease (Nov 3, 2019)

Does 2-pin fit ZS10 Pro ? or strictly only C pin ?

Wondering if the 2-pin **** 8 core will fit in ZS10 Pro


----------



## SomeEntityThing

RecommendMePlease said:


> Does 2-pin fit ZS10 Pro ? or strictly only C pin ?
> 
> Wondering if the 2-pin **** 8 core will fit in ZS10 Pro



It accepts A and C pin, though with the A pins the fit will be looser. IIRC there isn't a Y***** 8 core of the C pin type, unfortunately, only A.


----------



## Nimweth

RecommendMePlease said:


> Currently using KZ ZST, would the ZSX or ZS10 Pro be better ?
> 
> 
> I also use TF10x6 as my main and KZ as a side.


Yes. ZSX>ZS10 Pro>ZST. But TRN V90 is even better.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I can't say with absolute certainty about the HifiHear balanced cable, but it really does SEEM like it's got some extra power and bunch. Possibly that's a result of the extra power they're getting through the balanced output on the ES100, but no matter what I'm just glad for the purchase because the cable is a ton more robust and there's a dang chin slider. Think I'm pretty well situated.


----------



## MyPants

gazzington said:


> So much chi fi now runs far more expensive stuff close that I can't bring myself to spend on the expensive iems



Indeed, this has been a huge year for ChiFi. The Kanas Pro/KxxS, Tin P1, BL-03, the Shuoer Tape building hype-train momentum, the ZSX, V90, and it looks like the Tin T4 will be out before the end of the year.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

My cart for 11/11 contains Audiosense T260. It's Dual-Knowles setup for only $59. (there is no review yet)


----------



## RyuzakiL26

Nimweth said:


> Yes. ZSX>ZS10 Pro>ZST. But TRN V90 is even better.



Is V90 neutral sounding or V-shaped? Also, would pair it with 16core cable


----------



## mbwilson111

RyuzakiL26 said:


> Is V90 neutral sounding or V-shaped? Also, would pair it with 16core cable



Check out photos of my cable choice (16 core) in the TRN thread.

You will find other info in that thread as well.  Just do a search for V90 in that thread.    I don't find mine to be overly V shaped.  Mids especially vocals are really important to me and I love the V90.  Would not call it neutral either though. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/page-86#post-15285031


----------



## zachmal

Nimweth said:


> Yes. ZSX>ZS10 Pro>ZST. But TRN V90 is even better.



Would there even be a point in getting the ZSX in addition to the V90 ?

Currently toying with the thought of getting the ZSX


----------



## Mouseman

zachmal said:


> Would there even be a point in getting the ZSX in addition to the V90 ?
> 
> Currently toying with the thought of getting the ZSX


The ZSX is different than the V90. I like it better, but I know others feel the opposite. I think the ZSX in balanced mode has great SQ and detail, the only thing the V90 does better for me is comfort. It's a smoother sound signature, I don't think it has the same bass quantity. 

I would say it's definitely worth it if you've liked previous KZs, but obviously wait for 11.11.


----------



## ephrank

Rediscovering my _vintage _ZS3 with new Spiral Dots tips


----------



## DynamicEars

RyuzakiL26 said:


> Is V90 neutral sounding or V-shaped? Also, would pair it with 16core cable



V90 isnt neutral at all, they are v shaped although not so deep.



zachmal said:


> Would there even be a point in getting the ZSX in addition to the V90 ?
> 
> Currently toying with the thought of getting the ZSX



different presentation V90 sounds cleaner, fun, crisp but smooth trebles, slamming deep bass. While ZSX more wide, balanced across all region frequencies, details that coming together at one time, but can sounded a bit edgy and glaring and like too crowded on busy tracks. separation wise ZSX a little bit better. Fit is much better on V90. They are on same league, but different presentation.
What do you like about your V90 and what do you need that you dont get in your V90? 



Mouseman said:


> The ZSX is different than the V90. I like it better, but I know others feel the opposite. I think the ZSX in balanced mode has great SQ and detail, the only thing the V90 does better for me is comfort. It's a smoother sound signature, I don't think it has the same bass quantity.
> 
> I would say it's definitely worth it if you've liked previous KZs, but obviously wait for 11.11.



yes ZSX for me is the best KZ to date, with their house signature, but more balance and detail and better timbre


----------



## defbear (Nov 4, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> oops, 121 iems, 45 earbuds & 57 headphones with more incoming


57 headphones requires............Storage.
Sorry, reading old posts


----------



## Nimweth

RyuzakiL26 said:


> Is V90 neutral sounding or V-shaped? Also, would pair it with 16core cable


V90 is well balanced, I would say more W shaped. I am using an 8 core single crystal cable with good results.


----------



## Nimweth

zachmal said:


> Would there even be a point in getting the ZSX in addition to the V90 ?
> 
> Currently toying with the thought of getting the ZSX


ZSX is an excellent IEM, probably the best KZ so far. It is very well balanced and has a very good soundstage. It does, however, still have the slightly sharp treble sometimes, that's the 30095 signature. I do prefer the V90.


----------



## shockdoc

Anyone know of any reviews with a direct comparison between the ZSX and the Blon Bl-03? TIA


----------



## SoundChoice

shockdoc said:


> Anyone know of any reviews with a direct comparison between the ZSX and the Blon Bl-03? TIA



When I use the "search this thread" box at the top of this page for "zsx blon" I found this post, then started reading backwards in the quoted replies.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3214#post-15212153


----------



## Nimweth

shockdoc said:


> Anyone know of any reviews with a direct comparison between the ZSX and the Blon Bl-03? TIA


----------



## Nimweth

This review by darmanastartes has a comparison:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zsx.23948/reviews


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Nov 5, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> ZSX is an excellent IEM, probably the best KZ so far. It is very well balanced and has a very good soundstage. It does, however, still have the slightly sharp treble sometimes, that's the 30095 signature. I do prefer the V90.



I can definitely agree that the treble might irk some but maybe it's because I went back to the ZS6 for a bit but MAN it's way more tamed that it used to be LOL.

Also, the balanced cable and the ES100 with sharp rolloff makes a decent difference. I mention the cable not because "omg cable upgrade" but I think going balanced into the ES100 does have a palpable effect.


----------



## Nimweth

SomeGuyDude said:


> I can definitely agree that the treble might irk some but maybe it's because I went back to the ZS6 for a bit but MAN it's way more tamed that it used to be LOL.
> 
> Also, the balanced cable and the ES100 with sharp rolloff makes a decent difference. I mention the cable not because "omg cable upgrade" but I think going balanced into the ES100 does have a palpable effect.


Yes, I agree, the 30095 is better tuned in the ZSX and is preferable to the CCA C12.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Nimweth said:


> Yes, I agree, the 30095 is better tuned in the ZSX and is preferable to the CCA C12.



It also probably depends on music. I listen to a shitload of extreme metal and I need that extra edge to the treble. If I was going for more delicate genres I could see them not being quite as enjoyable.


----------



## nxnje

Nimweth said:


> Yes, I agree, the 30095 is better tuned in the ZSX and is preferable to the CCA C12.


To my ears, it is the opposite thing. I find C12 treble much better tuned even if ZSX's treble is more detailed.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nxnje said:


> To my ears, it is the opposite thing. I find C12 treble much better tuned even if ZSX's treble is more detailed.



In fairness, "better tuned" doesn't mean anything. Nor does "detailed," really. If you crank up the treble, any headphone will sound really "detailed," just look at Grado products. And what is 'better' to you might not be better to me.


----------



## nxnje

SomeGuyDude said:


> In fairness, "better tuned" doesn't mean anything. Nor does "detailed," really. If you crank up the treble, any headphone will sound really "detailed," just look at Grado products. And what is 'better' to you might not be better to me.


Think someone needs some reading lessons --> "to me" means TO ME.
That was a personal opinion.
The C12, *TO ME, *has a more linear and non-fatiguing tuning and that feels smoother and less peaky.
Hope this is clear now.


----------



## Podster

nxnje said:


> Think someone needs some reading lessons --> "to me" means TO ME.
> That was a personal opinion.
> The C12, *TO ME, *has a more linear and non-fatiguing tuning and that feels smoother and less peaky.
> Hope this is clear now.



Easy kids, I just chalk it up to subjectivity I can respect both views


----------



## zachmal

DynamicEars said:


> V90 isnt neutral at all, they are v shaped although not so deep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



basically I love everything on the V90 - it's super-fun and non-fatiguing, also quite detailed

if the mids are better on the ZSX that would be a pro also the bass can be much on the V90 (coming from the Tin T2 and other less bassy IEMs)

got a few coupons that can be stacked to get the ZSX (or other items) cheaper, so thinking how to best utilize them

Thanks


----------



## Nimweth

nxnje said:


> To my ears, it is the opposite thing. I find C12 treble much better tuned even if ZSX's treble is more detailed.


Different tips, different cable, different source, different ears!


----------



## nxnje

Podster said:


> Easy kids, I just chalk it up to subjectivity I can respect both views


I respect every point of view but I do not like when someone points out objective (and obvious) stuff based on personal opinions.



Nimweth said:


> Different tips, different cable, different source, different ears!


Yea, that's sure. Gonna try switching many tips on the ZSX as well. Cable is not gonna change the things I think.. I have tried with 3 cables until now and still didn't notice any difference.


----------



## DynamicEars

zachmal said:


> basically I love everything on the V90 - it's super-fun and non-fatiguing, also quite detailed
> 
> if the mids are better on the ZSX that would be a pro also the bass can be much on the V90 (coming from the Tin T2 and other less bassy IEMs)
> 
> ...



Yes V90 is non fatiguing even they have detailed trebles. Meanwhile ZSX mids are more forwarded and detailed, but can be sounded more edgy or more harsh, not that bad just the v90 presentation is smoother on mids, but not as forward as in ZSX and micro details and separation a bit better in ZSX. Can be pro or cons depends on preferences. If coming from Tin T2 to V90 there is a huge gap between bass quantity amount.
To date i cant clearly say who is the winner between ZSX and V90 for me.


----------



## paulwasabii

DynamicEars said:


> Yes V90 is non fatiguing even they have detailed trebles. Meanwhile ZSX mids are more forwarded and detailed, but can be sounded more edgy or more harsh, not that bad just the v90 presentation is smoother on mids, but not as forward as in ZSX and micro details and separation a bit better in ZSX. Can be pro or cons depends on preferences. If coming from Tin T2 to V90 there is a huge gap between bass quantity amount.
> To date i cant clearly say who is the winner between ZSX and V90 for me.



I have both and agree, there isn't a clear winner but one might be better suited to your playlist.  I prefer the boomy bass, forward mids, and soundstage/separation on the ZSX because I prefer more electronic bass beat driven music.  If my playlist was more instrument driven, I can see where the V90 might be better suited for those genres.


----------



## DynamicEars

paulwasabii said:


> I have both and agree, there isn't a clear winner but one might be better suited to your playlist.  I prefer the boomy bass, forward mids, and soundstage/separation on the ZSX because I prefer more electronic bass beat driven music.  If my playlist was more instrument driven, I can see where the V90 might be better suited for those genres.



Isnt that the other way around with V90 have more punchy bass? I think instruments, details are a little bit better with ZSX. About forwarded mids yes I agree ZSX have more forward mids presentation with more separation though.


----------



## paulwasabii

DynamicEars said:


> Isnt that the other way around with V90 have more punchy bass? I think instruments, details are a little bit better with ZSX. About forwarded mids yes I agree ZSX have more forward mids presentation with more separation though.



I would say the V90 is punchy, but the ZSX goes a bit deeper, more weight to it, boomier after ditching the stock cable.  Not necessarily a good thing, but as I said, it works with my music.


----------



## HungryPanda

I personally prefer V90 over ZSX


----------



## Light - Man (Nov 6, 2019)

Podster said:


> Very similar shapes indeed!
> 
> 
> ............
> ...


Sorry Pod but I reckon that these are way more similar and interesting!







 .........
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




......?


----------



## Podster (Nov 6, 2019)

Light - Man said:


> Sorry Pod but I reckon that these are way more similar and interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have to agree those (


----------



## citral23

nxnje said:


> I have tried with 3 cables until now and still didn't notice any difference.



That's rather logical, electrons don't give a crap


----------



## Nimweth

citral23 said:


> That's rather logical, electrons don't give a crap


That depends on whether we are observing them or not!


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> I personally prefer V90 over ZSX



Not to mention that satin midnight blue is killer


----------



## Podster

@Slater , hello Slater was just checking MMCX status?


----------



## genck

nxnje said:


> I respect every point of view but I do not like when someone points out objective (and obvious) stuff based on personal opinions.
> 
> 
> Yea, that's sure. Gonna try switching many tips on the ZSX as well. Cable is not gonna change the things I think.. I have tried with 3 cables until now and still didn't notice any difference.


Try dekoni tips (Mercury) to tame the treble


----------



## khighly

Heads up, I received a $5 coupon for aliexpress to use on 11/11 by playing whatever 'roll the dice' game they have up. It's a *use anywhere* coupon, which is really rare for aliexpress imo. Should bring the price of ZSX down for me even more


----------



## oMalakai

Ey, hello people. After using the ED16 for almost a year by now, I must say that they are quite nice, specially after comparing them to other things at the same price range. But after all this time, I kinda want something better. Something well, more exciting? These aren't bad...but they definitely don't make me feel like I wanna try them with every song I have.

Any recommendations? I've been looking around and have seen the ZSX, the TRN V90, BLON BL-3...but there is so much to choose from nowadays that, it's a bit overwhelming.

I'm mostly looking for something with better bass (I feel like it doesn't have enough most of the time), better isolation if possible, a tad more comfortable (I'm usually constantly re-adjusting them on my ears) and well, maybe with more "sparkling" highs, and soundstage. I feel like they sound too inoffensive, in a way.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Nimweth

oMalakai said:


> Ey, hello people. After using the ED16 for almost a year by now, I must say that they are quite nice, specially after comparing them to other things at the same price range. But after all this time, I kinda want something better. Something well, more exciting? These aren't bad...but they definitely don't make me feel like I wanna try them with every song I have.
> 
> Any recommendations? I've been looking around and have seen the ZSX, the TRN V90, BLON BL-3...but there is so much to choose from nowadays that, it's a bit overwhelming.
> 
> ...


V90 fits the description.


----------



## TheVortex

Nimweth said:


> V90 fits the description.


 
Same here. The V90 is my rec as well.


----------



## HungryPanda

Yep I'll add a V90 rec as well


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

courierdriver said:


> If you had asked me a year ago, I would've recd the Fiio Q1MK2. But now, I see that it's using an AK4452-3 dac, which imho, is a downgrade to the 4490 that they were previously using. They aren't even using 2 per channel, in a true balanced fashion. Best bet right now, is the Radstone Earsonics ES100, or the new E1DA dac/amp dongle. The E1DA is possibly the best sounding dac/amp dongle on the market right now, but it's power hungry and needs a USB splitter cable (which is currently shipping with it) and also a USB power bank to power it and your smartphone. It will make for a bigger stack, and you will have to take into consideration that the power bank you choose will need alot more time to recharge...even if it has a fast Quick Charge feature. Usually around 7-10 hours. E1DA is probably the best sounding choice, but it will require a big battery/power source to make it work. Other than that, I'd say maybe a Fiio Q5 or Q5S dac/amp. Around $350 US, so still not inexpensive.



To get better clarity with my KZs, and also power the hungrier IEMs (like BL-03, MH755, CNT-1), I'm seriously thinking of picking up what you suggested. Not for mobile use, but for my PC.

I could just plug in an E1DA and get enough juice for any IEM, surely even the T800. Maybe even pick it up on 11.11.

Or the ES100 is a real possibility. That opens up 2.5 balanced, which is crucial for some IEMs. (Does any KZ benefit from this, like the KZ7?)

Just for fun, I could add in a tube like the Sabaj PHA3, if that combination even works.

[Or just skip all this and get an Shanling M6, serving as a home DAC and mobile DAP].

I guess ES100 + nothing is the most sane purchase to enhance Chi-Fi IEMs?


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Podster said:


> So Lockheed has the SR-71 and I have the M-71 I believe this song title says it all for these babies



Looks like a good cable. Is that a TRN silver-plated 16-core?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

> I guess ES100 + nothing is the most sane purchase to enhance Chi-Fi IEMs?



This is what I'm thinking for last 45 days and yet, in the meanwhile I've ordered two IEMs and have two more in my cart! Lol!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Yeah, if it wasn't for the explosion in Chi-Fi, I'd have a DAC by now!


----------



## Podster (Nov 7, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Looks like a good cable. Is that a TRN silver-plated 16-core?



Indeed it is

@Dani157 , this is how it starts Dani Get out while you can


----------



## oMalakai

Nimweth said:


> V90 fits the description.





TheVortex said:


> Same here. The V90 is my rec as well.





HungryPanda said:


> Yep I'll add a V90 rec as well



That's three votes for the V90s huh? What does it do better than the ZSX, for example? A friend that has both recommended me the ZSX because he thought that the V90 had piercing treble and a terrible cable (That can be fixed, evidently). Mind you, I plan to use this with my very regular phone. I'm still reading opinions anyway, no hurry to make this decision.


----------



## MacAttack7

oMalakai said:


> That's three votes for the V90s huh? What does it do better than the ZSX, for example? A friend that has both recommended me the ZSX because he thought that the V90 had piercing treble and a terrible cable (That can be fixed, evidently). Mind you, I plan to use this with my very regular phone. I'm still reading opinions anyway, no hurry to make this decision.


I went with the V90 because I thought it would stay in my ears better when walking. I had the ZS10 Pro which I liked but it would inch out of my right ear just slightly when walking.
The V90 cable seems fine to me. LuckLZ sends a 2nd cable if you buy from them. It's softer, but I don't know if there's any difference.
Don't ask me about the sound..........just about every earphone I tried sounds fine to me. I think the ZS10 Pro was a little brighter/more metallic sounding, but I liked it. I guess I'm far from being an audiophile.
I like the V90 enough that I'm buying a 2nd pair.
I'd like to try the ZSX, but I'm pretty sure I'll have fit issues with my right ear.........left ear gives me no trouble.......right ear must be crooked or something.


----------



## Nimweth

oMalakai said:


> That's three votes for the V90s huh? What does it do better than the ZSX, for example? A friend that has both recommended me the ZSX because he thought that the V90 had piercing treble and a terrible cable (That can be fixed, evidently). Mind you, I plan to use this with my very regular phone. I'm still reading opinions anyway, no hurry to make this decision.


I find the reverse to be true. The V90 cable is preferable to the usual tangly KZ one and the 30019 BAs in the V90 do a better job than the 30095 in the ZSX, being smoother and more extended. IMO, of course!


----------



## Podster

oMalakai said:


> That's three votes for the V90s huh? What does it do better than the ZSX, for example? A friend that has both recommended me the ZSX because he thought that the V90 had piercing treble and a terrible cable (That can be fixed, evidently). Mind you, I plan to use this with my very regular phone. I'm still reading opinions anyway, no hurry to make this decision.



Now see from all the reviews and stuff I've been reading the ZSX is brighter and more active/lively as opposed to the V90 being more laid back and easy on the ears for long periods of time like a Mee P1 but then again how can you trust what anyone in this place says anyway For those that know Pod they know I'm pullin' some leg there


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Podster said:


> Indeed it is
> 
> @Dani157 , this is how it starts Dani Get out while you can



I'm trying but new hype trains and sales just don't allow me! Hope this is where I will pause.


----------



## zachmal

Podster said:


> Now see from all the reviews and stuff I've been reading the ZSX is brighter and more active/lively as opposed to the V90 being more laid back and easy on the ears for long periods of time like a Mee P1 but then again how can you trust what anyone in this place says anyway For those that know Pod they know I'm pullin' some leg there



not sure how the V90 could *not* be described as "lively" or "active", according to that the ZSX might probably be even too bright or piercing (I only have the V90) if you're sensitive towards treble

the ZSX got improved BA drivers as well (vs. previous models) and improved tuning so it's probably not as excessively piercing or treble-heavy as in the past ...


----------



## Podster

zachmal said:


> not sure how the V90 could *not* be described as "lively" or "active", according to that the ZSX might probably be even too bright or piercing (I only have the V90) if you're sensitive towards treble
> 
> the ZSX got improved BA drivers as well (vs. previous models) and improved tuning so it's probably not as excessively piercing or treble-heavy as in the past ...



Well as most around here know I'm not treble sensitive in the least, back in the day when KZ's were frying everyone's drums I was like what's the issue maing For me the music lies/lives in the Mids and higher regions, of course I know so many must have that big old bass and let the rest follow.


----------



## revand

nxnje said:


> I respect every point of view but I do not like when someone points out objective (and obvious) stuff based on personal opinions.
> 
> 
> Yea, that's sure. Gonna try switching many tips on the ZSX as well. Cable is not gonna change the things I think.. I have tried with 3 cables until now and still didn't notice any difference.



Don't buy a JCALLY copper cable to the ZSX. They simply don't match each other.
My best choice so far is a **** 16 core silver plated cable. Both the balanced version (with 2,5 mm jack) and the unbalanced version (with 3,5 mm jack) are excellent for the ZSX.


----------



## oMalakai

MacAttack7 said:


> I went with the V90 because I thought it would stay in my ears better when walking. I had the ZS10 Pro which I liked but it would inch out of my right ear just slightly when walking.
> The V90 cable seems fine to me. LuckLZ sends a 2nd cable if you buy from them. It's softer, but I don't know if there's any difference.
> Don't ask me about the sound..........just about every earphone I tried sounds fine to me. I think the ZS10 Pro was a little brighter/more metallic sounding, but I liked it. I guess I'm far from being an audiophile.
> I like the V90 enough that I'm buying a 2nd pair.
> I'd like to try the ZSX, but I'm pretty sure I'll have fit issues with my right ear.........left ear gives me no trouble.......right ear must be crooked or something.



Well, that's still something. Thanks for the input!



Nimweth said:


> I find the reverse to be true. The V90 cable is preferable to the usual tangly KZ one and the 30019 BAs in the V90 do a better job than the 30095 in the ZSX, being smoother and more extended. IMO, of course!



Ah look that, fair enough. As long as it's not absolute garbage I'm alright, worst case scenario, it can be changed anyway...right? But that sounds good to me then.



Podster said:


> Now see from all the reviews and stuff I've been reading the ZSX is brighter and more active/lively as opposed to the V90 being more laid back and easy on the ears for long periods of time like a Mee P1 but then again how can you trust what anyone in this place says anyway For those that know Pod they know I'm pullin' some leg there



Well, KZ is kinda known for it's bright signature I guess... so yeah, fair, too. Alright, so far, V90s are strongly considered to be my next buy.


----------



## courierdriver

ShakeThoseCans said:


> To get better clarity with my KZs, and also power the hungrier IEMs (like BL-03, MH755, CNT-1), I'm seriously thinking of picking up what you suggested. Not for mobile use, but for my PC.
> 
> I could just plug in an E1DA and get enough juice for any IEM, surely even the T800. Maybe even pick it up on 11.11.
> 
> ...


The E1DA Powerdac V2 is, from what I have read here on the forums/threads, a killer device if you want to listen to your music at your desk with a desktop/laptop. If I listened to music more at a desk, the Powerdac V2 would be at the top of my list. From my understanding, it has ONLY a balanced 2.5mm output and has an amazing app that features both types of EQ (parametric and the other type...which name escapes me at the moment...lol!) It is said to be extremely powerful and can drive even high impedance headphones to very loud levels. The price is less than $100. The E1DA 9038S dongle dac is a bit more expensive and is said to sound even better with even more power, but there's no app for it and it is a more portable solution. The caveat with that device, is that it sucks HUGE amounts of battery power from your phone; so you need to buy a battery bank and a special splitter cable to connect it all to your phone...which becomes rather bulky and cumbersome. The ES100 is a more portable solution, which is why I consider it above the other two E1DA solutions, because that's what I'm trying to achieve. It all depends on what your situation is. If you think you would listen to music more seated at a desk, then I'd recommend that you consider the Powerdac V2, with its awesome power and the HPTOY app. If you wanna be a bit more mobile though (which appeals more to me) I'd rec going for the ES100. The thing I like best about both these devices is that they both give you the option of running your iems or headphones in balanced form. IMO and in my experience (and there will probably be others who will disagree with me), using a 2.5 or 4.4 balanced output often sounds better than a 3.5 unbalanced output. More power, better channel separation, wider soundstage, smoother detail...overall, just a more effortless sound presentation. It used to be that gear that offered a balanced output would cost significantly more than unbalanced/single-ended. Nowadays, is becoming more common in lower priced gear. It's a good time to be into audio!


----------



## nxnje

revand said:


> Don't buy a JCALLY copper cable to the ZSX. They simply don't match each other.
> My best choice so far is a **** 16 core silver plated cable. Both the balanced version (with 2,5 mm jack) and the unbalanced version (with 3,5 mm jack) are excellent for the ZSX.


I already have the **** 16-core cable and didn't change the sound.


----------



## 1clearhead (Nov 8, 2019)

oMalakai said:


> Ey, hello people. After using the ED16 for almost a year by now, I must say that they are quite nice, specially after comparing them to other things at the same price range. But after all this time, *I kinda want something better. Something well, more exciting*? These aren't bad...but they definitely don't make me feel like I wanna try them with every song I have.
> 
> Any recommendations? I've been looking around and have seen the ZSX, the TRN V90, BLON BL-3...but there is so much to choose from nowadays that, it's a bit overwhelming.
> 
> ...


Your anwser has come: *CCA C12 
*
Though the internal DD and BA's are exactly the same as the ZSX, the housing and layout are different enough to give them a different effect and signature. One that you'll probably like, since I too own a pair of ED16. My take is; bass has a great sonic deep slam that's sure to please, much quicker than the ZSX. Vocals are more lively and clear, while treble is precise and detailed and never harsh or sibilant when compared to the ZSX. So, just slap-on the starline silicone ear tips of your size that comes in the package and enjoy the upgrade!
I proudly own both the C12 and ZSX and I can vouch that they do sound different. But, according to what you're looking for, C12 would be your better bet, IMHO. ...just my 2 cents. 

-Clear


----------



## jeromeaparis

1clearhead said:


> Your anwser has come: *CCA C12
> *
> Though the internal DD and BA's are exactly the same as the ZSX, the housing and layout are different enough to give them a different effect and signature. One that you'll probably like, since I too own a pair of ED16. My take is; bass has a great sonic deep slam that's sure to please, much quicker than the ZSX. Vocals are more lively and clear, while treble is precise and detailed and never harsh or sibilant when compared to the ZSX. So, just slap-on the starline silicone ear tips of your size that comes in the package and enjoy the upgrade!
> I proudly own both the C12 and ZSX and I can vouch that they do sound different. But, according to what you're looking for, C12 would be your better bet, IMHO. ...just my 2 cents.
> ...


I agree, I do have the ED16 that is great (but more sub than bass, sounds a bit flat except with bright source)
C12: Out the box, I found the bass level low, but after some burnin and replacing startips with small triple flange, bass have an excellent level.


----------



## Nilsson (Nov 8, 2019)

Hi!
Im looking for relatively cheap IEMs that can handle metal/death metal/black metal, I guess I want tight, snappy clear bass, I hate boomy echoing bass. I currently own the Sennheiser Momentum In-Ear Wireless and I like them a lot but the cheaper IEMs that has surfaced the last year looks interesting especially KZ/CCA. Do you have any recommendations? The Youtube reviews just make my head spin.


----------



## RikudouGoku

When will the next KZ iems come? hasnt it been 3 months since ZSX came out?


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 8, 2019)

Nilsson said:


> Hi!
> Im looking for relatively cheap IEMs that can handle metal/death metal/black metal, I guess I want tight, snappy clear bass, I hate boomy echoing bass. I currently own the Sennheiser Momentum In-Ear Wireless and I like them a lot but the cheaper IEMs that has surfaced the last year looks interesting especially KZ/CCA. Do you have any recommendations? The Youtube reviews just make my head spin.



If u like tight bass, it would be better to go for a BA bass IMHO. DDs generally have decay on the bass. What's your budget?



RikudouGoku said:


> When will the next KZ iems come? hasnt it been 3 months since ZSX came out?



Well KZ released some TWS IEMs recently didn't they? But good point, the radio silence from KZ and CCA is quite strange, especially since 11/11 and Black friday/festive period is on hand. Or maybe KZ/CCA have reached audio nirvana with their KZ ZSX and CCA C12.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> If u like tight bass, it would be better to go for a BA bass IMHO. DDs generally have decay on the bass. What's your budget?
> 
> 
> 
> Well KZ released some TWS IEMs recently didn't they? But good point, the radio silence from KZ and CCA is quite strange, especially since 11/11 and Black friday/festive period is on hand.


yeah, I skipped the ZSX/C12 since I have a lot of KZs already and better iems. But looking forward for the next one.


----------



## Nimweth

RikudouGoku said:


> When will the next KZ iems come? hasnt it been 3 months since ZSX came out?


That's a long time in the KZ universe. Having called the ZSX the 'Terminator' perhaps KZ are re-thinking their product range and abandoning hybrids?


----------



## Nimweth

Nilsson said:


> Hi!
> Im looking for relatively cheap IEMs that can handle metal/death metal/black metal, I guess I want tight, snappy clear bass, I hate boomy echoing bass. I currently own the Sennheiser Momentum In-Ear Wireless and I like them a lot but the cheaper IEMs that has surfaced the last year looks interesting especially KZ/CCA. Do you have any recommendations? The Youtube reviews just make my head spin.


A very good cheap IEM is the KBEAR KB06. It has the kind of profile which should suit your preferred genres.


----------



## Nilsson (Nov 8, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> If u like tight bass, it would be better to go for a BA bass IMHO. DDs generally have decay on the bass. What's your budget?



Whats a BA bass? 
Edit: Nevermind Google was my friend. 

Budget is like 100€.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

courierdriver said:


> The E1DA Powerdac V2 is, from what I have read here on the forums/threads, a killer device if you want to listen to your music at your desk with a desktop/laptop. If I listened to music more at a desk, the Powerdac V2 would be at the top of my list. From my understanding, it has ONLY a balanced 2.5mm output and has an amazing app that features both types of EQ (parametric and the other type...which name escapes me at the moment...lol!) It is said to be extremely powerful and can drive even high impedance headphones to very loud levels. The price is less than $100. The E1DA 9038S dongle dac is a bit more expensive and is said to sound even better with even more power, but there's no app for it and it is a more portable solution. The caveat with that device, is that it sucks HUGE amounts of battery power from your phone; so you need to buy a battery bank and a special splitter cable to connect it all to your phone...which becomes rather bulky and cumbersome.



Thanks for your incredibly-detailed response!

I am looking more at desk-bound solutions than mobile at the moment, so the E1DA 9038S appeals most to me.

Dongles are convenient for laptops and desktops, and I could use one for my desktop. My only caveat is that all my IEMs are on 3.5mm cables right now, and I like them the way they are.

But I could see myself switching to 2.5mm for my most deskbound ones. That would be the Tin Audio T2, TFZ King Pro, and maybe the CNT-1 and KZ-7, although I sometimes use those with mobile.

Some of them are 3.5mm only, though, like the VSonic ARES. So it's a hard call, switching some of those to 2.5mm, which means I can't easily interchange them with mobile devices.

That's why I keep looking at the ES100. I would only have to switch a few IEMs to 2.5mm, and use the rest as 3.5mm with that one. But are you thinking that the sound quailty is not as good as the E1DA models?


----------



## courierdriver

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Thanks for your incredibly-detailed response!
> 
> I am looking more at desk-bound solutions than mobile at the moment, so the E1DA 9038S appeals most to me.
> 
> ...


I don't own any of these dac/amps, so I can't speak to whether the E1DA Powerdac V2 or 9038S is better sounding than the ES100. ES100 uses a different dac chip, but that doesn't mean that it will sound better or worse than E1DA because it really comes down to implementation and how good the output stage is. Like you, I am also seriously looking at the ES100, but my needs are to be a bit more portable and be able to use my phone's rear camera (which I can't do when I have my Fiio Q1MK2 dac/amp stacked onto the back of my phone). So that is something that is important to me. Also important is to be able to use all my iems in balanced mode, as I prefer using balanced 2.5 output. I like that the ES100 has both balanced and 3.5 unbalanced/single-ended to give me choices. Plus, it has that great app which allows you to control so many aspects of the sound that it should be fairly easy to dial in a signature to make all your iems sound great. I do think though if you plan to use the device in a more stationary setup (like with a laptop or desktop computer) the better solution would be the E1DA Powerdac v2 because it's more designed to be used with a computer at a desk. But that's just my opinion. If you want some better advice, I suggest you contact @HungryPanda here on headfi. I believe he has both the Radsone ES100 and the E1DA Powerdac v2 so he might be able to compare both units and give you his thoughts on any differences with the two.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The ES100 with a balanced cable is straight-up godly with the ZSX. Literally the only situation where I use a different setup is when I'm at my big desk with the tube amp and my HD650.

Just sayin'.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Nimweth said:


> Trying the 8 core Senlee cable with various IEMs. ZS7 very successful, the sound opened up making the profile more balanced. Soundstage and imaging improved. ZSX not so good, seemed to lose atmosphere, it sounded better with my Hifi hear hybrid cable. C12 excellent. Big soundstage and pinpoint imaging and smoother treble. I'll be testing the BLON BL-03 next. It's amazing how synergy plays such an important part in percieved sound quality. The ZSX seems quite fussy, as it didn't like the TRN 16 core cable either, but that sounds great on the BLON.



Can you provide a link for the 8 core Senless cable, and the TRN 16 core cable?


----------



## Nimweth

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Can you provide a link for the 8 core Senlee cable, and the TRN 16 core cable?


Senlee Cable:
https://www.amazon.com/Senlee-Cryst...s_a_1_4?keywords=Senlee&qid=1573234373&sr=8-4
TRN Cable:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07SDFJLL9?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

SomeGuyDude said:


> The ES100 with a balanced cable is straight-up godly with the ZSX. Literally the only situation where I use a different setup is when I'm at my big desk with the tube amp and my HD650.
> 
> Just sayin'.




What kind of music are you playing with the ZSX? And also, if you don't mind, could you tell me what balanced cable you are using? 11.11 is coming up, after all...


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ShakeThoseCans said:


> What kind of music are you playing with the ZSX? And also, if you don't mind, could you tell me what balanced cable you are using? 11.11 is coming up, after all...



Extreme metal, post-rock, and a smattering of hip-hop. Basically music with a good bit of "meat" to the rhythm section. Not a basshead, but I need a low-end that feels potent.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TYHB67L/ that's the cable I'm using. The fact that it can LDAC from my phone means, for the first time, a mobile solution is literally on par with plugging stuff into a laptop, and frankly I think the ES100 sounds better than the Dragonfly Red.


----------



## Podster

baskingshark said:


> If u like tight bass, it would be better to go for a BA bass IMHO. DDs generally have decay on the bass. What's your budget?
> 
> 
> 
> Well KZ released some TWS IEMs recently didn't they? But good point, the radio silence from KZ and CCA is quite strange, especially since 11/11 and Black friday/festive period is on hand. Or maybe KZ/CCA have reached audio nirvana with their KZ ZSX and CCA C12.





Nimweth said:


> That's a long time in the KZ universe. Having called the ZSX the 'Terminator' perhaps KZ are re-thinking their product range and abandoning hybrids?



Based on the BA10 you could be on to something there I actually prefer my KZ BA10 to my HQ12’s out of the majority of my players as well


----------



## Nilsson

SomeGuyDude said:


> Extreme metal, post-rock, and a smattering of hip-hop. Basically music with a good bit of "meat" to the rhythm section. Not a basshead, but I need a low-end that feels potent.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TYHB67L/ that's the cable I'm using. The fact that it can LDAC from my phone means, for the first time, a mobile solution is literally on par with plugging stuff into a laptop, and frankly I think the ES100 sounds better than the Dragonfly Red.



Can it handle blastbeats and Tech DM?
I think about going for the "KZ sister", CCA C12.


----------



## Crandall

Nilsson said:


> Can it handle blastbeats and Tech DM?
> I think about going for the "KZ sister", CCA C12.


I'll say this. Archspire has never sounded better to me than it has through the ZSX and ES100.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Nilsson said:


> Can it handle blastbeats and Tech DM?
> I think about going for the "KZ sister", CCA C12.



With aplomb.



Crandall said:


> I'll say this. Archspire has never sounded better to me than it has through the ZSX and ES100.



Yep. I don't do a lot of tech death but the ZSX can handle pretty much whatever you throw at it. The tone is incredible for that style. All that ultra high-speed crap like Hour of Penance, Nile, Archspire, etc? Powerful and not at all muddy (except with the ones that are recorded badly).


----------



## gazzington

SomeGuyDude said:


> With aplomb.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. I don't do a lot of tech death but the ZSX can handle pretty much whatever you throw at it. The tone is incredible for that style. All that ultra high-speed crap like Hour of Penance, Nile, Archspire, etc? Powerful and not at all muddy (except with the ones that are recorded badly).


I like Nile a lot plus lots of black metal. Would you say zsx would be good for these?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

gazzington said:


> I like Nile a lot plus lots of black metal. Would you say zsx would be good for these?



Abso-goddamn-lutely. I jam a ton of black metal through these and whether it's the really beefy type like Belphegor or paper-thin like Darkspace, the ZSX is perfect. 

I also listen to a load of slam/brutal death, stuff like Epicardiectomy or Cephalotripsy (don't google at work, album covers highly NSFW), and my god they're heavy like a freight train with these. Same with if you're big into doom/sludge.


----------



## citral23

Crandall said:


> I'll say this. Archspire has never sounded better to me than it has through the ZSX and ES100.



Try on the ZS7 then


----------



## Crandall

citral23 said:


> Try on the ZS7 then


Oh I have. I prefer the ZSX for most all tech death. The ZS7 is what I use for EDM and Doom metal.


----------



## gazzington

SomeGuyDude said:


> Abso-goddamn-lutely. I jam a ton of black metal through these and whether it's the really beefy type like Belphegor or paper-thin like Darkspace, the ZSX is perfect.
> 
> I also listen to a load of slam/brutal death, stuff like Epicardiectomy or Cephalotripsy (don't google at work, album covers highly NSFW), and my god they're heavy like a freight train with these. Same with if you're big into doom/sludge.


Looks these are going on my 11/11 cart. What dap do you use with them?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

gazzington said:


> Looks these are going on my 11/11 cart. What dap do you use with them?



I use an ES100 with the balanced HiFiHear cable and a Pixel 4XL as my source.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> That's a long time in the KZ universe. Having called the ZSX the 'Terminator' perhaps KZ are re-thinking their product range and abandoning hybrids?


I still very much hope that they can do BA-piezo hybrids, e.g. long promised C18 based on C12/C16 best, plus the piezo treble extension and resolution.

Well, CCA and KZ - no IEMs for me on 11.11, which I learned evolved semi-mysteriously from celebrations of singles...


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> I still very much hope that they can do BA-piezo hybrids, e.g. long promised C18 based on C12/C16 best, plus the piezo treble extension and resolution.
> 
> Well, CCA and KZ - no IEMs for me on 11.11, which I learned evolved semi-mysteriously from celebrations of singles...


Yes, the mythical C18 is still to appear. BA + piezo would be very interesting indeed, perhaps with vented bass like TRN's BA5.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 8, 2019)

At the moment the only thing I am planning to buy on11:11 is this:

A balanced cable for an oldie but goodie, my gray ZS5 (version 1)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32915038508.html


----------



## zachmal

mbwilson111 said:


> At the moment the only thing I am planning to buy on11:11 is this:
> 
> A balanced cable for an oldie but goodie, my gray  ZS5 (version 1)
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32915038508.html



seems to be another "re-brand" of another brand name (banned or not)

in any case the C8 reviews on amazon talk about poor connector quality (loose contacts) and sound going off and on on one side (a few reviews) and microphonics

microphonics and loose connection would be absolute showstoppers for me,

got loose connection after a while as well with a TRN 16-core cable on the **** - both on the headphone jack and mmcx connector ports, it's not the T2 but an older cable

...

not planning to get any of those older ones from TRN anymore or unless they have been confirmed to work well


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I really hope KZ doesn't abandon ba/dd hybrids. I like the texture a good DD gives in the bass frequencies.


----------



## Nilsson

Well, I just bought me a ES100 and a pair of CCA C12.


----------



## baskingshark

Podster said:


> Based on the BA10 you could be on to something there I actually prefer my KZ BA10 to my HQ12’s out of the majority of my players as well



I heard reviews the BA10 sounds great but the fit may be finicky due to the shell shape. U have any issues with discomfort/fit with it?



PhonoPhi said:


> I still very much hope that they can do BA-piezo hybrids, e.g. long promised C18 based on C12/C16 best, plus the piezo treble extension and resolution.
> 
> Well, CCA and KZ - no IEMs for me on 11.11, which I learned evolved semi-mysteriously from celebrations of singles...



If I had a Christmas wish, it would be for KZ/CCA to come out with a well tuned single DD. 
Single DDs seem all the rage now in CHIFI with great recent releases like the BLON, TFZs and upcoming ones like the Toneking 1Q, FAAEAL hibiscus, Tin HIFI T4, Fearless Audio Stellar etc.
But it seems KZ/CCA seem to be focusing on multi BAs/hybrids the past few months.


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> I heard reviews the BA10 sounds great but the fit may be finicky due to the shell shape. U have any issues with discomfort/fit with it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do not subscribe to this "single -DD rage". A single membrane can't physically do everything. Otherwise there could be a single "super instrument" instead of an symphony orchestra.
So I will patiently wait for BA-piezo hybrids while happily listening to my C16, C12 and AS10.


----------



## baskingshark

PhonoPhi said:


> I do not subscribe to this "single -DD rage". A single membrane can't physically do everything. Otherwise there could be a single "super instrument" instead of an symphony orchestra.
> So I will patiently wait for BA-piezo hybrids while happily listening to my C16, C12 and AS10.



Well music is subjective and we all have different preferences but IMHO there are benefits for a single DD in the area of coherency of tonality and timbre compared to multi BA/hybrids. And no crossover issues. But definitely agree that the multi BA/hybrids would be better in details, instrument separation, clarity, in general, compared to the single DD types. So it really depends what aspects of the sound is more important to u in the music and also the music genres u listen to.

I have about 20 IEMs in my house and my most regularly used ones in rotation for general music listening are actually the single DD ones as they sound more "musical" to my ears (though I mainly listen to jazz, classical, instrumental, acoustics, so I value timbre and tonality more than details). But for critical listening or stage monitoring, I would definitely go for a multi BA/hybrid for sure.

Different brushes, different strokes, at least we all have endless cheap and good options nowadays in the CHIFI market to suit our preferences!


----------



## kukkurovaca

PhonoPhi said:


> I do not subscribe to this "single -DD rage". A single membrane can't physically do everything. Otherwise there could be a single "super instrument" instead of an symphony orchestra.



By the same logic, nobody should be satisfied with virtually any of the most beloved full-size headphones ; ) 

(Nothing against piezo hybrids, listening to Spring 1 right now after a few hours of single-DD GT3 Superbass)


----------



## Podster

baskingshark said:


> I heard reviews the BA10 sounds great but the fit may be finicky due to the shell shape. U have any issues with discomfort/fit with it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don’t but I got some big old Shrek ears!


----------



## shockdoc

Nilsson said:


> Well, I just bought me a ES100 and a pair of CCA C12.


 Please return and report!


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Nov 8, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> I do not subscribe to this "single -DD rage". A single membrane can't physically do everything. Otherwise there could be a single "super instrument" instead of an symphony orchestra.



I'm actually impressed with how dumb this sentence is.

For one, there couldn't be a "super instrument" reproducing a full orchestra because how the hell would it be operated?

For two, the world's best full-size headphones are single membrane. Do you seriously think your little chi-fi multi-driver IEMs are competing with the likes of the Audeze, Stax, Focal, or Sennheiser's massive flagships? Or hell, even something like Campfire's TOTL single-driver IEMs?

For three, that which _creates_ sound has absolutely zero bearing on that which _reproduces_ sound.

By your logic, headphones playing a symphony orchestra would need about 60 or 70 drivers, one per instrument. Or a recording of a piano would need 88 different speakers, one per string.


----------



## yorosello (Nov 8, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> I do not subscribe to this "single -DD rage". A single membrane can't physically do everything. Otherwise there could be a single "super instrument" instead of an symphony orchestra.
> So I will patiently wait for BA-piezo hybrids while happily listening to my C16, C12 and AS10.



Well, even tho i'm still rather new here, I can say that my collection that's mostly single DD IEM sounds far more natural & whole than my only hybrid IEM (KZ ZSN Pro) IMHO. It still cover everything pretty well and it do sounds more full bodied and fun than the thin sounding of the ZSN pro that I owned.


----------



## citral23 (Nov 9, 2019)

yorosello said:


> Well, even tho i'm still rather new here, I can say that my collection that's mostly single DD IEM sounds far more natural & whole than my only hybrid IEM (KZ ZSN Pro) IMHO. It still cover everything pretty well and it do sounds more full bodied and fun than the thin sounding of the ZSN pro that I owned.



People who look down on single DDs often listen to EDM, metal, or other genres where timbre doesn't really matter, and understandably for these genres the superior instruments separation and resolving power of hybrids can appear "superior".

It completely falls apart when listening to Coltrane or Chopin tho.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm actually impressed with how dumb this sentence is.
> 
> For one, there couldn't be a "super instrument" reproducing a full orchestra because how the hell would it be operated?
> 
> ...



It is humbling to receive such a strong emotional response. It also reminded me of Einstein 's saying. The man was sure only about two infinite things, actually one 

Your strong arguments seem to be all precedent-based, your citation list of "flagships" is seemingly intimidatingly impressive mind- and wallet-wise.

Though empowered with such strong logic, back upon an introduction of steam engines, seemingly an impeccable precedent-based argument would be to dismiss those engines since the horses are surely faster 
This logic would also help to be a good target audience that can be easily convinced to buy another horse for your stable since it is the fastest, the "flagship" of the hour. 

Now from the horses and "flagships" to the sound - those "60-70" symphonic instruments playing at once their individual parts would make for a true cacophony that your ears would not be able to resolve no matter what "flagship" is used. No need to go further with this logic to a piano with its couple of hundred strings (there are even more strings than the (88) keys if you look closely into it)

Actually, the number of voices that the human brain can simultaneously meaningfully process is 4-6 at best. In fact, one of the unsurpassed masterpieces of classical music is Bach's six-voice fugue from The Musical Offering. Surely, more voices can be written for some "flagship scores" for the fame of the day, yet they may not sound as beautifully intricate and magestic....

Also there are just 10 octaves in the audible range, out of which less than 8 are most important for the music, so 8-12 independent drivers actually will do the job nicely based on both physics and psychoacoustics!

Talking more about precedents, I am blessed to be able to listen to string instruments live closely daily. I can assure you that the sound of a violin up close is even different from its sound at a distance and is quite far what a DD can reproduce physically. BAs (as  multiple agile drivers) give a better approximation to my ears, more so less dampened harsher Bellsings than Knowles (sorry to bring another Pandora's box). Strings do sound quite a bit harsh up close when bowed.

Finally...
" For three, that which _creates_ sound has absolutely zero bearing on that which _reproduces_ sound."
This sentence I can only say I have some difficulty to grasp 
What about a precedent of reproducing the violin sound with drums or drums with a violin, even the "true flagship" Stradivari one


----------



## citral23

And how are concerts recorded ? with 12 balanced armatures per stereo channel? The logic is flawed. A single membrane can capture and reproduce all the frequencies adequately.


----------



## olinko

Does anyone know the specific dimensions of the out-of-the-box stock tips on the ZSX? I'm buying spinfits CP100 for the Blon 03 and I don't know if I need S, M or L size and the ZSX tips fit me perfectly


----------



## PhonoPhi

citral23 said:


> And how are concerts recorded ? with 12 balanced armatures per stereo channel? The logic is flawed. A single membrane can capture and reproduce all the frequencies adequately.



Actually, if you look more closely into the difference between dynamic and more advanced condenser and ribbon microphones, the membrane there moves very little and experience less distortion by far compared to DDs that should move quite a bit of air to reproduce sound.
This comparison actually presents a strong case for BAs.
Not that BAs are perfect by any means, they work well rather in a limited range, so many of them is needed. Then coherence is an issue, especially with budget IEMs.

Yet, they make more compelling solution for sound reproduction currently, at least to me.


----------



## mbwilson111

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm actually impressed with how dumb this sentence is.
> 
> For one, there couldn't be a "super instrument" reproducing a full orchestra because how the hell would it be operated?
> 
> ...



It would be nice if you would edit out that first sentence.  No need to be insulting.  We can all have our own views and preferences.



PhonoPhi said:


> Actually, if you look more closely into the difference between dynamic and more advanced condenser and ribbon microphones, the membrane there moves very little and experience less distortion by far compared to DDs that should move quite a bit of air to reproduce sound.
> This comparison actually presents a strong case for BAs.
> Not that BAs are perfect by any means, they work well rather in a limited range, so many of them is needed. Then coherence is an issue, especially with budget IEMs.
> 
> Yet, they make more compelling solution for sound reproduction currently, at least to me.



think it is possible to appreciate both.  I certainly do.

Speaking of single dynamics,  I will turn back time a few years here and share this new (to me) KZ ED7 that arrived today.  I am only able to find them on Amazon.UK but there could be others.  They ship from China.

While listening I was reading @DocHoliday  's  review and I can totally relate to all that he has said.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-ed7-in-ear-monitor.23035/

The body is made of bamboo.  I have put Symbio tips on them (not Symbio Peels but I might try those if I still have a pair somewhere).

I would love to find the mini version.


----------



## PhonoPhi

mbwilson111 said:


> It would be nice if you would edit out that first sentence.  No need to be insulting.  We can all have our own views and preferences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely.
I enjoy my Blon.
I was just trying to voice some reasoning against the recent hype of single DDs. In terms of an ulimate solution, multi-BAs make a bit more sense, that's all


----------



## nraymond

PhonoPhi said:


> I was just trying to voice some reasoning against the recent hype of single DDs. In terms of an ulimate solution, multi-BAs make a bit more sense, that's all



I find counter-hype just as annoying as hype. It adds a similar kind of noise. When people focus on having a good dialog, the best discussions happen in my experience. Hype will come and hype will go, like fashions in the clothing industry.


----------



## chinmie

DD...BA...Planar....Est....etc...etc..
Different tools for different situations. No need to argue about which is best. 
Even several single DD IEMs/earbuds/headphones can sound different from one another,
The same goes to the several BA IEMs that have the same exact number of driver inside.

Try to listen to your earphones and categorize them by their sound and optimal situational use, and don't mind about the tech and other things written on their spec sheets. 
Their specs would only makes things easier for deciding what amps and power you would going to pair them with, how added impedance would affect the changes in sound, etc..

Other than that, no benefit would come from comparing driver techs


----------



## shockdoc

Weird question. Can anyone tell me how (or where to find a tutorial, if you will) to shop 11.11? TIA


----------



## SoundChoice

shockdoc said:


> Weird question. Can anyone tell me how (or where to find a tutorial, if you will) to shop 11.11? TIA



1. Go to AliExpress.com
2. Put item in shopping cart
3. Pay for item on 11/11
4. Wait for item 
5. Blame 11/11 frequently for being too popular because you wait so long
6. Item arrives
7. Praise 11/11 for being so wonderful


----------



## MacAttack7

So has anyone seen a really good 11/11 special on anything audio-related? 
Everything I looked at was close to a meaningless discount, so I ordered the earphones I wanted last week for $36 vs $33 on 11/11.
Maybe if I was into more expensive gear I'd see some good sales. I don't really care about $3. I bought a can of coke today which was $1 less than the bottle I could have bought, and I took the slightly longer way home to avoid paying $2 for the toll bridge, so there's $3.


----------



## baskingshark

MacAttack7 said:


> So has anyone seen a really good 11/11 special on anything audio-related?
> Everything I looked at was close to a meaningless discount, so I ordered the earphones I wanted last week for $36 vs $33 on 11/11.
> Maybe if I was into more expensive gear I'd see some good sales. I don't really care about $3. I bought a can of coke today which was $1 less than the bottle I could have bought, and I took the slightly longer way home to avoid paying $2 for the toll bridge, so there's $3.



Well since we are in the KZ thread, the KZ resin ABS hard cases are going at 1 buck for 11/11. Good quality, I bought a few 3 years back and they're still working today. There are many stores selling it, just get the cheapest.

A certain store on AE is selling the new TFZ King Edition @ $129, but will give a free My Love Edition with purchase of the King Edition on 11/11. Quite a good deal IMHO, as the My Love is about $50 USD just by itself. The TFZ Edition is supposedly based on the same driver as the TFZ No. 3/No. 3 TI, but it has tuning switches to change the sound signature. I'm very very interested in getting it. But I just bought the BLON Cardinal (higher end bigger brother BLON of the hypetrain BLON BL-03). So I need to find a way to convince my wife about this King Edition. Somebody give me some good ideas LOL.

Otherwise the NICEHCK copper 8 core cables are going at $6ish USD at some stores, super good price IMHO.

I think the higher discounts would be in audio gear > $150 USD as the select coupons on 11/11 give more discounts for minimum spend of $150. This year's discounts for the budget CHIFI don't seem as good as the previous years though.


----------



## Slater (Nov 10, 2019)

MacAttack7 said:


> So has anyone seen a really good 11/11 special on anything audio-related?
> Everything I looked at was close to a meaningless discount, so I ordered the earphones I wanted last week for $36 vs $33 on 11/11.
> Maybe if I was into more expensive gear I'd see some good sales. I don't really care about $3. I bought a can of coke today which was $1 less than the bottle I could have bought, and I took the slightly longer way home to avoid paying $2 for the toll bridge, so there's $3.



The secret to the Aliexpress sales are the coupons, plus using the mobile app.

For example, I have a $5 off $35 Aliexpress (not store) coupon that can be used on anything:



So now your $36 earphones go down to $28.

On top of that, most stores have store coupons. I very often see small store coupons pop up mid sale, like $1 off $10 or $2 off $15 for example. The store coupons stack with Aliexpress coupons.

So if the store has a store coupon (say, a $2 off $15 coupon), then the price drops even further down to $26 (vs the $36 you paid).

In addition, prices of every product are almost always cheaper on the mobile app vs the website. It doesn’t matter if it’s during a sale or not. Sometimes it’s only a few pennies cheaper, but other times it’s 5% cheaper. So I never use the website anymore, and exclusively use the mobile app to maximize my savings.

Now, I’m sure one could make the same argument of “_I’ll just take the long way home to avoid the toll bridge 5 days in a row to save the same $10”_, but one could make that argument about everything in life. I could buy a brand new car for free if I “took the long way home to avoid the toll bridge” enough times lol

But the point is that there are extra savings to be had by doing coupon fu. And guess what? That $10 saved on the earphones could have paid for a balanced cable for the earphones (in other words, a ‘free’ balanced cable).


----------



## lgcubana

baskingshark said:


> ... A certain store on AE is selling the new TFZ King Edition @ $129, but will give a free My Love Edition with purchase of the King Edition on 11/11. Quite a good deal IMHO, as the My Love is about $50 USD just by itself...
> 
> ...So I need to find a way to convince my wife about this King Edition. Somebody give me some good ideas LOL...


Are we not allowed to reference AE stores by name ?

Every Queen should have a King, unless said Queen prefers the presence of another Queen


----------



## baskingshark

lgcubana said:


> Are we not allowed to reference AE stores by name ?
> 
> Every Queen should have a King, unless said Queen prefers the presence of another Queen



That's a good one haha.
I dunno what are the forum rules about store names (that are not outrightly banned of course) and links actually. Any idea?


----------



## mbwilson111

baskingshark said:


> Somebody give me some good ideas LOL.



You will give her the My Love Edition... in the color of her choice


----------



## mbwilson111

baskingshark said:


> dunno what are the forum rules about store names (that are not outrightly banned of course) and links actually. Any idea?




I think it is fine because it is helpful but please remember to always remove the spam part of the link.... everything after the html.  is unnecessary and is discouraged.  usually the part that needs to be removed will start with ?spm

for example,  this link is to a cable I might buy on 11:11...   I will remove the first part of the link so it is not clickable... notice what I am talking about after the html.   Some liinks are actually much much longer ... I hate to think what they are doing to the PC

so this shows where you have to remove stuff

om/item/32888676019.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.2fb92e0ekJ8Mzl

... and this is how it should correctly be shared

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32888676019.html


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> The secret to the Aliexpress sales are the coupons, plus using the mobile app.
> 
> For example, I have a $5 off $35 Aliexpress (not store) coupon that can be used on anything:



What is the best way to get coupons? I’ve got coins from going there daily, but only ‘games’ I see are the coupon-teasing coin flip and watering a plant


----------



## BadReligionPunk

SoundChoice said:


> What is the best way to get coupons? I’ve got coins from going there daily, but only ‘games’ I see are the coupon-teasing coin flip and watering a plant


Before the sales you can usually cash in coins for coupons. This year all the coupons sold out 4-5 days ago. I snagged a $10 off $69 one before they sold out. They also usually offer $2 of $10 coupons too.
Right now on mobile there is a silly little board game you can play that gives away some decent coupons. I snagged a $5 off $35 coupon there and the game only takes a few minutes to play through the entire board.


----------



## Slater (Nov 10, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Before the sales you can usually cash in coins for coupons. This year all the coupons sold out 4-5 days ago. I snagged a $10 off $69 one before they sold out. They also usually offer $2 of $10 coupons too.
> Right now on mobile there is a silly little board game you can play that gives away some decent coupons. I snagged a $5 off $35 coupon there and the game only takes a few minutes to play through the entire board.



Agreed. You gotta get the coupons early before they are all gone.

I collect the coins every single day of the year. It literally takes under 1 minute. Because I do it every day, I usually have 2,000-3,000 at any given time. Then, at sale times I can buy a number of the good coupons. I bought some $2 off $10 and $10 off $69. Then in the games I won a few $5 off $35 and a $15 off $150.

I never buy any of the $2 select coupons, because you can get boatloads of them for free.

When it comes time to actually check out, I calculate which items in my cart will maximize my available coupons. For example, if I plan to buy 6 items, I’ll buy only the minimum number of items required to use each coupon (say 1 item for $12 so I can use my $2 off $10 coupon). I may have to make 3-4 separate purchases, but in this way I can use multiple coupons each sale.

Finally, I check different sellers who offer the same item, because some sellers honor Select coupons and/or have Seller coupons. For example, if I am going to buy (3) TRN cables and a KZ ZSX, only one seller may *also* offer the exact same items but have a seller coupon I can use *and* offer the use of Select coupons on the total purchase. So I choose to use that seller, and stack all the savings together (seller coupons, select coupons, and Aliexpress coupons).

I hope that makes sense. I was totally confused the 1st time I used Aliexpress, but after a few sales I learned how to jump through all the various coupon-fu hoops and save some decent money.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> Well... the problem is still Your hearing or bad fit with stock tips. Probably latter one. ES4 definitely has more than enough sub-bass. It doesn`t extend very far but sub-bass is certainly there.
> Listen to _NIN - Hesistation marks_ , sub-bass is there.
> 
> I also listened to my ZS5v1 today after long time listening with modded IT01 and... they still are the best KZ I have heard to date and sound actually eery similar to modded IT01 in general sound signature - but SQ due to graphene DD is another level with IT01 - much more detailed and more coherent. But v1 excels in soundstage size being more "holographic" and tad more stretched into width.
> But I have to note again that I`m powering my v1 with 80mA/3V per channel - it need loads of juice to sound fantastic, I mean FANTASTIC! ;P


Continuing where you left.

ES4 has better bass...I have the cyan version. It was tuned better for the time and was way more preferred than old ZS10.

And it was ES4 gen, when the AS10 was released. Those were the best KZ attempts (ED16 was also.... Or the Orignal ZS7, for the people who know the conspiracy back then).

I was going to pull trigger to ZSN or ZSN pro. I am using Harman Target curve from github

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

For ES4 people
Here are the EQ file.
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2017-1/KZ ES4

Text can be used in peace api
Wave can be used in IRS eq
And change the wav to IRS(extension) and use in viper

Limiting frequencies while shaping it like Harman makes these flagship killer. And I mean 64audio level. Try Harman Tuning once



Now back to topic
I was going to buy orignal ZSN when I got to know they kinda measure same for most of the part.

Do they really measure same...or I have to build my own curve from scratch.(and if I am building from scratch, should I go for KZ ZSN pro


----------



## BadReligionPunk (Nov 10, 2019)

dhruvmeena96 said:


> Continuing where you left.
> 
> ES4 has better bass...I have the cyan version. It was tuned better for the time and was way more preferred than old ZS10.
> 
> ...



Holy Crap! Did you just wake up out of a coma or something?

Yea they both measured same on thephonograph setup, but they sound nothing a like to me. The bass of the ES4 is slower and more forward. ZSN is upper mids forward with quite a lot of energy. ES4 is good for Reggae and Rap, while I like ZSN for Punk rock and Metal. Others have described similarities between the 2 but I cant find any. ES4 is L shaped to me while ZSN is W shaped.


----------



## baskingshark

Slater said:


> Agreed. You gotta get the coupons early before they are all gone.
> 
> I collect the coins every single day of the year. It literally takes under 1 minute. Because I do it every day, I usually have 2,000-3,000 at any given time. Then, at sale times I can buy a number of the good coupons. I bought some $2 off $10 and $10 off $69. Then in the games I won a few $5 off $35 and a $15 off $150.
> 
> ...



Great tips.

I would like to add that stuff is also slightly cheaper on the mobile app than the desktop version of AE.
For cheaper stuff it is a few cents less on the app, but it can be a few dollars cheaper for more expensive stuff.


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Nov 10, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Holy Crap! Did you just wake up out of a coma or something?
> 
> Yea they both measured same on thephonograph setup, but they sound nothing a like to me. The bass of the ES4 is slower and more forward. ZSN is upper mids forward with quite a lot of energy. ES4 is good for Reggae and Rap, while I like ZSN for Punk rock and Metal. Others have described similarities between the 2 but I cant find any. ES4 is L shaped to me while ZSN is W shaped.


I didnt wake from coma

I was building custom and universal iem

Search google dhruvmeena96 MASM3

Just want to buy some KZ again
(Not now, I would miss the 11.11 sale....due to some issues)

But I am interested in salvaging ZSN and ZSN pro dynamic driver

I will buy 2 set of each ZSN and ZSN pro. One for breaking apart and using in my custom iem build and one for listening


By the way, did you try ZSN pro


----------



## nxnje

My review of the KZ ZSX is up if you wanna take a read.

https://audio-monkeys.com/in-ear/kz-zsx-en/

CCA C12 and TRN V90 incoming


----------



## stryed

nxnje said:


> My review of the KZ ZSX is up if you wanna take a read.
> 
> https://audio-monkeys.com/in-ear/kz-zsx-en/
> 
> CCA C12 and TRN V90 incoming



TOOO LATE! IT's 11/11 EVERYBODY!!! Have to pick one to go with the blon!


----------



## CoiL (Nov 11, 2019)

BadReligionPunk said:


> Holy Crap! Did you just wake up out of a coma or something?
> 
> Yea they both measured same on thephonograph setup, but they sound nothing a like to me. The bass of the ES4 is slower and more forward. ZSN is upper mids forward with quite a lot of energy. ES4 is good for Reggae and Rap, while I like ZSN for Punk rock and Metal. Others have described similarities between the 2 but I cant find any. ES4 is L shaped to me while ZSN is W shaped.


Totally agree! ES4 sounds good but doesn`t sound nothing like ZSN (I have both, well had - using ES4 shells now for VE BIE drivers). ES4 I could listen loooong time without fatique but ZSN after 10min just gets overwhelming @ highs and timbre was more natural with ES4.
Phonograph graphs are not accurate in my eyes. They show general sound signature but for comparing... so so.


dhruvmeena96 said:


> I didnt wake from coma
> 
> I was building custom and universal iem
> 
> ...


Best KZ DD (driver only) = ZS4 (fast, tight, punchy).



stryed said:


> TOOO LATE! IT's 11/11 EVERYBODY!!! Have to pick one to go with the blon!


Yeah, BL-03 all over KZ for me too and getting 2nd pair for modding


----------



## nxnje

stryed said:


> TOOO LATE! IT's 11/11 EVERYBODY!!! Have to pick one to go with the blon!



Then, the CCA C12 are lovely to my ears. 
V90 are very engaging, the funniest IEMs in my last reviewed items. 
ZSX are technically good, but they're not as engaging as the V90 or CCA C12. 
I have a pair of Blon and I love them, so all I can say is that everyone should have a pair of Blon BL-03. JUST BUY THEM TODAY


----------



## dhruvmeena96

CoiL said:


> Totally agree! ES4 sounds good but doesn`t sound nothing like ZSN (I have both, well had - using ES4 shells now for VE BIE drivers). ES4 I could listen loooong time without fatique but ZSN after 10min just gets overwhelming @ highs and timbre was more natural with ES4.
> Phonograph graphs are not accurate in my eyes. They show general sound signature but for comparing... so so.
> 
> Best KZ DD (driver only) = ZS4 (fast, tight, punchy).
> ...


And I thought you stopped modding

I might need your help in future for a dynamic driver tuning
Its a DLC Tesla driver and needs a lot of work....and your advice would be golden to get the woody note out of it


----------



## Jhood

Hello everyone,

A bit off topic about the KZ IEMS, but do you people have some advices about a good cable that could go with CCA C16 and CCA C12 ? And also ear tips

I thought of going with a NiceHK C16-3 and some JVC Spiral Dots for CCA C16 but i have no clue what to pick with CCA C12

This will go with a Sonata HD 2 DAC

Thanks y'all


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 11, 2019)

Jhood said:


> I thought of going with a NiceHK C16-3 and some JVC Spiral Dots for CCA C16 but i have no clue what to pick with CCA C12



Which color C12 do you have?


----------



## audionab

CoiL said:


> Best KZ DD (driver only) = ZS4 (fast, tight, punchy).


Very true


----------



## audionab

this is my current KZ ZS4 eq profile, results in much cleaner sound but can't fully salvage the mids


----------



## 432hz

Hello there,
just got a pair of ZSN Pro Black and I was wondering if they would sound different from the Purple ones.
Someone said there were a difference with the previous model (ZSN) Purple and the rest because of the cable, so I'm asking it now.
Thank you!


----------



## khighly

432hz said:


> Hello there,
> just got a pair of ZSN Pro Black and I was wondering if they would sound different from the Purple ones.
> Someone said there were a difference with the previous model (ZSN) Purple and the rest because of the cable, so I'm asking it now.
> Thank you!


Despite what anyone too invested in the hobby here says, you will not hear a difference. Cables and color make zero difference in this application except for durability and aesthetic.


----------



## khighly

Any good deals today on KZ's?

Finally picked up ZSX for $39 inc tax/shipping with the $5 ali and a KZ store coupon.


----------



## stryed (Nov 11, 2019)

khighly said:


> Any good deals today on KZ's?
> 
> Finally picked up ZSX for $39 inc tax/shipping with the $5 ali and a KZ store coupon.


As someone who kept check a bit (there are also sites that do so), the deals aren't that big unless you are a coupon master.
Got myself a V30+ LG refurbished from ali, a week beforehand as I was impatient and didn't care for a 5% discount...IEMs I bought were in the 5-10% discount and 10 might even be pushing it...Got the C12 and a cable instead of the ZSX...TOUGH CHOICE!


----------



## Slater

CoiL said:


> Best KZ DD (driver only) = ZS4 (fast, tight, punchy).



I love the ZS4 driver also. One of KZs best dynamics.


----------



## 432hz

khighly said:


> Despite what anyone too invested in the hobby here says, you will not hear a difference. Cables and color make zero difference in this application except for durability and aesthetic.


Thank you so much!

Also, I got a pair of KZ ZS10Pro and I was wondering, is it worth mixing them like: Left IEM ZSN Pro - Right ZS10 Pro?
I mean, can you have a more balanced sound doing one thing like this? Because I love the ZSN Pro but sometimes the treble gets me even if the bass is a bit more explosive, while the ZS10 Pro is balanced and can handle the treble and giving a good bass anyway.

Thank you!


----------



## citral23

432hz said:


> Thank you so much!
> 
> Also, I got a pair of KZ ZS10Pro and I was wondering, is it worth mixing them like: Left IEM ZSN Pro - Right ZS10 Pro?
> I mean, can you have a more balanced sound doing one thing like this? Because I love the ZSN Pro but sometimes the treble gets me even if the bass is a bit more explosive, while the ZS10 Pro is balanced and can handle the treble and giving a good bass anyway.
> ...



As long as the Police is not around and nobody can see you, you're free to experiment as you wish, just don't get caught.


----------



## 432hz

citral23 said:


> As long as the Police is not around and nobody can see you, you're free to experiment as you wish, just don't get caught.


Damn! It's so dumb and dangerous?I thought it could be a good trick since these 2 IEMs can complete each other in a way!


----------



## mbwilson111

432hz said:


> Thank you so much!
> Also, I got a pair of KZ ZS10Pro and I was wondering, is it worth mixing them like: Left IEM ZSN Pro - Right ZS10 Pro?
> I mean, can you have a more balanced sound doing one thing like this? Because I love the ZSN Pro but sometimes the treble gets me even if the bass is a bit more explosive, while the ZS10 Pro is balanced and can handle the treble and giving a good bass anyway.
> 
> Thank you!



I think my head would explode!


----------



## chinmie

432hz said:


> Thank you so much!
> 
> Also, I got a pair of KZ ZS10Pro and I was wondering, is it worth mixing them like: Left IEM ZSN Pro - Right ZS10 Pro?
> I mean, can you have a more balanced sound doing one thing like this? Because I love the ZSN Pro but sometimes the treble gets me even if the bass is a bit more explosive, while the ZS10 Pro is balanced and can handle the treble and giving a good bass anyway.
> ...



Im afraid it doesn't work like that. Putting two different IEMs like that, and you would shift the stereo balance (noticably the bass and any other centered information of the mix). You could try for the fun of it though.

It would be better to just use EQ to shape your IEM's sound more to your liking


----------



## mbwilson111

chinmie said:


> Im afraid it doesn't work like that. Putting two different IEMs like that, and you would shift the stereo balance (noticably the bass and any other centered information of the mix). You could try for the fun of it though.
> 
> It would be better to just use EQ to shape your IEM's sound more to your liking



One side might be a lot quieter due to different sensitivity.

Timbre could get weird.

I would probably get dizzy.


----------



## chinmie (Nov 12, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> One side might be a lot quieter due to different sensitivity.
> 
> Timbre could get weird.
> 
> I would probably get dizzy.



yup, I'm also easily bothered by channel imbalances, and that situation would make me constantly adjusting the IEM's position to have centered soundstage... which in turn would be impossible because of the different drivers


----------



## shockdoc

Best inexpensive upgrade cable for the Blon 03 on 11-11?


----------



## baskingshark

shockdoc said:


> Best inexpensive upgrade cable for the Blon 03 on 11-11?



If u don't mind the cables not sitting flush (as the BLON cable housing has a unique design), u can consider the NiceHCK 8 core copper cable, retails ~ $6 - 7 USD during the 11/11 sale. Some people want it to be flush though, but it works perfectly fine for me, plus it can be reused on other IEMs unlike some angled para C/QDC type cables that only fit certain CHIFI.

I think some shops now in AE bundle some banned brand cables (angled specially for fitting the BLON) with the BLON.

We can discuss this further in the BLON thread, as this is the KZ thread, but there're many options out there.


----------



## oMalakai

Hey, thanks for the recommendations guys. I ended up getting the TRN V90, and a close friend of mine got a CCA C12. Whenever they get here, I will probably meet with him to compare 'em and see if I made the right choice lol. 

I will report back with my impressions whenever that happens.


----------



## mbwilson111

oMalakai said:


> Hey, thanks for the recommendations guys. I ended up getting the TRN V90, and a close friend of mine got a CCA C12. Whenever they get here, I will probably meet with him to compare 'em and see if I made the right choice lol.
> 
> I will report back with my impressions whenever that happens.



You both made the right choice


----------



## DynamicEars

oMalakai said:


> Hey, thanks for the recommendations guys. I ended up getting the TRN V90, and a close friend of mine got a CCA C12. Whenever they get here, I will probably meet with him to compare 'em and see if I made the right choice lol.
> 
> I will report back with my impressions whenever that happens.



Both of you will not disappointed, there is nothing wrong with those 2 and to date, I can't really say which is the clear winner between V90 and ZSX (similarly to C12), both have great sound for the price, just matter of preferences. V90 more fun sounding with more v shaped with slamming bass, while ZSX/C12 more techie with separation and details


----------



## blockchainhero

I just ordered the KZ ZSX, Blon BL-03, and the Tin T2. Are these three typically considered the same “tier”? Thanks.


----------



## chinmie

blockchainhero said:


> I just ordered the KZ ZSX, Blon BL-03, and the Tin T2. Are these three typically considered the same “tier”? Thanks.



more or less the same level, but they all have different signatures. they're some of the best in their price range, so you can compare which signature you'd like the most


----------



## khighly

Does anybody know if these cables work with KZ's new models with the new connector? Looks like it? Maybe?

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ODW3RpQY


----------



## Baten

blockchainhero said:


> I just ordered the KZ ZSX, Blon BL-03, and the Tin T2. Are these three typically considered the same “tier”? Thanks.


I ordered the Blon, and I'm considering TFZ T2 and KZ ZSX.

has anyone compared the TFZ and the ZSX? I definitely want the BLON but not sure about the other


----------



## DynamicEars

Baten said:


> I ordered the Blon, and I'm considering TFZ T2 and KZ ZSX.
> 
> has anyone compared the TFZ and the ZSX? I definitely want the BLON but not sure about the other



He was referring to TinAudio T2 instead of TFZ T2

but if you are curious about that 2 :
T2 more punchy and slightly v shaped compared to more balanced ZSX
midrange on ZSX are more forwarded
separation and imaging goes to ZSX
TFZ T2 will be more fun with more bass and treble
Fit T2 maybe more comfortable
Soundstage bigger in ZSX


----------



## Baten

DynamicEars said:


> He was referring to TinAudio T2 instead of TFZ T2
> 
> but if you are curious about that 2 :
> T2 more punchy and slightly v shaped compared to more balanced ZSX
> ...


Tnx

Think I'm gonna go Blon + TFZ T2


----------



## oMalakai

mbwilson111 said:


> You both made the right choice



Hope so! He is coming from the ZS3 so, it's gonna be interesting.



DynamicEars said:


> Both of you will not disappointed, there is nothing wrong with those 2 and to date, I can't really say which is the clear winner between V90 and ZSX (similarly to C12), both have great sound for the price, just matter of preferences. V90 more fun sounding with more v shaped with slamming bass, while ZSX/C12 more techie with separation and details



That sounds about what I expected tbh but yeah, at least I will get to compare 'em so that's probably gonna put my mind to ease...or not x)
Now, we just have to wait anyway.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Nov 13, 2019)

CCA C12 treble mod


This mod tames only high frequency 30095 BA. Can be used also on KZ ZSX.

Remove the grill. Remaining glue will still be useful. There is a BA tweeter right under that.


Place taming material on the top of the BA nozzle and cover it with the grill. Material should hold in place, because there is a very little space between BA and grill. 


 

I have very good results with adhesive tape or patch. I'll also try a tissue.


Treble is now placed far from head, darker, less airy. Its very musical for me, when listening to rock or metal music. Voices are same, but hi-hats or cymbals are tamed.


----------



## DynamicEars

xxAMAROKxx said:


> CCA C12 treble mod
> 
> 
> This mod tames only high frequency 30095 BA. Can be used also on KZ ZSX.
> ...



Great. I post similar mods to zsx to reduce the harsh edge of zsx to sound smoother few weeks back. Using animal sponge


----------



## khighly

DynamicEars said:


> Great. I post similar mods to zsx to reduce the harsh edge of zsx to sound smoother few weeks back. Using animal sponge


I'm so happy that you're saying this. I've been wanting a brighter KZ since the original ZS6's


----------



## DynamicEars

khighly said:


> I'm so happy that you're saying this. I've been wanting a brighter KZ since the original ZS6's



nope dont get me wrong, i just did that rto reduce harshness, but the ZSX isn't bright IEM, ZS10 pro is brighter than ZSX. in fact ZSX is balanced with a bit treble roll off. ZS6 way more bright on highs


----------



## khighly

DynamicEars said:


> nope dont get me wrong, i just did that rto reduce harshness, but the ZSX isn't bright IEM, ZS10 pro is brighter than ZSX. in fact ZSX is balanced with a bit treble roll off. ZS6 way more bright on highs


Crap. I want ZS6 brightness again, high extension 

Frequency charts I've seen for ZSX extend higher than ZS10 Pro /shrug.


----------



## DynamicEars

khighly said:


> Crap. I want ZS6 brightness again, high extension
> 
> Frequency charts I've seen for ZSX extend higher than ZS10 Pro /shrug.



ZSX extension from lower end to higher end is good, but they arent bright, the trebles are not intensive or boosted. Like i said zs10 pro still sounded brighter but with that metallic timbre. Treblehead wont satisfied with ZSX


----------



## SomeGuyDude

DynamicEars said:


> nope dont get me wrong, i just did that rto reduce harshness, but the ZSX isn't bright IEM, ZS10 pro is brighter than ZSX. in fact ZSX is balanced with a bit treble roll off. ZS6 way more bright on highs



In fairness the ZS6 was a treble nightmare unless you put some foam tips with a wax guard on them or EQ'd their balls off.


----------



## khighly

SomeGuyDude said:


> In fairness the ZS6 was a treble nightmare unless you put some foam tips with a wax guard on them or EQ'd their balls off.


I absolutely loved them with just foams. They took a few days to get used to, but they had such a giant soundstage with great separation. Probably my favorite memories of all KZ's. I lost one side of my v1's, and the v2's don't sound the same at all


----------



## Crandall

What's everyone using for EQ on the ZSX?

On my ES100 (EQ set to wide Q) I've got them down about 1.5db from 2khz-5khz. And about 1db down around 125hz. Keeps the sub bass presence without mid bleed, (kind of)evens out the upper mids. I'd tried setting it to narrow and making tons of notch filters before based on response graphs, but it didn't end up doing much good as far as I could tell.


----------



## ShakyJake

khighly said:


> I absolutely loved them with just foams. They took a few days to get used to, but they had such a giant soundstage with great separation. Probably my favorite memories of all KZ's. I lost one side of my v1's, and the v2's don't sound the same at all


Do you mean KZ ZS5? There are big differences between v1's and v2's.


----------



## khighly

ShakyJake said:


> Do you mean KZ ZS5? There are big differences between v1's and v2's.


Nope. There are definitely 2 versions of the ZS6. The v1's were treble screamers, v2's have that pulled back A LOT. New does not sound the same as the old. I bought a new pair thinking they'd be the same and I was very disappointed. They kind of sound the same as everything else now lol.


----------



## mbwilson111

khighly said:


> Nope. There are definitely 2 versions of the ZS6. The v1's were treble screamers, v2's have that pulled back A LOT. New does not sound the same as the old. I bought a new pair thinking they'd be the same and I was very disappointed. They kind of sound the same as everything else now lol.



That is interesting  Some people kept saying there was no version2 of the ZS6.   My green one was bought when they first came out so if there are versions mine would be version 1.  However,  I have had no complaints about the treble.   Many users were saying it was too much.  Probably my old ears roll it off enough for me.

Are you saying that you like SCREAMING treble?    Recently we have been awakened by a neighbor child who randomly emits very high pitched screams all though the day and night.  No idea why.  The word "screaming" is a negative one for me.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> That is interesting  Some people kept saying there was no version2 of the ZS6.   My green one was bought when they first came out so if there are versions mine would be version 1.  However,  I have had no complaints about the treble.   Many users were saying it was too much.  Probably my old ears roll it off enough for me.
> 
> Are you saying that you like SCREAMING treble?    Recently we have been awakened by a neighbor child who randomly emits very high pitched screams all though the day and night.  No idea why.  The word "screaming" is a negative one for me.



There wasn’t a v2 originally, despite some people thinking there was. But ironically, there is now.

The confusion started when the grey “extra bass” version came out. KZ also randomly updated the nozzle to include a lip, but it wasn’t color-specific. With those 2 points, some people thought there was a v2. However, the truth was at *that time*, there was only v1 from a sound tuning standpoint.

However, somewhat recently (about 6-8 months ago from what I’ve determined), KZ *DID* make a retuned ZS6 v2 version. They dialed down the treble compared to the original v1.

I own both, and I much prefer the v1. As @khighly implied, the v1 sounds boring and ‘generic’.


----------



## gazzington

Using the zst for the first time in probably a year. Very good, a bargain at the price


----------



## kingcro

Guys... What exactly is detail? ZSX should be more detailed than Blon BL-03, although it doesn't seem like that. ZSX sounds compressed with anything.


----------



## mbwilson111

gazzington said:


> Using the zst for the first time in probably a year. Very good, a bargain at the price



I am giving my ZST a new life.  Recently did the foam mod and during 11:11 I ordered an inexpensive balanced cable for it.  Mine is the carbon color so I ordered this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041090347.html

This one for my ZS10 (red)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33062590820.html  - the bronze option

This one for my green ZSR

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32913561570.html

...and finally.. for my gray  ZS5 V1   It was $12 during the sale

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32915038508.html

All of these were cheaper during the sale and yes, I like all these older models.  Looking forward to dressing them up a bit.


----------



## gazzington

mbwilson111 said:


> I am giving my ZST a new life.  Recently did the foam mod and during 11:11 I ordered an inexpensive balanced cable for it.  Mine is the carbon color so I ordered this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041090347.html
> 
> ...


Nice cables. What's the mod? I might buy the kz terminator next.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Nov 15, 2019)

gazzington said:


> Nice cables. What's the mod? I might buy the kz terminator next.



Slater has posted two links in this post...  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2243#post-14304131

one is to his detailed instructions and the other has some good pictures by someone who has done it


----------



## Slater (Nov 15, 2019)

gazzington said:


> What's the mod?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650

Note that the same foam mod works for any IEM with a BA that’s accessible in the nozzle. I’ve done it to quite a few models (not just KZs).

It’s a great (and free) way to salvage hybrid earphones that have sibilant or otherwise harsh treble. It tames the harshness right down, and can totally transform an earphone that would otherwise end up in the junk drawer.


----------



## gazzington

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650
> 
> Note that the same foam mod works for any IEM with a BA that’s accessible in the nozzle. I’ve done it to quite a few models (not just KZs).
> 
> It’s a great (and free) way to salvage hybrid earphones that have sibilant or otherwise harsh treble. It tames the harshness right down, and can totally transform an earphone that would otherwise end up in the junk drawer.


Thanks I'll give that a go. Matter if interest what's your favourite kz?


----------



## Slater (Nov 15, 2019)

gazzington said:


> Thanks I'll give that a go. Matter if interest what's your favourite kz?



Well, I should mention that there’s a lot of them I don’t have (or have never heard):

E10 TWS
BTE
ZSX
BA10
ES3
ES4
ES12
AS06
AS10
AS16
ZS10 (non-Pro)
ED3 Youth Edition
ED7
ED7 Mini
ED8
ED10
ED11
ED16
GR
RX
DT5
Micro Ring
IE80
the very early revisions of ATE (ie v1-v4)
I may have missed a few other models, but those are the ones I can rattle off the top of my head.

The full list of models I *do own* (or have owned) is in my profile. So of those, I’d have to say that my _personal_ favorites are (in order of cost):

EDR1
ED9
ZS6 v1
ZS10 Pro
ZS7
If I was stuck on a desert island, and I could only take ONE KZ to use for the rest of my life (again, of the ones I own), I’d probably go with the ZS7.


----------



## raccoon city

Slater said:


> If I was stuck on a desert island, and I could only take ONE KZ to use for the rest of my life (again, of the ones I own), I’d probably go with the ZS7.


I'm very glad to hear that.
I ordered a ZS7 for 11/11!


----------



## Slater (Nov 15, 2019)

raccoon city said:


> I'm very glad to hear that.
> I ordered a ZS7 for 11/11!



Yeah, I really need to order a backup pair before they’re gone forever. It’s literally one of the only KZs that I *don’t* have a spare pair of, which is ironic as heck because it’s basically my favorite KZ.

It just kinda slipped my mind during 11.11. I ordered a lot of other stuff, and just kinda forgot about some stuff that I meant to add.

I hope you like them once you receive them!


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> Yeah, I really need to order a backup pair before they’re gone forever. It’s literally one of the only KZs that I *don’t* have a spare pair of, which is ironic because it’s basically my favorite KZ.
> 
> It just kinda slipped my mind during 11.11. I ordered a lot of other stuff, and just kinda forgot about some stuff that I meant to add.



It is quite possible that there will be other sales in the future


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> It is quite possible that there will be other sales in the future



haha, yeah when is there *not* an Aliexpress sale lol


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> haha, yeah when is there *not* an Aliexpress sale lol



for a few days between sales...


----------



## Slater (Nov 15, 2019)

One of these days when I have a chance to check out the ZSX and C12 that everyone raves about, my opinion could change.

But I’m perfectly happy with what I have now, and I honestly doubt the ZSX/C12 is a huge game changer.

I’m not saying they’re bad (I’ve never heard them), just that KZ is all about _incremental improvements_.

I have no doubt that 2 years from now, the stuff they’ll be pumping out will likely be much better than today’s models. But in my experience, they just don’t make mind-blowing changes from 1 model to the next. Just small tweaks and improvements.

That’s why after hearing the ZS10 Pro (and liking it), I am pretty confident that I have a good feeling what to expect from the ZSX/C12.


----------



## genck

The ZS10 Pro are my fav KZ



Spoiler



they are the only KZ I own


 lol


----------



## mbwilson111

My favorite is whatever is in my ears.


----------



## baskingshark

kingcro said:


> Guys... What exactly is detail? ZSX should be more detailed than Blon BL-03, although it doesn't seem like that. ZSX sounds compressed with anything.



We all have different interpretations of the word "detail". 

Personally, I define detail/microdetails as hearing certain "value added" stuff in the music eg ghost notes/hits of drums, singers taking a breath, triangle tings, things dropping on the floor during live recordings, hearing squeaks/slides on a guitar/electric bass, or other additional instrumentation/sounds in a music track that you are very familiar with.

I don't have the ZSX, but I have its predecessor, the ZS10 Pro, and it is quite a detailed set to me compared to the BLON BL-03, which is quite analogue/veiled sounding. Generally the multi BA/hybrids like ZSX/ZS10 Pro would have better "Details" than the single DDs like the BLON. Sometimes one does need to pay attention to the music closely to pick out these details. It can easily pass u by if u are distracted doing other stuff.

I saw u ordered the Audiosense T800, now that is a superbly detailed set with a proper source/source file. When u get the T800, compare it to the BL-03 and it is quite night and day in the details department.


----------



## kingcro

baskingshark said:


> We all have different interpretations of the word "detail".
> 
> Personally, I define detail/microdetails as hearing certain "value added" stuff in the music eg ghost notes/hits of drums, singers taking a breath, triangle tings, things dropping on the floor during live recordings, hearing squeaks/slides on a guitar/electric bass, or other additional instrumentation/sounds in a music track that you are very familiar with.
> 
> ...


Will it be with LG G7 though? And on what songs can you hear breathing?


----------



## baskingshark

kingcro said:


> Will it be with LG G7 though? And on what songs can you hear breathing?



I don't have LG G7, so better ask the others. On a well recorded source file and with a detailed IEM, sometimes u can hear singers taking breaths before they sing a phrase actually. Just cycle thru your playlist and u should hear singers breathing if u pay attention.


----------



## OnTheRoad (Nov 16, 2019)

My KZ ED3c died this week. They served me for over two years. : (

I can't find a good source to buy these from anymore. (Suggestions are welcome!)

Is there anything (new and) comparable out there from KZ?


----------



## mbwilson111

OnTheRoad said:


> My KZ ED3c died this week. They served me for over two years. : (
> 
> I can't find a good source to buy these from anymore. (Suggestions are welcome!)
> 
> Is there anything (new and) comparable out there from KZ?



There are a couple on ebay... located in the UK but will post to other countries.


----------



## ShakyJake (Nov 16, 2019)

khighly said:


> Nope. There are definitely 2 versions of the ZS6. The v1's were treble screamers, v2's have that pulled back A LOT. New does not sound the same as the old. I bought a new pair thinking they'd be the same and I was very disappointed. They kind of sound the same as everything else now lol.


Got it. Are you interested in buying one of my Zs6 V1s? if so PM me.


----------



## Nimweth

Synergy is a strange thing, isn't it? I have unlocked the potential of the ZS10 Pro by using a 16 core TRN cable and the medium bore tips from the TRN V90. It's sounding better than ever and I think I now prefer it to the ZSX, making it my favourite KZ so far. Comfort is also better and the fatigue I was experiencing before has now disappeared. They look cool, too!


----------



## SiggyFraud

Nimweth said:


> Synergy is a strange thing, isn't it? I have unlocked the potential of the ZS10 Pro by using a 16 core TRN cable and the medium bore tips from the TRN V90. It's sounding better than ever and I think I now prefer it to the ZSX, making it my favourite KZ so far. Comfort is also better and the fatigue I was experiencing before has now disappeared. They look cool, too!


I always thought that synergy refers to IEMs and the source? But good for you man!


----------



## raccoon city

synergy:  the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects.


----------



## mbwilson111

raccoon city said:


> synergy:  the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects.



You beat me to it.


----------



## Nimweth

raccoon city said:


> synergy:  the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects.


Couldn't have said it better! That's exactly what I meant.


----------



## mbwilson111

Nimweth said:


> Couldn't have said it better! That's exactly what I meant.



...and that was the dictionary definition.  I love google.  Sometimes I even google a word to make sure I am spelling it right.  Of course you would say I spell "color" wrong


----------



## Nimweth

In my earlier post about the ZS10 Pro I should have mentioned that I still have a soft spot for the ZS7, still one of the most enjoyable IEMs in my collection!


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> In my earlier post about the ZS10 Pro I should have mentioned that I still have a soft spot for the ZS7, still one of the most enjoyable IEMs in my collection!



ZS10 Pro and ZS7 lover? A HeadFier after my own heart


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> ZS10 Pro and ZS7 lover? A HeadFier after my own heart


Yes! They both have that elusive "musicality" which doesn't appear on a FR chart!


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> Yes! They both have that elusive "musicality" which doesn't appear on a FR chart!



And don’t forget that steely sound that makes us all chuckle more on a daily basis!


----------



## citral23

The ZS7 is a special one, vented it has above average soundstage for an IEM, and it also helps that it has more sub than mid-bass, which is well controlled and doesn't bleed into mids (contrary to ZS10 pro) so it sounds really quite open, I like it.


----------



## Nimweth

citral23 said:


> The ZS7 is a special one, vented it has above average soundstage for an IEM, and it also helps that it has more sub than mid-bass, which is well controlled and doesn't bleed into mids (contrary to ZS10 pro) so it sounds really quite open, I like it.


That's how I hear it. I find the mids very organic (probably due to the 31005 BA) and the treble lacks that edge so often found on KZ IEMs. The TRN V90 which is also vented is another favourite of mine.


----------



## lgcubana (Nov 17, 2019)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> CCA C12 treble mod
> 
> 
> This mod tames only high frequency 30095 BA. Can be used also on KZ ZSX.
> ...


My findings on the C12 mimic yours: bright, but not sibilant

If I hadn’t bought the TRN V90 (more to my liking) at the same time as the CCA C12.  I would definitely try dampening that front BA; I did the same thing to my KZ ZS4, with a rolled piece of tissue.

Luckily a friend of mine loves the C12, plugged directly into his iPhone.

thanks for sharing.


----------



## theresanarc

How is the isolation on the KZ ES4s? They seem like they'd be ideal for the bus where I wanna keep the volume low and don't care too much about sound quality + a price under $25ish. The sound signature seems to be more mid-forward from what I've read compared to other KZ buds which is a nice bonus.

I have the ZSNs which aren't very good at isolation with any tip I've tried and the ZS4s which isolate perfectly but are extremely uncomfortable to wear. The shape of the ES4s seems a bit smaller than the ZSNs so I'm hopeful that it will isolate better but without the discomfort of the ZS4s. Also had the EDR1s but those obviously aren't made for much isolation beyond the basic.

I'll consider other options as well of course.


----------



## caprimulgus

voicemaster said:


> Yes BLON is harder to drive than the ZSX. With my BT20s, I need to go to 84-90% with BLON, while with ZSX, 80% is plenty loud.



Sorry to quote a post from a while back, but Iv'e just ordered both of these (BLON 03 & KZ ZSX), and I'm looking to pick up a pair of BT20S as well - will probably use one as a TWS, and one wired.

Aside from the volume difference, does one of these IEMs go better with the BT20S than the other? (I think they have different pin size, so want to buy the right pin size for the one I'm more likely to use)

If it makes a difference, I'd probably use the BT20S pair mostly for (non-FPS) gaming paired with a Genki bluetooth transmitter on Nintendo Switch. For music listening I'd probably use the other pair wired with DAP (but I guess I'd listen to some music on the bluetooth one as well). I'm a basshead, and listen mostly to hip hop, and a bit of pop/"edm" (as the kids call it these days!).

Any thoughts from those who have both would be much appreciated! Pretty new to the chi-fi world! (Although I do have a pair of ZS5 as well)


----------



## voicemaster

caprimulgus said:


> Sorry to quote a post from a while back, but Iv'e just ordered both of these (BLON 03 & KZ ZSX), and I'm looking to pick up a pair of BT20S as well - will probably use one as a TWS, and one wired.
> 
> Aside from the volume difference, does one of these IEMs go better with the BT20S than the other? (I think they have different pin size, so want to buy the right pin size for the one I'm more likely to use)
> 
> ...



Well bt20s has aptx. Both ZSX and BLON are pretty good paired with bt20s. I am using my bt20s to play dota2 and I do find it works just fine. get the 0.75mm two pin for both ZSX and BLON. I think the ZSX will be better for edm than the BLON, but I listen to everything using BLON and find it just fine.


----------



## caprimulgus

voicemaster said:


> get the 0.75mm two pin for both ZSX and BLON.


I’m a bit hesitant to use the BT20S on both, cause I read that 2-pin sockets can loosen over time with repeated connection. Trying to minimise the changing of cables.

Plus isn’t the BLON 0.78mm 2-pin? (I know the 0.75mm 2-pin would probably fit ok, but I thought I would be better off getting the correct size?)


----------



## Mybutthurts

Maybe of interest to fellow KZers.
Although, nothing really new to us.

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2019/11/18/kz-zst-in-ear-monitors/


----------



## Nimweth

OnTheRoad said:


> My KZ ED3c died this week. They served me for over two years. : (
> 
> I can't find a good source to buy these from anymore. (Suggestions are welcome!)
> 
> Is there anything (new and) comparable out there from KZ?


I have just found this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Knowledge-Zenith-ED3c-Earphones-Blue/dp/B01CU4PZ8U
Good luck!


----------



## macky112

Slater said:


> ZS10 Pro and ZS7 lover? A HeadFier after my own heart



ok I’ll let go of the buy button for ZSX and keep enjoying my ZS7 and ZS10 Pro... lol

when can we expect the successor to the ZSX?


----------



## HungryPanda

macky112 said:


> ok I’ll let go of the buy button for ZSX and keep enjoying my ZS7 and ZS10 Pro... lol
> 
> when can we expect the successor to the ZSX?


Sooner rather than later I reckon


----------



## Nimweth

macky112 said:


> ok I’ll let go of the buy button for ZSX and keep enjoying my ZS7 and ZS10 Pro... lol
> 
> when can we expect the successor to the ZSX?


It's been a long time already in the KZ world. I reckon it'll be a carbon DD!


----------



## Mouseman

Nimweth said:


> It's been a long time already in the KZ world. I reckon it'll be a carbon DD!


I'm hoping for a low-voltage electrostat or a planar.


----------



## macky112

Nimweth said:


> It's been a long time already in the KZ world. I reckon it'll be a carbon DD!


Can I wish for a ZS7 successor with even better sub-bass


----------



## Crandall

macky112 said:


> Can I wish for a ZS7 successor with even better sub-bass


Better, yes. 
More, hopefully not.


----------



## Nimweth

Crandall said:


> Can I wish for a ZS7 successor with even better sub-bass


KZ did say that the ZSX was "the terminator of the hybrid series" so that may not happen, but yes, an improved ZS7 would be great!


----------



## Seazer

caprimulgus said:


> Sorry to quote a post from a while back, but Iv'e just ordered both of these (BLON 03 & KZ ZSX), and I'm looking to pick up a pair of BT20S as well - will probably use one as a TWS, and one wired.
> 
> Aside from the volume difference, does one of these IEMs go better with the BT20S than the other? (I think they have different pin size, so want to buy the right pin size for the one I'm more likely to use)
> 
> ...


BLON would work better than zsx because it is less sensitive. The zsx would hiss significantly more with the bt20s


----------



## caprimulgus

Seazer said:


> BLON would work better than zsx because it is less sensitive. The zsx would hiss significantly more with the bt20s



Ah cool, yeah might go with the BLON then. I prefer the smaller size of the BLON too, cause if it's going to be TWS, may as well be as small as possible! 

I think someone earlier in the thread said BLON would be better for gaming anyway, so seems to be the way to go! Cheers!


----------



## lerorin

Just got my ZSX early of the week. Was wondering what cable should I get to replace the stock cable.

Is this good enough as a replacement?
https://shopee.com.my/product/26383131/2311829005?smtt=0.0.9


----------



## OnTheRoad

Thanks for the heads up Nimweth! Are the ED3C worth that amount (£17)? Or is there anything similar out there for that price point from KZ up to £25?


----------



## revand

lerorin said:


> Just got my ZSX early of the week. Was wondering what cable should I get to replace the stock cable.
> 
> Is this good enough as a replacement?
> https://shopee.com.my/product/26383131/2311829005?smtt=0.0.9



Don't buy copper cable! I failed with a JCALLY copper cable.
Here you can get the answer to your question. (use Google Translate)


----------



## mbwilson111

revand said:


> Don't buy copper cable! I failed with a JCALLY copper cable.
> Here you can get the answer to your question. (use Google Translate)



What do you mean you failed?  Nothing wrong with choosing copper cables... I often do.


----------



## zachmal (Nov 21, 2019)

revand said:


> Don't buy copper cable! I failed with a JCALLY copper cable.
> Here you can get the answer to your question. (use Google Translate)



that merely indicates that the jcally16 cable might be rather bad in quality (conductivity ? bad quality jack connector and other characteristics have been mentioned),

as far as I know it has been mentioned on the cable thread that others would better

no need to over-generalize towards cables, the other mentioned cable from the banned yoyo brand is copper as well (worse quality plating also has been mentioned on the non well-recommended cables)

so it just might be that e.g. it's worse than Nicehck 16 core or other brands and not directly to do with copper (aren't most cables copper anyway ?)

**edit*:*

it has been mentioned that some IEMs are *very* (extremely!) tip, source and cable dependent

so if don't harmonize well - the output can be pretty disappointing so it might not be exactly the cable that it's at fault, it just doesn't match with that particular IEM


----------



## macky112

Nimweth said:


> KZ did say that the ZSX was "the terminator of the hybrid series" so that may not happen, but yes, an improved ZS7 would be great!



does that mean KZ will only create new models with all BA?  i am uninformed, but can all BA IEM produce big sub bass for gaming and movies?


----------



## Mouseman

macky112 said:


> does that mean KZ will only create new models with all BA?  i am uninformed, but can all BA IEM produce big sub bass for gaming and movies?


It's probably The Terminator until they come out with #2, #3 and KZ Dark Fate. 

BA can do deep bass, but you have to have at least one dedicated bass driver (or a double), but I have yet to hear one that moves the kind of air and shakes your head like a DD can.


----------



## baskingshark

macky112 said:


> does that mean KZ will only create new models with all BA?  i am uninformed, but can all BA IEM produce big sub bass for gaming and movies?





Mouseman said:


> It's probably The Terminator until they come out with #2, #3 and KZ Dark Fate.
> 
> BA can do deep bass, but you have to have at least one dedicated bass driver (or a double), but I have yet to hear one that moves the kind of air and shakes your head like a DD can.



There are pure multi BAs that can move air and extend low in the subbass and provide good quantity of subbass, but those I have heard with such qualities are in the higher price range.
Eg. Westone 3 (3 BA) can move more air and decay longer/greater subbass quantity/extension than the BLON BL-03 (single DD). The Audiosense T800 (8 BA) can move air like a DD due to its vented subwoofer and tuning, and from my ears it can extend to 20 - 25 hZ subbass in extension.

In the < $250 USD range, I think it's still cheaper to go for a hybrid (DD bass) to get the bass quantity/extension you require.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> What do you mean you failed?  Nothing wrong with choosing copper cables... I often do.


I agree. And nothing wrong with the JCally 8 core copper cables either, imo. I have a balanced one on my ZS10 PRO and it sounds and works great. Sounds much better than the stock KZ cable, is less prone to tangling and has a chin slider. Copper cable are also great for taming iems that may be a bit bright sounding and give better bass definition to iems that might sound a bit lacking in the bass dept. Nothing wrong at all, with a good quality copper cable.


----------



## macky112

baskingshark said:


> There are pure multi BAs that can move air and extend low in the subbass and provide good quantity of subbass, but those I have heard with such qualities are in the higher price range.
> Eg. Westone 3 (3 BA) can move more air and decay longer/greater subbass quantity/extension than the BLON BL-03 (single DD). The Audiosense T800 (8 BA) can move air like a DD due to its vented subwoofer and tuning, and from my ears it can extend to 20 - 25 hZ subbass in extension.
> 
> In the < $250 USD range, I think it's still cheaper to go for a hybrid (DD bass) to get the bass quantity/extension you require.



does that mean I better stick up on them ZS7 before they disappear from the market?  
Or... wishful thinking KZ will make an all BA ZS7-equivalent?


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 22, 2019)

macky112 said:


> does that mean I better stick up on them ZS7 before they disappear from the market?
> Or... wishful thinking KZ will make an all BA ZS7-equivalent?



I'm not a CHIFI insider, but I think when they said ZSX was "the terminator of the hybrid series", I think it is a translation issue. Much like Oppoty and Driams in BLONs.  IMHO KZ probably won't give up on the hybrids since these hybrids are very popular and probably contribute a lot of earnings for them. They did try to venture into the all BA market that is > $100 USD with the KZ AS16, but it was not too successful cause they tried to fight with big boys in the > $100 USD market, where it is not so forgiving as the sub $50 bracket. I seriously doubt they can make an all BA set with good bass like the ZS7 for < $50 USD. But well, just 3 years ago, nobody would have believed a hybrid with multiple drivers can be sub $50, so one can always hope.

Just in the middle of this year, KZ were releasing stuff on an almost monthly basis. Not sure why they are having radio silence since the KZ Terminator and their wireless IEM came out. But for sure, this is not the last we have heard from them. As Terminator says, "I'll be back!"


----------



## claxxion

Just got myself a ZS10 Pro paired with KZ's 8-core gold cable and TRN foam tips. The gold cable feels premium and less prone to tangle compared to stock ones. Loving this combo. It has less muddy bass and overall improved clarity compared to the ZSN. I often pair it with my Fiio BTR3 on the go.

Previously I've been using he original ZSN for the past 10 months. Found it to be superb in value for its low price. Therefore was curious to try KZ's mid range offerings.


----------



## gbrgbr (Nov 22, 2019)

The KZ Para-A and Para-B cable connector have one rounded side and a straight side.  I remember reading here that the pin *nearer to the rounded side is +ve* and the the other is ground. Please confirm, I just can't find that post.

I'm trying to fit a MMCX connector to the KZ Type-C cable, btw.

*EDIT* : I should have just checked Salter's sig !


----------



## emeraldstone

gbrgbr said:


> The KZ Para-A and Para-B cable connector have one rounded side and a straight side.  I remember reading here that the pin *nearer to the rounded side is +ve* and the the other is ground. Please confirm, I just can't find that post.
> 
> I'm trying to fit a MMCX connector to the KZ Type-C cable, btw.


From @Slater: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1194#post-13516067

_



			On KZ IEMs, the FLAT side is ground, and the rounded side is +. Some aftermarket cables do have a red dot on the 2-pin plug, which indicates that pin is +. If you have a non-KZ cable and are confused or unsure of the proper orientation, ask 1st before plugging it in to prevent possible damage to the IEM.
		
Click to expand...

_


----------



## nxnje

Many daya listening to many IEMs.
TRN V90, CCA C12, ZSX and guys.. TRN V90 are so good.
The C12 are more balanced and technically better imho, but i like the V90 very much moreover if compared to the ZSX.
One word: ENGAGING
The review is theorically online but the website is on maintenance so images are not available, but the textual part is readable. 
https://www.audio-monkeys.com in the in ear section


----------



## Arny

Hello.
I am currently choosing the appropriate wired headphones. I decide between KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ ZSX. I would like to ask which would you rather recommend as the most suitable?
I listen to film music: Avatar, Last Samurai, popular and classical music ... (no rock/metal)

Is something better than this types of KZ under 50 dollars? What is your experience with these headphones? Do you have a comparison? I will listen to music on my mobile (Xiaomi). Thanks a lot.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Arny said:


> Hello.
> I am currently choosing the appropriate wired headphones. I decide between KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ ZSX. I would like to ask which would you rather recommend as the most suitable?
> I listen to film music: Avatar, Last Samurai, popular and classical music ... (no rock/metal)
> 
> Is something better than this types of KZ under 50 dollars? What is your experience with these headphones? Do you have a comparison? I will listen to music on my mobile (Xiaomi). Thanks a lot.


I have CCA C12 (close relative of ZSX, same internals, different shell, slightly different tuning) and ZS10 pro.
C12 and KZX are the newest generation and will do better for classical (to me ZS10 pro more fit for electronic music).
So either CCA C12 or ZSX will be a good choice, depending on your preference in how they look, etc.


----------



## Mouseman

Arny said:


> Hello.
> I am currently choosing the appropriate wired headphones. I decide between KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ ZSX. I would like to ask which would you rather recommend as the most suitable?
> I listen to film music: Avatar, Last Samurai, popular and classical music ... (no rock/metal)
> 
> Is something better than this types of KZ under 50 dollars? What is your experience with these headphones? Do you have a comparison? I will listen to music on my mobile (Xiaomi). Thanks a lot.


I think the ZSXs would be the better choice. The ZS10 Pros are a little "edgy" for classical and film music, and the ZSXs have such a rich and full sound, and a better soundstage.


----------



## Arny (Nov 22, 2019)

And how about comparing KZ ZSX vs TRN V90 vs CCA-C12? Which ones are better? Which are more sophisticated? Someone told me he read that the ZSX was said to have too much aggressive height. Is it true?
Which of these headphones, please, are better on classical, film, pop and not rock / metal?


----------



## Mouseman

Arny said:


> And how about comparing KZ ZSX vs TRN V90 vs CCA-C12? Which ones are better? Which are more sophisticated? Someone told me he read that the ZSX was said to have too much aggressive height. Is it true?
> Which of these headphones, please, are better on classical, film, pop and not rock / metal?


I think that's a matter of personal preference. I like the ZSXs on everything from jazz, to rock, to classical music. They have great detail and soundstage, and I think they have the bass you need for cinematic music. I haven't fallen head over heels with the TRN V90s like everyone else, but they are very nice overall (I just like the ZSXs more). I don't have the C12s, so I can't comment on them.


----------



## Caipirina

Wow, just skimmed through a month of posts ... funny someone managed to find an ED7 ..   missing that one in my stable ... 

still wondering if I should go for the AS12 on black friday, but it feels like a completist buy  .. and different color scheme, yeah! But I already have the AS16 ... I read about the AS12 they have a punchy BA bass? 
Anyone with both, the 12 and 16 recommend to have both?  

and yes, it has been mighty quiet on the KZ front since Terminator and E10 TWS ... what's up with that? Need more KZ in my life!


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 22, 2019)

Caipirina said:


> and yes, it has been mighty quiet on the KZ front since Terminator and E10 TWS ... what's up with that? Need more KZ in my life!



Not to worry, KZ will be back.


----------



## HungryPanda




----------



## SoundChoice

HungryPanda said:


>



A: “You promised no more after 11-11!”

B: “But Black Friday will be lit”


----------



## Caipirina

SoundChoice said:


> A: “You promised no more after 11-11!”
> 
> B: “But Black Friday will be lit”



OMG that's so spot on!


----------



## Mouseman

11-11, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, a random Friday -- they're all holidays for us headphone junkies.


----------



## KevDzn

Actually headphone/earphone junkies don't need any holiday sales to satisfied their needs......


----------



## nxnje

Hello everyone. Finally my website is online again and I can share my review of the TRN V90.
They're so good just like I have said today. Couldn't wait to share my opinions with you!

https://audio-monkeys.com/in-ear/trn-v90-en/

Anyway


Arny said:


> Hello.
> I am currently choosing the appropriate wired headphones. I decide between KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ ZSX. I would like to ask which would you rather recommend as the most suitable?
> I listen to film music: Avatar, Last Samurai, popular and classical music ... (no rock/metal)
> 
> Is something better than this types of KZ under 50 dollars? What is your experience with these headphones? Do you have a comparison? I will listen to music on my mobile (Xiaomi). Thanks a lot.


I have the ZSX and I have reviewed them as well with a little comparison vs ZS10 Pros. If you wanna take a read you can reach the ZSX review by this link: https://audio-monkeys.com/in-ear/kz-zsx-en/

In any case, if I have to be honest, i like both.. but if I had to choose for my personal taste I would pick the ZS10 Pros. The ZSX are less edgy, a bit more refined in the bass region and with a treble region with is less aggressive, but the ZS10 Pros sound more open, with a better lower midrange and better extension in the upper end.
These are just my 2$ (writing with my ZSX in the ear, they're sure engaging anyway). That's a though choice even for me to tip you what to buy, but if you want something more relaxed which is still highly dynamic and good for many genres, the ZSX will do their job.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Caipirina said:


> Wow, just skimmed through a month of posts ... funny someone managed to find an ED7 ..   missing that one in my stable ...
> 
> still wondering if I should go for the AS12 on black friday, but it feels like a completist buy  .. and different color scheme, yeah! But I already have the AS16 ... I read about the AS12 they have a punchy BA bass?
> Anyone with both, the 12 and 16 recommend to have both?
> ...




Hi, I have both and AS12 are overall better earphones.
More bass with same qualities
Way better Mids. Smooth and non-aggressive.
Maybe not as detailed, but more coherent, open heights. There is a very good transition from mids to heights.

What makes me always happy is AS12 soundstage  All instruments are placed further from me in a wide arc. I've never heard better from multi-BAs’ iems 
On high volume AS16 become harshy at mids very quickly. AS12 can be harshy at heights with wrong cable. But it still sounds engaging on high volume, not fatiguing. The best is Pure OCC copper for them imho. 

I totally love them, combination of their unique bright signature, coherency, soundstage and sufficient details makes me electrized  So yes, go for it


----------



## Caipirina

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hi, I have both and AS12 are overall better earphones.
> More bass with same qualities
> Way better Mids. Smooth and non-aggressive.
> Maybe not as detailed, but more coherent, open heights. There is a very good transition from mids to heights.
> ...



Great info! 
Now I know what to get on 12.29


----------



## Arny

And what about CCA C12? Is it worse than KZ ZSX/ZS10 Pro?


----------



## johanchandy (Nov 24, 2019)

Arny said:


> And what about CCA C12? Is it worse than KZ ZSX/ZS10 Pro?



From what I've read and from the reviews on youtube, a lot of people like the cca c12's slightly more than the zsx but some others think they are at the same level but just offer a slightly different sound signature so it's then a matter of which signature you prefer more. I personally adore the Zsx's with New Bee foam eartips. I even prefer them over my tfz t2's even though the youtuber Zpolt prefers his t2's over the zsx so ymmv (Zpolt also has a review of the cca c12's in which he compares them to the zsx).


----------



## goa604

What multi driver model would be the best for bass heavy music? I do not prefer distorted and boomy bass but i would like something with great bass without sacrificing the rest in an unreasonable amount. Cheers


----------



## zachmal

goa604 said:


> What multi driver model would be the best for bass heavy music? I do not prefer distorted and boomy bass but i would like something with great bass without sacrificing the rest in an unreasonable amount. Cheers



KZ only or in  general ?


----------



## Nimweth

goa604 said:


> What multi driver model would be the best for bass heavy music? I do not prefer distorted and boomy bass but i would like something with great bass without sacrificing the rest in an unreasonable amount. Cheers


Of the multi driver IEMs in my collection I can recommend the KZ ZS7 and the TRN V90. Both have excellent bass and should suit you.


----------



## goa604

Nimweth said:


> Of the multi driver IEMs in my collection I can recommend the KZ ZS7 and the TRN V90. Both
> 
> have excellent bass and should suit you.


Thank you i will do some research regarding those two. 



zachmal said:


> KZ only or in  general ?


To avoid further confusion i am looking mainly at KZ because of their pricing and my good experience. Other brands that offer such gems under $100 are also welcome. 
Thank you.


----------



## HungryPanda

Also consider the BQEYZ BQ3


----------



## Slater

goa604 said:


> What multi driver model would be the best for bass heavy music? I do not prefer distorted and boomy bass but i would like something with great bass without sacrificing the rest in an unreasonable amount. Cheers



ZS7


----------



## HungryPanda

ZS10 Pro


----------



## Arny

Would you please help me choose a better cable for the CCA C12 headphones? I read that it pays to buy it (silver plated / gold plated?) Is it really worth it? Is there a significant difference in sound quality? Which would you recommend? If possible from Aliexpress. I don't know which one could fit me.
Thank you


----------



## Crandall (Nov 25, 2019)

Arny said:


> Would you please help me choose a better cable for the CCA C12 headphones? I read that it pays to buy it (silver plated / gold plated?) Is it really worth it? Is there a significant difference in sound quality? Which would you recommend? If possible from Aliexpress. I don't know which one could fit me.
> Thank you


You won't hear a difference in sound quality with a different cable unless the original cable is broken, wired out of phase, or sound is cutting out with movement. Cable resistance won't have an audible effect on the impedance curve of your headphones, especially if the device you're powering them with already has a fairly low output impedance. (My opinion, some disagree) That said, the stock cables are a tangly, uncomfortable mess. I got the KBear cable here for my ZSX(same connector) and it's very comfortable and doesn't tangle. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33039401362.html
I use the 3.5mm jack, QDC is the name of the connector type of the C12s.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Arny said:


> Would you please help me choose a better cable for the CCA C12 headphones? I read that it pays to buy it (silver plated / gold plated?) Is it really worth it? Is there a significant difference in sound quality? Which would you recommend? If possible from Aliexpress. I don't know which one could fit me.
> Thank you


I second the above opinion that an upgrade cable for CCA C12 can improve ergonomics and aesthetics but hardly the sound (definitely not in my experience) especially of C12 since it was designed well to be used with a simple sources, like smartphones.


----------



## Mybutthurts

Arny said:


> Would you please help me choose a better cable for the CCA C12 headphones? I read that it pays to buy it (silver plated / gold plated?) Is it really worth it? Is there a significant difference in sound quality? Which would you recommend? If possible from Aliexpress. I don't know which one could fit me.
> Thank you



Have a look over on CCA thread, on the last page there are a couple of upgrade cables I use.
With images.


----------



## 40lb

This thread needs more pictures, so much talk and not enough pictures. I'm currently feeling the KSX right now.


----------



## genck

40lb said:


> This thread needs more pictures, so much talk and not enough pictures. I'm currently feeling the KSX right now.


KZ ZS10 Pro for the win


----------



## goa604

HungryPanda said:


> Also consider the BQEYZ BQ3


This came second in my concideration. Thank you. If I'm not happy with my first choice I will go with those.


Nimweth said:


> Of the multi driver IEMs in my collection I can recommend the KZ ZS7 and the TRN V90. Both have excellent bass and should suit you.


I decided to go with TRN V90, lots of positive reviews mentioning the strengths I'm exactly looking for. Thank you.


----------



## darmanastartes

40lb said:


> This thread needs more pictures, so much talk and not enough pictures. I'm currently feeling the KSX right now.


What cable is that?


----------



## oMalakai

They arrived just in time! My ED-16 cable died this morning. Impressions so far? Not so different...but everything is a bit better, more airy, more defined, better soundstage and super comfortable actually. Sound really natural. Loving them! Btw, thanks to whoever recommended me to get them from the seller that includes the silver cable for free. It's a super light cable that almost feels like a rope.


----------



## zachmal

oMalakai said:


> They arrived just in time! My ED-16 cable died this morning. Impressions so far? Not so different...but everything is a bit better, more airy, more defined, better soundstage and super comfortable actually. Sound really natural. Loving them! Btw, thanks to whoever recommended me to get them from the seller that includes the silver cable for free. It's a super light cable that almost feels like a rope.



wrong thread ?

there's a TRN impressions thread as well: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/


----------



## oMalakai

zachmal said:


> wrong thread ?
> 
> there's a TRN impressions thread as well: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/



Nah, I'm just posting here cos I asked advice from people to what should I  get next, after my KZ ED-16. Just sharing some


----------



## Slater

oMalakai said:


> Btw, thanks to whoever recommended me to get them from the seller that includes the silver cable for free. It's a super light cable that almost feels like a rope.



Is there a chin slider for that silver rope cable? The marketing material says yes, but none of the photos show one, and I can't see one in your photo either.


----------



## oMalakai

Slater said:


> Is there a chin slider for that silver rope cable? The marketing material says yes, but none of the photos show one, and I can't see one in your photo either.



Nah it doesn't have one. It is just how it looks, a "plain" cable.


----------



## khighly

zachmal said:


> wrong thread ?
> 
> there's a TRN impressions thread as well: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/


Yeah isn't this a KZ-specific thread? Too much non-KZ in here recently, in my opinion.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Nov 29, 2019)

oMalakai said:


> Nah, I'm just posting here cos I asked advice from people to what should I  get next, after my KZ ED-16. Just sharing some


Hi, I have the ED16, very good and neutral sound, I find that CCA C12 is a good step above and I recommand it to everyone. Just fit triple flange tips to increase the bass level, then it is perfect !


----------



## oMalakai

jeromeaparis said:


> Hi, I have the ED16, very good and neutral sound, I find that CCA C12 is a good step above and I recommand it to everyone. Just fit triple flange tips to increase the bass level, then it is perfect !



I'm not too much of a fan of triple flange ones tbh, they always look rather uncomfortable but hey, i will see about that then. I've been enjoying the TRN V90 that I just got but I recognize that they are a bit brighter than expected and that I miss maybe some extra mids. At least I will get to try the CCA C12 as soon as my friend gets them so, we will see how that goes.


----------



## Lawstorant

Guys, I need to get back to KZ game as my last backup pair of EDR2s died back in July and my ATH-M50x are not always usable (running, cycling, chores etc). What is some recent-ish cheap HZ IEM that's recommended? Cheap as in up to $15.


----------



## AU4U

shockdoc said:


> Anyone care to comment on some of the better values in upgraded cables for a novice KZ collector. My latest is only the ZSN but I'm considering the ZS10 Pro in the near future. Oh, and I don't have a balanced source. TIA


What is holding me off from the purchase of the ZS10 Pro is the lack of quality 90° 2.5mm TRRS C pin wires.
This lack of quality wires is pushing me away from the KZ line and towards an IEM that have the MMCX connector, which I can find plenty of 25 core with a 90° 2.5mm.
What have you found for 2.5mm upgrade wires?


----------



## pbui44

Lawstorant said:


> Guys, I need to get back to KZ game as my last backup pair of EDR2s died back in July and my ATH-M50x are not always usable (running, cycling, chores etc). What is some recent-ish cheap HZ IEM that's recommended? Cheap as in up to $15.



KZ EDR2 are still in stock here, so get as many as you can:

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-EDR2-HIFI-Strong-Earphone/dp/B01MYZNS9V


----------



## Slater

Lawstorant said:


> Guys, I need to get back to KZ game as my last backup pair of EDR2s died back in July and my ATH-M50x are not always usable (running, cycling, chores etc). What is some recent-ish cheap HZ IEM that's recommended? Cheap as in up to $15.



EDR2 is worn down. You looking for something that you can wear down, or are you ok with something that goes up and around the ear?


----------



## Lawstorant

Slater said:


> EDR2 is worn down. You looking for something that you can wear down, or are you ok with something that goes up and around the ear?


Anything goes. I didn't mind KZ ZS3 and used Soundmagic PL50 some time ago.


----------



## raccoon city (Dec 1, 2019)

I received my KZ ZS7 and corresponding cable today, which I purchased on 11/11.
It definitely has better bass than the KZ ES4, but I'm not sure if it's worth the premium price.
I'm glad I have it, and it'll be what I use when I need an IEM, which, honestly, isn't that often.
Most of the time I use over-ear headphones, but I like having some nice IEMs because they're portable.
I also like the blue metal body of the ZS7.
It looks classy.


----------



## jeromeaparis (Dec 2, 2019)

AU4U said:


> What is holding me off from the purchase of the ZS10 Pro is the lack of quality 90° 2.5mm TRRS C pin wires.
> This lack of quality wires is pushing me away from the KZ line and towards an IEM that have the MMCX connector, which I can find plenty of 25 core with a 90° 2.5mm.
> What have you found for 2.5mm upgrade wires?


Hi, you can easily find on AliExpress good balanced 2.5mm cables with C pin.
I believe you do not need a big heavy cable to inprove the sound.
I baught a KBear silver plated 2.5mm at 12€ for my C12, very satisfied with the build and sound !

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33039772804.html


----------



## fokta




----------



## Awsan

Hey everyone I wanted to ask if you were an EDM guy that likes bass (Not the muddy garbage one) and want to choose between these three:

KZ ZS7
KZ ZS10 pro
KZ ZSX 

I had an ATH-IM70 that I liked how it sound but I am not sure how it will compare to each (And although this is a KZ thread do you have any other brands recommendation)

Thanks


----------



## HungryPanda

I prefer ZS10 Pro myself


----------



## bemymonkey

Between the ZS10 Pro and the ZS7 I would pick the ZS7 for EDM. More thump with less harshness at higher listening volumes.


----------



## Seazer

I love ZSX. Zs10 pro are also pretty good but a bit more aggressive and are obsolete with the existance of the CCA C12, which have an extremely similar tuning but with better technicalities and tighter bass.


----------



## Mouseman

Awsan said:


> Hey everyone I wanted to ask if you were an EDM guy that likes bass (Not the muddy garbage one) and want to choose between these three:
> 
> KZ ZS7
> KZ ZS10 pro
> ...


I would say, depending on your budget, ZS10 Pro on the lower price end and *only *if you're not treble sensitive. Not because they are peaky, but because some EDM can have splashy treble and synth hits that might get magnified by the Pro's sound signature and may become fatiguing. I don't think you can go wrong with the ZSX for the higher price, and its bass will kick you in the head. It's also better all around, IMHO.


----------



## Awsan

Thanks a lot everyone for your replies and forgive me for being too pushy but for a last comparison (ZSX,ZS7,CCA C12) which one would you recommend.

And thanks


----------



## Nimweth

Awsan said:


> Thanks a lot everyone for your replies and forgive me for being too pushy but for a last comparison (ZSX,ZS7,CCA C12) which one would you recommend.
> 
> And thanks


I have all three. For your preferred genres I would recommend the ZS7. Also you can use normal 2 pin cables and not QDC types. Bear in mind also that you may get improved sound with good wide bore tips.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ZSX is god-tier. That is all.


----------



## eclein

C12 ....Hey folks did I miss anything in The Land of KZ?
I’ve been on the mend from the brutal and tortuous invasion of Gout in my left foot (ankle,big toe).
Never get gout or as the pretty ER doc told me “serious arthritis” she wasn’t kidding!

Any new hot KZ iems, I saw the wireless offerings, meh!


----------



## raccoon city (Dec 4, 2019)

From what I hear, the latest KZ IEM is the KZ ZSX Terminator.
How long have you been gone?


----------



## eclein

Not super long, that model was out before I drifted away......ok so no huge releases. I’ve been listening to music and staying off my feet. Reading just a few threads. 
Not really as gone as I sounded...sorry!


----------



## HungryPanda

it's all Blon talk now


----------



## Slater (Dec 4, 2019)

2019 was really different than 2018.

In 2018, they released earphones every 3-4 weeks.

In 2019, there were (I think) 4 total?

I’m glad they slowed down though. Look at how much better the 2019 releases were - ZS10 Pro, ZSX, C12, etc.

I’d much rather have quality than quantity.

We should be getting the C18 at some point soon (or whatever they’re going to call it). I am honestly surprised they didn’t have it out for 11.11. They teased it over a year ago (maybe even 18 months ago).

Myself, I would love to see a follow up to the ZS7. The ZS8 ohhh yeaaahhh (said in a Macho Man Randy Savage voice lol)

Man, I was just enjoying the original *ZS1 v1* (brass ring) last night. How far things have come!! It still holds up though, like good vinyl on a vintage hifi setup. I’ve been wanting to do an mmcx conversion on it, but I’m very hesitant. It’s too rare and too good to risk screwing up.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> 2019 was really different than 2018.
> 
> In 2018, they released earphones every 3-4 weeks.
> 
> ...


Listening largely to C16 an C12, I sadly miss C18 all this time 
Ordered NX7 pro out of the sadness, no high expectations though.


----------



## pbui44

A nice starter set of KZ and others for $25 here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kz-zst-zs3-ed7-ed4-iem-and-mrice-e100a-earbud-bundle.920696/


----------



## gbrgbr

@Slater 
Ref : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3262#post-15321087

I got a friend who has a multi-meter to attach MMCX connectors to the KZ Type-C DAC cable (Para-A). The cable was cut to attach the MMCX connectors btw. He faced some problems like : the inner (metal) core of the cable seemed to be covered with some kind of nylon (?) sheath so it was difficult to solder (he then actually burned off the sheath). Also the live cable seemed to be different from the ground : live was golden/brass while the ground was silver.

I was wondering if you could please write a small guide / provide tips for such projects. Especially for soldering such tiny components.




 

I used the original **** MMCX cable (I have a better MMCX cable). If I like the **** + KZ Type-C combo I'll buy MMCX connectors and attach them to the Type-C cable.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

I have KZ ES4, ZSN and ZSN pro

KZ ES4 reacts to Harman eq curve (auto-eq github) the best.

And KZ ES4 sounds technically better than ZSN and ZSN pro(yes...the ZSN pro is the worst sounding to my ear)

ES4 doesnt hiss, keeps a stable image and is not over the top loud.

ZSN bass decay collapses the whole stage for weird letterbox type of sound stage

And this becomes too extreme on ZSN pro.

Since ZSN and ES4 measured the same...I tried the EQ(Harman curve)
And ZSN sounded nice...but bass decays a lot more and the decay feels artificial

Made the ZSN pro curve myself by taking a comparison between ZS10pro and ZSN pro and then editing the ZS10pro Harman target file to ZSN pro

ZSN pro improved a lot...

But that bad hissing is still there... And I have tried 4 pairs of ZSN pro (friends got it) to confirm the hiss...and the hiss exist.

Ok review

ZSN pro volume down > ZSN > ES4

After EQ

ES4>>>>> ZSN > ZSN pro


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 7, 2019)

Happily reporting:
KZ AS12 - the insight of Master @Slater for a possibility in removing treble filters.

Worked really well for AS12 for me!
Previously I did it for CCA C16, which resulted in definite positive changes - bringing more life to the treble.

For AS12 it was more startling.
I almost put AS12 aside, for me the timbre felt quite a bit distorted. Muffled treble, some unnaturalness, especially in orchestral brass.

With the filters removed, AS12 are so much more enjoyable for me! So much more natural! The treble got hotter, but I feel it is much closer approximation for me how I hear the live music that can often get a bit harsh, but more lively.

AS12 saved for me, thank you!

Now, I am looking forward to compare AS12, C12 and C16 with NX7 pro for the king of budget ChiFi to my ears


----------



## chrispl0x

Were green ZS6 discontinued 2017-2018? Lurking around, it seems like there's a ZS6v2 now. If a green is for sale, is it a v1? Need to re-up on my favorite IEM


----------



## dhruvmeena96

dhruvmeena96 said:


> I have KZ ES4, ZSN and ZSN pro
> 
> KZ ES4 reacts to Harman eq curve (auto-eq github) the best.
> 
> ...




 

the black line doesnt follow the proper response...
because the dip in 3kHz cannot be compensated properly, so i modified the response 

i have added the eq file
in txt


----------



## Tweeters

chrispl0x said:


> Were green ZS6 discontinued 2017-2018? Lurking around, it seems like there's a ZS6v2 now. If a green is for sale, is it a v1? Need to re-up on my favorite IEM



I bought a green ZS6 a few months back and it sounded like the treble was toned way down, I don't think all greens are v1 or if there are any v1s for sale now unfortunately


----------



## Slater (Dec 8, 2019)

Tweeters said:


> I bought a green ZS6 a few months back and it sounded like the treble was toned way down, I don't think all greens are v1 or if there are any v1s for sale now unfortunately



*All* the colors have been toned down.

Unfortunately, that’s what all of the complaining got us. KZ quietly retuned the ZS6, and they sucked all of the life out of it in the process. It’s boring and generic sounding, with very little treble presence. The result sounds dark and distant, but I understand why they did it.

I much prefer the ZS6 v1, just like I prefer the ZS5 v1 (which everyone also complained about at the time, but eventually came to regret it after KZ retuned it).


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> *All* the colors have been toned down.
> 
> Unfortunately, that’s what all of the complaining got us. KZ quietly retuned the ZS6, and they sucked all of the life out of it in the process. It’s boring and generic sounding, with very little treble presence. The result sounds dark and distant, but I understand why they did it.
> 
> I much prefer the ZS6 v1, just like I prefer the ZS5 v1 (which everyone also complained about at the time, but eventually came to regret it after KZ retuned it).


Did you investigate whether dampening filters were used or BAs were retuned?


----------



## Slater (Dec 8, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Did you investigate whether dampening filters were used or BAs were retuned?



No filters that I could see.

My guess is they used different BA drivers in place of the 30095. And possibly they tweaked the crossover to dampen the upper treble frequencies.


----------



## jant71

What's up with KZ? They haven't released anything new in ages(for them).


----------



## zachmal

jant71 said:


> What's up with KZ? They haven't released anything new in ages(for them).



they've released the KZ ZSN Pro "Commemorative Edition" or what its name is with the nice looking blue backplate

but that's all "new" going on for them it seems.

Wondering what they're brooding over ...


----------



## chrispl0x

Slater said:


> *All* the colors have been toned down.
> 
> Unfortunately, that’s what all of the complaining got us. KZ quietly retuned the ZS6, and they sucked all of the life out of it in the process. It’s boring and generic sounding, with very little treble presence. The result sounds dark and distant, but I understand why they did it.
> 
> I much prefer the ZS6 v1, just like I prefer the ZS5 v1 (which everyone also complained about at the time, but eventually came to regret it after KZ retuned it).


RIP to the ZS6v1 then :/ The 2-pin connector on my left IEM is loose, so I was hoping to get a back up.  So difficult to find them after-market, tho. 

Time to look into a new IEM 8)


----------



## PhonoPhi

jant71 said:


> What's up with KZ? They haven't released anything new in ages(for them).


Sadly, KZ and CCA (even more sadly) seem to be stuck on the wireless set.
My dream of C18 for Christmas got grinched


----------



## Slater

zachmal said:


> they've released the KZ ZSN Pro "Commemorative Edition" or what its name is with the nice looking blue backplate



Never heard of that one. Got a photo or a link?

The only blue one I know of is the ZS10 Pro "Royal Blue".


----------



## Makahl

Slater said:


> Never heard of that one. Got a photo or a link?
> 
> The only blue one I know of is the ZS10 Pro "Royal Blue".



I think he meant this model: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000379823600.html


----------



## Slater

Makahl said:


> I think he meant this model:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000379823600.html



Wow, I didn't know about that. So KZ came out with a Royal Blue ZS10 Pro and  ZSN Pro. Pretty cool!


----------



## zachmal

Makahl said:


> I think he meant this model:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000379823600.html



yep, that one - looks really gorgeous from those pictures


----------



## Mouseman

Now we just need a royal blue ZSX. Then I'd be all set.


----------



## Caipirina (Dec 9, 2019)

New KZ TWS



More on the KZ-S1, for those too lazy to look them up 

2 versions DD and DD/BA hybrid. Very tasty pricing at 21/24$
4 colors, white / black for DD, gray and green for the hybrids.
I see AAC listed, not AptX.
No volume control
For the first time, the buds are correctly oriented (L/R) in the case !!! 

Looks like so far only the gray model is 'available' (some others let you already order the others, but it is all 'pre-sale' ... so, who knows when that gets released)

I might wait for the green one ... kinda pretty .. not in a rush 



Bit of a bummer, while description calls them 'Sport' headphones, they have NO IPX rating / no waterproof...


----------



## baskingshark

Caipirina said:


> New KZ TWS
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So this was what KZ was up to after radio silence for a few months (compared to the almost monthly release of KZ stuff at the first three quarters of this year).
Seems they are targeting the wireless rabbit hole rather than spamming more hybrids.

I saw some feedback that the previous KZ E10 had some connectivity issues? Hope it's fixed in this iteration.


----------



## Caipirina

Caipirina said:


> New KZ TWS





baskingshark said:


> So this was what KZ was up to after radio silence for a few months (compared to the almost monthly release of KZ stuff at the first three quarters of this year).
> Seems they are targeting the wireless rabbit hole rather than spamming more hybrids.
> 
> I saw some feedback that the previous KZ E10 had some connectivity issues? Hope it's fixed in this iteration.



I got lucky with the E10 and had NO connectivity issue at all, but some early YT ppl had them. I just find the E10 a bit cumbersome to wear, as nice as they sound. 
I just checked and it appears the first TWS of KZ, the T1, is nowhere to be seen anymore ...


----------



## Mouseman

baskingshark said:


> So this was what KZ was up to after radio silence for a few months (compared to the almost monthly release of KZ stuff at the first three quarters of this year).
> Seems they are targeting the wireless rabbit hole rather than spamming more hybrids.
> 
> I saw some feedback that the previous KZ E10 had some connectivity issues? Hope it's fixed in this iteration.


The E10 were terrible -- the worst BT reception I've ever had. Thankfully, Ali has free returns and I sent them back. Their original wireless set (ZSX?) was actually pretty good (except for the funky case). These look very close to those.

These do look nice, but I will wait to hear some impressions. I'm done being a beta tester.


----------



## DynamicEars

Yeah KZ have bad record with their infamous connectivity issue since their first BT adapter. I would like to hear at least ZSX quality on TWS form. Not in hurry though. Looks like they are after TWS market


----------



## Caipirina

Mouseman said:


> The E10 were terrible -- the worst BT reception I've ever had. Thankfully, Ali has free returns and I sent them back. Their original wireless set (ZSX?) was actually pretty good (except for the funky case). These look very close to those.
> 
> These do look nice, but I will wait to hear some impressions. I'm done being a beta tester.



i never had connection issues with my e10, I just find them cumbersome to put on / fiddle for perfect fit ...  the first set (KZ T1) is still pretty great. Only thing there is the weird volume hump (like there’s no volume stop between 30% and 70%), which depending on recording and surrounding noise can be a P in the A


----------



## Slater (Dec 9, 2019)

Yeah, in my experience *all* KZ Bluetooth products are beta products. I learned long ago to wait and see. I’m sure glad I did on the E10, as tempted as I was. And look how they turned out. I’ll be waiting on these as well.

That’s great if KZ wants to go after the TW market, but they will fail unless they can get their Bluetooth connectivity issues figured out.


----------



## jant71 (Dec 9, 2019)

^ Also, in addition right after connection issues we might just want better battery life and volume control. I like the green-blue/aqua-ish color but not 3 hours of battery life.




They need to stop the "it's okay cause it is cheap" thing cause BT has to work and be convenient. Works on the earphones but doesn't translate to wireless earphones. A few sound quirks like metallic treble or something off here and there is okay for a cheap hybrid but TW has got to work and do things others can do like change volume.


----------



## Slater

jant71 said:


> ^ Also, in addition right after connection issues we might just want better battery life and volume control. I like the green-blue/aqua-ish color but not 3 hours of battery life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The sucky thing about TW is it’s doomed to end up in a landfill. Usually after just 1 year of use, the battery doesn’t hold a charge.

Whereas I still have wired headphones that are decades old, IEM that are 5-10 years old, etc. And I can make any of them wireless with TRN BT20 or Radsone ES100 etc.

So even if a company makes a ‘good’ TW, with great sound, reliable connectivity, long battery life, volume control, etc, you’re only gonna get maybe a year out if it before it gets tossed.


----------



## CesarBR (Dec 9, 2019)

I'm not impressed at all with the FR graph


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Not to crap in KZ's oatmeal but I just got TRN T200 TWS, for $30. Not a huge fan of the tuning, but I will say that they are super light, decently comfortable and have never dropped once in over 30 hours on them. They also make it through an entire 8 hour workday on one charge. They are also waterproof, Aptx and the touch controls work very well. Im actually amazed at how well they do work. 

KZ really has a huge hill to climb.


----------



## Mellowship

From time to time I still go for the ATE, first (and best) edition. 

 

Does someone remember the shield case. I still have one, with an ATE inside, sealed.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mellowship said:


> From time to time I still go for the ATE, first (and best) edition.



Mine is not the first edition but I do enjoy my ATE and ATR.  

I enjoy all my older KZs  and have not bought the newer ones, although I have bought new offerings from some other brands.  My newest model KZ is the regular ZSN that I like well enough to have bought two.  I put a balanced cable on one of them.  My most recent KZ purchase was an ED7 (the wooden one) that I managed to track down... love that one too.  Maybe I just love my music!  

Last week the balanced cables arrived that I ordered on 11:11 for a few of my oldies.  I have a couple of DAPs with balanced output that I wanted to take advantage of.    Here they are:

top row: red ZS10 (I also have that cable on my green ZS6 V1),  and carbon ZST

bottom row: grey ZS5 V1, and green ZST







The group shot does not do the ZSR justice so I tried again.. but it still looks better in real life


----------



## raccoon city

Mellowship said:


> From time to time I still go for the ATE, first (and best) edition.





mbwilson111 said:


> Mine is not the first edition but I do enjoy my ATE and ATR.


My first KZ was an ATE-S.
I didn't care for it due to lack of bass, but I'm a total basshead.
I do, however, like my other KZ IEMs.
Those being the ES4 and ZS7.
I'm very glad I didn't give up on KZ after my one bad experience.


----------



## Mellowship

mbwilson111 said:


> Mine is not the first edition but I do enjoy my ATE and ATR.
> 
> I enjoy all my older KZs  and have not bought the newer ones, although I have bought new offerings from some other brands.  My newest model KZ is the regular ZSN that I like well enough to have bought two.  I put a balanced cable on one of them.  My most recent KZ purchase was an ED7 (the wooden one) that I managed to track down... love that one too.  Maybe I just love my music!
> 
> ...





mbwilson111 said:


> Mine is not the first edition but I do enjoy my ATE and ATR.
> 
> I enjoy all my older KZs  and have not bought the newer ones, although I have bought new offerings from some other brands.  My newest model KZ is the regular ZSN that I like well enough to have bought two.  I put a balanced cable on one of them.  My most recent KZ purchase was an ED7 (the wooden one) that I managed to track down... love that one too.  Maybe I just love my music!
> 
> ...



Great collection! 
The ZS5 v1 is still one of my all time favs. I carry one around with me all the time:
 
They are power hungry but they manage to sound great with the KZ USB-c cable. 

Kudos for your reference on Mr Cohen on your signature. I've been listening to his posthumous album lately, it's so good it hurts.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mellowship said:


> Kudos for your reference on Mr Cohen on your signature. I've been listening to his posthumous album lately, it's so good it hurts.



I know.  I can only listen to it when I am sitting quietly alone.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I keep doing occasional browsing to see if there's anything to go for after the ZSX and... nothing seems terribly appealing. I can't tell if I should be relieved or annoyed.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Mellowship said:


> From time to time I still go for the ATE, first (and best) edition.
> 
> 
> 
> Does someone remember the shield case. I still have one, with an ATE inside, sealed.



Very nice! This is the first edition though. Opened but unused.


----------



## Slater (Dec 10, 2019)

Thanks to @Mellowship and @mbwilson111, I'm dialing back the clock myself with this little gem.

ZS5 v1 + new Hibiscus cable



Damn I forgot how clean and musical the ZS5 v1 sounds, especially when amped with a proper low impedance/high current source (not the iPod). These babies deserved a new lease on life with their shiny new cable


----------



## Awsan

Hey everyone this is gonna sound weird but does any one know how does the usual suspects(ZS7,ZS10 pro,ZSX,BLON-03) compare to the ATH-IM70 as I used to own those and want to know what can I expect from these (12.12 discount is not bad found the ZSX for 35$)

Thanks


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Caipirina said:


> Wow, just skimmed through a month of posts ... funny someone managed to find an ED7 ..   missing that one in my stable ...
> 
> still wondering if I should go for the AS12 on black friday, but it feels like a completist buy  .. and different color scheme, yeah! But I already have the AS16 ... I read about the AS12 they have a punchy BA bass?
> Anyone with both, the 12 and 16 recommend to have both?
> ...


If you wanted to describe your impressions about AS12, I would be very interested


----------



## Caipirina

xxAMAROKxx said:


> If you wanted to describe your impressions about AS12, I would be very interested


still in the mail ...


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> The sucky thing about TW is it’s doomed to end up in a landfill. Usually after just 1 year of use, the battery doesn’t hold a charge.



This is sadly very true! 
Actually, I think most of the stuff on AliX is all future trash (with varying shelf lives) ... and most of it is plastic based. 

Read an article a while ago that clothing is especially bad in that regard, there is so much over production to make sure the shops are full with all colors and all sizes, that even after sales and outlet shops, about 80% goes to the landfill!!! 

We are slowly turning this planet into a ball of plastic ... 

At least, until then, we get to listen to music on our audio gear


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Slater said:


> Myself, I would love to see a follow up to the ZS7. The ZS8 ohhh yeaaahhh (said in a Macho Man Randy Savage voice lol)



I'd be happy with a better-fitting ZS7. Perhaps one that also doesn't require EQ to tame peaks or harshness.


----------



## nraymond

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I'd be happy with a better-fitting ZS7. Perhaps one that also doesn't require EQ to tame peaks or harshness.



I rocking out to the ZS7 now with JVC Spiral Dot++ tips, which tame the peaks/harshness well and are really comfy tips. Acoustune AET07 tips work pretty well too, but don't deliver the sub-bass like the Spiral Dot++. (For reference, I'm someone who can't handle the peaks/harshness of the NiceHCK DX7 with any tips I tried.)


----------



## Slater (Dec 11, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I'd be happy with a better-fitting ZS7. Perhaps one that also doesn't require EQ to tame peaks or harshness.



Are you referring to the elevated mid bass? ZS7 is just to right to my ears. No severe peaks (like the 10k ZS6 peaks) or harshness IMO.

Everyone’s ears/preferences are different I guess.

Have you heard the ZSX? I don’t have it, but from people’s description, it may be the ZS7 upgrade you’re looking for. More ergonomic fit, and supposedly has a very safe tuning (with no offensive peaks anywhere or other glaring issues).


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I understand the ZS7 is a ZS6 without the peakiness, I do like the sound. You know, I think I'm just reacting to fit issues. I like the ZS7's signature, but I get ringing in my ears. It's either driver flex, the large Comply tips I put in for seal, or the housing is just too awkward. 

So I wouldn't want to adjust the sound. If there was a smaller, less angular housing, and I could get a seal without using large Comply tips, I would be happy with the ZS7.

I have a ZS-10 Pro, and I wouldn't want to turn the ZS7 into a ZS10P/ZSX.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

nraymond said:


> I rocking out to the ZS7 now with JVC Spiral Dot++ tips, which tame the peaks/harshness well and are really comfy tips. Acoustune AET07 tips work pretty well too, but don't deliver the sub-bass like the Spiral Dot++. (For reference, I'm someone who can't handle the peaks/harshness of the NiceHCK DX7 with any tips I tried.)



I went without Spiral Dots for the longest time because they aren't listed properly on Amazon Canada, and aren't widely on sale on AliExpress. But yesterday I purchased Spiral Dots for the first time, to use with my V90. So I may end up trying them with the ZS7 and see how they fit. The large Comply are just too much, even though they seal well.


----------



## Slater

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I understand the ZS7 is a ZS6 without the peakiness, I do like the sound. You know, I think I'm just reacting to fit issues. I like the ZS7's signature, but I get ringing in my ears. It's either driver flex, the large Comply tips I put in for seal, or the housing is just too awkward.
> 
> So I wouldn't want to adjust the sound. If there was a smaller, less angular housing, and I could get a seal without using large Comply tips, I would be happy with the ZS7.
> 
> I have a ZS-10 Pro, and I wouldn't want to turn the ZS7 into a ZS10P/ZSX.



I see what you mean. I think the ZS10 Pro was intended to be the closest thing to a ‘ZS7 with better fit’.

But since you have both models (as do I), you know that they have similar sound but not exact. Maybe someone with the ZS7, C12, and ZSX can chime in and explain which one is the closest to the ZS7 in a more ergonomic shell.

Personally, I have found that tips and cable make the biggest difference with regards to fit on the ZS7.

For the tips, longer cored tips (like the Azla SednaFit, Spinfits, or FlipTips) move the shell away from the ear enough that I get great fit.

For the cable, ditching the memory wire cable allows me to get a much more comfortable fit.

Obviously, everyone’s ears are different and YMMV. That’s just my experience.


----------



## nraymond

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I went without Spiral Dots for the longest time because they aren't listed properly on Amazon Canada, and aren't widely on sale on AliExpress. But yesterday I purchased Spiral Dots for the first time, to use with my V90. So I may end up trying them with the ZS7 and see how they fit. The large Comply are just too much, even though they seal well.



I have JVC Spiral Dots and while they're good, someone in another thread mentioned the Spiral Dot++ were their favorite and because I'm apparently someone who can't help but buy ear tips when I hear about them, I looked all over and found the best price for them is apparently Amazon Japan (which if you're in the US you can make an account on, separate from a US Amazon account, and have things shipped to the US via Amazon's global shipping service which is very fast and not too pricey, I get things in less than a week via DHL). Anyway, for those curious the Spiral Dot++ are not cheap, they are listed as "JVC EP-FX10 Replacement Earbuds" for whatever reason, currently ¥2,461 before removing Japanese domestic tax and before shipping, or $22.65 at current Yen to USD conversion, or $11.33 per pair (you get two pairs of tips), the most I've ever paid for eartips:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NX64RZJ/

They are funky, almost gel-like in terms of how soft and pliant they are, no other tips I have feel like them. Super-comfy. Performance is different than the regular Spiral Dots... I can never predict how they'll affect an earphone in fact. Slightly different on each one (for instance they made the BQEYZ Spring 1 into bass monsters, totally different from how they are on the ZS7). Who knows, might have something to do with my ear canals and nozzle angle too? I can say they feel great and work well with the ZS7 for me.


----------



## Slater

nraymond said:


> I have JVC Spiral Dots and while they're good, someone in another thread mentioned the Spiral Dot++ were their favorite and because I'm apparently someone who can't help but buy ear tips when I hear about them, I looked all over and found the best price for them is apparently Amazon Japan (which if you're in the US you can make an account on, separate from a US Amazon account, and have things shipped to the US via Amazon's global shipping service which is very fast and not too pricey, I get things in less than a week via DHL). Anyway, for those curious the Spiral Dot++ are not cheap, they are listed as "JVC EP-FX10 Replacement Earbuds" for whatever reason, currently ¥2,461 before removing Japanese domestic tax and before shipping, or $22.65 at current Yen to USD conversion, or $11.33 per pair (you get two pairs of tips), the most I've ever paid for eartips:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NX64RZJ/
> 
> They are funky, almost gel-like in terms of how soft and pliant they are, no other tips I have feel like them. Super-comfy. Performance is different than the regular Spiral Dots... I can never predict how they'll affect an earphone in fact. Slightly different on each one (for instance they made the BQEYZ Spring 1 into bass monsters, totally different from how they are on the ZS7). Who knows, might have something to do with my ear canals and nozzle angle too? I can say they feel great and work well with the ZS7 for me.



I too bought Spiral Dots from Amazon JP, but I got the regular and not the ++ because of the ridiculous price difference with the ++. I just couldn't justify the price difference.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans (Dec 11, 2019)

Slater said:


> I see what you mean. I think the ZS10 Pro was intended to be the closest thing to a ‘ZS7 with better fit’.
> 
> But since you have both models (as do I), you know that they have similar sound but not exact. Maybe someone with the ZS7, C12, and ZSX can chime in and explain which one is the closest to the ZS7 in a more ergonomic shell.
> 
> ...




I think you're right about the fit. It's about configuring the ZS7 to fit you.

Right now, I'm using the stock cable, because it sounds good. But I got a (banned) blue-white 16-core SPC on the way for the ZS7, along with a TRN T2 SPC. And I already have a NICEHCK 16-core SPC that I bought for it.

So I have options for cable fit, I just haven't tried them yet. [Honestly, the stock cable doesn't give me any sonic problems, it just feels thin.]

And Spiral Dots are on the way. My CP145 is currently on the BL-03.

--

Yes, I have the ZS-10 Pro and the ZS7. I'm not really qualified to comment on the differences, but I have read a lot of reviews. In my experience, the ZS7 seems to have a boosted bass and treble at the expense of midrange, a strong V-shape, whereas the ZS-10 Pro (probably ZSX too) has a less pronounced V and is stronger in the midrange.

For me, it sounds as if the ZS7 has really boosted/juiced the high treble and low bass, making them almost cannons. Since the bass and treble (not so much midrange) are very strong, it often creates a sort of harmony between them, which elevates certain albums.

I have some mid-fi like the CNT-1, King Pro, VSonic Ares, but I keep the ZS7 around because it makes certain albums like Arcade Fire's "The Suburbs" come alive in a way that the other IEMs don't. [Daft Punk, too]. More than one reviewer has noted the special juicing present in the ZS7, calling it the 'glorious technicolour' equivalent of sound. More than once I have seen the words 'impact' and 'flair' used to describe the ZS7, and I understand what the reviewers mean. The ZS7 imbues tracks with additional 'colour.'

By contrast, I think the ZS-10P/ZSX are more 'generalist' tunings, designed to appeal to a wide range of listeners and what are assumed to be mainstream tunings. With respectable bass. This works, and I use my ZS-10 Pro for what is now called "classic rock," like Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, I dunno, Michael Jackson.

But for "Indie Rock," and some electronic, I find myself using the ZS7. It might be handling 'millennial' music better. In that archetypal millennial album I mentioned, "The Suburbs," the ZS7 really brings out that quasi-emo sentimentality and pathos of the album, and the soundstage resembles an urban arena, which I guess it's supposed to. Male and female vocals exist in harmony, are properly separated. My other IEMs don't push that kind of sound with the album. Maybe it's a happy coincidence.


----------



## Nimweth

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I went without Spiral Dots for the longest time because they aren't listed properly on Amazon Canada, and aren't widely on sale on AliExpress. But yesterday I purchased Spiral Dots for the first time, to use with my V90. So I may end up trying them with the ZS7 and see how they fit. The large Comply are just too much, even though they seal well.


I use Spiral Dots on the ZS7 and the V90. Wonderful!


----------



## Awsan

Awsan said:


> Hey everyone this is gonna sound weird but does any one know how does the usual suspects(ZS7,ZS10 pro,ZSX,BLON-03) compare to the ATH-IM70 as I used to own those and want to know what can I expect from these (12.12 discount is not bad found the ZSX for 35$)
> 
> Thanks



Sorry for the nagging, but anyone?


----------



## Mouseman

nraymond said:


> I have JVC Spiral Dots and while they're good, someone in another thread mentioned the Spiral Dot++ were their favorite and because I'm apparently someone who can't help but buy ear tips when I hear about them, I looked all over and found the best price for them is apparently Amazon Japan (which if you're in the US you can make an account on, separate from a US Amazon account, and have things shipped to the US via Amazon's global shipping service which is very fast and not too pricey, I get things in less than a week via DHL). Anyway, for those curious the Spiral Dot++ are not cheap, they are listed as "JVC EP-FX10 Replacement Earbuds" for whatever reason, currently ¥2,461 before removing Japanese domestic tax and before shipping, or $22.65 at current Yen to USD conversion, or $11.33 per pair (you get two pairs of tips), the most I've ever paid for eartips:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B07NX64RZJ/
> 
> They are funky, almost gel-like in terms of how soft and pliant they are, no other tips I have feel like them. Super-comfy. Performance is different than the regular Spiral Dots... I can never predict how they'll affect an earphone in fact. Slightly different on each one (for instance they made the BQEYZ Spring 1 into bass monsters, totally different from how they are on the ZS7). Who knows, might have something to do with my ear canals and nozzle angle too? I can say they feel great and work well with the ZS7 for me.


I wish they were more readily available, and yeah -- a whole lot cheaper. I love _regular_ Spiral Dots, and the ++ look very intriguing. But even with my lack of impulse control I've not ordered any. Yet.


----------



## SoundChoice

Awsan said:


> Sorry for the nagging, but anyone?



Friend, Thank you for waiting 6 hours before bumping your own post, but many people are at work or sleeping in different parts of the world. The helpful community will try to help you if possible, but answers are not always immediate.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Awsan said:


> Sorry for the nagging, but anyone?


Doubt anyone here has heard the im70. It's an expensive IEM.


----------



## Awsan

SoundChoice said:


> Friend, Thank you for waiting 6 hours before bumping your own post, but many people are at work or sleeping in different parts of the world. The helpful community will try to help you if possible, but answers are not always immediate.



Aha thanks a lot for the helpful answer .(There is a timed discount that will end within several hours, which made time of the essence I hope you can understand)



BadReligionPunk said:


> Doubt anyone here has heard the im70. It's an expensive IEM.



I see, Its very hard to find a comparison between the two as they are two completely different products with different demographics.

I can only hope someone somewhere did.


----------



## Slater

Awsan said:


> Sorry for the nagging, but anyone?



I assume you read through this thread where they tried to answer your questions, right?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-battle-of-chi-fi-iems.920530/

Lots of good info there


----------



## Awsan

Slater said:


> I assume you read through this thread where they tried to answer your questions, right?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-battle-of-chi-fi-iems.920530/
> 
> Lots of good info there



True a lot of helpful info over there and I am grateful for everyone that helped me, but the nagging made me read around and then people start saying (This is harsh , This has a lot of bass but sounds bad, This wont be better than this) which made me go back to point 0.

Thats why I was asking about the Im70 as I found the ZSX for 35$ today discounted for a couple of hours and I will be shipping it from Malaysia to Yemen and its impossible to resell or return if I didn't like it, So I hope you understand why I might be stubborn and "Noisy".


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## Slater (Dec 11, 2019)

Awsan said:


> True a lot of helpful info over there and I am grateful for everyone that helped me, but the nagging made me read around and then people start saying (This is harsh , This has a lot of bass but sounds bad, This wont be better than this) which made me go back to point 0.



There isn’t a headphone in the known galaxy that everyone universally agrees on.

There will *always* be some people that love a headphone, others that don’t like it. Some people that will say it has too much bass, others that say it doesn’t have enough. Some people will say a headphone has harsh treble, and others that say it’s perfect and what are they talking about...

If you wait around until you find something that everyone loves and not a single person hates, you’ll be waiting around for the rest of your natural life.

They do, however, make headphones like that in the land of unicorns, where there are chocolate rivers and everyone has gumdrop smiles. But unfortunately they’re not available in the real world.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Slater said:


> There isn’t a headphone in the known galaxy that everyone universally agrees on.
> 
> There will *always* be some people that love a headphone, others that don’t like it. Some people that will say it has too much bass, others that say it doesn’t have enough. Some people will say a headphone has harsh treble, and others that say it’s perfect and what are they talking about...
> 
> ...



It's a fool's errand anyway because it's like trying to get an answer to "what's the best movie?" or "what's the best flavor of ice cream?" There literally _can't_ be a single answer because what we want out of a headphone is different from person to person. It depends on where and how you'll be using them, what kind of wear style you prefer, what music you like, the list goes on. The kind of headphone for someone who listens to delicate classical while sitting in a dedicated listening room with no distractions will be wildly different than someone who likes the sealed-in feel of IEMs and jams death metal and hip-hop while on the go.

Like I've listened to top-end electrostats and would _never_ buy a set. I deadass use my ZSX/ES100 pairing more than anything else, and that includes even while at my desk with my HD650 and a tube amp nearby. The only time I don't is when I'm at the gym (Jaybird Vistas for that). I'm that death metal and rap dude and listen on the go, so that pairing is legit the best thing for me. I would absolutely not suggest it to the classical/jazz fan over other options even within the KZ line because the bass would be too much. 

There IS a perfect headphone out there _for you_, but to find that you need to carefully assess your tastes and needs, and then find someone who knows what works for that application.


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> There isn’t a headphone in the known galaxy that everyone universally agrees on.
> 
> There will *always* be some people that love a headphone, others that don’t like it. Some people that will say it has too much bass, others that say it doesn’t have enough. Some people will say a headphone has harsh treble, and others that say it’s perfect and what are they talking about...
> 
> ...



I  am allergic to unicorn fur, hate chocolate, and gumdrops get stuck in my teeth.


----------



## headphonesty

Here's our review of the KZ ZS10 Pro: 

Review: KZ ZS10 PRO - Perhaps Practice Makes Perfect

What we like about it:

Big, deep bass is fun!
Tame highs make them suitable for long listening sessions.
Premium fit and finish look terrific.
Size and shape are very comfortable.
Affordable!
What we don't like about it:

Yet another pin standard rendering aftermarket cable for most other models useless.
Plain and uninspiring bundle of accessories.


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## Mybutthurts (Dec 12, 2019)

Welcome to the ZS10 Pro party.


----------



## Zerohour88

hasn't been involved in KZ stuff much (last tried the ZSX, which I really liked, although I wish the notes had more impact/weight).

quite a pity that the TWS features of E10 didn't work out, since crin got to reviewing it and found it to be pretty good:

https://crinacle.com/2019/12/12/tws...-hifiman-tws600-jaybirds-vista-kz-e10-qcy-t5/


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## beavis87

I'm about to order my first IEM and for the price, it looks like KZ/CCA is where I should look. However, I've never had any IEMs so I'm pretty uninformed about driver differences; balanced armature vs dynamic. Are certain drivers better than others for certain kinds of music or does more BA drivers mean better sound reproduction/quality? Is the AS16 worth 4 times the price over the C10? Or are the C12's the best compromise? How does the AS12 compare to the C12? These ones are the ones I've found and the lowest prices I've found for each without mic:

KZ AS16    8BA    $101.99
KZ AS12    6BA    $72.60
CCA A10    5BA     $44.00
KZ-AS10    5BA    $40.40
CCA C12    5BA +1DD    $34.51
KZ ZS10 pro    4BA +1DD    $35.15
CCA C10    4BA +1DD    $23.25


----------



## kukkurovaca

beavis87 said:


> Are certain drivers better than others for certain kinds of music or does more BA drivers mean better sound reproduction/quality?



Different driver tapes have certain characteristics, but you can't tell just by the kind of driver how a given IEM will sound. As an example, a dynamic driver will often have a more impactful/phsyical feeling, slower bass, while an all-BA setup will often have lighter, faster bass. Neitiher is good or bad in itself, and there are exceptions to both. 

Particularly at low price levels, single driver IEMs can have an advantage in coherency, whereas multi-driver IEMs might sound like there are gaps in the frequency response if they're poorly implemented. But if the tuning and crossover (if any) are good, a multi-driver IEM can still sound very coherent. Single driver IEMs are also less susceptible to issues resulting from a high source impedance. (Not a concern with most modern DAPs/amps, but still.)

tl;dr, just go by reviews of the sound from folks who listen to similar music, and don't worry too much about the driver configuration.


----------



## Sebulr

beavis87 said:


> I'm about to order my first IEM and for the price, it looks like KZ/CCA is where I should look. However, I've never had any IEMs so I'm pretty uninformed about driver differences; balanced armature vs dynamic. Are certain drivers better than others for certain kinds of music or does more BA drivers mean better sound reproduction/quality? Is the AS16 worth 4 times the price over the C10? Or are the C12's the best compromise? How does the AS12 compare to the C12? These ones are the ones I've found and the lowest prices I've found for each without mic:
> 
> KZ AS16    8BA    $101.99
> KZ AS12    6BA    $72.60
> ...


I have 5 pairs of kz earphones, I think. My preferred set are the zs10 pros because they are so comfortable, easily driven. To be honest they are pretty similar to each other, the zs10 pros are a little less harsh than my zsn. And the zsr have the most bass but are slightly sibilant. My normal zs10 have tamer highs than the zs10 pros. More bass aren't always better, but I like the tuning of the zs10 pros. I'm treble sensitive in the 8khz region and I can wear my zs10 pros all day without getting a headache.

The zst are quite good if you are on a tight budget, probably about 90% as good as the zs10 pro, but the cable has wire ear hooks and is tpe coated. The zsn has a better cable and in my opinion is slightly less fatiguing. Can't speak for the others on your list. Kz and cca have upwards of 40 iems.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Zerohour88 said:


> hasn't been involved in KZ stuff much (last tried the ZSX, which I really liked, although I wish the notes had more impact/weight).




This baffles me as the ZSX in my ears right now are ridiculously impactful.


----------



## planetpowers

SomeGuyDude said:


> This baffles me as the ZSX in my ears right now are ridiculously impactful.


Are they noticeably more impactful than the ZS10pros? Or the TRN V90s? 

I love my ZS10pros. They have more impact than almost any other iems I've tried. (except for maybe my old UE Superfi EB ) 

I love the new Chi-fi trend. After owning Westones, Shures and UEs, KZ is kicking their rear ends with sound quality for super low prices.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

beavis87 said:


> I'm about to order my first IEM and for the price, it looks like KZ/CCA is where I should look. However, I've never had any IEMs so I'm pretty uninformed about driver differences; balanced armature vs dynamic. Are certain drivers better than others for certain kinds of music or does more BA drivers mean better sound reproduction/quality? Is the AS16 worth 4 times the price over the C10? Or are the C12's the best compromise? How does the AS12 compare to the C12? These ones are the ones I've found and the lowest prices I've found for each without mic:
> 
> KZ AS16    8BA    $101.99
> KZ AS12    6BA    $72.60
> ...



The basic drivers that are used in an IEM are important, but so is how they are arranged. ZS7, CA4/C10 are using similar or same drivers, for example, but are tuned very differently. Each of those IEMs is better for certain types of listening.

-The C10 is smooth listening, warm, sounds kind of 'analog.' Has decent bass and a fairly large soundstage, even if layering could be better. Voices are crystal clear and elevated. Doesn't have harshness or peaks, but also isn't as 'technically' resolving as some of its cousins. It's fairly 'balanced' in tuning, with a strong midrange, highs and lows aren't boosted that much. Might lack 'impact.' Highly comfortable for most people (not all), and also has decent isolation. Very easy to drive.

-ZS-10 Pro has relatively powerful bass, but also elevates the treble a bit. Typical KZ V-shape, so the mid-range takes a hit. A 'fun' tuning. People use it for rock, hip-hop, metal. Not ideal for classical/jazz. Somewhat 'metallic' timbre. I find the mids/treble to be a bit grainy compared to more expensive IEMs. And even though it is less harsh than predecessors, some treble-sensitive people might notice mild spikes. Easy fit, not large, one of the more comfortable KZs. Easy to drive.

-C12 hasn't arrived yet for me. But it is said to be detailed, going for a more analytical 'reference' type of sound, can resolve classical and jazz fairly well, as well as being used for typical KZ fare such as rock. Maybe less 'impactful' than the ZSX (which should be on your list: it's the successor of the ZS-10 Pro).

So what I'm getting at here, is that you should look at a few reviews and pick a KZ/CCA based on the type of music you are planning to listen to, or the type of 'tuning' you prefer. There are millions of reviews of this equipment, because KZ/CCA are popular and common (and cheap).

You should also note that you can get the C10 for under $20 if you pair it strategically with AliExpress coupons, and that the C12 went as low as $29 during this 12.12 sale, which you can probably still get it for.


----------



## Mouseman

planetpowers said:


> Are they noticeably more impactful than the ZS10pros? Or the TRN V90s?
> 
> I love my ZS10pros. They have more impact than almost any other iems I've tried. (except for maybe my old UE Superfi EB )
> 
> I love the new Chi-fi trend. After owning Westones, Shures and UEs, KZ is kicking their rear ends with sound quality for super low prices.


I think the ZSXs have more impact than either of those. They're a smoother ZS10 Pro with better details and extension, particularly in the low end. While the V90s are really nice, I think they don't reach as low either. But they're in the same ballpark.


----------



## planetpowers

Mouseman said:


> I think the ZSXs have more impact than either of those. They're a smoother ZS10 Pro with better details and extension, particularly in the low end. While the V90s are really nice, I think they don't reach as low either. But they're in the same ballpark.



Thanks for your input. I've been trying to decide between the two. Sounds like the ZSX might be for me.


----------



## DynamicEars

beavis87 said:


> I'm about to order my first IEM and for the price, it looks like KZ/CCA is where I should look. However, I've never had any IEMs so I'm pretty uninformed about driver differences; balanced armature vs dynamic. Are certain drivers better than others for certain kinds of music or does more BA drivers mean better sound reproduction/quality? Is the AS16 worth 4 times the price over the C10? Or are the C12's the best compromise? How does the AS12 compare to the C12? These ones are the ones I've found and the lowest prices I've found for each without mic:
> 
> KZ AS16    8BA    $101.99
> KZ AS12    6BA    $72.60
> ...



what is your preferences? do you like bass impact? or bass light? that will be a question for AS16 and AS12 and A10, if you want bass impact, and less bright, skip those. They are more on bright side, less bass impact, and can be tiring on highs.
ZS10 pro were the fave of the month, few months back until they have a better ZS10 Pro which is ZSX, more smooth trebles without infamous metallic sounding of ZS10 Pro.

C12 is ZSX sibling, they are almost same and the newest from company to date, while ZSX more balance, C12 a bit aggressive on upper mids and lower highs region.

your best bet from KZ/CCA are ZSX or C12, they are better than previous KZ in many aspects (KZ and CCA getting better in every product they release, but just gradually, slow improvement until they reach decent ZSX and C12)




Sebulr said:


> I have 5 pairs of kz earphones, I think. My preferred set are the zs10 pros because they are so comfortable, easily driven. To be honest they are pretty similar to each other, the zs10 pros are a little less harsh than my zsn. And the zsr have the most bass but are slightly sibilant. My normal zs10 have tamer highs than the zs10 pros. More bass aren't always better, but I like the tuning of the zs10 pros. I'm treble sensitive in the 8khz region and I can wear my zs10 pros all day without getting a headache.
> 
> The zst are quite good if you are on a tight budget, probably about 90% as good as the zs10 pro, but the cable has wire ear hooks and is tpe coated. The zsn has a better cable and in my opinion is slightly less fatiguing. Can't speak for the others on your list. Kz and cca have upwards of 40 iems.



yes but ZS10 pro have metallic sound, and they fixed it with ZSX, ZSX is a revision of ZS10 Pro, with no harsh lower treble.



SomeGuyDude said:


> This baffles me as the ZSX in my ears right now are ridiculously impactful.





planetpowers said:


> Are they noticeably more impactful than the ZS10pros? Or the TRN V90s?
> 
> I love my ZS10pros. They have more impact than almost any other iems I've tried. (except for maybe my old UE Superfi EB )
> 
> I love the new Chi-fi trend. After owning Westones, Shures and UEs, KZ is kicking their rear ends with sound quality for super low prices.





Mouseman said:


> I think the ZSXs have more impact than either of those. They're a smoother ZS10 Pro with better details and extension, particularly in the low end. While the V90s are really nice, I think they don't reach as low either. But they're in the same ballpark.



Can you describe more about impact? ZSX isn't thin sounding, they have decent weight on notes, but if youre talking about fun impact, they are more balance and not too impactful on bass . on other side V90 is very impactful on Bass slam and punch, but slightly recessed mids area, more v shaped than ZSX overall. Both are nice IEM for $50 category.


----------



## khighly

Got the ZSX, I can tell they're probably pretty good and spacious, but this is now the second time I've received a faulty pair of IEM's from KZ themselves, the T1's being the other pair. My ZSX is extremely unbalanced in the bass & sub-bass in that the right side seems like it's not even sealed, even though it's firmly sealed in multiple tips. Tried on multiple cables, ran through a polarity test, everything checks out. The vent holes I could see were open with nothing obstructing. The bass vent has its white foam in each side. Running through a frequency test I can experience huge dips. I go back to ZS10 Pro and it's not unbalanced like the ZSX's. Hope this doesn't become a more widespread issue as these are unlistenable.


----------



## Zerohour88

SomeGuyDude said:


> This baffles me as the ZSX in my ears right now are ridiculously impactful.



ah, I worded that a bit misleading, I guess. Not impact in terms of attack/decay, but more on the weight/definition of notes. You could say resolution vs size? I'm comparing to the CA Andromeda, ofc, so not really a fair match, but that says how much I hold it in regards (despite various issues with the ZSX, its cheap)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Zerohour88 said:


> ah, I worded that a bit misleading, I guess. Not impact in terms of attack/decay, but more on the weight/definition of notes. You could say resolution vs size? I'm comparing to the CA Andromeda, ofc, so not really a fair match, but that says how much I hold it in regards (despite various issues with the ZSX, its cheap)



Not having heard the Andromeda, I will 100% agree that complaining about literally anything the ZSX does against a $1500 product is like being upset that your Charger doesn't feel as nice as a Phantom.


----------



## Zerohour88

SomeGuyDude said:


> Not having heard the Andromeda, I will 100% agree that complaining about literally anything the ZSX does against a $1500 product is like being upset that your Charger doesn't feel as nice as a Phantom.



Andro is 1k (and got it for way cheaper than that), but point still stands.

regardless, sound is sound, not like I'm mad that its not as good. Just an observation from a higher echelon of audio.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Zerohour88 said:


> Andro is 1k (and got it for way cheaper than that), but point still stands.
> 
> regardless, sound is sound, not like I'm mad that its not as good. Just an observation from a higher echelon of audio.



What I mean is that... yeah. I mean I definitely call the ZSX as standing up to IEMs in the $300 area (and I mean that for real, it's definitely better than my Mee P1, 1More Quad, and iBasso IT03 and on par with my old Periodic Be), but that's also probably just personal bias on my part and I wouldn't _expect_ them to be in the same area code as something like an Andro. 

If your point is that it "lacks in impact compared to a flagship," then don't just say it "lacks in impact." It's being unfair and a bit disingenuous. It's like buying a camcorder and criticizing it heavily without mentioning that you're comparing it to your RED rig, or talking about the flaws in a video someone uploaded to YouTube because the production isn't as good as The Avengers.


----------



## Podster (Dec 13, 2019)

Just dropped in to say this may very well be the best $99 Chi-Fi (TOTAL) I've owned to date, cable inspiration is totally MB's doings





@khighly , hate to hear about your ZSX. Mine have sounded great across the spectrum since day one and external amping really opens them up.


----------



## Zerohour88

SomeGuyDude said:


> If your point is that it "lacks in impact compared to a flagship," then don't just say it "lacks in impact." It's being unfair and a bit disingenuous. It's like buying a camcorder and criticizing it heavily without mentioning that you're comparing it to your RED rig, or talking about the flaws in a video someone uploaded to YouTube because the production isn't as good as The Avengers.



not really, I really do mean it lacks impact (or definition, whatever people call it, coining terms in audio description is hard when you're not sure of what people are talking about). And its my own personal opinion. Just like how some people are treble-heads or bassheads. You might think its impactful enough and that's good for you. I'm glad it does. For me it doesn't. It is what it is for me.

I do re-iterate that we might not even be talking about the same kind of impact/definition. I'm not just talking about the bass (attack-decay stuff), its how the note carries itself (like how a DD portrays a note vs a BA).


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I see people saying that their KZ ZS-10P/ZSX are 80% as good as their Westones.

That's interesting to me. I know Westones are a big name in IEMs, but I've never tried one. What are Westones known for? Electronic/HipHop/Metal? Using lots of BAs?

I imagine people use them as all-rounders, including for acoustic and classical, so I would think only the very latest KZ/CCAs could approach Westones in timbre and tuning.


----------



## Slater

ShakeThoseCans said:


> What are Westones known for?



Being expensive


----------



## planetpowers

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I see people saying that their KZ ZS-10P/ZSX are 80% as good as their Westones.
> 
> That's interesting to me. I know Westones are a big name in IEMs, but I've never tried one. What are Westones known for? Electronic/HipHop/Metal? Using lots of BAs?
> 
> I imagine people use them as all-rounders, including for acoustic and classical, so I would think only the very latest KZ/CCAs could approach Westones in timbre and tuning.



Here's where I come from. Shure E3c, UE Superfi EB, Westone 3, Westone UMX3, UE Triplefi 10, Westone W2, Tin T2, KZ ZS10pro. This doesn't count many other budgets IEMs in between. I have been an audiofile my entire adult life. I can honestly say that the KZs sound nearly as good as anything I've ever owned. Perfect with a little EQ. I will never buy anything Westone ever again. Maybe just 3 or 4 spare sets of KZs to last me the next decade.


----------



## Zerohour88

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I see people saying that their KZ ZS-10P/ZSX are 80% as good as their Westones.
> 
> That's interesting to me. I know Westones are a big name in IEMs, but I've never tried one. What are Westones known for? Electronic/HipHop/Metal? Using lots of BAs?
> 
> I imagine people use them as all-rounders, including for acoustic and classical, so I would think only the very latest KZ/CCAs could approach Westones in timbre and tuning.



depends on which Westones, I tried a few (the W40 and 60, I think? quite a while back, I remembered them being warm and mushy, rolled off), not really bad but even before the invasion of chi-fi they were too pricey for what they offered.


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 14, 2019)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I see people saying that their KZ ZS-10P/ZSX are 80% as good as their Westones.
> 
> That's interesting to me. I know Westones are a big name in IEMs, but I've never tried one. What are Westones known for? Electronic/HipHop/Metal? Using lots of BAs?
> 
> I imagine people use them as all-rounders, including for acoustic and classical, so I would think only the very latest KZ/CCAs could approach Westones in timbre and tuning.



Westone has been around for a long time, very established western brand. Other than IEMs, they also deal with military aids and hearing aids. For IEMs they have a line for casual music listening (V shaped or near basshead tuning) and a line for stage/studio monitoring (neutralish), and deal mostly with BAs.

Yep that was my claim about KZ ZS10 Pro hitting 80% sound quality of my Westone W30 and Westone 3. Indeed like the others, I've also stopped buying Shures and Westones since the past 2 years after I got my hands on my first CHIFI. I remembered 2 years back, shame on me, I had just purchased a $400 USD Westone W30 for stage monitoring use (cause up to 3 years back, there was no such thing as a sub $50 or even sub $150 multi BA/hybrid) and that was the cheapest multi BA set I could find at my local audio shop. I had to save for months just for it =(. The next day, my colleague at work brought his KZ ZS6 to the office. For a few weeks, he offered me to try out his KZ, but I was a CHIFI snob then, I thought "What's this piece of poorly manufactured Chinese gear that cost a fraction of my Westone? It looks like a pirated Campfire Andromeda LOL" (ok maybe they did copy the shell haha).

One day, after repeated persuations to try the KZ, just to stop the nagging, I decided to try it. I was quite impressed, not too bad technicalities, just a super shrieky treble. Next day I bought my own KZ ZS6 and the rest is history. In fact, a few of my Westones died at the cable insertion area (a few of their older models charged midfi pricing with non detachable cables LOL), whereas all my CHIFI are still alive today (my KZ ZS6 was just recently sold away in working condition a few months back).

As for the question of timbre, the Westones being multi BA sets, their timbre is not gonna be as good as some well tuned DD IEMs. They are still better in timbre than our infamous "steely" timbre of the older KZs and DT6s. Technicals wise, I have no doubt recent CHIFI offerings like the KZ ZSX, TRN V90, TRN BA5, CCA C12 can hit thereabouts the sound quality of a midfi multi driver Westone.
But in the modern day context when the CHIFI gods have blessed us with good multi driver IEMs/hybrids costing as low as $30 USD, and the Westones asking for 10 times the price for marginal improvements, I wouldn't buy another Westone ever again.


----------



## mbwilson111

genck said:


> And then we double space for everything for no reason.



Actually you have brought up a point that is often on my mind.  When people write a big long posts with no paragraph spacing, I am unable to read it... or maybe I am just unwilling.  It can be difficult to keep ones place on the page reading a computer screen as compared to reading a book.  It makes my eyes tired,... especially at night.  Surely I am not the only one?

I try to break my longer posts into extra paragraphs for that reason.  I appreciate when others do the same.  It also makes it easier to find and quote the portion I wish to reply to.   There have been posts that I wanted to read but it just too exhausting.


----------



## Mellowship

Wasn't this a KZ thread? Why are we discussing whose father is the greatest audiophile and whatever nationality has to do with it? 

Just enjoy your appreciation for KZ...


----------



## citral23

Mellowship said:


> Wasn't this a KZ thread? Why are we discussing whose father is the greatest audiophile and whatever nationality has to do with it?
> 
> Just enjoy your appreciation for KZ...



I suppose we're a bit bored since they stopped releasing something every month. But yeah. Sorry.


----------



## Mellowship

citral23 said:


> I suppose we're a bit bored since they stopped releasing something every month. But yeah. Sorry.



Don't need to be sorry. Just do like me and dig for old models and listen to them again! Great fun!


----------



## caprimulgus

For what it’s worth, I’m really enjoying my ZSX. 

My first chi-fi (or anything) in a while, since ZS5 - I’ve been out of the game! As a basshead, I kinda feel like I need to try ZS7...but I just got ZSX and BLON BL03, so I think I’m not missing out on too much. (Right? Right?) 

The more I read, I’m thinking I should have got ZS7 & V90 instead of ZSX & BL03. Or maybe I should just get them all? Ahaha


----------



## TheVortex

caprimulgus said:


> For what it’s worth, I’m really enjoying my ZSX.
> 
> My first chi-fi (or anything) in a while, since ZS5 - I’ve been out of the game! As a basshead, I kinda feel like I need to try ZS7...but I just got ZSX and BLON BL03, so I think I’m not missing out on too much. (Right? Right?)
> 
> The more I read, I’m thinking I should have got ZS7 & V90 instead of ZSX & BL03. Or maybe I should just get them all? Ahaha



Just buy them all and then sell off the ones you don't like. That's what I do : )


----------



## oMalakai

Heya, yesterday I got to try the CCA C12 (Which should be the same pretty much than the ZSX, right?) against my TRN V90 and well...I think I kinda like them a bit more. They seemed a bit bassier, with less recessed mids. At this point I'm gonna end up buying them too. OH WELL


----------



## PhonoPhi

Mellowship said:


> Don't need to be sorry. Just do like me and dig for old models and listen to them again! Great fun!


Great idea!
My KZ appreciation came from AS10. Amazing BA bass, gentle treble, grainy sound of less-dampened BAs, nice resolution. Still love it, especially for string quartets. AS10 survived all the heavy use perfectly (the second one is still unwrapped, the only duplicate in my 30+... collection).

Beautiful anodized aluminum shells of BA10, and I learned to fit it (!)

Old trusty ED9.
Tiny cheerful ZSA.
Different colours/flavours of ZSN, ZSN-pro - ear candies 

My first KZ - ZS10, a bit quirky but with a lot of interesting traits.
Sparkly ZS10-pro - the zenith of good "steely" sound, worked really nice for electronic music to my ears.

Austere AS06 (less BAs is less to me), amazing for solo cello music.
AS12 - did not work for me as is in timbre, but with treble filters removed (great tips of the HeadFi) - my sparkly gem, more cheerful than A10 of CCA.

That brings me to CCA, which I so far collected all 6 (all are really nice) and especially enjoy C16, C12 and CA4 - the best simple design to my tastes, nice periwinkle colour, and simple nice sound of a V (W?)- shaped single BA hybrid.

Indeed, KZ and CCA, I very much miss your new promised IEMs -C18, C20!?


----------



## genck

I've had my ZS 10 Pro for 3 months now and I want to hear this "steely sound", give me a track where I can hear that.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 14, 2019)

genck said:


> I've had my ZS 10 Pro for 3 months now and I want to hear this "steely sound", give me a track where I can hear that.


Any good recording of higher notes of the violin.
I personally like this timbral approximation more than dampening of Knowles (that I've heard in Fiio, surely Knowles are different) or even a  recent generation of KZ BAs in C12 or ZSX. Though the latter are more enjoyable for cymbals and other sparkly sound. A good reason to have few IEMs after all!

P.S. edited for typos


----------



## genck (Dec 14, 2019)

PhonoPhi said:


> Any good recording of higher notes of the violin.
> I personally like this timbral approximation more than dampening of Knowles (that I've heard in Fiio, surely Knowles are different) or even a  recent generation of KZ BAs in C12 or ZSX. Though the latter are more enjoyable for cymbals and other sparkly sound. A good reason to gave few IEMs after all!


such as


----------



## PhonoPhi

One extreme I use - Paganini Caprices (No 5) by Radulovich in 24/96, "as such".


----------



## genck

PhonoPhi said:


> One extreme I use - Paganini Caprices (No 5) by Radulovich in 24/96, "as such".


Great music and I see why you were hesitant to list it, it does sound a bit metallic on my ZS 10 Pro as I just compared it to 5 others. Well, I don't listen to that music but it is very relaxing. This is not an issue with modern metal, hip hop, EDM, imo so the whole "sounds steely" is dumb. If that is your music of choice then by all means, get something better.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 14, 2019)

genck said:


> Great music and I see why you were hesitant to list it, it does sound a bit metallic on my ZS 10 Pro as I just compared it to 5 others. Well, I don't listen to that music but it is very relaxing. This is not an issue with modern metal, hip hop, EDM, imo so the whole "sounds steely" is dumb. If that is your music of choice then by all means, get something better.


I was rather lazy, not reluctant (and also good quality is needed both in a recording and a file).
I enjoy  "steely" and try to be mildly ironic and contrargumentive about it.
I feel for KZ (and feel a bit sad about it) that KZ has to address treblophobia of their customers, like in AS12 for instance.

ZS10pro, I think, is one of the best choices for the genres you've listed.


----------



## genck

PhonoPhi said:


> ZS10pro, I think, is one of the best choices for the genres you've listed.


Thank you for your opinion but I've already found my top 3 choices for the genre I listen (mostly deathcore) - tfz t2, blon 03, semkarch cnt-1


----------



## PhonoPhi

genck said:


> Thank you for your opinion but I've already found my top 3 choices for the genre I listen (mostly deathcore) - tfz t2, blon 03, semkarch cnt-1


You are most cordially welcome.
Enjoy your music!


----------



## Podster

Well I had my first great system at 10 years old (older brothers hand me down from his military days) and at 63 I can honestly say I’m a proud (not superior) Audio-Phool to have attitude towards a word just shows one wants to argue instead of enjoy the music


----------



## SoundChoice

My favorite part of the close-knit, helpful, supportive Head-Fi community is the judgmental personal attacks about audiophiles (or who isn't enough of one) on a message board for audiophiles.


----------



## Podster

SoundChoice said:


> My favorite part of the close-knit, helpful, supportive Head-Fi community is the judgmental personal attacks about audiophiles (or who isn't enough of one) on a message board for audiophiles.



Indeed, IMHO the Word Audiophile is just a step up from Enthusiast which I think/hope we can all agree we are. As it was already mentioned the only real difference is the Phil/Phool is always striving to reproduce that “I’m at the show feeling” which once again IMHO is subjective and different to everyone of us. To argue the term/word is just someone looking for an argument


----------



## BadReligionPunk

I dunno audiophiles annoy the hell out of me. Nevermind how subjective the whole thing is there are people out there who genuinely look down on people who use EQ, listen to Rap, use iPods, ect. I call these people religious audiophiles. They make up dogma and push their made up rules on everyone else. Stuck up, snobby,  corksniffing d-bags the whole lot of them. May they spend eternity strapped to some Beats headphones listening to mumble rap at 128kbs MP3.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

baskingshark said:


> Westone.



Thanks for that very detailed reply to my original question. You know, coming from non-Chi-Fi, all I did was read these reviews of KZs from various websites after hearing about them shortly before 11.11 in 2018. There's this huge zoo of KZ IEMs, so I didn't know what to get [other than the cheap EDR1 and ATE during 2018]. It seemed KZ was offering something for everyone, so I started with the ZS-10 Pro after many positive reviews, even though the ZSX had just launched this summer. 

Now that they're not as steely going forward, that's really good news, and I might pick up a ZSX when it goes down to $30. 

I really appreciate that the lower prices of Chi-Fi allow ordinary people to experiment with a lot of different IEMs and signatures. My first KZs (EDR1+ATE) arrived alongside TRN V80/Tin T2/Banned V2, and now I have quite a stable. I'm using the ZS-10 Pro as a generalist IEM except for classical/jazz, and it's doing fine.


----------



## citral23 (Dec 14, 2019)

While I admire, and encourage musicians, or photographers for example, who put hard work and create, to be proud of themselves, I don't get the pride of "being an audiophile".

What would one think of someone claiming he has an "educated eyesight" and spends a lot of money on binoculars and magnifying glasses, always looking for "more perfection"?

First we'd all disagree on how interesting what he's looking at is, just like we don't agree on what good music is.

Secondly, there is 0 way to tell if that person has a better eyesight than most.

And thirdly, that person is not creating anything worth of value. He can be proud of himself as much as he wants, nobody gives a crap.

He could however try to justify spending a lot on magnifying glasses on the ground that he's an eyesightphile, who can discern slight variations in glass purity, subliming the vision of ass hairs which instantly become incredibly lush, with exquisite texture and gorgeous tonality, but truth be told he's just a snob with annoying precious language that means nothing to other people, except the ones being anxious about having the best magnifying glass, or those who have it already and are looking for confirmation.

Let's get over it. It's a hobby, nothing more, nothing less. Some can find it ridiculous, others awesome, the only thing that matters is to enjoy it.


----------



## beavis87

DynamicEars said:


> what is your preferences? do you like bass impact? or bass light? that will be a question for AS16 and AS12 and A10, if you want bass impact, and less bright, skip those. They are more on bright side, less bass impact, and can be tiring on highs.
> ZS10 pro were the fave of the month, few months back until they have a better ZS10 Pro which is ZSX, more smooth trebles without infamous metallic sounding of ZS10 Pro.
> 
> C12 is ZSX sibling, they are almost same and the newest from company to date, while ZSX more balance, C12 a bit aggressive on upper mids and lower highs region.
> ...



Thanks for the reply, I listen to lots of rock, hip hop, and EDM so the bass impact would be preferred and it looks like the ZSX is the successor as well as community favorite here.


----------



## PhonoPhi

citral23 said:


> While I admire, and encourage musicians, or photographers for example, who put hard work and create, to be proud of themselves, I don't get the pride of "being an audiophile".
> 
> What would one think of someone claiming he has an "educated eyesight" and spends a lot of money on binoculars and magnifying glasses, always looking for "more perfection"?
> 
> ...


With all due respect, it is hard to understand how these ramblings relate to KZ!


----------



## citral23

PhonoPhi said:


> With all due respect, it is hard to understand how these ramblings relate to KZ!



They don't, at all. Welcome to the internet mate.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

My wife thinks Im stupid!


----------



## PhonoPhi

citral23 said:


> They don't, at all. Welcome to the internet mate.


Intermet is a collective phenomenon that some trolls try to hide behind (in between) - every problem has a person name attached to it!


----------



## mbwilson111

citral23 said:


> They don't, at all. Welcome to the internet mate.



Do you ever choose to not reply?  You started it and won't let it go.  It is weird because I remember you saying in a thread that you have better taste than others.  I can't remember if that was better taste in music or gear.  You are the one who appears to feel superior.


----------



## citral23

PhonoPhi said:


> Intermet is a collective phenomenon that some trolls try to hide behind (in between) - every problem has a person name attached to it!



It's just a reflection of real life, there will always be that guy out if topic in real life discussions. When the discussion is boring (like should I get an 8 or 16 cores cable??? Which will make the bass fuller??? Plz answer!!!!) it's a welcome breather. Or not. Who's judge?


----------



## SoundChoice

BadReligionPunk said:


> I dunno audiophiles annoy the hell out of me. Nevermind how subjective the whole thing is there are people out there who genuinely look down on people who use EQ, listen to Rap, use iPods, ect. I call these people religious audiophiles. They make up dogma and push their made up rules on everyone else. Stuck up, snobby,  corksniffing d-bags the whole lot of them. May they spend eternity strapped to some Beats headphones listening to mumble rap at 128kbs MP3.



yes, more of this please, no silly talk about gear or music this is the content I seek from head fi dot com


----------



## citral23 (Dec 14, 2019)

mbwilson111 said:


> Do you ever choose to not reply?  You started it and won't let it go.  It is weird because I remember you saying in a thread that you have better taste than others.  I can't remember if that was better taste in music or gear.  You are the one who appears to feel superior.



Coming from someone replying to everything and anything, online 24/7 this is a bit amusing.

I return the question, you can't just leave me alone can you? Feeling the urge to reply to all my controversial posts, I can understand the fascination but seriously, this is a bit oppressing. There are a lot of threads, a lot of posts, a lot to ignore. I ignore a LOT.

The post about having better taste was sarcasm towards audiophilitis, if someone takes it first degree well vOv

Why don't you go on a crusade against the Hillbilly who's been shitposting the whole day instead?


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

xxAMAROKxx said:


> CCA C12 treble mod
> 
> 
> This mod tames only high frequency 30095 BA. Can be used also on KZ ZSX.
> ...



Hi All,
I have done the *total mode and removed BA tweeters *completely !
It's the best thing I've ever done with headphones. Sound isn't V-shaped anymore, but neutral, with surprisingly great/smooth/laidback extension to the top end. I really do not understand why the heights are so well tuned now, It's an audiophile dream. Bass and mids aren't affected.
That 30095 BA thing is there for nothing (or for trebleheads )




(If anyone is interested in trying this, I'll write a some tips how to remove it)


----------



## TheVortex

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hi All,
> I have done the *total mode and removed BA tweeters *completely !
> It's the best thing I've ever done with headphones. Sound isn't V-shaped anymore, but neutral, with surprisingly great/smooth/laidback extension to the top end. I really do not understand why the heights are so well tuned now, It's an audiophile dream. Bass and mids aren't affected.
> That 30095 BA thing is there for nothing (or for trebleheads )
> ...



I have the CCA C12 which could benefit from the same thing. Easy to do?


----------



## PhonoPhi

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hi All,
> I have done the *total mode and removed BA tweeters *completely !
> It's the best thing I've ever done with headphones. Sound isn't V-shaped anymore, but neutral, with surprisingly great/smooth/laidback extension to the top end. I really do not understand why the heights are so well tuned now, It's an audiophile dream. Bass and mids aren't affected.
> That 30095 BA thing is there for nothing (or for trebleheads )
> ...



Tastes differ a lot, I guess.
Just recently I removed a treble filter of AS12 and so happily listened to all the sparkles, no more striangulated brass, quite similar to C12 and A10 (no filters, I double checked)


----------



## AxelCloris

We've removed some off-topic discussion, and we thank those who have been keeping the thread on-track. We appreciate the assistance.


----------



## DynamicEars

beavis87 said:


> Thanks for the reply, I listen to lots of rock, hip hop, and EDM so the bass impact would be preferred and it looks like the ZSX is the successor as well as community favorite here.



Zsx is the latest offer from KZ and they are better in most section but thay have more balanced presentation.
If you are looking for a bass slam, ZSX will do good but just good enough.
You may want to consider TRN V90 for punchier bass and rattles to your inner head. They are on same level abilities with ZSX and same price too, only different in presentation with more v shaped, slamming bass and more boosted highs than ZSX, but ZSX have more forwarded mids.


----------



## planetpowers

DynamicEars said:


> Zsx is the latest offer from KZ and they are better in most section but thay have more balanced presentation.
> If you are looking for a bass slam, ZSX will do good but just good enough.
> You may want to consider TRN V90 for punchier bass and rattles to your inner head. They are on same level abilities with ZSX and same price too, only different in presentation with more v shaped, slamming bass and more boosted highs than ZSX, but ZSX have more forwarded mids.


I definitely need my inner head rattled, and my older ears have no problem dealing with the highs being boosted. Any fatigue from extended listening? I'm often listening for 8+ hrs a day.


----------



## DynamicEars

planetpowers said:


> I definitely need my inner head rattled, and my older ears have no problem dealing with the highs being boosted. Any fatigue from extended listening? I'm often listening for 8+ hrs a day.



the V90 while boosted in highs they are pretty smooth, not piercing or harsh. Im treble sensitive and still can take them without any problem


----------



## courierdriver

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Thanks for that very detailed reply to my original question. You know, coming from non-Chi-Fi, all I did was read these reviews of KZs from various websites after hearing about them shortly before 11.11 in 2018. There's this huge zoo of KZ IEMs, so I didn't know what to get [other than the cheap EDR1 and ATE during 2018]. It seemed KZ was offering something for everyone, so I started with the ZS-10 Pro after many positive reviews, even though the ZSX had just launched this summer.
> 
> Now that they're not as steely going forward, that's really good news, and I might pick up a ZSX when it goes down to $30.
> 
> I really appreciate that the lower prices of Chi-Fi allow ordinary people to experiment with a lot of different IEMs and signatures. My first KZs (EDR1+ATE) arrived alongside TRN V80/Tin T2/Banned V2, and now I have quite a stable. I'm using the ZS-10 Pro as a generalist IEM except for classical/jazz, and it's doing fine.


You said it and I agree. This less expensive Chi-fi stuff allows people to experiment with different sound signatures without breaking the bank. I absolutely love my ZS10 PRO, and have no regrets buying them. They work great with the types of music I listen to most often, and make me happy. After more than 6 months of owning them, I still can't believe that they sound as good as they do, for the amount of $ I paid.


----------



## planetpowers

courierdriver said:


> You said it and I agree. This less expensive Chi-fi stuff allows people to experiment with different sound signatures without breaking the bank. I absolutely love my ZS10 PRO, and have no regrets buying them. They work great with the types of music I listen to most often, and make me happy. After more than 6 months of owning them, I still can't believe that they sound as good as they do, for the amount of $ I paid.


I agree as well. I really enjoy my ZS10pros and I'm looking forward to trying out the TRN V90s and maybe the ZSX.


----------



## Solar1971

Let’s be honest. 
KZ is the best Chi Fi company currently. 
No, they don’t make the ultimate best IEMs, not even amongst only Chi Fi companies. 
But they make the most good , cheap, nice sounding IEMs. 
I would bet that most people that are “into” Chi Fi, started with KZ’s, and
That’s what got them into this scene to begin with. If not for KZ, many of us wouldn’t 
Even know about all the other good Chi Fi companies. 
Thank you Knowledge Zenith.


----------



## richario

I came to Chi-Fi several years ago, looking for an alternative to the Sennheiser CX series and Jay's A-Jay's 3 headphones, I found the legendary xiaomi piston 2 which hooked me. Stumbling on to KZ almost never happened! 

The journey took in trips through later Xiaomi models, Musicmaker models culminating in the TK13 (TO12), which was my standard at the time. I had a few KZ's like ED3 sport and classic, HDS 1 & 3 which I enjoyed but didn't consider to compete with my (more expensive) Toneking's. 

The headphone that truly ignited my passion for KZ was the ZS5v1, I was floored by the jump in sound quality and value. 

Current favourites would be AS10 > ZS7 > ZS6 > ZS5v1 > As12 > ZS10. The AS10 with Trn BT20s is now by far my favourite, I love the (for KZ) forward mids, the bass is a great balance between speed and weight which works perfectly for my ears. 

Thanks to those members of the thread who helped inform those buying decisions with their insightful reviews and robust discussion.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Solar1971 said:


> Let’s be honest.
> KZ is the best Chi Fi company currently.
> No, they don’t make the ultimate best IEMs, not even amongst only Chi Fi companies.
> But they make the most good , cheap, nice sounding IEMs.
> ...



I was a straight up Japanophile my whole life. JVC, Audio Technica, Sony, ect. Got hooked into the KZ ZST hype. Was blown away with what I got for $20. Then Ed8, Ed9 Edr1, Ect. Then it moved to other Chifi manufacturers. Now my life in hitting rock bottom and I see no way out. 

KZ is a gateway drug basically.


----------



## Solar1971

BadReligionPunk said:


> I was a straight up Japanophile my whole life. JVC, Audio Technica, Sony, ect. Got hooked into the KZ ZST hype. Was blown away with what I got for $20. Then Ed8, Ed9 Edr1, Ect. Then it moved to other Chifi manufacturers. Now my life in hitting rock bottom and I see no way out.
> 
> KZ is a gateway drug basically.



lololol. Oh my god so true. Gateway drug is so accurate. But now, I need more drugs!!!  Hahaha


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Solar1971 said:


> lololol. Oh my god so true. Gateway drug is so accurate. But now, I need more drugs!!!  Hahaha


Yup. I have already had multiple interventions and I get that disappointed look from everyone in my family. In fact I just stopped hanging out with everyone because of it. Those people are crazy. I don't need them. I don't have a problem. They do.


----------



## genck

BadReligionPunk said:


> Yup. I have already had multiple interventions and I get that disappointed look from everyone in my family. In fact I just stopped hanging out with everyone because of it. Those people are crazy. I don't need them. I don't have a problem. They do.


it's okay, inanimate objects can be your friend too. they are the best type, easy to change when you don't like and only make noise when you want them to.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

genck said:


> it's okay, inanimate objects can be your friend too. they are the best type, easy to change when you don't like and only make noise when you want them to.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

TheVortex said:


> I have the CCA C12 which could benefit from the same thing. Easy to do?


It's not hard to remove these BAs, I've only need some patience....
- BA isn't glued well, I've only used toothpick to unstick it.
- Now how to unplug wires ....  combination of needle and twisting/pushing/pulling with that BA works well for me. Wires will unconnect after a while and stay there unpluged.


----------



## darmanastartes (Dec 16, 2019)

oMalakai said:


> Heya, yesterday I got to try the CCA C12 (Which should be the same pretty much than the ZSX, right?) against my TRN V90 and well...I think I kinda like them a bit more. They seemed a bit bassier, with less recessed mids. At this point I'm gonna end up buying them too. OH WELL


The C12 and the ZSX actually have different tunings, unlike the A10/TP10/KB10 business.


----------



## PhonoPhi

darmanastartes said:


> The C12 and the ZSX actually have different tunings, unlike the AS16/C16 and A10/TP10/KB10 business.


Could you please elaborate.
While it is agreed that A10/TP10/KB10 (and the latter two are not KZ/CCA) are agreed to be essentially identical, C16 and AS16 have different drivers to start with, so I would expect the difference be more than for ZSX/C12 (from what I read).
I only have  C12 and C16 and enjoy them both (did not want to afford ZSX and AS16, but now more and more tempted to try the latter).


----------



## Podster

BadReligionPunk said:


> I dunno audiophiles annoy the hell out of me. Never mind how subjective the whole thing is there are people out there who genuinely look down on people who use EQ, listen to Rap, use iPods, ect. I call these people religious audiophiles. They make up dogma and push their made up rules on everyone else. Stuck up, snobby,  corksniffing d-bags the whole lot of them. May they spend eternity strapped to some Beats headphones listening to mumble rap at 128kbs MP3.



Heck, I just call them Putz's (However I've always loved the word Corksniffer). For anyone to think they are better than anyone simply because of what they own, think of what they own as being much better missed the boat a long time ago and they are the ones who never reach anywhere but right back to that stupid logic in the first place To be awesome is to never say or act as if you are Enough about lost souls let's see how I've culled my KZ collection over the years of either gifting or just giving away some. These are my ala Lynard Skynard "Street Survivors" (why yes that is a few surviving Old Skoolers in the upper left case) Let's raise a glass and toast KZ for allowing every man (OK you ladies too) the opportunity to have killer sound for a fraction of the name brands


----------



## teus

I've had the ZS10 pro for a while now. Glad KZ finally got a lot of things right: smooth edges, good fit, grooves on the nozzles, perhaps a better design of the 2-pin connector. I bought Spinfit tips and don't have to be afraid of losing them anymore.


----------



## Podster

I gave my ZS10 Pro away @teus but I've regretted that move and have a replacement coming however I do wish KZ had made it with the satin finish face plate ala ZSX

So the only way I could justify this killer $44 cable on my ZS4's was to buy a second pair to have a red right and black left, next I'll probably be getting a multi belted jacket to wear in the padded room


----------



## darmanastartes

PhonoPhi said:


> Could you please elaborate.
> While it is agreed that A10/TP10/KB10 (and the latter two are not KZ/CCA) are agreed to be essentially identical, C16 and AS16 have different drivers to start with, so I would expect the difference be more than for ZSX/C12 (from what I read).
> I only have  C12 and C16 and enjoy them both (did not want to afford ZSX and AS16, but now more and more tempted to try the latter).


You're right, I thought the AS16 and the C16 also had the same tuning.


----------



## teus

Podster said:


> I gave my ZS10 Pro away @teus but I've regretted that move and have a replacement coming however I do wish KZ had made it with the satin finish face plate ala ZSX


yeah, I'm not a fan either of the glossy chrome finish. the purple plastic on mine looks amazing, however. 
I'm using them with a FiiO BTR1K. nice pairing, outstanding value. I'm not compelled to upgrade either of them. we'll see in a few years, when technology has advanced again, and how they quickly they wear.


----------



## 1clearhead

Okay, so I had time to listen to my ZSX last night and finally swapped the original cables for the silver KZ cables that I bought as extras, and never in my wildest dreams did I think the slight harshness would disappear, overall clarity and soundstage would expand, and details were going to sound so precise! ...I didn't realize how much I was missing!!!


----------



## Awsan

1clearhead said:


> Okay, so I had time to listen to my ZSX last night and finally swapped the original cables for the silver KZ cables that I bought as extras, and never in my wildest dreams did I think the slight harshness would disappear, overall clarity and soundstage would expand, and details were going to sound so precise! ...I didn't realize how much I was missing!!!



From 1 to placebo how would your rate the upgrade


----------



## nxnje

Awsan said:


> From 1 to placebo how would your rate the upgrade


LOL

I think 18,65*sqrt(254).


----------



## Podster

Awsan said:


> From 1 to placebo how would your rate the upgrade



Seriously, 25 post and this is the way you want to start your journey here Not sure but that "w" and "s" may be reversed Curious if you rate your post from 1 to placebo where it falls? Welcome aboard and hold on tight


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Dec 17, 2019)

Literally the only cable difference you could ever get with these things is if you go to balanced, and even that's not guaranteed. I'm seriously laughing at people dropping coin on various cables like it's gonna change the sound to any appreciable degree. The tips will have a gigantic difference by comparison. And yes, I did buy a balanced cable, but mostly because I was upgrading anyway since I hate the stock cable and felt like giving it a shot since I have an ES100. 

But I gotta give this site credit, I assumed the snake oil purchases were the purview of the Summit-Fi shoppers, but here we are.


----------



## Sebulr

I have recently bought a kz aptx type c cable for my zs10 Pro and have cut out the ear guides and wire as it is irritating to me. I did this with my previous cable on the zs 10 normal. But I find they have ab approx 3db hiss on the zs10 Pro, and it irritates me.

Long story short, the zs10 Pro is a little too sensitive for the cable so I slapped it on my zsn, and it's fine. Also the other one is fine on the old zs10.


----------



## Podster

SomeGuyDude said:


> Literally the only cable difference you could ever get with these things is if you go to balanced, and even that's not guaranteed. I'm seriously laughing at people dropping coin on various cables like it's gonna change the sound to any appreciable degree. The tips will have a gigantic difference by comparison. And yes, I did buy a balanced cable, but mostly because I was upgrading anyway since I hate the stock cable and felt like giving it a shot since I have an ES100.
> 
> But I gotta give this site credit, I assumed the snake oil purchases were the purview of the Summit-Fi shoppers, but here we are.



Laugh all you want, my thoughts are these good looking iem's deserve a sweet cable regardless of any sonic difference at all. Snake Oil, accessorizing it's all good for me and if I can afford it you just laugh at me all you want, I've never been one to taught how much more awesome a cable sounds from an original but I've for sure said what a POS one might have been on build quality. I have a balanced ES100 with balanced cables all over the place and I'm not so sure even balanced sounds all that much better but it is a more efficient signal path. I see you bought a balanced cable for use with your ES100 so what's your thoughts on balanced vs. single ended? Here's laughing back at ya SGD Come to think of it I applaud you for being so smart with your money Just for you here's another shot of my wasted $44 Respectfully yours Pod


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Man. You are being _ridiculously _defensive and upset about this. Who are you trying to convince, me or you? Yikes.


----------



## Solar1971

Podster said:


> I gave my ZS10 Pro away @teus but I've regretted that move and have a replacement coming however I do wish KZ had made it with the satin finish face plate ala ZSX
> 
> So the only way I could justify this killer $44 cable on my ZS4's was to buy a second pair to have a red right and black left, next I'll probably be getting a multi belted jacket to wear in the padded room



Damn that's a classy / sexy cable. It's the type of cable Hollywood stars choke themselves with while masturbating.
Shweeeeet!!!! I want one


----------



## Podster (Dec 17, 2019)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Man. You are being _ridiculously _defensive and upset about this. Who are you trying to convince, me or you? Yikes.



Hey now ridiculous is as ridiculous does, I mean you basically just said anyone buying a cable for sound upgrade was ridiculous right? I'm not defensive nor am I mad at you as you are entitled to your opinion of anything but laughing at us is just a little on the rude side don't you think? As for the convincing part I'm just stating how I feel about it like you have with upgrade cables in general. Just saying it as I see it, that was like an attack for those who've spent their hard earned cash on something they like whether you do or not so by all means laugh

@Solar1971 if you are serious help yourself https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32970249542.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3d884c4d2086eU and if you are just being sarcastic I hope you never choke on anything!


----------



## citral23




----------



## Podster

citral23 said:


>



Ah Citral I love french humor however it's still missing a little..........................................


----------



## Awsan

Podster said:


> Seriously, 25 post and this is the way you want to start your journey here Not sure but that "w" and "s" may be reversed Curious if you rate your post from 1 to placebo where it falls? Welcome aboard and hold on tight



Damn, I see that my comment started a domino effect , it was harmless joke and I didn't mean for it to sound aggressive or "making fun" regarding his post 

Btw just for the record I bought "2 years ago" a 40$ upgrade cable from China for my ath-im70 and it helped the sound quality by a good margin actually.


----------



## Podster

Awsan said:


> Damn, I see that my comment started a domino effect , it was harmless joke and I didn't mean for it to sound aggressive or "making fun" regarding his post
> 
> Btw just for the record I bought "2 years ago" a 40$ upgrade cable from China for my ath-im70 and it helped the sound quality by a good margin actually.



Ah, no harm no foul although I might have been a little rough on SGD but it was not to be mean just my take on what I read. He knows I'm pretty cool/OK with pretty much everything, I'd be willing to bet most perceived sound changes are at least 50% placebo too when it comes to upgrade cables


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

*ZS-10 Pro impressions
*
I tested the ZS-10 Pro for a number of hours this week, and I have to say that it is a success.






I bought the ZS-10 Pro in the summer, knowing full well that the ZSX was already out. I had read good reviews of the ZS10P, whereas the ZSX was still an unknown quantity. This conservative approach is probably not the wisest in Chi-Fi, but I also read that the ZS10P had good fit, which is important to me in a KZ IEM.

The ZS10P succeeds as both a mobile IEM on a weak device like an iPod Touch 4, or with a PC DAC/AMP. There is a difference in authority between the two. I find that on the iPod, the ZS10P lacks juice and slam with hip-hop, metal, trance, and D&B. Guitar strings are notably weaker. However, it is okay overall with classic rock and pop, and beats and electronic noises are still strong.

I was comparing the ZS10P and V90 back-and-forth heavily on Friday, to the point where I started losing track of which was which. [They are within range of each other]. It's a real shootout with hip-hop, although the V90 trounces it in D&B. I think that the ZS10P is a more 'generalist' tuning, in the sense that I would use it for a wider range of music than the V90. However, the V90 digs deeper in bass.

Compared to the V90 and C10, there are some spikes or peaks in the treble that I am sensitive to, but it is not extreme. What is more irritating is the steely KZ sound, which is still present to a degree in this model. I don't use it for anything acoustic, or requiring accurate representations of classical and jazz instruments. And you can forget a lot of prog. rock. That being said, it reproduces pop and classic rock with some pizazz, and sounded more 'alive' in those categories than the V90.

The ZS10P is going to become one of my mobile IEMs. It has weak sound isolation, despite the good fit, but it is strong in registers that drown out background noise. I can hear the music fairly clearly even at 25-33% volume on the iPod Touch. And it is very hassle-free. I did not even need to change tips or cable. In terms of build quality, the shells are really nice, and the shiny metal is attractive. However, it scratches easily, unlike the metal faceplace of the C10.

With light amping on a PC, the ZS10P delivers authoritative slam and punch approaching the V90, but not quite there. I find that the V90 is tuned more 'neutrally,' or has a more 'mature' tuning, which isn't necessarily a good thing on a $30 IEM that lacks some detail, in my opinion. The V-shape plays to the KZ's strengths here, creating a more fun and exciting sound that causes you to overlook the grain in the mid-range and upper register. Despite the recessed midrange, vocals are fairly strong and coherent.

I'm curious about how the ZSX stacks up. It is said to be tuned in a less-extreme fashion, with a shallower 'V.' If the ZSX removes the 'steeliness,' then a more mature tuning would work. Turning up the volume would not be as punishing, in a generalist IEM like that. So I guess that's the next stop, but I'm happy with what the ZS10P can do for now.


----------



## 1clearhead

Awsan said:


> From 1 to placebo how would your rate the upgrade


LOL! ...In my personal experience, placebo doesn't play a role. But, knowing that (again, from personal experience) ear tips and different materials in the cabling can change the tuning just north or south of what one might expect, I can vouch that the ZSX does sound better now, then with the original cables. Though, comfort may still be in issue, they can definitely hang just as nice as the BLON BL03, IMHO.


----------



## baskingshark

ShakeThoseCans said:


> *ZS-10 Pro impressions
> *
> I tested the ZS-10 Pro for a number of hours this week, and I have to say that it is a success.
> 
> ...



Nice impressions. Agree with your views!

BTW what tips are you using with the ZS10 Pro? I find it's isolation is quite good with spinfits, gives me about 15 dB isolation. Good for transit and stage monitoring IMHO at the price.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Good question, baskingshark.

I had originally purchased some CP145 M or L tips intended for use with the ZS-10 Pro, along with a KZ gold "upgrade" cable. I ended up using the CP145 (my only pair, back then) on the Blon BL-03. It was an unplanned purchase, and usurped the CP145 tips. [And it needed it more.]

So the BLON got the tips because of bad fit, and I ended up keeping the ZS-10 Pro tips. Truth is, they fit pretty okay. I don't have problems with KZ tips, except the Starlines on the ZS-7, which I found go better on other IEMs.

And the cable is still stock, because why not? It's a tangle cable, but it requires so little power.

[I might try Starlines on it, when the new batch arrives.]


----------



## youngarthur

I have had expensive/cheap cables over the years, for both head/ear phones, and HiFi Speakers, and never perceived a difference, BUT, people with better ears than me well might. What people spend their money on is their affair. I used to spend my money on Parachuting, so that makes me mad/stupid anyway.


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## Fuyaa (Dec 18, 2019)

Hello Guys!

So basically, I was blown away by the Quality of KZ for its price.
still remember just like 3-4 years ago, I bought an earphone that cost me 100 USD but has almost the same quality with my KZ ZSN Pro.

So right know, I am in a search for over the ear headphone. Because my Sennheiser HD600 left driver broke.
Is there a brand like KZ for Over the Ear Headphone? Like Awesome quality with a very affordable price. ( oh ya, I mainly listen to Classical Music)

Thank you!!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Fuyaa said:


> Hello Guys!
> 
> So basically, I was blown away by the Quality of KZ for its price.
> still remember just like 3-4 years ago, I bought an earphone that cost me 100 USD but has almost the same quality with my KZ ZSN Pro.
> ...


Blon B8 have some good reviews. I myself bought the Blon B20 since I wanted a planar and open-back.


----------



## Podster

Fuyaa said:


> Hello Guys!
> 
> So basically, I was blown away by the Quality of KZ for its price.
> still remember just like 3-4 years ago, I bought an earphone that cost me 100 USD but has almost the same quality with my KZ ZSN Pro.
> ...



My vote, suggestion would be either the AKG 553 MKII ($99.00) or even a Superlux 668B (The superlux won't have your 600's build quality but for $40 they are AMAZING!)


----------



## Mellowship

Fuyaa said:


> Hello Guys!
> 
> So basically, I was blown away by the Quality of KZ for its price.
> still remember just like 3-4 years ago, I bought an earphone that cost me 100 USD but has almost the same quality with my KZ ZSN Pro.
> ...


Just have your HD600 fixed by an authorized technician! They are classics, they deserve to be maintained!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I've heard good things about the DZAT DT-10.


----------



## Fuyaa

Podster said:


> My vote, suggestion would be either the AKG 553 MKII ($99.00) or even a Superlux 668B (The superlux won't have your 600's build quality but for $40 they are AMAZING!)





RikudouGoku said:


> Blon B8 have some good reviews. I myself bought the Blon B20 since I wanted a planar and open-back.



Thanks for the suggestion!! They do have very great reviews, I will put it on my list.
How about Philips SHP9500? It also has great reviews and 66 USD Price in Amazon.

Downside is that the price of it here in my country is around 78~ rather than 66 USD.
How does it compare to the headphones you mentioned?

And maybe Can you maybe suggest few more challangers to Philips SHP9500?


----------



## Podster

Yeah, I forgot about the 9500’s but they are also a bang for your buck headphone. Seems like everyone really liked a budget AT, something like 50x 50 something, maybe someone else can chime in that remembers.


----------



## SupremusDoofus

Podster said:


> Yeah, I forgot about the 9500’s but they are also a bang for your buck headphone. Seems like everyone really liked a budget AT, something like 50x 50 something, maybe someone else can chime in that remembers.


ath m50x


----------



## Mellowship

Podster said:


> Yeah, I forgot about the 9500’s but they are also a bang for your buck headphone. Seems like everyone really liked a budget AT, something like 50x 50 something, maybe someone else can chime in that remembers.



Eheheh!  ( @Podster brilliantly acting as if someone in this hobby didn't know a thing about the AudioTechnica ATH-M50/M50x ) 

The M50 (old variant with attached cable, I own one with which I modded with a 3.5mm panel plug), and the M50x (newer version), are one of the most recognised and recognisable headphones in the industry. The sound is somewhat "in your face", with very energetic treble (sometimes sibilant), but with an overall good linearity and presentation. Very narrow stage but good imaging. Very dependent on pad swap, but usually for the worst. With the wrong pads, it will drastically lose bass extension and punch below 500 Hz. People love it for its revealing nature and built quality. I myself like it for its isolation, but had to do some comfort mods regarding the headband which is too big for my small bald head. It has nothing to do, though, with the more laid-back nature of Senns HD600 or the SHP9500. 
To be on-topic, the M50 sound more like if the AS10 had a baby with ZS5v2, i.e., good punch with good fit, but tip-dependent, good imaging, revealing mids (but not the most distinct ones), and piercing highs depending on the music.


----------



## Nimweth

I would recommend the TRN BA5. It is an all-BA design with a good bass response and a largely neutral character. It is worn over the ear and is very good for classical music.


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 20, 2019)

Nimweth said:


> I would recommend the TRN BA5. It is an all-BA design with a good bass response and a largely neutral character. It is worn over the ear and is very good for classical music.



I read a few reports in the TRN thread that moisture builds up in the nozzle and causes intermittent loss of sound. U experienced that?

And how's the timbre of the TRN BA5? For classical music, I would like something with legit timbre for acoustic instruments. At the budget CHIFI range, I find most multi BA/hybrids are artificial in timbre, though it seems KZ ZSX has made improvements in this area compared to the ZS10 Pro.


----------



## Podster

Mellowship said:


> Eheheh!  ( @Podster brilliantly acting as if someone in this hobby didn't know a thing about the AudioTechnica ATH-M50/M50x )
> 
> The M50 (old variant with attached cable, I own one with which I modded with a 3.5mm panel plug), and the M50x (newer version), are one of the most recognised and recognisable headphones in the industry. The sound is somewhat "in your face", with very energetic treble (sometimes sibilant), but with an overall good linearity and presentation. Very narrow stage but good imaging. Very dependent on pad swap, but usually for the worst. With the wrong pads, it will drastically lose bass extension and punch below 500 Hz. People love it for its revealing nature and built quality. I myself like it for its isolation, but had to do some comfort mods regarding the headband which is too big for my small bald head. It has nothing to do, though, with the more laid-back nature of Senns HD600 or the SHP9500.
> To be on-topic, the M50 sound more like if the AS10 had a baby with ZS5v2, i.e., good punch with good fit, but tip-dependent, good imaging, revealing mids (but not the most distinct ones), and piercing highs depending on the music.



LOL. I’d like to say you busted me out here my mellow friend but Pod’s never had nor heard the M50’s and why I did not have that model well embedded in my bald noggin’  

However I do own and love my ATH900’s, seems by your description the 50’s deliver a much more lively sound than my 900’s. I do appreciate that explanation of their sound characteristics though


----------



## DynamicEars (Dec 20, 2019)

baskingshark said:


> I read a few reports in the TRN thread that moisture builds up in the nozzle and causes intermittent loss of sound. U experienced that?
> 
> And how's the timbre of the TRN BA5? For classical music, I would like something with legit timbre for acoustic instruments. At the budget CHIFI range, I find most multi BA/hybrids are artificial in timbre, though it seems KZ ZSX has made improvements in this area compared to the ZS10 Pro.



Timbre ZSX > BA5 >>>>>>>>>> ZS10 Pro
They are not the most natural, but for budget BA, they are surprisingly good enough, pass my picky requirement at least while ZS10 Pro didnt make it

But BA5 smoother than ZSX on the edges


----------



## loomisjohnson

baskingshark said:


> I read a few reports in the TRN thread that moisture builds up in the nozzle and causes intermittent loss of sound. U experienced that?
> 
> And how's the timbre of the TRN BA5? For classical music, I would like something with legit timbre for acoustic instruments. At the budget CHIFI range, I find most multi BA/hybrids are artificial in timbre, though it seems KZ ZSX has made improvements in this area compared to the ZS10 Pro.


i like the ba5 more than the kzs, altho its high end can sound a little metallic, which i attribute to the quality of the drivers used. it is nonetheless vg for the price--you'll spend a lot more for incremental improvement overall.


----------



## Podster

baskingshark said:


> I read a few reports in the TRN thread that moisture builds up in the nozzle and causes intermittent loss of sound. U experienced that?
> 
> And how's the timbre of the TRN BA5? For classical music, I would like something with legit timbre for acoustic instruments. At the budget CHIFI range, I find most multi BA/hybrids are artificial in timbre, though it seems KZ ZSX has made improvements in this area compared to the ZS10 Pro.



Curious if you’ve heard/listened to the BA10’s? Probably one of the best all BA Chi-Fi’s I’ve heard and I own and prefer them to my HQ12’s.


----------



## baskingshark

Podster said:


> Curious if you’ve heard/listened to the BA10’s? Probably one of the best all BA Chi-Fi’s I’ve heard and I own and prefer them to my HQ12’s.



The KZ BA10 has been on my wishlist for a long time, if it can beat the HQ12s, that's saying a lot!
But many folks have said the BA10 fit is atrocious due to the large squarish shell, so I've never got down to getting it due to this, a pity though if it sounds good.


----------



## blantonator

Any one have their KZ go bad?  I have two pairs that sounded great, but after a couple weeks they seem to lost the mid-range and the airy treble.  Hard to describe, but they sound very flat compared to new.  These are the ZSX, which I love.


----------



## Podster (Dec 20, 2019)

My solution was to put half a nozzle core off a tip to get a little more tip extension and it works perfect. The extra tip length let’s the shell sit farther out and at least for my ears it does the trick. I’ve actually done this on my HQ12’s & my DM6’s


----------



## 1clearhead

blantonator said:


> Any one have their KZ go bad?  I have two pairs that sounded great, but after a couple weeks they seem to lost the mid-range and the airy treble.  Hard to describe, but they sound very flat compared to new.  These are the ZSX, which I love.


Have you tried a KZ silver-plated cable? It made a giant-leap of a difference for me! I didn't know until recently that I can bring out the midrange and airy treble and do away with the edgy harshness with silver-plated cables.


----------



## tmb821

Just stepped up to the zs10-pro from the zsn. I have to say, I really don’t notice “that” much of a difference? Maybe because the zsn have a bunch of hours on them and the zs10p are brand new? It seems to me that the sound is slightly more refined with the zs10p, not that I was expecting a mind blowing difference. Just curious if I was expecting too much? Not that I’m unhappy with the zs10p.


----------



## Slater

tmb821 said:


> Just stepped up to the zs10-pro from the zsn. I have to say, I really don’t notice “that” much of a difference? Maybe because the zsn have a bunch of hours on them and the zs10p are brand new? It seems to me that the sound is slightly more refined with the zs10p, not that I was expecting a mind blowing difference. Just curious if I was expecting too much? Not that I’m unhappy with the zs10p.



Keep in mind that adding a few more BA drivers isn’t going to make a night and day difference. The differences are generally subtle, especially with KZs. They are all about small, incremental improvements. That’s why I usually skip a number of models, so when I do get another KZ the difference is more noticeable.

For example, you may have noticed a bigger difference going from the ZSN to the ZSX because it’s a few models refined.

There are some people who think earphones are like computer CPUs, where more drivers are like more CPU cores (and therefore better). It doesn’t really work that way.


----------



## tmb821

Slater said:


> Keep in mind that adding a few more BA drivers isn’t going to make a night and day difference. The differences are generally subtle, especially with KZs. They are all about small, incremental improvements. That’s why I usually skip a number of models, so when I do get another KZ the difference is more noticeable.
> 
> For example, you may have noticed a bigger difference going from the ZSN to the ZSX because it’s a few models refined.
> 
> There are some people who think earphones are like computer CPUs, where more drivers are like more CPU cores (and therefore better). It doesn’t really work that way.



makes sense. I’m happy with the upgrade. The more I listen, the more my brain burns in and I’m starting to notice a little more clarity and detail. The biggest winner in this is my son, I gave him the zsn, big upgrade from the cheapo 1 dd iem that I gave him when I got the zsn.


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Keep in mind that adding a few more BA drivers isn’t going to make a night and day difference. The differences are generally subtle, especially with KZs. They are all about small, incremental improvements. That’s why I usually skip a number of models, so when I do get another KZ the difference is more noticeable.
> 
> For example, you may have noticed a bigger difference going from the ZSN to the ZSX because it’s a few models refined.
> 
> There are some people who think earphones are like computer CPUs, where more drivers are like more CPU cores (and therefore better). It doesn’t really work that way.



couldn't agree more, with more BAs usually differences more heard on separation section, they are tuned similarly with some refinement and slight improvement over the models like @Slater said.
But the other way around, after you get used into your ZS10 Pro and someday you back to your ZSN, you will notice the differences more, and from there, there is no way back


----------



## 40lb

I know many have talked about the connection issue, for now I haven't had any issues with it. However if I was to grab it with my fingers while it is in my ear the audio does cut out.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I don't intend to make a habit of posting reviews from other sites, but someone posted a very detailed review of the ZSX on Amazon (Canada). I thought it was interesting because it compared the ZSX to other well-known IEMs. I am reproducing it below:






Link:

https://www.amazon.ca/Monitors-Isol...sx&qid=1577035290&sr=8-1&th=1#customerReviews



> Howdy,
> 
> I've been out of the headphone game for about 4ish years now. I never stopped using good headphones, but I haven't been purchasing anything so I decided to dip my toes in again and try out something Chinese, as I've been hearing that the stuff coming out of China has gotten quite good. (Run on sentence much?)
> 
> ...


----------



## tmb821

Ok, so, stupid question here. When putting foam tips on zs10 pro. How far down the nozzle should they go? Stop before the housing? Go all the way to the plastic? Does it matter? Personal preference? Am I just overthinking it?
Lol, thanks for any help.


----------



## SoundChoice

tmb821 said:


> Ok, so, stupid question here. When putting foam tips on zs10 pro. How far down the nozzle should they go? Stop before the housing? Go all the way to the plastic? Does it matter? Personal preference? Am I just overthinking it?
> Lol, thanks for any help.



You're kind of overthinking it. Sometimes, some say that the amount of eartip that extends beyond the nozzle towards your ear can affect the EQ of the music, though that can be minor, if perceptible at all. More importantly, you're going to want the tip on far enough to be securely on the nozzle, while still getting a good fit with the unique anatomy of your ear. For example, maybe all the way on there won't fit your ear as well as if it only half on. Bottom line, I'd go with putting it on as far as you can assuming that way you're getting a good fit.


----------



## tmb821

SoundChoice said:


> You're kind of overthinking it. Sometimes, some say that the amount of eartip that extends beyond the nozzle towards your ear can affect the EQ of the music, though that can be minor, if perceptible at all. More importantly, you're going to want the tip on far enough to be securely on the nozzle, while still getting a good fit with the unique anatomy of your ear. For example, maybe all the way on there won't fit your ear as well as if it only half on. Bottom line, I'd go with putting it on as far as you can assuming that way you're getting a good fit.



so, basically whatever sounds good and fits comfortably. Thanks, I figured I was overthinking.


----------



## charlescc2

What cable are you guys using with the ZSX?  Upgraded 3.5mm cable generally sufficient or are you guys going with 2.5mm balanced (I have a ES100 to take advantage of it)?


----------



## mbwilson111

charlescc2 said:


> What cable are you guys using with the ZSX?  Upgraded 3.5mm cable generally sufficient or are you guys going with 2.5mm balanced (I have a ES100 to take advantage of it)?



I would choose a nice looking balanceed cable and also buy an adapter for use with your 3.5mm souces.  Many people do that.  I personally prefer to do that rather than stress the  earpiece connectors by constantly swapping cables

Here is one example. There are others

https://penonaudio.com/fiio-bl35.html


----------



## charlescc2

mbwilson111 said:


> I would choose a nice looking balanceed cable and also buy an adapter for use with your 3.5mm souces.  Many people do that.  I personally prefer to do that rather than stress the  earpiece connectors by constantly swapping cables
> 
> Here is one example. There are others
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/fiio-bl35.html


 Cool, I've been recommended that FiiO several times so it's always good to see another vote for it.

So I see that the ZSX stock cable has the L shaped 2 pin connectors like the ZSR.  I'm wondering if it's recommended to find a balanced cable that has the L shaped 2 pin connectors or if the straight 2 pin connector is fine.  I have an upgraded 3.5mm cable for my ZSR with the straight connector and don't have any major issue with the way it sits in my ear.


----------



## PhonoPhi

mbwilson111 said:


> I would choose a nice looking balanceed cable and also buy an adapter for use with your 3.5mm souces.  Many people do that.  I personally prefer to do that rather than stress the  earpiece connectors by constantly swapping cables
> 
> Here is one example. There are others
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/fiio-bl35.html


I very much second these suggestions. Getting a 2.5 to. 3.5  connector (I use DJ35A just for the looks) solved my dilemma of thinking of getting some 3.5 cables. Now I can use only 2.5 ones.
The balanced outputs often (not always) offer more - either more power or better S/N.
ES100 is a nice source.


----------



## Firevortex

hey guys any recommendations on bt20s pairing? thinking of buying a C16 would the bt20s drive them effectively? or is there better choices?
currently using the C10s and looking for an upgrade.


----------



## TheVortex

Firevortex said:


> hey guys any recommendations on bt20s pairing? thinking of buying a C16 would the bt20s drive them effectively? or is there better choices?
> currently using the C10s and looking for an upgrade.



Be wary of the noise floor / hiss of the BT20s with sensitive earphones.


----------



## tomaszffffff

Does anyone in this thread can comment on the difference between S1 and S1D? Is hybrid worth it over dynamic, considering I really care about black color?


----------



## courierdriver

charlescc2 said:


> What cable are you guys using with the ZSX?  Upgraded 3.5mm cable generally sufficient or are you guys going with 2.5mm balanced (I have a ES100 to take advantage of it)?


I use a JCally 8 core 2.5 balanced cable on my ZS10 PRO (recd by @mbwilson111...thank you!). That same cable will fit the ZSX also. If you have the ES100 as your source, get a 2.5mm balanced cable to make the most of that device. In the ES100 app, it even boldly states: "balanced is better".


----------



## Solar1971

Just chiming in. 
I’ve had my ZSX’s for almost a week now. 
They are EDM monsters.  If you like any type of EDM the ZSX’s respond VERY well
To an EQ. Personally I’m at roughly +6 dB on bass. Flat on the mids. And +3dB for treble. 
Listening to 320 MP3’s. Wow it sounds good. Giving my CCA C10’s a run for the money. 
That’s all


----------



## zachmal

Anyone has the TRN V90 and either the KZ ZSX or CCA C12 ?

How do the sound signatures compare ?

Is any of the CCA or KZ close to the V90 ?


----------



## Solar1971

zachmal said:


> Anyone has the TRN V90 and either the KZ ZSX or CCA C12 ?
> 
> How do the sound signatures compare ?
> 
> Is any of the CCA or KZ close to the V90 ?



yes yes I have the V90’s the ZSX’s and the C10’s. 
To be honest I find them similar. But not the same. but they are all great for bass / EDM. 
I would say the ZSX and the C10’s are more similar to each other. The V90’s are slightly different. 
But just as good. Those 3 are running neck and neck for my personal top 3. 
One thing I noticed.  They can all sound very similar to each other. But . . . 
The V90’s require almost no EQ whatsoever.  Maybe just a tiny bit. Maybe 1-2 DB bass boost. And a 1-2 DB treble boost.
But that’s at MOST.  Usually I listen to them with no EQ at all. Flat they sound very nice. 
If you like to EQ I would give the edge to the C10’s. But just a slight edge. 
If you don’t like to EQ.  V90’s all the way dude.  Either way you can’t go wrong with these 3 choices. 
Enjoy


----------



## illumidata

zachmal said:


> Anyone has the TRN V90 and either the KZ ZSX or CCA C12 ?
> 
> How do the sound signatures compare ?
> 
> Is any of the CCA or KZ close to the V90 ?



I can compare ZSX with V90, both of which I love!

V90 is well named in so far as it is indeed very V shaped, incredibly coherent, sinewy sub bass, slightly warm mid and upper bass with great slam, recessed but clear mids with roll off at the bottom and top (not best for traditionally recorded vocals but that’s not what I’m using them for). Boosted lower treble with a lot of impact that rolls off quite fast - it’s the treble/bass synergy that makes them special. Fantastic for the kind of psychedelic techno I get off on.

ZSX by comparison is much more reference like with no bloom anywhere, crazy amounts of clarity and a cooler overall presentation. A little roll off on upper mids but other than that they feel pretty linear. Sparkly treble compared to V90 but without a trace of harshness. Very musical and balanced overall. Bass is strong and articulate but can’t get to the monolithic levels the TRN achieves.

Tonally I’d go with organic/dark for the V90s and neutral/cool/slightly cybernetic for the ZSX.

Big soundstage differences, ZSX has the height, V90 the depth, both have a hint of 3d with the edge going to the ZSX, V90s have the width advantage. Isolation and fit, ZSX is a clear winner (for me, this is even more subjective than the SQ comparison), which is why it’s my default choice for when I’m suboptimal listening conditions.

Here’s a crappy illustration of the soundstages


----------



## ShakyJake

mbwilson111 said:


> I would choose a nice looking balanceed cable and also buy an adapter for use with your 3.5mm souces.  Many people do that.  I personally prefer to do that rather than stress the  earpiece connectors by constantly swapping cables
> 
> Here is one example. There are others
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/fiio-bl35.html


Can someone who has more electronics knowledge than I do explain what such adapter is made of. 2.5 mm balanced female to 3.5 mm male connector, Is it just cabling or are there components (resistors, ...) involved? 

If not, why are these so (relatively) expensive?


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 27, 2019)

ShakyJake said:


> Can someone who has more electronics knowledge than I do explain what such adapter is made of. 2.5 mm balanced female to 3.5 mm male connector, Is it just cabling or are there components (resistors, ...) involved?
> 
> If not, why are these so (relatively) expensive?



Just cable wiring.

In a balanced connection, the ground wires from each side are kept separate.  All that adapter does is combine those two wires so there is only one ground at the plug end for a normal non balanced 3.5 mm source output.

Why is ir relatively expensive?  Maybe if it is too cheap they fear that no one will buy it to use with their expensive cables?  I do assume they use decent materials.

I do not buy an adapter for each cable.  I just plug the one into whichever cable I am currently using...when I am using one of my non balanced sources.


----------



## mbwilson111

illumidata said:


> Here’s a crappy illustration of the soundstages



LOL I first read that as "creepy."   Those ARE very creepy


----------



## illumidata

mbwilson111 said:


> LOL I first read that as "creepy."   Those ARE very creepy


Noted .
They are very much a work in progress, or maybe I should just quit while I’m ahead...


----------



## mbwilson111

illumidata said:


> Noted .
> They are very much a work in progress, or maybe I should just quit while I’m ahead...



But they are not crappy...they are cool...and creepy


----------



## kukkurovaca

ShakyJake said:


> If not, why are these so (relatively) expensive?



Niche product, and while the cost of wire is lower than a whole iem cable, there’s still labor and connectors.


----------



## Slater (Dec 27, 2019)

ShakyJake said:


> Can someone who has more electronics knowledge than I do explain what such adapter is made of. 2.5 mm balanced female to 3.5 mm male connector, Is it just cabling or are there components (resistors, ...) involved?
> 
> If not, why are these so (relatively) expensive?



FiiO uses very expensive Japanese Oyaide wire. Also, they are a premium brand (that does a lot of marketing/advertising), so there is a premium price.

I personally use this adapter, which works very well. It’s half the cost of the FiiO adapter cable.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/page-392#post-15379751

Of course it is sold by a generic company that uses generic wire from who-knows-where and is made by some random person in some random factory. But it is perfectly functional and has really low resistance, which is all that matters to me.


----------



## caprimulgus

Slater said:


> I personally use this adapter, which works very well. It’s half the cost of the FiiO adapter cable.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/radsone-earstudio-es100.867366/page-392#post-15379751
> 
> Of course it is sold by a generic company that uses generic wire from who-knows-where and is made by some random person in some random factory. But it is perfectly functional and has really low resistance, which is all that matters to me.




Oh how funny: I asked about that very cable in this thread over here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-247#post-15383440

Too many threads to keep track of in relation to chi-fi! lol


----------



## TechnoidFR

40lb said:


> I know many have talked about the connection issue, for now I haven't had any issues with it. However if I was to grab it with my fingers while it is in my ear the audio does cut out.



To have good connection with smartphone. You need to have S730/S845/S855 which have true wireless stereo plus Qualcomm feature. The both are connected to the smartphone.

With the classic master/slave the performance are mediocre


----------



## -sandro-

Does it exist a KZ

- below $20
- not v shaped
- suitable for sleeping on your side

?


----------



## zachmal

-sandro- said:


> Does it exist a KZ
> 
> - below $20
> - not v shaped
> ...



search for "sleep" in this thread

Does it have to be a KZ though ?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...reference-list.805930/page-1480#post-15386814

the Tennmak Pro are much better and comfortable - they have quite a different sound signature compared to e.g. the BLON BL-03 or other DD IEMs but for sleeping it's alright and actually nice to have not too piercing or overly detailed ones


----------



## -sandro-

zachmal said:


> search for "sleep" in this thread
> 
> Does it have to be a KZ though ?
> 
> ...


I read they are buss heavy and muffled, I'd like a balanced or warm sound.


----------



## zachmal

-sandro- said:


> I read they are buss heavy and muffled, I'd like a balanced or warm sound.



I get the perception that they are muffled but it's probably something else, my audiophile lingo is limited still so I don't really know what causes that veiled or smeared feeling, they are sufficiently detailed and clear though

and they are warm, it's just that they are different.

Someone more knowledgeable might be able to explain it better.

Also the more recent ones are tuned differently than the older models


----------



## Veyska

-sandro- said:


> I read they are buss heavy and muffled, I'd like a balanced or warm sound.





zachmal said:


> I get the perception that they are muffled but it's probably something else, my audiophile lingo is limited still so I don't really know what causes that veiled or smeared feeling, they are sufficiently detailed and clear though
> 
> and they are warm, it's just that they are different.
> 
> ...


Unless I caught back stock I got a fairly recent Tennmak Pro (ordered it within the last year).  I wouldn't describe it as at all muffled, but it does lean a bit bassy and warm.  Not at all unpleasantly bassy, I'm no basshead and prefer a relatively neutral sound signature but while it was a touch bassier than I'd prefer for a primary IEM it was *only* a touch and it was quite comfortable.  Have not tried sleeping with it though


----------



## darmanastartes

Solar1971 said:


> yes yes I have the V90’s the ZSX’s and the C10’s.
> To be honest I find them similar. But not the same. but they are all great for bass / EDM.
> I would say the ZSX and the C10’s are more similar to each other. The V90’s are slightly different.
> But just as good. Those 3 are running neck and neck for my personal top 3.
> ...


You add more bass to the V90?!?


----------



## Solar1971

darmanastartes said:


> You add more bass to the V90?!?



Yeah, either i listen to it completely flat or with a slight bass bump of 1-2 db and a 1-2 db treble boost.
But 1-2 db is pretty small. 
When i first got them... I only listened to them flat.
But maybe after burning them in the sound changed? i don't really know for sure.
Maybe my ears simply got used to the sound. So then i wanted a little bit more bass... lololol

Only the TFZ #3 i NEVER EVER add bass to...
Usually i only add some treble. starting from 2k and up i add 3-4 db roughly.
But the TFZ #3 are MEGA bass cannons in my opinion.
The extra treble is to make them sound more balanced. hahaha


----------



## -sandro-

zachmal said:


> search for "sleep" in this thread
> 
> Does it have to be a KZ though ?
> 
> ...



Are they all v shaped for real the KZ?


----------



## PhonoPhi

-sandro- said:


> Are they all v shaped for real the KZ?


Not KZ AS16, AS12 and ZSX.
Or older dynamic ones, like ED9 - quite nice for under $10 - small, but longish to sleep comfortably.
I do not have older KZ.


----------



## -sandro-

PhonoPhi said:


> Not KZ AS16, AS12 and ZSX.
> Or older dynamic ones, like ED9 - quite nice for under $10 - small, but longish to sleep comfortably.
> I do not have older KZ.



Also depends how deep that v shape is for the others...


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

-sandro- said:


> I read they are buss heavy and muffled, I'd like a balanced or warm sound.



I prefer balanced sound and I wouldn't call Tennmak Pro as muffled or bass heavy. Sure, they're warm and have enough thump but bass doesn't veil mids. Highs are not crisp but they have enough sparkle to balance out overall performance. For ~$15, it's probably great for sleeping thanks to it's comfortable design. And I somewhat agree with @zachmal here


----------



## -sandro-

Dani157 said:


> I prefer balanced sound and I wouldn't call Tennmak Pro as muffled or bass heavy. Sure, they're warm and have enough thump but bass doesn't veil mids. Highs are not crisp but they have enough sparkle to balance out overall performance. For ~$15, it's probably great for sleeping thanks to it's comfortable design. And I somewhat agree with @zachmal here



Where for $15?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

-sandro- said:


> Where for $15?



On the official AE store. You can get earheads for ~$10 with AE coupons and a decent mmcx cable for $5-7 from nicehck or any other store. And if you don't want to search for a cable just ask Tony from Tennmak to give you a cable he'll plug one in at a nominal price.


----------



## Nimweth

-sandro- said:


> Does it exist a KZ
> 
> - below $20
> - not v shaped
> ...


ED9 with gold filter


----------



## baskingshark

Solar1971 said:


> Yeah, either i listen to it completely flat or with a slight bass bump of 1-2 db and a 1-2 db treble boost.
> But 1-2 db is pretty small.
> When i first got them... I only listened to them flat.
> But maybe after burning them in the sound changed? i don't really know for sure.
> ...



Welcome to the basshead club. I think you should check out the KZ ZS7 since you like bass so much.


----------



## raccoon city

baskingshark said:


> Welcome to the basshead club. I think you should check out the KZ ZS7 since you like bass so much.


I agree.
I'm a basshead and I love my KZ ZS7.


----------



## Solar1971

baskingshark said:


> Welcome to the basshead club. I think you should check out the KZ ZS7 since you like bass so much.



really? KZ ZS7. Hmmm I might just do that. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## HungryPanda

KZ AS06 is not very V shaped having only 3BA per side


----------



## Ynot1

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...3.0&pvid=17075af6-73ac-469f-9988-b7735e2a4880

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921157365.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.5.67af74e9DrTZJS

Anyone with experience using these. I was thinking of using a mesh inside tip to tune the highs or even use two mesh with damping material to tune possibly. But I did not know what size would go in there.


----------



## eclein

Happy New Year folks....
Be safe.....
Ed


----------



## Solar1971

Happy NUDE year to everyone. Yea!!!


----------



## genck

Solar1971 said:


> Happy NUDE year to everyone. Yea!!!


----------



## Solar1971

Hahahahaha hahahahaha 
Very funny.  Thanks.


----------



## -sandro- (Dec 31, 2019)

Dani157 said:


> On the official AE store. You can get earheads for ~$10 with AE coupons and a decent mmcx cable for $5-7 from nicehck or any other store. And if you don't want to search for a cable just ask Tony from Tennmak to give you a cable he'll plug one in at a nominal price.



Is this the Pro?
https://a.aliexpress.com/rOR8Ztlnz

I can't find the earheads and for $10.


----------



## mbwilson111 (Dec 31, 2019)

-sandro- said:


> Is this the Pro?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/rOR8Ztlnz
> 
> I can't find the earheads and for $10.



Second or third option, $12.99.


----------



## zachmal

mbwilson111 said:


> Second or third option, $12.99.



++

where it says

"only PRO black head"

or

"only PRO clear head"

behind "Color:"

I got the 2nd option


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

-sandro- said:


> Is this the Pro?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/rOR8Ztlnz
> 
> I can't find the earheads and for $10.



There are AliExpress coupons which will bring the price ~$10.



mbwilson111 said:


> Second or third option, $12.99.





zachmal said:


> ++
> 
> where it says
> 
> ...



Thanks for helping him out


----------



## -sandro-

Dani157 said:


> There are AliExpress coupons which will bring the price ~$10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You mean new users coupons?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

-sandro- said:


> You mean new users coupons?



Not only those, there are coupons which you can get for exchanging coins in the coupon centre. There are many games which give you coins. Collect more coins and exchange them for coupons.


----------



## tmb821

So I just upgraded my zs10 pro’s with a  tripowin c8 cable. I got the 2.5mm balanced cable in preparation for the es100 I have coming. Also got a fiio bl35 to go with it, just in case I want to use se. I have to say that it sounds great playing off of my btr3 in se right now. I’m not a big believer in cables making a difference in sound, but I swear things sound crisper. Am I nuts?


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 2, 2020)

tmb821 said:


> So I just upgraded my zs10 pro’s with a  tripowin c8 cable. I got the 2.5mm balanced cable in preparation for the es100 I have coming. Also got a fiio bl35 to go with it, just in case I want to use se. I have to say that it sounds great playing off of my btr3 in se right now. I’m not a big believer in cables making a difference in sound, but I swear things sound crisper. Am I nuts?


Different materials used on the flow of electricity can make a difference even to the audible ear. For example, there is copper, silver-plated, gold-plated, and even mixed cables offered at different price ranges for the benefit of better cables, which carry the better flow of electricity for a slight improvement in the overall sound signature and majority of most IEM's. Also, ear tips further helps to slightly change the sound as well.

Hope this helps to know that you're not nuts! 

-Clear


----------



## tmb821

1clearhead said:


> Different materials used on the flow of electricity can make a difference even to the audible ear. For example, there is copper, silver-plated, gold-plated, and even mixed cables offered at different price ranges for the benefit of better cables, which carry the better flow of electricity for a slight improvement in the overall sound signature and majority of most IEM's. Also, ear tips further helps to slightly change the sound as well.
> 
> Hope this helps to no that you're not nuts!
> 
> -Clear



I already run foam tips on them, can’t stand silicone tips. It says it’s a silver copper foil wire. I don’t care what it’s made of, looks great and sounds great!


----------



## courierdriver

tmb821 said:


> So I just upgraded my zs10 pro’s with a  tripowin c8 cable. I got the 2.5mm balanced cable in preparation for the es100 I have coming. Also got a fiio bl35 to go with it, just in case I want to use se. I have to say that it sounds great playing off of my btr3 in se right now. I’m not a big believer in cables making a difference in sound, but I swear things sound crisper. Am I nuts?


First off, congrats on stepping up to a balanced cable. I don't own the Tripowin you have, but I do own a number of other brands of 2.5 balanced cables from JCally, Nicehck and ISN Audio. Going balanced will make a nice improvement when you get your ES100. BTW, I'm rocking my ZS10 PRO right now with a balanced JCally cable through the balanced output of my ES100. Using Newbee foam tips. Aerosmith playing right now on Spotify Premium. This is my current favorite daily driver combo, and listen to this setup at least 3-4 times a week. With the ZS10 PRO/balanced cable/foam tips/ES100 combo...you will always be asking yourself...why would I need to pay more? This combo (at least imho, and to my ears) is better than my old $10,000+ high end home audio speaker based system.


----------



## tmb821

btr3, bl35, tripowin c8, zs10pro.


----------



## tinbilly

My trn bt20 can no longer pair to each other although I have tried to reset/clear the memory and re-pair following various instructions (turn on - enter pairing mode - press the right button twice / press both left/right button once). Any advise? Many thanks!


----------



## DynamicEars

tinbilly said:


> My trn bt20 can no longer pair to each other although I have tried to reset/clear the memory and re-pair following various instructions (turn on - enter pairing mode - press the right button twice / press both left/right button once). Any advise? Many thanks!



1. Turn off your phone bluetooth
2. Press and hold the BT20 (right and left) until around 8-10 seconds until you heard sound notification and keep pressing until they turned off (after "pairing" sound keep pressing until notification note sound, and keep pressing until automatically turned off) - this will factory reset your BT20
3. Turn on and hold until 5 second until you heard pairing..
4. Press once on your right module, then press once on your left module - your left module will stop blinking, with your right module now blinking red blue red blue red blue
5. Turn on your phone BT, search for TRN BT20, you should be connected to your right module and hence automatically connected to left slave module.
6. Give me a treat


----------



## tinbilly

Many thanks for the instructions.  I tried, but still the left and right modules did not connect to each other.


----------



## DynamicEars

tinbilly said:


> Many thanks for the instructions.  I tried, but still the left and right modules did not connect to each other.



Did you drop it? Have you try to recharge them?
If not then must be something faulty with your unit. Did they splashed by water or much sweat? 
Im sorry but maybe they are broken then.
How long do you have the BT20?


----------



## tinbilly (Jan 4, 2020)

I have my bt20 for over a year now. I guess I dropped it once, but it still worked well after that. Have tried to fully recharge them. Strange that each of the module can connect and work well with my phone. But the 2 modules simply cannot "find" each other.


----------



## DynamicEars

tinbilly said:


> I have my bt20 for over a year now. I guess I dropped it once, but it still worked well after that. Have tried to fully recharge them. Strange that each of the module can connect and work well with my phone. But the 2 modules simply cannot "find" each other.



Have you "forget" the both module left and right from your phone? And try to connect right module with left module while your phone bt is turned off. Once i got this problem what i did is forget the connection, reset the both module by keep pressing until 10seconds until they turned off by themselves, and after go into pairing mode, press once on right module, wait 2 seconds, press once on left module, then turn on your phone bluetooth and connect to right module. Dont let them connect to your phone directly before they connect each other. Hopefully it works


----------



## Sebulr

tinbilly said:


> My trn bt20 can no longer pair to each other although I have tried to reset/clear the memory and re-pair following various instructions (turn on - enter pairing mode - press the right button twice / press both left/right button once). Any advise? Many thanks!


Yes. Hold the button down for approx 12 seconds on both sets. They switch on going into pairing mode, then reset. Then when you power them back on they re pair each other, like you just got them out if the box. It took me hours one day to this, so I feel your frustration.


----------



## toxyyyyyyy

Just bought KZ S1D TWS in green. Looks neat, feels like typical KZ - good materials, nice case etc. Although got a problem - after like an hour of listening the bitrate jumping up and down (or feels like it) every few minutes. Listening through my iPhone 11. Anyone got same problem on these earphones or maybe any other TWS? Thanks!


----------



## schom

SoundChoice said:


> My first week on head-fi: $10 was considered a lot to pay for an IEM
> My first month, $25 was a lot for premium IEM
> After 2 months, why not try $50 to see if results were twice as good.
> My 3rd month, I learned you can't get a good IEM for under $100.
> ...



Thank you very much. If your are not an audiophil so it doesn`t make sense to spend more than 50 USD for your equipment.
I also dont need a new a pair of headphones every month. If you are audiophil it would be better when you spend 100 USD on one pair of headphones instead of 5 pairs of chifi.
I realised that after i move to another home. All this headphones, cables, ... that you do not need. Thus i decide to spend my money wisely.  Sorry for my english.


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEMs at ~$35-$75 feel most rewarding now (capabilities for the price) with the likes of KZ ZSX, CCA C12, TRN V90 on the lower end, and LZ A6 mini, Nicehck NX7, CCA C16 at the upper boundary.

This is a really great segment (and great time) to enjoy IEM progress now, I am biased to think.

Also, buying sceintific equipment I once learned that two pieces may function more efficient and be less costly than a single piece with the capabilities of both.
So having several IEMs with different signatures is both efffective and enjoyable.

EQ can help a lot, as long as not try to "add more" ( it is hard to add what may not be there) but to trim a bit, especially treble, to enjoy it more.

Then 2-3  ~$50 IEMs can bring a lot of music enjoyment


----------



## rokushoo

Got myself a new solder iron and finally finished modding my ATRs. I also decided to install mmcx connectors in my ED9s. It was kinda fun to breath some new life into a couple of old favorites.


----------



## Slater

rokushoo said:


> Got myself a new solder iron and finally finished modding my ATRs. I also decided to install mmcx connectors in my ED9s. It was kinda fun to breath some new life into a couple of old favorites.



Nice job!


----------



## BadReligionPunk

Any guide for the ed9 mmcx mod? I mean I would be quite content with ed9 at work all day if I could pimp a different cable or even possibly a BT cable.


----------



## rokushoo

Slater said:


> Nice job!


Thank you!


BadReligionPunk said:


> Any guide for the ed9 mmcx mod? I mean I would be quite content with ed9 at work all day if I could pimp a different cable or even possibly a BT cable.


Sorry I don't have a guide for the mod and I didn't think to take any pictures of the process. If you have experience soldering other iems or small electronics it shouldn't be too difficult. The two most challenging parts of the mod are widening the hole that the connector is going into and the lack of space inside the ed9s. To widen the hole, I used a dremel with a cylinder shaped diamond burr bit and just went slow checking the fit frequently. A pair of needle nose tweezers is pretty much a must when soldering the wires to the drivers and if you have a pair with a curved tip that's even better.  I used the type B connectors in this link.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33035633031.html


----------



## tinbilly

DynamicEars said:


> Have you "forget" the both module left and right from your phone? And try to connect right module with left module while your phone bt is turned off. Once i got this problem what i did is forget the connection, reset the both module by keep pressing until 10seconds until they turned off by themselves, and after go into pairing mode, press once on right module, wait 2 seconds, press once on left module, then turn on your phone bluetooth and connect to right module. Dont let them connect to your phone directly before they connect each other. Hopefully it works


I give up. Tried on 2 pairs of bt20, but they failed to pair to each other.

I used to have success with the instructions below, but totally failed this time. Any further advise is much appreciated. 

1: Long press button on both modules for about 5 seconds for Left/Right pairing sequence. 
2. Once there, press the button on Right module 2 times quickly. The Left / Right are paired. You'll see the light on one of the module fades and turns offs. Left/Right Pairing is done. 
3. Switch off the modules. 
4. To pair with phone, long press for 3~5 seconds, and turn on BT module on handphone / laptop to search and pair. It will pair as per any normal BT module now. 
5. If left/right pairing fails, you can reset/redo the pairing by long pressing the buttons for both modules for 15 seconds to clear the memory. And repeat from Step 1.


----------



## DynamicEars

tinbilly said:


> I give up. Tried on 2 pairs of bt20, but they failed to pair to each other.
> 
> I used to have success with the instructions below, but totally failed this time. Any further advise is much appreciated.
> 
> ...



Thats totally wrong, look for my instruction before

To pair the right and left unit, press once on right module then wait 1-2 second, press once on left module (not quickly press only the the right module 2x)

After that do not turn off the module, just connect with your phone.

But i guess you already done it wrong, so you have to total reset both unit first. Go back check my previous post


----------



## Solar1971

Why are Bluetooth devices so hard to pair up?


----------



## tinbilly

DynamicEars said:


> Thats totally wrong, look for my instruction before
> 
> To pair the right and left unit, press once on right module then wait 1-2 second, press once on left module (not quickly press only the the right module 2x)
> 
> ...



You mean press once on right module after the voice notice saying "pairing" ?


----------



## DynamicEars

Solar1971 said:


> Why are Bluetooth devices so hard to pair up?



its easy once you understand them, not that complicated actually


----------



## DynamicEars

tinbilly said:


> You mean press once on right module after the voice notice saying "pairing" ?



yes press once on right module, then press once on left module

but remember to reset all module first by keep pressing and holding until 10 seconds from "turn on" --> "pairing" ----> keep pressing ---> "na na na (3 times note)" keep pressing ----> "na na na (3 times note) and your both module are automatically turned off.

now they are already in factory default state.

so now turn on both your right and left module, keep pressing until you heard "pairing", then press once on your right module, then press once on your left module. this way your left module will stop blinking (no light), while your right module is  still blinking red blue red blue (this means your left module already connected to your right module as a slave, and your right module is waiting to be paired with your phone)

now turn on your bluetooth, look for TRN BT20 and connect. thats all


----------



## tinbilly (Jan 7, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> yes press once on right module, then press once on left module
> 
> but remember to reset all module first by keep pressing and holding until 10 seconds from "turn on" --> "pairing" ----> keep pressing ---> "na na na (3 times note)" keep pressing ----> "na na na (3 times note) and your both module are automatically turned off.
> 
> ...


Many thanks. All is good now. I missed this part, "keep pressing ----> "na na na (3 times note) and your both module are automatically turned off.""


----------



## DynamicEars

tinbilly said:


> Many thanks. All is good now. I missed this part, "keep pressing ----> "na na na (3 times note) and your both module are automatically turned off.""



Glad that finally you got them works, i did write before seems like you miss that. Anyway enjoy now


----------



## eclein (Jan 7, 2020)

I got some Shuoer H27s for $99 on Amazon (there is a coupon check box for -$10).
1 DD and 2 Knowles BA’s and I love these things. Great low end and non-sibilant high end with tons of detail.
I had to try them, got that “you must buy” and try these Shuoers with Knowles BA’s and I’m enjoying them immensely. I’ve read impressions that “they are just another Chifi iem”- but to me they are bloody perfect. Tuning on both Shuoers I own is excellent. A brand to keep an eye on, for me at least.
My ears and my impressions, yours may vary wildly.

oops wrong thread, please move to $100 or under thread...sorry folks


----------



## VibrantHarmonics

Question guys, do you recommend the KZ ZSX or ZS10 Pro? I am searching for new IEM since my ZS6 died after I think 2 years of use.


----------



## Courage09

Where can I buy stock tips from KZ ZS10 PRO? They are starlines but smoother and better than regular/old starlines.


----------



## Slater

Courage09 said:


> Where can I buy stock tips from KZ ZS10 PRO? They are starlines but smoother and better than regular/old starlines.



Actually, the best Starlines are the ones from the ZS4 and ZS3E. I’d buy a suitcase full of them if I could find them sold separately.


----------



## DynamicEars

VibrantHarmonics said:


> Question guys, do you recommend the KZ ZSX or ZS10 Pro? I am searching for new IEM since my ZS6 died after I think 2 years of use.



ZSX pros against ZS10 PRO : better timbre, no more metallic sounding especially on high frequencies, more balanced signature, better soundstage and imaging,

in other word ZSX is a perfection of ZS10 Pro, but the fit. ZS10 pro is much smaller and easier to fit. ZSX fit isnt bad, but they have protrude like custom IEM and have bigger shell


----------



## genck

DynamicEars said:


> ZSX pros against ZS10 PRO : better timbre, no more metallic sounding especially on high frequencies, more balanced signature, better soundstage and imaging,
> 
> in other word ZSX is a perfection of ZS10 Pro, but the fit. ZS10 pro is much smaller and easier to fit. ZSX fit isnt bad, but they have protrude like custom IEM and have bigger shell


I want these ZSX pros you speak of that don't exist


----------



## DynamicEars

genck said:


> I want these ZSX pros you speak of that don't exist



lol i was talking about ZSX's pros (instead of cons)


----------



## Supremevegbeef

What is the very best KZ at this moment? im really enjoying AS10 with foam tips (much better bass presence) If you have as10 and didn’t try them with foam tips try it and tell me if you get much more natural bass


----------



## DynamicEars

Supremevegbeef said:


> What is the very best KZ at this moment? im really enjoying AS10 with foam tips (much better bass presence) If you have as10 and didn’t try them with foam tips try it and tell me if you get much more natural bass



ZSX


----------



## Supremevegbeef

DynamicEars said:


> ZSX


Thanks. My first KZ were the ATE. Sometimes I wish I could hear them again. They were vented!!!!


----------



## genck

Supremevegbeef said:


> They were vented!!!!


What is the alleged benefit there?


----------



## raccoon city

Supremevegbeef said:


> What is the very best KZ at this moment? im really enjoying AS10 with foam tips (much better bass presence) If you have as10 and didn’t try them with foam tips try it and tell me if you get much more natural bass


Some say that the KZ ZS7 has the most bass.
If you're like me, and that's what you're after, then that's the best KZ IEM right now.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

genck said:


> What is the alleged benefit there?


Snippy aren’t we? It improves soundstage but the downside is sound leakage. Same as normal headphones. 
if you have any IEM that are vented put your finger over the vent and see what happens.


----------



## genck

Supremevegbeef said:


> Snippy aren’t we? It improves soundstage but the downside is sound leakage. Same as normal headphones.
> if you have any IEM that are vented put your finger over the vent and see what happens.


I'm aware of the pee holes in IEM's and the various purposes they serve depending on position, some actually don't do anything at all and are for looks (the large ones on some shells). I wasn't trying to be snippy. I just wanted to see what you had to say.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

genck said:


> I'm aware of the pee holes in IEM's and the various purposes they serve depending on position, some actually don't do anything at all and are for looks (the large ones on some shells). I wasn't trying to be snippy. I just wanted to see what you had to say.


If I bought iems because the vents in the picture and they were just for show I’d lose it. Once you hear the soundstage of a truly vented IEM it’s hard to go back to totally sealed. At least for me
I just bought some ZSX on amazon. They’ll be here tomorrow


----------



## DynamicEars

Supremevegbeef said:


> If I bought iems because the vents in the picture and they were just for show I’d lose it. Once you hear the soundstage of a truly vented IEM it’s hard to go back to totally sealed. At least for me
> I just bought some ZSX on amazon. They’ll be here tomorrow



Nice they have large soundstage despite with minal vent holes.
If you like semi open back iem, try **** pro


----------



## Supremevegbeef

I put a silver cable on my AS10. With the better cable and foam tips I am so in love with the sound. Can’t wait to see how ZSX is. But I won’t feel bad if I like as10 most


----------



## nxnje

DynamicEars said:


> ZSX


Agreed.
The ZSX are so good. 
At the time of ZS7 I thought they were absolute monsters, listening to them now I prefer the ZS6 and comparing with the newer ZS10 Pros and ZSX there's no chance for the ZS7, at least for me.
I love bass and sub-bass but the ZS7 have a strange tuning that I still did not understand. 
I don't mean I do not like them, but there are better choices around.
They're sub-bass cannons and love listening dubstep on them, but dub growls and synths are just so much bettee on the ZSX. Plus, the ZSX are not so deep in terms of insertion, and this is really something to consider for long listening sessions.

I cannot say that the ZSX is the best KZ  nowadays, moreover because I did not listen to AS16 and AS10, so I cannot speak about something I do not know.
What can I say, objectively, is that the ZSX is a real bargain.
Check the TRN V90 as well, they're good as well (and much more comfy than the ZSX sadly).


----------



## nraymond

nxnje said:


> I love bass and sub-bass but the ZS7 have a strange tuning that I still did not understand.
> I don't mean I do not like them, but there are better choices around.



I actually really like the ZS7, but not with the stock ear tips. If you're interested in a balanced sound, try wide-bore tips on the ZS7. JVC Spiral Dots (and Spiral Dots++) are nice, though the bass will still be a bit elevated. I have the Tenmak Whirlwind tips on my ZS7 right now, and they bring the overall bass down while delivering a really good sub-bass, mids and treble that I think works with a wide range of genres. (I'm also lucky that the ZS7 fit in my ears with no discomfort.)


----------



## tmb821

I put the stock foam tips from my tin t2’s onto my zs10 pro’s. While I didn’t like them on the tin’s, I’m loving them on the 10 pro’s!


----------



## Nimweth

nraymond said:


> I actually really like the ZS7, but not with the stock ear tips. If you're interested in a balanced sound, try wide-bore tips on the ZS7. JVC Spiral Dots (and Spiral Dots++) are nice, though the bass will still be a bit elevated. I have the Tenmak Whirlwind tips on my ZS7 right now, and they bring the overall bass down while delivering a really good sub-bass, mids and treble that I think works with a wide range of genres. (I'm also lucky that the ZS7 fit in my ears with no discomfort.)


Yes, the ZS7 is still one of my favourite IEMs, especially for a "fun" tuning. I also use Spiral Dots with them.


----------



## HungryPanda

I still love the ZS7


----------



## Nimweth

My top three KZs: ZS7, ZS10 Pro, ZSX.


----------



## HungryPanda

First gen ZS5 is Still a winner


----------



## Slater (Jan 10, 2020)

And the ZS1 v1 (brass ring). Still one of my all time favorite KZs to this day.

If KZ re-released it 100% exactly how it originally came out, but updated it with a 2-pin socket, they’d sell a million of them. Especially with the recent resurgence in popularity of dynamic-only earphones.

ZS7, ZS10 Pro, ZS5 v1, ZS6 v1, and ZS1 v1 are my top 5.


----------



## genck

My favorite KZ is the ZS10 Pro


Spoiler



my only kz


----------



## Tonymac136

I've been using the S1 as my only IEM today. First chance I've had to really bond with it, though at maybe 10 hours it's not fully burned in yet.
Pros
3 hour battery life is pessimistic - I'm losing about 60% in 3 hours
Super comfortable - I've changed tips to the Chinese Sony Hybrids and the seal is the best I have with any IEM. Wearing them for 3 hours at a time is no issue at all. Any other IEM and I'd have been reaching for a pair of cans after an hour or so.
Sound is good for the money. Quite balanced, a small upper mid spike, and not for bassheads but it's likeable. Shallow V shape if anything.
Bluetooth connection seems totally reliable.
Cons
Some steeliness to the timbre but this only rears its ugly head in high volume situations. It's way better than the ZS10 in this regard.
Only seems to connect to my phone in SBC mode. All requests to do otherwise are ignored. This could be my phone or the S1 but I feel I should mention it.


----------



## BadReligionPunk

My favorite KZ is the ES4. That thing is just so good. I love it. Of all the KZ I have owned I have sold off all of them except the EDR1, ED9 and ES4.
A $3 IEM, a $9 IEM and an $11 IEM 

What?


----------



## chinmie

The best KZ that I've tried so far is the ZS10 Pro. Haven't listen to other KZ much though


----------



## Solar1971

I just received my KZ ZST Pro, And KZ ZSR IEMs. 
Both were in front of my door when I got home. Yea!

im listening to the ZST Pros right now. 
Wow. I’m really surprised at how nice they sound. 
These were so cheap!!! 14 or 15$. How the heck can they have such a nice sound?
They fit very well and have sexy bass. Maybe they aren’t the most detailed. But for so cheap
They easily sound Like 50$ IEMs. Crazy awesome sexy time!!
Go Go KZ!!!


----------



## Solar1971

Man these ZST pros sound so nice. 
All I can really say to knowledge zenith is HOW?
How do these sound so good for 15$ ?
The only thing I can say that’s a little negative is. The mids are average. 
I guess that’s the norm for a V shaped sound.  But dang KZ. You’ve  done good with these. 
Ok. . . . .
Now It’s time to check out the ZSRs.


----------



## Solar1971

Ok. Been listening To the ZSRs for about 5 minutes. I know it’s too early to tell yet but.......
These already sound more capable then the ZST Pros. The ZST Pros are awesome for the price. But less “Complete”, if you catch my drift.
The ZSRs don’t have as much crazy bass. But WAY more then enough. And the thing is that the mids and highs are superior to my ears
with the ZSRs. Man oh man. 20$ for this??? I ate lunch today at work. It was 17.75$ 
These IEMs were 2.25$ more then my lunch. What???
Will get back once I listen more. 
Take it easy


----------



## Tonymac136

Bang for buck? Try the EDR1 or ED9!


----------



## Solar1971

Tonymac136 said:


> Bang for buck? Try the EDR1 or ED9!



no way. How can anything be a better value then these? It’s not possible. I refuse to believe it. 
What type of sound do they have?


----------



## Supremevegbeef




----------



## Solar1971

Supremevegbeef said:


>



oh no. You’re showing off your precious gems. Don’t make me get out my gems and then take pictures of them. 
Then spend 45 minutes trying to figure out how to up load them, then another 15 minutes learning how to
Link to them. 
Because I maybe old. But I’ll do it!!!  Lol

I wanna guess. One set looks like my KZ AS10’s. The other says 12 so maybe KZ ZS12’s? 
Is that even a thing?


----------



## Supremevegbeef

Solar1971 said:


> oh no. You’re showing off your precious gems. Don’t make me get out my gems and then take pictures of them.
> Then spend 45 minutes trying to figure out how to up load them, then another 15 minutes learning how to
> Link to them.
> Because I maybe old. But I’ll do it!!!  Lol
> ...


Close man! Zsx on left, as10 on right.


----------



## DynamicEars

Supremevegbeef said:


> Close man! Zsx on left, as10 on right.



so how are they? do you like them?


----------



## Solar1971

Supremevegbeef said:


> Close man! Zsx on left, as10 on right.



ahhh. I thought those looked like ZSXs. But I don’t remember my ZSX’s having a 12 on the face plate. 
Is that a 12 ?
Man I must be getting old. If my ZSX have a 12 on the front and I didn’t even notice. Hahahahaha
Dang now I need to check because I might be going senile. Lololol


----------



## Solar1971

DynamicEars said:


> so how are they? do you like them?



I know you didn’t ask me. But I’m  Still gonna say it.
The ZSX are very nice. Not sibilant. Good bass. Good for electronic music.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

DynamicEars said:


> so how are they? do you like them?



They complement each other closer than I expected. ZSX is like AS10 but a bit more v shaped. A little less mids, better bass energy, could use a touch more sparkle in the high end IMO but the KZ silver cable solves that issue just fine. AS10 has deep accurate bass without the impact of ZSX, and great mids like Sony MDR V6. But AS10 bass is more precise, and has very impressive imaging of mid bass frequencies, whereas ZSX bass is a lot more fun. I found switching back from ZSX to AS10 I notice more detail all over. ZSX has this same detail, but it is hidden behind the impact of the bass. 

If you were to put me on a desert island right now, and I can only take ZSX or AS10, I take AS10 with silver cable and a lifetime supply of foam tips...


----------



## Supremevegbeef (Jan 11, 2020)

I can’t honestly say I like one better than the other. Don’t get me wrong. AS10 and ZSX are yin and yang.

Thank you guys for your help, see you all in a couple years when it’s time to replace these two....


----------



## PhonoPhi

My favourite KZs are AS10 and AS12 (and would be also AS16 and ZSX, given that I have CCA C16 & C12).


----------



## jeromeaparis

PhonoPhi said:


> My favourite KZs are AS10 and AS12 (and would be also AS16 and ZSX, given that I have CCA C16 & C12).



I do have AS10 and C12, both are great. Maybe C12 has more puch in the bass and AS10 has low level trebles.
Is it worth trying the AS12 (I know AS 12 has two bass BA when AS10 has only one and AS12 treble level is higher than AS10)
Thanks for your advice.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 11, 2020)

jeromeaparis said:


> I do have AS10 and C12, both are great. Maybe C12 has more puch in the bass and AS10 has low level trebles.
> Is it worth trying the AS12 (I know AS 12 has two bass BA when AS10 has only one and AS12 treble level is higher than AS10 both balanced)
> Thanks for your advice.


My story on AS12 is that in its stock form it has a very good level of bass (more to my ears than AS10, both powered balanced) and a good BA bass.
AS12 treble is quite tamed, and I think it is made so to be close to AS10.
Many like it. I liked it at first. Then timbre felt a bit off, so I opted to remove the treble filters which made the treble quite rich (very rich).
I am now exploring more treble, also with NX7, so it suits me at the moment (when tired I can always go back to good old AS10).
I think a bit milder filters than stock  (some foam) could make AS12 a very nice IEM.
So that is my limited take on it


----------



## Aparker2005

I got custom Ultimate Ears done back in August or September so I've fallen off the kz bandwagon, but is anything new coming soon? Seems like it's been a while. 

I have ZS10 Pros as my backup and while I love them, I almost for whatever reason want a set of AS10 or AS16 again instead.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

In the last few days I have been enjoying the new version of ZS10 again. For me, it is the most neutral KZ, even if it does sound little odd. 
(It sounds different from the original ZS10.)


----------



## Solar1971

I only know of the ZS10 and the ZS10 Pro. 
I didn’t know there was a New ZS10. That’s cool. 
So they are very neutral. I tend to enjoy a slight V shape sound. 
But that’s probably because of the type I listen to usually. 
EDM mostly. Sometime Jazz as well.


----------



## baskingshark

xxAMAROKxx said:


> In the last few days I have been enjoying the new version of ZS10 again. For me, it is the most neutral KZ, even if it does sound little odd.
> (It sounds different from the original ZS10.)



There's a new ZS10 (non pro)? Other than sound, is there anything else that's different?

I sold away my ZS10 (non pro) cause it was too V shaped and the fit was uncomfortable, with a bad midbass bleed. But if there's a new tuning, I wouldn't mind checking it out.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jan 12, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> There's a new ZS10 (non pro)? Other than sound, is there anything else that's different?
> 
> I sold away my ZS10 (non pro) cause it was too V shaped and the fit was uncomfortable, with a bad midbass bleed. But if there's a new tuning, I wouldn't mind checking it out.





xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hello folks,
> I bought a new zs10 (blue one looks better with a silver cable) and find out, that there are two visible differences compared to the old one.
> - *different look of bass driver*
> - *different placement of ba drivers and two of them are placed closer to the nozzle.
> ...



Tuning of this new ZS10 is rather U-shaped, than V-Shaped. Bass is more under control and Treble peak is at higher frequency. ZS10 still sounds best at higher volume.


EDIT: And the comparison of ZS10, AS10, BQEYZ K1
LOWS: K1 >= ZS10  > AS10
MIDS: K1 > AS10 > ZS10
HEIGHS: K1 > ZS10 > AS10
SOUNDSTAGE: K1 > ZS10 > AS10
IMAGING: K1 > AS10 > ZS10
~K1 beats almost all my KZ iems, maybe except AS12. It is also very balanced~


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

In my case zs10 sound like L-shape: big bass and a bit mid+high.


----------



## Solar1971

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Tuning of this new ZS10 is rather U-shaped, than V-Shaped. Bass is more under control and Treble peak is at higher frequency. ZS10 still sounds best at higher volume.
> 
> 
> EDIT: And the comparison of ZS10, AS10, BQEYZ K1
> ...



wow so you really like the BQEYZ K1. Dang. That’s cool.
Let me ask you a question please. 
I just received the BQEYZ BQ3. And I like the sound signature of them. 
Slightly V shaped but not too much. 
They are very nice for EDM and Jazz. 
Are the K1 similar to the BQ3 ?
Also I have the KB100. How do those sound in comparison to the K1?
Thank you.


----------



## Degru

What does removing grill from the nozzle do to sound on zs7, before I try it? I'm thinking it could make the sound more coherent by clearing the sound path and preventing reflections... I don't really worry about stuff getting in there either because my earwax does not form chunks and stays wet.


----------



## DynamicEars

Degru said:


> What does removing grill from the nozzle do to sound on zs7, before I try it? I'm thinking it could make the sound more coherent by clearing the sound path and preventing reflections... I don't really worry about stuff getting in there either because my earwax does not form chunks and stays wet.



I dont have ZS7 but be careful of shrilling and shouty from high mids area, also there are a lot things can go inside the shell that way, better to keep your grill on. KZs dont put  dampers behind the grill usually so sonically they wont change much but you are risking your ZS7 that way.


----------



## Degru

DynamicEars said:


> I dont have ZS7 but be careful of shrilling and shouty from high mids area, also there are a lot things can go inside the shell that way, better to keep your grill on. KZs dont put  dampers behind the grill usually so sonically they wont change much but you are risking your ZS7 that way.


Got gifted this pair so I won't be too unhappy if it dies. They make a good beater pair of iems but it's hard to get over the bad timbre compared to my etys. Once you look past that they have surprisingly good resolution tho.


----------



## DynamicEars

Degru said:


> Got gifted this pair so I won't be too unhappy if it dies. They make a good beater pair of iems but it's hard to get over the bad timbre compared to my etys. Once you look past that they have surprisingly good resolution tho.



Kz timbre are infamous, name it metallic, steely, yeah there is nothing we cant change much for timbre, do put 3m micropore stripe on nozzle grill maybe help a bit. As fas as i remember KZ7 timbre from what i heard isnt as bad as zs10 pro, but yeah, newer generation have better timbre, like ZSX. Get BLon BL 03 if you want they have great timbre for budget price, or bqeyz kb100 or something else. There are plenty of good iem under $50 currently


----------



## Degru

DynamicEars said:


> Kz timbre are infamous, name it metallic, steely, yeah there is nothing we cant change much for timbre, do put 3m micropore stripe on nozzle grill maybe help a bit. As fas as i remember KZ7 timbre from what i heard isnt as bad as zs10 pro, but yeah, newer generation have better timbre, like ZSX. Get BLon BL 03 if you want they have great timbre for budget price, or bqeyz kb100 or something else. There are plenty of good iem under $50 currently


I think there is actually a small improvement from removing the filter. It's subtle but nice. The actual drivers don't seem to open directly into the nozzle so there isn't as much risk of getting something in them.


----------



## Crandall

Solar1971 said:


> ahhh. I thought those looked like ZSXs. But I don’t remember my ZSX’s having a 12 on the face plate.
> Is that a 12 ?
> Man I must be getting old. If my ZSX have a 12 on the front and I didn’t even notice. Hahahahaha
> Dang now I need to check because I might be going senile. Lololol


There's a "12 Hybrid" on each of the ZSX earphones. I kind of wish there wasn't. It'd look much nicer without text on the faceplate. I want to try removing it with a little bit of acetone, but I don't want to wreck the finish or accidentaly melt some of the plastic housing either.


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> I still love the ZS7



Here here Mr. Panda  KZ has come a long way since my beloved ED9's but to this day they are still some of the best bang for your buck IMHO of any Chi-Fi iem going. This trio makes heavy rotation these days and all can challenge like iem's as much as 3 times there cost


----------



## pauldoni

Anyone still using zs6? I want to ask, how to thighten my female port of dual pin on zs6? Mine was loose , it will loose signal when I move the iem on my ear. I always use 0.75pin for mine. Thx


----------



## Slater

pauldoni said:


> Anyone still using zs6? I want to ask, how to thighten my female port of dual pin on zs6? Mine was loose , it will loose signal when I move the iem on my ear. I always use 0.75pin for mine. Thx



You can just splay the pins of the cable very slightly.

Or you could tin the pins of the cable with a very thin and even coating of solder.

But splaying the pins of the cable is the easiest method.


----------



## pauldoni (Jan 13, 2020)

Slater said:


> You can just splay the pins of the cable very slightly.
> 
> Or you could tin the pins of the cable with a very thin and even coating of solder.
> 
> But splaying the pins of the cable is the easiest method.


Ah I see , but actually I want to sell mine for upgrade.  I already thighten my female zs6 port using pinset,  it grip my cable well , but still loose signal sometimes? Maybe the female port isn't the main issue?


----------



## Slater (Jan 13, 2020)

pauldoni said:


> Ah I see , but actually I want to sell mine for upgrade.  I already thighten my female zs6 port,  it grip my cable well , but still loose signal sometimes? Maybe the female port isn't the main issue?



If it’s gripping it well, then the problem could be something else. It could be that the cable is going bad. You can try a different cable to see if it fixes the problem.

Or it could be that something doesn’t have good connection inside the shell (once you remove the back cover). This is less likely though, and if this was the case it would have acted funny (cutting out) right out of the box from the factory.

It could be something else, like a driver going bad. Which can happen if you dropped the ZS6 against a hard surface like concrete, tile floor, granite countertop, hard table top, etc.

If it was me, I would start with changing the cable. It’s the fastest, simplest, and easiest thing to try.


----------



## Solar1971

Crandall said:


> There's a "12 Hybrid" on each of the ZSX earphones. I kind of wish there wasn't. It'd look much nicer without text on the faceplate. I want to try removing it with a little bit of acetone, but I don't want to wreck the finish or accidentaly melt some of the plastic housing either.



I totally understand what you’re saying, but if it was me, I wouldn’t use acetone. 
Maybe try something milder first. Even just a damp warm cloth with a tiny bit of soap on it.
Just be careful. Good luck


----------



## Nimweth

Solar1971 said:


> wow so you really like the BQEYZ K1. Dang. That’s cool.
> Let me ask you a question please.
> I just received the BQEYZ BQ3. And I like the sound signature of them.
> Slightly V shaped but not too much.
> ...


Yes, BQ3 is great, kind of a toned down ZS7 and a bit more neutral. Great bass too.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Nimweth said:


> Yes, BQ3 is great, kind of a toned down ZS7 and a bit more neutral. Great bass too.


Toned down, but it still sounds better.


----------



## schom

Podster said:


> Here here Mr. Panda  KZ has come a long way since my beloved ED9's but to this day they are still some of the best bang for your buck IMHO of any Chi-Fi iem going. This trio makes heavy rotation these days and all can challenge like iem's as much as 3 times there cost


hello, 
i see you have the ba10. after i try a lot of cables for the ba 10 i go back to the original cable. all the other cables i have tested for the ba10 didn`t fit. s which cable is it on the photo`?
which of this three earphones is the best? and is there a major difference between them?


----------



## Podster

schom said:


> hello,
> i see you have the ba10. after i try a lot of cables for the ba 10 i go back to the original cable. all the other cables i have tested for the ba10 didn`t fit. s which cable is it on the photo`?
> which of this three earphones is the best? and is there a major difference between them?



To break it down in one term each the ZSX is a bass leading party iem for my ears, the ZS7 is a refined ZS6 not far off the ZSX but with a little less of everything but for sure the bass. Now to overall accuracy and timber the BA-10's are a miracle at just $76, if I'm listening to classical our anything with heavy orchestration the BA-10's are worth their weight in gold, nah let's go Plutonium since they are fairly light for much value in gold. Pod does not review nor does he get very technical with his explanation's of sound characteristics on anything, I will say one really can't go wrong with any one of the three I posted here but as said ZSX for me is bass leading (of course that is dependent on whether you get a great seal with the right tips), just like the ZS6 (have the black, gray and red's)  the 7 is very musical, non fatiguing and something to really enjoy for long periods of time. So is the BA-10 but you'll need more juice with them as well cause BA's tend to come into their own with good power and the right amount to bring all those drivers up to their abilities. If my descriptions are not technical enough for you I'd suggest reading reviews of them all by B9 Scrambler or Crabbos over on Prime These fellows really know how to break it down and you can pretty much bank on their impressions As far as the cable I'm running on the BA-10's I bought it on Drop here:
https://drop.com/buy/tripowin-c8-ie...12850.392772239733009252310152&referer=PR3LLV 
You can always request them to run the sale again or just go out and search it on AliEx where several vendors carry it I believe. Not sure if I've been very helpful to you but it's the best I can do, good luck


----------



## schom

Podster said:


> To break it down in one term each the ZSX is a bass leading party iem for my ears, the ZS7 is a refined ZS6 not far off the ZSX but with a little less of everything but for sure the bass. Now to overall accuracy and timber the BA-10's are a miracle at just $76, if I'm listening to classical our anything with heavy orchestration the BA-10's are worth their weight in gold, nah let's go Plutonium since they are fairly light for much value in gold. Pod does not review nor does he get very technical with his explanation's of sound characteristics on anything, I will say one really can't go wrong with any one of the three I posted here but as said ZSX for me is bass leading (of course that is dependent on whether you get a great seal with the right tips), just like the ZS6 (have the black, gray and red's)  the 7 is very musical, non fatiguing and something to really enjoy for long periods of time. So is the BA-10 but you'll need more juice with them as well cause BA's tend to come into their own with good power and the right amount to bring all those drivers up to their abilities. If my descriptions are not technical enough for you I'd suggest reading reviews of them all by B9 Scrambler or Crabbos over on Prime These fellows really know how to break it down and you can pretty much bank on their impressions As far as the cable I'm running on the BA-10's I bought it on Drop here:
> https://drop.com/buy/tripowin-c8-iem-cables?mode=guest_open&utm_campaign=Transactional: Shipping Notification&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Transactional: Shipping Notification&utm_content=1564494212850.392772239733009252310152&referer=PR3LLV
> You can always request them to run the sale again or just go out and search it on AliEx where several vendors carry it I believe. Not sure if I've been very helpful to you but it's the best I can do, good luck



thank you very much for your impressions.


----------



## Podster

schom said:


> thank you very much for your impressions.



Of course, my pleasure


----------



## tomaszffffff

Could anyone confirm that KZ’s foam tips will fit S1D?


----------



## Fuzziekiwi (Jan 16, 2020)

Tonymac136 said:


> I've been using the S1 as my only IEM today. First chance I've had to really bond with it, though at maybe 10 hours it's not fully burned in yet.
> Pros
> 3 hour battery life is pessimistic - I'm losing about 60% in 3 hours
> Super comfortable - I've changed tips to the Chinese Sony Hybrids and the seal is the best I have with any IEM. Wearing them for 3 hours at a time is no issue at all. Any other IEM and I'd have been reaching for a pair of cans after an hour or so.
> ...



How are you liking it so far? I have a ZSN that I've been rocking for over a year now with no issues. Besides the slightly metallic sounding treble, I'm actually enjoying these more than my now broken SE215's. They can be fun with a surprising amount of tracks too. I just ordered the TWS S1, hoping they sound similar and not _too_ bright or anything like the ES4 (which were disappointing and I returned those).


----------



## Tonymac136

Fuzziekiwi said:


> How are you liking it so far? I have a ZSN that I've been rocking for over a year now with no issues. Besides the slightly metallic sounding treble, I'm actually enjoying these more than my now broken SE215's. They can be fun with a surprising amount of tracks too. I just ordered the TWS S1, hoping they sound similar and not _too_ bright or anything like the ES4 (which were disappointing and I returned those).


The steely sounding treble is only an issue to my ears at high volumes when it's starting to get a bit ragged. I'd like a little more volume but it's not super quiet.

It doesn't sound bad with any genre. A touch light in the bass and outright resolution is obviously... Well, it's sub £20 and it's wireless. Stock tips didn't work for me so I've put a pair of... Chibrids? on and they really work well. 

I have a love of cheap beater headphones that don't excel at anything but let you just enjoy the music. These are on a par with my Blon 01 and NiceHCK DB3 for that. Got them in right now listening to Nirvana in fact.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

Tonymac136 said:


> The steely sounding treble is only an issue to my ears at high volumes when it's starting to get a bit ragged. I'd like a little more volume but it's not super quiet.
> 
> It doesn't sound bad with any genre. A touch light in the bass and outright resolution is obviously... Well, it's sub £20 and it's wireless. Stock tips didn't work for me so I've put a pair of... Chibrids? on and they really work well.
> 
> I have a love of cheap beater headphones that don't excel at anything but let you just enjoy the music. These are on a par with my Blon 01 and NiceHCK DB3 for that. Got them in right now listening to Nirvana in fact.



What genres do you listen to? Also, I assume the s1 can only be paired to one device at a time? How is switching between two device? (I have a laptop and my phone.


----------



## Tonymac136

Fuzziekiwi said:


> What genres do you listen to? Also, I assume the s1 can only be paired to one device at a time? How is switching between two device? (I have a laptop and my phone.


Predominantly rock and indie music, but I also listen to a bit of classical, hip hop, jazz. Most stuff really. 
It does only connect to one device at a time but I've just switched from my smartphone to my Fiio X5 fine. Unpaired from one and paired to the other. Interestingly it seems louder paired to my Fiio in Pure Music than it does connected to either the Fiio in Android or the phone.


----------



## Solar1971

I would love to buy a pair of BA10’s. 
But every review that I’ve read says the same thing. 
The shells have sharp angles. and for many people that makes them uncomfortable. 
And whenever I see images of them, I think the same thing “those do not look comfortable”
That’s why I haven’t purchased them. Maybe they will make a new BA10 with a more ergonomic
Shape. More like a hearing aid. I’m crossing my fingers.


----------



## Podster (Jan 16, 2020)

Solar1971 said:


> I would love to buy a pair of BA10’s.
> But every review that I’ve read says the same thing.
> The shells have sharp angles. and for many people that makes them uncomfortable.
> And whenever I see images of them, I think the same thing “those do not look comfortable”
> ...



So here's my take on my BA-10's which I absolutely love. You can see by this photo yes the face plate side of the shells have a sharp surround edge however if you look closely there is no sharp edge on your ear side but mind you they are a very large shell iem, I have large ears and usually use large Auvio tips but because of the shape of this shell and where it hit my ears I decided to cut part of a nozzle sleeve for some tip extension and they absolute work perfect for my ears and for some reason a blue core medium Auvio worked better with these but now they seal great and stay in place mind you I wear mine over ear because as mentioned they are not only large but heavy because of that fact. Not saying or even sure if this would work for you but it solved all mentioned issues for me and they are probably my favorite all BA iem, I've mentioned it before but I prefer them to my HQ-12's.


----------



## Solar1971

Podster said:


> So here's my take on my BA-10's which I absolutely love. You can see by this photo yes the face plate side of the shells have a sharp surround edge however if you look closely there is no sharp edge on your ear side but mind you they are a very large shell iem, I have large ears and usually use large Auvio tips but because of the shape of this shell and where it hit my ears I decided to cut part of a nozzle sleeve for some tip extension and they absolute work perfect for my ears and for some reason a blue core medium Auvio worked better with these but now they seal great and stay in place mind you I wear mine over ear because as mentioned they are not only large but heavy because of that fact. Not saying or even sure if this would work for you but it solved all mentioned issues for me and they are probably my favorite all BA iem, I've mentioned it before but I prefer them to my HQ-12's.



thanks for the info. I would say I have average size ears. I usually use small or medium tips. 
I Would like to use IEMs without having to mod them. I would hate to damage them while attempting to mod them.


----------



## Podster

Solar1971 said:


> thanks for the info. I would say I have average size ears. I usually use small or medium tips.
> I Would like to use IEMs without having to mod them. I would hate to damage them while attempting to mod them.



I understand your concern on mods however my only Mod outside the Tripowin cable was putting on the nozzle sleeve for tip extension which is not really a technical Mod in my opinion. Good luck on whatever you decide


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

de51red said:


> Anyone having both ZS7 & C10 able to share the comparison between those two? I'm itching to get one of them while waiting for my to C16 arrive...




I have both, and have used them to a fair degree.

While they might share similar internals [I think the CA4 might use the same ones as the ZS7, I can't remember], they are tuned very differently.

Starting from the outside, C10 is partially transparent, and comes in decent colours. I think that the aquamarine colour is better than the standard blue colour for the C10. It has a nice, tasteful contoured metal backplate that goes well with the aquamarine. It's surprisingly tasteful and attractive, overall. A little bit, but comfort is _supreme_ for me. Only the BA5 beats it.

ZS-7 is much more awkward in shape, with strange angles and formations. It's 'heavily inspired' by the Campfire Andromeda design, which I am not sure is the most ergonomic. For me, anyway, the housing is huge, and it protrudes. I don't like using it mobile. It is also hard for me to get a great fit with the stock tips, and I had to use huge foams. The ZS-7 comes in cool colours, I got deep blue, it's pretty slick. It's metal and basically feels premium even if the fit is less-than-ideal.

They both have standard boring CCA/KZ tangle cables that have fine sound but are otherwise generic.

Now to talk about the sound: C10 is warm, thick, analog, somewhat acoustic, and somewhat relaxed. The ZS-7 is colourful, supercharged, expansive, detailed, and V-shaped. 

They are very different, despite being relatives. Let me elaborate:

*CCA C10*

C10 is a rare bird in KZ/CCA tunings. It is midcentric, instead of large V-shape. The general sound of the mids comes through very strong, and vocals are even stronger. In fact, vocals are elevated and distinctly clear. C10 is one of the clearest IEMs for vocals in all of cheap Chi-Fi.

C10 has respectable bass, although it is not a bass monster. But it delivers the slam sometimes, and might surprise you.

It doesn't have supercharged treble, there isn't as much sound at the extremes, and there are no piercing highs. It's kind of rolled-off. It's more of a thick, 'medium' sound.


*KZ ZS-7*

The ZS-7 is much more 'colourful' at the high and low-end. Kind of a bass and treble cannon. First off, it's V-shaped, so the mids actually are recessed. People argue about how V-shaped it is, but it definitely is to a degree. This means that not only are mids recessed, but so are many vocals. Fortunately, mids are still clear, so you can still hear them okay.

Meanwhile, the treble is up there, and maybe sugary. It feels like the highs are boosted, without being too piercing. I know the ZS-6 had some highs that some thought were too much, and the ZS-7 was supposed to tone it down a bit.

The lows are great. There's a lot of punch and weight behind them. I think the sub-bass is pretty boosted. So it's going to deliver you a supercharged sound overall. The strong treble and bass interact well, although at the cost of the mids.

People have said it's like 'technicolour for sound,' and that's what I use it for. Some of the albums I like just don't come across as exciting enough on my IEMs, so I use the ZS-7. You use it to 'colour' your music, I think.

And the soundstage is surprisingly effective. Not with every song, but things that are supposed to sound like they are in a big area often do.

So they're very different IMHO. It depends what you are looking-for. All-rounder for long-term relaxed listening and clear vocals? Then you want the C10. Some find the C10's sound to be boring, and it kind of is, especially if you are used to the adrenalized IEMs. But I think it renders things like vocals and acoustic instruments more pleasantly than typical KZs in the sub-50 range. 

And if you're looking for something maybe 'larger than life' to bring out the 'colour' in some of your albums, you can turn to the ZS-7.


----------



## de51red

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I have both, and have used them to a fair degree.
> 
> While they might share similar internals [I think the CA4 might use the same ones as the ZS7, I can't remember], they are tuned very differently.
> 
> ...



Wow surprised you responding to this. Actually I went for the ZS7 but due to sharp edges on the build I had to let it go. Ultimately the only KZ I still keep and enjoy is ZS10 due to its build and engaging sound on contrary to what majority say that is weirdly shaped, sounded unbalanced and bass bloated.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Yeah, the ZS7 has nice sound, but questionable housings. Interesting that you prefer the ZS10, but I have seen some people championing it over the Pro. I have the Pro, and it is fine, one of my mobile IEMs now.


----------



## PhonoPhi

VA


ShakeThoseCans said:


> I have both, and have used them to a fair degree.
> 
> While they might share similar internals [I think the CA4 might use the same ones as the ZS7, I can't remember], they are tuned very differently.
> 
> ...


CA4 and older C04 are two-driver hybrids. CA4 is in between ZSN and ZSN pro in time line and drivers.
C04 is the first CCA IEM with the drivers of KZ ZSA, larger housing and milder V tuning.


----------



## surfacecube

Hello guys, it's been a long time since I came on this thread. Did KZ release anything better than a ZS5 v1 with a comfortable enough housing ?


----------



## Slater (Jan 18, 2020)

surfacecube said:


> Hello guys, it's been a long time since I came on this thread. Did KZ release anything better than a ZS5 v1 with a comfortable enough housing ?



Wow, you’ve missed a lot if the last time you checked in on KZ was the ZS5 v1!

Since then, KZ even formed a 2nd company, called CCA. And between them they’ve probably released ~20 models since the ZS5 v1.

Lots of good releases since the ZS5 v1, depending on what kinda sound or features you’re after. That includes multi-BA hybrids with even more drivers than the ZS5, all-BA models, a few dynamics, etc.

Besides all of post-ZS5 models, they retuned/revised some older models, like a 2nd version of the ZS6, 2nd version of the ZST, 2nd version of the ED9, etc. They’re working on an all-BA with 18 drivers (9 per side).

Although, I must say that the ZS5 v1 is still looked upon by many as a very sought after KZ because it’s so good (with a low resistance upgrade cable, and a source that’s a great impedance match).

I will also mention to be aware of a few trolls that hang around the board, that will be very vocal that ‘all KZs are garbage’ and whatnot. Just use your own brain and your own ears to make your own determination and you’ll be fine.


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> Actually, the best Starlines are the ones from the ZS4 and ZS3E. I’d buy a suitcase full of them if I could find them sold separately.



You can get these Starlines for $17 a pair on Amazon, and they throw in extremely isolating earphones for free!


----------



## Nimweth

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I have both, and have used them to a fair degree.
> 
> While they might share similar internals [I think the CA4 might use the same ones as the ZS7, I can't remember], they are tuned very differently.
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself! BTW, the C10 has 2x50060 and 2x30095 BAs (like the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro), ZS7 has 1x29869, 1x31005 and 2x30095, the same as the BA10.


----------



## surfacecube

Slater said:


> Wow, you’ve missed a lot if the last time you checked in on KZ was the ZS5 v1!
> 
> Since then, KZ even formed a 2nd company, called CCA. And between them they’ve probably released ~20 models since the ZS5 v1.
> 
> ...



Thank you for that detailed post of what happened since !

I'll be sure to check into the offering of CCA, from what I can gather there and there, some of them might be a good fit for me.

I have indeed a lot to catch up, thanks again for being so helpful !


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> Wow, you’ve missed a lot if the last time you checked in on KZ was the ZS5 v1!
> 
> Since then, KZ even formed a 2nd company, called CCA. And between them they’ve probably released ~20 models since the ZS5 v1.
> 
> ...


Hello Slater, I think you are the person who can answer this. Which BAs are used in the BQEYZ BQ3? I've looked on line and can't find any reference to them, just "3BA".


----------



## Detectit (Jan 20, 2020)

surfacecube said:


> Hello guys, it's been a long time since I came on this thread. Did KZ release anything better than a ZS5 v1 with a comfortable enough housing ?



As i speak for myself. I find the ZSX kicking... Sometimes i even prefer them more than the Blon's. But don't shout it out loud... Because Blon fanboys everywhere....
Which it doesn't say the Blon's are bad.. Love them also.


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> Hello Slater, I think you are the person who can answer this. Which BAs are used in the BQEYZ BQ3? I've looked on line and can't find any reference to them, just "3BA".



Unfortunately, I have not been able to figure out anything about them yet.

I've discussed what I know a few times though, so maybe it will be some help in solving the mystery:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1152#post-14427017
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...reference-list.805930/page-1467#post-15378277


----------



## PhonoPhi

Detectit said:


> As i speak for myself. I find the ZSX kicking... Sometimes i even prefer them more than the Blon's. But don't shout it out loud... Because Blon fanboys everywhere....
> Which it doesn't says the Blon's are bad.. Love them also.


I think there is a significant number of opinions that ZSX, C12, V90 win on technicalities over Blon, while Blon may be more musical. Blon and one out of thise three may represent one of the best ~$60 spent on ChiFi.

I do enjoy my Blon. For me C12 is  preferable to Blon, while Blon is close to C10, and then C12  & Blon goes very well for fun & relaxed listening respectively.


----------



## Tonymac136

PhonoPhi said:


> I think there is a significant number of opinions that ZSX, C12, V90 win on technicalities over Blon, while Blon may be more musical. Blon and one out of thise three may represent one of the best ~$60 spent on ChiFi.
> 
> I do enjoy my Blon. For me C12 is  preferable to Blon, while Blon is close to C10, and then C12  & Blon goes very well for fun & relaxed listening respectively.



I concur absolutely. Though I don't have the ZSX, my take on it is that if you can afford two of the IEMs mentioned buy C12 and Blon. If you can only afford one, buy the V90.


----------



## Mouseman

I have 3 of the 4, not the C12. Personally, I pick the ZSX more often. The V90 is nice, but it doesn't have the same level of detail and bass that the ZSX does. I've been trying to listen to it more and it's growing on me, but other than comfort, I don't pick it as much. 

The BLON is nice and musical, but frankly the fit issues are more than a bit irritating.


----------



## Sainev

Hi guys! I'm new here, wanna ask some advice. Got the ZS10 (Non-pro) gifted from my friend, is there anything I can do to make it sound better? Or sell it and get better iem?
Thanks before!


----------



## Detectit (Jan 20, 2020)

Mouseman said:


> I have 3 of the 4, not the C12. Personally, I pick the ZSX more often. The V90 is nice, but it doesn't have the same level of detail and bass that the ZSX does. I've been trying to listen to it more and it's growing on me, but other than comfort, I don't pick it as much.
> 
> The BLON is nice and musical, but frankly the fit issues are more than a bit irritating.



Yeah the fit on Blon oppoty Driams is a thing.... Did you try the KZ star mod? Did it today and it's a lot better. All ready had the "o-ring" mod. Doing both its fine now.



Credits for video goes to someone else.


----------



## mbwilson111

Detectit said:


> Yeah the fit on Blon oppoty Driams is a thing.... Did you try the KZ star mod? Did it today and it's a lot better. All ready had the "o-ring" mod. Doing both its fine now.




Very helpful video.  I use a pair of reversed Starlines on my Moondrop Crescent.


----------



## Mouseman

Detectit said:


> Yeah the fit on Blon oppoty Driams is a thing.... Did you try the KZ star mod? Did it today and it's a lot better. All ready had the "o-ring" mod. Doing both its fine now.
> 
> 
> 
> Credits for video goes to someone else.



I already have the o ring on it, I'll have to try this. Then I'll letitburn. Thanks!


----------



## Tonymac136

Sainev said:


> Hi guys! I'm new here, wanna ask some advice. Got the ZS10 (Non-pro) gifted from my friend, is there anything I can do to make it sound better? Or sell it and get better iem?
> Thanks before!



Listen to it. Work out what you like about it. Work out what you don't like about it. Think about the music you want to listen to and how you want it to sound. Then ask again, also remembering to mention what you use as a source.

The ChiFi world has moved on a lot since the ZS10 and TRN V80. It would be very easy to get a "better" IEM for the money (though please bear in mind you aren't likely to get much for the ZS10). It's getting the one that suits you the most for the budget you have.


----------



## Solar1971

Sainev said:


> Hi guys! I'm new here, wanna ask some advice. Got the ZS10 (Non-pro) gifted from my friend, is there anything I can do to make it sound better? Or sell it and get better iem?
> Thanks before!



What music do you listen to the most?
How much do you have to spend?


----------



## Sainev

Tonymac136 said:


> Listen to it. Work out what you like about it. Work out what you don't like about it. Think about the music you want to listen to and how you want it to sound. Then ask again, also remembering to mention what you use as a source.
> 
> The ChiFi world has moved on a lot since the ZS10 and TRN V80. It would be very easy to get a "better" IEM for the money (though please bear in mind you aren't likely to get much for the ZS10). It's getting the one that suits you the most for the budget you have.



Sorry i forgot to include what i like & don't about this IEM
The things i like is the bass, it's so good imo. and the sound signature is okay for me too. Even though there's a sound that i can barely hear (because of the bass maybe?)

What I don't like is: Fit, I already bought a foam tips (TRN T400) and still doesn't work. so i'm still searching the eartips that suit me, and there's a song that sound weird when I'm using ZS10. Mostly shoegaze, post-rock and melodic song (even my cheap QKZ VK4 can do better) I just want it to sound more balance.
Sadly I'm just using my phone, even though the others said ZS10 sound better with amp

Yup, I'm aware about that. That's why I'm considering to sell it. But if i sell it maybe I'll just get the half price, is it worth? (I get this ZS10 for free though)




Solar1971 said:


> What music do you listen to the most?
> How much do you have to spend?



Mostly I listen to hip-hop, trap, shoegaze and post-rock.
I want to spend on the price range of ZS10p. Do you have any other recommends?


----------



## baskingshark

Sainev said:


> Sorry i forgot to include what i like & don't about this IEM
> The things i like is the bass, it's so good imo. and the sound signature is okay for me too. Even though there's a sound that i can barely hear (because of the bass maybe?)
> 
> What I don't like is: Fit, I already bought a foam tips (TRN T400) and still doesn't work. so i'm still searching the eartips that suit me, and there's a song that sound weird when I'm using ZS10. Mostly shoegaze, post-rock and melodic song (even my cheap QKZ VK4 can do better) I just want it to sound more balance.
> ...




The KZ ZS10 (regular) shell is super huge and not ergonomic for average sized ears. I found that a longer nozzle eartip eg spinfits elevates the shell away from the ears and hence reduces discomfort for longer usage.
But there's definitely better KZs and even better CHIFI that came out recently that have better fit and sound than the ZS10 (regular), and some may be even cheaper to boot, so do explore around if u want something better than it.


----------



## Tonymac136

Similar sound signature with better fit and (not that you asked for it) better timbre, I think the NiceHCK DB3 might be up your street. Bright highs and deep lows. Slightly V shaped but not to the point where the lack of mids annoys me too much. It's also much cheaper. At a similar price to the ZS10PRO, the ZSX and C12 and the TRN V90 are all pretty appealing. I'd not advise the Blon BL03 without amplification though, or the Tin T2 for that matter. The Blon can sound a bit flabby with a smartphone and the Tin just doesn't have enough bass.


----------



## Solar1971

Sainev said:


> Sorry i forgot to include what i like & don't about this IEM
> The things i like is the bass, it's so good imo. and the sound signature is okay for me too. Even though there's a sound that i can barely hear (because of the bass maybe?)
> 
> What I don't like is: Fit, I already bought a foam tips (TRN T400) and still doesn't work. so i'm still searching the eartips that suit me, and there's a song that sound weird when I'm using ZS10. Mostly shoegaze, post-rock and melodic song (even my cheap QKZ VK4 can do better) I just want it to sound more balance.
> ...



KB100 are good for music that needs nice bass.
But also it has a few BA's for vocals and symbols and it sounds very nice.
Also if i recall they were close to 46-48$. A little more then the ZS10 but not too much.
My ZS10 pros were about 31$ So its not that much more and the sound is substantially better in my opinion.
Look at the reviews for the BQEYZ KB100... Even better, the KZ ZSX were only 38$ I think, and they rock !!!
Also the CCA C10 were only 33$ and those are also good for hip hop check all those out.
You cant go wrong.
Enjoy your music!!!


----------



## HungryPanda

I just went for a walk listening to Roger Waters using my Hiby R3 and KZ ZXS and it sounded great.


----------



## Solar1971

always listen to a talking panda. they know things no mortal should know


----------



## mbwilson111

Solar1971 said:


> always listen to a talking panda. they know things no mortal should know



But you have to feed them constantly.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Old school KZ kinda day...


 
Model: RX​


----------



## Detectit (Jan 21, 2020)

In ChiFi things get Old Skool fast. Found these again. Long time not listened to.

They actually still sounds very good... ZS5 V1.


----------



## SiggyFraud (Jan 21, 2020)

Detectit said:


> In ChiFi things get Old Skool fast. Found these again. Long time not listen to.
> 
> They actually still sounds very good... ZS5 V1.


Still have my two pairs, one in the big, fancy box. I'm actually thinking of selling the extra pair, as I don't really feel I need a backup anymore.


----------



## Sainev

baskingshark said:


> The KZ ZS10 (regular) shell is super huge and not ergonomic for average sized ears. I found that a longer nozzle eartip eg spinfits elevates the shell away from the ears and hence reduces discomfort for longer usage.
> But there's definitely better KZs and even better CHIFI that came out recently that have better fit and sound than the ZS10 (regular), and some may be even cheaper to boot, so do explore around if u want something better than it.



Yup i agree about that.. I'm okay with ZS10's sound signature, but sadly the fatigue is too annoying I already explore about it and still deciding about these two: ZSX or C12. what's your opinion about these IEMs? Btw I just have my phone to drive it



Tonymac136 said:


> Similar sound signature with better fit and (not that you asked for it) better timbre, I think the NiceHCK DB3 might be up your street. Bright highs and deep lows. Slightly V shaped but not to the point where the lack of mids annoys me too much. It's also much cheaper. At a similar price to the ZS10PRO, the ZSX and C12 and the TRN V90 are all pretty appealing. I'd not advise the Blon BL03 without amplification though, or the Tin T2 for that matter. The Blon can sound a bit flabby with a smartphone and the Tin just doesn't have enough bass.



I look up about the NiceHCK DB3 review and from what I read, the sound definitely fit me, And most of the review said it's good too! But I already have the ZSTpro and ZSNpro at that price range. Maybe I'll get that later. Thanks for your suggestion tho!
Yup, I'm still deciding what to buy, ZSX or C12. What's your opinion about these two?




Solar1971 said:


> KB100 are good for music that needs nice bass.
> But also it has a few BA's for vocals and symbols and it sounds very nice.
> Also if i recall they were close to 46-48$. A little more then the ZS10 but not too much.
> My ZS10 pros were about 31$ So its not that much more and the sound is substantially better in my opinion.
> ...



Already look at the KB100 reviews! Most reviewer said it's good, and the slight warm definitely fit me. But sadly i can't afford that at the moment thanks for your suggestion!
Yeah! Already look at the review about ZSX, but still deciding what to get, the ZSX or C12. Both of them's so hype here.
From what i read the C10 sound like the ZS10 but more better, but there's C12 so maybe I'll skip the C10.
Thank you!!!


----------



## Tonymac136

@Sainev I've only got the C12. It's very similar to the ZSX (CCA and KZ are the same company). It's leagues ahead of the ZS10.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Sainev said:


> Yup i agree about that.. I'm okay with ZS10's sound signature, but sadly the fatigue is too annoying I already explore about it and still deciding about these two: ZSX or C12. what's your opinion about these IEMs? Btw I just have my phone to drive it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



C10 is nicer in sound (gentle but detailed) and fit (much smaller & easier) than ZS10 (old model), in my opinion.
C10 offers one of the best values for the money together with more expensive (and more advanced C12 and ZSX), I feel.

I love C12! I just got ZSX today and is burning it now; will share photos and impressions.
My humble suggestion is to consider getting C10 for about $23 first, listening to it and deciding where to go further among many great options


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 21, 2020)

Got my ZSX today.



I am very happy that I did (I got C12 first and was not sure about getting a quite similar IEM). I love the shape and design, and quality of implementation!
Fitted a suitably colour/sound-coordinated cable (blue-green-silver to cyan-grey), burning and will compare to C12 and my other IEMs with all the combination of cables


----------



## DynamicEars

PhonoPhi said:


> Got my ZSX today.
> 
> I am very happy that I did (I got C12 first and was not sure about getting a quite similar IEM). I love the shape and design, and quality of implementation!
> Fitted a suitably colour/sound-coordinated cable (blue-green-silver to cyan-grey), burning and will compare to C12 and my other IEMs with all the combination of cables



on your first pic they looked like have matte black cover plate, i thought they come out with new variants LOL. Nice ZSX hold great value for me, they are quite balance and not too shouty, smoother with overall good timbre, excellent technicalities for the price. Definitely best KZ to date for me. Like to hear your impressions about them


----------



## Mellowship

Detectit said:


> In ChiFi things get Old Skool fast. Found these again. Long time not listened to.
> 
> They actually still sounds very good... ZS5 V1.


They are, in my opinion, the best sounding KZ I know of, providing they are connected to a powerful source or amp.
I don't have the very last models following the ZSN, but I doubt they can sound much better than the ZS5v1.


----------



## mbwilson111

Mellowship said:


> They are, in my opinion, the best sounding KZ I know of, providing they are connected to a powerful source or amp.
> I don't have the very last models following the ZSN, but I doubt they can sound much better than the ZS5v1.



I love my ZS5v1 and my ZSNs.  I have not been tempted to buy any of the later KZs. I have ,however gone backwards to track down an ED7...love it.


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I have ,however gone backwards to track down an ED7...love it.



The regular ED7, or the ED7 Mini?


----------



## Detectit (Jan 22, 2020)

Mellowship said:


> They are, in my opinion, the best sounding KZ I know of, providing they are connected to a powerful source or amp.
> I don't have the very last models following the ZSN, but I doubt they can sound much better than the ZS5v1.



I find the ZS5 are laid back sounding smooth compared to my next favorite ZSX.More ideal for DSD track for example lots of details compared to ZS5


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> The regular ED7, or the ED7 Mini?



Regular ED7.  Would love to find a mini just to compare but I have no fit issues with the regular...seems like any other barrel shaped iem to me.  Sadly mine has a mic.  I ordered no mic but it arrived after several weeks of waiting with a mic.  I told the seller and they said theirs all had mics.

Looks like they updated the listing.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ZoonPark®-Headphones-Original-Headphone-Microphone/dp/B01K7B2S6A/ref=sr_1_7

Actually I did need a bit of cushioning so I used Symbios.


----------



## Caipirina

Slater said:


> They’re working on an all-BA with 18 drivers (9 per side).



Is that speculation or you heard some chatter about that? I check their twitter from time to time, no announcements / teasers since Dec 9 (those S1 S1D TWS)


----------



## Slater (Jan 24, 2020)

Caipirina said:


> Is that speculation or you heard some chatter about that? I check their twitter from time to time, no announcements / teasers since Dec 9 (those S1 S1D TWS)



Unless I’m confused, I remember someone KZ posting an official teaser photos of it. If I remember correctly, it was well over a year ago (possibly longer)

I’m pretty sure if you search around the threads you’ll see the photo. I don’t have them readily at my disposal at the moment. If someone knows the photo I’m referring to and can post the photo or a link, I’d appreciate it.

Edit: I haven’t found a photo yet,  it here’s a post from @1clearhead where he got the C18 info directly from CCA themselves:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/page-88#post-15212815

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3046#post-15056179


----------



## Nimweth

After some weeks enjoying my T4, Shuoer Tape and TRN BA5, I dug out my ZSX today and fitted a balanced copper cable. Fed through my Xduoo X20, they sound very good indeed. Timbre definitely improved with the cable, I'm using the supplied non-Starline tips which give a very comfortable fit and seal. I think I'll run with these for a while.


----------



## DynamicEars

Nimweth said:


> After some weeks enjoying my T4, Shuoer Tape and TRN BA5, I dug out my ZSX today and fitted a balanced copper cable. Fed through my Xduoo X20, they sound very good indeed. Timbre definitely improved with the cable, I'm using the supplied non-Starline tips which give a very comfortable fit and seal. I think I'll run with these for a while.



Can't agree more, few months after, i still feel the ZSX is the best KZ to date. Can't wait how they will improve on next IEM


----------



## Nimweth

DynamicEars said:


> Can't agree more, few months after, i still feel the ZSX is the best KZ to date. Can't wait how they will improve on next IEM


Yes, that should be interesting. Been a while since KZ/CCA had a new product. C18 still not made an appearance!


----------



## eeltje (Jan 27, 2020)

i bought kz zsn pro and its very very very good 

im bit deaf but this thing plays at good volume 

greetings


----------



## nicksson

Hey! KZ is dead? It's time to look for something else?


----------



## SomeEntityThing

nicksson said:


> Hey! KZ is dead? It's time to look for something else?


I highly doubt they're completely out, especially since they released TWS stuff fairly recently. If the "Terminator" association with the ZSX means what some of us are thinking, the next products KZ will release probably won't be some hybrid with a lot of BAs. 

Maybe.


----------



## raccoon city

If KZ is dead, it's time for...
Knowledge Zenith: Resurrection!


----------



## eeltje (Jan 30, 2020)

its holliday in china until 2 februari.  bah there website is down    

eeltje


----------



## Odioer

NeonHD said:


> It is pretty anemic in the low frequencies.... that is until you finally ditch the stock cable for a nice quality one. An 8-core copper cable drastically brings out the ****'s deep rumbly sub-bass.


Hi, I have been using the **** for over a month and find the bass to be a bit recessed. Is there any specific cable (trn/kz/others) that is regarded good, also does 16 core means better?
Also I am struggling to get a comfortable fit with the provided tips but cant afford comply, anything worth trying from AliExpress?

Thanks


----------



## baskingshark

Odioer said:


> Hi, I have been using the **** for over a month and find the bass to be a bit recessed. Is there any specific cable (trn/kz/others) that is regarded good, also does 16 core means better?
> Also I am struggling to get a comfortable fit with the provided tips but cant afford comply, anything worth trying from AliExpress?
> 
> Thanks



The **** has actually very good subbass quantity and extension, so I would check if your eartips are getting a good fit before going to cables as the changes are more subtle with cable change than eartip change. A loss of bass is usually down to poor seal/fit of eartip.
The stock eartips on **** isn't the best (especially the red stock flange ones). I'm getting a very good fit with KZ starlines on the ****, but YMMV as we all have different ear anatomies.


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> The **** has actually very good subbass quantity and extension, so I would check if your eartips are getting a good fit before going to cables as the changes are more subtle with cable change than eartip change. A loss of bass is usually down to poor seal/fit of eartip.
> The stock eartips on **** isn't the best (especially the red stock flange ones). I'm getting a very good fit with KZ starlines on the ****, but YMMV as we all have different ear anatomies.


Yes, I suspect the tips are not fitting correctly. I get excellent results on the **** and **** Pro using Spiral Dots.


----------



## NeonHD

Odioer said:


> Hi, I have been using the **** for over a month and find the bass to be a bit recessed. Is there any specific cable (trn/kz/others) that is regarded good, also does 16 core means better?
> Also I am struggling to get a comfortable fit with the provided tips but cant afford comply, anything worth trying from AliExpress?
> 
> Thanks



No, it doesn't matter what cable you use. All of them are good as long as it's not the original one, which sucks and limits the sound quality.

And the same thing applies to the tips. Any eartips are better than the stock ones. Just use whatever extra tips you have from other IEMs. I find that the regular shaped ones (NOT Sony hybrids or KZ starlines) sound the best with the ****.


----------



## carltonh

I had unsubscribed from this website for ~9 months? The KZ ZS10 was my favorite with proper tips in my own ear, even better than ZS10 Pro, but the Blon BL-03 was the very first earphones out of hundreds I've preferred to use with foam tips to top the KZs. So anything new price competitive?

I still prefer the ZS10 for riding on a motorcycle. That's new, as I didn't ride motorcycles 9 months ago.


----------



## zachmal (Jan 31, 2020)

carltonh said:


> I had unsubscribed from this website for ~9 months? The KZ ZS10 was my favorite with proper tips in my own ear, even better than ZS10 Pro, but the Blon BL-03 was the very first earphones out of hundreds I've preferred to use with foam tips to top the KZs. So anything new price competitive?
> 
> I still prefer the ZS10 for riding on a motorcycle. That's new, as I didn't ride motorcycles 9 months ago.



URBANFUN YBF-ISS014 , **** Pro, TRN ST1 (at reduced price of 10 USD extremely competitive), Jadeaudio EA3, TRN BA5, TRN V90, CCA C12, CCA C10, Nicehck DB3


----------



## carltonh

zachmal said:


> URBANFUN YBF-ISS014 , **** Pro, TRN ST1 (at reduced price of 10 USD extremely competitive), Jadeaudio EA3, TRN BA5, TRN V90, CCA C12, CCA C10, Nicehck DB3



I already had the CCA C10 good but not better than ZS10 or ZS10 Pro for me. I also have the **** which I love for its flat response, but isn't great for details, but hadn't heard of a **** Pro yet. Heard of the TRN V90 as not as good as the Blon BL-03, but haven't heard of the others. Thanks!


----------



## zachmal (Jan 31, 2020)

carltonh said:


> I already had the CCA C10 good but not better than ZS10 or ZS10 Pro for me. I also have the **** which I love for its flat response, but isn't great for details, but hadn't heard of a **** Pro yet. Heard of the TRN V90 as not as good as the Blon BL-03, but haven't heard of the others. Thanks!



add the qkv vk4 to the mix, had them forgotten 

that's the trio infernale: TRN ST1, KZ ZSN Pro, QKZ VK4 - regular earphones from the supermarket and the default electronic store don't have a chance with cheap upgrade cables 

(edit: ZSN Pro, there doesn't appear to be a ZST Pro)


----------



## Odioer

Thanks for the Tip advice for ****. I have ordered spinfit cp100's.

I had another offtopic question, I hope someone might be able to help with. I used to have the sony mh1c back in the day and absolutely loved them. I can't find them anywhere in stock for over 2 years now, is there anything that resembles the sound signature. Long term comfort is the only other thing I'd desire. Thanks a lot, and appreciate all your help.


----------



## phower

I am popping in after a long time. Is this the longest thread on head-fi? 49k replies
Still arguing about soundstage, soundstage? 

I am not using my KZs anymore. When outside, it is NC Bluetooth headphones. Comfort over SQ.

At home, it is Philips SHP9500. Nothing else beats the Philips when it comes to so called soundstage.

Don't know what to do with 35+ IEMs


----------



## Solar1971

zachmal said:


> add the qkv vk4 to the mix, had them forgotten
> 
> that's the trio infernale: TRN ST1, KZ ZSN Pro, QKZ VK4 - regular earphones from the supermarket and the default electronic store don't have a chance with cheap upgrade cables
> 
> (edit: ZSN Pro, there doesn't appear to be a ZST Pro)



the ZSN pro are great. And yes there is a ZST pro. I have them. 
they’re good. But not better then the ZSN pro in my opinion. 
have you tried looking on eBay or aliexpress for the ZST pro?


----------



## AU4U (Feb 2, 2020)

phower said:


> I am popping in after a long time. Is this the longest thread on head-fi? 49k replies
> Still arguing about soundstage, soundstage?
> 
> I am not using my KZs anymore. When outside, it is *NC Bluetooth headphones*. Comfort over SQ.
> ...


You should look at the EarStudio ES100 BT receiver.
Move up into the 2.5mm TRRS Balanced cables with the ES100 (Has 3.5mm as well).
https://www.radsone.com/earstudioI have 2 receivers, one for my headphones and the other for my Pioneer DEH-P880PRS head unit.
You wont regret the purchase.
Update the firmware as soon as you receive it if needed.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Solar1971 said:


> the ZSN pro are great. And yes there is a ZST pro. I have them.
> they’re good. But not better then the ZSN pro in my opinion.
> have you tried looking on eBay or aliexpress for the ZST pro?


I'm pretty sure the "pro" version of ZST is just a marketing gimmick. Don't remember anyone ever proving that the purple ones sound any different from the carbons. Also, if it'd be the case, it'd be mentioned on the box.


----------



## Slater

SiggyFraud said:


> I'm pretty sure the "pro" version of ZST is just a marketing gimmick. Don't remember anyone ever proving that the purple ones sound any different from the carbons. Also, if it'd be the case, it'd be mentioned on the box.



Agreed.

It was individual sellers that used the Pro model designation, not KZ. It was proven long ago that the carbon and colorful ZST were 100% the same.

It wasn’t until the ZSN came along that KZ actually had a true ‘Pro’ model that was tuned differently than the non-Pro version.


----------



## Solar1971 (Feb 3, 2020)

I see. I only own the ZST pro. Not the normal ZST.
so I can’t compare the sound.
that sort of sucks that people were selling them under a false name.
When I purchased mine, they were also called KZ ZST Pro.
very dishonest.


----------



## Slater (Feb 2, 2020)

Solar1971 said:


> I see. I only own the ZST pro. Not the normal ZST.
> so I can’t compare the sound.



Don’t worry, there’s nothing to compare. You have the ONLY ZST.

There is only 1 ZST model from KZ, no matter how it’s marketed by a seller. The ZST is available in 2 colors (carbon fiber and purple/blue). Only the color is different.

I will complicate things by mentioning that the ZST *was* retuned by KZ sometime in 2018-2019. So there ARE technically 2 revisions, with v2 having a smoother treble that is not as sharp as v1. There is no way to tell the different versions apart though.

So to summarize, there is a ZST v1 available in carbon fiber and purple/blue. And a ZST v2 also available in carbon fiber and purple/blue. No true ‘Pro’ version of either, and there is no way to tell the difference between v1 and v2.


----------



## SoundChoice

Slater said:


> Don’t worry, there’s nothing to compare. You have the ONLY ZST.
> 
> There is only 1 ZST model from KZ, no matter how it’s marketed by a seller. The ZST is available in 2 colors (carbon fiber and purple/blue). Only the color is different.
> 
> ...



true, but the one that sounds different is gun metal color


----------



## Slater

SoundChoice said:


> true, but the one that sounds different is gun metal color



There is no gun metal ZST. There is one with a black shell and carbon fiber back plate, and one with a transparent blue shell with purplish pink back plate.

Perhaps you’re thinking of the ZSN? It uses the same shell body as the ZST (as does the CCA C10, C12, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro). A few of those have a metal back plate that is gunmetal color.


----------



## Sebulr

Slater said:


> There is no gun metal ZST. There is one with a black shell and carbon fiber back plate, and one with a transparent blue shell with purplish pink back plate.
> 
> Perhaps you’re thinking of the ZSN? It uses the same shell body as the ZST (as does the CCA C10, C12, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro). A few of those have a metal back plate that is gunmetal color.


I think he was referring to the blon bl-03. With his tongue firmly in cheek. That's why I gave it a like. 

I have the carbon black zst. Sounds pretty much the same as my zsn, to me.


----------



## yorosello

What a whack


----------



## Slater

yorosello said:


> What a whack



What is whack? Crack is whack?


----------



## Slater

Does anyone that has the ED12 chime in with your thoughts?

They’re stupid cheap (like $9). They share the same shell as the ZST, so I know they’ll be comfortable.

I don’t expect much, but if they’re at least as decent as the ED9 or EDR1 I’d be ok with it. If not, then I can always use the cool blue and red shells for some donor shells.

Thanks in advance


----------



## HungryPanda (Feb 4, 2020)

I 'm listening to the ED12's now and they are ok,  play a wide genre of music well. Nice design with left earpiece blue plastic and right red underneath the faceplate. Not quite as bass orientated as the ED9.


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> I 'm listening to the ED12's now and they are ok,  play a wide genre of music well. Nice design with left earpiece blue plastic and right red underneath the faceplate. Not quite as bass orientated as the ED9.



OK, thanks for the info.

I’ll give them a try during the next Aliexpress sale. If they’re $9 now, I’ll be able to get them for $6-$7 with coupon. I can’t even buy shells for that price. So even if they suck, I’ll just swap the drivers and perhaps some wooden face plates.


----------



## Ynot1

Anyone tried replacing the original drivers on these, top one is awei ES800M and the bottom one is EDSE. I went in to repair a broken speaker wire. But I suspect it is a broken voice coil wire. And I don't know what to do with those. I was thinking maybe a silver glue or something.


----------



## Podster

KZ Old Skool  





And no my v1 ZS5's are not for sale LOL


----------



## mbwilson111 (Feb 6, 2020)

Slater said:


> OK, thanks for the info.
> 
> I’ll give them a try during the next Aliexpress sale. If they’re $9 now, I’ll be able to get them for $6-$7 with coupon. I can’t even buy shells for that price. So even if they suck, I’ll just swap the drivers and perhaps some wooden face plates.



I bought the ED12 from Amazon UK (Prime) because of this discussion.  I don't know if mine are the only ones (surely not) that have the red shell on the left instead of on the right.   At first I was going to return them because of this... red always equals right  in my mind.  Now I am thinking I will keep them as they are unique and will not get confused with the ones belonging to my husband.   Or, we could mix and match to make a blue pair and a red pair.

I would like to remove the lettering from the face plate of mine... that ED12 on them is just too huge.  I know you have done this with some.  I will try a search.  I don't want to melt or scar them.

Edit:  Using the search function (and finding where they hid the "search this thread" option)   I found this helpful post.... by Slater of course

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2223#post-14296420


----------



## Slater

mbwilson111 said:


> I bought the ED12 from Amazon UK (Prime) because of this discussion.  I don't know if mine are the only ones (surely not) that have the red shell on the left instead of on the right.   At first I was going to return them because of this... red always equals right  in my mind.  Now I am thinking I will keep them as they are unique and will not get confused with the ones belonging to my husband.   Or, we could mix and match to make a blue pair and a red pair.
> 
> I would like to remove the lettering from the face plate of mine... that ED12 on them is just too huge.  I know you have done this with some.  I will try a search.  I don't want to melt or scar them.
> 
> ...



I forgot about that How2 post! Thanks for reminding me. It works great BTW. I’ve done a number of my IEMs using that method.

Here’s the QKZ VK1 for example:


----------



## Podster

HungryPanda said:


> I 'm listening to the ED12's now and they are ok,  play a wide genre of music well. Nice design with left earpiece blue plastic and right red underneath the faceplate. Not quite as bass orientated as the ED9.



I was never that impressed with mine but my 16 year old just loved them  They were easy to gift @ $10





I still say to this day KZ cornered the market on that cable which probably appeared on 10-12 different models


----------



## Mybutthurts

Slater said:


> OK, thanks for the info.
> 
> I’ll give them a try during the next Aliexpress sale. If they’re $9 now, I’ll be able to get them for $6-$7 with coupon. I can’t even buy shells for that price. So even if they suck, I’ll just swap the drivers and perhaps some wooden face plates.



I got a pair of ED12s thinking they maybe a cheap upgrade over the ATEs...wrong.
Bought them along side a Bluetooth cable, and thats how I use them to this day and only when listening to the radio in bed. Fine for that as they comfortably for me. 
But as a daily driver no. They ok for speech etc.


----------



## cleg

My video about S1 and S1D


----------



## DSebastiao (Feb 9, 2020)

Guys, i've been out of this world for a while now, i'm looking to get back into it, is KZ still the best cheap hi-fi earphones? I have the AS10, but i'm looking to get something new, better and with more bass.

Also, are the new TWS any good?


----------



## genck

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i've been out of this world for a while now, i'm looking to get back into it, is KS still the best cheap hi-fi earphones? I have the AS10, but i'm looking to get something new, better and with more bass.
> 
> Also, are the new TWS any good?


TWS is garbage, you asked for my opinion.

Now that we are done with that: You said "KS", I assume you mean KZ. KZ has some nice IEM's out like the ZS10 Pro, ZSX. Check those out if you want to stick to the KZ brand.


----------



## DSebastiao

genck said:


> TWS is garbage, you asked for my opinion.
> 
> Now that we are done with that: You said "KS", I assume you mean KZ. KZ has some nice IEM's out like the ZS10 Pro, ZSX. Check those out if you want to stick to the KZ brand.



Ah yeah sorry, i meant KZ. I saw the ZSX, are they any good? Also, what's different on the ZS10 Pro's compared to the ZS10's?


----------



## PhonoPhi

DSebastiao said:


> Ah yeah sorry, i meant KZ. I saw the ZSX, are they any good? Also, what's different on the ZS10 Pro's compared to the ZS10's?


ZS10 pro is a world of difference from ZS10 (nice fitting, better tuning, though V-like with a bit too cheerful tuning for many).

ZSX is further refinement of ZS10 pro and is, arguably, the best KZ to date and one of the hard to beat price/performance ratio.

CCA C12 is the twin of ZSX with a bit more prominent bass (mid-bass) and a bit more treble.


----------



## DSebastiao

PhonoPhi said:


> ZS10 pro is a world of difference from ZS10 (nice fitting, better tuning, though V-like with a bit too cheerful tuning for many).
> 
> ZSX is further refinement of ZS10 pro and is, arguably, the best KZ to date and one of the hard to beat price/performance ratio.
> 
> CCA C12 is the twin of ZSX with a bit more prominent bass (mid-bass) and a bit more treble.



Thanks, is Tin audio or TRN doing something similar or at this point they're still inferior?


----------



## RikudouGoku

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, is Tin audio or TRN doing something similar or at this point they're still inferior?


Tin Hifi ( they changed their audio into Hifi) is more neutral-bright rather than V-shaped with KZ. Have not heard TRN iems.


----------



## PhonoPhi

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, is Tin audio or TRN doing something similar or at this point they're still inferior?


While their IEMs seem to be competitive by sound,  there are quite a bit of problems with QC.
I personally have problems both with the IEM and cables not to try them further.


----------



## genck

Get the TRN V90, you'll like it. I know many people and most agree on this sound.


----------



## Nene93

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, is Tin audio or TRN doing something similar or at this point they're still inferior?



The V90s are really very good and the BA5s are among the best in their price range.

TRN products are more popular and appreciated today than KZ.


----------



## Mouseman

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, is Tin audio or TRN doing something similar or at this point they're still inferior?


I have the V90 and I prefer the ZSX to it by a lot. Only thing the TRN is better at is comfort, IMHO.


----------



## baskingshark

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i've been out of this world for a while now, i'm looking to get back into it, is KZ still the best cheap hi-fi earphones? I have the AS10, but i'm looking to get something new, better and with more bass.
> 
> Also, are the new TWS any good?



Maybe if you could let us know your answers for these questions, then the community can finetune their recommendations better:
1) What is your preferred sound signature - V shaped, neutral, basshead, treblehead, midcentric etc
2) What is your preferred music genres?
3) Budget?
4) Do u need isolation? - will this set be used at home or on the go?

If from your initial post, u like more bass in a KZ, then maybe u can consider the KZ ZSX (terminator) and KZ ZS10 Pro (the former is a succesor of sorts to the ZS10 Pro and has better timbre and technicalities, though fit may be worse than the ZS10 Pro).

TBH, KZ were the pioneers in the CHIFI game, and they are still one of the better CHIFI below $50 USD, but if you are buying CHIFI around the $100 USD mark, there are better brands out there. KZ lately seems to be pushing their development down the wireless rabbithole, haven't had any wired releases since the KZ ZSX.


----------



## voicemaster

Still enjoying KZ ZSX after all this time.


----------



## DynamicEars

ZSX and V90 are my picks on sub $50 IEM, they performing great both and have very great value. They are side grade to each other, just come down to personal preferences, if you are into V shaped with more sub-mid bass, go for V90, if you like more balance presentation go with ZSX, technicalities are on par more or less. Aside from that on sub $50 you may check on TRN BA5, BLON BL-03, BQEYZ KB100, Jade Audio EA3. I can easily recommend those IEMs and still enjoying them.


----------



## caprimulgus

voicemaster said:


> Still enjoying KZ ZSX after all this time.



Me too! 

Anyone using a balanced cable on their ZSX? Is ZSX actually going to benefit from more power over balanced (using BTR5), or is it really much of a muchness?


----------



## zachmal

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, is Tin audio or TRN doing something similar or at this point they're still inferior?



they're on par or even better (more a matter of taste, thus side-grade, rather than better - but it could be better)

take a look at the TRN V90 (4 BA + DD), BA5 (5 BA-driver), ST1 (DD + BA)


----------



## Nimweth

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i've been out of this world for a while now, i'm looking to get back into it, is KZ still the best cheap hi-fi earphones? I have the AS10, but i'm looking to get something new, better and with more bass.
> 
> Also, are the new TWS any good?


As some others have written, the KZ ZSX and TRN V90 would be good choices, but don't forget the KZ ZS7 as well, superb bass!


----------



## osidovich

The better overall and in terms of neutral sound and better definition between KZ AS06, KZ ZSN and KZ ZS10 Pro?

I already own a KZ ES3 and I'm quite satisfied except for an excessive bright and harsh mid-treble.

I listen primarly metal, EDM, Outrun/Synthwave, Trance, Classical, Rock, Acid Jazz, Fusion on smartphone and PC.


----------



## Mouseman

caprimulgus said:


> Me too!
> 
> Anyone using a balanced cable on their ZSX? Is ZSX actually going to benefit from more power over balanced (using BTR5), or is it really much of a muchness?


I have my ZSXs on balanced from both the ES100 and more often from my R5. I think they benefit from more power, it helps with the soundstage and instrument separation. I can only get to about 40 volume on high gain on the R5, I think high-gain has better dynamics than low-gain. But that's just my take -- I have everything on balanced other than a couple of pairs of hard-wired IEMs and cans that can't do balanced without modification.


----------



## jeromeaparis

osidovich said:


> The better overall and in terms of neutral sound and better definition between KZ AS06, KZ ZSN and KZ ZS10 Pro?
> 
> I already own a KZ ES3 and I'm quite satisfied except for an excessive bright and harsh mid-treble.
> 
> I listen primarly metal, EDM, Outrun/Synthwave, Trance, Classical, Rock, Acid Jazz, Fusion on smartphone and PC.



# For me ES3 is not well tuned, mediums do not sound natural  (ES4 sounds very natural)
# I do have AS10 (all BA) very good overall detailed sound, bass very pure and of good level, trebles a bit low level for me, but probably good for young people
# ZSN very very good for a two drivers. bass has good punch, trebles good, mediums a bit backward but ok
# C12 (nearly idem as ZSX) bass have more punch than AS10. Mediums have a good level, trebles too, lot of details everywhere, the best I have.

I would preffer
AS10 for classical, but very good for everything else
C12 better for electronic music for the punchy bass  and C12 better than ZS10pro and nearly same price.
ZSN best of all at this price, but less details than multi drivers

C12 for all your kinds of music


----------



## Podster

Mouseman said:


> I have my ZSXs on balanced from both the ES100 and more often from my R5. I think they benefit from more power, it helps with the soundstage and instrument separation. I can only get to about 40 volume on high gain on the R5, I think high-gain has better dynamics than low-gain. But that's just my take -- I have everything on balanced other than a couple of pairs of hard-wired IEMs and cans that can't do balanced without modification.



Ditto with the exception I only use mine balanced thru my ES100's and balanced DAP's  Most of my iem's cases have both cables inside them these days at least the ones I deem worthy of having both

@jeromeaparis I like your breakout however mine is with BA10, ZSX and ZS6's! You know we all hear them a little differently but for my ears these three KZ's pretty much match your descriptions verbatim No matter how you look at any of these they all fall under the Affordable Luxury category


----------



## Podster

I might add the ZS7 is not too shabby as well


----------



## jason2087

Hey everyone, I see the last page had multiple similar questions to the one I'm asking but I will post a follow-up. 

I have KZ ZS3's that I got 3-4 years ago. I realize they are dated but for the price I think they were decent V-Shaped. What is the modern KZ or chinese equivalent or better comparable to these? TRN V90  KZ ZSX?


----------



## voicemaster

jason2087 said:


> Hey everyone, I see the last page had multiple similar questions to the one I'm asking but I will post a follow-up.
> 
> I have KZ ZS3's that I got 3-4 years ago. I realize they are dated but for the price I think they were decent V-Shaped. What is the modern KZ or chinese equivalent or better comparable to these? TRN V90  KZ ZSX?


I don't know about V90 as I don't have them, but the ZSX is my favorite KZ. I do have ZS3 and imho the upgrade in sound from ZS3 to ZSX will be huge.


----------



## courierdriver (Feb 12, 2020)

jason2087 said:


> Hey everyone, I see the last page had multiple similar questions to the one I'm asking but I will post a follow-up.
> 
> I have KZ ZS3's that I got 3-4 years ago. I realize they are dated but for the price I think they were decent V-Shaped. What is the modern KZ or chinese equivalent or better comparable to these? TRN V90  KZ ZSX?


Jeez, I don't know about the ZS3 cause I don't own them. But I DO own a set of ZS10 PRO'S, which I absolutely love. I guess it depends on what genres of music you listen to most, how much of a V shape you are looking for, and your budget. ZS10 PRO can be had for around $40 and sound great with all types of music. They are a great sounding daily driver...and they respond well to EQ, if you don't mind going that route. Since you own an Earsonics ES100, you can definitely extract the best out of the ZS10 PRO, based on your preferred sound signature.
Edit: Sorry, I had you confused with another Jason on the Radsone ES100 thread. Maybe you don't have the ES100. If you don't, you should seriously look into getting one. Lol!


----------



## DynamicEars

jason2087 said:


> Hey everyone, I see the last page had multiple similar questions to the one I'm asking but I will post a follow-up.
> 
> I have KZ ZS3's that I got 3-4 years ago. I realize they are dated but for the price I think they were decent V-Shaped. What is the modern KZ or chinese equivalent or better comparable to these? TRN V90  KZ ZSX?



Zsx will be more balanced than V90. If youre looking for v shaped, with recessed mids, boosted sub bass and highs, V90 will suit you more. Both ZsX and V90 will definitely a leap upgrade to your ZS3, more refined sound, smoother and not harsh, better sub bass, better almost in all aspects. ZSX in my opinion is more polished version of ZS10 Pro, sound signature is about the same, but smoother, more mature, more detail, a bit better soundstage and most importantly better timbre from metallic sounding zs10 pro.


----------



## Nimweth (Feb 13, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Zsx will be more balanced than V90. If youre looking for v shaped, with recessed mids, boosted sub bass and highs, V90 will suit you more. Both ZsX and V90 will definitely a leap upgrade to your ZS3, more refined sound, smoother and not harsh, better sub bass, better almost in all aspects. ZSX in my opinion is more polished version of ZS10 Pro, sound signature is about the same, but smoother, more mature, more detail, a bit better soundstage and most importantly better timbre from metallic sounding zs10 pro.


If you like V shaped, ZS7 is excellent, it has superb bass, very good mids courtesy of the 29869 and 31005 BAs and a more relaxed treble than the ZS10 pro. Very bold and exciting tuning. I have recently been listening to them balanced on my Xduoo X20 and they are so musical and entertaining.


----------



## jeromeaparis

jason2087 said:


> Hey everyone, I see the last page had multiple similar questions to the one I'm asking but I will post a follow-up.
> 
> I have KZ ZS3's that I got 3-4 years ago. I realize they are dated but for the price I think they were decent V-Shaped. What is the modern KZ or chinese equivalent or better comparable to these? TRN V90  KZ ZSX?



ZS3 was a cheap post ATE single dynamic driver KZ earphone, I paid it at this time 8$
this was about half the price of the ZST that had one more treble BA driver.

ZS3 has "big bass", warm natural voices, but very few details and no real trebles.
There is a ZS4 that adds a BA for trebles, but is said to be too much V shaped.
I would say ES4 13$ is very well tuned with good bass & trebles and a natural sound
but last 2 drivers ZSN pro 14$ is technicaly better with more punch & details and brighter


----------



## Podster (Feb 13, 2020)

Once again your impression just shows me how we all hear them a little differently as the ZS4 upgrade did just the opposite for me and took the overall signature away from the "V" and the treble extension for my ears actually raised all the mid range floor!  I find them to really be far superior to the 3's. Now they are not only one of the best fitting iem's I own to this day but get up there and rival everything at their price point. Still for the money a killer iem period. And yes of course I realize anyone's MMV  The real kicker for me/mine was going to a good SP Balanced cable, for me my ZS4's can now slay iem's costing up to 4 times their price





Since you are coming off a ZS3 @jason2087 I have to agree with Voicemaster on the ZSX as your next KZ, it will be a big leap but a great leap as well


----------



## Podster

Like the previous setup this one should also be considered "Cheap Phun", no better said "Inexpensive Fun"  Hard to beat a stacked rig for less than a Benjamin including 16 Core Of course no kind of detail machine but with a little Treble and Mid boost it's for sure listenable (the Benjie T6/Xduoo XQ-10 combo really drive the ZST bass to the point it drowns out the higher frequencies unless you tweak/custom EQ the T6 for higher frequency push)


----------



## tinbilly

Anyone know how to pair the left and right earphones of the KZ S1? Mine lost its connection. So I have to reset the earphones, then cannot get them paired to each other.

Many thanks!


----------



## gourab1995

jeromeaparis said:


> ZS3 was a cheap post ATE single dynamic driver KZ earphone, I paid it at this time 8$
> this was about half the price of the ZST that had one more treble BA driver.
> 
> ZS3 has "big bass", warm natural voices, but very few details and no real trebles.
> ...



ZS3 gives me the best isolation on any iem i have right now till date. Sound is pretty good too, But not so technically satifying. Its a fun listen.
ZS7 is warm+detailed, not sharp at all. Great for orchestras. Definitely better with a cable swap.


----------



## fedcas (Feb 17, 2020)

Hello,
posting after a long time. I've been using my KZs mostly with cable, every now and then using a bt receiver. If I'm happy with the IEMs, I can't say the same for the BT receivers. Actually I'm back to ask advice for a couple of problems in particular... I'd be happy to hear your opinions:

*1) *A year or so ago I bought the TRN BT10 as advised here:






Now the battery is died apparently. I get a "battery low" alert after like 1 min of use (even right after a full charge). Is that a common problem?




*2) *Another point: I remember that model was said to be much better than the KZ bt adapter I already had... this one:




One thing I found really annoying on that one was the high level of noise when nothing was playing and that sort of "noise gate" that was putting the amplifier in standby after a few seconds of no audo stream. You could definitely hear the noise and even more annoying was hearing it going on and off following the audio playing or not. Well, the TRN had exactly the same behaviour... is that normal? If so, is there a cheap BT adapter not presenting this issue?


----------



## EdenSJW

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, is Tin audio or TRN doing something similar or at this point they're still inferior?




Tin Hifi lean more towards neutral-bright kind of sound-signature, quite hard to compare with them. TRN is a relatively new company compared to KZ who has been out in the industry longer. TRN is catching up on reputation with more consistency and effort in their newer products.


----------



## rockappalla

hi, I just want to give iems a try, I can get KZ ZST and KZ ZSN for very cheap here in Italy on Amazon, 
which do you suggest? I prefer a more bassy profile and not harsh highs...thanks!!


----------



## Slater

rockappalla said:


> hi, I just want to give iems a try, I can get KZ ZST and KZ ZSN for very cheap here in Italy on Amazon,
> which do you suggest? I prefer a more bassy profile and not harsh highs...thanks!!



As long as the ZST is new stock, it has been reported that it’s been retuned and has much improved improved treble vs the original version. Not sharp or piercing, no sibilance, smoother and more polite.

I haven’t heard it myself though, so I’m just going on the information that has been reported on HeadFi.


----------



## captione

I just wanna say that I'm glad having the ES4 as my first exploration into Chi-fi IEMS. Very balanced at lower volumes, the "girth" of the bass giving enough smooth warmth to every music i give it and it's amazing. Weird new wave inspired math rock really shines through and there's almost no genre that fails to deliver enough musicality. Glad to have it for 8 dollars lol


----------



## Slater (Feb 18, 2020)

captione said:


> I just wanna say that I'm glad having the ES4 as my first exploration into Chi-fi IEMS. Very balanced at lower volumes, the "girth" of the bass giving enough smooth warmth to every music i give it and it's amazing. Weird new wave inspired math rock really shines through and there's almost no genre that fails to deliver enough musicality. Glad to have it for 8 dollars lol



New wave inspired math rock?

I have no clue what that might sound like, but it definitely sounds interesting. Any bands you can recommend?


----------



## captione

Slater said:


> New wave inspired math rock?
> 
> Sounds interesting. Any bands you can recommend?


The Planet The. 
It's currently the only act I know that really does that mish mash of genre blends and I love them to bits. 

This is their second and (I wish it wasn't) last album of theirs. My favourite track is Tennis. 

There's also their bandcamp page which you can download their first album for free


----------



## EdenSJW

rockappalla said:


> hi, I just want to give iems a try, I can get KZ ZST and KZ ZSN for very cheap here in Italy on Amazon,
> which do you suggest? I prefer a more bassy profile and not harsh highs...thanks!!



the zsn is definitely more bassy then zst pro. Would recommend zsn pro if its available for you on your side. Only cost a few bucks more.


----------



## rockappalla

EdenSJW said:


> the zsn is definitely more bassy then zst pro. Would recommend zsn pro if its available for you on your side. Only cost a few bucks more.


Thanks!!


----------



## Redkill3r

Slater said:


> As long as the ZST is new stock, it has been reported that it’s been retuned and has much improved improved treble vs the original version. Not sharp or piercing, no sibilance, smoother and more polite.
> 
> I haven’t heard it myself though, so I’m just going on the information that has been reported on HeadFi.


Yes, it is true. I would suggest both, for the zst i would make flip tips.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> As long as the ZST is new stock, it has been reported that it’s been retuned and has much improved improved treble vs the original version. Not sharp or piercing, no sibilance, smoother and more polite.
> 
> I haven’t heard it myself though, so I’m just going on the information that has been reported on HeadFi.



That would sure be a hard one to verify as I think plenty of resellers have even the old v1 Carbons left in stock as well as the colorful Have they had any design changes at all since the Colorful release that you know of. When I heard of the change I shopped around as I was willing to find out/verify that improvement but all I could see was possible old models even when they posted it was new version


----------



## Slater (Feb 18, 2020)

Podster said:


> That would sure be a hard one to verify as I think plenty of resellers have even the old v1 Carbons left in stock as well as the colorful Have they had any design changes at all since the Colorful release that you know of. When I heard of the change I shopped around as I was willing to find out/verify that improvement but all I could see was possible old models even when they posted it was new version



My guess is the box style could be used to verify if it’s old stock or not. Interested parties should just be able to ask the seller what box they have.

The original ZST came in the black box.

The newer ones come in the white box, but there are 2 versions of the white box. I’m not sure which one is the newest version (I _think_ it’s the one where it looks like a pencil drawing outline of the earphone and not the full color photo, but I’m not 100% sure because I only have the original ZST).


----------



## jeromeaparis

rockappalla said:


> hi, I just want to give iems a try, I can get KZ ZST and KZ ZSN for very cheap here in Italy on Amazon,
> which do you suggest? I prefer a more bassy profile and not harsh highs...thanks!!


ZSN is much better in every way !


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> My guess is the box style could be used to verify if it’s old stock or not. Interested parties should just be able to ask the seller what box they have.
> 
> The original ZST came in the black box.
> 
> The newer ones come in the white box, but there are 2 versions of the white box. I’m not sure which one is the newest version (I _think_ it’s the one where it looks like a pencil drawing outline of the earphone and not the full color photo, but I’m not 100% sure because I only have the original ZST).



I'd say it's the pencil drawing as I waited a while before buying my colorfuls and they came in the white box with color photo of them


----------



## EdenSJW (Feb 18, 2020)

Slater said:


> My guess is the box style could be used to verify if it’s old stock or not. Interested parties should just be able to ask the seller what box they have.
> 
> The original ZST came in the black box.
> 
> The newer ones come in the white box, but there are 2 versions of the white box. I’m not sure which one is the newest version (I _think_ it’s the one where it looks like a pencil drawing outline of the earphone and not the full color photo, but I’m not 100% sure because I only have the original ZST).




The packagings are different. Also, cables that are provided are different. I have the 2nd and 3rd one. The cables provided on the 2nd feels pretty flimsy(black one as shown on packaging box), glad they came up with this on the 3rd


----------



## raccoon city

rockappalla said:


> hi, I just want to give iems a try, I can get KZ ZST and KZ ZSN for very cheap here in Italy on Amazon,
> which do you suggest? I prefer a more bassy profile and not harsh highs...thanks!!


Be on the look out for the KZ ZS7.
It has very good bass without harsh highs.


----------



## Slater

EdenSJW said:


> The packagings are different. Also, cables that are provided are different. I have the 2nd and 3rd one. The cables provided on the 2nd feels pretty flimsy(black one as shown on packaging box), glad they came up with this on the 3rd



Awesome, nice job. The copper braided cable will be the perfect way to verify if you have the newest revision of the ZST.

So since you have the newest ZST (ie 3rd), does it sound like the 2nd one or different?


----------



## EdenSJW

Slater said:


> Awesome, nice job. The copper braided cable will be the perfect way to verify if you have the newest revision of the ZST.
> 
> So since you have the newest ZST (ie 3rd), does it sound like the 2nd one or different?


Haven’t tried them in a while but if my memory serves me well, nope. I believe there were QC issues with the shells itself for the 2nd batch, heard quite a lot Drivers blowing out. 3rd batch they changed the packaging and the cables, most likely fixed the QC issues as well.


----------



## Slater

EdenSJW said:


> Haven’t tried them in a while but if my memory serves me well, nope. I believe there were QC issues with the shells itself for the 2nd batch, heard quite a lot Drivers blowing out. 3rd batch they changed the packaging and the cables, most likely fixed the QC issues as well.



Wow, good to know.

The ZS3 had a bad batch as well, where the drivers would fail. I wonder if the ZST problem occurred at the same time? Maybe both problems originated at whoever was supplying the dynamic drivers to KZ at the time.


----------



## EdenSJW

Slater said:


> Wow, good to know.
> 
> The ZS3 had a bad batch as well, where the drivers would fail. I wonder if the ZST problem occurred at the same time? Maybe both problems originated at whoever was supplying the dynamic drivers to KZ at the time.


Yup! Same for ZSN before they changed the internal packaging as well. ZSN has more in % having defective units. Glad they fixed it.


----------



## peskypesky

captione said:


> The Planet The.
> It's currently the only act I know that really does that mish mash of genre blends and I love them to bits.
> 
> This is their second and (I wish it wasn't) last album of theirs. My favourite track is Tennis.
> ...



I really like that track!!!!!!   Really cool music. Thank you for turning me on to this band.


----------



## captione

peskypesky said:


> I really like that track!!!!!!   Really cool music. Thank you for turning me on to this band.


No probs. I can recommend stuff anytime!


----------



## RomStar

Ok lads, 

Basically back since I have new iem urges again, and I've read a 100 pages already as a bit of home work.

Now do i really need another pair of iems ....well no. But do I really want more, just cuz new stuff is out...hell yea :c

So what's the new Chi-fi Ki king of the hill iem atm? Consensus here says ZSX , but reviews I've looked into suggests Blon Bl03 

I've had Tin2S, Zs5 V1s, Shure 215s and some bass cannon bose , along with the usual chifi 15 odd pairs 

For reference, I did quite like the Swings ie800 or whatever it was , along with zs5 v1 and Tin 2s. Not a fan of darker zs3 back in the day, and had the usual boarsemen and Sonics, zIrcons and more (too many) Kzs. As a side note I didn't try new gen Kzs after zs6 


Basically wanna buy the new King of the hill 50$ iem or under, to use as a spare daily driver. Would prefer something a bit more mid centered, but anything is fine. Just wanna get back to Chifi and appreciate some budget kings


----------



## courierdriver

RomStar said:


> Ok lads,
> 
> Basically back since I have new iem urges again, and I've read a 100 pages already as a bit of home work.
> 
> ...


I have KZ ZS10 PRO, which are my daily drivers. I enjoy them most of my current sets for most music. KZ ZSX is newest for wired iems (they're putting out more true wireless bluetooth sets these days), along with their sister company CCA (which has the C12, a slightly differently tuned version of the ZSX, and said to be more comfortable). I haven't taken the leap to either yet, mostly because I enjoy my ZS10 PRO so much. It all depends on what kind of sound signature you like, and whether they fit well into your ears.


----------



## RomStar

courierdriver said:


> I have KZ ZS10 PRO, which are my daily drivers. I enjoy them most of my current sets for most music. KZ ZSX is newest for wired iems (they're putting out more true wireless bluetooth sets these days), along with their sister company CCA (which has the C12, a slightly differently tuned version of the ZSX, and said to be more comfortable). I haven't taken the leap to either yet, mostly because I enjoy my ZS10 PRO so much. It all depends on what kind of sound signature you like, and whether they fit well into your ears.



Ok I know you addressed the KZ bit which I already touched on a bit myself while ruminating 

So far, I'm thinking between ZSX and Blon BL03. I've seen people describe the blons being fun or Kz esque in terms of the V Sig, but more mature. Just wanted to see if you yourself have any experience with Blons or if anyone wanted to chime in 

I'd be interested in obscure iems as well, or what is generally considered to be the new King of the hill for under 50s, so far I've seen the ZSX and Blons being talked about in that category a fair bit, unless I'm missing another iem 

Lastly, knowing Kz , the differences between 10 pro and ZSX isn't probably even that drastic. Either a small bump in resolution, or better treble taming I'd assume. Or I'm completely wrong here


----------



## baskingshark

RomStar said:


> Ok I know you addressed the KZ bit which I already touched on a bit myself while ruminating
> 
> So far, I'm thinking between ZSX and Blon BL03. I've seen people describe the blons being fun or Kz esque in terms of the V Sig, but more mature. Just wanted to see if you yourself have any experience with Blons or if anyone wanted to chime in
> 
> ...



KZ ZSX has better timbre and slight improvements in technicalities compared to KZ ZS10 Pro. The ZS10 Pro is pretty good but suffers from the famous "KZ metallic" artificial timbre in the treble frequencies for acoustic instruments. For a few bucks more, you should go for the KZ ZSX. Only thing is fit may be an issue with some for the ZSX due to a protruding fin. For existing owners of the ZS10 Pro, that's a more difficult decision whether to get a small upgrade in the ZSX.

Between ZSX and BLON BL-03, they are sort of comparing apples and oranges, as one is a multi BA/hybrid vs single DD, and these transducers have inherent strengths and weaknesses.They are both good bang for buck CHIFI to see what sound signature u like, so if u do have the cash to splash, getting both is an option as they offer different benefits depending on your preferred music genres/sound signature preferences.

At the budget pricelevel, the multi BA/hybrids (eg ZSX) tend to excel at technicalities like instrument separation, clarity, imaging, details, but at the expense of poorer timbre/tonality, compared to the DD type IEMs (eg BLON BL-03), which tend to have better timbre/tonality, but poorer technicalities. So if your music incorporates a lot of acoustic instruments, then go for a DD type set eg BLON BL-03. If u want more technicalities and have more complex instrumentation with competing instrumentation, or if your music has lots of synthetic instruments go for the multi BA/hybrids.

One thing to note is the BLON BL-03's fit is bad (with stock tips) for most westerners due to the short nozzle and most need to resort to longer nozzle eartips eg spinfits or use spacer mods to get a good fit. You can check out more at the dedicated BLON headfi thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blon-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.916702/
But without a good fit, the sound is bad, so be prepared to spend a bit more money to get aftermarket tips +/- aftermarket cables for the BL-03, which will increase its actual price.


----------



## courierdriver

RomStar said:


> Ok I know you addressed the KZ bit which I already touched on a bit myself while ruminating
> 
> So far, I'm thinking between ZSX and Blon BL03. I've seen people describe the blons being fun or Kz esque in terms of the V Sig, but more mature. Just wanted to see if you yourself have any experience with Blons or if anyone wanted to chime in
> 
> ...





RomStar said:


> Ok I know you addressed the KZ bit which I already touched on a bit myself while ruminating
> 
> So far, I'm thinking between ZSX and Blon BL03. I've seen people describe the blons being fun or Kz esque in terms of the V Sig, but more mature. Just wanted to see if you yourself have any experience with Blons or if anyone wanted to chime in
> 
> ...


I was gonna add to my post, but @baskingshark said it before I could. He's 100% correct. I already have 2 DD iems (the Moondrop Kanas PRO and TFZ NO.3...both of which are single dynamic drivers...so I haven't bothered with the BLON BL03, since that would be just more of the same thing, imo). And with the fit issues of the BL03, I didn't see much point in acquiring them, since my KPE and No.3 already fit me quite well. I like the greater detail provided by the hybrids I currently own (10 PRO and Nicehck NX7). I definitely agree with @baskingshark though...if you can spare the cash; it would be worthwhile to get both the ZSX or CCA C12, and the BLON to see what you prefer. You may actually like both, but for different types of music genres.


----------



## chinmie

a better tuned single DD like the Kanas (or a more popular example, the EX1000) can provide small micro details, while i also have heard multi BAs that tuned somewhat warmer than the typical single DDs

haven't heard the ZSX, but for my personal taste, i like the ZS10 Pro's tuning more than the Blon, and prefer the Kanas than both of them


----------



## EdenSJW

RomStar said:


> Ok lads,
> 
> Basically back since I have new iem urges again, and I've read a 100 pages already as a bit of home work.
> 
> ...



ZSX is said to be an improved version of ZS10PRO with better treble response. But some might find the Trebles to be slightly fatiguing. So really depends if you are sensitive or not. If design is a deciding factor, I would suggest ZS10PRO over ZSX.

Don’t have the ZSX personally so I can’t do much of a comparison. But can share a short overview on blon and ZS10PRO

Soundwise, Blon over ZS10PRO since it sounds fuller and have better timbre, bass response on the Blon sounds more organic as compared to ZS10PRO, which sounds a little too rounded. But it might get a little messy on some tracks for Blon. ZS10PRO is more of a all-rounder with better treble response and it’s suitable for all genres.

Fit wise, ZS10PRO, though a little bulkier, it fits better with longer nozzle as compared to blon. Blon is very tip dependent(fit wise&soundwise)and some have fitting issues.


----------



## DynamicEars

if you dont have ZS10 Pro & ZSX, just go for ZSX
if you have ZS10 Pro you may want to go for ZSX for better timbre, smoother sound, a bit updgrade on soundstage, similar lower presentation or just be happy with your ZS10 Pro and save for something else.
if you want other brand, these are my recommendation on $50 budget tier : 
KZ ZSX
TRN V90
CCA C12
BLON BL-03
BQEYZ KB100
Jade Audio EA3

not in particular order btw, they have different pros and cons each, but to others, they are more or less a sidegrade, they are awesome for $50 budget.


----------



## captione

I probably won't jump to the Blon hype. I'm already saving up for FAAEAL Hibiscus and I don't need another poison for my wallet LOL, also the fit would kinda suck for me so that's a pretty instant skip for me. I'll probably just wait for the rumoured new version and see if the shell design changes.


----------



## RomStar

baskingshark said:


> KZ ZSX has better timbre and slight improvements in technicalities compared to KZ ZS10 Pro. The ZS10 Pro is pretty good but suffers from the famous "KZ metallic" artificial timbre in the treble frequencies for acoustic instruments. For a few bucks more, you should go for the KZ ZSX. Only thing is fit may be an issue with some for the ZSX due to a protruding fin. For existing owners of the ZS10 Pro, that's a more difficult decision whether to get a small upgrade in the ZSX.
> 
> Between ZSX and BLON BL-03, they are sort of comparing apples and oranges, as one is a multi BA/hybrid vs single DD, and these transducers have inherent strengths and weaknesses.They are both good bang for buck CHIFI to see what sound signature u like, so if u do have the cash to splash, getting both is an option as they offer different benefits depending on your preferred music genres/sound signature preferences.
> 
> ...


Damn, that's as comprehensive as it gets. Kz it is, I have tons of spare DD iems lying around , I can already hear what it's going to be like, or get an idea. Plus I really wanna try Kz and compare how they've matured in this span of a year or so

Thanks for the reply, now the waiting game begins!


----------



## RomStar

EdenSJW said:


> ZSX is said to be an improved version of ZS10PRO with better treble response. But some might find the Trebles to be slightly fatiguing. So really depends if you are sensitive or not. If design is a deciding factor, I would suggest ZS10PRO over ZSX.
> 
> Don’t have the ZSX personally so I can’t do much of a comparison. But can share a short overview on blon and ZS10PRO
> 
> ...



Pretty much what I expected with the multitude of users reporting the same thing. I was just bit intrigued by the Blon hype, plus i have too many warm sounding iems. Not like Kz is without its faults, but I was thinking Blon was a DD and BA hybrid not a single DD, so I can already tell it might up sounding with fuller body and tonality 

QUOTE="DynamicEars, post: 15476483, member: 507080"]
if you dont have ZS10 Pro & ZSX, just go for ZSX
if you have ZS10 Pro you may want to go for ZSX for better timbre, smoother sound, a bit updgrade on soundstage, similar lower presentation or just be happy with your ZS10 Pro and save for something else.
if you want other brand, these are my recommendation on $50 budget tier :
KZ ZSX
TRN V90
CCA C12
BLON BL-03
BQEYZ KB100
Jade Audio EA3

not in particular order btw, they have different pros and cons each, but to others, they are more or less a sidegrade, they are awesome for $50 budget.
[/QUOTE]

Yea thinking of getting the ZSX then Bqeyz kb100. But I've never heard of Jade Audio, so might peep that as well. Just trying to keep this under $100....Plus a potential Redstone es100 purchase....


Once again do I really need it? No...But do I really ****ing want one...yes  ▪_▪︎


----------



## DynamicEars

RomStar said:


> Pretty much what I expected with the multitude of users reporting the same thing. I was just bit intrigued by the Blon hype, plus i have too many warm sounding iems. Not like Kz is without its faults, but I was thinking Blon was a DD and BA hybrid not a single DD, so I can already tell it might up sounding with fuller body and tonality
> 
> QUOTE="DynamicEars, post: 15476483, member: 507080"]
> if you dont have ZS10 Pro & ZSX, just go for ZSX
> ...



Yea thinking of getting the ZSX then Bqeyz kb100. But I've never heard of Jade Audio, so might peep that as well. Just trying to keep this under $100....Plus a potential Redstone es100 purchase....


Once again do I really need it? No...But do I really ****ing want one...yes  ▪_▪︎
[/QUOTE]

Jade Audio is subsidiary of Fiio, the only below $50 IEM that have Knowles driver inside and they tuned them so well with wide soundstage. The sound is mature compared to average budget chifi


----------



## SiggyFraud

The AUDIOSENSE T180 (PRO) also have the Knowles driver and they're also below $50.


----------



## illumidata

captione said:


> I probably won't jump to the Blon hype. I'm already saving up for FAAEAL Hibiscus and I don't need another poison for my wallet LOL, also the fit would kinda suck for me so that's a pretty instant skip for me. I'll probably just wait for the rumoured new version and see if the shell design changes.



Just so you know: the Faaeals have some inherent issues that are very hard to work around (stabbing mids, driver flex, no treble), and are prone to spontaneous combustion.


----------



## RikudouGoku

illumidata said:


> Just so you know: the Faaeals have some inherent issues that are very hard to work around (stabbing mids, driver flex, no treble), and are prone to spontaneous combustion.


What, I sure hope they didn't explode in your ear.... Or damaged anything important...


----------



## baskingshark (Feb 20, 2020)

illumidata said:


> Just so you know: the Faaeals have some inherent issues that are very hard to work around (stabbing mids, driver flex, no treble), and are prone to spontaneous combustion.





RikudouGoku said:


> What, I sure hope they didn't explode in your ear.... Or damaged anything important...




This gives the term "burn in" a new meaning. Now, who here doesn't believe in burning in their IEMs???


----------



## illumidata

RikudouGoku said:


> What, I sure hope they didn't explode in your ear.... Or damaged anything important...


Thank you for your concern. No to both, and the only thing that was in danger of being damaged was my hearing if I’d continued using them.


----------



## captione

illumidata said:


> Just so you know: the Faaeals have some inherent issues that are very hard to work around (stabbing mids, driver flex, no treble), and are prone to spontaneous combustion.


WOAH. That is some nasty combustion! Can I get a full story on why did that happen? I might really refrain on buying them (I'd probably just buy the cable instead...)


----------



## illumidata

captione said:


> WOAH. That is some nasty combustion! Can I get a full story on why did that happen? I might really refrain on buying them (I'd probably just buy the cable instead...)


The full story is it wasn't really spontaneous, but it was as a result of burn-in.


baskingshark said:


> This gives the term "burn in" a new meaning. Now, who here doesn't believe in burning in their IEMs???


Sometimes you have to go to extremes to get the sound you want from an earphone! In this case the sound I wanted was silence.

Their cable is indeed excellent but there are better single DD options available than Hibiscuses (Dunu dm-480s, KBear Diamonds and Moondrop Starfields are all better tuned, and well spoken of).


----------



## captione

illumidata said:


> The full story is it wasn't really spontaneous, but it was as a result of burn-in.
> 
> Sometimes you have to go to extremes to get the sound you want from an earphone! In this case the sound I wanted was silence.
> 
> Their cable is indeed excellent but there are better single DD options available than Hibiscuses (Dunu dm-480s, KBear Diamonds and Moondrop Starfields are all better tuned, and well spoken of).


Oh so that's why. I'm not really a firm believer of burn-ins, I won't fully benefit from it either. My ES4 sounded great just by changing the crappy tips with wide bore Tenmaks and literally just lowering the volume. 

After seeing various reviews, the freq graph for them is what I'm looking for, at least. 

So I think I'll still try it LOL, but I'll post a review, or maybe post in the other IEM thread to fully detail my experience from it. Maybe, even burning them in for the first time and see what dark magic will happen! All in all, it's pretty interesting to observe.


----------



## Nimweth (Feb 20, 2020)

RomStar said:


> Ok lads,
> 
> Basically back since I have new iem urges again, and I've read a 100 pages already as a bit of home work.
> 
> ...


ZSX is very good but quite large. If you like mid centric you could do worse than the TRN BA5, an all BA design with a well balanced sound. It is also very comfortable.


----------



## DynamicEars

SiggyFraud said:


> The AUDIOSENSE T180 (PRO) also have the Knowles driver and they're also below $50.



oh right, forgot about that!



illumidata said:


> Just so you know: the Faaeals have some inherent issues that are very hard to work around (stabbing mids, driver flex, no treble), and are prone to spontaneous combustion.



Wow dude.. nasty. Yeah Faaeal hibiscus arent so good on reviews, they have great cable though.


----------



## captione

DynamicEars said:


> oh right, forgot about that!
> 
> 
> 
> Wow dude.. nasty. Yeah Faaeal hibiscus arent so good on reviews, they have great cable though.


They're okay-to-decent on most reviews to be fair. But if that has the inherent flaw in some units then I'm glad to be buying this at basically half the price (33 usd on Fengru + potential vouchers vs 69 usd at Linsoul). I prefer a smooth listening with mid-centricity, and the graph shows basically that.


----------



## RomStar

Don't let this distract us from the fact that my local electronics store tried selling me Airpods as "high fidelity audio pods, with advanced drivers", when i went buying for some cables.

Some say he is still comparing Airpods gen 1 at my local jbHiFi to Audio64 iems.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Feb 20, 2020)

illumidata said:


> Thank you for your concern. No to both, and the only thing that was in danger of being damaged was my hearing if I’d continued using them.


You got refunded right? Because something like that is more than just a qc problem.

Edit: And it is also unacceptable, it's not like it has a battery in it so something like the Samsung galaxy note 7 shouldn't be possible to happen.


----------



## SoundChoice

illumidata said:


> Just so you know: the Faaeals have some inherent issues that are very hard to work around (stabbing mids, driver flex, no treble), and are prone to spontaneous combustion.



Some people prefer their sound signature warm.


----------



## caprimulgus

RomStar said:


> So far, I'm thinking between ZSX and Blon BL03.



I bought both. I personally prefer the ZSX.

I listen to mostly hip-hop and pop music (and other electronic styles of music), so I guess the better technicalities of the ZSX are more suited for that. If you listen to more acoustic music, then Blon might suit better.

I kind of regret not buying the V90 instead of the Blon, as I think that would suit me better. But I do still like the Blons.


----------



## baskingshark

SoundChoice said:


> Some people prefer their sound signature warm.



The BLON cult's box itself says* "Let Music Burn"*
So we all better follow the BLON cult leader's advise in burning in our IEMs.


----------



## Keputs

voicemaster said:


> Still enjoying KZ ZSX after all this time.


I know there may be better iems than the zsx at the same price point but after giving it a go, I'm sold and I've stopped looking at other stuff. I even gave up on head-fi for a while. The zsx may not be the best but it suits me just fine.


----------



## raccoon city

I also like the KZ ZS*X*, where *X*=7.


----------



## Zerohour88

I've been away from KZ since it seems no news of any release (maybe due to the current epidemic, who knows), but couldn't help sharing what I saw from the PV of a song from a Japanese band:

King Gnu - Hakujitsu

I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's the KZ AS06?


----------



## captione

Zerohour88 said:


> I've been away from KZ since it seems no news of any release (maybe due to the current epidemic, who knows), but couldn't help sharing what I saw from the PV of a song from a Japanese band:
> 
> King Gnu - Hakujitsu
> 
> I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's the KZ AS06?



Yep, that's an AS06 alright. 
I saw a band also using KZ ZS10 for actual monitoring too. Chi-fi has come a long way


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So I been out a minute. Is there anything that would be considered an upgrade from the ZSX? How about a full-size equivalent? My eyes are on the Philips X2HR since they're pretty cheap on Amazon currently.


----------



## HungryPanda

X2HR are great headphones


----------



## Slater

HungryPanda said:


> X2HR are great headphones



Agreed 100%!


----------



## Crandall

Slater said:


> I made up a little graphic to show the difference between the different types of KZ cables, since a lot of people are confused on this.
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to use the image when/where/how you want.


Paragraph A will fit Moondrop Kanas/KXXS/Starfield, right? Planning on using the Starfield stock cable with my ZS7 and my current ZS7 upgrade cable with the Starfield.


----------



## Slater

Crandall said:


> Paragraph A will fit Moondrop Kanas/KXXS/Starfield, right? Planning on using the Starfield stock cable with my ZS7 and my current ZS7 upgrade cable with the Starfield.



Unfortunately, I don’t know. I don’t own any Kanas products.

I’m sure someone else will know


----------



## captione

Most of KZ 2-pins are 0.75mm, while IEMS like the Kanas or any of its variants are using slightly big 0.78mm pins. You could probably try fitting them but you should know this beforehand when trying to "experimentally" put a cable.


----------



## edoin

Crandall said:


> Paragraph A will fit Moondrop Kanas/KXXS/Starfield, right? Planning on using the Starfield stock cable with my ZS7 and my current ZS7 upgrade cable with the Starfield.




Yes it will fit but be warned! KZ pins are .75 while the standard 2 pins are .78. Once you plug it in you can't use the .75 pins anymore, it'll just fall off as it will loosen the terminals.


----------



## Crandall

edoin said:


> Yes it will fit but be warned! KZ pins are .75 while the standard 2 pins are .78. Once you plug it in you can't use the .75 pins anymore, it'll just fall off as it will loosen the terminals.



I guess I just got lucky then. I was using a .78 cable with my ZS7, and I just put my stock .75 cable back on it. It's holding fine with no issues. That said, this is the first time I've ever unplugged the .78 cable so maybe it's the repeated plugging that loosens it.


----------



## mbwilson111

Crandall said:


> I guess I just got lucky then. I was using a .78 cable with my ZS7, and I just put my stock .75 cable back on it. It's holding fine with no issues. That said, this is the first time I've ever unplugged the .78 cable so maybe it's the repeated plugging that loosens it.



When you think about those measurements for those pin sizes you realize that the difference is minimal.  Anyway, is it really possible that they are EXACTLY  those measurements.  I use them interchangeably, although once I have selected my final cable for an IEM I stick with it.  Surely repeated plugging and unplugging is stressful for any connectors.


----------



## courierdriver

Crandall said:


> I guess I just got lucky then. I was using a .78 cable with my ZS7, and I just put my stock .75 cable back on it. It's holding fine with no issues. That said, this is the first time I've ever unplugged the .78 cable so maybe it's the repeated plugging that loosens it.


Yes, I agree. I'm the same way, as once I select a cable, it stays on that set for a long time. Repetitive unplugging and plugging will cause the tiny sockets in the iems and the pins on the cable to wear down. People need to realize that these small devices are NOT as big or robustly built as the terminals of full sized home audio gear, such as amps, preamps, speakers, etc. Just because an iem manufacturer gives the consumer the ability to replace the cable, doesn't mean that their product was ever designed to to accommodate multiple cable swaps. I'm sure most would say that the option is included because cables can sometimes break or fail, so designing an iem with a removable cable makes sense so as to let the customer to continue enjoying their purchase once the cable wears out. I highly doubt that any iem with removable cables was ever designed to accommodate frequent and multiple connections and disconnection.


----------



## DynamicEars

Crandall said:


> Paragraph A will fit Moondrop Kanas/KXXS/Starfield, right? Planning on using the Starfield stock cable with my ZS7 and my current ZS7 upgrade cable with the Starfield.



A and B will do, with para A will be more flexible, but para B will be early curl to your upper ear, its just matter of comfort. and about 0.75 and 0.78mm you dont have to worry , like others said differences is very minimal, i doubt even the connector they build is very precision to that size. its KZ not Mercedes. I've been switching cable both 0.75 and 0.78 and didnt experience any loose issue to date


----------



## Caipirina

Just sharing


----------



## RikudouGoku

Caipirina said:


> Just sharing


No info on new iems? Hmmm wonder what secret wallet weapons they are making.


----------



## Makahl

RikudouGoku said:


> No info on new iems? Hmmm wonder what secret wallet weapons they are making.



https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2

I think their focus will be more TWS than wired stuff.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Makahl said:


> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2
> 
> I think their focus will be more TWS than wired stuff.


Oh that's a new tws, but yeah looks like they are focusing on tws/wireless than wired. Kinda sad because I started my chifi journey with kz


----------



## DynamicEars

I also wonder what they can give us after "almost perfect budget" ZSX after so many little improvements over tons of products. Seriously i found nothing wrong in ZSX. They finally have good timbre, balanced signature, no peaks on high mids, no mid bass bleed, wide soundstage and great separation. maybe they just need "Refinement" to make new their IEM sounded more mature, smoother. I guess they really did great job on making and tuning the ZSX, the rest is just limitation of the driver themselves. As per KZ TWS i wont jump so soon since TWS world is still evolving and competition is very tight, like we got new TWS model (from lot of brands, including new brands that suddenly appear out of water) every 2 weeks, thats crazy. I'm waiting a great TWS that sounded maybe like ZSX or BL-03 level at least.


----------



## Veyska (Feb 27, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> I also wonder what they can give us after "almost perfect budget" ZSX after so many little improvements over tons of products. Seriously i found nothing wrong in ZSX. They finally have good timbre, balanced signature, no peaks on high mids, no mid bass bleed, wide soundstage and great separation. maybe they just need "Refinement" to make new their IEM sounded more mature, smoother. I guess they really did great job on making and tuning the ZSX, the rest is just limitation of the driver themselves. As per KZ TWS i wont jump so soon since TWS world is still evolving and competition is very tight, like we got new TWS model (from lot of brands, including new brands that suddenly appear out of water) every 2 weeks, thats crazy. I'm waiting a great TWS that sounded maybe like ZSX or BL-03 level at least.


Alternate tunings and/or driver configs?  More Pro versions of stuff?    I'd kinda' like a multi-BA IEM to play around with but all KZ's stuff is the big semi-circle format and I've not had a chance to see how well that would fit (plus they're mostly BA spam with higher price tags)...

(Pre-emptive edit - Yes I know other brands have multi-BAs.  At the moment I'm not itchy enough to jump, just window-shop.   )


----------



## Caipirina

Makahl said:


> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2
> 
> I think their focus will be more TWS than wired stuff.


Great Find! That's not even on KZ's twitter yet ... looks nice, but also a bit 'more of the same', like a less-cheap looking S1


----------



## Caipirina

RikudouGoku said:


> Oh that's a new tws, but yeah looks like they are focusing on tws/wireless than wired. Kinda sad because I started my chifi journey with kz



Similar here, first brush was actually this article on Wired (which mentions a now defunct or mis-linked head-fi review of the Mrice 100), then somehow I got the Soundmagic E10 (also being pointed by the seller to all the good stuff being said on head-fi) and then somehow there was talk about the magical KZ ... and it was probably the name that first brushed me the wrong way (it is short, in German, for concentration camp!) ... but eventually I got my first pair and was ... less enthused ... because back then I though good audio means tons of BASS! ... so, I learned over the years to appreciate the nuances ... 

Now I have an embarrassing amount of hard-wired, plug-wired and TWS style KZ buds, wayyyy tooo many ... still chasing those bamboo ones though 

Ordered the last 3 TWS the moment they were announced ... and guess will do so with the S2 ...


----------



## mbwilson111

Caipirina said:


> Now I have an embarrassing amount of hard-wired, plug-wired and TWS style KZ buds, wayyyy tooo many ... still chasing those bamboo ones though



Do you mean these?  I bought a pair in September from this seller.  I love them but some people find them big.   Ships from China I think so it seems like they could ship to you.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01K7B2S9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## captione

I might buy my first TWS with KZ's new S1s. They look pretty promising. Looks sleek as hell too.


----------



## DynamicEars

captione said:


> I might buy my first TWS with KZ's new S1s. They look pretty promising. Looks sleek as hell too.



if you are willing to wait, S2 is near the corner


----------



## Aparker2005

This probably isn't the place to do this, but anyone interested in trading their as16 for my zs10 pros? They're in perfect shape, but the as16 just fit my ear much better. 

Located in the US if anyone in the US wants to do a trade. If this isn't allowed please delete. Thank you!


----------



## captione

Welp. My ZS3 broke, they were only 2 months old. The connection on my right piece keeps losing everytime I moved, I rarely used them (because I *love earbuds more *lol) and just when I had a perfect fit on my ears.

This is what I really hate about KZ, the QC really sucks but I can't expect that much for a budget model, I might buy a pair again, I just love the bass texture and the balance of every spectrum and it's a beast once you get a good fit in the ear.


----------



## genck

captione said:


> Welp. My ZS3 broke, they were only 2 months old. The connection on my right piece keeps losing everytime I moved, I rarely used them (because I *love earbuds more *lol) and just when I had a perfect fit on my ears.
> 
> This is what I really hate about KZ, the QC really sucks but I can't expect that much for a budget model, I might buy a pair again, I just love the bass texture and the balance of every spectrum and it's a beast once you get a good fit in the ear.


Are you sure it's not the cable?


----------



## captione

genck said:


> Are you sure it's not the cable?


I'm pretty sure it's the female connector to the right side. I tried plugging it to another iem that can connect to the A-type cable and it works perfectly.


----------



## genck

captione said:


> I'm pretty sure it's the female connector to the right side. I tried plugging it to another iem that can connect to the A-type cable and it works perfectly.


Try cleaning the pins using something like contact cleaner, residue build up can cause connection issues.


----------



## khighly

Got the TRN V90 and they're not so different of a sound signature from the ZSX, though I think the V90 is slightly more sibilant up in the female vocal ranges. ZSX edges out on soundstage. A/B I think the ZSX is more forward with better clarity and also extends higher while still being controlled. V90 more flat with slightly better mids. Both sound miles better than my iBasso. Comfort & Isolation about the same. Both are great, but probably going to stick with ZSX.


----------



## zachmal

khighly said:


> Got the TRN V90 and they're not so different of a sound signature from the ZSX, though I think the V90 is slightly more sibilant up in the female vocal ranges. ZSX edges out on soundstage. A/B I think the ZSX is more forward with better clarity and also extends higher while still being controlled. V90 more flat with slightly better mids. Both sound miles better than my iBasso. Comfort & Isolation about the same. Both are great, but probably going to stick with ZSX.



how is the fatigue for longer listening between both ?


----------



## genck

zachmal said:


> how is the fatigue for longer listening between both ?


I think the V90 has super annoying peaks at 10KHz, it seems like most people don't notice this. I have to EQ it down, it drives me crazy. I don't have the ZSX but the ZS10 Pro doesn't have this issue.


----------



## captione

genck said:


> Try cleaning the pins using something like contact cleaner, residue build up can cause connection issues.


I might do that later, although take note that I rarely used it. Really hoping that it's just residue lol. 


khighly said:


> Got the TRN V90 and they're not so different of a sound signature from the ZSX, though I think the V90 is slightly more sibilant up in the female vocal ranges. ZSX edges out on soundstage. A/B I think the ZSX is more forward with better clarity and also extends higher while still being controlled. V90 more flat with slightly better mids. Both sound miles better than my iBasso. Comfort & Isolation about the same. Both are great, but probably going to stick with ZSX.


Have you tried comparing it to CCA C12? It's honestly on my buylist, but I'm pretty torn between it and ZS10 Pro or ZSX. I just wanna complete my hybrid collection and I want something that isn't too much on the bass and too hot for the highs.


----------



## caprimulgus

khighly said:


> Got the TRN V90 and they're not so different of a sound signature from the ZSX, though I think the V90 is slightly more sibilant up in the female vocal ranges. ZSX edges out on soundstage. A/B I think the ZSX is more forward with better clarity and also extends higher while still being controlled. V90 more flat with slightly better mids. Both sound miles better than my iBasso. Comfort & Isolation about the same. Both are great, but probably going to stick with ZSX.



How does the bass compare? (Quality and quantity)


----------



## Slater

captione said:


> I'm pretty sure it's the female connector to the right side. I tried plugging it to another iem that can connect to the A-type cable and it works perfectly.



Try gently splaying the pins on the 2-pin cable a very small amount. It will make better contact with the female socket in the ZS3.


----------



## captione

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try them out.


----------



## khighly

caprimulgus said:


> How does the bass compare? (Quality and quantity)



Pretty much exactly the same. Both can reproduce very low and are detailed.


----------



## Nimweth

zachmal said:


> add the qkv vk4 to the mix, had them forgotten
> 
> that's the trio infernale: TRN ST1, KZ ZSN Pro, QKZ VK4 - regular earphones from the supermarket and the default electronic store don't have a chance with cheap upgrade cables
> 
> (edit: ZSN Pro, there doesn't appear to be a ZST Pro)


I have the ST1 coming soon. What do you think of it?


----------



## blade74 (Mar 12, 2020)

illumidata said:


> Just so you know: the Faaeals have some inherent issues that are very hard to work around (stabbing mids, driver flex, no treble), and are prone to spontaneous combustion.


I’m assuming you took to them with a blow torch.
I actually don’t mind my hibiscus. They fit really well and have a different sound that’s different to many of my other iems. Treble is a bit less intense and are very relaxing to listen to. A bit more mids and bass orientated. I don’t find the mids stabbing.
I actually pick them up before my BA5s. Go figure!


----------



## illumidata

blade74 said:


> I’m assuming you took to them with a blow torch.
> I actually don’t mind my hibiscus. They fit really well and have a different sound that’s different to many of my other iems. Treble is a bit less intense and are very relaxing to listen to. A bit more mids and bass orientated. I don’t find the mids stabbing.
> I actually pick them up before my BA5s. Go figure!


Ya got me 
I probably just got a defective set. Or defective hearing.


----------



## blade74 (Mar 13, 2020)

illumidata said:


> Ya got me
> I probably just got a defective set. Or defective hearing.


whatever eases the pain of buying a set of iems you don’t like


----------



## captione

Yeah, it's a pretty nasty blowup nonetheless. Still getting my pair at the end of Summer


----------



## ChristianM

I HAD KZ ZS10 Pro and sold it couple of months ago for some reason, I have KZ ZSN Pro that I bought before ZS10 Pro, did not use it much because of harsh treble, I start using ZSN Pro now and don't know how it sound much better than before.
I liked the bass of ZS10 pro but ZSN Pro have more details than ZS10 pro (surely because of elevated highs) but still little bit sharp/tiny.
everybody says ZSX have elevated treble and have bass like ZS10 Pro, so I wonder if ZSX have bass like ZS10 Pro and treble like ZSN Pro (but not sharp or tiny)?
Anyone have all three and can help me decide 'cuz I'm planning to buy ZSX or ZS10 Pro again?
Thanks


----------



## DynamicEars

ChristianM said:


> I HAD KZ ZS10 Pro and sold it couple of months ago for some reason, I have KZ ZSN Pro that I bought before ZS10 Pro, did not use it much because of harsh treble, I start using ZSN Pro now and don't know how it sound much better than before.
> I liked the bass of ZS10 pro but ZSN Pro have more details than ZS10 pro (surely because of elevated highs) but still little bit sharp/tiny.
> everybody says ZSX have elevated treble and have bass like ZS10 Pro, so I wonder if ZSX have bass like ZS10 Pro and treble like ZSN Pro (but not sharp or tiny)?
> Anyone have all three and can help me decide 'cuz I'm planning to buy ZSX or ZS10 Pro again?
> Thanks


 I have them all, ZSX is the best obviously with better tonality and timbre, less harsh, more separation better soundstage and imaging, better details. However I found zs10 pro is more detail than zsn pro, zsn pro is more boosted on high mids that perceive more clarity and fake details but its more shouty. ZSX have more real details than both, basically better in every aspect. And zsx isnt have elevated trebles like zs10 pro, they are more polite trebles, more relaxed.


----------



## ChristianM

Thank you DynamicEars for quick reply. yeah zs10 pro had details, I sold zs10 pro couple of months ago and start using zsn pro after few months maybe that's the reason I don't remember the difference now. I think I'll go for ZSX. thanks again for reply. 
by the way you got a big collection, what's your favorite?


----------



## axhng

ChristianM said:


> I HAD KZ ZS10 Pro and sold it couple of months ago for some reason, I have KZ ZSN Pro that I bought before ZS10 Pro, did not use it much because of harsh treble, I start using ZSN Pro now and don't know how it sound much better than before.
> I liked the bass of ZS10 pro but ZSN Pro have more details than ZS10 pro (surely because of elevated highs) but still little bit sharp/tiny.
> everybody says ZSX have elevated treble and have bass like ZS10 Pro, so I wonder if ZSX have bass like ZS10 Pro and treble like ZSN Pro (but not sharp or tiny)?
> Anyone have all three and can help me decide 'cuz I'm planning to buy ZSX or ZS10 Pro again?
> Thanks









Second DynamicEars's comment on these too. I had all 3 of them at some point in time, but eventually passed them to my friends since I don't use them much anymore. I found the ZSX to be nicest out of the lot. To me I also found that the treble on the ZSX isn't as metallic sounding or as fatiguing as the other 2.


----------



## ChristianM

thanks *axhng *for reply, which one do you use that's better than these KZs? 
I'm just concern about the size of zsx, it's definitely bigger than both, zs10 pro and zsn pro was/is fairly comfortable for me don't know how's zsx will fit.


----------



## DynamicEars

ChristianM said:


> Thank you DynamicEars for quick reply. yeah zs10 pro had details, I sold zs10 pro couple of months ago and start using zsn pro after few months maybe that's the reason I don't remember the difference now. I think I'll go for ZSX. thanks again for reply.
> by the way you got a big collection, what's your favorite?





axhng said:


> Second DynamicEars's comment on these too. I had all 3 of them at some point in time, but eventually passed them to my friends since I don't use them much anymore. I found the ZSX to be nicest out of the lot. To me I also found that the treble on the ZSX isn't as metallic sounding or as fatiguing as the other 2.





ChristianM said:


> thanks *axhng *for reply, which one do you use that's better than these KZs?
> I'm just concern about the size of zsx, it's definitely bigger than both, zs10 pro and zsn pro was/is fairly comfortable for me don't know how's zsx will fit.



yes as @axhng also mentioned, the better timbre i said before means the ZSX is maybe 1 of the best timbre you can find in KZ, ZS10 Pro is suffer from metallic sounding timbre for me, very audible, especially on strings instuments.

as for the size and comfort, ZSX is bigger than both but still comfortable even though the faceplate is weird in shape. My only concern is the protrude at first but it turns out quite comfortable, not the best, but i can deal with. comfort wise only, the ZS10 pro / ZSN pro is more comfort obviously.

my favourite in my collection? I've been crazy over the H40 these past weeks, from value wise, sound quality they are crazy good, perhaps I won't be able to find a new target IEM under $500 for a while. Still love my M7 of course but that on another class. While on budget area, ZSX definitely 1 of my favorite. you cant go wrong with them


----------



## axhng (Mar 14, 2020)

ChristianM said:


> thanks *axhng *for reply, which one do you use that's better than these KZs?
> I'm just concern about the size of zsx, it's definitely bigger than both, zs10 pro and zsn pro was/is fairly comfortable for me don't know how's zsx will fit.



I use the Yamaha EPH-200 mostly these days because I prefer wearing IEMs cable down since I wear glasses, so that kind of bullet style design is a little nicer to me. Though I don't really think of that as way better than the ZSX other than having a more natural sounding treble timbre to me. It's a single dynamic driver setup, so it has its limitations. It's also more expensive, but i just find it more convenient for my use, and also I love its design. I had the Etymotic ER2XR too and that was awesome in its own ways, but it was very rough on my ears since I often need to remove them occasionally. That repeated insertion and removal isn't fun. haha. For me all 3 KZs fitted me fine though, and for my ears, they're all quite comfortable for me. It's mostly just the faceplate that looks big imo.



DynamicEars said:


> yes as @axhng also mentioned, the better timbre i said before means the ZSX is maybe 1 of the best timbre you can find in KZ, ZS10 Pro is suffer from metallic sounding timbre for me, very audible, especially on strings instuments.
> 
> as for the size and comfort, ZSX is bigger than both but still comfortable even though the faceplate is weird in shape. My only concern is the protrude at first but it turns out quite comfortable, not the best, but i can deal with. comfort wise only, the ZS10 pro / ZSN pro is more comfort obviously.
> 
> my favourite in my collection? I've been crazy over the H40 these past weeks, from value wise, sound quality they are crazy good, perhaps I won't be able to find a new target IEM under $500 for a while. Still love my M7 of course but that on another class. While on budget area, ZSX definitely 1 of my favorite. you cant go wrong with them



I didn't get to try the M7, but I was at a shopping around for IEMs a while back and was looking at the XBA-N3, so went to a Sony store to try them. Ended up not liking it much because it sounded way too bassy for my liking. The staff recommended the IER-M9 to me, and really love how it sounded. But well, that is on another class as you mentioned. Not just in terms of sound, but also in price.


----------



## Sebulr (Mar 14, 2020)

I've done a slater mod on my kz zs10 pros to tame the treble a bit. But I'm too lazy to get 3m tape, so I completely covered the nozzles with brown packing tape. I much prefer the sound now and don't have to eq them any more. They even sound great over apt x and aac bluetooth with my headsets. I think I'm gonna have to mod my normal zs 10 too.

I previously used the tissue mod, but I broke one of the screen filters. So covering them with tape does the job. I really think the ba drivers in nozzles should be dampered. I don't know why they don't come filtered.
(edit, typo, screen keyboard)


----------



## ChristianM

Thank you* DynamicEars axhng, *your replies are very help for me, I gonna get ZSX later this month as there will be sale on aliexpress from 28 March. Yamaha EPH-200, H40 & M7 are all out my league, sure they all look very nice but I'm sure ZSX will make me happy. thanks


----------



## Slater

Sebulr said:


> I've done a slater mod on my kz zs10 pros to tame the treble a bit. But I'm too lazy to get 3m tape, so I completely covered the nozzles with brown packing tape. I much prefer the sound now and don't have to eq them any more. They even sound great over apt x and aac bluetooth with my headsets. I think I'm gonna have to mod my normal zs 10 too.
> 
> I previously used the tissue mod, but I broke one of the screen filters. So covering them with tape does the job. I really think the ba drivers in nozzles should be dampered. I don't know why they don't come filtered.
> (edit, typo, screen keyboard)



I agree. The dampers are like $2 retail. Buying them in the qty KZ would need, they’d probably be 1/4 that. I don’t think that’s too much to ask when the asking price for KZs upper models is $50-$80


----------



## RikudouGoku

@ChristianM You can check out the CCA C12, that should fit the same as the ZS10 Pro but also an upgrade in sound to it.


----------



## ChristianM

Thanks RikudouGoku for suggestion I'm watching the comparison videos of zsx, c12, TRNs etc. but so far most of them praise for zsx, I'll see. thanks


----------



## zachmal (Mar 14, 2020)

Nimweth said:


> I have the ST1 coming soon. What do you think of it?



the highs can be a bit aggressive at times - mostly they are fine though, mids/voices appears to be nice and I seem to prefer the bass over the one from TRN V90

the fit is rather good and doesn't require any different tips or tip-rolling / re-positioning of the ST1

I gotta re-listen to it soon-ish though, haven't listened to it for some time (right now having the V90, Tin T2 and **** in rotation)


----------



## SoundChoice

axhng said:


> Second DynamicEars's comment on these too. I had all 3 of them at some point in time, but eventually passed them to my friends since I don't use them much anymore. I found the ZSX to be nicest out of the lot. To me I also found that the treble on the ZSX isn't as metallic sounding or as fatiguing as the other 2.



I believe the proper word is “steely”


----------



## captione

Well, I was gonna ask if I should get the ZS10 Pros over CCA C12s. Looks like I have to go for the C12s.

How's the timbre though? I hope it's not disappointing. I'm more about the unique sounds every instrument produces.


----------



## baskingshark

captione said:


> Well, I was gonna ask if I should get the ZS10 Pros over CCA C12s. Looks like I have to go for the C12s.
> 
> How's the timbre though? I hope it's not disappointing. I'm more about the unique sounds every instrument produces.



If u are after timbre, at the budget segment most multi BA/hybrids are not good for timbre. Whereas the DD sets at the budget segment tend to have better timbre but at the expense of poorer technicalities than their BA/hybrid counterparts.

CCA is a subset of KZ and KZs are actually quite infamous for having a "steely" or artificial timbre for acoustic instruments. I had 5 KZ hybrids and sold them all off as I value timbre over technicalities. Now for technicalities, the KZs are actually very good for their price, I previously said they can hit about 80% sound quality of sets ten times their price (like vs my midfi multi driver westones) and I stand by this statement. The latest KZ ZSX has supposedly fixed the timbre issues of their multi BA/hybrid sets, but it still ain't as good as some DD sets in the timbre department. So if u are after accurate reproduction of instrumental tone and timbre, best to look elsewhere. For technical excellence, the KZs are very good, so depends on what you want in your music and your music genre preferences.


----------



## captione

baskingshark said:


> If u are after timbre, at the budget segment most multi BA/hybrids are not good for timbre. Whereas the DD sets at the budget segment tend to have better timbre but at the expense of poorer technicalities than their BA/hybrid counterparts.
> 
> CCA is a subset of KZ and KZs are actually quite infamous for having a "steely" or artificial timbre for acoustic instruments. I had 5 KZ hybrids and sold them all off as I value timbre over technicalities. Now for technicalities, the KZs are actually very good for their price, I previously said they can hit about 80% sound quality of sets ten times their price (like vs my midfi multi driver westones) and I stand by this statement. The latest KZ ZSX has supposedly fixed the timbre issues of their multi BA/hybrid sets, but it still ain't as good as some DD sets in the timbre department. So if u are after accurate reproduction of instrumental tone and timbre, best to look elsewhere. For technical excellence, the KZs are very good, so depends on what you want in your music and your music genre preferences.



Oh, that's decent then. I've heard worse so if the technicalities are pretty good then it's fair enough. Heard that the C12 is more treble linear than the ZSX with more meat in the mids, I don't want a fatiguing treble anyways.

If you look at my last.fm profile then I just listen to anything. From Noise and Power Electronics to anything with a pop structured songwriting, doesn't really matter as long as it's interesting, catchy, and groovy. I don't really prefer a signature as of now (I'm pretty much new in the game) so I'm buylisting some good IEMs with various signatures as far as my budget goes, though I'm pretty leaning to the warm, shallow v-type signature with sparkly treble that my wide bore tipped ES4 gives as of now.


----------



## baskingshark

captione said:


> Oh, that's decent then. I've heard worse so if the technicalities are pretty good then it's fair enough. Heard that the C12 is more treble linear than the ZSX with more meat in the mids, I don't want a fatiguing treble anyways.
> 
> If you look at my last.fm profile then I just listen to anything. From Noise and Power Electronics to anything with a pop structured songwriting, doesn't really matter as long as it's interesting, catchy, and groovy. I don't really prefer a signature as of now (I'm pretty much new in the game) so I'm buylisting some good IEMs with various signatures as far as my budget goes, though I'm pretty leaning to the warm, shallow v-type signature with sparkly treble that my wide bore tipped ES4 gives as of now.



Yeah when u are new to the hobby, the first phase is to discover what sound signature u like and try out different transducer types (eg hybrids, BA, DD, even planars/piezos/electrostat). The good news is that in the past 3 years, CHIFI provides very good sound nowadays for cheap; so we can get multiple IEMs with various tunings and various drivers to try them out. Actually most of us have a few sets lying about the house to suit different music genres, as our gear have strengths and weaknesses.

Most budget sets are tuned harmanish or V shaped to suit consumer preferences, but even among the budget sets, I think KZs are one of the market leaders for sub $50. They are a good brand for those new to CHIFI to start out, and they generally have a U/V shaped tuning with good technicals and fun sound. 

But I would advise that once u find your desired sound signature, it is best to move up the line if finances allow. I made the mistake of sticking around the budget segment for years and kept buying sidegrade after sidegrade. The costs do add up, like you could get a midfi set for 4 - 5 budget CHIFI sets, but of course different strokes for different folks, YMMV.


----------



## captione

baskingshark said:


> Yeah when u are new to the hobby, the first phase is to discover what sound signature u like and try out different transducer types (eg hybrids, BA, DD, even planars/piezos/electrostat). The good news is that in the past 3 years, CHIFI provides very good sound nowadays for cheap; so we can get multiple IEMs with various tunings and various drivers to try them out. Actually most of us have a few sets lying about the house to suit different music genres, as our gear have strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> Most budget sets are tuned harmanish or V shaped to suit consumer preferences, but even among the budget sets, I think KZs are one of the market leaders for sub $50. They are a good brand for those new to CHIFI to start out, and they generally have a U/V shaped tuning with good technicals and fun sound.
> 
> But I would advise that once u find your desired sound signature, it is best to move up the line if finances allow. I made the mistake of sticking around the budget segment for years and kept buying sidegrade after sidegrade. The costs do add up, like you could get a midfi set for 4 - 5 budget CHIFI sets, but of course different strokes for different folks, YMMV.


That's my plan honestly, try some few iems and sell some of them all when I get a feel of my preferred signature. KZ has been impressing me for months with the EDR2s, ZS3s and the ES4s, which I'm very glad that I have experienced. I also have the Nicehck DB3s currently that fulfills my timbre needs for now. I have four possible TOTLS in my plans when I have my sonical preferences sorted out.


----------



## RikudouGoku

captione said:


> That's my plan honestly, try some few iems and sell some of them all when I get a feel of my preferred signature. KZ has been impressing me for months with the EDR2s, ZS3s and the ES4s, which I'm very glad that I have experienced. I also have the Nicehck DB3s currently that fulfills my timbre needs for now. I have four possible TOTLS in my plans when I have my sonical preferences sorted out.


And what might those TOTLS be?


----------



## captione

RikudouGoku said:


> And what might those TOTLS be?


I'm not sure if they're befitting of the TOTL title lol (my wallet would blow into dust when I definitely consider it as of now) but here are my possible choices:
NiceHCK NX7 Pro
TinHifi T4
Moondrop Starfield 
Nature Sounds NS3
Any suggestions would be nice


----------



## RikudouGoku

captione said:


> I'm not sure if they're befitting of the TOTL title lol (my wallet would blow into dust when I definitely consider it as of now) but here are my possible choices:
> NiceHCK NX7 Pro
> TinHifi T4
> Moondrop Starfield
> ...


Guess they might be TOTL when compared to KZ lol.

LZ A6, Audiosense DT200, Urbanfun iss014 and Shozy Form 1.1 are some good picks too.


----------



## 40lb

Always start them young (3), just give them the budget stuff first. The ZSX is the first she actually sat down and listened too. 

ZSX is a must have in any KZ collection.


----------



## DynamicEars

captione said:


> Well, I was gonna ask if I should get the ZS10 Pros over CCA C12s. Looks like I have to go for the C12s.
> 
> How's the timbre though? I hope it's not disappointing. I'm more about the unique sounds every instrument produces.





captione said:


> Oh, that's decent then. I've heard worse so if the technicalities are pretty good then it's fair enough. Heard that the C12 is more treble linear than the ZSX with more meat in the mids, I don't want a fatiguing treble anyways.
> 
> If you look at my last.fm profile then I just listen to anything. From Noise and Power Electronics to anything with a pop structured songwriting, doesn't really matter as long as it's interesting, catchy, and groovy. I don't really prefer a signature as of now (I'm pretty much new in the game) so I'm buylisting some good IEMs with various signatures as far as my budget goes, though I'm pretty leaning to the warm, shallow v-type signature with sparkly treble that my wide bore tipped ES4 gives as of now.



like @baskingshark said if you are after for the best timbre, a solid single DD will do the best. But if you have to choose between C12/ZSX/ZS10 Pro, ZSX and C12 will have better timbre than ZS10 Pro, and about trebles, the ZSX will be safer than C12, so i guess ZSX is better choice to your preference.

well the "TOTL" list that you are mention there isn't TOTL sound at all to be honest, they are better than most budget IEM but once you upgraded, there is no way turning back, you have to be ready mate, the rabbit hole doesn't  stop there at entry level midfi. But the budget level indeed is needed for you to know exactly what sound signature that you like and you prefer, and from there you can search for your real upgrade according to your signature preferences. Goodluck and sorry - for the fall into this rabbit hole, lol


----------



## captione

DynamicEars said:


> Goodluck and sorry - for the fall into this rabbit hole, lol


What a rabbit hole indeed, and an interesting one too. Once I get myself some long term gear I'll be leaving this hobby to pursue something else. I wasn't planning on going through real audiophile territory, I just want to give my love for music some justice by not using my crappy hand-me-down earbuds that came with some brand smartphone. Really glad to stumble upon this thread 

I'll be trying out my friend's ZSX once I get a hold of it. I'll just see if it fits to my liking


----------



## baskingshark

captione said:


> What a rabbit hole indeed, and an interesting one too. Once I get myself some long term gear I'll be leaving this hobby to pursue something else.



Trust me, many people here have made this promise but are still here today waiting for the latest hypetrain. I said exactly the same thing 25 IEMs ago LOL.

Well maybe the coronavirus outbreak may curb our CHIFI purchases for the next few months. So we can enjoy the existing gear we have and try (probably unsuccessfully) to leave the rabbithole


----------



## Zerohour88

captione said:


> I'm not sure if they're befitting of the TOTL title lol (my wallet would blow into dust when I definitely consider it as of now) but here are my possible choices:
> NiceHCK NX7 Pro
> TinHifi T4
> Moondrop Starfield
> ...



usually TOTL in porta-fi means kilobucks (stuff like CA Andromeda, Sony Z1R, VE8). Technically it can apply to any "top of the line" of a particular product line, but rules of common usage applies, I guess.

recently tried the Tin T4 and NX7 (non-Pro), I'd definitely take the T4 over that one. Not sure how much better the "Pro" is.


also, saw this being advertised by Linsoul, the KZ S2, I suppose finally a new IEM from them? at least it alleviates the "oh, KZ releases new IEM every week" meme.
I hope they worked off the E10 instead of the S1D


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Trust me, many people here have made this promise but are still here today waiting for the latest hypetrain. I said exactly the same thing 25 IEMs ago LOL.
> 
> Well maybe the coronavirus outbreak may curb our CHIFI purchases for the next few months. So we can enjoy the existing gear we have and try (probably unsuccessfully) to leave the rabbithole


Some people ruin themselves with gambling or gaming but we ruin ourselves with iems


----------



## Slater

Zerohour88 said:


> usually TOTL in porta-fi means kilobucks (stuff like CA Andromeda, Sony Z1R, VE8). Technically it can apply to any "top of the line" of a particular product line, but rules of common usage applies, I guess.
> 
> recently tried the Tin T4 and NX7 (non-Pro), I'd definitely take the T4 over that one. Not sure how much better the "Pro" is.
> 
> ...



Is “KZAcoustics” the same thing as KZ?

Because a lot of Chinese companies copy off one another to trick people into thinking they’re the more successful company.


----------



## Zerohour88

Slater said:


> Is “KZAcoustics” the same thing as KZ?
> 
> Because a lot of Chinese companies copy off one another to trick people into thinking they’re the more successful company.



KZ Acoustics sounds much more mainstream, I think. Not sure if they've abandoned the "Knowledge Zenith" part entirely, not that its relevant and more about people just memeing "typical chi-fi naming".

Also, seems someone shared the link to linsoul product page previously (haven't been on headfi for months, just thought a new KZ warrant checking up on the thread). A 1DD+1BA design, guess its not based on the E10 then.


----------



## Casine

I’m enjoying my AS10.


----------



## Casine

Really good value for a stage iem with balance, bass, and isolation.


----------



## TC44

Recently acquired a pair of KZ ZXS, my first KZ product.  Purchased a Tripowin balanced cable to use with my ES100.  Really enjoying these and been using daily.  Very surprised what under $100 can get you nowadays.  Trying not to get caught up with side grade or upgrade as I read about other IEM such as the Blon, Tin and other offerings...just want to enjoy these for a while.  I did notice the low end cleaned up with use, seemed a little bloated at first.  Listen to a wide variety, but mostly Jazz.  Stay safe!


----------



## caprimulgus (Mar 22, 2020)

TC44 said:


> Recently acquired a pair of KZ ZXS, my first KZ product.  Purchased a Tripowin balanced cable to use with my ES100.  Really enjoying these and been using daily.  Very surprised what under $100 can get you nowadays.  Trying not to get caught up with side grade or upgrade as I read about other IEM such as the Blon, Tin and other offerings...just want to enjoy these for a while.  I did notice the low end cleaned up with use, seemed a little bloated at first.  Listen to a wide variety, but mostly Jazz.  Stay safe!



Almost exact same situation - KZ ZSX, Tripowin C8, Fiio BTR5. VERY happy - don't really feel the need to buy anything else really! (Except maybe another pair of TWS, for the times I want total wireless freedom)

(Although I did buy Blon BL03 at the same time as the ZSX)


----------



## PhonoPhi

KZ named ZSX "Terminator" for a good reason! 
The law of the terminated returns


----------



## baskingshark

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ named ZSX "Terminator" for a good reason!
> The law of the terminated returns



Maybe they "terminated" multi BA/hybrids and abandoned the driver count nuclear race after the KZ ZSX.

Seems all subsequent releases after the ZSX by KZ are wireless stuff.


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> Maybe they "terminated" multi BA/hybrids and abandoned the driver count nuclear race after the KZ ZSX.
> 
> Seems all subsequent releases after the ZSX by KZ are wireless stuff.



Speak about the devil, after months of radiosilence, KZ are coming up with a new TWS KZ S2:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/coming_soon
https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2

For those that bought their recent wireless gear, I read there were connectivity problems? Hopefully it is fixed with this.


----------



## Sebulr

I have got a refund on my green kz s1 tws set as the left earpiece crackles and pops horribly. I think there is an electrical short somewhere, as if, I touch them it dissipates then builds up again. Also the battery life on the left is 45 minutes to 1 hour. Shame really as the right one sounds fine. Also there are no large tips in the package which is a problem for me. The manual says medium and small only. 

I bought them from linsoul on amazon, so credit to them to them for giving me a refund, without return. Just putting this out there as a data point, and a thank you to linsoul for customer service.


----------



## Mouseman

baskingshark said:


> Speak about the devil, after months of radiosilence, KZ are coming up with a new TWS KZ S2:
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/coming_soon
> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2
> 
> For those that bought their recent wireless gear, I read there were connectivity problems? Hopefully it is fixed with this.


KZ needs to turn off the Xerox machine and come up with something new. I have the first set (the beta test) and they're pretty good. The ZS1 was awful and I returned it, and haven't bothered since. If they can make a TWS ZSX, then they'll get my attention back.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have no more interest in TWS sets, a blue tooth amp with balanced wired iems or earbuds is just fine with no drops outs or matching


----------



## juli95

I have a question. Does anyone know how to use the microphone from the KZ headphones on a desktop Windows computer?


----------



## TheVortex (Mar 29, 2020)

juli95 said:


> I have a question. Does anyone know how to use the microphone from the KZ headphones on a desktop Windows computer?



Hi, it should work with a computer but you might need a splitter to convert it from 3.5mm to 2x 3.5mm for your mic in and headphone out on your computer case.


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2020)

juli95 said:


> I have a question. Does anyone know how to use the microphone from the KZ headphones on a desktop Windows computer?



I had the same problem, and ended up buying a TRRS (4 pole) Y splitter for my computer a number of years ago. It was under $1.

You plug in a 4 pole TRRS headphone (such as KZ), and the adapter splits it into a separate headphone and microphone plug (which then plugs into the computer).

Edit: @TheVortex also answered your question and showed the same adapter I’m referring to


----------



## juli95

Thanks to both of you 
But what i wonder right now. When i plug the headphones right now just into the microphone port, Windows doesn't recognize the microphone/doesn't get any sound input. Does that change when i use a splitter? Or do i need to install some sort of drivers before for the mic?


----------



## Slater (Mar 29, 2020)

juli95 said:


> Thanks to both of you
> But what i wonder right now. When i plug the headphones right now just into the microphone port, Windows doesn't recognize the microphone/doesn't get any sound input. Does that change when i use a splitter? Or do i need to install some sort of drivers before for the mic?



Your laptop audio jack is designed for a 3-pole (TRS) plug. The Headphone is a 4-pole TRRS plug. That’s why you’re not getting any microphone input. That’s why you need an adapter (not drivers). The adapter splits the signal into what your computer will be able to understand. Then it will work like a charm.


----------



## juli95 (Mar 29, 2020)

Thank you very much 
I ordered a cable.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

PSA TO ALL ZSX OWNERS: VENT YOUR IEMs!!!

I was missing the sound of open back headphones. I freaking love the zsx terminators but the one thing I hated the congested sound. and the bass feels like it’s “trapped” sometimes like it’s too powerful for the housing. So I fixed it.

I was reading about vented iems for better bass.
so I decided I have nothing to lose. And neither do you.

I put them in a vice grip and took my smallest drill bit (1/16”) and carefully made a tiny hole on the “wing” of the housing on the back side

you can cover it up with tape for the original sound

I can’t believe how much more relaxed the sound is and the bass is a bit less impact but feels so much more real and spacious now.

it’s well worth the 5 minute it took me to do the mod and I’m freaking out about how GOOD it sounds.

if you go slow until the drill breaks thru you won’t break anything on the inside.
 VENTED ZSX FTW!!!!


----------



## Nimweth

Just arrived: BA10. After a quick listen I can pronounce these as the best KZ I have tried so far. I prefer them to the ZSX and even the ZS7, which they resemble except the BA10 sounds tighter. No fit issues, either as I have large ear canals. They sound softer than expected, nothing like A10 or C16 and are more similar to TRN BA5, but the sub bass is massive! Thanks, Podster, for recommending these!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Just arrived: BA10. After a quick listen I can pronounce these as the best KZ I have tried so far. I prefer them to the ZSX and even the ZS7, which they resemble except the BA10 sounds tighter. No fit issues, either as I have large ear canals. They sound softer than expected, nothing like A10 or C16 and are more similar to TRN BA5, but the sub bass is massive! Thanks, Podster, for recommending these!


Do you have AS10 to compare with? They share the same drivers. BA10 are definitely tighter.

I now largely listen to AS16, I gradually learned to enjoy the elevated treble, and they do everything for me at the moment - brilliant with string quartets.


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> Speak about the devil, after months of radiosilence, KZ are coming up with a new TWS KZ S2:
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kz-s2-next-generation-hybrid-tws-in-ear-monitors/coming_soon
> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/kz-s2
> 
> For those that bought their recent wireless gear, I read there were connectivity problems? Hopefully it is fixed with this.



Just noticed that linsoul's own page now says that the KZ S2 is aac only and using realtek 8763 instead of the qcc3020. hmmm....


----------



## TheVortex

I was interested in buying the AS16 but they are still so expensive. I have the AS10 but never tried the BA10 due to the shape of it.

I would wait on feedback for the KZ S2 before ordering them.


----------



## baskingshark

TheVortex said:


> I was interested in buying the AS16 but they are still so expensive. I have the AS10 but never tried the BA10 due to the shape of it.
> 
> I would wait on feedback for the KZ S2 before ordering them.



I think AS16 is KZ's most expensive KZ still to date. But it didn't sell that well cause at the $100 price range, there's lots of competition. Reviews were also equivocal for it at some audio sites/blogs. Seems their sister's CCA C16 sold better, and it was no doubt cheaper too. At the budget segment, a mere difference of $20 - 30 can swing sales.

KZ is still a big market leader at the sub $50 range and I thought they would press on their advantage after the successful KZ ZSX (terminator), but seems they are putting their money on the wireless segment these days.

I'm definitely gonna wait for reviews on the KZ S2, KZ's track record with wireless gear isn't the most stellar.


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> Do you have AS10 to compare with? They share the same drivers. BA10 are definitely tighter.
> 
> I now largely listen to AS16, I gradually learned to enjoy the elevated treble, and they do everything for me at the moment - brilliant with string quartets.


No, I do not have the AS10. The ZS7 shares the same mid and treble BAs and the BA10 sounds similar but the bass BA is superb, better than the TRR BA5 or any CCA model I have.I


----------



## Podster (Apr 1, 2020)

Nimweth said:


> Just arrived: BA10. After a quick listen I can pronounce these as the best KZ I have tried so far. I prefer them to the ZSX and even the ZS7, which they resemble except the BA10 sounds tighter. No fit issues, either as I have large ear canals. They sound softer than expected, nothing like A10 or C16 and are more similar to TRN BA5, but the sub bass is massive! Thanks, Podster, for recommending these!



I would have to agree but for balls to the wall rock I'm still on board with the ZSX or ZS7's , not that I like KZ (16 Pair) or anything








I got my ZSX on sale for $36 and IMO for that price they are some serious rockers and I like their bass just the way it is so I'm by-passing the port hole Mod and if I want less bass I'll wear my BA10's

I've actually been working on my Laptop all day at home letting these two duke it out to classic rock albums and for the price I paid the ZSX takes the M6 down even with BGVP filters in them.  I like my M6 but they cater to softer passage stuff for my ears where as the X's light up from end to end and at half the VU. For me they are closer to a ZS6 but as always we all hear them just a bit differently





Guess it's just a GRAY area LOL


----------



## courierdriver

Not sure if I wanna take the plunge in the ZSX. I'm loving my ZS10 PRO so much, I'm not sure i can justify getting this set. With the music i listen to, i cant justify spending more. ZS10 PRO is my current favorite.


----------



## PhonoPhi

courierdriver said:


> Not sure if I wanna take the plunge in the ZSX. I'm loving my ZS10 PRO so much, I'm not sure i can justify getting this set. With the music i listen to, i cant justify spending more. ZS10 PRO is my current favorite.


ZS10 PRO are more wild and cheerful. I once listened to electric guitars like I've never heard them before, an amazing experience. Those "steely" 30095s can work like nothing else 
(For acoustic music I prefer ZSX to ZS10p, while favouring AS16 and AS12 (with treble filters removed) over ZSX).

So your answer would largely depend on your listening preferences.


----------



## courierdriver

PhonoPhi said:


> ZS10 PRO are more wild and cheerful. I once listened to electric guitars like I've never heard them before, an amazing experience. Those "steely" 30095s can work like nothing else
> (For acoustic music I prefer ZSX to ZS10p, while favouring AS16 and AS12 (with treble filters removed) over ZSX).
> 
> So your answer would largely depend on your listening preferences.


Yup, I concur. I enjoy alot of older 70's to 90's rock, as well as late 70's-80's dance and funk. Even a bit of pop from that era also. Can't say I can detect any "steeliness" with the material I mostly listen to. Then again, I don't often listen to much acoustic or anything with much higher stringed instruments like violin, etc. ZS10 PRO is still my favorite set, with TFZ NO.3 a close second for more dance oriented music.


----------



## tgx78 (Apr 2, 2020)

Can't stand when people repeatedly talk about ZS10 pro = automatically = steely timbre.
I played violin for last 30 years and one thing I can tell you is that ZS10 PRO's timbre for classical music is not that bad.
Violin E strings use steel or plated steel strings F F S. It sounds amazingly accurate compared to my other way more expensive BA sets.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

tgx78 said:


> Can't stand when people repeatedly talk about ZS10 pro = automatically = steely timbre.
> I played violin for last 30 years and one thing I can tell you is that ZS10 PRO's timbre for classical music is not that bad.
> Violin E strings use steel or plated steel strings F F S. It sounds amazingly accurate compared to my other way more expensive BA sets.


Clearly not many people here really spend that much time listening to their kz iems.


----------



## khighly (Apr 2, 2020)

ZSX are quite better than the TRN V90 in my opinion after about a month of rotating quarantine use. I originally thought they were similar but the ZSX just deliver a wider soundstage, better deeper reaching low end, and are more refined with no sibilance anywhere. TRN V90 are good, but ZSX is still much better. ZSX run circles on all IEM's I own.

Looking at likely being furloughed this week after being promoted to a large pay increase, so TRN V90 are probably my final IEM for awhile. Was really looking forward to being severely disappointed by the big IEM players .


----------



## Supremevegbeef

khighly said:


> ZSX are quite better than the TRN V90 in my opinion after about a month of rotating quarantine use. I originally thought they were similar but the ZSX just deliver a wider soundstage, better deeper reaching low end, and are more refined with no sibilance anywhere. TRN V90 are good, but ZSX is still much better. ZSX run circles on all IEM's I own.
> 
> Looking at likely being furloughed this week after being promoted to a large pay increase, so TRN V90 are probably my final IEM for awhile.


Try porting your zsx if you have the resources to? Sound signature exactly the same but soundstage is vastly widened & instrument separation improved


----------



## khighly

Supremevegbeef said:


> Try porting your zsx if you have the resources to? Sound signature exactly the same but soundstage is vastly widened & instrument separation improved



I just bought 2 pairs so I might give it a try on a pair. I'll post if I do.


----------



## khighly

Seriously though. The ZSX lows absolutely _*go*_, and they aren't overpowered, just....great reach. Ridiculously good even with stock tips.  I never am disappointed with these no matter what genre I'm listening to.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

Yes the have better depth, impact Nd accuracy at very low frequencies than most iem I heard prior to this zsx.
The difference between stock and ported bass is like being in a club where you can feel the subwoofer. Ported bass is like being in the middle center of an arena show. It’s bigger and wider but hits you less.
I’ll be honest I haven’t touched as10 since I last posted here.
Zsx with the silver plated cable to bring a bit of sparkle to the treble. And the porting to widen the stage is the icing on the cake.

oh btw I would have got more likes if I had never brought up the mod and just said I gave my gf zs10 pro and she loves them. I never tried them. I’m sure they’re good. She doesn’t need me trying to optimize and criticize  her IEMs.

I put 2 months of daily listening in my zsx before I decide to attempt porting.
I don’t know if burn in exists but if it does these babies are burnt in!


----------



## baloo2

axhng said:


> Just noticed that linsoul's own page now says that the KZ S2 is aac only and using realtek 8763 instead of the qcc3020. hmmm....



Yeah, 8763 is the first bluetooth chipset from Realtek, so we will see how it's going to perform. I would definitely prefer newest QC3020 from Qualcomm (with aac and aptx), which is leading company in the field of BT chipsets. I wanted to preorder S2 but ordered S1 instead and will wait for the first reviews...


----------



## Podster

khighly said:


> ZSX are quite better than the TRN V90 in my opinion after about a month of rotating quarantine use. I originally thought they were similar but the ZSX just deliver a wider soundstage, better deeper reaching low end, and are more refined with no sibilance anywhere. TRN V90 are good, but ZSX is still much better. ZSX run circles on all IEM's I own.
> 
> Looking at likely being furloughed this week after being promoted to a large pay increase, so TRN V90 are probably my final IEM for awhile. Was really looking forward to being severely disappointed by the big IEM players .



Sorry to hear about the furlough and hope we have a fast recovery on the Vid-19! THX for the V90 take as I’ve been off and on with them for some time especially after MB posted her Midnight blue pair with that purple cable:-0 Not too expensive I’ve just got more iem’s than I could wear out in a lifetime and at 63 how much time can that honestly be right Like I said before I love my BA10 but at this point if I could only have one KZ it’s the ZSX hands down. Cherrs and good luck!


----------



## Supremevegbeef

Can i get some recommendations for non-KZ brand tips that work with the ZSX?

I have some foams that fit but my silicone ones are not the most comfortable and i don't have any other tips that fit these wider style nozzles like the ZSX has.


----------



## SiggyFraud (Apr 3, 2020)

KZ just announced yet another TWS pair - the Z1. That makes two new wireless sets from them, with the S2 coming soon to Linsoul and Indiegogo.


----------



## baskingshark

SiggyFraud said:


> KZ just announced yet another TWS pair - the Z1. That makes two new wireless sets from them, with the S2 coming soon to Linsoul and Indiegogo.



After the connectivity issues of their previous TWS releases, I'm still gonna wait for reviews for both. Maybe their strategy is by releasing more TWS simultaneously, they are hoping that at least one will succeed?


----------



## SiggyFraud

baskingshark said:


> After the connectivity issues of their previous TWS releases, I'm still gonna wait for reviews for both. Maybe their strategy is by releasing more TWS simultaneously, they are hoping that at least one will succeed?


Hard to say. I honestly had high hopes for the S2, but right now it seems that holding back and waiting for reviews for both new sets would be the smart thing to do.
I wonder if they actually ditched the wired designs for good or if it's just a fad.


----------



## Slater (Apr 3, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Hard to say. I honestly had high hopes for the S2, but right now it seems that holding back and waiting for reviews for both new sets would be the smart thing to do.
> I wonder if they actually ditched the wired designs for good or if it's just a fad.



You know, I’ve been thinking about that. I wonder if the nickname they gave the ZSX -> “Terminator of Hybrid Technology”, was their way of saying ‘this is the last of its kind from us; the best we can do; the pinnacle of the KZ hybrid line of wired earphones’. Terminate means the ending of something.



Seeing how they and CCA haven’t come out with a single wired model after the ZSX, it might signal that as far as KZ is concerned, it’s TWS from here on out. Sure seems to be that way...


----------



## Nimweth

I am finding the BA10 wonderful for classical music. Very natural wide range sound. This sounds amazing, very beautiful music:


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Slater said:


> You know, I’ve been thinking about that. I wonder if the nickname they gave the ZSX -> “Terminator of Hybrid Technology”, was their way of saying ‘this is the last of its kind from us; the best we can do; the pinnacle of the KZ hybrid line of wired earphones’. Terminate means the ending of something.
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing how they and CCA haven’t come out with a single wired model after the ZSX, it might signal that as far as KZ is concerned, it’s TWS from here on out. Sure seems to be that way...



Looks like it. Also, sub $50 wireless iem market doesn't have an undisputed leader unlike KZ in wired market. They want to grab every potential segment in the sub $50 region. Or maybe they listened to our pleas of coming up with DD iems and ditched the hybrid line. Lol.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

I'm curious. Are my posts not showing up in this thread or does nobody here give a single screw to even acknowledge my posts?


----------



## Slater (Apr 3, 2020)

Supremevegbeef said:


> I'm curious. Are my posts not showing up in this thread or does nobody here give a single screw to even acknowledge my posts?



There’s a significant drop in traffic to HeadFi in general due to the global pandemic. As you might imagine, that is a slightly more important issue for most people right now.

In addition, the KZ thread has not been very active lately due to basically no new models being released lately.

I’d answer your eartip recommendation question, but unfortunately I don’t own the ZSX.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

Slater said:


> There’s a significant drop in traffic to HeadFi in general due to the global pandemic. As you might imagine, that is a slightly more important issue for most people right now.
> 
> In addition, the KZ thread has not been very active lately due to basically no new models being released lately.
> 
> I’d answer your eartip recommendation question, but unfortunately I don’t own the ZSX.


Thank you man.
I would be very interested to know a couple of your favorite non KZ branded tips , and i will keep it in mind that i will have to be responsible for making sure they fit the ZSX.
Have a good one man & thank you.


----------



## rokushoo

In an attempt to keep myself sane during self quarantine, I've been modding some of my extra iems. Just finished these ED9s today.


----------



## Slater

Supremevegbeef said:


> Thank you man.
> I would be very interested to know a couple of your favorite non KZ branded tips , and i will keep it in mind that i will have to be responsible for making sure they fit the ZSX.
> Have a good one man & thank you.



A few of my favorite non-KZ tips are Auvio, Azla SednaEarfit Light, Tennmak Whirlwind/Turbo wide bores, the stock tips from Sony MH755, the stock tips from Rock Zircon, and generic Sony Hybrid tips.

Also, don’t forget that you can convert your stock KZ Starline tips into ‘FlipTips’. You may find that you like those better than the regular KZ tips.


----------



## Slater

rokushoo said:


> In an attempt to keep myself sane during self quarantine, I've been modding some of my extra iems. Just finished these ED9s today.



Nice job!

Those are awesome looking. I love the gold and black. I’ve always wanted to do that to mine. Now I can see what it would look like


----------



## voicemaster

Supremevegbeef said:


> I'm curious. Are my posts not showing up in this thread or does nobody here give a single screw to even acknowledge my posts?


If you like foamies, this is good, better than the newbee foamies imho. For me, the starline silicone tips fits me good, but I like foamies too.
Earphone Tips F FEYCH Premium Replacement Earbud Tips Memory Foam Earphone Tips Blocking Noise Foam Tips Suit for 4.5-6.3mm Nozzle in-Ear Earphones with Storage Box(Small, 6 Pairs, Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJSTB44/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_wIaIEbBVAM3D8


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> You know, I’ve been thinking about that. I wonder if the nickname they gave the ZSX -> “Terminator of Hybrid Technology”, was their way of saying ‘this is the last of its kind from us; the best we can do; the pinnacle of the KZ hybrid line of wired earphones’. Terminate means the ending of something.
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing how they and CCA haven’t come out with a single wired model after the ZSX, it might signal that as far as KZ is concerned, it’s TWS from here on out. Sure seems to be that way...


If that's the case, then it's a shame. Many of their wired earphones sound great, but there are still a lot of problems with TWS sets, and tbh, I'm not inclined to buy a set for the sheer fact that I'd be worried about losing one or both while wearing them. Even the crappy cables they normally ship with (sans chin slider) on their wired sets will at least prevent them from falling down the drain or under the wheels of a passing car. Just give me a good sounding wired set, and I'll do bluetooth with something like an ES100, BTR5/3. I might look at TWS again in a few years, but right now they just ain't there yet.


Supremevegbeef said:


> Thank you man.
> I would be very interested to know a couple of your favorite non KZ branded tips , and i will keep it in mind that i will have to be responsible for making sure they fit the ZSX.
> Have a good one man & thank you.


I don't own the ZSX, but I do have it's predecessor the ZS10 PRO. I use Newbee foams on it, as well as on all my other iems (Moondrop Kanas PRO, TFZ NO.3, Nicehck NX7). I prefer the isolation of these soft memory foam tips compared to silicones, and they don't make my ears so sweaty that the iems either fall out or cause me ear discomfort. I've got another set of foams on the way from Anjirui on Aliexpress for 10 pairs that look like Newbees but are less expensive. Hope this helps you


----------



## Caipirina

SiggyFraud said:


> KZ just announced yet another TWS pair - the Z1. That makes two new wireless sets from them, with the S2 coming soon to Linsoul and Indiegogo.


So, 2 tws on the horizon... any new iem?


----------



## genck

Caipirina said:


> So, 2 tws on the horizon... any new iem?


I think they terminated them (iem) with a phased plasma rifle in the 50 watt range after the zsx terminator.
lol


----------



## FcConstruct

How many TWS does KZ have now anyway?

I remember I reviewed the KZ E10 before and while I liked the sound of it (second only to the KZ ZSX), the issues it had with the Bluetooth modules made it impossible to use for me.

That said, I'm looking forward to reviewing the KZ S2. I like that it seems to borrow the Sabbat E12's physical button instead of a touch interface.


----------



## Caipirina

FcConstruct said:


> How many TWS does KZ have now anyway?
> 
> I remember I reviewed the KZ E10 before and while I liked the sound of it (second only to the KZ ZSX), the issues it had with the Bluetooth modules made it impossible to use for me.
> 
> That said, I'm looking forward to reviewing the KZ S2. I like that it seems to borrow the Sabbat E12's physical button instead of a touch interface.



They kicked things off with the T1, which they always called a public beta (or something like that) and as far as I know, not available anymore. Was 42$ in nice metal case. Biggest fail was the 'volume hump' ... there's like no increment between 30% and 70% ... i still like them

Then the E10, which I know many many MANY people have connection issues with. I guess I got lucky, I barely have an issue ... my issue with them is that they are clunky to put on .. and I need to put different tips on, with which they don't fit into the case. And since sometimes for re-pairing they have to be in the case and you have to press a button (super cumbersome), this makes for a bit of an ordeal ... on the other hand, only AptX and 1DD+4AA makes this technically one of the most advanced TWS I own.   Still available for 60$ 

And then new-ish, the S1 / S1D for 20-22$ ... nice, similar to the T1, but less 'premium' feel (cheapo case), does not have the volume hump, but also does not dazzle me as much as the T1, although same setup (1DD 1BA in the S1)


----------



## axhng

FcConstruct said:


> How many TWS does KZ have now anyway?
> 
> I remember I reviewed the KZ E10 before and while I liked the sound of it (second only to the KZ ZSX), the issues it had with the Bluetooth modules made it impossible to use for me.
> 
> That said, I'm looking forward to reviewing the KZ S2. I like that it seems to borrow the Sabbat E12's physical button instead of a touch interface.



The S2 has touch controls though. not physical buttons


----------



## IEManiac

So, overall, what is the most balanced and neutral KZ?


----------



## Nimweth

IEManiac said:


> So, overall, what is the most balanced and neutral KZ?


ZSX is fairly neutral, but I would recommend the BA10, if you can get a good fit.


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEManiac said:


> So, overall, what is the most balanced and neutral KZ?


ZSX and BA10 are a very good answer.

ZSX is definitely a KZ's masterpiece hybrid IEM for the average HiFi tastes (especially considering ZSX price).

BA10 is a luxury/upgrade version of AS10 (the same set of drivers). The latter offers more friendly fit.

From AS10 to BA10 to AS16 (KZ line of fairly neutral all-BA IEMs), treble becomes progressively more prominent.


----------



## Nimweth

Here's what a good bass BA can do: BA10 with this track:


----------



## Redkill3r

Bought the first kz bt module (b pin) a few months ago, because it was just around 5 bucks. Did not except it, but one of the strongest connectivity i met.
I use it with ES4 for biking or moving around in the apartment.

I liked the lucky bag aptx 2 pin cable sound better (more neutral, the kz elevates the treble a bit), but the cable broke just after a month of use (one side above the pin, quieter or no signal). Which is never happens to me, even with cheap jvc earphones. So now I am afraid to use my backup one.


----------



## Redkill3r

Nimweth said:


> Here's what a good bass BA can do: BA10 with this track:



Pretty impressive with Slater mod ZS3 too.


----------



## FcConstruct

axhng said:


> The S2 has touch controls though. not physical buttons


Oh shoot, really?






This image from the KZ S2's page on Linsoul show physical button looking things.


----------



## Nimweth

Here's another track that sounds amazing on the BA10:


----------



## axhng

FcConstruct said:


> Oh shoot, really?
> 
> This image from the KZ S2's page on Linsoul show physical button looking things.



Yeah, that circular thing basically is where the touch area is. But it is pretty responsive though. Been using a review that Linsoul sent for a couple of days now. Same low latency mode too. But a nice update over the S1 is that there is now a voice prompt telling you which mode you are in. On the S1, it's the same beeping sound no matter whether you turn it on or off. :/


----------



## Nailzs

Nimweth said:


> Here's what a good bass BA can do: BA10 with this track:



Sounds pretty good with the BL03 too!


----------



## acarvoeiro




----------



## LordGaara

My Tin audio T2's stock cable is damaged so I ordered a KZ MMCX cable with memory wire, but I feel like wearing memory wire over my ears keeps pushing the shell out of my ears, stock T2' cable is much more comfort because the cable run straight down. I tried to remove the memory wire, I cut the plastic but I can't withdraw the metal piece, I think I would need a new budget cable, do you have any suggestion?


----------



## Slater

LordGaara said:


> My Tin audio T2's stock cable is damaged so I ordered a KZ MMCX cable with memory wire, but I feel like wearing memory wire over my ears keeps pushing the shell out of my ears, stock T2' cable is much more comfort because the cable run straight down. I tried to remove the memory wire, I cut the plastic but I can't withdraw the metal piece, I think I would need a new budget cable, do you have any suggestion?



Wrap the bare memory wire around your finger a few times (like a ring) and pull the memory wire out. It will definitely come out, as I've removed dozens of them. Some pop out easier than others.


----------



## LordGaara

Slater said:


> Wrap the bare memory wire around your finger a few times (like a ring) and pull the memory wire out. It will definitely come out, as I've removed dozens of them. Some pop out easier than others.



Thanks for your tips, I'll try it when I get home.


----------



## Johnny Golden

There is another silver KZ cable without memory funtion or alternatively I have had great luck with OKCSC wires or the Linsoul and Tripowin cables which are very similar to the stock T2 cable and upgraded KZ cables


----------



## IEManiac

I have the ZS10Pro. Do I _need_ the CCA12?


----------



## Johnny Golden

IEManiac said:


> I have the ZS10Pro. Do I _need_ the CCA12?



Personally I have always found the ZS10 Pro to be the best in the range and it's my personal favourite chi-fi IEM. That said the CCA12's are a fantastic IEM but a bit more V shaped. Significantly more bass impact and a slightly elevated treble but not to the point of becoming harsh. I wouldn't rush out and buy them as an upgrade. They are both excellent earphones with one being more neutral and the other with a slightly more V shaped presentation. The one thing I can state with confidence is that the CCA12 wins over the ZSX but again they're all just different tuning's


----------



## courierdriver

Johnny Golden said:


> Personally I have always found the ZS10 Pro to be the best in the range and it's my personal favourite chi-fi IEM. That said the CCA12's are a fantastic IEM but a bit more V shaped. Significantly more bass impact and a slightly elevated treble but not to the point of becoming harsh. I wouldn't rush out and buy them as an upgrade. They are both excellent earphones with one being more neutral and the other with a slightly more V shaped presentation. The one thing I can state with confidence is that the CCA12 wins over the ZSX but again they're all just different tuning's


Thanks for your comment on this. I have had CCA C12 and ZSX in my cart for weeks now. I own ZS10 PRO and they are my favorite of the other 4 iems I own for most of the music I listen to. Don't feel the need to spend more money to replace them.


----------



## IEManiac

I have the ZS10Pro. Do I need the TRN V90?


----------



## genck

IEManiac said:


> I have the ZS10Pro. Do I need the TRN V90?


I have both, no.


----------



## courierdriver

IEManiac said:


> I have the ZS10Pro. Do I need the TRN V90?


To me, no. But I guess it depends on what you think is lacking in the ZS 10 PRO to you


----------



## Slater

IEManiac said:


> I have the ZS10Pro. Do I _need_ the CCA12?





IEManiac said:


> I have the ZS10Pro. Do I need the TRN V90?



You don’t _need_ any of them. Do you enjoy listening to the ZS10 Pro?


----------



## Johnny Golden

IEManiac said:


> I have the ZS10Pro. Do I need the TRN V90?



It's a similar answer to whether you need the CCA C12. The TRN V90 has an even more V shaped presentation and I personally find the bass to be overwhelming at times. They do have a slightly better construction though and if this is the sound signature you want then get them but overall I consider the ZS10 Pro's to be better headphones.

What exactly is it that you don't like or want to improve upon from the ZS10 Pro's


----------



## IEManiac

I find the ZS10Pro's bass a bit much at times. That's at all.


----------



## Johnny Golden

IEManiac said:


> I find the ZS10Pro's bass a bit much at times. That's at all.



In that case your best bet for reduced bass would be something from the tin range even the cheapest tin t2's which are incredibly neutral and my second favourite pair of budget chi-fi earphones with the zs10 pro's being top


----------



## Slater

IEManiac said:


> I find the ZS10Pro's bass a bit much at times. That's at all.



Try wide bore eartips


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEManiac said:


> I find the ZS10Pro's bass a bit much at times. That's at all.


Try wide bore tips as slater mentioned above, I recommend the azla sedna tips or jvc spiral dots . Or you could reduce the bass with EQ. You can also try using a Silver cable if you believe/hear a difference with cables.


----------



## Johnny Golden

Has anyone tried comply tips with the ZS10 pro's? If so to what result?


----------



## crabdog

Testing underway.


----------



## Slater

crabdog said:


> Testing underway.



I hope this will be the one where KZ *finally* gets the Bluetooth reliability nailed down.


----------



## Sebulr

crabdog said:


> Testing underway.


I hope there are no electrical shorts in them. My s1 dual driver had a short in the left ear piece. 

Do they have large tips? Or only small and medium? My s1 only came with small and medium and its a bugger to get large tips to fit in tws cases. It's a bugbear of mine.


----------



## Slater

Sebulr said:


> I hope there are no electrical shorts in them. My s1 dual driver had a short in the left ear piece.
> 
> Do they have large tips? Or only small and medium? My s1 only came with small and medium and its a bugger to get large tips to fit in tws cases. It's a bugbear of mine.



I’ve had to modify 2 of my TWS (not KZ) charge cases myself to get larger eartips to fit.

To me it’s just plain common sense to design the charge case to fit the largest tips possible. Then all tips would fit - small and medium included.

But to design it the other way around is just ludicrous.


----------



## crabdog

Slater said:


> I hope this will be the one where KZ *finally* gets the Bluetooth reliability nailed down.


Used them about an hour so far across 3 devices (1 phone, 2 DAPs) with no stuttering or drops!


----------



## DjBobby

crabdog said:


> Used them about an hour so far across 3 devices (1 phone, 2 DAPs) with no stuttering or drops!


Any sound impressions or comparisons?


----------



## crabdog

DjBobby said:


> Any sound impressions or comparisons?


A fairly typical KZ-V. Lots of clarity and a touch on the bright side. I'll know better tomorrow after I listen with fresh morning ears.


----------



## axhng

Sebulr said:


> I hope there are no electrical shorts in them. My s1 dual driver had a short in the left ear piece.
> 
> Do they have large tips? Or only small and medium? My s1 only came with small and medium and its a bugger to get large tips to fit in tws cases. It's a bugbear of mine.



actually the one i got only came with a single size, and it's just a pair of spares in the box. :/


----------



## Sebulr

axhng said:


> actually the one i got only came with a single size, and it's just a pair of spares in the box. :/


Hmmm same as the s1 then. It actually said in the manual small and medium tips. Thanks. I'm OUT then


----------



## caprimulgus

crabdog said:


> A fairly typical KZ-V. Lots of clarity and a touch on the bright side. I'll know better tomorrow after I listen with fresh morning ears.



Which wired KZ would you compare them to?


----------



## axhng

1 review up on youtube.


----------



## Ynot1 (Apr 8, 2020)

Realtek and no Aptx adaptive. I can wait for S2 Pro, though there is no guarantee it will exist by next month. But it could.


----------



## FcConstruct (Apr 8, 2020)

Alright, I have the KZ S2 in hand.

15 mins impressions so far:
Sound is acceptable for $30. Sound quality doesn't live up to the bar set by IEMs like the Tin Audio T2 or the BLON BL-03 but is definitely a step up from the KZ days of old. Note that the not stellar sound quality could be due to the TWS module as I'm connected via SBC.
Connection wise, if I'm close to my phone and not moving around much, it's quite stable without dropping much.
But if I'm moving it can start getting a bit dodgy. Max range I've tried was 2 floors but that's the absolute limit before completely cutting out. Realistically, it's more like one to two rooms away. Funnily enough, the way it seems to compensate for dodgy connection is to pitch bend the instruments in the track. Vocals don't seem to be touched but if you've ever played with a digital keyboard's pitch knob, it sounds exactly like when you pitch bend before returning to normal.


----------



## baskingshark

FcConstruct said:


> Alright, I have the KZ S2 in hand.
> 
> 15 mins impressions so far:
> Sound is acceptable for $30. Sound quality doesn't live up to the bar set by IEMs like the Tin Audio T2 or the BLON BL-03 but is definitely a step up from the KZ days of old. Note that the not stellar sound quality could be due to the TWS module as I'm connected via SBC.
> ...



Thanks for your impressions.

How's the battery life ->> maybe u can advise this after a few days of use?
And if u can compare it to some KZs, what is the closest comparison? Thanks in advance!


----------



## axhng

I'm almost done with my own review too, just waiting for some confirmation from Linsoul before I post the video. They added IPX5 to the specs last minute, and just wanted to be sure. Because the vent at the top is pretty big. like _"you can see the LED light on the bottom portion of the earbuds through that vent"_ big. IPX5 should be splash resistant, and it's kinda hard to imagine it being able to keep liquid out with that vent. Probably water repelling coating on the inside.

Anyway to chip in a little, battery life for me is around 3.5hrs of use per charge at around 65-75% volume (it seems louder than previous KZ TWS I've tried like the S1 and T1). Case gives about 3-4 charges. By the way, the case design is a HUGE upgrade over the plasticky S1. Matte finish feels nice, and lid has a spring loaded mechanism which just pop open completely once you give it a push. For 29USD, I wasn't expecting that kind of touch.

Sound wise, to me it feels like a mild U shaped, leaning towards the brighter side. Bass is punchy but not too overwhelming, but sub-bass loses out to something like the GT1 Plus or TrueDot. Mids doesn't sound too recessed I think (for my personal taste it is a tiny bit though), but it does sound a little thin to me. Treble is well extended, and  doesn't sound like it has that usual 8-9KHz peak that I've kinda expected from KZ, so it's not fatiguing to me at all. I can listen to it for hours at normal volume. But at higher volume (like while I'm jogging), the treble can get a bit too intense for my taste sometimes.

It has an airy sounding treble as well, which sounds pretty nice for some tracks with prominent vocals to me, but it's probably a bit much over all. To me it has the tendency to be slightly sibilant, which feels like it's exacerbated by that upper treble. I don't have the S1 with me anymore, but if my memory serves me right the treble doesn't sound as steely too on the S2.

Detail retrieval is not bad for TWS, imaging is fairly average with nothing of note. Overall still feels like a slight improvement over the S1 to me. It still feels like good value to me with the overall package (usb-c, nicer case, decently good sound), and it seems to EQ well enough. Still tinkering around with it, but I'm running something like this (which is the opposite of the DEEP V EQ that Chris from techtablets used in his review ), and it's pretty enjoyable to me overall.


----------



## FcConstruct

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions.
> 
> How's the battery life ->> maybe u can advise this after a few days of use?
> And if u can compare it to some KZs, what is the closest comparison? Thanks in advance!



Heh I just got it in so I can't say much about battery life. I'm guessing about 4-5 hours (?) based on how the battery drained. To be honest, right now my stance on BT IEMs is to buy something reliable even if it costs more (e.g. GBuds). The problem with BT stuff is that the BT module or electronics needs to be rock solid to be worth it. On top of that then it has to sound good.

Sound wise, it doesn't compare well to the other KZ's I've tried. It feels kinda thin, with a recession in the mids that holds back the body of vocal and tonality isn't as organic as it could be. Treble is tizzy, occasionally splashy and can be bright. Bass is alright, adequate quantity, a bit punchy, and midbass leaning.

I think I've been spoiled having reviewed a number of quite good gear lately (that and I've been using the HD600 for 8 hours a day the past 3 weeks due to isolation) that I've forgotten what it's like to step down. For $30, don't expect the world but I'm warming up to it.


----------



## Supremevegbeef (Apr 9, 2020)

I just got shocked from my AS10 with silver cable. I was using my iDSD Nano. It happened once on my Zishan too, but i thought it was the Zishan's fault. I guess it wasn't

This is awful because it seemed like these were too good to be true ..... until now .....

I searched it and found other posts mentioning the silver cable specifically.

Well dang... I gave away my stock cable. Lol


----------



## Nimweth

As you will have gathered, I am very impressed with the BA10. Here's another piece which demonstrates its finesse:


----------



## IEManiac

Nimweth said:


> As you will have gathered, I am very impressed with the BA10. Here's another piece which demonstrates its finesse:



BA10 vs. TRN BA5?


----------



## Nimweth

IEManiac said:


> BA10 vs. TRN BA5?


BA10. Superior in all respects, (unless you have fit problems). BA5 is still a very good IEM, though and one of the best balanced models out there.


----------



## axhng

All done with my review. Basically said what I wanted to in my previous post already about the sound, and the video just touches more on other aspects like design, low latency mode, etc. There are now a handful of other reviews out there too. Now to see when the next KZ Z1 will be out. lol.


----------



## FcConstruct

axhng said:


> All done with my review. Basically said what I wanted to in my previous post already about the sound, and the video just touches more on other aspects like design, low latency mode, etc. There are now a handful of other reviews out there too. Now to see when the next KZ Z1 will be out. lol.




Thanks, this was a superb review. Covered all the non-sound bits very extremely well and your sound impressions of it are pretty close to mine. Perfect length video, well made and executed, non-hyperbolic. Great stuff.


----------



## crabdog

I'll add my S2 review to the list as well. Quite an impressive iem for around the price of a couple of Happy Meals.


----------



## genck

Maybe there should be a KZ wireless thread (or just post in the wireless thread) because I can't possibly be the only one that doesn't care at all about wireless IEM's, just sayin'.


----------



## raccoon city

I like wireless over-ear headphones, but I don't like wireless IEMs, so you're not alone.
I hope KZ isn't done with regular IEMs.


----------



## Slater

genck said:


> Maybe there should be a KZ wireless thread (or just post in the wireless thread) because I can't possibly be the only one that doesn't care at all about wireless IEM's, just sayin'.



Seeing how that’s all that KZ has been making lately, this may become the KZ wireless thread regardless. I sure hope they come out with some new wired models...


----------



## genck

Slater said:


> Seeing how that’s all that KZ has been making lately, this may become the KZ wireless thread regardless. I sure hope they come out with some new wired models...


Yea i know, unsubscribed.


----------



## IEManiac

Nimweth said:


> BA10. Superior in all respects, (unless you have fit problems). BA5 is still a very good IEM, though and one of the best balanced models out there.


BA10 vs. ZS10Pro?


----------



## Nimweth

IEManiac said:


> BA10 vs. ZS10Pro?


BA10 again. ZS10 Pro is a great entertaining V shaped IEM. It has a full-on sound which makes music exciting. It is not truly accurate, though and has occasional metallic timbre in the treble. BA10 is much better balanced with excellent timbre across the frequency range. It has superb soundstage, imaging and separation and layering is top class (this is via balanced out of Xduoo X20 with SPC cable and, of course, my ears and musical preferences!)


----------



## genck

Nimweth said:


> BA10 again. ZS10 Pro is a great entertaining V shaped IEM. It has a full-on sound which makes music exciting. It is not truly accurate, though and has occasional *metallic timbre* in the treble. BA10 is much better balanced with excellent timbre across the frequency range. It has superb soundstage, imaging and separation and layering is top class (this is via balanced out of Xduoo X20 with SPC cable and, of course, my ears and musical preferences!)


The ZS10 Pro doesn't have metallic timbre, at all. People like to say it does, they're wrong. 
People have different hearing and all, sure. People use different tips and all, sure. But to call the ZS 10 Pro "metallic" in terms of treble is incorrect.


----------



## Nimweth (Apr 10, 2020)

genck said:


> The ZS10 Pro doesn't have metallic timbre, at all. People like to say it does, they're wrong.
> People have different hearing and all, sure. People use different tips and all, sure. But to call the ZS 10 Pro "metallic" in terms of treble is incorrect.


Perhaps "metallic" is not the correct term. To my ears there is an emphasis in the upper mids and lower treble which occasionally produces an "edgy" quality but it is not a huge problem, but does affect the timbre of that region. However, the ZS10 Pro is still one of my favourite KZ models, along with ZSX and ED9.


----------



## genck

Nimweth said:


> Perhaps "metallic" is not the correct term. To my ears there is an emphasis in the upper mids and lower treble which occasionally produces an "edgy" quality but it is not a huge problem, but does affect the timbre of that region. However, the ZS10 Pro is still one of my favourite KZ models, along with ZSX and ED9.


Forgiven


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Perhaps "metallic" is not the correct term. To my ears there is an emphasis in the upper mids and lower treble which occasionally produces an "edgy" quality but it is not a huge problem, but does affect the timbre of that region. However, the ZS10 Pro is still one of my favourite KZ models, along with ZSX and ED9.


To me the term "metallic" is a right one, only for me it does not have much negative connotation, rather positive one.

A good direct analogy is, perhaps, steel and synthetic strings on guitars (and violins). Steel strings do sound more edgy and rich, having more overtones (less dampening).

A similar situation is with BAs - less dampened ones (e.g. Bellsing vs. Knowles) sound rich and a bit edgy.

To my ears, KZ IEMs definitely do a very good job in reproducing the violin sound (the real one, which is edgy and rich). Some problem that many prefer the dampened sound, and "steely" is outside of their comfort zone (that I can relate perfectly, ~5-6 years ago I could not stand live violin sound close).
There was a nice post about related points few weeks ago in this thread, to which I meant to reply.

Coupled with a V-shape, the rich and edgy make ZS10 pro a great choice for fun listening, especially for electronic music.


----------



## Zerohour88

I suppose you could do much worse than "adequate" for crin. 2 reviews I've read mentioning the treble issue, which is KZ in a nutshell, but not like its not fixable in a future model:

https://crinacle.com/2020/04/10/kz-s2-tws-mini-review-beater/


----------



## xpedro

does anyone here know how to get rid of that white noise on kz zsn pro? 
would the bluetooth 5.0 adapter solve the problem?
i'm using it with the original cable with mic on a galaxy s8.


----------



## FcConstruct

xpedro said:


> does anyone here know how to get rid of that white noise on kz zsn pro?
> would the bluetooth 5.0 adapter solve the problem?
> i'm using it with the original cable with mic on a galaxy s8.



That's likely the Galaxy S8's 3.5mm jack having a high noise floor for the sensitive BA's in the ZSN Pro. Get a $10 Apple dongle and use that instead. A BT adapter likely won't fix your issue as adapters will probably have noise issues of their own.


----------



## Sebulr

xpedro said:


> does anyone here know how to get rid of that white noise on kz zsn pro?
> would the bluetooth 5.0 adapter solve the problem?
> i'm using it with the original cable with mic on a galaxy s8.


Sounds like an impedance mismatch. Sony players were notorious for it 12 years or so ago. An adaptor with a resistor I. It is a fix, but will reduce the volume quite a bit. An alternative is bt which reduces the hiss quite a bit. I'm talking about the kz Bluetooth here. Or using a USB dac. My kz zs10 pro hisses more than the zsn because it is 16 omhs. My kbear kb10 hisses even more because it is 16 ohms and high sensitivity. It is almost unusable with a Bluetooth module.


----------



## genck

Sebulr said:


> Sounds like an impedance mismatch. Sony players were notorious for it 12 years or so ago. An adaptor with a resistor I. It is a fix, but will reduce the volume quite a bit. An alternative is bt which reduces the hiss quite a bit. I'm talking about the kz Bluetooth here. Or using a USB dac. My kz zs10 pro hisses more than the zsn because it is 16 omhs. My kbear kb10 hisses even more because it is 16 ohms and high sensitivity. It is almost unusable with a Bluetooth module.


Sounds like you need a better Amp, there is zero hiss on the Asgard 3


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 12, 2020)

A little indulgence - a second pair of ZS10 Pro in Glare Blue. Still my FAV IEM at $30 and under.


----------



## FcConstruct

Alright, my KZ S2 review is up.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-s2.24302/reviews#item-review-23520


----------



## genck

IEManiac said:


> A little indulgence - a second pair of ZS10 Pro in Glare Blue. Still my FAV IEM at $30 and under.


Nice


----------



## Slater (Apr 10, 2020)

.


IEManiac said:


> A little indulgence - a second pair of ZS10 Pro in Glare Blue. Still my FAV IEM at $30 and under.



Wow, looks nice. I love the colored accents on the face plates.

I also like the look of the special Royal Blue version of the ZSN Pro and the Royal Blue ZS10 Pro.




I think it’s cool that KZ comes out with special color versions, for those that want that extra little touch of personalization.

To this day I regret not getting one of the special edition colors of the ZST. Those were uber rare, and there are a few lucky HeadFiers who own not only 1 but even multiple versions!


----------



## baskingshark

xpedro said:


> does anyone here know how to get rid of that white noise on kz zsn pro?
> would the bluetooth 5.0 adapter solve the problem?
> i'm using it with the original cable with mic on a galaxy s8.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3210#post-15209679

Options to improve hissing IEMs:
1) Inline volume controller
2) Impedance mismatch device
3) Amp

Most of the time once music starts the hiss is not so apparent, maybe only during softer parts of music it is more obvious. Options one and two may or may not affect sound quality, so option 3 is a better option IMHO. Option one is probably the cheapest.


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 10, 2020)

...


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 10, 2020)

...


----------



## IEManiac

Sorry, wrong thread. Will amend.


----------



## SoundChoice (Apr 11, 2020)

genck said:


> Maybe there should be a KZ wireless thread (or just post in the wireless thread) because I can't possibly be the only one that doesn't care at all about wireless IEM's, just sayin'.



there’s a true wireless thread, but in comparison to the cheapest of cheap  offerings there, the KZ (maybe their new stuff is different) stands out as a notable joke.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

Ok, is the zs10 pro actually that good?  I always thought it would not compare possibly to my zsx or as10, but I might have to try the set i got for my gf. She loves them.

I don't have my stock cables anymore, so i am thinking about buying another set of as10 to use with stock cable. BUT i hated how the stock cable seems to lack a bit of treble sparkle compared to KZ Silver cables. However after the static shock occurances I plan to only use a stock cable with kz in the future.

OR are there any brands making high quality C-pin cables that dont cost an arm and a leg...


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 12, 2020)

Supremevegbeef said:


> Ok, is the zs10 pro actually that good?  I always thought it would not compare possibly to my zsx or as10, but I might have to try the set i got for my gf. She loves them.
> 
> I don't have my stock cables anymore, so i am thinking about buying another set of as10 to use with stock cable. BUT i hated how the stock cable seems to lack a bit of treble sparkle compared to KZ Silver cables. However after the static shock occurances I plan to only use a stock cable with kz in the future.
> 
> OR are there any brands making high quality C-pin cables that dont cost an arm and a leg...


Actions speak louder than words - I bought a second pair. For the price - $30 - I haven't heard anything that sounds and looks better.


----------



## courierdriver

Supremevegbeef said:


> Ok, is the zs10 pro actually that good?  I always thought it would not compare possibly to my zsx or as10, but I might have to try the set i got for my gf. She loves them.
> 
> I don't have my stock cables anymore, so i am thinking about buying another set of as10 to use with stock cable. BUT i hated how the stock cable seems to lack a bit of treble sparkle compared to KZ Silver cables. However after the static shock occurances I plan to only use a stock cable with kz in the future.
> 
> OR are there any brands making high quality C-pin cables that dont cost an arm and a leg...


Yeah, ZS10 PRO is THAT good. Stock cable is insufficient and definitely needs to be upgraded. If your source will allow it, go balanced; and get a nice balanced upgrade cable. These iems respond well to better amplification and upgraded balanced cables. My most listened to iems for quite a while now.


----------



## courierdriver (Apr 12, 2020)

I also have several sets that are more expensive but I like the ZS10 PRO  more than those, overall.
Edit: These really compete with much higher priced iems. Honestly, my favorite iems that I currently own. They are definitely W shaped, but I'm in total love of them. These are awesome for older rock music and perform great with old school dance and hip hop. Even old school metal like Iron maiden and Sabbath sounds awesome on this set.


----------



## IEManiac

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, ZS10 PRO is THAT good. Stock cable is insufficient and definitely needs to be upgraded. If your source will allow it, go balanced; and get a nice balanced upgrade cable. These iems respond well to better amplification and upgraded balanced cables. My most listened to iems for quite a while now.


Can you recommend a single - ended cable?


----------



## courierdriver (Apr 12, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> Can you recommend a single - ended cable?


JCally 8 core is good (nice enough highs, mids are excellent and bass is killer but a bit loose with great impact). Tripowin Zonie or C8 is also excellent (tighter bass, warmer mids, and slightly clearer highs). I have the Zonie not C8 but pretty sure they aren't that much different. It depends on the type of sound signature you prefer. JCally cable is a solid buy though if you are looking to upgrade from the KZ cables, imho. Less than $20. For about 10 bucks more though, the Tripowin cables are softer and seem to be better built, with better connectors and strain relief on the ends. Which ever you decide on, they are much nicer, better constructed and more premium than the stock cables that come with ANY KZ iem.
Edit: I have both the Jcally single ended and balanced cable, and both are a huge upgrade from the stock KZ cable. Only have the Tripowin Zonie in balanced.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

Wow OK. Tomorrow i'll ask to borrow them for a quick listen. Unless it has the c pin cable, i'll only be able to try it with the stock cable. yeah, i'm well aware the KZ stock cables leave much to be desired..... Honestly aside from the easy tangling, my biggest issue with KZ stock cables is they remove just a bit of sparkle from the treble enough to make it dull without the upgrade cables. But i feel like the silver cables make the IEMs more sensitive to static electricity.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

IEManiac said:


> Can you recommend a single - ended cable?


For the last 3 kz i have owned i always elected to upgrade to whatever upgrade cable KZ offers. usually something with silver and about $15. for SQ reasons not looks.


----------



## dh0licious

nraymond said:


> I believe so. I recently came across this "KB EAR" (also "KBEAR") brand cable:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RZY5C8D/
> 
> ...



I've read that QDC is reverse polarity to the KZ 0.75 2-pin cables.

See

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/qdc-discussion-and-impressions-thread.804170/page-27#post-14794716

and

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/qdc-discussion-and-impressions-thread.804170/page-27#post-14815052

So looks like there is risk of using QDC type cables on KZ products, unless anyone can advise otherwise.


----------



## PhonoPhi

dh0licious said:


> I've read that QDC is reverse polarity to the KZ 0.75 2-pin cables.
> 
> See
> 
> ...


It has been discussed.
Original "QDC" was different.
Now they sell "QDC" for KZ and CCA at least for the balanced one. I checked with 10+ 8 & 16 core cables that I have - they all were right for KZ (one happened to be with one side different, so it is always worth to double check polarity).


----------



## dh0licious

PhonoPhi said:


> It has been discussed.
> Original "QDC" was different.
> Now they sell "QDC" for KZ and CCA at least for the balanced one. I checked with 10+ 8 & 16 core cables that I have - they all were right for KZ (one happened to be with one side different, so it is always worth to double check polarity).



Thanks for the quick response.

Could you take a moment and link me to some of these "QDC" for KZ and CCA cables?

Also, what's the best way for me to check polartiy - with a multimeter or any other way? Any instructions or videos to help with this?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Supremevegbeef said:


> For the last 3 kz i have owned i always elected to upgrade to whatever upgrade cable KZ offers. usually something with silver and about $15. for SQ reasons not looks.


For the sound quality - one need to be first sure that "silver" is real silver, not tin plating or alloys.
Then another thing to consider - if copper and silver would be any noticeably different - there would be measurements showing this difference (many have rigs, the sensitivity is there to top the ear resolution).
To me the comfort and the aesthetics of different colours make it definitely worth and enjoyable. I also do check that the resistance is below 0.5 Ohm not to be any factor.


----------



## arammco

Hi guys, I want to buy one pair of kz and try it but I don't understand which model is the right way to start. I've seen some of you suggested the ks10 pro (30€) or zsx (40€) but the price I've found is a little high (just don't want to waste money on wrong products). I'm new in this world of "cheap" hifi/chifi and I read about to change the cable (another 20/15€) for a better sound and still i did not know if i like the kz sound. 
Can someone just tips about them? Can i go with cheaper kz and then buy a better one or go all-in with better quality? 
Thanks in advance!


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 12, 2020)

The impedance of the cable, like the output impedance of the source device, matters relative to the impedance of the IEM. It is not an absolute per Ohm's Law.


----------



## PhonoPhi

dh0licious said:


> Thanks for the quick response.
> 
> Could you take a moment and link me to some of these "QDC" for KZ and CCA cables?
> 
> Also, what's the best way for me to check polartiy - with a multimeter or any other way? Any instructions or videos to help with this?


Any simple multimeter works.

Here is one of mobile links:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40002...er_id=c398f8fd914d465e9f43597c2be4e1f2&is_c=N

If it does not work (I am away from PC at the moment), for most 16-core (and many 8-core) cables , there are multiple options for QDCs. (I checked 2.5 balanced ones for KB Ear, Y...o, Hifigear).


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEManiac said:


> The resistance of the cable, like the output impedance of the source device, matters relative to the impedance of the IEM. It is not an absolute per Ohm's Law.


Absolutely.
I personally do not buy IEMs with the impedance below 15-16 Ohm, the very least since not many DACs/DAPs can provide corresponding high currents without distortions.
Then < 0.5 Ohm is < 1/32 and the cables are not a factor in the circuit and their fit and colours are a bonus to the enjoyment of music


----------



## dh0licious

PhonoPhi said:


> Any simple multimeter works.
> 
> Here is one of mobile links:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40002...er_id=c398f8fd914d465e9f43597c2be4e1f2&is_c=N
> ...



Thanks, although the link you provided isn't for a balanced cable (at least it doesn't say balanced).

Also from what I'm seeing, only 2.5mm and 4.5mm cables are available in balanced, not 3.5mm. Is that right?

I don't really *need* balanced as my IEM will be plugged into a behind-the-neck bluetooth cable, not a DAC/AMP. however it will be 3.5mm.


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 12, 2020)

arammco said:


> Hi guys, I want to buy one pair of kz and try it but I don't understand which model is the right way to start. I've seen some of you suggested the ks10 pro (30€) or zsx (40€) but the price I've found is a little high (just don't want to waste money on wrong products). I'm new in this world of "cheap" hifi/chifi and I read about to change the cable (another 20/15€) for a better sound and still i did not know if i like the kz sound.
> Can someone just tips about them? Can i go with cheaper kz and then buy a better one or go all-in with better quality?
> Thanks in advance!


Whether the ZSX flagship sounds better than the KZ ZS10Pro is a matter of debate and of taste. If the ZSX does indeed sound 'better' it will be marginally so, a side grade.

The KZ ZS10 Pro is the least expensive IEM I am confortable recommending. There is nothing audibly wrong with the KZ cable. It's just too long and a boring brown.


----------



## arammco

IEManiac said:


> Whether the ZSX flagship sounds better than the KZ ZS10Pro is a matter of debate and of taste. If the ZSX does indeed sound 'better' it will be marginally so, a side grade.
> 
> The KZ ZS10 Pro is the least expensive IEM I am confortable recommending. There is nothing audibly wrong with the KZ cable. It's just too long and a boring brown.




Thanks, I will buy the ks10 pro then, any recommended link/shop? (PM if this type of request is not appreciated on this forum)


----------



## PhonoPhi

dh0licious said:


> Thanks, although the link you provided isn't for a balanced cable (at least it doesn't say balanced).
> 
> Also from what I'm seeing, only 2.5mm and 4.5mm cables are available in balanced, not 3.5mm. Is that right?
> 
> I don't really *need* balanced as my IEM will be plugged into a behind-the-neck bluetooth cable, not a DAC/AMP. however it will be 3.5mm.


The link is to the cable, for which many options are available including QDC that works with KZ/CCA.
I use largely 2.5 balanced (3.5 balanced is very rare), these cables I measured and can state confidently, including the one in the link.
Others measured non-balanced 3.5, no specific concerns were raised, as far as I know, but again I summarized my experience.


----------



## IEManiac

arammco said:


> Thanks, I will buy the ks10 pro then, any recommended link/shop? (PM if this type of request is not appreciated on this forum)


I am in Indonesia so probably very far from you. I just got my second pair for about USD30 from Tokopedia.


----------



## dh0licious

PhonoPhi said:


> The link is to the cable, for which many options are available including QDC that works with KZ/CCA.
> I use largely 2.5 balanced (3.5 balanced is very rare), these cables I measured and can state confidently, including the one in the link.
> Others measured non-balanced 3.5, no specific concerns were raised, as far as I know, but again I summarized my experience.



That's helpful, thanks for your input.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Supremevegbeef said:


> Ok, is the zs10 pro actually that good?  I always thought it would not compare possibly to my zsx or as10, but I might have to try the set i got for my gf. She loves them.
> 
> I don't have my stock cables anymore, so i am thinking about buying another set of as10 to use with stock cable. BUT i hated how the stock cable seems to lack a bit of treble sparkle compared to KZ Silver cables. However after the static shock occurances I plan to only use a stock cable with kz in the future.
> 
> OR are there any brands making high quality C-pin cables that dont cost an arm and a leg...


In my opinion, all 3 are great designs of KZ, and gear to different preferences.

ZSX (as the most recent) designed to be a bit more universal, as much as it is possible.
ZS10 pro - great for electronic music
AS10 (the oldest of them by far, but still quite competitive) - for classical music.

(A bit simplistically, of course, just in fewwords)


----------



## Mouseman

arammco said:


> Hi guys, I want to buy one pair of kz and try it but I don't understand which model is the right way to start. I've seen some of you suggested the ks10 pro (30€) or zsx (40€) but the price I've found is a little high (just don't want to waste money on wrong products). I'm new in this world of "cheap" hifi/chifi and I read about to change the cable (another 20/15€) for a better sound and still i did not know if i like the kz sound.
> Can someone just tips about them? Can i go with cheaper kz and then buy a better one or go all-in with better quality?
> Thanks in advance!


If your budget will allow, IMHO the ZSX is significantly better than the ZS10 Pro. While I loved the ZS10, it can't compete in SQ, staging and performance. Paired with a balanced cable (I have a really nice KBear) and the right source, it really is a "Terminator" like they have called it.


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 12, 2020)

The thing is that once you go up on price above the ZS10 Pro, you'll be running into the likes of BQEYZ and TRN. In other words, a move higher up in price will/should move you away from KZ. For me, the next step up in price from the ZS10 Pro moves me into BQEYZ territory, the KC2 to be exact. For me KZ becomes noncompetitive above $30.


----------



## arammco

Mouseman said:


> If your budget will allow, IMHO the ZSX is significantly better than the ZS10 Pro. While I loved the ZS10, it can't compete in SQ, staging and performance. Paired with a balanced cable (I have a really nice KBear) and the right source, it really is a "Terminator" like they have called it.


I've found out there are some seller on aliexpress who sells the ZSX at 35 vs 30 of ZS10... Hard battle. 
The cable make that difference? I will just listen to music on streaming and maybe playing game.


----------



## Mouseman

arammco said:


> I've found out there are some seller on aliexpress who sells the ZSX at 35 vs 30 of ZS10... Hard battle.
> The cable make that difference? I will just listen to music on streaming and maybe playing game.


If you can find that deal, take it. It's the drivers that make the difference, not the cable. And it's not just the one extra BA, there's other "special sauce" in there.


----------



## whitete

Need some help here. I’m getting the ZS10 Pro and don’t know what type of cable it takes. C pin, B pin or something else?  Thanks!


----------



## Sebulr

whitete said:


> Need some help here. I’m getting the ZS10 Pro and don’t know what type of cable it takes. C pin, B pin or something else?  Thanks!


C pin


----------



## whitete

Thank you!  I’m new to all this.


----------



## PhonoPhi

whitete said:


> Need some help here. I’m getting the ZS10 Pro and don’t know what type of cable it takes. C pin, B pin or something else?  Thanks!


C pin, also (perhaps not fully correctly labelled) QDC.
So if a seller mentions KZ/CCA models with pin C in their listings, e.g. ZSN, ZS10 pro, AS16, their QDC selections should work.
(Pin C is KZ-specific classification)


----------



## dh0licious

PhonoPhi said:


> C pin, also (perhaps not fully correctly labelled) QDC.
> So if a seller mentions KZ/CCA models with pin C in their listings, e.g. ZSN, ZS10 pro, AS16, their QDC selections should work.
> (Pin C is KZ-specific classification)



i do believe if using QDC on a KZ IEM that takes Pin C, you need to check the polarity first?


----------



## whitete

Excellent. Thank you!



Sebulr said:


> C pin





PhonoPhi said:


> C pin, also (perhaps not fully correctly labelled) QDC.
> So if a seller mentions KZ/CCA models with pin C in their listings, e.g. ZSN, ZS10 pro, AS16, their QDC selections should work.
> (Pin C is KZ-specific classification)


----------



## PhonoPhi

dh0licious said:


> i do believe if using QDC on a KZ IEM that takes Pin C, you need to check the polarity first?


It is always a good idea to check polarity for all cables (random mistakes happen - 1 out of ~20 in my measurements).

 All what I bought as "QDC" (16-cores, balanced) work correctly.

Again, my limited take is that most sellers simply do not use KZ-specific  C-pin naming.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Some early impressions of the S2 for anyone interested.


----------



## Casine (Apr 12, 2020)

Hi, can someone tell me how the kz tip sizes translate to spiral dots, final e, symbio and Sedna tips. While enjoying my AS10s, I realize the seal isn’t what it could be. I’m using the large and one ear feels fairly tight(could be tighter) the other ear is lose. I just flipped them inside out, per a post I saw, and they are bigger this way. I still want to get new tips, so any info on how the sizes translate to the tips mentioned above would be much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Slater (Apr 12, 2020)

Casine said:


> Hi, can someone tell me how the kz tip sizes translate to spiral dots, final e, symbio and Sedna tips. While enjoying my AS10s, I realize the seal isn’t what it could be. I’m using the large and one ear feels fairly tight(could be tighter) the other ear is lose. I just flipped them inside out, per a post I saw, and they are bigger this way. I still want to get new tips, so any info on how the sizes translate to the tips mentioned above would be much appreciated. Thanks



If the KZ Starline L tips are still too small, you may have what can be considered ‘big’ ears.

I can’t speak for the other tips you listed, but the SednaFit and Spiral Dot tips are available in additional sizes that can be considered ‘in between’ sizes. So in addition to SML, they have in between sizes of XS, SM (in between small and medium), and ML (in between medium and large). I am not sure if they have even larger sizes than large, but they might.

Here is a size chart that you might be able to guide you on sizes:

KZ Starline:


SednaFit:


JVC Spiral Dot:


So the L Starline is 13.5mm OD and the L Spiral Dots and L SednaEarfit are both 14.0mm OD. Not a whole lot larger, but that extra little bit may make all the difference for you.

Separately from the physical size, the SednaFit and Spiral Dots differ in that they are a wide bore tip, as opposed to the medium bore of the Starlines. This will affect the sound, but how varies with each person and between different IEMs. So you just have to test them and see how you like the sound difference.

Here’s 2 threads that you might also find helpful:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/big-eared-people-unite.697211/

That last thread is dedicated specifically for identifying and discussing large eartips. There are numerous options discussed in there.

Finally, I don't know if you like foam tips or not, but many people with big ears find that mounting foam tips backwards allows the tips to fit when other tips fail. The reason is that the foam tips are cone shaped, so by flipping them around backwards you are actually putting the largest part of the tip in your ear (effectively making the tip as big as possible). So maybe give that a try. This is the only photo I could find. It's not that great of a photo, but you can get the general idea of what it looks like backwards, and why it effectively makes the foam tip 'larger':


----------



## Casine (Apr 12, 2020)

Thanks A lot! Yeah, I just had the realization that I might indeed have giganto ear canals..lol. I hadn’t thought to just look on the tips sites to see the measurements. Spiral dots and Sedna are a little bigger and might work. Symbios seem too small, but I read they fit bigger than they seem. Final E has an extra large, though can’t find measurements. Maybe I’ll get some symbios so I can put there foam piece in other tips to make em bigger. Also think I’ll be
ordering some chi-fi foams that Dsnuts has posted about that sound very similar to spiral dots.
    Yeah, I was aware of the sound differences, I think I’ll be getting some slightly less bright upgrade IEMs anyway, like TRI I3 or TSMR 3 Pro, so maybe wide bores will be fine. These inverted Starlines are actually giving a pretty good seal and giving better sound, just seems like it’s prob not optimal. Thanks again.


----------



## Casine

Thanks for those links! I’m about to get into them.


----------



## NeonHD

Did the KZ ED4 ever get revised? They still seem to be selling on AE, wonder if it's just an old batch.


----------



## NeonHD

NeonHD said:


> Did the KZ ED4 ever get revised? They still seem to be selling on AE, wonder if it's just an old batch.



To answer my own question, just saw this in the description page.






And the reviews are pretty much saying how sibilant it is, so yep that's the ED4 we all love and hate.


----------



## TedJ70

Hi all, long time lurker first time poster. I've not been following KZ's releases closely of late: would it be correct to say that most of their recent offerings have been TWS models? I have and enjoy the ZS10 Pro, but am interested in any wired releases they may have planned.


----------



## baskingshark

TedJ70 said:


> Hi all, long time lurker first time poster. I've not been following KZ's releases closely of late: would it be correct to say that most of their recent offerings have been TWS models? I have and enjoy the ZS10 Pro, but am interested in any wired releases they may have planned.



Yes, KZ hasn't released anything wired since the KZ ZSX (Terminator), which is the spiritual successor of the KZ ZS10 Pro.


----------



## TC44

Supremevegbeef said:


> Ok, is the zs10 pro actually that good?  I always thought it would not compare possibly to my zsx or as10, but I might have to try the set i got for my gf. She loves them.
> 
> I don't have my stock cables anymore, so i am thinking about buying another set of as10 to use with stock cable. BUT i hated how the stock cable seems to lack a bit of treble sparkle compared to KZ Silver cables. However after the static shock occurances I plan to only use a stock cable with kz in the future.
> 
> OR are there any brands making high quality C-pin cables that dont cost an arm and a leg...


If you're getting a shock from your IEMs it's not due to the cable.  Does this happen when your iDSD Nano is being charged?  If so, your power supply may be passing AC.


----------



## revand

B9Scrambler said:


> Some early impressions of the S2 for anyone interested.





B9Scrambler said:


> Some early impressions of the S2 for anyone interested.



Anyone tried the S2 for running? Is it possible to use it for a serious runner?


----------



## B9Scrambler

revand said:


> Anyone tried the S2 for running? Is it possible to use it for a serious runner?



I used them during a bit of mountain biking (only the left ear piece in though) and didn't have any issues with them coming loose. Still, I think it will come down to how well they fit and seal. Since it doesn't utilize ear hooks that seal is everything. Might be better to look at the previous version with ear hooks (E10 I think) for serious running.


----------



## axhng

revand said:


> Anyone tried the S2 for running? Is it possible to use it for a serious runner?



For casual running, i find it okay. The seal is not the tightest for my ears, but that also means that I don't hear as much thumping in my ears compared to something like the Haylou GT1 Plus. I normally just do like 30mins and occasionally 1hour session, and I do feel it loosen a little sometimes, but not enough to feel like it will drop out. So it's still usable for me. Sound wise, depends on what you like to listen to. It has a good quantity of bass, and enough treble to keep things fun. But normally i have it at a slightly higher volume while running, and in those cases, the mids can sound a little behind the mix, which is what I like to hear from my music most of the time. But the bright side is that if the treble isn't too intense for you (i use poweramp to EQ a little), it's able to get really loud, so you can just pump up the volume if you want to.

For like SERIOUS running like a marathon, if you can run a full marathon below 3.5 hours, then this is probably fine? since that's how long the battery typically lasts. haha. Another thing is that while they say it is IPX5... the vent at the top of the earbuds are big. Like i can peer in and see the LED lights that is supposed to be near the bottom of the shell. So... yeah..   probably not my top choice for sports.


----------



## whitete

This might be stupid question but I’m new at all this. I’ve ordered the ZSX and want to use the **** replacement cables. Do I get QDC or TFZ? Thank you in advance!


----------



## mnstrchld

whitete said:


> This might be stupid question but I’m new at all this. I’ve ordered the ZSX and want to use the **** replacement cables. Do I get QDC or TFZ? Thank you in advance!



QDC! TFZ is an NX7 plug and won't fit.


----------



## whitete

Awesome!  Thanks! 


mnstrchld said:


> QDC! TFZ is an NX7 plug and won't fit.


----------



## jthew

Hi All!  I have age related high frequency hearing loss.  I have the ZSR.  The boosted high end helps.  How do the other models compare?  Is anything in their line brighter?


----------



## B9Scrambler

jthew said:


> Hi All!  I have age related high frequency hearing loss.  I have the ZSR.  The boosted high end helps.  How do the other models compare?  Is anything in their line brighter?



ZSN Pro is really bright. Might enioy that one.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

B9Scrambler said:


> ZSN Pro is really bright. Might enioy that one.


I don't have hearing loss (recently measured by an audiologist!) and don't find the ZSN pro bright.


----------



## revand

axhng said:


> For casual running, i find it okay. The seal is not the tightest for my ears, but that also means that I don't hear as much thumping in my ears compared to something like the Haylou GT1 Plus. I normally just do like 30mins and occasionally 1hour session, and I do feel it loosen a little sometimes, but not enough to feel like it will drop out. So it's still usable for me. Sound wise, depends on what you like to listen to. It has a good quantity of bass, and enough treble to keep things fun. But normally i have it at a slightly higher volume while running, and in those cases, the mids can sound a little behind the mix, which is what I like to hear from my music most of the time. But the bright side is that if the treble isn't too intense for you (i use poweramp to EQ a little), it's able to get really loud, so you can just pump up the volume if you want to.
> 
> For like SERIOUS running like a marathon, if you can run a full marathon below 3.5 hours, then this is probably fine? since that's how long the battery typically lasts. haha. Another thing is that while they say it is IPX5... the vent at the top of the earbuds are big. Like i can peer in and see the LED lights that is supposed to be near the bottom of the shell. So... yeah..   probably not my top choice for sports.



Many thanks for your detailed reply. Actually my brother in law is the runner and I was thinking to buy one for him as a gift.
Anyone compared the S2 and Fiio LC-BT2 neckband for running?


----------



## axhng

revand said:


> Many thanks for your detailed reply. Actually my brother in law is the runner and I was thinking to buy one for him as a gift.
> Anyone compared the S2 and Fiio LC-BT2 neckband for running?



No problem at all. I've not used the Fiio LC-BT2, but I do have the KZ aptx HD cable, and used to use neckbuds like the Jaybird X2 for jogging. For my personal taste, I really dislike how those feel while running since I sweat a lot + Singapore's weather is humid AF. when the band is around my neck, it makes it hard to turn my head and check my blindspots when I'm trying to overtake someone in the park, or checking traffic. Maybe the more solid neckband might make it better. Another thing is durability. For me those neckbuds typically last me like a couple of months before being damaged by sweat (normally at the controls area) despite being touted as "sweat-proof". Maybe it's just me and I have a secret super power of extra corrosive sweat, but I got tired of getting them replaced all the time. For me TWS earbuds absolutely made me enjoy my jog more.

Sound wise, the Fiio LC-BT2 which is around S$69.00 is already more expensive than the KZ S2. But it gives the potential of pairing it with something that sounds nicer of course. With my KZ bluetooth cable I could use it with the ZSX, or after I modded the cable a bit, I could even use the Blon BL-03 with it. But then it probably wouldn't be as water resistant, and it'll still be a lot more expensive. I think it would be good if you could get a sense of what type he prefers. Another thing to consider is that some runners like to have some situational awareness too while jogging, so they might not like the in-ear type which blocks out too much noise. But if he has no preference, I do think TWS is the way to go.


----------



## revand

axhng said:


> No problem at all. I've not used the Fiio LC-BT2, but I do have the KZ aptx HD cable, and used to use neckbuds like the Jaybird X2 for jogging. For my personal taste, I really dislike how those feel while running since I sweat a lot + Singapore's weather is humid AF. when the band is around my neck, it makes it hard to turn my head and check my blindspots when I'm trying to overtake someone in the park, or checking traffic. Maybe the more solid neckband might make it better. Another thing is durability. For me those neckbuds typically last me like a couple of months before being damaged by sweat (normally at the controls area) despite being touted as "sweat-proof". Maybe it's just me and I have a secret super power of extra corrosive sweat, but I got tired of getting them replaced all the time. For me TWS earbuds absolutely made me enjoy my jog more.
> 
> Sound wise, the Fiio LC-BT2 which is around S$69.00 is already more expensive than the KZ S2. But it gives the potential of pairing it with something that sounds nicer of course. With my KZ bluetooth cable I could use it with the ZSX, or after I modded the cable a bit, I could even use the Blon BL-03 with it. But then it probably wouldn't be as water resistant, and it'll still be a lot more expensive. I think it would be good if you could get a sense of what type he prefers. Another thing to consider is that some runners like to have some situational awareness too while jogging, so they might not like the in-ear type which blocks out too much noise. But if he has no preference, I do think TWS is the way to go.



Thanks again  Your sweat can be used as a secret weapon later 
You are quite right these neckbands could be felt after some times like a yoke...


----------



## dh0licious

axhng said:


> No problem at all. I've not used the Fiio LC-BT2, but I do have the KZ aptx HD cable, and used to use neckbuds like the Jaybird X2 for jogging. For my personal taste, I really dislike how those feel while running since I sweat a lot + Singapore's weather is humid AF.



To be clear you didn't like the KZ AptX HD or the Jaybird?

What were your overall opinions of the KZ AptX HD? I've got them coming in the mail, really needed something I could take to the gym and use for calls.


----------



## axhng

dh0licious said:


> To be clear you didn't like the KZ AptX HD or the Jaybird?
> 
> What were your overall opinions of the KZ AptX HD? I've got them coming in the mail, really needed something I could take to the gym and use for calls.



In general i just didn't like the way the cable goes around the neck, and that's the same for both. I don't really use the KZ cable much at all, but whenever i do, I kinda like being able to enjoy better sounding IEMs somewhat wirelessly. I find it decent in terms of sound quality. Some have complained about some noise when there is silence is a track, but i'm not particularly sensitive to that since I probably have a bit of tinnitus.

I've not tried using it for calls though, but I find them a bit finicky in terms of how the cable hangs. It's a little too long for my liking, and too fiddly. The pre-formed ear-hooks are formed in a way that doesn't quite fit my ears too, so over time they kinda feel like they keep trying to pull the IEMs out of my ears. But because they're cheap, and I don't really use them much in the first place, I ended up experimenting and modding it a little. I used a lighter to heat up and reshape the ear hooks so they fit my ears better, and used a tiny bit of heat shrink tubing (something like electrical tape would probably be easier) to sort of shorten the cable a little and make it move around a bit less.


----------



## jeromeaparis

jthew said:


> Hi All!  I have age related high frequency hearing loss.  I have the ZSR.  The boosted high end helps.  How do the other models compare?  Is anything in their line brighter?



ZSR is a big old one from the times of the ZS6
ZSN is brighter than ZSR, if you need more resolution & level in the highs and overall, try AS10 (all BA)


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> .
> 
> 
> Wow, looks nice. I love the colored accents on the face plates.
> ...



You and me both brother! To the gentleman with the high end hearing  loss the ZST is another model many complained of extra high frequency as a consideration Just ordered two more pairs of ZSX because after all this time in this hobby the ZSX has become for me in portable speakers what the Vandersteen 2C is to home speakers (possibly the best bargain in iem's today but remember that's just one moron's opinion). I know it was said that the Terminators may be the end of the hybrid road for KZ and I'm inclined to believe that is a true statement and at this point in the hobby and what I've spent on iem's alone I could easily own 300 pairs of ZSX's LOL


----------



## PhonoPhi

Podster said:


> You and me both brother! To the gentleman with the high end hearing  loss the ZST is another model many complained of extra high frequency as a consideration Just ordered two more pairs of ZSX because after all this time in this hobby the ZSX has become for me in portable speakers what the Vandersteen 2C is to home speakers (possibly the best bargain in iem's today but remember that's just one moron's opinion). I know it was said that the Terminators may be the end of the hybrid road for KZ and I'm inclined to believe that is a true statement and at this point in the hobby and what I've spent on iem's alone I could easily own 300 pairs of ZSX's LOL


You can always get CCA C12 for the diversity, especially if you appreciate (just a touch more) treble 

How does  ZSX compare to ZS7?
(ZS7 is the only one I am currently missing for the last two years of KZ & CCA)


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Podster said:


> You and me both brother! To the gentleman with the high end hearing  loss the ZST is another model many complained of extra high frequency as a consideration Just ordered two more pairs of ZSX because after all this time in this hobby the ZSX has become for me in portable speakers what the Vandersteen 2C is to home speakers (possibly the best bargain in iem's today but remember that's just one moron's opinion). I know it was said that the Terminators may be the end of the hybrid road for KZ and I'm inclined to believe that is a true statement and at this point in the hobby and what I've spent on iem's alone I could easily own 300 pairs of ZSX's LOL


What cable is that? I'm looking for an upgrade for my ZSX.


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> You and me both brother! To the gentleman with the high end hearing  loss the ZST is another model many complained of extra high frequency as a consideration Just ordered two more pairs of ZSX because after all this time in this hobby the ZSX has become for me in portable speakers what the Vandersteen 2C is to home speakers (possibly the best bargain in iem's today but remember that's just one moron's opinion). I know it was said that the Terminators may be the end of the hybrid road for KZ and I'm inclined to believe that is a true statement and at this point in the hobby and what I've spent on iem's alone I could easily own 300 pairs of ZSX's LOL


I feel the same about the ZS10 PRO, yet all the great things that are being said about the ZSX are making me want to order a set to try for myself. Nice pic of your set, btw. What cable are you using on it because it looks killer. Nicehck perhaps??


----------



## Nimweth (Apr 16, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> You can always get CCA C12 for the diversity, especially if you appreciate (just a touch more) treble
> 
> How does  ZSX compare to ZS7?
> (ZS7 is the only one I am currently missing for the last two years of KZ & CCA)


I love the ZS7. I personally prefer it to the ZSX, though they are both excellent and in my top 5 KZ: (BA10, ZS7, ZSX, ED9, ZSN Pro). Edit: ZS10 Pro, not ZSN. Sorry!


----------



## Podster (Apr 15, 2020)

rogthefrog said:


> What cable is that? I'm looking for an upgrade for my ZSX.



THX @courierdriver , KB Ear 16 core KZ QDC on the matching gray cable. I have the same cable on my ZS7 but obviously with KZ 2 pin.   Wait I lied, ZS7's have the silver gray TRN 16 core but my TFZ Queens and Secret Gardens have the KB EAR TFZ 16 cores!


----------



## Slater

Can anyone please compare KZ ZSX and CCA C12 to the ZS7?

The ZS7 is my favorite KZ from the first time I heard it.

I’d love to know how it compares to the ZSX and C12. I don’t care about driver count, fit, accessories, etc. I’m talking from the standpoint of sound signature only.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Can anyone please compare KZ ZSX and CCA C12 to the ZS7?
> 
> The ZS7 is my favorite KZ from the first time I heard it.
> 
> I’d love to know how it compares to the ZSX and C12. I don’t care about driver count, fit, accessories, etc. I’m talking from the standpoint of sound signature only.


Yeah, I second that. Don't have the ZS7, but luvin my ZS10 PRO. Even with all the other newer stuff and brands coming out, I still wanna try some of the newer offerings from KZ and CCA. I'm torn between the ZSX and the C12. It's tough because I listen to so many different genres of music. Right now, I'm listening to Blues...Walter Trout, specifically. Last night, I was jammin Black Keys and Nethanial Rateliff and the Night Sweats. Night before, it was Rap and Hip Hop. I'm all over the spectrum. My ZS10 PRO works with it all. No, it ain't perfect with all these genres, but it doesn't let me down or suck with anything I listen to. Lots of more expensive sets only cater to one or 2 genres, and fall short on the other stuff. Kz works great with alot of music. I've got Urbanfun ISSO14 on the way, as well as a kilobuck iem from Fearless audio (Lancelot). Curious to see how either of them stack up to my current favorite KZ.


----------



## PureHardRock

Zsx vs as16?


----------



## Podster (Apr 16, 2020)

Slater said:


> Can anyone please compare KZ ZSX and CCA C12 to the ZS7?
> 
> The ZS7 is my favorite KZ from the first time I heard it.
> 
> I’d love to know how it compares to the ZSX and C12. I don’t care about driver count, fit, accessories, etc. I’m talking from the standpoint of sound signature only.



Well Greg, never bought any of the CCA's as I've considered them the sheep's clothing versions of KZ and I also don't care for there look (Shallow Hal again)! For my old ears the ZSX gives just a little more of everything over my ZS7 and as you know I loved the ZS6 (Had all 4 colors) but honestly the changes on the ZS series were minimal for me with exception of the ZS5 v2 which for me was a step back from the v1. The ZS6 was the real upgrade to the ZS5 v1 and the ZS7 was just a little better around the edges than the ZS6 and along comes the ZSX Terminator and as mentioned it just offers a little more push than the ZS7's. I will say you guys finally got to me on the ZS10 Pro and I've ordered a pair but I'm thinking it may be somewhere in between the ZS7 and ZSX probably closer to the latter. I've been a KZ fan since the single DD's Rings and ED9's all the way thru these hybrids and in my honest opinion the ZSX is their finest effort and as you mention really good with all kinds of music. They really shine with good power and a high end DAP. I personally think everyone should own a pair but I guess it really just depends on what you prefer SS wise but for me they cover all the bases well and are my fave sub $50 iem. Got mine on right now listening to Bon Iver mix coming off my laptop thru the original Shanling up and they are just easy to listen too.

Here's a little ZS7th Heaven though, iPhone 4, Blue Bird U3 Mini and 7's with TRN 16 core, still like my 7's but for me the ZSX just edges them out


----------



## PhonoPhi

PureHardRock said:


> Zsx vs as16?


A good comparison to ask.

Both are the top of their line KZ models: ZSX of a hybrid line,  AS16 for all-BAs.

At the same time, different tuning philosophies/approaches: ZSX is tuned to cater to more common preferences, while the elevated upper mids and treble of AS16 is more of an acquired taste.

I do enjoy both. For not that treble-rich music, I use AS16; while for the recordings with more treble - ZSX, as well as CCA C16 for their rich mids.

A good milder leaner version  (and a predecessor) of AS16 is BA10 with its beautiful shell and a brick-like fit 

Yes, and ZSX, being smaller,  fit much easier than AS16, while no problems for me with fit for both.


----------



## 1clearhead

Slater said:


> Can anyone please compare KZ ZSX and CCA C12 to the ZS7?
> 
> The ZS7 is my favorite KZ from the first time I heard it.
> 
> I’d love to know how it compares to the ZSX and C12. I don’t care about driver count, fit, accessories, etc. I’m talking from the standpoint of sound signature only.


Slater, I hope this gives you an idea...

Brightest (upper MID's and highs):
1) C12
2) ZS7
3) ZSX

Smoothest (overall range):
1) ZSX
2) ZS7
3) C12

Deepest (sub-bass and lower rumble):
1) ZSX
2) ZS7
3) C12

Timbre (overall natural sounding):
1) ZSX
2) ZS7
3) C12

Technicality (most noticeable details, less smoothness)
1) C12
2) ZS7
3) ZSX

Comfort (according to my personal experience)
1) C12
2) ZS7
3) ZSX

-Clear


----------



## Slater

1clearhead said:


> Slater, I hope this gives you an idea...
> 
> Brightest (upper MID's and highs):
> 1) C12
> ...



Very helpful Clear! Thanks a ton.

It seems like the ZS7 is kind of a melding together of ZSX and C12. It’s the middle choice in every category you listed.

If sounds like I should just stick with the ZS7 since I’m so happy with it.


----------



## raccoon city

In that comparison, The ZSX appeals to me.
Eventually I may have to pick one up.


----------



## Podster

1clearhead said:


> Slater, I hope this gives you an idea...
> 
> Brightest (upper MID's and highs):
> 1) C12
> ...



Spot on Clear and I have no fit issues with my ZS7 or ZSX so I;m sure if I were interested in the C12 it would fit as well but I have 12 BA's in my YY HQ-12's not to mention I actually prefer my BA10  to my HQ-12's (Sorry Peter)  I just ordered ZS10 Pro's, the black and red BA10's and two backup ZSX's cause I hope to never go with a ZSX!


----------



## courierdriver

Jeez, you guys! None of you are making it any easier for a KZ upgrade path. Right now, I'm listening to Tool (Fear Innoculum album) on my ZS10 PRO and I'm having a hard time imagining anything better. It's the same thing every time I listen to this set, no matter what kinda music or genres I'm spinning. I think I may have to buy ZS7, ZSX and CCA C12 to add to my collection. Only concern is shell size and comfort. ZS7 scares me because of the shell size.


----------



## voicemaster

For me, I prefer the ZSX over C12. The C12 has this peak on the upper mid that while pushing the vocal a bit more forward, but it really bothering me after awhile. The ZSX was pretty sibilant when I first got it, but after burn in, it is no longer sibilance.


----------



## PureHardRock

I want to be a sub-150 iem. You guys prefer KZ ZSX or the ie 40 pro ?


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> Jeez, you guys! None of you are making it any easier for a KZ upgrade path. Right now, I'm listening to Tool (Fear Innoculum album) on my ZS10 PRO and I'm having a hard time imagining anything better. It's the same thing every time I listen to this set, no matter what kinda music or genres I'm spinning. I think I may have to buy ZS7, ZSX and CCA C12 to add to my collection. Only concern is shell size and comfort. ZS7 scares me because of the shell size.


ZS7 shell size is fine. ZSX is much larger. CCA C12 is the most comfortable of the three for me but of course YMMV. If it wasn't for comfort being a concern I would recommend the BA10 which is my favourite KZ.


----------



## gourab1995 (Apr 17, 2020)

PureHardRock said:


> I want to be a sub-150 iem. You guys prefer KZ ZSX or the ie 40 pro ?


Of all the things i've wanted to be. I've never thought of being an iem. 

Just kidding, i have the zs7 and can vouch for that with swapped cables and spinfits! (Dont have the others though)


----------



## Nimweth

gourab1995 said:


> Of all the things i've wanted to be. I've never thought of being an iem.
> 
> Just kidding, i have the zs7 and can vouch for that with swapped cables and spinfits!


.....or Spiral Dots!


----------



## Sebulr

I personally use missdoku (something like that) extra large tips because they are cheap, they sound good, and they fit my cavernous ear holes. I think they are 14.5mm wide. Also x large tips are hard to find. They fit on all my kz models. I think I've owned 6 kz earphones.


----------



## dh0licious

Sebilion said:


> For anyone like me who still needs a microphone in their cable, I just discovered these two cables, I don't know their quality yet but I ordered them and when I receive them I'll tell you if they are worth it.
> 2 pin 0.75mm to 3.5mm Earphone Replacement Earbuds Exchange Cable w/ 3 Remote Buttons Gold Plated Straight Plug for KZ ED12 ES3
> http://s.aliexpress.com/beYVVbEB?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
> 
> ...



Did you ever end of liking these cables? Would you recommend? Seems they are unavailable now


----------



## dh0licious (Apr 20, 2020)

Just received my KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ Silver Plated upgrade cable (bought both from the same seller).

I know these are <$50 and I shouldn't be too picky and that's fine, but I'm just noticing a couple of things that might suggest i've got a 'factory second' or a refurbished stock...

Here are my issues;

There is some pitting on the left earphone in the left earphone (circled in red), is this a QC issue?






I ordered the KZ Silver Upgrade Cable from the same seller, and the box for the cable came shrink wrapped in plastic however my ZS10 Pro box did not come in shrink wrapped plastic.. Seems strange that they would only shrink wrap some things. Does anyone remember if their ZS10Pro also came shrink wrapped or not? My fear is mine was previously opened. Picture of the Silver Upgrade Cable box with shrink wrap that was not present on the ZS10 Pro box:





There is no Left/Right marking on the IEM's themselves, only on the cable. Is that normal? Online reviews suggest there is some marking on the IEM's too


----------



## IEManiac

dh0licious said:


> Just received my KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ Silver Plated upgrade cable (bought both from the same seller).
> 
> I know these are <$50 and I shouldn't be too picky and that's fine, but I'm just noticing a couple of things that might suggest i've got a 'factory second' or a refurbished stock...
> 
> ...


QC issues with Chi-Fi? Surely you jest...


----------



## DynamicEars

Sebulr said:


> I personally use missdoku (something like that) extra large tips because they are cheap, they sound good, and they fit my cavernous ear holes. I think they are 14.5mm wide. Also x large tips are hard to find. They fit on all my kz models. I think I've owned 6 kz earphones.



you must be thinking of Misodiko, the mushroom like foam, similar to ikko i planet eartips. Yes i have them too, along with spiral dot, spiral dot++ and anything else.
Misodiko characteristic is quite sharp, so for edgy IEMs, i wouldnt too recommend them. Spiral dot++ on other side make edgy IEM become smooth, but this is bad to pair with already smooth IEMs, they become too smooth and "bouncy feeling" you will know what i mean after you listen. I like misodiko foam but for bass part, they kill the sub bass extension, too bad.


----------



## DynamicEars

dh0licious said:


> Just received my KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ Silver Plated upgrade cable (bought both from the same seller).
> 
> I know these are <$50 and I shouldn't be too picky and that's fine, but I'm just noticing a couple of things that might suggest i've got a 'factory second' or a refurbished stock...
> 
> ...



that is pretty normal in chifi QC, dont expect them like a very big brand. as long the sound is OK, well put anything aside, lower your nitpick standard buddy. as for shrink wrap plastic, unfortunately yes, the KZ IEMs should be come in wrapped plastic from factory.


----------



## dh0licious

DynamicEars said:


> that is pretty normal in chifi QC, dont expect them like a very big brand. as long the sound is OK, well put anything aside, lower your nitpick standard buddy. as for shrink wrap plastic, unfortunately yes, the KZ IEMs should be come in wrapped plastic from factory.



Great thanks. yes you're right, I shouldn't expect too much at this price point.

Regarding the shrink wrap and possibility of this being opened stock, should I contact the seller? Wish me luck with the language barrier...


----------



## DynamicEars

dh0licious said:


> Great thanks. yes you're right, I shouldn't expect too much at this price point.
> 
> Regarding the shrink wrap and possibility of this being opened stock, should I contact the seller? Wish me luck with the language barrier...



If the quality of the sound doesn't matter, just keep them because in my opinion, shipping cost back to china will cost you quite some money even they want to replace  with new sealed unit and free shipment from china. As long as there is no any major problem, just keep them


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

dh0licious said:


> There is no Left/Right marking on the IEM's themselves, only on the cable. Is that normal? Online reviews suggest there is some marking on the IEM's too



That's very common.

I mark the right side of the cable near the earpiece in red sharpie so I don't have to guess.


----------



## Slater

dh0licious said:


> Just received my KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ Silver Plated upgrade cable (bought both from the same seller).
> 
> 
> There is no Left/Right marking on the IEM's themselves, only on the cable. Is that normal? Online reviews suggest there is some marking on the IEM's too



How to tell L from R:

1. Hold up the IEM so that the ‘pointy’ part of the shell is facing down.
2. Now look at what direction the nozzle/eartip is pointing towards.
3. If the nozzle/eartip is pointing to the LEFT, then that’s the LEFT IEM shell.
4. If the nozzle/eartip is pointing to the RIGHT, then that’s the RIGHT IEM shell.


----------



## dh0licious

Slater said:


> How to tell L from R:
> 
> 1. Hold up the IEM so that the ‘pointy’ part of the shell is facing down.
> 2. Now look at what direction the nozzle/eartip is pointing towards.
> ...



Thanks. I figured it out from pictures online, but just wanted to check if the ZS10Pro should have the marking on the IEM or not (and if not, perhaps I received a factory second)


----------



## TheVortex

My ZS10 Pro don't have any markings on them apart from " KZ - ZS10 PRO stunning HIFI configuration "

Doesn't matter to me as I know which one goes into each ear.


----------



## ChristianM

*dh0licious *is there any difference in sound quality between stock brown cable and the silver upgrade cable? thanks


----------



## PhonoPhi

ChristianM said:


> *dh0licious *is there any difference in sound quality between stock brown cable and the silver upgrade cable? thanks


Scientifically, at 30 Ohm specified, cables should not matter that much for ZS10 pro.

Audiophilcally, I love it exactly with the KZ silver upgrade cable, which somehow faired a bit better to my ears than different 8- and 16-core cables.

I believe ZS10 pro were designed to be less demanding on the source and cables.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> How to tell L from R:
> 
> 1. Hold up the IEM so that the ‘pointy’ part of the shell is facing down.
> 2. Now look at what direction the nozzle/eartip is pointing towards.
> ...


Wow...thanks, Slater! That's a lot easier than trying to find the L and R markings on the clear QDC 2 pin connector housings. Kinda ticks me off though, that KZ doesn't mark their shells more predominantly/at all. My Moondrop KPE and the KXXS that I gifted to my son, are also not marked. I wonder if that is the same case with the ZSX or CCA C12. In any case, it would be great if all iem manufacturers would mark their products with proper, easy to differentiate markings or colors. Some cable companies seem to fall short in that area also.


----------



## PhonoPhi

courierdriver said:


> Wow...thanks, Slater! That's a lot easier than trying to find the L and R markings on the clear QDC 2 pin connector housings. Kinda ticks me off though, that KZ doesn't mark their shells more predominantly/at all. My Moondrop KPE and the KXXS that I gifted to my son, are also not marked. I wonder if that is the same case with the ZSX or CCA C12. In any case, it would be great if all iem manufacturers would mark their products with proper, easy to differentiate markings or colors. Some cable companies seem to fall short in that area also.


ZSX, AS12, AS16, A10 are all labelled.
C12 - not.
The best KZ/CCA labeling (as well as the shell design other than fit) - goes to BA10, just etched "L" and "R".


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Wow...thanks, Slater! That's a lot easier than trying to find the L and R markings on the clear QDC 2 pin connector housings. Kinda ticks me off though, that KZ doesn't mark their shells more predominantly/at all. My Moondrop KPE and the KXXS that I gifted to my son, are also not marked. I wonder if that is the same case with the ZSX or CCA C12. In any case, it would be great if all iem manufacturers would mark their products with proper, easy to differentiate markings or colors. Some cable companies seem to fall short in that area also.



Glad the tip helped!

True story for you - both the L *AND* R of my C10 say “Right” on them haha

I guess the guy at the KZ factory must have fallen asleep when he silkscreened the markings on the shells


----------



## IEManiac

ChristianM said:


> *dh0licious *is there any difference in sound quality between stock brown cable and the silver upgrade cable? thanks


Sound quality? No, I am an objectivist. Looks? Your eyes can be the judge.


----------



## dh0licious

ChristianM said:


> *dh0licious *is there any difference in sound quality between stock brown cable and the silver upgrade cable? thanks



To be honest I don't think I'm even going to use the Silver upgrade cable. I take a lot of calls on my phone and so need a mic, so will be sticking to the original cable with mic, unless anyone suggests any better 3.5mm, 2-pin/QDC style cables with microphone!


----------



## cpc93

dh0licious said:


> To be honest I don't think I'm even going to use the Silver upgrade cable. I take a lot of calls on my phone and so need a mic, so will be sticking to the original cable with mic, unless anyone suggests any better 3.5mm, 2-pin/QDC style cables with microphone!




To be honest I personally cannot tell the difference between the stock and silver upgrade cable. I think you're honestly fine sticking with it.


----------



## voicemaster

C12 with silver cable.


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## dh0licious

voicemaster said:


> C12 with silver cable.



Nice.

Thoughts on C12 vs Zs10 Pro?


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## voicemaster

dh0licious said:


> Nice.
> 
> Thoughts on C12 vs Zs10 Pro?


Both the C12 and ZSX are an upgrade from ZS10 Pro imho. Since I am still quarantining myself, I only have C12 with me right now so I can't do comparison. And it has been quite some time ago I listened to ZS10 Pro so I kind of forgot the sound.


----------



## dh0licious

voicemaster said:


> Both the C12 and ZSX are an upgrade from ZS10 Pro imho. Since I am still quarantining myself, I only have C12 with me right now so I can't do comparison. And it has been quite some time ago I listened to ZS10 Pro so I kind of forgot the sound.



Cool. Have to say the colour schemes on C12 make it the best looking Chifi IMO


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## IEManiac (Apr 21, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Both the C12 and ZSX are an upgrade from ZS10 Pro imho....


Yes, that's the common mantra but I haven't seen anythinga consensus or near consensus on that. Are the differences marginal and/or simply a matter of personal taste? Look at the FR graph, for one - nearly identical. Something to keep in mind (if one is attuned to trying to keep oneself honest) is the psychological bias. The C12 and ZSX are more expensive, have one more driver and came out later so one will be tempted to think they are superior but this is a perceptual bias.


----------



## Supremevegbeef

TC44 said:


> If you're getting a shock from your IEMs it's not due to the cable.  Does this happen when your iDSD Nano is being charged?  If so, your power supply may be passing AC.



TY for the reply.

I dunno though, because i had a shock while using KZ Silver cable from 2 different DACs with headphone outputs built-in (including the iDSD) and my Zishan DAP.

The Zishan is more chinese unregulated stuff, for sure, but so is the KZ, and I've never had a shock once with the stock cable or another copper 2 pin i have here.

Silver has very different conductivity than copper in the stock cable, you know. It definitely could be the cable. it is a complex network of 6  drivers in the ZSX and I doubt KZ did a serious analysis of the behavior and safety in different environments with every possible cable.

we've also had VERY dry days where I am, so static is more common naturally recently,


----------



## voicemaster

IEManiac said:


> Yes, that's the common mantra but I haven't seen anythinga consensus or near consensus on that. Are the differences marginal and/or simply a matter of personal taste? Look at the FR graph, for one - nearly identical.


Graphically, they are not much different. It just the newer C12 and ZSX use a different BA driver than ZS10 Pro. This change make the C12 and ZSX sounds more natural on the treble especially cymbals. They just sound less metallic than ZS10 Pro. And ZS10 Pro definitely has more bass quantity than both C12 and ZSX.


----------



## SoundChoice

dh0licious said:


> Nice.
> 
> Thoughts on C12 vs Zs10 Pro?



I have both. I'm happy with ZS10 Pro. It has great comfort for my particular ear, almost like it was custom made just for me. The sound is fun, enjoyable, and non-fatiguing. However, after hearing a lot about the upgrade to C12, I gave it a try. To me, the fit wasn't as good, and I couldn't hear a discernible difference. The yellow does look nice, but so does the crazy zigzag of the KZ. There are those who will say the timbre of the ZS10 Pros are "off" on certain instruments in certain frequency ranges. The word is "steely" - and it has been repeated so often and persistently that there is now a (imho unfair) kneejerk association between ZS10 Pro and this word. To my ears, I don't hear problems with timbre. Maybe it's the genre of music I listen to. Maybe I have the ears of a 90-year-old former boxer. I've given away a C12, but still have two ZS10 Pros. So, if you're happy with ZS10 Pro, if you have a great fit with it, in my humble opinion -- which is imperfect, fallible and something you should definitely not follow -- you're really not missing out on the C12.


----------



## dh0licious

SoundChoice said:


> I have both. I'm happy with ZS10 Pro. It has great comfort for my particular ear, almost like it was custom made just for me. The sound is fun, enjoyable, and non-fatiguing. However, after hearing a lot about the upgrade to C12, I gave it a try. To me, the fit wasn't as good, and I couldn't hear a discernible difference. The yellow does look nice, but so does the crazy zigzag of the KZ. There are those who will say the timbre of the ZS10 Pros are "off" on certain instruments in certain frequency ranges. The word is "steely" - and it has been repeated so often and persistently that there is now a (imho unfair) kneejerk association between ZS10 Pro and this word. To my ears, I don't hear problems with timbre. Maybe it's the genre of music I listen to. Maybe I have the ears of a 90-year-old former boxer. I've given away a C12, but still have two ZS10 Pros. So, if you're happy with ZS10 Pro, if you have a great fit with it, in my humble opinion -- which is imperfect, fallible and something you should definitely not follow -- you're really not missing out on the C12.



Looks like I'll be getting the C12 + a couple more Zs10 Pro's then!


----------



## Nimweth

SoundChoice said:


> I have both. I'm happy with ZS10 Pro. It has great comfort for my particular ear, almost like it was custom made just for me. The sound is fun, enjoyable, and non-fatiguing. However, after hearing a lot about the upgrade to C12, I gave it a try. To me, the fit wasn't as good, and I couldn't hear a discernible difference. The yellow does look nice, but so does the crazy zigzag of the KZ. There are those who will say the timbre of the ZS10 Pros are "off" on certain instruments in certain frequency ranges. The word is "steely" - and it has been repeated so often and persistently that there is now a (imho unfair) kneejerk association between ZS10 Pro and this word. To my ears, I don't hear problems with timbre. Maybe it's the genre of music I listen to. Maybe I have the ears of a 90-year-old former boxer. I've given away a C12, but still have two ZS10 Pros. So, if you're happy with ZS10 Pro, if you have a great fit with it, in my humble opinion -- which is imperfect, fallible and something you should definitely not follow -- you're really not missing out on the C12.


I agree. The ZS10 Pro and the ZS7 are both more fun than the C12 for me as well. I just enjoy my music on them more.


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## CYoung234 (Apr 21, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Both the C12 and ZSX are an upgrade from ZS10 Pro imho. Since I am still quarantining myself, I only have C12 with me right now so I can't do comparison. And it has been quite some time ago I listened to ZS10 Pro so I kind of forgot the sound.



I do not see much on the CCA C16 on these forums. Any comparisons between the C16 and ZSX? I own the , ZS10, ZS10PRO and C16 and use all 3. My actual preference right now is probably the Blon BL03, but I like the C16 a lot as well. I listen to a mix of classical, progressive rock, pop, indie, etc. A lot of stuff like M83 and Imagine Dragons lately.

Oh, my Urbanfun ISSO14's are apparently ready to be picked up, although we are under lockdown right now. So...


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## rayliam80 (Apr 21, 2020)

Regarding the CCA C12 and ZS10 Pro comparisons, I remember them sounding a lot more alike than not. Differences between the two were pretty slight IMHO. Right now, I'm also in community quarantine away from where my main collection is located and only have a few IEMs with me (C12, ZS7, BL03, Tin P1 and Etymotic ER3SE). I only have two different kinds of tips, small generic foams from Amazon (Riko? Ryko) and small Auvio tips with DIY 3M earplug foam inserts a la Symbio. The Auvio tips with foam inserts help to tame that mid treble glare with the C12 but do increase the mid-bass response a bit which I don't mind. With this setup, I prefer the C12 over the ZS7 for general listening. But if I'm in the mood for bass, then the ZS7 it is.


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## zachmal

Nimweth said:


> Here's what a good bass BA can do: BA10 with this track:




this one would go exceptionally nicely with Mass Effect 3 ending

ah - the memories 

just listened to it on the TRN ST1, gotta see how it sounds with the KZ AS10 - they are pretty spacious as well


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## zachmal

axhng said:


> 1 review up on youtube.




 KZ S2 TWS Review - They FIXED the BT!

*They FIXED the BT!*


looks like they are perfecting their TWS line


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## courierdriver

SoundChoice said:


> I have both. I'm happy with ZS10 Pro. It has great comfort for my particular ear, almost like it was custom made just for me. The sound is fun, enjoyable, and non-fatiguing. However, after hearing a lot about the upgrade to C12, I gave it a try. To me, the fit wasn't as good, and I couldn't hear a discernible difference. The yellow does look nice, but so does the crazy zigzag of the KZ. There are those who will say the timbre of the ZS10 Pros are "off" on certain instruments in certain frequency ranges. The word is "steely" - and it has been repeated so often and persistently that there is now a (imho unfair) kneejerk association between ZS10 Pro and this word. To my ears, I don't hear problems with timbre. Maybe it's the genre of music I listen to. Maybe I have the ears of a 90-year-old former boxer. I've given away a C12, but still have two ZS10 Pros. So, if you're happy with ZS10 Pro, if you have a great fit with it, in my humble opinion -- which is imperfect, fallible and something you should definitely not follow -- you're really not missing out on the C12.


Yes, +1! I don't hear the "steeliness" many others have mentioned either. These are my most often picked up set of all I currently own. Only the TFZ NO.3 is a close second, but only if I want a warmer, more brain rattling bass. For most of the music I listen to, the ZS10 PRO is my go to and what I instinctively reach for. Honestly, I gotta force myself to break out my other iems from time to time. I've got others that are maybe technically better, but when it just comes down to pure enjoyment of the music, the ZS10 PRO are my favorite. Also, QC seems pretty good. I've had mine for just a bit over a year now, and they still sound excellent. No driver or connector fails. I think that says alot. The ZS10 PRO gets my highest rec out of everything I currently own.


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## baskingshark

zachmal said:


> KZ S2 TWS Review - They FIXED the BT!
> 
> *They FIXED the BT!*
> 
> ...




Well after the KZ ZSX, bluetooth gear was all they were producing, and it seems the first few BT releases had issues, so glad they fixed it finally. Especially since it seems KZ are gonna put their eggs in the BT basket.3

I do wished they built on the success of the KZX though and release improved hybrids. Or even go back to producing DD sets.


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## voicemaster (Apr 21, 2020)

Now if they can manage to make KZ ZSX in TWS platform... One can only hope


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## baskingshark

voicemaster said:


> Now if they manage to make KZ ZSX in TWS platform... One can only hope



Yes that will be a good aim for KZ. But currently I find the TWS limiting factor is the BT tech or battery lifespan.

I think for now, it may be a better option to upgrade the BT dongle/adaptor and to keep the ZSX or whatever IEM u have to preserve the good sound that this IEM can give. IE get some bluetooth dongle/adaptor like TRN BT20/20S so even if the BT tech/battery goes, the BT component can be replaced.


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> Yes that will be a good aim for KZ. But currently I find the TWS limiting factor is the BT tech or battery lifespan.
> 
> I think for now, it may be a better option to upgrade the BT dongle/adaptor and to keep the ZSX or whatever IEM u have to preserve the good sound that this IEM can give. IE get some bluetooth dongle/adaptor like TRN BT20/20S so even if the BT tech/battery goes, the BT component can be replaced.


Well some tws have 10+ hours battery life on a single charge. 6-8 hours seems good enough and with addition of case charging, battery life is not an issue anymore imho. Now regarding BT, AptX and AAC codec are pretty good right now and if you mainly use TWS for portable use, those codec is good enough imho.


----------



## DynamicEars

I dont mind a 3-4 hours batt life with ZSX sound quality, that will beat every single TWS out there. I know one day we will have TWS tech that sounded like decent wired ones.


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## voicemaster (Apr 22, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> I dont mind a 3-4 hours batt life with ZSX sound quality, that will beat every single TWS out there. I know one day we will have TWS tech that sounded like decent wired ones.


I just got Nuarl N6 pro and I am impressed. Sound signature is pretty similar to C12. It is only a single DD so instrument separation maybe not as good as multi BA + DD combo. With battery life using AptX at around 8-10 hours in a single charge, tho it doesn't have any other bell and whistle like ANC and ambiance mode. $162 on Amazon USA.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> I just got Nuarl N6 pro and I am impressed. Sound signature is pretty similar to C12. It is only a single DD so instrument separation maybe not as good as multi BA + DD combo. With battery life using AptX at around 8-10 hours in a single charge, tho it doesn't have any other bell and whistle like ANC and ambiance mode. $162 on Amazon USA.



yeah, im looking for a complete package TWS that have great technicalities, so separation, soundstage and imaging on another level of current available TWS. I dont ask for mid-fi quality sonics, just decent budget like ZSX will be great in TWS form. Hopefully KZ will be there soon (the latest S2 seems jump backward to their infamous high mids peak)


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> yeah, im looking for a complete package TWS that have great technicalities, so separation, soundstage and imaging on another level of current available TWS. I dont ask for mid-fi quality sonics, just decent budget like ZSX will be great in TWS form. Hopefully KZ will be there soon (the latest S2 seems jump backward to their infamous high mids peak)



Haha once u hear the good stuff, we can't unhear them. So far I've not been satisfied with TWS gear cause of this. I know they are convenient, but I rather bring a wired connection around for the better sound.

But I think a good compromise is to use the nice IEMs with a BT dongle/adaptor like the TRN BT20/20S.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> yeah, im looking for a complete package TWS that have great technicalities, so separation, soundstage and imaging on another level of current available TWS. I dont ask for mid-fi quality sonics, just decent budget like ZSX will be great in TWS form. Hopefully KZ will be there soon (the latest S2 seems jump backward to their infamous high mids peak)


When I said it probably doesn't have instrument separation like multi BA iem, doesn't mean it suck at separation. It01 has single driver, but instrument separation is good. This Nuarl N6 pro has the best timbre out of my tws so far.


----------



## voicemaster

Siblings rivalry!!


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> Siblings rivalry!!


So, whatcha think? Love my ZS10 PRO. Alot. My most used iem at the moment. Don't hear the "steely highs" that many talk about. Which is the better upgrade path... CCA C12 or KZ Terminator? Iyho, of course.


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> So, whatcha think? Love my ZS10 PRO. Alot. My most used iem at the moment. Don't hear the "steely highs" that many talk about. Which is the better upgrade path... CCA C12 or KZ Terminator? Iyho, of course.


I will do more extensive listening since I got nothing to do lol.


----------



## baskingshark

courierdriver said:


> So, whatcha think? Love my ZS10 PRO. Alot. My most used iem at the moment. Don't hear the "steely highs" that many talk about. Which is the better upgrade path... CCA C12 or KZ Terminator? Iyho, of course.



I gave away my KZ ZS10 Pro a few months back, but if IIRC, it did a fair job of reproducing timbre for violins in the treble frequencies (not recorded violins but live up close violins which had a bit of harshness with steel strings). It won't beat most DD sets like BLON BL-03, KBEAR Diamond and Toneking Ninetails in timbre, but maybe head to head with other BA treble sets it does fairly well (say versus some of my older TRN models and even some westones). 

I think the ZS10 Pro doesn't fair as well in timbre for woodwinds and brass instruments. Sounded a bit artificial compared to DD sets, but this is just my subjective opinion. But then again, in general timbre of BA sets won't be as good as DD sets; I've auditioned some more expensive BA sets like QDC Anole VX and their timbre is still not as natural as pure DD sets, but of course multi BAs have their own strengths and weaknesses compared to DD; so ideally we should compare similar transducers rather than comparing apples and oranges. And of course our music genres we listen to is also important (or less important) for timbre of instruments.

So, timbre for woodwinds/brass instruments aside, this is really just nitpicking the ZS10 Pro. I still think the ZS10 Pro has superb price to performance ratio for the cheap price. I still recommend it to some of my friends, but perhaps nowadays it has been superceded by the ZSX for a few bucks more. For sure, just 2 - 3 years back, it wouldn't be possible to get this kind of sound quality at $35ish USD.


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## IEManiac (Apr 24, 2020)

courierdriver said:


> So, whatcha think? Love my ZS10 PRO. Alot. My most used iem at the moment. Don't hear the "steely highs" that many talk about. Which is the better upgrade path... CCA C12 or KZ Terminator? Iyho, of course.


The upgrade path takes one out of KZ territory.😉


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## Slater (Apr 24, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> For sure, just 2 - 3 years back, it wouldn't be possible to get this kind of sound quality at $35ish USD.



Ain't that the truth!

Every year I am blown away at what is currently available vs just a few years prior.

Look at the T800 - a solid resin shell with 8 Knowles drivers, Knowles tuning dampers, crossover, not 1 but 2 braided cables, competent tuning, great customer service, AND a Pelican style hard case? 5 years ago you'd be talking $2-$3k. But all that for under $300 is simply mind blowing.


----------



## baskingshark

Slater said:


> Ain't that the truth!
> 
> Every year I am blown away at what is currently available vs just a few years prior.
> 
> Look at the T800 - a solid resin shell with 8 Knowles drivers, Knowles tuning dampers, crossover, not 1 but 2 braided cables, AND a Pelican style hard case? 5 years ago you'd be talking $2-$3k.



Agreed. We gotta thank the CHIFI gods for giving us a small taste of audiophile heaven for reasonable prices. Great time to be in this hobby, with so many choices too to suit every preference. I don't remember buying any rubbish CHIFI in 2019 actually. A pity the coronavirus possibly set the CHIFI industry back a few months in terms of development and production, but they seem to be heading back to full steam.

I'm actually more worried for the western audio companies this year. Recession is probably gonna hit globally due to the coronavirus, though people might possibly still buy CHIFI due to their good price to performance ratio. But the western companies especially TOTL niche ones, may likely take a huge hit, unless they innovate or give more competitive pricing.


----------



## IEManiac

Slater said:


> Ain't that the truth!
> 
> Every year I am blown away at what is currently available vs just a few years prior.
> 
> Look at the T800 - a solid resin shell with 8 Knowles drivers, Knowles tuning dampers, crossover, not 1 but 2 braided cables, competent tuning, great customer service, AND a Pelican style hard case? 5 years ago you'd be talking $2-$3k. But all that for under $300 is simply mind blowing.


Hard not to conclude that Western brands were running a shake-down racket all this time, fleecing us when they could have offered much better value.


----------



## voicemaster

From my hearing, the ZSX and C12 are very similar in term of sound signature. The most noticeable different is the mid and treble. The bass is very similar imho. The mid is a little bit more forward on C12 which makes snare drum and vocal more pronounce (maybe like +0.5db more) than the ZSX. While the ZSX has a tad more treble which makes it sound more airy (by not much). Cymbals has more decay on the ZSX compare to C12 and ZS10pro. So, what about the ZS10pro? The ZS10pro is like a standard. It does almost everything right imho, but when comparing with the other two (ZSX and C12), you will notice a subtle yet noticeable differences between those three.

If we take ZS10pro as a base, the bass on both ZSX and C12 is a little bit tighter. You can hear more the "click" sound from the beater from kick drum.
The mid is the same actually from ZS10pro and ZSX tho classic guitar sounds better on the ZSX. The C12 has more forward mid than the other two.
The treble is different on all of them. I usually use cymbals as my test and the ZSX has the best cymbals sound from the three. It has better decay and it just makes the sound more spacious and airy. The C12 has better decay than the ZS10pro, but just a tad short from the ZSX.

All in all, they are a very good sounding IEM. If I have to pick one today, I would go with the ZSX as it suits my preference more than the other two tho I wouldn't mind if I only have the ZS10pro or the C12.


----------



## rayliam80

Are we going to see a wired set from KZ this year?


----------



## raccoon city

Yep, and it shall be called the KZ KoronaviruZ.


----------



## Nimweth

During this lockdown I have been digging out a few IEMs which haven't seen the light of day for a while. Today I have been listening to the CCA A10 (5BA). Very impressive sound, up there with my other all BA sets I have been enjoying, BA10 and TRN BA5. Quite a bright but very detailed sound. Anyone else out there like these? Not strictly KZ, I know, but the CCA thread is very quiet. Are they going to release any more models? C18 never materialised.


----------



## Podster

Sounds as good as they look  Or as the screen says "Bad Boys"


----------



## peskypesky

Just ordered the Blon BL03 from AliExpress and am looking forward to hearing them.

Currently using KZ ED9, Yinjw P8, Rock Zircon and KS ZS5.


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> Sounds as good as they look  Or as the screen says "Bad Boys"



I have the same DAP. I love the small size and low weight and use it more than my Fiio X1.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> Just ordered the Blon BL03 from AliExpress...
> 
> Currently using... Yinjw P8



That is going to be a *night and day* upgrade from the YINJW P8!


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 28, 2020)

Slater said:


> That is going to be a *night and day* upgrade from the YINJW P8!


A moonless night!

I've gone back to the BLON several times, only to put them away in favor of the TFZ T2 less than an hour later.


----------



## genck

IEManiac said:


> A moonless night!
> 
> I've gone back to the BLON several times, only to put them away in favor of the TFZ T2 less than an hour later.


I used to be the same way, they grow on you though, much like fungus.


----------



## peskypesky

Slater said:


> That is going to be a *night and day* upgrade from the YINJW P8!


They better be after all the rave reviews of the Blon!


----------



## IEManiac (Apr 28, 2020)

genck said:


> I used to be the same way, they grow on you though, much like fungus.


I see...every time I try them out again I say, yeah, these are not bad, quite ok actually. Then the mid-bass hammer comes waltzing in, followed by the lack of air and sparkle at the top. TFZ T2 still has the mid-bass waltz but it is balanced by


genck said:


> I used to be the same way, they grow on you though, much like fungus.


This is where my Oppoty lies. In a drawer, relegated to the pile of rejected gear on the sale block..


----------



## baskingshark (Apr 28, 2020)

peskypesky said:


> They better be after all the rave reviews of the Blon!



If your avatar is a picture of JS BACH, I think you will have a fieldday with the BLON BL-03. It really shines for classical music in view of the good tonality and timbre. I was listening to JS Bach's Air on the G string with the BLON BL-03 a few days back, sublime stuff for the string movements! I'd say the BL-03 does replicate acoustic instruments very well for the price, in fact most budget sub $100 CHIFI excel at technicalities, but it is quite rare to find sets that excel at timbre, like the BL-03. Having said that, the BL-03 doesn't do as well in technical aspects compared to similarly priced multi BA/hybrid sets. And fit is a pain due to the short nozzles, so best u do a spacer mod or get longer nozzles eg spinfits. As fit will make or break an IEM, it takes a wee bit of work to get the BLON BL-03 sounding good.

Also BL-03 has a midbass hump so not the best option for purists for classical music, but the midbass can be EQed down or tamed with a brighter source or wider bore eartips.

Well anyway, this isn't the BLON thread, so we can discuss this further at the dedicated BLON headfi thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blon-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.916702/


----------



## Slater

IEManiac said:


> A moonless night!
> 
> I've gone back to the BLON several times, only to put them away in favor of the TFZ T2 less than an hour later.



You wouldn’t be saying that if you’ve  ever heard the YINJW P8


----------



## Podster

peskypesky said:


> I have the same DAP. I love the small size and low weight and use it more than my Fiio X1.



Yeah the S5 is far better sounding than it has a right to be, I've given many as gifts and have the Red, Gray and this silver one. Like your current iem's all represent awesome bang for the buck performance


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


>



What IEM is that?


----------



## raccoon city

Interesting.
It looks like it has a carbon fiber shell.


----------



## Dcell7 (Apr 28, 2020)

Slater said:


> What IEM is that?


Looks like a Trinity IEM. Trinity Phantom Master ?


----------



## Slater (Apr 28, 2020)

Dcell7 said:


> Looks like a Trinity IEM. Trinity Phantom Master ?



Looks like you’re right.

That is dang nice looking! And quite a complete package with changeable face plates, 12 nozzle filters, and large selection of tips.

I must have been asleep like Rip Van Winkle to have missed that!

Unfortunately a fixed cable though (and fabric covered to boot), which is a big downside because once the cable goes bad you’re screwed.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Looks like you’re right.
> 
> That is dang nice looking! And quite a complete package with changeable face plates, 12 nozzle filters, and large selection of tips.
> 
> ...



True my good friend and why I only use them in the finest of settings and conditions, you would never catch me mowing the lawn in these jewels! The other big draw back is their physical weight as they may be one of the heaviest iem's I've ever owned but setup right (Filter of preference and tips of choice) the Masters are magical


----------



## Dcell7

Slater said:


> Looks like you’re right.
> 
> That is dang nice looking! And quite a complete package with changeable face plates, 12 nozzle filters, and large selection of tips.
> 
> ...



You should dig up the two big Trinity threads to enjoy some stories about some “shenanigans“ they have pulled. I am going offtopic though ....


----------



## Podster

Dcell7 said:


> You should dig up the two big Trinity threads to enjoy some stories about some “shenanigans“ they have pulled. I am going offtopic though ....





Then jump over to the IMR threads to see how one recovers in today's world Bet he's long time friends of the Trumpster Now I'll digress since I have ridden both trains I guess once a fool always a fool 





Not to mention:











Now to get back on track with some honest Chinese offerings of the KZ persuasion


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> Yeah the S5 is far better sounding than it has a right to be, I've given many as gifts and have the Red, Gray and this silver one. Like your current iem's all represent awesome bang for the buck performance



wow! That red one looks great.


----------



## peskypesky

Slater said:


> Unfortunately a fixed cable though (and fabric covered to boot), which is a big downside because once the cable goes bad you’re screwed.



ah, but these days, by the time the cable goes bad, a whole slew of superior IEM's will have been released.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Then jump over to the IMR threads to see how one recovers in today's world Bet he's long time friends of the Trumpster Now I'll digress since I have ridden both trains I guess once a fool always a fool
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your awesome collection never ceases to amaze me Pod


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Your awesome collection never ceases to amaze me Pod



THX "G", I still have to wonder sometimes if I'm more in the enthusiast camp our leaning to fool  Guess the most redeeming for me is that I've given away as much as I kept in the attempt to show friends a little better sound and to possibly provide them better musical enjoyment


----------



## DynamicEars

Alright! I'm a bit hyped right now with the news.. KZ hype train is cominggg again choo chooooo...!!

KZ will release the KZ Z1 very soon, I'm exciting after saw the FR graph ( i know dont trust manufacturer FR, but this time graph looks very good, its similar to ZSX, and based on their ZSX success, I have a good feeling about this)
I'm pretty much settle with my trident sony IER M7, ISN H40 and Tri i3, but this news kinda made me wanna jump in to the hype train again (again? yeah)

its a TWS but unlike the current TWS which are utulize 6mm DDs, KZ using big 10mm DD with "new technology" they called it "XUN"
the major cons currently is batt life which is only 2 hours for single charge, but you can charge back in the case.

here the look, very pretty, just like ISN H40 :



their "new tech - XUN 10mm driver" to achieve deep sub bass in TWS form @baskingshark calling you for your first TWS :


the original KZ graph which is looked very bad (the yellow one is the KZ Z1, and red one is "other TWS - light sub bass" :

But please be noted that scale is very bad, making the FR looks yikes


so I stretch the FR to match the ZSX graph and this is the result :

pretty much similar to the ZSX! that's make my urge to ride the hype train.. but we'll see.. shipping is bad on current situation and I need to save money for other priorities.


----------



## dh0licious (Apr 29, 2020)

I've just got my ES100 for my ZS10 Pro and want to clip the ES100 to my shirt while in the gym.

Can anyone recommend a short 3.5mm or 2.5mm balanced cable that fits the type C pins that the ZS10 Pro use?


----------



## Podster

dh0licious said:


> I've just got my ES100 for my ZS10 Pro and want to clip the ES100 to my shirt while in the gym.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a short 3.5mm or 2.5mm balanced cable that fits the type C pins that the ZS10 Pro use?



Sounds like a custom cable, not sure I've seen any but there are a few around these parts who could possibly tweak an existing cable.


----------



## SoundChoice

DynamicEars said:


> Alright! I'm a bit hyped right now with the news.. KZ hype train is cominggg again choo chooooo...!!
> 
> KZ will release the KZ Z1 very soon, I'm exciting after saw the FR graph ( i know dont trust manufacturer FR, but this time graph looks very good, its similar to ZSX, and based on their ZSX success, I have a good feeling about this)
> I'm pretty much settle with my trident sony IER M7, ISN H40 and Tri i3, but this news kinda made me wanna jump in to the hype train again (again? yeah)
> ...



“frequency curve of a product” - of course they don’t tell you the product to which they’re comparing is an empty can of Campbell’s soup


----------



## baskingshark

SoundChoice said:


> “frequency curve of a product” - of course they don’t tell you the product to which they’re comparing is an empty can of Campbell’s soup







Like this?

This will be the next hypetrain! Biggest soundstage, silver chrome shells, jaw rattling echoey bass and "metallic" timbre.


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> Alright! I'm a bit hyped right now with the news.. KZ hype train is cominggg again choo chooooo...!!
> 
> KZ will release the KZ Z1 very soon, I'm exciting after saw the FR graph ( i know dont trust manufacturer FR, but this time graph looks very good, its similar to ZSX, and based on their ZSX success, I have a good feeling about this)
> I'm pretty much settle with my trident sony IER M7, ISN H40 and Tri i3, but this news kinda made me wanna jump in to the hype train again (again? yeah)
> ...



I wish KZ would make a dual purpose TWS, like the BGVP Q2.

The Q2 works as a TWS IEM, as well as a wired IEM!



It wouldn’t be that difficult. The wired jack simply bypasses all of the electronics, and attaches directly to the drivers.


----------



## DynamicEars

SoundChoice said:


> “frequency curve of a product” - of course they don’t tell you the product to which they’re comparing is an empty can of Campbell’s soup



Yeah right, but roughly most of TWS currently (especially chifi TWS) dont have sub bass quantity like that and mostly focused on high mids. Of course take with grain of salt buddy, but their marketing FR is similar to their ZSX marketing FR, and turned out the ZSX have great tuning so I have hope on this one, not like their previous TWS.



Slater said:


> I wish KZ would make a dual purpose TWS, like the BGVP Q2.
> 
> The Q2 works as a TWS IEM, as well as a wired IEM!
> 
> ...



Yeah i know about Q2 and I agree @Slater they should take this move too. Its very convenient when you can use them as wired if they run out of juice since this Z1 battery cant hold long run.


----------



## Slater (Apr 29, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Yeah i know about Q2 and I agree @Slater they should take this move too. Its very convenient when you can use them as wired if they run out of juice since this Z1 battery cant hold long run.



Yes, wired mode when battery life is run down, and also for absolute best sound performance.

C’mon KZ, we know you can do it!


----------



## nacho0asd

Hey guys, hope you're all doing good. 
I've been looking for an upgraded cable with inline mic for my KZ ZSN Pro (KZ C-pin/QDC). When I bought them I didn't think about how much I'd miss having an inline mic, and the standard cable tangles quite a lot. I'm looking for alternatives to the KZ upgraded cable with an inline mic, and I saw KB Ear has a similar cable with good reviews. I'll leave you links for both cables below, and if anyone knows about a better option with QDC/KZ C-pin and inline mic, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

KZ upgraded cable w/mic:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000029614965.html

KBear cable w/mic:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000141337661.html


----------



## pbui44

Podster said:


> Then jump over to the IMR threads to see how one recovers in today's world Bet he's long time friends of the Trumpster Now I'll digress since I have ridden both trains I guess once a fool always a fool
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man...that is a really awesome stash of toilet paper. XD


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> Alright! I'm a bit hyped right now with the news.. KZ hype train is cominggg again choo chooooo...!!
> 
> KZ will release the KZ Z1 very soon, I'm exciting after saw the FR graph ( i know dont trust manufacturer FR, but this time graph looks very good, its similar to ZSX, and based on their ZSX success, I have a good feeling about this)
> I'm pretty much settle with my trident sony IER M7, ISN H40 and Tri i3, but this news kinda made me wanna jump in to the hype train again (again? yeah)
> ...



the graph they compared to looks a little like the KZ S1. 






the 2 hour battery is kinda worrying though, seems like the new driver is taking up more space so the battery inside is smaller than the one in the S1 (from 40mAh to 30mAh). :/ hopefully it's just that they're testing battery life at a much louder volume and at normal listening volume it might be better.


----------



## voicemaster

Knowing KZ, they have the resources to do this kind of things aka releasing stuffs just for experiment lol.


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> the graph they compared to looks a little like the KZ S1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Battery life and graph are one thing, but I'm more worried about the connectivity issues that plagued earlier KZ wireless gear. Heard their newer wireless stuff seems to be good for connectivity, but will wait for reviews first for this set!


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> Battery life and graph are one thing, but I'm more worried about the connectivity issues that plagued earlier KZ wireless gear. Heard their newer wireless stuff seems to be good for connectivity, but will wait for reviews first for this set!



For me i've been pretty lucky I guess. I've had decent connectivity on their T1, S1, and S2. Didn't try the E10 since i didn't like that style of TWS, but that seems to be the one with the most issue. Will update once I get the Z1.


----------



## DynamicEars

Yes the S1 graph looked pretty bad with that scary high mids peak and sub bass roll off.

S1 S2 is like testing unit maybe, hopefully they nail thr TWS sector with Z1 this time, but i have good feeling about this aside from lack of aptx and battery life


----------



## ChristianM

I was about to order KZ ZSX but found TRN BA5 on Aliexpress and read/watched reviews on head-fi and youtube and they praise the sound quality of TRN BA5. Anyone have both ZSX & BA5 and compare the sound quality?
I have ZSN Pro, it's good but treble is a little bit harsh. I also HAD ZS10 Pro but sell it for some reason. I really liked the sound of ZS10 Pro.
I mostly listen metal, like, death, gothic, industrial, nu-metal etc. also rock and a little bit of pop and hip-hop.
thanks


----------



## DynamicEars

ChristianM said:


> I was about to order KZ ZSX but found TRN BA5 on Aliexpress and read/watched reviews on head-fi and youtube and they praise the sound quality of TRN BA5. Anyone have both ZSX & BA5 and compare the sound quality?
> I have ZSN Pro, it's good but treble is a little bit harsh. I also HAD ZS10 Pro but sell it for some reason. I really liked the sound of ZS10 Pro.
> I mostly listen metal, like, death, gothic, industrial, nu-metal etc. also rock and a little bit of pop and hip-hop.
> thanks



Having both, the ZsX is like perfection of the Zs10 Pro, better timbre, better technicalities with new developed DWEK BAs. They sounded more natural unlike zs10 pro metallic sound. 

The BA5 is fast, have great mids and highs, but more energetic on treble area. And sub bass in BA5 is more shy, they have great extension and speed but quantity as not as big as zsx and more mid bass focus.

I think zsx suits you more since you are sensitive to trebles and you like zs10 pro signature.
QC wise, kz a bit better than TRN. But remember also to put into consideration that ZSX have protrude and big shell although i dont have fit problem with zsx


----------



## ChristianM

Thank you DynamicEars for reply, really helpful. I believe I should go for ZSX as I have satisfying experience with KZs, I never tried TRN and have money to buy only one pair. thanks


----------



## peskypesky (Apr 30, 2020)

Anybody else still rocking the KZ ED9's?  I've bought a lot of IEM's since I first got these ED9's, but I still keep coming back to them.

Right now I'm listening to an albumby guitarists Eric Johnson and Mike Stern and just loving the sounds. Muscular bass on the bottom, good mid-tones and clear highs. No harshness. And I love the metal construction.






And yeah, I'm a bass-head, so these do a good job for my tastes.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> Anybody else still rocking the KZ ED9's?  I've bought a lot of IEM's since I first got these ED9's, but I still keep coming back to them.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to an albumby guitarists Eric Johnson and Mike Stern and just loving the sounds. Muscular bass on the bottom, good mid-tones and clear highs. No harshness. And I love the metal construction.
> 
> ...



Do you have the newest version with the new reddish cable?


----------



## peskypesky

Slater said:


> Do you have the newest version with the new reddish cable?


No, mine are three years old. And they still work great. I've had many sets of IEM's and headphones break in that time period. The ED9's I have are robust. Good strain relief. L-shaped plug. Built to last.


----------



## PhonoPhi

peskypesky said:


> Anybody else still rocking the KZ ED9's?  I've bought a lot of IEM's since I first got these ED9's, but I still keep coming back to them.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to an albumby guitarists Eric Johnson and Mike Stern and just loving the sounds. Muscular bass on the bottom, good mid-tones and clear highs. No harshness. And I love the metal construction.
> 
> ...


Each time Final E series is discussed, I am chuckling: ED9 with its sturdy cable and two filters do more for me than E3000 at less than 1/3 of the cost


----------



## peskypesky

PhonoPhi said:


> Each time Final E series is discussed, I am chuckling: ED9 with its sturdy cable and two filters do more for me than E3000 at less than 1/3 of the cost


oh wow! I'd never seen those before. They sure do look like ED9's.


----------



## axhng

Just got these. haven't listened to them yet. Case is smaller than I thought it would be. default eartips is the same as S2, but comes with 3 extra pair is a different shape too. MICRO-USB CHARGING for some odd reason (S1 and S2 both used USB-C). earbuds are more sculpted and curvy.


----------



## axhng (May 1, 2020)

Quick 1 hour impression on the Z1. Holy sh!t. It's been a while since I've used the ZSX and I've given them away so can't compare then side by side, but this does remind me a bit of that, in the sense that nothing seems to be lacking in the FR. Bass, mids, treble are all presented well without any part sounding too excessive or recessed (unless you really don't like bass that is).

In a track like Caravan from whiplash movie's soundtrack, the intro portion with the drums the presentation of the bass drum doesn't over shadow the cymbal and hi hat. When the double bass and brass instruments kicks in, it's the same thing, everything still sounds coherent to me.

Mids sounds good too. While i thought the S2 sounded a tiny bit recessed and a bit thin, the Z1 sounds present and full. Like in REOL's Gekihaku, the intro portion with her vocals is high and a bit sharp and there is a darker electronic tone in the background. The Z1 does a great job present at presenting both of them, with the electronic tones sounding full, her vocals full sounding with a tiny bit of airiness to them that really brings life to her voice without sounding shrill. Then when the beat drops, I can feel the sub-bass rumble, but it doesn't overpower other aspects of the track. Same applies to LiSA's Gurenge too. For male vocals, King Gnu's Hakujitsu, the intro vocals is the more breathy type, and can sound a little thin on the S2, but it sounds full enough on the Z1.

Treble is also quite well done for my taste. Doesn't sound peaky, but still well extended enough for instruments like cymbals, hi hat, string instruments to shine. I think it has a bit more treble than the S2? Probably have to compare more to be sure. But most importantly to me, it doesn't sound sibilant to me at all unlike the S2.

I've listened to a bunch of songs ranging from different genres and languages and they all sound good to me. It's fun sounding without going overboard, and i'm really liking it so far. I've been listening to them since my previous post an hour or so ago, and it doesn't sound fatiguing to me at all. Treble doesn't sound metallic to me too.

Also my suspicion that these will be extremely loud were true. 50% volume on my iPhone 11 (which is already slightly higher than my usual listening volume at home) is like 65% on KZ S2 and 85% on the Haylou GT1 Plus. These are the loudest TWS i've listened to thus far. So far i'm really liking it. Now just to test whether the battery life is really that bad. lol.


----------



## tgx78

axhng said:


> Quick 1 hour impression on the Z1. Holy sh!t. It's been a while since I've used the ZSX and I've given them away so can't compare then side by side, but this does remind me a bit of that, in the sense that nothing seems to be lacking in the FR. Bass, mids, treble are all presented well without any part sounding too excessive or recessed (unless you really don't like bass that is).
> 
> In a track like Caravan from whiplash movie's soundtrack, the intro portion with the drums the presentation of the bass drum doesn't over shadow the cymbal and hi hat. When the double bass and brass instruments kicks in, it's the same thing, everything still sounds coherent to me.
> 
> ...



How does it compare to the Haylou GT1 Plus in terms of SQ?


----------



## axhng

tgx78 said:


> How does it compare to the Haylou GT1 Plus in terms of SQ?



Hmm. so far i feel like it's like a more fun sounding version of the GT1 Plus? There is noticeably more sub-bass, and treble seems a tiny bit more extended (or maybe similar). Both sounds good in the mids, but because the Gt1 Plus has less sub-bass the mids sounds a bit more forward in some tracks? But if i'm listening to like a track without bass like this guitar track "Depapepe - Ii-hi Dattane", it sounds about the same. Maybe the Z1 has slightly better separation too? But it's like really slight. Both are smooth and enjoyable to listen to though. But Z1 probably gets my vote because it's able to get a lot louder. I have like a few songs i listen to that are softer and sometimes when I'm jogging the Gt1 Plus is still a little lacking in volume even when i max it out. Having a bit more headroom is nice.


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> Hmm. so far i feel like it's like a more fun sounding version of the GT1 Plus? There is noticeably more sub-bass, and treble seems a tiny bit more extended (or maybe similar). Both sounds good in the mids, but because the Gt1 Plus has less sub-bass the mids sounds a bit more forward in some tracks? But if i'm listening to like a track without bass like this guitar track "Depapepe - Ii-hi Dattane", it sounds about the same. Maybe the Z1 has slightly better separation too? But it's like really slight. Both are smooth and enjoyable to listen to though. But Z1 probably gets my vote because it's able to get a lot louder. I have like a few songs i listen to that are softer and sometimes when I'm jogging the Gt1 Plus is still a little lacking in volume even when i max it out. Having a bit more headroom is nice.



seems like my instinct were right, they have ZSX signature sound? of course with less separation and technicalities. How is the soundstage and imaging? 
and that very fast, i thought they are still in pre order session? now Im interested.. ugh


----------



## Coniboy

HI,

I recently buy a pair of KZ ZSN.

I feel the sound detailed but too agressive, too bright,too metallic, too harsh for me, the sound is fatiguing my ears.

I am searching for hybrid earphones with a more warm, depth, body and more spacial sound.

Any recommandations in the same range of price?

(Sorry for my english).


----------



## forestitalia

Coniboy said:


> HI,
> 
> I recently buy a pair of KZ ZSN.
> 
> ...


I don't think there is nothing better of ZSN for the price, I use them daily even if have much more expensive buds.
How you drive the ZSN?


----------



## Slater

Coniboy said:


> HI,
> 
> I recently buy a pair of KZ ZSN.
> 
> ...



You should consider the ZST foam mod. It will tune the treble and make it more enjoyable for you.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1167#post-13480650


----------



## PhonoPhi

Coniboy said:


> HI,
> 
> I recently buy a pair of KZ ZSN.
> 
> ...


CCA C10 (warm but detailed with 4 BAs) would fit the requirements and, hopefully, the bill.


----------



## biggbenn74

@axhng should I be considering the Z1 for a basshead experience or for more of an all-rounded experience?

I'm also very interested to know how long the battery truly lasts. Saw them today, thinking about picking up a set over the weekend if there's enough info to back it up.


----------



## Coniboy

Thanks for your reply.

@forestitalia  : i'm using Benji K1 and Sony nwz a-815, and sometimes my phone Xiaomi Mi A1.

@Slater : thanks for the tuto, but i would not try this for the moment ahah

@PhonoPhi : i find the CCA C10 too in my research, but it is not the same manufacturer as KZ ? The sound will not be too similar?


----------



## Podster

PhonoPhi said:


> Each time Final E series is discussed, I am chuckling: ED9 with its sturdy cable and two filters do more for me than E3000 at less than 1/3 of the cost



Right, it's hard to keep a good iem down  Some of the best $8.60 I've ever spent in the portable hobby I refer to them as humbly awesome






While we are travelling back in time any one have or remember these little babies?


----------



## genck

Podster said:


>


KZ DT5


Spoiler



the image says KZ DT5


----------



## Cevisi

So they released in between of the waiting time for the s2 the z1 out of nothing

Why just why


----------



## PhonoPhi

Coniboy said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> @forestitalia  : i'm using Benji K1 and Sony nwz a-815, and sometimes my phone Xiaomi Mi A1.
> 
> ...


CCA is a sister brand of KZ.
Some IEMs are very close, like C12 and ZSX, while C10 is unique to CCA being made in between ZS10 and ZS10 pro (most closely related).


----------



## axhng

biggbenn74 said:


> @axhng should I be considering the Z1 for a basshead experience or for more of an all-rounded experience?
> 
> I'm also very interested to know how long the battery truly lasts. Saw them today, thinking about picking up a set over the weekend if there's enough info to back it up.



It think it's more of an all rounded experience? While the sub-bass thump I think will satisfy bass heads, the midbass is quite well controlled sounding to me and doesn't sound too bloated. I don't consider myself a basshead, but still enjoyed it a lot. Battery life doesn't look pretty. At the volume i'm using, it's legit 2 hours of use per charge. still testing how many extra charges the case will provide, but it's probably around 4 to 5.


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> It think it's more of an all rounded experience? While the sub-bass thump I think will satisfy bass heads, the midbass is quite well controlled sounding to me and doesn't sound too bloated. I don't consider myself a basshead, but still enjoyed it a lot. Battery life doesn't look pretty. At the volume i'm using, it's legit 2 hours of use per charge. still testing how many extra charges the case will provide, but it's probably around 4 to 5.



Any BT connectivity issues with the Z1 so far? Like how far is the BT range?


----------



## axhng

baskingshark said:


> Any BT connectivity issues with the Z1 so far? Like how far is the BT range?



So far seems about the same as the S2 and no major issues. I've took it out for a 30 mins jog, no drop outs at all. Other than that it's mostly home use and it performs normally. my apartment isn't particular big but i tried like 8-10m with just 1 thin wall in between and it was still fine.

Though i can easily get it to stutter badly if i cup my hands around both ears while using it, with the left side cutting out completely and the right stuttering. In this instance haylou gt1 plus does a little better and only the left side cuts out while the right side can still continue playback. this isn't really typical usage of course haha.


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> So far seems about the same as the S2 and no major issues. I've took it out for a 30 mins jog, no drop outs at all. Other than that it's mostly home use and it performs normally. my apartment isn't particular big but i tried like 8-10m with just 1 thin wall in between and it was still fine.
> 
> Though i can easily get it to stutter badly if i cup my hands around both ears while using it, with the left side cutting out completely and the right stuttering. In this instance haylou gt1 plus does a little better and only the left side cuts out while the right side can still continue playback. this isn't really typical usage of course haha.



Thanks for answering my quentions on TWS thread, 1 more question so do you think they are overall better than ZS10 Pro / ZSN Pro and comparable to ZSX in terms of SQ. How is it compared to BL03 (if you have)? or any other good wired single DD IEM?

if they have more batt life, i will go crazy itchy to buy, should we wait for for Z1 successor?


----------



## Slater (May 2, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> if they have more batt life, i will go crazy itchy to buy, should we wait for for Z1 successor?



That’s always the million dollar question. Buy what’s available now, or wait for the next thing?

And then let’s say you wait for the next thing to come out...well, you could pose the exact same million dollar question again. Will the next NEXT thing be better?

When you’ve gone over something again and again and again, like I have, certain questions get answered. Others spring up. Your mind plays tricks on you. You play tricks back.  It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater, that someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting...


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> That’s always the million dollar question. Buy what’s available now, or wait for the next thing?
> 
> And then let’s say you wait for the next thing to come out...well, you could pose the exact same million dollar question again. Will the next NEXT thing be better?
> 
> Certain questions get answered. Others spring up. Your mind plays tricks on you. You play tricks back.  It's like you're trying to unravel a giant cable-knit sweater and someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting...




Yeah I know, as an accidentally KZ collector by the time, I have that stupid experience too, but i mean cmon only 2 hours batt life? and lack of aptx.. if only they can hold for 3 hours, its acceptable. But in reality i never use my TWS for more than 2 hours straight. decision decision.. and we need to save money for this difficult moment


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## axhng (May 2, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for answering my quentions on TWS thread, 1 more question so do you think they are overall better than ZS10 Pro / ZSN Pro and comparable to ZSX in terms of SQ. How is it compared to BL03 (if you have)? or any other good wired single DD IEM?
> 
> if they have more batt life, i will go crazy itchy to buy, should we wait for for Z1 successor?



No prob! technicalities wise, probably not, but it's good enough that I still really enjoy using them. I like the tonality on the Z1 more than the ZSX mostly because of the treble. I have the BL03 (un-modded with newbee silicon tips + spacer) as well and in terms of bass quantity it's comparable to me. Z1 is more towards sub-bass, BL03 seems to be more towards mid-bass a little (and seems to bleed into the lower mids a bit). Mids seems about the same in terms of presence in the mix but BL03 is on the warmer side and can sound a little duller, especially for female vocals. Z1 has a bit more treble it seems which makes female vocals sounds more enjoyable to me. Putting aside resolution which BL03 still wins, the Z1's tuning is a little more towards my liking.

Have the MH755 around too, but i re-cabled it so the sound might not be the same anymore. Z1 has a bit more sub-bass, mids sounds a tiny bit fuller especially in lower mids, and it's a little less intense in the upper mids. Treble quantity seems about the same to me. All of those are enjoyable to me though.







I think the battery life is probably the biggest thing that will give pause to ppl. haha. To me, if i absolutely need a pair of TWS now, then I would buy it, since I do enjoy the sound more than the GT1 Plus. I can live with the battery life for now, and even if the battery life becomes unusable in about 6 months of regular use, it's like 0.25 USD per day of depreciation. haha. But if you don't need one now, waiting is always a more prudent option.

On one hand i think that if the sales is good for this model, KZ will think that people like the sound and keep the driver and tuning for future products. but who am i kidding, they're going keep churning out stuff no matter what, and knowing them they're bound to release more TWS with this driver anyway.


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> No prob! technicalities wise, probably not, but it's good enough that I still really enjoy using them. I like the tonality on the Z1 more than the ZSX mostly because of the treble. I have the BL03 (un-modded with newbee silicon tips + spacer) as well and in terms of bass quantity it's comparable to me. Z1 is more towards sub-bass, BL03 seems to be more towards mid-bass a little (and seems to bleed into the lower mids a bit). Mids seems about the same in terms of presence in the mix but BL03 is on the warmer side and can sound a little duller, especially for female vocals. Z1 has a bit more treble it seems which makes female vocals sounds more enjoyable to me. Putting aside resolution which BL03 still wins, the Z1's tuning is a little more towards my liking.
> 
> Have the MH755 around too, but i re-cabled it so the sound might not be the same anymore. Z1 has a bit more sub-bass, mids sounds a tiny bit fuller especially in lower mids, and it's a little less intense in the upper mids. Treble quantity seems about the same to me. All of those are enjoyable to me though.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the comparison. I do have mmcx modded original MH755 and paired them with silver cable. So i take this Z1 to be on between mh755 and BL03 class in terms of resolution and technicalities. Tuning wise they can be better as less mid bass bleed and more sub bass focus with fuller mids. I have faith that this Z1 is great in sound but again thanks for your wise advise to my hot blooded urge that cant think wisely, that I dont urgently need another TWS since i got GT1 plus at the moment, and staying at home because of current situation means wired stuff should be OK. Well let see the battle between my patience to wait for the successor VS incoming poison that blur my clear mind. Thanks a lot buddy


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> Thanks for the comparison. I do have mmcx modded original MH755 and paired them with silver cable. So i take this Z1 to be on between mh755 and BL03 class in terms of resolution and technicalities. Tuning wise they can be better as less mid bass bleed and more sub bass focus with fuller mids. I have faith that this Z1 is great in sound but again thanks for your wise advise to my hot blooded urge that cant think wisely, that I dont urgently need another TWS since i got GT1 plus at the moment, and staying at home because of current situation means wired stuff should be OK. Well let see the battle between my patience to wait for the successor VS incoming poison that blur my clear mind. Thanks a lot buddy



No problem! Hopefully i haven't messed up any of the comparisons and descriptions. It's still so new that it's probably better to wait till more people get their hands on it to see if they will confirm my impressions or not.   i'm not too confident in my hearing just yet.

GT1 Plus is still great sounding to me, and one of the rare more neutral sounding TWS around. Gotta thank your recommendations for that too. It's still one of my favourite all rounders. I'm still kinda hoping KZ will release IEMs again (maybe a budget option with the Z1's driver and tuning would be nice), looking the direction they have been taking their tuning from ZS10 Pro, ZSX, to their TWS stuff, I feel like they're heading towards a direction that I personally like.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Did anyone else see these CVJ IEMs on AE? Judging by the looks they seem like yet another KZ/TRN rebrand 🤔


----------



## Tweeters

How is the fit and noise isolation of the ZSX compared to something like ZSR or ZS4? I know the shell is a bit large but am hoping to get a better idea of comfort and isolation


----------



## Coniboy

PhonoPhi said:


> CCA is a sister brand of KZ.
> Some IEMs are very close, like C12 and ZSX, while C10 is unique to CCA being made in between ZS10 and ZS10 pro (most closely related).



OK, thanks. And what you think about the C10 ? Compared to the KZ?


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## PhonoPhi

Coniboy said:


> OK, thanks. And what you think about the C10 ? Compared to the KZ?


C10 are safe (treble-wise) and quite resolving, the same nice build as KZ.

C10 are a great pick under $25 together with ****, **** pro and Blon 03, in my opinion.

ZS10 pro are fun and engaging.
ZSX are the best IEM under $40, I can imagine (as well as C12).


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## Coniboy

PhonoPhi said:


> C10 are safe (treble-wise) and quite resolving, the same nice build as KZ.
> 
> C10 are a great pick under $25 together with ****, **** pro and Blon 03, in my opinion.
> 
> ...




Thanks. What the differences beetwen C10 and C12 in terms of sound, and in terms of global quality?


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## PhonoPhi

"Global quality" is not the right thinking. Individual preferences are all that matter! (Just look at people whining about $1000+ IEMs...)

If you are OK with more treble, C12 will be much more in sound, in my opinion.
If not - C10 are nice and safe.

The build is about the same,  I did not have significant problems with 20+ KZ/CCA, while I will not buy any more TRN ever!

The C10 connector type is simpler (common 2-pin vs.QDC- like one in C12); more universal cables.


----------



## brianforever

axhng said:


> Quick 1 hour impression on the Z1. Holy sh!t. It's been a while since I've used the ZSX and I've given them away so can't compare then side by side, but this does remind me a bit of that, in the sense that nothing seems to be lacking in the FR. Bass, mids, treble are all presented well without any part sounding too excessive or recessed (unless you really don't like bass that is).
> 
> In a track like Caravan from whiplash movie's soundtrack, the intro portion with the drums the presentation of the bass drum doesn't over shadow the cymbal and hi hat. When the double bass and brass instruments kicks in, it's the same thing, everything still sounds coherent to me.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed review mate..I almost plowed down dosh for this, but seeing that its only 2 hours battery life and doesn't have a cabled option..I will wait for a upgraded iteration of this then,  Cheers


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## peskypesky

Slater said:


> That’s always the million dollar question. Buy what’s available now, or wait for the next thing?


 When speaking of Chi-fi IEM's, it's more of a $20-40 question.


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## tgx78

PhonoPhi said:


> "Global quality" is not the right thinking. Individual preferences are all that matter! (Just look at people whining about $1000+ IEMs...)
> 
> If you are OK with more treble, C12 will be much more in sound, in my opinion.
> If not - C10 are nice and safe.
> ...



Not taking any gamble with the TRN products as well. 

I've ordered about 30+ chi-fi last few years and only 3 units were defective and they were all TRN products.


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## axhng

brianforever said:


> Thanks for the detailed review mate..I almost plowed down dosh for this, but seeing that its only 2 hours battery life and doesn't have a cabled option..I will wait for a upgraded iteration of this then,  Cheers



Yeah. if only they added a 2 pin or MMCX connector like the BGVP Q2 or the upcoming Tin Hifi T2000. So at least if the battery is completely dead, it can still be used with cable. But it will probably add to the cost as well considering the BGVP Q2 is more than double the price of the Z1.   

https://www.linsoul.com/pages/tin-hifi-t2000


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## brianforever (May 2, 2020)

axhng said:


> Yeah. if only they added a 2 pin or MMCX connector like the BGVP Q2 or the upcoming Tin Hifi T2000. So at least if the battery is completely dead, it can still be used with cable. But it will probably add to the cost as well considering the BGVP Q2 is more than double the price of the Z1.
> 
> https://www.linsoul.com/pages/tin-hifi-t2000


yeah @axhng I have given KZ some tips before to create a more purposeful TWS that could be alternated into a wired IEM..hope they heed our advice to become a winner, albeit with a lower price point  

Anyway just to add..already have another TWS solution with any of my fav earphones..utilising a BT5.0 module with a 3.5 mm connector, has aptX wireless bluetooth audio technology, utilising the latest Qualcomm CSR8645 SOC with 8 hours of battery life,  super cheap & compact too


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## axhng

Ended up finishing my review much earlier than expected. Partly because the battery life test didn't really take that long   , partly because they are on sale already so wanted to get my review out so folks know what to expect (microUSB, battery life, etc), and partly because I was just excited to talk about these. I'm really liking how these sound. I was already expecting to like it a bit more than the S1/S2 due to it being a 1DD setup (personal preference), but I wasn't expecting it to be this good. Anyway, headphonesty just posted on their facebook that they received the Z1 too, so we'll see if someone else can confirm what I'm hearing or my ears are busted already. While I personal love it and think it's worth it, the battery life might be a deal breaker for some. But nonetheless, I like the direction that KZ is taking with their tuning.


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## Coniboy

PhonoPhi said:


> "Global quality" is not the right thinking. Individual preferences are all that matter! (Just look at people whining about $1000+ IEMs...)
> 
> If you are OK with more treble, C12 will be much more in sound, in my opinion.
> If not - C10 are nice and safe.
> ...




Thanks.  I don't want more treble, so C10. 

Thanks for your point of you and your advices @PhonoPhi


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## DynamicEars

Crinacle just measure the ZSX
Personally i feel his measurement to be pretty accurate, at least to my ears.

Here the result :



Credit goes to @crinacle of course.


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## IEManiac

Essentially identical to the ZS10 Pro between 20Hz and 4kHz.


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## PhonoPhi

IEManiac said:


> Essentially identical to the ZS10 Pro between 20Hz and 4kHz.


It is the same genre as his identical copy-pasted comments for C12, ZSN pro and AS16 in his "Insignificants"...


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## voicemaster

Kz, BLON, CCA chilling time.


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## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Kz, BLON, CCA chilling time.



Very nice!

And in a KEF M200 case to boot!


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## IEManiac

PhonoPhi said:


> It is the same genre as his identical copy-pasted comments for C12, ZSN pro and AS16 in his "Insignificants"...


I don't think he made up or copied the measurements. My comment went to the issue that they are very similar and that the differences in sound are not necessarily that one is _better_ than the other, but rather a matter of taste.


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## wangtox

I’m sure this has been asked before but this thread is massive. Anyone find the KSX to have a lot of mid range suckout? I got these purely for working out so I’m mot trying to be too picky just seems to lack mid range


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## peskypesky

I can't believe the KZ ZS5 are now only about $16. That's half the price I paid for them when they came out IIRC.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...fbPpAbW6FkwUCM3lAh8aAvJnEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Is this because they've fallen out of favor with the Chi-fi crowd and no one wants them?


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## TheVortex

peskypesky said:


> I can't believe the KZ ZS5 are now only about $16. That's half the price I paid for them when they came out IIRC.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...fbPpAbW6FkwUCM3lAh8aAvJnEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> Is this because they've fallen out of favor with the Chi-fi crowd and no one wants them?



Possibly because the V2 is inferior to the V1 version and the V2 is overly bright.

Also newer KZ's meant these was less and less purchased.


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## peskypesky (May 5, 2020)

Can anyone compare the KZ ZS5 with the KZ ES4?

I'm thinking about getting the ES4 because I've heard they have strong bass, and I like that. But since I already have two pairs of ZS5's, I'm not sure if I should bother getting the ES4.

Or should I spend a bit more and get the Revonext QT2s?


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## Podster

peskypesky said:


> Can anyone compare the KZ ZS5 with the KZ ES4?
> 
> I'm thinking about getting the ES4 because I've heard they have strong bass, and I like that. But since I already have two pairs of ZS5's, I'm not sure if I should bother getting the ES4.
> 
> Or should I spend a bit more and get the Revonext QT2s?



As mentioned above the ZS5v1 is the only ZS5 as not all upgrades are truly upgrades  ZS5 is going to have a little clearer top end but the real + at least for me with the ZS4 is they are simply the best fitting iem I've ever worn and combined with a balanced output they can be worn like 4 eva Not to mention balanced is just dreamy


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## captione

I saw a seller with a KZ ED9 with the old packaging and all (just by judging at ratings/reviews in a similar online shop like AliExpress) ,and for almost half the price of the new ones, from 11 - 12 usd to 6 usd! Is it worth to pull the trigger or should I just buy the newer ones?


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## Slater

captione said:


> I saw a seller with a KZ ED9 with the old packaging and all (just by judging at ratings/reviews in a similar online shop like AliExpress) ,and for almost half the price of the new ones, from 11 - 12 usd to 6 usd! Is it worth to pull the trigger or should I just buy the newer ones?



Nothing wrong with the older ones. Go for it!


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## Slater

peskypesky said:


> I can't believe the KZ ZS5 are now only about $16. That's half the price I paid for them when they came out IIRC.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000168982354.html
> 
> Is this because they've fallen out of favor with the Chi-fi crowd and no one wants them?



I think it’s just KZ clearing out old inventory. I picked up a ZS6 for $21 during 11.11.

Lots of deals on the older budget KZ models. They may not be as bling as the newer releases, but many of them still sound great.


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## Podster

captione said:


> I saw a seller with a KZ ED9 with the old packaging and all (just by judging at ratings/reviews in a similar online shop like AliExpress) ,and for almost half the price of the new ones, from 11 - 12 usd to 6 usd! Is it worth to pull the trigger or should I just buy the newer ones?



If you are referring to this case and they are still sealed I would not hesitate especially for 6 Bones


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## peskypesky

Podster said:


> As mentioned above the ZS5v1 is the only ZS5 as not all upgrades are truly upgrades  ZS5 is going to have a little clearer top end but the real + at least for me with the ZS4 is they are simply the best fitting iem I've ever worn and combined with a balanced output they can be worn like 4 eva Not to mention balanced is just dreamy


So you prefer the ZS4 to the ZS5 for comfort. But also for sound?

KZ has so many earphones it's kind of overwhelming trying to keep it all straight. I was asking about the ES4, because I heard they have especially strong bass. The ZS4 is another option.


----------



## peskypesky

Slater said:


> I think it’s just KZ clearing out old inventory. I picked up a ZS6 for $21 during 11.11.
> 
> *Lots of deals on the older budget KZ models. They may not be as bling as the newer releases, but many of them still sound great.*



Oh for sure. I've been listening with my KZ ED9's the past week and they sound really nice still.

Just because a model is old, doesn't mean it can't still compete with newer modes. Just ask the Koss PortaPro! Introduced in 1984 and still going strong.


----------



## captione

Thank you guys! I'll definitely grab that once the quarantine ends



peskypesky said:


> So you prefer the ZS4 to the ZS5 for comfort. But also for sound?
> 
> KZ has so many earphones it's kind of overwhelming trying to keep it all straight. I was asking about the ES4, because I heard they have especially strong bass. The ZS4 is another option.


I have the ES4. Really warm and deep bass, also if you're planning to buy one you might as well buy some wide-bore tips like Tenmak Whirlwinds to further accentuate the mids presentation.


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## PaulBoy

Hello ... I hope this is the right place to post? - I tried searching for issues with the KZ ZS10 Pro iems but couldn't find the answer I was after? - I am also pretty new to "proper" iems to be honest, having only previously tried the rubbish ones that come with phones etc - So, my recently purchased ZS10 Pros arrived & I was keen to give them a blast, but straight out of the box I ran into issues - Firstly the "manual" is tiny with equally tiny writing! - Even struggled to read it with a magnifying glass & couldn't find the manual online anywhere? -  Secondly, nothing is labelled, neither the units (are they marked at all?), but especially the lead connectors - The manual says the lead connectors are marked left & right, but I can't see anything that tells me which is left & right? - It would help to know if I have everything connected up correctly before I test them out? - Thank you ... Paul


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## DynamicEars (May 8, 2020)

PaulBoy said:


> Hello ... I hope this is the right place to post? - I tried searching for issues with the KZ ZS10 Pro iems but couldn't find the answer I was after? - I am also pretty new to "proper" iems to be honest, having only previously tried the rubbish ones that come with phones etc - So, my recently purchased ZS10 Pros arrived & I was keen to give them a blast, but straight out of the box I ran into issues - Firstly the "manual" is tiny with equally tiny writing! - Even struggled to read it with a magnifying glass & couldn't find the manual online anywhere? -  Secondly, nothing is labelled, neither the units (are they marked at all?), but especially the lead connectors - The manual says the lead connectors are marked left & right, but I can't see anything that tells me which is left & right? - It would help to know if I have everything connected up correctly before I test them out? - Thank you ... Paul



Hi Paul,

The cable should have embossed letters L for left side and R for right side, the cable should be plugged like this pic


The one with cable connection is on the front so in this pic, the left picture shown above is for your right ear, and the right unit on the picture shown above is for your left ear


And to use over ear like this pic


Hopefully you get the message here. Congrats for your new toy! And that a really good toy to start with.


----------



## Podster

Correct but if your old like me you may still need to use a magnifying glass and look from an angle to see that embossed "L" & "R" on the clear connector.


----------



## PaulBoy

Hello & thanks for the speedy reply - Where on the lead / terminal is the L & R embossed? - I can't see anything on my lead? - If it's supposed to be in the first pic I can't see it there either? - I am right in thinking the units themselves aren't marked L & R (?)
Paul


----------



## RikudouGoku

Podster said:


> Correct but if your old like me you may still need to use a magnifying glass and look from an angle to see that embossed "L" & "R" on the clear connector.


Then you have cables with black colors along with black color for the text.. impossible to see without flash light....


----------



## DynamicEars

Podster said:


> Correct but if your old like me you may still need to use a magnifying glass and look from an angle to see that embossed "L" & "R" on the clear connector.



Indeed the embossed letters on clear connector shell are hard to see. I suggest you put colored sticker maybe Red for your right cable (or another Blue for your left cable but not necessary) to indicate. A little help from your family to see which one L and R can be very helpful too to put on sticker label.
Yes its difficult to see, more over for first timer.


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## PaulBoy

Podster said:


> Correct but if your old like me you may still need to use a magnifying glass and look from an angle to see that embossed "L" & "R" on the clear connector.


Thanks, you sent that when I was doing my reply! - Will see if I can get hold of a microscope to use!!!


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## RikudouGoku

PaulBoy said:


> Thanks, you sent that when I was doing my reply! - Will see if I can get hold of a microscope to use!!!


If you have a smartphone from the last 5 years or something you could use the zoom function in the camera.


----------



## Coniboy

Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing


----------



## PaulBoy

DynamicEars said:


> Indeed the embossed letters on clear connector shell are hard to see. I suggest you put colored sticker maybe Red for your right cable (or another Blue for your left cable but not necessary) to indicate. A little help from your family to see which one L and R can be very helpful too to put on sticker label.
> Yes its difficult to see, more over for first timer.


Well, I asked my (eagle eyed) wife to look at these leads with a magnifying glass & she can't find anything either! - I take it swapping the leads from one side to the other won't damage anything?


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## RikudouGoku (May 8, 2020)

PaulBoy said:


> Well, I asked my (eagle eyed) wife to look at these leads with a magnifying glass & she can't find anything either! - I take it swapping the leads from one side to the other won't damage anything?


Not a problem.

I use this to test the L and R if I dont know which one is which due to there are no markings.


----------



## DynamicEars

PaulBoy said:


> Well, I asked my (eagle eyed) wife to look at these leads with a magnifying glass & she can't find anything either! - I take it swapping the leads from one side to the other won't damage anything?



The L and R mark should be on near edge of the cable. Yes it is small and with same transparent color.

If you randomly connect, they should be no problem just if you do that wrongly it will swapped between left sound and right sound. Just use that youtube link to check that @RikudouGoku posted.
Goodluck Paul and enjoy


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## DynamicEars

Coniboy said:


> Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing



Try the ZSX, maybe its the first KZ that doesnt have harshness and infamous metallic timbre in my opinion. Yes they are using new BAs for ZSX.


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## PhonoPhi

Coniboy said:


> Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing


ZSX
CCA C10 is a close relative, with so nicely tamed treble that even Crin could listen


----------



## PaulBoy

RikudouGoku said:


> Not a problem.
> 
> I use this to test the L and R if I dont know which one is which due to there are no markings.



Thanks for the tip! - It appears I've stumbled upon the correct lead in the correct unit! - I was pretty happy I had them connect up correctly after listening to a few old favs! - "Morph The Cat" (track & album) sounds amazing on these relatively cheap iems ... Paul


----------



## Coniboy

DynamicEars said:


> Try the ZSX, maybe its the first KZ that doesnt have harshness and infamous metallic timbre in my opinion. Yes they are using new BAs for ZSX.



Thanks. 

What about the ES4?


----------



## RikudouGoku

you can also use this test:


to check polarity, but I have never had any problems with that.


----------



## DynamicEars

Coniboy said:


> Thanks.
> 
> What about the ES4?


Es4 still using old drivers, and i dont have them nor listening to them but i believe zsx is your better bet, but zsx is more expensive than es4 if budget also into your consideration


----------



## Slater

Coniboy said:


> Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing



EDR1
EDR2
EDSE
ATE
ATR
ED9
ZSE
HD9
ZS6 v2 (not v1)
ZS3E
CCA C10
ED7
ATE-S
ZST v2 (not v1)
ZS3


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## Slater (May 8, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Try the ZSX, maybe its the first KZ that doesnt have harshness and infamous metallic timbre in my opinion. Yes they are using new BAs for ZSX.



That is not true.

Maybe you’re referring to their hybrids, because their dynamics have good timbre, no metallic sound, no harshness.

The original ATR is maybe the exception as it had some harshness, but that was corrected with later revisions of the ATR.

The same with the ZS6 and ZST. Original version had harshness and piercing treble, which has been corrected in the newest retuned versions.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Slater said:


> EDR1
> EDR2
> EDSE
> ATE
> ...


Can confirm or at least agree with the EDR1, ED9 and CCA C10 (dont have the rest so cant deny or confirm them)


----------



## Slater

RikudouGoku said:


> Can confirm or at least agree with the EDR1, ED9 and CCA C10 (dont have the rest so cant deny or confirm them)



I have every single one on that list. They would all meet the OPs requirements.


----------



## Coniboy

Slater said:


> EDR1
> EDR2
> EDSE
> ATE
> ...




All of them?! Sure?  I have KZ EDR2 and I find their sound metallic with high treble.


----------



## raccoon city

Slater said:


> EDR1
> EDR2
> EDSE
> ATE
> ...


Shouldn't ZS7 be on the list as well?


----------



## RikudouGoku

raccoon city said:


> Shouldn't ZS7 be on the list as well?


ZS7 sounds a bit more towards bright-V shaped to me and can be peaky sometimes.


----------



## Coniboy

Slater is joking with us with his big list ahahah


----------



## Slater

Coniboy said:


> All of them?! Sure?  I have KZ EDR2 and I find their sound metallic with high treble.



Not compared to hybrids like ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS5 v2, ZS6 v1, etc.


----------



## Slater

Coniboy said:


> Slater is joking with us with his big list ahahah



No sir.


----------



## Coniboy

Slater said:


> Not compared to hybrids like ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS5 v2, ZS6 v1, etc.


Yes you are true. I have ZSN too and they sound more metallic and harsh than EDR2.


----------



## Podster

DynamicEars said:


> Indeed the embossed letters on clear connector shell are hard to see. I suggest you put colored sticker maybe Red for your right cable (or another Blue for your left cable but not necessary) to indicate. A little help from your family to see which one L and R can be very helpful too to put on sticker label.
> Yes its difficult to see, more over for first timer.



A Dab of fingernail polish works great and stays in place


----------



## axhng

Coniboy said:


> Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing



Gonna throw in a curve ball and say KZ Z1 . I've not tried that many KZs, just EDR2, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, ZSX for wired, T1, S1, S2, Z1 for wireless, and Z1 doesn't sound harsh or sibilant to me. It's actually one of my favourite tuning out of this lot (with maybe just a tad less sub-bass). But if we're just talking wired, my vote is ZSX. It's still a tiny bit fatiguing for me when I had it, but after a tiny bit of EQ to reduce the 8-9KHz region, I can listen to it for hours.


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> Gonna throw in a curve ball and say KZ Z1 . I've not tried that many KZs, just EDR2, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, ZSX for wired, T1, S1, S2, Z1 for wireless, and Z1 doesn't sound harsh or sibilant to me. It's actually one of my favourite tuning out of this lot (with maybe just a tad less sub-bass). But if we're just talking wired, my vote is ZSX. It's still a tiny bit fatiguing for me when I had it, but after a tiny bit of EQ to reduce the 8-9KHz region, I can listen to it for hours.



I wonder why the Z1 isnt getting much talk in TWS thread, or many people think its just another TWS? Cause i feel the Z1 is something different with their 10mm DD and the good tuning.

Btw @axhng , do the Z1 case can hold bigger / longer eartips? Since with haylou GT1 plus, i barely can use any aftermarket eartips, just very limited (spinfit cp360, very short tws eartips) eartips ? Do the case have much more space to hold other eartips while still can charge the unit without any problem? Thanks


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> I wonder why the Z1 isnt getting much talk in TWS thread, or many people think its just another TWS? Cause i feel the Z1 is something different with their 10mm DD and the good tuning.
> 
> Btw @axhng , do the Z1 case can hold bigger / longer eartips? Since with haylou GT1 plus, i barely can use any aftermarket eartips, just very limited (spinfit cp360, very short tws eartips) eartips ? Do the case have much more space to hold other eartips while still can charge the unit without any problem? Thanks



Well, it's still not going to be as good resolution wise because of its limitations. Also 2 hour battery life is probably a non-starter for many folks. Even with the original samsung iconx back in 2016, I was able to get 1.5hr of use on a single charge, and it even has extra features like activity tracking, heart rate tracking. So it's really quite underwhelming in that regard i guess. but i do feel like the tuning and sub-bass response stands out amongst a lot of other budget TWS, especially for my main use of TWS which is jogging. that higher volume and deeper bass makes it really enjoyable to use.

I just tested it with some new bee silcone tips and it fits in the case just fine. the new bee foam works too actually. The bottom portion of the earbuds will be lifted up a bit more, but case still closes just fine. Just that for the large sized one would be a tighter fit and i would need to gently push it down a little to get it to touch the charging contacts.


----------



## Slater (May 8, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> I wonder why the Z1 isnt getting much talk in TWS thread, or many people think its just another TWS?



A large % of the TWS thread writes off any TWS that doesn’t have at least 8-10 hours of battery (despite that being a minuscule minority of available TWS earphones). They wouldn’t give a TWS with measly 2 hour battery life a second thought.

Also, I’m not sure what the Z1 has, but they get triggered by any TWS that has microUSB charging instead of a USB-C.

My guess is that it’s the low battery life. I personally don’t care about that, so I may pick one up during the next sale. I want to wait for more impressions to come in though; specifically about the reliability of the Bluetooth connection.


----------



## voicemaster

Coniboy said:


> Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing


The safest bet is KZ ZS7.


----------



## StSe

PaulBoy said:


> Hello & thanks for the speedy reply - Where on the lead / terminal is the L & R embossed? - I can't see anything on my lead? - If it's supposed to be in the first pic I can't see it there either? - I am right in thinking the units themselves aren't marked L & R (?)
> Paul


You have to turn them in the light until you see the engraved letters. 
Maybe some pictures help:
The R is better visible ...








... than the L


----------



## RikudouGoku

StSe said:


> You have to turn them in the light until you see the engraved letters.
> Maybe some pictures help:
> The R is better visible ...
> 
> ...


makes you wonder how hard it would be for manufacturers to just put some kind of color on them so you can actually read it normally...


----------



## Slater

RikudouGoku said:


> makes you wonder how hard it would be for manufacturers to just put some kind of color on them so you can actually read it normally...



It’s very easy. I use red and blue UV nail polish. Works awesome and very easy to see


----------



## RikudouGoku

Slater said:


> It’s very easy. I use red and blue UV nail polish. Works awesome and very easy to see


yeah there are ways to fix it yourself but sure would be less of an annoyance if it came marked from the beginning.


----------



## Podster

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah there are ways to fix it yourself but sure would be less of an annoyance if it came marked from the beginning.



Hey, these are budget you know and paint cost money, of course I bet they pay for the die that embeds the "L" & "R" as well but just imagine how nice it would be for the consumer if they just dropped a little red and blue paint into those indents!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Podster said:


> Hey, these are budget you know and paint cost money, of course I bet they pay for the die that embeds the "L" & "R" as well but just imagine how nice it would be for the consumer if they just dropped a little red and blue paint into those indents!


I seen stuff at the 100-300 usd range that doesnt have any paint for the markings either...like the LZ A6 and the Moondrop Blessing 2.


----------



## voicemaster

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah there are ways to fix it yourself but sure would be less of an annoyance if it came marked from the beginning.


True audiophile don't need any marker to tell Left from Right lol. JKing


----------



## richario

Coniboy said:


> Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing


AS10 for me, great fast bass, best KZ mids in my opinion - much more prominent. The treble is rolled off, while all the detail is there they never get sibilant or harsh.


----------



## PhonoPhi

richario said:


> AS10 for me, great fast bass, best KZ mids in my opinion - much more prominent. The treble is rolled off, while all the detail is there they never get sibilant or harsh.


AS10 are a marvel, started my fascinations with KZ.
CCA C16 would be the development from AS10 with really rich mids, similar bass and also quite rolled off treble.


----------



## PaulBoy

StSe said:


> You have to turn them in the light until you see the engraved letters.
> Maybe some pictures help:
> The R is better visible ...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the pics - It was helpful to see where the R & L letters "should" be - I took similar pics with my camera & I can assure you there are NO letters anywhere on my plugs!
Maybe KZ are deliberately trying to drive people insane by not even putting the letters on anymore? - I did get the iems working by trial & error / help from the good people here!
Cheers ... Paul


----------



## rggz

People really get bored during this quarantine, from a local forum:





ZST creepy edition


----------



## voicemaster

It more gross than creepy for me


----------



## Slater

PaulBoy said:


> Thanks for the pics - It was helpful to see where the R & L letters "should" be - I took similar pics with my camera & I can assure you there are NO letters anywhere on my plugs!
> Maybe KZ are deliberately trying to drive people insane by not even putting the letters on anymore? - I did get the iems working by trial & error / help from the good people here!
> Cheers ... Paul



What KZ model?


----------



## PaulBoy

Slater said:


> What KZ model?


ZS10 Pro bought off the 'zon


----------



## Slater

PaulBoy said:


> ZS10 Pro bought off the 'zon



Here’s the channel indicator on ZS10 Pro‘s cable:


----------



## PaulBoy

Slater said:


> Here’s the channel indicator on ZS10 Pro‘s cable:


Thanks for that! - You know, I think I can just about make out the R on one of the tips - It is VERY faint, so maybe it's my Mr Magoo eyesight after all ... Paul


----------



## Slater

PaulBoy said:


> Thanks for that! - You know, I think I can just about make out the R on one of the tips - It is VERY faint, so maybe it's my Mr Magoo eyesight after all ... Paul



Haha, gotta love J. Quincy Magoo


----------



## IEManiac

rggz said:


> People really get bored during this quarantine, from a local forum:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does it tame the treble?


----------



## genck

IEManiac said:


> Does it tame the treble?


they eat your ear drum, so yes.


----------



## IEManiac

genck said:


> they eat your ear drum, so yes.


As a T2G devotee, you should check out the Queen LTD.


----------



## genck

IEManiac said:


> As a T2G devotee, you should check out the Queen LTD.


Probably will, I do like the T2G a lot.


----------



## darmanastartes

Slater said:


> A large % of the TWS thread writes off any TWS that doesn’t have at least 8-10 hours of battery (despite that being a minuscule minority of available TWS earphones). They wouldn’t give a TWS with measly 2 hour battery life a second thought.
> 
> Also, I’m not sure what the Z1 has, but they get triggered by any TWS that has microUSB charging instead of a USB-C.
> 
> My guess is that it’s the low battery life. I personally don’t care about that, so I may pick one up during the next sale. I want to wait for more impressions to come in though; specifically about the reliability of the Bluetooth connection.


I don't have an opinion on the Z1 specifically, but 2 hour battery life is unironically bad, and no product launching in 2020 should have Micro-USB.


----------



## PhonoPhi

New KZ " wired" offerings: AS18, AS20, ZSXXX (?) are sadly missed


----------



## rayliam80

I'm just going to put this out there but KZ electrostatic iems/headphones in the future? As long as it took to get the BA drivers right, I wonder how long it'd take to get electrostatic drivers right. And piezos in a KZ someday? Thoughts?


----------



## tgx78

rayliam80 said:


> I'm just going to put this out there but KZ electrostatic iems/headphones in the future? As long as it took to get the BA drivers right, I wonder how long it'd take to get electrostatic drivers right. And piezos in a KZ someday? Thoughts?



I doubt it. They will concentrate building TWS from now on. That is where the $$$ are. 
Majority of piezo drivers are ridiculously hard to implement correctly.


----------



## baskingshark (May 10, 2020)

rayliam80 said:


> I'm just going to put this out there but KZ electrostatic iems/headphones in the future? As long as it took to get the BA drivers right, I wonder how long it'd take to get electrostatic drivers right. And piezos in a KZ someday? Thoughts?



Most of the "electrostat" stuff used in cheaper CHIFI like say Shouer are probably electrets, which may theoretically lose their charge over time. The true electrostats are very pricey and it doesn't seem that KZ is targeting the more expensive market segment. They tried entering the $100 market with the KZ AS16 and it didn't do too well, as the competition there is tremendous against other big boys. I personally think KZ are kings at the sub $50 region and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Well I would be happy if KZ can even release non wireless gear now haha, be it just DD/multi BA/hybrids, I won't be greedy and ask for electrostat/electrets or other exotic drivers LOL. They actually did quite well with their single DD releases previously, not sure why they abandoned it to go down the driver nuclear race in hybrids/multi BAs, then abandon that to go down the TWS route.


----------



## rayliam80

tgx78 said:


> I doubt it. They will concentrate building TWS from now on. That is where the $$$ are.
> Majority of piezo drivers are ridiculously hard to implement correctly.



I was thinking like two or three years in the future. Perhaps piezo driver prices drop and implementation becomes easier or the driver design somehow makes them easier to implement. I'm hoping KZ sells enough TWS units to continue pushing one or two wired headsets a year. 



baskingshark said:


> Most of the "electrostat" stuff used in cheaper CHIFI like say Shouer are probably electrets, which may theoretically lose their charge over time. The true electrostats are very pricey and it doesn't seem that KZ is targeting the more expensive market segment. They tried entering the $100 market with the KZ AS16 and it didn't do too well, as the competition there is tremendous against other big boys. I personally think KZ are kings at the sub $50 region and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> 
> Well I would be happy if KZ can even release non wireless gear now haha, be it just DD/multi BA/hybrids, I won't be greedy and ask for electrostat/electrets or other exotic drivers LOL. They actually did quite well with their single DD releases previously, not sure why they abandoned it to go down the driver nuclear race in hybrids/multi BAs, then abandon that to go down the TWS route.



It makes me think that when KZ nicknamed the ZSX in their literature as "The Terminator" they may have misunderstood the translation and maybe meant to say "terminated" instead. As far as the the electrets, theoretically, the driver will just die over time or just stop working one day? I know in this hobby we're always moving on to the next hype train but everyone falls in love with at least one or a few usually. I'd hate to be the guy who falls in love with the Shouer Tape just to know that what makes them brilliant won't last forever. 

My wallet never got around to trying any of the all BA offerings from KZ. I'd be happy really happy, as others, who are still into wired headsets if KZ comes out at least with one or two this year. I should probably pick up the ED9 someday among a few others I missed out on that are still available. I'm still searching for the right tip for the ZS3 so they don't get stuck in my ears like that do. They fit so well that they're ridiculously hard to remove without getting the ear tip lodged in my ear canal. And as far as TWS, I'm just kinda staying away from all of it as it's another thing to charge in my digital life and I have a dap (AP80) that does bluetooth two-way if I need it.


----------



## Coniboy

richario said:


> AS10 for me, great fast bass, best KZ mids in my opinion - much more prominent. The treble is rolled off, while all the detail is there they never get sibilant or harsh.


Thanks for contribution.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Most of the "electrostat" stuff used in cheaper CHIFI like say Shouer are probably electrets, which may theoretically lose their charge over time. The true electrostats are very pricey and it doesn't seem that KZ is targeting the more expensive market segment. They tried entering the $100 market with the KZ AS16 and it didn't do too well, as the competition there is tremendous against other big boys. I personally think KZ are kings at the sub $50 region and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
> 
> Well I would be happy if KZ can even release non wireless gear now haha, be it just DD/multi BA/hybrids, I won't be greedy and ask for electrostat/electrets or other exotic drivers LOL. They actually did quite well with their single DD releases previously, not sure why they abandoned it to go down the driver nuclear race in hybrids/multi BAs, then abandon that to go down the TWS route.


The driver in the Shuoer Tape is actually an magnetostat + DD hybrid.


----------



## Cevisi

PhonoPhi said:


> New KZ " wired" offerings: AS18, AS20, ZSXXX (?) are sadly missed


yes i also would love to see new wired kz iems. i had one pair of zsn pro. and for that prices just wow. i ordered a few pairs just to gift to some friends.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Cevisi said:


> yes i also would love to see new wired kz iems. i had one pair of zsn pro. and for that prices just wow. i ordered a few pairs just to gift to some friends.


I totally agree, for me ZSN, ZSN pro and CCA CA4 are great under $15 (I need BA sparkle to enjoy music, especially violins )

I slightly prefer CA4 out of 3 (or 4 if to count green and purple ZSNs) - a bit more W (?),  as someone put it.


----------



## pfloyd

PhonoPhi said:


> I totally agree, for me ZSN, ZSN pro and CCA CA4 are great under $15 (I need BA sparkle to enjoy music, especially violins )
> 
> I slightly prefer CA4 out of 3 (or 4 if to count green and purple ZSNs) - a bit more W (?),  as someone put it.


Agree totally, the CA4 are astounding for the money!


----------



## Ynot1

I was wondering if someone can do a test. When you have 2 KZ Z1, how many hours can you listen in stereo without dropping the music? Is it 4 hours or more?


----------



## DynamicEars

Ynot1 said:


> I was wondering if someone can do a test. When you have 2 KZ Z1, how many hours can you listen in stereo without dropping the music? Is it 4 hours or more?



Do you mean 2 pair of KZ Z1? I dont think anyone have 2 pairs, even just 1 pair not so many user have this set because of availability (they are still new) and tws people definitely hesitate to spend on 2 hours batt life tws.
I watched KZ Z1 test, no matter how louad the volume is, they still go roughly 2 hours and 30 mins from full charge to drained on single charge. Looks like the 10mm DDs are sucking a lot of power


----------



## peskypesky

PhonoPhi said:


> I totally agree, for me ZSN, ZSN pro and CCA CA4 are great under $15 (I need BA sparkle to enjoy music, especially violins )
> 
> I slightly prefer CA4 out of 3 (or 4 if to count green and purple ZSNs) - a bit more W (?),  as someone put it.



I will be receiving Blon BL-03's soon. It will be my first dynamic driver-only earphone in a while. If there's not enough high-end sparkle, I may order the CA4's or RevoNext GT5's.


----------



## SweetEars

1clearhead said:


> Slater, I hope this gives you an idea...
> 
> Brightest (upper MID's and highs):
> 1) C12
> ...



between C12 and C16 which u recommend?


----------



## dh0licious

Question - the ZS10 Pro (and CCA C12) have screens with very large holes and no mesh cover to stop dried ear wax falling in. Is there a risk here? How do you guys deal with this - add a mesh over the top (which i assume would have an effect on the sound)?

ZS10 Pro:






CCA C12:


----------



## baskingshark

dh0licious said:


> Question - the ZS10 Pro (and CCA C12) have screens with very large holes and no mesh cover to stop dried ear wax falling in. Is there a risk here? How do you guys deal with this - add a mesh over the top (which i assume would have an effect on the sound)?
> 
> ZS10 Pro:
> 
> ...




Actually i think this mesh cover is better than some IEMs eg Audiosense T800, that come with totally no mesh cover.

Aliexpress sells some fine meshes that just prevent debris and ear wax from entering IEMs without a mesh/filter, and this fine mesh doesn't change the sound signature at all.
I've used it on my Audiosense T800 and BLON Cardinal, good insurance for a few cents. I think it can be placed over this harder/thicker stock KZ filter, but i only use it for IEMs with no mesh cover.

I bought mine here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33003003794.html

Just measure the diammeter of the nozzle before hand. And just get from the cheapest shop, search for something like "dust network".


----------



## IEManiac (May 11, 2020)

dh0licious said:


> Question - the ZS10 Pro (and CCA C12) have screens with very large holes and no mesh cover to stop dried ear wax falling in. Is there a risk here? How do you guys deal with this - add a mesh over the top (which i assume would have an effect on the sound)?
> 
> ZS10 Pro:
> 
> ...


I just wear|use them and stop worrying about it. That's how I deal with it.


----------



## Nimweth (May 11, 2020)

Coniboy said:


> Is there any KZ that doesn't have harsh treble or sibilance? Non fatiguing


ZS7 and BA10


----------



## 1clearhead

SweetEars said:


> between C12 and C16 which u recommend?


Haha! ...You put me in a hard spot! I actually like both, since they are different in signature and don't seem to compete against each other. I would recommend the C12 for its low price, comfort and value, and sonic bass and clarity. But, in-the-other-hand, would recommend the C16 if you're a lover of BA's, midrange, and nice technicalities.


----------



## ChristianM (May 13, 2020)

Deleted.....


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Nimweth said:


> ZS7 and BA10



I prefer AS10 in terms of treble (and mids) against BA10. They are surely less detailed, but also in better balance with mids.


----------



## Nimweth

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I prefer AS10 in terms of treble (and mids) against BA10. They are surely less detailed, but also in better balance with mids.


That's interesting, I have not heard the AS10. Sounds like I would enjoy them.


----------



## Danjen22

Could someone recommend some iems for country, rock and blues? I have a lg V40 and tidal hifi which I will be using for playback. I have a reverse slope hearing loss in my left ear but hearing in my right ear is good. I prefer a warmer sound with emphasis on vocals too.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Cevisi

Danjen22 said:


> Could someone recommend some iems for country, rock and blues? I have a lg V40 and tidal hifi which I will be using for playback. I have a reverse slope hearing loss in my left ear but hearing in my right ear is good. I prefer a warmer sound with emphasis on vocals too.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Zs10 pro or zsx for kz iems


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Nimweth said:


> That's interesting, I have not heard the AS10. Sounds like I would enjoy them.


If you want real upgrade go for the AS12. They have the best sounding vocals I've ever heard from any iem. Also the Bass. They are dynamic, V-shape sounding and detailed.
These are my long-term favourite iem, connected to SR15 via balanced $80 copper cable .... no Monndrop S8, no TSMR4 ...


----------



## DynamicEars (May 13, 2020)

Danjen22 said:


> Could someone recommend some iems for country, rock and blues? I have a lg V40 and tidal hifi which I will be using for playback. I have a reverse slope hearing loss in my left ear but hearing in my right ear is good. I prefer a warmer sound with emphasis on vocals too.
> 
> Thanks in advance



If KZ is a must then ZSX. Im using v40 too for mobile
Zsx have better tonality than 'metallic' zs10 Pro, and less bright than C12 and zs10 pro also. Midrange also more balance and forwarded than majority of KZ line ups

The ZsX and CCA c12 are the recent wired KZ IEM that using DWEK BAs, and luckily their new BA is good, the double magnet DD also great for the price.

Im sorry about your hearing loss but if you want you can adjust the balance on your v40 so the left side will be louder to compromise with your hearing loss.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> That's interesting, I have not heard the AS10. Sounds like I would enjoy them.



You may.
Though if you can fit BA10 fine, AS10 may be a side-grade.
I always though of BA10 as more refined crisp version of AS10.
The drivers are the same (the only 4-band  BAs of KZ, all their other BAs and htbrids use only three different types of drivers, opposite to "more BAs is better")
AS10 are surely warmer and special in many senses. Cellos sound like double basses, I love it 



xxAMAROKxx said:


> If you want real upgrade go for the AS12. They have the best sounding vocals I've ever heard from any iem. Also the Bass. They are dynamic, V-shape sounding and detailed.
> These are my long-term favourite iem, connected to SR15 via balanced $80 copper cable .... no Monndrop S8, no TSMR4 ...



AS12 are definitely a gem.
Though I could not get used to  their "as is" timbre. After removing the treble filters, I understood why - they are heavily treble-dampened, without filters their treble surpass A10 and NX7, so then finding your individual treble dampening can make your favourite all-BA IEM. The bass is great, the mids are very good as well. The design and construction are top notch and the price is just under $60 (!)


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

PhonoPhi said:


> ...
> AS10 are surely warmer and special in many senses. Cellos sound like double basses, I love it
> 
> 
> ...



I would say BA10 has more detailed bass, warmer mids and crispier heights 

I like how the AS12 sounds in the lower-treble area. Its very engaging and clear, dont hear any valey or peak. Just a little of coarse, which is great for female vocals. Yes, top end is rolled-off a bit (for example against AS16) and I would call for more, but it is still good and works well for complex music (Rock, Metal, Pop ..)


----------



## Danjen22

DynamicEars said:


> If KZ is a must then ZSX. Im using v40 too for mobile
> Zsx have better tonality than 'metallic' zs10 Pro, and less bright than C12 and zs10 pro also. Midrange also more balance and forwarded than majority of KZ line ups
> 
> The ZsX and CCA c12 are the recent wired KZ IEM that using DWEK BAs, and luckily their new BA is good, the double magnet DD also great for the price.
> ...




KZ's aren't a must, I'm open to other brands in the same price region that offer the same quality for the money.

I have tried to adjust the balance but having reverse slope loss means it's just the bass I can't hear (below 1000 f[Hz]) so treble becomes too harsh.

I have the KZ ATE at the moment but there just seems to be something lacking.


----------



## DynamicEars

Danjen22 said:


> KZ's aren't a must, I'm open to other brands in the same price region that offer the same quality for the money.
> 
> I have tried to adjust the balance but having reverse slope loss means it's just the bass I can't hear (below 1000 f[Hz]) so treble becomes too harsh.
> 
> I have the KZ ATE at the moment but there just seems to be something lacking.



I see. Blon bl05 / BL03 also recommended for great tuning. 
Jade audio EA3 also great but wont suits you since they are more extended on highs thus wull be perceived as brighter set.

Try read about those 2 zsx and bl03/bl05 for this price range.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 13, 2020)

After all these years debating with myself on whether I should get these? Well? I finally did!

Meet my two new colorful amigos!

The *KZ ZS6*
View attachment IMG_20200419_041002_1(2).jpgView attachment IMG_20200419_041520(2).jpg
They sound insane! What was I thinking all these years?! I don't know how many changes they've gone through with improvements in sound alone, but technicality, clarity, and solid bass are spot on!


----------



## Sebulr

Danjen22 said:


> Could someone recommend some iems for country, rock and blues? I have a lg V40 and tidal hifi which I will be using for playback. I have a reverse slope hearing loss in my left ear but hearing in my right ear is good. I prefer a warmer sound with emphasis on vocals too.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Hmmmm I might be wrong here not knowing about reverse slope hearing loss, but if you just have reduced sub bass hearing, get some bass monsters. I recommend trn v60. They are quite bass heavy and v shaped, most people don't like them because I _think_ early qc issues resulting in a badly wired ba driver. Mine are fine however. Not the greatest headphones, but they are only £20.

Maybe the blon bl03, as they have quite a bit of bass too. Fit is a problem with these however... Quite a conumdrum, how much bass and highs do you prefer? Kz zs10 pros are nice too. 

The blons are slightly brighter sounding. Not sure what your preference is.


----------



## Danjen22

DynamicEars said:


> I see. Blon bl05 / BL03 also recommended for great tuning.
> Jade audio EA3 also great but wont suits you since they are more extended on highs thus wull be perceived as brighter set.
> 
> Try read about those 2 zsx and bl03/bl05 for this price range.



I'll look into these, thank you.



Sebulr said:


> Hmmmm I might be wrong here not knowing about reverse slope hearing loss, but if you just have reduced sub bass hearing, get some bass monsters. I recommend trn v60. They are quite bass heavy and v shaped, most people don't like them because I _think_ early qc issues resulting in a badly wired ba driver. Mine are fine however. Not the greatest headphones, but they are only £20.
> 
> Maybe the blon bl03, as they have quite a bit of bass too. Fit is a problem with these however... Quite a conumdrum, how much bass and highs do you prefer? Kz zs10 pros are nice too.
> 
> The blons are slightly brighter sounding. Not sure what your preference is.



I have a set of Sennheiser Momentum Wireless and I like their sound. For me the bass is just right. So something similar in an iem would be great.

Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## pfloyd

Danjen22 said:


> I'll look into these, thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the original momentum wired and it has a more polite treble then much of the kz inventory. I’d recommend the CCA C10 which has a similar polite treble with good bass. The blon bl03 too.


----------



## Slater

pfloyd said:


> I have the original momentum wired and it has a more polite treble then much of the kz inventory. I’d recommend the CCA C10 which has a similar polite treble with good bass. The blon bl03 too.



Same here (Momentum over ear 1.0). C10 and BL-03 are a good recommendation.


----------



## genck

dh0licious said:


> Question - the ZS10 Pro (and CCA C12) have screens with very large holes and no mesh cover to stop dried ear wax falling in. Is there a risk here? How do you guys deal with this - add a mesh over the top (which i assume would have an effect on the sound)?
> 
> ZS10 Pro:
> 
> ...


I think everyone here deals with it by not listening to it or selling it off since they claim it has a metallic sound, which is false. I, on the other hand clean my ears regularly and it's not an issue.


----------



## purplesun

Danjen22 said:


> Sennheiser Momentum Wireless and I like their sound. For me the bass is just right. So something similar in an iem would be great.


IIRC, the momentum had good mid-bass impact. The kz-as06 has similar bass signature, that's good for dance and modern pop. But it has a strong V signature tending towards bass performance, so acoustic accuracy is poor but great for electronic music.


----------



## Tonymac136

genck said:


> I think everyone here deals with it by not listening to it or selling it off since they claim it has a metallic sound, which is false. I, on the other hand clean my ears regularly and it's not an issue.



C12 sounds absolutely fine. Can't speak for the ZS10 Pro as I've never heard it, but the ZS10 is dreadful.

The reason I've come to the thread though is that I've just received my Z1s. First impression is that they're a bit more V shaped than I would ordinarily like. They've got so much power though - the only TWS I've not been able to turn right up. I haven't really listened to much with them yet so I can't say how much I like them or otherwise but they seem pretty good.


----------



## Sebulr

Tonymac136 said:


> C12 sounds absolutely fine. Can't speak for the ZS10 Pro as I've never heard it, but the ZS10 is dreadful.
> 
> The reason I've come to the thread though is that I've just received my Z1s. First impression is that they're a bit more V shaped than I would ordinarily like. They've got so much power though - the only TWS I've not been able to turn right up. I haven't really listened to much with them yet so I can't say how much I like them or otherwise but they seem pretty good.


I actually prefer the sound of the original zs10 over the zs10 pro. It has a slightly lower 2 and 4khz peak. And the bass is slightly boomier. I quite like the fit too, although it I can't  wear it lying on my side like i can with the pro. But i tend to listen at lower volumes so I prefer a more dynamic bass.


----------



## Tonymac136

Sebulr said:


> I actually prefer the sound of the original zs10 over the zs10 pro. It has a slightly lower 2 and 4khz peak. And the bass is slightly boomier. I quite like the fit too, although it I can't  wear it lying on my side like i can with the pro. But i tend to listen at lower volumes so I prefer a more dynamic bass.



I tend to prefer a flattish frequency response and for me timbre is everything. I listen fairly loud though I don't like having my eardrums punched. At the volumes I listen, the ZS10 sounds a bit metallic and "off", much like the TRN V80.


----------



## Sebulr

Tonymac136 said:


> I tend to prefer a flattish frequency response and for me timbre is everything. I listen fairly loud though I don't like having my eardrums punched. At the volumes I listen, the ZS10 sounds a bit metallic and "off", much like the TRN V80.


I tend to send my volume by the level of the bass, and if anything sounds harsh in the upper mids or highs I eq it down. Or if the earphone is bright I'll just tweak the whole lot, to something I prefer. Treble at high volumes really gets on my nerves.


----------



## DynamicEars

Tonymac136 said:


> C12 sounds absolutely fine. Can't speak for the ZS10 Pro as I've never heard it, but the ZS10 is dreadful.
> 
> The reason I've come to the thread though is that I've just received my Z1s. First impression is that they're a bit more V shaped than I would ordinarily like. They've got so much power though - the only TWS I've not been able to turn right up. I haven't really listened to much with them yet so I can't say how much I like them or otherwise but they seem pretty good.



Waiting more detailed review about Z1. V shape isnt my thing, i thought they are more balance. You have GT1 plus if i remembered correctly? Or what KZ do you have for comparison with Z1?
Thanks


----------



## Tonymac136

DynamicEars said:


> Waiting more detailed review about Z1. V shape isnt my thing, i thought they are more balance. You have GT1 plus if i remembered correctly? Or what KZ do you have for comparison with Z1?
> Thanks




After 3 hours listening they're not sounding so V shaped. They're a DD set and they sound it though. It's the Haylou GT2 I have - the KZ is definitely better than those (they just simply do not go loud enough). To be quite honest they're not really comparable to any KZ stuff as the lack of BA takes away some crispness in the treble but oooooh, that timbre. Any specific tracks you want me to listen to?


----------



## DynamicEars

Tonymac136 said:


> After 3 hours listening they're not sounding so V shaped. They're a DD set and they sound it though. It's the Haylou GT2 I have - the KZ is definitely better than those (they just simply do not go loud enough). To be quite honest they're not really comparable to any KZ stuff as the lack of BA takes away some crispness in the treble but oooooh, that timbre. Any specific tracks you want me to listen to?



Its ok Tony, just listen with your fave tracks as you will be able to tell precisely as you are more familiar with them. 
So emphasize is on their great timbre right. 
1. How about technicalities, separation, soundstage, imaging?
2. Is the midrange forwarded / recessed? How is the weight particularly on mids, do they sounded thick or thin?
3. Bass depth, texture and any midbass bleed or bloated? Tight enough?

Just do on your free time Tony, sorry for asking too much since actually i dont have plan to get anymore TWS at the moment, waiting for TWS world to be more mature but seems like this 10mm is revolutionary in terms of sound quality in TWS world (maybe)


----------



## Tonymac136

DynamicEars said:


> Its ok Tony, just listen with your fave tracks as you will be able to tell precisely as you are more familiar with them.
> So emphasize is on their great timbre right.
> 1. How about technicalities, separation, soundstage, imaging?
> 2. Is the midrange forwarded / recessed? How is the weight particularly on mids, do they sounded thick or thin?
> ...



Firstly, I'm listening to tracks I don't like as well as ones I do - this is always a sign I really like the gear I'm listening with.

Timbre is exceptional. I mean really, truly amazing. That's coming from a Blon BL-03 owner.

Detail retrieval is exceptional, like the timbre it far surpasses the Blon although detail was never a strong point of the Blon compared to the likes of the CCA C12. I'm hearing things on tracks I know well that I've never heard before. There is an issue with that as sometimes it digs up the detail and doesn't really know what to do with it, though that could be my brain being overloaded. That said, separation is a strong point. It's the imaging that leaves a bit to be desired. The soundstage is big enough (I never find soundstage to be especially spacious with headphones) but it does seem quite congested around front centre compared to some headphones I've tried.

Bass is strong and hefty but still fast enough to cope with Descendents or Pennywise basslines. It can dominate mixes somewhat - you won't lose basslines with these. That said, they're possibly not for the bassheads. There is a sub bass rumble on Love Me or Hate Me by Lady Sovereign that you feel rather than hear. The Z1 doesn't pick that up, though it goes deep enough to accurately track the bass in Out of Space by Prodigy. The irritating, wrong-sounding upper bass of the Blon BL-03 doesn't affect the Z1 - the track I always use to check this is "There She Goes" by Babyshambles.

Mids are a slightly mixed bag. The Z1 seems to present some vocals slightly further back in the mix than I'm used to hearing them but the more I listen the more I wonder if it's actually slightly shoddy mixing because this doesn't follow a set pattern and also guitars are rendered so beautifully well, where two guitars are being used it's easy to tell which is which. There's a bit less weight and slam to the mids than the bass which is slightly disappointing but then with a simpler mix they sound so natural and musical you forgive that.

Treble is nice and detailed too, without breaking into harshness or sibilance until you get on to Libertines or Oasis tracks. Playing devil's advocate here, the treble SHOULD sound slightly uncomfortable on them.

TL : DR these remind me so much of the first time I heard the Blon BL-03. They're far from without fault but then you'll listen to something and they just render it so well you forgive them again. I'll go out on a limb and say that technically they're a fair bit better than the Blon but it's a similar deal. They'll probably get a bit of a hype train based on people who want a certain kind of sound, with seemingly as many people not feeling the love. They're not perfect but they're really really likeable.


----------



## DynamicEars (May 17, 2020)

Tonymac136 said:


> Firstly, I'm listening to tracks I don't like as well as ones I do - this is always a sign I really like the gear I'm listening with.
> 
> Timbre is exceptional. I mean really, truly amazing. That's coming from a Blon BL-03 owner.
> 
> ...



Thank you for very detailed review Tony, didnt expect you are goung this far.
So they are on par with BL03 in tws form. Sounds pretty good, didnt expect that details and separation too actually. Blon-quality timbre is really a praise and less mid upper bass bleed than blon also a plus point.
Very nice comparison with BL03, i get roughly the picture here. I just need a little push to buy maybe, i was thinking maybe i can skip this but now i want them. Really appreciate your time buddy

Oh and 1 more thing, is aftermarket eartips gonna make it in the charging case? Like normal non tws eartips? My haylou Gt1 Plus cant take any eartips longer than 8mm, and that left me with very small number of choices.


----------



## Tonymac136 (May 17, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Thank you for very detailed review Tony, didnt expect you are goung this far.
> So they are on par with BL03 in tws form. Sounds pretty good, didnt expect that details and separation too actually. Blon-quality timbre is really a praise and less mid upper bass bleed than blon also a plus point.
> Very nice comparison with BL03, i get roughly the picture here. I just need a little push to buy maybe, i was thinking maybe i can skip this but now i want them. Really appreciate your time buddy
> 
> Oh and 1 more thing, is aftermarket eartips gonna make it in the charging case? Like normal non tws eartips? My haylou Gt1 Plus cant take any eartips longer than 8mm, and that left me with very small number of choices.



I'm gonna try rolling eartips within the next couple of days, probably when my Blon BL05 arrive. I'll let you know. I would like to tame the bass just a little. I think losing a little bass would really do these things the world of good.

Update - Wow. Thanks for asking! I've just pulled the Chi-brids off my S1s that were sitting right in front of me. They still charge fine and the sound has brightened up a lot. Vocals are now much clearer and the bass, while still very much there, doesn't dominate. So clearly as well as sounding much like Blon BL03 they also have the tendency for tips to make not just a difference but a huge difference. Only listened for ten mins with the other tips so too early to draw definitive conclusions but I'm impressed.


----------



## DynamicEars

The phonograph already measured the Z1 and true indeed the tuning on Z1 is great, have similarity with ZSX and ZS10 pro except Z1 have great timbre according to several user here. Thanks @axhng @Tonymac136 

The zsx and zs10 pro FR on phonograph also similar with crinalcle's 

So Z1 bass will be more linear, cleaner bass, bigger sub bass, no mid bass hump or bleed, a tad more recessed midrange, safe dop on 3khz area to avoid peaky hump (which is very important to me), a little bit boosted on trebles but every review said trebles is very safe, relaxed, non harsh.
Looks very promising for TWS set, that commonly using 6mm driver to save space and battery. The 10mm DD here is going to help with bass impact of course and louder volume (in trade with shorter battery life - 2.5 hours max on single charge from what I've read.

Im on the fence now watching the situation.


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## DynamicEars

I feel weak    KZ Z1 ordered...


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## SiggyFraud (May 18, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> I feel weak    KZ Z1 ordered...


Yeah, well, yesterday I ordered the ZSX even though I really don't need another IEM. My last KZ was the ZSN, after that I just ordered a spare ED9, and promised myself not to buy any of the new multi-driver units. Curiosity and a 4$ price cut were too difficult to resist...


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> I feel weak    KZ Z1 ordered...



 That TRN VX is looking tempting, but waiting to see reviews first. I was bored and ordered a pair of QKZ VK4 to see what the fuss is about. haha


----------



## DynamicEars

SiggyFraud said:


> Yeah, well, yesterday I ordered the ZSX even though I really don't need another IEM. My last KZ was the ZSN, after that I just ordered a spare ED9, and promised myself not to buy any of the new multi-driver units. Curiosity and a 4$ price cut were too difficult to resist...


If your latest KZ is ZSN (regular) you wont be disappointed, its a great buy and must have KZ item.



axhng said:


> That TRN VX is looking tempting, but waiting to see reviews first. I was bored and ordered a pair of QKZ VK4 to see what the fuss is about. haha



Yes its tempting but its not cheap to play with, since i have too many side grades and have better IEMs actually. For Z1 though, I need them for transit TWS that i can use temporary until TWS world more matured and have great SQ that can compared with entry midfi level. Until that day is coming, Ill stick with this budget TWS (I swore Im using my GT1 plus for this purpose, but ugh 10mm DD is revolution (my excuse).
Thanks for your review also. I order the black ones, seems like very similar shell with my H40


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> Yes its tempting but its not cheap to play with, since i have too many side grades and have better IEMs actually. For Z1 though, I need them for transit TWS that i can use temporary until TWS world more matured and have great SQ that can compared with entry midfi level. Until that day is coming, Ill stick with this budget TWS (I swore Im using my GT1 plus for this purpose, but ugh 10mm DD is revolution (my excuse).
> Thanks for your review also. I order the black ones, seems like very similar shell with my H40



yeah. which is why i'm kinda hesitant to buy the BL-05 as well. Already have a few IEMs that I enjoy and use frequently, and it's more a want rather than a need at this point.   I still use the GT1 Plus occasionally and it's still pretty enjoyable, but mostly i'm just using the Z1 now at home before bed, and especially while jogging. It does produce a bit more wind noises in my ears, but that extra volume is great for me since there are some tracks that are a little softer, and on the GT1 Plus sometimes even maxing it out still feels a tiny bit lacking.

There is a Japanese a cappella cover group that I'm really into these days, and they sound more enjoyable on the Z1 to me. The backing male vocal providing the background beats sounds a little thinner and lacking a bit of body on the GT1 Plus, and the overall track just sounds a bit more dynamic and a bit more fun to listen to on the Z1. I'm kinda with Tony in the feeling that mids are a little bit of a mixed bag. Every once in a while a track comes up that makes me think that "hmm, that sounded a tiny bit recessed?" but then most of the times it's fine and enjoyable for me. Maybe it's the mixing like Tony has mentioned.



I really like the shell design too actually, and it has one of the better fits for my ears amongst the TWS I've tried. Oh, and since i've started using these before bed since about a week ago, I noticed a bug with the LED light when using it with iOS, not sure if it's the chip on the Z1 or a bug with iOS. When music is not playing there is a blue light that blink every few seconds, and that stops when music is playing. But when I select another song in the music app, the blinking light comes on again, and the only way to stop it is to pause and play the music. However, if you're just pressing "next track", it doesn't trigger the blinking light to come on, only when selecting another song manually. I tested with the KZ S2, and it's the same exact behaviour (so probably same chipset). When using with Android it's fine though, and behaves as intended. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## whitete

This may not be the appropriate thread for this but has anyone been waiting for a month or more for orders from AE?  I ordered the ZS10 07Apr and the ZSX 13Apr and they seem to be nowhere near arriving. I’m in the US (sorry about Trump!).


----------



## axhng

whitete said:


> This may not be the appropriate thread for this but has anyone been waiting for a month or more for orders from AE?  I ordered the ZS10 07Apr and the ZSX 13Apr and they seem to be nowhere near arriving. I’m in the US (sorry about Trump!).



I ordered QCY T4 on Aliexpress on 29th March. No updates since 3rd April after the delivery company picked it up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At this point i'm just waiting 10 more days to open a dispute to get a refund. My guess is the delivery company is probably overwhelmed and lost some packages along the way.


----------



## whitete

Good to know. Thank you!


axhng said:


> I ordered QCY T4 on Aliexpress on 29th March. No updates since 3rd April after the delivery company picked it up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At this point i'm just waiting 10 more days to open a dispute to get a refund. My guess is the delivery company is probably overwhelmed and lost some packages along the way.


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## courierdriver

I ordered Urbanfun ISSO14 from AE during March Anniversary sale. Still waiting for it as well as a balanced upgrade cable. Both were purchased from the same seller. They have been in contact with me voluntarily...in other words, they have sent me updates on the shipping status, even though I HAVE NOT bugged them about it. My items were returned back to the seller by the shipping company, as a result of COVID 19 . They found another shipping company and everything was resent to me. I'm still waiting for my purchases to arrive, but I'm not stressing out about it. We are in the midst of a global health pandemic. It's reasonable to expect that international shipping is going to be delayed, compared to what we were used to in the past few years. FYI folks...the days of quick delivery are over. Shipping companies are now required to follow a whole new set of rules. Social distancing in the workplace, PPE, etc...all this means less people on a sort line or in a station that provides package delivery. Which means; it's inevitable that stuff is gonna take a whole lot longer to get to you. Time to shut up, stop complaining and SUCK IT UP! People are losing their lives and dying by the thousands because of this pandemic. Given that fact, in the grand scheme of things; is it REALLY that important that your latest audio acquisition is running a bit late in getting to you??!!


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## therealjustin

I have been wanting to order the ZSX from AE(first time ordering), but perhaps it is better to just order from Amazon right now given the current situation? If something is wrong, returns seem easier as well, but they are $53 vs $36. No rush at all but I would like to get them... eventually.


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## axborn (May 20, 2020)

therealjustin said:


> I have been wanting to order the ZSX from AE(first time ordering), but perhaps it is better to just order from Amazon right now given the current situation? If something is wrong, returns seem easier as well, but they are $53 vs $36. No rush at all but I would like to get them... eventually.


I'd worry more that the seller is dropshipping and you're just paying 17$ extra for nothing. 
I haven't had any issues with returns on either of these sites, so I wouldn't worry as much


----------



## KevDzn

therealjustin said:


> I have been wanting to order the ZSX from AE(first time ordering), but perhaps it is better to just order from Amazon right now given the current situation? If something is wrong, returns seem easier as well, but they are $53 vs $36. No rush at all but I would like to get them... eventually.



It all comes down to how to much patience one has.

For me I actually don't mind paying a bit extra by buying locally for a speedy delivery and a hassle free return policy. On a side note $17usd is almost $90 bucks after conversion to my currency, so I'll probably look elsewhere.


----------



## gr33nhorn

I got myself a KZ ZS7 after reading the reviews on this thread, and found it rather underwhelming. 
My DD IEM's are Sony MDR XB50AP , and I have a Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD which i use for slightly more critical listening, but was finding somewhat fatiguing, and was looking with something more resolving, but less fatiguing, but having something of either the XB50's humped mid bass boom, or the Xiaomi's Deep bass extension. 
Good thing about the ZS7- yes its not fatiguing, it seems to have more extension, but the highs seem very grainy. Bass is nothing great to write home about - it has neither quality or quantity. Not sure what the reviewers who praised the ZS7 as a basshead IEM were hearing. Maybe i need more burn in

Now onto more practical matters - the tips are hard and uncomfortable. I am NOT a fan of foam tips - any recommends on a reasonably priced pair of silicone tips which can get a better fit?


----------



## genck

gr33nhorn said:


> Now onto more practical matters - the tips are hard and uncomfortable. I am NOT a fan of foam tips - any recommends on a reasonably priced pair of silicone tips which can get a better fit?


Unfortunately, from experience, no tips that fit one person is going to fit another person the same. You need to try a whole bunch out, if you're into good IEM sound, that's the way the cookie crumbles.


----------



## DynamicEars

gr33nhorn said:


> I got myself a KZ ZS7 after reading the reviews on this thread, and found it rather underwhelming.
> My DD IEM's are Sony MDR XB50AP , and I have a Xiaomi Hybrid Pro HD which i use for slightly more critical listening, but was finding somewhat fatiguing, and was looking with something more resolving, but less fatiguing, but having something of either the XB50's humped mid bass boom, or the Xiaomi's Deep bass extension.
> Good thing about the ZS7- yes its not fatiguing, it seems to have more extension, but the highs seem very grainy. Bass is nothing great to write home about - it has neither quality or quantity. Not sure what the reviewers who praised the ZS7 as a basshead IEM were hearing. Maybe i need more burn in
> 
> Now onto more practical matters - the tips are hard and uncomfortable. I am NOT a fan of foam tips - any recommends on a reasonably priced pair of silicone tips which can get a better fit?



Jvc spiral dot / dot++ or azla sedna short 
Both are wide bore. Fits are great with majority people.
Only they are a bit expensive for eartips


----------



## baskingshark

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001062135373.html 

After radiosilence for wired gear for the last few months and just churning out TWS, KZ has a stealth release of the a multi driver monstrosity:
CCA CA16 (7BA + 1DD). Competitor of the TRN VX??

Tip courtesy of @RikudouGoku and @zedbg


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001062135373.html
> 
> After radiosilence for wired gear for the last few months and just churning out TWS, KZ has a stealth release of the a multi driver monstrosity:
> CCA CA16 (7BA + 1DD). Competitor of the TRN VX??
> ...




So who want to be shocked?




V90 vs C12 vs ZSX

Now this VX vs C16.. KZ brand no contest?


----------



## Tonymac136

Interesting that it's launching as a CCA with no KZ version as yet. Perhaps the separation of the two brands is finally happening with KZ being the TWS brand and CCA being the wired, audiophile brand. Probably beats churning out two versions of everything they do!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Tonymac136 said:


> Interesting that it's launching as a CCA with no KZ version as yet. Perhaps the separation of the two brands is finally happening with KZ being the TWS brand and CCA being the wired, audiophile brand. Probably beats churning out two versions of everything they do!


CCA make quite distinct IEMs based on KZ designs.

Their vert first, C04, are based on ZSA but milder and with a different shell, which fits me much better.

CA4 are close to ZSN pro and ZSN, but are my favourite out of these three by the shell design and W-like tuning.

CA10 are unique in between ZS10 and ZS10 pro by the timeline.

A10 are unique  (the other siblings are from KB and Tripowin, no KZ) and served well for me in exploring untamed treble.

C12 are designed simpler than their very close sibling, ZSX. I like ZSX lows, fit and overall better. C12 treble is slightly more cheerful and more likeable to me.

C16 are appreciably milder in treble tuning than AS16. The best th8ck mids. C16 are also noticeable less expensive than AS16. Partly for this lower price,  C16 mesh screens are based on AS10 design are a last-minute thought and do not survive well heavy usage, though easily replaceable (so I can't hold it as any significant flaw).

So I am looking forward to see how CA16 will do, ordered them today.


----------



## Aparker2005

I haven't ordered any new iems since I got my custom ultimate ears. Just ordered the CA16s. Really have fallen out of love with my zs10 pros, so I'll sell them locally.


----------



## seanwee

First Post on head fi in quite a while. Looks so different too. Had to stay away from here to suppress my upgraditis.

In any case, I am bored with my current gear just ordered a pair of ZSX and I am wondering if it would benefit from a cable upgrade. 

How good/bad are the stock cables on the ZSX? Has anyone tried using higher quality cables with KZ iems and how much do they benefit from it?


----------



## genck

seanwee said:


> First Post on head fi in quite a while. Looks so different too. Had to stay away from here to suppress my upgraditis.
> 
> In any case, I am bored with my current gear just ordered a pair of ZSX and I am wondering if it would benefit from a cable upgrade.
> 
> How good/bad are the stock cables on the ZSX? Has anyone tried using higher quality cables with KZ iems and how much do they benefit from it?


You are in luck, you may get them some time next year based off of current shipping times.


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## seanwee (May 24, 2020)

genck said:


> You are in luck, you may get them some time next year based off of current shipping times.


I'm in Malaysia so I should get them in about 15 days. Buying stuff from China is pretty solid here.

Standard shipping from China took less time to arrive here than USPS from the US did. (just received said items a week ago)

Btw has anyone benefited from burning in the ZSX? And has anyone experimented with blocking off the vents?


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## Seazer (May 24, 2020)

seanwee said:


> I'm in Malaysia so I should get them in about 15 days. Buying stuff from China is pretty solid here.
> 
> Standard shipping from China took less time to arrive here than USPS from the US did. (just received said items a week ago)
> 
> Btw has anyone benefited from burning in the ZSX? And has anyone experimented with blocking off the vents?


I personally haven't felt the need to. I enjoy it how it sounds by default. The stock cable is pretty bad so a replacement is nice, I just used a cheap cable from aliexpress I had lying around. Stock tips are pretty good, but I think the ZSX sound us perfected if you use the Sony hybrid style tips, like the stock tips that come with the Sony Mh755. Those tips + ZSX and it sounds great, no desire for burn in or blocking off vents (although by this time it's been plenty burnt in since I've used them so much)

These tips pictured perfect them imo


----------



## IEManiac

seanwee said:


> I'm in Malaysia so I should get them in about 15 days. Buying stuff from China is pretty solid here.
> 
> Standard shipping from China took less time to arrive here than USPS from the US did. (just received said items a week ago)
> 
> Btw has anyone benefited from burning in the ZSX? And has anyone experimented with blocking off the vents?


Don't you have domestic sellers in Malaysia? Here in neighboring Indonesia I could have a ZSX in my hands within days for about $35.


----------



## seanwee

IEManiac said:


> Don't you have domestic sellers in Malaysia? Here in neighboring Indonesia I could have a ZSX in my hands within days for about $35.


I didn't really check. I just looked at shopee and lazada before buying mine. 

What site are you using?


----------



## IEManiac (May 24, 2020)

seanwee said:


> I didn't really check. I just looked at shopee and lazada before buying mine.
> 
> What site are you using?


Our domestic *Tokopedia*. That's where I've gotten all but one of my Chi-Fi IEMs.


----------



## DynamicEars

seanwee said:


> First Post on head fi in quite a while. Looks so different too. Had to stay away from here to suppress my upgraditis.
> 
> In any case, I am bored with my current gear just ordered a pair of ZSX and I am wondering if it would benefit from a cable upgrade.
> 
> How good/bad are the stock cables on the ZSX? Has anyone tried using higher quality cables with KZ iems and how much do they benefit from it?



The stock cable is useable but if you have better cable, they have benefit from it. If you dont have yet, you can try with stock cable, fit is good, quality is average good. No need to rush for upgrade cables.

And yes 100 hours burn in benefit to tighten the bass portion of them.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

DynamicEars said:


> So who want to be shocked?
> 
> V90 vs C12 vs ZSX
> 
> Now this VX vs C16.. KZ brand no contest?


KZ ZSXVI?


----------



## seanwee

Just wondering, what do you guys consider "detailed" to be?

Personally i consider it to be the degree of clarity or how resolving the iem/headphone is. How clearly and crisply it renders each note but also how revealing it is. 

I'm asking this because I've tried a huge number of iems/headphones and a lot of them do not sound detailed to me even though many reviewers say so. For example, i was monumentally disappointed after trying out the Shure KSE 1500 and KSE 1200 which many reviewers called extremely detailed, it sounded the opposite to me. The sound was muddled and honestly if i were asked to guess its price by its sound i would have placed it in the lower end of $100-150 iems, not a $2999/$1999 TOTL iem. What gives?

Same goes for the andromeda and most of Campfire Audio's lineup in fact. The only decent sounding one to me was the Atlas but even then it wasn't worth its asking price.

There are some TOTL IEMs that i do find deserve to be called "highly detailed" like the Jomo flamenco and the Sony IER-Z1R (especially when paired with the DMP-Z1 single ended) but the problem is why does "detailed" sounding vary so much even if the reviewer is the same person?

Is my definition of detailed wrong?

I'd like to add that *ALL* warm or thick sounding iems are automatically muddy sounding by my definition. Warm daps are ok though.


----------



## seanwee

This is also the reason why I've stuck with my tuned Echobox finders for so long. It just doesnt make sense to upgrade for the last 10% if the last 10% costs 40-60 times more than what i have now.

After tuning they sound very similarly (only difference is a 5khz peak) to a Sony IER-M9 for reference.


----------



## baskingshark

seanwee said:


> Just wondering, what do you guys consider "detailed" to be?
> 
> Personally i consider it to be the degree of clarity or how resolving the iem/headphone is. How clearly and crisply it renders each note but also how revealing it is.
> 
> ...



It is very subjective topic, but I would consider *clarity* and *details* to be different. They generally go hand in hand, but some budget CHIFI cheat by boosting the upper mids and treble region, and this increased volume does give clarity to the music, but it may not be the same as giving better details. Warm IEMs, by their very definition of boosting the bass frequencies relative to the treble/upper mids, may sound "muddy" due to lack of upper frequencies, but some of these warm IEMs have extremely well textured and layered bass actually.

I would consider "details" to be certain fine nuances in the background eg vocal breath sounds, squeaks of guitar/bass frets, ghost notes of drums/cymbals, even passing traffic, bird sounds, and coughs/dropped objects in some live recordings. These are of course best heard in a quiet environment, and sometimes u might never have realized this song that you've listened to for months actually has this ghost note here or there. In general, at the budget price range, I find multi BA/hybrids tend to give better details than single DD IEMs, though exceptions exist of course. YMMV.


----------



## seanwee

baskingshark said:


> It is very subjective topic, but I would consider *clarity* and *details* to be different. They generally go hand in hand, but some budget CHIFI cheat by boosting the upper mids and treble region, and this increased volume does give clarity to the music, but it may not be the same as giving better details. Warm IEMs, by their very definition of boosting the bass frequencies relative to the treble/upper mids, may sound "muddy" due to lack of upper frequencies, but some of these warm IEMs have extremely well textured and layered bass actually.
> 
> I would consider "details" to be certain fine nuances in the background eg vocal breath sounds, squeaks of guitar/bass frets, ghost notes of drums/cymbals, even passing traffic, bird sounds, and coughs/dropped objects in some live recordings. These are of course best heard in a quiet environment, and sometimes u might never have realized this song that you've listened to for months actually has this ghost note here or there. In general, at the budget price range, I find multi BA/hybrids tend to give better details than single DD IEMs, though exceptions exist of course. YMMV.


What about gear outside the budget price range?

Having experimented with EQ and making FR measurements i've noticed that what we percieve as well controlled bass is a dip in the 125hz region. You can give it a try yourself. If an iem doesnt reign in the 125hz region well enough they tend to sound bloated and muddy. Higher end warm iems generally dont have this issue (except for the isine and LCDi series from Audeze)

Its the way warm iems have their mids tuned that i dont like, forward mids take clarity and separation away from the sound.

Generally i find well tuned V-shaped iems to be the type I enjoy the most. Recessed mids help more with clarity than boosted highs which typically introduces more sibilance.

What i find strange is that reviewers find V-shaped iems v-shape but not for headphones although they have a similar sound (like the Meze Empyrean)


----------



## chinmie

seanwee said:


> Just wondering, what do you guys consider "detailed" to be?
> 
> Personally i consider it to be the degree of clarity or how resolving the iem/headphone is. How clearly and crisply it renders each note but also how revealing it is.
> 
> ...





baskingshark said:


> It is very subjective topic, but I would consider *clarity* and *details* to be different. They generally go hand in hand, but some budget CHIFI cheat by boosting the upper mids and treble region, and this increased volume does give clarity to the music, but it may not be the same as giving better details. Warm IEMs, by their very definition of boosting the bass frequencies relative to the treble/upper mids, may sound "muddy" due to lack of upper frequencies, but some of these warm IEMs have extremely well textured and layered bass actually.
> 
> I would consider "details" to be certain fine nuances in the background eg vocal breath sounds, squeaks of guitar/bass frets, ghost notes of drums/cymbals, even passing traffic, bird sounds, and coughs/dropped objects in some live recordings. These are of course best heard in a quiet environment, and sometimes u might never have realized this song that you've listened to for months actually has this ghost note here or there. In general, at the budget price range, I find multi BA/hybrids tend to give better details than single DD IEMs, though exceptions exist of course. YMMV.



also the ones that can translate recording informations like reverb effect sound and size, delays, panning effects, etc. i read many people here saying "detailed"  the same way as treble heavy/bright sounding earphones. i personally don't see the correlation between bright and detailed. 

some of the best details and technicalities I've heard from IEMs is from Inear PP8. 

from the KZs, the ZS10 Pro is the ones that i considered detailed for the price


----------



## DynamicEars

Right, details often misinterpreted as clarity or like @chinmie and @baskingshark said bright sounding also
Actually they are pretty much different thing. Details means the driver themselves can pull out the micro details, background instrument comeout on different direction, that you noticed there are never been heard on "not so detailed IEM".
Usually details is very much align or have strong correlate with separation and imaging too.
Detailed IEMs not always be bright IEMs. For example my IER M7 along with M9 have great details or decent (we are talking universally from budget to TOTL) while still having warm signature.

I agree if on budget level, ZS10 pro or ZSX can pull out good details level


----------



## chinmie

DynamicEars said:


> Right, details often misinterpreted as clarity or like @chinmie and @baskingshark said bright sounding also
> Actually they are pretty much different thing. Details means the driver themselves can pull out the micro details, background instrument comeout on different direction, that you noticed there are never been heard on "not so detailed IEM".
> Usually details is very much align or have strong correlate with separation and imaging too.
> Detailed IEMs not always be bright IEMs. For example my IER M7 along with M9 have great details or decent (we are talking universally from budget to TOTL) while still having warm signature.
> ...



yup, the Sony M9 and M7 are a great example of soft/polite tuned but detailed IEMs


----------



## Seazer

seanwee said:


> Just wondering, what do you guys consider "detailed" to be?
> 
> Personally i consider it to be the degree of clarity or how resolving the iem/headphone is. How clearly and crisply it renders each note but also how revealing it is.
> 
> ...



Off topic of your question but I always found the Cult of Sony audio gear amusing lol. I've owned a handful of Sony iems/headphones and everyone in their threads always talk about them needing to be paired with these specific Sony approved cables, and and Sony daps or dac/amps lol. The brand loyalty is strong.


----------



## seanwee

Seazer said:


> Off topic of your question but I always found the Cult of Sony audio gear amusing lol. I've owned a handful of Sony iems/headphones and everyone in their threads always talk about them needing to be paired with these specific Sony approved cables, and and Sony daps or dac/amps lol. The brand loyalty is strong.


I've always been skeptical of those claims as well but the IER-Z1R + DMP-Z1 (single ended) is really in a class of its own. 

Thing is, i dont like the IER-Z1R + DMP-Z1 as much when running it balanced, the balanced output has a warmer and darker sound. Same thing with the WM1Z, balanced was warm and dark, single ended was neutral. on the WM1A its swapped though.


----------



## seanwee

DynamicEars said:


> Right, details often misinterpreted as clarity or like @chinmie and @baskingshark said bright sounding also
> Actually they are pretty much different thing. Details means the driver themselves can pull out the micro details, background instrument comeout on different direction, that you noticed there are never been heard on "not so detailed IEM".
> Usually details is very much align or have strong correlate with separation and imaging too.
> Detailed IEMs not always be bright IEMs. For example my IER M7 along with M9 have great details or decent (we are talking universally from budget to TOTL) while still having warm signature.
> ...


Yes, bright = detailed/analytical is a common mistake many reviewers make but there is some truth to it. Personally I correlate dark = congested sounding as well. And yes, clear and detailed iems often have good instrument separation as well. 

I didnt find the M9s to be warm though, for the bass maybe but not the mids or highs. The highs are just right, not bright but also not warm.


----------



## DynamicEars

seanwee said:


> Yes, bright = detailed/analytical is a common mistake many reviewers make but there is some truth to it. Personally I correlate dark = congested sounding as well. And yes, clear and detailed iems often have good instrument separation as well.
> 
> I didnt find the M9s to be warm though, for the bass maybe but not the mids or highs. The highs are just right, not bright but also not warm.



They are not so warm, i just make an example of warm IEM can be detailed too. But yes personally i would classify them on neutral warm side with decent weight, not thin midrange


----------



## YCHANGE

One of the first headphones I bought was the Koss Pro 35a.  It puzzled me reading about how this sound was muddy.  Porta Pro was described that way as well, yet I love the sound and consider it warm.  The only mud I here is in the recording.  

When it comes to iem's I like warmth so long as the iem doesn't feel closed in or too bassy.  Having several Campfire iems,  I can deal with their interpretation of warmth for the most part.  Lyra II being the best balance of Warmth and Polaris II(over bassy) the worst imo.

The ZST is my favorite of the KZ line up and I appreciate its balance.  The ibasso IT03 didnt go so well.  It had a peaky treble that hurt my ears and weird tuning despite tip rolling.


----------



## seanwee

YCHANGE said:


> One of the first headphones I bought was the Koss Pro 35a.  It puzzled me reading about how this sound was muddy.  Porta Pro was described that way as well, yet I love the sound and consider it warm.  The only mud I here is in the recording.
> 
> When it comes to iem's I like warmth so long as the iem doesn't feel closed in or too bassy.  Having several Campfire iems,  I can deal with their interpretation of warmth for the most part.  Lyra II being the best balance of Warmth and Polaris II(over bassy) the worst imo.
> 
> The ZST is my favorite of the KZ line up and I appreciate its balance.  The ibasso IT03 didnt go so well.  It had a peaky treble that hurt my ears and weird tuning despite tip rolling.


Yeah the IT03 sucked. The IT01 sounded better and the IT01S was even better. The IT04 had s strange holographic sound.


----------



## YCHANGE

seanwee said:


> Yeah the IT03 sucked. The IT01 sounded better and the IT01S was even better. The IT04 had s strange holographic sound.



I thought I had it made with it03 back then.  Such a beatiful iem that fit well.  300$ dollars was my limit and I wasn't spending any more.  Just sent me deeper in the rabbits hole.


----------



## seanwee

YCHANGE said:


> I thought I had it made with it03 back then.  Such a beatiful iem that fit well.  300$ dollars was my limit and I wasn't spending any more.  Just sent me deeper in the rabbits hole.


Trying to dig yourself out of that hole (trying to settle on one iem) just makes the hole deeper. 

My solution was to stop digging. But now my fingers are getting itchy again.


----------



## nraymond

One thing I've experienced is that boosted treble can come across as "more detail" initially, but during any extended listening (>4 hours) I'll start to experience fatigue/aggravation from the boosted highs. If lows are boosted too much in an IEM, during extended listening my ears gets exhausted from the bass and stops responding well to low frequencies in general. It's as if someone is slowly turning down the bass over time, so I don't always notice right away. Switching to another earphone I'll still exprience the bass exhaustion until I give my ears a rest. I have strong suspicions that a lot of people who review earphones don't always do extended listening tests, or listen to genres of music that don't have sustained treble and bass during their extended listening tests. I like to be able to listen to earphones all day with any genre of music I choose.


----------



## seanwee

nraymond said:


> One thing I've experienced is that boosted treble can come across as "more detail" initially, but during any extended listening (>4 hours) I'll start to experience fatigue/aggravation from the boosted highs. If lows are boosted too much in an IEM, during extended listening my ears gets exhausted from the bass and stops responding well to low frequencies in general. It's as if someone is slowly turning down the bass over time, so I don't always notice right away. Switching to another earphone I'll still exprience the bass exhaustion until I give my ears a rest. I have strong suspicions that a lot of people who review earphones don't always do extended listening tests, or listen to genres of music that don't have sustained treble and bass during their extended listening tests. I like to be able to listen to earphones all day with any genre of music I choose.


Generally I can immediately tell whether an iem has boosted highs/lows immediately. 

For some amps and daps however, I'll need extended listening sessions for me to tell them apart for certain. Like listening to one dap exclusively for a few days then switching to the other.

It's easier to tell small differences apart when you're used to one sound.


----------



## seanwee

Just realised that the CCA C12 would have fit my preferences better than the ZSX. Oh well. 

Does the backplate really change the sound so much?


----------



## DynamicEars (May 27, 2020)

seanwee said:


> Just realised that the CCA C12 would have fit my preferences better than the ZSX. Oh well.
> 
> Does the backplate really change the sound so much?



What? They are 2 different IEMs with 2 different tuning on 2 different shells, using similar if not identical drivers. The C12 is having more upper mids boost perceive more clarity but more edgy/harsh at higher volume than more balanced ZSX.

But yeah i do believe shell materials affect the sound distribution / reverberation/ resonance. Even eartips with different material (hard silicone vs softer, foam, etc) also make differences in final sound in your ears


----------



## seanwee

DynamicEars said:


> What? They are 2 different IEMs with 2 different tuning on 2 different shells, using similar if not identical drivers. The C12 is having more upper mids boost perceive more clarity but more edgy/harsh at higher volume than more balanced ZSX.
> 
> But yeah i do believe shell materials affect the sound distribution / reverberation/ resonance. Even eartips with different material (hard silicone vs softer, foam, etc) also make differences in final sound in your ears


CCA is KZ's sister company and the CCA C12 is basically the same iem as the ZSX but with a different backplate. Drivers used are identical, I'm not sure about the crossovers used but even the sound tubes are the same.

Maybe the ZSX has foam dampers in the BAs and the CCA doesn't.


----------



## Danjen22

Just received my CCA C12 with upgrade cable from AE after some advice from some members on this thread. Really impressed so far, they're perfect for me. Fit is good and bass is great considering my RSHL in my left ear. Treble isn't harsh either which as a result of low frequency hearing loss my high frequency hearing is much better than it should be! So, considering how messed up my ears are, I'm well chuffed! Thanks for the help


----------



## seanwee

Danjen22 said:


> Just received my CCA C12 with upgrade cable from AE after some advice from some members on this thread. Really impressed so far, they're perfect for me. Fit is good and bass is great considering my RSHL in my left ear. Treble isn't harsh either which as a result of low frequency hearing loss my high frequency hearing is much better than it should be! So, considering how messed up my ears are, I'm well chuffed! Thanks for the help


Wow I've only heard of high frequency hearing loss before. Never knew low frequency hearing loss was a thing. 

And by better do you mean more sensitive or more tolerant to high frequencies?


----------



## Danjen22

seanwee said:


> Wow I've only heard of high frequency hearing loss before. Never knew low frequency hearing loss was a thing.
> 
> And by better do you mean more sensitive or more tolerant to high frequencies?




I'd not heard of it either. Didn't even know I had it until I decided to have a free hearing test. I'm more sensitive to higher frequencies now some noises or sounds, like glass smashing, can really hurt my ears.


----------



## seanwee

Danjen22 said:


> I'd not heard of it either. Didn't even know I had it until I decided to have a free hearing test. I'm more sensitive to higher frequencies now some noises or sounds, like glass smashing, can really hurt my ears.


What about scraping a glass plate/bowl with a spoon? 

I know a lot of people who absolutely cannot stand that sound XD


----------



## Danjen22

seanwee said:


> What about scraping a glass plate/bowl with a spoon?
> 
> I know a lot of people who absolutely cannot stand that sound XD



Lol, yeah that too. And when my daughter decides to come in trying to play a recorder, that's the worst!


----------



## DynamicEars

seanwee said:


> CCA is KZ's sister company and the CCA C12 is basically the same iem as the ZSX but with a different backplate. Drivers used are identical, I'm not sure about the crossovers used but even the sound tubes are the same.
> 
> Maybe the ZSX has foam dampers in the BAs and the CCA doesn't.



The entire shell are different, not only the backplate. I know that they are sister company, the drivers could be identical but maybe have slightly different tuning. Its like ZS10 Pro and the C10, same configuration with different tuning.

And ZSX dont have dampers on BA nor inside the nozzle (i opened almost my entire collections lol)


----------



## seanwee

DynamicEars said:


> The entire shell are different, not only the backplate. I know that they are sister company, the drivers could be identical but maybe have slightly different tuning. Its like ZS10 Pro and the C10, same configuration with different tuning.
> 
> And ZSX dont have dampers on BA nor inside the nozzle (i opened almost my entire collections lol)


I want to play around with driver swapping as well. 

How did you open up the shells btw? Do you have any pics?


----------



## seanwee

Supremevegbeef said:


> PSA TO ALL ZSX OWNERS: VENT YOUR IEMs!!!
> 
> I was missing the sound of open back headphones. I freaking love the zsx terminators but the one thing I hated the congested sound. and the bass feels like it’s “trapped” sometimes like it’s too powerful for the housing. So I fixed it.
> 
> ...





Supremevegbeef said:


> Yes the have better depth, impact Nd accuracy at very low frequencies than most iem I heard prior to this zsx.
> The difference between stock and ported bass is like being in a club where you can feel the subwoofer. Ported bass is like being in the middle center of an arena show. It’s bigger and wider but hits you less.
> I’ll be honest I haven’t touched as10 since I last posted here.
> Zsx with the silver plated cable to bring a bit of sparkle to the treble. And the porting to widen the stage is the icing on the cake.
> ...


If I decide to go for the bass porting mod but dont like the sound, is it reversible by covering them back up?


----------



## RikudouGoku

seanwee said:


> If I decide to go for the bass porting mod but dont like the sound, is it reversible by covering them back up?


You can probably just cover them with some tape.


----------



## seanwee

RikudouGoku said:


> You can probably just cover them with some tape.


Yes I know but some confirmation from an owner is better than just guessing.


----------



## elzafir

Hey guys, I supposed this is the best place to ask, since you guys have a lot of experience with KZ. I need a Bluetooth IEM for playing PUBG Mobile. I'm running Android 10, so should have both AptX, AptX-HD and AAC support. My priorities are as follows:

Must have:

No Delay in Games & Movies
Voice chat should be clear on the other side (not picking up breathing noise, etc)
Long Battery Life, at least 3 hours, preferably 4+ hours of TALK or more per charge (my gaming sessions last 3-4 hours).
Multi-drivers IEM (hybrid)
Nice to have:

IEM form factor
True Wireless (to minimize rustling and thumping noise due to the moving mic)
Musicality (V-shaped FR is fine)
Touch control
KZ brand (because they have official 1 year warranty in my country)
What I don't need:

Fancy noise cancelling
App connected
AirPod shape (I hate that "tail")
Digital sound enhancements (Dolby, THX, DSEE HX™, etc)
Circumaural and supraaural headphones, since I already have an HD650 for music at home and I'm not one to be wearing headphones when I'm out and about.
I've narrowed down my search to these three:

KZ S2 (Bluetooth 5.0 & AAC TWS)
KZ ZSN Pro + Bluetooth cable (BT 4.0 + AptX)
KZ ZSN Pro + Bluetooth cable (BT 5.0 + AptX-HD)
I know that BT 5.0 and AptX-HD is supposed to be the best BT version & codec combination between these three, but the AirPods Pro and Sony WF-1000XM3 only have SBC & AAC, and they are considered the best on the market (at least, a lot of people seem to use them).

Basically, my question is, would I get away with BT 5.0 & AAC on Android 10 for gaming, or should I go with the safer option of BT 5.0 & AptX-HD, or would the BT 4.0 & AptX would suffice for my needs?

Thanks!


----------



## DynamicEars

seanwee said:


> I want to play around with driver swapping as well.
> 
> How did you open up the shells btw? Do you have any pics?



Wow i never go that far though with driver swapping, just a light mods such as put on dampers (different materials depend on what range to tame, grill mods (to clear up with usual mesh dampers - the idea is the same with your quote about vented bass ZSX, too much air covered, not enough air way at same time that bloated the entire sound signature) etc.
Normally i just open the grill, but if needed you can open with heat gun to melt and loosen up the glue residue and uplift with small, thin screwdriver.



seanwee said:


> If I decide to go for the bass porting mod but dont like the sound, is it reversible by covering them back up?





RikudouGoku said:


> You can probably just cover them with some tape.



Yes its reversible for the sound quality, just cover them with solid tape, or heat glue gun, but definitely not reversible with the looks. You can also cover them with resin or putty of course. Just make sure to think twice before do this. I never try this mod but I think they can be good.



elzafir said:


> Hey guys, I supposed this is the best place to ask, since you guys have a lot of experience with KZ. I need a Bluetooth IEM for playing PUBG Mobile. I'm running Android 10, so should have both AptX, AptX-HD and AAC support. My priorities are as follows:
> 
> Must have:
> 
> ...



Hi, apparently there are no BT / TWS that have zero lags, especially for gaming up to date. Even the best bluetooth set put there. The nee KZ Z1 is the your best bet since they have gaming mode to reduce lag, like QCY T5, but i believe they are not 0 ms. And the Z1 have great driver 10mm (rare in TWS world due the size) in trade off with infamous 2.5 hours batt life in single charge. For the best experience, cable still preferable. But if wireless is a must, so KZ S2 (need to double check whether they have "gaming mode") with longer batt life than newer Z1, both no APTX. DD in Z1 is bigger 10mm instead of 6mm in S2 or majority of TWS currently.
About BT cables / modules they have worse lags.
Usually above 300ms, some are above 500ms. The gaming mode will reduce lags to around about 100ms ish but definitely not "zero lag".
APTX dont necessarily reduce the lag. They just provide better bit per seconds on transfer, theoretically better sound, if you are using great source and player. But still, cant beat wired ones.


----------



## RikudouGoku

elzafir said:


> Hey guys, I supposed this is the best place to ask, since you guys have a lot of experience with KZ. I need a Bluetooth IEM for playing PUBG Mobile. I'm running Android 10, so should have both AptX, AptX-HD and AAC support. My priorities are as follows:
> 
> Must have:
> 
> ...


If you want as close to 0 latency with bluetooth, you will want it to have AptX-LL (low-latency).

aptX-LL: 32ms latency

aptX-HD: 150ms latency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AptX#aptX_Low_Latency


----------



## seanwee

For gaming wired is still the way to go.

Even expensive TWS iems still have a slight but noticeable delay which makes it very annoying as you'll hear the action a split second after you click.


----------



## elzafir (May 27, 2020)

Thanks for the replies guys!



DynamicEars said:


> Hi, apparently there are no BT / TWS that have zero lags, especially for gaming up to date. Even the best bluetooth set put there. The nee KZ Z1 is the your best bet since they have gaming mode to reduce lag, like QCY T5, but i believe they are not 0 ms. And the Z1 have great driver 10mm (rare in TWS world due the size) in trade off with infamous 2.5 hours batt life in single charge. For the best experience, cable still preferable. But if wireless is a must, so KZ S2 (need to double check whether they have "gaming mode") with longer batt life than newer Z1, both no APTX. DD in Z1 is bigger 10mm instead of 6mm in S2 or majority of TWS currently.
> About BT cables / modules they have worse lags.
> Usually above 300ms, some are above 500ms. The gaming mode will reduce lags to around about 100ms ish but definitely not "zero lag".
> APTX dont necessarily reduce the lag. They just provide better bit per seconds on transfer, theoretically better sound, if you are using great source and player. But still, cant beat wired ones.



Bluetooth 5.0 should provide less lag compared to 4.0 right?
The Z1 seems to have BT 5.0 and AAC, the same with S2, so in theory would it provide the same performance? The Z1 is interesting and I like the design better.

The KZ Bluetooth cables has 300-500ms latency? Wow. I thought the BT 5.0 + aptX-HD cable would be better than that.

The S2 does have a "low latency/performance mode", based on several Head-Fi reviews https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-s2.24302/.
And on the official KZ store in my country it is advertised "with gaming mode" https://www.tokopedia.com/kz-official/knowledge-kz-s2-hybrid-tws-headset-bluetooth-with-gaming-mode

But I'm not sure how low the latency is with the so called "performance mode"



RikudouGoku said:


> If you want as close to 0 latency with bluetooth, you will want it to have AptX-LL (low-latency).
> 
> aptX-LL: 32ms latency
> aptX-HD: 150ms latency
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AptX#aptX_Low_Latency



Gosh, 150ms latency? That's borderline unplayable for online gaming. I guess even aptX-HD is a no go for me.
Do you know any affordable AptX-LL IEMs? Apparently the list on aptx.com is not exhaustive. The KZ bluetooth cables aren't there.



seanwee said:


> For gaming wired is still the way to go.
> 
> Even expensive TWS iems still have a slight but noticeable delay which makes it very annoying as you'll hear the action a split second after you click.



Problem is my phone don't have a 3.5mm jack. I used a Baseus 3.5mm & Type-C combo adapter, but it broke on me after a couple months of use due to the weird angle of the connector (the adapter cable got nicked and left me with audio only on one ear). I bought another one but lost it before I got to use it. I spent $15 total for the two Baseuses (Baseii?). It got me thinking to buy a wireless IEM for like $30 and be done with it.

Have you tried any the more expensive TWS IEMs for gaming? Which one?


----------



## seanwee

elzafir said:


> Thanks for the replies guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I use a mmcx BT cable on my ibasso IT01 and have a Sony WF-1000XM3. I've also tried the Sennheiser Momentum TWS , hifiman TWS600, and Aviot TE-D01g

The Sony has the least amount of lag followed by the Aviot. Yes they supports bt 5.0 but my laptop only supports by 4.2 so the protocol does not matter. 

My old Sony BT speakers (XB-2) also have a very low amount of lag. Seems that the way wireless products are designed is more important than the protocol they use. Sony has been one of the longest supporters of wireless audio after all.


----------



## elzafir

seanwee said:


> I use a mmcx BT cable on my ibasso IT01 and have a Sony WF-1000XM3. I've also tried the Sennheiser Momentum TWS , hifiman TWS600, and Aviot TE-D01g
> 
> The Sony has the least amount of lag followed by the Aviot. Yes they supports bt 5.0 but my laptop only supports by 4.2 so the protocol does not matter.
> 
> My old Sony BT speakers (XB-2) also have a very low amount of lag. Seems that the way wireless products are designed is more important than the protocol they use. Sony has been one of the longest supporters of wireless audio after all.



Thank you for the reply. The WF-1000XM3 and Momentum has a noticable lag for gaming/movies as well on BT 4.2?


----------



## seanwee

elzafir said:


> Thank you for the reply. The WF-1000XM3 and Momentum has a noticable lag for gaming/movies as well on BT 4.2?


Sony has the least amount of lag. It's only noticeable if you're playing really fast paced shooters like apex


----------



## caprimulgus

elzafir said:


> Do you know any affordable AptX-LL IEMs? Apparently the list on aptx.com is not exhaustive. The KZ bluetooth cables aren't there.



Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (original one, NOT the MTW 2) supports AptX-LL. If you don’t mind neckband style, then Sennheiser Momentum Free / HD1 Free, and Sennheiser CX 6.00BT also support AptX-LL.

Otherwise, you could try the neckband style FiiO LC BT2 with any 2-pin or mmcx IEM (LC BT2 supports AptX-LL).

All those options are neckband style, except the Sennheiser MTW - if you can find a pair of those for cheap, that might be a good option for you (but beware the battery drain in the case).


----------



## RikudouGoku

elzafir said:


> Thanks for the replies guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you should ask the guys over at the wireless thread.

This one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/


----------



## Tonymac136

@elzafir - the KZ Z1 is dynamic driver only. I say this as you want a hybrid design. For me it's an absolutely fantastic little TWS, but my needs are entirely different to yours. I neither know nor care about lag for gaming as I simply don't use it for that. They don't lag enough to put YouTube videos out of sync, that's about all I can tell you.


----------



## nraymond

Tonymac136 said:


> @elzafirThey don't lag enough to put YouTube videos out of sync, that's about all I can tell you.



The BT protocol has the ability to communicate the latency to the host so the host can delay video playback by the latency amount to keep things in sync. (In online games you can’t do that, so you will always experience BT latency in games.)


----------



## SiggyFraud

My backup ED9 arrived today. Except for the BL-03, this is the only pair of IEMs that I have two of. To me they're truly great, and not only "for the price".


I went with the silver colour this time and I gotta say I like them even more than the black ones.
My unit came with a defect, but nothing a little E8000 glue wouldn't fix.


Spoiler: Defect


----------



## ChristianM

Does the cable with MIC makes any difference in sound quality compare to cable without MIC? thanks


----------



## seanwee

ChristianM said:


> Does the cable with MIC makes any difference in sound quality compare to cable without MIC? thanks


It shouldn't, the mic uses a separate wire independent from the left and right wires. 

The only difference might be the thickness of the cable on the side with the mic but usually only a very thin strand of wire (running down the center) is used so it wouldn't be noticeable.


----------



## ChristianM

seanwee said:


> It shouldn't, the mic uses a separate wire independent from the left and right wires.
> 
> The only difference might be the thickness of the cable on the side with the mic but usually only a very thin strand of wire (running down the center) is used so it wouldn't be noticeable.


Alright thanks for reply


----------



## baskingshark

ChristianM said:


> Does the cable with MIC makes any difference in sound quality compare to cable without MIC? thanks



Some of my friends use measuring equipment and they do report occasionally in some budget cables, the side with a Mic has increased resistance, which possibly may cause channel imbalance. Generally an added Mic is also a potential point of failure in the signal chain, so for pure music purposes, I prefer non Mic cables. But I understand some of us need the IEM to be multi functional for calls and work purposes, so YMMV.


----------



## Keller1 (May 29, 2020)

Rip KZ, they stopped pushing the fidelity in favor of the TWS stuff. 
That seemed like a cool direction until you realize that the only thing they can do is just integrate the same qualcomm crap everyone else has access to. Not even into their already developed lineup.


----------



## baskingshark

Keller1 said:


> Rip KZ, they stopped pushing the fidelity in favor of the TWS stuff.
> That seemed like a cool direction until you realize that the only thing they can do is just integrate the same qualcomm crap everyone else has access to. Not even into their already developed lineup.



Well KZ (or sister company CCA) just released a CCA CA16, their first wired gear in the last 6 months or so. (not to be confused with the older CCA C16).

We're waiting for reviews on this new set, so stay tuned.


----------



## seanwee

baskingshark said:


> Well KZ (or sister company CCA) just released a CCA CA16, their first wired gear in the last 6 months or so. (not to be confused with the older CCA C16).
> 
> We're waiting for reviews on this new set, so stay tuned.


I hope that's where things are going for CCA if KZ really goes all in on TWS and doesn't look back. 

Though I'd still prefer both CCA and KZ releasing wired iems.


----------



## TheVortex

I would like to see a wired version of the Z1 and maybe a KZ variant of the CCA CA16.


----------



## Tonymac136

Definitely a wired version of the Z1. I'd love to hear it fed by a decent DAC.


----------



## axhng

+1 for a wired version of the Z1. More keen on that than a 16 driver KZ at this point.


----------



## Akira1977

Hello, i have some KZ:

ATE, ED9, ZST, ZS3, ED12, ED3...

I like the bass, middle part of the ATE, and the medium high part of the ED9 ( vocals seems too nasal/old telephone sound for me, but they have a high sensitivity and they can manage a good amount of power...)

Is there a model that combine those characteristics?

Maybe with a little more bass, but for me is more important the overall sound quality and how they can handle the power...

Thank you!


----------



## courierdriver

Akira1977 said:


> Hello, i have some KZ:
> 
> ATE, ED9, ZST, ZS3, ED12, ED3...
> 
> ...


Depends on how much you can afford to spend. The models you mentioned aren't too expensive. If you can stretch your budget to the $ 40-50 range, I highly rec the ZS10 PRO.


----------



## Akira1977

courierdriver said:


> Depends on how much you can afford to spend. The models you mentioned aren't too expensive. If you can stretch your budget to the $ 40-50 range, I highly rec the ZS10 PRO.



I can spend until 100 Euros... 

However, i think i've used the 01ED9 very few hours, because i'm noticing more bass coming out now....


----------



## courierdriver

Akira1977 said:


> I can spend until 100 Euros...
> 
> However, i think i've used the 01ED9 very few hours, because i'm noticing more bass coming out now....


Could be a break in thing. Not too familiar with ED9, but if I'm not mistaken, that set uses a dynamic driver? Maybe @Slater  can  confirm? Either way, based on what you are looking for in a sound signature, I really do rec the ZS10 PRO. Great bass, clear mids, and a bit of a tipped up treble. A really fun set!


----------



## Akira1977

courierdriver said:


> Could be a break in thing.



I really don't know, but the KZ ATE are more powerful on the bass, although all the review said that the ED9 have stronger bass...

But it doesn't matter, i'm purchasing the ZS10 Pro, thank you!


----------



## courierdriver

Akira1977 said:


> I really don't know, but the KZ ATE are more powerful on the bass, although all the review said that the ED9 have stronger bass...
> 
> But it doesn't matter, i'm purchasing the ZS10 Pro, thank you!


Congrats! The ZS10 PRO  is a great set! Also remember that it responds well to EQ. Just a few db can make it a spectacular iem. Hope you love yours as much as I do mine.


----------



## Akira1977

courierdriver said:


> Congrats! The ZS10 PRO  is a great set! Also remember that it responds well to EQ. Just a few db can make it a spectacular iem. Hope you love yours as much as I do mine.



Thank you, i will let you know when they will arrive!


----------



## gr33nhorn

I just got the KZ S2. Bass is good, but the treble is still too piercing. the ZS7 is the only one that manages to sound ok. 
Does anyone know where i can get more of the hybrid tips they offered with the S2 on indiegogo? they feel good, but can't find them for sale anywhere else


----------



## DynamicEars

gr33nhorn said:


> I just got the KZ S2. Bass is good, but the treble is still too piercing. the ZS7 is the only one that manages to sound ok.
> Does anyone know where i can get more of the hybrid tips they offered with the S2 on indiegogo? they feel good, but can't find them for sale anywhere else


Its the same eartips with Z1.. Currently they dont sell them separately unfortunately.


----------



## DynamicEars (Jun 1, 2020)

So, yesterday i just received my dream IEM the Z1R !!



Sadly its not the Sony IER Z1R and it comes with Z1L as well..


Lol, joke aside, my KZ Z1 is arrived and to my surprised, they looks and feel better than what I was expecting. Build quality while made by plastic but they are solid and doesn't look like a cheapo pair. And the black color is really elegant, better than the green in my opinion.

The outer charging case


Inside look


IEM units





Mini review / impressions will be posted here later but my first impressions out of the box, they are a serious TWS sound, that can be compete with wired KZs, the 10mm DD isnt a joke, they have serious bass with very decent depth and impact that rarely found in other TWS (that usually use 6mm DD). Their bass is big , on borderline for bassheads but serious bassheads may want a little bit more. Midranges a bit further to me, and a bit on thin side on upper mids, upper mids have little harshness but much better than most KZs, this is more towards zs10 pro tuning than ZSX with more brighter upper mids and highs. Trebles is extended but on safe range.
Soundstage is wide, with very good imaging and separation especially when coming from single DD. Detail retrieval is good, average good, not their strength point.

More detailed impressions later. But this is a good buy for TWS for me, all about sound quality. But still I cant recommend them as decent TWS device, because the trade off for big driver is that they suck out more power so max batt life is 2.5 hours per single charge. And micro USB in 2020.

Will try to burn in (at least for a while, i cant use app, and batt limitation is a hassle)
But for sure im gonna put on micropore tape to make them smoother in upper mids.


----------



## chinmie

DynamicEars said:


> the trade off for big driver is that they suck out more power so max batt life is 2.5 hours per single charge.



that shouldn't be an excuse for KZ.. i have several  chifi TWS with 10mm drivers (even ones with ANC) and all of them can pass 6-7 hours mark easily. i hope KZ would improve on this aspect


----------



## d73b3e

DynamicEars said:


> So, yesterday i just received my dream IEM the Z1R !!
> 
> 
> Sadly its not the Sony IER Z1R and it comes with Z1L as well..



Do your Z1R and Z1L produce hissing noise (or high noise floor) when not playing audio?

They also just release the CCA CA16 with the form factor quite similar to the Z1RL at $60 for 16 drivers T__T


----------



## seanwee

In case you guys didnt know yet, Crinacle's graph comparison tool is great for comparing and finding upgrade paths and/or cheaper alternatives to iems you like.

https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/

I found out that the iems i like (IER-Z1R, Jomo Flamenco, etc) are all very close to Crinacle's ideal tuning. And playing around with the graph i found out that the JVC FDX1 is very close to Crinacle's (and consequently mine) ideal tuning and is a lot cheaper than the Fearless Dawn which Crinacle tuned to his ideal. 

So i bought it, not one week after i bought the ZSX

Maybe i was right to take a hiatus.


----------



## DynamicEars

d73b3e said:


> Do your Z1R and Z1L produce hissing noise (or high noise floor) when not playing audio?
> 
> They also just release the CCA CA16 with the form factor quite similar to the Z1RL at $60 for 16 drivers T__T



Sadly yes, was going to mention that but i forgot. Hissing is very noticeable on quiet tracks or when music ends. Like the TRN BT20S.
I think that is the side effect of boosting gain to get very loud volume level. And yes my Z1R and Z1L is very loudd on volume. My Haylou GT1 Plus cant satisfy me at 100% volume. But on Z1, they reach louder volume at around 65%. And i cant take more past 85%. 70-80% on Z1 is my comfort volume level and i like loud volume


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 1, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> So, yesterday i just received my dream IEM the Z1R !!
> 
> 
> Sadly its not the Sony IER Z1R and it comes with Z1L as well..
> ...



My1more ANC with Dual Hybrid Drivers can last around 5 hours with ANC on. Not to mention Nuarl N6 Pro which has excellent sound quality can last around 10 hours or so. KZ really need to upped their battery life game in TWS because their newest model can only do 3 hours. This is 2020, if they came out in 2017 then it is understandable, but right now the standard is 5 hours+ minimum. What I think KZ is doing is that, they are in the testing phase right now where they just release a bunch of TWS.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> My1more ANC with Dual Hybrid Drivers can last around 5 hours with ANC on. Not to mention Nuarl N6 Pro which has excellent sound quality can last around 10 hours or so. KZ really need to upped their battery life game in TWS because their newest model can only do 3 hours. This is 2020, if they came out in 2017 then it is understandable, but right now the standard is 5 hours+ minimum. What I think KZ is doing is that, they are in the testing phase right now where they just release a bunch of TWS.



Yeah thats what im thinking too, for TWS standard they need to up their batt life of course. But this latest TWS Z1 really have something with their 10mm drivers. They got impact, texture, depth and rumble with very decent speed. Think of zs10 pro / zsx bass but with more quantity and impact, i think the DD on Z1 is slightly better than DD in their hybrids.
Gonna write my impressions later.


----------



## gr33nhorn

DynamicEars said:


> Its the same eartips with Z1.. Currently they dont sell them separately unfortunately.


Hey, I found them (or something that looks a lot like them) 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-S...Replacement-Memory-Foam-Ear-Tips/402260885574 

On another note though - Their wireless performance is fairly underwhelming 
I start getting dropouts if i keep the phone on the left side of my body. There are intermittent hiccups once the battery goes below 70%. I tried using it during a zoom work call, and the audio kept dropping out and i had to switch to laptop audio and back to get them to work again. 

Phone connections are fairly stable and lasted fine for VOIP and phone calls.


----------



## raccoon city

I'm tempted by the KZ ZSX...
I don't really need it, but the price has dropped since the last time I checked.
If it drops any more, I think I have to buy it!
I think I'll probably wait for the next decent AliExpress promotion.


----------



## IEManiac

raccoon city said:


> I'm tempted by the KZ ZSX...
> I don't really need it, but the price has dropped since the last time I checked.
> If it drops any more, I think I have to buy it!
> I think I'll probably wait for the next decent AliExpress promotion.


How much?


----------



## raccoon city

It was a while ago, but it was over $45.
Now it's under $40.
With a good promotion, maybe I can find it closer to $30


----------



## baskingshark

raccoon city said:


> I'm tempted by the KZ ZSX...
> I don't really need it, but the price has dropped since the last time I checked.
> If it drops any more, I think I have to buy it!
> I think I'll probably wait for the next decent AliExpress promotion.



U might wanna wait for reviews on the newly launched CCA CA16 (sister company of KZ), also a multi driver monster. Just came out, so reviews might filter out by the time the summer aliexpress sale (mid june) comes.

But ZSX might be cheaper as generally newly launched gears are pricier.


----------



## courierdriver

raccoon city said:


> I'm tempted by the KZ ZSX...
> I don't really need it, but the price has dropped since the last time I checked.
> If it drops any more, I think I have to buy it!
> I think I'll probably wait for the next decent AliExpress promotion.


Same here. Don't really need it, and I love my ZS10 PRO to death; but it's very tempting based on all the great comments and reviews. Aliexpress will have their "Mid year sale" coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Last year, I bought a second set of ZS10 PRO's and 2 sets of JCally cables (one set 3.5 unbalanced, another in 2.5 balanced) to give as a gift to someone for Christmas. I paid $40 CDN for the ZS10 PRO and $35 CDN for the 2 cables. ZSX is around $48 CDN now. Amazon.ca has them for $20 more, but with faster shipping. Problem is; I'm still waiting for the Urbanfun ISSO14 (which I ordered in March, during the Aliexpress birthday sale, and still waiting to get), and it goes against my personal mantra to buy something new; without having had a chance to evaluate/like/listen to for an extended period of time, something that I previously bought and have had a chance to spend time with.

The Urbanfun ISSO14 is the first iem/purchase from Aliexpress that has ever taken so long to reach me. I've always had great success and have been met with reasonable expectations for delivery. Anything I ever ordered arrived within 2.5-3 weeks, prior to the pandemic. Nowadays, it takes much longer and tracking info is random. As much as I want to save money by buying from Aliexpress, I don't trust them as much as I used to, for timely shipping. I think I'd be better off just chomping the extra $20, and buying from Amazon Prime account. Still...I wanna hear those ISSO14 before I drop anymore $ on another new set.


----------



## d73b3e (Jun 2, 2020)

raccoon city said:


> I'm tempted by the KZ ZSX...
> I don't really need it, but the price has dropped since the last time I checked.
> If it drops any more, I think I have to buy it!
> I think I'll probably wait for the next decent AliExpress promotion.





raccoon city said:


> It was a while ago, but it was over $45.
> Now it's under $40.
> With a good promotion, maybe I can find it closer to $30


https://www.headconcert.com/product-page/kz-zsx-1, decent quality and fast shipping to CONUS...


----------



## SiggyFraud

raccoon city said:


> It was a while ago, but it was over $45.
> Now it's under $40.
> With a good promotion, maybe I can find it closer to $30


Got mine for exactly $30,19 during the last sale. Really happy with it, especially considering it was my first KZ since the ZSN (except for a spare ED9). It was too good a deal and I just felt curious.


----------



## DynamicEars

gr33nhorn said:


> Hey, I found them (or something that looks a lot like them)
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Earphone-S...Replacement-Memory-Foam-Ear-Tips/402260885574
> 
> On another note though - Their wireless performance is fairly underwhelming
> ...



Right mine also have occasionally audio hiccups sometimes if battery on 60% or below, like a bug, but then after you plug into thr case and take out they are back to normal again. Still they need to fix it.
Their BT tech last time is infamous because connection drop out, same with their BT adapters, but the TWS are much improved over the old KZ BT adapter. No connection dropout unless blocked by wall (over different rooms). On open space they can reach until 8-9m without any problem.

Will write my impressions soon. Very good capable driver but not so for the tuning, i edit my first impressions they are v shaped IEM lile V90, very bassy, overwhelming bass for me. But luckily i use them with wavelet, an EQ app and works great.



courierdriver said:


> Same here. Don't really need it, and I love my ZS10 PRO to death; but it's very tempting based on all the great comments and reviews. Aliexpress will have their "Mid year sale" coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Last year, I bought a second set of ZS10 PRO's and 2 sets of JCally cables (one set 3.5 unbalanced, another in 2.5 balanced) to give as a gift to someone for Christmas. I paid $40 CDN for the ZS10 PRO and $35 CDN for the 2 cables. ZSX is around $48 CDN now. Amazon.ca has them for $20 more, but with faster shipping. Problem is; I'm still waiting for the Urbanfun ISSO14 (which I ordered in March, during the Aliexpress birthday sale, and still waiting to get), and it goes against my personal mantra to buy something new; without having had a chance to evaluate/like/listen to for an extended period of time, something that I previously bought and have had a chance to spend time with.
> 
> The Urbanfun ISSO14 is the first iem/purchase from Aliexpress that has ever taken so long to reach me. I've always had great success and have been met with reasonable expectations for delivery. Anything I ever ordered arrived within 2.5-3 weeks, prior to the pandemic. Nowadays, it takes much longer and tracking info is random. As much as I want to save money by buying from Aliexpress, I don't trust them as much as I used to, for timely shipping. I think I'd be better off just chomping the extra $20, and buying from Amazon Prime account. Still...I wanna hear those ISSO14 before I drop anymore $ on another new set.



Dont hesitate to get ZSX. I know a lot of ZS10 Pro owners are loving theirs, even me. But with ZSX a lot of improvements over Zs10 pro, particularly timbre and smoothness. More mature sound, better technicalities, same bass quality, maybe just the fit with larger shells, but it is really personal. I would call ZSX is ZS10 Pro Final, really it is like perfection of ZS10 Pro.


----------



## Unolord

courierdriver said:


> Same here. Don't really need it, and I love my ZS10 PRO to death; but it's very tempting based on all the great comments and reviews. Aliexpress will have their "Mid year sale" coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Last year, I bought a second set of ZS10 PRO's and 2 sets of JCally cables (one set 3.5 unbalanced, another in 2.5 balanced) to give as a gift to someone for Christmas. I paid $40 CDN for the ZS10 PRO and $35 CDN for the 2 cables. ZSX is around $48 CDN now. Amazon.ca has them for $20 more, but with faster shipping. Problem is; I'm still waiting for the Urbanfun ISSO14 (which I ordered in March, during the Aliexpress birthday sale, and still waiting to get), and it goes against my personal mantra to buy something new; without having had a chance to evaluate/like/listen to for an extended period of time, something that I previously bought and have had a chance to spend time with.
> 
> The Urbanfun ISSO14 is the first iem/purchase from Aliexpress that has ever taken so long to reach me. I've always had great success and have been met with reasonable expectations for delivery. Anything I ever ordered arrived within 2.5-3 weeks, prior to the pandemic. Nowadays, it takes much longer and tracking info is random. As much as I want to save money by buying from Aliexpress, I don't trust them as much as I used to, for timely shipping. I think I'd be better off just chomping the extra $20, and buying from Amazon Prime account. Still...I wanna hear those ISSO14 before I drop anymore $ on another new set.



I also have the  ZS10 Pro and decided to grab the ZSX from Aliexpress on April 30th. At the time Amazon CA had the ZSX as a delayed delivery item with a price increase to $68. It's now back to the normal Prime delivery and there's another seller (K Z) listing it for $63 with Prime as well. At the time Aliexpress seemed the better option with a much lower price and free shipping.

No clue when my Aliexpress delivery - along with 3 separate cable orders a week prior - will show up. The tracking is all over the place for all 4 items.

My KZ S2's from Indiegogo which were shipped on May 21 arrived in Canada on May 27th before vanishing into a black hole. So similar situation there as well.


----------



## xtremesystems

are zsx competitive to lz a6 mini?


----------



## axborn

For the KZ Z1, when you're using only one earphone is it true mono (both channels merged) or only one of the stereo channels? Is it the same for other TWSs?


----------



## courierdriver

DynamicEars said:


> Right mine also have occasionally audio hiccups sometimes if battery on 60% or below, like a bug, but then after you plug into thr case and take out they are back to normal again. Still they need to fix it.
> Their BT tech last time is infamous because connection drop out, same with their BT adapters, but the TWS are much improved over the old KZ BT adapter. No connection dropout unless blocked by wall (over different rooms). On open space they can reach until 8-9m without any problem.
> 
> Will write my impressions soon. Very good capable driver but not so for the tuning, i edit my first impressions they are v shaped IEM lile V90, very bassy, overwhelming bass for me. But luckily i use them with wavelet, an EQ app and works great.
> ...


ZSX is in my Ali cart and also in my Amazon cart. Hard to justify this spending, but I definitely want them. Thanks for the rec!


----------



## Mouseman

courierdriver said:


> ZSX is in my Ali cart and also in my Amazon cart. Hard to justify this spending, but I definitely want them. Thanks for the rec!


Just do it!  They are fantastic, and I think I listen to them more than anything else I have. I was fishing around in my collection yesterday and listened to a couple of older models (a few Fiio pairs, a Dunu and some other units that I used to love) and then switched back to the ZSX. Absolutely no contest.


----------



## axhng

axborn said:


> For the KZ Z1, when you're using only one earphone is it true mono (both channels merged) or only one of the stereo channels? Is it the same for other TWSs?



Just tested with Z1, it merges the channel when only one side is being used. Tested using this track Dramaturgy by EVE. When 1 side is in case, both channels are played through the remaining side. Haven't tried other TWS since i don't use them in mono mode at all, but i'm guessing most of them are like that?


----------



## peskypesky

courierdriver said:


> The Urbanfun ISSO14 is the first iem/purchase from Aliexpress that has ever taken so long to reach me. I've always had great success and have been met with reasonable expectations for delivery. Anything I ever ordered arrived within 2.5-3 weeks, prior to the pandemic. Nowadays, it takes much longer and tracking info is random. As much as I want to save money by buying from Aliexpress, I don't trust them as much as I used to, for timely shipping. I think I'd be better off just chomping the extra $20, and buying from Amazon Prime account. Still...I wanna hear those ISSO14 before I drop anymore $ on another new set.


yes, my previous orders from AliExpress all arrived in a pretty timely manner.

That has not been the case since covid started. I will now be paying a little extra to order from North American sellers.


----------



## axborn

axhng said:


> Just tested with Z1, it merges the channel when only one side is being used. Tested using this track Dramaturgy by EVE. When 1 side is in case, both channels are played through the remaining side. Haven't tried other TWS since i don't use them in mono mode at all, but i'm guessing most of them are like that?


Super! I tend to use only one side quite frequently unless focused on work, so this is a godsend ...and double the battery capacity, even more if you count that the other one is charging.


----------



## Keller1

Sniped what i think might have been a pricing error at the banned seller's store and ordered the CA16 for $50.
Gonna post a review when i get them. I love my ZS10, but the harsh treble peaks and the weaksauce stability ( they fall out ) are making me look into upgrading.

Maybe gonna look into customs if the CA16 don't pan out.


----------



## seanwee

Keller1 said:


> Sniped what i think might have been a pricing error at the banned seller's store and ordered the CA16 for $50.
> Gonna post a review when i get them. I love my ZS10, but the harsh treble peaks and the weaksauce stability ( they fall out ) are making me look into upgrading.
> 
> Maybe gonna look into customs if the CA16 don't pan out.


Good customs are quite pricey though. Or are you talking about reshelling services?


----------



## Keller1

seanwee said:


> Good customs are quite pricey though. Or are you talking about reshelling services?


Audiosense is going to be releasing a custom t800 at some point, so i was looking at getting that one, but yeah, I don't see that as being cheap. Hopefully I get good-fitting KZs though since barring these issues they sound good enough for me at this point..

otherwise, haven't looked into reshelling at all. Is there anything you'd recommend?


----------



## seanwee

Keller1 said:


> Audiosense is going to be releasing a custom t800 at some point, so i was looking at getting that one, but yeah, I don't see that as being cheap. Hopefully I get good-fitting KZs though since barring these issues they sound good enough for me at this point..
> 
> otherwise, haven't looked into reshelling at all. Is there anything you'd recommend?


Not really, just that it's an option for those who hate the stock shells of their iems. It only works for conventional multi-ba/hybrid iems though. If the iem uses special materials/special acoustic chambers a reshell will significantly change the sound.


----------



## illumidata

xtremesystems said:


> are zsx competitive to lz a6 mini?


I have both and much prefer ZSX, much better tonality and bass extension, a6 mini has more detail/clarity, but that doesn’t make up for the spiky tuning. Both have good soundstage but different (ZSX has staging in all 3 dimensions - uniquely at this price point in my collection, a6m has better width but it’s 2d. I also prefer the ZSX for fit and isolation.


----------



## nraymond

illumidata said:


> I have both and much prefer ZSX, much better tonality and bass extension, a6 mini has more detail/clarity, but that doesn’t make up for the spiky tuning. Both have good soundstage but different (ZSX has staging in all 3 dimensions - uniquely at this price point in my collection, a6m has better width but it’s 2d. I also prefer the ZSX for fit and isolation.



What eartips are you using on the A6 Mini? (The stock tips are surprisingly mediocre, so I'm using the Periodic Audio Hydrogen tips.)


----------



## illumidata

nraymond said:


> What eartips are you using on the A6 Mini? (The stock tips are surprisingly mediocre, so I'm using the Periodic Audio Hydrogen tips.)


I’ve tried AZLA short and long, spiral dots, spinfit cp145 (best fit but I can’t get a proper seal with them), my ISN tips...I may go back to them at some point but they just didn’t suit my tastes (though they bring out certain vocals very nicely). I know people love them but in a direct comparison I find the ZSX more cohesive, engaging and energetic - a little loose in the bass to start with but fixed with spiral dots and they can handle all genres.


----------



## xtremesystems

illumidata said:


> I have both and much prefer ZSX, much better tonality and bass extension, a6 mini has more detail/clarity, but that doesn’t make up for the spiky tuning. Both have good soundstage but different (ZSX has staging in all 3 dimensions - uniquely at this price point in my collection, a6m has better width but it’s 2d. I also prefer the ZSX for fit and isolation.


even with red filrer on a6m ,zsx's bass is better?


----------



## illumidata

xtremesystems said:


> even with red filrer on a6m ,zsx's bass is better?


The filters are a sticking plaster rather than a cure (and they’re prone to getting blocked with condensation, which is why I avoid designs with them now). They don’t fix my underlying problems with the tuning, unfortunately. Black were best, red rolled off the top end too much. 
Ask this question in the a6 thread you’ll get a different answer, I’m sure


----------



## DynamicEars

If I can chime in about ZSX vs A6 mini, ZSX is a complete package, that have minimal cons, just they are very good on their class segment. While A6 mini actually can be more mature, but the A6 mini suffer from a lot of things.
The bass i can say i prefer A6 mini, the texture, the speed, the tightness and matureness is different, but A6 mini bass is less in quantity so the ZSX bass is more impactful overall. but quality wise A6 mini have better bass in my opinion.  But as @illumidata said, the A6 mini have contrast balance between lower mids and upper mids. Lower mids are very recessed that made mids sounded thin and distanced, while upper mids too peaky, 2-4khz driller.
Soundstage wise, the A6 mini is slightly wider and more natural than ZSX, ZSX have "larger than life" effect that sounded like DTS effect if that better word to describe.
But if i have to choose overall, i would choose ZSX over A6 mini because of more better tuned overall, more balance without any major flaws.


----------



## trumpethead

courierdriver said:


> Same here. Don't really need it, and I love my ZS10 PRO to death; but it's very tempting based on all the great comments and reviews. Aliexpress will have their "Mid year sale" coming in the next 2-3 weeks. Last year, I bought a second set of ZS10 PRO's and 2 sets of JCally cables (one set 3.5 unbalanced, another in 2.5 balanced) to give as a gift to someone for Christmas. I paid $40 CDN for the ZS10 PRO and $35 CDN for the 2 cables. ZSX is around $48 CDN now. Amazon.ca has them for $20 more, but with faster shipping. Problem is; I'm still waiting for the Urbanfun ISSO14 (which I ordered in March, during the Aliexpress birthday sale, and still waiting to get), and it goes against my personal mantra to buy something new; without having had a chance to evaluate/like/listen to for an extended period of time, something that I previously bought and have had a chance to spend time with.
> 
> The Urbanfun ISSO14 is the first iem/purchase from Aliexpress that has ever taken so long to reach me. I've always had great success and have been met with reasonable expectations for delivery. Anything I ever ordered arrived within 2.5-3 weeks, prior to the pandemic. Nowadays, it takes much longer and tracking info is random. As much as I want to save money by buying from Aliexpress, I don't trust them as much as I used to, for timely shipping. I think I'd be better off just chomping the extra $20, and buying from Amazon Prime account. Still...I wanna hear those ISSO14 before I drop anymore $ on another new set.



Since my original order on 3/28 for the Urbanfun per the seller  two shipments have been returned to them... Makes me wonder if there ever really was stock.. They have issued me a refund... I said that I was going to refrain ordering from AE and stick to US sellers for now but that didn't happen.. Lol.. Still I am a little leery of ordering from AE after the Urbanfun experience but if I do I know that I just have to be patient... It will either show up or be refunded..... Eventually.....


----------



## SiggyFraud

Another TWS set from KZ. Yep, you guessed it - it's called Z3.



Spoiler: Source



https://twitter.com/lucky52143915/status/1269256879361802241?s=20


----------



## RikudouGoku

SiggyFraud said:


> Another TWS set from KZ. Yep, you guessed it - it's called Z3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are they putting out as many tws as fast as they did with their wired ones


----------



## SiggyFraud

RikudouGoku said:


> Are they putting out as many tws as fast as they did with their wired ones


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Tonymac136

I've got the S1 and Z1. I'll probably get the Z3 too, Apt-X would be nice though...


----------



## Mouseman

SiggyFraud said:


> Another TWS set from KZ. Yep, you guessed it - it's called Z3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep - just take my money already!


----------



## DynamicEars (Jun 6, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Another TWS set from KZ. Yep, you guessed it - it's called Z3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But Z1 was just released less than a month?? Damn KZ lol.. But the driver in Z1 is great, just they are very v shaped to me, luckily the wavelet app works wonderfully


Think its a DD+2BA config. Hopefully they solve the batt problem. And the hissing too!


----------



## Mouseman

I wish Wavelet would work on my R5, just so I could try it out. Unfortunately it doesn't.


----------



## DynamicEars

Mouseman said:


> I wish Wavelet would work on my R5, just so I could try it out. Unfortunately it doesn't.



it doesnt work on my DX160 too, the wavelet is requiring android 9.0 and above unfortunately, but they are a solid app. how about your phone since sound quality wont have benefit from proper DAP while using through bluetooth? unless your music collections are all on your R5. Wavelet is one of rarely app that equalize sound signature without dropping the sound quality, and dont required android to be rooted, its a magic


----------



## seanwee

DynamicEars said:


> it doesnt work on my DX160 too, the wavelet is requiring android 9.0 and above unfortunately, but they are a solid app. how about your phone since sound quality wont have benefit from proper DAP while using through bluetooth? unless your music collections are all on your R5. Wavelet is one of rarely app that equalize sound signature without dropping the sound quality, and dont required android to be rooted, its a magic


Very interesting app, going to try it out.

Speaking of daps, i was really close to getting a dx160 myself but decided to hold off till the next generation of mid-fi daps. The slow processors were the main reason i didnt upgrade.


----------



## tgx78

I am patiently waiting for Z20 hit the market with 9BA + 1DD each.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

tgx78 said:


> I am patiently waiting for Z20 hit the market with 9BA + 1DD each.


It feels a little like the razor blade arms race.  

https://www.cartoonstock.com/cartoonview.asp?catref=mbcn1332


----------



## brianforever

Latest Mfg date by far ..which I received today 20 May 2020 now comes with a thicker multi-coloured cable..microphonics issues with previous issues are totally gone with this one


----------



## brianforever

SiggyFraud said:


> Another TWS set from KZ. Yep, you guessed it - it's called Z3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@SiggyFraud Thanks for the info..but will hold out for the latest KZ Z2000 TWS coming soon


----------



## Unolord

Judging by some of the complaints on Indiegogo regarding issues with the Z2, KZ should prob look at their manufacturing quality control before unleashing yet another TWS.

My pair of Z2's arrived in Canada last week then fell into the Canada Post black hole of nothingness.

Speaking of which I have 4 Aliexpress orders I'm still waiting on and the shipping/tracking is just a mess. Ordered the ZSX and a TRN cable  on April 30th, a KBear cable on May 1 and DinPoo (YYoo) cable on May 18th. Of those 4 items only the DinPoo cable is showing as having arrived in Canada (June 7) ... All were Aliexpress Standard Shipping.


----------



## Thx1326

With any of these 2 pin IEM's, can you replace the stock cable with a better 2.5mm balanced cable?  Has anyone tried this?  Results?

Thanks


----------



## d73b3e

Thx1326 said:


> With any of these 2 pin IEM's, can you replace the stock cable with a better 2.5mm balanced cable?  Has anyone tried this?  Results?
> 
> Thanks


I tried the Tripowin 2.5mm cable and it works great for ZS10 Pro, ZSX, Blon bl03, FiiO FH1s.


----------



## Johnny Golden

Hey, I know this has been asked before but I don't really feel like leafing through a 3346 page thread to find what I want. Could someone please outline the differences between the KZ ZSX and CCA C12.

Thanks


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 9, 2020)

Johnny Golden said:


> Hey, I know this has been asked before but I don't really feel like leafing through a 3346 page thread to find what I want. Could someone please outline the differences between the KZ ZSX and CCA C12.
> 
> Thanks



To put it in two words, as a digest, "it exists" 

In few more words, the drivers of these KZ/CCA siblings are the same.

ZSX have a bit less midbass and the bass feels a bit tighter.

C12 have a bit more extended treble.

I personally prefer the treble of C12, the bass of ZSX, and ZSX overall.

ZSX fit is better (more secure, better seal) for me; the extra protruding part is only felt when wearing something on top.


----------



## Thx1326

I finally heard the ZSX... to me it was lacking in solid bass - just not natural and there was some "hissing" on some of the high end - such as high hats and snares.  Friends of mine said the C12's were more natural sounding with clear clean highs and good solid bass.  Now this is not a scientific review... just based on what I know so far.  I have a set of C12's on the way (Friday) along with an upgraded 2.5mm balanced cable.


----------



## Johnny Golden

Thx1326 said:


> I finally heard the ZSX... to me it was lacking in solid bass - just not natural and there was some "hissing" on some of the high end - such as high hats and snares.  Friends of mine said the C12's were more natural sounding with clear clean highs and good solid bass.  Now this is not a scientific review... just based on what I know so far.  I have a set of C12's on the way (Friday) along with an upgraded 2.5mm balanced cable.



Thanks, seems like C12 might be a bit better (I really dislike the zsx look but love the c12 look). Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the C12's when they arrive


----------



## seanwee

I debated for a while if i should post this as its not representative of how the iems will sound but admittedly i do like these kinds sound comparisons as a rough comparison of their presentation.



For iems its not as good but its awesome for comparing speakers especially if done right. Thats why i like DLXwillington's speaker comparisons, he records using a binaural mic.


----------



## onlyteagan

thinking of picking up either the AS10 or AS12 (always wanted to try a full BA IEM), will they be  meaningful upgrade/sidegrade to my current gear? the Final Audio E3000 driven by the Fiio M7/Zishan Z2 DAP.

I mostly listen to Anime OSTs, Rock tracks like Bon Jovi, and some EDM here and there (Avicii & Daft Punk)

previous KZ Experience (ZST,ZS3,ZSN)-- didn't really liked the ZSN, found it to be too bright and fatiguing, bass is good though; Listened to the ZS7 before, didn't really liked it either, but it's mostly because of the size of the shells.

any advice is appreciated, thanks!


----------



## RikudouGoku

onlyteagan said:


> thinking of picking up either the AS10 or AS12 (always wanted to try a full BA IEM), will they be  meaningful upgrade/sidegrade to my current gear? the Final Audio E3000 driven by the Fiio M7/Zishan Z2 DAP.
> 
> I mostly listen to Anime OSTs, Rock tracks like Bon Jovi, and some EDM here and there (Avicii & Daft Punk)
> 
> ...


I believe that the A10/AS12 is even brighter than the ZSN, so probably not a good choice for you.


----------



## onlyteagan

oh... okay then, thanks for the heads up, any other recommendations then? perhaps from other brands? or should I just go and ask on another thread?


----------



## PhonoPhi

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe that the A10/AS12 is even brighter than the ZSN, so probably not a good choice for you.


Oh, no!!
I have all 3.
AS10 and AS12 are the least treble-extended all-BAs of KZ and CCA, so they are definitely most fitting to those who prefer E3000.

They all-BAs are surely different: more resolution and "less natural" timbre, especially for AS12, where the treble is heavily damped.
The best bass to me - these two bass BAs beat a single Knowles to my taste.

AS10 were my first all BA and the reason why I collected all recent CCA and most KZ 

I do enjoy AS12 with treble filters removed (more treble than A10/Tripowin), but it is rather opposite to common tastes. What I am sure a nice potential of AS12 is in moding those treble filters (and treble in general) to individual tastes.

I will be happy to answer any specific questions.


----------



## RikudouGoku

E3000 (blue)
ZSN PRO (he doesnt have the ordinary ZSN but should be close) (purple)
AS10 (green)


----------



## RikudouGoku

@PhonoPhi I mean no disrespect here, but arent you a treble head? If that is the case then maybe @onlyteagan should take your recs with a grain of salt because they seem to treble sensitive.

I actually dont know if there is any cheap full ba iem that isnt bright and even "harsh". But if you can go up then maybe the Audiosense DT200 can suit you well. Tansio Mirai TSMR3 also looks like a good one.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> I actually dont know if there is any cheap full ba iem that isnt bright and even "harsh". But if you can go up then maybe the Audiosense DT200 can suit you well. Tansio Mirai TSMR3 also looks like a good one.



Hisenior B5+ is a 5 BA set that has treble roll off and is non fatiguing, about $70ish USD.

Audiosense DT200 yes is non fatiguing but more expensive at $150 USD. A few midfi all BA westones I used previously for stage monitoring were also pretty non fatiguing in the treble, though those were about $300 - 400 USD. I've not tried any pure BAs from KZ/CCA, so i think @PhonoPhi can advise better!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 11, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> E3000 (blue)
> ZSN PRO (he doesnt have the ordinary ZSN but should be close) (purple)
> AS10 (green)





RikudouGoku said:


> @PhonoPhi I mean no disrespect here, but arent you a treble head? If that is the case then maybe @onlyteagan should take your recs with a grain of salt because they seem to treble sensitive.
> 
> I actually dont know if there is any cheap full ba iem that isnt bright and even "harsh". But if you can go up then maybe the Audiosense DT200 can suit you well. Tansio Mirai TSMR3 also looks like a good one.


I also mean no disrespect but judging by the graphs and other people opinions may be significantly less instructive than direct experience.

I slowly developed my taste of treble coming from AS10, which I never heard people complaining of treble (rather than it is rolled off with preserving the resolution more or less).
My treble development also came with the violins in the house 

Again, AS12 in its stock form so heavily dampened in treble that it should suit most people in this regard.

You know that those graphs are single-frequency sweeps, right?

P. S. Yes, there are non-harsh BAs, you just cut the treble (you can always remove something but not add)


----------



## onlyteagan (Jun 11, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Oh, no!!
> I have all 3.
> AS10 and AS12 are the least treble-extended all-BAs of KZ and CCA, so they are definitely most fitting to those who prefer E3000.
> 
> ...




1)any difference in the detail retrieval between the AS10 and AS12? how's the soundstage for both of them? and their sound signature? since it's kinda hard to find impressions for the as10 and as12 (especially compared to one another-- so I'm really thankful for the treble comparison @PhonoPhi ), most reviews are out for the as16 -_-

2)The thing I really liked about the e3000s are their soundstage and warm signature. are there any members of the hybrid/BA lineup in KZ/CCA that will be similar/better in the soundstage and detail department?


----------



## purplesun (Jun 11, 2020)

onlyteagan said:


> thinking of picking up either the AS10 or AS12 (always wanted to try a full BA IEM)...
> I mostly listen to Anime OSTs, Rock tracks like Bon Jovi, and some EDM here and there (Avicii & Daft Punk)...
> didn't really liked the ZSN, found it to be too bright and fatiguing...



IMHO, AS10 adds it own sound colouration. I prefer AS10 when listening to pre-2k music productions or watching TV using bluetooth. It adds some richness that was not in the original material. For me, I think Bon Jovi should sound good on AS10. The AS12 has a more transparent presentation and more balanced across the FR, whereas AS10 can be a bit deaf at higher trebles (eg: cymbals & such). For treble reference, the A10 & ZSN's treble were too strong for my ears. I think AS10 has a fuller sounding bass, but neither IEMs has the deep atmospheric bass of a well-driven DDs.


----------



## SiggyFraud

PhonoPhi said:


> I also mean no disrespect but judging by the graphs and other people opinions may be significantly less instructive than direct experience.
> 
> I slowly developed my taste of treble coming from AS10, which I never heard people complaining of treble (rather than it is rolled off with preserving the resolution more or less).
> My treble development also came with the violins in the house
> ...


TRN BA5 is a great example of a clear sounding, yet non-fatiguing, all BA set. Been listening to it for a week now, and had absolutely no issues with harshness. And I'm not a treble head


----------



## PhonoPhi

onlyteagan said:


> 1)any difference in the detail retrieval between the AS10 and AS12? how's the soundstage for both of them? and their sound signature? since it's kinda hard to find impressions for the as10 and as12 (especially compared to one another-- so I'm really thankful for the treble comparison @PhonoPhi ), most reviews are out for the as16 -_-
> 
> 2)The thing I really liked about the e3000s are their soundstage and warm signature. are there any members of the hybrid/BA lineup in KZ/CCA that will be similar/better in the soundstage and detail department?


 Trying to answer briefly first of "the top of my head":
AS10 main strength is mids, the bass is nice and warmish and the treble is gently curtailed with very decent resolution preservation

The main strength of AS12 is the best BA bass (I have heard, both intensity and response), mids are OK. Treble cut off is too much for me, but it is fairly easy to bring back and to mod - ask Master Slater.
Compared to E3000, both BAs will be "wow" in resolution. How much you will like signature and timbre - depends. From KZ and CCA, those two are most fitting to try after E3000, in my opinion.
AS16 will be no-no 
C16 - may be

Soundstage perceprion is very subjective, as they say. For me C16 is where I notice it most, it us also very good for AS16 and AS12, but I am perfectly OK with a perception of a very compact stage of NX7pro, for instance, it is compensated by nice resolution for me.

E3000 have not left me with special soundstage impressions, but that what I will be happy to look back and compare tonight after work and will report back


----------



## Lolito

my blon bl-03 broke after 2 months only... what would be the KZ alternative, flat sounding, with a bit of bass up, no piercing highs please, no v shapes please. say 50$ max... got a sennheiser hd25 cans for on the go, but I would like to give chifi iem's a second and last chance... my sony's 40€ iems sound worse, are more expensive than blon, can't replace cable, but, they last much longer, and have a proper warranty no questions asked... they sound worse, but they didn't break... zs10 pro or zsx can be good options? thanks in advance for the help, appreciated.


----------



## Sebulr

Lolito said:


> my blon bl-03 broke after 2 months only... what would be the KZ alternative, flat sounding, with a bit of bass up, no piercing highs please, no v shapes please. say 50$ max... got a sennheiser hd25 cans for on the go, but I would like to give chifi iem's a second and last chance... my sony's 40€ iems sound worse, are more expensive than blon, can't replace cable, but, they last much longer, and have a proper warranty no questions asked... they sound worse, but they didn't break... zs10 pro or zsx can be good options? thanks in advance for the help, appreciated.



Er probably the zsr. They have a rather large shell however. Plenty of bass and a bit of air uptop. Lower treble is slightly more than the blon because of a BA in the nozzle. Zs10 pro has quite a bit more lower treble than both of those, but is very nice. It's my daily driver. The zsr is a bit more easy going because it has an 8khz dip, if you are treble sensitive.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 11, 2020)

onlyteagan said:


> 1)any difference in the detail retrieval between the AS10 and AS12? how's the soundstage for both of them? and their sound signature? since it's kinda hard to find impressions for the as10 and as12 (especially compared to one another-- so I'm really thankful for the treble comparison @PhonoPhi ), most reviews are out for the as16 -_-
> 
> 2)The thing I really liked about the e3000s are their soundstage and warm signature. are there any members of the hybrid/BA lineup in KZ/CCA that will be similar/better in the soundstage and detail department?



I was listening tonight, comparing these IEMs.

It made me appreciate E3000 and Final tips more. E3000 are really soothing warm, you can listen for hours if not days, and an impressive sound stage, a bit specific to for me due to its warmth, but nice.

One thing to note, E3000 required significantly higher volume settings to sound about the same - 27 vs. ~17 for AS10 and ~15 for AS12.

In detail retrieval AS12 are a bit more clear, definitely less grainy, but a bit more L-shaped. Again,  AS12 have the best BA bass on a budget to me; you need to get two good Knowles to beat it. AS10 feel more rich the mids, closer to E3000 in timbre (but different as BAs vs. DD).

Both AS12 and AS10 are more airy so the soundstage feeling is a bit different from E3000, but very good to me.

AS10 have a bit less of a sound stage compared AS12. AS10 are also more grainy, you will notice it immediately after smoothest E3000. I like this graininess for some strings.
AS10 are warmer to me, indeed it brings some colorarion. AS10 are also quite impedance-dependent. I run it today through IEMatch and it felt more sterile.
AS10 are more than two-year model. I love them back then and still return to them quite often.

AS12 are noticeably nicer made, as the latest of all-BA KZ.
If you ever find treble too much,  you can easily put some micropore tape on top of the mesh. If you ever wonder about more treble - you may start to play with the treble filters inside.

Finally, the tips. I usually use wide-bore ones, Spiral Dots and similar. When I put Final tips on AS10 and AS12, the bass became more pronounced, with more prominent nicer mid-bass.
Nice tips!
Vice versa, E3000 lost quite a bit of their warm charm with wide-bore tips.
So playing with the tips definitely helps


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 ... more grainy, ... I like this graininess for some strings. AS10 are warmer to me, indeed it brings some coloration. AS10 are more than two-year model. I love them back then and still return to them quite often.


Yah, it's like marmite, brussel sprouts or durian - you either hate it or can't live without it! 
Apologies to fans of the black, green or yellow gooey stuff!


----------



## onlyteagan

purplesun said:


> IMHO, AS10 adds it own sound colouration. I prefer AS10 when listening to pre-2k music productions or watching TV using bluetooth. It adds some richness that was not in the original material. For me, I think Bon Jovi should sound good on AS10. The AS12 has a more transparent presentation and more balanced across the FR, whereas AS10 can be a bit deaf at higher trebles (eg: cymbals & such). For treble reference, the A10 & ZSN's treble were too strong for my ears. I think AS10 has a fuller sounding bass, but neither IEMs has the deep atmospheric bass of a well-driven DDs.



Nice, the as10 seems interesting now, but is it possible to reduce the treble? maybe with foam mods?

@SiggyFraud 's TRN BA5 recommendation is also interesting, how's the soundstage of the BA5s?


----------



## onlyteagan

PhonoPhi said:


> I was listening tonight, comparing these IEMs.
> 
> It made me appreciate E3000 and Final tips more. E3000 are really soothing warm, you can listen for hours if not days, and an impressive sound stage, a bit specific to for me due to its warmth, but nice.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the amazing comparison!

any idea which of the as12/as10 will be more "organic" sounding for female soloists?

thanks again


----------



## purplesun

onlyteagan said:


> Nice, the as10 seems interesting now, but is it possible to reduce the treble? maybe with foam mods?


Cut the treble? Have never tried to reduce treble on AS10. I sometimes try to boost the treble instead, by using brighter DAPs. The AS10's upper treble is quite tame compared lots of other IEMs. It should be fine, as it is, if you are treble-sensitive.


----------



## PhonoPhi

onlyteagan said:


> Wow, thanks for the amazing comparison!
> 
> any idea which of the as12/as10 will be more "organic" sounding for female soloists?
> 
> thanks again


It was fun, comparing them and appreciating the strength of E3000 (I am less of a DD person, and more into treble than bass)

First, a bit of digression, you probably were asked (or thought or already did): Blon BL03 - to me it is the most organic signature and a good DD complement to E3000.

For female singers, not my primary listening area, I would say all 3 colour due to more overtones in female voice. E3000 do most naturally, AS10 closer (you may like or dislike graininess). In AS12 the treble is dampened, so the perception may vary, I found the sound a bit striangulated, some love it.

For the foam - absolutely, AS10 will be easier just to put the foam into nozzles, since their protective mesh is deep inside. I think, if you ever feel the need - you would be rather taming high mids, the treble is rolled off quite a bit.


----------



## Nimweth

SiggyFraud said:


> TRN BA5 is a great example of a clear sounding, yet non-fatiguing, all BA set. Been listening to it for a week now, and had absolutely no issues with harshness. And I'm not a treble head


Agreed. And don't forget the BA10, also a very good all BA set with excellent tonality and very nice bass.


----------



## onlyteagan

PhonoPhi said:


> It was fun, comparing them and appreciating the strength of E3000 (I am less of a DD person, and more into treble than bass)
> 
> First, a bit of digression, you probably were asked (or thought or already did): Blon BL03 - to me it is the most organic signature and a good DD complement to E3000.
> 
> ...




what do you know, i just ordered the BLON BL03 a few minutes before I read your post... the BLON was one of my other "wanted chifi" items, aside from the KZ BAs, after hearing all the opinions, I'll probably aim for the AS10 next, and see how I'll fare with the sound. 

regarding the BA10, @Nimweth , I don't think it'll fit in my ears well enough, but I gotta admit, I really like the Red-Gold Iron man color of the BA10 haha


----------



## Johnny Golden

Lolito said:


> my blon bl-03 broke after 2 months only... what would be the KZ alternative, flat sounding, with a bit of bass up, no piercing highs please, no v shapes please. say 50$ max... got a sennheiser hd25 cans for on the go, but I would like to give chifi iem's a second and last chance... my sony's 40€ iems sound worse, are more expensive than blon, can't replace cable, but, they last much longer, and have a proper warranty no questions asked... they sound worse, but they didn't break... zs10 pro or zsx can be good options? thanks in advance for the help, appreciated.



Sorry to hear about that. May I ask where you got your Bl-03's from. Most retailers do offer a warranty, for example Linsoul's is 1 year. What went wrong with them as well. A lot of people say the cheap included cable breaks causing people to think they are broken when they are not.

Pretty much all KZ's are v shaped however so are the Blon's. The difference in my opinion is that the Blon's have a slightly warmer sound with more bas than treble and most KZ's have a slightly brighter sound with more treble than bass. They can be quite similar though. 

In the KZ range my pick would be the ZS10 pro's (not normal ZS10's). These are closer to the Blon's. Alternatively, I have hear that the new IEM from KZ's sister company, the CCA CA16 is more neutral with a solid low end punch and apparently amazing midrange. You can get 10% off them from Linsoul at the moment.


----------



## purplesun (Jun 13, 2020)

onlyteagan said:


> what do you know, i just ordered the BLON BL03 a few minutes before I read your post... the BLON was one of my other "wanted chifi" items, aside from the KZ BAs, after hearing all the opinions, I'll probably aim for the AS10 next, and see how I'll fare with the sound.


If your ears can fit the Blon properly, and can drive it well - it's probably a side-grade or step-down to AS10, sound-wise. Only good reason left getting the AS10, would then be its very good sound isolation.


----------



## Johnny Golden

purplesun said:


> If your ears can fit the Blon properly, and can drive it well - it's probably a side-grade or step-down to AS10, sound-wise. Only good reason left getting the AS10, would then be its very good sound isolation.



What would you consider as the KZ step up from Blon Bl-03


----------



## purplesun (Jun 13, 2020)

Johnny Golden said:


> What would you consider as the KZ step up from Blon Bl-03


Can't answer you that as most of my KZ's are BAs only, whereas BL-03 is DD only. The CCA-C10 BA/DD hybrid is what I think sounds quite close to BL-03. It's little less of BL03's mid/bass presence and a bit shinier in the treble region. It's more v-shaped FR than BL-03. I think there's a few KZ IEMs that's sister product to CCA-C10. I don't have them though. Some one here will chime in, I am sure.

EDIT: Just went up a few post earlier and read your other post, I sort of overlapped with your advise as well.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Johnny Golden said:


> What would you consider as the KZ step up from Blon Bl-03


They are most likely a side grade and not upgrades. If you want better SQ then you will have to step up from the sub 50 usd price range.


----------



## onlyteagan

RikudouGoku said:


> They are most likely a side grade and not upgrades. If you want better SQ then you will have to step up from the sub 50 usd price range.



will the KZ AS16 be an upgrade then? or any other ChiFi brands? perhaps the TIN T series?


----------



## RikudouGoku

onlyteagan said:


> will the KZ AS16 be an upgrade then? or any other ChiFi brands? perhaps the TIN T series?


Do you want the same/similar sound signature? Or just want better Sound quality?

If you just want better sound quality then I have some recs.

LZ A6
Moondrop Blessing 2
Shuoer Tape (oratory1990 eq)
Audiosense DT200
Tin Hifi P1


----------



## onlyteagan

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you want the same/similar sound signature? Or just want better Sound quality?
> 
> If you just want better sound quality then I have some recs.
> 
> ...




thanks, I'll keep the p1 and the tape in mind, the rest are kinda way out of my budget or not available in my country ahaha...

regarding the Shouer Tape:
(not too sure on the 2.5mm jack, is it safe to convert it to 3.5mm?) just read this yesterday and got kinda spooked
https://www.moon-audio.com/balanced-adapters-caution


----------



## RikudouGoku

onlyteagan said:


> thanks, I'll keep the p1 and the tape in mind, the rest are kinda way out of my budget or not available in my country ahaha...
> 
> regarding the Shouer Tape:
> (not too sure on the 2.5mm jack, is it safe to convert it to 3.5mm?) just read this yesterday and got kinda spooked
> https://www.moon-audio.com/balanced-adapters-caution


yes it is safe. You get a 2,5mm balanced to 3,5mm SE converter in the package (it is included in later batches, not in my tape which I bought quite early).


----------



## r31ya (Jun 13, 2020)

onlyteagan said:


> thanks, I'll keep the p1 and the tape in mind, the rest are kinda way out of my budget or not available in my country ahaha...
> 
> regarding the Shouer Tape:
> (not too sure on the 2.5mm jack, is it safe to convert it to 3.5mm?) just read this yesterday and got kinda spooked
> https://www.moon-audio.com/balanced-adapters-caution



I would recommend, Moondrop Starfield which are a bit more affordable. (i'm currently saving for it, i kinda blew my saving to buy BTR-5 after my phone suddently unable to connect to my Dragonfly DAC)

I used to use KZ but i'm currently uses TFZ King-series which have much better details compared to KZs. Things like you can easily feel the bass texture unlike ZS10-pro which are punchy but a bit hollow compared to TFZ-King-series.
TFZ-king does have less seperation as it is single driver vs KZ-multi, but it didn't bother me much as their seperation is pretty good for single driver.


----------



## Lolito

Johnny Golden said:


> Sorry to hear about that. May I ask where you got your Bl-03's from. Most retailers do offer a warranty, for example Linsoul's is 1 year. What went wrong with them as well. A lot of people say the cheap included cable breaks causing people to think they are broken when they are not.
> 
> Pretty much all KZ's are v shaped however so are the Blon's. The difference in my opinion is that the Blon's have a slightly warmer sound with more bas than treble and most KZ's have a slightly brighter sound with more treble than bass. They can be quite similar though.
> 
> In the KZ range my pick would be the ZS10 pro's (not normal ZS10's). These are closer to the Blon's. Alternatively, I have hear that the new IEM from KZ's sister company, the CCA CA16 is more neutral with a solid low end punch and apparently amazing midrange. You can get 10% off them from Linsoul at the moment.



I bought mine from ebay, after ordering 2 times in aliexpress and receiving nothing, got my money back for those. Linsoul's is same price as aliexpress or ebay? it's not the cable, I already have 3 different cables for the blon, not a cable problem unfortunately.


----------



## Johnny Golden

Lolito said:


> I bought mine from ebay, after ordering 2 times in aliexpress and receiving nothing, got my money back for those. Linsoul's is same price as aliexpress or ebay? it's not the cable, I already have 3 different cables for the blon, not a cable problem unfortunately.



If you really do like the Blon's, using code 618 you get an extra 10% off the BL-03's from linsoul. That makes them only 24.30 with free shipping and with the 1 year warranty. I know a lot of people including myself have had no problems with the Bl-03. Since they are so cheap at the moment from the primary distributor, and you already have extra cables and accessories, this may be a better option.


----------



## Thx1326

This may be a dumb question???

With the detachable 2 pin connectors,  how does one determine the proper orientation of the pins?  There does not seem to be any type of indication as to + positive / - negative pin.  So how do you know if you have them connected in-phase or out of phase?

Are there any downloadable test files that you could copy to the player and then play back to determine if the pins are orientated correctly?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## baskingshark (Jun 13, 2020)

Thx1326 said:


> This may be a dumb question???
> 
> With the detachable 2 pin connectors,  how does one determine the proper orientation of the pins?  There does not seem to be any type of indication as to + positive / - negative pin.  So how do you know if you have them connected in-phase or out of phase?
> 
> ...



Hi friend, no question is dumb, we are all learning together in this audio journey!

Basically there's a red/blue dot on some of these 2 pin cables near the 2 pin area. As long as the dots face the same direction (both facing front or both facing back), you will not be out of phase in polarity. Some cables don't come with the dots unfortunately, but most have a earhook/cable guide, and that already hints at the orientation of the cable insertion (ie the earhook should face backwards when being worn).

Just to double check, u can use this link to see if u are out of phase (it is pretty obvious if so, music sounds weird and comes from behind the ears):


----------



## Slater

Relaxing on a Saturday night with the ZSN and a nice glass of Glenfiddich scotch. I forgot how good these sound for a measly $12!?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Relaxing on a Saturday night with the ZSN and a nice glass of Glenfiddich scotch. I forgot how good these sound for a measly $12!?


The purple are the charm, especially with these really nice carbon covers


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Relaxing on a Saturday night with the ZSN and a nice glass of Glenfiddich scotch. I forgot how good these sound for a measly $12!?


Doing the same...but with a few beers and the ZS10 PRO. Listening to this right now


----------



## courierdriver

Still can't believe how awesome the ZS10 PRO sound. I honestly have to force myself to rotate my iem collection, or else I would just constantly listen to these.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Doing the same...but with a few beers and the ZS10 PRO. Listening to this right now



Nice! I love me some ZS10 Pro goodness. It’s probably the KZ I grab the most often in addition to the ZS7.

I have been trying to make a conscious effort to include others in my regular rotation though, hence digging out the ZSN.

The biggest con to the ZSN is that cymbals don’t sound as natural as they do on dynamics (Blon etc).

I don’t want to call them “metallic”, because I think that term is a bit blown out of proportion on certain KZ models. A lot of budget hybrid earphones don’t reproduce cymbals via their BAs as naturally as dynamic-only earphones. It’s not just something unique to certain KZ models. Whether it’s something specific only to Bellsing 30095 I don’t know. They are certainly a favorite of KZs though. I think they buy them by the trainload!


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Nice! I love me some ZS10 Pro goodness. It’s probably the KZ I grab the most often in addition to the ZS7.
> 
> I have been trying to make a conscious effort to include others in my regular rotation though, hence digging out the ZSN.
> 
> ...


Yup...totally agree with you. I really dig a good DD also. Last 2 nights, I've had my TFZ NO.3 and Moondrop Kanas PRO in circulation and loving them both. But with different genres. That's the great thing about owning multiple types of earphones. You can enjoy a different sound signature every time you swap out.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Yup...totally agree with you. I really dig a good DD also. Last 2 nights, I've had my TFZ NO.3 and Moondrop Kanas PRO in circulation and loving them both. But with different genres. That's the great thing about owning multiple types of earphones. You can enjoy a different sound signature every time you swap out.



That’s why I love budget gear. I enjoy grabbing a random pair of earphones, and seeing how it pairs up with whatever album I’m in the mood for at any given time.

If I had a $2k set, I’d feel guilted into always using that set simply due to the sheer cost. Variety is the spice of life, right?

I totally get what you said though - about forcing yourself to rotate your collection, or else you’d constantly listen to one pair or another.

Normally it’s the abalone ZS10 Pro:



But lately it’s been these beautiful DD beasts:


Which sound like heaven on earth with:


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Relaxing on a Saturday night with the ZSN and a nice glass of Glenfiddich scotch. I forgot how good these sound for a measly $12!?



remember back then when the purple ZSN sounded better than the rest? lol..


----------



## Tonymac136

Right now the Z1 is my daily driver. Fantastic sound for a budget TWS.


----------



## Mkoll

I'm new to learning of this company and their price-performance ratio is appealing to me. I'm looking for IEMs that are good for jogging outside in windy conditions. My current IEMs have way too much wind noise. Are there any IEMs from KZ that would be good for this use? $0-100 is my budget.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Mkoll said:


> I'm new to learning of this company and their price-performance ratio is appealing to me. I'm looking for IEMs that are good for jogging outside in windy conditions. My current IEMs have way too much wind noise. Are there any IEMs from KZ that would be good for this use? $0-100 is my budget.


DUNU DM-480, one of if not the best isolating iem under 100 usd. Very good for a beater set because it is also very compact and durable.


----------



## purplesun (Jun 14, 2020)

Mkoll said:


> I'm new to learning of this company and their price-performance ratio is appealing to me. I'm looking for IEMs that are good for jogging outside in windy conditions. My current IEMs have way too much wind noise. Are there any IEMs from KZ that would be good for this use? $0-100 is my budget.


KZ's BA-only IEMs are the ones I use on air flights to reduce the cabin sound pressures. BAs-only will probably work to cut out wind noise as well, but you have to then get use to feet-strike thumps conducted through the body when jogging.


----------



## Thx1326 (Jun 19, 2020)

This weekend sort of ended up as the perfect storm.  I had time to do some serious listening and after receiving my new m11 and having time to burn it in along with the CCA C12 for 48 hours, a couple of friends allowed me to borrow their KZ IEM's so I could do some serious comparisons.  I ended up with a pair of ZSX, ZS10 Pro and AS12's.  These are all great sounding IEM's but after over 24 hours of listening I am putting together a long review and how I perceived them.  Since I am the owner of the CCA-C12's, I will probably post it on that forum.  Any of these 4 IEM's are tremendous value.  Hopefully, I can give some ideas and impressions based on my 40+ years in the audio industry.  I'll post a link once it is finished.

Good listening... Enjoy the music (not the equipment)


----------



## Thx1326

Johnny Golden said:


> Thanks, seems like C12 might be a bit better (I really dislike the zsx look but love the c12 look). Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the C12's when they arrive


 
My CCA's and M11 arrived early and after 48 hours of burn in.... I must say that these are among the best sounding "headphones" I have ever heard in 40 years of being in the audio industry.  This includes Stax Electrostats, AT Electrostats, AKG and Sennheiser Pro headsets.  There is nothing not to like and the music is just that... music!  Not a combination of drivers and frequency curves but music - the sum is greater than the value of the parts.  These things are amazing... and the value is incredible.  Do get a better cable... I chose the K-Bear Silver balanced 2.5mm cable.  It definitely lifts the music to another level and at the price, it is a NO BRAINER.  I am working on a full review now.


----------



## Slater

Thx1326 said:


> My CCA's and M11 arrived early and after 48 hours of burn in.... I must say that these are among the best sounding "headphones" I have ever heard in 40 years of being in the audio industry.



Which CCA?

The C12 from last year? The new CA12 just released? C16?


----------



## Mkoll

purplesun said:


> KZ's BA-only IEMs are the ones I use on air flights to reduce the cabin sound pressures. BAs-only will probably work to cut out wind noise as well, but you have to then get use to feet-strike thumps conducted through the body when jogging.


Why does BA-only reduce cabin sound pressure?


----------



## baskingshark

Mkoll said:


> Why does BA-only reduce cabin sound pressure?



The pure BA setups are usually unvented (in contrast to dynamic drivers which usually have vents), so they generally isolate better. Exceptions exist of course.


----------



## purplesun

Mkoll said:


> Why does BA-only reduce cabin sound pressure?


Yes, as per baskingshark's reply.
KZ's I use on flights are AS10, AS06 and AS12.
For running (ie: rough handling), the cheapest would be AS06. It's 3 BAs per ear. V-shaped FR. IMO, decent for pop & electronic genre.
And, of course, make sure you have a good seal with the ear tips.


----------



## IEManiac

Slater said:


> That’s why I love budget gear. I enjoy grabbing a random pair of earphones, and seeing how it pairs up with whatever album I’m in the mood for at any given time.
> 
> If I had a $2k set, I’d feel guilted into always using that set simply due to the sheer cost. Variety is the spice of life, right?
> 
> ...


Where did you get that Abalone plate?


----------



## Podster

Mkoll said:


> I'm new to learning of this company and their price-performance ratio is appealing to me. I'm looking for IEMs that are good for jogging outside in windy conditions. My current IEMs have way too much wind noise. Are there any IEMs from KZ that would be good for this use? $0-100 is my budget.



My fave from this brand and these types of activities would be


----------



## onlyteagan

Slater said:


> Relaxing on a Saturday night with the ZSN and a nice glass of Glenfiddich scotch. I forgot how good these sound for a measly $12!?



wow those carbon covers look dope, are they vinyl skins? or are they straight up shell replacements?


----------



## Slater

IEManiac said:


> Where did you get that Abalone plate?



I made it. I make exotic wood ones, carbon fiber, abalone, tortoise shell, etc. I’m also working on custom painted resin, like the Peacock Audio P1.


----------



## Slater

onlyteagan said:


> wow those carbon covers look dope, are they vinyl skins? or are they straight up shell replacements?



Thanks. It’s genuine carbon fiber. No vinyl.

It’s toxic to breathe the carbon fiber fist though, so a proper respirator mask and eye goggles is crucial.


----------



## Podster (Jun 15, 2020)

Heck while I'm in this thread I came across several of my KZ Darth Maul rigs 










Ooh even better





And not to be left out this is how my ZS4 are now, they are my Darth MaulsTook two pair to make one right (and left) one so deserved the cable porn


----------



## IEManiac

Slater said:


> I made it. I make exotic wood ones, carbon fiber, abalone, tortoise shell, etc. I’m also working on custom painted resin, like the Peacock Audio P1.


You're hard-core.


----------



## onlyteagan

r31ya said:


> I would recommend, Moondrop Starfield which are a bit more affordable. (i'm currently saving for it, i kinda blew my saving to buy BTR-5 after my phone suddently unable to connect to my Dragonfly DAC)
> 
> I used to use KZ but i'm currently uses TFZ King-series which have much better details compared to KZs. Things like you can easily feel the bass texture unlike ZS10-pro which are punchy but a bit hollow compared to TFZ-King-series.
> TFZ-king does have less seperation as it is single driver vs KZ-multi, but it didn't bother me much as their seperation is pretty good for single driver.



haha i just blew my savings too getting the Fiio M7 and my Final e3000s (thanks high exchange rates), heard a lot about the moondrop starfields, but how similar are they to the Galaxy Buds+ from Samsung? They have the same Harman Tuning curve right? I'm not so sure on the Moondrop, as I don't find myself particularly enjoying the galaxy bud's sound *that* much


----------



## onlyteagan

Slater said:


> I made it. I make exotic wood ones, carbon fiber, abalone, tortoise shell, etc. I’m also working on custom painted resin, like the Peacock Audio P1.



OHH, I just saw the Peacock Audio P1 and it looks so pretty.. can't wait to see the results on your custom resin haha


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> I made it. I make exotic wood ones, carbon fiber, abalone, tortoise shell, etc. I’m also working on custom painted resin, like the Peacock Audio P1.



My Brotha, you get anything close to the Peacock Mystery and my money will be on its way  Only issue I've read about is the treble being a little off and scattered at times but with your mad skillz you can do the same magic you did on the MH750's


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> My Brotha, you get anything close to the Peacock Mystery and my money will be on its way  Only issue I've read about is the treble being a little off and scattered at times but with your mad skillz you can do the same magic you did on the MH750's


@Slater has really got some mad skills. One of few guys on these forums that I got much respect for. He's a diy guy at heart. His abalone ZS10 PRO is totally drool worthy. And don't even get me started on how his teardown on several TRN cables in the cheap cable thread, helped expose a big problem with that aftermarket cable company. He is a god, imho. And a really nice guy to talk to also. Nuthin but respect!


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Heck while I'm in this thread I came across several of my KZ Darth Maul rigs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How about a rig with red BA10? That would be perfect!


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> How about a rig with red BA10? That would be perfect!



Sure but unfortunately I did not get the black and red BA10 for the Darth effect  Now if your a Iron Man fan these may fit the bill


----------



## peskypesky

Just pulled my KZ ZS5's out of the drawer yesterday...where they had been for several months...

They sounded as good as I remembered.


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> Just pulled my KZ ZS5's out of the drawer yesterday...where they had been for several months...
> 
> They sounded as good as I remembered.



v1? v2?


----------



## peskypesky

Slater said:


> v1? v2?


V1


----------



## Slater

peskypesky said:


> V1



Mmmmm, nice! Love the v1


----------



## paulwasabii

Tonymac136 said:


> Right now the Z1 is my daily driver. Fantastic sound for a budget TWS.



I have to agree with you on the Z1.  I tried the T1, S1, S1D, and the Z1 is the first that sounds like it was tuned by KZ.  With different tips, it really slams hard yet the mids and treble are strong enough to hang with the bass.  This week with the Aliexpress sale, the Z1 seems like bargain. The Z3 should be even more interesting.

I got the CA16 and Z1 in the same week so there is a lot of KZ sound to love between the two.


----------



## gourab1995

Did anyone get shocked by their KZ ZS7? I mean it literally. Current running through your ear. I know it can happen if the device isn't grounded properly, didn't expect it to reach through to the buds themselves!


----------



## activatorfly

Any links to reviews of KZ-Z1 ?


----------



## raccoon city

gourab1995 said:


> Did anyone get shocked by their KZ ZS7? I mean it literally. Current running through your ear. I know it can happen if the device isn't grounded properly, didn't expect it to reach through to the buds themselves!


I haven't used my ZS7 very much, but it's never literally shocked me.


----------



## Thx1326

Slater said:


> Which CCA?
> 
> The C12 from last year? The new CA12 just released? C16?



They are the CCA C12.  I have no info and can find no info on a "CA12" model.


----------



## Slater

Thx1326 said:


> They are the CCA C12.  I have no info and can find no info on a "CA12" model.



You’re right, there is no CA12. I was confused with CA16. Sorry for the confusion!


----------



## Aparker2005

My ca16s just arrived. Excited to try them out


----------



## Dave Drums

Aparker2005 said:


> My ca16s just arrived. Excited to try them out


Intrigued to hear your thoughts! Especially compared to kz + cca flagship zsx and c12


----------



## Aparker2005

So far these are easily the best of any KZ related iems I've had. They seem to have the incredible clarity and separation of the AS16 with absolutely perfect and deep bass. 

Listening to TSwifts latest album sounds incredible with these CCA16s. Listening on my Galaxy Note 9. I think they're absolutely worth the money. I love these way more than the ZS10-pros which were the last KZ I purchased.


----------



## Aparker2005

I'll also add these shells are the lightest of all the bunch I've had. These honestly sound better than my custom ultimate ears UE5 pros, and nearly fit as well. I really love the shape of these.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

Kz z1 has bad battery life which is 2 to 3 max hours. they don't recommend it anywhere because of that. Be cautious with these


----------



## activatorfly

Ders Olmaz said:


> Kz z1 has bad battery life which is 2 to 3 max hours. they don't recommend it anywhere because of that. Be cautious with these


True...however they do charge in the case...and the sound quality is very good!


----------



## moleface (Jun 23, 2020)

I figured I'd post this here rather than start a new thread. Apologies if this is the wrong place for troubleshooting.

So, I got a pair of ZSXs a few days ago after waiting two months for them to arrive from China.

For whatever reason, even with biflange tips, I can't get a full seal with these. The tips feel like they're just resting in my ear canals, and outside noise isn't blocked as profoundly as when i wear other IEMs. When I try to press any further, it just hurts and the tips don't go in any deeper.

I don't normally have trouble getting a seal with IEMs - I typically use ones with straight barrel designs and wedge then deep into my ears cable-up with standard silicone tips. There's always a suction effect when I pull them out.

It dawned on me that I typically wear my IEMs very deep. I mean, the body of my Zero Audio Carbo Tenores basically disappear in my ear with only the cable showing.

My question is, is it really even necessary to get that deep of a seal for IEMs to function properly? If I don't experience the suction effect and hear a pop when I remove them, does that mean I don't have a proper seal? Or is it sufficient for the ear canal to just be blocked, albeit not air-tight? Could it just be that I'm just used to the sort of deep fit that's only possible with straight barrel designs? Sorry for the newb question, but I have very little experience with larger-body IEM designs or balanced armatures.


----------



## Slater

moleface said:


> I figured I'd post this here rather than start a new thread. Apologies if this is the wrong place for troubleshooting.
> 
> So, I got a pair of ZSXs a few days ago after waiting two months for them to arrive from China.
> 
> ...



This might sound dumb, but are you sure you have the R and L earpiece in the correct ear?

Ive had KZs printed incorrect on the shell, and you said even with dual flange they don’t even fit deep enough which is highly unusual. If you have the R and L earpieces swapped, the nozzles will point at the wrong angle and will cause a really poor fit.

Just an idea...


----------



## baskingshark

moleface said:


> I figured I'd post this here rather than start a new thread. Apologies if this is the wrong place for troubleshooting.
> 
> So, I got a pair of ZSXs a few days ago after waiting two months for them to arrive from China.
> 
> ...



I don't have the ZSX, but in general, if u can hear the bass frequencies well and the IEM doesn't wobble or drop out if you walk about/turn your head, the fit should be okay.

The feeling of "air tightness" is quite dependent on what tips you use and the individual's ear anatomy, so it is quite hard to say whether u will have this experience. Depth of eartip insertion does affect comfort and even sound signature to some extent, so do explore with various size ear tips, various depths of insertion and even different tips (eg silicone, foam). Is this the first over ear IEM u are using?


----------



## moleface (Jun 23, 2020)

Slater said:


> This might sound dumb, but are you sure you have the R and L earpiece in the correct ear?
> 
> Ive had KZs printed incorrect on the shell, and you said even with dual flange they don’t even fit deep enough which is highly unusual. If you have the R and L earpieces swapped, the nozzles will point at the wrong angle and will cause a really poor fit.
> 
> Just an idea...



Nah, it doesn't sound dumb - after all, this is ChiFi.

I just checked, and they're printed correctly.

This is such a weird problem, and extremely disappointing after I spent two months excitedly watching my mailbox.

My ZST Pros fit fine, and the main difference is that they don't have that "hump" opposite the nozzle. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with it. Some aspect of their design is preventing deeper insertion.

I have my first pair of Spinfits arriving tomorrow. Hopefully that helps.

Or maybe I require XL silicon tips and never realized. I usually need to insert large tips in extremely deeply to get a seal. Maybe even larger tips would allow a seal at shallower insertion depth.


----------



## moleface

baskingshark said:


> I don't have the ZSX, but in general, if u can hear the bass frequencies well and the IEM doesn't wobble or drop out if you walk about/turn your head, the fit should be okay.
> 
> The feeling of "air tightness" is quite dependent on what tips you use and the individual's ear anatomy, so it is quite hard to say whether u will have this experience. Depth of eartip insertion does affect comfort and even sound signature to some extent, so do explore with various size ear tips, various depths of insertion and even different tips (eg silicone, foam). Is this the first over ear IEM u are using?



No, it's my second. I also have a pair of KZ ZSTs, which fit just fine. I think my ears just don't like the ZSXs housing design. Something about it prevents me from inserting them as deeply as I'd like.

The bass is there but sounds slightly "distant". I played an audio seal test, and bass sounds maybe 20% quieter than it should. 

I'm wondering if maybe I just got used to an insertion depth that isn't possible with larger IEM housing. Like I said, typically I use straight barrel designs that more or less disappear into my ear. 

It could be that for a shallower seal, I require even larger tips than I realized. I always use the large tips, and getting a seal from them always entails wedging the IEMs in extremely deep. Maybe I have huge freak ear canals and never realized.


----------



## PhonoPhi

moleface said:


> Nah, it doesn't sound dumb - after all, this is ChiFi.
> 
> I just checked, and they're printed correctly.
> 
> ...


XL (or one size larger) tips may help. Some Ls are larger (13.5-14 mm), for instance Spiral dots.

Such shallow large tips work very well for me - Blon  BL-03 was easy 

Also ZSX worked out nicely for me with larger tips (better in fit and seal than C12), which really surprised me.

So hopefully this strategy may have a very good chance to work for you.


----------



## Viber

Are there any sub 25$ TWS IEMS which sound as good as the ZSR or ZS6?  i'm talking about earphones capable of doing good bass while not burning my ears with honky mids in the 1K-5K Mids range\ Earphones capable of doing guitars and violins smoothly.


----------



## purplesun (Jun 23, 2020)

moleface said:


> It could be that for a shallower seal, I require even larger tips than I realized. I always use the large tips, and getting a seal from them always entails wedging the IEMs in extremely deep. Maybe I have huge freak ear canals and never realized.


Try cleaning the silicone tips and dampen the ear canals before inserting. That may, sometimes, be enough to get the silicone "sticking" to the ear walls. Also, larger ear tips can get soft towards the outer edge - at least for the ones that I get from China.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you want the same/similar sound signature? Or just want better Sound quality?
> 
> If you just want better sound quality then I have some recs.
> 
> ...


I'll add the ThieAudio L3.


----------



## RikudouGoku

rogthefrog said:


> I'll add the ThieAudio L3.


Could be good, but I havent heard it. Cant recommend something I havent heard.


----------



## moleface (Jun 23, 2020)

purplesun said:


> Try cleaning the silicone tips and dampen the ear canals before inserting. That may, sometimes, be enough to get the silicone "sticking" to the ear walls. Also, larger ear tips can get soft towards the outer edge - at least for the ones that I get from China.



Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I tried that and it helps, though I'm still not getting the usual "pop" and decrease in pressure when I take them out.

Come to think of it, I always wear my IEMs cord-up because cord-down usually prevents me from getting a seal. I suspect that I've been an XL tip size all along and never realized it. I've just been compensating by inserting all my IEMs deeper where my ear canal narrows.

Last night, I was also listening to some bass-heavy electronic music and experimenting with my equalizer to give the bass more presence. Shockingly, a 2db increase at 32hz and 1.5 on 60hz produced loud crackling on the right channel on a track with deep thumping bass.

If it's a QC issue, these came from China and I can't do anything about it. Stock bass is fine - it just feels kinda recessed because of the weak seal.


----------



## purplesun

moleface said:


> Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I tried that and it helps, though I'm still not getting the usual "pop" and decrease in pressure when I take them out.
> 
> Come to think of it, I always wear my IEMs cord-up because cord-down usually prevents me from getting a seal. I suspect that I've been an XL tip size all along and never realized it. I've just been compensating by inserting all my IEMs deeper where my ear canal narrows.


These are the ones I used on the Blon. Significantly larger than any tips I have ever used, and holds its shape well in use. I don't need to push them in all the way. Got them months ago; tried looking for the seller link but lost track of it, sorry.  @Slater may have recommended these to me. They came in a pack with several sizes.

Makes you wonder how humans with small ear canals can hear anything at all!


----------



## baskingshark

KZ apparently has released a new version of the ZST called the KZ ZST X.

$16 USD
On multiple stores on aliexpress now.
They claim the voice is shocking in expression? Does that mean harsh treble/upper mids LOL?












*"ZSTx 1BA+1DD hybrid  earphones, it is an upgraded version of ZST.
Using the  KZ latest dynamic drive "XUN" unit,professional-grade balanced armature, the sound transmission is clearer and fuller.
Break through the previous KZ style, upgrade the cable, and match the silver-plated cable to transmit sound more perfectly.
The appearance has been adjusted to show different styles.
Transparent cyan and purple, continue the classic purple, create transparent cyan, bring you a visual feast."*

1 BA + 1 DD
Impedance: 12Ω
Earphone sensitivity: 107dB/mW
Frequency range: 20-40000Hz
Pin Type: 0.75mm

So after months of radio silence for wired gear, wired KZs are coming out of the woodwork. Anyone wanna try the "shocking" sound?


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> KZ apparently has released a new version of the ZST called the KZ ZST X.
> 
> $16 USD
> On multiple stores on aliexpress now.
> ...




Wow finally they are implemented the new DD XUN that have been used on Z1.
That driver really gives moving air, literally. Just hoping they dont tuned the same way as Z1, its too V shaped with recessed mids, but marketing FR is the same with Z1. For Z1 with EQ fron Wavelet app sounded great now, im enjoying the air massage from the XUN turbo charger shocking sound. But im not happy with default tuning. Think of harsher TFZ no 3 with more prominent upper mids, especially 5-6khz peaks followed by 8khz extra boost.


----------



## raccoon city

baskingshark said:


> KZ apparently has released a new version of the ZST called the KZ ZST X.
> 
> $16 USD
> On multiple stores on aliexpress now.
> They claim the voice is shocking in expression? Does that mean harsh treble/upper mids LOL?


...and I just ordered the ZSX!
I hope the KZ ZST X doesn't have massive bass like the ZSX, otherwise I might have made a mistake.


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> Wow finally they are implemented the new DD XUN that have been used on Z1.
> That driver really gives moving air, literally. Just hoping they dont tuned the same way as Z1, its too V shaped with recessed mids, but marketing FR is the same with Z1. For Z1 with EQ fron Wavelet app sounded great now, im enjoying the air massage from the XUN turbo charger shocking sound. But im not happy with default tuning. Think of harsher TFZ no 3 with more prominent upper mids, especially 5-6khz peaks followed by 8khz extra boost.



Ya if their graph is legit, this ZST X looks quite basshead haha. I know what u mean about the TFZ No. 3, I found the upper mids quite harsh on it with female predominant vocals/horns/trumpets, and I think that's the limit for me (unless u do micropore mod or pair with warm sources).


----------



## DynamicEars

baskingshark said:


> Ya if their graph is legit, this ZST X looks quite basshead haha. I know what u mean about the TFZ No. 3, I found the upper mids quite harsh on it with female predominant vocals/horns/trumpets, and I think that's the limit for me (unless u do micropore mod or pair with warm sources).



And the default tuning of Z1 is more v shaped than no3, with more prominent upper mids!

Lucky the wavelet app is great for TWS, it recognizes the TWS set and save the EQ data individually according to your TWS set.


----------



## purplesun

Hi,
Need some user feedback on these KZ _*2.5mm TRRS L-angle plug with 0.75mm ends* balanced cable_.
Click here for Aliexpress page.
Doesn't need to have terrific performance as long as it doesn't mess up/change the sound too much.
This was the only L-angle 2.5mm plug  I could find for _*below US$20*_.
Any other recommendation that fits the bill would be appreciated.
TIA.


----------



## seanwee (Jun 24, 2020)

raccoon city said:


> ...and I just ordered the ZSX!
> I hope the KZ ZST X doesn't have massive bass like the ZSX, otherwise I might have made a mistake.


The KZ ZSX has just the right amount of bass to be fun sounding imo. I like the bass quantity. Could use more extension and rumble though. I prefer to have stronger subbass than midbass.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'm at a crossroads.

The ZSX is, quite literally, my favorite IEM of all time. However I'm having the wanderlust and feel like there's gotta be some upgrade from them but I've yet to figure out what.


----------



## seanwee

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm at a crossroads.
> 
> The ZSX is, quite literally, my favorite IEM of all time. However I'm having the wanderlust and feel like there's gotta be some upgrade from them but I've yet to figure out what.


Which direction do you want to go? 

From my perspective its bass is its weakest aspect. It's not controlled well enough so definition is lacking and it lacks extension as well and thus EQing had limited effect.

The midrange and treble on the other hand are frankly amazing for the price.


----------



## activatorfly

Here's my KZ-Z1 review:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-z1.24441/reviews


----------



## SomeGuyDude

seanwee said:


> Which direction do you want to go?
> 
> From my perspective its bass is its weakest aspect. It's not controlled well enough so definition is lacking and it lacks extension as well and thus EQing had limited effect.
> 
> The midrange and treble on the other hand are frankly amazing for the price.



Meanwhile I'd argue the bass is its strongest aspect. The treble is vastly improved from the murderous ZS6 at least, but lacking extension? My dude a sine sweep shows these things go down below 30Hz with authority. I think you might need new tips or work on your seal.


----------



## seanwee

SomeGuyDude said:


> Meanwhile I'd argue the bass is its strongest aspect. The treble is vastly improved from the murderous ZS6 at least, but lacking extension? My dude a sine sweep shows these things go down below 30Hz with authority. I think you might need new tips or work on your seal.


Perhaps i phrased it wrongly. In terms of absolutes the ZSX is still far from the best bass representation i've heard but the mids and highs are very close to the best iems i've heard. So while i have to nitpick to say the ZSX is less refined in the mids and highs compared to the best iems i've heard i can immediately say that there are iems with better bass.

To simplify it even further, assuming 10 is the best i've ever heard
Bass: 7
Mids: 9
Treble: 9


----------



## Slater

You guys are killing me with the ZSX talk! It’s one of the few KZs I don’t own. I’m trying to buy less gear, not more gear lol


----------



## seanwee

Slater said:


> You guys are killing me with the ZSX talk! It’s one of the few KZs I don’t own. I’m trying to buy less gear, not more gear lol


Relatable. Thats why i took a 9 month break from Head-fi. 

On the week i came back i already bought the ZSX and JVC FDX1


----------



## Slater (Jun 24, 2020)

seanwee said:


> Relatable. Thats why i took a 9 month break from Head-fi.
> 
> On the week i came back i already bought the ZSX and JVC FDX1



haha, I was nuts to think I could make it through the entire year 2020 without making a single audio purchase. Oh well, there’s always 2021. YOLO, right?


----------



## activatorfly

So what is the soundstage of ZSX like?....also can the "Bass: 7" be improved via EQ ??


----------



## seanwee

activatorfly said:


> So what is the soundstage of ZSX like?....also can the "Bass: 7" be improved via EQ ??


No. I tried but It just can't get it to sound right. It sounds too loose. 

Soundstage is normal in size. I find soundstage in iems to be more influenced by the tuning than anything with neutral typically sounding smaller while bassier sounds wider. The depth of the soundstage depends on the clarity. The fit can change your perception too, deeper fits feel smaller and shallow fits feel wider.


----------



## activatorfly (Jun 24, 2020)

seanwee said:


> No. I tried but It just can't get it to sound right. It sounds too loose.
> 
> Soundstage is normal in size. I find soundstage in iems to be more influenced by the tuning than anything with neutral typically sounding smaller while bassier sounds wider. The depth of the soundstage depends on the clarity. The fit can change your perception too, deeper fits feel smaller and shallow fits feel wider.


Thanks!...sounds like a deal-breaker to me...TRN-VX & Tri-i3 both have superb stage - deep & wide....plus the fit of TRN is excellent!


----------



## DynamicEars

activatorfly said:


> Thanks!...sounds like a deal-breaker to me...TRN-VX & Tri-i3 both have superb stage - deep & wide....plus the fit of TRN is excellent!


if only you take a peek on CCA thread that CA16 made VX like a toy (said the guy that owned Z1R, Legend X, IT04, IER M9, H40, FH7 etc.).. oopsiee!!!


----------



## seanwee

activatorfly said:


> Thanks!...sounds like a deal-breaker to me...TRN-VX & Tri-i3 both have superb stage - deep & wide....plus the fit of TRN is excellent!


Don't take my word for it. After listening to so many iems I've been desensitised to the soundstage as some are so wide and open feeling they don't even sound like iems.

I trust many other KZ ZSX can tell you more about it.


----------



## Doc-holliday

Ok I just literally got the KZ-ZS10 Pro this past week and already one of my favorites of all time.  Watched that youtube video where the dude said the ZSX sounds virtually the same in every aspect except for superior “micro detail” (more extended high end).  

As a big fan of the ZS10 pro.... Just tell me do I need to buy these too?


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Slater said:


> You guys are killing me with the ZSX talk! It’s one of the few KZs I don’t own. I’m trying to buy less gear, not more gear lol


It's worth owning.


----------



## activatorfly

DynamicEars said:


> if only you take a peek on CCA thread that CA16 made VX like a toy (said the guy that owned Z1R, Legend X, IT04, IER M9, H40, FH7 etc.).. oopsiee!!!


The VX fit also needs to be considered....Took a peek at the the CCA thread - maybe you should re-read it?..at no point does he demean VX, like you infer.
Porta.Fi - who posts very solid reviews states that it purely depends on which signature you prefer:


----------



## activatorfly

seanwee said:


> Don't take my word for it. After listening to so many iems I've been desensitised to the soundstage as some are so wide and open feeling they don't even sound like iems.
> 
> I trust many other KZ ZSX can tell you more about it.


Yes I agree soundstage is a very subjective phenomena. Think I'll bypass the ZSX & opt for: CCA CA16 instead - to make a direct comparison with TRN-VX.


----------



## DynamicEars

activatorfly said:


> The VX fit also needs to be considered....Took a peek at the the CCA thread - maybe you should re-read it?..at no point does he demean VX, like you infer.
> Porta.Fi - who posts very solid reviews states that it purely depends on which signature you prefer:




Chill i just try to poison you with abother IEM on this rabbit hole world.

Of course I know porta fi is @cleg here


----------



## activatorfly

DynamicEars said:


> Chill i just try to poison you with abother IEM on this rabbit hole world.
> 
> Of course I know porta fi is @cleg here


No worries - I usually manage to bypass rabbit-hole hype trains! haha!


----------



## Slater

Doc-holliday said:


> Ok I just literally got the KZ-ZS10 Pro this past week and already one of my favorites of all time.  Watched that youtube video where the dude said the ZSX sounds virtually the same in every aspect except for superior “micro detail” (more extended high end).
> 
> As a big fan of the ZS10 pro.... Just tell me do I need to buy these too?



That’s why I skipped the ZSX. I was so happy with the ZS10 Pro, I figured $40 for a minor improvement wasn’t worth it. It made more sense to wait for the successor to the ZSX.


----------



## Doc-holliday

Slater said:


> That’s why I skipped the ZSX. I was so happy with the ZS10 Pro, I figured $40 for a minor improvement wasn’t worth it. It made more sense to wait for the successor to the ZSX.



  ill do the same.    thanks for the confirmation of what i heard.


----------



## DynamicEars

For me, ZS10 Pro to ZSX is an upgrade, they change the drivers with that new DWEK BAs, results are better timbre and slightly less harsh. Tune wise, ZSX is a little bit more balance than ZS10 Pro, but with more real details and resolution, not faking from boosting upper mids to perceive more clarity and details. ZSX is like perfection of ZS10 Pro, except on shell fit for me. the timbre alone is already an upgrade. Low end parts merely the same


----------



## khighly

ZS10 Pro to ZSX is a worthy upgrade ^

Anyway, I got the KZ Z1's and I'm having a problem now where it seems like the KZ's are so good at transmit/receive that they're overloading while I have my phone close. Once I walk away from it, the connection is so much better. So we went from bad signal quality to now too good.

Pretty bass/mid bass heavy but pretty good sounding for TWS.


----------



## Unolord

khighly said:


> ZS10 Pro to ZSX is a worthy upgrade ^
> 
> Anyway, I got the KZ Z1's and I'm having a problem now where it seems like the KZ's are so good at transmit/receive that they're overloading while I have my phone close. Once I walk away from it, the connection is so much better. So we went from bad signal quality to now too good.
> 
> Pretty bass/mid bass heavy but pretty good sounding for TWS.



The KZ S2's which I received today have a similar connection issue with my Sony NW-A45 and Hidizs Ap80. Haven't tried it with my phone (Xiaomi Mi A3) yet.


----------



## hmscott (Jun 26, 2020)

Unolord said:


> The KZ S2's which I received today have a similar connection issue with my Sony NW-A45 and Hidizs Ap80. Haven't tried it with my phone (Xiaomi Mi A3) yet.


When I first bound my KZ S2 with my PC I had drop out's after a while, but removing the binding on the PC, resetting the KZ S2 by holding touch on the IEM's for 8 seconds to reset - with voice prompt notifying when it was done - it rebound to the PC and has been good since.

The audio is very nice, not as good as my ZSX or ZSN Pro, but still in the top of the TWS's in their price range.

The KZ S2's are still new for me, I received 2 pair of them as a perk along with the Comply Memory Foam tips which provide much better fit and bass than the stock tips that didn't make the sound very flattering.

The KZ S2's are on their 2nd charge, so they are still breaking in.


Slater said:


> You guys are killing me with the ZSX talk! It’s one of the few KZs I don’t own. I’m trying to buy less gear, not more gear lol





rogthefrog said:


> It's worth owning.


I've always enjoyed the KZ ZSX - even when only used on the FiiO BTR5 SE / Balanced, then BTR3k also very nice on both SE and Balanced.

I haven't tried the KZ ZSX on the FiiO M15 - too busy enjoying hard to drive headphones with "Over ear headphone" mode.

The real kicker came when I used the KZ ZSX on 4.4mm balanced on the Topping A90 / D90 MQA, the ZSX came alive - I was shocked by the sound difference - the Bass is so sweet without any negatives, and not overwhelming - completely solid and in place now, the ZSX sounds the most balanced on the A90 / D90 MQA.

It's been the same for other IEM's and headphones, but the ZSX was a surprise since it already sound so good to me - without much Bass before - but now it's really a great long term listen for me.  I'm so glad I bought ZSX and kept it.


----------



## Unolord

hmscott said:


> When I first bound my KZ S2 with my PC I had drop out's after a while, but removing the binding on the PC, resetting the KZ S2 by holding touch on the IEM's for 8 seconds to reset - with voice prompt notifying when it was done - it rebound to the PC and has been good since.
> 
> The audio is very nice, not as good as my ZSX or ZSN Pro, but still in the top of the TWS's in their price range.
> 
> ...



I had stopped using the KZ S2's at some point last night and moved on to my new CVJ CSAs. When I went back to the S2's I had constant drop outs that resolved after I reset them.

Earlier today I went for an hour walk and used the S2s with my phone and they were fine for about 45mins when the drops outs started again.  Prior to that I had used them with my Sony NW-A45 and had some weird latency issues that did not exist when I tried that DAP with my Sony MDRX950B's right after.

I like the SQ and the fit but the connectivity...


----------



## Doc-holliday

DynamicEars said:


> For me, ZS10 Pro to ZSX is an upgrade, they change the drivers with that new DWEK BAs, results are better timbre and slightly less harsh. Tune wise, ZSX is a little bit more balance than ZS10 Pro, but with more real details and resolution, not faking from boosting upper mids to perceive more clarity and details. ZSX is like perfection of ZS10 Pro, except on shell fit for me. the timbre alone is already an upgrade. Low end parts merely the same



I’m sure it is an upgrade.  

But someone answer me this.  I am thoroughly confused regarding these and if my damn ears are broken.  I have seen a lot of praise for the Zs10 and ZSX both from various quarters for sure but....  What I don’t get is on HERE if you look at threads that talk about relevant IEMs these are routinely left out of discussion or put at the bottom of lists (see the ”rank your IEM” thread).   I almost feel like I’m going crazy liking these so much when i see some of the comparisons. (i bought an es100 mk2 and feel like these pair nicely for my use). 

I had slimmed down my IEM collection to only two or three pairs and sadly later my favorites went missing somewhere between stints in Los Angeles, Barcelona Spain and Southern Florida.   

But I just got on here again after a long while needing to replace them and I was pretty shocked with these when I got the ZS10Pro. 

Sure I hear flaws that will undoubtedly lead me to a few more purchases, but am I alone in the feeling the brand doesn’t get the respect of other IEMs because they are “cheap”?  I don’t think I am.  

@DynamicEars you do have me leaning on trying the upgrade afterall but I‘m going to spend some more time on here reading how much has changed since the last time I frequented this site.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## PhonoPhi

HiFi is driven a lot by "reviewers".
I can imagine if a hypothetical IEM for $50 is really good, it leaves almost no room to design "the right curve" few kilodollar IEMs and leaves very little for vanity and bragging. Some "reviewers" even have their special "wink" for KZ...
(just my 0-cent unpaid unsolicited thoughts).


----------



## Slater

Unolord said:


> I had stopped using the KZ S2's at some point last night and moved on to my new CVJ CSAs. When I went back to the S2's I had constant drop outs that resolved after I reset them.
> 
> Earlier today I went for an hour walk and used the S2s with my phone and they were fine for about 45mins when the drops outs started again.  Prior to that I had used them with my Sony NW-A45 and had some weird latency issues that did not exist when I tried that DAP with my Sony MDRX950B's right after.
> 
> I like the SQ and the fit but the connectivity...



Sounds like KZ still has Bluetooth connectivity issues even after all these years.


----------



## Unolord

Slater said:


> Sounds like KZ still has Bluetooth connectivity issues even after all these years.



Very disappointing. Reminds of the various Anker/Aukey/Mpow BT buds that I tried out 3-5 years ago before settling on the Jaybird X2. Some of those cheap BT buds would drop connection if you lifted you arm too high... Last night I lifted a beer glass to take a sip and the connection on the S2 started to break up! My phone was sitting on the couch right next me...

Now Anker Soundcores are well liked and apparently have solid BT connection. 

I got the S2's off Indiegogo for working out and for sleeping from time to time. I can't do wired IEMs in bed.


----------



## Unolord

Slater said:


> Sounds like KZ still has Bluetooth connectivity issues even after all these years.


Yeah, and a decent amount of hiss too.


----------



## hmscott (Jun 26, 2020)

Unolord said:


> I had stopped using the KZ S2's at some point last night and moved on to my new CVJ CSAs. When I went back to the S2's I had constant drop outs that resolved after I reset them.
> 
> Earlier today I went for an hour walk and used the S2s with my phone and they were fine for about 45mins when the drops outs started again.  Prior to that I had used them with my Sony NW-A45 and had some weird latency issues that did not exist when I tried that DAP with my Sony MDRX950B's right after.
> 
> I like the SQ and the fit but the connectivity...


Yeah, the KZ S2's like "stability" in their BT connection.  Once you change the host BT device or change the binding with your existing device without resetting the KZ S2 it can be problematic.  The good news is that I went beyond their range with them on and came back into range and they reconnected without a fuss.  But, I'm still getting to know them - they aren't like the $150+ TWS's, but then I guess we can't expect them to be for $35 each 

They do sound good though, transparent and non-fatiguing sound and comfortable fit for watching youtube / movies for hours, and nice to listen to music.

If you can work through the burbles in connectivity moving between devices.  I have 2 pair, so maybe I'll dedicate one to my PC and one to my phone...


PhonoPhi said:


> HiFi is driven a lot by "reviewers".
> I can imagine if a hypothetical IEM for $50 is really good, it leaves almost no room to design "the right curve" few kilodollar IEMs and leaves very little for vanity and bragging. Some "reviewers" even have their special "wink" for KZ...
> (just my 0-cent unpaid unsolicited thoughts).


Yeah, KZ gets crap from the guys spending $100's-$1000's on IEM's - and I think they are missing out.

My ZSX, ZSN Pro, and AS16's sound great on good equipment, the better the source the better they perform - the best KZ has to offer have a long tail of usefulness as you grow your equipment over the years.

The BT TWS's are still in KZ's "development" phase though... it's clear by the BT burbles, but they aren't too bad - I enjoy the musical parts in between more.


----------



## hmscott (Jun 27, 2020)

Unolord said:


> Yeah, and a decent amount of hiss too.


I noticed the hiss when I first put the KZ S2's on, but now after hours of listening I don't notice it unless I am listening to albums recorded off of hissy tape or records - but then I hear that hiss with all of my IEM's and headphones.

*Update:* After listening to the first pair of KZ S2's for a few days I decided to break out the 2nd pair, and interestingly they started hissing like the first pair did initially, but after a while it goes away.  I've got 2 hours into the 2nd pair and the hissing is gone.  I just went back to conversational tracks that were hissing at first turn on of this pair of KZ S2's, and now the hissing isn't there.

The KZ S2's have their own special sound and are quite enjoyable to listen to music.  Here's a couple of items I've been listening too on the 2nd pair of KZ S2's over the last 2 hours...they have their own special detail and slam signature - straight out of the box.

Here's the hissy items first:

High voltage equipment damage

Why are power amplifiers different?

What's inside the boxes of expensive cables?

Some music + voice:

Solid State Vs Tube Sound (Z Review Demo Recording)

A great new album... Ultra HD
The Lemonade Stand by Tenille Townes on Amazon Music

I'm playing these through a Windows 10 PC with Edge Beta + Audio tweaks, Amazon Music HD (Ultra) app and the KZ S2's connected to the PC via BT - I hope at least Aptx, but I can't get Windows to divulge it's connection details...

The KZ ZSX's also shine when listening to Tenille Townes, although the KZ S2's really add their own special take on the playback - I prefer the S2's sound in many respects even with the ZSX's filling out the sound stage.


----------



## seanwee

Doc-holliday said:


> What I don’t get is on HERE if you look at threads that talk about relevant IEMs these are routinely left out of discussion or put at the bottom of lists (see the ”rank your IEM” thread).   I almost feel like I’m going crazy liking these so much when i see some of the comparisons. (i bought an es100 mk2 and feel like these pair nicely for my use).
> 
> Sure I hear flaws that will undoubtedly lead me to a few more purchases, but am I alone in the feeling the brand doesn’t get the respect of other IEMs because they are “cheap”?  I don’t think I am.





PhonoPhi said:


> HiFi is driven a lot by "reviewers".
> I can imagine if a hypothetical IEM for $50 is really good, it leaves almost no room to design "the right curve" few kilodollar IEMs and leaves very little for vanity and bragging. Some "reviewers" even have their special "wink" for KZ...
> (just my 0-cent unpaid unsolicited thoughts).


You wouldnt believe how high the KZ ZSX ranks among all the iems ive tried. V-shaped iems get a lot of hate because its what a lot of budget iems are tuned to, but suddenly when high end iem makers start making V-shaped iems they get so much love. It just doesnt make sense. 

Take Campfire Audio for example, ive heard all their iems except for the solaris and their special edition iems like the andromeda gold. In my opinion the closest one to the ZSX is the atlas. Sure it has slightly better bass but the mids and highs definitely lose compared to the ZSX. They arent as crisp, detailed or extended. The rest of the lineup are considerably worse sounding.

Ok maybe i dont like CA's tuning, fine, lets take a look a high end iem i actually like. The Sennheiser IE800. Sure the IE800 beats the ZSX in bass extension and control but treble wise the ZSX is more refined and the while the mids of the ZSX are richer and thicker its still as clear as the IE800 while conveying the song with more emotion. So its a win some lose some situation which considering the price gap shouldn't be happening.

And dont get me started on the "midrange" iems like Fiio's iem lineup (ive heard up to the FA7) which the ZSX just blows clear out of the water. Same goes for many less well tuned iems from other brands like Shure or Westone.

People need to wake up. KZ is delivering flagship level sound for bargain bin pricing. No matter how you argue the ZSX's tuning is right up there with the kilobuck iems. If KZ were to create a new brand, up the build quality and looks while keeping the same internals. I kid you not they could easily price an iem with ZSX sound for $1000 easy and people will scream at how good this iem is.

That could be an interesting experiment. Just to show how snobbish the upper echelon of Head-fi is. Release an iem thats supposedly high end and then reveal its actually a 50 buck iem. People need to learn to listen to the iems and not the price.


----------



## chinmie

seanwee said:


> You wouldnt believe how high the KZ ZSX ranks among all the iems ive tried. V-shaped iems get a lot of hate because its what a lot of budget iems are tuned to, but suddenly when high end iem makers start making V-shaped iems they get so much love. It just doesnt make sense.
> 
> Take Campfire Audio for example, ive heard all their iems except for the solaris and their special edition iems like the andromeda gold. In my opinion the closest one to the ZSX is the atlas. Sure it has slightly better bass but the mids and highs definitely lose compared to the ZSX. They arent as crisp, detailed or extended. The rest of the lineup are considerably worse sounding.
> 
> ...



haven't heard the ZSX, but i believe you. i put the ZS10 Pro also quite high in tuning and enjoyment ..and i have quite my share of earphones that I've listened


----------



## courierdriver

chinmie said:


> haven't heard the ZSX, but i believe you. i put the ZS10 Pro also quite high in tuning and enjoyment ..and i have quite my share of earphones that I've listened


Ditto. I've got a few iems in my collection now, and I honestly have to force myself to listen to them. KZ ZS10 PRO is my favourite. I've got a $1000+ set (Fearless Lancelot); and they are at the bottom of my list. ZS10 PRO is my fav.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

The ZSX really is nice. It's not the one I reach for when I'm feeling analytical, but I'll be darned if it doesn't make some of my favorite albums kick my butt through my eardrums.


----------



## Doc-holliday (Jun 27, 2020)

Ok Ill share one more thing here.

I found some nice and inexpensive tips I’m loving on my ZS10 pro’s.  I don’t see anyone talking about them anywhere thus the post.  They are the “LUDOS” brand tips for their own ludos brand headphones.

They fit the ZS10 perfectly and they are foam tips.  I find them to be perfect.  Much better for me than Comply’s offerings for my ears.  It has been 3 days so I can’t vouch for the durability but I got disappointed by Comply as a company so I quit using foam tips a very long time ago and was looking for something else.  Price wasn‘t an absolute requirement for me but it is a major plus obviously.

The texture on the Ludos is more what I remember the Shure Olives to feel like.  Its been a while though.

They are 4.9mm and fit the nozzles perfectly on the ZS10.  Not too tight like the stock tips and not too loose where they will easily pop off.

Big Pluses:

1.  They are only 8 bucks for TWELVE (six pairs.)
2.  They come in multi color package.  I remember doing a poll on here many years ago and had a dialoge going directly with Comply where I was trying to get them to release multicolored packages of tips for the ease of recognizing Left and Right on UIEMs that are not clearly marked (cmon, don’t lie you know every person on here has started to put the wrong one in the wrong ear on occasion before realizing you mixed them up).  Well these guys obviously read my thread and started a whole company on my idea..... lol just kidding.. but great minds think alike.
3.  They have tons of 5 star reviews on Amazon.

Big Minus:

They only come in one size.  Since i quit using comply a long time ago im going to give you my best guess.  The size is a bit smaller than the “medium” size of comply but not as small as their small.  I used to used medium comply tips and these are good for me with a fit that I don’t have to pre-squish but firm enough to say in.

Like i said the bore size is 4.9mm so obviously they will fit many IEM’s out there.  I believe thats close to the 500 line size in Comply if I recall correctly.

Sound:

They obviously have a subtle effect on the sound vs the silicone tips (little less sparkle, change in bass texture etc) which I find with all foam tips.  Don’t know if you will agree, its just what I hear.

Anyone looking for affordable foam tips for their KZ’s, you might want to take a look at them.  I found mine on amazon.



LUDOS foam tips on KZ-ZS10 Pro in Blue rocking the awesome beloved stock cable 🤪


----------



## seanwee (Jun 27, 2020)

I have made a v0.1 eq for the ZSX, its more subtle than my other eqs since the ZSX is already so close to perfect. This one mainly rebalances on the bass but also moves the vocals back a bit as i thought it was a touch too forward compared to the rest of the midrange. I've also tried to reduce the dryness of the vocals but its quite subtle and might not be noticeable depending on the song and how sensitive your hearing is.

You guys can give it a try. Any feedback is appreciated

32hz  : +2db
64hz  : +1db
125hz: - 2db
250hz:  -2db
500hz: +1db
1khz  : +1db
2khz  :  -2db
4khz  :   0db
8khz  : +1db
16khz:   0db

Edit: Comparing it to my EQed IT01 its still a bit lacking on the soundstage front so ill need to experiment with it a bit. Bass wise while the quantity is close it still doesnt feel as controlled, theres more decay on the ZSX.


----------



## Podster

Doc-holliday said:


> Ok Ill share one more thing here.
> 
> I found some nice and inexpensive tips I’m loving on my ZS10 pro’s.  I don’t see anyone talking about them anywhere thus the post.  They are the “LUDOS” brand tips for their own ludos brand headphones.
> 
> ...



Hey Doc, great post. So a little off your current topic but something that just dawned on me about a couple of my KZ's (I will say they can really shine on a great source but are so forgiving they can sound really good with mediocre DAP's) Just realized you can get these KZ's:





 for $76 or you can get
this whole rig for the same $76  





IMHO KZ gets negative press because people don't want to admit just how good they have gotten and how close they are to the big dollar boys. The ZS7's (I've never been shocked), ZSX's and BA-10 can hang with like iem's from other makers at many times their price


----------



## seanwee (Jun 28, 2020)

Podster said:


> Hey Doc, great post. So a little off your current topic but something that just dawned on me about a couple of my KZ's (I will say they can really shine on a great source but are so forgiving they can sound really good with mediocre DAP's) Just realized you can get these KZ's:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tried the Ba10 when I went to Shenzhen and thought it sounded just OK for its price. Nothing special. I remember thinking it was muddy sounding.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Hey Doc, great post. So a little off your current topic but something that just dawned on me about a couple of my KZ's (I will say they can really shine on a great source but are so forgiving they can sound really good with mediocre DAP's) Just realized you can get these KZ's:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I concur exactly! ZS7, ZSX and BA10 are my top 3 KZs. ZS10 Pro isn't far behind, mind you!


----------



## Podster (Jun 28, 2020)

seanwee said:


> I tried the Ba10 when I went to Shenzhen and thought it sounded just OK for its price. Nothing special. I remember thinking it was muddy sounding.



We do all hear things differently but to me the KZ BA-10 may be their clearest and most detailed iem to date  Not sure what unit you drove them with was but on my Opus #1 with Auvio tips and the Tripowin cable they sound better than my BGVP DM6's without a doubt (for my ears which may be closer to Shrek's but still hear pretty good) I've listened to rigs costing hundreds more than this one here:





Which in some respects can't even keep up and even I was 

Oh, another thing I forgot to mention was fit & seal, because of the shape many did not or could not get that great seal but my Mod for that if you will was to cut tip sleeve's off to extend the tips on them which allows them to sit in the ear comfortably and enough extension for an awesome seal at least 4 me


----------



## seanwee

Podster said:


> We do all hear things differently but to me the KZ BA-10 may be their clearest and most detailed iem to date  Not sure what unit you drove them with was but on my Opus #1 with Auvio tips and the Tripowin cable they sound better than my BGVP DM6's without a doubt (for my ears which may be closer to Shrek's but still hear pretty good) I've listened to rigs costing hundreds more than this one here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even compared to the ZSX? 

I was using my Cayin N5ii.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> We do all hear things differently but to me the KZ BA-10 may be their clearest and most detailed iem to date  Not sure what unit you drove them with was but on my Opus #1 with Auvio tips and the Tripowin cable they sound better than my BGVP DM6's without a doubt (for my ears which may be closer to Shrek's but still hear pretty good) I've listened to rigs costing hundreds more than this one here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, the BA10 with TRN 16 core cable manages to deliver clarity and detail without being too bright, unlike the CCA C16 or A10. Built like a tank too!


----------



## Podster

seanwee said:


> Even compared to the ZSX?
> 
> I was using my Cayin N5ii.



Granted you were on a nice DAP but as mentioned better cable, tips and tips extension for proper fit/seal are crucial IMO with the BA-10. I love my ZSX too but for my ears this is a very fun, bold and for sure Rock-N-Roll iem's  

Who also benefit from a cable upgrade! In this case the 16 Core KB Ear We won't even talk how sweet this two tone gray cable makes them look


----------



## Slater

Did anyone get the ZSTX yet? Any impressions?


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Did anyone get the ZSTX yet? Any impressions?



ZSTX


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> ZSTX



Yeah, it’s got that special XUN driver. And a cool new color shell!


----------



## raccoon city

Podster said:


> ZSTX





Slater said:


> Yeah, it’s got that special XUN driver. And a cool new color shell!


Not only that, but it's pretty cheap, too.


----------



## axhng

Slater said:


> Did anyone get the ZSTX yet? Any impressions?



Curious about this too since I thought the driver sounded pretty capable in the Z1. Not sure how that extra BA would affect it though so I'm holding out a little. Maybe it will help add more weight in the upper mids and treble region. But I'm also afraid that it will make it a bit too shouty and sibilant as well. The S2 for example was a bit sibilant sounding to me which I'm not a fan of. 

Also don't want to go through AliExpress since my last order took over 2 months to deliver, by then maybe we'll have a ZSTX Pro already. Lol. The usual local online shopping site I typically buy from (which has way faster and more consistent shipping) hasn't listed these yet.


----------



## Dave Drums

There's a lot of praise here for the ZSX! I so nearly bought them but instead picked up the CA12 as I feared the larger size might not fit as well as the smaller CA12 shell, keen to hear comparisons from people that own both CA12 and ZSX?


----------



## DynamicEars

The new XUN driver on Z1 is very capable, have good details (not great), wide soundstage if tuned well, very good tightness and the turbocharge XUN strength is the air push. They literally push some air to your ear canal, that you can feel it. Depend on you, you may like that air moving feeling or take it as disturbance.
But to be honest i will wait for the tuning, the Z1 is too v shaped for me, mids are recessed, sounded too far away and too much mid bass and sub bass and lower trebles a bit much too for higher volume.
The Z1 as a TWS have benefit because can use wavelet app, not saying the ZSTX cant be used through wavelet, but wavelet have memory for different TWS set as it recognizes the TWS name register and made different profile for each of them. And wavelet required android 9.0 and above and not so many DAPs are running android 9 currently. My ibasso DX160 is running Android 8.1


----------



## DynamicEars

Dave Drums said:


> There's a lot of praise here for the ZSX! I so nearly bought them but instead picked up the CA12 as I feared the larger size might not fit as well as the smaller CA12 shell, keen to hear comparisons from people that own both CA12 and ZSX?



A lot of comparisons between them on few pages behind, few months back. To sum up they are using identical drivers, and tuned similarly, just the C12 (there is no CA12 at the moment) tuned a little more intense om high mids, around 5-6 khz. Fit wise, a lot people prefer c12 over ZSX. I believe they both are great IEMs. Blindly purchase over 2 wont get you wrong anyway. Congrats!


----------



## seanwee

@IEMusic how would you compare the ZSX against the JVC FDX1?


----------



## Sylmar

Just got the S1D recently and I enjoy it on my train trips. I just wish they would make the charging case to have more room for having bigger eartips. It's a bit weird that you can't use their own Starline tips on them.


----------



## seanwee

Sylmar said:


> Just got the S1D recently and I enjoy it on my train trips. I just wish they would make the charging case to have more room for having bigger eartips. It's a bit weird that you can't use their own Starline tips on them.


A lot of TWS cases are like that. Only sony and aviot leave a generous amount of space for you to put your own tips. Granted, they are larger than most other TWS cases.


----------



## Sylmar

seanwee said:


> A lot of TWS cases are like that. Only sony and aviot leave a generous amount of space for you to put your own tips. Granted, they are larger than most other TWS cases.


I agree more have that problem. It's just kind of ironic their own brand of eartips won't fit.


----------



## IEMusic

seanwee said:


> @IEMusic how would you compare the ZSX against the JVC FDX1?


Hmmmm.  They are really quite different.  The JVC really has a neutral-ish tuning, whereas the ZSX is better balanced than a lot of prior KZ IEMs, but is still V-shaped.   Bass extension is very similar, with good sub bass on both, but there is a lot more bass amount on the ZSX.  Mids are clear and warmer, but a bit recessed in the ZSX.  The tonality of the FDX1 is cooler, and more analytical, but the mids are incredibly clean and accurate.  The FDX1 drivers deliver a ton of detail for a DD, and IMO are a little more detailed than the ZSX, while also having a much more natural DD sound (as opposed to BA timbre).  Treble is more extended on the ZSX, with the BAs.  The FDX1 has adequately extended treble IMO, unless you use the nozzles with a lot of damping, which decreases the treble along with the upper mids.   That is the main reason why I chose a different mod to dampen the upper mids on the FDX1.

There is not redundancy with the XSZ and FDX1, so owning both makes perfect sense.   The ZSX is more “fun” sounding, but the FDX1 is more natural sounding, and really excels with classical music, jazz, acoustic music.  
Hope this helps.


----------



## r31ya

These looks nice, anyone have heard from them?





i need a nice budget back-up IEM and the original ZST is a damn fine IEM, so hopefully these are proper upgrade from them


----------



## cirodts

a few days ago came the zs10pro, an exceptional sound much better than the tin t2.


----------



## cirodts

I bought the zs6 but they sounded bad, maybe it was another v2 version?


----------



## Slater

cirodts said:


> I bought the zs6 but they sounded bad, maybe it was another v2 version?



 Can you describe the sound, including what you didn’t like about them? The retuned version has much less treble, and is darker overall compared to the original ZS6.


----------



## cirodts

then it will certainly be v2, the sound was not very clear and detailed, I preferred the ed16.


----------



## Podster

r31ya said:


> These looks nice, anyone have heard from them?
> 
> 
> i need a nice budget back-up IEM and the original ZST is a damn fine IEM, so hopefully these are proper upgrade from them



 Looks like a new face plate on colorful shells, what is the upgrade? Just the XUN driver? As you know I'm not sensitive to the higher registries and still enjoy my original Carbon ZST's very much





@cirodts Ouch


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> Looks like a new face plate on colorful shells, what is the upgrade? Just the XUN driver? As you know I'm not sensitive to the higher registries and still enjoy my original Carbon ZST's very much
> 
> 
> 
> @cirodts Ouch



XUN dynamic driver, the newer 30095 BA that’s less sharp and sibilant than the old 30095, and a silver plated cable stock. And of course the new cyan color.

It also has a crossover, but I can’t remember if the ZST always had one. I seem to remember it didn’t. I will check tonight.


----------



## cirodts

I use the zs10pro with lg v20 ... a show.


----------



## zachmal

Podster said:


> Looks like a new face plate on colorful shells, what is the upgrade? Just the XUN driver? As you know I'm not sensitive to the higher registries and still enjoy my original Carbon ZST's very much
> 
> 
> 
> @cirodts Ouch



what are those pouches / bags ?

did you buy them on aliexpress ?

looks like I might need several of those - having the IEMs just lying around doesn't do them justice

thanks


----------



## Podster

zachmal said:


> what are those pouches / bags ?
> 
> did you buy them on aliexpress ?
> 
> ...


 
Yes, those are KZ canvas pouches less than $2 each on AliEx.


----------



## r31ya (Jun 29, 2020)

The set up,




New Dynamic?




the old Balanced



---
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...q49vvl&spm=a2g0o.store_home.slider_70171766.0


----------



## Slater

r31ya said:


> the old Balanced
> 
> -



All 30095 KZ uses are the new one. They switched over a while ago maybe 18 months ago).


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Shanling M5s ($400) + ISN S8 cable ($35) + KZ AS10 ($40)
- Great combo for Rock or Metal music
- Yeah, AS10 sounds great with silver cable and neutral source.


----------



## seanwee

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Shanling M5s ($400) + ISN S8 cable ($35) + KZ AS10 ($40)
> - Great combo for Rock or Metal music
> - Yeah, AS10 sounds great with silver cable and neutral source.


But the M5s is a relatively warm dap


----------



## Podster

seanwee said:


> But the M5s is a relatively warm dap



Well that cable is known for it's high especially treble extension so maybe the M5 is not quite as warm as some other cables Not to mention we all do hear them just a little differently


----------



## jeromeaparis

cirodts said:


> then it will certainly be v2, the sound was not very clear and detailed, I preferred the ed16.


I do agree, ED-16 shows more details, it is also named ZS7.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Podster said:


> Well that cable is known for it's high especially treble extension so maybe the M5 is not quite as warm as some other cables Not to mention we all do hear them just a little differently


Yes, this ISN S8 cable adds some treble and extension, similar to my other SPC cables, so I use them for IEMs with subbued top end or exaggerated mids. For AS10 and AS16


----------



## PhonoPhi

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Yes, this ISN S8 cable adds some treble and extension, similar to my other SPC cables, so I use them for IEMs with subbued top end or exaggerated mids. For AS10 and AS16


You probably meant AS12 not AS16


----------



## axhng

Finally saw a seller list the item on an online shipping site in SG (shopee) and went for it. It's from a somewhat unfamiliar seller though and price is lower than on AE, so hopefully it's legit. A little too impatient to wait for the usual sellers to list them. lol. Shopee shipping should be fairly quick since they have a sorting centre in china, and my orders there has been consistently quick to arrive (1-2 weeks) even over the past few months. AE shipping seems to have taken a hit (last order took over 2 months) so i'm avoiding buying anything there. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Viber (Jun 30, 2020)

*Important post for KZ's Bluetooth cable users:*

So a year ago i bought the BT cable to use with my ZSR\ZS6.  I think it was the 2nd or 3rd gen... the one with 8 hour battery life and Aptx\Qualcomm inside.
Ever since i got it i noticed the sound was over-driven to death, like someone raised the entirety of the EQ gain to red levels. Bass in particular was messy AF.

This problem was present on all music apps and KZs i own, BUT it would mostly go away when activating the EQ - even on FLAT so i let it slide for a while.

Today i got really pissed with it for some reason and i tried all kinds of weird solutions to remedy this issue.

The simple solution - using the remote AND your phone to turn the volume all the way down and then raising it USING THE REMOTE ONLY to desired level.   Night and day difference.

The sound is still not as good as plugging it via cable to a good source, but now im not forced to use EQ and the sound is improved regardless, my EQ settings are totally different now lol.

I dont know if you guys are already familiar with this problem.  Hope this helps someone.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> *Important post for KZ's Bluetooth cable users:*
> 
> So a year ago i bought the BT cable to use with my ZSR\ZS6.  I think it was the 2nd or 3rd gen... the one with 8 hour battery life and Aptx\Qualcomm inside.
> Ever since i got it i noticed the sound was over-driven to death, like someone raised the entirety of the EQ gain to red levels. Bass in particular was messy AF.
> ...



Very interesting. So they must have the gain cranked to the max or something?


----------



## Viber (Jun 30, 2020)

Slater said:


> Very interesting. So they must have the gain cranked to the max or something?



I think it's a conflict with the OS (Android, maybe apple too), because i noticed that sometimes the remote can only go down to 10% volume on the OS and be silent so i have to use the phone vol button to get it to 0%.

I think they have set the initial volume level to a certain value within the Firmware and that conflicts with Android's volume control.

It's KZ man, we need a "60 Minutes" documentary about their weirdness and bugs.
I'm kinda mad at myself for letting it slide for so long, such an obvious solution.


----------



## Viber

That remote is barely sensitive to EQ overall gain compared to other IEMs too, it's so weird.

I wanted to buy TRN BT20s TWS BT adapter to use with KZ, but the reviews are so inconsistent about QC... i think i'll settle for this BT cable until they'll come out with a new revision.


----------



## seanwee

Does anyone have any suggestions for good quality silver cables? 

I'm currently considering the TRN T3 or the Fiio LC Litz cable.


----------



## TheVortex

seanwee said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for good quality silver cables?
> 
> I'm currently considering the TRN T3 or the Fiio LC Litz cable.



My favourite budget cables are the TRN T2 cables or the copper coloured KZ / CCA cables


----------



## baskingshark

seanwee said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for good quality silver cables?
> 
> I'm currently considering the TRN T3 or the Fiio LC Litz cable.



I use the NiceHCK 8 and 16 core ones, about $12 - 14 USD.


----------



## RikudouGoku

seanwee said:


> Does anyone have any suggestions for good quality silver cables?
> 
> I'm currently considering the TRN T3 or the Fiio LC Litz cable.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001166709135.html

Looks very good.


----------



## seanwee

@Slater any recommendations?


----------



## Sebulr

I don't recommend the kz silver cable. It reminds me of the old ultimate ears cable circa 2007, it goes quite stiff with use, and the copper in the ear piece connections has gone slightly green. It's the stiffness that bothers me though. The copper rust is probably because I'm a sweaty hound, so I can forgive them that. 
I have relegated them to my kbear kb10, as I don't like their sound signature without eq.


----------



## Slater

seanwee said:


> @Slater any recommendations?



When you say silver, do you mean pure silver, or silver plated copper?


----------



## seanwee

Slater said:


> When you say silver, do you mean pure silver, or silver plated copper?


Pure Silver


----------



## Podster

If I may: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## Slater

seanwee said:


> Pure Silver



OK, well I’m not an expert at pure silver cables, only because I just have a few.

However, the TRN T3 is legit, and a great value. The FiiO pure silver cable is also excellent, and is very high quality (using oyaide connectors).

Finally, NiceHCK just released a budget pure silver cable. I ordered a few just to check out, but they have not arrived yet. However, in general NiceHCK cables are well made and I have never had any problems with them.

Im sure there are other pure silver choices, especially since you have a budget of $100. I would ask definitely ask @hakuzen and also @Dsnuts for their input.


----------



## Podster

I myself prefer working with Jim so usually this one with great connector options: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ 

Or if your MMCX and have the cash you can't beat these  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## Dave Drums

I've just started to realise what everyone was talking about on here about struggling to keep up with KZ releases, I know they have slowed a little recently, but you can be sure as soon as you are sitting comfy enjoying the latest model, a new one gets released! 
I just got the CCA C12's - first Chi Fi IEM and I dig it, nice clear presentation, much more emphasis on treble than any IEM's I already own but it's breathing new life into old records and giving a fresh perspective, it's supposed to be fun right?  
Only now I see the CCA CA16 has just dropped, also wondering about the ZSX which I was going to buy originally, I saw some people mention the treble was a bit too much which led me to the C12's  I'm considering ordering one of these to A/B against the C12's.
There's a lot of love for the CA CA16's right now and I'm curious if people are swapping their CA12's and ZSX out for these,
The CA CA16 are twice the price of the ZSX where I am.
I've heard conflicting things about which is the brighter sounding, ZSX or C12, most say ZSX is brighter?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 1, 2020)

Dave Drums said:


> I've just started to realise what everyone was talking about on here about struggling to keep up with KZ releases, I know they have slowed a little recently, but you can be sure as soon as you are sitting comfy enjoying the latest model, a new one gets released!
> I just got the CCA C12's - first Chi Fi IEM and I dig it, nice clear presentation, much more emphasis on treble than any IEM's I already own but it's breathing new life into old records and giving a fresh perspective, it's supposed to be fun right?
> Only now I see the CCA CA16 has just dropped, also wondering about the ZSX which I was going to buy originally, I saw some people mention the treble was a bit too much which led me to the C12's  I'm considering ordering one of these to A/B against the C12's.
> There's a lot of love for the CA CA16's right now and I'm curious if people are swapping their CA12's and ZSX out for these,
> ...


C12 are definitely a tiny bit brighter (slightly more extended treble), slightly more mid-bass compared to ZSX, ZSX bass feels a bit tigher.

P. S. I am in the process of burning/acclimating CA16 now, which are quite amazing!


----------



## Dave Drums

PhonoPhi said:


> C12 are definitely a tiny bit brighter (slightly more extended treble), slightly more mid-bass compared to ZSX, ZSX bass feels a bit tigher.
> 
> P. S. I am in the process of burning/acclimating CA16 now, which are quite amazing!


Nice! thank you for the info - I'm curious which headphones you were using prior to getting the CA16's??
I guess I'm wondering if to pick up the ZSX or go for the CA16's


----------



## seanwee

Thanks for all the recommendations everyone, I've narrowed it down to the Nicehck Litz and the TRN T3. Which one is better if I wanted more clarity?
And is the ALO litz worth it over the Nicehck litz?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 1, 2020)

Dave Drums said:


> Nice! thank you for the info - I'm curious which headphones you were using prior to getting the CA16's??
> I guess I'm wondering if to pick up the ZSX or go for the CA16's


ZSX and C12 are quite close, so CA16 vs. ZSX is an easier answer.

I am a great fun of KZ/CCA.
I tried to make a list what I was using before, that would be about everything  what they made with 10 or more drivers (and CA4), they all have their strength to me that I enjoy with different recordings/mood.
CA16 now grow to be one of the most universal


----------



## pfloyd

Dave Drums said:


> Nice! thank you for the info - I'm curious which headphones you were using prior to getting the CA16's??
> I guess I'm wondering if to pick up the ZSX or go for the CA16's


The ZSX will probably be more similar to the C12,the CA16 more different, so depends on which you want. I think one of the biggest differences the CA16 has is that it doesn’t have a balanced armature in the nozzle like most other hybrids, which I believe leads to its smoother and non fatiguing treble, I really like it.


----------



## IEMusic

pfloyd said:


> The ZSX will probably be more similar to the C12,the CA16 more different, so depends on which you want. I think one of the biggest differences the CA16 has is that it doesn’t have a balanced armature in the nozzle like most other hybrids, which I believe leads to its smoother and non fatiguing treble, I really like it.


Based on all reports I’ve read thus far, the CA16 seems to be the first really well balanced, musical, non-V shaped hybrid IEM from CCA/KZ, that has really good mids.  A much needed addition.


----------



## xtremesystems

for me mids are good but too much treble. and it is fatigung if someone has good hearing


----------



## xtremesystems

Dave Drums said:


> Nice! thank you for the info - I'm curious which headphones you were using prior to getting the CA16's??
> I guess I'm wondering if to pick up the ZSX or go for the CA16's


if you dont use eq go for zsx. but with eq ca16 are better all the way


----------



## IEMusic

xtremesystems said:


> for me mids are good but too much treble. and it is fatigung if someone has good hearing
> 
> if you dont use eq go for zsx. but with eq ca16 are better all the way


The CA16 has too much/too bright treble compared to the ZSX?  I thought that b/c there is no BA in the nozzle of the CA16 it wasn’t as bright.  I don’t find the ZSX to bright, though I think the ZS10 Pro is just slightly too bright for my tastes.


----------



## nraymond

IEMusic said:


> The CA16 has too much/too bright treble compared to the ZSX?  I thought that b/c there is no BA in the nozzle of the CA16 it wasn’t as bright.  I don’t find the ZSX to bright, though I think the ZS10 Pro is just slightly too bright for my tastes.



I don't have the ZSX, but have a lot of other earphones, and wouldn't call the CA16 bright. And from my memory (don't have them anymore), the ZS10 Pro earphones were bright compared to the CA16.


----------



## xtremesystems

i have both. ca has much more treble than zsx.  its hissing treble in some genres


----------



## nraymond (Jul 2, 2020)

xtremesystems said:


> i have both. ca has much more treble than zsx.  its hissing treble in some genres



I should mention I am not using the bundled ear tips with the CA16 - I am using the medium tips from the "5 Pairs Earphone Tips Replacement Zisure Silicone Gels Earbuds Tips Cover Cap Inner Hole 3.8mm Fit for in-Ear Headphones with 4mm-5.5mm Tips" sold on Amazon.


----------



## Dave Drums

nraymond said:


> I don't have the ZSX, but have a lot of other earphones, and wouldn't call the CA16 bright. And from my memory (don't have them anymore), the ZS10 Pro earphones were bright compared to the CA16.


Yeah that's what I've heard - I just ordered some ZSX to A\B against C12 - I've heard conflicting things about which is brighter - most say C12 b


IEMusic said:


> The CA16 has too much/too bright treble compared to the ZSX?  I thought that b/c there is no BA in the nozzle of the CA16 it wasn’t as bright.  I don’t find the ZSX to bright, though I think the ZS10 Pro is just slightly too bright for my tastes.


Interesting that @xtremesystems finds the CCA CA16 too bright, just goes to show how our hearing is all different and not even 2 people experience the same pair of headphones in exactly the same way, and thats even without adding all the variables of tips/amp/mood/ listening duration/volume/ any alcohol consumed prior to listening etc....
From what I've read/watched on CA16 they mostly seem to point to what @IEMusic says about them being the most neutral KZ/CCA tuning so far.
Some love it and praise the balance of CA16, other side of the coin is some people find them less engaging compared to more V shaped offerings.
I've already got a more reference style set of IEM's, as contrast I'm quite digging the treble emphasis of the C12, it seems to work great for dense rock songs, some older Tool,Slipknot and Paramore sounded amazing through these. Maybe they have less high end to begin with.... Jazz didn't do so well on the CA12's, a lot of modern Jazz records have a very pristine sheen to the top end, Tried Pat Metheny + Brad Meldau etc which ends up being a bit in your face.
Just ordered some ZSX's as they got reduced on Amazon and after all the praise I've read here about them I fancied giving them a try alongside the C12's to see which I prefer, I'll likely not keep both.


----------



## Podster

Dave Drums said:


> Yeah that's what I've heard - I just ordered some ZSX to A\B against C12 - I've heard conflicting things about which is brighter - most say C12 b
> 
> Interesting that @xtremesystems finds the CCA CA16 too bright, just goes to show how our hearing is all different and not even 2 people experience the same pair of headphones in exactly the same way, and thats even without adding all the variables of tips/amp/mood/ listening duration/volume/ any alcohol consumed prior to listening etc....
> From what I've read/watched on CA16 they mostly seem to point to what @IEMusic says about them being the most neutral KZ/CCA tuning so far.
> ...



Indeed and why I always say we all hear them just a little differently  It's late and here's a little KZ Porn for  curvey lovers


----------



## hmscott (Jul 4, 2020)

I'm enjoying my new (month old) KZ AS16 and I don't think it's anything but perfectly balanced - although it's a bit large generally it fits in my ears just fine and are comfortable for long stretches.

Have any of you A/B'd the KZ AS16 and the CA16 - new or original?  Should I pick those up too?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 3, 2020)

hmscott said:


> I'm enjoying my new (month old) KZ AS16 and I don't think it's anything but perfectly balanced - although it's a bit large generally it fits in my ears just fine and are comfortable for long stretches.
> 
> Have any of you A/B's the KZ AS16 and the CA16 - new or original?  Should I pick those up too?


AS16 are more treble-rich (nice for me but seems too much for many judging by some reviews) compared to CA16.

Not that CA16 are treble shy (as C16 for instance), but they are definitely gentler compared to AS16.

Since CA16 are hybrids, the bass will be most different.

CA16 are much smaller, so they fit much more comfortably for me (I do not have much problems with AS16 but after few hours I start to feel their presence).

I did not get "new or original" part.
If you refer to C16 - they are essentially entirely different from CA16.
C16 are the all-BA design, a close relative of AS16 (their predecessor but with different treble drivers), with thicker nice mids and less treble.


----------



## rggz

Wow, nice to see the ZST got an update! I remember digging the ZST and ZS5v1 a lot some years ago for something more energetic, even though the ZST was a bit too energetic for my taste, the foam mod that someone posted on this thread or somewhere really fixed the uneven peak at the treble.

I'm not a big fan of the pink/blue and green versions but this black seems really classy.




I'm def getting one for the nostalgia when they put it back on stock.


----------



## xtremesystems

on this setup [ca16 +es100] ca16 mash brains out. zsx are far away


----------



## Yoshi948

I've come to this thread to ask if any of you have owned the KZ ES4's. I am looking to replace them with another ChiFi headphone that is better within a $50 budget, so far it seems that the KZ ZSX or CCA-12 are my options. But I'd like to know if there are better considering that I like the warm signature of the ES4s a lot, and how it compares against it, any recommendations?


----------



## raccoon city

rggz said:


>


Ooh, those black ZST X look really nice!


----------



## raccoon city

Yoshi948 said:


> I've come to this thread to ask if any of you have owned the KZ ES4's. I am looking to replace them with another ChiFi headphone that is better within a $50 budget, so far it seems that the KZ ZSX or CCA-12 are my options. But I'd like to know if there are better considering that I like the warm signature of the ES4s a lot, and how it compares against it, any recommendations?


I have some ES4's
I think the KZ with the most bass are the ZS7 and the ZSX.
I like the ZS7 a lot more than the ES4, and I have the ZSX coming in the mail.


----------



## Dave Drums (Jul 3, 2020)

Yoshi948 said:


> I've come to this thread to ask if any of you have owned the KZ ES4's. I am looking to replace them with another ChiFi headphone that is better within a $50 budget, so far it seems that the KZ ZSX or CCA-12 are my options. But I'd like to know if there are better considering that I like the warm signature of the ES4s a lot, and how it compares against it, any recommendations?



I haven't heard the ES4's so I can't offer a comparison to those. I do however have the C12's - I wouldn't describe them as warm, despite having good low end - their strength is detail and sparkle. I've heard people refer to the sound as 'digital' which is a good description - sounds like you want the opposite- more warm 'analogue' vibe....

I really like the C12's, as they are different from my other IEM's.
I have some ZSX coming in the mail (waiting on ZSX the same as @raccoon city) but haven't heard them yet.
I've most commonly seen the ZSX referred to as 'engaging' and 'exiting' etc, this is how I would describe the C12's and they share the same drivers, just slightly different tuning. There isn't going to be that much difference between the two.... They are definitely not a 'relaxed' tuning. If you've ever heard Shure 215's - they are like a warm blanket compared to the C12's...
CCA now has the CA16 now which may be over budget but they are apparently smoother than ZSX and C12, they don't have a BA in the nozzle like the C12's and ZSX and some report this makes for a more relaxing listen. Others here are more knowledgable on this stuff if you want to get more info on these other models....
For warm I would perhaps try a different model - BLON03 and V90 I've heard good things about. It all depends how forward you like your mids and high end along with your low end warmth.
Hope this helps!


----------



## Sebulr

Yoshi948 said:


> I've come to this thread to ask if any of you have owned the KZ ES4's. I am looking to replace them with another ChiFi headphone that is better within a $50 budget, so far it seems that the KZ ZSX or CCA-12 are my options. But I'd like to know if there are better considering that I like the warm signature of the ES4s a lot, and how it compares against it, any recommendations?


If it's anything like the zst or zsn, I recommend the zs10 and zs10 pro. Depends if you like the fit of the es4? I prefer the zs10 over the pro.  My favourite is the blon bl 03. It is smoother than hybrids, but is pretty detailed for a single dynamic driver. It has fit issues however. See the blon thread for details. I also recommend the kz zsr,  and the revonext qt2.


----------



## seanwee (Jul 3, 2020)

Dave Drums said:


> If you've ever heard Shure 215's - they are like a warm blanket compared to the C12's...


More like a muddy mess

They were never that good to begin with, and with chi-fi iems sounding this good for less than half their price their fate has basically been sealed.


----------



## Yoshi948

Dave Drums said:


> I haven't heard the ES4's so I can't offer a comparison to those. I do however have the C12's - I wouldn't describe them as warm, despite having good low end - their strength is detail and sparkle. I've heard people refer to the sound as 'digital' which is a good description - sounds like you want the opposite- more warm 'analogue' vibe....
> 
> I really like the C12's, as they are different from my other IEM's.
> I have some ZSX coming in the mail (waiting on ZSX the same as @raccoon city) but haven't heard them yet.
> ...


The CA16 is definitely something I can't afford at the moment, haha.


----------



## hmscott

rggz said:


> Wow, nice to see the ZST got an update! I remember digging the ZST and ZS5v1 a lot some years ago for something more energetic, even though the ZST was a bit too energetic for my taste, the foam mod that someone posted on this thread or somewhere really fixed the uneven peak at the treble.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of the pink/blue and green versions but this black seems really classy.
> 
> ...


The ZST X's are supposed to release mid-July, I've got a pair coming - I'll update when they arrive.


----------



## Viber

Anyone knows if *AS06* and *ZSR* use the same BA drivers?

Are the AS06 essentially the same as ZSR, apart from AS06 using 1BA driver to handle the bass instead of a dynamic one?


----------



## seanwee (Jul 5, 2020)

V0.2 of my ZSX tuning is ready, the bass was just a tad too elevated for my taste. This tames the bass even more than my v0.1 eq without affecting the rumble so you'll still have a satisfying bassline with less stuffiness. Still cant crack the slight oddness in the mids.

32hz  : 0db
64hz  : -2db
125hz: - 4db
250hz:  -2db
500hz: +1db
1khz  : +1db
2khz  :  -2db
4khz  :   0db
8khz  : +1db
16khz:   0db

After some extended time with the ZSX I've reevaluated my rating of the ZSX
Lows 7 => 7
Mids 9 => 8
Treble 9 => 9

With Eq
Lows 8
Mids 8.5
Treble 9

The scale is based on the best i've ever heard. NO iems ive ever heard get a 10 on everything. This is based on my subjective preferences.


----------



## Dave Drums

seanwee said:


> V0.2 of my ZSX tuning is ready, the bass was just a tad too elevated for my taste. This tames the bass even more than my v0.1 eq without affecting the rumble so you'll still have a satisfying bassline with less stuffiness. Still cant crack the slight oddness in the mids.
> 
> 32hz  : 0db
> 64hz  : -2db
> ...



Nice! I just got the ZSX - fit is better than expected! - which eq app do you recommend for Android phone?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Dave Drums said:


> Nice! I just got the ZSX - fit is better than expected! - which eq app do you recommend for Android phone?


Poweramp has a very nice looking UI and easy EQ.

Neutron player is my favorite for sound quality and also best EQ (it is advanced though) but the UI is pretty bad.


----------



## seanwee

Dave Drums said:


> Nice! I just got the ZSX - fit is better than expected! - which eq app do you recommend for Android phone?


Hiby music works fine. Enjoy your ZSX 



RikudouGoku said:


> Poweramp has a very nice looking UI and easy EQ.
> 
> Neutron player is my favorite for sound quality and also best EQ (it is advanced though) but the UI is pretty bad.


I've never tried neutron player. I currently use UAPP which also enhances the sound quality compared to other apps. Most notably the bass goes deeper and is tighter, the treble is also subtly crispier.


----------



## RikudouGoku

seanwee said:


> I've never tried neutron player. I currently use UAPP which also enhances the sound quality compared to other apps. Most notably the bass goes deeper and is tighter, the treble is also subtly crispier.


The difference with UAPP/neutron with all other music players is that it does NOT make it better but it uses the entire potential of the dac/amp in the phone. Normal music players are limited by the Android OS but UAPP/Neutron simply bypasses that. That is why these players sound better than the rest, and more so if you have a better than average dac/amp like the LG series. For Daps I would believe that their "stock" music players are also fully able to utilize their potential and also bypass the Android OS.


----------



## seanwee

RikudouGoku said:


> The difference with UAPP/neutron with all other music players is that it does NOT make it better but it uses the entire potential of the dac/amp in the phone. Normal music players are limited by the Android OS but UAPP/Neutron simply bypasses that. That is why these players sound better than the rest, and more so if you have a better than average dac/amp like the LG series. For Daps I would believe that their "stock" music players are also fully able to utilize their potential and also bypass the Android OS.


I believe the way the app processes the sound also matters. UAPP has consistently provided a tighter bass and crisper treble in all devices I've tried it on. Be it my note 8/9, Cayin N5ii or DX160 compared to their stock player/regular app. 

Heck UAPP was never optimised for the N5ii and just runs on generic android mode.


----------



## CRML

peter123 said:


> Fwiw I've got the **** F05 and they're nothing special. They're bassy, warm, smooth and with slightly recessed mids. Unfortunately they lack clarity and sparkle and makes a pretty unengaging and dull listening experience. If you're looking for something with a similar signature I'd suggest the YINJW DIY IE800, they share the same overall signature but has much better clarity and details.
> 
> I'd put them on pair with the ED9 in overall perforamance, just a very different signature so it really depends on what you're looking for.



How Do They Sound Compared To Senfer4in1 N SenferPT15 ????...N Why The Name Of The BrandSenfer Is Being Censured If Typed Alone ???...Thats Very Strange...🤣🤣🤣...I LOVE OverBright N Clean Signatures But Neither Of These Senfers Are Bright As I Espected,They Are More Tô The Neutral Side As My SenferPT15 Is The 2017/18 Version But I Still Love The Detailed Range,Is The SenferF05 Acctually More Bright N Detailed Than Those Other Models ???...I Know They Kinda Rare To Find Now These Days Trhough.


----------



## gr33nhorn (Jul 5, 2020)

how do the ZS4/ZS3e compare with the ZS3? while i have better sounding buds, i have fallen in love with the fit of the ZS3 - it feels like what i imagine a custom would feel like.
It sounds great too. There isnt much to complain - But a little more resolution and sub bass wouldn't hurt. Have read the ZS4 are too harsh (I can't stand harsh) and the ZS3E are somewhere in between - are any of these worth a try? or should i stick to the ZS3?


----------



## moleface

To update an earlier post re: fit - I finally got a good seal on these with  XL single flange silicone tips I got on Amazon.

Over all the years of using IEMs, I never realized that I'm an XL. To get a seal, I've always used the largest supplied tips, turned IEMs upside down and cable-up, then wedged them deep in my ears where the canal narrows. That wasn't possible with the ZSX, hence why I couldn't get them to seal.

Boy are these great with electronic music. They're pretty much exactly what I was looking for to listen to that genre. The sub bass goes deep without intruding on the other frequencies, creating a deep clean bassline that's separate from the other elements the music. They bring out all the textures and micro details too. I was just listening to Ruby My Dear and had an eargasm.

My only complaint is that they tend to make lower-fidelity recordings sound thin and harsh. I listen to a ton of 80s and 90s hardcore punk stuff that was recorded on a shoestring budget, and it sounds grating on these but great on my Zero Audio Carbo Tenores and Sennheiser 595s.


----------



## seanwee

moleface said:


> To update an earlier post re: fit - I finally got a good seal on these with  XL single flange silicone tips I got on Amazon.
> 
> Over all the years of using IEMs, I never realized that I'm an XL. To get a seal, I've always used the largest supplied tips, turned IEMs upside down and cable-up, then wedged them deep in my ears where the canal narrows. That wasn't possible with the ZSX, hence why I couldn't get them to seal.
> 
> ...


Yes, the tuning of the ZSX is on the thinner and dryer side so it doesn't smooth over poorly recorded tracks like warmer and darker iems do. 

I have a 595 myself so I think I might be able to cook up a tuning for the ZSX that's closer to the 595 but also the detail of the ZSX.


----------



## seanwee (Jul 6, 2020)

seanwee said:


> Yes, the tuning of the ZSX is on the thinner and dryer side so it doesn't smooth over poorly recorded tracks like warmer and darker iems do.
> 
> I have a 595 myself so I think I might be able to cook up a tuning for the ZSX that's closer to the 595 but also the detail of the ZSX.


Put this together in about 10 mins listening to 50-60s music. It would help if you could name any specific songs you said are poorly recorded. @moleface

32hz  : 0db
64hz  : -2db
125hz: - 4db
250hz:  +5db
500hz: +5db
1khz  : +5db
2khz  :  0db
4khz  :   -3db
8khz  : -6db
16khz:   -3db

This a warm tuning for those who want to try it. Personally I don't like this kind of sound.

Bonus: for those who want more body but not the warmth

32hz  : 0db
64hz  : -2db
125hz: - 4db
250hz:  +3db
500hz: +5db
1khz  : +5db
2khz  :  0db
4khz  :   0db
8khz  : 0db
16khz:   0db

As always any feedback is appreciated


----------



## xtremesystems

your tune are very aggressive. on es100 i tune single frequency 0.6 db max. you guys tune 6db


----------



## seanwee (Jul 6, 2020)

xtremesystems said:


> your tune are very aggressive. on es100 i tune single frequency 0.6 db max. you guys tune 6db


Its a rough tune. A 1db tune is unnoticeable to most people.


----------



## chinmie

I'm reeeaally late to the game, but at least now i have some closure on what this all about 

juat like most hybrids (and also most multi BAs), cable braids have effect on the sound. not much, but A/B ing it you would likely notice slight changes.. not much to go running for new cables, but if you already have a couple, try swapping it to see if you like the changes. 
I'm using the Lyre cable from my Kanas which has 8 braids compared to the stock cable's 4. 

sadly i don't have my ZS10 Pro anymore to do comparison, but from memory, they do have similar sound signature and resolution, but i remembered more wow-ed when i first listened to the ZS10 Pro. probably because it has a more excited treble, leaner low mids, and more subbass rumble, making it more engaging on first listening. 

this ZSX is a more softer and pleasant sound compared to ZS10 Pro, while having about the same technical capabilities. 

i also like this ZSX fitting more. while the ZS10 Pro still moves a bit if i wiggled it when on my ears, the ZSX have more contact area to my ears, making more stable and more similarl to using CIEMs

next I'm going to test it to play some games, see if it has the same good capabilities as the ZS10 Pro for that


----------



## Viber

How long until KZ gives me ZSR TWS edition?  

or

Any news when Z2 is released or expected?  
Z1 looks good, but that pathetic battery life...


----------



## khighly

Yeah still wouldn't recommend KZ TWS. Their case often just doesn't charge one of the IEM's, they don't pair sometimes, they have intermittent skip issues where you need to re-pair with the phone again. Meh. They have the sound pretty good, but they really need to focus on seamless BT connectivity & ironing out bugs.


----------



## Unolord

khighly said:


> Yeah still wouldn't recommend KZ TWS. Their case often just doesn't charge one of the IEM's, they don't pair sometimes, they have intermittent skip issues where you need to re-pair with the phone again. Meh. They have the sound pretty good, but they really need to focus on seamless BT connectivity & ironing out bugs.



I have the KZ S2 and I would not recommend them. The SQ is good but the connectivity is not stellar. Used them with the Hidizs Ap80, Sony NW-A45 and Xiaomi Mi A3 and all three devices have had connection issues that required re-pairing. I had latency issues so bad with the Sony I thought maybe the album I was listening to was corrupted. Nope, just bad BT.

My major gripe though is battery life. Just under 3 hours. 

KZ put the USB-C port on the bottom of the case for some stupid reason...

Oh and no volume control.


----------



## gr33nhorn

my KZ S2 is horrible at calls - the mic keeps getting dropped, and i have people pinging me on chat telling me that they can't hear me. 
This is pretty sad. All the more surprising when the $10 KZ Aptx bluetooth cable has amazingly good sound, and sounds better than a lot of branded headphones
and they are now on sale on ali for much cheaper than I paid on indiegogo - makes me feel stupid for buying from there - never again!


----------



## DjBobby (Jul 6, 2020)

Got my KZ S2 today after 3 months of waiting. Only one question: the lid of the case is pretty loose, there is almost no spring suspension. Is this normal or did I get it broken?


----------



## d73b3e

DjBobby said:


> Got my KZ S2 today after 3 months of waiting. Only one question: the lid of the case is pretty loose, there is almost no spring suspension. Is this normal or did I get it broken?


Broken. Mine would open fully if put the lid at 60 degree.


----------



## pbui44

For anyone interested, there is a nice KZ collection selling for $36 shipped here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-ft-knowledge-zenith-iem-collection.936775/


----------



## Viber

khighly said:


> Yeah still wouldn't recommend KZ TWS. Their case often just doesn't charge one of the IEM's, they don't pair sometimes, they have intermittent skip issues where you need to re-pair with the phone again. Meh. They have the sound pretty good, but they really need to focus on seamless BT connectivity & ironing out bugs.



Interesting.  Which ones are you talking about exactly?  

KZ sold A LOT of earphones over the years,they should have some money for R&D right now.
 i wonder why they always struggle with BT while no-name "brands" are doing great in that regard.

I'm also mad at TRN for botching the bt20s tws adapter for 2pin iems.  Come on China.


----------



## d73b3e

Viber said:


> Interesting.  Which ones are you talking about exactly?
> 
> KZ sold A LOT of earphones over the years,they should have some money for R&D right now.
> i wonder why they always struggle with BT while no-name "brands" are doing great in that regard.
> ...


BT audio is hard, even harder when it comes to TWS. I trust no name other than FiiO for ChiFi bluetooth and they even struggled to lower the noise on their last TWS.


----------



## chinmie

d73b3e said:


> BT audio is hard, even harder when it comes to TWS. I trust no name other than FiiO for ChiFi bluetooth and they even struggled to lower the noise on their last TWS.



at this moment I'd rather TWSs from those who have done this for years, like QCY, Haylou, MPow, Soundpeats, etc. they may not produce the best sounding, but usually they have better success in balancing the sound and functionality factors. 

i do hope companies like KZ and CCA can catch up soon though, because they more or less already got the audio factor right


----------



## Viber

BTW,  KZ S1 TWS went some sort of weird revision. 
 Their charging is now Micro USB instead of Type C.
I dont know about further changes, if any.


----------



## thebigredpolos

Viber said:


> Anyone knows if *AS06* and *ZSR* use the same BA drivers?
> 
> Are the AS06 essentially the same as ZSR, apart from AS06 using 1BA driver to handle the bass instead of a dynamic one?


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ZSR uses two 30095 BAs, while the AS06 uses one 31005 and one 29689.  I don't think it was ever stated the model of BA used in the ZSR, but at the time they came out, 30095 was all that KZ was using.  Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Viber

^Can anyone confirm?


----------



## Slater (Jul 7, 2020)

Viber said:


> ^Can anyone confirm?



KZ was kind of secretive about the BAs in the ZSR. They never specifically came out and said what they were.



With that said, I don’t think it uses 2x30095 in the nozzle. Otherwise, it would have the HUGE 10k spike the same as the ZS5 v2 and ZS6 v1 (which DID have 2x30095 in the nozzle).

Here’s the FR graph from KZ for the ZSR (although I don’t know how accurate it is):


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> KZ was kind of secretive about the BAs in the ZSR. They never specifically came out and said what they were.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you tried the AS06?
I'm curious which one wins because its a similar config minus the dynamic driver which is replaced by a BA driver.


----------



## Unolord

gr33nhorn said:


> my KZ S2 is horrible at calls - the mic keeps getting dropped, and i have people pinging me on chat telling me that they can't hear me.
> This is pretty sad. All the more surprising when the $10 KZ Aptx bluetooth cable has amazingly good sound, and sounds better than a lot of branded headphones
> and they are now on sale on ali for much cheaper than I paid on indiegogo - makes me feel stupid for buying from there - never again!



Yeah I knew up front when I ordered my pair from Indiegogo that the call quality was trash. 

I def won't be buying anything from Indie, Kickstarter or Drop again. I've had issues with all three relating to shipping and then throw in the ability to get the same products cheaper on AExpress it makes them pointless. Throw in the insane Covid related shipping times and there's more reasons to skip spending or hope Amazon has it for a reasonable price. I got the CVJ CSA cheaper on Amazon.ca than the AE lowest price and Prime 2 day shipping.

Still waiting on a few AE orders:
TRN cable that I ordered April 30th. As of the last tracking info on May 13th -   *International item has left originating country and is en route to Canada.*
KBKEar cable from May 1st.  June 18th* - Hand over to airline *


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Have you tried the AS06?
> I'm curious which one wins because its a similar config minus the dynamic driver which is replaced by a BA driver.



Nope, never heard the AS06. Was that one of the ‘exposed circuit board’ models?


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Nope, never heard the AS06. Was that one of the ‘exposed circuit board’ models?



The one that came out after AS10, few model ahead original ZS10 not Pro ones. Quite sometime ago. Yes exposed circuit board


----------



## purplesun

Viber said:


> Have you tried the AS06?
> I'm curious which one wins because its a similar config minus the dynamic driver which is replaced by a BA driver.





Slater said:


> Nope, never heard the AS06. Was that one of the ‘exposed circuit board’ models?



Same era as AS10. I like it for electronic compositions. When driven well, it has strong & agile bass response, decent non-sibliant treble for my treble-sensitive ears. But it has big frequency response valley somewhere in the mids which affect accuracy of acoustic instruments and voices. Good sound isolation.

Sorry, I have not used ZSR to comment on it.


----------



## axhng

Just took these out of the box. Super excited to try them out.


----------



## axhng

hot take on the ZST X after about an hour or so of listening. it's a more refined/improved sounding version of the Z1. From the tracks that I've gone through and compared side by side...

ZST X still has that punchy sub bass that reaches deep, but Z1 feels like it's rumbling more and pushing out a bit more air. So bass on the ZST X sounds more controlled. maybe because the BA driver is right at the nozzle which blocks out some air. Actually works to its advantage since some folks might not like the level of bass on the Z1. For me I'm fine with the Z1's bass because I mostly use it while jogging or while walking around, so that extra punch works great in those situations. Home listening will prefer the tamer ZST X for sure.

Mids sounds a bit fuller to me, and darker male vocals seems to have a bit more weight to them compared to the Z1. Upper mids was the surprise for me here because it sounds a bit less elevated compared to the Z1? Brighter vocals like from female jpop songs sounds a little less intense. I personally find the upper mids on the Z1 just about on the teetering edge of being too shouty for my own taste, so the ZST X is like one notch down from that, but if possible I personally would kinda like something inbetween the 2 actually. lol.

Treble is better extended as expected, which has a nice effect on brighter vocals too making them sound a bit airier and more natural i think. I was a little afraid it would be like the KZ S2 and sound a bit sibilant, but thankfully that's not the case at all. The song that usually stand out for me is Rei Yasuda's Kimi no Uta. her airy vocals plus the Japanese language's generous use of S and Ts makes it easy to hear for those thing, and it sounds completely fine on the ZST X. I don't hear any odd timbre as well in songs like Depapepe's ii-hi dattane (acoustic guitar), or Itzhak Perlman's Theme from Schindler's List (violin).

Overall tonality i think is real nice and relatively smooth sounding. Very enjoyable set of IEMs to listen to. Details retrieval is maybe a bit better than on the Z1, but still isn't particular amazing, but soundstage and separation are a small step up from the Z1. Sound wise definitely an improvement overall, and at the price i paid which is about 12USD (local online shopping site had some discount mechanism), i think it's a steal. With this around, I think there is pretty much no reason to go for the ZSN Pros anymore. And for those who don't need to use it for sports and just want something wireless, pairing it with a bluetooth cable could be an option too.


----------



## Keputs

Just want to make sure I hear them damn clickers clearly!


----------



## TheVortex

Keputs said:


> Just want to make sure I hear them damn clickers clearly!



Which cable is that?


----------



## Miyanovic

axhng said:


> hot take on the ZST X after about an hour or so of listening. it's a more refined/improved sounding version of the Z1. From the tracks that I've gone through and compared side by side...
> 
> ZST X still has that punchy sub bass that reaches deep, but Z1 feels like it's rumbling more and pushing out a bit more air. So bass on the ZST X sounds more controlled. maybe because the BA driver is right at the nozzle which blocks out some air. Actually works to its advantage since some folks might not like the level of bass on the Z1. For me I'm fine with the Z1's bass because I mostly use it while jogging or while walking around, so that extra punch works great in those situations. Home listening will prefer the tamer ZST X for sure.
> 
> ...



It seems that it is not very similar to the ZST and ZST Pro. It also seems that they may be the most neutral KZ so far. I wonder what the response curve will look like.


----------



## Slater (Jul 9, 2020)

Got a vintage KZ ED10 from a fellow HeadFier today. I’ve been looking for them for years now.

While the ED10’s W-shaped tuning isn’t really my cup of tea, it is absolutely unbelievable how far KZ has come since these came out in 2015.

Listening to these compared to the current stuff KZ puts out is night and day. Not even in the same league. Everything about them has been continuously improved. Driver technology, sound quality, competency of tuning, accessories, cable, build quality, fit, finish.

Anyways, some people like to knock on KZ, but this hobby would not be where it is today if not for them. They gave us a lot of good products at very affordable prices, and helped release the strangle hold that the overpriced western companies had on us for decades.

I have no problem continuing to support KZ with my money from time to time. As long as they have a reason to stay in the game (sales/profit), they will keep moving forwards (which benefits all of us).


----------



## Keputs

TheVortex said:


> Which cable is that?


It's just a KZ gold silver mixed cable 200 core upgrade. Well, that's how it was described by the online store. But definitely better than the stock cable.


----------



## IEMusic

Slater said:


> Got a vintage KZ ED10 from a fellow HeadFier today. I’ve been looking for them for years now.
> 
> While the ED10’s W-shaped tuning isn’t really my cup of tea, it is absolutely unbelievable how far KZ has come since these came out in 2015.
> 
> ...


I think they especially jump started hybrid IEMs, both in the budget realm, and as a whole.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Is the ZST more popular/famous than the ZSN? Why did they update the ZST instead of the ZSN (referring to the ZSTX)?


----------



## Slater (Jul 10, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Is the ZST more popular/famous than the ZSN? Why did they update the ZST instead of the ZSN (referring to the ZSTX)?



They did update the ZSN.

And the ZST was their very first hybrid, so it’s kinda special to KZ. That’s why they made the special editions faceplates.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Slater said:


> They did update the ZSN.
> 
> And the ZST was their very first hybrid, so it’s kinda special to KZ. That’s why they made the special editions faceplates.


You mean the ZSN Pro?


----------



## Slater (Jul 10, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> You mean the ZSN Pro?



Yup

KZ kind of does this “tick tock” upgrade method (like Intel). Where they update one model, then a different model, then a different model. They don’t upgrade the same model in a row.

It’s been a while since the ZST was upgraded.


----------



## caprimulgus

IEMusic said:


> I think they especially jump started hybrid IEMs, both in the budget realm, and as a whole.



UE Super.Fi 5EB came out in like 2006!


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> Yup
> 
> KZ kind of does this “tick tock” upgrade method (like Intel). Where they update one model, then a different model, then a different model. They don’t upgrade the same model in a row.
> 
> It’s been a while since the ZST was upgraded.



Using KZ and Intel in the same sentence feels wrong


----------



## khighly

Viber said:


> Using KZ and Intel in the same sentence feels wrong


my intel IEM's have 8 drivers and 16 total threads, in _each ear_


----------



## Viber

khighly said:


> my intel IEM's have 8 drivers and 16 total threads, in _each ear_



Yea, but can they run Crisis?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 14, 2020)

Anyone using one of these adapters on their KZ or CCA IEM's able to tell me which pin is positive and which is negative? Just a quick continuity check with a multimeter.




Is the top or bottom pin positive, when oriented like it is installed on the IEM? (ie: on the left connector in the picture, is the left (top) pin the positive?)


----------



## Sebasistan

How does the CA16 compare to the AS16? 
And how does the ZSX compare to those? I like the AS16 mostly, but they can be a bit... Lacking oomph. Thought I might add a hybrid to my collection.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Sebasistan said:


> How does the CA16 compare to the AS16?
> And how does the ZSX compare to those? I like the AS16 mostly, but they can be a bit... Lacking oomph. Thought I might add a hybrid to my collection.


I like AS16 as well, for their treble and overall.

In terms, of "oomph" out of what you've mentioned, ZSX would have the most, somewhat V-shaped, mids are recessed for some.

CA16 are more mid-centric, the dynamic bass is there, I love how the DD is integrated with the rest (the main problem of hybrids to me), the treble is there but with politeness.

All three mentioned are quite complementary to each other, so which one to choose to go with AS16 would depend on your preference with bass and mids.


----------



## Podster

Not sure if anyone out here has both and compared them but I'm wondering how the new ZSTX stacks up against that new brand CVJ, the CSA model specifically?  Thought I'd ask this time as my old method would have just order both for less than $40 and try them, easily gifted away at those prices


----------



## purplesun (Jul 13, 2020)

Podster said:


> Not sure if anyone out here has both and compared them but I'm wondering how the new ZSTX stacks up against that new brand CVJ, the CSA model specifically?  Thought I'd ask this time as my old method would have just order both for less than $40 and try them, easily gifted away at those prices


Very nearly executed your old method (also my old method) but ordered just the ZSTX last week. I figured with both ZSTX & CSA being very similar in design (and cheap) - someone's bound to go ahead with our old methods pretty soon


----------



## KevC

Wow, this thread is huge. 4+ years ago I ordered a couple pairs of KZ ATE-S; and they're still working fine - except _both_ pairs have developed an annoying rattle.

I understand KZ have improved quite a bit; so I'm thinking about an affordable pair to replace them. I think the ZSN/ZSN Pro are in the budget (<$20)? is this a good upgrade from the ATE-S? Anything else I should consider? 

Thanks,


----------



## assassin10000

KevC said:


> Wow, this thread is huge. 4+ years ago I ordered a couple pairs of KZ ATE-S; and they're still working fine - except _both_ pairs have developed an annoying rattle.
> 
> I understand KZ have improved quite a bit; so I'm thinking about an affordable pair to replace them. I think the ZSN/ZSN Pro are in the budget (<$20)? is this a good upgrade from the ATE-S? Anything else I should consider?
> 
> Thanks,



I'd probably go for the ZSN Pro between those two. 

If you can spare $5-10 more the ZS10 Pro ($25-30) or another $10-15 the zs7 ($30-35).


I'd research those, as I haven't owned or heard them yet myself.


----------



## NeonHD

Hey guys, is it technically possible to do an MMCX mod on the KZ ED9? I mean the casing is metal so if the MMCX plug doesn't fit then I'd have to drill it wider.

BTW I was reading some of the posts on this thread and wanted to reply to one but then I realized that it was from 2014 😂😂


----------



## assassin10000

NeonHD said:


> Hey guys, is it technically possible to do an MMCX mod on the KZ ED9? I mean the casing is metal so if the MMCX plug doesn't fit then I'd have to drill it wider.
> 
> BTW I was reading some of the posts on this thread and wanted to reply to one but then I realized that it was from 2014 😂😂



Hahaha. Happens.


It may be possible. 

Got a fine (mm) metric ruler or caliper to measure the housing and the diameter of the strain relief?


----------



## Slater (Jul 13, 2020)

NeonHD said:


> Hey guys, is it technically possible to do an MMCX mod on the KZ ED9? I mean the casing is metal so if the MMCX plug doesn't fit then I'd have to drill it wider.
> 
> BTW I was reading some of the posts on this thread and wanted to reply to one but then I realized that it was from 2014 😂😂



Yes




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3284#post-15400388

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3284#post-15400501



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-2829#post-14826494


----------



## purplesun

KevC said:


> I understand KZ have improved quite a bit; so I'm thinking about an affordable pair to replace them. I think the ZSN/ZSN Pro are in the budget (<$20)? is this a good upgrade from the ATE-S? Anything else I should consider?


Nearest direct upgrade to ATE-S sound signature that I can think of is the Blon BL-03 - there's a thread dedicated for it.
But be aware that ATE-S ear-tips' long reach is sorely missing in the Blon. But if BL03 fits well, it will sound like ATE-S with a PhD degree!


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



HOLY screw THAT'S AWESOME! I am so buying another ED9 to do this mod. 

Also I recently bought this mini "hobby clamp" which is gonna greatly help me with the soldering and boring.


----------



## chinmie

purplesun said:


> Nearest direct upgrade to ATE-S sound signature that I can think of is the Blon BL-03 - there's a thread dedicated for it.
> But be aware that ATE-S ear-tips' long reach is sorely missing in the Blon. But if BL03 fits well, it will sound like ATE-S with a PhD degree!



now that you mentioned it, they do have similar sound signature


----------



## assassin10000

NeonHD said:


> HOLY screw THAT'S AWESOME! I am so buying another ED9 to do this mod.
> 
> Also I recently bought this mini "hobby clamp" which is gonna greatly help me with the soldering and boring.



You should get the alligator clip helping hand. Great for holding tiny MMCX while you tin them or solder wires onto them. 

Curing epoxy on MMCX.



I also recommend getting a soldering 'heat sink', this keeps cable insulation flexible. Especially important on litz or enameled wires, as they will harden with heat when soldering up to 10-12mm.

Tinning wires:


----------



## NeonHD

assassin10000 said:


> You should get the alligator clip helping hand. Great for holding tiny MMCX while you tin them or solder wires onto them.
> 
> Curing epoxy on MMCX.
> 
> ...



Ah those alligator clips are a good idea as well, and thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Podster

NeonHD said:


> Hey guys, is it technically possible to do an MMCX mod on the KZ ED9? I mean the casing is metal so if the MMCX plug doesn't fit then I'd have to drill it wider.
> 
> BTW I was reading some of the posts on this thread and wanted to reply to one but then I realized that it was from 2014 😂😂



Do some searching, I could swear at one time I saw either that someone did it or maybe even saw a picture but clueless myself when and where that may have been, I've slept since then and I'm just a little younger than dirt


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone using one of these adapters on their KZ or CCA IEM's able to tell me which pin is positive and which is negative? Just a quick continuity check with a multimeter.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the top or bottom pin positive, when oriented like it is installed on the IEM? (ie: on the left connector in the picture, is the left (top) pin the positive?)


----------



## Sebasistan

PhonoPhi said:


> I like AS16 as well, for their treble and overall.
> 
> In terms, of "oomph" out of what you've mentioned, ZSX would have the most, somewhat V-shaped, mids are recessed for some.
> 
> ...


Went for the CA16 for now. Added a balanced silver cable, too. Heck, I might throw in the ZSX on top as well for poops and giggles. At those prices... 

Now all I gotta do is wait... I guess they'll arrive here by mid-August.


----------



## Podster

Sebasistan said:


> Went for the CA16 for now. Added a balanced silver cable, too. Heck, I might throw in the ZSX on top as well for poops and giggles. At those prices...
> 
> Now all I gotta do is wait... I guess they'll arrive here by mid-August.



At this point you may as well wait for the 11/11 sales and clean house


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> At this point you may as well wait for the 11/11 sales and clean house



Plus all the hype trains and new toy bias (on all of the current stuff) will be died down by then, so we can sift the wheat from the chaff and get the good stuff.

Of course, there will be new hype trains by then.


----------



## IEMusic

Slater said:


> Plus all the hype trains and new toy bias (on all of the current stuff) will be died down by then, so we can sift the wheat from the chaff and get the good stuff.
> 
> Of course, there will be new hype trains by then.


The challenge is, there’s an awful lot of wheat, and little chaff lately.  I recently got 6 new IEMs.  1 is older, and doesn’t agree with me personally, but others love it.  I’m really liking the other 5, with most of them exceeding my expectations.


----------



## Sebasistan (Jul 14, 2020)

Podster said:


> At this point you may as well wait for the 11/11 sales and clean house


Pardon me showing my relative n00bness, the what?

Also I wanted to get some of those fancy-ish resin boxes from the KZ Aliexpress store, but apparently each is mailed separately and comes with its own postage that's several times the item price. Which I guess is still cheap considering. Guess they don't bundle things up for customs reasons or something? Is there a way around that?


----------



## Slater

Sebasistan said:


> Also I wanted to get some of those fancy-ish resin boxes from the KZ Aliexpress store, but apparently each is mailed separately and comes with its own postage that's several times the item price. Which I guess is still cheap considering. Guess they don't bundle things up for customs reasons or something? Is there a way around that?



When I got some of those a while back, I ran into the same issue. I just looked around and found a different seller that didn’t charge individual shipping.


----------



## raccoon city

Podster said:


> At this point you may as well wait for the 11/11 sales and clean house





Sebasistan said:


> Pardon me showing my relative n00bness, the what?


Singles' Day, or November 11th, is a big holiday in China.
Many Chinese stores have big sales on that day, including AliExpress.


----------



## Podster

raccoon city said:


> Singles' Day, or November 11th, is a big holiday in China.
> Many Chinese stores have big sales on that day, including AliExpress.



THX, sorry @Sebasistan  I've been tied up but raccoon has you covered. You'll hear plenty of chatter especially in Chi-Fi threads just before the date arrives You can bet a whole bunch on here are saving and reading reviews/post like crazy to do an order bomb when the sale hits


----------



## courierdriver

raccoon city said:


> Singles' Day, or November 11th, is a big holiday in China.
> Many Chinese stores have big sales on that day, including AliExpress.


Yup...11/11 is a big thing on Aliexpress. There are definitely great deals to be had. Lately though, I've noticed that there have been other sales taking place on Ali that are just as good. Only problem right now with Ali  is this damn COVID19 and problems with shipping. Depending on where you live in the world; shipping is gonna take alot longer now, due to coronavirus. If you need 
(?) it fast, then you're gonna have to spend more to get it faster from Amazon or other sites. You are also gonna have to take into consideration that you will have to pay extra and taxes/customs duties if you want faster shipping. If you're patient and willing to wait a bit longer to get your stuff, Aliexpress is the way to go


----------



## khighly

Z1 still having connectivity issues, honestly would pass if that bothers you. Its not always the same connectivity issue too, lots of bugs.

They do sound "KZ tuned", but it has a really big low end, too much so, and it's quite muddy. Overall, ok.

Lip on the charging case is too hard to open. IEM's have strong magnets and a very slick texture so it's hard to pull them out often. I do like the small size of the case however.

KZ can definitely do better.


----------



## Sebasistan (Jul 15, 2020)

Podster said:


> THX, sorry @Sebasistan  I've been tied up but raccoon has you covered. You'll hear plenty of chatter especially in Chi-Fi threads just before the date arrives You can bet a whole bunch on here are saving and reading reviews/post like crazy to do an order bomb when the sale hits


Ahh! I had no idea. Goes to show how little I know about Chinese culture (I'm trying to read up on it...). Thanks for clarifying!

Anyway, the ZSX were still on sale so I've pulled that trigger too. Added a silver cable as well. DAMMIT Aliexpress is dangerous.


----------



## malfario

Sebasistan said:


> Ahh! I had no idea. Goes to show how little I know about Chinese culture (I'm trying to read up on it...). Thanks for clarifying!
> 
> Anyway, the ZSX were still on sale so I've pulled that trigger too. Added a silver cable as well. DAMMIT Aliexpress is dangerous.



Welcome you and your wallet to the chi-fi rabbit hole!


----------



## Sebasistan

malfario said:


> Welcome you and your wallet to the chi-fi rabbit hole!



I backed out of wanting to upgrade my gaming PC, and was left with this... Desire to buy something cool. I guess chi-fi is my fallback option now. Do I *need* another pair of IEMs? Do all my IEMs *need* balanced cables? Those questions become kinda less relevant when you're talking about sub $100 items...


----------



## astermk

Hi everyone - first post here. I'm an (extremely) happy owner of a pair of ZS10 Pros, but there's pretty sweet sales on the CCA CA16 on AliExpress currently and I'm on the fence about upgrading and giving the ZS10 Pros away or selling them. Anyone own both that can compare how much of a gap there is, and the differences between the two? Thanks.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 15, 2020)

astermk said:


> Hi everyone - first post here. I'm an (extremely) happy owner of a pair of ZS10 Pros, but there's pretty sweet sales on the CCA CA16 on AliExpress currently and I'm on the fence about upgrading and giving the ZS10 Pros away or selling them. Anyone own both that can compare how much of a gap there is, and the differences between the two? Thanks.


Welcome!

ZS10 pro and CA16 are quite different.

ZS10 pro are amazingly cheerful, great with electronic music to my ears.

CA16 are smooth and fluent.

So you can opt to enjoy both or just be happy with ZS10 pro, since CA16 are not a direct upgrade, but a different recent achievement of CCA/KZ.

P. S. ZSX are more if a direct upgrade of ZS10 pro in term of refinement (but more refinement - less fun)


----------



## astermk

PhonoPhi said:


> Welcome!
> 
> ZS10 pro and CA16 are quite different.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the advice. Yeah, I suppose I'm looking for a somewhat different sound signature in these.

Would you say the CA16 are noticeably better/worse in any specific way?


----------



## Sylmar (Jul 20, 2020)

khighly said:


> Z1 still having connectivity issues, honestly would pass if that bothers you. Its not always the same connectivity issue too, lots of bugs.
> 
> They do sound "KZ tuned", but it has a really big low end, too much so, and it's quite muddy. Overall, ok.
> 
> ...


Indeed they need to improve. I do have the S1D and although it's very nice in sound when you do get a good fit, it doesn't really help that they offer only one kind of tips that are really too small. They need to improve on the bluetooth connection, battery life and allowing bigger tips. I'm sure they can do it.

Edit: I experimented a bit and the medium tips for the RHA Trueconnect fit.


----------



## PhonoPhi

astermk said:


> Thank you for the advice. Yeah, I suppose I'm looking for a somewhat different sound signature in these.
> 
> Would you say the CA16 are noticeably better/worse in any specific way?


ZS10 pro are very cheerful and energetic, prominent V. I really like them with electronic music.

CA16 are very fluent and fluid (if I can express it this way).

My best two compliments to CCA are: 

1) The DD is integrated smoothly with BAs (I do like all BAs a lot and CA16 are close in many aspects); 

2) At the same time, altogether the sound profile is the closest to a single-DD IEMs (from all the hybrids that I have), yet retaining some BA agility and sparkle in the upper mid and treble.

More BAs - definitely worked out better in CA16, sharper peaks of individual BAs are partially cancelled out.

CA16 are more universal, and in general would work for more people in their sound preference and listening preferences.


----------



## Sebasistan

Hm. Odd-ish observation on the much maligned AS16: I used them a lot with Comply foam tips, but now went back to the star-shaped original silicone ones, which are among maybe two kinds of silicone tips that I can actually bear. And I think the AS16 actually sound much better with silicone compared to foam. I mean, I'm aware that those materials have some impact on sound beyond isolation, but this is I think the first time I really recognize it...


----------



## Dobrescu George

This time I made a video full of jokes, humor, and fun stuffs. Also LOTS of complaining, so please take it as a trigger warning, KZ made a TWS IEM for 35 USD, and it couldn't be futher away from perfect. The good part is that I like the actual signature, and the comfort, but there's so much I dislike about it, it is funny. Feel free to watch the entire video to hunt for the memes and jokes, I promise it is worth it


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

PhonoPhi said:


> ZS10 pro are very cheerful and energetic, prominent V. I really like them with electronic music.
> 
> CA16 are very fluent and fluid (if I can express it this way).
> 
> ...



Hi, still waiting for CA16.  And really looking forward to a single-DD qualities ...
... hoping, that sharper peaks can be smooothed out with foam tips or a DAP filter selection.

Just ordered a second KZ AS12. I really love them for metal


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 18, 2020)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hi, still waiting for CA16.  And really looking forward to a single-DD qualities ...
> ... hoping, that sharper peaks can be smooothed out with foam tips or a DAP filter selection.
> 
> Just ordered a second KZ AS12. I really love them for metal


KZ certainly figured out bass with their double BAs.
I definitely prefer them at least to a single Knowles CI-22955.

AS12 are definitely most bass-prominent compared to C16 and AS16.
If you will ever be into more treble - you can experiment with the treble filter in AS12 (strong dampers they are!).

You may miss a bit of the bass in CA16 compared to AS12, but I hope you will like the gentle treble and the smoothness, so the foam tips may not be necessary (CA16 unlike other KZ and CCA need 4-mm ones).

Yesterday, I compared CA16 and AS16, the agility and sparkle of the latter is great to my ears (understandably, enhanced treble at 1-3 kHz is not for everyone, since I listen largely to classics - it works nicely).

P. S. Grammar editing


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ figure out bass for sure with their double BAs.
> I definitely prefer them at least to a single Knowles CI-22955.
> 
> AS12 are definitely most bass-prominent compared to C16 and AS16.
> ...



I like Bass and Mids on the AS12 most. Bass is the best I've ever heard from the BA driver. Mids are way less harsh compared to AS16, but still enough screamy to add necessary energy. And I can surely imagine more extended treble. How did you get to the shels?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 18, 2020)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I like Bass and Mids on the AS12 most. Bass is the best I've ever heard from the BA driver. Mids are way less harsh compared to AS16, but still enough screamy to add necessary energy. And I can surely imagine more extended treble. How did you get to the shels?


The treble filter is accessed through the nozzle by lifting the mesh (which sticks back nicely).
Master @Slater taught me this. He has very nice photos (if he does not chime in, I'll try to find them, I think it was in a CCA thread about C16).

Removing the treble filters in AS12 makes it a treble beast 

So you may want to start with puncturing and/or use your favourite dampening after.

I do think that finding your happy treble level (the strong treble BAs are there to moderate/tune) can make AS12 totally unsurpassed at $55 with those bass, mids and construction!


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> The treble filter is accessed through the nozzle by lifting the mesh (which sticks back nicely).
> Master @Slater taught me this. He has very nice photos (if he does not chime in, I'll try to find them, I think it was in a CCA thread about C16).
> 
> Removing the treble filters in AS12 makes it a treble beast
> ...


----------



## mikp

Any short cable for the zs10 pro, have a 40cm mmcx cable but cant find a short 2 pin cables.


----------



## jant71

mikp said:


> Any short cable for the zs10 pro, have a 40cm mmcx cable but cant find a short 2 pin cables.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...0o.store_home.productList_12878253.subject_17


----------



## purplesun (Jul 23, 2020)

Just started listening to kz-zstx 10 minutes ago. Even freshly out of the box, it's already showing some decent capabilities.

It's as if the tuner was targeting CCA C10's balanced sound signature with this bargain-basement IEM. Treble is still a bit unsettled, but mids & bass are mostly there with C10 with a touch bigger mid-bass hump. At this price, this should be good xmas stocking fillers. Setup used: Hiby R3 Pro, balanced out with TRN copper cable playing modern pop content.

Will let it run a few more days to see if the treble settles. Note: Am somewhat treble-sensitive (eg: I don't like zsn), so factor that into your own listening preference.

EDIT:
12 hours in - treble volume seem to be rising towards my comfort limit. More sibilant now.
36 hours in - treble has reduced significantly and it's now warm-sounding. Overall, it does a decent job but not much finesse in the sound. IMHO, it's alright for the price, but I don't think it will satisfy fussy trebleheads nor demanding users. That's it for my reporting!

One last thing: I removed the meshes with a needle (after the 36 hour test). And that made the ZSTx a bit brighter & more forward. Gives the music a bit more of a sparkle, I think this sound works for me.


----------



## Unolord

purplesun said:


> Just started listening to kz-zstx 10 minutes ago. Even freshly out of the box, it's already showing some decent capabilities.
> 
> It's as if the tuner was targeting CCA C10's balanced sound signature with this bargain-basement IEM. Treble is still a bit unsettled, but mids & bass are mostly there with C10 with a touch bigger mid-bass hump. At this price, this should be good xmas stocking fillers. Setup used: Hiby R3 Pro, balanced out with TRN copper cable playing modern pop content.
> 
> ...



I got through three albums with the ZSN Pro before I ordered the ZS10 Pro. That treble would trigger headaches for me. 

Right now though it's all about the CCA CA16 love for me.


----------



## moleface

I'm so disappointed - after excitedly watching my mailbox for two months, my new ZSX abruptly developed extreme bass distortion on the right side after only a month of light indoor use. I couldn't have logged more than twenty hours on these. 

I've had countless $5-10 Chinese IEMs over the years and they'd just develop shorts after half a year or so, but a driver would never just outright fail like this. I'm very disappointed, because I really liked how these sounded but there's no way I'm dropping more money on another ZSX that may fail in a matter of weeks. So I guess this is goodbye. 

I switched from the silver upgrade cable to the original and the distortion only got worse. You can hear the buzzing from a couple feet away.

I bought them the official KZ store on AliExpress. Is anyone here from the USA who's used their warranty? I'm assuming that it entails mailing them back to China at my expense. 

Are these known for poor QC, or did I just get unlucky? My ZSTs are still fine after four months.


----------



## Unolord

That sucks.


moleface said:


> I'm so disappointed - after excitedly watching my mailbox for two months, my new ZSX abruptly developed extreme bass distortion on the right side after only a month of light indoor use. I couldn't have logged more than twenty hours on these.
> 
> I've had countless $5-10 Chinese IEMs over the years and they'd just develop shorts after half a year or so, but a driver would never just outright fail like this. I'm very disappointed, because I really liked how these sounded but there's no way I'm dropping more money on another ZSX that may fail in a matter of weeks. So I guess this is goodbye.
> 
> ...


That sucks.

I have 5 diff sets of KZ products including the ZSX and aside from the crap battery life and weak BT connection on the KZ S2 they're all fine (knock on wood). 

The only real issue I've ever had in the short time I've bought Chi-Fi IEMs was with the Macaw GT600s from Drop. The sound in the left IEM was very faint. After seeing a comment on Drop recommending sucking on the ear tip because the driver had prob caved in I gave it a try and that solved the problem weird as it may sound.

I would contact the KZ store. Of course with the nightmare that is Covid shipping, sending them back and/or waiting for replacements will be brutal.

Two AExpress orders I made on May 1st just arrived in Canada on July 18....


----------



## Slater

moleface said:


> I'm so disappointed - after excitedly watching my mailbox for two months, my new ZSX abruptly developed extreme bass distortion on the right side after only a month of light indoor use. I couldn't have logged more than twenty hours on these.



Extreme bass distortion sounds like it could be the dynamic driver’s diaphragm is crinkled.


----------



## purplesun (Jul 21, 2020)

Unolord said:


> I got through three albums with the ZSN Pro before I ordered the ZS10 Pro. That treble would trigger headaches for me.
> Right now though it's all about the CCA CA16 love for me.


I'll probably get the CA16 at some point.

But I am well covered for now: CCA C10 has been my go to for just about any kind of music. While having BL03 for atmospheric stuff and watching TV (binging Westworld S3 + BL03 ) and CCA C16 (I call it my "stethoscope") is when I want to dig out tiny treble detail that nothing else can hear.

And, of course, I am also waiting for the mythical CCA C20 that was teased many months ago! Couple of us saw that web announcement and I/we still won't let it go 

EDIT:
Oops! Just realized I was off-topic for the entire post.
-  I use KZ AS10 when I want a bit of tube-like tonality in my music.
There, fixed it!


----------



## axhng

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268584207.html


----------



## PhonoPhi

axhng said:


> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268584207.html


An exciting development!
Now eagerly anticipated is a logical culmination of the series: ZSN Pro XXX (may come rated only for very mature audiophiles)


----------



## raccoon city (Jul 22, 2020)

The black looks good, but the gold looks gaudy in my opinion.
(I'm not a fan of the color gold in general.)
I'm glad KZ is coming out with more wired IEMs.


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268584207.html



They just implement the new 10mm XUN driver everywhere huh?

But the matte dark knight color option looked cool


----------



## axhng

PhonoPhi said:


> An exciting development!
> Now eagerly anticipated is a logical culmination of the series: ZSN Pro XXX (may come rated only for very mature audiophiles)



I'm waiting for ZSX Pro and of course ZSX Pro X!!! 



DynamicEars said:


> They just implement the new 10mm XUN driver everywhere huh?
> 
> But the matte dark knight color option looked cool



I'm not sure how different this will be compared to the ZST X though. it's like the same driver setup? Or will the metal nozzle have a noticeable change to the sound? but i'm probably not going to try and find out. shall wait for others to try first haha


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> I'm waiting for ZSX Pro and of course ZSX Pro X!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how different this will be compared to the ZST X though. it's like the same driver setup? Or will the metal nozzle have a noticeable change to the sound? but i'm probably not going to try and find out. shall wait for others to try first haha



Maybe no so v shaped tuning like zsn pro? (Not so v shaped in kz dictionary)


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> They just implement the new 10mm XUN driver everywhere huh?
> 
> But the matte dark knight color option looked cool



This dynamic looks different than the XUN.

The XUN is really just a space saving trick if you study the driver design closely. The top is funnel shaped, to make extra room for batteries or BAs etc in TWS and uber multi-BA earphones.

This driver looks like an actual performance change. Shortening the excursion should in theory make the bass faster (although moving less air).

Either way, the new color looks pretty hot so I went ahead and ordered one.


----------



## Unolord

Love the look of the matte black but I'll wait until November.

My CCA CA16 still has the new car smell, my ZSX just got detailed and the CVJ CSA got new rims.


----------



## moleface

Unolord said:


> That sucks.
> 
> That sucks.
> 
> ...




I've contacted the KZ store on AliExpress, and today they asked for a video of the problem. Hopefully the loud buzzing is audible in a recording.

At least they're offering a warranty claim, but this is gonna be a pain with COVID shipping times. My original ZSX order took over two months to arrive, so I'm probably looking at a 5-6 month turnaround, and I bet I'll be paying out of my pocket to send them back. 

I'll take KZ up on the warranty, but BLONs on Amazon are looking pretty good to me right about now.


----------



## moleface

Slater said:


> Extreme bass distortion sounds like it could be the dynamic driver’s diaphragm is crinkled.



Yeah, that's what I figured, but switching the cables actually made it way worse, so I'm starting to think it may be related to the 2 pin cable input on the IEM.

I wasn't expecting any difference in sound when I switched from the silver upgrade cable, but the stock ones sounded like the bass was noticeably heavier. Maybe that's why they made the issue even worse. Dunno.


----------



## Nimweth

So we can expect ZS10 Pro X, ZS7 X (that would be nice) and ZSXX next!


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> So we can expect...*ZS7 X* (that would be nice)



I would buy that in a heartbeat


----------



## purplesun

I think X is considered an inauspicious symbol in chinese lore. Maybe KZ's are having a laugh on us


----------



## rggz

I was almost buying the ZSN Pro X because of the looks as well, but double-checking the ad I saw this pic:







In this render picture, there's a gold nozzle and gold screw, which I think it's a bit tacky compared to the full black so I'll wait to see some IRL pics before buying it, and probably they'll give some discount later anyway.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

moleface said:


> I'm so disappointed - after excitedly watching my mailbox for two months, my new ZSX abruptly developed extreme bass distortion on the right side after only a month of light indoor use. I couldn't have logged more than twenty hours on these.
> 
> I've had countless $5-10 Chinese IEMs over the years and they'd just develop shorts after half a year or so, but a driver would never just outright fail like this. I'm very disappointed, because I really liked how these sounded but there's no way I'm dropping more money on another ZSX that may fail in a matter of weeks. So I guess this is goodbye.
> 
> ...



That sucks 

I have the ZSX and ZSN Pro and they're solid after a year or so.


----------



## Nimweth

Perhaps KZ could team up with Moondrop and we could have the KZ KXXXX!


----------



## gr33nhorn

i don't know why KZ doesnt do what the other chinese vendors do, and launch Mk/v1, v2, v3 or 2018, 2019, 2020 versions of established products


----------



## Unolord

rggz said:


> I was almost buying the ZSN Pro X because of the looks as well, but double-checking the ad I saw this pic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All the other pics show a black nozzle and screw. Maybe this was a mistake.


----------



## moleface

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> That sucks
> 
> I have the ZSX and ZSN Pro and they're solid after a year or so.



Yeah, I guess I just got unlucky. My ZSTs are holding up great, though they don't sound anywhere near as good as the ZSX.

This is the most I've paid for a "budget" IEM, and it just so happens to be my very first pair with a failed driver. It's disheartening and makes me hesitant to pay more than like $20 again for Chi Fi. 

Too bad, cuz I've been planning to eventually buy Moondrop Starfields, but QC for budget Chinese headphones seems pretty sketchy.


----------



## chinmie

moleface said:


> Yeah, I guess I just got unlucky. My ZSTs are holding up great, though they don't sound anywhere near as good as the ZSX.
> 
> This is the most I've paid for a "budget" IEM, and it just so happens to be my very first pair with a failed driver. It's disheartening and makes me hesitant to pay more than like $20 again for Chi Fi.
> 
> Too bad, cuz I've been planning to eventually buy Moondrop Starfields, but QC for budget Chinese headphones seems pretty sketchy.



Moondrop is one of the chifi companies that has tight QC and consistent tuning between their products, and i haven't found them secretly changing tuning/drivers on their existing lineup. usually they would just discontinue and make another product if they decide to change something. so I'd say if you decided to go for the moondrops it'll be a safe choice.


----------



## axhng

chinmie said:


> Moondrop is one of the chifi companies that has tight QC and consistent tuning between their products, and i haven't found them secretly changing tuning/drivers on their existing lineup. usually they would just discontinue and make another product if they decide to change something. so I'd say if you decided to go for the moondrops it'll be a safe choice.



Talking about changing things on their existing lineup, I just realised that for the KZ S1, they were using USB-C and later changed to microUSB. -_-


----------



## chinmie

axhng said:


> Talking about changing things on their existing lineup, I just realised that for the KZ S1, they were using USB-C and later changed to microUSB. -_-



and that's one of the changes that are plainly visible.. KZ has done many drivers or tuning changes in their past product.. which resulted in those V1, V2 reviews of the same lineup..and i doubt they're the only one that do that.


----------



## Assimilator702

Podster said:


> At this point you may as well wait for the 11/11 sales and clean house


The prices are not low enough to justify waiting until 11/11. 2018 was the last worthwhile 11/11 sale for anything other than cables. Even the recent summer sale was a letdown.


----------



## khighly

Anyone tried those BGVP hybrid electrostatic IEM's?

Also, new issues with KZ Z1, often the pins dont align making it so each earbud isnt charged, or one isn't charged. KZ is still in their infancy with BT, would recommend avoiding unless you want clearly beta products.


----------



## zachmal

khighly said:


> Anyone tried those BGVP hybrid electrostatic IEM's?
> 
> Also, new issues with KZ Z1, often the pins dont align making it so each earbud isnt charged, or one isn't charged. KZ is still in their infancy with BT, would recommend avoiding unless you want clearly beta products.



there are a few initial impressions and reviews on the BGVP thread already for the BGVP Zero:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bgv...d-new-ba-series.894331/page-317#post-15727066


----------



## mookid_

I've had some KZ ATR for the past couple years that I've really enjoyed, but looking to upgrade, perhaps to something with multiple drivers, but really don't want to spend more than $30-$40 since it'll be crammed into pockets and backpacks.

Currently looking at the ZS10 Pro, ZSTX, and ZSN Pro. Is the sound difference enough to justify going for the ZS10 Pro? Thanks!


----------



## whitete

I got the ZS10 Pro recently and like it a lot. I like it better than the ZSX really. The sound is similar but for me the ZS10 Pro fits better.


----------



## PhonoPhi

mookid_ said:


> I've had some KZ ATR for the past couple years that I've really enjoyed, but looking to upgrade, perhaps to something with multiple drivers, but really don't want to spend more than $30-$40 since it'll be crammed into pockets and backpacks.
> 
> Currently looking at the ZS10 Pro, ZSTX, and ZSN Pro. Is the sound difference enough to justify going for the ZS10 Pro? Thanks!


Your "top 3" choice here are:

1) ZS10 pro - cheerful and lively V-shape, great with electronic music;

2) ZSX - the next generation from ZS10 pro, a bit smooher and refined and more universal.
ZSX fits me better (without wearing something on top - the long protruding part is out there);

3) CCA C12 - the close relative of ZSX (the same drivers), if ZSX feel right but the fit may be of some concern. C12 shell is the same as the one of ZS10 pro, ZSN, etc.

One more to consider is CCA C10, if smoother sound is preferred.


----------



## courierdriver

whitete said:


> I got the ZS10 Pro recently and like it a lot. I like it better than the ZSX really. The sound is similar but for me the ZS10 Pro fits better.


Still my favorite go to, of all the iems I currently own.


----------



## khighly

Going from the Z1 to ZSX it's so noticeable how bad the bass is with that new Xun driver. I listen to a lot of bass house and the bass quantity on the Z1 is absolutely massive, too much, and I absolutely love me some bass. Very muddy too, any semblance of low mids get caught up in how thick the sub bass is. You could rattle the trunk of a hot wheels car with that thing. ZSX is on the bassy side but its detailed and balanced with everything else so nicely. 

Anyone know if KZ has improved the strength of the resin around their 2pin connector on the IEM's themselves? Mine is broken from using these probably hundreds of not thousands of hours now and I'm sad about it and worried that KZ has edited the sound signature like they did with the ZS6 (though I think the head-fi & youtube reviewer high frequency police caused this), so I really don't want to lose this pair.


----------



## Slater (Jul 27, 2020)

khighly said:


> Going from the Z1 to ZSX it's so noticeable how bad the bass is with that new Xun driver. I listen to a lot of bass house and the bass quantity on the Z1 is absolutely massive, too much, and I absolutely love me some bass. Very muddy too, any semblance of low mids get caught up in how thick the sub bass is. You could rattle the trunk of a hot wheels car with that thing. ZSX is on the bassy side but its detailed and balanced with everything else so nicely.
> 
> Anyone know if KZ has improved the strength of the resin around their 2pin connector on the IEM's themselves? Mine is broken from using these probably hundreds of not thousands of hours now and I'm sad about it and worried that KZ has edited the sound signature like they did with the ZS6 (though I think the head-fi & youtube reviewer high frequency police caused this), so I really don't want to lose this pair.



I don’t think the jack crumbling apart was a widespread problem. There were only a few reported cases of it.  Now that the Para C sockets have been out for a while, if the jacks were regularly falling apart en masse, I think it would be big news by now.

Your comments about the XUN driver are disappointing too, especially since that is new tech KZ is adding to more models than just the 1 TWS model. Hopefully it’s an isolated case of maybe 1 poorly performing QC pair, as opposed to a fundamental characteristic of the XUN driver in general. Because if that’s the case, it would be like taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back.


----------



## SaveTheMantaRays

What is your favorite replacement cables to
fit the ZSX and the ZS10 Pro ?

Preferably on Amazon U.S.


----------



## axhng

Slater said:


> I don’t think the jack crumbling apart was a widespread problem. There were only a few reported cases of it.  Now that the Para C sockets have been out for a while, if the jacks were regularly falling apart en masse, I think it would be big news by now.
> 
> Your comments about the XUN driver are disappointing too, especially since that is new tech KZ is adding to more models than just the 1 TWS model. Hopefully it’s an isolated case of maybe 1 poorly performing QC pair, as opposed to a fundamental characteristic of the XUN driver in general. Because if that’s the case, it would be like taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back.



For me the XUN drivers works better for TWS and maybe more budget models? I don't think it's that bad for the lower mids though, but personal preference and choice of music probably plays a part too. Having listened to Z1 and ZST X, I do think that resolution isn't particularly great. The improvement in detail retrieval that I hear on the ZST X feels like it's just thanks to the BA driver, and the low end just sound kinda the same in terms of resolution. But we've not seen them put this driver in higher end models though, so I don't want to jump to conclusions yet.


----------



## DynamicEars

Nothing wrong with all comments above as i have both of them, i can explain why @khighly perceived the new XUN driver is bad.
XUN new driver have good technicalities, better dynamic and tightness, a capable driver, with relatively fast decay too, and what i like is they are moving massive air literally (their marketing gimmicks said they have turbocharger something bla bla blah)
but the Z1 is tuning BADLY, overwhelming sub bass and mid bass, with mid bass bleed that muddying midrange, boosted trebles, a very bad very V shaped tuning.

so its not the driver fault, blame the tuning of Z1


----------



## gr33nhorn

is there a list of KZ's which have undocumented revisions? I have had enough of buying a KZ, and then finding out that a subsequent revision has made substantial changes which make it sound nowhere like the originals. 
First was the ZS1, and now its the ATE. Both had glowing reviews about their bass, but their subsequent versions seem to have neutered them.  Anything else i should watch out for?


----------



## Slater

gr33nhorn said:


> is there a list of KZ's which have undocumented revisions? I have had enough of buying a KZ, and then finding out that a subsequent revision has made substantial changes which make it sound nowhere like the originals.
> First was the ZS1, and now its the ATE. Both had glowing reviews about their bass, but their subsequent versions seem to have neutered them.  Anything else i should watch out for?



ATE actually had 5 (and I think 6) revisions! It was easily the KZ model with the most revisions.

KZ also just recently changed the cables many of their fixed cable models use.

Off the top of my head, there’s been sound tuning and/or driver revisions to at least the following

ZS1 (2 versions)
ATE (5-6 versions)
ED9 (2 versions)
ZST (2 versions)
ZS5 (2 versions)
ZS6 (3 versions)

I also seem to remember a revision to the ATR, but I could be wrong.

The list above doesn’t cover any cable, packaging, or accessory changes.

But in almost every case, KZ has made changes for the better. I don’t really see that as a bad thing.


----------



## gr33nhorn

Does this mean the current zs5/6 have bearable treble? The reviews said it was way too harsh


----------



## IEMusic (Jul 28, 2020)

SaveTheMantaRays said:


> What is your favorite replacement cables to
> fit the ZSX and the ZS10 Pro ?
> 
> Preferably on Amazon U.S.


I like this one.
https://www.amazon.com/Linsoul-Tripowin-Silver-Earphone-0-78-2-5mm/dp/B07ZQCDB76


----------



## Slater

gr33nhorn said:


> Does this mean the current zs5/6 have bearable treble? The reviews said it was way too harsh



I don’t know about the ZS5, but the ZS6 absolutely. I actually liked the ZS6, even thought it was way too much for some people. But assuming you get a ZS6 from fresh stock, then yes the treble is dialed way down compared to what it was.


----------



## Sebasistan (Jul 28, 2020)

My CCA CA16 arrived today. Which given the state of USPS right now quite surprised me. Ordered them barely two weeks ago.

First impression is... Huh. They have quite the punchy bass. Almost a bit too much. But while the bass can be a bit overbearing, it's not coming at the expense of the rest of the sound spectrum. It's weird, I had in-ears with similar punchiness before. But there a bass thump basically drowned out all the rest. Not with these. I will say tho that more straight up techno beats do become a bit tiring pretty quickly with those. Surprisingly, the smallest silicone tips that came with them actually fit my tiny, overly sensitive ear canals. So that's a welcome plus. After using the Starfield and the AS16 a lot, they do seem rather... Flimsy in terms of weight and build quality. They sound pretty good tho.

Overall they won't replace the Moondrop Starfield as my go-to all-rounder. But they're a nice addition for some specific genres. And they certainly sound more interesting than the AS16.

Now, I did get a 2.5mm balanced TRN cable with .75mm connectors for them that also arrived today. But I made the mistake of ordering one that lacks the... Sleeve? So now I worry that if I use them with that cable, a careless yanking might just break the connectors clean off. I did order a "sleeved" .75mm cable too after realizing my mistake. Guess I'll wait for that...


----------



## eaglesgift

Slater said:


> I don’t know about the ZS5, but the ZS6 absolutely. I actually liked the ZS6, even thought it was way too much for some people. But assuming you get a ZS6 from fresh stock, then yes the treble is dialed way down compared to what it was.


I liked the ZS5 (both versions). I still use them now and again.


----------



## axborn

#Z1
Been using Z1 for a month and love it. It has met my expectations of sound quality, usability, battery life (however little I expected ) but what I didn't expect is the static during songs. I get used to it after a while but if the songs starts/ends quiet or I switch from a different headset it's very noticeable. Have other owners also encountered this? I'm using an audiophilic music source (/s) combination of iPhone and Spotify with eq so maybe that could be at fault but I'm not noticing any static with other headphones :|


----------



## eclein

I really like the new CA16 myself. At first mine was bass light until I played it in for 10 or so hours then the Dynamic started really opening up but its like Sebasistan wrote above its not overbearing. Its definitely present and accounted for but doesn’t infringe on higher frequencies and the nice detail I can hear. I enjoy all the CCA iems I have, not a bad one in the bunch I don’t believe!


----------



## DynamicEars

axborn said:


> #Z1
> Been using Z1 for a month and love it. It has met my expectations of sound quality, usability, battery life (however little I expected ) but what I didn't expect is the static during songs. I get used to it after a while but if the songs starts/ends quiet or I switch from a different headset it's very noticeable. Have other owners also encountered this? I'm using an audiophilic music source (/s) combination of iPhone and Spotify with eq so maybe that could be at fault but I'm not noticing any static with other headphones :|



Took second read to understand your problem, but i think you are referring to hissing problem right? Hissssssssssss... Sounds during quiet track? Yes the Z1 have hissing problem, mine also very noticeable hissing. You are not alone.


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> I don’t know about the ZS5, but the ZS6 absolutely. I actually liked the ZS6, even thought it was way too much for some people. But assuming you get a ZS6 from fresh stock, then yes the treble is dialed way down compared to what it was.



I bought a ZS6 from fresh stock and they took the treble down enormously. The OG ZS6 with the amazing 'piercin' highs that the high frequency police hated is one I'm still looking to buy. Have never heard a soundstage so good.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> I bought a ZS6 from fresh stock and they took the treble down enormously. The OG ZS6 with the amazing 'piercin' highs that the high frequency police hated is one I'm still looking to buy. Have never heard a soundstage so good.



Agreed. I am not a fan of the new one, and much prefer the original one.

However, for those that are treble sensitive, the current ZS6 is definitely an option to consider.


----------



## gr33nhorn

Sebasistan said:


> Now, I did get a 2.5mm balanced TRN cable with .75mm connectors for them that also arrived today. But I made the mistake of ordering one that lacks the... Sleeve? So now I worry that if I use them with that cable, a careless yanking might just break the connectors clean off. I did order a "sleeved" .75mm cable too after realizing my mistake. Guess I'll wait for that...



Are you talking about QDC /C type connectors? click on the link which says "The difference between KZ/CCA's Para A, B, and C cables" in @Slater 's sig above


----------



## Sebasistan

gr33nhorn said:


> Are you talking about QDC /C type connectors? click on the link which says "The difference between KZ/CCA's Para A, B, and C cables" in @Slater 's sig above



Yeah, that. I have Para A, I need Para C.


----------



## gr33nhorn (Jul 30, 2020)

I got the KZ Z1, and its gone straight to the top of my list. It has ZS7 +amped+bass boost levels of bass - which is Exactly what i was looking for.
if only the highs were better - probably will need to wait for a hybrid version of it.
I know this sort of tuning gets a lot of flak around here, but it's what I love.
I will wait for the next revision where KZ will use a newer, stabler wireless chipset and a BA driver (and hopefully not reduce any of that monster bass - KZ- DO NOT LISTEN to the feedback for once and neuter this one like the ZS1 or ATE. The Average TWS user is more of a typical customer, and not an audiophile - people who want neutral tuning should probably cough up for the CX10 or something)


----------



## Mboom

Which iem has the smallest nozzle ? I had the zsr a few years ago but it wouldn't fit in my ear.


----------



## Slater

Mboom said:


> Which iem has the smallest nozzle ? I had the zsr a few years ago but it wouldn't fit in my ear.



You should look at Shure style shells. You can’t get any smaller than those nozzles.

Audiosense makes some nice IEMs in Shure style shells. Single dynamics, hybrids, all BAs.


----------



## baskingshark

Mboom said:


> Which iem has the smallest nozzle ? I had the zsr a few years ago but it wouldn't fit in my ear.



Westones have small nozzles.


----------



## genck

Mboom said:


> Which iem has the smallest nozzle ? I had the zsr a few years ago but it wouldn't fit in my ear.


If you use Comply's compatibility chart and look at the 100 core size, those are small, to give you an idea. 
ADVANCED Model 3 ALTEC LANSING® Bliss Gold, inMotion 616 & 617 AUDIOFLY™ AF Series: 100, 100C, 100W120, 140, 160, 180 BEYERDYNAMIC™ Byron BT, BTA BRAINWAVZ B2, B100, B150 CREATIVE Aurvana 2 DENON™ AH-C250, AH-C400 ETYMOTIC RESEARCH™ ER-4B, ER-4P, ER-4S, ER22-B2-A, Ety-8 Bluetooth, EtyBLU2, ETYMOTIC RESEARCH™ [CONTINUED] HF-2, HF-3, HF-5, MC-3, MC-5 FISCHER AUDIO DBA-02, DBA-02, mkll, TBA-04 FUTURESONICS™ Atrio Series (All) Spectrum Series G10 HARMAN KARDON® EP: 710, 720, 730 IFROGZ™ Ear Pollution, LUXE JAYS® D-Jays, Q-Jays®, 2nd Gen, S-Jays KLIPSCH® Custom 1, 2, 3; Image: e1, S3, S3m, S4, S4A, S4AII, S4i, S4iII, S4i, KLIPSCH® [CONTINUED] Rugged, S5i, X4i, X5, X6i, X7i, X10/ X10i, X11i, X12i, X20i, XR8i, ProMedia, Reference, S41, R6i LG® Tone HBS-1000, Tone HBS-1100 MEE AUDIO® A151 MICROSONICS Epic JC, Epic X NUFORCE™ HEM2, 4, 6, 8; HEM Dynamic, Primo 8, EDC3, EDC PHIATON® PS200 PHILIPS® SHE9850, 9900 ROCK IT SOUNDS R-20, R-30, R-50 SAMSUNG EHS71 SHURE® SCL3, SCL4, SCL5; SE Series: 110, 112, 115, 210, 215, 310, 315, 420, 425, 530, 535, 535LTD, 846 SCL3, SCL4, SCL5 SLEEK AUDIO™ SA6 SOUNDMAGIC™ PL-50 TDK™ BA100, BA200 TOUGH TESTED Jobsite, Marine ULTRASONE IQ, Pyco, TIO WESTONE® Adventure Alpha, AM Pro 10, 20, 30; UM: 1, 2, 3X; UM PRO: 10, 20, 30, 50; Westone 1, 2, 3, 4, 4R; W10, W20, W30, W40, W60, W80 YAMAHA™ EPH-M200 YASHIMA ME146 
https://www.complyfoam.com/content/ALL MODELS COMPATIBILITY CHART.pdf


----------



## Sebasistan

So the CCA CA16 are kinda growing on me. They're still not as universally nice as the Starfield, but they are a lot of fun. 
Funk really makes them pop (or vice versa). Bass guitar gets a lot to say here. Generally guitar music is quite enjoyable here I think. Rock, metal, the whole shebang.
Electronic music needs to be melodic with these. If I listen to more beat-centric techno, the bass becomes too much. 
They are a bit drony when it comes to ambient. 

All together, they're still more interesting to listen to than the KZ AS16, which to my ears are just TOO analytical. Many people complain the AS16 are too shouty in the treble section, that might be what I perceive as "analytical" - they have great instrument separation and all, but lack oomph. Where they do win on the CA16 is look and feel. But that's really not why I get IEMs. The Starfield look... demure in comparison to both, but feel as good as the AS16, due to the metal body. The CA16 feel cheapish and just too light. The flimsy cable doesn't help. Looking forward to putting that silver balanced TRN cable on them.


----------



## gr33nhorn

I am getting the craziest issue while streaming from windows 10 to my kz s2. The Pitch keeps shifting!!!! 
i verified it with a frequency analyzer app on my phone. I can see the 1khz tone switch to 980hz now and then. It makes music unlistenable! 
not sure if its a driver or a hardware problem.


----------



## TheVortex

Are the KZ ZS7 still worth buying in 2020?


----------



## RikudouGoku

TheVortex said:


> Are the KZ ZS7 still worth buying in 2020?


I dont think so. The bass is boomy, mids arent natural, treble is boosted and kind of sharp. Timbre is also bad, nothing special with technicalities.

You probably already heard something similar.


----------



## Nimweth

TheVortex said:


> Are the KZ ZS7 still worth buying in 2020?


Definitely. The ZS7 and BA10 are my two favourite KZs. Same BAs but ZS7 has DD bass driver, BA10 has the 22955 bass unit.


----------



## TheVortex

Thanks for the replies. Someone commented on my recent video that musicians really like these and they are around £24 on Ali.
I might grab a pair before they are gone forever.


----------



## RikudouGoku

TheVortex said:


> Thanks for the replies. Someone commented on my recent video that musicians really like these and they are around £24 on Ali.
> I might grab a pair before they are gone forever.


I wonder if kz has changed the ZS7 like they did with the ZS6 though...

(I have the first version of both.)


----------



## Light - Man

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont think so. The bass is boomy, mids arent natural, treble is boosted and kind of sharp. Timbre is also bad, nothing special with technicalities.
> 
> You probably already heard something similar.


Agreed!   ZS7 is Best avoided! The less said about them the better...........................


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> I wonder if kz has changed the ZS7 like they did with the ZS6 though...
> 
> (I have the first version of both.)



It is possible because I read that some are brighter sounding than others.
I presume anything available now are the later batches.

EDIT - A few conflicting reports hmmmmm.


----------



## RikudouGoku

TheVortex said:


> It is possible because I read that some are brighter sounding than others.
> I presume anything available now are the later batches.
> 
> EDIT - A few conflicting reports hmmmmm.


You already have a lot of kz stuff, better to use that money and try some other brand.

Heard good things about BQEYZ´s budget iems. There is a sale coming in like 2 days so good time to try them.


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> You already have a lot of kz stuff, better to use that money and try some other brand.
> 
> Heard good things about BQEYZ´s budget iems. There is a sale coming in like 2 days so good time to try them.



True and I have tried some BQEYZ stuff like the K2 and the KC2.
The KB100 does look interesting and the Spring 2 but way out of my price range as I might be losing my job.


----------



## RikudouGoku

TheVortex said:


> True and I have tried some BQEYZ stuff like the K2 and the KC2.
> The KB100 does look interesting and the Spring 2 but way out of my price range as I might be losing my job.


Ouch, better save your money then. The Moondrop SSP could be a great iem depending on how they tune it, so wait for that one instead.


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> Ouch, better save your money then. The Moondrop SSP could be a great iem depending on how they tune it, so wait for that one instead.



I will look at that one when it's available and I think I will skip the ZS7 as they are not consistent sounding.


----------



## Light - Man

TheVortex said:


> It is possible because I read that some are brighter sounding than others.
> I presume anything available now are the later batches.
> 
> EDIT - A few conflicting reports hmmmmm.


I would look elsewhere unless you are very curios and that you can return them.


----------



## RikudouGoku

TheVortex said:


> I will look at that one when it's available and I think I will skip the ZS7 as they are not consistent sounding.


sounds like a good choice.

If you got interested in it because you wanted to review it, I think that the jadeaudio EA1 is a great pick in this price range because you can use it in stock form for a more reference tuning and tape mod it for a more bassy and fun tuning.


----------



## Light - Man

TheVortex said:


> I will look at that one when it's available and I think I will skip the ZS7 as they are not consistent sounding.


Yes it could be that they have some random parts thrown in. I know that some well respected people really like them, so it is very hard to decide but for me it was a definite no!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Light - Man said:


> Yes it could be that they have some random parts thrown in. I know that some well respected people really like them, so it is very hard to decide but for me it was a definite no!


I liked them a lot when my collection only included the Xiaomi hybrids and the KZ ZS6. 

But definitely not anymore lol.


----------



## Slater (Aug 2, 2020)

Nimweth said:


> Definitely. The ZS7 and BA10 are my two favourite KZs. Same BAs but ZS7 has DD bass driver, BA10 has the 22955 bass unit.



I concur; one of the rare KZs with a 4 way crossover.

Be aware that some people confuse the ZS7 with the ED16, because it says “ZS7” right on the ED16 shell.




The ED16 is NOT the true ZS7. The REAL ZS7 is the blue and black aluminum one that looks like the ZS6 or the CA Andromeda.

That may be why there are conflicting comments on the ZS7...


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> True and I have tried some BQEYZ stuff like the K2 and the KC2.
> The KB100 does look interesting and the Spring 2 but way out of my price range as I might be losing my job.



KB100 is the best <$50 earphone BQEYZ has IMO.


----------



## Slater (Aug 2, 2020)

If you’re looking for something cheap and satisfying to by during the sale, give the <$15 NiceHCK X49 a try.


----------



## Slater

RikudouGoku said:


> I liked them a lot when my collection only included the Xiaomi hybrids and the KZ ZS6.
> 
> But definitely not anymore lol.



Once you taste dry aged filet mignon, it’s hard to like hamburger anymore.

KZ is like hamburger, but a nice juicy flavorful one with fresh toppings and baked bun. And that hamburger is a great value price.

You’ve moved up to a lot of higher end earphones, so a $30 one is usually isn’t going to sound good anymore when you’re used to $300+ earphones.

It’s not easy to prevent that bias. For example, the ED9 is a great $9 budget dynamic IEM, but is crap if I’m only used to earphones like Sony EX1000.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Slater said:


> Once you taste dry aged filet mignon, it’s hard to like hamburger anymore.
> 
> KZ is like hamburger, but a nice juicy flavorful one with fresh toppings and baked bun. And that hamburger is a great value price.
> 
> ...


Yes, of course depending on what you have, your opinions for each iems will be different. 

(although I still love my blon 03 , but that one is a rare anomaly)


----------



## gr33nhorn

I like the zs7 signature the most among kz range . It's the only one that comes close to warm and laid back. The treble is too hot for everything else. Only minus is that the shell design is slightly uncomfortable


----------



## Slater (Aug 4, 2020)

ZST Pro X Ultimate Unicorn Editon?





1DD+2BA


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> ZST Pro X Ultimate Unicorn Editon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is that? Since when KZ use mmcx?


----------



## Slater (Aug 4, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> What is that? Since when KZ use mmcx?



It’s Estron’s flagship, the Timmkoo (Estron’s retail brand) ES633.

You probably know them from their other offerings:

Estron/Timmkoo C610 (aka EMI CI-780)


Estron/Timmkoo C630 (aka EMI CI-880, also called “water drop”)


Estron/Timmkoo C631 (aka EMI CI-980)


Estron is a huge OEM/ODM. They design and make their own drivers (including BAs) in their own factories, and manufacture earphones for a lot of others. Their Timmkoo retail brand is really not pushed all that hard (at least not outside of China).

And if the “ZST” logo looks familiar, it should. In reality it was always “EST” not “ZST”.



I’m 100% absolutely convinced that KZ just made that up because the E kinda looks like a Z. I’m also 100% absolutely convinced that the original ZST was made for KZ by Estron. Right down the the blue plastic, which is identical to that used on the KZ ZST. KZ had no experience with hybrids at the time (as ZST was their entry into the hybrid market), and Estron did. That was also back before KZ had their own factory, and they farmed everything out to other companies.

Anyways, the EST is a couple of years old and not even available anymore, and I’ve been trying to get one for a long time now. It’s kinda a part of KZ history


----------



## Sebasistan

Oh hey my ZSX arrived! 

Taking them for a spin. Initial impression is positive, they're pretty crisp sounding with a nicely rounded bass that grumbles and rumbles along without getting in the way. Not as bassy as the CA16. More... Universal I would think. More bassy and less neutral than the Starfield. And generally more interesting sounding than the overly analytical (to my ear, I dunno, do people agree with this or am I using that term wrong) AS16.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> ZST Pro X Ultimate Unicorn Editon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the blue one got the nameplate inverted?


----------



## Slater (Aug 6, 2020)

chinmie said:


> the blue one got the nameplate inverted?



Yeah, a minor QC issue haha




I already removed them and put them back the correct way, so all is good now


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> Yeah, a minor QC issue haha
> I already removed them and put them back the correct way, so all is good now


No! Put it back - that makes it a rare collector's items. Like left-left C10s!


----------



## courierdriver

I'm in a quandary right now. Listening to my ZS10 PRO, and I still think these are my favorite iems. I reach for them most often. I'm torn between getting ZSX, CCA C12, or CCA CA16 as an upgrade. Based on the ZS10 PRO, I'm kinda thinking that I might be a KZ junkie/lover of their sound signature. At least, based on the ZS10 PRO. Anyone got any advice on my next KZ/CCA upgrade path? I'm really considering the CCA CA16 as my next move up the line, and skipping the ZSX.


----------



## courierdriver

courierdriver said:


> I'm in a quandary right now. Listening to my ZS10 PRO, and I still think these are my favorite iems. I reach for them most often. I'm torn between getting ZSX, CCA C12, or CCA CA16 as an upgrade. Based on the ZS10 PRO, I'm kinda thinking that I might be a KZ junkie/lover of their sound signature. At least, based on the ZS10 PRO. Anyone got any advice on my next KZ/CCA upgrade path? I'm really considering the CCA CA16 as my next move up the line, and skipping the ZSX.


PS- I've got many other iems from other manufacturers, so I don't want recs from other brands. Just looking for ZS10 PRO upgrade from KZ or CCA.


----------



## Turkleton

courierdriver said:


> PS- I've got many other iems from other manufacturers, so I don't want recs from other brands. Just looking for ZS10 PRO upgrade from KZ or CCA.



Some dude in the CCA thread posted this (below) about the CA16... Has me wondering as well huhu (and I just got my own ZS10 Pros 2 weeks ago haha)

vs ZS10 pro, treble are clear without sibilance, mid subtle, natural, bass faster than ZS10, no roll over, much more detailed. You will like the bass here, not overwhelming or bleeding over. Sound stage much wider, ZS10 pro is more congested.


----------



## PhonoPhi

courierdriver said:


> I'm in a quandary right now. Listening to my ZS10 PRO, and I still think these are my favorite iems. I reach for them most often. I'm torn between getting ZSX, CCA C12, or CCA CA16 as an upgrade. Based on the ZS10 PRO, I'm kinda thinking that I might be a KZ junkie/lover of their sound signature. At least, based on the ZS10 PRO. Anyone got any advice on my next KZ/CCA upgrade path? I'm really considering the CCA CA16 as my next move up the line, and skipping the ZSX.


ZS10 pro are special in many aspect, I can attest as a KZ/CCA aficionado.

CCA CA16 are quite different, with gentle highs (which is not exactly my thing), and a smooth DD-BA transition (which is really great and makes them shine for me).

C12 and ZSX are smoother as well. C12 are a bit closer to ZS10 pro with slightly more extended highs, and a touch more of mid-bass.

Upcoming CCA C10 X are more likely continue with "smooth highs", but possibly some surprises, since they are most closely related to ZS10 pro in their "genes".

After all one possible option is just getting another colour of your favourite ZS10 pro


----------



## Mouseman

courierdriver said:


> PS- I've got many other iems from other manufacturers, so I don't want recs from other brands. Just looking for ZS10 PRO upgrade from KZ or CCA.


If you want an upgrade from the ZS10 Pro (which I have and like ), I would suggest the ZSX. It does everything the 10s do, but better. Powerful bass, great Soundstage, but smoother in sound with better detail retrieval. The ZSX is the IEM that I go back to most often.


----------



## Richler

Hi, I'm new here. I lurked this thread years ago but haven't quite caught up with everything. Can someone recommend an upgrade for someone who's been using an ATR for a few years?


----------



## rggz

rggz said:


> I was almost buying the ZSN Pro X because of the looks as well, but double-checking the ad I saw this pic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Uff, it was just a render mistake, the ZSN Pro X is indeed full black.



I don't understand a word in Russian but you can see the housing, pretty good.


----------



## chinmie

Richler said:


> Hi, I'm new here. I lurked this thread years ago but haven't quite caught up with everything. Can someone recommend an upgrade for someone who's been using an ATR for a few years?



not a KZ product, but for something similar sounding to ATR, you might want to try the Blon BL03. the nozzles are shorter than the ATR though


----------



## Slater (Aug 7, 2020)

rggz said:


> Uff, it was just a render mistake, the ZSN Pro X is indeed full black.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand a word in Russian but you can see the housing, pretty good.




Man, those are WICKED looking in person. Even better looking than the marketing renderings.

I sure hope they sound as good as they look!

I can’t wait to get mine. They have been sitting at US customs at the moment, so hopefully they get released soon and sent on their way.

I like the look of them so much, I may even order another set just to use for shells for a project I’m working on.


----------



## courierdriver

PhonoPhi said:


> ZS10 pro are special in many aspect, I can attest as a KZ/CCA aficionado.
> 
> CCA CA16 are quite different, with gentle highs (which is not exactly my thing), and a smooth DD-BA transition (which is really great and makes them shine for me).
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm considering getting another colour of ZS10 PRO. I really want the one with the blue faceplate! Don't care too much about the shell colour, but sure wish I could find a set with the blue faceplate. Still think these are the most satisfying iems in my current collection; to my ears anyway. If I find a new KZ or CCA that gives me the same gratification as the ZS10 PRO, with a bit more soundstage and detail and air, I'd buy it. I like the bass just fine with the music I listen to on the ZS10 PRO. Only thing I have that comes close to the total experience I currently get with the ZS10 PRO is the TFZ No.3 with a SPC cable. I see several sets of iems I currently own, going up for sale very soon.


----------



## genck

courierdriver said:


> Yeah, I'm considering getting another colour of ZS10 PRO. I really want the one with the blue faceplate! Don't care too much about the shell colour, but sure wish I could find a set with the blue faceplate. Still think these are the most satisfying iems in my current collection; to my ears anyway. If I find a new KZ or CCA that gives me the same gratification as the ZS10 PRO, with a bit more soundstage and detail and air, I'd buy it. I like the bass just fine with the music I listen to on the ZS10 PRO. Only thing I have that comes close to the total experience I currently get with the ZS10 PRO is the TFZ No.3 with a SPC cable. I see several sets of iems I currently own, going up for sale very soon.


blue like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## courierdriver

genck said:


> blue like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


Yup...that's the one. Thanks for the link; but there is no feedback on the store you linked. I never buy from a store with no reviews or any past transactions. I'll check around a bit more on Aliexpress to find a more established seller. But thanks for the link anyway. If I were to re buy the ZS10 PRO again, that's definitely the colour I'd want.


----------



## genck

courierdriver said:


> Yup...that's the one. Thanks for the link; but there is no feedback on the store you linked. I never buy from a store with no reviews or any past transactions. I'll check around a bit more on Aliexpress to find a more established seller. But thanks for the link anyway. If I were to re buy the ZS10 PRO again, that's definitely the colour I'd want.


I clicked on the first I saw
KZ official store also has it: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## courierdriver

genck said:


> blue like this? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


Yup...that's the one. Thanks for the link; but there is no feedback on the store you linked. I never buy from a store with no reviews or any past transactions. I'll check around a bit more on Aliexpress to find a more established seller. But thanks for the link anyway. If I were to re buy the ZS10 PRO again, that's definitely the colour I'd want.


genck said:


> I clicked on the first I saw
> KZ official store also has it: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


Again, many thanks. I'm never very disappointed when I listen to my ZS10 PRO. My go to iem. If I get a set with the blue faceplate, I'd give my black shell/silver faceplate version to my musician buddy...along with a balanced 2.5mm upgrade cable and a brand new never used ES100 DAC/AMP. My favorite combo with this set.


----------



## Slater (Aug 9, 2020)

courierdriver said:


> Yup...that's the one. Thanks for the link; but there is no feedback on the store you linked. I never buy from a store with no reviews or any past transactions. I'll check around a bit more on Aliexpress to find a more established seller. But thanks for the link anyway. If I were to re buy the ZS10 PRO again, that's definitely the colour I'd want.





genck said:


> I clicked on the first I saw
> KZ official store also has it: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_



I too have been looking for the “Royal Blue” faceplate since before last 11.11. They are nowhere to be found.

Sure, plenty of listing photos SHOW the all blue faceplate. But when you try and order it there is no option for it. Instead, every listing has the “Glare blue“ color one instead (which came later and is different):




Basically, KZ made a very limited run of 100 Royal Blue ZS10 Pro and 100 Royal Blue ZSN Pro. 

I should have bought them the second they came out. They apparently both sold out within a short time


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I too have been looking for the “Royal Blue” faceplate since before last 11.11. They are nowhere to be found.
> 
> Sure, plenty of listing photos SHOW the all blue faceplate. But when you try and order it there is no option for it. Instead, every listing has the “Glare blue“ color one instead (which came later and is different):
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've been having the same experience as you. When you go into "colour options" on every seller's site on Aliexpress, this blue one is never available. It's a shame that KZ dropped that faceplate. I think it's the most attractive of all they offered for the ZS10 PRO, imho.


----------



## genck

Slater said:


> I too have been looking for the “Royal Blue” faceplate since before last 11.11. They are nowhere to be found.
> 
> Sure, plenty of listing photos SHOW the all blue faceplate. But when you try and order it there is no option for it. Instead, every listing has the “Glare blue“ color one instead (which came later and is different):
> 
> ...


I didn't notice that, nice catch


----------



## khighly

Just got moondrop starfield. Every IEM seems to be tuned nearly exactly the same 😂.


----------



## purplesun (Aug 10, 2020)

Messed around with my KZ AS10 cabling today and discovered that the right connector was slightly intermittent. Sometimes losing connection if I don't use a cable with a recessed lip. The only other cable that I have with a recessed lip was an ugly white cable I'd never used before. I think it's a cheap kz aftermarket cable and may have been advertised at silver-plated. Plugged it in & "eff me!"; it's like it added another pair of treble BAs! Lifting treble energy by quite a bit - which was a tad too tame for me on the stock cable. What a lucky find! Sadly, I can't remember where I got this cable from - for anyone who wants to give it a try on their AS10, here's the pics. Someone  should know it - looking @Slater 


Note for trebleheads:
Am treble-sensitive, so AS10 with this white cable likely still won't be bright enough for you. But if exquisite vocals & controlled bass slam is your cup of tea - this should do.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> Messed around with my KZ AS10 cabling today and discovered that the right connector was slightly intermittent. Sometimes losing connection if I don't use a cable with a recessed lip. The only other cable that I have with a recessed lip was an ugly white cable I'd never used before. I think it's a cheap kz aftermarket cable and may have been advertised at silver-plated. Plugged it in & "eff me!"; it's like it added another pair of treble BAs! Lifting treble energy by quite a bit - which was a tad too tame for me on the stock cable. What a lucky find! Sadly, I can't remember where I got this cable from - for anyone who wants to give it a try on their AS10, here's the pics. Someone  should know it - looking @Slater



That looks like one of the KZ silver upgrade cables they used to sell.


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> Messed around with my KZ AS10 cabling today and discovered that the right connector was slightly intermittent. Sometimes losing connection if I don't use a cable with a recessed lip. The only other cable that I have with a recessed lip was an ugly white cable I'd never used before. I think it's a cheap kz aftermarket cable and may have been advertised at silver-plated. Plugged it in & "eff me!"; it's like it added another pair of treble BAs! Lifting treble energy by quite a bit - which was a tad too tame for me on the stock cable. What a lucky find! Sadly, I can't remember where I got this cable from - for anyone who wants to give it a try on their AS10, here's the pics. Someone  should know it - looking @Slater


I found AS10 to be very source- and cable-sensitive. As low as to 0.5-0.8 Ohm, to my ears. 
So AS10 may work to "hear the difference" between TRN and NiceHCK silver cables.

I will try it when I am back from the wilderness of the Canadian North near the Lake Superior


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> I found AS10 to be very source- and cable-sensitive. As low as to 0.5-0.8 Ohm, to my ears.
> So AS10 may work to "hear the difference" between TRN and NiceHCK silver cables.
> I will try it when I am back from the wilderness of the Canadian North near the Lake Superior


I was gobsmacked at the shift in sound signature; I had to check that I did not mistakenly use another IEM!
More highs while still retaining some of the mids & bass of the factory cable. It's like I just received a new IEM in the mail!
Enjoy your walkabout!


----------



## khighly

I've been comparing the ZSX and Starfield for about 36 hours now and they are honestly very similar, but I'm likely going to make the Starfield my new DD and let me tell you why.

Both the ZSX and Starfield have a very similar sound signature, except the Starfield reach higher, and while the Starfield reach low like the ZSX, there's just overall less quantity of it. It's quite minimal difference, but that's the largest difference I've noticed sound wise. The KZ's are fun with big bass and the Starfield seem a bit more neutral but not by much. Both are similar in wide-ish soundstage and instrument separation, showing me single DD's can really perform. Both have no sibilance and no real negatives. Compared to my iBasso, they're both unbelievably ahead in every way. Both IEM's are incredibly good for their price and the best I've listened to.

The things that are making me switch: 

- The resin on my ZSX 2pin was weak and has already broken, which causes the IEM to lose connection often.

- The aesthetics. The Starfields are sexy.

- Comfort. These seal so well and are just cozy. They also sit flush with my ears.

- Build quality, Starfields are just heavy and feel so solid, the pins are recessed....I just cant beat this unless I go back to ZS6 or ZS7. This and aesthetics are really my primary reason.

 - Sound signature isn't really making me switch but the fact that it's just a small difference from my beloved ZSX, maybe Starfield barely taking the win, excites me. ZSX seems better for things like EDM or my Bass House.

Can't go wrong with either to be honest. Definitely still recommend ZSX and now the Starfield if you want to pay the premium.


----------



## Sebasistan

khighly said:


> Can't go wrong with either to be honest. Definitely still recommend ZSX and now the Starfield if you want to pay the premium.



I have both and to me the Starfield sound more... Colorful? If that makes sense? I'm not too adapt at the whole audiophile lingo. The Starfield have good bass, but are generally more neutral, while the ZSX are to my ears more bass heavy and "colder." Both are pretty great. Starfield are pretty much my go-to IEM right now.


----------



## Crandall

Sebasistan said:


> I have both and to me the Starfield sound more... Colorful? If that makes sense? I'm not too adapt at the whole audiophile lingo. The Starfield have good bass, but are generally more neutral, while the ZSX are to my ears more bass heavy and "colder." Both are pretty great. Starfield are pretty much my go-to IEM right now.


I feel like the Starfield presents acoustic instruments and vocals with better realism due to the lack of midrange spikes and better bass texture. The ZSX is much more fun to listen to for ambient/electronic music though with the extended and slightly elevated upper treble.


----------



## NeonHD

Hey guys I recently did a cool short unboxing video on the KZ ZS3E, feel free to check it out!

As for the IEMs themselves, well, let's just say the ZS3 is pretty bad in today's chi-fi standards. But 3 years ago I'm sure they would've been considered decent.

The only thing that isn't bad, however, is their incredible noise isolating ability. I've heard this from many people and I have to say it's true, these are literally earplugs! They definitely isolate well over 30db, maybe even more. So if you hate foam earplugs and need something else, get the ZS3! 

And if you want better sound quality then just go for the ZS4 and you'll basically have an earplug that plays music!


----------



## rayliam80

NeonHD said:


> Hey guys I recently did a cool short unboxing video on the KZ ZS3E, feel free to check it out!
> 
> As for the IEMs themselves, well, let's just say the ZS3 is pretty bad in today's chi-fi standards. But 3 years ago I'm sure they would've been considered decent.
> 
> ...




The ZS3's fit my ears _too well_. Any silicone tip that I tried that would fit me normally/comfortably with other IEMs would get stuck in my ear canal when I'd go to take them off. It required digging out the tip from my ear canal usually. No bueno. The nozzle on the ZS3 didn't have a lip and it was kind of a shame. I guess I could have used foams but I've always preferred silicone.


----------



## TheVortex

My take on the ZST X. Not much of a difference to be honest but the included cable is much better than before.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> Hey guys I recently did a cool short unboxing video on the KZ ZS3E, feel free to check it out!
> 
> As for the IEMs themselves, well, let's just say the ZS3 is pretty bad in today's chi-fi standards. But 3 years ago I'm sure they would've been considered decent.
> 
> ...




That’s basically what I use the ZS3E for - $8 earplugs that play music!


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> My take on the ZST X. Not much of a difference to be honest but the included cable is much better than before.




I’m kind of glad I skipped this one. Something told me it wasn’t really going to be anything special or really different from the ZST. I do like the new shell colors though.


----------



## unifutomaki

TheVortex said:


> My take on the ZST X. Not much of a difference to be honest but the included cable is much better than before.




Good to know - out of my cart they go 😜


----------



## khighly

Does anyone have a recommendation for a 2 pin cable that has a microphone that is actually decent and can be comfortably used for calls?


----------



## gr33nhorn

I use a bluetooth dac (fiio uBTR and ES100) with my it has a built in dac which is much better than most mics at this price point (and let me run my IEM's balanced while still letting me use mic)


----------



## hmscott (Aug 16, 2020)

hmscott said:


> I noticed the hiss when I first put the KZ S2's on, but now after hours of listening I don't notice it unless I am listening to albums recorded off of hissy tape or records - but then I hear that hiss with all of my IEM's and headphones.
> 
> *Update:* After listening to the first pair of KZ S2's for a few days I decided to break out the 2nd pair, and interestingly they started hissing like the first pair did initially, but after a while it goes away.  I've got 2 hours into the 2nd pair and the hissing is gone.  I just went back to conversational tracks that were hissing at first turn on of this pair of KZ S2's, and now the hissing isn't there.
> 
> ...


A quick update on the KZ S2's, and some surprising news - the KZ S2 Bluetooth connectivity issues with Windows 10 was a bug in the Windows 10 / Intel driver I had at the time.

I updated Windows 10 to version 2004 a few days ago and also got an Intel Bluetooth and Wifi update at the same time.

Now I've been listening to the KZ S2 for a few hours watching movies and youtube, and it has not had a single BT drop, hitch, crackle or otherwise anything but perfect audio.  A very nice surprise 

Also, I've found a Windows app "Bluetooth Tweaker" that queries the BT Codec info from Windows, what the device reports and what Windows Selected - what is currently connected:


Spoiler: BT Tweaker Screenshot





[CODEC#1 supported by device]
CODEC Type: SBC, Sampling Frequency: 16/32/44.1/48kHz, Channel Mode: Mono/Dual Channel/Stereo/Joint Stereo, Block Length: 4/8/12/16, Subbands: 4/8, Allocation Method: SNR/Loudness, Min/Max Bitpool: 2/48

[CODEC#2 supported by device]
CODEC Type: MPEG-2, 4 AAC, Object Type: MPEG-2 AAC LC/[MPEG-4 AAC LC]/[MPEG-4 AAC LTP]/[MPEG-4 AAC scalable], Sampling Frequency: [8]/[11.025]/[12]/[16]/[22.05]/[24]/[32]/44.1/48/[64]/[88.2]/[96]kHz, Channels: 1/2, VBR: supported, Bit rate: 0

[CODEC selected by Windows]
CODEC Type: SBC, Sampling Frequency: 44.1kHz, Channel Mode: Joint Stereo, Block Length: 16, Subbands: 8, Allocation Method: Loudness, Min/Max Bitpool: 2/48

[Delay reported by device]
180.0 mS


Bluetooth Tweaker has a trial period and then I paid $4.99 for it. The license file provided is tied to your Motherboard - when I updated my BIOS at the same time as Windows 2004 update, Gigabyte changed some of the ID info as part of the BIOS update and BT Tweaker stopped working, the developer was very quick to figure this out and give me and updated license file, and offered to do the same should Gigabyte do the same in the next BIOS update.

BTW, the Windows 2004 update was medium long and required several reboots, but it's been quiet and stable since.  And, don't forget to check for a BT / Wifi Update too, it might help KZ BT connections stability for you too. 

*Update: * Two situations for the KZ S2 still provide "drop out's", in the presence of a strong BT device it isn't connected to.

And, near the end of the KZ S2's battery run time I think the tuning might have used too low of a threshold to stay active to extend the usable run time a bit longer.

At about 10 minutes before the KZ S2 battery runs out completely it gets BT glitches.  It probably would have been better to drop those 10 minutes and close up shop earlier.

Other than that the BT performance is more than usable now, it's enjoyable.

Update: IDK why I didn't do this earlier, I had been running with the KZ special foam ring tips that came with the KZ S2's as a perk, and they do a substantially good job - good fit, right seal, they don't come off, but they are a bit uncomfortable eventually in long sessions - they "dry out" and itch a bit. Twirling them around in my ear solves that.

But why didn't I try the Sednafit Short's I've enjoyed so much on newer TWS's and IEM's on the KZ S2's before now?  I was having too much fun using them up on other IEM's and TWS's 

In short they fit great, sound great, and by using them across the board there isn't any acclimation between TWS's / IEM's, they all pretty much feel the same, while sealing well and sounding great.  More bass, and less outside noise gets in so I am hearing more detail.


----------



## darmanastartes

One plus of KZ focusing on TWS these days is fewer of KZ's terrible cables in the world.


----------



## hmscott (Aug 17, 2020)

darmanastartes said:


> One plus of KZ focusing on TWS these days is fewer of KZ's terrible cables in the world.


If it weren't for those "terrible cables" from KZ helping keep KZ IEM prices so low I wouldn't have discovered that Chifi IEM's were such great sounding products.

And, KZ's "terrible cables" helped motivate me to discover all of the great affordable 3rd party cables.  KB EAR for one are my price / performance favorites.  KB EAR and several other "inexpensive" cable brands available cost double the total cost of many of KZ's IEM's, which would have made KZ's IEM's "too pricey" to take a chance on them.

KZ's terrible cables were a great "product marketing idea".


----------



## unifutomaki (Aug 17, 2020)

hmscott said:


> If it weren't for those "terrible cables" from KZ helping keep KZ IEM prices so low I wouldn't have discovered that Chifi IEM's were such great sounding products.
> 
> And, KZ's "terrible cables" helped motivate me to discover all of the great affordable 3rd party cables.  KB EAR for one are my price / performance favorites.  KB EAR and several other "inexpensive" cable brands available cost double the total cost of many of KZ's IEM's, which would have made KZ's IEM's "too pricey" to take a chance on them.
> 
> KZ's terrible cables were a great "idea".



I think KZ's cables do the job they were made to do. There are more ergonomic, better looking and better built cables on the market, but they are good enough to get started with, especially for the new user.

Mind you, I own the EDR1, so I've been at the bottom of KZ's cable choice barrel myself


----------



## baskingshark

darmanastartes said:


> One plus of KZ focusing on TWS these days is fewer of KZ's terrible cables in the world.





hmscott said:


> If it weren't for those "terrible cables" from KZ helping keep KZ IEM prices so low I wouldn't have discovered that Chifi IEM's were such great sounding products.
> 
> And, KZ's "terrible cables" helped motivate me to discover all of the great affordable 3rd party cables.  KB EAR for one are my price / performance favorites.  KB EAR and several other "inexpensive" cable brands available cost double the total cost of many of KZ's IEM's, which would have made KZ's IEM's "too pricey" to take a chance on them.
> 
> KZ's terrible cables were a great "idea".





unifutomaki said:


> I think KZ's cables do the job they were made to do. There are more ergonomic, better looking and better built cables on the market, but they are good enough to get started with, especially for the new user.




Well I prefer aftermarket cables any day and the KZ cables usually go into the drawer ASAP. Though I think those new to the hobby and the lay public will just use the stock cable as it is.

These budget CHIFI have to cut costs somewhere, so accessories and packaging are usually the first area to be targeted. Honestly, I rather they put cuts at the accessories than the actual IEM/tuning, and luckily if we are in this hobby for a few months, we will probably know about cable rolling and have some aftermarket cables lying around somewhere to be used.


----------



## gr33nhorn

I don't get the hate for the KZ cables - the brown braided ones that come with the newer models are pretty decent. I've tried a bunch of aftermarket ones and not found much of a difference


----------



## jaydm99

I've been out of the chi fi game for the last 2 years. Now I'm kinda back and waiting in the mail for a ZST X...

I'm kinda interested on the ZSN PRO X as well and might get them next month. Is the Royal Blue color that much special for KZ models in the past? Cause I've been seing a couple of recent post regarding RB KZs.


----------



## seanwee

KZ cables are fine, y'all are just fussy. 

They are significantly better than the stock cables that came with my QDC neptune. Imagine my surprise when I wanted to use the "better" QDC cable on my ZSX and the sound ended up worse!


----------



## Slater

seanwee said:


> KZ cables are fine, y'all are just fussy.
> 
> They are significantly better than the stock cables that came with my QDC neptune. Imagine my surprise when I wanted to use the "better" QDC cable on my ZSX and the sound ended up worse!



The pure copper ZSN cable is still a steal for $3. It’s resistance is the same or lower than many fancy 8 and 16 core upgrade cables.


----------



## hyperderelict

*Need help with KZ ZS10 connection + Related*

H. I hope everyone is doing well in these crazy times. Please allow me to first apologise for the length of this post - I wanted to be sure that I didn’t miss anything. Anyway, I have a couple of questions and need your expertise, as I’m kinda new to the topic of IEMs, specifically “budget” ones. I have headphones - Sennheiser 650, 800\, AKGs etc. Long story short, regarding IEMs, I was introduced  to them  by way of “Budget“ brands: KZ, TFZ, etc. Since then I’ve owned  a few (listed below if it makes a difference). 

Personally, I really like the sound of the KZ ZS10 Pro. I‘ve had 3 of them: the black back with shiny front, followed by the glare yellow, and as I have on now, the glare blue. It’s not that I needed to buy 3 of them. The problem is that every version has a significant problem - the QDC type connector will fail. for Some reason, all of them also fail on the right one - I don’t understand why. I’ve been very careful, I’ve used stick cables as well as upgrades like the KB Ear 16-core that I’m using now.

I’ve paid close attention - especially with the glare yellow/blue -to see what’s wrong, what I could be doing wrong, and It seems that I’m doing the right thing, but regardless, they start to develop this problem, for reasons I don’t understand. I would carefully attach the cable, and I wouldn’t swap it out many times. But as I mentioned, the same problem happens, and as of posting this, it’s beginning to happen with the glare blues with lhe kbear cable (qdc).

Obviously I’m not an expert, but I can say that every One I’ve had, at first there was no problem. Then maybe on a month or so, the right side will just come off the connector. So I would put it back on. Then it will happen again, and I’d say by 2+ months, they cannot be reattached.

Just by looking, the “poles” seem to become very wide. Again I dunno why, and I dunno why it happens only to the right one - all three units, purchased at different times, have *identical* problems.

I understand that this is a “budget/low cos” IEM, and my expectations follow that, however this problem is so specific, that I wonder if anyone has had this happen. Due to the nature of my job and general way the world is now, I haven’t done a deep dive on this. I also want to say that i just really like the sound of the KZ ZS10 Pros.

I should have posted this earlier however that being said, I’ve wondered if this issue can’t be easily solved, my thoughts are:
1. Can I get the same sound with a different (better) connector?  I heard that many like KZ and CCA are similar - is this true? 

2. Could I in some way, modify it (like example, same IEMs,but with MMCX connector. I have some experience with electronics, but not a while lot. . 

3.  it help you guys if I took pictures of the connectors? Just think of the connection on the earphone side and amazing the holes are 2-3 times large

i have other questions in relating to true custom IEMs, but i rather just stay focused here, as those are the opposite of “Budget“.

In closing, thanks for reading this - as with any  help, anything that you think can educate me worh this would be _greatly_ appreciated. 

regards
Trevor

PS: Just realised that I had this iissue with the BLON... even the right side.

i will put this in my profile but as for now I’ll just list some of the IEMs I have

IEM and related list of Aug 18, 2020 

KZ ZSN, ZS10 Pro (x 3!), ZST Pro, ZST Pro X, ZS6
5.0 Bluetooth Wireless (Type C and Type B)

TRN V90, Wireless BT 4.1 Cable

TFZ: No. 3, S2 Pro

Tin Hifi: T2, T2 Plus

CCA CA16

SoundPeats Dudios (Zeus) + Later 5.0 TWS

Cables by ****, KB ear, Nicehk etc (8/16 core, 2-pins, QDC, etc)

tips: Spinfits, JVC Spiral Dots, Comply foam, Kz foam, KZ Vortex


----------



## Slater

hyperderelict said:


> *Need help with KZ ZS10 connection + Related*
> 
> H. I hope everyone is doing well in these crazy times. Please allow me to first apologise for the length of this post - I wanted to be sure that I didn’t miss anything. Anyway, I have a couple of questions and need your expertise, as I’m kinda new to the topic of IEMs, specifically “budget” ones. I have headphones - Sennheiser 650, 800\, AKGs etc. Long story short, regarding IEMs, I was introduced  to them  by way of “Budget“ brands: KZ, TFZ, etc. Since then I’ve owned  a few (listed below if it makes a difference).
> 
> ...



I would say that your KZs are suffering from the 'crumbling Paragraph C' socket issue a few people have reported. But you say the same thing is happening to your Blons too. So that tells me the problem is something else. Maybe something you're doing?

Maybe you could post a picture and it would perhaps help determine what the problem could be caused by?


----------



## khighly

hyperderelict said:


> *Need help with KZ ZS10 connection + Related*
> 
> H. I hope everyone is doing well in these crazy times. Please allow me to first apologise for the length of this post - I wanted to be sure that I didn’t miss anything. Anyway, I have a couple of questions and need your expertise, as I’m kinda new to the topic of IEMs, specifically “budget” ones. I have headphones - Sennheiser 650, 800\, AKGs etc. Long story short, regarding IEMs, I was introduced  to them  by way of “Budget“ brands: KZ, TFZ, etc. Since then I’ve owned  a few (listed below if it makes a difference).
> 
> ...


Mine is also the right side that has essentially 'shattered'. I much prefer the recessed connector.


----------



## Slater

khighly said:


> Mine is also the right side that has essentially 'shattered'. I much prefer the recessed connector.



I agree, the recessed connector (A and B) worked perfectly fine for years.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's what I always say!

Knock on wood though, I've never had any problems with any of my Paragraph C sockets falling apart.


----------



## purplesun

hyperderelict said:


> Personally, I really like the sound of the KZ ZS10 Pro. I‘ve had 3 of them: the black back with shiny front, followed by the glare yellow, and as I have on now, the glare blue. It’s not that I needed to buy 3 of them. The problem is that every version has a significant problem - the QDC type connector will fail. for Some reason, all of them also fail on the right one - I don’t understand why. I’ve been very careful, I’ve used stick cables as well as upgrades like the KB Ear 16-core that I’m using now.


Seems to be a similar issue that I had with my KZ AS10's intermittent right  connector recently. The ZS10's socket/plug & crossover PCB look similar to AS10 as well. The thing I found out that works with my AS10 is; the plug's plastic lip must sink into AS10's body for reliable connection. I can only speculate that the socket's solder joint requires the support of the plug lips. It's a real PITA but, imho, it's always work-in-progress with these cheaper IEMs.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I agree, the recessed connector (A and B) worked perfectly fine for years.
> 
> If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's what I always say!
> 
> Knock on wood though, I've never had any problems with any of my Paragraph C sockets falling apart.


Yeah, my ZS10 PRO connector also has not shattered, but recently I experienced the same problem as the dude who said his wire was falling out of his iem. I've only swapped cables 3 times since I owned my current set. Thing is, even if you can find a balanced 2.5mm upgrade cable (like I always use), chances are that even if you can find with the Paragraph C/ QDC connectors, it's usually only in .78mm, not the .75mm that KZ and CCA use. While the .78mm will work, I think that the slightly larger pins may stretch out the connectors on the iems themselves a bit. If it happens again, I will try to gently splay the pins on my Tripowin Zonie balanced cable, to achieve a more secure connection. Hopefully that will solve the problem. Again, I haven't had the problem of the actual connector on the iem breaking or shattering.


----------



## Sebulr

I've never had this happen. I have broke a pin into my kz zsr using a non standard cable without the recessed part or the mould to protect it. I have also had a few that have loosened up a bit so that they fall off a bit too easily. This can be remedied by carefully bending the pins on cable outwards, with a small screwdriver. And I mean CAREFULLY. 

Is sweat disentegrating the plastic on the socket housing or something? I love my glare blue zs10 pros.


----------



## Slater

Sebulr said:


> I've never had this happen. I have broke a pin into my kz zsr using a non standard cable without the recessed part or the mould to protect it. I have also had a few that have loosened up a bit so that they fall off a bit too easily. This can be remedied by carefully bending the pins on cable outwards, with a small screwdriver. And I mean CAREFULLY.
> 
> Is sweat disentegrating the plastic on the socket housing or something? I love my glare blue zs10 pros.



I don’t know what the cause is, but it seems like almost every day someone else is posting about the paragraph C sockets falling apart


----------



## raccoon city

Slater said:


> I don’t know what the cause is, but it seems like almost every day someone else is posting about the paragraph C sockets falling apart


I'll have to be extra careful with my KZ ZSX and paragraph C socket.


----------



## Slater

raccoon city said:


> I'll have to be extra careful with my KZ ZSX and paragraph C socket.



Yeah I’m paranoid now. I ordered a few spare QDC sockets in case I ever need to do a repair.


----------



## jaydm99

Does the ZSN PRO/X suffer the same issue? They use C cables right?


----------



## Slater

Jay Magaling said:


> Does the ZSN PRO/X suffer the same issue? They use C cables right?



No one has ever really sat down and researched the models it affects to see if there’s a pattern.

I mean, since KZ uses the exact same paragraph C socket for a whole bunch of earphones, I don’t see why it would crumble apart on 1 model but not others. So my gut is that it is the specific plastic they are using on ALL of the paragraph C sockets.

Either that, or the common themes might be the people who are using 3rd party cables. Perhaps the 3rd party cables are putting extra stress on the paragraph C sockets that the stock cable does not.

Or, again it might be people using 3rd party cables, but only 0.78mm cables. Maybe that tiny extra bit of make 2-pin thickness spreads out the 0.75mm female sockets juuuuust enough that they develop stress fractures. And those stress fractures get bigger in time, developing into full blown cracks and chunks of plastic eventually falling off.

Again, we just don’t know. It’s gone from a few isolated and anecdotal cases to more and more complaints about it. Something is definitely going on though, *it just may be something the owners are doing and NOT a KZ QC issue.*

Maybe as we collect more data from those affected, we can piece together the puzzle.


----------



## Makahl (Aug 18, 2020)

rayliam80 said:


> The ZS3's fit my ears _too well_. Any silicone tip that I tried that would fit me normally/comfortably with other IEMs would get stuck in my ear canal when I'd go to take them off. It required digging out the tip from my ear canal usually. No bueno. The nozzle on the ZS3 didn't have a lip and it was kind of a shame. I guess I could have used foams but I've always preferred silicone.



I've had this same issue. However, it was pretty simple to fix it. I just needed to mix some epoxy and with a toothpick I made a circle around the nozzle and let it dry out for 10 minutes sitting on a piece of blutack. I heard you can use heat-shrink too but epoxy seems more durable for a permanent fix.







Now I can fit all my tips and they lock onto the nozzle rather secure. Btw, I got a Moondrop SSR and it has the same smooth nozzle which leads to this same issue but I'm not willing to do this mod for a pricier model, I just sold it lol.


----------



## Leo-rume

I'm a bit confused about something. Was the zs10 pro ever revised?

The first image shows the driver configuration for the ZS10 pro. The second is for the CCA C10. If I remember correctly, when the ZS10 pro was released, the driver placement in the shell was basically the same as that of the C10 in the 2nd picture with the only difference being that for the ZS10 pro, both 30095 BAs were placed in the nozzle and both 50060 BAs further back in, while the C10 had a 30095 + 50060 BA config in the nozzle and same set up further back in. I just noticed this ZS10 pro configuration (1st picture) in the product images with only one 30095 BA in the nozzle and the other much further back in the shell and was surprised. Is this new or has it been this way for a while now or has it always been this way and I'm just nuts.


----------



## Nimweth (Aug 19, 2020)

ZS7 + Spiral Dots + this cable, Magic!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B086JJXQ86?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


----------



## Sebulr

Leo-rume said:


> I'm a bit confused about something. Was the zs10 pro ever revised?
> 
> The first image shows the driver configuration for the ZS10 pro. The second is for the CCA C10. If I remember correctly, when the ZS10 pro was released, the driver placement in the shell was basically the same as that of the C10 in the 2nd picture with the only difference being that for the ZS10 pro, both 30095 BAs were placed in the nozzle and both 50060 BAs further back in, while the C10 had a 30095 + 50060 BA config in the nozzle and same set up further back in. I just noticed this ZS10 pro configuration (1st picture) in the product images with only one 30095 BA in the nozzle and the other much further back in the shell and was surprised. Is this new or has it been this way for a while now or has it always been this way and I'm just nuts.


My zs10 Pro has only 1 ba in the nozzle. I know this because I took the grills off, and put a small bit of foam into the nozzle to dampen the ba in the nozzle. Mine are about 11 months old and are glare blue. Also the crossover is up against the top of the shell not over the dynamic driver like in that picture. 
No idea about the cca c10.


----------



## purplesun

Sebulr said:


> My zs10 Pro has only 1 ba in the nozzle. I know this because I took the grills off, and put a small bit of foam into the nozzle to dampen the ba in the nozzle. Mine are about 11 months old and are glare blue. Also the crossover is up against the top of the shell not over the dynamic driver like in that picture.
> No idea about the cca c10.


Both my C10s (bought few months apart) has 2 BAs in the nozzle. I think the new C10 Pro (in pictures) may have only 1 BA in the nozzle like your Z10 Pro. But no one has received C10 Pro yet to verify that.


----------



## Slater

Received the ZSN Pro X today:


----------



## Nimweth

I have been A-B'ing the ZS7 against the CCA CA16. Very interesting. The CA16 is smooth, open and natural, but somewhat laid back, a very relaxing listen. The ZS7 is like pulling back a curtain and being at a live performance and sounds almost larger than life. I used a Hifi Hear 16 core cable on the ZS7 and a 16 core TRN one on the CA16. This was the piece of music I chose:


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> I have been A-B'ing the ZS7 against the CCA CA16. Very interesting. The CA16 is smooth, open and natural, but somewhat laid back, a very relaxing listen. The ZS7 is like pulling back a curtain and being at a live performance and sounds almost larger than life. I used a Hifi Hear 16 core cable on the ZS7 and a 16 core TRN one on the CA16. This was the piece of music I chose:




You know, I’ve honestly been very hard pressed to find a KZ I like better than the ZS7.

Granted, I haven’t tried everything KZ makes, including supposedly better models such as the ZSX, C12, CA16, etc. But the fact remains that I haven’t really tried those because I haven’t felt the *need* to. The ZS7 ticks pretty much every box of what I like about KZs.

Sure, there’s a few things I’d change, but nothing is perfect. I keep telling myself to order a backup set (since I only have 1 pair) before they are gone forever, but I coupon have sworn someone said KZ changed the tuning so it scared me off.

Does anyone know if that is accurate or not? Did the ZS7 (not ZS6) tuning change for 100% fact?


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> You know, I’ve honestly been very hard pressed to find a KZ I like better than the ZS7.
> 
> Granted, I haven’t tried everything KZ makes, including supposedly better models such as the ZSX, C12, CA16, etc. But the fact remains that I haven’t really tried those because I haven’t felt the *need* to. The ZS7 ticks pretty much every box of what I like about KZs.
> 
> ...


Yes, only the BA10 comes close for me, that's a little more forward overall and the BA bass has a faster sound. The ZS7's mids are glorious, perhaps it is the 31005 BA doing that. The ZS7 is better integrated with the DD bass giving just a bit of extra warmth. I love it!


----------



## TheVortex

I really want the ZS7 now lol. At least I have The C10 Pro ordered and the BGVP Zero arrived today. Also ordered the BQEYZ BQ3.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> I really want the ZS7 now lol. At least I have The C10 Pro ordered and the BGVP Zero arrived today. Also ordered the BQEYZ BQ3.



Bear in mind that the shell of the ZS7 is the same as the ZS6. I find it perfectly comfortable, but some people didn’t like it. Also, having an open back it isn’t super isolating. So if you’re planning on wearing it on the train or around people, you may want to reconsider.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> Bear in mind that the shell of the ZS7 is the same as the ZS6. I find it perfectly comfortable, but some people didn’t like it. Also, having an open back it isn’t super isolating. So if you’re planning on wearing it on the train or around people, you may want to reconsider.



I won't wear it that publicly so no problem and I had the ZS6 and the shape did not put me off.


----------



## Slater (Aug 19, 2020)

TheVortex said:


> I won't wear it that publicly so no problem and I had the ZS6 and the shape did not put me off.



OK. And in general, do you like the sound tuning of the ZS10 Pro? Because the ZS7 is similar (but not exactly the same), as the ZS7 has more low end extension.

I mention it because some people really dislike the ZS10 Pro due to the small bump in upper mids.

But it’s a $30 KZ, not a $300 mid-fi super duper wonder IEM. As long as you are realistic in your expectations, you will almost certainly be happy with the ZS7.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> OK. And in general, do you like the sound tuning of the ZS10 Pro? Because the ZS7 is similar (but not exactly the same, as the ZS7 has more low end extension.
> 
> I mention it because some people really dislike the ZS10 Pro due to the small bump in upper mids.
> 
> But it’s a $30 KZ, not a $300 mid-fi super duper wonder IEM.



I have the ZS10 Pro and the sound signature was fine for the price and like you said they are $30 and not $300.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> I have the ZS10 Pro and the sound signature was fine for the price and like you said they are $30 and not $300.



Then you will be quite happy with the ZS7, I assure you


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Then you will be quite happy with the ZS7, I assure you


I've been reading the past few posts about the ZS7. I've been reading alot about them for well over a year, in fact. I was worried about the fit for a long time, but not anymore ( I have a set of Fearless Lancelot...these are the hugest iems I've ever tried to stick in my ears; and while they do stick out more than my favourites, they still fit well, so I no longer fear the shells of the ZS7). I just put a set in my Aliexpress  cart for around $41 CDN. I've had the urge to get another new set of iems (gawd, this hobby is a wallet sucker) but I'm gonna take the plunge on these. I totally love my ZS10 PRO and I put them at the top of my list of all my iems. Yet, I'd still like a bit more bass and better, warmer, more forward mids. My second favourite is the TFZ NO.3. Hoping that the ZS7 will dethrone that. I've been searching relentlessly for the past year for an iem that will satisfy me for less than $100 CDN. I recently got the YBF-ISS014; and while I don't dislike it, I feel my ZS10 PRO and TFZ No.3 are both superior. I think that, given how much I enjoy the ZS10 PRO sound signature, I want to have the ZS7 in my collection. ZSX, CCA C12, CA16, CA10 be damned...I'm compelled to try out the ZS7. So many great things have been said about this set, that I feel like I'd be doing myself a disservice if I continue to ignore it any longer. And at about half the price of some of newer sets, it's right in my price range. One more week till I get paid and I'm getting the ZS7.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> I've been reading the past few posts about the ZS7. I've been reading alot about them for well over a year, in fact. I was worried about the fit for a long time, but not anymore ( I have a set of Fearless Lancelot...these are the hugest iems I've ever tried to stick in my ears; and while they do stick out more than my favourites, they still fit well, so I no longer fear the shells of the ZS7). I just put a set in my Aliexpress  cart for around $41 CDN. I've had the urge to get another new set of iems (gawd, this hobby is a wallet sucker) but I'm gonna take the plunge on these. I totally love my ZS10 PRO and I put them at the top of my list of all my iems. Yet, I'd still like a bit more bass and better, warmer, more forward mids. My second favourite is the TFZ NO.3. Hoping that the ZS7 will dethrone that. I've been searching relentlessly for the past year for an iem that will satisfy me for less than $100 CDN. I recently got the YBF-ISS014; and while I don't dislike it, I feel my ZS10 PRO and TFZ No.3 are both superior. I think that, given how much I enjoy the ZS10 PRO sound signature, I want to have the ZS7 in my collection. ZSX, CCA C12, CA16, CA10 be damned...I'm compelled to try out the ZS7. So many great things have been said about this set, that I feel like I'd be doing myself a disservice if I continue to ignore it any longer. And at about half the price of some of newer sets, it's right in my price range. One more week till I get paid and I'm getting the ZS7.



Don’t worry about the ZS7 being too big...it’s quite small. I can post a shell comparison if you want. What do you want to see, the ZS7, ZS10 Pro, and No 3 all next to one another?


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Don’t worry about the ZS7 being too big...it’s quite small. I can post a shell comparison if you want. What do you want to see, the ZS7, ZS10 Pro, and No 3 all next to one another?


Oh, yeah bro! If you could show that, it'd be much appreciated! Since you have all 3, would you mind also giving your sound impressions on how they compare to each other? I know you like the ZS7 alot. Aside from bass, what does this iem do better or different, compared to the TFZ No.3 and ZS10 PRO?


----------



## unifutomaki

Slater said:


> Received the ZSN Pro X today:



Those shells look super slick. Mind if I ask what the model ears are for? 😅


----------



## Slater

unifutomaki said:


> Those shells look super slick. Mind if I ask what the model ears are for? 😅



I got them with the intent of building an accurate head model for headphone measurements and tuning. Since headphones are designed to interact with the anatomy of the outer ear, it is critical that a dummy head is used that has ears.


----------



## roylan667

Hi,

I am currently looking at iem from KZ or anything else (<100 usd) with similar DD like Z1 (10mm DD). Tried KZ4 with 8mm DD but the sound is a bit off compared to Z1. Not sure due to BT compression of Z1 or driver itself. I feel like I want to break open Z1 and DIY the cable. Battery now has degraded so much within these few months, barely last 30mins on one side.


----------



## DynamicEars

roylan667 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am currently looking at iem from KZ or anything else (<100 usd) with similar DD like Z1 (10mm DD). Tried KZ4 with 8mm DD but the sound is a bit off compared to Z1. Not sure due to BT compression of Z1 or driver itself. I feel like I want to break open Z1 and DIY the cable. Battery now has degraded so much within these few months, barely last 30mins on one side.



Z1 is a very v shaped  tuned TWS, but tthe driver is good. If you like about the impact, you can try TFZ no 3, or little brother of them , THe TFZ T2 Galaxy, or maybe that KZ ZS7 ( I dont have ZS7 but seems like have great bass too)


----------



## Tonymac136

roylan667 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am currently looking at iem from KZ or anything else (<100 usd) with similar DD like Z1 (10mm DD). Tried KZ4 with 8mm DD but the sound is a bit off compared to Z1. Not sure due to BT compression of Z1 or driver itself. I feel like I want to break open Z1 and DIY the cable. Battery now has degraded so much within these few months, barely last 30mins on one side.



KZ ZST X I believe has the same XUN driver, coupled with a BA. Overall I find it has a similar sound to the Z1 but tuned slightly more natural sounding.


----------



## whitete

Need some help here. I’m getting the TRN BT20S to fit my ZS10. First, does anyone know if the BT20 Pro is worth the extra $?  Second, do I need the .75mm or the .78mm?  I’m not sure how they are different. Thank you!!


----------



## Tonymac136

whitete said:


> Need some help here. I’m getting the TRN BT20S to fit my ZS10. First, does anyone know if the BT20 Pro is worth the extra $?  Second, do I need the .75mm or the .78mm?  I’m not sure how they are different. Thank you!!



Firstly I believe KZ to be 0.75 - there's suggestion that using the 0.03mm bigger aftermarket cable causes the cracked connector issue.
I've not got any experience of the BT20 or Pro so I can't advise on that, I would urge perhaps considering getting better IEMs to pair with the wireless cable. The non-Pro ZS10 is the IEM that got me down the rabbit hole, but so many newer IEMs are so much better. But hey, it's your money and they're your earphones... If you're happy with the ZS10 then that's fine too


----------



## whitete

Tonymac136 said:


> Firstly I believe KZ to be 0.75 - there's suggestion that using the 0.03mm bigger aftermarket cable causes the cracked connector issue.
> I've not got any experience of the BT20 or Pro so I can't advise on that, I would urge perhaps considering getting better IEMs to pair with the wireless cable. The non-Pro ZS10 is the IEM that got me down the rabbit hole, but so many newer IEMs are so much better. But hey, it's your money and they're your earphones... If you're happy with the ZS10 then that's fine too
> [/QUOTE
> 
> That’s great advice. Thank you.  To be honest, this is for my wife. I bought the ZS10 by accident and don’t like them at all!  She just listens to podcasts so I thought they would be ok for her.


----------



## Slater (Aug 20, 2020)

whitete said:


> That’s great advice. Thank you. To be honest, this is for my wife. I bought the ZS10 by accident and don’t like them at all! She just listens to podcasts so I thought they would be ok for her.



Just out of curiosity, has she tried to fit them in her ears yet (whether with the wires attached or no wires at all)? Because the regular (non-Pro) ZS10 is pretty big, and it may not even fit her comfortably.

Just a thought...


----------



## whitete

Slater said:


> Just out of curiosity, has she tried to fit them in her ears yet (whether with the wires attached or no wires at all)? Because the regular (non-Peo) ZS10 is pretty big, and it may not even fit her comfortably.
> 
> Just a thought...


Good idea. I’ll have her try them. She has small ears so they may not work.


----------



## baskingshark

whitete said:


> Need some help here. I’m getting the TRN BT20S to fit my ZS10. First, does anyone know if the BT20 Pro is worth the extra $?  Second, do I need the .75mm or the .78mm?  I’m not sure how they are different. Thank you!!



The TRN BT20S Pro is now out on Drop and Aliexpress at about $60ish, depending on coupons and store. The normal BT20S (non Pro) is going at about $25 during the upcoming Aliexpress 24/08/20 sales. The BT20S Pro adds a charging case and a detachable module for 2 pin/MMCX options. But I saw that the detachable modules are sold separately, and it is about $8 or so for a separate module. 

So if u add a $60ish BT20S pro + a $8 module, that is close to 70 bucks! Most of us are interested in the BT20S Pro cause of the charging case and the option to swap modules for 2 pin or MMCX IEMs, but does that justify a $45 mark up? Personally I find it a bit too pricey at $70, but as per most things in the hobby, the release prices will drop after a few weeks. Except for rare occasions like the Urbanfun YBF which went from $39 -> $60ish USD after it got hyped to the moon (infamous Urbanfun QC issues and driver doubt aside).


----------



## Sebasistan

baskingshark said:


> the upcoming Aliexpress 24/08/20 sales.



Question about this from someone fairly new to the whole Chifi game: is that sale event (and I guess the 11/11 thing) something you should set your alarm clock for, i.e. is there like a Black Friday rush and if you're not fast everything's sold out? Or is that... Chill? Got my eyes on a few items and would like to be prepared. 8)


----------



## baskingshark

Sebasistan said:


> Question about this from someone fairly new to the whole Chifi game: is that sale event (and I guess the 11/11 thing) something you should set your alarm clock for, i.e. is there like a Black Friday rush and if you're not fast everything's sold out? Or is that... Chill? Got my eyes on a few items and would like to be prepared. 8)



The biggest sales on Aliexpress so far that I've seen are on 11/11, Black Friday, and their Anniversary sale (sometime in June/July). There are smaller sales sprinkled throughout the rest of the year, with not as good deals/coupons.

Stuff usually isn't sold out actually from my experience. Or even if it is, they have a lot of stores that are owned by the same owner but under different names, so they just get stock from another place to cater to your order. I've ordered closed to 200 items on Aliexpress and only once have they told me the item was out of stock (TRI I3), and I had to wait while they make more of it. But some unscrupulous Aliexpress sellers sometimes cheat the buyers, by claiming to have processed your order and stall you or ship it our with a fake tracking number, I have encountered that in about 10% of my purchases, so best u only purchase from shops with > 97% rating and read the feedback, and don't buy from brand new shops with no feedback.

A big way to get more substantial discounts is via using coupons. They give out some lame "Select" coupon, which requires a minimum spend and only can be used for certain items. The good coupons to get are the Aliexpress coupons which can be used storewide. U can get these coupons by playing their lame games on the app, they usually give out some for free a few days before sales, or u can also use coins to exchange for it (coins can be earned by playing games or visiting the app).

I compiled a list of good deals for the upcoming 24/08/20 Aliexpress sales here if u are interested:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-2114#post-15812515

Sorry about your wallet in advance!


----------



## Leo-rume

The dream finally coming true guys. A new KZ single dd. Type B connectors too from the looks of it.


----------



## astermk

I was wondering, could the slowing down of KZ wired releases have something to do with them experimenting with planar and electret drivers behind the scenes?
"Exotic" types of drivers like those (as well as CNT or DLC dynamics, which KZ is also yet to adapt) have been the latest technological breakthrough in budget and mid range IEMs, but KZ hasn't jumped on them yet.

Knowing KZ's everlasting tendency to try to stand out on hardware specs for the money, I wouldn't be surprised if they come out with some crazy tribrid or even quadbrid (what even is the proper term for that?) for some stupid low price. I hope they're doing *something* at least because they've just been doing minor refreshes of ages old IEMs and underwhelming TWS sets for like a year and a half now.


----------



## jaydm99

Got my ZST X. Just noticed that the out of the box cable doesn't have metal wires anymore on the ear guide. Guess there's no reason me to peel them off.


----------



## Slater

Leo-rume said:


> The dream finally coming true guys. A new KZ single dd. Type B connectors too from the looks of it.



Wow, haven’t seen am ED series in a while. Looks great!


----------



## unifutomaki

Leo-rume said:


> The dream finally coming true guys. A new KZ single dd. Type B connectors too from the looks of it.



I am strangely drawn to this. Can't get enough of single DDs.


----------



## Slater

So I’ve been listening to the ZSN Pro X a lot this week, and the treble is a bit too sharp and fatiguing for me.

I did the ZST foam mod to the BA in the nozzle, and now it’s WAY better. Totally enjoyable. It did take me 2 tries to get the size of the foam just right. My first try dampened too much treble.

Unfortunately, I can’t find my original ZSN Pro, so I cant compare the sound of the ZSN Pro to the ZSN Pro X to see if it’s changed. Obviously, the X faceplate has changed and a SPC cable is included. But I just don’t know if the tuning has changed.

Regardless if it’s the same or changed though, the X is still too piercing for me without the foam mod.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 21, 2020)

Slater said:


> So I’ve been listening to the ZSN Pro X a lot this week, and the treble is a bit too sharp and fatiguing for me.
> 
> I did the ZST foam mod to the BA in the nozzle, and now it’s WAY better. Totally enjoyable. It did take me 2 tries to get the size of the foam just right. My first try dampened too much treble.
> 
> ...


I agree, for most people the treble would feel too sharp.
For me X feels just too much v-shape, so far I like CA4 (with its "W" shape, as some put) more.

I got my ZSN pro X today, it was ~$16 in E-bay, and fast shipping (under 3 weeks), but the seller sent me black instead of golden  and with mic instead of no mic (a bonus, I guess), I am about to give up my ChiFi ordering with few recent experiences 

The origibal cable is quite decent (reminds of a KZ silver upgrade cabke), but I found Nicehck pure silver working quite nicely, (the cable overshadowing IEM in all aspects), and its relative high impedance works OK with X.

How did you find the new DD?
That would be the main/only claim to fame for X.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> I agree, for most people the treble would feel too sharp.
> For me X feels just too much v-shape, so far I like CA4 (with its "W" shape, as some put) more.
> 
> I got my ZSN pro X today, it was ~$16 in E-bay, and fast shipping (under 3 weeks), but the seller sent me black instead of golden  and with mic instead of no mic (a bonus, I guess), I am about to give up my ChiFi ordering with few recent experiences
> ...



I actually really like the DD in the X. I was thinking about removing the BA and crossover altogether, and just using it as a 1DD earphone. I haven’t decided yet. I’m going to wait and see what the EDX sounds like before I decide what to do. I love the ZSN style shell, and would really love just one with a 1DD. Perhaps I’ll convert one of my original ZSN (non-Pro), as I have a few of them.


----------



## DynamicEars

Is the new DD is the same with Z1 ? if yes they are very capable driver, just in Z1 they tuned sooooo vshape


----------



## TheVortex

Another upcoming release and I have no further info on it but I presume it is related to the CCA CA16


----------



## Nimweth

TheVortex said:


> Another upcoming release and I have no further info on it but I presume it is related to the CCA CA16


Ah. So ZSX wasn't the Terminator then!


----------



## TheVortex

Nimweth said:


> Ah. So ZSX wasn't the Terminator then!



The Terminator got terminated!


----------



## RikudouGoku

TheVortex said:


> Another upcoming release and I have no further info on it but I presume it is related to the CCA CA16


Faceplate looks pretty weird with all the vents on it....wonder how much the isolation will suffer because of it.


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> Faceplate looks pretty weird with all the vents on it....wonder how much the isolation will suffer because of it.



It probably won't isolate much at all but we will see when these are out in the wild and people give their impressions of them.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> Faceplate looks pretty weird with all the vents on it....wonder how much the isolation will suffer because of it.



as long as the sound is great, I'd still be interested on this. i kinda like open vented IEMs


----------



## Nimweth

chinmie said:


> as long as the sound is great, I'd still be interested on this. i kinda like open vented IEMs


Yes. The soundstage should be good.


----------



## DynamicEars

High chance they are only shell design with another layer full blocking the driver not real vents but if that is real semi open design, count me in


----------



## axhng

DynamicEars said:


> Is the new DD is the same with Z1 ? if yes they are very capable driver, just in Z1 they tuned sooooo vshape



Agree with this. Still amazed by the Z1 after months of owning it. Previously i felt like it is a very capable driver, but detail retrieval wasn't amazing. But I was comparing it to like wired options that I have like the ER4XR. It is still above average for TWS. Also that was just on default EQ which i most just use while jogging and want a bit more oomph. But otherwise most of the time for daily use or easier jogs, i have it on an EQ that looks something like this, and with this EQ it is extremely enjoyable for me. Sounds a bit more transparent, but still fun. Though for some that upper mids might probably still be a bit much since i tend it prefer slightly elevated. These are probably my most used audio gear alongside some earbuds that I have for home use. CCA CX10 went back in the box after I was done with them. Don't even use the Haylou GT1 Plus much anymore after I got these. The fit for jogging is one of the better ones I've used just behind the creative outlier air. Comfortable, minimal thumping sound from footsteps, and the loud and fun sound. The only thing is of course just the abysmal battery life. when new it was 2 hours of use. now it's more 1-1.5hours at most. But they are also pretty cheap these days. on online shopping sites here in SG they are going for like 35SGD, which is around 25USD. If by the time my Z1 dies and they still don't have a good replacement i might just grab another one just for jogging. So if the EDX is using the same driver (but hopefully with better tuning), it could be great if it's priced cheap enough. Though not sure if i would get one. Don't particularly like using IEMs that are worn over ear most of the time as the ear hooks are a hassle to deal with for me since I wear glasses with ear hooks already. :/


----------



## DynamicEars

axhng said:


> Agree with this. Still amazed by the Z1 after months of owning it. Previously i felt like it is a very capable driver, but detail retrieval wasn't amazing. But I was comparing it to like wired options that I have like the ER4XR. It is still above average for TWS. Also that was just on default EQ which i most just use while jogging and want a bit more oomph. But otherwise most of the time for daily use or easier jogs, i have it on an EQ that looks something like this, and with this EQ it is extremely enjoyable for me. Sounds a bit more transparent, but still fun. Though for some that upper mids might probably still be a bit much since i tend it prefer slightly elevated. These are probably my most used audio gear alongside some earbuds that I have for home use. CCA CX10 went back in the box after I was done with them. Don't even use the Haylou GT1 Plus much anymore after I got these. The fit for jogging is one of the better ones I've used just behind the creative outlier air. Comfortable, minimal thumping sound from footsteps, and the loud and fun sound. The only thing is of course just the abysmal battery life. when new it was 2 hours of use. now it's more 1-1.5hours at most. But they are also pretty cheap these days. on online shopping sites here in SG they are going for like 35SGD, which is around 25USD. If by the time my Z1 dies and they still don't have a good replacement i might just grab another one just for jogging. So if the EDX is using the same driver (but hopefully with better tuning), it could be great if it's priced cheap enough. Though not sure if i would get one. Don't particularly like using IEMs that are worn over ear most of the time as the ear hooks are a hassle to deal with for me since I wear glasses with ear hooks already. :/



I'lI share you my EQ later (i did mod too actually) and i was EQing with IEC711 coupler clone measurement, trial and error method. They sounded great now.


----------



## Slater

When you guys are talking about how much you like the sound of the Z1, are you talking about the dynamic version of the Z1, or the hybrid version? I see 2 different ones listed on Aliexpress.


----------



## axhng

Slater said:


> When you guys are talking about how much you like the sound of the Z1, are you talking about the dynamic version of the Z1, or the hybrid version? I see 2 different ones listed on Aliexpress.



I think some sellers are just lumping them together with the S1 and S1D which is hybrid and single DD respectively. AFAIK Z1 only has a single DD version?


----------



## DynamicEars (Aug 22, 2020)

Slater said:


> When you guys are talking about how much you like the sound of the Z1, are you talking about the dynamic version of the Z1, or the hybrid version? I see 2 different ones listed on Aliexpress.





axhng said:


> I think some sellers are just lumping them together with the S1 and S1D which is hybrid and single DD respectively. AFAIK Z1 only has a single DD version?



Right Z1 is 1 driver only, 10mm XUN DD. That can be possibly same DD used in ZST X and ZSN Pro X (X stands for XUN?)

Like @axhng said, seller sometimes put Z1 together with S1 (hybrid 1 6mmDD +1BA) and S1D (single 6mm DD not XUN tech) and they have 1 page altogether, they put Z1 as an option like color option, sure make confusion here.

Edit:
@Slater in case you misinterpreted, i don't like the Z1 tuning, too v shaped (ill post the FR graph later), but i hear potential with the driver (fast, tight, move a lot of air, dynamic, have very good technicalities including very good wide soundstage and nice imaging) but they need to "total retune"


----------



## Dave Drums

TheVortex said:


> Another upcoming release and I have no further info on it but I presume it is related to the CCA CA16


Wow - thanks for the heads up @TheVortex  - this promo picture isn't even on the KZ Facebook page yet! 
I follow your reviews  
What with all the hype over the CCA CA16's I'm sure I'm not the only one eager to see how they perform in comparison. 
This is the one I'm eager to hear about in amongst all the other recent KZ releases.
Likely the same driver spec as CA16.
Last point of reference is ZSX + C12 - CCA pushed the highs a little more and KZ was more scooped mids. 
CCA did more mellow treble on CA16 
It's going to be super interesting to learn how KZ tune these...
My guess says they will also feature tame highs but with a slight elevation in the low end ala ZSX over C12.
Interested to hear others ZAX sound signature predictions!


----------



## genck

ZS10 Pro army unite, they sound so good. I hadn't listened to them in months.


----------



## DynamicEars (Aug 23, 2020)

AS promised, this is the FR of KZ Z1, but the method a bit different from my usual measurement because this is TWS so a bit hassle if i need to unpair, and repairing with my PC and then using different EQ with my phone, so this done with TWS connected to my LG V40, run pink noise instead of sine sweep, result isnt as smooth as using sine sweep, so smoothen out with ERB, accuracy maybe lower than my normal measurement but we still get the roughly big picture. Done on IEC711 coupler clone with apple dongle and measure with REW, same rig with Crin's.

*Red* *line*  on FR is KZ Z1 default tuning, its very V shaped as I said earlier, very obvious V shape even from the very start i plugged them into my ears, and that sub bass is shaking your head with 10mm DD XUN tuned  with +14db on sub bass level, but mind that 6khz drill with +15db attack.
Short story, the Z1 is very very V shaped IEM.

So I did simple mod, they dont have any dampers behind the grill, i just take out the grill put in soft sponge (black color) as I did on BLON thread, just a little cut there roughly 5mm length and EQ them. I did several EQing and measured them, and finally found this setting to be most suited me. I would like to get 3-4khz up a little bit but EQ band wont allow me to, so currently this is my best EQ setting and the result is there with *yellow line*

Here my EQ from my LG V40 setting if you want to try but bear in mind, im using soft density sponge mod to tame the high mid peaks there so they become smoother.


Does it sounded nice now? yes, with their capable driver, the driver is fast, with very good technicalities, wide soundstage, good details (not their strength), very good imaging. At least a little step up from BL-03 in terms of technicalities. And what i like is they push a lot of air, i can feel it, yet they are fast in bass.

Would I recommend them? NO, as TWS they have bad batt life, not so good connection in range (not on and off), decreasing batt life in time by user reviews (I have yet to test the batt life), occasional hiccups when batt goes low, and bad tuning at start unless you want to do a little mod and EQ them. OH yeah, edited : the hiss.. its pretty bad.
Suggestion to KZ, to improve the tech side, then retune them. The driver has great potential.


note : using xelastec tips because a bit difficult to find great seal eartips that can fit with the case


edit : typo


----------



## Slater

genck said:


> ZS10 Pro army unite, they sound so good. I hadn't listened to them in months.



ZS10 Pro, reporting for duty, sir!


----------



## astermk

genck said:


> ZS10 Pro army unite, they sound so good. I hadn't listened to them in months.


My first pair of proper audio gear! ****ing love them. Only thing that bothers me is a slight lack of treble sparkle and the tiny soundstage, but super capable otherwise.
The right one just HAD to die before the CA16 arrive, though. It might be the cable. I hope it is.


----------



## chinmie

i like the ZS10 Pro sound so much, all this talk about it makes me really considering to repurchase it


----------



## genck

chinmie said:


> i like the ZS10 Pro sound so much, all this talk about it makes me really considering to repurchase it


Do it


----------



## trumpethead

genck said:


> ZS10 Pro army unite, they sound so good. I hadn't listened to them in months.



I've gotta dig mine out.. I loved them initially but too many new ones came right after and they kinda got pushed to the back of the line...


----------



## FutureLegend70

Been out the game for a while but picked up the Zs10 Pro yesterday, like I need more iems, these things aren't what I was expecting 
Quite shrill on the treble and very fatiguing no matter what tips I used. 
Also found they hurt after a short period of time, not a fan of this new pointy design. 
Still not a match for my As10, or the original Zs10 actually. 
Have a pair of the zsn pro x coming tomorrow in gold. Fingers crossed.


----------



## unifutomaki

FutureLegend70 said:


> Been out the game for a while but picked up the Zs10 Pro yesterday, like I need more iems, these things aren't what I was expecting
> Quite shrill on the treble and very fatiguing no matter what tips I used.
> Also found they hurt after a short period of time, not a fan of this new pointy design.
> Still not a match for my As10, or the original Zs10 actually.
> Have a pair of the zsn pro x coming tomorrow in gold. Fingers crossed.



For whatever reason I've found the edge of the ridges on the ZSN Pro faceplate to cause a bit of pain on the upper section of my outer ear after some time. Hope you have better luck with them than I do!


----------



## FutureLegend70

unifutomaki said:


> For whatever reason I've found the edge of the ridges on the ZSN Pro faceplate to cause a bit of pain on the upper section of my outer ear after some time. Hope you have better luck with them than I do!


I got you, think I prefer the more rounded design of the older version,versions....


----------



## rayliam80

genck said:


> Do it



I'm hoping to be reunited with my ZS10 and ZS10 Pros and the rest of my iem/headphone collection next month. 😔


----------



## Slater (Aug 23, 2020)

FutureLegend70 said:


> Have a pair of the zsn pro x coming tomorrow in gold. Fingers crossed.



It sounds like you’re very treble sensitive, as the original ZS10 has always been described as dark. And you posted on the Blon thread that the BL03 has harsh and sibilant treble (which wow that’s the first time I’ve ever heard the BL03 described like that).

So if the ZS10 Pro and BL03 are too much for you, I have some really bad news about the ZSN Pro X....


----------



## genck

Slater said:


> It sounds like you’re very treble sensitive, as the original ZS10 has always been described as dark. And you posted on the Blon thread that the BL03 has harsh and sibilant treble (which wow that’s the first time I’ve ever heard the BL03 described like that).
> 
> So if the ZS10 Pro and BL03 are too much for you, I have some really bad news about the ZSN Pro X....


I agree, he should *not* try the jade audio EA3 if he thinks the BLON 03 is sibilant. LOL


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> It sounds like you’re very treble sensitive, as the original ZS10 has always been described as dark. And you posted on the Blon thread that the BL03 has harsh and sibilant treble (which wow that’s the first time I’ve ever heard the BL03 described like that).
> 
> So if the ZS10 Pro and BL03 are too much for you, I have some really bad news about the ZSN Pro X....


I concur about ZSN pro X.

CCA CA16 is perhaps gentler in treble than BL03 (I was enjoying the treble of the latter recently - amazing for a single DD under $25)


----------



## FutureLegend70

Slater said:


> It sounds like you’re very treble sensitive, as the original ZS10 has always been described as dark. And you posted on the Blon thread that the BL03 has harsh and sibilant treble (which wow that’s the first time I’ve ever heard the BL03 described like that).
> 
> So if the ZS10 Pro and BL03 are too much for you, I have some really bad news about the ZSN Pro X....


Funnily enough I love treble, especially in my Ety's, so it's not that.
Could be my ears as they're very difficult to get a seal on a lot of universals. 
Sometimes a sandbox fill of tips doesn't help 😁


----------



## FutureLegend70

FutureLegend70 said:


> Funnily enough I love treble, especially in my Ety's, so it's not that.
> Could be my ears as they're very difficult to get a seal on a lot of universals.
> Sometimes a sandbox fill of tips doesn't help 😁


And to be on the safe side I've cancelled the Pro x and maybe going for a Cca C10 instead. Hope that's OK to mention here.


----------



## TheVortex

FutureLegend70 said:


> And to be on the safe side I've cancelled the Pro x and maybe going for a Cca C10 instead. Hope that's OK to mention here.



That's fine and bear in mind there is a CCA C10 Pro out and I have one on the way.


----------



## FutureLegend70

TheVortex said:


> That's fine and bear in mind there is a CCA C10 Pro out and I have one on the way.


Absolutely, they're actually on my wish list


----------



## TheVortex

FutureLegend70 said:


> Absolutely, they're actually on my wish list



Nice one. As soon as I get it I will review it ASAP as I liked the C10 a lot for the price and I saw it recently for just over £15 which is a crazy price for what you get.


----------



## FutureLegend70

TheVortex said:


> Nice one. As soon as I get it I will review it ASAP as I liked the C10 a lot for the price and I saw it recently for just over £15 which is a crazy price for what you get.


Absolutely. Look forward to seeing your review. 
Yeah the C10 look and sound rather buttery 😁


----------



## courierdriver

TheVortex said:


> Nice one. As soon as I get it I will review it ASAP as I liked the C10 a lot for the price and I saw it recently for just over £15 which is a crazy price for what you get.


I also would be interested in your impressions on the C10 Pro. I have a set in my Ali cart and I'm very tempted to pick them up. They seem to have the same driver configuration as the ZS10 PRO, but perhaps tuned a bit differently (just guessing on the tuning). What also really struck me was the looks of the faceplate. It seems to have that same anodized aluminum faceplate that looks similar to the almost impossible to find ZS10 PRO Royal Blue version. According to @Slater  there were only about 100 units of the Royal Blue version made and even though many Ali sellers show that colour in their ads, no one seems to have them. If the actual C10 PRO looks as nice as the pictures show (along with the gold in the shell grooves etched into the faceplate); I would be happy giving up my search for a KZ ZS10 PRO in Royal Blue. To me, the black and gold on the C10 PRO is just a georgeous. Most important thing is how they sound tho, so I hope they are at least on par with the ZS10 PRO because they are still my favorite all rounder of all the sets I've got.


----------



## TheVortex

courierdriver said:


> I also would be interested in your impressions on the C10 Pro. I have a set in my Ali cart and I'm very tempted to pick them up. They seem to have the same driver configuration as the ZS10 PRO, but perhaps tuned a bit differently (just guessing on the tuning). What also really struck me was the looks of the faceplate. It seems to have that same anodized aluminum faceplate that looks similar to the almost impossible to find ZS10 PRO Royal Blue version. According to @Slater  there were only about 100 units of the Royal Blue version made and even though many Ali sellers show that colour in their ads, no one seems to have them. If the actual C10 PRO looks as nice as the pictures show (along with the gold in the shell grooves etched into the faceplate); I would be happy giving up my search for a KZ ZS10 PRO in Royal Blue. To me, the black and gold on the C10 PRO is just a georgeous. Most important thing is how they sound tho, so I hope they are at least on par with the ZS10 PRO because they are still my favorite all rounder of all the sets I've got.



I own the ZS10 Pro as well and I presume they will be similar to that as the shell looks the same and they both have 1BA in the nozzle where as the C10 has 2BA in the nozzle.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

I just ordered the ZST X. Latest model. I already own the Tin T3. Do you think the sound quality is comparable or will the ZST be noticeably poorer in quality.


----------



## purplesun

FutureLegend70 said:


> Absolutely. Look forward to seeing your review.
> Yeah the C10 look and sound rather buttery 😁


If you like AS10 sound signature, C10 may come across being too lean. The C10 needs a strong source to get it to sing; balanced & extended FR. You can also play around with C10's pressure vents to beef up bass/low mids. I wonder how many of us are still hooked to AS10 sound?


----------



## FutureLegend70

purplesun said:


> If you like AS10 sound signature, C10 may come across being too lean. The C10 needs a strong source to get it to sing; balanced & extended FR. You can also play around with C10's pressure vents to beef up bass/low mids. I wonder how many of us are still hooked to AS10 sound?


Well fingers crossed. 
As for the As10 for my money are pretty near the best KZ have put out. 
Great isolation, super fit, lovely smooth sound.


----------



## Howell29 (Aug 24, 2020)

Just got my hands again on a ZSN Pro & took me 4 layers of micropore tape to achieve acceptable upper mids and sibilance lmao. Micropore tape is awesome @Slater 🙏

Afraid to use more as I might kill the treble?? Is the nozzle mesh removable in this IEM??


----------



## Sebulr

Howell29 said:


> Just got my hands again on a ZSN Pro & took me 4 layers of micropore tape to achieve acceptable upper mids and sibilance lmao. Micropore tape is awesome @Slater 🙏
> 
> Afraid to use more as I might kill the treble?? Is the nozzle mesh removable in this IEM??


I did a similar mod to my zs10 pros. But I used a small piece packing foam. I managed to get one of them under the grill. But it tore the other one, so I just shoved it into the nozzle. I'm the only one who can see it. So who cares? I think it tames a few of the upper mid peaks and means I don't have to eq them. It's a bit less refined than slaters mod, but it gets the job done. I ought to mod my kbear kb10s they are even peakier. But I rarely use them.


----------



## purplesun

FutureLegend70 said:


> As for the As10 for my money are pretty near the best KZ have put out.
> Great isolation, super fit, lovely smooth sound.


Yeah, especially with thin-sounding or old productions, AS10 makes them sound like studio re-masters! 
I recently got a bit more treble out of AS10 by replacing the factory cables with KZ's silver plated cable. It's only a few bucks, you should give is a try.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3375#post-15793893


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

purplesun said:


> Yeah, especially with thin-sounding or old productions, AS10 makes them sound like studio re-masters!
> I recently got a bit more treble out of AS10 by replacing the factory cables with KZ's silver plated cable. It's only a few bucks, you should give is a try.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3375#post-15793893


You got subjective bias telling you that more treble was had.  But no evidence points to it being true objectively.


----------



## FutureLegend70 (Aug 24, 2020)

So after missing out for a while, today I finally got myself a pair of KS4 in red. Along with my CCA C10. 
Still love the my 3s with that killer isolation, and after a couple of hours with the 4 I'm not disappointed. Nice lip to hold the tips on, Near Etymotic isolation, improved sound over the 3....(we have mids!) 😜
Even came with a very swanky Zip case. 
Having a lot of fun at the moment with these, not technically the greatest but they sure are a fun listen.....It maybe sometime before I try the C10 😁


----------



## purplesun

Dr Rez said:


> You got subjective bias telling you that more treble was had.  But no evidence points to it being true objectively.


Fair statement. This hobby has a fair amount subjectivity embedded our opinions. Mine included, obviously.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Slater said:


> It sounds like you’re very treble sensitive, as the original ZS10 has always been described as dark. And you posted on the Blon thread that the BL03 has harsh and sibilant treble (which wow that’s the first time I’ve ever heard the BL03 described like that).
> 
> So if the ZS10 Pro and BL03 are too much for you, I have some really bad news about the ZSN Pro X....



Yep I can agree with that. They scream treble. Compared to even my T3's. If they weren't so cheap i would have returned them, but i'm giving them a few hours to burn in.

You can hear the difference between knowles and budget chinese BA.s.


----------



## khighly

Howell29 said:


> Just got my hands again on a ZSN Pro & took me 4 layers of micropore tape to achieve acceptable upper mids and sibilance lmao. Micropore tape is awesome @Slater 🙏
> 
> Afraid to use more as I might kill the treble?? Is the nozzle mesh removable in this IEM??



Dang, these aren't even really high heavy or sibilant! You must be very sensitive to treble D:


----------



## RikudouGoku

khighly said:


> Dang, these aren't even really high heavy or sibilant! You must be very sensitive to treble D:





Well that 2.5k, 5k and 8k does actually look quite sharp.


----------



## PhonoPhi

khighly said:


> Dang, these aren't even really high heavy or sibilant! You must be very sensitive to treble D:


If there is a "treble police (I got a second pair if A10 on deep sale thanks to them), should it then be "anti-treble police"  

My problem with the recent ZSN X pro is not the treble but the underdeveloped mids, especially the DD/BA transition.


----------



## PhonoPhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Well that 2.5k, 5k and 8k does actually look quite sharp.


If you turn your volume down just right, you can enjoy every one of them


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> If you turn your volume down just right, you can enjoy every one of them


I got my Shuoer Tape (eq) for that, hyper detailed even with low volume.


----------



## CrazyDelta

Hi everyone.

Just wanna ask for a recommendation on a pair of KZ earphones.

I bought a pair of KZ Zs4 before and am looking for a little upgrade.

I mostly listen to band music like Pink Floyd, Tool, etc. So not necessarily looking for that heavy bass kind of sound.

Your opinion on what I should purchase would be much appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## FutureLegend70

CrazyDelta said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Just wanna ask for a recommendation on a pair of KZ earphones.
> 
> ...


As10, nice little upgrade, Floyd and such like play effortless on it.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

PhonoPhi said:


> If there is a "treble police (I got a second pair if A10 on deep sale thanks to them), should it then be "anti-treble police"
> 
> My problem with the recent ZSN X pro is not the treble but the underdeveloped mids, especially the DD/BA transition.



Yeah that where i think the problems lies. The DD is just pulling its weight. Not sure of the size, probably only 10mm.

But its a 20 dollar IEM, so what do you expect. I won't buy cheap IEM's anymore. My lowest price i will go is about $70.


----------



## baskingshark

CrazyDelta said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Just wanna ask for a recommendation on a pair of KZ earphones.
> 
> ...



Do you have a budget? And is it only a KZ IEM u are looking for?

KZ is undoubtedly the market leader at the $30ish - $50 USD region, and they were my first foray into CHIFI, but there are other good affordable CHIFI brands to consider too. And I gotta say above the $50 price bracket, there may be better stuff than KZs.


----------



## chinmie

RikudouGoku said:


> I got my Shuoer Tape (eq) for that, hyper detailed even with low volume.



i sold my Tape after i got the T2+. between my T2 Pro (for low volume) and Etys(for higher volume) , there's not much that the Tape can add. T2Pro for me sounds better in similar scenarios to the Tape, and i can get the ZS10 Pro/ ZSX in the same ballpark as the Tape with EQ. i hope the new Tape 2 would be good though


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> If there is a "treble police (I got a second pair if A10 on deep sale thanks to them), should it then be "anti-treble police"


Detective Sunny Overbright & Sergeant Diego HiRes on the case!
"You have the right to remain sibilant!"


----------



## unifutomaki

purplesun said:


> Detective Sunny Overbright & Sergeant Diego HiRes on the case!
> "You have the right to remain sibilant!"



Any cymbals you hear will be sss sss sss against you!


----------



## seanwee

unifutomaki said:


> Any cymbals you hear will be sss sss sss against you!


On the Final Audio A8000 its $$$ $$$ $$$


----------



## CrazyDelta (Aug 26, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Do you have a budget? And is it only a KZ IEM u are looking for?
> 
> KZ is undoubtedly the market leader at the $30ish - $50 USD region, and they were my first foray into CHIFI, but there are other good affordable CHIFI brands to consider too. And I gotta say above the $50 price bracket, there may be better stuff than KZs.



In fact my budget is about £30. I'm not looking to spend a lot. Only wanting to get a little upgrade as my previous pair are a bit worn out.

Am not partial to KZ. But had a good first experience with KZ ZS4.


----------



## baskingshark

CrazyDelta said:


> In fact my budget is about £30. I'm not looking to spend a lot. Only wanting to get a little upgrade as my previous pair are a bit worn out.



U might wanna read about stuff like:
- KBEAR KB04
- KZ ZS10 Pro
- KZ ZSX
- CCA C12
- TRN V90

There's a new CCA C10 Pro that just launched, but haven't seen any reviews about it, but one to keep an eye on. If u can up your budget a bit, do consider the iBasso IT00. There's actually a big Aliexpress sale now going on, so it is a good time too to get stuff, though better check on how are the transit times to your country in view of covid.


----------



## CrazyDelta

baskingshark said:


> U might wanna read about stuff like:
> - KBEAR KB04
> - KZ ZS10 Pro
> - KZ ZSX
> ...



Thanks for all the choices. I'll definitely look into it. So these ones specially would be good for band type rock music?


----------



## baskingshark

CrazyDelta said:


> Thanks for all the choices. I'll definitely look into it. So these ones specially would be good for band type rock music?



Yep I would think a V shaped type signature with good technicalities should suit rock, so those would be my go to (they are multi BA/hybrid type IEMs).

I hope others can advise too though!


----------



## Howell29

I'm about to gift my Dad a Bluetooth cable for his KZ ZSN Pro. Which KBear S1 variant should fit better on the ZSN Pro's Paragraph C cable? "2 Pin" or "TFZ" one?? Thanks


----------



## Howell29

Howell29 said:


> I'm about to gift my Dad a Bluetooth cable for his KZ ZSN Pro. Which KBear S1 variant should fit better on the ZSN Pro's Paragraph C cable? "2 Pin" or "TFZ" one?? Thanks



Nevermind there's a hidden description that the TFZ ones fits Para C KZ's


----------



## CrazyDelta

baskingshark said:


> Yep I would think a V shaped type signature with good technicalities should suit rock, so those would be my go to (they are multi BA/hybrid type IEMs).
> 
> I hope others can advise too though!



Nice. I'm considering between ZS10 Pro, CCA C10 Pro (They just look fantastic, ) and maybe the CCA C12. 

Need to make up my mind between these.

I felt the ZSX seem too big to me and iBasso a bit out of my price range.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 26, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> Any cymbals you hear will be sss sss sss against you!


Absolutely!
That would be as if standing right next to cymbals - high overtones are there and overwhelming.

High overtones decay fast, so over some distance cymbals are more listenable.

I listen to strings, recently I was particular enjoying recordings of Chinese string instruments with plucked strings: konghou, guzheng.

Less dampened BAs make those instruments sound amazing, as if you are immersed into sea of strings, and pentatonic makes it also easier for clashing overtones.

Works well with chamber string instruments as well.


----------



## chinmie

Howell29 said:


> I'm about to gift my Dad a Bluetooth cable for his KZ ZSN Pro. Which KBear S1 variant should fit better on the ZSN Pro's Paragraph C cable? "2 Pin" or "TFZ" one?? Thanks



how do these KBear BT adapters compare to the KZs? do these have lower noise floor?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

And KZ finally brings out a new single DD iem. KZ EDX! Potential successor to ED9. No details except this screenshot in the official store.


----------



## the Ortherion

Leo-rume said:


> The dream finally coming true guys. A new KZ single dd. Type B connectors too from the looks of it.


It looks to be a KZ Z1 with cable. If soo could be pretty good.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> Absolutely!
> That would be as if standing right next to cymbals - high overtones are there and overwhelming.
> High overtones decay fast, so over some distance cymbals are more listenable.


Went to a solo performance by the amazing Evelyn Glennie once. These sounds have to be felt as well as being heard. Never been quite the same after that - in a good way!


----------



## astermk

I set my eyes on this cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ but the difference between QDC and TFZ is missing with my head. Which variety do I need for the ZS10 Pro and CCA CA16? I read something about KZ's connectors having reversed polarity so QDC cables behave kinda funky with them. So do I need a TFZ cable or?


----------



## seanwee (Aug 27, 2020)

Wrong thread


----------



## jaydm99

So the KZ ZAX is out now on Ali KZ Official store for $60


----------



## astermk

jaydm99 said:


> So the KZ ZAX is out now on Ali KZ Official store for $60


That's...easily at least $20 less than I would have thought. They're still a bit more expensive than the CA16 but with meaningful specs differences - the vents should make them sound more open, the DD is 10mm and not 7mm, and they once again have a 30095 in the nozzle. Though that might be more of a con. The main thing is that they look much nicer, especially the black ones. The ZAX wasn't a thing when I ordered my CA16, otherwise I'd have waited.


----------



## Dave Drums

astermk said:


> That's...easily at least $20 less than I would have thought. They're still a bit more expensive than the CA16 but with meaningful specs differences - the vents should make them sound more open, the DD is 10mm and not 7mm, and they once again have a 30095 in the nozzle. Though that might be more of a con. The main thing is that they look much nicer, especially the black ones. The ZAX wasn't a thing when I ordered my CA16, otherwise I'd have waited.


I'm really exited for these!
If the tuning is similar to the CA16 these could be a real winner


----------



## Slater

jaydm99 said:


> So the KZ ZAX is out now on Ali KZ Official store for $60



No black color yet


----------



## IEMusic

astermk said:


> I set my eyes on this cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ but the difference between QDC and TFZ is missing with my head. Which variety do I need for the ZS10 Pro and CCA CA16? I read something about KZ's connectors having reversed polarity so QDC cables behave kinda funky with them. So do I need a TFZ cable or?


You need the qdc connector.


----------



## darmanastartes

^ 
TFZ is a more boxy connector type that also fits the Nicehck NX7 and Blon BL-03.


----------



## unifutomaki (Aug 27, 2020)

jaydm99 said:


> So the KZ ZAX is out now on Ali KZ Official store for $60



So that's why the name ZAX rang a bell in my head... I guess that means I have to get them at some point now.

The black version does look sick. Someone at KZ has really stepped up in the design department this year, what with the ZSN Pro X, C10 Pro and now this.


----------



## astermk

IEMusic said:


> You need the qdc connector.


What about the reversed polarity thing? Or am I mixing something up?


----------



## TheVortex

I was hoping there would be no BA in the nozzle of that KZ ZAX so I might pass but will wait on impressons.


----------



## Sebulr

astermk said:


> What about the reversed polarity thing? Or am I mixing something up?


If the cables are both wired backwards it makes no difference. A dynamic driver might be "sucking" instead of "blowing", but as long as the other is in sync it will sound the same.


----------



## lgcubana

Slater said:


> I too have been looking for the “Royal Blue” faceplate since before last 11.11. They are nowhere to be found.
> 
> Sure, plenty of listing photos SHOW the all blue faceplate. But when you try and order it there is no option for it. Instead, every listing has the “Glare blue“ color one instead (which came later and is different):
> 
> ...


Sometimes it’s better to be lucky, than... 
I did not realize that the royal blue, KZ ZS10 Pro was a limited run.  That explains why I had to keep checking Amazon (August, 2019), as the royal blue was always out of stock.


----------



## ChoppedBroccoli (Aug 27, 2020)

Dave Drums said:


> I'm really exited for these!
> If the tuning is similar to the CA16 these could be a real winner



Yeah hoping the open design makes the KZ ZAX airy!

Currently have the FH3 and IT00. I like both, but hoping for something in the middle - smooth in front mids of the IT00, clarity of FH3, and more open-ness in general. Any suggestions? I haven't tried any of the KZ/CCA lineage yet.

Right now on my shortlist to try :

CVJ CSN, CCA CA16, KZ ZAX (not released/reviewed yet), CCA C10 pro (not released, reviewed yet)


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> Sometimes it’s better to be lucky, than...
> I did not realize that the royal blue, KZ ZS10 Pro was a limited run.  That explains why I had to keep checking Amazon (August, 2019), as the royal blue was always out of stock.



You really have a rare treasure there. I hope you enjoy it for a long time to come


----------



## IEMusic

Slater said:


> You really have a rare treasure there. I hope you enjoy it for a long time to come


What material are the regular faceplates made of?  If steel, do you think you could blue it with a flame, like they do with screws and other parts of luxury watches?


----------



## Slater

IEMusic said:


> What material are the regular faceplates made of?  If steel, do you think you could blue it with a flame, like they do with screws and other parts of luxury watches?



It’s stainless steel, and believe it or not, I have already been experimenting with that after I was unable to get a Royal Blue version of my own


----------



## IEMusic

Slater said:


> It’s stainless steel, and believe it or not, I have already been experimenting with that after I was unable to get a Royal Blue version of my own


I figured.  That’s why I asked.


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


> Sometimes it’s better to be lucky, than...
> I did not realize that the royal blue, KZ ZS10 Pro was a limited run.  That explains why I had to keep checking Amazon (August, 2019), as the royal blue was always out of stock.


You are sooo lucky! Nice pic and them and your cable look gorgeous! What is that copper cable you're using with them?


----------



## DynamicEars

courierdriver said:


> You are sooo lucky! Nice pic and them and your cable look gorgeous! What is that copper cable you're using with them?



looks like NiceHCK C16 C to me


----------



## courierdriver

DynamicEars said:


> looks like NiceHCK C16 C to me


Yeah, I think you are correct. Bought this cable for my kid's Moondrop KXXS. I didn't have much ear time with that combo; but thought that that cable was just as good as the ISN C16 copper cable I have on my KPE. Half the price of the ISN, and less thick. Falls better also. I found it more comfortable to wear also.


----------



## Howell29

Why does KZ love the 30095 steely sounding BA straight to the nozzle haha


----------



## Howell29

chinmie said:


> how do these KBear BT adapters compare to the KZs? do these have lower noise floor?



Will find out once they arrived, reviews are very few but seems to be praised, an upgrade to this might cost twice like the TRN BT20's or thrice like the Fiio bluetooth adapters

Still grumpy 'bout the sudden release of the Fiio BTR3K when I got my BTR1K lmao


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 28, 2020)

Howell29 said:


> Why does KZ love the 30095 steely sounding BA straight to the nozzle haha



I spoke to KopiOKaya, an ex KZ tuner, he says the local Chinese domestic market likes boosted upper mids/lower treble cause a lot of their music incorporates female vocals. They even have a term called "musical poison" 毒音 to describe this boosted area. So it seems the undampened BAs inside the nozzle generally give a brighter treble, some Westerners find this fatiguing, but I guess it also depends on your sources, hearing health and preferred sound signatures (eg treble sensitive vs treblehead).

So when it comes to potential sales, it is a billion or so people in their China domestic market vs a few thousand fanatical Western CHIFI fans, it's no contest, they will tune to whichever market is bigger. KopiOKaya says the BLON BL-03 which is very hyped in the West, isn't popular in China for the toned down treble.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to KopiOKaya, an ex KZ tuner, he says the local Chinese domestic market likes boosted upper mids/lower treble cause a lot of their music incorporates female vocals. They even have a term called "musical poison" 毒音 to describe this boosted area. So it seems the undampened nozzles inside the BA generally give a brighter treble, some Westerners find this fatiguing, but I guess it also depends on your sources, hearing health and preferred sound signatures (eg treble sensitive vs treblehead).
> 
> So when it comes to potential sales, it is a billion or so people in their China domestic market vs a few thousand fanatical Western CHIFI fans, it's no contest, they will tune to whichever market is bigger. KopiOKaya says the BLON BL-03 which is very hyped in the West, isn't popular in China for the toned down treble.


Kinda makes sense...but then again, there are many Chinese tuned iems that also appeal to Western ears. A lotta folks like the details and soundstage that Chifi iems bring to the table. Plus, that kinda sound often comes at a much more affordable price, compared to higher priced Western brands. If it wasn't for Chi-fi, I couldn't afford to stay in this hobby.


----------



## Howell29

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to KopiOKaya, an ex KZ tuner, he says the local Chinese domestic market likes boosted upper mids/lower treble cause a lot of their music incorporates female vocals. They even have a term called "musical poison" 毒音 to describe this boosted area. So it seems the undampened BAs inside the nozzle generally give a brighter treble, some Westerners find this fatiguing, but I guess it also depends on your sources, hearing health and preferred sound signatures (eg treble sensitive vs treblehead).
> 
> So when it comes to potential sales, it is a billion or so people in their China domestic market vs a few thousand fanatical Western CHIFI fans, it's no contest, they will tune to whichever market is bigger. KopiOKaya says the BLON BL-03 which is very hyped in the West, isn't popular in China for the toned down treble.



So upper mids is like ear dope to China, why why my fellow asians haha

But yah, a boost in the upper mids seems to benefit the voice of the female singers from some songs I heard from them. Even K-pop seems to benefit from upper mids boost. 

Good thing I still appreciate crisp treble despite upper mids & sibilance region being painful for me.


----------



## Seazer

Interested in the ZAX since it appears to be an open design. I looooove the ZSX so hopefully this will compliment it well. However I didn't like the CCA CA16 so we'll see where this new one lands. I'll probably wait for it to appear on Amazon so I can take advantage of returns in case I'm not a fan


----------



## MrMajony

Howell29 said:


> Why does KZ love the 30095 steely sounding BA straight to the nozzle haha



Ironically my cca ca16 has stranger highs and has a worse timbre than my kz zsx (zsx has ba in the mouthpiece and CA16 not), the tuning is more important in this case.


----------



## BubisUK

I am more interested in kz-edx, I have contacted the official Ali store, but they still have no info on when they will have it for sale.


----------



## seanwee

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to KopiOKaya, an ex KZ tuner, he says the local Chinese domestic market likes boosted upper mids/lower treble cause a lot of their music incorporates female vocals. They even have a term called "musical poison" 毒音 to describe this boosted area. So it seems the undampened BAs inside the nozzle generally give a brighter treble, some Westerners find this fatiguing, but I guess it also depends on your sources, hearing health and preferred sound signatures (eg treble sensitive vs treblehead).
> 
> So when it comes to potential sales, it is a billion or so people in their China domestic market vs a few thousand fanatical Western CHIFI fans, it's no contest, they will tune to whichever market is bigger. KopiOKaya says the BLON BL-03 which is very hyped in the West, isn't popular in China for the toned down treble.





Howell29 said:


> So upper mids is like ear dope to China, why why my fellow asians haha
> 
> But yah, a boost in the upper mids seems to benefit the voice of the female singers from some songs I heard from them. Even K-pop seems to benefit from upper mids boost.
> 
> Good thing I still appreciate crisp treble despite upper mids & sibilance region being painful for me.


I've been thinking maybe its because of the difference in how western and asian songs are recorded or mastered but who knows. Or maybe its because of the difference in ear shapes but i doubt thats the reason.


----------



## Slater

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to KopiOKaya, an ex KZ tuner...



TRN, not KZ


----------



## baskingshark

Slater said:


> TRN, not KZ



He tuned for the earliest KZs before he left for TRN I think.



seanwee said:


> I've been thinking maybe its because of the difference in how western and asian songs are recorded or mastered but who knows. Or maybe its because of the difference in ear shapes but i doubt thats the reason.



KopiOKaya wrote something here about CHIFI tuning for mainland local Chinese vs the rest of the world, quite interesting read: https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-tuning/


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> You are sooo lucky! Nice pic and them and your cable look gorgeous! What is that copper cable you're using with them?





DynamicEars said:


> looks like *NiceHCK C16 C* to me


*Good eye*


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> I spoke to KopiOKaya, an ex KZ tuner...
> KopiOKaya says the BLON BL-03 which is very hyped in the West, isn't popular in China for the toned down treble.


Oh...
To my ears BL-03 has a nice treble for a DD (and that cones from a person who craves those steely 30095).

A toned down treble (and bass) would be TRN X6 - a tuning that seems to be rather universally unappreciated both in West and East (let the tuner remain anonymous )
You mentioned X6 use in stage monitoring, and it makes quite a bit of sense to me - since it seems to be tuned like a hearing aid - to transmit most of the information.

TRN X6 is my only IEM (out of 40+) with very sad QC, so nowadays TRN trying to sell BA8 for $150 makes me scratch my head, sorry for the digression...


----------



## PhonoPhi

seanwee said:


> I've been thinking maybe its because of the difference in how western and asian songs are recorded or mastered but who knows. Or maybe its because of the difference in ear shapes but i doubt thats the reason.


My thinking would be the difference in ear training due to tone languages, such as Chinese.

Speakers of these languages are more sensitive to pitch contours, so more information at higher frequencies is processed, and more prominent upper mids and treble are commonly appreciated by listeners.


----------



## unifutomaki

PhonoPhi said:


> Oh...
> To my ears BL-03 has a nice treble for a DD (and that cones from a person who craves those steely 30095).
> 
> A toned down treble (and bass) would be TRN X6 - a tuning that seems to be rather universally unappreciated both in West and East (let the tuner remain anonymous )
> ...



That BA8 pricing sure is wack, especially when the AS16 also has 8 BAs per side, costs less, and still isn't a particularly great value at RRP!


----------



## seanwee

PhonoPhi said:


> A *toned down treble (and bass)* would be TRN X6 - *a tuning that seems to be rather universally unappreciated both in West and East* (let the tuner remain anonymous )
> You mentioned X6 use in *stage monitoring*, and it makes quite a bit of sense to me - since it seems to be tuned like a hearing aid - to transmit most of the information.


Thats pretty much my experience with fender iems, I despise how they sound and every iem in their lineup, budget to flagship is tuned that way with small variations from one to another.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Howell29 said:


> So upper mids is like ear dope to China, why why my fellow asians haha
> 
> But yah, a boost in the upper mids seems to benefit the voice of the female singers from some songs I heard from them. Even K-pop seems to benefit from upper mids boost.
> 
> Good thing I still appreciate crisp treble despite upper mids & sibilance region being painful for me.


This is because how the local songs are recorded and how the language is spoken. It's the local thing, for example when I listen to asian folk pop or J-pop on some IEMs like ZSN or TRN ST1 which are known for its hot treble, they don't sound all that shouty or harsh.



BubisUK said:


> I am more interested in kz-edx, I have contacted the official Ali store, but they still have no info on when they will have it for sale.


Even I'm eagerly awaiting them and it's been ages since KZ has had a good single DD IEM.


----------



## DynamicEars

Should I get KZ ZAX? Not actually need them but kinda curious what can they do to improve from ZSX. CA16 7mm driver made me hesitate, but ZAX is using 10mm dd, hopefully better one lile @Slater said.
Wait, ZSX were using DWEK BAs on mids, a copy of Knowles DWFK. Is ZAX using similar BAs?


----------



## TheVortex

DynamicEars said:


> Should I get KZ ZAX? Not actually need them but kinda curious what can they do to improve from ZSX. CA16 7mm driver made me hesitate, but ZAX is using 10mm dd, hopefully better one lile @Slater said.
> Wait, ZSX were using DWEK BAs on mids, a copy of Knowles DWFK. Is ZAX using similar BAs?



I will be getting one when I can and will be a good comparison to the CA16. The promo images does not say anything about a DWEK armature and I want the black variant. Also the 7mm driver in the CA16 performed very well.


----------



## Slater (Aug 29, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> Wait, ZSX were using DWEK BAs on mids, a copy of Knowles DWFK. Is ZAX using similar BAs?



The ZAX mid drivers are 2x50024. They were first used in the CA16

“For the first time, we adopt the customized 50024 balanced armatures along with accordingly structural improvement.”

Any CA16 owners - can you comment on how the midrange sounds?


----------



## FutureLegend70

So Just had the terminators arrive, and am very glad to say they do indeed fix the harshness in the treble of the 10 Pro. 
They're also a lot more punchy, especially in the bass department, plenty of thump!
So thumbs up indeed... And I haven't even tried the upgrade cable yet... 😜


----------



## Seazer

Slater said:


> The ZAX mid drivers are 2x50024. They were first used in the CA16
> 
> “For the first time, we adopt the customized 50024 balanced armatures along with accordingly structural improvement.”
> 
> Any CA16 owners - can you comment on how the midrange sounds?


I personally think the CA16 sounds a little funky. But I'm not sure if its just driver implementation and placement (for CA16 they encircle the DD). I'm also not sure if it's the midrange BA or the treble BA that make it sound a bit unnatural. It has a bit of a "papery" quality to the sound. Hard to put into words but thats the best way I can describe it, not metallic but papery. Maybe this is what people mean by plasticky but I dunno exactly. I'm holding out hope for the ZAX though, although i'm cautious and will wait until I can order from somehwere with a decent return policy


----------



## astermk

https://www.linsoul.com/collections/kz/products/kz-zax?variant=35715192783003
ZAX up on Linsoul as well.


----------



## rayliam80

From looking at pictures of the KZ ZAX, I can't tell if it's a true vented design or not. It may be mesh screen in-between shell and the top cap and just there for aesthetics or to give an appearance that it is vented. If this is a true vented design of some kind, I'd be more likely to pick this up.


----------



## astermk

rayliam80 said:


> From looking at pictures of the KZ ZAX, I can't tell if it's a true vented design or not. It may be mesh screen in-between shell and the top cap and just there for aesthetics or to give an appearance that it is vented. If this is a true vented design of some kind, I'd be more likely to pick this up.


This seems to be a real life picture of it as opposed to a render: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgcxDTzVoAAmIF4.jpg
It's see-through. That's definitely a real vent.


----------



## IEMusic

astermk said:


> This seems to be a real life picture of it as opposed to a render: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgcxDTzVoAAmIF4.jpg
> It's see-through. That's definitely a real vent.


Wow, based on that photo it’s not a vent, it’s a fully open back IEM!


----------



## astermk

LuckyLZ Store has a $10 off coupon on them right now on AliExpress: https://twitter.com/lucky52143915/status/1299061062705147904

Extremely tempting for $50 flat.


----------



## unifutomaki

astermk said:


> This seems to be a real life picture of it as opposed to a render: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgcxDTzVoAAmIF4.jpg
> It's see-through. That's definitely a real vent.



Very interesting!


----------



## IEMusic

This is what we need from KZ, different products.  Open back, neutral tunings, maybe single DD IEMs, different drivers, etc.


----------



## unifutomaki

IEMusic said:


> This is what we need from KZ, different products.  Open back, neutral tunings, maybe single DD IEMs, different drivers, etc.



And less flooding the market with mediocre TWS sets


----------



## astermk

Definitely the most interesting product KZ have put out since the ZSN and ZS10 Pro duo. $50 for an open back 8 driver IEM? Just for the specs alone that's a freaking steal, and KZ has gotten pretty decent at tuning their hybrids in the last two years. I'm liking this much better than their endless stream of crappy TWS IEMs with connection issues and 3 hour battery life and terrible designs.


----------



## rayliam80

astermk said:


> This seems to be a real life picture of it as opposed to a render: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgcxDTzVoAAmIF4.jpg
> It's see-through. That's definitely a real vent.



I saw this picture as well before I made my comment. I'm still on the fence until one of us (or a reviewer) has it in hand and can verify if it's an open design. The shell could be solid plastic yet translucent. I'm still excited for this release, regardless if it's open or not.


----------



## unifutomaki

astermk said:


> Definitely the most interesting product KZ have put out since the ZSN and ZS10 Pro duo. $50 for an open back 8 driver IEM? Just for the specs alone that's a freaking steal, and KZ has gotten pretty decent at tuning their hybrids in the last two years. I'm liking this much better than their endless stream of crappy TWS IEMs with connection issues and 3 hour battery life and terrible designs.



If it is indeed an open design, we may finally have a ZS7 successor. I was flipping back and forth about picking up the ZS7 in the recent sale but now the ZAX has come along.


----------



## DynamicEars

Real semi open back??? Enough talking I'll get one and see what KZ can give us today after quite some time


----------



## ChristianM

I ordered KZ ZSX on 29 May and my parcel is still in transit, maybe lost by Singapore post 4px, open a dispute and hopefully will get my refund after 3 September. ZAX looks very different than previous KZs, maybe I'll add some money and get ZAX if reviews say it's better than ZSX.


----------



## Nimweth

unifutomaki said:


> If it is indeed an open design, we may finally have a ZS7 successor. I was flipping back and forth about picking up the ZS7 in the recent sale but now the ZAX has come along.


If the ZAX sounds anything like the ZS7 count me in!


----------



## courierdriver

Uh, oh! Sad news. My beloved ZS10 PRO's (which I've had for over 1.5 years) have quit working in the left earpiece. Reason is that the raised connector on the earpiece itself has broken at one of the pins, most likely as a result of swapping out cables too much. I knew something was up a week or so ago, because my Tripowin Zonie balanced cable was falling out of the iem connector. Today though, I plugged my set into my ES100 and only got sound from the right side. Left was dead. Upon careful inspection I found the raised connector plastic shell cracked with a piece missing. Tried other cables to get it going again, but no luck. Thankfully, I was able to purchase a replacement set on Aliexpress for about $37 Cdn. I decided to go for the Glare Blue version this time around (my dead set were with silver plate and black shell). Honestly sad though. My ZS10 PRO was in the top 2 of my favorite iems.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Uh, oh! Sad news. My beloved ZS10 PRO's (which I've had for over 1.5 years) have quit working in the left earpiece. Reason is that the raised connector on the earpiece itself has broken at one of the pins, most likely as a result of swapping out cables too much. I knew something was up a week or so ago, because my Tripowin Zonie balanced cable was falling out of the iem connector. Today though, I plugged my set into my ES100 and only got sound from the right side. Left was dead. Upon careful inspection I found the raised connector plastic shell cracked with a piece missing. Tried other cables to get it going again, but no luck. Thankfully, I was able to purchase a replacement set on Aliexpress for about $37 Cdn. I decided to go for the Glare Blue version this time around (my dead set were with silver plate and black shell). Honestly sad though. My ZS10 PRO was in the top 2 of my favorite iems.



So another case of a crumbled paragraph C socket


----------



## FutureLegend70 (Aug 30, 2020)

And on top of that, yesterday I picked up an upgrade cable along with my Zsx, but thought I'd try it in the 10 Pro to see if it made the sound any better.
Anyway it actually did make them more easy to listen to, although sadly I noticed some play from the right hand side earpiece raised connector and its loose.... Which is a bit poor considering I've only had them a few days.... 
So sadly these are now booked for a return.


----------



## IEMusic

I‘m really not liking the poor durability of these qdc sockets.  Worst of all, they seem to be gaining popularity.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> So another case of a crumbled paragraph C socket


Yeah...I think the problem is that they use that .75mm connector style, when the 2pin standard is ..78mm. You can buy alot of. 78 2 pin cables (even using that funky QDC connector style), but I think that the slightly larger .78 that is the norm, might be causing the smaller .75 2 pin in the KZ'S and TRN's to cause too much outward pressure on the connector shells, which is causing them to break. I'd really like to see any companies that are currently using ..75mm connectors to switch to the .78 standard 2 pin, and design their iems around that cable connection standard.


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2020)

courierdriver said:


> Yeah...I think the problem is that they use that .75mm connector style, when the 2pin standard is ..78mm. You can buy alot of. 78 2 pin cables (even using that funky QDC connector style), but I think that the slightly larger .78 that is the norm, might be causing the smaller .75 2 pin in the KZ'S and TRN's to cause too much outward pressure on the connector shells, which is causing them to break. I'd really like to see any companies that are currently using ..75mm connectors to switch to the .78 standard 2 pin, and design their iems around that cable connection standard.



I’ve suspected that myself. If the plastic that the socket itself is made of isn’t quite flexible enough, perhaps the opening of the female pins is putting outward pressure on the 2-pin socket and causing micro cracks that grow over time.

Basically how concrete and brick structures crack slowly over time with freezing and thawing cycles. Water expands just a fractional amount; enough to cause stress fractures. Then when the cycle is repeated over and over again, the stress fractures cause cracks which eventually cause the material to fail.

Of course, that is just speculation. I’m sure KZ did all testing with their stock cables (and genuine CCA/KZ upgrade cables). But it could be the use of 3rd party that is the issue. We just don’t know.

I personally didn’t see what was wrong with the old 2-pin plugs, other than it being stupid that there was A and B styles that were exactly the same except for a very minor size difference. KZ could have/should have just gone with the paragraph B, used it on everything, and been done with it.


----------



## courierdriver (Aug 30, 2020)

Slater said:


> I’ve suspected that myself. If the plastic that the socket itself is made of isn’t quite flexible enough, perhaps the opening of the female pins is putting outward pressure on the 2-pin socket and causing micro cracks that grow over time.
> 
> Basically how concrete and brick structures crack slowly over time with freezing and thawing cycles. Water expands just a fractional amount; enough to cause stress fractures. Then when the cycle is repeated over and over again, the stress fractures cause cracks which eventually cause the material to fail.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think that is one of the things I hate most about this hobby. Every manufacturer seems to think that they need to come up with some special proprietary connectors to make their gear more special or exclusive. When they go that route, it actually reduces the choice of the consumer.
Edit: Personally, I prefer 2 pin to mmcx... but it would be nice if the options/versions of each were kept to a standard for each.


----------



## IEMusic (Aug 30, 2020)

Just to confirm, all qdc sockets are spaced 0.75mm?  I’ve always been using either qdc plugs, or standard 2 pin (0.78mm) plugs.  If qdc are 0.75mm, are the TFZ/NX7 sockets 0.78mm?

There are multiple stress fractures on the qdc sockets of my L3s, and I’ve only used the stock qdc cable with it (other than trying a few other cables briefly).


----------



## Slater (Aug 30, 2020)

courierdriver said:


> I agree. I think that is one of the things I hate most about this hobby. Every manufacturer seems to think that they need to come up with some special proprietary connectors to make their gear more special or exclusive. When they go that route, it actually reduces the choice of the consumer.
> Edit: Personally, I prefer 2 pin to mmcx... but it would be nice if the options/versions of each were kept to a standard for each.





IEMusic said:


> Just to confirm, all qdc sockets are spaced 0.75mm?  I’ve always been using either qdc plugs, or standard 2 pin (0.78mm) plugs.  If qdc are 0.75mm, are the TFZ/NX7 sockets 0.78mm?
> 
> There are multiple stress fractures on the qdc sockets of my L3s, and I’ve only used the stock qdc cable with it (other than trying a few other cables briefly).



I was looking at replacement QDC sockets on Aliexpress, and noticed this warning:




So according to that, it seems likely that the problem may not be the 0.75 vs 0.78 pin size at all, but rather the act of soldering the sockets that weakens them.

Maybe that’s why only some people have this problem, while others don’t. It could literally be that a particular technician soldered 1 socket out of 30, and held the soldering iron on the terminal for 0.4 seconds longer to complete the soldering. So now that particular socket melted slightly and was weakened as a result, but the other 29 were perfectly fine.

Now multiply that scenario across multiple IEM companies in dozens of IEM factories with hundreds of assembly technicians.

*That could explain why it’s so random, and affects more than 1 company.*

Or maybe it’s a combination of factors - some sockets weakened slightly by heat, coupled with some customers using certain cables that cause micro fractures.


----------



## unifutomaki

IEMusic said:


> Just to confirm, all qdc sockets are spaced 0.75mm?  I’ve always been using either qdc plugs, or standard 2 pin (0.78mm) plugs.  If qdc are 0.75mm, are the TFZ/NX7 sockets 0.78mm?
> 
> There are multiple stress fractures on the qdc sockets of my L3s, and I’ve only used the stock qdc cable with it (other than trying a few other cables briefly).



From what I understand, "QDC" itself doesn't connote a pin diameter. That is, there can be QDC cables with 0.75mm pins or 0.78mm pins, and there's no way of knowing what a "QDC" cable has without drilling down into the seller's description. The TFZ socket is 0.78mm but with a squared rather than rounded sheath.


----------



## courierdriver

unifutomaki said:


> From what I understand, "QDC" itself doesn't connote a pin diameter. That is, there can be QDC cables with 0.75mm pins or 0.78mm pins, and there's no way of knowing what a "QDC" cable has without drilling down into the seller's description. The TFZ socket is 0.78mm but with a squared rather than rounded sheath.


Yes, that's correct. QDC, as a manufacturer of iems and cables, developed this shrouded design, in an effort to reduce the likelihood of the pins from snapping off inside the iems themselves. As the originator of that style of connection method, it was designed with .78mm pins. It was other brands like KZ, CCA, and TRN that adopted this connection method; but decided to use a slightly smaller ..75mm pin. I'm not sure why they did this; but I'm guessing that they wanted to have a more proprietary cable connector, so that they could sell more of their own upgrade cables.


----------



## IEMusic

courierdriver said:


> Yes, that's correct. QDC, as a manufacturer of iems and cables, developed this shrouded design, in an effort to reduce the likelihood of the pins from snapping off inside the iems themselves. As the originator of that style of connection method, it was designed with .78mm pins. It was other brands like KZ, CCA, and TRN that adopted this connection method; but decided to use a slightly smaller ..75mm pin. I'm not sure why they did this; but I'm guessing that they wanted to have a more proprietary cable connector, so that they could sell more of their own upgrade cables.


So far, I’ve never purchased a 0.75mm 2 pin cable, yet every qdc IEM that I’ve tried both 2 pin cables and third party qdc cables on, it’s worked just fine.


----------



## courierdriver

IEMusic said:


> So far, I’ve never purchased a 0.75mm 2 pin cable, yet every qdc IEM that I’ve tried both 2 pin cables and third party qdc cables on, it’s worked just fine.


Yes and neither have I ever purchased a .75 2 pin cable either. Any upgrade cable I've ever purchased  for balanced, 2.5mm that went to a QDC connector on the iems, was a .78. I think that's why my 1.7 year old ZS10 PRO's left earpiece died. The ZS10 PRO and others from CCA and TRN use a smaller .75 diameter QDC connector. While the .78 will work for a while, if inserted once and never removed again; I think it would be more able to stand the test of time if the iem was actually designed to work with a .78.


----------



## Turkleton (Aug 31, 2020)

IEMusic said:


> So far, I’ve never purchased a 0.75mm 2 pin cable, yet every qdc IEM that I’ve tried both 2 pin cables and third party qdc cables on, it’s worked just fine.


Wanna know who makes 0.75mm 2pin cables? TRN haha! I bought their T4 copper cable recently and it fits my ZS5 + ZS10 Pro perfectly. But it's meh compared to Kinboofi/Hifihear and the like.


----------



## astermk

Done and done! Just ordered them (ZAX) from LuckyLZ with that $10 off coupon - $49 in total with free shipping and 4 pairs of foams, quite a deal for brand new IEMs honestly. Now the search for a cable to pair them with.


----------



## seanwee

I've switced around the cables on my QDC neptune and my ZSX. They seem to fit each other well. The only thing noteworthy is that the QDC cable fits tighter on the QDC neptunes.


----------



## Dave Drums

ChristianM said:


> I ordered KZ ZSX on 29 May and my parcel is still in transit, maybe lost by Singapore post 4px, open a dispute and hopefully will get my refund after 3 September. ZAX looks very different than previous KZs, maybe I'll add some money and get ZAX if reviews say it's better than ZSX.



ZSX are really quite good - I'm really exited for the ZAX though!



FutureLegend70 said:


> And on top of that, yesterday I picked up an upgrade cable along with my Zsx, but thought I'd try it in the 10 Pro to see if it made the sound any better.
> Anyway it actually did make them more easy to listen to, although sadly I noticed some play from the right hand side earpiece raised connector and its loose.... Which is a bit poor considering I've only had them a few days....
> So sadly these are now booked for a return.


Sorry to hear your ZSX need changing  
I really like mine, think I might like them better now than C12 which wasn't the case at first!
Really exited for the ZAX and what that is going to sound like. 
In UK the ZAX is showing up on Amazon + eBay but coming from China. (No prime etc) 
How long roughly do KZ's take to populate into UK warehouses for local distribution from when they are released?


----------



## FutureLegend70 (Aug 31, 2020)

Dave Drums said:


> ZSX are really quite good - I'm really exited for the ZAX though!
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear your ZSX need changing
> ...


Thankfully it wasn't the Zsx that wanted changing, it's the Pro, as it was them I tried the upgrade cable in first. so they're going back tomorrow. Only a week old too!
Well usually doesn't take That long, give them a couple of weeks and they'll appear usually.
Know what you mean about the prime, I'm not one for waiting either 😜


----------



## unifutomaki (Aug 31, 2020)

astermk said:


> LuckyLZ Store has a $10 off coupon on them right now on AliExpress: https://twitter.com/lucky52143915/status/1299061062705147904
> 
> Extremely tempting for $50 flat.






Well darn. ZAX Black ordered. Even the (kinda ugly) CA16 didn't hit these prices during last week's sale and the TRN VX remains, well, the most expensive of the 7BA 1DD entrants. Even though I really don't need another IEM I doubt a deal like this will come by again anytime soon! 47.80 USD when all is said and done


----------



## astermk

unifutomaki said:


> Well darn. ZAX Black ordered. Even the (kinda ugly) CA16 didn't hit these prices during last week's sale and the TRN VX remains, well, the most expensive of the 7BA 1DD entrants. Even though I really don't need another IEM I doubt a deal like this will come by again anytime soon! 47.80 USD when all is said and done


I got a pair for me too even though I also have a CA16 that's STILL stuck in shipping. Came out to $49 for me tho, $50 minus a $ for ordering through the app.

TRN VX are actually 1DD 6BA, on top of also having an unpleasantly shrill tuning and sloppy imaging, apparently.

ZAX price is an absolute steal considering the CA16 is going for a higher price than that, and CCA's sister models are generally cheaper.


----------



## Dave Drums

astermk said:


> I got a pair for me too even though I also have a CA16 that's STILL stuck in shipping. Came out to $49 for me tho, $50 minus a $ for ordering through the app.
> 
> TRN VX are actually 1DD 6BA, on top of also having an unpleasantly shrill tuning and sloppy imaging, apparently.
> 
> ZAX price is an absolute steal considering the CA16 is going for a higher price than that, and CCA's sister models are generally cheaper.



I'm wondering about the tuning - it's going to be super interesting once the first few reviews surface. I reckon there's a lot of people really tempted to get these right now that just need that little push of user praise to send them into the basket... 

From the graph it looks like they are going for more relaxed treble again I think?
I think the low end is going to get the same treatment the ZSX got compared to the C12.
In other words ZAX more sub bass than CA16
This is all speculation though!


----------



## astermk

Dave Drums said:


> I'm wondering about the tuning - it's going to be super interesting once the first few reviews surface. I reckon there's a lot of people really tempted to get these right now that just need that little push of user praise to send them into the basket...
> 
> From the graph it looks like they are going for more relaxed treble again I think?
> I think the low end is going to get the same treatment the ZSX got compared to the C12.
> ...


I think they're going for a mids-focused spacious sound - they're open back, out of 7 BAs, a whopping S I X are doing midrange, and they call 4 of them "wide sound field". I could be wrong but that seems to be the intention.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Ordered the silver/blue ZAX using that $10 coupon code from twitter...

Love my KZ-ATE's...hope these surpass them


----------



## Dave Drums

courierdriver said:


> Yeah...I think the problem is that they use that .75mm connector style, when the 2pin standard is ..78mm. You can buy alot of. 78 2 pin cables (even using that funky QDC connector style), but I think that the slightly larger .78 that is the norm, might be causing the smaller .75 2 pin in the KZ'S and TRN's to cause too much outward pressure on the connector shells, which is causing them to break. I'd really like to see any companies that are currently using ..75mm connectors to switch to the .78 standard 2 pin, and design their iems around that cable connection standard.



Info like this is very much appreciated and I completely agree! @courierdriver 
I've a set of ZSX and C12 that I want to swap out cable+change to foam tips (my favorite are Shure Olives)
I periodically go to order either foam tips or the upgrade cable, only to get blinded by science (or maths!!)
QDC etc I'm totally in the dark as to what to pick. 

Putting the original KZ cable on the eartips required quite a fair bit of pressure, I'm clocking a fair few people on here reporting breaking connections on their earphones by swapping out cables and I'm cautious to order a cable that is already .3mm out
It's standard issue for people on here to pick up aftermarket cables and tips, changing them out from the get go....
My question is: If you have picked up a pair of ZSX and C12 today, how do you know which tip size and cable type to put in your basket along with them?


----------



## Slater (Aug 31, 2020)

Dave Drums said:


> ...I'm clocking a fair few people on here reporting breaking connections on their earphones by swapping out cables and I'm cautious to order a cable that is already .3mm out...



It’s 0.03mm difference, not 0.30mm.

For comparison, an average human hair is 0.06mm thickness, and an average piece of cheapy thin plain office copier paper is 0.05mm.

So the 0.03mm we’re talking about is a very, very small difference. Some would even say it’s a negligible difference.

That’s why I believe more and more that the relatively small % of issues are caused by heat damage from the soldering process during manufacturing.


----------



## courierdriver

Dave Drums said:


> Info like this is very much appreciated and I completely agree! @courierdriver
> I've a set of ZSX and C12 that I want to swap out cable+change to foam tips (my favorite are Shure Olives)
> I periodically go to order either foam tips or the upgrade cable, only to get blinded by science (or maths!!)
> QDC etc I'm totally in the dark as to what to pick.
> ...


Well, as to tips; that will require alot of trial and error to figure out whether you want to go with silicones or foams. Then there is the size and what fits best for your ears. I've got several iems and they all come with various tips included (some with both silicon and foams, in small to large sizes). My advice is to play around with what has been supplied first, so you can get an idea of what size and materials (ie.silicon vs.foam) give you a better seal and more comfortable fit. Many members prefer silicones; me personally, I prefer foams...especially Newbee foams. I've tried many silicones (including Spinfits, which I found on the expensive side) and don't like how they make my ear canals sweaty. For me, I prefer the Newbee foams and use them on all my iems. They are a nice memory foam with a smooth outer texture, that mold themselves to the insides of my ears and are very comfortable to use for several hours. Not very expensive either (compared to other name brands like Comply). Like $6-10 for 6 pairs. I really like the isolation with the Newbees too.
As far as cables go (especially with the KZ, CCA and TRN brands); if you want anything that is a real sonic upgrade, you will need to take a chance on a. 78, QDC 2 pin upgrade cable. The supposed upgrade cables from KZ or TRN that come with the 0.75 QDC connectors, aren't really much of an upgrade, sound wise. Just get a good 0.78 cable that will make a difference to what you want to better for your iems. There are many recommendations, reviews and comments on the "Cheap, low end, otherwise bang for the buck" thread here on Headfi. Once you find a cable that checks your boxes; just stick with it. The more you unplug and replace cables, the more your iem's connections will weaken, which may result in failure.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> Well, as to tips; that will require alot of trial and error to figure out whether you want to go with silicones or foams. Then there is the size and what fits best for your ears. I've got several iems and they all come with various tips included (some with both silicon and foams, in small to large sizes). My advice is to play around with what has been supplied first, so you can get an idea of what size and materials (ie.silicon vs.foam) give you a better seal and more comfortable fit. Many members prefer silicones; me personally, I prefer foams...especially Newbee foams. I've tried many silicones (including Spinfits, which I found on the expensive side) and don't like how they make my ear canals sweaty. For me, I prefer the Newbee foams and use them on all my iems. They are a nice memory foam with a smooth outer texture, that mold themselves to the insides of my ears and are very comfortable to use for several hours. Not very expensive either (compared to other name brands like Comply). Like $6-10 for 6 pairs. I really like the isolation with the Newbees too.
> As far as cables go (especially with the KZ, CCA and TRN brands); if you want anything that is a real sonic upgrade, you will need to take a chance on a. 78, QDC 2 pin upgrade cable. The supposed upgrade cables from KZ or TRN that come with the 0.75 QDC connectors, aren't really much of an upgrade, sound wise. Just get a good 0.78 cable that will make a difference to what you want to better for your iems. There are many recommendations, reviews and comments on the "Cheap, low end, otherwise bang for the buck" thread here on Headfi. Once you find a cable that checks your boxes; just stick with it. The more you unplug and replace cables, the more your iem's connections will weaken, which may result in failure.



Have you tried the new ultra foam tips from Tennmak? I usually hate foam tips, but these have totally changed my mind on foam tips.

I know you’re such a big fan of foam tips, you should really give them a try.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0G1hTd


----------



## IEMusic

Slater said:


> Have you tried the new ultra foam tips from Tennmak? I usually hate foam tips, but these have totally changed my mind on foam tips.
> 
> I know you’re such a big fan of foam tips, you should really give them a try.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0G1hTd


I ordered some recently.


----------



## whitete

Slater said:


> Have you tried the new ultra foam tips from Tennmak? I usually hate foam tips, but these have totally changed my mind on foam tips.
> 
> I know you’re such a big fan of foam tips, you should really give them a try.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0G1hTd



Thank you for this Slater. I just ordered some!


----------



## courierdriver

whitete said:


> Thank you for this Slater. I just ordered some!


Yeah, thanks for the link. They seem inexpensive enough, so I'll put them in my cart and give them a try at the end of September. This month is a no go though; since I already bought over $100 worth of iems and cables from their last sale. Thanks for the rec, tho.


----------



## IEMusic

I find foam tips interesting.  While I like building a collection of high quality silicone ear tips, as I think it’s an important part of this hobby, I haven’t been a big fan of foam tips, but I’m starting to like them more now,  What’s interesting is that I don’t like the name brand foam tips like Comply and Dekoni.   The Dekoni lose their “memory“/slow rebound capability over time, even w/o much use, and I haven’t found either the fit or the sound of various Comply tips good for me.   The best foam tips for me are cheap generic tips that I get on Amazon.  I’m looking forward to trying these Tennmak tips.


----------



## Slater

IEMusic said:


> I find foam tips interesting.  While I like building a collection of high quality silicone ear tips, as I think it’s an important part of this hobby, I haven’t been a big fan of foam tips, but I’m starting to like them more now,  What’s interesting is that I don’t like the name brand foam tips like Comply and Dekoni.   The Dekoni lose their “memory“/slow rebound capability over time, even w/o much use, and I haven’t found either the fit or the sound of various Comply tips good for me.   The best foam tips for me are cheap generic tips that I get on Amazon.  I’m looking forward to trying these Tennmak tips.



Well, I can’t speak for the long term characteristics of these tips, because I haven’t had them for months. But so far they have been awesome.

Pretty much all foam breaks down eventually. I have old sponge earpads that just disintegrate into dust in my hands. But these Tennmak tips are cheap enough that if I need to buy a new set every year because they lose their rebound, it’s no big deal.

We’ll see how well they hold up long term.


----------



## lgcubana

IEMusic said:


> I find foam tips interesting.  While I like building a collection of high quality silicone ear tips, as I think it’s an important part of this hobby, I haven’t been a big fan of foam tips, but I’m starting to like them more now,  What’s interesting is that I don’t like the name brand foam tips like Comply and Dekoni.   The Dekoni lose their “memory“/slow rebound capability over time, even w/o much use, and I haven’t found either the fit or the sound of various Comply tips good for me.   The best foam tips for me are cheap generic tips that I get on Amazon.  I’m looking forward to trying these Tennmak tips.


On the Tennmak Ultra strong, try both the 4.5 mm & the 4.9 mm. That .4 mm difference (of inner diameter) really makes a difference.


----------



## Slater

lgcubana said:


> On the Tennmak Ultra strong, try both the 4.5 mm & the 4.9 mm. That .4 mm difference (of inner diameter) really makes a difference.



I only went with the 4.5mm. One, because I wanted to try them out first. And 2, because I figured it would stretch and fit a little bit tighter on my 5mm nozzles.

Now that I know I like the tips, I am going to order a pack of 4.9mm. I’m also going to order a S size. The reason is that some people use foams like silicone tips, where they just insert them into their ear without squishing them. I originally bought M, which is the size I usually use. And they fit fine when I squish them and let them expand. But I’m curious to try S to see how well they work by just sticking them in without squishing them.


----------



## Howell29

Slater said:


> I only went with the 4.5mm. One, because I wanted to try them out first. And 2, because I figured it would stretch and fit a little bit tighter on my 5mm nozzles.
> 
> Now that I know I like the tips, I am going to order a pack of 4.9mm. I’m also going to order a S size. The reason is that some people use foams like silicone tips, where they just insert them into their ear without squishing them. I originally bought M, which is the size I usually use. And they fit fine when I squish them and let them expand. But I’m curious to try S to see how well they work by just sticking them in without squishing them.



Yah I don't squish my medium TRN foam tips too. The large ones I just avoid. Plus, does squishing foam tips affect the sound?


----------



## Slater

Howell29 said:


> Plus, does squishing foam tips affect the sound?



No, you only squish them to insert them. Then they expand back out and conform to your ear.


----------



## Howell29 (Sep 1, 2020)

... wrong thread ...


----------



## darmanastartes

Linsoul is sending me the ZAX and the CCA C10 Pro for review.


----------



## Dave Drums

Slater said:


> It’s 0.03mm difference, not 0.30mm.
> 
> For comparison, an average human hair is 0.06mm thickness, and an average piece of cheapy thin plain office copier paper is 0.05mm.
> 
> ...



Oops my bad! Thanks for the info! I failed maths  
So basically I should actually avoid the exact .75 cables (I almost bought one) and go for a .78 - 
All I really want from it is a tangle free experience lol


----------



## Sebasistan

IEMusic said:


> I find foam tips interesting.  While I like building a collection of high quality silicone ear tips, as I think it’s an important part of this hobby, I haven’t been a big fan of foam tips, but I’m starting to like them more now,  What’s interesting is that I don’t like the name brand foam tips like Comply and Dekoni.   The Dekoni lose their “memory“/slow rebound capability over time, even w/o much use, and I haven’t found either the fit or the sound of various Comply tips good for me.   The best foam tips for me are cheap generic tips that I get on Amazon.  I’m looking forward to trying these Tennmak tips.



I am so split on foam tips. On the one hand, Comply tips are among the rare tips that don't hurt my ears. On the other hand, they just fall apart after a month. I just got my order of Mandarine Symbios, which apparently just don't come in a size small enough for my dainty little ear channels. They isolate well and do sound pretty good - but they're just a BIT too big to go all the way in without being painful - which gets really bad on the AS16s with their giant nozzle. 

I'll try those Tennmak ones. At least they come in a more appropriate quantity compared to Comply. 

As for aftermarket tips, my vote in general so far goes towards Spinfits.


----------



## astermk

darmanastartes said:


> Linsoul is sending me the ZAX and the CCA C10 Pro for review.


Looking forward to that! The C10 Pro are freaking gorgeous and if they sound at least as good as the ZS10 Pro they should be an easy recommendation in the price range.


----------



## courierdriver

astermk said:


> Looking forward to that! The C10 Pro are freaking gorgeous and if they sound at least as good as the ZS10 Pro they should be an easy recommendation in the price range.


Agreed and that's exactly why I bought them. I like the color combo, the driver layout looks similar to ZS10 PRO; so I figured they would either sound the same as the ZS10 PRO or maybe just a tad different. Looking forward to get my set, for sure.


----------



## astermk

My ZAX shipped roughly a day after ordering. Dang fast! I mean, it's still gonna be stuck in the spider web of shipping for like 2 months, but I'm still quite chuffed.


----------



## courierdriver

astermk said:


> My ZAX shipped roughly a day after ordering. Dang fast! I mean, it's still gonna be stuck in the spider web of shipping for like 2 months, but I'm still quite chuffed.


My CCA C10 PRO also shipped less than 8 hours after I ordered it. Got a message today from Aliexpress saying that it cleared customs (although it's ambiguous in that it never tells you whose customs it cleared...guessing it's on it's way out of China). There's no way that it can already be in Canada, when I only placed the order 6 days ago. But hey, it bodes well for quick delivery. Hopefully, it will show up early next week.


----------



## TheVortex

My C10 Pro should be delivered by Friday and looking forward to them and to see the actual difference to the normal C10.


----------



## FutureLegend70

Got round to finally listening to the Zst (which I've never owned previously) and the new Zstx, 
Enjoying both really, the Zst (Pro) came with a really nice pink cable, very impressed with the sound actually. Great for rock and metal. 
As for the X I'm pretty much enjoying them too, more balanced than the T but lovely sound, great crunchy guitar for a bit of Black sabbath.


----------



## ChoppedBroccoli

TheVortex said:


> My C10 Pro should be delivered by Friday and looking forward to them and to see the actual difference to the normal C10.



Waiting patiently  ! Happy with my Fiio FH3, but probably want to switch my iBasso IT00 for the C10 Pro or ZAX.


----------



## DynamicEars

I'm waiting someone to confirm if ZAX have real semi open back vents


----------



## rggz

DynamicEars said:


> I'm waiting someone to confirm if ZAX have real semi open back vents



That's an IRL pic:






Zoom in:


It doesn't look fake "vents"  to me.


----------



## unifutomaki

DynamicEars said:


> I'm waiting someone to confirm if ZAX have real semi open back vents



My ZAX has just shipped, so we shall find out soon enough


----------



## Slater

rggz said:


> That's an IRL pic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed, they look like real vents.

KZ has some the exact same thing to previous models. A fine stainless mesh behind open vents.

They did the exact same design on the ED9 and HDS3, among other models.


----------



## DynamicEars

Yeah saw that picture the other day, hopefully its real semi open back goodness. Just want to get real confirmation but looks like real. I don't mind sacrificing isolation for air, big good trade off deal for me, of course maybe not good for someone looking for good passive isolation


----------



## astermk

DynamicEars said:


> of course maybe not good for someone looking for good passive isolation



They have plenty of KZ/CCA models to choose from, but it's been literal years since the last open KZ so I don't see the problem.

I also don't see a reason to believe those are fake vents. I mean...You can literally see right through them into the inside of the IEM.


----------



## DynamicEars

astermk said:


> They have plenty of KZ/CCA models to choose from, but it's been literal years since the last open KZ so I don't see the problem.
> 
> I also don't see a reason to believe those are fake vents. I mean...You can literally see right through them into the inside of the IEM.



A lot of chifi with fake vents that made me skeptical actually, for example trn v90. They still have vent but not as big as the "design"


----------



## Mouseman

Dammit, now I'm going to have to buy them. My Terminators are going to be terminated...


----------



## whitete

Mouseman said:


> Dammit, now I'm going to have to buy them. My Terminators are going to be terminated...



Same!


----------



## moleface (Sep 3, 2020)

I posted here about a bad experience with my ZSXs awhile back, where the right dynamic driver blew after only a few weeks and started producing loud distortion.

I just wanted to say that I resolved the issue, in case anyone is reading this thread in the future and wonders about KZ's customer service.

I contacted KZ through their official store on AliExpress and they requested a video of the issue. The buzzing was audible in my clip, so they sent me a new right IEM free of charge. The replacement arrived last week.

Nice. Seems that their customer service is on-point. 

I missed these. Electronic music sounds eargasmic on them.


----------



## Slater

moleface said:


> I posted here about a bad experience with my ZSXs awhile back, where the right dynamic driver blew after only a few weeks and started producing loud distortion.
> 
> I just wanted to say that I resolved the issue, in case anyone is reading this thread in the future and wonders about KZ's customer service.
> 
> ...



You didn’t burn them in on full volume by any chance, did you?


----------



## moleface

Slater said:


> You didn’t burn them in on full volume by any chance, did you?



Who'd use full volume? No way that any driver is gonna handle THAT. 

I did leave them for about eight hours with pink noise at moderate volume the night I got them, then I listened to music with them on a Fiio M6 at around 50% volume over the course of a week. When they failed, I hadn't used them in over a week and I'd logged barely any time on them.

I've burned in literally every pair of headphones I've ever owned, and even $5 ones held up, so it didn't dawn on me until now that the pink noise burn-in might be related. Yeah, I know it's possibly BS, but I like doing it.

For what it's worth, my KZ ZSTs were burned in much more aggressively and were fine.


----------



## courierdriver

rggz said:


> That's an IRL pic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn! I just bought the new CCA C10 PRO and a replacement ZS10 PRO (which sadly died recently in the left channel), along with a couple of upgrade cables. Now I want this also. Oh well...11/11 sale coming soon. Might be an early Christmas gift for me.


----------



## Keputs

This is a screenshot of the ZAX from shenzhenaudio.com.  So are those vents for real?


----------



## astermk

Keputs said:


> This is a screenshot of the ZAX from shenzhenaudio.com.  So are those vents for real?


It looks like it: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...7d380a5409d342ff92_2048x2048.jpg?v=1599031812

I wish someone would take a real life photo of the black one. I actively hate how the silver/blue looks in person, so plasticky. I hope the black one looks classier, that's the one I ordered.


----------



## TheVortex

astermk said:


> It looks like it: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...7d380a5409d342ff92_2048x2048.jpg?v=1599031812
> 
> I wish someone would take a real life photo of the black one. I actively hate how the silver/blue looks in person, so plasticky. I hope the black one looks classier, that's the one I ordered.



I will be getting a black ZAX so I will post pictures whenever I get one. The blue looks a little cheap and I like the more subtle black variant.


----------



## khighly

moleface said:


> I posted here about a bad experience with my ZSXs awhile back, where the right dynamic driver blew after only a few weeks and started producing loud distortion.
> 
> I just wanted to say that I resolved the issue, in case anyone is reading this thread in the future and wonders about KZ's customer service.
> 
> ...




I had a left side of their first bluetooth venture (forgot its model #) go bad and they sent me another single IEM. As long as you order from the official KZ store, it seems their customer service is A+.


----------



## khighly

Anyone have any experience with the CCA bluetooth iem's? The port on the side looks like a mic port and if they were able to make a usable good quality mic for phone calls, I'd be intriged.


----------



## DynamicEars

TheVortex said:


> I will be getting a black ZAX so I will post pictures whenever I get one. The blue looks a little cheap and I like the more subtle black variant.



I also almost grab the black knight zsn pro X

Lucky (or hated moves) KZ release ZAX in similar color just a few weeks after. More interested in ZAX due semi open back (if true) and driver configs.
Gonna grab the black ZAX as well as soon as real user here confirmed if they have real semi open back with large vents.


----------



## jaydm99 (Sep 5, 2020)

KZ ZAX in the flesh


----------



## DynamicEars

jaydm99 said:


> KZ ZAX in the flesh




"the screen (vents) doesn't seems to be functional" he said


----------



## DynamicEars

I screen Capture the FR graph from him, credit to BGGAR of course..

Left is ZAX, Right red line is BL-05, blue is BL-03.. seems like ZAX tuned similar to BL-05, that spike resonance peak and over 8khz, just perceived as air, large soundstage. Umm.. ill wait FR comparison with ZSX since he don't have one, maybe wait for others.


Black Knight Shell looks awesome though


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> I screen Capture the FR graph from him, credit to BGGAR of course..
> 
> Left is ZAX, Right red line is BL-05, blue is BL-03.. seems like ZAX tuned similar to BL-05, that spike resonance peak and over 8khz, just perceived as air, large soundstage. Umm.. ill wait FR comparison with ZSX since he don't have one, maybe wait for others.
> 
> ...



Hard to compare graphs for single DDs like the BL-03 and BL-05 to hybrids/multi BAs like ZAX though. There's gonna be a lot of stuff that we can't glean from the graphs such as bass decay, transients, details, instrument separation, timbre, imaging etc.

But if that's the case for the FR, I think I might give the ZAX a miss, the BL-05 was a bit too hot in the upper mids/treble for me.


----------



## DynamicEars (Sep 5, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Hard to compare graphs for single DDs like the BL-03 and BL-05 to hybrids/multi BAs like ZAX though. There's gonna be a lot of stuff that we can't glean from the graphs such as bass decay, transients, details, instrument separation, timbre, imaging etc.
> 
> But if that's the case for the FR, I think I might give the ZAX a miss, the BL-05 was a bit too hot in the upper mids/treble for me.



yeah of course, i mean i just grab them meant for signature comparison. Of course technically the ZAX will be better, even ZSX is better than BL03.
But tuning and timbre is better on BL03

Edit : I was going to compare the ZAX with ZSX but BGGAR dont have ZSX graph, and i just found BL-05/03 graph from him


This is the ZSX from Crin, cant compare directly as they are not from same rig and have differences, not calibrated to look similar. 

But from my observation, looks like they sounded similarly, with ZAX maybe have larger stage and more airy.

Let's wait then


----------



## astermk

DynamicEars said:


> "the screen (vents) doesn't seems to be functional" he said


I don't understand how it's physically possible for a vent to "not be functional". If there's a hole in the shell, it's going to leak sound and open up the headphone. What more is there to talk about?


----------



## nraymond

astermk said:


> I don't understand how it's physically possible for a vent to "not be functional". If there's a hole in the shell, it's going to leak sound and open up the headphone. What more is there to talk about?



I think it's a question of whether the vent is over a piece of solid translucent plastic or whether it's over an opening into the shell.


----------



## jaydm99

astermk said:


> I don't understand how it's physically possible for a vent to "not be functional". If there's a hole in the shell, it's going to leak sound and open up the headphone. What more is there to talk about?


----------



## Leo-rume

astermk said:


> I don't understand how it's physically possible for a vent to "not be functional". If there's a hole in the shell, it's going to leak sound and open up the headphone. What more is there to talk about?


For what it's worth, when I had my cca c10, I lost one of the back plates, so I decided to take the other one off too and use them entirely without back plates. The sound was almost unaffected, change was very slight and you'd have to actively listen to notice it. More surprisingly is the fact that the sound leakage was also really very minimal compared to "with backplates." Similar story with isolation too. My theory then was that the drivers were crammed so tightly together close to and around the nozzle entrance that the backplate had close to zero effect on the sound. The drivers themselves were basically serving the function of the plates. Maybe similar situation here, I don't know. Just guessing.


----------



## astermk

Leo-rume said:


> For what it's worth, when I had my cca c10, I lost one of the back plates, so I decided to take the other one off too and use them entirely without back plates. The sound was almost unaffected, change was very slight and you'd have to actively listen to notice it. More surprisingly is the fact that the sound leakage was also really very minimal compared to "with backplates." Similar story with isolation too. My theory then was that the drivers were crammed so tightly together close to and around the nozzle entrance that the backplate had close to zero effect on the sound. The drivers themselves were basically serving the function of the plates. Maybe similar situation here, I don't know. Just guessing.


Yeah, that sounds logical. The vents look very real to me, and I think it'd be much more obvious if there was a clear plastic between the metal faceplate and the housing for the drivers. BGGAR is describing them as having a big soundstage either way.


----------



## DynamicEars

astermk said:


> Yeah, that sounds logical. The vents look very real to me, and I think it'd be much more obvious if there was a clear plastic between the metal faceplate and the housing for the drivers. BGGAR is describing them as having a big soundstage either way.



That's what i scared from the start that the vents is only "fake vents" so they actually close the shell with clear plastic shell cover and then double it with a metal cover that looked lile having large vents but actually they aren't vents, just "fake vents" for aesthetic purpose.


----------



## astermk

DynamicEars said:


> That's what i scared from the start that the vents is only "fake vents" so they actually close the shell with clear plastic shell cover and then double it with a metal cover that looked lile having large vents but actually they aren't vents, just "fake vents" for aesthetic purpose.


Here's the thing: While you can't really see very well, on KZ's official "exploded" IEM render, it looks like the part where the plastic shell connects to the metal faceplate is hollow, so the vents are real unless this picture is intentionally misleading. Another clue that the vents are real is that on the silver/blue model, you can perfectly see the gold color of the 2 pin connector interface through the topmost vent, and the plastic shell is blue, so I think it would discolor it if it weren't hollow.


----------



## DynamicEars

Thats why i prefer real user here to share the experience rather than guessing out with no definite answer.
Anyone getting the ZAX soon?


----------



## Mouseman

DynamicEars said:


> Thats why i prefer real user here to share the experience rather than guessing out with no definite answer.
> Anyone getting the ZAX soon?


I've got mine on the way.


----------



## astermk

A few FR graphs courtesy of BGGAR on recent KZ/CCA models:

CCA CA16:



KZ ZAX



CCA C10 Pro:



ZAX tuning looks intentful for maximizing the effect of soundstage and "airy" treble without causing sibilance, but it looks uneven to an extent that would be bothersome. C10 Pro is a much more extreme version of the ZAX tuning and looks downright awful if I'm honest. Then again I don't know the scale of these graphs so maybe it's not as drastic as it seems.


----------



## PhonoPhi

astermk said:


> A few FR graphs courtesy of BGGAR on recent KZ/CCA models:
> 
> CCA CA16:
> 
> ...


If C10 Pro will eclipse ZS10 Pro in "fun" that would be really great!

(I ordered it and hope to receive it within few days)

CA16 with its very polite treble and amazingly smooth DD/BA transition is a great C10 upgrade for me, C10+++ 

So C10 Pro upgrading ZS10 Pro would be really great!


----------



## courierdriver

PhonoPhi said:


> If C10 Pro will eclipse ZS10 Pro in "fun" that would be really great!
> 
> (I ordered it and hope to receive it within few days)
> 
> ...


Personally, I loved my ZS10 PRO till it died in the left channel about a week and a half ago. I immediately ordered another set, in the Glare Blue shell. These are my favorite go to iems for the past year and a half. Funny thing is: they died a week after I bought the CCA C10 PRO on the Aliexpress sale. The C10 PRO will arrive within the next week and my ZS10 PRO will probably arrive a week later. I hope that the C10 PRO will at least sound as good as the ZS10 PRO. I love the look of the faceplate on the C10 PRO and think it looks even better than the Royal Blue KZ ZS10 PRO version that was only produced in a limited quantity.


----------



## courierdriver

In the meantime, while I'm waiting for the C10 PRO and ZS10 PRO, I'm swapping between my TFZ No.3 and Nicehck NX7. Both these iems are superb and while different,  both give me a similar experience to the ZS10 PRO.


----------



## Pyrogenetix

For what it's worth, I'm a mandarin native speaker and contacted the KZ official store on Taobao and had their customer service verify and the answer is yes, the KZ ZAX is vented on the shell or housing itself and not just the faceplate. Exactly how many vents is a mystery but I can only assume that it's not as many as displayed on the faceplate otherwise it would leak a lot of sound wouldn't it. I'll be ordering mine now.


----------



## astermk

Pyrogenetix said:


> For what it's worth, I'm a mandarin native speaker and contacted the KZ official store on Taobao and had their customer service verify and the answer is yes, the KZ ZAX is vented on the shell or housing itself and not just the faceplate. Exactly how many vents is a mystery but I can only assume that it's not as many as displayed on the faceplate otherwise it would leak a lot of sound wouldn't it. I'll be ordering mine now.


Hey, if it achieves an open back-like soundstage without actually leaking out as much sound, that's an absolute win in my book. FR graph looks like the stage is huge, because that 10-13khz mountain is exactly the region that mainly creates the perception of soundstage.


----------



## unifutomaki

Pyrogenetix said:


> For what it's worth, I'm a mandarin native speaker and contacted the KZ official store on Taobao and had their customer service verify and the answer is yes, the KZ ZAX is vented on the shell or housing itself and not just the faceplate. Exactly how many vents is a mystery but I can only assume that it's not as many as displayed on the faceplate otherwise it would leak a lot of sound wouldn't it. I'll be ordering mine now.



Even more excited to receive my ZAX now


----------



## unifutomaki

The KZ EDX has gone on sale, and for a no-brainer price too.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

unifutomaki said:


> The KZ EDX has gone on sale, and for a no-brainer price too.



Hitting buy now! 🤩


----------



## Slater (Sep 7, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> The KZ EDX has gone on sale, and for a no-brainer price too.



That’s like old school KZ prices 

I hope people won’t expect some crazy giant killer, but for under $10, I’m sure it will be perfect for a knock around dynamic set!

That white looks as clean and crisp as a new dress shirt


----------



## mbwilson111

Slater said:


> That’s like old school KZ prices
> 
> I hope people won’t expect some crazy giant killer, but for under $10, I’m sure it will be perfect for a knock around dynamic set!
> 
> That white looks as clean and crisp as a new dress shirt



I just ordered the black.


----------



## Tonymac136

mbwilson111 said:


> I just ordered the black.



I too just ordered the black. Looking forward to these.


----------



## TheVortex (Sep 7, 2020)

Tonymac136 said:


> I too just ordered the black. Looking forward to these.



I might go for white as black might be a mega finger print magnet and this is cheaper than I thought it would have been. Wonder if they use the same driver as the QKZ VK4?


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> I might go for white as black might me a mega finger print magnet and this is cheaper than I thought it would have been.



I went with white because the only other white iem I have is the KZ HD9. Also, the black one looks too similar to the black and gold No 3 I have.

Sure, I know the sound is most important, and not the color. But I figured I needed some sort of justification between the color choices.


----------



## Kris77 (Sep 7, 2020)

I ordered white with a copper cable. For this price you regret not buying.


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I just ordered the black.


Cool...and welcome back to these threads! Hope you are doing well and happy to see you back on Headfi. We have all been missing you and Panda here on Headfi. Very happy to see that at least one of you is back. I'm sure that he would have wanted you to keep being a contributing member to the threads.


----------



## mbwilson111

courierdriver said:


> Cool...and welcome back to these threads! Hope you are doing well and happy to see you back on Headfi. We have all been missing you and Panda here on Headfi. Very happy to see that at least one of you is back. I'm sure that he would have wanted you to keep being a contributing member to the threads.



I have been lurking the whole time but I have unsubscribed from several threads that go too fast or that I am no longer interested in.  I will not be ordering much.  I have way too much gear here already... especially now that I have to deal with all of his stuff.  It is overwhelming and upsetting.


----------



## darmanastartes

The KZ ZAX and CCA C10 Pro arrived today. I'm very impressed with the ZAX. It's the best KZ I think I've heard. Haven't listened to the C10 Pro yet. 
Measurements below, including comparisons with each other and their predecessors. 
CCA C10 Pro



 
CCA C10 Pro vs CCA C10



KZ ZAX



CCA C10 Pro vs KZ ZAX


 
KZ ZAX vs KZ ZSX


----------



## DynamicEars

darmanastartes said:


> The KZ ZAX and CCA C10 Pro arrived today. I'm very impressed with the ZAX. It's the best KZ I think I've heard. Haven't listened to the C10 Pro yet.
> Measurements below, including comparisons with each other and their predecessors.
> CCA C10 Pro
> 
> ...



Woww.. more balanced KZ! one of the rarest KZ that have pinna gain less than 10db, a nice try. And boost and dips on high mids and highs are nice too, presence and details and clarity on around 4khz, with dip at 5khz, treble details on  around 6khz (a bit lower is great but i cant complain) then anti sibilance dip right on until 7khz and boosted 8khz for air for soundstage and gradually down from there still with boost and dips.

and how is that grills on the back plate? are they real or just for aesthetic? any differences when you securely close that vents?

Thanks for your early graph.


----------



## rggz

DynamicEars said:


> Woww.. more balanced KZ! one of the rarest KZ that have pinna gain less than 10db, a nice try. And boost and dips on high mids and highs are nice too, presence and details and clarity on around 4khz, with dip at 5khz, treble details on  around 6khz (a bit lower is great but i cant complain) then anti sibilance dip right on until 7khz and boosted 8khz for air for soundstage and gradually down from there still with boost and dips.
> 
> and how is that grills on the back plate? are they real or just for aesthetic? any differences when you securely close that vents?
> 
> Thanks for your early graph.



Less than 10dB?


----------



## lgcubana

@darmanastartes (as @DynamicEars inquired), is the playback affected, if you cover the slotted faceplates ?

We needs to know


----------



## courierdriver

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been lurking the whole time but I have unsubscribed from several threads that go too fast or that I am no longer interested in.  I will not be ordering much.  I have way too much gear here already... especially now that I have to deal with all of his stuff.  It is overwhelming and upsetting.


I understand. But still want to thank you for continuing to be a part of this site. Much love from all of us here on Headfi. I know I speak on behalf of many, when I say, we also all miss him very much. It's great though, when we have the opportunity to hear from you too. For me, personally, I feel like his legacy lives on, when I see you still active. Until the next time you decide to post...stay strong and know that we all love you and Panda. God bless you both!


----------



## DynamicEars (Sep 7, 2020)

rggz said:


> Less than 10dB?




Not sure about that, i saw the BGGAR graph also the other day, dont want to rush it but i pay attention on this lol. need more graph to confirm for early sweep pass to buy. Wait, the BGGAR graph is entirely different with @darmanastartes . That ZAX graph of BGGAR looks similar to ZSX with more boosted upper end


----------



## rggz

DynamicEars said:


> Not sure about that, i saw the BGGAR graph also the other day, dont want to rush it but i pay attention on this lol. need more graph to confirm for early sweep pass to buy. Wait, the BGGAR graph is entirely different with @darmanastartes . That ZAX graph of BGGAR looks similar to ZSX with more boosted upper end



IIRC BGGAR uses an IEC711 clone and darma imm6 + compensation to mimic 711 coupler, so they're not relatable at all. But, I was seeing the BGGAR's graph for the UM MEST also has more upper-mids compared to the crin's graph which seems less boosted at the upper-mids. Either way, I was fine with the ZS10 Pro/ZSX pinna, so it doesn't bother me if it's near 10dB.


----------



## Assimilator702

astermk said:


> I don't understand how it's physically possible for a vent to "not be functional". If there's a hole in the shell, it's going to leak sound and open up the headphone. What more is there to talk about?



It’s not a large dynamic driver with the back open to the air. BA units have a tuning path either a tube or plastic channel. DD units in iems aren’t as open as a pair of full size headphones and even if they were the frequency range a DD plays( 20 HZ to 200 ish?) in a hybrid with 7 BA units does not have anything to do with wide soundstage. That would be much higher up in the frequency band. Somewhere in the treble above 5K.


----------



## Pyrogenetix

Assimilator702 said:


> It’s not a large dynamic driver with the back open to the air. BA units have a tuning path either a tube or plastic channel. DD units in iems aren’t as open as a pair of full size headphones and even if they were the frequency range a DD plays( 20 HZ to 200 ish?) in a hybrid with 7 BA units does not have anything to do with wide soundstage. That would be much higher up in the frequency band. Somewhere in the treble above 5K.


So you're saying, whether or not the ZAX is a closed back housing, it doesn't affect soundstage at all?


----------



## chinmie

looks like we just have to wait for the folks that got the ZAX to tape those mesh screens and tell us if there's a difference in sound


----------



## astermk

Clear shell EDX popped up:


----------



## RikudouGoku

astermk said:


> Clear shell EDX popped up:


Oh damn, that looks nice!

(dont think I have seen any other single dd that is actually transparent)


----------



## darmanastartes

I don't think taping the vents makes a difference.


----------



## Dave Drums

darmanastartes said:


> I don't think taping the vents makes a difference.



ZAX 1st review and comparison now up on YouTube


----------



## DynamicEars

astermk said:


> Clear shell EDX popped up:



Looks high end this way!


----------



## lgcubana

darmanastartes said:


> I don't think taping the vents makes a difference.


Would you mind doing a more rudimentary test, for the vent‘s possible effect on sound stage ?

Stick the IEM in your ear (I know, this is a radical concept  ) and during playback, cover the vents with the pad of your finger(s).


----------



## Assimilator702

Pyrogenetix said:


> So you're saying, whether or not the ZAX is a closed back housing, it doesn't affect soundstage at all?



It should make no difference with the design of the iem. TRN BA5 is all BA and has the vent on the faceplate. Several single DD sets have the same vent on the faceplate and it makes no audible difference when it’s blocked vs open. It’s almost like say there was an above ground pool or water tower being drained with several large 6” holes at the bottom of the water line. Would 10 more holes a I’ve the water line  make the water drain faster?


----------



## Assimilator702

RikudouGoku said:


> Oh damn, that looks nice!
> 
> (dont think I have seen any other single dd that is actually transparent)


Pai Audio D2R or the OEM version that sells for 25% of the price. Beautiful shell and surprisingly decent for the amount of monstrous bass it has.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Assimilator702 said:


> Pai Audio D2R or the OEM version that sells for 25% of the price. Beautiful shell and surprisingly decent for the amount of monstrous bass it has.


oh yeah that one, but it isnt as clear and easy to see inside as the EDX.


----------



## astermk

darmanastartes said:


> I don't think taping the vents makes a difference.


When you say the ZAX is the best KZ you've tried and very impressive, what exactly are you comparing it to?


----------



## Slater

astermk said:


> Clear shell EDX popped up:



That figures, 1 day after I order the white. I would have preferred clear, so you can see all of the goodies inside


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

astermk said:


> Clear shell EDX popped up:


Dang! Would have paired brilliantly with my VS7 as ultra budget sibling 😆 if I like this one then I'd surely buy clear version as well. KZ should have added filters to it as well as an ode to its predecessor ED9. Would have blown away all competition in the sub $20 market IMO.


----------



## paulwasabii

Slater said:


> That figures, 1 day after I order the white. I would have preferred clear, so you can see all of the goodies inside


Went for the white yesterday when the price bottomed out around $7.30. Submitted a cancel request to get the clear. Find out within 24 hours if that goes thru.


----------



## Slater

paulwasabii said:


> Went for the white yesterday when the price bottomed out around $7.30. Submitted a cancel request to get the clear. Find out within 24 hours if that goes thru.



Ah, good point. I forgot about that


----------



## darmanastartes

astermk said:


> When you say the ZAX is the best KZ you've tried and very impressive, what exactly are you comparing it to?


Other KZ and KZ-affiliated IEMs I've heard include the KZ ZSX, CCA C10, Tripowin TP10, KZ AS10, KZ ATE, and KZ ED9.


----------



## darmanastartes

lgcubana said:


> Would you mind doing a more rudimentary test, for the vent‘s possible effect on sound stage ?
> 
> Stick the IEM in your ear (I know, this is a radical concept  ) and during playback, cover the vents with the pad of your finger(s).


No difference.


----------



## DynamicEars

darmanastartes said:


> No difference.



Last test, let the ZAX playing with music but don't put them in your ear, just hold them, then close the eartips nozzle (or nozzle if you are willing to take off the eartips)
Then try to listen from the "vents" if there are much sound leaking from the vents.

But so far looks like the "vents" are fake or just for aesthetic. I guess they have invisible cover in between grill vents and inner side.

Similar like other chifi that made "large vents" for aesthetic only. Like trn v90 for example, like what i scared before.


----------



## Nimweth

mbwilson111 said:


> I have been lurking the whole time but I have unsubscribed from several threads that go too fast or that I am no longer interested in.  I will not be ordering much.  I have way too much gear here already... especially now that I have to deal with all of his stuff.  It is overwhelming and upsetting.


That is understandable. But the purple BLON BL-03 might be of interest knowing that you are fond of that colour!


----------



## Nimweth

Is anyone able to compare the ZAX with the CCA CA16? That would be interesting.


----------



## lgcubana

Nimweth said:


> Is anyone able to compare the ZAX with the CCA CA16? That would be interesting.


There's a YouTube review by an ex HeadFier, comparing the two


----------



## boost3d

lgcubana said:


> There's a YouTube review by an ex HeadFier, comparing the two



For the lazy.


----------



## ricemanhk

been a looooong time since I posted here, my last KZ purchase was the AS10!  anyway, just ordered the ZAX as I was browsing items for 9/9 sale on taobao and came across it, the black ones look awesome!  just hope they aren't too big, I had to sell my ZS10 before as they hurt my ears after a while, though I think it's partly the size and partly the shape. hope to report here with my impressions once I get them!


----------



## Aparker2005

What foam tips would work with the CCA c16? I've been using the comply 500s with my kzs.


----------



## Slater

I can’t remember if this was already shared before:



K Z3 triple driver


----------



## Slater

Also, another color of EDX has popped up at a few sellers - Jade Green (listed as Blue in the product options):


----------



## seanwee

Slater said:


> Also, another color of EDX has popped up at a few sellers - Jade Green (listed as Blue in the product options):


It doesnt look like green or blue. This is greyish with gold lol


----------



## Slater

seanwee said:


> It doesnt look like green or blue. This is greyish with gold lol



Looked like green on my phone. I have the night mode on though, which removes blue light. Maybe that’s why it looks like jade green to me.

Anyways, it’s a new color nonetheless


----------



## chinmie

seanwee said:


> It doesnt look like green or blue. This is greyish with gold lol



looks like deep green to me, at least on that picture. we'll see if someone post the real picture


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> I can’t remember if this was already shared before:
> 
> 
> 
> K Z3 triple driver



is there any info on battery life yet?


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> I can’t remember if this was already shared before:
> 
> 
> 
> K Z3 triple driver





chinmie said:


> is there any info on battery life yet?




Its been shared quite some time ago, not long after Z1 was out, but there is no additional info since then. And after that the CCA CX10 is appeared out of nowhere, seems like specs and tech will be more or less similar to Z1 and CX10, not quite there for TWS, they need to improve many things, especially connection and batt life


----------



## astermk

Every single one of their TWS models is useless until they actually get decent battery life and can maintain a proper connection, because those are kind of the two main things a TWS NEEDS to be at least decent at.

I like the brand logo though. I wonder why they never put that on their wired IEMs. A much classier branding than 16 UNITS BREAKTHROUGH CONFIGURATION or whatever they're writing on the shells nowadays.

EDX are like $7 with shipping on Ali right now. That's comical. I'm only holding off on getting one cuz new colors keep popping up.


----------



## Turkleton (Sep 10, 2020)

Slater said:


> I was looking at replacement QDC sockets on Aliexpress, and noticed this warning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Aww man, I was just reading this stuff last week and was hoping the 'bug' wouldn't bite me - tried to cable swap with some new iem's and got a good look at my ZS10 Pro's pin slots.

*sigh*









Admittedly, a month ago I had been doing some A-B testing between TRN T4 cables and my 16 core silver plated _brand_ cable, so the stress from going back and forth might have caused it.. plus I do sleep with these in my ears sometimes, but it's still frustrating to see this in IEMs I bought 2 months ago.

They still work fine tho, just gotta baby em like crazy now


----------



## Slater

Turkleton said:


> Aww man, I was just reading this stuff last week and was hoping the 'bug' wouldn't bite me - tried to cable swap with some new iem's and got a good look at my ZS10 Pro's pin slots.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> ...



What about a warranty exchange?


----------



## lgcubana

Turkleton said:


> Aww man, I was just reading this stuff last week and was hoping the 'bug' wouldn't bite me - tried to cable swap with some new iem's and got a good look at my ZS10 Pro's pin slots.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> ...


Lots of "ifs" to follow

If you're outside of your warranty period
If the hairline fracture is on the outside of the socket
If the fracture concerns you

An old remedy is to use clear nail polish, with a very thin application, to fill in and seal the fracture,  Too thick of an application will hinder the cable from being able to fit.


----------



## Turkleton

Slater said:


> What about a warranty exchange?


I'll have to check with the store.. Hope they won't need me to send it back because shipping will cost the same as a new pair (local postal service is completely unreliable)


----------



## astermk

Pairing this with the ZAX: 



Gonna end up having a helluva lot of spare cables, but you're better off having several as opposed to not having any.


----------



## darmanastartes

DynamicEars said:


> Last test, let the ZAX playing with music but don't put them in your ear, just hold them, then close the eartips nozzle (or nozzle if you are willing to take off the eartips)
> Then try to listen from the "vents" if there are much sound leaking from the vents.
> 
> But so far looks like the "vents" are fake or just for aesthetic. I guess they have invisible cover in between grill vents and inner side.
> ...


There is still a bit amount of sound leakage when covering the nozzle. It does sound like it's coming from the vents.


----------



## Keputs

darmanastartes said:


> There is still a bit amount of sound leakage when covering the nozzle. It does sound like it's coming from the vents.


Can you make a proper review now instead of tripping on the "vents"?


----------



## darmanastartes

Keputs said:


> Can you make a proper review now instead of tripping on the "vents"?


I'm responding to the questions of others. I will make a review in due time, thanks.


----------



## Turkleton

Been looking for .75 mm cable upgrades since my ZS10 Pro's cracked... 

Nice choice of colors from black+blue, silver+blue, and silver. 




https://a.aliexpress.com/_BSBncM


----------



## jant71

Turkleton said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_BSBncM



And, if you read the first review, the rain boots are very outstanding! What else do ya need to know?


----------



## courierdriver (Sep 10, 2020)

Turkleton said:


> Aww man, I was just reading this stuff last week and was hoping the 'bug' wouldn't bite me - tried to cable swap with some new iem's and got a good look at my ZS10 Pro's pin slots.
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> ...


Speaking of ZS10 PRO, I just got my replacements (had mine over 1.5 years, so no longer within warranty...had to just buy a new set). Luckily I got my new ones for about $37 CDN, which is about $13 less than I paid for my original set. Crazy thing is; I bought these after the August Aliexpress sale and got them before the stuff I ordered during the sale. Ordered on August 30 and received today, Sept 10. Fastest I've ever got an order from Aliexpress. Sooo happy to have this set back. Sounding awesome right now listening to The Carpenters right now to break them in gently. I've missed these babies. Still my favorite iems of all I currently own. I've got the CCA C10 PRO on the way and should be here by Monday next week. Hope they sound at least as good as the ZS10 PRO.


----------



## courierdriver

Oh, and just as an aside; I didn't screw around with cable swaps on my new set. Using my Tripowin Zonie balanced cable on the new set. These will stay on my new ZS10 PRO, since I already experimented with other cables on my original set that caused the protruding QDC connector to break. Not taking anymore chances on my new set. Zonie is my cable of choice with this set and it's staying on.


----------



## baskingshark

courierdriver said:


> I've got the CCA C10 PRO on the way and should be here by Monday next week. Hope they sound at least as good as the ZS10 PRO.



Unfortunately, OOTB, I didn't find the CCA C10 Pro too impressive, seems like a sidegrade in the KZ/CCA stable. V shaped and somewhat bright, with sibilance to boot. Technicalities are good, but the timbre is poor for acoustic instruments. So if acoustic instruments feature predominantly in your listening, might be better to look elsewhere. 

Due to the good technical performance, I think it can do well in complex music and with synthetic instruments, or other modern day genres that don't deal with acoustic instruments.


I'm still burning them in and will do some A/B testing with the ZS10 pro soon, but no big value add IMHO, I think a few weeks later KZ/CCA will churn out another multi driver hybrid and CCA C10 Pro not be talked about, or worse still, a Pro version of the CCA C10 Pro may very well appear.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Unfortunately, OOTB, I didn't find the CCA C10 Pro too impressive, seems like a sidegrade in the KZ/CCA stable. V shaped and somewhat bright, with sibilance to boot. Technicalities are good, but the timbre is poor for acoustic instruments. So if acoustic instruments feature predominantly in your listening, might be better to look elsewhere.
> 
> Due to the good technical performance, I think it can do well in complex music and with synthetic instruments, or other modern day genres that don't deal with acoustic instruments.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your OOTB quick impressions. Much appreciated! To be totally honest though, I don't listen much to just acoustic music. I listen to a wide variety of genres...everything from old classic rock/pop from the 70's to hair Metal from the 80's, to Tool from the present day. I'm all over the map with the types of music I enjoy. Everyday is a different combo for me. I'm sure I will find some genres of music that the C10 PRO will be good with. Maybe even acoustic...given enough break in and the right combo of eartips and cable.


----------



## Sebulr (Sep 11, 2020)

Just reporting that my beloved zs10 pro (Edit) glare blue have also chipped away at the acyrilic housing around the pins too. I only just noticed it today. It is the nature of the material though. I mainly use them with a non qdc cable though, so that's probably the cause. I have used the kz type c apt X by cable about 20% of the time. I have had them a year.

If they break, I'll probably buy a replacement set. I love them so much.


----------



## astermk

Dark gray/turquoise ZAX:




The turquoise with the gold nozzle looks pretty odd IMO.


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> Unfortunately, OOTB, I didn't find the CCA C10 Pro too impressive, seems like a sidegrade in the KZ/CCA stable. V shaped and somewhat bright, with sibilance to boot. Technicalities are good, but the timbre is poor for acoustic instruments. So if acoustic instruments feature predominantly in your listening, might be better to look elsewhere.
> 
> Due to the good technical performance, I think it can do well in complex music and with synthetic instruments, or other modern day genres that don't deal with acoustic instruments.
> 
> ...


I also got C10 pro recently and was slowly burning and comparing. Your comments prompted me to respond now.

My first impressions - great(!!), C10 pro builds on ZS10 pro (we had CA16 as a nice upgrade of C10, so it is now the turn of lively not gentle treble).

Understandably, if one likes all-engulfing mid-bass of E3000 - C10 pro would not work well (and vice versa).

I liked the treble so far and the bass seem to be tighter (to early to tell), but definitely C10 pro is for those who appreciated ZS10 pro.

So I am looking forward to hear @courierdriver impressions, I hope he will enjoy his C10 pro!

My picture (the cable below is borrowed from CA16 for the looks, I found NiceHCK pure silver litz a good pair for fit and "synergy")


----------



## mikp

any advice for short 2 pin cable (zs10 pro) ? I have a short fiio mmcx, but have not found any 2 pin cables


----------



## rggz

mikp said:


> any advice for short 2 pin cable (zs10 pro) ? I have a short fiio mmcx, but have not found any 2 pin cables



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000049972707.html
https://aliexpress.com/item/32951038156.html


----------



## courierdriver (Sep 11, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I also got C10 pro recently and was slowly burning and comparing. Your comments prompted me to respond now.
> 
> My first impressions - great(!!), C10 pro builds on ZS10 pro (we had CA16 as a nice upgrade of C10, so it is now the turn of lively not gentle treble).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your early thoughts and impressions on the C10 PRO. Nice cable you have on it too. I'm wondering if  you would clarify what you mean by the Nicehck pure silver litz cable you mentioned? Are you saying this cable matches well with the C10 PRO or the CA16? Reason I ask is that I bought 2 new cables on the last Aliexpress sale, and both should be here on Monday. I did receive my C10 PRO this morning but am holding off till I get my new balanced cables to connect to it. After my debacle with my ZS10 PRO connectors breaking, I've learned from my mistakes and being cautious about switching cables too many times on the Paragraph C earphones. Waiting to even unbox the C10 PRO till Monday, when I should get my new KBEAR Rhyme and Limpid balanced 2.5mm cables.


----------



## PhonoPhi

courierdriver said:


> Thanks for your early thoughts and impressions on the C10 PRO. Nice cable you have on it too. I'm wondering if  you would clarify what you mean by the Nicehck pure silver litz cable you mentioned? Are you saying this cable matches well with the C10 PRO or the CA16? Reason I ask is that I bought 2 new cables on the last Aliexpress sale, and both should be here on Monday. I did receive my C10 PRO this morning but am holding off till I get my new balanced cables to connect to it.


Sorry for a bit confusing description of the photo.
Sonically, for both CA16 and C10 pro, I would not claim that I can hear any difference between those cables (these IEMs are both 24 Ohm and not cable sensitive to my ears compared to AS10, for instance).

For me Nicehck litz works a bit better for the fit with C10 pro because with the smaller shell of C10 pro, thinner wires of litz and its preformed ear guides help to keep it more secure in my ears. While for a more chunky CA16 shell that fits tighter - thicker 16 cores with no ear guides work fine. 

So your fit may be different.


----------



## jeejack

PhonoPhi said:


> Sorry for a bit confusing description of the photo.
> Sonically, for both CA16 and C10 pro, I would not claim that I can hear any difference between those cables (these IEMs are both 24 Ohm and not cable sensitive to my ears compared to AS10, for instance).
> 
> For me Nicehck litz works a bit better for the fit with C10 pro because with the smaller shell of C10 pro, thinner wires of litz and its preformed ear guides help to keep it more secure in my ears. While for a more chunky CA16 shell that fits tighter - thicker 16 cores with no ear guides work fine.
> ...


What cable do you have on AS10 ?


----------



## PhonoPhi

jeejack said:


> What cable do you have on AS10 ?


I'll try to be short 

The difference from stock cable to any good 8-core or 16-core cable with the impedance of 0.5 Ohm or so is very noticeable (given that AS10 is 15 Ohm, all BAs, and the very first one of KZ, so the crossover is a bit funky).

Based on common wisdom, I put TRN T3 on AS10 (low resistance, pure silver) but I am not sure that I can hear any difference compared to other decent 8- and 16-core cables. 

So if you have your upgrade cable and it fits nicely - just enjoy your AS10.

I still love AS10 (I stop here before trying to write another page )


----------



## jeejack

I put Nicehck 8 core SPC cable. I wish AS10 to have 1 DD driver for bass


----------



## PhonoPhi

jeejack said:


> I put Nicehck 8 core SPC cable. I wish AS10 to have 1 DD driver for bass


I had this cable first and spent few months with it, may put it back.

I love AS10 BA bass, but your wish is granted by KZ in ZS7. Grab them while you can. 
Or the recent CCA CA16 may work, it is not as warm, but great resolution and gentle treble are there.


----------



## jeejack

The sound signature on AS10 it's very good but i like DD bass. ZS7 has same sound signature like AS10? I have also CCA C12


----------



## PhonoPhi

jeejack said:


> The sound signature on AS10 it's very good but i like DD bass. ZS7 has same sound signature like AS10? I have also CCA C12


I do not have ZS7 given my preference for BAs. The driver configuration for ZS7 and AS10 are the same except for bass BA is replaced by a DD (unique 4-way crossover that KZ used only in few IEMs, three that I know). Those who have ZS7 praise them for nice dynamic bass.  Master @Slater  and @Nimweth can comment further about it.


----------



## IEMusic

courierdriver said:


> Oh, and just as an aside; I didn't screw around with cable swaps on my new set. Using my Tripowin Zonie balanced cable on the new set. These will stay on my new ZS10 PRO, since I already experimented with other cables on my original set that caused the protruding QDC connector to break. Not taking anymore chances on my new set. Zonie is my cable of choice with this set and it's staying on.


I’m also using a Zonie 16, with my ZSX.  Though it fits well, doesn’t the Zonie with “qdc” connector have the pins spaced 0.78mm, instead of the KZ 0.75mm?  Though as Slater previously pointed out, that difference is very minuscule.


----------



## Slater (Sep 12, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I do not have ZS7 given my preference for BAs. The driver configuration for ZS7 and AS10 are the same except for bass BA is replaced by a DD (unique 4-way crossover that KZ used only in few IEMs, three that I know). Those who have ZS7 praise them for nice dynamic bass.  Master @Slater  and @Nimweth can comment further about it.



Believe it or not, I just received my backup pair of ZS7 today. They are getting harder and harder to find, so last sale I scooped up a backup pair for $26!

I only had 1 set of ZS7, and I’ve been concerned that if something happened to it and I can’t find a replacement, I’m screwed.

I’ve been listening to a lot of other stuff lately, so it’s been a few months since I last heard the ZS7. When I opened up my new set today to test it for defects (as I do as soon as I receive all audio purchases), and I am again amazed at just how much I love them.

The tuning is just the right combination of fun and detailed for me (at least for the genres I listen to, my preferred tuning, etc). I know not everyone feels the same way about the ZS7, with its slight upper mid bump and BA in the nozzle, but to each his own. They also fit my ears just fine, but obviously there are others that hated the ZS6 type shell fitment.

The sound is very coherent, I assume due to the 4-way crossover. I cannot tell where crossover points are on the drivers, so KZ did a superb job with the crossover design. All 4 drivers blend together.

It’s the 1 KZ earphone that I would actually consider paying to have reshelled into a CIEM. I like them that much.


----------



## courierdriver

IEMusic said:


> I’m also using a Zonie 16, with my ZSX.  Though it fits well, doesn’t the Zonie with “qdc” connector have the pins spaced 0.78mm, instead of the KZ 0.75mm?  Though as Slater previously pointed out, that difference is very minuscule.


Yup, they are 0.78 and yes, the difference is minuscule. It's not a problem as @Slater said as long as you don't keep swapping out cables. The "holes" in the 0.75 connectors on the iems themselves will slightly stretch out when you insert the 0.78 pins of an aftermarket cable  like the Zonie which can cause two things to happen. 1- if you decide you want to go back to a 0.75 cable, it may fall out of the sockets because those holes have been slightly stretched. 2- the plastic/acrylic shroud that surrounds the raised connectors on the iems themselves can crack (which is what happened in my case and several other members here on headfi). That's why I'm not going to be taking my Zonie off my new ZS10 PRO. I already know it sounds superior to many of the other cables I've tried on my original set, so I'm not going to invite damage to occur again. If I had one wish from companies like KZ, CCA and TRN...it would be to just simply adopt the 0.78 standard that is on the majority of all other 2 pin earphones.


----------



## Slater

courierdriver said:


> If I had one wish from companies like KZ, CCA and TRN...it would be to just simply adopt the 0.78 standard that is on the majority of all other 2 pin earphones.



Or just go back to the old 2-pin connectors. There wasn’t anything wrong with them. They worked perfectly fine for years.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Believe it or not, I just received my backup pair of ZS7 today. They are getting harder and harder to find, so last sale I scooped up a backup pair for $26!
> 
> I only had 1 set of ZS7, and I’ve been concerned that if something happened to it and I can’t find a replacement, I’m screwed.
> 
> ...


Wow! That's a great testament to the ZS7! Same way I feel about my ZS10 PRO. While I was without them, I really realized how much I appreciate and use them.


----------



## rggz

KZ EDX white is bundled with clear Starlines tips, they look cool! (not mine)


----------



## TheVortex

rggz said:


> KZ EDX white is bundled with clear Starlines tips, they look cool! (not mine)



I am looking forward to my white one arriving and they have already left China so not long left now.


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> Or just go back to the old 2-pin connectors. There wasn’t anything wrong with them. They worked perfectly fine for years.



if they want to stick with those protruding 2pins, they might want to consider making some rubber gasket to increase friction and stability, like the ones that are used on the new BT20S Pro connectors


----------



## Assimilator702

IEMusic said:


> I’m also using a Zonie 16, with my ZSX.  Though it fits well, doesn’t the Zonie with “qdc” connector have the pins spaced 0.78mm, instead of the KZ 0.75mm?  Though as Slater previously pointed out, that difference is very minuscule.


I've measured well over 20 cables with a digital caliper and the specs if .75 mm or .78 mm MEAN NOTHING. Every combination of out of spec was measured. From .75 mm that measure less than or more than .75 to .78 and the same for the ".78" 2 pin cables. There was no consistency either. The .78 mm cable didn't measure larger and the same for .75mm cables. This is from most of the companies that sell reasonably priced aftermarket cables to the usual KZ, TRN, TFZ, CCA and including  cables from several higher priced sets. If you look in my signature you can see what I have and I've sold quite a few more expensive sets that are not in my signature anymore.


----------



## IEMusic

Assimilator702 said:


> I've measured well over 20 cables with a digital caliper and the specs if .75 mm or .78 mm MEAN NOTHING. Every combination of out of spec was measured. From .75 mm that measure less than or more than .75 to .78 and the same for the ".78" 2 pin cables. There was no consistency either. The .78 mm cable didn't measure larger and the same for .75mm cables. This is from most of the companies that sell reasonably priced aftermarket cables to the usual KZ, TRN, TFZ, CCA and including  cables from several higher priced sets. If you look in my signature you can see what I have and I've sold quite a few more expensive sets that are not in my signature anymore.


Thanks!  Great to know that ultimately the specs are all meaningless, and that they are all essentially the same.  That simplifies things.


----------



## unifutomaki

Today's new toy 




​


----------



## megapowa

unifutomaki said:


> Today's new toy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So how is it?


----------



## unifutomaki

megapowa said:


> So how is it?



It turns out that when you give KZ 60USD to play with, they build one cracking pair of IEMs 

The ZAX is very coherent and refined-sounding. Despite the large driver count and the BA in the nozzle and all that, it does not suffer from the usual KZ shouty-upper-mids syndrome nor does it exhibit any sibilance that I can tell. It provides a lively but non-fatiguing listen; there is sparkle without the harshness. Rather impressed by the soundstage too; the music appears to emanate from around me with instruments being spread out in a fairly wide arc, rather than being inside my head.


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> It turns out that when you give KZ 60USD to play with, they build one cracking pair of IEMs



Errrr, they were charging more $$$$ with the KZ AS16, and that didn't turn out the best, I think it is still their most expensive KZ to date, but didn't have the best reviews. But I'm glad to see your positive impressions of the ZAX, definitely one on my watchlist for 11/11.


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> Errrr, they were charging more $$$$ with the KZ AS16, and that didn't turn out the best



I have to admit, when typing that sentence I'd forgotten all about the AS16 

Coming from the Moondrop SSR, which is a bit more of an "acquired taste", the ZAX is easy to love at first listen. I'll need to listen more before forming any firm conclusions, but I think all other current KZs or even CCAs are largely irrelevant to me, now that I have these in my collection.


----------



## astermk

unifutomaki said:


> I think all other current KZs or even CCAs are largely irrelevant to me, now that I have these in my collection.



Do you own/have you tried the ZS10 Pro or CA16? I'm upgrading from the former and have also ordered the latter.


----------



## povidlo

Would love to hear some more comparisons on ZAX vs CA16 as well, them both being 1DD+7BA 2020 models.

YouTube review posted earlier seems to give the edge to CA16. 

Impressed with my CA16.


----------



## unifutomaki (Sep 14, 2020)

astermk said:


> Do you own/have you tried the ZS10 Pro or CA16? I'm upgrading from the former and have also ordered the latter.



I've tried the ZS10 Pro briefly (belonged to a friend) but it's been a while. No experience with the CA16. I can only vouch for the qualities of the ZAX as the looks and shape of the CA16 didn't quite click with me.

Nonetheless, if you consider the summed opinions about the ZS10 Pro (somewhat artificial sounding, somewhat hot in the upper mids), the ZAX in my estimation does improve on both points.


----------



## Sebasistan

baskingshark said:


> Errrr, they were charging more $$$$ with the KZ AS16, and that didn't turn out the best, I think it is still their most expensive KZ to date, but didn't have the best reviews. But I'm glad to see your positive impressions of the ZAX, definitely one on my watchlist for 11/11.



I did buy mine after reading the glowing Headfonia review. They're the first "serious" IEM I owned. Driving them balanced improved the sound somewhat, but after getting a few other "serious" IEMs, they aren't that great. I do quite like the form factor, but that's really not something to judge an IEM by. The CCA CA 16 sound better - but their form factor is oddly flimsy in comparison.


----------



## Tonymac136 (Sep 14, 2020)

I too have a new toy. Very loose first impressions - return of the old KZ tanglecable, little bit too heavy in the bass for my liking, timbre unspectacular. For the money though, it seems pretty darn good. Works just dandy with a phone too, which is rare with single DD IEMs.


----------



## voicemaster

Just ordered kz ZAX on a whim lol (I just found out today while searching for trn bt20s pro mmx earhook). Will be comparing it to the zsx for sure.


----------



## brianforever

Tonymac136 said:


> I too have a new toy. Very loose first impressions - return of the old KZ tanglecable, little bit too heavy in the bass for my liking, timbre unspectacular. For the money though, it seems pretty darn good. Works just dandy with a phone too, which is rare with single DD IEMs.


I m confused. bass is too heavy, timbre unspectacular.means a No ? or Yes ? and for the Money / you mean Cheap? but why torture yourself?


----------



## voicemaster

brianforever said:


> I m confused. bass is too heavy, timbre unspectacular.means a No ? or Yes ? and for the Money / you mean Cheap? but why torture yourself?


It even says in the box "heavy bass earphone" so yeah it live up to its spec.


----------



## Tonymac136 (Sep 15, 2020)

brianforever said:


> I m confused. bass is too heavy, timbre unspectacular.means a No ? or Yes ? and for the Money / you mean Cheap? but why torture yourself?



I've spent the week critical listening to the Tin T2 Plus, and about 15 minutes with the EDX. It wouldn't be fair on the EDX to say too much until I've compared it with ED9, MH750, Blon BL01 etc.
Objectively it seems fine, subjectively, the tuning isn't quite to my taste. It's pleasant but it's not really standing out as a giant killer. Burnt in and compared to other sets comparable in price though, it's going to seem much better.

It's definitely not a "no". I'm just unsure at the moment whether it's a "yes" or a "maybe"


----------



## brianforever

Tonymac136 said:


> I've spent the week critical listening to the Tin T2 Plus, and about 15 minutes with the EDX. It wouldn't be fair on the EDX to say too much until I've compared it with ED9, MH750, Blon BL01 etc.
> Objectively it seems fine, subjectively, the tuning isn't quite to my taste. It's pleasant but it's not really standing out as a giant killer. Burnt in and compared to other sets comparable in price though, it's going to seem much better.
> 
> It's definitely not a "no". I'm just unsure at the moment whether it's a "yes" or a "maybe"


Thanks😀 do tell how it goes


----------



## axhng

Tonymac136 said:


> I've spent the week critical listening to the Tin T2 Plus, and about 15 minutes with the EDX. It wouldn't be fair on the EDX to say too much until I've compared it with ED9, MH750, Blon BL01 etc.
> Objectively it seems fine, subjectively, the tuning isn't quite to my taste. It's pleasant but it's not really standing out as a giant killer. Burnt in and compared to other sets comparable in price though, it's going to seem much better.
> 
> It's definitely not a "no". I'm just unsure at the moment whether it's a "yes" or a "maybe"



ended up ordering one along with other things since it was so cheap. wonder how it would stack up against KZ Z1, ZST X. Shipping will probably be slower with the recent 9/9 sales. Based on the item listing doesn't look like it's the "XUN" driver thing? Anyway, a little off topic, but after about 4 months of regular use for jogging on the KZ Z1, the battery life has deteriorated to the point where I can only get 40 mins or so before they turn off, or to be exact, it's one side of the earbuds that runs out of battery at that point. I can still turn on the other side and keep using it for a short while if i wanted to, but then what's the point. really hoping for their next TWS they can do much better. :/


----------



## Tonymac136

axhng said:


> ended up ordering one along with other things since it was so cheap. wonder how it would stack up against KZ Z1, ZST X. Shipping will probably be slower with the recent 9/9 sales. Based on the item listing doesn't look like it's the "XUN" driver thing? Anyway, a little off topic, but after about 4 months of regular use for jogging on the KZ Z1, the battery life has deteriorated to the point where I can only get 40 mins or so before they turn off, or to be exact, it's one side of the earbuds that runs out of battery at that point. I can still turn on the other side and keep using it for a short while if i wanted to, but then what's the point. really hoping for their next TWS they can do much better. :/



It's almost definitely not the XUN as the timbre doesn't seem as rich as the Z1 or the ZST X. Though it's really sensitive so I guess they've taken some of the lessons learned from developing the XUN.

Regarding the Z1, might be worth opening up and seeing what battery they use. I know when mine die I will have a go at repairing them - nothing to lose on a dead one after all.


----------



## revand

unifutomaki said:


> Today's new toy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My best KZ IEM so far is the KZ ZSX. It is great but it is a bit too big for my ear. It means it's nozzle was too long and after a wile the comfort was far from perfect.
I am using Comply Comfort memory foam tips to reduce the effect, but....
Have you ever tried the ZSX?
Is the body of the ZAX a bit smaller than the ZSX?
What is your opinion, can the ZAX provide more comfort as the ZSX?
Many thanks....for your opinion....


----------



## unifutomaki

revand said:


> My best KZ IEM so far is the KZ ZSX. It is great but it is a bit too big for my ear. It means it's nozzle was too long and after a wile the comfort was far from perfect.
> I am using Comply Comfort memory foam tips to reduce the effect, but....
> Have you ever tried the ZSX?
> Is the body of the ZAX a bit smaller than the ZSX?
> ...



I have not tried the ZSX. I believe the ZAX shell is smaller than the ZSX, it is more comparable to the ZS10 Pro or ZSN in size. The back of the IEM (the clear plastic portion) is also rounded off instead of having the protrusions that the ZSX had.


----------



## Tonymac136

So, compared to the MH755, the EDX is quite a bit punchier with similar levels of detail except in the mids which are a bit recessed. MH755 vocals are more natural and forward, though deeper baritone male voices aren't so affected.
Blon BL01 is better all round really though it's harder to drive and almost completely unobtainable now so that's moot. Though I must say extension at the low end and punch in the mid bass is better with the EDX.
ED9 has more detail and a much better soundstage but sounds flat and lifeless in comparison. To be honest I never got on that well with the ED9.
ZST X is just better. More neutral tuning and better detail. Much bigger soundstage. Similarly easy to drive and punchy. In my opinion unless cash is super, super tight the ZST X is the better purchase.
It's good to see KZ release a DD IEM again, and it's a solid performer in my opinion. It doesn't make me want to throw my Blon BL03s away, but for what it costs it's definitely up there with the best available for the money. The real weakness is the upper mid range sounding thin and dry. The soundstage isn't massive, more Blon BL03 size.

TLR
It's good, but not a classic.


----------



## brianforever (Sep 15, 2020)

Tonymac136 said:


> So, compared to the MH755, the EDX is quite a bit punchier with similar levels of detail except in the mids which are a bit recessed. MH755 vocals are more natural and forward, though deeper baritone male voices aren't so affected.
> Blon BL01 is better all round really though it's harder to drive and almost completely unobtainable now so that's moot. Though I must say extension at the low end and punch in the mid bass is better with the EDX.
> ED9 has more detail and a much better soundstage but sounds flat and lifeless in comparison. To be honest I never got on that well with the ED9.
> ZST X is just better. More neutral tuning and better detail. Much bigger soundstage. Similarly easy to drive and punchy. In my opinion unless cash is super, super tight the ZST X is the better purchase.
> ...


Thanks, mate for the review, guess I will stick to my MH750 then and pass on this


----------



## Tonymac136

brianforever said:


> Thanks mate for the review, guess I will stick to my MH750 then and pass on this (y)



What kind of music do you listen to? I have MH750, MH755 both within reach and KZ EDX in my ears right now so I can compare a track or two for you if you want.


----------



## brianforever

Tonymac136 said:


> What kind of music do you listen to? I have MH750, MH755 both within reach and KZ EDX in my ears right now so I can compare a track or two for you if you want.


hahaha I roll with the times and  reverse back to the 80s on occasions, I m open to all genre


----------



## Tonymac136

brianforever said:


> hahaha I roll with the times and  reverse back to the 80s on occasions, I m open to all genre


With simpler recordings and recordings that need a lot of punch the EDX is the better set. As the mix gets more complex vocals in a set range get swallowed a bit and sound thin and dry, the MH750/755 is better. That the EDX is even comparable is a good thing though, nothing really "wrong" with the Sony.


----------



## brianforever

Tonymac136 said:


> With simpler recordings and recordings that need a lot of punch the EDX is the better set. As the mix gets more complex vocals in a set range get swallowed a bit and sound thin and dry, the MH750/755 is better. That the EDX is even comparable is a good thing though, nothing really "wrong" with the Sony.


appreciate the detailed explanation Tony..very well described.  guess will save up for another iem then


----------



## axhng

Tonymac136 said:


> It's almost definitely not the XUN as the timbre doesn't seem as rich as the Z1 or the ZST X. Though it's really sensitive so I guess they've taken some of the lessons learned from developing the XUN.
> 
> Regarding the Z1, might be worth opening up and seeing what battery they use. I know when mine die I will have a go at repairing them - nothing to lose on a dead one after all.



Well, since the battery life on mine is at the point where it's not sufficient for my jogs anymore... But maybe i'll give it a go too. So far for TWS the KZ Z1 has one of the best fit for my ears for jogging (minimal thumping sound from footsteps), and the very fun sound signature works great too. Don't want to take it apart just yet since my old soldering iron broke, and these still sort of still works, but i believe the size is 400909. seems like there's a bit more room actually, so i wonder if its possible to fit in a bigger one. :/


----------



## Slater

Which one of these KZ dynamic TWS sound the best? Not battery life or connectivity problems. Strictly sound wise?

Basically, between the Z1 and S1D?


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Which one of these KZ dynamic TWS sound the best? Not battery life or connectivity problems. Strictly sound wise?
> 
> Basically, between the Z1 and S1D?



Z1 the 10MM XUN, you have to mod it btw, but of course not a single problem for the @Slater since default signature is heavily v shaped.
once modded and pair with EQ, they sounded very good, i mean real good man, the driver have great capabilities and technicalities

S1D using 6mm old DD



accuracy is down due different method of measurement, this was done with pink noise sweep, while connected wirelessly  on my phone, plugged onto IEC711 clone coupler as usual. Not as accurate as sine sweep frequency method but can see roughly (I've tested to compare same cable IEM with 2 methods) how is their signature roughly.

TWS or not, my modded and EQed Z1 is sounded great, the tech side still worrying (batt life, connections, etc etc)


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> Z1 the 10MM XUN, you have to mod it btw, but of course not a single problem for the @Slater since default signature is heavily v shaped.
> once modded and pair with EQ, they sounded very good, i mean real good man, the driver have great capabilities and technicalities
> 
> S1D using 6mm old DD
> ...



Gotcha, Z1 it is then. Thanks for the info!


----------



## unifutomaki

I hadn't noticed this previously, but my ZAX right earpiece was unfortunately the recipient of a cosmetic imperfection (early batch issue?), wherein the vents on the face plate weren't quite machined perfectly:



So I took a small metal file to it and tried to clean things up. The result is subtle and it's still not _quite_ perfect, but I feel better now


----------



## Tonymac136

DynamicEars said:


> Z1 the 10MM XUN, you have to mod it btw, but of course not a single problem for the @Slater since default signature is heavily v shaped.
> once modded and pair with EQ, they sounded very good, i mean real good man, the driver have great capabilities and technicalities
> 
> S1D using 6mm old DD
> ...



+1 for the Z1. Almost Blon levels of timbre, less inconsistency with the bass than the Blon too. At the money they'd be good wired IEMs. Must investigate what tips I've used on them - I don't notice the v shape, maybe using the same tips on the EDX will sort the bit of midrange that sounds awful out.


----------



## Slater (Sep 15, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> I hadn't noticed this previously, but my ZAX right earpiece was unfortunately the recipient of a cosmetic imperfection (early batch issue?), *wherein the vents on the face plate weren't quite machined perfectly:*



To clarify, the vents in the ZAX faceplate are punched, not machined. The parts you indicated are burrs left over from where the tool punched out the vents.

It's also possible that the whole part was stamped as a single operation (ie punching the vent holes and forming the sides of the faceplate, all at once). But burrs are common on punched or stamped pieces.

Anyways, here's an example of burrs:


Burrs can occur for a number of reasons. But most likely, the punch they used for your particular faceplates was dull and needed to be resharpened. Aluminum is a soft metal, and deforms easily, so it is pretty much impossible to avoid on a part like this.

In any event, what you did was deburr the vents with your file.


----------



## DynamicEars

Tonymac136 said:


> +1 for the Z1. Almost Blon levels of timbre, less inconsistency with the bass than the Blon too. At the money they'd be good wired IEMs. Must investigate what tips I've used on them - I don't notice the v shape, maybe using the same tips on the EDX will sort the bit of midrange that sounds awful out.



Timbre is good, yes i agree almost blon level great timbre, but technicalities as soundstage width, micro details, is slightly better on Z1. I use xelastec now for my Z1, but default tuning +15db on 6khz is killing me, the mid bass-sub bass proportion is linear, so no mid bass bleed but the amount also too much for me. I made them smoother and more balanced with sponge mod and EQ, they are sounded really great.

what made the Z1 driver so special? i will answer "THE PUSH", they bubbly about XUN tech with turbocharger blah blah blah, made the driver push harder and faster, its kinda gimmicky but i dont know man, they are working great, they deliver "air" movement that feels good, the rare feeling that i can get example from my Sony EX-1000.


----------



## unifutomaki

DynamicEars said:


> i will answer "THE PUSH", they bubbly about XUN tech with turbocharger blah blah blah, made the driver push harder and faster, its kinda gimmicky but i dont know man, they are working great, they deliver "air" movement that feels good, the rare feeling that i can get example from my Sony EX-1000.


----------



## WanAudio

Tonymac136 said:


> So, compared to the MH755, the EDX is quite a bit punchier with similar levels of detail except in the mids which are a bit recessed. MH755 vocals are more natural and forward, though deeper baritone male voices aren't so affected.
> Blon BL01 is better all round really though it's harder to drive and almost completely unobtainable now so that's moot. Though I must say extension at the low end and punch in the mid bass is better with the EDX.
> ED9 has more detail and a much better soundstage but sounds flat and lifeless in comparison. To be honest I never got on that well with the ED9.
> ZST X is just better. More neutral tuning and better detail. Much bigger soundstage. Similarly easy to drive and punchy. In my opinion unless cash is super, super tight the ZST X is the better purchase.
> ...


I just received the EDX literally an hour ago and I must say, for the price it really sounds good. Imo it would be an upgrade for the KZ ZS3 which also features 1DD. Compared it to ZSN PRO and it sounds really close! I would rec this as a starter set for people who just join in this hobby. And my observations are really similar to your review so I don't think I need to add much 😂


----------



## Keputs

voicemaster said:


> Just ordered kz ZAX on a whim lol (I just found out today while searching for trn bt20s pro mmx earhook). Will be comparing it to the zsx for sure.


Looking forward to your comparative. I also have the zsx with the zax on the way.


----------



## voicemaster

Keputs said:


> Looking forward to your comparative. I also have the zsx with the zax on the way.


I also have CCA CA16 coming.


----------



## citral23 (Sep 16, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> I hadn't noticed this previously, but my ZAX right earpiece was unfortunately the recipient of a cosmetic imperfection (early batch issue?), wherein the vents on the face plate weren't quite machined perfectly:
> 
> 
> 
> So I took a small metal file to it and tried to clean things up. The result is subtle and it's still not _quite_ perfect, but I feel better now



Are the vents real or cosmetic? Damn this is the most sexy looking set I've ever seen. I'm a sucker for matte black.


----------



## Dave Drums

Just seen in a reply from to a comment on BAGGAR's youtube ZAX review, he rates ZS10 PRO above ZAX. Didn't see that coming, guess he really loves that CA16 treble tuning. He seems to know his onions....  First impressions seem to point to the ZAX being what the C12 was to the ZSX in terms of treble, except the ZAX has the 10mm DD vs CA16 7mm so ZAX may have more sub bass like the ZSX had compared to C12...., 
All speculation and I'm sure there will be an influx of people receiving theirs shortly that will give the general consensus....
Personally I really want them to shine as the CA16 sound signature sounds like a breath of fresh air in the KZ output, the ZAX brings a great aesthetic.
I hope the two can marry into one earphone


----------



## PhonoPhi

Dave Drums said:


> Just seen in a reply from to a comment on BAGGAR's youtube ZAX review, he rates ZS10 PRO above ZAX. Didn't see that coming, guess he really loves that CA16 treble tuning. He seems to know his onions....  First impressions seem to point to the ZAX being what the C12 was to the ZSX in terms of treble, except the ZAX has the 10mm DD vs CA16 7mm so ZAX may have more sub bass like the ZSX had compared to C12....,
> All speculation and I'm sure there will be an influx of people receiving theirs shortly that will give the general consensus....
> Personally I really want them to shine as the CA16 sound signature sounds like a breath of fresh air in the KZ output, the ZAX brings a great aesthetic.
> I hope the two can marry into one earphone


If BGGR states that the best music that he have heard at the concerts is through "dynamic drivers", it puts immediate heavy bias for the bass vs. treble, so him rating CA16 above ZAX is hardly surprising.

CA16 is the successful continuation of C10 tuning, rather than "surprising success" of KZ/CCA to me.

Now, for me CA10 pro is a slight upgrade of ZS10 pro by virtue of more defined crisp bass, but it is quite close, so opinions can differ.


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> If BGGR states that the best music that he have heard at the concerts is through "dynamic drivers", it puts immediate heavy bias for the bass vs. treble, so him rating CA16 above ZAX is hardly surprising.
> 
> CA16 is the successful continuation of C10 tuning, rather than "surprising success" of KZ/CCA to me.
> 
> Now, for me CA10 pro is a slight upgrade of ZS10 pro by virtue of more defined crisp bass, but it is quite close, so opinions can differ.



jusf as he would give more points to beryllium based drivers. the good thing is he knows full well of his subjective bias and admits it, so it's just up to the viewers to factor that to the overall review


----------



## IEMusic

chinmie said:


> the good thing is he knows full well of his subjective bias and admits it, so it's just *up to the viewers* to factor that to the overall review


Exactly!!


----------



## PhonoPhi

chinmie said:


> jusf as he would give more points to beryllium based drivers. the good thing is he knows full well of his subjective bias and admits it, so it's just up to the viewers to factor that to the overall review


In your example of "beryllium-based drivers", do reviews really distinguish them by their sound or just what is written/advertised ?
Also, admitting the bias is far from removing it
Some reviewers even developed their special gestures "good, but good for KZ", I would so love seeing them blind testing their IEMs!


----------



## whitete

Just received my ZAX today and so far they sound great. A little more bass than ZS10 Pro, which I like. But my biggest problem, other than spending too much on KZ IEMs, is that I need better ear tips!  All large sizes, both silicone and foam, are not big enough. I recently tried the Tennmaks and they are not big enough. I’m not picky about silicone vs foam I just need some XL sized tips. Please help. 😩


----------



## PhonoPhi

whitete said:


> Just received my ZAX today and so far they sound great. A little more bass than ZS10 Pro, which I like. But my biggest problem, other than spending too much on KZ IEMs, is that I need better ear tips!  All large sizes, both silicone and foam, are not big enough. I recently tried the Tennmaks and they are not big enough. I’m not picky about silicone vs foam I just need some XL sized tips. Please help. 😩


JVC Spiral dots L are effectively XL.
Also if you look in AE for 14 mm - you can find few more affordable choices in silicone.
This really helped me in a similar quest after spending $100+ for tips in Amazon.


----------



## courierdriver

PhonoPhi said:


> If BGGR states that the best music that he have heard at the concerts is through "dynamic drivers", it puts immediate heavy bias for the bass vs. treble, so him rating CA16 above ZAX is hardly surprising.
> 
> CA16 is the successful continuation of C10 tuning, rather than "surprising success" of KZ/CCA to me.
> 
> Now, for me CA10 pro is a slight upgrade of ZS10 pro by virtue of more defined crisp bass, but it is quite close, so opinions can differ.


Owning the CA10 PRO, and comparing to ZS10 PRO, I much prefer the KZ ZS10 PRO. The CCA is much too bright...and no, I don't consider myself treble sensitive. I've got a Nicehck NX7 original and I think that set sounds great. The CA 10 PRO is much more treble elevated and quite fatiguing.


----------



## mbwilson111

whitete said:


> Just received my ZAX today and so far they sound great. A little more bass than ZS10 Pro, which I like. But my biggest problem, other than spending too much on KZ IEMs, is that I need better ear tips!  All large sizes, both silicone and foam, are not big enough. I recently tried the Tennmaks and they are not big enough. I’m not picky about silicone vs foam I just need some XL sized tips. Please help. 😩



You could try this, using the large ones that you do have

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/


----------



## whitete

PhonoPhi said:


> JVC Spiral dots L are effectively XL.
> Also if you look in AE for 14 mm - you can find few more affordable choices in silicone.
> This really helped me in a similar quest after spending $100+ for tips in Amazon.



Thank you!  I can’t seem to find L spiral dots. Where do you get them?


----------



## whitete

mbwilson111 said:


> You could try this, using the large ones that you do have
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/



That is interesting!  I’ll try it.


----------



## Slater

whitete said:


> Just received my ZAX today and so far they sound great. A little more bass than ZS10 Pro, which I like. But my biggest problem, other than spending too much on KZ IEMs, is that I need better ear tips!  All large sizes, both silicone and foam, are not big enough. I recently tried the Tennmaks and they are not big enough. I’m not picky about silicone vs foam I just need some XL sized tips. Please help. 😩



Lots of tips and info in this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/big-eared-people-unite.697211/


----------



## PhonoPhi

courierdriver said:


> Owning the CA10 PRO, and comparing to ZS10 PRO, I much prefer the KZ ZS10 PRO. The CCA is much too bright...and no, I don't consider myself treble sensitive. I've got a Nicehck NX7 original and I think that set sounds great. The CA 10 PRO is much more treble elevated and quite fatiguing.


My take is that more tight bass of C10 pro with less mid-bass makes them "colder" and with less mids.
I am actually listening now to Bartok string quartets this evening and they do work for me as a closer step from ZS10 pro to C12, borderline sibilant, they make it more alive.

But I do agree that ZS10 pro is special, and if I were to electronic music, ZS10 pro would likely be my preference.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Lots of tips and info in this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/big-eared-people-unite.697211/


I thought to ask you to give a good reference for those huge "Beats" tips that are 14.5 mm and comes with double flanges, it may also help.


----------



## PhonoPhi

whitete said:


> Thank you!  I can’t seem to find L spiral dots. Where do you get them?


I bought my two L packs from Amazon Japan, but they did become more scarce.


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> In your example of "beryllium-based drivers", do reviews really distinguish them by their sound or just what is written/advertised ?
> Also, admitting the bias is far from removing it
> Some reviewers even developed their special gestures "good, but good for KZ", I would so love seeing them blind testing their IEMs!



at least for me, i know that his opinions on that certain sets that have beryllium (or comparing dynamic bass to BA) are biased, because he would subjectively favors it, even if they sound on similar level. 

nowadays, i personally don't care what technology employed on making the drivers, tubing, crossovers, etc. i don't even csre about pricing. what matters is what i hear. 

of course not to say i never do that. at first in this hobby i would search certain driver or configuration, thinking it's better. now i know that does not matter much. 

that KZ smirking happens everywhere, also in my local forums. if someone says certain KZ sounds better or rival higher priced IEMs (God forbid if that IEM is priced in the hundreds or even thousands of dollars), they would get bashed and ridiculed. 

i still stand on my views that the ZSX and ZS10 Pro are great sounding set regardless the brand or price



whitete said:


> Just received my ZAX today and so far they sound great. A little more bass than ZS10 Pro, which I like. But my biggest problem, other than spending too much on KZ IEMs, is that I need better ear tips!  All large sizes, both silicone and foam, are not big enough. I recently tried the Tennmaks and they are not big enough. I’m not picky about silicone vs foam I just need some XL sized tips. Please help. 😩



that's interesting! aside from the bigger bass, how's your view on the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro?


----------



## unifutomaki (Sep 16, 2020)

citral23 said:


> Are the vents real or cosmetic? Damn this is the most sexy looking set I've ever seen. I'm a sucker for matte black.



I believe they are real in that air and brush bristles (tried yesterday evening) pass through them.

As for whether the ZS10 Pro is really "better" than the ZAX, well, it's horses for courses. What I will say is that the terms "metallic timbre" or "overly bright" does not enter my mind when listening to the ZAX and the nature of my work means I'm listening all day.

Sometimes things that give a "wow effect" upfront don't necessarily prove to be the best to live with.


----------



## whitete

chinmie said:


> that‘s interesting! aside from the bigger bass, how's your view on the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro?


 The expanded bass is what I’m noticing the most so far. I’m not as well versed in FR stuff like others here. 😩


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> I thought to ask you to give a good reference for those huge "Beats" tips that are 14.5 mm and comes with double flanges, it may also help.



Yes, those are excellent choices for super big tips. Also, turning the typical cone shape foam tips backwards works for a lot of people as well.


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> Owning the CA10 PRO, and comparing to ZS10 PRO, I much prefer the KZ ZS10 PRO. The CCA is much too bright...and no, I don't consider myself treble sensitive. I've got a Nicehck NX7 original and I think that set sounds great. The CA 10 PRO is much more treble elevated and quite fatiguing.


Yes, I'm finding that as well. The C10 Pro is bright and has a cool tonality throughout. Bass is very tight and fast, though and detail retrieval is good. Treble heads, this is for you!


----------



## slex

I never thought iem sounds so good  😄 compared with my headphones. Soundstage are wide. These ZAX have vents to air my ears for long listening without discomfort.

Incoming TRN 8BA and KZ Aptx HD bluetooth adaptor. Will do comparison.


----------



## unifutomaki

Today's listening exercise. Steely Dan's Aja, Red Book FLAC, volume 28/100 on my Shanling Q1 with low gain. Those familiar with this album will know that it is packed with complex arrangements and is somewhat of an audiophile classic. To my ears, the ZAX allows for a slightly further back from front row presentation of a fairly wide soundstage, where the horizontal position of each drum in the kit is perceptible. There are at least three discernable levels of depth: drums, cymbals and guitar are somewhat ahead of the vocals and saxophone section, while backing vocals and other effects bring up the rear. The bass is fast and tight. I cannot personally tell which sections of the track are being handled by which drivers, which is (I assume) how it should be.

​


----------



## Tamirci

Here is my review on ZstX. A fresh look on the classic Zst.

https://kulakligim.net/inear/kz-zstx-review/


----------



## purplesun (Sep 19, 2020)

💇‍♂️ 🔍 



😎


----------



## DynamicEars

purplesun said:


> 💇‍♂️ 🔍
> 
> 😎



nice photoshop!

jk.. lol

1 thing that made me confused. Lot of users said vents are real thing, yes. But lot of user also said no sound leak from the vents, and when vents are closed, there are no differences in sound. How come?


----------



## purplesun

DynamicEars said:


> 1 thing that made me confused. Lot of users said vents are real thing, yes. But lot of user also said no sound leak from the vents, and when vents are closed, there are no differences in sound. How come?


Only had it in my ears for a minute or 2, it doesn`t sound open to me. Just sounded like any normal hybrid iem isolation. Not something i dwell on, as long as it sounds good. Plus I usually prefer my iems fully sealed BAs for use on airplanes anyway.


----------



## steviewonderbread

Enjoying my zombie-KZ firesale iems! (Estron/Timmkoo EST). Shortcomings come in the form of hot upper mids and shimmery/grainy timbre that these Bellsing BA drivers sometimes exhibit. Strengths are comfort, smooth bass and highly competent imaging/staging. These will be perfect for sleeping and workouts, and fun to keep as a collectible.


----------



## lgcubana

DynamicEars said:


> nice photoshop!
> 
> jk.. lol
> 
> 1 thing that made me confused. Lot of users said vents are real thing, yes. But lot of user also said no sound leak from the vents, and when vents are closed, *there are no differences in sound. How come?*


The music that's being used could be one factor. Something with a lot of low end (like Angel, Massive Attack) could help in picking up the difference.

Angel (2019 remastered), Massive Attack


----------



## ricemanhk

KZ ZAX in the house!  Still need to run them in but initial impressions are very good. Some key points:
- vents are real, sound does come out of the vents. There's a tight mesh of course so it isnt like a fully open back but the airyness is there and isolation is less than normal IEMs like my AS10s. Putting tape on the vents do make them sound more isolated so the vents are indeed functional
- the casing is the size of zst! Some minor differences but overall size and shape are the same, this surprised me alot as I thought they would be quite big with DD+7BA. Picture attached next to AS10. My ears aren't big and zst/zsr size has always been best for me so I'm happy!
- sound is great, wide sound stage as others reported and I love the vented design as I do prefer open back headphones.  Well controlled treble and i haven't heard any sibilance yet, bass is present but not in your face, overall I think quite balanced with a slight warmth and slight V, but will need more time to tell.  Quick AB test I do prefer these over AS10, the SQ is better but for me I think its mainly the airyness. Separation is good, imaging and resolution is very clear, though top and low end will need a bit more run time to clear up

Overall very happy with the zax and they will be my daily drivers!


----------



## chinmie

purplesun said:


> 💇‍♂️ 🔍
> 
> 😎



that settles it


----------



## unifutomaki

ricemanhk said:


> vents are real, sound does come out of the vents. There's a tight mesh of course so it isnt like a fully open back but the airyness is there and isolation is less than normal IEMs like my AS10s. Putting tape on the vents do make them sound more isolated so the vents are indeed functional



Good to hear, at least one person can hear a difference, hopefully that will calm the skeptics finally


----------



## citral23

DynamicEars said:


> nice photoshop!
> 
> jk.. lol
> 
> 1 thing that made me confused. Lot of users said vents are real thing, yes. But lot of user also said no sound leak from the vents, and when vents are closed, there are no differences in sound. How come?



Mystery intensifies


----------



## citral23

Now where are the matte black cables on Ali


----------



## Nimweth

ricemanhk said:


> KZ ZAX in the house!  Still need to run them in but initial impressions are very good. Some key points:
> - vents are real, sound does come out of the vents. There's a tight mesh of course so it isnt like a fully open back but the airyness is there and isolation is less than normal IEMs like my AS10s. Putting tape on the vents do make them sound more isolated so the vents are indeed functional
> - the casing is the size of zst! Some minor differences but overall size and shape are the same, this surprised me alot as I thought they would be quite big with DD+7BA. Picture attached next to AS10. My ears aren't big and zst/zsr size has always been best for me so I'm happy!
> - sound is great, wide sound stage as others reported and I love the vented design as I do prefer open back headphones.  Well controlled treble and i haven't heard any sibilance yet, bass is present but not in your face, overall I think quite balanced with a slight warmth and slight V, but will need more time to tell.  Quick AB test I do prefer these over AS10, the SQ is better but for me I think its mainly the airyness. Separation is good, imaging and resolution is very clear, though top and low end will need a bit more run time to clear up
> ...


These look interesting, vented and 4-way crossover. The spiritual successor to the ZS7, perhaps? I'm finding the C10 Pro the successor to the ZS10 Pro or perhaps the C12 with its big bold V shape and bright top end.


----------



## unifutomaki

Nimweth said:


> These look interesting, vented and 4-way crossover. The spiritual successor to the ZS7, perhaps? I'm finding the C10 Pro the successor to the ZS10 Pro or perhaps the C12 with its big bold V shape and bright top end.



The ZAX sits alongside my T2+ on my list of "IEMs I would simply buy again if something untoward happens to them"  

Absolutely chuffed to bits, easily the most refined and easygoing KZ I've heard, while not completely losing the fun factor.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

KZ EDX is out. It's nice to see new 1 DD iem.


----------



## khighly

Any comparisons of ZAX to Starfield yet?


----------



## Tonymac136

xxAMAROKxx said:


> KZ EDX is out. It's nice to see new 1 DD iem.



Yep. It would be nice to see KZ REALLY go for it with a 1DD but apart from a bit of weirdness in the upper mid range (recessed, poor separation, can be improved with EQ but not eradicated completely) the EDX is a fine buy. I just want to see KZ try and out-BLON BLON or out-Tin Tin.


----------



## revand

whitete said:


> Thank you!  I can’t seem to find L spiral dots. Where do you get them?



I bought them from here.
The largest size they sell is ML, but it worked for me (1 mm less than L). Free shipping worldwide!

I found the JVC Spiral Dot tips as best for TWS-s, and almost as good for my KZ ZSX as the Comply Comfort, but Spiral Dot is much more comfortable..
For me this are the best silicone eartips.


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 17, 2020)

Just got my ZAX and did my first listening with it and I am really impressed. This is the first KZ that doesn't sound weird OOTB. Usually, they have bloated bass or piercing treble, but the ZAX has tight bass and smooth treble OOTB, which is really nice. So many online "reviewers" dissed an IEM with only limited amount of listening time and most often the IEM is not even burned in yet.
The sound signature is pretty similar to the ZSX, but it has a little bit more forward mid, but the difference is very very small. What really noticeable to me is the soundstage and overall airiness of the treble of the ZAX compared to ZSX. I also compared the sound leak and the ZAX does leak more sound when the eartip is covered. Will do more listening time and compare it to the CCA CA16 which hopefully coming tomorrow.


----------



## purplesun (Sep 18, 2020)

Quick impression of KZ ZAX. To my ears, it's a more athletic version of C10. More agile and textured across the same frequency ranges. Plus, it extends the treble performances into the airy ranges (past 10khz) while maintaining impressive treble control. That is, to me ears, sibilance, metallic brilliance, graininess and harshness are very well tamed. (Note: am treble-sensitive, so factor that into your own treble preferences)

The other aspect I like about ZAX is, it's surprisingly small & light for something crammed with so many drivers.

Just about the few negatives I can think of is: the warmth-level may not be strong enough to excel in intimate performances and the low rumbling bass levels (<50Hz) may not be strong enough to satisfy humpback whale music lovers the sound signature is quite source-dependent, especially at both ends of frequency spectrum.

Sources used (SE output): SR25, AP80, R3Pro, DF-Red, Atom Pro, ALC4040 dongle, Benjie X3 & T6.


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> Quick impression of KZ ZAX. To my ears, it's a more athletic version of C10. More agile and textured across the same frequency ranges. Plus, it extends the treble performances into the airy ranges (past 10khz) while maintaining impressive treble control. That is, to me ears, sibilance, metallic brilliance, graininess and harshness are very well tamed. (Note: am treble-sensitive, so factor that into your own treble preferences)
> 
> The other aspect I like about ZAX is, it's surprisingly small & light for something crammed with so many drivers.
> 
> Just about the few negatives I can think of is: the warmth-level may not be strong enough to excel in intimate performances and the low rumbling bass levels (<50Hz) may not be strong enough to satisfy hump whale music lovers!


The body design and measurement from the face plate side is actually the same as ZS10 pro. The thickness of the body is similar to CCA-C12 or ZSX. For me, the C10 is much more sterile/flat. I think the ZAX might even be very similar to the CCA-C12 in the mid, but the big difference is the vent hole in the face plate that gives openness to the sound imho.


----------



## JazzVinyl

My ZAX's just arrived, today, too.  Will give an impression after a few hours listening


----------



## voicemaster

JazzVinyl said:


> My ZAX's just arrived, today, too.  Will give an impression after a few hours listening


Hope you like it. Been following KZ since the ZS1 era and it is quite fascinating on how much they had accomplished in term of sound tuning and build quality. The turning point of their sound tuning I believe was when they released ZSN.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 17, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Hope you like it. Been following KZ since the ZS1 era and it is quite fascinating on how much they had accomplished in term of sound tuning and build quality. The turning point of their sound tuning I believe was when they released ZSN.



Nice collection!

I have had the KZ ATE's for a long time.  Always found them easy to listen to.  A friend bought the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro, he said he liked the ZS10, the best.

Have been hanging out with the TinHiFi P1's (using an 850mw portable amp w/bass boost) lately.  They have me loving the lush, uber-detailed and quick mids. 

ZAX's have impressed, so far.  Need to listen to some 'favorite tracks' to get a better feel.  But there is controlled treble...so very happy with that, thus far.  

.


----------



## baskingshark

khighly said:


> Any comparisons of ZAX to Starfield yet?



I don't have both, but I would think it is quite an apples to oranges comparison when comparing a multi BA/hybrid type to a single DD like the Starfield.
In general, at the budget segment, the single DD types have better timbre and tonality, whereas the multi driver types generally have better technicalities like instrument separation, details and imaging. Different strokes for different folks I guess.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Hope you like it. Been following KZ since the ZS1 era and it is quite fascinating on how much they had accomplished in term of sound tuning and build quality. The turning point of their sound tuning I believe was when they released ZSN.



so what's your view about the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro and ZSX sound-wise?


----------



## JazzVinyl

The ZAX sounds very relaxed, like it is barely working.  It is effortless in it's task.  The ZAX gets along wonderfully with my Shanling M6.  I am very impressed with the FR tuning, congrats to KZ.

It sounds like 2nd or 3rd row presentation, with the main instruments at 10 and 2 o'clock.  Bass is solid but tight, not flabby or bloated.  Mids shine, nice detail not a lot of front to back staging, but plenty wide. Treble is well controlled.  No part of the FR is walking over the other.

Regarding the "Vents", I had a look under a magnifying glass, and there are two small holes under the "vent" openings one on the left most vent (at the top) and another at the right most, again at the top.  It is not like the entire area that appears to be vented, is open to the air.   The holes are larger than what you find on many a dynamic driver iem, but they are not huge.

I am very happy with this purchase.  I would easily recommend the KZ ZAX to those who like near neutral tuning but who also appreciate some V, for the excitement factor.  

Cheers, all.
.


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 18, 2020)

chinmie said:


> so what's your view about the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro and ZSX sound-wise?


I think the ZAX is more flatter than the ZSX in the bass quantity. The sound signature is pretty similar, but the soundstage is definitely bigger. It is very noticeable with cymbals sound where you can hear the Sss sound "travelling" further, just like an open headphone sounds like. I don't think the treble extended more than ZSX, but the openness design kind of giving that effect imho.
I haven't compare it to the ZS10pro yet, but I rated the ZSX above the ZS10 pro. I think it is good that KZ went back to ZS10 pro body style because for some people, they can't get a good fit with the ZSX.
Oh and I haven't even use the ZAX wired yet. Been 6 hours listening to music, youtube and tv show with the ZAX and BT20s pro combo. The battery still at 65%, very impressive combo.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> I think the ZAX is more flatter than the ZSX in the bass quantity. The sound signature is pretty similar, but the soundstage is definitely bigger. It is very noticeable with cymbals sound where you can hear the Sss sound "travelling" further, just like an open headphone sounds like. I don't think the treble extended more than ZSX, but the openness design kind of giving that effect imho.
> I haven't compare it to the ZS10pro yet, but I rated the ZSX above the ZS10 pro. I think it is good that KZ went back to ZS10 pro body style because for some people, they can't get a good fit with the ZSX.
> Oh and I haven't even use the ZAX wired yet. Been 6 hours listening to music, youtube and tv show with the ZAX and BT20s pro combo.



i personally preferred the ZS10 Pro just a slight bit, because it has more "booms and sizzles" while ZSX has more intimate sound on mids than the ZS10 Pro. now your impressions makes me want to try the ZAX even more


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> i personally preferred the ZS10 Pro just a slight bit, because it has more "booms and sizzles" while ZSX has more intimate sound on mids than the ZS10 Pro. now your impressions makes me want to try the ZAX even more


The ZAX has an even more intimate mid and a tighter bass than the ZSX. It's like a combination of C10 (bass), C12 (mid) and ZSX (treble). Add a small vent and boom spacious sound. I can hear better instrument separation but need more listening and A/Bing.


----------



## bhazard

Got the ZAX today. It requires far less power than the CA16. Like someone else said, it is pretty effortless in it's output. Balanced sound... a decent amount of bass without being overdone, great mids, treble can get a bit too energetic at times, but isn't ear piercing. Best KZ to date easily.

The ZAX fits my ears better than the CA16. The CA16 has a bit too much bass bleed and not quite enough treble for Metal. One thing though, if you listen to bass driven electronic music, the CA16 pounds.. very enjoyable. I cranked up the bass on the new Pendulum singles and the CA16 took it like a champ. CA16 wins over the ZAX there for it's sheer power, clarity, and smoothness.

I would take the ZAX over the CA16 for the fit and tuning, but I like having both in my collection. Neither one disappoints and they are excellent values at their price, as usual.


----------



## bhazard

Forgot to mention, I like the ZAX over the ZS10 Pro and ZSX by quite a bit. It takes the best features of both the previous IEMs and improves on their shortcomings.


----------



## voicemaster

bhazard said:


> Got the ZAX today. It requires far less power than the CA16. Like someone else said, it is pretty effortless in it's output. Balanced sound... a decent amount of bass without being overdone, great mids, treble can get a bit too energetic at times, but isn't ear piercing. Best KZ to date easily.
> 
> The ZAX fits my ears better than the CA16. The CA16 has a bit too much bass bleed and not quite enough treble for Metal. One thing though, if you listen to bass driven electronic music, the CA16 pounds.. very enjoyable. I cranked up the bass on the new Pendulum singles and the CA16 took it like a champ. CA16 wins over the ZAX there for it's sheer power, clarity, and smoothness.
> 
> I would take the ZAX over the CA16 for the fit and tuning, but I like having both in my collection. Neither one disappoints and they are excellent values at their price, as usual.


Its like KZ and CCA switch place. Usually CCA tends to a flatter sound signature and KZ is the more fun and energetic one.


----------



## rayliam80

I've ordered the ZAX. It should arrive by Sunday. One thing I noticed after spending several months with my CCA C12 and a few other IEMs from my collection is that I thought the C12 fit my ears well. But after getting back to my main collection now, I've realized the ZS10 Pro is the best fit in terms of keeping a good seal with silicone tips aside from my Ety ER3SE, which frankly isn't the most comfortable. From the pics, I am really hoping the ZAX will have the same shell size and nozzle angle as the ZS10 Pro. The CA16 is tempting but I'm thinking it may not fit my ears as well as the ZS10 Pro with silicone tips - at least in keeping a good, consistent seal.


----------



## voicemaster

rayliam80 said:


> I've ordered the ZAX. It should arrive by Sunday. One thing I noticed after spending several months with my CCA C12 and a few other IEMs from my collection is that I thought the C12 fit my ears well. But after getting back to my main collection now, I've realized the ZS10 Pro is the best fit in terms of keeping a good seal with silicone tips aside from my Ety ER3SE, which frankly isn't the most comfortable. From the pics, I am really hoping the ZAX will have the same shell size and nozzle angle as the ZS10 Pro. The CA16 is tempting but I'm thinking it may not fit my ears as well as the ZS10 Pro with silicone tips - at least in keeping a good, consistent seal.


I just compared it side by side with C10, ZSN and ZS10 pro and they all almost identical in size and shape.


----------



## astermk

rayliam80 said:


> The CA16 is tempting but I'm thinking it may not fit my ears as well as the ZS10 Pro with silicone tips - at least in keeping a good, consistent seal.


I have both, for my ears at least the CA16 actually fit better, but both are very comfortable. The CA16 has a very specific molding shape though so I imagine it would be hit and miss.


----------



## BubisUK

Received them today. Does not feel as cheap as I thought they would do. Extremely light ~7 grams without tips. Will give my impression when I listen to them.


----------



## BubisUK

Well they were quite boomy to my taste, so decided to open them up and give a listen like that, they are really easy to open up 😄 sounds really nice now, bass is still there but does not get into mids, Amber Rubarth Session from the 17th wards, sounds as good and as wide as on HD 598, so now will try to drill the compensation whole larger and see where this will take me.


----------



## citral23

Can someone compare the ZAX to the ZS7? The ZS7 is the only iem from that company I've kept and still use for hip-hop and metal "in ur face" quick sessions, because it's quite airy with the vents and has more sub than mid-bass. But I realise how heavy, big and uncomfortable they are by today's standards so if the ZAX compares favorably I'll grab them I think on sale whenever.


----------



## Keputs

The Terminator and the Terminated? 
Not really.

The new kid on the block is one smooth dude!

I'll give it a spin and enjoy the rest of the weekend.


----------



## voicemaster

citral23 said:


> Can someone compare the ZAX to the ZS7? The ZS7 is the only iem from that company I've kept and still use for hip-hop and metal "in ur face" quick sessions, because it's quite airy with the vents and has more sub than mid-bass. But I realise how heavy, big and uncomfortable they are by today's standards so if the ZAX compares favorably I'll grab them I think on sale whenever.


If you like zs7, you probably won't like zax. It is a pretty neutral sounding iem. If you ever heard cca c10, the zax has a similar bass quantity which you can hear it, but it doesn't slam "in ur face" unless the bass is really turned up in the mix. The mid is more forward and detailed than the zs7. While both are airy due to the vents, but the zax has more treble extension where the zs7 rolled off pretty quickly. Cymbals's ssss sound extend more in the zax, but no sibilance. 
The size and body shape of zax is more ergonomic and similar to zs10 pro style.


----------



## PhonoPhi

voicemaster said:


> If you like zs7, you probably won't like zax. It is a pretty neutral sounding iem. If you ever heard cca c10, the zax has a similar bass quantity which you can hear it, but it doesn't slam "in ur face" unless the bass is really turned up in the mix. The mid is more forward and detailed than the zs7. While both are airy due to the vents, but the zax has more treble extension where the zs7 rolled off pretty quickly. Cymbals's ssss sound extend more in the zax, but no sibilance.
> The size and body shape of zax is more ergonomic and similar to zs10 pro style.


For me C10 is a bit warm, and then CA16 totally eclipsed C10 doing the same (very smooth, quite tamed treble) on a higher level.
I personally do miss some treble in CA16.

So I am looking forward to your comparison of ZAX and CA16, in particular for the midbass and treble.

(I am almost convinced now to get ZAX, as my ~50'-th IEM  )


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> Hope you like it. Been following KZ since the ZS1 era and it is quite fascinating on how much they had accomplished in term of sound tuning and build quality. The turning point of their sound tuning I believe was when they released ZSN.


So, I just ordered the TRN BT20 solely because of this picture!!  I was on the fence but it looks like you’re happy with them!  Thank you!


----------



## voicemaster

Just to clarify, when I say the ZAX is flatter than ZSX or ZS7, doesn't mean it is sterile neutral boring flat. It still warmth compared to a true flat IEM, it just it is more neutral than the other KZs I have tried so far. It is still a fun sounding IEM although basshead might find it a little bit lacking on the bass quantity. Built quality is typical KZ as of late (its great) and I like the matte finish on the face plate unlike ZS10 pro while looks cool but a finger print magnet af.


----------



## unifutomaki (Sep 18, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Just to clarify, when I say the ZAX is flatter than ZSX or ZS7, doesn't mean it is sterile neutral boring flat. It still warmth compared to a true flat IEM, it just it is more neutral than the other KZs I have tried so far. It is still a fun sounding IEM although basshead might find it a little bit lacking on the bass quantity. Built quality is typical KZ as of late (its great) and I like the matte finish on the face plate unlike ZS10 pro while looks cool but a finger print magnet af.



Yes it definitely has more of a slight V-shaped tuning. A/Bing them with the Moondrop SSR has been interesting to say the least 

Edit: As a case in point, queuing up Royals by Lorde on the ZAX, there is a definite thump to the bassline and you can definitely feel the air moving through the diaphragm if you concentrate hard enough. But it's always polite and stops short of being in your face. I would consider this as being "enough bass", but that is obviously dependent on taste.


----------



## voicemaster

whitete said:


> So, I just ordered the TRN BT20 solely because of this picture!!  I was on the fence but it looks like you’re happy with them!  Thank you!


Always like the idea of bluetooth module that turn detachable IEM into wireless. I think the pro model is a winner. Battery life, auto on/off, auto connect, better built quality than previous model. 
I also detached the plastic part of the charging case from the "case" as I mostly only use it at home.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

voicemaster said:


> If you like zs7, you probably won't like zax. It is a pretty neutral sounding iem. If you ever heard cca c10, the zax has a similar bass quantity which you can hear it, but it doesn't slam "in ur face" unless the bass is really turned up in the mix. The mid is more forward and detailed than the zs7. While both are airy due to the vents, but the zax has more treble extension where the zs7 rolled off pretty quickly. Cymbals's ssss sound extend more in the zax, but no sibilance.
> The size and body shape of zax is more ergonomic and similar to zs10 pro style.



I really look forward to ZAX if they're similar to C10. C10 is one of my favourites and I absolutely loved its tuning.


----------



## voicemaster

Dani157 said:


> I really look forward to ZAX if they're similar to C10. C10 is one of my favourites and I absolutely loved its tuning.


The only similarity between the ZAX and C10 is the way they present the bass. Mid and treble are where the ZAX really shine imho. Its really clear with an open sound.


----------



## doushi

Hello All. I am new here. I just received the ZAX. Upon unboxing, I hear a noticeble hiss / static noise, especially at low volume. Is it normal? I was listening to podcast and some mp3 music from phone using meizu usb-c to 3.5 adapter. Did not hear the hiss when using BQEYZ KB1, or faaeal hibiscus, or westone b50 or Shure SE215. Is it related to bad source or does the ZAX require some burn in?


----------



## voicemaster

doushi said:


> Hello All. I am new here. I just received the ZAX. Upon unboxing, I hear a noticeble hiss / static noise, especially at low volume. Is it normal? I was listening to podcast and some mp3 music from phone using meizu usb-c to 3.5 adapter. Did not hear the hiss when using BQEYZ KB1, or faaeal hibiscus, or westone b50 or Shure SE215. Is it related to bad source or does the ZAX require some burn in?


Do you have any other 2 pins cable? It shouldn't have hiss or static noise at low volume.


----------



## doushi (Sep 18, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Do you have any other 2 pins cable? It shouldn't have hiss or static noise at low volume.


I got faaeal cable and a YY cable with 2 pins. I can hear similar hiss on the ZAX on all 3 cables. On phone + meizu adapter, I hear the hiss when an audio was played. On laptop,connecting via ifi iDSD, there is a hiss as soon as the ZAX is connected to the audio jack, without any audio playing. I tried same setup on my other iem (KB1, hibiscus, and westone b50), and none have the static noise. The noise is obvious, but nothing I cant live with. Maybe I got a bad unit. Not sure if returning to Aliexpress worth the hassle


----------



## chinmie

doushi said:


> Hello All. I am new here. I just received the ZAX. Upon unboxing, I hear a noticeble hiss / static noise, especially at low volume. Is it normal? I was listening to podcast and some mp3 music from phone using meizu usb-c to 3.5 adapter. Did not hear the hiss when using BQEYZ KB1, or faaeal hibiscus, or westone b50 or Shure SE215. Is it related to bad source or does the ZAX require some burn in?



do you have other audio source to try? might be the ZAX is more sensitive than the other IEMs, making the Meizu's noise floor more apparent on the ZAX


----------



## doushi

chinmie said:


> do you have other audio source to try? might be the ZAX is more sensitive than the other IEMs, making the Meizu's noise floor more apparent on the ZAX


Thank you! I did try with laptop + ifi iDSD. This setup gave me the hiss even without any audio playing. But after reading your post, I plugged the ZAX + faaeal cable directly onto my laptop's 3.5 mm port and I dont hear the noise! 

Seems like you are right that the ZAX might be more sensitive. I never noticed the noise on meizu with other iem (kb1, hibiscus, cca 16). 
I never had good source, so I guess the ZAX might be less forgiving to bad source


----------



## DynamicEars

JazzVinyl said:


> Regarding the "Vents", I had a look under a magnifying glass, and there are two small holes under the "vent" openings one on the left most vent (at the top) and another at the right most, again at the top.  It is not like the entire area that appears to be vented, is open to the air.   The holes are larger than what you find on many a dynamic driver iem, but they are not huge.



Congratulations Sherlock! You have solved the entire mistery series of ZAX.
Vents that see through, vents that can be go through with hair, but no sound leaks, and no big effect when vents are closed.

This is the logical answer and have been answered correctly so the vents are half aesthetic only with small holes act as real vents but still bigger than usual KZ vents. But not all those vents are functional.

Nicee

Seems like ZAX tuning, fit, vents, design and colors are winner to me. Gotta grab them.
And make a great tws.




voicemaster said:


> Always like the idea of bluetooth module that turn detachable IEM into wireless. I think the pro model is a winner. Battery life, auto on/off, auto connect, better built quality than previous model.
> I also detached the plastic part of the charging case from the "case" as I mostly only use it at home.



Nice. I forgot to ask about bt20s pro, how is the latency for watching movies? Are they have so called "gaming mode" like some tws?


----------



## chinmie

doushi said:


> Thank you! I did try with laptop + ifi iDSD. This setup gave me the hiss even without any audio playing. But after reading your post, I plugged the ZAX + faaeal cable directly onto my laptop's 3.5 mm port and I dont hear the noise!
> 
> Seems like you are right that the ZAX might be more sensitive. I never noticed the noise on meizu with other iem (kb1, hibiscus, cca 16).
> I never had good source, so I guess the ZAX might be less forgiving to bad source



glad to help  
using attenuator like the IFI EarBuddy can help to reduce the noise, or better yet, you can invest on a better adapter than the meizu. 

but i see you have an idsd already, which should have the ieMatch attenuator built-in... you might want to try the ZAX with it


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Congratulations Sherlock! You have solved the entire mistery series of ZAX.
> Vents that see through, vents that can be go through with hair, but no sound leaks, and no big effect when vents are closed.
> 
> This is the logical answer and have been answered correctly so the vents are half aesthetic only with small holes act as real vents but still bigger than usual KZ vents. But not all those vents are functional.
> ...


Movie is good, no problem there. They don't have gaming mode, but I am using them to play Dota2 and it is fine. Maybe if you play FPS game then it will show some delay.


----------



## ricemanhk (Sep 19, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> Regarding the "Vents", I had a look under a magnifying glass, and there are two small holes under the "vent" openings one on the left most vent (at the top) and another at the right most, again at the top.  It is not like the entire area that appears to be vented, is open to the air.   The holes are larger than what you find on many a dynamic driver iem, but they are not huge.



Not sure where larger vents are, just looks like a tight mesh to me, so it's not entirely open but there is enough room for some air and sound to flow. IMO it's a good balance, we use IEMs partly for the isolation and if it was fully open many ppl probably wouldn't like it.

Edit: just tried the hair trick, it goes through the mesh in every vent, so the whole mesh is real!


----------



## Wgibson

My very scientific method of testing the vents is to put it in my mouth and suck on it (no joke.) Less airflow than V90 but there is some. ZAX soundstage is great, compared to CA16, C16, V90, ZSX, C12 the ZAX blows all of them out of the water and is a steal for less than $55. It is balanced and does everything well without sounding flat or boring, lots of detail, no sibilance despite the BA in the nozzle, well defined and deep bass, vocals are natural and in the right place in front of your head, not behind or below. The CA16 small/short nozzle really put me off, I like starline and inverted starline tips but they are too loose on the CA16, so that is probably just me being lazy but if I spent more time on finding the right tips, CA16 might get close to the ZAX. Hard to describe, but I'm going to grab a backup pair of ZAX for sure.


----------



## purplesun

Wgibson said:


> My very scientific method of testing the vents is to put it in my mouth and suck on it (no joke.)


"Dammit Bones! What's wrong with him!?"
"Sensors are showing something stuck in his throat, Jim!"
"Can we beam it out?!"
"We can't lock-on the strange silvery material! It has an impenetrable mesh structure"
"Just put a red shirt on him, and start the next episode!"


----------



## Wgibson

purplesun said:


> "Dammit Bones! What's wrong with him!?"
> "Sensors are showing something stuck in his throat, Jim!"
> "Can we beam it out?!"
> "We can't lock-on the strange silvery material! It has an impenetrable mesh structure"
> "Just put a red shirt on him, and start the next episode!"



Don't calculate when you can measure, dont measure when you can test.


----------



## astermk

Wgibson said:


> My very scientific method of testing the vents is to put it in my mouth and suck on it (no joke.) Less airflow than V90 but there is some. ZAX soundstage is great, compared to CA16, C16, V90, ZSX, C12 the ZAX blows all of them out of the water and is a steal for less than $55. It is balanced and does everything well without sounding flat or boring, lots of detail, no sibilance despite the BA in the nozzle, well defined and deep bass, vocals are natural and in the right place in front of your head, not behind or below. The CA16 small/short nozzle really put me off, I like starline and inverted starline tips but they are too loose on the CA16, so that is probably just me being lazy but if I spent more time on finding the right tips, CA16 might get close to the ZAX. Hard to describe, but I'm going to grab a backup pair of ZAX for sure.


ZAX blowing the CA16 out of the water in soundstage? Here I was thinking the CA16 sounds fairly wide already...


----------



## Wgibson

astermk said:


> ZAX blowing the CA16 out of the water in soundstage? Here I was thinking the CA16 sounds fairly wide already...



Could be my lack of patience with finding the right tips, but yes that's my take on it. The CA16 are nice, I might still pick up the C12 over them depending on what I'm listening to, but if you're on the fence about the ZAX... Don't be.


----------



## astermk

Wgibson said:


> Could be my lack of patience with finding the right tips, but yes that's my take on it. The CA16 are nice, I might still pick up the C12 over them depending on what I'm listening to, but if you're on the fence about the ZAX... Don't be.


I'm not, I already ordered the ZAX before my CA16 even arrived! Looks like one's going to be sold and I can guess which.

I'm lucky that I get a pretty great seal with the stock tips on the CA16 but yeah, the nozzle situation is infuriating as none of the tips I like stay on them, not even the freebie tips the seller sent with them lmao. And the design is just so cheap for that kind of price. They're champs when it comes to sound though.


----------



## Wgibson

astermk said:


> I'm not, I already ordered the ZAX before my CA16 even arrived! Looks like one's going to be sold and I can guess which.
> 
> I'm lucky that I get a pretty great seal with the stock tips on the CA16 but yeah, the nozzle situation is infuriating as none of the tips I like stay on them, not even the freebie tips the seller sent with them lmao. And the design is just so cheap for that kind of price. They're champs when it comes to sound though.



Seeiously considering adding a piece of heat shrink tubing to the ca16 nozzles to increase the diameter, and friction, so I can fit normal tips. I tried various silicone o-rings to space the tips out a bit because the nozzles are short, none really worked.

Every other KZ and CCA I have, or am aware of, has "normal sized" longer and larger diameter nozzles than the CA16. Just... why?


----------



## Wgibson

While I'm at it, the silver ZAX cable is nicer than previous KZ silver cables. More supple, less memory, not as prone to getting tangled, but still too long to the Y split and no slider.


----------



## Keputs

Wgibson said:


> While I'm at it, the silver ZAX cable is nicer than previous KZ silver cables. More supple, less memory, not as prone to getting tangled, but still too long to the Y split and no slider.


KBEAR 8 core may suffice.


----------



## citral23

voicemaster said:


> Just to clarify, when I say the ZAX is flatter than ZSX or ZS7, doesn't mean it is sterile neutral boring flat. It still warmth compared to a true flat IEM, it just it is more neutral than the other KZs I have tried so far. It is still a fun sounding IEM although basshead might find it a little bit lacking on the bass quantity. Built quality is typical KZ as of late (its great) and I like the matte finish on the face plate unlike ZS10 pro while looks cool but a finger print magnet af.



I get what you mean, the zs7 has extremely recessed mids. I prefer neutral myself but am a bit wary cause the zs10 pro felt so enclosed, boomy and fatiguing to me, but I think I'm gonna give a shot to the zax.

Altho a t2+ would probably be the better choice by far for my taste I don't like how it looks while I love the zax and we all have stupid reasons sometimes


----------



## astermk

citral23 said:


> Altho a t2+ would probably be the better choice by far for my taste I don't like how it looks while I love the zax and we all have stupid reasons sometimes


I don't think that's stupid, IEMs are basically a fashion accessory and the Tin T2 Plus are some of the ugliest IEMs I've ever seen. Tin's designs have really been going downhill since the T2/3. ZAX look great IMO but only the black model, the silver/blue looks goofy and cheap.


----------



## Danjen22

Can anyone recommend foam tips that would fit the ZX SD1 similar to the silicon tips that come with them please?


----------



## rokushoo

After reading about people having problems with their paragraph C connectors cracking, I decided to take a look at my ZSN's. One connector had several small fractures and the other crumbled as soon as I removed the cable. I had no other plans last night, so I decided to remove the broken connectors and replace them with mmcx.


----------



## pmvaldon

Wgibson said:


> Could be my lack of patience with finding the right tips, but yes that's my take on it. The CA16 are nice, I might still pick up the C12 over them depending on what I'm listening to, but if you're on the fence about the ZAX... Don't be.



Agree with this.  ZAX is better than CA16.  Comfort, Clarity, Less power to drive etc.


----------



## voicemaster

citral23 said:


> I get what you mean, the zs7 has extremely recessed mids. I prefer neutral myself but am a bit wary cause the zs10 pro felt so enclosed, boomy and fatiguing to me, but I think I'm gonna give a shot to the zax.
> 
> Altho a t2+ would probably be the better choice by far for my taste I don't like how it looks while I love the zax and we all have stupid reasons sometimes


Zax is far from boomy. Its tonality still warm tho. It sounds signature is similar to cca c10, while cca ca16 is similar to zs10 pro.


----------



## voicemaster

pmvaldon said:


> Agree with this.  ZAX is better than CA16.  Comfort, Clarity, Less power to drive etc.


Yes the ZAX is the better one for me. Decided to return the CA16 and get the black version of ZAX instead. I just don't really like the mid bass bump and I don't really want to EQ.


----------



## Sebulr

Just ordered a purple zsx from amazon UK for 33 squid, coming tomorrow, for that price, might be good if my connectors give up on my beloved zs10 pros.


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## PhonoPhi (Sep 19, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> ... cca ca16 is similar to zs10 pro.


(???)
New CCA C10 pro is similar to ZS10 pro.

CA16 is actually one of the opposites of ZS10 pro and is for me an upgrade of C10.

I have these both CCAs.

Now, there is a BGGR video, where he compares CA16 and ZAX and prefers the former. Based on his "curves"  and description, CA16 is milder than ZAX with less treble.


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## voicemaster (Sep 19, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> (???)
> New CCA C10 pro is similar to ZS10 pro.
> 
> CA16 is actually one of the opposites of ZS10 pro and is for me an upgrade of C10.
> ...


Let me clarify it a bit. When I said the ca16 similar to zs10 pro, what I meant is the characteristic. Fun with a lot of energy and has that treble that bites you while not sibilance.
I have watched BGGR video too and that also one of the reason I ordered the ca16. But O trust my own ears and having tried both, I prefer the zax. I am not saying the ca16 is bad, far from it.
I actually have them all lol. C10, zs10 pro x2, zsx and c12.


----------



## PhonoPhi

voicemaster said:


> Let me clarify it a bit. When I said the ca16 similar to zs10 pro, what I meant is the characteristic. Fun with a lot of energy and has that treble that bites you while not sibilance.
> I have watched BGGR video too and that also one of the reason I ordered the ca16. But O trust my own ears and having tried both, I prefer the zax. I am not saying the ca16 is bad, far from it.
> I actually have them all lol. C10, zs10 pro x2, zsx and c12.


Right, I have them all too  other than ZAX, but plus C10 pro.

To me CA16 is so much more C10 than ZS10 pro - gentle coherence rather cheerful V.

CA16 also reminded me E3000  that you need to drive it much harder to sound alive due to gentle treble.

Possibly, our impression is so different that I am listening at low volumes (?)


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> Right, I have them all too  other than ZAX, but plus C10 pro.
> 
> To me CA16 is so much more C10 than ZS10 pro - gentle coherence rather cheerful V.
> 
> ...


I usually listen at higher volume 50%+ and the mid bass is too much for my liking. You should try the ZAX if you can buy from place you can easily return. I like bass, don't get me wrong, I love my Blon BL03.


----------



## PhonoPhi

voicemaster said:


> I usually listen at higher volume 50%+ and the mid bass is too much for my liking. You should try the ZAX if you can buy from place you can easily return. I like bass, don't get me wrong, I love my Blon BL03.


It makes some sense.
I try to use lower volumes and started to struggle a bit with CA16 similar to E3000.

I use wide-bore tips that I feel mitigate excesses on both ends of the sound spectrum.

I love my BL-03 too and never felt that mid-bass is too much for me there (unlike even some Sonion  bass BAs).

I will definitely order ZAX, currently contemplating to wait for cyan becoming available or just go for black


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> It makes some sense.
> I try to use lower volumes and started to struggle a bit with CA16 similar to E3000.
> 
> I use wide-bore tips that I feel mitigate excesses on both ends of the sound spectrum.
> ...


Over here in the USA, the blue version is available on amazon prime and cost $73 and there is a $10 coupon. The black version cost around $90 if you want prime shipping. I am ordering the black version on AE.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> I try to use lower volumes and started to struggle a bit with CA16 similar to E3000.
> I will definitely order ZAX, currently contemplating to wait for cyan becoming available or just go for black


Yeah, I think the ZAX might sit well with you. Right now, I am going about the house just listening to smooth R&B on a Benjie T6 & ZAX at low volumes. Had me thinking "This is really NICE!". Simple, basic yet good details coming through. Bit of an outlier sound sig for me, but enjoyable


----------



## JazzVinyl

rokushoo said:


> After reading about people having problems with their paragraph C connectors cracking, I decided to take a look at my ZSN's. One connector had several small fractures and the other crumbled as soon as I removed the cable. I had no other plans last night, so I decided to remove the broken connectors and replace them with mmcx.



WOW!!  Nice work!!


----------



## unifutomaki

Tonight's listening highlight on the ZAX: November Rain by Guns N' Roses. The drumming is impactful and intense, with the ZAX reproducing each beat with thump and authority. The vocals are dry and composed, managing to find their place without demanding all your attention. The guitars, on the other hand, are very prominent, soaring and creating a sense of height to the soundstage; piano notes have a pleasing shimmer and decay. Subtle cymbal taps and other smaller details are also present and can be picked out if you're listening intently, however the ZAX isn't concerned about making sure you hear each and every detail; it is a balance between musical fun and analytical detail that it attempts to create here, and quite successfully in my opinion. 

Overall, the ZAX has a pretty realistic and warm timbre for a hybrid, with little to no BA harshness or lean characteristics. Even weeb music (which I listen to a fair bit of) featuring high-pitched female vocals never manages to throw the ZAX off. Very impressive for ChiFi in general, not to mention KZ in particular


----------



## voicemaster

Really love how the ZAX sound with this song. Cymbals sound really good and spacious. Instrument separation is top notch, everything is clear and detailed. KZ has a winner here imho.


----------



## voicemaster

And my favorite video to test for soundstage, recorded on a freaking Samsung Galaxy S6 edge lol.
The ZAX sounds absolutely amazing.


----------



## JazzVinyl

On a completely different note (Genre) I listened, late last night  to Tomasz Stanko's "New York Quartet" doing the 2 CD set "Wislawa".  

Wislawa - an ECM 2 CD set



I have been "studying" this recording since it came out in 2013.   This is on the ECM label, which means it received the outstanding (audiophile) studio recording techniques that ECM is quite famous for.

The amount of texture and nuance brought forth by the ZAX, is quite admirable.  There are situations where it is just piano and drums, the piano is being played not by the keys on the keyboard, but the pianist is up under the lid of the full grand piano, striking the strings in various ways to generate sounds that are not what you associate with piano.

The ZAX do a nice job in presenting the unusual arrangements and the interactions between the musicians.  The drum kit is also played in unusual ways, many subtle strikes on various surfaces other than the drum heads, add to the mystic.  The ZAX take you on quite a sonic adventure.  

A realization of subtle details, time and space, along with the 'even handed' frequency response of the ZAX rewards the lucky listener.

(( Remove distractions and listen in the dark ))

Cheers, all...


----------



## citral23 (Sep 20, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> Tonight's listening highlight on the ZAX: November Rain by Guns N' Roses. The drumming is impactful and intense, with the ZAX reproducing each beat with thump and authority. The vocals are dry and composed, managing to find their place without demanding all your attention. The guitars, on the other hand, are very prominent, soaring and creating a sense of height to the soundstage; piano notes have a pleasing shimmer and decay. Subtle cymbal taps and other smaller details are also present and can be picked out if you're listening intently, however the ZAX isn't concerned about making sure you hear each and every detail; it is a balance between musical fun and analytical detail that it attempts to create here, and quite successfully in my opinion.
> 
> Overall, the ZAX has a pretty realistic and warm timbre for a hybrid, with little to no BA harshness or lean characteristics. Even weeb music (which I listen to a fair bit of) featuring high-pitched female vocals never manages to throw the ZAX off. Very impressive for ChiFi in general, not to mention KZ in particular



Lmao the pendantic verbiage used by some people when reviewing items always cracks me up

An intense sense of fullfilness is conveyed to the ear canals of the subject hahaha


----------



## Sebulr

I'm really enjoying my zsx that came today, I got them for £33 next day. They sound like the zs10 Pro but without the harshness on the snaredrums. Smooth and detailed at the same time. I think the bass has a slightly faster leading edge too. They fit my ears wonderfully like the zsr. They have earned a set of extra large tips already, and those aren't easy to come by. 

Might be my my new daily driver.


----------



## unifutomaki (Sep 20, 2020)

citral23 said:


> Lmao the pendantic verbiage used by some people when reviewing items always cracks me up



Pedantry and verbiage you say? Very well, here's the emotion-free translation:

A famous classic rock song was played on the ZAX. There is a full and lifelike presentation of drums and guitars. Vocals are dry and slightly laid back. Piano notes are textured. High-end details are present but not over-emphasised. A keen listener would notice them. Though hybrid IEMs have often been criticised for their shrillness and artificial tonality relative to single-DD designs within the same price class, there is little evidence of this on the ZAX. It remains controlled even on tracks with a prominent upper-mid focus.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 21, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> Pedantry and verbiage you say? Very well, here's the emotion-free translation:
> 
> A famous classic rock song was played on the ZAX. There is a full and lifelike presentation of drums and guitars. Vocals are dry and slightly laid back. Piano notes are textured. High-end details are present but not over-emphasised. A keen listener would notice them. Though hybrid IEMs have often been criticised for their shrillness and artificial tonality relative to single-DD designs within the same price class, there is little evidence of this on the ZAX. It remains controlled even on tracks with a prominent upper-mid focus.



My ZAX sound just like yours @unifutomaki, your descriptions are accurate.    If there is anything to critisize, maybe the sub bass is a tad "too polite"?


----------



## astermk

First written ZAX review I've seen: 
https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zax-review


----------



## Keputs

astermk said:


> First written ZAX review I've seen:
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zax-review


Yup! And he's still bitching about the packaging, cable, tips and things you'll never ever see KZ doing. Lol!


----------



## unifutomaki

astermk said:


> First written ZAX review I've seen:
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zax-review



That's a rather... wanting review. 


Eartips are rubbish? Starlines fit me just fine, are supple and pliable, no irritation to my ear canals whatsoever.
Cable is rubbish? The new silver cable is pretty decent actually. Sure, some metal hardware wouldn't hurt, but the cable itself is pliable and non-sticky with comfortable ear-hooks.
ZAX not worth getting, just go for the T2 Pro Plus (I assume that's what he meant to say, how is the T2 Pro still part of the conversation at this point)? Dude I have both. And they serve entirely different purposes. ZAX is great for subway, street, on-the-go use where the T2 Plus would be a touch bass-light and struggle with isolation. T2 Plus is great for sitting at home in a comfy chair and and chilling out to music.
ZAX a side-grade to older KZ models like the (and may I quote) ZSX, CCA C16, CA16, ZS10? Like, the ZS10 Pro with metallic timbre, the ZSX which doesn't fit, the CA16 which has poorer build, again a weird shape, and a TWS style nozzle, and the C16 which isn't even a hybrid?
Eeesh the KZ prejudice sometimes...


----------



## astermk (Sep 21, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> That's a rather... wanting review.
> 
> 
> Eartips are rubbish? Starlines fit me just fine, are supple and pliable, no irritation to my ear canals whatsoever.
> ...



Right? I can actually understand some points, like the cable, because even the new cable seems to tangle a lot and I would like a chin slider at least, but in my experience KZ Starlines are very decent stock tips, even though I personally don't use them.

As for ZAX not being an upgrade over the ZS10 Pro, all I can say is the CA16 already murders the ZS10 Pro in all technical aspects even though the tuning might be "boring" compared to it, and people say the ZAX is even better than that.

Reviewer definitely went in ready to hate the IEM.


----------



## r31ya

Zpolt post the comparison audio of ZAX with CA16, 
Yes, not representation of the real thing but at very least it could give you idea on how it might sound.

ZAX bass definitely take a step back compared to full on bass of CA16. maybe it's the semi open back lowering the total amount despite it have bigger dynamic.
The treble is a bit sharp/metallic compared to the more laidback treble of CA16, all in all i could understand why BGGAR prefer CA16 over ZAX.

Still, i want to hear it myself to hear the proper "airiness" of it. ZS7 have proper airiness but i find the overall sound a bit lacking when compared to ZS10 Pro. If ZAX is proper evolution of ZS7 and ZS10 Pro/ZSX, i might take ZAX over CA16. CA16 is nice but at $50+, the ZS3like build is a bit much for me. ZAX won the looks (and maybe fit) for me.


----------



## unifutomaki (Sep 21, 2020)

r31ya said:


> at very least it could give you idea on how it might sound.





r31ya said:


> The treble is a bit sharp/metallic




Sorry but this just doesn't ring true to me at all, not as far as actually listening to the darn thing is concerned. I really, really, really would not advise trying to infer how something sounds from a YouTube video, it's an even worse practice than trying to hear a FR graph.

Frankly not a good day for audio reviews it seems. At this rate even I could be a reviewer.


----------



## PhonoPhi

unifutomaki said:


> Sorry but this just doesn't ring true to me at all, not as far as actually listening to the darn thing is concerned. I really, really, really would not advise trying to infer how something sounds from a YouTube video, it's an even worse practice than trying to hear a FR graph.
> 
> Frankly not a good day for audio reviews it seems. At this rate even I could be a reviewer.


For me, after witnessing few hypes and what not, I came to a notion that my cat can be a reviewer (any cat will definitely win in "being impartial" category )


----------



## citral23 (Sep 21, 2020)

Everything must be taken with a grain of salt and "hearing" iems over youtube is no different.

That being said I'll take all info I can get, and this is still more factual than a random dude on forums telling me how this iem isn't concerned about making sure I hear every detail, which doesn't mean anything.

I've listened to comparisons from this dude on iems I own and found it rather relevant, despite the playlist being absolutely atrocious it really showcased the mids in relation to the other frequencies I found.

Either way, I see no reason to hate on the showcasing effort.

Also everyone should welcome contradictory opinions in this space, and take it as an opportunity to reconsider carefully and try to understand it, there's almost invariably some truth in it, nobody has the final word and your opinion is not superior to someone else opinion. 

And it will probably change in 6 months anyway, ppl tend to get caught by the novelty effect.


----------



## Tonymac136

citral23 said:


> Everything must be taken with a grain of salt and "hearing" iems over youtube is no different.
> 
> That being said I'll take all info I can get, and this is still more factual than a random dude on forums telling me how this iem isn't concerned about making sure I hear every detail, which doesn't mean anything.
> 
> ...



And that's it. Watching YouTube and reading on here, you can work out whose tastes in music and IEMs are similar enough to yours that you have some idea what to expect. One guy in particular who posts on here, mostly I hear much the same as he seems to. But if he says an IEM has good bass I know it's going to be too heavy in the bass for me.
If I like something, don't take any notice of me. If I like 2 or 3 that you like and talk about things you can here, then maybe my opinion is valid TO YOU.


----------



## courierdriver

Tonymac136 said:


> And that's it. Watching YouTube and reading on here, you can work out whose tastes in music and IEMs are similar enough to yours that you have some idea what to expect. One guy in particular who posts on here, mostly I hear much the same as he seems to. But if he says an IEM has good bass I know it's going to be too heavy in the bass for me.
> If I like something, don't take any notice of me. If I like 2 or 3 that you like and talk about things you can here, then maybe my opinion is valid TO YOU.


Yup, I agree. The most important thing is to recognize what your preferred sound signature is and then go from there.


----------



## chinmie

Tonymac136 said:


> And that's it. Watching YouTube and reading on here, you can work out whose tastes in music and IEMs are similar enough to yours that you have some idea what to expect. One guy in particular who posts on here, mostly I hear much the same as he seems to. But if he says an IEM has good bass I know it's going to be too heavy in the bass for me.
> If I like something, don't take any notice of me. If I like 2 or 3 that you like and talk about things you can here, then maybe my opinion is valid TO YOU.



yup, pattern recognition skill is very important in life. those who can't do it well would just follow people's choices and blames them if that said choices don't fit them {and blaming the hype)   
the way i see it, those who seems to "hype" a certain product are just means that they are loving and enjoying it, that doesn't guarantee that everyone and me would also like it, but it is my job and responsibilities to find the pattern and make the decisions myself, and certainly not blaming other people's opinion if i ended up not liking it. it's just meaning I'm learning a new pattern


----------



## voicemaster

Or do like me, just buy them all


----------



## r31ya (Sep 21, 2020)

There is a big need to understand your own preference and understand the other guy (your reviewer or friends) preferences. So you could gauge how it actually sound  (how it sound to you) compared to what he they said.

Local IEM store that i go to have great selection but the dude running it (possibly due to being audio techincian) love flat gear, like boring superflat gear.
So when he recommend me something he likes, i always double check whether its too boring for me. Thankfully he (being a seller) also begun to understand my taste so his recommendation get more accurate to my liking.

"_It's like the vocalist whispering to your ear_" to me its like, "_it's like the vocalist shouting in my ears, i prefer him/her to be in front of me not by my ear_"


----------



## unifutomaki

Always love when folks can't let things go and hold every word you've previously said against you, no matter how inconsequential it really is... Feels like Facebook to me 

He's right, I'm just some random guy, I never claimed to be any sort of expert. I too read others' reviews, try to pick out what is effective about their style, what makes sense to me, and then try my hand at something like that. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. It's not like anybody is paying me to do this, or that my life depends on it.


----------



## r31ya

citral23 said:


> Everything must be taken with a grain of salt and "hearing" iems over youtube is no different.
> 
> That being said I'll take all info I can get, and this is still more factual than a random dude on forums telling me how this iem isn't concerned about making sure I hear every detail, which doesn't mean anything.
> 
> ...



Not sure on the why but yeah, zpolt playlist is atrocious. As tiring as it is to listen to Z-reviews, he have better playlist on listening vids.
---
And to repeat, yeah, Listening to youtube video on how iem might sound is bad. Recording method and your own gear comes to play and like i said, i did it to have an idea on how it _might _sound.

Thankfully, i begun to be able to identify which one is which before zpolt shows it, thanks to reading the impression in here or in youtube review. i read statement like CCA16 bass is bigger and treble is smoother/laid back which may have effect on me due to i seek for it, nonetheless i actually can hear "the why" the impression is that way. 
One thing i definitely can't catch due to my gear is how airy ZAX is and thanks to covid and stuff, i can't do listening/trying session on my go to iem shop to feel it.


----------



## TheVortex (Sep 23, 2020)

Here is my take on the EDX.



Currently under £5 which is astonishing considering the cable on it's own is just under £3.

I read somewhere that this is a refreshed ED12 but I don't know if that's true?

I also have the ZSX which sounds very close to the ZAX and so many drivers in such a small shell is quite a feat.


----------



## jant71

TheVortex said:


> I also have the ZAX which sounds very close to the ZAX and so many drivers in such a small shell is quite a feat.



I would think the ZAX would sound pretty close to the ZAX.


----------



## jaydm99

Sauce


----------



## Slater (Sep 22, 2020)

jaydm99 said:


> Sauce



I wonder why the SKS says “Restart” on the shells? What are they restarting?

Also, KZ is really missing the TWS money boat IMO. They are pumping out TWS with great specs like multi driver hybrids and all-BA. But they still are plagued with flaky Bluetooth connectivity. And that is THE single most important thing with a TWS earphone. I mean, you can’t even have a TWS without Bluetooth.

If they will take the time to figure out the Bluetooth issues - hire some Bluetooth specialists, outsource the Bluetooth portion to a more knowledgeable TWS company, etc - they could absolutely OWN the TWS market.

But all the drivers in the world won’t save them as long as they still have Bluetooth problems.


----------



## baskingshark

Slater said:


> I wonder why the SKS says “Restart” on the shells? What are they restarting?
> 
> Also, KZ is really missing the TWS money boat IMO. They are pumping out TWS with great specs like multi driver hybrids and all-BA. But they still are plagued with flaky Bluetooth connectivity. And that is THE single most important thing with a TWS earphone. I mean, you can’t even have a TWS without Bluetooth.
> 
> ...



It isn't only the BT connectivity, their previous wireless models had some disgraceful battery lifespan! Which will drop inevitably with more battery charges.

I'll wait for reviews on these sets, but seems their wireless team is going down the 2018 - 2019 KZ route of releasing almost weekly sidegrades/marginal upgrades. Perhaps using some of us as beta testers sigh.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> I wonder why the SKS says “Restart” on the shells? What are they restarting?
> 
> Also, KZ is really missing the TWS money boat IMO. They are pumping out TWS with great specs like multi driver hybrids and all-BA. But they still are plagued with flaky Bluetooth connectivity. And that is THE single most important thing with a TWS earphone. I mean, you can’t even have a TWS without Bluetooth.
> 
> ...


Don't forget the short battery life in 2020!!


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> I wonder why the SKS says “Restart” on the shells? What are they restarting?
> 
> Also, KZ is really missing the TWS money boat IMO. They are pumping out TWS with great specs like multi driver hybrids and all-BA. But they still are plagued with flaky Bluetooth connectivity. And that is THE single most important thing with a TWS earphone. I mean, you can’t even have a TWS without Bluetooth.
> 
> ...



lol i asked exact same question on TWS thread. and comment similarly too about BT connection and batt life.


----------



## Slater (Sep 22, 2020)

Well, I totally agree that the battery is crap. But that is an easier issue to fix AFTER the Bluetooth is perfect.

Bluetooth is like the foundation of a house. Screw that up, and it doesn’t matter how great the rest of the house is.

One of the important components of Bluetooth design definitely has an affect on battery life. So by fully optimizing the Bluetooth portion (including choosing the right chipset etc), will allow longer battery life.

And once the Bluetooth is perfect, the 2nd part of battery is to use a larger battery (and one of higher quality). A member posted photos of the inside of a KZ TWS a few weeks ago, and in that photo it was clear that there was room for a slightly larger battery. So a combination of a larger and higher quality battery, plus fully optimized Bluetooth circuit design will significantly improve overall battery life.

But again, the #1 priority is still fixing Bluetooth.

So KZ, if you’re reading this - spend more time on those things, instead of wasting time designing more and more TWS sidegrade models.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I wonder why the SKS says “Restart” on the shells? What are they restarting?
> 
> Also, KZ is really missing the TWS money boat IMO. They are pumping out TWS with great specs like multi driver hybrids and all-BA. But they still are plagued with flaky Bluetooth connectivity. And that is THE single most important thing with a TWS earphone. I mean, you can’t even have a TWS without Bluetooth.
> 
> ...


Yup...totally agree. Battery life is also a problem for me with TWS in general. Until I can get at least 6-10 hours before requiring a re charge...I'm out. Amps in these TWS things seem kinda lame too. I've never seen anyone say these wireless devices can pump the volume like a wired set, with a good dac/amp or powerful dap.


----------



## Tonymac136

Oddly I've had no issues with Bluetooth connections on either of my sets. (Z1 and S1). Both of them sound pretty good for the money too, the Z1 in particular impressed me - timbre is up there with the BLON BL03. I'm not going to make great claims about battery life though - it sucks...


----------



## voicemaster

Tonymac136 said:


> Oddly I've had no issues with Bluetooth connections on either of my sets. (Z1 and S1). Both of them sound pretty good for the money too, the Z1 in particular impressed me - timbre is up there with the BLON BL03. I'm not going to make great claims about battery life though - it sucks...


KZ already got the sound tuning right (their latest IEM sounds amazing), what's left are battery life (6+ hours) and consistent Bluetooth connection. Then maybe ANC, ambiance mode, wireless charging after those two problems.


----------



## axhng

TheVortex said:


> Here is my take on the EDX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Got these yesterday and they're surprisingly decent for the price. I paid S$8.20 for it which is like 6 USD? They don't do anything amazingly well, but nothing stand out to me as particularly bad either. Everything just sounds... decent. For the price, I wasn't really expecting much, but ended up being pleasantly surprised as well.


----------



## r31ya

When it comes to TWS do AAC have much difference with APTX?
A local TWS makers, Eggel Energy Buds (single graphene DD) have APTX support in the price of KZ S2 (hybrid) who only AAC


----------



## TheVortex

jant71 said:


> I would think the ZAX would sound pretty close to the ZAX.



Oops. Fixed lol


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 23, 2020)

Anyone seen an FR graph of the EDX out there yet?


Edit: niinja'd myself.
https://www.ear-phone-review.com/entry/KZ_EDX?amp=1


----------



## ozkan

BubisUK said:


> Received them today. Does not feel as cheap as I thought they would do. Extremely light ~7 grams without tips. Will give my impression when I listen to them.



 Do they have a filter under the mesh?


----------



## DynamicEars

ozkan said:


> Do they have a filter under the mesh?




not sure but i dont remember KZ using mesh cloth as damper


----------



## snowmind

EDX, on the whole and the price you pay, seems like a little killer. I just hope the sound isn't too harsh and aggressive. I ordered a white unit.

Please put more sincere impressions of this model.


----------



## Wgibson

I have more than a few KZ with dampers, usually red mesh, sometimes that's the only screen, sometimes it is hidden behind a metal screen. ATE, ATR, ZSE, ZS3, ZS4, so I wouldn't doubt it.


----------



## Freetrademan

Just got the new KZ ZAX.
I've spent more than a decade searching for the perfect sound in an earphone. This is the 64th earphone (and 13th KZ earphone) in my IEM collection. By far the best I've ever heard. I think I'll stop now. I am finally satisfied.


----------



## Mouseman

I just got my ZAX today, and I'm very impressed by the coherence across all frequencies and the overall SQ. They're also more comfortable than my beloved ZSXs. They've got a great IEM on their hands here, and so far I'm very happy. I'll post more impressions after I get some hours on them.


----------



## tgx78

Freetrademan said:


> Just got the new KZ ZAX.
> I've spent more than a decade searching for the perfect sound in an earphone. This is the 64th earphone (and 13th KZ earphone) in my IEM collection. By far the best I've ever heard. I think I'll stop now. I am finally satisfied.



A great endorsement, but you sure you are going to stop searching? 😉


----------



## JazzVinyl

Freetrademan said:


> Just got the new KZ ZAX.
> I've spent more than a decade searching for the perfect sound in an earphone. This is the 64th earphone (and 13th KZ earphone) in my IEM collection. By far the best I've ever heard. I think I'll stop now. I am finally satisfied.



Nice!  Congrats, sir!

It would be very interesting if you were to list the 64 purchases


----------



## voicemaster

tgx78 said:


> A great endorsement, but you sure you are going to stop searching? 😉


Until KZ release 24 drivers IEM.


----------



## Freetrademan

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice collection!
> 
> I have had the KZ ATE's for a long time.  Always found them easy to listen to.  A friend bought the ZS10 and ZS10 Pro, he said he liked the ZS10, the best.
> 
> ...


I just got the ZAX and I am mightily impressed. I had been considering the Tin P1, but after listening to the ZAX, I can't imagine the P1 being better. I should say that I also bought the Tin T2 Pro and hated it (something about the treble), so maybe Tin's tuning isn't for me. What do you think of the ZAX vs the P1?


----------



## Freetrademan

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice!  Congrats, sir!
> 
> It would be very interesting if you were to list the 64 purchases


Well here's most of them. There are plenty more that I didn't record.
Sony MDR-EX70, JVC HA-FX66, Panasonic RP-TCM125w, Panasonic IEM, Panasonic ErgoFit RP-HJE120-g, V-Moda Vibe, V-Moda IEM, Creative Labs E-630, Altec-Lansing IEM, Ultimate Ears MetroFi 150v , Apple earbuds, Klipsch Image S4i, Shure E2C, Shure SE110, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, Monoprice 8320 IEM, Monoprice 12238 IEM, Brainwavz Delta IEM, Roku IEM, Mrice E300, Philips SHE3595 IEM, Sony XBA-H1 IEM, JVC HAFX5R, JVC HAFX8W, FiiO EX-1, Joyroom E103 , Superlux HD381F , Rock Zircon, SWING IE800 , DZAT DF-10, KZ ATE, KZ EDR2 , UiiSii HM7, Xiaomi Piston Colorful , Tennmak Pro, QKZ W1 , QKZ V1, VE Monk+, 1MORE Triple Driver, VIVO XE800, AKG/Samsung IEM , KZ ATR, KZ ZS3, KZ ZST, KZ ED12, KZ ES3, KZ ZS5, KZ ZS5 + wireless, KZ ZS6, KZ ZS6+wireless, KZ ZS10, KZ ES4, KZ ES4, KZ ZSN, KZ ZSN Pro, TRN V80, **** EN900, Monoprice True Wireless, Samsung Galaxy Buds, JBL Endurance Peak (wireless), Tin T2 Pro, KZ ZAX


----------



## Freetrademan

JazzVinyl said:


> Nice!  Congrats, sir!
> 
> It would be very interesting if you were to list the 64 purchases


 While I'm at it, I might as well rattle off my headphones, too:
Koss A130, Sennheiser HD520-ii, Sennheiser HD598, Sennheiser HD518, Shure SRH840, Monoprice 8323, Sennheiser HD202, Grado SR80e, Sennheiser HD600, Bang & Olufsen H6, OPPO PM-3, Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7, Sennheiser Momentum On-Ear, Philips Fidelio L2, Philips Fidelio X2, Koss PortaPro, Koss/Massdrop PortaPro X, Monoprice PHP1169, Monolith M1060 Planar, Sennheiser HD598cs, Sennheiser/Massdrop HD6xx, HiFiMan / Massdrop HE4xx, Monoprice BT-300ANC, Stax L700mk2 + D10 amp, 1More Triple Driver Headphone, Koss KPH30i


----------



## tgx78

I hope you are more organized than me.


----------



## seanwee

Mouseman said:


> I just got my ZAX today, and I'm very impressed by the coherence across all frequencies and the overall SQ. They're also more comfortable than my beloved ZSXs. They've got a great IEM on their hands here, and so far I'm very happy. I'll post more impressions after I get some hours on them.


Detailed ZSX vs ZAX comparison please!


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 23, 2020)

seanwee said:


> Detailed ZSX vs ZAX comparison please!


ZAX vs ZSX:
Bass: ZSX has more mid bass quantity. Both hits pretty hard tho on kick drum, but the ZSX has a little bit more oomph from the midbass whereas the ZAX is tighter. Sub bass is about the same.
Mid/vocal: ZAX is more forward in the vocal. Both has the same characteristic KZ's mid. It is easier to hear the detail on the ZAX.
Treble: ZAX sounds more open and airy than the ZSX. I thought ZSX sounds open and airy but the ZAX takes it to another level. Cymbals has a longer sssss sound on the ZAX.
A definite upgrade from the ZSX imho.
I am listening to Blue Man Group "How to be a Megastar Live" with ZAX on one side and ZSX on the other side and the difference in openness is quite apparent. Some background sounds is easier to distinguish with the ZAX. It just sounds clearer imho.


----------



## voicemaster

Just got another trn bt20s pro delivered today.


----------



## Mouseman

voicemaster said:


> Just got another trn bt20s pro delivered today.


I think that's going to be my next purchase, but I'm holding off for the 11.11 sale with hopes the discount will be good. So you are using the "2 pin" adapters for the KZs? The listing isn't terribly clear that they're QDC/KZ type.


----------



## DynamicEars (Sep 23, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Just got another trn bt20s pro delivered today.



what is the purpose of attaching white sticker blocks on the BT20s pro?

nvm 3 seconds later i think you want to label them so you wont mischarge/misplace with your another BT20s Pro unit / case


----------



## Wgibson

Regarding organization, this was a quick cardboard mock up, but does the trick so it stays. In theory I will make a similar rack out of wood. Just slots leading to a larger hole.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> what is the purpose of attaching white sticker blocks on the BT20s pro?
> 
> nvm 3 seconds later i think you want to label them so you wont mischarge/misplace with your another BT20s Pro unit / case


Actually I don't have to put sticker lol. I am just a sucker for glow in the dark sticker.   I already ordered the matte black version of ZAX. For now, I am using CCA C10 with it.


----------



## Slater (Sep 23, 2020)

Wgibson said:


> Regarding organization, this was a quick cardboard mock up, but does the trick so it stays. In theory I will make a similar rack out of wood. Just slots leading to a larger hole.



You could clean that up and make it look really nice by running each wire into a tube. If you go to a sporting goods store, you can buy black plastic tubes that go down inside of golf bags. They are thin and lightweight and really cheap (like a couple of bucks for a dozen tubes). They would look super nice all lined up in row. Most are black plastic.

So basically what you would do is drop the cable down into the tube and then slide the top of the cable into the notches you have.

You can mount the tubes so that they’re about 2-3” below the slotted wood piece. That will give you room to thread the cable down into the tube.

I can draw a picture of what I’m describing if it’s not clear.


----------



## Wgibson

My quick take on ZAX vs ZSX - I am treble sensitive and the ZSX is just too much, habe to use it with those ostry filter tips. ZAX still has all the detail or more, more spacious, but the treble doesn't bother me (inverted starline tips.) Prefer C12 over the ZSX because the treble (to me) is more polite with the C12.


----------



## voicemaster

Wow you guys are so organize. For me, I just put the iem inside a box


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Wow you guys are so organize. For me, I just put the iem inside a box



I don’t recognize this one:


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 23, 2020)

Slater said:


> I don’t recognize this one:


1964Ears V8
It cost me almost $1000 for 8 drivers IEM back then. It sounds great, but I tell you, the KZ right now is much better sounding than this for like 1/10th of the price. Oh and you want to complain about KZ cable? This $1000 IEM came with detachable cable that is as thin as those black and red cheapo speaker cable.


----------



## chinmie

Freetrademan said:


> Well here's most of them. There are plenty more that I didn't record.
> Sony MDR-EX70, JVC HA-FX66, Panasonic RP-TCM125w, Panasonic IEM, Panasonic ErgoFit RP-HJE120-g, V-Moda Vibe, V-Moda IEM, Creative Labs E-630, Altec-Lansing IEM, Ultimate Ears MetroFi 150v , Apple earbuds, Klipsch Image S4i, Shure E2C, Shure SE110, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, Monoprice 8320 IEM, Monoprice 12238 IEM, Brainwavz Delta IEM, Roku IEM, Mrice E300, Philips SHE3595 IEM, Sony XBA-H1 IEM, JVC HAFX5R, JVC HAFX8W, FiiO EX-1, Joyroom E103 , Superlux HD381F , Rock Zircon, SWING IE800 , DZAT DF-10, KZ ATE, KZ EDR2 , UiiSii HM7, Xiaomi Piston Colorful , Tennmak Pro, QKZ W1 , QKZ V1, VE Monk+, 1MORE Triple Driver, VIVO XE800, AKG/Samsung IEM , KZ ATR, KZ ZS3, KZ ZST, KZ ED12, KZ ES3, KZ ZS5, KZ ZS5 + wireless, KZ ZS6, KZ ZS6+wireless, KZ ZS10, KZ ES4, KZ ES4, KZ ZSN, KZ ZSN Pro, TRN V80, **** EN900, Monoprice True Wireless, Samsung Galaxy Buds, JBL Endurance Peak (wireless), Tin T2 Pro, KZ ZAX





Freetrademan said:


> While I'm at it, I might as well rattle off my headphones, too:
> Koss A130, Sennheiser HD520-ii, Sennheiser HD598, Sennheiser HD518, Shure SRH840, Monoprice 8323, Sennheiser HD202, Grado SR80e, Sennheiser HD600, Bang & Olufsen H6, OPPO PM-3, Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7, Sennheiser Momentum On-Ear, Philips Fidelio L2, Philips Fidelio X2, Koss PortaPro, Koss/Massdrop PortaPro X, Monoprice PHP1169, Monolith M1060 Planar, Sennheiser HD598cs, Sennheiser/Massdrop HD6xx, HiFiMan / Massdrop HE4xx, Monoprice BT-300ANC, Stax L700mk2 + D10 amp, 1More Triple Driver Headphone, Koss KPH30i



might i suggest that you put this list on your "about" page in your account details, so other members can see it also. for me personally it really helps if members here do this


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Wow you guys are so organize. For me, I just put the iem inside a box





same, but in a slightly more organized fashion  

i think I'm gonna need another box though


----------



## JazzVinyl

Freetrademan said:


> I just got the ZAX and I am mightily impressed. I had been considering the Tin P1, but after listening to the ZAX, I can't imagine the P1 being better. I should say that I also bought the Tin T2 Pro and hated it (something about the treble), so maybe Tin's tuning isn't for me. What do you think of the ZAX vs the P1?



I am listening to the P1's now via a fully balanced home desktop amp that has lots of power.  That is the thing with the P1's they take more power than most portables offer - to sound good.

The ZAX are very easy to drive...quite the opposite.

The Tin P1's with their single crossover-less Planar driver is on a *very different level* than the ZAX for detail retrieval. Cost quite a bit more too, so they better sound good  

Saw today in the P1 thread that photos of the Tin P2 have been seen on several social media sites and that the release should happen soon-ish.  If you were interested in the P1's...I would hold off and see what the P2's bring.  Maybe they will be easier to drive?  Have a Dynamic driver, too, for sub bass?


----------



## JazzVinyl

Freetrademan said:


> Well here's most of them. There are plenty more that I didn't record.
> Sony MDR-EX70, JVC HA-FX66, Panasonic RP-TCM125w, Panasonic IEM, Panasonic ErgoFit RP-HJE120-g, V-Moda Vibe, V-Moda IEM, Creative Labs E-630, Altec-Lansing IEM, Ultimate Ears MetroFi 150v , Apple earbuds, Klipsch Image S4i, Shure E2C, Shure SE110, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, Monoprice 8320 IEM, Monoprice 12238 IEM, Brainwavz Delta IEM, Roku IEM, Mrice E300, Philips SHE3595 IEM, Sony XBA-H1 IEM, JVC HAFX5R, JVC HAFX8W, FiiO EX-1, Joyroom E103 , Superlux HD381F , Rock Zircon, SWING IE800 , DZAT DF-10, KZ ATE, KZ EDR2 , UiiSii HM7, Xiaomi Piston Colorful , Tennmak Pro, QKZ W1 , QKZ V1, VE Monk+, 1MORE Triple Driver, VIVO XE800, AKG/Samsung IEM , KZ ATR, KZ ZS3, KZ ZST, KZ ED12, KZ ES3, KZ ZS5, KZ ZS5 + wireless, KZ ZS6, KZ ZS6+wireless, KZ ZS10, KZ ES4, KZ ES4, KZ ZSN, KZ ZSN Pro, TRN V80, **** EN900, Monoprice True Wireless, Samsung Galaxy Buds, JBL Endurance Peak (wireless), Tin T2 Pro, KZ ZAX



Very nice!!  I had wondered if you had ever run across the low cost Koss KSC75's?   In a little bit better head band simple Kramer Mods...they are still ridiculously good, imo.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Wgibson said:


> Regarding organization, this was a quick cardboard mock up, but does the trick so it stays. In theory I will make a similar rack out of wood. Just slots leading to a larger hole.



Two thumbs up!  Like it!!


----------



## Wgibson

JazzVinyl said:


> Two thumbs up!  Like it!!



Thanks. For 20 minutes with a sharpie, tape measure, drill, and angle grinder, it works for me. The cardboard "angle iron" was from some large rectangular appliance packaging I think. File it under "reasons to justify keeping junk in the garage."


----------



## Freetrademan

JazzVinyl said:


> Very nice!!  I had wondered if you had ever run across the low cost Koss KSC75's?   In a little bit better head band simple Kramer Mods...they are still ridiculously good, imo.


I'm sure the KSC75 is quite good for the price. Koss is like that. I'm a long-time fan. 
I will say that the Koss KPH30i is amazing.


----------



## Luis1316

Slater said:


> I don’t recognize this one:


Literally a lost old relic that somehow has ended up into a kid's toy box.


----------



## JazzVinyl

I have let the ZAX run in, for 3 days...

Listening now...with a couple of very minor EQ tweaks - getting really enjoyable SQ.

Someone earlier complained of a "metallic treble"...I get maybe just a very tiny hint of that somewhere up there in treble land.  But it is not distracting to the overall enjoyment.  
I do think the run-in hours have helped to bring forward the sub 'ba-boom' to the bass notes


----------



## TheVortex (Sep 24, 2020)

Not a bad offering from KZ but I prefer the smoother presentation from the CCA CA16.

ZAX is much easier to power than the CA16 as well considering the driver count.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Freetrademan said:


> I'm sure the KSC75 is quite good for the price. Koss is like that. I'm a long-time fan.
> I will say that the Koss KPH30i is amazing.


KOSS makes amazing earphones and headphones. The Plug iem is also incredible. I wish people would compare their KZ's to a KOSS and see what they think, not compare a KZ to a KZ.


----------



## Sebulr

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KOSS makes amazing earphones and headphones. The Plug iem is also incredible. I wish people would compare their KZ's to a KOSS and see what they think, not compare a KZ to a KZ.


I used to have Koss plug, back in the day, I didn't know they still made them. I must have bought them over ten years ago. Its that long I can't remember what they sounded like, all I remember is put the foam in the "wrong way round" fat end first into my ear. I have massive ear holes.


----------



## citral23 (Sep 24, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> Always love when folks can't let things go and hold every word you've previously said against you, no matter how inconsequential it really is... Feels like Facebook to me
> 
> He's right, I'm just some random guy, I never claimed to be any sort of expert. I too read others' reviews, try to pick out what is effective about their style, what makes sense to me, and then try my hand at something like that. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. It's not like anybody is paying me to do this, or that my life depends on it.



Don't worry nothing personal, just pointing out that going all lyrical in an iem "description" using strange concepts like giving the iem the superpower to have concerns about what I hear, then going all "nobody should listen to an iem on youtube" really isn't the best approach to make me want believe you.

You could just let those who want to have a listen do so, and reckon that while being imperfect by nature there's an effort that went into the showcasing, that is for sure of some use to quite a few people out there. Even if it contradicts what you hear.

Generally speaking, trying to diminish other's work never makes yours more relevant, and even tends to be a turn off 

So just be cool, nobody's forced to listen to zpolt's comparisons, it's nice to be able to for those who care.


----------



## Freetrademan

LaughMoreDaily said:


> KOSS makes amazing earphones and headphones. The Plug iem is also incredible. I wish people would compare their KZ's to a KOSS and see what they think, not compare a KZ to a KZ.


I used to have the Koss Plug. Not good.


----------



## Freetrademan

JazzVinyl said:


> I am listening to the P1's now via a fully balanced home desktop amp that has lots of power.  That is the thing with the P1's they take more power than most portables offer - to sound good.
> 
> The ZAX are very easy to drive...quite the opposite.
> 
> ...


Just to be clear, when you say detail on the P1 is "on a *very different level" *than the ZAX, do you mean a LOWER or HIGHER level? To my ear, detail on the ZAX is comparable to my reference headphone, the Stax L700. Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but yeah.
Also, it sounds like you're saying the P1 lacks sub-bass and you hope their next try is better. True?


----------



## slex

TheVortex said:


> Not a bad offering from KZ but I prefer the smoother presentation from the CCA CA16.
> 
> ZAX is much easier to power than the CA16 as well considering the driver count.



Are the  CCA CA16 soundstage similar to ZAX which are vented?


----------



## chinmie

Sebulr said:


> all I remember is put the foam in the "wrong way round" fat end first into my ear. I have massive ear holes.



glad I'm not the only one. when i use foam tips on my IEMs, i almost always use them in reversed


----------



## JazzVinyl (Sep 24, 2020)

Freetrademan said:


> Just to be clear, when you say detail on the P1 is "on a *very different level" *than the ZAX, do you mean a LOWER or HIGHER level? To my ear, detail on the ZAX is comparable to my reference headphone, the Stax L700. Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but yeah.
> Also, it sounds like you're saying the P1 lacks sub-bass and you hope their next try is better. True?



I hear things (really tiny details) in the P1's much more clearly than in the ZAX, so yes I think they are more detail oriented.

The P1's have quick dry bass that is definitely lighter than what a dynamic driver delivers.  You must EQ to get a reasonable amount of bass.  They also have the disadvantage of needing a lot of power.

There is enough bass but they do not have that deep sub bass that many IEM's have.

I am not cutting the ZAX down.  I think they are a very nice sounding IEM, that happen to have an incredibly low price.  A true bargain.


----------



## alamnp

slex said:


> Are the  CCA CA16 soundstage similar to ZAX which are vented?



No... CA16 more laid back out of the box... I just got my ZAX today, very energetic, forward mid, metallic treble... 
Spinfit definitely not  recommended, it enhanced the treble... it hurts my ear.

I used Comply 600 ear tip, so far I am liking the sound profile. It soften the treble by ALOT. I am still debating if I like the forward mid or not. Bass decay very fast.

Out of the box with standard tip and cable, not liking the sound profile... another KZ terminator with tweaked bass and forward mid. 

ZAX might not be for everyone.


----------



## slex

alamnp said:


> No... CA16 more laid back out of the box... I just got my ZAX today, very energetic, forward mid, metallic treble...
> Spinfit definitely not  recommended, it enhanced the treble... it hurts my ear.
> 
> I used Comply 600 ear tip, so far I am liking the sound profile. It soften the treble by ALOT. I am still debating if I like the forward mid or not. Bass decay very fast.
> ...


OK, btw which spinfit you using?  So far I have tested AET 07 and Spinfit CP360 & CP145.  So far CP145 sound better then AET07 and stock. I have Spiral dot & Azla Xelastlec incoming, will test them.


----------



## voicemaster

slex said:


> OK, btw which spinfit you using?  So far I have tested AET 07 and Spinfit CP360 & CP145.  So far CP145 sound better then AET07 and stock. I have Spiral dot & Azla Xelastlec incoming, will test them.


I just received my Azla Xelastec today, but I ordered the Medium size and it is big unlike other Medium size eartips. When using the tip with ZAX, it makes the ZAX sit too far out from the ear. I got a good seal but it kind of dangling on my ear. My Blon BL03 fit better with the Xelastec because of short nozzle stem. I have ordered the Small size already. 
The material quality is very different than any other tips I've seen so far. It is quite tacky and stiff but it is comfortable.


----------



## slex

voicemaster said:


> I just received my Azla Xelastec today, but I ordered the Medium size and it is big unlike other Medium size eartips. When using the tip with ZAX, it makes the ZAX sit too far out from the ear. I got a good seal but it kind of dangling on my ear. My Blon BL03 fit better with the Xelastec because of short nozzle stem. I have ordered the Small size already.
> The material quality is very different than any other tips I've seen so far. It is quite tacky and stiff but it is comfortable.


ok noted. I have ordered Azla Xelastlec M size based on dimension similar to Spinfit CP145 which I comfortable with.

I also tested foam tips from Misodiko, dun liked it. Muffed the tight lows.


----------



## alamnp

slex said:


> OK, btw which spinfit you using?  So far I have tested AET 07 and Spinfit CP360 & CP145.  So far CP145 sound better then AET07 and stock. I have Spiral dot & Azla Xelastlec incoming, will test them.



CP100, CP500 surprisingly it is still a bit loose, CP240 without the insert. All of spinfit makes the treble so bright.
Then I tried Comply 600 tips and not sure why it soften the treble by ALOT and it makes the sound profile enjoyable; however the mid becomes more pronounced and distinct, probably due to rolled off treble as a result of Comply tip.


----------



## axhng (Sep 25, 2020)

another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html


----------



## TheVortex

slex said:


> Are the  CCA CA16 soundstage similar to ZAX which are vented?



They are not and the CA16 sounds quite different. These are not like the C12 and ZSX which are not that different from each other.


----------



## TheVortex

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html



That's a ambitious release but the naming system is all over the place lol


----------



## rggz

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html



The faceplate's design looks like Patrick from Spongebob wanting a hug.


----------



## axhng

TheVortex said:


> That's a ambitious release but the naming system is all over the place lol



Indeed. They moved away from the number of drivers naming scheme for their wired stuff, so instead of AS20, it's ASX. For TWS it used to be sequential? T1, S1, S2, Z1. But then now they are using "number of drivers" in their new TWS naming.

KZ SA08 listing is up too. no mention of battery life/specs at all as of this post.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001506554085.html


----------



## PhonoPhi

Also KZ ASF, 10 BAs:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...h&spm=a2g0n.store_home.slider_6000168517523.0

KZ is on the move!


----------



## astermk

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html


The driver setup doesn't interest me as much as the downright GORGEOUS design. These really look great.


----------



## baskingshark

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html





PhonoPhi said:


> Also KZ ASF, 10 BAs:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...h&spm=a2g0n.store_home.slider_6000168517523.0
> 
> KZ is on the move!



Seems KZ are back to their circa early 2019 bad behaviour of spamming weekly releases, which were mostly sidegrades or marginal upgrades. Will wait for reviews though, don't wanna be a beta tester for them. Unless the pokemon "gotta catch them all" collector inside gets the better of us.

The $100 USD one (KZ ASX) is quite ambitious to say the least, their last AS16 above $100 didn't do too well when going head to head with the $100 big boys, so let's see what KZ can do with the ASX.

Ya and their naming convention is super confusing. They might get more sales if they come up with some english names like Moondrop does.


----------



## unifutomaki

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html



What a gorgeous design. 100 USD significantly undercuts the TRN BA8 but it's still a 100 USD for a KZ, so I do hope they've learnt from the AS16.


----------



## Nimweth

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html


Ah! So KZ beat CCA to the 20 BA IEM. Not long now before we see the mythical C20!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 25, 2020)

astermk said:


> The driver setup doesn't interest me as much as the downright GORGEOUS design. These really look great.


For those more into the design rather than the driver count is new KZ ASF 
More vivid masonic design of ASF looks cooler to me than ASX. Difficult to interpret what "F" is stands for though 

I am all into the driver count (KZ consistently delivered along "more is better" in their IEMs), so I am going to get ASX.

I promised myself that ZAX will be my last IEM (except CCA C18 or more, of course, I am not making unrealistic promises to myself), well I will likely get CCA one as well, unless it will be totally similar or totally dull 

P S. I have to add that AS16 is one of my favorite IEMs.
With one BA bass driver, bass of ASX won't likely be much different to AS16, at least in quantity.


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> For those more into the design rather than the driver count is new KZ ASF
> More vivid masonic design of ASF looks cooler to me than ASX. Difficult to interpret what "F" is stands for though
> 
> I am all into the driver count (KZ consistently delivered along "more is better" in their IEMs), so I am going to get ASX.
> ...


The AS part seems to indicate an all BA design but the F and X are confusing.


----------



## unifutomaki

Nimweth said:


> The AS part seems to indicate an all BA design but the F and X are confusing.



F for five drivers per side and Roman numeral X for 10 drivers per side I suppose? Though they could have just as easily named it the ASV...


----------



## Nimweth (Sep 25, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> For those more into the design rather than the driver count is new KZ ASF
> More vivid masonic design of ASF looks cooler to me than ASX. Difficult to interpret what "F" is stands for though
> 
> I am all into the driver count (KZ consistently delivered along "more is better" in their IEMs), so I am going to get ASX.
> ...


----------



## chinmie

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html



that's a nice design indeed.. but why it reminds me of the Freemasonry symbol


----------



## r31ya

Freetrademan said:


> Just to be clear, when you say detail on the P1 is "on a *very different level" *than the ZAX, do you mean a LOWER or HIGHER level? To my ear, detail on the ZAX is comparable to my reference headphone, the Stax L700. Yeah, that sounds ridiculous, but yeah.
> Also, it sounds like you're saying the P1 lacks sub-bass and you hope their next try is better. True?



Mate, P1 is *Thrice *the price of KZ ZAX, from Tin-Audio, and basically won't run good on your phone as in it need DAP or AMP to run. So in some of its aspect it's better than KZ ZAX? Of course

KZ is great but yeah in the realm of $100+ there are plenty IEM that budget KZ still unable to reach. I have TFZ King Pro which introduce me to bass texture details, its something that turn me off about ZS10 Pro, it have the punch but barely any texture details. ZS10 pro is still great for the price but yeah, some IEM that is priced twice of its price might have aspect that it still couldn't reach.


----------



## ricemanhk

For those who have the BT20s regular or pro, does it have aptx tws or just aptx? Any lag? Is the pro model worth it over the regular? Seems the only difference is the charging case, which admittedly is nice, but it's roughly double in price on taobao.


----------



## voicemaster

ricemanhk said:


> For those who have the BT20s regular or pro, does it have aptx tws or just aptx? Any lag? Is the pro model worth it over the regular? Seems the only difference is the charging case, which admittedly is nice, but it's roughly double in price on taobao.


What is aptx tws? 
Lag? Only if you play FPS games. For watching youtube, netflix, etc it is very little to no lag (wireless will always have a bit of delay).
The advantages to get the pro model:
1. Charging case. 
2. Auto on/off just like a regular tws. With the old model, you have to press and hold the button to turn them on/off. This is what makes a tws a tws imho.
3. Better build quality, more solid body.
4. More elastic earhook
5. Swappable earhook. If you have several IEMs that you like, you don't have to keep weakening the 2 pin/mmcx port on the IEM itself. 
6. Better mic placement. I tried calling my wife using the pro and it sounds great. I could whisper and she still able to hear me which is quite a surprise. I haven't tried calling in noisy environment yet.


----------



## moisespr123

Got the ZAX yesterday. To me, it sounds very similar to the Hidizs MS4, but more open, and better-controlled sound. The MS4 may have too much bass sometimes. The ZAX has the right amount of sound across the frequencies. There is no metallic sound on these as they are on the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX. Vocals are very clear (Bit clearer than the Hidizs MS4). For me, it seems KZ finally made my signature sound that previously the Hidizs MS4 offered to my ears. The detail is very good and the sound stage is open but not too much (I really don't like super wide soundstage. The ZSX sounded too wide to me).


----------



## voicemaster

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html


Lol damn. They just released an 8 drivers per side ZAX and they already come up with a 10 drivers per side ASX already  .
The design is similar to CCA CA16 (body style), but they went cheap on it with the plastic faceplate while this ASX have CNC aluminum face plate


----------



## voicemaster

TheVortex said:


> That's a ambitious release but the naming system is all over the place lol


As far as I know, KZ all BA driver IEM always start with an "A"? Like AS10 for 5 drivers per side all BA IEM. While the hybrid always with the "Z" like ZSN, ZS7, and so on. I could be wrong tho. I mean they have released so many IEMs already, probably the only company that have so many different models.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> That's a ambitious release but the naming system is all over the place lol



Well, if I’m following their current naming convention, ASX is the X version of the AS10.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Well, if I’m following their current naming convention, ASX is the X version of the AS10.


X is just for crossing out all previous versions of AS - the terminator of all the terminators of everything 

KZ also had BA10 in all BAs, so BAX is imminent (tough all-metal shell)


----------



## Slater

You guys are forgetting one major difference with both of these new KZ models - NO 30095 BAs! So hopefully no more “metallic/steely treble” that some people complain about.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> As far as I know, KZ all BA driver IEM always start with an "A"?



What about BA10 aka Ironman?


----------



## Howell29

Slater said:


> You guys are forgetting one major difference with both of these new KZ models - NO 30095 BAs! So hopefully no more “metallic/steely treble” that some people complain about.



Now tuning for the international market ehhh hehe

Guess Chi-fi corps could provide a 'local tuning' & 'international tuning' versions of their product models instead of forcing hot upper mids hehe. Kidding aside, they're now selling like hotcakes locally thanks to the advent of e-commerce here so it's not a matter of which market is bigger anymore


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> What about BA10 aka Ironman?


That's why I said I might be wrong lol. Then it is inevitable that we will see BAX?? 12 drivers per side KZ??


----------



## voicemaster

So yeah I just ordered the ASX, but since it is from AE, its gonna take awhile to get here.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> X is just for crossing out all previous versions of AS - the terminator of all the terminators of everything
> 
> KZ also had BA10 in all BAs, so BAX is imminent (tough all-metal shell)



I wonder if they will make a ZSXX, for a Terminator Terminator?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> You guys are forgetting one major difference with both of these new KZ models - NO 30095 BAs! So hopefully no more “metallic/steely treble” that some people complain about.


AS16 had no 30095.
Compared to C16 - AS16 has more treble (and I really like AS16), so the filters and tuning are also a factor; plus "new drivers" can be different - they are promising "extended highs" (in my simple English rendering of their marketing eloquence).


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> I wonder if they will make a ZSXX, for a Terminator Terminator?


I hope they won't start using four-letter words


----------



## PhonoPhi

voicemaster said:


> So yeah I just ordered the ASX, but since it is from AE, its gonna take awhile to get here.


It will take even more, since the orders will be shipped only around October 15.


----------



## DynamicEars

so many KZ while tempted to buy ZAX. Hmmm.. They did it again..


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> AS16 had no 30095.
> Compared to C16 - AS16 has more treble (and I really like AS16), so the filters and tuning are also a factor; plus "new drivers" can be different - they are promising "extended highs" (in my simple English rendering of their marketing eloquence).



i will probably like it... not sure KZ like to put 30095 right at the nozzle?

ZAX at times... especially KPOP female singer... very metallic and it shrills hurting my ear.


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> i will probably like it... not sure KZ like to put 30095 right at the nozzle?
> 
> ZAX at times... especially KPOP female singer... very metallic and it shrills hurting my ear.


Which Kpop singer? I listen to MAMAMOO, IU and Blackpink and so on and don't find any shrill or harshness at all.


----------



## unifutomaki

alamnp said:


> i will probably like it... not sure KZ like to put 30095 right at the nozzle?
> 
> ZAX at times... especially KPOP female singer... very metallic and it shrills hurting my ear.



Maybe you're more sensitive to highs? I personally found the ZAX to be quite refined and controlled for J-Pop and they too like their high pitched female vocalists


----------



## alamnp (Sep 25, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Which Kpop singer? I listen to MAMAMOO, IU and Blackpink and so on and don't find any shrill or harshness at all.



I like Mamamoo, their voices mostly not soprano for sure.
But for all female KPOP/JPOP with soprano sound profile... it hurts my ear with ZAX. 

Rothy
Red Velvet (OMG, I used to enjoy it... they shrills)
all my Taeyeon records...
Bananalemon (JPOP)
Ballistik Boyz (JPOP) definitely not for ZAX

Also I love to listen to LANY (US), he is a great singer, but not sure anymore... too metallic for me now with ZAX

Not sure to me ZAX treble is somewhere ZS10 PRO and ZSX Terminator, I can't really grasp it... Comply 600 did soften it by MUCH, but still on certain song, it hurts my ear.

I can't listen through ZAX with its included tip or spinfit.


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> Rothy
> Red Velvet (OMG, I used to enjoy it... they shrills)
> all my Taeyeon records...
> Bananalemon (JPOP)
> ...


I listen to Red Velvet and couldn't find any shrill at all lol. Their voice actually quite bassy lol. I have some songs from Taeyeon also (mostly ballad) and no shrill either. You may get a lemon ZAX.


----------



## alamnp

unifutomaki said:


> Maybe you're more sensitive to highs? I personally found the ZAX to be quite refined and controlled for J-Pop and they too like their high pitched female vocalists



I think so, I used to listen to ZS10 PRO, ZSX Terminator (mostly), and ZS6 (commute). But after the lockdown, got my CA16, I almost everyday listened through CA16.

Maybe I got used to CA16 sound profile, and become treble sensitive.


----------



## ricemanhk

voicemaster said:


> What is aptx tws?
> Lag? Only if you play FPS games. For watching youtube, netflix, etc it is very little to no lag (wireless will always have a bit of delay).
> The advantages to get the pro model:
> 1. Charging case.
> ...



Thanks! Will try to get the pro one during 11/11

Aptx is the high bitrate but it goes to one side who then passes the data to the other. On your phone you will only see 1 paired BT either L or R. This introduces a bit more lag, and also potentially more interference as one side will have to handle both receiving and sending data

Aptx tws is new codec where the phone will send data to both L and R simultaneously which cuts down on lag significantly. You will see both sides paired to your phone and there will be an aptx tws icon next to it if connected that way


----------



## alamnp (Sep 25, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> I listen to Red Velvet and couldn't find any shrill at all lol. Their voice actually quite bassy lol. I have some songs from Taeyeon also (mostly ballad) and no shrill either. You may get a lemon ZAX.



Damn, should I return it? Or let it burn for awhile?

how do I return Aliexpress purchase? damn... tell them I got a lemon?

This ZAX is very bright to me, contrary to you guys impression


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> Damn, should I return it? Or let it burn for awhile?
> 
> how do I return Aliexpress purchase? damn... tell them I got a lemon?
> 
> This ZAX is very bright to me, contrary to you guys impression


This is the female voice that is soft, but quite thin and "pitchy" I could find. Still not shrill enough tho.


----------



## voicemaster

ricemanhk said:


> Thanks! Will try to get the pro one during 11/11
> 
> Aptx is the high bitrate but it goes to one side who then passes the data to the other. On your phone you will only see 1 paired BT either L or R. This introduces a bit more lag, and also potentially more interference as one side will have to handle both receiving and sending data
> 
> Aptx tws is new codec where the phone will send data to both L and R simultaneously which cuts down on lag significantly. You will see both sides paired to your phone and there will be an aptx tws icon next to it if connected that way


It is aptx tws then. I just tested it by putting each side 1 by 1 back into the case (turning off), the side that was on my ear will have a prompt that say disconnected, then reconnected back. Same for either side. And if you take the other side that was turned off, it will turned on and paired up with the side that was already connected to the source. Just like Samsung galaxy buds I think tho not as seamless (still disconnect and reconnect right away but it is much much faster than the old model where you need to press and hold to turn on/off and sometimes it doesn't want to paired up.


----------



## voicemaster

ricemanhk said:


> Thanks! Will try to get the pro one during 11/11
> 
> Aptx is the high bitrate but it goes to one side who then passes the data to the other. On your phone you will only see 1 paired BT either L or R. This introduces a bit more lag, and also potentially more interference as one side will have to handle both receiving and sending data
> 
> Aptx tws is new codec where the phone will send data to both L and R simultaneously which cuts down on lag significantly. You will see both sides paired to your phone and there will be an aptx tws icon next to it if connected that way


I forgot to mention that the pro has more output per noise than the old version. In my samsung galaxy s20+, I listen with lower than 50% volume and it is plenty loud for me. I usually do 50%+.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> This is the female voice that is soft, but quite thin and "pitchy" I could find. Still not shrill enough tho.




OMG... THE SHRILL IS REAL!!!, yep... definitely needs COMPLY foam tips


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> OMG... THE SHRILL IS REAL!!!, yep... definitely needs COMPLY foam tips


Definitely a lemon or your ears are way too sensitive to high freq.


----------



## baskingshark

alamnp said:


> Damn, should I return it? Or let it burn for awhile?
> 
> how do I return Aliexpress purchase? damn... tell them I got a lemon?
> 
> This ZAX is very bright to me, contrary to you guys impression



Treble sensitivity IMHO is not so black and white though. Cause of a few factors:
1) *Hearing health* - due to aging, work/leisure exposure. Generally with accumulative hearing damage or aging, the higher frequencies are the first to go.
2) *Different sources used* - warm vs bright vs neutral source.
3) *Different ear tips used* - foams tend to lower treble, same with narrow bore silicone tips. Wide bore silicone ones increase treble for me.
4) *Different volume played at *(Fletcher Munson Curve) - generally at higher volumes the sound is perceived to be more V shaped (boosted treble/bass), whereas at lower volumes it is perceived to be more U shaped.
5) *Different treble preferences*  - some are default trebleheads, some are default treble sensitive
6)* Controversial area of cables *- big can of worms, but some profess that copper cables tame treble whereas silver ones increase treble/clarity. YMMV if u are a cable skeptic or believer.
7) *Different music genres* - some music types tend to emphasize treble frequencies more and the voices may be more sibilant in female predominant vocals.

For example the Moondrop SSR has quite polarizing opinions on the 3 kHz area, some love it, some hate it, it is probably a combination of the above factors (I personally think the volume one uses the Moondrop SSR is the biggest factor, as not many reviewers or consumers mention what volumes they are using it at).

I don't have the ZAX, but for a start if u find it too bright, u can try foam tips, a warmer source or playing it at lower volumes (Fletcher Munson curve).


----------



## DynamicEars

Just my 2 cents, dont use spinfit as they tend to make trebles brighter or more emphasize. Try wide bore eartips.
I don't have ZAX either but the ZSX is safe on trebles.

Is there any other decent FR graph of ZAX aside from BGGAR's?


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> Just my 2 cents, dont use spinfit as they tend to make trebles brighter or more emphasize. Try wide bore eartips.
> I don't have ZAX either but the ZSX is safe on trebles.
> 
> Is there any other decent FR graph of ZAX aside from BGGAR's?



I agree; I hate SpinFits.

I’ve yet to find a single earphone that I was happy with the sound change. The fit, sure. But I’d rather have worse fit and better sound than better fit and worse sound.

I know some people love them, but I am not one of them.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> I agree; I hate SpinFits.
> 
> I’ve yet to find a single earphone that I was happy with the sound change. The fit, sure. But I’d rather have worse fit and better sound than better fit and worse sound.
> 
> I know some people love them, but I am not one of them.


Which is why I prefer squishy memory foam tips. I've got 3 sets of Spinfit CP145 (2 pairs in medium and 1 set in large) and I haven't liked them on any of my iems. Those Spinfits cost me almost as much as my new KZ ZS10 PRO. I'll stick with my Newbee foams for my iems and if there's something I think can be improved with the SQ; I'll just add a bit of EQ with my ES100 or on my UAAP music app. The foamies conform to my ears great and I don't get the ear canal sweatyness that all silicones have given me.


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> I agree; I hate SpinFits.
> 
> I’ve yet to find a single earphone that I was happy with the sound change. The fit, sure. But I’d rather have worse fit and better sound than better fit and worse sound.
> 
> I know some people love them, but I am not one of them.



They have great type though, the CP360 which is actually made for tws but can be use on wired IEMs fit is great, with the material is more grippy, so its like between standard silicone and xelastec in terms of grippiness level.

Trebles still a bit boosted, so for trebles safe IEMs they are great.

Im not against spinfit just one of my tips collections to go along with different IEMs characteristics, usually pair well with bass heavy or dark IEMs with roll off or scooped trebles.


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> They have great type though, the CP360 which is actually made for tws but can be use on wired IEMs fit is great, with the material is more grippy, so its like between standard silicone and xelastec in terms of grippiness level.
> 
> Trebles still a bit boosted, so for trebles safe IEMs they are great.
> 
> Im not against spinfit just one of my tips collections to go along with different IEMs characteristics, usually pair well with bass heavy or dark IEMs with roll off or scooped trebles.



Good point, I admit that I haven’t tried all of the different SpinFit models. I should clarity my statement in that I hate the Spinfits *that I own*. I have not tried the many other sizes and models available, so it’s possible that I could love one of the other ones


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> I agree; I hate SpinFits.
> 
> I’ve yet to find a single earphone that I was happy with the sound change. The fit, sure. But I’d rather have worse fit and better sound than better fit and worse sound.
> 
> I know some people love them, but I am not one of them.





DynamicEars said:


> They have great type though, the CP360 which is actually made for tws but can be use on wired IEMs fit is great, with the material is more grippy, so its like between standard silicone and xelastec in terms of grippiness level.
> 
> Trebles still a bit boosted, so for trebles safe IEMs they are great.
> 
> Im not against spinfit just one of my tips collections to go along with different IEMs characteristics, usually pair well with bass heavy or dark IEMs with roll off or scooped trebles.



i don't like the CP100 as it seems to make the treble more brittle and harsher, also don't like the twinblades because of the fit, so i was hesitant to try their other types. 

but i recently decided to try the CP145 and CP360 and quite like them both. the CP360 while also make the whole sound a bit lighter and brighter, but Idoing it in a more even fashion and doesn't mess with making sharp peaks in the treble. 
the CP145 is good and deeper fitting, but doesn't choke the sound like the CP100. it also colours the sound less than the other spinfits that I've tried


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Good point, I admit that I haven’t tried all of the different SpinFit models. I should clarity my statement in that I hate the Spinfits *that I own*. I have not tried the many other sizes and models available, so it’s possible that I could love one of the other ones


Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Thing is: I'm not willing to chomp up the $ it would require to buy all these different models. Another thing about silicones that I don't like is that you gotta know what size you take. With foams, you just gotta squish em and they expand in your ears to get a good seal. Medium foams are ok for my ears but large is even better; which it what I use. And my ears don't get sweaty either.


----------



## alamnp

baskingshark said:


> Treble sensitivity IMHO is not so black and white though. Cause of a few factors:
> 1) *Hearing health* - due to aging, work/leisure exposure. Generally with accumulative hearing damage or aging, the higher frequencies are the first to go.
> 2) *Different sources used* - warm vs bright vs neutral source.
> 3) *Different ear tips used* - foams tend to lower treble, same with narrow bore silicone tips. Wide bore silicone ones increase treble for me.
> ...



Thanks, I did use the Comply 600 tips... will go back to Copper cable to damp the treble more... i have the 16 core Silver cable.


----------



## seanwee

baskingshark said:


> Treble sensitivity IMHO is not so black and white though. Cause of a few factors:
> 1) *Hearing health* - due to aging, work/leisure exposure. Generally with accumulative hearing damage or aging, the higher frequencies are the first to go.
> 2) *Different sources used* - warm vs bright vs neutral source.
> 3) *Different ear tips used* - foams tend to lower treble, same with narrow bore silicone tips. Wide bore silicone ones increase treble for me.
> ...


Don't forget brain burn in. I've known several people with HUGELY distorted perceptions of what a good iem sounds like.

I lent them a pair of more neutral iems to reset their perception and after a week of that they couldn't believe they used to like their previous pair.


----------



## alamnp

seanwee said:


> Don't forget brain burn in. I've known several people with HUGELY distorted perceptions of what a good iem sounds like.
> 
> I lent them a pair of more neutral iems to reset their perception and after a week of that they couldn't believe they used to like their previous pair.



wow, this sounds just like me after CA16 experience


----------



## astermk

seanwee said:


> Don't forget brain burn in. I've known several people with HUGELY distorted perceptions of what a good iem sounds like.
> 
> I lent them a pair of more neutral iems to reset their perception and after a week of that they couldn't believe they used to like their previous pair.


I find I can get used to (almost) any tuning with enough time. CA16 sounded boring coming from ZS10 Pro. A few days later, ZS10 Pro sounded like an overdone ear assault.


----------



## alamnp (Sep 26, 2020)

astermk said:


> I find I can get used to (almost) any tuning with enough time. CA16 sounded boring coming from ZS10 Pro. A few days later, ZS10 Pro sounded like an overdone ear assault.



agreed, went back to stock cable to ZAX... so weird, this is the first IEM that I have that a different cable copper vs silver made a huge difference in treble extension.

My ZAX now sounds perfect, copper stock cable, and Comply Foam 600 tips. 

Won't be buying any more IEMs for a long time, this CA16 and ZAX with current setup surprised me in many fronts.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Definitely a lemon or your ears are way too sensitive to high freq.



apparently not a lemon. ZAX is not supposed to be paired with silver cable, it really extend its treble. Spinfit tips worsened the sound profile. 

Sounds really nice now, different from CA16.

with current setup, stock copper cable and Comply 600 compared to my CA16

1. lively treble
2. very detailed and forward mids
3. faster bass decay vs CA16

ZAX this setup, is just like CA 16 with higher volume, minus the forward MID.

If you don't like forward MID, go to CA16.

this will be my while working IEM, while CA16 will be for everything else including before slumber sing along.


----------



## paulwasabii

PhonoPhi said:


> I hope they won't start using four-letter words



Or switch over to S. BL05S, V90S, why not a ZSXS. Or ZSX^2


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 26, 2020)

Wrong post!


----------



## JazzVinyl

alamnp said:


> apparently not a lemon. ZAX is not supposed to be paired with silver cable, it really extend its treble. Spinfit tips worsened the sound profile.
> 
> Sounds really nice now, different from CA16.
> 
> ...



Good job getting the cable and tips figured.   Enjoy your ZAX


----------



## r31ya

astermk said:


> I find I can get used to (almost) any tuning with enough time. CA16 sounded boring coming from ZS10 Pro. A few days later, ZS10 Pro sounded like an overdone ear assault.


I've used to have ZS5 then move on the more neutral ATH-E40, 
when i'm looking for a secondary IEM i tried ZS6 and goddamn, son. while ZS5 require burn in and it still fatiguing, ZS6 is freakin torture.

I then tried ZS7 and ZS10 Pro which are way better than that torturous ZS6. I also remember trying AS10 or AS6 i forgot, it's lacking in coherence so the multi BA is like loud noise playing against each other. Tough maybe both will sound better with better source (i was using dragonfly black, at the time which soundstage is not its strong point)


----------



## r31ya

JazzVinyl said:


> Good job getting the cable and tips figured.   Enjoy your ZAX


I''m in the market to buy another IEM, i'm trying to decide ZAX or CA16.

From what i read, i love CA16 but the housing is kinda lacking. ZAX is seems nice, but lacking in better term, it seems to be the more "KZ" version of CA16 with harsher treble (+ more forward mids)

Hows the male voice in KZ ZAX by the way? i read the mid is a bit dry (i understand wet mid thanks to Cayin DAP, but still trying to figure dry sounds like)
How its sound in these two song?

1. 

2.


----------



## seanwee

r31ya said:


> I've used to have ZS5 then move on the more neutral ATH-E40,
> when i'm looking for a secondary IEM i tried ZS6 and goddamn, son. while ZS5 require burn in and it still fatiguing, ZS6 is freakin torture.
> 
> I then tried ZS7 and ZS10 Pro which are way better than that torturous ZS6. I also remember trying AS10 or AS6 i forgot, it's lacking in coherence so the multi BA is like loud noise playing against each other. Tough maybe both will sound better with better source (i was using dragonfly black, at the time which soundstage is not its strong point)


The E40 is quite warm tho


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 27, 2020)

r31ya said:


> I''m in the market to buy another IEM, i'm trying to decide ZAX or CA16.
> 
> From what i read, i love CA16 but the housing is kinda lacking. ZAX is seems nice, but lacking in better term, it seems to be the more "KZ" version of CA16 with harsher treble (+ more forward mids)
> 
> ...



It sounds great. I don't know what you mean by dry, but KZ has always had their mid in the thin side where as if you ever tried Shure IEM, they had their mid thick. It depends on your preference really. The ZAX doesn't have harsh treble from my experience. I tried it with Skrillex - Bangarang and in some IEM, it can be quite piercing, but no harshness that I experienced so far. 


This is my favorite track to test for male voice.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 27, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> It sounds great. I don't know what you mean by dry, but KZ has always had their mid in the thin side where as if you ever tried Shure IEM, they had their mid thick. It depends on your preference really. The ZAX doesn't have harsh treble from my experience. I tried it with Skrillex - Bangarang and in some IEM, it can be quite piercing, but no harshness that I experienced so far.
> 
> 
> This is my favorite track to test for male voice.




Ah, if it can play bangarang without sounding harsh, it's great.
I really want to try it before buying it, but covid situation and all, i have to rely on internet reviews.


----------



## alamnp

r31ya said:


> I''m in the market to buy another IEM, i'm trying to decide ZAX or CA16.
> 
> From what i read, i love CA16 but the housing is kinda lacking. ZAX is seems nice, but lacking in better term, it seems to be the more "KZ" version of CA16 with harsher treble (+ more forward mids)
> 
> ...




I like these two songs better in my CA16. Out of the box, you don’t need to upgrade the cable, the silver cable makes the treble hurts my ear. I have not seen any IEM that would be that much different with cable change. You do have to invest in good foam tip, CA16 fit much better and much comfortable. If you are like me, you will have to find a good foam tips to tame the treble. Out of the box, with its stock tips, I can’t stand the treble, it is close to ZS10 pro with better and distinct mid. Initially, I am not sure if I am liking it or not, but after awhile I am okay with it.

I would still prefer CA16 for everyday use, however you need upgraded spinfit cp800 and silver cable to bring the optimum performance of CA16.


----------



## astermk

If anyone was interested in the ASX, you can get them for $78 and free shipping with the promo code and store coupons here: https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLssTFN

Which is a mad affordable price for 10BAs, but I wouldn't take the risk because KZ haven't proven themselves with  their flagship all-BA sets.


----------



## Nimweth

Looks like both ASX and ASF have no BAs in the nozzles. Good news, I think!


----------



## TheVortex

Nimweth said:


> Looks like both ASX and ASF have no BAs in the nozzles. Good news, I think!



True but when they start to dampen is when they should be taken seriously.


----------



## PhonoPhi

TheVortex said:


> True but when they start to dampen is when they should be taken seriously.


Oh, please, hopefully not.
One can always dampen (put filters, stuff some foam), but not un-dampen.


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> True but when they start to dampen is when they should be taken seriously.



They installed dampening filters on one of the sound tubes of the C16.


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> They installed dampening filters on one of the sound tubes of the C16.



I never tried that model.


----------



## voicemaster

The ZAX has BA on the nozzle right?


----------



## TheVortex

voicemaster said:


> The ZAX has BA on the nozzle right?



Correct and the CA16 does not.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> They installed dampening filters on one of the sound tubes of the C16.


Also in AS12.
For those talking about "thin KZ mids", for me C16 have one of the best thick mids for all-BAs.


----------



## JazzVinyl

voicemaster said:


> The ZAX has BA on the nozzle right?



Yeppers:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001353649300.html


----------



## voicemaster

And I don't see any problem with the ZAX having BA driver in the nozzle. I don’t have any other KZ that has the BA in the nozzle beside the ZAX so I don't know how bad it was before. If they can get the tuning right, like the ZAX, why not?


----------



## steviewonderbread

I am really looking forward to some ASX graphs...


----------



## TheVortex

steviewonderbread said:


> I am really looking forward to some ASX graphs...



Me to and it will either be good or bad lol

Also waiting to see if CCA will release something similar.


----------



## JazzVinyl

voicemaster said:


> And I don't see any problem with the ZAX having BA driver in the nozzle. I don’t have any other KZ that has the BA in the nozzle beside the ZAX so I don't know how bad it was before. If they can get the tuning right, like the ZAX, why not?



You just wanted to get everyone "all worked up"?


----------



## voicemaster

JazzVinyl said:


> You just wanted to get everyone "all worked up"?


No I am serious because I couldn't find any fault on the ZAX having BA driver on the nozzle. Maybe for people who is extremely sensitive to treble?


----------



## JazzVinyl

steviewonderbread said:


> I am really looking forward to some ASX graphs...



Steviewonderbread!  And your icon!!  Rolling on the floor!!  Hahahahaha!


----------



## JazzVinyl

voicemaster said:


> No I am serious because I couldn't find any fault on the ZAX having BA driver on the nozzle. Maybe for people who is extremely sensitive to treble?



I am not upset with the nozzle BA in the ZAX either...but I do catch a touch of the "metalic sounding" treble.  I have dual DD's that do not have it...

It's not horrible, but can be detected in some tracks.


----------



## voicemaster

JazzVinyl said:


> I am not upset with the nozzle BA in the ZAX either...but I do catch a touch of the "metalic sounding" treble.  I have dual DD's that do not have it...
> 
> It's not horrible, but can be detected in some tracks.


I think it is mostly due to the BA driver's sound characteristic than the placement of the BA itself. It could also because the nozzle is metal, the sound reflecting from it became a bit more metallic? From the pictures online, the ASX will have sound tubes to guide the sound from each BA groups just like my 1964ears and JHaudio Roxanne. I don't think I've ever seen KZ do sound tubing with theirs before. Hopefully they can get the tuning right with their first 10 BA drivers IEM.


----------



## Viber

Anyone seen details about the battery duration of the new KZ SA08 TWS?  
KZ hides this detail for some reason... will it last one hour or two? 


And also, dem ASX...


----------



## jant71 (Sep 27, 2020)

Viber said:


> Anyone seen details about the battery duration of the new KZ SA08 TWS?
> KZ hides this detail for some reason... will it last one hour or two?
> 
> 
> And also, dem ASX...


There ya go...




30mah batteries in each side. All you need to know. Usually 55mah these day so you are powering the multiple drivers with a 45% smaller capacity. Engage the lower latency mode that uses more power and lucky to get two hours.


----------



## JazzVinyl

voicemaster said:


> I think it is mostly due to the BA driver's sound characteristic than the placement of the BA itself. It could also because the nozzle is metal, the sound reflecting from it became a bit more metallic? From the pictures online, the ASX will have sound tubes to guide the sound from each BA groups just like my 1964ears and JHaudio Roxanne. I don't think I've ever seen KZ do sound tubing with theirs before. Hopefully they can get the tuning right with their first 10 BA drivers IEM.



You could definitely be right about all this.  I had a long session today with ZAX and noticed no metallic treble...so could be you hear what you expect to hear, too


----------



## Viber

jant71 said:


> There ya go...
> 
> 30mah batteries in each side. All you need to know. Usually 55mah these day so you are powering the multiple drivers with a 45% smaller capacity. Engage the lower latency mode that uses more power and lucky to get two hours.



Thanks for doing the math!
I think they said the new drivers are more efficient or something... It's so WEIRD to release the Z1,CCA CX10 and now this with the same battery problem!  

Just give me TWS ZSR with 5 hours battery KZ!


----------



## r31ya

As long as the case could give 20 hour worth of battery, i don't need big ass 5+ hour battery in the IEM. my listening session usually not that long (week end as exception)
However, i do need at least 3 hour worth of battery in the IEM. Anything less will be major annoyance.


----------



## chinmie

jant71 said:


> There ya go...
> 
> 30mah batteries in each side. All you need to know. Usually 55mah these day so you are powering the multiple drivers with a 45% smaller capacity. Engage the lower latency mode that uses more power and lucky to get two hours.



my bare minimum is 4 hours of continuous play, anything lower than that is a bit of a hassle..but the more important thing for me is a long standby/idle battery time of the unit, as i like to minimize the use of the case in daily scenario. most TWS that i keep can stand idle from the time i slept until morning when i wake up, and still maintain almost the same battery life, while some rare cases a few TWSs still burns battery even when idle.


----------



## axhng

jant71 said:


> There ya go...
> 
> 30mah batteries in each side. All you need to know. Usually 55mah these day so you are powering the multiple drivers with a 45% smaller capacity. Engage the lower latency mode that uses more power and lucky to get two hours.



That's pretty much the same as the KZ Z1 which only gave me 2 hours or so or use when brand new. Which I feel like I should probably mention this again, my KZ Z1 after about 4 months of use lasts only about 45 mins now. Batteries do degrade with usage, and it's a lot more drastic when it comes to TWS earbuds since they are in an almost fully charged state most of the time, and they are tiny, so they go through tons of cycles quickly. Not saying that the SA08 will be the same, but I would personally wait for reviews about battery life first.


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> As long as the case could give 20 hour worth of battery, i don't need big ass 5+ hour battery in the IEM. my listening session usually not that long (week end as exception)
> However, i do need at least 3 hour worth of battery in the IEM. Anything less will be major annoyance.



judge from batt capacity and no mentioned anything about batt / tech new announcement, i guess they are using similar batt /tech with older KZ TWS, that only last for 2.5 hours, barely 3 hours and decreasing with time. our friend @axhng 's z1 batt life is down to almost half an hour now after 3 months IIRC.
I won't buy any KZ TWS again yet, until they fix batt and tech issue (connection isnt cut off, but the connection strength is not as good as other TWS, crackles / artifacts if I move a bit far or just slight covered from source. And hissing too, and connection hiccups if batt run below 40% sometimes (not all the time)


----------



## r31ya

DynamicEars said:


> judge from batt capacity and no mentioned anything about batt / tech new announcement, i guess they are using similar batt /tech with older KZ TWS, that only last for 2.5 hours, barely 3 hours and decreasing with time. our friend @axhng 's z1 batt life is down to almost half an hour now after 3 months IIRC.
> I won't buy any KZ TWS again yet, until they fix batt and tech issue (connection isnt cut off, but the connection strength is not as good as other TWS, crackles / artifacts if I move a bit far or just slight covered from source. And hissing too, and connection hiccups if batt run below 40% sometimes (not all the time)



This is bad. 
One of the TWS golden standard, Sony WF-3, is 5+hours on-time. 

Surely had KZ tried, they could at least get 3+ hour.


----------



## Keputs

axhng said:


> another day, another new KZ. around 100USD
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001505340116.html


I just wanna go back to collecting stamps 😥


----------



## moondowner

DynamicEars said:


> judge from batt capacity and no mentioned anything about batt / tech new announcement, i guess they are using similar batt /tech with older KZ TWS, that only last for 2.5 hours, barely 3 hours and decreasing with time. our friend @axhng 's z1 batt life is down to almost half an hour now after 3 months IIRC.
> I won't buy any KZ TWS again yet, until they fix batt and tech issue (connection isnt cut off, but the connection strength is not as good as other TWS, crackles / artifacts if I move a bit far or just slight covered from source. And hissing too, and connection hiccups if batt run below 40% sometimes (not all the time)



To be honest when buying a new TWS, at least 5 hours playback on a single charge should be minimal. And there are plenty TWS sets under $50 that do 5+ hours. There are even some like the Alien Secret ‘Predator’ QCC010 that do 7hrs and are $25!


----------



## jant71

DynamicEars said:


> judge from batt capacity and no mentioned anything about batt / tech new announcement, i guess they are using similar batt /tech with older KZ TWS, that only last for 2.5 hours, barely 3 hours and decreasing with time. our friend @axhng 's z1 batt life is down to almost half an hour now after 3 months IIRC.
> I won't buy any KZ TWS again yet, until they fix batt and tech issue (connection isnt cut off, but the connection strength is not as good as other TWS, crackles / artifacts if I move a bit far or just slight covered from source. And hissing too, and connection hiccups if batt run below 40% sometimes (not all the time)



Just try a bit harder. Look at these vs. The Soudpeats H1. Put less but better armatures in there plus better batteries. They have a Knowles plus a dynamic, 6 hour battery, same gaming/lower latency mode, similar style shape/fit, adding in Qi wireless, real Qualcomm chip and aptX, better mics, and starting price is gonna be $10 more. They have 35 hours total which should beat the KZ as well as having more controls as KZ seems to leave out volume control on the buds. 

You can't be fooled by "more drivers" or think you are getting any kind of good deal with a KZ TWS.


----------



## unifutomaki

KZ needed to poach some engineers from the likes of Anker and other actually reputable Chinese TWS companies since yesterday and actually get their schiit together on this front, otherwise why they'd even bother putting out product after product is beyond me


----------



## Hifihedgehog (Sep 28, 2020)

Now that the one-month honeymoon is over, how is everyone here liking their ZAX's? After reading completely through a few dozen pages of your reactions, I am feeling fairly confident that these will be a solid buy. Currently, I am the proud owner of ZS 10 Pro's that I like quite a bit in many respects, but I feel like I am missing a bit of detail (especially in the upper treble), naturalness (in the mids), and openness (in term of soundstaging). I hate warm earphones, and I believe brans like Westone and Shure give IEMs a bad name due to their IEM veil or treble drop-off. My IEMs prior to the ZS 10 Pro's have been many including Phonak, DUNU, and the FiiO, though not so many as the headphones I used to own or demoed, where I have tried every major audiophile brand and model of headphone besides Stax and Audeze. My all-time favorite IEMs were the FiiO EX1 2nd Gen but I ultimately never replaced since the cables are prone to fail requiring repeated replacement. I would say I love PRaT and detail and would call myself a treblehead. I just ordered a set of ZAX's on Amazon that are due to arrive tomorrow. In your guys' experience, will the ZAX's do the trick for me?


----------



## Viber

moondowner said:


> To be honest when buying a new TWS, at least 5 hours playback on a single charge should be minimal. And there are plenty TWS sets under $50 that do 5+ hours. There are even some like the Alien Secret ‘Predator’ QCC010 that do 7hrs and are $25!



I ordered the Alien Secret a few days ago and i now feel like it was a dumb decision because it's a no-name "brand".
Hope i wont be disappointed.


----------



## voicemaster

Hifihedgehog said:


> Now that the one-month honeymoon is over, how is everyone here liking their ZAX's? After reading completely through a few dozen pages of your reactions, I am feeling fairly confident that these will be a solid buy. Currently, I am the proud owner of ZS 10 Pro's that I like quite a bit in many respects, but I feel like I am missing a bit of *detail (especially in the upper treble), naturalness (in the mids), and openness (in term of soundstaging)*. I hate warm earphones, and I believe brans like Westone and Shure give IEMs a bad name due to their IEM veil or treble drop-off. My IEMs prior to the ZS 10 Pro's have been many including Phonak, DUNU, and the FiiO, though not so many as the headphones I used to own or demoed, where I have tried every major audiophile brand and model of headphone besides Stax and Audeze. My all-time favorite IEMs were the FiiO EX1 2nd Gen but I ultimately never replaced since the cables are prone to fail requiring repeated replacement. I would say I love PRaT and detail and would call myself a treblehead. I just ordered a set of ZAX's on Amazon that are due to arrive tomorrow. In your guys' experience, will the ZAX's do the trick for me?


The zax is more detailed especially in the mid/vocal. The sound is more open and you can hear a longer decay on the cymbals.


----------



## BKChelly

I would like to know how the ZAX compare to the ZS10 Pro, which are my favorite IEMs. 
My pair just cracked and I'm ready to replace them.


----------



## IEMusic (Sep 28, 2020)

This is purely conjecture, for fun, b/c I’m hoping for a KZ that has a reasonably balanced tuning (non-V-shaped) with superb isolation, for an amazing budget stage monitor.  I was thinking that the “pro” moniker on the ASF was perhaps due to it being designed for monitor use, and thus would have excellent isolation.   Since it is all BA, I thought maybe it would be sealed/non-vented.  Based on the photos/ads provided, the bass driver may need a vented shell.






If so, then based on the design of the IEMs, it seems that the ASX may have better isolation than the ASF.  As you can see, the ASF drivers seem to fire into the space inside the shell, to which the nozzle is attached (like most KZs), unless the gray structure depicted is isolating the IEM nozzle and BA output from the back part of the shell.  Therefore, any outside sound let in by a vent, would be able to communicate somewhat directly with the nozzle, letting you hear outside noise.




The ASX clearly looks like a vented IEM, but as you can see, it is a tubed design (Are there any other tubed KZ IEMs?).  Because of this design, any sound that enters the shell via vents doesn‘t communicate with the nozzle.  The drivers communicate sound to the nozzle purely through the sound tubes.  Thus, the ASX will probably be able to provide excellent isolation, especially with foam tips or multi-flange tips.


----------



## IEMusic

Hopefully, both IEMs will be able to provide excellent passive isolation though.  This is probably the most excited/curious that I’ve ever been about a new KZ release.


----------



## Viber

I think the ASX will sound either spectacular or like a horrible mess.   
I'd be shocked if it will be anything in between.


----------



## IEMusic

Viber said:


> I think the ASX will sound either spectacular or like a horrible mess.
> I'd be shocked if it will be anything in between.


I agree.


----------



## moondowner

Viber said:


> I ordered the Alien Secret a few days ago and i now feel like it was a dumb decision because it's a no-name "brand".
> Hope i wont be disappointed.


 
Which one? As they have several TWS models. To be honest for $25 their 'Predator' offers 7hrs of continuous playback , AptX, Type-C charging port.. that's a really good deal. I guess their profit margin is pretty low and they are trying to make some presence with it.


----------



## Hifihedgehog

BKChelly said:


> I would like to know how the ZAX compare to the ZS10 Pro, which are my favorite IEMs.
> My pair just cracked and I'm ready to replace them.


Well, I own both and will be receiving the ZAX tomorrow, so I will let you know more as I discover the differences.


----------



## Wgibson

Just wanted to mention that I have been looking for loose 2 pin connectors for DIY stuff because I'm not an mmcx fan, and that led me back to just buying a few pairs of the EDX for $6 each... About $7 with no sales currently happening. Don't see how it can be done for that price, is it the cheapest replaceable cable IEM you can get?


----------



## BKChelly

Hifihedgehog said:


> Well, I own both and will be receiving the ZAX tomorrow, so I will let you know more as I discover the differences.



Thanks!


----------



## purplesun

IEMusic said:


> The ASX clearly looks like a vented IEM, but as you can see, it is a tubed design (Are there any other tubed KZ IEMs?).


AFAIK, KZ AS10, AS06, AS12 & CCA C16 has similar BA holder/adapter design.
Example AS10:


----------



## PhonoPhi

Viber said:


> I think the ASX will sound either spectacular or like a horrible mess.
> I'd be shocked if it will be anything in between.





purplesun said:


> AFAIK, KZ AS10, AS06, AS12 & CCA C16 has similar BA holder/adapter design.
> Example AS10:


I was not sure about AS06 and AS10, but it seems right.
Then BA10, A10, and AS16, as well.
In other words all all-BA KZ/CCA are using guides/tubes with BAs.


----------



## PhonoPhi

AS16 have an interesting configuration: 1, 1, 4, 4, for bass, mids, high mids, and treble, respectively.
It is not likely that those quads will be used at full power. What can be hopefully achieved is good smoothing of the sharp peaks (less harshness and less steely sounding) when their resonant frequencies are slightly offset.


----------



## IEMusic

purplesun said:


> AFAIK, KZ AS10, AS06, AS12 & CCA C16 has similar BA holder/adapter design.
> Example AS10:


Thanks.  That looks like the acoustic structure on the ASF, which serves the same purpose as the tubes, but is not exactly the same.  It probably still provides quite a bit of isolation.  How is the isolation on the various KZ all-BA IEMs?


----------



## purplesun (Sep 29, 2020)

I have tested all the BA-only KZ/CCA, that I mentioned, on plane flights and their isolation is top-notch. I sometimes just wear them like earplugs - not connected to any source. By comparison, hybrids or DD IEMs doesn't work for me as they still let in too much cabin pressure.

I hope for some user reviews on the ASX & ASF before the 11.11 sale. I am sitting out the early trials for this pair of BA-only products as the A10 gave my ears a good scare with its tuning. It's quite amazing/looney that KZ tunes BA-only IEMs that ranges from AS10 to A10. They must have a crew of tuners with a variety of listening tastes. To me, it seems the treblehead tuner has been calling the shots lately. But to each his own!


----------



## unifutomaki

Hifihedgehog said:


> Now that the one-month honeymoon is over, how is everyone here liking their ZAX's? After reading completely through a few dozen pages of your reactions, I am feeling fairly confident that these will be a solid buy. Currently, I am the proud owner of ZS 10 Pro's that I like quite a bit in many respects, but I feel like I am missing a bit of detail (especially in the upper treble), naturalness (in the mids), and openness (in term of soundstaging). I hate warm earphones, and I believe brans like Westone and Shure give IEMs a bad name due to their IEM veil or treble drop-off. My IEMs prior to the ZS 10 Pro's have been many including Phonak, DUNU, and the FiiO, though not so many as the headphones I used to own or demoed, where I have tried every major audiophile brand and model of headphone besides Stax and Audeze. My all-time favorite IEMs were the FiiO EX1 2nd Gen but I ultimately never replaced since the cables are prone to fail requiring repeated replacement. I would say I love PRaT and detail and would call myself a treblehead. I just ordered a set of ZAX's on Amazon that are due to arrive tomorrow. In your guys' experience, will the ZAX's do the trick for me?



I've still been enjoying mine. The ZAX have a slight V-shaped tuning, what some might call fun-sounding. It has a wide soundstage where you're placed slightly back from the front row. Vocals are slightly recessed to me, especially male vocals, but given that the Moondrop SSR is my benchmark in this regard, this might not even be a negative for you. Treble is clean but not harsh. Overall a very coherent sounding refined hybrid.


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> I have tested all the BA-only KZ/CCA, I mentioned, on plane flights and their isolation is top-notch. I sometimes just wear them like earplugs - not connected to any source. By comparison, hybrids or DD IEMs doesn't work for me as they still let in too much cabin pressure.
> 
> I hope for some user reviews on the ASX & ASF before the 11.11 sale. I am sitting out the early trials for this pair of BA-only products. The A10 gave my ears a good scare with its tuning. It's quite amazing/looney that KZ tunes BA-only IEMs that ranges from AS10 to A10. They must have a crew of tuners with a variety of listening tastes. To me, it seems the treblehead tuner has been calling the shots lately. But to each his own!


The reason why Hybrid and DD IEM doesn't isolate as much as all BA IEM is that they need to have some kind of vent to let the air in/out.
I have the ASX on order, but KZ official store at AE will start shipping them on Oct.15. So it will be quite awhile from now. Of course, I will be doing comparison with the ZAX.


----------



## Viber

moondowner said:


> Which one? As they have several TWS models. To be honest for $25 their 'Predator' offers 7hrs of continuous playback , AptX, Type-C charging port.. that's a really good deal. I guess their profit margin is pretty low and they are trying to make some presence with it.



The ones Scarbir gave 5 stars to, the "QCC010".
They were 19$ on Friday so i got them. 

Initially the plan was to buy the CCA CX10 TWS as they were on sale also, but then i saw they had horrible battery life and i didnt want to be left with no TWS at all.

I kinda regret not spending more on the 'Fiil T1XS' instead...price seemed too high at the time.


----------



## Hifihedgehog (Sep 29, 2020)

Freetrademan said:


> Just got the new KZ ZAX.
> I've spent more than a decade searching for the perfect sound in an earphone. This is the 64th earphone (and 13th KZ earphone) in my IEM collection. By far the best I've ever heard. I think I'll stop now. I am finally satisfied.






Freetrademan said:


> Well here's most of them. There are plenty more that I didn't record.
> Sony MDR-EX70, JVC HA-FX66, Panasonic RP-TCM125w, Panasonic IEM, Panasonic ErgoFit RP-HJE120-g, V-Moda Vibe, V-Moda IEM, Creative Labs E-630, Altec-Lansing IEM, Ultimate Ears MetroFi 150v , Apple earbuds, Klipsch Image S4i, Shure E2C, Shure SE110, Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro, Monoprice 8320 IEM, Monoprice 12238 IEM, Brainwavz Delta IEM, Roku IEM, Mrice E300, Philips SHE3595 IEM, Sony XBA-H1 IEM, JVC HAFX5R, JVC HAFX8W, FiiO EX-1, Joyroom E103 , Superlux HD381F , Rock Zircon, SWING IE800 , DZAT DF-10, KZ ATE, KZ EDR2 , UiiSii HM7, Xiaomi Piston Colorful , Tennmak Pro, QKZ W1 , QKZ V1, VE Monk+, 1MORE Triple Driver, VIVO XE800, AKG/Samsung IEM , KZ ATR, KZ ZS3, KZ ZST, KZ ED12, KZ ES3, KZ ZS5, KZ ZS5 + wireless, KZ ZS6, KZ ZS6+wireless, KZ ZS10, KZ ES4, KZ ES4, KZ ZSN, KZ ZSN Pro, TRN V80, **** EN900, Monoprice True Wireless, Samsung Galaxy Buds, JBL Endurance Peak (wireless), Tin T2 Pro, KZ ZAX



Not to be overly repetitive, @Freetrademan's post hits the nail on the head for these KZ ZAX's and I was very skeptical of his claims going in. Talk about giant killers! KZ has come a long way from where they were just a couple years ago and they are way better than the DUNU products out there. And about the KZ ZS10 Pro, it is not even remotely in the same class. ZAX's do everything so perfectly, it is almost shocking to listen to them.

The ZAX's put the Fiio EX-1 2nd Gen's to shame and easily trounce the old-school high-end Shure's (SE846 and SE535) and DUNU's (DN2000J and DK-3001) I have used. If I could best describe the ZAX's sound, it reminds me of the depth and soundstaging of open headphones but with the bass extension of closed headphones. Only the EX-1's were open sounding to me but the ZAX's eclipse in detail and dynamics.

Typically, the open headphones I have owned do well with songs like these below but closed headphones and especially earphones struggle to resolve the flickering ambience or reverberations surrounding the drums and cymbals. The ZAX's do that on the level of the HD 800's I owned with none of the peaks of the ZS10 Pro's. Holy moley, these are so good!





The sound is just so... complete. To be certain, I have heard way too many headphones (top models include the Sennheiser HD 800, HD 700, HD 650 and HD 600, HiFiMAN HE-1000, Grado PS-1000, Beyerdynamic T90 and T1, AKG Q 701 and K 812, ad nauseum) and I have driven them with reference-tier gear, including a Khadas Tone Board DAC and a JDS Labs Atom and Geshelli Labs Archel2.5 Pro amplifier. The ZAX has everything in the spades: balance, detail, vividness, dynamics, treble, bass, midrange, you name it. Yet there is no hint of overreaching or heavy-handedness from harshness, sterility, bloat or peakiness. End game? Yes, sir-ree! Buy without hesitation!


----------



## courierdriver

Hifihedgehog said:


> Not to be overly repetitive, @Freetrademan's post hits the nail on the head for these KZ ZAX's and I was very skeptical of his claims going in. Talk about giant killers! KZ has come a long way from where they were just a couple years ago and they are way better than the DUNU products out there. And about the KZ ZS10 Pro, it is not even remotely in the same class. ZAX's do everything so perfectly, it is almost shocking to listen to them.
> 
> The ZAX's put the Fiio EX-1 2nd Gen's to shame and easily trounce the old-school high-end Shure's (SE846 and SE535) and DUNU's (DN2000J and DK-3001) I have used. If I could best describe the ZAX's sound, it reminds me of the depth and soundstaging of open headphones but with the bass extension of closed headphones. Only the EX-1's were open sounding to me but the ZAX's eclipse in detail and dynamics.
> 
> ...



They are in my Aliexpress cart. Just waiting for the 11/11 sale to snag this set. Thanks for your comments and recommendations. I think I'm in!


----------



## Hifihedgehog (Sep 29, 2020)

You will love 'em. I certainly do!



I just listened to this Brazilian Pop Rock song Recomeçar by Restart, a guilty pleasure of mine. I use this track as a treble test of sorts to gauge a headphone's ability to resolve treble detail and its tendency to harshness. Harsh headphones will grate your ears with the cymbals when they come in at 0:38. Dull headphones will mask the amp distortion of the electric guitars at the opening (0:07). These straddle that line perfectly without exaggeration or dulling at either point. Plus the bass and vocals come through like a hot knife through butter. I mean, I am dumbfounded how KZ pulls this off so well. And the bass and midrange is so intoxicating. Amazing! I am literally relistening to my whole library and a headphone or earphone has not done that for me in a great many years. These are on par with my Adams A7X studio monitors for detail, impact, and resolution. Man, oh, man... If anything, you guys seriously underhyped these.



And no, these are not just rock or pop earphones. Like I said earlier, these are complete, serving up the full aural picture. Listening to this orchestral work from the original Star Trek series is breathtaking. The precision of the tonality combined with the articulation of the macro and micro-dynamics are spot on. The hitting of the gong at 3:23 in this classic Star Trek soundtrack is fully rendered in all its horrifying splendor and makes the pent-up emotion for the moment of peril in this track absolutely spellbinding. I keep wanting to find things to trip up these ZAX's and they just keep pulling off more and more tricks with aplomb. Musical rediscovery and engagement is the main aim of high-fidelity listening equipment and the ZAX's keep doing this surprise after surprise and put a smile on my face.


----------



## Viber

You guys need to put a trigger warning before your posts, some of us have sensitive wallets!


----------



## Mellowship

Hello again fellows. Long time no see. 

Is this ZAX another overhyped KZ? I've had my share of those.


----------



## Viber

Mellowship said:


> Hello again fellows. Long time no see.
> 
> Is this ZAX another overhyped KZ? I've had my share of those.



This site is always bitter about KZ:
https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zax-review

Read their reviews if you want to save money.


----------



## Viber

God, i wish these kind of Demos were actually useful:


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> This site is always bitter about KZ:
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zax-review
> 
> Read their reviews if you want to save money.



Actually, that review seemed quite positive. The biggest complaint seems to be the packaging, cable, and tips. Big deal


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## Viber (Sep 29, 2020)

Slater said:


> Actually, that review seemed quite positive. The biggest complaint seems to be the packaging, cable, and tips. Big deal



It's positive enough, but calling it a sidestep and saying there's no point to buy this if you have any of: ZSX, CCA C16, CA16, ZS10 (which is pretty old now) is pouring a huge bucket of cold water over it's hype.

Plus, anyone who doesnt like Kz has to mention how good Tin Hifi is.


----------



## voicemaster

Kz eartips is bad?? He ever tried Blon yet?


----------



## voicemaster

Mellowship said:


> Hello again fellows. Long time no see.
> 
> Is this ZAX another overhyped KZ? I've had my share of those.


The hype has been real since zs7.


----------



## Mellowship

Slater said:


> Actually, that review seemed quite positive. The biggest complaint seems to be the packaging, cable, and tips. Big deal


I already have one of those green cables 

And yes it seems quite positive, but they also thing it's a sidestep.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> This site is always bitter about KZ:
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-zax-review
> 
> Read their reviews if you want to save money.


This is what he wrote for the campfire ARA about their packaging: "The packaging is all cardboard, so you don't have to feel guilty about tossing some single-use plastics. Its an excellent unboxing experience with the starry night sleeve opening up like an exploding star to reveal the box containing the earphones."
And this is KZ: "Its the usual bottom of the barrel approach from KZ, a cheap cardboard box in which the earphones are well protected and the lowest quality accessories you could ever expect."
 
Buying an overpriced IEM just because of their "brand" is wasting money imho, but people can do whatever they want with their own money.


----------



## voicemaster

Mellowship said:


> I already have one of those green cables
> 
> And yes it seems quite positive, but they also thing it's a sidestep.


Yea please by the love of God don't buy the ZAX, buy 1964 TIA instead.


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## Hifihedgehog (Sep 29, 2020)

Viber said:


> God, i wish these kind of Demos were actually useful:



These don't even sound remotely close to the real thing. They sound way better that what that recording. The only way is throwing down the cash.

And no, these aren't overhyped KZs. I have a set of overhyped KZ's from two years ago, one of their very early models (it was given to me by an eBayer as a gift and it came in a white flimsy cardboard box) that sounds absolutely atrocious. KZ has come a long way since then and these ZAX's are a real giant killer. They actually sound like open headphones to me which is really uncanny and amazing, to tell you the truth.


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> They are in my Aliexpress cart. Just waiting for the 11/11 sale to snag this set. Thanks for your comments and recommendations. I think I'm in!


If you wait for 11.11, there’ll probably be the ZAX Pro by then.


----------



## trumpethead

The updated impressions on ZAX are really getting me excited... Mine are on the way and I'm happy to hear the positive early reviews.. Of course "Resistance Was Futile" as I like most of my KZ (with a few exceptions) and purchase them for musical pleasure as opposed to critical listening.. Also a cheap collectables hobby  alternative rather than collecting trumpets, keyboards , and PA sound equipment!


----------



## courierdriver

lgcubana said:


> If you wait for 11.11, there’ll probably be the ZAX Pro by then.


You're probably right but my finances prohibit me at this time. In the past month; I bought both CCA C10 PRO and a replacement set of ZS10 PRO, as well as 2 KBEAR cables. I gotta chill and take a bit of a break. November Aliexpress sale might be a better time for me to get the ZXS.


----------



## lgcubana

courierdriver said:


> You're probably right but my finances prohibit me at this time. In the past month; I bought both CCA C10 PRO and a replacement set of ZS10 PRO, as well as 2 KBEAR cables. I gotta chill and take a bit of a break. November Aliexpress sale might be a better time for me to get the ZXS.


I feel ya, I keep telling myself the same thing


----------



## purplesun

I think a frequency response graph, even a badly done one, would be a good early guide as to how the first 20-ba iem may sound like. For me, it's just too much a stab in the dark with KZ's wide spectrum of product sound signatures. And a big shout out to the early adopters for taking 1 or 2 (ASF & ASX) for the team!


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> I think a frequency response graph, even a badly done one, would be a good early guide as to how the first 20-ba iem may sound like. For me, it's just too much a stab in the dark with KZ's wide spectrum of product sound signatures. And a big shout out to the early adopters for taking 1 or 2 (ASF & ASX) for the team!


Did several times from ZS7, ZS10 pro, ZSX and ZAX. The ASX is a little bit pricey for KZ standard, but if you've been here long enough, it is a chump change compared to named/boutique brands. My friend once won the lucky draw from SF head-fi meet and he got the first price which is a USB cable that cost $1000 lol.


----------



## purplesun (Sep 29, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Did several times from ZS7, ZS10 pro, ZSX and ZAX. The ASX is a little bit pricey for KZ standard, but if you've been here long enough, it is a chump change compared to named/boutique brands. My friend once won the lucky draw from SF head-fi meet and he got the first price which is a USB cable that cost $1000 lol.


Have done a few purchase of new IEMs with no prior info myself, but gave them away when it didn't suit my ears. It's less risky to the wallet nowadays with China producing for their home markets and keeping prices low. It's still lottery, as it had always been, but the entry prices are much cheaper these days. With the sweet spot of diminishing returns getting ever lower. Oh yeah, not $1000, but rectangular solid-core cables still make me slap myself sometimes; I was a big box system guy


----------



## BKChelly

Hifihedgehog said:


> Not to be overly repetitive, @Freetrademan's post hits the nail on the head for these KZ ZAX's and I was very skeptical of his claims going in. Talk about giant killers! KZ has come a long way from where they were just a couple years ago and they are way better than the DUNU products out there. And about the KZ ZS10 Pro, it is not even remotely in the same class. ZAX's do everything so perfectly, it is almost shocking to listen to them.
> 
> The ZAX's put the Fiio EX-1 2nd Gen's to shame and easily trounce the old-school high-end Shure's (SE846 and SE535) and DUNU's (DN2000J and DK-3001) I have used. If I could best describe the ZAX's sound, it reminds me of the depth and soundstaging of open headphones but with the bass extension of closed headphones. Only the EX-1's were open sounding to me but the ZAX's eclipse in detail and dynamics.
> 
> ...




Already ordered!
Even tho u stated that the KZ ZS10 Pro are not in the same class as the ZAX, I’m still curious how they sound. I’m not a big IEM collector, this will be my third pair. I had the Tin T2s but returned them as I felt like the ZS10 Pro were wayy more fun to listen to EDM with. Hopefully the ZAX give me the same listening experience.


----------



## Mouseman

BKChelly said:


> Already ordered!
> Even tho u stated that the KZ ZS10 Pro are not in the same class as the ZAX, I’m still curious how they sound. I’m not a big IEM collector, this will be my third pair. I had the Tin T2s but returned them as I felt like the ZS10 Pro were wayy more fun to listen to EDM with. Hopefully the ZAX give me the same listening experience.


I have both, and also the ZSX. The ZAX is far superior to the Pros - it's one of the best IEMs I've heard and own. It's even better than the ZSX, but not by as much of a margin. Then again, the ZSX kicked the ZS10 Pro's butt, IMHO. 

I've been listening to some heavy bass stuff, it's awesome with the ZAX. Should translate well to EDM.


----------



## chinmie

courierdriver said:


> You're probably right but my finances prohibit me at this time. In the past month; I bought both CCA C10 PRO and a replacement set of ZS10 PRO, as well as 2 KBEAR cables. I gotta chill and take a bit of a break. November Aliexpress sale might be a better time for me to get the ZXS.



seeing the rate of IEMs that KZ's churning out, I'd take the same approach like you to take it slow, as KZ has a (good) reputation of outdone-ing themself with newer products. this ZAX is definitely on my radar too though, i might pick one to try out later



also a question for folks here that have them both: how's the ZAX compared to the Tin T2 plus?


----------



## voicemaster

For me ZAX > ZSX/C12 > ZS10 pro/ZS7/C10. I listened to my C12 again and it sounds quite similar to the ZAX than the ZSX. Mainly because the C12 has a bit more forward mid than the ZSX. The noticeable difference from ZAX and ZSX/C12 is the openness of sound. It just like Hifihedgehog said the sound is like open headphone. It is not because of treble extension which the ZSX able to achieve, but even the ZSX sounds closed compared to the ZAX.


----------



## voicemaster

Hifihedgehog said:


> You will love 'em. I certainly do!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Try Interstellar and Tron OST, eargasm!!


----------



## Viber

Here's a lukewarm review about the ZAX


----------



## BKChelly

Mouseman said:


> I have both, and also the ZSX. The ZAX is far superior to the Pros - it's one of the best IEMs I've heard and own. It's even better than the ZSX, but not by as much of a margin. Then again, the ZSX kicked the ZS10 Pro's butt, IMHO.
> 
> I've been listening to some heavy bass stuff, it's awesome with the ZAX. Should translate well to EDM.



i was originally going to buy the ZSX but their size made me rethink my decision. so I went with the ZS10 Pro which were smaller.

Are you using the stock cable with the ZAX or do u recommend upgrading?


----------



## unifutomaki

chinmie said:


> seeing the rate of IEMs that KZ's churning out, I'd take the same approach like you to take it slow, as KZ has a (good) reputation of outdone-ing themself with newer products. this ZAX is definitely on my radar too though, i might pick one to try out later
> 
> 
> 
> also a question for folks here that have them both: how's the ZAX compared to the Tin T2 plus?



Sound:

Neither are particularly notable for sub-bass, more midbass emphasis on the ZAX, slightly greater treble extension on the ZAX, soundstage is comparable on both, female vocals are comparable on both, T2 Plus edges out the ZAX in male vocals (greater texture, more forward), imaging is clearer on the T2 Plus, overall tonality still goes to the T2 Plus (this is subjective).

Fit and usability:

ZAX is more sensitive than the T2 Plus, ZAX has noticeably better isolation than the T2 Plus, extremely long listening sessions are more comfortable with the T2 Plus, stock cable is better on the T2 Plus.

If I could keep only one out of the two... gosh that's really difficult. I think I'd take the ZAX, by a hair, and proceed to mourn the lack of T2 Plus in my life.


----------



## Mouseman

BKChelly said:


> i was originally going to buy the ZSX but their size made me rethink my decision. so I went with the ZS10 Pro which were smaller.
> 
> Are you using the stock cable with the ZAX or do u recommend upgrading?


Upgrade away. I run mine balanced with a 4.4mm KBear cable that I "borrowed" from the ZSXs. I spent an hour with the stock cable for the heck of it, but you can do much better. 

The ZAX is definitely more comfortable in my ear than the ZSX. That was my biggest complaint with them, really - they weren't that comfy for long listening sessions due to the size of the shells. The ZAX fit is closer to the ZS 10.


----------



## ChoppedBroccoli

Just got the KZ ZAX today, initial impressions...

(+) The treble peak and forwardness makes them feel airy and open, and has a wide sound stage. Its a pretty lively listen overall.
(+) The bass is pretty controlled but has presence when called for. Its fast, not bloated, doesn't bleed into the mids
(+) Mids may be slightly recessed, but the lack of bass bleed doesn't make it feel that way
(+) I found the fit and comfort more than fine, even with stock tips
(+) Very easy to drive off of a phone or my Fiio uBTR
(-) Male vocals are a bit thin and don't have much depth. Vocal energy and volume is there, but the lower voices are missing something. On an acoustic track like Dobby - 1010 Benja SL his voice was missing a low end presence. Deeper voices would probably suffer even more. 
(-) Even though I wouldn't call these sibiliant, I'd say the treble peak is piercing at times. I would find these hard to listen to for an extended time for most of my music collection at moderate volumes or above.

Overall a nice set, but personally I want a bit more bass presence, more depth to male/mid vocals, and the treble energy toned down one notch. I could actually live with the well mannered bass in these, but not the vocals and treble energy. The ZAX are really close to something extra special because they sound slightly warm, are somewhere in between neutral-ish and a V shape, and have an airy-ness to the treble. In the end I probably won't keep them though. Despite having much lower treble energy and airyness, my Shozy Form 1.1's don't seem to miss any treble sparkle the ZAX have while giving me way more bass presence, depth to male vocals, and fatigue free listening.


----------



## voicemaster

ChoppedBroccoli said:


> Just got the KZ ZAX today, initial impressions...
> 
> (+) The treble peak and forwardness makes them feel airy and open, and has a wide sound stage. Its a pretty lively listen overall.
> (+) The bass is pretty controlled but has presence when called for. Its fast, not bloated, doesn't bleed into the mids
> ...



Are you using the stock cable? IIRC, silver cable tend to emphasize the treble more.


----------



## BubisUK

Managed to get ASX for 72$  The prices are all over the place on ali for this one at the moment, going up and down on the same stores.


----------



## Nightshader

BubisUK said:


> Managed to get ASX for 72$  The prices are all over the place on ali for this one at the moment, going up and down on the same stores.


Whaaat? Can you please tell me which store? Did you mean proper alibaba or aliexpress? 
On aliexpress the prices seem like set in stone at "99-102$" on ALL shops (at this moment)


----------



## BubisUK

Nightshader said:


> Whaaat? Can you please tell me which store? Did you mean proper alibaba or aliexpress?
> On aliexpress the prices seem like set in stone at "99-102$" on ALL shops (at this moment)


AliExpress


----------



## BubisUK (Sep 30, 2020)

SA Audio store is selling them for 75$ at the moment, the cheapest at the moment 
Edit:
The cheapest ASF I spoted was 45$ at KZ Promo store.


----------



## BubisUK

purplesun said:


> I think a frequency response graph, even a badly done one, would be a good early guide as to how the first 20-ba iem may sound like. For me, it's just too much a stab in the dark with KZ's wide spectrum of product sound signatures. And a big shout out to the early adopters for taking 1 or 2 (ASF & ASX) for the team!


Acording to some reviewers from Russia the Zax souns similar to terminator, but "more mature" so asx should sound similarly to as16 if KZ follows this approach. Just my 2p on the matter 😃


----------



## PhonoPhi

BubisUK said:


> Acording to some reviewers from Russia the Zax souns similar to terminator, but "more mature" so asx should sound similarly to as16 if KZ follows this approach. Just my 2p on the matter 😃


One should not be a reviewer to deduce ZSX and ZAX similarities based on a configuration alone 

You are likely right about ASX and AS16. AS16 have two bass BAs, but bass light for many. ASX have only one bass BA with nine other drivers.

Then with four independent BAs, ASX follows BA10 design line, and one direction of hopeful thinking is that ASX will be BA10+ in a nicely fitting shell and with smooth extended treble. It will be a winner!


----------



## Viber

BubisUK said:


> Managed to get ASX for 72$  The prices are all over the place on ali for this one at the moment, going up and down on the same stores.



Because it's basically pre-order right now.
It's good to use the Ali app and quickly enter and leave each product page as it shows you in red the actual price after all those weird Ali discounts and "store coupons".

The ASF indeed costs around 45$.


----------



## BubisUK

PhonoPhi said:


> Then with four independent BAs, ASX follows BA10 design line, and one direction of hopeful thinking is that ASX will be BA10+ in a nicely fitting shell and with smooth extended treble. It will be a winner!


That is what I am hoping too 🤞


----------



## RCracer777

Just got my ZAX in after almost a month of waiting for them. I've gotta say I'm impressed, they sound great.
Even the track I use to check for bass response and sibilance it just plays though it without issue. But what impressed me most is the sound stage and imaging, way beyond what I expected.

I think I'll be using these for quite a while.


----------



## unifutomaki

Happy to hear so many positive experiences with the ZAX  



My pair have since been treated to one of KZ's pink copper cables, while the stock cable has been donated to my ZSN Pros. Does it make any auditory difference?



Spoiler



No, it's just a cable


----------



## eclein

I see this ASX is 10 BAs a side now, the other day I read the same description which said 5 a side and suddenly today I see 10 a side? Which is correct? I know there is an ASF also which is five a side supposedly can you folks confirm?


----------



## RikudouGoku

eclein said:


> I see this ASX is 10 BAs a side now, the other day I read the same description which said 5 a side and suddenly today I see 10 a side? Which is correct? I know there is an ASF also which is five a side supposedly can you folks confirm?


ASX = 10 BA each side

ASF =  5 BA each side

yes, I am also getting a bit dizzy lol.


----------



## Francisk (Sep 30, 2020)

BKChelly said:


> i was originally going to buy the ZSX but their size made me rethink my decision. so I went with the ZS10 Pro which were smaller.
> 
> Are you using the stock cable with the ZAX or do u recommend upgrading?


I'm actually one of the few that prefers the ZS10 Pro's sound and fit over the ZSX. Since I'm the one listening to what I purchase, I'd better trust my own ears  I have since returned the ZSX. I noticed that the ZAX graph looks quite similar to ZSX except with some extra 10kHz peak on the ZAX so I'll skip the ZAX and maybe wait for KZ's next top of the chart product.


----------



## Wgibson

Anyone think there will be ASX reviews/graphs before the 11/11 sale?

Also, EDX - in pictures (3d renders) of the clear version, I see crossover components on the back of the driver. Is that typical for a single DD?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Wgibson said:


> Anyone think there will be ASX reviews/graphs before the 11/11 sale?
> 
> Also, EDX - in pictures (3d renders) of the clear version, I see crossover components on the back of the driver. Is that typical for a single DD?






It is likely I think that there will be more impressions/reviews by 11/11.


----------



## Sebasistan

TEN BA drivers per ear? This starts to remind me of the razor blade arms race...


----------



## eaglesgift

Sebasistan said:


> TEN BA drivers per ear? This starts to remind me of the razor blade arms race...


Only difference is, one blade is plenty.


----------



## Sebasistan

eaglesgift said:


> Only difference is, one blade is plenty.



I mean, so is one (dynamic) driver. Occasionally.


----------



## eaglesgift

Sebasistan said:


> I mean, so is one (dynamic) driver. Occasionally.


I don’t know - I’ve never tried shaving with a dynamic driver.


----------



## eclein

The ASX if done well could really put pressure on the higher priced brands. Some of the prices vs specs are ridiculous nowadays. I’ve seen 4-5 BA units priced over 2K and I just can’t see myself shelling out that kind of cash for “name brand”, If KZ dials in the tuning on these ..wow!
I’m watching for reviews on the ASX big time.


----------



## ChoppedBroccoli

voicemaster said:


> Are you using the stock cable? IIRC, silver cable tend to emphasize the treble more.



Used the stock cable, then also used the Shozy Form 1.1 all copper cable. Didn't notice a difference.

I used some microtape to half cover the nozzle filter. Definitely helped take out some of the extra energy in the treble a little bit, but in the end its personal preference for me - I like my airy vocals centered in the middle of the vocal range and the ZAX emphasizes this on the upper end of the vocal range.


----------



## Billyak

eaglesgift said:


> Only difference is, one blade is plenty.



Etymotic would like a word.


----------



## Hifihedgehog (Oct 4, 2020)

Just as a heads-up to everyone, I listened to my ZAX's with small size SpinFit CP145's. My ears are small so except in rare cases were extra small tips are included, most IEM tips will mute the sound. The SpinFit's fix that problem for me, improving an already outrageously detailed and resolving earphone. Listening to Concerning Hobbits (The Shire) from The Lord of the Rings official soundtrack, I can hear all the minute reverb trails and lead-outs of the instruments, particularly of the 0:26-0:28 of the tin whistle solo. Detail of this nature abounds and so does the heft of the bass wind instruments throughout.

But that's not all.





Ah, so dynamic yet exacting! What's more, all the venue and recording reverberations resonate in perfect harmony and are fully exposed. My jaw dropped to the floor with these earphones. Not even my HD 800s were close to providing a enveloping, dynamic and detailed experience like this.

All in all, this has got to be the audiophile deal of the century. Buy without hesitation. KZ really pulled off something truly magical with these. I could have paid 10 times as much and would not have been any less floored by these earphones. Truly amazing jam-packed value.


----------



## Dave Drums

Really intrigued by all the ZAX praise.... Think I'm going to hold out to see the next few KZ/CCA releases.... I've noticed there's vitually zero complaints on CA16 signature, except some people wanting more high end air - lot's loving the ZAX too....
I found it interesting to hear about the comparisons between the ZSX/C12 and CA16/ZAX.

After initially going back to ZSX from C12, (I thought the C12's were better at first but then figured they were too fatiguing in the top end)
I have to say I'm really enjoying the C12's again, they are just really engaging to listen to. 
I know the C12 are a bit of a marmite earphone on here, a bit like the C10 Pro....
One thing I've noticed is the C12 work really well for a lot of modern metal/djent/jazz+groove crossover stuff. A lot of drummers in these genres use darker cymbals.This was mainly instigated by a cymbal company called Meinl that really made this sound their trademark in the heavier genres, the main forerunner of this sound was Matt Gartstka from Animals as Leaders.  
I'm wondering if these drum sound choices of dry drums and dark cymbals play more into the hands of the treble monsters ala C12 and you end up with a more engaging listen without getting anywhere near the siblance/harshness that is their main criticism. 
Obviously a lot of these bands are largely instrumental so that rules out 'sssssss' vocal issues lol
Just an observation I noticed and maybe some insight for anyone that want's a new set for these genres...
Roll on the new KZ/CCA releases, will we miss a DD in the mix and will pure BA work? Who knows!!


----------



## TheVortex

Viber said:


> Here's a lukewarm review about the ZAX




Lukewarm indeed lol.


----------



## Hifihedgehog (Sep 30, 2020)

Viber said:


> Here's a lukewarm review about the ZAX






Peaky? Oh boy. This is a common misunderstanding of neutrality I notice among IEM users who have grown accustomed to the notorious "IEM veil" or rolled off sound of IEMs in comparison to headphones and speakers. So when they are faced with actual neutral treble response that extends into the upper frequency extremes, they dismiss it as peakiness. If you think this is peaky, you would hate many flagship and high-end headphones. Live sound is bright, and poorly mixed music will have peakiness. If you want to mask the warts and rosy up the sound, by all means, go right ahead. That is your preference. But something like the Sennheiser HD 800 would be annoying as all get-out, and a Beyerdynamic T90 would be literal heck on Earth.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Hifihedgehog said:


> Peaky? Oh boy. This is a common misunderstanding of neutrality I notice among IEM users who have grown accustomed to the notorious "IEM veil" or rolled off sound of IEMs in comparison to headphones and speakers. So when they are faced with actual neutral treble response that extends into the upper frequency extremes, they dismiss it as peakiness. If you think this is peaky, you would hate many flagship and high-end headphones. Live sound is bright, and poorly mixed music will have peakiness. If you want to mask the warts and rosy up the sound, by all means, go right ahead. That is your preference. But something like the Sennheiser HD 800 would be annoying as all get-out, and a Beyerdynamic T90 would be literal heck on Earth.


I very much agree.
Violins are quite "peaky" live, and they are one of the most perfect musical instruments.

With the veiled IEMs, E3000 is my benchmark, violins sound as if reproduced by a box speaker rather than live.

Then a common solution  of some "tuners" out there is to put "right" dampening filters to make IEM sounds unoffensively similar to a box speaker.


----------



## purplesun (Sep 30, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Violins are quite "peaky" live, and they are one of the most perfect musical instruments.
> With the veiled IEMs, E3000 is my benchmark, violins sound as if reproduced by a box speaker rather than live.


Yeah, even with the trebly C10 Pro - I find that it's the best IEM, that I have, for flamenco guitar performances. I have been playing lots of "Rodrigo y Gabriela" through it. To my ears, not even the ZAX can delivers the energy of their performances as well as C10 Pro. But it's a very niche application for me as I typically go for a more balanced sound presentation. But their album "Mettavolution" is highly addictive with the C10 Pro!


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> Yeah, even with the trebly C10 Pro - I find that it's the best IEM, that I have, for flamenco guitar performances. I have been playing lots of "Rodrigo y Gabriela" through it. To my ears, not even the ZAX can delivers the energy of their performances as well as C10 Pro. But it's a very niche application for me as I typically go for a more balanced sound presentation. But their album "Mettavolution" is highly addictive with the C10 Pro!


I found C10 pro in between ZS10 pro and CCA A10.
For the pizzicato strings, I often go to A10 - can be amazingly engaging.
Definitely A10 is even more "niche" than C10 Pro.
I was happy that CCA went back from dampening the treble in CA16.


----------



## purplesun

Heh, C10 pro is very spicy! While A10 is atomic spicy to me 

It scared the heck out of me! I've safely locked it away in it's dybbuk box since it's run-in period


----------



## Slater

Dave Drums said:


> Really intrigued by all the ZAX praise.... Think I'm going to hold out to see the next few KZ/CCA releases.... I've noticed there's vitually zero complaints on CA16 signature, except some people wanting more high end air - lot's loving the ZAX too....
> I found it interesting to hear about the comparisons between the ZSX/C12 and CA16/ZAX.
> 
> After initially going back to ZSX from C12, (I thought the C12's were better at first but then figured they were too fatiguing in the top end)
> ...



Do you have a good example of these dark cymbals I can check out?

Thanks!


----------



## Viber

Hifihedgehog said:


> Peaky? Oh boy. This is a common misunderstanding of neutrality I notice among IEM users who have grown accustomed to the notorious "IEM veil" or rolled off sound of IEMs in comparison to headphones and speakers. So when they are faced with actual neutral treble response that extends into the upper frequency extremes, they dismiss it as peakiness. If you think this is peaky, you would hate many flagship and high-end headphones. Live sound is bright, and poorly mixed music will have peakiness. If you want to mask the warts and rosy up the sound, by all means, go right ahead. That is your preference. But something like the Sennheiser HD 800 would be annoying as all get-out, and a Beyerdynamic T90 would be literal heck on Earth.



I dont understand your argument.
Live sound is bright and sometimes harsh, but that's why recorded music is mixed and mastered to sound loud yet pleasant and that's why most music is mixed to be more v-shaped rather than neutral - even instrumental music and soundtracks.

I never used ZAX so i can't comment on their sound.   I remember when i got the ZS6 i thought they were Excellent for the price! i knew they were..."too energetic" in the high freqs for some people here, but i liked them anyway.

On a side note, people tend to relate too much bass with low end and too much treble with HiFi and i'm not sure why.


----------



## voicemaster

I finally found something better than my silver ZAX!!


The matte black ZAX!!


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> I dont understand your argument.
> Live sound is bright and sometimes harsh, but that's why recorded music is mixed and mastered to sound loud yet pleasant and that's why most music is mixed to be more v-shaped rather than neutral - even instrumental music and soundtracks.
> 
> I never used ZAX so i can't comment on their sound.   I remember when i got the ZS6 i thought they were Excellent for the price! i knew they were..."too energetic" in the high freqs for some people here, but i liked them anyway.
> ...


If you can handle the ZS6 treble than the ZAX is nothing.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> If you can handle the ZS6 treble than the ZAX is nothing.



I must be getting weak though, because i tried them again lately after a year off and it was a bit too much for me haha.
I mainly listen to one of the brightest genres available so maybe i'm not such a good example...


----------



## unifutomaki

Viber said:


> On a side note, people tend to relate too much bass with low end and too much treble with HiFi and i'm not sure why.



Typical consumer gear tends to sport a massive low fi bass boost, leading to a boomy, muddy and veiled sound (see Beats). On the other hand, ChiFi marques have tended (at least in the past) to boost treble as a means of creating an illusion of detail and fidelity.


----------



## alamnp (Oct 1, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> If you can handle the ZS6 treble than the ZAX is nothing.



ZAX treble is much more extended than ZS6, I went back to CA16, will probably gift ZAX to one of my friend.


----------



## alamnp

ChoppedBroccoli said:


> Used the stock cable, then also used the Shozy Form 1.1 all copper cable. Didn't notice a difference.
> 
> I used some microtape to half cover the nozzle filter. Definitely helped take out some of the extra energy in the treble a little bit, but in the end its personal preference for me - I like my airy vocals centered in the middle of the vocal range and the ZAX emphasizes this on the upper end of the vocal range.



if i have to make adjustment for it to sound better, it means the IEM is not the best that you can get.

i think ZAX weakness is in its boosted bass and extended treble. It is really fatiguing to listen for a long period of time. The only tip that can dampen the treble is Comply foam tip which is very uncomforable for me. This is surely an IEM for treble head. If you are treble sensitive listener, stay away. I am gifting my ZAX away, the more I listen to it the more I don’t like the sound profile.


----------



## slex

Look at the grill of ZAX compare to TRN BA8, is that suppose to be standard grill for all

 KZ iems?


----------



## DynamicEars

slex said:


> Look at the grill of ZAX compare to TRN BA8, is that suppose to be standard grill for all KZ iems?




latest KZs using similar grill with ZAX and i prefer that kind rather than TRN's small holes grill. Bigger holes = better airflow, especially for IEMs with DD.


----------



## unifutomaki

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the ZAX is far from the brightest IEM I've come across, and are certainly less harsh and metallic sounding than my ZSN Pros. No, they are not neutral, and they aren't tuned for maximal inoffensiveness like say my PortaPros, but they aren't something only a treblehead could love either.


----------



## Mellowship

Viber said:


> I dont understand your argument.
> Live sound is bright and sometimes harsh, but that's why recorded music is mixed and mastered to sound loud yet pleasant and that's why most music is mixed to be more v-shaped rather than neutral - even instrumental music and soundtracks.
> 
> I never used ZAX so i can't comment on their sound.   I remember when i got the ZS6 i thought they were Excellent for the price! i knew they were..."too energetic" in the high freqs for some people here, but i liked them anyway.
> ...



Many albums, including the majority - if not all - of them that were mastered before the 1990's are not softened at all in the mastering process. Mainly in the jazz genre, even studio albums tend to sound crisp and to capture the recording environment, from the room modes to the mechanical noises of the instruments.
Some years ago I had the chance to visit an old audio guru that could not be farther to the snobbish audiophile community, and to listen to his system, mostly comprised of an heavily tweaked Philips CD player from the 80's, a DIY solid state amplifier in a Marantz case and Monitor Audio speakers with DIY crossovers. It was exactly like live sounding music. Sometimes harsh - he played a track with a trumpet and some notes almost hurt - but very bright where it was supposed to be bright, sweet where it was supposed to be sweet, and always organic and lively. It was the first system I listened to that you couldn't tell if the treble, bass, mids were this or that kind because everything blended perfectly together, mostly in terms of timbre. 

This takes me to a very important point here: naturality. 

(not to be confounded with "neutrality")  

Naturality is the quality of musical reproduction in which a reproduced sound is so close to the original in a way that your brain does not have to fill in for the gaps, does not have to look for the weaknesses and the strengths of the frequency curve. Naturality depends mostly on the timbre. If the sound of an acoustic instrument is reproduced in a way you can identify that instrument among many others and you can recognise that instrument beyond any doubt, the system is doing timbre right. Other measure of naturality is the absence of fatigue.   

How many KZ IEMs sound natural? And in what circumstances? 

Some of them are fun (ZS4, ATE), some of them are neutral, to be kind... (ATR), some come close but no cigar (ZSN), or close but you feel something missing and you just can't explain what (AS10). The ZS5 mkI with lots of power is almost there. Glad I was able to get two of those. All of them have great value. 

But to me, the Sony MH755, despite its flaws, sound more natural than any KZ, and it is still a great value. 

I'm yet to listen to the CC stuff, and the Pro stuff and any new KZ that came after the ZSN. I suspect they are just more of the same, and this is not the first time I rant about KZ not being able to use its ability to mass produce so many different IEMs and yet not giving us something different. I am almost joining the ranks of those who wish KZ made a single high quality DD in a shell acoustically design specifically for that driver. Instead, KZ keeps making cheap single DD IEMs that sound hollow or muffled, and is scaling the number of BA and the price of the TOFL IEMs with not many advantages from prior models. 

I would definitely pay 30 EUR for a single DD from KZ made with the build quality and the looks of the ZSN or the ZAX, with a good driver that could go down and punch some fine sub-bass, go up and produce a sweet and accurate treble and kept all the information in between.


----------



## Dave Drums

Slater said:


> Do you have a good example of these dark cymbals I can check out?
> 
> Thanks!


Matt Gartska with Animals as Leaders 
Matt Helpern with Periphery 
Anika Nilles solo stuff 

All of these bands sound great with my C12's


----------



## Viber

Mellowship said:


> Many albums, including the majority - if not all - of them that were mastered before the 1990's are not softened at all in the mastering process. Mainly in the jazz genre, even studio albums tend to sound crisp and to capture the recording environment, from the room modes to the mechanical noises of the instruments.
> Some years ago I had the chance to visit an old audio guru that could not be farther to the snobbish audiophile community, and to listen to his system, mostly comprised of an heavily tweaked Philips CD player from the 80's, a DIY solid state amplifier in a Marantz case and Monitor Audio speakers with DIY crossovers. It was exactly like live sounding music. Sometimes harsh - he played a track with a trumpet and some notes almost hurt - but very bright where it was supposed to be bright, sweet where it was supposed to be sweet, and always organic and lively. It was the first system I listened to that you couldn't tell if the treble, bass, mids were this or that kind because everything blended perfectly together, mostly in terms of timbre.
> 
> This takes me to a very important point here: naturality.
> ...



You lost me with the ZS5 mk1 lol
No way those things are anything near natural or neutral for that matter and i'm 100% sure of that.  

And also: Naturality doesnt always work with Electronic music.  What is the "natural" sound of a drum machine or a synth?  you might just end up with a grainy mess.

It seems to me like we're asked to give up too much in the hunt for "Naturality", if that's even really possible.


----------



## Viber

unifutomaki said:


> Typical consumer gear tends to sport a massive low fi bass boost, leading to a boomy, muddy and veiled sound (see Beats). On the other hand, ChiFi marques have tended (at least in the past) to boost treble as a means of creating an illusion of detail and fidelity.



I know, but people need to remember that making headphones with great Treble and no bass or the other way around is Easy.    Making a good balanced headphone which can extend well on both ends is HARD.  
It's important to make a product which can sound very good across many styles and genres, i don't like headphones which sound 10/10 for Classical\Jazz  yet 5/10 for Electronic Music.


----------



## Keputs

Meanwhile, while I'm reading (and trying to understand) everyone's rant or rave, I'm just rocking out and enjoying some Robert Plant ditty on Tidal Masters.


----------



## Mellowship

Viber said:


> You lost me with the ZS5 mk1 lol
> No way those things are anything near natural or neutral for that matter and i'm 100% sure of that.
> 
> And also: Naturality doesnt always work with Electronic music.  What is the "natural" sound of a drum machine or a synth?  you might just end up with a grainy mess.
> ...



The ZS5 mk1 are not neutral, but sound accurate in timbre and hold their midrange well, without sounding hollow. I'd say they sound more natural to me than the AS10 for instances.

Regarding electronic music, you are absolutely right. But the thing here is, if we tune our systems to play electronic music the way we like to listen to it, we run the risk of losing everything else to some indescribable mess. On the other hand, if our systems can reproduce acoustic instruments with naturality, with accurate timbre, without fatigue, we automatically know that their work is being well done in terms of fidelity, hence the reproduction of a drum machine or a synthesizer will sound as close as the waveforms they generate within their circuitry.  

I don't believe the hunt for naturality is frivolous or impossible, and that we have to give up anything to achieve it. I also believe that the recording industry plays the major role in this problem, and we should all be more demanding about the sound quality of the recorded media, as it plays a major role in defining what a system must sound or what tunning have to be in place for it to sound more pleasant or whatever quality we are looking for.


----------



## seanwee

Viber said:


> You lost me with the ZS5 mk1 lol
> No way those things are anything near natural or neutral for that matter and i'm 100% sure of that.
> 
> And also: Naturality doesnt always work with Electronic music.  What is the "natural" sound of a drum machine or a synth?  you might just end up with a grainy mess.
> ...


Which is why I look for realistic sounding gear.


----------



## BKChelly

Francisk said:


> I'm actually one of the few that prefers the ZS10 Pro's sound and fit over the ZSX. Since I'm the one listening to what I purchase, I'd better trust my own ears  I have since returned the ZSX. I noticed that the ZAX graph looks quite similar to ZSX except with some extra 10kHz peak on the ZAX so I'll skip the ZAX and maybe wait for KZ's next top of the chart product.



totally agree, everyone’s ears are different and how they prefer their music to sound.
I bought the Tin T2s after ppl swore I would love them more than the ZS10 Pros....
Nope I returned them immediately. Not that they weren’t good, they were just missing something The ZS10 pros brought to the table.  

But I just wanna see what else is out there since they broke and the ZAX Looked pretty good. I can always return them. I’m also leaning towards the caa c10pros if the ZAX don’t work out.


----------



## baskingshark

BKChelly said:


> totally agree, everyone’s ears are different and how they prefer their music to sound.
> I bought the Tin T2s after ppl swore I would love them more than the ZS10 Pros....
> Nope I returned them immediately. Not that they weren’t good, they were just missing something The ZS10 pros brought to the table.
> 
> But I just wanna see what else is out there since they broke and the ZAX Looked pretty good. I can always return them. I’m also leaning towards the caa c10pros if the ZAX don’t work out.



Just my 2 cents, but I feel the KZ ZS10 Pro is better than the newer CCA C10 Pro. They are similar in technical performance but the CCA C10 Pro is much harsher in the treble brightness with sibilance and poor acoustic instrumental timbre. There's no value add if you already own the ZS10 Pro. Maybe if u are a treblehead then the CCA C10 Pro will be up your alley, but I find it too fatiguing personally.

Haven't tried the ZAX but hope to one day, since reviews seem to be quite favourable for it.


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> Just my 2 cents, but I feel the KZ ZS10 Pro is better than the newer CCA C10 Pro. They are similar in technical performance but the CCA C10 Pro is much harsher in the treble brightness with sibilance and poor acoustic instrumental timbre. There's no value add if you already own the ZS10 Pro. Maybe if u are a treblehead then the CCA C10 Pro will be up your alley, but I find it too fatiguing personally.
> 
> Haven't tried the ZAX but hope to one day, since reviews seem to be quite favourable for it.


I do not have that harsh opinion on C10 pro.
I dare to say the treble is about the same bright "KZ" in ZS10P, C10P and A10.

It feels that moving from ZS10P to C10P, the DD bass became tighter and leaner, so C10P treble is correspondingly more prominent. 

A10 with a leaner BA bass is even more treble-rich in comparison.

So C10P is in between ZS10P and A10 for me, and at the moment I prefer extremes. 

ZS10P, while not exactly my cup of tea, is definitely special and very enjoyable with some electronic music.


----------



## BKChelly (Oct 1, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Just my 2 cents, but I feel the KZ ZS10 Pro is better than the newer CCA C10 Pro. They are similar in technical performance but the CCA C10 Pro is much harsher in the treble brightness with sibilance and poor acoustic instrumental timbre. There's no value add if you already own the ZS10 Pro. Maybe if u are a treblehead then the CCA C10 Pro will be up your alley, but I find it too fatiguing personally.
> 
> Haven't tried the ZAX but hope to one day, since reviews seem to be quite favourable for it.



hmmmmm lol not sure if I’m a treblehead (all new to this). Definitely not a basshead tho. Maybe a mid-head? Lol

I like my music crisp clean especially when it comes to rock Genres. I wanna hear all the details But not sharp/piercing. Bass needs to be good and present (For hip hop/edm) but knows it’s place (comes and goes when it should). It’s not hanging over the whole song beginning to end (ugh beats).
I listen to a wide spectrum of music so I prefer headphones that work with most genres.

**not to say the ZS10 Pro aren’t shrill at times. Sometimes listening to hardstyle (like Kayzo/Slander) can really pierce my ears.


----------



## Sam L

Viber said:


> I know, but people need to remember that making headphones with great Treble and no bass or the other way around is Easy.    Making a good balanced headphone which can extend well on both ends is HARD.
> It's important to make a product which can sound very good across many styles and genres, i don't like headphones which sound 10/10 for Classical\Jazz  yet 5/10 for Electronic Music.


Something that would be a 10/10 for classical and 10/10 for edm doesn't exist. Which is one of the reasons we have so many iems, no? 

10/10 for one genre and 8/10 for other genres is obtainable. The LZ A7 does this currently.


----------



## Sam L

Sam L said:


> Something that would be a 10/10 for classical and 10/10 for edm doesn't exist. Which is one of the reasons we have so many iems, no?
> 
> 10/10 for one genre and 8/10 for other genres is obtainable. The LZ A7 does this currently.


Then you swap out a filter and what was 8/10 is not 10/10, but the previous genre is now 8/10.


----------



## Viber

Mellowship said:


> The ZS5 mk1 are not neutral, but sound accurate in timbre and hold their midrange well, without sounding hollow. I'd say they sound more natural to me than the AS10 for instances.



Maybe it's QC in inconsistency, but i can't agree.


----------



## Viber

Sam L said:


> 10/10 for one genre and 8/10 for other genres is obtainable. The LZ A7 does this currently.



Yea, but at what cost?   :-D

My point is, we usually have to compromise between a good all-arounder or a great one dimensional product.


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> Yea, but at what cost?   :-D
> 
> My point is, we usually have to compromise between a good all-arounder or a great one dimensional product.



ditto, I am willing to invest in a good all-rounder IEM, any suggestion? Of course must be a significant step up from CA16


----------



## tgx78

alamnp said:


> ditto, I am willing to invest in a good all-rounder IEM, any suggestion? Of course must be a significant step up from CA16



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lz-...d-reviews-thread.938134/page-28#post-15895590


----------



## teus

Damnit. The transparant pieces around the connector for my KZ ZS10 pro broke. The cable now moves loosely over the connector and won't stay in. Is this common, and how do I fix it? 
How is it called anyway? I have a 3D printer available.


----------



## TheVortex

teus said:


> Damnit. The transparant pieces around the connector for my KZ ZS10 pro broke. The cable now moves loosely over the connector and won't stay in. Is this common, and how do I fix it?
> How is it called anyway? I have a 3D printer available.



There has been a few cases of this unfortunately.
Do you swap the cables often?


----------



## teus (Oct 1, 2020)

TheVortex said:


> There has been a few cases of this unfortunately.
> Do you swap the cables often?


no, not at all. but I use them in bed, and when cycling, so that might put some strain on it.
right now I'm looking for new connectors, hoping I could transfer those plastic pieces.
edit: the IEM's are held together by screws. it might be reasonable to access it, and just solder in a new connector.


----------



## teus

these seem to be the right ones?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000077525969.html


----------



## teus

I remembered I had an incredibly small Torx bit somewhere. Popped off the back cover, they're not using a slightly different connector.


----------



## alamnp

teus said:


> Damnit. The transparant pieces around the connector for my KZ ZS10 pro broke. The cable now moves loosely over the connector and won't stay in. Is this common, and how do I fix it?
> How is it called anyway? I have a 3D printer available.


same happened to my kz 10 pro


----------



## baskingshark

BKChelly said:


> hmmmmm lol not sure if I’m a treblehead (all new to this). Definitely not a basshead tho. Maybe a mid-head? Lol
> 
> I like my music crisp clean especially when it comes to rock Genres. I wanna hear all the details But not sharp/piercing. Bass needs to be good and present (For hip hop/edm) but knows it’s place (comes and goes when it should). It’s not hanging over the whole song beginning to end (ugh beats).
> I listen to a wide spectrum of music so I prefer headphones that work with most genres.
> ...



If u found the ZS10 Pro shrill, then the CCA C10 Pro is worse in the treble in terms of harshness and sibilance. CCA C10 Pro's bass is also lighter than the ZS10 Pro, as @PhonoPhi mentioned.
I think the ears take the entire frequency spectrum as a whole, so if one decreases bass in the CCA C10 pro, the treble will be perceived to be more (relatively) ie seesaw effect.

So you might need to look elsewhere from the CCA C10 Pro based on your requirements. Maybe the rest can advise about the CCA CA16 and ZAX if they will be a good fit for you, they seem to have good reviews here but I haven't tried em. And KZ is releasing some new models soon (ASX and ASF), so might be worth to wait for those reviews to filter out.

There's many other CHIFI options outside of KZ/CCA, so u can also ask the rest in these threads for their suggestions:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...nd-impressions-sharing-reference-list.805930/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/


----------



## BKChelly (Oct 1, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> If u found the ZS10 Pro shrill, then the CCA C10 Pro is worse in the treble in terms of harshness and sibilance. CCA C10 Pro's bass is also lighter than the ZS10 Pro, as @PhonoPhi mentioned.
> I think the ears take the entire frequency spectrum as a whole, so if one decreases bass in the CCA C10 pro, the treble will be perceived to be more (relatively) ie seesaw effect.
> 
> So you might need to look elsewhere from the CCA C10 Pro based on your requirements. Maybe the rest can advise about the CCA CA16 and ZAX if they will be a good fit for you, they seem to have good reviews here but I haven't tried em. And KZ is releasing some new models soon (ASX and ASF), so might be worth to wait for those reviews to filter out.
> ...



wow thanks for the list I’ll definitely check it out.

**KZ ZS7 & possibly KZ ASF sound like a good match for me**


----------



## Wgibson

Ok, since I have the ZAX, ZSZ, C12, and CA16, here are some graphs (my first attempt at "real" graphs, lined up at 85db @ 1000hz.) Using room eq wizard, daytom imm6 with tube coupler and a cut small starline tip so I can get a consistent (easy to visually verify) insertion depth.

Cliff notes: graphs don't tell you everything, but I have a do big imbalance on my CA16 low end that I can't explain.

Note notes: on efficiency, if we call the ZAX 0db, the CA12 were -2db, ZSX -1db, CA16 -5db. With the exact same setup, using only L channel of the cable (that is what I calibrated the "soundcard" with, and I have trust issues.) Those are the adjustments to match everything to 85db @ 1000hz, so ZAX is the most efficient.

In order of my preference:

ZAX- great soundstage, treble is detailed but doesn't bother me for some reason. Everything stands out but nothing takes over, if that makes sense. Definitely my favorite KZ or CCA, and I think at the top of my list overall. (Other contenders in no particular order being Shuoer Tape, C16, V90, BGVP zero, RHA T20 mmcx)

C12-  fun sound, can deal with the treble for most content. Really like these.

ZSX- lots of detail, but the treble is just too hot for me.

CA16- hard to explain why, its fine, but I just don't  reach for it often. Need to dig into the low end imbalance (vents?) and those dumb short small diameter nozzles that can't hold onto starline tips... But it has good presentation for just about everything.

Anyway, setup pics and graphs:


----------



## chinmie

sadly i don't understand japanese, but this reviewer is very good, because he also gives visual references (also stereo position display) using common tools in recording /mixing environment, making it easier to see the difference.


----------



## DynamicEars

Wgibson said:


> Ok, since I have the ZAX, ZSZ, C12, and CA16, here are some graphs (my first attempt at "real" graphs, lined up at 85db @ 1000hz.) Using room eq wizard, daytom imm6 with tube coupler and a cut small starline tip so I can get a consistent (easy to visually verify) insertion depth.
> 
> Cliff notes: graphs don't tell you everything, but I have a do big imbalance on my CA16 low end that I can't explain.
> 
> ...



Hey thanks for the graph, that a quite nice result from imm6 mic + coupler. Can you try to get resonance peak on 8khz? yours currently on 10khz, that means your insertion is too deep. Just do it on your free time if you are keen, again thanks for your effort.


----------



## DynamicEars

chinmie said:


> sadly i don't understand japanese, but this reviewer is very good, because he also gives visual references (also stereo position display) using common tools in recording /mixing environment, making it easier to see the difference.




thats a nice review with lot of efforts. Thanks for sharing


----------



## chinmie

DynamicEars said:


> thats a nice review with lot of efforts. Thanks for sharing



no problem   
i also hope for our japanese speaking friends here can fill us in on what the reviewer said and write on the videos, so we have a more complete info


----------



## Wgibson

DynamicEars said:


> Hey thanks for the graph, that a quite nice result from imm6 mic + coupler. Can you try to get resonance peak on 8khz? yours currently on 10khz, that means your insertion is too deep. Just do it on your free time if you are keen, again thanks for your effort.



Yes, I can/will definitely do that. The 10k peak is absolutely coupler resonance. I have a larger diameter tube that also fits, but wasn't getting repeatable results so I put it aside temporarily. And my assessment at the time was that the 10k peak looked like a lot of other graphs I was finding online, but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.


----------



## DynamicEars

Wgibson said:


> Yes, I can/will definitely do that. The 10k peak is absolutely coupler resonance. I have a larger diameter tube that also fits, but wasn't getting repeatable results so I put it aside temporarily. And my assessment at the time was that the 10k peak looked like a lot of other graphs I was finding online, but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.



i have IEC711 clone coupler but still hesitate to get ZAX, but seems like they are good, but too many side grades here, and on otherside they have the ASX coming with 10 driver per side.. ugh..


----------



## Wgibson

DynamicEars said:


> i have IEC711 clone coupler but still hesitate to get ZAX, but seems like they are good, but too many side grades here, and on otherside they have the ASX coming with 10 driver per side.. ugh..



Only IEM I bought a backup pair of, and if you get the coupons/sales right, less than $50... just sayin. ASX look interesting and less than $75 right now, seems like they tweaked all of the BA designs slightly, but I'll probably wait for reviews if I can maintain the willpower. Should be able to if I keep busy with graphing stuff I already have, we'll see.


----------



## unifutomaki

Wgibson said:


> Only IEM I bought a backup pair of



Will probably do the same when 11/11 comes around, wouldn't want my ZAX enjoyment to be interrupted due to connectors shattering or any of that bs!


----------



## Luis1316

Basically, that japanese reviewer says that ZAX is not that different to the ZSX. ZAX is a bit cleaner and a has bigger soundstage by a bit, but in general they're really close to each other. A new buyer should look for ZAX but if you alredy have a ZSX, he recommends to wait or look for another upgrade.


----------



## moisespr123

Luis1316 said:


> Basically, that japanese reviewer says that ZAX is not that different to the ZSX. ZAX is a bit cleaner and a has bigger soundstage by a bit, but in general they're really close to each other. A new buyer should look for ZAX but if you alredy have a ZSX, he recommends to wait or look for another upgrade.



While this may be true, I feel the ZAX has a more bolder sound. It also removes the metallic sound the ZSX may have on some tracks and the bass is a bit better. Overall I'm enjoying the ZAX more than their previous IEMs.


----------



## Mouseman

I don't think they're night and day, but the ZAX is more coherent and has better detail retrieval. It also has a better Soundstage and is more comfortable. And this is after a week. So, yeah...they're better.


----------



## jant71

Isn't this always the way with KZ. "Leapfrog performance" or other exclamation of big advance by KZ and it is usually "close but a bit better" to quote what has been said.


----------



## chinmie (Oct 2, 2020)

Luis1316 said:


> Basically, that japanese reviewer says that ZAX is not that different to the ZSX. ZAX is a bit cleaner and a has bigger soundstage by a bit, but in general they're really close to each other. A new buyer should look for ZAX but if you alredy have a ZSX, he recommends to wait or look for another upgrade.



yeah, based on the visual readings and sound demo, i think i will stick to the ZSX for now. even looking at the name changes when the demo music playing, the jump/differences between the ZAX to ZSX sounded seamless to me, meaning the difference is not too apparent anyway (compared to the control/source sound).

i might paint my ZSX matte black, just for kicks  

edit:sorry, i replied to the wrong post


----------



## Viber

It's important to remember ZAX costs almost two times more than ZSX.


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> yeah, based on the visual readings and sound demo, i think i will stick to the ZSX for now. even looking at the name changes when the demo music playing, the jump/differences between the ZAX to ZSX sounded seamless to me, meaning the difference is not too apparent anyway (compared to the control/source sound).
> 
> i might paint my ZSX matte black, just for kicks
> 
> edit:sorry, i replied to the wrong post


The difference is quite apparent to human ears or to my ears at least. Its like open vs closed headphone kind of difference. The sound signature may be not that different, meaning it is still a V sound. But the openness is no joke on ZAX. The ZSX is still a solid buy too and it already came down in price.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> It's important to remember ZAX costs almost two times more than ZSX.


When zsx first came out. The price was the same as zax right now on Ali. Its like comparing 2019 car to 2020 car price.


----------



## voicemaster

Mouseman said:


> I don't think they're night and day, but the ZAX is more coherent and has better detail retrieval. It also has a better Soundstage and is more comfortable. And this is after a week. So, yeah...they're better.


I think the fit alone will be more widely acceptable on the ZAX. The only downside to zsx was the fit. Agree with all the points above too.


----------



## unifutomaki

FWIW, there's no real need to rush to upgrade to the ZAX from the ZSX or even the ZS10 Pros if you're happy with them. The nature of product iteration is that there's never really going to be such a revolutionary difference associated with a new thing that makes the old thing completely useless and irrelevant. 

But that's not to say that there's no real difference or noticeable improvement between recent KZ hybrids and the ZAX. Memes about the driver arms race aside, it is a very well executed product and I reach for them first when heading out to places.


----------



## PhonoPhi

jant71 said:


> Isn't this always the way with KZ. "Leapfrog performance" or other exclamation of big advance by KZ and it is usually "close but a bit better" to quote what has been said.


It is true that ZAX and ZSX share a lot of the similarities and the frequency curves can be very similar.
Then the air, openness and fuller mids are there in ZAX vs. ZSX.

I would surmise that such improvements in "TOTL"s would cost thousands, but I can certainly understand the expectations to provide significantly better IEMs at the same or lower cost for KZ


----------



## chinmie

for those who are using the Wavelet app, they have a harman tuning setting for ZSX (among other popular KZ models). it clears up the mid details quite nicely, well at least for my ears. worth to try


----------



## Wgibson

unifutomaki said:


> FWIW, there's no real need to rush to upgrade to the ZAX from the ZSX or even the ZS10 Pros if you're happy with them. The nature of product iteration is that there's never really going to be such a revolutionary difference associated with a new thing that makes the old thing completely useless and irrelevant.
> 
> But that's not to say that there's no real difference or noticeable improvement between recent KZ hybrids and the ZAX. Memes about the driver arms race aside, it is a very well executed product and I reach for them first when heading out to places.



Don't have ZS10 pro, but I agree (personally I think there is significant improvement from ZSX or C12 to ZAX, step up not to the side) but yes, wait for the sales. If you're reading this thread the ZAX should be on your short list.

Take the best qualities of ZSX (air, soundstage) and C12 (engaging V, no sibilance) both have a good low end, improve the mids a bit, a bit easier to drive, and you've got the ZAX. Fit is closer to the C12, personally I like the ZSX fit but that depends on your ears.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

KZ ZS10 is my first pair of KZ. Really nice sound for the price


----------



## pauliunas

Are they all V-shaped, or are there any relatively flat ones? With so many different models, it's hard to keep track of their differences...


----------



## unifutomaki

pauliunas said:


> Are they all V-shaped, or are there any relatively flat ones? With so many different models, it's hard to keep track of their differences...



Flat and KZ don't go together. You may want to look into models like the CVJ CS8/CSN, HZSound Heart Mirror, TinHiFi T2/T2+ and Moondrop SSR if you're looking for a flat-ish signature on a budget.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

How is the kz as16?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 3, 2020)

pauliunas said:


> Are they all V-shaped, or are there any relatively flat ones? With so many different models, it's hard to keep track of their differences...


ZAX is less V-shaped compared to ZSX and ZS10 pro.

KZ made AS16 (my favourite one so far) - not V, less bass, more treble, but it was not widely appreciated, so KZ got back to V...

P.S. Edited a jumbled sentence.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

PhonoPhi said:


> ZAX is less V-shaped compared
> KZ made AS16 (my favourite one so far) - not V, less bass, more treble, but it was not widely appreciated, so KZ got back to V...


I will try to see if I can find demo pair . Have you ever tried TFZ Queen or tequila?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Green Golden Retriver said:


> How is the kz as16?





Green Golden Retriver said:


> I will try to see if I can find demo pair . Have you ever tried TFZ Queen or tequila?


No, I have not, sorry.
If you are into bass of ZS10, BA bass of AS16 can feel very lean.

C16 may be also an option to consider - still reserved bass, very nice thick mids and fairly rolled off treble compared to AS16, where the treble us quite rich.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

PhonoPhi said:


> No, I have not, sorry.
> If you are into bass of ZS10, BA bass of AS16 can feel very lean.
> 
> C16 may be also an option to consider - still reserved bass, very nice thick mids and fairly rolled off treble compared to AS16, where the treble us quite rich.


Is it the cca16?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Is it the cca16?


CCA C16 (all BA, close sibling of AS16), not CA16.
CA16 may also a good option, if gentle treble is preferred, to me CA16 is super C10.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

PhonoPhi said:


> CCA C16 (all BA, close sibling of AS16), not CA16.
> CA16 may also a good option, if gentle treble is preferred, to me CA16 is super C10.


Cca16 is not the same as as16?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Cca16 is not the same as as16?


KZ AS16 is closely related to CCA C16, but different (treble BAs are different).
CCA CA16 is a newer hybrid and different from AS16 or C16.
There is no "CCA 16"; and sorry, I am not responsible for this perplexing nomenclature


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ AS16 is closely related to CCA C16, but different (treble BAs are different).
> CCA CA16 is a newer hybrid and different from AS16 or C16.
> There is no "CCA 16"; and sorry, I am not responsible for this perplexing nomenclature


I understand now thank you very much so ca16 should be the best right


----------



## PhonoPhi

Green Golden Retriver said:


> I understand now thank you very much so ca16 should be the best right


CA16 can be one the best for gentle treble and nice (but not overwhelming) DD bass - very smooth and yet resolving; for ~$50 - hard to beat.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

PhonoPhi said:


> CA16 can be one the best for gentle treble and nice (but not overwhelming) DD bass - very smooth and yet resolving; for ~$50 - hard to beat.


Nice will find a place to demo it , thanks for your explanation


----------



## pauliunas

unifutomaki said:


> Flat and KZ don't go together. You may want to look into models like the CVJ CS8/CSN, HZSound Heart Mirror, TinHiFi T2/T2+ and Moondrop SSR if you're looking for a flat-ish signature on a budget.


Thanks for the advice  guess I'll keep walking then, haha


----------



## alamnp

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Nice will find a place to demo it , thanks for your explanation







Get them, I have 3, just in case if I break them.., they are soooo GOOD


----------



## alamnp

Wgibson said:


> Don't have ZS10 pro, but I agree (personally I think there is significant improvement from ZSX or C12 to ZAX, step up not to the side) but yes, wait for the sales. If you're reading this thread the ZAX should be on your short list.
> 
> Take the best qualities of ZSX (air, soundstage) and C12 (engaging V, no sibilance) both have a good low end, improve the mids a bit, a bit easier to drive, and you've got the ZAX. Fit is closer to the C12, personally I like the ZSX fit but that depends on your ears.








ZAX Is the glorified ZS10 Pro


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

alamnp said:


> Get them, I have 3, just in case if I break them.., they are soooo GOOD


Wow you must really like them to have 3 pair. The most I ever had for same hp or iem was 2 and it was different color lol


----------



## PhonoPhi

alamnp said:


> ZAX Is the glorified ZS10 Pro


CA16 is the glorified C10.

Both ZAX and CA16 are 16-driver hybrids compared to 10-driver C10 and ZS10 pro.

I have spent 2 last days with ZAX. I like ZAX more overall than CA16.
CA16 have a lot of great features, and great IEM overall, but the dampened treble is often too much for me, it feels suffocated (even with pure silver cables, I've tried three...)


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> CA16 is the glorified C10.
> 
> Both ZAX and CA16 are 16-driver hybrids compared to 10-driver C10 and ZS10 pro.
> 
> ...



I wish I could handle the shrills from ZAX.... I am treble sensitive. 

Have you tried Spinfit CP800? it extends the treble in CA16. 

i used Comply Foam for ZAX to tone done the treble, but it is so uncomfortable


----------



## Damz87

Got the ZAX last week to see if it can replace my ZSX. I think it’s a pretty nice upgrade over the ZSX. To my ears, It has better clarity and energy in the treble, less veiled mids, and better bass texture (I found the ZSX to be quite blunt and one-noted). The soundstage is slightly broader and more 3D. It’s detail retrieval is quite a step up too.

Overall, I’m very happy with the upgrade


----------



## DynamicEars

Damz87 said:


> Got the ZAX last week to see if it can replace my ZSX. I think it’s a pretty nice upgrade over the ZSX. To my ears, It has better clarity and energy in the treble, less veiled mids, and better bass texture (I found the ZSX to be quite blunt and one-noted). The soundstage is slightly broader and more 3D. It’s detail retrieval is quite a step up too.
> 
> Overall, I’m very happy with the upgrade



said a guy with Odin and Z1R.. thanks for chime in!


----------



## Viber

From reading this thread, it seems like KZ took the ZSX\ZS10 pro and added more BAs for a boost in the 4k-12k region (??) while making it semi open like the ZS6.
And now high-mids and Treble sensitive people are in dispute with people who's hearing is less sensitive.


Person A: This is too harsh and shrill.
Person B: ZAX has More resolution, more details in the sound,more clarity,more energetic treble and more soundstage.

I think that by now, this tells us who should buy the ZAX and who shouldn't.


----------



## Damz87

Viber said:


> From reading this thread, it seems like KZ took the ZSX\ZS10 pro and added more BAs for a boost in the 4k-12k region (??) while making it semi open like the ZS6.
> And now high-mids and Treble sensitive people are in dispute with people who's hearing is less sensitive.
> 
> 
> ...



I should add to my impressions that I listen at very low volume (30/120 on my Sony A105 DAP) so I can imagine the treble being quite piercing for people that like to crank it up.


----------



## richario

purplesun said:


> If you like AS10 sound signature, C10 may come across being too lean. The C10 needs a strong source to get it to sing; balanced & extended FR. You can also play around with C10's pressure vents to beef up bass/low mids. I wonder how many of us are still hooked to AS10 sound?


Still my go to, nothing else I've tried satisfies! Ruined me for dynamic bass, yet few other BA's hit with such authority! Paired with TRN BT20s, have 2 sets of these. Waiting on the BT20s pro and KZ ASF10 to see if lightning can strike twice!


----------



## lgcubana

Viber said:


> From reading this thread, it seems like KZ took the ZSX\ZS10 pro and added more BAs for a boost in the 4k-12k region (??) while making it semi open like the ZS6.
> And now high-mids and Treble sensitive people are in dispute with people who's hearing is less sensitive.
> 
> 
> ...


I’m not up on the BA cocktail of the ZAX, but it was our resident oracle’s observation that the ZAX was using a PEK/PEEK DD that caught my interest.  The fact that early buyers confirmed the mesh (behind the faceplate) was real, is gravy.


----------



## IEMusic

I really want to know how the ASX and ASF sound like.  An “affordable” all-BA IEM, if implemented well, could be a great addition.


----------



## baskingshark

IEMusic said:


> I really want to know how the ASX and ASF sound like.  An “affordable” all-BA IEM, if implemented well, could be a great addition.



Would be interested to hear reviews about these KZs yes.

So far I've tried a few all BA CHIFI sets in addition to some midfi Westones. Wouldn't recommend the Westones nowadays as the CHIFI beat them in performance for a fraction of the price. Well in general these pure multi BAs (without DD bass) have good technical performance. But most of them have BA bass, which means lesser subbass extension and less bass movement of air. So the bass sounds a bit unnatural coming from a DD bass. On the flip side, the BA bass tends to be faster than DD bass, so a few metalhead friends of mine like BA bass for the speed and accuracy. I don't listen to metal, so can't verify this, but I do like the pure multi BAs for stage monitoring in view of their better isolation (not vented in general) and good technicalities they bring to the table.

*TRN BA5 (5 BA) *has moisture condensation issues that cause intermittent cut out of sound when it gets humid eg long listening sessions in the ear. Pity cause the sound is quite good for the price. I can't recommend it as such due to the infamous TRN QC, but I heard newer batches had the moisture problem fix, maybe the rest can advise.

*TRN BA8 is a 8 BA* set, just released, too shouty in the upper mids/lower treble for me, despite the good technicalities. Supposed to be a successor of the aforementioned TRN BA5. They launched the BA8 at $140 USD, I think it dropped a bit to $130 after the initial reception wasn't the best. It isn't the worst sounding set, but at $130 it is a hard pass, u can get some gems like the Fiio FH3, TRI I3, some ThieAudio stuff at that price, and I think only trebleheads will like it.

*Hisenior B5+ is a 5 BA* knowles set at a rather affordable $70ish USD. Above average technical performance, midcentric set (which is rather rare tuning wise). Not all rounder due to the tuning (lacks subbass extension and treble extension but it is good for vocals/acoustic stuff. Soundstage is below average but isolation is good. My backup set for stage monitoring.

*Audiosense T800 is a 8 knowles BA* set. Mild V shaped, excellent technicalities and 30 dB isolation. My go to for transit and stage monitoring, though it is bright, so not the best for treble sensitive folk, unless u wanna play with tips, sources, knowles filters. It has a vented subwoofer BA that makes it sound like a DD bass, so very atypical for BA bass.


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## Viber

lgcubana said:


> I’m not up on the BA cocktail of the ZAX, but it was our resident oracle’s observation that the ZAX was using a PEK/PEEK DD that caught my interest.  The fact that early buyers confirmed the mesh (behind the faceplate) was real, is gravy.



Upvoted for the term " BA cocktail "


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## Viber

A question for KZ fans with some TWS experience:

What would be a better investment:  ZSX\ZS10 pro\ASF(?) + TRN BT20 adapter   OR  a highly regarded TWS set like Fiil F1XS ?


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## baskingshark

Viber said:


> A question for KZ fans with some TWS experience:
> 
> What would be a better investment:  ZSX\ZS10 pro\ASF(?) + TRN BT20 adapter   OR  a highly regarded TWS set like Fiil F1XS ?



Definitely option 1 for me (BT adapter with IEM). For a few reasons:
1) Better sound quality than real TWS.
2) Preserves the sound signature of the IEM u are familiar with.
3) Even if BT tech is outdated, you can reuse the IEM and get a new dongle.
4) TWS sets will sooner or later have less battery life with repeated charge cycles and like point 3, at least u can reuse the IEM and find a new BT adapter.

YMMV as usual.


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## PhonoPhi

alamnp said:


> I wish I could handle the shrills from ZAX.... I am treble sensitive.
> 
> Have you tried Spinfit CP800? it extends the treble in CA16.
> 
> i used Comply Foam for ZAX to tone done the treble, but it is so uncomfortable


Very good points.

Tips can make a huge difference for fit, seal and tuning.

I do have my "drawer" of tips. 

Having some technical experience with woodwind acoustic, especially clarinet barrels (talk about weird collections...), my preferred way way with the tips is to restrict minimally at the tips using wide bores, such as Spiral dots and similar.

I found for the narrow tip bores, the insertion depth starts to matter more (what is observed in measurements with couplers), so it is more sensitive in how it works.

Foam tips do not bode well with me.

Listening volumes also matter, as it was noted here.
I listen at low volumes, so treble is more tolerable (the Fletcher–Munson curves) and ZAX is more preferable to CA16.
At higher volumes it can be reversed. (My model case is Final E3000 - at my usual listening volumes, it is all about midbass... But then trying higher volumes, I can at least appreciate what others like about E3000 )

CA16 is definitely appreciably dampened by some filters based on its sensitivity values compared to ZAX and other KZ/CCA.

If treble is too much, it is always possible to dampen it with different foams - this site is a great resource for a practical advice on such DIY projects.

Dampening to your tastes is always easiee than to " undampen", IMO.


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## voicemaster

Viber said:


> A question for KZ fans with some TWS experience:
> 
> What would be a better investment:  ZSX\ZS10 pro\ASF(?) + TRN BT20 adapter   OR  a highly regarded TWS set like Fiil F1XS ?


The zax, zsx, zs10pro + bt20s will be better sound wise. With the pro version, the features and connection is more of a tws than the previous model.


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## Viber

baskingshark said:


> Definitely option 1 for me (BT adapter with IEM). For a few reasons:
> 1) Better sound quality than real TWS.
> 2) Preserves the sound signature of the IEM u are familiar with.
> 3) Even if BT tech is outdated, you can reuse the IEM and get a new dongle.
> ...



Thanks, but notice ive talked about TRN BT20 and not the KZ BT adapter (with the cable).


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## Viber

voicemaster said:


> The zax, zsx, zs10pro + bt20s will be better sound wise. With the pro version, the features and connection is more of a tws than the previous model.



The BT20 pro price is almost triple that of the original BT20.
Your answer was what i already guessed.  All those TWS under 50$ don't look like they can compete with multi BA KZs.


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## voicemaster (Oct 4, 2020)

Viber said:


> The BT20 pro price is almost triple that of the original BT20.
> Your answer was what i already guessed.  All those TWS under 50$ don't look like they can compete with multi BA KZs.


Even the $100+ tws can't compete with real IEM like ZSX/ZAX, but they do sound good. My favorite is Nuarl N6pro which is around $160 and it is considered as one of top tier for sound quality in TWS world, despite that, still can't beat ZS10 pro in sound department. I mean for portable use (in train, subway, bus, metro walkway, etc) you can't hear all the details from high end IEM anyway. That is why I use my Samsung GBuds live for outdoor and ZAX + bt20s pro at home.
Even with ZAX that cost me $70 on amazon (if you want fast delivery, it is cheaper from Ali at $58) and trn bt20s pro at $80 at amazon (again cheaper on Ali), this combo still cost me less than the Nuarl N6p.


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## Keputs

voicemaster said:


> The zax, zsx, zs10pro + bt20s will be better sound wise. With the pro version, the features and connection is more of a tws than the previous model.


Are these both the trn bt20S? For the zsx/zax should it be the 0.75 or 0.78? Just wanna make sure. And do you recommend them?


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## astermk

Can anybody compare their ZAX to IEMs popular in the $100-150 bracket like the Moondrop Starfield, Tin P1 etc.?


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## voicemaster

Keputs said:


> Are these both the trn bt20S? For the zsx/zax should it be the 0.75 or 0.78? Just wanna make sure. And do you recommend them?


Both are the trn bt20s PRO. For the ZSX/ZAX, buy the .75mm-S 2pin connector. If you see in my picture, the matte black one has the regular 2pin connector where the silver one has the S 2pin connector which cover the whole plastic part of the ZAX. It is more secure and less risk of cracking those plastic part on the 2pin connector. 
Here is the model if you order in Ali:


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## Keputs

voicemaster said:


> Both are the trn bt20s PRO. For the ZSX/ZAX, buy the .75mm-S 2pin connector. If you see in my picture, the matte black one has the regular 2pin connector where the silver one has the S 2pin connector which cover the whole plastic part of the ZAX. It is more secure and less risk of cracking those plastic part on the 2pin connector.
> Here is the model if you order in Ali:


Got it and thanks!


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## Sebulr

For what's its worth, tws are more comfortable than a trn bt20 and an iem especially if you wear glasses and a mask. I use tws sets far more than my trn bt20, which is almost pemantly attached to a an iem that cannot be named here. I think all but the new ones would damage the kz type c connectors too. Which is a consideration.


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## Freetrademan

courierdriver said:


> They are in my Aliexpress cart. Just waiting for the 11/11 sale to snag this set. Thanks for your comments and recommendations. I think I'm in!



AliExpress takes forever. I bought them from LINSOUL and they were at my door in 9 days.


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## NeonHD

voicemaster said:


> The zax, zsx, zs10pro + bt20s will be better sound wise. With the pro version, the features and connection is more of a tws than the previous model.



Nice to see you got the pro version. Just ordered mines a week ago, though I wish I had waited it out a bit more as right after buying it for CAD $74, another listing brought it down to $60 with coupons. 

I've owned like 5 pairs of BT20/BT20S, and each pair ended up breaking eventually at the connector. Hopefully the Pro can fix this, as it now features detachable connectors. 

Literally cannot live without a bluetooth adapter, it just takes my TOTL IEMs to the next level.


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## NeonHD

Sebulr said:


> For what's its worth, tws are more comfortable than a trn bt20 and an iem especially if you wear glasses and a mask. I use tws sets far more than my trn bt20, which is almost pemantly attached to a an iem that cannot be named here. I think all but the new ones would damage the kz type c connectors too. Which is a consideration.



It may be more comfortable, but I've heard that TWS earbuds (the ones without any sort of stem or hook) are more prone to falling out of some people's ears.


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## alamnp

Thanks, I just ordered BTS20 Pro from TRN global store, they have $10 off, bring the total down to $60.

I also got a pure silver cable from TRN and the new TRN V90s, damn it... gotta stop this binge buy...... I guess that's fine, Xmas is coming anyway.


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## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Even the $100+ tws can't compete with real IEM like ZSX/ZAX, but they do sound good. My favorite is Nuarl N6pro which is around $160 and it is considered as one of top tier for sound quality in TWS world, despite that, still can't beat ZS10 pro in sound department. I mean for portable use (in train, subway, bus, metro walkway, etc) you can't hear all the details from high end IEM anyway. That is why I use my Samsung GBuds live for outdoor and ZAX + bt20s pro at home.
> Even with ZAX that cost me $70 on amazon (if you want fast delivery, it is cheaper from Ali at $58) and trn bt20s pro at $80 at amazon (again cheaper on Ali), this combo still cost me less than the Nuarl N6p.




Wow, i feel like this post saved me time,money and future disappointment! thanks.

I'm suppose to get the "Alien Secret Predator QCC010" soon, those got 5/5 ratings by Scarbir.  I think those things will give me a baseline of what to expect from U/50$  TWS and i will go from there.

Please remember me if you get the Fiil T1XS\ T1Pro.  I would like to know how those stack up against KZ.


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## Viber (Oct 4, 2020)

Sebulr said:


> For what's its worth, tws are more comfortable than a trn bt20 and an iem especially if you wear glasses and a mask. I use tws sets far more than my trn bt20, which is almost pemantly attached to a an iem that cannot be named here. I think all but the new ones would damage the kz type c connectors too. Which is a consideration.



With glasses and a mask you can just use the regular BT adapter with the cable and peel off that STUPID "memory" metal and rubber they attach to behind the ears part of the cable.


_________________________________________________________________________



Isn't the Fiio UTWS1 a better product than TRN BT20s Pro? or will it not fit KZ IEMS ??


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## Sebulr

Viber said:


> With glasses and a mask you can just use the regular BT adapter with the cable and peel off that STUPID "memory" metal and rubber they attach to behind the ears part of the cable.
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> ...


Yeah I've done that.

I've only used the bt20 non s. But I think the fiio one has apt-x and longer battery life. The bt 20 s has apt X I think


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## PhonoPhi

richario said:


> Still my go to, nothing else I've tried satisfies! Ruined me for dynamic bass, yet few other BA's hit with such authority! Paired with TRN BT20s, have 2 sets of these. Waiting on the BT20s pro and KZ ASF10 to see if lightning can strike twice!


So true!

AS10 are very special and were one of the major IEM revelations for me.

After this BA bass, DDs sound different.


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## revand

moisespr123 said:


> While this may be true, I feel the ZAX has a more bolder sound. It also removes the metallic sound the ZSX may have on some tracks and the bass is a bit better. Overall I'm enjoying the ZAX more than their previous IEMs.



What about comfort of ZaX? ZSX's sound was excellent for me, but the body is simply too big and the nozzle is too long.
Even using Comply Comfort the comfort was far from perfect.
Comparing the comfort of the ZSX and ZAX is the ZAX better?


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## purplesun

richario said:


> Still my go to, nothing else I've tried satisfies! Ruined me for dynamic bass, yet few other BA's hit with such authority! Paired with TRN BT20s, have 2 sets of these. Waiting on the BT20s pro and KZ ASF10 to see if lightning can strike twice!


Quite honestly, I think AS10 was a "mistake" by KZ - a good mistake! AFAIK, nothing in the product range by KZ/CCA sounds anything like it. Except for its lower-bass performance, it sounds very much like well-tuned DD. Btw, this IEM seems to be quite cable sensitive; I recently discovered the basic KZ silver-plated cable brings out some of the missing mid-treble sounds. It still won't satisfy the typical KZ treblehead fan but, IMO, makes the AS10 sound more balanced while retaining it's performance in the bass/mid regions.


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## Mouseman

revand said:


> What about comfort of ZaX? ZSX's sound was excellent for me, but the body is simply too big and the nozzle is too long.
> Even using Comply Comfort the comfort was far from perfect.
> Comparing the comfort of the ZSX and ZAX is the ZAX better?


Yes. I find them to be considerably more comfortable than the ZSX. A lot closer to the ZS10 Pro, albeit thicker/taller. But I can still lay down with them in. The ZSX had that bump which helped them stay in, but it created a hot spot for me after a few hours. I'm not sure about the nozzle length. I'll have to check.


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## voicemaster

revand said:


> What about comfort of ZaX? ZSX's sound was excellent for me, but the body is simply too big and the nozzle is too long.
> Even using Comply Comfort the comfort was far from perfect.
> Comparing the comfort of the ZSX and ZAX is the ZAX better?


If you have ZS10 Pro or CCA C10, the ZAX has similar body style as those two. It is much easier to fit for most people than the ZSX.


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## voicemaster

Sebulr said:


> For what's its worth, tws are more comfortable than a trn bt20 and an iem especially if you wear glasses and a mask. I use tws sets far more than my trn bt20, which is almost pemantly attached to a an iem that cannot be named here. I think all but the new ones would damage the kz type c connectors too. Which is a consideration.


That's why I use my samsung galaxy buds live (the Beans) for outdoor/work while I am using the bt20s pro at home mostly connected to my PC. 
It is just a hassle when you want to take off the mask because most of the time the earband will hook up to the body of the pro. Glasses has never been an iissue for me when using the bt20s pro.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Wow, i feel like this post saved me time,money and future disappointment! thanks.
> 
> I'm suppose to get the "Alien Secret Predator QCC010" soon, those got 5/5 ratings by Scarbir.  I think those things will give me a baseline of what to expect from U/50$  TWS and i will go from there.
> 
> Please remember me if you get the Fiil T1XS\ T1Pro.  I would like to know how those stack up against KZ.


I have the T1X and it sounds about the same level as ZSN pro. I heard the XS and pro has better sound than the X. It is a really nice sounding tws imho.


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## ChoppedBroccoli

revand said:


> What about comfort of ZaX? ZSX's sound was excellent for me, but the body is simply too big and the nozzle is too long.
> Even using Comply Comfort the comfort was far from perfect.
> Comparing the comfort of the ZSX and ZAX is the ZAX better?




I found the ZAX to be pretty comfortable. Lightweight and the stock large size tips gave me a good seal at medium insertion depth (didn't need to jam them in my ears). Seems like they would stick in even while moving/light exercise.


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## ChoppedBroccoli

baskingshark said:


> Definitely option 1 for me (BT adapter with IEM). For a few reasons:
> 1) Better sound quality than real TWS.
> 2) Preserves the sound signature of the IEM u are familiar with.
> 3) Even if BT tech is outdated, you can reuse the IEM and get a new dongle.
> ...



Yeah if I were to do TWS style, I would do something like the TRNBT20. These little ear batteries are so small that once they start losing capacity they will be useless quick.


Personally, I went with the Fiio LC-BT2 neckband + Fiio FH3 for my desk because it has ridiculous ~20hr battery, a more than decent microphone for work calls, and nice amping power.

For on the go, I use a Fiio uBTR (SUPER lightweight with about 8hrs battery) with the Shozy Form 1.1 and will very shortly be getting a short run cable like this : https://store.hiby.com/products/3-5mm-short-cable


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## ChoppedBroccoli

unifutomaki said:


> Flat and KZ don't go together. You may want to look into models like the CVJ CS8/CSN, HZSound Heart Mirror, TinHiFi T2/T2+ and Moondrop SSR if you're looking for a flat-ish signature on a budget.



Personally I found the ZAX more neutralish, bright, and airy than the Tin T2+. Can't comment on the Tin T2


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## chinmie

Viber said:


> Wow, i feel like this post saved me time,money and future disappointment! thanks.
> 
> I'm suppose to get the "Alien Secret Predator QCC010" soon, those got 5/5 ratings by Scarbir.  I think those things will give me a baseline of what to expect from U/50$  TWS and i will go from there.
> 
> Please remember me if you get the Fiil T1XS\ T1Pro.  I would like to know how those stack up against KZ.



it's not really that clean cut, at least for me. SQ is a really subjective thing from what i see on this forum. so for me there are times that i even enjoy the sound of my TWS than wired/BT20Pro IEMs, sometimes I enjoy a particular cheaper TWS compared to the Sony XM3s or the sound of MH755 compared to my more expensive earphones..heck, even in some situations i prefer to use my cheaper TWS compared to using wired earphones... well, you get the idea. 

so from me, if you're deciding between full TWS or the BT20S combo, it's more of the scenario that you're going to use it, also the features that you need for that particular situation: 
-do you have an IEM that you like and want to turn into bluetooth? then go with the BT20/S/pro
-do you need IPX rating, ambient/ANC, smaller case, using it for sleeping, etc? find a TWS that have it


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## BKChelly

Just got the ZAX and I’ll have to play with them a bit more and change the cable too but right out of the box they’re nothing like the ZS10 Pro, which are my former pair. They’re both different. And It’s going to come down to preference. These are airy and quite open. It can take some getting used to. 
Details are amazing, I can hear those fine details in songs I listen to daily that I didn’t with the ZS10 Pro. Bass is definitely more prominent on the ZAX but it’s just not doing anything for me.  It’s lacking that punch im used to.
Rap/Hip hop sounds good with these. But EDM was lacking.
Now vocals...sound horrible. IMO. whether it’s male or female. vocals sound like they’re pushed to the back, while the instruments take the lead on all the songs. I’m going to change the cables tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. But all in all, the ZAX aren’t bad, just nothing special. You're better off waiting to see what else KZ releases.


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## voicemaster

BKChelly said:


> Just got the ZAX and I’ll have to play with them a bit more and change the cable too but right out of the box they’re nothing like the ZS10 Pro, which are my former pair. They’re both different. And It’s going to come down to preference. These are airy and quite open. It can take some getting used to.
> Details are amazing, I can hear those fine details in songs I listen to daily that I didn’t with the ZS10 Pro. Bass is definitely more prominent on the ZAX but it’s just not doing anything for me.  It’s lacking that punch im used to.
> Rap/Hip hop sounds good with these. But EDM was lacking.
> Now vocals...sound horrible. IMO. whether it’s male or female. vocals sound like they’re pushed to the back, while the instruments take the lead on all the songs. I’m going to change the cables tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. But all in all, the ZAX aren’t bad, just nothing special. You're better off waiting to see what else KZ releases.


The ZAX is kinda different than other KZ I've tried. The bass usually tamed down after some hours, but the ZAX actually got more punchy with time (it might be my ears has adjust to its bass). I am quite surprise that the vocal is pushed back because when I first got it, the vocal is the one that stands out to me.


----------



## unifutomaki

BKChelly said:


> Now vocals...sound horrible. IMO. whether it’s male or female. vocals sound like they’re pushed to the back, while the instruments take the lead on all the songs.



Well that's just strange. Instruments are the most prominent in the mix, yes, but I wouldn't call vocals overly recessed; even on tracks where there's a lot going on, vocals are always perhaps just a step back from the drums and guitars for me.


----------



## BKChelly

voicemaster said:


> The ZAX is kinda different than other KZ I've tried. The bass usually tamed down after some hours, but the ZAX actually got more punchy with time (it might be my ears has adjust to its bass). I am quite surprise that the vocal is pushed back because when I first got it, the vocal is the one that stands out to me.



Yea I don’t know why but the vocals aren’t making an impact. At least compared to what I’m used to. But maybe a few hours of listening will adjust everything. 
Everyone has a favorite pair of headphones, I think the ZS10 Pro are always going to be mine lol.


----------



## BKChelly

unifutomaki said:


> Well that's just strange. Instruments are the most prominent in the mix, yes, but I wouldn't call vocals overly recessed; even on tracks where there's a lot going on, vocals are always perhaps just a step back from the drums and guitars for me.


Agreed. Not overly pushed back but I can hear a noticeable difference compared to my other KZs.


----------



## axhng

Was contemplating on whether I should replace the batteries in the Z1 since battery life has degraded to the point where it's no longer useful for me. I do like how they fit and how fun they sound, so thought it would be a shame to just chuck them away. Decided to go the other route instead and convert it to wired. Had a pair of QKZ VK4 with channel imbalance so took the 2pin connector from that and used it on the Z1 instead. Worked out pretty well. Sound signature I can't say for sure since it has been a while since I listened to them in TWS form, and I kinda forgot to compare it before I converted both sides. But I think it is mostly similar with perhaps slightly less bass and leaner sounding lower mids? haha.











Spoiler


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## enri

My ZS5 v1 lose bass (around 40Hz range) in the left side. Is there any quick fix without opening it up? If it needs to be open, could it be an easy fix?

I am not sure if it is because I drop it to  plastic floor at few days ago when replacing cables, or yesterday I use KZ Starline tips the air pressure kills it, it have some "eee" sound when I plug in and again some "eee" remove it within 5 mins of listening.

Do the ZS5 v2 sound similar?

Or it is time to move on to ZAX?

Thanks


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## voicemaster

enri said:


> My ZS5 v1 lose bass (around 40Hz range) in the left side. Is there any quick fix without opening it up? If it needs to be open, could it be an easy fix?
> 
> I am not sure if it is because I drop it to  plastic floor at few days ago when replacing cables, or yesterday I use KZ Starline tips the air pressure kills it, it have some "eee" sound when I plug in and again some "eee" remove it within 5 mins of listening.
> 
> ...


Lets go!!


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

What about the ca16 compared to tin t2?


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## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Lets go!!



I agreed with voicemaster, I decided to keep ZAX, now mostly I am listening with ZAX with low volume. I used to crank my music up... Now, I really appreciate ZAX, on low volume, the clarity is superb, airiness, it's just pleasant to listen to, but if I want to crank it up, thumping it down, I have to change my IEM. 

also got TRN BTS20 Pro, hopefully, it will not be too long in shipment.

Sigh, I thought I could just have one good all rounder IEM... that's not possible... , also waiting the new TRN V90s, hopefully much better than BA5


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## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> Very good points.
> 
> Tips can make a huge difference for fit, seal and tuning.
> 
> ...



thanks, I have done what you told me, NOW I appreciate ZAX more, at low volume... it's SUPERB, even with stock tip.I get rid the Comply, it hurts my ear and so uncomfortable.

However for Rock genres, thumping Hip Hop, I have to change my IEM. for Jazz, blues, ballad, classical... it's heavenly on low volume. 10/10


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## ChoppedBroccoli (Oct 6, 2020)

alamnp said:


> I agreed with voicemaster, I decided to keep ZAX, now mostly I am listening with ZAX with low volume. I used to crank my music up... Now, I really appreciate ZAX, on low volume, the clarity is superb, airiness, it's just pleasant to listen to, but if I want to crank it up, thumping it down, I have to change my IEM.
> 
> also got TRN BTS20 Pro, hopefully, it will not be too long in shipment.
> 
> Sigh, I thought I could just have one good all rounder IEM... that's not possible... , also waiting the new TRN V90s, hopefully much better than BA5



I'm sticking with my Shozy Form 1.1 over the ZAX, but I had 100% the same feeling and this is an important distinction. I REALLY liked the ZAX for lower volume listening (music and podcasts too).

I was thinking this earlier, but personally I think it would be really cool if an EQ adjusted based on volume (either in software or in HW via DAP). Does this exist and I just don't know it?


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## alamnp

try this one for ZAX at low volume versus any other IEM, it will tell you how good ZAX is. I AM AMAZED


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## Viber

alamnp said:


> thanks, I have done what you told me, NOW I appreciate ZAX more, at low volume... it's SUPERB, even with stock tip.I get rid the Comply, it hurts my ear and so uncomfortable.
> 
> However for Rock genres, thumping Hip Hop, I have to change my IEM. for Jazz, blues, ballad, classical... it's heavenly on low volume. 10/10



Why low volume? just use gentle EQ and enjoy your product.


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## alamnp (Oct 5, 2020)

how I moded my ZS10 Pro to match ZAX sound profile minus the airiness.

very close to. i still think ZAX more like a side upgrade. ZS10 Pro can be like ZAX with a bit effort in modification, with molded silicone that I made, it dampen the treble and clarify the forward a bit more if you see it by making the nozzle smaller.

i thought the same principle will work here from CP800. And it is exactly right, it improves the sound profile by much. But if you have extra $20, please just buy the ZAX, time spent modding it more than $20...

ZAX with all stock cable and tips, already good.


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> Why low volume? just use gentle EQ and enjoy your product.



not sure, no matter how many times I played with treble EQ, it never sounded good at all


----------



## courierdriver

BKChelly said:


> Yea I don’t know why but the vocals aren’t making an impact. At least compared to what I’m used to. But maybe a few hours of listening will adjust everything.
> Everyone has a favorite pair of headphones, I think the ZS10 Pro are always going to be mine lol.


+1 for the ZS10 PRO.


----------



## alamnp

courierdriver said:


> +1 for the ZS10 PRO.



Now anybody follow TFZ? They come up with TFZ LIVE 3, wonder if it is the same like LIVE 1


----------



## alamnp

courierdriver said:


> +1 for the ZS10 PRO.



btw different sources will produce different sounds too. Not sure why. On my work lappy, all IEM sounded... ehhh. But on my gaming computer, iphone sounded the best


----------



## courierdriver

alamnp said:


> Now anybody follow TFZ? They come up with TFZ LIVE 3, wonder if it is the same like LIVE 1


Only TFZ I've got is No.3. Love that set now; after many hours of burn in and 3 cable swaps. Bass is now controlled yet still impactful, using a pure silver cable. The original darkness that I originally found with the No.3 is now gone. With time, it's become a much better earphone. It's neck in neck with my ZS10 PRO now. With bass dominated music like Rap or Reggae, it surpasses the ZS10 PRO. But with almost everything else, the ZS10 PRO is still my favorite. I do need to mention though, that I use EQ on ALL my iems.


----------



## BKChelly

courierdriver said:


> +1 for the ZS10 PRO.



👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Anyone ever compared kz lineup to the tin t2?


----------



## NeonHD

My fifth pair of KZ ED9, ready to be MMCX modded 

Just need to figure out whether I need to use a dremel bit to widen the hole, as I only got drill bits.


----------



## Mouseman

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Anyone ever compared kz lineup to the tin t2?


I have tons of KZs and the OG T2. The Tins never really grabbed me in terms of SQ, although I've heard some of the newer models are good. The shape is also really uncomfortable for my ears. I know they have their fans and were the flavor of the day for a bit, but they're in a case somewhere. I listen to different KZs pretty much every day and enjoy them.


----------



## Slater

NeonHD said:


> My fifth pair of KZ ED9, ready to be MMCX modded
> 
> Just need to figure out whether I need to use a dremel bit to widen the hole, as I only got drill bits.



Is that your dog?


----------



## alamnp

NeonHD said:


> My fifth pair of KZ ED9, ready to be MMCX modded
> 
> Just need to figure out whether I need to use a dremel bit to widen the hole, as I only got drill bits.



wow... im interested... I tried everything to extend the treble to no luck... sounded mudded well after I heard CA16 and ZAX that is


----------



## NeonHD

alamnp said:


> wow... im interested... I tried everything to extend the treble to no luck... sounded mudded well after I heard CA16 and ZAX that is



Are you using the gold filters? Always use the bronze filters for best treble extension, in fact I'd just trash the gold filters, they ruin the ED9's beautiful dynamic sound.  

If bronze filters are too bass lacking, stick micropore tape on the vents, it will help boost the low-end by a modest amount.

And also use KZ starline tips, to me they help increase the treble. 

I love the ED9 mostly for its airy upper treble.


----------



## NeonHD

Slater said:


> Is that your dog?



Haha it's a small fur rug I bought for the sole purpose of taking photos


----------



## alamnp

NeonHD said:


> Are you using the gold filters? Always use the bronze filters for best treble extension, in fact I'd just trash the gold filters, they ruin the ED9's beautiful dynamic sound.
> 
> If bronze filters are too bass lacking, stick micropore tape on the vents, it will help boost the low-end by a modest amount.
> 
> ...



ughhh... still not enough I guess... CA16 and ZAX really opens a can of worm... I wonder if we can do something about extending the treble, by drilling here and there... lol


----------



## NeonHD

alamnp said:


> ughhh... still not enough I guess... CA16 and ZAX really opens a can of worm... I wonder if we can do something about extending the treble, by drilling here and there... lol



Really? Because the majority of people I've talked to actually find the ED9's treble to be too much with the bronze filters. I think you probably just prefer a different treble tuning style.


----------



## alamnp

NeonHD said:


> Really? Because the majority of people I've talked to actually find the ED9's treble to be too much with the bronze filters. I think you probably just prefer a different treble tuning style.



actually the best sound for me, was the gold filter, with comply sport pro medium size. Not sure why, it improves the bass and also make the treble more detailed and not muffled.

but I agree this ear piece with the correct tips and filter... worth pass their price by 2-3x.


----------



## alamnp

i have to remind myself not to compare it with ZAX or CA16


----------



## chinmie

I'm wondering, does anyone here has both the ZAX and KBear Tri i3? if price is not a factor, how do they both compare?


----------



## alamnp (Oct 6, 2020)

chinmie said:


> I'm wondering, does anyone here has both the ZAX and KBear Tri i3? if price is not a factor, how do they both compare?



get kbear... no question ask... different class altogether.

but if you are going to listen via your iphone or android... don't... lol need a good DAP like FIIO, you will end up forking $400, $150 for the IEM and $250 for a good amp or DAP


----------



## chinmie

alamnp said:


> get kbear... no question ask... different class altogether.
> 
> but if you are going to listen via your iphone or android... don't... lol need a good DAP like FIIO, you will end up forking $400, $150 for the IEM and $250 for a good amp or DAP



would you care to describe the difference in sound?


----------



## slex

chinmie said:


> I'm wondering, does anyone here has both the ZAX and KBear Tri i3? if price is not a factor, how do they both compare?


 I went audition Tri i3 against my current ZAX.

Mids are tad better in Tri i3. To my ears KAX are more coherent.
Tri i3 are huge compared to KAX, it potrude out of my ear.

Since i3 is almost a year old product, I dun warrant spending twice the amount of money against ZAX.

P.S. My TRN BA8 is on par in the mids area against i3


----------



## alamnp

slex said:


> I went audition Tri i3 against my current ZAX.
> 
> Mids are tad better in Tri i3. To my ears KAX are more coherent.
> Tri i3 are huge compared to KAX, it potrude out of my ear.
> ...





slex said:


> I went audition Tri i3 against my current ZAX.
> 
> Mids are tad better in Tri i3. To my ears KAX are more coherent.
> Tri i3 are huge compared to KAX, it potrude out of my ear.
> ...



keep your ZAX, does not warrant $400 for 9% better sounds...


----------



## slex

alamnp said:


> keep your ZAX, does not warrant $400 for 9% better sounds...


Yes it a keeper, $400? I could get i3 for $110 now ,my Zax are $53😄


----------



## astermk (Oct 7, 2020)

alamnp said:


> get kbear... no question ask... different class altogether.
> 
> but if you are going to listen via your iphone or android... don't... lol need a good DAP like FIIO, you will end up forking $400, $150 for the IEM and $250 for a good amp or DAP


The Topping NX4 DSD (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sd-dac-and-portable-headphone-amplifier.3507/) absolutely murders anything portable by FiiO under $300 in both the DAC and the amp section (except the FiiO K5 Pro which has a monstrous amp but its DAC measures very poorly and it's also stritctly a desktop product), and is only like $140 right now. It's not a DAP though, just a DAC/amp combo. I don't understand why people recommend FiiO, the performance just isn't there in the price range. Products like the Q1 Mk II and the K3 are a little cheaper than the NX4 DSD, sure, but the NX4 DSD has like 15dB higher SINAD and outputs literally 5x more power on a 300 Ohm load. It's silly.


----------



## seanwee

astermk said:


> The Topping NX4 DSD (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sd-dac-and-portable-headphone-amplifier.3507/) absolutely murders anything portable by FiiO under $300 in both the DAC and the amp section (except the FiiO K5 Pro which has a monstrous amp but its DAC measures very poorly and it's also stritctly a desktop product), and is only like $140 right now. It's not a DAP though, just a DAC/amp combo. I don't understand why people recommend FiiO, the performance just isn't there in the price range. Products like the Q1 Mk II and the K3 are a little cheaper than the NX4 DSD, sure, but the NX4 DSD has like 15dB higher SINAD and outputs literally 5x more power on a 300 Ohm load. It's silly.


I've use it for a while before. Sound wise its in the same class as the N5ii but a bit more neutral.


----------



## lgcubana (Oct 7, 2020)

chinmie said:


> I'm wondering, does anyone here has both the ZAX and KBear Tri i3? if price is not a factor, how do they both compare?





alamnp said:


> get kbear... no question ask... different class altogether.
> 
> but if you are going to listen via your iphone or android... don't... lol need a good DAP like FIIO, you will end up forking $400, $150 for the IEM and $250 for a good amp or DAP







Is it fair to compare a $55 USD IEM to a $145 USD ($190 w/cable) IEM ?
Not really. I realize there’s a never ending search for a sub $50/$100 offering that can compete well, above it’s price tier. But how many times does that really happen ?

For my comparison:
$57 ZAX, connected a TRN 16 core, balanced 2.5mm
$145 i3, connected to the _KB Ear __4 Core 5N UPOCC_.  _Once I find the right cable for an MMCX connection, I leave it alone_

Size and comfort:  nothing to argue, KZ ZAX

Summary: Yes the Tri i3 requires power to shine, but a BT amp for my phone is more than sufficient and the KZ ZAX benefits from the BT amp as well; they both take to EQ well. For this comparison I'll be using the *Qudelix-5K $130*.. The ZAX plays brighter, with a narrower soundstage (when compared to the i3). *The i3's planar driver makes any further comparison just cruel*. In my  opinion*, both sets are leaders for their respective tiers.*

Sub bass: i3 goes a little lower
Bass: ZAX punches a bit harder
Mids & male vocals: Planar, that's all that needs to be said
Upper: ZAX has more air; for the right set of ears, this a win for the ZAX
Soundstage: ZAX sounds pinched, vs. the expansiveness of the i3.  The i3 is notably wider and a discernable height bump.

Songs:
"Angel", Massive Attack: the sub bass is deeper, with a note of resonation, on the i3.
"Sexual Healing", Marvin Gay: the hand claps are artificially thin and overly bright on the ZAX; on the i3 they're more realistic
"Police in Helicopter", John Holt: this particular recording isn't the best (quality wise), which only highlights how much better it plays back on the i3. There's a richness  to the vocals and the bass (without being muddy/thick) that the ZAX just can't do.
"Big Poppa", The Notorious BIG:  P Diddy's backup "vocals" accentuates how much wider the soundstage is on the i3; as it sounds like he keeps popping up from around the corner.

Setup:
Samsung Note 20
Spotify Premium
_Qudelix-5K_

_I tried to eliminate the use of the EQ, but I didn't like either pair this way, so I used the stock "Deep" setting_


----------



## chinmie

lgcubana said:


> Is it fair to compare a $55 USD IEM to a $145 USD ($190 w/cable) IEM ?
> Not really. I realize there’s a never ending search for a sub $50/$100 offering that can compete well, above it’s price tier. But how many times does that really happen ?
> 
> For my comparison:
> ...



thanks for the thorough comparison  

for me personally, it's a fair game for comparing earphones even in different price levels, because i often found more expensive units that are just not worth it, but also budget one that excel and also ones that's also not worth buying even if it's cheap.

I'm curious about the i3 because my all time favorite set (the MT100) uses similar planar and BA setup as the i3 (minus the DD), and most who has it in this forums seems to like it. the ZAX also caught my attention because of the reviews here, but I'm worried that it may have similar sound/character as my T2+, making it a redundant buy.


----------



## alamnp

slex said:


> Yes it a keeper, $400? I could get i3 for $110 now ,my Zax are $53😄



for I3 You have to have DAPs, otherwise, it will sound like a tin can, that cost an upward $250


----------



## alamnp

chinmie said:


> thanks for the thorough comparison
> 
> for me personally, it's a fair game for comparing earphones even in different price levels, because i often found more expensive units that are just not worth it, but also budget one that excel and also ones that's also not worth buying even if it's cheap.
> 
> I'm curious about the i3 because my all time favorite set (the MT100) uses similar planar and BA setup as the i3 (minus the DD), and most who has it in this forums seems to like it. the ZAX also caught my attention because of the reviews here, but I'm worried that it may have similar sound/character as my T2+, making it a redundant buy.



ehmmm by far not the same at all with T2+


----------



## chinmie

alamnp said:


> ehmmm by far not the same at all with T2+



ZAX? in what way?


----------



## paulwasabii

lgcubana said:


> "Sexual Healing", Marvin Gay: the hand claps are artificially thin and overly bright on the ZAX; on the i3 they're more realistic



Those handclaps on the ZAX drive me a bit crazy.  If they just sounded thin/body-less it would be ok, but they pop out with brightness as you said.  Thanks for the comparison.


----------



## slex

alamnp said:


> for I3 You have to have DAPs, otherwise, it will sound like a tin can, that cost an upward $250


You got a point😄 but I knew that already from my headphones collection.


----------



## slex

chinmie said:


> ZAX? in what way?


I recently own T2plus, it's a fun pair with bass quantity emphasis. Zax is more fun with more definition and tighter lows and bass quality.


----------



## moisespr123

BKChelly said:


> Just got the ZAX and I’ll have to play with them a bit more and change the cable too but right out of the box they’re nothing like the ZS10 Pro, which are my former pair. They’re both different. And It’s going to come down to preference. These are airy and quite open. It can take some getting used to.
> Details are amazing, I can hear those fine details in songs I listen to daily that I didn’t with the ZS10 Pro. Bass is definitely more prominent on the ZAX but it’s just not doing anything for me.  It’s lacking that punch im used to.
> Rap/Hip hop sounds good with these. But EDM was lacking.
> Now vocals...sound horrible. IMO. whether it’s male or female. vocals sound like they’re pushed to the back, while the instruments take the lead on all the songs. I’m going to change the cables tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. But all in all, the ZAX aren’t bad, just nothing special. You're better off waiting to see what else KZ releases.



I agree with the vocal. They are left behind. They sound crisp, but the fact that they are not forward sometimes bothers me (Compared with the forwardness of the Hidizs MS4). But the thing that keeps me using the ZAX is the amount of detail it has over the Hidizs. OR, it may be the fact that the soundstage of the ZAX is more expansive and the vocals feels behind because of this.


----------



## snowmind

Hands up. Going now towards the extreme budget, more information about EDX?


----------



## darmanastartes

My review of the KZ ZAX is up on my blog:
https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/kz-zax-review-a2a2924d2c5e


----------



## Slater

Are the vents in ZAX open?





Yes


----------



## Tonymac136

snowmind said:


> Hands up. Going now towards the extreme budget, more information about EDX?



It's ok. There's a patch in the upper mids that sounds "off" which may come good with more use etc (I've acquired it between the T2Plus and the ZAX so not used it all that much). It's better than EDR1, livelier than ED9, NOWHERE NEAR Blon BL01 at all, more neutral than the MH750 but for that horrid upper mid.


----------



## alamnp

Anyone tried the new Tri Starsea?


----------



## DynamicEars

alamnp said:


> Anyone tried the new Tri Starsea?



@baskingshark have them, go to Tri thread. I say their tuning is great


----------



## IEMusic

alamnp said:


> Anyone tried the new Tri Starsea?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tri...i3-starlight-new-starsea.921113/post-15901903


----------



## Wgibson

Quick comment on the ZAX, I tend to turn volume up until I can hear good subbass details, and turn volume down based on treble sensitivity, and the ZAX might just hit a sweet spot for me there. Seems like preferred listening volume is rarely mentioned, but obviously makes a huge difference in what people like or don't like. What you listen to of course is also very important, if I can listen to "abrasive" instrumental rock like explosions in the sky or mogwai, at what I consider a reasonable volume, then I usually like it.

Mids/vocals are another can of worms, but I think ZAX does those pretty well too, or at least good enough / not bad enough for me to notice.


----------



## alamnp

IEMusic said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tri...i3-starlight-new-starsea.921113/post-15901903



thank you, i think I will pass for a sterile sounding IEM. stick with I3.


----------



## DynamicEars

alamnp said:


> thank you, i think I will pass for a sterile sounding IEM. stick with I3.



its not sterile IEM definitely. EJ07 is, or Monarch


----------



## alamnp

slex said:


> Yes it a keeper, $400? I could get i3 for $110 now ,my Zax are $53😄



wait? where did you get i3 for $110? please let me know. I will get it for myself.


----------



## alamnp (Oct 8, 2020)

DynamicEars said:


> its not sterile IEM definitely. EJ07 is, or Monarch



actually debating either getting i3 or starsea, what do you think since I saw that you have i3...?

actually I want to get mangird tea... do you think I should save up and get mangird tea instead of I3 or starsea?


----------



## DynamicEars

alamnp said:


> actually debating either getting i3 or starsea, what do you think since I saw that you have i3...?
> 
> actually I want to get mangird tea... do you think I should save up and get mangird tea instead of I3 or starsea?



depends on what do you need. Tuning wise starsea is better to me, but i3 have planar on their mids, it is great for this price range, with plenty of details and very fasttt.

mangird tea also great, i think tea is above both but check their FR, they are more like mid specialty IEMs, with very lean pinna gain.


----------



## Sonyflac

Looking for IEMs for about $ 100 balanced and with 2.5mm plug. Someone who can recommend some. Has had good experience of KZ IEMs.


----------



## DynamicEars

Sonyflac said:


> Looking for IEMs for about $ 100 balanced and with 2.5mm plug. Someone who can recommend some. Has had good experience of KZ IEMs.



are you from sweden? you should be friend with @RikudouGoku.
I think just focus on looking the IEM, cable come second, if your desired IEM dont have 2.5 balanced cable options, then you can always invest on cable now or later.

What is your preference signature, for reference, what KZ do you like since you have experiences with KZ IEMs and what do you like about them, and what you dont like about them, that can help us to guide you


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Oct 8, 2020)

Greetings to you all nice folks from a long time reader...

First things first: All my gratitude to you all for having brought to my knowledge the ZTE Axon 7 mini that is my daily player and the ZAX which i find simply breathtaking.
Unfortunately the Axon7 is under display replacement so i haven't had the chance to try the ZAX on it, but that time will hopefully come soon.

with my backup phone (huawei p9 lite) i've unexpectedly found out that the only player capable to fully handle the clarity, the details and  the soundstage of the ZAX is the Onkyo HF player. I'm a long time fan of Neutron, i've tried Foobar, Aimp, the Teac player, but no way, the difference with the Onkyo player is unbelievable, bass are present, deep and clear, treble are under control and voices are not recessed. I'm sorry for not being able to express it in a better way but they seem born to work together and bring my listening experience to a whole new level. Can't wait to try the Axon7 mini with dolby atmos and viper.

a few examples of what most impressed me:
- Kruder & Dorfmeister K&D Session
- Miles Davis Agharta
- Norah Jones Begin Again
- Steven Wilson Last day of June

tracks like Pariah and Refuge by Steven Wilson are not a fair test for a backup phone, but onkyo and zax can play them pretty well for my ears.

the drawback is that poorly recorded or poorly played  music (youtube and spotify) are no more an option, but this has to wait for a better hardware...


----------



## Keputs

darmanastartes said:


> My review of the KZ ZAX is up on my blog:
> https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/kz-zax-review-a2a2924d2c5e


Well-written and clear on every point.


----------



## alamnp

DynamicEars said:


> depends on what do you need. Tuning wise starsea is better to me, but i3 have planar on their mids, it is great for this price range, with plenty of details and very fasttt.
> 
> mangird tea also great, i think tea is above both but check their FR, they are more like mid specialty IEMs, with very lean pinna gain.



thanks, will do, I will save up and buy just that one expensive one good for all arounder


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Mouseman said:


> I have tons of KZs and the OG T2. The Tins never really grabbed me in terms of SQ, although I've heard some of the newer models are good. The shape is also really uncomfortable for my ears. I know they have their fans and were the flavor of the day for a bit, but they're in a case somewhere. I listen to different KZs pretty much every day and enjoy them.


Which kz do you prefer most for female vocals, pop ?


----------



## Viber

I thought about something yesterday:
In terms of marketing and attention to a specific thing, KZ had 3 eras by now:

The Bass era:  ZS1,ZS3 etc
The Treble and "hifi Detail" at the top era: ZS5,ZS6,ZSR etc

And now, the Mids era with the ASX.

I guess you can add the King Cheap era before all of that.


----------



## astermk (Oct 9, 2020)

Received the ZAX after an agonizingly long shipping. Tips on the picture are...whatever freebie foams AliExpress sellers send out, the cable is a KBEar 16 core silver plated copper.

Comparisons:

vs. ZS10 Pro: no contest, the ZAX are straight up just better in every way. Much bigger soundstage, better imaging and instrument separation, better details all across the spectrum, more controlled, tighter bass with less bass bleed (ZS10 Pro have more bass overall, but ZAX are in no way bass light), more upper treble extension.

vs. CCA C12: Similar story bass wise, but very similar in upper treble tuning. C12 are shoutier in the upper midrange. Vocals can feel slightly thin and pushed back on the ZAX at times, but this is a much bigger issue on the C12. Separation/imaging somewhat better on the ZAX, soundstage is much bigger again. C12 and ZS10 Pro feel downright cramped after having these in your ears.

vs. CCA CA16: Completely different. CA16 has some, I assume, intentional mid bass bleed and lower midrange warmth that make them very cozy and relaxed sounding, and a conservative tame treble. ZAX sound much colder and more energetic. Where the CA16 are treble shy, ZAX are so much more extended that comparisons just don't make sense. They shout a lot more as well. Soundstage is appreciably bigger on the ZAX in every axis, and the stage on the CA16 already isn't small. The bigger stage on the gives the illusion of better imaging and separation because things are just more spread out, but I don't think there's a notable difference in technical ability between the two. I would grab the CA16 if I have a 6 hour train, because their relaxed signature works better for long sessions, and the ZAX in most other scenarios. ZAX are much easier to drive. CA16 are by far the quietest of the 4, ZAX are similar to the other 3, maybe even a touch louder.

I think the ZAX is straight up the best KZ IEM out of these 4 in most ways that matter. I see how they could be a fatiguing signature for many people but so far I'm loving them. The only rivalry here is CA16 vs. ZAX, where the CA16 are a little more comfortable and sound better for vocals. That's pretty much it.


----------



## slex

Viber said:


> I thought about something yesterday:
> In terms of marketing and attention to a specific thing, KZ had 3 eras by now:
> 
> The Bass era:  ZS1,ZS3 etc
> ...


Erh, ASX mid era??? Are they out in the market yet? The black knowles driver tickles my fancy 😄


----------



## Viber

slex said:


> Erh, ASX mid era??? Are they out in the market yet? The black knowles driver tickles my fancy 😄


asx:






ASF:





But then again, this may just be more chifi marketing...


----------



## RikudouGoku

slex said:


> Erh, ASX mid era??? Are they out in the market yet? The black knowles driver tickles my fancy 😄


FIY: KZ uses bellsing drivers and not knowles.


----------



## slex

RikudouGoku said:


> FIY: KZ uses bellsing drivers and not knowles.


I just read Campfire Solaris using bellsing too. A better ripoff from Knowles 😄


----------



## ZAXon 7

astermk said:


> Received the ZAX after an agonizingly long shipping. Tips on the picture are...whatever freebie foams AliExpress sellers send out, the cable is a KBEar 16 core silver plated copper.
> 
> Comparisons:
> 
> ...



can you describe the difference between the stock cable and the KBEar 16 core silver plated copper?


----------



## astermk

ZAXon 7 said:


> can you describe the difference between the stock cable and the KBEar 16 core silver plated copper?


None whatsoever sonically, as far as I can tell. I just like the KBEar cable better visually and the increased thickness means it's less prone to tangling. The stock cable is the new silver kind, and it's somewhat better than the old nasty brown cable. I threw that one on my CA16.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 9, 2020)

Viber said:


> I thought about something yesterday:
> In terms of marketing and attention to a specific thing, KZ had 3 eras by now:
> 
> The Bass era:  ZS1,ZS3 etc
> ...


AS16, C16 were pretty neutral before, the latter have one of the best mids that I've experienced.

AS12 had a nice bass BA implementation.

With one bass BA out of 10 overall, it is hard to expect ASX & ASF to offer more bass than AS16

I love AS16, bass is there when needed, treble is really engaging 

P. S. Added ASX in the second last paragraph


----------



## ZAXon 7

astermk said:


> None whatsoever sonically, as far as I can tell. I just like the KBEar cable better visually and the increased thickness means it's less prone to tangling. The stock cable is the new silver kind, and it's somewhat better than the old nasty brown cable. I threw that one on my CA16.


thanks, some pages earlier someone wrote he found great benefits with a gold-silver cable, i'm quite curious about the effectiveness of cable switching


----------



## unifutomaki

ZAXon 7 said:


> thanks, some pages earlier someone wrote he found great benefits with a gold-silver cable, i'm quite curious about the effectiveness of cable switching



I switched from the silver plated stock cable to KZ's own pink copper cable on my ZAX. There was no perceptible change whatsoever.


----------



## PhonoPhi

ZAXon 7 said:


> thanks, some pages earlier someone wrote he found great benefits with a gold-silver cable, i'm quite curious about the effectiveness of cable switching


I've tried changing several cables on ZAX and CA16 - 16-cores, etc.
Tried pure silver (3 different ones) in a hope for a touch more treble - nope...

If to turn on the imagination - then blue cables all the way - sparkly, ethereal,  engaging, surreal quasiholographic stage expansion and extension and a golden touch of extra resolution across the range!

Only my best IEMs get an honour to be coupled with blue cables


----------



## ZAXon 7

unifutomaki said:


> I switched from the silver plated stock cable to KZ's own pink copper cable on my ZAX. There was no perceptible change whatsoever.





PhonoPhi said:


> I've tried changing several cables on ZAX and CA16 - 16-cores, etc.
> Tried pure silver (3 different ones) in a hope for a touch more treble - nope...
> 
> If to turn on the imagination - then blue cables all the way - sparkly, ethereal,  engaging, surreal quasiholographic stage expansion and extension and a golden touch of extra resolution across the range!
> ...



thank you,  guess i'll consider cable switching a dead end for now, except for 'blue cables' i've never heard of, going to do some research about them...


----------



## unifutomaki

ZAXon 7 said:


> thank you,  guess i'll consider cable switching a dead end for now, except for 'blue cables' i've never heard of, going to do some research about them...



I think @PhonoPhi is joking


----------



## ZAXon 7

unifutomaki said:


> I think @PhonoPhi is joking



 was ready to read every single google answer for 'audio blue cable'... i'll keep that for an eventual new lockdown...


----------



## PhonoPhi

unifutomaki said:


> I think @PhonoPhi is joking


Partially (an actual proportion of a joke is to be determined by the readers) 

I did get about every blue cable out there under $25 and immensely enjoy them aesthetically, as well as train my imagination to "hear cables", the power of psychoacoustics is not to be underappreciated  

Then, people talking about any acoustic difference with graphene(?), gold, palladium cables give me a good laugh, as a materials chemist.


----------



## IEMusic

PhonoPhi said:


> Partially (an actual proportion of a joke is to be determined by the readers)
> 
> I did get about every blue cable out there under $25 and immensely enjoy them aesthetically, as well as train my imagination to "hear cables", the power of psychoacoustics is not to be underappreciated
> 
> Then, people talking about any acoustic difference with graphene(?), gold, palladium cables give me a good laugh, as a materials chemist.


I figure you were approx. 20% joking.  Psychoacoustics certainly plays a huge role, and I’m happy to be a frugal participant.  I find aesthetics and build quality to be very high on my cable priority list.  I do think I hear a difference between *some *cables, and if it’s all my imagination, I don’t care, if I enjoy it. A thin, tangly cable always sounds terrible, even if it’s made out of silver, graphene, palladium, and plutonium.


----------



## crabdog

It's probably been covered a zillion times here but I finally got around to publishing my ZSN Pro X review for those interested. I'd say it's definitely better technically than the ZSN Pro but maybe not as fun.


----------



## paulwasabii

crabdog said:


> It's probably been covered a zillion times here but I finally got around to publishing my ZSN Pro X review for those interested. I'd say it's definitely better technically than the ZSN Pro but maybe not as fun.



Covered a zillion times maybe, but the two sides are interesting.  Some said it was too close to the ZSN Pro, just a new faceplate.  I agree with you, it is similar with some improvements.  I am partial to their new dynamic driver also.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

snowmind said:


> Hands up. Going now towards the extreme budget, more information about EDX?


EDX arrived today, so couple of hours with it and I'm happy   
Nice, deep and quick Bass - clear, articulated Mids - forward, not fatiguing Treble
Every range is detailed (no burn-in yet)
Good imaging, smaller soundstage
V-shape sound
With 2,5 mm OCC cable EDX is very detailed, somehow a bit U-shaped
Detail-wise and even in tuning it is on similar level with iBasso it-00

(Source is Shanling M5s)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Oct 9, 2020)

I received my EDX last week and I must say after a long time I've thoroughly enjoyed something which didn't burn a hole in my wallet.

There aren't many IEMs in that price range which can give fun and clean sound. The bass is tight and clean with emphasis more on sub-bass than midbass. Mids are slightly recessed but have pleasant texture to it. Treble sort of still suffers from the vintage steeliness but it's less than ZSN. Their compact size gives superb isolation and fit.

The million dollar question, is it a budget killer like ZSN? Or iconic like ED9 or EDR1?

IMO it is probably the most refined sub $10 IEM especially when we see folks getting it for as low as $5. At that price, a good sounding IEM with detachable cable is extremely hard to beat.

Despite all it's goodness, it still falls a little short of ED9 probably because of tuning filters and modding which elevates them to their current status. I haven't modded them yet but might do in near future. And IMO, they're very close to EDR1. But they cost 2x more, and that probably tilts the balance in EDR1's favour.

For folks who are looking for an upgrade to their cellphone bundled earphones or a replacement, EDX are an excellent IEM which gives them the luxury of replaceable cables and sound quality way above of their current gear.

KZ has got a winner in the ultra budget category. When was the last time that happened? Probably ages ago.

This is one random guy's opinion in the vast world of WWW, please take it with a grain of salt and not the absolute truth. YMMV. I'll be glad if folks find this helpful.


----------



## Viber (Oct 9, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> AS16, C16 were pretty neutral before, the latter have one of the best mids that I've experienced.
> 
> AS12 had a nice bass BA implementation.
> 
> ...



You're right, i forgot about AS16.   Maybe that's when they've shifted their focus.
Though, i gotta say, the marketing for the AS16 was....weird?


----------



## fullmoon280

So its been a long time since Ive bought a KZ iem and was curious as whats the current hotness for around $20-$30. Last pair of KZ iems I owned was the ZST Colorful and am curious how the newer iems within my price range compare to it.


----------



## PhonoPhi

fullmoon280 said:


> So its been a long time since Ive bought a KZ iem and was curious as whats the current hotness for around $20-$30. Last pair of KZ iems I owned was the ZST Colorful and am curious how the newer iems within my price range compare to it.


The "hotness" will be ZS10 pro that gets closer to $30.
For the smooth treble in this range CCA C10 will work nicely at under $25 or so (CCA is the sister/twin brand of KZ).

At $50 or so, recent CCA CA16 and KZ ZAX are very competitive offerings for smoother and brighter, respectively.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Viber said:


> You're right, i forgot about AS16.   Maybe that's when they've shifted their focus.
> Though, i gotta say, the marketing for the AS16 was....weird?


KZ marketing language is largely on a wild side, as always; recent ASX and ASF are a bit more refined, but the same "good KZ".

Having compared AS16 with two $200 all BAs, I now decided to stay with KZ/CCA exclusively and enjoy the ride that is reasonably affordable for me 

(Recent ZSN pro X and CCA C10 pro were not "bingos" for me, but CA16 and ZAX were; and then knowing that they are the best efforts of the company makes more sense and more rewarding for me, compared to going for some mid- or low-budget lines of "established" companies).


----------



## fullmoon280

PhonoPhi said:


> The "hotness" will be ZS10 pro that gets closer to $30.
> For the smooth treble in this range CCA C10 will work nicely at under $25 or so (CCA is the sister/twin brand of KZ).
> 
> At $50 or so, recent CCA CA16 and KZ ZAX are very competitive offerings for smoother and brighter, respectively.



Unfortunately the ZS10 Pro and CCA C10 are $40+ on amazon which is where I would prefer to buy them(which I forgot to mention).


----------



## PhonoPhi

fullmoon280 said:


> Unfortunately the ZS10 Pro and CCA C10 are $40+ on amazon which is where I would prefer to buy them(which I forgot to mention).


Then others may comment on ZST X and ZSN pro X as suitable recent candidates for ZST upgrade in this range.


----------



## snowmind

My EDX has also arrived, I must confirm, it is gaining a lot of hype in the extreme budget category and there are motivations for that to happen.

There is simply nothing very wrong or unbearable about the signature, everything is fine with the timbre, it looks much more natural than a low-cost hybrid iem (ZSN Pro with its high piercing and artificial treble, I'm looking at you). Considering the huge benefit you get from paying less than $ 9, other competing companies will have to work to fight KZ in that price range.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

snowmind said:


> My EDX has also arrived, I must confirm, it is gaining a lot of hype in the extreme budget category and there are motivations for that to happen.
> 
> There is simply nothing very wrong or unbearable about the signature, everything is fine with the timbre, it looks much more natural than a low-cost hybrid iem (ZSN Pro with its high piercing and artificial treble, I'm looking at you). Considering the huge benefit you get from paying less than $ 9, other competing companies will have to work to fight KZ in that price range.



Totally. The season was hyped with OnePlus going back to it's roots with Nord but in reality it's KZ which went back to it's roots. EDX does a lot of things right which has again set the benchmark in the sub-$10 category. It's like they're making a statement that they're still great at creating a good IEM which costs no more than a cup of Starbucks coffee. They changed the game with ZSN in 2018 and in 2020 they have done it again with EDX.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

xxAMAROKxx said:


> EDX arrived today, so couple of hours with it and I'm happy
> Nice, deep and quick Bass - clear, articulated Mids - forward, not fatiguing Treble
> Every range is detailed (no burn-in yet)
> Good imaging, smaller soundstage
> ...



The balanced out does enhance mids a little making the signature lean towards balanced as opposed V-shaped when played via 3.5mm output. Maybe the driver needs slightly more juice to display it's full potential. I am driving it via my Walnut F2 and Redmi K20 Pro.


----------



## zentro

very slight differences, i think i like the c10 pro a bit more, great comparisons on other iems too


----------



## purplesun

fullmoon280 said:


> So its been a long time since Ive bought a KZ iem and was curious as whats the current hotness for around $20-$30. Last pair of KZ iems I owned was the ZST Colorful and am curious how the newer iems within my price range compare to it.


Would be good info to know your favourite music genres and artists to better recommend a suitable IEM.


----------



## purplesun (Oct 9, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> I think @PhonoPhi is joking



I think discussing orchestral strings sound accuracy is about the only time @PhonoPhi is deadly serious.


----------



## baskingshark

Dani157 said:


> I received my EDX last week and I must say after a long time I've thoroughly enjoyed something which didn't burn a hole in my wallet.
> 
> There aren't many IEMs in that price range which can give fun and clean sound. The bass is tight and clean with emphasis more on sub-bass than midbass. Mids are slightly recessed but have pleasant texture to it. Treble sort of still suffers from the vintage steeliness but it's less than ZSN. Their compact size gives superb isolation and fit.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impressions. Do u happen to have a legit Sony MH755 to compare the EDX with?


----------



## seanwee (Oct 9, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions. Do u happen to have a legit Sony MH755 to compare the EDX with?


That's the thing you see. If the MH755 was more widely known I doubt the early chi-fi iems would have stood much of a chance.


----------



## Makahl (Oct 17, 2020)

I got the KZ EDX some days ago. My initial impression is that it's basically a baby Urbanfun YBF. Very energetic, tons of bass but more in the "massive" side compared to YBF due to slightly more boost at the mid-bass. I'd say it's a refined old school KZ V-shape signature but not as intense and with a faster driver compared to something like their older 1DD ZS3/ATR. Really, if you just want a beater pair with a fun sound the EDX is a no-brainer at $6-7.

My pair hasn't any major mismatch, actually pretty damn good for its price:



Spoiler



*Disclaimer: *BOYA-MIC1 + vinyl tube + Apple dongle - it's not comparable to the IEC711 measurements. Expect fake extension past ~6k. Although I think it can be useful for modding and spot some differences since I'm measuring using the same rig.


----------



## cleg

My video with ZAX impressions


----------



## Nimweth

ZAX on the way!


----------



## hmscott (Oct 11, 2020)

My KZ ZAX arrived yesterday, along with several other IEM's for review - and found time tonight to put it together with SednaFit ML tips - better sealing fit for me than KZ tips - and found the KZ ZAX cable is a new KZ cable, very soft and "silver" encased in clear jacket, no chin slider - plastic splitter, and then I plugged it in to the Topping A90 and flipped into some Tidal Jazz - Chet Baker...and what am I hearing - or not hearing?

Out of the box this the first new KZ IEM that comes out of the box "Mellow" almost like it's already broken in! - maybe it is, this KZ ZAX was sent to me as part of a review Tour but came directly from Hifigo, I've emailed them to ask if this KZ ZAX is new or if it really is "broken in" already by the previous reviewer 

The ZAX is tuneful and clean on everything I am throwing at it - A90 L Gain -15.0dB PRE mode volume straight up 12 noon, and also on my FiiO M15 - L Gain with or without "over-ear headphone" mode the ZAX sounds rich and full, with a wide soundstage.

I had been enjoying listening to my new / pre-owned DT 990 600 ohm that has also clearly been broken in - mellow sound and wide sound stage, and switching over to the KZ ZAX gave me the same full sound with an even wider sound stage - both with well defined and detailed bass and vocals - neither has too much treble either, on most recordings so far.

The KZ ZAX is a bit less mellow than the broken in DT990 600ohm, but still much better than any other KZ out of the box.

Transitioned across a number of genres of music, really getting into each one as they pass by my senses...

In New York [Original Jazz Classics Remasters] by Chet Baker — 7 Tracks — 51:30 MASTER Released 09/01/1958
https://tidal.com/browse/album/91579862
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01LY1Q7QU?ref=dm_sh_8be2-89c7-9f59-cb66-6bc18

In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by Iron Butterfly — 6 Tracks — 36:05 Released 06/01/1968
https://tidal.com/browse/track/24510381
https://tidal.com/browse/album/24510375
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B00H9EEPTW?trackAsin=B00H9EEUD8&ref=dm_sh_9bd6-0f19-81e9-c903-2b66c
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B00H9EEPTW?ref=dm_sh_b2a4-1197-1fd3-bb4f-abc40

Sampling: Nas Created by TIDAL — 191 Tracks — 15:01:42
Nas has one of the most stellar sampling archives in the game. With a career spanning 15 albums, his musical influence spreads wide and deep. Celebrate his catalog with
this fire playlist of samples the Queens rapper has used. (Photo: Rovi)
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/b57ddbc1-89ac-4327-af50-c08de3745a69

Inexplicably I've been looping and rocking out on this track from the Traveling Wilbury's:
https://tidal.com/browse/track/61155967
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01G8IFGQA?trackAsin=B01G8IFCVE&ref=dm_sh_966e-4fb1-7314-256d-2f35e

The Traveling Wilburys, Vol. 1 by The Traveling Wilburys — 10 Tracks — 36:27 Released 10/25/1988
https://tidal.com/browse/album/61155958
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01G8IFGQA?ref=dm_sh_f5a1-b45f-1607-742c-3f2d6

I think it might be because I'd previously been binge re-watching Brooklyn Nine-Nine - getting as far as S1E8 before switching to Tidal and then unpacking the IEM's..:
https://www.peacocktv.com/watch/pla...08916_01/e5700cad-6478-322e-9ade-7a28c910f7ee

For me the KZ ZAX is a "keeper", I heard it that way instantly switching over from the Beyerdynamic DT990 600 ohm.  Usually it takes a good long time of break in before I feel this way about an IEM, or headphone.  There's a first time for everything I suppose.  

*Update:*
The model I received is the "Blue" no-mic with Silver shield with Black grills, very nice looking, nice finish.
https://hifigo.com/products/kz-zax?variant=32380350660657

@cleg noticed no difference in sound after 60 hours burn-in, so maybe the KZ ZAX really is this mellow right out of the box.  

*Update:*
Hifigo confirmed all of the IEM's they sent in the Tour including the KZ ZAX are all new unused - no burn-in hours.  So the KZ ZAX is mellow right out of the box, wow, that's a first 

The KZ ZAX was sounding so sweet on everything with it's stock cable, so I moved on to the KBEAR 16 core silver plated 4.4mm cable, and the ZAX kept singing beautifully.

Impatiently, I quickly moved on to see if the KZ ZAX would be well behaved on the new KBEAR limpid 4 core 4N 99.99% Purity silver 2-pin 4.4mm cable delivered from AliExpress a few days ago:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-15907369

The Blon BL-03 will need to step aside and let the ZAX have the room for a while.  It's just amazingly detailed sounding - with no sibilance or discomfort with treble filled female and male vocals.


----------



## unifutomaki

Nimweth said:


> ZAX on the way!



Looking forward to your thoughts


----------



## Nimweth

unifutomaki said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts


Yes, thank you, I will be posting impressions and comparing with ZSX and CCA CA16.


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Oct 10, 2020)

i must have played Dire Straits, Love Over Gold thousands of times, but must admit that i've really heard it today for the first time... all those tiny details in Private investigations...


----------



## Nimweth

ZAXon 7 said:


> i must have played Dire Straits, Love Over Gold thousands of times, but must admit that i've really heard it today for the first time... all those tiny details in Private investigations...


Brilliant track! One of my favourites.


----------



## nonyhaha

These asx look elusive. No review yet. I am pretty hyped about them. I have the c12 on the way but a full ba looks appealing to me. I hope we will have some response graphs by the beginning of november.


----------



## voicemaster

nonyhaha said:


> These asx look elusive. No review yet. I am pretty hyped about them. I have the c12 on the way but a full ba looks appealing to me. I hope we will have some response graphs by the beginning of november.


Its because its not released yet. It will start shipping on Oct.15. Hopefully they process it fast because I have already pre-ordered one.


----------



## Viber

What is actually new with the ASX and ASF? 
New editions of the old BA drivers right?
Anything else?


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> What is actually new with the ASX and ASF?
> New editions of the old BA drivers right?
> Anything else?


That and new all BA driver IEM. Most of their new releases have been hybrid.


----------



## Turbulance

teus said:


> Damnit. The transparant pieces around the connector for my KZ ZS10 pro broke. The cable now moves loosely over the connector and won't stay in. Is this common, and how do I fix it?
> How is it called anyway? I have a 3D printer available.



Mine broke too, first the right monitor and then the left. In the end I gave up and superglued them. Hasn’t been a problem for me since. Could always use use acetone (carefully) to dissolve the glue layer in if I needed too but I don’t need the cable for anything else.


----------



## Nimweth

I have the ZAX coming soon. I am confused so far by the reviews of it here on Head Fi, there are three very different opinions. We have cool mids, warm mids, lack of treble extension, good treble extension, wide soundstage, average soundstage! It will be interesting to see how mine sound in comparison.


----------



## ZAXon 7

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZAX coming soon. I am confused so far by the reviews of it here on Head Fi, there are three very different opinions. We have cool mids, warm mids, lack of treble extension, good treble extension, wide soundstage, average soundstage! It will be interesting to see how mine sound in comparison.



what i've found out with my actual limited hardware is that the ZAX, being so easy to drive and revealing, requires adequate source files and adequate music player. The Onkyo HF player for android is giving me way better output in every aspects compared to any other player i tried, and i've tried many.
my beloved neutron for example has a much smaller soundstage in which voices may sound recessed while onkyo with its much wider soundstage and precision places voice exactly where the sound engineer wanted them placed.


----------



## Howell29

ZAXon 7 said:


> what i've found out with my actual limited hardware is that the ZAX, being so easy to drive and revealing, requires adequate source files and adequate music player. The Onkyo HF player for android is giving me way better output in every aspects compared to any other player i tried, and i've tried many.
> my beloved neutron for example has a much smaller soundstage in which voices may sound recessed while onkyo with its much wider soundstage and precision places voice exactly where the sound engineer wanted them placed.



*Cries in Spotify 320kbps


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 12, 2020)

I hardly hear any different from lossless to mp3 320kbps. Of course it has to be a real 320kbps not from 128kbps upscaled to 320kbps.


----------



## alamnp (Oct 12, 2020)

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZAX coming soon. I am confused so far by the reviews of it here on Head Fi, there are three very different opinions. We have cool mids, warm mids, lack of treble extension, good treble extension, wide soundstage, average soundstage! It will be interesting to see how mine sound in comparison.



not sure, my KZ ZS10 Pro is heavily modded, as you can see, the sound profile is close to ZAX.

I have not put ZAX on DAC/amps yet, only playing it on Iphone for now.

So far, I can't put ZAX on full volume with the stock star tip, to me, the sibilance is real. Maybe because I got used to CCA CA16 profile. However, on low volume level, with Comply tip, it's good for classical, jazz, marvin gaye album for sure and my imogene dragon.

Bad for KPOP female

As far as CCA CA16 I like it better for use daily, but you have to have an exact tip, CP800 or CP100. if you want more treble extension, thinner mids, go with CP100. CP800 will make the mids fuller, but will dampen the treble more.

I did eq my CCA CA16 previously, NOT GOOD for eq-ing, sounded really bad. CCA CA16 definitely not for EQ - using pyle audio amps/eq. I don't think CCA CA16 can handle party style power, but again, unless you are deaf, I don't think you will amp your CA16 to that level.

Not sure, but to me my CCA CA16 on Iphone sounded better than Westone W60.

As you know, high end driver, usually need to be paired with a good amp to drive their full potential. So, when I said sounded like $1000, was without amping or eq-ing it. 

expensive IEM without a good amp - sounds like a tin can.


----------



## astermk

alamnp said:


> not sure, my KZ ZS10 Pro is heavily modded, as you can see, the sound profile is close to ZAX.
> 
> I have not put ZAX on DAC/amps yet, only playing it on Iphone for now.
> 
> ...


ZAX expose sibilance when the recording is mixed in a way that is sibilant, it does not introduce sibilance where it doesn't exist in the mix. CA16 kills the treble so much that I've never heard it sss-ing but that's more of a con than a pro to me.

ZAX don't benefit whatsoever from amping. I tried it out, they're sensitive enough to play great from pretty much anything, including onboard laptop audio and any phone.


----------



## lgcubana

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZAX coming soon. I am confused so far by the reviews of it here on Head Fi, there are three very different opinions. We have cool mids, warm mids, lack of treble extension, good treble extension, wide soundstage, average soundstage! It will be interesting to see how mine sound in comparison.


It all depends on what you’re comparing the ZAX to and if you're open to using an EQ.  I recently compared the ZAX to the KB Ear Tri i3: Link
Where the mids and soundstage were a lopsided win for the the i3.  But within it's category, the ZAX is a keeper. The ZAX does enough things well, to be my current set for walking around the neighborhood.
Also, I erroneously inferred that the ZAX benefits from a balanced cable; but this only accentuates any sibilance in a recording. The ZAX does still play well, on my Qudelix-5K (on an aftermarket SE cable), as it does adapt well, to the PEQ;  where a cut can be induced, to compensate for any sibilance.


----------



## alamnp

lgcubana said:


> It all depends on what you’re comparing the ZAX to and if you're open to using an EQ.  I recently compared the ZAX to the KB Ear Tri i3: Link
> Where the mids and soundstage were a lopsided win for the the i3.  But within it's category, the ZAX is a keeper. The ZAX does enough things well, to be my current set for walking around the neighborhood.
> Also, I erroneously inferred that the ZAX benefits from a balanced cable; but this only accentuates any sibilance in a recording. The ZAX does still play well, on my Qudelix-5K (on an aftermarket SE cable), as it does adapt well, to the PEQ;  where a cut can be induced, to compensate for any sibilance.



btw my zs10 pro also eq really well, vs ZAX a bit more congested... also could hear a bit distortion...


----------



## ozkan (Oct 12, 2020)

Edx arrived. I found them a lot better than Zs7 which has a peaky and aggressive treble. They punch above their price range.


----------



## alamnp

ozkan said:


> Edx arrived. I found them a lot better than Zs7 which has a peaky and aggressive treble. They punch above their price range.



how do you compare it with ed9?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So I'm bouncing back and forth between the ZSX and the ThieAudio Legacy 3. It's weird.

The L3 is what I'd call "better" in most regards. It's really an amazing headphone. The sound is cohesive, it's smooth, it's enjoyable.

Yet it's... small. It feels much more "in my ears" than the ZSX. The ZSX's bass is more bloomy and the highs are more sharp by comparison, but the ZSX also feels like I'm listening to a full concert.

I'm torn between them. It's a bit maddening lol.


----------



## Sebulr

voicemaster said:


> I hardly hear any different from lossless to mp3 320kbps. Of course it has to be a real 320kbps not from 128kbps upscaled to 320kbps.


I can't tell if a file is 192k mp3 or wave file or 128k AAC. I blind tested myself years ago.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> So I'm bouncing back and forth between the ZSX and the ThieAudio Legacy 3. It's weird.
> 
> The L3 is what I'd call "better" in most regards. It's really an amazing headphone. The sound is cohesive, it's smooth, it's enjoyable.
> 
> ...



mood is the key   
the same song/album can be refreshing to listen on different headphones. and usually i choose them depending on my mood.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

astermk said:


> ZAX expose sibilance when the recording is mixed in a way that is sibilant, it does not introduce sibilance where it doesn't exist in the mix. CA16 kills the treble so much that I've never heard it sss-ing but that's more of a con than a pro to me.
> .....



Yeah, better to hear some sibilances, than to have a bad treble implementation like CA16. After this terrible experience, I'll wait for a review or at least measurements (ASF, ASX)


----------



## Nimweth

ZAX arrived. Burning in, impressions soon.


----------



## astermk

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZAX coming soon. I am confused so far by the reviews of it here on Head Fi, there are three very different opinions. We have cool mids, warm mids, lack of treble extension, good treble extension, wide soundstage, average soundstage! It will be interesting to see how mine sound in comparison.


As the others said it's all about what you compare against - vs. the CA16 the mids are cool and the soundstage is huge, because the CA16 are very warm and the soundstage isn't small but it's nothing spectacular. The ZAX do have the widest stage of every KZ/CCA I've tried in general. As for warmth, they are a little warmer than the CCA C12 and about as warm as a ZS10 Pro.

Lack of treble extension is one I really struggle to understand, as the upper treble is my favorite thing about them. Anything more would be piercing and fatiguing for me, less and they would start to sound more boring and lose the airiness.


----------



## PhonoPhi

KZ ASX finally shipped


----------



## ZAXon 7

Axon 7 mini is back home, finally ZAX have an adequate source, actually playing with atmos, viper and different music players.


----------



## voicemaster

My ASX has been shipped from China on Ali. Can't wait!!


----------



## astermk

Absolute beauties <3


----------



## hmscott (Oct 19, 2020)

A quick update, surprised at the sibilance reports for the ZAX because I can't get mine to exhibit sibilance even on 99.99% pure silver. The details picked up, the treble became more defined as did the bass. And I ran through lots of genres to check out the range, I am very happy when listening to the ZAX's.

Going from Copper, to silver plated, to pure silver cables the ZAX kept delivering awesome enjoyable audio for me on the M15 and Topping A90 / D90 MQA.

After deciding that the KZ ZAX is a keeper, I moved on to the next new IEM - the BQEYZ Spring 2, and I swapped them directly for the KZ ZAX's on the 99.99% pure silver - right in the middle of playing the most potentially sibilant tracks I had recently heard,

The two Tenilles, and the Traveling Wilbury's:

*Love, Heartbreak, & Everything in Between by Tenille Arts*


Spoiler: Tidal and Amazon Music links



https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0813YBDTZ?ref=dm_sh_76f9-a98d-51ec-8af3-cc733
https://tidal.com/browse/album/121873630
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0813YBDTZ?trackAsin=B0813YGFFB&ref=dm_sh_0796-f244-1972-5175-b7b70
https://tidal.com/browse/track/121873631
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0813YBDTZ?trackAsin=B0813XS7CK&ref=dm_sh_e6a4-9cda-c86e-84e3-960ee
https://tidal.com/browse/track/121873640


*The Lemonade Stand by Tenille Townes*


Spoiler: Tidal and Amazon Music links



https://music.amazon.com/albums/B087Z32JMK?ref=dm_sh_4a98-f29d-6d55-7115-9be5d
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B087Z32JMK?trackAsin=B087YR229M&ref=dm_sh_b752-d70b-5b03-830d-31137
https://tidal.com/browse/track/145654147
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B087Z32JMK?trackAsin=B087Z16GJZ&ref=dm_sh_0178-eafb-8131-e239-22cdd
https://tidal.com/browse/track/145654157


*The Traveling Wilburys, Vol. 1 by The Traveling Wilburys*


Spoiler: Tidal and Amazon Music links



https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01G8IFGQA?ref=dm_sh_69f6-3851-6b17-8de9-ccb5c
https://tidal.com/browse/album/77669466
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01G8IFGQA?trackAsin=B01G8IFHS2&ref=dm_sh_686a-7804-895a-e870-72d5a
https://tidal.com/browse/track/77669467
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01G8IFGQA?trackAsin=B01G8IFDVS&ref=dm_sh_a9dd-5a90-ee57-ded9-d0956
https://tidal.com/browse/track/77669476
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01G8IFGQA?trackAsin=B01G8IFCVE&ref=dm_sh_5b69-2407-8108-38da-581c3
https://tidal.com/browse/track/77669475


*(I really want to enjoy Amazon HD Music as much as I do Tidal, but to my head bopping ears Tidal has so much more definition, slam, and rocks solidly better A/B with Amazon HD Music...it's like the track wakes up when I switch over, UltraHD on Amazon, Hifi on Tidal -  not even an MQA master:
https://tidal.com/browse/track/145654147 )*

...I went from rocking out with the ZAX's to the "ear bleeding sad sad" Spring 2's...Such an unpleasant sound I'd not heard since... Tinhifi P1's straight out of the box.  This is the sound I fear from high end IEM's out of the box.

The ZAX's being pure joy right out of the box tricked me into hoping that was going to keep happening...not so. Sigh.

Then I spotted the Spring 2's bundled 4.4mm cable, two braided cords of many threads in a clear plastic - bright shiny Copper showing through the clear coating.  And, I knew, "they know".  BQEYZ knows the Spring 2 is too hot and spitty, and needs to be tamed.

Yup, the Spring 2 bundled cable makes the Spring 2 more bearable.  The Spring 2's don't sound nice but they aren't anywhere near as bad - it's not immediately noticeable that they have mismatched drivers - which I hope even out after some burn-in.

What gives it away is the unpleasant feeling I get while listening to them - all of a sudden a couple of jabs of unpleasant sound hits my ears.  Not fun - they apparently are like many IEM's and need lots of break-in - and on the scale of Blon BL-05 (7) to TinHiFi P1 (10), I'd expect the Spring 2's to be an "8" - needing a least a week or more of burn-in, and like the Blon BL-05 and TinHiFi P1's I can't wear the Spring 2's while they are burning in - mostly because I have the KZ ZAX's to wear 

I'm gonna enjoy the KZ ZAX's for a while before moving on to the Mia Cat 8mm and NICEHCK NX7 MK3's, and hope the Spring 2's are ready after a long burn-in.

The Spring 2's have had about 15 hours of burn-in, and I am still hearing that "spitting bad sound" come out at times, and yes this is on their bundled copper cable.  I subbed in the KBEAR 16 core silver plated and I like more of the sound, that is the enjoyable sound around the "spitting bad sound".

And, I keep wondering as on the Copper - "where's the Bass?"  These things advertise a 13mm dynamic driver and I just don't hear any bass.  What's up with that?

When I first put the Spring 2's on the 99.99% pure silver cable I was too busy fending off the shrill sounds to realize I wasn't hearing any bass - the KZ's with the 10mm driver have way more bass - solid well defined fun bass - and the Spring 2's didn't improve much on their bundled Copper cable.  What a disappointment.

IDK, I don't think burn-in is gonna help enough to make me want to end up buying these Spring 2's, so sad, they are such a pretty Green color and the box comes with all the normal goodies - including a nice zippered pouch.

But, it comes down to the sound I hear, does it make me happy?  No, the Spring 2's sound does not make me happy, not out of the box, not after 15 hours.

I'll keep going and hope they come through in the end.  I'm not counting on it at this point.  The difference?  The TinHiFi P1's had a smooth connected sound, with no bad spitting mismatched drivers, it was a matter of honing the sharp edges.  After 3 weeks of burn-in, now I love the TinHifi P1's.

IDK about the Spring 2's, this is something different.


I should mention that I did first try using the BQEYZ Spring 2 included tips, they are similar in construction to the AZLA SednaEarfit Size ML I rely on (both of the IEM's in the photo have them), but unfortunately the included sizes weren't quite what I needed to get a solid seal - they kept losing connection with my ear and the sound suffered for it.  My notes above are with the AZLA SednaEarfit Size ML's attached.

Update 6 days later:
The Spring 2's are finally broken in - at least enough to get through the above tracks without ill sounding spitting and zinging - at least on their stock copper cables.

I've been running them 24/7 (or close enough) for the last 6 days on 192khz MQA masters from Tidal:
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/bd51ad45-df8a-4333-8615-d7526b80b70a

...and I picked them up to test them and I am happy to report they are sounding very nicely behaved on the tracks I tested in that Playlist - then I went back to the tracks in this post and enjoyed listening to all of them.

I'm very happy that I can report improvement.  I'll keep them cooking for a while longer.


----------



## Nimweth

hmscott said:


> A quick update, surprised at the sibilance reports for the ZAX because I can't get mine to exhibit sibilance even on 99.99% pure silver. The details picked up, the treble became more defined as did the bass. And I ran through lots of genres to check out the range, I am very happy when listening to the ZAX's.
> 
> Going from Copper, to silver plated, to pure silver cables the ZAX kept delivering awesome enjoyable audio for me on the M15 and Topping A90 / D90 MQA.
> 
> ...


I have swapped the stock cable on the ZAX for a 16 core SPC one from Hifi Hear. Wonderful improvements include staging, clarity and detail. Such a big bold sound, great for classical and film scores. This ZAX is shaping up to be top of the tree from KZ!


----------



## unifutomaki

Nimweth said:


> I have swapped the stock cable on the ZAX for a 16 core SPC one from Hifi Hear. Wonderful improvements include staging, clarity and detail. Such a big bold sound, great for classical and film scores. This ZAX is shaping up to be top of the tree from KZ!



Sounds like you're a fan then  They are my most detailed pair by far, and have an exciting, dynamic tonality that I keep coming back to.


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Oct 14, 2020)

amazed at how well ZAX reacts to filtering. their staging, dynamics, clarity, detail and being so easy to drive makes them perfect terminals for my chain in which the software side is so prominent. being able to craft the perfect listening experience for any music and any mood i'm in is the greatest gift.

amazed at how good ZAX sounds from a good dac like the axon 7 mini without any intervention

amazed for having listened to Ben Harper's Diamond on the inside exactly the way i've always wanted to but never been able

next step will be try to get the same sound from spotify and youtbe.

does that make the ZAX an all-rounder?


----------



## Nimweth

I'm loving the ZAX. It's like a more refined version of the ZS10 pro, ZS7 or ZSX, without losing the fun factor. Very good mid timbre for BAs as well, perhaps just a little brighter than ideal and there's a minor lift in upper mids/lower treble but is not too troublesome.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hmscott said:


> I'll keep going and hope they come through in the end.  I'm not counting on it at this point.  The difference?  The TinHiFi P1's had a smooth connected sound, with no bad spitting mismatched drivers, it was a matter of honing the sharp edges.  After 3 weeks of burn-in, now I love the TinHifi P1's.



I had this exact same experience with the Tin P1's after a long burn-in...hard to beat.

Also do love the ZAX when I manage to get a good seal...


----------



## Nimweth

unifutomaki said:


> Sounds like you're a fan then  They are my most detailed pair by far, and have an exciting, dynamic tonality that I keep coming back to.


I agree. The detail retrieval is exceptionally good and the dynamic range impressive. Nice dark backgrounds too.


----------



## crabdog

Here's my video of the little Z1 that almost could. It's still good imo except for that one thing...


----------



## Viber

Anyone ordered the ASF?


----------



## Asound

When can we expect some first impressions of the ASF?
I am really curios regarding these and I want to upgrade. Just thinking about their high ba-driver count, haha. I know that more drivers do not automatically produce a better sound.

Right now I am using the AS10, which I acquired over a year ago. Alltough I can fairly say that these are the best iem's I ever had. I am not a huge fan of the sound signature They are to dark/bassy for me. So I would like to upgrade to something more fitting now.

The ZAX sounds like a no brainer. But depending on what the ASF can do, I will probably go with these.

Can anybody comment on how the the ZAX should compare to the AS10? From what I gathered here, the ZAX should be brighter. Is this correct? Also how well do the ZAX block the surroundings? Judging by the big vents, I fear that this might be affected.


----------



## hmscott (Oct 14, 2020)

Asound said:


> *When can we expect some first impressions of the ASF?*
> I am really curios regarding these and I want to upgrade. Just thinking about their high ba-driver count, haha. I know that more drivers do not automatically produce a better sound.
> 
> Right now I am using the AS10, which I acquired over a year ago. Alltough I can fairly say that these are the best iem's I ever had. I am not a huge fan of the sound signature They are to dark/bassy for me. So I would like to upgrade to something more fitting now.
> ...


The Tips have a lot to do with blocking outside sounds, and the ALZA SednaFit ML's on the ZAX cut out sound better than most on the same tips.  You are heading the right direction getting good fitting tips as a priority.

The ZAX's big vents are only a façade meant to create nice visual's.  The Silver ZAX has little black screens visible through the slits.  It looks very nice.  I thought I'd like the black ones better, but once again the Silver looks great too.

The KZ ASF looks interesting too, but I usually prefer a DD along with the BA's.  The ASF has 5 BA's while the ZAX has 1DD+7BA's, wild, right?

How did KZ do such an amazing job merging all of those BA's and DD in the ZAX, and get the result to be so smooth - usually so many BA's sound like a mis-matched mess to me.  In comparison the KZ ZAX makes it look easy.

Meanwhile, the KZ ASX looks wild, 20 BA's!
https://hifigo.com/collections/new-arrival/products/kz-asx
https://www.linsoul.com/products/kz-asx


----------



## purplesun (Oct 14, 2020)

Asound said:


> Right now I am using the AS10, which I acquired over a year ago. Alltough I can fairly say that these are the best iem's I ever had. I am not a huge fan of the sound signature They are to dark/bassy for me. So I would like to upgrade to something more fitting now.
> 
> Can anybody comment on how the the ZAX should compare to the AS10? From what I gathered here, the ZAX should be brighter. Is this correct? Also how well do the ZAX block the surroundings? Judging by the big vents, I fear that this might be affected.


ZAX is several rungs higher than AS10 (on stock cable) in terms of treble brightness. While AS10's sound isolation (with good ear tip seal) is one of the best I've heard. Being a BA-only IEM with sealed housing; it's kind of their stock-in-trade.

Sidenote: If you like AS10's sound, except for its dark signature, I recommend you invest in a $5 KZ silver cable and give that a try. If it's still not sparkly enough, then go for more trebly IEM from KZ/CCA product range; there's lots to choose from.


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> ZAX is several rungs higher than AS10 (on stock cable) in terms of treble brightness. While AS10's sound isolation (with good ear tip seal) is one of the best I've heard. Being a BA-only IEM with sealed housing; it's kind of their stock-in-trade.
> 
> Sidenote: If you like AS10's sound, except for its dark signature, I recommend you invest in a $5 KZ silver cable and give that a try. If it's still not sparkly enough, then go for more trebly IEM from KZ/CCA product range; there's lots to choose from.


Or just buy the ZAX which comes with the silver cable.


----------



## purplesun

voicemaster said:


> Or just buy the ZAX which comes with the silver cable.


If only KZ kept the same damn connectors for all their IEMs - but that would be asking too much of them!


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> If only KZ kept the same damn connectors for all their IEMs - but that would be asking too much of them!


Oh yeah forgot that the as10 use the old 2pin connector.


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> If only KZ kept the same damn connectors for all their IEMs - but that would be asking too much of them!


Very true.
KZ plastic choice for "paragraph C" is quite bad, while the old connectors worked perfectly.

I got a backup AS10 almost right way, it is still sealed - the first one perfectly survived more than a year of heavy use and all the cable testing


----------



## Viber

What the hell?  they're not still using the old 0.75mm 2pins from the ZS1-ZS6 era?  Looks the same.


----------



## Slater

Asound said:


> When can we expect some first impressions of the ASF?



They haven’t even started shipping them yet. Then you have the normal shipping times on top of that. So I’d say it’s going to be a month at least before we start seeing impressions rolling in.


----------



## Slater

FYI, the EDX uses the old socket (Paragraph B to be exact).


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Oct 15, 2020)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Yeah, better to hear some sibilances, than to have a bad treble implementation like CA16. After this terrible experience, I'll wait for a review or at least measurements (ASF, ASX)



I admit I'm weird and I'd rather the treble soften a bit if it means I have albums I can enjoy now that I otherwise couldn't. Maybe if the net loss was more than the net gain it'd be a problem, but I can definitely put up with some softer treble than I'd like if the trade is not having nails in my ears on other albums.

I'm heavily curious about the ASX. I'm aware of the general impression of why DDs are better for the lows, but the ol' Shure SE846 shows that you can have a thunderous bass region just with 2 BAs so it's more about implementation than precisely what the speakers are.

Right now I'm feeling in the mood to pick up my "non-flagship flagship" whether it's a $100 KZ offering or a $300-ish set from another company.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SomeGuyDude said:


> I admit I'm weird and I'd rather the treble soften a bit if it means I have albums I can enjoy now that I otherwise couldn't. Maybe if the net loss was more than the net gain it'd be a problem, but I can definitely put up with some softer treble than I'd like if the trade is not having nails in my ears on other albums.


I actually agree with you. I rather have a bit lower treble quantity than a bit too much treble quantity (that in most cases leads to sharpness or sibilance).

Because if the treble is a bit sharp, you cant fully relax while listening to music because you are always on the lookout for a track that is sharp. 

But of course there are some exception where even if the iem has tons of treble quantity, it isnt sharp at all. That is the case for example with the LZ A6/A7 and the Tin Hifi P1.


----------



## rayliam80

I've had the ZAX for about 3 weeks now. Not sure if it's just my ears or fit, but I get a small bit of driver flex on the left side with my pair on insertion. I haven't noticed any change of its sound despite this. I paired it with a Tripowin Zonie 16 cable but the included silver cable is very good too. With the Zonie 16, the mids push a little more forward but the treble takes a backseat compared to the included silver cable. But I mostly prefer the feel of the Zonie 16 and its chin slider. I'd be quite happy with just the silver cable alone if I didn't like or have a need for a chin slider. 

Swapping between the ZAX, ZS10 Pro and the CCA C12 - I'd say the ZS10 Pro is a full step back and the C12 is a half step back from the ZAX. The ZAX just seems more resolving especially in the treble region - cymbals sound more crisp and real, almost approaching what cymbals sound like on my Etymotic ER3SE. I prefer the tonality of the  mids on my Tin Audio P1 but I prefer the treble of the ZAX. Bass is just enough on the ZAX to keep everything from being uncluttered and seems to strike a good balance. Its that kind of bass that feels like it's there when it needs to be.The C12 has a bit more punch to it in the bass region, a bit more fun to listen to while being almost as resolving as the ZAX but definitely benefits more from a "better cable" whereas this isn't so much the case, at least with what cables I have, with the ZAX. 

With the other IEMs that I own that are $100 plus, these are definitely in league with them - not that price is everything but you are definitely getting your money's worth. Overall, I'm just really happy with these. I can't really say much more than what most have said on this thread. I'm quite curious about the ASX. I'm hoping it retains or improves upon the treble of the ZAX and has faster bass since it's all BA and won't have the same power requirements like the P1.


----------



## vulkarie

Anyone got the KZ ASF/ASX already? Please make a review of it, can't find any on the internet


----------



## Slater

vulkarie said:


> Anyone got the KZ ASF/ASX already? Please make a review of it, can't find any on the internet



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3446#post-15919746


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3446#post-15919746


ASX was shipped by KZ on Oct13-th.  Two weeks is the most optimistic to get it for me in Canada with the noble pace of Canada Post


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> ASX was shipped by KZ on Oct13-th.  Two weeks is the most optimistic to get it for me in Canada with the noble pace of Canada Post



I thought it was Oct 31. I guess I mixed the dates up.


----------



## Makahl

vulkarie said:


> Anyone got the KZ ASF/ASX already? Please make a review of it, can't find any on the internet



I saw some pics floating elsewhere of the ASX (it's not mine) but no impressions yet.









Probably the black version would suit my taste better .


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> I thought it was Oct 31. I guess I mixed the dates up.


They planned to ship around Oct 15, then the shipping on Oct 13 is real (not just the shipping numbers created), I was among the first 10 to order ASX 

I may get ASF later.
At the moment ASF seem relatively less attractive compared to the long-awaited 20-driver (that was first rumored on March 1, 2019) , and then I hope that CCA will follow with their analogue


----------



## voicemaster

Mine (ASX) has been shipped and if the shipping time is about the same time as my ZAX, it will be here in about 9 days from today.


----------



## Asound

hmscott said:


> The KZ ASF looks interesting too, but I usually prefer a DD along with the BA's. The ASF has 5 BA's while the ZAX has 1DD+7BA's, wild, right?
> 
> How did KZ do such an amazing job merging all of those BA's and DD in the ZAX, and get the result to be so smooth - usually so many BA's sound like a mis-matched mess to me. In comparison the KZ ZAX makes it look easy.
> 
> Meanwhile, the KZ ASX looks wild, 20 BA's!



Oh yeah, the ASX looks like a beast! That is also the one I am interested in. I mixed that up with the ASF, heh.



purplesun said:


> Sidenote: If you like AS10's sound, except for its dark signature, I recommend you invest in a $5 KZ silver cable and give that a try. If it's still not sparkly enough, then go for more trebly IEM from KZ/CCA product range; there's lots to choose from.



I have the gold/silver cable. Which did not make a difference from what I can tell, though I did not compare it thoroughly.


----------



## trumpethead

Just gonna leave this link for zs10 pro for under 10 bucks shipped.. Hope it's legit, I ordered two pair.. Proceed at your own risk https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/324325710634
Looks legit, seller has 100% feedback ships from Singapore.. Keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RikudouGoku said:


> I actually agree with you. I rather have a bit lower treble quantity than a bit too much treble quantity (that in most cases leads to sharpness or sibilance).
> 
> Because if the treble is a bit sharp, you cant fully relax while listening to music because you are always on the lookout for a track that is sharp.
> 
> But of course there are some exception where even if the iem has tons of treble quantity, it isnt sharp at all. That is the case for example with the LZ A6/A7 and the Tin Hifi P1.



I'm curious about the A7, it's near the top of my list right now. The filters are a big factor in that, too. I liked the se846 for that.


----------



## kmmbd

So I reviewed the KZ ZST X, and it's a pretty good budget hybrid if you like V-shaped signature. The stock cable is much improved over previous KZ offerings, Starline tips are as awesome as always and the tuning isn't fatiguing or harsh for the most part. A beater IEM that will probably serve well during commutes.

You can read the full review here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zst-x.24513/review/24539/


----------



## baskingshark

trumpethead said:


> Just gonna leave this link for zs10 pro for under 10 bucks shipped.. Hope it's legit, I ordered two pair.. Proceed at your own risk https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/324325710634
> Looks legit, seller has 100% feedback ships from Singapore.. Keeping fingers crossed.



Wow that's a crazily good deal! Thanks for sharing. Would have bought one if I didn't already buy one in the past.

I took a listen to the KZ ZS10 Pro last week after it was in my drawer for a year, it hasn't aged that bad IMO, still quite good technical performance in 2020. In fact it has better tonality and timbre than the recently released CCA C10 Pro, maybe better imaging and soundstage in the ZS10 Pro too.

Probably some of the newer KZs like ASX and ASF and ZAX may beat the ZS10 Pro in technical performance, but for $10 this is a great deal (assuming it is legit).


----------



## Viber

trumpethead said:


> Just gonna leave this link for zs10 pro for under 10 bucks shipped.. Hope it's legit, I ordered two pair.. Proceed at your own risk https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/324325710634
> Looks legit, seller has 100% feedback ships from Singapore.. Keeping fingers crossed.



I bet he'll send the ZSN pro, they seem similar. 

I tried to order the blue one, but someone beat me to it lol... now i don't know if to order the purple as i am not a fancy boy.


----------



## Viber (Oct 15, 2020)

Ok, i've fallen for the ZS10 pro scam too 

I hope we'll get our money back after he sends us empty boxes.
102 sold overall


----------



## courierdriver

"I took a listen to the KZ ZS10 Pro last week after it was in my drawer for a year, it hasn't aged that bad IMO, still quite good technical performance in 2020. In fact it has better tonality and timbre than the recently released CCA C10 Pro, maybe better imaging and soundstage in the ZS10 Pro too"
I agree wholeheartedly. ZS10 PRO for me, is the type of iem that makes me want to listen to multiple genres for hours, even when I'm tired and should be going to bed. I have to force myself to stop listening to them, so I can get some sleep. Never have to do that with other iems I own. It's a good problem to have, though. Lol!


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> Ok, i've fallen for the ZS10 pro scam too
> 
> I hope we'll get our money back after he sends us empty boxes.
> 102 sold overall



damn it me too, I got 3, worst comes to worst, I will report fraud.


----------



## Viber

alamnp said:


> damn it me too, I got 3, worst comes to worst, I will report fraud.



That's my idea too, ebay will have to refund everyone right? it's at least 80 costumers.
I really have no idea how these things work.


----------



## Wgibson

Good luck on those ZS10 pros... I absolutely hated the sound of the ZS10, out of probably 25+ chifi iems that was the worst I've heard. Hoping maybe they were defective, but both sides sounded so hollow in the mids with no real redeeming qualities... Anyway, decent deal even if it shows up a ZSN pro I guess.


----------



## unifutomaki

courierdriver said:


> "I took a listen to the KZ ZS10 Pro last week after it was in my drawer for a year, it hasn't aged that bad IMO, still quite good technical performance in 2020. In fact it has better tonality and timbre than the recently released CCA C10 Pro, maybe better imaging and soundstage in the ZS10 Pro too"
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly. ZS10 PRO for me, is the type of iem that makes me want to listen to multiple genres for hours, even when I'm tired and should be going to bed. I have to force myself to stop listening to them, so I can get some sleep. Never have to do that with other iems I own. It's a good problem to have, though. Lol!



This, but the ZAX for me


----------



## alamnp

Wgibson said:


> Good luck on those ZS10 pros... I absolutely hated the sound of the ZS10, out of probably 25+ chifi iems that was the worst I've heard. Hoping maybe they were defective, but both sides sounded so hollow in the mids with no real redeeming qualities... Anyway, decent deal even if it shows up a ZSN pro I guess.



you might get a lemon, ZS10 pro has close representation with ZAX, I modded mine sounded really close to my ZAX.


----------



## alamnp

unifutomaki said:


> This, but the ZAX for me



CCA CA16 for long hour listening, ZAX for working, ZS10 Pro for beat up workout - it's falling apart already, the pin site already broken - I am going to use it until it's completely unusable, ZS6  same as ZS10 Pro. 

Waiting for my TRN V90s and TFZ tequila (bought 3) from last amazon lightning deal - this is a good Xmas gift.


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> That's my idea too, ebay will have to refund everyone right? it's at least 80 costumers.
> I really have no idea how these things work.



I hope, that will be the ZS10 pro and not the lemon ones... thinking gifting them to some of my friends at Xmas


----------



## astermk (Oct 16, 2020)

Ah, the ZS10 Pro. Insanely great IEM for the price point when it came out a year and a half ago. I seriously loved mine, but the ZAX is like a ZS10 Pro that does virtually everything better: better treble extension but less harshness and shoutiness, less bass* but more agile and textured bass, more detail and clarity* across the board, huge difference in soundstage, more precise imaging and layering...I love the ZS10 Pro and I think at the $25 price point they still slap, but the ZAX are straight up superior in every way I can think of. And more versatile because it's a less intense V shape.

*While the ZAX have less bass, and graph that way, due to vastly better instrument separation, bass guitars for example are much more perceptible and isolable, so while it's less bass, you actually _hear _that bass as something specific, whereas on the ZS10 Pro it's just mud. It's glorious hearing for the first time bass guitars on records where you've literally never noticed them before because they disappeared into the mix, and not only that but also hearing in precise detail the distortion of the amp, each fingerpick etc.

*Detail and clarity comes mostly, but not entirely, from the added upper treble, I think. But anyway, the ZAX are able to reveal many other things that less resolving KZs can't, all across the spectrum. Reverb on vocals that is otherwise hardly audible, defined scratchiness in vocals, etc. I'm amazed to think there are IEMs that are significantly more detailed and technical than even this.

That said, the ZS10 Pro do the "fun sound" really well. I happen to think the CCA C12 outdo them in the fun department along with being slightly more technical for a $3-4 price difference. But their V was too extreme for me and I find their mids thin. Still, fun they are.

ZS10 Pro are amazing for $25. ZAX for $49 are my favorite IEM purchase. Overall, I don't understand why some audiophiles take a condescending view of KZ. I think they make some of the best <$100 stuff for sure. Hoping the ASX is great now so that they can continue upmarket.


----------



## Viber

astermk said:


> Ah, the ZS10 Pro. Insanely great IEM for the price point when it came out a year and a half ago. I seriously loved mine, but the ZAX is like a ZS10 Pro that does virtually everything better: better treble extension but less harshness and shoutiness, less bass* but more agile and textured bass, more detail and clarity* across the board, huge difference in soundstage, more precise imaging and layering...I love the ZS10 Pro and I think at the $25 price point they still slap, but the ZAX are straight up superior in every way I can think of. And more versatile because it's a less intense V shape.
> 
> *While the ZAX have less bass, and graph that way, due to vastly better instrument separation, bass guitars for example are much more perceptible and isolable, so while it's less bass, you actually _hear _that bass as something specific, whereas on the ZS10 Pro it's just mud. It's glorious hearing for the first time bass guitars on records where you've literally never noticed them before because they disappeared into the mix, and not only that but also hearing in precise detail the distortion of the amp, each fingerpick etc.
> 
> ...



Dude, we bought the ZS10pro for less than 10$ , ZAX costs 5+ times more and has plenty of lukewarm reviews.   I bet that with a bit of EQ and even a small mod if necessary they can be pretty close in performance.


----------



## Viber

lol,  i couldn't help myself from politely asking him if he's a scammer.


----------



## astermk

Viber said:


> Dude, we bought the ZS10pro for less than 10$ , ZAX costs 5+ times more and has plenty of lukewarm reviews.   I bet that with a bit of EQ and even a small mod if necessary they can be pretty close in performance.


The ZS10 Pro are a steal for $10. That said, they are not close to the ZAX sound wise and EQ will not get them there. You can't EQ technical ability for the most part. The ZAX aren't 5 times better (maybe not even 2 times better) but they are very appreciably better. I have both and I have a soft spot for the ZS10 Pro as they were my first IEM and I still think they're good but the two are in a different class.


----------



## Nimweth

astermk said:


> The ZS10 Pro are a steal for $10. That said, they are not close to the ZAX sound wise and EQ will not get them there. You can't EQ technical ability for the most part. The ZAX aren't 5 times better (maybe not even 2 times better) but they are very appreciably better. I have both and I have a soft spot for the ZS10 Pro as they were my first IEM and I still think they're good but the two are in a different class.


I agree. I have been A-B'ing them and the ZS10 Pro is significantly recessed in the mids compared to the ZAX. The ZAX also has better bass, more detail and more extended highs without glare.


----------



## Viber

astermk said:


> The ZS10 Pro are a steal for $10. That said, they are not close to the ZAX sound wise and EQ will not get them there. You can't EQ technical ability for the most part. The ZAX aren't 5 times better (maybe not even 2 times better) but they are very appreciably better. I have both and I have a soft spot for the ZS10 Pro as they were my first IEM and I still think they're good but the two are in a different class.



This is what i thought about ZS5 vs ZS6 and now i tend to use my modded\EQd ZS5 more even though i'm 100% sure the ZS6 are better technically.

ZAX are not liked across the board so i'm not craving them personally. 
 If the ZS10p be better than my ZSR then i'll be very happy with them.

But none of this matters because we'll get empty boxes anyway


----------



## unifutomaki

Viber said:


> ZAX are not liked across the board so i'm not craving them personally.



Very few things in life are liked across the board. Even chocolate.


----------



## Viber

unifutomaki said:


> Very few things in life are liked across the board. Even chocolate.




I'm not going to put ZAX in same class as  chocolate, no way.


----------



## SomeGuyDude (Oct 16, 2020)

astermk said:


> The ZS10 Pro are a steal for $10. That said, they are not close to the ZAX sound wise and EQ will not get them there. You can't EQ technical ability for the most part. The ZAX aren't 5 times better (maybe not even 2 times better) but they are very appreciably better. I have both and I have a soft spot for the ZS10 Pro as they were my first IEM and I still think they're good but the two are in a different class.



I feel like calling something "however many times better" when the price is in the double digits is a bit disingenuous anyway. Ratios break apart when the numbers are small. When the price difference is about what it costs to take a date to the movies as long as you bring your own snacks, as long as it's a NOTICEABLE improvement, it's worth it.

Like if I'm buying something that costs $250 and someone suggests buying a $500 model, now "twice as good" starts to be more important but the price gap is fairly wide.


----------



## theguy69

Hi. I was wondering how much unit variance exists in kz iem's. I'm kinda new here so pardon me if this is a weird question.


----------



## unifutomaki

theguy69 said:


> Hi. I was wondering how much unit variance exists in kz iem's. I'm kinda new here so pardon me if this is a weird question.



That question is not addressable because it is unlikely that anyone will have a large enough sample size of any single KZ model to be able to obtain a reliable variance estimate


----------



## PhonoPhi

Viber said:


> I'm not going to put ZAX in same class as  chocolate, no way.


IEMs are better for sure.
You listen to them and enjoy for hours and hours, while chocolate is gone in a minute, and then you need to get some more and you can't eat it all


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> IEMs are better for sure.
> You listen to them and enjoy for hours and hours, while chocolate is gone in a minute, and then you need to get some more and you can't eat it all


You also get more calories with chocolate.   
You cant get fatter with iems lol.


----------



## unifutomaki

RikudouGoku said:


> You also get more calories with chocolate.
> You cant get fatter with iems lol.



Chocolate makes IEMs sound sweeter, you heard it here first


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> You also get more calories with chocolate.
> You cant get fatter with iems lol.



Haha u can get hearing loss with IEMs! And I have actually gotten fatter with IEMs, cause I spend more time indoors listening to gear than outside doing sports (before I got into this hobby).

Anyway, there's one IEM that is likened to a box of chocolates, that is the Urbanfun YBF-ISS014. As forrest gump and @lgcubana says, “My mom always said life was like a box of Urbanfuns. You never know what you're gonna get.” Will you get a beryllium driver or "noble metal" driver Urbanfun? Will you get a working MMCX or a lemon?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Haha u can get hearing loss with IEMs! And I have actually gotten fatter with IEMs, cause I spend more time indoors listening to gear than outside doing sports (before I got into this hobby).
> 
> Anyway, there's one IEM that is likened to a box of chocolates, that is the Urbanfun YBF-ISS014. As forrest gump and @lgcubana says, “My mom always said life was like a box of Urbanfuns. You never know what you're gonna get.” Will you get a beryllium driver or "noble metal" driver Urbanfun? Will you get a working MMCX or a lemon?


such a shame with the urbanfun......(and all other iems with poor QC)


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> lol,  i couldn't help myself from politely asking him if he's a scammer.



I checked last night, and the guy was sold out. Now magically today he has plenty of every color and microphone configuration in stock.

Also, his seller profile says he’s from Australia, but supposedly the ZS10 Pro is shipping from Singapore.

I’m gonna chalk this one up to ‘if it’s too good to be true it probably is’, and avoid this deal. How this guy is able to sell them for a fraction of what everyone else is selling them for is highly suspicious. I’ll honestly be shocked if you guys all get your ZS10s, and that they are NIB, factory sealed, and fully functional.

But, who knows. I would have never thought you could buy 30 Starlines for $0.99 shipped, and that turned out to be legit. So stranger things have happened!


----------



## kokadon

Suggest me Buying my first IEM around 20$, i listen mostly EDM, tropical house, chill.


----------



## alamnp

Slater said:


> I checked last night, and the guy was sold out. Now magically today he has plenty of every color and microphone configuration in stock.
> 
> Also, his seller profile says he’s from Australia, but supposedly the ZS10 Pro is shipping from Singapore.
> 
> ...



we might get lemons, but then paying with paypal anyway, should be protected


----------



## alamnp

also just got $50 TFZ Tequila which usually $140, I like the sound signature and more comfy than ZAX. everything is just about right. I need to burn it for another 10 days.


----------



## voicemaster

kokadon said:


> Suggest me Buying my first IEM around 20$, i listen mostly EDM, tropical house, chill.


The EDX maybe?


----------



## alamnp

kokadon said:


> Suggest me Buying my first IEM around 20$, i listen mostly EDM, tropical house, chill.



i suggest KZ ED9, I will start with that as the most basic, also, pretty good with EQ, pretty comfy since it's pretty small.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> I checked last night, and the guy was sold out. Now magically today he has plenty of every color and microphone configuration in stock.
> 
> Also, his seller profile says he’s from Australia, but supposedly the ZS10 Pro is shipping from Singapore.
> 
> ...



Maybe he wanted to handle the shipping load? He already provided me with a tracking number.

The thing that bothers me the most TBH is the fact he could sell it for twice more or 50% more and it would still sell like crazy.  Why leave money on the table?  The second thing is him not having even 100 feedbacks yet he sells hundreds of products during 1 month.

TBH, i think he got in contact with some shady Alibaba seller who fooled him into a deal.

25% we get the Zsn pro
25% we'll get ZS10pro in an unknown condition (factory rejects? New? Covid infected?)
50% this is a sold/hijacked account which will be deleted soon and we get nothing/money refund.


----------



## Viber

kokadon said:


> Suggest me Buying my first IEM around 20$, i listen mostly EDM, tropical house, chill.



I don't have experience with new models, but KZ Zsr cost 14$ and provide great bang for the buck.  Nozzle is great and fit good as well.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

theguy69 said:


> Hi. I was wondering how much unit variance exists in kz iem's. I'm kinda new here so pardon me if this is a weird question.



It used to be baaaaad, but it does seem like in recent times they're no more or less prone to such issues as anyone else.

Like some here might remember when it turned out sometimes the BA drivers weren't even wired to anything lol.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Viber said:


> Maybe he wanted to handle the shipping load? He already provided me with a tracking number.
> 
> The thing that bothers me the most TBH is the fact he could sell it for twice more or 50% more and it would still sell like crazy.  Why leave money on the table?  The second thing is him not having even 100 feedbacks yet he sells hundreds of products during 1 month.
> 
> ...



Sounds like he tried to get into mass selling at a very low price to get himself a ton of good feedback, sort of a forward investment. It makes sense. Guy manages to score a boatload of products for cheap, sell them at cost and get a few hundred five star reviews and now when you go into more normal business you've got that reputation.


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> Maybe he wanted to handle the shipping load? He already provided me with a tracking number.
> 
> The thing that bothers me the most TBH is the fact he could sell it for twice more or 50% more and it would still sell like crazy.  Why leave money on the table?  The second thing is him not having even 100 feedbacks yet he sells hundreds of products during 1 month.
> 
> ...



LOL I LIKE COVID INFECTED.


----------



## alamnp

SomeGuyDude said:


> It used to be baaaaad, but it does seem like in recent times they're no more or less prone to such issues as anyone else.
> 
> Like some here might remember when it turned out sometimes the BA drivers weren't even wired to anything lol.



For Chifi... $50-$150 the sound signature only differ by a bit, what makes a difference the accessories which comes with it. etc.

CCA CA16 out of the box with stock cable and tip suck like dick, you have to purchase cable upgrade and tip upgrade which costs me another $40.

Then we got ZAX for $70, which already good, without any upgrade, fit wise... ehhhh

ZS10 pro for $45, prior to ZAX, I said WOW... then comes CA16 and ZAX oooo

TRN BA5 and coming V90s, they sounded minimally different. 

TFZ and and previously Simgot...

YMMV for each..., I have total of 16 IEMs. I have yet invested in $250+ IEM yet, cos I am already pretty happy with whatever that I have.

And every time I gifted one of these to lay people who only knows JBL/Beats/AKG... they will say... "WOW" What!!! THANK YOU I LOVE IT! LoL. I like the response.


----------



## trumpethead

Viber said:


> Ok, i've fallen for the ZS10 pro scam too
> 
> I hope we'll get our money back after he sends us empty boxes.
> 102 sold overall


I think we are good. The description clearly says zs10 pro. Both of mine have shipped with "tracking numbers". Plus EBay is pretty good at refunding if there is obvious wrongdoing.....Good luck!!


----------



## purplesun

kokadon said:


> Suggest me Buying my first IEM around 20$, i listen mostly EDM, tropical house, chill.


For a bright, punchy sound, for that price, I'd say probably the ZSN or pro.
A bit more balanced, less punchy sound,. probably the ZSTX.
The new EDX (I've not heard) seems decent in review as well.


----------



## alamnp

purplesun said:


> For a bright, punchy sound, for that price, I'd say probably the ZSN or pro.
> A bit more balanced, less punchy sound,. probably the ZSTX.
> The new EDX (I've not heard) seems decent in review as well.




for that price for ZSN Pro, you might be startled with the brightness and overly V shaped sound.
ZSTX is good, but you could get ED9 for $9 shipped on aliexpress
The EDX, I would not touch for now... some reviews ehhhh.... well you can't complained for $7 IEM.

if you can go to ebay and get ZS10 Pro for $10, I got 3 myself, and I ALREADY have one with me...

if ZS10 Pro for $10 still available grab it, it will be the best $10 you ever spend


----------



## purplesun

alamnp said:


> for that price for ZSN Pro, you might be startled with the brightness and overly V shaped sound.


Yeah, I hated the treble response of the ZSN and gave it away to friend's son. He was big into EDM & house and absolutely loved it!!


----------



## alamnp

purplesun said:


> Yeah, I hated the treble response of the ZSN and gave it away to friend's son. He was big into EDM & house and absolutely loved it!!



https://www.amazon.com/FRAGRANT-ZIT...3N5K0QW89R7&psc=1&refRID=ZZC7Y51T03N5K0QW89R7

they have some left... 

I got in during Amazon Prime Day, one of the best IEM sub $200, definitely better than ZAX, very mature sounds, I am burning it in, 40 more hours.


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Haha u can get hearing loss with IEMs! And I have actually gotten fatter with IEMs, cause I spend more time indoors listening to gear than outside doing sports (before I got into this hobby).
> 
> Anyway, there's one IEM that is likened to a box of chocolates, that is the Urbanfun YBF-ISS014. As forrest gump and @lgcubana says, “My mom always said life was like a box of Urbanfuns. You never know what you're gonna get.” Will you get a beryllium driver or "noble metal" driver Urbanfun? Will you get a working MMCX or a lemon?


Yes! Absolutely PERFECT analogy. Thanks for that!


----------



## alamnp

courierdriver said:


> Yes! Absolutely PERFECT analogy. Thanks for that!



bwaahahaha yeah those driver will make you fat for sure


----------



## purplesun

alamnp said:


> https://www.amazon.com/FRAGRANT-ZIT...3N5K0QW89R7&psc=1&refRID=ZZC7Y51T03N5K0QW89R7
> they have some left...


Thanks but I am good. Not much of a earphone/IEM collector these days. I just bought a few to distract myself during COVID shut-ins, that's all.


----------



## richario

Viber said:


> Anyone ordered the ASF?


Yep, finally dispatched - my favourite combo.is AS10 / BT20S,  I'm really hoping the new ASF are an evolution of the same sound. Also waiting on the BT20s pro to pair them with, looking forward to the charging case and tws style auto turn on and pairing.


----------



## Viber

richario said:


> Yep, finally dispatched - my favourite combo.is AS10 / BT20S,  I'm really hoping the new ASF are an evolution of the same sound. Also waiting on the BT20s pro to pair them with, looking forward to the charging case and tws style auto turn on and pairing.



Nice, there's a chance those will sound more pleasant than ASX.  Don't forget to post impressions here


----------



## Viber (Oct 17, 2020)

OK guys, *the ZS10 Pro sale is shaping up to indeed be a scam.*
The guy emptied his store, which is definitely a stage in hijacked accounts scams.   I followed this type of events at least twice now.





I'm guessing Ebay will look into things soon if they aren't already as the store will be closed soon.
Tracking number provided ~28 hours ago is not in Singapore post system according to their website.

What should we do?

Edit: now he sent me a message saying he can do the color switch to blue that i asked for lol


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

kokadon said:


> Suggest me Buying my first IEM around 20$, i listen mostly EDM, tropical house, chill.


For EDM and similar genres, EDX is my choice.


----------



## IEMusic

The ASX is a lot more V-shaped than I had hoped for, and seems to really lack treble.  Hopefully it sounds a lot better than the graph suggests.





Same with the ASF.





Now the ZAX.


----------



## IEMusic

Fearless S8F is a renowned all-BA V-shaped IEM.  ASX FR is very different unfortunately.


ASX vs ASF = extremely similar FR.


ASX vs ZAX.  ZAX‘s graph looks a lot better to me.


Lastly, I‘ve been curious how these 2 FR graphs compare.


----------



## astermk

Oof. ASX and ASF are NOT going to fare well on Crin's IEM ranking list based on tonality alone, I reckon. ZAX have a better shot though.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

I can't remember where I read it, but KZ confirmed that they want to continue the current tuning trend .... V-shape plus clarity.


----------



## IEMusic

xxAMAROKxx said:


> I can't remember where I read it, but KZ confirmed that they want to continue the current tuning trend .... V-shape plus clarity.


V-shaped is fine, but I was hoping that it would be tuned closer to the Fearless S8F or the AudioSense T800.


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> OK guys, *the ZS10 Pro sale is shaping up to indeed be a scam.*
> The guy emptied his store, which is definitely a stage in hijacked accounts scams.   I followed this type of events at least twice now.
> 
> 
> ...




damn


----------



## astermk

By ear, it seemed to me that the ZAX is like a much more capable ZS10 Pro, and, well...



Those are tuning differences so small that if the curves weren't labelled you'd think they're L/R measurements from the same IEM. That's negligible. As I said, EQ won't get the ZS10 Pro near the ZAX because tuning wise it's already there.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 17, 2020)

IEMusic said:


> V-shaped is fine, but I was hoping that it would be tuned closer to the Fearless S8F or the AudioSense T800.


Well, then they may nail it either in C20 or BAX.
On a positive, just one BA gives the bass response similar to ZAX in these limited measurements of course)


----------



## Viber

astermk said:


> By ear, it seemed to me that the ZAX is like a much more capable ZS10 Pro, and, well...
> 
> Those are tuning differences so small that if the curves weren't labelled you'd think they're L/R measurements from the same IEM. That's negligible. As I said, EQ won't get the ZS10 Pro near the ZAX because tuning wise it's already there.



I thought it was agreed years ago that graphs are nice, but almost pointless.
I log in today and see like 10 response graphs on this site.

As i said earlier, The ZS10pro thing is shaping out to be a scam so that product will be forgotten here soon anyways.


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 17, 2020)

Viber said:


> I thought it was agreed years ago that graphs are nice, but almost pointless.
> I log in today and see like 10 response graphs on this site.
> 
> As i said earlier, The ZS10pro thing is shaping out to be a scam so that product will be forgotten here soon anyways.



why are you saying ZS10pro will be forgotten? Because you got scammed by some shady ebay seller? Product still exists. I am listening to mine right now and it is still relevant and sounds enjoyable.

agreed years ago by who?

I am sorry but graphs are not pointless if you know how to decipher them.
They can be valuable tools to assess general tonality of the headgears.


----------



## IEMusic (Oct 17, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Well, then they may nail it either in C10 or BAX.
> On a positive, just one BA gives the bass response similar to ZAX in these limited measurements of course)


Very true, and I guess that’s why I’m perhaps just a little frustrated (though still not jumping to any conclusions).  I know KZ/CCA is very capable, and have been coming out with great products lately, and specs-wise/design-wise, the ASX and ASF have so much potential.  I‘m still hoping that they sound amazing.



Viber said:


> I thought it was agreed years ago that graphs are nice, but almost pointless.
> I log in today and see like 10 response graphs on this site.


I don’t know who agreed to that, but graphs are hardly pointless.  Like any tool, they need to be used correctly, and not overused.  I posted the graphs because a lot of people are curious about the ASX and ASF, and unfortunately, no one has their units yet to post listening impressions.  And....



astermk said:


> *By ear, it seemed to me that the ZAX is like a much more capable ZS10 Pro*, and, well...
> 
> Those are tuning differences so small that if the curves weren't labelled you'd think they're L/R measurements from the same IEM. That's negligible. As I said, EQ won't get the ZS10 Pro near the ZAX because tuning wise it's already there.


This is a perfect example of the limitations of graphs.  It would be very ignorant for me to claim that there is no difference between the ZS10 Pro and the ZAX simply because of the graph similarities.  I do believe those who say that the to their ears, the ZAX is better.  I see this all of the time, even with very educated professionals (not necessarily audio related).  They they see a negative diagnostic test, and they come to the broad conclusion that nothing is wrong.  This is a misuse or misunderstanding of the test.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> Well, then they may nail it either in C20 or BAX.


Dug in my foxhole & waiting for that slow-moving person (C20) to breach my perimeter! Sir!


----------



## Viber (Oct 17, 2020)

tgx78 said:


> why are you saying ZS10pro will be forgotten? Because you got scammed by some shady ebay seller? Product still exists. I am listening to mine right now and it is still relevant and sounds enjoyable.
> 
> agreed years ago by who?
> 
> ...



I'm saying they will be forgotten because there are many models which came after it.   You see anyone discussing ZS3 or ATR now? every product has it's time in the lights in terms of consumer attention and public discussions.

I said graphs are nice but almost pointless because at the end of the day no one with audio experience makes a decision whether or not to buy an item based on frequency graphs.  They give some indications of course! but there are other factors which determine the sound perception for each individual.

For example, a headband which is not properly suited for small heads would output a different sound for two random consumers.  Same goes for IEMs with shallow\wide\narrow\long nozzles or two users with different hearing sensitiveness etc and then you have different earpads\Tips,wings and so on.


And also, i find it hard to believe those two IEMs are tuned exactly the same up until 4K and then it's almost the same for the rest of it.  I tend to question the testing rig in that case.


----------



## courierdriver

tgx78 said:


> why are you saying ZS10pro will be forgotten? Because you got scammed by some shady ebay seller? Product still exists. I am listening to mine right now and it is still relevant and sounds enjoyable.
> 
> agreed years ago by who?
> 
> ...


Yeah! ZS10 PRO definitely won't be forgotten. I've bought 3 sets now (one set I gave away last Christmas to my brother in law...he loved them so much that he bought another set for $20+ more). These are seriously good iems for the price. Many people have them now. I highly doubt that they will ever be forgotten. Maybe improved upon, but never forgotten.


----------



## alamnp

courierdriver said:


> Yeah! ZS10 PRO definitely won't be forgotten. I've bought 3 sets now (one set I gave away last Christmas to my brother in law...he loved them so much that he bought another set for $20+ more). These are seriously good iems for the price. Many people have them now. I highly doubt that they will ever be forgotten. Maybe improved upon, but never forgotten.



yupe, I would buy ZS10 Pro than ZAX to gift out...

as previously said before side upgrade, but then some people got pissed, I leave it at that...

KZ - Chifi they're sound signature... pretty much the same, 5-10% difference between models... so really YMMV


----------



## Keputs

kokadon said:


> Suggest me Buying my first IEM around 20$, i listen mostly EDM, tropical house, chill.


The ZSN (not pro or pro+) is my ear candy for these kind of beats.


----------



## astermk (Oct 18, 2020)

alamnp said:


> as previously said before side upgrade,


Mate, entire instruments are audible on the ZAX that the ZS10 Pro completely can't separate from a muddy mix. The ZS10 Pro sound cramped and narrow, the ZAX sound spacious and open. Tuning really is a "sidegrade". Everything else is a bloodbath. That said, I can see how someone would argue the ZS10 Pro are a better value. Diminishing returns are real in the IEM world. You don't need to get the ZAX to have something good sounding. The ZS10 Pro is less than half the price and perfectly decent. But sidegrade? Absolutely no way.


----------



## unifutomaki (Oct 18, 2020)

astermk said:


> Mate, entire instruments are audible on the ZAX that the ZS10 Pro completely can't separate from a muddy mix. The ZS10 Pro sound cramped and narrow, the ZAX sound spacious and open. Tuning really is a "sidegrade". Everything else is a bloodbath. That said, I can see how someone would argue the ZS10 Pro are a better value. Diminishing returns are real in the IEM world. You don't need to get the ZAX to have something good sounding. The ZS10 Pro is less than half the price and perfectly decent. But sidegrade? Absolutely no way.



Trying to make a determination involving a complex multitude of factors (is B an upgrade over A) based on a single data point (FR graph) is not only a fool's errand, it's also bad science.

In fact, if FR tuning is all that matters as to whether B is an upgrade over A, _why stop at the ZS10 Pro_? After all, the good old ZSN delivers pretty much the same KZ sound for the price of 2 McDonald's meals. Why not go for that then?


----------



## theguy69 (Oct 18, 2020)

What do you guys think is the best for mids between the zsn pro x and zst x? By mids I mean like for listening to metal, rock and stuff like pink floyd. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse.


----------



## Asound

IEMusic said:


> The ASX is a lot more V-shaped than I had hoped for, and seems to really lack treble. Hopefully it sounds a lot better than the graph suggests.



Lacks treble? I hoped it would be a brighter IEM than the AS10. Now I fear that it could be even darker.


----------



## Slater (Oct 18, 2020)

EDX with chameleon ‘cats eye’ finish:


----------



## TheVortex

Slater said:


> EDX with ‘cats eye’ finish



Nice work Slater. How did you do that?


----------



## Slater (Oct 18, 2020)

TheVortex said:


> Nice work Slater. How did you do that?



Got the clear ones (which turned out to be smoked, not actually clear), carefully took them apart, painted the inside with cats eye UV paint, and put back together with clear UV epoxy.

They don’t look as good in photos. You really have to see them in person to see the cats eye effect. It’s the same effect as a Tigers Eye gemstone. Really cool.

This video shows the cool effect:



Also, interestingly enough, it seems that there IS actually a true clear EDX, called ‘crystal’. Up until now, the one being sold as “clear” EDX is really smoked transparent, and has a silver X. Well, the crystal one is crystal clear and has a GOLD X.

I went ahead and ordered one, but I don’t know if it’s legit or not yet. Since the only photo was a computer rendering, it’s possible that I’ll just receive another smoked transparent one. I’ll know in a month.

Smoke transparent one:



Crystal clear one:


----------



## alamnp

Slater said:


> Got the clear ones (which turned out to be smoked, not actually clear), carefully took them apart, painted the inside with cats eye UV paint, and put back together with clear UV epoxy.
> 
> They don’t look as good in photos. You really have to see them in person to see the cats eye effect. It’s the same effect as a Tigers Eye gemstone. Really cool.
> 
> ...




thanks, that is really nice, could you put in youtube step by step?


----------



## trumpethead

Slater said:


> Got the clear ones (which turned out to be smoked, not actually clear), carefully took them apart, painted the inside with cats eye UV paint, and put back together with clear UV epoxy.
> 
> They don’t look as good in photos. You really have to see them in person to see the cats eye effect. It’s the same effect as a Tigers Eye gemstone. Really cool.
> 
> ...




I think I like the smoke one better.... Got one on the way. Already recieved ed the black and the white, Not bad at all  considering the price.. Very good fit with large Starlines for me. Easy to run from cell phone, better amped but not absolutely necessary.. Good buy..


----------



## Slater

alamnp said:


> thanks, that is really nice, could you put in youtube step by step?



Working 16 hours a day, I don’t have time for that unfortunately

The video I posted at the top of this page shows the cats eye paint tutorial though. The rest is just prying apart the shell, which is fairly self explanatory.


----------



## Slater

trumpethead said:


> I think I like the smoke one better.... Got one on the way. Already recieved ed the black and the white, Not bad at all  considering the price.. Very good fit with large Starlines for me. Easy to run from cell phone, better amped but not absolutely necessary.. Good buy..



For the painted finish, I would prefer a crystal clear one.

If I was going to leave it unpainted though, the smoke transparent does look nice.

Here’s a crystal clear VX1 (that I removed the logo from), so I suspect the crystal clear EDX looks similar:


----------



## NeonHD (Oct 18, 2020)

chinmie said:


> I'm wondering, does anyone here has both the ZAX and KBear Tri i3? if price is not a factor, how do they both compare?




Recently just got the TRI I3 and have been using them for a week. I wasn't really planning on doing any impressions so soon, nor do I have the ZAX, but for what it's worth I have to say the I3 are an exceptional pair of IEMs, bar none.

Coherency is its strongpoint. Bass, mids and treble all cooperate together like best friends, they never compete for dominance. This is a rare trait, as most 'expensive' IEMs around or above this price-point always have some sort of emphasized frequency range. For example, the Shuoer Tape ($129) has got that harsh high-mid peak. The LZ A6 ($224) is too treble-forward. The TFZ No.3 ($109) is too bass-heavy for some. And even the Harman tuning on most Moondrop IEMs can prove to be a bit too grating on the ears.

Of course, all the mentioned IEMs have their own strongpoints, but because of their bias for particular frequencies, it is really hard for me to use them as a reliable daily driver. The TRI I3 on the other hand is daily driver material. You can depend on them anytime, anywhere, for any occasion, for any genre. In other words, their consistent sound profile is very versatile.

But if anything, I'd probably call the TRI I3 mid-centric, as both the low-end and high-end are understated enough to make the mids stand out. And they possess some pretty sweet and musical mids.

Others here have talked about the soundstage. This is where the I3 really excels at. It is noticeably a very expansive stage in all three dimensions. And in terms of pure spaciousness, it even beats pricier IEMs like the LZ A6. Needless to say, this is a very spacious sounding IEM, and if soundstage is one of your main areas of concern, then the I3 is every bit worthy of your consideration.

Personally, I'd say wait until 11.11 and get the I3 for a greatly reduced price (maybe like $110-120). There is lots to love about them, and is most certainly a major upgrade from any $50 IEM.

P.S. My first official over-$100 IEM was the Tape. At first I loved it, but in the long run the high-mid peak was just too invasive and now it's sitting in my drawer. So don't make the same mistake as me and pick an IEM that will serve you in the long run. I can see that the TRI I3 being relevant for years to come.


----------



## chinmie

NeonHD said:


> Recently just got the TRI I3 and have been using them for a week. I wasn't really planning on doing any impressions so soon, nor do I have the ZAX, but for what it's worth I have to say the I3 are an exceptional pair of IEMs, bar none.
> 
> Coherency is its strongpoint. Bass, mids and treble all cooperate together like best friends, they never compete for dominance. This is a rare trait, as most 'expensive' IEMs around or above this price-point always have some sort of emphasized frequency range. For example, the Shuoer Tape ($129) has got that harsh high-mid peak. The LZ A6 ($224) is too treble-forward. The TFZ No.3 ($109) is too bass-heavy for some. And even the Harman tuning on most Moondrop IEMs can prove to be a bit too grating on the ears.
> 
> ...



thank you for the description! 

a friend of mine also suggested the i3 a lot to me. both of us also had the Shuoer Tape and he like the i3 more than the Tape. i think i might grab one out too


----------



## baskingshark

chinmie said:


> thank you for the description!
> 
> a friend of mine also suggested the i3 a lot to me. both of us also had the Shuoer Tape and he like the i3 more than the Tape. i think i might grab one out too



The TRI I3 needs an amp to shine though. The planars handling the mids are pretty power hungry. With amping then the sweet mids and excellent soundstage appears. With just a low powered smartphone, it sounds meh. And don't try to use the BT adapters on it, there's not enough power for it, so it needs to be wired, fares well with balanced outputs and amping.

It has poor isolation too, so maybe this is not a set to be brought outdoors.

I think you are quite a neutral head, and the TRI I3 is about U shaped, quite coherent despite the weird 1 BA + 1 DD + 1 planar config. There's a small 3 kHz peak that can get jarring sometimes at louder volumes or in poorly recorded material, but otherwise it is very smooth and analoguish. Imaging is superb on this set, and it has one of the best soundstages for $100ish USD when amped.

Treble is also not the most extended or airy on the TRI I3, so best to give it a miss if you are a treblehead looking for many microdetails.

There's a 2 pin variant of the TRI I3 that just released, I would suggest u to get it instead of the older MMCX version (they are same price). My TRI I3 was one of the older batch and the MMCX is a bit weak. Maybe u can read more in the dedicated TRI thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tri-earphone-impressions-i4-and-i3-starlight-new-starsea.921113/


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> I think you are quite a neutral head, and the TRI I3 is about U shaped, quite coherent despite the weird 1 BA + 1 DD + 1 planar config.



that i do, but I'm pretty much covered on that signature as of now, and i also like a somewhat wide range of sound signature. 

I'm also planning to use it indoors mostly, so lack of noise isolation is not a problem

i also eyeing on the 2 pin version, but I'm a bit worried that the weight of the i3 might make it prone to detaching. my old Kanas does that, and it has a recessed 2 pin slot, which should be more snug than the flush version of the i3


----------



## astermk

ASX and ASF in the flesh, looking pretty great visually. Shame that the FR graphs from Crinacle are scary.


----------



## alamnp

astermk said:


> ASX and ASF in the flesh, looking pretty great visually. Shame that the FR graphs from Crinacle are scary.




I will have to pass, next and last on my list Simgot EK3


----------



## alamnp

astermk said:


> ASX and ASF in the flesh, looking pretty great visually. Shame that the FR graphs from Crinacle are scary.




I will have to pass, next and last on my list Simgot EK3


----------



## Nimweth

chinmie said:


> I'm wondering, does anyone here has both the ZAX and KBear Tri i3? if price is not a factor, how do they both compare?


I have both. You can read my review of the i3 here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tri-i3.24171/reviews
I have been testing the ZAX and I will be posting my review very soon.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

IEMusic said:


> The ASX is a lot more V-shaped than I had hoped for, and seems to really lack treble.  Hopefully it sounds a lot better than the graph suggests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Regarding to ASX and ASF graphs:
- Nice Bass on both. Looks deep and very elevated, more on ASF. Some chance of bleeding into mids.
- Big boost in Mids/upper Mids can be a problem or doesn't have to be, depending on their quality and counterbalancing by a bass.
- Treble - No peak at 4 - 4,5 kHz, instead we see elevation at 5 kHz. I think this is a right spot for good clarity retrieval, but its a bit big. Then treble descends with some small peaks avoiding smoothness. Extension is great.

My possible favourite is ASF with its bigger bass. Maybe it can be good for genres like rock/metal.


----------



## astermk

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Regarding to ASX and ASF graphs:
> - Nice Bass on both. Looks deep and very elevated, more on ASF. Some chance of bleeding into mids.
> - Big boost in Mids/upper Mids can be a problem or doesn't have to be, depending on their quality and counterbalancing by a bass.
> - Treble - No peak at 4 - 4,5 kHz, instead we see elevation at 5 kHz. I think this is a right spot for good clarity retrieval, but its a bit big. Then treble descends with some small peaks avoiding smoothness. Extension is great.
> ...


Extension is great? Sure about that?



The difference between the two is as much as 15dB at around 10khz and 15khz and 5-10dB in general. The ASX has no extension advantage until 17khz, the usefulness of which is questionable because many people can't even hear in that range. KZ's previous all-BA flagship, the AS16, also has a lot more treble. The ASX seem shouty and dark from graphs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

astermk said:


> Extension is great? Sure about that?
> 
> The difference between the two is as much as 15dB at around 10khz and 15khz and 5-10dB in general. The ASX has no extension advantage until 17khz, the usefulness of which is questionable because many people can't even hear in that range. KZ's previous all-BA flagship, the AS16, also has a lot more treble. The ASX seem shouty and dark from graphs.


Graphs arent accurate beyond 10k. So take any measurements above that with a huge grain of salt.


----------



## astermk

RikudouGoku said:


> Graphs arent accurate beyond 10k. So take any measurements above that with a huge grain of salt.


Sure, but the ASX's treble starts dying as soon as 6-7K there. Up to 10K there are still 10-15dB between the two.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

astermk said:


> Extension is great? Sure about that?
> 
> The difference between the two is as much as 15dB at around 10khz and 15khz and 5-10dB in general. The ASX has no extension advantage until 17khz, the usefulness of which is questionable because many people can't even hear in that range. KZ's previous all-BA flagship, the AS16, also has a lot more treble. The ASX seem shouty and dark from graphs.



Yes, quite sure. According to these graphs, ASX has better treble extension than ZAX.


----------



## Nimweth

My review of the ZAX is now available:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zax.24696/reviews


----------



## seanwee

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Yes, quite sure. According to these graphs, ASX has better treble extension than ZAX.


And in the same fashion the ZSX is more extended than the ZAX.


----------



## Viber

astermk said:


> ASX and ASF in the flesh, looking pretty great visually. Shame that the FR graphs from Crinacle are scary.




Whats up with those short nozzles? 
Disappointing.


----------



## astermk

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Yes, quite sure. According to these graphs, ASX has better treble extension than ZAX.


Where? An interval of 1kHz (after which the ZAX actually gains the edge again if you look closer) in the part of the graph where the measurement isn't accurate?
ASX barely has upper treble to speak of, let alone extension. 

You might be mixing up the curves. The ZAX has more treble by a huuuuuuge margin.


----------



## snowmind

EDX has proven itself very well. There are days when you just want a good companion to use on the treadmill while running, on the train, or any other heavy activity that can wear out the object. You don't want to spoil the most expensive items in your collection ... so EDX is a glory, nothing about it is wrong or boring, incredible what you can get today with 6 bucks.


----------



## Slater

snowmind said:


> EDX has proven itself very well. There are days when you just want a good companion to use on the treadmill while running, on the train, or any other heavy activity that can wear out the object. You don't want to spoil the most expensive items in your collection ... so EDX is a glory, nothing about it is wrong or boring, incredible what you can get today with 6 bucks.



Agreed. It sounds great for such a cheap price.

Plus it has the older Paragraph B 2-pin socket, so no worries about the socket cracking like with the Paragraph C.

My only gripe with the EDX is that the eartips sometimes come off, despite having a lip on the nozzle. If it had a metal nozzle like the ZSN, ZS10 Pro, etc it would be perfect.

But that’s such a minor complaint.


----------



## snowmind

Slater said:


> My only gripe with the EDX is that the eartips sometimes come off, despite having a lip on the nozzle. If it had a metal nozzle like the ZSN, ZS10 Pro, etc it would be perfect.



Oh, this is real. However, using the original KZ starlines that came with it, I had no problem. But I understand that this can occur in certain combinations of ears + tips.


----------



## Tonymac136

I'm noticing quite a lot of dissenting opinions with the ZAX in particular and to a lesser extent the EDX. Different ears and anti-KZ bias? Or large unit variance creeping in?


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> I'm noticing quite a lot of dissenting opinions with the ZAX in particular and to a lesser extent the EDX. Different ears and anti-KZ bias? Or large unit variance creeping in?



Best way to find out is to try one yourself. You won’t be disappointed.


----------



## alamnp

Nimweth said:


> I have both. You can read my review of the i3 here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tri-i3.24171/reviews
> I have been testing the ZAX and I will be posting my review very soon.



20 or 50 ohm? needs amps huh?


----------



## lgcubana

Tonymac136 said:


> I'm noticing quite a lot of dissenting opinions with the ZAX in particular and to a lesser extent the EDX. Different ears and anti-KZ bias? Or large unit variance creeping in?


I've seen a few comments about the ZAX being "airy", myself included.  But a touch of EQ and everything is good again.

There was  one poster that made it his/her mission to trounce the ZAX, over another model, from a subsidiary.  But after a few days, I just used the Ignore option and once again, everything was right in the world.


----------



## voicemaster

How does BGGAR got his ASX and ASF already? Did KZ send him for review?


----------



## lgcubana

voicemaster said:


> How does BGGAR got his ASX and ASF already? Did KZ send him for review?


He resides in Japan and Linsoul (and possibly other curators) send him advance sets.


----------



## purplesun

Here's hoping someone with good knowledge of AS10 auditions both the ASX and ASF before 11.11. Their early graphs look far too similar for me to decide which to go for, right now. But they do look like graphs which AS10 should sound like. Fingers-crossed & TIA!

Probably have to now wait for CCA C20 for a super-duper treble detail response as both ASX/ASF seems targeting AS10 fans.


----------



## unifutomaki

lgcubana said:


> I've seen a few comments about the ZAX being "airy", myself included.  But a touch of EQ and everything is good again.
> 
> There was  one poster that made it his/her mission to trounce the ZAX, over another model, from a subsidiary.  But after a few days, I just used the Ignore option and once again, everything was right in the world.



Last night after reading @Nimweth's review, I lined up my ZAX, ZSN Pro and TFZ T2 and queued up Dire Straits' Private Investigations on my Walkman. In comparison to the ZAX, the ZSN Pro sounded thin and harsh, while the TFZ T2 had a loose bass and was somewhat veiled in the highs. 

All I'm saying is, this ZAX is the real deal.


----------



## Viber

Did anyone who bought the 10$ ZS10 pros from ebay have their tracking numbers working?  Mine are not in Singapore post system.

I want to leave a negative feedback and ask for a refund already, but i don't want to be an A-hole for that 1% chance this is a misunderstanding on my part.


----------



## trumpethead

Viber said:


> Did anyone who bought the 10$ ZS10 pros from ebay have their tracking numbers working?  Mine are not in Singapore post system.
> 
> I want to leave a negative feedback and ask for a refund already, but i don't want to be an A-hole for that 1% chance this is a misunderstanding on my part.



Im trying to stay positive that this is not a complete scam.. The eBay site is saying that both of my two (separate orders) have been shipped. I don't have experience with Singapore Post so I'm just gonna wait until I'm sure either way.. Ebay is really good at refunding in cases of fraud especially if you payed by PayPal. Hopefully it's not a scam but either way it will work out and for me it was worth the risk.. Patience might be a virtue in this case.... Good luck!


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> Here's hoping someone with good knowledge of AS10 auditions both the ASX and ASF before 11.11. Their early graphs look far too similar for me to decide which to go for, right now. But they do look like graphs which AS10 should sound like. Fingers-crossed & TIA!
> 
> Probably have to now wait for CCA C20 for a super-duper treble detail response as both ASX/ASF seems targeting AS10 fans.


I will have both ASX and ASF coming. I also have AS10.


----------



## Nanokillzx (Oct 20, 2020)

***I posted the same thing in The Discovery Thread!
**I just realized that somebody already pulled up Crin's graphs


TLDR: How in the **** does a pure BA IEM have this graph for the bass? I already ordered it thinking it'd have less bass than most KZ offerings turns out it probably will be quite the opposite.

Sooo... I was stalking this thread for info on the *KZ ASF*. I blind-ordered it because my ZS10 Pro's pin ports were cracked (my cat was torturing it while I slept), and the shell looks ****ing amazing for the price too.
I found KZ advertising it as being 'midrange focused' and I was stoked with the graph so I went with it. Next day though, Crinacle uploaded his graph on a sample ASF (as well as an ASX on his website) which I was so confused about.

This is the ad they had on their Aliexpress store:



This is Crinacle's measurement along with a graph of the BGVP DM6 for comparison






I really did not expect the sheer amount of bass this thing is showing knowing it's a pure BA IEM (despite their advertising that they had a new design with their 22955 BA responsible for the bass, they basically added a hole in its ass) so I just had to ask a customer service rep from CCA for verification (from an online shopping website that is basically AliExpress but for our country)



Now I know their English might be shoddy and it might be just the customer service rep trying to sell the IEM to the general public but I don't want to dig in further


----------



## Nimweth

Nanokillzx said:


> ***I posted the same thing in The Discovery Thread!
> **I just realized that somebody already pulled up Crin's graphs
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, most asses work better with a hole in them lol


----------



## baskingshark

Nanokillzx said:


> ***I posted the same thing in The Discovery Thread!
> 
> TLDR: How in the **** does a pure BA IEM have this graph for the bass? I already ordered it thinking it'd have less bass than most KZ offerings turns out it might be quite the opposite.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing. 

I think this set has a vented BA bass based on the store page:




Usually I find pure BA bass sets a bit anemic in the subbass extension and decay, and it lacks a bit of movement of air compared to DD bass. BA bass tends to be faster and more accurate (in general). So standard graphs won't tell this in general, and sometimes a BA and DD bass can look similar on a graph, but the ear perceives the DD bass to be of more quantity.

I've tried one vented bass BA, the Audiosense T800, the vents do let in some air and they sound closer to a DD bass in terms of decay and extension, so hopefully this ASF bass will sound more natural than a standard BA bass.


----------



## Nimweth

alamnp said:


> 20 or 50 ohm? needs amps huh?


The impedance is 15 ohms and sensitivity 105dB. The planar driver benefits from amplification.


----------



## BubisUK

Looking at graphs of ASX and ASF it seems they are identical, so the extra BAs in ASX are in there for what reason? Just to brag about 20 BA iem? I have ASX coming in, but looking at graphs it seems I have paid extra for nothing


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 20, 2020)

BubisUK said:


> Looking at graphs of ASX and ASF it seems they are identical, so the extra BAs in ASX are in there for what reason? Just to brag about 20 BA iem? I have ASX coming in, but looking at graphs it seems I have paid extra for nothing


Smoothness.

8-10 (or even more in largest orchestra) violins are often playing the same notes in symphonic music, and people are "paying for it", since it can sound beautiful, and different from how a single violin can sound.

The odd harsh peaks get canceled out, but the price is less extension (high frequencies are canceled more) and potentially less resolution, so BA sound gets closer to DDs.

The most important, certainly, how it will sound to your ears and tastes


----------



## BubisUK

PhonoPhi said:


> Smoothness.
> 
> 8-10 (or even more in largest orchestra) violins are often playing the same notes in symphonic music, and people are "paying for it", since it can sound beautiful, and different from how a single violin can sound.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your answer. Well I will know soon, but my expectations are low at the moment, simply was expecting something different from the tunning of these 😃


----------



## purplesun

BubisUK said:


> Looking at graphs of ASX and ASF it seems they are identical, so the extra BAs in ASX are in there for what reason? Just to brag about 20 BA iem? I have ASX coming in, but looking at graphs it seems I have paid extra for nothing


Probably better micro details & transient perfomance with more BAs in the ASX. If tuned well, I think big orchestral works will benefit from that many drivers. It's a big "if" though.


----------



## BubisUK

Well I only paid 70$ after cashback for mine and got an extra replacement cable as well, so will be able to recoup my losses if this will turnout not being something I like


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> ...It's a big "if" though.


Absolutely!

KZ is KZ!
It can boldly go when no one went before in terms of capabilities/price, but it goes there in its own way, by multiple (often very incremental) releases, hardly asking anyone's opinion about it.
This naturally suits well with strong "love and hate"  sentiments that are abundantly displayed here


----------



## slex

KZ's electrostatic coming soon?☺️


----------



## Viber

trumpethead said:


> Im trying to stay positive that this is not a complete scam.. The eBay site is saying that both of my two (separate orders) have been shipped. I don't have experience with Singapore Post so I'm just gonna wait until I'm sure either way.. Ebay is really good at refunding in cases of fraud especially if you payed by PayPal. Hopefully it's not a scam but either way it will work out and for me it was worth the risk.. Patience might be a virtue in this case.... Good luck!



I asked him why my tracking number doesnt work and why did he pull out all of his items for sale...
I don't remember getting a tracking number which resulted no details whatsoever, even a few years back.  It has to at least show acceptance by the post office.


----------



## purplesun (Oct 20, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> It can boldly go when no one went before in terms of capabilities/price, but it goes there in its own way, by multiple (often very incremental) releases, hardly asking anyone's opinion about it.


With the ton of space left unused in the ZAX, I wouldn't be surprised if they produce a 20ba/2DD iem!


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> And also, instant buyer's remorse is
> 
> With the ton of space left unused in the ZAX, I wouldn't be surprised if they produce a 20ba/2DD iem!


Or they can start experimenting with EST and planars


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> Or they can start experimenting with EST and planars


And has to be shoddily-made drivers. Give the KZ tuning team some high-performance planars or knowles ba, it would insult their pride! Ta Ma De!


----------



## slex

https://m.gamer.com.tw/forum/C.php?bsn=60535&snA=16800

Hold your horses in ASX.


----------



## theguy69

Thoughts on the kz edx vs the zst x and zsn pro x (and for an apples to apples comparison - the blon 03)?


----------



## BubisUK

slex said:


> https://m.gamer.com.tw/forum/C.php?bsn=60535&snA=16800
> 
> Hold your horses in ASX.


So according to Google translate the ASX is a horse A**, that no one shoul buy, great 😃🙈


----------



## slex

BubisUK said:


> So according to Google translate the ASX is a horse A**, that no one shoul buy, great 😃🙈


"Overturned" seems to describe it.😆


----------



## slex

slex said:


> "Overturned" seems to describe it.😆


I meant overtuned.


----------



## kokadon

KZ EDX 1DD vs TRN ST1 1BB+1DD?? for EDM and normal use(youtube, gaming),,,,, for Laptop use only
I prefer Comfortable and long lasting
you can also suggest me different IEM around this price


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Thanks for your impressions. Do u happen to have a legit Sony MH755 to compare the EDX with?



Apologies for the delayed response. Sadly no. I couldn't get a genuine MH755 and missed that hype train. Lost one parcel in transit from Japan and other one I got from AliExpress was a fake which went kaput in 8 days.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

kokadon said:


> KZ EDX 1DD vs TRN ST1 1BB+1DD?? for EDM and normal use(youtube, gaming),,,,, for Laptop use only
> I prefer Comfortable and long lasting
> you can also suggest me different IEM around this price



I have both and I'd say EDX is much better for EDM, more comfortable for lengthy sessions (you don't even feel them after a point), has more durable 2pin socket as opposed to ST1. ST1 is not bad but it's more like a wannabe ZSN whereas EDX is very natural sounding iem in the sub-$10 price range. I'd recommend go for EDX. Also, default KZ tips are better than default ones provided with ST1. Both ship same quality cables although EDX in white and translucent colour comes with a pink-ish cable which is very similar to ZSN Purple cable. Since you are going to use them via laptops you can do away without an amp as a laptop will easily drive them to their max potential without any external amp/DAC.

Hope this helps you.


----------



## kokadon

Dani157 said:


> I have both and I'd say EDX is much better for EDM, more comfortable for lengthy sessions (you don't even feel them after a point), has more durable 2pin socket as opposed to ST1. ST1 is not bad but it's more like a wannabe ZSN whereas EDX is very natural sounding iem in the sub-$10 price range. I'd recommend go for EDX. Also, default KZ tips are better than default ones provided with ST1. Both ship same quality cables although EDX in white and translucent colour comes with a pink-ish cable which is very similar to ZSN Purple cable. Since you are going to use them via laptops you can do away without an amp as a laptop will easily drive them to their max potential without any external amp/DAC.
> 
> Hope this helps you.


Thanks friend, God bless you


----------



## Viber

slex said:


> https://m.gamer.com.tw/forum/C.php?bsn=60535&snA=16800
> 
> Hold your horses in ASX.



So the ASX is trash, on to the next one!


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> So the ASX is trash, on to the next one!



So we’re going by 1 random guy from Taiwan? What about the other 7.6 billion people?


----------



## BubisUK

Slater said:


> So we’re going by 1 random guy from Taiwan? What about the other 7.6 billion people?


No, we go with the 1 random guy, that is the only valid option 😃


----------



## PhonoPhi

BubisUK said:


> No, we go with the 1 random guy, that is the only valid option 😃


I will not rush with the validation until I get and test mine


----------



## voicemaster

What kind of overtuned did he mean? The bass? Mid? Treble? 
Is that a gaming forum? If it is, they think turtle beach or logitech headphone sounds good? They need em bass loud and clear for those guys. No bass = trash. Flat/neutral = trash. Bloated bass = GODly.


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> What kind of overtuned did he mean? The bass? Mid? Treble?
> Is that a gaming forum? If it is, they think turtle beach or logitech headphone sounds good? They need em bass loud and clear for those guys. No bass = trash. Flat/neutral = trash. Bloated bass = GODly.



He didn't say overTUNED. Whoever posted that made a mistake. According to Google Translate, he said overTURNED.

Here's exactly what he said. All 4 sentences of his detailed review, from some random gamer none of us knows. We don't even know if he had a defective pair, what his source was, if it was even a good match, what other gear he has to compare/reference it to, or what music he was even listening to.

_*"The instrument becomes noisy when it is too many, and it will get muddy when it is loud. Experience: Compared with AS16, this one has a zero score. Compared with other KZ, it is really shameful. Finally, it was overturned."*_


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> So the ASX is trash, on to the next one!



still waiting for my V90s... I guess I made a good choice...


----------



## alamnp (Oct 20, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I will not rush with the validation until I get and test mine



please do share your impressions... I'm done, lol spent $1000 for IEMs these past couple of months

4 CA16
6 KZ ED9
4 ZS 10 PRO
1 ZAX
3 TFZ TEQUILAS
SPINFITS 6 DIFFERENT TYPES
6 DIFFERENT COPPER/SILVER, PURE SILVER CABLES
1 TRN V90S (STILL WAITING)
1 TRN BT20S (STILL WAITING)

I gifted those to some of my colleagues... they are SUPER HAPPY, for audiophile virgin - ED9 is enough to blow their mind, for Beats lover - ZS10 Pro crushed them, for Airpod/Sony/JBL/AKG lovers CA16 and TFZs trumped them all (well, they need the BT20S, but they are willing to use the cable, after they found out how good is the sound).

IEM gifts are the best, made my life easier and projects done faster when people are happy working from home with quality musics on their ears.


----------



## Luis1316

It seems that you guys need a translator...
He said that the first guy that tried it said that he needed to burn it a bit to give the final impressions and the second guy said that the sound was a "mess".
He seems to concord with the second guy after trying it by himself, saying that it was really "that bad". 
Finally, he says that we should wait for CCA C20 because this one is just a huge letdown.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> So we’re going by 1 random guy from Taiwan? What about the other 7.6 billion people?



I asked my wallet and he agreed with the random guy.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I asked my wallet and he agreed with the random guy.



So true!


----------



## enri (Oct 20, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> What kind of overtuned did he mean? The bass? Mid? Treble?
> Is that a gaming forum? If it is, they think turtle beach or logitech headphone sounds good? They need em bass loud and clear for those guys. No bass = trash. Flat/neutral = trash. Bloated bass = GODly.



In fact the guy in Taiwan said "guys in Hong Kong said the sound signature is busy/messy" and he agrees.

But guys in Hong Kong also said the sound signature is actually like a monitor, but prefer burn-in first to see how it goes. Some also added it  evolves from AS16 and more analytical.

Edit:
Bass have different texture to AS16
Mid/High not so over to AS16

P.S. I don't own AS16 nor ASX


----------



## voicemaster

enri said:


> In fact the guy in Taiwan said "guys in Hong Kong said the sound signature is busy/messy" and he agrees.
> 
> But guys in Hong Kong also said the sound signature is actually like a monitor, but prefer burn-in first to see how it goes. Some also added it  evolves from AS16 and more analytical.
> 
> ...


Interesting.  Mine has arrived in the USA so hopefully they deliver it this week.


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> I asked my wallet and he agreed with the random guy.



after the dollars that I burned... I agreed with you and that random guy


----------



## RikudouGoku

Looks really nice. Completely transparent and clear.


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Oct 20, 2020)

alamnp said:


> please do share your impressions... I'm done, lol spent $1000 for IEMs these past couple of months
> 
> 4 CA16
> 6 KZ ED9
> ...



ah-ha... you kept the ZAX for yourself i see...


----------



## trumpethead

Viber said:


> I asked him why my tracking number doesnt work and why did he pull out all of his items for sale...
> I don't remember getting a tracking number which resulted no details whatsoever, even a few years back.  It has to at least show acceptance by the post office.



Well, the fact that he responded at all could be promising...


----------



## Slater

RikudouGoku said:


> Looks really nice. Completely transparent and clear.




Thats the smoke transparent. It’s not perfectly crystal clear.

You can see it in this photo. It’s like a slightly grey tinted window.


----------



## paulwasabii (Oct 20, 2020)

Yes, not quite crystal clear, but not smoke transparent either. KBEAR F1, EDX, and KZ ZSN and a bit off white lighting. And apologies for the dirty star tip.








Slater said:


> Thats the smoke transparent. It’s not perfectly crystal clear.
> 
> You can see it in this photo. It’s like a slightly grey tinted window.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Thats the smoke transparent. It’s not perfectly crystal clear.
> 
> You can see it in this photo. It’s like a slightly grey tinted window.


Yeah, but still pretty see through to me. Easy to see the driver with that shell. Both my ZS10 PRO'S have/had a nice bottom shell. Even with my poor eyesight, it's still pretty easy to see all the drivers if you look close enough. It's one of the things I like alot about many KZ models. They let you see what the internal components they are using, instead of covering everything up with solid shells. Pictures in ads are great, but nothing beats being able to see everyday what you bought.


----------



## Slater

paulwasabii said:


> Yes, not quite crystal clear, but not smoke transparent either. KBEAR F1, EDX, and KZ ZSN and a bit off white lighting. And apologies for the dirty star tip.



Awesome picture, and a great comparison. Thanks for showing the differences side by side 



courierdriver said:


> Yeah, but still pretty see through to me. Easy to see the driver with that shell. Both my ZS10 PRO'S have/had a nice bottom shell. Even with my poor eyesight, it's still pretty easy to see all the drivers if you look close enough. It's one of the things I like alot about many KZ models. They let you see what the internal components they are using, instead of covering everything up with solid shells. Pictures in ads are great, but nothing beats being able to see everyday what you bought.



Totally agree. Whenever faced with the choice of multiple colors, I always opt for transparent so I can admire the internals of gear


----------



## slex

Slater said:


> He didn't say overTUNED. Whoever posted that made a mistake. According to Google Translate, he said overTURNED.
> 
> Here's exactly what he said. All 4 sentences of his detailed review, from some random gamer none of us knows. We don't even know if he had a defective pair, what his source was, if it was even a good match, what other gear he has to compare/reference it to, or what music he was even listening to.
> 
> _*"The instrument becomes noisy when it is too many, and it will get muddy when it is loud. Experience: Compared with AS16, this one has a zero score. Compared with other KZ, it is really shameful. Finally, it was overturned."*_


ok I get that, I coined it overtuned because I dun get wat he meant by "overturned" 😄 And perhaps google translate have corked that up.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

It looks like the AS12 will remain the only more expensive KZ that can be listened to at high volume...


----------



## Viber

Oh 




So i think we can already see shades of a trend in opinions: 
The new gen of KZs are not a major upgrade, but a sidegrade.

But of course, we need more opinions to solidify that statement.


----------



## baskingshark

Viber said:


> Oh
> 
> 
> So i think we can already see shades of a trend in opinions:
> ...



The common view point is that since 2018 KZ has mostly been releasing sidegrades/marginal upgrades. I remember it got quite bad in early 2019 where they were releasing stuff almost on a bimonthly basis. Don't get me wrong, KZ does have some nice gems that are kinda groundbreaking every now and then, but the majority of releeases still seem to be marginal upgrades.

I like that KZ are trying to breach the $100 market with the ASX, but there's lots of tough competition there against big boys like the Fiio FH3, TRI I3 etc.


----------



## PhonoPhi

xxAMAROKxx said:


> It looks like the AS12 will remain the only more expensive KZ that can be listened to at high volume...


CA16 are similarly treble-dampened.

Actually, if the treble filters are removed in AS12, it becomes really treble mighty (a treble beast).
A10/KB10 sound gentle in comparison.

Those treble drivers in AS12 are really powerful and quite rough, KZ used them only in AS12, stuck heavy treble filters, and returned to gentler 30095.

My optimistic thinking is that customizing treble dampening in AS12 to one's preference can deliver a nice IEM under $55 - those two bass BAs give really the best BA bass I've heard, and mids are quite nice. 

On a sad note, there are problems with my ASX shipping, that was the first time I ordered from "KZ official store"


----------



## Viber

baskingshark said:


> The common view point is that since 2018 KZ has mostly been releasing sidegrades/marginal upgrades. I remember it got quite bad in early 2019 where they were releasing stuff almost on a bimonthly basis. Don't get me wrong, KZ does have some nice gems that are kinda groundbreaking every now and then, but the majority of releeases still seem to be marginal upgrades.
> 
> I like that KZ are trying to breach the $100 market with the ASX, but there's lots of tough competition there against big boys like the Fiio FH3, TRI I3 etc.



Marketing works i guess.  
I thought we might have some sort of evolution because of the new and improved (?) BA drivers and new tuning.


----------



## astermk

baskingshark said:


> The common view point is that since 2018 KZ has mostly been releasing sidegrades/marginal upgrades. I remember it got quite bad in early 2019 where they were releasing stuff almost on a bimonthly basis. Don't get me wrong, KZ does have some nice gems that are kinda groundbreaking every now and then, but the majority of releeases still seem to be marginal upgrades.
> 
> I like that KZ are trying to breach the $100 market with the ASX, but there's lots of tough competition there against big boys like the Fiio FH3, TRI I3 etc.


It's interesting how people are easily willing to forgive other brands doing sidegrades (Campfire Audio and their billion versions of the Andromeda, more or less Sennheiser's entire output of the last 20 years etc.) or minor upgrades (Tin HiFi with the T3 and T4) but when KZ does it, it's an issue.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 21, 2020)

astermk said:


> It's interesting how people are easily willing to forgive other brands doing sidegrades (Campfire Audio and their billion versions of the Andromeda, more or less Sennheiser's entire output of the last 20 years etc.) or minor upgrades (Tin HiFi with the T3 and T4) but when KZ does it, it's an issue.



That's very true. But KZ in early 2019 (and maybe mid 2020 till now) have been releasing stuff on an almost weekly or bimonthly basis. I don't think even Tin or Campfire are that productive! Prior to that, between end 2019 to early 2020, KZ was also spamming wireless gear very frequently.

Perhaps there's also an element of biasness as you say. I've met a lot of KZ haters in other forums that have this impression that KZs are badly tuned (if at all), and that KZ is more interested in driver count. Perhaps they may still be comparing current day KZs to their earlier tunings where everything was harsh and overly boosted in the upper frequencies. This may be unfair though, it does seem KZ/CCA has been trying different stuff lately, as we see some who are happy with newer releases with less harsh treble, and even some KZ gear being less V shaped. Also KZ went back to their DD roots by releasing the EDX recently, and now trying to enter the $100 market (I shall just believe the KZ AS16 never existed haha).


----------



## voicemaster

Problem is when you do "side upgrade" with campfire for example, you can get the almost the whole line up of kz iems lol. I think kz is trying to get into "monitor" sound signature with their latest releases and it is not an easy task.


----------



## Wgibson

Sidegrades are better than poorly documented revisions while keeping the same model number, so that is an improvement 

I did have high hopes for the upgraded BA's. Overall tuning aside, maybe more detailed reviews can shed some light on any improvements there.

I do think targeting the same response curve for everything is a little tedious with new products coming out that often. Make some bass cannons, try for a more prevalent midrange, especially with the "hit or miss" nature of these things, mix it up a bit...


----------



## theguy69

Can anyone the compare the kz edx with the kz zsn pro x?


----------



## Viber

Wgibson said:


> Make some bass cannons, especially with the "hit or miss" nature of these things, mix it up a bit...



Exactly, i want one with a monster 15mm driver.
Get on it Kz!


----------



## Viber

It's kinda sad no one cares about the new SA08 TWS.  
I wonder if they know it's because no one trusts them with the battery.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> It's kinda sad no one cares about the new SA08 TWS.
> I wonder if they know it's because no one trusts them with the battery.


KZ tws are famous for their lame battery life and some bluetooth connection issue. I have the KZ AptX-HD bluetooth cable and the connection would drop even when my phone literally besides it.


----------



## Viber (Oct 21, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> I have the KZ AptX-HD bluetooth cable and the connection would drop even when my phone literally besides it.



Really?  The cable gives me great connection overall.

Not using aptx tho


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Really?  The cable gives me great connection overall.
> 
> Not using aptx tho


Yea really. I have the AptX and AptX-HD. The regular is worse, but the HD version is not that much better either. If I cover the module with my hand, the connection will drop intermittently. For bluetooth, TRN does a better job so far than KZ.


----------



## Sebulr (Oct 21, 2020)

Viber said:


> Really?  The cable gives me great connection overall.
> 
> Not using aptx tho


Me too, and I have the £12 ones. I broke one of them though, had a year of use, so no complaints. My kz s2 tws however have a faulty left earpiece, and 3 hour battery life.


----------



## purplesun

Viber said:


> Exactly, i want one with a monster 15mm driver.


Or just put the same drivers from BL-03 in their long-nozzle ATE shell, and sell them for $10 -  KZ ATE Pro X!
They should be able sell a few.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Yea really. I have the AptX and AptX-HD. The regular is worse, but the HD version is not that much better either. If I cover the module with my hand, the connection will drop intermittently. For bluetooth, TRN does a better job so far than KZ.



On the phone? Try turning off wifi and clearing RAM memory


----------



## voicemaster

Eh too much effort for that. I am not using them anymore anyway. Trn bt20s pro all the way!!


----------



## seanwee

baskingshark said:


> The common view point is that since 2018 KZ has mostly been releasing sidegrades/marginal upgrades. I remember it got quite bad in early 2019 where they were releasing stuff almost on a bimonthly basis. Don't get me wrong, KZ does have some nice gems that are kinda groundbreaking every now and then, but the majority of releeases still seem to be marginal upgrades.
> 
> I like that KZ are trying to breach the $100 market with the ASX, but there's lots of tough competition there against big boys like the Fiio FH3, TRI I3 etc.


I'd love to see KZ attempt a Moondrop type tuning.


----------



## seanwee

Viber said:


> Exactly, i want one with a monster 15mm driver.
> Get on it Kz!


From my experience tuning is the only factor that dictates how bassy an iem is. Driver size,design and material help with the bass control but can still be ruined by a bad tuning.


----------



## Viber

seanwee said:


> From my experience tuning is the only factor that dictates how bassy an iem is. Driver size,design and material help with the bass control but can still be ruined by a bad tuning.



Sheesh.... so stick another 2 BAs in the nozzle.

Problem solved, China style.


----------



## seanwee

Viber said:


> Sheesh.... so stick another 2 BAs in the nozzle.
> 
> Problem solved, China style.


Best BA bass i've heard are from the Sony IER-M9. Pretty much indistinguishable from dynamic bass. 

That said it is far more expensive than KZ iems so best if KZ sticks to hybrid designs for better bass.


----------



## saldsald (Oct 22, 2020)

Slater said:


> He didn't say overTUNED. Whoever posted that made a mistake. According to Google Translate, he said overTURNED.
> 
> Here's exactly what he said. All 4 sentences of his detailed review, from some random gamer none of us knows. We don't even know if he had a defective pair, what his source was, if it was even a good match, what other gear he has to compare/reference it to, or what music he was even listening to.
> 
> _*"The instrument becomes noisy when it is too many, and it will get muddy when it is loud. Experience: Compared with AS16, this one has a zero score. Compared with other KZ, it is really shameful. Finally, it was overturned."*_



Kind of funny I am actually the guy he refers to 'from another forum'

Anyway I don't like the ASX they are noisy at least for now without much running-in.


----------



## saldsald (Oct 22, 2020)

enri said:


> In fact the guy in Taiwan said "guys in Hong Kong said the sound signature is busy/messy" and he agrees.
> 
> But guys in Hong Kong also said the sound signature is actually like a monitor, but prefer burn-in first to see how it goes. Some also added it  evolves from AS16 and more analytical.
> 
> ...



Hi, 'guys from Hong Kong' here. I was looking for others review and found my own impression here. Lol.


----------



## astermk

From what I gather, any bass quantity is possible with any driver technology, but the actual character of the bass will vary from driver to driver. BA drivers move quicker than DDs do so their bass is quicker, with less decay. DD bass is slower and can thus sound more impactful and natural, but that doesn't necessarily make it better. The same goes for different drivers within the same category. I wonder how vented BAs do for bass as I've never heard em.


----------



## baskingshark

astermk said:


> From what I gather, any bass quantity is possible with any driver technology, but the actual character of the bass will vary from driver to driver. BA drivers move quicker than DDs do so their bass is quicker, with less decay. DD bass is slower and can thus sound more impactful and natural, but that doesn't necessarily make it better. The same goes for different drivers within the same category. I wonder how vented BAs do for bass as I've never heard em.



In a properly implemented bass vented BA, they do sound close to their DD counterparts in bass, but not totally like the real thing.
The bass vented BA bass do have more "movement of air" and decay and perhaps subbass extension, but for those that I've tried, maybe they can get 70% to a DD bass sound only.


----------



## theguy69

Has anyone compared the edx with the pro x? I've been hearing a lot of good things about the edx


----------



## TechnoidFR

For ASX interesting to know. One of my partners don't want to sent to me kz asx/ASF. He seems cold to have a review on


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> In a properly implemented bass vented BA, they do sound close to their DD counterparts in bass, but not totally like the real thing.
> The bass vented BA bass do have more "movement of air" and decay and perhaps subbass extension, but for those that I've tried, maybe they can get 70% to a DD bass sound only.


I have been listening again to the BA10 and the bass from the 22955 is superb. Very deep, powerful and fast with a lovely timbre. Mids are also wonderful from the 29689 and 31005 combination and the two 30095s are well tuned. Notwithstanding my recent approval of the ZAX I have to say the BA10 is my favourite KZ of all, the ZAX being the best hybrid.


----------



## PhonoPhi

TechnoidFR said:


> For ASX interesting to know. One of my partners don't want to sent to me kz asx/ASF. He seems cold to have a review on


Can it be that you are deemed not KZ-worthy after your recent reviews and comments here?


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> Can it be that you are deemed not KZ-worthy after your recent reviews and comments here?



I had zax for review I find it good so no.

And I read more than I participate
But no, it's not that


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Sellers are will be sent ASF Blue and ASX White for review to me, as soon as they come, I will try to leave a full review in English (unfortunately, the translator sometimes misses the translation and it turns out to be not very informative, my native lang is Russian  )


----------



## alamnp

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Sellers are will be sent ASF Blue and ASX White for review to me, as soon as they come, I will try to leave a full review in English (unfortunately, the translator sometimes misses the translation and it turns out to be not very informative, my native lang is Russian  )



Maybe I should just invest in one Vision Ear Erlkonig IEM for $4500, apparently overseas people are willing to pay an upward $10000 for it since it's already sold out... 

good investment and I can listen to fairy king IEM.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

alamnp said:


> Maybe I should just invest in one Vision Ear Erlkonig IEM for $4500, apparently overseas people are willing to pay an upward $10000 for it since it's already sold out...
> 
> good investment and I can listen to fairy king IEM.


price is not always equal to sound quality


----------



## alamnp

Mr.HiAudio said:


> price is not always equal to sound quality



apparently it is for Vision Ears... lol... instead of throwing money into the toilet for 20 sub $100 IEM, should work more overtime and invest on the KING of Fairy of all IEM for $4500. 

Even the used one sold for $6700


----------



## tgx78

Note: My ZS10 Pro has Tanchjim HANA filter to reduce pinna gain as you can see in the graph. 






Just got the ZAX and really digging the sound. Almost perfect for low volume listening.


----------



## alamnp

tgx78 said:


> Note: My ZS10 Pro has Tanchjim HANA filter to reduce pinna gain as you can see in the graph.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, good at low volume and i can't handle ZAX on the higher volume, too sibilant.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Oct 23, 2020)

alamnp said:


> apparently it is for Vision Ears... lol... instead of throwing money into the toilet for 20 sub $100 IEM, should work more overtime and invest on the KING of Fairy of all IEM for $4500.


then you should double this price because you will need to buy a music player of about the same class 

and you can also order custom headphones from local craftsmen, for example, we have many who make custom-made headphones for $ 100 with sound for about all $ 300


----------



## alamnp

Mr.HiAudio said:


> then you should double this price because you will need to buy a music player of about the same class
> 
> and you can also order custom headphones from local craftsmen, for example, we have many who make custom-made headphones for $ 100 with sound for about all $ 300



damn, that's true, but I think, the next Limited Edition Vision Ears are out again, I am going to buy it for investment purposes. return is more than 100% within a year


----------



## astermk (Oct 23, 2020)

alamnp said:


> Yep, good at low volume and i can't handle ZAX on the higher volume, too sibilant.


I'm almost 100% sure that the sibilance you speak of with the ZAX is with recordings that are mixed/mastered in such a way as to accentuate sibilance, which is unfortunately many of them. I haven't found the ZAX to introduce sibilance anywhere where it doesn't already exist (comparing the same music on other IEMs, over ears, computer speakers, car speakers, you name it). Older KZs, for example, are *actually *sibilant, and quite significantly so. While the ZAX isn't sibilant inherently, your songs might be, and so are mine. IEMs that dampen treble excessively to kill every single instance of sibilance are not to my taste because they also kill all sense of detail and air and sound muffled, and I'd much rather point the finger at sound engineers that don't know how to de-ess vocals properly.


----------



## slex

alamnp said:


> Maybe I should just invest in one Vision Ear Erlkonig IEM for $4500, apparently overseas people are willing to pay an upward $10000 for it since it's already sold out...
> 
> good investment and I can listen to fairy king IEM.






why not this for investment?😆


----------



## TechnoidFR (Oct 23, 2020)

Zax have elevated high frequencies so yeah, it can be more aggressive on some tracks. 


Yeah I prefer compensated curve


----------



## unifutomaki (Oct 23, 2020)

Put some AE nameless foams on my ZAX this morning and cued up a DSD copy of Strangelove by Depeche Mode on my Walkman. That opening bassline gave me full body chills. 

My IEM rotation has narrowed down to either the Moondrop SSR or these. Aside from improved sound isolation, foams tighten up the sub-bass on the ZAX. Worth a try


----------



## alamnp

slex said:


> why not this for investment?😆



Vision Ears are well known International IEM company, head quartered in Germany and known as the BMW class of IEM, and their IEM are highly sought for due to being produced in limited number only.


----------



## unifutomaki

alamnp said:


> Vision Ears are well known International IEM company, head quartered in Germany and known as the BMW class of IEM, and their IEM are highly sought for due to being produced in limited number only.



And this is relevant... why?


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 23, 2020)

Time to mod and prosper..

ZAX + Tanchjim Filter = Win.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

unifutomaki said:


> Put some AE nameless foams on my ZAX this morning and cued up a DSD copy of Strangelove by Depeche Mode on my Walkman. That opening bassline gave me full body chills.
> 
> My IEM rotation has narrowed down to either the Moondrop SSR or these. Aside from improved sound isolation, foams tighten up the sub-bass on the ZAX. Worth a try



Have noticed that all my KZs really liven up with foam tips. I guess it is because foamies straightens the bass and treble bringing them much inline with mids. For my ZSN, treble steeliness just vanishes when I use them with ball shaped foam tips and bass is as you mention spine tingling.


----------



## astermk

tgx78 said:


> Time to mod and prosper..
> 
> ZAX + Tanchjim Filter = Win.


Is there a practical difference between applying actual filters and just EQing down the upper midrange? I don't find mine shouty but I might screw around with my ZS10 Pro if there's any profit.


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## tgx78 (Oct 23, 2020)

I love my PEQ but if I can, I do physical mod first and then PEQ to fine tune. I have many different sources and don’t like inputting EQ presets to all of them and juggle around.


----------



## ZAXon 7

slex said:


> why not this for investment?😆


running earphones...


----------



## voicemaster

astermk said:


> Is there a practical difference between applying actual filters and just EQing down the upper midrange? I don't find mine shouty but I might screw around with my ZS10 Pro if there's any profit.


Well physical mod works with different devices. I have a 32 band EQ for my pc which works really well, but when I use my phone, I don't have anything that come close to a 32 band EQ in android sadly. With adding extra filter or using foam tips, I can switch between devices without having to worry about different EQ.


----------



## Sebulr

astermk said:


> Is there a practical difference between applying actual filters and just EQing down the upper midrange? I don't find mine shouty but I might screw around with my ZS10 Pro if there's any profit.


I took the filters off mine, and shoved some tissue paper in there, then put the filters back on. Sound lovely now. It's ghetto, but does the job. Ain't nobody looking down my nozzles. Saves me having to start up my eq.


----------



## astermk

voicemaster said:


> Well physical mod works with different devices. I have a 32 band EQ for my pc which works really well, but when I use my phone, I don't have anything that come close to a 32 band EQ in android sadly. With adding extra filter or using foam tips, I can switch between devices without having to worry about different EQ.


BTW Wavelet (for Android) supports importing custom PEQ preset files.


----------



## astermk

I actually own a pair of silicone tips that I've found much better and more comfy (for me) than foams, and that's...whatever tips came with these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32843172569.html
Ordered them some years ago. I have absolutely no idea what they sound like, because the entire box with full accessories came without the actual IEMs, but those ear tips...Some black magic has been worked to make them the absolute best tips I've ever used, and I used them both on the ZS10 Pro and now the ZAX.


----------



## theguy69

ZAXon 7 said:


> running earphones...


Look into the edx if you're looking for a beater pair


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my ASX today. First impression is ...interesting. Build quality is okay not as good as ZAX, closer to CA16 with those noticeable seam on the clear body. Whereas ZAX, ZS10 pro, C12, etc don't have that. The silicone tip is okay, but I like KZ starline tip better and the nozzle is smaller than ZAX. This new silicone tips make the IEM sit deeper inside the ear canal thus making the isolation/fit similar to a custom mold IEM.

On to the sound, now this is the interesting part. The vocal is very middle centric, meaning if you ever heard a 5.1CH surround sound system, the vocal/dialog comes on the center channel speaker, now the ASX is kind of sound like that. Voice is very inside your head like it seriously feels coming from the middle of the brain. This can create a somewhat busy sound because the vocal is really cramped inside the head, even I have to adjust a little bit. It can be overwhelming when first listening to it. Usually, if I put ZSX and ZAX on each side, the sound will be quite similar, it might sound a little bit different like more airy on the ZAX, etc, but when I put the ASX and ZAX together, they sound totally different.

This ASX is very very detailed IEM. I said the ZAX is quite detailed, but ASX is even more detailed. Like I can hear the compression on the snare drum which usually washed out in the mix and all the little nuances too. 
Treble is good, but the ZAX is more airy where ASX is more like the ZSX. Vocal has this warmth but not thick, male voice has some weight to it. Definitely warmer than the ZAX. There is a spike in the upper mid where it can exaggerate snare beat sound.
Bass hits hard, deep and fast. I am quite impressed by the bass from this new BA, it rumbles just like a DD, but it is very punchy/clicky too. No bass bleed fortunately. In term of quantity, the ASX sounds bassier than the ZAX. 
Sound separation is very good, but they are different than ZAX. Its like vocal has its own space and the instruments just filling in the surrounding space. 
This is just my initial listening observation tho so it can changed for the better or worse. For now, this ASX is very very interesting because it is totally different than the ZAX. I am not talking about the curve (I think it is closer to W instead of V), but the sound presentation as a whole is totally different than any other KZ/CCA I've heard so far.


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## voicemaster (Oct 24, 2020)

I am using this foamies that I bought for my Nuarl N6P.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_r5nLFbWTWT5R5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Oh and the 4 holes on the face plate, three of them are see through, I don't know if it is open or not.


----------



## voicemaster

This song really show the 3D separation of the ASX. Cool song too.


----------



## gibletzor

Generally I'm not too much into IEMs, but I picked up a set of TRN BT20s Pro recently and wanted to get a decent set of IEMs for some better TWS sound quality.  My go to TWS have been the Galaxy Buds +, Tranya B530 Pro and Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro.  On the recommendation of a user on the huge TWS thread, I grabbed the ZAX to go with the BT20s Pro.  I'd had a pair of KZ ZSNs a while back and I liked them, but then got into TWS and kinda left them in the drawer.  At first I was really disappointed with the ZAX listening from my Galaxy S20 Ultra both via bluetooth and wired through a USB-C DAC.  I got the same disappointing sound with Spotify and Amazon Music HD.  Vocals just sounded muffled and the treble was really...  not there.  Bass was great, mids were fine.  Tried several different kinds of tips.  I was pretty close to sending them back.

Then I decided to hook them up to my PC and listen to some FLAC files instead of using the streaming services.  OH MY!  My disappointment wasn't with my source device or IEM.  It was 100% just my file source.  These things are the bees knees!  I've actually been using them a lot instead of my AKG K702s on my PC when I'm not really in the mood for gaming.

I know this is more than likely elementary to a lot of you, but for the other noobish folks like me, let this be a lesson to you.  Where your files come from can turn a great IEM into a "meh" one!

I also picked up the EDX to use with the BT20s Pro while I'm outside.  Pretty damn happy for such a cheap IEM!


----------



## voicemaster

Been listening with the asx for like 8 hours yesterday. I am liking the sound so far. It is detailed, but doesn't do it in an overly bright tone. Instrument placement is top notch and so does the separation. The only minor issue is the peak on 7-8 khz where it can get a bit too hot in the mix. Like the sound of ride cymbals can get quite in your face, but not the cymbal itself. Only when the drummer hit the top of the cymbal that it got too much sometime. Eq it down -1 to 2dB should remedy it tho so its not that bad. The treble doesn't have any sibilance tho. Bass is amazing for a BA driver. I watched Interstellar and this asx can rumble on those low organ note. 
For the fit, they hurt my upper ear where the extra lip is after like 6 hours of listening. I wish they just make the body style like the zax and ditch this custom iem body style wannabe.


----------



## Viber

Another ASX review:


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> I am using this foamies that I bought for my Nuarl N6P.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_r5nLFbWTWT5R5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Oh and the 4 holes on the face plate, three of them are see through, I don't know if it is open or not.



I see you have many of those BT20s pro adapters.

I only have ZSR,ZS6,ZS5 with the old connection.  Do you think the BT20 pro with the new "2pin" connection would fit those as well?


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Another ASX review:


I kind of agree. For lack of a better term, the ASX lacks "musicality". Its like you are mixing a song, you have all these tracks (drums, bass, guitar, vocal, etc) then you adjust the positioning like oh I want guitar a little bit left panning, bass in the middle, another guitar on the right panning, etc. You can hear everything basically, but it lacks the finishing touch that makes a music as a whole. Take Bl03 for example, it doesn't even come close to ASX level of detail, but when you listen to it, it just enjoyable to listen to. I think ASX will make a nice IEM for "monitoring" if you are a musician. I still enjoy it tho as I do mixing live event time to time.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> I see you have many of those BT20s pro adapters.
> 
> I only have ZSR,ZS6,ZS5 with the old connection.  Do you think the BT20 pro with the new "2pin" connection would fit those as well?


If you use the regular 2pin connector, they will fit nicely to older KZ.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> If you use the regular 2pin connector, they will fit nicely to older KZ.



Just to make sure, we are talking about this one:




You tried them on older KZs and they work 100% on them and the new ones like ZS10 pro,ZAX etc ?  The pins look too short for me to work on the old ones.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> I kind of agree. For lack of a better term, the ASX lacks "musicality". Its like you are mixing a song, you have all these tracks (drums, bass, guitar, vocal, etc) then you adjust the positioning like oh I want guitar a little bit left panning, bass in the middle, another guitar on the right panning, etc. You can hear everything basically, but it lacks the finishing touch that makes a music as a whole. Take Bl03 for example, it doesn't even come close to ASX level of detail, but when you listen to it, it just enjoyable to listen to. I think ASX will make a nice IEM for "monitoring" if you are a musician. I still enjoy it tho as I do mixing live event time to time.



This past month i was thinking if any commercial IEM can fit mixing.  If i knew the results would be good then i would actually get the ASX for this purpose lol


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Just to make sure, we are talking about this one:
> 
> 
> You tried them on older KZs and they work 100% on them and the new ones like ZS10 pro,ZAX etc ?  The pins look too short for me to work on the old ones.
> ...


Not that one. Just regular 0.75mm (without the S). The one you showed is for the new KZ (zs10pro, zax, zsx).


----------



## purplesun (Oct 25, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> I kind of agree. For lack of a better term, the ASX lacks "musicality". Its like you are mixing a song, you have all these tracks (drums, bass, guitar, vocal, etc) then you adjust the positioning like oh I want guitar a little bit left panning, bass in the middle, another guitar on the right panning, etc. You can hear everything basically, but it lacks the finishing touch that makes a music as a whole.


That sounds like the analytical signature of CCA C16 (not CA16) with less bass energy, merged with AS10's bottom-end. Not for everyone, I guess.


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> That sounds like the analytical signature of CCA C16 (not CA16) with less bass energy, merged with AS10's bottom-end. Not for everyone, I guess.


Add to that the shell type just like ZSX (even worse than ZSX imho) so not everyone can have a good fit. .
Comparing the ASX with ZAX, for vocal, I like the ASX better as it has this warmth, but not muddy. The ZAX vocal sounds really thin especially female compared to ASX. 
Nothing beat the airiness of ZAX yet tho, at least from my IEM collection.

Listen to minute 3:37 and those snare beat the crap out of my brain with the ASX.


----------



## IEMusic

voicemaster said:


> Add to that the shell type just like ZSX (even worse than ZSX imho) so not everyone can have a good fit. .
> Comparing the ASX with ZAX, for vocal, I like the ASX better as it has this warmth, but not muddy. The ZAX vocal sounds really thin especially female compared to ASX.
> Nothing beat the airiness of ZAX yet tho, at least from my IEM collection.
> 
> Listen to minute 3:37 and those snare beat the crap out of my brain with the ASX.



How is the isolation on the ASX?


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 25, 2020)

IEMusic said:


> How is the isolation on the ASX?


Slightly better than ZAX. It is vented, but when the music is playing, hardly hear anything from outside tho.
Oh and it can sit deeper than ZAX because of the smaller diameter nozzle.


----------



## purplesun

voicemaster said:


> Listen to minute 3:37 and those snare beat the crap out of my brain with the ASX.



That pretty much rules most pop bands before electronic drum era! Is the snare unnaturally thin? Or too boosted? Or both?  I think some of the folks here can probably do some filter tuning with that.

Any news on the ASF?


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> That pretty much rules most pop bands before electronic drum era! Is the snare unnaturally thin? Or too boosted? Or both?  I think some of the folks here can probably do some filter tuning with that.
> 
> Any news on the ASF?


Its natural but very up front lol. The ASX has a more "complete" sound dynamically than the ZAX. On the ZAX, the snare sound thin (like metallic tsssst sound) where on the ASX is more full (thuggghhh sound lmao). You can hear the snare drumhead sound better with the ASX.

My ASF is leaving China as of today.


----------



## purplesun

voicemaster said:


> My ASF is leaving China as of today.


🤞  🦶


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Not that one. Just regular 0.75mm (without the S). The one you showed is for the new KZ (zs10pro, zax, zsx).



Yea, that's what i'm asking:  do i have to choose? or is there a chance that one of these connectors works for both new and old KZs?


----------



## slex

tgx78 said:


> [ATmp





voicemaster said:


> I am using this foamies that I bought for my Nuarl N6P.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_r5nLFbWTWT5R5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Oh and the 4 holes on the face plate, three of them are see through, I don't know if it is open or not.


Have you hook up ASX to better source besides the TRN BT20S pro? What audio files are you listening on ASX? I remembered my TRN BA8 was not suitable for TRN BT20S Pro ( bluetooth)listening, until I switched to wired and a little EQ made it sing well.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Just received my ASX today. First impression is ...interesting. Build quality is okay not as good as ZAX, closer to CA16 with those noticeable seam on the clear body. Whereas ZAX, ZS10 pro, C12, etc don't have that. The silicone tip is okay, but I like KZ starline tip better and the nozzle is smaller than ZAX. This new silicone tips make the IEM sit deeper inside the ear canal thus making the isolation/fit similar to a custom mold IEM.
> 
> On to the sound, now this is the interesting part. The vocal is very middle centric, meaning if you ever heard a 5.1CH surround sound system, the vocal/dialog comes on the center channel speaker, now the ASX is kind of sound like that. Voice is very inside your head like it seriously feels coming from the middle of the brain. This can create a somewhat busy sound because the vocal is really cramped inside the head, even I have to adjust a little bit. It can be overwhelming when first listening to it. Usually, if I put ZSX and ZAX on each side, the sound will be quite similar, it might sound a little bit different like more airy on the ZAX, etc, but when I put the ASX and ZAX together, they sound totally different.
> 
> ...



my wallet thanks you... I am very picky about the vocal


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> where on the ASX is more full (thuggghhh sound lmao)



a more monitoring sound then.. thanks for the heads up


----------



## unifutomaki

Making my way through the second instalment of El Ten Eleven's Tautology record this morning on the ZAX. Great record on a great IEM - the tracks feature layered and complex soundscapes driven primarily by bass guitar and synth drums, which the ZAX reproduces with impact, clarity and air. It does make me wonder if I even need another new IEM this coming 11/11. Heresy? I hope not


----------



## voicemaster

slex said:


> Have you hook up ASX to better source besides the TRN BT20S pro? What audio files are you listening on ASX? I remembered my TRN BA8 was not suitable for TRN BT20S Pro ( bluetooth)listening, until I switched to wired and a little EQ made it sing well.


Yes I did hook it up to my Fiio E7. I am using a wide varieties of files from Flac, mp3 and youtube. 
I actually like the sound presentation from ASX. The more I listen to it, the more I am fascinated by it. It takes some time adjusting because it is very different than my other KZ.
Vocal tho sounds sublime on the ASX, very addicting.

Again with this song, the ASX has a better 3Dness than the ZAX. Is it because it has tubing so the sound kinda separated better?


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> a more monitoring sound then.. thanks for the heads up


Yes this ASX is tuned more toward monitoring. I just listened to my old recording from an event and it sounded just the way I mixed it with many flaws lol. Even the nuance from the mic and the room sounded just like that.


----------



## rainbowneggs

hi everyone, i’m new here. i ordered the ZSX without realizing that the ZAX is more popular amongst you guys, and it’s arriving tomorrow. do you think i should order the ZAX and sell off the ZSX? are they vastly different? or should i get the ASX instead? i listen to a wide variety of genres, but i do enjoy EDM, hip-hop, vocals-heavy songs. i generally prefer mids driven IEMs but i want the bass to be punchy enough and the trebles to be clear without it being piercing at all.


----------



## hmscott (Oct 26, 2020)

rainbowneggs said:


> hi everyone, i’m new here. i ordered the ZSX without realizing that the ZAX is more popular amongst you guys, and it’s arriving tomorrow. do you think i should order the ZAX and sell off the ZSX? are they vastly different? or should i get the ASX instead? i listen to a wide variety of genres, but i do enjoy EDM, hip-hop, vocals-heavy songs. i generally prefer mids driven IEMs but i want the bass to be punchy enough and the trebles to be clear without it being piercing at all.


Hi, Welcome 

It's nice to have a few different IEM's to swap around during the day, night, weekend, inside and outside - as with anything playing with one sound or device in your ears in long stretches it's nice to be able to swap between them.

You picked a great IEM, and with KZ they have a lot of "older" models that are still just as valid today as when they came out.

The ZSX is a very fun sound and in comparison - after burn-in - the ZSX is just as fun to listen with as the ZAX.  The main difference is going to be size.  For me the ZSX is comfortable right away, as is the ZAX, and the sound was exciting when new as well.  Over time the ZSX really improved, while the ZAX is supposed to be constant - I have only spent about 40 hours on the ZAX and it sounds the same - both were very comfortable and well behaved out of the box for me.

I wouldn't worry about getting rid of the ZSX, I'd enjoy it - get used to an IEM in your ears - and use it to test different "eartips" to get the best "seal" and sound.  It took me months and a dozen different sizes, brands, and models to get the right fit and material for long hours of comfortable wear.  The KZ tips - "star-tips" named due to the lines in the exit that makes it look like a star face on - are fine for use to start and most people are happy using those only.

For me the Large was too large and the Medium not quite big enough, so I needed a MediumLarge size, and I ended up with the AZLA SednaEarfit series sized in ML.  Spinfits wouldn't work for me as well as a range of others suggested - which might work for you.

Foams were ok for a while for me, but after I found the AZLA series I haven't replaced foams that wear out.

Then there's cables.  The older brown KZ cables sound fine, but are a bit "janky", don't lay flat for me and get in the way - tangle - more often, but in the end they all tangle 

Copper cables as provided have better Bass but rolled of treble, Silver plated copper is an improvement, and Pure Silver 99.99% makes the ZAX sound amazing to me, but I haven't had that cable long enough to have pulled out the ZSX to see how it plays.  The BQYZ Spring 2's don't sound good on the Pure silver cable, so it doesn't work for everything - the treble is way too "zippy".

Probably more than you thought you needed to hear, but I wanted to let you know there is a breath to the whole IEM enjoyment greater than picking "one" IEM that solves all your listening desires.  

On 11.11 there are sales on many Chinese sites, like Aliexpress and Hifigo (also on AliExpress), perhaps you can get a ZAX, tips and cables at a nice discount - then there's the Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales too - not much time to pick your targets for purchase and build a favorites list of sites for potential sales.

I hope you enjoy the ZSX and ZAX, I sure do - and if you keep both you can swap new cables and tips between them to compare how they respond. 

I don't have the KZ ASX yet myself, I am looking forward to it - KZ keeps improving their tuning technique and I am looking forward to how that 10BA + 10BA compares in smoothness to the KZ AS16 8BA + 8BA I have - it's "giant", and sounds amazing -- given how small the ZAX 1DD+7BA is compared to the ZSX 1DD+5BA I'd imagine the ASX's 20BA's will be about the same "large" size as the AS16's 16BA's - amazing tech for only $99


----------



## TechnoidFR

voicemaster said:


> Yes I did hook it up to my Fiio E7. I am using a wide varieties of files from Flac, mp3 and youtube.
> I actually like the sound presentation from ASX. The more I listen to it, the more I am fascinated by it. It takes some time adjusting because it is very different than my other KZ.
> Vocal tho sounds sublime on the ASX, very addicting.
> 
> Again with this song, the ASX has a better 3Dness than the ZAX. Is it because it has tubing so the sound kinda separated better?





Oh interesting!

I will order it and I will compare with TRN BA8!


----------



## Slater

hmscott said:


> The KZ tips - "star-tips" named due to the lines in the exit that makes it look like a star face on - are fine for use to start and most people are happy using those only.
> 
> For me the Large was too large and the medium not quite big enough, so I needed a MediumLarge size, and I ended up with the AZLA SednaFit series sized in ML.  Spinfits wouldn't work for me as well as a range of others suggested - which might work for you.
> 
> Foams were ok for a while for me, but after I found the AZLA series I haven't replaced foams that wear out.



If you turn a M Starline into a FlipTip, it will be ML size. Since you already own them, it won’t cost you anything.


----------



## hmscott

Slater said:


> If you turn a M Starline into a FlipTip, it will be ML size. Since you already own them, it won’t cost you anything.


Amazing, what a great tip, thank you! 

How to reverse a KZ Starline silicone eartip


----------



## rainbowneggs

hmscott said:


> Hi, Welcome
> 
> It's nice to have a few different IEM's to swap around during the day, night, weekend, inside and outside - as with anything playing with one sound or device in your ears in long stretches it's nice to be able to swap between them.
> 
> ...



thank you so much for the very detailed response! i really appreciate it.  i’ve been using westone for years, since 2012 (i currently have the AM pro 30) and a couple of weeks ago, one of my friends told me that he had been using ZST and he liked them more than his 900 dollar IEMs. i was really skeptical and decided to do more research and found out that chi-fi has come a long way. the first and only KZs i’ve tried was the KS6. i didn’t like it that much because the trebles were too harsh for my liking. 

anyway, i decided to get the ZST X instead after doing some research and i was pretty impressed (bc they sounded great for its price point) and got a pair for my “non-audiophile” boyfriend as well, who likes them a lot. i ended up in this rabbit hole and went ahead and ordered the ZSX from aliexpress since shipping is not THAT slow to california. i’m really tempted to get the ZAX too (since many of you guys love it) but if they’re pretty similar to the ZSX, i don’t know if i should spend the extra money getting it too.


----------



## hmscott (Oct 26, 2020)

rainbowneggs said:


> thank you so much for the very detailed response! i really appreciate it.  i’ve been using westone for years, since 2012 (i currently have the AM pro 30) and a couple of weeks ago, one of my friends told me that he had been using ZST and he liked them more than his 900 dollar IEMs. i was really skeptical and decided to do more research and found out that chi-fi has come a long way. the first and only KZs i’ve tried was the KS6. i didn’t like it that much because the trebles were too harsh for my liking.
> 
> anyway, i decided to get the ZST X instead after doing some research and i was pretty impressed (bc they sounded great for its price point) and got a pair for my “non-audiophile” boyfriend as well, who likes them a lot. i ended up in this rabbit hole and went ahead and ordered the ZSX from aliexpress since shipping is not THAT slow to california. i’m really tempted to get the ZAX too (since many of you guys love it) but if they’re pretty similar to the ZSX, i don’t know if i should spend the extra money getting it too.


Yup, Chifi has become quite refined, the ZAX for me was smooth and pleasant right out of the box, I thought my review copy had been broken in by someone else already - but it was new and unused, fresh out of the box the ZAX was ready to go on long listening sessions.

Well, the ZSX had a break-in time for me before it was "tamed", while the ZAX comes out of the box sounding to me already broken in... so if you are put off by the initial "zippy sharp" treble of the KS6, the ZSX might also seem a bit similar initially.  For that reason I'd recommend getting the ZAX too and that way you can immediately start listening to the ZAX while the ZSX is breaking in.

Break-in can be done without listening to it yourself - set up a player to play 24/7 - stuff the IEM's in a pillow - so the sound doesn't bother, and burn the hours - say 60 hours total, but check at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 hours to see when it's tamed enough for your ears to run it the rest of the way live while you are listening.

For me the ZSX treble fresh out of the box wasn't too offensive - I broke them in while listening to them, so perhaps it will be the same for you too.  Some people have more sensitive ears for certain frequencies so some off-line break-in is helpful - and some IEM's seem to need break-in for everyone - like the TinHifi P1's / Blon BL-05's come to mind.

Please let us know how your new KZ IEM's work out for you


----------



## rainbowneggs

hmscott said:


> Well, the ZSX had a break-in time for me before it was "tamed", while the ZAX comes out of the box sounding to me already broken in... so if you are put off by the initial "zippy sharp" treble of the KS6, the ZSX might also seem a bit similar initially.  For that reason I'd recommend getting the ZAX too and that way you can immediately start listening to the ZAX while the ZSX is breaking in.
> 
> Break-in can be done without listening to it yourself - set up a player to play 24/7 - stuff the IEM's in a pillow - so the sound doesn't bother, and burn the hours - say 60 hours total, but check at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 hours to see when it's tamed enough for your ears to run it the rest of the way live while you are listening.
> 
> ...



thanks for the tip! i’ll definitely do that once mine arrives. how does a pair of ZSX that’s been broken in compare to the ZAX?


----------



## hmscott (Oct 26, 2020)

rainbowneggs said:


> thanks for the tip! i’ll definitely do that once mine arrives. how does a pair of ZSX that’s been broken in compare to the ZAX?


KZ's have a sound that can be similar across models - but some are more special than others in their tuning and merging of components that really stands out.  For me both the ZSX and ZAX are those special models - for me I noticed the ZAX has more Bass and smoother transitions between the BA's than the ZSX out of the box.

KZ spent 16 months tuning the ZSX, but they haven't said yet - that I've seen - how long it took to get the ZAX so smooth merging the BA's, such a wide soundstage, or how they got more Bass out of the same sized 10mm DD.

As I recall I was very happy with the ZSX 10 hours in to use, so perhaps you will be too and you won't want to do the independent break-in for the ZSX either.


----------



## rainbowneggs

hmscott said:


> KZ's have a sound that can be similar across models - but some are more special than others in their tuning and merging of components that really stands out.  For me both the ZSX and ZAX are those special models - for me I noticed the ZAX has more Bass and smoother transitions between the BA's than the ZSX out of the box.
> 
> KZ spent 16 months tuning the ZSX, but they haven't said yet - that I've seen - how long it took to get the ZAX so smooth merging the BA's or how they got more Bass out of the same sized 10mm DD.
> 
> As I recall I was very happy with the ZSX 10 hours in to use, so perhaps you will be too and you won't want to do the independent break-in for the ZSX either.



i may very well get the ZAX as well if i get to score some good deals for 11.11! i really look forward to getting my ZSX. i’ve been thinking about the ASX a lot but i’m hoping to read more reviews before deciding haha


----------



## voicemaster

rainbowneggs said:


> i may very well get the ZAX as well if i get to score some good deals for 11.11! i really look forward to getting my ZSX. i’ve been thinking about the ASX a lot but i’m hoping to read more reviews before deciding haha


The only negative thing with zsx is the body style. Some people won't fit quite well with the zsx whereas the zax body style doesn't have this problem. Otherwise, they both good.


----------



## rainbowneggs

voicemaster said:


> The only negative thing with zsx is the body style. Some people won't fit quite well with the zsx whereas the zax body style doesn't have this problem. Otherwise, they both good.



i guess i’ll have to find out for myself once they get here haha. would you say they sound similar? 

also, i saw that you’ve gotten your ASX. would you recommend it to non musicians who are not planning to use them for monitoring?


----------



## voicemaster

rainbowneggs said:


> i guess i’ll have to find out for myself once they get here haha. would you say they sound similar?
> 
> also, i saw that you’ve gotten your ASX. would you recommend it to non musicians who are not planning to use them for monitoring?


They both still share the same KZ sound signature. If you can try both and can easily return whichever you like less then I suggest you do. 
Now, the ASX is quite an interesting IEM imho. In some songs, it sound absolutely amazing and in some songs it sounds like something is wrong lol. I am guessing it is to do with the mastering of the song, but I am not sure either. I am not saying they sounded bad when playing youtube or low bitrate file, but it is just how they present the music like the instrumental placement, etc can be quite different from the ZAX or other IEMs.


----------



## 3Putter

I really enjoy my ZSX's. Took a bit of burn in time and new cables but they sound terrific. I am partial to my Periodic Audio sets but when I want something I can put in and leave without a care the ZSX work wonders and for $40 how can you be unhappy?


----------



## voicemaster

Holy molly... now this is crazy. I compared this song using the ZAX and ASX. 
With the ZAX, you get a pretty nice openness, separation and all, but its mostly 2 dimensionals. Doug's voice is moving in and out, left and right, forward and back, but in the ZAX its only moving left and right.
Now with the ASX, damn... I can feel I am in the room and when his voice move, it move in 3D like inside the head. It is freaking unbelievable. 


Another favorite song for my IEM testing. On the ASX, I can hear clearly the timpani drum skin vibrated on the right side, whereas the ZAX just mostly sound bum bum bum. Also there is a sk sk sk sk sound (maracas?) on the right side where in the ASX it sounds natural and not bright while on the ZAX it is very thin and bright.


----------



## Wgibson

Just checked aliexpress and the AS16 are less than $70 in a few places, should be around $60 during the next sale if you get your coupons right. Worth a look maybe? Probably not for me, got too many similar ones already (C16, CA16, ZAX) but a heads up for anyone looking.


----------



## baskingshark

Wgibson said:


> Just checked aliexpress and the AS16 are less than $70 in a few places, should be around $60 during the next sale if you get your coupons right. Worth a look maybe? Probably not for me, got too many similar ones already (C16, CA16, ZAX) but a heads up for anyone looking.



Well KZ AS16 didn't have the best reviews TBH. It was their first foray into the $100ish territory and it didn't do too well compared to the tough competition against the other big boys. I think KZ are trying to clear old unsold stock of AS16, now that the new $100 set ASX is released.


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> Well KZ AS16 didn't have the best reviews TBH. It was their first foray into the $100ish territory and it didn't do too well compared to the tough competition against the other big boys. I think KZ are trying to clear old unsold stock of AS16, now that the new $100 set ASX is released.


AS16 are one of my favourite IEMs.

The bass (of two BAs) is there, but only when called for - so it is not for bassheads.

The pinna gain is high (not as prominent as in A10/KB10 though), so it is not for treble-shy and all genres of music, e.g. electronic.

AS16 complement more treble shy mid-centric C16 well for me.

I hope ASX will do better at least in some aspects


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> Holy molly... now this is crazy. I compared this song using the ZAX and ASX.
> With the ZAX, you get a pretty nice openness, separation and all, but its mostly 2 dimensionals. Doug's voice is moving in and out, left and right, forward and back, but in the ZAX its only moving left and right.
> Now with the ASX, damn... I can feel I am in the room and when his voice move, it move in 3D like inside the head. It is freaking unbelievable.




I love Doug Macleod!  I’ve seen him a couple of times.


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> AS16 are one of my favourite IEMs.
> 
> The bass (of two BAs) is there, but only when called for - so it is not for bassheads.
> 
> ...


The ASX has smoothen out quite a bit after 20+ hours of playing. It is not as edgy as before but still has that slam on the treble (snare) but its not as harsh as before. The bass also tightened up and pretty well balance as well. Not for basshead at all tho. It has that BA driver clicky bass and also a nice rumble of DD, but not as airy as DD yet but quite close. Also, if the mix from the song is not good, the ASX will sound really bad.


----------



## rainbowneggs

what would be the best cable(s) for ASX? low key thinking about ordering them soon after seeing some of the discounts on aliexpress


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## hmscott (Oct 27, 2020)

rainbowneggs said:


> what would be the best cable(s) for ASX? low key thinking about ordering them soon after seeing some of the discounts on aliexpress


There is a great thread here on affordable IEM cables:

Low end. Cheap. Generic. Otherwise bang for buck cable thread!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ng-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/post-14560327

For me I like the availability, price, build quality, and variety of connectors on both ends of the KB EAR (KBEAR) cables.  Originally priced from $29-39 on Amazon - cheaper now, they are available on AliExpress and Hifigo.com for less, and during sales even less - I recently bought the 99.99% pure 4N Silver KB EAR cables for $17!

Copper is good for too bright cables, that's why KZ ships with them - and they are less expensive material than Silver plated or Pure Silver, and other high end materials - Cryogenically Cooled, single draw crystal OCC, etc.

The new ZAX's sound great on Copper, Silver Plated, and even Pure Silver - where other out of the box IEM's would be shrill the ZAX remains smooth - at least for my ears.

Here's some links to cables I've purchased and enjoy:

*KBEAR 16 Core Pure Copper cable with metal 2pin Connector 4.4mm*
https://hifigo.com/products/kb-ear-...pin-mmcx-qdc-connector?variant=31122971033649
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33039619405.html

*KB EAR 16 Core Silver Earphone IEM Cable with Metal 2pin/MMCX/QDC 4.4mm*
https://hifigo.com/products/kb-ear-...th-metal-2pin-mmcx-qdc?variant=31605483536433
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33045414046.html

*KBEAR 4 Core 4N 99.99% Purity Silver Earphone Cable with 2Pin/QDC/MMC/TFZ 4.4mm*
https://hifigo.com/products/kbear-4...-with-2pin-qdc-mmc-tfz?variant=32250235387953

These days I usually get 4.4mm ends because my current amps have a 4.4mm balanced port available - and those ports have more power than the 3.5mm output port.

KB EAR has 3.5mm, 2.5mm, 4.4mm and I've seen 3.5Pro cables out there too but not sure if KB EAR has them - the new Cayin Tube Amp N3Pro has the new standard 3.5Pro hybrid balanced / single-ended compatible cable.

I also have some 2.5mm balanced cables for my BTR5 / BTR3k, but I prefer the heftier 4.4mm if I can use them.

*KBEAR 8 Core Upgrade 2 Pin Earphone Cable, HiFi in Ear Monitor Replacement TRS Cable Silver Plated Copper Extension Cable with 0.78mm 2 Pin for AS10 ZS10 ZST ZS6 CCA C10 TRN V80 X6 (2 PIN 3.5mm)*
https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Earphone-Detachable-Replacement-Monitor/dp/B07RZY5C8D
https://www.amazon.com/Detachable-Earphone-Upgrade-Braided-Replacement/dp/B07S2VQDD8

*KB EAR's Official Store on AliExpress*:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5017064?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000002.2.276c4c02Opv5ZK
*KB EAR 2,4,8,16 core cables:*
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gr...51795de6kJlmgr&origin=n&SortType=new_desc&g=y

I don't have the ASX's yet, it would be safe to have Copper, Silver Plated, and Pure Silver cables with the ASX connection (2-pin?), and whatever end's your AMP needs that provide the best output - 3.5mm single ended vs 2.5mm balanced, vs 4.4mm balanced.  That way as the ASX (and ZSX!) burn-in you can progressively test the response to each cable as time progresses.

The 11.11 sale is coming up soon, and KB EAR already has some great discounts on their cables. Also, if you check in the KB EAR cables area on AliExpress you'll see even cheaper model cables using OCC copper and silver plating, as well as $40+ cables too.

Please let us know which cable(s) work for you with the new ASX and ZSX!


----------



## astermk

voicemaster said:


> Holy molly... now this is crazy. I compared this song using the ZAX and ASX.
> With the ZAX, you get a pretty nice openness, separation and all, but its mostly 2 dimensionals. Doug's voice is moving in and out, left and right, forward and back, but in the ZAX its only moving left and right.
> Now with the ASX, damn... I can feel I am in the room and when his voice move, it move in 3D like inside the head. It is freaking unbelievable.
> 
> ...



The ASX has a _better soundstage _even though the ZAX is semi-open and the ASX only has a few small vent holes? I wonder how that works.

I freaked a little when I saw the FR graph from Crinacle: 




Would you say it sounds like it graphs? Because this looks v e r y odd with the huge slope beginning at 800Hz and it seems to lack upper treble. And the V shape looks pretty extreme so I was worried about the mids (well, the lower mids really) being too recessed.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

voicemaster said:


> The ASX has smoothen out quite a bit after 20+ hours of playing. It is not as edgy as before but still has that slam on the treble (snare) but its not as harsh as before. The bass also tightened up and pretty well balance as well. Not for basshead at all tho. It has that BA driver clicky bass and also a nice rumble of DD, but not as airy as DD yet but quite close. Also, if the mix from the song is not good, the ASX will sound really bad.



Hmm, so the ASF with already smoothened mid/treble (according to the graph) and bigger bass can be more universal. And after the burn-in .... looking forward to some impressions.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

PhonoPhi said:


> CA16 are similarly treble-dampened.
> 
> Actually, if the treble filters are removed in AS12, it becomes really treble mighty (a treble beast).
> A10/KB10 sound gentle in comparison.
> ...



What is great about AS12, it has little to no BA timbre in treble area with no peaks. I'm curious about ASF/X timbre.
And the AS12's bass? Better than Moondrop S8, TSMR-4 and others. Almost DD like.
KZ really knows how to reproduce Bass.


----------



## voicemaster

astermk said:


> The ASX has a _better soundstage _even though the ZAX is semi-open and the ASX only has a few small vent holes? I wonder how that works.
> 
> I freaked a little when I saw the FR graph from Crinacle:
> 
> Would you say it sounds like it graphs? Because this looks v e r y odd with the huge slope beginning at 800Hz and it seems to lack upper treble. And the V shape looks pretty extreme so I was worried about the mids (well, the lower mids really) being too recessed.


No the ASX lose in the openess against ZAX, but it beat it with "3D" like having a Dolby Atmos inside your head. It is hard to explain because at first I was confused too, like the sound is too focus on the inside of my head and it can become fuzzy, but the sound definitely change as you keep listening with it.
I go back and forth between ASX and ZAX, I can hear the ZAX sometimes sounds "fake"?? And overly thin vocal. I don't know why because when I compared the ZAX against all the other KZ, it sounded open, natural and detailed, but against the ASX, the vocal sounds thin, while the treble extension can sound like if you have EQ and you boosted around 10-15khz by 1-2dB too much. The ASX while not having the "openness", it sounds more natural especially the vocal, the graph might show a dip in the 700-800Hz but no the vocal has that warmth, female vocal especially I can hear the low notes better on the ASX (well not when they are belting). I am having "What" moment every time I hear Doug Macleod "There's a Time" album, its like you are in the room with the musicians and Doug's doing ASMR with the mic lol.


Listen to minute 3:45 and listen to the cymbals on the left side, on the ZAX, it is just on your left side, but on the ASX it is also on your left, but its position is lower close to your shoulder.


----------



## voicemaster

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Hmm, so the ASF with already smoothened mid/treble (according to the graph) and bigger bass can be more universal. And after the burn-in .... looking forward to some impressions.


It is something that I have never experienced myself in an IEM. I am also looking forward to the ASF (its coming soon hopefully...).


----------



## voicemaster

Classic binaural audio. Very good spatial, when he uses the razor, I can hear it not on my ears but a little bit above the ear as it should be.


----------



## ZAXon 7

voicemaster said:


> Holy molly... now this is crazy. I compared this song using the ZAX and ASX.
> With the ZAX, you get a pretty nice openness, separation and all, but its mostly 2 dimensionals. Doug's voice is moving in and out, left and right, forward and back, but in the ZAX its only moving left and right.
> Now with the ASX, damn... I can feel I am in the room and when his voice move, it move in 3D like inside the head. It is freaking unbelievable.




didn't know him, great artist, thanks!

now i would like to compare ZAX and ASX... this is the rabbit's hole door, ain't it?

Luckily i'm too busy enjoying my ZAX, i've always known that Ben Harper records has an 'audiophile dimension' i've never been able to reproduce, now with ZAX, dolby atmos and viper i've found that deep, punchy, spacey, dynamic and detailed sound i love.
Event 12 Little Spells by Esperanza Spalding, an album at the very limit of my taste and ability to understand, now has a new life, i've been able to appreciate the details, the musicality and her genius.


----------



## voicemaster

ZAXon 7 said:


> didn't know him, great artist, thanks!
> 
> now i would like to compare ZAX and ASX... this is the rabbit's hole door, ain't it?
> 
> ...


You should try the ASX if you can get them where you can return them easily. I haven't heard an IEM to be able to present height yet, I know headphones can because of their massive driver, but IEM... this is first time.


----------



## ZAXon 7

voicemaster said:


> You should try the ASX if you can get them where you can return them easily. I haven't heard an IEM to be able to present height yet, I know headphones can because of their massive driver, but IEM... this is first time.



i'll wait for your review of the ASF and see what happens on 11/11, wife wants the ZAX too, let's see...


----------



## voicemaster

ZAXon 7 said:


> i'll wait for your review of the ASF and see what happens on 11/11, wife wants the ZAX too, let's see...


Yea, I will do comparison between ZAX, ASF and ASX. As of now, the ASX has dethroned my ZAX as my favorite (from KZ) IEM. I have 2 ZAXs too... 
Oh and the ASX is a lot harder to drive to the same level as ZAX.


----------



## nraymond

voicemaster said:


> You should try the ASX if you can get them where you can return them easily. I haven't heard an IEM to be able to present height yet, I know headphones can because of their massive driver, but IEM... this is first time.



It's not the "massive driver" per se that results in better localization for over-ear headphones, but rather they radiate a wavefront that interacts with the individual listener's pinna, which is closer to the way that listening to real-world sound (without headphones) works. With an IEM, it bypasses the pinna and so the IEM has to simulate the pinna in it's frequency response curve, and since each person's pinna is physically different, how well a given IEM matches a person's physiology varies. It could be that the ASX simulates the function of your personal pinna better than other IEMs you've tried.


----------



## ZAXon 7

voicemaster said:


> Yea, I will do comparison between ZAX, ASF and ASX. As of now, the ASX has dethroned my ZAX as my favorite (from KZ) IEM. I have 2 ZAXs too...
> Oh and the ASX is a lot harder to drive to the same level as ZAX.



if i got it right, you consider the ASX as a unique IEM for its ability to present height, so where do you place it (and the ZAX) in the money vs. improvements curve? which IEM do you consider better?
consider that the ZAX is my first and only IEM so i have no comparison terms...


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## voicemaster (Oct 27, 2020)

ZAXon 7 said:


> if i got it right, you consider the ASX as a unique IEM for its ability to present height, so where do you place it (and the ZAX) in the money vs. improvements curve? which IEM do you consider better?
> consider that the ZAX is my first and only IEM so i have no comparison terms...


The ZAX sounds good and I will easily recommend it to people looking for IEM. But the ASX is a different beast imho, when you can play in the vertical plane, the song become completely different.
Which one I consider better? ASX. It offers a more realistic and natural sound than the ZAX to me. Not to mention the detail retrieval is on another level imho.


Here is a binaural recording of walking in the rain and the ASX makes you feel like you are there, the sound of rain hitting the umbrella is on the parietal area instead of the temporal area. All the ambiance is so realistic its surreal. On the ZAX, the rain is only coming from your left and right side. Also, the sound of the rain hitting the umbrella kinda too thin imho. I know that sound and the ZAX sounds overly bright here. The ASX sounds so realistic, its actually kind of creepy yet addicting.


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## ZAXon 7 (Oct 27, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> The ZAX sounds good and I will easily recommend it to people looking for IEM. But the ASX is a different beast imho, when you can play in the vertical plane, the song become completely different.
> Which one I consider better? ASX. It offers a more realistic and natural sound than the ZAX to me. Not to mention the detail retrieval is on another level imho.
> 
> 
> Here is a binaural recording of walking in the rain and the ASX makes you feel like you are there, the sound of rain hitting the umbrella is on the parietal area instead of the temporal area. All the ambiance is so realistic its surreal. On the ZAX, the rain is only coming from your left and right side. Also, the sound of the rain hitting the umbrella kinda too thin imho. I know that sound and the ZAX sounds overly bright here. The ASX sounds so realistic, its actually kind of creepy yet addicting.



thank you for your kindness, i didn't ask the question correctly, i didn't mean which is better between ZAX and ASX, but what's better than ASX in general, given your experience in IEM.


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## purplesun (Oct 27, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Here is a binaural recording of walking in the rain and the ASX makes you feel like you are there, the sound of rain hitting the umbrella is on the parietal area instead of the temporal area. All the ambiance is so realistic its surreal. On the ZAX, the rain is only coming from your left and right side. Also, the sound of the rain hitting the umbrella kinda too thin imho. I know that sound and the ZAX sounds overly bright here. The ASX sounds so realistic, its actually kind of creepy yet addicting.


You should try watching some recent science fiction shows/movies. Some sound effects directors can go too hard on the spatial controls. Was watching Star Trek Discovery S1 with my CCA C16. It took me by surprise - when the shuttle came in for landing from left-of-screen - visually, it looked about 100m to 200m distance travelled on-screen but, sonically, it seemed like it flew in from several kilometres away! I have not used C16 for movie-watching since then. AS10 does a much better job for my ears. But an interesting experience, nonetheless


----------



## voicemaster

ZAXon 7 said:


> thank you for your kindness, i didn't ask the question correctly, i didn't mean which is better between ZAX and ASX, but what's better than ASX in general, given your experience in IEM.


Well from my collections, none. Their instrument positioning is pretty accurate. This of course only shown in binaural recording.

Like here for example, in the ZAX, the drums sound like really close like the mic is close like 1 feet away from the drums. The ASX on the other hand present the drum a bit further up front just like how you see from the camera.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 27, 2020)

I watche


purplesun said:


> You should try watching some recent science fiction shows/movies. Some sound effects directors can go too hard on the spatial controls. Was watching Star Trek Discovery S1 with my CCA C16. It took me by surprise - when the shuttle came in for landing from left-of-screen - visually, it looked about 100m to 200m distance travelled on-screen but, sonically, it seemed like it flew in from several kilometres away! I have not used C16 for movie-watching since then. AS10 does a much better job for my ears. But an interesting experience, nonetheless


I watched Interstellar using the ASX and the scene when they enter the wormhole is pretty intense. The ASX is quite accurate in term of depicting length, if you watch the video I posted before this, I talked about it.
Watched "Arrival" and when the scene inside the chopper where they went to see the alien ship for the first time, the camera did a wide pan and you can hear the chopper and the jets flew by and the distance is accurate imho.


----------



## alamnp

astermk said:


> The ASX has a _better soundstage _even though the ZAX is semi-open and the ASX only has a few small vent holes? I wonder how that works.
> 
> I freaked a little when I saw the FR graph from Crinacle:
> 
> Would you say it sounds like it graphs? Because this looks v e r y odd with the huge slope beginning at 800Hz and it seems to lack upper treble. And the V shape looks pretty extreme so I was worried about the mids (well, the lower mids really) being too recessed.



what an odd looking graph... KZ does put a brave front with this tuning.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Well from my collections, none. Their instrument positioning is pretty accurate. This of course only shown in binaural recording.
> 
> Like here for example, in the ZAX, the drums sound like really close like the mic is close like 1 feet away from the drums. The ASX on the other hand present the drum a bit further up front just like how you see from the camera.




wow, I can’t even imagine that...

you need to be on the other boards too not just KZ.

i love TFZs and TRN, sadly nobody is like you peeling off their IEMs like you do.

after CA16 and ZAX, they all almost sound the same except a certain aspect where the specific IEM is created for.


----------



## seanwee

rainbowneggs said:


> thank you so much for the very detailed response! i really appreciate it.  i’ve been using westone for years, since 2012 (i currently have the AM pro 30) and a couple of weeks ago, one of my friends told me that he had been using ZST and he liked them more than his 900 dollar IEMs. i was really skeptical and decided to do more research and found out that chi-fi has come a long way. the first and only KZs i’ve tried was the KS6. i didn’t like it that much because the trebles were too harsh for my liking.
> 
> anyway, i decided to get the ZST X instead after doing some research and i was pretty impressed (bc they sounded great for its price point) and got a pair for my “non-audiophile” boyfriend as well, who likes them a lot. i ended up in this rabbit hole and went ahead and ordered the ZSX from aliexpress since shipping is not THAT slow to california. i’m really tempted to get the ZAX too (since many of you guys love it) but if they’re pretty similar to the ZSX, i don’t know if i should spend the extra money getting it too.


I've tried a lot of westone iems and never liked their dark and muddy yet sometimes sibilant sound


----------



## seanwee

hmscott said:


> Copper is good for too bright cables, that's why KZ ships with them - and they are less expensive material than Silver plated or Pure Silver, and other high end materials - Cryogenically Cooled, single draw crystal OCC, etc.


I'm sure its just purely because of cost lmao.

That said, KZ's cables are better than the stock cables on my QDC neptune. The stock cables on those are one of the worst I've ever heard.


----------



## Makahl

Just playing with some mods on the EDX. Funny that you can basically get the VK4's curve with a smidgen of cotton stuffed into the eartip. Wondering if the VK4 uses a sort of foam/filter inside of the nozzle and EDX is just filterless. I'd try opening the EDX's nozzle grill to check it out, but it isn't popping off with my prying edges method with a sewing needle, it feels like the grill is glued.

The results:



As it was mentioned before, fully covering the nozzle with micropore completely mess up the sound. Covering 50% works better depending on your goal but I think I'll retire the micropore as a mod for taming upper-mids/treble. It ages like milk, so after some weeks your result may vary since the tape degrades quite fast and the tape's glue gets messy onto the nozzle. 

I'm really liking the cotton stuffed into the eartip, your result will vary a lot depending on the quantity of cotton, but it takes less than 1 minute to perform the mod, and usually, it won't muffle the bass so you can get pretty good results if you don't overdose the quantity. It won't get gummy after some weeks just like micropore tape, the trade-off would be it works optimal only with narrow tips, so if you like wide-bore this won't work very well. 

I think foam would work well too, but a smidgen of cotton is more reliable to achieve the same modding result, each foam has its own characteristic and thickness, so depending on the foam your result will vary a lot. 




(for example, this one is too thick and dampens much more than the "animal foam" posted early)


----------



## Sebulr

Makahl said:


> Just playing with some mods on the EDX. Funny that you can basically get the VK4's curve with a smidgen of cotton stuffed into the eartip. Wondering if the VK4 uses a sort of foam/filter inside of the nozzle and EDX is just filterless. I'd try opening the EDX's nozzle grill to check it out, but it isn't popping off with my prying edges method with a sewing needle, it feels like the grill is glued.
> 
> The results:
> 
> ...


I've mentioned it before, but I did a similar mod to my zs10 pros. I just removed the grill and stuffed a small piece if tissue in the nozzle. Too much and it muffled the earphone too much. Same amount in each tube. Then replace the grill over the top. Nice to see a graph. Didn't think it would make that much difference as it does with your graphs. But then I just used a little. Just enough to stop it falling in or out. The good thing is, it's fully reversable in a few minutes. 

I'm tempted to do this with my blon bl 05 as I dislike the uppermids on those. But I don't really like the bass on those either, so it's probably a waste of time. Thumbs up from me.


----------



## ChristianM

Is the black color of ZAX and ZSX the same or pretty much different? thanks


----------



## rainbowneggs (Oct 28, 2020)

it's been two days since i've gotten my ZSX and surprisingly the trebles are not as harsh as I expected (well, a little but tolerable). i tried it with my silver copper foil cable as well as a silver plated cable. it sounds amazing with the former but with the spc, the trebles were too harsh for my liking. tbh i wasn't expecting cables to make that much of a difference. anyhoo, i was thinking of biting the bullet and order the ASX. i wonder if copper cables or spc sound better for the ASX. would be nice if anybody with a pair of ASX can weigh in on this :>


----------



## Pelicampe

Hello all.

New to the forum, thank you all for taking the time to share your experiences. 
Thanks to all the testers, I acquired Blon BL03, CCA C16 and CA16, KZ S2 and ISN H40 and am very happy with them! (who said rabbit hole?)

I am currently very interested in the new KZ ASX and await the sales of 11.11 on AE.

But with your experience, can you explain this to me:

The ASX could be found at 62 € at the lowest, 66 € on average.
Why at the approach of 11.11, the prices have gone up so much, 85 € and the promotional promises announce prices at 75!

Are we going to find the 62-66 € before these sales?

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## voicemaster

Pelicampe said:


> Hello all.
> 
> New to the forum, thank you all for taking the time to share your experiences.
> Thanks to all the testers, I acquired Blon BL03, CCA C16 and CA16, KZ S2 and ISN H40 and am very happy with them! (who said rabbit hole?)
> ...


Because the seller is not stupid lol. They increase price now then later at 11.11, they discounted that price, it will be a bit lower but not too low as to not profit.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

voicemaster said:


> Because the seller is not stupid lol. They increase price now then later at 11.11, they discounted that price, it will be a bit lower but not too low as to not profit.



Totally. Many stores have jacked up prices of this sales potential big hitters from KZ, KBEar, CCA etc.


----------



## Pelicampe

These will be my 1st 11.11 sales.
Since I read everyone looking forward to them I thought there were some real big promos.
In fact the prices are already broken all year round (at least on this kind of product?). 

Thx Voicemaster for your return to ASX. you piqued my interest.


----------



## voicemaster

Pelicampe said:


> These will be my 1st 11.11 sales.
> Since I read everyone looking forward to them I thought there were some real big promos.
> In fact the prices are already broken all year round (at least on this kind of product?).
> 
> Thx Voicemaster for your return to ASX. you piqued my interest.


I already ordered the black one yesterday. $20 discount on AE.


----------



## Nanokillzx

voicemaster said:


> It is something that I have never experienced myself in an IEM. I am also looking forward to the ASF (its coming soon hopefully...).



I just got my ASF. Was wondering if somebody else got theirs too. I only have the ZS10 Pro to compare it to, and the AS10 I previously owned. From my memory, this is a definite improvement but also a different thing from AS10. 






I spent my entire day yesterday A-B'ing the ZS10 Pro and initially I was put off by the bass. I initially thought it was dark and the vocals was sort of off. I still am in the middle of my honeymoon period with it but the more I listen to it, the more it sounds natural compared to the ZS10 Pro, especially in the high treble area. So I can see why you said ZAX sounded unnatural in that area as well compared to the ASX.

As you probably can tell with the ASX as well, it images quite differently from other IEMs and I just can't put my finger on why or how it's happening. Will try to post my own intensive thoughts with it after my honeymoon period

Tested with FiiO Q1 mk2 balanced & unbalanced and Xiaomi Mi 9T, Daft Punk - Random Access Memories,


----------



## baskingshark

Pelicampe said:


> Hello all.
> 
> New to the forum, thank you all for taking the time to share your experiences.
> Thanks to all the testers, I acquired Blon BL03, CCA C16 and CA16, KZ S2 and ISN H40 and am very happy with them! (who said rabbit hole?)
> ...




The secret for 11/11 is to stack coupons with the discounted price to get an even better deal.

Here's a post about the different coupons you can get and stack: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-3420#post-15944621

Here's a post about an example of how to stack coupons to lower the price on top of the discounted price: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-2154#post-15943521

Here's a link for the lowest prices of some common CHIFI IEMs for 11/11: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-2154#post-15943066


----------



## voicemaster

Nanokillzx said:


> I just got my ASF. Was wondering if somebody else got theirs too. I only have the ZS10 Pro to compare it to, and the AS10 I previously owned. From my memory, this is a definite improvement but also a different thing from AS10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does the vocal seems to be very focus in middle of your head? At first, it can feel disconnected from the others like everything else has their own space individually, but as you keep listening, it starts to gel together. That was what I experienced with the ASX. My ASF is still in transit in Hongkong =(


----------



## hmscott (Nov 6, 2020)

rainbowneggs said:


> it's been two days since i've gotten my ZSX and surprisingly the trebles are not as harsh as I expected (well, a little but tolerable). i tried it with my silver copper foil cable as well as a silver plated cable. it sounds amazing with the former but with the spc, the trebles were too harsh for my liking. *tbh i wasn't expecting cables to make that much of a difference*. anyhoo, i was thinking of biting the bullet and order the ASX. i wonder if copper cables or spc sound better for the ASX. would be nice if anybody with a pair of ASX can weigh in on this :>


Yup, it is a really special moment the first time you hear the clearly audible differences in cables - when you've heard for so long it's "bunk" - why those people that spout that BS never try it for themselves before pronouncing on something they haven't a clue about I'll never know.

The ZSX will always be bright, but the edges should soften a bit the more hours you play music through it.

IDK if it will be enough to make the SilverPlatedCable tolerable for listening for you, but it has for my listening.

KZ has worked on smoother treble for a long time and the KZ ZAX is much better out of the box - in fact I was able to use SPC and limpid 99.99% pure silver cables on it with in minutes out of the box and loving the sound of it.

There is a KZ ASX coming for me, I'll post how it compares on the various cables, copper, SPC, pure silver when it arrives.


----------



## Nimweth

ChristianM said:


> Is the black color of ZAX and ZSX the same or pretty much different? thanks


The ZSX is a charcoal grey colour. The ZAX is a matt black. They are quite different.


----------



## Nanokillzx

voicemaster said:


> Does the vocal seems to be very focus in middle of your head? At first, it can feel disconnected from the others like everything else has their own space individually, but as you keep listening, it starts to gel together. That was what I experienced with the ASX. My ASF is still in transit in Hongkong =(



Yep, the vocals seemed to be very centered and intimate, and it seems to me that vocal 'echos' are still very centered. The way it presents itself in terms of imaging really is weirding me out (knowing that it is feeling more and more natural now), and it pretty much will be a miss for _most _people. For me it's not good for casual listeners or long listening sessions as well due to its treble but it really is fun and I'm picking out just a _little _bit more of detail against the ZS10 Pro. Gonna spend some more time with it though. Fit is also great though! But that's something that probably won't be true for all people though--------------------------- but ****, why'd they have to make the nozzles smaller


----------



## voicemaster

Nanokillzx said:


> Yep, the vocals seemed to be very centered and intimate, and it seems to me that vocal 'echos' are still very centered. The way it presents itself in terms of imaging really is weirding me out (knowing that it is feeling more and more natural now), and it pretty much will be a miss for _most _people. For me it's not good for casual listeners or long listening sessions as well due to its treble but it really is fun and I'm picking out just a _little _bit more of detail against the ZS10 Pro. Gonna spend some more time with it though. Fit is also great though! But that's something that probably won't be true for all people though--------------------------- but ****, why'd they have to make the nozzles smaller


Yep, people will diss this IEM badly sadly. The treble has never been an issue in my ASX. If you are coming from ZAX, it may sound dull at first then you realize how the ASX present the drums is different than ZAX. Try some binaural recording and hear how realistic it is in term of distance and depth, in the ASX it is almost surreal. Oh and movie of course, its like having a surround sound inside your head.


----------



## ZAXon 7

voicemaster said:


> Yea, I will do comparison between ZAX, ASF and ASX. As of now, the ASX has dethroned my ZAX as my favorite (from KZ) IEM. I have 2 ZAXs too...
> Oh and the ASX is a lot harder to drive to the same level as ZAX.


almost forgot to ask... 
what did you mean with 'ASX is a lot harder to drive to the same level as ZAX' ?


----------



## saldsald

Pelicampe said:


> Hello all.
> 
> New to the forum, thank you all for taking the time to share your experiences.
> Thanks to all the testers, I acquired Blon BL03, CCA C16 and CA16, KZ S2 and ISN H40 and am very happy with them! (who said rabbit hole?)
> ...





voicemaster said:


> Yep, people will diss this IEM badly sadly. The treble has never been an issue in my ASX. If you are coming from ZAX, it may sound dull at first then you realize how the ASX present the drums is different than ZAX. Try some binaural recording and hear how realistic it is in term of distance and depth, in the ASX it is almost surreal. Oh and movie of course, its like having a surround sound inside your head.


Do you find the treble a bit ear piercing at time especially on vocal tracks? I probably would like this one if the treble is smoother. I find myself enjoying the sound with this pair on some instrumental tracks but really find too busy on others especially tracks with female vocal or cello. Any tricks you can share or it is all track dependent?


----------



## voicemaster

ZAXon 7 said:


> almost forgot to ask...
> what did you mean with 'ASX is a lot harder to drive to the same level as ZAX' ?


Meaning to get to the same volume level, but it is not much harder as I've said before. But it still need higher volume than zax.


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> Do you find the treble a bit ear piercing at time especially on vocal tracks? I probably would like this one if the treble is smoother. I find myself enjoying the sound with this pair on some instrumental tracks but really find too busy on others especially tracks with female vocal or cello. Any tricks you can share or it is all track dependent?


All tracks dependent. Try to use foam tips if you find the treble to be piercing. I don’t experience anymore treble piercing since I used foam tips. And also it will mellow out a bit on mine.


----------



## alamnp

ZAXon 7 said:


> almost forgot to ask...
> what did you mean with 'ASX is a lot harder to drive to the same level as ZAX' ?



I am assuming same like CA16


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Oct 29, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> All tracks dependent. Try to use foam tips if you find the treble to be piercing. I don’t experience anymore treble piercing since I used foam tips. And also it will mellow out a bit on mine.


Foam tips are good for smoothening treble peaks.
But I'm not fun of them anymore. My experience is that they aslo remove air from hi-end and low-end. And I also hear shift at midrange towards the brighter tone.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> All tracks dependent. Try to use foam tips if you find the treble to be piercing. I don’t experience anymore treble piercing since I used foam tips. And also it will mellow out a bit on mine.



Thanks, I don't usually use foam tips due to hygiene and fit. Maybe I will try cable rolling first. I tried the ASX with a graphene-copper cable.


----------



## Podster

Hello my fine fellow (and maybe a few lady) KZ fans  Pod's just always amazed at the speed of this thread as well as KZ themselves because what I'm listening to today is already old school KZ! LOL Really enjoying a little "Mother do you think they'll drop the bomb" about now and as always KZ puts the word bargain in portable iem's


----------



## PhonoPhi

saldsald said:


> ....a graphene-copper cable.


Why do they do it to people?
(Graphene is a single layer sp2 carbon, whichever else is in those cables surely improve (increase) only their cost....)


----------



## alamnp

To tell you the truth in the universe of affordable Chifi, nothing can beat KZ at this moment.

In terms quality control and innovation, KZ blows pass through TRN, Blon, CCA, etc. hands down. 

Most of other Chi Fi need to sound good with EQ, while KZ for most part, you plug your IEM, you already have a heavenly sound even for the cheapest one KZ ED9.


----------



## PhonoPhi

alamnp said:


> To tell you the truth in the universe of affordable Chifi, nothing can beat KZ at this moment.
> 
> In terms quality control and innovation, KZ blows pass through TRN, Blon, CCA, etc. hands down.
> 
> Most of other Chi Fi need to sound good with EQ, while KZ for most part, you plug your IEM, you already have a heavenly sound even for the cheapest one KZ ED9.


Agreed!
Just few addenda.

KZ and CCA are pretty much the same, and the same good quality.

Just those paragraph C connectors are the main problem right now - cracks and the breakage.
I did not have any of the breakage, but a lot of hairline cracks in multiple KZ/CCA IEMs.


----------



## voicemaster

Hopefully by tomorrow or saturday they delivered my ASF.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

alamnp said:


> To tell you the truth in the universe of affordable Chifi, nothing can beat KZ at this moment.
> 
> In terms quality control and innovation, KZ blows pass through TRN, Blon, CCA, etc. hands down.
> 
> Most of other Chi Fi need to sound good with EQ, while KZ for most part, you plug your IEM, you already have a heavenly sound even for the cheapest one KZ ED9.



Totally. Only a few can even dare to go toe to toe with them in the budget segment. But they have absolutely no competition when it comes to inventory. With their mass friendly tuning, they have more hits than misses. No wonder they're the top dogs in budget segment and almost every brand is playing catch-up to them. I believe that with ASX they want to challenge VSonic's dominance in the ~$100 category.


----------



## voicemaster

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Foam tips are good for smoothening treble peaks.
> But I'm not fun of them anymore. My experience is that they aslo remove air from hi-end and low-end. And I also hear shift at midrange towards the brighter tone.


But them westone foamies are different than the foamies regular IEM use tho. Does westone still using the small and long nozzle? Their foamies are thick as hell and the hole is small. The one we normally use has a wider hole and shorter than what westone use.


----------



## voicemaster

Dani157 said:


> Totally. Only a few can even dare to go toe to toe with them in the budget segment. But they have absolutely no competition when it comes to inventory. With their mass friendly tuning, they have more hits than misses. No wonder they're the top dogs in budget segment and almost every brand is playing catch-up to them. I believe that with ASX they want to challenge VSonic's dominance in the ~$100 category.


I think they have almost all categories from under $100. I only have vsonic gr06 and its not that good imho.


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> Agreed!
> Just few addenda.
> 
> KZ and CCA are pretty much the same, and the same good quality.
> ...



Agreed, I am ready to throw my old ZS10 Pro when the connector completely broken off and buy a new one... 

LoL, that way my wife will let me buy a new IEM since the old one broke... 

I think one of the evil genius plan of KZ


----------



## alamnp (Oct 29, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> I think they have almost all categories from under $100. I only have vsonic gr06 and its not that good imho.



agreed... I want to try ASX after you said 3D sounds, but... don't want to fork another $100, especially after CA16 and ZAX that I found very much to my liking.

Please let me know if you want to sell your used ASX for half price )))


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

voicemaster said:


> I think they have almost all categories from under $100. I only have vsonic gr06 and its not that good imho.



Yes completely agree. KZ is head and shoulders above everyone in sub-100 bucket. GR06 is past it's sell by date but VSonic is still wildly popular in China. Although their focus is now in the $100+ category but with VS7 and GR07 bass edition they're still dominant in the 100-150 category. One of the major drawback of Vsonic IEM is their longevity. GR series somehow is made with an expiry of 365 days. VS series is little better and the base model at~ $120 is a solid IEM.


----------



## astermk (Oct 29, 2020)

The mature tuning, massive soundstage, surprising amount of detail, accurate imaging and top notch instrument separation that the ZAX pump out for $52 (11.11 price before coupons) is frigging ridiculous. That is all. I'm sure there's better, but the ZAX offers such price: performance that it really raises the bar IMO.

I'm still not hearing any sibilance on mine. I'm not hearing the "thin vocals" either. They're a sweet spot between the muddiness of the CA16, which are a little too warm for me, and the CCA C12 for example, where I find the lower mids too recessed and thin. There's both clarity and weight. I think the soundstage has some height too. Height is insignificant compared to width and depth (both of which are amazing) but it's there, enough to not make the soundstage feel like a squeezed oval.

CCA C12 is going to be $25 after coupons for 11.11 too. Which is also a killer price on what is still a good IEM. It loses to the ZAX in terms of technicalities and soundstage and the tuning is more fatiguing but it's still value.


----------



## Asound

From what I read so far, I kind of want to have the ASX now. It sounds like it could be a worthy upgrade for me. Also I am getting more and more curios and just need to know how these really sound.

They already list the sale price, but I am not sure if I can wait that long, lol.
Can the shown coupons be added on top of the sale price?


----------



## Podster

Dani157 said:


> Totally. Only a few can even dare to go toe to toe with them in the budget segment. But they have absolutely no competition when it comes to inventory. With their mass friendly tuning, they have more hits than misses. No wonder they're the top dogs in budget segment and almost every brand is playing catch-up to them. I believe that with ASX they want to challenge VSonic's dominance in the ~$100 category.



Heck I've got some $250/$300 all BA iem's that "Can't touch this"! For me they exceed any idea I ever had of budget Chi-Fi  (Yes I realize many have fitment issues with them but if you can get that right) these can challenge at least for me some $500 BA offerings There I said it


----------



## PhonoPhi

Podster said:


> Heck I've got some $250/$300 all BA iem's that "Can't touch this"! For me they exceed any idea I ever had of budget Chi-Fi  (Yes I realize many have fitment issues with them but if you can get that right) these can challenge at least for me some $500 BA offerings There I said it


Well said!
Hope KZ will make BAX one day, taking the best of BA-10 and ASX (at least the shell shape)


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> Well said!
> Hope KZ will make BAX one day, taking the best of BA-10 and ASX (at least the shell shape)


For me, I wish KZ would get into dynamic drivers with unpronounceable-coatings, as well as use higher perfomance BAs. While keeping similar price points as they do today (ie: cheap). That should keep their competitors on their toes, pricing-wise.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 29, 2020)

Asound said:


> From what I read so far, I kind of want to have the ASX now. It sounds like it could be a worthy upgrade for me. Also I am getting more and more curios and just need to know how these really sound.
> 
> They already list the sale price, but I am not sure if I can wait that long, lol.
> Can the shown coupons be added on top of the sale price?


Nothing come close to the imaging and instrument separation from ASX in my collection. Bass hit hard, fast while still has weight to it too, nicely textured, detailed and controlled. There is no bass bleed whatsoever. Vocal is very intimate, has warmth which most KZ lacks but not overly warm that it becomes weird, detailed and very distinguish (very easy to hear the wording). Treble is detailed, faster decay on cymbals than ZAX, no sibilant for me at least.


----------



## rainbowneggs

i’ve just ordered my pair of ASX! i’m so stoked :> i wish i didn’t get my ZSX and got the ASX from the get go instead


----------



## voicemaster

rainbowneggs said:


> i’ve just ordered my pair of ASX! i’m so stoked :> i wish i didn’t get my ZSX and got the ASX from the get go instead


Well you never know if you will like the ASX or not, but if you like the sound of the ZSX, you will most likely like the ASX.


----------



## saldsald

PhonoPhi said:


> Why do they do it to people?
> (Graphene is a single layer sp2 carbon, whichever else is in those cables surely improve (increase) only their cost....)



Well you gotta try what you gotta try, just like all these chi-fi earphones. But my go-to cable is the TRN T2, it doesn't do any magic but it sounds so balanced and doesn't go wrong either. Paired it with the ASX and I think I am starting to like the sound.


----------



## saldsald

alamnp said:


> To tell you the truth in the universe of affordable Chifi, nothing can beat KZ at this moment.
> 
> In terms quality control and innovation, KZ blows pass through TRN, Blon, CCA, etc. hands down.
> 
> Most of other Chi Fi need to sound good with EQ, while KZ for most part, you plug your IEM, you already have a heavenly sound even for the cheapest one KZ ED9.



But I highly prefer the TRN V90s which have high quality metal casing and very detailed treble. I agree they don't sound too good without EQ but they sound better than my ZAX after EQ


----------



## saldsald

Pelicampe said:


> These will be my 1st 11.11 sales.
> Since I read everyone looking forward to them I thought there were some real big promos.
> In fact the prices are already broken all year round (at least on this kind of product?).
> 
> Thx Voicemaster for your return to ASX. you piqued my interest.



I posted here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/post-15945026

the ASX can be purchased at around USD73 now actually.


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> Well you gotta try what you gotta try, just like all these chi-fi earphones. But my go-to cable is the TRN T2, it doesn't do any magic but it sounds so balanced and doesn't go wrong either. Paired it with the ASX and I think I am starting to like the sound.



I experiment a bit with the EQ and I really have to set 4K and 8K to -4 to remove extremely uncomfortable ear piercing sound


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> Do you find the treble a bit ear piercing at time especially on vocal tracks? I probably would like this one if the treble is smoother. I find myself enjoying the sound with this pair on some instrumental tracks but really find too busy on others especially tracks with female vocal or cello. Any tricks you can share or it is all track dependent?


How long have you had your ASX? I've been listening to it for 4 days 8 hours+/ day and no more ear piercing treble now. Can you post a link to any songs that you find busy?

This song is quite busy but no ear piercing whatsoever now.


----------



## saldsald (Oct 30, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> How long have you had your ASX? I've been listening to it for 4 days 8 hours+/ day and no more ear piercing treble now. Can you post a link to any songs that you find busy?
> 
> This song is quite busy but no ear piercing whatsoever now.




I actually received mine on 14th Oct.  Plugged in to run-in for maybe over 100 hours already and I still hear the treble peak.

I always test my earphones with:


ArtistAlbumCommentAdele25stage is quite narrow and really ear piercingKatherine JenkinsHome Sweet HomedittoShane FilanLove AlwaysGood listening experienceThibault NoallyBach & CodittoSheppardBombs AwaydittoKlaus Paier, Asja ValcicSilk RoaddittoOphelie Gaillard & Pulcinella OrchestraVivaldi: I colori dellombraDepends on the day, sometimes I find the tracks busy sounding, especially after listening with my other IEMs which are "thinner sounding" and with a naturally wider stage.Ariana GrandeDangerous WomanGood listening experience

The ASX is actually quite a lot better than my initial impression and I think can sound bad or uncomfortable after listening with other earphones with V shape tuning. I think from my experience they just don't sound good on vocal tracks with thick female voices such as Adele and Katherine Jenkins (who sings with an opera voice).

Anyway, setting the 4K and 8K EQ really does the trick, maybe I just have treble sensitive ears.


----------



## voicemaster

Sounds good with Floor Jansen!


----------



## genck

voicemaster said:


> Sounds good with Floor Jansen!



I take your hand and raise you


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> I actually received mine on 14th Oct.  Plugged in to run-in for maybe over 100 hours already and I still hear the treble peak.
> 
> I always test my earphones with:
> 
> ...


I listened to both Adele and Katherine and none of them are piercing at all. Like really buttery smooth, I don't even know where the piercing coming from those (I don't think their voices are that piercing).


----------



## voicemaster

genck said:


> I take your hand and raise you



I can hear his voice clearly but I haven't any clue what he is growling about xD
btw it is sound so good with the ASX especially when the bass drop, very cool.


----------



## genck

voicemaster said:


> I can hear his voice clearly but I haven't any clue what he is growling about xD
> btw it is sound so good with the ASX especially when the bass drop, very cool.


I only mentioned that song because it involved heavy-ish stuff with female vocals and pianos, it is the closest thing that I listen to that was similar to the tracks you've posted before


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 30, 2020)

saldsald said:


> I actually received mine on 14th Oct.  Plugged in to run-in for maybe over 100 hours already and I still hear the treble peak.
> 
> I always test my earphones with:
> 
> ...


I am using short foam tips for TWS. I just tried it with AZLA xelastec and still no treble piercing. Listening to Vivaldi "Spring" quartet.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> I listened to both Adele and Katherine and none of them are piercing at all. Like really buttery smooth, I don't even know where the piercing coming from those (I don't think their voices are that piercing).



Take Adele's Hello as an example:

01:19-20 - to tell YOUUUUU
01:26-27 - NNNEEEEVER
01:43-44 - to tell YOUUUUU
02:58-02:59 - NNNEEEEVER
03:14-03:15 - to tell YOUUUUU (strongest treble peak)
03:53 - 03:56- the bass/mid-bass is way too overwhelming and everything is so congested - bass definition is also very poor (due to the mastering)


----------



## genck

The problem is that you're listening to Adele


----------



## voicemaster




----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> I am using short foam tips for TWS. I just tried it with AZLA xelastec and still no treble piercing. Listening to Vivaldi "Spring" quartet.



I have really narrow ear canal and only spinfit cp100 XS fit me with the ASX,


----------



## saldsald

genck said:


> The problem is that you're listening to Adele



Exactly, I never find the mastering good and that's is why I always always test with Adele. I have other earphones that can make her voice sounds much more soothing.


----------



## genck

saldsald said:


> Exactly, I never find the mastering good and that's is why I always always test with Adele. I have other earphones that can make her voice sounds much more soothing.


Yeah, I've heard that before. (not being sarcastic)
edit: sometimes I hate english, I'm agreeing with you, by the way.


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> Take Adele's Hello as an example:
> 
> 01:19-20 - to tell YOUUUUU
> 01:26-27 - NNNEEEEVER
> ...


Nope still not piercing.


----------



## voicemaster

Try this for ear piercing voice (even this still not piercing).


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 30, 2020)

saldsald said:


> I have really narrow ear canal and only spinfit cp100 XS fit me with the ASX,


Oh no freaking wonder. Spinfit makes everything piercing xD. I can't use spinfit eventho it fit great. That twisted front makes everything sounds thin for me.


----------



## genck

voicemaster said:


> Try this for ear piercing voice (even this still not piercing).



I like this


----------



## voicemaster

Oldies songs have better mastering than newer one. Bee Gees, Dave Matthews, Queen, Jamiroquai, etc etc


----------



## genck

voicemaster said:


> Oldies songs have better mastering than newer one. Bee Gees, Dave Matthews, Queen, Jamiroquai, etc etc



As long as we're Stayin' Alive


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> Oh no freaking wonder. Spinfit makes everything piercing xD. I can't use spinfit eventho it fit great. That twisted front makes everything sounds thin for me.



oh right, tried JVC spiral dot and it's better now for sure. I never really do eartip rolling or maybe I should just not use spinfit anymore.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> Oldies songs have better mastering than newer one. Bee Gees, Dave Matthews, Queen, Jamiroquai, etc etc



I like those from bandcamp and enjoy their 24bit recording and mastering.


----------



## genck (Oct 30, 2020)

saldsald said:


> oh right, tried JVC spiral dot and it's better now for sure. I never really do eartip rolling or maybe I should just not use spinfit anymore.


different tips work for different ears, who knew. you'd think all humans had the same ears and canals(do they? )


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> oh right, tried JVC spiral dot and it's better now for sure. I never really do eartip rolling or maybe I should just not use spinfit anymore.


I have another ASX coming so I can test if there is variant. So far, the only KZ that sounds different was the ZSN (I have purple and black).


----------



## saldsald

genck said:


> different tips work for different ears, who knew. you'd think all humans had the same ears and canals(do they? )



Yea but unfortunately I need to look for XS eartips always and not all makers make such size such as AZAL. I bought a few and they are painful to use (and expensive).


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> Yea but unfortunately I need to look for XS eartips always and not all makers make such size such as AZAL. I bought a few and they are painful to use (and expensive).


I have those AZLA and I could only fit the S size. Tried M and SS and both don't seal well in my ears.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> I have another ASX coming so I can test if there is variant. So far, the only KZ that sounds different was the ZSN (I have purple and black).



That's pretty hardcore to get two pairs just to compare. Please try the TRN V90s I highly recommend it (after EQ).


----------



## genck

saldsald said:


> Yea but unfortunately I need to look for XS eartips always and not all makers make such size such as AZAL. I bought a few and they are painful to use (and expensive).


Do you mean AZLA? if AZLA XS doesn't doesn't fit then go CIEM


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> That's pretty hardcore to get two pairs just to compare. Please try the TRN V90s I highly recommend it (after EQ).


Almost always buy a backup for the pair I like.


----------



## genck

voicemaster said:


> Almost always buy a backup for the pair I like.


same


----------



## saldsald

genck said:


> Do you mean AZLA? if AZLA XS doesn't doesn't fit then go CIEM



Yes, AZLA. I think some tips are still alright just these ASX are too big and there is no room for adjustment.


----------



## genck

saldsald said:


> Yes, AZLA. I think some tips are still alright just these ASX are too big and there is no room for adjustment.


Are you trying to say they slip off? Define "big"


----------



## saldsald (Oct 30, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Almost always buy a backup for the pair I like.


repeated deleted


----------



## saldsald

genck said:


> Are you trying to say they slip off? Define "big"


hmmm... you know the ASX are like CIEM for me. They cover and seal my ears almost perfectly. I can't rotate them at all they just fit into the ear concha (word I just learnt) and if I pull them out just slightly they will slip off. So if the eartips are just slightly too big the ASX will be pushed out and be uncomfortable to wear.

The spiral dots are definitely much better for me I just worry them coming off.


----------



## Tonymac136

voicemaster said:


> Oldies songs have better mastering than newer one. Bee Gees, Dave Matthews, Queen, Jamiroquai, etc etc



Sadly Spotify and even Tidal insist on giving us remastered versions. Sir George Martin clearly knew nothing...


----------



## theguy69

Just got my kz edx. I must say, compared to my soundmagic e10c(which is like 10 years old?) It's not that much better. Somehow the soundmagic has better seperation and it's definitely less peakier as well. Maybe it's because I'm using my phone as a source but I don't know why that would make a difference with the low impedance. Still can't complain for the price and it's very comfortable in the ear. I'll definitely try to keep my next buy in a much higher price range.


----------



## unifutomaki

Tonymac136 said:


> Sadly Spotify and even Tidal insist on giving us remastered versions. Sir George Martin clearly knew nothing...



Red Book for the win


----------



## unifutomaki

theguy69 said:


> Just got my kz edx. I must say, compared to my soundmagic e10c(which is like 10 years old?) It's not that much better.



The E10C was first available on Amazon in 2016 and had an MSRP of 50 USD when it came out. The EDX is 5 USD. What do you want lol


----------



## PhonoPhi

unifutomaki said:


> The E10C was first available on Amazon in 2016 and had an MSRP of 50 USD when it came out. The EDX is 5 USD. What do you want lol


KZ is always expected to be 10 times better in their quality-to-price ratio, mere 3-5 times do not do any more, higher standards


----------



## tgx78

Picture Friday 📸  with my favorite KZ.


----------



## sas69

Hi guys, the upcoming 11.11 sale is very tempting, I was considering getting a new set of iems and I was torn between ZAX and LZ A7 ?
Can anybody here compare them or do someone have them both?
Any help will be much appreciated, thanks!


----------



## astermk

sas69 said:


> Hi guys, the upcoming 11.11 sale is very tempting, I was considering getting a new set of iems and I was torn between ZAX and LZ A7 ?
> Can anybody here compare them or do someone have them both?
> Any help will be much appreciated, thanks!


One of these is 6x more expensive than the other. I don't understand the comparison.


----------



## sas69

astermk said:


> One of these is 6x more expensive than the other. I don't understand the comparison.



I know, I know, but if the sound quality, instrument separation, soundstage etc. is like 10% better on LZ A7, it will be very hard to justify the difference in the price.


----------



## tgx78 (Oct 30, 2020)

I have both. LZ A7 is about 10% better


----------



## sas69

tgx78 said:


> I have both. LZ A7 is about 10% better



So it will be best to stick with ZAX then?
I'm not a musician I listen to music all day long and I feel it is time to replace my ZS5 V1 I don't mind spending a little bit extra if it worth it.


----------



## Tonymac136

A £250 headphone will never be 5x as good as a £50 one which will never be 5x as good as a £10 one. Diminishing returns and all that. For the money the ZAX is on a par with the Tin T2 Plus and the LZ A6 mini. All 3 are very good and it's as much personal preference as "which one is best".


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Heck I've got some $250/$300 all BA iem's that "Can't touch this"! For me they exceed any idea I ever had of budget Chi-Fi  (Yes I realize many have fitment issues with them but if you can get that right) these can challenge at least for me some $500 BA offerings There I said it


Absolutely! BA10 is my favourite KZ.


----------



## baskingshark

sas69 said:


> I know, I know, but if the sound quality, instrument separation, soundstage etc. is like 10% better on LZ A7, it will be very hard to justify the difference in the price.



The LZ A7 has other intangibles, such as 10 tuning configurations from V shaped to neutralish (it has a tuning switch + 5 tuning nozzles), so that is kind of getting more than 1 IEM with a purchase, so it is more versatile for different music genres and sonic preferences.
In addition, some other things cannot be gleaned from graphs, such as the LZ A7 having excellent timbre for a hybrid, definitely was a pleasant surprise. Imaging on the LZ A7 is also one of the best I have heard in an IEM.

I haven't heard the ZAX but I have had about 10 multi driver KZs/CCAs in the past. The multi driver KZs/CCAs are good in technicalities, but I've never been convinced by their timbre for woodwinds/brass instruments except for their single DD types. And as the others said, diminishing returns exist in this hobby, so there's marginal improvements the higher up you go.


----------



## ZAXon 7

Nimweth said:


> Absolutely! BA10 is my favourite KZ.


you have both, is BA10 better than ZAX?


----------



## genck

ZAXon 7 said:


> you have both, is BA10 better than ZAX?


Stop with this "better" crap. Different IEM's fulfill different needs, as you'll find out.


----------



## Nimweth

ZAXon 7 said:


> you have both, is BA10 better than ZAX?


That depends on your preferences, what kind of profile you prefer, V-shaped, balanced, basshead, etc., your favourite genres and so on. The BA10 is an unusual shape and some find it uncomfortable. It certainly improves with some extra power when it comes alive, rather in the manner of the TRI i3. It has an almost unique signature courtesy of the 29689 and 31005 mid BAs (also used in the ZS7). Bass is unusually powerful for a BA and the treble is free of nasty peaks. ZAX is possibly KZ's finest hybrid so far with a moderate V shape, good mid timbre and excellent detail retrieval. If you enjoy classical music you may prefer the BA10 but the ZAX should suit for more popular genres. YMMV of course!


----------



## GoLDii3

KZ nailed it so hard with the EDX. They sound so good for being literally 5 bucks


----------



## PhonoPhi

GoLDii3 said:


> KZ nailed it so hard with the EDX. They sound so good for being literally 5 bucks


Yep, good sound, nice shells with a comfortable fit and a good choice of colours, a decent interchangeable cable (good old paragraph B) - a combination that is hard to beat for 5-7 bucks


----------



## Keputs

Meanwhile, while amusedly reading all this good-better-best arguments, I'm just enjoying this new Ariana Grande album on some real old-school ZST Colorful and still fully satisfied even if I have some of the most recent models. KZ kills it no matter what your ears want to hear. Too much technicalities will ruin the enjoyment.


----------



## alamnp

saldsald said:


> But I highly prefer the TRN V90s which have high quality metal casing and very detailed treble. I agree they don't sound too good without EQ but they sound better than my ZAX after EQ



mine kind of defective, after unboxing the right monitor fading in/out and completely shut of after 30 mins. I waited the whole day left it out in the open, seems like moisture problem again with TRN, I plugged it to my MP3 player and let it play for 8 hours straight... and finally, it sounds much much better, I have to update my review... 

But between KZ and TRN, I prefer KZ, TRN has major quality control issues.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Oh no freaking wonder. Spinfit makes everything piercing xD. I can't use spinfit eventho it fit great. That twisted front makes everything sounds thin for me.



it makes my CCA CA16 shines...


----------



## alamnp

saldsald said:


> That's pretty hardcore to get two pairs just to compare. Please try the TRN V90s I highly recommend it (after EQ).





sas69 said:


> Hi guys, the upcoming 11.11 sale is very tempting, I was considering getting a new set of iems and I was torn between ZAX and LZ A7 ?
> Can anybody here compare them or do someone have them both?
> Any help will be much appreciated, thanks!



if you have money to burn definitely LZ A7 a lot of filters... I like LZ, if you only have $60 get ZAX, except you will only have one sound profile


----------



## Slater

.


Slater said:


> Got the clear ones (which turned out to be smoked, not actually clear), carefully took them apart, painted the inside with cats eye UV paint, and put back together with clear UV epoxy.
> 
> They don’t look as good in photos. You really have to see them in person to see the cats eye effect. It’s the same effect as a Tigers Eye gemstone. Really cool.
> 
> ...




BTW, my “crystal clear” KZ EDX arrived today.

As I suspected above, it IS different than the smoke transparent one.

The smoke transparent one has a silver X, and is lightly tinted grey. It’s still transparent, but it is NOT completely crystal clear like glass.

The “crystal clear” one IS completely clear (like glass), and has a gold X.

Other than that, they are the same. Same sound, same tips, same cable, etc.

Here’s side by side photos of both transparent models, where the difference is clearly evident.


----------



## alamnp

nice... i might get several and paint them over...


----------



## astermk

EDX become a $3 IEM for 11.11 considering the $3 off coupons. Worth getting one for poops and giggles.


----------



## voicemaster

How does the EDX compare to Blon BL03?


----------



## Tonymac136

voicemaster said:


> How does the EDX compare to Blon BL03?



Much easier to drive. Livelier sound. Timbre nowhere near as good (especially in the frequency of a contralto or tenor vocal - there's a patch where the timbre is well off). Fit is miles better. Soundstage is better. To be fair it's a quarter the price and it sounds it. It compares very very well to the KZ ED9, Sony MH750/5, that kind of thing.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 30, 2020)

Some 2 early impressions of the KZ ASX from Otto Motor (Jurgen Kraus) from Audioreviews:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4745883588785248/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4746472788726328/


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> Some 2 early impressions of the KZ ASX from Otto Motor (Jurgen Kraus) from Audioreviews:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4745883588785248/
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4746472788726328/


Is Otto listening to the curves?


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> Is Otto listening to the curves?


He based what he listen by looking at the curve. I only agree on one thing he said about cymbals decay rather fast, the others are opposite from what I heard.
Here we go Samsung GBeans case again lol.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> Some 2 early impressions of the KZ ASX from Otto Motor (Jurgen Kraus) from Audioreviews:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4745883588785248/
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4746472788726328/



now this short impressions are a rather opposite to what voicemaster said about his ASX.. and so far his (voicemaster) impressions on the ZAX are lining up to most other ZAX user here, well at least from what i conclude.. 

so i think it's better to wait for more user data/report.


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> now this short impressions are a rather opposite to what voicemaster said about his ASX.. and so far his (voicemaster) impressions on the ZAX are lining up to most other ZAX user here, well at least from what i conclude..
> 
> so i think it's better to wait for more user data/report.


I am actually kinda hesitant to recommend the ASX, not because it sounds bad, but this IEM will create some controversies.


----------



## rainbowneggs

so earlier on, while i was lurking on aliexpress, i was checking out the prices of ZAX and accidentally fat fingered and ended up ordering it. was contemplating canceling the order, since i just got my ZSX not long ago, but so many people have been telling me to get the ZAX and maybe sell the ZSX, so i’m just gonna get it hahaha


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 30, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> I am actually kinda hesitant to recommend the ASX, not because it sounds bad, but this IEM will create some controversies.



Well the ASX is not a budget KZ, and is their most pricey IEM release to date. I'd agree it be a more risky blind buy than some of their $30ish USD KZs, which is their usual comfort zone for KZ sales.

I know graphs don't tell the full story, notwithstanding the treble roll off, I'm quite wary of the 15ish dB gain from lower mids to upper mids on the ASX graph, do you find the upper mids region hot?

FWIW, there was another similarly scary 15ish dB gain for graph of the TRN BA8 (Graph below courtesy of KopiOKaya (IEC711 compliant coupler). 8 - 9 kHZ area is probably a resonance peak.)
On actual listening to the TRN BA8, it actually wasn't as bad sounding as the graph. It looked like some Hawaiian bad volcano that was gonna explode. I really thought it was gonna be some screaming Himalayian Mountain Banshee, it was hot and fatiguing yeah, but still not as bad sounding as some other TRNs with a more milder looking graph eg TRN VX. So sometimes graphs are not the be all and end all.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


>



if you like wagakki maybe you would like Kagrra,



btw, wagakki's older recordings are quite average, just a lot of instruments playing together, and has improved a lot over the years. You may also take a listen to Omura (machiya) 's band


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> if you like wagakki maybe you would like Kagrra,
> 
> 
> 
> btw, wagakki's older recordings are quite average, just a lot of instruments playing together, and has improved a lot over the years. You may also take a listen to Omura (machiya) 's band



Yes, I think starting 2018 the recording sound really good. I think they changed their sound engineer or something I forgot.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


>




wow... thanks for this... this is a test for imaging and soundstage... this song is so good with CA16


----------



## alamnp

try this track to check if your IEM has good imaging/soundstage


----------



## Wgibson

So the ASX has the smaller nozzle like the CA16? Deal breaker for me if so...

I am eyeing the AS16 for around 65 bucks, if I find a store with a $6 off $65 coupon and the math works out to 50 something all in, I'll probably grab it.

I have the C16 and with inverted medium starline tips that thing sticks in my ears like glue and isolates extremely well, AS16 looks like the same shape but with a better build, metal nozzle.

I am a bit treble sensitive, but if its done right I do enjoy it (love the ZAX, ZSX is pushing it for me.)


----------



## saldsald

Slater said:


> .
> 
> 
> BTW, my “crystal clear” KZ EDX arrived today.
> ...


I am interested in getting the clear one also. I know it is not fair to compare to something like the tin T4, but how do these compare to some pricier IEMs?


----------



## Wgibson

saldsald said:


> I am interested in getting the clear one also. I know it is not fair to compare to something like the tin T4, but how do these compare to some pricier IEMs?



Deep sub bass, not super muddy but not super clear mid bass, very coherent overall, mids/vocals sound pretty natural, should cost about $20 IMO and for <$10 I don't think you can touch it, better than ZS3e for example. It's on par with LZ Z05a, maybe not quite that good on the top end. If you're on the fence, don't be.


----------



## trumpethead (Oct 31, 2020)

Slater said:


> .
> 
> 
> BTW, my “crystal clear” KZ EDX arrived today.
> ...



I like these a lot. Changed tips to some ol school radio shack tips and it warned them up a bit and took out the shoutiness.. More comfortable  and better seal as well.. Already got white, and black.. Smoke transparent should be here today... Green and another black on the way... Can't go wrong for 7 bucks or less.....


----------



## the Ortherion

Has anyone compared the EDX to the Z1 TWS? The dynamic driver and tuning is the same?


----------



## Slater

the Ortherion said:


> Has anyone compared the EDX to the Z1 TWS? The dynamic driver and tuning is the same?



Is that the one with the XUN driver?

The EDX just has a regular 10mm dynamic driver. No XUN


----------



## Tonymac136

the Ortherion said:


> Has anyone compared the EDX to the Z1 TWS? The dynamic driver and tuning is the same?



Nothing at all like it, sadly. I'd love to play with a wired version of the Z1.


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> Nothing at all like it, sadly. I'd love to play with a wired version of the Z1.



It seems most people really like the sound of the Z1 (ie the XUN dynamic driver).

Maybe I need to pick up a set on 11.11? It shouldn’t be too hard to convert it to wired. Looks like the exact same shell as the CA16.

The question is if it’s worth $30, when there’s plenty of competition at around that price, including the new Blon 03 upgrade coming out.


----------



## Tonymac136

Slater said:


> It seems most people really like the sound of the Z1 (ie the XUN dynamic driver).
> 
> Maybe I need to pick up a set on 11.11? It shouldn’t be too hard to convert it to wired. Looks like the exact same shell as the CA16.
> 
> The question is if it’s worth $30, when there’s plenty of competition at around that price, including the new Blon 03 upgrade coming out.



If mine ever give up the ghost electrically (battery or that GODAWFUL chipset they use) I'm gonna give it a go. I own a soldering iron and solder. They're both still neatly wrapped up. I've not actually soldered anything since my school electronics club circa 1995 so I'm unwilling to tear down a working unit. They're competitive with the likes of the Blon 03 and TRN V90 as a TWS. I can't imagine that ripping the guts out and wiring them will make them worse?


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> I can't imagine that ripping the guts out and wiring them will make them worse?



No no, I meant would it be worth it to buy a brand new working set and immediately rip the guts out and convert them to wired.

Of course if I already owned a set and the Bluetooth or battery portion died, I would convert them to wired faster than you can say XUN


----------



## Tonymac136

Slater said:


> No no, I meant would it be worth it to buy a brand new working set and immediately rip the guts out and convert them to wired.
> 
> Of course if I already owned a set and the Bluetooth or battery portion died, I would convert them to wired faster than you can say XUN



They're similarly tuned to but a bit more v shaped than the Blon 03. They don't have the upper bass wrongness that can afflict the 03. Sub bass is a bit more prominent than the 03 but doesn't reach quite as deep. Timbre is much the same (slightly on the lush side). As I said, just on pure sound they're as good as the 03 or V90. Depends how much you want yet another pair of IEMs


----------



## voicemaster

Wgibson said:


> So the ASX has the smaller nozzle like the CA16? Deal breaker for me if so...
> 
> I am eyeing the AS16 for around 65 bucks, if I find a store with a $6 off $65 coupon and the math works out to 50 something all in, I'll probably grab it.
> 
> ...


Why the smaller nozzle a deal breaker? I can put any old tips with no problem and since the nozzle is smaller, I can insert it deeper than any other KZ I've owned.


----------



## lgcubana

voicemaster said:


> Why the smaller nozzle a deal breaker? I can put any old tips with no problem and since the nozzle is smaller, I can insert it deeper than any other KZ I've owned.


All of my foam tips follow the standard 4.5mm - 6mm/7mm inner diameter.

On the CCA CA16, I can easily flick them off.


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> Depends how much you want yet another pair of IEMs



Like a hole in the head haha

Seriously though, thanks for the comparison


----------



## Tonymac136

Slater said:


> Like a hole in the head haha
> 
> Seriously though, thanks for the comparison



Heh, I know that feeling. I donate a pair to a friend and get an email from China - any chance you could review these 2 pairs of IEMs?

At this rate 2021 is going to be the year where IEMs become sentient and start ordering themselves and delivering themselves to my door.


----------



## voicemaster

I forgot h


lgcubana said:


> All of my foam tips follow the standard 4.5mm - 6mm/7mm inner diameter.
> 
> On the CCA CA16, I can easily flick them off.


I've used regular (newbee) foam tips on mine and it didn't easily get detached even when I insert it quite deeply into my ears. The lips on the nozzle is quite deep and it helps holding the tips.


----------



## the Ortherion

Tonymac136 said:


> Nothing at all like it, sadly. I'd love to play with a wired version of the Z1.



The Z1 are nice but the hiss/electrical noise are a dealbreaker to me. Will definitely convert them to wired at some point. 

The phonograph reviews have a similar frequency response graph between the z1 and the EDX. 

Conseidering it's low price ill definitely will be buying some EDX in the upcoming 11.11 sale.


----------



## Tonymac136

the Ortherion said:


> The Z1 are nice but the hiss/electrical noise are a dealbreaker to me. Will definitely convert them to wired at some point.
> 
> The phonograph reviews have a similar frequency response graph between the z1 and the EDX.
> 
> Conseidering it's low price ill definitely will be buying some EDX in the upcoming 11.11 sale.



I was just about to post something trite like "ah but FR graphs don't tell the whole story" when I decided on taking a different course of action.

So I just (while listening on my Z1) took the liberty of fitting this £5 earphone with a £6 cable (TRN T2, not that I expect it makes a whole lot of difference) and £10 eartips (Xelastec). Makes it... Totally different. Leagues ahead of the Sony MH755 IMO. A touch bass heavy in its presentation and some micro details are missing compared to the Z1, but it's a really lively energetic little thing and the timbre sounds much closer to what I would like now. I've not done any comparitive with the Blon 03 yet but it might not be all that far off.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 31, 2020)

Tonymac136 said:


> I was just about to post something trite like "ah but FR graphs don't tell the whole story" when I decided on taking a different course of action.
> 
> So I just (while listening on my Z1) took the liberty of fitting this £5 earphone with a £6 cable (TRN T2, not that I expect it makes a whole lot of difference) and £10 eartips (Xelastec). Makes it... Totally different. Leagues ahead of the Sony MH755 IMO. A touch bass heavy in its presentation and some micro details are missing compared to the Z1, but it's a really lively energetic little thing and the timbre sounds much closer to what I would like now. I've not done any comparitive with the Blon 03 yet but it might not be all that far off.


Yep, I fitted mine with T2 right out of the box, chuckling a bit about the price difference - feels/sounds very good; not so close to BL-03 to my ears, but at about 4 times lower price perfectly fine


----------



## Wgibson

voicemaster said:


> Why the smaller nozzle a deal breaker? I can put any old tips with no problem and since the nozzle is smaller, I can insert it deeper than any other KZ I've owned.



Maybe the shape of my ears, but I can't get a good seal with that nozzle. Not so much the smaller size (sure it is annoying when tips come off) but the shorter length is the big issue for me.


----------



## voicemaster

For me its the opposite, I can insert it deeper into my ear canal. The ZAX/ZSX, I can't.


----------



## alamnp

Wgibson said:


> Maybe the shape of my ears, but I can't get a good seal with that nozzle. Not so much the smaller size (sure it is annoying when tips come off) but the shorter length is the big issue for me.



maybe you can use spinfit CP800


----------



## alamnp

has anybody tried KZ ZSX Aptx HD CSR8675???

how was it compared to TRN BT20s Pro?


----------



## Asound (Oct 31, 2020)

I decided to not wait for the 11.11 sale and ordered the ASX. Shipping alone will take a month already. Adding two weeks to that? Nah...

I picked the silver colour, cause of the somewhat clear case. Being able to see a bit of the internals is pretty nice.

Now I will probably need to improve on my mobile source 
Alltough the dac I currently use, Hidizs Sonata HD II, is better than the sound solution of my smartphone. Plugging the AS10 into my home setup gives me even more. So if there is some potential left. Surely the ASX will benefit from a better source even more.


----------



## Jonatan

Kz asf or zax?


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 1, 2020)

There's 2 formal reviews for the KZ ASX that just released!

1) https://www.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASX - it in German, but just google translate, from CHIFI Ear. Interestingly he says the KZ ASX and ASF only differ marginally here.

2) https://www.audioreviews.org/kz-asx-review-jk/ - formal review after the first impressions from Otto Motor yesterday.


And this is amazing, you gotta watch this guy burn in his KZ ZSN Pro:




https://www.facebook.com/groups/2356925341002367/permalink/4023687500992801/


----------



## BubisUK

My ASX arrived in UK today, so I should get them next week  All of these mixed reviews are not doing any good, will see how it goes


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> There's 2 formal reviews for the KZ ASX that just released!
> 
> 1) https://www.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASX - it in German, but just google translate, from CHIFI Ear. Interestingly he says the KZ ASX and ASF only differ marginally here.
> 
> ...



i saw that earlier. unless that thing was broken already, i personally not a fan of destroying thing that can still be of use. better to give it away to other people... but hey, that's just my opinion


----------



## BubisUK

chinmie said:


> i saw that earlier. unless that thing was broken already, i personally not a fan of destroying thing that can still be of use. better to give it away to other people... but hey, that's just my opinion


But that was stupidly entertaining video  As a person who never saw any changes after "burning" the headphones I find this a fine satire


----------



## unifutomaki

BubisUK said:


> But that was stupidly entertaining video  As a person who never saw any changes after "burning" the headphones I find this a fine satire



As someone who is decidedly not a fan of the ZSN Pro, I'd rather put it to the purpose of entertainment rather than give someone else the gift of thin, harsh sound 😂


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> As someone who is decidedly not a fan of the ZSN Pro, I'd rather put it to the purpose of entertainment rather than give someone else the gift of thin, harsh sound 😂



It might have made a good hearing aid when donated to charity!


----------



## RCracer777

baskingshark said:


> And this is amazing, you gotta watch this guy burn in his KZ ZSN Pro:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If somebody did that to my ZSN Pro X I'd punch his lights out. Unpopular of an opinion as it might be I do really enjoy the ZSN Pro X. It's up my alley and fixed for me what I found lacking in the ZSN Pro. It's not perfect or my favorite IEM, that is still the ZAX, but I enjoy them more than my FiiO FH1s which are more than triple the price.

The ZSN Pro is the first IEM I've ever owned (so a little bit of sentiment there) and reliable backup when I don't want to bring my better IEM's to a concert or festival. If it breaks, at least I didn't ruin something like a ZAX and they are cheap to replace.

That and this is just wasteful, could have given it to somebody they hate. Especially if it didn't work


----------



## unifutomaki

I would have been interested to know if the thing still worked afterwards. He didn't leave it exposed to fire for all that long (and sensibly as well, since burning plastic is... not pleasant). Would have been a testimonial to KZ reliability/durability if so, in stark contrast to their main competitor that begins with T and ends with RN


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 1, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> I would have been interested to know if the thing still worked afterwards. He didn't leave it exposed to fire for all that long (and sensibly as well, since burning plastic is... not pleasant). Would have been a testimonial to KZ reliability/durability if so, in stark contrast to their main competitor that begins with T and ends with RN



Imagine if there were beryllium drivers inside and the guy burnt it with a flame. It would have released some toxic crap man!

Speaking about TRN, someone should burn the $15000 USD TRN golden ears joke Halloween prank IEM. See if it melts into real gold, or is just gold plated. But yeah I've been a bit wary of TRN's QC (my TRN IM2, TRN BT20, TRN BT20S are all dead after a few months of use). For all we know the TRN golden ears may come in the mail with one side dead or out of phase hahaha. So far I gotta say my KZs are amazingly sturdy, I've put them in pockets, at the bottom of bags without cases, in the car under hot sun and I've not had a KZ die on me so far.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Imagine if there were beryllium drivers inside and the guy burnt it with a flame. It would have released some toxic crap man!
> 
> Speaking about TRN, someone should burn the $15000 USD TRN golden ears joke Halloween prank IEM. See if it melts into real gold, or is just gold plated. But yeah I've been a bit wary of TRN's QC (my TRN IM2, TRN BT20, TRN BT20S are all dead after a few months of use). For all we know the TRN golden ears may come in the mail with one side dead or out of phase hahaha. So far I gotta say my KZs are amazingly sturdy, I've put them in pockets, at the bottom of bags without cases, in the car under hot sun and I've not had a KZ die on me so far.


I dont think there is a danger even if it is beryllium inside it.


----------



## alamnp

unifutomaki said:


> I would have been interested to know if the thing still worked afterwards. He didn't leave it exposed to fire for all that long (and sensibly as well, since burning plastic is... not pleasant). Would have been a testimonial to KZ reliability/durability if so, in stark contrast to their main competitor that begins with T and ends with RN



I agreed... I happened to be one of that victims... I am staying away, far far away... from T and you know what RN


----------



## Viber

saldsald said:


> Take Adele's Hello as an example:
> 
> 01:19-20 - to tell YOUUUUU
> 01:26-27 - NNNEEEEVER
> ...



My love for headphones made me hate Adele lol
I don't know why, but her songs always make me suffer with headphones.

It made me think she as really overrated compared to female singers such as Lisa Gerrard and Sarah McLachlan.


----------



## Pelicampe

baskingshark said:


> There's 2 formal reviews for the KZ ASX that just released!
> 
> 1) https://www.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASX - it in German, but just google translate, from CHIFI Ear. Interestingly he says the KZ ASX and ASF only differ marginally here.
> 
> 2) https://www.audioreviews.org/kz-asx-review-jk/ - formal review after the first impressions from Otto Motor yesterday.



Note really  greats reviews... 

The gap between ASF and ASX seen to be thin ! Plus the poor tuning.


----------



## alamnp

Pelicampe said:


> Note really  greats reviews...
> 
> The gap between ASF and ASX seen to be thin ! Plus the poor tuning.



I think based on the review ASX is not for everyone.


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 1, 2020)

Too bad I already ordered these (well the ASF to be exact). I do need to wait to hear them myself though before I have an opinion.

It doesn't make sense to me that an experienced company would release a flagship product that sounds absolutely horrible.
Don't they have engineers test these, and listen to them, and evaluate them, and then tweak them until they get just what they want?
It's hard to picture them saying, "Holy cow.....this sounds awful.......well let's go ahead and release it anyway.", but I have no idea what goes on at these companies.

At this point I'm glad I at least ordered the lower-priced one, paid $51 which is still more than enough to piss me off if they are not at least average.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Nothing come close to the imaging and instrument separation from ASX in my collection. Bass hit hard, fast while still has weight to it too, nicely textured, detailed and controlled. There is no bass bleed whatsoever. Vocal is very intimate, has warmth which most KZ lacks but not overly warm that it becomes weird, detailed and very distinguish (very easy to hear the wording). Treble is detailed, faster decay on cymbals than ZAX, no sibilant for me at least.


Reviews are so funny........you seem to love the ASX and have almost opposite observations from the 2 reviews that were just linked to in an earlier post.
Maybe a law should be passed requiring every review to be done with the same 10 songs.


----------



## saldsald (Nov 1, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> Reviews are so funny........you seem to love the ASX and have almost opposite observations from the 2 reviews that were just linked to in an earlier post.
> Maybe a law should be passed requiring every review to be done with the same 10 songs.



I changed the eartips and the sound is completely different in a good way. The ASX is not bad at all just not for everyone. You really need to adjust the fit to make it sounds good.

Edit: These ASX are actually pretty good. I actually had the same listening experience as these reviews due to using wrong eartips.


----------



## saldsald

Viber said:


> My love for headphones made me hate Adele lol
> I don't know why, but her songs always make me suffer with headphones.
> 
> It made me think she as really overrated compared to female singers such as Lisa Gerrard and Sarah McLachlan.



That is very true and if I find Adele not sounding annoying during my new earphone sound test, I consider that pair good for vocal listening.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 1, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> Reviews are so funny........you seem to love the ASX and have almost opposite observations from the 2 reviews that were just linked to in an earlier post.
> Maybe a law should be passed requiring every review to be done with the same 10 songs.



This hobby is very subjective though. Different strokes for different folks as they say. Ya i think the music genre/track we use is quite important, some IEMs sound good only on certain genres and may fall flat with other genres, whereas some IEMs seem to be "universal".

Even using the same song track, we all have different hearing health, use different sources/tips, even cables, we play at different volumes (Fletcher Munson curve), and have difference preferences. Good thing is this hobby has become relatively cheaper the past 2 - 3 years with the flood of CHIFI releases, so hopefully there's an ideal and obtainable IEM for everyone.

What might be good is to follow some headfiers or reviewers who u know have similar sonic preferences to you.


----------



## alamnp

MacAttack7 said:


> Too bad I already ordered these (well the ASF to be exact). I do need to wait to hear them myself though before I have an opinion.
> 
> It doesn't make sense to me that an experienced company would release a flagship product that sounds absolutely horrible.
> Don't they have engineers test these, and listen to them, and evaluate them, and then tweak them until they get just what they want?
> ...



oh trust me, you are better off with KZ, I ordered TRN... far from my expectation


----------



## alamnp

MacAttack7 said:


> Reviews are so funny........you seem to love the ASX and have almost opposite observations from the 2 reviews that were just linked to in an earlier post.
> Maybe a law should be passed requiring every review to be done with the same 10 songs.



agreed, for example TRN V90S good for hip hop, HORRIBLE for orchestra or busy musics... certain music will be nice to hear some are not... that's why sometimes, you buy an expensive all rounder IEM instead several cheap ones...


----------



## saldsald

Wgibson said:


> Deep sub bass, not super muddy but not super clear mid bass, very coherent overall, mids/vocals sound pretty natural, should cost about $20 IMO and for <$10 I don't think you can touch it, better than ZS3e for example. It's on par with LZ Z05a, maybe not quite that good on the top end. If you're on the fence, don't be.



Received already today, really surprised by how good they actually sound, fatigue free with enough detail, slightly bright for my liking (or just lack a bit of mids). Bass definition can be higher too but can't ask for more. The packaging plus the shipping wonder how they managed to keep these at such low price.


----------



## Jonatan

What eartips do you use?


----------



## Jonatan

saldsald said:


> I changed the eartips and the sound is completely different in a good way. The ASX is not bad at all just not for everyone. You really need to adjust the fit to make it sounds good.
> 
> Edit: These ASX are actually pretty good. I actually had the same listening experience as these reviews due to using wrong eartips.



What eartips do you ise with the asx?


----------



## saldsald

Jonatan said:


> What eartips do you ise with the asx?



JVC spiral dot


----------



## twgtwg

I use azla's exlastec tips which deliver transparent highs and wide/deep sound field.  Not bad at all!😂


----------



## IEMmasterRace

Anyone bought the KZ ASF? Could not get even a single review about that iem in the internet


----------



## baskingshark

IEMmasterRace said:


> Anyone bought the KZ ASF? Could not get even a single review about that iem in the internet



https://www.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASF

Review by CHIFI EAR. It is in German, just google translate. He did a review for the ASX too (link in previous pages), and he thinks the ASF and ASX don't differ much.


----------



## Jonatan

IEMmasterRace said:


> Anyone bought the KZ ASF? Could not get even a single review about that iem in the internet



i biught them they should come in about a week or so i will write my impressions here
there isnt much of reviews couse they just came out

also i have a question to anyone already haviing the asf/x what eatips do you use/why do you find the the best


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 2, 2020)

Jonatan said:


> i biught them they should come in about a week or so i will write my impressions here
> there isnt much of reviews couse they just came out
> 
> also i have a question to anyone already haviing the asf/x what eatips do you use/why do you find the the best


I am using this foam tips
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_iqaOFbSAMA4M9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Because the nozzle on the ASX is smaller, this tws foam tips fit it perfectly and I can insert it deeper than using regular foam tips.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> I am using this foam tips
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_iqaOFbSAMA4M9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> Because the nozzle on the ASX is smaller, this tws foam tips fit it perfectly and I can insert it deeper than using regular foam tips.



between ZAX and ASX which one is your favorite? seems like ASX hit the spot with non fatiguing treble and almost perfect imaging...

will prolly get it 11/11


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Please always use a tissue when shaping the foam tips..


----------



## twgtwg (Nov 2, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> https://www.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASF
> 
> Review by CHIFI EAR. It is in German, just google translate. He did a review for the ASX too (link in previous pages), and he thinks the ASF and ASX don't differ much.



This is the ASX and ASF reviews in English version :

https://en.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASX

https://en.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASF


----------



## paulwasabii

Slater said:


> It seems most people really like the sound of the Z1 (ie the XUN dynamic driver).
> 
> Maybe I need to pick up a set on 11.11? It shouldn’t be too hard to convert it to wired. Looks like the exact same shell as the CA16.
> 
> The question is if it’s worth $30, when there’s plenty of competition at around that price, including the new Blon 03 upgrade coming out.



@axhng did it a while back, here is his post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-15901878


----------



## voicemaster

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Please always use a tissue when shaping the foam tips..


Shaping? We still do that?


----------



## alamnp

twgtwg said:


> This is the ASX and ASF reviews in English version :
> 
> https://en.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASX
> 
> https://en.chi-fiear.com/Hersteller/KNOWLEDGE-ZENITH/ASF



I started to think they might get a faulty ASX, same like my TRN V90s


----------



## Jonatan

alamnp said:


> I started to think they might get a faulty ASX, same like my TRN V90s



Cant you return them sometime

And yes i hope the get some foulty asx/asf couse i ordered the asf and im starting to think i was better doing ordering the zax haha


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> between ZAX and ASX which one is your favorite? seems like ASX hit the spot with non fatiguing treble and almost perfect imaging...
> 
> will prolly get it 11/11


ASX. You know I highly praised the ZAX before, but after I listen to the ASX, somehow the ZAX sounds artificially bright like an overboosted treble. Vocal sounds thin and the cymbals while airy but just a bit too much. Still love the ZAX tho but the ASX is better imho.


----------



## voicemaster

Jonatan said:


> Cant you return them sometime
> 
> And yes i hope the get some foulty asx/asf couse i ordered the asf and im starting to think i was better doing ordering the zax haha


My ASF is out for delivery today. I will do a comparison with the ZAX and ASX.


----------



## lgcubana

@Otto Motor  did not hold back in his evaluation of the KZ ASX
_Quote:
The KZ ASX earphone is the first super-budget earphone featuring 10 drivers. KZ hold on to a strong V-shaped tuning with the bassy side keeping the upper hand – and a weird, most irritating early treble rolloff. Stay away!_


----------



## PhonoPhi

lgcubana said:


> @Otto Motor  did not hold back in his evaluation of the KZ ASX
> _Quote:
> The KZ ASX earphone is the first super-budget earphone featuring 10 drivers. KZ hold on to a strong V-shaped tuning with the bassy side keeping the upper hand – and a weird, most irritating early treble rolloff. Stay away!_



I hope to get my ASX soon.
AS16 was never universally loved, but for me it is one of my favourite IEMs; we all have different years, music preferences, etc.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my ASF, but haven't had the chance to listen with it yet. I just did the unboxing and they are the exact same size as ASX dimension and fit wise. I like the ASF face plate finishing better than the ASX. The white silicone tips are trash tho, it doesn't seal properly. Get some foam tips or AZLA silicone tips.


----------



## saldsald (Nov 2, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> ASX. You know I highly praised the ZAX before, but after I listen to the ASX, somehow the ZAX sounds artificially bright like an overboosted treble. Vocal sounds thin and the cymbals while airy but just a bit too much. Still love the ZAX tho but the ASX is better imho.



For the record I always find the ZAX's treble artificially sounding and ASX is definitely much better. Really looking forward to your impression/review on the ASF. Why are they using the same mould for the ASF that is making it unnecessarily big...


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> ASX. You know I highly praised the ZAX before, but after I listen to the ASX, somehow the ZAX sounds artificially bright like an overboosted treble. Vocal sounds thin and the cymbals while airy but just a bit too much. Still love the ZAX tho but the ASX is better imho.



last straw... will get this ASX 11.11 for $70, sounds like an IEM with exceptional imaging.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Just received my ASF, but haven't had the chance to listen with it yet. I just did the unboxing and they are the exact same size as ASX dimension and fit wise. I like the ASF face plate finishing better than the ASX. The white silicone tips are trash tho, it doesn't seal properly. Get some foam tips or AZLA silicone tips.



oooh nice, I will wait for your impression, if it's similar to ASX like the Chinese review, I might get ASF instead for a lot cheaper.


----------



## alamnp

ASF VS ASX, felt similar with Etymotic Research ER3XR VS ER4XR


----------



## saldsald (Nov 2, 2020)

saldsald said:


> Received already today, really surprised by how good they actually sound, fatigue free with enough detail, slightly bright for my liking (or just lack a bit of mids). Bass definition can be higher too but can't ask for more. The packaging plus the shipping wonder how they managed to keep these at such low price.



The EDX is in some ways better sounding than my Tin T4 such as on strings and almost sounds like an open back on some tracks... probably won't buy any single DD IEMs anymore that cost more than 7 dollars.


----------



## voicemaster

Okay so initial impression of ASF is it sound quite similar to the ASX. Same tuning and imaging, a touch darker than the ASX. Now, there are subtle difference between the two and that is airiness. As you probably already know, the ASX is vented/open while the ASF is closed and that imho the main difference between the two. Another noticeable difference is the bass, the bass in ASF is more intense and slammed harder. I think both has the same soundstage, but the ASX gives an airier presentation thus making it sound more open. Will do more listening and burning in, but so far so good.


----------



## Wgibson

voicemaster said:


> Okay so initial impression of ASF is it sound quite similar to the ASX. Same tuning and imaging, a touch darker than the ASX. Now, there are subtle difference between the two and that is airiness. As you probably already know, the ASX is vented/open while the ASF is closed and that imho the main difference between the two. Another noticeable difference is the bass, the bass in ASF is more intense and slammed harder. I think both has the same soundstage, but the ASX gives an airier presentation thus making it sound more open. Will do more listening and burning in, but so far so good.



More present all BA bass in the ASF sounds like a win, and I guess you could always drill some holes in the ASF back plate...

Still interested, and not hearing anything, about the supposed BA improvements in these models. Apparently they changed the color of the body and nozzles, but what else is different?


----------



## rainbowneggs

i just got my ASX and i’m pretty impressed thus far. separation is clear, and i don’t find the trebles too harsh. in fact, it sounds pretty good with my SPC, which i couldn’t use with my ZSX. this is just the first impression though.


----------



## voicemaster

My right side face plate has a missed plating on the bottom side. The faceplate on the asf is metal.


----------



## voicemaster

rainbowneggs said:


> i just got my ASX and i’m pretty impressed thus far. separation is clear, and i don’t find the trebles too harsh. in fact, it sounds pretty good with my SPC, which i couldn’t use with my ZSX. this is just the first impression though.


It doesn't sound closed right?


----------



## rainbowneggs

voicemaster said:


> It doesn't sound closed right?



definitely not


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> My right side face plate has a missed plating on the bottom side. The faceplate on the asf is metal.


So we should have bought the ASF instead? Have you tried listening with one ear ASX and the other ASF to pick up the sound difference?

That's pretty bad QC btw.


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> So we should have bought the ASF instead? Have you tried listening with one ear ASX and the other ASF to pick up the sound difference?
> 
> That's pretty bad QC btw.


The ASF sounds a touch more closed than the ASX. I still like the ASX a little more, but the ASF is close second. My ZAX downgraded to third place now. I think they rushed the production for these two models. It doesn't affect the sound whatsoever tho so not really a problem for me.
Have you tried listening with one ear ASX and the other ASF to pick up the sound difference? I did and they both sounded really similar just a touch airier on the ASX and the ASF thump more than the ASX, but the difference is like +1dB more. But this can change because the ASX did changed after 20 hours or so. I expect the ASF to do the same so will keep listening. This is fun.


----------



## voicemaster

This song has a very open/vast sound for some reason. Really good with both the ASX and ASF.


----------



## IEMmasterRace

alamnp said:


> between ZAX and ASX which one is your favorite? seems like ASX hit the spot with non fatiguing treble and almost perfect imaging...
> 
> will prolly get it 11/11



Me too. will get it on 11/11, been eyeing this iem for a long time since its announcement


----------



## IEMmasterRace (Nov 3, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Just received my ASF, but haven't had the chance to listen with it yet. I just did the unboxing and they are the exact same size as ASX dimension and fit wise. I like the ASF face plate finishing better than the ASX. The white silicone tips are trash tho, it doesn't seal properly. Get some foam tips or AZLA silicone tips.



Judging by crinacle graph, i think kz asf will suit my preferences really well. I like the treble roll off on 5khz to make the treble more smooth and makes the overally sound more clean + less airy and fatiguing.

Do the ASF sound airy when listening to vocal (especially female focal)? Or the graph is right (not airy, more smooth and warm)


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> The ASF sounds a touch more closed than the ASX. I still like the ASX a little more, but the ASF is close second. My ZAX downgraded to third place now. I think they rushed the production for these two models. It doesn't affect the sound whatsoever tho so not really a problem for me.
> Have you tried listening with one ear ASX and the other ASF to pick up the sound difference? I did and they both sounded really similar just a touch airier on the ASX and the ASF thump more than the ASX, but the difference is like +1dB more. But this can change because the ASX did changed after 20 hours or so. I expect the ASF to do the same so will keep listening. This is fun.



But it is really bad marketing if they sound this similar yet the ASX is priced doubled. I am also surprised to hear they are making them to sound so similar with half the BA count and so what are those extra BAs doing?


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 3, 2020)

IEMmasterRace said:


> Judging by crinacle graph, i think kz asf will suit my preferences really well. I like the treble roll off on 5khz to make the treble more smooth and makes the overally sound more clean + less airy and fatiguing.
> 
> Do the ASF sound airy when listening to vocal (especially female focal)? Or the graph is right (not airy, more smooth and warm)


It is more smooth and warm. Also, it depends on the recording, but female vocal has enough warmth to it but not too thick as to make it muddy. If we compare to older KZ (ZSX and ZAX), gone are the thin vocal that KZ is known for.


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> But it is really bad marketing if they sound this similar yet the ASX is priced doubled. I am also surprised to hear they are making them to sound so similar with half the BA count and so what are those extra BAs doing?


It just not more airy, but the ASX gives you a sense of presence like you are there, any tiny bit of air, echo or reverb is easier to hear on the ASX. It is hard to explain, but if you listen to both of them critically, you can tell the difference. If we just count the cost of the drivers then 20 drivers vs 10 drivers = double price. 
Anyway, this ASF sounds really good and I think a better buy than the ZAX right now.


----------



## voicemaster

Another song to showcase the vast soundstage


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> It just not more airy, but the ASX gives you a sense of presence like you are there, any tiny bit of air, echo or reverb is easier to hear on the ASX. It is hard to explain, but if you listen to both of them critically, you can tell the difference. If we just count the cost of the drivers then 20 drivers vs 10 drivers = double price.
> Anyway, this ASF sounds really good and I think a better buy than the ZAX right now.



I think "sense of presence like you are there" is a good description for the ASX. I feel the same. Too bad I really shouldn't be getting another pair of earphones anymore


----------



## Pelicampe

Maybe a drill vent in the ASF will make it sound like the ASX ? 
less bass slam but a better stage ?

Who is ready to make this expérimentation ?


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> This song has a very open/vast sound for some reason. Really good with both the ASX and ASF.




"for some reason"
That song is so sparkly lol.  Would love to know how the song producer did it.


----------



## unifutomaki

That's one quick appearance on the 2nd-hand market if there ever was


----------



## saldsald

unifutomaki said:


> That's one quick appearance on the 2nd-hand market if there ever was


That is more expensive than the sale price.


----------



## unifutomaki

saldsald said:


> That is more expensive than the sale price.



People are... shall we say... optimistic


----------



## BubisUK

Received mine  Will give them a listen now


----------



## voicemaster

So now more people have received their ASX/ASF, will be great if we have more reviews/impressions.


----------



## BubisUK

First impressions are I should say wow, really nice 👍 A lot of micro details on the high end on some tracks I haven't heard before. Listening to new Marilyn Manson album now


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> If we compare to older KZ (ZSX and ZAX), gone are the thin vocal that KZ is known for.



ZAX just came out. It’s literally the newest and most current hybrid they have.

Also, it’s not really fair to compare ZAX against all-BA IEMs like ASF/ASX. Hybrids will always sound different and have different characteristics than all-BAs.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> ZAX just came out. It’s literally the newest and most current hybrid they have.


True, and I would not say that ZAX are particularly thin, C16 are quite "thick" - but I am all ready for ASX miracle


----------



## BubisUK

ASX does sound similar to CCA CA16, but it has more detail in high end, but they are not shouty. I don't really like bloated bass, and ASX has authority when needed, but it is not overwhelming, if that makes sense  Definitely a keeper for me  I am listening of my phone at the moment, will give more thoughts later after Btr5 treatment.


----------



## voicemaster

Slater said:


> ZAX just came out. It’s literally the newest and most current hybrid they have.
> 
> Also, it’s not really fair to compare ZAX against all-BA IEMs like ASF/ASX. Hybrids will always sound different and have different characteristics than all-BAs.


Well, same thing when people compare AS10, AS16 to the ZS10pro, ZS7, etc. Well the ZAX used the ZSX era BA drivers for their high and mid, while the new ASX/ASF using new BA drivers. What I am saying is KZ new BA drivers definitely an improvement from their old one, if later they release a successor of ZAX (hybrid) using the new BA drivers, I can't wait. Also, it is interesting to see a vented all BA iem like the ASX.


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> True, and I would not say that ZAX are particularly thin, C16 are quite "thick" - but I am all ready for ASX miracle


The ZAX only sounds a bit thin when compared to ASX/ASF. When compared to the ZSX or any older KZ, they are quite similar. It just the new BA drivers that KZ is using for the ASX/ASF so its good that it is different otherwise why even make a new BA driver lol.


----------



## voicemaster

BubisUK said:


> First impressions are I should say wow, really nice 👍 A lot of micro details on the high end on some tracks I haven't heard before. Listening to new Marilyn Manson album now


Isn't the ASX do a better job at isolating each individual instrument?


----------



## BubisUK

voicemaster said:


> Isn't the ASX do a better job at isolating each individual instrument?


I would say it does, I will have more time on thursday to listen to it and compare to other stuff I have


----------



## ZAXon 7

voicemaster said:


> So now more people have received their ASX/ASF, will be great if we have more reviews/impressions.


may i ask you which software do you use to play music on android and if you use filters like viper4android?


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 3, 2020)

ZAXon 7 said:


> may i ask you which software do you use to play music on android and if you use filters like viper4android?


I use MediaMonkey to play audio files and VLC to play video files. I don't use filter at all and I also turned off Dolby Atmos or any other sound enhancement on my phone (Samsung S20+).


----------



## ZAXon 7

voicemaster said:


> I use MediaMonkey to play audio files and VLC to play video files. I don't use filter at all and I also turned off Dolby Atmos or any other sound enhancement on my phone (Samsung S20+).


thank you, didn't know MediaMonkey, i'll try it.


----------



## rambomhtri

Hi, I bought like 2 years ago the IEM KZ ZS7:







I'm in love with them, sound quality is amazing and the build quality is even better. Yesterday, the original cable ripped off, right before the transparent sleeve that's at the IEM's end. So... I've been checking out KZ store today and I've noticed some good new IEM's form the brand: ASX, ASF, ZAX.

Originally, I intended to buy a new cable, but apparently the pin of these KZ ZS7 is quite rare: it's a 2-pin 0.75mm A Paragraph. Also, I wanted to buy a Bluetooth adapter, like their new grey one with BT5.0:






Problem is, they don't make it for the A paragraph, only B and C. What a bummer, any ideas?
I already have their previous black version, but it's BT 4.0 and sometimes I have connection problems.






So, I was thinking... should I replace these amazing IEMs because it's hard to find good cables for their rare pin out, or should I stick with them?

The real questions really are:

1. Are either the ASX, ASF or ZAX a noticeable upgrade from these? So much to spend between $60-80?

2. I was looking for a cable, but I have difficulties finding out A paragraph compatible ones... I don't even know if you can make the B or C compatible by cutting the housing somehow... I've found some TRN, but none is 90 degree jack, like the original, and I loved that.


----------



## alamnp

rambomhtri said:


> Hi, I bought like 2 years ago the IEM KZ ZS7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Viber

saldsald said:


> That is more expensive than the sale price.



Well, he did made them better by inserting them into his Golden Ears.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Well, he did made them better by inserting them into his Golden Ears.


Extra Corona won't hurt.


----------



## Jonatan

rambomhtri said:


> Hi, I bought like 2 years ago the IEM KZ ZS7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didnt listen to neither of thouse but based on all the reviews and imoressions i woukd reccomend you to upgrade to the ASF, the ASX is not really worth it for double the price 
Also when buying buy other eartios couse the KZ ones are trash for most people
Get the kz foem ones or azla silicon
Hope i helped


----------



## voicemaster

rambomhtri said:


> Hi, I bought like 2 years ago the IEM KZ ZS7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## voicemaster

Jonatan said:


> I didnt listen to neither of thouse but based on all the reviews and imoressions i woukd reccomend you to upgrade to the ASF, the ASX is not really worth it for double the price
> Also when buying buy other eartios couse the KZ ones are trash for most people
> Get the kz foem ones or azla silicon
> Hope i helped


The starline tips from KZ is good. I like their material and used them a lot back then before going to foam tips. This new white one that comes from ASX and ASF is complete trash (it feels like BLON BL03 eartips before they changed it).


----------



## Jonatan

voicemaster said:


> The starline tips from KZ is good. I like their material and used them a lot back then before going to foam tips. This new white one that comes from ASX and ASF is complete trash (it feels like BLON BL03 eartips before they changed it).



yes i was talking about the new white ones
starlines are good but not the best imo also imo the starlines sound better when inverted


----------



## astermk (Nov 3, 2020)

rambomhtri said:


> Hi, I bought like 2 years ago the IEM KZ ZS7:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't speak for the ZS7 in particular, but I had a ZS10 Pro (another 5 driver hybrid that came out around the same time as the ZS7) and a friend has the CCA C12, a newer 6 driver hybrid. The ZAX are audibly better than both. I still like the ZS10 Pro, but I really have no reason to use them anymore, as the ZAX are the same tuning but with a bigger soundstage and just overall more technical chops all around.


----------



## BubisUK

Some shops will have a very big discounts on sale 😃


----------



## rambomhtri (Nov 3, 2020)

astermk said:


> I can't speak for the ZS7 in particular, but I had a ZS10 Pro (another 5 driver hybrid that came out around the same time as the ZS7) and a friend has the CCA C12, a newer 6 driver hybrid. The ZAX are audibly better than both. I still like the ZS10 Pro, but I really have no reason to use them anymore, as the ZAX are the same tuning but with a bigger soundstage and just overall more technical chops all around.



I'm really interested in the opinion of the owners of the ZS7 that try the ZAX. As I'm very happy with the ZS7 after 2 years of use, there's really no reason to change them, I love the sound and the build quality, so there's little margin of improvement from my perspective. The only reason for me to replace the ZS7 is the cable connection. I see their 0.75mm version is very rare, and the ZAX have a more conventional connection, so there's way more offer of compatible cables.

Also... is it me or are the ZAX a little bulkier than the ZS7?
ZAXs look like, once set up, they bulge/stand out farther than the ZS7s.


----------



## MacAttack7

What's the nozzle size on ASF & ASX if I wanted to order some SpinFit tips?


----------



## voicemaster

rambomhtri said:


> I'm really interested in the opinion of the owners of the ZS7 that try the ZAX. As I'm very happy with the ZS7 after 2 years of use, there's really no reason to change them, I love the sound and the build quality, so there's little margin of improvement from my perspective. The only reason for me to replace the ZS7 is the cable connection. I see their 0.75mm version is very rare, and the ZAX have a more conventional connection, so there's way more offer of compatible cables.
> 
> Also... is it me or are the ZAX a little bulkier than the ZS7?
> ZAXs look like, once set up, they bulge/stand out farther than the ZS7s.


I have both and the zax is smaller. It is the same size as zs10pro.


----------



## Nimweth

rambomhtri said:


> I'm really interested in the opinion of the owners of the ZS7 that try the ZAX. As I'm very happy with the ZS7 after 2 years of use, there's really no reason to change them, I love the sound and the build quality, so there's little margin of improvement from my perspective. The only reason for me to replace the ZS7 is the cable connection. I see their 0.75mm version is very rare, and the ZAX have a more conventional connection, so there's way more offer of compatible cables.
> 
> Also... is it me or are the ZAX a little bulkier than the ZS7?
> ZAXs look like, once set up, they bulge/stand out farther than the ZS7s.


I still love my ZS7s. That mid BA combination is something special as it is also in the BA10.


----------



## rambomhtri

voicemaster said:


> I have both and the zax is smaller. It is the same size as zs10pro.


Could you upload a picture of both of them, laying on their flat surfaces, to check their heights?
Thanks!


----------



## Jonatan

Did somebody try to drill some holes in the ASF to make it open like the asx? Or does anyone know if it could potentialy work


----------



## PhonoPhi

For you, single DD lovers, KZ (well, technically CCA) has listened to you (could not get the link "order now" work), but "oppotys" are "vastly impressive"


----------



## voicemaster

Its like poor man's jvc ha-fx1100.


----------



## chinmie

saldsald said:


> But it is really bad marketing if they sound this similar yet the ASX is priced doubled. I am also surprised to hear they are making them to sound so similar with half the BA count and so what are those extra BAs doing?



reading the close comparison between the ASF and the ASX reminds me a lot to the Sony EX1000 and EX800. the pricier one has more details, but the cheaper one might suit more people because of the safer tuning, and seemingly a more worth it when factoring the price. 

but they have enough differences that some who enjoyed one might end up buying both


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> For you, single DD lovers, KZ (well, technically CCA) has listened to you (could not get the link "order now" work), but "oppotys" are "vastly impressive"


Where's the order link?
We must do better to stop @voicemaster getting another iem before anyone else.
Because, you know, he NEVERGIVEUP!


----------



## saldsald (Nov 3, 2020)

I really highly recommend you guys trying out the EDX especially those who already bought the ZAX, ASX/ASF, they are really so surprisingly good sounding and detailed. Only draw back is relatively thin top end but I tried EQing and the sound is somehow already better than my Tin T4 which costed me 10+ times sadly. The bass response is no slouch either just not "bass-boosted". It is basically same as the ZAX. Stage is really wide making imaging a bit unrealistic but that is not a real con.


----------



## Slater (Nov 3, 2020)

rambomhtri said:


> I'm really interested in the opinion of the owners of the ZS7 that try the ZAX. As I'm very happy with the ZS7 after 2 years of use, there's really no reason to change them, I love the sound and the build quality, so there's little margin of improvement from my perspective. The only reason for me to replace the ZS7 is the cable connection. I see their 0.75mm version is very rare, and the ZAX have a more conventional connection, so there's way more offer of compatible cables.
> 
> Also... is it me or are the ZAX a little bulkier than the ZS7?
> ZAXs look like, once set up, they bulge/stand out farther than the ZS7s.



The Faaeal hibiscus cable fits the ZS7 perfectly, and is an absolute steal for the price. If you like the ZS7, keep it and treat yourself to a new cable for it.

Also, not sure who told you that there’s few cables for the ZS7. There’s loads and loads of them that fit. I have at least 3 dozen that fit the ZS6/ZS7 just fine.


----------



## alamnp

rambomhtri said:


> I'm really interested in the opinion of the owners of the ZS7 that try the ZAX. As I'm very happy with the ZS7 after 2 years of use, there's really no reason to change them, I love the sound and the build quality, so there's little margin of improvement from my perspective. The only reason for me to replace the ZS7 is the cable connection. I see their 0.75mm version is very rare, and the ZAX have a more conventional connection, so there's way more offer of compatible cables.
> 
> Also... is it me or are the ZAX a little bulkier than the ZS7?
> ZAXs look like, once set up, they bulge/stand out farther than the ZS7s.



compared with ZS7, more detailed bass, both mid and sub bass on ZAX and more bass period. Mid on ZAX more pronounced. Treble on lower volume on ZAX compared to ZS7, good extension without being sibilant, better timbre, fits better than ZS7 (I used Comply tip to secure it). Imaging and soundstage, can't compare between ZAX and ZS7, a whole different class.


----------



## alamnp

saldsald said:


> I really highly recommend you guys trying out the EDX especially those who already bought the ZAX, ASX/ASF, they are really so surprisingly good sounding and detailed. Only draw back is relatively thin top end but I tried EQing and the sound is somehow already better than my Tin T4 which costed me 10+ times sadly. The bass response is no slouch either just not "bass-boosted". It is basically same as the ZAX. Stage is really wide making imaging a bit unrealistic but that is not a real con.



how is it possible for a single DD?? It seems too good to be true...


----------



## saldsald

alamnp said:


> how is it possible for a single DD?? It seems too good to be true...



You might miss some micro details on more complicated tracks. However, I really don't think you can hear too much difference on classical tracks (which are mostly recorded live or in a hall) or live recording which there is less layering in the mastering processing. The bass response is much better than the Tin T4. Top end is a bit thin and less detailed thou but for 7 dollars you are definitely getting more than you paid. Although I always prefer my other IEMs for vocal tracks but I really feel I can enjoy as much listening to classical, wind band etc. with the EDX. The stock cable also sounds ok with the EDX.


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> You might miss some micro details on more complicated tracks. However, I really don't think you can hear too much difference on classical tracks (which are mostly recorded live or in a hall) or live recording which there is less layering in the mastering processing. The bass response is much better than the Tin T4. Top end is a bit thin and less detailed thou but for 7 dollars you are definitely getting more than you paid. Although I always prefer my other IEMs for vocal tracks but I really feel I can enjoy as much listening to classical, wind band etc. with the EDX. The stock cable also sounds ok with the EDX.



Seriously do yourself a favour, get a pair of these and drink two less cups of harmful coffee.


----------



## Pelicampe

No returns about the KZ SA08 ? On paper it seem interisting.

And I like my S2, after eq'ing is got a warm and impactful organic sound when good reglage are found. Littles bugs from BT but I can life with them....

Looking for review on AE,  you can find goods and bads....


----------



## baskingshark

Pelicampe said:


> No returns about the KZ SA08 ? On paper it seem interisting.
> 
> And I like my S2, after eq'ing is got a warm and impactful organic sound when good reglage are found. Littles bugs from BT but I can life with them....
> 
> Looking for review on AE,  you can find goods and bads....



It is best to wait for reviews. The KZ TWS sets have a reputation for poor battery life +/- poor BT connectivity.
My friend's KZ TWS set only holds a 30 min charge after 3 months of use.


----------



## unifutomaki

Pelicampe said:


> No returns about the KZ SA08 ? On paper it seem interisting.
> 
> And I like my S2, after eq'ing is got a warm and impactful organic sound when good reglage are found. Littles bugs from BT but I can life with them....
> 
> Looking for review on AE,  you can find goods and bads....



Feel like too many people have been burnt by KZ TWS sets by this point that nobody will blind buy them.


----------



## BubisUK

This, uch, I wish I could get a better recording. 
On ASX you clearly can get the position of every instrument on the stage, coming from the correct spaces, probably this has some sort of the fancy word 😃 Just sounds amazing overall 👍


----------



## voicemaster

BubisUK said:


> This, uch, I wish I could get a better recording.
> On ASX you clearly can get the position of every instrument on the stage, coming from the correct spaces, probably this has some sort of the fancy word 😃 Just sounds amazing overall 👍



Imaging, depth of field? and soundstage.


----------



## alamnp

saldsald said:


> You might miss some micro details on more complicated tracks. However, I really don't think you can hear too much difference on classical tracks (which are mostly recorded live or in a hall) or live recording which there is less layering in the mastering processing. The bass response is much better than the Tin T4. Top end is a bit thin and less detailed thou but for 7 dollars you are definitely getting more than you paid. Although I always prefer my other IEMs for vocal tracks but I really feel I can enjoy as much listening to classical, wind band etc. with the EDX. The stock cable also sounds ok with the EDX.



Can you compare it with ED9?


----------



## Turkleton

BubisUK said:


> Some shops will have a very big discounts on sale 😃



Bruv, you gotta learn to use coupons..

Sometimes you gotta spend more money to save more money. Here's an example how..

I know that store (NiceHCK Audio Store) you screenshotted - it's literally the *only* store selling the ASF at $51. Everyone else is selling it at $58. Anyway, if you bought it today with the only eligible coupon of $1 off minimum purchase of $49, you'd be able to buy it for $45 (IF you enough have coins).

On 11.11, Select Coupons and Aliexpress Coupons won from games and tasks can be used to get you a better price. The ASF will be $56.40 so you just add a 16 core NiceHCK cable (now $11.68, but will be $9.31 on 11.11). Now your total is $65.70, which allows you to use:

A $6 off $65 Select Coupon,
a $3 off $64 store coupon, 
and an Aliexpress coupon (I'll use an example of one which I won, $8.70 off $60.90).
With 10% coins discount which I believe is normally calculated after Store and Select coupons.

So, (65.7 - 6 - 3) - (10%*56.7) - 8.7 = *$42.33*

You pay *less* for the earphones *AND* a 16 core cable. 

If you want to save as much money as possible, best be willing to put in the effort to game the system. Savin' money ain't always easy.


----------



## BubisUK

Turkleton said:


> Bruv, you gotta learn to use coupons..
> 
> Sometimes you gotta spend more money to save more money. Here's an example how..
> 
> ...


I am well aware about the coupons and the math behind all of that, it was just a stupid post about sale price being higher than the curent price, beside if they kept the price at 51, the end deal woud be better, because you could add some extra crap to go over 65, so you would end up with more stuff. And not all people have coins or win coupons. Just my 2 pennies


----------



## alamnp

Turkleton said:


> Bruv, you gotta learn to use coupons..
> 
> Sometimes you gotta spend more money to save more money. Here's an example how..
> 
> ...



wow bro... that's a good one...

any good coupon combo for trn BT20S Pro and ASF? trying to get the 2nd pair of BT20S Pro


----------



## saldsald

alamnp said:


> Can you compare it with ED9?


I don't have ED9, non exchangeable cable not for me.


----------



## Viber (Nov 4, 2020)

alamnp said:


> wow bro... that's a good one...
> 
> any good coupon combo for trn BT20S Pro and ASF? trying to get the 2nd pair of BT20S Pro



I saw the BT20S Pro for 45$ after coupons (15$) about 10 days ago.

Of course, those stupid 11.11 sales have to ruin things. 
Same prices,slower shipping. Yay?


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> I saw the BT20S Pro for 45$ after coupons (15$) about 10 days ago.
> 
> Of course, those stupid 11.11 sales have to ruin things.
> Same prices,slower shipping. Yay?



where? links pls?


----------



## PhonoPhi

For you, single DD fans/lovers:
CCA CSA and CST now available at CCA Global AE store:
https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/h...b3ol&pagePath=index.htm&gclid=null&extParams=


----------



## Turkleton

BubisUK said:


> I am well aware about the coupons and the math behind all of that, it was just a stupid post about sale price being higher than the curent price, beside if they kept the price at 51, the end deal woud be better, because you could add some extra crap to go over 65, so you would end up with more stuff. *And not all people have coins or win coupons. *Just my 2 pennies



Yep, that's why I pointed out that it takes effort to save big money on 11.11. I know the coins will be a chore, but the coupons are just there for the taking. It's low hanging fruit, man... You just gotta follow some stores, share some links, play some games and you'll get some nice coupons. 

About the store not keeping it at $51, I assume it's probably due to much smaller profit margins for the lower price ranges. NiceHCK Audio is the only store I know which has really good prices all year round for its followers. Once you factor in the Select and 11.11 coupons, they're _probably_ making only a 20% profit margin or even less. I remember reading a comment by Kopi o Kaya (who worked as a tuner with KZ and TRN) that these guys' profit margins are already razor thin.


----------



## Viber

alamnp said:


> where? links pls?



Like i told you, it was cancelled for that STUPID 11.11 sale.  So i have no link to give.


----------



## Turkleton (Nov 5, 2020)

alamnp said:


> wow bro... that's a good one...
> 
> any good coupon combo for trn BT20S Pro and ASF? trying to get the 2nd pair of BT20S Pro


Sorry man, I could quickly do the ASF based on that one store because I always check NiceHCK for good deals. Lemme have a look and see if anything comes to me.. Takes a while because you literally have to check each store, their coupon price ranges and the Select amounts they accept.

Seeing that the ASF will be about 56 and the BT20S Pro is going for the same, I suggest you start checking in daily to Gameland to get that $15 off $100 coupon. Supposedly it's first come, first serve, so maybe there's a finite number of coupons to be claimed?

Edit: I think your best bet is to get the ASF from AK Audio and BT20S Pro from TRN Official Store. AK Audio has a $10 off $55 coupon (which I think is specific to the ASF) and buying from the TRN Official Store lets you stack an additional $2 coupon. Total on 11.11 should be:

55.84 + 56.57 = 112.41
AK $10 off store coupon
TRN $2 off store coupon
Aliexpress Select $6 off $65
Aliexpress $15 off 100

Total should be $89.41 - so you're kinda getting both at $45 each.

Links:
KZ ASF: https://a.aliexpress.com/_msv4Nkz
TRN BT20S Pro: https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOWGQl7

Note: These prices might change based on the stores' shipping prices to your country.

Heads up to those looking at the ASF (unless AK suddenly decides to make that $10 off $55 coupon ineligible for use on 11.11) you can probably get it for only $40 with a very easy to get $5 Aliexpress coupon. Pretty good deal..


----------



## unifutomaki

PhonoPhi said:


> For you, single DD fans/lovers:
> CCA CSA and CST now available at CCA Global AE store:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/h...b3ol&pagePath=index.htm&gclid=null&extParams=



KZ single DDs are like buses..  you wait forever for 1 and then 3 come at once


----------



## Nimweth

unifutomaki said:


> KZ single DDs are like buses..  you wait forever for 1 and then 3 come at once


That's a bit confusing, CVJ's CSA is a dual hybrid (1DD + 1BA).


----------



## alamnp

Turkleton said:


> Sorry man, I could quickly do the ASF based on that one store because I always check NiceHCK for good deals. Lemme have a look and see if anything comes to me.. Takes a while because you literally have to check each store, their coupon price ranges and the Select amounts they accept.
> 
> Seeing that the ASF will be about 56 and the BT20S Pro is going for the same, I suggest you start checking in daily to Gameland to get that $15 off $100 coupon. Supposedly it's first come, first serve, so maybe there's a finite number of coupons to be claimed?
> 
> ...



wow thank you bro, will definitely get this... my wallet really thanks you.


----------



## Pelicampe

Turkleton said:


> Sorry man, I could quickly do the ASF based on that one store because I always check NiceHCK for good deals. Lemme have a look and see if anything comes to me.. Takes a while because you literally have to check each store, their coupon price ranges and the Select amounts they accept.
> 
> Seeing that the ASF will be about 56 and the BT20S Pro is going for the same, I suggest you start checking in daily to Gameland to get that $15 off $100 coupon. Supposedly it's first come, first serve, so maybe there's a finite number of coupons to be claimed?
> 
> ...



This vendor have a 17€ off 78€ coupon  -> the ASX @61€.
With Selection coupon, there is a chance to pass under 60.


----------



## MacAttack7

Type in "KZ ASX" on a twitter search, choose the latest comments, and you won't want to order these anymore. 
I wish I wouldn't have ordered the ASF now. It was a bit of an impulse purchase one night. Need to hide my credit card sometimes I guess.


----------



## PhonoPhi

MacAttack7 said:


> Type in "KZ ASX" on a twitter search, choose the latest comments, and you won't want to order these anymore.
> I wish I wouldn't have ordered the ASF now. It was a bit of an impulse purchase one night. Need to hide my credit card sometimes I guess.


Your personal impressions would be more valuable to share.


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> Your personal impressions would be more valuable to share.


I didn't get it yet, tracking says it's in Nevada, so it shouldn't be too much longer.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Type in "KZ ASX" on a twitter search, choose the latest comments, and you won't want to order these anymore.
> I wish I wouldn't have ordered the ASF now. It was a bit of an impulse purchase one night. Need to hide my credit card sometimes I guess.


I don't have twitter, so what is the latest comment?


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> I don't have twitter, so what is the latest comment?


I read a bunch of the translated tweets and it was one bad review after another. Muffled sound, poor fit, distant vocals, dull, sounds weird.


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 5, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> I read a bunch of the translated tweets and it was one bad review after another. Muffled sound, poor fit, distant vocals, dull, sounds weird.


Muffled sound, distant vocals, dull, sounds weird = poor fit. One thing also is the white silicone tips that come with it is total trash. Maybe if you soak it in hot water it will soften up, but, there are much better ear tips than that. Not only that, the shape of the IEM also play an important part to the fit. The fin that goes into your ear lobe is kinda abysmally big, so some people won't even fit from that alone.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Muffled sound, distant vocals, dull, sounds weird = poor fit. One thing also is the white silicone tips that come with it is total trash. Maybe if you soak it in hot water it will soften up, but, there are much better ear tips than that.


Do you know the nozzle diameter? I think I'll get some spinfits since they fit me well.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Do you know the nozzle diameter? I think I'll get some spinfits since they fit me well.


It is about 3.5mm to 4mm. I use this foam tips and it is a perfect fit for the ASX/ASF.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RXKF79T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## alamnp

i think pretty much everywhere here... we are paying and upward 25% of the price at least for 5% differences.


MacAttack7 said:


> Do you know the nozzle diameter? I think I'll get some spinfits since they fit me well.



CP100 will suffice... I am assuming the sound color closed to CA16 in a way? This would be nice...


----------



## Nanokillzx

MacAttack7 said:


> What's the nozzle size on ASF & ASX if I wanted to order some SpinFit tips?



3.5mm I think. Have tried my old Spinfit CP100's and they're a bit loose but probably due to stretching


----------



## voicemaster

The mid section is 3.5mm and the tip is 4mm.


----------



## voicemaster

So after a few days of listening to the ASF, I really love this IEM. It may not have the realism as the ASX, but it is quite close and offers a more fun sound that will appeal to more people. If I have to choose between ASF and ZAX, with all the discounts that we have right now, it is a no brainer to get the ASF. But if you have a small ear, the ZAX might be better because the ASF is huge.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> So after a few days of listening to the ASF, I really love this IEM. It may not have the realism as the ASX, but it is quite close and offers a more fun sound that will appeal to more people. If I have to choose between ASF and ZAX, with all the discounts that we have right now, it is a no brainer to get the ASF. But if you have a small ear, the ZAX might be better because the ASF is huge.



how is the nozzle? huge is not a problem, but if it's short... then... there is a problem...

I like CA16, the nozzle is small and LONG... it sits nicely inside my ear canal, despite the size..


----------



## saldsald

MacAttack7 said:


> Type in "KZ ASX" on a twitter search, choose the latest comments, and you won't want to order these anymore.
> I wish I wouldn't have ordered the ASF now. It was a bit of an impulse purchase one night. Need to hide my credit card sometimes I guess.



All my results are somehow in Japanese. Can you just post the latest comments here? I already have the ASX and they are not bad at all just not for everyone.


----------



## IEMusic

How is the isolation with the ASF?  Any difference vs the ASX?  Also, how is the imaging of the ASF?  Thx.


----------



## alamnp

IEMusic said:


> How is the isolation with the ASF?  Any difference vs the ASX?  Also, how is the imaging of the ASF?  Thx.



per voicemaster, just lack in airiness, you could drill 2-3 vents to have the same result I think...


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> So after a few days of listening to the ASF, I really love this IEM. It may not have the realism as the ASX, but it is quite close and offers a more fun sound that will appeal to more people. If I have to choose between ASF and ZAX, with all the discounts that we have right now, it is a no brainer to get the ASF. But if you have a small ear, the ZAX might be better because the ASF is huge.


Glad to hear something positive! The negative twitter comments were brainwashing me, so I'll hold out some hope.
Wish mine would get here. It actually got to the US pretty fast, but it's still not in the hands of the USPS for some reason.


----------



## voicemaster

IEMusic said:


> How is the isolation with the ASF?  Any difference vs the ASX?  Also, how is the imaging of the ASF?  Thx.


ASF has better isolation because it is closed vs ASX with vented face plate.


----------



## saldsald (Nov 6, 2020)

saldsald said:


> Seriously do yourself a favour, get a pair of these and drink two less cups of harmful coffee.



deleted


----------



## MacAttack7

saldsald said:


> All my results are somehow in Japanese. Can you just post the latest comments here? I already have the ASX and they are not bad at all just not for everyone.


Just right click anywhere on the screen and choose "Translate to English". Works with both IE and Chrome.


----------



## saldsald

MacAttack7 said:


> Just right click anywhere on the screen and choose "Translate to English". Works with both IE and Chrome.



I can read Japanese. I see they are quite happy with their ASX.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 6, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> So after a few days of listening to the ASF, I really love this IEM. It may not have the realism as the ASX, but it is quite close and offers a more fun sound that will appeal to more people. If I have to choose between ASF and ZAX, with all the discounts that we have right now, it is a no brainer to get the ASF. But if you have a small ear, the ZAX might be better because the ASF is huge.



I feel similar about the KZ AS06...6x BA's per side.  They sound really nice, are smaller in size, easier to get a good seal. 
After buying the ZAX, I bought the AS06 with upgraded cable, glad I did.  An excellent IEM by KZ.

.


----------



## hmscott (Nov 6, 2020)

rainbowneggs said:


> i just got my ASX and i’m pretty impressed thus far. separation is clear, and i don’t find the trebles too harsh. in fact, it sounds pretty good with my SPC, which i couldn’t use with my ZSX. this is just the first impression though.


That's awesome, I'm still waiting for mine - nice to hear KZ has optimized the process of smoothing out the merging of all of those drivers.

It is surprising when cable effects expectations aren't what you expected.  For me I am still quite sensitive to extended high's and still enjoy the full range of aural experience.  These new KZ's are really pushing the range, but I'm still hearing them just fine, and enjoying their smooth blending of the BA's.

We are supposed to lose sensitivity to higher frequencies as we age, but my audio / hearing tests don't indicate that for myself - perhaps audiophiles get a "pass" on that degradation when we keep our ears "alive" from use.

I'm happy the ASX is treating you right, more hope that the KZ ASX will work well for me too.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hmscott said:


> We are supposed to lose sensitivity to higher frequencies as we age, but my audio / hearing tests don't indicate that for myself - perhaps audiophiles get a "pass" on that degradation when we keep our ears "alive" from use?



Almost guaranteed to lose high frequency perception with age.  Don't know what age you are, but would be an absolute miracle if you do not...


----------



## hmscott (Nov 6, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> Almost guaranteed to lose high frequency perception with age.  Don't know what age you are, but would be an
> absolute miracle if you do not...


Miracles are closer than we can possibly imagine...


Spoiler: OT Personal anecdotes...



Medical certainties are often overturned, and I really don't agree with the pabulum that they often hand out.

They'd rather blast my heart with electrical currents to burn out portions of my heart to stop the irregular heartbeats than look into the root cause for why they were happening.

I looked into it, and even though my blood tests showed I was in the satisfactory range for magnesium, I discovered my medications taken over the last 20 years had been gradually depleting magnesium - all it took was time - proven in their own medical papers - and so rather than go under the knife - or "Taser gun" for my heart, I took Magnesium supplementation of "KAL Magnesium Glycinate" 400mg, then 800mg, then 1200mg every day for months.

My next heart evaluation I had gone from 35% PVC's to 24% in 2 months. Then after a year anniversary of the Sonogram Treadmill "Stress" test that confirmed the 35% PVC's (from wearing a 24hr heart monitor), my heart had 0% PVC's, and still does today.

If I had listened to them I'd have gone through the single event that they could offer - it can't be repeated - and my heart would be compromised today, and I'd likely still have PVC's - or worse.

"*Believe Nothing You Hear, and Only One Half That You See*"

"“*You are young yet, my friend,” replied my host, “but the time will arrive when you will learn to judge for yourself of what is going on in the world, without trusting to the gossip of others. Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see.*"

Learn by experiencing for yourself.

BTW,  after 8 months of 1200mg / day of "KAL Magnesium Glycinate" I am "full" when it comes to Magnesium, I only take 400mg every so often as a test to check my level - look up how you "know" and why "Magnesium Glycinate" is preferred over other forms.

Of course I was in contact with my doctors throughout that time - as they were with me - and I went through a number of cardiac follow up's throughout that 12+ month period, and afterwards to today.

Don't ignore your doctors, but realize they are people too - and they can't possibly know everything when they need to know it and apply when it needs to be applied.  They and we still have so much more to learn, and experience.

Question Authority, and listen carefully to what they aren't saying.  Those magnesium pills along with a healthy diet and exercise aren't gonna help them make their Porsche payments.


----------



## JazzVinyl

hmscott said:


> Miracles are closer than we can possibly imagine...



Great, let's hope you can avoid glasses, too 

I bet you need a more competent audiologist, however.


----------



## hmscott (Nov 6, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> Great, let's hope you can avoid glasses, too
> I bet you need a more competent audiologist, however.


Machines man, it's all done with machines.  They press the button, it starts, I hear the tone(s) and I press the button, then they read the print out of the results from the tests.  All very scientific.  

The eye's though, that's another thing altogether.  Being born into a world that needs to find something for all of the ophthalmologists and optometrists to do, I was given glasses at an early age.

Miracles are within sight... 


Spoiler: Myopia could be something of a modern condition...



"*Rates of myopia have risen sharply in recent decades, and researchers have projected that half the world will be myopic by 2050. One study by the College of Optometrists found that myopia is more than twice as common among kids in the U.K. now than it was the 1960s. In some Asian countries, the prevalence of myopia has shot up even more. (In Seoul, South Korea, for example, about 95% of 19-year-old men are now myopic.)"

How Did Nearsighted People Manage Before Glasses Were Invented?*
https://www.livescience.com/65229-nearsighted-people-before-glasses-invented.html


----------



## Jonatan

JazzVinyl said:


> I feel similar about the KZ AS06...6x BA's per side.  They sound really nice, are smaller in size, easier to get a good seal.
> After buying the ZAX, I bought the AS06 with upgraded cable, glad I did.  An excellent IEM by KZ.
> 
> .


Actually the AS06 is 3BA per side


----------



## Alpha Whale

Just an FYI for those of you on the fence about the ASF.

These are my observations after using the ASF for one solid week.

The ASF is larger than the ZS3 but it fits my ears, pretty much, like the ZS3. Sound isolation is superb but, as usual, the ASF won't be for everyone.

The sound signature is quite reminiscent of the ZS3 (kicking bass, natural mids and rolled off highs).

To my ears, the ASF presentation is similar to the ZS3 presentation. It is warm, organic and intimate.

As expected, the ASF has better resolution than the ZS3 but, IMHO, this is where the rubber meats the road and the reason for the wide disparity in feedback. When I first put the ASF in my ears I was caught completely off guard. I have quite a ChiFi collection (single DD, hybrid and all BA) and, to my ears, the ASF does not put forth typical BA characteristics. Yes, there is the typical higher resolution but each of the BAs puts forth less of the surgical precision that BAs typical display. 
High resolution? Yes. 
Extreme definition with a colder leading edge? No.

In my opinion, the verbiage in the marketing material fails to be taken seriously and the message appears to get lost in translation. As far as I can tell, the information that KZ has put forth about their new BAs is not hyperbolic fodder. Whatever KZ has done to these modified BAs, it works for me because they sound more organic. Yes, the ASF presentation is more intimate but the ASF and ASX are just the first two of what I'm hoping will be a new era offerings from the company. KZ may just be turning a corner here and this may well be a milestone for the company. Only time will tell. 

They took the in-ear market by storm with offerings like the ED9, ED3, ATE and numerous other inexpensive but decent single dynamics.

KZ turned a corner when they moved their focus to offerings with detachable cables like the ZS3, ZST and ZS6. 

They turned another corner as they released full BA offerings like the AS10, BA10, AS06 and AS12. 

As they turn this corner it appears to some that KZ have lost the plot but I think this could actually be an important moment in the company's controversial history. Again, only time will tell.

The ASF balanced armatures sound decidedly different from the AS12 balanced armatures. The AS12 is one of my favorite KZs. ASF balanced armatures sound decidedly different from the BA10 balanced armatures. The BA10 is another one of my favorite KZs. The ASF has more in common with BA10 textures and timbre than it has with the AS12 textures and timbre; sadly, both the BA10 and the AS12 have existed mostly under the radar, even amongst the fans of the company but I deem them the unsung heroes for KZ. 

I think the ASF may be an important marker in regards to where the company is headed.

I'm looking forward to whatever they plan on offering next so long as said offerings contain these new BAs.

I like the ASF well enough to sit up and take notice. KZ has my full attention. 

Your move KZ.

Make it count.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 6, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> Just an FYI for those of you on the fence about the ASF.
> 
> These are my observations after using the ASF for one solid week.
> 
> ...


For all-BAs, AS16 and C16 were very decent and are still my favourites. AS12 are heavily dampened for me in their stock form, and without the treble filters - a beast 

For the hybrids, ZAX and CA16 work as an amazing couple for me for less treble-rich and more treble-rich music, respectively.

I hope when my ASX will finally arrive (after all mishaps and delays), I will like them even more 

P. S.  C16/CA16 corrected


----------



## Pelicampe

PhonoPhi said:


> For all-BAs, AS16 and CA16 were very decent and are still my favourites.



You mean C16 isn't ? 

Really want to read comparaison between C16 ans ASX.


----------



## BubisUK (Nov 6, 2020)

This is simply amazing on ASX, pumping, gorgeous and thick low end and all the litle nuances and cimbal sparks comming from around 
Edit: After reading all negative reviews and seeing the graph, I did not expect to like ASX as much as I do.


----------



## hmscott (Nov 6, 2020)

BubisUK said:


> This is simply amazing on ASX, pumping, gorgeous and thick low end and all the litle nuances and cimbal sparks comming from around
> Edit: After reading all negative reviews and seeing the graph, I did not expect to like ASX as much as I do.



Listening on Sennheiser HD598cs - balanced 4.4mm - was... "nice"...

Moved to the KZ ZAX's and,  WTH???!!!  What a jump into another realm, I can't wait to try the ASX's!!


----------



## brianforever

I'm confused..almost going to place my order for the KZ ZAX..should I hold? it seems there may be some contentions, are they still the King of current hill or slope atm for KZ?


----------



## Tonymac136

brianforever said:


> I'm confused..almost going to place my order for the KZ ZAX..should I hold? it seems there may be some contentions, are they still the King of current hill or slope atm for KZ?



They're really good but I haven't compared with the ASF or ASX. The problem that they have is that the price point has a lot of strong competition.


----------



## Mouseman

brianforever said:


> I'm confused..almost going to place my order for the KZ ZAX..should I hold? it seems there may be some contentions, are they still the King of current hill or slope atm for KZ?


For the price, they're an amazing unit. But I can't compare them to these new All-BA units. Then again, they have different price points. I've never been fond of all BAs and their bass,but I admit my mind could be changed with new tech that bridges the gap.


----------



## brianforever

Tonymac136 said:


> They're really good but I haven't compared with the ASF or ASX. The problem that they have is that the price point has a lot of strong competition.





Mouseman said:


> For the price, they're an amazing unit. But I can't compare them to these new All-BA units. Then again, they have different price points. I've never been fond of all BAs and their bass,but I admit my mind could be changed with new tech that bridges the gap.



Thanks, @Tonymac136 & @Mouseman for your kind opinions,  guess I m back on track to grabbing a pair of Matt Black KZ ZAX


----------



## voicemaster

brianforever said:


> Thanks, @Tonymac136 & @Mouseman for your kind opinions,  guess I m back on track to grabbing a pair of Matt Black KZ ZAX


The zax and asf are in the same price bracket. If you ask me which one I would get, I would get the asf, but the fit is different in the asf. It is bigger and has custom iem body style which won't fit some people at all. While the zax is smaller and easier to fit for most people's ears.


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 6, 2020)

Just got mine out of the mailbox. Will post an impression soon.

....Ok, finally got a chance to give them a try. I'm actually surprised at how well they fit and how good they sound. I'm not sure how this monstrosity pops into my ear so well and stays there, but somehow it works....very well actually.

Good thing I'm not a reviewer because all I can say is that they sound really good to me which I wasn't expecting. They are not muffled or veiled like some reviews I read. They have a rich bassy full spacious sound. 

I would actually purchase these again. 

If someone tells me a song to test and what to listen for maybe I could give a more useful evaluation.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Just got mine out of the mailbox. Will post an impression soon.


Hope you like it!!


----------



## ozarkcdn

JazzVinyl said:


> Great, let's hope you can avoid glasses, too
> 
> I bet you need a more competent audiologist, however.


Maybe that's why jazz is so nice... hit those mid-ranges, baby!  .... and listening to music is less frustrating than having to out out to the truck to get my bloody glasses so I can see the tv...


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 6, 2020)

Ok, finally got a chance to give the KZ ASF a try. I'm actually surprised at how well they fit and how good they sound. I'm not sure how this monstrosity pops into my ear so well and stays there, but somehow it works....very well actually.

Good thing I'm not a reviewer because all I can say is that they sound really good to me which I wasn't expecting. They are not muffled or veiled like some reviews I read. They have a rich bassy full spacious sound.

I would actually purchase these again. 

If someone tells me a song to test and what to listen for maybe I could give a more useful evaluation.


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 6, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> Ok, finally got a chance to give them a try. I'm actually surprised at how well they fit and how good they sound. I'm not sure how this monstrosity pops into my ear so well and stays there, but somehow it works....very well actually.
> 
> Good thing I'm not a reviewer because all I can say is that they sound really good to me which I wasn't expecting. They are not muffled or veiled like some reviews I read. They have a rich bassy full spacious sound.
> 
> ...



And yes the ASF is a fun sounding IEM.


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 6, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> And yes the ASF is a fun sounding IEM.



That sounds so good on the ASF I saved it so I can listen to it again later.
These are nice....I can't really find any flaws so far.
The sound coming from them sounds like it's coming from something much bigger than little earphones.

And I'm still amazed how well they fit. When I first looked at them I was thinking no way in hell that bulky thing will fit in my ear and stay there, but they fit just as good as my best-fitting pair which are way smaller. The bulk is all on the outside I guess, and they are light.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Jonatan said:


> Actually the AS06 is 3BA per side



I have heard it stated that they have 3 BA's per side and that they have 3x bass BA's 2x Mid BA's and 1x treble BA per side, making it 6x BA's per side.

But according to this, you are correct:

http://www.kzacoustics.com/2019/Balanced Armature_0104/76.html 

3x per side is...apparently...plenty


----------



## PhonoPhi

JazzVinyl said:


> I have heard it stated that they have 3 BA's per side and that they have 3x bass BA's 2x Mid BA's and 1x treble BA per side, making it 6x BA's per side.
> 
> But according to this, you are correct:
> 
> ...


The more BA - the merrier


----------



## JazzVinyl (Nov 6, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> The more BA - the merrier



Maybe, but the size of the unit starts getting in the way of a good seal?


----------



## PhonoPhi

JazzVinyl said:


> Maybe, but the side of the unit starts getting in the way of a good seal?


AS10 and AS06 have the same shell. AS12, C16 and AS16 are quite similar. ASX are more compact.

Those treble BAs are really tiny - 1 or 4 makes little difference, as with ASX and ASF.

Bass BAs may take more space to fit than 7-10 mm DDs. That is why ASX with 1 bass BA per side is more compact than AS12 and AS16 with two bass BAs per side.


----------



## JazzVinyl

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 and AS06 have the same shell. AS12, C16 and AS16 are quite similar. ASX are more compact.
> 
> Those treble BAs are really tiny - 1 or 4 makes little difference, as with ASX and ASF.
> 
> Bass BAs may take more space to fit than 7-10 mm DDs. That is why ASX with 1 bass BA per side is more compact than AS12 and AS16 with two bass BAs per side.



Have you heard the AS06's?  Just curious.


----------



## cenizas

cenizas said:


> Some of the new KZs, not sure if there's interest in 711 graphs for ultra budget stuff but just gonna post in case someone's looking for it
> ZST X and ZSN Pro X:
> 
> 
> ...


Some impressions and frequency response graphs of the new KZs, cross posted from the discovery thread.


----------



## Alpha Whale

PhonoPhi said:


> AS12 are heavily dampened for me in their stock form, and without the treble filters - a beast



I've thought about checking for filters on my AS12 but decided against it because my gut tells me that I would ruin a great sounding in-ear. They respond incredibly well to EQ, bass is gloriously clean and punchy while the midrange is spot on. Actually own two sets of AS12's.



PhonoPhi said:


> For the hybrids, ZAX and CA16 work as an amazing couple for me for less treble-rich and more treble-rich music, respectively.
> 
> I hope when my ASX will finally arrive (after all mishaps and delays), I will like them even more



I have the ASF in blue/silver and I think its the best looking KZ in-ear to date. The nozzles are quite small and I can't bring myself to possibly upsetting the ASF's beauty. I will be ordering another set in black just to open them up and search for possible filters (like the ZS3 and BA10 have). 

If the warmth I am hearing from the ASF is due to filters then I definitely want to hear the ASF unfiltered so I can hear and compare the two side by side. 

I'll put it this way. If, upon opening them, I find filters in the black set and then find that the ASF sounds better unfiltered I will absolutely buy a third set (in blue/silver) for modifying. 

Haven't had a warm and intimate set of KZ's for a while. These will do nicely.

Forgot to mention that I'm using Klipsch eartips. The stock eartips worked but made the upper midrange peak a bit too forward for me. The Klipsch eartips cleaned things up a bit.

Thought about getting the CA16 but rumor is that it is a more refined C10. I own the C10 but I rarely use it (10% or less of the time) so a CA16 would likely suffer the same fate in my collection. Who knows though. Maybe in the near future I'll pick up a set but for now the ASF will be included in regular rotation to scratch that warm and intimate itch.

I do raise the upper treble by about 2db on the ASF for more detail. The snares on Fleetwood Mac's "Dreams" have a more natural tone and decay than on every KZ hybrid I own. I haven't purchased the ZSX or ZAX yet, though. 

In the end, if I were a betting man, I'd be willing to bet that the ASF will be one of the most polarizing in-ears for 2020 (like the BA10 was in 2018). 

It's a thin line between love and hate.


----------



## Slater

MacAttack7 said:


> Ok, finally got a chance to give them a try. I'm actually surprised at how well they fit and how good they sound. I'm not sure how this monstrosity pops into my ear so well and stays there, but somehow it works....very well actually.
> 
> Good thing I'm not a reviewer because all I can say is that they sound really good to me which I wasn't expecting. They are not muffled or veiled like some reviews I read. They have a rich bassy full spacious sound.
> 
> ...



What IEM are we talking about here? My mind reading skills are a little rusty


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 6, 2020)

Slater said:


> What IEM are we talking about here? My mind reading skills are a little rusty


Oh crap....went back and made an edit.
KZ ASF


----------



## PhonoPhi

JazzVinyl said:


> Have you heard the AS06's?  Just curious.


I do have and have heard AS06.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 6, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> I've thought about checking for filters on my AS12 but decided against it because my gut tells me that I would ruin a great sounding in-ear. They respond incredibly well to EQ, bass is gloriously clean and punchy while the midrange is spot on. Actually own two sets of AS12's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still think that AS12 can be a real gem in good hands - take out those treble filters and dampen treble to your tastes, the bass is great and mids are good already.


----------



## Viber

ASF got good reviews on Ali so far, seems to be less polarizing than the ASX.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> ASF got good reviews on Ali so far, seems to be less polarizing than the ASX.


It is to be expected. The ASF has a more mainstream sound as opposed to the ASX. Problem is not many people have both because they both sounds amazingly similar tuning wise, but still have obvious differences. The ASX offers a more realistic depth and imaging in binaural recording which also great for watching movie (make sure don't use "headphone" setting while watching 5.1ch movies).


----------



## JazzVinyl

What do we expect the best price to be for the KZ ASF's on 11.11   ?


----------



## MacAttack7

A few weeks ago I could have gotten the ASF for $48, but paid $51 because I got in too much of a hurry.
I haven't seen anything advertised that low for 11.11 yet, but maybe with a coupon it would be.


----------



## mbwilson111

MacAttack7 said:


> A few weeks ago I could have gotten the ASF for $48, but paid $51 because I got in too much of a hurry.
> I haven't seen anything advertised that low for 11.11 yet, but maybe with a coupon it would be.



I paid $48 last week for the ASF and it has already cleared customs here and should be with me on Mon or Tues.  I do not need more gear here but  I ordered it because I like how it looks.... glad to see that people are saying it sounds good too.  I ordered the blue/silver.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 7, 2020)

KZ ASX came and what can I say: they are very muddy, and it's simply impossible to listen to them. too dense and intrusive sound, female vocals acquire a masculine accent, a lot of bass (although this can be recorded as a plus). the fit is comfortable, you need to use attachments one size smaller. to be honest, they aren't even worth half their cost. it's just a failure...


Spoiler


























despite the huge number of drivers, you will not find beautiful high frequencies here. As it seems to me, the driver coordination is very poorly tuned, because I hear that sometimes there are shouts and synthetic noise. sorry, but even BGVP DN2 sound much more detailed and balanced and cost less


----------



## baskingshark

Viber said:


> ASF got good reviews on Ali so far, seems to be less polarizing than the ASX.



I think the issue is that ASX is expensive for a KZ. Honestly at the $100ish USD region they are releasing into, there's very tough competition from some bigboy hybrids like the Fiio FH3, ThieAudio stuff, TRI I3 and even some single DD types around that price bracket. People expect much more for $100 USD in terms of tuning and refinement than say a $30ish KZ.

I experienced the same thing with the TRN BA8, that was their most expensive flagship set (let's ignore the $15000 USD TRN golden ears joke IEM for now). TRN BA8 isn't the worse sounding set, the graphs look mightily scary but they ain't as bad sounding as the graphs, surprisingly. Problem is, TRN also tried to parachute into the $100ish region and there's definitely better sounding gear for the same coin. TRN BA8 for a so called flagship also comes with a disgraceful set of accessories - some stock eartips and stock tangly cable that is found in their $30 TRNs. They added a $3 round hard case to give some semblance of "premium". Accessories aside, I honestly wouldn't recommend the TRN BA8 at even half the current price.


----------



## voicemaster

Mr.HiAudio said:


> KZ ASX came and what can I say: they are very muddy, and it's simply impossible to listen to them. too dense and intrusive sound, female vocals acquire a masculine accent, a lot of bass (although this can be recorded as a plus). the fit is comfortable, you need to use attachments one size smaller. to be honest, they aren't even worth half their cost. it's just a failure...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Try foam tips with it if you haven't


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 7, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Try foam tips with it if you haven't


they are not needed there, with them landing will cause discomfort. it is necessary to use the smallest attachments in order to plant them adequately (like motiks)



I do not recommend them for purchase, but if you want to throw out $ 100 then why not.

Tomorrow ASF will arrive, so I will


----------



## voicemaster

Mr.HiAudio said:


> they are not needed there, with them landing will cause discomfort. it is necessary to use the smallest attachments in order to plant them adequately (like motiks)
> I do not recommend them for purchase, but if you want to throw out $ 100 then why not.
> 
> Tomorrow ASF will arrive, so I will


I bet you won't like the ASF either as they sound similar,  have the same fit and body style.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

voicemaster said:


> I bet you won't like the ASF either as they sound similar,  have the same fit and body style.


I think so too, but hope for the best. fewer drivers means better consistency  . But honestly, I could not listen to 111, they tint very much and change the sound, everything hisses unnaturally. It's even more a matter of a bad crossover, I reworked it at cca a10, or rather removed the crossover completely and the sound became much better


----------



## MacAttack7

Mr.HiAudio said:


> KZ ASX came and what can I say: they are very muddy, and it's simply impossible to listen to them. too dense and intrusive sound, female vocals acquire a masculine accent, a lot of bass (although this can be recorded as a plus). the fit is comfortable, you need to use attachments one size smaller. to be honest, they aren't even worth half their cost. it's just a failure...
> 
> [/Spoiler]
> despite the huge number of drivers, you will not find beautiful high frequencies here. As it seems to me, the driver coordination is very poorly tuned, because I hear that sometimes there are shouts and synthetic noise. sorry, but even BGVP DN2 sound much more detailed and balanced and cost less


Can you give an example of a song that sounds bad and what to listen for?
I have the ASF and like them, but I don't really go into a deep analysis.
I just know I enjoy their sound, and nothing obviously negative stands out to me.
They do have a lot of bass.....didn't really notice any muddiness, but I've only tried about 8 different IEM's in my life, all pretty inexpensive.


----------



## voicemaster

Mr.HiAudio said:


> I think so too, but hope for the best. fewer drivers means better consistency  . But honestly, I could not listen to 111, they tint very much and change the sound, everything hisses unnaturally. It's even more a matter of a bad crossover, I reworked it at cca a10, or rather removed the crossover completely and the sound became much better


Well its your ears, it sounds amazing on my ears. I even ordered another one (black) just so if there is inconsistency with the production.


----------



## IEMusic

I just ordered the ASF for around $47, with coins.  If nothing else, hopefully it will provide a lot of isolation.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Well its your ears, it sounds amazing on my ears. I even ordered another one (black) just so if there is inconsistency with the production.


What do you mean inconsistency with the production. I was thinking about ordering another ASF, but I was going to wait.

When I find one that fits my ears so well, and I enjoy the sound I want two of them.
I have 2 DUNU DM-480's for that reason..........I didn't think I'd find much more below $70 that fit so well, but I think the ASF fits even better (really stays put)....although it does put a bit of painful pressure on the ear after a while until I get used to it.


----------



## Slater

Mr.HiAudio said:


> It's even more a matter of a bad crossover, I reworked it at cca a10, or rather removed the crossover completely and the sound became much better



Can you please provide a little more details? I’d love to hear more about it.

PM me if you don’t want to clog up the thread with mod related details.

Thanks!


----------



## MacAttack7

IEMusic said:


> I just ordered the ASF for around $47, with coins.  If nothing else, hopefully it will provide a lot of isolation.


I need to research how to use AliExpress coupons and coins. I have no idea how that stuff works.


----------



## Slater

MacAttack7 said:


> although it does put a bit of painful pressure on the ear after a while until I get used to it.



Try filing down or sanding off this portion of the plastic, and sanding it round and smooth again. It should take care of the problem.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Slater said:


> Can you please provide a little more details? I’d love to hear more about it.
> 
> PM me if you don’t want to clog up the thread with mod related details.
> 
> Thanks!


you just need to remove the stock crossover.  From the general plus, a 10 Ohm resistor goes to 30095, a 22 Ohm resistor for 29689, 22955 without a resistor for a straight line. Very strange, but these fittings do not support filtering by capacitors.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 8, 2020)

Slater said:


> Try filing down or sanding off this portion of the plastic, and sanding it round and smooth again. It should take care of the problem.


It won't work, the case is too thin. If I saw it off, there will be a hole. Discomfort from this elevation will be if you use large earpieces, but if you use small earpieces, the earbuds will fit completely into the ear and bring less discomfort


----------



## BubisUK

Mr.HiAudio said:


> KZ ASX came and what can I say: they are very muddy, and it's simply impossible to listen to them. too dense and intrusive sound, female vocals acquire a masculine accent, a lot of bass (although this can be recorded as a plus). the fit is comfortable, you need to use attachments one size smaller. to be honest, they aren't even worth half their cost. it's just a failure...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


What tips do you use on ASX?


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> What do you mean inconsistency with the production. I was thinking about ordering another ASF, but I was going to wait.
> 
> When I find one that fits my ears so well, and I enjoy the sound I want two of them.
> I have 2 DUNU DM-480's for that reason..........I didn't think I'd find much more below $70 that fit so well, but I think the ASF fits even better (really stays put)....although it does put a bit of painful pressure on the ear after a while until I get used to it.


Because the reviews are total opposite. So I suspect there is a bad batch or something like that because they rushed the production. So far tho my ASX and ASF sound amazing, but they do have some cosmetic problems.


----------



## voicemaster

BubisUK said:


> What tips do you use on ASX?


I told him to try foam but he refused so ....


----------



## BubisUK

I think if people don't like something, they just don't like it, so you just bite the bullet and move on  I loved the sound of Fiio FH1S, but could not get a comfortable fit, so just gave up on that set. 
   We all hear same iem's a bit different, due to our inner constructions of ears. I don't find ASX muddy at all and I love the way woman vocals sound on it, Sessions from the 17th ward was amazing on ASX, and the high end is present in them, but not accented too much or ear piercing.


----------



## BubisUK

voicemaster said:


> I told him to try foam but he refused so ....


It is crucial to find the tips that work perfectly.
I use the smallest spinfit's on all my iem's as they are the only tips that don't cause discomfort for my baby ear canals 😃


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

BubisUK said:


> What tips do you use on ASX?


S size tips from bgvp dn2 and m size tips like sony hybrid(two color black and green). 

with foam tips, the headphones will stick out like bananas from the ears.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Because the reviews are total opposite. So I suspect there is a bad batch or something like that because they rushed the production. So far tho my ASX and ASF sound amazing, but they do have some cosmetic problems.


Wouldn't it be safer to wait then and buy a 2nd pair later when the problems are worked out?


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

BubisUK said:


> It is crucial to find the tips that work perfectly.
> I use the smallest spinfit's on all my iem's as they are the only tips that don't cause discomfort for my baby ear canals 😃


Yes, I have often seen that since ASX they use the smallest nozzles, I also tried it and sat down great with them


----------



## BubisUK

MacAttack7 said:


> Wouldn't it be safer to wait then and buy a 2nd pair later when the problems are worked out?


Could be a safer bet, but also this could be the case, that the people who like them, simply like them the way they are, you never know


----------



## BubisUK

I did some listening comparison to CCA CA16, I listened to Amber Rubarth Sessions from the 17th ward, as it is one of my go to 'test' albums when I get new IEM.
KZ ASX blows CCA out of the water on micro detail (there were minute sounds, finger slips on strings, or breathing etc., that were completely lost on CA16), sound stage and positioning. For the cable believers, I even used the same cable for both IEM's  CA16 Sounded flat compared to KZ and 'muddier' and from looking to frequency graphs online for both of them it would seem that CA16 would be slightly better at high end. ASX is just amazing on binaural recordings.
If someone has CA16, loves how they fit (ASX it a tad bigger though) ASX is a worthy upgrade, that has a good punch on a low end, but is still able to get the minute details out of the music.
Will listen to Massive Attack Mezzanine back to back next and share my thoughts on that.
If I was a YouTuber, I would be hyping the 'f' out of ASX now


----------



## Slater

Mr.HiAudio said:


> with foam tips, the headphones will stick out like bananas from the ears.



A lot of people trim foam tips using a razor blade. You can make them as short as you want


----------



## Jonatan

Tomorrow my ASF's (silver/blue) are coming 
I'll be writing some impressions and testing then with all the tips i have


----------



## BubisUK

voicemaster said:


> It is to be expected. The ASF has a more mainstream sound as opposed to the ASX. Problem is not many people have both because they both sounds amazingly similar tuning wise, but still have obvious differences. The ASX offers a more realistic depth and imaging in binaural recording which also great for watching movie (make sure don't use "headphone" setting while watching 5.1ch movies).


So it is worth owning both, in your opinion? I am tempted to get the ASF on 11.11 now, as I liked the ASX that much


----------



## tmb821

I currently have the zs10 pro with a balanced cable. Will the asf be a noticeable upgrade? Nothing wrong with my 10p, I just have upgradeitis...😂


----------



## mbwilson111

BubisUK said:


> I did some listening comparison to CCA CA16, I listened to Amber Rubarth Sessions from the 17th ward, as it is one of my go to 'test' albums when I get new IEM.
> KZ ASX blows CCA out of the water on micro detail (there were minute sounds, finger slips on strings, or breathing etc., that were completely lost on CA16), sound stage and positioning. For the cable believers, I even used the same cable for both IEM's  CA16 Sounded flat compared to KZ and 'muddier' and from looking to frequency graphs online for both of them it would seem that CA16 would be slightly better at high end. ASX is just amazing on binaural recordings.
> If someone has CA16, loves how they fit (ASX it a tad bigger though) ASX is a worthy upgrade, that has a good punch on a low end, but is still able to get the minute details out of the music.
> Will listen to Massive Attack Mezzanine back to back next and share my thoughts on that.
> If I was a YouTuber, I would be hyping the 'f' out of ASX now



Those are the first two albums I test with.  With Amber Rubarth Sessions I know immediately if the iem or earbud is wired correctly ... not out of phase.    Mezzanine tells me all I need to know about the bass.  Also I often use Silver Swans - Forever - House of Blood to test my tolerance to the treble.  For vocals, especially male vocals, I listen to songs from artists that I have seen perform live in small venues.  I know how their voices should sound.


----------



## voicemaster

tmb821 said:


> I currently have the zs10 pro with a balanced cable. Will the asf be a noticeable upgrade? Nothing wrong with my 10p, I just have upgradeitis...😂


For me it is.


----------



## BubisUK

mbwilson111 said:


> Those are the first two albums I test with.  With Amber Rubarth Sessions I know immediately if the iem or earbud is wired correctly ... not out of phase.    Mezzanine tells me all I need to know about the bass.  Also I often use Silver Swans - Forever - House of Blood to test my tolerance to the treble.  For vocals, especially male vocals, I listen to songs from artists that I have seen perform live in small venues.  I know how their voices should sound.


Dont know what Silver Swans - Forever - House of Blood is, will have to find it to listen to now 😃 ASX destroyed CA16 on Mezzanine on all fronts.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The ASX has my attention, but as a fan of the ZSX and (currently) the ThieAudio Legacy 3, I'm torn.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mbwilson111 said:


> For vocals, especially male vocals, I listen to songs from artists that I have seen perform live in small venues.  I know how their voices should sound.



FWIW this is a really, really bad way of "judging" headphones, because of the immense difference in the way live sound is reproduced versus the way it's done on a recording. You have no idea what microphones were used, the production treatment, or what the temperament of the recording engineer was. Comparing your memory of live concerts to recordings just is not a good way to decide how accurate any speakers are. What you're hearing in the headphones might be absolutely nothing like what it sounded like on the studio monitors, but you think it's "right" because the coloration of the headphones matches what you recall of hearing it live.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 8, 2020)

I picked three in-ears in order to compare tonality and a "sense of realism" with Streisand's voice and the instruments contained in her "*second-hand rose*" recording.

The three in-ears were the *Sony MH755*, *KZ AS12* and *KZ ASF*.

The tonal balance on the MH755 was somewhat of a benchmark in this admittedly subjective experiment but I did this experiment knowing that there would be much to discuss regarding the differences in presentation despite the fact that both the AS12 and the ASF are all BA offerings from the same company. Both in-ears contain KZ's 29689 mid frequency BA (the ASF has the 29689s) and the 22955 lower frequency BA (the ASF has the 22955s). The ASF does contain an additional 31736s mid-high frequency BA that is absent in the AS12. I didn't focus on upper-treble because the high frequency BAs are not the same.



*AS12:*














*ASF:*









Here's the thing. The ASF and AS12 sound nothing alike. Not even close.

I picked these two in-ears because they sound markedly different.

The ASF presentation is as if you are in a very intimate venue (local pub that has a low ceiling). A venue that would be crowded if 30 people show up for the performance.

The AS12 presentation, on the other hand, is as if you are a few rows back from the stage at a much larger outdoor concert. The presentation is wide and open and almost as if each instrument is being presented via its own dedicated speaker at this event.

Great soundstage width and instrument separation on the AS12 but it is as if the AS12 is delivering the performance via onstage speakers.

This is not the case with the ASF. With the ASF it is almost as if Barbara does not have a microphone. Almost. It's just you (the listener),  Barbra and the performers. No microphones or speakers. Just a stage and the performers. Maybe Barbra is using a microphone. Maybe.




My Klipsch eartips have a very narrow opening and they give the vocals a somewhat concentrated delivery. It's fine but I prefer a wider aperture when it comes to eartips so *everything* has room to breathe. I need to hunt for better eartips.




Still, the presentations are night and day.
Focused (ASF) vs Diffuse  (AS12).

Bright, cheerful and wide open (AS12)
vs
warm, welcoming and intimate (ASF).

The tone is pleasant on both models but the end result is completely different. Despite the BAs having similar numeral classifications I don't deem all of the BAs characteristics to be identical.

Resolution? Sure.

Delivery? No.

The AS12 and ASF offer completely different experiences

This shift could usher in some great offerings from KZ. I'm trying to imagine the AS12 being offered with the new BAs and that's an exciting thought.

Maybe it would work. Maybe it wouldn't. I'd just love to hear the AS12's wide soundstage presentation with these new BAs . That might just be a welcome revelation if it's done right.

Bass presentation, vocal positioning and vocal warmth share some characteristics but, again, the delivery is decidedly different, even in more popular music. The intimate approach vs the wide open approach holds my interest.




Edit: Just listened again and yes it sounds as though Barbra is definitely using a microphone. Her vocals are more forward and projected beyond the nearby surrounding instruments. The instruments play a supporting role in the ASF whereas they are almost on equal footing with Barbra via the AS12. I like both presentations but they are simply very different. Almost apples to oranges different.


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 8, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> I picked three in-ears in order to compare tonality and a "sense of realism" with Streisand's voice and the instruments contained in her "second-hand rose" recording.
> 
> The three in-ears were the Sony MH755, KZ AS12 and KZ ASF.
> 
> ...



Yes, the ASX and ASF have that realism on their sound especially vocal that make you think you are in the same room as the singers. The ASX is even more noticeable than the ASF imho.
If you are okay with foam tips, I highly recommend this tips:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_ywdQFb6QN57A9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 8, 2020)

WOW!

Just, WOW!

I typically dislike foam eartips but upon your recommendation I attached a set of Comply T-100 eartips to the ASF and they've unexpectedly given me the best presentation thus far. Oddly enough they pull a slight bit of weight/body from the presentation without making the delivery sound unnatural.

Thanks for the recommendation. I never would have tried the foams on my own. I bought a set of Comply T-100 foams several years ago for a set of Klipsch earphones but I didn't like the synergy. The T-100 is near perfect for the ASF. Now I can put the T-100s to use.

*Comply T-100*






That being said, I think I'll put in an order for the Comply TSX-100 to see if the round foam eartip will improve the seal further and perhaps improve low frequency depth.

*Comply TSX-100*




Thanks again.

Corey Daye sounds surreal on the ASF with the foams.


----------



## Jonatan

voicemaster said:


> Yes, the ASX and ASF have that realism on their sound especially vocal that make you think you are in the same room as the singers. The ASX is even more noticeable than the ASF imho.
> If you are okay with foam tips, I highly recommend this tips:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RXKF79T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_ywdQFb6QN57A9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Do you think the KZ foam tips are also ok i have them lying around and dont know if i should order some other ones


----------



## voicemaster

Jonatan said:


> Do you think the KZ foam tips are also ok i have them lying around and dont know if i should order some other ones


I am not sure becauseI don't have KZ foam tips. I've used the cheap newbee foam tips and got a good result, but it does make the iem sticking out a bit. You can cut it and it will be the perfect length or buy the foam tips that I suggested earlier.


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> I am not sure becauseI don't have KZ foam tips. I've used the cheap newbee foam tips and got a good result, but it does make the iem sticking out a bit. You can cut it and it will be the perfect length or buy the foam tips that I suggested earlier.


Yay for Newbee foams! I use them on ALL my iems. Absolutely love em. Me and silicones just don't get along. My ear canals get sweaty with silicones and the iems eventually fall out. Love my Newbee foams on everything I own.


----------



## Gummybuns

Hi I'm kinda liking the ASX, sure it's bit of dark iem but aside from the imaging and details, it kinda looks like a glorified AS10 at least when I AB them side by side. It's not so bad. Comparing it to AS16, of course the latter will sound muddy but then again, KZ did tune AS16 differently. I guess my point is some might like ASX, some might not to each is own, right? 😅


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> Yay for Newbee foams! I use them on ALL my iems. Absolutely love em. Me and silicones just don't get along. My ear canals get sweaty with silicones and the iems eventually fall out. Love my Newbee foams on everything I own.


I used to use silicone tips but then at one point I couldn't stand it anymore. But the AZLA xelatech is a bit different tho, it doesn't irritate my ears even after long hours (6+ hours) of usage.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I've had an issue with Xelastec warping. It's weird but the material seems to almost "melt" after a little while.


----------



## BubisUK

Pulled a triger on ASF, for 41$ could not resist the temptation 😃


----------



## MacAttack7

BubisUK said:


> Pulled a triger on ASF, for 41$ could not resist the temptation 😃


How do I get it for $41?


----------



## BubisUK

MacAttack7 said:


> How do I get it for $41?


I used a 3$ coupon and -10% discount in coins in Nicehck audio store.


----------



## shinewallace

Mr.HiAudio said:


> KZ ASX came and what can I say: they are very muddy, and it's simply impossible to listen to them. too dense and intrusive sound, female vocals acquire a masculine accent, a lot of bass (although this can be recorded as a plus). the fit is comfortable, you need to use attachments one size smaller. to be honest, they aren't even worth half their cost. it's just a failure...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



At the beginning, I had the same feeling as yours... However, after running the ASX for few days, it seemed to be better.
Don't know whether you believe it or not, ASX seems that it needs to be burnt-in for the units to warm up.........


----------



## chinerino

Some thoughts on the KZ EDX!https://www.perrivanaudio.com/post/kz-edx-review


----------



## Jonatan

so my asf's just came 
an i absolutely love them just wow 
im going to write some things about them when i have some time but at a first glance they are fenomenal for me
used them with kz foam tips


----------



## Jonatan

the fit is great after 2 hours of music and online classes i feel nothing no strain no pain 
i could forget about them


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 9, 2020)

ASF are coming...
Sounds so much better than ASX
Better housing and material quality than ASX.
the body is made of more durable plastic, and the faceplate is slightly heavier, but just as pleasant to the touch. I just don't understand the logic of how it is in


----------



## PhonoPhi

Now, we seem to collect about all  diverse and polar and controversial opinions on ASX and ASF  

My hat off to KZ!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

FWIW there is absolutely no reality in which balanced armatures "burn in." 

It's dubious enough to claim that dynamic drivers do, but BA absolute do not.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SomeGuyDude said:


> FWIW there is absolutely no reality in which balanced armatures "burn in."
> 
> It's dubious enough to claim that dynamic drivers do, but BA absolute do not.


When you change a string on a guitar or violin, does it sound the same right away?

Having said this, I do believe that the brain adjustment plays a significant (if not a major) role in the "burn-in" effect.


----------



## seanwee (Nov 9, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> When you change a string on a guitar or violin, does it sound the same right away?
> 
> Having said this, I do believe that the brain adjustment plays a significant (if not a major) role in the "burn-in" effect.


I've had the chance to try out the burn in myth/fact when getting multiple pairs of the same iem and its a bit of both.

While brain burn-in is a very real and significant thing, there is real burn in as well but the effect is minor in most iems but can be major in some. Especially when drivers made of rigid materials are concerned. Its most noticeable when sibilance is concerned but that usually goes away in a few short hours, not hundreds of hours.

That said, i've heard some iems that sound vastly different after hundreds of hours of use compared to one with just several hours of use, namely my JVC FXH-30. I got a pair in 2016 and another as a spare in 2019 and they sounded very very different.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

PhonoPhi said:


> When you change a string on a guitar or violin, does it sound the same right away?
> 
> Having said this, I do believe that the brain adjustment plays a significant (if not a major) role in the "burn-in" effect.



There are many reasons why this is a terrible analogy but I don't feel like getting into this discussion again. The point is, no, they do not burn in. You adjust to their sound. That's all.

I'm reminded of people insisting their Audeze headphones sounded different after burn-in, only to be informed that Audeze does burn-in at the factory before shipping them out.

It ain't real. End of story.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SomeGuyDude said:


> I'm reminded of people insisting their Audeze headphones sounded different after burn-in, only to be informed that Audeze does burn-in at the factory before shipping them out.


How long do audeze burn in? They probably say that its not enough and you need at least 10x that amount lol.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SomeGuyDude said:


> There are many reasons why this is a terrible analogy but I don't feel like getting into this discussion again. The point is, no, they do not burn in. You adjust to their sound. That's all.
> 
> I'm reminded of people insisting their Audeze headphones sounded different after burn-in, only to be informed that Audeze does burn-in at the factory before shipping them out.
> 
> It ain't real. End of story.


If you do not "feel to discuss" - why bother to comment, it is not about your feelings here, sorry.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

PhonoPhi said:


> If you do not "feel to discuss" - why bother to comment, it is not about your feelings here, sorry.



Because it's a boatload of typing that you aren't going to listen to anyway. I've gone into the burn-in myth a million times and I'm tired of typing it all out every single time. This is my last post on the matter. 

Back on track, the ZAX has me a little perplexed at the moment, and I'm wondering if KZ is going to get into anything beyond just sticking more drivers in there. One reason I liked the ZSX was that it was actually putting more effort into tuning. The difference between the ZSX and ZAX just seems to be cramming another BA per side.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RikudouGoku said:


> How long do audeze burn in? They probably say that its not enough and you need at least 10x that amount lol.



I forget, I think it was like 80 hours of pink noise? It's not on the website anymore.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 9, 2020)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Because it's a boatload of typing that you aren't going to listen to anyway. I've gone into the burn-in myth a million times and I'm tired of typing it all out every single time. This is my last post on the matter.
> 
> Back on track, the ZAX has me a little perplexed at the moment, and I'm wondering if KZ is going to get into anything beyond just sticking more drivers in there. One reason I liked the ZSX was that it was actually putting more effort into tuning. The difference between the ZSX and ZAX just seems to be cramming another BA per side.


Arguably, it is very tiring to hear opinions presented as an absolute truth only in their form not substance...

Back to KZ, I found ZAX to be a significant improvement on ZSX for me, so I did not get back to ZSX (and C12) for the last couple of months.


----------



## Groovistico

Ordered ASF blindly. Then saw crinacle graph here and started reading this thread. Read it so much that I feel I want also to wright something about them, once I got them.

First, the fit is great (for my more or less average ears). Other IEM I had (4 pairs) were always traveling in ear canal a little, you always wonder if you have to push them inside more or not and so on. These KZ just sit in the place and thats it. No adjustment is needed. They seal even with shortened stock tips. What is great is that they do not change position in the canal and sound on the go, like other earphones do.

With stock tips, the sound was a bit weird, as graph indicates, with a lot of bass and upper treble pushed down a bit. But I didn't hear them as muffled or muddy or veiled. The details were there, I think they have a good resolution. I tried some other tips and found the ones that come with Fiio f9se, grey with red inside and wider bore, make the sound better. They draw treble up and calm mid-bass a little. The sound becomes more balanced that way. They are not great, because the bass is still thick and in treble these tips bring the treble up, including lower part of it, which already was enough, like 5-6kHz area becomes a little shouty at some records. But they are still very enjoyable. Resolution is good while treble is not fatiguing. Make accent on voices. The bass is biger than it should be, but not as big as to distract you all the time. Some people say they have small or "intimate" soundstage. I feel, it is quite ok (with Fiio tips), they don't play just in your head. Things that should go to the left or right - going there. The width is comparable to Fiio f9se or Hifiman re-400. Some sounds apear on different hight as well.
Also, tried them with some very wide bore tips. That way the bass comes down seriously, they become way to thin. But the thing is, sound is quite adjustable by tips. People with tons of them can probably find desired sound.

Overall, at one side, I'm glad I like and able to enjoy the sound with wide range of music. After seeing the graph I thought I have ordered crap. On the other side, I feel with these drivers it was quite possible to make really great sounding neutral earphones. Unfortunately, manufacturers seem to adress "hobbyists", who have tons of earphones using them as sort of different EQ presets. Really, they should leave that big bass thing to hybrids and make at least BA line more neutral, for people who want to enjoy music in great sound quality. But they keep making "interesting" sounding earphones, when they should do (at least some models) accurare.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

And this is why charts are generally bogus. Listen with your ears, not your eyes!


----------



## Groovistico

I think, people who only have stock tips, will hear something similar to measurements.


----------



## voicemaster

Groovistico said:


> Ordered ASF blindly. Then saw crinacle graph here and started reading this thread. Read it so much that I feel I want also to wright something about them, once I got them.
> 
> First, the fit is great (for my more or less average ears). Other IEM I had (4 pairs) were always traveling in ear canal a little, you always wonder if you have to push them inside more or not and so on. These KZ just sit in the place and thats it. No adjustment is needed. They seal even with shortened stock tips. What is great is that they do not change position in the canal and sound on the go, like other earphones do.
> 
> ...


Try some foam tips if you haven't.


----------



## voicemaster

Groovistico said:


> I think, people who only have stock tips, will hear something similar to measurements.


That's why I said it over and over again that the stock white tips are trash. Complete utter garbage.


----------



## nraymond

voicemaster said:


> That's why I said it over and over again that the stock white tips are trash. Complete utter garbage.



I've always gotten the best fit and sound with aftermarket tips on all my earphones. Sometimes the difference is small (i.e. stock tips aren't bad), sometimes it's large (stock tips are terrible). Knowing that means that I have to take a lot of reviews and graphs with a grain of salt, because I don't know if a) the stock tips are the best for the earphones in question or b) if the stock tips would be best for the reviewer (or me). As a result, the reviews that I value the most are the ones where reviewers try different tips, talk about them and the effect on fit and sound. Then I try to triangulate that with my experiences to come up with a personal guesstimate on what I think I'll experience.


----------



## MacAttack7

Here's the newest review:
https://www.audioreviews.org/kz-asf-review-kmm/


----------



## Asound

Now I am thinking of getting some foam tips too. I would like to go with Inairs, mostly cause I can get them rather quickly and they are not super expensive. Also I had them before and I liked them.

They have a size that fits the ZSX and a size that does fit the ATE and ZS10 for example. They do not tell you the inner diameter though. Does anybody know if one of these should fit the ASX?

If there are other must have foam tips, I am open for suggestions. Allthough I have no interest into ordering something from china again, cause it will likely arrive two weeks after the ASX.


----------



## Viber

MacAttack7 said:


> Here's the newest review:
> https://www.audioreviews.org/kz-asf-review-kmm/



lol, the guy went all in...
I kinda find it hard to believe that the ASF score 1/5 or lower in every parameter.
Even earphones which disappointed me the most weren't this bad.  

According to him the ASF are worse than the ZS3. 

But it is possible i guess...


----------



## voicemaster

*** no


Viber said:


> lol, the guy went all in...
> I kinda find it hard to believe that the ASF score 1/5 or lower in every parameter.
> Even earphones which disappointed me the most weren't this bad.
> 
> ...


*** no! I have zs3 and the asf sound miles better than that. The zs3 is okay but its the old KZ sound (dark and very recessed vocal)


----------



## Asound

Why are the reviews so polarising? Is there a massive problem with the qc?

So far we either had a "it is their best iem" and "stay away, it is horrible". Nothing in between. That does not feel normal.


----------



## voicemaster

Asound said:


> Why are the reviews so polarising? Is there a massive problem with the qc?
> 
> So far we either had a "it is their best iem" and "stay away, it is horrible". Nothing in between. That does not feel normal.


It can either be bad fit or they got a lemon. The ASX is more prone for QC problem as they have to solder so many BA drivers to the crossover board and such. The tubing attachment can also be a problem I think. Even on my ASX, the seams on the extended lip was sharp and uneven so I have to sand it down a little to smoothen it out. My ASF also has cosmetic problem where there is no black coating on some part on the faceplate. None of these affect the sound tho.


----------



## purplesun

Question:
Which other KZ iems has a shell that is exactly like the ones on ASF & ASX?
I want to get something cheap to do a test fitting, and decide if ASX or ASF will be comfortable for my ears.

Thanks.


----------



## MacAttack7

Asound said:


> Why are the reviews so polarising? Is there a massive problem with the qc?
> 
> So far we either had a "it is their best iem" and "stay away, it is horrible". Nothing in between. That does not feel normal.


That what I was thinking......afraid to order another one with these strange opposing opinions.
He hates the lows. I don't notice anything wrong with them. In fact that was probably the first thing I liked when I listened to them.
He says female vocals are muffled. I say nope, not even close. They are quite clear and forward to me.
He says male vocals are nasal and wonky. I say nope, not hearing this at all.
He says  Cymbal strikes and hi-hats are barely registered. I think maybe these sounds could be brighter...not sure.
Not experienced enough to comment on his other points.


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> Question:
> Which other KZ iems has a shell that is exactly like the ones on ASF & ASX?
> I want to get something cheap to do a test fitting, and decide if ASX or ASF will be comfortable for my ears.
> 
> Thanks.


CA16 iirc but I am not too sure.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> *** no
> 
> *** no! I have zs3 and the asf sound miles better than that. The zs3 is okay but its the old KZ sound (dark and very recessed vocal)



He didn't actually say it.  I'm saying if the zs3 were 60$ I couldn't score it 1/5 in every aspect.  
There has to be something good about the ASF, Kz didnt release a bad iem for years now.


----------



## purplesun (Nov 9, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> CA16 iirc but I am not too sure.


Thanks, CA16's has been on my radar anyway. I'll probably get that.

EDIT:
So went looking for CA16, and ordered ASF 
That plan lasted all of 10 minutes!


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> When you change a string on a guitar or violin, does it sound the same right away?
> 
> Having said this, I do believe that the brain adjustment plays a significant (if not a major) role in the "burn-in" effect.



guitar or violin strings would sound different from new over time because it will trap sweat and corode/deteriorate that it would sound dampened (compared to newly fresh out of the pack) 

but if you're using coated strings like, for say, Elixirs, then no, they would not change over time.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 9, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> That's why I said it over and over again that the stock white tips are trash. Complete utter garbage.



I understand your sentiment but I respectively disagree. I think that KZ actually spent a good amount of time designing the included eartips (with ASF/ASX) instead of just throwing in the standard eartips they've been including for the last three years. Their standard-issue eartips would negatively effect the fit and comfort of the ASF/ASX. KZ needed to design an eartip that is very soft with a narrow collar so it could slip in to the ear canal without negatively effecting the ASF/ASX glove-like fit. My ASF fits like a custom in-ear. It doesn't budge. 

When I attach the Comply foams the ASF protrudes a bit. It's not uncomfortable but the ASF no longer fits me like a made-to-order custom in-ear. 



voicemaster said:


> *** no
> 
> *** no! I have zs3 and the asf sound miles better than that. The zs3 is okay but its the old KZ sound (dark and very recessed vocal)






Asound said:


> Why are the reviews so polarising? Is there a massive problem with the qc?
> 
> So far we either had a "it is their best iem" and "stay away, it is horrible". Nothing in between. That does not feel normal.






voicemaster said:


> It can either be bad fit or they got a lemon.
> 
> None of these affect the sound tho.



It is possible that it is a quality control issue. I don't own multiple sets so I can't comment regarding output consistency but I do have a theory that may be plausible.



MacAttack7 said:


> That what I was thinking......afraid to order another one with these strange opposing opinions.
> He hates the lows. I don't notice anything wrong with them. In fact that was probably the first thing I liked when I listened to them.
> He says female vocals are muffled. I say nope, not even close. They are quite clear and forward to me.
> He says male vocals are nasal and wonky. I say nope, not hearing this at all.
> ...



Here is my theory.

The ASF has a sound signature that is somewhat reminiscent of the ZS3 with big bass, a natural-to-borderline shouty midrange and rolled off treble. In addition, the ZS3 fit like a glove.  One of the quirks of the ZS3 was how much the eartip seal could effect the bass response. If you had an absolute airtight seal the bass could overwhelm the midrange and push the already rolled off treble in to oblivion. If the person experiencing that feedback from the ZS3 would step down a size (from medium to small or from large to medium) the bass would still come through full but less boomy. This in turn would allow the midrange to come forward a bit more and the lower treble would give the ZS3 a slight sense of air with improved separation.

One eartip provides a muffled presentation while another eartip provides the manufacturers intended more natural presentation. Same earphone just a different eartip.

I think we may be revisiting the same exact issue with the ASF/ASX because the fit is even more glove-like, the nozzle goes deep into the canal and the soft eartip contours to the shape of your ear canal giving an airtight seal. One person hears a muffled mess while another person hears a warm signature with natural tones and fatigue-free treble response.

Given the ASF/ASX glove-like fit and design it was destined to be a controversial in-ear from the start. This is why I believe KZ spent time designing the eartip specifically for these models. I haven't seen this eartip on any other KZ (please alert me if I am incorrect) though I imagine they may have used it on the ZSX (not sure).

For me, the Comply T-100 thins the low frequency to where the sub-bass is non-existent, the Klipsch oval tips condense the midrange negatively while still other eartips effect the ASF delivery to one degree or another.

The eartip is king in the *ear* of the beholder.

Still enjoying my ASF regardless.


----------



## PhonoPhi

chinmie said:


> guitar or violin strings would sound different from new over time because it will trap sweat and corode/deteriorate that it would sound dampened (compared to newly fresh out of the pack)
> 
> but if you're using coated strings like, for say, Elixirs, then no, they would not change over time.



I can definitely tell about violin strings - they are under very strong tension, so the new strings set into their pitch for at least a day or so, and they may get their best sound only few days later, after which they slowly decay in performance. Non-wound steel strings settle faster but they are nowadays used largely for E.

While not directly under tension, BA drivers may also require some time to settle to their stationary state with all the moving components and friction settling into an equilibrium state.


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> I can definitely tell about violin strings - they are under very strong tension, so the new strings set into their pitch for at least a day or so, and they may get their best sound only few days later, after which they slowly decay in performance. Non-wound steel strings settle faster but they are nowadays used largely for E.
> 
> While not directly under tension, BA drivers may also require some time to settle to their stationary state with all the moving components and friction settling into an equilibrium state.



yup, similar to nylon guitar strings, they would go slight out of tune for the first day or two before they stretched. i can't play the violin past beginner level    but I'm fortunate enough to be able to tune them.

i can't comment on BA driver burn in, because i haven't yet found (at least on sets that i have tried from fresh out of the box) any changes on sound after some playtime.. i can't say there are no BA burn in out there, but i haven't experienced them myself. 

also to be considered that changes in sound from new can also be the result of changes on the tuning filters (they might absorb moistures) and also the settling in of position (might be that after a few days it finally found sweet spot or best way of fitting in the the ears). 

BA drivers though, i found to be usually much more tip dependent than DDs, so that's where i focused the most to find the right one for them


----------



## voicemaster

Alpha Whale said:


> I understand your sentiment but I respectively disagree. I think that KZ actually spent a good amount of time designing the included eartips (with ASF/ASX) instead of just throwing in the standard eartips they've been including for the last three years. Their standard-issue eartips would negatively effect the fit and comfort of the ASF/ASX. KZ needed to design an eartip that is very soft with a narrow collar so it could slip in to the ear canal without negatively effecting the ASF/ASX glove-like fit. My ASF fits like a custom in-ear. It doesn't budge.
> 
> When I attach the Comply foams the ASF protrudes a bit. It's not uncomfortable but the ASF no longer fits me like a made-to-order custom in-ear.
> 
> ...



You can either cut the foam tips (shorten it) or buy the foam tips that I mentioned earlier.


----------



## alamnp

ehmmm judging from CA16 I have received, I have a clue that they send the ear tip from CCA... Yep, they suck big time... I had to buy Spinfit CP800 for it...

I had to literally buy 7 different eartips and wasted $30 to get the best fit for CA16...

ASX/ASF seemed to go down this path.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 9, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> I understand your sentiment but I respectively disagree. I think that KZ actually spent a good amount of time designing the included eartips (with ASF/ASX) instead of just throwing in the standard eartips they've been including for the last three years. Their standard-issue eartips would negatively effect the fit and comfort of the ASF/ASX. KZ needed to design an eartip that is very soft with a narrow collar so it could slip in to the ear canal without negatively effecting the ASF/ASX glove-like fit. My ASF fits like a custom in-ear. It doesn't budge.
> 
> When I attach the Comply foams the ASF protrudes a bit. It's not uncomfortable but the ASF no longer fits me like a made-to-order custom in-ear.
> 
> ...




Good points. Eartips can make or break an IEM -> see case in point BLON BL-03 with the too short stock eartips, which necessitate a lot to use aftermarket longer tips/spacer mods due to the overly short nozzle. I think eartips have a much bigger effect on an IEM than burn in or cable changes. I always try a few pairs of aftermarket eartips on an IEM before giving up on a bad sounding IEM. Though, I think we are the minority that are quite hardcore about this hobby and have multiple eartips lying about and know about tip rolling. I can see that vast majority of lay consumers will probably not do eartip rolling and will just use whatever is OOTB.

Also as we all have different ear anatomies, an aftermarket eartip that fits one perfectly may sound or fit like crap for another, YMMV. I dunno if there's a good way around this, but I try to do A/B testing/reviews as far as possible with only the stock accessories, as that is probably what most people will be using when they open the box. And at least we will all be using a common baseline eartip  for discussion purposes. After reviewing, just for casual music listening, I swap back my favourite ear tips and cables on the IEM.

The strange thing about the ASX and ASF is that the treble looks quite rolled off already on graphs. And if u guys are recommending foams with it, doesn't that tame the already tamed treble (in general foam tames upper frequencies)?





https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...-enjoy-the-music.934980/page-30#post-15775831

Well on to another area, burn in is a very controversial subject here, I respect both camps, but in this above thread, james444 showed some small measured changes from zero hours to 60 minutes with burn in of the iBasso IT00, which is a single DD set. I know it ain't a BA set, and brain burn in definitely plays a part too, but quite interesting measurements here!


----------



## brianforever (Nov 9, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> The zax and asf are in the same price bracket. If you ask me which one I would get, I would get the asf, but the fit is different in the asf. It is bigger and has custom iem body style which won't fit some people at all. While the zax is smaller and easier to fit for most people's ears.


Haha @voicemaster Thanks for the advice, too late, already ordered the KZ ZAX, otw to me as we speak 

but besides the ill fit, why choose the KZ ASF since you point out the negatives on them?


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 9, 2020)

brianforever said:


> Haha @voicemaster Thanks for the advice, too late, already ordered the KZ ZAX, otw to me as we speak
> 
> but besides the ill fit, why choose the KZ ASF since you point out the negatives on them?


The negative is the fit which is really differ from person to person because the ASF body is larger than the ZAX and has custom shell type body which won't fit for some people. But, if the ASX fit your ears, it will fit much better than the ZAX. In term of sound, the ASF has better imaging and depth, instrument separation and more intimate vocal. I compared them extensively before and whenever I am going back to the ZAX, I can hear the overly tuned treble and prefer the treble on the ASF. Still love both, but the ZAX started to become bench warmer.


----------



## Groovistico

voicemaster said:


> Try some foam tips if you haven't.


I only have some chinese foams from ali. But I think the treble is better with Fiio tips.



nraymond said:


> I've always gotten the best fit and sound with aftermarket tips on all my earphones. Sometimes the difference is small (i.e. stock tips aren't bad), sometimes it's large (stock tips are terrible). Knowing that means that I have to take a lot of reviews and graphs with a grain of salt, because I don't know if a) the stock tips are the best for the earphones in question or b) if the stock tips would be best for the reviewer (or me). As a result, the reviews that I value the most are the ones where reviewers try different tips, talk about them and the effect on fit and sound. Then I try to triangulate that with my experiences to come up with a personal guesstimate on what I think I'll experience.


Manufacturers should tune their sound well with the tips they supply. Not everybody has a lot of their own tips! Sure, you can order after market tips, but you can't predict the sound. For example, Fiio bigger bore tips I use bring a lot of unwanted mid bass on f9se. On KZs they do the opposite thing. So how many tips one will have to order to get the best sound? How do you even choose what to order, if you don't have any tips but the stock?



MacAttack7 said:


> Here's the newest review:
> https://www.audioreviews.org/kz-asf-review-kmm/


Well, ASF do have a strange frequency response and manufacturer should tune them more balanced. But some things the review say makes me wonder, if they listened to it. The vocals sound clear and open, right from the start even with stock tips. Looks like they just discribing the frequency graph and imagine the sound... 


I'll add this picture of hearing test made on ASF. Its not very accurate, but gives an example of what I hear with my ears. Not the most neutral, but quite different from the graph.


----------



## BubisUK

Groovistico said:


> I only have some chinese foams from ali. But I think the treble is better with Fiio tips.
> 
> 
> Manufacturers should tune their sound well with the tips they supply. Not everybody has a lot of their own tips! Sure, you can order after market tips, but you can't predict the sound. For example, Fiio bigger bore tips I use bring a lot of unwanted mid bass on f9se. On KZs they do the opposite thing. So how many tips one will have to order to get the best sound? How do you even choose what to order, if you don't have any tips but the stock?
> ...


You can not solely rely on the graphs as I have read somewhere, don't remember where now, that depending on the testing equipment there is a drop in around 8-10k region when in real life, there is no such drop. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can give his opinion on this  And that trebble region can be affected by the depth of insertion in the ear canal as well. There are a lot of variables in this game


----------



## seanwee

BubisUK said:


> You can not solely rely on the graphs as I have read somewhere, don't remember where now, that depending on the testing equipment there is a drop in around 8-10k region when in real life, there is no such drop. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can give his opinion on this  And that trebble region can be affected by the depth of insertion in the ear canal as well. There are a lot of variables in this game


Yes, measurements are useful at high frequencies but if you see wierd spikes/dips in the higher frequencies it's likely a resonance peak.


----------



## Groovistico

BubisUK said:


> You can not solely rely on the graphs as I have read somewhere, don't remember where now, that depending on the testing equipment there is a drop in around 8-10k region when in real life, there is no such drop. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can give his opinion on this  And that trebble region can be affected by the depth of insertion in the ear canal as well. There are a lot of variables in this game


The measurements are made using one tips, I use another, thats all. Stock tips and some others do have a treble roll off, maybe not as much as 10db thou. But even with roll off you can hear some detail, it's just a bit quiet and tonal balance is not quite right. That way they are more "smooth".


----------



## BubisUK

Groovistico said:


> The measurements are made using one tips, I use another, thats all. Stock tips and some others do have a treble roll off, maybe not as much as 10db thou. But even with roll off you can hear some detail, it's just a bit quiet and tonal balance is not quite right. That way they are more "smooth".


I am not that ocd about something not being a bit off of some ideal measurement. For me ASX is easily in top 3 from what iem's I have heard so farr


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

I think I'll skip these asf/x this time. I'd rather buy a good single DD, like Moondrop SSP/Starfield.


----------



## brianforever

voicemaster said:


> The negative is the fit which is really differ from person to person because the ASF body is larger than the ZAX and has custom shell type body which won't fit for some people. But, if the ASX fit your ears, it will fit much better than the ZAX. In term of sound, the ASF has better imaging and depth, instrument separation and more intimate vocal. I compared them extensively before and whenever I am going back to the ZAX, I can hear the overly tuned treble and prefer the treble on the ASF. Still love both, but the ZAX started to become bench warmer.


ICIC Thanks for the insight Bro


----------



## richario

Just got hold of my ASF and BT20s pro, really happy with both. Very early, but ASF seem like exactly what I was hoping for - an evolution of the AS10. These keep a similar signature - warm, deep but fast bass, and a rolled off treble. They are also similarly easy to drive and sound great with the BT20s & pro.

Fit was a bit weird at first, but once I was used to them they fit well. At first I ditched the included eartips thinking they looked like garbage and didn't fit well, switching to Starlines. I have now switched back though - the tips don't feel like they are sealing, but actually seal really well and give great bass extension.

Early days yet but this could dethrone the AS10 from being my favourite KZ to date!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MacAttack7 said:


> That what I was thinking......afraid to order another one with these strange opposing opinions.
> He hates the lows. I don't notice anything wrong with them. In fact that was probably the first thing I liked when I listened to them.
> He says female vocals are muffled. I say nope, not even close. They are quite clear and forward to me.
> He says male vocals are nasal and wonky. I say nope, not hearing this at all.
> ...



There are many, many reviewers (even well respected ones) who end up with totally off-base reviews on IEMs because they don't take the time to get them with proper fit.


----------



## Crandall

seanwee said:


> I've had the chance to try out the burn in myth/fact when getting multiple pairs of the same iem and its a bit of both.
> 
> While brain burn-in is a very real and significant thing, there is real burn in as well but the effect is minor in most iems but can be major in some. Especially when drivers made of rigid materials are concerned. Its most noticeable when sibilance is concerned but that usually goes away in a few short hours, not hundreds of hours.
> 
> That said, i've heard some iems that sound vastly different after hundreds of hours of use compared to one with just several hours of use, namely my JVC FXH-30. I got a pair in 2016 and another as a spare in 2019 and they sounded very very different.



It's a lot more likely that your JVC FXH-30 differences were just unit variance, especially when sold 3 years apart. Were you able to test them blindly where you marked them New/Old, had someone mix them up, then tested them back and forth without being able to look at which was marked as New or Old?

The mental burn in thing is so very significant. When I first got my AS10, I thought they sounded great, and didn't notice any of the Steely/Grainy treble issues people talk about. I used them for about 8 hours a day while working for a few months. Then I got my ZSX and started listening to those for about a month because they sounded really great.

On a trip I went back to AS10 and at first they sounded horrible, like each crash cymbal hit was accompanied by rubbing sandpaper on it. After a day or two of sticking with it on that trip, the issues seemed to have subsided and I didn't really notice it as much any more. I started using the ZSX again at home and it was like switching from 720p to 1080p again on a monitor.


----------



## seanwee

Crandall said:


> It's a lot more likely that your JVC FXH-30 differences were just unit variance, especially when sold 3 years apart. Were you able to test them blindly where you marked them New/Old, had someone mix them up, then tested them back and forth without being able to look at which was marked as New or Old?


They new pair eventually settled in to have a similar sound to the old pair so that rules out unit variance.

And blind testing wasn't necessary as they sounded completely different.



Crandall said:


> The mental burn in thing is so very significant. When I first got my AS10, I thought they sounded great, and didn't notice any of the Steely/Grainy treble issues people talk about. I used them for about 8 hours a day while working for a few months. Then I got my ZSX and started listening to those for about a month because they sounded really great.
> 
> On a trip I went back to AS10 and at first they sounded horrible, like each crash cymbal hit was accompanied by rubbing sandpaper on it. After a day or two of sticking with it on that trip, the issues seemed to have subsided and I didn't really notice it as much any more. I started using the ZSX again at home and it was like switching from 720p to 1080p again on a monitor.


100% agree. I've had to reset several people's brain burn in by lending them a pair of my iems for a week. They couldn't believe they liked their old pair post reset.


----------



## Keputs

Just want to butt in here, but you can try the ASXs and ASFs of the world on this album in Dolby Atmos on Tidal. I'm enjoying the details - on my good 'ol ZSX!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Keputs said:


> Just want to butt in here, but you can try the ASXs and ASFs of the world on this album in Dolby Atmos on Tidal. I'm enjoying the details - on my good 'ol ZSX!



The ZSX really continues to be a superstar in the IEM world, to me. I just picked up the Philips X3 as my desktop daily driver and the ZSX is a flawless companion.


----------



## MacAttack7

Anyone know of a budget upgrade cable for the ASF?
Would like 4-core or 8-core with minimal tangle and close-to-zero microphonics.
The one it came with is too tangly.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 10, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Good points. Eartips can make or break an IEM -> see case in point BLON BL-03 with the too short stock eartips, which necessitate a lot to use aftermarket longer tips/spacer mods due to the overly short nozzle. I think eartips have a much bigger effect on an IEM than burn in or cable changes. I always try a few pairs of aftermarket eartips on an IEM before giving up on a bad sounding IEM. Though, I think we are the minority that are quite hardcore about this hobby and have multiple eartips lying about and know about tip rolling. I can see that vast majority of lay consumers will probably not do eartip rolling and will just use whatever is OOTB.
> 
> Also as we all have different ear anatomies, an aftermarket eartip that fits one perfectly may sound or fit like crap for another, YMMV. I dunno if there's a good way around this, but I try to do A/B testing/reviews as far as possible with only the stock accessories, as that is probably what most people will be using when they open the box. And at least we will all be using a common baseline eartip  for discussion purposes. After reviewing, just for casual music listening, I swap back my favourite ear tips and cables on the IEM.
> 
> ...



Actually looks like I was mistaken about the origination of the ASF eartips when I wrote...



> I think that KZ actually spent a good amount of time designing the included eartips (with ASF/ASX) instead of just throwing in the standard eartips they've been including for the last three years. Their standard-issue eartips would negatively effect the fit and comfort of the ASF/ASX. KZ needed to design an eartip that is very soft with a narrow collar so it could slip in to the ear canal without negatively effecting the ASF/ASX glove-like fit. My ASF fits like a custom in-ear. It doesn't budge.



It looks like these eartips were also offered on the CA16. I'm guessing its probably for similar reasons that they've been offered on the ASF/ASX.







Can anyone comment as to whether or not the CA16 has a glove-like fit? Just curious.

Also, thus far my favorite eartips for the ASF are the eartips included on my Rock Zircon.







Listening to Federico Aubele's "Postales" on the ASF.

The bass has great body and weight but it's still very clean. It has slightly slower decay than typical BA bass. It's definitely not as dry as some BA bass can be. It's actually quite "meaty". Reminiscent of BA10-like bass with good sub-bass depth and the right amount of mid-bass punch. It appears that these BA drivers are aiming to further bridge the gap between BA and DD bass delivery. Consider me impressed.






MacAttack7 said:


> Anyone know of a budget upgrade cable for the ASF?
> Would like 4-core or 8-core with minimal tangle and close-to-zero microphonics.
> The one it came with is too tangly.



This is what I am using. Good cable! It compliments the silver/blue ASF, aesthetically. $18 on Amazon and $15 on AliExpress.






https://www.amazon.com/Detachable-Upgrade-Earphone-Replacement-Standard/dp/B07S6SV5LS


----------



## SomeGuyDude

MacAttack7 said:


> Anyone know of a budget upgrade cable for the ASF?
> Would like 4-core or 8-core with minimal tangle and close-to-zero microphonics.
> The one it came with is too tangly.



Tripowin has tons. I've been using their balanced for ages. Can recommend highly.


----------



## astermk

Alpha Whale said:


> Actually looks like I was mistaken about the origination of the ASF eartips.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The CA16 do fit like a glove, they follow the contours of at least my ear extremely well. Incredibly comfortable IEM. The ear tips are absolute garbage though.


----------



## MacAttack7

Alpha Whale said:


> This is what I am using. Good cable! It compliments the silver/blue ASF, aesthetically.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does QDC automatically mean it's 0.75, not 0.78?
Also is C-type the same as QDC?


----------



## PhonoPhi

MacAttack7 said:


> Does QDC automatically mean it's 0.75, not 0.78?
> Also is C-type the same as QDC?


Original QDC connectors purportedly have a different polarity. Currently, QDC and C-type are synonymous. 

I got recently a couple of couples (0.75 and 0.78) from TRN - I can't see any difference whatsoever in connectors and cable fit to different KZ and non-KZ.
Curiously, one of 0.78 cables had pins spread to be diverging rather than parallel, so they could fit 0.78 better  
(I am quite sure that the guys who are producing and selling cables laugh at cable consumers and connoisseurs quite a bit )


----------



## BubisUK

PhonoPhi said:


> Original QDC connectors purportedly have a different polarity. Currently, QDC and C-type are synonymous.
> 
> I got recently a couple of couples (0.75 and 0.78) from TRN - I can't see any difference whatsoever in connectors and cable fit to different KZ and non-KZ.
> Curiously, one of 0.78 cables had pins spread to be diverging rather than parallel, so they could fit 0.78 better
> (I am quite sure that the guys who are producing and selling cables laugh at cable consumers and connoisseurs quite a bit )


I use 0.78 on all my iem's, even if they need 0.75, never noticed any difference, they fit perfectly fine


----------



## Viber

+1 for Rock Zircon eartips.  the only good thing to come out of those crappy earphones.


----------



## Slater (Nov 10, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> Reminiscent of BA10-like bass with good sub-bass depth and the right amount of mid-bass punch.



How would you compare the BA10 to the ASF (ignoring the differences in fit and age ie ‘newer is always better’)?

I was planning on getting a BA10 during 11.11, but could get the ASF instead.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 10, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Original QDC connectors purportedly have a different polarity. Currently, QDC and C-type are synonymous.
> 
> I got recently a couple of couples (0.75 and 0.78) from TRN - I can't see any difference whatsoever in connectors and cable fit to different KZ and non-KZ.
> Curiously, one of 0.78 cables had pins spread to be diverging rather than parallel, so they could fit 0.78 better





BubisUK said:


> I use 0.78 on all my iem's, even if they need 0.75, never noticed any difference, they fit perfectly fine



I can tell you that the female connectors on my first set of AS12's suffered cracks. It was the resin/plastic surround of the connector. The crack appeared near the base of the connectors on both sides. I never connected the stock (0.75) cable to the AS12's. I only connected a C-type/QDC upgrade cable with 0.78mm pins to the AS12 and I only removed it to see if the connector was compromised.

It was.

I'll have to post some pictures at a later date but I was not happy.

I ordered two more AS12's and yes I'll still be using the C-type/QDC upgrade cables with 0.78mm pins on both AS12's but I think I might just use an adhesive so neither of them can come undone. The AS12 is one of my favorite in-ears and I wouldn't want to be without them.



Viber said:


> +1 for Rock Zircon eartips.  the only good thing to come out of those crappy earphones.



Agreed on the Zircon eartips. It's a shame because I'd like to have several more pairs but I'm not willing to spend the funds on the Zircons just for the eartips. If I could find a 3-pack or 5-pack I'd order several of them at once.



Slater said:


> How would you compare the BA5 to the ASF (ignoring the differences in fit and age ie ‘newer is always better’)?
> 
> I was planning on getting a BA5 during 11.11, but could get the ASF instead.



Unfortunately, I never picked up the TRN BA5. Someone on one of the threads here, who's ears and judgement I trust, had commented that the BA10 was unequivocally preferable to the BA5.  It was about a year ago and it may have been baskingshark or Nimweth, can't remember. Nevertheless, I own and adore the BA10 so I passed on the BA5.

My best description is that the ASF is sort of a ZS3 redefined with balanced armatures. Maybe that's overstating things a bit but it's my best description.

They don't sound like any of my other Chi-Fi hybrids. They're quite unique.
Glad I picked them up.

Are they worth $70?
Considering the build, fit, comfort and performance I'd say yes but I wouldn't pay more than $70 for them. My AS12's were $70 each and I'd happily pay more for those.  I don't know if there is anything else on the market that sounds like the ASF and I've nothing to do an apples to apples comparison with so, yep, a well-built in-ear with a pleasantly unique sound profile for $70 is welcome in my collection. Definitely ordering a back-up set, too.

Best looking KZ to date in that ED16 blue, in my opinion.







I'm finding that they fare better with recordings containing acoustic instruments. Jazz, standards and vocal recordings sound warm and rich. I'm only marginally impressed with EDM and pop music on the ASF and I haven't sampled the ASF with classical just yet. Classical wasn't the ZS3's strong point so I'm procrastinating with the ASF because I'm not ready for the inevitable let down. Hopefully, I'll be wrong. 

That said, Sade sounds impressive on the ASF.


----------



## kmmbd (Nov 10, 2020)

Hi there. I believe my review of KZ ASF has raised a number of questions, so I decided to address some of them here. Please note that, in general, I take at least two weeks to listen to an IEM before reviewing. For me it's a hobby and not a job (not even close) so I don't bother about deadlines and such which many review sites need to adhere to. My frequency of posting reviews can be a good indication of that. I also have a wide range of tip collection and usually if it's a fit problem I can work my way through that (unless it's something incompatible with my ears).

All that being said, I heard the KZ ASF for only 5 days. Why? The reasons are very simple:

- I have gone through all tips and even a few third party cables and realized that the sound was indeed mostly unchanged from stock
- The stock sound was too weird for me to enjoy long listening sessions
- I pretty much had all my test tracks done within the hour (ASF having zero treble extension saved me from nitpicking with the treble...)



Viber said:


> There has to be something good about the ASF, Kz didnt release a bad iem for years now.



I didn't find anything good apart from the design and comfort (it fit really snugly and was great for commuting). I've already discussed all the tonal aberrations and I only looked at the graph after publishing the review. Crinacle has the measurements done on his website too and I did a sine-sweep which pretty much aligned with the graph. It's a bit unlikely that both Crinacle and my unit will have QC issues (they wouldn't have similar measurements otherwise).



Groovistico said:


> Well, ASF do have a strange frequency response and manufacturer should tune them more balanced. But some things the review say makes me wonder, if they listened to it. The vocals sound clear and open, right from the start even with stock tips. Looks like they just discribing the frequency graph and imagine the sound...



The male vocals are up-front and honky. My reference for midrange is the Sennheiser HD650 which I use as a baseline for vocal/midrange performance. Compared to the lower-mids on the Sennheiser, ASF sounded very strange indeed, and even some other KZ IEMs at a cheaper price (e.g. ZST X) didn't have such issues. As for the graph bit - I only look at them once the review is done to add some notes in between (e.g. certain IEMs may show peaks which aren't as aggressive in real world). Also, listening to it for a while and then going back to something like, say, the Final E1000 makes the difference in tonal accuracy even more stark and apparent.

Nonetheless, if the ASF signature is enjoyable for some then that's great! However, something this polarizing should definitely warrant a listen and blind-buying may not be the best of ideas. Also, the ZAX and even the old ZSX were far more enjoyable for me from a tuning perspective and I think KZ has dropped the ball massively on this one.


----------



## MacAttack7

kmmbd said:


> The male vocals are up-front and honky. My reference for midrange is the Sennheiser HD650 which I use as a baseline for vocal/midrange performance. Compared to the lower-mids on the Sennheiser, ASF sounded very strange indeed, and even some other KZ IEMs at a cheaper price (e.g. ZST X) didn't have such issues. As for the graph bit - I only look at them once the review is done to add some notes in between (e.g. certain IEMs may show peaks which aren't as aggressive in real world). Also, listening to it for a while and then going back to something like, say, the Final E1000 makes the difference in tonal accuracy even more stark and apparent.
> 
> Nonetheless, if the ASF signature is enjoyable for some then that's great! However, something this polarizing should definitely warrant a listen and blind-buying may not be the best of ideas. Also, the ZAX and even the old ZSX were far more enjoyable for me from a tuning perspective and I think KZ has dropped the ball massively on this one.


Can you give an example of a song or two that doesn't sound right to you?


----------



## alamnp

Alpha Whale said:


> Actually looks like I was mistaken about the origination of the ASF eartips when I wrote...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




yes CA16 has glove like fit. I ditched the stock tips and got Spinfit CP800 which works really well.

I am enjoying my CA16 with Spinfit CP800 daily... I think it's the best sounding IEM sub $100 for me


----------



## alamnp

SomeGuyDude said:


> Tripowin has tons. I've been using their balanced for ages. Can recommend highly.



I agreed, Tripowin is a clear winner


----------



## Slater (Nov 10, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> Unfortunately, I never picked up the TRN BA5.



Crap, sorry I meant KZ BA10 vs ASF


----------



## kmmbd (Nov 10, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> Can you give an example of a song or two that doesn't sound right to you?



So this is my entire review playlist: https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/04350ebe-1582-4785-9984-ff050d80d2b7

There are some other tracks but the majority is covered in that playlist. I'll pick an example here: Colbie Caillat's Magic. For comparison I've picked the Cat Ears Mia. It's not a multi-BA IEM but it's a V-shaped single-dynamic setup so the vocals are also recessed like the ASF.

The vocals are muffled as the upper-registers of the vocals aren't extended at all. Also this track in particular showcases the bloated bass. On the Cat Ears, despite its V-shaped signature, the bass stays under control and doesn't overshadow the lower-mids. The bass bloom was very evident during the 35 second mark on the ASF. The soundstage/imaging is also very weird on the ASF. Left/right separation is good but everything in between just sounds too central.

In terms of male vocals, Dashboard Confessional's Vindicated, or if you're into more singer/songwriter genre: Colin Hay's I Just Don't Think I'll Get Over You - displays the nasal/honky sound as I mentioned.

Another issue is with rock songs. My playlist has a lot of rock/metal songs and the ASF just gets too congested too quickly in such genres. Guitar riffs esp are too blunted to be enjoyable. Breaking Benjamin's Diary of Jane is an example.

Just did a live comparison now so I guess it's not the case where I reviewed it and then am relying on my memory.


----------



## voicemaster

kmmbd said:


> So this is my entire review playlist: https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/04350ebe-1582-4785-9984-ff050d80d2b7
> 
> There are some other tracks but the majority is covered in that playlist. I'll pick an example here: Colbie Caillat's Magic. For comparison I've picked the Cat Ears Mia. It's not a multi-BA IEM but it's a V-shaped single-dynamic setup so the vocals are also recessed like the ASF.
> 
> ...


I listened to this one and it was awesome with the ASF. No sign of congested at all, actually every instruments are very well separated.


----------



## Aparker2005

Can anyone recommend some foam tips for the cca ca16? Ones that always fit my kz zs10 pros don't fit. Thanks!!


----------



## voicemaster

Aparker2005 said:


> Can anyone recommend some foam tips for the cca ca16? Ones that always fit my kz zs10 pros don't fit. Thanks!!


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RXKF79T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 12, 2020)

_*Correction: He said in the comments he meant ASX, not ASF.
So I'm not sure if he likes the ASF or not.*_

Watch this video starting at 14:30 regarding the ASF.


He loves it!
Never seen such completely opposite opinions on an earphone.
I'm afraid to buy another one because I feel like there are 2 different versions out there.


----------



## Turbulance

SomeGuyDude said:


> I forget, I think it was like 80 hours of pink noise? It's not on the website anymore


----------



## seanwee

kmmbd said:


> So this is my entire review playlist: https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/04350ebe-1582-4785-9984-ff050d80d2b7
> 
> There are some other tracks but the majority is covered in that playlist. I'll pick an example here: Colbie Caillat's Magic. For comparison I've picked the Cat Ears Mia. It's not a multi-BA IEM but it's a V-shaped single-dynamic setup so the vocals are also recessed like the ASF.
> 
> ...


Hey did you try out the DMP-A55 software mod by MrWalkman yet? It ports over the DMP-Z1's sound signature to the NW-A55.


----------



## Groovistico

kmmbd said:


> Nonetheless, if the ASF signature is enjoyable for some then that's great!


I don't consider myself a fan of too weird sound signatures, you know. And from your discription I still think you somehow heard different signature fom what I (and some other people here) have heard. That's why I've posted a graph of subjective hearing test there. There is no level drop (compared to 1kHz) at 8 or 12 kHz, only at very highs, at 16kHz. That's what I hear. I don't like "non existent" treble. Treble is there - with my tips and in my ears. Also no plato at higher mids/lower treble, only 6k is too hot. But there is no "honky vocal". It's not that I like or tolerate "honky vocal", with the frequency response I hear, there is no honkynes. Bass is thick, but still they sound quite open.

So, I don't know... There is an ear cannal differences or something?


----------



## Slater (Nov 11, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> Never seen such completely opposite opinions on an earphone.
> I'm afraid to buy another one because I feel like there are 2 different versions out there.



My guess is it all boils down to the output impedance of whatever source these people are using.

The same polarizing opinion happened with the Audiosense T800. Basically, sources with high output impedance sounded like crap, but the T800 itself got blamed.

I’m willing to bet the exact same thing is happening in this case.


----------



## TheVortex

I will be getting my ASX delivered tomorrow and I will try it with all my low output impedance sources.
Tempotec Sonata BHD, Sonata HD Pro, SMSL Idea, Fiio M5, Shanling M0 and Tempotec V1-A.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 11, 2020)

Slater said:


> My guess is it all boils down to the output impedance of whatever source these people are using.
> 
> The same polarizing opinion happened with the Audiosense T800. Basically, sources with high output impedance sounded like crap, but the T800 itself got blamed.
> 
> I’m willing to bet the exact same thing is happening in this case.



I've learnt a lot about source matching here: https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/#:~:text=Pairing a headphone with an,driver control (damping factor).

Based on this "rules of eights" discussed here, they advise that the headphone/IEM impedance be divided by 8, and that is the maximum source output impedance that should be paired. Ie if you have a 32 ohm IEM, if this is divided by 8, then ideally a maximum 4 ohm output impedance for the source is the highest that you should be accepting for output impedance, so as not to affect sound quality. This is just a guide of course, exceptions exist and as usual YMMV.

So this article states: " “…if an amplifier's output impedance is significantly more than an eighth of the headphone’s impedance, the frequency response and sound of the headphone can change. This results in bigger mismatches and creates more variation from the headphone’s default sound signature. The way that a headphone responds to an amplifier with output impedance higher than one eighth of the headphone can be entirely erratic – different headphones will respond in different ways, but generally the results will be negative.” - RHA Audio

For the ASX and ASF, their impedance is 20 ohms and 18 ohms respectively, so dividing these by 8, the max source output impedance we can accept for the ASX is 2.5 ohms and for the ASF is 2.25 ohms.

For Audiosense T800, that is a much much more source picky IEM, with a reported output impedance is 9.2 ohms, so 9.2 divided by 8 means a 1.15ohm is the max source output impedance you should accept.

Are a lot of modern day DAPs and amps having output impedances of > 2 ohms or higher, which may affect the ASX and ASF? Maybe some folks who like to collect sources can advise. I'm not sure as I generally use IEMs so one of my criteria to buy sources is to have < 1 ohm output impedance, or close to zero as far as possible.


----------



## voicemaster

I am using mine wirh bt20s pro 99% of time


----------



## chinmie

Slater said:


> My guess is it all boils down to the output impedance of whatever source these people are using.
> 
> The same polarizing opinion happened with the Audiosense T800. Basically, sources with high output impedance sounded like crap, but the T800 itself got blamed.
> 
> I’m willing to bet the exact same thing is happening in this case.



the usual story of multi BA driver: output impedance dependent  

I'm becoming more intrigued by this ASF/ASX because of it's polarizing reviews. i might buy one or try to find a loaner if any of my friends purchase it


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

unifutomaki said:


> Chocolate makes IEMs sound sweeter, you heard it here first



What chocolate do I eat to get a warmer sound?


----------



## vivison

voicemaster said:


> I am using mine wirh bt20s pro 99% of time


Would you recommend "bt20s pro + ZAX/ASX" or KZ SA08 TWS. Thanks for your opinion.


----------



## Aparker2005

So with the 11.11 sale going on, I've been out of the loop for a while on iems. Anything I should check out? Currently have CCA ca16s and ultimate ears ue5 pro customs.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

People are saying the ZAX is a good companion for the CA16. ZAX for the higher-treble stuff.

But all the new KZs are highly contested in terms of which is better. ZAX a straight upgrade on ZS-10 Pro? There is division. Is ZAX more 'metallic' than ZSX? 

Which of ASF and ASX is better value and more fun? ASX seems to have good technicalities, very good at making it seem like you are near the performance maybe, ASF may be more 'fun' sound. Hard to say what to buy.

[Then there is BLON BL-01, BL-05S, KBear Lark, TinHifi T2+ that have generally positive reception.]

If CA16 fits you fine, then I think some of the new KZ will as well.


----------



## alamnp

Aparker2005 said:


> Can anyone recommend some foam tips for the cca ca16? Ones that always fit my kz zs10 pros don't fit. Thanks!!



Definitely use this one:

https://www.amazon.com/SpinFit-CP80...rds=cp800&qid=1605120591&s=electronics&sr=1-1


----------



## alamnp

ShakeThoseCans said:


> People are saying the ZAX is a good companion for the CA16. ZAX for the higher-treble stuff.
> 
> But all the new KZs are highly contested in terms of which is better. ZAX a straight upgrade on ZS-10 Pro? There is division. Is ZAX more 'metallic' than ZSX?
> 
> ...



CCA CA16 is very tricky, it took me extra $30 to experiment with the eartips to get the best sound...

I used CP800 Spinfit, believe it or not the sound rivaled Westone W60...


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 11, 2020)

Slater said:


> Crap, sorry I meant KZ BA10 vs ASF



Actually, this is probably the best question regarding comparisons and here is why.
The BA10 and ASF are very much alike while simultaneously they are very different.

Sounds like doublespeak so I'll be more specific.

How are the BA10 and ASF alike?

a) bass texture, decay and cleanliness
b) the presentation balance between low, midrange and upper frequencies. 
In other words their relation to each other. 
For example, on a scale of 1 to 5 the bass level would be 4, midrange level would be 4 and the treble level would be a 3. This is true on both the BA10 and the ASF.

How are the BA10 and ASF different?

a) with the BA10 you are at a concert positioned several rows back from the stage and you're hearing the performers as you are seeing the performers. In other words you see the performers onstage as a group from left to right.
b) with the ASF you are at the same concert but you are actually on stage with the performers surrounding you. They are close in and are performing for you and you alone.

Someone referred to Breaking Benjamin earlier so I'll use that track.

Here, the lead singer and all band members are practically staring you down as if to say "check me out" or "can you feel me?".
It's pretty cool, actually.



In an earlier post I commented on Sade's "Mr. Wrong". and Federico Aubele's "Postales". I enjoy both presentations equally but the difference is that the ASF delivers a more emotional presentation because the instruments and vocals are more forward and individually highlighted. It's a one on one experience as opposed to the BA10's equally impressive but less direct approach.





I think the differences are due more to the housing design of the BA10 vs the ASF. For the last two years I've wondered what the BA10 would sound like with similar tuning if KZ designed an in-ear that employed the internal acoustic structure found in the AS10. I did not want to try the AS10 due to its elevated mid-bass punch but if I could get an AS10 without the mid-bass punch I'd be all over it. Again, I don't own the AS10 but it seemed to me that directing those frequencies through ducts/channels would increase the focus. That is the way I hear the ASF. A direct and focused delivery as opposed to taking everything in as a whole. 

With the ASF I am in the forest admiring the character of each particular tree. 
With the BA10 I am admiring the forest from a slightly further vantage point.

On some recordings the ASF sounds natural and amazing. On Sade's "Mr. Wrong" the percussion on the left and drums on the right (at 56 seconds) sound very natural. I found that the following tracks convey a good sense of emotion on the ASF.



Spoiler












On other recordings the internal acoustic structure can overcook the upper midrange frequencies. It depends on the dynamics of the recording. With some electronic tracks you can definitely hear the digital processing in the recording.




Spoiler










The ASF shares the same weakness that the ZS3 has, namely that the sound being channeled through a tube on the ZS3 and "internal acoustic structure" on the ASF can sometimes exacerbate a peaky upper midrange.

I need to spend more time with the ASF for classical and rock genres so the jury is still out on compatibility there, for me, but personally, I'd put the BA10 and ASF on equal footing being mindful of their respective strengths and weaknesses.

The BA10 would be less controversial for folks who seek "air" via treble extension (despite the ASF and BA10 similarities). I wouldn't call the ASF "airy" but I wouldn't call the ASF "congested" either. It's simply a one-on-one performance that works for me.


----------



## voicemaster

vivison said:


> Would you recommend "bt20s pro + ZAX/ASX" or KZ SA08 TWS. Thanks for your opinion.


Bt20s pro obviously. You get a "tws" feature with IEM that you like.


----------



## TheVortex

So are the CP800 the ones to recommend for a CCA CA16 or equivalent nozzle sized KZ and CCA models?


----------



## voicemaster

Alpha Whale said:


> Actually, this is probably the best question regarding comparisons and here is why.
> The BA10 and ASF are very much alike while simultaneously they are very different.
> 
> Sounds like doublespeak so I'll be more specific.
> ...



You see the ASX/ASF use some tubing + molding where the older KZ only use a molding.


----------



## kmmbd

seanwee said:


> Hey did you try out the DMP-A55 software mod by MrWalkman yet?


Yes, I'm currently running it. The mod is awesome! Made the NW-A55 my current favorite DAP under $200.


Groovistico said:


> So, I don't know... There is an ear cannal differences or something?


Can very well be the case. IEMs are very sensitive to canal length and the distance from the source to the DRP (drum reference point). However, the super-early treble roll-off is very evident in all four measurements I've seen so far including KZ's own ones (which are accurate to a degree for a change).


Slater said:


> My guess is it all boils down to the output impedance of whatever source these people are using.


The Sony player likely has a higher than nominal output impedance (even their flagship players has 2/3ohm z-out) but the other two players I used: LG G7 (1ohm) and Cowon Plenue R2 (0.6 ohm) shouldn't have any impedance mismatch issues.


voicemaster said:


> You see the ASX/ASF use some tubing + molding where the older KZ only use a molding.


If I'm not mistaken the ASF/ASX doesn't use the usual physical cross-over via internal tubes/waveguides. Rather KZ has put in a 3D printed driver chamber and placed the drivers inside the chamber. There is no tubing that extends until the nozzle, to be specific.


----------



## voicemaster

kmmbd said:


> Yes, I'm currently running it. The mod is awesome! Made the NW-A55 my current favorite DAP under $200.
> 
> Can very well be the case. IEMs are very sensitive to canal length and the distance from the source to the DRP (drum reference point). However, the super-early treble roll-off is very evident in all four measurements I've seen so far including KZ's own ones (which are accurate to a degree for a change).
> 
> ...


On the ASX, I can see the tubing on some drivers (not all). I couldn't see anything on the ASF because I got the black version.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

alamnp said:


> CCA CA16 is very tricky, it took me extra $30 to experiment with the eartips to get the best sound...
> 
> I used CP800 Spinfit, believe it or not the sound rivaled Westone W60...



Is it just me, or are the CP800 Spinfit tips sized for a much smaller nozzle than the CA16? I can get CP100 on the CA16 no problem, but not the CP800.

I'm in Canada, if that makes any difference.


----------



## alamnp

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Is it just me, or are the CP800 Spinfit tips sized for a much smaller nozzle than the CA16? I can get CP100 on the CA16 no problem, but not the CP800.
> 
> I'm in Canada, if that makes any difference.



yep, it takes me about 2 minutes to put it in... but you will be "WOW!!!" see my illustration on my other comment


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 11, 2020)

ASF only $43 now. 
Wish I would’ve waited, but I just couldn't do it!


----------



## Hien80

tôi đã nhận Zax với giá 43 usd 
Các bác sĩ cho biết thêm:


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> Bt20s pro obviously. You get a "tws" feature with IEM that you like.


I just pulled the trigger on BT20s Pro thanks to your recommendation!  I’m going to be using ZAX with them.


----------



## Slater

Alpha Whale said:


> Actually, this is probably the best question regarding comparisons and here is why.
> The BA10 and ASF are very much alike while simultaneously they are very different.
> 
> Sounds like doublespeak so I'll be more specific.
> ...




Dynamite answer man; thanks so much for the help


----------



## Keputs

whitete said:


> I just pulled the trigger on BT20s Pro thanks to your recommendation!  I’m going to be using ZAX with them.


And same here with the combo. The best I can get to bt20s pro for 11-11 is $49.


----------



## Jonatan

so another thing i noticed about my asf's ia that when i listen from my laptop they sound a lot better than from my phone
much wider soundstage and even better instrument seperation 
im going to buy a fiio m3 pro soon unless something better at this price comes out and update my impressions


----------



## TheVortex (Nov 12, 2020)

Jonatan said:


> so another thing i noticed about my asf's ia that when i listen from my laptop they sound a lot better than from my phone
> much wider soundstage and even better instrument seperation
> im going to buy a fiio m3 pro soon unless something better at this price comes out and update my impressions



Are you just using the headphone out jack on your laptop?
Your phone might have a high output impedance.


----------



## TheVortex

Just arrived in the post. They use the same packaging as the KZ ZAX so I did not picture it.





The outer plate is really nice looking but I have not tried them yet and I will try it with the sources I have with low output impedance.


----------



## ZAXon 7

Jonatan said:


> so another thing i noticed about my asf's ia that when i listen from my laptop they sound a lot better than from my phone
> much wider soundstage and even better instrument seperation
> im going to buy a fiio m3 pro soon unless something better at this price comes out and update my impressions


which player do you use on the phone? if you didn't try it before i strongly suggest onkyo hf player, it suits my ZAX like anything else and it's much better than foobar2000 on my laptop with bang & olufsen audio.


----------



## RCracer777

I'm looking for some cables to go with my KZ's (and my KBEAR Lark which is on it's way) and I was looking around on Ali due to 11/11 as it has some very tempting discounts on some KBEAR cables. 

They look good but
A: I've never shopped on Ali
B: I'm not that familiar with the brand


Spoiler: Cable listings



https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000276849540.html?
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000287851937.html?
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000385571205.html?


So my question is should get some or pass?


----------



## MacAttack7

RCracer777 said:


> I'm looking for some cables to go with my KZ's (and my KBEAR Lark which is on it's way) and I was looking around on Ali due to 11/11 as it has some very tempting discounts on some KBEAR cables.
> 
> They look good but
> A: I've never shopped on Ali
> ...


I've bought a few things from AliExpress now over a couple years, and I haven't had a problem. 
I was a little unsure at first, but seems fine. Even cancelled a couple orders and was refunded promptly.

I think you'll find all kinds of opinions when it comes to cables. I highly doubt they make much of a difference for such a tiny thing.
The only reason I would buy an upgrade cable is if the original one has physical characteristics you don't like such as too tangly, too heavy, no microphone, bad microphonics, bad ear hooks, no cinch. 

All of my cables I got with my earphones (all below $70) are just fine except the KZ ASF one is more tangly than I would prefer. I see KBear mentioned all the time, so I would think they have cables just as good as the other companies......if you are talking budget cables.


----------



## PhonoPhi

RCracer777 said:


> I'm looking for some cables to go with my KZ's (and my KBEAR Lark which is on it's way) and I was looking around on Ali due to 11/11 as it has some very tempting discounts on some KBEAR cables.
> 
> They look good but
> A: I've never shopped on Ali
> ...


KBear cables are a bit above the rest (out of nearly the same 16-core cables made at the same factory), in my opinion/experience.
These ones do not have ear guides, which I prefer.


----------



## paulwasabii

alamnp said:


> CCA CA16 is very tricky, it took me extra $30 to experiment with the eartips to get the best sound...
> 
> I used CP800 Spinfit, believe it or not the sound rivaled Westone W60...



The CA16 is also the one where if you use the stock shallow tips for that custom-like fit with the shell pressed right up against your ear, it can block the front vent causing muffled sound as well.


----------



## Asound

The ASX arrived in my country. So far shipping went much faster than I expected.  Hopefully customs won't take too long.

As much as I am excited regarding these, I also fear them to some extend. All those opposing views. Nevertheless I can't wait to finally have them.
Also it kind of looks like that there are now more people that like them, compard to those who don't. At least in this thread. I never bothered with looking up opinions on other sites and just worked with the info from here.^^


----------



## Viber

so apparently Linsoul had a 50$ buys 100$ coupon available without any of us (or most of us) knowing about it


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> so apparently Linsoul had a 50$ buys 100$ coupon available without any of us (or most of us) knowing about it


Those were getting sold out like almost instantly whenever they came up. Dont feel bad about it.


----------



## Viber

RikudouGoku said:


> Those were getting sold out like almost instantly whenever they came up. Dont feel bad about it.



Their prices seems jacked up compared to Ali so i try not to think about it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> Their prices seems jacked up compared to Ali so i try not to think about it.


You cant stack coupons either. So yeah, not that big of a deal.


----------



## BubisUK

RikudouGoku said:


> Those were getting sold out like almost instantly whenever they came up. Dont feel bad about it.


I tried to get them on all occasions when they came up, but always got sold out notice. Managed to get as far as geting one in my basket 😃


----------



## RikudouGoku

BubisUK said:


> I tried to get them on all occasions when they came up, but always got sold out notice. Managed to get as far as geting one in my basket 😃


Must be frustrating.


----------



## BubisUK

RikudouGoku said:


> Must be frustrating.


Yes 😤 But what can you do 😃 End up buying on aliexpress instead.


----------



## RCracer777

MacAttack7 said:


> I think you'll find all kinds of opinions when it comes to cables. I highly doubt they make much of a difference for such a tiny thing.
> The only reason I would buy an upgrade cable is if the original one has physical characteristics you don't like such as too tangly, too heavy, no microphone, bad microphonics, bad ear hooks, no cinch.


It's mostly to get balanced options and the kz brown cables are a bit to tangly for my preference. The new silver ones are a lot better in my opinion as they have a looser braid.



PhonoPhi said:


> KBear cables are a bit above the rest (out of nearly the same 16-core cables made at the same factory), in my opinion/experience.
> These ones do not have ear guides, which I prefer.


Ear guides are always preferred for me, although I've never had some without the hooks. Didn't notice these don't have them at first so thanks for that  
Might still get one of them to try it without guides, they're cheap as hell atm.


----------



## MacAttack7

RCracer777 said:


> It's mostly to get balanced options and the kz brown cables are a bit to tangly for my preference. The new silver ones are a lot better in my opinion as they have a looser braid.
> 
> 
> Ear guides are always preferred for me, although I've never had some without the hooks. Didn't notice these don't have them at first so thanks for that
> Might still get one of them to try it without guides, they're cheap as hell atm.


Also I think most KZ's are 0.75 instead of 0.78........I'm still not sure if that matters or not.
And some are C-Pin.


----------



## RCracer777

MacAttack7 said:


> Also I think most KZ's are 0.75 instead of 0.78........I'm still not sure if that matters or not.
> And some are C-Pin.


True, 0.75mm paragraph C is the connector for all of the KZ's that I have. Then again that is the same as the QDC connector which all of those cables are available with.


----------



## MacAttack7

RCracer777 said:


> True, 0.75mm paragraph C is the connector for all of the KZ's that I have. Then again that is the same as the QDC connector which all of those cables are available with.


I read somewhere that the QDC may be 0.78, so I'm not sure if that's true or if that even matters.


----------



## nraymond

MacAttack7 said:


> I read somewhere that the QDC may be 0.78, so I'm not sure if that's true or if that even matters.



0.03mm is smaller than the thinnest diameter in the range of thin European hair. Quite arguably an inconsequential amount. Someone in the forum mentioned measuring cables labelled as 0.75mm and 0.78mm and found that their plug diameters didn't appreciably differ. Wouldn't surprise me if vendors just stocked one cable and stuck a sticker on the box/bag for 0.75mm or 0.78mm depending on what the customer ordered.


----------



## PhonoPhi

MacAttack7 said:


> I read somewhere that the QDC may be 0.78, so I'm not sure if that's true or if that even matters.


I have two different pairs of cables "0.75" and "0.78" by TRN - no difference in any aspects of the fit that I can see.


----------



## MacAttack7

nraymond said:


> 0.03mm is smaller than the thinnest diameter in the range of thin European hair. Quite arguably an inconsequential amount. Someone in the forum mentioned measuring cables labelled as 0.75mm and 0.78mm and found that their plug diameters didn't appreciably differ. Wouldn't surprise me if vendors just stocked one cable and stuck a sticker on the box/bag for 0.75mm or 0.78mm depending on what the customer ordered.


Sounds like it's just a marketing ploy so people will be more likely to stick with the KZ-brand cable which specifically states 0.75 mm. They got me. I was shopping for cables yesterday, but I kept skipping the ones that were 0.78 mm.


----------



## IEMusic

nraymond said:


> 0.03mm is smaller than the thinnest diameter in the range of thin European hair. Quite arguably an inconsequential amount. Someone in the forum mentioned measuring cables labelled as 0.75mm and 0.78mm and found that their plug diameters didn't appreciably differ. Wouldn't surprise me if vendors just stocked one cable and stuck a sticker on the box/bag for 0.75mm or 0.78mm depending on what the customer ordered.





PhonoPhi said:


> I have two different pairs of cables "0.75" and "0.78" by TRN - no difference in any aspects of the fit that I can see.


This is exactly what I thought, and had mentioned it before, but was quickly shot down for thinking that it made essentially no difference.   I think another head-fier had measured several of them and noted that the sample variation was greater than the 0.03mm difference.


----------



## BubisUK

MacAttack7 said:


> Sounds like it's just a marketing ploy so people will be more likely to stick with the KZ-brand cable which specifically states 0.75 mm. They got me. I was shopping for cables yesterday, but I kept skipping the ones that were 0.78 mm.


I use 0.78mm on all iem's, does not matter either they need 0.75mm or 0.78mm. Works fine and there really is no difference


----------



## IEMusic

BubisUK said:


> I use 0.78mm on all iem's, does not matter either they need 0.75mm or 0.78mm. Works fine and there really is no difference


There were theories that using the 0.78mm plugs in the 0.75mm sockets, especially if repeatedly inserting and removing the cable, was responsible for all of the fractures that appear over time on the qdc sockets.  I have my doubts about it.


----------



## Viber

I still dont understand if 0.75mm paragraph A or B cables can fit into 0.75mm paragraph C sockets.


----------



## Jonatan

TheVortex said:


> Are you just using the headphone out jack on your laptop?
> Your phone might have a high output impedance.


I use it Straight out of the jack on both for now 
Im yet to buy an DAC and AMP


----------



## Jonatan

ZAXon 7 said:


> which player do you use on the phone? if you didn't try it before i strongly suggest onkyo hf player, it suits my ZAX like anything else and it's much better than foobar2000 on my laptop with bang & olufsen audio.


I stream off from tidal (hi fi)


----------



## BubisUK

IEMusic said:


> There were theories that using the 0.78mm plugs in the 0.75mm sockets, especially if repeatedly inserting and removing the cable, was responsible for all of the fractures that appear over time on the qdc sockets.  I have my doubts about it.


For QDC I use the QDC connection, I simply dont like how non QDC looks conected to QDC connection, but for 'regular' 2 pin I use 0.78mm. There are a lot of theories around about all sorts of things 😃


----------



## BubisUK (Nov 12, 2020)

Viber said:


> I still dont understand if 0.75mm paragraph A or B cables can fit into 0.75mm paragraph C sockets.


Different connectors  look below.


----------



## BubisUK (Nov 12, 2020)

Slater said:


> I made up a little graphic to show the difference between the different types of KZ cables, since a lot of people are confused on this.
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to use the image when/where/how you want.


Basically A and B will fit C, but in my opinion will look like **s


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEMusic said:


> There were theories that using the 0.78mm plugs in the 0.75mm sockets, especially if repeatedly inserting and removing the cable, was responsible for all of the fractures that appear over time on the qdc sockets.  I have my doubts about it.


That is exactly why I got not only 2 two pins but also two "QDC" cables, 0.75 and 0.78, and tested in addition to the pin fit if there is any difference with how the jackets fit - no difference.

So KZ/CCA paragraph C  pin housing cracks just because of the poor plastic used.


----------



## alamnp

paulwasabii said:


> The CA16 is also the one where if you use the stock shallow tips for that custom-like fit with the shell pressed right up against your ear, it can block the front vent causing muffled sound as well.


 Yes, I agreed with your assessment sometimes I have to wiggle my placement to release the pressure


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> That is exactly why I got not only 2 two pins but also two "QDC" cables, 0.75 and 0.78, and tested in addition to the pin fit if there is any difference with how the jackets fit - no difference.
> 
> So KZ/CCA paragraph C  pin housing cracks just because of the poor plastic used.



Yep, no difference, bought 0.78mm by mistake, fit just fine


----------



## IEMusic

PhonoPhi said:


> So KZ/CCA paragraph C pin housing cracks just because of the poor plastic used.


Yep, that’s what I figured.  Poor material, and possibly poor manufacturing technique (heating/cooling).


----------



## Mouseman

RCracer777 said:


> I'm looking for some cables to go with my KZ's (and my KBEAR Lark which is on it's way) and I was looking around on Ali due to 11/11 as it has some very tempting discounts on some KBEAR cables.
> 
> They look good but
> A: I've never shopped on Ali
> ...


I have several KBear cables, and many from other manufacturers. I am a big fan of KBear over the others in similar price ranges, and would highly recommend them. Solid build, quality, and SQ.


----------



## Turbulance

Just got my KZ ASX delivered. Decided to use the stock cable and large tips to test. Listening to my Tidal, Headphone Testing playlist via USB Audio Player Pro and my Fiio BTR5 connected via USB-C.

Very happy. Extremely detailed sound and I'm hearing a few things I've not noticed in my other IEMs.


----------



## Viber

So, from the impressions on the ASX and ASF so far i gather their performance is somewhere between excellent and atrocious.


----------



## redguardsoldier

Viber said:


> So, from the impressions on the ASX and ASF so far i gather their performance is somewhere between excellent and atrocious.



you mean their performance is average, which is the middle between excellent and atrocious  ?


----------



## MacAttack7

kmmbd said:


> There are some other tracks but the majority is covered in that playlist. I'll pick an example here: Colbie Caillat's Magic. For comparison I've picked the Cat Ears Mia. It's not a multi-BA IEM but it's a V-shaped single-dynamic setup so the vocals are also recessed like the ASF.
> 
> The vocals are muffled as the upper-registers of the vocals aren't extended at all. Also this track in particular showcases the bloated bass. On the Cat Ears, despite its V-shaped signature, the bass stays under control and doesn't overshadow the lower-mids. The bass bloom was very evident during the 35 second mark on the ASF. The soundstage/imaging is also very weird on the ASF. Left/right separation is good but everything in between just sounds too central.
> 
> ...


Thanks for providing some song samples.

I tried Colbie Caillat and then Colin Hay. I used my Sennheiser HD569 to compare.
The voices are definitely more crisp and clear on the Sennheisers......a cleaner sound.
The ASF has a fuller, bass, sound....probably has what you call bloated bass in your description, although I wouldn't know bloated bass from heavy bass.

With Breaking Benjamin I'm not sure what I was hearing. I liked it on the ASF, but I'm not used to that kind of music.
There was a fuller, warmer, bass sound on the ASF, and a lighter sound on the Sennheisers.

I'm not cut out for the earphone reviewing business.
I still enjoy the ASF's and wouldn't notice anything wrong if you didn't tell me. 
But it would make complete sense to me if all the bass had an effect on the other areas of the sound, because they do have a lot of bass.


----------



## courierdriver

IEMusic said:


> There were theories that using the 0.78mm plugs in the 0.75mm sockets, especially if repeatedly inserting and removing the cable, was responsible for all of the fractures that appear over time on the qdc sockets.  I have my doubts about it.


I fractured my original KZ ZS10 PRO C connector QDC raised housing on the left earpiece, which caused it to quit working. I subbed out cables many times with that set; from the original, single ended brown cable that shipped with it, to a JCally balanced 8 core, to a regular Nicehck 2 pin balanced, to a Tripowin Zonie balanced. All except the original cable included in the box, was a 0.78 2 pin. All the cables I used fit well and were snug. They never came loose or fell off. I don't associate the failure of the earphone with using a 0.78 2 pin; I think the blame lies with the raised Paragraph C connection method they have been incorporating into their newer models. While there is something to be said about the ability of this connector to help prevent the pins from breaking inside the connector ports (if accidentally violently pulled on), I don't think this was ever designed in a way to facilitate multiple cable swaps or removals. We have to remember that, in order to give the consumer a great sound at a lower cost, some build sacrifices have to be made.


----------



## cleg

So, here is my video about KZ ASF. It's really fun to see such polar opinions for this model, but in my opinion, everything is simple. KZ created another "anti-audiophiliac" model. Some people projected their expectation for a "5/10 balanced armatures model" to those IEMs and were disappointed that they aren't super neutral mega natural, etc, and got disappointment. Those, who've expected KZ signature sound will get it: fun, bassy, energetic, and will love it


----------



## Turbulance

Turbulance said:


> Just got my KZ ASX delivered. Decided to use the stock cable and large tips to test. Listening to my Tidal, Headphone Testing playlist via USB Audio Player Pro and my Fiio BTR5 connected via USB-C.
> 
> Very happy. Extremely detailed sound and I'm hearing a few things I've not noticed in my other IEMs.



So far mostly good.

As far as this pair of ASX, I am very happy with their sound. To be honest I really like the tuning of these IEMs, I do not find the bass to be muddy and neither do I find them dark. Not sure why some of the reviews have been so negative. 

The only downer for me so far has been the fit of the IEM creating hot spots. Though my ears are starting to adjust to the new fit.

The issue for me is with the wings, which have a very firm fit against my ears, no chance of the IEMs falling out, but the wings push a bit too hard against my ears and they have been getting uncomfortable if I wear them too long, with some pain if pressed.

Thankfully the more I wear them the less this problem is becoming. I am finding I can wear them longer and longer and I expect that I will soon get completely used to them. But this could be a real deal breaker for someone with small ears.

I also ditched the supplied ear tips. They are very flimsy, often turning inside out (I’ve never had tips do this previously). And because they sit flush with the tip of metal nozzles, they do not enter the earth very far making it hard to get a good seal. Currently I’m using a pair of Spin Fits (CP 145). These tips extend further into the ear and fit well.


----------



## IEMusic

Viber said:


> So, from the impressions on the ASX and ASF so far i gather their performance is somewhere between excellent and atrocious.


They exist “where love and hate collide”.


----------



## IEMusic

It’s weird, I have the ASF and the LZ A7 on the way, but purely out of curiosity, and my desire to have an all-BA KZ IEM, I’m actually more excited to hear the ASF.  My expectations are for a fun, unabashedly V-shaped KZ IEM.


----------



## Sebulr

IEMusic said:


> Yep, that’s what I figured.  Poor material, and possibly poor manufacturing technique (heating/cooling).


As a bloke who works in plastic mouldings for 20 odd years I'd guess it's acrylic which is a brittle material. And yes my zs10pro earpieces are slightly cracked, but still usable. Should have used abs, polycarbonate or acetal. Those are more costly however I think. I don't order the material, and am not going to bother looking it up, but I'm pretty sure that's correct. I'd use pc personally. Would likely increase the cost by about £1 per 50 iems, if that. I don't hold it against them though.


----------



## paulwasabii

cleg said:


> So, here is my video about KZ ASF. It's really fun to see such polar opinions for this model, but in my opinion, everything is simple. KZ created another "anti-audiophiliac" model. Some people projected their expectation for a "5/10 balanced armatures model" to those IEMs and were disappointed that they aren't super neutral mega natural, etc, and got disappointment. Those, who've expected KZ signature sound will get it: fun, bassy, energetic, and will love it




My KZ SA08 was delivered yesterday and what you said is exactly what I felt last night. This is like the Z1, KZ putting new hardware in a TWS and showing it off with that bassy, fun KZ house sound.


----------



## MacAttack7

Turbulance said:


> I also ditched the supplied ear tips. They are very flimsy, often turning inside out (I’ve never had tips do this previously). And because they sit flush with the tip of metal nozzles, they do not enter the earth very far making it hard to get a good seal. Currently I’m using a pair of Spin Fits (CP 145). These tips extend further into the ear and fit well.


Are the CP145's (5-6 mm) a little too large for the ASF nozzles? 
I read some going to the CP800's (3-3.5 mm).


----------



## MacAttack7

cleg said:


> So, here is my video about KZ ASF. It's really fun to see such polar opinions for this model, but in my opinion, everything is simple. KZ created another "anti-audiophiliac" model. Some people projected their expectation for a "5/10 balanced armatures model" to those IEMs and were disappointed that they aren't super neutral mega natural, etc, and got disappointment. Those, who've expected KZ signature sound will get it: fun, bassy, energetic, and will love it



Your description reminds me of watching an action movie that's fun, entertaining, & enjoyable, but at the same time the dialogue is cheesy, there are plot holes, and some of the action scenes are just overdone & ludicrous.
You know in the back of your mind it was a horribly made movie if you are a serious movie critic, but it may be a very well made movie if the goal was mostly fun & entertainment.
I always think the critics should add a category to their reviews for fun & entertainment value, "Yeah, this movie was absolutely terrible in a critical sense, but I can't wait to watch it again!"


----------



## cleg

MacAttack7 said:


> Your description reminds me of watching an action movie that's fun, entertaining, & enjoyable, but at the same time the dialogue is cheesy, there are plot holes, and some of the action scenes are just overdone & ludicrous.
> You know in the back of your mind it was a horribly made movie if you are a serious movie critic, but it may be a very well made movie if the goal was mostly fun & entertainment.
> I always think the critics should add a category to their reviews for fun & entertainment value, "Yeah, this movie was absolutely terrible in a critical sense, but I can't wait to watch it again!"



Pretty good metaphor, but I still think ASF isn’t terrible. It’s like recent Michael Bay movies: not something smart, but entertaining. And not bad in general, as there is Uwe Boll and his movies )))


----------



## kmmbd

cleg said:


> Pretty good metaphor, but I still think ASF isn’t terrible. It’s like recent Michael Bay movies: not something smart, but entertaining. And not bad in general, as there is Uwe Boll and his movies )))



Michael Bay movies are apt analogies for the ASF/ASX duo I guess. Big budget (big driver count), big name actors (KZ is a big name now), horrible storyline (the tuning...) and all action (those moments of _fun _as you mentioned haha). 

For me it's just that there are even KZ models around this price-range that outperform the ASF/ASX by a margin. Even the old ZSX was a much better performer.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

So here's a question (I think I've mentioned it before but hey), if someone's got the ZSX but is looking at upgrading, where to next? The ZAX seem to be a no-go and I don't want something more "neutral."


----------



## Slater

Wow, it seems like I made the right call in getting the BA10 during 11.11 after all


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Nov 13, 2020)

Slater said:


> Wow, it seems like I made the right call in getting the BA10 during 11.11 after all



With KZ the margin of difference is getting blurred between new and old models. At least that's what many old consumers feel. Now it is very easy to get something very similar to their latest flagships at a substantially low price. Guess that's the downside of coming up with so many iems in a short span with negligible difference.

ZAX/ZSX/ZS10 Pro/ZSN Pro/X/ZSN
BA5/AS10/ASF/12/ASX

One can simply go for the cheapest one and use different tips as per their needs.


----------



## Nimweth

Dani157 said:


> With KZ the margins of difference is blurring between new and old models. At least that's what many old consumers feel. Now it is very easy to get something very similar to their latest flagships at a substantially low price. Guess that's the downside of coming up with so many iems in a short span with negligible difference.
> 
> ZAX/ZSX/ZS10 Pro/ZSN Pro/X/ZSN
> BA5/AS10/ASF/12/ASX
> ...


Don't forget the ZS7!


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> Don't forget the ZS7!



My all time favorite KZ, tied with the ZAX


----------



## IEMusic

When will the KZ ASS be released?


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> My all time favorite KZ, tied with the ZAX


My top three are the BA10, ZS7 and ZAX.


----------



## alamnp

IEMusic said:


> When will the KZ ASS be released?



lol, is that for real??? ASS - not a good brand... I would not buy it even if it's that GOOD... not buying an ASS


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Nimweth said:


> Don't forget the ZS7!



I purposely ignored them as they are extremely difficult to get nowadays and most probably discontinued as they were limited edition.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

IEMusic said:


> When will the KZ ASS be released?


That's what audiophiles call every model.


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's what audiophiles call every model.


Every man has his own allusions


----------



## Nimweth

I 





Dani157 said:


> I purposely ignored them as they are extremely difficult to get nowadays and most probably discontinued as they were limited edition.


I Found them here:
https://gbr.grandado.com/products/k...s10-zst-ed16-for-sport?variant=36783728558229


----------



## TechnoidFR

Viber said:


> So, from the impressions on the ASX and ASF so far i gather their performance is somewhere between excellent and atrocious.




To have a lot and a lot of iem ( my list is clearly outdated ). They are very disappointed. I receive it today and the sound is very weird

CCA C16 and TRN BA8 are far better for me


----------



## digitalazer

After much research, I decided to go with the KZ ZAX (My wife stole my KZ ZSX shortly after getting them and won't return them ). Both the ZAX and ZSX have radically changed casual listening for both of us. Just about everything I throw it's way, including Synthwave, R&B, video game orchestras, meditation music, the ZAX handles it like a champ on my Google Pixel 4a phone. Coming from the Final Audio E3000c, the ZAX sound is more engaging, lively, clear, and addicting. It's great that I don't even have to use my Fiio E17 DAC or mess with the Wavelet EQ. At 50% volume, it's plenty loud and even at 10% volume for nighttime listening, instruments are detailed while the wide soundstage is filling. No burn-in needed and it sounded great right out of the box, but I still changed out the stock tips for more comprehensive sound.

Now for the ASX. I'm sadly disappointed with it after looking so forward to it.  Vocal clarity and imaging is great and is somewhat slightly better than the ZAX, especially listening to rain / thunder tracks on Spotify. Otherwise, the overall sound comes off as muffled even after changing out the stock tips. It became too annoying after expecting brain burn-in after a couple of days but these are going bye-bye.

I'm hoping the NF Audio NM2+ I ordered on the 11.11 sale will be my endgame "budget" IEM but I doubt my ZAX will be going away anytime soon.


----------



## nraymond

alamnp said:


> lol, is that for real??? ASS - not a good brand... I would not buy it even if it's that GOOD... not buying an ASS



But if there was an ASS, then you could plug it into your Schiit!


----------



## JazzVinyl

digitalazer said:


> After much research, I decided to go with the KZ ZAX (My wife stole my KZ ZSX shortly after getting them and won't return them ). Both the ZAX and ZSX have radically changed casual listening for both of us. Just about everything I throw it's way, including Synthwave, R&B, video game orchestras, meditation music, the ZAX handles it like a champ on my Google Pixel 4a phone. Coming from the Final Audio E3000c, the ZAX sound is more engaging, lively, clear, and addicting. It's great that I don't even have to use my Fiio E17 DAC or mess with the Wavelet EQ. At 50% volume, it's plenty loud and even at 10% volume for nighttime listening, instruments are detailed while the wide soundstage is filling. No burn-in needed and it sounded great right out of the box, but I still changed out the stock tips for more comprehensive sound.
> 
> Now for the ASX. I'm sadly disappointed with it after looking so forward to it.  Vocal clarity and imaging is great and is somewhat slightly better than the ZAX, especially listening to rain / thunder tracks on Spotify. Otherwise, the overall sound comes off as muffled even after changing out the stock tips. It became too annoying after expecting brain burn-in after a couple of days but these are going bye-bye.
> 
> I'm hoping the NF Audio NM2+ I ordered on the 11.11 sale will be my endgame "budget" IEM but I doubt my ZAX will be going away anytime soon.



I like my ZAX too.  And I really like the KZ AS06.  

The AS06 are dang near perfect for me, sound very very nice, and fit better than the ZAX, the AS06 go in faster/easier and "disappear"...I forget I have them in, they are so comfortable. If I could keep only one of the two IEM's, I would keep the AS06 for the sound/fit/comfort.

Cheers!


----------



## JazzVinyl

nraymond said:


> But if there was an ASS, then you could plug it into your Schiit!


 
'er...


----------



## JazzVinyl

I bought TRM V90 on 11.11 - just to see how the compare to KZ.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 13, 2020)

https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/11/review-kz-asf/

Another KZ ASF review is up. It is quite amazing the amount of polarity this and the ASX is getting.

I suppose ASX is getting flak partially cause it is also selling at the $100ish region where there's a lot of well regarded CHIFI eg Fiio FH3, ISN H40, TRI I3, ThieAudio gear, Shozy 1.4 etc. The clientiele at that price bracket will probably be more demanding in the tuning and refinement compared to a $30 USD KZ.

The only other recent review that I remember getting such polarizing opinions is the Moondrop SSR. Some like it a lot, some say it is shouty at the 3 kHz. But Moondrop SSR can be partially explained caused of the Fletcher Munson curve, some are using it at low volumes where it sounds good, but if u jack up the volume a bit more, the 3 kHz area sounds like an ice pick for me (most folks don't mention how loud they are using their gear at).


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> My top three are the BA10, ZS7 and ZAX.



That’s why I decided to go for the BA10. I’ve been contemplating it for a long while now. Better late than never!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I liked the ZS7, so I might actually like the ZAX. Especially if the fit is better.

People raved about the BA10 for a long time. I understand it is said to be better than the TRN BA5, and I enjoy the BA5 for some listening.

Something for me to contemplate.


----------



## digitalazer (Nov 13, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> I like my ZAX too.  And I really like the KZ AS06.
> 
> The AS06 are dang near perfect for me, sound very very nice, and fit better than the ZAX, the AS06 go in faster/easier and "disappear"...I forget I have them in, they are so comfortable. If I could keep only one of the two IEM's, I would keep the AS06 for the sound/fit/comfort.
> 
> Cheers!



I appreciate your comfort/fit insight with the AS06. The last KZ iem had before the Final Audio 3000c was the KZ ATE, which was also my first intro into budget iems. It was also the first to experience an expanded soundstage. But it was bulky, the fit was often difficult, and was  heavy. The subsequent KZ models looked even more bulky and less comfortable enough to stay away for awhile. The ZAX is very comfortable and I hardly notice them, compared to the ZSX's notch that you can feel it at rest (it doesn't bother my ears however). 

How does the AS06 weight compare to the ZAX?

 Compared to the ASX, the ZAX is soooo much lighter and easier to insert and go.


----------



## JazzVinyl

digitalazer said:


> I appreciate your comfort/fit insight with the AS06. The last KZ iem had before the Final Audio 3000c was the KZ ATE, which was also my first intro into budget iems. It was also the first to experience an expanded soundstage. But it was bulky, the fit was often difficult, and was  heavy. The subsequent KZ models looked even more bulky and less comfortable enough to stay away for awhile. The ZAX is very comfortable and I hardly notice them, compared to the ZSX's notch that you can feel it at rest (it doesn't bother my ears however).
> 
> How does the AS06 weight compare to the ZAX?
> 
> Compared to the ASX, the ZAX is soooo much lighter and easier to insert and go.



I have the KZ ATE's as well.  Always liked them.

The AS06 are lighter than the ZAX but the biggest difference is the "bulk" they have a smaller footprint and a different, and thinner shape, that just seem to work better for my ears.   

I do love the ZAX too, just a little harder to get the fit right for me.  But they sound wonderful, well worth the tiny price.


----------



## astermk

One thing I don't understand is why people keep calling the ASX a "$100 IEM" when it's a $70 IEM if one just bothers to spend 2 minutes looking through Ali listings. And that's not just 11.11, it's discounted to $70-something pretty much year round. Same with all KZ IEMs actually, they're quite a bit cheaper on AliExpress than anywhere else. Are people really that averse to looking for the best deal? It doesn't even take much effort or time. AliExpress shipping times are pretty slow though, so that's the only con.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 14, 2020)

astermk said:


> One thing I don't understand is why people keep calling the ASX a "$100 IEM" when it's a $70 IEM if one just bothers to spend 2 minutes looking through Ali listings. And that's not just 11.11, it's discounted to $70-something pretty much year round. Same with all KZ IEMs actually, they're quite a bit cheaper on AliExpress than anywhere else. Are people really that averse to looking for the best deal? It doesn't even take much effort or time. AliExpress shipping times are pretty slow though, so that's the only con.








You have any links for the $70 price for KZ ASX? As of the time of this post, it still seems to be about $100 for most shops on Aliexpress. It is more expensive on other non Aliexpress sites, eg Amazon too, and I have some friends that don't want to buy from Aliexpress for some reasons eg CS/returns doubt or they just don't deliver to some countries eg Aliexpress seems to have issues with delivering to India due to some conflicts. And I assume we are not talking about having price post coupons or flash sale or 11/11 sale prices. 

I think u can get it slightly cheaper if u follow some Aliexpress stores for a fan discount, have seen it is at the OPA Audio store for $79 - 81 USD depending on mic vs non mic version. Haven't tried OPA store, so can't vouch for their reliability.
But haven't seen that at $70 before coupons/11/11 sale. Plus as discussed, maybe Aliexpress or even taobao (their local market seller) may be cheaper, but a lot of folks are still gonna be buying their CHIFI from other online platforms due to peace of mind/better CS, so I think on average most folks are still gonna be paying close to $100 for it. Though with the polarizing reviews coming out and the usual mark up of just released CHIFI, I would bet the ASX will drop in price over the next few weeks.

Some Aliexpress shops like to sneakily bundle cheaper gear in their posting for an IEM eg BLON BL-03 is frequently bundled with a cheaper cable to act as a clickbait, but the actual IEM itself is at the usual price. From brief screening, it will look like the BL-03 is $7.54, only when u go in then u realize that was a trick.


----------



## astermk

baskingshark said:


> You have any links for the $70 price for KZ ASX? As of the time of this post, it still seems to be about $100 for most shops on Aliexpress. It is more expensive on other non Aliexpress sites, eg Amazon too, and I have some friends that don't want to buy from Aliexpress for some reasons eg CS/returns doubt or they just don't deliver to some countries eg Aliexpress seems to have issues with delivering to India due to some conflicts. And I assume we are not talking about having price post coupons or flash sale or 11/11 sale prices.
> 
> I think u can get it slightly cheaper if u follow some Aliexpress stores for a fan discount, have seen it is at the OPA Audio store for $79 - 81 USD depending on mic vs non mic version.
> But haven't seen that at $70 before coupons/11/11 sale.
> ...


Sure. https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMj5BNT

Pretty much every listing I opened has a $25 "store coupon" automatically applied to the price the preview shows. This one shows up as $72 for me, most are $75-ish.





This store coupon may only be showing up in the phone app, though. Ali is weird like that.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 14, 2020)

astermk said:


> Sure. https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMj5BNT
> 
> Pretty much every listing I opened has a $25 "store coupon" automatically applied to the price the preview shows. This one shows up as $72 for me, most are $75-ish.
> 
> ...



Ah yes u are right, there is a $25 USD off for $96 USD spent given on all items on this shop. It doesn't show up on the search bar, but u must go inside to apply the coupon. I think KZ ASX is not gonna be that popular after the polarizing reviews, I kicked it out of my cart after the first few reviews filtered out, but I think $25 off for their other items or $15 USD off for $55 USD is quite a good deal.

But yeah still a few of my friends are anti Aliexpress, they will still buy their gear from Amazon and other online platforms, so the ASX probably won't be $70ish USD there.


----------



## richario

Over the years I've had HDS1, HDS2, HDS3, ED3 acme & perfection, ED7, ED9, ZSA, ZS5i & ii, ZS6, ZS7, ZS10, AS10, AS12, and now ASF. 

Top 3 would be AS10, ASF, and ZS7. I've settled on Sony MH750 tips for the ASF and am really enjoying the sound. Yet to see if they will dethrone the AS10 - I just.love this signature, and the ASF has a similar tune, it just feels a little crisper while still maintaining strong bass and mids with clear but rolled off treble. Also all 3 are really good pairs with the BT20s and pros which is important to me.

Feels like I may need to cave and try the BA10...


----------



## TheVortex

Been using the ASX for a little while now and it is a disappointment. I had high hopes for what it could have been but it just was not meant to be. My opinions match the reviews on head-fi. 

I have used them with the SMSL Idea, Tempotec Sonata HD Pro and Sonata BHD as they are clean sources and have low output impedance. I will update if they drastically change sound signature which I highly doubt. KZ ZAX is the best model so far.


----------



## Viber

TheVortex said:


> KZ ZAX is the best model so far.



But you didnt give the ZAX a glowing review either


----------



## TheVortex

Viber said:


> But you didnt give the ZAX a glowing review either



True but it is still a better product than this plus it's much cheaper and has a better fitment.


----------



## Viber

Zax leak sound like zs6 or are they actually closed?
How is the noise isolation?


----------



## unifutomaki

Viber said:


> Zax leak sound like zs6 or are they actually closed?
> How is the noise isolation?



No apparent sound leakage that I can perceive. Isolation is average due to the vents.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Zax leak sound like zs6 or are they actually closed?
> How is the noise isolation?


It leaks a bit more than zsx.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Nimweth said:


> I
> I Found them here:
> https://gbr.grandado.com/products/k...s10-zst-ed16-for-sport?variant=36783728558229


Hence I called them difficult to get as only a few obscure sites have them in stock and there were limited pieces in production from the onset as KZ created them for some store in the first place.


----------



## PhonoPhi

TheVortex said:


> True but it is still a better product than this plus it's much cheaper and has a better fitment.


Imagine a (let's say purely hypothetical) situation, the KZ product is really great, e.g. ASX for its ~$75$, and then there are reviewers, who are reviewing much more expensive IEMs (especially free samples for their absolutely unbiased opinion, of course). What then these reviewers will be able to say about these other IEMs if KZ (again, purely hypothetically) IEMs are so much better?

This is quite a bit perplexing dilemma, is not it?


----------



## TheVortex

PhonoPhi said:


> Imagine a (let's say purely hypothetical) situation, the KZ product is really great, e.g. ASX for its ~$75$, and then there are reviewers, who are reviewing much more expensive IEMs (especially free samples for their absolutely unbiased opinion, of course). What then these reviewers will be able to say about these other IEMs if KZ (again, purely hypothetically) IEMs are so much better?
> 
> This is quite a bit perplexing dilemma, is not it?



In this case the ZAX which is a cheaper product than the ASX is the better performer in multiple ways. I am unfortunately not a reviewer who gets expensive IEMs and the most expensive one I have is the Audiosense T800 which I bought with my own money.


----------



## Tonymac136

PhonoPhi said:


> Imagine a (let's say purely hypothetical) situation, the KZ product is really great, e.g. ASX for its ~$75$, and then there are reviewers, who are reviewing much more expensive IEMs (especially free samples for their absolutely unbiased opinion, of course). What then these reviewers will be able to say about these other IEMs if KZ (again, purely hypothetically) IEMs are so much better?
> 
> This is quite a bit perplexing dilemma, is not it?



I would hope that a reviewer would be honest and say that the KZ is better. For me, I've not thus far found any KZ I could recommend wholeheartedly. Don't get me wrong, I like the ZAX especially but sub $100 is a congested price point and I personally prefer other sets. That my favourite sets by KZ are the Z1 TWS and the EDX (after fitting a TRN cable and Xelastec tips at greater expense than the EDX itself) says much. I'm just a DD kinda guy.


----------



## Pelicampe (Nov 14, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> You have any links for the $70 price for KZ ASX? As of the time of this post, it still seems to be about $100 for most shops on Aliexpress. It is more expensive on other non Aliexpress sites, eg Amazon too, and I have some friends that don't want to buy from Aliexpress for some reasons eg CS/returns doubt or they just don't deliver to some countries eg Aliexpress seems to have issues with delivering to India due to some conflicts. And I assume we are not talking about having price post coupons or flash sale or 11/11 sale prices.
> 
> I think u can get it slightly cheaper if u follow some Aliexpress stores for a fan discount, have seen it is at the OPA Audio store for $79 - 81 USD depending on mic vs non mic version. Haven't tried OPA store, so can't vouch for their reliability.
> But haven't seen that at $70 before coupons/11/11 sale. Plus as discussed, maybe Aliexpress or even taobao (their local market seller) may be cheaper, but a lot of folks are still gonna be buying their CHIFI from other online platforms due to peace of mind/better CS, so I think on average most folks are still gonna be paying close to $100 for it. Though with the polarizing reviews coming out and the usual mark up of just released CHIFI, I would bet the ASX will drop in price over the next few weeks.
> ...





Just before 11.11 sales, it was common to see ASX @ €66. I saw a store @62.

2 weeks before sales, Price drop to 85
During sales, coupons stacking down it to 60.

Now, I just take a tour on AE and can see them @60€ on MissAudio...


----------



## astermk

Pelicampe said:


> Just before 11.11 sales, it was common to see ASX @ €66. I saw a store @62.
> 
> 2 weeks before sales, Price drop to 85
> During sales, coupons stacking down it to 60.
> ...


11.11 prices were absolutely not that good in most cases, even after stacking coupons and coins. I was eyeing the Moondrop SSR and I didn't see those below $33 on 11.11, they were $28 two weeks prior. The only unbeatable 11.11 deal I remember was Tin T2 Plus at $34. It's supposed to retail for $60.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Honestly, only for obsessed curiosity or review, pass this and choose another, it's one the worst iem I had this year. 

The old kz as10 is better ( less deep bass, but better signature, and for me They got old comparing to another choice on market


----------



## Jonatan

TechnoidFR said:


> Honestly, only for obsessed curiosity or review, pass this and choose another, it's one the worst iem I had this year.
> 
> The old kz as10 is better ( less deep bass, but better signature, and for me They got old comparing to another choice on market


Which iem are you talking about?


----------



## TechnoidFR

Jonatan said:


> Which iem are you talking about?


KZ ASX


----------



## Pelicampe

astermk said:


> 11.11 prices were absolutely not that good in most cases, even after stacking coupons and coins. I was eyeing the Moondrop SSR and I didn't see those below $33 on 11.11, they were $28 two weeks prior. The only unbeatable 11.11 deal I remember was Tin T2 Plus at $34. It's supposed to retail for $60.



It depends on the case. : followed the LZ A7 and Nm2 +. 

The A7 is currently at 270 on average. only one store sells it at 240. I got it at 203 during the sales of 11.11. 
A forumer had more coupons and could get it at 189! 

The nm2 + is currently at 120 and I could find it at 95 with coupons-fu.


----------



## Pelicampe

TechnoidFR said:


> Honestly, only for obsessed curiosity or review, pass this and choose another, it's one the worst iem I had this year.
> 
> The old kz as10 is better ( less deep bass, but better signature, and for me They got old comparing to another choice on market



Was interested by AS08... But review on AE are on the same way of ASF/ASX.

Some like them and some really doesn't. And I feel it's more exacerbated with those last products !?

so I prefer to pass this time...


----------



## Viber

I wonder how the new blon bl01 competes with kz.  Apperantly it's an upgraded version of the bl03 (weird...)


----------



## TechnoidFR

Pelicampe said:


> Was interested by AS08... But review on AE are on the same way of ASF/ASX.
> 
> Some like them and some really doesn't. And I feel it's more exacerbated with those last products !?
> 
> so I prefer to pass this time...


As08 I don't try too but realtek Bluetooth module plus ba. I think it result of weird and aggressive sound, especially treble ( Im pretty sure that they copy ca16 signature) with big noise. Without listening anything on... It's that?

Asx is just weird, tuning is horrible and clearly boring, aggressive, disturbing but not good. Like a brand which try a special tuning...3 years ago...


----------



## PhonoPhi

I can't wait getting and hopefully very much enjoying my ASX  

The most anticipated IEM of this year for me (and special "thanks" to Canada Post for even slower than usual delivery)


----------



## sebek

Pelicampe said:


> It depends on the case. : followed the LZ A7 and Nm2 +.
> 
> The A7 is currently at 270 on average. only one store sells it at 240. I got it at 203 during the sales of 11.11.
> A forumer had more coupons and could get it at 189!
> ...


They are the two that I followed the most on 11.11 but in the end I was not convinced and I took tri i3 at 92 € which seemed to me a super price.


----------



## Pelicampe

Viber said:


> I wonder how the new blon bl01 competes with kz.  Apperantly it's an upgraded version of the bl03 (weird...)



Waiting for them too 

@TechnoidFR : I already got KZ S2 and be happy with. Some connectivity bugs, but it's ok, I can support them.
But with the good eq, they sound punchy with a nice warm sound. Sweet to do some job @ home with them. .   
Can post my settings if anyone interested.

so i was really interested by sa08 for an resolution upgrade. waiting for "official" review....

Concerning CA16, with eq'ing, they look like a mini H40 in some way.


@sebek : Hope WE be both happy with our choice !


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

baskingshark said:


> I think u can get it slightly cheaper if u follow some Aliexpress stores for a fan discount, have seen it is at the OPA Audio store for $79 - 81 USD depending on mic vs non mic version. Haven't tried OPA store, so can't vouch for their reliability.



I purchased IEM cases twice from OPA Audio store, they were able to ship it reliably. So I think it's legit. I bought a Lark and EDX from them during this sale. I didn't know about the 55 USD follower discount, or ignored it. Had I pooled my other orders [2x BL-01] into that store, I could have got the coupon for orders over 55 USD.

So remember, check follower discounts and large order discounts before placing orders. _Pool your orders._


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

astermk said:


> 11.11 prices were absolutely not that good in most cases, even after stacking coupons and coins. I was eyeing the Moondrop SSR and I didn't see those below $33 on 11.11, they were $28 two weeks prior. The only unbeatable 11.11 deal I remember was Tin T2 Plus at $34. It's supposed to retail for $60.



Yes, there were good deals on the T2 Plus.

I managed to get an NM2+ down to $126 USD, but didn't buy it as I wasn't sure about the signature. Although, probably I should have since I could have sold it for what I paid for it!


----------



## Floschi12345

I must say...contrary to the reviews and most opinions here, I DO like the ASX. It is a given that the stock cable and stock tips are horrible. I use them with a Pentaconn 4.4mm balanced cable and Spinfit SP-800 tips in size L, with which I get a really deep insertion. And, voila, to me they sound great out of my M11. I have to say that I am not a big treble-head and I enjoy them. They are not jaw-dropping but to me they are surely also not the abomination they are made out to be by most...


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

astermk said:


> 11.11 prices were absolutely not that good in most cases, even after stacking coupons and coins. I was eyeing the Moondrop SSR and I didn't see those below $33 on 11.11, they were $28 two weeks prior. The only unbeatable 11.11 deal I remember was Tin T2 Plus at $34. It's supposed to retail for $60.



They were good on some stores and meh on others. I got Smabat NCO+Kbear Rhyme cable combined for $53 with coupons and discounts. It's a damn good deal considering lowest they were priced was around $44 on all stores with coupons. Also popular items like KZ ASF and others had special coupons on most stores as additional discount. Although like SSR some iems didn't have great discounts. Also T2+ does not retail at $60 it's usually around $48-50 mark and can be had for $44-45 on most days.


----------



## MacAttack7

Floschi12345 said:


> I must say...contrary to the reviews and most opinions here, I DO like the ASX. It is a given that the stock cable and stock tips are horrible. I use them with a Pentaconn 4.4mm balanced cable and Spinfit SP-800 tips in size L, with which I get a really deep insertion. And, voila, to me they sound great out of my M11. I have to say that I am not a big treble-head and I enjoy them. They are not jaw-dropping but to me they are surely also not the abomination they are made out to be by most...


I wonder how SpinFits affect the sound as I noticed they have a narrower opening than what was sent with the ASF/ASX.
You notice any difference?


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> I wonder how the new blon bl01 competes with kz.  Apperantly it's an upgraded version of the bl03 (weird...)



In the cheap IEM world, I will stick with KZ, CCA and TFZ...

also awaiting review from head fiers for the total knockouts...

I already spent too much... so the next one that I buy must be really really good


----------



## alamnp

MacAttack7 said:


> I wonder how SpinFits affect the sound as I noticed they have a narrower opening than what was sent with the ASF/ASX.
> You notice any difference?



it seems ASX/ASF following CA16 mistake...

CA16 nobody bothers to change the tip, hence the sound profile sucks so much because of poor isolation and leakage


----------



## purplesun (Nov 14, 2020)

alamnp said:


> CA16 nobody bothers to change the tip, hence the sound profile sucks so much because of poor isolation and leakage


Agreed.
IMHO, synergy between music content, playback system and earphones/headphones is quite an important aspect.
It takes time and effort to get the entire system sounding just right.
Although, sometimes, you do get a "stinker" in the chain that no amount of fiddling can fix the sound.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> Agreed.
> IMHO, synergy between music content, playback system and earphones/headphones is quite an important aspect.
> It takes time and effort to get the entire system sounding just right.
> Although, sometimes, you do get a "stinker" in the chain that no amount of fiddling can fix the sound.



It’s like buying a car, and not taking the time to adjust the seat so it is comfortable with personalized  ergonomics and allows you to reach the pedals properly, not adjusting the steering wheel so that it is comfortable to hold, and not adjusting all of the mirrors so that you can see everything perfectly.

Sure, you can get into a random car and drive it “ok” without adjusting all of those things (like if you are borrowing a friend’s car and don’t want to mess up their settings). But if you are REALLY going to drive a car well and use it to it’s full potential, you need to take the time to adjust those things to fit your personal anatomy and tastes.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Pelicampe said:


> Waiting for them too
> 
> @TechnoidFR : I already got KZ S2 and be happy with. Some connectivity bugs, but it's ok, I can support them.
> But with the good eq, they sound punchy with a nice warm sound. Sweet to do some job @ home with them. .
> ...



KZ S2 overboost 10khz area with boring 7mm DD. KZ z1 are clearly better. No need settings and don't want to do settings...


----------



## TechnoidFR

alamnp said:


> it seems ASX/ASF following CA16 mistake...
> 
> CA16 nobody bothers to change the tip, hence the sound profile sucks so much because of poor isolation and leakage


Maybe same team which works on. That explains lot of things... These tips... Why?


----------



## MacAttack7

TechnoidFR said:


> Maybe same team which works on. That explains lot of things... These tips... Why?


What's so bad about the tips? 
They are just pieces of silicone with a hole.
They aren't deformed; the hole is the same size on each; the silicone is soft.
I don't understand why people say the included tips are bad.


----------



## TechnoidFR

MacAttack7 said:


> What's so bad about the tips?
> They are just pieces of silicone with a hole.
> They aren't deformed; the hole is the same size on each; the silicone is soft.
> I don't understand why people say the included tips are bad.



I find them worst than starline and c10 tips better for isolation and bass. 
And in general not very good iem ( KZ s2/ CCA cx10/ CCA ca16)


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> It’s like buying a car, and not taking the time to adjust the seat so it is comfortable with personalized  ergonomics and allows you to reach the pedals properly, not adjusting the steering wheel so that it is comfortable to hold, and not adjusting all of the mirrors so that you can see everything perfectly.
> 
> Sure, you can get into a random car and drive it “ok” without adjusting all of those things (like if you are borrowing a friend’s car and don’t want to mess up their settings). But if you are REALLY going to drive a car well and use it to it’s full potential, you need to take the time to adjust those things to fit your personal anatomy and tastes.



Quite apt that you use a car setup analogy, while I am in the midst of setting up a static racing cockpit with Thrustmaster goodies!  There are millions of adjustments to be made! Am thinking of using AS10 or AS06 (or maybe the arriving ASF) with this setup up. The BAs' bass, mid & transcient perfomance should work well with the sound effects in the game.


----------



## seanwee

purplesun said:


> Quite apt that you use a car setup analogy, while I am in the midst of setting up a static racing cockpit with Thrustmaster goodies!


VR, multi-monitor or just single monitor?


----------



## purplesun (Nov 15, 2020)

seanwee said:


> VR, multi-monitor or just single monitor?


Gigabyte 34 inch ultrawide G34WQC, maybe VR later.

EDIT: For info;
Win10, i5-9600k, RTX2060, Gigabyte G34WQC, T300 Ferrari, TH8A, T-LCM, GR racing cockpit.
Probably KZ AS06 via FiiO 10k for 2-channel sound. Still WIP.


----------



## InvisibleInk

alamnp said:


> it seems ASX/ASF following CA16 mistake...
> 
> CA16 nobody bothers to change the tip, hence the sound profile sucks so much because of poor isolation and leakage



And I found it needs a good power source in addition to Spinfits. My DAPs just couldn't do it. My HipDAC, iFi iDSD BL, and even my DAC X6 smooth out the grainy treble my DAPs were offering up. Now I like the CA16 quite a lot.


----------



## alamnp

purplesun said:


> Agreed.
> IMHO, synergy between music content, playback system and earphones/headphones is quite an important aspect.
> It takes time and effort to get the entire system sounding just right.
> Although, sometimes, you do get a "stinker" in the chain that no amount of fiddling can fix the sound.



I found out that the difference between budget extra cheap CHIFI and regular budget CHIFI was in the amount of accessories and the quality of the cable. 
I have some TFZs which costs $100+, they gave me 3 sets of ear tips, and a really good cable. 

With CCA CA16, that extra $30 for the ear tips and $20 for the cable exactly priced the same as TFZ no. 3. 

I ended up keeping CA16, since I already paid $50 extra for nonrefundable cable and ear tips, otherwise I will keep TFZ no. 3 instead of CA16.

The difference between both IEM give and take 5% here and there. 

I wish the extra cheap budget CHIFI will improve to regular budget CHIFI by adding necessary accessories, taking out Due Diligence and unnecessary purchase to improve what is supposed to be already there.


----------



## baskingshark

Viber said:


> I wonder how the new blon bl01 competes with kz.  Apperantly it's an upgraded version of the bl03 (weird...)



Depends on which KZ, maybe a fair comparison would be with the EDX, since both are single DD types that are at the cheaper rung.

It would be kinda apples and oranges comparison to compare the single DD BL-01 with those multi BA/hybrid KZs as in general, at the budget segment, the single DD types tend to have better timbre/tonality, whereas the multi driver types tend to have better technical performance, but may have timbre/crossover/coherency issues.

Exceptions exist of course, but I would see KZ multi driver types and the single DD BL-01 as complimentary rather than competing IEMs. They can suit different music genres and sonic preferences with the different things they bring to the table.





Slater said:


> It’s like buying a car, and not taking the time to adjust the seat so it is comfortable with personalized  ergonomics and allows you to reach the pedals properly, not adjusting the steering wheel so that it is comfortable to hold, and not adjusting all of the mirrors so that you can see everything perfectly.
> 
> Sure, you can get into a random car and drive it “ok” without adjusting all of those things (like if you are borrowing a friend’s car and don’t want to mess up their settings). But if you are REALLY going to drive a car well and use it to it’s full potential, you need to take the time to adjust those things to fit your personal anatomy and tastes.



I agree 100% with this, I try not to give up on a crap sounding IEM, will try tip rolling, mods, KIV different sources or even different cables. I go thru about 5 - 10 tips before calling it a day. If all of us gave up on the crap fit of the BLON BL-03 with stock tips/cables, we would be missing a genuinely good and cheap set for just a slight bit of effort to change tips/do spacer mods.

But I see the other side of the coin, a lot of laymen who are new to this hobby or just general consumers will not be interested in tiprolling or mods. They will just use whatever is inside the box, and if it sounds bad, it sounds bad. More so for a more expensive IEM. Like for example, a friend of mine tried the TRN VX I lent him. I found the TRN VX to be a banshee that is very shrill in the upper mids/lower treble, and I only could use it with a micropore mod or EQ (it was quite a good technical performer with these mods). My friend took a 5 min listen and returned it stat, saying that a $90 USD IEM shouldn't need people to modify it to make it listenable. Perfectly understandable for the price. If it were a cheaper type, people are more forgiving, but once u go close to $100 USD, people expect more. FWIW, the TRN VX has steadily dropped in price since the $90 USD launch price, I ever saw it at $50 USD in a local shop (first hand), probably cause of the lukewarm reviews.





MacAttack7 said:


> What's so bad about the tips?
> They are just pieces of silicone with a hole.
> They aren't deformed; the hole is the same size on each; the silicone is soft.
> I don't understand why people say the included tips are bad.



Eartips can make or break an IEM, most CHIFI companies skimp at the accessories component to save costs. But as we discussed about the BLON BL-03, giving a crap stock eartip is gonna be detrimental to their sound actually.

Eartip preferences are as individual as shoes though, different ones of us have different ear anatomies and different preferred sonic signatures and hearing health (eartips can change the sound quite a fair bit). Eartips also affect comfort and isolation, I do think they are a very overlooked part of an IEM. In fact I dare say tips affect the sound more than cable changes, and may be a more affordable area to modify sound than buying expensive cables.

FWIW, in general I find foam tips tame treble. For silicone tips, I find wider bore ones boost treble whereas narrower bore ones increase bass.



alamnp said:


> I found out that the difference between budget extra cheap CHIFI and regular budget CHIFI was in the amount of accessories and the quality of the cable.
> I have some TFZs which costs $100+, they gave me 3 sets of ear tips, and a really good cable.
> 
> With CCA CA16, that extra $30 for the ear tips and $20 for the cable exactly priced the same as TFZ no. 3.
> ...



Wait till u see the TRN BA8. It is a $140 USD (at launch) IEM, comes with (******** drumroll ********) similar accessories seen in their $30 USD TRN sets: a few silicone tips, a usual tangly filmsy stock cable. Just to show that it is a flagship TRN, they added a TRN round metal case, which costs a princely $3 USD on aliexpress. Photos here:




I dunno whether to laugh or cry. I seen $30 - 40 USD IEMs with better accessories eg HZSound Heart Mirror, KBEAR LARK.


----------



## chinmie

i would rather they give me option just to buy the IEM only, without any cables or tips, as i usually wouod just leave them on the box anyway. that would make them even cheaper and smaller to ship.


----------



## courierdriver

Viber said:


> I wonder how the new blon bl01 competes with kz.  Apperantly it's an upgraded version of the bl03 (weird...)


I'll let you know once I get them. I got them on Aliexpress a few days before the 11/11 sale for $21.01 CDN. Bought them cause I just received a month old set of 03's that I traded for a brand new in box Urbanfun ISSO14. Love the Bl 03 way more. As for the KZ stuff, I'm loving my ZS10 PRO. I had the ZAX in my cart on Aliexpress, but have decided to wait till I've had more time with both my newly acquired BLON sets. Black Friday sales are around the corner, so ZAX is still a possibility in the near future.


----------



## unifutomaki

MacAttack7 said:


> What's so bad about the tips?
> They are just pieces of silicone with a hole.
> They aren't deformed; the hole is the same size on each; the silicone is soft.
> I don't understand why people say the included tips are bad.



Even as a cable skeptic, I would readily acknowledge that tips make a genuine and measurable difference in how an IEM sounds. It's not only about finding an appropriately sized tip for your ear canal; tips affect the effectiveness of the seal between the IEM and your ear, how the nozzle is angled within your ear, and the kind of resonance that results when sound waves from the nozzle bounce off the inner walls of the eartip. I would spend money on tips before spending money on a cable, that's for certain.


----------



## voicemaster

BL03 is just a special IEM. Every time I listen to it, I just lost in the music, not thinking about the flaw, too little treble, too much bass or what not. Just pure music bliss.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> BL03 is just a special IEM. Every time I listen to it, I just lost in the music, not thinking about the flaw, too little treble, too much bass or what not. Just pure music bliss.



I found TFZ Tequila likewise, pure music bliss.


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> BL03 is just a special IEM. Every time I listen to it, I just lost in the music, not thinking about the flaw, too little treble, too much bass or what not. Just pure music bliss.


I much agree with that. Glad I finally got a set for myself after many positive accolades. I was initially scared off because of potential fit issues, but after a few mods with tips and a cable swap, I totally enjoy the 03. I regret not having jumped on these much sooner.


----------



## kameenadesi (Nov 15, 2020)

absolutely loving the KZ ASX paired with LG V40(with shure impedance adapter)... don't have much to compare, just the ATH-IM02...  I've had the ASX for 3 days now and the sound finally opened up yesterday (I think the drivers have burned-in pretty well by now), make sure you have a good fit, currently using the stock tips and i'm very pleased with the sound.
Genre: Uplifting Trance

prefer the ASX over my previous IEMs too:
Massdrop Plus, Shuoer Tape, and IM02

Really wanted to order the TRI i3 or Audiosense T800, but got the ASX last minute after seeing this thread.


----------



## unifutomaki

kameenadesi said:


> I think the drivers have burned-in pretty well by now



BA burn in... yeah.


----------



## kameenadesi

unifutomaki said:


> BA burn in... yeah.


I feel there was a burn-in, wasn't enjoying the sound as much out of the box, compared to now.  The sound is much more complete now.


----------



## voicemaster

kameenadesi said:


> I feel there was a burn-in, wasn't enjoying the sound as much out of the box, compared to now.  The sound is much more complete now.


I felt that way too when first got mine, everything was sounded cramped together and suddenly it opened up like "what the F" and everything started coming together. Very weird indeed.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> I felt that way too when first got mine, everything was sounded cramped together and suddenly it opened up like "what the F" and everything started coming together. Very weird indeed.



how many hours burn in? 50 hours minimum like TFZ?


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> how many hours burn in? 50 hours minimum like TFZ?


For me, it started to really changed at around 20 hours.


----------



## Gummybuns

I do not know if it's burn in or placebo. But yeah, it did sound "cleaner" compared to out of the box performance after a while.


----------



## Floschi12345

The ASX seem to need a really good fit. And should have the vent non-blocked. With the Spinfits it is just a great earphone with lots of micro-detail, clean bass and treble. As with In-Ears in general proper fit, seal and tip-rolling for his/her own ears is of the utmost essence to get most out of them. And not all non-costum IEMs are for every ear. I will not say that the ASX sound like a custom In-Ear costing several hundred dollars but with a little effort the can sound really, really good!


----------



## Floschi12345

Plus: Do not dismiss "brain burn-in". Your hearing gets used to different sound signatures: Just do an experiment: When I listen to my HD600s out of a tube amp, I absolutely adore them. I love the smoothness, the detail, you can listen for hours, just perfect. Now: When I switch to my Beyerdynamics DT990 out of a solid-state amp, the treble seems harsh, metallic, fatiguing, but after a while I also love them and love the treble. When I now switch back to the Senns they will seem dark, veiled, etc... I think you get what I want to say...I always made it my principle not to dismiss a headphone before at least spending a full day with them. And this principled suited me well!


----------



## unifutomaki

The thing about brain burn-in, however, is that it tends to make everything that isn't broken sound better or at least "acceptable". The brain is an extremely adaptable organ, and it is simply a matter of growing accustomed to the idiosyncrasies of the sound, especially in the absence of a point of comparison. How else would people be able to listen to iPhone pack-in earbuds unironically?


----------



## Viber

baskingshark said:


> Depends on which KZ, maybe a fair comparison would be with the EDX, since both are single DD types that are at the cheaper rung.
> 
> It would be kinda apples and oranges comparison to compare the single DD BL-01 with those multi BA/hybrid KZs as in general, at the budget segment, the single DD types tend to have better timbre/tonality, whereas the multi driver types tend to have better technical performance, but may have timbre/crossover/coherency issues.
> 
> Exceptions exist of course, but I would see KZ multi driver types and the single DD BL-01 as complimentary rather than competing IEMs. They can suit different music genres and sonic preferences with the different things they bring to the table.



I'm not sure this is accurate.  
I see the BL03 in comparisons with Tin T2\+ and they seem to compete well with them, just a matter of taste.

"Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews" who got the BL01 first is a pretty critical reviewer ,yet he said they are an improvement from the old Blon03 in various aspects and calls them "The new Budget KING for 30$".
Mind you, he rated the Blon03 as A+ while he rated the AS10 (which he really liked) as C+, ZS10p as C+.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TH9_bqUq1vANsFiXVbVZ6w8kVA9C3DkknnMGyIcKE7M/edit#gid=0

So yeah, it's only one guy, but it's not the first time i see someone prefer Blon over KZ so i am curious.


----------



## hmscott (Nov 15, 2020)

It's been a weird week... so many reasons, but the weirdest reason is my surprised disappointment with the KZ ASX.  Triple Painful.

Painful as in physically so.  It's too big and keeps popping out of my ears, and it's painful while doing it.

But, that wasn't the first painful thing I noticed about the KZ ASX, that would be the "fixed curved" ear bends in the cable.  The tight fit of the IEM in my ear keeps pulling against the cable and that plastic tubing hard bend dragging over my ear eventually caused an "ouch" moment - and worse I pulled it and the IEM stuck in my ear and I had painful moments pulling off the IEM and cable.

So I swapped cables, I put on the KBEAR 4n 99.99% silver which actually sounds great on the KZ ASX - up to a point, more on that pain in a moment - and I then tried to not seat the ASX quite so firmly in my ear - as that is painful after a medium time period - but then the ASX pops out when I move.

The third painful thing about the ASX is the sound.  IDK if I have a bad pair - both hit the same threshold of volume and produce bad sounds.  The threshold is there in all material, just when the volume starts getting close to an enjoyable level - music, movies, youtube, the sound goes south - the KZ ASX sounds bad to me.

If I pull back below my normal listening level the ASX sounds great.  Nice sound stage, 3D elements appear as others have mentioned, and the KZ ASX is smooth and enjoyable.  But, when I turn them up their sound "crumble's" in my ears.

I've been burning them in but they aren't changing that threshold limit of volume.  They are sounding smoother in the range I can listen to, but the threshold of pain is still there.

Fortunately, the KZ ZSX's are still hanging in there sounding sweet and fine all the time - I can rock out, listen intently at a raised volume, or turn them down - all good.

I was going to ask for another pair of ASX's hoping I got a pair from a bad batch, but then there is their huge size - IDK if I want those in my ears for long periods even if I could rock out with them.

I'll continue running the ASX's on their own and see if anything changes...

Has anyone else experienced this painful sound transition threshold with their KZ ASX?

The week did bring some good news as I opened the NiceHCK NX7 MK3's and they are sounding great out of the box with the Blue Filtered sound as my favorite.  I will leave the Blue filters in while I am breaking in these NiceHCK NX7 MK3's.

I think the NiceHCK included mixed copper/silver plated cable is a good part of the NiceHCK NX7 MK3's great sound, with the new MK3 tuning + Blue filter's as the star contributor.  More on these in another thread.


----------



## Sebulr

hmscott said:


> It's been a weird week... so many reasons, but the weirdest reason is my surprised disappointment with the KZ ASX.  Triple Painful.
> 
> Painful as in physically so.  It's too big and keeps popping out of my ears, and it's painful while doing it.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm. I haven't got the Asx. But this is almost my exact experience with the kbear kb10, a 5 ba iem. They only cost me £20 though, so it isn't as bad. The bass is too light, for my musical preferences, and I tamed the upper mid screechiness with a tape mod.


----------



## Viber

Sooo.... Anyone got those 10$ ZS10 pros from Ebay? 
A month has passed and that store didn't shut down yet, last feedback from Oct 26.


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 15, 2020)

Viber said:


> I'm not sure this is accurate.
> I see the BL03 in comparisons with Tin T2\+ and they seem to compete well with them, just a matter of taste.
> 
> "Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews" who got the BL01 first is a pretty critical reviewer ,yet he said they are an improvement from the old Blon03 in various aspects and calls them "The new Budget KING for 30$".
> ...



That's exactly my point. Single DD types like Tin T2 plus and BL03 and KZ EDX can be fairly compared cause they are all single DD budget sets.

The multi drivers that u mentioned like AS10 and ZS10 pro beat the BLON BL03 in technicalities like details, instrument separation and clarity cause of the different driver types (transducer). But they are worse than the BL03 in timbre. So an apples to oranges comparison for single DD versus multi driver types due to their different strengths and weaknesses. Certain music genres pair better with single DDs like the BL03, whereas others do better with the multi driver techinical types. Some folks prefer technicalities, some folks go for timbre/tonality.

There's exceptions of course, I've auditioned 2 single DD types that had technicalities that could compete with multi BA types (the DUNU LUNA and Final Audio A8000), but those are kilobuck TOTL single DD sets. Some more expensive multi driver types also may have good tonality and timbre, but these are generally not at the budget segment.

FWIW I am a single DD guy and i also like the BLON BL-03 more than the multi driver KZs cause i prioritize timbre and tonality over technicalities, but objectively the BL03 won't beat a lot of sets in technicalities. I know a certain youtube reviewer considers the BL03 a giant killer but the poor technicalities and midbass bloat (and atrocious fit) hold it back from a true giant killer. But what the BL03 does well (tonality and timbre), it really is excellent in these areas, and I am actually using the BL03 now while I am typing this.

As for lists of subjective rankings, they are a good guide but not the gospel truth, best u hear a few iems for yourself and see if the reviewer has your same tastes in sonic signature (eg BGGAR is a basshead) or music genres.


----------



## Pelicampe (Nov 15, 2020)

hmscott said:


> It's been a weird week... so many reasons, but the weirdest reason is my surprised disappointment with the KZ ASX.  Triple Painful.
> 
> Painful as in physically so.  It's too big and keeps popping out of my ears, and it's painful while doing it.
> 
> ...




We really have the impression of quality control problems ...

How can ASX sound so good to some and also horrible to others?

It would take two users, happy/unhappy, to exchange their pairs and make a reliable comparison ...

Edit : I only read KZ's things since one year and I don't remember ever having read such different opinions at this point.


----------



## Pelicampe

TechnoidFR said:


> KZ S2 overboost 10khz area with boring 7mm DD. KZ z1 are clearly better. No need settings and don't want to do settings...



Smile dude it is just a hobby ! 

10 kHz overboost killed by equalization and muddiness removed by the same way.
7mm DD find a new life ! Trust me...

It's the problem with cable swapping, it can't work on TWS for ajust them to your taste.

And as much I am a tips believer, I am not convinced by cable...
Equalizing is more easy for that and especially less cost than a bunch collection of 99,99999999+ things... 
Haven't got any loss in SQ, any glitchs anyway.

FWIW, don't want to start a new debat on this.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Pelicampe said:


> Smile dude it is just a hobby !
> 
> 10 kHz overboost killed by equalization and muddiness removed by the same way.
> 7mm DD find a new life ! Trust me...
> ...


I'm just a reviewer, I understand your pov but I don't search to use eq, if brand sell it like that, the first thing you try it's this sound. So my opinion is based on stock sound only. I try with tips only sometimes and it's all.
On tws I try only with companion app with existing eq

We just work differently ah ah


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Depends on which KZ, maybe a fair comparison would be with the EDX, since both are single DD types that are at the cheaper rung.
> 
> It would be kinda apples and oranges comparison to compare the single DD BL-01 with those multi BA/hybrid KZs as in general, at the budget segment, the single DD types tend to have better timbre/tonality, whereas the multi driver types tend to have better technical performance, but may have timbre/crossover/coherency issues.
> 
> ...



Adding one more thing about tips is insertion depth on the nozzle. At times that too can mess up the perception of sound. Like for example when I use BL03 with large Starlines, if insert them too deep on the nozzle they sound too hot on the treble suddenly all cymbals begin to make my ears bleed. But just moving them up slightly like almost a couple of twists upwards and they sound completely different. Like super clean and refined with thumping bass and sparkling mids. On KZ if you are using stock tips (which are much better than most stock tips in the budget segment) try using them with varied insertion depths. This is how I smoothened out ZSN's shimmery treble and supposed veiled mids. More often than not it works.


----------



## alamnp

Viber said:


> Sooo.... Anyone got those 10$ ZS10 pros from Ebay?
> A month has passed and that store didn't shut down yet, last feedback from Oct 26.



I did waiting till 12/04 to file dispute


----------



## alamnp

baskingshark said:


> That's exactly my point. Single DD types like Tin T2 plus and BL03 and KZ EDX can be fairly compared cause they are all single DD budget sets.
> 
> The multi drivers that u mentioned like AS10 and ZS10 pro beat the BLON BL03 in technicalities like details, instrument separation and clarity cause of the different driver types (transducer). But they are worse than the BL03 in timbre. So an apples to oranges comparison for single DD versus multi driver types due to their different strengths and weaknesses. Certain music genres pair better with single DDs like the BL03, whereas others do better with the multi driver techinical types. Some folks prefer technicalities, some folks go for timbre/tonality.
> 
> ...



BTW Kbear is out with single DD beryllium driver to match Dunu Luna and A800 for $159. I missed 11.11 for $120. But now, it is not out of reach.

also Kbear Lark will overtake BL03 just IMHO


----------



## Viber (Nov 15, 2020)

alamnp said:


> I did waiting till 12/04 to file dispute



When the negative feedback starts coming, that will be the final nail in that store's coffin.
This is what he wrote to me 2 weeks ago


----------



## Jonatan

alamnp said:


> how many hours burn in? 50 hours minimum like TFZ?


I noticed the same took about 15 hoirs on the ASF


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 15, 2020)

Asound said:


> As much as I am excited regarding these, I also fear them to some extend. All those opposing views. Nevertheless I can't wait to finally have them.
> Also it kind of looks like that there are now more people that like them, compard to those who don't.





Turbulance said:


> Just got my KZ ASX delivered.
> 
> Very happy. Extremely detailed sound and I'm hearing a few things I've not noticed in my other IEMs.





Viber said:


> So, from the impressions on the ASX and ASF so far i gather their performance is somewhere between excellent and atrocious.





MacAttack7 said:


> With Breaking Benjamin I'm not sure what I was hearing. I liked it on the ASF, but I'm not used to that kind of music.
> There was a fuller, warmer, bass sound on the ASF, and a lighter sound on the Sennheisers.





cleg said:


> So, here is my video about KZ ASF. It's really fun to see such polar opinions for this model, but in my opinion, everything is simple. KZ created another "anti-audiophiliac" model. Some people projected their expectation for a "5/10 balanced armatures model" to those IEMs and were disappointed that they aren't super neutral mega natural, etc, and got disappointment. Those, who've expected KZ signature sound will get it: fun, bassy, energetic, and will love it





Turbulance said:


> As far as this pair of ASX, I am very happy with their sound. To be honest I really like the tuning of these IEMs, I do not find the bass to be muddy and neither do I find them dark. Not sure why some of the reviews have been so negative.





digitalazer said:


> Now for the ASX. I'm sadly disappointed with it after looking so forward to it.  Vocal clarity and imaging is great and is somewhat slightly better than the ZAX, especially listening to rain / thunder tracks on Spotify. Otherwise, the overall sound comes off as muffled even after changing out the stock tips. It became too annoying after expecting brain burn-in after a couple of days but these are going bye-bye.





richario said:


> Over the years I've had HDS1, HDS2, HDS3, ED3 acme & perfection, ED7, ED9, ZSA, ZS5i & ii, ZS6, ZS7, ZS10, AS10, AS12, and now ASF.
> 
> Top 3 would be AS10, ASF, and ZS7. I've settled on Sony MH750 tips for the ASF and am really enjoying the sound. Yet to see if they will dethrone the AS10 - I just.love this signature, and the ASF has a similar tune, it just feels a little crisper while still maintaining strong bass and mids with clear but rolled off treble. Also all 3 are really good pairs with the BT20s and pros which is important to me.
> 
> Feels like I may need to cave and try the BA10...





PhonoPhi said:


> I can't wait getting and hopefully very much enjoying my ASX





kameenadesi said:


> absolutely loving the KZ ASX paired with LG V40(with shure impedance adapter)... don't have much to compare, just the ATH-IM02...  I've had the ASX for 3 days now and the sound finally opened up yesterday (I think the drivers have burned-in pretty well by now), make sure you have a good fit, currently using the stock tips and i'm very pleased with the sound.
> Genre: Uplifting Trance
> 
> prefer the ASX over my previous IEMs too:
> Massdrop Plus, Shuoer Tape, and IM02





Floschi12345 said:


> The ASX seem to need a really good fit. And should have the vent non-blocked. With the Spinfits it is just a great earphone with lots of micro-detail, clean bass and treble. As with In-Ears in general proper fit, seal and tip-rolling for his/her own ears is of the utmost essence to get most out of them. And not all non-costum IEMs are for every ear. I will not say that the ASX sound like a custom In-Ear costing several hundred dollars but with a little effort the can sound really, really good!





hmscott said:


> The third painful thing about the ASX is the sound.  IDK if I have a bad pair - both hit the same threshold of volume and produce bad sounds.  The threshold is there in all material, just when the volume starts getting close to an enjoyable level - music, movies, youtube, the sound goes south - the KZ ASX sounds bad to me.
> 
> If I pull back below my normal listening level the ASX sounds great.  Nice sound stage, 3D elements appear as others have mentioned, and the KZ ASX is smooth and enjoyable.  But, when I turn them up their sound "crumble's" in my ears.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this painful sound transition threshold with their KZ ASX?





Pelicampe said:


> How can ASX sound so good to some and also horrible to others?
> 
> Edit : I only read KZ's things since one year and I don't remember ever having read such different opinions at this point.




If you are getting an ASF this is stuff that sounds great on the ASF (and probably ASX).
On well-recorded tracks the ASF should sound warm and detailed not muffled and congested. Tip rolling may be necessary.

Also, as a rule, BA in-ears should be listened to at moderate levels (no blasting).



Spoiler

















In general I don't think the ASF was designed for EDM but this will do fine.







This is stuff that sounds awkward or awful on the ASF (and probably ASX):



Spoiler


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Sooo.... Anyone got those 10$ ZS10 pros from Ebay?
> A month has passed and that store didn't shut down yet, last feedback from Oct 26.



Oh wow, I totally forgot about those. Seems like ages ago


----------



## Jonatan

Alpha Whale said:


> If you are getting an ASF this is stuff that sounds great on the ASF (and probably ASX).
> On well-recorded tracks the ASF should sound warm and detailed not muffled and congested.
> 
> Also, as a rule, BA in-ears should be listened to at moderate levels (no blasting).
> ...



Actually i quite enjoy* def leppard on my asf
also i dont see any problems with my asf while listening at guite loud volumes*


----------



## voicemaster

I actually like to listen at a higher volume on my ASF and ASX. Depends on the songs too. Breaking Benjamin - So Cold sounds better at higher volume.


----------



## PhonoPhi

In preparation for ASX coming, I got this, a clinical approach to tips:



Now I am all ready to thoroughly explore the narrow-bore tips (and to paraphrase) to boldly go beyond the limits of what aural probes can teach us


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> Oh wow, I totally forgot about those. Seems like ages ago



lol that's what i was thinking as well.
"What?! i ordered those zs10 months ago! where the hell is it?!
... oh, barely 4 weeks have passed..."


----------



## trumpethead

Viber said:


> Sooo.... Anyone got those 10$ ZS10 pros from Ebay?
> A month has passed and that store didn't shut down yet, last feedback from Oct 26.


I'm keeping up hope that this is not a scam and they will show up eventually. My estimated Delivery is 12/5 so I got a ways to go. I ordered 2 so worse case scenario I file a claim with ebay and get my 20 bucks back.... We will see.....


----------



## Viber

trumpethead said:


> I'm keeping up hope that this is not a scam and they will show up eventually. My estimated Delivery is 12/5 so I got a ways to go. I ordered 2 so worse case scenario I file a claim with ebay and get my 20 bucks back.... We will see.....



What will you do if something like zsn pro will show up instead?


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 15, 2020)

Jonatan said:


> Actually i quite enjoy* def leppard on my asf
> also i dont see any problems with my asf while listening at guite loud volumes*





voicemaster said:


> I actually like to listen at a higher volume on my ASF and ASX. Depends on the songs too. Breaking Benjamin - So Cold sounds better at higher volume.



I find BA resolution and definition to be so increased over DD resolution that it's not necessary for me to increase volume in order for me to experience an engaging and clear presentation.  Moderate to slightly above moderate volume is usually enough for me to hear everything with verve and absolute clarity. Love the hobby and want to continue it for years to come so I'm always thinking long term when it comes to hearing, tinnitus, etc..



PhonoPhi said:


> In preparation for ASX coming, I got this, a clinical approach to tips:
> 
> Now I am all ready to thoroughly explore the narrow-bore tips (and to paraphrase) to boldly go beyond the limits of what aural probes can teach us



Looking forward to your thoughts on the ASX.

I might just buy a 3rd AS12 before KZ changes something as they often make unannounced changes.

Also, interested in your thoughts on AS12 treble (you mentioned filters in the past). If I had to pick just one set out of my entire collection (100+ budget in-ears) the AS12 would be vying for the top of my list. I'd have to inventory and sample everything extensively but at the moment I can't think of another set I'd choose over them in order to cover all the bases. They respond very well to EQ so even tuning them for fun gives an extraordinarily clean but "fun" presentation.

It's a pity there is so little feedback on them. I suppose they got lost in the shuffle somewhere between the release of the ZSX and the AS16.

It wouldn't be the first time that that has happened.

Never went for the AS16 because Crabdog found them to be very similar to the CCA A10 (with negligible differences) and I wasn't a fan of the A10 boosted upper midrange. From memory, B9Scrambler found the upper midrange a bit too much as well.

HBB found the AS12 upper midrange occasionally crossing his tolerance threshold but I've not had one single incident, not even one, of the upper midrange overstepping.

I may pick up a ZAX and a ZSX but that will be mostly to satisfy my curiosity about them.

Has anyone else here experienced the AS12?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 15, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> I find BA resolution and definition to be so increased over DD resolution that it's not necessary for me to increase volume in order for me to experience an engaging and clear presentation.  Moderate to slightly above moderate volume is usually enough to hear everything with verve and absolute clarity. Love the hobby and want to continue it for years to come so I'm always thinking long term when it comes to hearing, tinnitus, etc..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love AS12 lows - easily the best (and I have Knowles and Sonion to compare); the mids are OK, the treble is quite suppressed to my tastes. AS12 have a heavy treble filter, once removed  - it is a treble beast (leaving A10/KB10 pale in contrast).
So really, AS12 can be a mighty potent IEM for $50-$55 when one will customize the treble to their liking!
To some it can be a stock version, but taking the treble filters is easy (great instructions of Master @Slater is out there) and then using different foams in the nozzle to get what you prefer in treble (a lot is there to filter/modify) can make AS12 your best modified IEM.

AS16 are my top favourites now, with their elevated sparkly treble (it works well with most classical recordings to my taste); C16 for lush thick mids; and midcentric Hisenior U4 (4 Knowles) for pristine clarity - I am very much all-BA aficionado

P. S. Edited U4/U8


----------



## voicemaster

Oh I think I know why some people have bad sounding ASF/ASX and some are not. I was playing Dota and I was using Mifo 07 and the battery went low in the beginning of the game. So, I just grab my ZAX that is connected to my Fiio E7 as a wired backup. After finishing the game, I was curious and replace the ZAX with ASF and the sound was muffled, no treble and congested. I am using a tripowin cable, then I tried to flip the 2pin connector and it changed the sound to the one that I am accustomed to. I also tried using the silver cable that came with it and the TRN BT20S pro sounds better.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Oh I think I know why some people have bad sounding ASF/ASX and some are not. I was playing Dota and I was using Mifo 07 and the battery went low in the beginning of the game. So, I just grab my ZAX that is connected to my Fiio E7 as a wired backup. After finishing the game, I was curious and replace the ZAX with ASF and the sound was muffled, no treble and congested. I am using a tripowin cable, then I tried to flip the 2pin connector and it changed the sound to the one that I am accustomed to. I also tried using the silver cable that came with it and the TRN BT20S pro sounds better.


Not sure I understand......you attached the cable to the earphone backwards, and then it sounded good?
But with your prior positive reviews you didn't have the cable backwards did you?


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Not sure I understand......you attached the cable to the earphone backwards, and then it sounded good?
> But with your prior positive reviews you didn't have the cable backwards did you?


I was using BT20S pro. Yes backward so it was kind of awkward if the cable has the ear guide. Its not switching from left to right but front to back.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> I was using BT20S pro. Yes backward so it was kind of awkward if the cable has the ear guide. Its not switching from left to right but front to back.


I'm still lost...sorry.
So you plugged a Tripowin cable into the ASF and it did not sound good.
Then you unplugged the Tripowin cable and plugged the pins back in backwards.
After plugging the Tripowin cable pins in backwards the ASF then sounded good.
Is that right?

But in the past the ASF sounded good without plugging the cable in backwards, because you weren't using the Tripowin cable?


----------



## Gummybuns

you mean like this? @voicemaster


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm still lost...sorry.
> So you plugged a Tripowin cable into the ASF and it did not sound good. *Yes*
> Then you unplugged the Tripowin cable and plugged the pins back in backwards. *Yes*
> After plugging the Tripowin cable pins in backwards the ASF then sounded good.
> ...


Funny thing is when I use my ZAX, it doesn't sound bad or out of phase.


----------



## voicemaster

Gummybuns said:


> you mean like this? @voicemaster


Yes.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Funny thing is when I use my ZAX, it doesn't sound bad or out of phase.


This doesn't really make sense. What do you think is going on?
(Also what does the BT20S have to do with this story?)


----------



## Gummybuns

@MacAttack7 I think Voicemaster is establishing a point that it should be upside down.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> This doesn't really make sense. What do you think is going on?
> (Also what does the BT20S have to do with this story?)


Because when using the BT20S, I don't have to flip the 2pin connector.


----------



## voicemaster

Gummybuns said:


> @MacAttack7 I think Voicemaster is establishing a point that it should be upside down.


Lol I tried using the ASX upside down just like the picture you send and it is sounded good too, but you need to flip both otherwise the left and right will sound different.


----------



## Gummybuns

@voicemaster yeah it was less punchy and the voice is a bit clearer and forward on the upside down. You think it's a series of bad QC or a "mod" that worked unintentionally?


----------



## voicemaster

Gummybuns said:


> @voicemaster yeah it was less punchy and the voice is a bit clearer and forward on the upside down. You think it's a series of bad QC or a "mod" that worked unintentionally?


Yes the sound is wider too. I am not sure if it is intentional, but both ways do sound good and not weird. OR maybe they messed up and wired it wrong in the production line lol.


----------



## Gummybuns

Because it's upside down, the adapter kinda looks like a dangling earrings. Lol. I'm looking for a possible spot to pop the shell open. But the pin is in the aluminum plate? I'm not to sure tho.


----------



## voicemaster

Gummybuns said:


> Because it's upside down, the adapter kinda looks like a dangling earrings. Lol. I'm looking for a possible spot to pop the shell open. But the pin is in the aluminum plate? I'm not to sure tho.


If you are using bt20s pro, you can flip the connector that connect to the module instead.


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 16, 2020)

I was just reading  that the QDC connectors have a reversed polarity, so a non-QDC cable would need to be plugged in backwards. Is KZ using QDC?


----------



## Gummybuns

I ordered final type E tips and the sedna light short, should be delivered within this week. In the meantime I've been trying tip rolling. I bought a good quality but generic tips. Unfortunately I don't have a medium sized tips for the ASX, then I remembered I got an array of tips on UE900s (that was my 1st iem that I bought in 2015 I think?) I gotta say, it's way better than the stock tips.


----------



## twgtwg (Nov 16, 2020)

Gummybuns said:


> I ordered final type E tips and the sedna light short, should be delivered within this week. In the meantime I've been trying tip rolling. I bought a good quality but generic tips. Unfortunately I don't have a medium sized tips for the ASX, then I remembered I got an array of tips on UE900s (that was my 1st iem that I bought in 2015 I think?) I gotta say, it's way better than the stock tips.



Azla's Sedna black (non-light) is sounding better than Sedna Light with which I have both. Sedna Light is delivering less punchy in bass and not as extensive as Sedna black in treble.  However both are very good sounding ear-tips.


----------



## Gummybuns

@twgtwg I see. I guess my line of reasoning there was to tame the bass of ASX since the iem has a lot. Lol. 


Also based on what I've read online the non-light version is a bit stiffer on materials compared to the latter? Correct me if I'm wrong. Theoretically that would cause discomfort due to irritation?


----------



## twgtwg

Gummybuns said:


> @twgtwg I see. I guess my line of reasoning there was to tame the bass of ASX since the iem has a lot. Lol.
> 
> 
> Also based on what I've read online the non-light version is a bit stiffer on materials compared to the latter? Correct me if I'm wrong. Theoretically that would cause discomfort due to irritation?



There won't be any discomfort if the size is just fit.  We are convenience here as we can try all the sizes before buying them


----------



## Gummybuns

That's true. Sadly we do not have an option for a trial per se in the Philippines. As far as I know we do not have Azla's merch. So shotgun buying it is. Lol


----------



## twgtwg

Newest review :

https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/11/review-kz-asx/


----------



## Viber

I think the damage has been done.
KZ should discontinue the ASF and ASX and get back to the drawing board.  Maybe focus more on BT and TWS.


----------



## unifutomaki

Viber said:


> Maybe focus more on BT and TWS.


----------



## hmscott (Nov 16, 2020)

twgtwg said:


> Newest review : https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/11/review-kz-asx/


I concur with the conclusion, the AS16 really was/is enjoyable and a repeat of the KZ AS16 with newer driver components and new KZ flair would be welcome if KZ takes enough time with the tuning to get them sounding as smooth and enjoyable out of the box as the new KZ ZAX has been for me.

I wish my physical dimensions could accommodate the KZ ASX better so I could enjoy the sound without pain, and as the ASF is also in the same shell, that's out for me too.


Viber said:


> I think the damage has been done.
> KZ should discontinue the ASF and ASX and get back to the drawing board.  Maybe focus more on BT and TWS.


KZ has been trying hard for a while now to get a TWS with stable BT but none I have tried succeed well enough to rely on consistently.  They sound great, but you can't enjoy the sound if they don't stay connected.


----------



## Viber

Actually, im pretty content with my kz bt cable.  Aside from that stupid gain problem (which takes 10 seconds to fix) it's working well, very high volume,good connectivity and good SQ.

Seems completely crazy they are letting TRN dominate the tws adapter market with the bt20s/pro, which has many unsatisfied users ATM.


----------



## Viber

unifutomaki said:


>



Well, it is the future lol.
All they have to do is release the z1 with a bigger battery it seems...


----------



## unifutomaki

Viber said:


> Well, it is the future lol.
> All they have to do is release the z1 with a bigger battery it seems...



Better battery life, better connection stability,  LDAC support and a non-screwy tuning and I'd be on board.

I think it's hilarious that with the release of the ASX, the latest reviewer ends up looking fondly upon the AS16. Almost makes me want to give them a shot.


----------



## Keputs

Gummybuns said:


> That's true. Sadly we do not have an option for a trial per se in the Philippines. As far as I know we do not have Azla's merch. So shotgun buying it is. Lol


Yes we can order Azla in the Philippines Gummybuns.  Type it in the search box of Shopee.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Yes the sound is wider too. I am not sure if it is intentional, but both ways do sound good and not weird. OR maybe they messed up and wired it wrong in the production line lol.


I tested the polarity and phase of my ASF with the cable it came with and everything seems a-ok. 
There are some youtube videos with test sounds.
Now back to the music!


----------



## RCracer777

MacAttack7 said:


> I was just reading  that the QDC connectors have a reversed polarity, so a non-QDC cable would need to be plugged in backwards. Is KZ using QDC?


Yes and no, KZ uses a reversed polarity QDC as it's connection. So the cable and wiring inside the IEM have the + and - flipped compared to any other IEM using QDC. This has been measured by someone on this forum but can't find the post atm. This can in certain circumstances lead to issues, luckily not like the ESC's on my rc cars. Yes it'll do 120A continuous and 760A burst but if you flip the + and - on a 5.8A battery it will go up in smoke instantly. Had this happen multiple times when preparing a car for a race under stress


----------



## MacAttack7

RCracer777 said:


> Yes and no, KZ uses a reversed polarity QDC as it's connection. So the cable and wiring inside the IEM have the + and - flipped compared to any other IEM using QDC. This has been measured by someone on this forum but can't find the post atm. This can in certain circumstances lead to issues, luckily not like the ESC's on my rc cars. Yes it'll do 120A continuous and 760A burst but if you flip the + and - on a 5.8A battery it will go up in smoke instantly. Had this happen multiple times when preparing a car for a race under stress


So I think QDC usually has a reversed polarity compared to a non-QDC 2-pin connection, but you are saying KZ reverses the QDC polarity, so that would make it the same polarity as non-QDC. Is that correct?

So any generic 2-pin non-QDC cable should work fine?


----------



## RCracer777

MacAttack7 said:


> So I think QDC usually has a reversed polarity compared to a non-QDC 2-pin connection, but you are saying KZ reverses the QDC polarity, so that would make it the same polarity as non-QDC. Is that correct?
> 
> So any generic 2-pin non-QDC cable should work fine?


I believe so, probably has to do with backwards compatibility for the paragraph A and B connectors as they aren't QDC based.


----------



## Jonatan

RCracer777 said:


> I believe so, probably has to do with backwards compatibility for the paragraph A and B connectors as they aren't QDC based.


So if buying a new cable for example a kz asf we should get regular 2 pin instead of qdc?


----------



## unifutomaki

I have never had any issues using QDC cables with my KZs.


----------



## RCracer777

Jonatan said:


> So if buying a new cable for example a kz asf we should get regular 2 pin instead of qdc?


Not sure as I don't have a ASF or ASX yet. Whether it works better with 2 pin or QDC is dependent on the crossover pcb I think. Some don't care, some are fussy.



unifutomaki said:


> I have never had any issues using QDC cables with my KZs.


Neither have I, that said I've only got two balanced Tripowin C8 cables that terminate in 2.5mm and 4.4mm respectively. So power is going to both + and -. And I only use them with the ZSX which if fine with just about any cable it seems.


----------



## MacAttack7

Jonatan said:


> So if buying a new cable for example a kz asf we should get regular 2 pin instead of qdc?


I read something yesterday that made me think most of the QDC cables on AliExpress aren't actually the official QDC cables which have reversed polarity.
They have same shape and sleeve, but not reversed polarity.
Not sure if this is true or not, but it makes sense as it seems QDC reversed polarity IEM's are kind of rare, but QDC cables are numerous with budget cables on AliExpress.


----------



## Gummybuns

@Keputs I was referring to physical stores like egghead audiohub. Lol.


----------



## Groovistico (Nov 16, 2020)

Viber said:


> I think the damage has been done.
> KZ should discontinue the ASF and ASX and get back to the drawing board.


And what should they draw?

All this "hobbyism" and "audiophilism" may enhance the market, but it really doesn't help sound quality to develop. I know, audiophiles tend to call people, who care about technical accuracy, audiophiles. But in reality, if you apply logic, audiophiles are the people who believe audio equipment is a piece of art itself, rather than a sound reproduction instrument. Thus, people who believe that earphones make music more "fun", "groovy", "exciting" or "musical" are the veriest audiophiles. Music, as it was created,  not being alterd in some way by earphones, is "flat", "boring" and... "not musical" for such people!
Looking at reviewers and just regular users, you can see strange things. Neutrality is not considered a defining criterion of sound quality. Some people even talked themselves as far as considering it unwanted!!! Resolution is also something not absolutely necessary for high quality. Then there are people, who say some earphones have "too fast atack/decay". What? I mean, attack and decay could be slow, but can someone even explain, what are too fast attacks anyway? Like, they are faster than signal itself? And of course, short  treble extension is also "good" for bad recordings. (We are talking about times when you can store hundreds of albums even in high resolution on a card in size of a nail!)

The accuracy in all possible aspects is not demanded and is not considered the absolutely necessary criterion of sound quality by too many people. You know what, guys? With those stereotypes there is no way of telling a good earphone from a bad one. Its all down to subjective opinions that way. I can call EDX the best earphone in the world, way better than any fancy things for thousands of bucks. This opinion would be as good as any other. There are $1000+ earphones that have bloated bass and treble peaks for pseudo-detail and still getting good reviews.

So what manufacturers, like KZ and other chi-fi, should do really? What aim they should pursue?


----------



## RCracer777

MacAttack7 said:


> I read something yesterday that made me think most of the QDC cables on AliExpress aren't actually the official QDC cables which have reversed polarity.
> They have same shape and sleeve, but not reversed polarity.
> Not sure if this is true or not, but it makes sense as it seems QDC reversed polarity IEM's are kind of rare, but QDC cables are numerous with budget cables on AliExpress.


Sounds logical as KZ and CCA are probably the biggest users of the QDC style connector so it seems logical to make polarity the same as the standard KZ/CCA cable.

Talking about this QDC polarity vs 2 pin and the reversed polarities is making my head spin so quick summary (to the best of my knowledge);
True QDC = reversed 2 pin polarity
KZ/CCA QDC = 2 pin polarity


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Maybe focus more on BT and TWS.



Good lord I hope not.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Finally (!!) I got my ASX.
After first 1-2 hours in between the different things, the very least, it is far from "one star" and that "KZ should discontinue" them.
I spent some time reversing polarity (as awkward as it is with paragraph C) - very interesting: reverse connection (on my unit at least) makes it so much a honking marvel (a capable bass driver!), almost works for some organ music, but treble is virtually non-existent, not right.

Are ASX better than AS16, I am far from sure now. I will report in a day or two, also comparing with C16, ZAX and BA10.


----------



## MacAttack7

Groovistico said:


> And what should they draw?
> 
> All this "hobbyism" and "audiophilism" may enhance the market, but it really doesn't help sound quality to develop. I know, audiophiles tend to call people, who care about technical accuracy, audiophiles. But in reality, if you apply logic, audiophiles are the people who believe audio equipment is a piece of art itself, rather than a sound reproduction instrument. Thus, people who believe that earphones make music more "fun", "groovy", "exciting" or "musical" are the veriest audiophiles. Music, as it was created,  not being alterd in some way by earphones, is "flat", "boring" and... "not musical" for such people!
> Looking at reviewers and just regular users, you can see strange things. Neutrality is not considered a defining criterion of sound quality. Some people even talked themselves as far as considering it unwanted!!! Resolution is also something not absolutely necessary for high quality. Then there are people, who say some earphones have "too fast atack/decay". What? I mean, attack and decay could be slow, but can someone even explain, what are too fast attacks anyway? Like, they are faster than signal itself? And of course, short  treble extension is also "good" for bad recordings. (We are talking about times when you can store hundreds of albums even in high resolution on a card in size of a nail!)
> ...


It does seem very subjective once you get past some basic observations that just about anyone could critique: Is the sound muffled, do the highs pierce your eardrums, does it have zero bass, does it fit the human ear?
Once you get past the basics then the opinions seem to vary wildly.


----------



## nraymond

Groovistico said:


> So what manufacturers, like KZ and other chi-fi, should do really? What aim they should pursue?



While your question was likely rheotorical, I'll treat it as serious for this exercise: some customers think that each company should cater to their personal whims, because their personal whims are best/most right. (Having a protracted dialog with people with different observations/experiences/opinions is difficult, so a lot of people don't try.) I'm guessing companies just do some statistical sampling of user posts/reviews and then correlate with with their sales and to optiomize how well they're able to promote/sell their product within a given window of time. Though hopefully companies have an internal team of people in their company that have concrete ideal objective(s) they are aiming for with their products and go through evolutionary refinement of their craft, so they don't just chase the constantly in-flux chimera of an 'ideal' consumer signature.


----------



## digitalazer

nraymond said:


> While your question was likely rheotorical, I'll treat it as serious for this exercise: some customers think that each company should cater to their personal whims, because their personal whims are best/most right. (Having a protracted dialog with people with different observations/experiences/opinions is difficult, so a lot of people don't try.) I'm guessing companies just do some statistical sampling of user posts/reviews and then correlate with with their sales and to optiomize how well they're able to promote/sell their product within a given window of time. Though hopefully companies have an internal team of people in their company that have concrete ideal objective(s) they are aiming for with their products and go through evolutionary refinement of their craft, so they don't just chase the constantly in-flux chimera of an 'ideal' consumer signature.



Companies rely on a combination of their product management, research/design companies, community groups / user feedback and surveys on designing their products. Conception, design, prototyping, and refinement through the product lifecycle is affected by forecasts and sales projections, internal synergies, and previous product experience. And sometimes there are personal pet projects that don't resonate well with some of their target market. Jokingly this how I feel about my ASX experience.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> Good lord I hope not.



Ahhh... you say 'no' now, but true wireless are like a nice pair of ugly sweatpants.  They're unprofessional, but boy are they comfy!


----------



## Wgibson

Viber said:


> Ahhh... you say 'no' now, but true wireless are like a nice pair of ugly sweatpants.  They're unprofessional, but boy are they comfy!



Well, I actually have a few pairs of sweatpants that are cut like dress pants. On a related note, I was looking real close at those BGVP Q2 that also have an mmcx direct cable option. Didn't pull the trigger, but that's the way to go IMO.


----------



## seanwee

MacAttack7 said:


> It does seem very subjective once you get past some basic observations that just about anyone could critique: Is the sound muffled, do the highs pierce your eardrums, does it have zero bass, does it fit the human ear?
> Once you get past the basics then the opinions seem to vary wildly.


I've read multiple glowing reviews for high-end iems that sound muffled. Just your run of the mill "high end/expensive must sound good" BS.

On a cheaper iem they will say its muddy/muffled but suddenly on high end iems the same sound is described as "liquid" or "soothing and relaxing". Hence why i don't trust any high end iem review, regardless of reviewer as my most trusted reviewers seem to have this bias. Real shame really.


----------



## unifutomaki

seanwee said:


> I've read multiple glowing reviews for high-end iems that sound muffled. Just your run of the mill "high end/expensive must sound good" BS.



Smells like access journalism


----------



## seanwee

unifutomaki said:


> Smells like access journalism


Not really, those kinds of reviewers don't make it into my trusted list and it's usually trivial to spot one. 

It's as if they believe in what they are saying. Confirmation bias perhaps.


----------



## voicemaster

So my 2nd ASX just arrived. OOTB, the sound was exactly the same as when I received my 1st pair. The treble is pretty subdued, but everything else is the same. Pairing one side with my old pair, it is quite noticeable the treble difference. Other than that, there is no difference. I like the black one better than the silver one as the white molding near the nozzle can look pretty bad on the silver one. Also, on my silver pair, there was a sharp edge on the lip where the black one is very smooth all around.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> So my 2nd ASX just arrived. OOTB, the sound was exactly the same as when I received my 1st pair. The treble is pretty subdued, but everything else is the same. Pairing one side with my old pair, it is quite noticeable the treble difference. Other than that, there is no difference. I like the black one better than the silver one as the white molding near the nozzle can look pretty bad on the silver one. Also, on my silver pair, there was a sharp edge on the lip where the black one is very smooth all around.


So on your first pair the treble was subdued when you first listened to them, but it opened up over time?


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> So on your first pair the treble was subdued when you first listened to them, but it opened up over time?


Correct


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 17, 2020)

After a long listening, I make a verdict ASX/ASF- these are the most unsuccessful headphones from KZ.
very hazy sound, very screaming sound. 
Narrow stage and sound positioning in front of you.
I would have thrown them in the trash but I paid for them unfortunately. And this is not only my opinion.
TRN V90s so much better? better than ASX - more detailed, airier

Very interesting, but did those people who liked them listen to other headphones?


----------



## MacAttack7 (Nov 17, 2020)

Mr.HiAudio said:


> After a long listening, I make a verdict ASX/ASF- these are the most unsuccessful headphones from KZ.
> very hazy sound, very screaming sound.
> Narrow stage and sound positioning in front of you.
> I would have thrown them in the trash but I paid for them unfortunately. And this is not only my opinion.
> ...


So funny......I tested my ASF today against my TRN V90's and Jade Audio EA3's, and I thought the ASF sounded best. 

I actually like the ASF so much I have a 2nd pair on the way, and I don't think I could find an earphone I like better in this price range, below $50.


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 17, 2020)

Mr.HiAudio said:


> After a long listening, I make a verdict ASX/ASF- these are the most unsuccessful headphones from KZ.
> very hazy sound, very screaming sound.
> Narrow stage and sound positioning in front of you.
> I would have thrown them in the trash but I paid for them unfortunately. And this is not only my opinion.
> ...


Listened and bought $1400 *JH Roxanne* at one point in time, several 1964 audio *V6S, V8 and V6*, JVC HA-*FX900* + *FX1100*, KZ *ZS3, ZST, ZSR, ZSN, ZS6, ZS7, ZSN pro, ZS10pro, ZSX, ZAX*, Ibasso* It01,* CCA *C10 + C12*, Zero Audio *Carbo tenore + basso + Duoza*, Koss *KC75*, Dunu *Titan 1*, and many others. Headphones: Hifiman *HE400s + HE1000 V.1*, Oppo *PM3*, Sony *MA900 + WH-1000XM1, *Mr.Speaker* MadDog V.1* and many others.
Want to include TWS? Nuarl N6pro, Mifo 07, 1more ANC, Samsung galaxy buds + plus + live, Fiil T1X, Ofusho F16, Cleer ally, and many others.
Oh and who doesn't have Sony MDR-V6. Had a bunch for live mixing.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 17, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> So funny......I tested my ASF today against my TRN V90's and Jade Audio EA3's, and I thought the ASF sounded best.


soo? what is your sound source? 

they did not sing with electronic music - a very muddy sound.
with instrumental compositions more or less, but they still serve as bad and not natural.

I'll tell you again why they didn't like them - a narrow sound and a narrow stage.


----------



## MacAttack7

Mr.HiAudio said:


> soo? what you sound source?
> 
> they did not sing with electronic music - a very muddy sound.
> with instrumental compositions more or less, but they still serve as bad and not natural.


I was using them straight out of an iPod Touch 6th Gen.
Which song would you say sounds absolutely terrible with them?
I'll give it a try.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

MacAttack7 said:


> I was using them straight out of an iPod Touch 6th Gen.
> Which song would you say sounds absolutely terrible with them?
> I'll give it a try.



Fleetwood Mac (sounds ok, but not good)
future house music(a lot)
Rammstein(last album)
Lindsey Stirling
Hurts
and in fact all the music...
all music in HI-RES and vinyl


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

voicemaster said:


> Listened and bought $1400 *JH Roxanne* at one point in time, several 1964 audio *V6S, V8 and V6*, JVC HA-*FX900* + *FX1100*, KZ *ZS3, ZST, ZSR, ZSN, ZS6, ZS7, ZSN pro, ZS10pro, ZSX, ZAX*, Ibasso* It01,* CCA *C10 + C12*, Zero Audio *Carbo tenore + basso + Duoza*, Koss *KC75*, Dunu *Titan 1*, and many others. Headphones: Hifiman *HE400s + HE1000 V.1*, Oppo *PM3*, Sony *MA900 + WH-1000XM1, *Mr.Speaker* MadDog V.1* and many others.
> Want to include TWS? Nuarl N6pro, Mifo 07, 1more ANC, Samsung galaxy buds + plus + live, Fiil T1X, Ofusho F16, Cleer ally, and many others.
> Oh and who doesn't have Sony MDR-V6. Had a bunch for live mixing.


and you liked ASX/ASF more than this list?


----------



## voicemaster

Mr.HiAudio said:


> and you liked ASX/ASF more than this list?


Most of the iems, I still like the ZAX for its size, comfort and sound. BLON bl03 is still my favorite for easy listening single DD iem. The ASX/ASF still can't beat HE1000 in sound, but it is just a damn big heavy headphone.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

voicemaster said:


> BLON bl03 is still my favorite for easy listening single DD iem


agree with you


----------



## trumpethead

Viber said:


> What will you do if something like zsn pro will show up instead?


I haven't considered that scenario but if anything is incorrect with the order I will be filing a claim with ebay/PayPal.


----------



## MacAttack7

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Fleetwood Mac (sounds ok, but not good)
> future house music(a lot)
> Rammstein(last album)
> Lindsey Stirling
> ...


Maybe that's part of the problem. I doubt KZ makes earphones that cater to HI-RES and vinyl.
I think they are budget earphones for the mass market, probably designed to sound best with iPhones, but I'm not positive about that theory.

I tried some of the music you suggested, but I guess it's too hard to evaluate with songs I'm not familiar with, but I do know Fleetwood Mac.
Rhiannon I know because it's been stuck in my head for years for some reason.
I tried comparing with my TRN V90, but it's just too hard to evaluate. I think her voice is a little softer on the ASF.
ASF is a fuller, richer, warmer sound. V90 brighter, airier.........I think. 
On Landslide her voice seems brighter with V90, not necessarily better but there is a difference.

The ASF is just a warm, full, bass sound I guess. Maybe it's a bit unusual, so I can understand if people don't like it, but I don't really notice any flaws when I listen to it.
Although I know there are flaws since it's a $50 KZ earphone with cheap drivers.
If I keep reading reviews I'm sure I will grow to hate it!


----------



## seanwee

voicemaster said:


> Listened and bought $1400 *JH Roxanne* at one point in time, several 1964 audio *V6S, V8 and V6*, JVC HA-*FX900* + *FX1100*, KZ *ZS3, ZST, ZSR, ZSN, ZS6, ZS7, ZSN pro, ZS10pro, ZSX, ZAX*, Ibasso* It01,* CCA *C10 + C12*, Zero Audio *Carbo tenore + basso + Duoza*, Koss *KC75*, Dunu *Titan 1*, and many others. Headphones: Hifiman *HE400s + HE1000 V.1*, Oppo *PM3*, Sony *MA900 + WH-1000XM1, *Mr.Speaker* MadDog V.1* and many others.
> Want to include TWS? Nuarl N6pro, Mifo 07, 1more ANC, Samsung galaxy buds + plus + live, Fiil T1X, Ofusho F16, Cleer ally, and many others.
> Oh and who doesn't have Sony MDR-V6. Had a bunch for live mixing.


The JH Roxanne personifies what I hate in an iem. Dark, muddy, congested sound with a flagship price tag.


----------



## voicemaster

seanwee said:


> The JH Roxanne personifies what I hate in an iem. Dark, muddy, congested sound with a flagship price tag.


Yes, it was the only IEM I regretted buying. The whole bass adjusting module is good in theory, but it actually only increase mid bass and make the sound muddy AF. It is also bulky as hell. The newer version is smaller iirc, but I haven't tried it yet.


----------



## Gummybuns

It all boils down to preferences. Either you like it or you don't. It's like the pineapple pizza analogy. I understand that ASF/ASX is not for everyone. But for those people who liked it. It's on them. It's their "funeral" after all. 🤷


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

MacAttack7 said:


> V90


just V90 or V90s ?  v90s so much better than v90


----------



## MacAttack7

Mr.HiAudio said:


> just V90 or V90s ?  v90s so much better than v90


Don’t tell me that or I’ll get the urge to waste more money. I have the old V90.


----------



## alamnp

Mr.HiAudio said:


> After a long listening, I make a verdict ASX/ASF- these are the most unsuccessful headphones from KZ.
> very hazy sound, very screaming sound.
> Narrow stage and sound positioning in front of you.
> I would have thrown them in the trash but I paid for them unfortunately. And this is not only my opinion.
> ...



V90s better? OMG so ASX that bad?

I reviewed V90s, so bad, ZAX and CA16 blew past this one


----------



## Keputs

Ok. After reading through all the convoluted ways to enjoy the ASX/ASF and reviews in and outside this thread, I'm sticking with the ZAX/ZSX (which I thoroughly enjoy). Until KZ's next Frankenstein's Monster 👹 LoL


----------



## alamnp

Mr.HiAudio said:


> just V90 or V90s ?  v90s so much better than v90



No way...

Read my review here:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-v90s.24749/reviews#item-review-24671


----------



## Gummybuns

Keputs said:


> Until KZ's next Frankenstein's Monster 👹 LoL



I wonder if KZ will improve AS16? 🤔


----------



## slex

I'm glad I hold my horses. I hope the KBear Believe and Shouer Tape Pro doesn't disappoint me🤪


----------



## alamnp

MacAttack7 said:


> Don’t tell me that or I’ll get the urge to waste more money. I have the old V90.



Do not buy V90s...

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-v90s.24749/reviews#item-review-24671


----------



## alamnp

slex said:


> I'm glad I hold my horses. I hope the KBear Believe and Shouer Tape Pro doesn't disappoint me🤪



Let me know your impression of KBear Believe... wanted to buy, buy I restraint myself until there is a posted impression


----------



## slex

alamnp said:


> Let me know your impression of KBear Believe... wanted to buy, buy I restraint myself until there is a posted impression


Sure thing.


----------



## Groovistico

MacAttack7 said:


> Maybe that's part of the problem. I doubt KZ makes earphones that cater to HI-RES and vinyl.
> I think they are budget earphones for the mass market, probably designed to sound best with iPhones, but I'm not positive about that theory.


Why would earphones sound worse with better sources/recordings? I listen with ASF to all sorts of Hi-res, including vinyl-rips, it sounds good. Not great, because of too much bass, but good. Not muffled, not narrow, treble is in place, details are good.


----------



## cleg

And here is my video about KZ ASX. In short, I'd said that for me ASF makes more sense, as the price/quality ratio is better for them


----------



## unifutomaki

Keputs said:


> Ok. After reading through all the convoluted ways to enjoy the ASX/ASF and reviews in and outside this thread, I'm sticking with the ZAX/ZSX (which I thoroughly enjoy).



You and me both. The conflicting accounts of the ASX and ASF make my head hurt and I haven't even listened to them


----------



## RCracer777

Keputs said:


> Ok. After reading through all the convoluted ways to enjoy the ASX/ASF and reviews in and outside this thread, I'm sticking with the ZAX/ZSX (which I thoroughly enjoy).





unifutomaki said:


> You and me both. The conflicting accounts of the ASX and ASF make my head hurt and I haven't even listened to them


Same here, I was hoping that they had some better reviews because I was looking for a nice all BA set to try. Might still get a ASF sometime in the future as it generally gets the better reviews and isn't that expensive but I'm holding off for now. The ZAX and ZSX still do just about everything I ask from them and more so they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

That said my new KBEAR Lark's are very quickly becoming one of my favorite IEM's. And I still have the Moondrop SSP coming which I have high hopes for


----------



## baskingshark

RCracer777 said:


> Same here, I was hoping that they had some better reviews because I was looking for a nice all BA set to try. Might still get a ASF sometime in the future as it generally gets the better reviews and isn't that expensive but I'm holding off for now. The ZAX and ZSX still do just about everything I ask from them and more so they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
> 
> That said my new KBEAR Lark's are very quickly becoming one of my favorite IEM's. And I still have the Moondrop SSP coming which I have high hopes for



If u wanna go for an affordable all BA set, do read about the TRN BA5 (though maybe get it from somewhere with a good returns policy as TRN isn't the best in QC. There's early batch reports of a moisture build up in their nozzles that caused intermittent sound cut out). Or for slightly more expensive, one of the Hisenior series (they use knowles BAs). Just not the TRN BA8, that wasn't good for the price, quite off tonality in the mids due to the 15 dB difference from lower mids to upper mids.
CCA C16 also has quite good reviews for an all BA set, though I haven't tried it so u might wanna check with the rest.

These all BA types generally have fast bass and good technicalities. They also generally have good isolation as they aren't vented usually (unlike DD types seen in hybrids/single DD). Only issue for me is that the BA bass sounds a bit less natural to me than DD bass due to a lack of movement of air/decay +/- subbass extension, but different strokes for different folks, it might be good to have one multi BA in your collection.

Is your KBEAR LARK the 4 kHz old version or the retuned one?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Gummybuns said:


> I wonder if KZ will improve AS16? 🤔


What would you suggest to improve in AS16?

BA10 are a more obvious candidate to me, just the better fitting shell  I even got a new mighty name for the new generation BA10 - BAX 

Mini update on ASX: crazy source dependence (so many BAs compete for their share of power), and I can't make it to sound best KZ so far, but I will try more


----------



## unifutomaki

RCracer777 said:


> Same here, I was hoping that they had some better reviews because I was looking for a nice all BA set to try.



Consider some of the Audiosense offerings if you're interested in exploring all-BA sets. I've been looking at the T260/T300... maybe in 2021.


----------



## RCracer777 (Nov 17, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> If u wanna go for an affordable all BA set, do read about the TRN BA5 (though maybe get it from somewhere with a good returns policy as TRN isn't the best in QC. There's early batch reports of a moisture build up in their nozzles that caused intermittent sound cut out). Or for slightly more expensive, one of the Hisenior series (they use knowles BAs). Just not the TRN BA8, that wasn't good for the price, quite off tonality in the mids due to the 15 dB difference from lower mids to upper mids.
> CCA C16 also has quite good reviews for an all BA set, though I haven't tried it so u might wanna check with the rest.





unifutomaki said:


> Consider some of the Audiosense offerings if you're interested in exploring all-BA sets. I've been looking at the T260/T300... maybe in 2021.


I'll take a look into those, probably won't get any of them before 2021 as I've been buying too many IEM's as of late.



baskingshark said:


> Is your KBEAR LARK the 4 kHz old version or the retuned one?


Not sure, got it though Amazon on 11.11 so I'll have to ask the seller as I have no measuring equipment. KBEAR did ask all sellers to stop sale of the Lark 4K the day before but they did note that through Amazon you might still get the 4K as it came from the Amazon warehouse and not from the sellers own warehouse. So there was little they can do but pull to entire stock and replace it which can't be done in a single day. Either way I have no issues with the 4K, the 7.5K peak however does cause sibilance on a handful of tracks which are close to or sibilant by themselves.
Tested this with the EQ on my X7II, lowering the 4K did pretty much nothing but take away some of the impact on the drums and raising it caused it to be harsh as hell, reducing the 8K by 3~5dB did remove the sibilance. That said 95% of the time they are amazing. I even caught myself forgetting that I was using them, they don't intrude on what you're doing with their sound. Great for working and travelling. I'll probably get another pair in a few months to be sure to get the retuned one. And to have a backup


----------



## purplesun (Nov 17, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Mini update on ASX: crazy source dependence (so many BAs compete for their share of power), and I can't make it to sound best KZ so far, but I will try more


Have you tried the ASX with simpler music arrangements? Does that sound OK? I think big symphonic works tend to require good current delivery from playback systems. I find the instruments tend to lump together (lose separation & imaging) when things get energetic. For KZ AS10/AS06, I like to drive them with an old A47 amp. In fact, I just dusted off the A47 in readiness for my ASF, arriving soon. It's all hands on deck for the ASF!


----------



## Nimweth (Nov 17, 2020)

RCracer777 said:


> Same here, I was hoping that they had some better reviews because I was looking for a nice all BA set to try. Might still get a ASF sometime in the future as it generally gets the better reviews and isn't that expensive but I'm holding off for now. The ZAX and ZSX still do just about everything I ask from them and more so they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
> 
> That said my new KBEAR Lark's are very quickly becoming one of my favorite IEM's. And I still have the Moondrop SSP coming which I have high hopes for


Yes, the Lark is very good indeed and it's +1 for the ZAX as well! If you want a nice all BA set, I can recommend the KZ BA10.


----------



## MacAttack7

After a few days guess what? 
The ASF still sounds really good!

I just don't understand the negative reviews.
It is a thick, warm, rich sound with powerful bass, but the details are there, nothing is muffled.
I just don't hear any obvious flaws.

I wouldn't want this as my only IEM because I enjoy a brighter signature sometimes, but it's a good one for the collection if you want a darker sound signature.
(I do think I should have waited before buying a 2nd one, because I forgot there will probably be a CCA version, and then a KZ ASF Pro, and then a CCA Pro.)


----------



## IEMusic

MacAttack7 said:


> I do think I should have waited before buying a 2nd one, because I forgot there will probably be a CCA version, and then a KZ ASF Pro, and then a CCA Pro.


And all in the next 2 weeks probably  .  How is the isolation with the ASF?   That is one of the reasons why I ordered the ASF to try.


----------



## MacAttack7

IEMusic said:


> And all in the next 2 weeks probably  .  How is the isolation with the ASF?   That is one of the reasons why I ordered the ASF to try.


I think the isolation is excellent for an IEM, and that's with the very flimsy tips they provide.
I would prefer even more isolation, but of the IEM's I've tried (not that many) I think this is the best so far. I doubt if you can get much better without some kind of Bose-type noise cancelling technology.
I'll probably try spinfits CP100 on my next pair.


----------



## Gummybuns

PhonoPhi said:


> What would you suggest to improve in AS16?



None really lol. I mean like they upgraded zst twice. So I guess it's a trend? Lol.


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> *What would you suggest to improve in AS16?*
> 
> BA10 are a more obvious candidate to me, just the better fitting shell  I even got a new mighty name for the new generation BA10 - BAX
> 
> Mini update on ASX: crazy source dependence (so many BAs compete for their share of power), and I can't make it to sound best KZ so far, but I will try more


Kz AS~ of course!! To infinity and beyond!!


----------



## Gummybuns

MacAttack7 said:


> I'll probably try spinfits CP100 on my next pair.



I'm loving the ASX sedna short combo. Azla did tame the bass a little. By this much 👌. Lol.


----------



## Slater

Gummybuns said:


> None really lol. I mean like they upgraded zst twice. So I guess it's a trend? Lol.



The ZSTX was the only one I know of. Or do you mean the ZSN?


----------



## Gummybuns

Slater said:


> The ZSTX was the only one I know of. Or do you mean the ZSN?



Correct me if I'm wrong. But zst was first released in the black shell, right? Then they re-issue the purple one. From what I read it was modified. Then recently the released Zst X.


----------



## MacAttack7

Gummybuns said:


> I'm loving the ASX sedna short combo. Azla did tame the bass a little. By this much 👌. Lol.


These eartip companies must laugh at how much we will pay for a little piece of silicone that costs pennies to make.
I don't think I can bring myself to pay $15 for Azla, or $19 for their Xelastic version. I feel stupid enough paying $11 for the SpinFits. 
Maybe they'll go on a half-price sale someday.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 17, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Kz AS~ of course!! To infinity and beyond!!


With 4 distinct bands/BAs 2+2+4+4 are at the boundary of any common sense (and physical fit), so AS24 (if any) will be a sane limit.

KZ can further invest efforts in smarter crossovers and better drivers (as they are doing well with DDs).

My impressions of ASX in four words so far "KZ can do better".

At the same time, IEmatch made the most positive difference that I've ever seen, so I continue to explore it, and want to make sure that it is at 50+ hours to put together my comparisons.


purplesun said:


> Have you tried the ASX with simpler music arrangements? Does that sound OK? I think big symphonic works tend to require good current delivery from playback systems. I find the instruments tend to lump together (lose separation & imaging) when things get energetic. For KZ AS10/AS06, I like to drive them with an old A47 amp. In fact, I just dusted off the A47 in readiness for my ASF, arriving soon. It's all hands on deck for the ASF!



AS06 so much came to mind with ASX, with the mids at the back stage.
Definitely, the less volume and less instruments - the better ASX sound - the treble is gentle but very resolving, easily beat TWFK, but the mids are far from the legendary Knowles mid/all-range ED29689 (to my ears, with my sources).

The very least, ASX are decent (horrible are the source matches or the minds...)

P. S. Edit: ASX/ASZ


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> With 4 distinct bands/BAs 2+2+4+4 are at the boundary of any common sense (and physical fit), so AS24 (if any) will be a sane limit.
> 
> KZ can further invest efforts in smarter crossovers and better drivers (as they are doing well with DDs).
> 
> ...


ASZ?? KZ new 24 drivers BA?


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> At the same time, IEmatch made the most positive difference that I've ever seen, so I continue to explore it, and want to make sure that it is at 50+ hours to put together my comparisons.
> 
> AS06 so much came to mind with ASX, with the mids at the back stage.
> Definitely, the less volume and less instruments - the better ASX sound - the treble is gentle but very resolving, easily beat TWFK, but the mids are far from the legendary Knowles mid/all-range ED29689 (to my ears, with my sources).


Yeah, I also plan to test my ASF's low impedance source playing with an IFI dac.
I feel like Richard Dreyfuss getting all the equipment ready  to go slay a great white shark! 

AS06 is not bad for the price (must be less than $20 by now), but at $90(?) for the ASX, it's quite a gamble.


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> Yeah, I also plan to test my ASF's low impedance source playing with an IFI dac.
> I feel like Richard Dreyfuss getting all the equipment ready  to go slay a great white shark!
> 
> AS06 is not bad for the price (must be less than $20 by now), but at $90(?) for the ASX, it's quite a gamble.


Got my 2nd pair for $77 OTD.


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> Yeah, I also plan to test my ASF's low impedance source playing with an IFI dac.
> I feel like Richard Dreyfuss getting all the equipment ready  to go slay a great white shark!
> 
> AS06 is not bad for the price (must be less than $20 by now), but at $90(?) for the ASX, it's quite a gamble.


AS06 is still close to $30,  I believe. AS10 and AS06 hold their values the best - a testament to their value and being appreciated.
(To me AS06 are beautifully austere IEM, Bach solo cello (!!))

ASX are really at $72-80, coupons are out there, and that reflects reasonably their value, IMHO; as well as ASF at ~$45.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> AS06 is still close to $30,  I believe. AS10 and AS06 hold their values the best - a testament to their value and being appreciated.
> (To me AS06 are beautifully austere IEM, Bach solo cello (!!))
> ASX are really at $72-80, coupons are out there, and that reflects reasonably their value, IMHO; as well as ASF at ~$45.


Not for trebleheads though, AS10 and AS06. But I know what you mean by "beautiful" with this pair. I still get pleasantly surprised by the way AS10 presents intimate vocals. And, of course, their amazingly speedy bass really gets the party going when I am listening to electropop or rock songs. Hoping that my ASF will have some (or more) of these qualities.


----------



## Gummybuns

purplesun said:


> Hoping that my ASF will have some (or more) of these qualities.



ASF/ASX sounds alike with AS10 minus some details. I think the ASF/ASX is like AS10 on roids. Lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

purplesun said:


> AS06 is not bad for the price (must be less than $20 by now), but at $90(?) for the ASX, it's quite a gamble.



AS06 is a heck of a bargain!  The ASX will also be cheap as chips....when it is not "current".   I personally love the AS06 (with an upgraded cord).


----------



## Slater

Gummybuns said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong. But zst was first released in the black shell, right? Then they re-issue the purple one. From what I read it was modified. Then recently the released Zst X.



That whole ZST “Pro” thing is an urban myth. Sure, they the purple and blue shell, but the tuning is 100% identical to the black and carbon one. No difference whatsoever.


----------



## Gummybuns

Slater said:


> That whole ZST “Pro” thing is an urban myth. Sure, they the purple and blue shell, but the tuning is 100% identical to the black and carbon one. No difference whatsoever.



That makes sense. So it was just a variant.


----------



## voicemaster

Sounds good with the ASX. The bass in this song will clean up your ears real good lol.


----------



## Slater

Gummybuns said:


> That makes sense. So it was just a variant.



Yeah, just it at a different color shell. Some sellers advertised the purple/blue one as the “ZST Pro”, which is what started the untrue rumor that it was tuned differently (which it is not). KZ officially calls it the “ZST Colorful”.

This was years before KZ ever used the word “Pro” in an *official* model name (starting with the ZSN Pro as the first model that I’m aware of).


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 17, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Mini update on ASX: crazy source dependence (so many BAs compete for their share of power), and I can't make it to sound best KZ so far, but I will try more



Agreed, ASF is not the best sounding KZ. 

AS12 is, in my opinion, but I do like the ASF.




PhonoPhi said:


> My impressions of ASX in four words so far "KZ can do better".
> 
> At the same time, IEmatch made the most positive difference that I've ever seen, so I continue to explore it, and want to make sure that it is at 50+ hours to put together my comparisons.
> 
> The very least, ASX are decent (horrible are the source matches or the minds...)



I settled the "source" issue a while ago by going with Cowon. That is to say output impedance issues. The Cowon Plenue offerings are designed well when it comes to low output impedance specifications.

The UI takes some getting used to but if it's fantastic sound you're after I highly recommend a Cowon. I should mention that I typically go single-ended (3.5mm).

*Usually, Cowon output impedance is well under 1Ω and in my opinion they rival most of the trendy spendy DAPs when it comes to great sound delivery. *







DXD : Up to 352.8/384kHz (1/2 Sampling)
DSD Native : Up to DSD128
SNR : 123dB Unbalance / 123dB Balance
*THD+N : 0.0005% Unbalance / 0.0005% Balance* (24bit, 48kHz)
Stereo Crosstalk : -139dB Unbalance / -143dB Balance
Output : 2.0Vrms Unbalance / 3.24Vrms Balance
*Output Impedance : 1.3Ω Unbalance / 2.6Ω Balance*
Playback Time : Approximately 10.5 hours (MP3, 128kbps)


In other news, I'll be ordering the new CCA CST but I'm also looking forward to see what sister offering KZ may have on the drawing board.






In the meantime I figure I'll finally start on the project that I've been meaning to get to for a while which is to rewire another earphone that slipped under the radar. It didn't get much fanfare but it was quite good with its 12.5mm single dynamic driver. Well worth the $37 I paid for the Tin Audio T1.









You can tell that the $37 Tin Audio T1 was "inspired" by the $649 "Dita: The Answer"




I'll be repurposing either one of these cables.  Haven't decided yet.


----------



## baskingshark

Alpha Whale said:


> Agreed, ASF is not the best sounding KZ.
> 
> AS12 is, in my opinion, but I do like the ASF.
> 
> ...



Which COWON DAP would u recommend? I almost snagged a COWON Plenue V on 11/11, but it had no BT or streaming/WIFI, but had a purported 40+ hour battery life. But decided to give it a miss in the end.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

alamnp said:


> V90s better? OMG so ASX that bad?
> 
> I reviewed V90s, so bad, ZAX and CA16 blew past this one


but ASX/ASF is even worse, even other reviews on the network began to appear, which confirm that ASX/ASF are bad in sound, and this is damn it not because of their presentation, but because of the tuning curve. The sound is the same as if you took a file and turned it on on YouTube with a resolution of 144p lol


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

alamnp said:


> Do not buy V90s...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-v90s.24749/reviews#item-review-24671


" poor fitting"
perhaps because of this you did not like the sound


----------



## BubisUK

Mr.HiAudio said:


> but ASX/ASF is even worse, even other reviews on the network began to appear, which confirm that ASX/ASF are bad in sound, and this is damn it not because of their presentation, but because of the tuning curve. The sound is the same as if you took a file and turned it on on YouTube with a resolution of 144p lol


Maybe some reviewers needs to clean their ears properly by doctors or get them checked 😃 Honestly, I love my trebble, but ASX is amazing to my liking as well, not everyone suppose to like the same things universally. The way I see it if they flop, I will be able to get a set of ASX/ASF in silver for cheap 😃


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 18, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Which COWON DAP would u recommend? I almost snagged a COWON Plenue V on 11/11, but it had no BT or streaming/WIFI, but had a purported 40+ hour battery life. But decided to give it a miss in the end.



Glad to be of assistance. Before pulling the trigger I would read through the Twister6 Cowon reviews here on Head-Fi or at Twister6.com. Twister6's was the first KZ review (ATE, HDS1 and ED9) I ever read. That is where my KZ journey began.  Twister6 reviews the pros and cons of several Cowon models but not all models. He also compares said models with some of the more popular and well regarded DAPs (iBasso, Opus, L&P, etc.). It's definitely worth taking the time to go through the reviews to get your bearings on which models fit your needs.

For example:

I use in-ears more often than not so I needn't focus on the most powerful models.

I don't do Bluetooth, mainly due to research regarding proximity to the brain, so Bluetooth capability is unimportant to me. Cowon is known mostly for focusing on standalone/offline DAPs but they do offer Bluetooth models that have phone call notification so consider your Bluetooth needs when narrowing down an appropriate model.

My unit is loaded with M4A and MP3-320kbps files. I do have some FLAC and WAV files loaded but 95% of the files loaded are M4A and 320kbps. 128gb of internal storage and 256gb of microSD storage means that my entire music collection is at my fingertips. I have a ridiculously large music collection (1930s to present ripped directly from CD to wav format then ripped to M4A and MP3-320kbps for portable use). Consider your storage needs.

Consider your preferences regarding USB-C vs micro-USB charging connectors.

Consider your preferences regarding single-ended (3.5mm) vs balanced (2.5mm) output.

Plenue models are equipped with Sabre, AKM or Cirrus Logic DACs in case you have a preference. IIRC, one of the early Plenue models has a Burr Brown DAC while a mid-level model carries another T.I. DAC.













I do think it's a good idea to pick up a Cowon Plenue V, which is $135 ($150 - $15 coupon) on Amazon right now, to familiarize yourself with the UI and DSP. After doing so you will likely decide that you simply must have one of the higher end models. You can put your 64gb "V" up for sale here on Head-Fi and then pick up the model that suits your needs best.

Cowons played straight sound amazing but their DSP is probably the most natural tweaking I've heard. I don't know enough about the science behind their DSP but I'm speechless regarding how _close to natural_ vocal and instrument tones remain when fiddling with the EQ.

It would be great to hear about your experience even if you pick up an entry level Plenue (V, J or D2). Also, I wouldn't skimp on the case with the V, J or D2. Get the case.
The P2, P2 mkii and PL come with the case.


----------



## Turbulance

Well I wonder if I’m going a bit crazy with all these radically different opinions relating to the ASXs.

I really enjoy my ASXs. But I found that when using non-KZ tips, foams, SpinFits, and some other generic tips, I felt the tuning had gone south and had become less enjoyable and more intolerable.

Returning to the supplied KZ tips, which have no extension to the nozzles at all, with the nozzles’ grills being almost flush with these tips when fitted. I found the sound improved again.

So I’m wondering what tips the current set of reviewers where using?

I know I enjoy bass, in the old times I always turned up the bass and switched on loudness setting. That being said I find I’m mostly agnostic to the various tuning of my IEMs so maybe I’m more tolerant and forgiving of these KZs because of that.

I have been listening to a few Master playlists on Tidal, using my iPhone and my Dragonfly Black and each track I’ve played sounds great to my ears.

If anything I think these reviews mostly prove that human ears and our perception of what we hear can be quite varied. Therefore ‘safely’ tuned IEMs get wide agreement from owners and reviewers but ‘non-standard’ tuning creates polarisation.

In the end, for me, I am happy to have these in my collection, and for me that’s all that really matters.

That being said, if your not happy to experiment with tuning avoid these. Plus their fit can cause discomfort.


----------



## BubisUK

I personaly use spinfit cp100 with my ASX. I did not even try any of the tips included at hey never fit me properly.


----------



## Turbulance

BubisUK said:


> I personaly use spinfit cp100 with my ASX. I did not even try any of the tips included at hey never fit me properly.



Are you happy with the sound?


----------



## Pelicampe

Alpha Whale said:


> Agreed, ASF is not the best sounding KZ.
> 
> AS12 is, in my opinion, but I do like the ASF.
> 
> ...



Avoid the black TRN câble...
The Jack is scratchy noisy on mine, the slider don't retain anything and the curved part keeps popping out of my ears...


----------



## Gummybuns

Turbulance said:


> So I’m wondering what tips the current set of reviewers where using?




As far as I know they use the stock tips. Any modifications or changes would tamper the review per se and should've been disclosed in the review.




BubisUK said:


> I personaly use spinfit cp100 with my ASX. I did not even try any of the tips included at hey never fit me properly.



The stock tips were kinda flimsy.

That being said, I bought the Final type E and the Azla sedna shorts. So far I never had gotten the chance to use the Type E because the Sedna Short is so damn good at ASX. Lol. Maybe this weekend I'll give it a go. 😅


----------



## voicemaster

For me the stock tips don't seal well when inserted into my ear. Then I tried a foam tips that originally for TWS which most of them have smaller nozzle like the ASX/ASF and they fit perfectly and can be inserted just like the stock tips but way better seal.


----------



## MacAttack7

Gummybuns said:


> The stock tips were kinda flimsy.
> 
> That being said, I bought the Final type E and the Azla sedna shorts. So far I never had gotten the chance to use the Type E because the Sedna Short is so damn good at ASX. Lol. Maybe this weekend I'll give it a go. 😅


Do the Azla Sedna Shorts stay on the nozzle? I thought they would be a little too wide for the ASF/ASX nozzle.
You use Earfit or Earfitlight?


----------



## sapphiro

It looks like there are many negative reviews of ASF and ASX. Too bad, I was looking forward to new releases to possibly replace my old Terminators but it seams even ZAX are not that much better. Porta.fi even likes ZSX better than ZAX. 
I Like KZ started including better cable but in $100 range the earphone case is a must imo.


----------



## twgtwg

MacAttack7 said:


> Do the Azla Sedna Shorts stay on the nozzle? I thought they would be a little too wide for the ASF/ASX nozzle.
> You use Earfit or Earfitlight?



Azla Sedna shorts fits perfectly well on the nozzles. Don'T worry abt it !  They even make ASX sounded better and musical.


----------



## kmmbd

Alpha Whale said:


> It would be great to hear about your experience even if you pick up an entry level Plenue (V, J or D2). Also, I wouldn't skimp on the case with the V, J or D2. Get the case.
> The P2, P2 mkii and PL come with the case.


I have owned 4 Cowon DAPs over the years and currently got both the Plenue V and Plenue R2 in possession. Plenue R2 is basically one of the most versatile DAPs I have. Good amount of reconstruction filter options that can alter the signature slightly but noticeably, the display is gorgeous AMOLED, the handling is great (with case) and battery life is awesome for a device of its class. More importantly: the balanced output is true balanced and it is one of the very few DAPs under $1000 that did proper justice to the highly inefficient Final E5000 (93dB/mW).
Among the other Cowon devices I've tried, the Plenue L stands on its own. It's prohibitively expensive but the sound quality is definitely TOTL level. Dynamics on them are some of the best I've heard from a portable player. They're quite a bit bulky and heavy though and lacks the battery life which is a standout on most Cowon models.


Turbulance said:


> So I’m wondering what tips the current set of reviewers where using?


I used the stock tips as they fit me well. I did try with a range of tips though: Spinfit CP-100/145/500, Azla Xelastec, Spiral Dot... nothing could improve what's already broken I guess.


----------



## unifutomaki

kmmbd said:


> the Plenue V



Now that is an interesting shape for a piece of consumer electronics...


----------



## kmmbd

unifutomaki said:


> Now that is an interesting shape for a piece of consumer electronics...


Well can also substitute for an electric shaver when in a pinch.


----------



## voicemaster

Wow, last time I bought a dedicated media player was the Ibasso DX80. I used to have Cowon player and love it. With smartphone and bluetooth technology getting more advanced, I rarely consider buying dedicated media player as my S20 plus + Samsung GBeans provide enough for my 30 minutes lunch break listening session.


----------



## BubisUK

Turbulance said:


> Are you happy with the sound?


Yes I am, as I praise the ASX here on daily basis 😃. I have baby sized ear canals and any tips wider than 10mm are uncomfortable for me, and now after finding spinfit's I use them in ss size with all IEM's. If you have normal ears, you have more otions of course


----------



## Mouseman

kmmbd said:


> Well can also substitute for an electric shaver when in a pinch.


Flip it over - it's an expensive Bluetooth doorstop!


----------



## KipNix

JazzVinyl said:


> AS06 is a heck of a bargain!  The ASX will also be cheap as chips....when it is not "current".   I personally love the AS06 (with an upgraded cord).


KZ really hit the target with the AS06. I keep hearing about "recessed mids" but I'm not getting that; I have no problems with mine. 

Now I await the experts to tell me the difference between it and ASF.


----------



## voicemaster

KipNix said:


> KZ really hit the target with the AS06. I keep hearing about "recessed mids" but I'm not getting that; I have no problems with mine.
> 
> Now I await the experts to tell me the difference between it and ASF.


People say all KZ has recessed mid, but again how much forward you want it to be really lol. Might as well EQ it like a ^ to get all them mids forward.


----------



## PhonoPhi

voicemaster said:


> People say all KZ has recessed mid, but again how much forward you want it to be really lol. Might as well EQ it like a ^ to get all them mids forward.


With these arguments, ASX with its 10 drivers will be the best candidate to equalize into TOTL/flagship/dream 
(It may be true)

My limited experience with equalizers is that you can trim a bit something excessive, especially in the treble, but you can hardly add what is not there, or if you have an underperforming driver, equalizing it will just make it a shouty underperforming driver.

IMHO, KZ needs to learn how to do the mids, and they can become a king of ChiFI and beyond


----------



## JazzVinyl

KipNix said:


> KZ really hit the target with the AS06. I keep hearing about "recessed mids" but I'm not getting that; I have no problems with mine.
> 
> Now I await the experts to tell me the difference between it and ASF.



Oh Good!   My AS06 do not sound "recessed in the mids" either..


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 18, 2020)

JazzVinyl said:


> Oh Good!   My AS06 do not sound "recessed in the mids" either..


What do you compare AS06 with?

I now compared AS06 to AS10, BA10, AS12, AS16, C16, ZAX, and ASX - AS06 are the most "V".

ASX are actually quite close to AS06, OK in "less emphasis of the mids", and closer to AS10 and BA10 than to AS16 and ZAX.

I have two all-BAs with ED29689 Knowles, they are a good reference for the mids.

AS06 are beautiful for solo cello to my ears


----------



## Asound

My ASX have arrived this monday. This will be only a sort of short impression post, but I hope I can follow up with a more thorough one.

Before I go into details. My main reason for "upgrading" was to get an in-ear with a more fitting sound signature. I have the AS10 and they are bit to much on the darker/bassy side for my taste. After more than a year of usage I figured it was time to upgrade.
Seeing the ASX with the ridiculous amount of drivers, they certainly peaked my interest.
The first measurements showed that they are on the bassy/darker side. Most "reviewers" gave them an atrocious rating. While some users here are almost astonishingly happy with how they sound. Is there a problem with quality control? What is going on? I needed to hear them for myself.

Keep in mind that I can only compare them to the AS10. At least regarding in ears, these are the only other iems I have at hand.

When I got them, I started slowly. I preferably picked songs which are either quiet or where not a lot is going on. I didn't want to ruin my initial impression by playing some technical death metal or other "complex" music. So I begin listening and right of the bat these are not horrible.
The more I listened and the more songs I picked I noticed the amount of bass. It is a lot.
Yes, they are pretty dark. But they also have a rich and full sound. My AS10 sound quite thin in direct comparison. I remember when I read some posts here. Where users where saying that the AS10 are rather bright. Back then I could not understand those posts. Now they start make sense to me.
The ASX are very detailed, they kind of tell you everything. Although I think that the details could be a bit finer to be really perfect.
The imaging is on another level. The space between left and right is quite huge. The placements of the various elements works very well. Everything has so much space available. At least for me in an in ear, I have not had this level of positioning before.

I will try to follow up with a more thorough post. Which will also include some sample songs. For now I am surprised by their performance. They maybe not work for every genre. But so far I am pretty happy.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> AS06 are beautiful for solo cello to my ears


Throw me some names. Any song/artist recommendation?


----------



## purplesun

Bummer!
My newly arrived OOTB ASF sounds like the reviewers' descriptions.
I will put them into the fire pits of Mordor, and burn them for a few days, and try again!


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> Throw me some names. Any song/artist recommendation?


Bach solo cellos, I have a second (out of three) recording of Yo-Yo Ma, very decent.
Maisky for expression, Rostropovich for one of the best cello sound (less for the style, arguably); many other recordings to suite any style and preference.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> Bach solo cellos, I have a second (out of three) recording of Yo-Yo Ma, very decent.
> Maisky for expression, Rostropovich for one of the best cello sound (less for the style, arguably); many other recordings to suite any style and preference.


Thanks! Firing up Tidal now


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 18, 2020)

I thought to make it longer, I can't.

ASX are a *decent effort* but *KZ can do better, *I hope.
There is something deficient in ASX mids for me, some hollow/nasal quality, not that much, but apparent.

I do prefer AS16, C16, and ZAX to ASX.
At the same time, BA10, AS10, and especially AS06 are closer.

IEMatch really helps (ultra setting, especially) quite a bit: bass is a bit subsided, mids are more there, treble is shinier, so the impedance match is definitely an issue that may account for some difference in opinions.

I did spend quite a bit of time with the tips. Narrow bores (spinfit CP100 and my sets of hearing amplifier tips) did not work for me; to my ears shallow wide bores, such as spiral dots, still work best. Narrow bores emphasize midbass and cut treble for me.

Then on the perceived quality and internals, ASX somewhat feel scarcely TRN-ish, see the position of the crossover circuit board on my pair below:




I will still get C20 and BAX - two more tries, KZ


----------



## twgtwg

PhonoPhi said:


> I thought to make it longer, I can't.
> 
> ASX are a *decent effort* but *KZ can do better, *I hope.
> There is something deficient in ASX mids for me, some hollow/nasal quality, not that much, but apparent.
> ...



It seems my ASX's crossover boards are bit more neat and well in place except the internal cords are still messy.   Why are the *"20 BA Work Together*" marks being missed in your pair?


----------



## voicemaster

twgtwg said:


> It seems my ASX's crossover boards are bit more neat and well in place except the internal cords are still messy.   Why are the *"20 BA Work Together*" marks being missed in your pair?


The silver/white ASX has white text instead of gold thus making it harder to see.


----------



## twgtwg

voicemaster said:


> The silver/white ASX has white text instead of gold thus making it harder to see.



Oic! It's really hard to see then.  Thanks.


----------



## Groovistico

purplesun said:


> Bummer!
> My newly arrived OOTB ASF sounds like the reviewers' descriptions.
> I will put them into the fire pits of Mordor, and burn them for a few days, and try again!


Burning in hardly works. Try to experiment with tips, if you have some.


----------



## Gummybuns (Nov 19, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> Do the Azla Sedna Shorts stay on the nozzle? I thought they would be a little too wide for the ASF/ASX nozzle.
> You use Earfit or Earfitlight?




I bought the short light. Since it's my first time buying quality eartips. Back then I didn't care, as long as it stays and sounds good. Then this became a problem when the tips on AS10 falls off because there's no lip. Then I bought generic tips (like 5 sets of S,M,L for like $2-3?) Fast forward now, I jumped the bandwagon for tip rolling. Lol. I didn't know this would make a difference especially on the seal. Azla's diameter is like a plus size for the tips. Their M size could be an L for some brands. But it's grippy and overall performance, this makes ASX more enjoyable to listen to. 😄


----------



## JazzVinyl

PhonoPhi said:


> What do you compare AS06 with?
> 
> I now compared AS06 to AS10, BA10, AS12, AS16, C16, ZAX, and ASX - AS06 are the most "V".
> 
> ...



I do have the ZAX as well and think they are a fine set of IEM's, too.  Your right, the ZAX are "thicker" in the mids.  

Funny, I prefer the ZAX when I am doing other things and listening, and the AS06 when I have my eyes closed and am completely free of all distractions.


----------



## JazzVinyl

twgtwg said:


>



That is a lovely photo, you made there!


----------



## twgtwg

JazzVinyl said:


> That is a lovely photo, you made there!


Thanks. I just wanted to display the interior of the iem as much as possible🤗


----------



## voicemaster

Listening with ZS7 just for nostalgia and this is such a good sounding IEM.


----------



## Viber

So i got the "Alien Predator" TWS a few weeks ago. 

They are OK sounding after EQ, not much to write home about, but i noticed it's shallow tips give me the best fit i ever got with the ZS6!  until now i kept the ZS6 for home use\sitting only as it's shallow nozzles made them fall out of my ears during movement.

I always thought i need big\long tips to compensate for shallow nozzles on the ZS5\ZS6, turns out it's the other way around!   might need to buy more shallow TWS ear tips.

I usally use foams, but these are better.

Here's a pic of the TWS tips compared with "regular" tips:


----------



## BubisUK

More about ASX, it is really source dependable. Recieved my Btr3k today and in comparison to BTR5 ASX sounds much more brighter and detailed on 3k. Basically ASX is the first IEM I did not like to listen to on Btr5.


----------



## voicemaster

BubisUK said:


> More about ASX, it is really source dependable. Recieved my Btr3k today and in comparison to BTR5 ASX sounds much more brighter and detailed on 3k. Basically ASX is the first IEM I did not like to listen to on Btr5.


You should try the TRN bt20s pro.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> You should try the TRN bt20s pro.



lol those trn adapters are almost as controversial as the Asx.  If one of them is a bet, two of them combined are a parlay bet.


----------



## BubisUK

Most of the stuff is controversial in this hobby  Shuoer Tape Pro frequency graph looks even more rolled off on highs compared to ASX, but I bet most of reviews will rave how resolving and detailed and wonderfull it is. That is the thing I have learned in this hobby - only trust my own ears😃


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> lol those trn adapters are almost as controversial as the Asx.  If one of them is a bet, two of them combined are a parlay bet.


What is so controversial about BT20S pro? Rarely hear anything negative about them and a defect in mass product line is a given no matter how good the QC is.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> What is so controversial about BT20S pro? Rarely hear anything negative about them and a defect in mass product line is a given no matter how good the QC is.



That entire line...some people are complaining about about connection issues or other malfunctions.  The pros seem to get less complaints tho.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> That entire line...some people are complaining about about connection issues or other malfunctions.  The pros seem to get less complaints tho.


True, I have all of the them 1x bt20, 2x bt20s and 2 bt20s pro. None of them have any connection issue meaning it will randomly off or shorted when playing, but the only time the connection might be an issue is it sometimes doesn't want to pair up with each other on bt20 and bt20s because they were using older bluetooth chipset and also you need to turn them on/off individually. The bt20 also has build quality issue such as jammed up USB port, the bt20s addressed this issue by making a stronger brace to hold the USB port. The bt20s pro addressed all of the these issues from the first two models. Solid connection, instant on/off when putting/taking into and from the case, awesome battery life (8 hours), no pairing up issue, it register under one name instead of both side having individually registered, the case is pretty nice but quite big.


----------



## chinmie

Viber said:


> That entire line...some people are complaining about about connection issues or other malfunctions.  The pros seem to get less complaints tho.



i have 1 BT20, 2 BT20S, and 1 BT20S Pro, fortunately never have any trouble with any of them


----------



## richario

voicemaster said:


> True, I have all of the them 1x bt20, 2x bt20s and 2 bt20s pro. None of them have any connection issue meaning it will randomly off or shorted when playing, but the only time the connection might be an issue is it sometimes doesn't want to pair up with each other on bt20 and bt20s because they were using older bluetooth chipset and also you need to turn them on/off individually. The bt20 also has build quality issue such as jammed up USB port, the bt20s addressed this issue by making a stronger brace to hold the USB port. The bt20s pro addressed all of the these issues from the first two models. Solid connection, instant on/off when putting/taking into and from the case, awesome battery life (8 hours), no pairing up issue, it register under one name instead of both side having individually registered, the case is pretty nice but quite big.


I have BT20, 2x BT20S, and BT20S pro - no issues with any of them. 2nd version saw improved connectivity, they also seem to have lowered the gain in later versions of the BT20S (my first set drive much louder than my second.) My only gripe with the first 2 is that initial pairing could be difficult,  although they connected easily after this. The new pros are great, swappable ear stems are more comfortable, and they pair super easily under a single device name. 8 hours plus battery plus charging case. Best thing TRN ever did by a wide margin!


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 20, 2020)

kmmbd said:


> I have owned 4 Cowon DAPs over the years and currently got both the Plenue V and Plenue R2 in possession. Plenue R2 is basically one of the most versatile DAPs I have.
> 
> More importantly: the balanced output is true balanced and it is one of the very few DAPs under $1000 that did proper justice to the highly inefficient Final E5000 (93dB/mW).



Actually, your post made my day and here is why. The Plenue V and the Plenue R2 both have the Cirrus Logic CS43131 *but the R2 has the dual-DAC design*. The V has Jet Effects 5 and the R2 has Jet Effects 7. My question to you is that when you volume match the two DAPs and use the single-ended output on the R2 do the two DAPs sound extremely similar or do they sound different.

I'd also like to hear your feedback on Jet Effects 5 vs Jet Effects 7.

Looking forward to your thoughts.




Viber said:


> .... but i noticed it's shallow tips give me the best fit i ever got with the ZS6!  until now i kept the ZS6 for home use\sitting only as it's shallow nozzles made them fall out of my ears during movement.
> 
> I always thought i need big\long tips to compensate for shallow nozzles on the ZS5\ZS6, turns out it's the other way around!   might need to buy more shallow TWS ear tips.
> 
> ...



I usually go for the shallow eartips with a wide bore for two reasons.
1) they fit me well and are usually very comfortable.
2) tuning an earphone requires the tuner to factor in both the length and diameter of the nozzle. Using eartips that elongate the sound tube (nozzle + eartip) or eartips that narrow the aperture of the sound tube (nozzle + eartip) further can definitely alter the sound and sometimes to the earphone's detriment.

Pick your brightest sounding in-ears and place a set of shallow eartips with a wide bore on them and listen to just one song that you are very familiar with for about twenty minutes. Review the most notable sections of the song over and over again. I say twenty minutes so that *you will become intimately acquainted with the sound. Upon swapping *you will undoubtedly hear the difference when you slip on an eartip that was designed with a more elongated collar/shaft and maybe even a more narrow aperture.

For me, everything gets brighter from the upper midrange to the upper treble. That may be suitable for a warmer in-ear (BQ3, C10, CA16, BA10) but an unwelcome alteration to a brighter earphone (ZS6, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, A10), depending on the earphone .

I don't know which manufacturers tune their earphones with the included eartips or which manufacturers just throw in their standard eartips but it's worth noting that *the eartip plays a definite part in how the listener perceives the tuning*.

It will be interesting to hear your feedback on the difference  in the ZS6's presentation given the two eartips in your photo.



BubisUK said:


> *That is the thing I have learned in this hobby - only trust my own ears*😃



I've enjoyed many an entertaining in-ear that I would have absolutely missed out on due to someone else's opinion. The AS12 is my most recent example. A single YouTube video nearly put me on the fence. I did some research and ordered the first of what would quickly become three sets. Without reservation it is hands down my favorite sub-$100 all-BA in-ear.

And yes, I will order a fourth AS12 so I can remove the filters on the 30012 treble BAs and experiment with a full set of filters to modify treble response. The 30012 has more treble extension than the ubiquitous 30095.

I'm expecting $3 worth of filters/dampers to transform the AS12 from a very, very good set of in-ears to an almost perfect set of in-ears. Great expectations I know but hey, I'm a hobbyist.









LOL, I hope they fit.


----------



## genck

twgtwg said:


> It seems my ASX's crossover boards are bit more neat and well in place except the internal cords are still messy.   Why are the *"20 BA Work Together*" marks being missed in your pair?


Maybe they aren't working together


----------



## seanwee

Alpha Whale said:


> I usually go for the shallow eartips with a wide bore for two reasons.
> 1) they fit me well and are usually very comfortable.
> 2) tuning an earphone requires the tuner to factor in both the length and diameter of the nozzle. Using eartips that elongate the sound tube (nozzle + eartip) or eartips that narrow the aperture of the sound tube (nozzle + eartip) further can definitely alter the sound and sometimes to the earphone's detriment.
> 
> ...


And here I was just picking eartips based on comfort.


Except for complys tho. Those sound terrible.


----------



## kmmbd

Alpha Whale said:


> Actually, your post made my day and here is why. The Plenue V and the Plenue R2 both have the Cirrus Logic CS43131 *but the R2 has the dual-DAC design*. The V has Jet Effects 5 and the R2 has Jet Effects 7. My question to you is that when you volume match the two DAPs and use the single-ended output on the R2 do the two DAPs sound extremely similar or do they sound different.
> 
> I'd also like to hear your feedback on Jet Effects 5 vs Jet Effects 7.



In terms of single-ended out, the Plenue R2 isn't really too impressive. The balanced out is ace, but single-ended isn't really much of an upgrade over the Plenue V. The signature is different though (both compared with Fast filter). The Plenue V has a more bass focus and is warmer than the R2 which is mostly neutral in tone. Overall detail retrieval is also slightly better on the R2 from single ended (balanced out is on another plane entirely). However, the difference isn't worth nearly 3x the price-hike (from single-ended only), so Plenue V's single-ended out is plenty capable I'd say. 

In terms of JetEffects, the PEQ on the Plenue R2 has more bands and can also save more presets. The JetEffect controls are also more fine-grained on the JetEffects 7 vs JetEffects 5. The DSP effects themselves are mostly similar sounding. So I won't say that you miss much of the _DSP Magic _on the Plenue V vs the R2. 

I recently reviewed the Plenue V, so you can check that out as well: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cowon-plenue-v.23203/review/24767/


----------



## twgtwg

genck said:


> Maybe they aren't working together


Who would really know whether the 20 units are all actually 'sounding'...?😏😏


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 21, 2020)

genck said:


> Maybe they aren't working together


The last time I checked - the drivers were firmly glued together, so the arrangement is kind of working 

I was happy to see/know that the angular placement of the boards is a feature rather than the bug 

ASX grew on me a bit more, ASX seem to be more of AS10/BA10/AS06 line of heritage/tuning than C16/AS16/AS12.

Given the crazy source-dependence, I was thinking of getting Tempotec V1A (two cards, Hiby OS) as a source/transport.
Hence my question to all of you (especially given the recent DAP discussion here): what would be better, in your opinion - Sonata iDSD plus or new Sonata BHD to go together with V1A? (I thought to add "to drive my KZ", but I kind of resisted )


----------



## hocus sonus

Hi, 

I received ASX recently.
My first impressions is that they're high resolution indeed. 
I can hear details in the highs very clearly, whereas on others basic sets I own they don't reveal at all or are mushy.

...but I face a big issue: I can also hear when the player activates the ASX : there's a very faint 'shhh' noise, independently of the music level -I can hear it before strting to play a tune or when on pause, which adds a kind of misty veil at very low listening volume.

I used various sources : Huawei H20 phone, SMSL AD18 FDA amp, laptop PC (no bass !) : same shhh noise with each.
I also compared with other intras / earphones : KZ EDX : same noise but quieter. Philips basic intras : no noise. Focal Spirit Classic earphone (32 ohm) : no noise.

So...   do you experience this too ?  did you manage to solve it ?


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 21, 2020)

hocus sonus said:


> Hi,
> 
> I received ASX recently.
> My first impressions is that they're high resolution indeed.
> ...



I don't have the ASX, but that is a common issue in highly sensitive multi driver IEMs, they do pick up hiss. The ASX has a reported sensitivity of 106 dB/mW, that would be considered quite high sensitivity and I wouldn't be surprised that hiss occurs. It is not the impedance value but the high sensitivity that may cause hiss.

There's a few ways to remove the hiss:
1) use an in line volume controller
2) use an impedance adapter
3) use a high quality DAC/AMP as a source. I'm haven't used the SMSL AD18 FDA amp but it seems to be quite a basic amp and doesn't have the best reviews for sound quality and background noise on ASMR: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-and-measurements-of-smsl-ad18-dac-amp.7325/

There's some cheap and good DAC/AMP dongles u can try, that ain't expensive, like the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro, about $30 USD, very clean and neutralish sound, very transparent with no hiss even on very high sensitivity IEMs. It doesn't get warm too and has volume controller on it. Very good measurements and low output impedance. That's my go to when I go out, I just plug it into my smartphone when I want zero hiss on my multi driver high sensitivity type IEMs.


----------



## RvTrav

PhonoPhi said:


> The last time I checked - the drivers were firmly glued together, so the arrangement is kind of working
> 
> I was happy to see/know that the angular placement of the boards is a feature rather than the bug
> 
> ...



Received the Tempotec V1a several weeks ago.  I have a Fiio X1 with Fiio E12a that I was using as my primary source and the reason for purchasing the V1a was for the blue tooth capabilities.  The V1a is very well built and the Hiby OS is responsive and has many features.  I thought the V1a would need an amp or dac/amp; I have the Fiio Q1 dac/amp and Fiio E11K amp that I could use the V1a but I am finding the V1a very capable on its own, I like the way it sounds and have not found any IEM that I have that seems to need more power that supplied by the V1a.  Unless Tempotec is offering a package deal you might want to get the V1a first and see if feel the need for a dac or amp.  The V1a is one my best purchases for the year greatly exceeding my expectations and has replaced my X1/E12a as my primary source.


----------



## BubisUK

+1 for Tempotec V1-A, very nice little player. ASX sound great on it as well


----------



## Viber

Alpha Whale said:


> For me, everything gets brighter from the upper midrange to the upper treble. That may be suitable for a warmer in-ear (BQ3, C10, CA16, BA10) but an unwelcome alteration to a brighter earphone (ZS6, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, A10), depending on the earphone .
> 
> I don't know which manufacturers tune their earphones with the included eartips or which manufacturers just throw in their standard eartips but it's worth noting that *the eartip plays a definite part in how the listener perceives the tuning*.
> 
> It will be interesting to hear your feedback on the difference  in the ZS6's presentation given the two eartips in your photo.



Actually, the better fit and insertion caused by the shallow tips make the treble area much more focused and less piercing for me. Obviously the bass is more prominent as well which makes the harsher frequencies less noticeable as well.


----------



## Alpha Whale

Viber said:


> Actually, the better fit and insertion caused by the shallow tips make the treble area much more focused and less piercing for me. Obviously the bass is more prominent as well which makes the harsher frequencies less noticeable as well.



That makes shallow eartips king in my book.











seanwee said:


> Except for complys tho. Those sound terrible.



I have many different sets of foam eartips but I just don't use them. For my ears the benefit of foam eartips is that they typically take the edge off of the more analytical presentation that BAs offer but the disadvantage is that foam eartips (for my ears) also suck the body and weight from the lower frequencies and the lower midrange which leaves the presentation sounding a bit too thin and unnatural. Given my personal preferences regarding sound signature I don't mind taking the benefits but I am far less enthusiastic about the drawbacks. For a lot of people foam eartips are the best solution when it comes to fit, comfort, hygiene and sound. After experimenting for several years with a wide selection of eartips I've come to the conclusion that, in general, shallow eartips with a wide bore are the best solution for my ears. 




kmmbd said:


> Overall detail retrieval is also slightly better on the R2 from single ended (balanced out is on another plane entirely). However, the difference isn't worth nearly 3x the price-hike (from single-ended only), so Plenue V's single-ended out is plenty capable I'd say.



I appreciate the feedback. Thanks for making the point about the value proposition because that's where I was headed in the discussion. The Plenue V should be more than sufficient for an *on-the-go* solution for most in-ears but its great sound and low output impedance (0.5Ω) solve common problems for finicky all-BA in-ears like the ASF/ASX or first generation ZS5. My first Plenue (Plenue D) made the low impedance (8Ω) of the first generation ZS5 a non issue. I didn't have to hunt for a compatible source. The solution was baked into the Plenue before production commenced at the factory. 

I suppose that makes me a Cowon fanboy. 







kmmbd said:


> In terms of JetEffects, the PEQ on the Plenue R2 has more bands and can also save more presets. The JetEffect controls are also more fine-grained on the JetEffects 7 vs JetEffects 5. The DSP effects themselves are mostly similar sounding. So I won't say that you miss much of the _DSP Magic _on the Plenue V vs the R2.



Again, I appreciate the feedback. 

The odd looks can be an acquired taste but it's really a very capable and inexpensive solution.


----------



## Pelicampe

I find a KZ SA08 review :
Medium sound, great for acoustics instruments. But no sub bass and noisy background...

https://www.scarbir.com/tws/kz-sa08-review

On the other hand, I just received my cristal EDX. One week and one day to come from China to France !

A really good surprise. Bought them 2,7€ shipped, it's a steal ! I'll made a mini return after burning.


----------



## redguardsoldier

Pelicampe said:


> I find a KZ SA08 review :
> Medium sound, great for acoustics instruments. But no sub bass and noisy background...
> 
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/kz-sa08-review
> ...



Omg, you're the author of that website? I love it. Your website helped me a lot in my search for a pair of tws back then.

Please do come back to share your opinions on the EDX.


----------



## astermk

Pelicampe said:


> I find a KZ SA08 review :
> Medium sound, great for acoustics instruments. But no sub bass and noisy background...
> 
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/kz-sa08-review
> ...


Where did you find them for that cheap?


----------



## Pelicampe (Nov 23, 2020)

I'm not the owner no ^^.
Found this while searching some info on soundpeat TWS.

A lot of stuff tested 

@astermk : buy them on Aliex 11.11 sales with some coupons. On CCA store


----------



## paulwasabii

Pelicampe said:


> I find a KZ SA08 review :
> Medium sound, great for acoustics instruments. But no sub bass and noisy background...
> 
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/kz-sa08-review
> ...



I love the Scarbir reviews also but I will offer my two cents on a couple things mentioned which I had mentioned in my review.  The mids are forward and you need to have some volume restraint as it will go shouty as described.  My problem was that it sounds really good and you will want to turn it up, but then you will hit a female vocal and I would notch the volume back down.  I definitely listened at a lower volume than my KZ Z1.  The white noise is noticeable on the built-in announcements, but my music tends to not be quiet enough to hear it.

The bass is interesting.  With BA only, I tend to think more about missing it, does this track sound tinny or truncated because there is not enough extension.  I think KZ went out of their way to add more than enough bass to add warmth to the mids.  It doesn't have that dry/lean/thin BA sound.  My first thought wasn't that it was not rumbling in my ear, but there is just a bit too much in the mids which is good on one hand, but not if you are looking for a very clean BA sound.

I probably enjoyed the whole BA family SA08, ASF, ASX more than most so take that into consideration.


----------



## chinerino

Just did a review for the KZ ZS10 Pro! https://www.perrivanaudio.com/post/kz-zs10-pro-review


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 24, 2020)

I know this it the KZ thread, but CCA (sister company of KZ) seems to be releasing a new multi driver model (again). Link here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH9ujkjp_VK/?igshid=i7ely76qxk19







8 BA set? CCA CS16. Once again a confusing naming convention. But more importantly, after the controversial ASX and ASF saga, maybe might be wise to wait for early reviews to filter out first before jumping in to buy.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 24, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> I know this it the KZ thread, but CCA (sister company of KZ) seems to be releasing a new multi driver model (again). Link here:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CH9ujkjp_VK/?igshid=i7ely76qxk19
> 
> ...



Oh no, here we go again. Same shell design with narrow nozzle and weird protrusion too. Don't worry folks, 5 BAs didn't work, 10 BAs certainly didn't make things better, but they've figured out a sweet spot of 8 BAs.

The only hope is that they look to actually have a vent this time for the vented bass unit.

Also, I can just imagine their marketing meeting: C16 and CA16 have been already used, so what comes after A in KZ's BA naming scheme? S. CS16 it is!


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> I know this it the KZ thread, but CCA (sister company of KZ) seems to be releasing a new multi driver model (again). Link here:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CH9ujkjp_VK/?igshid=i7ely76qxk19
> 
> ...


Yep, the name, design... and no C20  I may still get it 

ASX really grow on me in the last days listening to them: gentle but resolving treble, surprisingly tolerant but revealing with moderate quality recordings (as often the case with classical music); just the perceived scoop between a bit too powerful bass and mids is a bit bothering.


----------



## Pelicampe

they are still less ugly than the ASX/ASF  

So, I 've got C16, CA16... Does I really need this ? They look really nice, must resist !


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 24, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> Oh no, here we go again. Same shell design with narrow nozzle and weird protrusion too. Don't worry folks, 5 BAs didn't work, 10 BAs certainly didn't make things better, but they've figured out a sweet spot of 8 BAs.
> 
> The only hope is that they look to actually have a vent this time for the vented bass unit.
> 
> Also, I can just imagine their marketing meeting: C16 and CA16 have been already used, so what comes after A in KZ's BA naming scheme? S. CS16 it is!





unifutomaki said:


> Oh no, here we go again. Same shell design with narrow nozzle and weird protrusion too. Don't worry folks, 5 BAs didn't work, 10 BAs certainly didn't make things better, but they've figured out a sweet spot of 8 BAs.
> 
> The only hope is that they look to actually have a vent this time for the vented bass unit.
> 
> Also, I can just imagine their marketing meeting: C16 and CA16 have been already used, so what comes after A in KZ's BA naming scheme? S. CS16 it is!


They still have more than 20 other letters remaining to get it right 

P. S. To my tastes, CS16 would win a lame design contest.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 24, 2020)

Pelicampe said:


> they are still less ugly than the ASX/ASF
> 
> So, I 've got C16, CA16... Does I really need this ? They look really nice, must resist !



Haha, I feel like the more KZs people get, the more cynical they become about KZ  they're best enjoyed in moderation, I think!*

* kinda like fast food. Hmm. KZ, the McDonald's of IEMs?


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> Oh no, here we go again. Same shell design with narrow nozzle and weird protrusion too. Don't worry folks, 5 BAs didn't work, 10 BAs certainly didn't make things better, but they've figured out a sweet spot of 8 BAs.
> 
> The only hope is that they look to actually have a vent this time for the vented bass unit.
> 
> Also, I can just imagine their marketing meeting: C16 and CA16 have been already used, so what comes after A in KZ's BA naming scheme? S. CS16 it is!



Maybe I'm cynical, but the past few months I feel some CHIFI companies like KZ/CCA and TRN are kinda treating us as beta testers or guinea pigs. They launch sidegrades/marginal upgrades on an almost bimonthly basis and it seems like they are throwing stuff on a wall and hoping something finally sticks. Kinda hit or miss if you will get a turd or gem when you buy a new multi driver KZ/TRN. And worse still if they release a "Pro" version of what you just bought a few weeks later. What you bought from Aliexpress after 2 months of braving the mail in some Atlantic Ocean journey around the world may turn out to be obsolete!

I do hope this CCA CS16 will turn out to be good, but I also honestly wouldn't mind if they take their time to refine and tune and slow down their releases, and go for quality over quantity. I used to buy any new KZ release 2 years ago, kinda like collecting pokemon, but nowadays I'll only wait for reviews first and am scared to do a blind purchase, especially if it is more than $50 USD.


----------



## saldsald

baskingshark said:


> Maybe I'm cynical, but the past few months I feel some CHIFI companies like KZ/CCA and TRN are kinda treating us as beta testers or guinea pigs. They launch sidegrades/marginal upgrades on an almost bimonthly basis and it seems like they are throwing stuff on a wall and hoping something finally sticks. Kinda hit or miss if you will get a turd or gem when you buy a new multi driver KZ/TRN. And worse still if they release a "Pro" version of what you just bought a few weeks later. What you bought from Aliexpress after 2 months of braving the mail in some Atlantic Ocean journey around the world may turn out to be obsolete!
> 
> I do hope this CCA CS16 will turn out to be good, but I also honestly wouldn't mind if they take their time to refine and tune and slow down their releases, and go for quality over quantity. I used to buy any new KZ release 2 years ago, kinda like collecting pokemon, but nowadays I'll only wait for reviews first and am scared to do a blind purchase, especially if it is more than $50 USD.


I agree and I am selling all my KZ except the EDX.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 24, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Maybe I'm cynical, but the past few months I feel some CHIFI companies like KZ/CCA and TRN are kinda treating us as beta testers or guinea pigs. They launch sidegrades/marginal upgrades on an almost bimonthly basis and it seems like they are throwing stuff on a wall and hoping something finally sticks. Kinda hit or miss if you will get a turd or gem when you buy a new multi driver KZ/TRN. And worse still if they release a "Pro" version of what you just bought a few weeks later. What you bought from Aliexpress after 2 months of braving the mail in some Atlantic Ocean journey around the world may turn out to be obsolete!
> 
> I do hope this CCA CS16 will turn out to be good, but I also honestly wouldn't mind if they take their time to refine and tune and slow down their releases, and go for quality over quantity. I used to buy any new KZ release 2 years ago, kinda like collecting pokemon, but nowadays I'll only wait for reviews first and am scared to do a blind purchase, especially if it is more than $50 USD.



It can definitely feel like a gamble at times with KZ/CCA. My gamble paid off with the ZAX (it's still very enjoyable) and didn't really matter with the cheap woodies (they're good enough to sit in my bag as a permanent backup/spontaneous videoconferencing IEM) but most everything else they've tried to do above the 50 USD mark has unfortunately turned out to be more turkey than phoenix, the C10 Pro represents a backwards step in tuning according to pretty much everybody, and the ZSN and ZST haven't meaningfully changed for the better since 2018 and prior.

I agree that they would be better off taking stock of where they are with their sound and really taking the time to develop something good because they're definitely capable of it.

As an aside, even collecting Pokemon might be more rewarding than collecting KZs since there are like, meaningful differences between Pokemon and stuff

Although I said I'd be picking up the $19 V90S, I was too slow and as a result didn't manage to get one. But I'm not in the least affected by that because...well, I feel like could already picture how it sounds like anyway. $19 not spent here is $19 saved, on one hand to rehabilitate my wallet after this month, on the other hand to have $19 more for the next big AE sale. After all, there will always be a next sale.


----------



## PhonoPhi

unifutomaki said:


> ...
> As an aside, even collecting Pokemon might be more rewarding than collecting KZs since there are like, meaningful differences between Pokemon and stuff


Here we can disagree.
At least you can listen to music with IEMs. Unless, of course, you talk to Pokemons


----------



## rayliam80

Just for a laugh but was just perusing through the Black Friday listing at Penon's website and saw this error...


----------



## IEMusic

rayliam80 said:


> Just for a laugh but was just perusing through the Black Friday listing at Penon's website and saw this error...


Hah!  Sweet deal!  Hurry and get it!


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> Here we can disagree.
> At least you can listen to music with IEMs. Unless, of course, you talk to Pokemons



my son collected them, even he's bored already. if it's a real life one though, i would get even one of them flying ones to get around... sure beats car driving


----------



## Jonatan

Sadly today my iem cable broke as i am quite new to this hobby i have only one spare cable its the old cooper kz cable that came with kz zst 
My asf cable broke 
And i have two questions
Will the zst cable work with the asf
And what cheap 8/16 core do you recommend from a trusted seller?


----------



## Pelicampe

I 've got an NICEHCK C16-4 and very like it.
Good construction, really really flexible and soft.

Can easy found them on Aliex


----------



## Jonatan

is 


Jonatan said:


> Sadly today my iem cable broke as i am quite new to this hobby i have only one spare cable its the old cooper kz cable that came with kz zst
> My asf cable broke
> And i have two questions
> Will the zst cable work with the asf
> And what cheap 8/16 core do you recommend from a trusted seller?


Will thease one be ok in qdc or 2 pin?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Jonatan said:


> is
> 
> Will thease one be ok in qdc or 2 pin?


Sorry to hear about your cable.

QDC is the one; and imaged is a perfectly good cable; TRN T2 would be the cheapest of 16 cores. KBear is a good brand  (I like their 16 cores the best, but most of these cables are made by the same factory and rebranded with minor modifications).


----------



## MacAttack7

New review on the KZ ASX:


----------



## paulwasabii

MacAttack7 said:


> New review on the KZ ASX:




I am on team ASX. Maybe I got lucky with a good one, but I like it.  Qudelix-5k, KB Ear limpid silver cable, and Azla tips.


----------



## courierdriver

rayliam80 said:


> Just for a laugh but was just perusing through the Black Friday listing at Penon's website and saw this error...


Lol! Bought my replacement set in June Aliexpress Anniversary sale for $34 CDN. Obviously, someone got their decimals mixed up. Guessing these should have been listed at about $26.70??


----------



## baskingshark (Nov 25, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> I know this it the KZ thread, but CCA (sister company of KZ) seems to be releasing a new multi driver model (again). Link here:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CH9ujkjp_VK/?igshid=i7ely76qxk19
> 
> ...



Friends, the CCA CS16 has just been released on Aliexpress on multiple stores at $90 USD before coupons.
Just search "CCA CS16", some stores do a click bait and lump it with cheaper cables and other KZ/CCA pokemons to generate a "cheaper" price when searching, but I think it is $89 - 90 USD on most stores.















Achtung: the treble roll off (assuming the store graph is legit) is a bit worrisome. Well I'll wait for reviews, but any brave first adopters?


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 25, 2020)

I hadn't realised that the CCA sub-brand has only just passed its 2 year anniversary. Their prolific release cadence creates an illusion that they've been around way longer.

90 USD is not spare change, so I won't be blind buying these. Any takers?


----------



## Pelicampe

Can afford for 70€ (if does not take into account the -10 coupon)

Really like the design !
I must resist, I don't need another 16 stuff from CCA 

Unfortunatly they didn't equiped with news blacks BAs.....


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> I hadn't realised that the CCA sub-brand has only just passed its 2 year anniversary. Their prolific release cadence creates an illusion that they've been around way longer.
> 
> 90 USD is not spare change, so I won't be blind buying these. Any takers?



Well CCA = KZ. So they can name themselves whatever they want, the KZ bosses still get the moolah in the end, whether you buy a CCA or a KZ. When CCA first came out 2 years back, I thought their house signature was more focusing on a less V shaped tuning compared to the KZs. But seems some of the later releases like CCA C12 and CCA C10 pro are back to V shaped tunings, so kinda hard to predict what tuning will arrive with a new CCA release.

Agreed $90 USD before coupons is a bit fierce. KZ's past few attempts at going near or beyond the $100 USD mark didn't do too well, but I suppose the price of the CCA CS16 will drop after a few weeks post launch. And by then, another KZ/CCA will also likely have launched and be the new flavour of the week.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 25, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Well CCA = KZ. So they can name themselves whatever they want, the KZ bosses still get the moolah in the end, whether you buy a CCA or a KZ. When CCA first came out 2 years back, I thought their house signature was more focusing on a less V shaped tuning compared to the KZs. But seems some of the later releases like CCA C12 and CCA C10 pro are back to V shaped tunings, so kinda hard to predict what tuning will arrive with a new CCA release.
> 
> Agreed $90 USD before coupons is a bit fierce. KZ's past few attempts at going near or beyond the $100 USD mark didn't do too well, but I suppose the price of the CCA CS16 will drop after a few weeks post launch. And by then, another KZ/CCA will also likely have launched and be the new flavour of the week.



My body is ready for another controversy. Place your bets: will the CS16 be the bestest Pokemon yet, or will it be (in @kmmbd's words) a turd that you can’t polish? Time will tell (probably around 2 weeks from now, give or take)


----------



## BubisUK

I am really tempted, would work out to 70$ with an extra cable after coupons  But the factory graph looks like the one from KZ ASF, so It might end up being same tuning with elevated bass.


----------



## Jonatan

are you able to hear a diffrecnce between a silver platen and pure silver cable
im going to be using them with asf and probabbly with other iems in the future

also is AK audiostore a safe place to buy?


----------



## Pelicampe

If you haven't got the golden ears, the high end DAP and really goods iems -> you will not notice anything...

Place this cost difference in better IEM.
Tips rolling is more reliable ans have noticiable effect.

AK is good rated but they play some bad jokes while last 11.11 sales....


----------



## unifutomaki

Jonatan said:


> are you able to hear a diffrecnce between a silver platen and pure silver cable
> im going to be using them with asf and probabbly with other iems in the future
> 
> also is AK audiostore a safe place to buy?



Short answer: no.

There are better stores to do business with than AK.


----------



## Aparker2005

I like those CS16s based off the design alone. May wait though for reviews. Don't need another iem but they look great!


----------



## Nimweth (Nov 25, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Friends, the CCA CS16 has just been released on Aliexpress on multiple stores at $90 USD before coupons.
> Just search "CCA CS16", some stores do a click bait and lump it with cheaper cables and other KZ/CCA pokemons to generate a "cheaper" price when searching, but I think it is $89 - 90 USD on most stores.
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm. That looks like 5 per side. 1 x 22955, 1x29689, 2x31736 and 1x30017. It's the CS10!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Hmm. That looks like 5 per side. 1 x 22955, 1x29689, 2x31736 and 1x30017. It's the CS10!


They are tiny drivers in pairs, but there are 2×2 31736 and 2 × 30017.
About a buck a piece each judging by the difference in price with ASX.
So CS16  just have 2 × 30017 less compared to ASX, and the treble is as demonstratively rolled off in their fairy tale graphs...


----------



## paulwasabii

Jonatan said:


> are you able to hear a diffrecnce between a silver platen and pure silver cable
> im going to be using them with asf and probabbly with other iems in the future
> 
> also is AK audiostore a safe place to buy?



I would save some money and go with the 4 core KBEAR Limpid and maybe 2 pin if you plan to buy other iems in the future


----------



## hocus sonus

baskingshark said:


> I don't have the ASX, but that is a common issue in highly sensitive multi driver IEMs, they do pick up hiss. The ASX has a reported sensitivity of 106 dB/mW, that would be considered quite high sensitivity and I wouldn't be surprised that hiss occurs. It is not the impedance value but the high sensitivity that may cause hiss.
> 
> There's a few ways to remove the hiss:
> 1) use an in line volume controller
> ...


Thanks!   Ordered! 😉


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> They are tiny drivers in pairs, but there are 2×2 31736 and 2 × 30017.
> About a buck a piece each judging by the difference in price with ASX.
> So CS16  just have 2 × 30017 less compared to ASX, and the treble is as demonstratively rolled off in their fairy tale graphs...


One positive feature is that there are no BAs in the nozzle.


----------



## Mouseman

Jonatan said:


> are you able to hear a diffrecnce between a silver platen and pure silver cable
> im going to be using them with asf and probabbly with other iems in the future
> 
> also is AK audiostore a safe place to buy?


I would just order from the KBear store - I've had good luck with them. Those are good choices, I'm a big fan of their cables.


----------



## Jonatan

Mouseman said:


> I would just order from the KBear store - I've had good luck with them. Those are good choices, I'm a big fan of their cables.


Thanks im buying from kbear store then

Is the limpid cable better than the normal silver cable?


----------



## IEMusic

Jonatan said:


> Thanks im buying from kbear store then
> 
> Is the limpid cable better than the normal silver cable?


With KBEAR, AFAIK, the Limpid cables are their only pure silver cables, though there is now the Limpid (4 core) and Limpid Pro (8 core) cables.


----------



## Mouseman

IEMusic said:


> With KBEAR, AFAIK, the Limpid cables are their only pure silver cables, though there is now the Limpid (4 core) and Limpid Pro (8 core) cables.


I saw those nylon covered ones, too. They're single crystal copper and I'm intrigued.


----------



## Viber

Could it be that each year KZ has containers of  "To be released" IEMS just waiting to be announced and sold?
They are churning those out like ice cream flavors!


----------



## IEMusic

Mouseman said:


> I saw those nylon covered ones, too. They're single crystal copper and I'm intrigued.


Do you mean the KBEAR UPOCC cables like this?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000348454062.html

I have this cable, and use it with my MEST.  It works great.


----------



## Mouseman

IEMusic said:


> Do you mean the KBEAR UPOCC cables like this?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000348454062.html
> 
> I have this cable, and use it with my MEST.  It works great.


Yes, that's the one. Is it more flexible than it looks? That was my only concern. The current sale is pretty good. I have a bunch of their 16 core ones, they're built very well and have good sound.


----------



## trumpethead

With all the recent ba10 talk im tempted to get one at 42 usd... Is it still worth getting this "old" set with so much new stuff out.. Fit is a bit worrisome but sound quality seems right up my alley for an all ba... Let's Go!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

unifutomaki said:


> It can definitely feel like a gamble at times with KZ/CCA.
> 
> I agree that they would be better off taking stock of where they are with their sound and really taking the time to develop something good because they're definitely capable of it.



I feel as if this is what several Chi-Fi manufacturers should be doing at this time. Enthusiasts are fairly saturated with IEMs right now. Some companies should stop trying to 'get the next thing into production,' and instead take the time to really do research.

There's a lot of feedback coming from an international audience these days. We know what we like and don't like. They should conduct some market research, talk to customers, and actually set goals and develop something to meet those goals.



> Although I said I'd be picking up the $19 V90S, I was too slow and as a result didn't manage to get one. But I'm not in the least affected by that because...well, I feel like could already picture how it sounds like anyway. $19 not spent here is $19 saved, on one hand to rehabilitate my wallet after this month, on the other hand to have $19 more for the next big AE sale. After all, there will always be a next sale.



I forgot to pick up the $19 V90S as well, and I don't care. TRN didn't produce any 'must-haves' this round. They should find out what listeners want, and produce it.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

rayliam80 said:


> Just for a laugh but was just perusing through the Black Friday listing at Penon's website and saw this error...



I can beat that deal! Check out what I was offered on 11.11:


----------



## baskingshark

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I feel as if this is what several Chi-Fi manufacturers should be doing at this time. Enthusiasts are fairly saturated with IEMs right now. Some companies should stop trying to 'get the next thing into production,' and instead take the time to really do research.
> 
> There's a lot of feedback coming from an international audience these days. We know what we like and don't like. They should conduct some market research, talk to customers, and actually set goals and develop something to meet those goals.
> 
> ...



I thought the recent CCA C10 Pro, TRN BA8 and TRN VX wasn't the best in terms of tuning, they had too much boosted upper mids/lower treble and were fatiguing for me. They had very good technicalities mind you, just that I couldn't use them for long.

I did feedback to a few sellers via Aliexpress about this boosted treble/upper mids that westerners apparently don't like. So the sellers apparently spoke to their manufactures and their reply was quite consistent that the local Chinese community seems to like the 2 - 4 kHz upper mids peak to complement their music, which features a lot of female vocals. They even have a term for it: musical poison (毒音).
Some Westerners find this peak fatiguing, but most of the CHIFI sets are tuned and tested for their local Chinese community. Our western market that buys and discuss CHIFI heatedly here is probably a very small drop in the ocean (probably thousands at most?) compared to a potential 1 billion local Chinese market pool. If I were a CHIFI manufacturer, yeah I would go for where the money is and tune accordingly, so I can see where they are coming from.

IMHO, I also suspect a few budget companies boost this 2 - 4 kHz and lower treble region to boost clarity and give a "perceived" AKA fake sense of more details in the music. This was quite prevalent in the earlier CHIFI releases, but nowadays probably CHIFI tuning has become better so they don't really need to resort to this tactic anymore.


----------



## saldsald

baskingshark said:


> I thought the recent CCA C10 Pro, TRN BA8 and TRN VX wasn't the best in terms of tuning, they had too much boosted upper mids/lower treble and were fatiguing for me. They had very good technicalities mind you, just that I couldn't use them for long.
> 
> I did feedback to a few sellers via Aliexpress about this boosted treble/upper mids that westerners apparently don't like. So the sellers apparently spoke to their manufactures and their reply was quite consistent that the local Chinese community seems to like the 2 - 4 kHz upper mids peak to complement their music, which features a lot of female vocals. They even have a term for it: musical poison (毒音).
> Some Westerners find this peak fatiguing, but most of the CHIFI sets are tuned and tested for their local Chinese community. Our western market that buys and discuss CHIFI heatedly here is probably a very small drop in the ocean (probably thousands at most?) compared to a potential 1 billion local Chinese market pool. If I were a CHIFI manufacturer, yeah I would go for where the money is and tune accordingly, so I can see where they are coming from.
> ...



I think "女毒" is the more correct term here, literally meaning poisonous female vocal sound.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 26, 2020)

saldsald said:


> I think "女毒" is the more correct term here, literally meaning poisonous female vocal sound.



Another English translation: shrieking banshee 

Personally I don't have any issue with Chi-Fi manufacturers tuning for the tastes of the local market, but the quality of the implementation and the extent to which the drivers can handle it is what counts.


----------



## voicemaster

Thank God I am Asian. That's why that peak never bothered me xD.


----------



## Nimweth

trumpethead said:


> With all the recent ba10 talk im tempted to get one at 42 usd... Is it still worth getting this "old" set with so much new stuff out.. Fit is a bit worrisome but sound quality seems right up my alley for an all ba... Let's Go!


Don't think about it. They are special, and my favourite KZ. Fit can be difficult for some though with the square shape.


----------



## trumpethead

Nimweth said:


> Don't think about it. They are special, and my favourite KZ. Fit can be difficult for some though with the square shape.


Thanks for the response. I know that you favor them and I trust your opinion.. For 42 bucks worth taking the chance.


----------



## alamnp

saldsald said:


> I think "女毒" is the more correct term here, literally meaning poisonous female vocal sound.



I LOVE 4K peak, it gives more clarity... I DESPISED any 4K drop, anybody likes 4K drop?
I felt all IEM with 4-5K drop sounds muddy.


----------



## alamnp

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I feel as if this is what several Chi-Fi manufacturers should be doing at this time. Enthusiasts are fairly saturated with IEMs right now. Some companies should stop trying to 'get the next thing into production,' and instead take the time to really do research.
> 
> There's a lot of feedback coming from an international audience these days. We know what we like and don't like. They should conduct some market research, talk to customers, and actually set goals and develop something to meet those goals.
> 
> ...



Trust me, you don't miss a thing V90s sucks like hell... muddy, poor isolation, and treble peak.


----------



## PhonoPhi

alamnp said:


> I LOVE 4K peak, it gives more clarity... I DESPISED any 4K drop, anybody likes 4K drop?
> I felt all IEM with 4-5K drop sounds muddy.


Do you have A10/KB10? - They are your IEMs then, I love them in some recordings, especially plucked strings.

AS16, still my favourite,  are also cheerful in treble


----------



## alamnp (Nov 27, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Do you have A10/KB10? - They are your IEMs then, I love them in some recordings, especially plucked strings.
> 
> AS16, still my favourite,  are also cheerful in treble



I was in a bit vacuum after I got my ZS6, two years later ZS10 Pro and until the lockdown...

I was so bored during the lockdown and working from home, I started to dwell back on ear monitors.... 

I have none of them A10/KB10, but now I am used to ZAX and of course my old ZS10 Pro and ZS6.
I am a bit treble sensitive, but for me 4K drop is a no no.
even for TFZ Tequila, I love it so much due to no 4K drop, even though it's a bass head IEM, the clarity is there.

TRN V90 and V90s even though some people love them... to me they are subpar due to 4K drop.

And I understood why some people don't like CCA CA16, that quick drop in 5K region can result in muddy sound sometimes, but not a lot of time due to 6K peak and a bit help from 15K spike.


----------



## voicemaster

It is winter, time to take out the headphones. Been enjoying oppo PM3 this week. The KZs are in vacation mode right now.


----------



## alamnp

Anyone received the KZ ZS10 Pro sold by an Aussie Ebayer back in October?


----------



## trumpethead

alamnp said:


> Anyone received the KZ ZS10 Pro sold by an Aussie Ebayer back in October?


Still waiting.... Sent seller a msg a week ago.. No response, although they did respond to others I've heard... Still keeping hope alive... Seller eBay ratings are still 100% with a few added in the last month...


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> It is winter, time to take out the headphones. Been enjoying oppo PM3 this week. The KZs are in vacation mode right now.



use the KZs with earmuffs


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 27, 2020)

chinmie said:


> use the KZs with earmuffs


Can't beat planar tho! And it is wireless too.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Can't beat planar tho! And it is wireless too.



wow... nice, thank you for all of your inputs bro...

btw, how's OPPO compared to HIFIMAN? I have an old cans, thinking maybe getting a Hifiman


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> wow... nice, thank you for all of your inputs bro...
> 
> btw, how's OPPO compared to HIFIMAN? I have an old cans, thinking maybe getting a Hifiman


I like them both. I have Hifiman HE400S and I think they both comparable, but the 400S is open and the PM3 is closed. The oppo has a much better build quality, but too bad they are discontinued (the company closed down or something). You can only find a "used" one right now.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> I like them both. I have Hifiman HE400S and I think they both comparable, but the 400S is open and the PM3 is closed. The oppo has a much better build quality, but too bad they are discontinued (the company closed down or something). You can only find a "used" one right now.



thanks, will probably get Hifiman for XMAS


----------



## reese170 (Nov 28, 2020)

NVM


----------



## Gummybuns

reese170 said:


> Does the AS12 / AS16 have the same bright signature?




AS16 was the first flagship of KZ that sorta steered away from the KZ hump. It's not that bright per se the increased mids were noticeable.


----------



## axhng

KZ DQ6 coming soon. seems interesting.


----------



## voicemaster

Now that is interesting. 3 DDs, but damn they really like the new body style.


----------



## Nimweth

alamnp said:


> I LOVE 4K peak, it gives more clarity... I DESPISED any 4K drop, anybody likes 4K drop?
> I felt all IEM with 4-5K drop sounds muddy.


You will have to try to get a KBEAR Lark 4k version!


----------



## unifutomaki

axhng said:


> KZ DQ6 coming soon. seems interesting.



3 dynamic drivers per side? Now that's a pretty novel setup.


----------



## RCracer777

alamnp said:


> I LOVE 4K peak, it gives more clarity... I DESPISED any 4K drop, anybody likes 4K drop?
> I felt all IEM with 4-5K drop sounds muddy.





Nimweth said:


> You will have to try to get a KBEAR Lark 4k version!


Yup, get the KBEAR Lark 4k while you still can. You can get them trough Amazon, the only way at the moment I think.


----------



## Pelicampe

they did not get tired...


----------



## Viber

alamnp said:


> Anyone received the KZ ZS10 Pro sold by an Aussie Ebayer back in October?



Yea, i think we need to accept those will never come.  All the warning signs were there TBH.
He is already getting the negs in his reviews which is the first step to his store closing down.

I'm waiting to reach the ebay shipment deadline and more neg reviews so i could get my refund more quickly.


----------



## BubisUK

Pelicampe said:


> they did not get tired...


KZ is borrowing the philosophy of OPPOTY and NEVERGIVEUP 😃


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

alamnp said:


> rust me, you don't miss a thing V90s sucks like hell... muddy, poor isolation, and treble peak.


of course, if they have poor insulation, which is rare, then they will sound bad, this is logical, you call these headphones bad without well-placing them in your ear, very strange conclusions

pick up normal nozzles, such as foam or spinfit


----------



## Leo-rume (Nov 28, 2020)

axhng said:


> KZ DQ6 coming soon. seems interesting.


I swear man... If KZ spams yet another iem in this shell pettern. I might be alone in this, but I consider this shell style both aesthetically and ergonomically, a disaster. I'm never getting any release in that, not even if they somehow manage to trap lightening in it. I don't know about others though. Do you guys actually fancy this pattern?


----------



## Viber

axhng said:


> KZ DQ6 coming soon. seems interesting.



This is for amateurs!
I want 10 dynamic drivers on each side!


----------



## unifutomaki

Leo-rume said:


> I swear man... If KZ spams yet another iem in the shell pettern. I might be alone in this, but I consider this shell style both aesthetically and ergonomically, a disaster. I'm never getting any release in that, not even if they somehow manage to trap lightening in it. I don't know about others though. Do you guys actually fancy this pattern?



I certainly don't. I fail to understand why they believe this is a better shape for a universal IEM, complete with short TWS style nozzle and rear protrusion, versus what they already had with the ZS10 Pro and friends or even the half-moon shaped AS10 style. That aggressively tapered faceplate also looks naff really.


----------



## BubisUK

Leo-rume said:


> I swear man... If KZ spams yet another iem in the shell pettern. I might be alone in this, but I consider this shell style both aesthetically and ergonomically, a disaster. I'm never getting any release in that, not even if they somehow manage to trap lightening in it. I don't know about others though. Do you guys actually fancy this pattern?


Personality for me this type of shell is very comfortable and it fits very nicely 👍 Face plates could be nicer or they could make them replacable


----------



## PhonoPhi

unifutomaki said:


> I certainly don't. I fail to understand why they believe this is a better shape for a universal IEM, complete with short TWS style nozzle and rear protrusion, versus what they already had with the ZS10 Pro and friends or even the half-moon shaped AS10 style. That aggressively tapered faceplate also looks naff really.


Absolutely!

To me the worst is the narrow nozzle! (From the insight by one of the Head-Fi guru, CA16 dissection did not reveal any filters (!), it was hard for me to beleive), so the narrow nozzle striangulates, imposes "spinfits" for everyone, and the narrow nozzles never worked for me.

I *hope KZ listens - please get away from those narrow nozzles*, at least make the twins, as with ZAX/CA16!


----------



## BubisUK

PhonoPhi said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> To me the worst is the narrow nozzle! (From the insight by one of the Head-Fi guru, CA16 dissection did not reveal any filters (!), it was hard for me to beleive), so the narrow nozzle striangulates, imposes "spinfits" for everyone, and the narrow nozzles never worked for me.
> 
> I *hope KZ listens - please get away from those narrow nozzles*, at least make the twins, as with ZAX/CA16!


 KZ never listens, KZ knows best 😎 For me the narrow nozzles are a plus on these, so for each it's own, how they say.
 I just hope they will tune DQ6 not like all of the rest of their new offerings. It sounds in theory like could be an interesting offering, one tweeter, one midrange and one bass dinamic driver, could end up something special. But..


----------



## PhonoPhi

BubisUK said:


> KZ never listens, KZ knows best 😎 For me the narrow nozzles are a plus on these, so for each it's own, how they say.
> I just hope they will tune DQ6 not like all of the rest of their new offerings. It sounds in theory like could be an interesting offering, one tweeter, one midrange and one bass dinamic driver, could end up something special. But..


I think/hope KZ listens, they indeed do what they think is the best.

My main problem with the narrow vs. wide -is that one can always put narrow nozzles, but it is quite hard to replace the nozzle or drill the opening wider. I am tempted to do the latter, just need to get some TRNs (can't sacrifice KZs)


----------



## Jonatan

Leo-rume said:


> I swear man... If KZ spams yet another iem in this shell pettern. I might be alone in this, but I consider this shell style both aesthetically and ergonomically, a disaster. I'm never getting any release in that, not even if they somehow manage to trap lightening in it. I don't know about others though. Do you guys actually fancy this pattern?


i actually find the new design very compfortable fits me much better than the zs10pro like design


----------



## voicemaster

For me, aesthetically, it looks nice, but ergonomically its not the best. My right ear lobe starting to hurt when I use my ASX/ASF. It is better now, but still I could do without the lip. If I don’t love the sound of ASX/ASF, I would most likely returned it. The short and narrow nozzle hasn't give me any problem.


----------



## antdroid

I wrote a short set of impressions on the ASF and ASX: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/11/knowledge-zenith-kz-asx-and-asf.html


----------



## PhonoPhi

antdroid said:


> I wrote a short set of impressions on the ASF and ASX: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/11/knowledge-zenith-kz-asx-and-asf.html


Collecting KZ and reading reviewers' unbiased opinions is  indeed one of the most enjoyable HiFi hobbies 

Then there are reviews on the synergy of graphene and palladium cables


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 28, 2020)

Asound said:


> My ASX have arrived this monday.
> 
> The first measurements showed that they are on the bassy/darker side. Most "reviewers" gave them an atrocious rating. While some users here are almost astonishingly happy with how they sound. Is there a problem with quality control? What is going on? I needed to hear them for myself.
> 
> ...



*Always trust your own ears.*

Typically, you can sell off or trade what doesn't work for you.





PhonoPhi said:


> Bach solo cellos, I have a second (out of three) recording of Yo-Yo Ma, very decent.
> Maisky for expression, Rostropovich for one of the best cello sound (less for the style, arguably); many other recordings to suite any style and preference.



For Bach Cello suites I have the first two of Yo-Yo Ma's, Pablo Casals' and both of Gaillard's recordings but don't own the Rostropovich. I've considered picking up the Rostropovich and the Isserlis recordings but I've been dragging my feet because Gaillard's and Ma's recordings have quite a nice variance. Not to mention Gaillard's recent Vivaldi recording. It's lively and quite unlike the *"I MUSICI"* recordings I have (which I'm happy to have but they are _average_ in my opinion).



Spoiler



Best Cellists:
https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/instruments/cello/features/best-cellists-of-all-time/



I highly recommend the new Gaillard recording (*Vivaldi: I colori dell'ombra*)




PhonoPhi said:


> IEMatch really helps (ultra setting, especially) quite a bit: bass is a bit subsided, mids are more there, treble is shinier, so the impedance match is definitely an issue that may account for some difference in opinions.
> 
> I did spend quite a bit of time with the tips. Narrow bores (spinfit CP100 and my sets of hearing amplifier tips) did not work for me; to my ears shallow wide bores, such as spiral dots, still work best. Narrow bores emphasize midbass and cut treble for me.



Shallow wide bores practically across the board for most of my in-ears.

And, another fanboy comment from me, my Cowon Plenues have mitigated any and all impedance issues for all of my in-ears. No foreseeable worries as I move forward in the hobby. That's not a brag. I didn't design a thing. Just really impressed with their performance. 





paulwasabii said:


> I think KZ went out of their way to add more than enough bass to add warmth to the mids.  It doesn't have that dry/lean/thin BA sound.  My first thought wasn't that it was not rumbling in my ear, but there is just a bit too much in the mids which is good on one hand, but not if you are looking for a very clean BA sound.
> 
> I probably enjoyed the whole BA family SA08, ASF, ASX more than most so take that into consideration.



I think your description of the ASF sound signature and presentation was about as accurate an explanation as any. Highly recommend that anyone interested in the ASF/ASX review your videos.

Thanks for posting them.



Spoiler












PhonoPhi said:


> ASX really grow on me in the last days listening to them: gentle but resolving treble, surprisingly tolerant but revealing with moderate quality recordings (as often the case with classical music).


ASF, to me, has a more DD-like presentation and I like it. It's jarring going from a typical all-BA KZ in-ear to the ASF but once you adjust to the presentation it's quite relaxing. Apparently, the ASX has slightly more treble extension than the ASF but experimenting with different eartips and minimal EQ adjustments give the ASF a pleasant and unique presentation. I like having the option that the ASF provides. I've pointed out before that it doesn't sound like anything else in my varied collection, perhaps a much, much better ZS3.




trumpethead said:


> With all the recent ba10 talk im tempted to get one at 42 usd... Is it still worth getting this "old" set with so much new stuff out.. Fit is a bit worrisome but sound quality seems right up my alley for an all ba... Let's Go!



To me, fit and your source are the only issues with the BA10. Really great in-ear, even at full price.




PhonoPhi said:


> Do you have A10/KB10? - They are your IEMs then, I love them in some recordings, especially plucked strings.
> 
> AS16, still my favourite,  are also cheerful in treble



I can only handle the CCA A10 with violin and/or cello concertos. They sound as close to the real thing as anything else I've heard. I don't really care for their presentation with other genres.



Spoiler












axhng said:


> KZ DQ6 coming soon. seems interesting.






voicemaster said:


> Now that is interesting. 3 DDs, but damn they really like the new body style.



I think it's "interesting" that KZ have decided to experiment with tuning DDs as if they are BAs and developing BAs for a more DD-like presentation. It will be something very interesting or it will be completely disastrous.




PhonoPhi said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> To me the worst is the narrow nozzle! (From the insight by one of the Head-Fi guru, CA16 dissection did not reveal any filters (!), it was hard for me to beleive), so the narrow nozzle striangulates, imposes "spinfits" for everyone, and the narrow nozzles never worked for me.
> 
> I *hope KZ listens - please get away from those narrow nozzles*, at least make the twins, as with ZAX/CA16!



I've been wondering about the effect that narrow nozzles have on tuning as well.




BubisUK said:


> I just hope they will tune DQ6 not like all of the rest of their new offerings. It sounds in theory like could be an interesting offering, one tweeter, one midrange and one bass dinamic driver, could end up something special. But..



In truth I am looking at the DQ6 with interest as if it is a novel circus act. Multiple DD in-ears *can be* disastrous. My experience is that they are usually muddy (due to timing issues) or shouty (due to trying to tune the transducer's or treating a DD like a BA). Dual dynamics worked for the ZS5, ZS6, KC2, KB100 and the BQ3 but in all those cases the DDs were responsible for the lows and midrange.



Spoiler



BQ3




KC2




ZS6




KB100
https://penonaudio.com/bqeyz-kb100.html



If KZ can pull off a triple DD with smooth treble extension that doesn't sound muddy or shouty then I will simply have to get one. Yes, I expect it to be a V-shaped sound signature but I'm hoping it will be a DD version of the BA10. Great bass, great mids and a polite treble with decent extension. I'll probably be one of the few who won't mind giving the DQ6 a shot. Sometimes KZ's seemingly hair-brained ideas can really produce something unique and entertaining (BA10 & ZS5 come to mind). I do hope that they *do not* use narrow nozzles which may have contributed to the controversial tuning of the ASF/ASX.

The DQ6 experiment could prove fruitful or completely disastrous. That said, I simply can't sit this one out. For me, KZ has only produced a few "stinkers" (ED12 and HDS2 for example) and the sheer novelty of the DQ6 is just too tempting.


----------



## MacAttack7

antdroid said:


> I wrote a short set of impressions on the ASF and ASX: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/11/knowledge-zenith-kz-asx-and-asf.html


Can you give an example of a song that sounds bad on the ASF and what to listen for?
I'm terrible at evaluating earphones, so I'd like to compare a song that is obviously bad on the ASF and compare it to my other earphones or my headphones.


----------



## antdroid

MacAttack7 said:


> Can you give an example of a song that sounds bad on the ASF and what to listen for?
> I'm terrible at evaluating earphones, so I'd like to compare a song that is obviously bad on the ASF and compare it to my other earphones or my headphones.



I listen to primarily jazz trio music now, which has a lot of piano, drums and double bass. Currently enjoying Tingvall Trio or Gogo Penguin.
The V90 in your list of IEMs is, in my opinion, a more well-rounded IEM that works well with a lot of genres. You may be able to hear some of the differences in how cymbals and drums sound in this type of music or really any, though it's more apparent in music with a lot of snare or cymbals. The V90, though, kind of exaggerates treble a bit too much in my opinion.


----------



## kalo86

Hello guys, 

I'm listening to the music with the new arrived KZ Z1 true wireless. I am stunned by their audio quality considering that there is a technology limitation (due to the Bluetooth codec) and that they are not cabled. 
Anyway, I would like to buy another KZ iem but with the cable. 
Do you have any recommendations? 
I need a balanced 4.4mm cable as well because I have iBasso DX220 with the AMP8 balanced module. 

Thanks! 

kalo86


----------



## alamnp

kalo86 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I'm listening to the music with the new arrived KZ Z1 true wireless. I am stunned by their audio quality considering that there is a technology limitation (due to the Bluetooth codec) and that they are not cabled.
> Anyway, I would like to buy another KZ iem but with the cable.
> ...



I would say get the ZAX, overall easy to take in.


----------



## alamnp

Mr.HiAudio said:


> of course, if they have poor insulation, which is rare, then they will sound bad, this is logical, you call these headphones bad without well-placing them in your ear, very strange conclusions
> 
> pick up normal nozzles, such as foam or spinfit



I did, the only thing that could secure it well is comply foam which makes the upper frequency suffers. Very thin mid - which is a big no no... that 4K drop is not a joke


----------



## alamnp

RCracer777 said:


> Yup, get the KBEAR Lark 4k while you still can. You can get them trough Amazon, the only way at the moment I think.



I will pass, lol, just got KBear Believe, it's coming...


----------



## Slater (Nov 29, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> I think it's "interesting" that KZ have decided to experiment with tuning DDs as if they are BAs and developing BAs for a more DD-like presentation. It will be something very interesting or it will be completely disastrous.



Yes, very interesting (and refreshing frankly).

KZ has an established history of multiple DDs - ZS1 v1, ZS1 v2, ZS2, ZN1, ZN1 Mini, ZSE (and probably a few more that I don’t remember).

In fact, the original ZS1 v1, with its brass tuning ring and passive crossover network, is the best dynamic-only earphone KZ has ever made IMO. To this day it remains at the top of my list of all time favorite KZs.

I don’t believe they’re just experimenting and stumbling around in the dark with this new model. They’ve been doing dynamics years before they ever did their first hybrid or all-BA.

I have a good feeling in my bones that this new model may be the long awaited replacement to the ZS1 v1. I am going to wait for more technical details to be released, but I plan to buy this new model the minute it’s available. And that is coming from someone who has skipped most of their recent releases (ASF, ASX, ZSX, etc etc).


----------



## MacAttack7

antdroid said:


> I listen to primarily jazz trio music now, which has a lot of piano, drums and double bass. Currently enjoying Tingvall Trio or Gogo Penguin.
> The V90 in your list of IEMs is, in my opinion, a more well-rounded IEM that works well with a lot of genres. You may be able to hear some of the differences in how cymbals and drums sound in this type of music or really any, though it's more apparent in music with a lot of snare or cymbals. The V90, though, kind of exaggerates treble a bit too much in my opinion.


I think I must be the KZ target market. 
Tingvall Trio sounds good to me on ASF; sounds good on V90. I don't think I'm cut out for the earphone reviewing business.


----------



## Turbulance

voicemaster said:


> For me, aesthetically, it looks nice, but ergonomically its not the best. My right ear lobe starting to hurt when I use my ASX/ASF. It is better now, but still I could do without the lip. If I don’t love the sound of ASX/ASF, I would most likely returned it. The short and narrow nozzle hasn't give me any problem.



For me it was my left ear that was the hardest to fit this new design to, though I have found that with perseverance I have sort of got used to them. Now I can use them for a couple of hours before I must give my ears a short rest period from them.

But, on the plus side for me, the fit is really solid. These just hug tight and never get loose.

Though, because of the risk of pain I wouldn't sleep with these.

Given that human ears vary considerably in size and shape, I think they are a bad design for a universal IEM. If they don't fit they never will.


----------



## Slater

Does the ASF and ASX have the same shell as the ZSX? I wonder what it is about this new shell that is causing so many fitment complaints? Is the nozzle too short?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Does the ASF and ASX have the same shell as the ZSX? I wonder what it is about this new shell that is causing so many fitment complaints? Is the nozzle too short?


The shell is rather similar to CA16, the same narrow nozzle and TWS-like seams, only ASX shell (on the left) is larger with a definitely more intruding tail.


.


----------



## cleg

My video about SA08 is out. In short — sound is better than previous KZ TWS had, but issues are still present


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> The shell is rather similar to CA16, the same narrow nozzle and TWS-like seams, only ASX shell (on the left) is larger with a definitely more intruding tail..



Ah, ok. Yeah I don’t really like the fit of the CA16. The nozzle sucks. If KZ used the same nozzle as the ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro, CCA C10 etc, it would fit much better.


----------



## RCracer777

alamnp said:


> I will pass, lol, just got KBear Believe, it's coming...


If you've got one of those coming I can get skipping the Lark.

I'm interested in the Believe as well but seeing as most people are only getting their hands on them now, I'm waiting for more reviews before deciding whether or not to get them. Got the Moondrop Starfield and Shuoer Tape Pro on my short list already.


----------



## alamnp

RCracer777 said:


> If you've got one of those coming I can get skipping the Lark.
> 
> I'm interested in the Believe as well but seeing as most people are only getting their hands on them now, I'm waiting for more reviews before deciding whether or not to get them. Got the Moondrop Starfield and Shuoer Tape Pro on my short list already.



yupe waiting for mine, using BTR5 for my DAC, hopefully it's enough power to power this little one...

I might have to buy 2.5mm silver plated cable for it.


----------



## kalo86

Hello guys, I want to buy a dedicated balanced cable with the Pentaconn 4.4mm jack for the KZ ZAX. I am not sure if I have to choose the 2 pin version or the QDC connection:

https://www.amazon.it/dp/B07SRBZQM6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabt1_-soXFbBP0RZZ6

Can you give me a feedback? 
Thank you!


----------



## PhonoPhi

kalo86 said:


> Hello guys, I want to buy a dedicated balanced cable with the Pentaconn 4.4mm jack for the KZ ZAX. I am not sure if I have to choose the 2 pin version or the QDC connection:
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/dp/B07SRBZQM6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabt1_-soXFbBP0RZZ6
> 
> ...


QDC is the right type for ZAX.
2-pin will fit and can be used, if the cable may be planned to used with other IEMs, but not ideal esthetically  and for the reliability.


----------



## RCracer777 (Nov 30, 2020)

kalo86 said:


> Hello guys, I want to buy a dedicated balanced cable with the Pentaconn 4.4mm jack for the KZ ZAX. I am not sure if I have to choose the 2 pin version or the QDC connection:
> 
> https://www.amazon.it/dp/B07SRBZQM6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabt1_-soXFbBP0RZZ6
> 
> ...


I have those exact cables on my ZSX, QDC is ideally the one you want for the ZAX. Quality of those cables is good too.


----------



## wopossum

Hello! I'd like to get some advice! I used the KZ ZS5 for almost 3 years now, they were absolutely fine for me, but I want to change them for something better, the max price point is 45$.

I want a hybrid(not just DD or BA) setup, with a maximum possible amount of details while still providing a good balance between all the frequencies(slight V-shaped divergence is ok).
Bass and sub-bass on a level of previously mentioned ZS5 are fine, some sibilants too, but just quality&details should be better than the level of ZS5.

I need them for my smartphone and my player(Fiio M6, nothing much). Lossless music(FLAC/ALAC). Genres: future-garage, pop music, Japanese jazz(the 70s), some hip-hop, folk, neoclassical.

I heard people mentioning the ZS10 Pro, ZSX (Terminator?) and the TRN V90s, but it's hard to decide which are better for my case. Thanks. I hope you all doing good.


----------



## Slater

wopossum said:


> Hello! I'd like to get some advice! I used the KZ ZS5 for almost 3 years now, they were absolutely fine for me, but I want to change them for something better, the max price point is 45$.
> 
> I want a hybrid(not just DD or BA) setup, with a maximum possible amount of details while still providing a good balance between all the frequencies(slight V-shaped divergence is ok).
> Bass and sub-bass on a level of previously mentioned ZS5 are fine, some sibilants too, but just quality&details should be better than the level of ZS5.
> ...



Do you know which ZS5 you had? The ZS5 v1 sounded different than the ZS5 v2.


----------



## kalo86

wopossum said:


> Hello! I'd like to get some advice! I used the KZ ZS5 for almost 3 years now, they were absolutely fine for me, but I want to change them for something better, the max price point is 45$.
> 
> I want a hybrid(not just DD or BA) setup, with a maximum possible amount of details while still providing a good balance between all the frequencies(slight V-shaped divergence is ok).
> Bass and sub-bass on a level of previously mentioned ZS5 are fine, some sibilants too, but just quality&details should be better than the level of ZS5.
> ...


Probably you can look at the KZ ZAX. 
I'm in a similar situation, but the huge difference is that I never used a previous KZ iem. Therefore I'm trying to understand what is the latest flagship model from KZ.


----------



## wopossum

Slater said:


> Do you know which ZS5 you had? The ZS5 v1 sounded different than the ZS5 v2.


I bought them in March of 2018. I have also opened them (unfortunately, "opened" means that they were damaged by an accident) and it looks like it's v2 version. Both dd's are inside the case and Ba's are in the output (I honestly don't know how to call this thing).


----------



## wopossum

wopossum said:


> I bought them in March of 2018. I have also opened them (unfortunately, "opened" means that they were damaged by an accident) and it looks like it's v2 version. Both dd's are inside the case and Ba's are in the output (I honestly don't know how to call this thing).



They also tended to have sibilants at their 100 or more hours of use. Again, v2 most likely.


----------



## Slater (Nov 30, 2020)

wopossum said:


> I bought them in March of 2018. I have also opened them (unfortunately, "opened" means that they were damaged by an accident) and it looks like it's v2 version. Both dd's are inside the case and Ba's are in the output (I honestly don't know how to call this thing).



Gotcha, sounds like the ZS5 v2.

I would definitely recommend the ZAX then, and I think you’d be quite happy with them.

It’s not going to have the huge 10k peak and sibilance that the ZS5 v2 and ZS6 v1 had. It’s a huge improvement


----------



## unifutomaki

Agreed, you can't go wrong with the ZAX.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 30, 2020)

*I finally got my ideal KZ* 
and I did it myself

Before




After



With the wide nozzles on ASX, the difference in sound is similar to the switch from CA16 to ZAX - less striangulation, less V/L shape - nice and crisp treble, so much more enjoyable! Very happy! (Though few oopsies/destructions in the process).

I hope KZ can and will do it too for everyone! 

P. S. Really enjoying these wide-nozzle ASX


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> *I finally got my ideal KZ*
> and I did it myself
> 
> Before
> ...



Ah, you beat me to it! I was actual working on the same mod for my CA16. I already did one nozzle, but haven’t had time to to the other one.

It was actually accidental that I found out the nozzles are interchangeable. I had taken apart the CA16 to see how it’s internals are set up, and I was like hmmm I wonder if the wide nozzle fits and sure enough boom


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> *I finally got my ideal KZ*
> and I did it myself
> 
> Before
> ...


How do you do that?


----------



## PhonoPhi

voicemaster said:


> How do you do that?


Took wider nozzles from A10. The nozzles are detachable (just by hand, pliers are bad...) Narrow nozzles are 1/3-1/4 mm more narrow, so either the openings need to be widened or the fit to be forced to fit wider nozzles into ASX. CA16 plastic seems to be softer, so it may work better. I am reasonably happy with CA16 having ZAX.
Then ASX with wider nozzles is AS16++ to my ears


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 30, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Took wider nozzles from A10. The nozzles are detachable (just by hand, pliers are bad...) Narrow nozzles are 1/3-1/4 mm more narrow, so either the openings need to be widened or the fit to be forced to fit wider nozzles into ASX. CA16 plastic seems to be softer, so it may work better. I am reasonably happy with CA16 having ZAX.
> Then ASX with wider nozzles is AS16++ to my ears


How do you detached the nozzle? Just pull it out straight up? Does it have any glue that need to be heated? Can I use ZSN's nozzle?
I am fine with the narrow nozzle, but changing the nozzle will 100% change the sound so I am just curious and I have many KZ to use as donor.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Nov 30, 2020)

Slater said:


> Yes, very interesting (and refreshing frankly).
> 
> KZ has an established history of multiple DDs - ZS1 v1, ZS1 v2, ZS2, ZN1, ZN1 Mini, ZSE (and probably a few more that I don’t remember).
> 
> ...



Absolutely agree about KZ's established history regarding DD in-ears but I wonder if the DD era at KZ was headed by the original owners "K" & "Z". Didn't they sell the company around the time the ZST or hybrids began or shortly thereafter or am I mistaken?




Slater said:


> Does the ASF and ASX have the same shell as the ZSX? I wonder what it is about this new shell that is causing so many fitment complaints? Is the nozzle too short?



ASF has a very similar notch to the ZS3, ZSR anda few others.




Antdroid's photo:




Like the ZS3 and ZSR, if I don't insert the ASX and then rotate it to the proper position then I can experience some discomfort near the Tringular Fossa. Slight rotation is definitely necessary.










PhonoPhi said:


> *I finally got my ideal KZ*
> and I did it myself
> 
> Before
> ...





Slater said:


> Ah, you beat me to it! I was actual working on the same mod for my CA16. I already did one nozzle, but haven’t had time to to the other one.
> 
> It was actually accidental that I found out the nozzles are interchangeable. I had taken apart the CA16 to see how it’s internals are set up, and I was like hmmm I wonder if the wide nozzle fits and sure enough boom





PhonoPhi said:


> Took wider nozzles from A10. The nozzles are detachable (just by hand, pliers are bad...) Narrow nozzles are 1/3-1/4 mm more narrow, so either the openings need to be widened or the fit to be forced to fit wider nozzles into ASX. CA16 plastic seems to be softer, so it may work better. I am reasonably happy with CA16 having ZAX.
> Then ASX with wider nozzles is AS16++ to my ears



I'll definitely pull the nozzles from my A10 as well. Anything I should be especially mindful of to avoid damaging either set of earphones?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Alpha Whale said:


> Absolutely agree about KZ's established history regarding DD in-ears but I wonder if the DD era at KZ was headed by the original owners "K" & "Z". Didn't they sell the company around the time the ZST or hybrids began or shortly thereafter or am I mistaken?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The fit is not perfect.
The detachment is by hand,,no heating, using a piece of cloth to protect fingers and still to have a good grip. Quite strong force is needed. Pulling with side motions worked 4 times (the first time using pliers the nozzle get deformed).
If one to use ZSN, the BA in the nozzle get destroyed, and the nozzle is slightly assymetric due to the BA fit (that was my second oopsies, could use another A10 instead...)
The main problem is that A10/ZSN nozzles are slightly wider. I tried to use needle files to extend the openings in ASX, but it did not work well for me given the limited tools, skills and patience . The forces fit did work but microcracks developed, so it is not a perfect procedure. Also ASX nozzles do not fit A10 (and also it looks like blocking the BA channels, so this part of the project was aborted/postponed). 

I hope Master @Slater can chime in - he is much more experienced and capable, and great with the instructions(!) It was his CA16 dissection that inspired my trials (and the fact that I could not be teased any longer by almost perfect but not quite to my ears sound of ASX).


----------



## alamnp

Alpha Whale said:


> Absolutely agree about KZ's established history regarding DD in-ears but I wonder if the DD era at KZ was headed by the original owners "K" & "Z". Didn't they sell the company around the time the ZST or hybrids began or shortly thereafter or am I mistaken?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


can you pull it from ZS10 Pro? Thinking replacing CA16 with ZS10 Pro nozzle


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> The fit is not perfect.
> The detachment is by hand,,no heating, using a piece of cloth to protect fingers and still to have a good grip. Quite strong force is needed. Pulling with side motions worked 4 times (the first time using pliers the nozzle get deformed).
> If one to use ZSN, the BA in the nozzle get destroyed, and the nozzle is slightly assymetric due to the BA fit (that was my second oopsies, could use another A10 instead...)
> The main problem is that A10/ZSN nozzles are slightly wider. I tried to use needle files to extend the openings in ASX, but it did not work well for me given the limited tools, skills and patience . The forces fit did work but microcracks developed, so it is not a perfect procedure. Also ASX nozzles do not fit A10 (and also it looks like blocking the BA channels, so this part of the project was aborted/postponed).
> ...



can you send me the link for Slater dissection? I am also interested in replacing CCA CA16 nozzle.


----------



## Alpha Whale

Slater said:


> Ah, you beat me to it! I was actual working on the same mod for my CA16. I already did one nozzle, but haven’t had time to to the other one.
> 
> I was like hmmm I wonder if the wide nozzle fits and sure enough boom



I may use the A10 or ZSN Pro nozzles unless you found another
 model that fits perfectly. 

What steps worked best for you in the transplant process?

Thanks in advance. 




PhonoPhi said:


> The fit is not perfect.
> The detachment is by hand,,no heating, using a piece of cloth to protect fingers and still to have a good grip. Quite strong force is needed. Pulling with side motions worked 4 times (the first time using pliers the nozzle get deformed).
> If one to use ZSN, the BA in the nozzle get destroyed, and the nozzle is slightly assymetric due to the BA fit (that was my second oopsies, could use another A10 instead...)
> The main problem is that A10/ZSN nozzles are slightly wider. I tried to use needle files to extend the openings in ASX, but it did not work well for me given the limited tools, skills and patience . The forces fit did work but microcracks developed, so it is not a perfect procedure. Also ASX nozzles do not fit A10 (and also it looks like blocking the BA channels, so this part of the project was aborted/postponed).
> ...



Thanks for the feedback. 

Does your modified ASX compare well with the AS12 or does the AS12 surpass it?
If your modified ASX is anywhere near equal to the AS12 then I will proceed. 
If, however, your modified ASX is a notch or two below the AS12 then I may just proceed with caution because I do like the ASF current sound signature. A sidegrade sound signature may or may not be worth the effort. I suppose it depends. If I can get clean and full bass with smooth mids and a gentle treble then the modification could really be quite special. If the soundstage opens up and treble extension is well tamed then it would definitely be worth the effort. I don't mind that the ASF has gently rolled off treble but slightly more might just be perfect. 

Hope you don't mind me picking your brain but how would you describe the *modified* sound signature?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 30, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> I may use the A10 or ZSN Pro nozzles unless you found another
> model that fits perfectly.
> 
> What steps worked best for you in the transplant process?
> ...


A10 and ZSN (ZSN pro) are the same in size. ZSNs have BAs in nozzles, so they will be effectively destroyed in the process.
In a retrospective the change can be done in 2 minutes - detach (using quite a bit of force) and reattach (it snaps to fit, no glue).
Then again, the wider nozzles have a slightly larger diameter, so the forced fit causes microcracks (in my case it did not propagate outside, but the risk is there) or the opening needs to be extended slightly by 1/4 of a mm or so, which would take more time to do properly.

AS12 still have the best BA bass for me, those two BAs do the great job; but then AS12 with the bass&mid emphasis are quite different from AS16 and A10 with their 3-4K empasis/overemphasis.

The modified ASX are so AS16++ or ZAX with the ample BA bass and a bit better treble to my ears.
The sound is nicely open and transparent. The bass is more balanced by the treble, no more V-shape impression or the feeling of the dip in the low mids.

It is all I could possibly dream that KZ could have done with ASX.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> I hope Master @Slater can chime in - he is much more experienced and capable, and great with the instructions(!)



I think you summed it up great 

The only thing I’d add is to adhere the nozzle with a *very* thin layer of epoxy to create an airtight seal.


----------



## Slater (Nov 30, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> What steps worked best for you in the transplant process?



I used nozzles from my spare parts bin, not from a KZ. Since I build earphones, I have hundreds of various spare parts. I just went through all of my different parts until I found a set that fits.

I know that’s not really going to help anyone else in this process, unless you have your own earphone spare parts inventory (which is doubtful). But as @PhonoPhi pointed out, you can tweak the shell a bit to fit other nozzles.


----------



## Slater

alamnp said:


> can you send me the link for Slater dissection?



There’s no link. Dissecting the CA16 was just something I did on my own.  The CA16 was generously donated by another HeadFier, with the intent that I take it apart and evaluate if any filters were present and what mods might be possible. But there was no link posted or anything. I simply reported my findings directly to the individual.


----------



## alamnp

Slater said:


> There’s no link. Dissecting the CA16 was just something I did on my own.  The CA16 was generously donated by another HeadFier, with the intent that I take it apart and evaluate if any filters were present and what mods might be possible. But there was no link posted or anything. I simply reported my findings directly to the individual.




ughhhh, no success, I tried with all of my might with towel... won't budge... I would probably use a heat gun later... but will it destroy the drivers?


----------



## Slater (Dec 1, 2020)

alamnp said:


> ughhhh, no success, I tried with all of my might with towel... won't budge... I would probably use a heat gun later... but will it destroy the drivers?



I would definitely not use a heat gun.

I guess some are easier to remove than others. Mine just popped right off. Could be that some are glued stronger than others, some fit tighter than others, etc.

Back when I did the mmcx mod to the EDR1, I had to use 2 pairs to get 1 good set. The reason was the shell of the first one I tried just popped right apart no problem. I assumed the 2nd one would be just as easy, but the shell was attached like iron. I ended up destroying the 2nd shell trying to get it to separate. So I tried another fresh pair of EDR1, and was able to get 1 apart. So those were the 2 that I ended up converting to mmcx. But I had a useless destroyed one to get to that point. And that was a $3 earphone.

The point is that if you force it, you risk breaking something. The CA16 is just cheap plastic after all. It’s $50+ if you mess it up.

I guess if it won’t come off no matter what, it’s the universe telling you that it’s just not meant to be


----------



## unifutomaki

I never have any luck with this sort of thing and I have two right thumbs. If you're like me, I'd just wait till KZ reverses course on this dumb nozzle design


----------



## wopossum (Dec 1, 2020)

Slater said:


> I would definitely recommend the ZAX then, and I think you’d be quite happy with them.





unifutomaki said:


> Agreed, you can't go wrong with the ZAX.




Thanks for your suggestions but I said that the max price point is 45$, ZAX is 60$. It's not too much but I made a decision not to spend a single penny more than 45$, because in the audio world it's hard to tame yourself in the right moment(and also I don't need anything too fancy right now). So, what could be a little bit worse than ZAX? ZSX Terminator? Now that I checked some reviews, people are telling that their sound is relatively close except for the mids section(of course, on ZAX they're better). ZS10 pro?


----------



## unifutomaki

wopossum said:


> Thanks for your suggestions but I said that the max price point is 45$, ZAX is 60$. It's not too much but I made a decision not to spend a single penny more than 45$, because in the audio world it's hard to tame yourself in the right moment(and also I don't need anything too fancy right now). So, what could be a little bit worse than ZAX? ZSX Terminator? Now that I checked some reviews, people are telling that their sound is relatively close except for the mids section(of course, on ZAX they're better). ZS10 pro?



I know you said that the maximum you're willing to spend is $45, but there's little point in passing up on something that is significantly more refined and will deliver a fantastic performance  for the price on more types of music than anything that came before it for the sake of $15. If I had to get rid of my entire collection save one IEM tomorrow, the ZAX would be the one I'd keep. Otherwise, you'll be looking for an upgrade before long, and then all of a sudden you'd have spent $105 instead of $60.


----------



## astermk (Dec 1, 2020)

wopossum said:


> Thanks for your suggestions but I said that the max price point is 45$, ZAX is 60$. It's not too much but I made a decision not to spend a single penny more than 45$, because in the audio world it's hard to tame yourself in the right moment(and also I don't need anything too fancy right now). So, what could be a little bit worse than ZAX? ZSX Terminator? Now that I checked some reviews, people are telling that their sound is relatively close except for the mids section(of course, on ZAX they're better). ZS10 pro?


ZAX is $50 all across AliExpress right now. The ZAX is a better version of the ZS10 Pro, in that they graph almost identically and share the same shell and dimensions but the ZAX has better detail retrieval, better instrument separation and wider soundstage. I had the ZS10 Pro for a year, loved it, have the ZAX now, love it even more. I'd go with the ZAX. ZS10 Pro is still a good budget option, though. The best thing about them is the shell is small enough to fit comfortably in many ears, while the ZSX and some other KZ models have a bigger shell with "ergonomic" protrusions that dig into many people's ears. The "ergonomic" KZ shell fits me personally very well on models like the CCA CA16, but it's a riskier buy.


----------



## wopossum

astermk said:


> ZAX is $50 all across AliExpress right now. The ZAX is a better version of the ZS10 Pro, in that they graph almost identically and share the same shell and dimensions but the ZAX has better detail retrieval, better instrument separation and wider soundstage. I had the ZS10 Pro for a year, loved it, have the ZAX now, love it even more. I'd go with the ZAX. ZS10 Pro is still a good budget option, though. The best thing about them is the shell is small enough to fit comfortably in many ears, while the ZSX and some other KZ models have a bigger shell with "ergonomic" protrusions that dig into many people's ears. The "ergonomic" KZ shell fits me personally very well on models like the CCA CA16, but it's a riskier buy.


Thanks. But just one more question to you guys: ZAX & ZS10 Pro are more V-shaped than neutral, like it's a classic KZ thing, right? It's just kind of difficult for me to understand these graphs (I'm not joking) 
As I understand, a slight curve in the low section & some peaks on the highs = is that a V shape?


----------



## astermk

wopossum said:


> Thanks. But just one more question to you guys: ZAX & ZS10 Pro are more V-shaped than neutral, like it's a classic KZ thing, right? It's just kind of difficult for me to understand these graphs (I'm not joking)
> As I understand, a slight curve in the low section & some peaks on the highs = is that a V shape?


Yes, that's V-shape since it looks like a V. Less extreme versions of such a graph may also be called U-shape. The ZAX is described by some as U-shape and I'd agree, there's some elevation in the bass and upper treble but it doesn't overpower the mids much.


----------



## wopossum

astermk said:


> Yes, that's V-shape since it looks like a V. Less extreme versions of such a graph may also be called U-shape. The ZAX is described by some as U-shape and I'd agree, there's some elevation in the bass and upper treble but it doesn't overpower the mids much.


Thank you so much. Now I can at least understand these graphs & what they'd probably sound like.


----------



## alamnp

wopossum said:


> Thanks for your suggestions but I said that the max price point is 45$, ZAX is 60$. It's not too much but I made a decision not to spend a single penny more than 45$, because in the audio world it's hard to tame yourself in the right moment(and also I don't need anything too fancy right now). So, what could be a little bit worse than ZAX? ZSX Terminator? Now that I checked some reviews, people are telling that their sound is relatively close except for the mids section(of course, on ZAX they're better). ZS10 pro?



at your price point, it seems KBear Lark will make you alot happier.


----------



## digitalazer

Just got my NM2+ and been enjoying them, but I still have lingering memories of my beloved ZAX. My last memory of them was an intense, spiritual journey with a sour gummy octopus edible and Universe by Laraaji. The ZAXs are unreal with it's clarity, enveloping bass+energy, and engrossing soundstage.


----------



## courierdriver

digitalazer said:


> Just got my NM2+ and been enjoying them, but I still have lingering memories of my beloved ZAX. My last memory of them was an intense, spiritual journey with a sour gummy octopus edible and Universe by Laraaji. The ZAXs are unreal with it's clarity, enveloping bass+energy, and engrossing soundstage.



You make me want to buy the ZAX now for a couple of reasons. First, your "sour Octopus edible" reference. Pretty sure I know where your coming from🤟! Secondly, I like how you describe the bass energy and soundstage. I've got the ZS10 PRO and have been looking for an upgrade. Don't get me wrong; my ZS10 PRO is still my favorite of all the iems I own. But, I'm still looking for just little bit of extra detail and soundstage, without sacrificing bass. Thanks for your post.


----------



## digitalazer

courierdriver said:


> You make me want to buy the ZAX now for a couple of reasons. First, your "sour Octopus edible" reference. Pretty sure I know where your coming from🤟! Secondly, I like how you describe the bass energy and soundstage. I've got the ZS10 PRO and have been looking for an upgrade. Don't get me wrong; my ZS10 PRO is still my favorite of all the iems I own. But, I'm still looking for just little bit of extra detail and soundstage, without sacrificing bass. Thanks for your post.



Right on! Definitely a much needed "trip" these days!

I can't compare it to ZS10 Pro but from I've reading here and outside reviews that a ZAX would be more of a sidegrade but since you're looking for "just a bit" enhancement, the ZAX might do the trick. According to this review vs ZS10 Pro, enhanced mids for sure and slightly better soundstage, while preserving that "fun factor" like you have in the ZS10 Pro. 

Compared to the NM2+, it is less analytical (less micro details) but more warm and better "fun factor". It also takes a hit in soundstage (it is still wide nonetheless). It also weighs less and you would barely notice them. 

In any case, I would change the stock tips for a wider bore to bring out the details, with a material that's tight around the nozzle to deepen the bass with control. These tips have worked well for me with the ZAX. 

If you do get it, let us know your thoughts!


----------



## courierdriver

digitalazer said:


> Right on! Definitely a much needed "trip" these days!
> 
> I can't compare it to ZS10 Pro but from I've reading here and outside reviews that a ZAX would be more of a sidegrade but since you're looking for "just a bit" enhancement, the ZAX might do the trick. According to this review vs ZS10 Pro, enhanced mids for sure and slightly better soundstage, while preserving that "fun factor" like you have in the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> ...


Will do! Waiting for a sale after Christmas and I'm gonna jump on the ZAX. Thanks for the tip on tips (lol!) but I have found my perfect fitting tips for my ears and use them on all my iems. They are Newbee foams large size and work great with everything I use. Seal is key to getting great sound, and these provide that for me.


----------



## wopossum

alamnp said:


> at your price point, it seems KBear Lark will make you alot happier.



Well, yes. I heard people mentioning these, but it looks like they just share the same principle of V-shaped sound design. I'd like to try something more well balanced, with the mids especially.


----------



## RCracer777

wopossum said:


> Well, yes. I heard people mentioning these, but it looks like they just share the same principle of V-shaped sound design. I'd like to try something more well balanced, with the mids especially.


The Lark actually has a neutral sound signature with a slight emphasis on the upper mids. It's most likely the most balanced sound you'll find under $45.


----------



## RCracer777

astermk said:


> Yes, that's V-shape since it looks like a V. Less extreme versions of such a graph may also be called U-shape.


I always thought U-shape was a more extreme version of V-shape, mostly due to the fact that the letter U has a steeper sides than the letter V. Makes more sense when a letter is used to show the shape of the sound signature. But I guess I stand corrected


----------



## tmb821

So I just discovered the as10... I know, late to the party. I absolutely love them, from the fit to the sound. I’m wondering if there are any others that have a similar fit and sound? Previous favorite was the zs10 pro’s. Not that I need a upgrade, just curious.


----------



## PhonoPhi

tmb821 said:


> So I just discovered the as10... I know, late to the party. I absolutely love them, from the fit to the sound. I’m wondering if there are any others that have a similar fit and sound? Previous favorite was the zs10 pro’s. Not that I need a upgrade, just curious.


AS10 are really unique and perfectly stand on their own now.

If you like warmer with more bass - AS12 can be a next step.

If brighter and cheerful (not as ZS10 pro but close) - AS16.

Both AS12 and AS16 have the same form factor as AS10, only with a metal (zinc alloy) plate, so they are heavier and fit a bit tighter.

The premium version of AS10 was BA10 (the same drivers, more resonant). If you dare to fit this brick-shape into your listening cavities - the sound can reward you  Many swear by their  BA10s.


----------



## alamnp (Dec 2, 2020)

wopossum said:


> Well, yes. I heard people mentioning these, but it looks like they just share the same principle of V-shaped sound design. I'd like to try something more well balanced, with the mids especially.



the best neutral sound for your budget prolly KBear Lark (Amazon still selling the 4K variant), the next one is CCA CA16 which you could get for $50 on sale.

CCA CA16 though you have to fork in another $10 for spinfit tips CP800 or CP100, your choice.

You definitely don't want ZAX if you are looking for neutral sounding, more mid forward IEM. ZAX is V shaped alright. More bass and more controlled treble compared to ZS10 Pro.


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 are really unique and perfectly stand on their own now.
> 
> If you like warmer with more bass - AS12 can be a next step.
> 
> ...



I am interested in the newest CCA with sound channel... this might satisfy some people who likes AS10 and BA10 for an upgrade.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

wopossum said:


> Well, yes. I heard people mentioning these, but it looks like they just share the same principle of V-shaped sound design. I'd like to try something more well balanced, with the mids especially.



If you want something really balanced with good timbre then try BQEYZ KB100. It's a little old model but I'm yet to hear an IEM under $50 which is so neutral yet joyful. Tin T2/T2+ and CCA C10 are also good options in that price range. T2 has connector issues so factor that in before purchasing.


----------



## alamnp

Dani157 said:


> If you want something really balanced with good timbre then try BQEYZ KB100. It's a little old model but I'm yet to hear an IEM under $50 which is so neutral yet joyful. Tin T2/T2+ and CCA C10 are also good options in that price range. T2 has connector issues so factor that in before purchasing.



if neutral and fun that you are looking for, get CA16 with Spinfit CP800, it will keep you occupied for the meantime. CCA CA16 with Spinfit CP800 is most neutral sounding, fun, and MOST Holographic IEM sub $70.

It's fun, I have not tried ASX/ASF, since I am preoccupied with CA16 played on my BTR5 DAC... Treble not so rolled off with Spinfit CP800 and mid are more forward and detailed.


----------



## BubisUK

alamnp said:


> if neutral and fun that you are looking for, get CA16 with Spinfit CP800, it will keep you occupied for the meantime. CCA CA16 with Spinfit CP800 is most neutral sounding, fun, and MOST Holographic IEM sub $70.
> 
> It's fun, I have not tried ASX/ASF, since I am preoccupied with CA16 played on my BTR5 DAC... Treble not so rolled off with Spinfit CP800 and mid are more forward and detailed.


I have both cca ca16 and kz asx and prefer the later for details and overall sound. I would recomend T2+ over ca16 also, T2+ is amazing iem for the price


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 2, 2020)

Dani157 said:


> If you want something really balanced with good timbre then try BQEYZ KB100. It's a little old model but I'm yet to hear an IEM under $50 which is so neutral yet joyful.



+1 on the KB100




PhonoPhi said:


> If you like warmer with more bass - AS12 can be a next step.
> 
> If brighter and cheerful (not as ZS10 pro but close) - AS16.
> 
> Many swear by their  BA10s.


@

To my ears the AS12 is like a more refined ZS10 Pro. The sound signature is very similar but it's as if they took the best parts of the ZS10 Pro (air and overall presentation) and the ZSN Pro (more present midrange) and just refined things.







The AS12 bass is much more clean than either the ZS10 Pro or ZSN Pro.
The AS12 midrange is slightly more forward than the ZS10 Pro but not as forward as the ZSN Pro.
The AS12 treble is similar to the ZS10 Pro but much more refined than the ZSN Pro. The cymbal crashes are much more natural on the AS12. The timbre of the cymbal crashes on the N Pro are unnatural and fatigue sets in quickly.






The AS12 is just a much better in-ear. One should stick with the 10 Pro if a more visceral low end is preferred but the definition and texture of the AS12 bass is difficult to surpass.

p.s. - Using wide bore silicone eartips I compared the 10 Pro, N Pro and 3 sets of AS12 earphones. The source was a Cowon Plenue 2.

Also, not a big fan the the ZSN Pro. The unrefined cymbals and slightly shouty upper midrange make them a no go for me. To my ears, the AS12 is the proper choice for unassailable bass with a slightly forward midrange and great treble extension.

I think the BA10 and the AS12 are both well worth the money I paid. No regrets.


----------



## Podster

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 are really unique and perfectly stand on their own now.
> 
> If you like warmer with more bass - AS12 can be a next step.
> 
> ...



I concur and if you can get a good fit and seal with the BA10 your all BA iem search may be good to go for a long time, my remedy was a little nozzle extension with tip sleeve material as I have shallow ear surface but deep canals  Had to do the same thing with my DM6's and HQ12's But for me it was a great and inexpensive solution





That Tripowin 16 core also compliments the BA10 I must say


----------



## alamnp

BubisUK said:


> I have both cca ca16 and kz asx and prefer the later for details and overall sound. I would recomend T2+ over ca16 also, T2+ is amazing iem for the price



different beast altogether 

CCA CA16 with CP800 (ONLY WITH THIS TIP) has wide and tall sound stage that none can beat at the moment sub $100 IMO.
T2+ is just a fun monitor with lots of bass and V shaped, similar to ZS10 Pro.

I am always amazed listening to CCA CA16 to music like Wagakki Band, or old records such as Duran Duran... fully immersed, felt like in the middle of the band listening to all of them.

Tin T2+ Plus felt that you are in the 10-16th row of the concert.

CCA CA16 though with stock tip... just mehhh


----------



## alamnp

I wonder not much hysteria for the new CCA CS16? what do you think guys?


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> I concur and if you can get a good fit and seal with the BA10 your all BA iem search may be good to go for a long time, my remedy was a little nozzle extension with tip sleeve material as I have shallow ear surface but deep canals  Had to do the same thing with my DM6's and HQ12's But for me it was a great and inexpensive solution
> 
> 
> 
> That Tripowin 16 core also compliments the BA10 I must say


I didn't have to do anything with my BA10s except change the cable to a 16 core TRN silver plated. The best all BA set I have.


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> I wonder not much hysteria for the new CCA CS16? what do you think guys?


Nah, more interested in the three DD aka KZ DQ6.


----------



## wopossum

alamnp said:


> the best neutral sound for your budget prolly KBear Lark (Amazon still selling the 4K variant), the next one is CCA CA16 which you could get for $50 on sale.
> 
> CCA CA16 though you have to fork in another $10 for spinfit tips CP800 or CP100, your choice.
> 
> You definitely don't want ZAX if you are looking for neutral sounding, more mid forward IEM. ZAX is V shaped alright. More bass and more controlled treble compared to ZS10 Pro.




Speaking of CCA - I must say, they are probably good, but aren't they just only BA's? I have a feeling that I wouldn't like them just because of that. I never tried only BA setup, though. 
Would be good to check them out before ordering but I don't have such an ability in my town. For now, I'm completely confused, because there are so many suggestions. 

KZ ZAX, KZ ZSX(as a slightly worse version of ZAX), TRN v90/v90s, TRN VX, KBEar Lark, Jade Audio EA3, CCA C16/C12. 
They all have different setups and yet they have something similar to them(especially looking at the graphs with a few exceptions). 
Probably the best option would be to order all of them and then sell each one that I wouldn't like. But I find this to be kind of odd. With this chi-fi, it's difficult to choose from so many models on the market.

or I just need a few days to think


----------



## PhonoPhi

wopossum said:


> Speaking of CCA - I must say, they are probably good, but aren't they just only BA's? I have a feeling that I wouldn't like them just because of that. I never tried only BA setup, though.
> Would be good to check them out before ordering but I don't have such an ability in my town. For now, I'm completely confused, because there are so many suggestions.
> 
> KZ ZAX, KZ ZSX(as a slightly worse version of ZAX), TRN v90/v90s, TRN VX, KBEar Lark, Jade Audio EA3, CCA C16/C12.
> ...


Out of your list (and given your hesitation with all-BAs) - just get ZAX. TRN is yet to change its image of quality control gamble/lacking.
ZAX will be a very good IEM to appreciate and then either enjoy it forever or go from there down the infamous rabbit hole 

Quite a bit of opinions above, about "the best IEM".
My sentiments now - we are all different (ear canals, sound preferences, etc.), and the recordings are different, so for some one IEM may be preferable, for others - different ones.

So I definitely do not believe in one "perfect one" - it is a journey not destination.

Right now I very much enjoy my modified ASX, it is amazing how more open it can sound. I also got S...r MT300 - very interesting "tape-like" sound, really like it as well, so I am reexploring a lot of music with them


----------



## purplesun

wopossum said:


> Speaking of CCA - I must say, they are probably good, but aren't they just only BA's? I have a feeling that I wouldn't like them just because of that. I never tried only BA setup, though.
> Would be good to check them out before ordering but I don't have such an ability in my town. For now, I'm completely confused, because there are so many suggestions.
> 
> KZ ZAX, KZ ZSX(as a slightly worse version of ZAX), TRN v90/v90s, TRN VX, KBEar Lark, Jade Audio EA3, CCA C16/C12.
> ...


If you unsure of your listening preference - get the cheapest one that everyone raves about as a starting reference. With that reference, you will then have a better idea which subsequent iems to purchase.


----------



## saldsald (Dec 2, 2020)

wopossum said:


> Hello! I'd like to get some advice! I used the KZ ZS5 for almost 3 years now, they were absolutely fine for me, but I want to change them for something better, the max price point is 45$.
> 
> I want a hybrid(not just DD or BA) setup, with a maximum possible amount of details while still providing a good balance between all the frequencies(slight V-shaped divergence is ok).
> Bass and sub-bass on a level of previously mentioned ZS5 are fine, some sibilants too, but just quality&details should be better than the level of ZS5.
> ...



Within your budget price range I have the ZAX, ZS10Pro, EDX, V90s, CA16, BQEYZ K2, BQEYZ BQ3

I personally recommend getting the BQEYZ K2 and the EDX together, 27.5+7=34.5 you still have 10 to spare.

The ZAX has good overall sound signature but i personally think the top end to be very artificial. The ZS10PRO is far from natural and has poor detail, CA16 is really warm, not a detail monster either, V90s has deep V tuning, BQEYZ BQ3 is quite hard to drive however better and more expensive than the K2.

The K2 is really balanced and on sale now, with enough detail and never harsh sounding. EDX is cheap and very fun and good sounding not just for the price.


----------



## baskingshark

alamnp said:


> I wonder not much hysteria for the new CCA CS16? what do you think guys?



I think after folks here got burnt by the KZ ASX reviews, it might be wiser to wait for initial reviews to filter out. CCA CS16 isn't that cheap to do a blind purchase and everytime KZ tries to go higher end from their usual budget fare, the reviews have been rather polarizing to say the least.

Also, I think most folks don't want to be used as a beta tester/guinea pig, as in all likelihood, KZ/CCA may come out with a sidegrade/pro version of the CCA CS16 in the next few weeks! But if anyone wants to take one for the team to try it, you have our greatest respect!!!


----------



## BubisUK

alamnp said:


> different beast altogether
> 
> CCA CA16 with CP800 (ONLY WITH THIS TIP) has wide and tall sound stage that none can beat at the moment sub $100 IMO.
> T2+ is just a fun monitor with lots of bass and V shaped, similar to ZS10 Pro.
> ...


I use both ca16 and asx with spinfits cp100 and asx wins in all aspects against ca16, also T2+ is less bassy then both of them, I would say T2+ is really very close to neutral tuned iem, with slightly elevated bass  But that is to my ears and of I had to recomend I would say get ASX and T2+ because these 2 are staying in my collection.


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> Out of your list (and given your hesitation with all-BAs) - just get ZAX. TRN is yet to change its image of quality control gamble/lacking.
> ZAX will be a very good IEM to appreciate and then either enjoy it forever or go from there down the infamous rabbit hole
> 
> Quite a bit of opinions above, about "the best IEM".
> ...



yeah each one of the sounds a bit different... also when you use DAC, more difference will come up. Some will sounds totally different with more power.


----------



## alamnp

baskingshark said:


> I think after folks here got burnt by the KZ ASX reviews, it might be wiser to wait for initial reviews to filter out. CCA CS16 isn't that cheap to do a blind purchase and everytime KZ tries to go higher end from their usual budget fare, the reviews have been rather polarizing to say the least.
> 
> Also, I think most folks don't want to be used as a beta tester/guinea pig, as in all likelihood, KZ/CCA may come out with a sidegrade/pro version of the CCA CS16 in the next few weeks! But if anyone wants to take one for the team to try it, you have our greatest respect!!!



Agreed with that, I am going to save up this coming months to get LZ A7


----------



## alamnp

BubisUK said:


> I use both ca16 and asx with spinfits cp100 and asx wins in all aspects against ca16, also T2+ is less bassy then both of them, I would say T2+ is really very close to neutral tuned iem, with slightly elevated bass  But that is to my ears and of I had to recomend I would say get ASX and T2+ because these 2 are staying in my collection.



Yeah, I would get ASX, but I chickened out due to competing reviews from both sides, $100 but not cheap, especially for ear monitor that half of the audience don't like


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> I think after folks here got burnt by the KZ ASX reviews, it might be wiser to wait for initial reviews to filter out. CCA CS16 isn't that cheap to do a blind purchase and everytime KZ tries to go higher end from their usual budget fare, the reviews have been rather polarizing to say the least.
> 
> Also, I think most folks don't want to be used as a beta tester/guinea pig, as in all likelihood, KZ/CCA may come out with a sidegrade/pro version of the CCA CS16 in the next few weeks! But if anyone wants to take one for the team to try it, you have our greatest respect!!!



Flippin' eck if anyone will blind buy the CS16 after the KZ saga


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> Flippin' eck if anyone will blind buy the CS16 after the KZ saga



Haha agreed. We might have some brave souls though that may be interested in driver count?



Though if any CHIFI manufacturer is reading, it is actually very simple in CHIFI land to generate blind buy sales, just follow these steps:

1) Put the IEM in an anime girl drawing packaging.
2) Give it an english name, something like Sunfall or Stardust. Just don't name it some lame or confusing number/alphabet soup (like YBF-ISS0******* or CS**).
3) +/- You can perhaps claim some beryllium driver thingy.
4) +/- Provide some store generated graphs that look neutralish or diffuse field instead of the usual dime a dozen V shaped kindergarten squiggles.

You can thereafter even double the asking price and it will still sell like hotcakes.


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> Haha agreed. We might have some brave souls though that may be interested in driver count?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But it won't have OPPOTTY and DRIAMS!!


----------



## baskingshark

voicemaster said:


> But it won't have OPPOTTY and DRIAMS!!



OPPOTY and DRIAMS on the packaging got binned in the latest BLON BL01 release! I know they say "NEVER GIVE UP", but it seems like they did GIVE UP on this packaging.


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> OPPOTY and DRIAMS on the packaging got binned in the latest BLON BL01 release! I know they say "NEVER GIVE UP", but it seems like they did GIVE UP on this packaging.



They also lost their BELIEF and ANNOTATIONS


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> 1) Put the IEM in an anime girl drawing packaging.


----------



## BubisUK

unifutomaki said:


> Flippin' eck if anyone will blind buy the CS16 after the KZ saga


I did 😃 🙈


----------



## unifutomaki

BubisUK said:


> I did 😃 🙈



Well thank you for your service to Head-fi 😂🤣😁


----------



## baskingshark

BubisUK said:


> I did 😃 🙈


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

astermk said:


> ZAX is $50 all across AliExpress right now. The ZAX is a better version of the ZS10 Pro, in that they graph almost identically and share the same shell and dimensions but the ZAX has better detail retrieval, better instrument separation and wider soundstage. I had the ZS10 Pro for a year, loved it, have the ZAX now, love it even more. I'd go with the ZAX. ZS10 Pro is still a good budget option, though. The best thing about them is the shell is small enough to fit comfortably in many ears, while the ZSX and some other KZ models have a bigger shell with "ergonomic" protrusions that dig into many people's ears. The "ergonomic" KZ shell fits me personally very well on models like the CCA CA16, but it's a riskier buy.



Thanks for making this comparison. One of the reasons I skipped over the ZSX was that I was unsure about fit. The ZS-10 Pro fits fine, but I read about some issues with ZSX shell.

However, the large CA16 housing fits fine, in fact I get great sound from it. Your comment suggests to me that the ZSX and especially ZAX will be okay. [I don't need the ZSX _and_ ZAX, right? _Oh, who am I kidding, I'm going to buy them both._]


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

alamnp said:


> different beast altogether
> 
> CCA CA16 with CP800 (ONLY WITH THIS TIP) has wide and tall sound stage that none can beat at the moment sub $100 IMO.
> T2+ is just a fun monitor with lots of bass and V shaped, similar to ZS10 Pro.
> ...



I was putting CP800 on the CA16, but it was so tight that I started thinking the grille might be getting a little knocked out-of-alignment. So mine are still wearing stock tips, which can give a pretty 'holographic' sound, although yes, treble-scooped.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Haha agreed. We might have some brave souls though that may be interested in driver count?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A couple of more points build them pretty and start a mini hype train out of nowhere on Chinese SNS.


----------



## alamnp

BubisUK said:


> I did 😃 🙈



NICE, will patiently awaits your impression on CS16


----------



## alamnp

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I was putting CP800 on the CA16, but it was so tight that I started thinking the grille might be getting a little knocked out-of-alignment. So mine are still wearing stock tips, which can give a pretty 'holographic' sound, although yes, treble-scooped.



Oh man, that suck, you just have to work it from the side of the grill, trust me, it's okay, it won't get knocked out... worst comes to worst refund CP800 and get CP100, the only difference is that the mid will be more forward instead of detailed.


----------



## regancipher (Dec 3, 2020)

paulwasabii said:


> I love the Scarbir reviews also but I will offer my two cents on a couple things mentioned which I had mentioned in my review.  The mids are forward and you need to have some volume restraint as it will go shouty as described.  My problem was that it sounds really good and you will want to turn it up, but then you will hit a female vocal and I would notch the volume back down.  I definitely listened at a lower volume than my KZ Z1.  The white noise is noticeable on the built-in announcements, but my music tends to not be quiet enough to hear it.
> 
> The bass is interesting.  With BA only, I tend to think more about missing it, does this track sound tinny or truncated because there is not enough extension.  I think KZ went out of their way to add more than enough bass to add warmth to the mids.  It doesn't have that dry/lean/thin BA sound.  My first thought wasn't that it was not rumbling in my ear, but there is just a bit too much in the mids which is good on one hand, but not if you are looking for a very clean BA sound.
> 
> I probably enjoyed the whole BA family SA08, ASF, ASX more than most so take that into consideration.




The sibilance and mids apart, I'm not sure I agree with too much of Scarbir's review. It sounds like the words of someone who has spent too long listening to stuff with tws. I find the SA08 very inconsistent, but brilliant at their best. With silicone tips it was way too trebly and sibilance was awful on female vocals. Changed tips and different story. I couldn't use them with the silicone tips supplied - they sounded awful. Had to switch to spiral dots then foam. All of a sudden they started to sound like what I was expecting - like a slightly more analytical Z1. 

It was one of the few tests where I had to consult my own produced tracks to check against a reference point I knew very well. Drums are clean by TWS standards, kick especially. The mid bass is very strong and subbass well balanced. Then, I played a few flacs, Only Love Can Break Your Heart sounded bad - high mids were struggling and vocals moving backwards and forwards. Then Caribou - way better. Some MP3's sounded enhanced, some sounded exposed. The buds were very loud though. Could only listen at about 55% vol tops. I had expected to hear a faint white noise that you sometimes get on BA buds but my hearing must be buggered. I would even dispute some of the claims dismissing the clarity. I head someone drop something while listening to Andre Rieu live!

I played around 30 minutes worth of music and battery was at 40% so make of that what you will - same old KZ I guess.

Other than the terrible connectivity (it drops frequently, even glitches, as expected with KZ) and ludicrously chunky form factor (I've got a big head and even for me they're very heavy) I've got no complaints.


----------



## alamnp

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Thanks for making this comparison. One of the reasons I skipped over the ZSX was that I was unsure about fit. The ZS-10 Pro fits fine, but I read about some issues with ZSX shell.
> 
> However, the large CA16 housing fits fine, in fact I get great sound from it. Your comment suggests to me that the ZSX and especially ZAX will be okay. [I don't need the ZSX _and_ ZAX, right? _Oh, who am I kidding, I'm going to buy them both._]



you already have TFZ King Pro... not sure if you want to buy KZ ZAX, it's a stepdown...


----------



## seanwee

alamnp said:


> you already have TFZ King Pro... not sure if you want to buy KZ ZAX, it's a stepdown...


I don't have the ZAX but the ZSX beats the king pro for sure.


----------



## alamnp (Dec 3, 2020)

seanwee said:


> I don't have the ZAX but the ZSX beats the king pro for sure.



https://penonaudio.com/tfz-king-pro.html

This one here???
Are you sure? Ehmmm you probably played it on your iphone not on DAC.

KZ is famously good sounding even on a cheap Iphone.
Some other IEMs are not...

If you have not used DAC, get E1DA or Fiio or Qudelix and use it with your TFZ King pro, you will be surprised how the sounds changes with more power.

I have an old TFZ Tequila which I paired with BTR5, sounds heavenly. And also if you just bought it recently, TFZ has a long burn in period, my Tequila needs 50 hours to optimize its sound profile.

but once the burn in period sets in, your graphene driver will shine. TFZ’s graphene driver is fun to drive with little distortion if any... super fun.

if you need ZAX, let’s trade, I take your TFZ King Pro over my ZAX.


----------



## voicemaster

Again price can't be an indicator for better or not the IEM will sound. My ZSX sounds better than my 1964 V8 that cost $999 at the time which is like 20x the price of the ZSX.


----------



## alamnp (Dec 3, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> Again price can't be an indicator for better or not the IEM will sound. My ZSX sounds better than my 1964 V8 that cost $999 at the time which is like 20x the price of the ZSX.



lol, you are comparing flinstone dinosaur to 2020 Audi bro 😂😂😂

but some IEMs sounded like a tin can without proper amps.

not all IEMs like KZ, easy to drive.

for example Tri I3 without amps.


----------



## chinmie

alamnp said:


> you already have TFZ King Pro... not sure if you want to buy KZ ZAX, it's a stepdown...





seanwee said:


> I don't have the ZAX but the ZSX beats the king pro for sure.



i also much prefer the ZSX and ZS10 Pro than the King Pro. heck, i even prefer the older King than the King Pro
the only thing the TFZs got that's better than the KZs is the better and more solid shell


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 3, 2020)

alamnp said:


> lol, you are comparing flinstone dinosaur to 2020 Audi bro 😂😂😂
> 
> but some IEMs sounded like a tin can without proper amps.
> 
> ...


An old porsche 911 still beat 2020 civic.
Comparing KZ to AUDI makes AUDI a "cheap" car lol. Like a freaking $40k cheap car that is!!


----------



## PhonoPhi

alamnp said:


> lol, you are comparing flinstone dinosaur to 2020 Audi bro 😂😂😂
> 
> but some IEMs sounded like a tin can without proper amps.
> 
> ...


Not all KZ are "easy to drive" or at least they all benefit from the resolution, if not power, of better amping/DACs/DAPs.

I remember I was quite happy with ZSN with my little DAP. When I accidentally listened using my phone (S9 back then that really sucks soundwise with music, at least given its price...), the difference was excruciatingly obvious...


----------



## alamnp (Dec 3, 2020)

chinmie said:


> i also much prefer the ZSX and ZS10 Pro than the King Pro. heck, i even prefer the older King than the King Pro
> the only thing the TFZs got that's better than the KZs is the better and more solid shell



hmmm I tried TFZ King Pro before returning it, since TFZ Tequila is cheaper. Bass is tight, a bit thin mid, easily EQ-ed, and sparkly treble, with the DAC easily EQ-ed and made better compared to ZSX or ZS10 Pro.

ZS10 Pro and ZSX have limitation of DD size.

You have to remember TFZ King Pro has 55ohm Impedance, you need E1DA DAC to make it sounds like the winner. Needs at least 140 mW to sound good. You could get by with regular BTR5 or Qudelix, with 2.5mm balanced cable.

I know ZSX or ZS10 Pro is cheaper than buying a high power Amps, but if you want to enjoy more and later on venture to mid tier IEM... get yourself a good DAC.

TFZ made a mistake by making TFZ King Pro as entry level mid Chifi pricing...

But like I said, I buy you ZSX and trade me your TFZ King Pro... lol


----------



## paulwasabii

regancipher said:


> The sibilance and mids apart, I'm not sure I agree with too much of Scarbir's review. It sounds like the words of someone who has spent too long listening to stuff with tws. I find the SA08 very inconsistent, but brilliant at their best. With silicone tips it was way too trebly and sibilance was awful on female vocals. Changed tips and different story. I couldn't use them with the silicone tips supplied - they sounded awful. Had to switch to spiral dots then foam. All of a sudden they started to sound like what I was expecting - like a slightly more analytical Z1.
> 
> It was one of the few tests where I had to consult my own produced tracks to check against a reference point I knew very well. Drums are clean by TWS standards, kick especially. The mid bass is very strong and subbass well balanced. Then, I played a few flacs, Only Love Can Break Your Heart sounded bad - high mids were struggling and vocals moving backwards and forwards. Then Caribou - way better. Some MP3's sounded enhanced, some sounded exposed. The buds were very loud though. Could only listen at about 55% vol tops. I had expected to hear a faint white noise that you sometimes get on BA buds but my hearing must be buggered. I would even dispute some of the claims dismissing the clarity. I head someone drop something while listening to Andre Rieu live!
> 
> ...



Thank you, it is nice to know there is another person with the SA08.  The Z1 was a small club, but a few fans on here. The SA08 club is sparse at the moment.  I switch between the Z1 and SA08 in hopes of prolonging my Z1 battery a bit longer.


----------



## BubisUK

alamnp said:


> NICE, will patiently awaits your impression on CS16


I doubt I will get it


----------



## chinmie

alamnp said:


> hmmm I tried TFZ King Pro before returning it, since TFZ Tequila is cheaper. Bass is tight, a bit thin mid, easily EQ-ed, and sparkly treble, with the DAC easily EQ-ed and made better compared to ZSX or ZS10 Pro.
> 
> ZS10 Pro and ZSX have limitation of DD size.
> 
> ...



i just happen to wrote a post about amps here if you're interested:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blon-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.916702/post-16015599

i sold my King Pro long ago, same like my original King. fast forward to today, i would rather buy the King again if I'm feeling nostalgic, but i don't miss the King Pro at all


----------



## seanwee

alamnp said:


> https://penonaudio.com/tfz-king-pro.html
> 
> This one here???
> Are you sure? Ehmmm you probably played it on your iphone not on DAC.
> ...


iPhone? I thought they ditched the headphone jack years ago XD

And no, I will always use and always have used daps for demoing head gear.


----------



## alamnp

chinmie said:


> i just happen to wrote a post about amps here if you're interested:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blon-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.916702/post-16015599
> 
> i sold my King Pro long ago, same like my original King. fast forward to today, i would rather buy the King again if I'm feeling nostalgic, but i don't miss the King Pro at all



lol I am hoping you would trade me the king pro for new zsx lolz

it’s a monster with correct DAC


----------



## wopossum (Dec 4, 2020)

alamnp said:


> But like I said, I buy you ZSX and trade me your TFZ King Pro... lol



Honestly, looking at your discussion, I think it has something to do with people having a difference in ear stricture. Because, like, maybe for him ZSX is better simply because of how it sits in his ear, as I have read, it really matters a lot in IEMs. Anyway.



alamnp said:


> you need E1DA DAC to make it sounds like the winner. Needs at least 140 mW to sound good



Since you already started about DACs, I wasn't sure if this is a correct thread to discuss these, I'd like to ask something. What should I get if I'm going to buy ZAX? I'm only somewhat familiar with Trasam Q1(completely entry-level but looks ok to me), Meizu HiFi Dac Pro and IBasso DC03(thanks to the multiple reviews).


----------



## Viber

Just noticed this with the seller of the scam 10$ ZS10p:
(Also, notice the negs piling on)


----------



## unifutomaki

wopossum said:


> Honestly, looking at your discussion, I think it has something to do with people having a difference in ear stricture. Because, like, maybe for him ZSX is better simply because of how it sits in his ear, as I have read, it really matters a lot in IEMs. Anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Since you already started about DACs, I wasn't sure if this is a correct thread to discuss these, I'd like to ask something. What should I get if I'm going to buy ZAX? I'm only somewhat familiar with Trasam Q1(completely entry-level but looks ok to me), Meizu HiFi Dac Pro and IBasso DC03(thanks to the multiple reviews).



You don't need anything. The ZAX is the easiest-to-drive IEM in my possession currently and it sounds great out of my Motorola G8 Power.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

wopossum said:


> Honestly, looking at your discussion, I think it has something to do with people having a difference in ear stricture. Because, like, maybe for him ZSX is better simply because of how it sits in his ear, as I have read, it really matters a lot in IEMs. Anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Since you already started about DACs, I wasn't sure if this is a correct thread to discuss these, I'd like to ask something. What should I get if I'm going to buy ZAX? I'm only somewhat familiar with Trasam Q1(completely entry-level but looks ok to me), Meizu HiFi Dac Pro and IBasso DC03(thanks to the multiple reviews).



If at all you want to invest in some support gear then try Walnut F2, dirt cheap and a fine amp. DACs in your smartphone are more than enough to drive most of the budget IEMs especially KZs. You'd rather invest in an amp if at all you find your smartphone/DAP inadequate.


----------



## IEMbiker

voicemaster said:


> How do you detached the nozzle? Just pull it out straight up? Does it have any glue that need to be heated? Can I use ZSN's nozzle?
> I am fine with the narrow nozzle, but changing the nozzle will 100% change the sound so I am just curious and I have many KZ to use as donor.



Mode ASX with ZSN nozzle...the older the earphone the easier to remove the nozzle. I remove the ZSN within seconds and the ASX takes bout 5 minutes. 
For ZSN, remove the nozzle filter and use a needle to loosen the BA, and remove the nozzle without destroying the BA.
Rock the nozzle side by side to take it out from the body. ZSN nozzle is not round. The place for BA is flat. 
I file the ZSN nozzle to fit it in ASX body.


----------



## Slater

IEMbiker said:


> Mode ASX with ZSN nozzle...the older the earphone the easier to remove the nozzle. I remove the ZSN within seconds and the ASX takes bout 5 minutes.
> For ZSN, remove the nozzle filter and use a needle to loosen the BA, and remove the nozzle without destroying the BA.
> Rock the nozzle side by side to take it out from the body. ZSN nozzle is not round. The place for BA is flat.
> I file the ZSN nozzle to fit it in ASX body.



Great info! Thanks a bunch for sharing your tips


----------



## alamnp (Dec 4, 2020)

Since you already started about DACs, I wasn't sure if this is a correct thread to discuss these, I'd like to ask something. What should I get if I'm going to buy ZAX? I'm only somewhat familiar with Trasam Q1(completely entry-level but looks ok to me), Meizu HiFi Dac Pro and IBasso DC03(thanks to the multiple reviews).
[/QUOTE]

ZAX you don't need DAC, works really well with just an Iphone... it's actually pretty loud and detailed.

KZ lineups are just great, because they can operate well with any low powered source. They have low impedance and higher sensitivity in average.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Okay, just saw the discussion about ZAX/ZSX vs. King Pro.

I don't really use them against each other. I keep the King Pro at home, and the ZS-10 Pro for mobile.

Here's why:

*King Pro better for home*

It does sound a little better through a DAC/AMP
It is nice and shiny, don't want to wreck it
Cable ends are rumored to become loose in housings moved around too much
Better for detailed music that you need quiet in order to appreciate

*ZS-10 Pro better for commuting*

Can run more than fine from my mobile devices, requires very little power
Is okay-looking but relatively expendable
Very comfortable, so I don't need to spend lot fitting it
KZ are known to be robust, which is better for mobile use
Better for loud, exciting music, which is easier to play while commuting

So my ZS-10 Pro lives in my jacket. While the King Pro is beside my DAC/AMP. [A s$&ty Fiio K1 USB DAC/AMP that is surprisingly good for Chi-Fi.]

Many would argue that the SQ of the King Pro is better than the ZS-10 Pro/ZSX/ZAX. For me, the King Pro isn't at it's best on my mobile devices, so it stays home.

I think the descriptions of the King Pro's SQ in recent posts have been fairly accurate.

The takeaway for me is that I need the E1DA to truly enjoy my King Pro. Thanks for the tip, I'll probably need it for the BL-01 too.


----------



## cappuchino

Has anyone tried using reversed starline tips and vent and/or nozzle tape mod on KZ EDX? How did it respond?


----------



## Pelicampe

regancipher said:


> The sibilance and mids apart, I'm not sure I agree with too much of Scarbir's review. It sounds like the words of someone who has spent too long listening to stuff with tws. I find the SA08 very inconsistent, but brilliant at their best. With silicone tips it was way too trebly and sibilance was awful on female vocals. Changed tips and different story. I couldn't use them with the silicone tips supplied - they sounded awful. Had to switch to spiral dots then foam. All of a sudden they started to sound like what I was expecting - like a slightly more analytical Z1.
> 
> It was one of the few tests where I had to consult my own produced tracks to check against a reference point I knew very well. Drums are clean by TWS standards, kick especially. The mid bass is very strong and subbass well balanced. Then, I played a few flacs, Only Love Can Break Your Heart sounded bad - high mids were struggling and vocals moving backwards and forwards. Then Caribou - way better. Some MP3's sounded enhanced, some sounded exposed. The buds were very loud though. Could only listen at about 55% vol tops. I had expected to hear a faint white noise that you sometimes get on BA buds but my hearing must be buggered. I would even dispute some of the claims dismissing the clarity. I head someone drop something while listening to Andre Rieu live!
> 
> ...



Scarbir's reviews on SA08 make me buy a.... FIIL T1Pro !
It's seem have a more secur neutral sound compare to what KZ can invent....
And for the BT part, I'm outstanded by what the FIIL BT can do and, what KZ .... try to do whith far less fonctionnalitys...

Anyway I really love my S2,  once mid bass and trebles bumps tamed they are really funny TWS.


----------



## alamnp

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Okay, just saw the discussion about ZAX/ZSX vs. King Pro.
> 
> I don't really use them against each other. I keep the King Pro at home, and the ZS-10 Pro for mobile.
> 
> ...



Damn, exactly on target... TFZ did make a mistake on that one, producing IEM with 55OHM impedance, probably due to the size of the driver that they need that higher impedance.

They need to define themselves not as cheap entry to IEM. Any starter getting TFZ King Pro will be disappointed.

I don't understand that they brand it as "King" then put different extension to it. To me that's very stupid and misleading.

They should really make another brand category for it such as "Emperor", so distinguish between quality improvement and the need for more power.


----------



## Dave Drums

CA16 nobody bothers to change the tip, hence the sound profile sucks so much because of poor isolation and leakage
[/QUOTE]

you do get a "stinker" in the chain that no amount of fiddling can fix the sound.
[/QUOTE]

I think you've inspired me to get some foam tips for my ZSX and C12 - I've looked at comply and newbees - do you know the best bore size to buy so they fit well on these 2 models? 
I normally run a medium eartip size which is easy - I just can't fathom which bore size to get!


----------



## unifutomaki

Dave Drums said:


> I think you've inspired me to get some foam tips for my ZSX and C12 - I've looked at comply and newbees - do you know the best bore size to buy so they fit well on these 2 models?
> I normally run a medium eartip size which is easy - I just can't fathom which bore size to get!



You'll want to get the T400 or equivalent tips.


----------



## Dave Drums

unifutomaki said:


> You'll want to get the T400 or equivalent tips.


Nice! Thank you - so that's the T400 comply yeah - I can pick any style from the range and just make sure it's T400 size right


----------



## alamnp

Dave Drums said:


> CA16 nobody bothers to change the tip, hence the sound profile sucks so much because of poor isolation and leakage



you do get a "stinker" in the chain that no amount of fiddling can fix the sound.
[/QUOTE]

I think you've inspired me to get some foam tips for my ZSX and C12 - I've looked at comply and newbees - do you know the best bore size to buy so they fit well on these 2 models?
I normally run a medium eartip size which is easy - I just can't fathom which bore size to get!
[/QUOTE]

for KZ, when you go to comply website, on the right upper hand corner they have a link "Find tips for your earphone" click that one.

If not, get this one:

https://www.complyfoam.com/products/t-1more-driver/

All KZs (Except ASX/ASF) have nozzle that's similar to 1More Triple/Quad Driver

There is really NO DIFFERENCE in SmartCore, Isolation, Comfort, Professional series when you use it, you just have to find the right size, mine is medium,although some other foam tips I used are Large. Comply more dense and will make your ear uncomfortable if you did not get a correct size.


----------



## alamnp

Dave Drums said:


> Nice! Thank you - so that's the T400 comply yeah - I can pick any style from the range and just make sure it's T400 size right



actually KZ now is on the list of Comply, and it's not 400 series


----------



## unifutomaki

T400 and T500 basically have the same bore size. You'll see AE vendors refer to them interchangeably all the time:


----------



## regancipher

Pelicampe said:


> Scarbir's reviews on SA08 make me buy a.... FIIL T1Pro !
> It's seem have a more secur neutral sound compare to what KZ can invent....
> And for the BT part, I'm outstanded by what the FIIL BT can do and, what KZ .... try to do whith far less fonctionnalitys...
> 
> Anyway I really love my S2,  once mid bass and trebles bumps tamed they are really funny TWS.



The FIIL T1 Pro are my best earbuds of 2020 for the money. 

They just tick so many boxes for such little dollar, it's astonishing. 

A few things annoy me. They advertise how to wear them completely wrong. They are not meant to be forced into your ears like the T1XS. I talk about it on my Instagram and I'm the review. FIIL even contacted me thanking me for it and are in constant contact asking questions about other stuff, but they haven't changed anything, I guess because they will rely on Earfun to push the product outside China. 

The other thing is less of an issue but is something I uncovered after a lot of digging. They don't have full mpeg-4 AAC lc implementation. Instead they just support mpeg-2. Nothing major but you can hear the over compression at times. There's little difference between the codecs so I'm not sure what their motivation is, but they have basically fudged their AAC and sbc implementations to circumvent the need to pay for the licensing to use the Qualcomm codec whilst still delivering outstanding latency. The result is non-audiophile quality sound that will not be noticeable to the mass market but is definitely there, but again, at the price this is totally understandable and acceptable. 

Aptx is not the be all and end all, but it is clear if you scrutinise it for long enough that FIIL have cut a corner- and I did because I don't give >90% scores out lightly. 

Even despite all that they are great buds. The mic is good, ergonomics are great, sound is acceptable and although the sibilance you can hear on the T1XS hasn't been eradicated altogether, at sub $60 what you get is insane. The bt5.2 is real - the range is miles better than all of my 5.0. Wireless charging, EQ heaven, better ANC than most reviews give them credit for and great controls. Best budget earbuds of H1 2020 by miles. 

The KZ are the Mario Balotelli of my earbud collection. They are absolutely flawed in every way. The shape is absurd, its like they took a moulded IEM and didn't have enough room for the tech so just added a stick of lego on. The connectivity is a joke, the tracker on my car key interfered with them over less than 5m and they repeatedly drop signal. The charge case is like they took the Tronsmart Apollo Bold case and made the one failing - the gap at the top that sometimes prevented charging - even bigger. The battery life is also laughably bad. 

I don't know why I expected anything any different, KZ are not even know in the IEM market for any kind of consistency and even their flagship IEM's sound crappy to me compared to Tinhifi, BLON, Kbear and Moondrop. But occasionally they do release something I don't have to sell on ebay for a loss and the sa08 for all their flaws are a keeper. 

Firstly, you couldn't use them as dailies. You would smash them. But if you need to listen to music and really enjoy it, or even if you're a producer and need to listen to something you've thrown together on the go in order to work out what you're gonna do next when you're not sat on a train, you will hear things on the sa08 you simply don't on other tws. 

I thing I said it elsewhere but I heard an orchestra member drop something on the floor on a YouTube music recording! I've never even heard that before! Songs sound magic at times with them, I'll elaborate more when I finish my review. 

My best friend is a recording artist and before lock down he would always send me stuff to scrutinise before moving any further with it, I can do that reliably with the sa08 without messing around transferring files and using wires. I can't do it with any other earbuds. 

Like Mario, if you put them in your team every week you're likely to tear your hair out, but if you accept them for what they are then they're great additions to the portfolio in the tws market.


----------



## Lucozade 1

Really enjoying the asx, this is my favourite all ba iem so far, very enjoyable sound tuning without any sibilance and very comfortable to wear,looking forward to future kz releases


----------



## unifutomaki

Lucozade 1 said:


> Really enjoying the asx, this is my favourite all ba iem so far, very enjoyable sound tuning without any sibilance and very comfortable to wear,looking forward to future kz releases



Nice DAP 😎


----------



## wopossum

I'm wondering what kind of ear tips should I get for ZAX to boost the mids slightly. I've seen you guys mentioning Spinfit (or something like that) all the time with 100, 145 and 800, but I'm not sure what would be a correct choice and which one does what to the sound signature.


----------



## IEMbiker

I love playing this song with the ASX


----------



## RyuzakiL26

wopossum said:


> I'm wondering what kind of ear tips should I get for ZAX to boost the mids slightly. I've seen you guys mentioning Spinfit (or something like that) all the time with 100, 145 and 800, but I'm not sure what would be a correct choice and which one does what to the sound signature.



I'm having a blast with my ZAX using a generic foam tips from TRN (I think the only item they don't have QA issues with 😆). Mids have been improved while keeping the lows and highs tighter.


----------



## voicemaster

wopossum said:


> I'm wondering what kind of ear tips should I get for ZAX to boost the mids slightly. I've seen you guys mentioning Spinfit (or something like that) all the time with 100, 145 and 800, but I'm not sure what would be a correct choice and which one does what to the sound signature.


Try AZLA Xelastec. Just make sure you get a smaller size than what you normally use.


----------



## Pelicampe

regancipher said:


> The FIIL T1 Pro are my best earbuds of 2020 for the money.
> 
> They just tick so many boxes for such little dollar, it's astonishing.
> 
> ...



Thx for your great opinion !  

You could almost make me regret buying T1 Pro instead of SA08! My first goal with them is sound quality, and I really doubted SA08 would make the game ...
So let's see, I will use T1Pro in APTX, hope they will be to my liking. I'll make a quick return here...


----------



## Pelicampe

Received my EDX one week after command on Aliex'sCCA official store. Cost me 2.7€ shipped ! (11.11 sales)

So for the price it's a real bargain. I used them for one week at work. Tamed mid-low bump and 2k~5k peaks and I was really enjoyed
with them. If not, sound is harsh and bumpy (usual KZ's sound).

Isolation is poor, soundstage is mid-centric but global quality is the same like other KZ's models. Details are not the best par but they do the trick...

At this price is a good buy if you want a good backup IEM. 

For folks who looking for some Frequency Response on KZ EDX : 

_measurements with my UMIK-1 and a silicone tube. Curves are not calibrated but good for comparison. Same insertion deepth, same volume setting, same tips (neutral) 
I think results are not releveable under 40hz and above 5-6Khz due to my improvised equipment

 REW psychoacoustic smoothed
* (EDX in green vs BLON BL03 )*



_


----------



## IEMusic

I finally got my ASF.  I very much wanted to like it, and have been trying to get myself to focus on it’s strengths, but for me, the overall tonality is just a whole bunch of wrong, that my brain just cannot adjust to.  There are a few wisps of treble here and there, but it is just way too dark, and not like the Final E3000 is dark.   With the ASF, a huge chunk of frequencies just seem to be missing.  ”Veiled” would be a massive understatement.  So, for me, it’s a fail.  FWIW, I also don’t really like the E3000 (I like it less the more I’ve listened to it.)

The few positives include:
1. The bass is the most potent of any all-BA IEM that I’ve heard thus far, with good decay, making seem quite DD-like (a really good seal is necessary though).   The thickness of sound and some mid bass muddiness, however, ruins some of the detail and texture of the bass.  The bass is still better than a lot of poorly tuned DDs though, and is still quite fast.
2. The isolation is top notch, as I had hoped.   With full foam ear tips, they isolate mid to upper frequencies to approx. the level of Etymotic IEMs (multi-flange tips seem to isolate the whole frequency spectrum better/more evenly, whereas foam tips don’t seem to isolate bass frequencies as well).
3. For people who are very sensitive to treble, and really want a dark sounding IEM to use as a stage monitor, where accuracy is not critical, but the more prominent midrange could be beneficial, the ASF is a great budget option.  This is a very small niche, but one that the ASF can fill really well.  Bass, kick drum, drums in general, guitars, vocals all come through loud and clear (though w/o overtones and harmonics), so it would work well as a stage monitor, while perhaps sparing some of your high-frequency hearing if running them loud.
4. I like the faceplate a lot.  It’s quite attractive, as is the IEM as a whole (except for the hideous white internal structure).  The shape, however, is bizarre.   They fit me fine due to me having large ears, but a lot of the ergonomics don’t make sense to me.


----------



## IEMusic




----------



## voicemaster

Pelicampe said:


> Thx for your great opinion !
> 
> You could almost make me regret buying T1 Pro instead of SA08! My first goal with them is sound quality, and I really doubted SA08 would make the game ...
> So let's see, I will use T1Pro in APTX, hope they will be to my liking. I'll make a quick return here...


The T1 pro has an app with 10 bands EQ. I have yet to see a TWS that offers that kind of EQ.


----------



## MacAttack7

IEMusic said:


> I finally got my ASF.  I very much wanted to like it, and have been trying to get myself to focus on it’s strengths, but for me, the overall tonality is just a whole bunch of wrong, that my brain just cannot adjust to.  There are a few wisps of treble here and there, but it is just way too dark, and not like the Final E3000 is dark.   With the ASF, a huge chunk of frequencies just seem to be missing.  ”Veiled” would be a massive understatement.  So, for me, it’s a fail.  FWIW, I also don’t really like the E3000 (I like it less the more I’ve listened to it.)


Can you give an example of a song that sounds veiled and has frequencies missing? And maybe point out what parts of the song to listen to so I can hear these issues? 
I've heard this type of review enough times to believe it, but I'd like to hear it for myself, and I just don't have enough experience evaluating earphones.
I keep going back & forth with my other earphones, and they definitely sound different, but I'm just not sure what to listen for to evaluate them.


----------



## Pelicampe

@voicemaster yes I saw that, great feature T1 pro is well equiped. (. I already use PowerEQ on my android device who have 10 bands)

@IEMusic are you thinking if ASF get an appropriate EQ'ing, it can be save ?


----------



## voicemaster

Pelicampe said:


> @voicemaster yes I saw that, great feature T1 pro is well equiped. (. I already use PowerEQ on my android device who have 10 bands)
> 
> @IEMusic are you thinking if ASF get an appropriate EQ'ing, it can be save ?


The problem with using a third party app for tweaking a TWS is that when you switch devices like from your phone to PC, the EQ setting is not applied to the earbuds. With Fiil app, the EQ will stay on the earbuds so even when you switch devices, the EQ will still applied to the earbuds.


----------



## baskingshark

Seems we have the first impressions of someone who bought the CCA CS16: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4911351632238442/


----------



## alamnp

MacAttack7 said:


> Can you give an example of a song that sounds veiled and has frequencies missing? And maybe point out what parts of the song to listen to so I can hear these issues?
> I've heard this type of review enough times to believe it, but I'd like to hear it for myself, and I just don't have enough experience evaluating earphones.
> I keep going back & forth with my other earphones, and they definitely sound different, but I'm just not sure what to listen for to evaluate them.



do you like your monitor though?
ASX/ASF will be a love/hate relationship. I am getting NM2+ instead of ASX/ASF. Price different not that much.


----------



## xanlamin

Hey guys, what is the best KZ to get for 12.12? Any suggestions will be appreciated!


----------



## unifutomaki

xanlamin said:


> Hey guys, what is the best KZ to get for 12.12? Any suggestions will be appreciated!



CCA CST is an excellent beater, costs less than 2 dinners


----------



## Mouseman

voicemaster said:


> The problem with using a third party app for tweaking a TWS is that when you switch devices like from your phone to PC, the EQ setting is not applied to the earbuds. With Fiil app, the EQ will stay on the earbuds so even when you switch devices, the EQ will still applied to the earbuds.


I wish more manufacturers would add this feature to keep the sound consistent across devices. The L2 Pros also have it (8 band) and I hope that eventually the Apollo Bolds will get a customizable EQ at some point, though I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Slater

xanlamin said:


> Hey guys, what is the best KZ to get for 12.12? Any suggestions will be appreciated!



It depends on what you’re after.

What source do you plan on using?

Where do you plan on using it (home, gym, office, commute, sleeping)?

What genres do you listen to?

How would you classify your ears? Normal/average, narrow canals, oddly shaped, etc?

Will you be using for gaming and or movies as well as music?


----------



## alamnp (Dec 7, 2020)

xanlamin said:


> Hey guys, what is the best KZ to get for 12.12? Any suggestions will be appreciated!



first time IEMs user, stick with ZAX, if you are not a newbie... then... a lot of options depend on what your sound profile preference...

You could PM Voicemaster, he knows everything about KZ and can give you valuable input so that you don't spend your money for something that you don't want.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Seems we have the first impressions of someone who bought the CCA CS16: https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4911351632238442/



CCA house sound nowadays is something of a love child between KZ sound and what CCA started out with (smooth balanced and fun). It seems they're suffering from identity crisis.


----------



## alamnp

Dani157 said:


> CCA house sound nowadays is something of a love child between KZ sound and what CCA started out with (smooth balanced and fun). It seems they're suffering from identity crisis.



I like CCA casing better than KZ though... but sound wise... they're very similar


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

alamnp said:


> I like CCA casing better than KZ though... but sound wise... they're very similar



Exactly the problem. CCA started out with their uniqueness over KZ but nowadays it's more or less a KZ with CCA branding. It's like they're competing for the same slice of the pie despite having same parent company.


----------



## voicemaster

Dani157 said:


> Exactly the problem. CCA started out with their uniqueness over KZ but nowadays it's more or less a KZ with CCA branding. It's like they're competing for the same slice of the pie despite having same parent company.


Yes cca started out being the more "audiophile" tuning than the KZ "fun" tuning. As of late tho, they starting to get into more "fun" sound and KZ going for more balance sound. Its like they switch role or something.


----------



## voicemaster

xanlamin said:


> Hey guys, what is the best KZ to get for 12.12? Any suggestions will be appreciated!


The ZAX is a very safe recommendation for KZ iem nowadays. If you want under $50, the zs10pro is still a very good choice imho. But, it is worth it to spend the extra $$ to go with the ZAX.


----------



## JazzVinyl

voicemaster said:


> The ZAX is a very safe recommendation for KZ iem nowadays. If you want under $50, the zs10pro is still a very good choice imho. But, it is worth it to spend the extra $$ to go with the ZAX.



+1 on the ZAX
I really love the AS06, too.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 8, 2020)

Spent earlier this evening out and about with the ASF and I have to say that if I didn't know any better I'd swear I was listening to a dynamic driver.  A very clean dynamic driver but a dynamic driver nonetheless. I hope that KZ/CCA will release more models that use these new "s" class BAs.


Listening to Fleetwood Mac's "Dreams" with the ASF and I like the weight, timbre and resolution in Stevie Nick's voice. Mick is on the right keeping time with the high hat in double time and the kick drum sounds accurate but in truth the high hat sounds more natural on the ZS3 (which I believe  the ASF sound signature was modeled after). I believe the reason it sounds more natural on the ZS3 is due to the 8khz rise on the ZS3. The ASF rolls off and cascades lower giving the high hat a slightly truncated presence. It still sounds good but I'm wondering if transplanting the wider nozzle will give the high hat more presence.

Lindsey''s acoustic guitar enters in at 1:14 on the left while his background vocals enter on the right and it sounds good. It's all warm and natural on the ASF. I really like that it doesn't sound like a typical BA set. There is resolution and cleanliness but the ASF manages to simultaneously keep things smooth and warm.

Like the ZS3, the ASF bass is still big but it is much cleaner with so much more control. It's got plenty of presence but it doesn't sound boomy. We'll done for a warm in-ear.




Now that we've seen Vortex Reviews' video about "unit variance and quality control" let's hope that my second set will be as good as my first set.







IEMbiker said:


> Mode ASX with ZSN nozzle...the older the earphone the easier to remove the nozzle. I remove the ZSN within seconds and the ASX takes bout 5 minutes.
> For ZSN, remove the nozzle filter and use a needle to loosen the BA, and remove the nozzle without destroying the BA.
> Rock the nozzle side by side to take it out from the body. ZSN nozzle is not round. The place for BA is flat.
> I file the ZSN nozzle to fit it in ASX body.



Thanks for posting your pic of the modified ASX. Now I know exactly what my modified ASF will look like once it arrives and I swap nozzles. Looking forward to doing a little cosmetic surgery on it. It'll look better and it should breathe a little better.


----------



## digitalazer

alamnp said:


> do you like your monitor though?
> ASX/ASF will be a love/hate relationship. I am getting NM2+ instead of ASX/ASF. Price different not that much.



I returned the ASX and got the NM2+. $30 more for a tremendous night & day difference is a no brainer. You will not be disappointed. I wonder if it'll be on sale on 12.12?


----------



## MacAttack7

digitalazer said:


> I returned the ASX and got the NM2+. $30 more for a tremendous night & day difference is a no brainer. You will not be disappointed. I wonder if it'll be on sale on 12.12?


NM2+ is something like $160 on AliExpress. What do you mean $30 more?
My ASF was $47, and ASX is probably $85 or so.


----------



## alamnp (Dec 8, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> NM2+ is something like $160 on AliExpress. What do you mean $30 more?
> My ASF was $47, and ASX is probably $85 or so.



lol I got 2nd from sale forum here for $115

I am ass broke... now getting mid ChiFi either open box or from others...

I know, I know hygienic issues, but a plain alcohol wipes will take care of it...

they even have VISION EARS Erlkonig for $3500


----------



## voicemaster

You can't compare used item vs new item price. Not everyday you can find the used price unless someone is selling.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> You can't compare used item vs new item price. Not everyday you can find the used price unless someone is selling.



True to that... but you can really venture out, alot of head fiers reselling their not used monitors due to recent upgrade.

And they all in pristine conditions... We head fier really takes good care of our ear monitor.


----------



## digitalazer

MacAttack7 said:


> NM2+ is something like $160 on AliExpress. What do you mean $30 more?
> My ASF was $47, and ASX is probably $85 or so.



Amazon has the ASX for $100 since it was released. The NM2+ was on sale on 11.11 on AliExpress for $130 or less with store coupons (was mentioned on this thread previously). Maybe it'll go on sale again on 12.12.


----------



## courierdriver

alamnp said:


> lol I got 2nd from sale forum here for $115
> 
> I am ass broke... now getting mid ChiFi either open box or from others...
> 
> ...


Way to go, man! Nice find and a good deal. There's nothing wrong with getting a great deal on a gently used, almost new set. That's one of the best and easiest ways to get yourself some higher priced stuff at sometimes half the cost.I've been doing that for years with home audio setups. Good for you for snapping up a bargain.


----------



## courierdriver

alamnp said:


> True to that... but you can really venture out, alot of head fiers reselling their not used monitors due to recent upgrade.
> 
> And they all in pristine conditions... We head fier really takes good care of our ear monitor.


I think that's generally true for many audiophiles. I've bought used gear for years (mostly from brick and mortar audio shops) and I saved a huge amount of money. My final speaker based system that I assembled in the early 2000's would have retailed for just over $10,000 if I purchased all the components brand new. I built my system with a combo of new and gently used gear, for less than half the price. A couple of years ago (when I started getting into iems and personal audio), I scored the Moondrop KanasPro; which at the time retailed for $179 USD; for $145 CDN (about $120 US, at the time). If I had bought that set from Amazon.ca, it would have cost me around $317 CDN. I paid less than half price, for a set that was less than 30 days old (original receipt with purchase date was included along with all the original packaging and accessories). A little over a month ago, I TRADED my unopened box Urbanfun ISSO14 to a guy with a 1 month old set of BLON BL03. All it cost each of us was shipping cost for our iems. I haven't heard back from him if he likes his Urbanfun YBF-ISS014, but I sent him an email to let him know how happy I was with the BLON BL03 he sent me. Honestly; imho, if you want to get a new set of iems (or any other gear) for less, just check the "for sale" forums. There are other sites too (like Audiogon in the US, or Canuckaudiomart in Canada) where people are selling gear that doesn't suit their sound preferences.


----------



## unifutomaki

courierdriver said:


> I think that's generally true for many audiophiles. I've bought used gear for years (mostly from brick and mortar audio shops) and I saved a huge amount of money. My final speaker based system that I assembled in the early 2000's would have retailed for just over $10,000 if I purchased all the components brand new. I built my system with a combo of new and gently used gear, for less than half the price. A couple of years ago (when I started getting into iems and personal audio), I scored the Moondrop KanasPro; which at the time retailed for $179 USD; for $145 CDN (about $120 US, at the time). If I had bought that set from Amazon.ca, it would have cost me around $317 CDN. I paid less than half price, for a set that was less than 30 days old (original receipt with purchase date was included along with all the original packaging and accessories). A little over a month ago, I TRADED my unopened box Urbanfun ISSO14 to a guy with a 1 month old set of BLON BL03. All it cost each of us was shipping cost for our iems. I haven't heard back from him if he likes his Urbanfun YBF-ISS014, but I sent him an email to let him know how happy I was with the BLON BL03 he sent me. Honestly; imho, if you want to get a new set of iems (or any other gear) for less, just check the "for sale" forums. There are other sites too (like Audiogon in the US, or Canuckaudiomart in Canada) where people are selling gear that doesn't suit their sound preferences.



Agreed. Tons of excellent deals to be found on online classifieds as well. Don't ever pay MSRP if you can help it!


----------



## alamnp

courierdriver said:


> I think that's generally true for many audiophiles. I've bought used gear for years (mostly from brick and mortar audio shops) and I saved a huge amount of money. My final speaker based system that I assembled in the early 2000's would have retailed for just over $10,000 if I purchased all the components brand new. I built my system with a combo of new and gently used gear, for less than half the price. A couple of years ago (when I started getting into iems and personal audio), I scored the Moondrop KanasPro; which at the time retailed for $179 USD; for $145 CDN (about $120 US, at the time). If I had bought that set from Amazon.ca, it would have cost me around $317 CDN. I paid less than half price, for a set that was less than 30 days old (original receipt with purchase date was included along with all the original packaging and accessories). A little over a month ago, I TRADED my unopened box Urbanfun ISSO14 to a guy with a 1 month old set of BLON BL03. All it cost each of us was shipping cost for our iems. I haven't heard back from him if he likes his Urbanfun YBF-ISS014, but I sent him an email to let him know how happy I was with the BLON BL03 he sent me. Honestly; imho, if you want to get a new set of iems (or any other gear) for less, just check the "for sale" forums. There are other sites too (like Audiogon in the US, or Canuckaudiomart in Canada) where people are selling gear that doesn't suit their sound preferences.



wow thanks bro, my wallet really thank you... , this hobby is really expensive if you are not smart


----------



## chinmie

courierdriver said:


> I think that's generally true for many audiophiles. I've bought used gear for years (mostly from brick and mortar audio shops) and I saved a huge amount of money. My final speaker based system that I assembled in the early 2000's would have retailed for just over $10,000 if I purchased all the components brand new. I built my system with a combo of new and gently used gear, for less than half the price. A couple of years ago (when I started getting into iems and personal audio), I scored the Moondrop KanasPro; which at the time retailed for $179 USD; for $145 CDN (about $120 US, at the time). If I had bought that set from Amazon.ca, it would have cost me around $317 CDN. I paid less than half price, for a set that was less than 30 days old (original receipt with purchase date was included along with all the original packaging and accessories). A little over a month ago, I TRADED my unopened box Urbanfun ISSO14 to a guy with a 1 month old set of BLON BL03. All it cost each of us was shipping cost for our iems. I haven't heard back from him if he likes his Urbanfun YBF-ISS014, but I sent him an email to let him know how happy I was with the BLON BL03 he sent me. Honestly; imho, if you want to get a new set of iems (or any other gear) for less, just check the "for sale" forums. There are other sites too (like Audiogon in the US, or Canuckaudiomart in Canada) where people are selling gear that doesn't suit their sound preferences.



luckily here in my country the local audio scenes  have a good enthusiasm especially for chifis, so it's easier to buy/sell used audio stuff. i really missed going to audio meets like before this whole virus thing... i hope everything would go back to normal (and hopefully even better than before)


----------



## unifutomaki

chinmie said:


> luckily here in my country the local audio scenes  have a good enthusiasm especially for chifis, so it's easier to buy/sell used audio stuff. i really missed going to audio meets like before this whole virus thing... i hope everything would go back to normal (and hopefully even better than before)



It's usually not too difficult to find a deal on Chi-Fi or established brands here in SG, at least once you get past all the Bluetooth and TWS tat  

I've never been to an audio meet but would love to attend one. Hopefully once we're all vaccinated we'll have those again


----------



## chinmie

unifutomaki said:


> It's usually not too difficult to find a deal on Chi-Fi or established brands here in SG, at least once you get past all the Bluetooth and TWS tat
> 
> I've never been to an audio meet but would love to attend one. Hopefully once we're all vaccinated we'll have those again



funny story: i bought my DAC (centrance bluedac) from a guy in SG, as i stumbled on the sale post on Carrousell SG  . can't find it new because it was discontinued, and i was hunting for it after i heard the sound on an audio meet. 

never met the guy though, i asked him to meet at my brother's house, as he was officed there in SG at the time. so my sister in law (who knew nothing about audio) must do the checking and COD stuff


----------



## baskingshark

courierdriver said:


> I think that's generally true for many audiophiles. I've bought used gear for years (mostly from brick and mortar audio shops) and I saved a huge amount of money. My final speaker based system that I assembled in the early 2000's would have retailed for just over $10,000 if I purchased all the components brand new. I built my system with a combo of new and gently used gear, for less than half the price. A couple of years ago (when I started getting into iems and personal audio), I scored the Moondrop KanasPro; which at the time retailed for $179 USD; for $145 CDN (about $120 US, at the time). If I had bought that set from Amazon.ca, it would have cost me around $317 CDN. I paid less than half price, for a set that was less than 30 days old (original receipt with purchase date was included along with all the original packaging and accessories). A little over a month ago, I TRADED my unopened box Urbanfun ISSO14 to a guy with a 1 month old set of BLON BL03. All it cost each of us was shipping cost for our iems. I haven't heard back from him if he likes his Urbanfun YBF-ISS014, but I sent him an email to let him know how happy I was with the BLON BL03 he sent me. Honestly; imho, if you want to get a new set of iems (or any other gear) for less, just check the "for sale" forums. There are other sites too (like Audiogon in the US, or Canuckaudiomart in Canada) where people are selling gear that doesn't suit their sound preferences.





unifutomaki said:


> Agreed. Tons of excellent deals to be found on online classifieds as well. Don't ever pay MSRP if you can help it!



Yep +1 for getting second hand gear. I managed to snag a few midfi IEMs over the last few years, sometimes at 20 - 50% of the original price at a local classified ads. I also do sell away unused stuff that I bought, at a loss, it's part of the hobby (and also cause the eagle eyed wife will give trouble if my table has too many IEMs, so unfortunately some must go before more can come in). The only exception is I don't sell review units though, I don't think it is ethical, I'll send the expensive loaner ones back to the store, but cheap ones that are even more expensive to send back to china (than their cost), I'll give to charity or friends who need an IEM.

I know people are wary in this covid climate about using used gear, but just disinfect them with alcohol wipes. The only issues I have encountered with 2nd hand gear is in two areas:
1) How to disinfected headphone pads? I have to resort to buying brand new pads. Anybody have any good tips?
2) The need to reshell customs -> quite a pain sometimes, need to send to a reliable place to reshell, which does add to costs.


----------



## courierdriver

alamnp said:


> wow thanks bro, my wallet really thank you... , this hobby is really expensive if you are not smart


You are welcome! And you are correct...this hobby can become very expensive and addictive if you are not careful. It can also make you leave it, like I did for several years. Happily, I've been back for  a couple of years now and I like how many less expensive options are now available. Not only that, but they sound far better than what was available 10 or 15 years ago, and for considerably less money. One thing that I've learned though; is that audiophiles are fickle and always looking for that next best thing that they want to upgrade to. Often, they want to finance their next new purchase by selling the recently purchased stuff that they don't like. That's good news for many of us who can't afford or justify the brand new in box pricetag.


----------



## alamnp

baskingshark said:


> Yep +1 for getting second hand gear. I managed to snag a few midfi IEMs over the last few years, sometimes at 20 - 50% of the original price at a local classified ads. I also do sell away unused stuff that I bought, at a loss, it's part of the hobby (and also cause the eagle eyed wife will give trouble if my table has too many IEMs, so unfortunately some must go before more can come in). The only exception is I don't sell review units though, I don't think it is ethical, I'll send the expensive loaner ones back to the store, but cheap ones that are even more expensive to send back to china (than their cost), I'll give to charity or friends who need an IEM.
> 
> I know people are wary in this covid climate about using used gear, but just disinfect them with alcohol wipes. The only issues I have encountered with 2nd hand gear is in two areas:
> 1) How to disinfected headphone pads? I have to resort to buying brand new pads. Anybody have any good tips?
> 2) The need to reshell customs -> quite a pain sometimes, need to send to a reliable place to reshell, which does add to costs.



lol baskingshark, I think my wife should meet your wife... 

I guess all of us here are pretty similar... eagle eyed wife... make that two lol


----------



## baskingshark

alamnp said:


> lol baskingshark, I think my wife should meet your wife...
> 
> I guess all of us here are pretty similar... eagle eyed wife... make that two lol



I have had to resort to not buying headphones anymore. Cause headphones are too obvious for the eagle eyed wife when the package comes in the mail. And also extremely obvious when using it at home.

IEMs are the way to go. Smaller and more inconspicuous. KZs all look the same to her. Just get black and silver conventional coloured IEMs, don't get some obviously wrong coloured IEMs like the radioactive green BLON BL-05S, that one she also realized it was a new IEM.





I took the Oppoty opportunity to try to disguise the BLON BL-05S (top picture) as the preexisting Moondrop SSR (bottom picture), (since both came in a garish radioactive green colour). Unfortunately, no dice. The Moondrop anime waifu box wasn’t present and it was just a lame mispelling of Oppoty and Belief on the box that let the cat out of the bag.

*Pro tip to get past eagle eyed partners: stick to black or silver coloured IEMs.*


----------



## courierdriver

baskingshark said:


> Yep +1 for getting second hand gear. I managed to snag a few midfi IEMs over the last few years, sometimes at 20 - 50% of the original price at a local classified ads. I also do sell away unused stuff that I bought, at a loss, it's part of the hobby (and also cause the eagle eyed wife will give trouble if my table has too many IEMs, so unfortunately some must go before more can come in). The only exception is I don't sell review units though, I don't think it is ethical, I'll send the expensive loaner ones back to the store, but cheap ones that are even more expensive to send back to china (than their cost), I'll give to charity or friends who need an IEM.
> 
> I know people are wary in this covid climate about using used gear, but just disinfect them with alcohol wipes. The only issues I have encountered with 2nd hand gear is in two areas:
> 1) How to disinfected headphone pads? I have to resort to buying brand new pads. Anybody have any good tips?
> 2) The need to reshell customs -> quite a pain sometimes, need to send to a reliable place to reshell, which does add to costs.


+1 for alcohol wipes! I use them on everything I buy, whether it's new or used. As for headphone pads...sorry, I don't have an answer for that; other than a full replacement. Personally, if I was selling a set of headphones; I'd include a pair of unused replacement pads in unsealed packaging. That way, the buyer could be confident that the headphones had something uncontaminated to use with their new/used purchase.


----------



## baskingshark

It is really getting ridiculous. The CCA CS16 just came out recently (and probably most folks haven't even gotten the CS16 that they ordered), and now a new CCA pokemon has come:






Link here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CIkpHv1p6ec/

Looks to be a 1DD + 6BA set called the CCA CKX. Another silly alphabet soup. Another pokemon. Another beta test unit?


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> It is really getting ridiculous. The CCA CS16 just came out recently (and probably most folks haven't even gotten the CS16 that they ordered), and now a new CCA pokemon has come:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wait a minute, are there in fact two new models coming out (top and bottom pictures look different)? Goodness.


----------



## Nimweth

baskingshark said:


> It is really getting ridiculous. The CCA CS16 just came out recently (and probably most folks haven't even gotten the CS16 that they ordered), and now a new CCA pokemon has come:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think KZ/CCA IEMs are evolving into new Pokemon!


----------



## Nimweth

unifutomaki said:


> Wait a minute, are there in fact two new models coming out (top and bottom pictures look different)? Goodness.


Well spotted. Perhaps the CKX is CCA's version of the ZAX.


----------



## MacAttack7

What does it mean if I hear a lot of static when plugging my ASF's into the port on my cheap Creative desktop speakers?
I don't think there is any hiss when using with my iPod, so it's specific to the speakers.....they have a little headphone port on them.


----------



## gr33nhorn

is the static still there when you plug it directly to the motherboard (or whatever source the creative is hooked to)?

generally for cheap pc speakers, the headphone jack is driven by the speaker amp  circuit - which tends to be have very poor signal/noise


----------



## MacAttack7

gr33nhorn said:


> is the static still there when you plug it directly to the motherboard (or whatever source the creative is hooked to)?
> 
> generally for cheap pc speakers, the headphone jack is driven by the speaker amp  circuit - which tends to be have very poor signal/noise


If I plug directly into my tower the static is gone, so I guess it just has something to do with the speaker amp circuit as you mentioned.
I've seen similar desktop speakers dismantled, and they do not scream quality.


----------



## macky112

Hi all,

I am looking for a budget bass monster IEM, and the closest one I have would be the KZ ZS7.

My question is, has anyone here heard both the ZS7 and the Smabat Black Bat or its clone, Tiandirenhe TD06, to give me a comparison?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## gr33nhorn

in my opinion, the ZS7 is a "extremely bassy" headphone which otherwise meets other audiophile standards for resolution, frequency response etc. 
It is not a head massaging "bass at all costs monster". That in my book is the humble sony XB50. I have purchased every sub $100 IEM that was awarded the Basshead crown for the past several months (ibasso IT00, KZ ZS7, Blon03(!), NiceHCK EP10, Y5000, TFZ no3.... longer list, but should give you some ideas) and not a single one of them (well except maybe the EP10) comes close to the XB50 with or without EQ.


----------



## IEMusic

gr33nhorn said:


> That in my book is the humble sony XB50. I have purchased every sub $100 IEM that was awarded the Basshead crown for the past several months (ibasso IT00, KZ ZS7, Blon03(!), NiceHCK EP10, Y5000, TFZ no3.... longer list, but should give you some ideas) and not a single one of them (well except maybe the EP10) comes close to the XB50 with or without EQ.


This IEM?  https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRXB50AP-Extra-Earbud-Headset/dp/B00JRD13T8


----------



## moondowner

baskingshark said:


> I have had to resort to not buying headphones anymore. Cause headphones are too obvious for the eagle eyed wife when the package comes in the mail. And also extremely obvious when using it at home.
> 
> IEMs are the way to go. Smaller and more inconspicuous. KZs all look the same to her. Just get black and silver conventional coloured IEMs, don't get some obviously wrong coloured IEMs like the radioactive green BLON BL-05S, that one she also realized it was a new IEM.
> 
> ...



Why go through all this when there's an easier solution. Agree for both of you to have an X amount per month to spend on whatever desired. I call it the random budget.

So I spend it on gear from AliExpress, my partner on cosmetics, nail salons and related.

Win - win 😁😁


----------



## MacAttack7

IEMusic said:


> This IEM?  https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRXB50AP-Extra-Earbud-Headset/dp/B00JRD13T8


I like this earphone except for the microphonic cable. 
I don't understand why a company like Sony would ever use a microphonic cable nowadays.


----------



## gr33nhorn

IEMusic said:


> This IEM?  https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRXB50AP-Extra-Earbud-Headset/dp/B00JRD13T8


Yes, that's the one


----------



## alamnp

Got NM2+ today, pre burn in. I might skipped KZs in the next couple of years.

have not heard anything like this before


----------



## Viber

Ebay refunded me for the zs10 scam.
 He didnt answer for a few days, they asked me if i need them to step in and they refunded me in 1 hour.


----------



## IEMusic

What are the main differences between the AS10 and the BA10?  Is the BA10 vented and the AS10 sealed?   How is the isolation on each of them?   Thanks.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 10, 2020)

IEMusic said:


> What are the main differences between the AS10 and the BA10?  Is the BA10 vented and the AS10 sealed?   How is the isolation on each of them?   Thanks.


The drivers should be exactly the same.

BA10 were a luxury version of AS10 The anodized aluminum shell is impeccably crafted (only none of the considerations for the fit).

BA10 are indeed vented, and the vents are real, I've just checked (and was a bit surprised).

BA10 sound a bit less grainy, more crisp, and higher treble is more there compared to AS10.

P. S. Both are good with isolation, AS10 are better.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> The drivers should be exactly the same.
> 
> BA10 were a luxury version of AS10 The anodized aluminum shell is impeccably crafted (only none of the considerations for the fit).
> 
> ...



BA10 has 4-way crossover. AS10 only has 3-way. 4-way crossover equates to better coherency between the multi drivers. It’s also more expensive to design and implement.

That’s one of the primary reasons why the ZS7 sounds so good. It is the only KZ (besides the BA10) that uses a 4-way crossover.


----------



## wopossum

Okay, so stupidest question ever, but whatever. Could you guys share your opinion? Do current models from TRN/KZ/CCA/TFZ (KZ ZAX, CCA CA16, TRN VX, TFZ T2 as an example) sound generally MUCH better than the Apple AirPods and AirPods Pro? I know it's weird to compare wired earphones to wireless but I'm trying to compare something mainstream-ish with what we got with Chi-Fi.


----------



## voicemaster

wopossum said:


> Okay, so stupidest question ever, but whatever. Could you guys share your opinion? Do current models from TRN/KZ/CCA/TFZ (KZ ZAX, CCA CA16, TRN VX, TFZ T2 as an example) sound generally MUCH better than the Apple AirPods and AirPods Pro? I know it's weird to compare wired earphones to wireless but I'm trying to compare something mainstream-ish with what we got with Chi-Fi.


Uh that's a pretty low standard to beat lol. Airpods pro is not bad, but not great either. KZ zax is wayyyy better than those airpods.


----------



## alamnp

wopossum said:


> Okay, so stupidest question ever, but whatever. Could you guys share your opinion? Do current models from TRN/KZ/CCA/TFZ (KZ ZAX, CCA CA16, TRN VX, TFZ T2 as an example) sound generally MUCH better than the Apple AirPods and AirPods Pro? I know it's weird to compare wired earphones to wireless but I'm trying to compare something mainstream-ish with what we got with Chi-Fi.



I agreed with voicemaster , ZAX and CA16 will leave airpod in the dust.

If you have enough money to burn, get the mid-end Chifi - compared to Airpods, it's like heaven and hell..., btw for anything above $100, make sure that you buy DAC or having Iphone 12, otherwise some of them will sound like crap.


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> BA10 has 4-way crossover. AS10 only has 3-way. 4-way crossover equates to better coherency between the multi drivers. It’s also more expensive to design and implement.
> 
> That’s one of the primary reasons why the ZS7 sounds so good. It is the only KZ (besides the BA10) that uses a 4-way crossover.


Yes! BA10 and ZS7 my two favourite KZs.


----------



## Nimweth

Ha ha! I have just dug out my ZS7 and listened to some tracks, and compared them to the new BL-01. ZS7 blows them into the weeds. That bass!


----------



## trumpethead

Viber said:


> Ebay refunded me for the zs10 scam.
> He didnt answer for a few days, they asked me if i need them to step in and they refunded me in 1 hour.


That's Great! I just started the refund process for my two orders. Hope it goes as smoothly as yours.


----------



## alamnp

trumpethead said:


> That's Great! I just started the refund process for my two orders. Hope it goes as smoothly as yours.



I got the refund in 4 hours


----------



## frozenOx

I just got the KZ ZAX. I really enjoy the detail, but the low mids/bass areloose, slow, and almost overpowering on many tracks.

Fortunately they EQ very well. I didn't notice much of a difference with foam tips. Anything else i should check out around 100 or less with more neutral tuning that is detailed? Listen to synth, old prog like Eloy, metal like Rannoch and Obsequiae, ambient jazz and classical. Imaging, detail, non bloomy or bloated bass, good mids...yeah.


----------



## unifutomaki

frozenOx said:


> I just got the KZ ZAX. I really enjoy the detail, but the low mids/bass areloose, slow, and almost overpowering on many tracks.
> 
> Fortunately they EQ very well. I didn't notice much of a difference with foam tips. Anything else i should check out around 100 or less with more neutral tuning that is detailed? Listen to synth, old prog like Eloy, metal like Rannoch and Obsequiae, ambient jazz and classical. Imaging, detail, non bloomy or bloated bass, good mids...yeah.



Moondrop SSP.


----------



## shinewallace

Does anyone with ASX try to use sliver cable for the earphones?
I have tried many combinations.... still think ASX is some kind of noisy
but the silver cable makes it much more clearer and separation IMO
or any other suggestion for the cables? i really want to improve ASX as I think it is not that bad..... still believing ^^"


----------



## alamnp

frozenOx said:


> I just got the KZ ZAX. I really enjoy the detail, but the low mids/bass areloose, slow, and almost overpowering on many tracks.
> 
> Fortunately they EQ very well. I didn't notice much of a difference with foam tips. Anything else i should check out around 100 or less with more neutral tuning that is detailed? Listen to synth, old prog like Eloy, metal like Rannoch and Obsequiae, ambient jazz and classical. Imaging, detail, non bloomy or bloated bass, good mids...yeah.



if you are looking for that, not going to happen with low tiers IEM. Tri Starsea, FIIO FH 3 or FH7, Hidizs Mermaid and recently NFAudio NM2+, those will satisfy your reequirement.

cheapest prolly Hidizs on its website for sale $99, the rest is $129 and up.

so far I got the NM2+, retailed ar @169, superb, comparable to $200+ Chi IEMs and $1000 US made IEMs


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> BA10 has 4-way crossover. AS10 only has 3-way. 4-way crossover equates to better coherency between the multi drivers. It’s also more expensive to design and implement.
> 
> That’s one of the primary reasons why the ZS7 sounds so good. It is the only KZ (besides the BA10) that uses a 4-way crossover.


Another reason is that there are no BAs in the nozzles in the ZS7 and BA10.


----------



## frozenOx

alamnp said:


> if you are looking for that, not going to happen with low tiers IEM. Tri Starsea, FIIO FH 3 or FH7, Hidizs Mermaid and recently NFAudio NM2+, those will satisfy your reequirement.



Well...this is embarassing. I was using my LG G7 to listen to the KZ ZAX and I completely forgot about the stupid impedance detection on it. I usually have something over 50ohms plugged in, never had any decent IEMs (monoprice mp80) before which are way less sensitivie than Sennheiser, Beyers, Hifimans

Put a 3.5mm extension on it to trick it into the line out mode, and voila. Much better. Also checked on some other sources, MOTU M4, JDS Atom, etc. and can confirm they're much better now. Bass is still a bit loose and undefined in those low mids, but it's listenable now without EQ and only really shows its ugly head on certain tracks.

The NM2+ looks like a good shout though. I was really tempted to spend more and go for the Starsea, Shouer Tape Pro, or Starfield. Decided to play it a little safer with the KZ to get an idea of fit and tuning. The MP80s I have are not a good standard to start with. 

I will likely grab something a bit more high end if some good sales come up over Christmas and keep the ZAX as cheaper, fun, don't care if they **** up IEMs. Working from home has drove me to in ears. Clamp from the 58x and even the Beyers just unbearable for more than an hour, or my ears are sweating no matter what. IEMs a little uncomfy at first but then I forget they're in the rest of the day. 

I think maybe the Starsea would pair well with the ZAX since I like classical. Just a little wary of spending a lot of $$$ when you have no idea if the fit will be good or not. It's completely different than on ears, where I can tell from weight, headband style, reviews what the fit will be like. 

Cheers


----------



## digitalazer

frozenOx said:


> Well...this is embarassing. I was using my LG G7 to listen to the KZ ZAX and I completely forgot about the stupid impedance detection on it. I usually have something over 50ohms plugged in, never had any decent IEMs (monoprice mp80) before which are way less sensitivie than Sennheiser, Beyers, Hifimans
> 
> Put a 3.5mm extension on it to trick it into the line out mode, and voila. Much better. Also checked on some other sources, MOTU M4, JDS Atom, etc. and can confirm they're much better now. Bass is still a bit loose and undefined in those low mids, but it's listenable now without EQ and only really shows its ugly head on certain tracks.
> 
> ...



I was thinking you could also use some slightly wider bore tips, which will accentuate the highs & mids, while lessening the bass impact a bit. Worked well for my ZAX for classical and synth. The ePros Horn shaped tips or Spinfit CP100 might do it for you if the dongle solution doesn't work out. The ZAX is a good, solid baseline for moving up to next tier.


----------



## alamnp

frozenOx said:


> Well...this is embarassing. I was using my LG G7 to listen to the KZ ZAX and I completely forgot about the stupid impedance detection on it. I usually have something over 50ohms plugged in, never had any decent IEMs (monoprice mp80) before which are way less sensitivie than Sennheiser, Beyers, Hifimans
> 
> Put a 3.5mm extension on it to trick it into the line out mode, and voila. Much better. Also checked on some other sources, MOTU M4, JDS Atom, etc. and can confirm they're much better now. Bass is still a bit loose and undefined in those low mids, but it's listenable now without EQ and only really shows its ugly head on certain tracks.
> 
> ...



i would play it safe, from the reviews out there, clear winner is either Starsea or NM2+.

personally I have NM2+, no complaints, amazing IEM for sure


----------



## RCracer777

frozenOx said:


> Well...this is embarassing. I was using my LG G7 to listen to the KZ ZAX and I completely forgot about the stupid impedance detection on it. I usually have something over 50ohms plugged in, never had any decent IEMs (monoprice mp80) before which are way less sensitivie than Sennheiser, Beyers, Hifimans


Using a G7 myself I get where you're coming from. Some things just don't sound right on it when compared to my X7. They just come alive on the X7, that said the ZAX never sounded bad to me on the G7.


----------



## wopossum

You guys sold me on ZAX. I bought them with IBasso DC03. Yeah, I know it's possibly not necessary, as some of you mentioned but I actually wanted to check if there would be a difference with my source since I don't have something more decent than an outdated 150$ smartphone from 2016 and a PC with really old Realtek ALC892. 
I have also thought of getting DC04 because it has a balanced 4.4 output, but I got rid of the idea, I doubt it would be as useful as standard 3.5 that I'm able to put into anything. I have also bought the KBEAR 16-core pure copper cable(not silver-plated) and... Spinfits 100, 800 and 145. I'm used to foam tips but let's see. I have a feeling that at least one of them may not fit on the ZAX. But anyway, I could sell any mentioned gear on the aftermarket, right? Haha.

Being completely honest with you guys. Coming from ZS1 then to ZS5(v2) having a tremendous difference and then now DC03 + ZAX. I hope to see a positive difference.

I do also hope that I won't fall too deep into this rabbit hole.



kalo86 said:


> Probably you can look at the KZ ZAX.





Slater said:


> would definitely recommend the ZAX then, and I think you’d be quite happy with them.





unifutomaki said:


> Agreed, you can't go wrong with the ZAX.





digitalazer said:


> Just got my NM2+ and been enjoying them, but I still have lingering memories of my beloved ZAX. My last memory of them was an intense, spiritual journey with a sour gummy octopus edible and Universe by Laraaji. The ZAXs are unreal with it's clarity, enveloping bass+energy, and engrossing soundstage.


----------



## frozenOx

RCracer777 said:


> Using a G7 myself I get where you're coming from. Some things just don't sound right on it when compared to my X7. They just come alive on the X7, that said the ZAX never sounded bad to me on the G7.


Try it. Plug them straight in. Then put a 3.5mm extension in by itself to trigger line out mode, then plug ZAX into the extension. There's a huge boost in volume, especially for the bass.

These are incredibly sensitive to tips too. I finally found a pair that work better than the stock. Too large an opening or too deep and the bass blooms too much. Too small or shallow and treble gets sibilant. I think i have a similar opening and depth as the stock, just with a wider shell.


----------



## voicemaster

frozenOx said:


> Try it. Plug them straight in. Then put a 3.5mm extension in by itself to trigger line out mode, then plug ZAX into the extension. There's a huge boost in volume, especially for the bass.
> 
> These are incredibly sensitive to tips too. I finally found a pair that work better than the stock. Too large an opening or too deep and the bass blooms too much. Too small or shallow and treble gets sibilant. I think i have a similar opening and depth as the stock, just with a wider shell.


Try the azla xelastec eartips. It is expensive, but it is good.


----------



## alamnp

wopossum said:


> You guys sold me on ZAX. I bought them with IBasso DC03. Yeah, I know it's possibly not necessary, as some of you mentioned but I actually wanted to check if there would be a difference with my source since I don't have something more decent than an outdated 150$ smartphone from 2016 and a PC with really old Realtek ALC892.
> I have also thought of getting DC04 because it has a balanced 4.4 output, but I got rid of the idea, I doubt it would be as useful as standard 3.5 that I'm able to put into anything. I have also bought the KBEAR 16-core pure copper cable(not silver-plated) and... Spinfits 100, 800 and 145. I'm used to foam tips but let's see. I have a feeling that at least one of them may not fit on the ZAX. But anyway, I could sell any mentioned gear on the aftermarket, right? Haha.
> 
> Being completely honest with you guys. Coming from ZS1 then to ZS5(v2) having a tremendous difference and then now DC03 + ZAX. I hope to see a positive difference.
> ...



wow you went overboard bro... ZAX is just good by itself, no need upgraded tip and cable, they have provided good tips and cable. 
also you don't need DAC, sounded the same with my Iphone vs BTR5.

The beauty of KZ, sounds good out of the box...


----------



## digitalazer

alamnp said:


> wow you went overboard bro... ZAX is just good by itself, no need upgraded tip and cable, they have provided good tips and cable.
> also you don't need DAC, sounded the same with my Iphone vs BTR5.
> 
> The beauty of KZ, sounds good out of the box...



I'm personally not a big fan of their starline tips as it doesn't help with the isolation. But I do like their cable. I currently use the ZAX's cable for my NM2+ as it offers a good mic option since the majority of my listening is off my phone and I'm not one to hear differences in cable types. It also works well with my Qudelix 5K


----------



## Slater

wopossum said:


> Coming from ZS1 then to ZS5(v2) having a tremendous difference and then now DC03 + ZAX. I hope to see a positive difference.



Which ZS1 version do you have? What does the nozzle look like when you take the eartip off? Is there a brass metal piece with a hole in the center, or a stainless mesh covering the nozzle?


----------



## wopossum (Dec 11, 2020)

alamnp said:


> wow you went overboard bro... ZAX is just good by itself, no need upgraded tip and cable, they have provided good tips and cable.




It's okay  I initially thought of just getting ZSX.


----------



## wopossum

Slater said:


> Which ZS1 version do you have? What does the nozzle look like when you take the eartip off? Is there a brass metal piece with a hole in the center, or a stainless mesh covering the nozzle?



A basic mesh. Not the fancier version, I might suggest. I bought them in August 2016.


----------



## Slater

wopossum said:


> A basic mesh. Not the fancier version, I might suggest. I bought them in August 2016.



That’s the ZS1 v2. It was ok, but nowhere near as good as v1. So yeah, ZAX is going to be a big upgrade


----------



## chinmie

frozenOx said:


> Well...this is embarassing. I was using my LG G7 to listen to the KZ ZAX and I completely forgot about the stupid impedance detection on it. I usually have something over 50ohms plugged in, never had any decent IEMs (monoprice mp80) before which are way less sensitivie than Sennheiser, Beyers, Hifimans
> 
> Put a 3.5mm extension on it to trick it into the line out mode, and voila. Much better. Also checked on some other sources, MOTU M4, JDS Atom, etc. and can confirm they're much better now. Bass is still a bit loose and undefined in those low mids, but it's listenable now without EQ and only really shows its ugly head on certain tracks.
> 
> ...



haven't tried the other IEMs you listed, but i have the Tape Pro. quite good, good detail resolution and separation, though it still has that nasal sounding upper mids. 
the recent purchase that impressed me was the LZ A7, but that's north of the 100usd range you mentioned


----------



## kalo86 (Dec 12, 2020)

I received my KZ ZAX with the Tripowin balanced cable QDC 4.4mm. I paired them to my iBasso DX220 with AMP8-EX.






In one word: wow!

I think they are stunning for the price, there is no competition!
Now I will let them in burn-in process and I will check again in a couple of days.

Thank you for the recommendation, very very appreciated!
The last KZ iem I tried was the ZS3. The evolution of KZ has been unbelievable!


----------



## Nimweth

After @Slater reminded me about the ZS7 I listened to this track. Perfect material for the ZS7!


----------



## Slater

.


Nimweth said:


> After @Slater reminded me about the ZS7 I listened to this track. Perfect material for the ZS7!



Great track! Synth future wave goodness


----------



## unifutomaki

kalo86 said:


> I received my KZ ZAX with the Tripowin balanced cable QDC 4.4mm. I paired them to my iBasso DX220 with AMP8-EX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm glad you like them! They remain in my regular rotation and it always feels like coming back to a familiar friend.


----------



## RONJA MESCO

unifutomaki said:


> Flippin' eck if anyone will blind buy the CS16 after the KZ saga


facts...had the CA16, and sent them back...gonna wait before I head to CCA-land again...


----------



## MacAttack7

unifutomaki said:


> Flippin' eck if anyone will blind buy the CS16 after the KZ saga


I took one for the team and ordered the CS16 yesterday.
I probably shouldn't have done it, but they suckered me in with a sale price.


----------



## alamnp

kalo86 said:


> I received my KZ ZAX with the Tripowin balanced cable QDC 4.4mm. I paired them to my iBasso DX220 with AMP8-EX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



btw ZAX is one of the IEM that does not need burn in... sounds good to start... under $100 I think... ZAX is in top 3


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 13, 2020)

MacAttack7 said:


> I took one for the team and ordered the CS16 yesterday.
> I probably shouldn't have done it, but they suckered me in with a sale price.


Waiting for the DQ6 to be released and I will most likely order it. Meanwhile, Blon BL01 is coming.


----------



## 1clearhead

KZ EDX - a must have on a budget!

The KZ EDX are stupid amazing with Silver cables! Forget about the copper or bright-copper cables they come with, they do an about face with Silver cables! Gone is the overly sibilance and harshness that comes with the brightness. In is a vivid more mature sound and clarity! They go from sounding like a C- to an A+ earphones.
For the KZ EDX, silver cables are the way to go! 



-Clear


----------



## astermk

1clearhead said:


> KZ EDX - a must have on a budget!
> 
> The KZ EDX are stupid amazing with Silver cables! Forget about the copper or bright-copper cables they come with, they do an about face with Silver cables! Gone is the overly sibilance and harshness that comes with the brightness. In is a vivid more mature sound and clarity! They go from sounding like a C- to an A+ earphones.
> For the KZ EDX, silver cables are the way to go!
> ...


The cheapest pure silver cables around are 3x more expensive than the KZ EDX itself. Not sure how many people would bother doing that.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

astermk said:


> The cheapest pure silver cables around are 3x more expensive than the KZ EDX itself. Not sure how many people would bother doing that.



It is applicable to only those who have few cables lying around. Newbies will anyway like EDX OOTB.


----------



## baskingshark

KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.

3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?



Lol. Hope they do something different with them.


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?



Inb4 it has a V-shaped sound signature with recessed lower mids, boosted upper mids and basically sounds like 1 DD


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> Inb4 it has a V-shaped sound signature with recessed lower mids, boosted upper mids and basically sounds like 1 DD



True, KZ will probably still stick to their V shaped comfort zone in all likelihood. Actually there's a real possibility it may sound worse than a 1 DD. The more drivers one adds in, the higher chance of screwing up something, like crossovers, coherency issues etc. There's probably a reason why there's not many multi DD sets out there.


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> True, KZ will probably still stick to their V shaped comfort zone in all likelihood. Actually there's a real possibility it may sound worse than a 1 DD. The more drivers one adds in, the higher chance of screwing up something, like crossovers, coherency issues etc. There's probably a reason why there's not many multi DD sets out there.



True. Maybe KZ is trying to revive the multi-DD craze - the cult favourite OG Tin T2 did have two DDs on each side after all! There have also been a few BQEYZ sets with dual DDs and BAs, and KZ ZS5/ZS6 of course


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?


Ordered.


----------



## wopossum

And don't forget about ZS1! Haha



unifutomaki said:


> KZ ZS5/ZS6


----------



## Mouseman

baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?


I didn't see the specs, but I'm hoping for two huge DDs mounted back to back for bass that shakes the windows, and 
the other one handling mids and high. Like a Kicker box in a hatchback. 

Looks like the QDC style plug (should we start calling it a KZ plug?) is here to stay.


----------



## trumpethead

baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?


I kinda like the look.. Might go for it.. But shipping delays are horrible from AliEx right now... Probably wait till after the holiday/covid shipping calms down....


----------



## alamnp

baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?



more pokemons... evolved pikachu


----------



## Slater

trumpethead said:


> I kinda like the look.. Might go for it.. But shipping delays are horrible from AliEx right now... Probably wait till after the holiday/covid shipping calms down....



In the description it says "This is a pre-sale item. Please extend shipping times by 7 days."


----------



## alamnp

baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Haha it seems even for DD they still wanna do a driver count nuclear race! Very unique driver config, any takers?



the next step up is... UM 3D terminator @$399, I wonder how the sound is... multiple DD... haven't heard any stellar reviews about them

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/unique-melody-3d-terminator-3dt-announcement-thread.949402/


----------



## Jenz

are 3 dynamic drivers useful? a single driver already covers the entire frequency response, so why 3?


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 13, 2020)

astermk said:


> The cheapest pure silver cables around are 3x more expensive than the KZ EDX itself. Not sure how many people would bother doing that.


For those that are on a budget, the all silver-plated copper cables that I pictured will do just fine. ...They cost just around or below the cost of the EDX.

Link:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.21b92e8dlAWJXm&id=590556856348&_u=e206rtltra9329

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33025713825.html?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Jenz said:


> are 3 dynamic drivers useful? a single driver already covers the entire frequency response, so why 3?


Just KZ things. Lol


----------



## voicemaster

Jenz said:


> are 3 dynamic drivers useful? a single driver already covers the entire frequency response, so why 3?


3 dynamic drivers IEM is not new. JVC has that several years back, Unique Melody also has 3 DD on their IEM. Same thing with a single BA driver can cover the entire frequency response, why would we even need multiple BA right? 
In the speaker world, the most common speaker configuration is a 3 way system (High = tweeter, Mid = mid-range and Low = woofer).


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> 3 dynamic drivers IEM is not new. JVC has that several years back, Unique Melody also has 3 DD on their IEM. Same thing with a single BA driver can cover the entire frequency response, why would we even need multiple BA right?
> In the speaker world, the most common speaker configuration is a 3 way system (High = tweeter, Mid = mid-range and Low = woofer).


Hopefully, KZ provided a cross-over circuit somewhere in that 3 way configuration. Who knows?


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> 3 dynamic drivers IEM is not new. JVC has that several years back, Unique Melody also has 3 DD on their IEM. Same thing with a single BA driver can cover the entire frequency response, why would we even need multiple BA right?
> In the speaker world, the most common speaker configuration is a 3 way system (High = tweeter, Mid = mid-range and Low = woofer).



Not to mention the I-into i8, some JVC model that the i8 copied, YINJW P8, a QKZ copy of the YINJW P8, and others


----------



## courierdriver

alamnp said:


> btw ZAX is one of the IEM that does not need burn in... sounds good to start... under $100 I think... ZAX is in top 3


Nice to know. I had that same experience with my ZS10 PRO. The only set in my collection that sounds awesome right outta the box. I thought they got better with burn in, but straight out, they were great even with the medium pre installed tips. Can't say that about anything else I own. Everything else usually is disappointing without a significant amount of burn in. Glad to know that the ZAX is great right away.


----------



## JazzVinyl

courierdriver said:


> Nice to know. I had that same experience with my ZS10 PRO. The only set in my collection that sounds awesome right outta the box. I thought they got better with burn in, but straight out, they were great even with the medium pre installed tips. Can't say that about anything else I own. Everything else usually is disappointing without a significant amount of burn in. Glad to know that the ZAX is great right away.



Agree ZAX sounded good out of the box.  But I did notice smoother treble (less 'metal' sounding) with use.  Lots of use later and I don't think there is any "metal sounding tinge" to the treble...


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 13, 2020)

Yesterday was a sad day for the whale. It was the first time I'd taken out my VJJB K4 in a few years.





I inadvertently stepped on the cable and as luck (or destiny) would have it the cable separated at the mic.

*Nooooo!!!*

I would have been even more bummed if this had occurred to my ebony K4.



Spoiler














Nevertheless, my first thought was that I now have an "oppoty" to re cable the K4. I started hunting for a suitable cable and came across these inexpensive shells which look terribly familiar.



Spoiler













Can you say CCA CST?

(for the most part)




Then I thought "hey, I could repurpose the K4 drivers in new housing and massage the tuning to my liking. Then I came across all of these inexpensive DIY housings.



Spoiler

























and by now I'm thinking "hey, I can be my own guinea pig. Do a little research, employ a little trial and error and I may just wind up with something quite unique that I'll really enjoy. More importantly, I'll get an education in the process.

Of course I kept finding more and more stuff to whet my appetite so down the rabbit hole I went.



Spoiler




















My question now becomes "why not try my hand at customizing my own stuff?"
If I'm going to spend the money anyway then let that money pay for my education. I have over 100 Chi-Fi in-ears and I wouldn't want to part with maybe 2 out 10 of them. I will still pick up an interesting offering here and there, like the DQ6






but at this point I think I'll have more fun experimenting and tweaking.






Slater said:


> That’s the ZS1 v2. It was ok, but nowhere near as good as v1.



Regarding the ZS1:

I found both of these on Aliexpress so I'll pick up a few sets and I'll try to recreate the ZS1 v1 with the washers but I need to learn more about crossovers so I can implement one properly in order to resurrect "Lord Bass" (the ZS1 nickname per B9Scrambler).



Spoiler


















Of course I will re cable both the ZS1 and ZS2 but I will be tweaking the ZS2 midrange (I remember the upper midrange being slightly shouty.

By the way, Slater, what size is that brass washer installed on the ZS1 v1?






kalo86 said:


> The last KZ iem I tried was the ZS3. The evolution of KZ has been unbelievable!



Regarding the ZS3:

Agreed! KZ has progressed by leaps and bounds since the debut of the ZS3. That said, I still think the form factor of the ZS3 is as relevant today as it was when it debuted.



Spoiler









Mainly because in-ear housing is half the battle. The housing shell (or the likeness thereof) was good enough for StageDriver at $300, $400 and $500 price points so the $15 ZS3 form factor is good enough for me. Given the current lockdown status I think I'll put the free time to use trying to create a sound signature worthy of the shell's fit and comfort but I first need to acquire more knowledge about crossover implementation and where to actually source in-ear crossovers.



Spoiler








Click and then double tap to expand this image




Luke (Vibro) was a wealth of knowledge in these matters.








MacAttack7 said:


> I took one for the team and ordered the CS16 yesterday.
> I probably shouldn't have done it, but they suckered me in with a sale price.



Hold your head up, brother. This is a good thing. We need feedback. If no one tried any of the in-ears we all discuss here then we'd all be in the dark. Thanks for taking the plunge.




voicemaster said:


> Waiting for the DQ6 to be released and I will most likely order it.



I will definitely be ordering at least two sets. That's less than $60. If they issue more than one color I'll probably order more. KZ has a nasty habit of tweaking the sound to address the concerns of *some* reviewers after a model's initial release (ZS1, ZS3, ZS5, ZS6 and ZSR).

Yes, you read that correctly. The ZSR v1 was a real gem to my ears. So much so that after a few months I ordered all of the other colors. When they arrived I excitedly opened the white ZSR first, hoping to hear exactly what my original ZSR sounds like.

Nope! 

All of the new ones sound boomy and slightly muddy.

To anyone with the ZSR:

If your ZSR came with KZ's braided cable then chances are that you have a ZSR v2. The ZSR v1 was only shipped with the rubbery non-braided cable. Some reviewers complained that the upper midrange was too strident on the ZSR and KZ subsequently tweaked the tuning and ruined a great in-ear. My ZSR v1 sounds like an ED16 with a bit more verve and kick. The ZSR v2 sounds dark and veiled with a monotonous one-note base.

They tweaked the ZSR and ruined it.
They tweaked the ZS6 and ruined it.
They tweaked the ZS1 and ruined it.
They tweaked the ZS5 and ruined it.

*RUINOUS! 

JUST RUINOUS!*




baskingshark said:


> KZ DQ6 is now available on Aliexpress, on multiple shops.
> 
> 3 DD set, going at $27 USD.
> Very unique driver config, any takers?



That would be me. *Link please!*





baskingshark said:


> True, KZ will probably still stick to their V shaped comfort zone in all likelihood. Actually there's a real possibility it may sound worse than a 1 DD. The more drivers one adds in, the higher chance of screwing up something, like crossovers, coherency issues etc. There's probably a reason why there's not many multi DD sets out there.



For the most part I agree with you but I'm hoping that there has been enough progress in R&D to give us something unique and pleasant. Unique Melody has a 3DD offering as well that, rumor has it, should be available for sale about a week from today give or take a few days. I am looking forward to feedback on the Unique Melody unit but I absolutely *must* have the DQ6 in it's debut iteration before KZ starts tweaking things shortly *after* the reviews start coming in.





unifutomaki said:


> True. Maybe KZ is trying to revive the multi-DD craze - the cult favourite OG Tin T2 did have two DDs on each side after all! There have also been a few BQEYZ sets with dual DDs and BAs, and KZ ZS5/ZS6 of course



Agreed

and those hybrids were all chart-topping Chi-Fi in their $50 price bracket.

By the way, what ever happened to this promising model?





The BQEYZ BQ6


----------



## Slater

Alpha Whale said:


> Regarding the ZS1:
> 
> I found both of these on Aliexpress so I'll pick up a few sets and I'll try to recreate the ZS1 v1 with the washers but I need to learn more about crossovers so I can implement one properly in order to resurrect "Lord Bass" (the ZS1 nickname per B9Scrambler).



What are you going to do about the crossover that’s in the ZS1 v1, but eliminated in the ZS1 v2 and ZS2?


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 14, 2020)

Slater said:


> What are you going to do about the crossover that’s in the ZS1 v1, but eliminated in the ZS1 v2 and ZS2?



It'll be a process. I have to figure it out. First I need to get more educated about crossover implementation, meanwhile I'll be trying to find a good source for crossovers.

Any information or links would be great.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## baskingshark

Alpha Whale said:


> That would be me. *Link please!*



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001879050215.html

Strange, I saw it on at least 3 shops yesterday, now it only seems to be selling on this one.

Look forward to your impressions if you are getting it!


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 14, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001879050215.html
> 
> Strange, I saw it on at least 3 shops yesterday, now it only seems to be selling on this one.
> 
> Look forward to your impressions if you are getting it!




AWESOME!!

Yes, I'll definitely be getting it.






If this store's listing is legit then I'll pick up the DQ6 in silver, red and blue.

To me, $90 is an acceptable wager for several sets of a multi-DD KZ.



In other news, the Unique Melody 3 dynamic driver in-ear is $399.


Spoiler














It comes with a neat case but I'd probably look to upgrade the cable.



The QDC Magic 3 dynamic driver in-ear is $1,650.


Spoiler












and the QDC DMagic frequency response is reminiscent of my KZ BA10. I bet it'll sound good.
Both the Unique Melody and the QDC use a compound (back to back) set-up for their 7mm and 8mm drivers, respectively for the lower frequencies and a 10mm driver for the upper. There is little information on the KZ set-up but looking at the DQ6 housing it should be a similarconfiguration. The housing simply looks too compact for the drivers to be separated in an individual layout.

Me, I won't be spending $1,650 or $400 on *any* one set of earphones but $90 is an acceptable wager for several sets of a multi-DD KZ.

It might be a train wreck but it might just be a revelation.

Regardless, thanks for the link, Shark!


----------



## baskingshark

Alpha Whale said:


> AWESOME!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Respect! U are buying 3 of these???!!! I mean it is relatively affordable but why are you getting 3 of the same? Unless u really dig the design or are a true KZ pokemon collector! Well, I think there might be unit variation among identical CHIFI sets, but by and large, they should sound somewhat similar I suppose.

I do buy spares of some gear I like, like the BLONs, Vidos, the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro, some banned piezo set. But I've recently stopped doing that as I realize the costs do add up for identical sets, and sooner or later they may add up to a midfi gear! And the way some of these CHIFI go (especially KZ), a pro version of what you bought can very well come out a few weeks later!


----------



## alamnp

Alpha Whale said:


> AWESOME!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wow... TWO THUMBS UP...


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 14, 2020)

baskingshark said:


> Respect! U are buying 3 of these???!!! I mean it is relatively affordable but why are you getting 3 of the same?
> 
> I've recently stopped doing that as I realize the costs do add up for identical sets, and sooner or later they may add up to a midfi gear! And the way some of these CHIFI go (especially KZ), a pro version of what you bought can very well come out a few weeks later!



For me, it's the chase. I enjoy chasing down entertaining gear at a more than reasonable price.

I came to the realization that with audio gear there will *always* be something *better* released next week. That goes for summit-fi gear as well as entry level gear. That goes for earphones, headphones, DAPs, amplifiers, etc..

Through the years I've learned that it's best to keep my hobby expenses at a manageable level so I can enjoy the hobby without regrets. I have no regrets in owning several of the same exact model from KZ/CCA, BQEYZ, BossHiFi/Blon, SoundMAGIC, Sony and several other brands. I bet the Tin HiFi T2 is a revelation because everybody raves about it. I never picked it up because the consensus was that it was bass-light and it has MMCX issues. I know myself. Everybody might rave about it but I would rarely use it if I had purchased it. The bass in a song should be heard. I get the whole minimizing the bass to facilitate clarity but I know myself well enough to know that the entire time that I'd be listening to the T2 would be like eating cereal without the milk. I could say "hey this is just like trail mix" but really, where's the milk?

By the way, my understanding is that those Tin HiFi MMCX issues were never properly addressed and they plagued the T3 and T4 as well. I did, however, pick up the Tin Audio T1 with its fixed cable and I like it very much. It has the perfect amount of low frequency response and is well suited for a lot of genres.

Once coupled to my DAP an in-ear should hold my attention and keep me connected with the wide variety of music I enjoy. I've got about two dozen in-ears that do that very well.

$5 Sony MH755
$50 KB100
$70 AS12
$70 BA10
$50 KC2
$50 ZS6
$35 Tin T1
$35 Boss HiFi B3
$6 HDS3
$9 ED9
$23 ED16
$27 ZSR
$25 DZAT DF10
$10 ATR
$5 EDR1
and on and on....

and I'm having a blast!

I have three AS12's. Why three?

The AS12 handles classical, jazz, standards, EDM, R&B, synth-pop and singer/songwriter genres very well. This is mostly due to the AS12's versatility and its synergy with my DAP. The BBE function works wonders for bass-forward genres on the AS12 while the slightly forward midrange and upper frequency detail checks practically every box for the remaining genres.

It's not a perfect in-ear but it's perfect for me. It does everything I expect a competent in-ear to do with the slight exception of the BA timbre. But BA timbre issues are not exclusive to KZ in-ears. BA timbre is a common issue for entry level gear as well as summit-fi gear. Incidentally, this is the reason I find the ASF/ASX so interesting. I don't pick up the "BA timbre" issue with it. It's not a perfect in-ear but I like the way it sounds and I think it may be a notable in-ear worth having (like the ZS5 v1 or ZS3) because it may be an important timestamp in the company's progress. I know there are a lot of KZ haters and some of it is justified but for the most part I like the company.

For years I've been reading reviews of mid-fi and summit-fi gear. Whether it's a $200 set or a $2,000 set of in-ears I hear the same key words and phrases (sibilance, congested, recessed, strident, piercing and so on). I'm sure that the $2,000 HiFiMan RE2000 sound better than most of my collection but several reviewers that I have mad respect for (Currawong, B9Scrambler, HiFiChris and a few others) gave the RE2000 4 out of 5 stars and sometimes less (Nymphonomaniac and HiFiChris).

If I pay two grand for a set of in-ears I'd feel the self-induced pressure to use them often due to the investment. Ironically, I've spent approx $2,000 on my current collection and that pressure is nowhere to be found. I just pick up a set that I think I'm in the mood for. I connect them to my DAP and I'm off to enjoy my music. No other concerns. Not a one.

So, why three sets of the DQ6?

I find that, for the most part, some of the best models that KZ has released (ZS5, ZS6, ZSR, probably the ZS1) are tuned properly the first time around. Unfortunately, KZ has a penchant for rearranging the apples in their apple cart when someone snarles *"I like red apples, I don't care for KZ's green apples"*. KZ then grabs a can of spray paint and tries to paint their green apples red. I buy KZ's green apples because I like green apples. When they spray paint them red I want to grab them by the collar and ask them why.

It's a green apple. Just let it be a green apple. Some of us like green apples. Red apples are fine but I'm at their cart to buy green apples.

They can't be all things to all people all of the time. If they want to offer red apples then open a cart that offers red apples but leave the green apples alone. Put down the spray paint.

If I really like the DQ6 I want multiple sets right off the bat and here is why.



> I will definitely be ordering at least two sets. That's less than $60. If they issue more than one color I'll probably order more. KZ has a nasty habit of tweaking the sound to address the concerns of some reviewers after a model's initial release (ZS1, ZS3, ZS5, ZS6 and ZSR).
> 
> Yes, you read that correctly. The ZSR v1 was a real gem to my ears. So much so that after a few months I ordered all of the other colors. When they arrived I excitedly opened the white ZSR first, hoping to hear exactly what my original ZSR sounds like.
> 
> ...




Here's to hoping that KZ tunes the DQ6 with a bad*** sound signature.
I'm hoping it has *kick-to-the-head *bass with equally impressive upper frequencies (like the old skool ED8,  which itself was never a perfect in-era but man is that thing fun).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/page-362

In the meantime, please KZ, lose the spray paint.


----------



## trumpethead

Slater said:


> In the description it says "This is a pre-sale item. Please extend shipping times by 7 days."


Thanks!


----------



## wopossum

Alpha Whale said:


> I have three AS12's. Why three?



Yes, you have a good point. It's good to understand that there is something better almost every other day and it's not the reason to blame yourself for not having something new even though it might be slightly better. Constant gear updates & consumerism leads to losing nerves. It doesn't matter if it's a PC, audio gear, cameras, lenses or something else.


----------



## Podster (Dec 14, 2020)

Slater said:


> What are you going to do about the crossover that’s in the ZS1 v1, but eliminated in the ZS1 v2 and ZS2?



That Lord B9 knows what he's talking about with the ZS1  Still love my Garden Hose QKZ ZN1 Mini berry berry mucho I had the fabled ZN1 (I'm still confused to this day over the ZS1/ZN1 naming's) and worked well for a while but too much to fail on that one which the amp finally did but a neat concept for sure, thinking they should have just stuck with the non-amped version






For me once they dropped the amp and kept the garden hose they had something especially back then in a DD





@Alpha Whale the K4 is still my favorite wood iem and a tiny killer to boot  Not to mention who don't love a sweet VJJ


----------



## Alpha Whale

Podster said:


> That Lord B9 knows what he's talking about with the ZS1  Still love my Garden Hose QKZ ZN1 Mini berry berry mucho I had the fabled ZN1 (I'm still confused to this day over the ZS1/ZN1 naming's) and worked well for a while but too much to fail on that one which the amp finally did but a neat concept for sure, thinking they should have just stuck with the non-amped version
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Love the *Newman's Own* amp and I remember reading about that amped set from KZ veterans like you! I've been following the thread since Wokei and that irritating James Freeman guy (I think that's his name) that tried to force feed everybody his *"one set for everything"* opinion. I don't think he understood the joy of the hobby. 

You, B9Scrambler, Eisenbrecher, Wokei, Slater and a few others were an inspiration to me. Just want to say thanks for your feedback through the years on this 50,000 strong  (posts) thread.


----------



## Podster (Dec 14, 2020)

If you go back to page 1846 (or around there) of this thread Circa 2018 you'll see my amped ZN1 rig with some other's, Greg (Slater) states his disappointment in how early his amp failed I believe

You are so right on Freeman not catching the drift, obviously had trouble thinking out the box  LOL What's the use in being in a hobby if your not having fun with it right!

Not to poo in the KZ thread, think I own enough of them to stray just a wee bit I'm enjoying this little setup today and like so many Chi-Fi iem's here's one underrated especially with BGVP filters in them and dollar for dollar the Benjie DAP's are bang for the buck like my X6 here. Was worried when I bought it that it would not be as sweet as my S5's (seems I've got every color)






I talk to WOKEI weekly still and he's done a couple reviews recently but he's pretty busy taking care of his Mum these days and working he has little time for this stuff but he gets a pass from me always


----------



## unifutomaki

KZ once sold an IEM with a built in amp?? I learn something new every day


----------



## Podster (Dec 14, 2020)

unifutomaki said:


> KZ once sold an IEM with a built in amp?? I learn something new every day



Indeed they did and when it worked it was very sweet however as mentioned it was not totally executed with longevity in mind 

How silly looking was this array The good part was the amp probably weighed less than all the cable!





Funny story about this amp as well as my ES100, BTR3K and Qudelix K5. More than once if not a half dozen time I'm asked when people see one of these hanging on or clipped to me they've asked the same thing or told me they thought it was some kind of medical device on me LOL


----------



## unifutomaki

This is equal parts insane and cool. Rechargeable battery, tone controls, mic for calls, and an LED status display? All tied to a specific IEM? I'm amazed


----------



## Slater

Alpha Whale said:


> Love the *Newman's Own* amp and I remember reading about that amped set from KZ veterans like you! I've been following the thread since Wokei and that irritating James Freeman guy (I think that's his name) that tried to force feed everybody his *"one set for everything"* opinion. I don't think he understood the joy of the hobby.
> 
> You, B9Scrambler, Eisenbrecher, Wokei, Slater and a few others were an inspiration to me. Just want to say thanks for your feedback through the years on this 50,000 strong  (posts) thread.



Haha, Wokei was a trip. I hope he’s been OK nowadays. Same with TwinACStacks.

And who can forget the Marshall Mode guy (in a KZ thread of all places)?

Good memories


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> If you go back to page 1846 (or around there) of this thread Circa 2018 you'll see my amped ZN1 rig with some other's, Greg (Slater) states his disappointment in how early his amp failed I believe
> 
> You are so right on Freeman not catching the drift, obviously had trouble thinking out the box  LOL What's the use in being in a hobby if your not having fun with it right!
> 
> ...



Yeah, I’m still salty about that to this day. It died after 2 months if I remember correctly.

I tried to buy another, but they were sold out by then. The problem was compounded by the fact that the ZN1 Mini came out, and a lot of sellers were confused by the 2 because the ZN1 Mini actually said ZN1 on it. So there were listings for the ZN1 (ie the amp version), but what you received was the ZN1 Mini  (I know because it happened to me).

I even tried to take mine apart to fix it, and the circuit board and solder joints etc was made so cheaply it basically self destructed in my hands to the point that it was beyond repair.

I still have the stupid thing in a ziplock baggie with the false hope that one day I can rebuild it like Steve Austin.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Yeah, I’m still salty about that to this day. It died after 2 months if I remember correctly.
> 
> I tried to buy another, but they were sold out by then. The problem was compounded by the fact that the ZN1 Mini came out, and a lot of sellers were confused by the 2 because the ZN1 Mini actually said ZN1 on it. So there were listings for the ZN1 (ie the amp version), but what you received was the ZN1 Mini  (I know because it happened to me).
> 
> ...



Well you would have to build it like Steve Austin if you wanted to last say more than 2 months  Eric is doing well but his Mum is getting up there and requires a lot of care. I'll send him your regards next time we are up on what's app


----------



## Podster

A lot of great KZ history in this thread  With all the new and fancy KZ's that have come out in the past 5-6 years I believe this is still one of my favorite looking KZ's ever and sound wise they can almost keep up with my ED9's The craziest thing is this entire setup cost me a hair over $36 and it still can please most listeners


----------



## Wgibson

@Alpha Whale no KZ EDX in your list? For ~$7 or less, you should grab it. Pretty impressive for what it is. They aren't too difficult to pop open either, the crystal color would be good for projects.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 14, 2020)

Podster said:


> A lot of great KZ history in this thread  With all the new and fancy KZ's that have come out in the past 5-6 years I believe this is still one of my favorite looking KZ's ever and sound wise they can almost keep up with my ED9's The craziest thing is this entire setup cost me a hair over $36 and it still can please most listeners


Each time you show this image - it reminds me of my first Audiophile (KZ-heritage(?)) IEM that came after Sony XB50, and cost about $36 alone from Amazon... took all the physical abuse, and still strong and very competitively sounding 




Speaking of new, and call it an expectation bias, I am very-very happy with wide-nozzle ASX:



No frequency gaps, no choking and quite extended but not harsh treble, and very airy 

I'll think I'll now get a black one (the poor nozzle donor will be less-loved ZSN Pro X).

I also ordered DQ6 today to fully experience the might of multi-DD KZs!

My first post (and the main reason to join HeadFi) was in this thread, and now it is my 1000-th post here


----------



## alamnp

PhonoPhi said:


> Each time you show this image - it reminds me of my first Audiophile (KZ-heritage(?)) IEM that came after Sony XB50, and cost about $36 alone from Amazon... took all the physical abuse, and still strong and very competitively sounding
> 
> 
> Speaking of new, and call it an expectation bias, I am very-very happy with wide-nozzle ASX:
> ...



same here, without KZ, there will be no Head Fi prolly.

KZ got me started with this hobby


----------



## rayliam80

alamnp said:


> same here, without KZ, there will be no Head Fi prolly.
> 
> KZ got me started with this hobby



KZ ZS6 along with an LG V30 purchased around the same time re-ignited my interests with headphones/earbuds/iems and helped me to further appreciate my CD/FLAC rips collection.


----------



## courierdriver

alamnp said:


> same here, without KZ, there will be no Head Fi prolly.
> 
> KZ got me started with this hobby


Headfi was around before KZ but they were about either DIY or crazy expensive iems and headphones. While this super expensive stuff is still available and talked about on the forums, I think that the KZ thread has a huge number of posts and subscribers. What this shows is that there are many more people who want great sound, without spending a fortune. When I joined headfi back in 2005, it seemed kinda like an online version of Stereophile. Lots of great reviews and opinions of stuff I couldn't afford. Ten years+ later, the less expensive stuff from brands like KZ became something I could aspire to.


----------



## JazzVinyl

Head-Fi was a popular place to talk about DIY projects when it first began.  Lots of people were making their own cmoy amps, back then.


----------



## purplesun

Also, how to repair old Sennheiser headphones with pantyhoses and bits of adhesive tape


----------



## voicemaster

purplesun said:


> Also, how to repair old Sennheiser headphones with pantyhoses and bits of adhesive tape


I remember when Sennheiser HD600/650 was the best headphone of choice back then.


----------



## purplesun

voicemaster said:


> I remember when Sennheiser HD600/650 was the best headphone of choice back then.


That's was newer one at the turn of the century  Mine's the older HD565 Ovation which I got for a steal at just over USD$200 at a trade show. Think it was $400 new then. Preferred it over the highly-praised HD580. IMHO, the 565 was a better all-rounder than 580 (and much cheaper at $200+). How's that for a comparison review 25 years too late


----------



## BubisUK

KZ DQ6 is on preorder now  21.55$ from MissAudio store when using the code.


----------



## Slater

BubisUK said:


> KZ DQ6 is on preorder now  21.55$ from MissAudio store when using the code.



What is the code?


----------



## BubisUK

Slater said:


> What is the code?


4ODK1TBWU84W and if you message them you can get another 1$, when you press that present icon in the messenger  so it ends up costing 20.55$


----------



## wopossum

Does anybody know if earphones with a metallic shell design suffer from the condensation? I mean, can it do some damage to the drivers? I heard rumours about TRN having this kind of issues. Now I'm worried about ZAX since it has an open design.


----------



## baskingshark

wopossum said:


> Does anybody know if earphones with a metallic shell design suffer from the condensation? I mean, can it do some damage to the drivers? I heard rumours about TRN having this kind of issues. Now I'm worried about ZAX since it has an open design.



The TRN BA5 and some sets like LZ A6 mini have this moisture condensation issue where moisture builds up in the mesh/nozzle and causes intermittent sound cut out. Once dried the sound returns. I don't think it has anything to do with the shell but more at the nozzle mesh. And also depends on the humidity in your country and how long duration you listen to it.

Seems later batches have been fixed with changing the meshes.


----------



## kalo86

I tried to close the openings of the ZAX with my fingers and the sound quality is not changing. Therefore I strongly suppose that the openings are only for aesthetic reason.


----------



## zenki

Uh oh return of the KZ


----------



## BubisUK

KZ/CCA seems to tune everything the same way lately. DQ6 and CKX


----------



## Podster (Dec 15, 2020)

purplesun said:


> That's was newer one at the turn of the century  Mine's the older HD565 Ovation which I got for a steal at just over USD$200 at a trade show. Think it was $400 new then. Preferred it over the highly-praised HD580. IMHO, the 565 was a better all-rounder than 580 (and much cheaper at $200+). How's that for a comparison review 25 years too late



It's never too late  I'm sure if some of the Senn full size followers saw this they would agree 

Not that I know exactly where the thread is but putting a shred of absorbing cotton type material (in the nozzle of course) will help alleviate the issue and give longer listening periods to moisture prone iem's as long as you use a light porous one

Let's celebrate everything KZ has brought to Chi-Fi and the hobby in general, viva KZ (seemed like the right thread for this)

I'm sure a lot got started with one of these or possibly even earlier like the Rings thang  





Then all the sudden you turn around and.............................





When I say "All the sudden you turn around" it seemed we were introduced to a new release monthly


----------



## JazzVinyl

voicemaster said:


> I remember when Sennheiser HD600/650 was the best headphone of choice back then.



Nah, it was modded HD580's!  Which I still own


----------



## Alpha Whale

Slater said:


> Same with TwinACStacks.
> 
> And who can forget the Marshall Mode guy (in a KZ thread of all places)?
> 
> Good memories



Yeah, I forgot about Twin but that Marshall Mode guy was unbearable. If my memory serves me correctly that was during the ED7 debut, which was another unique sounding KZ that didn't have many fans. They were cool but tip hunting was extensive for them.





Slater said:


> I still have the stupid thing in a ziplock baggie with the false hope that one day I can rebuild it like Steve Austin.



I've got about a dozen projects in ziplock baggies "with the false hope that one day I can rebuild it" and my VJJB just got added to the pile. 





Podster said:


> A lot of great KZ history in this thread  With all the new and fancy KZ's that have come out in the past 5-6 years I believe this is still one of my favorite looking KZ's ever and sound wise they can almost keep up with my ED9's



I do own a set of the DT5 but unfortunately not the rare set you have there. Very cool. 

I pulled mine out a few weeks ago but forgot to put them back in their case. 
Need to do that, ASAP.

Does anyone here own the DT3? 



Spoiler









I always wondered about those and the more rare RX in white that I hesitated pulling the trigger on. They were kind of cool looking with the white cable and Monster Turbine thing going on there.



Spoiler









I've no idea how either of them sound.






Wgibson said:


> @Alpha Whale no KZ EDX in your list? For ~$7 or less, you should grab it. Pretty impressive for what it is. They aren't too difficult to pop open either, the crystal color would be good for projects.



I'll probably get a white EDX and two clear EDX. 
Not interested in the gray, black or Smokey EDX.

Can anyone comment on how the EDX compares to the ATR (either v1 or v2) or the most recent ATE?






PhonoPhi said:


> Each time you show this image - it reminds me of my first Audiophile (KZ-heritage(?)) IEM that came after Sony XB50, and cost about $36 alone from Amazon... took all the physical abuse, and still strong and very competitively sounding



That Ferro looks like a rebranded DT5 but I've never heard it so I can't confirm my suspicions. It does have dual dynamics and the KZ tips on it though.



Spoiler












PhonoPhi said:


> Speaking of new, and call it an expectation bias, I am very-very happy with wide-nozzle ASX:
> 
> No frequency gaps, no choking and quite extended but not harsh treble, and very airy
> 
> I'll think I'll now get a black one (the poor nozzle donor will be less-loved ZSN Pro X).



I have everything ready for the swap when my black ASF arrives. I can't bring myself to do it on the blue/silver model. They're just too stately. I've been swamped at work so I won't get to swapping the nozzles until next week, anyway.
I'm hoping I don't destroy the new ones in the process. A slow pace and steady hand should result in a good fit and finish.

Glad to hear your feedback on the presentation. Looking forward to hearing the upgraded presentation on my ASF. I took my unmodified ASF with me while grocery shopping and the experience just confirmed my initial impression of them. 
They are a bit too bassy for classical but they simply aced the following tracks.



Spoiler



Sounds rich, warm and natural. Forward midrange and no unpleasant peaks.


Again, rich, warm and natural. Centered midrange and no unpleasant peaks.
Not as bassy as some are led to believe but there is a great sense of weight in the notes and vocals.



The trumpet, sax, drums and vocals sound so natural here. 
A virtual one on one performance to my ears.


and here I feel like I'm on site with Tina Dico and the boys. 





The high resolution is definitely still present but the BAs have a more DD-type of presentation to me. The crisp leading edge of each instrument and voice that I have come to expect with balanced armatures is less present. 

Does the timbre or tonality on your ASX change for the better or for the worse once modified ? 

Thanks in advance.





PhonoPhi said:


> I also ordered DQ6 today to fully experience the might of multi-DD KZs!
> 
> My first post (and the main reason to join HeadFi) was in this thread, and now it is my 1000-th post here



It'll be cool comparing notes on the DQ6. I don't imagine they'd be released if they aren't perhaps at least a four star in-ear which I'm ok with but a four star plus 3DD 
in-ear would be such a steal at $25.  I'm really looking forward to them.

Congrats on the 1k milestone. It'll probably be a few years for me to hit that milestone.






courierdriver said:


> the KZ thread has a huge number of posts and subscribers. What this shows is that there are many more people who want great sound, without spending a fortune.
> 
> stuff from brands like KZ became something I could aspire to.



My raison d'etre.






Podster said:


> Let's celebrate everything KZ has brought to Chi-Fi and the hobby in general, viva KZ (seemed like the right thread for this)



Great collection!

I'll have to post pictures of some of my favorite in-ears in the near future.

Actually, it would be helpful if everyone can post a photo of their favorite KZ/CCA with a statement of why it's favored over other KZ/CCA models. Maybe the discussions around those photos could inspire a healthy interest in models that some of us have lost sight of.

I think everybody knows my favorite KZ by now but this little unassuming  $23 2+1 hybrid was quite an achievement considering its bang-for-buck ratio. The ZSR v1 is more fun but since that is no longer available this puppy is the next best thing if you can find one. 





Plenty of "air" and definition.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ed16.23179/reviews


----------



## Slater

A few people were asking about the KZ DQ6, with its 3xDynamic drivers.

KZ is certainly not the first to do this. This is a sample of some of the triple dynamics that I personally know of. I’m sure there are others.


----------



## courierdriver

JazzVinyl said:


> Head-Fi was a popular place to talk about DIY projects when it first began.  Lots of people were making their own cmoy amps, back then.


Yup...totally true. And many decided to sell them on Ebay. I bought two PAV MK2 from Gary due to him being a headfier. Wish I still had one of his little amps. Don't know if he's still building these things. Loved them so much that I wanted my family members to experience them, so I gave both my amps away as gifts. With all the new brighter sounding iems out there these days, I wish I had one of his amps on hand now, to connect them to. The PA2V2 was killer!


----------



## courierdriver

JazzVinyl said:


> Agree ZAX sounded good out of the box.  But I did notice smoother treble (less 'metal' sounding) with use.  Lots of use later and I don't think there is any "metal sounding tinge" to the treble...


Good to know; but I never had any of the issues others have reported about "metallic sounding treble" with either of my ZS10 PRO. I just enjoy their open, non fatiguing sound and great bass. For me, the sound just kinda washes over me. I don't need to be in "critical listening mode" to enjoy them. It just happens that sometimes I latch on to some song and I hear something that I didn't before. I prefer that kinda experience, as opposed to being in "evaluation mode".


----------



## PhonoPhi

Alpha Whale said:


> ...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...




The tonality of ASX with the wide nozzles definitively improved - it does not feel after the mod that something is missing, especially between the bass and mids, and more extended but not harsh treble.

I can't swap the nozzles now, easily, since I force-fitted them instead of adjusting by filing to fit, as was smartly suggested, so I can't directly compare.

The physical restriction of the nozzle cuts the sound, filtering some frequencies more.
My thinking that as all previous designs with the sound guide (A10, AS12, AS16), the original development was for the wide nozzles and then at some point it was decided to fit it into this new TWS-like one.

The difference between wide-nozzled ASX and original one can be summarized as being similar to the difference between ZAX (wide nozzles) and CA16 (narrow nozzles).
In fact, the latter difference was the inspiration for this mod, and the work of Master @Slater on CA16. I hope he will chime in with the details on his mods and the sound impressions.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> In fact, the latter difference was the inspiration for this mod, and the work of Master @Slater on CA16. I hope he will chime in with the details on his mods and the sound impressions.



I’m still working crazy hours at work due to covid, so I haven’t had any time for mods for months now 

Modding the CA16 is at the top of my list for when things slow down.


----------



## richario

Slater said:


> Haha, Wokei was a trip. I hope he’s been OK nowadays. Same with TwinACStacks.
> 
> And who can forget the Marshall Mode guy (in a KZ thread of all places)?
> 
> Good memories


Brings me back to when I first started following the KZ and original Chi-fi threads. I started with the Xiaomi Piston, then went through a few musicmaker items culminating in the TK13 following TwinACStacks - loved that unit but never got to try the legendary Shockwave III. 

Kz have just turned out to be my go to since this time - tried lots of their early dynamic drivers - but fell in love with the ZS5v1. I've owned at least 20 different sets of KZ, highlights being ZS6v1, ZS7, AS10 and ASF - the last 5 are particular favourites.

I feel.like I owe a great deal to all the long term contributors on this thread, it will always feel like a familiar place.


----------



## Podster

richario said:


> Brings me back to when I first started following the KZ and original Chi-fi threads. I started with the Xiaomi Piston, then went through a few musicmaker items culminating in the TK13 following TwinACStacks - loved that unit but never got to try the legendary Shockwave III.
> 
> Kz have just turned out to be my go to since this time - tried lots of their early dynamic drivers - but fell in love with the ZS5v1. I've owned at least 20 different sets of KZ, highlights being ZS6v1, ZS7, AS10 and ASF - the last 5 are particular favourites.
> I feel.like I owe a great deal to all the long term contributors on this thread, it will always feel like a familiar place.



You for sure need to add that BA10 to your KZ foundation  As far as Keith (TwinAC) he finally found what he liked in the iSines and was for sure ready to get off the merry-go-round/Rabbit Hole and just kick back and listen And if you can find a pair the SWIII is the fashizzle




I gave my SWIII's to one of my besties several years ago and he still loves & covets them to this day  (I do miss that ear drum crushing bass now and then though)!

You know another of my fave KZ's (still one of the best fitting iem's I own) and the best I believe final rendition of this series was the ZS4, as you can see I bought both colors to have that proper right & left. The right tips and cable along with the fit truly makes these a giant killer in some respects of course ymmv since we all do here them just a little differently


----------



## Podster (Dec 16, 2020)

That change and especially tips goes double for these babies since so many have fitment issues but they can be overcome. I needed just a hair more length in my nozzles to get the perfect depth and seal as seen in the photo 2 showing the black tip sleeve I cut for my extension that did the trick 4 me.







'

And just one more cause their so damn good lookin 





By the way @richario I let two different members on here have my 5v1's even though they were better than the v2's I much preferred the 6's and had red, green, black and the bass leaning gray ones however I've gifted the red's and greens away once I got ahold of my 7's and as I've mentioned before the 7 was the final and best iteration of that shell design imo of course everyone's mileage is going to vary/differ  The 7's blew me and my 4 pair of 6's away as I initially thought the 6 was the bees knees

Here's  my old blue v1's with both the colorful's and Carbon ZST's





And along comes Mr. 7 like the old spider


----------



## BigErik

PhonoPhi said:


> Out of your list (and given your hesitation with all-BAs) - just get ZAX. TRN is yet to change its image of quality control gamble/lacking.
> ZAX will be a very good IEM to appreciate and then either enjoy it forever or go from there down the infamous rabbit hole
> 
> Quite a bit of opinions above, about "the best IEM".
> ...


I also just got the mt300. Friend of mine's store he was selling it not as cheap as it is on AliExpress but I got it for a hundred bucks.I must tell you I was scared that there would be no bass and too much highs but I agree with you exactly it's very tape like. There's more than enough bass. And it's a clean controlled punchy base. I'm impressed so far I got to tell you.Obviously the presentation was out of control. Freaking awesome isn't it. The case is kind of cheesy but all the goodies holy cow I love that cable. Wow best of luck Erik


----------



## TheVortex

BigErik said:


> I also just got the mt300. Friend of mine's store he was selling it not as cheap as it is on AliExpress but I got it for a hundred bucks.I must tell you I was scared that there would be no bass and too much highs but I agree with you exactly it's very tape like. There's more than enough bass. And it's a clean controlled punchy base. I'm impressed so far I got to tell you.Obviously the presentation was out of control. Freaking awesome isn't it. The case is kind of cheesy but all the goodies holy cow I love that cable. Wow best of luck Erik



The MT300 is great and especially for £50 and easily beats similarly priced KZ's. 
I still need to try the KZ AS16 and BA10.


----------



## PhonoPhi

TheVortex said:


> The MT300 is great and especially for £50 and easily beats similarly priced KZ's.
> I still need to try the KZ AS16 and BA10.


MT300 is great, easily $100 great.
But what are the other similarly priced KZ?
Only AS16 and ASX come to mind. ZAX is noticeably less. All those 4 come close to my ears, as well as C16 and NX7 pro (I did modify ASX so it comes first for me).


----------



## TheVortex

PhonoPhi said:


> MT300 is great, easily $100 great.
> But what are the other similarly priced KZ?
> Only AS16 and ASX come to mind. ZAX is noticeably less. All those 4 come close to my ears, as well as C16 and NX7 pro (I did modify ASX so it comes first for me).



ASX, ASF and some from CCA.


----------



## BigErik

TheVortex said:


> The MT300 is great and especially for £50 and easily beats similarly priced KZ's.
> I still need to try the KZ AS16 and BA10.


I hear you isn't it funny how there's always something we want to test out 😹 you got to love it best of luck Erik


----------



## BigErik

PhonoPhi said:


> MT300 is great, easily $100 great.
> But what are the other similarly priced KZ?
> Only AS16 and ASX come to mind. ZAX is noticeably less. All those 4 come close to my ears, as well as C16 and NX7 pro (I did modify ASX so it comes first for me).


Well for me what's important believe it or not is accessories still like tips and such and whatnot. I'm trying to get like some nice cases to have like on my table or whatever you know what I mean with some stuff in it maybe nice.I definitely could use the earbuds again I'm poor so I kind of look for the overall value too. And plus it's my friend's store so and he's a reviewer so helps him out. He's always good to me so. But yeah thanks for the feedback take care Erik


----------



## trumpethead

I have been fully refunded by Ebay for my two orders of the zs10 pro from the Aussie scammer.. I have been extremely lucky with orders from AliEx but its nice to have money back Guarentees from Ebay and Amazon for most issues... I guess it was truly too good to be true! Happy Holidays!!


----------



## BigErik

TheVortex said:


> The MT300 is great and especially for £50 and easily beats similarly priced KZ's.
> I still need to try the KZ AS16 and BA10.


again I've mentioned before that I'm not well off so it's like an overall value thing for me still getting tips and such and couple of cases to maybe have some nice on my table or something you know. Plus it's my friend's store and he's a reviewer also so he's good to me but thank you for the feedback take care Erik


----------



## TheVortex

BigErik said:


> again I've mentioned before that I'm not well off so it's like an overall value thing for me still getting tips and such and couple of cases to maybe have some nice on my table or something you know. Plus it's my friend's store and he's a reviewer also so he's good to me but thank you for the feedback take care Erik



Fair enough Erik.


----------



## BigErik

trumpethead said:


> I have been fully refunded by Ebay for my two orders of the zs10 pro from the Aussie scammer.. I have been extremely lucky with orders from AliEx but its nice to have money back Guarentees from Ebay and Amazon for most issues... I guess it was truly too good to be true! Happy Holidays!!


It's so true I have to admit sometimes I use Amazon purposely and I don't mean to just like test a headphone I've never done that I just mean maybe something was a little off you know or like with some models I just wanted to get it quicker take care Erik


----------



## BigErik

TheVortex said:


> Fair enough Erik.


Thank you so much take care ErikPS don't forget I watch your reviews I subscribe to you dude I'm a fan of yours. I'm actually getting the zo4 and the zo5 at some point because of you.not that you gave them Raven stars but it's a decent bang for the buck for me also and I like the rubberized part of the 05 plus they've been like 17 and $16 lately delivered that's crazy. Thanks again Erik


----------



## BigErik

BigErik said:


> Thank you so much take care ErikPS don't forget I watch your reviews I subscribe to you dude I'm a fan of yours. I'm actually getting the zo4 and the zo5 at some point because of you.not that you gave them Raven stars but it's a decent bang for the buck for me also and I like the rubberized part of the 05 plus they've been like 17 and $16 lately delivered that's crazy. Thanks again Erik


You are vortex from YouTube right that does the reviews? I just thought of that maybe you just have the same name with the in front of it. If so I'm sorry I thought you were him.


----------



## TheVortex

BigErik said:


> You are vortex from YouTube right that does the reviews? I just thought of that maybe you just have the same name with the in front of it. If so I'm sorry I thought you were him.



I am indeed the one from Youtube. The Z05A is decent but at that price the Blon BL01 and Tin T1 Plus are my recommendations.   Cheers for the support.


----------



## BigErik

TheVortex said:


> I am indeed the one from Youtube. The Z05A is decent but at that price the Blon BL01 and Tin T1 Plus are my recommendations.   Cheers for the support.


I know I mentioned this before I'm pretty sure. Very good take care Erik


----------



## BigErik

Podster said:


> That change and especially tips goes double for these babies since so many have fitment issues but they can be overcome. I needed just a hair more length in my nozzles to get the perfect depth and seal as seen in the photo 2 showing the black tip sleeve I cut for my extension that did the trick 4 me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sorry when you say the seven you mean the ks7 that came after the ks6 ks5 two versions of the five. And you loved it more than the six. I have to try it I have to get one then. Could you please let me know thank you Erik PS cuz I thought the five was pretty damn good the six was great and somehow I missed the seven and ended up past it. It's almost a ghost the 7,  like did it really exist!!thx


----------



## BigErik

TheVortex said:


> I am indeed the one from Youtube. The Z05A is decent but at that price the Blon BL01 and Tin T1 Plus are my recommendations.   Cheers for the support.


Awesome yeah I figured it was you again I got the 01. Which for me is funny because people couldn't fit the old three and I had no problems with it but I can't fit the 01.and I could definitely see me talking towards the t1 plus I don't have it I do like beryllium usually. Goes on my Tin collection. LOL but thanks buddy I seriously will consider it. See I watched your shows man.


----------



## wopossum

TheVortex said:


> I am indeed the one from Youtube. The Z05A is decent but at that price the Blon BL01 and Tin T1 Plus are my recommendations.  Cheers for the support.



Oh, it's you! Good reviews!


----------



## TheVortex

wopossum said:


> Oh, it's you! Good reviews!



Thanks!


----------



## Slater

Picked up a pair of Z1 on Amazon Warehouse really cheap. I intend to do some various mods, including hard wiring them. But I had to test them out as their normal TWS to make sure the drivers were OK, in case they were defective I could send them back.

Anyways, holy basshead these things are deep hitting! It’s like having a 15” subwoofer on tap when called upon. Why on earth isn’t KZ using this XUN driver on some wired models? It has a lot of potential.


----------



## artatgray

Hello!

I received my ASX 3 days ago now and I still have mixed feelings about it. Out of the box the experience is not great: KZ went too conservative with the treble and overemphasized the bass with the tuning.

Perhaps they've toned down the treble in response to a common criticism I've read of their offerings. And, I suspect they boosted the bass in response to the criticism that BA's don't present the impact of a DD. However, in both instances they've overcompensated with the ASX.

All is not lost, though, as EQ levels them rather nicely. I do highly recommend the following, which, of course, can be adjusted to taste:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASX

Honestly, at this point I'm actually considering selling them, not because they're awful, but because they're not as good as they should be at this price. The ZAX, their current hybrid flagship, best them easily. Granted I EQed my ZAX as well after receiving it, but the adjustments are nowhere near as pronounced as those used to retune the ASX.


----------



## PhonoPhi

artatgray said:


> Hello!
> 
> I received my ASX 3 days ago now and I still have mixed feelings about it. Out of the box the experience is not great: KZ went too conservative with the treble and overemphasized the bass with the tuning.
> 
> ...


KZ just had to use the wide nozzles - extends the treble, evens the bass & no more pronounced dip to mids.
Hopefully, in the next iteration, similar to CA16/ZAX.
This new KZ bass BA driver is better than Knowles and Sonion to my ears.


----------



## saldsald

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ just had to use the wide nozzles - extends the treble, evens the bass & no more pronounced dip to mids.
> Hopefully, in the next iteration, similar to CA16/ZAX.
> This new KZ bass BA driver is better than Knowles and Sonion to my ears.


I think the main problem to me with the ASX is the overly forward mids which bring muddiness. The treble is quite detailed and non-fatiguing. Also I find them lacking emotion in general so I gave up and sold them.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ just had to use the wide nozzles - extends the treble, evens the bass & no more pronounced dip to mids.
> Hopefully, in the next iteration, similar to CA16/ZAX.
> This new KZ bass BA driver is better than Knowles and Sonion to my ears.



An interesting coincidence with Fiio's new single DD iem with interchangeable nozzles.
FiiO's tuner seems to concur with your observations.
A completely different technology (and price) yet the same results!

@PhonePhi - Good job channeling Master Slater trapped in real life.


----------



## artatgray

saldsald said:


> I think the main problem to me with the ASX is the overly forward mids which bring muddiness.



Around 2Khz to ~2.5KHz is too forward, every measurement and corrective EQ profile I've encountered verifies that. My own corrections knock it down by -4dB to as much as -6dB, which isn't insignificant. However, 500Hz up to ~1.2KHz is definitely recessed and it's noticeable. Vocal appear in the background on recordings where they're normally forward.




PhonoPhi said:


> KZ just had to use the wide nozzles



If it weren't for a little bit, I'd attempt to modify mine with a wide nozzle. How difficult of a process was it?


----------



## PhonoPhi

artatgray said:


> Around 2Khz to ~2.5KHz is too forward, every measurement and corrective EQ profile I've encountered verifies that. My own corrections knock it down by -4dB to as much as -6dB, which isn't insignificant. However, 500Hz up to ~1.2KHz is definitely recessed and it's noticeable. Vocal appear in the background on recordings where they're normally forward.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The process is not that hard (in a retrospective, and with the good modification from this forum).
It takes some physical strength to take the nozzles from ASX by rocking them around and pulling.
Then the wider nozzles (from KZ at least) need to be filed or sanded to fit (I force-fitted mine - not the best idea - microcracks, and I am not now risking to take them out).


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> Picked up a pair of Z1 on Amazon Warehouse really cheap. I intend to do some various mods, including hard wiring them. But I had to test them out as their normal TWS to make sure the drivers were OK, in case they were defective I could send them back.
> 
> Anyways, holy basshead these things are deep hitting! It’s like having a 15” subwoofer on tap when called upon. Why on earth isn’t KZ using this XUN driver on some wired models? It has a lot of potential.


Very good question. I'd seriously consider this XUN driver in a wired model. C'mon KZ! BRING IT!


----------



## courierdriver

artatgray said:


> Hello!
> 
> I received my ASX 3 days ago now and I still have mixed feelings about it. Out of the box the experience is not great: KZ went too conservative with the treble and overemphasized the bass with the tuning.
> 
> ...


Yeah, ZAX is still high on my radar.


----------



## wopossum

purplesun said:


> An interesting coincidence with Fiio's new single DD iem with interchangeable nozzles.
> FiiO's tuner seems to concur with your observations.
> A completely different technology (and price) yet the same results!



Nice tech! KZ may "borrow" this as well haha.


----------



## PhonoPhi

wopossum said:


> Nice tech! KZ may "borrow" this as well haha.


I am not sure who would be borrowing really: KZ is producing IEMs for many ears, while I am not sure how much IEM development Fiio actually has.


purplesun said:


> An interesting coincidence with Fiio's new single DD iem with interchangeable nozzles.
> FiiO's tuner seems to concur with your observations.
> A completely different technology (and price) yet the same results!
> 
> @PhonePhi - Good job channeling Master Slater trapped in real life.


I have a bit experience as a clarinet technician and amateur acoustician . With clarinets not only the tiniest changes of the reeds and mouthpieces matter, but also the barrel geometry affect the sound greatly - not only  the diameter, but the tapering, with the abrupt disruptions in geometry resulting in significant effects on sound.
The narrow nozzles of ASX are exactly the case of abrupt narrowings, plus the BA sound guides seem to be firing at least partially into the edges of the narrow nozzles that likely causes multiple reflections and sound filtering through constructive and destructive interference.


----------



## purplesun (Dec 18, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I have a bit experience as a clarinet technician and amateur acoustician . With clarinets not only the tiniest changes of the reeds and mouthpieces matter, but also the barrel geometry affect the sound greatly - not only  the diameter, but the tapering, with the abrupt disruptions in geometry resulting in significant effects on sound.
> The narrow nozzles of ASX are exactly the case of abrupt narrowings, plus the BA sound guides seem to be firing at least partially into the edges of the narrow nozzles that likely causes multiple reflections and sound filtering through constructive and destructive interference.


Yeah, I had also suspected (with zero evidence) that the newer sound guide design with KZ's recent ba offerings may be over-complicating things. It's already difficult enough designing/making those tiny crossovers - add in the new sound guide design and hand assembly with plastic housings - it's just tempting QC fate. Again, it's just my speculation. I wish KZ/CCA would get back to simpler designs (just fire the BAs into a big hole or 3 big holes, at most) with improved ba performance from bellsing or cheaper knowles. But I must say I am quite intrigued by their move to the 3 DD iem. That may be my first KZ/CCA iem of 2021!


----------



## Slater (Dec 18, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I am not sure who would be borrowing really: KZ is producing IEMs for many ears, while I am not sure how much IEM development Fiio actually has.
> 
> I have a bit experience as a clarinet technician and amateur acoustician . With clarinets not only the tiniest changes of the reeds and mouthpieces matter, but also the barrel geometry affect the sound greatly - not only  the diameter, but the tapering, with the abrupt disruptions in geometry resulting in significant effects on sound.
> The narrow nozzles of ASX are exactly the case of abrupt narrowings, plus the BA sound guides seem to be firing at least partially into the edges of the narrow nozzles that likely causes multiple reflections and sound filtering through constructive and destructive interference.



You are exactly right. Every little change affects sound tuning.

The volume behind the driver, the volume in front of the driver, the size of the front and rear vents, the size and dampening of the driver vents, distance of the driver from the nozzle, the diameter and length of the sound tube, diameter and length of the nozzle, size and shape of the tips, sharp turns, radiuses of edges, driver materials, driver impedance and sensitivity, shell material, etc etc.

The list goes on and on to include an almost infinite number of variables.

Think of it like a big machine with hundreds of dials and switches. Every dial you turn or switch you flip changes something, for the better or worse. Some combinations are terrible, others great. Some make some things better but other things worse. Some switches affect other dials and vice versa, but you don’t always realize what affects what.



Look at the Blon BL03. On accident, they created lightning in a bottle, but they aren’t sure exactly what combination of dials and switches created it. So now they have to make an improved model, but since they weren’t really sure what dials and switches created the magic the first time, you’re honestly sorta guessing in the dark from that point on. The proof is the BL05, BL05S, BL01, etc.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 18, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I have a bit experience as a clarinet technician and amateur acoustician . With clarinets not only the tiniest changes of the reeds and mouthpieces matter, but also the barrel geometry affect the sound greatly - not only  the diameter, but the tapering, with the abrupt disruptions in geometry resulting in significant effects on sound.
> The narrow nozzles of ASX are exactly the case of abrupt narrowings, plus the BA sound guides seem to be firing at least partially into the edges of the narrow nozzles that likely causes multiple reflections and sound filtering through constructive and destructive interference.





Slater said:


> You are exactly right. Every little change affects sound tuning.
> 
> The volume behind the driver, the volume in front of the driver, the size of the front and rear vents, the size and dampening of the driver vents, distance of the driver from the nozzle, the diameter and length of the sound tube, diameter and length of the nozzle, size and shape of the tips, sharp turns, radiuses of edges, driver materials, driver impedance and sensitivity, shell material, etc etc.
> 
> ...




Agreed.

When I consider the absurd number of in-ears that I own and the fact that not one of the different models sounds exactly like another model even if two models share the same drivers (ZSR vs ED16 for example)

well, let's just say that you eventually figure out that the whole "*new model*" thing could go on for decades by simply changing the housing/shell and its design (nozzle width/length, etc.).

Considering that I have a large collection of both neutral and *fun *sounding in-ears, I'll be focusing my purchases on what I consider to be interesting designs that could offer up something different and exciting. Sometimes you'll get a dud but sometimes you'll be stunned and pleasantly surprised at what's on offer.










Speaking of interesting, KZ finally released images of the DQ6 set up.






The narrow nozzle may turn out to be cause for concern but I'm excited that they took the time to properly design an acoustic structure for the micro dynamic drivers (6mm).






I'm also happy to see that they will be offered in more than one color.




One silver and two black DQ6 for me. One of the black DQ6 will be modified with a gold colored wide nozzle  (pulled from an inexpensive KZ model) to see how the sound signature improves or worsens. So, one black DQ6 will be stock and the gold nozzle DQ6 will be the modified one.



Spoiler



narrow vs wide nozzles







The QDC Dmagic took a similar approach with an acoustic structure


Spoiler










as did the Unique Melody 3DT.


Spoiler










The most interesting differences are that Unique Melody chose to use their 7mm dynamics for bass response and their 10mm for the upper frequencies. The DQ6 will use the 10mm for bass response and 6mm drivers for upper frequencies.


DQ6






It looks like QDC is quite tight lipped about their patented structure and its set-up.






Another interesting tidbit is that the DQ6 has an impedance of 24 ohms while the QDC has an impedance of 13.5 ohms so source should play a larger role in the *Dmagic* presentation.



Spoiler















The long and short of it is  Merry Christmas to me with the DQ6 and aftermarket cables I'll be getting for them at a little over $100 total (three DQ6 and two cables).


----------



## PhonoPhi

Alpha Whale said:


> Agreed.
> 
> When I consider the absurd number of in-ears that I own and the fact that not one of the different models sounds exactly like another model even if two models share the same drivers (ZSR vs ED16 for example)
> 
> ...


My favourite cable 
The best colours in a good reasonably priced cable, in my opinion.
The only cable that I have two copies.

DQ6 can be fun - the narrow nozzle may work better for the synergy of three powerful DDs rather than for BAs with narrow sound guides. 

BA10 are the beauty in their shell, and still the capable contender, as long as one have suitably rectangular ears 

Sometimes I feel that KZ do not do the best IEMs just out of their kind heart - not to totally eliminate competition and not to frustrate the reviewers relying on KZ for comparison of the reviewed IEMs


----------



## purplesun

Alpha Whale said:


> Speaking of interesting, KZ finally released images of the DQ6 set up.
> 
> The narrow nozzle may turn out to be cause for concern but I'm excited that they took the time to properly design an acoustic structure for the micro dynamic drivers (6mm).
> 
> ...



DQ6 looks really nice. Hope it's KZ's answer to rivals with fancy new single DDs with alien coatings.
Is that the XUN bass DD that everyone talks about?
And, of course, no worries about the nozzles, we have PhonePhi Custom Mods tuning it like a world-class wind instrument!


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> Is that the XUN bass DD that everyone talks about?



Yup!


----------



## jant71

So, if the single driver has "insufficient high frequency" then a second next to it does what exactly?


----------



## MacAttack7

artatgray said:


> Hello!
> 
> I received my ASX 3 days ago now and I still have mixed feelings about it. Out of the box the experience is not great: KZ went too conservative with the treble and overemphasized the bass with the tuning.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should have gone with the less expensive ASF. They sound great!

Although one of the reviewers I follow on YouTube preferred the ASX over the ASF.
He gave the ASX his absolute highest rating of A+ for both Sound Rating and Value Rating.
I ordered a 2nd ASF for a backup pair.

I wonder how reliable all of the drivers are when you are talking 20 drivers. 
So many mixed opinions makes me things aren't consistent but maybe it's just user preference and fit.


----------



## purplesun (Dec 18, 2020)

jant71 said:


> So, if the single driver has "insufficient high frequency" then a second next to it does what exactly?


Insufficient sound volume to match the bass unit's sound volume. Adding extra matching unit increases the dynamic range by 3db.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> So, if the single driver has "insufficient high frequency" then a second next to it does what exactly?


In the speaker world, doubling the speaker generally gives more throw, coverage and of course increase in the decibel aka volume so each speaker doesn't have to work as hard. Then there is problem with comb filtering, phasing, etc that needs to be addressed and so on. But in general more speaker playing the same stuff = increase in decibel. So I am not really sure what the usage of 2 DD playing the same frequency in an IEM as the distance between the driver to the eardrum is extremely close.


----------



## Alpha Whale

PhonoPhi said:


> My favourite cable
> The best colours in a good reasonably priced cable, in my opinion.
> The only cable that I have two copies.
> 
> ...



Usually, for my ears, narrow nozzles accentuate the midrange and push vocals slightly forward. If the stock DQ6 delivers smooth but detailed vocals that are slightly forward I'll be a happy camper - as long as said vocals are not strident/shouty.

Personally, I find the BA10 and the ASF to be the most handsome in-ears they make.
I still take a longing glance at the ASF every time before I insert them. Just beautifully done if you ask me. 




jant71 said:


> So, if the single driver has "insufficient high frequency" then a second next to it does what exactly?





purplesun said:


> Insufficient sound volume to match the bass unit's sound volume. Adding extra matching unit increases the dynamic range by 3db.





voicemaster said:


> In the speaker world, doubling the speaker generally gives more throw, coverage and of course increase in the decibel aka volume so each speaker doesn't have to work as hard. Then there is problem with comb filtering, phasing, etc that needs to be addressed and so on. But in general more speaker playing the same stuff = increase in decibel. So I am not really sure what the usage of 2 DD playing the same frequency in an IEM as the distance between the driver to the eardrum is extremely close.



Don't know if the DQ6 has a two-way or three-way crossover but their description (physical frequency division) and the promotional image seem to support a two-way







whereas the QDC states "3 frequency division with two-way sound channels.





I'm just looking forward to hearing what they've come up with. 

and for $25, folks.


----------



## KaworuIIDX

They should really drop that shell...


----------



## artatgray

MacAttack7 said:


> Maybe you should have gone with the less expensive ASF. They sound great!



No.


----------



## requal

Today I have chance to compare KZ BA latest products with my old best KZ BA10. 
I have BA10 from few months, and I like how they sounds, for me those were better then Shouer Tape, Oriolus Finschi and few others. 
So I'll share some quick impressions: 

Kz Asx
* Most v-shape like signature
* Highest and widest soundstage
* Best instrument placement in 3D
* Cleanest sound, bold and without coloration
* Good vocal clarity
* Sub-bass is more pronounced, hits hardest, sub-bass is more dominant than mid-bass
* It's harder to find good tips for them to loose technical flaws, but it's possible
* Sound's better with copper cable which gives fullness of sound

Ba10 
* More mid-cectric then Asx
* Engaging, fun, somewhat coloured
* Softer sound and less technical
*Mid-bass concentration gives feeling of cohesion with mids
* Sounds better with SPC cable which gives better clarity to them
* Not as technically good, as Asx and Asf, not as clean, and not as holographic stage
* Sound is more from backward

Asf
* Most cohessivity and fullness in sound
* Less "v" than Asx, quite like L-shape sound presentation
* Cleaner then BA10, vocals are bolder and even closer
* Pleasing sound
* Most bassy 
* Good instrument placement
* Same good spc and copper cables
* Not as technically good as Asx, it's sound like less ba set, with less separation, and dimensions of soundstage


** I didn't hear added sibilance in any set.

Summary:

I can't say for sure which one is the best for somebody cuz it depends to preferences, but If I had to choose one, I would choose ASX.. Its sound is like something from higher class then two others. I need also some more time to longer listening.. Saddly I haven't AudioSense T800 no longer, because I had problem with ba bass imbalance and I gived them for free to somebody, it would be good to compare. 

Many drivers here.. :


----------



## trumpethead

BigErik said:


> I'm sorry when you say the seven you mean the ks7 that came after the ks6 ks5 two versions of the five. And you loved it more than the six. I have to try it I have to get one then. Could you please let me know thank you Erik PS cuz I thought the five was pretty damn good the six was great and somehow I missed the seven and ended up past it. It's almost a ghost the 7,  like did it really exist!!thx


I Love all of my KZ KS kids equally but Ks7 is my Favorite, then Ks5V1, Then KS6 whom I love but wouldn't be mad if I left it at the grocery store or on the bus... Lol lol


----------



## Slater

trumpethead said:


> I Love all of my KZ KS kids equally but Ks7 is my Favorite, then Ks5V1, Then KS6 whom I love but wouldn't be mad if I left it at the grocery store or on the bus... Lol lol



Cherish your ZS7 friend. It’s no longer available. Luckily I picked up a backup set before they were gone forever.


----------



## trumpethead

Slater said:


> Cherish your ZS7 friend. It’s no longer available. Luckily I picked up a backup set before they were gone forever.


Yes Sir, there is something uniquely Unique about the 7...sootb I knew it was Special...


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> Cherish your ZS7 friend. It’s no longer available. Luckily I picked up a backup set before they were gone forever.


Could this help?

https://gbr.grandado.com/products/k...s10-zst-ed16-for-sport?variant=36783728558229


----------



## Slater

Nimweth said:


> Could this help?
> 
> https://gbr.grandado.com/products/k...s10-zst-ed16-for-sport?variant=36783728558229



Ive never heard of that website, but sure go for it!


----------



## purplesun

Quick question (again!) about 0.75mm vs 0.78mm pins.
Will some iems sockets put up a fight when the wrong pins are being used?
TIA.


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> Quick question (again!) about 0.75mm vs 0.78mm pins.
> Will some iems sockets put up a fight when the wrong pins are being used?
> TIA.


I got two pairs of 0.75 and 0.78 cables (paragraph B and C in KZ terms), I could not find the slightest difference  - either in noticing the difference visually or in terms of how these cables fit (ease of insertion, etc).
The tolerance of the manufacturing is likely more than the difference.

Enjoying my ASX in the last few days, really work great for my tastes


----------



## purplesun (Dec 20, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I got two pairs of 0.75 and 0.78 cables (paragraph B and C in KZ terms), I could not find the slightest difference  - either in noticing the difference visually or in terms of how these cables fit (ease of insertion, etc).
> The tolerance of the manufacturing is likely more than the difference.


Cheers!

BTW, @alphawhale's nice pictures made me order the DQ6! Will probably arrive next year, so first IEM for 2021 (The year of leaving the house, I hope!)


----------



## Podster (Dec 21, 2020)

"BTW, @alphawhale's nice pictures made me order the DQ6! Will probably arrive next year, so first IEM for 2021 (The year of leaving the house, I hope!)"

Funny how that happens around here eh @purplesun 

@trumpethead That bus thing and the 6's cut's me deep

All I can say @requal is my BA10 is the best sounding all BA I own and it just has such a natural timbre to it for my ears and really crushes my Yin (Who) HQ 12's


----------



## requal (Dec 21, 2020)

Podster said:


> All I can say @requal is my BA10 is the best sounding all BA I own and it just has such a natural timbre to it for my ears and really crushes my Yin (Who) HQ 12's


I had them from somebody who was very impressed by them. He bought them after release, but those was ridiculised by community, so he said only that he likes them a lot, and he goes silent, but meanwhile he was comparing them to new toys in pricerange, and another, and another.. as he said, he even wanned to compare them to Andro one time, (ofc Andro is technically better, but not necesery more pleasant), but he gave up to do it. I bought them from him after Nimweth dig it again. It's a keeper. Long story short, this was signal to me to check by my self new models also.


----------



## artatgray

artatgray said:


> All is not lost, though, as EQ levels them rather nicely. I do highly recommend the following, which, of course, can be adjusted to taste:
> 
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASX



After living with the ASX for a few more days now, I've decided to keep them. I find them to be quite good with EQ. Without it, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole, though... 🤔


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 21, 2020)

purplesun said:


> BTW, @alphawhale's nice pictures made me order the DQ6! Will probably arrive next year, so first IEM for 2021 (The year of leaving the house, I hope!)



Congrats on the incoming DQ6.

Thus far it looks like a handful of us will be able to provide DQ6 feedback for the community. You, me, PhonoPhi and I believe Slater. We'll post all of the good, the bad and the ugly, if there is any, right here for all to see.


Should be interesting, to say the least.





Podster said:


> @trumpethead That bus thing and the 6's cut's me deep
> 
> All I can say @requal is my BA10 is the best sounding all BA I own and it just has such a natural timbre to it for my ears and really crushes my Yin (Who) HQ 12's



Yeah, that ZS6 remark hit a nerve with me as well.  I still thinks it's a hugely entertaining in-ear. Like you, I have several ZS6v1.

Also a fan of the BA10. I've no issues whatsoever with the fit. The timbre is quite good for an all-BA model.

Truth be told,  the ASF timbre is better but the bass-forward/mid-forward sound signature isn't for everyone. Some folks designate the ASF as V-shaped which is incorrect to me since the treble is rolled off. They're very different from KZ's other hybrid/all-BA offerings. Nevertheless, I like them.

4 out of 5 stars is more than acceptable all things considered (cost, comfort, isolation and most importantly entertainment value).

I'll reiterate my thoughts that KZ absolutely needs to put those "s" model BAs to use by tuning a smooth and mild W-shaped sound signature in-ear and perhaps a few other models that cater to different preferences. 

To my ears, the "s" model BAs have better timbre and they've eliminated a portion of the colder nature typical of BAs.






It would be an absolute shame if KZ abandoned the use of the "s" model BAs due to the uneven backlash on the ASF/ASX feedback.

The ASF sounds awful on recordings like this


but it's the recording. I listened to this track with half a dozen in-ears. Some faired better than others but the track sounds abysmal on the ASF. It sounds as though I'm listening to the track with a set of damaged dynamic drivers.

Then I loaded this track.


Either the recording equipment was far better or the recording engineer had a lot more talent. The quality of the production with this recording is miles ahead and it sounds so lifelike on the ASF.

Night and day folks. Night and day.
Again, it's a good 4/5 earphone.

No complaints from me.






requal said:


> I had them from somebody who was very impressed by them. He bought them after release, but those was ridiculised by community, so he said only that he likes them a lot, and he goes silent, but meanwhile he was comparing them to new toys in pricerange, and another, and another.. as he said, he even wanned to compare them to Andro one time, (ofc Andro is technically better, but not necesery more pleasant), but he gave up to do it. I bought them from him after Nimweth dig it again. It's a keeper. Long story short, this was signal to me to check by my self new models also.



ALWAYS trust your own ears. Collect feedback from trusted sources and jump on it if you're feeling froggy. You can always sell or trade what doesn't work for you.

Getting educated about what you like and dislike will save you lots of $$$$ as you level up.





artatgray said:


> After living with the ASX for a few more days now, I've decided to keep them. I find them to be quite good with EQ. Without it, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole, though... 🤔



Please elaborate. The feedback is much appreciated.

Are they too bass forward for your tastes?
Is the treble too subdued for your tastes?
Which source are you using?

Thanks in advance



BTW, anyone willing to take one for the team with the CCA CKX?







In other news, I found it interesting that the *audioreviews *frequency response graph for the *TRI I3 *is very similar to the frequency response graph for the *AS12*.

I haven't heard the *TRI I3 *and other frequency response graphs do show more of a variation but the* AS12 *could be an interesting find if it gives you 85% - 90% of the* TRI I3 *presentation at half the price.

Does anyone here own both the* TRI I3 *and* AS12?*



Spoiler



Audio reviews







Phonograph




Crinacle




Audiofool


----------



## courierdriver

Alpha Whale said:


> Congrats on the incoming DQ6.
> 
> Thus far it looks like a handful of us will be able to provide DQ6 feedback for the community. You, me, PhonoPhi and I believe Slater. We'll post all of the good, the bad and the ugly if there is any right here for all to see.
> 
> ...



With regards to the Hall & Oats version of She's Gone...I totally concur. I listen to them at least once/week for an hour+. Much thanks for listing that original version by Tavares. I forgot their name, but that song was in my head and one I listened to often when I was just a young kid. Like you said though, the remake by H&O was better sounding.


----------



## purplesun (Dec 21, 2020)

Podster said:


> "BTW, @alphawhale's nice pictures made me order the DQ6! Will probably arrive next year, so first IEM for 2021 (The year of leaving the house, I hope!)"
> Funny how that happens around here eh @purplesun


After being dealt so many 12, 13 and 14 hands in a row - I figured it's about time KZ hits a 21! 
(PSA: Gambling is bad for you! And reading headfi reviews as well)


----------



## voicemaster

Alpha Whale said:


> Congrats on the incoming DQ6.
> 
> Thus far it looks like a handful of us will be able to provide DQ6 feedback for the community. You, me, PhonoPhi and I believe Slater. We'll post all of the good, the bad and the ugly if there is any right here for all to see.
> 
> ...



My DQ6 has just shipped so most likely it will arrive in January 2021.


----------



## Podster

Alpha Whale said:


> Congrats on the incoming DQ6.
> 
> Thus far it looks like a handful of us will be able to provide DQ6 feedback for the community. You, me, PhonoPhi and I believe Slater. We'll post all of the good, the bad and the ugly, if there is any, right here for all to see.
> 
> ...




Well in all fairness we are talking different decades, studios and equipment in and out! I can appreciate both for what they were, sure the Travares version sounds wonky but it has merit, just hard to compare with Darryl and Johns version really. Don't they know "S" is for Super


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 21, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> In other news, I found it interesting that the *audioreviews *frequency response graph for the *TRI I3 *is very similar to the frequency response graph for the *AS12*.
> 
> I haven't heard the *TRI I3 *and other frequency response graphs do show more of a variation but the* AS12 *could be an interesting find if it gives you 85% - 90% of the* TRI I3 *presentation at half the price.
> 
> ...



I haven't heard the KZ AS12 before, but my 2 cents is that graphs don't tell the full story and are just an indication of the frequency response. We can't tell some stuff like timbre, details, instrument separation, imaging etc from graphs alone. Plus these 2 sets use different drivers, the planars in the TRI I3 are quite a pain to drive, and TRI I3 has a DD bass, whereas the KZ AS12 is a pure BA setup. From my journey in CHIFI, even if the bass looks similar in graphs for a BA bass vs DD bass, the DD bass will generally have better decay, movement of air +/- subbass extension, but of course there are exceptions.


----------



## artatgray

Alpha Whale said:


> Are they too bass forward for your tastes?
> Is the treble too subdued for your tastes?
> Which source are you using?



I've already elaborated in my previous posts about them. As for the sources, those wouldn't be an issue as they all have adequate power to drive such a high sensitivity, low impedence IEM and are verified to be transparent.


----------



## saldsald (Dec 21, 2020)

Received my DQ6. The shape of the shell is slightly different compared to the ASX. Sold my ASX so I am not sure but I think the nozzles are different too. Also come with different tips. I like this face plate and overall the build quality is higher than the ASX. They definitely look pretty good!
Looking forward to test them out!

Edit: they are definitely shorter than the ASX. There is finally enough space to adjust the position in my ears. 
First impression: Very safe and smooth tuning with just enough resolution, stage size is ok but a bit 2d sounding, For $20, definitely a no-brainer.


----------



## purplesun (Dec 22, 2020)

I do not have a donor iem to use their nozzles as replacement for ASF's nozzles.

Hmmm..... I wonder?? (Straw O.D.= 4.6mm)


Tada! It just fit into the ASF holes - insert juvenile joke 


Tested for about 20 seconds, the bass now sounds less woolly and treble becomes more distinct.
I now need to find some glue, and decide how long I want the nozzles 

EDIT:
A thin strip of double-sided tape around the bottom edge of the straw and jam it into hole. Seems to stay put well enough.


----------



## requal (Dec 21, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> Also a fan of the BA10. I've no issues whatsoever with the fit. The timbre is quite good for an all-BA model.
> 
> Truth be told,  the ASF timbre is better but the bass-forward/mid-forward sound signature isn't for everyone. Some folks designate the ASF as V-shaped which is incorrect to me since the treble is rolled off. They're very different from KZ's other hybrid/all-BA offerings. Nevertheless, I like them.
> 
> ...


Yes, timbre is better on Asx and Asf, then in BA10, it is actually very good. On Asx is even better because highs are more pronounced.

Asf is as you described bassy and mid-forward, but with spc or pure silver cable sounds better, sadly still bassy. Same situation like with Whizzer Kylin, on stock accessories is unlistenable bass monster, with ps cable and better tips is quite good, ofc for me, I'm listening mostly EDM music so I can live with that.

For you much better option would be ASX, it is real detail monster, bass is also acceptable, with sub-bass accent is not dominating whole spectrum, definietly under control and not bleeding, mids are bit recesed, and very good detailed treble. Withs those engaging trebles sometimes I would even choose/prefer them over ISN H40.


----------



## saldsald (Dec 21, 2020)

saldsald said:


> Received my DQ6. The shape of the shell is slightly different compared to the ASX. Sold my ASX so I am not sure but I think the nozzles are different too. Also come with different tips. I like this face plate and overall the build quality is higher than the ASX. They definitely look pretty good!
> Looking forward to test them out!
> 
> Edit: they are definitely shorter than the ASX. There is finally enough space to adjust the position in my ears.
> First impression: Very safe and smooth tuning with just enough resolution, stage size is ok but a bit 2d sounding, For $20, definitely a no-brainer.



I really like this pair, especially for vocal, both gender! Well done KZ! I really wonder if KZ found out that the ASX/ASF shells are too large and made such adjustment with the DQ6. So much more comfortable to wear.


----------



## MacAttack7

saldsald said:


> Received my DQ6. The shape of the shell is slightly different compared to the ASX. Sold my ASX so I am not sure but I think the nozzles are different too. Also come with different tips. I like this face plate and overall the build quality is higher than the ASX. They definitely look pretty good!
> Looking forward to test them out!
> 
> Edit: they are definitely shorter than the ASX. There is finally enough space to adjust the position in my ears.
> First impression: Very safe and smooth tuning with just enough resolution, stage size is ok but a bit 2d sounding, For $20, definitely a no-brainer.


Not sure if I want them to be 


saldsald said:


> I really like this pair, especially for vocal, both gender!


Mine still haven't shipped even though I ordered long ago. Some sites say it's still a pre-sale item. 
I hope the shorter length works out for me. I felt the short tips, usually used for wireless earphones, were just right for the ASF.
May have to go back to a traditional tip for the DQ6.

Is that an actual vent on the outside of the shell, or is that just for looks?
I was kind of hoping it wasn't an actual vent because I like high isolation.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Not sure if I want them to be
> 
> Mine still haven't shipped even though I ordered long ago. Some sites say it's still a pre-sale item.
> I hope the shorter length works out for me. I felt the short tips, usually used for wireless earphones, were just right for the ASF.
> ...


For high isolation you can't go wrong with Etymotics. Those triple flange tips will seal your ear good (and clean them too).


----------



## saldsald

MacAttack7 said:


> Not sure if I want them to be
> 
> Mine still haven't shipped even though I ordered long ago. Some sites say it's still a pre-sale item.
> I hope the shorter length works out for me. I felt the short tips, usually used for wireless earphones, were just right for the ASF.
> ...



I have really small ears and they sit perfectly in my ear!
The vents again are just for aesthetic just like the ZAX (they face plate is very similar to the ZAX) 

I always use JVC spirl dot / Sony eartips on all of my IEMs. Give them a try!


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> I really like this pair, especially for vocal, both gender! Well done KZ! I really wonder if KZ found out that the ASX/ASF shells are too large and made such adjustment with the DQ6. So much more comfortable to wear.


How do you get yours so fast? So the shell is probably the same size as ZSX? 
Oh well I still have BL01 coming hopefully tomorrow.


----------



## saldsald (Dec 22, 2020)

voicemaster said:


> How do you get yours so fast? So the shell is probably the same size as ZSX?
> Oh well I still have BL01 coming hopefully tomorrow.



simply becoz of where I live.  
No, the shell is not the same as the ZSX but maybe similar in dimensions.
I prefer the DQ6 over the BL-01 btw.

Edit: actually both DQ6 and BL-01 are quite good and the BL-01 may sound better with some tracks and vice versa. I now have a spreadsheet to tabulate which IEM synergizes which which DAP/Amp, one IEM may sound bad with one DAP/Amp but sounds wonderful with another.


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> simply becoz of where I live.
> No, the shell is not the same as the ZSX but maybe similar in dimensions.
> I prefer the DQ6 over the BL-01 btw.




For those interested in the size.


----------



## Aparker2005

How's the bass, treble, separation on those dq6? I keep wanting to try these and will be using them for small stage musical performances (if we can ever get back to them). I'm a drummer so obviously like a lot of bass. Thanks!


----------



## saldsald (Dec 22, 2020)

Aparker2005 said:


> How's the bass, treble, separation on those dq6? I keep wanting to try these and will be using them for small stage musical performances (if we can ever get back to them). I'm a drummer so obviously like a lot of bass. Thanks!



The separation is really good, much better than expected in fact and I hear no bass bleeding at all. The 3 DDs are tuned more as a whole rather, I hear good macro detail instead of micro detail so there is good coherence but slightly lacking the finest detail. The dynamic of these is also slightly below average and you hear everything more or less at similar volume. I think there is enough bass on this pair just not very well extended to the sub-bass region. Overall the bass is kind of similar to other KZ's DD drivers.  If you prefer a lot of bass I think the BQEYZ BQ3 or BL-01 would be a better choice (I have a few DAPs and desktop amps I think the DQ6 synergizes well with my Sony ZX507 and not as well as the others, the bass is really punchy and deep with Sony) so it really depends on your source sometimes but the other two might be safer choice.


----------



## baskingshark

Aparker2005 said:


> How's the bass, treble, separation on those dq6? I keep wanting to try these and will be using them for small stage musical performances (if we can ever get back to them). I'm a drummer so obviously like a lot of bass. Thanks!



I use IEMs for stage monitoring too and I would suggest that a set without venting (generally pure BA types) for better isolation is better for hearing protection. All BA sets also tend to have better technicalities than DD types at the budget segment.

The only issue is pure BA bass in general doesn't sound as natural as DD bass, in the area of subbass extension/bass decay and movement of air. But I guess if u are a drummer then a DD bass would probably still be better for u, so perhaps u can find a hybrid that combines a DD bass with some BAs handling the higher frequencies to get the best of both worlds.


----------



## RCracer777

Alpha Whale said:


> I'll reiterate my thoughts that KZ absolutely needs to put those "s" model BAs to use by tuning a smooth and mild W-shaped sound signature in-ear and perhaps a few other models that cater to different preferences.
> 
> To my ears, the "s" model BAs have better timbre and they've eliminated a portion of the colder nature typical of BAs.
> 
> ...


While I will admit that I've never used an IEM with these BA's, from what I've been reading on this forum I have an idea what KZ should to do next. 
Just like with the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, make a new ZS10 Pro with the XUN DD for it's technical prowess, replace the BA's with their "s" counterparts for their timbre and keep the shell for comfort with maybe a different face plate. Give it a similar tuning while taking advantage of the new drivers and call it the ZS10 Pro X or Pro XS or whatever.

But what do you guy's think?


----------



## Aparker2005

baskingshark said:


> I use IEMs for stage monitoring too and I would suggest that a set without venting (generally pure BA types) for better isolation is better for hearing protection. All BA sets also tend to have better technicalities than DD types at the budget segment.
> 
> The only issue is pure BA bass in general doesn't sound as natural as DD bass, in the area of subbass extension/bass decay and movement of air. But I guess if u are a drummer then a DD bass would probably still be better for u, so perhaps u can find a hybrid that combines a DD bass with some BAs handling the higher frequencies to get the best of both worlds.



I've currently got a set of Ultimate Ears UE5 Pro Customs, and CCA CA16s. I'm probably set, but was just interested in these. Thanks guys for the reply!


----------



## purplesun

saldsald said:


> For those interested in the size.


From that angle & colour, it makes me think that KZ re-introduced the ATE with detachable cable and added twin drivers to clean up the treble. Which, if they did, it wouldn't be a bad idea at all.


----------



## PhonoPhi

RCracer777 said:


> While I will admit that I've never used an IEM with these BA's, from what I've been reading on this forum I have an idea what KZ should to do next.
> Just like with the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, make a new ZS10 Pro with the XUN DD for it's technical prowess, replace the BA's with their "s" counterparts for their timbre and keep the shell for comfort with maybe a different face plate. Give it a similar tuning while taking advantage of the new drivers and call it the ZS10 Pro X or Pro XS or whatever.
> 
> But what do you guy's think?


Take ZS10 pro, put a better DD and people will love it?
No! That is exactly CCA C10 pro - far from universally loved here. Gone is the rich overpowering bass of ZS10 pro, and it is not the same any more...

XUN is also in ZSN pro X.
Do you hear much about it? No!
Mine is to be slaughtered to serve as a donor of the nozzles for ASX.
Is the DD driver capable? Yes, it can take equalizers very well (I do not use equalizers usually). Is the BA in the nozzle OK for me - yes; but then the combination does not offer much special somehow. My favourite of simple KZ/CCA hybrids is still CA4.

My question to ask KZ/CCA fans - what would you advise for a balanced 2.5 mm USB DAC.
I got Tempotec V1A as a transport and have Sonata HD pro (nice but feels a bit sterile compared to my ESS balanced DAC) and since all my cables are 2.5 balanced, it is easier to get a good balanced USB DAC.

Which one to get - older iBasso DC01,  Sonata  BHD, Hidisz S9? Or is there some ESS-based good balanced one?


----------



## purplesun (Dec 22, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> I got Tempotec V1A as a transport and have Sonata HD pro (nice but feels a bit sterile compared to my ESS balanced DAC) and since all my cables are 2.5 balanced, it is easier to get a good balanced USB DAC. Which one to get - older iBasso DC01,  Sonata  BHD, Hidisz S9? Or is there some ESS-based good balanced one?


I bought Qudelix 5K mostly because it had decent amping for a BT dongle - I think it's 4V out of 2.5mm port.. It uses dual ES9218P, but in USB DAC mode it's limited to 24/96. Otherwise it drives the KBear Believe (which can be source fussy) with a touch of warmth & bass punch.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> XUN is also in ZSN pro X.



Unless KZ changed something, the ZSN Pro X I have didn’t use the XUN.

Although it does use a new type of driver:


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> Unless KZ changed something, the ZSN Pro X I have didn’t use the XUN.
> 
> Although it does use a new type of driver:


What is the difference?
XUN definitely was listed for ZST X then purportedly removed (?)
Did they remove it altogether?
KZ was never into "explaining" things,  just doing


----------



## Slater (Dec 23, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> What is the difference?
> XUN definitely was listed for ZST X then purportedly removed (?)
> Did they remove it altogether?
> KZ was never into "explaining" things,  just doing



The XUN is always easy to spot because it has that patented turbo funnel looking thing on it.



It used to only come in the Z1.


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> The XUN is always easy to spot because it has that patented turbo funnel looking thing on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It used to only come in the Z1.




Still love my Z1 for my on the go (after simple mod and EQ), im not kidding, they have great bass. I told you they are pearls on disguise.
even i Have sony Z1R, I still think the Z1 bass is one of a kind in budget segment. Do simple sponge mod to tame peakiness on high mids, and EQ them to bring up mids and small adjustments to upper mids. The bass depth and punch is great.

and hello again all! so what did I miss these past 2 months? I've been away because lot of personal and family problem, still on recovery but hopefully can share experience again here in head-fi


----------



## Slater

DynamicEars said:


> Still love my Z1 for my on the go (after simple mod and EQ), im not kidding, they have great bass. I told you they are pearls on disguise.
> even i Have sony Z1R, I still think the Z1 bass is one of a kind in budget segment. Do simple sponge mod to tame peakiness on high mids, and EQ them to bring up mids and small adjustments to upper mids. The bass depth and punch is great.
> 
> and hello again all! so what did I miss these past 2 months? I've been away because lot of personal and family problem, still on recovery but hopefully can share experience again here in head-fi



Absolutely! You’re one of the reasons why I picked up a Z1 specifically to convert it to wired 

Nice to have you back. I hope things improve, and you experience peac. Only a few more days before this year is behind us!


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> Still love my Z1 for my on the go (after simple mod and EQ), im not kidding, they have great bass. I told you they are pearls on disguise.
> even i Have sony Z1R, I still think the Z1 bass is one of a kind in budget segment. Do simple sponge mod to tame peakiness on high mids, and EQ them to bring up mids and small adjustments to upper mids. The bass depth and punch is great.
> 
> and hello again all! so what did I miss these past 2 months? I've been away because lot of personal and family problem, still on recovery but hopefully can share experience again here in head-fi



Welcome back friend!

We missed your great advise and friendship here. I've learnt a lot of stuff in audio from you! Hope things are getting better and a new year is coming, hopefully we put the past behind and look forward to better things in 2021 (and more audio gear!).


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 23, 2020)

Podster said:


> Well in all fairness we are talking different decades, studios and equipment in and out! I can appreciate both for what they were, sure the Travares version sounds wonky but it has merit, just hard to compare with Darryl and Johns version really. Don't they know "S" is for Super



Yeah, both performances are fantastic. If I had to choose I do prefer the original but several mid '70s recordings I've heard from Capitol Records aren't as clean as some of the other labels. Of course I've not done extensive comparisons but the mild distortion and unusual resonance in several Capitol Records tracks definitely makes itself known on the ASF.



Spoiler










If my memory serves me correctly the Tavares are all Cape Verdean. I remember my time in Massachusetts and I definitely remember how stunningly beautiful my Cape Verdean girlfriend was back then. She had the whole Margot Robbie vibe going on but she was better looking with olive skin and green eyes.



Spoiler










Regarding those "s" model BAs, probably the best brain to pick for their characteristics would be PhonoPhi since he's swapped nozzles on his ASX. Perhaps the differences can be heard or compared now that his ASX nozzles are identical to nozzles of other KZ/CCA models. I know it's not that simple but maybe some of the "s" model BA characteristics can be more identifiable. 

I'll do some comparisons to confirm or deny my assertions about the "s" models when I've swapped nozzles as well.





Slater said:


> The XUN is always easy to spot because it has that patented turbo funnel looking thing on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It used to only come in the Z1.





You and *DynamicEars* just made my day Slater!


DQ6


----------



## RCracer777 (Dec 24, 2020)

PhonoPhi said:


> Take ZS10 pro, put a better DD and people will love it?
> No! That is exactly CCA C10 pro - far from universally loved here. Gone is the rich overpowering bass of ZS10 pro, and it is not the same any more...
> 
> XUN is also in ZSN pro X.
> ...


Not just replace the DD but also the BA's but I do get your point. If not executed perfectly it will lead to a lot of backlash of the community, and then you'd still have a lot of people preferring the old over the new.
Something similar happened with the Phillips Fidellio X2(HR) and the X3, although here the main complaint is the price as that one is a genuine improvement that builds on the X2. But taken in a different, more balanced direction as indicated by X*3*. People loved the X2(HR) for it's bass and complain that the X3 doesn't quite have the same bass in favor of a better mid range, it's almost as it's different headphone instead of another X2 rehash . But that is besides the point, some will love it some will hate it. That is the way of this hobby.
And I know I'm one of the few that liked the ZSN Pro X, although it doesn't hold a candle to the KBEAR Lark which doesn't cost that much more.

But allow me to rephrase the proposition.
New model using the XUN DD + 2/3 "s" type BA's in a ZS10/ZSN/ZAX shape body with a new face plate. Maybe without the BA in the nozzle.
Yes, there is a big chance that it will become another side grade in the KZ Hybrid lineup but it has a lot of potential if done correctly.


----------



## RCracer777 (Dec 23, 2020)

Slater said:


> The XUN is always easy to spot because it has that patented turbo funnel looking thing on it.
> 
> 
> 
> It used to only come in the Z1.


Now that I've taken a good look none of my ZSN Pro X, ZSX and ZAX carry the XUN driver. Really wish they would introduce the XUN in a hybrid or single DD wired set next year.


----------



## Slater

RCracer777 said:


> Now that I've taken a good look none of my ZSN Pro X, ZSX ans ZAX carry the XUN driver. Really wish they would introduce the XUN in a hybrid or single DD wired set next year.



Correct. Only the Z1 and DQ6 have it.


----------



## Damikiller37

Ordered the DQ6s. Figured it's time to try something else than my ZSNs.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

saldsald said:


> The separation is really good, much better than expected in fact and I hear no bass bleeding at all. The 3 DDs are tuned more as a whole rather, I hear good macro detail instead of micro detail so there is good coherence but slightly lacking the finest detail. The dynamic of these is also slightly below average and you hear everything more or less at similar volume. I think there is enough bass on this pair just not very well extended to the sub-bass region. Overall the bass is kind of similar to other KZ's DD drivers.  If you prefer a lot of bass I think the BQEYZ BQ3 or BL-01 would be a better choice (I have a few DAPs and desktop amps I think the DQ6 synergizes well with my Sony ZX507 and not as well as the others, the bass is really punchy and deep with Sony) so it really depends on your source sometimes but the other two might be safer choice.


Thank you. Can you say more about DQ6 treble?


----------



## trumpethead

DQ6 Ordered.. For 21 bucks how bad can they be


----------



## Tonymac136

trumpethead said:


> DQ6 Ordered.. For 21 bucks how bad can they be



I've done similar. Good to see KZ back on DDs.


----------



## IEMusic

How long before the DD driver wars start?  Can we cram 4-5 DDs in one IEM?🤔


----------



## saldsald (Dec 23, 2020)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Thank you. Can you say more about DQ6 treble?


I am a bit confused about the treble of the DQ6. The extension is about average but I still hear sibilance occasionally. There is in general a lack of sparkles due to the smooth tuning. Will listen more with my other DAPs, maybe will synergize better with a bright sounding DAP.

Additionally, it is harder to visualise the mouth shape of the singers with this pair due to the low dynamic range, if you get what I mean.


----------



## purplesun

saldsald said:


> Additionally, it is harder to visualise the mouth shape of the singers with this pair due to the low dynamic range, if you get what I mean.



Maybe they were all wearing masks and socially distanced.


----------



## PhonoPhi

purplesun said:


> Maybe they were all wearing masks and socially distanced.


Socially responsible tuning 

I have ordered the second pair of ASX to modify. I will try your nice straw trick.


----------



## purplesun

PhonoPhi said:


> I have ordered the second pair of ASX to modify. I will try your nice straw trick.


Better be quick - else militant metal straw activists will hunt you down for using plastic straws.
Personal Safety Note: I drink from the cup/mug, so please don't microwave my house!


----------



## saldsald (Dec 23, 2020)

saldsald said:


> I am a bit confused about the treble of the DQ6. The extension is about average but I still hear sibilance occasionally. There is in general a lack of sparkles due to the smooth tuning. Will listen more with my other DAPs, maybe will synergize better with a bright sounding DAP.
> 
> Additionally, it is harder to visualise the mouth shape of the singers with this pair due to the low dynamic range, if you get what I mean.



Yes, definitely will benefit from pairing with a brighter sounding DAP/source for more extension and air.


----------



## regancipher

My review on the SA08


----------



## stook2001 (Dec 24, 2020)

Hi Folks,
Let me preface this with sincere apologies for not making a more concerted effort to get through this thread.  I just learned of KZ (am KZ curious, if you will) and was hoping to get a quick primer or, perhaps, just some preliminary tips on what to search out. 

I bought a bunch of true wireless IEMs recently to demo and, honestly, came away feeling like the SQ was decent but a bit hard to justify the spendiness.  Then I stumbled upon a reference to the ZS10 Pro and the KZ bluetooth cables.  Seems like something along these lines might be a better option.  Could someone offer a little guidance on where to start, ie. which are the better models and the sound signatures for each?  I will be primarily using this setup with an iphone 12 and windows laptop.


----------



## voicemaster

stook2001 said:


> Hi Folks,
> Let me preface this with sincere apologies for not making a more concerted effort to get through this thread.  I just learned of KZ (am KZ curious, if you will) and was hoping to get a quick primer or, perhaps, just some preliminary tips on what to search out.
> 
> I bought a bunch of true wireless IEMs recently to demo and, honestly, came away feeling like the SQ was decent but a bit hard to justify the spendiness.  Then I stumbled upon a reference to the ZS10 Pro and the KZ bluetooth cables.  Seems like something along these lines might be a better option.  Could someone offer a little guidance on where to start, ie. which are the better models and the sound signatures for each?  I will be primarily using this setup with an iphone 12 and windows laptop.


Kz ZAX paired with TRN BT20s pro will stomp any TWS out there in sound quality, just not in ANC and ambiance mode.


----------



## stook2001

voicemaster said:


> Kz ZAX paired with TRN BT20s pro will stomp any TWS out there in sound quality, just not in ANC and ambiance mode.



Thanks for replying.  ANC and ambiance modes are not important to me.  

By the way, is Amazon a reliable source for this type of equipment?  I like the free return options but it looks like some of these items appear to be listed multiple times on amazon with different vendors, etc.


----------



## voicemaster

stook2001 said:


> Thanks for replying.  ANC and ambiance modes are not important to me.
> 
> By the way, is Amazon a reliable source for this type of equipment?  I like the free return options but it looks like some of these items appear to be listed multiple times on amazon with different vendors, etc.


Yes, I almost always ordered from Amazon whenever I can. It may not be the cheapest, but the no questions asked return is pretty nice.


----------



## IEMusic

stook2001 said:


> Thanks for replying.  ANC and ambiance modes are not important to me.
> 
> By the way, is Amazon a reliable source for this type of equipment?  I like the free return options but it looks like some of these items appear to be listed multiple times on amazon with different vendors, etc.


Amazon is a great place to buy KZ items from, just not necessarily the cheapest.  Linsoul is one of the retailers that sells Chi-Fi items through Amazon, and is reputable.   Honestly though, as long as the product is “fulfilled by Amazon” you’re good, should a return be needed.

A year from now (or less), you’ll probably own a dozen pairs of KZ IEMs.


----------



## Emre9110

Hi everyone,

I am looking forward to buy a BT module to my ED16. I have lots of online meetings through Skype or Teams and i will use it together with my laptop and Oneplus 7 which has APTX-HD support.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001295911238.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.b9533c00uqolUa&mp=1

This can be good option for me.

But nowadays TWS headphones are most popular.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001026923971.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.b9533c00uqolUa&mp=1

This has very good microphone performance. But i am not sure which one i should buy.

BT module or seperate TWS headphone. Which one has good microphone quality ?


----------



## voicemaster

Emre9110 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am looking forward to buy a BT module to my ED16. I have lots of online meetings through Skype or Teams and i will use it together with my laptop and Oneplus 7 which has APTX-HD support.
> 
> ...


It depends on where are you going to use it for calling. If you are mostly using it at home or office with not much surrounding noise, the BT module might suffice. But, if you are in a noisy place (supermarket, train, bus, etc) the TWS will most likely have better ambient noise cancellation. Most BT module doesn't have CVC and also less microphone (1 each side at most) while a good call quality TWS will have 4 or more microphones total.


----------



## Emre9110

voicemaster said:


> It depends on where are you going to use it for calling. If you are mostly using it at home or office with not much surrounding noise, the BT module might suffice. But, if you are in a noisy place (supermarket, train, bus, etc) the TWS will most likely have better ambient noise cancellation. Most BT module doesn't have CVC and also less microphone (1 each side at most) while a good call quality TWS will have 4 or more microphones total.



I will use that in at the office. My office is a open office, co-worker can hear each other easly. BT Module has 1 mic but it is closer to your mouth than TWSs. I gues i will order BT module :


----------



## voicemaster

Emre9110 said:


> I will use that in at the office. My office is a open office, co-worker can hear each other easly. BT Module has 1 mic but it is closer to your mouth than TWSs. I gues i will order BT module :


Oh and most BT module has worse microphone. It just "well we have microphone at least" kind of thing unlike TWS which are more emphasized on calling.


----------



## Mouseman

Emre9110 said:


> I will use that in at the office. My office is a open office, co-worker can hear each other easly. BT Module has 1 mic but it is closer to your mouth than TWSs. I gues i will order BT module :


I have both, and I'd suggest the TWS. They're more convenient, and as said above, the mic quality is a *lot better *as long as you get a pair that is well regarded for call quality. Most also have touch or button controls, which to me is more convenient and natural than fumbling around for the right button. 

The one positive for the BT module, depending on the one you get, is they can have better battery life. But that gap is mostly closed.


----------



## artatgray

What 3rd party eartips fit the ASX well? 🤔 

Thanks, and Happy Holidays... 🤘🏾🎅🏾🤘🏾


----------



## Gummybuns

artatgray said:


> What 3rd party eartips fit the ASX well



Final Type E, Azla short (regular/light), spinfit (not sure which series, I don't own one). Basically any 3.5 - 4.5 mm nozzle will do.


----------



## artatgray

Gummybuns said:


> Final Type E, Azla short (regular/light), spinfit (not sure which series, I don't own one). Basically any 3.5 - 4.5 mm nozzle will do.



Thanks... 🤘🏾😎🤘🏾


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 26, 2020)

I got rid of all my KZ's and am keeping the CCA C10, which I guess isn't a KZ.


----------



## sebek (Dec 26, 2020)

I spent the last month with Blon BL-03 and TRI I3, yesterday I resumed KZ ZS10 Pro for whim and I'm having a lot of fun, with fast and aggressive music. IEM underrated, unjustly disgraced.


----------



## Yasin Caliskan

sebek said:


> I spent the last month with Blon BL-03 and TRI I3, yesterday I resumed KZ ZS10 Pro for whim and I'm having a lot of fun, with fast and aggressive music. IEM underrated, unjustly disgraced.



Zs10 Pro could and should be the last iem they developed. Somebody tell this guys that driver number is not important.


----------



## wopossum

Yasin Caliskan said:


> Somebody tell this guys that driver number is not important.



Just ten more drivers per each earphone and they're done. Probably.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 26, 2020)

Contrary to some opinions above, I am really happy to see KZ continue making IEMs.

To many BA10, ZS7, ZS10 pro, ZSX, ZAX are very enjoyable.

I personally do appreciate KZ's relentless drive, and in all my experience, I would rather get a top KZ then some mid- or low-tier of some other companies.

I was lucky that modified ASX do everything for me - it is my bass-head IEM with competent mids and nice extended treble.
AS16 are appreciated for their lean treble-rich but relatively balanced signature.
C16 are great with their lush thick mids.
For the rich exaggerated treble, A10 are indispensable (I currently use KB10 incarnation).

ZAX and CA16 are really a nice complimentary hybrid pair for ~$100.

AS10 (and BA10) still get their listening time.
ZS10 pro are respected for their cheerful oomph.

Outside of KZ, S...r MT300 were really a great find for under $75, very competitive with my top KZ (minus MMCX and no balanced cables...)
NX7 pro are quite nice as well, though in value **** can be even more fun for quite a bit less.
U4 from HiSenior are my great top midcentric pair, where the legendary Knowles ED-29689 really shine.
Blon 03 are my single DD with the organic timbre appreciated.

Happy New Year everyone, and enjoy your music!


----------



## purplesun (Dec 26, 2020)

For 2021, I hope KZ goes back to basics and produce great sounding IEMs for cheap prices - like what they did with ATE and their early hybrids. IMHO, it seems like the IEM market in china, this year, has moved upmarket with better sounding IEMs starting from around/near USD$100. This should leave the low-end market for  volume makers like KZ to clean up - if they can produce something with good quality sound in 2021.

I can still remember, years ago, the first time I put an ATE into my ears, "What the eff!" and "How much!?". Do it again, KZ/CCA!


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Yasin Caliskan said:


> Zs10 Pro could and should be the last iem they developed. Somebody tell this guys that driver number is not important.


I take it the zs10 is your favorite by kz then?


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 26, 2020)

regancipher said:


> My review on the SA08



Interesting read. Thanks for posting.

I typically don't do TWS but I figure I better get a set of the Z1 before they disappear.
There should still be time for me to pick up the SA08 early next year if I'd like to try another TWS.










PhonoPhi said:


> Contrary to some opinions above, I am really happy to see KZ continue making IEMs.
> 
> To many BA10, ZS7, ZS10 pro, ZSX, ZAX are very enjoyable.
> 
> ...



Looks like we are on the same page. I like it when people attempt to make something I might enjoy using. I'm having a grand ol' time with the BA10, ZS6 v1, ZSR v1 and AS12.

The BA10 is one of the best for a laid back session.
The ZS6 v1 is one of the most entertaining sets for a "fun" session.
The ZSR v1 with its fantastic isolation and energetic sound signature is great for *on-the-go* use.
The AS12 seems to be able to check just about every box with my DAP.

Of course, now, I am waiting for the DQ6 to arrive.
I ordered one silver and one black with an upgrade cable for each DQ6.



Spoiler



Silver
















Black
















Considering the aforementioned models that I am currently enjoying, the incoming DQ6 and the Fiio Fh3 I'll be ordering soon, I know I don't *need* more in-ears but I'm having a blast and it's all _relatively_ inexpensive. Two sets of DQ6 with two cables was a total of $100.

I will be ordering a third DQ6 when a more recognizable vendor lists them on Amazon. Currently two vendors list the DQ6 on Amazon but one vendor has overpriced them in my opinion.

Speaking of gear that *I do not need*
Cowon has just announced their new D3.



Spoiler







Tap once. When it opens then double tap the image for the image to expand.






I definitely do not need another Plenue but every time Cowon releases a new Plenue model the prices drop on several of the existing models. The Plenue R was $600 upon its initial release.  Amazon currently has it listed for $239. I couldn't turn it down. I am very curious about the differences between the *Plenue 2* (AKM 4997EQ DAC), *Plenue D* (no DAC listed) and the *Plenue R* (PCM5242 DAC). I want to hear for myself the differences that reviewers say they hear.

I used to take, what could be considered to be, hyperbolic statements with a grain of salt but I definitely agree with Twister6 when he states:

*"I know that audiophile purists might not like the idea of DSP effects, but the quality of JetEffect 7 and how they transform even average quality headphones into TOTL sound quality can’t be dismissed. It’s a real deal."*

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cowon-plenue-r-all-round-player.855223/page-3


As I've mentioned before, BBE takes the AS12 to another level and I just can't imagine a better sounding all-BA set at anywhere near the $70 I paid for them. The only caveat is the BA timbre, which is why I want to try the DQ6 (DD timbre), but I'm not complaining because the AS12 is *almost* an endgame in-ear for me (with BBE enabled).

I played this track with BBE enabled on the AS12 and the bass is just jaw-dropping.
I honestly don't miss DD bass authority with this set up.



BTW, the ASF blew me away, too, with this track.
That bass was just full, deep and slammin'!




Spoiler











The AS12 has fantastic bass, a slightly forward midrange and restrained but well-extended treble. The BBE (blue line below) polishes the treble and gives the lower frequencies a clean fullness that just takes the AS12 up a few notches. I only use level one on BBE. It transforms the AS12 from being a very, very good in-ear to a truly remarkable listen. I can't seem to say enough good things about it.







The lowly Plenue D and the more premium Plenue 2 both work wonders on the AS12 (with BBE enabled).

If my DAP can level-up my *well-made but modestly priced* in-ears to the point that I don't need to spend thousands of dollars for that last 10% difference then, in my opinion, I'm not missing out on much.

That being said, word is out that the $129 *Fiio FH3* is better than the $250 *FH5* and the $400 *FH7*. I'm ordering the FH3 because I want to hear what some consider to be Fiio's best release to date at a fraction of the cost of Fiio's more expensive models?

My thoughts are as follows:

Keep going KZ!
Keep going Fiio!
Keep going Cowon!

I'm a happy patron.


Love my music and love this hobby.

It's affordable and it gets better month after month after month.

Looking forward to my next arrival.


----------



## courierdriver

sebek said:


> I spent the last month with Blon BL-03 and TRI I3, yesterday I resumed KZ ZS10 Pro for whim and I'm having a lot of fun, with fast and aggressive music. IEM underrated, unjustly disgraced.


I also love my ZS10 PRO. I also have the BL 03. Totally enjoy both. Imho, there's nothing disgracing about the ZS10 PRO. It just depends on the songs you listen to. That set though, works great with anything I've thrown at it. It's my "if you were on a desert island and could only have one" set. It's the set that I find works well with all the kinds of music I (personally) like and listen to most often.


----------



## purplesun

Alpha Whale said:


> Considering the aforementioned models that I am currently enjoying, the incoming DQ6 and the Fiio Fh3 I'll be ordering soon, I know I don't *need* more in-ears but I'm having a blast and it's all _relatively_ inexpensive. Two sets of DQ6 with two cables was a total of $100.


Make sure you order FH3 from somewhere with good return or exchange policy; there's some people who had to return theirs with loss of bass in 1 ear. If you are into balanced sound presentation, the FH3 will suit you well. With well-behaved and separated lows, mids and high, it's my favourite iem for this year. Make sure you have a good ear seal to experience it's unique bass style (laid back yet rumbles low down).


----------



## TheVortex

Looks like there is a revised variant of the TWS KZ Z1 now named the Z1 Pro.

Looks like a chipset improvement, better battery consumption and functionality but we will see when people actually get them and I never tried the original Z1.

KZ Official store link - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001887827924.html


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Alpha Whale said:


> As I've mentioned before, BBE takes the AS12 to another level and I just can't imagine a better sounding all-BA set at anywhere near the $70 I paid for them. The only caveat is the BA timbre, which is why I want to try the DQ6 (DD timbre), but I'm not complaining because the AS12 is *almost* an endgame in-ear for me (with BBE enabled).


True. The AS12 is the most engaging iem without being harsh, I've ever had.


----------



## hmscott

wopossum said:


> Just ten more drivers per each earphone and they're done. Probably.


Nah, they haven't even started putting drivers on the *outside* of the earpiece...


----------



## Slater

TheVortex said:


> Looks like there is a revised variant of the TWS KZ Z1 now named the Z1 Pro.
> 
> Looks like a chipset improvement, better battery consumption and functionality but we will see when people actually get them and I never tried the original Z1.
> 
> KZ Official store link - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001887827924.html



Looks interesting; nice find!

2 things I noticed:

The XUN seems to be gone, and replaced with a different driver. At least, this is the impression I got from the Z1 Pro marketing literature. This is unfortunate, because it was what made the original Z1 special.



The Z1 Pro battery life is still listed at 2 hours (same as the regular Z1):





Perhaps when using the Z1 Pro with a phone equipped with Bluetooth 5.2 (Qualcomm FastConnect 6700 and 6900), the battery life will be greater than 2 hours?


----------



## chinmie

TheVortex said:


> Looks like there is a revised variant of the TWS KZ Z1 now named the Z1 Pro.
> 
> Looks like a chipset improvement, better battery consumption and functionality but we will see when people actually get them and I never tried the original Z1.
> 
> KZ Official store link - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001887827924.html



only 2 hours of battery.. for me that really defeats the purpose of having a TWS factor in the first place...


----------



## Winni

Same battery life and no XUN driver? In this case I would stick with the regular Z1.


----------



## voicemaster

2 hours at probably 50% volume and "new". Battery degrade and I am not sure how good the quality of the battery on KZ tws, so 1 hour playing time is more realistic and become less and less as time goes by.


----------



## Tonymac136

voicemaster said:


> 2 hours at probably 50% volume and "new". Battery degrade and I am not sure how good the quality of the battery on KZ tws, so 1 hour playing time is more realistic and become less and less as time goes by.



My Z1s still produce nearly 2 hours at more like 80% volume. My S1s still charge and work but they're now with a friend so I can't say how good the battery life is. 

The Z1 is really good. It's good to see KZ doing a bit more DD based stuff again. Got the DQ6 on order, already have the EDX and the CCA CST.


----------



## purplesun (Dec 28, 2020)

Been comparing these 2. DQ6 came earlier than expected.




After some initial playing, it started to sound a bit like, crowd-favourite, the ZAX. So, I outfitted DQ6 exactly like the ZAX (same eartips & KZ's gold/silver colour cable) for a mini comparo.

First thought that came to mind is, "the kids are gonna to love this" (ie: club-going youngsters)! So, fired up Charli XCX on Tidal. The bass authority & texture of DQ6 is quite impressive, while keeping reasonably clear of the mids to maintain good clarity. The mids is a tad warmer than ZAX. With a more subdued lower treble and less treble extension. To my ears, it's a more mature sounding version of KZ's treble-leaning house sound. The electronic bass line on Charli XCX has never sounded better and with the low pricing, it will leave "the kids" with more money for extra shots! 

Not a giant-killing iem, but definitely a good return to form for KZ.

EDIT:
Interesting. Switching back to stock cable moves it toward KZ's house sound. Leaner & more treble energy.

EDIT:
It likes being amped; there's improved detail across the spectrum and the bass tightens. Tested with NX3s & IFI Nano BL and stock cable.


----------



## DynamicEars

Slater said:


> Absolutely! You’re one of the reasons why I picked up a Z1 specifically to convert it to wired
> 
> Nice to have you back. I hope things improve, and you experience peac. Only a few more days before this year is behind us!





baskingshark said:


> Welcome back friend!
> 
> We missed your great advise and friendship here. I've learnt a lot of stuff in audio from you! Hope things are getting better and a new year is coming, hopefully we put the past behind and look forward to better things in 2021 (and more audio gear!).



Thanks buddies, hope can back on the line, i've missed lot of things here. THe DQ6 looks interesting and beautiful. If they sounded as a better Z1 with same XUN driver that goes deep on sub bass, and maintain great timbre I can say this is a major step forward from KZ.
The XUN driver is something revolutionary IMHO, the large backplate made bigger soundstage, and I don't know how but somehow they hit the nail with bass depth.


----------



## Pelicampe

Compared to BL01 or BL03, how is the DQ6 ?


----------



## purplesun

Pelicampe said:


> Compared to BL01 or BL03, how is the DQ6 ?


With both using stock cables - DQ6 has more treble energy, less warmth and a stronger bass response. To my ears, BL-03 is more nuanced while DQ6 is more forward sounding. DQ6's nozzle design is easier to get a good ear insertion.


----------



## Winni

Thanks @purplesun for your impressions! 

My DQ6 should arrive any moment, will compare them to the EDX and other budget IEMs 😊


----------



## saldsald (Dec 28, 2020)

Pelicampe said:


> Compared to BL01 or BL03, how is the DQ6 ?



I don't have the bl-03. Comparing the BL-01 and DQ6:

Stage/Imaging - BL-01 wider but not as good imaging
Bass - much better on the BL-01, better impact, tighter, better resolution and extension; DQ6 has more fun kind of energetic bass tuning but below average extension.
Mid - BL-01 is more V shape, DQ6 mid resolution is ok, not anything to get excited about.
Treble - BL-01 better extension but experiences sibilance while on the DQ6 it is much smoother and non-fatiguing. Despite being smoother the DQ6 has better treble resolution. I always find the BL-01 treble 'sounds' like a good old CRT TV. 

Overall I find the DQ6 better to my taste. If only the DQ6 can have better bass extension and quality like the BL-01 it would be pretty good.


----------



## purplesun

Winni said:


> Thanks @purplesun for your impressions!
> My DQ6 should arrive any moment, will compare them to the EDX and other budget IEMs 😊


That should be a good fight! Too bad my CCA CST is broken. From what I can recall, the bass would lag DQ6 in quality & volume, while the highs was too hot for me (am treble-sensitive). While DQ6's treble volume, on stock cable,  is near my treble limit.


----------



## unifutomaki

purplesun said:


> That should be a good fight! Too bad my CCA CST is broken. From what I can recall, the bass would lag DQ6 in quality & volume, while the highs was too hot for me (am treble-sensitive). While DQ6's treble volume, on stock cable,  is near my treble limit.



Wait, your CST broke too? One of the nozzles fell off on mine. Very short-lived.


----------



## purplesun

unifutomaki said:


> Wait, your CST broke too? One of the nozzles fell off on mine. Very short-lived.


Changing cable on an iem with a fixed cable - usually does that


----------



## Slater (Dec 28, 2020)

BA10 were delivered today





Holy smokes I should have gotten these years ago!

I always avoided them because I was afraid of the robot looking fit, and also because I figured they had weak bass.

Boy was I wrong. The fit is just fine (at least my ears). And the bass is just great right OOTB. I had to do a double take and make sure there wasn’t a dynamic in there!

Seriously though, I am very impressed that KZ put out such a good all-BA, full metal, 4-way crossover earphone at such an affordable price.

And the fact that it uses the older Paragraph B socket allows me to use a nice 2-pin Limpid pure silver balanced cable.

I only had a short time with them (mainly to verify they weren’t defective). I’m still going to tip roll and give them some more serious critical head time this upcoming New Years holiday. Looking forward to it!

Thanks KZ, you hit it out of the ballpark yet again


----------



## PhonoPhi

Slater said:


> BA10 were delivered today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats on your discovery and the fit!

BA10 were more $85+ on launch, but now are really more affordable.

The bass is lovely indeed, and then AS10 are warmer, and a king of all there is AS12.

AS12 bass is really something, and then if you undampen and adjust the treble to your taste (those treble drivers there are unique beasts) - AS12 can be the real winners.

I have Knowles and Sonion BA  bass drivers to compare, and I like the old KZ ones in AS12 the most. The new modified bass drivers (ASX, ASF) are really powerful but close to Sonions and DDs in fluency and less to my taste.


----------



## Slater

PhonoPhi said:


> Congrats on your discovery and the fit!
> 
> BA10 were more $85+ on launch, but now are really more affordable.
> 
> ...



If I knew then what I know now, I would have paid $85 for the BA10. The fact that I got them for under $40 is just icing on the cake.

So if I like the BA10 I’m going to love a treble modded AS12 eh? You’re such an enabler lol


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> BA10 were delivered today
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm truly hurt "g" man, I know I've told you how good they were for some time now  Trying to get over it now






As a Christmas present to myself I went ahead and order a pair of the Darl Maul-esque red and black ones for formal occasions you know I bet $50 right now they get posted around here somewhere Their just so good across the board and like you I was hesitant their bass capability when I ordered them and now you see (hear actually) what I heard first time I put them in


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I'm truly hurt "g" man, I know I've told you how good they were for some time now  Trying to get over it now
> 
> 
> 
> As a Christmas present to myself I went ahead and order a pair of the Darl Maul-esque red and black ones for formal occasions you know I bet $50 right now they get posted around here somewhere Their just so good across the board and like you I was hesitant their bass capability when I ordered them and now you see (hear actually) what I heard first time I put them in



You shouldn’t be hurt; it was your consistent praise and enticing photos these last few years that finally convinced me to pull the trigger.

I got the Darth Maul version, although the Ironman gold is beckoning me like a siren to a rocky shore


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> You shouldn’t be hurt; it was your consistent praise and enticing photos these last few years that finally convinced me to pull the trigger.
> 
> I got the Darth Maul version, although the Ironman gold is beckoning me like a siren to a rocky shore



I've got $100 bet with myself you get the Ironman set before the next quarter runs out  LOL Not too mention if they catch on you may want to get that order in earlier than later


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 28, 2020)

Slater said:


> BA10 were delivered today
> 
> 
> 
> ...





PhonoPhi said:


> Congrats on your discovery and the fit!
> 
> BA10 were more $85+ on launch, but now are really more affordable.
> 
> ...




Yeah, that BA10 is an absolute keeper. Not long ago they were KZ's best release, for me.

Personally, I think the BA10 passed the torch to the AS12. The AS12 isn't as warm as the BA10 but it is every bit as good and slightly more revealing.

I always say that the good KZ's seem to slip through the cracks in the community which is unfortunate. People don't know what they're missing out on.

I'm listening to the *AS12* as I type this. They're just a great in-ear. The $70 pricetag is ridiculous. Without DSP they handle all genres with ease. For EDM I hit BBE and I'm good for hours.




Glad you finally have the BA10 and glad you're enjoying them.

Something tells me that the DQ6 might be another unique but fantastic KZ for bombastic and fist-pumping entertainment. Just went with my gut when I heard KZ was releasing a *Tri-Dy*. Maybe it'll be another *ZS5v1-like* wonder which is why I wanted several sets. Not to mention if somewhere down the road KZ swaps out that XUN driver for a different one. I hope they won't but if history is anything to go by.....

Can't wait 'til the DQ6 gets here.




Podster said:


> I'm truly hurt "g" man, I know I've told you how good they were for some time now  Trying to get over it now
> 
> 
> 
> As a Christmas present to myself I went ahead and order a pair of the Darl Maul-esque red and black ones for formal occasions you know I bet $50 right now they get posted around here somewhere Their just so good across the board and like you I was hesitant their bass capability when I ordered them and now you see (hear actually) what I heard first time I put them in





Slater said:


> You shouldn’t be hurt; it was your consistent praise and enticing photos these last few years that finally convinced me to pull the trigger.
> 
> I got the Darth Maul version, although the Ironman gold is beckoning me like a siren to a rocky shore





Podster said:


> I've got $100 bet with myself you get the Ironman set before the next quarter runs out  LOL Not too mention if they catch on you may want to get that order in earlier than later



Someone a year or two ago on this thread had the idea of getting two different color ZS6s and then swapping the faceplates, so I did that to my BA10.

I have an all red BA10 with a silver cable and a black and gold BA10 with a black cable. They both look stunning.

and unique.

I'll have to take some pictures and post them when I have more time.


----------



## Slater (Dec 28, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> Someone a year or two ago on this thread had the idea of getting two different color ZS6s and then swapping the faceplates, so I did that to my BA10.
> 
> I have an all red BA10 with a silver cable and a black and gold BA10 with a black cable. They both look stunning.
> 
> ...



Now that would look awesome! I would love to see pictures of that.

I’ve already been kicking around some cosmetic mod ideas for the BA10. I’ll have to see how easily the backs come off.

PS - you guys are killing me with this AS12 talk. My willpower is not that strong lol


----------



## Podster

Alpha Whale said:


> Yeah, that BA10 is an absolute keeper. Not long ago they were KZ's best release, for me.
> 
> Personally, I think the BA10 passed the torch to the AS12. The AS12 isn't as warm as the BA10 but it is every bit as good and slightly more revealing.
> 
> ...




Dang, I've given them both away now but last Christmas I did the same thing with my green and red ZS6's, put black 16 cores on both  May have some shots around here somewhere though, red face plate green body and vice versa on the other pair. Might order another red pair to do that swap with my gray ones but my black ones will always stay black ones





So in KZ rotation and my top 4 right now..........................................................................





Can't find any of those shots of the mixed ZS6's now Anyway it was the two tone Black and Blue 7's that got me to swap face plates on the red & green ZS6's


----------



## Aparker2005

Deciding if it's worth it to shell the small amount of cash for the DQ6 when I also have the CCA CA16s. The reviews on the DQ6 here are promising


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 29, 2020)

Podster said:


> I've got $100 bet with myself you get the Ironman set before






Podster said:


> Dang, I've given them both away now but last Christmas I did the same thing with my green and red ZS6's, put black 16 cores on both  May have some shots around here somewhere though, red face plate green body and vice versa on the other pair. Might order another red pair to do that swap with my gray ones but my black ones will always stay black ones
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, I never picked up the ZS7.
I waited far too long and now they're gone.
Bummer.

I do have a ZS10 Pro and it's a no-brainer in-ear for $40 give or take.

Is that gray ZS6 a v1 or v2?

Haven't heard the v2 but the v1 is still one of my favorites though it hasn't been in rotation lately.

I need to fix that.





Slater said:


> Now that would look awesome! I would love to see pictures of that.
> 
> I’ve already been kicking around some cosmetic mod ideas for the BA10. I’ll have to see how easily the backs come off.
> 
> PS - you guys are killing me with this AS12 talk. My willpower is not that strong lol



Yeah, I know what you mean. I'll try not to talk too much about it but it's difficult. When the BA10 came out so few people picked up a set and I was kind of sad that only a handful of community members had a set and other than its unique shape it was mentioned only periodically. The ZSX, ZS10 Pro and ZSN Pro got far more attention but the BA10 is better than all of them. Actually, I don't have a ZSX on hand so disregard my comparison of it to the BA10.

Still, to me the BA10 is a 9 out of 10 in-ear for the $75 I paid and the AS12 is a 9.5 out of 10 for the $75 I paid for each of them. To me the only drawback of the AS12 is the typical balanced armature timbre found in all-BA in-ears (the BA10 and ASF being the only two models that I've heard that are exceptions to the rule). Those "s" model BAs explain it for the ASF but I still don't know how KZ massaged the BA10 to have a more dynamic-like timbre. Whatever they've done, it works. The BA10 still has some BA timbre but it's just less evident.

Great in-ear, even at full price.

So's the AS12! I suppose it's a less "peaky" AS16 with a fuller low end to even things out. I don't own the Tin T2 for the same reason I don't own the AS16 (not enough low end for my tastes) but that is precisely why I picked up the Tin T1 (a more full low end than the T2 affords). I think the comparison is valid even though I don't own the T2 (edit) and I don't have an AS16 to compare anymore.

Still, the AS12....

oops, there I go.





Actually, my gold AS12 has a black QDC cable.

Oops, again


----------



## IEMusic

Sheesh!   All this talk about the BA10!  Now you people made me buy the Ironman that I had in my cart.


----------



## n0de5

Hi, I'm new here, as I just created an account after lurking here for some time.
Anyway, whats the difference between the zs6 v1 and v2?


Alpha Whale said:


> Is that gray ZS6 a v1 or v2?


----------



## purplesun (Dec 28, 2020)

What the hecks happening?
Did I wake up in 2018?
Was ASF, Blons & Beryllium drivers just a dream?

Nevermind, I'll just put on my AS10 and go back to sleep.


----------



## courierdriver

purplesun said:


> What the hecks happening?
> Did I wake up in 2018?
> Was ASF, Blons & Beryllium drivers just a dream?
> 
> Nevermind, I'll just put on my AS10 and go back to sleep.


Just because newer sets come up...doesn't always mean that older sets aren't good anymore. 😜


----------



## purplesun

courierdriver said:


> Just because newer sets come up...doesn't always mean that older sets aren't good anymore. 😜


And, back in 2018, listening to IEMs didn't sound like a Phd in Material Science.
The only carbon that I was concerned with came out of a tailpipe and graphene was probably a ditzy girl I dated


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 28, 2020)

n0de5 said:


> Hi, I'm new here, as I just created an account after lurking here for some time.



That was me for several years.

There were a few snipers on the thread back then but just about everybody is chill here today.

If you pick up a KZ/CCA let us know your thoughts. There is a large catalogue of in-ears to choose from at more-than-affordable prices so KZ/CCA has something for everyone (except the elitists).

If you've been a long time visitor you probably know about these but just in case here are a few models.



Spoiler






























n0de5 said:


> Anyway, whats the difference between the zs6 v1 and v2?



Slater or Podster can probably answer that better than I can. I've never owned the v2. You're lucky if you can get your hands on a ZS6v1 if you like a well-tuned "V-shaped" sound signature and you're not treble sensitive. It was ground-breaking for $50 when it was released and still worth having. KZ/CCA has matured over the years but the ZS6v1 will always be an entertaining listen. It just needed a good aftermarket cable and eartips that worked for you to be great.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> I'm truly hurt "g" man, I know I've told you how good they were for some time now  Trying to get over it now
> 
> 
> 
> As a Christmas present to myself I went ahead and order a pair of the Darl Maul-esque red and black ones for formal occasions you know I bet $50 right now they get posted around here somewhere Their just so good across the board and like you I was hesitant their bass capability when I ordered them and now you see (hear actually) what I heard first time I put them in


Yes, they are the ones I have. Love the bass, superb mid BA combo and excellent top end with no BA in the nozzle. Built like a tank! My fave KZ.


----------



## Nimweth

Alpha Whale said:


> Unfortunately, I never picked up the ZS7.
> I waited far too long and now they're gone.
> Bummer.
> 
> ...


ZS7 here:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...er_id=86e396fa4ec64b26a1f537cd23c65965&is_c=N


----------



## Nimweth

IEMusic said:


> Sheesh!   All this talk about the BA10!  Now you people made me buy the Ironman that I had in my cart.


You'll love it!


----------



## TheVortex

Nimweth said:


> ZS7 here:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...er_id=86e396fa4ec64b26a1f537cd23c65965&is_c=N



Links to a Kbear cable?


----------



## artatgray (Dec 29, 2020)

This is probably going to sound very odd considering the less than stellar reviews, but the ASX has just become my favorite KZ, and I've had a good number of them by now. How did that happen? I EQed them to Harman and they sound fantastic. As an added bonus - that early roll off of treble? When EQed back to normal there absolutely no sibilance whatsoever. That overpowering bass? Completely tamed. The recessed mids? Not anymore...

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASX


----------



## IEMusic

Does anyone have good PEQ settings for the ASF?


----------



## artatgray

IEMusic said:


> Does anyone have good PEQ settings for the ASF?



Yep! By the way, the ASF and ASX have virtually identical tunings. So, if this guy's EQ sounds great on the latter, I'm certain it'll sound so on the former:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASF


----------



## IEMusic

artatgray said:


> Yep! By the way, the ASF and ASX have virtually identical tunings. So, if this guy's EQ sounds great on the latter, I'm certain it'll sound so on the former:
> 
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASF


Thanks a lot!


----------



## n0de5 (Dec 28, 2020)

@Slater can you explain the difference between ZS6 v1's and v2's? I'm assuming that the v2's are the grey ones with the "extra bass".
Edit: Also, how do you tell the difference between the v1's and v2's? I'm willing to take the back cover off of my ZS6 when it comes.


----------



## Slater

n0de5 said:


> @Slater can you explain the difference between ZS6 v1's and v2's? I'm assuming that the v2's are the grey ones with the "extra bass".
> Edit: Also, how do you tell the difference between the v1's and v2's? I'm willing to take the back cover off of my ZS6 when it comes.



The ‘extra bass’ thing was a gimmick. *There was no extra bass.* The tuning is absolutely no different between the grey ‘extra bass’ version and the regular one. The extra bass was literally just the introduction of the grey color, and I’m not sure why they said extra bass in the marketing, but it’s not true. Maybe KZ PLANNED a bass retuning with the release of the grey version, but changed their mind at the last minute (and it slipped by the marketing people, who had already created the extra bass marketing literature).

As far as the difference between v1 and v2, the big difference is the treble tuning was changed sometime in 2019 (ie ZS6 v2).

The v2 sounds totally different than all my other ZS6 v1. I don’t like the v2 sound at all. In trying to tone down the treble, KZ just made it way too distant and dark and closed in sounding.

Unfortunately, there is no way to visually tell what version you have (as far as I’m aware). You would have to have a v1 to compare the sound to as a reference point. Unless the seller knows if they have old stock (from say 2018).


----------



## artatgray (Dec 29, 2020)

Quick question - does anyone have accurate measurements for the ZSA? I'd to tune them to Harman, but I could never find measurements for them. In lieu of measurements, what about an EQ profile that'll get me there? 🤔


----------



## artatgray

IEMusic said:


> Thanks a lot!



You're very welcome... 😎


----------



## n0de5 (Dec 29, 2020)

Thanks @Slater!
Anyway I got a ZS6 off of ebay and looks pretty worn, so I hope its a v1. Any physical differences that I can see in the v1 and v2 like wiring layout or different resistor crossover values?


----------



## guido (Dec 29, 2020)

anyone tried the ZAX with an iFi xDSD?


----------



## Pelicampe

artatgray said:


> Quick question - does anyone have accurate measurements for the ZSA? I'd to tune them to Harman, but I could never find measurements for them. In lieu of measurements, what about an EQ profile that'll get me there? 🤔



You can find fews frequencys responses of ZSA on gxxgle pictures.

With AutoEQ from Jaakko that you linked, you are able to generate a EQ setting.

If you don't feel to do all this esoterics cmd, I'll made this for you. (In 2 days... No time now)

You point a interesting thing. ASX is so weird in tuning that you can't repair it with cable swap.
Only good EQ can.

IMHO cable swapping is hyped. Ok it make a diff, a little ... Tips swap work better for a lot less money...

I use Android powerEQ for 4 bucks. The result are way reliable than cable swap.

My sentiment is peoples here push to buy more and more pure copper silver things, for wich results ?...

My humble 2cts


----------



## Nimweth

IEMusic said:


> Sheesh!   All this talk about the BA10!  Now you people made me buy the Ironman that I had in my cart.


You'll love it!


----------



## Nimweth

TheVortex said:


> Links to a Kbear cable?


That's weird. I googled "KZ ZS7" and then clicked on "Shopping" and got this link: https://gbr.grandado.com/products/c...rphone-kz-zs6-as10-zst?variant=36497301700757


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> BA10 were delivered today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have been testing the Limpid Pro cable and will be posting a review soon. After reading your post I have fitted it to my BA10. Perfect!! BTW it really works well on the KBEAR Diamond as well.


----------



## Slater

n0de5 said:


> Thanks @Slater!
> Anyway I got a ZS6 off of ebay and looks pretty worn, so I hope its a v1. Any physical differences that I can see in the v1 and v2 like wiring layout or different resistor crossover values?



Unfortunately not.

The only exception is the lip on the nozzle. If the nozzle has NO lip, it’s definitely v1. If the nozzle has a lip, it could be v1 OR v2. The nozzle lip was added in later v1 batches, so I have some v1 with no lip and some v1 with a lip.


----------



## Aparker2005

Went on and got the DQ6. Something different for once, and super cheap. Think I'm good with 3 iems now!


----------



## Nimweth

Aparker2005 said:


> Went on and got the DQ6. Something different for once, and super cheap. Think I'm good with 3 iems now!


Ha ha! Have you ever heard of a rabbit hole?


----------



## Aparker2005

Nimweth said:


> Ha ha! Have you ever heard of a rabbit hole?



Absolutely. I'm the same way with my drums lol. Never ending cycle


----------



## guido

what I really want to know is....will the ZAX which is apparently easy to drive straight out of an iPhone X benefit greatly from something like the iFi iDSDX or similar amp\dac?


----------



## purplesun

guido said:


> what I really want to know is....will the ZAX which is apparently easy to drive straight out of an iPhone X benefit greatly from something like the iFi iDSDX or similar amp\dac?


I would say quite likely. I have the lesser model, Nano BL, and just about any IEMs I plug into it sounds warmer, more natural and with a feeling of more "space" added. I think that's the way IFI tunes all their DACs. I just tried the ZAX and it does the same transformation as DQ6 & Believe, which I've been listening to past few days on the IFI. I think the IFI support guy hangs out at head-fi's IFI threads, you could ask him the same iPhone X vs iDSDX question.


----------



## Nimweth

Having a good time with BA10 (Limpid Pro) and ZS7 (TRI Through). Very close between them but BA10 has more resolution and better imaging and ZS7 clearer treble. Bass is very similar on both, very similar timbre and depth.


----------



## IEMusic

Aparker2005 said:


> Absolutely. I'm the same way with my drums lol. Never ending cycle


Hah!   The drums really are a rabbit hole instrument.  You can never stop adding stuff to your set.  There’s always room for more.


----------



## Slater

IEMusic said:


> Hah!   The drums really are a rabbit hole instrument.  You can never stop adding stuff to your set.  There’s always room for more.



More cowbell!


----------



## Podster (Dec 29, 2020)

Alpha Whale said:


> That was me for several years.
> 
> There were a few snipers on the thread back then but just about everybody is chill here today.
> 
> ...



The difference thing is a Slater question (especially since reading I really detected very little in that model change, never having a v2)! Indeed sound wise and dollar for dollar they hold their own with anything sub $50 imho but as you've read me tons of times "We all hear them a little differently"

Digging back thru some KZ photos I stumbled upon this one, must have gave the greens away already yes I see my 7's in there which prompted a reduction in 6's Anyway pay no attention to the quite ones in the upper right LOL Thinking about it they all still hold a special place in my KZ heart





That second pair from bottom right may still be my favorite KZ ever based on $, Fit, Appearance and most importantly the pure listening enjoyment I get from them based on the preceding factors. For their comfort and even handling of just about everything I've thrown at them and for a whopping $12 when I got mine they deliver like a pair costing 5 times as much in some cases (maybe more when you tack on that fine 7N silver balanced cable which cost 2 1/2 time the iem's but may make them challengers to the $70 range Oh no he deent LOL I mean seriously these babies are flat out sexy, once again in one feeble old mind


----------



## IEMusic

Slater said:


> More cowbell!


Love it!


----------



## n0de5 (Dec 29, 2020)

Can you guys tell whether this has a lip or not? I can't tell.





This is the seller's image btw


----------



## guido

definitely has a lip


----------



## Slater

n0de5 said:


> Can you guys tell whether this has a lip or not? I can't tell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, it appears so.

Here’s what no lip looks like:



But remember, there were a *few* v1 *with* a lip (I own one).


----------



## Podster

n0de5 said:


> Can you guys tell whether this has a lip or not? I can't tell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here I was hoping you could step half foot back and re-shoot those from more of an eye level before I can fully agree with Guido


----------



## n0de5 (Dec 29, 2020)

I also asked the seller to take an image of the inside of the box it comes with because there's probably a manufacture date stamped somewhere. About what date did KZ start making the v2's and stopped making v1's?
Also, would you rather buy ZS5 v2's or ZS6 v2's?


----------



## Slater

n0de5 said:


> I also asked the seller to take an image of the inside of the box it comes with because there's probably a manufacture date stamped somewhere. About what date did KZ start making the v2's and stopped making v1's?
> Also, would you rather buy ZS5 v2's or ZS6 v2's?



There’s never been a manufacturing date on any KZ.

From what I have seen, the ZS6 v2 came out in early 2019. But there’s no way to know when you’re were made.

As far as the ZS5 v2, it used to be the a similar tuning to the ZS6 v2 (with minor differences). However, if KZ retuned the ZS6 v2 due to all the whining about the treble, then I have a feeling they would have retuned the ZS5 v2 to be the same (ie creating a ZS5 v3).

Lemme ask you this - why even mess with the ZS6? There are better offerings now, without all the unknown variables, maybes, and what ifs.


----------



## n0de5 (Dec 29, 2020)

Slater said:


> Lemme ask you this - why even mess with the ZS6? There are better offerings now, without all the unknown variables, maybes, and what ifs.


I just got into the KZ world and the ZS5/6 seemed like the IEM that everyone liked so I went along with that. The ZS6 i bought was going for 25 while on Amazon it goes for 45 so I thought I might as well pick it up for a little under half of its price off. Also, I was on a budget of $30 so that restricted my ability to get the ZS10 pros and other IEMs.


----------



## Podster

n0de5 said:


> I just got into the KZ world and the ZS5/6 seemed like the IEM that everyone liked so I went along with that. The ZS6 i bought was going for 25 while on Amazon it goes for 45 so I thought I might as well pick it up for a little under half of its price off. Also, I was on a budget of $30 so that restricted my ability to get the ZS10 pros and other IEMs.



Face it you stole those babies for under $25 cause the ZS6 was a $50 iem all day long, still is but competition is closing in but of course that has been going on for years now and KZ always comes up with a filler to $$$ gaps in iem's. I personally knew they were legit from their build, fast re-org. when they started having a few QC issues and came back stronger than ever with build, materials and always some sweet tunings and always at a reasonable price. 


@Slater so do you have photos of the open backs of both v1 & v2 ZS6's? Just curious as my Gray ones may really be a two, don't think so cause my old ears can't really tell a difference in any of mine  Why am I asking you when I can just go ahead and swap my black and gray faceplates and figure it out myself You gotta love an old internet putz, sometimes it feels like my first day here


----------



## trumpethead

Nimweth said:


> Ha ha! Have you ever heard of a rabbit hole?


I was gonna say, Only Three.. HAHA! that won't last long...


----------



## khighly

Slater said:


> The ‘extra bass’ thing was a gimmick. *There was no extra bass.* The tuning is absolutely no different between the grey ‘extra bass’ version and the regular one. The extra bass was literally just the introduction of the grey color, and I’m not sure why they said extra bass in the marketing, but it’s not true. Maybe KZ PLANNED a bass retuning with the release of the grey version, but changed their mind at the last minute (and it slipped by the marketing people, who had already created the extra bass marketing literature).
> 
> As far as the difference between v1 and v2, the big difference is the treble tuning was changed sometime in 2019 (ie ZS6 v2).
> 
> ...


Agree on the ZS6 v1 vs v2. v1 was a good IEM from KZ and I've never heard better soundstage on my pair. I lost one side in downtwn Seattle, got a v2 and never liked them in comparison. Someone who has a v1 and complained about them better sell them to me or else.


----------



## khighly

My Z1's no longer charge after leaving them in my backpack for awhile unused. Anyone know of any KZ or other chifi TWS IEM's that are worth buying? The Z1 Pro's?


----------



## purplesun (Dec 29, 2020)

Was googling for more info about KZ's Xun driver and found this little video nugget. Amazing sounding wind instrument. I would totally pay for a live concert performance, whenever that re-starts again. Performance starts 2:18mins:


----------



## artatgray

Pelicampe said:


> If you don't feel to do all this esoterics cmd, I'll made this for you. (In 2 days... No time now)
> 
> You point a interesting thing. ASX is so weird in tuning that you can't repair it with cable swap.
> Only good EQ can.
> ...



Thanks for the offer of the profile for the ZSA. However, there's no urgency as I rarely listen to them these days. I've already made a couple of crude profiles, which I just eyeballed in from some measurements I've found on the Web. However, given the inconsistencies in the equipment used to do so I was looking for something more standardized. 

As for cables, I've a very solid science and engineering background, as well as 40 years of experience in them as well. I'll say this about it, a performance analysis conducted with a lab grade audio analyzer is the only evidence I'd accept of a swap actually doing anything audible. 

Regarding EQ and tuning to correction/preference, it's standard practice in music production to do so. Therefore, I wasn't particularly surprised that it helped with the ASX, I was just surprised by how much it did.


----------



## Slater (Dec 29, 2020)

2 awesome tracks with the BA10.





I am constantly blown away by these. They are the most dynamic sounding all-BA I own, and I own a number of them.

The sound reminds me of the Philips Fidelio X2. Warm and musical; not analytical in a way that makes you want to pick apart every detail in the music. You just sit back and listen to the music and enjoy every minute of it.


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> @Slater so do you have photos of the open backs of both v1 & v2 ZS6's? Just curious as my Gray ones may really be a two, don't think so cause my old ears can't really tell a difference in any of mine  Why am I asking you when I can just go ahead and swap my black and gray faceplates and figure it out myself You gotta love an old internet putz, sometimes it feels like my first day here



Here are some photos of the different versions from an old post.

Note that this doesn’t include the true v2, as the v2 (with retuned treble) didn’t exist at the time I made those 2 posts.

There is also more detailed information about the ‘extra bass’ version for anyone interested:

Part 1:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1909#post-14070254

Part 2:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-1934#post-14098992


----------



## Podster

You fellers obviously have way better ears than old Pod, I could really tell little difference in the v1 and v2 6's, Here's a shot of a black shell Gray Face plate v1 and gray shell black Face Plate v2's wiring and then in their new Tuxedo look. Basically did them like ZS7 shells


----------



## n0de5

Are there any mods that I can perform if my ZS6 is a v2?


----------



## Podster

n0de5 said:


> Are there any mods that I can perform if my ZS6 is a v2?




Based on what I hear and Slaters second link in his post no, just enjoy them and be glad you got the nozzle lip to help tips stay on


----------



## Slater

n0de5 said:


> Are there any mods that I can perform if my ZS6 is a v2?



Are you sensitive to treble?

Remember, KZ retuned the treble because a LOT of people said the v1 were way to sharp due to a 10k treble peak. So if you are bothered by treble then you WANT the v2.

If you are older (experiencing normal age related treble hearing loss), or are a treble head, then the v1 is the better of the 2 IMO.

Don’t overthink this v1 vs v2 stuff man. You haven’t even received them yet, so just wait until you get them and see if you like them. If you like them, then who cares what version they are; just enjoy them.


----------



## n0de5

Slater said:


> Don’t overthink this v1 vs v2 stuff man. You haven’t even received them yet, so just wait until you get them and see if you like them. If you like them, then who cares what version they are; just enjoy them.


Thanks for the advice lol.


----------



## voicemaster

Or just get the ZAX.


----------



## Slater (Dec 29, 2020)

n0de5 said:


> Thanks for the advice lol.



No problem. It’s perfectly normal to worry that you made a wrong decision somehow. Don’t sweat it though. At the price you paid, it’s worth it for the build alone. You can’t find a quad driver hybrid with all metal build for what you paid, period. So definitely pat yourself on the back and spend some time with it when you receive it. Don’t forget about brain burn in, so give it a few days of listening time for your brain to adjust to the sound before you make a decision about whether you like it or not.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Are you sensitive to treble?
> 
> Remember, KZ retuned the treble because a LOT of people said the v1 were way to sharp due to a 10k treble peak. So if you are bothered by treble then you WANT the v2.
> 
> ...



Off the record those two tracks sound pretty good on my KBEar Diamonds too  You know I'm with you all the way on the BA10's and to this day the best sounding all BA I own as well and Peter talked me into these babies and yes they are sweet and do have 12BA's per but still my BA10 thrash them (Peter's going to kill me)


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Or just get the ZAX.



ZAX was out of OPs budget.

But yeah, I agree the ZAX is the King of the Hill KZ hybrid model. I don’t see any way that they could top it, except for an all metal shell like the NF Audio NM+.

For the extreme budget, the EDX owns the title in the under $10 category. I just got my 5th set today (for gifts), and realized how nuts KZ is for selling them for $7. They could have sold it for 3xs that and it still would have been a killer deal.


----------



## Podster

So here's way back in my KZ beginning, could still be one of the best $8 I ever spent in this hobby of course they had a little help from the C421 as the retired iPhone 4 was just not cutting it


----------



## voicemaster

Or the zs10 pro for under $30 on AliExpress. I forgot how much the budget limit from the op.


----------



## courierdriver

Lmao! Yeah, you have a point there.


purplesun said:


> And, back in 2018, listening to IEMs didn't sound like a Phd in Material Science.
> The only carbon that I was concerned with came out of a tailpipe and graphene was probably a ditzy girl I dated


----------



## Podster

So I've apparently been pulling a Patrick Star of late and not come out from under my rock, what is a ZAX? Guess this one has eluded  my attention but when Greg says it's the top of the current KZ food chain inquiring minds want to know


----------



## Slater

voicemaster said:


> Or the zs10 pro for under $30 on AliExpress. I forgot how much the budget limit from the op.



I thought he posted mentioned it, but I can’t find the post. I’m having a  brain fart due to lack of sleep


----------



## Slater (Dec 29, 2020)

Podster said:


> So I've apparently been pulling a Patrick Star of late and not come out from under my rock, what is a ZAX? Guess this one has eluded  my attention but when Greg says it's the top of the current KZ food chain inquiring minds want to know



Holy moly buddy, I can’t believe you’re talking like that! You are Super #1 KZ fan. I figured you had a ZAX in every color, plus 2 backup sets lol





Drop what you’re doing and order one! You won’t be disappointed!


----------



## n0de5 (Dec 29, 2020)

Slater said:


> I thought he posted mentioned it, but I can’t find the post. I’m having a  brain fart due to lack of sleep


I had a budget of 30 dollars all including shipping and tax. I live in Cali so the tax tends to get in the way. 


voicemaster said:


> Or the zs10 pro for under $30 on AliExpress. I forgot how much the budget limit from the op.


I don't really like dealing with stuff from AliExpress due to the long time it takes to get here as well as having a package get lost last time I ordered.


----------



## baskingshark

khighly said:


> My Z1's no longer charge after leaving them in my backpack for awhile unused. Anyone know of any KZ or other chifi TWS IEM's that are worth buying? The Z1 Pro's?



U can ask the rest more in the dedicated TWS thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/going-fully-wireless-iems-too-soon-or-are-we-there-yet.861024/

Or u can consider a bluetooth adapter like TRN BT20, TRN BT20S, TRN BT20S pro or iBasso CF01. Basically they let u reuse a detachable IEM with the dongle, so u can preserve the sound signature of the IEM u like on the go. Also since TWS stuff generally degrade in battery life with each charge (and may become obsolete very fast with new codecs/BT tech), it kind of allows u to keep the IEM in case the adapter is rendered obsolete.



Slater said:


> 2 awesome tracks with the BA10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How does the BA10 compare to say an all BA set like the Audiosense T800? TIA!


----------



## Slater

baskingshark said:


> How does the BA10 compare to say an all BA set like the Audiosense T800? TIA!



I’ll A/B them this weekend and let you know


----------



## n0de5 (Dec 29, 2020)

These ZS6's were made at least before 7/16/2019. How likely is it to get a v1? No sweat of course.


----------



## courierdriver

Slater said:


> 2 awesome tracks with the BA10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for those tracks/artists  @Slater ! Really enjoyed both and I think I'm gonna download them ( and more of their music from Spotify premium). Also, if you are not already subbed to the Headfi thread "What are you listening to right now?"; please consider posting there too. It's a cool thread imho because it lets me discover new music and older stuff I forgot about, when folks are listening to their stuff. I've been able to download tons of great music...just by subscribing to that thread. Would like to see more of what music that scratches your itches...Lol!😜


----------



## Slater

n0de5 said:


> These ZS6's were made at least before 7/16/2019. How likely is it to get a v1? No sweat of course.



Whoa, since when did KZ put manufacturing dates inside the box? That’s news to me


----------



## n0de5

Slater said:


> Whoa, since when did KZ put manufacturing dates inside the box? That’s news to me


Idk, I just saw it while digging through my ZSN pro box and accepted it as a thing KZ does. I asked the seller to take pictures of the inside of the ZS6 box I ordered and I guess this is standard KZ procedure. Sample size is too small to be sure though.


----------



## voicemaster

n0de5 said:


> I had a budget of 30 dollars all including shipping and tax. I live in Cali so the tax tends to get in the way.
> 
> I don't really like dealing with stuff from AliExpress due to the long time it takes to get here as well as having a package get lost last time I ordered.


If you live in Cali, I can sell you some of my old KZ that are collecting dust. I live in Bay Area.
Luckily I never had any lost package yet from buying at AliExpress. It takes awhile to get the item tho that I agree.


----------



## n0de5

voicemaster said:


> If you live in Cali, I can sell you some of my old KZ that are collecting dust. I live in Bay Area.
> Luckily I never had any lost package yet from buying at AliExpress. It takes awhile to get the item tho that I agree.


I'm down for buying, I just gotta save up some more. I'm in high school, so I don't have a job or anything. All the funds I have are from gifts and money I've made from doing chores and such. I'm getting off topic lol
Anyway, what KZ's are you willing to sell?


----------



## voicemaster (Dec 30, 2020)

KZ ZS10 pro, CCA C12 and I also have an unopened Blon bl03
.


----------



## roylan667

Slater said:


> Absolutely! You’re one of the reasons why I picked up a Z1 specifically to convert it to wired
> 
> Nice to have you back. I hope things improve, and you experience peac. Only a few more days before this year is behind us!



Do you able to make it work? If you do I would like to see some pictures, only if you want to share of course. I have posted this before back in August looking at wired KZ with 10mm XUN. It is interesting that people also have the same opinion on this. 

Post here

Tonymac suggested on the KZ ZST-X so I bought that one just to try. But the sounds really not as the same, the bass especially not hit as good as Z1. Really weird that KZ have yet to utilize this in their wired IEM option. Just a wired IEM with single 10mm XUN DD with same shell and it is golden.


----------



## Slater

roylan667 said:


> Do you able to make it work? If you do I would like to see some pictures, only if you want to share of course. I have posted this before back in August looking at wired KZ with 10mm XUN. It is interesting that people also have the same opinion on this.



Well, that was my intention. But believe it or not I’ve been enjoying them too much as TWS!

I do still plan on converting them to wired though. I just gotta wait until the batteries are degraded and barely hold a charge. Which, according to other Z1 owners, won’t be too much longer haha

And don’t worry, I’ll be sure to share pictures once they’re converted


----------



## Podster

For a total layout of less than $80 smacks this rig is amazing and can cure what ails ya  $26 for the Benjie T6, $29 for the Xduoo XQ-10 and $25 for the ZS6's w/cable


----------



## axhng

roylan667 said:


> Do you able to make it work? If you do I would like to see some pictures, only if you want to share of course. I have posted this before back in August looking at wired KZ with 10mm XUN. It is interesting that people also have the same opinion on this.
> 
> Tonymac suggested on the KZ ZST-X so I bought that one just to try. But the sounds really not as the same, the bass especially not hit as good as Z1. Really weird that KZ have yet to utilize this in their wired IEM option. Just a wired IEM with single 10mm XUN DD with same shell and it is golden.



actually listening to them right now when I saw your post. 








axhng said:


> Was contemplating on whether I should replace the batteries in the Z1 since battery life has degraded to the point where it's no longer useful for me. I do like how they fit and how fun they sound, so thought it would be a shame to just chuck them away. Decided to go the other route instead and convert it to wired. Had a pair of QKZ VK4 with channel imbalance so took the 2pin connector from that and used it on the Z1 instead. Worked out pretty well. Sound signature I can't say for sure since it has been a while since I listened to them in TWS form, and I kinda forgot to compare it before I converted both sides. But I think it is mostly similar with perhaps slightly less bass and leaner sounding lower mids? haha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Podster

axhng said:


> actually listening to them right now when I saw your post.



What are those again? Their nice looking, is that a dark green?


----------



## axhng

Podster said:


> What are those again? Their nice looking, is that a dark green?



Those are the KZ Z1 in dark green.


----------



## roylan667

axhng said:


> actually listening to them right now when I saw your post.



Looking good. That is "cleaner" than what I expected,  for the lack of better word knowing we will need to dissamble, drill and glue the connector. Nice work!


----------



## purplesun (Dec 31, 2020)

My DQ6 popped open for no apparent reason. Looks to be held together by dark matter glue 
Just pushed them back together and everything's back normal.


----------



## IEMusic

Just to let you know,
Voting/nominating is now open for the Head-Fi Members' Poll for In Ear Monitors 2020!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...r-monitors-2020-please-read-the-rules.950854/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...20-please-read-the-rules.950854/post-16073195


----------



## Alpha Whale

purplesun said:


> My DQ6 popped open for no apparent reason. Looks to be held together by dark matter glue
> Just pushed them back together and everything's back normal.
> 
> 
> .


Thanks for taking a snapshot of them while they were open. I've been contemplating whether or not to open mine when they arrive, just out of curiosity. I've saved a copy of your image for future reference so no need to open mine now. Looks compact but clean. 

I guess I'm fairly excited to receive mine due to the feedback on the fun tuning which is precisely what I am looking for from KZ at the moment. 

Unfortunately, I probably won't have mine delivered for about a week or more (impatiently taps fingers on table) but the upgrade cables I ordered for them arrived yesterday with my new Plenue. Having second thoughts on the blue/white cable for the silver DQ6. I may just go full silver QDC. It'll probably look more understated and clean.

Seeing Podster's collection has been an inspiration.


----------



## purplesun

Alpha Whale said:


> Thanks for taking a snapshot of them while they were open. I've been contemplating whether or not to open mine when they arrive, just out of curiosity. I've saved a copy of your image for future reference so no need to open mine now. Looks compact but clean.
> 
> I guess I'm fairly excited to receive mine due to the feedback on the fun tuning which is precisely what I am looking for from KZ at the moment.



I know Slater some people like their earphone porn raw 
And if you love ginormous textured bass, I don't think you can do better than DQ6 in this price range.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> I know Slater some people like their earphone porn raw
> And if you love ginormous textured bass, I don't think you can do better than DQ6 in this price range.



Haha, so true!

I can’t wait to receive my DQ6. Gimme that sweet sweet bass


----------



## Wgibson

purplesun said:


> My DQ6 popped open for no apparent reason. Looks to be held together by dark matter glue
> Just pushed them back together and everything's back normal.
> 
> 
> .



I don't get it, how does the larger driver even fit in there? Are the two smaller drivers on a removable shelf or something?


----------



## purplesun

Wgibson said:


> I don't get it, how does the larger driver even fit in there? Are the two smaller drivers on a removable shelf or something?


Knowing KZ, they can probably squeeze in another 3 BAs in the leftover space. Easy!


----------



## Slater

Wgibson said:


> I don't get it, how does the larger driver even fit in there? Are the two smaller drivers on a removable shelf or something?


----------



## saldsald

Wgibson said:


> I don't get it, how does the larger driver even fit in there? Are the two smaller drivers on a removable shelf or something?



There is a front opening on the nozzle side, or the magic door I like to call it.


----------



## guido

OK...KZ ZAX arrived, fitted with JVC Spiral Dot tips...already sounding fabulous even straight out of an iPad


----------



## ukemaxxer

New KZ fan here.

My Klipsch S4 dies and was looking for something new, didnt want wireless. I opted for a pair of ZS10 Pro and am not disappointed.
My main over ears are Sennheiser HD650 which are superb, but I think these iem's sound better! I had a pair of Philips Fidelio X2HR but sold them (regretted it the same day)
the ZS10 remind me a lot of the X2 sound, so much that I've just ordered another pair of them from Amazon.

Currently listening to this among others and it sounds great on the ZS10


----------



## Viber

Recently iv'e been wearing the *ZS6* in reverse (right piece in left ear, Left piece in Right ear, with the cable going downwards) + shallow TWS tips and let me tell ya - i get one of the best fits ever this way.  For some reason when it's upside down they sit comfortably on my ears and the nozzle never comes out.   Just a nice consistent sound throughout.

I advise everyone to try this with their ZS6s (maybe even ZS5).


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Recently iv'e been wearing the *ZS6* in reverse (right piece in left ear, Left piece in Right ear, with the cable going downwards) + shallow TWS tips and let me tell ya - i get one of the best fits ever this way.  For some reason when it's upside down they sit comfortably on my ears and the nozzle never comes out.   Just a nice consistent sound throughout.
> 
> I advise everyone to try this with their ZS6s (maybe even ZS5).



Wait, what?




I gotta try this with the ZS7!


----------



## baskingshark

Viber said:


> Recently iv'e been wearing the *ZS6* in reverse (right piece in left ear, Left piece in Right ear, with the cable going downwards) + shallow TWS tips and let me tell ya - i get one of the best fits ever this way.  For some reason when it's upside down they sit comfortably on my ears and the nozzle never comes out.   Just a nice consistent sound throughout.
> 
> I advise everyone to try this with their ZS6s (maybe even ZS5).



I've long since sold away my KZ ZS6, but I do use this reverse fitting trick for the Urbanfun and BLON BL-03. It does give better fit for some gear, a good trick to try with some sets that have not that great fit.


----------



## Viber (Dec 31, 2020)

Slater said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> 
> I gotta try this with the ZS7!



Yea, when i first tried it  i was running around the house trying to make them fall off, yelling "NOOO WAY!!"


----------



## Podster

Viber said:


> Yea, when i first tried it  i was running around the house trying to make them fall off, yelling "NOOO WAY!!"





Slater said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> 
> I gotta try this with the ZS7!



Now you know that is exactly what I thought and all I can say is I learn something new every day I mean truly So much so I did the Watusi right in my den with them and it's the Mechanical Bull test next

When your right your Right






And when your wrong What!


----------



## Viber

Podster said:


> Now you know that is exactly what I thought and all I can say is I learn something new every day I mean truly So much so I did the Watusi right in my den with them and it's the Mechanical Bull test next
> 
> When your right your Right
> 
> ...



Yea, and you managed to take better pics than i could.  
Notice how the piece is conforming better to the ear in the 2nd pic.  This method should be in the instructions and marketing material imo.


----------



## Podster

Viber said:


> Yea, and you managed to take better pics than i could.
> Notice how the piece is conforming better to the ear in the 2nd pic.  This method should be in the instructions and marketing material imo.



I hear ya, it's just that I can't stand unsupported cables dangling from my sockets but we all have fit preferences. The photo's are courtesy of the manager of the house and part time photog  She took these and she gets credit where it's due Every time I see an iem in my ear I just get all sympathetic towards them simply for the places they have to hang out Seems brutal at best


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


>



Hey Pod, do you have a stock BA10 cable that you can try? I’m willing to bet that the 90 degree bend in the 2-pin connector will make this setup even more ideal...


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> Hey Pod, do you have a stock BA10 cable that you can try? I’m willing to bet that the 90 degree bend in the 2-pin connector will make this setup even more ideal...



Im using the 90 degree BT cable one btw.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Im using the 90 degree BT cable one btw.



Is the 90 degree plug a more natural fit? I would think it would point down and out less pressure on the connection


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> Is the 90 degree plug a more natural fit? I would think it would point down and out less pressure on the connection



I'm too lazy to post a pic, but it's pointing down and i feel as if there's nothing applying pressure on the connection or the IEM.  Mind you, i always use a shirt clip.
   I feel as if i replaced the ZS6 with something else TBH.  So much frustration avoided now... i still play with the fit out of habit, but the sound remains the same so there's no point in doing so.


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> Hey Pod, do you have a stock BA10 cable that you can try? I’m willing to bet that the 90 degree bend in the 2-pin connector will make this setup even more ideal...



You know I probably do but l’m also sure I can’t remember what they came with


----------



## n0de5

Happy New Year y'all.


----------



## r31ya (Jan 1, 2021)

Happy New Year.
Opening a new year with buying KZ DQ6 that i gonna give to my brother in law
problem being I'm not that well versed audio terms or have trained ear. I also don't have much to compare other than my daily driver TFZ King Pro+BTR5.

Initial impression as i'm used to my TFZ
- Seperation is great and feels a bit more airy than the TFZ well its a 3 driver iem.
- Soundstage is a bit cramped, in some more busy song the sound is a bit playing over another instead of beside another
- Bass is punchy have a enough rumble and a bit texture without being overly boomy or overpowering other sound, it still lacking in defined texture or rumble compared to King Pro but i think its better than ZS10 that i tried really awhile ago.
- Vocal is nice, its more forward than i initially thought, tough its a bit on thinner side
- Treble is very nice, still pretty detailed without being piercing.
- there is a vent that seems helping with the separation and airiness tough seems to leaks some sound.
- a bit problem with the fit as it does have that tail/curve instead of the KZ ZSN or ZS10 flatter profile.
- the new eartip is nicer to use than the hard starline.

For the price? Its highly recommended. I just bought Rock Space Obsidian for office gift exchange, while its a third of KZ DQ6 price (110k vs 300k in local currency)
But its night and day is quality. This is much more "proper" IEM compared to Obsidian.

Lets see whether more burn in will change the sound.


----------



## Nimweth

Cable Heaven! Left to Right: BA10 with Faaeal Hibiscus cable; ZS7 with TRI Through cable; CA16 with Limpid Pro.


----------



## Pelicampe

khighly said:


> My Z1's no longer charge after leaving them in my backpack for awhile unused. Anyone know of any KZ or other chifi TWS IEM's that are worth buying? The Z1 Pro's?



Take a look to FIIL T1 Pro, more neutral tuning than KZ and a loooooot better BT (plus 9h of battery).


----------



## voicemaster

Pelicampe said:


> Take a look to FIIL T1 Pro, more neutral tuning than KZ and a loooooot better BT (plus 9h of battery).


And 10 bands EQ in the app.


----------



## Pelicampe

Don't know if you have already tryed this in app EQ but it better to forget that... 
Compared to PowerEq it sound totaly synthetic and off. 

ANC is not really good too...



But sound is really great, touch control is nice and connectivity put my S2 in their box.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Cable Heaven! Left to Right: BA10 with Faaeal Hibiscus cable; ZS7 with TRI Through cable; CA16 with Limpid Pro.


Cable show time?


----------



## Viber

Pelicampe said:


> Take a look to FIIL T1 Pro, more neutral tuning than KZ and a loooooot better BT (plus 9h of battery).



Yesterday i bought the T1 lite for 32$, sound should be on par or better than the pros according to reviews. 
  I just hope it's on ZSR/zs6 level in terms of sound.


----------



## axhng (Jan 1, 2021)

khighly said:


> My Z1's no longer charge after leaving them in my backpack for awhile unused. Anyone know of any KZ or other chifi TWS IEM's that are worth buying? The Z1 Pro's?



Love the Z1 for its sound, but not so much the battery life, and the Z1 pro's rated 2 hours playback time is not encouraging at all. If that is true, my guess is they will become unusable in like half a year. FIIL's are pretty decent i think. Very well received by most. I have the T1XS and T1X and both are pretty good. It doesn't sound as "fun" as the Z1, but it's enjoyable enough. Though the fit is just meh. it's tight and secure which is good if you want better isolation, but the soundstage is a bit more in my head. the sound is also quite sensitive to fit imo. Also if you want to use them for sports there is more thumping sound from footsteps as well. The T1 Lite has a glowing review from Scarbir as well.

If you want a similar fit to the KZ Z1, the TRN T300 could be an option too, just reuse the KZ Z1 tips and you're good to go. Sound wise the TRN T300 will be more fun than the FIILs too and I actually enjoy using them more than the FIILs. Battery life isn't as good as the FIIL though, and they are more expensive as well. But you might be able to get more recommendation in the TWS thread.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Recently iv'e been wearing the *ZS6* in reverse (right piece in left ear, Left piece in Right ear, with the cable going downwards) + shallow TWS tips and let me tell ya - i get one of the best fits ever this way.  For some reason when it's upside down they sit comfortably on my ears and the nozzle never comes out.   Just a nice consistent sound throughout.
> 
> I advise everyone to try this with their ZS6s (maybe even ZS5).





Podster said:


> Now you know that is exactly what I thought and all I can say is I learn something new every day I mean truly So much so I did the Watusi right in my den with them and it's the Mechanical Bull test next



I was finally able to try out this channel swap + upside down trick tonight. Amazing! I love this setup with the ZS7.

As I suspected, it fits more naturally with the 90 degree 2-pin plugs (which is nice because the BT20 uses that style).


----------



## ChristianM

I got $10 compensation coupon from Aliexpress and I wanna upgrade my ZSX cable but I don't know much about cables. Should I go for silver plated cable or gold silver mixed cable?
thanks


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> Cable show time?


Ha ha that's great! I notice you have fitted the lilac Kinboofi cable to your BA10. Is that a good combination?


----------



## Wgibson

ChristianM said:


> I got $10 compensation coupon from Aliexpress and I wanna upgrade my ZSX cable but I don't know much about cables. Should I go for silver plated cable or gold silver mixed cable?
> thanks



The FAAEAL cables are super nice, currently my favorite 2.5mm balanced cables, but the 3.5mm are nice as well. Anything silver with the ZSX can be a little harsh for treble. The Hibiscus is actually a really good single DD, very flat bass response from 1khz down, but subbass can be easily boosted with some micropore tape for a more exciting sound. And the mid bass doesn't get muddy. Its still a single DD but done well. Cheap enough you can buy it just for the cable. If you need to do any real monitoring/mixing its a good neutral IEM.

Anyway, long live FAEEAL litz cables.


----------



## gr33nhorn

anyone who has a DQ6 and a ZS7? In my opinion, the ZS7 is the closest KZ came to a basshead IEM. everything else is just playing around with the highs and mids. 
I'm hearing nice things about the xun driver, and I'm hoping for a nice warm bassy set of DD IEMs - are the DQ6's close ?


----------



## r31ya

gr33nhorn said:


> anyone who has a DQ6 and a ZS7? In my opinion, the ZS7 is the closest KZ came to a basshead IEM. everything else is just playing around with the highs and mids.
> I'm hearing nice things about the xun driver, and I'm hoping for a nice warm bassy set of DD IEMs - are the DQ6's close ?



DQ6 is bassy enough for me.
It have decent punch, some rumble, and a bit of texture.  but it's not overpowering other sound or always present even tough the music doesn't call for it like Sony ExtraBass did.
So it's depend on how much bass do you need.

It's been awhile since i tried ZS7 (or ZS10), all i remember is how airy ZS7 is due to semi open back design and the boomy bass.
it's boomy and slower compared to tighter and faster bass in ZS10.
Also, my impression at the time the ZS7 and ZS10 didn't have proper texture or details compared to TFZ King series that i audition at the time.

I don't remember enough to do A-B comparison.
But if my memory right, i think DQ6 is a step up in rumble and texture compare to ZS10 and ZS7. Again, it's been really awhile since i tried those two.
DQ6 does have a bit of problem when it need to deal with double pedal. It's not fast enough so the sound kinda got muddled.

That being said, i barely use the DQ6 for around 10 hour, so burn in my change the sound a bit. not to mention stock cable and eartip. But so far, i'm impressed how "rounded" DQ6 is. especially my last daily drive KZ is the sharp ZS5.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Nimweth said:


> Cable Heaven! Left to Right: BA10 with Faaeal Hibiscus cable; ZS7 with TRI Through cable; CA16 with Limpid Pro.





PhonoPhi said:


> Cable show time?



Time to buy good 6N/7N OCC or SPOC, boys.


----------



## slex

PhonoPhi said:


> Cable show time?


Nice collection , do have silica gel desiccant when stored or you air dry them before storing? 😊


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 2, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> Ha ha that's great! I notice you have fitted the lilac Kinboofi cable to your BA10. Is that a good combination?


Lilac is a nice colour, and this Kinboofi cable is one of my first 16-core cables; somehow they came together with BA10 and are now inseparable. I did get and tried TRI Through for BA10 and AS10.
I did not find BA10 to be as cable sensitive as AS10 (different crossovers) and A10 (being all-BA at 15 Ohm and with sparkly treble, A10 served as a most sensitive IEM for cable testing).

I do prefer the cables without ear guides for the most flexibility of the fit. Fit is a very important factor for me with cables.

Then with all the cables, I hear very little difference with all of them - copper, spc, pure silver, when the resistance is less than 0.5 Ohm per wire.

@hakuzen  & @RikudouGoku have nice databases of cable measurements to consult.

Beyond the resistance measurements and the documented effect of resistance, there are hearing the difference and imagining the difference.
For the later, lilac,  blue and blue-green cables are my absolute favourites for the shimmering holographicity, expanding and extending above and beyond, and nicely accentuating the positives 

There are no measurements to prove any difference between pure copper and spc of the same thickness, and to suggest that OCC, SPOC are any better (and I am not even starting about graphene and palladium...)

So the nice lilac cable got the best match with BA10 for the colours, comfortable listening and overall most enjoyable listening experience


----------



## Nimweth

I bought the lilac cable to match my lilac KBEAR Lark, it looks great and sounds good too. I found that a pure copper cable works best with my BA10.


----------



## ChristianM (Jan 2, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> Cable show time?



what is that green cable with kz zsx?

oh i found it, it's **** cable


----------



## n0de5

Do switching cables really make a difference in sound? As long as its conductive shouldn't it make no difference in sound?


----------



## wopossum

PhonoPhi said:


> Cable show time?



Brown cable in the first column & third row, what it's called? Looks nice.


----------



## PhonoPhi

n0de5 said:


> Do switching cables really make a difference in sound? As long as its conductive shouldn't it make no difference in sound?


Switching cables does make a difference in sound! Largely changing from stock ones, and especially for low-impedance all-BA IEMs. 
Cables are all conductive indeed (a good observation!), but then their conductivity can be different being simply proportional to the thickness (hence bigger (OK, thicker) can be better.
Thin stock cables can easily add extra 2-3 Ohm to the circuit. Coupled with the strong frequency dependence of the IEM impedance, it leads to an easily perceptible difference.
So investing in a decent cable may worth it, even in the improved fit alone, and decent cables start at around $8; then a lot of nice cables for $15-$20 do the job perfectly.
Having said this, we are yet to see anyone clearly demonstrating the difference between spc and copper, etc, but the difference in resistance and its effect is real.



wopossum said:


> Brown cable in the first column & third row, what it's called? Looks nice.


Nicehck one that came with NX7 pro, it will be C series (?) 16-core. I like a bit more very similar (the same factory) KBear cables, they seem to put a bit of extra.


----------



## Slater

n0de5 said:


> Do switching cables really make a difference in sound? As long as its conductive shouldn't it make no difference in sound?



Resistance is different amongst different cables, which do make a difference in sound. Some cables are have a high resistance, and some have a very low resistance. That can make a noticeable difference, depending on certain other factors in the ‘audio chain’ such as source output impedance and the impedance curve of the driver.

As far as wire colors, etc no that’s just cosmetic.

Finally, as far as wire material making a difference (pure copper, silver plated copper, bi-color, pure silver, graphene mixed, gold plated, rhodium plated, diamond coated, cryogenically frozen, single crystal, OFC, etc), that is a decades old debate with no clear answer.


----------



## StacoHRP

Slater said:


> Resistance is different amongst different cables, which do make a difference in sound. Some cables are have a high resistance, and some have a very low resistance. That can make a noticeable difference, depending on certain other factors in the ‘audio chain’ such as source output impedance and the impedance curve of the driver.
> 
> As far as wire colors, etc no that’s just cosmetic.
> 
> Finally, as far as wire material making a difference (pure copper, silver plated copper, bi-color, pure silver, graphene mixed, gold plated, rhodium plated, diamond coated, cryogenically frozen, single crystal, OFC, etc), that is a decades old debate with no clear answer.



For me, resistance better at 8core > 4core.
Material: The pure copper added warm to the sound, pure silver added bright.


----------



## RikudouGoku

StacoHRP said:


> For me, resistance better at 8core > 4core.
> Material: The pure copper added warm to the sound, pure silver added bright.


At lower prices, I believe you are going to get lower resistance with 4 cores than 8 cores. Because 8 cores means 2 times the lenght of the wire and that costs more.


----------



## n0de5

Wait if different 3rd party wires add resistance can't you just solder on a really small value resistor somewhere on the wire or have a dongle which has a resistor on it?


----------



## RikudouGoku

n0de5 said:


> Wait if different 3rd party wires add resistance can't you just solder on a really small value resistor somewhere on the wire or have a dongle which has a resistor on it?


Pretty sure that would only increase the total resistance...


----------



## StacoHRP

RikudouGoku said:


> At lower prices, I believe you are going to get lower resistance with 4 cores than 8 cores. Because 8 cores means 2 times the lenght of the wire and that costs more.


I believe so. I tried once my friends Effect Audio 8core, my nicehck 8core seems sounds bad (same material). lol


----------



## Slater (Jan 2, 2021)

n0de5 said:


> Wait if different 3rd party wires add resistance can't you just solder on a really small value resistor somewhere on the wire or have a dongle which has a resistor on it?



You usually don’t want higher resistance, you want *lower* resistance.

Better quality 3rd party cables are almost always super low resistance. Some are so close to zero, you have to use a milliohm meter to even read them accurately.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> I was finally able to try out this channel swap + upside down trick tonight. Amazing! I love this setup with the ZS7.
> 
> As I suspected, it fits more naturally with the 90 degree 2-pin plugs (which is nice because the BT20 uses that style).



Wait a minute, WHAT?
How is the BT20 resisting gravity like that?
I thought the only caveat to this method was the inability to use to the TRN TWS adapters because the adapter has nothing to hold on to.


----------



## Slater (Jan 2, 2021)

Viber said:


> Wait a minute, WHAT?
> How is the BT20 resisting gravity like that?
> I thought the only caveat to this method was the inability to use to the TRN TWS adapters because the adapter has nothing to hold on to.



Thats an old trick. The BT20 style adapters work because they have a memory wire that holds its shape. In this case, it is what is allowing to resist gravity.

I forget who I learned it from, but they first shared the method on their mmcx modded MH755 (or maybe it was their Blon BL03, I don’t remember).

I wish I remember who it was - all credit goes to them for the genius idea 

I’ve used it that way a number of times, and it works great! Super comfortable.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> Thats an old trick. The BT20 style adapters work because they have a memory wire that holds its shape. In this case, it is what is allowing to resist gravity.
> 
> I forget who I learned it from, but they first shared the method on their mmcx modded MH755 (or maybe it was their Blon BL03, I don’t remember).
> 
> ...



Still, it means all the weight is carried by the nozzle right? I imagine it might break the seal while walking for example.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> Still, it means all the weight is carried by the nozzle right? I imagine it might break the seal while walking for example.



Ive never had it do that in any IEM I’ve tried it on. The BT20 is extremely light, and the BT20 module is being held by the outer ear.

I guess if you were jumping rope, using a pogo stick, or jumping on a trampoline, it might work loose, but I’ve never had any problems.


----------



## voicemaster

The bt20/S variant has a much stronger tension from the wire that connects to the IEM so it actually pretty secure unless you are doing backroll or jumping around. Unlike the previous version, the bt20s pro can't be used upside down because the unit themselves are heavier and the tension from the wire is not as strong as the previous version.


----------



## Viber

Slater said:


> Ive never had it do that in any IEM I’ve tried it on. The BT20 is extremely light, and the BT20 module is being held by the outer ear.
> 
> I guess if you were jumping rope, using a pogo stick, or jumping on a trampoline, it might work loose, but I’ve never had any problems.



I guess kz+memory wire instantly instigates bad memories of that horrible kz memory wire which did everything except keep the damn piece in the ear.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> I guess kz+memory wire instantly instigates bad memories of that horrible kz memory wire which did everything except keep the damn piece in the ear.



Yeah, this is nothing like a KZ memory wire.

The TRN actually holds its shape, which can actually be a bad thing sometimes, as not all earphone shells are compatible with each person’s individual ear anatomy


----------



## periott

Can anyone with KZ DQ6 do a quick comparison to ZS10 pro or ZSX?


----------



## purplesun

periott said:


> Can anyone with KZ DQ6 do a quick comparison to ZS10 pro or ZSX?


I did a short comparison against ZAX, which some people say sounds quite similar to ZSX.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16065842

TLDR: Sounds like a bassier/less trebly ZAX. There should be lots of DQ6 reviews coming up soon - with deliveries returning to normal after the holiday season.


----------



## RyuzakiL26

Just read through with the previous pages, and I got curious with BA10 and AS12. I'm currently satisfied with ZAX using a Nicechk Litzocc 4N cable and Xelastec tips.

Just want to know if those 2 will have a noticeable upgrade or just a sidegrade flavor that can be used depending on the mood 🤔😅


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 3, 2021)

Slater said:


> As far as the difference between v1 and v2, the big difference is the treble tuning was changed sometime in 2019 (ie ZS6 v2).
> 
> The v2 sounds totally different than all my other ZS6 v1. I don’t like the v2 sound at all. In trying to tone down the treble, KZ just made it way too distant and dark and closed in sounding.



Unfortunately, it is the same with the ZSR.

The ZSRv1 was tuned properly the first time, IMO.
The ZSRv2 is also *"way too distant and dark and closed in sounding."*





r31ya said:


> Initial impression  *(KZ DQ6)* as i'm used to my TFZ
> - Soundstage is a bit cramped, in some more busy song the sound is a bit playing over another instead of beside another




I do plan on swapping to a wider nozzle on one of my DQ6 so I'll find out if the stage presentation can be improved for the better or addressed with a *PhonoPhi nozzle mod*.





PhonoPhi said:


>



Those cables in the top two rows are top notch eye candy.






RyuzakiL26 said:


> Just read through with the previous pages, and I got curious with BA10 and AS12. I'm currently satisfied with ZAX using a Nicechk Litzocc 4N cable and Xelastec tips.
> 
> Just want to know if those 2 will have a noticeable upgrade or just a sidegrade flavor that can be used depending on the mood 🤔😅





....and this is how it all begins.








I don't own the ZAX, which is supposed to be an upgrade from the ZSX which was supposed to be an upgrade of the ZS10 Pro which I do have.

What I can tell you is that the BA10 and the AS12 are both uncommonly good for $70 give or take. The two models are also decidedly different despite both being all-BA models from KZ.

If I had to describe the BA10 in one word that word would be *"chilled"*.

If I had to describe the AS12 in one word that word would be *"clean"*.

Chilled in a "laid back" way and clean in a "does everything exceptionally well" way.

Don't misunderstand me though. The BA10 is also clean, it's just that its warmth is equally one of the BA10's defining characteristics. Warm and clean isn't easy to pull off for a sub-$100 all-BA offering but the BA10 does this very well.

The AS12 is more like the musician or vocalist that has been practicing for years and years. When the big day comes and it's time to perform they simply hit every note with ease as if it is second nature to them.

Nevertheless, to my ears, they are so different that I can not swap from the BA10 to the AS12 or the AS12 to the BA10 without it being a jarring experience. That'll just make your head explode so you'll need plenty of duct tape if you get both models.

That said, at the very least the BA10 and AS12 are equals.

To my ears and with my gear the AS12 levels things up a bit.

Going back through the thread only a handful of us have commented on the AS12 so I thought it best to provide some info since I own them.

What happens next is all too common in these parts.








Don't say you weren't warned.


----------



## Slater (Jan 3, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> Unfortunately, it is the same with the ZSR.
> 
> The ZSRv1 was tuned properly the first time, IMO.
> The ZSRv2 is also *"way too distant and dark and closed in sounding."*



Wow, I was unaware that the ZSR has been retuned.

What is up with KZ going back and retuning all of these old models?

And if they spend time and effort to retune it, why not at least advertise it somehow so people are aware of it and can try the new version? I just don’t understand their logic


----------



## Podster (Jan 3, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> ....and this is how it all begins.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm, I don't know. Seems rather large for Rabbit 

I also concur on the cable eye candy, I went thru that whole cable phase with those!


----------



## purplesun (Jan 3, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> I do plan on swapping to a wider nozzle on one of my DQ6 so I'll find out if the stage presentation can be improved for the better or addressed with a *PhonoPhi nozzle mod*.



At this rate, we might as well be producing our own 3D-printed KZ replacement nozzles. Different size and filter holes count!
There could be a worldwide market of 3 customers!

Hmmm....... 

EDIT:
Think I'm done "tuning" DQ6 into something I'm happy to live with. Qudelix 5K (2.5mm) >> TRN T3 silver cable >> Starline tips. Decent highs, slightly warm mids and a bass that's always ready to steal the show!


----------



## ChristianM

can anybody help me with a cable around $10 for kz zsx that I use with fiio m3k?
I'm confused with silver only and gold +silver and copper + silver and just copper.


----------



## purplesun

ChristianM said:


> can anybody help me with a cable around $10 for kz zsx that I use with fiio m3k?
> I'm confused with silver only and gold +silver and copper + silver and just copper.


The KZ gold/silver colour cable, I recently found out, made DQ6 sound warmer vs the regular stock white cable (I think it's silver-plated). Not tried the rest.


----------



## Alpha Whale

Slater said:


> Wow, I was unaware that the ZSR has been retuned.
> 
> What is up with KZ going back and retuning all of these old models?
> 
> And if they spend time and effort to retune it, why not at least advertise it somehow so people are aware of it and can try the new version? I just don’t understand their logic



It was a huge disappointment when all of the backup ZSRs I ordered had a different tuning than my original set. I was so disappointed. The v1 had the perfect amount of top end air and low end kick with a fairly good midrange. The v2 has lost the air. KZ dialed back the treble while thickening the bass. It's too slow and overwhelming. The ZSRv1 sounds like the ED16 with a much wider soundstage despite the ZSR's slight increase to its midbass punch. Unfortunately, while the ED16 is a very good in-ear, I prefer the ZSRv1 for its wider soundstage and thicker low end tuning. After my disappointment I actually had to order the last few ED16s available on Amazon so I could get as close to the ZSRv1 sound signature as possible. I can EQ them for midbass punch but the ZSRv1's super wide soundstage is reigned in on the ED16. The ZSRv2's  wide soundstage is present but the presentation sounds veiled and dark in comparison. 

IMO, KZ retuned the ZSR due to criticism in some reviews about the upper treble. Crinacle's graphs show a ridiculous spike at approximately 8khz but the treble on my ZSRv1 doesn't sound anywhere near that peaky. Anyway, when KZ retuned the ZSR they ruined it. My three backup ZSR's were a total of $75 (still have them). I should have returned them but I thought that perhaps I could open up a set and see if it's possible for me to work around KZ's neurotic behavior. Problem is my reluctance to risk damaging the only set of v1's I own. 

It took a while but I've gotten over it because the BA10 and AS12 have superior tuning but the $75 could have gone towards a third BA10 or a handful of upgrade cables. 

This is why I order multiple sets when they release something interesting. They typically, but not always, tune things right the first time (*ZS1, ZS5, ZS6 and ZSR*). Later, in an attempt to please everyone, they ruin not only the tuning but the very thing that made the model so entertaining. 

One ZSRv1 and a few ED16s is plenty since they all work flawlessly and I only use them intermittently but the maladjusted tuning or any re-tuning *without warning* is simply unacceptable.

Still looking forward to the DQ6 and whatever else they may have on the drawing board.


----------



## ChristianM

purplesun said:


> The KZ gold/silver colour cable, I recently found out, made DQ6 sound warmer vs the regular stock white cable (I think it's silver-plated). Not tried the rest.


thanks for reply
I checked this cable
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000156128951.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.24302e0elY9PQy

it looks nice, some people notice the difference in sound and some don't.


----------



## purplesun

Alpha Whale said:


> This is why I order multiple sets when they release something interesting. They typically, but not always, tune things right the first time (*ZS1, ZS5, ZS6 and ZSR*). Later, in an attempt to please everyone, they ruin not only the tuning but the very thing that made the model so entertaining.


It's also my habit to order a spare set whenever I hear something I like. I had ordered 2 x C10 months apart; the first one was darker sounding while the second one was slightly more trebly, even after months of playing. So now, I order a second IEM quite quickly after the first one.


----------



## ChristianM (Jan 3, 2021)

...


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

n0de5 said:


> Do switching cables really make a difference in sound? As long as its conductive shouldn't it make no difference in sound?


Hi, I haven't used OFC or SPC cables in a long time. I'm not interested in resistance, but in sound and their performance isn't sufficient for me. Bass is muddy, mids are thin and treble hasn't nice high-end sparkle.

OCC cables, even 6N aren't expensive anymore and if you try one, you will be revarded with deep and fast bass, warmer and detailed mids, extended airy treble.
SPOC cables are good for earphones with darker sounding treble, like as10 (and maybe ASF/X), because they shift sound to the brighter tone. 

... these are general findings that I have observed from several sources.


----------



## RyuzakiL26

Alpha Whale said:


> Unfortunately, it is the same with the ZSR.
> 
> The ZSRv1 was tuned properly the first time, IMO.
> The ZSRv2 is also *"way too distant and dark and closed in sounding."*
> ...




Thanks for this! I'm looking to replace my TRN V90 as I cannot stand the too much V-sound sig of it. I might go with both iems as I think I can use them the way I interchange my use of Blon-01, Blon-03 and ZAX 😅 - that way I can assign a specific weeks of usage for each (just trying to counter the rabbit hole argument 😅)


----------



## r31ya (Jan 3, 2021)

RyuzakiL26 said:


> Thanks for this! I'm looking to replace my TRN V90 as I cannot stand the too much V-sound sig of it. I might go with both iems as I think I can use them the way I interchange my use of Blon-01, Blon-03 and ZAX 😅 - that way I can assign a specific weeks of usage for each (just trying to counter the rabbit hole argument 😅)



say, which one better between Blon-01 and Blon-03? My DQ6 money suppose to be used for one of those, but got tempted by KZ multi dynamic which are supposed to be more "rounded" in sq.



purplesun said:


> At this rate, we might as well be producing our own 3D-printed KZ replacement nozzles. Different size and filter holes count!
> There could be a worldwide market of 3 customers!
> 
> Hmmm.......
> ...



uuh... All of my cable are 2 pin 0.78 and my tips are widebore (for my TFZ), basically cannot be used for KZ DQ6. 

I tempted to try to force my 0.78 into DQ6 but i'm afraid i'm gonna ruin the cable fitting.


----------



## purplesun

r31ya said:


> uuh... All of my cable are 2 pin 0.78 and my tips are widebore (for my TFZ), basically cannot be used for KZ DQ6.
> 
> I tempted to try to force my 0.78 into DQ6 but i'm afraid i'm gonna ruin the cable fitting.


Yah, the normal-sized wide bores spins around the thin nozzles quite easily.
There's not much difference between 0.75mm to 0.78mm pins. For testing, don't push the pins flush; if you are worried about ruining them (it shouldn't)


----------



## r31ya (Jan 3, 2021)

purplesun said:


> Yah, the normal-sized wide bores spins around the thin nozzles quite easily.
> There's not much difference between 0.75mm to 0.78mm pins. For testing, don't push the pins flush; if you are worried about ruining them (it shouldn't)



ok, a mild push manage to fit my Yin*oo 0.78 (i genuinely forgot what cable this suppose to be) into the DQ6... the SQ change quite significantly.
It get warmer. sounds, vocal especially get thicker. It feels the sounds blends together, but the clarity feels lowered.

I'll try with my other cable but i need to find it first. and my most tips spins freely on this thin nozzle...


----------



## RyuzakiL26

r31ya said:


> say, which one better between Blon-01 and Blon-03? My DQ6 money suppose to be used for one of those, but got tempted by KZ multi dynamic which are supposed to be more "rounded" in sq.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would suggest to check the separate thread for it as there had been some several debate on 01 vs. 03. In the meantime, i like the shell fitting of the ZAX thus, I'm hoping that AS12 and BA10 will fit just fine on my ears 😅


----------



## ChristianM

Which cable provide warm and relaxed sound? only copper or copper silver mixed or gold silver mixed?


----------



## requal

ChristianM said:


> Which cable provide warm and relaxed sound? only copper or copper silver mixed or gold silver mixed?


OCC copper. Most smooth.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 3, 2021)

RyuzakiL26 said:


> I would suggest to check the separate thread for it as there had been some several debate on 01 vs. 03. In the meantime, i like the shell fitting of the ZAX thus, I'm hoping that AS12 and BA10 will fit just fine on my ears 😅



Be sure to review all of the BA10 reviews at your disposal.  Fitment has been an issue for some and not others. If you have small ears you may have an issue. Also, in order to get deeper insertion it is recommended that you cut the collar off of a set of any unused eartips you may have at home and use the collar as a stopgap. Podster does this for better extension. It keeps the BA10 corner hotspots from touching the ear.

BA10 Reviews:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ba10-knowledge-zenith.23310/reviews

https://www.soundphilereview.com/reviews/kz-ba10-review-2998/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/primeaudio.org/kz-ba10-review/amp/



YouTubers


Spoiler










Some reviewers find that the AS10 and BA10 sound similar but not the same.
I mention this because the AS10 fit is very similar to the AS12 fit. PhonoPhi may be able to shed some light on fitment and sound signature comparisons between the BA10 and AS10 and maybe even the AS10 and AS12.

There are those that really hate the BA10 and those of us that really love the BA10.

You'll have to trust your own ears on this one.

Please, let us know your findings if you pick up a set. In particular, it would be great to hear your feedback on the BA10's dynamic-like lower frequencies.

It's hard to believe that a balanced armature is delivering with such weight and fullness.





My BA10 set-up.



Spoiler









I swapped faceplates on my BA10.








I trimmed the shroud of these QDC connectors with a razor blade so they would sit flush the way the original connectors sit.


----------



## Danjen22

Hi, I was hoping to get some more recommendations for IEMs. I have KZ ate and CCA C12. I love the C12 with the gold/silver cable and symbio w tips. I have low frequency hearing loss in my left ear so I like a warm sound and narrow soundstage otherwise the bass is only in the right ear  and the treble to harsh in my left. I have a pair of sennheiser momentum 2 over ears which I can no longer use as the soundstage is too wide. Music is mainly country, some rock and hip hop. These will be used with a LG V50.

Thanks


----------



## n0de5

I was looking through the AutoEQ github page and I saw this:



What are ZS6 (close) and ZS6 (open)?


----------



## RyuzakiL26

Alpha Whale said:


> Be sure to review all of the BA10 reviews at your disposal.  Fitment has been an issue for some and not others. If you have small ears you may have an issue. Also, in order to get deeper insertion it is recommended that you cut the collar off of a set of any unused eartips you may have at home and use the collar as a stopgap. Podster does this for better extension. It keeps the BA10 corner hotspots from touching the ear.
> 
> BA10 Reviews:
> 
> ...




Thanks for the advise! Yes, I've made similar mod with Blon-01 due to short stem and terrible shell fit. If the length of the stem from the base is the same with the ZAX, then I think it will fit on stock config, but will utilize the mod if the edges becomes to bothersome XD.

Will wait for Shopee sale as I've been planning to buy NM2+, AS12 and B10, each set will have a week of use so I can draw some conclusion and share it here 🍻


----------



## wopossum

n0de5 said:


> I was looking through the AutoEQ github page and I saw this:
> 
> What are ZS6 (close) and ZS6 (open)?


Basically, zs6(open) is their standard variant, zs6(close) is a variant where you close the vent ports on the shell with something(duct tape for example or anything else), usually, it improves the bass frequencies but it also has some side effects. It depends on what you're trying to get from them. You're free to any experiments though.


----------



## requal

I have done some serious tip rolling with my ASX yesterday, and I must admit, that I can't listen to them with other one than with ePro. In first moment I doesn't know what happed..  I didn't recognise that sound changed as much. So.. sound was TOO thick/bold and with TOO much weight and everything was TOO technic. When I have back to them everything was fine again.
 ePro isn't ideal because these short and thin nozzles are not perfectly fiting to sleeve of tip.. but sound wise everything have normal timbre and weight..
So I can't recommend ASX for anybody without ePro tips - this time this is only cure for those. If somebody bought Asx and you cannot listen to them you should to try it.
With Asf it isn't so dificult, normal tips works well.


----------



## n0de5

wopossum said:


> Basically, zs6(open) is their standard variant, zs6(close) is a variant where you close the vent ports on the shell with something(duct tape for example or anything else), usually, it improves the bass frequencies but it also has some side effects. It depends on what you're trying to get from them. You're free to any experiments though.


Closing vents usually results in driver flex, right? In what ways does it affect the sound when driver flex occurs?


----------



## baskingshark

n0de5 said:


> Closing vents usually results in driver flex, right? In what ways does it affect the sound when driver flex occurs?



U here a crinkling sound (like a plastic wrapper being crumpled) when inserting the IEM to your ear.

There's lots of speculation whether driver flex can damage the driver. I've written in to a few manufacturers, they claim driver flex won't harm the driver. But I've seen a few anecdotal reports on audio forums that their IEM driver died after a bad case of driver flex.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 4, 2021)

RyuzakiL26 said:


> Will wait for Shopee sale as I've been planning to buy NM2+, AS12 and B10, each set will have a week of use so I can draw some conclusion and share it here 🍻



Looking forward to your feedback.



baskingshark said:


> U here a crinkling sound (like a plastic wrapper being crumpled) when inserting the IEM to your ear.
> 
> There's lots of speculation whether driver flex can damage the driver. I've written in to a few manufacturers, they claim driver flex won't harm the driver. But I've seen a few anecdotal reports on audio forums that their IEM driver died after a bad case of driver flex.



Driver flex killed a handful of my early KZ models (HDS3, ED3 and an ED10) way back in 2015 just prior to KZ's meteoric rise. The flexing would occur and the volume would drop 80 - 90%. Unfortunately, it just got worse over time so replacements were necessary.



Meanwhile, back at the ranch





I didn't catch this earlier but I should have.

When ordering my DQ6 I opted for both colors (silver and gray).







You'll have to search for the seller that offers the DQ6 with the copper QDC cable. I forget which one it was.


Apparently, a black DQ6 is also being offered.





VERY COOL!

Still waiting for my first two sets to arrive and I'm not sure which color will get the *PhonoPhi nozzle mod* but, yes, my third DQ6 will definitely be in black.


Just curious, has anyone shown any interest in either of these two new models yet?










and lastly, a note to KZ/CCA:

Please release an *AS12 Pro* (same exact tuning *and nozzles* but install the "s" model BAs. To my ears it is the only improvement that is necessary.

Thank you for monitoring this thread.


----------



## StacoHRP

Alpha Whale said:


> Driver flex killed a handful of my early KZ models (HDS3, ED3 and an ED10) way back in 2015 just prior to KZ's meteoric rise. The flexing would occur and the volume would drop 80 - 90%. Unfortunately, it just got worse over time so replacements were necessary.



I have problem with my T2+ that volume drop on Left side because it's so much suction. Can it be the driver flex too? Despite it not make crack/crinkling sound? 
I thought my left ear the problem, but switching to my trusty edm genre iem the ZSN Pro, it's the T2+ has the problem.
Should i make replacement?


----------



## Alpha Whale

StacoHRP said:


> I have problem with my T2+ that volume drop on Left side because it's so much suction. Can it be the driver flex too? Despite it not make crack/crinkling sound?
> I thought my left ear the problem, but switching to my trusty edm genre iem the ZSN Pro, it's the T2+ has the problem.
> Should i make replacement?



If it were me I would get them replaced. Things could get worse over time. Two of my aforementioned in-ears did not make the crinkling sound but the volume did drop as the suction pressure changed and they did need to be replaced. 

Glad I replaced them. I still enjoy all three earphones today because I got them replaced.


----------



## wopossum

n0de5 said:


> Closing vents usually results in driver flex, right? In what ways does it affect the sound when driver flex occurs?



I bet you were trying to ask how it affects the sound theoretically? Because driver flex is not the reason. I'm not a technician but afaik, low frequencies usually create way more pressure than anything above. It has something to do with the wave length. When you're closing the vents port, pressure builds up inside the earphone and then leaves right into your ear. That is probably how it works.


----------



## baskingshark

StacoHRP said:


> I have problem with my T2+ that volume drop on Left side because it's so much suction. Can it be the driver flex too? Despite it not make crack/crinkling sound?
> I thought my left ear the problem, but switching to my trusty edm genre iem the ZSN Pro, it's the T2+ has the problem.
> Should i make replacement?



It may or may not be driver flex.


Other possibilities for intermittent sound cut out are:

1) Tin T2 Plus has famous (or rather infamous) QC issues with their MMCX, just see the forums. My set is affected too, it spins like a weather vane at the MMCX and this can cause intermittent sound cut out. Have u tried another cable with it? If it spins too loosely, u can be adventerous and try to splay open the female side MMCX (do at your own risk), or just send it back.

2) Another less common cause of intermittent sound cut out is due to moisture build up in nozzles of some IEMs (with longer listening sessions), infamous in the TRN BA5, LZ A6, LZ A6 Mini. For these cases, u gotta dry the nozzles or just use it for shorter sessions, kind of a design issue due to the mesh properties at the nozzle.


----------



## StacoHRP (Jan 4, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> If it were me I would get them replaced. Things could get worse over time. Two of my aforementioned in-ears did not make the crinkling sound but the volume did drop as the suction pressure changed and they did need to be replaced.
> 
> Glad I replaced them. I still enjoy all three earphones today because I got them replaced.



Ugh.. So unlucky.
I never have problem before buying chi-fi product from KZ ZSN, ZSNPro, ZS10Pro even dongle like Sonata HD Pro and some cable.
Will contact the seller tho since it still have warranty product.



baskingshark said:


> It may or may not be driver flex.
> 
> 
> Other possibilities for intermittent sound cut out are:
> ...



I think so it may or not because of.
But..
1.) When i try swivel the problem side of earpice mmcx, it nothing happen. I dont have any spare mmcx cable tho to check this. And the mmcx is not loosely it's even firmly attached.

2.) This is what i suspect too. But it happen even when i first minute listening after a long time rotation from another iem. But, how to check this?


----------



## baskingshark

StacoHRP said:


> Ugh.. So unlucky.
> I never have problem before buying chi-fi product from KZ ZSN, ZSNPro, ZS10Pro even dongle like Sonata HD Pro and some cable.
> Will contact the seller tho since it have guarantee product.
> 
> ...



I haven't heard of Tin T2 Plus having a moisture condensation issue, so it is probably less likely. But u can try putting the IEM in a bag of rice overnight, or put it in a container with dessicants. Or best still, just return it for a refund/warranty if possible.


----------



## purplesun

Alpha Whale said:


> Just curious, has anyone shown any interest in either of these two new models yet?



That would be me, ordered CKX on the last day of last year! Was intrigued by the new KZ shell (appears to be full metal) and looks to have regular-sized nozzles. Worth a punt for a 7-transducer-per-side IEM around the price of ZAX ($60+).


----------



## StacoHRP

baskingshark said:


> I haven't heard of Tin T2 Plus having a moisture condensation issue, so it is probably less likely. But u can try putting the IEM in a bag of rice overnight, or put it in a container with dessicants. Or best still, just return it for a refund/warranty if possible.



It's confirmed by my wife and lil brother ears that this iem is imbalance. Will ship for replacement warranty, love how the T2Plus sounds and it's sidegrade from KZ's.

Thanks for answering sir


----------



## BubisUK

Received KZ DQ6 just now  The shell is almost same size as CCA CA16 and not as big as KZ ASX/ASF. Overall really nice build for the price. Will listen to them later and share my 2p


----------



## snowmind

My thoughts are now on DQ6. Is this an evolution or is it just another one with an artificial KZ signature?


----------



## KCSweden

Got in touch with KZ through AliExpress asking if the Z1 Pro is carrying the same XUN driver as the normal Z1 - just got the short but clear answer "yes.".


Slater said:


> Looks interesting; nice find!
> 
> 2 things I noticed:
> 
> ...


----------



## n0de5

Yay my ZS6's are coming today! Will update and take pics when it comes.


----------



## Winni (Jan 4, 2021)

snowmind said:


> My thoughts are now on DQ6. Is this an evolution or is it just another one with an artificial KZ signature?



It's definitely an upgrade, the tuning is pretty smooth without piercing mid or high frequencies, with a pronounced mid and subbass. Way more mature then many other KZ IEMs, I definataly didn't expect that. 

In comparison to the EDX: the EDX is only listenable for me with the Comply TX400 foams with wax guard filter, as it dampens the most piercing frequencies.
With the DQ6, even at very high volumes, i didn't have a feeling, that the highs or mids are too much. 

All in all, it's definately an upgrade to the EDX tuning wise, when you like more smooth and mature tuning. 

On the other hand, the DQ6 sounds due the more mature tuning less "fun" and engaging, i find them personally lil bit boring. It's nothing wow like, it doesn't really stand out compared to my other IEMs. 

The biggest minus point for me, is the fit: the nozzle is pretty short and thin, so it doesn't instert deep enough in my ear. Due the thin nozzle, my comply T400 foams doesn't fit, as they are too big. Only with longer silicone nozzles from other IEMs (the included ones are ridiculously short), I could achieve a good seal, but it never felt really secure enough, for more spirited walking for example. 

Compared to the Tiandirenhe TD06: The fit on the TD06 is superb compared to DQ6, much longer and anatomic shaped nozzle, no issues with fit on the TD06. TD06 is much bassier with a rumbling subbass, with harsher mids, but with a wider soundstage. I thought the TD06 had a narrow soundstage, but the DQ6 are even narrower. For my music taste (EDM), the TD06 wins without a doubt 😊


----------



## Tonymac136

snowmind said:


> My thoughts are now on DQ6. Is this an evolution or is it just another one with an artificial KZ signature?



No, this is different again. I've just set mine up and put literally the first pair of tips I could find that fit my ears on to them. Meant to listen quickly, ended up listening for a couple of hours. 
Straight out of the box they sound better than my EDXs do with an aftermarket cable and tips that are more expensive than the EDX itself. 
Natural timbre, a gentle lift in the treble and bass over neutral and small soundstage but good detail retrieval are my first impressions. I prefer this to any CCA or KZ numberwang hybrid models I've heard.
Its only real issue is that it's launching into a VERY saturated market, competing with the Blon BL01 and BL03 for starters in the pure DD stakes, plus any one of a number of hybrids also around for the price.
It is easy to drive though, highish impedance of 24 ohms but 112db sensitivity means it will play nicely with a phone. This is important for anyone considering it vs the BL01 which is much harder to drive


----------



## Backsplash7

Freetrademan said:


> While I'm at it, I might as well rattle off my headphones, too:
> Koss A130, Sennheiser HD520-ii, Sennheiser HD598, Sennheiser HD518, Shure SRH840, Monoprice 8323, Sennheiser HD202, Grado SR80e, Sennheiser HD600, Bang & Olufsen H6, OPPO PM-3, Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7, Sennheiser Momentum On-Ear, Philips Fidelio L2, Philips Fidelio X2, Koss PortaPro, Koss/Massdrop PortaPro X, Monoprice PHP1169, Monolith M1060 Planar, Sennheiser HD598cs, Sennheiser/Massdrop HD6xx, HiFiMan / Massdrop HE4xx, Monoprice BT-300ANC, Stax L700mk2 + D10 amp, 1More Triple Driver Headphone, Koss KPH30i


I cant find much information about the HD520 I or II floating around, just wondering what your impressions of them are, and how these compare with the HD600?


----------



## saldsald

Winni said:


> It's definitely an upgrade, the tuning is pretty smooth without piercing mid or high frequencies, with a pronounced mid and subbass. Way more mature then many other KZ IEMs, I definataly didn't expect that.
> 
> In comparison to the EDX: the EDX is only listenable for me with the Comply TX400 foams with wax guard filter, as it dampens the most piercing frequencies.
> With the DQ6, even at very high volumes, i didn't have a feeling, that the highs or mids are too much.
> ...



I would like to add that the DQ6 is quite sensitive to cable rolling and I have settled with the 4-core copper cable that came with my BQEYZ spring 2. I think most 4-core copper cable would sound good with this pair. I also tried a few 8-core cables and I hear saturation of the bottom end and occasional distortion.


----------



## Slater

snowmind said:


> is it just another one with an artificial KZ signature?



Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Do you mean how the tonality of BA drivers (used in hybrid and all-BA models) can have an unnatural tonality to them?

or do you mean something else?


----------



## roylan667

KCSweden said:


> Got in touch with KZ through AliExpress asking if the Z1 Pro is carrying the same XUN driver as the normal Z1 - just got the short but clear answer "yes.".



Really? That is suprising that they use the same XUN driver but did not put it in the brochure, considering it got buzzword of "new generation dynamic unit". I guess I would never understand KZ promotional strategy.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

wopossum said:


> Okay, so stupidest question ever, but whatever. Could you guys share your opinion? Do current models from TRN/KZ/CCA/TFZ (KZ ZAX, CCA CA16, TRN VX, TFZ T2 as an example) sound generally MUCH better than the Apple AirPods and AirPods Pro? I know it's weird to compare wired earphones to wireless but I'm trying to compare something mainstream-ish with what we got with Chi-Fi.


Yes.


----------



## Slater

roylan667 said:


> Really? That is suprising that they use the same XUN driver but did not put it in the brochure, considering it got buzzword of "new generation dynamic unit". I guess I would never understand KZ promotional strategy.



Who knows, KZs marketing department makes some wacky decisions:


----------



## Podster

Alpha Whale said:


> If it were me I would get them replaced. Things could get worse over time. Two of my aforementioned in-ears did not make the crinkling sound but the volume did drop as the suction pressure changed and they did need to be replaced.
> 
> Glad I replaced them. I still enjoy all three earphones today because I got them replaced.



I concur, seems a defective pair! I've had zero issues with mine and they are what the doctor had always called for in the T2 series


----------



## Slater

Podster said:


> I concur, seems a defective pair! I've had zero issues with mine and they are what the doctor had always called for in the T2 series



I agree; I’ve been waiting a long time for TinAudio to finally ‘fix’ the T2 series. It’s just unfortunate that it took 3 years to do so.


----------



## snowmind

Slater said:


> Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?
> 
> Do you mean how the tonality of BA drivers (used in hybrid and all-BA models) can have an unnatural tonality to them?
> 
> or do you mean something else?



Friend, exactly. I meant that the tone of BAs sounds very thin and digital, in analytical terms they work well, but for music it can offend the listener if he has some kind of sensitivity - which is common, by the way. In addition, the popular KZ tuning is not very natural, the timbre sounds strange on some models.

Don't think I'm a KZ detractor, I still like my collection, but they don't work much while Blon, Tin Audio has more intelligent and musical tunings. I would like KZ to surprise again as he did in the past.


----------



## voicemaster

snowmind said:


> Friend, exactly. I meant that the tone of BAs sounds very thin and digital, in analytical terms they work well, but for music it can offend the listener if he has some kind of sensitivity - which is common, by the way. In addition, the popular KZ tuning is not very natural, the timbre sounds strange on some models.
> 
> Don't think I'm a KZ detractor, I still like my collection, but they don't work much while Blon, Tin Audio has more intelligent and musical tunings. I would like KZ to surprise again as he did in the past.


The newer KZs don't have this thin and digital sound. For timbre, they are getting better tho still won't beat a single DD iem. The DQ6 with 3 DD should naturally offer a better timbre.


----------



## Slater

snowmind said:


> Friend, exactly. I meant that the tone of BAs sounds very thin and digital, in analytical terms they work well, but for music it can offend the listener if he has some kind of sensitivity - which is common, by the way. In addition, the popular KZ tuning is not very natural, the timbre sounds strange on some models.
> 
> Don't think I'm a KZ detractor, I still like my collection, but they don't work much while Blon, Tin Audio has more intelligent and musical tunings. I would like KZ to surprise again as he did in the past.



Unfortunately, that’s not a KZ thing. That’s pretty much all BAs. Even Etymotics that use the BA drivers can sound artificial in tonality when compared to the ER2SE for example (which uses a dynamic driver).

That’s why if I was stuck on a desert island for the rest of my life, and I had to choose between an all-BA, a hybrid, and a dynamic earphone, I would go with the dynamic in a heartbeat.


----------



## snowmind

voicemaster said:


> The newer KZs don't have this thin and digital sound. For timbre, they are getting better tho still won't beat a single DD iem. The DQ6 with 3 DD should naturally offer a better timbre.



Not only when it comes to BA, but the KZ tuning itself lacks an organic timbre, the note's tone is slightly thin and strident even on simple DD models - demonstrating this on the EDX, although they really should move on. Give these men credit, let them work.


----------



## Podster

snowmind said:


> Friend, exactly. I meant that the tone of BAs sounds very thin and digital, in analytical terms they work well, but for music it can offend the listener if he has some kind of sensitivity - which is common, by the way. In addition, the popular KZ tuning is not very natural, the timbre sounds strange on some models.
> 
> Don't think I'm a KZ detractor, I still like my collection, but they don't work much while Blon, Tin Audio has more intelligent and musical tunings. I would like KZ to surprise again as he did in the past.



Hmm, I will admit KZ has had an off day (model) every once in a while but can't agree totally on the BA thing cause these babies right here are in my top 5 iem's ever and once again my favorite all BA iem period  Not that I'm doubting you as "We all do hear them just a little differently" but I still believe KZ hits far more out the park for the buying dollar than not

I'll tell you something else, this entire setup cost me a whopping $112 w/cable and will wipe the floor on some $300 rigs I own (at least as I hear it) but of course ymmv


----------



## snowmind

Slater said:


> Unfortunately, that’s not a KZ thing. That’s pretty much all BAs. Even Etymotics that use the BA drivers can sound artificial in tonality when compared to the ER2SE for example (which uses a dynamic driver).
> 
> That’s why if I was stuck on a desert island for the rest of my life, and I had to choose between an all-BA, a hybrid, and a dynamic earphone, I would go with the dynamic in a heartbeat.



Personally, I really like KZs in terms of construction, they would be huge killers if they hit the sound because the fit, the construction and the accessories are better than the competition (Blon, I'm looking at you ... your cable looks like an offense) .

I'm actually facing a dilemma, now I have the BL-01 and I like it because it's very musical and silky, I would like to know if it's time to get rid of them by betting on DQ6.


----------



## snowmind

Podster said:


> Hmm, I will admit KZ has had an off day (model) every once in a while but can't agree totally on the BA thing cause these babies right here are in my top 5 iem's ever and once again my favorite all BA iem period  Not that I'm doubting you as "We all do hear them just a little differently" but I still believe KZ hits far more out the park for the buying dollar than not
> 
> I'll tell you something else, this entire setup cost me a whopping $112 w/cable and will wipe the floor on some $300 rigs I own (at least as I hear it) but of course ymmv



Oh, that looks so good, I would like to hear them. I have ZS10 Pro, first ZSN and ZSX.


----------



## ZAXon 7

are the DQ6 and the NM2+ comparable?


----------



## Slater

ZAXon 7 said:


> are the DQ6 and the NM2+ comparable?



ive personally never heard the NM2+, but just keep in mind that the DQ6 is an entry/budget level $20 earphone.


----------



## Podster (Jan 5, 2021)

snowmind said:


> Oh, that looks so good, I would like to hear them. I have ZS10 Pro, first ZSN and ZSX.



@Slater , Tell him easy big boy! Those Blon's are a keeper and should always be re-visited 

Snow, I have all those model's and the BA-10's are a nice compliment to all of them and may throw you at first cause all BA does sound different than DD or Hybrid's but the execution of the BA-10 is just crazy good but as I always say WAHTALD (ymmv) but if they fit you and you get that killer seal you will be amazed Fit for large iem's has never been a problem for me, now nozzle length is a whole nutha story As you can see from Shrek's big old bald head big iem's just seem to become comfortable cave dwellers


----------



## Tonymac136

snowmind said:


> Personally, I really like KZs in terms of construction, they would be huge killers if they hit the sound because the fit, the construction and the accessories are better than the competition (Blon, I'm looking at you ... your cable looks like an offense) .
> 
> I'm actually facing a dilemma, now I have the BL-01 and I like it because it's very musical and silky, I would like to know if it's time to get rid of them by betting on DQ6.



DQ6 is easier to drive, has a much better cable and some chance of fitting without aftermarket tips. It's totally slightly brighter and seems to have better technicalities than the BL01. Soundstage is more restricted though. It's very intimate. 

I've not done any serious comparative listening between the two yet though. One doesn't stand out as being a whole lot "better" than the other. Just "different". To my ears the Blon is a tad more comfortable, and the unit itself seems better built, but that's so subjective I'm not even gonna commit to that.


----------



## Tonymac136

Slater said:


> ive personally never heard the NM2+, but just keep in mind that the DQ6 is an entry/budget level $20 earphone.



That's very true but I'd bet that most people could consider a seriously budget IEM as endgame or virtually endgame if the tuning and tonality fitted their exact requirements completely. From what I've heard of the DQ6, it's definitely gonna be that for somebody.


----------



## snowmind

Tonymac136 said:


> DQ6 is easier to drive, has a much better cable and some chance of fitting without aftermarket tips. It's totally slightly brighter and seems to have better technicalities than the BL01. Soundstage is more restricted though. It's very intimate.
> 
> I've not done any serious comparative listening between the two yet though. One doesn't stand out as being a whole lot "better" than the other. Just "different". To my ears the Blon is a tad more comfortable, and the unit itself seems better built, but that's so subjective I'm not even gonna commit to that.



Thanks for your words. In your opinion, which has the best note tone and timbre?


----------



## Tonymac136

snowmind said:


> Thanks for your words. In your opinion, which has the best note tone and timbre?



For me, personally, the BL01. The DQ6 is a shade sharper on the attack. Saying that, the DQ6 responds much more readily to EQ if that's your thing. If smooth, rich timbre is your thing, the BL03 is better than either. They're all so good though. I've got a pair of Tin P1s which I wanted so badly, but the Blon triplets and the DQ6 get more listen time.


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> That's very true but I'd bet that most people could consider a seriously budget IEM as endgame or virtually endgame if the tuning and tonality fitted their exact requirements completely. From what I've heard of the DQ6, it's definitely gonna be that for somebody.



Sure, I totally agree


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Hmm, I will admit KZ has had an off day (model) every once in a while but can't agree totally on the BA thing cause these babies right here are in my top 5 iem's ever and once again my favorite all BA iem period  Not that I'm doubting you as "We all do hear them just a little differently" but I still believe KZ hits far more out the park for the buying dollar than not
> 
> I'll tell you something else, this entire setup cost me a whopping $112 w/cable and will wipe the floor on some $300 rigs I own (at least as I hear it) but of course ymmv


Yes, I agree, the BA10 is really special. The bass is more dynamic-like and the midrange timbre is excellent. Treble is more dialled back with no BA in the nozzle. KZ's finest to date IMO.


----------



## purplesun

Tonymac136 said:


> I've not done any serious comparative listening between the two yet though. One doesn't stand out as being a whole lot "better" than the other. Just "different". To my ears the Blon is a tad more comfortable, and the unit itself seems better built, but that's so subjective I'm not even gonna commit to that.



Yeah, I've switching between Jadeaudio EA1 & DQ6 in the past few days for casual listening; I don't really feel much gain/loss in quality between them. Slightly different sound signatures - EA1 has more balanced lows/highs and a slight V, while DQ6 is more forward with stronger bass. IMO, they are both very well suited for daily use, and even for some critical listening.


----------



## Tonymac136

I think the Chi-Fi market has more or less reached full saturation point now. Some IEMs stand out as being out and out "bad", but most really are at a level where even if someone were to buy the "wrong" IEM, if they didn't hear any of the others they would likely be happy with their purchase.
It also has to be said that even the stand out "bad" ones seem to be better than they used to be. What is interesting is where we go from here. Will it stagnate, or will the likes of the DQ6 and the Blon BL01 sound as bad a couple of years from now as the KZ ZS10 sounds now?


----------



## purplesun

Tonymac136 said:


> Will it stagnate, or will the likes of the DQ6 and the Blon BL01 sound as bad a couple of years from now as the KZ ZS10 sounds now?


You musn't forget we hang around a highly critical audio forum. Go into any supermarket's audio section; I am quite sure even KZ ATE will still dominate in terms of sound value, if not being TOTL for some of their buyers. Headfiers are fussy!


----------



## Podster

LOL, my old KZ ED9's at $7.99 can destroy the $19.99 plastic Skull Kandies at Best Buy every day of the week and we can probably name 20/30 $19.99 iem's off the top of our heads here that are leaps and bounds better than those SK's


----------



## saldsald

snowmind said:


> Personally, I really like KZs in terms of construction, they would be huge killers if they hit the sound because the fit, the construction and the accessories are better than the competition (Blon, I'm looking at you ... your cable looks like an offense) .
> 
> I'm actually facing a dilemma, now I have the BL-01 and I like it because it's very musical and silky, I would like to know if it's time to get rid of them by betting on DQ6.



There's lot of world to see. Get the DQ6.


----------



## saldsald (Jan 5, 2021)

ZAXon 7 said:


> are the DQ6 and the NM2+ comparable?



Actually I find the DQ6 to be more musical and has better vertical imaging. The NM2+ sounds more 2D to my ears but quite a bit faster and a lot more technical. Thou some may find the DQ6 'boring'.

Edit: However, the DQ6 isn't nearly as good for female vocal due to the lack of enough treble extension. For instrumental tracks the DQ6 may even has an edge.


----------



## purplesun

saldsald said:


> Actually I find the DQ6 to be more musical and has better vertical imaging. The NM2+ sounds more 2D to my ears but quite a bit faster and a lot more technical. Thou some may find the DQ6 'boring'.


IMO, the 2 smaller drivers in DQ6 is too conservatively tuned; there's still headroom in them. Throwing in a brighter cable from your collection, or EQing the highs can eke out still more performance from the pair. IMO, the overall sound gets more vibrant and cleaner, but losing some warmth.


----------



## saldsald (Jan 5, 2021)

purplesun said:


> IMO, the 2 smaller drivers in DQ6 is too conservatively tuned; there's still headroom in them. Throwing in a brighter cable from your collection, or EQing the highs can eke out still more performance from the pair. IMO, the overall sound gets more vibrant and cleaner, but losing some warmth.


They are cable sensitive, I have tried several cables of mine including 3.5mm and 4.4mm. The DQ6 sounds quite stressed with 3.5mm and much better with balanced cables. I also mentioned earlier, the bass driver can be easily over driven (I think) so it sounds much better with 4-core cables. I hear no lack of brightness and warmth with a 4-core OCC (balanced).
You hear the lack of brightness maybe caused by the 10mm DD being pushed too much by some cables.


----------



## purplesun

IMHO, DQ6 is already quite decent sounding as is (note: am treble-sensitive). I was playing around with tips, cables & daps; and I was hearing sounds from nausea-inducing bass to beryllium-coated-like treble/details coming out of the DQ6. It's quite a fun thing to mess around with.


----------



## trumpethead

Nimweth said:


> Yes, I agree, the BA10 is really special. The bass is more dynamic-like and the midrange timbre is excellent. Treble is more dialled back with no BA in the nozzle. KZ's finest to date IMO.


Still waiting on mine to get here! Usps is Killin Me!!!


----------



## voicemaster

trumpethead said:


> Still waiting on mine to get here! Usps is Killin Me!!!


Same with mine. Still in LA last time I checked, hopefully by this week I will receive mine.


----------



## n0de5

My ZS6's still haven't come as well. They better come tomorrow lol


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 5, 2021)

Slater said:


> Unfortunately, that’s not a KZ thing. That’s pretty much all BAs. Even Etymotics that use the BA drivers can sound artificial in tonality when compared to the ER2SE for example (which uses a dynamic driver).
> 
> That’s why if I was stuck on a desert island for the rest of my life, and I had to choose between an all-BA, a hybrid, and a dynamic earphone, I would go with the dynamic in a heartbeat.



Actually I think in the past few months, the line between a BA setup and DD setup is becoming more blurred. It used to be that most audiophiles would say DD sets have better timbre/tonality, at the expense of technicalities, whereas multi BA/hybrid types generally have better technicalities but poorer timbre.

But from recent releases, you have single DD types like the NM2+ which have very good technicalities, and then you have hybrids (containing piezos/BAs) that have very good timbre too like the LZ A7. In fact I dare say the LZ A7 has better timbre than some single DD types I've heard (for acoustic instruments). Of course at the TOTL level, we have sets like Final Audio A8000 and DUNU LUNA (both single DD) which have technicalities that can rival multi BA types, but that may be cherry picking as this is summitFI sound and prices we are talking about.

For many years, I've always been a single DD guy, as I value timbre and tonality over outright technicalities, but I'm starting to see that it is not driver type, driver count or driver material that counts, more important is the tuning and implementation.


----------



## courierdriver

snowmind said:


> Personally, I really like KZs in terms of construction, they would be huge killers if they hit the sound because the fit, the construction and the accessories are better than the competition (Blon, I'm looking at you ... your cable looks like an offense) .
> 
> I'm actually facing a dilemma, now I have the BL-01 and I like it because it's very musical and silky, I would like to know if it's time to get rid of them by betting on DQ6.


Personally, I wouldn't think of getting rid of them. For the cost, they are keepers. They just need some power. Just keep em, and get the DQ6 and add it to your collection. Both are inexpensive enough and may provide a different presentation to your music. Just mho.


----------



## trumpethead

voicemaster said:


> Same with mine. Still in LA last time I checked, hopefully by this week I will receive mine.


I should be used to the slow shipping by now and am normally pretty patient, However all of these posts about how great it is has me anxious and I want to know if it's really as good as people are saying... Also, It took 4 days to get from China to the US and has been in the hands of Usps for 25+ days... To me that's just ridiculous.....


----------



## voicemaster

trumpethead said:


> I should be used to the slow shipping by now and am normally pretty patient, However all of these posts about how great it is has me anxious and I want to know if it's really as good as people are saying... Also, It took 4 days to get from China to the US and has been in the hands of Usps for 25+ days... To me that's just ridiculous.....


Well I ordered on 12/13/2020 so it is about the same time as yours lol. Christmas and New Year holidays making it even slower.


----------



## guido

not much talk about the ZAX anymore...how does it compare to the KSs that are being continually discussed above?


----------



## ZAXon 7

Slater said:


> ive personally never heard the NM2+, but just keep in mind that the DQ6 is an entry/budget level $20 earphone.



the differences between different levels are exactly what i'm trying to understand being almost totally unexperienced... don't even know if 'levels' is a correct way to categorize iems...
i only have the ZAX and while i'm greatly enjoying it i wonder which level they belong to and what should one expect from a superior level, given that i like neutrality, clarity, detail, soundstage, separation and dynamics.
i'm still educating my ears to the ZAX level with different genres and different software setups, so far i'm sure that the only player in the android world that makes them shine at their best is the onkyo hf player, (it's so much better than any other i've tried) then i craft the sound with viper4android and usually get an unbelievable listening experience. Spotify and youtube are no more an option for listening, only to find new music and decide if it's worth to look for flac version.
Anyway, on some tracks which 'opens up' the soundstage and the frequencies of vocals and instruments like Pariah and Refuge from Steven Wilson and Ave Maria from Fabrizio de Andrè, i feel i hit some kind of 'limit' in my chain i tend to attribute to the hardware side (Axon7 mini + ZAX) given that the recording and mixing quality are superb and the software side of my chain should be capable to manage them.

the more i write the more i understand how difficult it is to describe the individual listening experience and how to improve it, and in a foreign language too... as an old italian joke says: to go where i want to go, where do i have to go?


----------



## guido

I am also Italian..

I have ordered a FiiO Q5s TC to use with the ZAX with a balanced cable [and my HD600] ....let's see how much better they can sound compared to the iPhone output...


----------



## unifutomaki

guido said:


> not much talk about the ZAX anymore...how does it compare to the KSs that are being continually discussed above?



Still enjoying mine for its soundstage, imaging and treble detail. The ZAX remains the most versatile IEM in my collection and really opened up after I got my ZX300.


----------



## guido

I really like the ZAX but I do not see it discussed here very often even though it can be had at some amazing prices...

I ordered a Linsoul Tripowin C8 4,4mm to use them in balanced mode...any good?


----------



## unifutomaki

guido said:


> I really like the ZAX but I do not see it discussed here very often even though it can be had at some amazing prices...
> 
> I ordered a Linsoul Tripowin C8 4,4mm to use them in balanced mode...any good?



Problem is that KZ releases too many sidegrades so the ZAX has become old news at this point. But I still believe it's the only >$50 KZ worth bothering with.

I have not tried them in balanced mode just yet, since the additional amplification doesn't really seem necessary for these IEMs and I'd rather retain the ability to use them straight out of my laptop for instance.


----------



## RCracer777

guido said:


> I really like the ZAX but I do not see it discussed here very often even though it can be had at some amazing prices...
> 
> I ordered a Linsoul Tripowin C8 4,4mm to use them in balanced mode...any good?


Haven't tried that yet but I can have a listen when I'm back from work as I have both the ZAX and that exact cable. But that won't be for at least another 6 hours, so you'll have to wait for a bit.


----------



## ChristianM (Jan 7, 2021)

.......


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

purplesun said:


> ..... While DQ6's treble volume, on stock cable,  is near my treble limit.





saldsald said:


> ..... However, the DQ6 isn't nearly as good for female vocal due to the lack of enough treble extension. For instrumental tracks the DQ6 may even has an edge.





purplesun said:


> IMO, the 2 smaller drivers in DQ6 is too conservatively tuned; there's still headroom in them. Throwing in a brighter cable from your collection, or EQing the highs can eke out still more performance from the pair. IMO, the overall sound gets more vibrant and cleaner, but losing some warmth.



I would like to know a well-founded opinion on heights, so I would rather wait for a review or a graph.


----------



## purplesun

Yeah, benchmarking against known quantities is always smarter approach.


----------



## Mouseman

guido said:


> I really like the ZAX but I do not see it discussed here very often even though it can be had at some amazing prices...
> 
> I ordered a Linsoul Tripowin C8 4,4mm to use them in balanced mode...any good?


The ZAX is stellar with a balanced cable and the right source. I think they work well balanced, along with most of the other KZs I have.


----------



## Slater (Jan 6, 2021)

I agree, ZAX are the best KZ hybrids that I’ve heard IMO, with ZS7 and ZS10 Pro being tied for a close second. Of course, that’s just my opinion based on models I own and my preferences. I haven’t heard every model made, so take it for a gain of salt.

I just don’t think the ZAX get talked about much anymore because KZ and CCA come out with new models every month. But that doesn’t mean the previous models aren’t good. You just gotta not get distracted by all the shiny new things (like a cat), and stay focused on wading through the noise to find the diamonds in the rough.

For example, the BA10 is an amazing all-BA model, and it’s THREE years old. Who cares though? It’s not like it’s a smart phone or Intel CPU. Just because something new comes along next month doesn’t automatically nullify everything before it as ‘obsolete’.

Maybe that’s what these companies WANT us to think, in order to drive sales. But that fallacy is the furthest thing from the truth.


----------



## Sebulr

Tonymac136 said:


> I think the Chi-Fi market has more or less reached full saturation point now. Some IEMs stand out as being out and out "bad", but most really are at a level where even if someone were to buy the "wrong" IEM, if they didn't hear any of the others they would likely be happy with their purchase.
> It also has to be said that even the stand out "bad" ones seem to be better than they used to be. What is interesting is where we go from here. Will it stagnate, or will the likes of the DQ6 and the Blon BL01 sound as bad a couple of years from now as the KZ ZS10 sounds now?


Hey, I really like my original zs10, I prefer the look and fit of the pro, but the upper mids are slightly better for me than the zs10 pro for me. I had to mod my pros to tame them slightly. I still use my zs10 og as my Bluetooth, YouTube set. Note, I have massive ear holes, and they fit me OK, ymmv.


----------



## n0de5

Sebulr said:


> Hey, I really like my original zs10, I prefer the look and fit of the pro, but the upper mids are slightly better for me than the zs10 pro for me. I had to mod my pros to tame them slightly. I still use my zs10 og as my Bluetooth, YouTube set. Note, I have massive ear holes, and they fit me OK, ymmv.


Does the bluetooth cable sound good or is there a tradeoff in sound quality like most bluetooth audio products?


----------



## ZAXon 7

does anyone know if the Axon7 mini has a balanced audio output?


----------



## nraymond (Jan 6, 2021)

Not sure how many people here know about Crinacle's free Graph Comparison Tool, but it's worth mentioning:

https://crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/

It allows you to compare up to two earphones at a time that he's measured on his rig, and he's measured a lot. It can be a useful way to understand how different KZ models (and other brands, if you like) sound. So if you have one KZ model and are thinking about getting another, you can select the one you have, and the other model and see how their frequency response compares across the spectrum, which can give you a pretty good idea. The KZ models he's tested so far:

AS10
AS16
ASF
ASX
BA10
E10
ED Special Edition
ED16
ES4
S2
S4
ZS3
ZS5v1
ZS5v2
ZS6
ZS10 Pro
ZAX
ZSN Pro
ZSR
ZST
ZSX


----------



## Nimweth

Slater said:


> I agree, ZAX are the best KZ hybrids that I’ve heard IMO, with ZS7 and ZS10 Pro being tied for a close second. Of course, that’s just my opinion based on models I own and my preferences. I haven’t heard every model made, so take it for a gain of salt.
> 
> I just don’t think the ZAX get talked about much anymore because KZ and CCA come out with new models every month. But that doesn’t mean the previous models aren’t good. You just gotta not get distracted by all the shiny new things (like a cat), and stay focused on wading through the noise to find the diamonds in the rough.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is quite interesting to revisit older models you have. The latest models always seem amazing at first but then after digging out some older classics you often realise how good they are. ZS7, BA10 and KBEAR Diamond being examples for me recently. ZAX is excellent I agree but I still give top spot for a hybrid KZ to the ZS7. With the TRI Through cable they really do shine!


----------



## n0de5

I just tried on the ZS10 pro's and I was blown away from the sound. Keep in mind that my reference was a pair of M30x's. There was more detail (prob because the V-shaped frequency response) and it felt like a breath of fresh air. Thanks to @voicemaster for sending these over!


----------



## Sebulr

n0de5 said:


> Does the bluetooth cable sound good or is there a tradeoff in sound quality like most bluetooth audio products?


I use the 12 quid kz type b I think. It has quite of electronic noise floor. It is only really obvious when voices are played, and can be a bit annoying. But I don't really notice it when music is playing. I think the noise floor is at a constant volume, that is, it doesn't get louder with an increase in volume. The sound quality through apt x is quite good, I can't really tell the difference between wired, apart from the noise floor, at low listening volumes. Can't really tell with aac either. We'll maybe, if I listen _really hard. _


----------



## The3DCie

I'm quite surprised there isn't more talk about the EDX on Head-Fi?

I know it's not the IEM of the year, it's not a revolution in itself and the highly competitive Chi-Fi world, but for its price it's a real gem (to my ears at least) and I'm glad I bought one a few months ago to "see" (or hear, in that case) how they sounded, thinking I wasn't risking much @ $5.

But I wasn't expecting so much, these earphones are warm, have a really great tonality, the overall sound has a good body, it's bassy but not dark, the bass isn't boomy at all and they have good details overall. They also fit my ears almost perfectly (which isn't oftzn coming from KZ earphones as they almost always have a too large nozzle, which is painful in my ears.

At this price, except the Sony MH750, which are a "No Go" for other reasons (the short "J-Cable", the fit, the fact that they are prone to wind noise when used outside), I don't see any other IEM that good!  

Perhaps most of HeadFiers have so much good gears that they don't bother with IEMs this cheap?

When listening to the EDX, I always wonder why KZ doesn't take the single DD market seriously and builds something around the much acclaimed XUN driver?
(I don't have any of their sets with this XUN driver, so I can' say if it's that good or not, but it would be great to see what they could do with it?)

I know the newly released DQ6 does have a XUN driver, so perhaps is it the set I'm talking about?


----------



## wopossum

I have finally received my package with KZ ZAX, Ibasso DC03, KBEar 16-core copper cable and Spinfits CP100/145/800(the latter was a wrong choice but it's too late).

So uh.

*My micro review: KZ - "ZS5v2 vs ZAX".*


No "wow effect" right off the bat and mixed feelings. But!
It was immediately noticeable that ZAX is waaaaaaay more comfortable than ZS5s that have their sharp shell design stolen from CA Andromeda. Even though ZS5s were exceptionally robust(except for the nozzle, ha-ha), I don't think I would pick them again for their comfort, ZAX on the other hand...

Right after that, it's easy to notice that ZAX is way better in terms of details and superior in instruments separation. An example that I used for testing instruments separation was "Lilium - Sleeping Inside" - even through YouTube "quality" sound it's really noticeable. I wasn't completely stunned by this, but it was a surprise nonetheless.
Subbass seemed to be lacking remarkably on ZAX, though. This issue was fixed by replacing the stock Starline tips with foam tips that I'm already quite familiar with.
This slightly elevated the bass, and I also had a better fit, because out of the box ZAX comes with M-sized Starline tips and my ears are only comfortable with L size.
I didn't believe in that at first glance but replacing the stock cable with KBEar 16-core followed with an improvement in the bass frequencies.
This cable came with the additional soft bag as a gift. Which is a really nice move from the manufacturer, since you're buying an upgrade cable, this means you already think about your earphones and their quality, and you need to store them somewhere, right?

But even then, it seemed that ZS5 is better in low frequencies, at the same time ZS5 is muddier than ZAX probably because of 2 DDs versus 1. Well, of course, the difference is in their overall construction & setup too. ZAX has more space inside, has x3 times more BA drivers. Also, ZAX seems to be more punchy in the entire spectrum. Especially on any drums(cymbals) and on the bass. I'm not sure if that's the right word, but their speed characteristics feel generally better. After listening for 40 minutes, I started to have some sort of a headache - my ears adjusting to a new sound or something else, but it's just a thing to notice. Later on, I didn't have pretty much any discomfort.

I have tried stock Starline tips, foam tips that were included in the package by the seller as a gift(these ones are your more standard-ish foam tips, they have this slow memory foam effect, I used to own a similar pair but they were more sturdy and I bet they would sound better). Finally, we have Spinfits CP100 - I had a feeling that low and mid-bass aren't just there, I have replaced them with CP145 and "wow" effect came in. I bet it's because of the fact that their nozzle is wider.
Sound is well-detailed, crisp and bright. There's no "overwhelming bass" that people were telling in their full-of-hate reviews, mids are relaxed but not really drowned & veiled. Fit is comfortable. They're not completely closed and they, indeed, lose some of their isolation. For example, without anything playing, I was able to hear some noise coming from my PC. Again, foam tips would have probably fix that. There are some signs of sibilance here and there but not nearly as terrible as with ZS5v2. I can't say that ZAX just completely eliminated ZS5v2 in every aspect, I would say ZS5 were already absolutely insane for their 28$.

I also do think that by replacing all BAs in ZAX for Knowles we could probably have an entirely different level of sound. With the price skyrocketing at up to 12 or 15 times more.

I would absolutely recommend the cable I mentioned because it's really soft and looks superb.


Testing tracks:
CHVRCHES - Never Say Die:
(my crash-test of any earphones on the planet, if there's sand or sound gets mushy on the chorus - test failed). I think they passed, but they have slight issues with the vocals and upper mids. There's a lack of brightness, but hey, a horrific amount of sibilance with a lot of air & brilliance coming from ZS5 or the more balanced sound of ZAX. My brain needs to readjust itself to something flatter on highs.

Bury The Light(OST from Devil May Cry V):
There is no lossless version, which is very unfortunate. But still, there are issues with mids and upper mids. I can't get my head around why they sound relatively bad on this.

MOON - Hydrogen:
My usual track for bass testing, I know there are better examples in different genres, but I'm stuck with this one. They sound great on this, but it was highly expected.

I was also trying some EDM music, I guess EDM is a sweet spot for these. Just because of "Bury The Light" I think metal music will be difficult. Pop music sounds great, too. I definitely need to check some classical music & jazz.

This was the 1st day. If things would be better, I will make an update post.


----------



## ChrisOc

We have almost reached the end of the stage one of our First Head-Fi Members' Poll. Stage one of the poll closes at Midnight GMT tomorrow. 

Only the top 5 in each category will go forward to stage two. Get your vote in for your favourite IEMs and maybe they will get into the top 5.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...r-monitors-2020-please-read-the-rules.950854/


----------



## Slater

The3DCie said:


> I'm quite surprised there isn't more talk about the EDX on Head-Fi?



I love me some EDX goodness


----------



## The3DCie

Slater said:


> I love me some EDX goodness


Wow, great!  
Mine are the same base "color", except they are still stock, given I don’t have any skills in opening earphones or soldering, etc, etc...  

Anyway, great to see I’m not alone to really like those EDX, regardless of the absolute steal price!


----------



## Podster

Slater said:


> I love me some EDX goodness



Dude, send me those babies  LOL

So Pod's been A/B'ing (just enjoying really) these two setups all morning and different in presentation however enjoying the heck out of both, balanced on the 4's and SE with the 7's


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I keep being told that the DQ6 is kind of like a BL-01, in some ways with better technicalities. So I caved and bought one yesterday.

I lacked discipline and sprung for one with an included KZ 8-core copper OFC [for same price as regular DQ6, instead of even further discount.]

Probably should have gotten a separate ZAX cable, since I read that it might move it a little away from the KZ house sound. People are saying I should use a 'brighter' cable. So are we talking silver? I have a TRN T2 SPC for my BL-05s already on the way. [I know this is kinda dumb since it's <5% of the sound, but I figure the tips and amp situation is already fine].

So I guess I'll be cable-rolling DQ6 with a KZ copper OFC for starters, just because.


----------



## TheVortex (Jan 7, 2021)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I keep being told that the DQ6 is kind of like a BL-01, in some ways with better technicalities. So I caved and bought one yesterday.
> 
> I lacked discipline and sprung for one with an included KZ 8-core copper OFC [for same price as regular DQ6, instead of even further discount.]
> 
> ...



I caved in and bought one as well and they should be delivered by the end of next week if I am lucky.
Also ordered the CCA CST and have the CCA CKX arriving some time as well.


----------



## B9Scrambler

​


----------



## saldsald

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I keep being told that the DQ6 is kind of like a BL-01, in some ways with better technicalities. So I caved and bought one yesterday.
> 
> I lacked discipline and sprung for one with an included KZ 8-core copper OFC [for same price as regular DQ6, instead of even further discount.]
> 
> ...


IMO the DQ6 doesn't sound like the BL-01 at alland sounds best to my ears with a 4-core OFC as a 8-core provides too much bass response.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 7, 2021)

B9Scrambler said:


> ​




That grey looks good.

Tried to get the line as straight as possible so it would touch the sub bass.
After several attempts (drawing with my finger) this is the closest I could get.






Anyway, for $30 it'll be great if it sounds the way this graph looks.

Thanks for the graph.

Looking forward to receiving these.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Alpha Whale said:


> That grey looks good.
> 
> Tried to get the line as straight as possible so it would touch the sub bass.
> After several attempts (drawing with my finger) this is the closest I could get.
> ...



You're welcome. I suspect the 7k hump is larger than what my measurements show. Normally that region doesn't bother me at all but here I notice it. Still doesn't exceed my tolerances, but it does stick out. I suspect that's going to be the main sticking point for those who dislike the DQ6. Other than that I really have no complaints about it so far. 28 CAD well spent imo.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 7, 2021)

B9Scrambler said:


> You're welcome. I suspect the 7k hump is larger than what my measurements show. Normally that region doesn't bother me at all but here I notice it. Still doesn't exceed my tolerances, but it does stick out. I suspect that's going to be the main sticking point for those who dislike the DQ6. Other than that I really have no complaints about it so far. 28 CAD well spent imo.



Interestingly enough, the AS12 has a 7khz and 9khz lift as a counterbalance to the lower frequencies without sucking life from the midrange.

Would you say the DQ6 shares those characteristics?

_I'm kind of hoping the DQ6 will give me an AS12-like presentation. That way I'll have an all-DD set to compliment my favorite all-BA set._


----------



## B9Scrambler

Alpha Whale said:


> Interestingly enough, the AS12 has a 7khz and 9khz lift as a counterbalance to the lower frequencies without sucking life from the midrange.
> 
> Would you say the DQ6 shares those characteristics?
> 
> _I'm kind of hoping the DQ6 will give me an AS12-like presentation. That way I'll have an all-DD set to compliment my favorite all-BA set._



Wish I could say but I've never heard the AS12. Sorry.


----------



## wopossum

Ahem. How does XUN driver look? Has anyone got some relatively HQ pictures?


----------



## Slater

wopossum said:


> Ahem. How does XUN driver look? Has anyone got some relatively HQ pictures?


----------



## n0de5

I'm thinking about drilling a hole into the backplate of my ZSN Pro's and covering the hole with a mesh to make them "open back". Any suggestions/problems that you see?


----------



## StacoHRP

n0de5 said:


> I'm thinking about drilling a hole into the backplate of my ZSN Pro's and covering the hole with a mesh to make them "open back". Any suggestions/problems that you see?



I just did last night... 
And guess what?
Cover back the hole with toothpick and gave it new hole with needle.


----------



## n0de5

Did it sound weird? What problems did u have with it and did it change the soundscape at all?


----------



## crabdog

KZ are getting closer to making a really good TWS but they still need to address some key issues...For those interested, I just published my review of the SA08.


----------



## StacoHRP

n0de5 said:


> Did it sound weird? What problems did u have with it and did it change the soundscape at all?



Altough only a milimeter bigger than original vent, it sounds too loose for me (no mesh). The problem with using the mesh from inside, the sounds become different between channels.
I tought old vent mod like this only work for bullet shape shell iems.
You can try yourself, if something wrong happen,  you can always revert to original hole size using blutack.


----------



## chinerino

Hehehehehe here are my impressions of the KZ ZAX https://www.perrivanaudio.com/post/kz-zax-review! I have to say, it is so far the best sounding KZ that I tried over the past few years.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

B9Scrambler said:


> Wish I could say but I've never heard the AS12. Sorry.


The AS12's trebles seem to be very complete and ideally balanced with upper-midrange.


----------



## trumpethead

I am using the  Mh755 tips...Large, on my Edx and boy what am improvement in sound quality.. Reduces the harshness and smooths them out considerably.. Bass impact has increased without spilling  over.. Better definition and still detailed... Made an already good sounding iem sound much better imo...  More comfortable fit and seal as well...


----------



## artatgray (Jan 8, 2021)

chinerino said:


> Hehehehehe here are my impressions of the KZ ZAX https://www.perrivanaudio.com/post/kz-zax-review! I have to say, it is so far the best sounding KZ that I tried over the past few years.



I quite like mine as well. As a matter of fact, I'm listening with them right now... 📱🎧🎶😎

By the way, the minor issues you mentioned about sound quality can easily be remedy by EQ. I've done so with - tuned to Harman - and it did noticeably improve.


----------



## Podster

trumpethead said:


> I am using the  Mh755 tips...Large, on my Edx and boy what am improvement in sound quality.. Reduces the harshness and smooths them out considerably.. Bass impact has increased without spilling  over.. Better definition and still detailed... Made an already good sounding iem sound much better imo...  More comfortable fit and seal as well...



Not too mention you got an awesome iem with those tips for $5  And to think people walk into Best Buy and get cheap, bad sounding Skull Candies for $19.99 a pair They are also worthy cables tweaks which credit goes to Slater and the late and great Hungry Panda R.I.P. our friend





Not to stray too far from thread topic and get myself TERMINATED


----------



## chinerino

artatgray said:


> I quite like mine as well. As a matter of fact, I'm listening with them right now... 📱🎧🎶😎
> 
> By the way, the minor issues you mentioned about sound quality can easily be remedy by EQ. I've done so with - tuned to Harman - and it did noticeably improve.


Glad that I was able to help!


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

trumpethead said:


> I am using the  Mh755 tips...Large, on my Edx and boy what am improvement in sound quality.. Reduces the harshness and smooths them out considerably.. Bass impact has increased without spilling  over.. Better definition and still detailed... Made an already good sounding iem sound much better imo...  More comfortable fit and seal as well...



Those MH755 tips... what can't they do?


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 8, 2021)

crabdog said:


> KZ are getting closer to making a really good TWS but they still need to address some key issues...For those interested, I just published my review of the SA08.



Between the Z1 (single DD "XUN") and the SA08 which do you prefer?

Thanks in advance.





B9Scrambler said:


> Wish I could say but I've never heard the AS12. Sorry.



I know you're the O.G. when it comes to KZ Acoustics.

I can't seem to get my DQ6 soon enough but still looking forward to your review on them.





xxAMAROKxx said:


> The AS12's trebles seem to be very complete and ideally balanced with upper-midrange.



Agreed.

*"The AS12's trebles seem to be very complete and ideally balanced with upper-midrange." *_...and lower frequencies_ _(just like the BA10). _

It's not as warm as the BA10 but it's a supreme listening experience.

I haven't heard the ZS7, ZSX, ZAX or ASX (I do have ASF) but considering my extensive collection the AS12 is KZ's best effort as of January 2021.

I am tempted to pick up a ZSX and ZAX but given the tuning of the BA10 and AS12 I'm just not tempted enough. I do regret not picking up the ZS7 (the ZS6 is one of my favorites) but it will be a dark day when the BA10 and AS12 are no longer available.

Am I incorrect in my understanding that you like the $70 AS12 as much as your $700 Moondrop S8?


----------



## Podster

Alpha Whale said:


> Between the Z1 (single DD "XUN") and the SA08 which do you prefer?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> ...



Say What, you may have possibly missed the "A" in that naming!





KZ SA08 (TWS)


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

chinerino said:


> Hehehehehe here are my impressions of the KZ ZAX https://www.perrivanaudio.com/post/kz-zax-review! I have to say, it is so far the best sounding KZ that I tried over the past few years.


Hey m8, just wanted to say I am usually very critical of reviews and your site is laid out very well, has very concise well written reviews, and most of all... the photography is top notch.

One of the few edx reviews Iv seen outside headfi.


----------



## The3DCie

trumpethead said:


> I am using the  Mh755 tips...Large, on my Edx and boy what am improvement in sound quality.. Reduces the harshness and smooths them out considerably.. Bass impact has increased without spilling  over.. Better definition and still detailed... Made an already good sounding iem sound much better imo...  More comfortable fit and seal as well...


I for one am an absolute fan of Sony hybrid tips (the real ones or the copies you can find everywhere on AE) and I'll try them on the EDX to see how they sound.
I'm using TWS like tips on EDX now, as I like the fit they provide.
I'm not bothered the least by high mids and trebles of EDX, which I like very much, perhaps I'm not sensitive to this part of the sound spectrum?
I also must say I'm always listening at quite low volume (60dB usually, 70dN -peak- when I'm going crazy!) so that probably helps reduce the harshness a lot of people are talking about?


----------



## Floschi12345

The KZ DQ6 arrived today. Rocking them in the 4.4mm on Fiio M11. Spend a few hours with them already and I can say: After all these disappointing phones by KZ (dare I say ASX), this one is absolutely delightful. Pounding bass with profound sub bass, detailed mids without any bleed from the bass and an elevated sparkly treble that brings out cymbals and crashes without being harsh. This a fun headphone, V shaped without the mids being overpowered, which has a lot to offer. I mainly listen to hard rock and metal. For this, they are a steal for under 30 bucks. Thumbs up from me! P. S. As always stock tips and cable are crap. Currently using a TRN Pentaconn cable and SpinFit tips.


----------



## artatgray

chinerino said:


> Glad that I was able to help!



You didn't help me.


----------



## alamnp

Podster said:


> Not too mention you got an awesome iem with those tips for $5  And to think people walk into Best Buy and get cheap, bad sounding Skull Candies for $19.99 a pair They are also worthy cables tweaks which credit goes to Slater and the late and great Hungry Panda R.I.P. our friend
> 
> 
> 
> Not to stray too far from thread topic and get myself TERMINATED



you got FIIO BTR5? that's a fine DAC/DAP/BLUETOOTH


----------



## alamnp

artatgray said:


> You didn't help me.


Salty 😂😂😂


----------



## Podster

alamnp said:


> you got FIIO BTR5? that's a fine DAC/DAP/BLUETOOTH


 
No that is the BTR3K, this is my new Mini "King of the Hill"  Took about 20 minutes for me to order a backup and give both my ES100's away


----------



## chinmie

Podster said:


> No that is the BTR3K, this is my new Mini "King of the Hill"  Took about 20 minutes for me to order a backup and give both my ES100's away



i tried my friend's Qudelix and BTR5, both are good and for my ears are better than the ES100 when comparing their single end output, but the ES100 can get really close to them when comparing their balanced output. 

i prefer the BTR5 sound myself, as it has a more energetic overall sound compared to the more neutral 5K and ES100, but that is definitely preference matter, as the BTR5 and 5K are both playing at basically the same level of performance


----------



## crabdog

Alpha Whale said:


> Between the Z1 (single DD "XUN") and the SA08 which do you prefer?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Although the SA08 is superior in a technical sense (especially the mad detail retrieval), I prefer the tonality of the Z1 but most of all I much prefer the Z1 shells which are smaller and fit in my ears much better.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

Alpha Whale said:


> Between the Z1 (single DD "XUN") and the SA08 which do you prefer?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> ...


Nowadays I prefer AS12 over the Moondrop S8. S8 is very source picky, I use it only with my PC soundcard.
I like AS12's bass and treble more. True mids are better on S8, but upper-mids -  for music with female vocals or el. quitars, AS12 is my best


----------



## Pelicampe

B9Scrambler said:


> ​



Really like this FR, we have less the roller coaster effect than usual.
They tempt me ... but I already have the BL03 and BL01, I'm afraid that it will be duplicated...


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Pelicampe said:


> Really like this FR, we have less the roller coaster effect than usual.
> They tempt me ... but I already have the BL03 and BL01, I'm afraid that it will be duplicated...



Ha ha, this is a debate actually happening right now. Some people say that the DQ6 is like a BL-01 with different technicalities. But others say the tuning is not similar enough, that it has its own tuning. So maybe you can contribute to the debate!


----------



## guido

the KZ ZAX are blowing my mind out of the FiiO Q5s TC in single ended mode...waiting for the balanced cable to arrive...


----------



## B9Scrambler

guido said:


> the KZ ZAX are blowing my mind out of the FiiO Q5s TC in single ended mode...waiting for the balanced cable to arrive...



ZAX is a fun listen


----------



## nraymond (Jan 9, 2021)

Just got the BA10 after considering them for a few years, and they're very good! I have enjoyed the ZS7 for a while now but I think their bass is just a bit too much for me, I found I haven't been reaching for them much lately. I figured the BA10 would be a good way to go. What aftermarket eartips do folks use with their BA10? So far I'm enjoying the Acoustune AET08a tips the most (which would be the first time I've ever found these tips work well, since they way the emphasize bass in dynamic earphones has never agreed with me... maybe they're meant more for an all balanced armature set).

Edit: the AET08a might boost the bass too much even on the BA10! Just switched to the Periodic Audio Hydrogen tips, so far so good...


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Podster said:


> No that is the BTR3K, this is my new Mini "King of the Hill"  Took about 20 minutes for me to order a backup and give both my ES100's away



What cable is that on the ZS7? I'm always looking to improve my ZS7.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise (Jan 9, 2021)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> What cable is that on the ZS7? I'm always looking to improve my ZS7.


Could be wrong but it looks like a yin yoo cable.  I have a 16core one and it's very nice feeling.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my DQ6 and on first listening, I am quite impressed by the sound, fit and build quality.


----------



## courierdriver

Pelicampe said:


> Really like this FR, we have less the roller coaster effect than usual.
> They tempt me ... but I already have the BL03 and BL01, I'm afraid that it will be duplicated...


+1 I also have both of the BLON'S. But, I'm still intrigued by the DQ6. There are stupid amounts of multi BA, BA+DD+EST+piezo +++ stuff out there that sells for ridiculous prices. NEVER ( besides the Nicehck H40) have I seen a multi DD iem set. I'm gonna take a shot on these in the near future.


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> +1 I also have both of the BLON'S. But, I'm still intrigued by the DQ6. There are stupid amounts of multi BA, BA+DD+EST+piezo +++ stuff out there that sells for ridiculous prices. NEVER ( besides the Nicehck H40) have I seen a multi DD iem set. I'm gonna take a shot on these in the near future.


I also have both BLONs and the DQ6 is a different beast.


----------



## Nimweth

nraymond said:


> Just got the BA10 after considering them for a few years, and they're very good! I have enjoyed the ZS7 for a while now but I think their bass is just a bit too much for me, I found I haven't been reaching for them much lately. I figured the BA10 would be a good way to go. What aftermarket eartips do folks use with their BA10? So far I'm enjoying the Acoustune AET08a tips the most (which would be the first time I've ever found these tips work well, since they way the emphasize bass in dynamic earphones has never agreed with me... maybe they're meant more for an all balanced armature set).
> 
> Edit: the AET08a might boost the bass too much even on the BA10! Just switched to the Periodic Audio Hydrogen tips, so far so good...


I use the medium Starlines included with the BA10. For me they produce the best balance.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

courierdriver said:


> +1 I also have both of the BLON'S. But, I'm still intrigued by the DQ6. There are stupid amounts of multi BA, BA+DD+EST+piezo +++ stuff out there that sells for ridiculous prices. NEVER ( besides the Nicehck H40) have I seen a multi DD iem set. I'm gonna take a shot on these in the near future.


There was a great sounding TinAudio T515 in the Middle Ages with 10mm + 6mm Dynamic Drivers. Still have one somewhere...


----------



## slex (Jan 10, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Just received my DQ6 and on first listening, I am quite impressed by the sound, fit and build quality.


ok, you made pull me the trigger☺


----------



## Nimweth (Jan 10, 2021)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> There was a great sounding TinAudio T515 in the Middle Ages with 10mm + 6mm Dynamic Drivers. Still have one somewhere...


Then there's the Lindy Cromo IEM 75. Dual DD, 15mm + 7mm. Still available from Amazon.co.uk for £12.99 and very good indeed!


----------



## RCracer777 (Jan 10, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> NEVER ( besides the Nicehck H40) have I seen a multi DD iem set.


I believe the Tin HiFi T2 and T2 Pro are 2DD (10+6mm) just like the old T515.
My Soundpeats Truengine 3 SE TWS is also a 2DD (2x5mm) but it doesn't have IEM grade sound quality, still fun to listen to though.


----------



## slex

Ring a bell?☺️


----------



## Podster (Jan 10, 2021)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> What cable is that on the ZS7? I'm always looking to improve my ZS7.



Dr. Rez is correct however as a low poster I’m sure un-aware of the ban. I did want to say I’m glad to see more people purchasing the BA10, still one if the very best all BA iem’s I’ve heard at any price. Also glad I picked up my second pair now that the word is spreading


----------



## Nimweth

Here's another dual DD: 
https://happymeerkatreviewsproducts...-dual-driver-earphones-with-detachable-cable/
I have two prototypes of a similar looking IEM:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Dynamix®-Euphony-Aluminium-earphones-Silver/dp/B0185UCCH0
They sound very good. One is brighter than the other.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

Floschi12345 said:


> The KZ DQ6 arrived today. Rocking them in the 4.4mm on Fiio M11. Spend a few hours with them already and I can say: After all these disappointing phones by KZ (dare I say ASX), this one is absolutely delightful. Pounding bass with profound sub bass, detailed mids without any bleed from the bass and an elevated sparkly treble that brings out cymbals and crashes without being harsh. This a fun headphone, V shaped without the mids being overpowered, which has a lot to offer. I mainly listen to hard rock and metal. For this, they are a steal for under 30 bucks. Thumbs up from me! P. S. As always stock tips and cable are crap. Currently using a TRN Pentaconn cable and SpinFit tips.



Can you point a link to the TRN Pentaconn cable?


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

The DQ6 may be cable-sensitive, and I see all sorts of people using replacement cables in this thread.

There's a sale coming up soon, so I thought I might get a cable for the DQ6.

So far, I've narrowed it down to the following ones I can actually find:

-TRN T3 SPC

-FAAEAL 4 core copper [Hibiscus cable, 2-pin]

-NiceHCK 4 cores 4N OFHC

-NiceHCK LitzOCC 4N

-a KZ 'gold-silver cable' [cheap 8-core]

and, alternatively, a TRI Through cable for the ZS7, maybe also the DQ6.

Does anyone have any experience that would cause them to select one of these in particular?


----------



## courierdriver

Wow! Really didn't know that there are so many more multiple DD sets out there. Thanks for all the info, guys! From what I'm reading/reviews on the DQ6, I think these might be my next KZ set. Already love my ZS10 PRO to death and have had the ZAX in my cart for a few months now. But I think I might pull the trigger on the DQ6 before the ZAX because they are less expensive and I'm kinda a basshead. Lol!


----------



## RikudouGoku

ShakeThoseCans said:


> The DQ6 may be cable-sensitive, and I see all sorts of people using replacement cables in this thread.
> 
> There's a sale coming up soon, so I thought I might get a cable for the DQ6.
> 
> ...


I dont rec the TRN cable, because their qc is quite bad (it also measures a lot higher than the faaeal cable).


----------



## Nimweth

ShakeThoseCans said:


> The DQ6 may be cable-sensitive, and I see all sorts of people using replacement cables in this thread.
> 
> There's a sale coming up soon, so I thought I might get a cable for the DQ6.
> 
> ...


The TRI Through cable works really well with the ZS7!


----------



## Slater

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont rec the TRN cable, because their qc is quite bad (it also measures a lot higher than the faaeal cable).



Faaeal all the way!


----------



## Pelicampe

RikudouGoku said:


> I dont rec the TRN cable, because their qc is quite bad (it also measures a lot higher than the faaeal cable).



I've got one TRN and is horrible... 
Jack is scratchy noisy, slider retain nothing,  hanchor don't stay in place and fall from ears and if I pull the jack to hard it lost his extern cylinder....


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> Just received my DQ6 and on first listening, I am quite impressed by the sound, fit and build quality.


You gonna hook them up to BT20s?  I’m thinking about doing that.


----------



## trumpethead

Podster said:


> Dr. Rez is correct however as a low poster I’m sure un-aware of the ban. I did want to say I’m glad to see more people purchasing the BA10, still one if the very best all BA iem’s I’ve heard at any price. Also glad I picked up my second pair now that the word is spreading


Still waiting on mine only two states away, should be here this week..been on the fence for a long time on these, you guys pushed me over. The folks that have these already and have been commenting are head fiers whose opinions I Trust so Im really looking forward to this.. Should be here this week!! BTW got my Dq6 in couple of days ago and my initial response is very good.. Still working on fit and seal but good cohesion Between the three drivers and good sound quality, especially for the money.... So many good budget IEMs out right now...


----------



## voicemaster

whitete said:


> You gonna hook them up to BT20s?  I’m thinking about doing that.


Will do but I am enjoying my new tube amp right now.


----------



## saldsald (Jan 10, 2021)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> The DQ6 may be cable-sensitive, and I see all sorts of people using replacement cables in this thread.
> 
> There's a sale coming up soon, so I thought I might get a cable for the DQ6.
> 
> ...



I have the TRN T3 and the KZ gold silver, don't recommend the T3. The KZ isn't bad but proprietary and may only work with KZ IEMs.

Oh, I actually also have the FAAEAL, it is pretty good.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Just received my DQ6 and on first listening, I am quite impressed by the sound, fit and build quality.



was wondering if you have tc01? How is it going against dq6?


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> was wondering if you have tc01? How is it going against dq6?


What is tc01? I don’t think I have.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> What is tc01? I don’t think I have.



the newest single DD IEM everyone raving about Tripowin TC01, just sold my NM2+, getting this from Amazon, going to check if this one is a keeper.

going to wait for DQ6 on amazon... too chicken to pull the trigger


----------



## slex

alamnp said:


> the newest single DD IEM everyone raving about Tripowin TC01, just sold my NM2+, getting this from Amazon, going to check if this one is a keeper.
> 
> going to wait for DQ6 on amazon... too chicken to pull the trigger


What you hope to accomplish here?☺️


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 11, 2021)

alamnp said:


> the newest single DD IEM everyone raving about Tripowin TC01, just sold my NM2+, getting this from Amazon, going to check if this one is a keeper.
> 
> going to wait for DQ6 on amazon... too chicken to pull the trigger


I thought you like the NM2+? 
DQ6 is available on Amazon tho it is still coming from China.


----------



## Winni (Jan 11, 2021)

whitete said:


> You gonna hook them up to BT20s?  I’m thinking about doing that.



Can't recommend this combination, due the high sensitivity of the DQ6 there is a pretty loud audible hum. And I was using the BT20S Pro version, which has less hum then the non pro version. 

What I also discovered with the adapter, the DQ6 can't handle loud playing, at around 80 percent the sound became really compressed and distorted.


----------



## guido




----------



## The3DCie (Jan 11, 2021)

Well, finally pulled the trigger on DQ6, to see what they sound like, now to wait until they're there.   
I have plenty to listen to anyway and as IEMs aren't my main listening gears it won't be too hard waiting for them to arrive.  (but I'm still eager to try them...)


----------



## Podster

voicemaster said:


> Just received my DQ6 and on first listening, I am quite impressed by the sound, fit and build quality.



Forgot to mention in my last post that I find that iem to be gorgeous


----------



## Aparker2005

Dq6 arrived. Easily the best fitting, and sounding kz I've had. These are so far, beating the 8 and 5 drivers I've had. Cca-ca16 was hurting my ears with the design this weekend. This is perfect


----------



## Damikiller37

My DQ6 arrived today  So far really liking them. Just as @Aparker2005 said, easily one of the best fitting KZs I've tried. Included photos of ZS5, ZSN and DQ6 side by side for reference. I was worried the part that sticks out on DQ6 would be uncomfortable but it's actually the opposite it really settles it in the ear and sits flush without sticking out. Sound so far is very good and balanced but I'll let them burn in a little before I really judge them.


----------



## Podster

Damikiller37 said:


> My DQ6 arrived today  So far really liking them. Just as @Aparker2005 said, easily one of the best fitting KZs I've tried. Included photos of ZS5, ZSN and DQ6 side by side for reference. I was worried the part that sticks out on DQ6 would be uncomfortable but it's actually the opposite it really settles it in the ear and sits flush without sticking out. Sound so far is very good and balanced but I'll let them burn in a little before I really judge them.



Shell volume looks sweet and assuming the bass really digs on those?


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 11, 2021)

My DQ6 arrived today  So far really liking them. Just as @Aparker2005 said, easily one of the best fitting KZs I've tried. Included photos of ZS5, ZSN and DQ6 side by side for reference. I was worried the part that sticks out on DQ6 would be uncomfortable but it's actually the opposite it really settles it in the ear and sits flush without sticking out. Sound so far is very good and balanced but I'll let them burn in a little before I really judge them.


[/QUOTE]
The only thing change with burn-in is the sharpness of the treble. After that it is very smooth sounding IEM and can be used for long listening session.


----------



## voicemaster

Winni said:


> Shell volume looks sweet and assuming the bass really digs on those?


They are actually the same shell as KZ ZSX.


----------



## Damikiller37

voicemaster said:


> 80% on bt20s pro is super loud. I listened to my music at quite high volume and I couldn't even go pass 60% on my ZAX.
> 
> The only thing change with burn-in is the sharpness of the treble. After that it is very smooth sounding IEM and can be used for long listening session.



That sounds perfect. Never really minded the KZ signature treble but taking a little edge of it will be ideal.



Podster said:


> Shell volume looks sweet and assuming the bass really digs on those?



I predominantly listen to Drum and Bass and they do give a really nice deep rumble without making things sound muddy. Very nice separation with bass having it's own layer in contrast to mids and highs. If the treble softens up a little as @voicemaster mentions theses will be a great warm V-shaped set from KZ for the price.


----------



## Mybutthurts

I was going to pull the trigger on buying a DQ6 on AliE, until I noticed that they now add 17.5% Vat on purchases, thanks to the UK's suicide mission known as brexit.
I think I'll skip it.

so, watch out UK buyers beware.

I think ill save a bit and get the Fiio fh3 to go alongside my Fiio M11.
probably a better option than a impulse buy...


----------



## Damikiller37

Mybutthurts said:


> I was going to pull the trigger on buying a DQ6 on AliE, until I noticed that they now add 17.5% Vat on purchases, thanks to the UK's suicide mission known as brexit.
> I think I'll skip it.
> 
> so, watch out UK buyers beware.
> ...


I lucked out and ordered them before new year. But recent purchase of a USB cable got clapped with 20% tax. Will make getting things from AliExpress a little less viable for sure


----------



## xxAMAROKxx

ShakeThoseCans said:


> The DQ6 may be cable-sensitive, and I see all sorts of people using replacement cables in this thread.
> 
> There's a sale coming up soon, so I thought I might get a cable for the DQ6.
> 
> ...



Just bought two KBEAR 16 core copper cables. 2,5 and 3,5 mm. I like its transparent look. I'll give another chance to ofc sound.


----------



## xxAMAROKxx (Jan 11, 2021)

saldsald said:


> I have the TRN T3 and the KZ gold silver, don't recommend the T3. The KZ isn't bad but proprietary and may only work with KZ IEMs.
> 
> Oh, I actually also have the FAAEAL, it is pretty good.


Left side of mine FAAEAL 4-core stopped working after a week or so. Soldering work is probably not as good.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 11, 2021)

The more I listened to the DQ6, the more I am loving it. I compare it against the ZSX just because they share similar body shell design and the DQ6 only losing on a bit of treble extension and a little more forward mid. Both easily EQ able if you like more bite on the treble and forward mid. Soundstage, detail and instrumentals placement are pretty similar. The bass actually a little bit better on the DQ6 as it is more punchy and weightier than the ZSX. The DQ6 is perfect for long listening session as its treble is pretty smooth sounding but still detailed on its presentation. I haven't tried the DQ6 with my BT20S pro yet as I am really enjoying the DQ6 paired with P1 tube amp. For $26, this DQ6 is a no brainer and will please most people. Fit can be a problem for some with the added lip just like the ZSX did, but should be better than the ASF/ASX line. Also, as most with KZ IEMs, the sound signature is more on the fun side so anyone looking for a flat sounding IEM should not even look at KZ. Overall, highly recommended for anyone looking for a great sounding IEM that is cheap. I will even say get the DQ6 instead of ZS10 pro or ZSX.
I am using this KBear 16 core silver plated cable for my DQ6
Amazon.com: 16 Core Silver Plated Upgrade Replacement Audio Cable,HIFIHEAR Earphone Replacement Detachable Cable,Audio Connector Replacement Cable for ZSN ZSN Pro AS16 CCA A10 CA4 C12 Series (C-PIN, 2.5MM): Electronics


----------



## Podster

Mybutthurts said:


> I was going to pull the trigger on buying a DQ6 on AliE, until I noticed that they now add 17.5% Vat on purchases, thanks to the UK's suicide mission known as brexit.
> I think I'll skip it.
> 
> so, watch out UK buyers beware.
> ...



According to this review probably a way better option for sure  

https://primeaudio.org/fiio-fh3-review-take-no-prisoners/


----------



## TheVortex

My DQ6 arrived today and only took around 1 week to get here and I did have the extra tax charge on it as I bought it after the 1st of January.

The shell is extremely similar to the ZSX but not the same as there is some minor differences but they sound decent so far with a normal V shape from some quick listening.


----------



## voicemaster

So I am using my DQ6 with BT20s pro connected to my PC and I set it up at 50% of windows system volume. I am using foobar and set the volume to about 60% and it is plenty loud. At 100% volume on foobar, it is too loud and surely will damage your hearing soon.
Also, there is a hiss when nothing is playing but faintly. I am using them in my PC room where it is really quiet and I can hear the hiss but if I were to use them outdoor, I could barely notice the hiss at all.


----------



## n0de5

so my zs6's come and I stick on a foam tip AND THE ENTIRE ****ING NOZZLE FALLS OFF


----------



## nraymond

n0de5 said:


> so my zs6's come and I stick on a foam tip AND THE ENTIRE ****ING NOZZLE FALLS OFF



Those look really old and worn... I assume you bought them used?


----------



## n0de5

Yup. The seller even said that he tested them and they came with the tips off though so they were secure before they were shipped.


----------



## TheVortex

n0de5 said:


> Yup. The seller even said that he tested them and they came with the tips off though so they were secure before they were shipped.



Which seller?


----------



## n0de5

https://www.ebay.com/usr/bcar1448?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## TheVortex

n0de5 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/usr/bcar1448?_trksid=p2047675.l2559



I thought it was from Ali. I hope you can resolve it.


----------



## n0de5

Thanks. 
Anyway is there a way to resolder the wires back on?


----------



## TheVortex

n0de5 said:


> Thanks.
> Anyway is there a way to resolder the wires back on?



Possibly if you are very careful but is that ZS6 used as it looks like it?


----------



## Podster

nraymond said:


> Those look really old and worn... I assume you bought them used?



Seriously, I'm not sure what kind of bargain you got but I would have just spent the $27 and waited  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## n0de5 (Jan 11, 2021)

I got these for 25. Commencing surgery right now.


----------



## n0de5 (Jan 11, 2021)

Resoldering time.
Now its just a matter of which wire to solder on.
Edit: I've found that the red enamel coated copper wires are the positive or the signal in and the green and uninsulated copper wire are negative. I just have to figure out which side of the driver is positive and negative.


----------



## wopossum

n0de5 said:


> Resoldering time.
> Now its just a matter of which wire to solder on.
> Edit: I've found that the red enamel coated copper wires are the positive or the signal in and the green and insulated copper wire are negative. I just have to figure out which side of the driver is positive and negative.



Please, be very careful especially with the soldering tip, it should be comfortable with such micro sizes. And a positive note - you can experiment with the position of BAs(but it would be better to place them where they were).


----------



## Alpha Whale

n0de5 said:


> Commencing surgery right now.




I just have to say it. 

I didn't expect those photos to effect me but it's kind of weird how it is effecting me. 

I have mad love for the ZS6 v1 and I've never seen a ZS6 as used and abused as that set.









Just.....wow.

Every ZS6 v1 I have is in pristine condition and stored in a failsafe vault.....on different mountaintops..... on 7 different continents .....with booby traps for those with sticky fingers.


----------



## voicemaster

I don't particularly babied my IEMs, but using common sense like putting it on a case when travelling, not pulling the cable to take it off from your ears, etc. If I am not using it, I just put it in a box together will other IEMs unless it is an expensive IEM.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 11, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I don't particularly babied my IEMs, but using common sense like putting it on a case when travelling, not pulling the cable to take it off from your ears, etc. If I am not using it, I just put it in a box together will other IEMs unless it is an expensive IEM.



I'm not even going to front, here. I absolutely "baby" my favorites or irreplaceables and I have several that I wouldn't want to part with. Yes, they're all stored in cases but some are handled with extra care.

Personally, the whole Chi-Fi things is history in the making in my opinion. Years from now I'd like to revisit some of the products that turned the tide (exorbitant pricing vs affordable pricing).


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> I thought you like the NM2+?
> DQ6 is available on Amazon tho it is still coming from China.



lol sold today. I am liking my Believe better, too hot in the mid section for me for NM2+. Since you like BL0N so much... I thought you are following BL0N thread about the newest Tripowin which they compared much to BL0N


----------



## n0de5 (Jan 11, 2021)

Yay i fixed it! I have a new appreciation for people who work in factories soldering small wires and stuff its really hard. The ZS6 sounds great! I also removed the memory wire that was really annoying and didn't help at all.


----------



## wladymeer (Jan 11, 2021)

I love KZ headphones and how they sound. I had several models so far - ES3, ES4, ZS4, AS10 - and somehow ES3 is the one I liked the most. I especially love the detachable cable system.

However, there is one thing I don't like - over-ear hook system.

Is there any way to use it in stupid old dumb way like we did before 2010? You know, something like this:







Thanks


----------



## IEMusic (Jan 11, 2021)

Wow!  My favorite KZ that I’ve heard thus far.  It’s actually one of my favorite all BA IEMs.  Right now, I‘m liking the tuning more than the Fearless S8Pro, as it’s not nearly as intense in the upper mids.  Soundstage and imaging also seem better on initial listen.  The bass is also really good on the BA10, with the strengths of BAs, yet it sounds quite a lot like a DD, with powerful impact and rumble.


----------



## IEMusic (Jan 11, 2021)

I thought I ordered the “Iron Man” with red and gold, but I got the red and silver one.  Oh well, it matches the Zonie cable well.

Edit: I think this is the red and gold color scheme, it just looks more silver-ish IRL.


----------



## xanlamin

Wow! I like the iron man colour scheme. Which KZ model is this?


----------



## IEMusic

xanlamin said:


> Wow! I like the iron man colour scheme. Which KZ model is this?


The venerable BA10.


----------



## saldsald (Jan 11, 2021)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> Left side of mine FAAEAL 4-core stopped working after a week or so. Soldering work is probably not as good.


That is quite unfortunate. Mine is actually branded as BQEYZ which has different parts. From your picture, I think the parts on mine are actually better, maybe should recommend getting the BQEYZ variation. But the sound with this cable is quite amazing.


----------



## Aparker2005

DQ6, ES3, AS16 have been my favorite kz to date


----------



## n0de5

After listening for a bit, my ZS6's are kinda peaky in the highs, and both sides exhibit this so its not because a botched solder job (thankfully).  Is this an indication that my ZS6 is a v1 because the v2's sound dark and distant?


----------



## B9Scrambler

More DQ6 eye candy, because why not? Also, BA10 kicks @$$. Glad to see some are finally starting to look past the boxy shell and appreciate the sound instead.

​


----------



## IEMusic

B9Scrambler said:


> Glad to see some are finally starting to look past the boxy shell and appreciate the sound instead.


So true, and IRL, they look really nice, are very well built, and fit (me) well.  I think the last affordable IEM that captivated me so much on initial listen was the BL03.  While they sound very different, both have a certain indescribable charm to their sound that make me want to listen to them non-stop.  The detail retrieval of the BA10 is scary good.

Listening to the BA10, all I can think is WHY THE .... DO THE ASX AND ASF EXIST?!


----------



## baskingshark (Jan 11, 2021)

wladymeer said:


> I love KZ headphones and how they sound. I had several models so far - ES3, ES4, ZS4, AS10 - and somehow ES3 is the one I liked the most. I especially love the detachable cable system.
> 
> However, there is one thing I don't like - over-ear hook system.
> 
> ...



Some IEMs like the BLON BL-03 and Urbanfun YBF-ISS014 can actually be worn cable down instead of the actual over ear design. Just swap the earpieces from left to right and turn the shell upside down.

I don't think all overear IEMs can be swapped though, as some have a concha protrusion or some weird fins/edges.

Overear designs have some benefits over cable down such as lesser microphonics and perhaps a more secure fit when moving about (in general), but cable down may be easier to insert and remove I suppose, and u can possibly lessen microphonics via a shirt clip.


----------



## alamnp

IEMusic said:


> So true, and IRL, they look really nice, are very well built, and fit (me) well.  I think the last affordable IEM that captivated me so much on initial listen was the BL03.  While they sound very different, both have a certain indescribable charm to their sound that make me want to listen to them non-stop.  The detail retrieval of the BA10 is scary good.
> 
> Listening to the BA10, all I can think is WHY THE .... DO THE ASX AND ASF EXIST?!



ehmmm, makes me want to get BA10, is it flea powered? Or need DAC?


----------



## trumpethead

Got my order today, was supposed to be BA10 plus an addtl Kbear cable... Well only the cable was in the package and the front looked like it had been torn open and taped back together... Hoping they were just shipped separately and the BA10 is on its way.. What do you guys think.... Would the BA 10 fit in this package??


----------



## IEMusic

alamnp said:


> ehmmm, makes me want to get BA10, is it flea powered? Or need DAC?


Works perfectly fine off of a phone or tablet for me.  I haven’t had time to explore it with other sources yet.



trumpethead said:


> Got my order today, was supposed to be BA10 plus an addtl Kbear cable... Well only the cable was in the package and the front looked like it had been torn open and taped back together... Hoping they were just shipped separately and the BA10 is on its way.. What do you guys think.... Would the BA 10 fit in this package??


For reference, here is the BA10 box and a KBEar cable box.


----------



## scratchmassive

As my first foray into the chi-fi world, I've been really loving the KZ ZAX. So much that I've already ordered better cables and xelastec tips to tweak them further. Now I'm eager to get my next set of chi-fis 

Does anyone have some (KZ or not) suggestions at <USD$100 for IEMs that don't need an amp? Preference for some v-shape and presence to the bass.


----------



## n0de5 (Jan 12, 2021)

scratchmassive said:


> As my first foray into the chi-fi world, I've been really loving the KZ ZAX. So much that I've already ordered better cables and xelastec tips to tweak them further. Now I'm eager to get my next set of chi-fis
> 
> Does anyone have some (KZ or not) suggestions at <USD$100 for IEMs that don't need an amp? Preference for some v-shape and presence to the bass.


KZ ZS10 Pros fit the bill. V-shaped frequency response and some oomph to the bass and crispy treble on the top end, but not peaky like some other KZ IEMs. If you're fine with a more flat frequency response get the BLON BL03s. The tonality is really good on the BLONs. The BLONs are 32 ohms though, and I found that using an amp makes it sound better, but they are completely usable without an amp.

The ZS10 Pros go for around 40-50 USD and the BLON BL03s go for 39-ish USD

Don't go off of my word alone, as I am also relatively new to the hifi scene in general too. Read the reviews and thoroughly research before buying.


----------



## Howell29

scratchmassive said:


> As my first foray into the chi-fi world, I've been really loving the KZ ZAX. So much that I've already ordered better cables and xelastec tips to tweak them further. Now I'm eager to get my next set of chi-fis
> 
> Does anyone have some (KZ or not) suggestions at <USD$100 for IEMs that don't need an amp? Preference for some v-shape and presence to the bass.



The newly hyped Tripowin TC-01 (single DD - Silicone + PU coating) seems to fit half the bill hehe, some head-fiers are already swearing by it over Blon offerings and Beryllium Urbanfuns. Easy to drive too they say.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tripowin-tc-01.24878/


----------



## guido

anyone compared the BA10 and ZAX ?


----------



## Gummybuns

IEMusic said:


> Wow! My favorite KZ that I’ve heard thus far. It’s actually one of my favorite all BA IEMs. Right now, I‘m liking the tuning more than the Fearless S8Pro, as it’s not nearly as intense in the upper mids. Soundstage and imaging also seem better on initial listen. The bass is also really good on the BA10, with the strengths of BAs, yet it sounds quite a lot like a DD, with powerful impact and rumble




Does it really differ from AS10 even if they basically had the same internals? I skipped BA10 because of the fit, as it's one of the major complains. Now I'm starting to regret it. Lol.


----------



## Jet Black

When talking about kz, 99.9 percent of the masses thinks of this... 🤣


----------



## chinmie

IEMusic said:


> Wow!  My favorite KZ that I’ve heard thus far.  It’s actually one of my favorite all BA IEMs.  Right now, I‘m liking the tuning more than the Fearless S8Pro, as it’s not nearly as intense in the upper mids.  Soundstage and imaging also seem better on initial listen.  The bass is also really good on the BA10, with the strengths of BAs, yet it sounds quite a lot like a DD, with powerful impact and rumble.



i remembered wanting to buy the Fearless because of the reviews, but luckily had the chance to audition it after a friend bought it.. because it turned out i didn't like it.
Now this makes me curious about the BA10.. how do you compare it to the T2+, ZS10 Pro, and the Blons? i'm sure there would be differences in sound signature, but do they sit on the same level of SQ? 

also does anyone have pictures of the red and black color in real life?


----------



## Nimweth

IEMusic said:


> Wow!  My favorite KZ that I’ve heard thus far.  It’s actually one of my favorite all BA IEMs.  Right now, I‘m liking the tuning more than the Fearless S8Pro, as it’s not nearly as intense in the upper mids.  Soundstage and imaging also seem better on initial listen.  The bass is also really good on the BA10, with the strengths of BAs, yet it sounds quite a lot like a DD, with powerful impact and rumble.


Welcome to the BA10 appreciation club! Spread the word! Lobby KZ for a BA10 Pro! Nice 16 core, BTW.


----------



## Nimweth

scratchmassive said:


> As my first foray into the chi-fi world, I've been really loving the KZ ZAX. So much that I've already ordered better cables and xelastec tips to tweak them further. Now I'm eager to get my next set of chi-fis
> 
> Does anyone have some (KZ or not) suggestions at <USD$100 for IEMs that don't need an amp? Preference for some v-shape and presence to the bass.


KZ BA10.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 12, 2021)

xxAMAROKxx said:


> There was a great sounding TinAudio T515 in the Middle Ages with 10mm + 6mm Dynamic Drivers. Still have one somewhere...



The T515 is "the one the got away" for me. It was very difficult to find. Tin Audio in their infancy, I suppose.












voicemaster said:


> The more I listened to the DQ6, the more I am loving it.
> 
> The DQ6 is perfect for long listening session as its treble is pretty smooth sounding
> 
> Overall, highly recommended for anyone looking for a great sounding IEM that is cheap. I will even say get the DQ6 instead of ZS10 pro or ZSX.



Looks like my DQ6 finally arrives tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback.

Looking forward to putting the DQ6 through its paces.





IEMusic said:


> Wow!  My favorite KZ that I’ve heard thus far.  It’s actually one of my favorite all BA IEMs.  Right now, I‘m liking the tuning more than the Fearless S8Pro, as it’s not nearly as intense in the upper mids.  it sounds quite a lot like a DD, with powerful impact and rumble.




Thanks for the feedback

and once again, FR graphs provide helpful information but they don't tell the whole story. 







BTW, I've been using that 16 core with my silver/turquoise AS12 and it's a stunner.





wladymeer said:


> I love KZ headphones and how they sound. I had several models so far - *ES3*, ES4, ZS4, AS10 - and somehow *ES3* is the one I liked the most.





Aparker2005 said:


> DQ6, *ES3*, AS16 have been my favorite kz to date




The *ES3* didn't get enough love and attention upon its release. If my memory serves me correctly it was released approximately when the ZS5 was released so it got overshadowed and lost in the shuffle. I have an ES3 and although its not a 10 out of 10  model I thought it was a great variation of the ubiquitous but capable ZST. The ES3 bass counters the healthy but unpredictable upper midrange with a toe-tapping addictive bounce that works well with EDM.  I wouldn't recommend the ES3 for every genre but it will get your blood pumping when your jam comes on.

That's what an earphone should do.

Mission accomplished.






n0de5 said:


> After listening for a bit, my ZS6's are kinda peaky in the highs.
> Is this an indication that my ZS6 is a v1 because the v2's sound dark and distant?



Congratulations, sounds like you,  indeed, have a set of ZS6 v1.

Glad to see that you brought them back to life.

Slater can probably advise you on the various mods you can do to tame the treble to your liking.





B9Scrambler said:


> BA10 kicks @$$. Glad to see some are finally starting to look past the boxy shell and appreciate the sound instead.



Agreed, the $70 BA10's existence and price tag illuminate the entire price-to-performance debate.

Of course, I believe this is true of the AS12 as well but I'm unashamedly biased.




IEMusic said:


> Listening to the BA10, all I can think is WHY THE .... DO THE ASX AND ASF EXIST?!



I can't sit still on this one.

My ASF is an absolute 8 out of 10. I really enjoy its low end and mid-centric presentation. After having it for several weeks the only drawbacks I can point out are the 1500hz peak and that the treble is a little too polite.

The 1500hz peak give the upper midrange a bold vividness that make the ASF sound *alive*.






Occasionally, it can be a bit strident, but only on occasion.

For instance



Spoiler



Between the 1:47 minute to 2:30 minute mark on the vocals overstep.
I remedied this by drawing down the 1500hz by a few db.

In addition, I found that the gentle percussion in the track, starting at the 25 second mark, should have slightly more presence so I remedied that as well.




I find the tone, timbre, density and weight of instruments and vocals to sound uncannily natural for an all-BA set. I understand the controversy surrounding the ASF but, those two caveats aside, it's works incredibly well with my gear.




I currently have narrow bore silicone eartips on the ASF which only intensify the upper midrange. Wider (ZSN Pro) nozzles and wide bore silicone eartips should afford more composure for the upper midrange, release some of the lower treble and let the lower frequencies breathe.

I've been overwhelmed at work so I still haven't swapped for wider nozzles yet. When I do swap for wider nozzles I will also install wide bore eartips which should break up the concentrated upper midrange (1500 hz), spread out the bass and slightly release the lower treble. If my expectations are realized then I won't need to EQ anything and I'll probably have one of the more natural sounding all-BA sets for an estimated total of $90 (ASF + ZSN Pro nozzles + wide bore silicone eartips + KB Ear 8-Core QDC cable) which is just ridiculously inexpensive.

Thank you, KZ Acoustics.

I get it, though. Some people just "hate" the ASF but I think KZ is on to something with the "s" model balanced armatures. It's unfortunate that the dynamic-like tone, timbre and richness of the "s" model balanced armatures is lost in the controversy of the unpopular tuning. To me, the ASF is a ba**$$ set that needs minor EQ adjustments or perhaps minor modifications (nozzle swap and wide bore eartips) to run side by side with KZ's best (BA10 & AS12).

I spent three uninterrupted hours this evening comparing the BA10, AS12 and ASF back to back. I am looking forward to modding the ASF because I believe they will be able to hold their own, even in the presence of the BA10 and AS12.

Rest assured, that's no easy task but given the ASF's inner hardware I'm confident that it will not disappoint.


----------



## Nimweth

chinmie said:


> i remembered wanting to buy the Fearless because of the reviews, but luckily had the chance to audition it after a friend bought it.. because it turned out i didn't like it.
> Now this makes me curious about the BA10.. how do you compare it to the T2+, ZS10 Pro, and the Blons? i'm sure there would be differences in sound signature, but do they sit on the same level of SQ?
> 
> also does anyone have pictures of the red and black color in real life?


Here you are:


----------



## PhonoPhi

guido said:


> anyone compared the BA10 and ZAX ?


It is all-BAs vs a hybrid, so it is very much dependent on personal taste and preferences.
I personally really like ZAX a lot other than the DD bass.

BA bass of BA10 is one of the best, the rest is OK and competent, but the older drivers are noticeably grainy (I am personally OK with it, but some can call it "less refined").

Then, in my opinion, ASF could be BA10+, if not for those nozzle designs; while ASX be AS16+ (they are to me with a wide nozzle, they get all the listening time now, no rotation among KZ, only SFR MT300 with its unique treble and least dynamic bass get some).


Gummybuns said:


> Does it really differ from AS10 even if they basically had the same internals? I skipped BA10 because of the fit, as it's one of the major complains. Now I'm starting to regret it. Lol.


While the drivers are the same, the crossover is definitely different (4-way in BA10 vs. 3-way in AS10 according to Master @Slater) and I can attest that BA10 are not as prominently impedance dependent as AS10 (I would still keep in mind that as for all-BAs with the nominal impedance of 14-15 Ohm, the source is important despite they can be reasonably driven from a smartphone).

The acoustic chamber is also different, AS10 treble is likely more dampened; the treble of BA10 is one of the most extended of all KZs.

I often think of BA10 as a refined version of AS10, but reach more for AS10 - its warm unique signature was my first all -BA love.


----------



## Jet Black

PhonoPhi said:


> I often think of BA10 as a refined version of AS10, but reach more for AS10 - its warm unique signature was my first all -BA love.



How is the 10 driver kz zs10 pro compared to ba10? Is ba10 still way better?


----------



## trumpethead

trumpethead said:


> Got my order today, was supposed to be BA10 plus an addtl Kbear cable... Well only the cable was in the package and the front looked like it had been torn open and taped back together... Hoping they were just shipped separately and the BA10 is on its way.. What do you guys think.... Would the BA 10 fit in this package??


Thanks, As I thought the BA10 box is much bigger and would be very difficult to fit in the same package although seller is saying they were shipped together.. Seller advised me to make a video of me opening package which of course I can't do because I already opened it.. Then they have me usps contact info for me to get proof from PO that it was stolen, like they are really gonna admit that... Then file a dispute with my photos.. Very frustrating especially because I was so looking forward to getting these.. Maybe it will still come separately but I feel like I'm coming to the end of my AE buying journey.... Just too risky and anxiety provoking...


----------



## pholcus1975

Hi all, just a hint of which KZ should I get.
My preferences: large soundstage,tight bass, no bass cannons, no midbass bleeding, clarity,  detailed highs, crispy mids (snare must sound like a snare!)
My iems: Hifiman re 600: lacks bass ,too midcentric, no sparkling highs.
Soundmagic ER80: very good for my taste, lacks a little definition on subbass,mids could be slightly crispier. Highs almost ok, just a little artificial. Soundstage too narrow.
TWS : Cambridge Audio Melomania 1: so far my favourite tuning: wide soundstage, excellent crispy mids, good clarity and crispy highs without being harsh.

Music: hard rock, Heavy Metal, classic rock, thrash metal. I need tight bass for double bassdrum kicks.
I read a lot of post, I think I should go for ks10pro or ksa12.
Any help much appreciated, thanks!


----------



## Nimweth

pholcus1975 said:


> Hi all, just a hint of which KZ should I get.
> My preferences: large soundstage,tight bass, no bass cannons, no midbass bleeding, clarity,  detailed highs, crispy mids (snare must sound like a snare!)
> My iems: Hifiman re 600: lacks bass ,too midcentric, no sparkling highs.
> Soundmagic ER80: very good for my taste, lacks a little definition on subbass,mids could be slightly crispier. Highs almost ok, just a little artificial. Soundstage too narrow.
> ...


At the risk of repeating myself, BA10!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Jet Black said:


> How is the 10 driver kz zs10 pro compared to ba10? Is ba10 still way better?


A good question, and the answer in two words: ZS10 pro and BA10 are even more different than BA10 and ZAX (ZAX in some sense have a bit of ZS10 pro heritage).

ZS10 pro and BA10 are two extremes of the rich KZ tuning spectrum.

BA10 are as monitoring and analytical as KZ could master then (and even now).

ZS10 pro are as fun V with oomphy engulfing bass and rich sparkly treble. Then the mids are not totally deserted as in some simple dual hybrids, courtesy of 4 BAs of ZS10 pro.

ZS10 pro are great fun with electronic music, especially electric bass guitars (it was really wow experience to me, especially since I listen mostly to classical music).

ZS10 pro are truly unique. Better DD driver one may ask -- C10 pro are exactly this, and then the gain in technical abilities hardly compensated for the losses in the fun factor.

So neither are "better", both are very good for what they were intended.


----------



## trumpethead

IEMusic said:


> Works perfectly fine off of a phone or tablet for me.  I haven’t had time to explore it with other sources yet.
> 
> 
> For reference, here is the BA10 box and a KBEar cable box.


Thanks for the photo.. I would think hard to fit both in that one package..


----------



## ChristianM (Jan 12, 2021)

Will this new kbear silver cable good for KZ ZSX? it's pure silver cable and I read that silver cables increases highs/treble and make sound harsh? or should I go for KZ gold silver mixed cable?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001965474886.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.3.828f1640XCcDZV

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

The reason I don't like KZ gold silver cable is that it's very big fat and plug/jack is very large. but if this sounds better than silver cable then i can deal with this.


----------



## StacoHRP

Nimweth said:


> At the risk of repeating myself, BA10!



Idk what i missed, but.. How can this BA10 not popular on their first time released?


----------



## n0de5

StacoHRP said:


> Idk what i missed, but.. How can this BA10 not popular on their first time released?


It either flew under most people's radar or people ignored it because it was all BA.


----------



## Nimweth

StacoHRP said:


> Idk what i missed, but.. How can this BA10 not popular on their first time released?


When it came out I think it was quite expensive for Chi-fi.


----------



## voicemaster

Coz people want the new and latest pokemons.


----------



## pholcus1975 (Jan 12, 2021)

Ok, ordered BA10 in red, just € 53.80 in amazon.it. We'll see how they pair with a Cowon PM2. They will arrive in Friday.


----------



## nraymond

StacoHRP said:


> Idk what i missed, but.. How can this BA10 not popular on their first time released?



It received a lot of flak when it came out for the shape, which for people with small ears isn't good. I think I have fairly average ears and no discomfort for me. One thing you can say about the shape is that it's original (not a copy-cat of anything else that I know of at least), which I think is pretty great.


----------



## n0de5

The ZS6 I fixed up last night now has less bass in the broken and now fixed side. The BA drivers were the only ones that broke off though, so I don't know why the DD isn't performing as well. Does anybody know why this is happening?


----------



## StacoHRP

n0de5 said:


> It either flew under most people's radar or people ignored it because it was all BA.





Nimweth said:


> When it came out I think it was quite expensive for Chi-fi.





voicemaster said:


> Coz people want the new and latest pokemons.



I remember back then in the end of 2018, friend of mine grab the BA10 for $60 & AS10 as well (no warranty). He become pokemon master and cannot
resist all of KZ's latest product. Fortunately for me, i can compare them and based on the memories i prefer the AS10 because it's more balance vs V-shape BA10 sound signature.
For me, the accessories it comes with that make me not want to purchase one of them.


----------



## trumpethead

Nimweth said:


> Here you are:


Seeing how Beautiful they look in the Black and Red really ticks me off, that after waiting over 40 days for delivery some freaking worker had the audacity to rip my package open and steal my BA10 and then tape the package back up.. I really hope I'm wrong and they are still coming somehow but it dosent look good... Dispute filed, Let's see if AE is going to Do The Right Thing!!


----------



## artatgray

Nimweth said:


> Here you are:



I passed on these last year, due to the shape, when I was shopping for a full BA and purchased the AS10 instead. While I quite liked the AS10, when the ASX was released I couldn't resist and sold them. When I initially listened to the ASX, I was disappointed. However, once I EQed them, I had absolutely no regrets whatsoever and now recommend them to anyone who is willing to EQ them as I did. Seriously, they went from dull to amazing in a matter of minutes.


----------



## Mouseman

ChristianM said:


> Will this new kbear silver cable good for KZ ZSX? it's pure silver cable and I read that silver cables increases highs/treble and make sound harsh? or should I go for KZ gold silver mixed cable?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001965474886.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.3.828f1640XCcDZV
> 
> ...


KBear has a copper cable that's a bit better match. I have it, and it's a great cable. They also have a copper/silver one if you're going for treble for some reason. Both are much better cables than the KZ stuff, IMO.


----------



## IEMusic

scratchmassive said:


> As my first foray into the chi-fi world, I've been really loving the KZ ZAX. So much that I've already ordered better cables and xelastec tips to tweak them further. Now I'm eager to get my next set of chi-fis
> 
> Does anyone have some (KZ or not) suggestions at <USD$100 for IEMs that don't need an amp? Preference for some v-shape and presence to the bass.


I vote for the BA10, as it is an all-BA IEM, for variety.



chinmie said:


> i remembered wanting to buy the Fearless because of the reviews, but luckily had the chance to audition it after a friend bought it.. because it turned out i didn't like it.
> Now this makes me curious about the BA10.. how do you compare it to the T2+, ZS10 Pro, and the Blons? i'm sure there would be differences in sound signature, but do they sit on the same level of SQ?


No doubt, the timbral accuracy of the T2+ and BLONs, as single DDs, is much better.  The technicalities of the BA10, such as soundstage, imaging, as especially microdetail retrieval are much better.   Detail retrieval can easily match good mid-fi products, IMO.   The BA10 is V-shaped, but the mids don’t really sound recessed to me, more like the BLONs than the ZS10Pro.  The coarseness of the BAs in the BA10 sounds equivalent to the BAs in the ZS10Pro to me.  I think they are on roughly the same level, but with different strengths.   However, if one is big on technicalities, I think the BA10 is a couple levels above the rest.



Alpha Whale said:


> ...once again, FR graphs provide helpful information but they don't tell the whole story.
> 
> 
> I can't sit still on this one.
> ...


Yeah, I was quite surprised at the similarities in the graph of the S8P vs the BA10, yet the tuning is so much more enjoyable on the BA10, and not at all grating and fatiguing.

I posted that “tongue in cheek”, and I’m glad you commented.  I really do want to like the ASF, but just find it way too dark for my tastes, even with generous EQ.   I will probably mess with it more when I have some time.   I don’t know if I will try changing out the nozzle though.  I want KZ to mix the newer technology of the ASF with the tuning of the BA10.  I’m glad there are many that do like the ASF and ASX though, as variety is the spice of life. 



PhonoPhi said:


> BA bass of BA10 is one of the best, the rest is OK and competent, but the older drivers are noticeably grainy (I am personally OK with it, but some can call it "less refined").
> 
> Then, in my opinion, ASF could be BA10+, if not for those nozzle designs; while ASX be AS16+ (they are to me with a wide nozzle, they get all the listening time now, no rotation among KZ, only SFR MT300 with its unique treble and least dynamic bass get some).


The BA10 does have a grainy and “over-sharpened” sound at times, but I’m okay with it, b/c I like it for what it is, flaws and all.

I do need to mess with my ASF.



pholcus1975 said:


> Hi all, just a hint of which KZ should I get.
> My preferences: large soundstage,tight bass, no bass cannons, no midbass bleeding, clarity,  detailed highs, crispy mids (snare must sound like a snare!)
> My iems: Hifiman re 600: lacks bass ,too midcentric, no sparkling highs.
> Soundmagic ER80: very good for my taste, lacks a little definition on subbass,mids could be slightly crispier. Highs almost ok, just a little artificial. Soundstage too narrow.
> ...


I suggest the BA10, as I find it very competent and in fact ideal for metal.   It has the BA speed to keep up, powerful, punchy bass that doesn‘t bleed or smear, and some of the best imaging and soundstage for an IEM <$100.  My ZS10Pro and ZSX can’t keep up for fast double bass drum.  Even the grainy and metallic sound of the BAs is appropriate for metal, IMHO,


----------



## wopossum

n0de5 said:


> The ZS6 I fixed up last night now has less bass in the broken and now fixed side. The BA drivers were the only ones that broke off though, so I don't know why the DD isn't performing as well. Does anybody know why this is happening?



Wdym? Did you resolder BAs? Check if you connected the cable like R-R and L-L and not vice versa.


----------



## wladymeer

Anyone managed to fix APT-X BT module? 

I have a module that's charging correctly, but it can't be turned on - it seems like play button isn't responding at all.


----------



## ChristianM

Mouseman said:


> KBear has a copper cable that's a bit better match. I have it, and it's a great cable. They also have a copper/silver one if you're going for treble for some reason. Both are much better cables than the KZ stuff, IMO.


Thanks for reply,
are you referring this cable?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000938874310.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.31.635d5de6o7uOb7


----------



## Mouseman

ChristianM said:


> Thanks for reply,
> are you referring this cable?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000938874310.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.31.635d5de6o7uOb7


That looks like it. I have the balanced version.


----------



## n0de5 (Jan 13, 2021)

wopossum said:


> Wdym? Did you resolder BAs? Check if you connected the cable like R-R and L-L and not vice versa.


I did resolder the BAs but it appears that the 10mm DD is not working. I did switch the cable's polarity and made it sound worse so I switched it back to normal. Maybe my right side was just a dud. Oh well.
I'm going to take out the insides of a ZSN Pro and put them into the ZS6 shell. I'm going to be keeping the smaller 6mm DD driver from the ZS6 since that seems to be working.


----------



## he214b

i have got ba10 for a year, it sounds odds, i dont like it, for me it is just a faulty product.
and i have dq6 as well, it sounds ok, but i like 1dd z1 sound more, no idea why my preference have much difference with others.


----------



## Jet Black

he214b said:


> i have got ba10 for a year, it sounds odds, i dont like it, for me it is just a faulty product.
> and i have dq6 as well, it sounds ok, but i like 1dd z1 sound more, no idea why my preference have much difference with others.


You probably like the single driver configuration much better.


----------



## Tonymac136

he214b said:


> i have got ba10 for a year, it sounds odds, i dont like it, for me it is just a faulty product.
> and i have dq6 as well, it sounds ok, but i like 1dd z1 sound more, no idea why my preference have much difference with others.



People tend not to compare DQ6 with Z1 because the Z1 is a TWS set. Personally I'm with you on preferring the Z1, but it's close for me.


----------



## whitete

Damikiller37 said:


> My DQ6 arrived today  So far really liking them. Just as @Aparker2005 said, easily one of the best fitting KZs I've tried. Included photos of ZS5, ZSN and DQ6 side by side for reference. I was worried the part that sticks out on DQ6 would be uncomfortable but it's actually the opposite it really settles it in the ear and sits flush without sticking out. Sound so far is very good and balanced but I'll let them burn in a little before I really judge them.


I’m glad to see that the DQ6 fits you well. I too was worried about the knob that sticks out. Might have to get them now. Like I need another IEM! 🙄


----------



## voicemaster

whitete said:


> I’m glad to see that the DQ6 fits you well. I too was worried about the knob that sticks out. Might have to get them now. Like I need another IEM! 🙄


What makes the knob rarely an issue for DQ6 is because the body is small so you can still wiggle it around in an average size ears. Unlike ASF/ASX where the body is big and really doesn't allow for any wiggle at all.


----------



## wopossum (Jan 13, 2021)

n0de5 said:


> I did resolder the BAs but it appears that the 10mm DD is not working. I did switch the cable's polarity and made it sound worse so I switched it back to normal. Maybe my right side was just a dud. Oh well.
> I'm going to take out the insides of a ZSN Pro and put them into the ZS6 shell. I'm going to be keeping the smaller 6mm DD driver from the ZS6 since that seems to be working.



I don't think it's right to give up this early. Do you have a multimeter? You need to check if the driver is completely done, which I wouldn't believe is the case. Maybe someone in here could help you out.

If you don't, I believe you can check if it's working by using Cr2032 battery, they usually have these in PC motherboards. I have found a picture on google images coming from some Russian website I guess. If it's working then it should produce a high-pitched sound.


----------



## n0de5 (Jan 13, 2021)

I don't have a multimeter sadly. Do you know if this works without a Cr2032 battery? I believe they are 3.5v so I can find another voltage source if that works.


----------



## wopossum

n0de5 said:


> I don't have a multimeter sadly. Do you know if this works without a Cr2032 battery? I believe they are 3.5v so I can find another voltage source is that works.


Cr2032's are 3.0v. You can probably use any AAA battery.


----------



## n0de5

Yea I tried and the right side DD is dead. Oh well. I'm going to scrap the drivers that work out of the ZS6 and use the metal shell for a future project.


----------



## wopossum

n0de5 said:


> Yea I tried and the right side DD is dead. Oh well. I'm going to scrap the drivers that work out of the ZS6 and use the metal shell for a future project.


That's very unfortunate. Can you contact the seller and ask if he tested these before selling? Maybe he just got them and wasn't really using them himself.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 14, 2021)

*DQ6*

Smooth and punchy.

Nice to see KZ return to their roots and offer up a competent and competitive dynamic driver at the $30 price point.

*EDIT:  *

*That said, I am still tip rolling and I find that the DQ6 perform best with eartips that clean up the mid bass (which can be a bit too present throughout the presentation). Give the flip-tip starlines a shot or any eartips you possess that have a tendency to minimize low frequencies in your other earphones.

The flip-tips opened the DQ6 up considerably for me.*

The stock eartips made the DQ6 too warm and veiled for me. The eartips that lifted the mids and treble were the Rock Zircon eartips and the 8-core upgrade QDC cables I ordered are a comfortable fit. They were a good choice for the DQ6.

I'm addicted to the improved resolution and technical abilities of an all-BA set at the moment but listening to the DQ6 is like spending time with a lifelong friend. The hours just fly by when you're hanging out with the DQ6 and you look forward to hanging again.....soon.

If you want neutral, super detailed and airy look elsewhere but it's definitely worth your consideration if you want "*smooth and punchy*".

I'm still looking forward to eventually modding a pair of these. I just need to know if wider nozzles would improve things even further or ruin their charm.

$30 and you're in.

Good job, KZ.


----------



## Jet Black

Alpha Whale said:


> *DQ6*
> 
> Smooth and punchy.
> 
> ...


All the things you said, i also said when i first bought my kz zs10 pro... Weird feeling..


----------



## Pelicampe

Jet Black said:


> All the things you said, i also said when i first bought my kz zs10 pro... Weird feeling..



You mean again a side grade pokémon ?


----------



## The3DCie

Jet Black said:


> All the things you said, i also said when i first bought my kz zs10 pro... Weird feeling..


But it doesn't mean they sound the same, there are so much nuances that are so hard to put words on that the best thing to do is to listen to them (I don't have them yet, perhaps they'll end up in my next batch of donated earphones?   ) and hear what the differences are. 

And there's no doubt they will sound different as they have very different technologies to begin with!


----------



## Jet Black

Alpha Whale said:


> *DQ6*
> 
> Smooth and punchy.
> 
> ...





The3DCie said:


> But it doesn't mean they sound the same, there are so much nuances that are so hard to put words on that the best thing to do is to listen to them (I don't have them yet, perhaps they'll end up in my next batch of donated earphones?   ) and hear what the differences are.
> 
> And there's no doubt they will sound different as they have very different technologies to begin with!


Which sound between the two do you prefer then?


----------



## The3DCie (Jan 14, 2021)

Jet Black said:


> Which sound between the two do you prefer then?


Well, none of them for now!   

First, because I did order DQ6 but haven't received them yet (they are on their way to my house, should be there next week...) and second because I don't own ZS 10 Pro, of all the hybrids I tried I have never been convinced by how they sound so I'm avoiding any hybrid now.

But I'll report how I hear them when they'll arrive at home!


----------



## pholcus1975

Arrived 1 day in advance, tonite I will try. I was scared by fit, just tried they don't disturb me


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 14, 2021)

Jet Black said:


> Which sound between the two do you prefer then?



Please note my recent edit to my above post.

So, do I prefer the DQ6 or ZS10 Pro?

Two things.

1) Like many of us here (but not all of us) I'm a bit of an old hand at getting what I need from my earphones. I have a large eartip collection which I use as sort of a hands-on manual approach for increasing or decreasing different frequencies. For a simple plug and play in-ear for the average Joe I would recommend the ZS10 Pro.

Then there are hobbyists and people like me that look for diamonds in the rough. We have the patience to sift through eartips and other gear to find out an earphones true capabilities if there are any. To me, the DQ6 is the diamond in the rough for a hobbyist and not a simple plug and play for the average Joe. It's bassy with the stock eartips but with eartips that clean up the lower frequencies the mid and high frequencies are allowed to breathe and come to the forefront. With this set up the DQ6 rivals my Sony MH755 for tonal accuracy and for presentation. With the flip-tips (KZ starline) my DQ6 is more revealing than my recabled MH755.

Surprisingly, the DQ6 actually sounds better with classical music than my MH755 because the lower frequencies are more controlled. Stringed instruments have plenty of texture, brass instruments have more presence and organ notes have perfect weight. Timbre and tone are on point.

2) I do like the ZS10 Pro but for me they were never the panacea that most consider them to be. I do like the ZS10 Pro. I've had no trouble cleaning up its bass with different eartips but the upper treble could benefit from a little more refinement which eartips could not remedy.

For me, the DQ6 truly delivers.

I'm not necessarily a fan of the Brandenburg Concertos but the DQ6 is capable of superb imaging and separation.

In this performance the members of this ensemble are literally standing just a few feet away from each other and the DQ6 presents the performance accurately.





In this performance you feel as if you are on the bench, side by side, with Rubinstein.




The DQ6 is a great effort from KZ if you have the patience to find the sweet spot.

Like I said, a diamond in the rough for the hobbyist.


----------



## The3DCie

Thanks for your comments, I'm even more impatient to get them!


----------



## Viber

regancipher said:


> The FIIL T1 Pro are my best earbuds of 2020 for the money.
> 
> They just tick so many boxes for such little dollar, it's astonishing.
> 
> ...



I know this post is old, but after receiving the FiiL T1 Lite which are on par or better than it's predecessors in the series (according to reviews) -  I must say your post is misleading.  

My ZS6+12$ buggy Kz BT cable sounds WAYYYYYYYYYYYY better than the FiiL.   This is like comparing Kei$ha to  Sarah McLachlan, like comparing a Pentium 4 to a Core i7 and yes, like comparing Mario Balotelli to  Jozy Altidore  in the premier league.

I can't even imagine how much better newer KZs sound with newer adapters.

I'm sticking with Mario from now on, thank you.


----------



## n0de5

wopossum said:


> That's very unfortunate. Can you contact the seller and ask if he tested these before selling? Maybe he just got them and wasn't really using them himself.


He said that he tested it but he probably stuck it into his ears for 2 seconds and pressed play on spotify and went, "Yep, this works."


----------



## BubisUK

My take on DQ6 is that I like them with some of my music and in particular with old Bowie stuff and Die Antwoord 😄 For the price they are really nice and very comfortable iem.


----------



## pholcus1975 (Jan 14, 2021)

Hi guys, here are my  1st impressions on BA10:
Source: Cowon PM2

Just finished tip rolling, trying spinfit, ortofon and a bunch of other tips, I ended with stock tips large. They're quite long and give a right amount if bass. Anything other I tried killed bass.
Fit is not a problem , even if I got small ears, shell doesn't hurt so far.
Bass: at 1st impression I felt it was too bass light, but with right tip size and some tweaking, I got a good seal and I can say bass is tight and fast without bleeding into midbass, which it was I was looking for. 
Mids: crispy, full bodied, with enphasis on upper mids. Not bad, but there's some lack of coherence, I hope will improve with burn in.
Highs: at first listening I was disappointed, a little grainy with some emphasis on I think about 8.5 khz. They sound artificial to me, without giving too much extension. Hope they will get better with burn in.
Soundstage: pretty wide but I feel it mostly very high, I like it a lot, I feel I'm under the stage looking up to musicians. 
Details: excellent amount of details, you can hear every single instrument, exactly where it's supposed to be. 


More: they're super easy to drive, my PM2 must be used in iems mode, and I cannot pass 110 on 140 step volume, really ear blowing.
No hiss , even if very sensibile and with low imoedance.

I feel they peform better at low to mid volume, pushing them high,  they become too midcentric. 

Well this is my 1st BA iem, I come from re600 Hifiman and Soundmagic er80.
So far this is my best sounding iem, a steal for less than 55 €, even if it's still not perfect for my taste. 
Best part for me is tightness and speed of bass.
I feel I'm sure it will improve after burn in, it's already different from 3 hours ago.
Thanks to headfiers who pointed this iem to me.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Finally, after a lo-ong wait these two KZs showed up:




The (second) ASX is for the comparison with the modified one and then for more modifications (adjusting the wide nozzles properly, as nicely advised here, enlarging the sound guides of the mids, etc.)

DQ6 are just for enjoyment at the moment;
sadly less time available after the winter break...


----------



## artatgray

PhonoPhi said:


> The (second) ASX is for the comparison with the modified one and then for more modifications (adjusting the wide nozzles properly, as nicely advised here, enlarging the sound guides of the mids, etc.)



If you don't wish to get physical with the ASX, these EQ settings from the AutoEq github do an amazing job of retuning them:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASX


----------



## Pelicampe

Any comparaison between Z1 and DQ6 ?
They both use XUN driver, first is encenssed, what about second ? 


@Viber, I got FIIL T1PRO, you can seeing others IEM in my gear and I think T1Pro are not a WAAAAY under them.


----------



## Viber

Pelicampe said:


> @Viber, I got FIIL T1PRO, you can seeing others IEM in my gear and I think T1Pro are not a WAAAAY under them.



Honestly, I don't think it's even debatable or a matter of opinion lol

Put on a song with prominent electric guitars:
FiiL:  "Help! someone is frying my ears!!"
ZS6: "How the hell these things cost 25$?  let's hear that guitar song again".

Mind you, the differences between the Lite and Pro are:  Case, ANC, rubber wings and app options in favor of the PRO.   Sound it the same level or better on the Lite (according to reviews).


----------



## slex

pholcus1975 said:


> Arrived 1 day in advance, tonite I will try. I was scared by fit, just tried they don't disturb me





Give me a Five! ☺️


----------



## slex

pholcus1975 said:


> Hi guys, here are my  1st impressions on BA10:
> Source: Cowon PM2
> 
> Just finished tip rolling, trying spinfit, ortofon and a bunch of other tips, I ended with stock tips large. They're quite long and give a right amount if bass. Anything other I tried killed bass.
> ...


Just out of curiosity, did you rolled a double flange tips?


----------



## paulwasabii (Jan 15, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> I'm addicted to the improved resolution and technical abilities of an all-BA set at the moment but listening to the DQ6 is like spending time with a lifelong friend. The hours just fly by when you're hanging out with the DQ6 and you look forward to hanging again.....soon.
> 
> Good job, KZ.



What you said is what I said too, if you change the tips and cable, it brings me back to old KZ style, warm and fun.  I wasn't a fan of the stock tips and that cable on the DQ6, too thin, a bit sharp. It gets better after a couple of hours, but still bothered me enough to go with starlines and LitzOCC cable.  While it is possible to go leaner and thinner with different tips, I still think it sounds better as a warmer  V shape set.  For those looking for a more detailed sound, can push it the other way.  And as others have said, it is very comfortable to me also.

I am a bit jaded from recently listening to the S.e.n.f.e.r KP580.  Another big V set with more sub bass.  Both are a welcome trip back to bass land.


----------



## trumpethead

I purchased the BA10 this morning from Amazon for $47 USD delivered in 3 days to replace the one that was stolen in Transit from AE. It was a few extra dollars than the first one however the peace of mind and quick delivery makes up for it. Still don't know if I'm going to be credited via my dispute for the first stolen one but If not I don't think I will ever be trusting of ordering anything from AE again... We will see... BRING ON THE BA10!!!


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 15, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> The (second) ASX is for the comparison with the modified one and then for more modifications (adjusting the wide nozzles properly, as nicely advised here, enlarging the sound guides of the mids, etc.)




Looking forward to the feedback regarding the ASX modifications.





PhonoPhi said:


> DQ6 are just for enjoyment at the moment;



If you have a set of eartips that reduce lower frequency response I think you'll be stunned at the realism of the DQ6 presentation.

With most eartips, for me, the DQ6 was a smooth and warm presentation with a lot of kick (sometimes an ever present kick).

Eartips that reduce mid bass frequencies turn the DQ6 into one of KZ's best models yet.

When I found out they were releasing a 3 DD set I knew I'd pick up a few sets but I had no idea that the $29 DQ6 would climb the charts so quickly for me.

When B9Scrambler posted the FR graph that was a good sign of how the DQ6 was tuned.

I've been telling myself "*yeah, but you're still in the honeymoon stage*".

Honestly?

Yes, I am. But after listening to multiple genres (with said eartips) in the wee small hours of the morning it seems that reality is setting in that the DQ6 is one of KZ's best.

B9 mentioned the notable 7khz lift so those sensitive to that specific frequency should take that in to consideration but *I'm finding the DQ6 is to KZ what the FH3 is to Fiio.*

The less expensive showstopper for the brand. 

Of course, all caveats apply (ymmv, "to my ears", etc.) but for me there is no getting around the fact that this Tri-Dy levels up like a champ.

Almost forgot to mention the gear used.
DQ6
KZ Starline flip-tips
Black 8 core QDC cable
Cowon Plenue 2, Cowon Plenue R



Spoiler














https://www.amazon.com/Kmrlim-FDBRO...ment/dp/B08CK41SBB?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

KZ fliptips











For me, the DQ6 is climbing the charts very quickly.


I'll also be purchasing a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter so to avoid purchasing multiple balanced cables. Looking forward to the additional options. Should have done this a while ago but the P2 & PR don't have dual DACs and I use both DAPs for in-ears mostly. Still, it's nice having the option.




_(wrong image, though. It will be 2.5mm male with 3.5mm female.)_


----------



## Viber

Alpha Whale said:


> Looking forward to the feedback regarding the ASX modifications.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why 29$?  yesterday i saw they're being sold for less than 20$


----------



## BubisUK (Jan 15, 2021)

Viber said:


> Why 29$?  yesterday i saw they're being sold for less than 20$


The cheapest is 19$ I just bought a Black one 😄
Edit: Silver one 18$.
So the prices are still down for sale.


----------



## pholcus1975

slex said:


> Just out of curiosity, did you rolled a double flange tips?


No, because no double flange I have fits my ear.


----------



## slex

Alpha Whale said:


> Looking forward to the feedback regarding the ASX modifications.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



👍Very informative. Expecting DQ6 arriving to me today and I think I may have the right tips chosen for it based on your rolling.☺️


----------



## pholcus1975

So I let BA10 burn in 24hrs and right now I'm listening to some Paul Gilbert guitar works. Ba10 seem more open and soundstage seems wider compared to brand new.
Important notice: in my search for ideal iem, I tried tweaking looking behind the grills, as spotted in a review here on Headfi. Surprise! Only one grill had foam attached , the other one no. Besides quite poor QC, now I'm running them without foam. Difference is not night and day, just a tad clearer sounding. Sometimes I feel grainy highs  xpecially on  hihat in certain recordings, for example My Michelle from GNR, but only on certain recordings
Tonight I'm comparing side to side re600, a 400 € iem when launched on market, Soundmagic er80,  an all rounder, tws Melomania 1, 1st tws from Cambridge Audio, and BA10. BA10 joins qualities from re600 (mids) with er80's bass and sparkling  highs, and adds a wider soundstage of its own. It could be perfect for my ears with more refined highs and a slight less emphasis on higher mids. 
Thanks to excellent Cowon eq I could drop 9khz and 16 khz a step on some songs, and it's ok.


----------



## wopossum

BubisUK said:


> The cheapest is 19$ I just bought a Black one 😄
> Edit: Silver one 18$.
> So the prices are still down for sale.


I'm confused. 19$ for what? DQ6 or I'm missing something?


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

wopossum said:


> I'm confused. 19$ for what? DQ6 or I'm missing something?


Lcd 2s were briefly going for 19 a pop.  Sadly the deals over


----------



## Pelicampe

DQ6 on the road. I will make some measurement vs BL01 BL03.

Can't resist at this faceplate and 3DD technos... Rabbit BlackHole


----------



## BubisUK (Jan 16, 2021)

wopossum said:


> I'm confused. 19$ for what? DQ6 or I'm missing something?


Yes it was for DQ6, sorry had a night shift yesterday so my brain was all over the place 😄


----------



## slex

Came, size comparison with KZ ZAX. The Magnectic Force is strong on DQ6👍


----------



## slex

Somewhere near NM2+ territory at first listen, burn baby burn now!😊


----------



## slex (Jan 17, 2021)

6 hrs of DQ6 run. Using (OFHC 24 AWG 6N High Purity Copper Cable 4.4mm) and JVC Spiral Dot++ on M6 Pro. Imagine a thicker version of NM2+ with a wider staging. Velvety rich in layering . No peakiness in the highs.



😄👍
Edited: Cable Used.


----------



## Viber

slex said:


> Somewhere near NM2+ territory at first listen, burn baby burn now!😊



I find it hard to believe they are as good as a 170$ set...


----------



## slex

Viber said:


> I find it hard to believe they are as good as a 170$ set...


Me either, KZ hit the jackpot on these !!!😊


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Viber said:


> I find it hard to believe they are as good as a 170$ set...


price ≠ quality


----------



## Viber

Dr Rez said:


> price ≠ quality



So the  NM2+ are a failure?


----------



## slex

Viber said:


> So the  NM2+ are a failure?


No, I just ordered 3DT🤣


----------



## Jet Black

Dq6 way better than a blon bl-01 or bl-03?


----------



## BubisUK

Jet Black said:


> Dq6 way better than a blon bl-01 or bl-03?


Dont know about these, but I like them more than tin t2 plus


----------



## PhonoPhi

Viber said:


> I find it hard to believe they are as good as a 170$ set...


It is definitely so much easier to believe that it is hard to believe for many...

Some reviewers have even "special gestures" for KZ, as in " it is surely great, but for KZ". I am sure it helps them to rationalize/justify their 2k+ IEMs at least somewhat in the comparative context 

I can attest DQ6 are really great, quite unbelievably great for ~$20. DDs are not my piece of cake by far (I am all into all-BAs), but KZ got the mighty lows with ZUN, decent treble and did not sacrifice much the mids in their V-L (?) tuning of DQ6.

The build is nice (better than ASX/ASF to me), the fit is nice.

Did their beat Blon 03 in that sweet organic tuning - I do not think so, but there are more aspects/criteria to choose DQ6 over BL-03, I would think (bass, fit, fun).

So how much one needs to pay to get something definitely better than DQ6- should definitely depend on personal tastes, and can be really $100+.

I have no affiliation with KZ (no any discounts in any form), I ordered my second set of DQ6 right after getting the first (just in case).


----------



## Jet Black

BubisUK said:


> Dont know about these, but I like them more than tin t2 plus


Hmmm I have a kz zs10 pro and a blon bl-01. Is it a step up in sound quality perhaps? I'm thinking it's also like the zs10 pro with lesser treble and more bass.


----------



## slex

Jet Black said:


> Dq6 way better than a blon bl-01 or bl-03?


DT02 from Tiandirenhe might be better😊


----------



## Tonymac136

Jet Black said:


> Hmmm I have a kz zs10 pro and a blon bl-01. Is it a step up in sound quality perhaps? I'm thinking it's also like the zs10 pro with lesser treble and more bass.



To me it's a sidegrade to the BL01, better technicalities but worse timbre. It's much easier to drive though.

Don't have the ZS10 Pro to compare but it's better than the CCA C12 or the ZAX to my ears.


----------



## BubisUK

Jet Black said:


> Hmmm I have a kz zs10 pro and a blon bl-01. Is it a step up in sound quality perhaps? I'm thinking it's also like the zs10 pro with lesser treble and more bass.


I will quote a guy from youtube 😄, it wasnt for the DQ6, but It fits perfectly on some songs "it takes me places", that what is all about for me 😄 listening to 'where I end and you begin' now and It is just perfect all absorbing wall of sound all around 👍


----------



## voicemaster

Jet Black said:


> Dq6 way better than a blon bl-01 or bl-03?


Well its all depends on what your preference. The dq6 is tighter, a bit more forward mid than both blons imho. Fit also is alot better on dq6 than the blons. The bl01 tho is built like a tank and quite substantially heavier than dq6 and bl03.


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> It is definitely so much easier to believe that it is hard to believe for many...
> 
> Some reviewers have even "special gestures" for KZ, as in " it is surely great, but for KZ". I am sure it helps them to rationalize/justify their 2k+ IEMs at least somewhat in the comparative context
> 
> ...


I too have ordered another set (black) of dq6.


----------



## guido

guys what about the ZAAAAAAAX!


----------



## paulwasabii (Jan 16, 2021)

Tonymac136 said:


> To me it's a sidegrade to the BL01, better technicalities but worse timbre. It's much easier to drive though.
> 
> Don't have the ZS10 Pro to compare but it's better than the CCA C12 or the ZAX to my ears.



I am with you on this.  The BL01 with amp, tips, cable, and fit issues is still slightly better for me but the DQ6 is basically $1 starlines/starlines flipped and $8 copper cable to get something that is close enough.  I can certainly understand those who didn't like the BL01 or overly thick BL03 preferring the DQ6.

Everyone is ordering another set, making me consider getting the silver


----------



## TheVortex

I am glad I got the silver DQ6 and they are great for the price but I prefer the CCA CST over them which are half the price. The single DD is more coherent then the triple setup in my opinion and the only negative is the attached cable.


----------



## Tonymac136

TheVortex said:


> I am glad I got the silver DQ6 and they are great for the price but I prefer the CCA CST over them which are half the price. The single DD is more coherent then the triple setup in my opinion and the only negative is the attached cable.



I thought I was going mad or hearing things! I definitely hear a bit of tonal weirdness at certain frequencies, they're also just a tad bright for me. Considering how poor my higher frequency hearing is, I'm really susceptible to stabby trebles. They're not that bad but they are right on the limit for me.


----------



## povidlo

TheVortex said:


> I am glad I got the silver DQ6 and they are great for the price but I prefer the CCA CST over them which are half the price. The single DD is more coherent then the triple setup in my opinion and the only negative is the attached cable.


Couldn't agree more. Got both recently. CST is nice and punchy. DQ6 has a severe subbass roll off which is disturbing. Hope it will improve with burn in due to weird 3DD config.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 16, 2021)

I have CCA CST as well, and surely single DD is more coherent, but then DQ6 have some good approximation of resolution.

Also with the non-detachable cable of CST, CCA finally lost me. They have another single-DD IEM (green one) that could serve the ultrabudget one, and adding few bucks for the interchangeable connector and possibly giving an option for the choice of better wood would make all the sense to me.

As for ZAX, it is still the best hybrid KZ, very competitive at $50.  DQs are somewhat in between ZAX and a single-DD, such as CST.

Again, I mostly in all-BAs, but DQ6 really pleasantly surprised me.


----------



## Mouseman

All this talk about the DQ6 is driving me nuts.  Mine has been stuck in Jersey for 2 weeks now at the "distribution center". Ali shipping has gotten really bad the last few months.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Mouseman said:


> All this talk about the DQ6 is driving me nuts.  Mine has been stuck in Jersey for 2 weeks now at the "distribution center". Ali shipping has gotten really bad the last few months.



It is probably due to the trade embargo issued by US. Along with UK and India, they are trying to undermine China's most famous money minting goose. It is really unfortunate that as consumers we are being made to suffer in a supposed free/liberal economy.


----------



## Mouseman

Dani157 said:


> It is probably due to the trade embargo issued by US. Along with UK and India, they are trying to undermine China's most famous money minting goose. It is really unfortunate that as consumers we are being made to suffer in a supposed free/liberal economy.


I think it's more because the US's postal service is currently a huge dumpster fire. The package is in the country, but it hasn't made any progress in weeks. I've already had to file several disputes for other orders, I hope I don't have to on these.


----------



## Tonymac136

Dani157 said:


> It is probably due to the trade embargo issued by US. Along with UK and India, they are trying to undermine China's most famous money minting goose. It is really unfortunate that as consumers we are being made to suffer in a supposed free/liberal economy.



No problems with service here in the UK. About 14 days all in door to door. Just 20% more expensive now.


----------



## Viber

I kinda wish KZ would drop some closed bass monsters already.
  I want it to have the technical ability so it still sounds good in the mids and treble, but overall i want something different and more fun in my collection than another fake "monitor sound".

Find a way to stick a 20mm driver in there!


----------



## BubisUK

Tonymac136 said:


> No problems with service here in the UK. About 14 days all in door to door. Just 20% more expensive now.


We will pay now for all the tax we 'saved' before 😄


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> I kinda wish KZ would drop some closed bass monsters already.
> I want it to have the technical ability so it still sounds good in the mids and treble, but overall i want something different and more fun in my collection than another fake "monitor sound".
> 
> Find a way to stick a 20mm driver in there!


The blons are perfect for that.


----------



## The3DCie

It seems that for some who got DQ6, (DQ6) "honeymoon is over" as RadioHead would say in their "Backdrifts" song!   

And, at least for Slex they sound almost as good - if not better-(and quite identical?) to one of the most acclaimed iEMs of 2020's end of year, the extremely well received NM2+, wow!  

Anyway, with those differences in judgement (of course, unavoidable as we all hear things differently, with different sound preferences!), and as mine are on their way to my home, I'll hear by myself what they sound like! But I admit it's getting intriguing and I'm now impatient to test them.


----------



## TheVortex

Tonymac136 said:


> No problems with service here in the UK. About 14 days all in door to door. Just 20% more expensive now.





BubisUK said:


> We will pay now for all the tax we 'saved' before 😄



Indeed and mine only arrived in 7 days which is really fast surprisingly. I don't buy as much as I used to from Ali.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> The blons are perfect for that.



The 03?
I read their fit is weird and that always spell trouble for me.  I am curious though.

I have some large drivers Awei earphones which i like for bass fun...but i want that kz fit and tech ability as well.

Maybe the zs10 pro?


----------



## voicemaster

Yes, the honeymoon is over. Still love mine although it has been sidelined by a planar cans that cost almost 20x of the DQ6.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> The 03?
> I read their fit is weird and that always spell trouble for me.  I am curious though.
> 
> I have some large drivers Awei earphones which i like for bass fun...but i want that kz fit and tech ability as well.
> ...


Zs7


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Zs7



That's cruel man, i love the Zs6 and would probably get the zs7 if available at Ali.

Maybe we could all do a group petition to bring back the 7s?  :-D


----------



## Tonymac136

Viber said:


> The 03?
> I read their fit is weird and that always spell trouble for me.  I am curious though.
> 
> I have some large drivers Awei earphones which i like for bass fun...but i want that kz fit and tech ability as well.
> ...



The physical fit is fine. The eartips don't fit anyone and the stock cable pulls the 03 out of your ears.


----------



## TheVortex

Tonymac136 said:


> The physical fit is fine. The eartips don't fit anyone and the stock cable pulls the 03 out of your ears.



I was lucky with the stock tips of the 03 and the cable did pull them out of my ears and never had that problem with any KZ gear surprisingly.


----------



## Tonymac136

TheVortex said:


> I was lucky with the stock tips of the 03 and the cable did pull them out of my ears and never had that problem with any KZ gear surprisingly.



I believe later revisions shipped with slightly more normal tips, much the same as the ones shipped with the 05 and 01. Given the number of people who don't think the soundstage is "intimate" and who don't hear the uneven tonality slipping down the bass frequencies I might have to pick up a pair of later ones (mine were among the very first shipped, bought blind on Ali as a lucky bag).

KZ accessories do what they need to. Sometimes I find the medium tips too small and the large too big (on the DQ6 and ZST X off the top of my head) and the cables tangle really badly for whatever reason, but they do their job adequately. Worth bearing in mind when comparing to Blon where you need to budget for cable and tips.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Viber said:


> So the  NM2+ are a failure?


All I said was that higher price does not always mean higher quality or a better product.  Take from that what you will.


----------



## slex

guido said:


> guys what about the ZAAAAAAAX!


Easier to drive,that's for sure😊


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> The 03?
> I read their fit is weird and that always spell trouble for me.  I am curious though.
> 
> I have some large drivers Awei earphones which i like for bass fun...but i want that kz fit and tech ability as well.
> ...


Cut up the stem from the BL03 stock tips (they are trash anyway) about 1-2mm and insert it on the BL03 nozzle stem all the way until it touch the body. Buy AZLA Xelastec (I use XL) and enjoy your BL03. You can also buy the KBEAR 8 core silver plated 2 pin cable for a better cable experience.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

voicemaster said:


> Cut up the stem from the BL03 stock tips (they are trash anyway) about 1-2mm and insert it on the BL03 nozzle stem all the way until it touch the body. Buy AZLA Xelastec (I use XL) and enjoy your BL03. You can also buy the KBEAR 8 core silver plated 2 pin cable for a better cable experience.


Could you speak a little more on the sound comparison between the bl03 and dq6?


----------



## paulwasabii

Mouseman said:


> I think it's more because the US's postal service is currently a huge dumpster fire. The package is in the country, but it hasn't made any progress in weeks. I've already had to file several disputes for other orders, I hope I don't have to on these.



I have two in the same situation. Are yours stuck at the Ali distribution but never handed off to USPS?


----------



## voicemaster

Dr Rez said:


> Could you speak a little more on the sound comparison between the bl03 and dq6?


The dq6 is a more balance than the bl03. The bass is tighter on dq6 while the blon has more rumble and longer decay. The mid on dq6 is abit more forward and more detailed. The treble on both are rolled off, but the dq6 has a faster decay. If you like bassy iem, the blon is like having a ported subwoofer while the dq6 is a sealed subwoofer. If you love a more balance sound, the dq6 is the way to go imho.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

voicemaster said:


> The dq6 is a more balance than the bl03. The bass is tighter on dq6 while the blon has more rumble and longer decay. The mid on dq6 is abit more forward and more detailed. The treble on both are rolled off, but the dq6 has a faster decay. If you like bassy iem, the blon is like having a ported subwoofer while the dq6 is a sealed subwoofer. If you love a more balance sound, the dq6 is the way to go imho.


Great thanks.  So safe to say the dq6 is the most blon like model they make?  Squirt gun to your head which one do you keep?


I ask because I really like the 03 and am trying to decide between a zsx and the dq6.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 16, 2021)

Dr Rez said:


> Great thanks.  So safe to say the dq6 is the most blon like model they make?  *Squirt gun to your head which one do you keep*?
> 
> 
> I ask because I really like the 03 and am trying to decide between a zsx and the dq6.


DQ6. I think it is more versatile than the BL03. Fit is also much much better.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Cut up the stem from the BL03 stock tips (they are trash anyway) about 1-2mm and insert it on the BL03 nozzle stem all the way until it touch the body. Buy AZLA Xelastec (I use XL) and enjoy your BL03. You can also buy the KBEAR 8 core silver plated 2 pin cable for a better cable experience.



Wow, how come i never thought about cutting the eartips' stem? Haha

Does the bl03 get along with the bt20s pro? If so, using which connector?


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Wow, how come i never thought about cutting the eartips' stem? Haha
> 
> Does the bl03 get along with the bt20s pro? If so, using which connector?


regular 2pin


----------



## Mouseman

paulwasabii said:


> I have two in the same situation. Are yours stuck at the Ali distribution but never handed off to USPS?


That's what the situation seems to be. Did you buy them from LuckLZ?


----------



## Gazd

Just got the Dq6 and must say that I'm very happy with it! Just wondering that should I go for the ZAX next or should I spend my money on buying a better source than my galaxy s9 (Might be the Fiio M3K). I had the Zs5,6,7 but sold it all and now sticking with the Dq6


----------



## trumpethead

Mouseman said:


> All this talk about the DQ6 is driving me nuts.  Mine has been stuck in Jersey for 2 weeks now at the "distribution center". Ali shipping has gotten really bad the last few months.


I agree the shipping has gotten terrible.. Part of f the problem is the US Postal service.. Somewhere in its journey my BA10 was stolen from the package and the package was retaped with only the extra cable that I purchased along with the BA10.. . I have a dispute going that probably will determine whether or not I trust shipping from AE in the future.. Better to pay a bit more with Guarenteed delivery from Amazon, with a shorter delivery time and excellent customer care.. AE customer care is starting to get sketchy... Jmo


----------



## chinmie

Viber said:


> Wow, how come i never thought about cutting the eartips' stem? Haha
> 
> Does the bl03 get along with the bt20s pro? If so, using which connector?



i use the recessed 2pin for the Blons on my BT20S pro, but regular 2 pin connector also works


----------



## alamnp

Gazd said:


> Just got the Dq6 and must say that I'm very happy with it! Just wondering that should I go for the ZAX next or should I spend my money on buying a better source than my galaxy s9 (Might be the Fiio M3K). I had the Zs5,6,7 but sold it all and now sticking with the Dq6



better source, get BTR5, it will upgrade any of your current iem


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 17, 2021)

Tonymac136 said:


> I thought I was going mad or hearing things! I definitely hear a bit of tonal weirdness at certain frequencies, they're also just a tad bright for me. Considering how poor my higher frequency hearing is, I'm really susceptible to stabby trebles. They're not that bad but they are right on the limit for me.



Sounds like you may prefer a more warm presentation which the DQ6 can definitely do with a bit of eartip rolling. I've gone the other way, though, starting off warm and then working the DQ6 to deliver a more revealing presentation.

It's great to have a *very* comfortable in-ear with so much versatility.






PhonoPhi said:


> I have CCA CST as well, and surely single DD is more coherent, but then DQ6 have some good approximation of resolution.
> 
> Again, I mostly in all-BAs, but DQ6 really pleasantly surprised me.



I have to say that I, too, am very pleasantly surprised that the DQ6 holds the resolution that it does. The AS12 definitely outperforms the DQ6 on resolution but now the difficulty is that I have only one set of ears so which one do I listen to?

For classical music I think the AS12 takes the gold medal for its technical prowess and life-like presentation of stringed instruments. The quicker decay across the board keeps the presentation so very clean.

That said, the DQ6 still performs well with classical so it takes the silver medal. It does offer more weight in each note but that is the "catch 22". The lower frequencies tend to decay at a slower pace so the presentation isn't as clean when compared side by side with the AS12.

The truth is that I had a much more difficult time regarding preference when listening to other genres. The benefit of "more weight in each note", not to mention the improved timbre, give the DQ6 a very natural and velvet-like smoothness that is addicting

To my ears, the sound signature of these two in-ears are quite similar, which is what I was hoping for when I viewed B9's FR graph. It's the only FR graph I've seen as of yet and to my ears it is representative of what the DQ6 sounds like. I don't hear a sub bass roll off, just a clean, deep and textured frequency response.



Spoiler










The two have much in common and yet differ enough to compliment each other. The DQ6 offers the comfort of climbing into a bed fitted with flannel sheets in the dead of winter. You don't want to get out of bed. The AS12 offers the comfort of climbing into a bed fitted with cool cotton sheets on a warm summer evening. You can't wait to get into bed and feel the coolness of the cotton on your skin.

I am extremely happy with both models. They were both tuned very well.




Viber said:


> I kinda wish KZ would drop some closed bass monsters already.



Hopefully, KZ will put another ridiculously fun (non-TWS) dual dynamic in-ear on their drawing board for us since they are revisiting dynamic drivers.

Resurrect the sound signature of a perennial favorite.


Spoiler












voicemaster said:


> The dq6 is a more balance than the bl03. The bass is tighter on dq6 while the blon has more rumble and longer decay. The mid on dq6 is abit more forward and more detailed. The treble on both are rolled off, but the dq6 has a faster decay. If you like bassy iem, the blon is like having a ported subwoofer while the dq6 is a sealed subwoofer. If you love a more balance sound, the dq6 is the way to go imho.



Thanks for the feedback. I have older BossHiFi/Blon models but I skipped the 03 (fit), 05 (tuning), 05s (color) and the 01 (almost pulled the trigger on these).

Great timing on the release of the DQ6 for me.



And now KZ has finally released something I've been silently hoping they would release.


Spoiler


















I've wanted this color copper QDC from KZ.
$8 is a steal if they measure well enough.
Now, if they can also offer it in black as well.



I'm stoked but at $8 (full retail price) these should be standard issue on every KZ offered. 

Yes, the upgrade cables are an additional income stream for KZ and yes, KZ is almost singlehandedly responsible for making upgrade cables a necessity when it comes to buying Chi-Fi in-ears. 

Enough, already. 

Just include this cable (which probably costs them $1 or $2 to manufacture) with every KZ.  I'm getting more perturbed about having to replace the basic tangle-prone travesty that's included with each KZ. 

There is nothing wrong with a making a profit but I don't like KZ giving me the middle finger just because they can.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Tonymac136 said:


> No problems with service here in the UK. About 14 days all in door to door. Just 20% more expensive now.



My bad that I wasn't clear enough about UK. I was referring to the increased VAT and not shipping speed.


----------



## Gazd

alamnp said:


> better source, get BTR5, it will upgrade any of your current iem


Thanks. WIll 100% think about it


----------



## Nimweth

Viber said:


> That's cruel man, i love the Zs6 and would probably get the zs7 if available at Ali.
> 
> Maybe we could all do a group petition to bring back the 7s?  :-D


I think this is the only site where you can get the ZS7:  https://gbr.grandado.com/products/c...rphone-kz-zs6-as10-zst?variant=36497301700757
https://gbr.grandado.com/products/c...rphone-kz-zs6-as10-zst?variant=36497301700757


----------



## Viber

Nimweth said:


> I think this is the only site where you can get the ZS7:  https://gbr.grandado.com/products/c...rphone-kz-zs6-as10-zst?variant=36497301700757
> https://gbr.grandado.com/products/c...rphone-kz-zs6-as10-zst?variant=36497301700757



More expansive than ZAX hehe.
Its probably someone who sells them via dropshipping


----------



## Nimweth

Viber said:


> More expansive than ZAX hehe.
> Its probably someone who sells them via dropshipping


More expensive, but better!


----------



## paulwasabii

Mouseman said:


> That's what the situation seems to be. Did you buy them from LuckLZ?


No, one from AK Audio and one from ****. Both were from 11-11. The standard answer is contact the post office but it has not been handed off to the postal service.


----------



## Tonymac136

@Alpha Whale - yep you've got it there. I do prefer a warmer presentation without being too dark. Blon BL05S is my favourite IEM of all, though there is something addictive about the Blon 03 too. My hi-fi setup is Nad electronics, with a Rega turntable and big old Wharfedale floorstanders so I guess it's no surprise I like a warm, hefty presentation (without straying too far from neutral). I also listen really loud which doesn't help matters.

@Dani157 - the VAT is the same as we've always been subjected to. The only difference is we actually pay it now!


----------



## wopossum

Has anyone compared DQ6 in terms of sound signature and imaging/soundstage with KZ ZS5/ZS6(both v1 and v2s)?


----------



## IEMusic

I’m genuinely impressed with the BA10.  It certainly has it’s faults and limitations, and it is not the most natural sounding.  It’s can sometimes be like an LED LCD TV with oversaturated settings, but boy is it fun and exciting!  There is something about it’s overall tonality that I find simply enjoyable, just like the BL03.  I never get fatigued listening to it, and if I want to use some EQ, it responds really well to it.

I am certainly not claiming that it is “better“ than the Fearless S8 Pro, but all I can say is that I find it much more enjoyable to listen to, other than maybe timbral accuracy.


----------



## Slater

Viber said:


> That's cruel man, i love the Zs6 and would probably get the zs7 if available at Ali.
> 
> Maybe we could all do a group petition to bring back the 7s?  :-D



There’s a set on eBay right now


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> I thought I was going mad or hearing things! I definitely hear a bit of tonal weirdness at certain frequencies, they're also just a tad bright for me. Considering how poor my higher frequency hearing is, I'm really susceptible to stabby trebles. They're not that bad but they are right on the limit for me.



I noticed the same thing on my grey pair - some sort of tonal weirdness going on somewhere in the midrange.

I don’t have a lot of head time on them though, so it could have been the tips, cable, source, particular track, or even just my mood that day.

Either way, I’m waiting for my silver pair to arrive. Once it does, it will be easy to A/B them to see if there is something wrong with my grey pair, or if that’s just the way the coherency turned out with those particular 3 drivers.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Jan 18, 2021)

finally came my DQ6. Well, I'm amazed at their sound quality! Firstly, these headphones provide you with a fairly neutral sound delivery with excellent development of the high frequencies, while there is no brightness and loose upper mids as usual. The bass is a little soft, it lacks percussiveness and clarity a little, but in general, it is quite linear and does not bang in your head. The high frequencies are quite detailed and have very good weight. The landing is excellent, the hulls are very beautiful and mesmerizing. In fact, these are the same KZ Z1 only with bset dense tops.
my small video "hands on" (RU lang)


----------



## slex

Mr.HiAudio said:


> finally came my QD6. Well, I'm amazed at their sound quality! Firstly, these headphones provide you with a fairly neutral sound delivery with excellent development of the high frequencies, while there is no brightness and loose upper mids as usual. The bass is a little soft, it lacks percussiveness and clarity a little, but in general, it is quite linear and does not bang in your head. The high frequencies are quite detailed and have very good weight. The landing is excellent, the hulls are very beautiful and mesmerizing. In fact, these are the same KZ Z1 only with bset dense tops.
> my small video "hands on" (RU lang)



I'm guessing you using stock cable hence the bass is little soft? After some cable rollings, I ended up with OFHC 24 AWG 6N High Purity Copper Cable.☺️


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

slex said:


> you using stock cable


im using NiceHCK C8-1 Cable


----------



## slex

Mr.HiAudio said:


> im using NiceHCK C8-1 Cable


ok, do you think in your humble opinion ,the tuning of DQ6 is like a far-field home speakers?😊


----------



## pholcus1975

BA10 impressions after burn in: So, after about 80 hours burn in, I must say highs are tamed so that they're not grainy anymore. Same songs as benchmark, same device. At first  I wasn' t sure if keeping them, I was disappointed, but now I will keep them for sure.
Bass is incredibly tight and fast, listen to Portony's double bass work on Oblivion, by The Winery Dogs; it never looses control, listen to Krush by Niacin, where Billy Sheehan complex bass lines flow away with ease.
As said before,  burn in tamed highs so those grainy cymbals are gone.
I feel it's not perfect,  something about mids tonality doesn't satisfy me, but for 53.80 Euro it's a steal.


----------



## Nimweth

pholcus1975 said:


> BA10 impressions after burn in: So, after about 80 hours burn in, I must say highs are tamed so that they're not grainy anymore. Same songs as benchmark, same device. At first  I wasn' t sure if keeping them, I was disappointed, but now I will keep them for sure.
> Bass is incredibly tight and fast, listen to Portony's double bass work on Oblivion, by The Winery Dogs; it never looses control, listen to Krush by Niacin, where Billy Sheehan complex bass lines flow away with ease.
> As said before,  burn in tamed highs so those grainy cymbals are gone.
> I feel it's not perfect,  something about mids tonality doesn't satisfy me, but for 53.80 Euro it's a steal.


Try a pure copper cable. Timbre really improves in the mids.


----------



## pholcus1975

Nimweth said:


> Try a pure copper cable. Timbre really improves in the mids.


Could you please point me one good cable that fits BA10,  please? I usually only buy on Amazon


----------



## Nimweth

I use a Faaeal Hibiscus cable from Ali Express. Perhaps some other members could suggest a suitable cable for you from Amazon.


----------



## Slater

pholcus1975 said:


> Could you please point me one good cable that fits BA10,  please? I usually only buy on Amazon



Faaeal Hibiscus cable


----------



## pholcus1975

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07V5Y33G7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_P5GbGb5AA4JWZ

What about this one?


----------



## trumpethead

I recieved my BA10 today that I ordered from Amazon to replace the one stolen on AE.. 2 day Prime Shipping Rules!! First off there is no way with the size of the BA10 box and the Kbear cable box  that I ordered with it that both items would have fit in that one package that was sent so the missing earphones obviously were never in the package.. Still waiting for dispute resolution from AE.. On to the the BA10 from Amazon.... FANTASTIC!! Once I got the correct tips and seal.. Why did I wait so long to get these, might have saved me a lot of money instead of getting multiple sidegrades... This is the sound that I have been searching for, Detailed, Excellent tight, fast bass, Mids not too recessed with good clarity on the vocals... Highs are not overdone and I do not hear any of the grainyness that others have mentioned.. Instrument separation and Soundstage are just right... YA KNOW this is very much A Goldilocks set... Just Right!! BTW the fit is good for my ears ymmv... Glad I finally let go and got these.. Thanks to all who helped with the push!


----------



## The3DCie

pholcus1975 said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07V5Y33G7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_P5GbGb5AA4JWZ
> 
> What about this one?


That cable you linked has "type-c" connectors to the IEMs and I think BA10 is using a"type-b" connector so I would be careful with this cable...
As I don't have KZ BA10 I'm not 100% sure of the connector's type, probably someone who has a BA10 set can confirm the type of connector it uses.


----------



## IEMusic

pholcus1975 said:


> BA10 impressions after burn in: So, after about 80 hours burn in, I must say highs are tamed so that they're not grainy anymore. Same songs as benchmark, same device. At first  I wasn' t sure if keeping them, I was disappointed, but now I will keep them for sure.
> Bass is incredibly tight and fast, listen to Portony's double bass work on Oblivion, by The Winery Dogs; it never looses control, listen to Krush by Niacin, where Billy Sheehan complex bass lines flow away with ease.
> As said before,  burn in tamed highs so those grainy cymbals are gone.
> I feel it's not perfect,  something about mids tonality doesn't satisfy me, but for 53.80 Euro it's a steal.


The BA10 really is remarkable.   I think I may get a second pair.   I don’t find the treble harsh or grainy either, and also not metallic sounding, but the timbre is still not the most natural, which is not surprising.  Even so, I do enjoy it for classical music.   The technicalities it displays are quite astounding for its price. 



Nimweth said:


> Try a pure copper cable. Timbre really improves in the mids.


That’s what I’m using now.   The KBEar Rhyme with a standard 2 pin connector.   It’s a good looking combination also.


----------



## whitete

Viber said:


> The 03?
> I read their fit is weird and that always spell trouble for me.  I am curious though.
> 
> I have some large drivers Awei earphones which i like for bass fun...but i want that kz fit and tech ability as well.
> ...



Yea, I couldn’t get the 03s to fit me. My ear canals are pretty big and they don’t go in far enough.


----------



## whitete

Mouseman said:


> That's what the situation seems to be. Did you buy them from LuckLZ?



I just got my second pair of ZAX from LuckLZ. Ordered them 11/11!  Not buying from them again!


----------



## Alpha Whale

pholcus1975 said:


> Could you please point me one good cable that fits BA10,  please? I usually only buy on Amazon









$24 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Youkamoo-Bra...rphone+cable&qid=1611017716&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1


----------



## IEMusic

pholcus1975 said:


> Could you please point me one good cable that fits BA10,  please? I usually only buy on Amazon


Tripowin Zonie 16
https://www.amazon.com/Linsoul-Tripowin-Silver-Plated-Earphone/dp/B07ZQC6B9D

and Tripowin C8 are always solid recommendations for cables that are available on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Linsoul-TRIPOWIN-Braided-Earphone-Replacement/dp/B07SS91GLC


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

slex said:


> ok, do you think in your humble opinion ,the tuning of DQ6 is like a far-field home speakers?😊


the headphones just play smoothly, but they lack massiveness at low and low mids, as for me. It would be better if they used a speaker from ZSN PRO X


----------



## Pelicampe

What about BA10 vs CCA CA16 all BAs ?
In terme of resolution, speed and soundstage ? (Not tuning)
Thx




Nimweth said:


> Try a pure copper cable. Timbre really improves in the mids.



And for return of my hairs ?


----------



## Tonymac136

Mr.HiAudio said:


> the headphones just play smoothly, but they lack massiveness at low and low mids, as for me. It would be better if they used a speaker from ZSN PRO X



Better yet would be a wired version of the Z1. Single DD FTW.


----------



## Slater

Tonymac136 said:


> Better yet would be a wired version of the Z1. Single DD FTW.



+1


----------



## saldsald

IEMusic said:


> The BA10 really is remarkable.   I think I may get a second pair.   I don’t find the treble harsh or grainy either, and also not metallic sounding, but the timbre is still not the most natural, which is not surprising.  Even so, I do enjoy it for classical music.   The technicalities it displays are quite astounding for its price.
> 
> 
> That’s what I’m using now.   The KBEar Rhyme with a standard 2 pin connector.   It’s a good looking combination also.



I guess the BA10 should sound pretty close to the TRN BA5? The only difference between them is the BA10 has a 31005 instead of a 30095 in the BA5.


----------



## requal (Jan 20, 2021)

saldsald said:


> I guess the BA10 should sound pretty close to the TRN BA5? The only difference between them is the BA10 has a 31005 instead of a 30095 in the BA5.


As I remember those are different. BA5 is more natural in mids, and darker in lows, but had some peak at highs. BA10 had more transparent tuning. Cleaner midrange, lighter bass and more rolled off treble.


----------



## Nimweth

saldsald said:


> I guess the BA10 should sound pretty close to the TRN BA5? The only difference between them is the BA10 has a 31005 instead of a 30095 in the BA5.


The BA10 has a 4-way crossover, and two 30095. The BA5 has three 30095s and a 3-way crossover. Furthermore, the BA10 has no BAs in the nozzle. So they are quite different.


----------



## StacoHRP (Jan 20, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> The BA10 has a 4-way crossover, and two 30095. The BA5 has three 30095s and a 3-way crossover. Furthermore, the BA10 has no BAs in the nozzle. So they are quite different.



What's your liking then?
Just for my curiosity of those BA placement in general.
Always want to hear more from your thoughts .


----------



## Nimweth

StacoHRP said:


> What's your liking then?
> Just for my curiosity of those BA placement in general.
> Always want to hear more from your thoughts .


BAs placed in the nozzle often sound very bright. The BA10 is my favourite all BA IEM at the moment. I am currently testing the CCA CS16 (8BA) and it is very promising. I also have the BA5 and CCA C16.


----------



## pholcus1975

Ii's my favourite iem at the moment, I own re600 and soundmagic e80. I love the tight and fast bass, ideal for double bassdrum kicks. I removed foam under grills, sound is more airy and no sibilance anyway.  Mids tonality could be improved to be perfect imho. 
I suggest to burn in at least 50 hours, highs get tamed.


----------



## Redonexwing

Nimweth said:


> The BA10 has a 4-way crossover, and two 30095. The BA5 has three 30095s and a 3-way crossover. Furthermore, the BA10 has no BAs in the nozzle. So they are quite different.



BA5 has no ba in the nozzle.


----------



## Nimweth

Redonexwing said:


> BA5 has no ba in the nozzle.


Thank you for that.


----------



## artatgray

I'd be interested in a side by side comparison of the BA10 vs a retuned (via EQ or mods) ASX. Personally, I'm very happy with my EQed ASX - I'm listening with them right now... 📱🎧🎶😎


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 20, 2021)

artatgray said:


> I'd be interested in a side by side comparison of the BA10 vs a retuned (via EQ or mods) ASX. Personally, I'm very happy with my EQed ASX - I'm listening with them right now... 📱🎧🎶😎


I am all over modified (wide nozzles) ASX for more than a month now.

I got two pairs.
When I got a second ASX, I compared original with modified (I use the tips with the largest opening for the least constrains).

An original has some strength, but treble is quite curtailed and it feels scooped in low mids.
With the wide nozzles everything opens up, ASX are still a bit of bass-head IEMs for me, but they  do have everything to enjoy the music. The vents are really great to avoid the vacuum seal of most all-BAs.

BA10  have crisp tight bass, the treble is quite extended but without much peaks, so it is not overly prominent and intrusive.

Then for me, AS16 are a step forward from BA10 with a bit more overemphasized treble and even leaner bass (but those two same BAs are there if needed for the music I listen to).

I also still return to C16 for their thick lush mids, and U4 of HiSenior are my mid-centric IEM, where legendary Knowles ED29689 really shine.


----------



## saldsald

Nimweth said:


> The BA10 has a 4-way crossover, and two 30095. The BA5 has three 30095s and a 3-way crossover. Furthermore, the BA10 has no BAs in the nozzle. So they are quite different.


So since you have both, can you briefly describe their sonic difference?


----------



## Gummybuns (Jan 21, 2021)

Hi guys

I wanted to buy another pair for my collection and I've been considering two.

I don't mind the price as because technically those two are equally the same price.

I do have AS10 and AS16.


The choices are BA10 and AS12.


I know those two are designed and tuned differently but if you guys would pick, which of the two? Thanks.


Edit:
I went full retard on adding new iems lol.


----------



## wopossum

Gummybuns said:


> The choices are BA10 and AS12.


BA10 definitely, everyone's been hype about them lately. Especially for a "collection", this unit is worthy enough. 4-way crossover, fun-sounding IEM with the durable full-metallic shell.


----------



## jeromeaparis

Gummybuns said:


> I do have AS10 and AS16.
> 
> 
> The choices are BA10 and AS12.
> ...


Hi, I do have AS10 and AS12
We know that AS10 & BA10 have the same drivers, they should sound very close.
And AS12 has the reputation to sound better than AS16.

When I listen to them, AS12 has a different sound than AS10: AS12 bass are stronger, overall sound is even more pure, clear & detailed than AS10


----------



## Nimweth

saldsald said:


> So since you have both, can you briefly describe their sonic difference?


I am currently testing the CS16 and will be posting a review. I plan to include both these IEMs in my comparisons along with the C16 so you will be able to read it then.


----------



## ChrisOc

The final stage of the Head-Fi Members' Poll for IEMs is now open for voting. This is your opportunity to vote for your favourite IEMs. There are several KZ IEMs and others still in the running, make your vote count, vote for your favourite IEMs: 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...r-monitors-2020-please-read-the-rules.950854/


----------



## PhonoPhi

Gummybuns said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I wanted to buy another pair for my collection and I've been considering two.
> 
> ...


Both are very good choices.

To me, it would depend on your current perception of AS10 and AS16.

If AS10 warmth is to be build upon with great bass and good mids - AS12 will work nicely; the BA bass is the best out there! (and I do have some Knowles and Sonions to compare).

If AS16 are liked but treble is a bit too much and more bass is desired, then BA10 can work greatly.
The BA10 shells are very nicely built, a real masterpiece (minus the fit considerations).
At the same time, BA10 and AS10 are closely related in having the same drivers, BA10 being more balanced, more resonant, and also less source-dependent.

(I can only agree that AS12 are better than AS16, if treble is not much of a factor. AS12 do feature very potent treble BAs but they are heavily dampened, so are the higher overtones. Undampened, AS12 are a treble beast; customization of dampening offers great opportunities, in my opinion).

Overall, going through my thoughts above made me realize that AS12 will be more different and distinct IEM  to complement current AS10 and AS16 well.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 21, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> I am currently testing the CCA CS16 (8BA) and it is very promising.



Looking forward to your feedback on these,  particularly since there is little else to go on at the moment.





PhonoPhi said:


> I am all over modified (wide nozzles) ASX for more than a month now.
> 
> With the wide nozzles everything opens up, ASX are still a bit of bass-head IEMs for me, but they  do have everything to enjoy the music.



Having a hard time getting around to modifying my ASF. Heavy work load and spotty sleeping pattern, lately. Looking forward to eventually modding mine to be able to offer additional feedback

and to enjoy them, of course.

hehe





Gummybuns said:


> I wanted to buy another pair for my collection and I've been considering two.
> 
> The choices are BA10 and AS12.



My recommendation would be to start with the BA10 and pick up the AS12 shortly thereafter.

There is more feedback on the BA10 and much of it is very positive. In addition, they are, likely, out of production. This means that once the current stock dries up the BA10 will be very difficult to obtain.

The AS12 could very likely be out of production as well but you'll probably have more time to acquire a set since they are only now being reconsidered. 

The AS12 (2019 release) is now going through the same two year cycle that the BA10 (2018 release) went through. The BA10 was overlooked by many for innumerable reasons but it is now being recognized for what it's been from day one, a great all-BA set at a bargain basement price. In the coming months I expect history to repeat itself with the AS12. As more feedback comes in the current stock will be depleted until it's gone.

In the meantime, be aware that the AS12 and BA10 sound completely different. Their presentations are not even close to sounding the same. That being said, they are both excellent in-ears at unapologetic but nevertheless affordable prices.

Lastly, both deserve upgrade cables. You can pass on the upgrade cable until you determine how well the BA10 or AS12 fits you but once you know it fits you'll definitely want a better cable, without question.





PhonoPhi said:


> If AS10 warmth is to be build upon with great bass and good mids - AS12 will work nicely; the BA bass is the best out there! (and I do have some Knowles and Sonions to compare).
> 
> The BA10 shells are very nicely built, a real masterpiece (minus the fit considerations).
> 
> (I can only agree that AS12 are better than AS16, if treble is not much of a factor. AS12 do feature very potent treble BAs but they are heavily dampened, so are the higher overtones. Undampened, AS12 are a treble beast; customization of dampening offers great opportunities, in my opinion).



The AS12 treble modification is another modding project on my to do list (Tin T1-cable, KB06-resolder, ZS1/ZS2-nozzles & crossovers if possible, ASF-nozzles/filters, AS12-nozzles/filters & DQ6-nozzles. I also have a handful of old skool fixed-cable KZ's that I'd like to recable with better 8 core cables).

Typically, when I have an hour or two I just want to veg out and enjoy my music but I'll get to modding, at some point.


----------



## BubisUK (Jan 21, 2021)

Black KZ ASX is 14.95£ on amazon uk at the moment 👍
Edit: Might be some sort of a glitch, too cheap to be true.




Completely random listing


----------



## Nimweth

BubisUK said:


> Black KZ ASX is 14.95£ on amazon uk at the moment 👍
> Edit: Might be some sort of a glitch, too cheap to be true.
> 
> Completely random listing


Not too good to be true. Just ordered!


BubisUK said:


> Black KZ ASX is 14.95£ on amazon uk at the moment 👍
> Edit: Might be some sort of a glitch, too cheap to be true.
> 
> Completely random listing
> Double post


----------



## Nimweth

It is too good to be true. It's batman headphones Cancelled thank goodness!


----------



## Nimweth (Jan 21, 2021)

ASX on Amazon: when I checked my order the picture of the ASX had changed to a picture of some ghastly yellow "Batman" headphones. If you scroll down to the product description you will see it is nothing to do with the ASX but is a Bluetooth Headphone. Do not order!!!


----------



## Sebulr

I managed to buy a kz zsx for £33 on amazon last year, I snapped em up because all the other colours were £50. They are my favourite sounding kz. They look a bit crap though, my glare blue zs10 pros look great though. The zsx have better treble. I was quite surprised when they turned up as advertised.


----------



## B9Scrambler

New school KZ, old school equipment. Love the DQ6. Such a well-rounded performer. Especially enjoy the punchy, tight low end which I wish the ZAX had.

​


----------



## Slater

jeromeaparis said:


> We know that AS10 & BA10 have the same drivers, they should sound very close.



I wish that was true, but unfortunately it is not.

I can take the same driver (say, the MH750 driver) amd make it sound 5 totally different ways in 5 different earphones.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Too short and incomplete to call a real review, but here are some extended impressions of the DQ6. It's mostly pretty pictures :3

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-dq6.24918/reviews#item-review-25173


----------



## moisespr123

I'm giving a listen again to my KZ ZS7 (My first KZ!) with the AZLA SednaEarFitLight and the sound has vastly improved in them! The bass is no longer dominant, mids and instruments are more present, has a wider soundstage and the treble is not that dark, while vocals are clearer too.


----------



## B9Scrambler

moisespr123 said:


> I'm giving a listen again to my KZ ZS7 (My first KZ!) with the AZLA SednaEarFitLight and the sound has vastly improved in them! The bass is no longer dominant, mids and instruments are more present, has a wider soundstage and the treble is not that dark, while vocals are clearer too.



ZS7 is fantastic! Haven't used mine much  Will need to pull it out for a session this weekend.


----------



## DynamicEars

B9Scrambler said:


> Too short and incomplete to call a real review, but here are some extended impressions of the DQ6. It's mostly pretty pictures :3
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-dq6.24918/reviews#item-review-25173



love your review and pics as always. Do you have KZ Z1 to be compared with DQ6 low end? I always love Z1's deep and punchy bass, dare to say best KZ bass ever, even to compete at $100-200 range. Are they really the same XUN driver?
I passed lot of great IEM but this DQ6 really intriguing since I love my Z1 despite being "bad" as TWS


----------



## B9Scrambler

DynamicEars said:


> love your review and pics as always. Do you have KZ Z1 to be compared with DQ6 low end? I always love Z1's deep and punchy bass, dare to say best KZ bass ever, even to compete at $100-200 range. Are they really the same XUN driver?
> I passed lot of great IEM but this DQ6 really intriguing since I love my Z1 despite being "bad" as TWS



I only have the S2. Have never used the Z1 and really don't know anything about it, sorry. Bass quality is quite good on the DQ6 though. Much tighter than the significantly more expensive ZAX imo.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received this iem today and first listening impression is good. Definitely has that kz sound which I like. The treble is a little bit thin and can be quite piercing for people who are sensitive on treble. For me, no sibilance at all. Mid is a bit recessed especially if compared to kz latest offerings, maybe on par with kz zs7. The bass is fast, precise and have enough body despite being BA driver.


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 22, 2021)

Wow the bass in this BA10 is amazing, very addicting. Paired it with AZLA Xelastec tips, no discomfort where the edge of the body touching my ears.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 22, 2021)

B9Scrambler said:


> Too short and incomplete to call a real review, but here are some extended impressions of the DQ6. It's mostly pretty pictures :3
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-dq6.24918/reviews#item-review-25173




Definitely see eye to eye on this particular KZ. The DQ6 is truly like an old skool but more mature KZ to me.

My eartip set-up decreases the mid bass about 1db which brings the 7khz FR forward about 1db so I'm hearing precisely what you're  hearing. The 7khz lift isn't much of an issue for me at moderate volume levels, still - I've designated a custom EQ setting for the DQ6 on all Plenues for when I want more volume. Mind you, the custom EQ setting is simply *-1db @ 6.9khz*. That's it.

Using other eartips brings the mid bass back into play leveling out the 7khz rise, for me.

To my ears, the DQ6 tuning is all about delivering a natural & musical presentation with sufficient detail, clarity & air. I think the tuning was thought out and executed quite well.

That conservative mid bass with good sub bass extension keeps the presentation clean enough so I can go from classical to metal to EDM without concern.



Spoiler










Keeps me wondering what $400 gets you with the Unique Melody 3DT.

The DQ6 is a revelation considering its sub-$30 price bracket and my getting backup sets was definitely the right call. I'm an unapologetic fan of the DQ6.

Thanks for the feedback.

Great job, KZ!

Bring us more DD goodness. We like it.


----------



## slex

Alpha Whale said:


> Definitely see eye to eye on this particular KZ. The DQ6 is truly like an old skool but more mature KZ to me.
> 
> My eartip set-up decreases the mid bass about 1db which brings the 7khz FR forward about 1db so I'm hearing precisely what you're  hearing. The 7khz lift isn't much of an issue for me at moderate volume levels, still - I've designated a custom EQ setting for the DQ6 on all Plenues for when I want more volume. Mind you, the custom EQ setting is simply *-1db @ 6.9khz*. That's it.
> 
> ...



Kept me wondering at QDC Dmagic too😊


----------



## RCracer777

After a long time of reading up on IEM's I've decided to get a BA10 as my first all BA IEM.
Now I'm just waiting until Shenzhen Audio puts the DQ6 on amazon... Linsoul is quite the rip off ATM


----------



## voicemaster

RCracer777 said:


> After a long time of reading up on IEM's I've decided to get a BA10 as my first all BA IEM.
> Now I'm just waiting until Shenzhen Audio puts the DQ6 on amazon... Linsoul is quite the rip off ATM


You can order from AliExpress. I ordered my 2nd pair on 01/09/21 and according to usps tracking, it is coming today.


----------



## RCracer777

voicemaster said:


> You can order from AliExpress. I ordered my 2nd pair on 01/09/21 and according to usps tracking, it is coming today.


I know but I prefer Amazon over AliExpress, no hassle with customs and taxes. Might still get it from Ali if it takes too long to appear on Amazon


----------



## SomeGuyDude

RCracer777 said:


> I know but I prefer Amazon over AliExpress, no hassle with customs and taxes. Might still get it from Ali if it takes too long to appear on Amazon



Same. I'll spend an extra couple bucks if it means I'll get it in two days and not deal with all the other crap.


----------



## Pelicampe (Jan 23, 2021)

Just received my QD6, 7days to my door from LuckyLZ store. Nice job.  
Get them at 18.5€ with KZ 8 core oxygen free copper cable. They did an offer at 2€ more for the cable ! A steal.

First, the cable is really thick, like my NiceHCK C16-4 but more rigid. It really give a more better impression than the KZ original in the DQ6's box.

The DQ6 have a great looking to my eyes. Maybe I prefer the grey version instead crystal, glue is visible in this last...
Shell is smallest than CA16, without regarding to glue, finish is good.

First listening is a good surprise, I begun with my A7s for calibrated my earing and after, listen to DQ6s who gives
good details, good stage, lows have body and the typical KZ tuning is less proeminent.

Defaults are : a litlle to much lows for my taste, peaks near 6-8k, femal sound thin, they miss some body in mids.
But A real good surprise, they go to burn stage so lets see how they evolve ! With some good EQing I think I gonna love them.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I admit I always find myself wondering if KZ will ever pull the trigger and make a chi-fi flagship in the $100 area. Like a beefed up ZSX. I know they have the AS16 but that's a bit different IMO. It's just cramming a ton of drivers in there.


----------



## artatgray

Giving it a workout currently and loving it. AutoEq'ed... 📱🎧🎶🤘🏾😎🤘🏾


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

If anyone wants to jump on the DQ6 train, i have a basically new set for trade or sale, just dm me.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

ChristianM said:


> Will this new kbear silver cable good for KZ ZSX? it's pure silver cable and I read that silver cables increases highs/treble and make sound harsh? or should I go for KZ gold silver mixed cable?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001965474886.html?spm=2114.12010611.8148356.3.828f1640XCcDZV
> 
> ...


People say silver cables make the sound brighter because the metal looks brighter. In actuality there's no audible difference with copper unless the wire or soldering are dodgy.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> People say silver cables make the sound brighter because the metal looks brighter. In actuality there's no audible difference with copper unless the wire or soldering are dodgy.



What no I need to buy my 32 core silver XLR cable or else the headphones won't work properly.


----------



## seanwee (Jan 23, 2021)

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> People say silver cables make the sound brighter because the metal looks brighter. In actuality there's no audible difference with copper unless the wire or soldering are dodgy.


If all aspects of the cable are the same except for the material, silver can sound "brighter" than copper since it will have lower resistance.

Problem is, cables vary so much its not possible to do so. Its very much possible to have a copper cable sound brighter than a silver one. Just make sure its thick


----------



## SomeGuyDude

seanwee said:


> If all aspects of the cable are the same except for the material, silver can sound "brighter" than copper since it will have lower resistance.
> 
> Problem is, cables vary so much its not possible to do so. Its very much possible to have a copper cable sound brighter than a silver one. Just make sure its thick



Quit that. Next you're gonna tell me the low pass filters on my DAC don't really make a difference and I can't actually hear 16/48 vs 16/44.1!


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong (Jan 23, 2021)

seanwee said:


> If all aspects of the cable are the same except for the material, silver can sound "brighter" than copper since it will have lower resistance.
> 
> Problem is, cables vary so much its not possible to do so. Its very much possible to have a copper cable sound brighter than a silver one. Just make sure its thick


The just noticeable difference is 1 db at reasonable volumes. 1 db is a power ratio of 1.259. 60cm copper at 1mm cross section has a resistance of .0128 ohms. Silver, .0121. The power ratio between those cables is 1.057.

The difference is not audible.

Buy cables for looks, durability, or comfort. Not sound.

I'll shut up now since this isn't a thread about audibility.


----------



## wopossum

I'm trying to sum it up for myself. So, pretty much we have:
ZAX as a currently best hybrid option from KZ
EDX as the best ultra-budget option with decent sound
BA10 as a bang-for-buck with 4-way crossover and all-BA setup, even though it's not a new IEM
DQ6 as a gift from KZ with their old-school full DD signature that costs just 28$
and.. ASX as "who needs a lesser amount of drivers nowadays, huh?" 

Honestly, I'd like to try all of these, but I think if I will, I will fall into the rabbit hole. Might need to take it slower.


----------



## seanwee

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> The just noticeable difference is 1 db at reasonable volumes. 1 db is a power ratio of 1.259. 60cm copper at 1mm cross section has a resistance of .0128 ohms. Silver, .0121. The power ratio between those cables is 1.057.
> 
> The difference is not audible.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you can help me calculate how much my use case affects things, I'll admit that normally you don't hear differences between cables if you don't look for them. But when I do, I can reliably tell between the cables.

Assuming a standard cable at 120cm, 90-95 dba to an iem (20 ohms 103db@1mw), how much would the difference be?


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

seanwee said:


> Perhaps you can help me calculate how much my use case affects things, I'll admit that normally you don't hear differences between cables if you don't look for them. But when I do, I can reliably tell between the cables.
> 
> Assuming a standard cable at 120cm, 90-95 dba to an iem (20 ohms 103db@1mw), how much would the difference be?


If your IEMs output 90-95 dba I'm not sure you'll be able to hear anything at all for much longer


----------



## chifihead

SomeGuyDude said:


> I admit I always find myself wondering if KZ will ever pull the trigger and make a chi-fi flagship in the $100 area. Like a beefed up ZSX. I know they have the AS16 but that's a bit different IMO. It's just cramming a ton of drivers in there.


But isn't the ZSX also cramming a ton of drivers in there? _Wink wink_



seanwee said:


> If all aspects of the cable are the same except for the material, silver can sound "brighter" than copper since it will have lower resistance.
> 
> Problem is, cables vary so much its not possible to do so. Its very much possible to have a copper cable sound brighter than a silver one. Just make sure its thick


Hang on.. Does that mean impedance adapters would make the sound darker? 



wopossum said:


> I'm trying to sum it up for myself. So, pretty much we have:
> ZAX as a currently best hybrid option from KZ
> EDX as the best ultra-budget option with decent sound
> BA10 as a bang-for-buck with 4-way crossover and all-BA setup, even though it's not a new IEM
> ...


I would really advise people to take it slower above $50. At that price level or above, there are better options than KZ/CCA, imho.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 24, 2021)

seanwee said:


> Perhaps you can help me calculate how much my use case affects things, I'll admit that normally you don't hear differences between cables if you don't look for them. But when I do, I can reliably tell between the cables.
> 
> Assuming a standard cable at 120cm, 90-95 dba to an iem (20 ohms 103db@1mw), how much would the difference be?


Not adding the impedance of the source, and going for the values of 92 and 93 "dba" (quite a significant difference notwithstanding the actual levels), the power is correspondingly 0.1 mW and ca. 0.08 mW (1.259 ratio as above).
(20+x)/20 = 1.259, x=0.259*20 
That is 5-Ohm difference (!) in the cable impedance gives the difference of 1 dB!

20 Ohm is a good design.
The reason that still much less impedance difference in cables  can be heard is that the IEM impedance values are cited at some single frequency, typically 1 kHz, while the impedance is strongly frequency-dependent (reactive coils) and go much lower at the resonance frequencies of the drivers. 
Also at resonances the drivers are "power hungry" making the source matter.

So with many drivers, not just some general signal attenuation but significant tonal changes can be heard.

A practical rule again is 1/8, that becomes 1/16 for typical impedance values of single wires commonly cited for the IEM cables.
That is if the impedance value of the cable is 1/16 or less of that of  the IEM, it can hardly matter.

For multi-BAs, like AS10 with their unique crossover (KZ just started to learn), perhaps 1/24 

Going below 0.5 Ohm for cited cable values typically removes any cable dependence, while older KZ/TRN stock cables could easily measure above 1.5 Ohm.

P. S. For IEMs, like AS10, impedance adapters indeed can make sound "darker" and muddy.


----------



## PhonoPhi

chifihead said:


> ...
> I would really advise people to take it slower above $50. At that price level or above, there are better options than KZ/CCA, imho.


We will gladly take your expert advise if you share your wisdom and experience.
Please tell us (me) what are the better options than ZAX for hybrids and BA10/AS12 for all-BAs "above $50" (keeping in mind  also that currently no KZ/CCA are above $80, including ASX (sales/coupons)).


----------



## r31ya (Jan 24, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> We will gladly take your expert advise if you share your wisdom and experience.
> Please tell us (me) what are the better options than ZAX for hybrids and BA10/AS12 for all-BAs "above $50" (keeping in mind  also that currently no KZ/CCA are above $80, including ASX (sales/coupons)).



KZ is great. I've used and owned ZS5 (broken in an accident), ZSN(gave it to my sister), DQ6 (gave it to my brother, tough i kinda regret it), and currently going to buy CCA CST and endlessly pondering whether i should buy ZS10 Pro.

But if you want to spend around KZ ZAX (priced 900k in my place) money or a bit more, TFZ King series is very nice 1 DD, V shaped, great bass with proper texturing (Exclusive King 1200k, the old king I is 950k but a bit hard to find) . Or spend a bit more and get the darling Moondrop Starfield for Harman sig (used to be 1300k) . Or the safer Ibasso IT00 (950k).
If you want hybrids, Shozy 1.1 (1000K) or spend a bit more on Tri Starsea (1500K).
Surely there are plenty others within these range, but these are the one in my radar (want list really)

Yes these are above the $50 range or even the $80. In which personally, you already saved $80, i would advice you to save a bit more to get one of the above really.
A friend once advice me to saved up to buy a proper upgrade instead than spending it for endlessly side grading or getting mild upgrade

Yeah, KZ has pretty big emphasis on "its good but its lacking a bit in here" that keeps you wanting to buy more. Can't fault that, as i personally while didn't make much in income but slowly saved for IEMs and related stuff for the past 3 years.


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## unifutomaki (Jan 24, 2021)

The main problem with the "just save up a bit more" argument is that it is an infinite regress. Once you've saved up for the Starfield, why not save up that bit more for the Tri i3? And once you've saved up for the Tri i3, why not save up some more for the LZ A7? And you can keep going, and going, and none of these more expensive sets are going to be perfect either, until you end up with an IER-Z1R.

I'm not massively into the TFZ alternatives either. While my T2G was my first introduction to ChiFi, it's been outclassed in nearly every way since then by similarly priced KZs. TFZ does the same V-shaped, bass emphasised, recessed vocals sound signature on every single one of their models. KZ has a house sound too, sure, but that house sound also costs less than the TFZs do.

I think that what makes the audio hobby enjoyable is not getting to the end-game from the get-go but rather the journey you take to get there and the experiences you have with different sets along the way. If you just want to get one pair of IEMs and be done with it like most people then that's perfectly fine, but then most people would probably enjoy a KZ as well and not need to spend any more, since they wouldn't be comparing it to anything else.


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## r31ya (Jan 24, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> The main problem with the "just save up a bit more" argument is that it is an infinite regress. Once you've saved up for the Starfield, why not save up that bit more for the Tri i3? And once you've saved up for the Tri i3, why not save up some more for the LZ A7? And you can keep going, and going, and none of these more expensive sets are going to be perfect either, until you end up with an IER-Z1R.



Well, depend on financial condition, usually i set up max budget, and collection scaling (1 for each grade) i guess. tough budget wise, it kinda creeps up in price over time.
Right I set up my max audio  budget at 2000K, and i only spend that much if my saving is in good condition and i absolutely need to replace one of my gear.

My current IEMs is ATH-e40 (bought used for 600K, 800K if new, back-up IEM), TFZ King Pro (1600K, main), ATH-m40 (1100K, pc/laptop use) played on BTR5.

Right now i looking for sub 350k beater replacement which used to be DQ6 but i gave it to my brother as he broke his KZ-ZST.
Well, possibly going to buy CCA CST for it, tough i ponder on buying Blon01/03.

I've tried a custom 20.000K IEMs belong to my richer friend which sounds freakin awesome.
but in my current financial condition, i rather saved up for smallish house downpayment for that much of money.
That and backthen i fortunate enough that i have access to pretty good audiostore in my hometown that allows you to audition for IEMs, which allow me to try dozens of sub 1000k chi-fi iems to satisfy my curiosity without the need of buying one.


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## wopossum

unifutomaki said:


> The main problem with the "just save up a bit more" argument is that it is an infinite regress. Once you've saved up for the Starfield, why not save up that bit more for the Tri i3? And once you've saved up for the Tri i3, why not save up some more for the LZ A7? And you can keep going, and going, and none of these more expensive sets are going to be perfect either, until you end up with an IER-Z1R



That's a nice point.


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## Nimweth

unifutomaki said:


> The main problem with the "just save up a bit more" argument is that it is an infinite regress. Once you've saved up for the Starfield, why not save up that bit more for the Tri i3? And once you've saved up for the Tri i3, why not save up some more for the LZ A7? And you can keep going, and going, and none of these more expensive sets are going to be perfect either, until you end up with an IER-Z1R.
> 
> I'm not massively into the TFZ alternatives either. While my T2G was my first introduction to ChiFi, it's been outclassed in nearly every way since then by similarly priced KZs. TFZ does the same V-shaped, bass emphasised, recessed vocals sound signature on every single one of their models. KZ has a house sound too, sure, but that house sound also costs less than the TFZs do.
> 
> I think that what makes the audio hobby enjoyable is not getting to the end-game from the get-go but rather the journey you take to get there and the experiences you have with different sets along the way. If you just want to get one pair of IEMs and be done with it like most people then that's perfectly fine, but then most people would probably enjoy a KZ as well and not need to spend any more, since they wouldn't be comparing it to anything else.


The "end game" is a mirage.


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## seanwee

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> If your IEMs output 90-95 dba I'm not sure you'll be able to hear anything at all for much longer


Yeah I know, you're not the first to say that. To clarify, it's only for a short while when doing comparisons, say 5 minutes at a time. 

Still interested in the numbers if you don't mind


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## SomeGuyDude

Nimweth said:


> The "end game" is a mirage.



It's also an up and down oscillation. 

At one point I had the LCD-3 on a Questyle stack and the Shure se846 and thought I was pretty much done. Now it's Philips X3 and a few chi-fi items with a Fiio BTR5, and I'm likely to climb back up, only to sell it off and go more economical again. 

The only way for endgame to truly exist would be for all headphone development to stop tomorrow and for us to listen to literally everything available. You never know if there's some low-cost gem out there (the ZSX genuinely changed my outlook on everything), or maybe some company will go balls to the wall and make a surprise TOTL that you need to try.


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## voicemaster

Even TOTL still missing something. There is no perfect IEM.


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## seanwee (Jan 24, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> It's also an up and down oscillation.
> 
> At one point I had the LCD-3 on a Questyle stack and the Shure se846 and thought I was pretty much done. Now it's Philips X3 and a few chi-fi items with a Fiio BTR5, and I'm likely to climb back up, only to sell it off and go more economical again.
> 
> The only way for endgame to truly exist would be for all headphone development to stop tomorrow and for us to listen to literally everything available. You never know if there's some low-cost gem out there (the ZSX genuinely changed my outlook on everything), or maybe some company will go balls to the wall and make a surprise TOTL that you need to try.


Simply put, there are many tunings that may sound better at certain tracks. Price has nothing to do with tuning.

I have heard many many kilobuck iems/headphones that are just mediocre and even bad sounding.

The best transducer tech can't save you from bad tuning



voicemaster said:


> Even TOTL still missing something. There is no perfect IEM.


And that is why people enjoy chi-fi. You get to enjoy many signatures at a very reasonable price.


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## SomeGuyDude

seanwee said:


> Simply put, there are many tunings that may sound better at certain tracks. Price has nothing to do with tuning.
> 
> I have heard many many kilobuck iems/headphones that are just mediocre and even bad sounding.
> 
> The best transducer tech can't save you from bad tuning



I've listened to so many summit-fi products that just left me going "yeah that's okay I guess" compared to cheapies that tickled my ears perfectly. For all the talk everyone has about imaging/soundstage/etc, the tuning really is 90% of the fight.


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## Pelicampe

Tuning can be corrected by equalization.

Details no, micro-details no, stage no, attack / speed no, decay no. All technicities can't be corrected, it's some pyshicals caracterisctics of drivers.

But if you don't like tuning, get a good EQ and kill this hugly 8k peak, give more weight to mids, all what you want! ... Ok if under 30hz and after 10khz drivers is out of limits you don't do anything, but between you build your tuning.

I now prefer a flater tuning like my hifi system. And when a track sound bad I don't blam my IEMs but know that the sound engineer wanted to record like that (or was able ...)


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## ScrofulousBinturong

Nimweth said:


> The "end game" is a mirage.


This one? 

https://shop.musicteck.com/products/um-mirage?variant=18326665199678


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## ScrofulousBinturong

seanwee said:


> Yeah I know, you're not the first to say that. To clarify, it's only for a short while when doing comparisons, say 5 minutes at a time.
> 
> Still interested in the numbers if you don't mind


I believe these are correct:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16128046


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## ScrofulousBinturong

Pelicampe said:


> I now prefer a flater tuning like my hifi system. And when a track sound bad I don't blam my IEMs but know that the sound engineer wanted to record like that (or was able ...)


That's only true to the extent your sound engineer and mastering people used equipment with a similar DR and FR as yours.

Compare first-issue CDs from the 1980s and reissues of the same recordings for example.

I had a friend in HS who had kind of a crappy system with a graphic eq all zeroed out who insisted that was the way the artist intended. I doubted that very much considering it all sounded cardboardy and lifeless.


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## B9Scrambler (Jan 24, 2021)

Some thoughts on the ZST X. While a great update to the original, there are two similarly priced models in their lineup that overshadow it.

Head-fi / The Contraptionist


​


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## SomeGuyDude

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> That's only true to the extent your sound engineer and mastering people used equipment with a similar DR and FR as yours.
> 
> Compare first-issue CDs from the 1980s and reissues of the same recordings for example.
> 
> I had a friend in HS who had kind of a crappy system with a graphic eq all zeroed out who insisted that was the way the artist intended. I doubted that very much considering it all sounded cardboardy and lifeless.



And TBH I don't care what the engineer and mastering people wanted it to sound like. I care what I wanted it to sound like. People get way too worried about what it's "supposed" to sound like.


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## ScrofulousBinturong

SomeGuyDude said:


> And TBH I don't care what the engineer and mastering people wanted it to sound like. I care what I wanted it to sound like. People get way too worried about what it's "supposed" to sound like.


Exactly right. It has to sound good to you.


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## nraymond

SomeGuyDude said:


> And TBH I don't care what the engineer and mastering people wanted it to sound like. I care what I wanted it to sound like. People get way too worried about what it's "supposed" to sound like.



Do you enjoy live music as is? Or do you mic it and put it through an EQ and listen to it on earphones so you can hear it the way you want to?


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## voicemaster

You think live music through a PA speakers doesn't have EQ on it? I do live mixing and I EQed the input the way I wanted to sound. Low cut on vocal is a pretty standard, put on some reverb is already altering the sound. Every sound engineer have their own preferences on how they want their "live" sounded.


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## Pelicampe

So if you like to hear music according to your tastes, we come back to the 1st part of my post.  
tuning can be set on demand with an equalizer. unlike other technical characteristics which are fixed.


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## unifutomaki (Jan 25, 2021)

It's easy enough to tell when a quality driver is putting out the sound irrespective of the tuning. I like my music to sound immersive, interesting, and subjectively "good", which I fully admit is emotionally-driven and has nothing to do with how the recording engineer wanted things to sound. That means I'm typically more concerned with technicalities rather than going for the most neutral of neutral-ish transducers. Some of my favourite music (read: weeb music) will cause the seasoned audiophile to recoil in horror at how basic its mastering is relative to classical or jazz recordings, but I can't stand classical or jazz (ok I do like Steely Dan, but they're an exception).

Besides, on the point of live music, we all know that the best and most spendy tens-of-thousands kilobuck speaker system will still not reproduce live music exactly the way it was. It can get _close_, sure, but close isn't quite the same as nailing it. So I think worrying about whether IEMs can reproduce live music as if one were there is a bit of a fool's errand.


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## seanwee

unifutomaki said:


> It's easy enough to tell when a quality driver is putting out the sound irrespective of the tuning.


Nah, without eq or cypher cables the Audeze isines and LCD-i sound far worse than decent chi-fi iems even with their ultra low distortion planar drivers. And thats just one of many high end iems with quality drivers that sound bad.


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## Alpha Whale (Jan 25, 2021)

Pelicampe said:


> Just received my QD6.



That copper cable on the right is the cool cable I made mention of earlier.
As soon as those show up on Amazon I'll be ordering half a dozen or so.

Very cool, KZ.

Very cool.





Nimweth said:


> The "end game" is a mirage.



For the most part, I agree. Again, for the most part.

Being fortunate enough to have purchased and/or sampled a couple hundred in-ears I can state with certainty precisely what I *need* from an *all-around *in-ear and precisely what I *want* from a more *fun-sounding* in-ear.

Always mindful of KZ's foibles and successes, I will be forever grateful to companies like KZ for affording me the opportunity to discover my very own preferences regarding sound signature.

I've monitored this particular thread with great interest for several years.  While doing so I've also monitored the mid-Fi and summit-Fi threads.

It may or may not be common knowledge that the concerns and misgivings found within the realm of budget-Fi gear are echoed throughout the realms regarding mid-Fi and summit-Fi gear.



Spoiler



*Audiosense T800 @ $300*
"_The Audiosense T800 is a very source picky IEM in view of the very low 9.2 ohm impedance, and it pairs well with sources with < 1 ohm output impedance (ideally as close to zero as possible is better). The Audiosense T800’s frequency response gets skewed with inappropriate source pairing especially if the source output impedance is too high."_

*Westone W30 @ $400*
_Timbre is worse on the Westone W30 and notes lack an edge definition/bite on the Westone W30. _

*TRI I3 @ $169*
_It is very smooth and non fatiguing, but has an occasional 3 kHz spike that rears its ugly head during poorly recorded material or at louder volumes (Fletcher Munson curve).

The TRI I3 is much more power hungry due to the planars in the mids requiring some juice, and it needs amping to perform optimally. Isolation is also poorer on the TRI I3.

The TRI I3 has poorer details, less instrument separation, poorer imaging and clarity even when amped."_

*baskingshark on the Westone W30, Tri I3 & Audiosense T800 in his LZ A7 review*

__________________________________

_It has a palpable airiness to it, which neither the LX ($3,300 Empire Ears Legend X) or Z1R ($1,700 Sony) has (Z1R does kind of have it, but it's silibant)."_

*Medikill on his review of the CA Andromeda *
_______________________________


_"The legend X performs well throughout most of the frequency range, however it suffers from lack of tightness and control in the bass."_

*Andrew Park @


on the $2,300 Empire Ears Legend X 
(IEM shootout: 64 Audio Tia Trió vs Empire Ears Legend X)*

_______________________________________

_"One criticism of the build is the short nozzle and the fact that Empire Ears does not provide a lip on the end of the nozzle to help hold an ear tip in place."_

*Subguy812 on the $2,300 Empire Ears Legend X   
_________________________*

_"Bogdan Belonozhko (CEO) informed me that the old version of their cable kept breaking at the plastic 2 pin area so 64 Audio re-engineered the connector to be a fiberglass filled resin."_

*Ike1985 on the 64 Audio A18 Tzar @ Head-Fi*



Same complaints.
Same concerns.

It's also worth noting how keyboard trolls seek for easy targets in budget-Fi brands to  spew obscenities at them for "shoving drivers" into an IEM (KZ AS16, KZ ASX, CCA CS16, CCA CA16, etc.) but those brave souls make no mention of the 7 drivers fitted into the TOTL Empire Ears Legend X or the 9 drivers fitted into the TOTL 64 Audio A18 Tzar.

Once the trolls and mockingbirds expose themselves you'll know who they are.
(_akin to the bullies who pushed and belittled autistic children in the neighborhood_).
Give those folks enough rope and they'll eventually hang themselves with it.

To get back on topic it is clear that no one person will ever hear every IEM ever released. If that weren't enough, new transducer technologies are being developed and the end result is that we will see even more in-ears enter the marketplace at varying price levels.

Even so, the $2,300 *Empire Ears Legend X* is an "endgame" hybrid IEM for some folks.
The $2,300 *64 Audio Tia Trió* is an "endgame" hybrid IEM for other folks and
the $1,700 *Sony IER Z1R* is an "endgame" IEM for yet another group of folks.

What's my point?

As far as "endgame" for me, I'd just like KZ to release an AS12 Pro with their "s" brand balanced armatures. In theory that would do it for me.

Maybe.

I suppose a single DD or multi-DD release with the AS12 presentation could, in theory, do it for me as well.

or maybe....

LOL, I see your point.

Still, with all of that said, one can spend obscene amounts of money on IEMs and/or DAPs but I can assure you that not one of the folks purchasing TOTL gear is having any more fun than we are. Long live our ever-improving budget-Fi gear.










B9Scrambler said:


> Some thoughts on the ZST X. While a great update to the original, there are two similarly priced models in their lineup that overshadow it.
> 
> Head-fi / The Contraptionist
> 
> ​



Oddly enough, I determined months ago to forego this model. After reading your review it seems that the ZST-X may have more in common with the KZ ES3 which I still enioy. The ES3 itself was a beefier and slightly warmer ZST that was more entertaining to my ears. Given your description I'll have to pick up at least one ZST-X if it means it is a more refined ES3 presentation, which is what the description sounds like.



Spoiler



No over shooting on the db levels.





Higher frequencies better balanced with lower frequencies on ZST-X.








As a side note, thanks for pointing out that the new 4 core silver cables are an improvement over the previous tangly brown braided cable. I should have paid more attention to the new cables that were packaged with my DQ6 and ASF. I overlooked them because I was miffed that the seller sent me a set *with mic* instead of *without mic* like I ordered so I cast them aside in disgust.

The new cables are an improvement and I must give credit where credit is due.

Thanks for the feedback.

Looking forward to the improvements we'll see in 2021 in the budget-Fi segment.


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## unifutomaki

seanwee said:


> Nah, without eq or cypher cables the Audeze isines and LCD-i sound far worse than decent chi-fi iems even with their ultra low distortion planar drivers. And thats just one of many high end iems with quality drivers that sound bad.



I mean, it's Audeze, that's the issue there


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## SomeGuyDude

If I was rolling my eyes any harder at the Audeze hate I'd be looking out the back of my own goddamn head.


----------



## unifutomaki

I'm sure there's no shortage of adoration for that company elsewhere on this forum, one need not insist on it here


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## SomeGuyDude

unifutomaki said:


> I'm sure there's no shortage of adoration for that company elsewhere on this forum, one need not insist on it here



And perhaps one need not insist on blockheaded hate for them either, since this is not the thread for it.


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## B9Scrambler

Little comparo of measurements from a few of their recent models. They've got a specific sound in mind it seems. DQ6 is the best of the bunch imo.


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## SomeGuyDude

I don't understand KZ's business model. They release ten thousand IEMs that all have remarkably similar sigs. When I hopped on board back when the ZS5 was new and it was kind of a meme for being an Andromeda clone it seemed like they were keeping things at least somewhat organized. I can't imagine how one would shop for something from them now.


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## wopossum

B9Scrambler said:


> They've got a specific sound in mind it seems. DQ6 is the best of the bunch imo.




Best because of rolled off bass and slightly more smoothed highs over 8k?


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## B9Scrambler (Jan 25, 2021)

wopossum said:


> Best because of rolled off bass and slightly more smoothed highs over 8k?



Least v-shaped, best timbre. Bass isn't rolled off on any of them 

Edit: And its looks are the best of the bunch, lol


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## snowmind (Jan 25, 2021)

How much can a pure copper cable improve the sound in terms of timbre? For example, tonight I am going to pair a Nicehck 16 cores in EDX, I just want to have a brief spoiler of what to expect.


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## PhonoPhi (Jan 25, 2021)

snowmind said:


> How much can a pure copper cable improve the sound in terms of timbre? For example, tonight I am going to pair a Nicehck 16 cores in EDX, I just want to have a brief spoiler of what to expect.


You'll experience all the miracles (as long as you believe in them).

Seriously, with the EDX being a single driver with the impedance of 23 Ohm, designed for simple sources - not much based on objective perception.

On a prevailing myth of pure copper vs plated - with PVC insulation used, the wires need to be plated.
So then there is a copper-coloured insulation covering the plated wires for "copper", while for "spc" - the insulation is either transparent or gray.

No single measurements (despite all the recent sensitive rigs) are out there showing any difference between pure copper and spc (and pure silver for that matter).

So it is all about the power of imagination! Do train yours and enjoy this hobby at the fullest


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## Pelicampe

PhonoPhi said:


> You'll experience all the miracles (as long as you believe in them).
> 
> So it is all about the power of imagination! Do train yours and enjoy this hobby at the fullest



The time to disconnect cable from source, disconnect each IEMs from cable, reconnect them to new cable, reconnect to source, take them to your ears, hit "play" and your brain give to you what you want to listen. 



After +50 hours of burning, I take a little tour with my news *DQ6.*
Really like what they capable to do. Sound really soft, no aggressivity, detailled, warm.
I think their lows a little too boosted scramble the technicals capacities, clarity of this good pair !

Tomorow I'll take measurement with REW, first to compare before and after burning, if anything is visible. Then make an EQing according to these. 

Impressed !


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## SomeGuyDude

nraymond said:


> Do you enjoy live music as is? Or do you mic it and put it through an EQ and listen to it on earphones so you can hear it the way you want to?



Personally I channel everything through an elaborate system of acoustic chambers that is then sent off to a hand-selected team of recording engineers who know what I like, and then the result is individually pressed onto vinyl records which are delivered to me with a Toblerone. I call them the Stop Being a Pedantic Twat Team.


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## seanwee

SomeGuyDude said:


> If I was rolling my eyes any harder at the Audeze hate I'd be looking out the back of my own goddamn head.


Well it depends on what product line. Their headphones get a lot of love.



SomeGuyDude said:


> And perhaps one need not insist on blockheaded hate for them either, since this is not the thread for it.


Yeah, senseless hate is just, senseless. A company can have good and bad products at the same time, KZ is the epitomy of that. Audeze's LCD-XC and LCD4 headphones are great


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## jamess71

Hey guys, I've been out of the hobby for quite a few years now. I've had plenty of over ear headphones and amps in the past. I'm thinking I want to get back into it a bit and start with some lower cost IEMs. This thread has me intrigued. What would you guys recommend I start with? I'm not of fan of treble. I prefer warmer over bright all the time. Love some fast detailed bass. I've been looking on Amazon and there are just so many choices.... Thanks


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## SomeGuyDude

ZSX all the way. It does have some of that KZ sharp treble but it's so sweet in the low end that it's worth it.


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## nraymond (Jan 25, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> Personally I channel everything through an elaborate system of acoustic chambers that is then sent off to a hand-selected team of recording engineers who know what I like, and then the result is individually pressed onto vinyl records which are delivered to me with a Toblerone. I call them the Stop Being a Pedantic Twat Team.



I’m guessing by your vernacular that you are British and since I can’t infer tone from plain text I doubly have no idea how serious or offended you were. I meant no harm in my question and did not mean to be pedantic, but was curious from your comment about how far your not caring about what the production people intended extended. All things in balance I say, but that’s just my humble opinion. And people are free to do as they please. I’m here in this community writing to you and others so I can understand other people’s viewpoints, not just to express my own. Apologies if I offended.


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## jamess71

Thank you SomeGuyDude, ZSX looks like a good choice. I'm looking at several different brands of them on Amazon. Does it matter what brand? I'm seeing so many. Linsoul, KZ, ****, Kinboofi...... Also you have me a bit scared when you mention sharp treble.


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## unifutomaki

nraymond said:


> I’m guessing by your vernacular that you are British and since I can’t infer tone from plain text I doubly have no idea how serious or offended you were. I meant no harm in my question and did not mean to be pedantic, but was curious from your comment about how far your not caring about what the production people intended extended. All things in balance I say, but that’s just my humble opinion. And people are free to do as they please. I’m here in this community writing to you and others so I can understand other people’s viewpoints, not just to express my own. Apologies if I offended.



No offense taken whatsoever. In other words, I don't think the problem is with you. Between this and the Audeze shareholder type response, he probably has something going on in his life that we are not privy to that might explain his tone.


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## baskingshark

snowmind said:


> How much can a pure copper cable improve the sound in terms of timbre? For example, tonight I am going to pair a Nicehck 16 cores in EDX, I just want to have a brief spoiler of what to expect.



I would define *timbral accuracy* as what lets us tell apart a musical instrument or voice, even when they are hitting the same note at the same fundamental pitch and loudness. In other words, does a violin sound like a real life violin on this earbud/IEM? 

I don't think a cable can really make a bad timbre of an instrument sound like legit goodness in the blink of an eye unfortunately. If in a particular IEM, it doesn't sound like a violin, no amount of EQ or cable changes or source changes or eartip changes is gonna make it better.

As for whether cables can change other aspects like tonally (eg boost bass/treble) or increases technicalities like soundstage and details, that's a big can of worms that will be endlessly debated among the cable believers and cable skeptics, we shall leave this discussion for another day so as not to derail this thread.


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## wopossum (Jan 25, 2021)

jamess71 said:


> Thank you SomeGuyDude, ZSX looks like a good choice. I'm looking at several different brands of them on Amazon. Does it matter what brand? I'm seeing so many. Linsoul, KZ, ****, Kinboofi...... Also you have me a bit scared when you mention sharp treble.



I don't agree about ZSX. They will be too harsh because they're bright. Look at CCA CA16, check a review on youtube from "Vortex Reviews" about these. They're much warmer than TRN VX and still warmer than ZAX which makes them better for you than ZSX. ZSX is just a predecessor of ZAX.

As for which store you would get them from - doesn't really matter as far as it has some positive reviews, Linsoul is the most "tested" one.

I'd also get foam tips such as Comply tips or if you don't like foam then Spintips(CP800?).


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## jamess71

Thank you wopossum. I will do more research tomorrow on all of these.


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## voicemaster

jamess71 said:


> Thank you wopossum. I will do more research tomorrow on all of these.


Try BA10.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

snowmind said:


> How much can a pure copper cable improve the sound in terms of timbre? For example, tonight I am going to pair a Nicehck 16 cores in EDX, I just want to have a brief spoiler of what to expect.


It can't and it doesn't.


----------



## Pelicampe

ZAX seems to be an upgrade of ZSX.

CA16 give good bass and details without piercings highs, lack somethings in mids.

ASF ASX are a gamble, maybe you will like them, maybe not. Who know...   

BA10 actualy have his hype moment but it's seem justified.

QD6 are news lows cost multi DD with good bass, details and not too much highs, look at them.


----------



## tgx78 (Jan 26, 2021)

BA10 just came in.

I was bit worried about the channel imbalance after looking at Crinacle’s sample, but my unit seems to be well matched.




Azla Xelastec is giving me a 5kHz middle finger.




BA10 vs DT100

will give it a listen tomorrow and provide some initial impression.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

SomeGuyDude said:


> Personally I channel everything through an elaborate system of acoustic chambers that is then sent off to a hand-selected team of recording engineers who know what I like, and then the result is individually pressed onto vinyl records which are delivered to me with a Toblerone. I call them the Stop Being a Pedantic Twat Team.


Rumor has it the Smabat brand was launched in reaction to people like you--Stop Making Audiophiles Buy A Toblerone.





jamess71 said:


> Thank you SomeGuyDude, ZSX looks like a good choice. I'm looking at several different brands of them on Amazon. Does it matter what brand? I'm seeing so many. Linsoul, KZ, ****, Kinboofi...... Also you have me a bit scared when you mention sharp treble.


What's your budget and what music do you like?


----------



## DynamicEars

tgx78 said:


> BA10 just came in.
> 
> I was bit worried about the channel imbalance after looking at Crinacle’s sample, but my unit seems to be well matched.
> 
> ...



put sponge on their nozzle and they are become smooth without peaks but still have details with good transients, that 2.5khz, 4khz and 5.5khz peaks will smoothen down but still with good details. maybe not so perfect 7khz boost but I see they have good  potential


----------



## tgx78

DynamicEars said:


> put sponge on their nozzle and they are become smooth without peaks but still have details with good transients, that 2.5khz, 4khz and 5.5khz peaks will smoothen down but still with good details. maybe not so perfect 7khz boost but I see they have good  potential



I should receive those sponge foams next month. I will try them on BA10.


----------



## DynamicEars

unifutomaki said:


> The main problem with the "just save up a bit more" argument is that it is an infinite regress. Once you've saved up for the Starfield, why not save up that bit more for the Tri i3? And once you've saved up for the Tri i3, why not save up some more for the LZ A7? And you can keep going, and going, and none of these more expensive sets are going to be perfect either, until you end up with an IER-Z1R.
> 
> I'm not massively into the TFZ alternatives either. While my T2G was my first introduction to ChiFi, it's been outclassed in nearly every way since then by similarly priced KZs. TFZ does the same V-shaped, bass emphasised, recessed vocals sound signature on every single one of their models. KZ has a house sound too, sure, but that house sound also costs less than the TFZs do.
> 
> I think that what makes the audio hobby enjoyable is not getting to the end-game from the get-go but rather the journey you take to get there and the experiences you have with different sets along the way. If you just want to get one pair of IEMs and be done with it like most people then that's perfectly fine, but then most people would probably enjoy a KZ as well and not need to spend any more, since they wouldn't be comparing it to anything else.





wopossum said:


> That's a nice point.





Nimweth said:


> The "end game" is a mirage.




How if someone still reach the KZ Z1 more than the Dream Z1R?



*note Z1 is modified with sponge damper like Z1R, and "retune" with EQ since they are TWS.


----------



## trumpethead

Aliexpress is refusing to refund me for my BA10 that was stolen, Or never put in the package. That does it for me.. They somehow want me to PROVE that it was stolen.. What more proof do they need besides a ripped up package that was retaped with only one item in the package.. I can no longer trust AE to stand behind their customers and provide fair judgement.. I've got one more pair of DQ6 on the way but that's it for me.. They will never get another opportunity to steal my money...


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 26, 2021)

trumpethead said:


> Aliexpress is refusing to refund me for my BA10 that was stolen, Or never put in the package. That does it for me.. They somehow want me to PROVE that it was stolen.. What more proof do they need besides a ripped up package that was retaped with only one item in the package.. I can no longer trust AE to stand behind their customers and provide fair judgement.. I've got one more pair of DQ6 on the way but that's it for me.. They will never get another opportunity to steal my money...


You can get kz ba10 on amazon for about the same price in AliExpress. It is amazon prime too so 2 days shipping with way less risk and ease of mind for refund.
I bought 2 of mine from Amazon for $47 each.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

voicemaster said:


> You can get kz ba10 on amazon for about the same price in AliExpress. It is amazon prime too so 2 days shipping with way less risk and ease of mind for refund.
> I bought 2 of mine from Amazon for $47 each.



No joke, I won't buy any product from AE even if it's a little more expensive on Amazon. Ten bucks is worth the faster shipping and painless return policy.


----------



## voicemaster

SomeGuyDude said:


> No joke, I won't buy any product from AE even if it's a little more expensive on Amazon. Ten bucks is worth the faster shipping and painless return policy.


I usually only buy the 2nd pair after buying from amazon if I like the product. Never had any problem with AE yet (knock on wood).


----------



## jamess71

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Rumor has it the Smabat brand was launched in reaction to people like you--Stop Making Audiophiles Buy A Toblerone.
> What's your budget and what music do you like?


Hi ScrofulousBinturong, My budget is flexible, for these I guess around $60. I was going to just get the new galaxy buds to go with my S20 FE but decided to hop on HeadFi and here I am again. Always looking for more for less. As for what music I listen to it's all over the place. From electronic, to hardcore metal, to rap, to rock, etc etc. so nothing specific really. Thanks


----------



## Tonymac136 (Jan 26, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> No joke, I won't buy any product from AE even if it's a little more expensive on Amazon. Ten bucks is worth the faster shipping and painless return policy.



I do use Ali, and I've only had 2 issues. It's cheaper enough than Amazon for me to treat it as "Caveat Emptor", to be honest I can't be bothered to go through the rigmarole of sending stuff back to China. What I've saved has paid for the 2 bad pairs I've received. I won't buy LZ because of the issues, but I'm content to keep using Ali.

Edit : Also, I don't like to give Besos any more of my hard earned than I have to, especially with the way his workers are treated here in the UK.


----------



## trumpethead (Jan 26, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> You can get kz ba10 on amazon for about the same price in AliExpress. It is amazon prime too so 2 days shipping with way less risk and ease of mind for refund.
> I bought 2 of mine from Amazon for $47 each.


Yes, I bought one from Amazon last week 47 bucks 2 day delivery... .I wish they were available before I ordered the first from AE.. Think I'm gonna jus slow down on buying and wait for stuff to be available on Amazon or maybe Penon... Like you said Peace of Mind....


----------



## skreddy

So the only KZs I have are the ZS10 Pro and they have this metallic timbre which I hate and the mids are too recessed, there is no meat in electric guitars. I was thinking about trying the BA10 but some reviewers really crap on them. I don't know if KZ's are for me because I like a warm natural tone with a hint of spark in the treble. Should I try BA10 regardless or something else like DQ6 ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

skreddy said:


> So the only KZs I have are the ZS10 Pro and they have this metallic timbre which I hate and the mids are too recessed, there is no meat in electric guitars. I was thinking about trying the BA10 but some reviewers really crap on them. I don't know if KZ's are for me because I like a warm natural tone with a hint of spark in the treble. Should I try BA10 regardless or something else like DQ6 ?


If you want a more natural timbre, I very much doubt the BA10 will do it better (maybe even worse) than the ZS10 Pro. I suggest you take a look at some single DD iems.


----------



## StacoHRP (Jan 26, 2021)

skreddy said:


> So the only KZs I have are the ZS10 Pro and they have this metallic timbre which I hate and the mids are too recessed, there is no meat in electric guitars. I was thinking about trying the BA10 but some reviewers really crap on them. I don't know if KZ's are for me because I like a warm natural tone with a hint of spark in the treble. Should I try BA10 regardless or something else like DQ6 ?



My last expenditure for KZ is also ZS10 PRO. Thought all KZ's BA driver suffering this metallic timbre, no exceptions to BA10 I'd auditions last year based on memories.
Using Final Type E is the way I deal with all of KZ house tuning and metallic tinge.


----------



## wopossum

skreddy said:


> So the only KZs I have are the ZS10 Pro and they have this metallic timbre which I hate and the mids are too recessed, there is no meat in electric guitars. I was thinking about trying the BA10 but some reviewers really crap on them. I don't know if KZ's are for me because I like a warm natural tone with a hint of spark in the treble. Should I try BA10 regardless or something else like DQ6 ?




I'd say you pretty much won't find such a deal with BAs without this metallic timbre. Just try to imagine BAs are your Fender Strat and then your DD setup is then Gibson Les Paul. It's also possible to make Strat sound relatively close to LP through replacing pickups with humbuckers.
Which then transcribes as a weird tuning of BAs if you want. 

You can check out QoA Vesper. It has a large 10mm dynamic driver and 1 BA from Knowles. It also has a darkened tuning which would fit you.
Other suggestion - CCA CA16 but these will be worse as they have much more BA drivers and I don't think that's your choice.

Personally, I always seemed to prefer Telecaster over any of these.


----------



## RikudouGoku

wopossum said:


> I'd say you pretty much won't find such a deal with BAs without this metallic timbre. Just try to imagine BAs are your Fender Strat and then your DD setup is then Gibson Les Paul. It's also possible to make Strat sound relatively close to LP through replacing pickups with humbuckers.
> Which then transcribes as a weird tuning of BAs if you want.
> 
> You can check out QoA Vesper. It has a large 10mm dynamic driver and 1 BA from Knowles. It also has a darkened tuning which would fit you.
> ...


There are some Ba iems with very good timbre, like the Audiosense DT200 (and probably the DT100).


----------



## wopossum

RikudouGoku said:


> There are some Ba iems with very good timbre, like the Audiosense DT200 (and probably the DT100).



Yeah, I know there are some out there, but I'm not quite familiar with Audiosense. I looked it up, and I think that's just a little bit over his budget (my guess).


----------



## RikudouGoku

wopossum said:


> Yeah, I know there are some out there, but I'm not quite familiar with Audiosense. I looked it up, and I think that's just a little bit over his budget (my guess).


yeah, thats why I recommended single DDs.


----------



## Sebulr

skreddy said:


> So the only KZs I have are the ZS10 Pro and they have this metallic timbre which I hate and the mids are too recessed, there is no meat in electric guitars. I was thinking about trying the BA10 but some reviewers really crap on them. I don't know if KZ's are for me because I like a warm natural tone with a hint of spark in the treble. Should I try BA10 regardless or something else like DQ6 ?


I know what you mean about the metallic timbre on hi hats and snare drums on the zs10 pro. For what it's worth it isn't there on the zsx. I can partially fix it with foam in the nozzles. Can't comment on the newer kz iems. I think it's caused by undampened ba drivers in the nozzle, but on the other hand I can't hear it as much in the original zs10.


----------



## StacoHRP (Jan 26, 2021)

Sebulr said:


> I know what you mean about the metallic timbre on hi hats and snare drums on the zs10 pro. For what it's worth it isn't there on the zsx. I can partially fix it with foam in the nozzles. Can't comment on the newer kz iems. I think it's caused by undampened ba drivers in the nozzle, but on the other hand I can't hear it as much in the original zs10.



But... Even with mods like foam or sponge, can't really dish out the metallic timbre on Balance Armature driver. It's there as it hallmark.


----------



## PhonoPhi

StacoHRP said:


> But... Even with mods like foam or sponge, can't really dish out the metallic timbre on Balance Armature driver. It's there as the hallmark.


Why not?
One can alway cut something out.
The case in point would be AS12 with quite heavily dampened treble that works great for many.

A general point also would be that it is much easy to remove something than to add. You can't add the extended treble and resolution to an average DD sound profile. While you may find your acceptable level of treble with BAs using different filters/dampening.

ZS10 pro are an epitome of KZ cheerful V with those "steely" BAs used then, and while not my personal cup of tea, they are a nice extreme (loved how electric guitars could sound with ZS10 pro!)

BA10 are definitely smoother, one of the most "refined" KZ signatures. If not for the limitations of the shell size (and some sharp edges), BA10 could be much more popular!

Then, recent generations of BA drivers are noticeably more refined. ZAX would be a prime example. For very treble-averse -CA16 can do well. I use CA16 for both very treble rich and less refined recordings.

CA16 and ZAX are one of the very good options to spend $100 on IEMs, in my opinion.


----------



## StacoHRP

PhonoPhi said:


> Why not?
> One can alway cut something out.
> The case in point would be AS12 with quite heavily dampened treble that works great for many.
> 
> ...



I'm agree to disagree


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 27, 2021)

Having the DQ6 for nearly two weeks, now, I can say that I really like them. My choice of eartip (flip-tip KZ) improves both air and separation in the presentation.

The AS12 is still my favorite but the DQ6 is an impressive touchdown in my book.






In other news, the new KZ 8-core cables are now on Amazon.

Might want to wait for more sellers.

Current seller charges nearly double the Ali price *and* $5 shipping.

I was going to order six cables (2 silver, 2 copper and 2 gold/copper).
That would be $48 + shipping on Ali but $120 on Amazon.

I wouldn't mind paying $72 with free shipping (@ $12 a pop) on Amazon but $120 (or $20 a pop) is definitely a no go. Wait for more Amazon sellers or pick yours up on AliExpress.

Always read the fine print.














EDIT: https://www.amazon.com/OFC-Oxygen-F...+OFC+OXYGEN+FREE+COPPER&qid=1611766286&sr=8-3


----------



## chifihead

Alpha Whale said:


> Having the DQ6 for nearly two weeks, now, I can say that I really like them. My choice of eartip (flip-tip KZ) improves both air and separation in the presentation.
> 
> The AS12 is still my favorite but the DQ6 is an impressive touchdown in my book.
> 
> ...


Dang, the silver one is pretty! This is the first time I heard of them.. I reckon they don't come in 0.78 (non-QDC)?


----------



## jamess71

Ok guys. I think I'm about to pull the trigger. I've got 3 pair in my cart right now for $65. Please let me know if this looks like a good mix. I have the KZ DQ6, KZ ZST, and the KZ EDX. I'm now looking into a usb dac amp dongle for my phone. Thanks again all.


----------



## unifutomaki

Alpha Whale said:


> Having the DQ6 for nearly two weeks, now, I can say that I really like them. My choice of eartip (flip-tip KZ) improves both air and separation in the presentation.
> 
> The AS12 is still my favorite but the DQ6 is an impressive touchdown in my book.
> 
> ...



No balanced option _le sigh_


----------



## courierdriver

Tonymac136 said:


> I do use Ali, and I've only had 2 issues. It's cheaper enough than Amazon for me to treat it as "Caveat Emptor", to be honest I can't be bothered to go through the rigmarole of sending stuff back to China. What I've saved has paid for the 2 bad pairs I've received. I won't buy LZ because of the issues, but I'm content to keep using Ali.
> 
> Edit : Also, I don't like to give Besos any more of my hard earned than I have to, especially with the way his workers are treated here in the UK.


Good point, friend. Amazon become just as bad as China in the way they treat their workers in many of their warehouses. It takes a bit longer; but I get a better price on Aliexpress. Don't care about 2 day or whatever shipping, just as long as I get tracking info...I'm happy. I always choose Aliexpress Standard shipping for anything I buy (15-30 days to Canada). Only had one problem over the past 2.5 years and was refunded my money without any problems.


----------



## saldsald

Alpha Whale said:


> Having the DQ6 for nearly two weeks, now, I can say that I really like them. My choice of eartip (flip-tip KZ) improves both air and separation in the presentation.
> 
> The AS12 is still my favorite but the DQ6 is an impressive touchdown in my book.
> 
> ...


Do you mind sharing the links for these cables?


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

jamess71 said:


> Hi ScrofulousBinturong, My budget is flexible, for these I guess around $60. I was going to just get the new galaxy buds to go with my S20 FE but decided to hop on HeadFi and here I am again. Always looking for more for less. As for what music I listen to it's all over the place. From electronic, to hardcore metal, to rap, to rock, etc etc. so nothing specific really. Thanks


Ok then I'll echo the ZSX Terminator suggestion. It's a fun listen, with big bass but not too much, and better / less aggressive trebles than other similarly voiced IEMs.

Outside KZ there's the Blon BL-03 but the fit is atrocious.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

wopossum said:


> I'd say you pretty much won't find such a deal with BAs without this metallic timbre. Just try to imagine BAs are your Fender Strat and then your DD setup is then Gibson Les Paul. It's also possible to make Strat sound relatively close to LP through replacing pickups with humbuckers.
> Which then transcribes as a weird tuning of BAs if you want.
> 
> You can check out QoA Vesper. It has a large 10mm dynamic driver and 1 BA from Knowles. It also has a darkened tuning which would fit you.
> ...


That's a dang good analogy, assuming one knows what those guitars sound like.


----------



## chinmie

wopossum said:


> I'd say you pretty much won't find such a deal with BAs without this metallic timbre. Just try to imagine BAs are your Fender Strat and then your DD setup is then Gibson Les Paul. It's also possible to make Strat sound relatively close to LP through replacing pickups with humbuckers.
> Which then transcribes as a weird tuning of BAs if you want.
> 
> You can check out QoA Vesper. It has a large 10mm dynamic driver and 1 BA from Knowles. It also has a darkened tuning which would fit you.
> ...



i don't have problems with the "twangy" sound of the BA, to follow the guitar related analogy   

also similar to guitars, it's easier to add warmth to BAs with amps and EQs (similar to making strat/tele sounding like les paul, even with single coils) than removing the warmth


----------



## noobandroid

I've never seen mentions of kz aptx HD neckband, i ordered one and hoping to see a feedback, gonna pair with either the kz as10 or cca c12


----------



## seanwee

It's nowhere near as simple as if it's a BA, it will have "twangy" guitars or have a metallic timbre. 

I've heard plenty of dynamic driver iems that sound more shrill than BA iems and plenty of BA iems that sound very warm and dark.

It just lies in the skill of the tuner, poorly tuned ones will show the poor characteristics of said driver while well tuned ones will be able to overcome said characteristics.


----------



## Pelicampe

jamess71 said:


> Ok guys. I think I'm about to pull the trigger. I've got 3 pair in my cart right now for $65. Please let me know if this looks like a good mix. I have the KZ DQ6, KZ ZST, and the KZ EDX. I'm now looking into a usb dac amp dongle for my phone. Thanks again all.



Good choice the QD6  
Don't know ZST
EDX is useless. Poor isolation, poor stage, peaks in 2-4k aera and KZ's big bump in 80-100hz.

Really not a bad IEM for the price but gonna be useless facing QD6.
Mine is in my desk drawer at work if I forget to bring some IEM for the week...


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

noobandroid said:


> I've never seen mentions of kz aptx HD neckband, i ordered one and hoping to see a feedback, gonna pair with either the kz as10 or cca c12



Audible hiss at low volumes. Disappears in to the background at normal volume levels. I was in the habit of nodding off to sleep with podcasts at very low levels. The pods were inaudible due to the hiss. Connection however is good. Never dropped out on me. Battery warning level is poor. To be honest I have it paired with zs10s and I use it a lot.  Very happy with its sound. It sounds far better than the sony wi c 400 i paid 55 euro for.  Cable a bit too long I would think for jogging.


----------



## wopossum (Jan 27, 2021)

seanwee said:


> It's nowhere near as simple as if it's a BA, it will have "twangy" guitars or have a metallic timbre.
> 
> I've heard plenty of dynamic driver iems that sound more shrill than BA iems and plenty of BA iems that sound very warm and dark.
> 
> It just lies in the skill of the tuner, poorly tuned ones will show the poor characteristics of said driver while well tuned ones will be able to overcome said characteristics.



Sure, but I made that kind of comparison for a reason, your ordinary LP usually has a lot of sustain because of humbuckers, guitar's body specifically made and other things, which is then your DD driver.
BA, on the other hand, some people don't like them as they sound artificial because of their fast attack/decay type of response.

It's not just warmth in terms of frequency response graph. Both guitars and IEM and headphones, in general, have a massive variety of technical details that you need to consider before getting one.


I just thought if a guy said about "there is no meat in electric guitars", he'd be familiar with that kind of comparison that I gave.


----------



## voicemaster

wopossum said:


> Sure, but I made that kind of comparison for a reason, your ordinary LP usually has a lot of sustain because of humbuckers, guitar's body specifically made and other things, which is then your DD driver.
> BA, on the other hand, some people don't like them as they sound artificial because of their fast attack/decay type of response.
> 
> It's not just warmth in terms of frequency response graph. Both guitars and IEM and headphones, in general, have a massive variety of technical details that you need to consider before getting one.


I think for me its more like the difference between metal string and nylon string on an acoustic guitar.


----------



## Pelicampe

After +100 hours of burning, some measurements of my DQ6s... 

Before and after burning, no differences can be seen on screen 

 Comparo between my nears DD models (and LZ A7 for ref...)













A really good tuning from KZ ! 


For debat between tips or cables swap... 







Don't spent too much money in cables, just buy a beautiful and comfortable one.


----------



## Pelicampe

For finish... my others KZ/CCA
Really love this DQ6 tuning....   









Hope it's not too spamming....


----------



## voicemaster

Pelicampe said:


> After +100 hours of burning, some measurements of my DQ6s...
> 
> Before and after burning, no differences can be seen on screen
> 
> ...


I don't buy cable in search for changing the sound, but more for looks, durability and non-tangled cable. KZ cable is okay, but it is a freaking tangled prone.


----------



## Pelicampe

voicemaster said:


> I don't buy cable in search for changing the sound, but more for looks, durability and non-tangled cable. KZ cable is okay, but it is a freaking tangled prone.



Read my comment under the tips graph. 
We are agree


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jan 27, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Do you mind sharing the links for these cables?



You've a good eye there. Thanks

I've edited the original post by including the link at the bottom.


I also wanted to take the opportunity to thank you for your feedback on the CCA CKX over on the CCA thread. I had completely forgotten that there is a CCA thread.

Glad to hear that you *"prefer the timbre on the CKX over the NM2+"* (similar sound signature but better treble presentation) and in fact chose it as your favorite IEM for the late-2020/early-2021 time frame.

Am I correct about that?

I saw the specs and figured it might be an upgrade to the ZSN Pro presentation (due to the two - oops -  30095 and four 30017 BAs) but your feedback has me rethinking my suspicions.


Spoiler










Actually, it shouldn't surprise me a bit if it turns out to be a showstopper.
*The great KZ/CCA in-ears usually fall between the cracks. *

I'll order a CKX in the next few days to hear them for myself but thanks in advance for the additional feedback.






I don't need another IEM but the CKX seems interesting enough (¿CCA C10 with better treble extension?) to pick one up.


----------



## Sebulr

Interesting graphs @Pelicampe. Slightly off topic but your graphs seem to show that the Blon bl-01 has more bass than the 03. Weird, that's not what I hear. Perhaps it's unit variability? I'm tempted to get ckx now. Looks similarly tuned to my ahem cough qt2. A dual dynamic 1 ba iem.


----------



## baskingshark

Sebulr said:


> Interesting graphs @Pelicampe. Slightly off topic but your graphs seem to show that the Blon bl-01 has more bass than the 03. Weird, that's not what I hear. Perhaps it's unit variability? I'm tempted to get ckx now. Looks similarly tuned to my ahem cough qt2. A dual dynamic 1 ba iem.



Actually I also find the BLON BL-01 has more bass than the BL-03 (this is using same tips, same source/cable and volume matched). But I think a lot of folks are using aftermarket tips with the BLON BL-03 due to the crap stock tip fit, so different aftermarket tips give different seal and hence subbass amounts (due to isolation). Tips by themselves can also alter the FR and make things sound bassier/less bassy. Ear anatomy maybe might play a part too and unit variation (QC) as you say.


----------



## saldsald (Jan 27, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> You've a good eye there. Thanks
> 
> I've edited the original post by including the link at the bottom.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link.

Yes indeed I prefer the overall sound of the CKX over the NM2+. I actually like the bass, mid and treble better on the CKX not just the treble . The NM2+ may have better dynamic range, layering and treble extension (more air) but sometimes out of control to my ears - too loud, too quiet, and sometimes shouty. YMMV thou. I actually have two favorites just never mentioned. The CKX and BQEYZ spring 2 are the two IEMs I really like that I never have the intention to switch while listening with them. 

From my experience, having one treble BA in the nozzle can be shouty, but having multiple BAs for the treble with one in the nozzle is never shouty at all and usually these IEMs have a thicker mid sound signature. I don't have the ZSN Pro so can't really comment on it.

I totally agree that "*The great KZ/CCA in-ears usually fall between the cracks". *The ZAX is popular IMO because it has a more distinctive sound signature and better marketing. KZ/CCA don't seem to hard selling their CCA line nearly as much as the KZ line. The CCA line has more mature tunings IMO and maybe better suit the preference of mature (old) people.

I think the small size of the CKX alone is enough for people to appreciate as there are 6 BAs and 1 10mm DD inside. I only bought about 20 IEMs last year and I keep telling myself I don't need another too.


----------



## jamess71

Well, Thanks to getting back on Head-Fi after about 10 years away, I made my first purchase today. And thanks to this forum I'm starting relatively cheap. 
I just got the Meizu MasterHIFI Audio D/A Converter Headphone Amplifier, KZ ZST, and BLON BL01. I know it's not much but I am very excited to get back into this hobby. I can't wait until friday.


----------



## alamnp

jamess71 said:


> Well, Thanks to getting back on Head-Fi after about 10 years away, I made my first purchase today. And thanks to this forum I'm starting relatively cheap.
> I just got the Meizu MasterHIFI Audio D/A Converter Headphone Amplifier, KZ ZST, and BLON BL01. I know it's not much but I am very excited to get back into this hobby. I can't wait until friday.



btw if you have BLON, try tripowin TC01, sounds crazy


----------



## astermk

saldsald said:


> The ZAX is popular IMO because it has a more distinctive sound signature and better marketing. KZ/CCA don't seem to hard selling their CCA line nearly as much as the KZ line. The CCA line has more mature tunings IMO and maybe better suit the preference of mature (old) people.


To an extent, this is true as KZ is really better marketed (I mean, it is the main brand) but in the case of the ZAX I would argue that it's popular simply because it's the most technically refined IEM from KZ/CCA with the typical "KZ tuning". I also have both the 1DD/7BA hybrid flagships from both companies, the KZ ZAX and the CCA CA16 and I easily prefer the ZAX between them. The CA16 has serious mud issues and the midbass vastly congests the midrange, while there's something really weird going on with the treble that I can't exactly pinpoint (sounds wonky in general, sometimes like heavy lossy compression). The ZAX is much harder to fault -  it has a really minor issue with sounding metallic, and that's about all I can think of. The CA16 is also straight up hard to drive off of conventional sources like smartphones and only comes alive when driven off a dedicated amp. The ZAX also has a bigger stage in every axis and is built and looks way better. The CA16 sounds slightly better for male vocals and has the more comfortable shell for me but both are comfortable and the CA16 shell is too cheap feeling to make the compromise.

I think it's a case of the best model being the most popular model sometimes.

Also, whoever decided on the narrow nozzle and new clear tips thing with new models like the CA16, ASF and ASX should stop immediately. The thin nozzle literally seems to kill or seriously dampen treble in every model it's on, and the ear tips are just laughably terrible. If the ASX just had a wider nozzle, it might have sounded completely different.


----------



## saldsald

astermk said:


> To an extent, this is true as KZ is really better marketed (I mean, it is the main brand) but in the case of the ZAX I would argue that it's popular simply because it's the most technically refined IEM from KZ/CCA with the typical "KZ tuning". I also have both the 1DD/7BA hybrid flagships from both companies, the KZ ZAX and the CCA CA16 and I easily prefer the ZAX between them. The CA16 has serious mud issues and the midbass vastly congests the midrange, while there's something really weird going on with the treble that I can't exactly pinpoint (sounds wonky in general, sometimes like heavy lossy compression). The ZAX is much harder to fault -  it has a really minor issue with sounding metallic, and that's about all I can think of. The CA16 is also straight up hard to drive off of conventional sources like smartphones and only comes alive when driven off a dedicated amp. The ZAX also has a bigger stage in every axis and is built and looks way better. The CA16 sounds slightly better for male vocals and has the more comfortable shell for me but both are comfortable and the CA16 shell is too cheap feeling to make the compromise.
> 
> I think it's a case of the best model being the most popular model sometimes.
> 
> Also, whoever decided on the narrow nozzle and new clear tips thing with new models like the CA16, ASF and ASX should stop immediately. The thin nozzle literally seems to kill or seriously dampen treble in every model it's on, and the ear tips are just laughably terrible. If the ASX just had a wider nozzle, it might have sounded completely different.



I had the CA16 and the ASX but sold them both. The CA16 had almost all the issues you mentioned above and the ASX as far as I know requires a lot of running-in/cable-rolling/tip-rolling or EQ to get reasonably balanced sounds. I also had the ZAX in fact and sold it as I could not deal with that metallic sound and that weird artificial sound on top of that. The ZAX came out first and that is why it is the "best model" and more popular. It is more "fun" sounding to my ears too and I guess that's why it is more popular as the market likes "fun" sounding earphones better than a more conservatively tuned one like the CKX. There are also so little headfiers willing to try the CKX because of the popularity of the ZAX and the similar configuration on paper (you even get one more BA compare to the CKX) that they don't feel (including me until I sold my ZAX) they need to get the another multiple BA single DD hybrid. 

It is not really the "best model" being the most popular in any case IMO. I am not trying to promote the CKX here but have you even tried one, and also the majority owners of the ZAX, how many of us here have both of them? How can anyone reach the conclusion that "this is the best model" without even trying the other models out there? 

Anyway, speaking of nozzle the CKX's nozzles are WIDE, I even have difficulty finding the right tips.


----------



## wopossum (Jan 28, 2021)

B9Scrambler said:


> Little comparo of measurements from a few of their recent models. They've got a specific sound in mind it seems. DQ6 is the best of the bunch imo.



I was interested in that and just checked ZAX vs Harman target curve(both normalised at 60db), and it looks relatively close. Even though 50-200hz seems to be more emphasised, and Harman target curve starts to fall at 200hz, KZ tuning seems to go all the way up to 400hz. Then an uplift from 1.5k up to 2.5k(if you'll play with EQ, you'll get why).

Blue - ZAX, grey - Harman target.


----------



## G777

My KZ DQ6 arrived today. Without even trying them on, I have to say this is a nice looking IEM!


----------



## eclein

I read the latest few pages here last night and ordered a Silver pair of the CKX and just got the shipping notice its coming tomorrow by Amazons drivers. We have several Amazon warehouses near me so I get lucky sometimes..... I’ll update as things happen!


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## G777

G777 said:


> My KZ DQ6 arrived today. Without even trying them on, I have to say this is a nice looking IEM!


Also, these things are so sensitive! Almost have to run them at the lowest volume setting to get a normal volume level.


----------



## courierdriver

jamess71 said:


> Well, Thanks to getting back on Head-Fi after about 10 years away, I made my first purchase today. And thanks to this forum I'm starting relatively cheap.
> I just got the Meizu MasterHIFI Audio D/A Converter Headphone Amplifier, KZ ZST, and BLON BL01. I know it's not much but I am very excited to get back into this hobby. I can't wait until friday.


Welcome back! Geez...10 years! Sounds like me. I joined in 2005, posted a bit on the full sized headphones section and never posted again until around 2018/2019. That's when (thanks to a YouTube guy who was also a headfi member) was posting video reviews of iems. After a horrible experience with iems back in 2005, I swore I'd never ever own another one. Yet, over a decade later, here's this dude describing some sub $100 iems from KZ. Now, I'm kinda hooked on less expensive iem gear. Things have really progressed alot, since you been gone. I own the Blon-01 and I like it alot.


----------



## unifutomaki

wopossum said:


> I was interested in that and just checked ZAX vs Harman target curve(both normalised at 60db), and it looks relatively close. Even though 50-200hz seems to be more emphasised, and Harman target curve starts to fall at 200hz, KZ tuning seems to go all the way up to 400hz. Then an uplift from 1.5k up to 2.5k(if you'll play with EQ, you'll get why).
> 
> Blue - ZAX, grey - Harman target.



Every time I return to the ZAX, I'm again impressed by its overall tonality, treble extension and technicalities. These have had a ton of staying power in my collection for sure.


----------



## guido

I also love the ZAX...really impressed!


----------



## slex

guido said:


> I also love the ZAX...really impressed!


Me too, my first hybrid. I like the imaging on it.😊


----------



## BubisUK

And I love my DQ6  The complete setup makes this a nice pair of 50$ iem 😃


----------



## astermk

In regards to the ZAX, and really, pretty much everything KZ has ever come out with, my only real gripe is the bass elevation starting to rise too early - it starts going north of neutral as early as 400Hz. I realize it's done for warmth and musicality and sometimes it works but other times it comes off as a little muddy. So that's a part of their "house sound" I don't really like. I just EQ up the sub bass a little and bring down the 150-300hz range to reduce the bleed a bit and even though it sounds notably colder, it works for me.

On to another topic: KZ's next flagship needs to be a tribrid. I feel like they're seriously nearing the limit of what they can do with DD + BA in a certain price range.$100ish planar IEMs are starting to be a thing, so maybe they can replace the midrange BAs with a planar driver next time around and hike up the price accordingly. Or maybe even hook up the planar driver as a full range so it adds just a little magic to the whole spectrum. ESTs I feel are a long long time away from trickling down into budget IEMs, but planar seems feasible to me.


----------



## scratchmassive

I'm just a small time newbie with a pair of old Klipsch iems till I came across the ZAX. Blew me away with how much better they perform at a fraction of the price. It's opened up the whole world of chi-fi and I think I am obsessed. Is this the rabbit hole...


----------



## unifutomaki

scratchmassive said:


> I'm just a small time newbie with a pair of old Klipsch iems till I came across the ZAX. Blew me away with how much better they perform at a fraction of the price. It's opened up the whole world of chi-fi and I think I am obsessed. Is this the rabbit hole...



Welcome to the club! KZ is often a gateway drug to Head-Fi syndrome; once you've been hooked, there's no turning back!

the next significant AliExpress sale is in March, plan your requisitions accordingly


----------



## ChrisOc

*Get your votes in!

Voting is open until 1200 (GMT) 30th January 2021!

Your favourite IEMs might still be in the running!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...r-monitors-2020-please-read-the-rules.950854/*


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

scratchmassive said:


> I'm just a small time newbie with a pair of old Klipsch iems till I came across the ZAX. Blew me away with how much better they perform at a fraction of the price. It's opened up the whole world of chi-fi and I think I am obsessed. Is this the rabbit hole...


What drew me in was something very similar. I thought my soundmagic P22bt over ears were the best sound you could get for a reasonable price. The technical capabilities of these chi fi iems are quite extraordinary though. As someone who came from sony single driver units their is no comparison with what kz can do.  I have only just started collecting. So far I have the ATE, ZST and the ZS10. Watching Judge Dredd on netflix recently with the ZS10 was an astounding experience. The feeling of sounds coming in from far away, the immersive nature of the experience transformed a rather okay film in to a thrilling experience. A lightbulb moment. Have ordered the ZSN. Might try an all BA IEM next. Mulling over the As10, As06 and as an outlier the cca c12. Thanks for all the posts here. I learned so much from reading along.


----------



## jamess71

courierdriver said:


> Welcome back! Geez...10 years! Sounds like me. I joined in 2005, posted a bit on the full sized headphones section and never posted again until around 2018/2019. That's when (thanks to a YouTube guy who was also a headfi member) was posting video reviews of iems. After a horrible experience with iems back in 2005, I swore I'd never ever own another one. Yet, over a decade later, here's this dude describing some sub $100 iems from KZ. Now, I'm kinda hooked on less expensive iem gear. Things have really progressed alot, since you been gone. I own the Blon-01 and I like it alot.



I'm waiting on the Amazon truck now. I'll post my first impressions later. The time flew by thats for sure. You see the kids in my avatar? They are not so little anymore.  I'll be looking into source material now. I got rid of all my CD's years ago. I really wish I still had the hard drive with all of them ripped to lossless. About 250 cd's worth. All gone. I lost the drive during a move. Oh well, I guess I'll be looking into streaming music now. Good excuse to find new music online.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

jamess71 said:


> I'm waiting on the Amazon truck now. I'll post my first impressions later. The time flew by thats for sure. You see the kids in my avatar? They are not so little anymore.  I'll be looking into source material now. I got rid of all my CD's years ago. I really wish I still had the hard drive with all of them ripped to lossless. About 250 cd's worth. All gone. I lost the drive during a move. Oh well, I guess I'll be looking into streaming music now. Good excuse to find new music online.



Spotify it up dude. 320kbps on modern codecs is all you need. Even the 256kbps AAC that YouTube Music uses is near transparent. Don't stress it.


----------



## courierdriver

jamess71 said:


> I'm waiting on the Amazon truck now. I'll post my first impressions later. The time flew by thats for sure. You see the kids in my avatar? They are not so little anymore.  I'll be looking into source material now. I got rid of all my CD's years ago. I really wish I still had the hard drive with all of them ripped to lossless. About 250 cd's worth. All gone. I lost the drive during a move. Oh well, I guess I'll be looking into streaming music now. Good excuse to find new music online.


You can also rediscover or get back your old music collection, by going with a streaming service. Many use Tidal or Qobuz, but I find their monthly fees kinda pricey for me. I use Spotify premium. Only $9.99 per month and you can download your music onto your phone or onto an SD card for offline listening. Yeah, it's only 320 kbps; but with a good portable dac/amp (like an ES100, Qudelix K5 or Fiio Q1MK2 or Q3) which will upsample anyway; it's a great way to get back into high quality audio at a better price. As a guy who spent almost 25 years buying and selling components in a 2 channel, home speaker based setup...I can definitely say I enjoy my inexpensive iem setup much more. Please let us know how you like (or dislike) the new gear you'll be getting once you have had some time to listen to it. Cheers!🍺


----------



## eclein

I got my Silver CCA CKX’s today and I’m loving them! I’ve been tinkering with them for almost 12 hours now and currently my favorite setup is SednaEarfitLight tips and a balanced Linsoul Tripowin Zonie 16 Core Silver Plated Cable SPC Earphone Cable! Easily my favorite CCA/KZ IEM!
These little babies become totally lost in my ear after a short while and the imaging they are providing makes like a large bubble of music all around my head, like a old sci-fi space helmet filled with music 🎶 it’s awesome!
Got mine from Amazon in 2days and this impulse buy may be my best yet! LOL 😆! 
CCA is proving to be a fantastic source for exquisite affordable IEM’s!


----------



## SomeGuyDude

courierdriver said:


> You can also rediscover or get back your old music collection, by going with a streaming service. Many use Tidal or Qobuz, but I find their monthly fees kinda pricey for me. I use Spotify premium. Only $9.99 per month and you can download your music onto your phone or onto an SD card for offline listening. Yeah, it's only 320 kbps; but with a good portable dac/amp (like an ES100, Qudelix K5 or Fiio Q1MK2 or Q3) which will upsample anyway; it's a great way to get back into high quality audio at a better price. As a guy who spent almost 25 years buying and selling components in a 2 channel, home speaker based setup...I can definitely say I enjoy my inexpensive iem setup much more. Please let us know how you like (or dislike) the new gear you'll be getting once you have had some time to listen to it. Cheers!🍺



I was at a meetup a few years back where a dude came in with a massive amount of summit-fi gear and he was using Spotify. His philosophy was: put your efforts into the stuff that actually makes a difference.

And it's funny you talked about inexpensive. I think there's a different enjoyment you get with them that you just cannot achieve with TOTL stuff. If I drop $1700 on headphones, ANY issues they have make them hard to enjoy because of the cost. Meanwhile if I pick up some KZs for $60 and they sound pretty awesome they'll be exceeding expectations and make the flaws not a big deal. 

I constantly wonder where that sweet spot is between the two. I'm thinking somewhere around $200.


----------



## wopossum

SomeGuyDude said:


> I constantly wonder where that sweet spot is between the two. I'm thinking somewhere around $200.




I think yea, it's somewhere in between $200 and $300.


----------



## SybilLance

Yoo-Hoo! Just checked in to greet everyone. It's been sooo long. And several hundred pages to read...Oh My!


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

SomeGuyDude said:


> I was at a meetup a few years back where a dude came in with a massive amount of summit-fi gear and he was using Spotify. His philosophy was: put your efforts into the stuff that actually makes a difference.


That's interesting. I'd expect TOTL hardware would highlight the lower quality of low bit rate compression. I've accidentally ripped albums twice (320kbps mp3 and flac) and when i pick the mp3 version by accident i can tell immediately on my sub-$100-per-piece gear, so I'd imagine a $4k+ stack would make it worse. No?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> That's interesting. I'd expect TOTL hardware would highlight the lower quality of low bit rate compression. I've accidentally ripped albums twice (320kbps mp3 and flac) and when i pick the mp3 version by accident i can tell immediately on my sub-$100-per-piece gear, so I'd imagine a $4k+ stack would make it worse. No?



You must have been using a seriously trash version of the codec then, because it's been proven an ungodly number of times in ABX testing that 320kbps is indistinguishable from lossless, and 256kbps using AAC is damn close.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

SomeGuyDude said:


> You must have been using a seriously trash version of the codec then, because it's been proven an ungodly number of times in ABX testing that 320kbps is indistinguishable from lossless, and 256kbps using AAC is damn close.


Idk, the dynamic range and trebles sound different to me, though i haven't done an abx test. I did get an audiogram recently that showed unusually keen hearing but I'm happy to be wrong about this.


----------



## baskingshark

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Idk, the dynamic range and trebles sound different to me, though i haven't done an abx test. I did get an audiogram recently that showed unusually keen hearing but I'm happy to be wrong about this.



U can do a simple test here:  https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality to see if u can tell apart 128 kbps MP3 from 320 MP3 from WAV.


----------



## chinmie

SomeGuyDude said:


> I constantly wonder where that sweet spot is between the two. I'm thinking somewhere around $200





wopossum said:


> I think yea, it's somewhere in between $200 and $300.



same. some of my favorites like the MT100, LZ A7, and ER4XR, are in the $300 bracket and they are my benchmarks to keep me from buying higher priced gears. I've listened to IEMs and headphones above that up to the thousands of $, though there are some that i love, can't seem to justify myself to purchase them.. because i know even that won't stop me from buying and trying other things. 

in fact, even the cheaper sub $50 like the T2+ and ZS10 pro can give me heaps of listening enjoyment already that i think that is a sweet spot too. Add earbuds to the equation, and that sweet spot price would go even lower



ScrofulousBinturong said:


> That's interesting. I'd expect TOTL hardware would highlight the lower quality of low bit rate compression. I've accidentally ripped albums twice (320kbps mp3 and flac) and when i pick the mp3 version by accident i can tell immediately on my sub-$100-per-piece gear, so I'd imagine a $4k+ stack would make it worse. No?



even though there are some sound differences between files, it would be more like really small EQ differences. on less compressed recordings like live classical/jazz performances you might spot the difference in dynamics, but on modern busy tracks like rock and pop, it would be hard. 
bluetooth codecs like APTX, AAC, SBC, LDAC also have slight differences, but only on the farthest low end and top end of the EQ. 
for me the difference is really small that when i can hear the differences by comparing them, usually I'm in the "over-critical" state and most likely not enjoying the music in the end


----------



## artatgray

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> when i pick the mp3 version by accident i can tell immediately on my sub-$100-per-piece gear, so I'd imagine a $4k+ stack would make it worse. No?



Price has never been a reliable indicator of performance when it comes to audio equipment. (Ex. I've seen a performance analysis of a $15,000USD DAC that measured far worst than a $100USD barebones one, and I've seen an analysis of sub $100USD headphones that blow $2,000USD ones out of the water in terms of distortion and frequency response.)

By the way, I'm a scientist-engineer by training and profession. So, please don't come at me with "My ears and what I hear are all that matters.", because I'm not interested in subjective experiences which have occurred in an uncontrolled listening environment. 

As for MP3 artifacts, the vast majority of people can't tell the difference between a well encoded, 320+ kbps MP3 and FLAC. However, a trained professional can and will recognize the artifacts with varying degrees of success. 

I can hear the difference between a 128 kbps encoded MP3 and FLAC, but once the bitrate hits >= 192 kbps, especially using variable bitrate encoding, I have difficulty.


----------



## seanwee

astermk said:


> In regards to the ZAX, and really, pretty much everything KZ has ever come out with, my only real gripe is the bass elevation starting to rise too early - it starts going north of neutral as early as 400Hz. I realize it's done for warmth and musicality and sometimes it works but other times it comes off as a little muddy. So that's a part of their "house sound" I don't really like. I just EQ up the sub bass a little and bring down the 150-300hz range to reduce the bleed a bit and even though it sounds notably colder, it works for me.
> 
> On to another topic: KZ's next flagship needs to be a tribrid. I feel like they're seriously nearing the limit of what they can do with DD + BA in a certain price range.$100ish planar IEMs are starting to be a thing, so maybe they can replace the midrange BAs with a planar driver next time around and hike up the price accordingly. Or maybe even hook up the planar driver as a full range so it adds just a little magic to the whole spectrum. ESTs I feel are a long long time away from trickling down into budget IEMs, but planar seems feasible to me.


I'd love to see @crinacle take a shot at tuning KZ iems. He did mention he wants to tune a budget one and a super high end one.


----------



## astermk

seanwee said:


> I'd love to see @crinacle take a shot at tuning KZ iems. He did mention he wants to tune a budget one and a super high end one.


I've been lowkey hoping for something like that, too - the combination of a golden ears tuner like Crin and a brand that is able to cram huge hardware into an IEM at a low price. It doesn't have to be KZ, it can be a TRN as well for example. I think that combo, as long as it doesn't come with a huge price hike compared to the company's other IEMs, would be seriously disruptive.
Practical example: KZ x Crinacle ASX:Twilight/Midnight/w/e (following the naming schemes so far) coming in at $110 ($10 over the official ASX price, similar to the Blessing 2 and Blessing 2: Dusk, but a bigger price discrepancy could be reasonable too). The original has a bit of an, uhh, controversial tuning but 10 brand new supposedly vastly better S-series BAs per side. The potential is there for them to shine with proper tuning care, I think. Maybe. That's just one example though.


----------



## r31ya (Jan 31, 2021)

I kinda want KZ ZS10-X Crinacle with KZ new Dynamic driver and Balance driver.
Give more warmth and meat to the vocal, texture to the bass, and make it semi open back like ZAX/ZS7.
It'll be golden.


----------



## shahrul5689

hi guys, ive been following this thread for over a year now since early 2020, this is my 1st post/question here. does kz produce newer bluetooth cable with longer battery life than in the picture model... ive been using this aptx hd one with good enough blon but the battery life is too short for me, ive read about trn bt20 s adapter but i wary about the qc..i have zs10 pro and zsx and they never died on me so i'd go with kz..and i didnt find rwliable bluetooth thread with enough rwplies to read, 😅 sorry for the english


----------



## Gummybuns

shahrul5689 said:


> does kz produce newer bluetooth cable with longer battery life than in the picture model...




So far that's the most recent adapter from KZ and they've been releasing TWS iems for the past year. I guess they're following the trend. 


As for the BT20s I have the pros, never had any issues, the battery life is superb. Downside (well sort of) is it's only aptx. But then again S20+ doesn't support aptx-hd.


----------



## shahrul5689

Gummybuns said:


> So far that's the most recent adapter from KZ and they've been releasing TWS iems for the past year. I guess they're following the trend.
> 
> 
> As for the BT20s I have the pros, never had any issues, the battery life is superb. Downside (well sort of) is it's only aptx. But then again S20+ doesn't support aptx-hd.


thanks bro, guess i'll be content with another same cable i guess😄
can i ask with moderate volume how many hours did you got with bt20s? i think i got about 6 hours with this kz cable


----------



## Gummybuns (Jan 31, 2021)

shahrul5689 said:


> thanks bro, guess i'll be content with another same cable i guess😄
> can i ask with moderate volume how many hours did you got with bt20s? i think i got about 6 hours with this kz cable




Since the adapter is sort of a tws, it lasts me 8-10 hours? It doesn't have a volume rocker tho. But it's a good trade of, I guess. The case itself is a charger as well so it can last longer. Lol.


----------



## shahrul5689

Gummybuns said:


> Since the adapter is sort of a tws, it lasts me 8-10 hours? It doesn't have a volume rocker tho. But it's a good trade of, I guess. The case itself is a charger as well so it can last longer. Lol.


thank you👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 thats a great battery autonomy,  i'll put it into watch 😍


----------



## artatgray (Jan 31, 2021)

astermk said:


> The original has a bit of an, uhh, controversial tuning but 10 brand new supposedly vastly better S-series BAs per side. The potential is there for them to shine with proper tuning care, I think.



One can hear what a properly retuned ASX sounds like right now - I'm doing so currently, and I'm really enjoying them, too. How? Apply these EQ settings to them:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASX

They will sound excellent afterwards! And all of this talk about BA bass sounding anemic compared to DD? Think again... 📱🎧🎶 🤘🏾😷🤘🏾


----------



## whitete

shahrul5689 said:


> thanks bro, guess i'll be content with another same cable i guess😄
> can i ask with moderate volume how many hours did you got with bt20s? i think i got about 6 hours with this kz cable


Thanks to @voicemaster I got the BT20s Pro and love it. I haven’t listened to a corded IEM since. Battery life is as advertised: around 8hrs. I love them with my ZAX.


----------



## IEMusic

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Idk, the dynamic range and trebles sound different to me, though i haven't done an abx test. I did get an audiogram recently that showed unusually keen hearing but I'm happy to be wrong about this.


I think that certain people are particularly sensitive to the missing dynamic range and frequency extremes, as well as any compression artifacts.   I am not really.   In comparing AAC 256 to WAV in a home 2ch setup, with a treated room, I could hear some slight differences, but honestly, I could enjoy the compressed music just as much.   I couldn’t hear significant differences between WAV and SACD though, other than perhaps a slightly better sense of ambience.  I’m thankful that I can’t really hear the differences.   It makes things much simpler for me to use 320 compressed.


----------



## seanwee

I've run many AAC 256 vs MP3 320 vs FLAC vs High res FLAC ABX comparisons myself and yes while I can hear the difference between them, it's not in every song. Some songs that inherently have more air or dynamic range will be affected disproportionately. Also when you get to those higher bitrate lossy vs lossless comparisons or lossless vs high res audio comparisons, it honestly just comes down to knowing what to listen for, the slightly airier sound, better dynamics, how tactile the song sounds etc.

For me it's not so much about needing a song to be lossless or high res as much as simply having a higher quality copy in your collection for archival purposes. If you can have the higher quality version, why not?

If I were space constrained and had to use a lossy format like AAC 256, I wouldn't bat an eye.


----------



## guido

whitete said:


> Thanks to @voicemaster I got the BT20s Pro and love it. I haven’t listened to a corded IEM since. Battery life is as advertised: around 8hrs. I love them with my ZAX.



Which connectors did you get for the ZAX?


----------



## ZAXon 7

SomeGuyDude said:


> You must have been using a seriously trash version of the codec then, because it's been proven an ungodly number of times in ABX testing that 320kbps is indistinguishable from lossless, and 256kbps using AAC is damn close.



for me the difference between flac and mp3 is clearly audible, my guess is that the way software player handles them and in general the software role and weight in the chain is very underestimated.
after all from a flac to a 320kbps mp3 about 30% of data gets lost, if it can't be heard there must be a flaw in the chain.


----------



## Gummybuns

guido said:


> Which connectors did you get for the ZAX?



0.75~0.78 fits fine. QDC fits best as it's secure. the former is a bit looser since the only contact points are the 2 pins itself.


----------



## Gummybuns

artatgray said:


> One can hear what a properly retuned ASX sounds like right now



It did eliminate the "muddiness" and became more open per se. There's still trade offs on the AutoEQ. Still like ASX with or without it. On Wavelet it works best is you set the reverb setting in "plate" AutoEQ on or off still sounds great. 

On a side note. The AutoEQ of AS16 is a bit weird. AS16, although the stage is in front, has a bit of a "breathing room" when the EQ applied the stage is cramped. Weird. Lol.


----------



## guido

Gummybuns said:


> 0.75~0.78 fits fine. QDC fits best as it's secure. the former is a bit looser since the only contact points are the 2 pins itself.



I do not see a QDC version...or is the S type 2pin version the same as QDC?

I suppose the 0,75mm version will be more useful since besides the ZAX they can be used on many other IEMs...

How do the ZAX fit in the charging case? Any problems?


----------



## Gummybuns

guido said:


> How do the ZAX fit in the charging case? Any problems?



Fit is way better compared to ASX. ASX is a big chungus. Lol.


----------



## guido

thx @Gummybuns , so should I go for the 0,75mm pin version for the ZAX?


----------



## Gummybuns

guido said:


> thx @Gummybuns , so should I go for the 0,75mm pin version for the ZAX?



If you have other iems with 2 pin (or might consider buying another). I think it's a good decision. 

The plug in the pro version is detachable so you really can buy the QDC version and the 0.75 pin. At least that's what I did when I wanted to use AS10.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ZAXon 7 said:


> for me the difference between flac and mp3 is clearly audible, my guess is that the way software player handles them and in general the software role and weight in the chain is very underestimated.
> after all from a flac to a 320kbps mp3 about 30% of data gets lost, if it can't be heard there must be a flaw in the chain.



That's not even remotely how that would work. 30% of the data may be lost (and actually a FLAC is 1411kbps so it's more like 23% of data is _kept_) but in terms of fidelity the ear is physically limited to how much it's capable of discerning and when you're talking about 320,000 steps per second that's not an audible loss. It's just not. It'd be like if a 27" screen went from 16K to 8K. Yeah, you're using a quarter the pixels but your eye is NOT going to be able to tell. 

There are two arguments that get supremely tiresome on here and one of them is the lossless placebo BS, because it ends up with people thinking they can't enjoy Spotify or Apple Music because it's "lower quality" and that without lossless there's something going on that they can't hear when that's emphatically incorrect. The only time anyone ever hears a difference is Tidal's snake oil comparison because they're trying to sell the HiFi membership. 

I've had people take bitrate tests on multi-thousand dollar rigs and not only can't they tell, sometimes people end up picking a 128kbps as the one that "sounds best". If you sit and squint and listen in a rock solid room with a song you know incredibly well and just listen to the two over and over and over again you might be able to tell that there's a difference between the 320 and the lossless file, but you are NEVER going to be able to reliably pick which is which. Moreover, if you were listening to an album and it just randomly flipped from lossless to 320, you would never have any clue. 

The modern MP3 codec goes transparent around 320kbps, AAC and Vorbis lower than that. If you prefer to have lossless for the psychological boost, that is 100% cool. I keep a Tidal membership just for that purpose. Sometimes you want the satisfaction of knowing that there's nothing missing in your music. But don't spread misinformation that it's audible.


----------



## whitete

guido said:


> Which connectors did you get for the ZAX?


.75mm C pin.


----------



## ZAXon 7

SomeGuyDude said:


> That's not even remotely how that would work. 30% of the data may be lost (and actually a FLAC is 1411kbps so it's more like 23% of data is _kept_) but in terms of fidelity the ear is physically limited to how much it's capable of discerning and when you're talking about 320,000 steps per second that's not an audible loss. It's just not. It'd be like if a 27" screen went from 16K to 8K. Yeah, you're using a quarter the pixels but your eye is NOT going to be able to tell.
> 
> There are two arguments that get supremely tiresome on here and one of them is the lossless placebo BS, because it ends up with people thinking they can't enjoy Spotify or Apple Music because it's "lower quality" and that without lossless there's something going on that they can't hear when that's emphatically incorrect. The only time anyone ever hears a difference is Tidal's snake oil comparison because they're trying to sell the HiFi membership.
> 
> ...



only for the pleasure of exchanging opinions from different points of view, i must say that i have too little experience with speakers as i almost only use headphones and zax on my phone (axon7 mini) so i can't speak about room tests, but when it comes to the equipment i'm used to, i just spot a lossy file 'defects' even on music never heard before. On the other side I've never been able to spot any difference between a flac 44/16 and a hi-res flac or even a sacd. Of course the they depend also on the recording/mixing quality and on the song but nonetheless they are real.

There are a lot of steps from the file to the ear. Given that on this forum the hardware side of the chain is more than adeguate i suggest that the 'problem' lies on the software side, and mainly on the player used. Of course if i use the stock android player or any other player designed to be run on cheap devices i will never spot the difference, but when i use an hi-fi player like neutron or foobar or, much better, onkyo hf player (with which i'm not affiliated in any way) the differences becomes immediately evident, and they become even more evident if i use high quality sound enhancement software like viper4android to which a lossless file reacts much better than a lossy one.

i've raised this issue a couple of times before but with no interest from the other headfiers so i had no idea that it was so delicate (the other one is cables i guess), but i would really like to know how many people here spend time fine tuning the software side of their chain and with which results. Of course the final setup will be a matter of synergy between components and personal tastes but different setups can completely change the listening experience.


----------



## voicemaster

The problem is when people upsampling a 128kbps mp3 to 320kbps mp3. That actually make it sound worse.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ZAXon 7 said:


> only for the pleasure of exchanging opinions from different points of view, i must say that i have too little experience with speakers as i almost only use headphones and zax on my phone (axon7 mini) so i can't speak about room tests, but when it comes to the equipment i'm used to, i just spot a lossy file 'defects' even on music never heard before. On the other side I've never been able to spot any difference between a flac 44/16 and a hi-res flac or even a sacd. Of course the they depend also on the recording/mixing quality and on the song but nonetheless they are real.
> 
> There are a lot of steps from the file to the ear. Given that on this forum the hardware side of the chain is more than adeguate i suggest that the 'problem' lies on the software side, and mainly on the player used. Of course if i use the stock android player or any other player designed to be run on cheap devices i will never spot the difference, but when i use an hi-fi player like neutron or foobar or, much better, onkyo hf player (with which i'm not affiliated in any way) the differences becomes immediately evident, and they become even more evident if i use high quality sound enhancement software like viper4android to which a lossless file reacts much better than a lossy one.
> 
> i've raised this issue a couple of times before but with no interest from the other headfiers so i had no idea that it was so delicate (the other one is cables i guess), but i would really like to know how many people here spend time fine tuning the software side of their chain and with which results. Of course the final setup will be a matter of synergy between components and personal tastes but different setups can completely change the listening experience.



If you're claiming to be hearing lossless vs 320 on a phone with the ZAX my skepticism is now large enough to terrify the residents of Tokyo.

That said, you're running these tests when you know what the files are. You're aware of which is which so you're convincing yourself these differences exist. You're getting a placebo effect.

That's really all there is to it. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's not different perspectives. In every blind ABX test, people don't fare better than random choice. But of course people who rip their own files and introduce psychological biases as well as codec questions will always swear up and down that they can hear it.

If you want to continue believing that you can totally hear the different on ChiFi headphones through phone apps that are literally _altering the source file, _then have at it, but just be aware that it's smoke and mirrors.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SomeGuyDude said:


> If you're claiming to be hearing lossless vs 320 on a phone with the ZAX my skepticism is now large enough to terrify the residents of Tokyo.
> 
> That said, you're running these tests when you know what the files are. You're aware of which is which so you're convincing yourself these differences exist. You're getting a placebo effect.
> 
> ...


This is the KZ thread, right?
(Surely this subject should be in "science thread", where I personally discovered more opionated people than science...)

Two points:
1. What are the physical reasons that "Chi-Fi" (or any IEM for that matter) would be worse than room speakers?? What about near-field vs. far-field resoution?
Then some KZ with their cheerful treble are actually acutely sensitive to overtones and fast attacks to probe compression losses.
In other words, IEMs should be much better monitors than "room speakers" no matter how well calibrated.

2. It has been clearly stated in the claim by @ZAXon 7  that the software processing is involved; mp3 are known to be lossy and thus are largely not suitable for post-processing. This alone gives the valid legitimate reason to distinguish mp3 from lossless files.


----------



## artatgray

Gummybuns said:


> It did eliminate the "muddiness" and became more open per se. There's still trade offs on the AutoEQ. Still like ASX with or without it. On Wavelet it works best is you set the reverb setting in "plate" AutoEQ on or off still sounds great.
> 
> On a side note. The AutoEQ of AS16 is a bit weird. AS16, although the stage is in front, has a bit of a "breathing room" when the EQ applied the stage is cramped. Weird. Lol.



If I could be bothered making sense of that word salad, I'd respond.


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Feb 1, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> If you're claiming to be hearing lossless vs 320 on a phone with the ZAX my skepticism is now large enough to terrify the residents of Tokyo.
> 
> That said, you're running these tests when you know what the files are. You're aware of which is which so you're convincing yourself these differences exist. You're getting a placebo effect.
> 
> ...



well, the axon has a dedicated AKM AK4962 HiFi dac, so it's not simply a phone and it's not my first phone, i've had some with dedicated dac and some without and i've used a pioneer dap, so on that side i can make some comparisons and, of course, on phones without dedicated dac or cheap mp3 players i can't hear any difference.

what's a matter of fact to me is that if you rip more than a half of the data from a file it cannot sound the same as the lossless file on the same hw/sw chain and the higher is the level of the chain the more this must be true.

it's probably true that a blind test with an equipment one is not familiar with, as good as it can be, produces random results, but hearing the differences on a familiar equipment is not incompatible with that. both things are true to me.

it's also true that software players have their own sound signature, dynamics, soundstage and resolution exactly as iem's have (that is they do make choices about how to reproduce a source like any other component of the chain) and that sound enhancement software alters the source, but the way the source reacts to these choices and alterations is precisely what exposes the difference between lossy and lossless.


----------



## cappuchino

So the EDX is selling for 4.64 USD right now. Is it still relevant in 2021?


----------



## cappuchino

-duplicate post-


----------



## Slater

sub30 said:


> So the EDX is selling for 4.64 USD right now. Is it still relevant in 2021?



Link?


----------



## astermk

sub30 said:


> So the EDX is selling for 4.64 USD right now. Is it still relevant in 2021?


I'm unable to find it lower than $7.75. Where is this?


----------



## cappuchino (Feb 1, 2021)

Shopee, mates. An online marketplace available to those living in SEA. That price is for the mic'd one.

https://shopee.ph/product/64655310/5251330154?smtt=0.174314985-1612226504.9

@Slater and @astermk


----------



## chinmie

ZAXon 7 said:


> after all from a flac to a 320kbps mp3 about 30% of data gets lost, if it can't be heard there must be a flaw in the chain.



the way it "cuts out" the data is by eliminating audio data outside the hearing spectrum, and also when selecting which data inside the human hearing spectrum, it would prioritize the loudest/more audible sound and cut out the softer sound. 

that's why the lower the bitrate, the more "chopped off" the farthest lower and higher frequencies, and also the more squashed up the dynamics would be. 

also why it's easier (at least for me) to spot the difference using songs with heavy emphasis on cymbals and string acoustic guitars. 

320kbps, it would be reeeeally hard to distinguish from lossless in listening only. 

so, by quoting PhonoPhi's:



PhonoPhi said:


> It has been clearly stated in the claim by @ZAXon 7 that the software processing is involved; mp3 are known to be lossy and thus are largely not suitable for post-processing. This alone gives the valid legitimate reason to distinguish mp3 from lossless files.



unless we are using that file for mixing/mastering purposes, or putting any DSP effects on them, then the difference between MP3 and Wav would matter because processing effects would have slight differences when applied to them. 

this also applies to other digital data compression for images and videos: for viewing on a certain device, a compressed file (to a certain point) would not matter and can't be distinguished from the uncompressed ones, but for the purpose of editing or processing, it's better to use the uncompressed file. 



voicemaster said:


> The problem is when people upsampling a 128kbps mp3 to 320kbps mp3. That actually make it sound worse.



yup, even bouncing the same 320kbps mp3 to 320kbps mp3 multiple times (or Wav for that matter) would eventually make it sound worse   



SomeGuyDude said:


> That's really all there is to it. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's not different perspectives. In every blind ABX test, people don't fare better than random choice. But of course people who rip their own files and introduce psychological biases as well as codec questions will always swear up and down that they can hear it.


https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

i remember "cheesing" this test when doing it  with my friends. i can guess all of the WAV correctly... simply by choosing which files load the longest to play 



PhonoPhi said:


> Then some KZ with their cheerful treble are actually acutely sensitive to overtones and fast attacks to probe compression losses.
> In other words, IEMs should be much better monitors than "room speakers" no matter how well calibrated.



yes, just like when using effects like EQs and compression in mixing sessions, i personally prefer using headphones/ IEMs than room speakers. 

The KZs and their "metalic sound signature" (or any similar sounding earphone) would technically be easier to spot compression losses than warmer sounding IEMs or speakers.


----------



## chinmie

sub30 said:


> Shopee, mates. An online marketplace available to those living in SEA. That price is for the mic'd one.
> 
> https://shopee.ph/product/64655310/5251330154?smtt=0.174314985-1612226504.9
> 
> @Slater and @astermk



lately i much prefer using Shopee than Aliexpress when ordering from China, because they seem to have their own shipping office here, so the items would arrive much faster, whereas stuffs from AE would be stuck in customs much longer. 

also they sometimes have items that even lower priced than AE's


----------



## PhonoPhi

chinmie said:


> the way it "cuts out" the data is by eliminating audio data outside the hearing spectrum, and also when selecting which data inside the human hearing spectrum, it would prioritize the loudest/more audible sound and cut out the softer sound.
> 
> that's why the lower the bitrate, the more "chopped off" the farthest lower and higher frequencies, and also the more squashed up the dynamics would be.
> 
> ...


That is exactly the point that all parametric equalizing and more advanced software processing is much better with lossless than mp3.


----------



## G777 (Feb 1, 2021)

Been going back and forth between this and the CCA C10. The DQ6 beats the C10 in pretty much every way (looks, build quality) except for times when I prefer warmer sound of the C10.

Edit: I've noticed that the soundstage on the C10 feels significantly wider than that of the DQ6. I think I'm starting to lean more towards the C10 now.    They're both great either way.


----------



## IEMusic

chinmie said:


> the way it "cuts out" the data is by eliminating audio data outside the hearing spectrum, and also when selecting which data inside the human hearing spectrum, it would prioritize the loudest/more audible sound and cut out the softer sound.
> 
> that's why the lower the bitrate, the more "chopped off" the farthest lower and higher frequencies, and also the more squashed up the dynamics would be.
> 
> ...


Like with digital photography, and keeping RAW files to process initially, then making further adjustments/manipulations in an uncompressed format rather than converting to JPEG, and adjusting the compressed file.

But, I‘m lazy so I mostly use OOC JPEGs  , but I’m not a pro photographer/graphic designer either.

Choose the format that makes the most sense for you individually.

I can‘t wait for my DQ6 to arrive.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

ZAXon 7 said:


> well, the axon has a dedicated AKM AK4962 HiFi dac, so it's not simply a phone and it's not my first phone, i've had some with dedicated dac and some without and i've used a pioneer dap, so on that side i can make some comparisons and, of course, on phones without dedicated dac or cheap mp3 players i can't hear any difference.
> 
> what's a matter of fact to me is that if you rip more than a half of the data from a file it cannot sound the same as the lossless file on the same hw/sw chain and the higher is the level of the chain the more this must be true.
> 
> ...



I can tell you just really, really want to think you can hear the difference, and that's the point I suppose. It's a placebo. The placebo makes you happy, so keep on enjoying it in that regard. A significant portion of this hobby is the psychological aspect, so if you get more enjoyment out of it by convincing yourself that you can hear a difference, then keep on with that. 

You, like many others in this thread and others, are less interested in the reality of things and more interested in what you want them to be, and frankly I am exceptionally tired of the argument. You throw out complete and utter nonsense about "well if so many bits are lost, it MUST be audible!!" even though there is literally no reason for that to be the case if you have even the faintest idea of what those bits are and what they represent. A poster above starts talking about "squashed dynamics" and other total BS buzzwords that we often see in audiophiles who think they can win an argument by just bloviating.

This notion that "it cannot sound the same as the lossless file" that you say as though it's true by fiat is just exemplary of the problem. You have no reason to believe that beyond just thinking it instinctively. Why wouldn't it sound the same? What, from a mechanical standpoint, is preventing it from sounding the same to a set of human ears that have a physical limit to what they are able to discern when it comes to space between wavelengths?

There is no reason for that.

It's all hokum. It's complete nonsense, and it gets maddening watching defenses of it come out that are only a level above word salad, just saying random handfuls of vaguely technical sounding jargon in the hopes of being convincing. 

Apparently it's "true to you" and if that makes you happy, then keep on keepin' on. Apparently there's nothing that's going to convince you away from it because by gum you just really love the idea that you have the world's most magical ears that can hear something on cheap equipment that no one else can hear even on TOTL gear. So okay. To you and the other poster, I raise the white flag. I'm exhausted. You're wrong, you're as wrong as all those people insisting their $500 cables make a difference and that burn-in exists.

This hobby is jam-packed with complete BS that people just repeat over and over again and it seems there's no sense in fighting against it, so I'm out. People want to believe in the smoke and mirrors, and all I can try to do is offer some grounded sense to prevent others from falling victim to it.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 2, 2021)

SomeGuyDude said:


> I can tell you just really, really want to think you can hear the difference, and that's the point I suppose. It's a placebo. The placebo makes you happy, so keep on enjoying it in that regard. A significant portion of this hobby is the psychological aspect, so if you get more enjoyment out of it by convincing yourself that you can hear a difference, then keep on with that.
> 
> You, like many others in this thread and others, are less interested in the reality of things and more interested in what you want them to be, and frankly I am exceptionally tired of the argument. You throw out complete and utter nonsense about "well if so many bits are lost, it MUST be audible!!" even though there is literally no reason for that to be the case if you have even the faintest idea of what those bits are and what they represent. A poster above starts talking about "squashed dynamics" and other total BS buzzwords that we often see in audiophiles who think they can win an argument by just bloviating.
> 
> ...


Again, in all this lengthy post, so typical of "the science warriors", you opted to conveniently ignore the fact (very inconvenient for your arguments) that if one post-process mp3 files, such as using parametric equalizers, then the compressed file optimized to "sound as great", but not to be processed, can show the limitations.

Then it seems that your arguments may not be about any objectivity, but just to justify your subjective use of mp3 and being comfortable about it based on some conveniently selected arguments.


----------



## ZAXon 7

SomeGuyDude said:


> I can tell you just really, really want to think you can hear the difference, and that's the point I suppose. It's a placebo. The placebo makes you happy, so keep on enjoying it in that regard. A significant portion of this hobby is the psychological aspect, so if you get more enjoyment out of it by convincing yourself that you can hear a difference, then keep on with that.
> 
> You, like many others in this thread and others, are less interested in the reality of things and more interested in what you want them to be, and frankly I am exceptionally tired of the argument. You throw out complete and utter nonsense about "well if so many bits are lost, it MUST be audible!!" even though there is literally no reason for that to be the case if you have even the faintest idea of what those bits are and what they represent. A poster above starts talking about "squashed dynamics" and other total BS buzzwords that we often see in audiophiles who think they can win an argument by just bloviating.
> 
> ...



i just can't count the times i debated this subject from your point of view before joining the lossless side of the force... it started in the past millenium, in the age of napster...

anyway following your line, one could take a cd, rip it to 320 mp3, the use those mp3 to burn a new cd and obtain two identically sounding cd, right?


----------



## unifutomaki (Feb 2, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> Again, in all this lengthy post, so typical of "the science warriors", you opted to conveniently ignore the fact (very inconvenient for your arguments) that if one post-process mp3 files, such as using parametric equalizers, then the compressed file optimized to "sound as great", but not to be processed, can show the limitations.
> 
> Then it seems that your arguments may not be about any objectivity, but just to justify your subjective use of mp3 and being comfortable about it based on some conveniently selected arguments.



I blame KZ for the devolvement of this thread into lossless bickering. It must be that they haven't released a new sidegrade in a while, so everyone is bored while waiting for the next thing. We of Head-Fi demand more 2hr battery TWS sets, KZ!

Also, I only listen to music on my mid-fi DAP so that I can upsample all my rando MP3s to sound like hi-freakin-res files with the magical technology known as DSEE HX. I also toggle the "DC Phase Linearizer" just so, which emulates the low frequency response of an analogue amplifier. When the mood calls for it, I even stack the Vinyl Simulator on top of all the previous DSP. Of an MP3 file. And then I sit back and remark to myself, "DAT SOUND GUD"!!!!

So sue me.


----------



## PhonoPhi

unifutomaki said:


> I blame KZ for the devolvement of this thread into lossless bickering. It must be that they haven't released a new sidegrade in a while, so everyone is bored while waiting for the next thing. We of Head-Fi demand more 2hr battery TWS sets, KZ!
> 
> Also, I only listen to music on my mid-fi DAP so that I can upsample all my rando MP3s to sound like hi-freakin-res files with the magical technology known as DSEE HX. I also toggle the "DC Phase Linearizer" just so, which emulates the low frequency response of an analogue amplifier. When the mood calls for it, I even stack the Vinyl Simulator on top of all the previous DSP. Of an MP3 file. And then I sit back and remark to myself, "DAT SOUND GUD"!!!!
> 
> So sue me.


Absolutely, KZs make music sound great no matter what  

I also use automatic upsampling and it works great. With the recent codecs, problems are minimal.
Recently starting to use MSEB, I just noticed they are possible in the extremes of heavy processing.

So the legal action is not for those who are enjoying their music (especially with KZ) but only reserved for those who try to teach others and impose their opinions by regurgitating old mantras without fully realizing their limitations.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 2, 2021)

P. S. Any knowledge is limited, only stupidity is infinite!
(Oops, not to be meant as a separate post, well... my stupidity )


----------



## RyuzakiL26

Been awhile since I've checked this thread and it seems there's a heated argument with lossless vs lossy. My take for this topic is that due to KZs awesome lineup, I can recognize/hear one from the other - without actively looking into my music player. Been an avid listener of MP3 ripped tracks from Wav, using LAME, and I can recognize its shortcoming upon switching to FLAC. The only lossy format I had hard time to judge is the OPUS ones maybe because its the real successor to MP3 and the SQ they produce rivals the known lossless audio formats. 

In the meantime, looks like I just found a worthy successor to my KZ ZAX in the form of Penon Fan (got unlucky with the build quality though at least the SQ hasn't been affected) 😅. KZ DQ6 looks interesting maybe I'll buy it if there's another sale going on in Shopee, same is true for AS12 and BA10. 😎


----------



## Bluewolfgd

Hi I new here I been using kz zs10 pro and kz zax with hidizs s9 kz zax sound better with tidal


----------



## Jitu13

Hello everyone, just getting more, and more into the rabbit hole. I started with the VK4 last may, now I have 6 earphones (3 buds, 3 iem). 3 are on the way, blon, zs10 pro, and edx are among them. As you can see I am venturing into the 20-30$ range now (next stop 50$-100$). Just wondering whether dq6 would be worth it for me. Or else, I will go for ckx, ssr, and fiio fd1 at a later time.

As for my preference, I haven't found one yet. On one hand, I still enjoy my vk4 (most bassy in my collection, also the warmest). On the other hand, I also enjoy my timmkoo c630 too, which would be on the opposite end of the vk4 in my collection. That's why I want to diversify more if possible.


----------



## noobandroid (Feb 3, 2021)

finally my kz aptx hd arrived, and pair it up with my kz as10, with the note 10 plus + wavelet 30% as10 profiling eq, it sounds "fun" on trivium's new album in mqa, too bad note only has aptx and not the HD, but at least some leeway

too bad the volume jump is from "very quiet" to "TOO MUCH" in just one volume step, like a low gain jump to high gain


----------



## SybilLance

G777 said:


> Been going back and forth between this and the CCA C10. The DQ6 beats the C10 in pretty much every way (looks, build quality) except for times when I prefer warmer sound of the C10.
> 
> Edit: I've noticed that the soundstage on the C10 feels significantly wider than that of the DQ6. I think I'm starting to lean more towards the C10 now.    They're both great either way.



I haven't bought any new KZ/CCA in-ears since the CCA C12. However I've gotten some SpinFit CP360 tips and at least in my case and particularly for the C12, they turned out to be perfect Goldilocks tips. The Large 360s with the soft silicone ensure that ideal seal which results in an optimum bass response for the C12 while attenuating that upper mid and that treble region with the extra energy to erase any "shoutiness" and brightness. Note I have small ears with smallish meatus.

Intrigued, I bought inexpensive generic soft silicone wide-bore tips (L) from a seller in shopee.ph hoping it would do the same for the C10 as the CP360s did for the C12. They did, in the sense that the C10 became truly comfortable. And of course I'm simply marveling at the bass resonance, the natural mids and the smooth yet somehow detailed, resolving treble that I strove to write about several long pages back. No harshness, no purported "metallic" KZ hybrid timbre. So, whenever I intend to settle down for long multiple-album listening sessions, I reach for the C10. 

Stay Cool, Keep Safe!


----------



## G777

noobandroid said:


> finally my kz aptx hd arrived, and pair it up with my kz as10, with the note 10 plus + wavelet 30% as10 profiling eq, it sounds "fun" on trivium's new album in mqa, too bad note only has aptx and not the HD, but at least some leeway
> 
> too bad the volume jump is from "very quiet" to "TOO MUCH" in just one volume step, like a low gain jump to high gain


Have you tried the "Sound Assistant" app for your Note 10? You can download it from the Galaxy Store and it lets you adjust the size of each volume step (along with some other useful features). Not sure if that affects the volume of the bluetooth device though.


----------



## RCracer777

Just got my BA10's in. So far I'm liking the sound. They sound good out of the box, great sound stage, imaging and good coherency. Not too sure yet about the bass but this is my first all BA so I'm not used to it.

But that fitment... definitely not the most comfortable IEM I have to put it lightly. It irritates on a few points but we'll see what it'll be like after a few days after my ears have adjusted a bit. Might get better over time or this I going to be one of those that I'll listen to every once in a while for short periods at a time.


----------



## Nimweth

RCracer777 said:


> Just got my BA10's in. So far I'm liking the sound. They sound good out of the box, great sound stage, imaging and good coherency. Not too sure yet about the bass but this is my first all BA so I'm not used to it.
> 
> But that fitment... definitely not the most comfortable IEM I have to put it lightly. It irritates on a few points but we'll see what it'll be like after a few days after my ears have adjusted a bit. Might get better over time or this I going to be one of those that I'll listen to every once in a while for short periods at a time.


That's good to hear. The BA10's bass is one of the best implementations of the 22955, somewhat DD like. As far as fit is concerned it's worth doing a bit of tip rolling, I actually ended up with the medium Starlines supplied with the BA10!


----------



## RCracer777

Nimweth said:


> That's good to hear. The BA10's bass is one of the best implementations of the 22955, somewhat DD like. As far as fit is concerned it's worth doing a bit of tip rolling, I actually ended up with the medium Starlines supplied with the BA10!


Not sure what tip rolling (or cable rolling) means, I haven't been in this hobby long but my educated guess is trying different types of tips (cables).

The KZ Medium Starlines generally is the best fit for me and I do get a decent seal. But it's the body of the IEM in combination with my weird right ear that is the problem. The extended bit for the socket pinches my tragus (that small flap in front of the ear canal) on both sides and on the right every corner puts some pressure on the antihelix (the rim that the IEM's rest in). If tips help with the pinching I'll see what I've got that I can try but I'm not sure if it will.


----------



## wopossum

Speaking of tips, I always think what if KZ actually designed their Starline tips to be reversed? And we're just here to discover that like a little secret behind the scenes. Don't get too serious though I'm just joking. Hope you guys are doing great.


----------



## Nimweth

RCracer777 said:


> Not sure what tip rolling (or cable rolling) means, I haven't been in this hobby long but my educated guess is trying different types of tips (cables).
> 
> The KZ Medium Starlines generally is the best fit for me and I do get a decent seal. But it's the body of the IEM in combination with my weird right ear that is the problem. The extended bit for the socket pinches my tragus (that small flap in front of the ear canal) on both sides and on the right every corner puts some pressure on the antihelix (the rim that the IEM's rest in). If tips help with the pinching I'll see what I've got that I can try but I'm not sure if it will.


Yes, your educated guess was correct. I am lucky regarding the BA10 to have fairly large ears so do not have a problem with discomfort. Perhaps a longer tip may give you a good seal and just move the body of the IEMs away from the problem area.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

wopossum said:


> Speaking of tips, I always think what if KZ actually designed their Starline tips to be reversed? And we're just here to discover that like a little secret behind the scenes. Don't get too serious though I'm just joking. Hope you guys are doing great.


Reversing those tips is actually a well-known mod! 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-or-fliptips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/


----------



## Alpha Whale (Feb 3, 2021)

I have to say, I am really enjoying the DQ6. It's one of KZ's best DD sets.


That said, the CCA CKX has been ordered.

One silver and one black.








Silver CKX and upgrade cable.








Black CKX and upgrade cable.






















RCracer777 said:


> Just got my BA10's in. So far I'm liking the sound.
> 
> But that fitment... definitely not the most comfortable IEM I have to put it lightly. It irritates on a few points but we'll see what it'll be like after a few days after my ears have adjusted a bit. Might get better over time or this I going to be one of those that I'll listen to every once in a while for short periods at a time.



The secret to getting a good fit with the BA10 is to chop the collar off of the eartip sizes you'll never use and use them as spacers. The collar will keep the eartip sitting near the end of the nozzle which keeps the BA10 corners from touching your ears.

Then make sure you have a great seal so you can hear that glorious bass.

Enjoy


----------



## noobandroid

G777 said:


> Have you tried the "Sound Assistant" app for your Note 10? You can download it from the Galaxy Store and it lets you adjust the size of each volume step (along with some other useful features). Not sure if that affects the volume of the bluetooth device though.


yes i have but didn't influence volume,  it still goes 79 quite to 80 explosion


----------



## tgx78

Love the BA10. 
BA bass done right


----------



## Senabuna

Good day everyone,
I've been wondering regarding the longevity of the pins that are on these IEMs, mainly the 0.78m 2pins, 0,75mm 2pins, and MMCX. I am unsure as to which thread I should ask this to but decided to ask it in the KZ one since it has the most posts, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, I'm rather new here.
Aight, so how exactly 'robust' are these connectors? I for the time being only have one IEM with 0.78mm connector and been changing it between the bluetooth module and the cable that it came with, what are the chances of it getting too loose due to being changed over and over again?
Thank you and have a good day.


----------



## baskingshark (Feb 4, 2021)

Senabuna said:


> Good day everyone,
> I've been wondering regarding the longevity of the pins that are on these IEMs, mainly the 0.78m 2pins, 0,75mm 2pins, and MMCX. I am unsure as to which thread I should ask this to but decided to ask it in the KZ one since it has the most posts, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, I'm rather new here.
> Aight, so how exactly 'robust' are these connectors? I for the time being only have one IEM with 0.78mm connector and been changing it between the bluetooth module and the cable that it came with, what are the chances of it getting too loose due to being changed over and over again?
> Thank you and have a good day.



I would say MMCX are generally less robust than two pin types. I've not had issues with 2 pin cables so far in my IEM journey, but always with MMCX. Especially if you do frequent changing or cables or bluetooth adapters. The female part of the MMCX may get loose and it starts spinning like a windvane and loose connection intermittently. Other times the MMCX comes so tight that u need pliers or a tool to disconnect it.

MMCX come in various grades though, from cheap ones that cost a dollar or less, to higher quality ones that are way more expensive. As expected, a lot of budget chifi incorporate the cheaper MMCX inside, so that can be a potential source of failure compared to higher quality MMCX.

I would suggest for MMCX types, just leave a favourite cable on the IEM and avoid frequent cable changing if possible.


2 pin connectors come with their own issues. Such as different variants - 0.75 mm vs 0.78 mm, angled vs straight, recessed vs protruding, QDC/TFZ etc. They are more sturdy than MMCX to me at least, but compatibility is sometimes an issue.

I've had some audiophile friends that snapped the 2 pin off inside the IEM housing or had cracked 2 pin housing at the female side, but for myself haven't experienced 2 pin issues so far.


----------



## Senabuna

baskingshark said:


> I would say MMCX are generally less robust than two pin types. I've not had issues with 2 pin cables so far in my IEM journey, but always with MMCX. Especially if you do frequent changing or cables or bluetooth adapters. The female part of the MMCX may get loose and it starts spinning like a windvane and loose connection intermittently. Other times the MMCX comes so tight that u need pliers or a tool to disconnect it.
> 
> MMCX come in various grades though, from cheap ones that cost a dollar or less, to higher quality ones that are way more expensive. As expected, a lot of budget chifi incorporate the cheaper MMCX inside, so that can be a potential source of failure compared to higher quality MMCX.
> 
> ...


I see, thank you for the reply.
I was thinking of getting a new IEM so I can have one for daily listening (cabled) and the old one for sport activities (with the bluetooth module), but seeing the 2 pin doesn't seem to have an issue that the MMCX one has, I guess I will be holding on my purchase on a new IEM.


----------



## baskingshark

Senabuna said:


> I see, thank you for the reply.
> I was thinking of getting a new IEM so I can have one for daily listening (cabled) and the old one for sport activities (with the bluetooth module), but seeing the 2 pin doesn't seem to have an issue that the MMCX one has, I guess I will be holding on my purchase on a new IEM.



Just get a 2 pin IEM then. Or maybe buy two cheap iems, one dedicated to listening and one dedicated to sports, so you won't need to swap stuff.

There's cheap KZs like EDX that have quite good reviews and are relatively affordable. I think u can get two for $12 usd, just skip a restaurant meal for music bliss!


----------



## Senabuna

baskingshark said:


> Just get a 2 pin IEM then. Or maybe buy two cheap iems, one dedicated to listening and one dedicated to sports, so you won't need to swap stuff.
> 
> There's cheap KZs like EDX that have quite good reviews and are relatively affordable. I think u can get two for $12 usd, just skip a restaurant meal for music bliss!


Aye I, I've seen plenty of positive reviews on the likes of KZ EDX and the others, but it's unfortunate that the KZs uses 0.75mm pin instead of the 0.78mm, since I already have cables and bluetooth module for the 0.78mm (I own a TFZ Exclusive 1). But I will get them for gifts to my friends, and I have to check these gifts first, which mean I can try them out


----------



## unifutomaki (Feb 4, 2021)

Senabuna said:


> Aye I, I've seen plenty of positive reviews on the likes of KZ EDX and the others, but it's unfortunate that the KZs uses 0.75mm pin instead of the 0.78mm, since I already have cables and bluetooth module for the 0.78mm (I own a TFZ Exclusive 1). But I will get them for gifts to my friends, and I have to check these gifts first, which mean I can try them out



0.75mm and 0.78 mm really doesn't make a difference. I can assure you that their manufacturing tolerances are not precise to 0.01 of an mm.

I've been using 0.75mm cables with 0.78mm IEMs and vice-versa since forever. Everything works as it should and nothing has broken.


----------



## Senabuna

unifutomaki said:


> 0.75mm and 0.78 mm really doesn't make a difference. I can assure you that their manufacturing tolerances are not precise to 0.01 of an mm.
> 
> I've been using 0.75mm cables with 0.78mm IEMs and vice-versa since forever. Everything works as it should and nothing has broken.


Ooh now that you mention it, it's interesting to try that out once I get my hands on one of the KZs


----------



## BubisUK

unifutomaki said:


> 0.75mm and 0.78 mm really doesn't make a difference. I can assure you that their manufacturing tolerances are not precise to 0.01 of an mm.
> 
> I've been using 0.75mm cables with 0.78mm IEMs and vice-versa since forever. Everything works as it should and nothing has broken.


I can confirm the same, I always use 0.78mm 2Pin cables on all IEM's without any problems or anything braking 👍


----------



## Senabuna

unifutomaki said:


> 0.75mm and 0.78 mm really doesn't make a difference. I can assure you that their manufacturing tolerances are not precise to 0.01 of an mm.
> 
> I've been using 0.75mm cables with 0.78mm IEMs and vice-versa since forever. Everything works as it should and nothing has broken.


Could you perhaps tell us what cables you're using that are used interchangeably between 0.78mm & 0.75mm, and what are the IEMs that are able to do so


----------



## RCracer777

Alpha Whale said:


> The secret to getting a good fit with the BA10 is to chop the collar off of the eartip sizes you'll never use and use them as spacers. The collar will keep the eartip sitting near the end of the nozzle which keeps the BA10 corners from touching your ears.
> 
> Then make sure you have a great seal so you can hear that glorious bass.


Thanks, this largely solved the problem. Now it's just getting used to their weird shape.


----------



## BubisUK

Senabuna said:


> Could you perhaps tell us what cables you're using that are used interchangeably between 0.78mm & 0.75mm, and what are the IEMs that are able to do so


All IEM's I have ever used that had 2 Pin conectors were used with 0.78mm, look at my signature for the list of my ex gear. The difference between the 0.78mm and 0.75mm is 0.03mm do you really think this width makes a real difference and would brake a connector?


----------



## RikudouGoku

BubisUK said:


> All IEM's I have ever used that had 2 Pin conectors were used with 0.78mm, look at my signature for the list of my ex gear. The difference between the 0.78mm and 0.75mm is 0.03mm do you really think this width makes a real difference and would brake a connector?


With chifi qc, It wouldn't be a surprise if those 0.75mm were actually 0.78mm lol.


----------



## BubisUK

RikudouGoku said:


> With chifi qc, It wouldn't be a surprise if those 0.75mm were actually 0.78mm lol.


I wouldn't be surprised if they would sell the same wire as 0.78 and 0.75 just for more profits 😃


----------



## PhonoPhi

BubisUK said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they would sell the same wire as 0.78 and 0.75 just for more profits 😃


I bought two pairs of 0.75 and 0.78 TRN cables (2-pin and QDC) - no any differences I could detect visually or by trying with different IEMs. 
On one of 0.78 cables, the metal connectors were sligtly spread apart to feel wider  After connecting to 0.75 socket, they became normal 

Also I happy to report that the plastic on new KZ QDC (paragraph C) connectors seems to be much better; before the plastic could crack easily, now in ASX it took quite a bit of change/usage without the problems.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

I am now torn between 2 KZs, DQ6 and BA10. Both very much are in my sweet sonic zone but confused on which one should I bet on first. I've never had an all BA set although I've had a few multi-BA hybrids but few of them have steely timbre. I've got a bunch of DDs in my collection and I'm now sort of suffering from DD overkill 😄 But DQ6 impressions are too hard to ignore at the moment. Learned folks of the forum, please guide me.


----------



## G777

Dani157 said:


> I am now torn between 2 KZs, DQ6 and BA10. Both very much are in my sweet sonic zone but confused on which one should I bet on first. I've never had an all BA set although I've had a few multi-BA hybrids but few of them have steely timbre. I've got a bunch of DDs in my collection and I'm now sort of suffering from DD overkill 😄 But DQ6 impressions are too hard to ignore at the moment. Learned folks of the forum, please guide me.


I ordered the TRN BA5 as my first all-BA IEM. It's a bit cheaper than the BA10—in fact, I think you could buy both the BA5 and the DQ6 for the price of a BA10.

It should be arriving tomorrow, so I'll give an update on my impressions once I get them.


----------



## Jitu13

Just got my zs10 pro and edx today. These are my first iems from kz. Surprisingly, zs10 pro is warmer than edx. I felt edx bass was more controlled than zs10 pro. Is it how it should be!!??? Of course I started listening an hour ago, maybe my impression will change after I go through enough of my collections.


----------



## unifutomaki (Feb 4, 2021)

Senabuna said:


> Could you perhaps tell us what cables you're using that are used interchangeably between 0.78mm & 0.75mm, and what are the IEMs that are able to do so



Stock KZ cables, all of my 2 pin IEMs with QDC sockets

NiceHCK C16-3 0.78mm, KBear limpid 0.78mm, TRN T2 0.78mm, all my KZ IEMs


----------



## StacoHRP

Jitu13 said:


> Just got my zs10 pro and edx today. These are my first iems from kz. Surprisingly, zs10 pro is warmer than edx. I felt edx bass was more controlled than zs10 pro. Is it how it should be!!??? Of course I started listening an hour ago, maybe my impression will change after I go through enough of my collections.



I don't have EDX but ZS10 PRO slightly elevated bass indeed making the sound profile a tad warm.
With Final E eartips it offers more controll and solid punch bass, also works to tam the lower treble.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Dani157 said:


> I am now torn between 2 KZs, DQ6 and BA10. Both very much are in my sweet sonic zone but confused on which one should I bet on first. I've never had an all BA set although I've had a few multi-BA hybrids but few of them have steely timbre. I've got a bunch of DDs in my collection and I'm now sort of suffering from DD overkill 😄 But DQ6 impressions are too hard to ignore at the moment. Learned folks of the forum, please guide me.


A hard choice between two quite different IEMs.

In favour of DQ6:
-- almost twice less expensive;
-- newer, actually still the most recent wired KZ;
-- great comfortable fit, especially vs. BA10
-- XUN DD that many were after.

For BA10:
-- all-BA sound, competent, one of the most balanced KZ;
-- BA bass is nicely implemented;
-- beautifully machined anodized aluminum shells;
-- great ear training, almost any IEM will fit after BA10 

Hard choice!
To me, AS10, which are warmer than BA10, but with a lot of similarities, is also a contender.


----------



## Jitu13

StacoHRP said:


> I don't have EDX but ZS10 PRO slightly elevated bass indeed making the sound profile a tad warm.
> With Final E eartips it offers more controll and solid punch bass, also works to tam the lower treble.


Oh, good to know. Better try out my other tips then.


----------



## courierdriver

BubisUK said:


> I can confirm the same, I always use 0.78mm 2Pin cables on all IEM's without any problems or anything braking 👍


Yup...+1. 0.78 works no problem on 0.75


----------



## Pelicampe

baskingshark said:


> There's cheap KZs like EDX that have quite good reviews and are relatively affordable. I think u can get two for $12 usd, just skip a restaurant meal for music bliss!



I'm just warning that EDXs are good IEMs for the price but that doesn't mean they're good either.
For a backup pair why not, but not for everyday use. They have a lot of flaws (precision, stage, isolation)

The QD6 are very much above! No hesitation between the two if the budget allows.


----------



## Pelicampe (Feb 5, 2021)

Dani157 said:


> I am now torn between 2 KZs, DQ6 and BA10. Both very much are in my sweet sonic zone but confused on which one should I bet on first. I've never had an all BA set although I've had a few multi-BA hybrids but few of them have steely timbre. I've got a bunch of DDs in my collection and I'm now sort of suffering from DD overkill 😄 But DQ6 impressions are too hard to ignore at the moment. Learned folks of the forum, please guide me.



DQ6 is a really good surprise for me 
Don't have time to make a mini review but is a good choice.
They are equilibred on all, I don't see any flaws or really little.

Just recently discover on a old Quincy Jones album with an enormous stage that QD6 are beaten by my C16. The last offert more space and depht.

But QD6 are a really enjoyable pair. When I 've got more time, try to compare with BL03 BL01 but I can immediatly say that the 2 Blon are overboosted bass compare to DQ6. Too much for me....


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

G777 said:


> I ordered the TRN BA5 as my first all-BA IEM. It's a bit cheaper than the BA10—in fact, I think you could buy both the BA5 and the DQ6 for the price of a BA10.
> 
> It should be arriving tomorrow, so I'll give an update on my impressions once I get them.



I want to stay away from TRN as much as I can. Have had really bad experience product wise with the brand. Out of my 4 purchases in last 18 months, only one is functional. Although, thanks for your suggestion.



PhonoPhi said:


> A hard choice between two quite different IEMs.
> 
> In favour of DQ6:
> -- almost twice less expensive;
> ...



Indeed. Your post is what I've been pondering all this while 😆 Unavailability of AliExpress is also another pain in bollocks to deal with.



Pelicampe said:


> DQ6 is a really good surprise for me
> Don't have time to make a mini review but is a good choice.
> They are equilibred on all, I don't see any flaws or really little.
> 
> ...



Yes. Will wait for your impressions.

I've got Sony MH 1 lined up as well so maybe I should go for BA10 now and DQ6 during some sale on Linsoul?


----------



## wopossum

Pelicampe said:


> Just recently discover on a old Quincy Jones album with an enormous stage that QD6 are beaten by my C16. The last offert more space and depht.



What's the name of the album? Just to use it as a point of reference.


----------



## Senabuna

Hey folks, how does an EDX compare to a TRN STM? I found a seller that's selling the STM at just $2 more than the EDX


----------



## paulwasabii

Senabuna said:


> Hey folks, how does an EDX compare to a TRN STM? I found a seller that's selling the STM at just $2 more than the EDX


I do like both, but at the same price point, I would take the STM.  For me, the EDX is $6usd and STM was $20usd IIRC.


----------



## Senabuna

paulwasabii said:


> I do like both, but at the same price point, I would take the STM.  For me, the EDX is $6usd and STM was $20usd IIRC.


I see, could you perhaps tell me what it's like between the two? since I'll be getting one of them, I'll be able to tell what the other one sounds like based on it


----------



## Senabuna

Ah sorry about the earlier post, my memory recollection went dum dum, it's actually the TRN ST1 and not the STM


----------



## lgcubana

*KZ DQ6*
(_just threw them in the oven, so no opinion on the playback yet_)





These are my 1st KZ with the bump (like the the ZSX) , that fits into the Helix Lock.  A little different action, in orienting the earphones for a good seal.  I'm more accustomed to doing about a 1/4 turn, to "screw" my IEMs in place, with my foam tips.  But the DQ6 does sit well


----------



## Pelicampe

Senabuna said:


> Ah sorry about the earlier post, my memory recollection went dum dum, it's actually the TRN ST1 and not the STM



 I've got them both. But my EDX is in my desk at work so can't answer right now.

I think that EDX is better than ST1 (from memory...)
ST1's BA is not well paired with the DD and be agressive.
If it is important for you, I can take my EDX monday at work for direct comparaison.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Feb 5, 2021)

Senabuna said:


> Ah sorry about the earlier post, my memory recollection went dum dum, it's actually the TRN ST1 and not the STM



ST1 is a poor imitation of ZSN. EDX despite being a DD is fairly competent at that price point. Between the two, I'd take EDX any day because it still has that KZ fun factor and fit is excellent as well. With some snug fitting tips (if you don't prefer foam tips i.e.) they sound very good as lower mids gain some prominence and the brightness up top is slightly tamed. ST1 sounds very steely to me and have barely used them 5-6 times in last year or so.

Pros of EDX -

Snug fit
Fun signature (very similar to yesteryear's budget KZs)
Better connectivity as it uses standard 2-pin connectors

Pros of ST1 -

Better looking than EDX
Sonically it doesn't fare well against the EDX.


----------



## IEMusic

Just got the DQ6.  Initial impressions are very favorable.  I’m truly loving these tri-DD IEMs.


----------



## eclein

I own a ton of KZ and CCA IEMS and my favorites were BA10 and ZS10 PRO until I picked up a pair of Silver CKX IEMS! They are small, comfortable and sound phenomenal! I’m using a Tripowin balanced cable and SednaEarfitLight tips, These are very good and getting better and at the $79 I paid a steal!
They sound better or as good as units I own that cost 3-4 times as much. Do yourself a favor and look into the CKX!


----------



## TheVortex

eclein said:


> I own a ton of KZ and CCA IEMS and my favorites were BA10 and ZS10 PRO until I picked up a pair of Silver CKX IEMS! They are small, comfortable and sound phenomenal! I’m using a Tripowin balanced cable and SednaEarfitLight tips, These are very good and getting better and at the $79 I paid a steal!
> They sound better or as good as units I own that cost 3-4 times as much. Do yourself a favor and look into the CKX!



I have just got the CKX and they sound good but have only used them very briefly. I agree the CKX are so small considering the driver count.


----------



## rggz

Sorry if it's a repetitive question, but, has anyone compared the DQ6's bass to Z1? I do believe this XUN driver got famous in this TWS implementation and I'm wondering if the DQ6 can reproduce the same recipe aka good sub-bass extension and deep rumble. (looking for a fun set for electronic music) 

TIA!


----------



## IEMusic

rggz said:


> DQ6 can reproduce......good sub-bass extension and deep rumble.......for a fun set for electronic music


I can’t speak for the Z1, but I edited your comment.  It is a true statement.


----------



## Viber

noobandroid said:


> finally my kz aptx hd arrived, and pair it up with my kz as10, with the note 10 plus + wavelet 30% as10 profiling eq, it sounds "fun" on trivium's new album in mqa, too bad note only has aptx and not the HD, but at least some leeway
> 
> too bad the volume jump is from "very quiet" to "TOO MUCH" in just one volume step, like a low gain jump to high gain



See if this helps:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-15711392

I'm actually interested if they fixed this bug already!  i bought mine like 2 years ago.


----------



## Viber

eclein said:


> I own a ton of KZ and CCA IEMS and my favorites were BA10 and ZS10 PRO until I picked up a pair of Silver CKX IEMS!
> These are very good and getting better and at the $79 I paid a steal!



A steal for 79$? 
It's now 55$ , so i guess they're technically paying us to use it?


----------



## peskypesky

What are currently the best KZ under $15  (on AliExpress)?


----------



## unifutomaki

peskypesky said:


> What are currently the best KZ under $15  (on AliExpress)?



CCA CST


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

I've been testing my new DQ6 for a couple of days. Just light use so far.

I think the tuning is pretty good, closer to reality than some previous KZ designs. What strikes me the most, however, is the soundstage, transients, and percussion. There's pretty good separation and layering for a $27 IEM. But it's presented in a somewhat artificial fashion.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by the BLONs and the other DD IEMs with their lush, naturalistic presentation. There's a number of 'musical' IEMs out there, you know what I mean. What the DQ6 is doing, though, is selectively boosting certain types of sound. Percussion get a thuddy elevation, and I feel that a number of voices and instruments are being strategically placed so that I can hear them well. That's great, I can hear everything really well. But it isn't quite as natural as some of those IEMs that mush it all together like the BL-01. It's more like the CCA C10 [boosting vocals] and the TRN BA5 [boosting percussion]. It's 'colouring' the soundstage.

Now this is actually helpful for some genres. I'm enjoying metal with it more than with the BL-01/BL-05s. Gotta say the selective elevation of parts of the soundstage reminds me a little of the BL-05s.

There's also some bass rumble that's not so present in the BLONs. Again, it feels like an artificial 'layer' in the background, kind of like those waterfalls in old NES games. But it's got some rumble, yeah, approaching the V90. This combination of factors would make it really good for certain genres, just haven't figured out which. I obviously need more time with it, to figure out how the tuning stacks up to others. The overall sound is pretty open and powerful on my cheap AMP, so the DQ6 is probably good with many mobile devices.


----------



## paulwasabii

Dani157 said:


> ST1 is a poor imitation of ZSN. EDX despite being a DD is fairly competent at that price point. Between the two, I'd take EDX any day because it still has that KZ fun factor and fit is excellent as well. With some snug fitting tips (if you don't prefer foam tips i.e.) they sound very good as lower mids gain some prominence and the brightness up top is slightly tamed. ST1 sounds very steely to me and have barely used them 5-6 times in last year or so.
> 
> Pros of EDX -
> 
> ...



Yes, agree with this. The ST1 is a fun pair if you are  BA tolerant but I think the EDX is a better choice.


----------



## paulwasabii

IEMusic said:


> I can’t speak for the Z1, but I edited your comment.  It is a true statement.


The Z1 is a bit more aggressive than the DQ6 and I'd suggest trying other tips to emphasize the bass if that is what you are going for on the DQ6. I like the DQ6, but not those stock tips.


----------



## astermk

I'm seeing the DQ6 for $21 with coupons (LuckLZ), would that be worth the blind? 3DD is a setup I've never tried before. And I just really like the shell.


----------



## Senabuna

paulwasabii said:


> Yes, agree with this. The ST1 is a fun pair if you are  BA tolerant but I think the EDX is a better choice.


what does BA tolerant mean? I never own an IEM that uses BA, only dynamic driver


----------



## Pelicampe (Feb 7, 2021)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I've been testing my new DQ6 for a couple of days. Just light use so far.
> 
> I think the tuning is pretty good, closer to reality than some previous KZ designs. What strikes me the most, however, is the soundstage, transients, and percussion. There's pretty good separation and layering for a $27 IEM. But it's presented in a somewhat artificial fashion.
> 
> ...



Nice return, I share a lot of points.
There is indeed something a little tampered with in the treble.
But the general presentation, the level of detail, the openness make them a pleasant pair to listen to!

Quickly compared to BL03 BL01, BLONs seems to me more cool for metal or electro. This because of their big sound hollowed out with big bass.
The QD6 are tuned more balanced.

I am trying to find the right treble balance with an equalizer, aiming for the A7 as a reference. If I find something cool I'll share it with you. 

@amsterk, if you like more balanced tuning than this usual KZ product, go for it!


----------



## Pelicampe

Senabuna said:


> what does BA tolerant mean? I never own an IEM that uses BA, only dynamic driver



BAs sounds more detailled but they can have a more metallic presentation, Can sound too peaky, that give more openess and sense of details but in other way that be tiring.

ST1 at first listening are enjoyables, big lows, lot of details. But that is synthetic if you compare with a better set.
QD6 support comparaison with more better set than ST1.


----------



## Senabuna

Pelicampe said:


> BAs sounds more detailled but they can have a more metallic presentation, Can sound too peaky, that give more openess and sense of details but in other way that be tiring.
> 
> ST1 at first listening are enjoyables, big lows, lot of details. But that is synthetic if you compare with a better set.
> QD6 support comparaison with more better set than ST1.


Hmmmm I see, I don't know what the term metallic presentation mean but I can understand peaky, so I suppose its high region in FR is boosted or something yeah?


----------



## Sebulr

Senabuna said:


> Hmmmm I see, I don't know what the term metallic presentation mean but I can understand peaky, so I suppose its high region in FR is boosted or something yeah?


Transients in  snare drums and cymbals, can become too sharp and metallic sounding. Especially if the ba is in the nozzle and/or undampened. Some ba drivers have filters in them, some do not. A quick fix is put foam, under the metal filter, although you have to be careful with balance and not put too much in there to dampen the entire output of the earphone. Some earphones use a nylon mesh as well, but some people get moisture build up behind them affecting the sound output. It's an ongoing theme on head fi. 

Buy a kz zsn or zsn Pro for cheap, and you will understand. I think most bellsing ba drivers are undampened. And they are a but harsh in the nozzle.


----------



## peskypesky

unifutomaki said:


> CCA CST


those look good...except for the attached cables.


----------



## IEMusic

astermk said:


> I'm seeing the DQ6 for $21 with coupons (LuckLZ), would that be worth the blind? 3DD is a setup I've never tried before. And I just really like the shell.


Yes


----------



## saldsald

astermk said:


> I'm seeing the DQ6 for $21 with coupons (LuckLZ), would that be worth the blind? 3DD is a setup I've never tried before. And I just really like the shell.



You can always get the DQ6 from CIFI at $19 I think.


----------



## IEMusic (Feb 7, 2021)

I only have a modest KZ collection of 5 IEMs, but I do mostly like them for what they are.  I have been plenty satisfied with the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX, but I can’t get myself to like the ASF, even with a ton of EQ.  None of those 3 really caught my attention though.   The BA10 and DQ6 are different to me.  IMHO, they transcend the KZ brand, and I end up passing on several much more costly IEMs, because I specifically *want* to listen to them, and price plays no role in this.  Again, this is just one person‘s opinion, and others may not really like these 2 IEMs.   They are certainly not perfect, but I can’t help being very enthused about them.

Edit: Admittedly, I have not yet heard the much lauded ZAX.


----------



## Jet Black

IEMusic said:


> I only have a modest KZ collection of 5 IEMs, but I do mostly like them for what they are.  I have been plenty satisfied with the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX, but I can’t get myself to like the ASF, even with a ton of EQ.  None of those 3 really caught my attention though.   The BA10 and DQ6 are different to me.  IMHO, they transcend the KZ brand, and I end up passing on several much more costly IEMs, because I specifically *want* to listen to them, and price plays no role in this.  Again, this is just one person‘s opinion, and others may not really like these 2 IEMs.   They are certainly not perfect, but I can’t help being very enthused about them.
> 
> Edit: Admittedly, I have not yet heard the much lauded ZAX.


What's the difference between the zs10 pro and kz zsx? I only have the zs10 pro and im just wondering if it's a big improvement to buy a zsx?


----------



## unifutomaki

Jet Black said:


> What's the difference between the zs10 pro and kz zsx? I only have the zs10 pro and im just wondering if it's a big improvement to buy a zsx?



I would say just go for the ZAX if you're upgrading from the ZS10 Pro. It's a much more refined version of what you've already got.


----------



## Jitu13

unifutomaki said:


> I would say just go for the ZAX if you're upgrading from the ZS10 Pro. It's a much more refined version of what you've already got.


I got the impression that it's not worth the upgrade from zs10 pro if you already have it, and that ckx > zax. Is it worth it if you already have zs10 pro?


----------



## IEMusic

unifutomaki said:


> I would say just go for the ZAX if you're upgrading from the ZS10 Pro. It's a much more refined version of what you've already got.


I agree.  Though I haven‘t heard the ZAX yet, the ZSX is not really that different from the ZS10 Pro.  I bought it when it first came out.


----------



## voicemaster

Get the DQ6 if you only have $30 and if you have $50+ then get the BA10. I do have a lot of KZs and I recommend those two.


----------



## scratchmassive

voicemaster said:


> Get the DQ6 if you only have $30 and if you have $50+ then get the BA10. I do have a lot of KZs and I recommend those two.



If I have $80 should I get both? Only half joking...


----------



## voicemaster

scratchmassive said:


> If I have $80 should I get both? Only half joking...


Hell yea!!


----------



## G777

The DQ6 is pretty awesome indeed. The only issue I had with it is that the fit is not the best for my ears due to the part that sticks out at the top. I had to roll some tips to make it comfortable.


----------



## astermk

unifutomaki said:


> I would say just go for the ZAX if you're upgrading from the ZS10 Pro. It's a much more refined version of what you've already got.


Seconding this - ZS10 Pro owners should skip the ZSX entirely, the ZAX is like a perfected ZS10 Pro. Also, it's just an incredibly good looking IEM if you ask me. Even if the vents do nothing for the sound, they do make it look amazing.


----------



## Nimweth

Pelicampe said:


> BAs sounds more detailled but they can have a more metallic presentation, Can sound too peaky, that give more openess and sense of details but in other way that be tiring.
> 
> ST1 at first listening are enjoyables, big lows, lot of details. But that is synthetic if you compare with a better set.
> QD6 support comparaison with more better set than ST1.


BAs need not sound metallic. Good quality BAs when correctly tuned can sound excellent. I have TRI i4, Tin T3, TRI Starsea and MT300, all of which have Knowles BAs and none of these sounds metallic. TRI's own high frequency BA in the Starsea is also very smooth, clean and extended with good timbre. Even Bellsing BAs as used in most KZs can sound good if tuned properly, for example ZS7 and BA10, and CCA CA16.


----------



## chinmie

Nimweth said:


> BAs need not sound metallic. Good quality BAs when correctly tuned can sound excellent. I have TRI i4, Tin T3, TRI Starsea and MT300, all of which have Knowles BAs and none of these sounds metallic. TRI's own high frequency BA in the Starsea is also very smooth, clean and extended with good timbre. Even Bellsing BAs as used in most KZs can sound good if tuned properly, for example ZS7 and BA10, and CCA CA16.



between the BA10 and MT300, which one sound better technically , and which one do you like more?


----------



## Nimweth (Feb 8, 2021)

chinmie said:


> between the BA10 and MT300, which one sound better technically , and which one do you like more?


The BA10 is the finest KZ model to date, IMO. It is also my favourite all BA IEM. It avoids the harshness of most of its siblings and the bass BA has an almost DD-like tonality. The 4-way crossover is very well implemented. However, the MT300 is in a different league, and manages to be supremely accomplished both musically and technically. It also is very well made and presented with a great cable and loads of accessories and is very comfortable, whereas the BA10 does cause some fit problems with its unusual shape.


----------



## ZAXon 7

Nimweth said:


> The BA10 is the finest KZ model to date, IMO. It is also my favourite all BA IEM. It avoids the harshness of most of its siblings and the bass BA has an almost DD-like tonality. The 4-way crossover is very well implemented. However, the MT300 is in a different league, and manages to be supremely accomplished both musically and technically. It also is very well made and presented with a great cable and loads of accessories and is very comfortable, whereas the BA10 does cause some fit problems with its unusual shape.



tried to check for Sender MT300 on aliexpress, found completely different prices, from 62€ to over 200€... i'm confused...

- if possible, how do they compare to the ZAX and ASX?


----------



## requal

@ZAXon 7 Mt300 is rather easy to like earphone. Asx is risky, it's hard to find good environment to them.


----------



## Nimweth

ZAXon 7 said:


> tried to check for Sender MT300 on aliexpress, found completely different prices, from 62€ to over 200€... i'm confused...
> 
> - if possible, how do they compare to the ZAX and ASX?


I do not have the ASX, but the ZAX has an exciting, V-shaped sound, not unlike the ZS10 Pro with more refinement and better BA timbre. The MT300 improves on the ZAX with a natural, well extended bass which is not overdone, excellent midrange from the Knowles 33518 BA and the TDK EST HF driver is clean, airy and extended. Soundstage is very good too. Added to this, presentation and accessories are top notch. At around £60 from Ali Express it's a no-brainer!


----------



## PhonoPhi

chinmie said:


> between the BA10 and MT300, which one sound better technically , and which one do you like more?


A very good question, and a very interesting comparison, so I humbly add my few words to it.

BA10 and MT300 are very different for an easy simple comparison, so trying to break it into different facets.

*Technically:*
-- Tuning - while MT300 are surprisingly coherent for a tribrid, my slight preference is with BA10, still, arguably, the best tuned KZ.

-- Resolution - a bit hard to call at first: MT300 definitely make a more resolving impression, but how much of it is the EST sparkle? (akin to those type II tapes). Then, thinking about it, still MT300 overall, the strings can sound mighty nice.

-- Bass - definitely a matter of taste: nicely implemented BA bass in BA10 (I would not much agree about DD-like, that would be Sonion BAs to me, which I personally dislike); MT300 has one of tge best DD bass for me - resolving, not intrusive but present and well integrated with the rest.

-- Mids - the weakest part of MT300 to me, one BA covers mids reasonably competently, but if you compare with Knowles ED29689 or even C16 and ZAX, mids of MT300 are less to me. BA10 mids are a bit more rounded in this aspect, but still mids were not something KZ thought of as a tuning priority. The graininess of old Bellsings is also the most apparent in mids.

-- Treble - MT300 definitely wins EST (and BA) do the nice job; BA10 have  quite extended and quite treble, but not at MT300's level.

*Preference:*
-- Shells are both very nice, but in terms of fit, MT300 are one of the most comfortable IEMs: small, no sharp corners, no contest here!
Both metal shells would be really harsh for our current minus 15-17  in the last few days to wear outside

-- Overall - since MT300 are my only EST pair, and they are really easy to like in so many aspects, MT300 win over BA10.
As well, BA10 were $85-90 at their launch in 2017 (or early 2018) - unheard for KZ, while MT300 were $170, so it is also a factor.

*MT300 overall.*
MT300 also wins over ZAX for me and "as is" ASX.


----------



## chinmie

Nimweth said:


> The BA10 is the finest KZ model to date, IMO. It is also my favourite all BA IEM. It avoids the harshness of most of its siblings and the bass BA has an almost DD-like tonality. The 4-way crossover is very well implemented. However, the MT300 is in a different league, and manages to be supremely accomplished both musically and technically. It also is very well made and presented with a great cable and loads of accessories and is very comfortable, whereas the BA10 does cause some fit problems with its unusual shape.





PhonoPhi said:


> A very good question, and a very interesting comparison, so I humbly add my few words to it.
> 
> BA10 and MT300 are very different for an easy simple comparison, so trying to break it into different facets.
> 
> ...



thank you both for the really detailed comparison, i couldn't ask for more


----------



## jaydm99

I have the ZST X and looking for a warmer sounding/less bright pair. I got my eyes on the DQ6, does it fit my criteria?


----------



## Pelicampe

Nimweth said:


> BAs need not sound metallic. Good quality BAs when correctly tuned can sound excellent. I have TRI i4, Tin T3, TRI Starsea and MT300, all of which have Knowles BAs and none of these sounds metallic. TRI's own high frequency BA in the Starsea is also very smooth, clean and extended with good timbre. Even Bellsing BAs as used in most KZs can sound good if tuned properly, for example ZS7 and BA10, and CCA CA16.



Thank you for providing these details! I can only agree.   

Obviously I was talking about entry level BAs.
For example my H40, C16 or LZ A7 themselves have BAs and I am fully satisfied with them.


----------



## G777

jaydm99 said:


> I have the ZST X and looking for a warmer sounding/less bright pair. I got my eyes on the DQ6, does it fit my criteria?


The DQ6 are a touch bright, but probably less so than the ZST X (I don't own the ZST X though).


----------



## Senabuna

Is there a guide somewhere on how to open KZ's IEMs? I'd like to paint my EDX if there's a guide on how to open it


----------



## Nimweth

Pelicampe said:


> Thank you for providing these details! I can only agree.
> 
> Obviously I was talking about entry level BAs.
> For example my H40, C16 or LZ A7 themselves have BAs and I am fully satisfied with them.


Generally the more affordable IEMs with BAs tend to exhibit poorer tonality but that is not always the case. For example the CCA C10 Pro has poor tuning but the KBEAR Lark at a similar price is well tuned. And the CVJ CSA is excellent at the price with a mature tonality.


----------



## lgcubana

Senabuna said:


> Is there a guide somewhere on how to open KZ's IEMs? I'd like to paint my EDX if there's a guide on how to open it


Yes, we have an omniscient presence in the forum 
First, you’ll have to specify which model you’re looking to molest 
Then call his name 3x
@Slater


----------



## wopossum

Senabuna said:


> Is there a guide somewhere on how to open KZ's IEMs? I'd like to paint my EDX if there's a guide on how to open it


I'd say call @Slater https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3572#post-16088608


----------



## voicemaster

Second pair of BA10 added to collection. If you are looking for fun sounding IEM, look no further.


----------



## trumpethead

AliEx finally refunded me for my stolen BA10 after initially saying no refund... I'm not sure of the reason for the reversal but I believe that my posting of the situation on this forum may have made them realize they would have lost more business than the 42 bucks they would have gotten from me.. Either way I'm grateful for the refund but still cautious about purchasing from AE, especially higher prices items.. In this economy and situation most of us do not have expendable cash to just give away....in the meantime, waiting for my second DQ6 to arrive.... That was a short lived boycott!! Lol!


----------



## wopossum

trumpethead said:


> AliEx finally refunded me for my stolen BA10 after initially saying no refund... I'm not sure of the reason for the reversal but I believe that my posting of the situation on this forum may have made them realize they would have lost more business than the 42 bucks they would have gotten from me.



I don't think it's because of your posts. They have weird customers support. If you have a good amount of successful orders, they will treat you better, they even have classified account groups because of that. I think eBay has its own implementation of the same exact system though.


----------



## trumpethead

wopossum said:


> I don't think it's because of your posts. They have weird customers support. If you have a good amount of successful orders, they will treat you better, they even have classified account groups because of that. I think eBay has its own implementation of the same exact system though.


True, could be very possible that your theory is correct... I have made a ton of orders with them with very few disputes..


----------



## voicemaster

trumpethead said:


> True, could be very possible that your theory is correct... I have made a ton of orders with them with very few disputes..


I have never returned anything when ordering from AliExpress. Why? Because I treat it as a lost cost hahaha. If it turn out great then awesome, if not then I just suck it up basically.


----------



## RCracer777

Alright that does it, these BA10's are way too good. They give me goose bumps from time to time.

I'm lovin' that fast and tight BA bass. Combine that with the good technicality's, sound stage, imaging and coherency due to the 4-way crossover. 
It just keeps me coming back for more, even with the poor fit. I can't quite describe the feeling when I'm listening to them other than that they make me feel like I'm home. 
(I've been at home for over a month due to lockdown but that not quite what I meant)

Don't get me wrong, they have their problems and I still prefer my Tri Starsea to them but these are a definite mainstay along with the ZAX and the KBEAR Lark. 

And ever the crow I managed to snap up a silver DQ6 for €17 to go along with the gold BA10. I might have a problem...


----------



## lgcubana

trumpethead said:


> AliEx finally refunded me for my stolen BA10 after initially saying no refund... I'm not sure of the reason for the reversal but I believe that my posting of the situation on this forum may have made them realize they would have lost more business than the 42 bucks they would have gotten from me.. Either way I'm grateful for the refund but still cautious about purchasing from AE, especially higher prices items.. In this economy and situation most of us do not have expendable cash to just give away....in the meantime, waiting for my second DQ6 to arrive.... That was a short lived boycott!! Lol!


If you’re in the U.S. there’s one pair of the KZ BA10 (red/black) left on Amazon, for $48.41
gold/red is coming at a premium, $66.99


----------



## trumpethead

voicemaster said:


> I have never returned anything when ordering from AliExpress. Why? Because I treat it as a lost cost hahaha. If it turn out great then awesome, if not then I just suck it up basically.


I also have never returned, nor sold anything bought from AE..I have given away a lot though...I have been fortunate to have had minimal problems with orders so it kinda threw me a bit when they were giving me problems about an obvious refund issue.. Whatever the case I got my refund and had already purchased the BA10 from Amazon so I'm good... Loving my DQ6 and got another on the way....


----------



## trumpethead

lgcubana said:


> If you’re in the U.S. there’s one pair of the KZ BA10 (red/black) left on Amazon, for $48.41
> gold/red is coming at a premium, $66.99


Thanks, I picked up one for 47usd from Amazon a couple of days after the broken into package from AE came...I am very Happy. With them....


----------



## trumpethead

RCracer777 said:


> Alright that does it, these BA10's are way too good. They give me goose bumps from time to time.
> 
> I'm lovin' that fast and tight BA bass. Combine that with the good technicality's, sound stage, imaging and coherency due to the 4-way crossover.
> It just keeps me coming back for more, even with the poor fit. I can't quite describe the feeling when I'm listening to them other than that they make me feel like I'm home.
> ...


You Are Not Alone....


----------



## Senabuna (Feb 10, 2021)

just got my EDX, testing them atm, one pass with log sweep reveal very noticeable peaks at pass 4.1k and in between 5.6k and 7.7k.

and the cable isn't great, it's still in its kinked state out of the box, anyway to straighter these bois out?

also also, I shall summon thee @Slater @Slater @Slater as guided by other members, as to how to open KZ EDX for this person would like to open it without damaging it, if you don't mind sharing the knowledge that you have obtained o7


----------



## Nimweth

RCracer777 said:


> Alright that does it, these BA10's are way too good. They give me goose bumps from time to time.
> 
> I'm lovin' that fast and tight BA bass. Combine that with the good technicality's, sound stage, imaging and coherency due to the 4-way crossover.
> It just keeps me coming back for more, even with the poor fit. I can't quite describe the feeling when I'm listening to them other than that they make me feel like I'm home.
> ...


BA10, ZAX, Starsea and Lark. Agree on all four counts!


----------



## whirlwind

How is the ZAX bass compared to KZS10 Pro


----------



## artatgray

whirlwind said:


> How is the ZAX bass compared to KZS10 Pro



Everything the ZS10 Pro does well, the ZAX does better, and with more style!


----------



## whirlwind

artatgray said:


> Everything the ZS10 Pro does well, the ZAX does better, and with more style!


great...does the open design leak much ,..enough to amount to anything


----------



## artatgray

whirlwind said:


> great...does the open design leak much ,..enough to amount to anything



I've had no one around me complain about them, but then again, I'd probably beat them up if they did... (I'm joking about the assault).


----------



## guido

the ZAX really leaks very little if anything...

Would a BA10 complement the ZAX nicely or should I just stick with the ZAX?

I am really enjoying it and do not want to fall into a rabbit hole..

Thinking of getting the FiiO UTWS3 to turn one of them into a wireless setup and use the other on the FiiO Q5s TC....any thoughts?


----------



## whirlwind

artatgray said:


> I've had no one around me complain about them, but then again, I'd probably beat them up if they did... (I'm joking about the assault).


Thanks


----------



## RCracer777 (Feb 10, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> great...does the open design leak much ,..enough to amount to anything


From what I've experienced with a friend of mine trying my ZAX, I could barely hear her music from about 6 feet away in a quiet room. I don't now how loud she listens but I'd have to get quite a bit closer to hear what the song was. So I don't think most people would complain and if there is a little bit of noise you can't hear it anymore.


----------



## voicemaster

guido said:


> the ZAX really leaks very little if anything...
> 
> Would a BA10 complement the ZAX nicely or should I just stick with the ZAX?
> 
> ...


BA10 is more like the best sounding KZ sound signature (V shaped). It is not flat for sure, but it has the best bass on any KZ imho, mid is like the ZS7, treble is smooth and extend quite well.


----------



## guido

but you do not have one in your signature


----------



## voicemaster

guido said:


> but you do not have one in your signature


I haven't updated my signature haha.
I have two pairs actually.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16167382


----------



## guido

but if I have the ZAX,,,,do I really need them? They are 55 euro here in Italy on Amazon...


----------



## voicemaster

guido said:


> but if I have the ZAX,,,,*do I really need them?* They are 55 euro here in Italy on Amazon...


I asked that same question a lot myself and I bet 90% of people here in Head-fi also do. I am a bad example to give that answer because I will always say YES lol. 
On the more serious note, it depends on what sound you like. If you can get them on Amazon, then just buy it then return it if you don't like.


----------



## artatgray

guido said:


> Would a BA10 complement the ZAX nicely or should I just stick with the ZAX?



I like having multiple driver configurations in my collection as well. I currently own the ZAX, which is hybrid BA and DD, and the ASX, which is all BA - when the latter is EQed, it sounds fantastic, by the way. I'll grab the DQ6 in the near future to add an all DD to the collection.

I've previously owned the ZSX and the AS10. I had considered the BA10, but its shape really put me off as it's not ergonomic in any way, shape or form. And since the frequency response of the AS10 is very similar, I decided against it.


----------



## voicemaster

artatgray said:


> I like having multiple driver configurations in my collection as well. I currently own the ZAX, which is hybrid BA and DD, and the ASX, which is all BA - when the latter is EQed, it sounds fantastic, by the way. I'll grab the DQ6 in the near future to add an all DD to the collection.
> 
> I've previously owned the ZSX and the AS10. I had considered the BA10, but its shape really put me off as it's not ergonomic in any way, shape or form. And since the frequency response of the AS10 is very similar, I decided against it.


One can't just look at freq response and say oh this IEM and this IEM will sound similar. I have AS10 and BA10, both are way different in sound. True the shape of BA10 is far from ergonomic, there is a trick that works when using the BA10.

Here you can see the cable is angled upward just like you normally use an IEM. If I were to use the BA10 like this, my earlobe will start hurting after awhile. You can see how the back of the BA10 attached to my earlobe.
Now, this is how I use my BA10. The cable is almost perfectly parallel to my glasses. I can wear my BA10 for hours without my earlobe getting hurt.


----------



## artatgray

voicemaster said:


> One can't just look at freq response and say oh this IEM and this IEM will sound similar. I



If one is familiar with measurements and has a working knowledge of psycho-acoustics, there's tons of information that can be gleaned. 

As for what you're hearing, there are numerous factors that come into play, none of which I'm in the mood to debate.


----------



## voicemaster (Feb 10, 2021)

Okay then!
Stop misleading people when you don't have said IEM and said it will sound similar to your previous IEMs without even hearing it. Up to you if you want to believe psycho whatever, but without listening it yourself, whatever you said is just assumption.


----------



## whirlwind

If anybody here upgrades their ZAX to something else and wants to sell...pm me...looking for a black one.


----------



## IEMusic

artatgray said:


> I like having multiple driver configurations in my collection as well. I currently own the ZAX, which is hybrid BA and DD, and the ASX, which is all BA - when the latter is EQed, it sounds fantastic, by the way. I'll grab the DQ6 in the near future to add an all DD to the collection.
> 
> I've previously owned the ZSX and the AS10. I had considered the BA10, but its shape really put me off as it's not ergonomic in any way, shape or form. And since the frequency response of the AS10 is very similar, I decided against it.


I don’t have the AS10, so I can’t opine on how it sounds, or compare it to the BA10, but just with a quick glance, the AS10 and BA10 graphs don’t really look similar other than both being V-shaped.  I can completely understand being deterred by the shape of the BA10 though.


----------



## voicemaster

IEMusic said:


> I don’t have the AS10, so I can’t opine on how it sounds, or compare it to the BA10, but just with a quick glance, the AS10 and BA10 graphs don’t really look similar other than both being V-shaped.  I can completely understand being deterred by the shape of the BA10 though.


BA10 is vented while AS10 is not should be an obvious difference in sound.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Feb 12, 2021)

It's 5am.

The CKX came in last night and I've been up since 3:30 am putting it through it's paces.

Thus far, you can color me impressed.

Initial impressions are that the CKX is a great bang-for-buck hybrid set.




saldsald said:


> I completely ditched the DQ6 after getting the CKX




DQ6 is becoming one of my favorite DD sets but your point here is well noted.
The CKX has improved resolution, imaging and layering. Glad I ordered two sets.

That being said, my DQ6 isn't going anywhere.
It's a fantastic Tri-Dy!

Still, the CKX is a definite keeper. I'll need to put it up against several of my favorite hybrids to see how it holds up. My gut tells me it might still be standing after a full 15 rounds.






I'll only get 90 minutes more sleep before starting my day but the CKX was worth the interruption.


----------



## saldsald (Feb 12, 2021)

*DC*


Alpha Whale said:


> It's 5am.
> 
> The CKX came in last night and I've been up since 3:30 am putting it through it's paces.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should also try the BQEYZ BQ3. I think this and the CKX can easily compete with IEMs several times of their asking price.

I hope you get enough sleep btw.


----------



## Jet Black

How does cca ckx compared to an old trusty kz zs10 pro?


----------



## Joseph Lin

Alpha Whale said:


> It's 5am.
> 
> The CKX came in last night and I've been up since 3:30 am putting it through it's paces.
> 
> ...


Have you listend to KZ ZAX? I recently ordered almost all KZ earbuds and some CCA including CKX. I returned all of them except ZAX and CKX. CKX's fitting is the best, very comfortable. Sound wise, ZAX is a bit better than CKX, better lower end extension. The high end is more airy as well. The tuning of these two earbuds are almost the same to my ears. I think both represent the best, true flagships of both brands. It is not worth it to "upgrade" to AS16. AS16 has a tiny bit of improvement of resolution, but the bass is lacking. I am not a bass head, but a good quantity and good quality bass makes music sound more fun.


----------



## BrunoC

saldsald said:


> *DC*
> 
> Maybe you should also try the BQEYZ BQ3. I think this and the CKX can easily compete with IEMs several times of their asking price.
> 
> I hope you get enough sleep btw.



BQ3? Please don't. What a waste e of money. Awful tuning, dark sound, strange treble. BQ3 was an error.

My $3 Vido is 100x better.


----------



## saldsald (Feb 12, 2021)

BrunoC said:


> BQ3? Please don't. What a waste e of money. Awful tuning, dark sound, strange treble. BQ3 was an error.
> 
> My $3 Vido is 100x better.


It is wonderful to my ears. 3d stage, nice flat tuning, deep bass, warm sound and warm treble but requires the right cable. Your experience obviously is different from those who reviewed the BQ3.


----------



## BrunoC (Feb 12, 2021)

saldsald said:


> It is wonderful to my ears. 3d stage, nice flat tuning, deep bass, warm sound and warm treble but requires the right cable. Your experience obviously is different from those who reviewed the BQ3.



I was hyped by good reviews and bought it.
My BQ3 might be a lemon, as it's totally the opposite sound of your description. But believe me, I have seen some others that share my opinion.

Anyway what cable and source are you using? I even tried a pure silver cable and a bright source like the Ziku HD-X9 (Cirrus Logic DAC) to no avail.


----------



## saldsald (Feb 12, 2021)

BrunoC said:


> I was hyped by good reviews and bought it.
> My BQ3 might be a lemon, as it's totally the opposite sound of your description. But believe me, I have seen some others that share my opinion.
> 
> Anyway what cable and source are you using?


I have really good result with the new Trn T6 and I mainly use my Fiio M11 Pro. The BQ3 can easily be too bassy with the wrong cable IMO so maybe you can do some cable rolling first. The sound can feel quite wrong due to the excessive bass which bleeds into the mids due to the cable. But once you found the right cable it is just quite wonderful. Also, I use JVC spiral dot, which is wide bore.


----------



## wopossum (Feb 12, 2021)

Recently, I started arguing with my buddy about budget headphones. Not that it was intentional.
My initial argument about IEMs being a better choice is that they have a greater chance of being "bang for the buck", simply because it's a smaller form-factor, it requires fewer materials, which then means there is a greater chance that these materials would have more quality compared to the full-sized headphones(for the same price).
You can't buy a bag of cigarettes and then pretend that you can buy a submarine fully loaded with them for just $1, do you?
I'm not saying that it's that simple, and there are some complications behind the scenes.

He says IEMs were created as a continuation of hearing aids and their purpose is for musicians and not audiophiles. So I thought, even then, *what kind of issues we're dealing with if we use IEMs instead of full-sized headphones*? I know, they lack soundstage because of physical distance to the eardrum and small-sized drivers. And there's also a resonance peak at 8k Hz. Two things. What else? Why it's not supposed to be used as something that you would consider for high-quality listening experience?
Later on, he says "what about THD(total harmonic distortion) in these IEMs"?
I said: ok, there's 1-2% in peaks even when we're using Knowles BA drivers.
Then he said: is that not enough?

So I started to think, theoretically losing 1-2% in peaks shouldn't be much of a worry. I also knew that BA drivers do have a somewhat .. high THD? And I said about that. Then I asked him, do you think that because of THD, full-sized headphones in the same price range would sound definitely better than, for example, KZ ZAX? He said yes, of course.
I looked it up what can we have for just $60. AKG K92(clickable).
I sent this link, and he immediately says: these are going to be worse. They have a dynamic driver that still has a high THD. I say: ok, what's the better option?

*He says. Electrostats. Their THD is incomparable to anything else.*

I thought that it was a joke and googled what's the cheapest option available. Stax SR L300. Hey, just x10 times more expensive. Haha.
On that note, I understood that our discussion is over.

Ok, guys, what's your thoughts? Do Campfire Audio, Noble, Astell&Kern and other Summit-Fi brands treat everyone as idiots and sell their expensive IEMs just for fun? I don't think there would be any market if IEMs are that bad compared to the full-sized headphones.


----------



## Tonymac136

wopossum said:


> Recently, I started arguing with my buddy about budget headphones. Not that it was intentional.
> My initial argument about IEMs being a better choice is that they have a greater chance of being "bang for the buck", simply because it's a smaller form-factor, it requires fewer materials, which then means there is a greater chance that these materials would have more quality compared to the full-sized headphones(for the same price).
> You can't buy a bag of cigarettes and then pretend that you can buy a submarine fully loaded with them for just $1, do you?
> I'm not saying that it's that simple, and there are some complications behind the scenes.
> ...



Horses/courses. My best pairs of cans are AKG K702 and Hifiman HE400i, so I'm fishing at the budget end of the scale. Soundstage is better than any of my IEMs, but the timbre and technicalities are far better with certain of my IEMs. Also, I have 30 odd pairs of IEMs which would get expensive if I tried to achieve with cans.

Both types have their pros, their cons, their lovers and their haters. And you know what? If you enjoy your music with your gear and somebody else disses your gear... F them. Who really cares? If you're more bothered by your gear than your music you need to stop chopping and changing gear and get back to the music.


----------



## G777 (Feb 12, 2021)

wopossum said:


> Recently, I started arguing with my buddy about budget headphones. Not that it was intentional.
> My initial argument about IEMs being a better choice is that they have a greater chance of being "bang for the buck", simply because it's a smaller form-factor, it requires fewer materials, which then means there is a greater chance that these materials would have more quality compared to the full-sized headphones(for the same price).
> You can't buy a bag of cigarettes and then pretend that you can buy a submarine fully loaded with them for just $1, do you?
> I'm not saying that it's that simple, and there are some complications behind the scenes.
> ...


Did he mean electrostats? Planars can be had for under $200 (e.g. the HE400i).

I haven't tried any $100+ IEMs, but I can say my HE400i is far better than any IEM I own. Soundstage and openness definitely plays a big part in that. Sometimes I even prefer the KSC75 to the IEMs.

But IEMs are definitely the far better value in the budget range. I get the impression that in higher price brackets,  the performance of full-sized headphones scale better than IEMs.

Personally, headphones and IEMs serve different purposes and compliment each other. Can't really wear full sized open-back headphones outside, so that's where IEMs mainly come in for me.


----------



## wopossum

G777 said:


> Did he mean electrostats? Planars can be had for under $200



Oh, my bad. Yes.


----------



## nraymond

wopossum said:


> *He says. Electrostats. Their THD is incomparable to anything else.*



How old is this guy? This sounds like the type of argument I'd overhear in a dorm hallway in my undergrad years. Arguing for arguing's sake.

Crinacle recently reviewed the Sennheiser HE-1, and he gave it props for _not_ sounding like an electrostat. He explained it this way:



> It’s no secret that I have a love-hate relationship with electrostats. Love the detail and resolution that seems to come almost by default with an electrostatic setup, and hate the fact that a wonky tuning also seems to similarly come by default.
> 
> I’m not sure what it is that makes an electrostatic driver so hard to tune with a half-decent tonality, but that’s mainly my biggest hangup with electrostatic headphones in general. Not the fact that one is tethered to a desk with an estat, not even the fact that its fragility makes it susceptible to things as simple as _dust_, but rather that so few electrostatic headphones out there can at least match their excellent resolving ability with a tuning that doesn’t sound like a dying car horn.


----------



## unifutomaki

My interest in audio gear only goes so far as the gear I can practically take on the go with me in order to shut out the rest of the world. Full-sized headphones need not apply.


----------



## r31ya

Joseph Lin said:


> Have you listend to KZ ZAX? I recently ordered almost all KZ earbuds and some CCA including CKX. I returned all of them except ZAX and CKX. CKX's fitting is the best, very comfortable. Sound wise, ZAX is a bit better than CKX, better lower end extension. The high end is more airy as well. The tuning of these two earbuds are almost the same to my ears. I think both represent the best, true flagships of both brands. It is not worth it to "upgrade" to AS16. AS16 has a tiny bit of improvement of resolution, but the bass is lacking. I am not a bass head, but a good quantity and good quality bass makes music sound more fun.



I'm currently saving to get one of these three, KZ ZAX, CCA CKX, or Tripowin TC-01.
I heard CKX is better than ZAX in most thing.
But ZAX have more airyness due to semi openback design.

could you give us more detailed comparison between the two (Zax and CKX), on the bass, mid, treble, soundstage and tonality?


----------



## Joseph Lin

r31ya said:


> I'm currently saving to get one of these three, KZ ZAX, CCA CKX, or Tripowin TC-01.
> I heard CKX is better than ZAX in most thing.
> But ZAX have more airyness due to semi openback design.
> 
> could you give us more detailed comparison between the two (Zax and CKX), on the bass, mid, treble, soundstage and tonality?



My daily drivers are Sony IER-Z1R, Andromeda, Focal Utopia and recently acquired Airpods Max depending on my mood. To me the bar is very high. I'll try to describe them from my personal experience, they are not going to be scientific.

Comparing ZAX or CKX to Z1R, they are able to match up to 80% of Z1R's SQ. Both have better lower end than Andromeda. Detail of mid and treble on them are way worse than on Andromeda, or I should say both of them are destroyed by Andromeda. They are very easy to drive. I am driving them with the Hiby R3 Pro. There is no need to drive them from WA8 like what I would do when listening to Utopia.

Tuning of CKX and ZAX are very similar, they sound like twin earphones. Both offer good quality of sound across all spectrum. The low end extension on ZAX is about 3%(just a random number) better than CKX, just a little bit better. Unlike rest of KZ earbuds, the bass does not bleed to mids on both. This is one of the deciding factors to me. High end extension follows the same trend, ZAX is about 3% (again, a random number) better than CKX. Due to this, ZAX sounds like having a wider sound stage, just a tiny bit wider. Treble on both are very smooth, resembles what Z1R would do. The mids on both are very good and feels like you are standing at a proper distance(15ft~20ft distance?) from the source with good quality of texture, not too intimate like Andromeda. To me, they are very close to Harmon curve.

Details on both are very close to each other, with ZAX a tiny bit better here or there. Both offer very fun and pleasing sound, you do not need to pay too much attention to minue details in the music that distracts you from your study or work.  On the other hand, they also offer good quality of details in the music from time to time that make them fun. I can listen to them for several hours without feeling pressure or fatigue. Unlike Z1R, I got distracted because of the details in the music all the time, it makes you stop what you are doing and forces you to pay attention to the music. Z1R is like ZAX or CKX on steroid, the details in the music will fatigue you after a few hours.

If ZAX is a bit better and also a bit cheaper than CKX, why do I keep CKX? Well, the fitting on CKX is much better than ZAX. It is very smooth that "melts" in my ear. ZAX on the other hand, pokes my ears from time to time due to the pointy shape, you feel its existence in your ears. The noise isolation is very good on both if proper size of tips are used.

Do they worth the money? Definitely! For around $70, they offer a very good listening experience that is suitable for study and work out. Wearing them for movies is also very satisfying. I won't hesitate to take them out in the public. They provide worry free, disposable background music experience without sacrificing too much of sound quality whenever you feel like it.


----------



## saldsald

Joseph Lin said:


> My daily drivers are Sony IER-Z1R, Andromeda, Focal Utopia and recently acquired Airpods Max depending on my mood. To me the bar is very high. I'll try to describe them from my personal experience, they are not going to be scientific.
> 
> Comparing ZAX or CKX to Z1R, they are able to match up to 80% of Z1R's SQ. Both have better lower end than Andromeda. Detail of mid and treble on them are way worse than on Andromeda, or I should say both of them are destroyed by Andromeda. They are very easy to drive. I am driving them with the Hiby R3 Pro. There is no need to drive them from WA8 like what I would do when listening to Utopia.
> 
> ...


I think we have similar impressions on the ZAX and CKX except that to my ears the CKX is less V shape tuned and has quite a bit better tonal accuracy, depending on the genre of music thou. YMMV.


----------



## G777

Is the ZAX significantly better than the DQ6? Their graphs look pretty similar.


----------



## saldsald

G777 said:


> Is the ZAX significantly better than the DQ6? Their graphs look pretty similar.


Quite a bit higher resolution at least.


----------



## Nimweth

saldsald said:


> *DC*
> 
> Maybe you should also try the BQEYZ BQ3. I think this and the CKX can easily compete with IEMs several times of their asking price.
> 
> I hope you get enough sleep btw.


I do not have the CKX but agree with you about the BQ3, it has a warm gentle V shape with good tonality and it's one you can listen to without fatigue.


----------



## astermk (Feb 13, 2021)

Joseph Lin said:


> My daily drivers are Sony IER-Z1R, Andromeda, Focal Utopia and recently acquired Airpods Max depending on my mood. To me the bar is very high. I'll try to describe them from my personal experience, they are not going to be scientific.
> 
> Comparing ZAX or CKX to Z1R, they are able to match up to 80% of Z1R's SQ. Both have better lower end than Andromeda. Detail of mid and treble on them are way worse than on Andromeda, or I should say both of them are destroyed by Andromeda. They are very easy to drive. I am driving them with the Hiby R3 Pro. There is no need to drive them from WA8 like what I would do when listening to Utopia.
> 
> ...


The ZAX can be bought for 49 bucks right now (actually, that's the price I got them for at launch too because promo codes) and the Z1R go for $1700. 80% of the sound for 3% of the price. Of course, the point is not to say that there is no reason to own endgame gear. The point is just to talk about how far Chi-fi has come. The ZAX is of course not perfect (I find the bass a little bloomy and loose, I think subbass extension could be improved a little bit, and they could do with being a touch less shouty in the pinna gain area) but I'm just amazed at how resolving and coherent it is at the price it goes for, with excellent technicalities and soundstage.

I'm surprised you find the ZAX pointy. It's actually one of the only KZs using that shell that isn't pointy as the corners on the faceplate are smoothed. The CCA C12 for example has sharp corners instead and boy can you feel them after a while.


----------



## lgcubana

Joseph Lin said:


> *My daily drivers are Sony IER-Z1R, Andromeda, Focal Utopia* and recently acquired Airpods Max depending on my mood. To me the bar is very high. I'll try to describe them from my personal experience, they are not going to be scientific.
> 
> *Comparing ZAX or CKX to Z1R*, they are able to match up to 80% of Z1R's SQ. Both have better lower end than Andromeda. Detail of mid and treble on them are way worse than on Andromeda, or I should say both of them are destroyed by Andromeda. They are very easy to drive. I am driving them with the Hiby R3 Pro. There is no need to drive them from WA8 like what I would do when listening to Utopia.
> 
> ...


My biggest takeaway from your analysis: your commitment to the hobby.  Only an enthusiast would putt around in a four banger, when their daily ride is a Vehron.


----------



## Nimweth

Having been reminded of the BQ3 I have fitted it with the KBEAR Limpid Pro cable and this is a combination which really works. Mid range timbre is very natural and a little more forward, and detail is improved. The sound is more in balance with the bass which has gained a bit more texture. If you have the BQ3 and the Limpid Pro then give it a try.


----------



## Joseph Lin

G777 said:


> Is the ZAX significantly better than the DQ6? Their graphs look pretty similar.


DQ6 is a surprise for the price, but ZAX is still better in almost every way. Accroding to @astermk , 95% of the sound for half of the price, it is a steal.


----------



## Mouseman

G777 said:


> Is the ZAX significantly better than the DQ6? Their graphs look pretty similar.


As others have said, ZAX is more resolving with better separation. DQ6 sounds amazing, very fluid. It reminds me of a pair of floor speakers with great coherence. I really enjoy both.


----------



## saldsald

Nimweth said:


> Having been reminded of the BQ3 I have fitted it with the KBEAR Limpid Pro cable and this is a combination which really works. Mid range timbre is very natural and a little more forward, and detail is improved. The sound is more in balance with the bass which has gained a bit more texture. If you have the BQ3 and the Limpid Pro then give it a try.



The TRN T6 is really worth a shot too IMHO if you like the BQ3. In contrast everything is less forward with the T6 and clarity is greatly improved. Although the Spring 2 is one of my favourites I feel that the BQ3 is more versatile with this combo and I usually pick the BQ3 instead of the Spring 2.


----------



## Jet Black

wopossum said:


> I have finally received my package with KZ ZAX, Ibasso DC03, KBEar 16-core copper cable and Spinfits CP100/145/800(the latter was a wrong choice but it's too late).
> 
> So uh.
> 
> ...


How was your experience with the ibasso dc03? Has it a good sound quality?


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

astermk said:


> I'm seeing the DQ6 for $21 with coupons (LuckLZ), would that be worth the blind? 3DD is a setup I've never tried before. And I just really like the shell.


Yes, IF you have a bunch of tips to try. The DQ6 went from my worst IEM to one of my favorites after finding the right tips (blue bgvp).


----------



## chifihead

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Yes, IF you have a bunch of tips to try. The DQ6 went from my worst IEM to one of my favorites after finding the right tips (blue bgvp).


Could you explain the difference, before/after?


----------



## wopossum (Feb 14, 2021)

Jet Black said:


> How was your experience with the ibasso dc03? Has it a good sound quality?



I'd say it was a little bit difficult for me to notice any improvements in sound quality, it's my first DAC. Don't get me wrong though it's because DC03 has a neutral sound signature. You start to hear a difference when you're comparing your usual PC/Android capabilities. Everything you listen to without DC03 sounds flatter, as if there's less dynamic.
People were claiming that DC03 for ZAX is a little bit overkill, now looking back I'd say they were right, ZAX is easily driveable. But even then, everything (lows/mids/highs) is more controlled, attack/decay feels better and most noticeable - no noise floor or hiss. I should say that DC03 should be still a nice choice for anything in a higher range of IEMs.


----------



## astermk (Feb 14, 2021)

wopossum said:


> I'd say it was a little bit difficult for me to notice any improvements in sound quality, it's my first DAC. Don't get me wrong though it's because DC03 has a neutral sound signature. You start to hear a difference when you're comparing your usual PC/Android capabilities. Everything you listen to without DC03 sounds flatter, as if there's less dynamic.
> People were claiming that DC03 for ZAX is a little bit overkill, now looking back I'd say they were right, ZAX is easily driveable. But even then, everything (lows/mids/highs) is more controlled, attack/decay feels better and most noticeable - no noise floor or hiss. I should say that DC03 should be still a nice choice for anything in a higher range of IEMs.


While I also EQ my ZAX with a touch more sub bass, I wouldn't straight up call them lacking in sub bass - if anything, they have a very sizable bass boost across the entire bass shelf, it's just that it's a moderate boost as opposed to a full on basshead tuning. The KZ "house" sound just tends to prioritize midbass over subbass a little bit, so while the subbass is still something like 7-8dB above neutral, it's rolled off ever so slightly behind the midbass, and I like a bit more of a linear bass shelf.


----------



## guido

ZAX may be easy to drive straight out of a phone , but boy do they scale up nicely out of the FiiO Q5s TC ....I can't go back to listening to them without it..

It's not so much about the driving power of a good amp\dac but more about the quality and resolution of what you feed them...


----------



## astermk

guido said:


> ZAX may be easy to drive straight out of a phone , but boy do they scale up nicely out of the FiiO Q5s TC ....I can't go back to listening to them without it..
> 
> It's not so much about the driving power of a good amp\dac but more about the quality and resolution of what you feed them...


I've heard them out of a FiiO Q1 Mk II and a Topping DX3 Pro. Absolute no massive difference to speak of, minor improvements at best.


----------



## Jitu13

Ok, the weirdest thing happened today. I was just watching a YouTube review in my zs10 pro, and all of a sudden, I hear this "in your face, boom". It was a literal beat drop out of the blue. It really felt like a genuine sound, but I knew there shouldn't be any. I hooked up another of my iem, and sure enough it was just his hand gently making a thud sound in the table . It's fun sounding alright, just too much sometimes.


----------



## r31ya

Joseph Lin said:


> If ZAX is a bit better and also a bit cheaper than CKX, why do I keep CKX? Well, the fitting on CKX is much better than ZAX. It is very smooth that "melts" in my ear. ZAX on the other hand, pokes my ears from time to time due to the pointy shape, you feel its existence in your ears. The noise isolation is very good on both if proper size of tips are used.
> 
> Do they worth the money? Definitely! For around $70, they offer a very good listening experience that is suitable for study and work out. Wearing them for movies is also very satisfying. I won't hesitate to take them out in the public. They provide worry free, disposable background music experience without sacrificing too much of sound quality whenever you feel like it.



thank you, this might my first $50+ KZ/CCA sets which is fair bit more than most of my KZ.
Not to mention the price enroaching territory of iBasso IT00 and the like which usually associated as a step up from KZ/CCA


----------



## r31ya

astermk said:


> The ZAX can be bought for 49 bucks right now (actually, that's the price I got them for at launch too because promo codes) and the Z1R go for $1700. 80% of the sound for 3% of the price. Of course, the point is not to say that there is no reason to own endgame gear. The point is just to talk about how far Chi-fi has come. The ZAX is of course not perfect (I find the bass a little bloomy and loose, I think subbass extension could be improved a little bit, and they could do with being a touch less shouty in the pinna gain area) but I'm just amazed at how resolving and coherent it is at the price it goes for, with excellent technicalities and soundstage.
> 
> I'm surprised you find the ZAX pointy. It's actually one of the only KZs using that shell that isn't pointy as the corners on the faceplate are smoothed. The CCA C12 for example has sharp corners instead and boy can you feel them after a while.



Back then, one thing i seek from KZ that i haven't quite hear from them is the "round, textured bass". Granted i haven't tried KZ at price above ZS10 pro (in my audition with it, it have good punch but blunt or lack of texture). during my shortime with DQ6, its seems KZ moving to the right direction.

Also Bass resolution is the one that makes me buy TFZ-King series which have good deep textured bass.

that and KZ vocals tend to be "ok/decent" not exactly "great", tough it may be due to my audition with an custom iem played from cayin player which gives it wet thick vocals which i then look for in IEM. i need to listen to more high-end vocal to know whats "good"


----------



## IEMusic

I just received a 2nd pair of BA10s.   They sound VERY different.   The first pair sounds pretty much like Crin’s graph portrays.  A well balanced V-shape.  The 2nd pair has similar treble, but quite a lot less upper midrange, and a TON of mid bass and lower mids.  For me personally, it may be nice to have some variety between my 2 pairs, but this is some major inconsistency.   With my 2nd pair, I could definitely understand if someone didn’t like the sound of the BA10, if this is what they got.


----------



## Jitu13

IEMusic said:


> I just received a 2nd pair of BA10s.   They sound VERY different.   The first pair sounds pretty much like Crin’s graph portrays.  A well balanced V-shape.  The 2nd pair has similar treble, but quite a lot less upper midrange, and a TON of mid bass and lower mids.  For me personally, it may be nice to have some variety between my 2 pairs, but this is some major inconsistency.   With my 2nd pair, I could definitely understand if someone didn’t like the sound of the BA10, if this is what they got.


BA10 should get a star in your signature then.   BTW can you compare dq6 with zs10 pro?


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

chifihead said:


> Could you explain the difference, before/after?


Stock tips: dull and lifeless. Bass and treble were flat. Kinda like the cheap buds that used to ship with entry level smartphones 10 years ago.

BGVP A08 blue tips: thumpy bass, better treble, excellent mids, and remarkable sound stage (mostly wide). The mids in particular are remarkable--vocals are more intelligible. Bass and treble are just right, not too much.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLltOwr


----------



## IEMusic (Feb 14, 2021)

Jitu13 said:


> BA10 should get a star in your signature then.   BTW can you compare dq6 with zs10 pro?


While I have first hand experience with the sample variation, since it hasn’t been an issue with others, that I know of, I don’t think it’s right to label an IEM as having poor QC from my one experience.

The DQ6, IMO, is better balanced, with a more even tuning.   Both are V-shaped, strictly speaking, but the mids are more notably recessed on the ZS10Pro.  There is more bass overall on the ZS10Pro, but I find it better controlled and detailed on the DQ6.   Extension, both in the bass and treble, seem similar.   I think detail retrieval is similar overall as well.  I find imaging and timbral accuracy much better on the DQ6, without any metallic overtones.  I should note that with my DQ6, the sound chanced quite a bit with breaking in those 6 DDs.   The bass was boomy at first, and the treble was coarse.


----------



## tgx78 (Feb 14, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> I just received a 2nd pair of BA10s.   They sound VERY different.   The first pair sounds pretty much like Crin’s graph portrays.  A well balanced V-shape.  The 2nd pair has similar treble, but quite a lot less upper midrange, and a TON of mid bass and lower mids.  For me personally, it may be nice to have some variety between my 2 pairs, but this is some major inconsistency.   With my 2nd pair, I could definitely understand if someone didn’t like the sound of the BA10, if this is what they got.






Crin’s BA10 graph is hilarious.

look at the left channel. Somebody at KZ forgot to put a bass driver in there.

my unit:


----------



## G777 (Feb 14, 2021)

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Stock tips: dull and lifeless. Bass and treble were flat. Kinda like the cheap buds that used to ship with entry level smartphones 10 years ago.
> 
> BGVP A08 blue tips: thumpy bass, better treble, excellent mids, and remarkable sound stage (mostly wide). The mids in particular are remarkable--vocals are more intelligible. Bass and treble are just right, not too much.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLltOwr


The DQ6 stock tips are way too short. I used the extra tips that came with the BL-03 (the weird cone shaped ones) and now they sound great to me.


----------



## IEMusic

Yeah, I think I’m gonna have to return this second pair to Amazon.  It’s mud.   Good thing this one came from Amazon.  The first one came from AliEx.  At least L and R channels match well on sine sweeps.


----------



## TheVortex

G777 said:


> The DQ6 stock tips are way too short. I used the extra tips that came with the BL-03 and now they sound great to me.



I never thought about trying Blon tips on the DQ6 and I might try Sony MH755 tips on them as well.


----------



## G777

TheVortex said:


> I never thought about trying Blon tips on the DQ6 and I might try Sony MH755 tips on them as well.


The downside is that they make the IEMs stick out of my ear a lot more, which can look a little weird.


----------



## TheVortex

G777 said:


> The downside is that they make the IEMs stick out of my ear a lot more, which can look a little weird.



I am not worried about such things


----------



## voicemaster

IEMusic said:


> I just received a 2nd pair of BA10s.   They sound VERY different.   The first pair sounds pretty much like Crin’s graph portrays.  A well balanced V-shape.  The 2nd pair has similar treble, but quite a lot less upper midrange, and a TON of mid bass and lower mids.  For me personally, it may be nice to have some variety between my 2 pairs, but this is some major inconsistency.   With my 2nd pair, I could definitely understand if someone didn’t like the sound of the BA10, if this is what they got.


Luckily my 2nd pair of ba10 sounds exactly the same as my 1st one.


----------



## trumpethead

TheVortex said:


> I never thought about trying Blon tips on the DQ6 and I might try Sony MH755 tips on them as well.


MH755 tips usually bring out the best in most of my items... The size large gives me a nice tight comfortable fit with great isolation.. Wish I could purchase some separately from the earphones.


----------



## Jitu13 (Feb 14, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> While I have first hand experience with the sample variation, since it hasn’t been an issue with others, that I know of, I don’t think it’s right to label an IEM as having poor QC from my one experience.
> 
> The DQ6, IMO, is better balanced, with a more even tuning.   Both are V-shaped, strictly speaking, but the mids are more notably recessed on the ZS10Pro.  There is more bass overall on the ZS10Pro, but I find it better controlled and detailed on the DQ6.   Extension, both in the bass and treble, seem similar.   I think detail retrieval is similar overall as well.  I find imaging and timbral accuracy much better on the DQ6, without any metallic overtones.  I should note that with my DQ6, the sound chanced quite a bit with breaking in those 6 DDs.   The bass was boomy at first, and the treble was coarse.


I guess I should keep dq6 and zax in my radar! Not sure whether they will be worth it though. I will try other iems first, before giving them a go I guess.


----------



## tgx78 (Feb 15, 2021)

Modded my ZAX and now it’s comparable to the $500 ME700 lite (maybe a shade under) in terms of sound quality. Neutral sounding KZ FTW!
Modding is bit complicated, could damage the dynamic driver and definitely not reversible so I won’t disclose it here. If someone really wants one, PM me and I might provide a free modding service for 2-3 people here.



Spoiler: Frequency response 












Spoiler: Compared to the BA10











Spoiler: Compared to the ME700 lite


----------



## whirlwind

Which has the better slam .....ZAX / CCA CKX  ?


----------



## DynamicEars

tgx78 said:


> Modded my ZAX and now it’s comparable to the $500 ME700 lite (maybe a shade under) in terms of sound quality. Neutral sounding KZ FTW!
> Modding is bit complicated, could damage the dynamic driver and definitely not reversible so I won’t disclose it here. If someone really wants one, PM me and I might provide a free modding service for 2-3 people here.
> 
> 
> ...



can you chime in more details about your mod? magic foam damper? lol.. i believe they sounded great that way, just little boost on sub bass and we have killer tuning there


----------



## tgx78 (Feb 15, 2021)

DynamicEars said:


> can you chime in more details about your mod? magic foam damper? lol.. i believe they sounded great that way, just little boost on sub bass and we have killer tuning there



it requires bit of drilling lol




first I used one of this black high density foam and sliced it in 3 ways to make thinner discs.

opened the original ZAX metal nozzle and glued this thinly sliced foam underneath.

there are two vents on inner side of the ZAX shell and I enlarged the one without a damper by carefully drilling.
Using the no.2 sewing needle, I punctured a tiny hole on secondary vent right above the DD.

Constantly measuring them for a channel matching

I agree with you. Little low shelf boost around 125Hz would complete this mod nicely.


----------



## Pelicampe

G777 said:


> The DQ6 stock tips are way too short. I used the extra tips that came with the BL-03 (the weird cone shaped ones) and now they sound great to me.



Me too, re-use Blon tips on DQ6 and they fit like a glove. 
With NiceHCK C16 cable it's a beauty


----------



## wopossum

tgx78 said:


> first I used one of this black high density foam and sliced it in 3 ways to make thinner discs.
> 
> opened the original ZAX metal nozzle and glued this thinly sliced foam underneath.
> 
> ...



That was really nice of you to share this mod details, I think it gives more "direct" approach, but I hope everyone is careful enough.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Feb 16, 2021)

*CCA CTS:*

CTS came in about 48 hours ago.

I like it a lot but there are a few things that interested parties should be aware of before pulling the trigger.

The first is that pairing is somewhat critical. The CST did not play well with several of my DAPs or my phone  (Samsung A30s). Overall, they sound fantastic but they were slightly strident on several sources.

That being said, the CST paired very well with both the Plenue 2 and Plenue R. I've been listening to the CST on the PR for several hours now and I'm marveling that I've only had to shell out $12.99 for these. I ordered one silver and one gold. The silver CST arrived but the gold CST won't be here for a few weeks, reportedly.

In addition to its wondrous presentation (agreeable pairing required) the CST is hecka cool looking. Most of the promotional pics do it no justice. Look again at the promotional pictures above and then look at this pic.



Spoiler









In the raw the grain of the wood is quite prominent and there is very little glossy coating on the wood exterior.

Very cool!

I do like the cable and the strain reliefs should hold up for quite a while.

I should mention that I am not using the stock eartips but rather wide bore silicone eartips. With said eartips the CST is an affable in-ear with a mild "V" shaped presentation and a natural tonality.

Great job on this one but remember

If the CST doesn't pair well with your source you'll regret the purchase and they will sit in a drawer somewhere.
If they do pair well with your source then your CST should get a lot of use.



Spoiler









I expect my CST will be one of four DD in-ears to find its way into my ten IEM rotation.

BTW, someone made mention of the VJJB K4s being the best wooden something or other. I do have the K4s and I would describe it as a "fun" listen with bombastic midbass punch. The CST is a far more transparent presentation than the K4s but the K4s was far less picky about playing well with others (DAPs).









*DQ6:*

Yes, the DQ6 is one of my four DD IEMs in rotation.




Pelicampe said:


> Really love this DQ6 tuning.





RyuzakiL26 said:


> KZ DQ6 looks interesting maybe I'll buy it if there's another sale going on in Shopee, same is true for AS12 and BA10. 😎




All three (DQ6, AS12 & BA10) are a high recommendation IMHO.
The DQ6 may not have BA resolution but I still think it is one of KZ's best IEMs.
If you can swing it the CKX should also be on that list.





ShakeThoseCans said:


> I've been testing my new DQ6 for a couple of days.
> 
> I think the tuning is pretty good, closer to reality than some previous KZ designs. What strikes me the most, however, is the soundstage, transients, and percussion. There's pretty good separation and layering for a $27 IEM. But it's presented in a somewhat artificial fashion.
> 
> ...




I'm elated to see KZ take what they've learned from BA tuning and apply what is applicable towards a multi-DD set. They did a great job bringing the upper midrange forward without making it shrill and without negatively effecting the lower midrange. The upper bass and lower midrange are incredibly clean for a sub-$30 Tri-Dy. I suspect that the Unique Melody Tri-Dy and QDC Tri-Dy will outperform the DQ6 in resolution, imaging and layering but those IEMs are $1,300 and $320, respectively. Did I mention that the UM 3DT is, reportedly, slightly strident. To my ears the DQ6, at 90% off from the 3DT price, isn't.

To be fair, I did find heavily compressed tracks to display strident behavior on the DQ6.

Those of you with the DQ6 will find that the drum snaps on Cinderella's "Nobody's Fool" on YouTube are hard to take. That being said, I do have the same track pulled from a CD (44.1khz/16bit) loaded onto all of my DAPs and those drum snaps are much smoother.






Mouseman said:


> DQ6 sounds amazing, very fluid.



"Fluid" is definitely a good descriptive word for the DQ6.
A "fluid" and "punchy" delivery describes the DQ6 presentation perfectly, to my ears.




Pelicampe said:


> A really good tuning from KZ !



Your last graph here is probably the most useful graph I've seen in a while.
It documents the importance of tip rolling and how much an eartip can alter what one hears. The eartips that produced the yellow response offer a decidedly different presentation than the eartips that produced the light green response.
I can practically hear the difference just by staring at the two FR curves.

Thanks for posting. With your permission, I'd like to use the eartip FR chart in the future.



*CKX:*



saldsald said:


> Yes indeed I prefer the overall sound of the CKX over the NM2+. I actually like the bass, mid and treble better on the CKX not just the treble . The NM2+ may have better dynamic range, layering and treble extension (more air) but sometimes out of control to my ears - too loud, too quiet, and sometimes shouty.
> 
> I totally agree that "*The great KZ/CCA in-ears usually fall between the cracks". *
> 
> I think the small size of the CKX alone is enough for people to appreciate as there are 6 BAs and 1 10mm DD inside.





eclein said:


> I got my Silver CCA CKX’s today and I’m loving them!
> 
> Easily my favorite CCA/KZ IEM!
> These little babies become totally lost in my ear after a short while and the imaging they are providing makes like a large bubble of music all around my head, like a old sci-fi space helmet filled with music 🎶 it’s awesome!
> ...





eclein said:


> I own a ton of KZ and CCA IEMS and my favorites were BA10 and ZS10 PRO until I picked up a pair of Silver CKX IEMS! They are small, comfortable and sound phenomenal!
> 
> These are very good and getting better and at the $79 I paid a steal!
> They sound better or as good as units I own that cost 3-4 times as much. Do yourself a favor and look into the CKX!




The more I listen to the CKX the more I find that it sounds like a slightly more Vivid BA10. The BA10 has the more laid back presentation whereas the CKX brings everything forward and displays more micro detail.

The $100 (CKX *$80) plus aftermarket cable ($18) - per set) I shelled out is money well spent.




Joseph Lin said:


> I recently ordered almost all KZ earbuds and some CCA including CKX. I returned all of them except ZAX and CKX.





saldsald said:


> I think we have similar impressions on the ZAX and CKX except that to my ears the CKX is less V shape tuned and has quite a bit better tonal accuracy




KZ has been ridiculed for frequently releasing model after model with only slight improvements. I do get the frustration and pushback but I appreciate the progression and improvements.



Spoiler



ZS10 Pro to ZSX (taper 8kHz)




ZSX to ZAX
(for anyone that owns both of these please provide feedback on how the ZAX differs from the ZSX and more importantly how the ZAX differs from the ZS10 Pro in the next graph)







We know that graphs can not tell the whole story (stage, air, separation, layering, etc.).
Additional feedback from the community would be helpful.

Much appreciated.





Jet Black said:


> How does cca ckx compare to an old trusty kz zs10 pro?




CKX has more natural weight to midrange instruments and vocals which improves the overall presentation.



*ZAX:*



astermk said:


> The ZAX is much harder to fault -  it has a really minor issue with sounding metallic, and that's about all I can think of.





saldsald said:


> I also had the ZAX in fact and sold it as I could not deal with that metallic sound and that weird artificial sound on top of that.



The increasing number of reports regarding the "metallic" and "artificial" upper presentation is the only reason I have been hesitant with picking up the ZAX. Apparently, the pros are numerous enough for most owners to overlook its cons.
I suppose I'll have to invest some time going through the showcase reviews but any cliff notes from the community would be greatly appreciated.




Joseph Lin said:


> I recently ordered almost all KZ earbuds and some CCA including CKX. I returned all of them except ZAX and CKX. CKX's fitting is the best, very comfortable. Sound wise, ZAX is a bit better than CKX, better lower end extension. The high end is more airy as well. The tuning of these two earbuds are almost the same to my ears. I think both represent the best, true flagships of both brands.



Very helpful.

Thanks



*TOTL gear vs Budget gear:*



chinmie said:


> I've listened to IEMs and headphones above that up to the thousands of $, though there are some that i love, can't seem to justify myself to purchase them.. because i know even that won't stop me from buying and trying other things.



This is precisely why I actively sift through great budget gear.
Having a blast while doing so.




Joseph Lin said:


> It is not worth it to "upgrade" to AS16. AS16 has a tiny bit of improvement of resolution, but the bass is lacking. I am not a bass head, but a good quantity and good quality bass makes music sound more fun.



The AS12 is worth investigating.


*BQ3 vs CKX:*



BrunoC said:


> I was hyped by good reviews and bought it.
> My BQ3 might be a lemon, as it's totally the opposite sound of your description. But believe me, I have seen some others that share my opinion.





saldsald said:


> The BQ3 can easily be too bassy with the wrong cable IMO so maybe you can do some cable rolling first. The sound can feel quite wrong due to the excessive bass which bleeds into the mids due to the cable.





saldsald said:


> Maybe you should also try the BQEYZ BQ3. I think this and the CKX can easily compete with IEMs several times of their asking price.





Nimweth said:


> I do not have the CKX but agree with you about the BQ3, it has a warm gentle V shape with good tonality and it's one you can listen to without fatigue.



I have the BQ3 and find it to be extremely sensitive to eartip placement. Most eartips produce *mud* for me on the BQ3 but with extensive tip rolling I found a combination that brought about better balance in the presentation. The BQ3 needs eartips that will decrease the lower frequency response for the end user.

It makes a huge difference when trying to toe tape to epic tracks.


Warm and inviting on the BQ3.
Vivid/alive on the CKX.
Just...wow...on the DQ6.




Know your ears.
Know your eartips.
You'll have better success.


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 16, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> *CCA CTS:*
> 
> CTS came in about 48 hours ago.
> 
> ...




Love me some Robert Cray   

Can you by any chance compare the slam between CKX and Zax ?

I am a huge fan of the ZS10 Pro for the money!


----------



## Nimweth

Alpha Whale said:


> *CCA CTS:*
> 
> CTS came in about 48 hours ago.
> 
> ...



What type of tips do you use on the BQ3?


----------



## artatgray

Has anyone got access to the distortion measurements of the ASX? It's not a concern of mine, I'm just curious for research purposes... 📱🎧🎶 🤘🏾😷🤘🏾


----------



## DunninLA (Feb 16, 2021)

Just bought CCA C12 and CCA C16 (not CCA CA16), and much prefer the C12.

I liked the C16's BA bass fine for tunefullness and speed, but it lacked impact, slam or "feel"... doesn't make my foot tap.  Hear more, feel less isn't what I was after.  I tried using my computer's equalizer, and on my iphone8 the Spotify equalizer, but those equalizer settings seemed to have very little effect on the C16's bass.  Weird.   Beyond the bass issue, I felt the C16's mids and treble were a little too hot.   If I had kept them, I would have EQ'd the 2.5k and 4k bands down a little.

I like the C12's bass impact but it is too prominent for my taste.  However, fortunately for me that bass does respond quite well to EQ adjustments.  On Spotify I reduce the 60Hz and 125Hz a little each and to me the bass is perfect that way.

I now prefer listening to the CCA C12 a little more than my Sennheiser/Massdrop HD58X headphones.  The mids just seem a little more clear in the C12 (which is strange b/c Sennheiser 580/600/650 series is known for smooth, detailed mids).  By clear mids I mean both female and male voices seem to have a slightly better (lifted) timber, less husky with the C12s.  Oh, also I noticed on the graphs that the 1k band of the C12 was a little below the Harman curve, so I tried  bumping the 1k band up slightly and I do think it helps flesh out lower mids.


----------



## unifutomaki

Alpha Whale said:


> The increasing number of reports regarding the "metallic" and "artificial" upper presentation is the only reason I have been hesitant with picking up the ZAX. Apparently, the pros are numerous enough for most owners to overlook its cons.
> I suppose I'll have to invest some time going through the showcase reviews but any cliff notes from the community would be greatly appreciated.



ZAX is the IEM that I would hang on to if I could keep only one IEM out of my entire collection. Maybe it can be a tad artificial if you're looking for a reason to mark it down and male vocals are slightly recessed like many KZs, but it is smooth, dynamic, not harsh at all, and most importantly delivers a sense of openness and resolution that is hardly guaranteed in its price class.


----------



## courierdriver

unifutomaki said:


> ZAX is the IEM that I would hang on to if I could keep only one IEM out of my entire collection. Maybe it can be a tad artificial if you're looking for a reason to mark it down and male vocals are slightly recessed like many KZs, but it is smooth, dynamic, not harsh at all, and most importantly delivers a sense of openness and resolution that is hardly guaranteed in its price class.


I totally get what you are saying. Don't have the ZAX, but I do have the ZS10 PRO and my sentiments with those totally echo what you're saying about the ZAX.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 17, 2021)

I have a lot of work to do yet on my IEM rank list, but so far ZAX still impress me. I have them easily favored over ZSN Pro, AS10, TC-01, and EA1. For music, I prefer their tuning over the distant-sounding YBF; not sure about FPS gaming yet. Using ZAX currently with Legacy 3 cable and T2 foam or Spiral Dot tips.


----------



## tgx78

I just ranked my modded ZAX


----------



## wopossum

tgx78 said:


> I just ranked my modded ZAX



ZAX being close to CA Andromeda. I think that's odd.


----------



## Jitu13

tgx78 said:


> I just ranked my modded ZAX


Wait! The normal ZAX is that better than zs10 pro? o.O


----------



## astermk

Jitu13 said:


> Wait! The normal ZAX is that better than zs10 pro? o.O





The ZAX is a big upgrade over the ZS10 Pro and a safe buy for ZS10 Pro owners looking for something with a similar signature but better.


----------



## Jitu13 (Feb 17, 2021)

astermk said:


> The ZAX is a big upgrade over the ZS10 Pro and a safe buy for ZS10 Pro owners looking for something with a similar signature but better.


 And here I thought otherwise! Gotta put them on the watch list. What about zax vs ckx? Or are they totally different tonality wise?


----------



## whirlwind

courierdriver said:


> I totally get what you are saying. Don't have the ZAX, but I do have the ZS10 PRO and my sentiments with those totally echo what you're saying about the ZAX.



I have the ZS10 Pro also and I love it...sound is right there close with L3 to my ears.
I have the ZAX on my radar...just wondering if it is the better option over the CKX.
The ZS10 pro hits well above it's price point for blues/rock music.


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Feb 17, 2021)

tgx78 said:


> I just ranked my modded ZAX


i'm monitoring the NM2+ and the MT300, i found your ranking pretty interesting having the ZAX as the only comparison term.
i've read people considering NM2+ superior to the ZAX (even considering the two different technologies) but also people preferring the DQ6 over the NM2+ and this is very confusing to me.
the MT300 is also generally considered from being slightly superior to the ZAX to belonging to a completely superior tier, but you rank them far below the ZAX.

what am i missing?


----------



## chifihead (Feb 17, 2021)

ZAXon 7 said:


> i'm monitoring the NM2+ and the MT300, i found your ranking pretty interesting having the ZAX as the only comparison term.
> i've read people considering NM2+ superior to the ZAX (even considering the two different technologies) but also people preferring the DQ6 over the NM2+ and this is very confusing to me.
> the MT300 is also generally considered from being slightly superior to the ZAX to belonging to a completely superior tier, but you rank them far below the ZAX.
> 
> what am i missing?


Sound quality has three (not perfectly exclusive) aspects:
- Tonality
- Technicality
- Timbre

Tonality is very subjective. If one likes DF-neutral tonality, they would prefer a $50 DF-neutral pair to a $500 basshead pair. And vice versa.

Kind of like how someone would rather be in a hole in the wall jazz club than have a private concert by Miley Cyrus. It's subjective.

Technicality is the most universal. Pretty much everyone appreciates detail, soundstage, staging etc. Well I guess some people like smooth sounding pairs too so it's not absolutely universal.

Timbre is the most elusive. If you haven't tried pairs with good timbre you most likely won't care about it.

So out of the three aspects, tonality is subjective and timbre is elusive. I can very easily see someone preferring DQ's tonality to the NM2+'s (which can be harsh to some).

If you don't like sushi, it doesn't matter if the sushi is $200.

Also, the tips can make or break a pair.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 17, 2021)

tgx78 said:


> modded ZAX


Pray tell? =p What do I need; a chainsaw, a Wood Fairy's flute, and 3 sticks of pre-chewed raspberry mint bubblegum?


----------



## IEMusic

wopossum said:


> ZAX being close to CA Andromeda. I think that's odd.


Why?  It‘s based on individual preferences, and that ZAX is tuned/modded precisely to his taste.



ZAXon 7 said:


> i'm monitoring the NM2+ and the MT300, i found your ranking pretty interesting having the ZAX as the only comparison term.
> i've read people considering NM2+ superior to the ZAX (even considering the two different technologies) but also people preferring the DQ6 over the NM2+ and this is very confusing to me.
> the MT300 is also generally considered from being slightly superior to the ZAX to belonging to a completely superior tier, but you rank them far below the ZAX.
> 
> *what am i missing?*


Your own ears.

For better or worse, it‘s a very subjective hobby.  I agree with what @chifihead posted.


----------



## unifutomaki (Feb 17, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> Why?  It‘s based on individual preferences, and that ZAX is tuned/modded precisely to his taste.
> 
> 
> Your own ears.
> ...



If you polled me across several days and asked which I prefer out of the ZAX, SSP, SSR, TD06 and Smabat X1, I can't guarantee that my answer would always be consistent lol. Your preference also depends on what you're in the mood for.

What I do know for sure, though, is that throwing ever increasing amounts of money at the problem is no guarantee of listening nirvana. It's gotta come from within


----------



## ZAXon 7

thank you all for the replies, i mostly agree with you all, but allow me to ask my question in more detailed and direct way:

the more i listen to ZAX the more i feel that i'm hitting some objective limit in the extension of their comfort zone, there are songs with massive crescendos or even sound explosions my gear just can't reproduce without an audible deterioration of some of its technical qualities, mainly separation and resolution. (in my mind i use the word 'composure')
these days i've started to rediscover my Pink Floyd discography and this limit is becoming more and more evident mostly in their live recordings. I know that Pink Floyd sound is the most stressful for any gear, but i wonder which iem has the 'composure extension' going from Pink Floyd delicate intros to their devastating explosions.


----------



## whirlwind

I went ahead and ordered the ZAX it should be here Saturday


----------



## cr3ativ3

Hi all, today i got my first KZ iem , the DQ6 . i know its 0.75mm connectors , but my question now is , can i use "normal" 2 pin cables or are these wrong polarity ? 
Have QDC cables the right polarity  for KZ iems ? 

thanks for the help


----------



## CT007

Damnit, now I want a higher-end IEM that sounds just like ZAX lol. Any ideas..?

I wish KZ would just take the ZAX tuning and improve everything about the sound. But we know that probably won't happen 

And what is the mod for ZAX..?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

chifihead said:


> Sound quality has three (not perfectly exclusive) aspects:
> - Tonality
> - Technicality
> - Timbre
> ...



To add further, it's about how much one is willing to pay for incremental improvement in sound. For many folks even $50 is a substantial amount, so if one feels ZAX at $50 is what KZ offers as its absolute best product then something very similar (can't say by how many % as it is very speculative and no two individuals hear the same) is available at $30 with ZS10 Pro and ZSN/Pro at $15. And all this is also influenced by the music listened, source and tips used.

So in a way, comparison is subjective and one should refer to opinions whose tastes are similar to theirs else even a $2000 IEM can sound like airplane bundled earphones.


----------



## PhonoPhi

chifihead said:


> Sound quality has three (not perfectly exclusive) aspects:
> - Tonality
> - Technicality
> - Timbre
> ...


Very nice analogies!
I bet for suchi-averse people, $200 sushi could even make it worse with raw exotic ingredients 

Personal preference is definitely very important, as the tips and the source.

I chuckled before a bit on reviews describing sources as warm, etc. (after all, if you dare to visit Science forum - they will surely teach you that sources should be "transparent" )
Sabre for me so far - much prefer my older DAP and BTR5 (in a DAC mode) to Hidizs S9 and Sonata HD pro.

Recently, I got NiceHCK C24-2 cable (measures close to common 16 -core cables at ~0 4 Ohm, so just the looks  and psychoacoustics, of course) for my wide-nozzle ASX.




The modified ASX do everything for me, I did found my lucky match in sound preference.

P. S. Other than the joy above, DQ6 and ZAX are really great KZ IEMs at ~$25 and ~$50, respectively, in my opinion ( while ZS10 pro are really special as an epitome of KZ V-shape with mighty lows and very cheerful highs )

P. P. S. @cr3ativ3 - no any perceivable difference between 0.75 and 0.78 (my personal experience and of all others expressed here). QDC-like 2-pin cables are widely available, they are meant for KZ and work fine. Common 2-pin cables do fit QDC (blue dots outside if no earguides), and can be fine, but with some reliability/aesthetic limitations.


----------



## whirlwind

In the USA the ZAX is close to $70 and the ZS10 Pro is close to $50. I am assuming most here must buy from Ali Express


----------



## cr3ativ3

PhonoPhi said:


> Very nice analogies!
> I bet for suchi-averse people, $200 sushi could even make it worse with raw exotic ingredients
> 
> Personal preference is definitely very important, as the tips and the source.
> ...



thanks , I’m using a qdc 4.4 cable at the moment , was just worried about the right polarity.


----------



## DunninLA (Feb 17, 2021)

whirlwind -- buying in the USA, there is an equally good argument for using Amazon, where you can return for free (at least I can with Prime) and have it in your hands in two days,  vs. paying 2/3 from aliexpress and getting it in 2-3 weeks and not worth the trouble to return it if you don't like it.   Problem is really new IEMs like the T2plus have no discount on aliexpress.  So no reason to buy the T2 there.  But take IEMs out for more than a year...like the CCA C12... $48 on Amazon and $29 on aliexpress.  Or the BLON BL-03 which is $39 on Amazon and $26 on aliexpress.

Given that I have about a 50% hit rate with IEM's, I'd rather paying Amazon's price and buy two competing choices, pick the one I like better, and return the loser for free.   And if I already like an IEM and want a backup or replacement, or want to gift one, makes more sense for me to then take the aliexpress discount.  $29 vs. $48 is just obscene.


----------



## wopossum

IEMusic said:


> Why? It‘s based on individual preferences, and that ZAX is tuned/modded precisely to his taste.



That's what I find to be confusing. In the technical aspect, it should be obvious that Andromeda is way better.


----------



## RikudouGoku

wopossum said:


> That's what I find to be confusing. In the technical aspect, it should be obvious that Andromeda is way better.


Just because something is more technical, doesn't necessarily mean it is better.


----------



## wopossum

RikudouGoku said:


> Just because something is more technical, doesn't necessarily mean it is better.



There's no arguing, of course. I'm just more concerned about what the author used as his general evaluation.


----------



## RikudouGoku

wopossum said:


> There's no arguing, of course. I'm just more concerned about what the author used as his general evaluation.


@tgx78 listens to classic music, where timbre is the nr 1 priority. I am assuming that the andromeda have worse timbre than the hybrid ZAX.


----------



## tgx78 (Feb 17, 2021)

Yep my first gen. Andro has pronounced BA timbre. I actually listen to modded ZAX more than Andro lately. Technicalities is not far off either. You will be surprised how much midrange detail there is when you tame the midbass on ZAX. Also there is no comparison when it comes to subbass between the two.


----------



## whirlwind

DunninLA said:


> whirlwind -- buying in the USA, there is an equally good argument for using Amazon, where you can return for free (at least I can with Prime) and have it in your hands in two days,  vs. paying 2/3 from aliexpress and getting it in 2-3 weeks and not worth the trouble to return it if you don't like it.   Problem is really new IEMs like the T2plus have no discount on aliexpress.  So no reason to buy the T2 there.  But take IEMs out for more than a year...like the CCA C12... $48 on Amazon and $29 on aliexpress.  Or the BLON BL-03 which is $39 on Amazon and $26 on aliexpress.
> 
> Given that I have about a 50% hit rate with IEM's, I'd rather paying Amazon's price and buy two competing choices, pick the one I like better, and return the loser for free.   And if I already like an IEM and want a backup or replacement, or want to gift one, makes more sense for me to then take the aliexpress discount.  $29 vs. $48 is just obscene.



I totally agree with you, I like Amazon's fast and free shipping, usually two days! Being able to send back is also a great plus as you are refunded almost immediately.


----------



## IEMusic (Feb 17, 2021)

cr3ativ3 said:


> Hi all, today i got my first KZ iem , the DQ6 . i know its 0.75mm connectors , but my question now is , can i use "normal" 2 pin cables or are these wrong polarity ?
> Have QDC cables the right polarity  for KZ iems ?
> 
> thanks for the help


I haven’t been able to perceive any differences between 0.75mm and 0.78mm.  My 0.78mm qdc plugs fit the KZs just fine, though there may be some degree of outward pressure placed on the qdc socket, even with the surrounding sleeve of the qdc plug.   I’m suspicious that frequent plugging/unplugging of 0.78mm plugs onto 0.75mm sockets, *may *contribute to the sockets cracking.  I’m not sure though.

Standard 2 pin plugs also work just fine.   I wouldn’t worry about polarity, b/c as long as you hook up the right and left cables the same way, it will sound fine.  Just like with speakers.



tgx78 said:


> Yep my first gen. Andro has pronounced BA timbre. I actually listen to modded ZAX more than Andro lately. Technicalities is not far off either. You will be surprised how much midrange detail there is when you tame the midbass on ZAX. Also there is no comparison when it comes to subbass between the two.


It is remarkable to me how quickly some budget IEMs are catching up to pricy, well established IEMs, with regards to more objective measures/technicalities......then again, when your Campfire Audio IEM and your KZ IEM both have Bellsing BAs....?


----------



## IEMusic

Just got a second pair.  I wanted the clear shell.





and I decided to pair it with this cable.    Works well together!


----------



## saldsald

unifutomaki said:


> If you polled me across several days and asked which I prefer out of the ZAX, SSP, SSR, TD06 and Smabat X1, I can't guarantee that my answer would always be consistent lol. Your preference also depends on what you're in the mood for.
> 
> What I do know for sure, though, is that throwing ever increasing amounts of money at the problem is no guarantee of listening nirvana. It's gotta come from within



So you have the new Smabat x1? How do you like it? I only found one single review in Chinese just wonder if the built-in switches are worth trying.


----------



## scratchmassive

IEMusic said:


> Just got a second pair.  I wanted the clear shell.
> 
> 
> and I decided to pair it with this cable.    Works well together!



The silver ones look way nicer than I expected. Are your others the grey or black ones? Please share a pic of those?

You gotta be pulling my leg with that cable.... right? 😱


----------



## IEMusic

scratchmassive said:


> The silver ones look way nicer than I expected. Are your others the grey or black ones? Please share a pic of those?
> 
> You gotta be pulling my leg with that cable.... right? 😱


Nope, I’m serious about the cable, but I didn’t buy it separately, it just came with the MEST IEMs.   Since I have the cable, why not use it.

Here is the other pair.


----------



## unifutomaki

saldsald said:


> So you have the new Smabat x1? How do you like it? I only found one single review in Chinese just wonder if the built-in switches are worth trying.



Hey there. I posted my thoughts and follow-up explorations in these posts:
Extended Impressions
Follow-up discussion on what the switches actually do
My EQ setting for the dual-driver mode
Listening update

In summary, I rate them pretty highly in terms of their compatibility with my specific preferences, but not because either of the stock tunings are done particularly well or because the ability to switch between those tunings is particularly compelling. You will see that I have had to change the cable, change the eartips, and pair them with a fairly powerful source and aggressive DSP to get them to sound acceptable. Is it worth it? For me, I'll have to say yes, very much so.


----------



## Jitu13 (Feb 17, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> Just got a second pair.  I wanted the clear shell.
> 
> 
> and I decided to pair it with this cable.    Works well together!


o.O are they(cable) made out of gold or something?? Ok I maybe wrong, but I hardly believe that this cables are worth this much!



saldsald said:


> So you have the new Smabat x1? How do you like it? I only found one single review in Chinese just wonder if the built-in switches are worth trying.


You can either wait for the response or go back a couple pages, you will find 2-3 pages worth of talk about Smabat x1, it's switch, mechanism, how to eq etc. Btw as you asked whether the switches work or not, you'll be in a surprise when you see the graph and all!

***edit: sorry it has already been answered, I should have refreshed before replying, lol.


----------



## cr3ativ3

scratchmassive said:


> The silver ones look way nicer than I expected. Are your others the grey or black ones? Please share a pic of those?
> 
> You gotta be pulling my leg with that cable.... right? 😱


Price ratio is very good on these .


----------



## Jitu13

unifutomaki said:


> Hey there. I posted my thoughts and follow-up explorations in these posts:
> Extended Impressions
> Follow-up discussion on what the switches actually do
> My EQ setting for the dual-driver mode
> ...


Maybe you liked the journey more than the sound??


----------



## Jitu13 (Feb 17, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> In the USA the ZAX is close to $70 and the ZS10 Pro is close to $50. I am assuming most here must buy from Ali Express


You can get ckx for $67, kz dq6 for 24.30 here in usa. So it's pretty close to Ali price. Its called head concert store, I bought two, seems good. Don't know about their return policy though. Also no ZAX yet.


----------



## unifutomaki (Feb 17, 2021)

Jitu13 said:


> Maybe you liked the journey more than the sound??



There might be a bit of that, of course, but I think the X1 has the necessary ingredients and tweaking potential to deliver a linear sound signature on a budget once one manages to balance out the bass and treble response around the stellar mids and vocals section. In terms of tonality, I could listen to my tweaked X1 all day without feeling fatigued or wanting to switch to another transducer - I like it a lot.


----------



## allaces305

Found a set of the Holy Grail KZ ZS5 V1 in perfect working order inside my bedside nightstand.. Forgot how nice these sound.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Feb 18, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> Can you by any chance compare the slam between CKX and Zax ?




Unfortunately, I do not have the ZAX just yet.

However, I will be ordering one set within the next few to see what all the hubbub is about.






with an upgrade cable to compliment the color combination.








I need to hear for myself how the ZAX differ from the ZS10 Pro.











Nimweth said:


> What type of tips do you use on the BQ3?



I found the Rock Zircon mediums (I usually wear large) work best for my ears on the BQ3.
YMMV










CT007 said:


> I have a lot of work to do yet on my IEM rank list, but so far ZAX still impress me. I have them easily favored over ZSN Pro, AS10, TC-01, and EA1. For music, I prefer their tuning over the distant-sounding YBF; not sure about FPS gaming yet. Using ZAX currently with Legacy 3 cable and T2 foam or Spiral Dot tips.



Please elaborate on why you favor the ZAX over the TC-01.

Much appreciated.





PhonoPhi said:


> The modified ASX do everything for me, I did found my lucky match in sound preference.
> 
> P. S. DQ6 and ZAX are really great KZ IEMs at ~$25 and ~$50, respectively, in my opinion.



My crazy sunrise-to-sunset working hours for the past few months should start to normalize in the coming weeks so I should finally be able to get to my ASF wide nozzle project soon.
I'm still waiting to find the BLACK DQ6 on Amazon so I can try the wide nozzle mod on it as well. I'm curious about how the mod will effect the soundstage width and depth on the DQ6.

If a wide nozzle mod smooths out the 7khz rise then the DQ6 will likely be in a class of its own amongst sub-$100 in-ears. As a successful sub-$100 Tri-Dy it already is in a class of its own but improved soundstage would, likely, elevate its status.



In the meantime, does anyone have new information regarding the new Z3 hybrid?






Edit:
Trying to get used to Head-Fi's new software upgrade.














Not a wireless in-ear guy, per se, but if that's the Xun dynamic in there then I will definitely be picking up a set of the Z3.


----------



## wopossum

tgx78 said:


> Yep my first gen. Andro has pronounced BA timbre. I actually listen to modded ZAX more than Andro lately. Technicalities is not far off either. You will be surprised how much midrange detail there is when you tame the midbass on ZAX. Also there is no comparison when it comes to subbass between the two.


Many of us will need to get a second pair of ZAX after this post. Including myself.


----------



## guido

we need a proper ZAX mod tutorial!!


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 18, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> Unfortunately, I do not have the ZAX just yet.
> 
> However, I will be ordering one set within the next few to see what all the hubbub is about.
> 
> ...





Alpha Whale said:


> I ordered the ZAX for the same reason as you...I want to hear the differences for myself between the KZS10 Pro & ZAX. I love the KZS10 Pro for blues/rock


----------



## unifutomaki

Alpha Whale said:


> Trying to get used to Head-Fi's new software upgrade.



The forum layout has become super jank on mobile


----------



## wopossum

Before we stop talking about KZ ZAX. I want you all to check an album called 
*"Mangekyo" (1975) by Yoshiko Sai.*

I'm not making this post because it's just a suggestion for any headphones. There's a lot of vocal dynamics on this album, good soundstage, and this is a great representation of timbre, details and attack/decay patterns. Even though I wouldn't classify this album as the greatest ever to exist(both in terms of art and as a testing material), it will show you what ZAX is capable of doing and what it's lacking(a reference to @tgx78 )

Remember: this is subjective. But I hope I would be able to help someone with this. Though it's hard to find this album in good quality, this is due to the fact that it's old and unpopular. If you will be able to find it, do yourself a favour, turn off the lights and listen to this in a quiet & comfortable place.

Album cover:


----------



## CT007

Alpha Whale said:


> I need to hear for myself how the ZAX differ from the ZS10 Pro.


Like, is ZAX the purple one..? Where do these non-color corresponding graph names keep coming from... +_+


----------



## saldsald

unifutomaki said:


> Hey there. I posted my thoughts and follow-up explorations in these posts:
> Extended Impressions
> Follow-up discussion on what the switches actually do
> My EQ setting for the dual-driver mode
> ...



Thanks! Your review/impression is so detailed. I think I am totally fine with EQ but the X1 seems to require too much EQ to sound reasonable. I also find it interesting that the switch actually disable the bass DD. Now I need to consider if I should get the ST-10s instead!


----------



## KCSweden

Got my KZ Z1 Pro and was really satisfied for a few days until the right unit started to malfunction with gradually decreasing volume over the span of a couple of days. It was barely noticeable at first but now the volume of the right unit is not even half of the left one. Anyone with a guess of what the issue might be and how to fix it?


----------



## Nimweth

saldsald said:


> Thanks! Your review/impression is so detailed. I think I am totally fine with EQ but the X1 seems to require too much EQ to sound reasonable. I also find it interesting that the switch actually disable the bass DD. Now I need to consider if I should get the ST-10s instead!


You could try the Smabat NCO instead. No need for EQ on these.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 18, 2021)

Can anyone compare BLON 01 to ZAX? Or is 01 just not at ZAX's level?


----------



## RCracer777

CT007 said:


> Can anyone compare BLON 01 to ZAX? Or is 01 just not at ZAX's level?


I admit I don't have the BLON 01, I have listened to it at a friends place. But this was a few months ago so take this with a grain of salt.

The ZAX is quite a bit better than the 01. This partly a preference thing as the ZAX is more balanced in comparison to the 01 which is has a more bass heavy tuning but both are technically v-shaped. That said the ZAX has better soundstage, imaging, is more resolving and has better fitment.
And if I'm correct that the TC-01 in your signature is the Tripowin TC-01, taking that in to consideration I personally wouldn't bother with the 01 as the TC-01 is said to be a step up from the 01.


----------



## whirlwind

Kudos to Amazon, the ZAX has arrived .

I will listen to a couple albums tonight while in bed.  I put on foam ear tips because no matter what I  try, I end up back to them.
I do like the KZ tips though.


----------



## saldsald

Nimweth said:


> You could try the Smabat NCO instead. No need for EQ on these.


Thanks, will take a look at the NCO.


----------



## IEMusic

Just got the ZAX.  Very early impressions, I’m liking what I’m hearing.  Tuning does have a lot of similarities to the ZS10 Pro, but execution is MUCH better on the ZAX.  Much better technicalities, in particular DD speed, resolution, and definition.   ZS10 Pro, while still a nice, fun IEM, sounds a bit like mud in comparison.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 18, 2021)

RCracer777 said:


> The ZAX is quite a bit better than the 01.


Cool beans. I figured this was the case. Real shame about the fit :/ I ordered DQ6 yesterday, but decided to cancel it, since ZAX will win there, too. I need a ZAX 2.0(and 3.0!). Where are you hiding. . . ?!


----------



## IEMusic

CT007 said:


> Cool beans. I figured this was the case. Real shame about the fit :/ I ordered DQ6 yesterday, but decided to cancel it, since ZAX will win there, too. I need a ZAX 2.0(and 3.0!). Where are you hiding. . . ?!


Imagine a KZ ZAX x Crinacle, with a very similar tuning to the Dawn, Dusk, Yume, Clairvoyance. 🤤


----------



## saldsald

CT007 said:


> Cool beans. I figured this was the case. Real shame about the fit :/ I ordered DQ6 yesterday, but decided to cancel it, since ZAX will win there, too. I need a ZAX 2.0(and 3.0!). Where are you hiding. . . ?!


You guys should really try the CKX.


----------



## unifutomaki

Seeing the hand-wringing over on the Drop 8XX thread about negative comments being deleted from the product page and Drop straight up saying that neither Sennheiser nor Drop will support buyers after the standard 2 year warranty period is up reminds me why I love ChiFi and budget audio in general. KZ can't even English properly in their own product pages, so it's hard to imagine how they would go about trying to manipulate prospective buyers; nobody gets paid for saying good things about a KZ; and non-existent warranty support doesn't hurt nearly as much when the thing costs $50 and you can just buy it again.


----------



## CT007

Poor HD800...  My best headphone friend, that I've never heard yet lol.


----------



## CT007

IEMusic said:


> Imagine a KZ ZAX x Crinacle, with a very similar tuning to the Dawn, Dusk, Yume, Clairvoyance. 🤤


I mean, would you say any of those are a ZAX 2.0? Or maybe there just isn't one yet.   God, KZ; hurry up already!!!


----------



## CT007 (Feb 18, 2021)

saldsald said:


> You guys should really try the CKX.


Yeah..? Haven't tried a CCA yet. You think they top the ZAX?

They seem to sound very, very similar, hm. Not sure I'm sold on this one.


----------



## artatgray

IEMusic said:


> Imagine a KZ ZAX x Crinacle, with a very similar tuning to the Dawn, Dusk, Yume, Clairvoyance.



That's easy enough to accomplish now: Graph their frequency responses and EQ the ZAX accordingly.

I've actually done that with several IEMs that Crinacle gave high marks to with my own ZAX. I was quite satisfied with the results. My favorites out the experiment were the Anole VX, AKG N5005, and Sony IER-Z1R. However, I wound up sticking with the Harman IEM 2019 target... 📱🎧🎶🤞🏾😎🤞🏾


----------



## tgx78 (Feb 18, 2021)

My ZAX sounds simply perfect now.
Endgame tonality with very good technicalities.

I’m having audio bliss right now. Tempted to move it up to my top five.




VS Zen.


----------



## baskingshark

tgx78 said:


> My ZAX sounds simply perfect now.
> Endgame tonality with very good technicalities.
> 
> I’m having audio bliss right now. Tempted to move it up to my top five.
> ...



How's the ZAX instrumental timbre?


----------



## tgx78

baskingshark said:


> How's the ZAX instrumental timbre?


Slightly plasticky but acceptable.


----------



## saldsald

CT007 said:


> Yeah..? Haven't tried a CCA yet. You think they top the ZAX?
> 
> They seem to sound very, very similar, hm. Not sure I'm sold on this one.


Just a sidegrade probably. Some may find the ZAX better and vice versa but it is always good to have more choices.


----------



## chinmie

IEMusic said:


> Just got the ZAX.  Very early impressions, I’m liking what I’m hearing.  Tuning does have a lot of similarities to the ZS10 Pro, but execution is MUCH better on the ZAX.  Much better technicalities, in particular DD speed, resolution, and definition.   ZS10 Pro, while still a nice, fun IEM, sounds a bit like mud in comparison.



Cool. I let go my ZSX just a few months ago because of new stuffs coming in, and also the fact that for my taste i seems to enjoy the ZS10 Pro more than the ZSX. I might swipe a ZAX in the future to replace the ZS10 Pro


----------



## saldsald

tgx78 said:


> My ZAX sounds simply perfect now.
> Endgame tonality with very good technicalities.
> 
> I’m having audio bliss right now. Tempted to move it up to my top five.
> ...


Makes me want to re-purchase the ZAX...


----------



## whirlwind

I listened to a couple of albums last night with the ZAX.
Joe Bonamassa - Royal Tea
Rory Gallagher - Check Shirt Wizard Live 1977

The easiest way for me to describe the sound is like KZS10 Pro on steroids. It is a keeper for me after just two albums of listening.
The Moondrop SSP will be going back to Amazon today....even though I love the fit, the sound is just not for me compared to the ZAX sound....much more weight to the music.


----------



## IEMusic

artatgray said:


> That's easy enough to accomplish now: Graph their frequency responses and EQ the ZAX accordingly.
> 
> I've actually done that with several IEMs that Crinacle gave high marks to with my own ZAX. I was quite satisfied with the results. My favorites out the experiment were the Anole VX, AKG N5005, and Sony IER-Z1R. However, I wound up sticking with the Harman IEM 2019 target... 📱🎧🎶🤞🏾😎🤞🏾


True, but I would still love a KZ IEM with the ZAX‘s technicalities, and premier stock tuning, where EQ is not needed.   There are many situations when you just want to plug-n-play.   I have nothing against EQ though.


----------



## CT007

whirlwind said:


> ....much more weight to the music.


Ha, look at us using our L3 cable, and not our L3. ^ ^


----------



## unifutomaki

I'm glad the ZAX is finally receiving the recognition it deserves - KZ really leveled up their game with this one!


----------



## CT007

unifutomaki said:


> I'm glad the ZAX is finally receiving the recognition it deserves - KZ really leveled up their game with this one!


I think you deserve a +1 recog point for being such a great, indispensable Audio Warrior, too. 👊


----------



## unifutomaki

tgx78 said:


> Modded my ZAX and now it’s comparable to the $500 ME700 lite (maybe a shade under) in terms of sound quality. Neutral sounding KZ FTW!






Yep, I think I'm understanding what you mean


----------



## whirlwind

CT007 said:


> Ha, look at us using our L3 cable, and not our L3. ^ ^


Yeah,I have a balanced cable on L3. I will probably grab a balanced cable for my ZAX as well.


----------



## unifutomaki

CT007 said:


> I think you deserve a +1 recog point for being such a great, indispensable Audio Warrior, too. 👊



You're too kind  I am but a small fry with lots more to learn yet!


----------



## scratchmassive

whirlwind said:


> Yeah,I have a balanced cable on L3. I will probably grab a balanced cable for my ZAX as well.


Is it worth getting an L3 when you have a ZAX? I'm contemplating the Thieaudio L3 or L4...


----------



## CT007 (Feb 19, 2021)

scratchmassive said:


> Is it worth getting an L3 when you have a ZAX? I'm contemplating the Thieaudio L3 or L4...


KZ ZAX vs L3 (Legacy 3):
I would take ZAX over L3, with no hard regrets. ZAX is just more natural sounding, and gets the job done for cheap. Both are good, though, but L3 just kept sounding less impressive over time for me. Fit is similar enough. ZAX has some really excellent qualities, such as the treble resolution, natural tone and overall presentation/balance.  L3 has a sound that's a little _too _safe, and less than natural sounding.

L4 has very hot and cold reviews, so who nose about that IEM :/


----------



## guido

ordered FiiO UTWS3 2-pin ....,will try with KZ ZAX


----------



## whirlwind (Feb 19, 2021)

scratchmassive said:


> Is it worth getting an L3 when you have a ZAX? I'm contemplating the Thieaudio L3 or L4...


Tough to say, I would need to compare them listening to the same albums. As much as I love the ZS10 Pro, I still prefer the L3, but that is just me and I am not sure which I prefer yet between L3 & ZAX but I am keeping both for now. I hate saying something is better than something else as it really is all just subjective and I am not one to rely on graphs much, I would much rather listen


----------



## IEMusic (Feb 19, 2021)

scratchmassive said:


> Is it worth getting an L3 when you have a ZAX? I'm contemplating the Thieaudio L3 or L4...


I don’t think so, regarding the L3 (this is a pretty big deal, as I’ve been a fan of the L3 for a while, other than its poor QC).  I don’t know about the L4.

While I like the tuning of the L3 more, I like almost everything else more on the ZAX.  I need to mess with EQ on the ZAX.  Honestly, just cutting the mid bass some would be all I need.   I’m actually perfectly happy with the upper mids and treble....thus far.  I have a lot more listening to do.

BA10, DQ6, ZAX, just....wow!  Kudos to KZ!


----------



## alleroy

Sorry if this is a noob question, But is there a balanced cable available for Zs10 or Zsx?


----------



## CT007

alleroy said:


> Sorry if this is a noob question, But is there a balanced cable available for Zs10 or Zsx?


Oh, they've got anything you need... The question is, does your wallet have enough available for a balanced cable for ZAX/ZS10?


----------



## G777

alleroy said:


> Sorry if this is a noob question, But is there a balanced cable available for Zs10 or Zsx?


Pretty sure you can get a cheap nicehck cable off AliExpress for around $10. But there are plenty of other options as well.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Feb 19, 2021)

scratchmassive said:


> Is it worth getting an L3 when you have a ZAX? I'm contemplating the Thieaudio L3 or L4...


Depends on your taste.
I’ve been KZ fanboy since 2017 after getting ZS5, almost all new releases including CCA brands (like CCA CS16 as the latest), the DQ6 was an odd ball that I really loved to see beside their usual multiBA challenges like ASX. I had L3 (so sad I didn’t realize they had EQ switch), if you are using 2.5mm balanced, I’d go L3 with much neutral (or spice-less) mid-trebles with sizable bass kicking in. ZAX on contrarily does better on 3.5mm normal cables, a bit U shaped balance with good and fun tonality.


----------



## CT007

AmericanSpirit said:


> so sad I didn’t realize they had EQ switch


Not missing anything. But the switches on LZ A7 _do_ do something lol.


----------



## JEHL (Feb 20, 2021)

Edit: wrong thread.

Edit 2: ZAX vs ZSX?


----------



## alleroy

G777 said:


> Pretty sure you can get a cheap nicehck cable off AliExpress for around $10. But there are plenty of other options as well.


Thanks. I couldn't find a 2 pin cable (only mmcx) in that shop, but there are plenty of them on aliexpress: since I am quite inexperienced in this field, what I would like to know is if, apart from quality considerations, any cable with a 2.5mm jack and 2 pin connectors would do the job.


----------



## unifutomaki

alleroy said:


> Thanks. I couldn't find a 2 pin cable (only mmcx) in that shop, but there are plenty of them on aliexpress: since I am quite inexperienced in this field, what I would like to know is if, apart from quality considerations, any cable with a 2.5mm jack and 2 pin connectors would do the job.



Some cables are better than others in terms of build quality and resistance. You might want to check out the Faaeal copper cable and the Tri Through cable.


----------



## whirlwind

I went for this cable for the ZAX.  Even these cheaper 16 core cables are a blessing for me as with the thinner cables can get to be a tangled mess .  Being balanced an having a chin slider is about as good as it gets for a cable that does not break the bank.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KBEAR-16-C...-QDC-Interface-2-5mm-4-4mm-Wire-/123815195000


----------



## G777 (Feb 20, 2021)

alleroy said:


> Thanks. I couldn't find a 2 pin cable (only mmcx) in that shop, but there are plenty of them on aliexpress: since I am quite inexperienced in this field, what I would like to know is if, apart from quality considerations, any cable with a 2.5mm jack and 2 pin connectors would do the job.


The cables should have multiple connection options under the "color" section. (This applies for most cables on AliExpress.)


----------



## AmericanSpirit

JEHL said:


> Edit: wrong thread.
> 
> Edit 2: ZAX vs ZSX?


You can find a comparative review on ZAX vs ZSX on Medium.
To me ZAX had slightly balanced tonality with better resolution and airness compared to ZSX.  The “wow” didn’t popped out of ZSX but ZAX did.


----------



## IEMusic

JEHL said:


> Edit: wrong thread.
> 
> Edit 2: ZAX vs ZSX?


100% ZAX.  It‘s on a whole different level of technical capabilities.

ZSX only if you want that deep, slow decay, really fun but flabby (in comparison) bass.  If that is what you want though, the ZS10 Pro makes more sense.   I have the ZSX and don’t know where it really fits in.


----------



## rggz

How's the DQ6 compared to ZAX bass and timbre-wise? I was going to buy DQ6 but the ZAX piqued my interest since the difference in price is small.


----------



## IEMusic

rggz said:


> How's the DQ6 compared to ZAX bass and timbre-wise? I was going to buy DQ6 but the ZAX piqued my interest since the difference in price is small.


I find the bass to be a little less on the DQ6, but the bass quality, with fast, well defined, detailed sound is the same.  The DQ6 sounds more natural, with a better timbre, as one would expect.   It is easily noticeable.

I don’t know which I like more as of yet.  The prices I’ve seen have the ZAX at about twice the price of the DQ6.  Though that difference is still small in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Feb 20, 2021)

rggz said:


> How's the DQ6 compared to ZAX bass and timbre-wise? I was going to buy DQ6 but the ZAX piqued my interest since the difference in price is small.


I don’t recommend DQ6 for anyone other than extreme odd-ball lover who have literally tried over 100s of IEMs, and got a general consensus of how IEM should sound like. ZAX is much more all rounder, my friend.  Also DQ6 is 3 DD and ZAX is 7BA + 1DD, they have pretty much different timbres, DQ6 a very rough and weird tone, vs ZAX generally acceptable highly resolving ones. Even considering DQ6 is roughly half the price of ZAX, I would still recommend ZAX to any friend who is looking a good sounding IEM.
DQ6 meanwhile is fun for like some weird live recordings of small jazz house, it does make some weird tonality with weird sound stage that could be one of a kind experience for someone got tired of well behaved and precise TOTL iems.
I have been odd ball lover, so DQ6 was much more of a surprise to me even with its lo-fi and weird phasing, because of that it makes itself as an odd ball.
Or it’s not KZ but i found HZSound Heart Mirror (single DD) around similar price range with ZAX, as a solid performer that I found it’s pretty close to moondrop starfield/KXXS.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 21, 2021)

RCracer777 said:


> And if I'm correct that the TC-01 in your signature is the Tripowin TC-01, taking that in to consideration I personally wouldn't bother with the 01 as the TC-01 is said to be a step up from the 01.


KZ ZAX vs TC-01:
TC-01 sounds like the music is on the other side of a wall, and you're listening to it through a hole in that wall. Distant, hall-like. Lower/sub bass is more emphasized, with too much rumble and punch, IMO. Overall balance is OK/good, with rather thin mids. Upper treble is a struggle for these, with cymbals and sometimes vocals falling apart. I find TC-01 more fatiguing because of the OP bass. These would have better competition with EA1, ZSN Pro and 01, although I find ZSN Pro only slightly inferior to ZAX.

ZAX sounds like you're there in middle of the room. Thicker mids. An overall fuller, sweeter, more balanced, enjoyable, pretty natural sound. Bass has good medium strength; not too powerful or light, with a tasteful, satisfying kick. Bass quality may be a tie, hard to tell. With heavy sub-bass, things can get a bit flabby/loose on ZAX. I generally don't have anything to complain about the bass, when listening to music. ZAX is like 4x more enjoyable to listen to everything on, with better resolution/detail, imaging, balance, tone, fit and more powerful price tag.  Acoustic instruments(woodwinds!) can sound particularly excellent, with the high amount of resolution and accuracy & air/space in the higher treble ranges. The treble has a tiny hot spot or 2 that can pop up, so these can be fatiguing in a different way from TC-01. Easy win for ZAX here.


*Bonus comparison* - KZ ZAX vs FD5:
ZAX has a better balance and more natural tone, but much less sense of distance/depth and space in the soundstage. All of the information that ZAX provides in its bass+mids+treble, FD5 basically has that much information in its bass and treble individually. So 1 FD5 = ~2.5 ZAX's(before tax and Celsius conversions). For general music listening, ZAX is a perfectly fine choice here.  But if you operate in 3D environments(such as FPS games), edit film audio, and have a special care for a much greater, more realistic sense of space, and/or bass and/or treble extension, there is a night-and-day difference(in favor of FD5). Once again, I find ZAX _still _impressive, and FD5 _still _amazing in what each are good at.


----------



## lgcubana (Feb 20, 2021)

*DQ6*
Originally I dropped a pair of the Tenmak Ultra Strong, 4.5mm, foam tips on the DQ6 and started the process of tuning with the PEQ, in the Qudelix-5K.  The DQ 6 is very friendly to PEQ tuning.  My objective was to have the DQ6 be my walking set, where I normally play Dancehall, Reggae.  But I was having issues with getting the mid bass to my liking; it was either borderline splashy or too recessed.  The fix was to swap to the only silicone tips that fit my ears properly:
Mandarin Symbio W knockoffs; which are now $8.99, on Amazon.

Just took a walk with the DQ6. The vocals now sound more natural; originally male vocals were a bit thin. The low end range is now expansive.  I get that subtle, visceral chest thump with enough mid bass to almost sound like a club.  For my sensitivity, I had to dial back the 2 kHz to 4 kHz a few db; but that’s normal for me. No discernible hissing or sibilant.


----------



## povidlo

lgcubana said:


> *DQ6*
> Originally I dropped a pair of the Tenmak Ultra Strong, 4.5mm, foam tips on the DQ6 and started the process of tuning with the PEQ, in the Qudelix-5K.  The DQ 6 is very friendly to PEQ tuning.  My objective was to have the DQ6 be my walking set, where I normally play Dancehall, Reggae.  But I was having issues with getting the mid bass to my liking; it was either borderline splashy or too recessed.  The fix was to swap to the only silicone tips that fit my ears properly:
> Mandarin Symbio W knockoffs; which are now $8.99, on Amazon.
> 
> Just took a walk with the DQ6. The vocals now sound more natural; originally male vocals were a bit thin. The low end range is now expansive.  I get that subtle, visceral chest thump with enough mid bass to almost sound like a club.  For my sensitivity, I had to dial back the 2 kHz to 4 kHz a few db; but that’s normal for me. No discernible hissing or sibilant.


Bro can you share your DQ6 peq settings for 5K?


----------



## lgcubana

povidlo said:


> Bro can you share your DQ6 peq settings for 5K?


----------



## JazzVinyl

whirlwind said:


> Love me some Robert Cray



+1 on Robert Cray!  
You should hear his "Strong Persuader" album via LP with a good preforming cartridge pre-amp.

Oh, My Flippin' Goodness!


----------



## courierdriver

JazzVinyl said:


> +1 on Robert Cray!
> You should hear his "Strong Persuader" album via LP with a good preforming cartridge pre-amp.
> 
> Oh, My Flippin' Goodness!


I've got that album...but on CD. Owned it for years and still love pulling it out often.


----------



## astermk

CT007 said:


> So 1 FD5 = ~2.5 ZAX's


If it's the FiiO FD5 you're talking about, they actually cost ~6.5x more ($49 and up for ZAX, $320 for FD5) and even if you're buying both from Linsoul, the ZAX is still $60 there so that's a 5.3x price difference.


----------



## whirlwind

JazzVinyl said:


> +1 on Robert Cray!
> You should hear his "Strong Persuader" album via LP with a good preforming cartridge pre-amp.
> 
> Oh, My Flippin' Goodness!


Yes sir, that is a great album....every cut!
Just a ripped 16/44 cd for me.....sure would like to get some high rez Robert Cray.







courierdriver said:


> I've got that album...but on CD. Owned it for years and still love pulling it out often.




Same here!


----------



## CT007

astermk said:


> If it's the FiiO FD5 you're talking about, they actually cost ~6.5x more ($49 and up for ZAX, $320 for FD5) and even if you're buying both from Linsoul, the ZAX is still $60 there so that's a 5.3x price difference.


Not really here for financial analysis, but I paid $299 and $69, which is 4.333:1.  

From the level of sound quality there is in the IEMs I have now(up to $349/DM8), I would not recommend anyone to spend more than that. Between ZAX/CKX/YBF and FD5/DM8/A7/Lokahi, there is some exceptional stuff(and I'm sure tons more coming). I don't really have a single IEM above $300 pulling at me, unless I want to go all the way to Z1R/MEST, or a headphone equivalent.


----------



## JazzVinyl

courierdriver said:


> I've got that album...but on CD. Owned it for years and still love pulling it out often.



I have it on CD as well.  And the CD sounds great.  But the LP exceeds it, in SQ by a generous margin.


----------



## IEMusic

I never thought I’d say this about KZ IEMs, even as competent as they have been for some time, but now they are playing in a whole different class IMO.  I know the BA10 is an older IEM, but it’s more that in concert with the DQ6 and the ZAX, I can honestly say, if came down to it, I would be perfectly content with only having these 3 IEMs period.

Now that they’ve improved the technicalities, if only they hired an expert tuner to refine those aspects of their IEMs.   They can always keep several fun V-shaped IEMs around.


----------



## Unolord

wopossum said:


> Before we stop talking about KZ ZAX. I want you all to check an album called
> *"Mangekyo" (1975) by Yoshiko Sai.*
> 
> I'm not making this post because it's just a suggestion for any headphones. There's a lot of vocal dynamics on this album, good soundstage, and this is a great representation of timbre, details and attack/decay patterns. Even though I wouldn't classify this album as the greatest ever to exist(both in terms of art and as a testing material), it will show you what ZAX is capable of doing and what it's lacking(a reference to @tgx78 )
> ...


Looked her up and I have to say that her album is really nice. Great recommendation.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 21, 2021)

CCA CKX is here... They fall out of my ears with the stock tips. Not enough nozzle length, and too weighty. Build quality seems great; sturdy metal shells, and no loose connectors like TC-01.  Same cable as ZAX, and same goofy QDC. Transparent white Starline tips.

*CCA CKX vs KZ ZAX*(no real burn-in for either):
Right out of the box, with T2 foam tips, these actually sound great. Nice balance, nice bass, good details. Very solid sound all-around. Bass has more definition, control and weight than ZAX(I think it's overdone a little, but not as wild as TC-01). It's a warmer, fuller sound than ZAX, by a decent amount. This is where you have to choose a bass preference(CKX) or a treble preference(ZAX). I think CKX bass can feel a little too boosted, and ZAX treble can feel a touch too bright(but not peaky).

CKX treble does not sound as bright as ZAX, generally, but it does seem to have a few, small rough peaks that can be annoying/fatiguing, at pretty high frequencies and somewhere around low-mid frequencies. ZAX treble is more refined/smooth, and probably a little more detailed with more air/space to breathe. So far, I'm calling this another win for ZAX, with less bass emphases, better treble, and more wow factor/pop in the treble/mids. Bass is probably the biggest difference, then treble. Other than that, these 2 sound very, very similar.

If only an Equalizer existed, that could equalize these 2 IEMs into a new, blended one that we could immediately purchase. . .  Actually, nvm; I just want a ZAX+, with better bass.


----------



## skreddy

Ahhh. I hate wide bore nozzles. The only tips that work for me with wide bore nozzle is triple or double flange tips. Triple is basically ear rape but I guess double is doable. I need some more double flage tips, I only have one pair. Any recommendations (ZS10 Pro) ?


----------



## whirlwind

CT007 said:


> CCA CKX is here... They fall out of my ears with the stock tips. Not enough nozzle length, and too weighty. Build quality seems great; sturdy metal shells, and no loose connectors like TC-01.  Same cable as ZAX, and same goofy QDC. Transparent white Starline tips.
> 
> *CCA CKX vs KZ ZAX*(no real burn-in for either):
> Right out of the box, with T2 foam tips, these actually sound great. Nice balance, nice bass, good details. Very solid sound all-around. Bass has more definition, control and weight than ZAX(I think it's overdone a little, but not as wild as TC-01). It's a warmer, fuller sound than ZAX, by a decent amount. This is where you have to choose a bass preference(CKX) or a treble preference(ZAX). I think CKX bass can feel a little too boosted, and ZAX treble can feel a touch too bright(but not peaky).
> ...



Thanks for the comparison between CKX and ZAX


----------



## BubisUK

lgcubana said:


>


What is this app?


----------



## IEMusic

BubisUK said:


> What is this app?


The app for the Qudelix 5K.


----------



## BubisUK

IEMusic said:


> The app for the Qudelix 5K.


Thank you. Do you know any realy good eq of such type for android? Need one for M11


----------



## RikudouGoku

BubisUK said:


> Thank you. Do you know any realy good eq of such type for android? Need one for M11


Neutron and UAPP both have PEQ. But it is for local files, so if you are streaming I dont know.


----------



## BubisUK

RikudouGoku said:


> Neutron and UAPP both have PEQ. But it is for local files, so if you are streaming I dont know.


Thank you 👍 I use local files mostly, so will give them a try.


----------



## crabdog

KZ is back! Here's my review of the KZ DQ6 for those interested.


----------



## RikudouGoku

BubisUK said:


> Thank you 👍 I use local files mostly, so will give them a try.


I use Neutron since its PEQ is a bit better than the UAPP, but the UI is pretty bad (you get used to it though).


----------



## 1clearhead

IEMusic said:


> I never thought I’d say this about KZ IEMs, even as competent as they have been for some time, but now they are playing in a whole different class IMO.  I know the BA10 is an older IEM, but it’s more that in concert with the DQ6 and the ZAX, I can honestly say, if came down to it, I would be perfectly content with only having these 3 IEMs period.
> 
> Now that they’ve improved the technicalities, if only they hired an expert tuner to refine those aspects of their IEMs.   They can always keep several fun V-shaped IEMs around.


+1 I can't believe how crazy good they sound for the price! Unreal, if ask me!
Wow! In technicality, soundstage, and transparency are really closing in to my DD champs, the NM2+ for a fraction of the price?

What??? 




-Clear


----------



## Alpha Whale (Feb 22, 2021)

CT007 said:


> Like, is ZAX the purple one..? Where do these non-color corresponding graph names keep coming from... +_+



ZAX is purple and ZS10 Pro is yellow.

Funny enough, your question makes my point. The graph is so close it was difficult to find a spot to mark where the FR levels differ.



Spoiler









I'll be able to provide more feedback regarding the actual presentation differences once my ZAX arrives.

I prefer this cyan/black combo more than the silver/blue or black/black combo.
The ZAX coupled to the black/black QDC 8-core I ordered will make a nice addition to my collection. 
I'm looking forward to hearing and comparing the ZAX to the CKX and the ZS10 Pro.











IEMusic said:


> Just got the ZAX.






IEMusic said:


> ZS10 Pro, while still a nice, fun IEM, sounds a bit like mud in comparison.



Wow!!

Quite a difference between the two, then.





IEMusic said:


> BA10, DQ6, ZAX, just....wow!  Kudos to KZ!



I definitely agree regarding the BA10 and DQ6 being two of KZ/CCA's best.

I did more extensive comparisons last night (DQ6 vs BA10 vs CKX vs AS12).

I'll have a more solid opinion on where the CKX sits (so far so good) but the AS12 definitely deserves its spot in the top tier of KZ/CCA releases.

Favorite KZ/CCA DD:   DQ6 (great balance of bass, midrange and treble)
Honorable mention to the ATR and ED3!

Favorite KZ/CCA all-BA:  AS12 (great balance of bass, midrange and treble)
Honorable mention to the BA10!


Favorite KZ/CCA Hybrid:   Undecided (ZAX hasn't arrived yet).


----------



## AmericanSpirit

crabdog said:


> KZ is back! Here's my review of the KZ DQ6 for those interested.


Nice review! My only hope for DQ6 is the stinky cable... no it’s not metaphor or something, it actually stinks with chemical odors. KZ please!


----------



## Makahl (Feb 22, 2021)

crabdog said:


> KZ is back! Here's my review of the KZ DQ6 for those interested.



Great review and big thanks for providing a graph! I can say you sold at least 1 pair.


----------



## courierdriver

crabdog said:


> KZ is back! Here's my review of the KZ DQ6 for those interested.


Nice review! I definitely see me picking up a set. I'm torn about which to get first, though: ZAX or DQ6. I have ZS10 PRO, which I absolutely love 💘.  But lately, I've been looking for iems that are different from what I already have. I have an all BA set coming (don't currently own a set like that) and already have 4 sets of DD single driver iems. I also have 3 sets of hybrids. I'm leaning towards the DQ6, atm. Nothing in my collection that features 3 DD'S in a single shell. Really think I need to get the DQ6. For the money, it's a tempting good deal.


----------



## IEMusic

courierdriver said:


> Nice review! I definitely see me picking up a set. I'm torn about which to get first, though: ZAX or DQ6. I have ZS10 PRO, which I absolutely love 💘.  But lately, I've been looking for iems that are different from what I already have. I have an all BA set coming (don't currently own a set like that) and already have 4 sets of DD single driver iems. I also have 3 sets of hybrids. I'm leaning towards the DQ6, atm. Nothing in my collection that features 3 DD'S in a single shell. Really think I need to get the DQ6. For the money, it's a tempting good deal.


I’d go for the DQ6 in that situation.  It has a different tuning and overall sound compared to the ZS10 Pro, so it will add variety.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 22, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> I'm torn about which to get first, though: ZAX or DQ6.


I should have DQ6 in tonight, to give another comparison/opinion. But I can't help you decide which first; only which I think is better ;p


----------



## courierdriver

IEMusic said:


> I’d go for the DQ6 in that situation.  It has a different tuning and overall sound compared to the ZS10 Pro, so it will add variety.


Thanks for the rec @IEMusic . I'm looking forward to getting it during the Aliexpress birthday sale


----------



## JazzVinyl

crabdog said:


> KZ is back! Here's my review of the KZ DQ6 for those interested.



Nice review Crabby...

My DQ6 are inbound and I use the same tips you show in your image...love them!


----------



## IEMusic

I can’t put my finger on it exactly, but there is something unique about the sonic presentation of a tri-DD IEM that really appeals to me.  It just clicks with the way I perceive things, and both the UM 3DT and the KZ DQ6 sound very lively, dynamic, and realistic to me.  However, I suspect that for some others, it doesn’t click in that same way.  I completely respect the opinions of those that don’t really like these two IEMs, but I can’t help but think that there‘s something more than just tonality and technicalities that influence our different views of these IEMs.  Just a thought.


----------



## CT007 (Feb 23, 2021)

KZ DQ6, right out of the box... These clear tips are very thin and light. They probably won't offer much sealing properties; probably not worth bothering with. Same cable as ZAX. The end of the nozzle is tapered, from a rather large rim. Build seems great. They look cool, and feel nice.




First attempt with stock tips, they aren't really getting into my ear much. Switching to T2 foams, _much _better fit and seal. The sound is nice & smooth. Bass is rather light. Treble is somewhat subdued, but still has quite nice sparkle and detail, with good space, depth and separation. These seem to need a little more power than ZAX and CKX. I am underwhelmed by the bass quantity, as most people seem to be from this 3-DD, but the quality is noticeably decent(not good or great, IMO), at least. Vocals pretty good, a touch back. Guitars pretty good. Tone also pretty good, though a bit on the dark+warm side of natural. Decently engaging...but I feel they still are lacking in the lower bass & mid weight. The sound is good, but still mildly light and lacking resolution. I'm finding the bass a little wonky, like it's missing a big chunk somewhere... Mids are quite clear and nicely done. It sounds interesting enough(good, but not that good), and has a hell of a tight fit lol, but I'm definitely taking ZAX here again, so far. Better balance, resolution, natural tone, and stronger pricetag. 🦾 Man, I  these things. ZAX are my current fav IEMs for music right now!! o_o


----------



## G777

I use my HE400i as reference so coming from that I think the bass quantity on the DQ6 is pretty good


----------



## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> KZ DQ6, right out of the box... These clear tips are very thin and light. They probably won't offer much sealing properties; probably not worth bothering with. Same cable as ZAX. The end of the nozzle is tapered, from a rather large rim. Build seems great. They look cool, and feel nice.
> 
> 
> First attempt with stock tips, they aren't really getting into my ear much. Switching to T2 foams, _much _better fit and seal. The sound is nice & smooth. Bass is rather light. Treble is somewhat subdued, but still has quite nice sparkle and detail, with good space, depth and separation. These seem to need a little more power than ZAX and CKX. I am underwhelmed by the bass quantity, as most people seem to be from this 3-DD, but the quality is noticeably decent(not good or great, IMO), at least. Vocals pretty good, a touch back. Guitars pretty good. Tone also pretty good, though a bit on the dark+warm side of natural. Decently engaging...but I feel they still are lacking in the lower bass & mid weight. The sound is good, but still mildly light and lacking resolution. I'm finding the bass a little wonky, like it's missing a big chunk somewhere... Mids are quite clear and nicely done. It sounds interesting enough(good, but not that good), and has a hell of a tight fit lol, but I'm definitely taking ZAX here again, so far. Better balance, resolution, natural tone, and stronger pricetag. 🦾 Man, I  these things. ZAX are my current fav IEMs for music right now!! o_o



If you want bass, the BA10 imho has the best bass from any KZ that I've tried so far.


----------



## JEHL

G777 said:


> I use my HE400i as reference so coming from that I think the bass quantity on the DQ6 is pretty good


HE400i rolls off the subbass. Doesnt it?


----------



## nraymond

JEHL said:


> HE400i rolls off the subbass. Doesnt it?


It does, which is why I sold mine a year ago. Not many open back circumaural headphones have much sub-bass. Not hard for IEMs to outdo them in that regard.


----------



## G777

JEHL said:


> HE400i rolls off the subbass. Doesnt it?


Yup, and I prefer it that way. I can still bring it back up with EQ, but if I want big bass I just use my IEMs.


----------



## JEHL

G777 said:


> Yup, and I prefer it that way. I can still bring it back up with EQ, but if I want big bass I just use my IEMs.


I feel uncomfortable with the implication that flat=big.


----------



## G777

JEHL said:


> I feel uncomfortable with the implication that flat=big.


Well, all of the IEMs I own have emphasized bass anyways.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

If folks are still looking for a ZS7, then they're available on QKZ website. Not sure if they're genuine or not but the price is almost $20-25 more than it's original retail price of around $35-40 in 2018-19.

https://qkzheadphone.com/product/kz-zs7-special-edition-balanced-armature-earphone/


----------



## Tonymac136

IEMusic said:


> I can’t put my finger on it exactly, but there is something unique about the sonic presentation of a tri-DD IEM that really appeals to me.  It just clicks with the way I perceive things, and both the UM 3DT and the KZ DQ6 sound very lively, dynamic, and realistic to me.  However, I suspect that for some others, it doesn’t click in that same way.  I completely respect the opinions of those that don’t really like these two IEMs, but I can’t help but think that there‘s something more than just tonality and technicalities that influence our different views of these IEMs.  Just a thought.



I disagree, although I totally get where you're coming from. To me, where a single DD sounds "right" the DQ6 sounds ever so slightly "off", tiny little inconsistencies at certain frequencies that just take the edge off it slightly. I suspect it's down to tastes in music and also what we are used to with Hifi gear.
Similar story with hybrids. I know they're good. I can hear they're good. I just dont like them.


----------



## IEMusic

Tonymac136 said:


> I disagree, although I totally get where you're coming from. To me, where a single DD sounds "right" *the DQ6 sounds ever so slightly "off"*, tiny little inconsistencies at certain frequencies that just take the edge off it slightly. I suspect it's down to tastes in music and also what we are used to with Hifi gear.
> Similar story with hybrids. I know they're good. I can hear they're good. I just dont like them.


That’s pretty much my point.  While it sounds really good and cohesive to me, with all kinds of music genres, it sounds “off” to you and many others.   It just doesn’t click.  There is something different about the presentation.


----------



## saldsald

IEMusic said:


> That’s pretty much my point.  While it sounds really good and cohesive to me, with all kinds of music genres, it sounds “off” to you and many others.   It just doesn’t click.  There is something different about the presentation.


IMO the DQ6 is pretty good but lacks definition as the 3 drivers are on the low Def side but that is exactly why they sounds so cohesive together. It would be perfect to me if they put 2 more BAs on each side for the higher frequencies and replace the 10mm DD with the one on the ZAX/CKX. But then that won't be he DQ6 anymore.


----------



## JEHL

Makes me wonder if this means that the ZAX's only glaring imperfection tuning wise is the high lower mid to upper mid contrast. That and technically ZAX's treble extension is below my threshold of audibility, but I personally digress about the latter.


----------



## courierdriver (Feb 23, 2021)

So, tonight I've been listening to my ZS10 PRO's; hooked up to my Fiio Q1MK2 via the Fiio CL06 OTG cable to my Samsung S20 smartphone. Listening via Spotify (downloaded content, from my SD card). I'll list some music before I get off here. I started off my listening session with the BLON BL01; but it wasn't doing it for me. It's a nice set, but I think that the BL03 is much better (and fits me better also). Went from the Blon-01 to the ZS10 PRO after about a half hour. Wow! What a great sounding difference to me. ZS10 PRO is much more comfortable  and offers much better details and soundstage. Tonight's session is going to keep me from buying DQ6 or ZAX. I love the sound signature of the ZS10 PRO. When my original set broke at the raised connector in the left channel...I immediately replaced them. Not even a second thought. The bass, the clarity and resolution, and the wide stage; have me hooked. So, here's what I've been listening to tonight to make these comments:


Edit: Just to be clear...I highly recommend the ZS10 PRO for anyone who is looking for a great, inexpensive set of iems, that do almost everything well. Imho, this set for around $45 or less; blows away some much more expensive competition. Just change out the stock cable and maybe the tips. This is still in my top 5 iems list.


----------



## guido (Feb 24, 2021)

ZAX with the FiiO UTWS3 wireless adapters....sound amazing!!


----------



## astermk

courierdriver said:


> I love the sound signature of *the ZS10 PRO*. When my original set broke at the raised connector in the left channel...I immediately replaced them. Not even a second thought. The bass, the clarity and resolution, and *the wide stage*;


I've heard/owned 5 KZ IEMs so far: ZST, ZS10 Pro, CCA C12, CA16, and ZAX. The ZS10 Pro has literally the smallest stage among these, maybe with the exception of the ZST which are KZ's first budget hybrid IEM. The ZAX have the best stage and it's not close. So while I agree that the ZS10 Pro are a monster IEM for the price, I really wouldn't call their stage wide. It's nothing special, even cramped.


----------



## saldsald

courierdriver said:


> So, tonight I've been listening to my ZS10 PRO's; hooked up to my Fiio Q1MK2 via the Fiio CL06 OTG cable to my Samsung S20 smartphone. Listening via Spotify (downloaded content, from my SD card). I'll list some music before I get off here. I started off my listening session with the BLON BL01; but it wasn't doing it for me. It's a nice set, but I think that the BL03 is much better (and fits me better also). Went from the Blon-01 to the ZS10 PRO after about a half hour. Wow! What a great sounding difference to me. ZS10 PRO is much more comfortable  and offers much better details and soundstage. Tonight's session is going to keep me from buying DQ6 or ZAX. I love the sound signature of the ZS10 PRO. When my original set broke at the raised connector in the left channel...I immediately replaced them. Not even a second thought. The bass, the clarity and resolution, and the wide stage; have me hooked. So, here's what I've been listening to tonight to make these comments:
> 
> 
> Edit: Just to be clear...I highly recommend the ZS10 PRO for anyone who is looking for a great, inexpensive set of iems, that do almost everything well. Imho, this set for around $45 or less; blows away some much more expensive competition. Just change out the stock cable and maybe the tips. This is still in my top 5 iems list.



FYI, from what I have just measured (still experimentally with my new rig...), the ZS10 Pro actually has a rather similar curve to that of the new BL-01 if I didn't introduce any source of error during the measurements. Maybe you can try the BL-01. 





Purple BL-01, Blue-ish ZS10Pro


----------



## baskingshark

saldsald said:


> FYI, from what I have just measured (still experimentally with my new rig...), the ZS10 Pro actually has a rather similar curve to that of the new BL-01 if I didn't introduce any source of error during the measurements. Maybe you can try the BL-01.
> 
> 
> 
> Purple BL-01, Blue-ish ZS10Pro



They are actually very different sonically. Graphs don't really tell the full story, and are just a general indication of the frequency response.

BLON BL-01 has better timbral accuracy for acoustic instruments, but is weaker in technicalities such as microdetails, imaging, instrument separation. Also, BLON BL-01 requires amping, whereas the ZS10 Pro is very easy to drive.  Bass is tighter on the BL-01 too, and isn't as peaky in the treble when it is amped, compared to the ZS10 Pro. ZS10 Pro has better fit than the BL-01.


----------



## saldsald (Feb 24, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> They are actually very different sonically. Graphs don't really tell the full story, and are just a general indication of the frequency response.
> 
> BLON BL-01 has better timbral accuracy for acoustic instruments, but is weaker in technicalities such as microdetails, imaging, instrument separation. Also, BLON BL-01 requires amping, whereas the ZS10 Pro is very easy to drive.  Bass is tighter on the BL-01 too, and isn't as peaky in the treble when it is amped, compared to the ZS10 Pro. ZS10 Pro has better fit than the BL-01.


Yes I understand they actually sound quite different. But to my ears they actually have similar technicality and it is just very interesting to see how similar their curves look. That's why I think it is worth a try.

Edit: the BL-01 sounds incredible (!!! and I didn't like it at all) now after EQ according to my measurements.


----------



## Nimweth

Dani157 said:


> If folks are still looking for a ZS7, then they're available on QKZ website. Not sure if they're genuine or not but the price is almost $20-25 more than it's original retail price of around $35-40 in 2018-19.
> 
> https://qkzheadphone.com/product/kz-zs7-special-edition-balanced-armature-earphone/


They are also available here:
https://gbr.grandado.com/products/c...rphone-kz-zs6-as10-zst?variant=36497301700757


----------



## whirlwind

courierdriver said:


> So, tonight I've been listening to my ZS10 PRO's; hooked up to my Fiio Q1MK2 via the Fiio CL06 OTG cable to my Samsung S20 smartphone. Listening via Spotify (downloaded content, from my SD card). I'll list some music before I get off here. I started off my listening session with the BLON BL01; but it wasn't doing it for me. It's a nice set, but I think that the BL03 is much better (and fits me better also). Went from the Blon-01 to the ZS10 PRO after about a half hour. Wow! What a great sounding difference to me. ZS10 PRO is much more comfortable  and offers much better details and soundstage. Tonight's session is going to keep me from buying DQ6 or ZAX. I love the sound signature of the ZS10 PRO. When my original set broke at the raised connector in the left channel...I immediately replaced them. Not even a second thought. The bass, the clarity and resolution, and the wide stage; have me hooked. So, here's what I've been listening to tonight to make these comments:
> 
> 
> Edit: Just to be clear...I highly recommend the ZS10 PRO for anyone who is looking for a great, inexpensive set of iems, that do almost everything well. Imho, this set for around $45 or less; blows away some much more expensive competition. Just change out the stock cable and maybe the tips. This is still in my top 5 iems list.




I love the KZ ZS10 Pro also....very engaging IEM.


----------



## rambomhtri

Hi, I own the KZ ZS7, which have a connection that is referred as "type A":





I'd love to purchase their new Bluetooth 5.0 cable, but they sell it only in type B and type C versions:






Have any of you tried to transform any of these 2 versions into the type A by cutting carefully the rubber/plastic all around, exposing the correct length of the pins so it fits the type A cable?

I actually have one KZ IEM with a type C pin, and I would swear that it would totally fit if I cut out the plastic around the pins.


----------



## guido

yes that will work no problem..


----------



## doctorstrobe

Yes, I modified a ZST cable (type b) to fit the ZS5 which has that same type a cable. I used a small pair of electronics clippers to trim the plastic rim away. It fits great.


----------



## rambomhtri (Feb 24, 2021)

Fantastic NEWS! Thank you I'm ordering one now!
Oh, wait, would you say it's easier to modify the type B or type C cable?

I have not seen ever a type B cable so I can't tell, but my type C looks like it has room for a perfect fit after the proper cut. Type B looks, at least from the pictures, as if the 2 pins were submerged into the plastic and that I would need to cut and carve all the solid material around the 2 pins. Type C have the 2 pins "flying", the plastic doesn't fill all the hole, so I would just have to cut the sleeve around and that's it, no carving in between the pins or anything.

By the way, I'm gonna buy as well a regular cable. I don't know which one of these two:



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000203984982.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.211e3c00aRgnOz&mp=1




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33035223466.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.211e3c00aRgnOz&mp=1

The price is pretty similar. I really like the 90º connector since it's way more convenient than a straight one, but I do like the black color more, plus the black one from TRN looks a tiny better in quality (or looks like?). *This type A pin comes in 0.78mm and 0.75mm*, which one is the correct for ZS7s?
Do you know any other better cable?

I was very happy with the original KZ one, looked indestructible. Months later I realized it was pretty crappy: with just 2 twisted cables going to the IEM, they broke so easily, besides, the plastic wrap they have becomes very fragile and breakable. After a few months of use, humidity, cold and heat, you can literally "snap" or crack it like a KitKat bar. That's why I'm looking for a big PHAT cable with multiple braided/stranded cables that will never suffer that.


----------



## doctorstrobe

Just looked at both. The type B has less plastic to remove. Neither would require removing any plastic between the pins. It’s just the plastic around the rim.

The KZ box says 0.75mm pin type.


----------



## G777

rambomhtri said:


> Fantastic NEWS! Thank you I'm ordering one now!
> Oh, wait, would you say it's easier to modify the type B or type C cable?
> 
> I have not seen ever a type B cable so I can't tell, but my type C looks like it has room for a perfect fit after the proper cut. Type B looks, at least from the pictures, as if the 2 pins were submerged into the plastic and that I would need to cut and carve all the solid material around the 2 pins. Type C have the 2 pins "flying", the plastic doesn't fill all the hole, so I would just have to cut the sleeve around and that's it, no carving in between the pins or anything.
> ...


Just beware that those TRN cables have a strong odor out of the box. My TRN BA5 came with a silver one but I use the stock cable instead because of the smell.


----------



## doctorstrobe

Oh yeah. The smell of those silver cables is like burnt hair and plastic for a few weeks but it goes away eventually. Rub down with alcohol and microfiber cloth helps a lot.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

Anyone experience a terrible crackling noise in the right ear of the Kz bluetooth cable? Not the Zs 10 making the noise. They work  perfectly wired. Seems to be coming from the control panel. It also got very warm against my skin. Seems to be caused by normal movement. Comes and goes. Very concerned about the overheating though. Cable is 7 weeks old.


----------



## rambomhtri

doctorstrobe said:


> Just looked at both. The type B has less plastic to remove. Neither would require removing any plastic between the pins. It’s just the plastic around the rim.
> 
> The KZ box says 0.75mm pin type.


I'm not sure about that. In the type C I have more than enough room to make a cut and make a perfect fit. From the images I could guess that the type B is not "hollow" or at least that much hollowed. Can anybody put here a photo of the type B 2 pin connecter hopefully with a macro lens of their smartphone to show the INSIDE of the plug?

I see pictures but all of them are from one side or the other, none show the inside of the plug to see how the 2 pins enter and how much room, and where it start to be a solid piece of plastic instead a hollow piece.


----------



## G777

rambomhtri said:


> I'm not sure about that. In the type C I have more than enough room to make a cut and make a perfect fit. From the images I could guess that the type B is not "hollow" or at least that much hollowed. Can anybody put here a photo of the type B 2 pin connecter hopefully with a macro lens of their smartphone to show the INSIDE of the plug?
> 
> I see pictures but all of them are from one side or the other, none show the inside of the plug to see how the 2 pins enter and how much room, and where it start to be a solid piece of plastic instead a hollow piece.


It's hollow. In fact, it's possible to attach IEMs made for the type C connector to a type B cable, but it is a very snug fit.


----------



## guido

rambomhtri said:


> Fantastic NEWS! Thank you I'm ordering one now!
> Oh, wait, would you say it's easier to modify the type B or type C cable?
> 
> I have not seen ever a type B cable so I can't tell, but my type C looks like it has room for a perfect fit after the proper cut. Type B looks, at least from the pictures, as if the 2 pins were submerged into the plastic and that I would need to cut and carve all the solid material around the 2 pins. Type C have the 2 pins "flying", the plastic doesn't fill all the hole, so I would just have to cut the sleeve around and that's it, no carving in between the pins or anything.
> ...


0.78mm and 0.75mm are pretty much identical [0,03mm diff] and you will not notice any difference when swapping size...


----------



## Pelicampe

G777 said:


> Just beware that those TRN cables have a strong odor out of the box. My TRN BA5 came with a silver one but I use the stock cable instead because of the smell.



Plus :
On mine, jack is noisy
Jack rip in two parts when I connect it...
Slider don't retain anything.
Thermoformed hanchor auto get out from my ears.

This TRN is my worst cable by far....


----------



## rambomhtri

Pelicampe said:


> Plus :
> On mine, jack is noisy
> Jack rip in two parts when I connect it...
> Slider don't retain anything.
> ...


I ended up buying the other one, but the TRN looks really well done. May be yours was defective, I can't believe a cable that looks so good is worse and lasts less than those from a crappy $5 headphones.

About the odor, that can happen and I am really sensitive to it. I would not use it unless the odor is completely gone.

Anyways, just because, can anybody still share here a picture with a macro lens or really close up (many smartphones have them today) of the type B plug so I can see its hole/hollow part?


----------



## tgx78

My DQ6 arrived and I like the sound signature a lot. Will burn-it-in for few days.


----------



## IEMusic

tgx78 said:


> My DQ6 arrived and I like the sound signature a lot. Will burn-it-in for few days.


Is this your modded ZAX?   I perceive a lot more bass, especially mid bass, with the ZAX vs the DQ6.


----------



## DynamicEars

tgx78 said:


> My DQ6 arrived and I like the sound signature a lot. Will burn-it-in for few days.



By default, this is the most "correct" KZ tuning so far. Just that 4khz dip is too much, bit too peaky on 2.5khz but seeing the price we cant complain, definitely winner tuning. put in sponge, maybe cut in half just to tame edgy transient peaks and smoothen 2.5khz and 6khz part.

looking forward for your impressions about DQ6 vs ZAX in more details way, like @IEMusic did few pages back. I was aiming these 2 babies, but meanwhile modded KZ Z1 occupied my ears everyday. Haven't buy anything new since Z1 - Z1R combo. So tempting


----------



## IEMusic

DynamicEars said:


> By default, this is the most "correct" KZ tuning so far. Just that 4khz dip is too much, bit too peaky on 2.5khz but seeing the price we cant complain, definitely winner tuning. put in sponge, maybe cut in half just to tame edgy transient peaks and smoothen 2.5khz and 6khz part.
> 
> looking forward for your impressions about DQ6 vs ZAX in more details way, like @IEMusic did few pages back. I was aiming these 2 babies, but meanwhile modded KZ Z1 occupied my ears everyday. Haven't buy anything new since Z1 - Z1R combo. So tempting


That 4KHz dip looks excessive on the graphs, but upon listening, I don’t really notice anything missing.   The DQ6 is definitely not “shouty“.  The 6KHz peak looks nasty on graphs, but again, IRL, I don’t find it too sharp, unless I’m tired.  I bought 2 copies of DQ6, and may try modding one of them, though come to think of it, I have yet to directly compare the 2 copies.

FWIW, the KZ ZAX and DQ6 have been occupying most of my listening time lately, regardless of what other IEMs I have.


----------



## DynamicEars

IEMusic said:


> That 4KHz dip looks excessive on the graphs, but upon listening, I don’t really notice anything missing.   The DQ6 is definitely not “shouty“.  The 6KHz peak looks nasty on graphs, but again, IRL, I don’t find it too sharp, unless I’m tired.  I bought 2 copies of DQ6, and may try modding one of them, though come to think of it, I have yet to directly compare the 2 copies.
> 
> FWIW, the KZ ZAX and DQ6 have been occupying most of my listening time lately, regardless of what other IEMs I have.



They need underlined then.. lol.

The 6khz peak i think still OK, based on graph they wont be sibillance, and definitely not shouty but sponge just to smoothen "ringing" or unwanted resonance from that peaky frequencies. I learnt that from Sony, its their secret weapon since MDR EX-1000, which i believe until now, the best dampening method, secret of detailed IEM yet always sound smooths in good way (EX1000, M7, M9, Z1R all have this sponge) even their lower tier line ups also using sponge damper. And I did experiment myself (on BLON thread), putting a little cut of sponge just to take out little edgy harshness.

Thanks for ZAX and DQ6 comparison, but is the bass on ZAX really better than DQ6? (ZAX use similar driver like older KZs, as in ZS10 pro, ZSX while DQ6 is believed using XUN driver like in KZ Z1, which i praise so much)


----------



## IEMusic

DynamicEars said:


> They need underlined then.. lol.
> 
> The 6khz peak i think still OK, based on graph they wont be sibillance, and definitely not shouty but sponge just to smoothen "ringing" or unwanted resonance from that peaky frequencies. I learnt that from Sony, its their secret weapon since MDR EX-1000, which i believe until now, the best dampening method, secret of detailed IEM yet always sound smooths in good way (EX1000, M7, M9, Z1R all have this sponge) even their lower tier line ups also using sponge damper. And I did experiment myself (on BLON thread), putting a little cut of sponge just to take out little edgy harshness.
> 
> Thanks for ZAX and DQ6 comparison, but is the bass on ZAX really better than DQ6? (ZAX use similar driver like older KZs, as in ZS10 pro, ZSX while DQ6 is believed using XUN driver like in KZ Z1, which i praise so much)


Will a sponge smooth the treble much, or mostly just smooth the upper midrange?

I was not aware of the exact DD technology in the ZAX and DQ6, but to me, the quality of bass (speed, decay, transient attack, texture) sounds quite similar, maybe slightly better on the DQ6, but that may be a function of the tuning.  I prefer the bass tuning of the DQ6, as it has less overall bass, and is more sub bass biased.   The ZAX has more mid bass, that while not muddy at all, can be too much to be truly versatile.  However, I do find the bass quality MUCH better on the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro.

How I would love a ZAX tuned like the Dawn.


----------



## tgx78

IEMusic said:


> Is this your modded ZAX?   I perceive a lot more bass, especially mid bass, with the ZAX vs the DQ6.



no, stock ZAX


----------



## lgcubana (Feb 25, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> Will a sponge smooth the treble much, or mostly just smooth the upper midrange?
> 
> *I was not aware of the exact DD technology in the ZAX* and DQ6, but to me, the quality of bass (speed, decay, transient attack, texture) sounds quite similar, maybe slightly better on the DQ6, but that may be a function of the tuning.  I prefer the bass tuning of the DQ6, as it has less overall bass, and is more sub bass biased.   The ZAX has more mid bass, that while not muddy at all, can be too much to be truly versatile.  However, I do find the bass quality MUCH better on the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> How I would love a ZAX tuned like the Dawn.



【Dual magnetic circuit composite moving coil unit】Equipped with 10mm PEK spring diaphragm,The customized moving coil unit has an ultra-conventional strong magnetic driving force, equipped with a 10mm large-size PEK spring diaphragm, with excellent bass diving and natural sound.
@Slater 
”These use PEK (PEEK) diaphragms, which usually have very good bass and fast response, due to the thinness and lightness of the material. The ED9 also used a PEK diaphragm, which says a lot.”


----------



## DynamicEars

IEMusic said:


> Will a sponge smooth the treble much, or mostly just smooth the upper midrange?
> 
> I was not aware of the exact DD technology in the ZAX and DQ6, but to me, the quality of bass (speed, decay, transient attack, texture) sounds quite similar, maybe slightly better on the DQ6, but that may be a function of the tuning.  I prefer the bass tuning of the DQ6, as it has less overall bass, and is more sub bass biased.   The ZAX has more mid bass, that while not muddy at all, can be too much to be truly versatile.  However, I do find the bass quality MUCH better on the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> How I would love a ZAX tuned like the Dawn.



2khz-8khz, with most affected area on 4khz-8khz. It will smoothen the peaks, but wont kill the extension, you can always play with sponge density and size. Thanks, DQ6 and ZAX always put me in dilemma. This hobby is about curiosity, crazy!


----------



## courierdriver

astermk said:


> I've heard/owned 5 KZ IEMs so far: ZST, ZS10 Pro, CCA C12, CA16, and ZAX. The ZS10 Pro has literally the smallest stage among these, maybe with the exception of the ZST which are KZ's first budget hybrid IEM. The ZAX have the best stage and it's not close. So while I agree that the ZS10 Pro are a monster IEM for the price, I really wouldn't call their stage wide. It's nothing special, even cramped.


Which just goes to show that everyones ears are different, and we all perceive sound differently. Of all the iems I currently own; I'd still take the ZS10 PRO for my overall preferred sound signature; with the multiple genres I listen to.


----------



## astermk (Feb 26, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> Which just goes to show that everyones ears are different, and we all perceive sound differently. Of all the iems I currently own; I'd still take the ZS10 PRO for my overall preferred sound signature; with the multiple genres I listen to.


I'd encourage you to try a ZAX if you haven't if that's the case, as the tuning is pretty much identical between the ZS10 Pro and ZAX (minus the smaller 4k peak which makes the ZAX less fatiguing to me), the ZAX is just a much more technically capable IEM, and sounds the same otherwise. Again, though, ZS10 Pro is just ridiculous, it was my first Chi-Fi IEM and I was just in utter shock for the sound I got for just (at the time) $35.


----------



## tgx78

DQ6 sounds better than modded ZAX for me already. Timbre is undeniably better than ZAX and miles better than the BA10. Best KZ yet.


----------



## DynamicEars

tgx78 said:


> DQ6 sounds better than modded ZAX for me already. Timbre is undeniably better than ZAX and miles better than the BA10. Best KZ yet.



The XUN drivers are bombs! seriously I never thought i would like the 'cripple' KZ Z1 this much, after simple mods and EQ. Timbre is great, if BL-03 got 9 for timbre, the Z1 is 8 while other KZs, ZSX is on 7 and ZS10 pro on 6.5 mark.
How about the technicalities vs ZAX, soundstage, details, and imaging?


----------



## Makahl (Feb 26, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> *Will a sponge smooth the treble much, or mostly just smooth the upper midrange?*
> 
> I was not aware of the exact DD technology in the ZAX and DQ6, but to me, the quality of bass (speed, decay, transient attack, texture) sounds quite similar, maybe slightly better on the DQ6, but that may be a function of the tuning.  I prefer the bass tuning of the DQ6, as it has less overall bass, and is more sub bass biased.   The ZAX has more mid bass, that while not muddy at all, can be too much to be truly versatile.  However, I do find the bass quality MUCH better on the ZAX compared to the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> How I would love a ZAX tuned like the Dawn.



You can see the effect on crinacle's tool:


Spoiler: graphs











I guess it's a bit cloudy talking about sponge/foam alone because each sponge/foam has a different PPI (pores per inch) value, which will lead to different dampening proprieties.

So for modding, depending on the sponge type and length you'll achieve a quite distinct result compared to the original modder using only the term 'sponge'. It'd be similar to going from Knowles brown damper to green/red or vice-versa. That's why I think it's a bit hard to share sponge mods if we don't have the same brand/model or a measurement rig to know how much you're taming and the area your sponge is acting.


----------



## IEMusic

tgx78 said:


> DQ6 sounds better than modded ZAX for me already. Timbre is undeniably better than ZAX and miles better than the BA10. Best KZ yet.


Glad you like it!   So I’m not crazy for thinking the DQ6 sounds incredibly good!  Tuning is very mature as well, definitely not a generic fun V-shape.



DynamicEars said:


> 2khz-8khz, with most affected area on 4khz-8khz. It will smoothen the peaks, but wont kill the extension, you can always play with sponge density and size. Thanks, DQ6 and ZAX always put me in dilemma. This hobby is about curiosity, crazy!


With the sponges, I’m curious IN GENERAL how the depth/thickness of the sponge affects the sound vs the % of area covered?



DynamicEars said:


> The XUN drivers are bombs! seriously I never thought i would like the 'cripple' KZ Z1 this much, after simple mods and EQ. Timbre is great, if BL-03 got 9 for timbre, the Z1 is 8 while other KZs, ZSX is on 7 and ZS10 pro on 6.5 mark.
> How about the technicalities vs ZAX, soundstage, details, and imaging?


These are very broad comparisons between the DQ6 and ZAX, as I still need to compare them more closely.   I think the bass may be slightly more defined on the DQ6 vs the ZAX (outside of simply the tuning), the detail retrieval is slightly better on the ZAX, but the detail retrieval is still remarkable on the DQ6, clarity is a bit better on the ZAX, as is soundstage.   I think imaging and instrument separation is slightly better on the DQ6.  Timbral accuracy is definitely better on the DQ6, though the ZAX impresses me a lot regarding how far KZ has come with their BA implementation.  Treble extension is a bit better on the ZAX, though not as smooth or natural sounding as the DQ6.   Overall, the ZAX sounds bigger and more grand in its presentation.   Sometimes, when a song transitions from a soft passage to an all-out crescendo, when it drops, it can sound awe inspiring on the ZAX.



Makahl said:


> I guess it's a bit cloudy talking about sponge/foam alone because each sponge/foam has a different PPI (pores per inch) value, which will lead to different dampening proprieties.
> 
> So for modding, depending on the sponge type and length you'll achieve a quite distinct result compared to the original modder using only the term 'sponge'. It'd be similar to going from Knowles brown damper to green/red or vice-versa. That's why I think it's a bit hard to share sponge mods if we don't have the same brand/model or a measurement rig to know how much you're taming and the area your sponge is acting.


Definitely, I understand.   I was just wondering, very roughly, how sponges in general affect the FR.  For instance, circumferential damping affects the treble more than the upper mids, whereas micropore tape affects upper mids more than treble.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

tgx78 said:


> DQ6 sounds better than modded ZAX for me already. Timbre is undeniably better than ZAX and miles better than the BA10. Best KZ yet.



As far as overall package is concerned, which you prefer between DQ6 and BA10? In terms of timbre, DQ6 is expected to be better than BA10. But what about other stuff especially technicalities and tuning?


----------



## xanlamin (Feb 26, 2021)

I got the DQ6 today and was really impressed with it. The tuning is pretty good and is very comfortable to wear. Highly recommended! Once a while, something like this comes along and it makes the hobby so exciting! Big shout-out to whoever that stumbled upon this little gem!


----------



## rggz (Feb 26, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> How I would love a ZAX tuned like the Dawn.



To be honest, I thought they were going to be more off graph-wise, but it wouldn't be hard to KZ tune it similar to Dawn. Just some light dampening filter on the nozzle probably would bring the upper-mids down to dawn's level. The hardest part would be to achieve this bass shelf akin to harman target, but if you aren't EQ allergic a peak filter at 200Hz would do that.




Usually I don't like harman-based tuning, but I think it could be cool too.

And for the lols, KZ (QKZ but still) actually tuned an IEM like the Dawn!


----------



## tgx78 (Feb 26, 2021)

my modded and EQed ZAX follows the Harman target curve closely, but with a slightly reduced pinna gain. It sounds perfect except the timbre. Time to mod the DQ6.


----------



## CT007

rggz said:


> And for the lols, KZ (QKZ but still)


Oh, QKZ = KZ? I do like the VK4, for a $20 bill lol.


----------



## rggz

CT007 said:


> Oh, QKZ = KZ? I do like the VK4, for a $20 bill lol.


Yes!



> In the 2005 QKZ is divided into two subsidiary which is ‘QKZ’ and  ‘KZ’ ~ Know for Zero Defect.


https://qkzheadphone.com/about-us2/


----------



## G777

rggz said:


> Yes!
> 
> 
> https://qkzheadphone.com/about-us2/


This is inconsistent with what's on KZ's website?


> KZ, the brand name under which the Guangdong-based Shenzhen Yuan Ze Electronics Co. operates, was founded in 2008, making it a legacy brand by Chi-Fi standards. The founders are Keith Yue, a former Audio-Technica engineer, and Zen Li, a Western-trained classical musician. The name KZ isn't just a nod to the founders' initials, but is also short for "Knowledge Zenith". The company offers an impressive range of low-priced earphones that crib the form-factor from many moderately priced earphones provided by the mainstream brands.


https://kz-audio.com/


----------



## nraymond

rggz said:


> Yes!
> 
> 
> https://qkzheadphone.com/about-us2/


Maybe something is lost in translation, but the KZ that QKZ talks about can't be the same as Knowledge Zenith:

https://kz-audio.com


> KZ, the brand name under which the Guangdong-based Shenzhen Yuan Ze Electronics Co. operates, was founded in 2008, making it a legacy brand by Chi-Fi standards. The founders are Keith Yue, a former Audio-Technica engineer, and Zen Li, a Western-trained classical musician. The name KZ isn't just a nod to the founders' initials, but is also short for "Knowledge Zenith". The company offers an impressive range of low-priced earphones that crib the form-factor from many moderately priced earphones provided by the mainstream brands.



Whereas the QKZ about us page says this:


> The Brand QKZ was born in Bao’an District – China...





> In the 2005 QKZ is divided into two subsidiary which is ‘QKZ’ and  ‘KZ’ ~ Know for Zero Defect.


That doesn't match up.


----------



## CT007

So which one of those 2 guys are responsible for the ZAX? =p Would be sweet to see him interviewed about the creation of it.

"The Making Of ZAX - The Documentary"


----------



## IEMusic (Feb 26, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> I bought 2 copies of DQ6, and may try modding one of them, though come to think of it, I have yet to directly compare the 2 copies.


So, I just compared my 2 copies of the DQ6, bought at different times, from two different sellers.  I compared them with the same source, same 8 tracks, same cable, and same ear tips.  This is by no means scientific, and is only a sample size of 2, but FWIW, they sound identical to me, which is more than I can say of other IEMs that I’ve tried multiple samples of.

I also will add that the DQ6 is quite ear tip sensitive.   I find the SpinFit CP 360 well balanced, but the treble can be a bit too bright at times, and the bass is tamer.  The Sedna Earfit Light Shorts also sound balanced, with still bright treble at times, bit the bass is kickin‘ hard, with more potent mid bass.


----------



## rggz

G777 said:


> This is inconsistent with what's on KZ's website?
> 
> https://kz-audio.com/





nraymond said:


> Maybe something is lost in translation, but the KZ that QKZ talks about can't be the same as Knowledge Zenith:
> 
> https://kz-audio.com
> 
> ...



Well, that's weird indeed and possibly a translation error. But if we look at QKZ VK4 is essentially a KZ ZST shell and the cable has the same plug style as KZ, so at least they're using the same factory.


----------



## slex

IEMusic said:


> So, I just compared my 2 copies of the DQ6, bought at different times, from two different sellers.  I compared them with the same source, same 8 tracks, same cable, and same ear tips.  This is by no means scientific, and is only a sample size of 2, but FWIW, they sound identical to me, which is more than I can say of other IEMs that I’ve tried multiple samples of.
> 
> I also will add that the DQ6 is quite ear tip sensitive.   I find the SpinFit CP 360 well balanced, but the treble can be a bit too bright at times, and the bass is tamer.  The Sedna Earfit Light Shorts also sound balanced, with still bright treble at times, bit the bass is kickin‘ hard, with more potent mid bass.


Have you tried Spiral Dot++☺️


----------



## RCracer777

nraymond said:


> Maybe something is lost in translation, but the KZ that QKZ talks about can't be the same as Knowledge Zenith:
> 
> https://kz-audio.com
> 
> ...


Yet when you check the QKZ product page under KZ you do get our beloved Knowledge Zenith products like the ZS7 and ZS10 Pro.

That said it has none of the recent products or anyting after 2018 for that matter.


----------



## IEMusic

So, I think I’ve determined the weakest part of the DQ6 tuning IMHO....vocals, more specifically, female vocals.  I think the 4KHz dip is both too deep and too broad, and thus female vocals, while certainly not shouty, are too subdued, and lack any sort of bite.   The same holds true with some guitars, though that aspect doesn’t really bother me at all.   Simultaneously, with vocals, the 6 KHz peak boosts sibilance a lot, making some songs nearly unlistenable outside of low volumes, again, more prominent with female vocals.  So far, switching ear tips, cables, and even the physical mods I’ve tried haven’t been able to really tame the 6KHz peak w/o negatively affecting other aspects too much.  I know I can use EQ, and I’m certainly not opposed to it, but right now I’m trying to smooth out the FR w/o resorting to EQ.  Of note, the 6KHz peak does reveal a lot of detail.


----------



## Joseph Lin

I think expecting a $30 earbud to match much higher priced earbuds by tuning/modding fr is creating an illusion. A good sound is not only about fr, but also resolution and dynamic. I think KZ is like disposable earbuds, low price but good sound to enjoy without worrying care/stolen. It suits its own purpose and that is enough.


----------



## mtl171

Joseph Lin said:


> I think expecting a $30 earbud to match much higher priced earbuds by tuning/modding fr is creating an illusion. A good sound is not only about fr, but also resolution and dynamic. I think KZ is like disposable earbuds, low price but good sound to enjoy without worrying care/stolen. It suits its own purpose and that is enough.


I agree. FR curves only show so much. Though its still impressive to see $60 IEMs with FR curves similar to $1k IEMs even if the technicalities and dynamic differences are noticeable (maybe not to people who aren't obsessed with audio though I digress). I still find it quite amusing that at some point too much resolution is almost bad as it makes bad mastering almost unlistenable.


----------



## CT007

mtl171 said:


> at some point too much resolution is almost bad


+1. Changes your focus from the music itself to the tiny details contained in the music.


----------



## mtl171

CT007 said:


> +1. Changes your focus from the music itself to the tiny details contained in the music.


I mean how else are we supposed to justify paying more then $20 for earphones when they all play the same music   Joking aside, I do appreciate the additional detail when listening to instrumental live orchestral things. But sometimes I just want something that smooths out all the flaws with a nice sound and good enough technicalities.


----------



## tgx78 (Feb 27, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> So, I think I’ve determined the weakest part of the DQ6 tuning IMHO....vocals, more specifically, female vocals.  I think the 4KHz dip is both too deep and too broad, and thus female vocals, while certainly not shouty, are too subdued, and lack any sort of bite.   The same holds true with some guitars, though that aspect doesn’t really bother me at all.   Simultaneously, with vocals, the 6 KHz peak boosts sibilance a lot, making some songs nearly unlistenable outside of low volumes, again, more prominent with female vocals.  So far, switching ear tips, cables, and even the physical mods I’ve tried haven’t been able to really tame the 6KHz peak w/o negatively affecting other aspects too much.  I know I can use EQ, and I’m certainly not opposed to it, but right now I’m trying to smooth out the FR w/o resorting to EQ.  Of note, the 6KHz peak does reveal a lot of detail.


Hahaha tiny font size for the ‘cables’. You should have bolded it.


----------



## IEMusic

Joseph Lin said:


> I think expecting a $30 earbud to match much higher priced earbuds by tuning/modding fr is creating an illusion. A good sound is not only about fr, but also resolution and dynamic. I think KZ is like disposable earbuds, low price but good sound to enjoy without worrying care/stolen. It suits its own purpose and that is enough.


While I agree with some of what you wrote, including the part about FR not being the only important trait, I respectfully disagree with the rest.  I think you’re missing the point of my prior post.   I‘ve been so unabashedly impressed with the DQ6 lately, that I had to find and bring to light some of it’s flaws, namely a couple aspects of its tuning.   If I though the technicalities and capabilities outside of FR were sub par, I would have tossed the IEMs in my junk drawer and that would‘ve been the end of it.  The fact that I am so impressed with the DQ6 (and ZAX), is the reason why I’m taking the time to try and optimize them, at least for my tastes.  

I’m not trying to create an illusion, or claiming that they are some giant killers taking on the Z1R, MEST, or Trailii, but they are capable IEMs on their own, and ones that I have been more excited to listen to for the past couple of weeks, over the MEST, 3DT, Volt, etc.  No, I don’t think the KZs are better than the aforementioned IEMs, by any stretch, but they hold their own as legitimate alternatives.  I own and have heard much more costly IEMs that I would consider to be “disposable earbuds” compared to these KZs.  I do think KZ & similar companies do make a lot of trash as well, but I have to give props to their gems.   

BTW, I think I’ve “tuned“ my ZAX to be nearly ideal for me now.


----------



## courierdriver

"BTW, I think I’ve “tuned“ my ZAX to be nearly ideal for me now."
Curious about how you did this? Wondering if it would work with my ZS10 PRO'S. I don't wanna have to buy the ZAX too...especially since I'm still exploring the sound possibilities with my new Fearless S8P ( wink...thank you)


----------



## guido

I would also like to tune my ZAX


----------



## IEMusic

I didn’t do anything really special to the ZAX.  I applied the Moondrop filters.  The Moondrop filters are quite a lot smaller in diameter vs the ZAX nozzle filter, so I applied them all the way at one edge of the nozzle, which allowed some unobstructed “breathing room”.  The bass was unaffected, the the upper midrange and lower treble spikes were tamed.   One could use micropore paper tape to achieve a similar effect.  

I then rolled through a ton of ear tips, and found that using cut foam tips lowered the bass a decent amount, and as a whole, everything sounds well balanced.   If I want a lot of bass, just change ear tips.


----------



## RCracer777 (Mar 1, 2021)

I got my DQ6 in the other day and I've been trying them for a few days, I'm liking it. They give me moments where I go "yep they're good" and moments where I just find it lacking in the treble region and it sounds a bit muffled. The roll off in the treble is a little too much for my taste. They are by no means a bad pair and I do enjoy them but after about 6 hours I still feel that they need to open up a bit more. 

Somehow I can get a seal with the stock tips but it's not great. I've tried a couple of others as well including foams but so far the results have been to opposite of what I'm looking for. I probably need to do more tip rolling to get a better fit and maybe get the treble up a bit. And a bit more burn in wouldn't hurt either I think.

It's still early and I never like to judge an IEM or any type of gear until it has had at least 24 hours of playtime as that's when they show their real sound. So I'll post some updates later on.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Feb 28, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> The DQ6 is definitely not “shouty“.  The 6KHz peak looks nasty on graphs, but again, IRL, I don’t find it too sharp, unless I’m tired.  I bought 2 copies of DQ6, and may try modding one of them, though come to think of it, I have yet to directly compare the 2 copies.
> 
> FWIW, the KZ ZAX and DQ6 have been occupying most of my listening time lately, regardless of what other IEMs I have.



I've pulled the silicone eartips from my Panasonic HJE-120 and installed them on my DQ6.

Best combination, for me, thus far. Great balance of natural note weight and tone with a comfortable sense of detail.

DQ6 is the easiest KZ I can recommend (eartips are key).




tgx78 said:


> DQ6 sounds better than modded ZAX for me already.




DQ6 sounds very analogue-like.
CKX has improved resolution but sounds quite analogue-like as well for a hybrid.
It's smooth but it's still detailed.

Considering returning my unopened ZAX. Maybe get yet another CKX.
CKX price to performance ratio is very good and I like having backups of IEMs I think will hold up well through the years (DQ6, ATR, AS12, BA10 & ZS6 thus far for KZ/CCA).

At any rate, the DQ6 (all-DD), CKX (hybrid) and AS12 (all-BA) make for an excellent trio at less than $200 ($30+$80+$75=$185) for the lot.




IEMusic said:


> So I’m not crazy for thinking the DQ6 sounds incredibly good!



DQ6 absolutely sounds incredibly good!

One of KZ's best releases to date.



> These are very broad comparisons between the DQ6 and ZAX, as I still need to compare them more closely.   I think the bass may be slightly more defined on the DQ6 vs the ZAX (outside of simply the tuning), the detail retrieval is slightly better on the ZAX, but the detail retrieval is still remarkable on the DQ6, clarity is a bit better on the ZAX, as is soundstage.   I think imaging and instrument separation is slightly better on the DQ6.  Timbral accuracy is definitely better on the DQ6, though the ZAX impresses me a lot regarding how far KZ has come with their BA implementation.  Treble extension is a bit better on the ZAX, though not as smooth or natural sounding as the DQ6.   Overall, the ZAX sounds bigger and more grand in its presentation.   Sometimes, when a song transitions from a soft passage to an all-out crescendo, when it drops, it can sound awe inspiring on the ZAX.



Thanks for the comparison.




IEMusic said:


> I also will add that the DQ6 is quite ear tip sensitive.



Very, eartip sensitive. As usual, they can make or break the presentation.




IEMusic said:


> So, I think I’ve determined the weakest part of the DQ6 tuning IMHO....vocals, more specifically, female vocals.  I think the 4KHz dip is both too deep and too broad, and thus female vocals, while certainly not shouty, are too subdued, and lack any sort of bite.   The same holds true with some guitars, though that aspect doesn’t really bother me at all.   Simultaneously, with vocals, the 6 KHz peak boosts sibilance a lot, making some songs nearly unlistenable outside of low volumes, again, more prominent with female vocals.  So far, switching ear tips, cables, and even the physical mods I’ve tried haven’t been able to really tame the 6KHz peak w/o negatively affecting other aspects too much.  I know I can use EQ, and I’m certainly not opposed to it, but right now I’m trying to smooth out the FR w/o resorting to EQ.  Of note, the 6KHz peak does reveal a lot of detail.



I usually don't exceed about 35% volume on any of my DAPs so you could say I listen at low to moderate levels. Perhaps why the 6khz-7khz region doesn't create an issue for me. To my ears, 35% volume is more than sufficient for me to get plenty of verve while simultaneously hearing everything with absolute clarity. The only exception being low volume recordings.

I don't need a fourth Plenue but the Cowon PR2 does have a setting that plays all tracks at the same volume level. I think I'll have to wait for the annual Christmas sale (20%/$110 off of its $550 pricetag on Amazon)

I should mention that most of my DAPs have at least enough power to push typical full-size headphones so IEMs are a breeze on said DAPs (I rarely listen to music on my phone).

More importantly, what are your thoughts regarding the DQ6 vs the 3DT?

My question is mostly directed at UM using their smaller (7mm) dual drivers for the lower frequencies while KZ went with using their smaller (6mm) dual drivers for the upper frequencies.

Just curious about your observations.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## chinmie

I'm curious, how's the DQ6 compared the old ATR?


----------



## IEMusic

RCracer777 said:


> ...moments where I just find the lacking in the treble region and it sounds a bit muffled. The roll off in the treble is a little too much for my taste.


That’s surprising, because it has some sharp treble peaks at 6KHz and 8KHz, and also has good extension.  Give it time for the drivers to break in, and roll through a lot of ear tips.   It is a tip sensitive IEM, and I didn’t even try the stock tips b/c they feel like junk to me.



Alpha Whale said:


> More importantly, what are your thoughts regarding the DQ6 vs the 3DT?
> 
> My question is mostly directed at UM using their smaller (7mm) dual drivers for the lower frequencies while KZ went with using their smaller (6mm) dual drivers for the upper frequencies.


I forget where, but I previously posted a brief comparison of those 2.  Basically, the UM 3DT surpasses the DQ6 with all technicalities, but it is not a huge difference.   The tunings are a bit different, with the DQ6 having more bass, and less upper midrange/lower treble.  Clarity is a lot better on the 3DT, as is detail retrieval.   I like both of them, and despite the huge price difference between these 2 IEMs, they both are bargains for what they do (of course more so with the DQ6).


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alpha Whale said:


> My question is mostly directed at UM using their smaller (7mm) dual drivers for the lower frequencies while KZ went with using their smaller (6mm) dual drivers for the upper frequencies.


Pretty sure that using the smaller driver as the tweeter should work better. Since it seems that most bigger DDs have problems with upper treble extension....


----------



## Wgibson

Gonna throw this out there, I measured the ZAX impedance and it was super flat, maybe something to help explain why they sound so good. For comparison, alspo checked the CCA C16 (all BA, older model) and it has some good size spikes like you'd expect from BA's.


----------



## astermk

Wgibson said:


> Gonna throw this out there, I measured the ZAX impedance and it was super flat, maybe something to help explain why they sound so good. For comparison, alspo checked the CCA C16 (all BA, older model) and it has some good size spikes like you'd expect from BA's.


I would really love to see these numbers. Also, why does flat impedance make an IEM sound good? I don't know much about this stuff from the engineering standpoint. I do know that with higher impedances an amp can push out less power to the speaker(s), so if impedance varies wildly across the frequency range, different parts of the spectrum would receive different amount of mW of power and the whole thing might sound uneven. Is that it?


----------



## seanwee

astermk said:


> I would really love to see these numbers. Also, why does flat impedance make an IEM sound good? I don't know much about this stuff from the engineering standpoint. I do know that with higher impedances an amp can push out less power to the speaker(s), so if impedance varies wildly across the frequency range, different parts of the spectrum would receive different amount of mW of power and the whole thing might sound uneven. Is that it?


Typically multi-BA iems have a very uneven impedance curve, that means they will deviate from the original tuning (for the worse) when plugged into sources with higher output impedance. 

Having a flat impedance curve is good because the iem isn't as "picky" of the source and will sound good across a range of sources. It has nothing to do with how good an iem sounds as a whole.

Thats old audiophile knowledge though and I haven't really kep with new developments on the techincal side of audiophilia. Stuff may have changed since.


----------



## yojoza

After breaking them, I'm thinking if should just buy a pair of ZS10pros again or if I should upgrade to the ZAXs, are they really worth the 30€ more compared to the ZS10pros? I've been really happy with them, I wouldn't mind a tiny bit more bass though


----------



## IEMusic

yojoza said:


> are they really worth the 30€ more compared to the ZS10pros?


YES!!!!  IMHO



yojoza said:


> I wouldn't mind a tiny bit more bass though


The ZAX doesn’t have more bass, but it is cleaner and faster.


----------



## whirlwind

yojoza said:


> After breaking them, I'm thinking if should just buy a pair of ZS10pros again or if I should upgrade to the ZAXs, are they really worth the 30€ more compared to the ZS10pros? I've been really happy with them, I wouldn't mind a tiny bit more bass though



I own both, but find myself using the ZAX most of the time....over the ZS10 Pro and Legacy 3
This being said I could live with any of these as my go to and the best part is non of them break the bank.


----------



## pfropfen

There's been a lot of praise for the DQ6 here, but for someone who isn't really a hardcore audiophile, how do they compare to the ZSN Pro? Will untrained ears hear any difference from the different driver setup, and if so, is it more of an upgrade or a sidegrade (in your opinion)?
Would be awesome if someone could list some potential differences / upgrades over the zsn pro!


----------



## CT007

pfropfen said:


> Would be awesome if someone could list some potential differences / upgrades over the zsn pro!


ZAX, easy. Or if you wanna spend more for non-KZ, LZ A7 & BGVP DM8 are excellent, and Aur Audio Lokahi is supposed to be. I'm not so keen on DQ6, myself, though they are far from bad sounding.


----------



## pfropfen

CT007 said:


> ZAX, easy. Or if you wanna spend more for non-KZ, LZ A7 & BGVP DM8 are excellent, and Aur Audio Lokahi is supposed to be. I'm not so keen on DQ6, myself, though they are far from bad sounding.


Oh, I think I messed up the wording there, I meant to talk about comparisons between the ZSN Pro and DQ6, but thanks for the reccs anyways!  
I'm looking to stay in the budget range (and only looking to buy it if it really improves on the ones i have since I am very happy with them all round) around the zsn pros / DQ6, and already have another headphone from a brand that is apparently banned here (?) ordered and on the way. Some of those you listed look juicy though, but that seems like serious audiophile-tier territory.


----------



## CT007

pfropfen said:


> Oh, I think I messed up the wording there, I meant to talk about comparisons between the ZSN Pro and DQ6, but thanks for the reccs anyways!
> I'm looking to stay in the budget range (and only looking to buy it if it really improves on the ones i have since I am very happy with them all round) around the zsn pros / DQ6, and already have another headphone from a brand that is apparently banned here (?) ordered and on the way. Some of those you listed look juicy though, but that seems like serious audiophile-tier territory.


Well I do think ZSN Pro is really good for that price! ZAX will be a great step up in every way, and is all the money you need to spend for top sound today IMO  ZSN sound thinner, lighter, less natural, less technically good. DQ6 would be a good pick, too, but have less bass than ZAX and sound a little off to me(but are cheaper). I like ZAX more than those other IEMs I recommended, generally speaking, anyway.


----------



## pfropfen

CT007 said:


> Well I do think ZSN Pro is really good for that price! ZAX will be a great step up in every way, and is all the money you need to spend for top sound today IMO  ZSN sound thinner, lighter, less natural, less technically good. DQ6 would be a good pick, too, but have less bass than ZAX and sound a little off to me(but are cheaper). I like ZAX more than those other IEMs I recommended, generally speaking, anyway.


Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Joseph Lin

CT007 said:


> Well I do think ZSN Pro is really good for that price! ZAX will be a great step up in every way, and is all the money you need to spend for top sound today IMO  ZSN sound thinner, lighter, less natural, less technically good. DQ6 would be a good pick, too, but have less bass than ZAX and sound a little off to me(but are cheaper). I like ZAX more than those other IEMs I recommended, generally speaking, anyway.


I agree with you. Have been listening to DQ6 for a week and it sound great until I switch back to ZAX. ZAX has better resolution and dynamic. You can easily hear the differences. What is funny is when I switched to Airpods Max and oh my goodness, I did not realize how much details I have missed listening to ZAX/DQ6.


----------



## chinmie

Joseph Lin said:


> I agree with you. Have been listening to DQ6 for a week and it sound great until I switch back to ZAX. ZAX has better resolution and dynamic. You can easily hear the differences. What is funny is when I switched to Airpods Max and oh my goodness, I did not realize how much details I have missed listening to ZAX/DQ6.



did you mean that the Airpod Max has better details than the ZAX? or is it the other way around?


----------



## Joseph Lin

chinmie said:


> did you mean that the Airpod Max has better details than the ZAX? or is it the other way around?


Airpods Max has better details.


----------



## HeartsofSpace

I picked up set of ZAX and I am floored. I'm not a IEM expert, only own UE Super.fi Pro 5s which had a cult following ($300 a decade ago) and the ZAX blow them away in every possible way. I own a $300 set of AKG702 headphones that I used for mixing which I am now considering selling. My only wonder is how much better would something like Fiio FA7 sound for ~$200 more than these? For $60 these are simply amazing.

I'm driving them with a Fiio BTR1 which isn't the latest and greatest and they sound stellar. I suspect upgrading to something like a BTR5 or Qudelix-5K would be the best place to invest rather than gloating over $250 Fiio IEMs.


----------



## Wgibson

HeartsofSpace said:


> I picked up set of ZAX and I am floored. I'm not a IEM expert, only own UE Super.fi Pro 5s which had a cult following ($300 a decade ago) and the ZAX blow them away in every possible way. I own a $300 set of AKG702 headphones that I used for mixing which I am now considering selling. My only wonder is how much better would something like Fiio FA7 sound for ~$200 more than these? For $60 these are simply amazing.
> 
> I'm driving them with a Fiio BTR1 which isn't the latest and greatest and they sound stellar. I suspect upgrading to something like a BTR5 or Qudelix-5K would be the best place to invest rather than gloating over $250 Fiio IEMs.



Yup, BTR5 (~$100-120) with a decent 2.5mm balanced cable (<$20) and you're in pretty good shape.


----------



## r31ya

HeartsofSpace said:


> My only wonder is how much better would something like Fiio FA7 sound for ~$200 more than these? For $60 these are simply amazing.


As far as know, Fiio FH3 or Fiio FH5 is far more recommended than Fiio FA7, tough different SQ target and all.


HeartsofSpace said:


> I'm driving them with a Fiio BTR1 which isn't the latest and greatest and they sound stellar. I suspect upgrading to something like a BTR5 or Qudelix-5K would be the best place to invest rather than gloating over $250 Fiio IEMs.



If you don't plan to be that mobile with it, like using for studio/pc. I'll recommend Xduoo XD-05 plus or XD-05 basic over BTR5 or Qudelix

but if you really need the portability, go for either Fiio or Qudelix


----------



## cleg

My video about DQ6. Bit unusual tuning, but pretty interesting, and IMHO a good offer for the price


----------



## CT007

^ Great accent. Great videos. Can't get enough of that Finnish


----------



## seanwee

CT007 said:


> ^ Great accent. Great videos. Can't get enough of that Finnish


Ukranian


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

For those who find their EDX a bit hot in the treble and bloated with midbass, should try them with wide-bore tips like BGVP W01 or Azla with short bore (W01 makes more sense to keep overall investment under $10)

The bass is hard and linear that it gives many $50 IEMs a run for their money. The sub-bass gets a new lease of life and mid-bass now adds girth to the mids and not impede them. Male vocals sound lush and natural on them. Female vocals' harshness is also reduced substantially. Cymbals aren't hot anymore and yet everything sounds lively.

For those who use them for movies/shows streaming, they should try stock Sennheiser tips or any medium/narrow bore tips even the old Starlines work just insert 3/4 in the nozzle. The ambient sound really comes to the fore and adds zing to the overall experience. I watched Attack on the Titan and Mushkou Tensei a couple of days back, the SFX experience was so engaging. Both the shows have exquisite BG music and it really adds a new dimension to the overall experience.

EDX is indeed the pinnacle of ED series IMO considering they have created a device which brings quality sound and still allows room to play and experiment in order to enhance experience. Cable believers may try playing with them to notice any substantial difference. I tried them with KBEar OFC cable (Balanced), Rhyme (Balanced), KBEar Pink cable (3.5mm). I didn't notice any major differences apart from the dynamics on balanced out cables was better for obvious increase in power. It certainly rivals the fit and comfort of Tennmak Pro in the sub-20 segment and exceeds all competition by a country mile.


----------



## Jitu13 (Mar 5, 2021)

Dani157 said:


> For those who find their EDX a bit hot in the treble and bloated with midbass, should try them with wide-bore tips like BGVP W01 or Azla with short bore (W01 makes more sense to keep overall investment under $10)
> 
> The bass is hard and linear that it gives many $50 IEMs a run for their money. The sub-bass gets a new lease of life and mid-bass now adds girth to the mids and not impede them. Male vocals sound lush and natural on them. Female vocals' harshness is also reduced substantially. Cymbals aren't hot anymore and yet everything sounds lively.
> 
> ...


You forgot to add how clear they sound! For me the clarity of these are mind boggling. I find everything a bit muddy (or sibilant for c630) after hearing this.
Will try tip rolling them someday. Any other recs? (I don't find them hot to begin with.)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Mar 5, 2021)

Jitu13 said:


> You forgot to add how clear they sound! For me the clarity of these are mind boggling. I find everything a bit muddy (or sibilant for c630) after hearing this.
> Will try tip rolling them someday. Any other recs? (I don't find them hot to begin with.)


Well, what's your preferred signature? What kind of music you usually listen to? What you find lacking in them? That should be your basis to tip roll. Like if you want to streamline bass maybe try tips that improve your seal ideally foam tips (but they will also clip treble which might hamper the clarity) or want to elevate mids then a wide bore tip (Sedna/Spiral Dot/Symbio W/Tennmak Whirlwind/BGVP W01/Y01/Final E are some examples, there might be others but I'm not sure which tips you have) which gives a little shallow insertion. And so, on.

Two things have noticed that a tighter seal improves the ambient audio experience alongwith the bass whereas shallow insertion improves on overall musicality and dynamism.


----------



## scratchmassive

I finally got a pair of BA10 but I am finding the highs a bit more piercing and metallic than I expected while bass a bit muted, coming from ZAX and BL03, and so not enjoying them as much as I hoped. Does that match what others feel about them, or is it a unit variance thing? I am using stock tips and cable.


----------



## CT007

scratchmassive said:


> ...coming from ZAX


Well, I mean...lol. ZAX is a Champion-class IEM.


----------



## scratchmassive

CT007 said:


> Well, I mean...lol. ZAX is a Champion-class IEM.


Yeah it is just fantastic, maybe I started with the wrong KZ! I have a DQ6 on the way too...


----------



## r31ya

scratchmassive said:


> Yeah it is just fantastic, maybe I started with the wrong KZ! I have a DQ6 on the way too...


Just remember the pricing difference between ZAX and DQ6. With that, i don't think you'll be dissapointed with DQ6.
I bought DQ6 blind, before much review went online and thoroughly surprised and impressed. for the price, they are fantastic.


----------



## IEMusic (Mar 6, 2021)

scratchmassive said:


> I finally got a pair of BA10 but I am finding the highs a bit more piercing and metallic than I expected while bass a bit muted, coming from ZAX and BL03, and so not enjoying them as much as I hoped. Does that match what others feel about them, or is it a unit variance thing? I am using stock tips and cable.


I think it might be variance, unfortunately.   If I’m not mistaken, the BA10 is no longer in production, so only remaining stock is being sold.  I liked my BA10 so much, I purchased a 2nd one, but it sounded nothing like the first one, and was almost unlistenable for me (really dark and super mid bassy).

To me, the highs certainly do sound more metallic than the newer ZAX drivers, but I don’t find it piercing at all, and the bass is anything but muted.  My set has some the most potent and defined BA bass I’ve heard.



r31ya said:


> Just remember the pricing difference between ZAX and DQ6. With that, i don't think you'll be dissapointed with DQ6.
> I bought DQ6 blind, before much review went online and thoroughly surprised and impressed. for the price, they are fantastic.


It all comes down to taste, I like my ZAX and DQ6 equally, and that’s not taking anything away from how amazing the ZAX sounds.  It’s just that the DQ6 sound really appeals to me....for some other people, not nearly as much.  I like how the DQ6 sounds more than quite a few >$100 IEMs.


----------



## scratchmassive

IEMusic said:


> I think it might be variance, unfortunately.   If I’m not mistaken, the BA10 is no longer in production, so only remaining stock is being sold.  I liked my BA10 so much, I purchased a 2nd one, but it sounded nothing like the first one, and was almost unlistenable for me (really dark and super mid bassy).
> 
> To me, the highs certainly do sound more metallic than the newer ZAX drivers, but I don’t find it piercing at all, and the bass is anything but muted.  My set has some the most potent and defined BA bass I’ve heard.
> 
> ...


OK maybe I'll try different tips before I consider a replacement pair. Just that I really like the way they look...


----------



## nraymond

scratchmassive said:


> OK maybe I'll try different tips before I consider a replacement pair. Just that I really like the way they look...


I use these eartips with the BA10, I think they work well:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07H9PWD5Y


----------



## IEMusic

scratchmassive said:


> OK maybe I'll try different tips before I consider a replacement pair. Just that I really like the way they look...


If it sounds piercing with muted bass, to you, I recommend trying Final Audio E tips, though they will take some effort to fit them on.


----------



## saldsald

Dani157 said:


> For those who find their EDX a bit hot in the treble and bloated with midbass, should try them with wide-bore tips like BGVP W01 or Azla with short bore (W01 makes more sense to keep overall investment under $10)
> 
> The bass is hard and linear that it gives many $50 IEMs a run for their money. The sub-bass gets a new lease of life and mid-bass now adds girth to the mids and not impede them. Male vocals sound lush and natural on them. Female vocals' harshness is also reduced substantially. Cymbals aren't hot anymore and yet everything sounds lively.
> 
> ...




And this is my solution.


----------



## cappuchino

saldsald said:


> And this is my solution.


That's a "mod," alright 😉

Decreasing upper midrange/lower treble, for those that don't want to do permanent mods, can be achieved using earbud foams as filter (dampening of that region = no. of layers). It works like a charm in my experience.


----------



## saldsald

sub30 said:


> That's a "mod," alright 😉
> 
> Decreasing upper midrange/lower treble, for those that don't want to do permanent mods, can be achieved using earbud foams as filter (dampening of that region = no. of layers). It works like a charm in my experience.


Yea, I actually just wanted to experiment with the EDX to try to remove the plastic sounding character by "replacing" the nozzles with metal ones. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR THOSE WHO DON'T WANT TO DO PERMANENT MODS OBVIOUSLY, lol. 

Actually, I think it maybe better to add damping foam under the lonely metal grill for other modders anyway. I have 5 pairs of EDX to experiment with  .


----------



## rambomhtri (Mar 9, 2021)

Jesus Christ!
I just replaced the original KZ cable by the HiFiHear one:




1. It is so soft, in a good way, almost like touching velvet or silk. So relaxing and satisfying to touch.
2. It also goes very smooth all along its path, meaning it weights and doesn't curve or fight gravity. It is very flexible, not "rigid", which is extremely comfy and handy to use.
3. The quality of the materials is amazing, I can't say anything wrong, and it looks even better in real life than in the pictures.
4. Every little detail is perfect, plus the 90º jack plug with the little extra height that makes it compatible with smartphones with thick cases. Love it. Even the Y split ring is very useful, never really used that until now. There is one design problem though: there's "no protection" against cable being flexed 90º at the jack plug joint. The black rubber at the end is very hard to work as a protector against this. That means you can physically store the cable in a very bad position, like the cable at the jack end bent 90º, which will totally damage the cable there, overtime.
5. Although one could think that it's not recommended for hooked IEMs since it does not have any hook tube next to the pins, after using it I can say I prefer this a thousand times over pre-hooked cables. Since this cable is so flexible, it adapts perfectly to your ear. It's a little harder to put on since the pre-made hook helps, but that's just... nothing to worry about.
6. Oh, and finally, the cable rubbing sound is NON existent, at least if set up properly. Another point, amazing cable.

I can't believe these are at $15. It's a steal! I would gladly pay $50 for this cable, even more if you ask me. It's the price I would sell a cable like this if I was the one making it. I remember the day I bought the KZ ZS7 and though the KZ cable was fantastic. The first days it seems to be perfect and durable, but after a few weeks you realize it's a cheap poor cable, at least compared to these.* I hope it stays and behaves as high quality as they appear overtime* and they doesn't surprise me with things like the cable going rusty or green, peeling, or the cable going much more rigid, or the ends getting damaged do to the lack of protection.

Anyway, one thing, at the pin end, there is one colored dot in each one of the pins:



In both sides, once you put L and R IEMs (KZ ZS7 or in the same style/design), the dots in both sides should be pointing front, that's the standard.


----------



## IEMusic

rambomhtri said:


> Jesus Christ!
> I just replaced the original KZ cable by the HiFiHear one:
> 
> 1. It is so soft, in a good way, almost like touching velvet or silk. So relaxing and satisfying to touch.
> ...


With standard 2 pin sockets, the dot should be on the bottom of the plugs.   With typical qdc sockets, they should be on the top of the plugs.  Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter, as long as the right and left plugs are connected the same way.  If the cable has an ear hook, just connect each side according to the ear hook.


----------



## cappuchino (Mar 9, 2021)

Late to the party but I just received my pair of EDX in clear/crystal. Let's see if the hype is real.

These are seriously, the most attractive, generic design shell ever. Different thickness than KS1, same shell as VK4 (except that the VK4 doesn't have vents). Cable's really nice as well. Close-looking to the KB Ear 4-core pink cable in feel, only that the KB Ear is noticeably softer.

First listen is that these have thinner and more recessed midrange compared to the KB Ear KS1 (post burn-in). Looser and leaner bass, as well (though the KS1 pre burn-in had worse quality bass). Will subject them to a few hours of burn-in after a few more songs.

Update 1 (~1 hour): Initially used S stock tips but can't get a good seal. Switched to KS1 stock tips M and achieved that. Quite nice bass quality and extension. Treble is seriously splashy, I don't know how burn-in can possibly fix that. Midrange is recessed and sounds "brittle."

Update 2 (~2 hours): Decided to try the stock tips of the KP580. It works wonderfully - bass is more present, midrange is less thin, and treble smoothens at ouch(though still splashy and peaky). There are less instances of sibilance, as well but still a common occurrence. Soundstage is surprisingly wide but not a lot of depth. Separation is good.

Update 3 (~3 hours): Burn-in time.

Update 4 (~10 hours): After ~7 hours of burn-in, it's still the same. No changes anywhere. Bass is nice, midrange is recessed and still too thin and harsh for my liking, treble is garbage. It is also faking detail-retrieval with the treble peaks. The only redeeming factor is the decent technicalities and the cable. KS1 shell is more comfortable for me.


----------



## JazzVinyl

The KZ DQ6 and the Cayin N3Pro (in triode mode) is a sweet pair!  Really easy to get addicted to the smooth, non fatiguing presentation.


----------



## cappuchino (Mar 12, 2021)

KZ DQ6

MUCH, MUCH BETTER OOTB than the trash EDX. Build is quite nice as well but that nozzle, man 😕 Shell isn't as big as what you'd expect seeing the pictures. Cable's the same, just in a different color. *The four pairs of tips are not usable, for me. *Currently using stock KS1 M tips and it fits me well.

*Now using SSP Small stock tips

Update 1 (~2 hours): Bass is quite nice - tight and textured. Elevated but somewhat linear (read: not warm/mid-bass focused). Slightly recessed midrange and not piercing treble. Shell's comfortable for me but the stock cable is annoying with the shape of the IEM. The stock cable works better with a "generic" shell like the EDX, IMO.

Update 2 (~2 hours): Burn-in time.


----------



## scratchmassive

cappuchino said:


> KZ DQ6
> 
> MUCH, MUCH BETTER OOTB than the trash EDX. Build is quite nice as well but that nozzle, man 😕 Isn't as big as what you'd expect seeing the pictures. Cable's the same, just in a different color. *The four pairs of tips are not usable, for me. *Currently using stock KS1 M tips and it fits me well.


I just my DQ6 yesterday and agree these sound great. They are huge, bigger than the ZAX, and because it protrudes out firthertit brings a bit of discomfort with the cable wanting to run across the top of my ear rather than close to my head. But otherwise really good.

Also I'm coming around a lot more to the BA10 I was complaining about. It is not nearly as tinny as I was thinking but I haven't changed anything. I'd say I'm enjoying them now. Is burn-in a thing for BAs? (assuming it is real in the first place)


----------



## cappuchino

scratchmassive said:


> I just my DQ6 yesterday and agree these sound great. They are huge, bigger than the ZAX, and because it protrudes out firthertit brings a bit of discomfort with the cable wanting to run across the top of my ear rather than close to my head. But otherwise really good.


Cool to know! The DQ6 fits my ear like a glove and I personally love the protrusion. As with other IEMs, fit is a personal preference.



scratchmassive said:


> Also I'm coming around a lot more to the BA10 I was complaining about. It is not nearly as tinny as I was thinking but I haven't changed anything. I'd say I'm enjoying them now. Is burn-in a thing for BAs? (assuming it is real in the first place)


With burn-in, particularly in DD's, I believe it's more of a case-to-case basis. From what I've read (can't prove cause all I've got are pure-DD IEMs/TWS), BA's don't _usually_ change with burn-in, but of course there are always exceptions to the rule.


----------



## nraymond

scratchmassive said:


> Also I'm coming around a lot more to the BA10 I was complaining about. It is not nearly as tinny as I was thinking but I haven't changed anything. I'd say I'm enjoying them now. Is burn-in a thing for BAs? (assuming it is real in the first place)


For me it's mental adjustment. I cycle between about 8 different IEMs, and depending on what I'm going to/from and the time of day and how much I've been drinking (see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2031886/), there's an adjustment period.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

cappuchino said:


> Late to the party but I just received my pair of EDX in clear/crystal. Let's see if the hype is real.
> 
> These are seriously, the most attractive, generic design shell ever. Different thickness than KS1, same shell as VK4 (except that the VK4 doesn't have vents). Cable's really nice as well. Close-looking to the KB Ear 4-core pink cable in feel, only that the KB Ear is noticeably softer.
> 
> ...


To be honest, the white tips are utter trash. Try with OG starlines or some wide bore tips. Treble hotness will vanish and sound will seem linear and better. Perfect for commuting if you aren't using TWS. Their true potential lies in tip rolling. OOTB they're still better than most IEMs under $10 but they get elevated to a higher tier when tip-rolled.


----------



## IEMusic

Dani157 said:


> OOTB they're still better than most IEMs under $10


I would certainly hope so.


----------



## 1clearhead

I say, ditch the copper cable and just get a *silver cable* instead where the difference is definitely night and day. The copper cable that KZ provides does not go well with the EDX and doesn't do them any justice. So, its no wonder they sound too shouty and splashy. But, swipe them for a silver cable and hear the difference! So, for those that own the EDX, try a silver cable instead. You get quicker and tighter bass response, cleaner and more vivid midrange, and remarkably the treble becomes incredibly detailed. I've been listening to them this past week at work and I don't regret getting them only to know what they're capable of when swapped for silver cables!
Now, I'm not saying they are better than any KZ I own, but by swapping to silver cables, I like the clean signature just as much as my KZ DQ6! For such a low price, they are definitely keepers, IMHO!

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead (Mar 10, 2021)

I forgot to mention, if anyone was interested, I purchased the silver cables for my KZ EDX here:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.33f52e8dVqsBHE&id=590556856348&_u=b206rtltra45a9



But, I'm sure anyone can buy them elsewhere like Aliexpress.

-Clear


----------



## Alpha Whale (Mar 10, 2021)

Slater said:


> I’ve already been kicking around some cosmetic mod ideas for the BA10. I’ll have to see how easily the backs come off.
> 
> PS - you guys are killing me with this AS12 talk. My willpower is not that strong lol



Just re-read your post. I had a VERY DIFFICULT TIME removing the BA10 faceplates so I don't necessarily recommend it. I used an unusual tool (sort of a cantilevered set of plyers with unusual lips) I found at my work site to remove the faceplates but I marred the faceplates of the first BA10. Afterward, I had to put multiple layers of masking tape on the tip of the tool to avoid scratching the finish as I applied pressure to separate the faceplate from the main body. Then I used a plastic spudger to continue the separating process.






It was tedious.

BTW, in my opinion these still deserve further investigation.
Still my favorite all-BA set.





Only two sellers left on Amazon that have them in stock. A third seller has a one month delivery window.


----------



## sutosuto

I have been using KZ DQ6 the last 2 days and enjoying much. At first, they sounded a bit weird but after burned in, they are sounding better to my ears.
Note that I never tried stocked tips and cable, I am using Final E and NiceHCK 16 Core balanced. My source is Hiby R5.

If they are smaller, a bit more subbass and smoother vocal (and/or a bit less forward) then they will be my ideal iems.
Thanks @IEMusic , one of the reason I bought these is because of your postings 😁


----------



## sutosuto

This might sound strange, I feel my DQ6 bass is faster than my LZ A6.
I wish the DQ6 would be smaller size as it is quite painful for long hour listening.


----------



## voicemaster

sutosuto said:


> This might sound strange, I feel my DQ6 bass is faster than my LZ A6.
> I wish the DQ6 would be smaller size as it is quite painful for long hour listening.


I think DQ6 is quite small compared to other similar type shell from KZ.


----------



## RikudouGoku

sutosuto said:


> This might sound strange, I feel my DQ6 bass is faster than my LZ A6.
> I wish the DQ6 would be smaller size as it is quite painful for long hour listening.


You sure? I might buy the dq6 during the next end of March sale then...


----------



## sutosuto

voicemaster said:


> I think DQ6 is quite small compared to other similar type shell from KZ.


It is just because I have small ears


----------



## sutosuto

RikudouGoku said:


> You sure? I might buy the dq6 during the next end of March sale then...


No harm buddy, it is cheap 😁. They cost me lesser than $20 before tips and cable.
If you buy it, please make sure you change the cable and tips.


----------



## voicemaster

sutosuto said:


> It is just because I have small ears


Try CCA CKX. It is the smallest KZ/CCA iem I've ever seen.


----------



## RikudouGoku

sutosuto said:


> No harm buddy, it is cheap 😁. They cost me lesser than $20 before tips and cable.
> If you buy it, please make sure you change the cable and tips.


Yeah, its cheap. But Im trying to not buy more downgrades lol. Too many iems already.


----------



## G777

sutosuto said:


> This might sound strange, I feel my DQ6 bass is faster than my LZ A6.
> I wish the DQ6 would be smaller size as it is quite painful for long hour listening.


The DQ6 also a bit too big for me as well, especially that protrusion at the top. Changing the tips to something longer helps though, by moving the bottom of the IEM out a bit so the wire's ear-hook doesn't push the protrusion into the ear as much.

I do love the sound of them too


----------



## myromeo

Received a pair of ZS10 Pro’s today with upgraded KZ OFC 8 strand cable. Never having owned true IEM’s before I didn’t know what to expect. For the price, paired with my NW-A105 I’m very impressed. Upgrade cable has a nice feel to it, soft, flexible with decent quality connectors. I didn’t bother even unwrapping the stock cable, read nothing good about it so it’s relegated to spare. Stock tips fit my ears nicely and are comfortable. What’s the score with the star tips?


----------



## RikudouGoku

myromeo said:


> Received a pair of ZS10 Pro’s today with upgraded KZ OFC 8 strand cable. Never having owned true IEM’s before I didn’t know what to expect. For the price, paired with my NW-A105 I’m very impressed. Upgrade cable has a nice feel to it, soft, flexible with decent quality connectors. I didn’t bother even unwrapping the stock cable, read nothing good about it so it’s relegated to spare. Stock tips fit my ears nicely and are comfortable. What’s the score with the star tips?


The stock tips are quite good on KZ´s. The starline tips are basically a super budget Final Audio Type E tips.


----------



## skreddy

Been listening to the DQ6. They aren't doing anything for me apart from looking pretty. There is nothing wrong with them but their tuning bores me to death.


----------



## skreddy

myromeo said:


> Received a pair of ZS10 Pro’s today with upgraded KZ OFC 8 strand cable. Never having owned true IEM’s before I didn’t know what to expect. For the price, paired with my NW-A105 I’m very impressed. Upgrade cable has a nice feel to it, soft, flexible with decent quality connectors. I didn’t bother even unwrapping the stock cable, read nothing good about it so it’s relegated to spare. Stock tips fit my ears nicely and are comfortable. What’s the score with the star tips?



Try some double flange tips or some foam tips (if you can get them deep enough) and your mind will be blown. Totally changed my opinion on these. Was about to sell them till I tried my double flanges.


----------



## myromeo

skreddy said:


> Try some double flange tips or some foam tips (if you can get them deep enough) and your mind will be blown. Totally changed my opinion on these. Was about to sell them till I tried my double flanges.


I’ve got a pack of foam tips but I’ve never found them very comfortable. I’ll try with these IEM’s tho. They actually came with three pairs of foam tips too.

Any tips on forming the over ear cable to sit more naturally around my ears? Can I safely warm the cable sleeve up and allow it to set in my desired shape?


----------



## skreddy

myromeo said:


> I’ve got a pack of foam tips but I’ve never found them very comfortable. I’ll try with these IEM’s tho. They actually came with three pairs of foam tips too.
> 
> Any tips on forming the over ear cable to sit more naturally around my ears? Can I safely warm the cable sleeve up and allow it to set in my desired shape?


I don't know. I don't like the stock cable mainly because it tangles too easily. They probably do it on purpose too to make fools like me spend more money on cables.


----------



## myromeo

skreddy said:


> I don't know. I don't like the stock cable mainly because it tangles too easily. They probably do it on purpose too to make fools like me spend more money on cables.


Sorry, should have mentioned this isn’t the stock cable, that is safely in the box, in its plastic bag, unopened. Just where it will stay! I’m using a KZ 8 core cable, it appears significantly better than the stock cable


----------



## AmericanSpirit

myromeo said:


> Sorry, should have mentioned this isn’t the stock cable, that is safely in the box, in its plastic bag, unopened. Just where it will stay! I’m using a KZ 8 core cable, it appears significantly better than the stock cable


Great! DQ6 stock cable IMO kinda stinks...Better than EDX one but still lots of chemical odor. Welcome to KZ/CCA club


----------



## myromeo

So to answer my own question, yes, a little heat allows the over ear bit to be reshaped easily. Happy days.


----------



## IEMusic

sutosuto said:


> This might sound strange, I feel my DQ6 bass is faster than my LZ A6.
> I wish the DQ6 would be smaller size as it is quite painful for long hour listening.


Not strange.   The DQ6 has remarkably fast and agile bass, regarless of price.   Bass speed is better than the ZAX IMO.  I would say it approaches the level of the LZ A7.  Glad you like it.


RikudouGoku said:


> You sure? I might buy the dq6 during the next end of March sale then...


Go for it, it‘s so cheap, even if you end up hating it.  The DQ6 seems quite representative of the Tri-DD sound, so it’s a new experience, even if ultimately a side-grade.


RikudouGoku said:


> The stock tips are quite good on KZ´s. The starline tips are basically a super budget Final Audio Type E tips.


Unfortunately, the DQ6 comes with crap ear tips.  I would prefer the Starlines, but the IEM nozzle is narrow.


skreddy said:


> Been listening to the DQ6. They aren't doing anything for me apart from looking pretty. There is nothing wrong with them but their tuning bores me to death.


Not surprising.   I think the Tri-DD IEM sound is a bit polarizing, in that some (like me) are just amazed at how they sound, whereas other find it very “meh” or wonky sounding.


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMusic said:


> Not strange.   The DQ6 has remarkably fast and agile bass, regarless of price.   Bass speed is better than the ZAX IMO.  I would say it approaches the level of the LZ A7.  Glad you like it.
> 
> Go for it, it‘s so cheap, even if you end up hating it.  The DQ6 seems quite representative of the Tri-DD sound, so it’s a new experience, even if ultimately a side-grade.
> 
> ...


Do you think that the DQ6 is a good "demo" of the UM 3DT?


----------



## IEMusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Do you think that the DQ6 is a good "demo" of the UM 3DT?


The tuning is a bit different, but there are similarities in the overall sound signature.  I think it is quite a good representation.   If you really don’t like the DQ6, you probably won’t like the 3DT either.   I don’t know about the DMagic though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMusic said:


> The tuning is a bit different, but there are similarities in the overall sound signature.  I think it is quite a good representation.   If you really don’t like the DQ6, you probably won’t like the 3DT either.   I don’t know about the DMagic though.


Alright, I am getting it during the end of march sale lol.


----------



## JazzVinyl

IEMusic said:


> Unfortunately, the DQ6 comes with crap ear tips.  I would prefer the Starlines, but the IEM nozzle is narrow.


Agree, the very first thing I did was to remove DQ6's crummy ear tips and walk them over to the rubbish bin.
Put on a pair of tips that i know fit me well...  

Instant success.


----------



## G777 (Mar 12, 2021)

myromeo said:


> I’ve got a pack of foam tips but I’ve never found them very comfortable. I’ll try with these IEM’s tho. They actually came with three pairs of foam tips too.
> 
> Any tips on forming the over ear cable to sit more naturally around my ears? Can I safely warm the cable sleeve up and allow it to set in my desired shape?


I've used a hairdryer to heat up the pre-formed hooks with moderate success. After you heat it up, you'll need a way to hold it to the desired shape and let it cool. Probably will take a few tries.


----------



## Podster

Hey fellow KZ fans, just stopped in to see if anyone else out here in KZ land had this setup






I have a whopping $36 invested in this gem


----------



## Podster

Here's another one, this one means a lot to Pod as he gave this player to Hungry Panda and as many know I don't believe he got to spend near enough time with it Hopefully MB kept it and listens to it from time to time


----------



## riodgarp

dunno if it's because of the dq6 housing shape kinda stuck in my ears or the stock cable is just hanging awkwardly, I found that using dq6 after a period make my ear fatique


----------



## tgx78

Listening to these two tonight.


----------



## CT007 (Mar 12, 2021)

Been back on the YBF tonight. For as much butt as ZAX kicks. . . . YBF is still one straight-up deadly killer of an IEM. I like YBF more because it's not as sharp/fatiguing and has deeper, nicer bass, but I like ZAX more because it sounds more realistic/refined and less dry. If you don't want to EQ, mod, and/or want to avoid excessive treble, get a YBF instead of ZAX. These are both in my current Top 5, pretty much tied for #1.


----------



## baskingshark (Mar 12, 2021)

CT007 said:


> Been back on the YBF tonight. For as much butt as ZAX kicks. . . . YBF is still one straight-up deadly killer of an IEM. I like YBF more because it's not as sharp/fatiguing, but I like ZAX more because it sounds more realistic/refined and less dry. If you don't want to EQ, mod, and/or want to avoid excessive treble, get a YBF instead of ZAX. These are both in my current Top 5, pretty much tied for #1.



I really like my Urbanfun YBF-ISS014 for the great bass texture and bass extension. Soundwise, it probably will be in my top 5 for single DD sets (assuming it is the beryllium driver version), but I can't recommend it cause the problem with this set is twofold:

1) *Problematic QC: Wonky MMCX connectors *- even in newer packaged sets (which come in a white box instead of black box), there are recent forum reports claiming that the MMCX connectors have failure. I would advise to just leave a cable on it and don't frequently swap cables. This QC issue is disappointing as when the Urbanfun was originally released, it was going at $30ish USD. After it was hyped to the moon on a certain youtube video review, the sellers went to do a price gouge and increased the price to $60ish USD, claiming that the price increase was justified for fixing the QC issues. But after almost a year past release, we still see wonky MMCX complaints in forums, which should be a very easy area to correct. FWIW, I bought my Urbanfun 2nd hand and it has a wonky MMCX.

2) *Driver doubt* - there's 2 versions of the drivers out there, a "noble metal" version which is more U shaped and the beryllium version (more V shaped). The latter is the supposedly hyped version. The tuning is different between the 2, but even among consumers and reviewers, it is hard to tell which version comes in the mailbox. Maybe the sellers themselves do not know which version they got from their supplier too.

How does one tell if their Urbanfun YBF-ISS014 is a “noble metal” or beryllium driver? Well credit to @Slater , who writes this:

*“The only way to tell is to remove the nozzle mesh and shine a light onto the driver inside the shell. There is a very small hole in the center of the metal cover over the driver, and you can see the center dome of the diaphragm.

Using a powerful magnifying glass, you should be able to tell what type the driver is.

If it is highly reflective, like a chrome mirror finish, then it is the beryllium driver. If it is dull greyish/silver metal, and does NOT have a mirror finish, then it is the noble metal version.”






TLDR:
“My Mom Always Said Life Was Like A Box Of Urbanfuns. You Never Know What You’re Gonna Get.” *Statement courtesy of Headfier @lgcubana  and Forrest Gump.

The Urbanfun is a nice sounding set for bass lovers, unfortunately it is marred by QC issues and driver doubt. I'd give it a soft recommendation only to buy it from places with a robust returns policy eg Amazon, in case a lemon comes in the mail. A big pity that the good sound is not discussed as much as the QC problems, which can be easily fixed actually.


----------



## cappuchino

baskingshark said:


> *If it is dull greyish/silver metal, and does NOT have a mirror finish, then it is the noble metal version.”*


What is noble metal? Is it a "unique" diaphragm material (like Be or Ti) or just standard like bio-cellulose or PET?

The KP580 has *exactly *the same "dull greyish/silver metal" you are describing, so I got curious.


----------



## baskingshark (Mar 12, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> What is noble metal? Is it a "unique" diaphragm material (like Be or Ti) or just standard like bio-cellulose or PET?
> 
> The KP580 has *exactly *the same "dull greyish/silver metal" you are describing, so I got curious.



According to master Slater, the “noble metal” driver is apparently an aluminum-magnesium alloy. He does DIY stuff and opened up the nozzle to peek in (which I don't have the skills to), but I'd trust him on this, more so that he has both versions of the Urbanfun and he says the sound different (don't think it is only unit variance per se as other consumers on the Urbanfun thread do report the 2 drivers sound different). U can ask master Slater more about it!

Well 2020 was the year of the beryllium driver hype, and a lot of CHIFI brands wanted to ride on the marketing that their IEMs contained a beryllium plated/coated driver. Beryllium is supposed to give very well textured bass, good transients and is supposed to take EQ like a champ. But I suspect quite a few budget CHIFI are just sprinkling a few particles (if at all) and then marketing it, cause a few budget purported beryllium sets I've heard didn't sound that way. Beryllium is also supposedly toxic to process IIRC, so perhaps the "noble metal" version may be safer for the manufacturers. I'm actually very surprised that KZ and their eternal rivals TRN haven't jumped onto the beryllium hype train yet!


----------



## cappuchino

baskingshark said:


> According to master Slater, the “noble metal” driver is apparently an aluminum-magnesium alloy. He does DIY stuff and opened up the nozzle to peak in (which I don't have the skills to), but I'd trust him on this, more so that he has both versions of the Urbanfun and he says the sound different (don't think it is only unit variance per se as other consumers on the Urbanfun thread do report the 2 drivers sound different). U can ask master Slater more about it!
> 
> Well 2020 was the year of the beryllium driver hype, and a lot of CHIFI brands wanted to ride on the marketing that their IEMs contained a beryllium plated/coated driver. Beryllium is supposed to give very well textured bass, good transients and is supposed to take EQ like a champ. But I suspect quite a few budget CHIFI are just sprinkling a few particles (if at all) and then marketing it, cause a few budget purported beryllium sets I've heard didn't sound that way. Beryllium is also supposedly toxic to process IIRC, so perhaps the "noble metal" version may be safer for the manufacturers. I'm actually very surprised that KZ and their eternal rivals TRN haven't jumped onto the beryllium hype train yet!


Thanks a lot for the info! Wish @Slater was still active but I haven't seen him anywhere on head-fi for weeks now.


----------



## CT007 (Mar 12, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> I really like my Urbanfun YBF-ISS014 for the great bass texture and bass extension. Soundwise, it probably will be in my top 5 for single DD sets (assuming it is the beryllium driver version), but I can't recommend it cause the problem with this set is twofold:
> 
> 1) *Problematic QC: Wonky MMCX connectors*
> 
> 2) *Driver doubt*


I would combat these by:

*1)* Just don't change the cable; it's fine.

*2)* Just buy one and see what you get, like I did. You get amazing sound for only $65. Then you probably have a 1 year warranty on them, if not 30 day return. Order a longer warranty, if you're worried. Send them back if it doesn't sound magical to you.

My $350 BGVP DM8 has more issues than this little guy, but both are trucking along just fine. And YBF sounds better than nearly all my IEMs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

CT007 said:


> I would combat these by:
> 
> *1)* Just don't change the cable; it's fine.
> 
> ...


I wouldnt recommend anyone spending their money on something thats so uncertain like the YBF. And even more importantly is that giving them more money than they already got for their crappy business strategy is not something I will do. They are blacklisted for me.


----------



## unifutomaki

RikudouGoku said:


> I wouldnt recommend anyone spending their money on something thats so uncertain like the YBF. And even more importantly is that giving them more money than they already got for their crappy business strategy is not something I will do. They are blacklisted for me.


And I'm willing to bet that there are better, more reliable, and more value-for-money options than the YBF anyway


----------



## RikudouGoku

unifutomaki said:


> And I'm willing to bet that there are better, more reliable, and more value-for-money options than the YBF anyway


...well....to be fair. I actually dont know any other iems in that price range that has that same beryllium bass...


----------



## unifutomaki

RikudouGoku said:


> ...well....to be fair. I actually dont know any other iems in that price range that has that same beryllium bass...


Well... they could have other equally worthy qualities


----------



## RikudouGoku

unifutomaki said:


> Well... they could have other equally worthy qualities


True, but if one wants both bass quantity and quality. I dont know any other sets that does it as well as the YBF.

But maybe the DQ6 will change that lol.


----------



## CT007 (Mar 12, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I wouldnt recommend anyone spending their money on something thats so uncertain like the YBF. And even more importantly is that giving them more money than they already got for their crappy business strategy is not something I will do. They are blacklisted for me.


I would, because what is the statistical chance of getting a bad set? Low, right? Is it even 5%..?  Don't let that small % do all the talking. And you have your warranty and return period. An IEM this good, this cheap, is worth chasing. Even if they never make a successor model.

What is their business strategy? Good sound for cheap? Don't they make a nice sounding headphone, as well? I have no idea what it is, or what any company's is :/ I'm just here for the sound lol, and YBF got it in spades, baby. YBF sounds better than L3 and probably L4, for whatever Linsoul's strat is, and whatever they do with their money. And I've seen quality reports and concerns even on L4, and of course L3.


----------



## RikudouGoku

CT007 said:


> I would, because what is the statistical chance of getting a bad set? Low, right? And you have your warranty and return period. An IEM this good, this cheap, is worth chasing. Even if they never make a successor model.
> 
> What is their business strategy? Don't they make a nice sounding headphone, as well? I have no idea what it is, or what any company's is :/ I'm just here for the sound lol, and YBF got it in spades, baby.


Returning chi-fi products means paying the return shipment yourself, which might cost the same as the YBF.


Here is basically how their strategy works:

1. Starts to sell them at 40 usd
2. reports of bad qc
3. YBF promises to fix it
4. Second gen, costs 60 usd
5. still got bad QC
6. promises to fix QC (again)
7. A certain reviewer hyped it up
8. Raises price to 80-100 usd
9. QC still not fixed
10. Reports on different driver types came up despite them telling buyers they are buying the beryllium coated version.
11. Fast forward to current day, still reports on QC popping up and still uncertain driver concerns. 


You still want to give them more money? I sure wont.


----------



## unifutomaki (Mar 12, 2021)

For me, if I were giving buying advice, I would feel a certain responsibility to recommend something that I'm confident isn't going to go wrong for the person who's actually investing hard earned money in this stuff. Even if there is a return/refund process (which if we're talking AliExpress, forget about it basically), it's still a source of additional hassle and inconvenience that the person is going to be put through, to be without a pair of IEMs while the issue gets resolved. So no, if some ChiFi is going to come along with numerous reports of issues , I'm not recommending it even if it is made from unobtainium and moon rocks.

It's also not just a bad MMCX problem. It's a "not knowing what you're actually going to get inside the IEM unless you perform a destructive procedure and fiddle" problem. It's a rampant price inflation problem. All of this makes for a superbly bad recommendation.


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> True, but if one wants both bass quantity and quality. I dont know any other sets that does it as well as the YBF.
> 
> But maybe the DQ6 will change that lol.


Yea, the bass on the DQ6 is sounding really really good right now, and I can also vouch that it does compete equally well with the YBF.


----------



## CT007 (Mar 12, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Returning chi-fi products means paying the return shipment yourself, which might cost the same as the YBF.
> 
> 8. Raises price to 80-100 usd


Well, they are $69 on Amazon in US, free standard return/replacement. They were $59 when I bought mine on Linsoul. If you are in China, then I'm sure there is an equivalent store with free local returns for you there.


----------



## Jitu13

CT007 said:


> Well, they are $69 on Amazon in US, free standard return/replacement. They were $59 when I bought mine on Linsoul. If you are in China, then I'm sure there is an equivalent store with free local returns for you there.


Well how many times would you return it?? Let's say the probability of getting the bad drivers are 30% (should be a good estimate,  after all they have two products), so 3 out of 10 get the bad driver. What is the chance of getting two consecutive bad drivers?? 9%, or about 1 in 10. That's a lot of return potential. Not to mention 3 out of 100 people will have to return it thrice to get the correct one.
The worst problem in all of this is the following, it's a company certified knock-off!! That's the worst type of company that you can be!!


----------



## CT007 (Mar 13, 2021)

Jitu13 said:


> Well how many times would you return it?? Let's say the probability of getting the bad drivers are 30% (should be a good estimate,  after all they have two products), so 3 out of 10 get the bad driver. What is the chance of getting two consecutive bad drivers?? 9%, or about 1 in 10. That's a lot of return potential. Not to mention 3 out of 100 people will have to return it thrice to get the correct one.
> The worst problem in all of this is the following, it's a company certified knock-off!! That's the worst type of company that you can be!!


Why not just buy it once, then return it once, if it's not as it should be? 70% is still good odds, assuming the defect rate is 30%(quite high and probably not accurate, IMO). Still worth chasing. Mine are fine, after all this time, as probably are nearly everyone who got them on Amazon. If it was that bad, I don't think they would be on the market still. I have never really cared about the company that makes an audio product; just about the product itself. I'm not buying shares of their stock here; I'm buying a killer-sounding IEM while the opportunity/fortune to do so exists. YBF is a special IEM, even today, no matter the few, outspoken naysayers. An S-rank, in fact. 👍


----------



## MacAttack7

KZ ASX going for $67.15 today if anyone is interested.
That was with a $3 coupon that popped up when I logged in.


----------



## trumpethead

MacAttack7 said:


> KZ ASX going for $67.15 today if anyone is interested.
> That was with a $3 coupon that popped up when I logged in.


Thanks for the KZ diversion, I thought I was in the wrong thread for a minute..lol!😁😂


----------



## IEMusic

When did the UrbanFun thread get revived....oh wait....



RikudouGoku said:


> True, but if one wants both bass quantity and quality. I dont know any other sets that does it as well as the YBF.
> 
> But maybe the DQ6 will change that lol.


It won‘t, IMHO.   The DQ6 has fast, punchy, detailed, textured bass, that I find up to the task for all metal genres, however, the bass quantity is not nearly as much as my YBF, and it doesn’t have that visceral bass effect.  Unfortunately, I have yet to hear an IEM that has similar sounding bass.  There are many that have bass that is just as good overall, and in some ways better, but not the same.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Mar 12, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> When did the UrbanFun thread get revived....oh wait....
> 
> 
> It won‘t, IMHO.   The DQ6 has fast, punchy, detailed, textured bass, that I find up to the task for all metal genres, however, the bass quantity is not nearly as much as my YBF, and it doesn’t have that visceral bass effect.  Unfortunately, I have yet to hear an IEM that has similar sounding bass.  There are many that have bass that is just as good overall, and in some ways better, but not the same.


You could have let me dream lol.

The FD5 is the upgrade to the YBF.





But well....nothing else in the YBF´s price range is close to its quality/quantity from what I know.

EDIT: Although I believe Crinacle´s YBF isnt the beryllium version.




Looks very different from mine.


----------



## CT007 (Mar 13, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> The FD5 is the upgrade to the YBF.


I'm gonna have to disagree. I don't think YBF needs an upgrade.  FD5 is some kind of mutant alien IEM from the future, and YBF is just a really nice, regular sounding IEM =p YBF would be more pleasant for most people, and drier; FD5 more intense/sharper and technical/exacting.

Oh god, not _you _with the non-color corresponding graph text, too!! X_X When will it end lol


----------



## courierdriver

RikudouGoku said:


> I wouldnt recommend anyone spending their money on something thats so uncertain like the YBF. And even more importantly is that giving them more money than they already got for their crappy business strategy is not something I will do. They are blacklisted for me.


Yes, agreed. I ended up with 2 sets; and neither were the beryllium version. I managed to sell one set but still have another in my collection. It's rather non exciting or special. Haven't had any problems with the mmcx connections; I just don't think the noble version compares well to anything else that I have. I barely use it anymore because there are other sets that I think sound much better.


----------



## unifutomaki (Mar 13, 2021)

KZ SKS - USD 40 TWS set featuring Apt-X, finally








SG$ 59.48  41%OFF | KZ SKS 1DD+1BA True Wireless TWS Earphones Bluetooth 5.2 Hybrid  Game Earbuds Touch Control Noise Cancelling Sport Headset https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0i8mth


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> KZ SKS - USD 40 TWS set featuring Apt-X, finally
> 
> 
> SG$ 59.48  41%OFF | KZ SKS 1DD+1BA True Wireless TWS Earphones Bluetooth 5.2 Hybrid  Game Earbuds Touch Control Noise Cancelling Sport Headset https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0i8mth



Looks nice specs wise and for the shells. Previous KZ TWS sets had battery life problems and sometimes BT connectivity issue. I do hope they can fix these areas for this set.


----------



## RCracer777

unifutomaki said:


> KZ SKS - USD 40 TWS set featuring Apt-X, finally
> 
> 
> SG$ 59.48  41%OFF | KZ SKS 1DD+1BA True Wireless TWS Earphones Bluetooth 5.2 Hybrid  Game Earbuds Touch Control Noise Cancelling Sport Headset https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0i8mth


Looks interesting. Might pick one op if the reviews are good.



baskingshark said:


> Looks nice specs wise and for the shells. Previous KZ TWS sets had battery life problems and sometimes BT connectivity issue. I do hope they can fix these areas for this set.


I doubt it, the BT 5.2 should help a bit with connectivity if the host device supports it and will help a lot with battery life. But is does mention 8x recharge from the case which either means that case has the biggest battery it could possibly fit or the buds have a tiny battery.

That said my SoundPEATS Sonic are my smallest TWS yet have the longest battery life at 15 hours due to BT 5.2 and apt-x adaptive. Sounds good too but with a big sub bass boost while from the midbass on it's more a mild v-shape. Weird tuning but somehow it works.


----------



## saldsald

unifutomaki said:


> KZ SKS - USD 40 TWS set featuring Apt-X, finally
> 
> 
> SG$ 59.48  41%OFF | KZ SKS 1DD+1BA True Wireless TWS Earphones Bluetooth 5.2 Hybrid  Game Earbuds Touch Control Noise Cancelling Sport Headset https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0i8mth


Must be the bluetooth version of the CCA CSN.


----------



## chinmie

RCracer777 said:


> Looks interesting. Might pick one op if the reviews are good.
> 
> 
> I doubt it, the BT 5.2 should help a bit with connectivity if the host device supports it and will help a lot with battery life. But is does mention 8x recharge from the case which either means that case has the biggest battery it could possibly fit or the buds have a tiny battery.
> ...



and i saw Morph Audio (if I'm not mistaken it's an offshoot of Creative) in a kickstarter project making TWS that has 24 hour on a single charge and have a single Knowles BA driver. looks like the future is bright for battery technologies


----------



## r31ya

KZ-SKS
There are no battery life information
There are no battery size on IEM information

It's just 400 mAh in case, capable for 8x charge, so around 50mAh in the IEMs (25mAh each)


----------



## Danjen22

unifutomaki said:


> KZ SKS - USD 40 TWS set featuring Apt-X, finally
> 
> 
> SG$ 59.48  41%OFF | KZ SKS 1DD+1BA True Wireless TWS Earphones Bluetooth 5.2 Hybrid  Game Earbuds Touch Control Noise Cancelling Sport Headset https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0i8mth


Just ordered to replace my S1D.

Thanks


----------



## G777

r31ya said:


> KZ-SKS
> There are no battery life information
> There are no battery size on IEM information
> 
> It's just 400 mAh in case, capable for 8x charge, so around 50mAh in the IEMs (25mAh each)


Sounds like 2hr battery life again 😆


----------



## SoundChoice (Mar 13, 2021)

.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Mar 14, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> The DQ6 has remarkably fast and agile bass, regardless of price.
> Bass speed is better than the ZAX IMO.  I would say it approaches the level of the LZ A7.



I keep going back and forth about whether or not I should reorder the ZAX.
I have the CKX, which, along with the DQ6, is a KZ/CCA must have, in my opinion.

The ZAX reportedly has more "air" than the CKX but I'm not sure that the difference is worth the effort or coin to acquire it.

Any feedback provided by members of the community comparing the two (ZAX & CKX) would be greatly appreciated.





IEMusic said:


> The DQ6 seems quite representative of the Tri-DD sound, so it’s a new experience, even if ultimately a side-grade.



DQ6 presentation definitely has a character all its own.  Again, it's a must have, IMO.
FWIW, I don't use stock tips or stock cable.
Source is Plenue-2 or Plenue-R without DSP enabled at moderate listening levels.





IEMusic said:


> C) Unfortunately, the DQ6 comes with crap ear tips.  I would prefer the Starlines, but the IEM nozzle is narrow.



KZ starlines fit my DQ6 perfectly.
I use different eartips, though.





tgx78 said:


> Listening to these two tonight.



My DQ6 have been in regular rotation for a couple of weeks now.
It's difficult to put them on the shelf in order to keep other IEMs in rotation.

PAST WEEK ROTATION:
DD) DQ6
BA) AS12
HYBRID) CKX


THIS WEEKS ROTATION (starting Sunday evening):
DD) TIN T1
BA) KB EAR F1
HYBRID) BQEYZ KC2


That said, I'm putting an order in for the Open Heart Resin for next week's DD.










and the CKX definitely deserves to have another special cable so...













KB EAR F1 will be getting an Open Heart cable as well.









Spoiler



















and finally, my ZODIC ET2201 gets an Open Heart cable, too.








The ZODIC ET2201 (2+2 hybrid) and new cable will be the hybrid in rotation next week.

Grand total for Open Heart Graphene DD IEM and the three cables? $80!!!

I'll  probably pick up an assortment of inexpensive but interesting eartips as well.

Have fun and enjoy the journey!




Listening on my CKX just one more time before turning the page  (rotation).


----------



## DynamicEars

unifutomaki said:


> KZ SKS - USD 40 TWS set featuring Apt-X, finally
> 
> 
> SG$ 59.48  41%OFF | KZ SKS 1DD+1BA True Wireless TWS Earphones Bluetooth 5.2 Hybrid  Game Earbuds Touch Control Noise Cancelling Sport Headset https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0i8mth



Its DQ6 shell in TWS form, chipset looks good with QCC3040, but why not triple DDs with 10mm XUN bass????


----------



## voicemaster

Alpha Whale said:


> I keep going back and forth about whether or not I should reorder the ZAX.
> I have the CKX, which, along with the DQ6, is a KZ/CCA must have, in my opinion.
> 
> The ZAX reportedly has more "air" than the CKX but I'm not sure that the difference is worth the effort or coin to acquire it.
> ...



No need to get zax if you already have ckx imho. They both sound similar with zax having a little bit more splash on the treble but the ckx has a little bit fuller bass. The zax can sound artificial and the extra splash on the treble can be a bit too much on certain tracks while the ckx is more natural sounding imho. Alao the ckx has all metal body vs plastic in the zax.


----------



## myromeo

Has anyone received a pair of ZS10 Pro recently with the KZ ‘upgrade cable’? I can’t speak for high end cables but it’s a huge step up on the stock cable. 8 strand, very soft, hasn’t tangled yet. Ear hooks were a little off on arrival, nothing a small heat up didn’t fix.


----------



## astermk

I have the 8-core CCA upgrade cable. Not that bad of a cable quality wise, but since it's red, white and blue, it looks like toothpaste. The KZ variant looks nicer, but they are allergic to chin sliders for some reason.


myromeo said:


> Has anyone received a pair of ZS10 Pro recently with the KZ ‘upgrade cable’? I can’t speak for high end cables but it’s a huge step up on the stock cable. 8 strand, very soft, hasn’t tangled yet. Ear hooks were a little off on arrival, nothing a small heat up didn’t fix.


----------



## CT007 (Mar 14, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> The ZAX reportedly has more "air" than the CKX but I'm not sure that the difference is worth the effort or coin to acquire it.
> 
> Any feedback provided by members of the community comparing the two (ZAX & CKX)


Well, ZAX is the cheaper one, innit? $68 vs $102 for mine.

Was an easy call to send the CKX back. Not as good sounding to me, and too small shell. But still very good sounding, just a little bit behind ZAX IMO. I liked it more than DQ6. Apply your effort toward getting a berry YBF, IMO ;P THAT is worth it... I kept ZAX, YBF, ZSN Pro; sent back CKX, DQ6, TC-01, EA1.


----------



## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> Well, ZAX is the cheaper one, innit? $68 vs $102 for mine.
> 
> Was an easy call to send the CKX back. Not as good sounding to me, and too small shell. But still very good sounding, just a little bit behind ZAX IMO. I liked it more than DQ6. Apply your effort toward getting a berry YBF, IMO ;P THAT is worth it... I kept ZAX, YBF, ZSN Pro; sent back CKX, DQ6, TC-01, EA1.


Judging by your choice to keep zax and zsn pro, you most likely like a brighter treble sounding iem. CKX is $58 on AliExpress, I just ordered another pair yesterday.


----------



## CT007 (Mar 14, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Judging by your choice to keep zax and zsn pro, you most likely like a brighter treble sounding iem.


Yeah, the clarity has to be there. That's why HD600 didn't do it for me. ZSN P are my lowest-end pick, and ZAX/YBF for $50+. I enjoyed AS10 a lot, until I got ZAX and realized how distant the mids are lol. Still sound nice, tho! I still find ZAX and YBF to have some slightly too bright peaks, still. They are not _quite_ perfect, but are easy Top 5 IEMs in my pile.


----------



## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> Yeah, the clarity has to be there. That's why HD600 didn't do it for me. ZSN P are my lowest-end pick, and ZAX/YBF for $50+. I enjoyed AS10 a lot, until I got ZAX and realized how distant the mids are lol. Still sound nice, tho!


The ZAX is a fantastic iem for the money. I have two pairs myself.


----------



## courierdriver

myromeo said:


> Has anyone received a pair of ZS10 Pro recently with the KZ ‘upgrade cable’? I can’t speak for high end cables but it’s a huge step up on the stock cable. 8 strand, very soft, hasn’t tangled yet. Ear hooks were a little off on arrival, nothing a small heat up didn’t fix.


Looks like a nice cable. Problem I have with KZ upgrade cables is: no balanced option and no chin slider...on any I've seen.


----------



## myromeo

myromeo said:


> Has anyone received a pair of ZS10 Pro recently with the KZ ‘upgrade cable’? I can’t speak for high end cables but it’s a huge step up on the stock cable. 8 strand, very soft, hasn’t tangled yet. Ear hooks were a little off on arrival, nothing a small heat up didn’t fix.


I found the cable for sale separately if anyone is interested. It seems decent for the money.


￡5.99  50％ Off | KZ Headset Cable 8 Core High Oxygen-free Copper Upgrade Cable 3.5mm Plug Earphone Cable For KZ ZS10 PRO ZAX ASX ZSX ZSN PRO DQ6
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN2q9mP


----------



## whirlwind

myromeo said:


> Has anyone received a pair of ZS10 Pro recently with the KZ ‘upgrade cable’? I can’t speak for high end cables but it’s a huge step up on the stock cable. 8 strand, very soft, hasn’t tangled yet. Ear hooks were a little off on arrival, nothing a small heat up didn’t fix.


That looks like a great stock cable for ZS10 Pro...I usually replace all of my cables with a 16 core version just to get rid of the cable getting tangled miserably.
Great job by KZ to include this cable.


----------



## astermk

whirlwind said:


> That looks like a great stock cable for ZS10 Pro...I usually replace all of my cables with a 16 core version just to get rid of the cable getting tangled miserably.
> Great job by KZ to include this cable.


It's not a stock cable, that's an upgrade cable you have to pay extra for.


----------



## whirlwind

astermk said:


> It's not a stock cable, that's an upgrade cable you have to pay extra for.


Oh my bad.. I misread...I guess that would have been to good to be true.


----------



## chifihead

myromeo said:


> Has anyone received a pair of ZS10 Pro recently with the KZ ‘upgrade cable’? I can’t speak for high end cables but it’s a huge step up on the stock cable. 8 strand, very soft, hasn’t tangled yet. Ear hooks were a little off on arrival, nothing a small heat up didn’t fix.


Interesting color choice there.. Would look good with the Whizzer I would guess!


----------



## myromeo

chifihead said:


> Interesting color choice there.. Would look good with the Whizzer I would guess!


Must admit I would have preferred silver plated but there was no option for this. I had the choice of stock 4c or this 8c and for less than £5 it was an obvious choice.


----------



## MacAttack7

I found the new copper cable a little too thick and heavy, but just barely. Some people prefer that type of cable.
The KZ gold/silver cable feels about right to me.

I saw some KZ cables last night that I never noticed before....maybe they are new.
There was an 8-core gold/silver/copper cable with 784 total cores, and an 8-core silver/blue cable with 784 total cores.
I have no idea how to decide if one cable is better than another. The gold/silver one I like is 8-core, 200 total cores.

Then there is core diameter. The one I like is 0.08, but it looks like those other two are 0.05. Not sure if that has any relevance.


----------



## 1clearhead

Discovering* KZ* and *CCA* budget kings!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-16244495

Enjoy!

-Clear


----------



## CT007

1clearhead said:


> Discovering* KZ* and *CCA* budget kings!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-16244495
> 
> ...


Not a ZAX fan, huh? ZAX > CKX & DQ6, IMO.


----------



## 1clearhead

CT007 said:


> Not a ZAX fan, huh? ZAX > CKX & DQ6, IMO.


Haha, just doing the lowest budget ones for now.


----------



## rattywolf

Does anybody knows good fitting tips for KZ ZST X that don't fall off? I didn't try foams as I am not into it, but stock tips are too loose and I may lost them.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

rattywolf said:


> Does anybody knows good fitting tips for KZ ZST X that don't fall off? I didn't try foams as I am not into it, but stock tips are too loose and I may lost them.


There are a few cheap after market tips like Tennmak Whirlwind, Spinfits, Spiral dots etc. Tips are personal in nature as they directly impact the SQ and tonality of your IEMs. You can check this thread as a starting point - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-iem-tips.626895/


----------



## raccoon city (Mar 18, 2021)

rattywolf said:


> Does anybody knows good fitting tips for KZ ZST X that don't fall off? I didn't try foams as I am not into it, but stock tips are too loose and I may lost them.


If you have large ear holes like I do, this thread is very helpful:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/big-eared-people-unite.697211/
(Check out my posts in that thread to see what I use for my KZ IEMs.)


----------



## rattywolf

raccoon city said:


> If you have large ear holes like I do, this thread is very helpful:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/big-eared-people-unite.697211/
> (Check out my posts in that thread to see what I use for my KZ IEMs.)


The problem is not the tips fall out of my ears, they are not tight on the nozzles of the earphones itself, so I am looking for something thicker in that part where tip connects an earphone


----------



## raccoon city (Mar 19, 2021)

rattywolf said:


> The problem is not the tips fall out of my ears, they are not tight on the nozzles of the earphones itself, so I am looking for something thicker in that part where tip connects an earphone


Oh, okay.
My mom has that same problem.
She uses the KZ stock eartips, and they fall off pretty easily.
I don't have that problem with my eartips, but my eartips are only recommended if you have large ear holes.
Otherwise, there are probably better choices out there.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

rattywolf said:


> The problem is not the tips fall out of my ears, they are not tight on the nozzles of the earphones itself, so I am looking for something thicker in that part where tip connects an earphone


You can try Slater's flip tips mod. I'm unfortunately unable to find the link to it but it's super helpful and will improve the grip on your lEMs nozzle


----------



## IEMusic (Mar 19, 2021)

rattywolf said:


> Does anybody knows good fitting tips for KZ ZST X that don't fall off? I didn't try foams as I am not into it, but stock tips are too loose and I may lost them.


I don’t have the ZST X, but if the problem is that the nozzles are too narrow, and many ear tips fall off of the nozzle, then look into Final Audio E tips.  They have relatively narrow cores, that are really rigid, and grip very tightly to IEM nozzles. They are narrow bore ear tips.  If you want wide bore ear tips, look into Azla Sedna EarFit tips.   The also have rigid and grippy cores, but they have a little wider cores than the Final Es.


----------



## rattywolf

IEMusic said:


> I don’t have the ZST X, but if the problem is that the nozzles are too narrow, and many ear tips fall off of the nozzle, then look into Final Audio E tips.  They have relatively narrow cores, that are really rigid, and grip very tightly to IEM nozzles. They are narrow bore ear tips.  If you want wide bore ear tips, look into Azla Sedna EarFit tips.   The also have rigid and grippy cores, but they have a little wider cores than the Final Es.


Thank you, seems like this is what I need


----------



## forestitalia (Mar 19, 2021)

I had my Zax, was listen to them with my LG and Esi100 and ..ok, but had impression are difficult to drive so I attached them to a desktop amplifier: holy the smoke, are amazing!
What can buy to use the Zax commuting, Kann?


----------



## RCracer777

forestitalia said:


> I had my Zax, was listen to them with my LG and Esi100 and ..ok, but had impression are difficult to drive so I attached them to a desktop amplifier: holy the smoke, are amazing!
> What can buy to use the Zax commuting, Kann?


Hidisz Ap80 pro, FiiO X7 MkII and BTR3 do it just fine for me. Probably look for something with 190~250Mw on the single ended, that should do. M11, DX160 and other midrange models are in this range I believe.


----------



## RikudouGoku

RCracer777 said:


> Hidisz Ap80 pro, FiiO X7 MkII and BTR3 do it just fine for me. Probably look for something with 190~250Mw on the single ended, that should do. M11, DX160 and other midrange models are in this range I believe.


I wouldnt recommend spending that much money on a source when the iem itself is quite a lot cheaper.

But if you really want more power, the Ifi Hip-dac is a cheaper option.





280mw with SE and 400mw with balanced (4.4mm).


----------



## RCracer777

RikudouGoku said:


> I wouldnt recommend spending that much money on a source when the iem itself is quite a lot cheaper.


I agree, if you want to do it on a budget a portable AMP is the best option. That said as he mentiond the A&K Kann I gave some examples of way cheaper all in one options that should give the desired result. 

Personally I would recomend someting along the lines of the BTR5 as that thing works wonders for IEM's and when BT is a requirement/wish. But that is down on power compared to the Hip-DAC and more inline with my AP80 Pro in terms of capabilities.


----------



## iFi audio

RikudouGoku said:


> I wouldnt recommend spending that much money on a source when the iem itself is quite a lot cheaper.
> 
> But if you really want more power, the Ifi Hip-dac is a cheaper option.



Yes, it's as affordable and powerful as we could make it, that was the goal.


----------



## IEMusic

I have to be careful how I phrase all of this, b/c this is not meant to be a criticism of the ranking, just additional commentary regarding my personal opinions.  First of all, I personally could never compile such a comprehensive IEM ranking list like Crinacle has done, let alone maintain reasonable consistency, and create a proper distribution of rankings. 

I do think the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX being ranked as a C is perfectly fitting.  I also think that a C ranking for the ZAX is not unreasonable, considering that there are some other MUCH more expensive IEMs, including some that I consider better than the ZAX, also ranked as a C.  My personal opinion, however, is that despite the same ranking, the ZAX is multiple levels superior to the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX technically.   The same ranking is probably largely due to having the same tuning, and the differences in technicalities are mostly perceived if one can take adequate time to compare and contrast, which one doesn’t have if churning through so many IEMs.  Having had the time to directly compare the ZAX to the ZS10 Pro, the speed of the bass, the texture, the resolution, and amount of bass bleed (despite almost identical tuning) is significantly improved.   Overall resolution has taken a step up, as has detail retrieval.   The most noticeable differences to me, however, are the very crisp transients that the ZAX has, and more natural sounding BAs.   While still not as natural sounding as some of the best BAs, let alone great DDs, it is not metallic sounding to me any more.  This doesn‘t diminish the quality and value of the ZS10 Pro/ZSX, but the ZAX really deserves to be differentiated for what it is.

I personally would place the ZAX as a B, or at least a B-.


----------



## CT007

IEMusic said:


> I personally would place the ZAX as A


Ok, ok; you talked me into it.


----------



## courierdriver

IEMusic said:


> I have to be careful how I phrase all of this, b/c this is not meant to be a criticism of the ranking, just additional commentary regarding my personal opinions.  First of all, I personally could never compile such a comprehensive IEM ranking list like Crinacle has done, let alone maintain reasonable consistency, and create a proper distribution of rankings.
> 
> I do think the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX being ranked as a C is perfectly fitting.  I also think that a C ranking for the ZAX is not unreasonable, considering that there are some other MUCH more expensive IEMs, including some that I consider better than the ZAX, also ranked as a C.  My personal opinion, however, is that despite the same ranking, the ZAX is multiple levels superior to the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX technically.   The same ranking is probably largely due to having the same tuning, and the differences in technicalities are mostly perceived if one can take adequate time to compare and contrast, which one doesn’t have if churning through so many IEMs.  Having had the time to directly compare the ZAX to the ZS10 Pro, the speed of the bass, the texture, the resolution, and amount of bass bleed (despite almost identical tuning) is significantly improved.   Overall resolution has taken a step up, as has detail retrieval.   The most noticeable differences to me, however, are the very crisp transients that the ZAX has, and more natural sounding BAs.   While still not as natural sounding as some of the best BAs, let alone great DDs, it is not metallic sounding to me any more.  This doesn‘t diminish the quality and value of the ZS10 Pro/ZSX, but the ZAX really deserves to be differentiated for what it is.
> 
> I personally would place the ZAX as a B, or at least a B-.


Your impressions of the ZAX make me want to buy it; especially since I already hold the ZS10 PRO in high regard. It's one of my favorite, go to iems in my collection. I'd love to try the ZAX. From all I've read so far; it might just dethrone the ZS10 PRO...which would make it an A- to an A for me.


----------



## tgx78

I sent out my ZAX(modded), IER-Z1R and IER-M9 to a fellow headfier for him to try them out. He returned the Z1R and M9 back to me and asked one week extension for the ZAX.


----------



## IEMusic

courierdriver said:


> Your impressions of the ZAX make me want to buy it; especially since I already hold the ZS10 PRO in high regard. It's one of my favorite, go to iems in my collection. I'd love to try the ZAX. From all I've read so far; it might just dethrone the ZS10 PRO...which would make it an A- to an A for me.


The ZAX is definitely something to keep on your radar, perhaps for the next big sale.  FWIW, I personally like the DQ6 and ZAX equally.   I have not been able to pick which one I like more.   They sound different, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, but overall, I like them equally.


----------



## astermk

IEMusic said:


> I have to be careful how I phrase all of this, b/c this is not meant to be a criticism of the ranking, just additional commentary regarding my personal opinions.  First of all, I personally could never compile such a comprehensive IEM ranking list like Crinacle has done, let alone maintain reasonable consistency, and create a proper distribution of rankings.
> 
> I do think the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX being ranked as a C is perfectly fitting.  I also think that a C ranking for the ZAX is not unreasonable, considering that there are some other MUCH more expensive IEMs, including some that I consider better than the ZAX, also ranked as a C.  My personal opinion, however, is that despite the same ranking, the ZAX is multiple levels superior to the ZS10 Pro and the ZSX technically.   The same ranking is probably largely due to having the same tuning, and the differences in technicalities are mostly perceived if one can take adequate time to compare and contrast, which one doesn’t have if churning through so many IEMs.  Having had the time to directly compare the ZAX to the ZS10 Pro, the speed of the bass, the texture, the resolution, and amount of bass bleed (despite almost identical tuning) is significantly improved.   Overall resolution has taken a step up, as has detail retrieval.   The most noticeable differences to me, however, are the very crisp transients that the ZAX has, and more natural sounding BAs.   While still not as natural sounding as some of the best BAs, let alone great DDs, it is not metallic sounding to me any more.  This doesn‘t diminish the quality and value of the ZS10 Pro/ZSX, but the ZAX really deserves to be differentiated for what it is.
> 
> I personally would place the ZAX as a B, or at least a B-.


He can dislike the tuning all he wants, but he's also given the ZAX and ZS10 Pro the same technicalities sub-score (C), which makes me highly question his hearing because everyone who's ever heard the two (I own both and can confirm) can say the ZAX absolutely trounces the ZS10 Pro in that regard.


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 20, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> Your impressions of the ZAX make me want to buy it; especially since I already hold the ZS10 PRO in high regard. It's one of my favorite, go to iems in my collection. I'd love to try the ZAX. From all I've read so far; it might just dethrone the ZS10 PRO...which would make it an A- to an A for me.


I use my ZAX as my go to now and took my ZS10 Pro for work...I still love the ZS10 Pro, but If I could only have one , it would be the ZAX

I would love to hear even better, but for what I use them for these are fantastic.


----------



## whirlwind

Are the cheap bluetooth cables worth adding to the ZAX for tv watching or not worth it and just a PITA .


----------



## TheVortex

whirlwind said:


> Are the cheap bluetooth cables worth adding to the ZAX for tv watching or not worth it and just a PITA .


Possibly and maybe something like this?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000614255847.html


----------



## guido

or this...and you will never listen to them any other way...


----------



## whirlwind (Mar 20, 2021)

TheVortex said:


> Possibly and maybe something like this?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000614255847.html


I am in the USA and can't cope with those ship times....maybe I will try something from amazon

I do not see the one's above on amazon.


----------



## TheVortex (Mar 20, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> I am in the USA and can't cope with those ship times....maybe I will try something from amazon



That's fair enough and I offered an affordable option with low latency and they are a very low cost but the TRN / Fiio adapters are another option.


----------



## forestitalia (Mar 20, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I wouldnt recommend spending that much money on a source when the iem itself is quite a lot cheaper.
> 
> But if you really want more power, the Ifi Hip-dac is a cheaper option.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting little amp, but I prefer avoid two devices. Is the first time my LG G8x shows lack of power with a iem, pity, the bass of the Zax is not well controlled.
I set the ES100 to high voltage with 2.5mm balanced output and is  better, not like an amplifier, I think is about 90mw against 30mw unblanced. I can live with that and there is no annoying cable.


----------



## whirlwind

TheVortex said:


> That's fair enough and I offered and affordable option with low latency and they are a very low cost but the TRN / Fiio adapters are another option.


Yeah, thanks for the option...I don't see much on amazon that interest me for the price and reviews....I am just going to pass for now, probably for the best as I won't be switching cables all the time and risk cracking the connectors.


----------



## IEMusic

astermk said:


> He can dislike the tuning all he wants, but he's also given the ZAX and ZS10 Pro the same technicalities sub-score (C), which makes me highly question his hearing because everyone who's ever heard the two (I own both and can confirm) can say the ZAX absolutely trounces the ZS10 Pro in that regard.


This is exactly why it’s important to not just go by one or two people’s rankings.  It‘s just impossible for one person to listen to THAT many IEMs and HPs and be able to take adequate time to pick out the various strengths and weaknesses, especially if one finds an IEM uninteresting compared to the numerous top tier IEMs available.  Then one has to keep all of them straight, and invariably there will be discrepancies and inconsistencies that arise.   I can’t even reliably rank the IEMs I own.  I think ranking lists are most helpful at the top and bottom of the list.   The middle, where the vast majority lie, gets compressed and poorly differentiated.   This is why my comments weren’t a critique of said list or reviewer, but rather an elaboration on the ZAX.



whirlwind said:


> Are the cheap bluetooth cables worth adding to the ZAX for tv watching or not worth it and just a PITA .


Latency is the most important factor for this.


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMusic said:


> This is exactly why it’s important to not just go by one or two people’s rankings.  It‘s just impossible for one person to listen to THAT many IEMs and HPs and be able to take adequate time to pick out the various strengths and weaknesses, especially if one finds an IEM uninteresting compared to the numerous top tier IEMs available.  Then one has to keep all of them straight, and invariably there will be discrepancies and inconsistencies that arise.   I can’t even reliably rank the IEMs I own.  I think ranking lists are most helpful at the top and bottom of the list.   The middle, where the vast majority lie, gets compressed and poorly differentiated.   This is why my comments weren’t a critique of said list or reviewer, but rather an elaboration on the ZAX.
> 
> 
> Latency is the most important factor for this.


Indeed, I would say that for me. The most difficult ones to rank are the ones below C rank. Because its just not fun listening to them, when you got access to a lot of better iems. It be like, comparing crap to less crap, still crap in the end....


----------



## IEMusic

RikudouGoku said:


> Indeed, I would say that for me. The most difficult ones to rank are the ones below C rank. Because its just not fun listening to them, when you got access to a lot of better iems. It be like, comparing crap to less crap, still crap in the end....


Exactly!! 

My eyes glaze over just scrolling through his list, and only focus on those that I personally find interesting.   Now imagine if I had to critically listen to all of those hundreds of IEMs that I just glossed over, and actually try and rank them.  Regardless of how accurate we may try to be, we are all human, and subject to the influences our own biases, interests, moods, etc.


----------



## 1clearhead

IEMusic said:


> The ZAX is definitely something to keep on your radar, perhaps for the next big sale.  FWIW, *I personally like the DQ6 and ZAX equally.   I have not been able to pick which one I like more.   They sound different, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, but overall, I like them equally.*


That's exactly how I hear the DQ6 and the CSN. I like them both equally even with their strengths and weakness!

The CCA CSN is a must buy for such a cheap price, IMHO!

-Clear


----------



## roylan667

Borrowed KZ ZAX from friend to try with UTWS3 but seems like there is something missing as I felt like DQ6 sounds better. However, ZAX does sounds good with wired. Looking at the specs seems similar in term of sensitivity and impedance so I guess bias might be at work here.

Weird thing is that this DQ6 + UTWS3 combination is even better compared to UTWS3 + Blessing2. Maybe I am using V4A and DD is better with EQ compared to hybrid? My friend also thinks so, and I cant get the same sound from wired ZAX with UTWS3 even with same source (Xiaomi Phone).

So my ranking with this combination is like this:

1) UTWS3 + DQ6 (EQ with Viper4Android) 
2) Wired ZAX (EQ with Viper4Android)
3) Wired ZAX (No EQ)
4) Wired DQ6 / with UTWS3 (No EQ)
5) UTWS3 + ZAX (EQ or not, I cannot get the sounds right even with EQ)


----------



## G777

The more I listen to the DQ6, the more I like it. It's currently my go-to IEM for metal.


----------



## IEMusic

G777 said:


> The more I listen to the DQ6, the more I like it. It's currently my go-to IEM for metal.


It certainly has the chops to keep up with extreme metal.  This is one of those cases where I think price might negatively affect perception.   They DEFINITELY should keep the price as is, but I can’t think of the price when trying to accurately analyze them, b/c it creates a bias that surely it can’t be THAT good.  Well, it is.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Mar 22, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> No need to get zax if you already have ckx imho. They both sound similar with zax having a little bit more splash on the treble but the ckx has a little bit fuller bass. The zax can sound artificial and the extra splash on the treble can be a bit too much on certain tracks while the ckx is more natural sounding imho. Alao the ckx has all metal body vs plastic in the zax.



Thanks for the feedback.

The "extra splash on the treble" is why I think I'll pass on the ZAX, however great it may be. I listen at moderate volumes but sometimes I do like to just....jam and splashy treble would be problematic.

If the CKX is the ZAX without the "extra splash" 
and if the CKX gives slightly more weight to the instrument's notes then the CKX is likely the best fit for a long term in-ear for me. I find little fault with it. 
It does so many things very well.

This is only March but thus far the CKX and DQ6 have been my favorite purchases for 2021.

Zero regrets and they both get tons of use.





CT007 said:


> Was an easy call to send the CKX back. Not as good sounding to me, and too small shell. But still very good sounding, just a little bit behind ZAX IMO. I liked it more than DQ6.





CT007 said:


> I kept ZAX, YBF, ZSN Pro; sent back CKX, DQ6, TC-01, EA1.



I'm not a big fan of the ZSN Pro. The upper midrange and lower treble are far too forward for my tastes. The timbre in that region also sounds off to my ears. I've picked them up a few times for a listen and sometimes I can tolerate it but I'd rather not deal with it since I have better sub-$30 options (DQ6 - $25, SHE3590 - $10, SoundMAGIC E50 - $26, ZS3 - $15, MH755 - $5). As is the case with each of these DD's, I'll accept the trade-off of resolution for more natural tonality. Some of these are more enjoyable than others but they're all more pleasant to my ears than the ZSN Pro.




IEMusic said:


> FWIW, I personally like the DQ6 and ZAX equally.   I have not been able to pick which one I like more.   They sound different, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, but overall, I like them equally.



Pretty much my sentiments with the DQ6 and CKX.
Love how versatile, unobtrusive and engaging both are.




IEMusic said:


> My eyes glaze over just scrolling through his list, and only focus on those that I personally find interesting.   Now imagine if I had to critically listen to all of those hundreds of IEMs that I just glossed over, and actually try and rank them.  Regardless of how accurate we may try to be, we are all human, and subject to the influences our own biases, interests, moods, etc.



I imagine that "the list" is probably useful to a lot of people.

When I consider that the sound can be altered on each IEM (in my own collection) simply by changing the eartips ... well, let's just say that I lose interest in definitive rankings (if they are definitive). A particular eartip may bring the midrange forward on one IEM while another eartip may clean up the midbass on another IEM and the rankings subsequently get reshuffled. This one moves up and that one moves down.

That being said, I suppose people find the general information helpful.
I sometimes scroll through the posted FR graphs seeking info on subbass rolloff or the relationship between subbass and midbass. I've developed a preference for the bass to be linear or to have slightly more subbass than midbass. More midbass than subbass tends to ruin a lot of IEMs for me. Not in every case but more often than not.

I'm not necessarily a die-hard FR graph guy but I do appreciate that he's done the work and makes it accessible to interested hobbyists/enthusiasts like me.




1clearhead said:


> That's exactly how I hear the DQ6 and the CSN. I like them both equally even with their strengths and weakness!
> 
> The CCA CSN is a must buy for such a cheap price, IMHO!



Given that the CSN and DQ6 both have the "XUN" DD, would you characterize the CSN as a DQ6 with improved resolution up top or are they tuned completely differently?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.





G777 said:


> The more I listen to the DQ6, the more I like it. It's currently my go-to IEM for metal.



+1

They're a great listen. I'm never disappointed when I plug them in.
Again, they're quite versatile.




IEMusic said:


> It certainly has the chops to keep up with extreme metal.  This is one of those cases where I think price might negatively affect perception.   They DEFINITELY should keep the price as is, but I can’t think of the price when trying to accurately analyze them, b/c it creates a bias that surely it can’t be THAT good.  Well, it is.



Oddly enough, I haven't used the DQ6 for a metal session yet.
I'll have to remedy that.

Now's as good a time as any.





Yeah, price bias can really do your head in.
Problem is that there are so many variables.

I've determined that, for me, all I care about is whether or not I'll enjoy my catalogue of music with an IEM. I was reminded of this when I pulled out a box that was full of IEMs from 2015. Those ridiculously cheap 2015 Monoprice IEMs ($9) had awful build quality but they do sound better than I remember.




BTW, the DQ6 is sounding like a full-bodied dynamo with the Sony MH755 eartips.


----------



## MacAttack7

Has anyone tested the stock silver-colored cable that KZ and CCA send with all of their IEM's now? 
Besides wanting something slightly thicker wondering if there is any other reason to upgrade.


----------



## Podster

Well being a longtime KZ fan but my last purchase was the Terminators I'm itching to try a new one, seems Clear has me eyeing the DQ6 (for $7.81 I'll probably drop a white EDX in the cart) but which other one should I try? ZAX or ASX (Tough choice as I love both my ZS7's and BA10's)  Are either of these a big step forward or just new designs?


----------



## MacAttack7

Podster said:


> Well being a longtime KZ fan but my last purchase was the Terminators I'm itching to try a new one, seems Clear has me eyeing the DQ6 (for $7.81 I'll probably drop a white EDX in the cart) but which other one should I try? ZAX or ASX (Tough choice as I love both my ZS7's and BA10's)  Are either of these a big step forward or just new designs?


I have an ASX on the way as it popped up on a good sale one day. I already have the ASF which I really like but most seem to hate it. I think a good fit is really important with these unique shells. As long as I use the right tips it pops into my ear like a custom IEM with the top of the shell snapping in below the ridge of my ear, and once it's there it won't move no matter what. I use either the stock tips or the SpinFit wireless tips. If I try to use a tip that's taller, then I lose the custom fit. Maybe that's part of the reason so many people dislike it...they aren't getting a good fit.


----------



## Podster

MacAttack7 said:


> I have an ASX on the way as it popped up on a good sale one day. I already have the ASF which I really like but most seem to hate it. I think a good fit is really important with these unique shells. As long as I use the right tips it pops into my ear like a custom IEM with the top of the shell snapping in below the ridge of my ear, and once it's there it won't move no matter what. I use either the stock tips or the SpinFit wireless tips. If I try to use a tip that's taller, then I lose the custom fit. Maybe that's part of the reason so many people dislike it...they aren't getting a good fit.


Yes, many had the same issues with BA10 but old Shrek ears here had no issue and they are still my fave all BA iem and I have DM6, HQ12's with more drivers but less synergy


----------



## voicemaster

Podster said:


> Well being a longtime KZ fan but my last purchase was the Terminators I'm itching to try a new one, seems Clear has me eyeing the DQ6 (for $7.81 I'll probably drop a white EDX in the cart) but which other one should I try? ZAX or ASX (Tough choice as I love both my ZS7's and BA10's)  Are either of these a big step forward or just new design.


Get Kz DQ6 and CCA CKX imho.


----------



## Podster

voicemaster said:


> Get Kz DQ6 and CCA CKX imho.



One of these days I'm going to have to break that ice, been loyal to the core with KZ vs. CCA!


----------



## Podster (Mar 22, 2021)

However I have gotten better, I remember a time time when I had to have every color a model offered  LOL


----------



## Podster

Then again when doing this you get an additional fun factor where you can switch parts and give them those Tuxedo looks like KZ did with the ZS7's


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Well being a longtime KZ fan but my last purchase was the Terminators I'm itching to try a new one, seems Clear has me eyeing the DQ6 (for $7.81 I'll probably drop a white EDX in the cart) but which other one should I try? ZAX or ASX (Tough choice as I love both my ZS7's and BA10's)  Are either of these a big step forward or just new designs?


I, like you, rate the ZS7 and BA10. The CKX is really good,  I think you will like it, I prefer it to the ZAX as it is cleaner and more neutral with more extended treble and a very natural bass. It is very comfortable and well made. Just throw on some Spiral Dots and perhaps a cable like the Limpid Pro which I'm using and it's very impressive.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> I, like you, rate the ZS7 and BA10. The CKX is really good,  I think you will like it, I prefer it to the ZAX as it is cleaner and more neutral with more extended treble and a very natural bass. It is very comfortable and well made. Just throw on some Spiral Dots and perhaps a cable like the Limpid Pro which I'm using and it's very impressive.



THX Nim, think I do prefer the shell on the CKX to the ZAX and ASX! In the beginning I did not care for the look of many of the CCA's that were going head to head with like KZ's plus I always thought they were being made by or were an offspring of KZ? Never really delved into that part of it that much cause as said the earlier shells did nothing for me and I'm sure if you took a head count I was pretty loyal to KZ  Guess the CKX would be a good first eva CCA


----------



## IEMusic

Podster said:


> Well being a longtime KZ fan but my last purchase was the Terminators I'm itching to try a new one, seems Clear has me eyeing the DQ6 (for $7.81 I'll probably drop a white EDX in the cart) but which other one should I try? ZAX or ASX (Tough choice as I love both my ZS7's and BA10's)  Are either of these a big step forward or just new designs?


I really like the ZAX and the DQ6.   The DQ6 and the CKX also seems like a great combo, though I haven‘t heard the CKX.   I really wanted to like the ASF, but it just sounds muddy to me, with no treble at all.   The fit is fine for me, and I really like the looks.  It doesn’t sound anything like the BA10, though the ASF BAs do sound less metallic, and more natural in timbre comparatively.


----------



## artatgray (Mar 22, 2021)

Podster said:


> ZAX or ASX (Tough choice as I love both my ZS7's and BA10's)



I own both the ZAX and ASX. Of the two, the ZAX is the better out-of-the-box experience in regards to tuning.

The ASX has an absolutely terrible stock tuning with overpowering bass - and I like bass - recessed mids, and the treble is so attenuated as to be particularly nonexistent.

However, when retuned with the settings from the AutoEQ github, the ASX is a completely different IEM from stock and one of my favorites to date. I kid you not... 📱🎧🎶🤘🏾😎🤘🏾

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ASX


----------



## saldsald

The CKX is finally catching up.


----------



## brianforever (Mar 23, 2021)

Anyone would have any idea the dimension of the steel mesh filter, need to buy a replacement as the KZ ZS3E I received is missing it on the left earphone

Edit/ Okay after some micro measurements decided to go for 4mm steel mesh


----------



## mh1c

I thought I’d share this if someone’s interested. The KZ EDX are $0.60 (yes, 60 cents) w/ free shipping on AliExpress. If you’re a new user they give you a $5.40 coupon good for anything. Or you can get the ES4 for like $5.


----------



## 1clearhead

Alpha Whale said:


> > 1clearhead said:
> > That's exactly how I hear the DQ6 and the CSN. I like them both equally even with their strengths and weakness!
> >
> > The CCA CSN is a must buy for such a cheap price, IMHO!
> ...


Resolution is very similar, but what does change is the enhanced technicality the CSN delivers on the very top, plus the extra low sub-bass it provides for any video gamers dream audio experience. The DQ6 does have the brighter midrange of the two giving them extra sizzle on female vocalist, which would make them the brighter of the two. So, finally I would say that the CSN are tuned slightly smoother and detailed, while the DQ6 are slightly brighter and detailed. It's just a matter of preference.

Below is a quick list and idea on where they both fit in better when comparing each other...

Video game audio experience:
CSN would be the better option.

Home video/audio:
DQ6 or CSN are equally fine.

GYM:
DQ6 or CSN are equally fine.

Drum and Bass songs:
CSN would be the better option for deeper rumble.

Most other Genre's:
DQ6 or CSN are equally fine.

Hope this helps!
-Clear


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Mar 23, 2021)

Dear KZ,
I'm ready for DQ6 TWS, oh please! Tooooo many BA or hybrids TWS, it's "just another copy of BA TWS"
It's about time for multi-DD TWS, I'm OK for 2 hrs battery life.  I need a short period of excitement.
Please make DQ6 into "double-bass" 2DD for bass, and keep the rest of DQ6.  Your company can absolutely differentiate the product in the wireless wars.
Best,
One of your fanboys


----------



## povidlo

AmericanSpirit said:


> Dear KZ,
> I'm ready for DQ6 TWS, oh please! Tooooo many BA or hybrids TWS, it's "just another copy of BA TWS"
> It's about time for multi-DD TWS, I'm OK for 2 hrs battery life.  I need a short period of excitement.
> Please make DQ6 into "double-bass" 2DD for bass, and keep the rest of DQ6.  Your company can absolutely differentiate the product in the wireless wars.
> ...


Another option is to attach DQ6 to Fiio UTWS3. I'm getting great synergy with this combo.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Mar 23, 2021)

povidlo said:


> Another option is to attach DQ6 to Fiio UTWS3. I'm getting great synergy with this combo.


I have those BT units for TRN VX, nah I want a sleek look. Just the IEM not tails.


----------



## Podster

AmericanSpirit said:


> I have those BT units for TRN VX, nah I want a sleek look. Just the IEM not tails.



Not me, I need the loops to keep them in/on


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Podster said:


> Not me, I need the loops to keep them in/on


The tail pressures backside of the ear while ide sleeping, so I still prefer IEM only TWS for daily indoor use though, it's a good rig to go out, better battery life, good stability during exercise too.


----------



## pfropfen

AmericanSpirit said:


> I have those BT units for TRN VX, nah I want a sleek look. Just the IEM not tails.


Woah, what kind of mouse is that? Looks wild


----------



## Podster

pfropfen said:


> Woah, what kind of mouse is that? Looks wild


 Gamers got taste I'm digging the whole Darth Maul vibes of that shot myself  Besides everyone knows anything Ferrari Red looks sweet





I myself like combining to get that look as well


----------



## RCracer777

pfropfen said:


> Woah, what kind of mouse is that? Looks wild


MadCatz R.A.T. series. I've been using them for about a decade now. Super adjustable with good ergonomics but fairly large and heavy for a mouse. I like that but some don't


----------



## AmericanSpirit

pfropfen said:


> Woah, what kind of mouse is that? Looks wild


It's this 
https://www.amazon.com/Mad-Catz-T-9-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B009PHSDBM
Mad-Catz-RAT9, I was using for gaming, but then realized this works great for work as it has a horizontal scroll(easy spreadsheet x-axis scrolling).


----------



## pfropfen

RCracer777 said:


> MadCatz R.A.T. series. I've been using them for about a decade now. Super adjustable with good ergonomics but fairly large and heavy for a mouse. I like that but some don't





AmericanSpirit said:


> It's this
> https://www.amazon.com/Mad-Catz-T-9-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B009PHSDBM
> Mad-Catz-RAT9, I was using for gaming, but then realized this works great for work as it has a horizontal scroll(easy spreadsheet x-axis scrolling).


Ah, thanks!


----------



## profusion

I'm getting tomorrow DQ6, do they need burn-in time, and if yes how much?


----------



## Podster

profusion said:


> I'm getting tomorrow DQ6, do they need burn-in time, and if yes how much?



Hmm, three DD's might take some serious time to really open up and display their utmost potential, at least I'm going to do a >200 burn on mine when they arrive


----------



## ChrisOc

Podster said:


> Hmm, three DD's might take some serious time to really open up and display their utmost potential, at least I'm going to do a >200 burn on mine when they arrive


I agree with @Podster DDs need burn-in to give their best.

I have been waiting well over 4 weeks for mine....but when they do arrive, I will not expect them to be at their best without burn-in.

Nothing stops you from listening to them while they burn-in. In other words, listen to them as they change and settle.


----------



## profusion

Thanks, can you give links for easy guides for burn-in, volume level, or apps? I really didn't do it before as I got hybrids so far


----------



## Podster

profusion said:


> Thanks, can you give links for easy guides for burn-in, volume level, or apps? I really didn't do it before as I got hybrids so far



Well even DD's in a hybrid need to stretch and level out, nothing wrong with Chris's method either with the exception it can be a little hard picking up some of the more subtle changes when doing the break-in by fire! I usually listen for an hour or two out the box then put them on something in loop mode or just let my library run on them, when done this way you really hear the changes once you stick them back in. Many are different though as some can have these big changes at 50 hours vs. 200>. Of course you also have the group that feels burn in is just a bunch of Who-Ha  The third scenario is some manufacturers of DD iem's will factory  burn so you may not hear any significant changes Never hurts to give it a go though


----------



## profusion (Mar 25, 2021)

Thanks @Podster, will leave them for the weekend to burn on loop some EDM playlist  and what should be the level 50%?

Hope I will like the DQ6... Coming from c12


----------



## ChrisOc

profusion said:


> Thanks, can you give links for easy guides for burn-in, volume level, or apps? I really didn't do it before as I got hybrids so far


I am not aware of any scientific paper or study on burn-in. Some do not believe in burn-in. I take the view that it is worth doing, so here is what I suggest.

Before you start listen to a track with which you are familiar. Listen to the track carefully to determine how your earphones sound out of the box.

Get music into your new earphones using any music player or streaming App, radio will also do. Some use white noise.

Set your volume at a quarter or one third of the total volume. 

Make sure you have power/sufficient battery power. Once in a while (every 3 hours or so) check that everything is working as intended, including charging batteries. It is also a good time to take an auditory equivalent of a "peek" (a squeek?) ...just to find out if you can detect any improvements or just enjoy them for a few minutes!

Make sure you have your albums/songs playing through from one to the next in your library. Otherwise you may find you deprived yourself of your earphones for nothing, if your music player just stops after the first album or song.

If the manufacturer does not specify how much burn-in they recommend, then burn-in for at least 24 hours, maybe more......there are really no rules but the aim is to allow the drivers to go through their paces for a while, so that they settle to a point where they are not restricted because they are flexed, so that you get the full benefit of your earphones.

After burn-in put the same familiar track you tested (at the outset) back on and check if you notice any difference.

Some say, burn-in goes on for several weeks before the drivers settle, others say it makes no difference.

Just make your own mind up!


----------



## Podster

profusion said:


> Thanks @Podster, will leave them for the weekend to burn on loop some EDM playlist  and what should be the level 50%?
> 
> Hope I will like the DQ6... Coming from c12


Guess it kind of depends on source, 50/60% is a good point of reference however any level of clipping can be counter productive imo! Of course clean power is always the best, I generally like to start my burn listening to a few tracks and then setting the walk away volume


----------



## Nimweth

profusion said:


> Thanks, can you give links for easy guides for burn-in, volume level, or apps? I really didn't do it before as I got hybrids so far


DDs benefit from burn in but BAs are also mechanical devices and similarly  improve after some play time.


----------



## IEMusic (Mar 27, 2021)

profusion said:


> I'm getting tomorrow DQ6, do they need burn-in time, and if yes how much?


IMHO, just enjoy the IEM, and don’t worry much about burn in.  I started listening to them right away.  The bass was a bit muddy and overpowering, and for me, the sound did noticeably improve over time, but I think it settled in really well by 30-50 hrs.  When I wasn’t listening to them, I just hooked them up to an old iPad, put the IEMs in my ears, turned up the volume to a reasonably loud, but tolerable level, (took the IEMs out of my ears,) then just let it play an extremely long playlist.


----------



## chinmie

IEMusic said:


> When I wasn’t listening to them, I just hooked them up to an old iPad, put the IEMs in my ears,



I'm confused


----------



## riodgarp

I found that my dq6 with triflange makes it more pronounce to sibilance, I can hear when the singer saying 's' is heard like 'sss'  is there any warm cable that can tamed it's sibilance?


----------



## voicemaster

I don't do "leave and forget it" burn-in method anymore. I just usually start listening to it. I do have several songs that I always use for "burn-in".


----------



## voicemaster (Mar 25, 2021)

riodgarp said:


> I found that my dq6 with triflange makes it more pronounce to sibilance, I can hear when the singer saying 's' is heard like 'sss'  is there any warm cable that can tamed it's sibilance?


I think the longer stem on triflange tips might be the culprit. And why do you need to use triflange for KZ iem anyway? I always think KZ iems are design as shallow insertion type unlike etymotics. Foam tips might be a better solution with those sibilance than swapping cable imho.


----------



## riodgarp

voicemaster said:


> I think the longer stem on triflange tips might be the culprit. And why do you need to use triflange for KZ iem anyway? I always think KZ iems are design as shallow insertion type unlike etymotics. Foam tips might be a better solution with those sibilance than swapping cable imho.


oh it's because the neighborhood is too noisy for me, and I don't wanna crank up my volume above 1/3 way of full volume which is I should do with shallow insertion iems


----------



## IEMusic

chinmie said:


> I'm confused


I knew my wording would be an issue.  I put them in me ears only to adjust the volume level, so it’s not crazy loud or too soft, I then *take them out of my ears*, put them down, and let the music keep playing for several hours to days.


----------



## 1clearhead

riodgarp said:


> I found that my dq6 with triflange makes it more pronounce to sibilance, I can hear when the singer saying 's' is heard like 'sss'  is there any warm cable that can tamed it's sibilance?


Did you try swapping the cheap ear tips for better aftermarket silicone ear tips? It should play warmer and sweeter!


----------



## cappuchino (Mar 26, 2021)

riodgarp said:


> I found that my dq6 with triflange makes it more pronounce to sibilance, I can hear when the singer saying 's' is heard like 'sss'  is there any warm cable that can tamed it's sibilance?





1clearhead said:


> Did you try swapping the cheap ear tips for better aftermarket silicone ear tips? It should play warmer and sweeter!


The DQ6 is quite the tip-sensitive IEM or maybe it's just very fit-dependent. Some tips would introduce "more" sibilance while others would emphasize bass. I find the MH750 tips which I've read are similar to the Sony Hybrids to work best with them (little to no sibilance, as well). Going one-size-up also helped with achieving better fit though it depends on eartip shape and of course ear anatomy.




Listening to Elephant Gym with the DQ6 is quite an experience. It's very "sweet" and fatigue-free. I keep on loving the bass of the DQ6 more and more each day.


----------



## chinmie

cappuchino said:


> The DQ6 is quite the tip-sensitive IEM or maybe it's just very fit-dependent. Some tips would introduce "more" sibilance while others would emphasize bass. I find the MH750 tips which I've read are similar to the Sony Hybrids to work best with them (little to no sibilance, as well). Going one-size-up also helped with achieving better fit though it depends on eartip shape and of course ear anatomy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i always enjoy listening to this kind of math rock, it's the perfect mix of the simplicity and nice "pop like" catchy hooks with complexity, and uplifting optimism with short burst of aggressive angst


----------



## profusion

cappuchino said:


> The DQ6 is quite the tip-sensitive IEM or maybe it's just very fit-dependent. Some tips would introduce "more" sibilance while others would emphasize bass. I find the MH750 tips which I've read are similar to the Sony Hybrids to work best with them (little to no sibilance, as well). Going one-size-up also helped with achieving better fit though it depends on eartip shape and of course ear anatomy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I got them and out of the box I like them  and as you said changing the tips I noticed what you said. For now, I put the M size from the box, do you know which ones can emphasize bass and to reduce the sibilance? I tried the star-tips from my cca c10/c12 but the bass reduced and switched to the stock M ( I usually use S as bigger introduce bad pressure pain to my ear canal, but these was quite soft and tried M so far ok)


----------



## speedfiend (Mar 26, 2021)

profusion said:


> I got them and out of the box I like them  and as you said changing the tips I noticed what you said. For now, I put the M size from the box, do you know which ones can emphasize bass and to reduce the sibilance? I tried the star-tips from my cca c10/c12 but the bass reduced and switched to the stock M ( I usually use S as bigger introduce bad pressure pain to my ear canal, but these was quite soft and tried M so far ok)


I've had good success with Dunu's stock Grey/Blue tips in getting rid of the sibilance and maintaining a solid bass punch.

Just pulled out my DQ6 and realized I've also cable rolled my set with a silver/copper mix (4 strand silver + 4 strand copper per side) 2.5mm balanced cable.


----------



## cappuchino (Mar 26, 2021)

profusion said:


> I got them and out of the box I like them  and as you said changing the tips I noticed what you said. For now, I put the M size from the box, do you know which ones can emphasize bass and to reduce the sibilance?


The tip that emphasized the bass for me and really toned down the highs are the ones that came with my KP580, though it's not a perfect fit as the DQ6 nozzle is a "picky" one (read: smaller than usual) so it slides off if you aren't careful. Maybe you can try other tips advertised as "bass enhancing" like the 1 USD a pair BGVP A07 or A08 but I haven't bought 'em so I can't give my opinion. Foams would do the job as well but never got into acquiring them due to personal "hygienic" reasons.

I still find the MH750/Sony Hybrid tips to be the best pairing with the DQ6, maintaining the clean bass punch with smoothening the highs a bit, avoiding sibilance (if you're sensitive to treble and for certain tracks, it'll still be present).

Stock Moondrop SSP tips were my previous choice and it fits the nozzle perfectly. But that red just looks good on the DQ6 😉 Here's a quick pic of the DQ6 with MH750 tips (red)








profusion said:


> I tried the star-tips from my cca c10/c12 but the bass reduced and switched to the stock M ( I usually use S as bigger introduce bad pressure pain to my ear canal, but these was quite soft and tried M so far ok)


Yeah, the Starline tips (stock KZ/CCA tips) introduce "harshness" to the DQ6. The stock DQ6 tips, meanwhile, all four pairs (different than Starlines) felt "cheap" for me and was the worse IMO as it just won't create a seal leading to a very bright signature without any bass. They also have too short a stem and are too flimsy which results in a... I don't know the right word to explain it - it's like the nozzle of the IEM is touching your ears (uncomfortable feeling). Very sibilant as well.


----------



## profusion

Yeah, I noticed the broghtness with the stocks and I thought the IEMs are like this.... I'm searching "BGVP A07" in Aliex but no results came up?


----------



## cappuchino

profusion said:


> Yeah, I noticed the broghtness with the stocks and I thought the IEMs are like this.... I'm searching "BGVP A07" in Aliex but no results came up?


I only use Shopee for online purchases. Not sure if it's on Ali... The A07 is the first one from the bottom while the A08 is the third.

Here's an article talking about different tips with the BGVP ones included: https://www.audioreviews.org/guide-to-iem-silicone-eartips/

You might find that one helpful 😁


----------



## profusion

Thanks! @cappuchino


----------



## profusion

I found them  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001452900039.html


----------



## baskingshark

ChrisOc said:


> I am not aware of any scientific paper or study on burn-in. Some do not believe in burn-in. I take the view that it is worth doing, so here is what I suggest.
> 
> Before you start listen to a track with which you are familiar. Listen to the track carefully to determine how your earphones sound out of the box.
> 
> ...



Actually there's a headfier (credit to james444) who showed some measured changes with burn in on the iBasso IT00: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...-enjoy-the-music.934980/page-30#post-15775831


----------



## astermk

baskingshark said:


> Actually there's a headfier (credit to james444) who showed some measured changes with burn in on the iBasso IT00: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...-enjoy-the-music.934980/page-30#post-15775831


"Changes" of like 0.05dB in only very small chunks of the entire audible frequency spectrum (that you have to literally zoom the graph in massively to see them properly) only prove that burn in is 99.99% made up in the brain. I still do a bit of burn in on my stuff out of superstition, though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Actually there's a headfier (credit to james444) who showed some measured changes with burn in on the iBasso IT00: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...-enjoy-the-music.934980/page-30#post-15775831


That amount of change is so small that it is much more likely to be the cause of slight insertion deviations.


----------



## seanwee

ChrisOc said:


> I am not aware of any scientific paper or study on burn-in. Some do not believe in burn-in. I take the view that it is worth doing, so here is what I suggest.
> 
> Before you start listen to a track with which you are familiar. Listen to the track carefully to determine how your earphones sound out of the box.
> 
> ...


I've tried burning in over the years with several pairs of iems, some have no difference, some settle in a few hours and some keep on changing across its lifespan. The shrillness of an iem is what typically get slightly reduced after a few hours of burn in from what i've heard, I've never picked up any noticeable difference in bass tightness with an A/B test though. Bass quantity yes, tightness no.

It really depends on the individual iem, I accidentally found out about the long term burn in one (JVC FXH-30) when i got the same iem for a friend a few years after i got mine and they still sounded like different iems after a few days of burn in but eventually settled in to have the same tone after a few months of use. That said this example is the exception rather than the rule, the rest are 50-50 between small but noticeable improvement to no improvement at all.

Generally I just let a new iem burn in overnight then for the rest of the week when i'm not using it but still listen to it while its burning in. You most likely won't notice it if you don't actively look for it. And if you do notice an improvement, good for you.


----------



## ChrisOc

seanwee said:


> I've tried burning in over the years with several pairs of iems, some have no difference, some settle in a few hours and some keep on changing across its lifespan. The shrillness of an iem is what typically get slightly reduced after a few hours of burn in from what i've heard, I've never picked up any noticeable difference in bass tightness with an A/B test though. Bass quantity yes, tightness no.
> 
> It really depends on the individual iem, I accidentally found out about the long term burn in one (JVC FXH-30) when i got the same iem for a friend a few years after i got mine and they still sounded like different iems after a few days of burn in but eventually settled in to have the same tone after a few months of use. That said this example is the exception rather than the rule, the rest are 50-50 between small but noticeable improvement to no improvement at all.
> 
> Generally I just let a new iem burn in overnight then for the rest of the week when i'm not using it but still listen to it while its burning in. You most likely won't notice it if you don't actively look for it. And if you do notice an improvement, good for you.


We seem to agree on all the points you mentioned. The range is no change to noticeable change. 

In between you have those that sound great, regardless of burn-in and those that sound like cr*p regardless of burn-in.

As @IEMusic previously said, if you have to have to run-in a car to get it to its optimum it is possible thatIEMs may benefit (or words to that effect). That is not to say IEMs and cars are remotely comparable, it is merely a case in point.

It is not even a question of whether or not burn-in is a thing, as @baskingshark linked to measurements made here on head-fi, which indicate something occurred. The point is however imperceptible, if there is a variation between no burn-in and burn-in, there is a measured difference.

My view is, same as yours:

Group 1 - No difference 
Group 2 - Slight difference
Group 3 - Perceptible obvious difference - reference your JVC example.

Having said all the above, I am not a "preacher hobbyist". I sincerely believe "each to his own", we are here to have fun and have temporary and occasional distraction from our daily routines.

It is a hobby....let's enjoy it for what it is!


----------



## profusion (Mar 27, 2021)

Aside from the tips do you upgrade your DQ6 cable?
If yes, is this ok? For example with 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001371857568.html
or
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001747993321.html


----------



## unifutomaki (Mar 27, 2021)

ChrisOc said:


> We seem to agree on all the points you mentioned. The range is no change to noticeable change.
> 
> In between you have those that sound great, regardless of burn-in and those that sound like cr*p regardless of burn-in.
> 
> ...



I would also add that if something is not to your particular subjective tastes and preferences, no amount of burn in is going to save it


----------



## ChrisOc

unifutomaki said:


> I would also add that if something is not to your particular subjective tastes and preferences, no amount of burn in is going to save it


Absolutely.....the benefit (if any) to burn-in, can only be seen as a mild finishing tweak but can neither change fundamentals nor can it rescue, bad tuning, or "wrong" IEMs. I agree entirely.


----------



## baskingshark

ChrisOc said:


> We seem to agree on all the points you mentioned. The range is no change to noticeable change.
> 
> In between you have those that sound great, regardless of burn-in and those that sound like cr*p regardless of burn-in.
> 
> ...



I've seen a few manufacturers claim on product inserts that 100 - 200 hours of burn in is necessary to enjoy the full intended tuning. I kid you not.

The cynical me suspects this is probably a big "get out of jail card" to fool the consumer (who in the event doesn't like the out of box tuning) into burning in their gear until the next hypetrain comes in the mail box. And then the consumer forgets about the original burnt in IEM and goes to open the new shiny toy haha.


----------



## IEMusic

baskingshark said:


> I've seen a few manufacturers claim on product inserts that 100 - 200 hours of burn in is necessary to enjoy the full intended tuning. I kid you not.
> 
> The cynical me suspects this is probably a big "get out of jail card" to fool the consumer (who in the event doesn't like the out of box tuning) into burning in their gear until the next hypetrain comes in the mail box. And then the consumer forgets about the original burnt in IEM and goes to open the new shiny toy haha.


”For best results allow product to burn in for at least 200 hours or the entire duration of the return period of the product, whichever is longer.”


----------



## guido

And why does it necessarily have to sound better after burn-in?

All a bunch of hype and psychoacoustics...


----------



## unifutomaki

Music itself is a psychoacoustic phenomenon


----------



## moisespr123

Wonder if we'll get sometime a ZS7 Pro model. I feel that after trying the ZS10 Pro/AS16/ZSX/ZAX, the ZS7 is the tuning I'm enjoying the most.


----------



## Nimweth

moisespr123 said:


> Wonder if we'll get sometime a ZS7 Pro model. I feel that after trying the ZS10 Pro/AS16/ZSX/ZAX, the ZS7 is the tuning I'm enjoying the most.


+1 for the ZS7


----------



## forestitalia (Mar 29, 2021)

Got my DQ6, really something different. Just as told, they do not have the 'fatigue' as often happens to me with  the multiple (a lot) drivers.
The tips are poor, still looking for the best, sound change noticeably from silicon to foam, not sure yet.


----------



## nxnje

moisespr123 said:


> Wonder if we'll get sometime a ZS7 Pro model. I feel that after trying the ZS10 Pro/AS16/ZSX/ZAX, the ZS7 is the tuning I'm enjoying the most.





Nimweth said:


> +1 for the ZS7


+1
That's the most mature KZ has done in the years among all the ZS"x" series.
ZS10 Pro are good but ZS7 were "different"


----------



## IEMusic

forestitalia said:


> Got my DQ6, really something different. Just as told, they do not have the 'fatigue' as often happens to me with  the multiple (a lot) drivers.
> The tips are poor, still looking for the best, sound change noticeably from silicon to foam, not sure yet.


I really like SpinFit CP360 ear tips with the DQ6.


----------



## MacAttack7

IEMusic said:


> I really like SpinFit CP360 ear tips with the DQ6.


I went with CP100's and they fit my ears perfectly...pretty much a custom fit.

I use the CP360 with my KZ ASF and the CCA CSA though.
They are slightly longer and stiffer than the stock tips which works out just right for me.


----------



## courierdriver

Just bought the ZAX on the Aliexpress sale. Looking forward to getting them, to compare with my favorite ZS10 PRO and also still waiting for the DQ6 to arrive. If the DQ6 and ZAX are to my liking, I might be selling off a bunch of stuff that doesn't get much ear time.


----------



## Jet Black

courierdriver said:


> Just bought the ZAX on the Aliexpress sale. Looking forward to getting them, to compare with my favorite ZS10 PRO and also still waiting for the DQ6 to arrive. If the DQ6 and ZAX are to my liking, I might be selling off a bunch of stuff that doesn't get much ear time.


I'm really waiting for you to review on this as I loved my kz zs10 pro as well. Pls tell us how different kz zax and the DQ6 is compared to the older kz zs10 pro


----------



## courierdriver

Jet Black said:


> I'm really waiting for you to review on this as I loved my kz zs10 pro as well. Pls tell us how different kz zax and the DQ6 is compared to the older kz zs10 pro


I'll be more than happy to post some impressions, but I don't feel I'm skilled enough to do a proper review/ comparison of the three. If I were to do that, I'd need to include the tracks/music/genres and timestamps I'm using to evaluate these iems. To me, that's a sh** ton of effort; that tbh I'm not interested in investing my time in. I'm not a reviewer...I'm just a hifi consumer.


----------



## whitete

Anyone know anything about the CCA CC1 TWS?  Looks interesting but I know battery life will be an issue. I’ve been getting into TWS lately.


----------



## Jet Black

courierdriver said:


> I'll be more than happy to post some impressions, but I don't feel I'm skilled enough to do a proper review/ comparison of the three. If I were to do that, I'd need to include the tracks/music/genres and timestamps I'm using to evaluate these iems. To me, that's a sh** ton of effort; that tbh I'm not interested in investing my time in. I'm not a reviewer...I'm just a hifi consumer.


Well I just want to get your opinion on a consumer standpoint. I just wanted to know which is your top 1 upto 3rd place with those 3 iems.


----------



## deltecdpa

I am using my Zs -10 (non pro) since 1 year and half for jogging, still work fine despite lot of sweat and also some rain (3 or 4 times a week) 
They are lasting longer than some far more expensive sport iem I owned before (Monster victory, V-moda forza, Westone adv) similar sound quality with better, more engaging subbass than V-moda and Westone, on par with Monster (by memory)
Well done Kz! If they give up, I have Zsx for replacement...


----------



## profusion

whitete said:


> Anyone know anything about the CCA CC1 TWS?  Looks interesting but I know battery life will be an issue. I’ve been getting into TWS lately.



Until they do not add aptX I will pass CCA/KZ TWS


----------



## 1clearhead (Mar 31, 2021)

deltecdpa said:


> I am using my Zs -10 (non pro) since 1 year and half for jogging, still work fine despite lot of sweat and also some rain (3 or 4 times a week)
> They are lasting longer than some far more expensive sport iem I owned before (Monster victory, V-moda forza, Westone adv) similar sound quality with better, more engaging subbass than V-moda and Westone, on par with Monster (by memory)
> Well done Kz! If they give up, I have Zsx for replacement...


You should try the CCA CSN. They have excellent sub-bass extension and sounds cleaner and clearer than the ZSX.  ...Plus they are at a killer low price!

NOTE: Try them with copper cables and you'll raise the bar on incredible transparent MID's! Now, they are really hard to beat!

-Clear


----------



## unifutomaki

profusion said:


> Until they do not add aptX I will pass CCA/KZ TWS


The latest KZ TWS (the pale blue one) has finally added aptX, although battery life may remain an issue


----------



## r31ya (Mar 30, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> The latest KZ TWS (the pale blue one) has finally added aptX, although battery life may remain an issue


Its kinda crazy considering SoundPeats, Mpow, and Haylou all have nailed the TWS basics (Aptx, mics, 5.0 bluetooth, 4+hour battery) with somewhat decent audio quality.
But KZ while have comparatively good audio... they somewhat crap at the TWS basics.


----------



## r31ya

1clearhead said:


> You should try the CCA CSN. They have excellent sub-bass extension and sounds cleaner and clearer than the ZSX.  ...Plus they are at a killer low price!
> 
> -Clear


have you tried the new contender, Kbear KS1?
Hows the KZ/CCA duo (DQ6, CSN) against that?


----------



## slex

r31ya said:


> have you tried the new contender, Kbear KS1?
> Hows the KZ/CCA duo (DQ6, CSN) against that?


I have these, well balanced is DQ6, fun is CSN and KS1 is old school warm.😊


----------



## whitete

r31ya said:


> Its kinda crazy considering SoundPeats, Mpow, and Haylou all have nailed the TWS basics (Aptx, mics, 5.0 bluetooth, 4+hour battery) with somewhat decent audio quality.
> But KZ while have comparatively good audio... they somewhat crap at the TWS basics.



i love my Soundpeats Sonic!  I didn’t know TWS could sound so good with great battery life. I just KZ/CCA would figure this out!


----------



## profusion

unifutomaki said:


> The latest KZ TWS (the pale blue one) has finally added aptX, although battery life may remain an issue


How is the sound? Any review?


----------



## unifutomaki

profusion said:


> How is the sound? Any review?


I've not come across any reviews, I think people are still skittish about blind buying KZ TWS sets. Not into wireless at all myself, so I stay out of that segment


----------



## r31ya (Mar 30, 2021)

whitete said:


> i love my Soundpeats Sonic!  I didn’t know TWS could sound so good with great battery life. I just KZ/CCA would figure this out!


Soundpeats release an indiegogo special or something, its called Soundpeats H1.
It's a hybrid TWS with Knowles BA for under $100. Apparently it sounds awesome.

KZ had that ZS10 Pro in TWS form which apparently pretty great. I wonder why don't make something that special again.


----------



## RCracer777

whitete said:


> i love my Soundpeats Sonic!  I didn’t know TWS could sound so good with great battery life. I just KZ/CCA would figure this out!


I like my pair as well. Just how did they make a TWS that has pretty much everything you want except ANC, make it sound that good and do all of that under €45,-



r31ya said:


> Soundpeats release an indiegogo special or something, its called Soundpeats H1.
> It's a hybrid TWS with Knowles BA for under $100. Apparently it sounds awesome.


I'm looking to get that one but am waiting for the retail release.


----------



## profusion

whitete said:


> i love my Soundpeats Sonic!  I didn’t know TWS could sound so good with great battery life. I just KZ/CCA would figure this out!


Do you have link to Soundpeats review?


----------



## RCracer777

I've been loving my time with the DQ6 recently, she has opened up and I'm actually back to the stock tips as I don't have better quality similar type short tips. The comfort is just better with shorter tips than the regular sized ones but better quality ones are definitely needed. I did use the white tips from the KBEAR Lark before but when she opened up she became quite bright with those.



G777 said:


> The more I listen to the DQ6, the more I like it. It's currently my go-to IEM for metal.


After this post I've been throwing all kinds of hard rock and metal at the DQ6 and I'm impressed. While the separation on power metal tracks isn't quite good enough it still gets a passing grade from me. And on the rest... it just knocks it out of the park.
The DQ6 works especially well with my AP80 Pro, it's a slightly warmer than neutral source that works well with most IEMs. It just adds that little bit extra to go from good to great.

This made me use my BA10 again after about a month of not using it out of curiosity what it would do and holy s*th. BA10s sounding that good should be illegal. I can't quite describe it other than that, it just works better on my AP80 Pro than any other source I have.

AP80 Pro+DQ6+metal= great
AP80 Pro+BA10= magic

The AP80 Pro uses twin ESS9218p DACs like the BTR5 which might explain why it works so well with IEMs. Although it uses a slightly different topology.


----------



## whitete

profusion said:


> Do you have link to Soundpeats review?


Here’s the only review I found. I’m not good at reviews so I have to rely on you all! https://www.head-fi.org/threads/goi...e-we-there-yet.861024/page-1820#post-15981811


----------



## fonkepala

Hi everyone. I'm looking for another cable to use with the awesome DQ6. The stock one is tangle-y and gives me a bit of a discomfort due to the earhooks. Can someone recommend me a good cheap cable that fits? One that has no earhooks. I know the Dq6 uses 0.75mm two pin, but am having trouble trying to determine if a certain cable will fit due to the housing on the pins. Does the DQ6 use QDC pins? Can I also use 0.78mm 2 pin cables?

Also, the DQ6 has no Left & Right markings, right? How does one discern which end of the cable should go into which earpiece then? Sorry for the noob question & thanks in advance.


----------



## guido

0,75 and 0,78 are pretty much identical...


----------



## profusion (Mar 30, 2021)

fonkepala said:


> Hi everyone. I'm looking for another cable to use with the awesome DQ6. The stock one is tangle-y and gives me a bit of a discomfort due to the earhooks. Can someone recommend me a good cheap cable that fits? One that has no earhooks. I know the Dq6 uses 0.75mm two pin, but am having trouble trying to determine if a certain cable will fit due to the housing on the pins. Does the DQ6 use QDC pins? Can I also use 0.78mm 2 pin cables?
> 
> Also, the DQ6 has no Left & Right markings, right? How does one discern which end of the cable should go into which earpiece then? Sorry for the noob question & thanks in advance.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001747993321.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001208562098.html

PS. as a rule of mine -  I will not pay more for cable than the IEM itself so these are just ok for my DQ6


----------



## AmericanSpirit

fonkepala said:


> Hi everyone. I'm looking for another cable to use with the awesome DQ6. The stock one is tangle-y and gives me a bit of a discomfort due to the earhooks. Can someone recommend me a good cheap cable that fits? One that has no earhooks. I know the Dq6 uses 0.75mm two pin, but am having trouble trying to determine if a certain cable will fit due to the housing on the pins. Does the DQ6 use QDC pins? Can I also use 0.78mm 2 pin cables?
> 
> Also, the DQ6 has no Left & Right markings, right? How does one discern which end of the cable should go into which earpiece then? Sorry for the noob question & thanks in advance.


I just posted one with KZ’s affiliate company, Tripowin’s Zonie. So far this cable is the most comfortable one I had over my last two decades😂
It’s around $15 with premium finish.
https://www.linsoul.com/products/tripowin-zonie


----------



## r31ya

profusion said:


> Do you have link to Soundpeats review?


if you want non head-fi review
https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-sonic-review



slex said:


> I have these, well balanced is DQ6, fun is CSN and KS1 is old school warm.😊


Hows the vocal quality difference between the trio?


----------



## IEMusic

AmericanSpirit said:


> I just posted one with KZ’s affiliate company, Tripowin’s Zonie. So far this cable is the most comfortable one I had over my last two decades😂
> It’s around $15 with premium finish.
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/tripowin-zonie


That’s my pick as well.


----------



## Mouseman

Jet Black said:


> Well I just want to get your opinion on a consumer standpoint. I just wanted to know which is your top 1 upto 3rd place with those 3 iems.


I have all three. ZAX is my number one by far, but DQ6 is a lot of fun and very enjoyable. It's less detailed than ZAX, but it reminds me of sitting in front of some really good floor speakers. The ZS10 Pro's still fun, but is not even close to the same league as the other two.


----------



## IEMusic

Mouseman said:


> I have all three. ZAX is my number one by far, but DQ6 is a lot of fun and very enjoyable. It's less detailed than ZAX, but it reminds me of sitting in front of some really good floor speakers. The ZS10 Pro's still fun, but is not even close to the same league as the other two.


I agree, except I like the DQ6 a little more than the ZAX.   The ZAX is more technically adept, but I really like the natural sound of the DDs in the DQ6.  There is just something about the tuning and presentation of the DQ6 that I find a bit intoxicating.   This is merely a personal preference though, and I can easily imagine more people preferring the ZAX.


----------



## slex

r31ya said:


> if you want non head-fi review
> https://www.scarbir.com/tws/soundpeats-sonic-review
> 
> 
> Hows the vocal quality difference between the trio?


The vocal or rather Mids, is best of all three.


----------



## courierdriver

Jet Black said:


> Well I just want to get your opinion on a consumer standpoint. I just wanted to know which is your top 1 upto 3rd place with those 3 iems.


I'll definitely do that, once I've got everything in. I'll post impressions on each iem as I get them and have had some time to get to know them. I'll be doing the DQ6 first, as it was ordered in early March. According to tracking info, it has arrived here in Canada but has not yet been received by Canada Post. I'm assuming that it's in Customs in Vancouver...clear across the country from where I live. Once it's been released to Canada Post, it'll still be another 7 business days at least, before I get it.


----------



## courierdriver

AmericanSpirit said:


> I just posted one with KZ’s affiliate company, Tripowin’s Zonie. So far this cable is the most comfortable one I had over my last two decades😂
> It’s around $15 with premium finish.
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/tripowin-zonie


Thank you for this post. I have a spare Zonie in QDC 2.5mm balanced format, currently not in use. I was thinking of using it with the DQ6. Your post helps me with my decision to use it. It's quite a nice cable. I've got one on my Urbanfun ISS014 in mmcx 2.5mm balanced and an identical one that I bought for my second ISS014, which I traded to someone who didn't want the cable. The Zonie will be the first I attach to my DQ6 when it finally arrives.


----------



## fonkepala

guido said:


> 0,75 and 0,78 are pretty much identical...


Is it? I've read somewhere that it can probably be jammed in and is therefore somewhat interchangeable, but it would make the connection loosen after a while. Can't verify, though.



profusion said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001747993321.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001208562098.html
> 
> PS. as a rule of mine -  I will not pay more for cable than the IEM itself so these are just ok for my DQ6





AmericanSpirit said:


> I just posted one with KZ’s affiliate company, Tripowin’s Zonie. So far this cable is the most comfortable one I had over my last two decades😂
> It’s around $15 with premium finish.
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/tripowin-zonie





IEMusic said:


> That’s my pick as well.



Thanks all for your recommendations. I went with the Zonie.


----------



## unifutomaki

fonkepala said:


> Is it? I've read somewhere that it can probably be jammed in and is therefore somewhat interchangeable, but it would make the connection loosen after a while. Can't verify, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We're talking about a 0.03mm difference. The thickness of an average strand of hair is 0.07mm.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 31, 2021)

Heads up, I haven't check pricing for these recently, so IDK if they are a good deal, but they look pretty well discounted:
https://hifigo.com/collections/kz?sort_by=created-descending&view=view-48&grid_list=grid-view


Spoiler: Click for view of KZ items on sale...


----------



## 1clearhead

r31ya said:


> have you tried the new contender, Kbear KS1?
> Hows the KZ/CCA duo (DQ6, CSN) against that?


Sorry. Unfortunately, I don't have the Kbear KS1 to compare both with. So, I'll continue to let other head-fiers here answer that for you.


----------



## whirlwind

Size and fit wise...how does the DQ6 compare to the ZAX ?


----------



## alamnp (Mar 31, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> Sorry. Unfortunately, I don't have the Kbear KS1 to compare both with. So, I'll continue to let other head-fiers here answer that for you.



KS1 wins against both.

Disclaimer: has both.

KS1 sounds very close to ZAX with more polite treble and more enclosed sound stage. It is in between ZAX and ZS10 Pro.

imaging better on ZAX, but by not much.

I was surprised with KS1 for a mere $20 with single DD, it is a tuning well done. Sounds comparable  to BL0N.


----------



## 1clearhead

alamnp said:


> KS1 wins against both.
> 
> Disclaimer: has both.
> 
> ...


I don't understand. Are you the disclaimer? Or, are you writing the outcome for someone else?


----------



## 1clearhead

slex said:


> I have these, well balanced is DQ6, fun is CSN and KS1 is old school warm.😊


Would you actually think that the KS1 is better out of the three? Or, just different and not necessarily better? I'm just curious about what you mean by "old school warm."

...Thanks in advance!

-Clear


----------



## slex

1clearhead said:


> Would you actually think that the KS1 is better out of the three? Or, just different and not necessarily better? I'm just curious about what you mean by "old school warm."
> 
> ...Thanks in advance!
> 
> -Clear


KS1 sounds more analog of the 3.


----------



## cappuchino (Apr 1, 2021)

-deleted-


----------



## 1clearhead

slex said:


> KS1 sounds more analog of the 3.


Great! I understand. Thank you so much.


----------



## 1clearhead

cappuchino said:


> That "old school warm" @slex used to describe the KS1 is accurate, IMO. It's V-shaped like the DQ6, but it just sounds different. There's this "nostalgic" attribute to it. Bass is loose OOTB for me but greatly improved after a few hours of burn-in, having this warm/analogue sound to it. Midrange, if you're used to V-shaped tuning, is right smack in the middle. Definitely influenced by the bass. Treble has enough energy to not classify it as dark-sounding. There's just nothing offensive with the sound, which is mind-blowing if you consider the price it sells for in SEA @ ~11 USD.
> 
> The DQ6 meanwhile has a sub-bass emphasis with enough mid-bass to not sound lean, relatively relaxed upper midrange, and a bit peaky treble (tip-dependent). What stands out is the control across the whole spectrum, particularly in the bass department.
> 
> I don't have the CSN and I don't think I'll be getting them as I'm staying away from ultra-budget hybrids due to the reported incoherency.


Good to know! Thanks!

But, I really think you shouldn't count the CSN out! After owning both the DQ6 and CSN for several weeks now, the CSN is incredibly tuned with better technicality and smoother sounding when compared to the DQ6. Coherency is so well done on the CSN that I actually bought a second pair. They have no noticeable harshness or peaks when compared to the DQ6. That's what baffles me! The DQ6 are incredible at its price point, but the CSN sounds more mature and intriguing for the slight lower asking price. Finally, the CSN sounds really great with the default silver cables, but when you change them for copper cables it outperforms anything in its price bracket, IMHO.

-Clear


----------



## gersomhy (Apr 1, 2021)

I really torn between CSN and KS1. currently have ZSN (non pro) and I enjoy it but I prefer more bass, less treble and no metallic sound. KS1, people said it's boom boom, and I like boom boom. some said it sound analog, and I love vinyl record sound more than digital record. CSN, people said it's not shouty and have reduced upper mid than it's bro DQ6, which what i'm looking for. but CSN have BA, that remind me of my ZSN metallic timbre that I avoid. do CSN have that metallic sound ? I'm really sorry to ask this in here KZ subforum but I only found  this KS1 and CSN talk in here


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 2, 2021)

gersomhy said:


> I really torn between CSN and KS1. currently have ZSN (non pro) and I enjoy it but I prefer more bass, less treble and no metallic sound. KS1, people said it's boom boom, and I like boom boom. some said it sound analog, and I love vinyl record sound more than digital record. CSN, people said it's not shouty and have reduced upper mid than it's bro DQ6, which what i'm looking for. but CSN have BA, that remind me of my ZSN metallic timbre that I avoid. do CSN have that metallic sound ? I'm really sorry to ask this in here KZ subforum but I only found  this KS1 and CSN talk in here


I am one of the first ones to get the CSN, since I'm located directly in China, and I can reassure you that I am VERY IMPRESSED that after buying two CSN's there is no metallic sound, what so ever! They also have a smooth and more natural sound to them when compared to my DQ6, which the DQ6 sometimes peaks at the higher end MID's, which I'm still okay with. Timbre is so good on the CSN that it can be mistaken as only having one DD on each side, since it sounds so natural. Both the DQ6 and CSN benefit from better aftermarket silicone ear tips, but the CSN takes aftermarket ear tips like a champ providing a very impressive natural V-shape signature! The CSN also does very well with detachable copper cables given them a more vividly balanced signature.

I have been in this hobby for many years and I can't remember one IEM sounding so harmonically well done with a single DD + BA like the CSN. They just sound way more expensive than their lower price bracket ones, IMHO.

-Clear


----------



## gersomhy

1clearhead said:


> I am one of the first ones to get the CSN, since I'm located directly in China, and I can reassure you that I am VERY IMPRESSED that after buying two CSN's there is no metallic sound, what so ever! They also have a smooth and more natural sound to them when compared to my DQ6, which sometimes peaks at the higher end MID's, which I'm still okay with. Timbre is so good on the CSN that it can be mistaken as only having one DD on each side, since it sounds so natural. Both the DQ6 and CSN benefit from better aftermarket silicone ear tips, but the CSN takes aftermarket ear tips like a champ providing a very impressive natural V-shape signature! The CSN also does very well with detachable copper cables given them a more vividly balanced signature.
> 
> I have been in this hobby for many years and I can't remember one IEM sounding so harmonically well done with a single DD + BA like the CSN. They just sound way more expensive than their lower price bracket, IMHO.
> 
> -Clear


wow nice work then CCA for magically remove that metallic sound from their BA DD setup and deliver more natural sound than DQ6 triple DD. maybe i'll just get both KS1 and CSN, and switch their cable haha. i have stock ZSN cable and $10 TRN silver plated copper, will they work better than CSN stock or should I get a new one ?


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> I am one of the first ones to get the CSN, since I'm located directly in China, and I can reassure you that I am VERY IMPRESSED that after buying two CSN's there is no metallic sound, what so ever! They also have a smooth and more natural sound to them when compared to my DQ6, which sometimes peaks at the higher end MID's, which I'm still okay with. Timbre is so good on the CSN that it can be mistaken as only having one DD on each side, since it sounds so natural. Both the DQ6 and CSN benefit from better aftermarket silicone ear tips, but the CSN takes aftermarket ear tips like a champ providing a very impressive natural V-shape signature! The CSN also does very well with detachable copper cables given them a more vividly balanced signature.
> 
> I have been in this hobby for many years and I can't remember one IEM sounding so harmonically well done with a single DD + BA like the CSN. They just sound way more expensive than their lower price bracket, IMHO.
> 
> -Clear


I am waiting for mine to arrive from China. It is amazing what a sub $20 IEM can give you nowadays not only in sound department, but also in build quality.


----------



## 1clearhead

gersomhy said:


> wow nice work then CCA for magically remove that metallic sound from their BA DD setup and deliver more natural sound than DQ6 triple DD. maybe i'll just get both KS1 and CSN, and switch their cable haha. i have stock ZSN cable and $10 TRN silver plated copper, will they work better than CSN stock or should I get a new one ?


With the CSN, the silver stock cable works just fine giving them that beautiful and smooth V-shape listening experience, unless you want to acquire thicker ones. But, if you want to know what the CSN are capable of? Try swapping the silver stock cables for copper ones for a more balanced and transparently vivid sounding experience. I can honestly say that the DD and BA in the CSN are harmonically done just right.


----------



## trumpethead

1clearhead said:


> I am one of the first ones to get the CSN, since I'm located directly in China, and I can reassure you that I am VERY IMPRESSED that after buying two CSN's there is no metallic sound, what so ever! They also have a smooth and more natural sound to them when compared to my DQ6, which sometimes peaks at the higher end MID's, which I'm still okay with. Timbre is so good on the CSN that it can be mistaken as only having one DD on each side, since it sounds so natural. Both the DQ6 and CSN benefit from better aftermarket silicone ear tips, but the CSN takes aftermarket ear tips like a champ providing a very impressive natural V-shape signature! The CSN also does very well with detachable copper cables given them a more vividly balanced signature.
> 
> I have been in this hobby for many years and I can't remember one IEM sounding so harmonically well done with a single DD + BA like the CSN. They just sound way more expensive than their lower price bracket, IMHO.
> 
> -Clear



Thanks again Clear, I think, once again you have convinced me to purchase an iem that I had said I wasnt going to get because I thought I didn't need it... I have the DQ6 and I am loving it but your above statements have convinced me that there are certain improvements that the CSN has over the DQ6.. You have been on point with your recs and there is no reason to think differently on this one.. Gonna buy CSN today but have to find a way to not read your comments for the sake of my wallet..lol.. All jokes aside Thanks again and Happy Listening!!


----------



## Jitu13

I also ordered csn, will also be ordering heart mirror in a day or two. Just wondering whether I should add kbear ks1 or kz dq6 with it or not.


----------



## slex

1clearhead said:


> I am one of the first ones to get the CSN, since I'm located directly in China, and I can reassure you that I am VERY IMPRESSED that after buying two CSN's there is no metallic sound, what so ever! They also have a smooth and more natural sound to them when compared to my DQ6, which sometimes peaks at the higher end MID's, which I'm still okay with. Timbre is so good on the CSN that it can be mistaken as only having one DD on each side, since it sounds so natural. Both the DQ6 and CSN benefit from better aftermarket silicone ear tips, but the CSN takes aftermarket ear tips like a champ providing a very impressive natural V-shape signature! The CSN also does very well with detachable copper cables given them a more vividly balanced signature.
> 
> I have been in this hobby for many years and I can't remember one IEM sounding so harmonically well done with a single DD + BA like the CSN. They just sound way more expensive than their lower price bracket, IMHO.
> 
> -Clear


If you are in China, go demo the UM 2HT ( 1DD 1BA).😊


----------



## 1clearhead

Jitu13 said:


> I also ordered csn, will also be ordering heart mirror in a day or two. Just wondering whether I should add kbear ks1 or kz dq6 with it or not.


If you sometimes have the urge to hear brighter MID's and awesome bass similar to the CSN, then the KZ DQ6 should be on your bucket list. I actually like to switch between the DQ6 and the CSN just for kicks. The KZ DQ6 is the brightly clear brother, while the CCA CSN is the technically warmer sister. They are different enough to own both.

PS. I am strongly considering getting the KBEAR KS1 only if they really compete, or at least have enough similarities with the BLON BL03.

-Clear


----------



## alamnp

1clearhead said:


> I don't understand. Are you the disclaimer? Or, are you writing the outcome for someone else?


I have both contender and also KS1


----------



## alamnp

1clearhead said:


> If you sometimes have the urge to hear brighter MID's and awesome bass similar to the CSN, then the KZ DQ6 should be on your bucket list. I actually like to switch between the DQ6 and the CSN just for kicks. The KZ DQ6 is the brightly clear brother, while the CCA CSN is the technically warmer sister. They are different enough to own both.
> 
> PS. I am strongly considering getting the KBEAR KS1 only if they really compete, or at least have enough similarities with the BLON BL03.
> 
> -Clear


I would suggest to buy KS1 from amazon store, worst case possible if you don’t like it, you could refund the KS1 without problem


----------



## courierdriver

fonkepala said:


> Is it? I've read somewhere that it can probably be jammed in and is therefore somewhat interchangeable, but it would make the connection loosen after a while. Can't verify, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just got my DQ6. After unboxing, immediately put my balanced Zonie cable on it. Listened to it for about 2 minutes to make sure both sides were working; then plugged into the balanced output of my Fiio Q1MK2, which is connected to my computer via USB. Running 3+ days worth of FLAC and WMA/WAV music to burn them in. I'll probably post some impressions on Saturday or Sunday, once I've had some post burn in time with them.


----------



## pfloyd

alamnp said:


> I would suggest to buy KS1 from amazon store, worst case possible if you don’t like it, you could refund the KS1 without problem


I have one coming from Amazon for 19.99 plus 40% off coupon momentary offer, drop to 15% after that, but keep checking as it fluctuates often.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 2, 2021)

alamnp said:


> I would suggest to buy KS1 from amazon store, worst case possible if you don’t like it, you could refund the KS1 without problem


I can get it directly from KBEAR for a fair and honest review, if I have the time. Thank you.


----------



## gleanfont

I heard KBEAR is on Anniversary sale soon. Up to 70% off, right time to purchase


----------



## r31ya

Still deciding whether to buy KBear KS1 to scratch that itch, or downright pull the trigger to skip CCA CKX and get that Crowd Preorder for Moondrop Aria.


----------



## voicemaster

r31ya said:


> Still deciding whether to buy KBear KS1 to scratch that itch, or downright pull the trigger to skip CCA CKX and get that Crowd Preorder for Moondrop Aria.


Get em all bro!


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 2, 2021)

trumpethead said:


> Thanks again Clear, I think, once again you have convinced me to purchase an iem that I had said I wasnt going to get because I thought I didn't need it... I have the DQ6 and I am loving it but your above statements have convinced me that there are certain improvements that the CSN has over the DQ6.. You have been on point with your recs and there is no reason to think differently on this one.. Gonna buy CSN today but have to find a way to not read your comments for the sake of my wallet..lol.. All jokes aside Thanks again and Happy Listening!!


Yea, all I can say is that CCA got it right with the CCA CSN.

Silver cables:
Video game time, movie time, or just at the gym, go with the silver cables.

Copper cables:
Music, monitoring, or just want to go to cloud 9, go with the copper cables.

PS. Just make sure to get rid of those dreaded default ear tips for some new silicone aftermarket ear tips!

Enjoy!


----------



## courierdriver

I'm kinda breaking my own rules here. I like to burn my iems in, for at least 100 hours. Burned the DQ6 in for 24 hours now but my impatience made me want to try them out in my own real world set up. My first impressions are: these sound awesome! The best way i can describe it is...it sounds like good Analog. Like listening to vinyl. Good body, warmer overtones, less analytical. Not neutral at all. But still with excellent drive and details that are there; but NOT glaringly in your face. Again, these are just first impressions. So far though...I'm really enjoying this set alot!


----------



## pixelwizard

1clearhead said:


> Yea, all I can say is that CCA got it right with the CCA CSN.
> 
> Silver cables:
> Video game time, movie time, or just at the gym, go with the silver cables.
> ...


I ordered the CSN, I believe this will be a nice upgrade over my EDX. Btw how does the CSN compare to something like the V90 to your ears? I seriously can't wait to try em out..


----------



## alamnp

gleanfont said:


> I heard KBEAR is on Anniversary sale soon. Up to 70% off, right time to purchase



nice... waiting for Starlight. But again I have LZ A7 coming from Aliexpress 11th anniv for $260, can't wait


----------



## Brave Heart

I found the ZSX in Purple on Amazon UK for £34.99, which is rather curiously quite a bit cheaper than the other colours.
I was tempted by the ZS10 Pro but the lower price for the purple model  ZSX swung me in favour of the it. Was this a good choice?


----------



## Sebulr

Brave Heart said:


> I found the ZSX in Purple on Amazon UK for £34.99, which is rather curiously quite a bit cheaper than the other colours.
> I was tempted by the ZS10 Pro but the lower price for the purple model  ZSX swung me in favour of the it. Was this a good choice?


Yes, I've got one of those, from amazon at that price. They are a steal. The upper treble is slightly less metallic than the zs10 pro. I think my zs10 pro glare blue look better though. I put a tripowin zonie type c cable on mine and it is fantastic, really thick and soft. Might buy another one for my zs10 pro


----------



## Brave Heart

Sebulr said:


> Yes, I've got one of those, from amazon at that price. They are a steal. The upper treble is slightly less metallic than the zs10 pro. I think my zs10 pro glare blue look better though. I put a tripowin zonie type c cable on mine and it is fantastic, really thick and soft. Might buy another one for my zs10 pro


I did think that the ZS10 Pro looked better, but from various reviews I read that the ZSX is an improvement over the ZS10 Pro in all other aspects. 
Btw does the ZSX use QDC or two pin?


----------



## RCracer777

Brave Heart said:


> I did think that the ZS10 Pro looked better, but from various reviews I read that the ZSX is an improvement over the ZS10 Pro in all other aspects.
> Btw does the ZSX use QDC or two pin?


The ZSX is a step up from the ZS10 Pro in sound but it has a slightly bigger shell wich can be uncomfortable for some. But you get used to it very quickly.

It uses a QDC connector, got a tripowin C8 QDC-2.5mm cable on mine. But 2 pin can work.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 3, 2021)

pixelwizard said:


> I ordered the CSN, I believe this will be a nice upgrade over my EDX. Btw how does the CSN compare to something like the V90 to your ears? I seriously can't wait to try em out..


Good question! So, I got curious and just got finish comparing both the CSN -vs- DQ6 -vs- V90 for about 2 hours. Here are the results...!

Best sounding Bass and lower Sub-bass:
CSN  DQ6 *=* V90

Best natural sounding MID's:
CSN  DQ6  V90

Best extended Treble with clean micro-details:
CSN  DQ6 *=* V90

Soundstage:
CSN  DQ6  V90

Smooth (not bright):
CSN  V90  DQ6

Resolution:
CSN  DQ6  V90

Bright (not smooth):
DQ6  V90  CSN

Best harmonically tuned:
CSN  DQ6  V90

Most Mature Sounding:
CSN  DQ6  V90

Most Engaging and Addictive:
CSN *=* DQ6  V90

Hope this helps...

PS. Have you tried the EDX with silver cables? You should really try it!!!

-Clear


----------



## chinmie

Brave Heart said:


> I did think that the ZS10 Pro looked better, but from various reviews I read that the ZSX is an improvement over the ZS10 Pro in all other aspects.
> Btw does the ZSX use QDC or two pin?


 i had both, and i prefer the ZS10 Pro than the ZSX. so improvement might be a subjective thing


----------



## r31ya

1clearhead said:


> Good question! So, I got curious and just got finish comparing both the CSN -vs- DQ6 -vs- V90 for about 2 hours. Here are the results...!
> 
> Best sounding Bass and lower Sub-bass:
> CSN  DQ6 *=* V90
> ...


love the fact that the new KZ/CCA duo able to slay ZS10pro/C10 rival with lower price point.
The remaining strong contender from TRN is the high res but bassless _*TRN BA5 *_and the new knowles powered *TRN TA1*.
Tough KBear also throw decent contender with *KBEAR KS1 *with its analog sound and scalability.


----------



## InvisibleInk

r31ya said:


> love the fact that the new KZ/CCA duo able to slay ZS10pro/C10 rival with lower price point.
> The remaining strong contender from TRN is the high res but bassless _*TRN BA5 *_and the new knowles powered *TRN TA1*.
> Tough KBear also throw decent contender with *KBEAR KS1 *with its analog sound and scalability.


I don't think TRN has dones much of anything right since the v90. TRN, as a brand, has seemingly dropped off a cliff, similar to how the TA1's treble drops off a cliff above 10K.

I love KBear cables, so I think their IEMs are probably worth a look.

It's probably too soon to ask KZ to offer improved versions of the ZAX and CCA CA16, which are both marvelous. Standing pat with those until true successors that best them arrive on the scene.


----------



## G777 (Apr 4, 2021)

InvisibleInk said:


> I don't think TRN has dones much of anything right since the v90. TRN, as a brand, has seemingly dropped off a cliff, similar to how the TA1's treble drops off a cliff above 10K.
> 
> I love KBear cables, so I think their IEMs are probably worth a look.
> 
> It's probably too soon to ask KZ to offer improved versions of the ZAX and CCA CA16, which are both marvelous. Standing pat with those until true successors that best them arrive on the scene.


I quite enjoy the TA1. I alternate between the TA1 and the DQ6 as my main IEMs; the DQ6 for when I want something fun and the TA1 for everything else.

The TA1 is the best fitting IEM in my collection (I have tiny ears), and they've probably logged the most time in my ears since I got them.


----------



## unifutomaki

InvisibleInk said:


> I don't think TRN has dones much of anything right since the v90. TRN, as a brand, has seemingly dropped off a cliff, similar to how the TA1's treble drops off a cliff above 10K.
> 
> I love KBear cables, so I think their IEMs are probably worth a look.
> 
> It's probably too soon to ask KZ to offer improved versions of the ZAX and CCA CA16, which are both marvelous. Standing pat with those until true successors that best them arrive on the scene.



The TA1 is literally my favourite IEM of 2021 so far and I’ve not felt the need to listen to any of my other IEMs since receiving the TA1. I don’t know how much treble you’re expecting to hear exactly but the TA1 is not dark-sounding by any means. Unless you’re basing these impressions off of how a graph looks, in which case, okay.


----------



## RCracer777

unifutomaki said:


> The TA1 is literally my favourite IEM of 2021 so far and I’ve not felt the need to listen to any of my other IEMs since receiving the TA1. I don’t know how much treble you’re expecting to hear exactly but the TA1 is not dark-sounding by any means. Unless you’re basing these impressions off of how a graph looks, in which case, okay.


I've been interested in the TA1 since I saw them but am finding conflicting reviews. Seeing as we have a somewhat similar taste in IEMs would you recommend getting one or skipping it?


----------



## unifutomaki

RCracer777 said:


> I've been interested in the TA1 since I saw them but am finding conflicting reviews. Seeing as we have a somewhat similar taste in IEMs would you recommend getting one or skipping it?


I would go for it for sure. It is not a giant killer and it might not be the most technical, resolving, monitoring IEM, but no other set in my collection is, to my mind, as musical and as engaging as they are. It errs on the side of warmth and richness in its tuning, but the midbass is very well-controlled and doesn't sound boomy or veiled, there's sufficient detail and sparkle that it doesn't come across as overly dark, and what you end up with is an IEM that's easy to live with and listen to on an everyday basis without feeling fatigued. 

It's forced me to reconsider whether I even like neutral-bright sound profiles like what the SSR offers anymore. Maybe I actually prefer being carried away in the music, and spontaneously breaking into head-banging and feet-tapping, over hearing every single detail there is to hear in a cold and flat manner.


----------



## trumpethead

unifutomaki said:


> I would go for it for sure. It is not a giant killer and it might not be the most technical, resolving, monitoring IEM, but no other set in my collection is, to my mind, as musical and as engaging as they are. It errs on the side of warmth and richness in its tuning, but the midbass is very well-controlled and doesn't sound boomy or veiled, there's sufficient detail and sparkle that it doesn't come across as overly dark, and what you end up with is an IEM that's easy to live with and listen to on an everyday basis without feeling fatigued.
> 
> It's forced me to reconsider whether I even like neutral-bright sound profiles like what the SSR offers anymore. Maybe I actually prefer being carried away in the music, and spontaneously breaking into head-banging and feet-tapping, over hearing every single detail there is to hear in a cold and flat manner.



I Really like them too....


----------



## InvisibleInk (Apr 4, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> The TA1 is literally my favourite IEM of 2021 so far and I’ve not felt the need to listen to any of my other IEMs since receiving the TA1. I don’t know how much treble you’re expecting to hear exactly but the TA1 is not dark-sounding by any means. *Unless you’re basing these impressions off of how a graph looks, in which case, okay.*


Graphs are useful, don't you agree? But I also having the opinions of reviewers I trust, some of whom have demonstrated conclusively on screen using software by isolating what you would hear from musical instruments in the 10K+ frequencies. These results are not pretty. If you can't hear this yourself, you might not notice the problem and find these IEMs to "not be dark-sounding by any means." But some of us, however, rely on the research and demonstrations of reviewers we trust, and not just anyone's enthusiastic endorsements we read on Head-Fi. Happy Holiday!


----------



## r31ya

With KZ ZAX, CKX, CA16, CS16 enroaching the higher price segment. Now, we somehow got what apparently be a Moondrop take on KZ tuning (Chifi-V)



The price difference between CKX and Aria is just aroud $15 in my place. So this seems interesting.


----------



## alamnp

unifutomaki said:


> I would go for it for sure. It is not a giant killer and it might not be the most technical, resolving, monitoring IEM, but no other set in my collection is, to my mind, as musical and as engaging as they are. It errs on the side of warmth and richness in its tuning, but the midbass is very well-controlled and doesn't sound boomy or veiled, there's sufficient detail and sparkle that it doesn't come across as overly dark, and what you end up with is an IEM that's easy to live with and listen to on an everyday basis without feeling fatigued.
> 
> It's forced me to reconsider whether I even like neutral-bright sound profiles like what the SSR offers anymore. Maybe I actually prefer being carried away in the music, and spontaneously breaking into head-banging and feet-tapping, over hearing every single detail there is to hear in a cold and flat manner.



I was tempted, but got burned twice with TRN Ali store... will not touch with a ten foot pole. Will probably try that once they have it on Amazon.


----------



## alamnp

1clearhead said:


> Good question! So, I got curious and just got finish comparing both the CSN -vs- DQ6 -vs- V90 for about 2 hours. Here are the results...!
> 
> Best sounding Bass and lower Sub-bass:
> CSN  DQ6 *=* V90
> ...


Wow, so CSN is the best despite being the cheapest?

It must be the trend now, given so many cheap IEMs recently blowing their tiers.


----------



## r31ya

alamnp said:


> I was tempted, but got burned twice with TRN Ali store... will not touch with a ten foot pole. Will probably try that once they have it on Amazon.


Havent bought TRN IEM but have bought TRN cable (16 core!) and its not that good. I switch to **** cable which have better sound before moving to KBear balanced cable.
Tempted to find Faaeal litz cable next


----------



## G777

r31ya said:


> With KZ ZAX, CKX, CA16, CS16 enroaching the higher price segment. Now, we somehow got what apparently be a Moondrop take on KZ tuning (Chifi-V)
> 
> 
> 
> The price difference between CKX and Aria is just aroud $15 in my place. So this seems interesting.



There seems to be relatively large variance between the few reviews/impressions of the Aria. Maybe it's due to unit variant or fit.

Mine should be arriving in a couple of weeks, but I doubt it would have a KZ-style tuning à la the DQ6.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 4, 2021)

alamnp said:


> Wow, so CSN is the best despite being the cheapest?
> 
> It must be the trend now, given so many cheap IEMs recently blowing their tiers.


Right now, I am using them amped and Wow! The bass just blows me away while it maintains a healthy and clear sonic accuracy and detailed transparency! These are not suppose to sound like this at their asking price!...Just unheard of!!!


----------



## Brave Heart

RCracer777 said:


> The ZSX is a step up from the ZS10 Pro in sound but it has a slightly bigger shell wich can be uncomfortable for some. But you get used to it very quickly.
> 
> It uses a QDC connector, got a tripowin C8 QDC-2.5mm cable on mine. But 2 pin can work.


I ordered a tripowin 3.5mm QDC cable to go with my ZSX. I've used their cables before with various other IEMS and they are pretty good (apart from smelling like a bonfire out the box for some reason!).
I recieved them over an hour ago, took them out the box, attached my tripowin cable and put them in my ears.
I'd read complaints about the fit being worse than the ZS10 Pro and being uncomfortable due to the larger shell. With the large startips attached, these fit my ears like a glove - almost as if they had been designed specifically for my ears.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Brave Heart said:


> these fit my ears like a glove - almost as if they had been designed specifically for my ears.


Then you have struck gold! Enjoy


----------



## RCracer777

unifutomaki said:


> I would go for it for sure. It is not a giant killer and it might not be the most technical, resolving, monitoring IEM, but no other set in my collection is, to my mind, as musical and as engaging as they are. It errs on the side of warmth and richness in its tuning, but the midbass is very well-controlled and doesn't sound boomy or veiled, there's sufficient detail and sparkle that it doesn't come across as overly dark, and what you end up with is an IEM that's easy to live with and listen to on an everyday basis without feeling fatigued.
> 
> It's forced me to reconsider whether I even like neutral-bright sound profiles like what the SSR offers anymore. Maybe I actually prefer being carried away in the music, and spontaneously breaking into head-banging and feet-tapping, over hearing every single detail there is to hear in a cold and flat manner.


Thanks for the info! I'll probably get one, but not right now. Want to wait for a bit and enjoy what I have before getting anything new.



InvisibleInk said:


> But I also having the opinions of reviewers I trust, some of whom have demonstrated conclusively on screen using software by isolating what you would hear from musical instruments in the 10K+ frequencies. These results are not pretty.


I've seen that BGGAR video as well. And while there is no denying that the 5k~11k is quite a gap to have in the frequency response, he does make it out to be way worse than I think it is. The instruments in that section aren't gone like he seems to suggest, just a lot quieter in the overall presentation. Yes, this is one of those reviews that made me question whether or not I should get the TA1. But at the same time others love their pairs.

I'm never one to go on a frequency graph alone, it doesn't tell the full story. And depending on the measuring device used it can be inaccurate/unreliable from 8~10k onwards (something to do with resonance I believe. More common older equipment). Even then without stating the measuring device and the standard/methodology used it doesn't mean much. I'm not bashing BGGAR or Crinacle here, I know they like most respectable reviewers use good equipment and do state their methodology but there are some that don't.

Neither am I bashing you or anyone here either. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and discussing those opinions is a important part of this hobby. That others don't have the same opinion as you do on something doesn't mean they're a bad person (or as some make it out to be "the worst scum of the earth"). Ignoring graphs and other measurements for whatever reason is not a smart thing to do, but at the same time blind adherence to them isn't good either. To me it's just one of many tools to use in making a decision on what to get. Subjectivist, objectivist or stuck in the middle doesn't matter as long as you treat each other with respect.

If everyone agreed on on everything, life would get really boring real quick...


----------



## RCracer777

Brave Heart said:


> I ordered a tripowin 3.5mm QDC cable to go with my ZSX. I've used their cables before with various other IEMS and they are pretty good (apart from smelling like a bonfire out the box for some reason!).
> I recieved them over an hour ago, took them out the box, attached my tripowin cable and put them in my ears.
> I'd read complaints about the fit being worse than the ZS10 Pro and being uncomfortable due to the larger shell. With the large startips attached, these fit my ears like a glove - almost as if they had been designed specifically for my ears.


Nice, enjoy them for as long as you can


----------



## InvisibleInk

RCracer777 said:


> Neither am I bashing you or anyone here either. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and discussing those opinions is a important part of this hobby. That others don't have the same opinion as you do on something doesn't mean they're a bad person (or as some make it out to be "the worst scum of the earth"). Ignoring graphs and other measurements for whatever reason is not a smart thing to do, but at the same time blind adherence to them isn't good either. To me it's just one of many tools to use in making a decision on what to get. Subjectivist, objectivist or stuck in the middle doesn't matter as long as you treat each other with respect.
> 
> If everyone agreed on on everything, life would get really boring real quick...



I followed your logic and agreed with most of it, up until the closing paragraphs above. I didn't see the need for any of that based on anything that we have been posting about. It seems to be extrapolating stuff about stuff that hasn't been written about or stated, and reads like you are trying to head off some sort of flame war that I don't see brewing at all.


----------



## RCracer777

InvisibleInk said:


> I followed your logic and agreed with most of it, up until the closing paragraphs above. I didn't see the need for any of that based on anything that we have been posting about. It seems to be extrapolating stuff about stuff that hasn't been written about or stated, and reads like you are trying to head off some sort of flame war that I don't see brewing at all.


It is related but indeed not necessarily needed. It's my own opinion on the discussions that usually follow these product reviews.
I'm never intending to start a flame war. Don't like them, don't want them. It might have read like that but that's not what I intended and for that I'm sorry. 
While I'm good at English, not being a native speaker can hinder me at times. As a Dutch guy I'm just used to speaking my mind , but I know that it can come over as rude at times.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

@1clearhead would you say that CSN is ZSN 2.0 on true sense? Considering it's P2P ratio and sonic capabilities?


----------



## 1clearhead

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> @1clearhead would you say that CSN is ZSN 2.0 on true sense? Considering it's P2P ratio and sonic capabilities?


I have the ZSN and ZSN PRO and they don't come even close to the sonic and clean technicalities of the lower sub-bass, midrange, and treble the CSN can dish out. The one that comes closest to the CSN is the DQ6, IMHO. They have a lot of similarities in sound, though trading off the upper frequency where the CSN has a BA for awesome hi-end technicalities and the DQ6 provides a bright upper range coming from a DD setup.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

1clearhead said:


> I have the ZSN and ZSN PRO and they don't come even close to the sonic and clean technicalities of the lower sub-bass, midrange, and treble the CSN can dish out. The one that comes closest to the CSN is the DQ6, IMHO. They have a lot of similarities in sound, though trading off the upper frequency where the CSN has a BA for awesome hi-end technicalities and the DQ6 provides a bright upper range coming from a DD setup.


And here I thought I can take a break from IEMs spending this year😂 will try them out balanced out via F2 and BTR5


----------



## r31ya (Apr 4, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> I have the ZSN and ZSN PRO and they don't come even close to the sonic and clean technicalities of the lower sub-bass, midrange, and treble the CSN can dish out. The one that comes closest to the CSN is the DQ6, IMHO. They have a lot of similarities in sound, though trading off the upper frequency where the CSN has a BA for awesome hi-end technicalities and the DQ6 provides a bright upper range coming from a DD setup.


I know the CCA team have better grasp on BA driver, but it seems they manage to one up KZ team on managing the new Xun Dynamic driver.
Bass quality is the one drive me off ZS10 Pro (a bit flat and textureless, impression mostly due to A-B-ing it with TFZ King who are twice the price of ZS10 Pro in the store)  
and is the one drags me to praise DQ6.

problem now is CCA CSN still not sold in my place despite i got DQ6 before any impression review comes out. Cmon KZ official stores, dish it out.


----------



## 1clearhead

r31ya said:


> I know the CCA team have better grasp on BA driver, but it seems they manage to one up KZ team on managing the new Xun Dynamic driver.
> Bass quality is the one drive me off ZS10 Pro (a bit flat and textureless, impression mostly due to A-B-ing it with TFZ King who are twice the price of ZS10 Pro in the store)
> and is the one drags me to praise DQ6.
> 
> problem now is CCA CSN still not sold in my place despite i got DQ6 before any impression review comes out. Cmon KZ official stores, dish it out.


Sometimes they have official stores that sell both KZ and CCA together, since they are a brother and sister company. So, you can not find any CCA products online to ship to your country? How about from Aliexpress.com?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 5, 2021)

I blocked KZ out of my life over the past year or so (got rid of 15 of them)  but after buying the EDX and listening to it on a 2 core cable from a banned seller I'm back in KZ-Land!

They tried harder than their best and it landed perfectly!

The only bad part is they need to ship it without a cable. It's a waste of money producing a cable that makes it sound worse.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I blocked KZ out of my life over the past year or so (got rid of 15 of them)  but after buying the EDX and listening to it on a 2 core cable from a banned seller I'm back in KZ-Land!
> 
> They tried harder than their best and it landed perfectly!
> 
> The only bad part is they need to ship it without a cable. It's a waste of money producing a cable that makes it sound worse.


KZ should have two options where users can opt to purchase only earheads. Tennmak does this and it's indeed a great policy. No need to forcefully give mediocre cables. It will also drive their costs down.


----------



## fonkepala

Enjoying my DQ6 currently with Azla Xelastec tips. Very good sounding combo.


----------



## cappuchino

fonkepala said:


> Enjoying my DQ6 currently with Azla Xelastec tips. Very good sounding combo.


The only "bad" thing is that the nozzle is so choosy with what fits it. I wanted to try the stock tips of the BQEYZ Summer with the KZ DQ6 to hear the effect but the tips just keep sliding off.


----------



## dw1narso

I decided to get CCA CSN..
The silver-blue one, cause I feel it will sound better than the gray one..  
 :
 :
 :
silver-blue looks good on the picture.. (Hopefully in live it really looks that good  )
looks good --> feel good..
feel good --> sound good... 🙃


----------



## r31ya

1clearhead said:


> Sometimes they have official stores that sell both KZ and CCA together, since they are a brother and sister company. So, you can not find any CCA products online to ship to your country? How about from Aliexpress.com?


We have KZ official store who also sell CCA stuff.
its just while KZ-iems will be quickly available, CCA usually have a bit of a lag before the iems become available in my place.

Ali express took 2 month to arrive nowadays due to covid and all.
Hopefully CSN already available within the end of the month or early next month.

I miss my DQ6, i know i bought it for a gift but damn.


----------



## IEMusic

cappuchino said:


> The only "bad" thing is that the nozzle is so choosy with what fits it. I wanted to try the stock tips of the BQEYZ Summer with the KZ DQ6 to hear the effect but the tips just keep sliding off.


I agree.   The narrow nozzles really limit ear tip selection, though one could modify it by wrapping tape around the outside of the nozzle.


----------



## TheVortex

I have tried Blon tips and Sony MH755 tips with my DQ6 with success but they should stick to using the wider nozzle they used to have.


----------



## cappuchino

IEMusic said:


> I agree.   The narrow nozzles really limit ear tip selection, though one could modify it by wrapping tape around the outside of the nozzle.


I didn't think of that. Thanks a lot!




TheVortex said:


> I have tried Blon tips and Sony MH755 tips with my DQ6 with success but they should stick to using the wider nozzle they used to have.


Yeah, the Sony tips fit the DQ6 perfectly as well as the Moondrop SSP tips if you have those without sliding off.


----------



## courierdriver

I agree that the nozzles are much smaller than those on other KZ/CCA iems that I own. In order to make your aftermarket tips fit better; I have 2 solutions.
One: you can buy some silicon plumbing tape (available at many dollar stores for $1-2), and cut it into a small 1- inch piece that you can cut diagonally and wrap around the stem of the DQ6. You can then insert your preferred tips over that, so they don't slide off and become lodged in your ears.
Two: you can take a set of the crappy included silicon tips that aren't your size (I use large, so anything in small size will never be used and end up in the trash); and turn them inside out. Ie...flip tip them to expose the stems of the tips. Then, using a sharp pair of scissors; simply cut the stems off at the "bowl" of each tip and insert over the nozzles. Then slide your preferred tips on top of the stems/ nozzles.
I did this with the notoriously hard to fit Blon BL03 and it worked spectacularly.


----------



## PROblemdetected

Alpha Whale said:


> Just re-read your post. I had a VERY DIFFICULT TIME removing the BA10 faceplates so I don't necessarily recommend it. I used an unusual tool (sort of a cantilevered set of plyers with unusual lips) I found at my work site to remove the faceplates but I marred the faceplates of the first BA10. Afterward, I had to put multiple layers of masking tape on the tip of the tool to avoid scratching the finish as I applied pressure to separate the faceplate from the main body. Then I used a plastic spudger to continue the separating process.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These are two of the underrated best iem that KZ made.


----------



## Nimweth

sakt1moko said:


> These are two of the underrated best iem that KZ made.


I have not heard the AS12 but the BA10 is my favourite all BA IEM.


----------



## r31ya

courierdriver said:


> I agree that the nozzles are much smaller than those on other KZ/CCA iems that I own. In order to make your aftermarket tips fit better; I have 2 solutions.
> One: you can buy some silicon plumbing tape (available at many dollar stores for $1-2), and cut it into a small 1- inch piece that you can cut diagonally and wrap around the stem of the DQ6. You can then insert your preferred tips over that, so they don't slide off and become lodged in your ears.
> Two: you can take a set of the crappy included silicon tips that aren't your size (I use large, so anything in small size will never be used and end up in the trash); and turn them inside out. Ie...flip tip them to expose the stems of the tips. Then, using a sharp pair of scissors; simply cut the stems off at the "bowl" of each tip and insert over the nozzles. Then slide your preferred tips on top of the stems/ nozzles.
> I did this with the notoriously hard to fit Blon BL03 and it worked spectacularly.


Yeah, the Nozzle things makes my tips collection useless as none of the are fit. Most of my tips is widebore.
Its the reason i'm not immediately re-bought KZ DQ6 after i gave it to my brother in law.
This trick seems useable.

Hows the nozzle on CCA CSN by the way?


----------



## 1clearhead

r31ya said:


> Yeah, the Nozzle things makes my tips collection useless as none of the are fit. Most of my tips is widebore.
> Its the reason i'm not immediately re-bought KZ DQ6 after i gave it to my brother in law.
> This trick seems useable.
> 
> Hows the nozzle on CCA CSN by the way?


They are similar to the DQ6. But, there's plenty of aftermarket narrow-bore silicone ear tips on Aliexpress.com. It's not really a big deal. They really cost cheap and can easily fit with no problem. Even the star line tips from KZ are narrow-bore silicone ear tips and should fit with no problem.

For everyone interested, check them out at the link below...
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...B_20210407003146&SearchText=silicone+ear+tips

-Clear


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Guys who are throwing new starlines in the trash can, please don't. Instead use the flip tips mod as even the S size can be flipped and can be converted into MS size tip and M size into ML size.  15s of investment and you get a cheapie version of spiral dots for free. They are super comfortable and soft. Folks who have small ear canals you get a very comfortable and nice sounding tip OOTB.

Thanks to Slater and Hakuzen for giving all of us an easy way to repurpose spare tips and save monies on buying expensive tips.


----------



## peskypesky

ugh. just got my KB Ear KS1's, which I love...and now I'm wanting to order the CCA CSN's.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

r31ya said:


> Yeah, the Nozzle things makes my tips collection useless as none of the are fit. Most of my tips is widebore.
> Its the reason i'm not immediately re-bought KZ DQ6 after i gave it to my brother in law.
> This trick seems useable.
> 
> Hows the nozzle on CCA CSN by the way?











Here is the comparison CCA CSN vs KZ DQ6, both have same size nozzle, to my eyes.  Shell size CSN is tiny bit bigger.


----------



## MacAttack7

I have both CSN and DQ6 and they do fit differently but both fit great with the right tips for your ears.
I use the short wireless spinfit tips for the CSN, but use the longer CP100's for the DQ6.
The stock tips weren't very good with either.


----------



## 1clearhead

peskypesky said:


> ugh. just got my KB Ear KS1's, which I love...and now I'm wanting to order the CCA CSN's.


With the surprising tuning the CSN has...I say? Go for it!


----------



## peskypesky

1clearhead said:


> With the surprising tuning the CSN has...I say? Go for it!



I'm tempted, but in the past 6 months I've gotten the Blon BL-03's, the KB Ear KS2's, and the KB Ear KS1's.....so I really should restrain myself.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 8, 2021)

peskypesky said:


> I'm tempted, but in the past 6 months I've gotten the Blon BL-03's, the KB Ear KS2's, and the KB Ear KS1's.....so I really should restrain myself.


Just one more!...Only just one more!


----------



## Podster

Been a while since I bought a KZ but I'm looking forward to my DQ6 getting here  I did want to say these two Chi-Fi companies really play well together






I've often wondered if the tuners over at Benjie used KZ's while testing cause I've found great synergy in many Benjie/KZ setups


----------



## InvisibleInk

Podster said:


> Been a while since I bought a KZ but I'm looking forward to my DQ6 getting here  I did want to say these two Chi-Fi companies really play well together
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered if the tuners over at Benjie used KZ's while testing cause I've found great synergy in many Benjie/KZ setups


I have the BA10 (because I am Ironman), and I’m getting the ZS6 soon because I want to pretend I have an Andromeda.


----------



## G777 (Apr 9, 2021)

InvisibleInk said:


> I have the BA10 (because I am Ironman), and I’m getting the ZS6 soon because I want to pretend I have an Andromeda.


Doesn't the ZS5 look more like an Andromeda?

Edit: looks like the ZS5 is made of plastic whereas the ZS6 is aluminium


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ's best looking iem? It sure looks damn clean.


----------



## RikudouGoku




----------



## Podster

G777 said:


> Doesn't the ZS5 look more like an Andromeda?
> 
> Edit: looks like the ZS5 is made of plastic whereas the ZS6 is aluminium



Yes due to the 5 not having vents however the 5 does not have visible screws because it was glued plastic  5's on the left





But the 6's are sweet @InvisibleInk The Pod clearly has issues





And let's not forget the final rendition and best of the progression of this design and body (at least for KZ)


----------



## InvisibleInk

Podster said:


> Yes due to the 5 not having vents however the 5 does not have visible screws because it was glued plastic  5's on the left
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I’m looking forward to getting them. I’m sure they’ll sound great and look cool doing it.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Yes due to the 5 not having vents however the 5 does not have visible screws because it was glued plastic  5's on the left
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1 for the wonderful ZS7. That and the BA10: KZ's finest!


----------



## astermk

I'm just now trying out the SpinFit CP800's on my CCA CA16 and they're so much better than the atrocious stock tips it's ridiculous. Besides better isolation and comfort, they give them a brighter sound and tightin up the muddy bass the CA16 have out of the box. CA16s sound REALLY good with these.


----------



## Podster (Apr 9, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> +1 for the wonderful ZS7. That and the BA10: KZ's finest!



Indeed Nim and I'll give it to @RikudouGoku on his shots of the DQ6 and that super clear shell but subjectively speaking beauty is also in the eye of the beholder and to me both the BA10 and ZS7's are pretty sweet looking iem's especially (like the DQ6) for their respective price points  Heck, although an all plastic shell I think the ZS4's are gorgeous with their simplistic and shiny finish


----------



## Podster

Not to pile on here but I gifted my Green and Red ZS6's away to good friends because I thought those colors looked kind of silly and took a cue off the 7's and swapped out face plates on my Black and Gray pair and to me they imo now look like iem's in Tuxedo's  (Please ignore that earwax hanging around in that left earpiece)


----------



## InvisibleInk

Podster said:


> Not to pile on here but I gifted my Green and Red ZS6's away to good friends because I thought those colors looked kind of silly and took a cue off the 7's and swapped out face plates on my Black and Gray pair and to me they imo now look like iem's in Tuxedo's  (Please ignore that earwax hanging around in that left earpiece)



Great job!


----------



## courierdriver

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ's best looking iem? It sure looks damn clean.


Yup...and sounds great too! I've been giving them a lot of eartime lately. So much so, that I've been neglecting alot of my other favorites; like the ZS10 PRO and BLON BL03. These are a great sounding set.
I'll do some comparisons soon; but for now, I'm just loving this 3 DD set! It's like listening to a good vinyl setup. I'm absolutely floored by the dynamics of this set, while still maintaining some warmth. It's got good details; but it's not hyper detailed like the ZS10 Pro or even the Blon BL03. 
I find the 03 a bit more organic and has a slight bit better tonality with some music...but the DQ6 is the better all rounder, with most of the music I listen to. I will eventually try to do a comparison review with the DQ6, ZS10 PRO, KZ ZAX and BLON BL03; once I've received the ZAX. I'm still waiting for the ZAX, plus a couple of XINHS balanced cables to arrive from the last Aliexpress sale.
Based on my early impressions on the KZ products I currently own...I have no problem with calling myself a KZ "fanboy". I've bought the ZS10 PRO three times; twice for myself and once to give as a gift.


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> Been a while since I bought a KZ but I'm looking forward to my DQ6 getting here  I did want to say these two Chi-Fi companies really play well together
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered if the tuners over at Benjie used KZ's while testing cause I've found great synergy in many Benjie/KZ setups


Did Benjie stop making that model?  I can't find them any more.

I did find this DAP on Amazon which seems to usea similar body:
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Lo...child=1&keywords=Grtdhx&qid=1618035106&sr=8-1


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

courierdriver said:


> Yup...and sounds great too! I've been giving them a lot of eartime lately. So much so, that I've been neglecting alot of my other favorites; like the ZS10 PRO and BLON BL03. These are a great sounding set.
> I'll do some comparisons soon; but for now, I'm just loving this 3 DD set! It's like listening to a good vinyl setup. I'm absolutely floored by the dynamics of this set, while still maintaining some warmth. It's got good details; but it's not hyper detailed like the ZS10 Pro or even the Blon BL03.
> I find the 03 a bit more organic and has a slight bit better tonality with some music...but the DQ6 is the better all rounder, with most of the music I listen to. I will eventually try to do a comparison review with the DQ6, ZS10 PRO, KZ ZAX and BLON BL03; once I've received the ZAX. I'm still waiting for the ZAX, plus a couple of XINHS balanced cables to arrive from the last Aliexpress sale.
> Based on my early impressions on the KZ products I currently own...I have no problem with calling myself a KZ "fanboy". I've bought the ZS10 PRO three times; twice for myself and once to give as a gift.


Ditto! I identify myself as a KZ fanboy despite not buying that much. Because, without KZ I, like many of us, wouldn't even have gotten into this hobby. Folks can act high and snooty and thrash it's tuning as much as they want, for me nothing can take away the wow factor I got from ED9 (my first ever KZs) and subsequently ZSN. It's been a while since I've bought a KZ but it's because I've been leaning towards a slightly different signature and not because I hate them. Now, after almost 8 months, I will again buy a CSN or DQ6 because it's good to indulge into the wild and fun world of KZ.

And in the budget segment, no brand can beat them in terms of innovation.


----------



## peskypesky

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Ditto! I identify myself as a KZ fanboy despite not buying that much. Because, without KZ I, like many of us, wouldn't even have gotten into this hobby. Folks can act high and snooty and thrash it's tuning as much as they want, for me nothing can take away the wow factor I got from ED9 (my first ever KZs) and subsequently ZSN. It's been a while since I've bought a KZ but it's because I've been leaning towards a slightly different signature and not because I hate them. Now, after almost 8 months, I will again buy a CSN or DQ6 because it's good to indulge into the wild and fun world of KZ.
> 
> And in the budget segment, no brand can beat them in terms of innovation.


Yes, the KZ ED9 was my gateway drug to ChiFi.   They gave me MANY hours of listening pleasure. I then got the KZ ZS5's. I've really enjoyed those too. But now, I'm on the KBEar bandwagon.


----------



## 1clearhead

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Ditto! I identify myself as a KZ fanboy despite not buying that much. Because, without KZ I, like many of us, wouldn't even have gotten into this hobby. Folks can act high and snooty and thrash it's tuning as much as they want, for me nothing can take away the wow factor I got from ED9 (my first ever KZs) and subsequently ZSN. It's been a while since I've bought a KZ but it's because I've been leaning towards a slightly different signature and not because I hate them. Now, after almost 8 months, I will again buy a CSN or DQ6 because it's good to indulge into the wild and fun world of KZ.
> 
> And in the budget segment, no brand can beat them in terms of innovation.


In the budget world, "I'm back on the saddle" with *KZ* and *CCA*!

My personal advice...

For *CCA CSN* and *KZ DQ6*:
Just change those awful default ear tips for "aftermarket silicone ear tips."

For *KZ EDX*:
Just change the copper cables to "silver cables" instead.

You WILL NOT regret the outcome!

-Clear


----------



## Podster

peskypesky said:


> Did Benjie stop making that model?  I can't find them any more.
> 
> I did find this DAP on Amazon which seems to usea similar body:
> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Lo...child=1&keywords=Grtdhx&qid=1618035106&sr=8-1



Not bought any Benjie's in over a year but best I can tell my X6 is now the X5! 










Now the new one does incorporate BT. I'll also tell you many guys who loved the S5's, T6 and X6 loved them for their great sound, word has it once Benjie added BT to the S5, T6 and X6 models they sort of lost the magic sound signature they had with the original non BT models  Now I can't vouch either way as I've not bought a BT model and wish now that I had kept both a red/black & Gun Metal original S5's. I gave so many S5's with KZ's as Christmas presents and I'm pretty sure after years now are all still working but unfortunately I also gave even my S5's away I still hear from recipients how much they like their simple but killer sounding rigs so that's all the validation I need to confirm how sweet the original models sound

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ 

They seem to have revamped the S5 and now it's the X6, guess I'm going to have to pull the trigger and check one out, I know a Benjie rep was following the thread where we were complaining BT killed the magic so I'm going to see if they listened I mean for under $21 it's not a big risk, fingers 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ 

I believe it was the K8 which replaced the T6 in their lineup but not 100% positive. Now I'm thinking I'm going to try one of these new A5 Plus models cause they are  BT free and are basically the same specs as the original S5 Again 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## chinmie

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Ditto! I identify myself as a KZ fanboy despite not buying that much. Because, without KZ I, like many of us, wouldn't even have gotten into this hobby. Folks can act high and snooty and thrash it's tuning as much as they want, for me nothing can take away the wow factor I got from ED9 (my first ever KZs) and subsequently ZSN. It's been a while since I've bought a KZ but it's because I've been leaning towards a slightly different signature and not because I hate them. Now, after almost 8 months, I will again buy a CSN or DQ6 because it's good to indulge into the wild and fun world of KZ.
> 
> And in the budget segment, no brand can beat them in terms of innovation.


 add me up to that. even though i haven't bought many KZs compared to other members here, i will always have a soft spot for KZ, that's why i still read and follow this thread.


----------



## peskypesky

Podster said:


> Not bought any Benjie's in over a year but best I can tell my X6 is now the X5!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Luckily, I still have my gun-metal Benjie S5 and it remains my favorite DAP. I also have a Fiio X1 1st generation, and a Ruizu D51...but the Benjie wins for it's small size, light weight, great sound,  and low price.  I may order an X6 at some point...but really don't need it.

I used to have a Sansa Clip+ and that tiny thing was amazing...but I lost it.


----------



## alamnp

peskypesky said:


> Yes, the KZ ED9 was my gateway drug to ChiFi.   They gave me MANY hours of listening pleasure. I then got the KZ ZS5's. I've really enjoyed those too. But now, I'm on the KBEar bandwagon.


Same here KBear is just amazing...


----------



## peskypesky

alamnp said:


> Same here KBear is just amazing...


I got the KS2 first and loved it, so I got the KS1 a week ago and love them too. I feel like all my music has a sparkle to it that it didn't have before.


----------



## alamnp

peskypesky said:


> I got the KS2 first and loved it, so I got the KS1 a week ago and love them too. I feel like all my music has a sparkle to it that it didn't have before.



Did you get Believe? It is probably one of the best DD under $200. I have 10 IEMs altogether, but always go back to Believe because it sounds that good. I could not afford DUNU Luna, but this is one that come close to it for a fraction of its cost.

I also had KS1 and OS1, they have great products. Loved my CCA CA16 and KZ ZS10 pro. But due to their Pokemon culture, I decided to jump to the KBear wagon. So far, has not disappoint at all.


----------



## peskypesky

alamnp said:


> Did you get Believe? It is probably one of the best DD under $200. I have 10 IEMs altogether, but always go back to Believe because it sounds that good. I could not afford DUNU Luna, but this is one that come close to it for a fraction of its cost.
> 
> I also had KS1 and OS1, they have great products. Loved my CCA CA16 and KZ ZS10 pro. But due to their Pokemon culture, I decided to jump to the KBear wagon. So far, has not disappoint at all.


Believe is WAY out of my price range. I'm sure they're great, but I'm frugal.

Not sure what you mean by KZ having a Pokemon culture.


----------



## Nimweth

G


peskypesky said:


> Believe is WAY out of my price range. I'm sure they're great, but I'm frugal.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by KZ having a Pokemon culture.


Gotta catch 'em all!


----------



## PROblemdetected (Apr 12, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> I have not heard the AS12 but the BA10 is my favourite all BA IEM.


BA10 was my first chinese iem, and Its the favourite of my collection.
AS12 deserves a try for 50 euros if u like the BA10


----------



## baskingshark

peskypesky said:


> Believe is WAY out of my price range. I'm sure they're great, but I'm frugal.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by KZ having a Pokemon culture.



There's a pokemon (the anime cartoon) motto of *"gotta catch em all"*, in the protagonists of Pokemon wanting to catch the entire collection of pokemon monters. Something like this pic:


It's kind of a KZ meme on audio forums, in that KZ (and by extension sister company CCA) has almost biweekly sidegradish releases in the past few years. The general consensus, is that there isn't much value add in IEM models between the quick turnaround of spammish releases. I have no doubt that some KZ/CCA releases are gems once in a while, but perhaps for every one IEM they get right, there are many more that are at best marginal upgrades/sidegrades, or sometimes even worse than the predecessors. Their release strategy reminds me of throwing as much stuff on a wall and hoping something finally sticks. But it burns a lot of early consumers beta tester guinea pigs who unknowingly go and get the latest shiny KZ release, and realize it isn't much different from their previous models.

KZ was my first CHIFI gateway IEM when I first came to the CHIFI hobby, they are still one of the kings in the sub $50 market, so I will be forever grateful that KZ really lowered the prices for IEMs and provided great price performance ratio against western/boutique brands. Though KZ didn't do too well in recent times trying to breach the $100 USD mark with the AS16 and ASX, which weren't well received in general. I commend them for trying to go higher end, but there's really tough competition against bigboys at the $100 USD mark, and consumers there are much much more picky at that price bracket.

Maybe KZ/CCA tuning has improved in recent times, compared to their previous years' old school deep V shaped sibilant and harsh treble types, but if any KZ rep is reading, my humble feedback is that I would rather they spend some time on tuning well and slowing down their releases, rather than going for the highest driver count nuclear race and spamming releases that don't really give much value add. When i first entered the CHIFI hobby 3 years ago, I bought every available KZ that released on day 1, such was the anticipation that KZ brought when I compared them against the way overpriced western stuff. Back then, their release schedule wasn't as hectic and you could tell each release was an upgrade or intentionally different from the predecessor. But nowadays, I get kind of numb and apathetic seeing another budget sidegrade KZ/CCA released, I skip most KZ/CCAs nowadays, I apologize if I offended any KZ fanboys here, but there's a lot of other CHIFI outside of KZ nowadays that have better timbral accuracy for acoustic instruments and tonality, though in general KZs still give quite good technical performance compared to similarly priced competitors.


----------



## alamnp (Apr 12, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> There's a pokemon (the anime cartoon) motto of *"gotta catch em all"*, in the protagonists of Pokemon wanting to catch the entire collection of pokemon monters. Something like this pic:
> 
> 
> It's kind of a KZ meme on audio forums, in that KZ (and by extension sister company CCA) has almost biweekly sidegradish releases in the past few years. The general consensus, is that there isn't much value add in IEM models between the quick turnaround of spammish releases. I have no doubt that some KZ/CCA releases are gems once in a while, but perhaps for every one IEM they get right, there are many more that are at best marginal upgrades/sidegrades, or sometimes even worse than the predecessors. Their release strategy reminds me of throwing as much stuff on a wall and hoping something finally sticks. But it burns a lot of early consumers beta tester guinea pigs who unknowingly go and get the latest shiny KZ release, and realize it isn't much different from their previous models.
> ...



Same here, I spent $200 for KZ products, then stopped after ZAX, their IEMs for most are sidegrade... not worth spending more money for it.

I was a bit disappointed with ZAX to be honest. I have ZS6, ED9, ZAX, ZS10 Pro, CA16. I even gifted several ED9 and ZS10 Pro and ZAX to others.
However, if they improved in one spectrum of the IEM, there is always one that will drop in quality.

Another thing about KZ, you have to upgrade the cable and eartips. Why can't KZ just increase the price and put all of the premium accessories?

I tried TRN, TFZ, NF Audio and KBear, so far only TRN that could not match KZ, the rest pretty much left KZ in the dust. TFZ also stalling in the last couple of years, IMO.

I just wished that KZ/CCA spend more of their time to come up with one or two IEM per year that could be winners.
I apologized for my humble opinions... I just hope same as baskingshark that KZ team will hear us out, after all KZ started my hobby in IEM.


----------



## baskingshark

alamnp said:


> Same here, I spent $200 for KZ products, then stopped after ZAX, their IEMs for most are sidegrade... not worth spending more money for it.
> 
> I was a bit disappointed with ZAX to be honest. I have ZS6, ED9, ZAX, ZS10 Pro, CA16. I even gifted several ED9 and ZS10 Pro and ZAX to others.
> However, if they improved in on spectrum of the IEM, there is always one that will drop in quality.
> ...



The thing is, buying a lot of budget sidegrades does add up one day to a midfi or even TOTL IEM. I learnt that the hardway.

At least it is somewhat easier to sell 2nd hand midfi/TOTL gear, but locally I find it very hard to sell away my budget KZs that I don't use, not much interest for them.


----------



## alamnp

baskingshark said:


> The thing is, buying a lot of budget sidegrades does add up one day to a midfi or even TOTL IEM. I learnt that the hardway.
> 
> At least it is somewhat easier to sell 2nd hand midfi/TOTL gear, but locally I find it very hard to sell away my budget KZs that I don't use, not much interest for them.


Yep, I could not resell any of my KZ or CCA, I am stuck with $200 worth of IEMs that I have not touched for awhile.

NFAudio, KBear, I had no problem with it.  Sold it with minimal lost. That's why now I have LZ A7 coming. So far from NM2+, Believe to LZ A7, I only spent $300 total, sold NF Audio and my 2nd pair of Believe with $20 lost.


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> The thing is, buying a lot of budget sidegrades does add up one day to a midfi or even TOTL IEM. I learnt that the hardway.
> 
> At least it is somewhat easier to sell 2nd hand midfi/TOTL gear, but locally I find it very hard to sell away my budget KZs that I don't use, not much interest for them.



in my country the market is a bit more odd.
it's very easy to sell budget brands, especially "big-named" brands like KZ, Tinaudio, Kbear, etc..but mostly  there's always a market for budget 2nd hand. 

mid level, however, it's harder to sell. usually less known brand would take a dive in value. one oddly weird fact: even that the LZ A7 is widely praised here in Headfi, i think only two people that i know of in my local forum that have it..me, and a friend of mine, who happens to auditioned my unit and immediately buy it himself the next day.

TOTL? certain brand would be sold in an instant


----------



## alamnp

chinmie said:


> in my country the market is a bit more odd.
> it's very easy to sell budget brands, especially "big-named" brands like KZ, Tinaudio, Kbear, etc..but mostly  there's always a market for budget 2nd hand.
> 
> mid level, however, it's harder to sell. usually less known brand would take a dive in value. one oddly weird fact: even that the LZ A7 is widely praised here in Headfi, i think only two people that i know of in my local forum that have it..me, and a friend of mine, who happens to auditioned my unit and immediately buy it himself the next day.
> ...


which filter and crossover (pop/monitor) you prefer? I am waiting for mine... but probably to lazy to check all config


----------



## chinmie

alamnp said:


> which filter and crossover (pop/monitor) you prefer? I am waiting for mine... but probably to lazy to check all config



my personal favorites are: gold-monitor, black-monitor, and silver-pop (for V-shaped tunings and movies).
you should (and probably will) check all of them yourself, as all settings are basically great
you might find a different set of settings that work better for you


----------



## PROblemdetected

Probably KZ is realasing more products than we need...
But they are innovating, making the first triple dynamic driver, and they sell for only 20 dollars.
Maybe not all releases are nice, but they got their own audio fingerprint.

I dont see anyone talking about the latest release of moondrop, which is doing exactly the same as KZ, re-releasing all over again their catalogue. Nobody complaints about it.

CCA16, KZ AS12, KZ DQ6... I think they are really nice iem, for less that 50 dollars, and they are so much difference between them.

Long life KZ. 😝


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 12, 2021)

I think recently that KZ and CCA has been doing a lot better lately in the low cost budget area like the DQ6 -awesome 3DD, EDX -balanced budget surprise, and CSN -incredible V-shape champ!...when compared to a few years back to their older budget models. But, I can not say the same for their higher priced earphones. According to my friends here in China, they are kind of baffled that the lower budget counter parts sounds just as good or even better then their pricier KZ or CCA models. You could even compare them in the FR graphs and see the difference. So, personally I'll just stick to their budget models for now where they actually made improvements in coherency with little to no sibilance or harshness. With a little tweak here and there like swapping cables and using aftermarket ear tips they can really hold their own, IMHO.

Now, remind you I'm coming from a higher price bracket where I own the LZ A7, A6, A6mini, A5, A4, NM2+, Kbear Diamonds, MT300, MT100, and much, much more, etc....

-Clear


----------



## baskingshark

sakt1moko said:


> Probably KZ is realasing more products than we need...
> But they are innovating, making the first triple dynamic driver, and they sell for only 20 dollars.
> Maybe not all releases are nice, but they got their own audio fingerprint.
> 
> ...



Yes agreed, Moondrop is another can of worms haha with the KXXS -> Starfield -> Aria 2. But the BIG difference here is an anime girl packaging and marketing can secure lots of sales and hype up their fans. The anime packaging also adds a bit of "perceived" refinement and elegance to the product, rather than a metallic looking shell with generic box packaging and some alphabet as a name.

But even so, I do agree that Moondrop releases a lot of stuff and even though a lot of their gear uses their diffuse field tuning, but at least their multiple releases are a bit different. They do have selections from budget all the way to midfi and TOTL gear, they do different driver configs and shell designs and different driver materials.

Though a very interesting experiment should be done: if KZ or TRN or one of the traditional budget CHIFI brands released a budget IEM with an anime girl packaging, I bet sales will shoot thru the roof, irregardless of the tuning being some shouty V shaped banshee.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

1clearhead said:


> In the budget world, "I'm back on the saddle" with *KZ* and *CCA*!
> 
> My personal advice...
> 
> ...


Absolutely. I have EDX and I'm not much of a cable beliver, but I used them with Foam tips and a cable with balanced out, they sound too good for $7 IEM. The best part is KZ is giving consumers an opportunity to experiment with an IEM that costs less than a cup of Starbucks. That's immense IMO. I'm most probably pulling the trigger on CSN as I have misplaced my ZSN and need something similar in 1BA+1DD space. Have too many single DDs atm and am not that intrigued by DQ6.


chinmie said:


> add me up to that. even though i haven't bought many KZs compared to other members here, i will always have a soft spot for KZ, that's why i still read and follow this thread.


Same here. I hardly buy 1 KZ/CCA per year or so but I just love the way this brand continues to innovate and challenge the price to performance ratio.


1clearhead said:


> I think recently that KZ and CCA has been doing a lot better lately in the low cost budget area like the DQ6 -awesome 3DD, EDX -balanced budget surprise, and CSN -incredible V-shape champ!...when compared to a few years back to their older budget models. But, I can not say the same for their higher priced earphones. According to my friends here in China, they are kind of baffled that the lower budget counter parts sounds just as good or even better then their pricier KZ or CCA models. You could even compare them in the FR graphs and see the difference. So, personally I'll just stick to their budget models for now where they actually made improvements in coherency with little to no sibilance or harshness. With a little tweak here and there like swapping cables and using aftermarket ear tips they can really hold their own, IMHO.
> 
> Now, remind you I'm coming from a higher price bracket where I own the LZ A7, A6, A6mini, A5, A4, NM2+, Kbear Diamonds, MT300, MT100, and much, much more, etc....
> 
> -Clear



Precisely why I didn't purchase any IEM from ZS and Terminator series. If they're just a marginal improvement on what a ZSN offers then I am very much happy to save my monies by purchasing ZSN and invest the additional funds on something else. Maybe buy a new cable or save up for an amp. Members of this forum are smart and their impressions have helped me in saving money as opposed to burning a hole in my wallet 😂 which is a Head-fi paradox


----------



## RikudouGoku

sakt1moko said:


> Probably KZ is realasing more products than we need...
> But they are innovating, making the first triple dynamic driver, and they sell for only 20 dollars.
> Maybe not all releases are nice, but they got their own audio fingerprint.
> 
> ...


KZ isn't the first one with a 3dd iem. They certainly are in anything close to this price range though. 




baskingshark said:


> Yes agreed, Moondrop is another can of worms haha with the KXXS -> Starfield -> Aria 2. But the BIG difference here is an anime girl packaging and marketing can secure lots of sales and hype up their fans. The anime packaging also adds a bit of "perceived" refinement and elegance to the product, rather than a metallic looking shell with generic box packaging and some alphabet as a name.
> 
> But even so, I do agree that Moondrop releases a lot of stuff and even though a lot of their gear uses their diffuse field tuning, but at least their multiple releases are a bit different. They do have selections from budget all the way to midfi and TOTL gear, they do different driver configs and shell designs and different driver materials.
> 
> Though a very interesting experiment should be done: if KZ or TRN or one of the traditional budget CHIFI brands released a budget IEM with an anime girl packaging, I bet sales will shoot thru the roof, irregardless of the tuning being some shouty V shaped banshee.


I believe that the Faaeal hibiscus tried it but failed pretty hard.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ isn't the first one with a 3dd iem. They certainly are in anything close to this price range though.



Haha actually there were 3 dynamic driver budget CHIFI way before KZ.

Such as the KINBOOFI F60, Hisenior N3 to name a few.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe that the Faaeal hibiscus tried it but failed pretty hard.


The reason Hibiscus failed was they launched at $57 and the initial impressions pitted them against the sub-100 stalwarts from the get go. And, the lukewarm response in the initial days didn't help them either. 

Also, at that time DLC hypetrain was driven by Blon BL03 and few remaining Semkarch CNT1 which were everyone's go to recommendations in the sub-50 price range. And by the time, they brought the price cut and began selling them at $35, they were dead and buried. IMO it was the pricing which led to it's downfall. Although on the bright side, everyone got access to a good litz cable for peanuts.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> The reason Hibiscus failed was they launched at $57 and the initial impressions pitted them against the sub-100 stalwarts from the get go. And, the lukewarm response in the initial days didn't help them either.
> 
> Also, at that time DLC hypetrain was driven by Blon BL03 and few remaining Semkarch CNT1 which were everyone's go to recommendations in the sub-50 price range. And by the time, they brought the price cut and began selling them at $35, they were dead and buried. IMO it was the pricing which led to it's downfall. Although on the bright side, everyone got access to a good litz cable for peanuts.


Yeah, that stock cable is awesome. So it was overall a positive product because of that cable (and that they started selling the cable separately).


----------



## RikudouGoku




----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


>


To be honest, if Moondrop is Wit/Mappa quality style then Faaeal is more like J.C. Staff quality 😄


----------



## PROblemdetected

1clearhead said:


> I think recently that KZ and CCA has been doing a lot better lately in the low cost budget area like the DQ6 -awesome 3DD, EDX -balanced budget surprise, and CSN -incredible V-shape champ!...when compared to a few years back to their older budget models. But, I can not say the same for their higher priced earphones. According to my friends here in China, they are kind of baffled that the lower budget counter parts sounds just as good or even better then their pricier KZ or CCA models. You could even compare them in the FR graphs and see the difference. So, personally I'll just stick to their budget models for now where they actually made improvements in coherency with little to no sibilance or harshness. With a little tweak here and there like swapping cables and using aftermarket ear tips they can really hold their own, IMHO.
> 
> Now, remind you I'm coming from a higher price bracket where I own the LZ A7, A6, A6mini, A5, A4, NM2+, Kbear Diamonds, MT300, MT100, and much, much more, etc....
> 
> -Clear


Ive got a KBEAR Diamond, bought for 50€ on aliexpress a few months ago.
A really nice iem, Im exhausted recommending it.

Thats another factor for not going on the hype train anymore, I could wait until the price going down, or get them on the used market. (Just get a Tri i3 for 70 euros like new, for example)


----------



## PROblemdetected

RikudouGoku said:


>


This iem and the tripowin and the next that I want to try!


----------



## PROblemdetected

baskingshark said:


> Haha actually there were 3 dynamic driver budget CHIFI way before KZ.
> 
> Such as the KINBOOFI F60, Hisenior N3 to name a few.


Whatever, they change the step, last release before DQ6 were the ASX with 10ba... So it seems they are trying to "innovate" on their product line.

Anyways, KZ deserves our attention, I still in love with a lot of their products, so always is a nice brand to check it out.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Apr 12, 2021)

G777 said:


> Doesn't the ZS5 look more like an Andromeda?
> 
> Edit: looks like the ZS5 is made of plastic whereas the ZS6 is aluminium


Yes, I have ZS5, actually it was my first encounter with KZ, back in old days, it’s made of cheap plastic, the other IEM of KZ  line up at that time was simply awful! ZS5 was from now a typical chifi V-shaped, and it has identified KZ sound since then. KZ was still a copycat, like Toyota, Nissan (DATSUN) back in 1940s ,  and at very early stage like any other manufacturing business back then.
It’s funny little V-shape IEM, a bit old school I had to say, but still enjoyable.


----------



## alamnp

sakt1moko said:


> This iem and the tripowin and the next that I want to try!


if you are talking tripowin tc 01, save your money and get KBear KS1 instead. I owned it... after KS1, TC01 sounded... mehhhh


----------



## alamnp

sakt1moko said:


> Whatever, they change the step, last release before DQ6 were the ASX with 10ba... So it seems they are trying to "innovate" on their product line.
> 
> Anyways, KZ deserves our attention, I still in love with a lot of their products, so always is a nice brand to check it out.


I concur. I bought 9 KZ/CCAs in 2020 alone...

I might buy one KZ/CCA per year... like baskingshark said, buying multiple sidegrade IEMs add up the dollar spent


----------



## TechnoidFR

sakt1moko said:


> Whatever, they change the step, last release before DQ6 were the ASX with 10ba... So it seems they are trying to "innovate" on their product line.
> 
> Anyways, KZ deserves our attention, I still in love with a lot of their products, so always is a nice brand to check it out.



3dd is not new, 2/3 years ago it was plenty of triple dd
And asx is bad. Tuning or phase default


----------



## AmericanSpirit

If g


courierdriver said:


> Yup...and sounds great too! I've been giving them a lot of eartime lately. So much so, that I've been neglecting alot of my other favorites; like the ZS10 PRO and BLON BL03. These are a great sounding set.
> I'll do some comparisons soon; but for now, I'm just loving this 3 DD set! It's like listening to a good vinyl setup. I'm absolutely floored by the dynamics of this set, while still maintaining some warmth. It's got good details; but it's not hyper detailed like the ZS10 Pro or even the Blon BL03.
> I find the 03 a bit more organic and has a slight bit better tonality with some music...but the DQ6 is the better all rounder, with most of the music I listen to. I will eventually try to do a comparison review with the DQ6, ZS10 PRO, KZ ZAX and BLON BL03; once I've received the ZAX. I'm still waiting for the ZAX, plus a couple of XINHS balanced cables to arrive from the last Aliexpress sale.
> Based on my early impressions on the KZ products I currently own...I have no problem with calling myself a KZ "fanboy". I've bought the ZS10 PRO three times; twice for myself and once to give as a gift.


if you like ZAX, give it a try for TRN VX👍


TechnoidFR said:


> 3dd is not new, 2/3 years ago it was plenty of triple dd
> And asx is bad. Tuning or phase default


agree, ASX was a mistake..KZ still lacks linear phase tuning to make sound cohesive especially for ASX. DQ6 got pretty cohesive phasing, so they are starting to get kicks in!


----------



## TechnoidFR

AmericanSpirit said:


> If g
> 
> if you like ZAX, give it a try for TRN VX👍
> 
> agree, ASX was a mistake..KZ still lacks linear phase tuning to make sound cohesive especially for ASX. DQ6 got pretty cohesive phasing, so they are starting to get kicks in!


Since ca16 cca/kz is not in good mood

For me only ZAX and ZSN PRO X Are interesting in 2020

I just received csn/dq6 but since c16 they don't arrive to up like trn I think.
Where are the isolation of c16/ as10? Where are the good sound full ba of c16 
After 80/100$ purpose it's a big fail... ( Asx/ cs16/asf )


----------



## peskypesky

baskingshark said:


> There's a pokemon (the anime cartoon) motto of *"gotta catch em all"*, in the protagonists of Pokemon wanting to catch the entire collection of pokemon monters. Something like this pic:
> 
> 
> It's kind of a KZ meme on audio forums, in that KZ (and by extension sister company CCA) has almost biweekly sidegradish releases in the past few years. The general consensus, is that there isn't much value add in IEM models between the quick turnaround of spammish releases. I have no doubt that some KZ/CCA releases are gems once in a while, but perhaps for every one IEM they get right, there are many more that are at best marginal upgrades/sidegrades, or sometimes even worse than the predecessors. Their release strategy reminds me of throwing as much stuff on a wall and hoping something finally sticks. But it burns a lot of early consumers beta tester guinea pigs who unknowingly go and get the latest shiny KZ release, and realize it isn't much different from their previous models.
> ...


That makes a lot of sense. KZ really does seem to pump out a dizzying number of models. It has actually baffled me a bit.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Apr 12, 2021)

After several attempt KZ seemed to decided to pursue their strategic positioning in TWS market and new low-end like DQ6 to me. It’s simply vast majority of the music listening scene migrated to TWS nowadays, with few exceptions like us in headfi. 

As KZ were one fo the market leader, and frontier, they are now facing fierce competitions, and as not all engineers agree with KZ/CCA way, some just simply leave company and starting their own like TRN.

There is still hope as KZ had done great job for DQ6 and CCA done great job for CSN, they seemed becoming a bit more passionate in tuning their IEMs rather than just buy lot of 30095/29689 for like couple of dollars per piece and jamming into one house with less experiments with tuning, attach KZ house V shape and pack it with Pearl River Delta’s manufacturing labors, that business model is simply exhausted already, as market they expanded cone to mature. The slash-and-burn agricultural businesses model only works in early stage of business development.

As a frontier KZ/CCA shall have enough capitals, my hope is that as a grown market leader, KZ group finally start to invent something new rather than packing drivers to make a new look with different outlook every couple of months.  And also spend more in tuning like many other high-end brands are doing as we speak.

By placing the BA into the nozzle, the ZAX/CKX/VX style model was something new and it sounded new, but my hope is something beyond physical configurations.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Apr 12, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> After several attempt KZ seemed to decided to pursue their strategic positioning in TWS market and new low-end like DQ6 to me. It’s simply vast majority of the music listening scene migrated to TWS nowadays, with few exceptions like us in headfi.
> 
> As KZ were one fo the market leader, and frontier, they are now facing fierce competitions, and as not all engineers agree with KZ/CCA way, some just simply leave company and starting their own like TRN.
> 
> ...


Apparently, the local Chinese market which amounts to over 80% of KZ's revenues is far from saturation. And in China, like other Asian countries that don't have high income per capita, most folks don't spend more than ~$15 on a earphone. $20-30 is considered to be like a premium purchase in these parts of the world. And that market is slowly being encroached by TWS players namely Xiaomi and Realme along with local players in each territory.

At that uber low price point, doing innovation+R&D is next to impossible without compromising on profits. That also explains why KZ is so desperate to crack $100 market. Because profits from that product line allows them to innovate in ultra cheap price bracket i.e. sub $20. Despite being a market leader, KZ doesn't have much leeway unless some Western brand brings some path breaking technology which they can reverse engineer and mass produce at 1/10th of the cost of the Western product.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Apparently, the local Chinese market which amounts to over 80% of KZ's revenues is far from saturation. And in China, like other Asian countries that don't have high income per capita, most folks don't spend more than ~$15 on a earphone. $20-30 is considered to be like a premium purchase in these parts of the world. And that market is slowly being encroached by TWS players namely Xiaomi and Realme along with local players in each territory.
> 
> At that uber low price point, doing innovation+R&D is next to impossible without compromising on profits. That also explains why KZ is so desperate to crack $100 market. Because profits from that product line allows them to innovate in ultra cheap price bracket i.e. sub $20. Despite being a market leader, KZ doesn't have much leeway unless some Western brand brings some path breaking technology which they can reverse engineer and mass produce at 1/10th of the cost of the Western product.


The market is not saturated of course, but it's maturing, KZ even needs to face their own family brand CCA in some product lines, not to mention emerging brands like QKZ, TRN, TFZ, KBF, there are a lot more choices compared to back in 2015. 
Yes, it's pretty evident from aliexpress official store, $8 KZ EDX and $27 DQ6 are their main revenue stream, 80:20 rule, 80% of revenue comes with 20% of the product line. 
KZ's latest TWS, the SKS #30019 + dual DD tells they seemed really got some nail in $20 TWS.  
KZ still is at its developing stage, but they already got their brand name established, so I'm looking at long-term investment and capital expenditure does not necessarily only focusing on their current financial profile. If they got venture capital infusion, they would be able to have in-house innovation & higher-end R&D capabilities.  
They have branding, whether good or bad, and some mass production knowhows, and as well as a sizable customer base, with established logistics, sounds like an investment profile.  For KZ the recent TWS market focusing strategy seemed much more realistic than competing with Mid-Fi tier, but risky as wireless technology is now politics dependent, if they concentrate too much weight on TWS, a shortage of Qualcomm chips would simply stop their revenue stream, which FiiO is currently experiencing and just announced they will cease most of low-end, mid-tier DAP and only concentrating on M11 Plus and M15 successor M17 using ESS chips, as Japanese AKM chips are now not an option due to some external factors.


----------



## voicemaster

Collecting Kz/cca opens up budget for my other hobbies (watches, knives, flashlights and gadgets).


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Apr 12, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> The market is not saturated of course, but it's maturing, KZ even needs to face their own family brand CCA in some product lines, not to mention emerging brands like QKZ, TRN, TFZ, KBF, there are a lot more choices compared to back in 2015.
> Yes, it's pretty evident from aliexpress official store, $8 KZ EDX and $27 DQ6 are their main revenue stream, 80:20 rule, 80% of revenue comes with 20% of the product line.
> KZ's latest TWS, the SKS #30019 + dual DD tells they seemed really got some nail in $20 TWS.
> KZ still is at its developing stage, but they already got their brand name established, so I'm looking at long-term investment and capital expenditure does not necessarily only focusing on their current financial profile. If they got venture capital infusion, they would be able to have in-house innovation & higher-end R&D capabilities.
> They have branding, whether good or bad, and some mass production knowhows, and as well as a sizable customer base, with established logistics, sounds like an investment profile.  For KZ the recent TWS market focusing strategy seemed much more realistic than competing with Mid-Fi tier, but risky as wireless technology is now politics dependent, if they concentrate too much weight on TWS, a shortage of Qualcomm chips would simply stop their revenue stream, which FiiO is currently experiencing and just announced they will cease most of low-end, mid-tier DAP and only concentrating on M11 Plus and M15 successor M17 using ESS chips, as Japanese AKM chips are now not an option due to some external factors.


There are lots of choices but KZ is also OEM for many of these brands so all in all KZ still gets the monies even if these brands succeed. Also, many times CCA acts as a prototype for KZ which allows them to test and get real world feedback. Especially in early days, CCA models seem like prototype for ZS and AS series. And then, they simply began rebranding existing KZ models, so this is also a win-win for them considering they're building a brand and sub-brand where both have loyal fan bases. This is a common practice in Chinese electronics market e.g. Xiaomi (Redmi and Poco), BBK (Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus), Huawei (honor) all follow this practice. This allows them to try and experiment and target users with specific needs.

With such an easy model of making reasonable money, they would hardly look for a VC. I may be wrong here but, with the turmoil in the global economy coupled with CCP's strong policies, VC investment doesn't look like a realistic scenario for them.

For better or worse, TWS is the future of budget IEMs and KZ will 100% focus on that. If Qualcomm can't supply chips to them then they will turn to mediatek, realtek, Huawei or Samsung to give chips with BT capabilities. KZ's obsession to compete in Mid-Fi with budget products is somewhat more baffling to me. Ironically, most of their premium offerings are all BA sets. They should rather tune a pristine single DD or a hybrid and take that segment by storm. With their new XUN DD and learnings from other models, it is baffling why are they only launching IEMs with 30095 across all price points.

Fiio's reason of backing away from DAP market is also because of the development in the smartphone market. Today a sub $300 smartphone is very much capable to challenge a budget and mid-fi DAP. And, a consumer would rather spend $50-100 extra to get a powerful device instead of spending $100-150 on a DAP which is an additional accessory. Fiio's rep on one of their threads had commented that it is simply not feasible for them to compete with smartphones with a budget/mid-fi DAP by using older or weaker Snapdragon chips because in terms of quality, the inbuilt DAC of Snapdragon 6xx and above is actually more than enough to give high fidelity audio even without proper tuning. And many smartphones nowadays are partnering with Dolby, DTS et al to provide software solutions to optimally utilize the power of mobile chipset. Even Fiio did that with Viper till recently.


----------



## courierdriver (Apr 12, 2021)

Just received my ZAX this afternoon. Only took 11 business days to arrive to me in Canada. I bought these as a gift to myself for my birthday, but my birthday isn't until middle of May. Also bought a XINHS balanced cable to connect this set to. Cable hasn't arrived yet, but should be here within the next week.This is going to be a test of my willpower. Not wanting to even unbox the ZAX till my birthday. The big question is...can I wait until then? Here are a couple of pics: Many thanks to LuckLZ store on Aliexpress for shipping this set out so fast. They were shipped out within 8 hours of me ordering them. Also got a bonus set of foamies included in the deal. Sweet!


----------



## voicemaster

courierdriver said:


> Just received my ZAX this afternoon. Only took 11 business days to arrive to me in Canada. I bought these as a gift to myself for my birthday, but my birthday isn't until middle of May. Also bought a XINHS balanced cable to connect this set to. Cable hasn't arrived yet, but should be here within the next week.This is going to be a test of my willpower. Not wanting to even unbox the ZAX till my birthday. The big question is...can I wait until then? Here are a couple of pics:


Its my birthday everytime new IEM coming in mail for me xD


----------



## courierdriver

voicemaster said:


> Its my birthday everytime new IEM coming in mail for me xD


Yup...feels like that for me too! Still, it's nice to unwrap something on your birthday...even if it's something you bought yourself.


----------



## chinmie

courierdriver said:


> Just received my ZAX this afternoon. Only took 11 business days to arrive to me in Canada. I bought these as a gift to myself for my birthday, but my birthday isn't until middle of May. Also bought a XINHS balanced cable to connect this set to. Cable hasn't arrived yet, but should be here within the next week.This is going to be a test of my willpower. Not wanting to even unbox the ZAX till my birthday. The big question is...can I wait until then? Here are a couple of pics: Many thanks to LuckLZ store on Aliexpress for shipping this set out so fast. They were shipped out within 8 hours of me ordering them. Also got a bonus set of foamies included in the deal. Sweet!



i think you should have an early birthday present, even the mailman think so too


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> There are lots of choices but KZ is also OEM for many of these brands so all in all KZ still gets the monies even if these brands succeed. Also, many times CCA acts as a prototype for KZ which allows them to test and get real world feedback. Especially in early days, CCA models seem like prototype for ZS and AS series. And then, they simply began rebranding existing KZ models, so this is also a win-win for them considering they're building a brand and sub-brand where both have loyal fan bases. This is a common practice in Chinese electronics market e.g. Xiaomi (Redmi and Poco), BBK (Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus), Huawei (honor) all follow this practice. This allows them to try and experiment and target users with specific needs.
> 
> With such an easy model of making reasonable money, they would hardly look for a VC. I may be wrong here but, with the turmoil in the global economy coupled with CCP's strong policies, VC investment doesn't look like a realistic scenario for them.
> 
> ...





Barusu Lamperouge said:


> There are lots of choices but KZ is also OEM for many of these brands so all in all KZ still gets the monies even if these brands succeed. Also, many times CCA acts as a prototype for KZ which allows them to test and get real world feedback. Especially in early days, CCA models seem like prototype for ZS and AS series. And then, they simply began rebranding existing KZ models, so this is also a win-win for them considering they're building a brand and sub-brand where both have loyal fan bases. This is a common practice in Chinese electronics market e.g. Xiaomi (Redmi and Poco), BBK (Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus), Huawei (honor) all follow this practice. This allows them to try and experiment and target users with specific needs.
> 
> With such an easy model of making reasonable money, they would hardly look for a VC. I may be wrong here but, with the turmoil in the global economy coupled with CCP's strong policies, VC investment doesn't look like a realistic scenario for them.
> 
> ...


Good to know FiiO’s rep actually commented on the DAP re-segmentation, hope they keep Android DAP series, I’ve been with FiiO since their plastic $8 E3 partable amps, and swapped op-amps of E5 back then.

I also had in same question of why KZ is still pursuing 30095s, with XUN DD of the one with DQ6, hope they come up with new challenges, like DQ6 based TWS.


----------



## 1clearhead

courierdriver said:


> Just received my ZAX this afternoon. Only took 11 business days to arrive to me in Canada. I bought these as a gift to myself for my birthday, but my birthday isn't until middle of May. Also bought a XINHS balanced cable to connect this set to. Cable hasn't arrived yet, but should be here within the next week.This is going to be a test of my willpower. Not wanting to even unbox the ZAX till my birthday. The big question is...can I wait until then? Here are a couple of pics: Many thanks to LuckLZ store on Aliexpress for shipping this set out so fast. They were shipped out within 8 hours of me ordering them. Also got a bonus set of foamies included in the deal. Sweet!


Happy birthday in advance!  
...Hope you like them very much!

-Clear


----------



## PROblemdetected

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> There are lots of choices but KZ is also OEM for many of these brands so all in all KZ still gets the monies even if these brands succeed. Also, many times CCA acts as a prototype for KZ which allows them to test and get real world feedback. Especially in early days, CCA models seem like prototype for ZS and AS series. And then, they simply began rebranding existing KZ models, so this is also a win-win for them considering they're building a brand and sub-brand where both have loyal fan bases. This is a common practice in Chinese electronics market e.g. Xiaomi (Redmi and Poco), BBK (Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus), Huawei (honor) all follow this practice. This allows them to try and experiment and target users with specific needs.
> 
> With such an easy model of making reasonable money, they would hardly look for a VC. I may be wrong here but, with the turmoil in the global economy coupled with CCP's strong policies, VC investment doesn't look like a realistic scenario for them.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with the phone part, my gf redmi4 for 2016 is more than capable to sound really good. Anyways, the quantity of new usb-dongles-dac make any phone in a really nice tool, and u can upgrade them with aunir, viper and jamesDSP...

Coule u share some info about that u said of FiiO and viper?


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 13, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> Just received my ZAX this afternoon. Only took 11 business days to arrive to me in Canada. I bought these as a gift to myself for my birthday, but my birthday isn't until middle of May. Also bought a XINHS balanced cable to connect this set to. Cable hasn't arrived yet, but should be here within the next week.This is going to be a test of my willpower. Not wanting to even unbox the ZAX till my birthday. The big question is...can I wait until then? Here are a couple of pics: Many thanks to LuckLZ store on Aliexpress for shipping this set out so fast. They were shipped out within 8 hours of me ordering them. Also got a bonus set of foamies included in the deal. Sweet!


Happy Birthday...hope you enjoy them.
I like them and I use them at bedtime and took my ZS10 Pro for work. I am pretty new to this newer world of Chi-Fi Iems...I dabbled years ago, now days $25 stretches way further.

I totally agree with what some have said here about buying too many of the budget models as it seems this would just be side grading.
The way these get pumped out, it is a chore to keep up.  I have never plugged any of these cheap iems into my big amplifiers as I really see no need and I mainly just use mine for bedtime or on the go. I really like the sound of the two KZ's that I have and I already have more Iem's that I need...that being said I would like to try a single DD, if I could find a nice small size...smaller than all that I own...I am just too lazy to keep trying them to find the right one, lol.
I applaud KZ for making some Iem's without the names and letters and such on the shells...that is my preferred look.

Enough rambling....happy Birthday and enjoy the music.


----------



## r31ya

sakt1moko said:


> Totally agree with the phone part, my gf redmi4 for 2016 is more than capable to sound really good. Anyways, the quantity of new usb-dongles-dac make any phone in a really nice tool, and u can upgrade them with aunir, viper and jamesDSP...
> 
> Coule u share some info about that u said of FiiO and viper?


Old Redmi series like my ol Redmi Note 3 pro has Amp in it.
It greatly help to push out the sound out of my IEMs.

The newer one like Redmi Note 5 ai didn't have one, it take serious step back in sound quality.
I ended buying DragonflyBlack just to compensate the sucky sound quality from Note 5 ai 3.5mm jack.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Apr 13, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Good to know FiiO’s rep actually commented on the DAP re-segmentation, hope they keep Android DAP series, I’ve been with FiiO since their plastic $8 E3 partable amps, and swapped op-amps of E5 back then.
> 
> I also had in same question of why KZ is still pursuing 30095s, with XUN DD of the one with DQ6, hope they come up with new challenges, like DQ6 based TWS.


Absolutely. I feel KZ has to experiment with new drivers and models especially in the mid-fi segment. I think they have maxed out that 30095 BA as folks haven't heard any difference of late from their IEMs. It's their DDs which are actual difference makers with EDX and DQ6.



sakt1moko said:


> Totally agree with the phone part, my gf redmi4 for 2016 is more than capable to sound really good. Anyways, the quantity of new usb-dongles-dac make any phone in a really nice tool, and u can upgrade them with aunir, viper and jamesDSP...
> 
> Coule u share some info about that u said of FiiO and viper?



The reason why Viper project was halted in 2017 was because Fiio had bought the tech to bundle it with Fiio X5 as an EQ effect. But since, the project was so popular that de Witt brothers decided to revive it with some success. You can read more here - https://m.facebook.com/vipersaudio/posts/1442237559181250

Till date, the driver tech which powers V4A is unknown to everyone bar Fiio and Viper500 as it is closed source.

Also, modding and rooting in Android will soon be dead as Google has started screwing around with the Safety Net. Ainur doesn't support A11 and JDSP too went closed source with their new drivers. This is the beginning of the end of rooting and modding in Android. Although I still run my Redmi Note 4 with Ainur+V4A on A10 and it serves me as a good spare DAP.

Edit - Corrected model name of Fiio DAP.


----------



## voicemaster

Its my birthday (jk)


----------



## Jitu13

voicemaster said:


> Its my birthday (jk)


lol, let me also hop on the train.


----------



## artatgray

courierdriver said:


> Just received my ZAX this afternoon. Only took 11 business days to arrive to me in Canada. I bought these as a gift to myself for my birthday



Happy Birthday in advance... 🎂🎈 🍦 🍷 🎉 😎 

I own the ZAX as well, by the way, and quite like them. Here's a little something to make your gift to yourself even nicer:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/KZ ZAX


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## AmericanSpirit

We 


Jitu13 said:


> lol, let me also hop on the train.


all got dark grey model😂


----------



## Jitu13

AmericanSpirit said:


> We
> 
> all got dark grey model😂


Ahem... great minds think alike 👀


----------



## Jamesom

Just received the DQ6, they is my first IEM with the newer "c type" connector.  Sadly using the stock cable I cant get a correct fit because of the angled connector.  I've swapped to the TRN M10 cable and the fit is perfect.   Anyone know of other C type cables that have a straight 2 pin connector?  I'd prefer an earhook and thicker cable but have not seen any. Thanks.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Apr 18, 2021)

.


----------



## courierdriver

Listening to the DQ6 now, using a Tripowin Zonie balanced cable, via 2.5 balanced output from my ES100 Dac/amp. Source is Samsung S20 ( with Bluetooth set to LDAC) with Spotify. The DQ6 is sounding great right now with this music:


----------



## Barndoor (Apr 14, 2021)

DQ6 is my first ChiFi IEM. I'm massively impressed by how good they are.
Replaced the cable with a Xinhs one from Ali.
Really nice cable for the price and comes with a nice carry case.
Makes a good improvement over the stock cable.


----------



## SiggyFraud

1clearhead said:


> Yea, all I can say is that CCA got it right with the CCA CSN.
> 
> Silver cables:
> Video game time, movie time, or just at the gym, go with the silver cables.
> ...


Thanks for all your great input! Between the DQ6 and CSN, which would you say is more suitable for genres such as black/death/thrash metal, or crust punk? Based on your posts in different threads and the fact that CSN uses a BA, which should work better with fast, complicated tracks, I feel like CCA might have a slight edge over KZ in this scenario.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ DQ6 rank A-.





It’s been a few years since I got a KZ and WOW, it is a great iem.


Tight, fast and well textured bass that’s fun because of the elevation but is clean because of the tightness and speed.

Mids are recessed giving it a V-shaped sound, but is very natural because of the timbre and tonality (although the tonality is leaning a bit more towards brightness, so some male vocals do need more warmth).

Treble, while it is very airy and the quantity isn’t too much for me, it is a bit unrefined and peaky. Which is the biggest weakness along with the technicalities (except soundstage) where it is actually good for this price, but doesn’t punch much higher (same level as the blon bl-03 (mesh mod)). Soundstage is very big though, probably the biggest soundstage you can get at this price and it definitely can rival stuff in the 100-200 usd range. Timbre is also very good along with coherency.







It is like a mini Fiio FD5 but a bit more recessed mids and more unrefined/peaky treble and technicalities arent in the same league. If you like the DQ6, the upgrade to it would be the FD5.


----------



## slex

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ DQ6 rank A-.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you rolled tips on DQ6 to counter the peaks? JVC dot ++ seems to counter that on my end.


----------



## RikudouGoku

slex said:


> Did you rolled tips on DQ6 to counter the peaks? JVC dot ++ seems to counter that on my end.


I am using the elecom ehp cap 20. Even the type e doesn't help it much. 

(I always tip roll)


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SiggyFraud said:


> Thanks for all your great input! Between the DQ6 and CSN, which would you say is more suitable for genres such as black/death/thrash metal, or crust punk? Based on your posts in different threads and the fact that CSN uses a BA, which should work better with fast, complicated tracks, I feel like CCA might have a slight edge over KZ in this scenario.


DQ6 is more impactful, and gives you a live house presentation with JBL speakers and marshall amps.


----------



## saldsald

You guys piqued my interest. So the CSN has the same 10mm DD as the DQ6?


----------



## SiggyFraud

AmericanSpirit said:


> DQ6 is more impactful, and gives you a live house presentation with JBL speakers and marshall amps.


Could you elaborate? Based on what I've read CSN is the darker sounding of the two, meaning it's bass is more accentuated, hence should have more impact. Or am I getting it wrong?


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## AmericanSpirit (Apr 14, 2021)

saldsald said:


> You guys piqued my interest. So the CSN has the same 10mm DD as the DQ6?


Yea from the backside shape of both unit, i’m pretty certain that’s XUN
tuning is very differen, DQ6 for U shape with some wet coloring on lower mid, CSN is slight W shape with very warm tuning and main focus on vocal range.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea from the backside shape of both unit, i’m pretty certain that’s XUN
> tuning is very differen, DQ6 for U shape with some wet coloring on lower mid, CSN is slight W shape with very warm tuning and main focus on vocal range.


Thanks! I might just get the CSN!


----------



## Podster (Apr 14, 2021)

Jitu13 said:


> Ahem... great minds think alike 👀



Indeed and it does no matter the make or model  And of course (IMO) the satin finishes are always the classiest


----------



## Barndoor

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ DQ6 rank A-.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice review. Completely agree with your assessment of the DQ6.

However, sometimes an unexpected synergy between equipment occurs that is completely unexplainable and addictive! I was rolling through my gear with the DQ6, pulled out my old Colorfly C4, which hardly sees the light of day and bam I am hooked! The soundstage is massive, different instruments have plenty of air around them. The attack is fast and tight. Yes, the treble is still peaky but not offensive. The mids aren't as recessed.

It's 10:30pm here and I'm rocking to ZZ Top's Tres Hombres on this set up. 

I've hardly taken my Focal Stellia off over the last year and feel a bit of an idiot for gushing over a set of iems that cost less than 30 bucks!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Barndoor said:


> Nice review. Completely agree with your assessment of the DQ6.
> 
> However, sometimes an unexpected synergy between equipment occurs that is completely unexplainable and addictive! I was rolling through my gear with the DQ6, pulled out my old Colorfly C4, which hardly sees the light of day and bam I am hooked! The soundstage is massive, different instruments have plenty of air around them. The attack is fast and tight. Yes, the treble is still peaky but not offensive. The mids aren't as recessed.
> 
> ...


(I dont call that a review lol, more of a short impression.)

It really is a great iem, regardless of price. Now we only have to wait and see if this was a fluke by KZ or if they can replicate and upgrade it with newer models.


----------



## Podster

AmericanSpirit said:


> We
> 
> all got dark grey model😂


Pewter Gray is probably my fave color in an iem






However even a Sintered Stainless Steel is a fine shade of gray





O Crappy-Ola, I'm in the KZ Thread Here ya go Gray Lovers


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Well, I am truly amazed at my recent accidental discovery and it dispels some of the myths which I had harboured in my head. The infamous 30095 BA is the BA used in BQEYZ KB100 and....it is placed in the nozzle!

Well, I wonder if Penon had released graphics like KZ/CCA does then would they be so successful/appreciated. Kudos to BQEYZ for doing a splendid tuning job and it proves that KZ still hasn't maxed out the capabilities of 30095 as of yet. The question arises why KZ doesn't try and utilize 30095 like Penon/BQEYZ has done. It is such a mature sounding set that my skepticism and disappointment has taken a deeper plunge that KZ with their years of experience aren't able to achieve that level smoothness+airiness from their most beloved BA.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 14, 2021)

SiggyFraud said:


> Thanks for all your great input! Between the DQ6 and CSN, which would you say is more suitable for genres such as black/death/thrash metal, or crust punk? Based on your posts in different threads and the fact that CSN uses a BA, which should work better with fast, complicated tracks, I feel like CCA might have a slight edge over KZ in this scenario.


Both the DQ6 and CSN can perform well with many genre's because of the quick and fast bass response while basically showing a good amount of detail and clarity. But, just remember that the DQ6 can be a little peaky towards the higher MID's and lower treble for the genre's you mentioned above to sound natural. So, you might want to play it safe and go with the CSN, since they have no problem with peaks and higher frequency disturbances. They both have similarities in both their sound signatures, but the CSN will not peak at all due to the incredibly well-tuned BA and DD the CCA team manage to accomplish for such a feat at a bargain price. And, though I have both, I am baffled how KZ and CCA would manage to sell the DQ6 and CSN for such a low price versus performance, which incredibly punches well above many more expensive earphones in the current market today. This today is a step up compared to what they were selling several years back. Somebody in their tuning department must be getting it right with a much better mature sounding signature, IMHO.


----------



## whirlwind

Podster said:


> Pewter Gray is probably my fave color in an iem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am a fan of the gray...I also really like the black


----------



## SiggyFraud

1clearhead said:


> Both the DQ6 and CSN can perform well with many genre's because of the quick and fast bass response while basically showing a good amount of detail and clarity. But, just remember that the DQ6 can be a little peaky towards the higher MID's and lower treble for the genre's you mentioned above to sound natural. So, you might want to play it safe and go with the CSN, since they have no problem with peaks and higher frequency disturbances. They both have similarities in both their sound signatures, but the CSN will not peak at all due to the incredibly well-tuned BA and DD the CCA team did to accomplish such a feat at a bargain price. And, though I have both, I am baffled how KZ and CCA would manage to sell the DQ6 and CSN for such a low price versus performance, which incredibly punches well above many more expensive earphones in the current market today. This today is a step up compared to what they were selling several years back. Somebody in their tuning department must be getting it right with a much better mature sounding signature, IMHO.


Thanks for taking the time to write such an extensive and helpful reply!
I'm about to pull the trigger on the CSN. It's hard to believe that they cost  only $ 14,49 on AE.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barndoor said:


> Nice review. Completely agree with your assessment of the DQ6.
> 
> However, sometimes an unexpected synergy between equipment occurs that is completely unexplainable and addictive! I was rolling through my gear with the DQ6, pulled out my old Colorfly C4, which hardly sees the light of day and bam I am hooked! The soundstage is massive, different instruments have plenty of air around them. The attack is fast and tight. Yes, the treble is still peaky but not offensive. The mids aren't as recessed.
> 
> ...


Haha that happened to me too, listening to full size large cans, actually requires energy. Like having a sapper at restaurant with dress code,  IEM like DQ6 comes in handy, very fast food experience but that burger is juicy!


----------



## MacAttack7

AmericanSpirit said:


> ...agree, ASX was a mistake..KZ still lacks linear phase tuning to make sound cohesive especially for ASX.


I still don't understand why people don't like the ASX, but maybe that's because I have no idea what linear phase tuning and a cohesive sound is.
They are one of my favorites, but I do admit all I have is budget stuff.....they were bought on a nice sale so they go into my budget category.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Tru


MacAttack7 said:


> I still don't understand why people don't like the ASX, but maybe that's because I have no idea what linear phase tuning and a cohesive sound is.
> They are one of my favorites, but I do admit all I have is budget stuff.....they were bought on a nice sale so they go into my budget category.


Trust your ears


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> I still don't understand why people don't like the ASX, but maybe that's because I have no idea what linear phase tuning and a cohesive sound is.
> They are one of my favorites, but I do admit all I have is budget stuff.....they were bought on a nice sale so they go into my budget category.


I also liked the ASX alot, but because of its size and enormous fin, it hurt my ears after awhile.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> I also liked the ASX alot, but because of its size and enormous fin, it hurt my ears after awhile.


I'd seriously be just fine if the ASX was the last IEM I ever bought and I had to use it forever.
I'm usually heavily influenced by reviews, and yet I still like it even with all the bad reviews out there.
I did get lucky as it fits my ears perfectly just like a custom IEM, so that's a big part of the reason I like it so much.
(I have the CCA CS16 too, and it does hurt my ears a bit as it's built slightly different.)


----------



## Twowheeler (Apr 15, 2021)

What about zsx vs dq6 for a beginner? Asked a more detailed question in the sub100 thread, but like to ask here too. I'm intrigued by the high-tech zsx (since people are excited about it and say it's better than the zs10pro if you have neither of them), but wonder if the qd6 might be a better start and allrounder. Neither of them is a bad buy I think, but as a first IEM id like to know which is better. The zxs was recommended to me and is high on a lot of lists, closely followed by the zs10pro. Dq6 seems newer and maybe a bit boring?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> I'd seriously be just fine if the ASX was the last IEM I ever bought and I had to use it forever.
> I'm usually heavily influenced by reviews, and yet I still like it even with all the bad reviews out there.
> I did get lucky as it fits my ears perfectly just like a custom IEM, so that's a big part of the reason I like it so much.
> (I have the CCA CS16 too, and it does hurt my ears a bit as it's built slightly different.)


I’d recommend find a used moondrop blessing2, that should come to some 100-200 usd range, blessing2 is what linear phasing is all about, and that’s the main reason why that $320 IEM is being hyped to be referred TOTL competitor.


----------



## MacAttack7

AmericanSpirit said:


> I’d recommend find a used moondrop blessing2, that should come to some 100-200 usd range, blessing2 is what linear phasing is all about, and that’s the main reason why that $320 IEM is being hyped to be referred TOTL competitor.


I forget what TOTL stands for but that's like an end-game IEM right? I would like to try one with that reputation just so I can possibly ruin my budget collection by hearing something a step above that makes me hate what I own. 

Would the Blessing2 be pretty foolproof if I wanted to try an end-game IEM one of these days?


----------



## RCracer777

Twowheeler said:


> What about zsx vs dq6 for a beginner? Asked a more detailed question in the sub100 thread, but like to ask here too. I'm intrigued by the high-tech zsx (since people are excited about it and say it's better than the zs10pro if you have neither of them), but wonder if the qd6 might be a better start and allrounder. Neither of them is a bad buy I think, but as a first IEM id like to know which is better. The zxs was recommended to me and is high on a lot of lists, closely followed by the zs10pro. Dq6 seems newer and maybe a bit boring?


Of the two the DQ6 has the better coherency, better cable and fits better in the ear. But it lags behind on technicality's and imaging. And the stock tips are rather bad.
The ZSX falls in this weird middle ground where it's slightly better than the ZN10 Pro due to the new DD but falls behind the ZAX which is a far more refined version of it. And with it's shell being larger than those two it might not fit as well. It also has a slight tendency to get shouty on some tracks.

You won't go wrong with either of them but if I had to chose between the two I'd get the DQ6. Even though I don't consider it a beginner IEM (Beginner IEM = everything you need is in the box) as you most likely will need to look for different tips, it is definitely the better of the two.

Personally I'd skip the ZSX and go for the ZAX, it's doesn't cost that much more and significantly better in sound quality, fitment, it has the same cable as the DQ6 and no issues with tips. It's the total package for about €6,- more. Between the ZAX and the DQ6 I'd get the ZAX but it is twice the price.

Other ones you might want to look at are the KBEAR KS1 and Lark. Two highly capable IEM's around the same price as the DQ6.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> I forget what TOTL stands for but that's like an end-game IEM right? I would like to try one with that reputation just so I can possibly ruin my budget collection by hearing something a step above that makes me hate what I own.
> 
> Would the Blessing2 be pretty foolproof if I wanted to try an end-game IEM one of these days?


Even with those class, I still love to try out new KZ/CCA IEMs, it’s more of like food, not that you eat $200 highest grade beef stake for every dinner, even after the stakes, bigmac still taste very good👍
but yes, you would definitely want to try the blessing2, it’s no brainer IEM for sub $1000. And yes TOTL stands for Top of the line, the flagships.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RCracer777 said:


> Of the two the DQ6 has the better coherency, better cable and fits better in the ear. But it lags behind on technicality's and imaging. And the stock tips are rather bad.
> The ZSX falls in this weird middle ground where it's slightly better than the ZN10 Pro due to the new DD but falls behind the ZAX which is a far more refined version of it. And with it's shell being larger than those two it might not fit as well. It also has a slight tendency to get shouty on some tracks.
> 
> You won't go wrong with either of them but if I had to chose between the two I'd get the DQ6. Even though I don't consider it a beginner IEM (Beginner IEM = everything you need is in the box) as you most likely will need to look for different tips, it is definitely the better of the two.
> ...


Agree and Lark recently got retuned “Lark 4K” version, out that may worth some attention too👍


----------



## Podster

MacAttack7 said:


> I still don't understand why people don't like the ASX, but maybe that's because I have no idea what linear phase tuning and a cohesive sound is.
> They are one of my favorites, but I do admit all I have is budget stuff.....they were bought on a nice sale so they go into my budget category.



Indeed as Ivisi says trust your ears and as subjective as this hobby is its really only about what sounds great to you and what makes you happy


----------



## courierdriver

Listening to my DQ6 at the moment (on the ES100 dac/amp), while my new ZAX and new XINHS balanced cable are burning in with music on my computer, using my Fiio Q1MK2. I can honestly say that the DQ6 is excellent for the price, based on my music library. It's one of those iems that punches way over its price range. Ymmv. It depends on your preferred sound signature. Personally, I like V-shaped and the DQ6 does it exceptionally well.


----------



## Twowheeler (Apr 16, 2021)

RCracer777 said:


> Of the two the DQ6 has the better coherency, better cable and fits better in the ear. But it lags behind on technicality's and imaging. And the stock tips are rather bad.
> The ZSX falls in this weird middle ground where it's slightly better than the ZN10 Pro due to the new DD but falls behind the ZAX which is a far more refined version of it. And with it's shell being larger than those two it might not fit as well. It also has a slight tendency to get shouty on some tracks.
> 
> You won't go wrong with either of them but if I had to chose between the two I'd get the DQ6. Even though I don't consider it a beginner IEM (Beginner IEM = everything you need is in the box) as you most likely will need to look for different tips, it is definitely the better of the two.
> ...


This is awesome! Thanks for the write-up. I learn something new everyday. Like you said: it seems like the zsx is in this weird no man's land. I guess this also eliminates the zs10pro? That can be has relatively cheap

So it seams it will either be the dq6 Vs kbear KS1 or Lark 4k. In terms of looks I think it will be lark Vs dq6.

The seller I want to buy for sells foam tips, and I will buy a case if I'll buy the dq6. That makes the comparison more fair.

Sounds like a good way to start. I looked at the zax, but can't justify spending that much on my first IEM. Maybe later if I'm in this hobby some more. Don't want to spend more than ≈ €30/35


----------



## saldsald (Apr 16, 2021)

Just a quick measurement of CSN (Blue) vs DQ6 (whatever colour that is)
Seems like the XUN driver is responsible for frequencies from 20 (or below) to around 4k
Very similar tuning by graph I say.

Edit: I like the CSN; the DQ6 isn't for me.

Edit 2: I find the CSN to be "faster" and less peaky and the mid range has a more energetic feel which I highly prefer. The bass has better quality and quantity also. Timbre is similar on both but the CSN has an edge here especially on strings and the bowing is so much clearer which is almost absent on the DQ6. I don't know the exact word to describe but the DQ6 has too much "reverb" for me making the sound unclear. However the DQ6 has better stage and more 3D sounding.

Edit 3: Still.....if the CSN can have a larger stage that would be better.


----------



## RCracer777

Twowheeler said:


> This is awesome! Thanks for the write-up. I learn something new everyday. Like you said: it seems like the zsx is in this weird no man's land. I guess this also eliminates the zs10pro? That can be has relatively cheap
> 
> So it seams it will either be the dq6 Vs kbear KS1 or Lark 4k. In terms of looks I think it will be lark Vs dq6.
> 
> ...


The DQ6 is a very good take on the KZ V shape. Works for most genres especially metal which is usually a stumbling block for IEM's. I got mine from SA audio which got me a free pack of 4 foam tips for about €17,- with coupons, about €22,- without.
The KS1 a V shaped set with emphasis on the bass. Most cohesive sounding of the bunch as it only has a single DD. It's like a younger sibling of the DQ6 if you'd ask me. Should cost around €15~20,- and is IMO the best single DD under €50,-. Don't discout it because of it's plainer looks. In High gloss piano black it's beautiful and in pure white it's downright gorgeous. But I can get the beauty of having a clear body and seeing the internals, it's my preference too.

The Lark is a very nice balanced set. My pair is a first batch so it's a OG Lark 4K and it's something to behold. It's too good for it's price point but so are the others in this comparison. Having that balanced sound means it sounds a lot more natural on most tracks compared to the others. It has less bass compared to them but it shows how much bass there actually is on the track instead of boosting it. And it's a well textured bass with a good extension. It does come with 7 pairs of tips (2 types in S, M and L and a duplicate pair of the grey M) and a case for about €26,-. But that case is €2,30 to get separately so can easily be added to any of them.

My ranking would be Lark 4K>DQ6=KS1 but I should warn you. If you're used to mainstream headphones/earbuds the Lark will be a culture shock as seems to lack a lot of bass compared to them. The KS1 is most like the mainstream gear and the DQ6 is somewhere in the middle of the two.


----------



## Twowheeler

RCracer777 said:


> The DQ6 is a very good take on the KZ V shape. Works for most genres especially metal which is usually a stumbling block for IEM's. I got mine from SA audio which got me a free pack of 4 foam tips for about €17,- with coupons, about €22,- without.
> The KS1 a V shaped set with emphasis on the bass. Most cohesive sounding of the bunch as it only has a single DD. It's like a younger sibling of the DQ6 if you'd ask me. Should cost around €15~20,- and is IMO the best single DD under €50,-. Don't discout it because of it's plainer looks. In High gloss piano black it's beautiful and in pure white it's downright gorgeous. But I can get the beauty of having a clear body and seeing the internals, it's my preference too.
> 
> The Lark is a very nice balanced set. My pair is a first batch so it's a OG Lark 4K and it's something to behold. It's too good for it's price point but so are the others in this comparison. Having that balanced sound means it sounds a lot more natural on most tracks compared to the others. It has less bass compared to them but it shows how much bass there actually is on the track instead of boosting it. And it's a well textured bass with a good extension. It does come with 7 pairs of tips (2 types in S, M and L and a duplicate pair of the grey M) and a case for about €26,-. But that case is €2,30 to get separately so can easily be added to any of them.
> ...


If all of the iem world is like this than I'm happy to jump in. What a great response! And it teaches me a lot. 

Your last point looks very important. I'm used to the m50x, which I guess is very mainstream. It does make me wonder what is possible in different sounds though. I can appreciate good sound, but need a workhorse first. A workhorse that sounds good! 

I guess the dq6 fits my needs more as a first buy. I'm risking not liking the sound of the larks, which would be a shame. My strategy should probably be: buy the dq6 as a stepping stone into the iem world and a piece that compliments my ATH-M50X and can be used everyday. It makes more sense if it's between the KS1 and the larks. Making it a nice step into the more serious direction. Probably a safer way to start. 

If I'm liking it or are curious for more. Than I'll probably go for the larks, to have something with a different sound. And the SAX after that, which should be higher end, and easier for me to appreciate after starting with the dq6. 

Well, call me surprised. I normally go for what's best in my price range. I thought that would be the zxs or zx10pro's. But after the enthusiastic response on the qd6, and your informative answers I'll buy the dq6 first and work from there. I guess it's not always necessary to go max what your budget can handle, but sometimes go under it.


----------



## G777

Twowheeler said:


> If all of the iem world is like this than I'm happy to jump in. What a great response! And it teaches me a lot.
> 
> Your last point looks very important. I'm used to the m50x, which I guess is very mainstream. It does make me wonder what is possible in different sounds though. I can appreciate good sound, but need a workhorse first. A workhorse that sounds good!
> 
> ...


I think the CCA CSN would be a safer bet as an all-rounder IEM. The DQ6 can be a bit fatiguing for me due to its peaks in the treble region.

The following post has the frequency response of both and it shows that the CSN is less peaky compared to the DQ6. From 2kHz and below they seem very similar.


saldsald said:


> Just a quick measurement of CSN (Blue) vs DQ6 (whatever colour that is)
> Seems like the XUN driver is responsible for frequencies from 20 (or below) to around 4k
> Very similar tuning by graph I say.
> 
> ...


----------



## Twowheeler

G777 said:


> I think the CCA CSN would be a safer bet as an all-rounder IEM. The DQ6 can be a bit fatiguing for me due to its peaks in the treble region.
> 
> The following post has the frequency response of both and it shows that the CSN is less peaky compared to the DQ6. From 2kHz and below they seem very similar.


Thanks! But too late. Already ordered the DQ6. Curiouw what they'll bring. For the price: there's not much to go wrong. We'll see! Chose the Grey version


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> Just a quick measurement of CSN (Blue) vs DQ6 (whatever colour that is)
> Seems like the XUN driver is responsible for frequencies from 20 (or below) to around 4k
> Very similar tuning by graph I say.
> 
> ...


If you happened to have an 8 core copper cable, try swapping it with the CSN's current cable, then you'll get the larger soundstage you'll need.
Cheers! 


-Clear


----------



## AmericanSpirit

1clearhead said:


> If you happened to have an 8 core copper cable, try swapping it with the CSN's current cable, then you'll get the larger soundstage you'll need.
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> -Clear


Is that new KZ cable series pink copper? Good to hear that, I may try get the cable,


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> Just a quick measurement of CSN (Blue) vs DQ6 (whatever colour that is)
> Seems like the XUN driver is responsible for frequencies from 20 (or below) to around 4k
> Very similar tuning by graph I say.
> 
> ...


Great to see measurements! So CSN is warm W-shaped with the main focus on vocal it seems!  CCA maxed out tuning a single KZ30095 it seems!
I see CCA also tuned 2k peak to elaborate footsteps for FPS gamers.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Just posted a quick comparison between KB Ear Lark and CCA CSN here


----------



## RCracer777

Twowheeler said:


> If all of the iem world is like this than I'm happy to jump in. What a great response! And it teaches me a lot.


You're welcome  
Always happy to help a newcomer, especially a fellow Dutchman (or woman idk). I was in your shoes about 2 years ago myself.
If you have any more questions just ask anyone (in the appropriate tread, be it your own or brand/subject specific) or if you want you can send me a PM. I don't know much but I can help with most of the basics.

But sadly not the entire IEM world is like this, there are some faction wars going on. But most here like me want nothing to do with that and just enjoy the gear we have.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> Great to see measurements! So CSN is warm W-shaped with the main focus on vocal it seems!  CCA maxed out tuning a single KZ30095 it seems!
> I see CCA also tuned 2k peak to elaborate footsteps for FPS gamers.


Haven't heard CSN, I may get it soon. But so far, if anyone has maxed out 30095 BA then it is BQEYZ with KB100. The BA is placed inside nozzle as well and yet it's not at all harsh or suffers from peaky treble. It even has fantastic tonality and timbre.


----------



## saldsald

1clearhead said:


> If you happened to have an 8 core copper cable, try swapping it with the CSN's current cable, then you'll get the larger soundstage you'll need.
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> -Clear


Never use those stock cables. I already tried with an 8 core copper balanced cable made by Yin- yoo. I have quite a few cables laying around will do some rolling later.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Great to see measurements! So CSN is warm W-shaped with the main focus on vocal it seems!  CCA maxed out tuning a single KZ30095 it seems!
> I see CCA also tuned 2k peak to elaborate footsteps for FPS gamers.


I didn't know that 2k peak is for elaborating footsteps! I find the CSN ok for instruments too, the tone is quite believable with good dynamic.


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## saldsald

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Haven't heard CSN, I may get it soon. But so far, if anyone has maxed out 30095 BA then it is BQEYZ with KB100. The BA is placed inside nozzle as well and yet it's not at all harsh or suffers from peaky treble. It even has fantastic tonality and timbre.


The BA is not placed inside the nozzle for the CSN actually.


----------



## Wgibson

Quick observation about the ZAX, and sorry if this has already been discussed. But:

1) All the BAs are without a nozzle, that can reduce the mid/high frequency response peaks.
2) The impedance is dead flat, compared to an all BA C16, which has big impedance swings.

I think most previous KZ and CCA used BAs with the nozzles still on...


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

saldsald said:


> The BA is not placed inside the nozzle for the CSN actually.


Yes I know. The point being usually BA in nozzle leads to painful treble experience but it's not the case in KB100. I was trying to imply that BQEYZ has probably pushed 30095s capabilities to the limit by eliminating all the harshness that is usually associated with the driver. CSN maybe much more sweeter sounding but I don't have it as of now but impressions by others suggest they have done a great job with tuning it


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## saldsald (Apr 17, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Yes I know. The point being usually BA in nozzle leads to painful treble experience but it's not the case in KB100. I was trying to imply that BQEYZ has probably pushed 30095s capabilities to the limit by eliminating all the harshness that is usually associated with the driver. CSN maybe much more sweeter sounding but I don't have it as of now but impressions by others suggest they have done a great job with tuning it


Looking at the measurements of the DQ6 and CSN, I think that XUN driver is probably a full frequency driver with no pass filter. The 30095 and also the two 6mm drivers in the DQ6 are tuned to compliment the XUNs only and that's why zero harshness can be achieved with the CSN since it is tuned that there is less contribution by the 30095 while there is more contribution of the final sound by the 6mm making the DQ6 peaky. I may just mess with the circuit board to verify this.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

saldsald said:


> Looking at the measurements of the DQ6 and CSN, I think that XUN driver is probably a full frequency driver with no pass filter. The 30095 and also the two 6mm drivers in the DQ6 are tuned to compliment the XUNs only and that's why zero harshness can be achieved with the CSN since it is tuned that there is less contribution by the 30095 while there is more contribution of the final sound by the 6mm making the DQ6 peaky. I may just mess with the circuit board to verify this.


Looking forward to hearing your impressions. It will be fascinating as many folks malign the driver for KZ's sound but in truth it maybe that's how KZ wants to tune this driver.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been quite enjoying the KZ ZAX listening to an album at bedtime. I burn mine in while listening, so they may even get better sounding, but work great for what I use them for.


----------



## courierdriver

Compared the ZAX to the DQ6 tonight; along with the Fearless S8P. The S8P has excellent separation but I find it a bit lacking in bass impact. Both the DQ6 and ZAX do bass better, imho. Still, the S8P has much better separation and smoother details. But, this is an expensive set. I'm enjoying both the ZAX and DQ6  right now.  More impressions will come soon.


----------



## moisespr123

My first impressions of the DQ6:

https://moisescardona.me/kz-dq6-unboxing-and-first-impressions/


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## saldsald (Apr 19, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Never use those stock cables. I already tried with an 8 core copper balanced cable made by Yin- yoo. I have quite a few cables laying around will do some rolling later.


I swapped the 8 core copper litz for the black cable I mentioned in my post and that's only the 2nd cable I tried with the CSN, gotta say I am really impressed by the combination!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ng-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/post-16267961
Those DQ6 lovers should really get a pair ! And thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## profusion




----------



## Twowheeler

RCracer777 said:


> You're welcome
> Always happy to help a newcomer, especially a fellow Dutchman (or woman idk). I was in your shoes about 2 years ago myself.
> If you have any more questions just ask anyone (in the appropriate tread, be it your own or brand/subject specific) or if you want you can send me a PM. I don't know much but I can help with most of the basics.
> 
> But sadly not the entire IEM world is like this, there are some faction wars going on. But most here like me want nothing to do with that and just enjoy the gear we have.


Thanks! Than you probably know about aartjan too. I've read his ZSX review Here, and that's what got me wanting that IEM. His blog also made me do more research, which is how I ended with the DQ6. I knew about this forum from a few years ago, but never actively participated. Good to know there are fellow dutchies around here. I see you have quite the collection as well.

I really like listening to music, I just never though serious enough about it to go further on the devices that I use to enjoy music. Which is weird, I love tech and mechanics. And I love knowing why things work (or sound in this case) the way they do.

I'm happy I went with the DQ6 though. Seems like a rounded device, and from my research so far I understand it will stay kind of special since it's a 3DD design. If this whole IEM world keeps me interested (which I think it will) then i'll probably go for something like the KZ Zax, or the V90S (when on sale). Or who knows, maybe that zs10pro or Zsx will end up in my hands anyway.


----------



## homesickmadmax

I am hearing some annoying hiss with my DQ6 on my Sony NW-A55 on low volume and also on my Galaxy S9. Is it normal? Should I burn them before using them?


----------



## profusion

homesickmadmax said:


> I am hearing some annoying hiss with my DQ6 on my Sony NW-A55 on low volume and also on my Galaxy S9. Is it normal? Should I burn them before using them?


Give me a song to check? I hear also some harsh treble peaks but only on some specific songs.


----------



## homesickmadmax

profusion said:


> Give me a song to check? I hear also some harsh treble peaks but only on some specific songs.


I have other IEM's and none are doing this hiss sound. For example: Fleetwood Mac, Go your own way (24bits); Michael Jackson, Money.

Maybe they are too sensitive for my players? It is also doing this in my PC.

Thanks


----------



## profusion (Apr 20, 2021)

@homesickmadmax, I played Fleetwood Mac, Go your own way, but I cannot hear any hiss there and I'm treble sensitive so I would notice?! (on 60% volume on iPhone 12)

What tips you are using, hope not the stock ones and they are quite bad and changing the sound?

PS
I had them burn for a 60-70h

I have notice some treble peaks sounds but not on that song you mention (for example the female vocals "s", "sh" on Should have seen it coming, by AETHO)


----------



## homesickmadmax

profusion said:


> @homesickmadmax, I played Fleetwood Mac, Go your own way, but I cannot hear any hiss there and I'm treble sensitive so I would notice?! (on 60% volume on iPhone 12)
> 
> What tips you are using, hope not the stock ones and they are quite bad and changing the sound?
> 
> ...


Wow thank you for that detailed answer, appreciated. I have some foam tips. I ordered good tips on aliexpress but it takes ages to arrive.  Do you hear something when pausing the music? Like "SHHHHHHH" All my Iem's are totally silent, except my new DQ6 so that is why I asked. 

I will wait for other tips and burn them a bit.


----------



## profusion (Apr 20, 2021)

No, no SHHH when pausing, switching between songs, or when within the song have silence. At least with my iPhone+Apple dongle+Spotify.... (+XINHS 8 core cable and some better tips)

Maybe also other owners of DQ6 can comment?


----------



## Twowheeler (Apr 20, 2021)

Cable with or without microphone?

My dq6 are on their way. Ordered with microphone, so than I can check.


----------



## MacAttack7

homesickmadmax said:


> Wow thank you for that detailed answer, appreciated. I have some foam tips. I ordered good tips on aliexpress but it takes ages to arrive.  Do you hear something when pausing the music? Like "SHHHHHHH" All my Iem's are totally silent, except my new DQ6 so that is why I asked.
> 
> I will wait for other tips and burn them a bit.


I don't hear anything out of the ordinary with my DQ6 with an iPod Touch.
Well actually I do hear a little bit of crackling and popping from time to time when no music is playing.

Now if I plug my earphones into my cheap Creative desktop speakers which have an earphone port on the speaker there is a hissing sound with and without music. The earphones are basically unusable in this case. I'm not sure why that is.


----------



## G777

homesickmadmax said:


> Wow thank you for that detailed answer, appreciated. I have some foam tips. I ordered good tips on aliexpress but it takes ages to arrive.  Do you hear something when pausing the music? Like "SHHHHHHH" All my Iem's are totally silent, except my new DQ6 so that is why I asked.
> 
> I will wait for other tips and burn them a bit.


Probably has to do with the microphone cable (grounding issues?). Happened to me on my CCA C10 until I replaced the cable.


----------



## baskingshark

homesickmadmax said:


> I am hearing some annoying hiss with my DQ6 on my Sony NW-A55 on low volume and also on my Galaxy S9. Is it normal? Should I burn them before using them?





MacAttack7 said:


> I don't hear anything out of the ordinary with my DQ6 with an iPod Touch.
> Well actually I do hear a little bit of crackling and popping from time to time when no music is playing.
> 
> Now if I plug my earphones into my cheap Creative desktop speakers which have an earphone port on the speaker there is a hissing sound with and without music. The earphones are basically unusable in this case. I'm not sure why that is.



For @homesickmadmax  When music plays does the hiss go away? I don't have the DQ6. But it has a sensitivity of 112dB/mW, which I would consider as rather high. This high sensitivity may explain *hissing* with certain sources, especially cheaper DACs found in smartphones and computers.

There's a few ways about it:
1) Use an inline volume controller - can be gotten at a few bucks from shops. Just max the phone/computer sound volume and fine tune the volume distally at the inline volume controller.
2) Use an Impedance adapter - may skew sound signature, so beware.
3) Get another Amp/DAC that has good noise floor control.

Options 1 and 2 may affect the sound quality.


----------



## courierdriver

profusion said:


> No, no SHHH when pausing, switching between songs, or when within the song have silence. At least with my iPhone+Apple dongle+Spotify.... (+XINHS 8 core cable and some better tips)
> 
> Maybe also other owners of DQ6 can comment?


Got Newbee foam tips on mine, running balanced 2.5mm from my ES100. No SHHHH sound here either. Even maxed out the volume (with music paused, of course) at over 139 db. Background noise isn't audible; at least not on my setup.


----------



## courierdriver (Apr 21, 2021)

So, I've been doing alot of listening to the DQ6, ZS10 pro and ZAX over the past week. Just wanted to share a few words and impressions. This is not a review. This is just me, as a fellow headfier; sharing my personal thoughts.
I've had the ZS10 PRO for almost 2 years now, and until recently, it was one of my favorite iems in my collection. I've bought, traded and won many iems within the past 2 years. The ZS10 PRO was always in my top 3. I recently received the DQ6 and ZAX. I've been comparing the 3 for a couple of weeks now, so I think I've finally figured out some of the differences.
Compared to the ZAX and DQ6, the ZS10 PRO is a bit less refined; but not as  much as much as some people make it out to be. I don't find as " mettalic" as some claim it to be. A bit bright, but I wouldn't say it's mettalic sounding.
ZAX, compared to ZS10 PRO, is a smoother and more detailed step up. Everything is just as detailed; but a smoother rendering. Biggest difference is the soundstage. Incredible for the price and a definite upgrade to ZS10 PRO. Still, I won't give up the ZS10 PRO. It's a bit raw sounding, but still great.
The DQ6 is a bit closer to ZAX, but it's got a special and different sound signature. As I said in a previous post; the DQ6 has an organic, vinyl type sound that's highly addictive. It's warm, yet detailed. Stage is good; with decent width and depth. Sure, there are other iems that might do it better; but they would cost more; and I'm not sure they could bring that warm, detailed, vinyl goodness like the DQ6.

The  DQ6 is an exceptional set and should be on any music lover's radar. The tonality, stage, vinyl like sound and inexpensive price are bonuses. For less than $30, this set is a great deal, and well worth the $. That's just my 2 cents though. Everyone's got different preferences and hearing. Personally, I think the DQ6 is excellent and highly enjoyable with the music in my library.
Been listening to alot of stuff, but tonight I'm jamming some blues:


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 21, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> So, I've been doing alot of listening to the DQ6, ZS10 pro and ZAX over the past week. Just wanted to share a few words and impressions. This is not a review. This is just me, as a fellow headfier; sharing my personal thoughts.
> I've had the ZS10 PRO for almost 2 years now, and until recently, it was one of my favorite iems in my collection. I've bought, traded and won many iems within the past 2 years. The ZS10 PRO was always in my top 3. I recently received the DQ6 and ZAX. I've been comparing the 3 for a couple of weeks now, so I think I've finally figured out some of the differences.
> Compared to the ZAX and DQ6, the ZS10 PRO is a bit less refined; but not as  much as much as some people make it out to be. I don't find as " mettalic" as some claim it to be. A bit bright, but I wouldn't say it's mettalic sounding.
> ZAX, compared to ZS10 PRO, is a smoother and more detailed step up. Everything is just as detailed; but a smoother rendering. Biggest difference is the soundstage. Incredible for the price and a definite upgrade to ZS10 PRO. Still, I won't give up the ZS10 PRO. It's a bit raw sounding, but still great.
> ...



Thanks for your impressions...I may have to try the DQ6 instead of the KBEAR KS1...I really like the ZAX.

Where does the DQ6 fall as far as size , fit and comfy level to the ZS10 Pro and ZAX ?

Oh, and that is a killer album you are listening to!


----------



## homesickmadmax

Thank you everyone for your feedbacks! I tried the DQ6 plugged in my portable amp(FIIO A5)+Sony NW-A55 and no hiss at all. Maybe the noise floor of my DAP is too high for these sensitive IEM, I don't know. 

For me, the size and comfort are great on the DQ6. The sound too.


----------



## homesickmadmax

The more I listen to them, the more I love them. 

It is weird, I feel like these DQ6 (30$) sounds better than my 1MORE triple driver (80$). Am I crazy?


----------



## RikudouGoku

homesickmadmax said:


> The more I listen to them, the more I love them.
> 
> It is weird, I feel like these DQ6 (30$) sounds better than my 1MORE triple driver (80$). Am I crazy?


No, the DQ6 is a great iem. I prefer it to a few iems in the 300 usd range.


----------



## ChrisOc

homesickmadmax said:


> The more I listen to them, the more I love them.
> 
> It is weird, I feel like these DQ6 (30$) sounds better than my 1MORE triple driver (80$). Am I crazy?


You are not, at all crazy and if you are, so am I. They are highly competent IEMs. 

I have had mine for less than a week and I think I like them.....very much!


----------



## KutuzovGambit

ChrisOc said:


> You are not, at all crazy and if you are, so am I. They are highly competent IEMs.
> 
> I have had mine for less than a week and I think I like them.....very much!


Someone explain to me how DQ6 has any right to sound as good as it does for $20. Kinda feel like an idiot tbh for having spent so much on other IEMs...


----------



## IEMusic

Glad to see all the DQ6 excitement and “hype” has been justified.  Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to have had the raw, unbridled, unrealistic hype that some IEMs have received, yet even though not all people really like it, it seems everyone respects it on some level.


----------



## IEMusic

KutuzovGambit said:


> Someone explain to me how DQ6 has any right to sound as good as it does for $20. Kinda feel like an idiot tbh for having spent so much on other IEMs...


So what’s your take on DQ6 vs 3DT?


----------



## KutuzovGambit

IEMusic said:


> So what’s your take on DQ6 vs 3DT?


Too early with the DQ6 to tell, especially since I’m still spending a lot of time with the 3DT. But initial impressions are that it does share a certain intangible similarity, and gets a whole lot closer to the 3DT than the price differential gives any reason to expect. The main weaknesses seem to be on technicalities, especially imaging and details, but the overall sound signature is quite similarly mature. I’m looking forward to listening to them more this week!


----------



## voicemaster

IEMusic said:


> Glad to see all the DQ6 excitement and “hype” has been justified.  Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to have had the raw, unbridled, unrealistic hype that some IEMs have received, yet even though not all people really like it, it seems everyone respects it on some level.


Its because of the price. The higher the price, the stricter people will judge. Thankfully, the DQ6 is not only cheap but sounds really good. Having a triple DD setup is also pretty good selling point when compared to CSN for having normal hybrid setup.


----------



## ChrisOc

KutuzovGambit said:


> Someone explain to me how DQ6 has any right to sound as good as it does for $20. Kinda feel like an idiot tbh for having spent so much on other IEMs...


I will invert your question in my attempt to answer it. Should the question be: how do we have the right  (or rather opportunity) to buy the DQ6 at $20?

In my view it is pure fluke, quite apart from others' point of view that KZ has the principle that, "if you throw enough mud at the wall some of it will stick", or similar analogy, which others have used. The question here is who are their products aimed at? I firmly believe their products are primarily aimed at the Chinese Market. In the commercial sense we (outside China) probably represent a small percentage of the business KZ does. When you have a potential audience of 1.4 Billion in your local market, you do not need to aim elsewhere first, in my view, we are firmly secondary.

I believe, the multiple KZ and CCA BA sets were aimed at the Chinese market and in many instances the tuning reflects that, but also the prices reflect the target market. 

Moving on to the materials, I believe that the least costly materials for earphones are the BA and Dynamic Drivers. Having used multiple BAs, there is no harm in using multiple Dynamic drivers as the unit cost can be maintained.

Which brings us to the KZ DQ6 specifically, I believe the mid-bass would have been harder hitting if the primary aim was to market the DQ6 to those of us outside China, do not get me wrong, I like the bass balance in favour of sub-bass, that is my preference. In my view, the tuning was not aimed at those of us outside China, but more importantly, the prices were not either.

I do not believe that had KZ envisaged the DQ6 would be anywhere as close to the 3DT in sound quality, we would be paying the prices we are paying for the DQ6. Yes, the principle of, "pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap" would still apply, but at $35 to $50 not $20.

That, in my view, is why we have the opportunity to buy the DQ6 at $20....pure fluke that we like the tuning, which was not originally intended for those of us who are not KZ's main target audience.

These being my first KZ earphones, please do not misunderstand me, I am sure KZ has produced some good and even exceptional offerings, all I am saying is that KZ is a commercial entity, it would have asked for more money, if they thought, at the outset, that they could get a higher price for the sound quality of their product, the DQ6.


----------



## IEMusic

KutuzovGambit said:


> Too early with the DQ6 to tell, especially since I’m still spending a lot of time with the 3DT. But initial impressions are that it does share a certain intangible similarity, and gets a whole lot closer to the 3DT than the price differential gives any reason to expect. The main weaknesses seem to be on technicalities, especially imaging and details, but the overall sound signature is quite similarly mature. I’m looking forward to listening to them more this week!


After having both for a while now, those are pretty much my impressions on the 2 IEMs.  The 3DT is technically quite a bit better and more refined, but it also has more prominent upper mids and lower treble in stock form.   The DQ6 has more bass, with more of a V-shaped tuning, but a mature V-shape, w/o significantly recessed mids.  The more intangible similar characteristics are why I often recommend that people try the DQ6 before buying the 3DT if possible.


----------



## courierdriver

whirlwind said:


> Thanks for your impressions...I may have to try the DQ6 instead of the KBEAR KS1...I really like the ZAX.
> 
> Where does the DQ6 fall as far as size , fit and comfy level to the ZS10 Pro and ZAX ?
> 
> Oh, and that is a killer album you are listening to!


It's funny you mention the KS1...I received that set last week but haven't listened to it yet because I'm still waiting for the 2.5mm TFZ connector XINHS balanced cable to arrive that I bought for it. Once I get it and everything is connected and I've had some time with them, I'll post more impressions. Maybe a shootout comparison between ZS10 PRO, ZAX, DQ6, KS1 and Blon BL03.
I personally don't have any problems with the fit of the DQ6 and listened to them last night for almost 5 hours. They are definitely thicker than ZAX or ZS10 PRO, but I think they are actually more comfortable than the aforementioned 2. Still, everyone's ears are different. It's weird because I always thought that my ears were small, but when I got into iems I discovered I can actually get stuff that I previously thought would be too big, easily into my ears. Still, the DQ6 might be a bit large for some. 
As far as the King King tunes; yes, sir! *Discovered this artist on the "What are you listening to right now" thread here on headfi. Can't stop listening! *


----------



## courierdriver

IEMusic said:


> Glad to see all the DQ6 excitement and “hype” has been justified.  Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to have had the raw, unbridled, unrealistic hype that some IEMs have received, yet even though not all people really like it, it seems everyone respects it on some level.


For my music library (which is quite diverse and all over the map), the DQ6 is incredibly good. Thank you so much for recommending this set and sending me a set as part of our recent trade. Imho, the SQ is well worth the hype.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

courierdriver said:


> For my music library (which is quite diverse and all over the map), the DQ6 is incredibly good. Thank you so much for recommending this set and sending me a set as part of our recent trade. Imho, the SQ is well worth the hype.


@IEMusic has steered me and I’m sure a lot of other people right on a pretty regular basis... DQ6 being no exception!


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## ScrofulousBinturong

MacAttack7 said:


> I still don't understand why people don't like the ASX, but maybe that's because I have no idea what linear phase tuning and a cohesive sound is.
> They are one of my favorites, but I do admit all I have is budget stuff.....they were bought on a nice sale so they go into my budget category.


If you like it, it's good. It really is that simple.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong (Apr 21, 2021)

Twowheeler said:


> What about zsx vs dq6 for a beginner? Asked a more detailed question in the sub100 thread, but like to ask here too. I'm intrigued by the high-tech zsx (since people are excited about it and say it's better than the zs10pro if you have neither of them), but wonder if the qd6 might be a better start and allrounder. Neither of them is a bad buy I think, but as a first IEM id like to know which is better. The zxs was recommended to me and is high on a lot of lists, closely followed by the zs10pro. Dq6 seems newer and maybe a bit boring?


I have both and like both. The DQ6, however, is my preferred option because the frequencies are more balanced, the mids (esp. male vocals) are greatly superior, and the sound stage is more spacious. I'd recommend the DQ6 as a starter unless you want more of an accentuated bass.

If you buy the DQ6 you also need after market eartips (I use blue BGVPs) and a replacement cable. It's one of those rare situations where EVERYBODY agrees the stock tips ruin the sound and the cable is a tangly mess. Get a 16-core TRN cable for $10 in whatever color makes you happy and you're potentially set for life. Don't worry about the cable material affecting the sound--it can't and won't. Buy whatever 8- or 16-core cable you like.


----------



## sutosuto

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> If you buy the DQ6 you also need after market eartips (I use blue BGVPs)


I am using BGVPs, A08 (blue one) too. After tips rolling, I find they are good match for me.


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## ScrofulousBinturong

KutuzovGambit said:


> Someone explain to me how DQ6 has any right to sound as good as it does for $20. Kinda feel like an idiot tbh for having spent so much on other IEMs...


You're not an idiot for not buying the DQ6 before they existed.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

ChrisOc said:


> the principle that, "if you throw enough mud at the wall some of it will stick",


Isn't that what fancier IEM manufacturers call "years of intense research and development"?


----------



## baskingshark

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Isn't that what fancier IEM manufacturers call "years of intense research and development"?



Not if the paying consumer are the beta testers and guinea pigs!


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

baskingshark said:


> Not if the paying consumer are the beta testers and guinea pigs!


Fair enough, though when you're paying $1,000+ for Andromedas and the like, you're not paying for parts and labor for that one IEM--with KZ you'd just have 40 pairs


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## ChrisOc

courierdriver said:


> For my music library (which is quite diverse and all over the map), the DQ6 is incredibly good. Thank you so much for recommending this set and sending me a set as part of our recent trade. Imho, the SQ is well worth the hype.


Yes, a big THANK YOU to @IEMusic for the recommendation! You have a good nose ears! 🦻🦻


----------



## whirlwind

courierdriver said:


> It's funny you mention the KS1...I received that set last week but haven't listened to it yet because I'm still waiting for the 2.5mm TFZ connector XINHS balanced cable to arrive that I bought for it. Once I get it and everything is connected and I've had some time with them, I'll post more impressions. Maybe a shootout comparison between ZS10 PRO, ZAX, DQ6, KS1 and Blon BL03.
> I personally don't have any problems with the fit of the DQ6 and listened to them last night for almost 5 hours. They are definitely thicker than ZAX or ZS10 PRO, but I think they are actually more comfortable than the aforementioned 2. Still, everyone's ears are different. It's weird because I always thought that my ears were small, but when I got into iems I discovered I can actually get stuff that I previously thought would be too big, easily into my ears. Still, the DQ6 might be a bit large for some.
> As far as the King King tunes; yes, sir! *Discovered this artist on the "What are you listening to right now" thread here on headfi. Can't stop listening! *


Thanks for your info and I will wait patiently for your comparison of ZS10 PRO, ZAX, DQ6, KS1 and Blon BL03.
Nice to know that the TFZ cables will fit KS1

I have no trouble with the fit hardly ever in my left ear the right ear never fits as good.

I have 6 King King albums and all are very good, I love Alan Nimmo's  playing and singing...the live album is probably my favorite.
My favorite guitar player that wears a kilt


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## Twowheeler (Apr 22, 2021)

Is there a cable suitable for the DQ6 that has mic and volume buttons? I'm about to recieve mine, but understand the mic cable I ordered it with only has one button.

Edit: went with the MIC cable because it made the set more flexible. But wonder if it makes any difference quality wise. I believe the mic is a seperate cable and ring on the 3.5mm plug, so it shouldn't hurt the sound bit. Correct me if i'm wrong.


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## MacAttack7

I was reading some Japanese comments on Twitter yesterday (using google translate), and saw a couple mentions that the KZ ASX may have been revised from the first batch that went out, and the sound signature may be improved. Is there any truth to that? 
I'd like to buy another pair because they are just about the perfect fit & sound for my ears. 
I have no idea what batch I have or if that even matters....may just be a rumor.


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## PhonoPhi (Apr 22, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> I was reading some Japanese comments on Twitter yesterday (using google translate), and saw a couple mentions that the KZ ASX may have been revised from the first batch that went out, and the sound signature may be improved. Is there any truth to that?
> I'd like to buy another pair because they are just about the perfect fit & sound for my ears.
> I have no idea what batch I have or if that even matters....may just be a rumor.


I got two pairs of ASX, both sound similar to me; for both I replaced their narrow nozzle with a wider one from ZSN and likes.
The modified ASX is my ultimate IEM: it does everything for me - almost bass-head BA bass for me, noticeably present mids (while perhaps a bit U or V) and very resolving but quite gentle treble.


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## IEMusic

whirlwind said:


> ....comparison of ZS10 PRO, ZAX, DQ6, KS1 and Blon BL03.


This just makes me realize how spoiled we are right now with amazingly good budget options.


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## AmericanSpirit (Apr 23, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> This just makes me realize how spoiled we are right now with amazingly good budget options.


Agreed. 15 years ago, it was more of UE($3-400), Shure($2-600), Westone($2-600), Etymotic($300), Sony($100-1000), JVC($300), AudioTechnica($50-400), AKG($200), choice, then Sennheiser jumped in with another $5,600 expensive toys. I had to sell my kidney and eye, cut food expenditures to stay with the hobby(lol)  HifiMan was still called Head-Direct(more of a retailer like today's Linsoul), making some goodie but cheap looking earbuds. 

And all those are now sounding subpar or par with sub$50 segments.

Great Chi-fi enlightenment. I thought those old players would compete but they all retreated except for Sony, and partly JVC.


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## hmscott (Apr 22, 2021)

Twowheeler said:


> Is there a cable suitable for the DQ6 that has mic and volume buttons? I'm about to recieve mine, but understand the mic cable I ordered it with only has one button.
> 
> Edit: went with the MIC cable because it made the set more flexible. But wonder if it makes any difference quality wise. I believe the mic is a seperate cable and ring on the 3.5mm plug, so it shouldn't hurt the sound bit. Correct me if i'm wrong.


I always order without a Mic because the FiiO BTR5 has a Mic built in.  Also, I don't need a Mic for desktop use, plugged in to my Topping A90 / Xduoo TA-20.

Logically adding wires and a switch complicates the build whether it sounds worse or not why take the chance?  If you think you need a Mic order a Mic, otherwise it usually adds a $1/$2 to the cost (more?).

Even though I usually only use the stock wire initially, and then I decide whether to use OCC Copper, Silver plate, or pure silver cable - depending on what I have extra at that time - how the new IEM sounds on each cable,  and usually it is KBEAR as it is solid built and not too expensive:
https://hifigo.com/collections/head...pin-mmcx-qdc-connector?variant=31122971131953
https://hifigo.com/collections/head...with-2pin-mmcx-qdc-tfz?variant=32250238435377
https://hifigo.com/collections/head...th-metal-2pin-mmcx-qdc?variant=31605483634737
https://hifigo.com/products/kbear-4...-with-2pin-qdc-mmc-tfz?variant=32250235355185
https://hifigo.com/products/kbear-w...er-plated-silver-cable?variant=39411934462126

Hifigo doesn't have these new sku's yet, but if you ask nicely support@hifigo.com they can list new items for you and I find ordering from Hifigo gets things here (SFO) quicker than AliExpress - especially using AliExpress shipping options, yipe!  And, the AliExpress DHL / Fedex is often far too expensive as compared to Express options Hifigo:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001972905496.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.11.13e95de6XnUpdJ
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001722934298.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.7.11a35de61XVX3L
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002304138824.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.23.11a35de6wJXVuV
https://kbear.aliexpress.com/store/...11a35de6PDTwnr&origin=n&SortType=new_desc&g=y

So, in short, I would find an option that doesn't include using your cable or IEM's  for phone calls.  I much prefer the BTR5 or some of my Tranya IEM's, like the T10's - still waiting for my T10b's to show up... darned pandemic! (Shakes fist at nothing in particular), I've been waiting since March 9th!! Sigh...

You could ask to see if you can order your favorite IEM with both the Mic/no Mic, or order another with whichever cable option you don''t have - I usually order a backup or two of the IEM's/TWS's I really like.


----------



## baskingshark

MacAttack7 said:


> I was reading some Japanese comments on Twitter yesterday (using google translate), and saw a couple mentions that the KZ ASX may have been revised from the first batch that went out, and the sound signature may be improved. Is there any truth to that?
> I'd like to buy another pair because they are just about the perfect fit & sound for my ears.
> I have no idea what batch I have or if that even matters....may just be a rumor.



Very possible, I wouldn't be surprised about a stealth retune TBH. KZ has history doing that in the past - eg KZ ZS6 was retuned without them telling the consumers.
Other CHIFI secretly change drivers inside eg Urbanfun or change the shell (eg Tingo TC200), all of which can affect the sound signature.

Another possibility is unit variation, CHIFI isn't the most robust when it comes to QC so perhaps someone measuring 2 sets may find a difference on graphs due to unit variation.


----------



## Joseph Lin

I just received Cayin C9 a few days ago, and have been testing it with my other high end headphones. Out of curiosity I plugged KZ Zax to it and I am surprised how good it sounds. I did not realize Zax has sub-bass, deep, deep sub-bass, like those in the live concert or floor standing speaker kind of bass. It "vibrates" in your brain. The mid and treble becomes so realistic, clean, crisp. C9 totally transforms Zax to a mid/high end IEM. It is so unbelievable!


----------



## slex

Joseph Lin said:


> I just received Cayin C9 a few days ago, and have been testing it with my other high end headphones. Out of curiosity I plugged KZ Zax to it and I am surprised how good it sounds. I did not realize Zax has sub-bass, deep, deep sub-bass, like those in the live concert or floor standing speaker kind of bass. It "vibrates" in your brain. The mid and treble becomes so realistic, clean, crisp. C9 totally transforms Zax to a mid/high end IEM. It is so unbelievable!


At that price, it better be good☺️


----------



## courierdriver

AmericanSpirit said:


> Agreed. 15 years ago, it was more of UE($3-400), Shure($2-600), Westone($2-600), Etymotic($300), Sony($100-1000), JVC($300), AudioTechnica($50-400), AKG($200), choice, then Sennheiser jumped in with another $5,600 expensive toys. I had to sell my kidney and eye, cut food expenditures to stay with the hobby(!?)
> 
> And all those are now sounding subpar or par with sub$50 segments.
> 
> Great Chi-fi enlightenment. I thought those old players would compete but they all retreated except for Sony, and partly JVC.


Agreed. I wouldn't have been able to continue with the hifi hobby, if not for Chi-fi. In fact, I lost interest and stayed away for over 10 years, because of the high prices that western companies were charging. I'm so happy that I can again afford to buy great sounding stuff. Honestly, it was Chi-fi that brought me back.


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## AmericanSpirit (Apr 23, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> Agreed. I wouldn't have been able to continue with the hifi hobby, if not for Chi-fi. In fact, I lost interest and stayed away for over 10 years, because of the high prices that western companies were charging. I'm so happy that I can again afford to buy great sounding stuff. Honestly, it was Chi-fi that brought me back.


Yes, same reason I lost the interest, after seeing Shure releasing $900 and AKG releasing an IEM cost a grant, with Knowles and sonion BA drivers that cost $25/piece max...so $250 + $50 housing and crossover, remaining 70% goes to marketing, logistics, R&D, capital investment? Hmmm, the accounting did not make any sense to me anymore.  I felt 30% goes to the pocket of the already a rich guy's pocket  And with those pricing only 5% of worlds rich population could afford, a "right to enjoy a good quality of music", the rest of 95% remained in dark, which I felt an injustice was taking place.

I had little hope that big names like Senn would stay competitive with serious commitment & large capitals infused, sadly that simply did not take place. Only a countable few small boutiques popped up to fill the "once a legend" UE gap, so we have no serious large capitals eager to compete anymore. That's the sad part, as it seems it's now only China's domestic competition is taking place. Surely there are small German/Japanese/American boutiques, but not as seriously involved, except for Sony. I once worked for Sony, in the entertainment segment though, so I'm a bit feeling proud of them still not giving it up to the competition on high-end, but for sub $100 market, and even sub $1k, it sure feels the world power is shifting toward east.


----------



## seanwee

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yes, same reason I lost the interest, after seeing Shure releasing $900 and AKG releasing an IEM cost a grant, with Knowles and sonion BA drivers that cost $25/piece max...so $250 + $50 housing and crossover, remaining 70% goes to marketing, logistics, R&D, capital investment? Hmmm, the accounting did not make any sense to me anymore.  I felt 30% goes to the pocket of the already a rich guy's pocket  And with those pricing only 5% of worlds rich population could afford, a "right to enjoy a good quality of music", the rest of 95% remained in dark, which I felt an injustice was taking place.
> 
> I had little hope that big names like Senn would stay competitive with serious commitment & large capitals infused, sadly that simply did not take place. Only a countable few small boutiques popped up to fill the "once a legend" UE gap, so we have no serious large capitals eager to compete anymore. That's the sad part, as it seems it's now only China's domestic competition is taking place. Surely there are small German/Japanese/American boutiques, but not as seriously involved, except for Sony. I once worked for Sony, in the entertainment segment though, so I'm a bit feeling proud of them still not giving it up to the competition on high-end, but for sub $100 market, and even sub $1k, it sure feels the world power is shifting toward east.


High end iems are still mostly considered "boutique" items, hence the pricing. And also iems are mostly priced as high as they can sell them. Even if they don't sound nearly as good as the price suggests.

Theres also a sort of "pressure" to put a high end price tag on an iem you plan to compete with other high end iems otherwise it doesn't get the same recognition. Imagine if the blessing 2 was sold as a kilobuck iem, its sound quality definitely puts it in that tier yet nobody even considers it to be a competitor to kilobuck iems because of its price which relagates it to being a "midrange" iem.

Since theres no objective or empirical way to determine if one iem is "better" than the other, thats just how the audio market is. Overpriced junk and undervalued gems.


----------



## whirlwind

IEMusic said:


> This just makes me realize how spoiled we are right now with amazingly good budget options.


It enables me to listen to iem's that don't break the bank. I do all of my main listening from my full size headphones as I much prefer those.
I still like the iem's for bedtime listening and for on the go like vacation, walks and such.


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## AmericanSpirit (Apr 23, 2021)

seanwee said:


> High end iems are still mostly considered "boutique" items, hence the pricing. And also iems are mostly priced as high as they can sell them. Even if they don't sound nearly as good as the price suggests.
> 
> Theres also a sort of "pressure" to put a high end price tag on an iem you plan to compete with other high end iems otherwise it doesn't get the same recognition. Imagine if the blessing 2 was sold as a kilobuck iem, its sound quality definitely puts it in that tier yet nobody even considers it to be a competitor to kilobuck iems because of its price which relagates it to being a "midrange" iem.
> 
> Since theres no objective or empirical way to determine if one iem is "better" than the other, thats just how the audio market is. Overpriced junk and undervalued gems.


Yea no objection to some IEM that’s made of pure gold and costs $25k USD, or boutique IEM cost $6k, a half the price of luxury car audio system. It scatters with overpriced junk and undervalues gems on the array od subjectivity.

Oh hey blessing2 still can trade blows for its midrange! Just not as competitive as its $320 price tag.

My point is, I’m happy that now some chifi companies are able to tackle those once called high-end quality of product with mid&low price offering, presenting competitive market pressure to high-end market for their raison detre. That’s a healthy fair market competition, so high-end market need to react to either invest more to push the boundaries.

The greatest happiness to the greatest number is taking place👍 I’m just happy to see there is new pressure to push the market, not necessarily denying the niche market.

Back in 2010, that pressure did not exist, the speed of innovation was slow, so why not just salute and welcome more competitions? I'd like to see some old legends to stand up again.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea no objection to some IEM that’s made of pure gold and costs $25k USD, or boutique IEM cost $6k, a half the price of luxury car audio system. It scatters with overpriced junk and undervalues gems on the array od subjectivity.
> 
> Oh hey blessing2 still can trade blows for its midrange! Just not as competitive as its $320 price tag.
> 
> ...


I agree with your points here. If not for Chi-fi, I and many young folks like me wouldn't even dare stepping their toes in the world of audio gear. Because nowadays, anyone with $20 can find a set of IEM that will blow them away. Further more to setup a good sounding rig portable/desktop wouldn't take more than $100-150. Also, Chi-fi is bringing quality audio in developing countries where avg income is not as high as the Western countries. For example, in my native currency if I want to buy Andromeda it will cost me ~₹90-100k which is like 3-4 months salary for an average salaried individual. I paid over $100 (my 5 years worth of savings as a student+a portion of my first salary) to purchase Sennheiser Momentum as my 'Hi-Fi' audio purchase, before stumbling upon ED9 and ZSN subsequently.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

Ok I may be wrong because I’m working from memory but if the mids on the DQ6 were just a little fuller it might very well beat the FH3. Crazy stuff. KZ really knocked it out of the park.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

KutuzovGambit said:


> Ok I may be wrong because I’m working from memory but if the mids on the DQ6 were just a little fuller it might very well beat the FH3. Crazy stuff. KZ really knocked it out of the park.


XUN unit is something! Out-of limitations, KZ came up with physical acoustic chambers. It also benefits to CCA CSN, it has pretty full mids✌️


----------



## 1clearhead

KutuzovGambit said:


> Ok I may be wrong because I’m working from memory but *if the mids on the DQ6 were just a little fuller it might very well beat the FH3*. Crazy stuff. KZ really knocked it out of the park.


Then, if that's what you're looking for, you must get the CCA CSN!...This is your answer! 

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead

AmericanSpirit said:


> XUN unit is something! Out-of limitations, KZ came up with physical acoustic chambers. It also benefits to CCA CSN, it has pretty full mids✌️


+1


----------



## ChristianM

KZ released a new Gold, Silver & Copper mixed cable, it looks really nice, I haven't found any review yet maybe because it's released lately.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

I'm gonna buy a new IEM and maybe this cable later this year, I was thinking about ZAX but because KZ & CCA release new IEMs every year so I'll wait and see what they come up with this year.


----------



## peskypesky

whirlwind said:


> It enables me to listen to iem's that don't break the bank. I do all of my main listening from my full size headphones as I much prefer those.
> I still like the iem's for bedtime listening and for on the go like vacation, walks and such.


I'm the same. Listen with headphones most of the time, unless I'm taking a walk or on the go.


----------



## whirlwind

peskypesky said:


> I'm the same. Listen with headphones most of the time, unless I'm taking a walk or on the go.


I have the Sansa Clip+ also and so does my wife, she uses it for workouts.  Such a nice device considering how small it is....the size is so nice.

I have upgraded it so I can listen to my DSD files on the go, but I won't get rid of it.


----------



## Barndoor (Apr 24, 2021)

ChristianM said:


> KZ released a new Gold, Silver & Copper mixed cable, it looks really nice, I haven't found any review yet maybe because it's released lately.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
> 
> I'm gonna buy a new IEM and maybe this cable later this year, I was thinking about ZAX but because KZ & CCA release new IEMs every year so I'll wait and see what they come up with this year.



That cable was discussed on Discovery thread.


----------



## Barndoor (Apr 24, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Forgot to mention this cable from KZ:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
> 
> ...


I've got one on order. To have in next week or so


----------



## AmericanSpirit

ChristianM said:


> KZ released a new Gold, Silver & Copper mixed cable, it looks really nice, I haven't found any review yet maybe because it's released lately.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
> 
> I'm gonna buy a new IEM and maybe this cable later this year, I was thinking about ZAX but because KZ & CCA release new IEMs every year so I'll wait and see what they come up with this year.


Still ZAX is best offer from KZ, IMO, second best offer is DQ6, EDX/CSN/ZSN Pro X.

As KZ is now more into TWS development, they may stick with ZAX for a while, maybe  , maybe not.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> Still ZAX is best offer from KZ, IMO, second best offer is DQ6, EDX/CSN/ZSN Pro X.
> 
> As KZ is now more into TWS development, they may stick with ZAX for a while, maybe  , maybe not.


Considering the X series was the Terminator or the End-game. Maybe they're done with hybrids for now by launching all X-series IEMs. I won't be surprised if they don't launch any wired IEMs this year. I think except BA series all others have got their X versions. One of the products they're launching is a BT20S competitor and hybrid TWS.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Considering the X series was the Terminator or the End-game. Maybe they're done with hybrids for now by launching all X-series IEMs. I won't be surprised if they don't launch any wired IEMs this year. I think except BA series all others have got their X versions. One of the products they're launching is a BT20S competitor and hybrid TWS.


😨 ahh that makes sense.... X as to cross the line😭 I took it as “extreme” but yes it also means it could end the journey.  Hope KZ get their BAX done with all things learned.  
Maybe next time we see KZ releasing new wires is when Bellsing finally able to make EST drivers, so KZ may come up with tribrids with $100 offer💪


----------



## Nimweth

AmericanSpirit said:


> 😨 ahh that makes sense.... X as to cross the line😭 I took it as “extreme” but yes it also means it could end the journey.  Hope KZ get their BAX done with all things learned.
> Maybe next time we see KZ releasing new wires is when Bellsing finally able to make EST drivers, so KZ may come up with tribrids with $100 offer💪


Yes BA10-X would be nice, so would ZS7 - X!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Just to let people know, I was looking at some aliexpress store, and noticed DQ6 is now affordable around $20USD!
Also it seems before it was only silver/grey, but now KZ added Black model which is temping for me to order a second pair..
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKC0mUp


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Still ZAX is best offer from KZ, IMO, second best offer is DQ6, EDX/CSN/ZSN Pro X.
> 
> As KZ is now more into TWS development, they may stick with ZAX for a while, maybe  , maybe not.


I actually prefer the CSN over the CKX and therefore the ZAX. Really surprised by the CSN!


----------



## InvisibleInk

AmericanSpirit said:


> but now KZ added Black model which is temping for me to order a second pair..


You wouldn't be the first to do something like that. I have two versions of the QKZ VK4.


----------



## seanwee

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea no objection to some IEM that’s made of pure gold and costs $25k USD, or boutique IEM cost $6k, a half the price of luxury car audio system. It scatters with overpriced junk and undervalues gems on the array od subjectivity.
> 
> Oh hey blessing2 still can trade blows for its midrange! Just not as competitive as its $320 price tag.
> 
> ...





Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I agree with your points here. If not for Chi-fi, I and many young folks like me wouldn't even dare stepping their toes in the world of audio gear. Because nowadays, anyone with $20 can find a set of IEM that will blow them away. Further more to setup a good sounding rig portable/desktop wouldn't take more than $100-150. Also, Chi-fi is bringing quality audio in developing countries where avg income is not as high as the Western countries. For example, in my native currency if I want to buy Andromeda it will cost me ~₹90-100k which is like 3-4 months salary for an average salaried individual. I paid over $100 (my 5 years worth of savings as a student+a portion of my first salary) to purchase Sennheiser Momentum as my 'Hi-Fi' audio purchase, before stumbling upon ED9 and ZSN subsequently.


I would get the Blessing 2 Dusk but I'm still waiting for the Crinacle x KZ collaboration IEM. Would be interesting to see if more oem chinese drivers vs (supposedly) better quality branded drivers would result in better sound.

That and the targeted sub 100 dollar price point would make it even better value than the B2 dusk which was already a significantly better value buy than the Fearless dawn


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

seanwee said:


> I would get the Blessing 2 Dusk but I'm still waiting for the Crinacle x KZ collaboration IEM. Would be interesting to see if more oem chinese drivers vs (supposedly) better quality branded drivers would result in better sound.
> 
> That and the targeted sub 100 dollar price point would make it even better value than the B2 dusk which was already a significantly better value buy than the Fearless dawn


That would be interesting but KZ is nowhere close to the type of sound Crinacle likes. It would be interesting nonetheless but that would exclusively be targeted towards their Western consumers. KZ as we all know is more or less focused on the local domination. Ideally what I'd like KZ to do is create a single DD or single BA with a different spin on their house sound with price under $100. Something like Moondrop is doing with Aria and Starfield.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Apr 25, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> That would be interesting but KZ is nowhere close to the type of sound Crinacle likes. It would be interesting nonetheless but that would exclusively be targeted towards their Western consumers. KZ as we all know is more or less focused on the local domination. Ideally what I'd like KZ to do is create a single DD or single BA with a different spin on their house sound with price under $100. Something like Moondrop is doing with Aria and Starfield.


Haha right, seeing his comment on KZ IEMs  on his list, it’s more than obvious he is spending 10% of his attention to
Most of KZ iems for serious A/B testing. I bet actual listning session for those KZs are actually less than his ordinary routine tests(my bet is 10min vs 10 hours). About a time for KZ to finally stick with one or few house sound for tonal consistency, they’ve thrown enough gadgets to the market for assessment.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> Haha right, seeing his comment on KZ IEMs  on his list, it’s more than obvious he is spending 10% of his attention to
> Most of KZ iems for serious A/B testing. I bet actual listning session for those KZs are actually less than his ordinary routine tests(my bet is 10min vs 10 hours). About a time for KZ to finally stick with one or few house sound for tonal consistency, they’ve thrown enough gadgets to the market for assessment.


Hopefully. Maybe what we find inconsistent is what KZ defines as it's house sound. Lol. Hope they create something which is genuinely top tier stuff.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Hopefully. Maybe what we find inconsistent is what KZ defines as it's house sound. Lol. Hope they create something which is genuinely top tier stuff.


Yes, “some new toys that users are eager to try on” is what driving KZ at this moment, more like a root box “some gems! Among many OK/soso one, bursts fullauto and some would hit someone’s bullseye 🎯 “. DQ6 seemed to be their latest bullseye, now I’m hoping they update EDX with XUN unit😆


----------



## peskypesky

whirlwind said:


> I have the Sansa Clip+ also and so does my wife, she uses it for workouts.  Such a nice device considering how small it is....the size is so nice.
> 
> I have upgraded it so I can listen to my DSD files on the go, but I won't get rid of it.


I used to have a Sansa Clip+, but I lost it. By far my favorite DAP ever. So small and lightweight.

I'll never understand why they stopped making it and replaced it with inferior models.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yes, “some new toys that users are eager to try on” is what driving KZ at this moment, more like a root box “some gems! Among many OK/soso one, bursts fullauto and some would hit someone’s bullseye 🎯 “. DQ6 seemed to be their latest bullseye, now I’m hoping they update EDX with XUN unit😆


Now that would be interesting. Considering they're already using a XUN in CSN at $15. EDX Pro at $13-15. I think we should stop giving them ideas to protect our wallets 😂


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Just made a quick comparison over sub$30 segments, 8 of QKZ iems are incoming on ship but it may take 2 months.


----------



## seanwee

AmericanSpirit said:


> Just made a quick comparison over sub$30 segments, 8 of QKZ iems are incoming on ship but it may take 2 months.


Very interesting way of rating and ranking IEMS! I love it

Do you have a site where I can see all of the iems you've ranked so far?


----------



## guido

KZ ZAX with the FiiO UTWS3 have an amazing synergy...match mad in heaven at less money than all the higher end  true wireless offerings


----------



## AmericanSpirit

seanwee said:


> Very interesting way of rating and ranking IEMS! I love it
> 
> Do you have a site where I can see all of the iems you've ranked so far?


Unfortunately, I used to run a Japanese review blog but now I’m semi-retired, only sharing reviews thru head fi now.

I probably will put the spreadsheet on google document once it’s populated👍

Currently, working on Moondrop series(Aria2/Starfield/KXXS/Blessing2 OG & Dusk) , and KBEAR Starsea, and one new version of Starsea that KBEAR sent to me for review(not sure about details, maybe it’s Starshine?).


----------



## RikudouGoku

AmericanSpirit said:


> Unfortunately, I used to run a Japanese review blog but now I’m semi-retired, only sharing reviews thru head fi now.
> 
> I probably will put the spreadsheet on google document once it’s populated👍
> 
> Currently, working on Moondrop series(Aria2/Starfield/KXXS/Blessing2 OG & Dusk) , and KBEAR Starsea, and one new version of Starsea that KBEAR sent to me for review(not sure about details, maybe it’s Starshine?).


Yeah, sounds like a good idea to put it on google sheets. 





Personally, I would put the iems on the left rows and the factors on the top columns. Easier to read that way and better when you got more iems in the list.

Well, if you need help with google sheets, feel free to PM me. I am the expert here with that after all.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, sounds like a good idea to put it on google sheets.
> 
> 
> Personally, I would put the iems on the left rows and the factors on the top columns. Easier to read that way and better when you got more iems in the list.
> ...


Thanks senpai!
Haha yes that horizontal presentation is only for 3 or 4 comparison one-pager, if it gets to the list, I’d put IEMs on vertical array, and factors to horizontal👍


----------



## alamnp

AmericanSpirit said:


> Unfortunately, I used to run a Japanese review blog but now I’m semi-retired, only sharing reviews thru head fi now.
> 
> I probably will put the spreadsheet on google document once it’s populated👍
> 
> Currently, working on Moondrop series(Aria2/Starfield/KXXS/Blessing2 OG & Dusk) , and KBEAR Starsea, and one new version of Starsea that KBEAR sent to me for review(not sure about details, maybe it’s Starshine?).


yes please review KBear Starshine, wanting to buy, but it's $500 and not available on Amazon


----------



## alamnp

AmericanSpirit said:


> Thanks senpai!
> Haha yes that horizontal presentation is only for 3 or 4 comparison one-pager, if it gets to the list, I’d put IEMs on vertical array, and factors to horizontal👍


Btw can you also include what source you are pairing them to? each IEMs react differently to different sources


----------



## alamnp

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, sounds like a good idea to put it on google sheets.
> 
> 
> Personally, I would put the iems on the left rows and the factors on the top columns. Easier to read that way and better when you got more iems in the list.
> ...



what source are you using? DQ6 on BTR5 high gain has piercing treble... while KS1 on BTR5 high gain has very good resolutions and one of the best timbre under $100


----------



## ephrank

Looking at KZ AS12 recently. Seems to be a nice sounding IEMs with more refined sound signature (*not* aggresively V-shaped)

Shound I get AS12, or consider the newer KZ models? I'm looking for all-BA IEMs with no vents for maximum noise isolation.


----------



## PhonoPhi

ephrank said:


> Looking at KZ AS12 recently. Seems to be a nice sounding IEMs with more refined sound signature (*not* aggresively V-shaped)
> 
> Shound I get AS12, or consider the newer KZ models? I'm looking for all-BA IEMs with no vents for maximum noise isolation.


The answer depends on your preference for the treble.
The treble is quite heavily filtered on AS12. It leaves one of the best bass and reasonably mids (if you are not into overtones). Many love this sound signature. Some finds it a bit less natural.
Other than this C16 (not CA16 which is different) may be a reasonable choice along this line, C16 are mid-centric with thick rich mids.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

alamnp said:


> what source are you using? DQ6 on BTR5 high gain has piercing treble... while KS1 on BTR5 high gain has very good resolutions and one of the best timbre under $100


I used BTR5 with high gain, apodization 1(this brings best resolution), and all IEMs were tested with same AZLA Xelastec M size ear tips for this test.
I find EDX has better resolution under same condition unless KZ1 has notable unit variations.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Apr 26, 2021)

ephrank said:


> Looking at KZ AS12 recently. Seems to be a nice sounding IEMs with more refined sound signature (*not* aggresively V-shaped)
> 
> Shound I get AS12, or consider the newer KZ models? I'm looking for all-BA IEMs with no vents for maximum noise isolation.


I have AS12, yes among KZ line up it is a clean/warm sounding IEM. Unfortunately KZ back in time was inexperienced in designing  the crossover circuits , which resulted overlapping tonal inconsistencies, tonality wise it’s good, technicalities it’s subpar. And I agree with above CA16 has same mild and mellow sound, mid-centric, if not CS16, it’s newer of KZ family and they started to accumulate the learnings.


----------



## ephrank

@PhonoPhi and @AmericanSpirit ,

Thanks for the recommendations. Unfortunately CA16, C16 seem both have vents (bass ports). My primary use case is commuting, so I need as much noise isolation as possible.

Unless, of course, if CA16 can provide the same level of noise isolation, then I'd consider them. From the review photos I can't see vents on AS10 / AS12.

What about AS12 vs. CA16 vs. AS10? Mainly listening to female vocal indie rock/pop. I prefer a slightly warm signature. Not treble sensitive but the CA16's 6KHz is tiny but makes me worry a little bit.


----------



## SoundChoice

ephrank said:


> Looking at KZ AS12 recently. Seems to be a nice sounding IEMs with more refined sound signature (*not* aggresively V-shaped)
> 
> Shound I get AS12, or consider the newer KZ models? I'm looking for all-BA IEMs with no vents for maximum noise isolation.


The AS10 is a good all-BA model with good isolation, warm signature, nice fit.


----------



## ephrank

Thanks @SoundChoice  I did some search on this thread, leaning towards AS12 at the moment.


----------



## RikudouGoku

alamnp said:


> what source are you using? DQ6 on BTR5 high gain has piercing treble... while KS1 on BTR5 high gain has very good resolutions and one of the best timbre under $100


Schiit Asgard 3, yeah, a 200 usd amp on a 22 usd iem hahahha.   

(its what I am mainly using right now so...)


----------



## PhonoPhi (Apr 27, 2021)

ephrank said:


> @PhonoPhi and @AmericanSpirit ,
> 
> Thanks for the recommendations. Unfortunately CA16, C16 seem both have vents (bass ports). My primary use case is commuting, so I need as much noise isolation as possible.
> 
> ...


C16 are older (different from CA16 and CS16), C16 shell is the same and is in between AS12 and AS10 - a zinc outer part like AS12 but plastic nozzles as in AS10.
I thought to recommend AS10 as well, I really like it, it is the first all-BA KZ and nice warm, but still resolving IEM. Some good measure of the AS10 value is that its price is still not much lower than original $45 after 3+ years.


----------



## richario

ephrank said:


> @PhonoPhi and @AmericanSpirit ,
> 
> Thanks for the recommendations. Unfortunately CA16, C16 seem both have vents (bass ports). My primary use case is commuting, so I need as much noise isolation as possible.
> 
> ...


What source are you using? I have AS10 and AS12, I personally prefer the AS10 - warm sound, great BA bass, and clear but rolled off treble. It plays very well with smartphones or my TRN BT20s pro adapters, whereas the AS12 need a bit more power to shine. The AS12 lose some of the warmth and add a greater degree of treble. I actually find the AS10 a little more comfortable as the nozzle on the AS12 is larger, both isolate really well.


----------



## ephrank

Thanks for the AS10 recommendations @richario and @PhonoPhi . Several hours ago, I pulled the trigger on AS12. In the unlikely case that something is seriously wrong with them, I'll get the AS10.



richario said:


> What source are you using?



My main source is Shanling M3s DAP. Low output impedance.


----------



## riodgarp

ah well I understood that dq6 isn't for deep insertion like etymotic or my old broken rose mini 2, but I can't have any options because the neighbors are too noisy especially this month, I've to use triflange like it or not.. or maybe there is tips that same level of isolation, not the foamy, I'm not patient enough to roll my eartips into my ear canal haha


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Apr 27, 2021)

Guys, Aliexpress Tech Mania Sale day is coming in hours.

I decided to place an order for ZSN Pro X and first AptX compatible KZ TWS, SKS. What makes unique for SKS is that KZ chose not to use their 30095 BA, instead using the rather rare 30017, which is being used for ZAX, as SKS’s sole BA+DD, simple config. Battery life gets better from old 90min max to 180min max. Also it’s just my jinx, that non-numbered KZ/CCA IEMs usually hits my spot, so hopefully this jinx is true.


----------



## deltecdpa (Apr 27, 2021)

About Zs-10 (non pro)  that I use for jogging... I tried to check if vents got blocked by dirt after long time using them this way

Using a magnifyng lens I found A and B obstructed, using a thin needle I opened them, but I think I broke that white layer underneath the A vent, that I guess half-closes the vent. Then I went jogging and... Where is the bass?? Much lesser! So I tried to cover one or more vents, this is what happened:
No cover - weak, anemic bass
B-C covered - a bit more bass, but still missing a lot
A covered - Welcome back thick bass!
A-B-C covered - Thick but lose subbass depth.
A-B or A-C covered... better to leave B-C both opened!
Ok, cover A only and go to run 😊


----------



## Sebulr

I still use my zs10 on occasion I still rate them. Didn't realise they were vents. I might have to have a play around with them myself. I often use blu tack to mess with vents to see if it effects the tuning, am I the only one?


----------



## alamnp (Apr 27, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> I used BTR5 with high gain, apodization 1(this brings best resolution), and all IEMs were tested with same AZLA Xelastec M size ear tips for this test.
> I find EDX has better resolution under same condition unless KZ1 has notable unit variations.



nice, will try Apo 1, I used all stock tips. DQ6 distort a bit on high gain IMO. I don't have EDX, that would be crazy if it beats KS1.
KS1 to me even better sounding than Tripowin and ZS10Pro. One of the best timbre for sub $50. Tight bass punch, I do agree on Iphone the bass both mid and sub sound wonky.

Also the newer KZ and CCA to compete with mid-tier IEM, IMO subpar... FOR NOW, I just want for all in one, ready to go, out of the box IEM. KZ and CCA despite the price closer to $100, you still need tips/cables rolling.

For the next couple of IEMs, after Believe and LZ A7, I might stick to KBear or CCA. After KZ ZAX, there are no worth mentioning IEM from KZ (I don't mind paying a bit extra, just don't want pokemons anymore)


----------



## Sebulr

alamnp said:


> nice, will try Apo 1, I used all stock tips. DQ6 distort a bit on high gain IMO. I don't have EDX, that would be crazy if it beats KS1.
> KS1 to me even better sounding than Tripowin and ZS10Pro. One of the best timbre for sub $50. Tight bass punch, I do agree on Iphone the bass both mid and sub sound wonky.
> 
> Also the newer KZ and CCA to compete with mid-tier IEM, IMO subpar... FOR NOW, I just want for all in one, ready to go, out of the box IEM. KZ and CCA despite the price closer to $100, you still need tips/cables rolling.
> ...


Interesting. I'm gonna have do a comparison between my ks1 and kz zs10 pro now. I can see where you are coming though. I guess the zs10 pro has better treble, but the ks1 has no right to be as good as they are for the price I paid.


----------



## alamnp

Sebulr said:


> Interesting. I'm gonna have do a comparison between my ks1 and kz zs10 pro now. I can see where you are coming though. I guess the zs10 pro has better treble, but the ks1 has no right to be as good as they are for the price I paid.


I can only vouch for BTR5 though. Not sure with other pairing source. 

FIIO DAC are all good. Hoping Iphone 13 will come out with DAC like output and chipset. 

btw FIIO has just released FH5s, looks very promising, but I am broke for now, got Believe and LZ A7 in the last 6 months.


----------



## RCracer777

Twowheeler said:


> Thanks! Than you probably know about aartjan too. I've read his ZSX review Here, and that's what got me wanting that IEM. His blog also made me do more research, which is how I ended with the DQ6. I knew about this forum from a few years ago, but never actively participated. Good to know there are fellow dutchies around here. I see you have quite the collection as well.


Little late reaction but yeah I know of Aartjan. He's the reason I started with KZ as my first IEM... or IEMs as I bought the ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro and ZSX in one go.
It wasn't my first purchase as that would be the MSR7 followed by the X7 MkII a few weeks later, with a little over a year gap to the first IEMs. 
Not quite the budget start you're doing but I've never regretted doing it this way.

The collection is something that grows as time passes. Sure, the growth of my collection has accelerated during this plague that is going on as I don't really have something else to spend it on and more time to use them. But I'm keeping it under control ATM, or at least trying to. 
Don't feel like you have to keep up or even start a collection. If 1 is enough, then 1 is enough. But ChiFi sure is a slippery slope to be on, before you know it you're in the double digits 

That said, I'm looking forward to your reaction when your DQ6 arrives.


----------



## peskypesky

AmericanSpirit said:


> Guys, Aliexpress Tech Mania Sale day is coming in hours.



The Tech Mania prices seem the same as always. I'm not seeing any deals.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

peskypesky said:


> The Tech Mania prices seem the same as always. I'm not seeing any deals.


TRN VX got good discount, KZ items seemed no good deal so far. TRI Starsea also got discount to 107


----------



## Twowheeler

Barndoor said:


> That cable was discussed on Discovery thread.


Where can I find that thread? I'm looking for a cheap but good cable for my DQ6. TRN 16core seems good, but curious about that new KZ cable. Certainly looks good


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Twowheeler said:


> Where can I find that thread? I'm looking for a cheap but good cable for my DQ6. TRN 16core seems good, but curious about that new KZ cable. Certainly looks good







Try DQ6 with tripowin Zonie, it’s $17 on amazon. Good fit and best touch ever.


----------



## homesickmadmax

AmericanSpirit said:


> Try DQ6 with tripowin Zonie, it’s $17 on amazon. Good fit and best touch ever.


I second that, great cable.


----------



## Twowheeler

Thanks! That's a good looking cable too. 

What I noticed with the DQ6 is that they're very "sensitive". Volume can be set very low. Downside is that in some recordings you can hear a slight static in the background. I guess that's the downside of IEM's. Suddenly every crack and hiss can be heard. First impressions are very good thoug. Really pleasant sound.


----------



## Barndoor

Twowheeler said:


> Where can I find that thread? I'm looking for a cheap but good cable for my DQ6. TRN 16core seems good, but curious about that new KZ cable. Certainly looks good


Mine arrived today. Not sure I would recommend it. It is quite thick, heavy and not particularly comfortable.


----------



## moisespr123

Twowheeler said:


> Thanks! That's a good looking cable too.
> 
> What I noticed with the DQ6 is that they're very "sensitive". Volume can be set very low. Downside is that in some recordings you can hear a slight static in the background. I guess that's the downside of IEM's. Suddenly every crack and hiss can be heard. First impressions are very good thoug. Really pleasant sound.


This is why I use the IFI IEMatch no matter where I plug my IEMs. It helps in eliminating the noise as well as giving me better volume controls. These IEMS are really loud and can easily cause hearing damage if one forgets to set the volume low without it.


----------



## MacAttack7

moisespr123 said:


> This is why I use the IFI IEMatch no matter where I plug my IEMs. It helps in eliminating the noise as well as giving me better volume controls. These IEMS are really loud and can easily cause hearing damage if one forgets to set the volume low without it.


I had my earphones in at max volume by accident and could not claw them out fast enough. 
Stresses me out to think I may have damaged my hearing, but nothing I can do it about it now. I haven't noticed anything at least. 
Now I use Apple Music with my iPod which has a volume limit on it.


----------



## alamnp

MacAttack7 said:


> I had my earphones in at max volume by accident and could not claw them out fast enough.
> Stresses me out to think I may have damaged my hearing, but nothing I can do it about it now. I haven't noticed anything at least.
> Now I use Apple Music with my iPod which has a volume limit on it.


ehmmm as long as you don't have tinnitus (ringing in your ear) after. I don't think you have any auditory damage. You can also go to any urgent care and ask for hearing test, very simple 5 minutes procedure and you are done. 

I have not seen any of my patients with hearing damage without tinnitus. I work as Nurse Practitioner for 13 years, still on my regular stethoscope, despite listening to bunch IEMs (I limit them to 2-3 hours per day though)


----------



## MacAttack7

alamnp said:


> ehmmm as long as you don't have tinnitus (ringing in your ear) after. I don't think you have any auditory damage. You can also go to any urgent care and ask for hearing test, very simple 5 minutes procedure and you are done.
> 
> I have not seen any of my patients with hearing damage without tinnitus. I work as Nurse Practitioner for 13 years, still on my regular stethoscope, despite listening to bunch IEMs (I limit them to 2-3 hours per day though)


It was a few months ago now, so I try to assume all is well. I wouldn't want a hearing test, because if they find anything wrong I'll be a basketcase. 
I do hear ringing every now & then but it's very mild and usually just a few seconds. I'm pretty sure I've had that experience prior to my earphone/music hobby.
Thank you for the info!


----------



## homesickmadmax

moisespr123 said:


> This is why I use the IFI IEMatch no matter where I plug my IEMs. It helps in eliminating the noise as well as giving me better volume controls. These IEMS are really loud and can easily cause hearing damage if one forgets to set the volume low without it.


Looks good for that problem, but it is like 80$ for a 20$ IEM


----------



## cappuchino (Apr 30, 2021)

It looks like KZ is pushing for the TWS route... 2BA + 1DD I think if we follow how they name their IEMs. Doesn't it look like Storm's hair or that's just me?







Their official store on Lazada is also doing a promotion for the AZ09. A smidge under 20 USD for those that want to buy. Might be cheap enough to blind buy. I don't have mine yet so I can't give any thoughts (just got shipped this afternoon).


----------



## Mouseman

cappuchino said:


> It looks like KZ is pushing for the TWS route... 2BA + 1DD I think if we follow how they name their IEMs. Doesn't it look like Storm or that's just me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess that kind of supplants the SKS and S2 models, which are sitting in my cart but I haven't pulled the trigger yet. I know this is a ridiculous statement since this is KZ we're talking about, but I wish they'd focus a bit more on differentiation and quality over quantity. Especially with TWS since I'm not sure they've cracked the code yet.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Apr 30, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> It looks like KZ is pushing for the TWS route... 2BA + 1DD I think if we follow how they name their IEMs. Doesn't it look like Storm's hair or that's just me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This year will be TWS year for KZ as they're very much done with their hybrids for now it seems. I'd not be surprised (or probably not) if they don't launch any hybrid wired IEMs. Only DD IEMs.


----------



## Mouseman

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> This year will be TWS year for KZ as they're very much done with their hybrids for now it seems. I'd be surprised (or probably not) if they don't launch any hybrid wired IEMs. Only DD IEMs.


If they're as good as the QD6, I'm fine with no more hybrids. But I'm still expecting a 2DD/2BA or better to compete with the Fiio FH5s.
Now what they need to do is improve TWS battery life. They don't even seem to list it for their buds lately. They advertise the case life and think we're fooled.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Mouseman said:


> If they're as good as the QD6, I'm fine with no more hybrids. But I'm still expecting a 2DD/2BA or better to compete with the Fiio FH5s.
> Now what they need to do is improve TWS battery life. They don't even seem to list it for their buds lately. They advertise the case life and think we're fooled.


Yes even I prefer KZ doing a stellar job on a single DD as opposed to jamming in n numbers of drivers. I've thankfully refrained from purchasing any KZ wireless products as none of them had positive impressions from a product standpoint.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Yes even I prefer KZ doing a stellar job on a single DD as opposed to jamming in n numbers of drivers. I've thankfully refrained from purchasing any KZ wireless products as none of them had positive impressions from a product standpoint.



Yeah, well, if nothing else, IMO, their terrible battery life makes them a non-starter.


----------



## Mouseman

InvisibleInk said:


> Yeah, well, if nothing else, IMO, their terrible battery life makes them a non-starter.


I think, based on the wireless thread, that B&W must be buying from the same supplier.


----------



## courierdriver

AmericanSpirit said:


> Try DQ6 with tripowin Zonie, it’s $17 on amazon. Good fit and best touch ever.


+1. That's the same cable I'm using on my DQ6 too! There's a great synergy with the DQ6 and the Zonie, imo. Using the 2.5 balanced plug with both my ES100 and Q1MK2 portable dac/amps. With this combo, I have to stop myself from enjoying listening to my music collection, and go to bed to get sleep. The sound is just so good and addictive.


----------



## jesusvallejo

hi as many of you my zs10pro socket broke. i bought zsn pro and took the socketout and soldered it to the zs10pro, it was pretty easy but not as cheap(a pity the zsn will have no use) as it could be if the socket could be found on its own. has anyone found this kind of socket anywhere? i emailed kz but never got a reply.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

jesusvallejo said:


> hi as many of you my zs10pro socket broke. i bought zsn pro and took the socketout and soldered it to the zs10pro, it was pretty easy but not as cheap(a pity the zsn will have no use) as it could be if the socket could be found on its own. has anyone found this kind of socket anywhere? i emailed kz but never got a reply.


Kz mainly uses 0.75mm 2pin socket that is very rare because most of 2pins follow 0.78mm.  You may have a chance to find junk parts on Aliexpress though, they sell everything I could think of.


----------



## Tonymac136

https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms2bXhL

Maybe.


----------



## guido

AmericanSpirit said:


> Kz mainly uses 0.75mm 2pin socket that is very rare because most of 2pins follow 0.78mm.  You may have a chance to find junk parts on Aliexpress though, they sell everything I could think of.


there is no discernible difference between 0.78 and 0.75mm sockets and you would be hard pressed to tell or measure the difference


----------



## r31ya

Technically you can jam 0.78mm pin into 0.75mm socket
i've tried it with my KZ DQ6 to be paired with 0.78mm KBear balanced cable.

Not sure about long term damage as i bought that KZ DQ6 for my brother birthday gift, to replace his broken KZ ZST. So its no longer with me.


----------



## cappuchino (May 3, 2021)

*KZ DQ6 with Gold, Silver, and Copper cable (784)*

Total cost: ~18 USD + ~8 USD (Shopee) without coins and vouchers 😏😉

The new KZ upgrade cable is premium feeling. Posted a more detailed impression on the "Low End, Cheap,... Cable" thread. 
Regarding sonic changes, I'm sitting on the "case-by-case basis" side but I dare say sibilance disappeared and midrange, in general, is fuller but I did just receive the HUD100 MK2 and I'm too lazy to A/B currently 😅.


----------



## Barndoor

r31ya said:


> Technically you can jam 0.78mm pin into 0.75mm socket
> i've tried it with my KZ DQ6 to be paired with 0.78mm KBear balanced cable.
> 
> Not sure about long term damage as i bought that KZ DQ6 for my brother birthday gift, to replace his broken KZ ZST. So its no longer with me.


Also works the other way around.
I've shoved a 0.75mm cable on my 0.78mm Blon BL-03 and it works fine.


----------



## Oruzitch

r31ya said:


> Technically you can jam 0.78mm pin into 0.75mm socket
> i've tried it with my KZ DQ6 to be paired with 0.78mm KBear balanced cable.
> 
> Not sure about long term damage as i bought that KZ DQ6 for my brother birthday gift, to replace his broken KZ ZST. So its no longer with me.



Shouldnt do anything to your iems ive used 0.78mm aftermarket cables for about 5 months and they work just fine.

Also I dont think you can even look and tell which pin is 0.78mm and 0.75mm (unless you have microscopic eyes) its 0.03mm of difference it should be whithin 
QC acceptable range.

In the end one pin can be 0,78 and the other 0,75.


----------



## RCracer777

While there isn't much difference between in the pin diameter between 0,78mm and 0,75mm, only 0,03mm. As an engineer I can say that this does change the type of press fit you're getting. That and there is a small difference in the distance between the pins with the 0,78 having a larger gap between the two pins. Guessing about 0,07~0,12mm, it's visible with the naked eye. It's not just the diameter of the pins but also the distance between them, although the pin diameter doesn't do as much as the distance between the pins.

When putting a 0,78 in a 0,75 connector every time you insert and remove the cable you will damage the socket by stretching it and bend the pins on the cable. This won't be noticeable in the first few times but over time it will add up. If you keep swapping cables you're gonna break it a lot faster than when using the correct connector.
When doing the same with a 0,75 in a 0,78 socket you're going to bend the pins on the cable and squeeze the socket a little.

As for the tolerance in these kind of small components it usually is between 0,005 and 0,015mm so the tolerance isn't big enough to make up the difference in this case, at least not with the difference in pin distance. 
That said Chinese engineering isn't the best and tolerances mean just about nothing to them so YMMV. 
On cheaper IEMs/cables there probably won't be much of an issue but as you go up in price it will as the components get better.


----------



## nraymond

RCracer777 said:


> While there isn't much difference between in the pin diameter between 0,78mm and 0,75mm, only 0,03mm. As an engineer I can say that this does change the type of press fit you're getting. That and there is a small difference in the distance between the pins with the 0,78 having a larger gap between the two pins. Guessing about 0,07~0,12mm, it's visible with the naked eye. It's not just the diameter of the pins but also the distance between them, although the pin diameter doesn't do as much as the distance between the pins.
> 
> When putting a 0,78 in a 0,75 connector every time you insert and remove the cable you will damage the socket by stretching it and bend the pins on the cable. This won't be noticeable in the first few times but over time it will add up. If you keep swapping cables you're gonna break it a lot faster than when using the correct connector.
> When doing the same with a 0,75 in a 0,78 socket you're going to bend the pins on the cable and squeeze the socket a little.
> ...


I don't believe anyone has been able to measure a real-world difference.


----------



## RCracer777

nraymond said:


> I don't believe anyone has been able to measure a real-world difference.


Depends on what tools they have available and how much they actually care. 

The outside measurement I'm getting is 2,5mm on the 0,75 and 2,7mm on the 0,78 using my calipers. 
That's a 0,2mm difference on the outside with about 0,17mm difference between the center of the pins.


----------



## nraymond

RCracer777 said:


> Depends on what tools they have available and how much they actually care.
> 
> The outside measurement I'm getting is 2,5mm on the 0,75 and 2,7mm on the 0,78 using my calipers.
> That's a 0,2mm difference on the outside with about 0,17mm difference between the center of the pins.


Hmm, that's interesting, because I have cables were sold/labelled as 0.75mm and 0.78mm and the one's I've checked so far have measured the same. I just doubled-checked and pulled out two TRN cables, one labelled 0.75mm and one labelled 0.78mm, and both measure 2.5mm across the pins measured with my Wixey WR100 digital calipers. What cables were you measuring?


----------



## RCracer777 (May 3, 2021)

nraymond said:


> Hmm, that's interesting, because I have cables were sold/labelled as 0.75mm and 0.78mm and the one's I've checked so far have measured the same. I just doubled-checked and pulled out two TRN cables, one labelled 0.75mm and one labelled 0.78mm, and both measure 2.5mm across the pins measured with my Wixey WR100 digital calipers. What cables were you measuring?


The 0,75 was the stock silver KZ QDC and the 0,78 was the cable from the FiiO FH1S, measured using a calibrated Mitutoyo caliper with a 0,05mm scale.
Multiple measurements were done to get an average with the 0,75 getting between 2,45 and 2,5mm and the 0,78 getting between 2,7 and 2,75mm.

I think the differences we're getting in our measurements are a result of the good ol' Chineese production tolerances. That or there might be different 0,78 connectors types that look almost identical.

On a side note, I find it funny that the FiiO FH1S uses a 0,78 cable but uses TFZ sockets on the IEM. I know TFZ is a shrouded 0,78 but still.


----------



## Tonymac136

RCracer777 said:


> While there isn't much difference between in the pin diameter between 0,78mm and 0,75mm, only 0,03mm. As an engineer I can say that this does change the type of press fit you're getting. That and there is a small difference in the distance between the pins with the 0,78 having a larger gap between the two pins. Guessing about 0,07~0,12mm, it's visible with the naked eye. It's not just the diameter of the pins but also the distance between them, although the pin diameter doesn't do as much as the distance between the pins.
> 
> When putting a 0,78 in a 0,75 connector every time you insert and remove the cable you will damage the socket by stretching it and bend the pins on the cable. This won't be noticeable in the first few times but over time it will add up. If you keep swapping cables you're gonna break it a lot faster than when using the correct connector.
> When doing the same with a 0,75 in a 0,78 socket you're going to bend the pins on the cable and squeeze the socket a little.
> ...



That's all true but best practice would be to not plug and unplug cables one you're happy with what you have. Most of my IEMs get tried with stock and then with aftermarket and I'm done. Exception being my Tin P1 which I've decided to go from silver litz to Tripowin Zonie because balanced.

The interconnect between my CD Player and Amp in my home audio setup has been plugged in for 18 years and the speakers only ever got unplugged for house moves.


----------



## IEMbiker

Frankenstein ZSN Pro X nozzle mod after nozzle donated to ASX. I remove the BA at the nozzle completely and surprisingly the DD is so good(Comparing to EDX). Bigger bass and mid-centric than EDX. Treble is acceptable, no harshness, and resolution improved.


----------



## saldsald (May 4, 2021)

Hi, here is the FR of the CSN with the BA disconnected (XUN only). I also have the FR of the CSN with the BA and the DQ6 plotted here. Guess which is which. This result is more than interesting and confirmed my speculation is right. I also tested with my ears.


----------



## cappuchino (May 4, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Hi, here is the FR of the CSN with the BA disconnected (XUN only). I also have the FR of the CSN with the BA and the DQ6 plotted here. Guess which is which. This result is more than interesting and confirmed my speculation is right. I also tested with my ears.


Blue is DQ6
Pink is CSN (stock)
Green is CSN (single-DD)

Did I get that right? That green does look like a nice, warmish V-shape😎 I hope KZ has plans for a single-DD XUN in the future as that dynamic driver is awesome.


----------



## saldsald

cappuchino said:


> Blue is DQ6
> Pink is CSN w/ BA
> Green is CSN (single-DD)
> 
> Did I get that right? That green does look like a nice graph 😎 I hope KZ has plans for a single-DD XUN in the future as that dynamic driver is awesome.


I will reveal the answer later   .


----------



## Barndoor

saldsald said:


> I will reveal the answer later   .


I'd say the DQ6 was pink as feels like it has slightly more bass than CSN, although my CSN isn't burnt in fully yet.
Would agree that green is just XUN.
Is there no crossover in CSN?


----------



## cappuchino

Barndoor said:


> I'd say the DQ6 was pink as feels like it has slightly more bass than CSN, although my CSN isn't burnt in fully yet.
> Would agree that green is just XUN.
> Is there no crossover in CSN?


I focused more on the changes in the treble region as I've read that the CSN has less in quantity than the DQ6, thus having a slightly warmer presentation?


----------



## Barndoor

You're probably right, can't see how disconnecting the BA would cause a jump in bass from blue to green, so more likely CSN is pink.


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEMbiker said:


> Frankenstein ZSN Pro X nozzle mod after nozzle donated to ASX. I remove the BA at the nozzle completely and surprisingly the DD is so good(Comparing to EDX). Bigger bass and mid-centric than EDX. Treble is acceptable, no harshness, and resolution improved.


Great to see it done!
(It is in my pkans one day...)

How did you find wide-nozzle ASX?
For the last ~5 months, it is my main IEM that really does everything (I got two copies done to make sure it is real)


----------



## IEMbiker

PhonoPhi said:


> Great to see it done!
> (It is in my pkans one day...)
> 
> How did you find wide-nozzle ASX?
> For the last ~5 months, it is my main IEM that really does everything (I got two copies done to make sure it is real)


So far the ASX wide nozzle gets the most listening time compared to the rest...
My KZ IEM ranking ASX (wide)>AS10>ZAX>CSN>DQ6>ZSN Pro X 1 DD>EDX.


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> Hi, here is the FR of the CSN with the BA disconnected (XUN only). I also have the FR of the CSN with the BA and the DQ6 plotted here. Guess which is which. This result is more than interesting and confirmed my speculation is right. I also tested with my ears.


Blue = DQ6
Pink = CSN
Green = CSN (BA disconnected)

This was a mental workout!...Do I get a prize if I win? 

-Clear


----------



## G777

saldsald said:


> Hi, here is the FR of the CSN with the BA disconnected (XUN only). I also have the FR of the CSN with the BA and the DQ6 plotted here. Guess which is which. This result is more than interesting and confirmed my speculation is right. I also tested with my ears.


Is the green line the regular CSN?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (May 4, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> I focused more on the changes in the treble region as I've read that the CSN has less in quantity than the DQ6, thus having a slightly warmer presentation?





1clearhead said:


> Blue = DQ6
> Pink = CSN
> Green = CSN (BA disconnected)
> 
> ...



The way OP has been acting wrt responses I think there's some twist here. And that's between CSN (minus BA) and DQ6. 😅


----------



## IEMbiker

saldsald said:


> Hi, here is the FR of the CSN with the BA disconnected (XUN only). I also have the FR of the CSN with the BA and the DQ6 plotted here. Guess which is which. This result is more than interesting and confirmed my speculation is right. I also tested with my ears.


Pink and Blue look like from the same model. So I guess Green is DQ6. Pink is CSN(BA off), Blue is the original CSN..


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> I will reveal the answer later   .


Okay, the suspense is killing us! Can you "setup a date" when you'll inform us the answer to the mystery you have raised in this ongoing torture. 

"The people need to know!"..."We need to know!"...the people have spoken! 

Please!!! 😬


----------



## saldsald (May 5, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Blue is DQ6
> Pink is CSN (stock)
> Green is CSN (single-DD)
> 
> Did I get that right? That green does look like a nice, warmish V-shape😎 I hope KZ has plans for a single-DD XUN in the future as that dynamic driver is awesome.


Wrong! 


Barndoor said:


> I'd say the DQ6 was pink as feels like it has slightly more bass than CSN, although my CSN isn't burnt in fully yet.
> Would agree that green is just XUN.
> Is there no crossover in CSN?


Wrong! 


Barndoor said:


> You're probably right, can't see how disconnecting the BA would cause a jump in bass from blue to green, so more likely CSN is pink.


The bass is not too relevant here.


1clearhead said:


> Blue = DQ6
> Pink = CSN
> Green = CSN (BA disconnected)
> 
> ...


Wrong! And I am too cheap to give out any prize! 


G777 said:


> Is the green line the regular CSN?


Yes! But can't count you right here!


Barusu Lamperouge said:


> The way OP has been acting wrt responses I think there's some twist here. And that's between CSN (minus BA) and DQ6. 😅


Yes this is exactly why I said it is more than interesting!


IEMbiker said:


> Pink and Blue look like from the same model. So I guess Green is DQ6. Pink is CSN(BA off), Blue is the original CSN..


I think pink and green are closer.

Anyway here is the correct answer:

Blue  - DQ6
Green - CSN
Pink - CSN with XUN only

Surprise! 

It is interesting as the 30095 in the CSN is there to cut the treble and to give a thicker sound. I say there is about 20% contribution to the overall sound from the 30095 and 80% from the XUN. I am sure they can just sell another IEM with the XUN only.


----------



## saldsald

1clearhead said:


> Okay, the suspense is killing us! Can you "setup a date" when you'll inform us the answer to the mystery you have raised in this ongoing torture.
> 
> "The people need to know!"..."We need to know!"...the people have spoken!
> 
> Please!!! 😬


lol, don't worry I have just posted the answer and there is no prize for you!


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> lol, don't worry I have just posted the answer and there is no prize for you!


LOL! Great job!


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> Wrong!
> 
> Wrong!
> 
> ...


Very good analysis!...Good to know!


----------



## Barndoor

I do struggle to get my head around how adding a driver takes away rather than adding!


----------



## 1clearhead

Barndoor said:


> I do struggle to get my head around how adding a driver takes away rather than adding!


I guess is the little crossovers in the back of the units inside the housing that makes the difference.


----------



## Barndoor

I would assume there is no crossover, else XUN wouldn't be full range?


----------



## saldsald

Barndoor said:


> I do struggle to get my head around how adding a driver takes away rather than adding!


Probably because they put a 0.3uF (approx.) pass filter there before the 30095 which cuts quite a lot of treble.
HVEK-30095:


----------



## saldsald

Barndoor said:


> I would assume there is no crossover, else XUN wouldn't be full range?


----------



## 1clearhead (May 5, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Probably because they put a 0.3uF (approx.) pass filter there before the 30095 which cuts quite a lot of treble.
> HVEK-30095:


+1 yup! Consistent to a type of crossover filter, though it's small.


----------



## Barndoor

Being a simpleton, this is still beyond me!
If the 30095 was a full range driver then I could understand how filtering the treble on it would have such an impact on the combined frequency, however as the 30095 is a tweeter it still isn't working in my head!
Probably should just stop thinking and accept!


----------



## 1clearhead

Barndoor said:


> Being a simpleton, this is still beyond me!
> If the 30095 was a full range driver then I could understand how filtering the treble on it would have such an impact on the combined frequency, however as the 30095 is a tweeter it still isn't working in my head!
> Probably should just stop thinking and accept!


+1 I learned to accept many weird concepts in the Chi-Fi world of earphones.


----------



## saldsald (May 5, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> +1 yup! Consistent to a type of crossover filter, though it's small.


I am not family with pass filters and their usual values and I am probably wrong about the pass filtering frequency 

If this is the correct calculation for the BA there, is the pass filtering circuit doing anything at all? Cutting off at above 26.5KHz that's beyond my hearing range.


----------



## Barndoor

Could the BA be running with reverse polarity?


----------



## saldsald (May 5, 2021)

Barndoor said:


> Could the BA be running with reverse polarity?


No I don't think so. The side with engraved fonts faces up and I checked the spec of the 30095 the polarity should be correct but I still need to confirm which side should be facing up.


----------



## 1clearhead (May 5, 2021)

saldsald said:


> I am not family with pass filters and their usual values and I am probably wrong about the pass filtering frequency
> 
> If this is the correct calculation for the BA there, is the pass filtering circuit doing anything at all? Cutting off at above 26.5KHz that's beyond my hearing range.


My brain is fried!....My guess is as good as yours.


----------



## Barndoor (May 5, 2021)

I put my DQ6 and CSN in a drawer and got out my BLON BL03. Problem solved!


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> No I don't think so. The side with engraved fonts faces up and I checked the spec of the 30095 the polarity should be correct but I still need to confirm which side should be facing up.


Confirmed again the polarity is correct.


----------



## Barndoor

I wasn't convinced a BA could be used to noise cancel using reverse polarity anyway!
Are you sure that you haven't removed a low pass filter from the XUN?


----------



## saldsald (May 5, 2021)

Barndoor said:


> I wasn't convinced a BA could be used to noise cancel using reverse polarity anyway!
> Are you sure that you haven't removed a low pass filter from the XUN?


Neither am I . I don't see any other low pass filter there.

I disconnected the circuit at these points:





Edit: is this actually not a Low Pass Filter Circuit but just for inducing a 90 degree phase shift?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Man this is a mind-bender. KZ is using a BA specialized in treble to cut treble 😂 maybe historically that's what they've been doing with this BA all the while? And that's why it is their favourite BA because they're not using to tune treble but to block spiked up treble of their in-house DD.


----------



## Barndoor

One other thing that springs to mind is how little the 2 additional DDs add in the DQ6. Are they even connected?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Barndoor said:


> I do struggle to get my head around how adding a driver takes away rather than adding!


Exactly.
If the load of the BA is taken away, the comparison may be technically incorrect, since the DD may get more power. Unless it can be proven that the BA and DD are independently powered, which does not seem to be the case from what is measured.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Man this is a mind-bender. KZ is using a BA specialized in treble to cut treble 😂 maybe historically that's what they've been doing with this BA all the while? And that's why it is their favourite BA because they're not using to tune treble but to block spiked up treble of their in-house DD.


Theoretically speaking BA can be used in an antiphase .
Reversing BA polarity will make for a good addition to these graphs.


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## saldsald (May 6, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> Exactly.
> If the load of the BA is taken away, the comparison may be technically incorrect, since the DD may get more power. Unless it can be proven that the BA and DD are independently powered, which does not seem to be the case from what is measured.


The load only affects the reflection of the signal and since the cable is so short it should be negligible. What do you mean by independently powered? The BA and DD in the circuit only see each other as a load, don't they? Statistically speaking the FR curves for the CSN with and without the BA match so closely already suggested the DD is not affected by the BA in the circuit. I have also done experiment with some of my IEMs and the FR curves can be recreated at different input voltages so they actually respond quite linearly.


PhonoPhi said:


> Theoretically speaking BA can be used in an antiphase .
> Reversing BA polarity will make for a good addition to these graphs.


Good idea I may do so but it is much more complicated than just disconnecting the BA. I will need to fully disassemble the shell to rewire.


----------



## saldsald

1clearhead said:


> My brain is fried!....My guess is as good as yours.


I think there is no low pass filter in the circuit but just a simple RC circuit to induce a 90 degree phase change so your brain is saved!


----------



## saldsald

Barndoor said:


> One other thing that springs to mind is how little the 2 additional DDs add in the DQ6. Are they even connected?


Yea as I said the 6mm DDs and the BA add so little to the XUN tuning. But the 6mm's work quite differently they add sound instead of cancelling that's why the DQ6 is more 3D sounding.


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> Yea as I said the 6mm DDs and the BA add so little to the XUN tuning. But the 6mm's work quite differently they add sound instead of cancelling that's why the DQ6 is more 3D sounding.


I still like the tuning on both, equally. They both have their takeaways and merits, IMHO!


----------



## ephrank

My AS12 arrived yesterday in the mail*. Took them for a quick listen. Since I don't have any KZ type C cable, I used the brown stock cable with my DAP. I remembered long ago KZ bundled rubbish cables with their IEMs, but since that was years ago, I gave the "new" stock cable a try anyway...

First impression with my test track _(Chvrches - Never Ending Circles) _- OH NO I've wasted $49 on this! The bass sounded all wrong, almost non existence! Fatiguing treble! Nooo... Hold on, _may be _the cable is at fault?

Later, I found my TRN 0.75 gold/silver cable in the drawer (one of the silver strands has turned green, btw) and, wow, now the AS12 sound "normal"!

Seriously, those KZ brown cables really belong to the rubbish bin!

* Took only 8 days to arrive - AliExpress is seriously fast now!


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## PhonoPhi (May 6, 2021)

saldsald said:


> The load only affects the reflection of the signal and since the cable is so short it should be negligible. What do you mean by independently powered? The BA and DD in the circuit only see each other as a load, don't they? Statistically speaking the FR curves for the CSN with and without the BA match so closely already suggested the DD is not affected by the BA in the circuit. I have also done experiment with some of my IEMs and the FR curves can be recreated at different input voltages so they actually respond quite linearly.
> 
> Good idea I may do so but it is much more complicated than just disconnecting the BA. I will need to fully disassemble the shell to rewire.


The capacitor serves as a high-pass filter for a BA driver. (Actually, the values are typically 2-2.5 microF to have a crossover at few kHz).
So there is little power consumed by the BA below few kHz (typically ~2 kHz) but above this crossover range, the power is divided.
So when you disconnect the BA, the DD will get more power above the crossover range producing more overtones there - so it may be similar quantity but less quality without the BA at higher frequencies.

That would reasonably explain the observed results and also makes testing different polarity less relevant.


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## saldsald (May 6, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> The capacitor serves as a high-pass filter for a BA driver. (Actually, the values are typically 2-2.5 microF to have a crossover at few kHz).
> So there is little power consumed by the BA below few kHz (typically ~2 kHz) but above this crossover range, the power is divided.
> So when you disconnect the BA, the DD will get more power above the crossover range producing more overtones there - so it may be similar quantity but less quality without the BA at higher frequencies.
> 
> That would reasonably explain the observed results and also makes testing different polarity less relevant.


The circuit may act as a low pass filter for the DD and a high pass filter for the BA but the value measured is 0.3 uF unless my multimeter is broken. I will trible check the circuit again to verify. I think it would be more believable if the cap has higher capacitance.

The best way to verify this is to replace the BA with resistors withe the same combined resistance whcih I am gonna do when I have all the parts.


----------



## courierdriver

Getting lost in all these posts. Right now, just digging the ZAX. Really love my DQ6 too. DQ6 is more organic sounding, but ZAX has got a bit better enunciated upper mids and highs. Some might call it brighter, but the ZAX still has a certain something something in the higher regions. At least to my ears. I guess it depends on what music you're listening to. Right now, I'm enjoying this:


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## cappuchino (May 8, 2021)

Literally just arrived. The KZ AZ09.

Haven't listened to them yet because I'm charging them. Case is plastic, and as seen on the pic, is big. Pocketable, just not with jeans. Charging is done through Type C so that's a plus. Currently at 20 USD for the promotional price. A manual is included, and an interesting thing I found is that the light changes depending on the charge left in the case.

Will update this post from time-to-time for initial impressions.

UPDATE: With the DQ6, I'm getting noticeable hiss when music not's playing. However, the "hiss" disappears after ~9 seconds if you don't play any music, dead silent. Do take note that the DQ6 is a rather sensitive IEM.  Initial pairing is straightforward. I just had to manually turn on the AZ09 and my phone (Oppo Reno 4) was able to pair immediately. Just like in the product description, it's AAC limited. Not a problem for Apple users, but might be an issue for Android users. To reach my low-medium listening volume, I need 5/17 clicks from zero (phone) and 33/100 with my laptop.

Fit-wise, I'd say it's perfect. Shook my head and got a bit dizzy and the AZ09 didn't fall off. It's actually really light on ear.

With the AZ09 physical button, 1 push is play/pause, 2 is change track (left/right),3 is high performance/low latency mode (there's a female prompt once it activates, and clicks register immediately). A low chime plays when you change tracks. Play/pause don't produce any sound. Now this, while isn't "good" ergonomic-wise, due to the module being behind your ear, is awesome. Commands are perfectly registered and "snappy."

When there's a notification, music is turned down a notch but still plays in the background. Gets back on set previous volume immediately after notification.

Charging from red to green light out-of-the-box took ~30 minutes.

Disclaimer: This is a review unit from KZ.


----------



## courierdriver

Also listening to the ZAX with this music:


----------



## courierdriver




----------



## courierdriver

Great music, and blowing me away right now. Gotta force myself to shut it down. I'm way past my bedtime and need to get sleep. Goodnight everyone!


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## saldsald (May 7, 2021)

saldsald said:


> The circuit may act as a low pass filter for the DD and a high pass filter for the BA but the value measured is 0.3 uF unless my multimeter is broken. I will trible check the circuit again to verify. I think it would be more believable if the cap has higher capacitance.
> 
> The best way to verify this is to replace the BA with resistors withe the same combined resistance whcih I am gonna do when I have all the parts.


I solved the circuit mathematically and plotted the weighted signal against the FR measurement of the XUN driver alone. Unfortunately the small value of the cap and thus the low pass frequency still cannot explain the cancelled peaks. It will be interesting to compare the results with the measured FR with the BA replaced with resistors.

Edit: Graph to be updated


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## IEMbiker

saldsald said:


> The circuit may act as a low pass filter for the DD and a high pass filter for the BA but the value measured is 0.3 uF unless my multimeter is broken. I will trible check the circuit again to verify. I think it would be more believable if the cap has higher capacitance.
> 
> The best way to verify this is to replace the BA with resistors withe the same combined resistance whcih I am gonna do when I have all the parts.


In car audio, sometime we just add capacitor on tweeter to block the low frequency, without complete crossover circuit. So in this circuit, it look like the resistor is to reduce 
volume and capacitor to block low frequency.


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## saldsald (May 7, 2021)

IEMbiker said:


> In car audio, sometime we just add capacitor on tweeter to block the low frequency, without complete crossover circuit. So in this circuit, it look like the resistor is to reduce
> volume and capacitor to block low frequency.


Yes it seems so but the crossover frequency should be around half of the low-pass frequency = 26.5kHz / 2 = 13.2kHz. The thing is now the choice of this low cap value cannot be explained. I am actually hoping my multimeter is broken (and I just bought a new one online) so I can end this for now.

By the way they are using such high tolerance caps I measured one to be 0.3uF and the other to be 0.36uF.


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## cappuchino (May 7, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Literally just arrived. The KZ AZ09...


Okay, guys. This is some important stuff right here.

I have *more than 4 hours of continuous listening in "high performance/low latency" mode*. Guess at what *battery percentage *I'm at? *60%*. This is at my usual listening volume (low-medium to medium) with the DQ6. That's just bonkers. And with the claim that the case can charge for at least 8 times (haven't tested yet, obviously)? *These can last you more than a week* 😂

Now, I don't know how long that stellar battery efficiency will last or will it degrade quickly over time so take this with a spoonful of salt.

Granted, I encounter hiss on a relatively sensitive IEM. Build material is all plastic. It is only available in QDC and is AAC-limited. *HOWEVER...

I now see listing for 16 USD on Shopee and Lazada. *Their official store on Shopee sells it for that much. Forget cheapo TWS or other competitors (unless you don't have IEMs that utilize QDC 😅) and grab the *AZ09*.

One more thing - the QDC is tight on my unit. It's hard to fit the T1 Plus with the connectors of the AZ09. It connects but didn't sit flush nor was it easy to remove (a scary experience). Oh, and on the manual it says there that it takes 2 hours to fully charge the Bluetooth module itself.


100% - 0% *Right piece died first and I forgot to start timer when I started listening for about 7 mins.




*0%-100% is not more than ~1.1 hours. I forgot to time it. Sorry for that. Will test again tomorrow.*


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## IEMbiker

saldsald said:


> Yes it seems so but the crossover frequency should be around half of the low-pass frequency = 26.5kHz / 2 = 13.2kHz. The thing is now the choice of this low cap value cannot be explained. I am actually hoping my multimeter is broken (and I just bought a new one online) so I can end this for now.
> 
> By the way they are using such high tolerance caps I measured one to be 0.3uF and the other to be 0.36uF.


so in single pole filter the calculation is 
1/2ꙥRf = 1/ 2x3.142x32Ωx13200
= 0.38uF

32Ω come from the 20Ω resistor and BA 12Ω
F= frequency

So I think the cap value is correct.


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEMbiker said:


> so in single pole filter the calculation is
> 1/2ꙥRf = 1/ 2x3.142x32Ωx13200
> = 0.38uF
> 
> ...


The question then is 13+ kHz a realistic crossover frequency?


----------



## sistoz

Hello everyone!
I own a pair of KZ ZAX and now I am looking for an upgrade.
Budget: $ 130 $
Reasons to upgrade: more neutral sound (less treble fatiguing), bigger soundstage, higher impedance (hiss problems at 24 ohm, not present at 32 ohm), similar fit to kz zax.    
Any advice?
Thank you for help!


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## ChrisOc

sistoz said:


> Hello everyone!
> I own a pair of KZ ZAX and now I am looking for an upgrade.
> Budget: $ 130 $
> Reasons to upgrade: more neutral sound (less treble fatiguing), bigger soundstage, higher impedance (hiss problems at 24 ohm, not present at 32 ohm), similar fit to kz zax.
> ...


I would suggest TRI I3, if you are considering something other than KZ sphere.


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## sistoz

ChrisOc said:


> I would suggest TRI I3, if you are considering something other than KZ sphere.


Thank you for your suggestion! Yes I will consider any IEM, do you have other suggestions?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

cappuchino said:


> Okay, guys. This is some important stuff right here.
> 
> I have *more than 4 hours of continuous listening in "high performance/low latency" mode*. Guess at what *battery percentage *I'm at? *60%*. This is at my usual listening volume (low-medium to medium) with the DQ6. That's just bonkers. And with the claim that the case can charge for at least 8 times (haven't tested yet, obviously)? *These can last you more than a week* 😂
> 
> ...


For benchmark, TRN BT20 easily offers over 7 hrs of battery at 60% volume. Only annoying part is their low battery alert which starts from 40% 😂

And currently it is not widely available, so maybe we will have some more impressions from you to help our purchase whenever they're available globally.


----------



## Sebulr

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> For benchmark, TRN BT20 easily offers over 7 hrs of battery at 60% volume. Only annoying part is their low battery alert which starts from 40% 😂
> 
> And currently it is not widely available, so maybe we will have some more impressions from you to help our purchase whenever they're available globally.


Mine doesn't give a low battery warning till it gets very low.


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## ChrisOc (May 7, 2021)

sistoz said:


> Thank you for your suggestion! Yes I will consider any IEM, do you have other suggestions?


Looking at your reasons for upgrade, I would suggest the TRI Starseas. The others of which I have personal experience in the price range but not exactly in the price range you specified, are ISN H40 (slightly over budget) the Meze Rai Solo (again slightly over) and the KBEAR Believe (no longer in production but you might find stray stock).

Quite frankly the Starseas are the best fit, given you said: "_*more neutral sound (less treble fatiguing), bigger soundstage". *_I would suggest you read up on them. These are exceptionally good IEMs (some say they are almost as good as the U12T) for around the price range you stated, exceptional value.


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## cappuchino (May 8, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> For benchmark, TRN BT20 easily offers over 7 hrs of battery at 60% volume. Only annoying part is their low battery alert which starts from 40% 😂
> 
> And currently it is not widely available, so maybe we will have some more impressions from you to help our purchase whenever they're available globally.


The thing is... does it come with a case?

I think that's the biggest selling point of the AZ09 in this price range.

*I forgot to emphasize* *- that battery life performance was in low latency mode* 😉

I'll test today how long it'll last in standard mode.

Low battery warning (every 30 seconds) for the AZ09 starts at ~25%. Prompts stop by ~20% and come back at around 10%


----------



## r31ya

sistoz said:


> Hello everyone!
> I own a pair of KZ ZAX and now I am looking for an upgrade.
> Budget: $ 130 $
> Reasons to upgrade: more neutral sound (less treble fatiguing), bigger soundstage, higher impedance (hiss problems at 24 ohm, not present at 32 ohm), similar fit to kz zax.
> ...


a  fair bit pricier than your price, but if you want great multi driver in $100~200 space.
Either go Tri Starsea, Thieaudio legacy 3, or BQEYZ Spring 2


----------



## IEMbiker

PhonoPhi said:


> The question then is 13+ kHz a realistic crossover frequency?


Im guessing they try to use the BA for really high frequency treble, as the DD is good full range. 
So from here maybe one can change the value of the capacitor to pass frequency according to personal fav.


----------



## cappuchino

cappuchino said:


> The thing is... does it come with a case...





cappuchino said:


> Literally just arrived. The KZ AZ09...


*UPDATE ON BATTERY LIFE:*

IEM: KZ DQ6
Volume: Low medium
Mode: Standard Mode


----------



## whirlwind

cappuchino said:


> The thing is... does it come with a case?
> 
> I think that's the biggest selling point of the AZ09 in this price range.
> 
> ...


These are available through Amazon and the price is nice. Not many reviews of it yet, but of the few that is there it is not receiving high marks,


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## cappuchino (May 8, 2021)

whirlwind said:


> These are available through Amazon and the price is nice. Not many reviews of it yet, but of the few that is there it is not receiving high marks,


Are you referring to this listing?




I noticed that it's a common practice in these stores that instead of creating a new listing, they just add a new option to an existing one.

One way to check which product the review is referring, look at the "color: *****"





So far, in my ~15 hours of listening with the AZ09 Bluetooth adapter, there was not a single disconnection nor random delay in sound 

*Opening the charging case automatically puts it in pairing mode much like the implementation in the Airpods.*


As a weird flex, I'm like 99% sure I'm the first person outside of China to receive the KZ AZ09 😅


----------



## whirlwind

cappuchino said:


> Are you referring to this listing?
> 
> 
> I noticed that it's a common practice in these stores that instead of creating a new listing, they just add a new option to an existing one.
> ...


Yes that ...I see now that was for the S2....nothing for the KZ AZ09 yet...so this can be promising.
Thanks for the heads-up


----------



## sistoz

ChrisOc said:


> Looking at your reasons for upgrade, I would suggest the TRI Starseas. The others of which I have personal experience in the price range but not exactly in the price range you specified, are ISN H40 (slightly over budget) the Meze Rai Solo (again slightly over) and the KBEAR Believe (no longer in production but you might find stray stock).
> 
> Quite frankly the Starseas are the best fit, given you said: "_*more neutral sound (less treble fatiguing), bigger soundstage". *_I would suggest you read up on them. These are exceptionally good IEMs (some say they are almost as good as the U12T) for around the price range you stated, exceptional value.





r31ya said:


> a  fair bit pricier than your price, but if you want great multi driver in $100~200 space.
> Either go Tri Starsea, Thieaudio legacy 3, or BQEYZ Spring 2


Thank you for your suggestions!
After buying a good dac I will definitely buy the TRI Starsea, highly recommended by this forum


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Sebulr said:


> Mine doesn't give a low battery warning till it gets very low.


Is it? Maybe I have one from an older batch or something then.


----------



## cappuchino (May 8, 2021)

IMPORTANT UPDATE ON THE AZ09:

KZ, I hope this is not a QC issue. I don't know why I didn't try it with the STM yesterday, but glad I did today...

I just can't fit the AZ09 with the STM unless forced. The feeling's like trying to jam a key, similar to the correct one, but not meant for that lock? It'll go in and twist, yes. But does it feel right? Trying to remove the connection was a nightmare.

I do think that filing away from the inside to enlarge it will work but I currently do not have the tools for that.


So...

Works flawlessly with DQ6
Fits but not perfectly with T1 Plus
Connects when forced but is scary with STM


----------



## PhonoPhi

ChrisOc said:


> I would suggest TRI I3, if you are considering something other than KZ sphere.


I was thinking of TRI I3 as a planar to try/experience (now with two pins and $120 deals it is seriously tempting though I hardly need another IEM to add to 55+...).

How does I3 compare to SFR MT300 and piezo hybrids/tribrids in terms of detail retrieval and coherence?


----------



## ChrisOc

PhonoPhi said:


> I was thinking of TRI I3 as a planar to try/experience (now with two pins and $120 deals it is seriously tempting though I hardly need another IEM to add to 55+...).
> 
> How does I3 compare to SFR MT300 and piezo hybrids/tribrids in terms of detail retrieval and coherence?


Very interesting question. I am trying to dredge my memory to answer your question, but it seems wrong to do that, so give me some time and I will get back to you......now I am curious too!


----------



## 1clearhead

PhonoPhi said:


> I was thinking of TRI I3 as a planar to try/experience (now with two pins and $120 deals it is seriously tempting though I hardly need another IEM to add to 55+...).
> 
> How does I3 compare to SFR MT300 and piezo hybrids/tribrids in terms of detail retrieval and coherence?


I don't have the TRI 13, but to get a better idea on how the SFR MT300 with EST drivers compares to others like the LZ A7, NM2+, and SFR MT100, I wrote a review on it back in February 2021.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/post-16184539

-Clear


----------



## Oruzitch

cappuchino said:


> IMPORTANT UPDATE ON THE AZ09:
> 
> KZ, I hope this is not a QC issue. I don't know why I didn't try it with the STM yesterday, but glad I did today...
> 
> ...


That seems to be normal honestly, i have 2 aftermarket 0.78mm straight pin, a cheap nicehck 16 core and a xinhs 8 core.

The nicehck fits like a glove with kz zsx/dq6, blon 01 and nf na2.
But the xinhs was really tough with blon 01 and nf na2.


----------



## cappuchino

Oruzitch said:


> That seems to be normal honestly, i have 2 aftermarket 0.78mm straight pin, a cheap nicehck 16 core and a xinhs 8 core.
> 
> The nicehck fits like a glove with kz zsx/dq6, blon 01 and nf na2.
> But the xinhs was really tough with blon 01 and nf na2.


It's not the pins that's the problem. It's the housing (?) itself of the male QDC.

I wouldn't have mentioned it if the pins itself fit tight.

I'll include pictures in my full review


----------



## Oruzitch

cappuchino said:


> It's not the pins that's the problem. It's the housing (?) itself of the male QDC.
> 
> I wouldn't have mentioned it if the pins itself fit tight.
> 
> I'll include pictures in my full review


Ahh, ive seen people heat the qdc connector to mold it to the blon rectangular connector, maybe that can help.


----------



## cappuchino

Oruzitch said:


> Ahh, ive seen people heat the qdc connector to mold it to the blon rectangular connector, maybe that can help.


Currently don't have the courage to do that until I finish the review. Though I still don't think I'll be brave enough after posting the review 😅🤔

You have a link for that? It got me curious as I have a BL-Mini here as well as the 2021 Au, Ag, Cu cable from KZ.


----------



## Oruzitch

cappuchino said:


> Currently don't have the courage to do that until I finish the review. Though I still don't think I'll be brave enough after posting the review 😅🤔
> 
> You have a link on that? It got me curious as I have a BL-Mini here as well as the 2021 Au, Ag, Cu cable from KZ.


It was discussed somewhere (probably the blon threat) in headfi dont remember where or when sadly, also saw some aliexpress reviews of cables that were bought with qdc for blon iems and the customer had to heat the sleeve for it to fit.

Cant do it with my blon 01 since i decided to go the more permanent way of just removing plastic from the iem connector to fit qdc.


----------



## slex

Picture are deceiving.Look how small is KZ A09. Initial thought it was the size of Fiio UTWS3.


----------



## slex

cappuchino said:


> Are you referring to this listing?
> 
> 
> I noticed that it's a common practice in these stores that instead of creating a new listing, they just add a new option to an existing one.
> ...


Does your source ( phone?)using 5.2 bluetooth chip?


----------



## cappuchino (May 9, 2021)

slex said:


> Does your source ( phone?)using 5.2 bluetooth chip?


Oppo Reno 4. Bluetooth 5.1 capable up to APTX HD. I'm assuming the battery life I'm getting would improve with a device that has Bluetooth 5.2.

Won't be buying a new one as I won that off a raffle during a family celebration and I'm not much of a phone person, most especially in this time of pandemic (what with the lockdowns) 😅😂

Have you tried the AZ09 yet? If so, with what IEMs? I'm curious if my unit's the only one that has the issue with the QDC connection.


----------



## slex

cappuchino said:


> Oppo Reno 4. Bluetooth 5.1 capable up to APTX HD.
> 
> Won't be buying a new one as I won that off a raffle during a family celebration and I'm not much of a phone person, most especially in this time of pandemic (what with the lockdowns) 😅😂
> 
> Have you tried the AZ09 yet? If so, with what IEMs? I'm curious if my unit's the only one that has the issue with the QDC connection.


Yes , for $27 is a steal. More comfortable then TRN & Fiio due to its featherweight lightness. SQ is better then TRN, noise level same as Fiio but lesser sounstaging. Did you enable performance mode?😊


----------



## slex

L+R orientation same as TRN🤣


----------



## cappuchino (May 9, 2021)

-deleted-


----------



## slex

cappuchino said:


> It's actually available for 16 USD on Shopee on most stores.
> 
> I much prefer high performance/low latency mode over standard. Delay is noticeable with the latter on media consumption. A fair tradeoff of ~2 hours for that low latency.
> 
> ...


No, i fit it wrongly when picture is taken!😄


----------



## baskingshark (May 9, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> I was thinking of TRI I3 as a planar to try/experience (now with two pins and $120 deals it is seriously tempting though I hardly need another IEM to add to 55+...).
> 
> How does I3 compare to SFR MT300 and piezo hybrids/tribrids in terms of detail retrieval and coherence?



The TRI I3 is not really a pure planar, as the planars inside it just handle the mids (The DD handles the bass and the BA handles the treble).
So considering it is a weird mishmash of 1 DD + 1 planar + 1 BA, it is very coherent, U shaped tuning, rather smooth and bassy.
The TRI I3 is bordering on dark in the treble, and I think you are a treblehead, so that is just something to take note of. There's a 3 kHz peak (I consider this upper mids) that can be jarring at louder volumes (Fletcher Munson Curve) or in poorly recorded music, but by and large it is quite an inoffensive tuning. Bass is one level shy of basshead levels in quantity. So by and large, it is rather coherent in tuning, compared to some other multi driver CHIFI types I've heard that have too slow bass DD compared to treble BA, or those with obvious crossover points.

TRI I3 needs amping though, cause of the planars, sounds meh from lower powered sources. When amped, the planar mids are thick and lush and the soundstage is very big in height and depth for this $100 price bracket.

The shells are also large and heavy, so I do get discomfort with them for longer usages.

If I compare it against other piezos that I have eg LZ A7, the TRI I3 won't beat them in terms of pure detail retrieval, as we discussed the treble is darkish so there's some loss of micro details there. Piezos generally have a lot of air and treble extension, but they tend to have poor timbral accuracy if not tuned properly. TRI I3 is more towards an analoguish smooth tuning with rolled off treble.


----------



## RikudouGoku

cappuchino said:


> Oppo Reno 4. Bluetooth 5.1 capable up to APTX HD. I'm assuming the battery life I'm getting would improve with a device that has Bluetooth 5.2.
> 
> Won't be buying a new one as I won that off a raffle during a family celebration and I'm not much of a phone person, most especially in this time of pandemic (what with the lockdowns) 😅😂
> 
> Have you tried the AZ09 yet? If so, with what IEMs? I'm curious if my unit's the only one that has the issue with the QDC connection.





https://audio46.com/blogs/headphones/bluetooth-5-1-vs-5-2

Probably wont be any difference actually, since you would need the new LC3 codec which I dont think that TWS has.


----------



## Nimweth

I have been enjoying my ZS7 this morning. Bass: awesome. Soundstage: awesome. Musicality: awesome. Along with the BA10 the best KZ ever. I have
 found this purchase link:
https://gbr.grandado.com/products/k...-as10-zst-zsn-pro-zs10?variant=36497129635989
Come on, KZ, bring it back!


----------



## r31ya

Nimweth said:


> I have been enjoying my ZS7 this morning. Bass: awesome. Soundstage: awesome. Musicality: awesome. Along with the BA10 the best KZ ever. I have
> found this purchase link:
> https://gbr.grandado.com/products/k...-as10-zst-zsn-pro-zs10?variant=36497129635989
> Come on, KZ, bring it back!


My only gripe with ZS7 is the square shell which contrast greatly at the time i audition it as i compare it to more comfortable ZS10 Pro.
That being said ZS7 bass and airiness is something that ZS10 pro can't touch.


----------



## ChrisOc

PhonoPhi said:


> I was thinking of TRI I3 as a planar to try/experience (now with two pins and $120 deals it is seriously tempting though I hardly need another IEM to add to 55+...).
> 
> How does I3 compare to SFR MT300 and piezo hybrids/tribrids in terms of detail retrieval and coherence?


Guys forgive me for posting non-KZ related discussion here.

MT300 and TRI i3 Comparison:

These two are quite close in abilities and both quite satisfying to me.

Both IEMs are tribrids, so they each have a DD (handling bass for both) and BA (handling mids on the MT300 and highs on the I3). Additionally the MT300 has a TDK electrostatic driver for the highs while the I3 has a Planar magnetic driver for the mids. As you can imagine with a planar magnetic driver and electrostatic tweeter, they both shine when given lots of power but will not disappoint on a mobile phone.

They both sound very good to my ears. I have had great fun comparing these two. 

The MT300 has good sub-bass with a mid-bass which has good impact. Overall the MT300 bass, is well defined, has good texture and is impactful. The TRI I3 on the other hand, has a highly potent sub-bass, which reminds me of REL subwoofers, in the background subtlety transmitting to you the viseral notes in your music....hmm! Sometimes, just sometimes, you want to feel your bass rather than be hit over the head with bass, the I3 does sub-bass so well. Again they both do mid-bass very well, so that bass is not just slam, it has definition, body and weight, while being dynamic, good quality bass, not just hard-hitting.

The MT300 mids are delightful and render voices and instruments with much detail and texture. Although, the two IEMs are not very far apart in their mids, I have to say, the planar magnetic driver gives the I3s a touch more than most Balanced Amatures can deliver. For me, every note rendered by the planar magnetic driver just sounds correct, whatever type of music I am listening to.

Highs on the MT300 are definitely incredibly pleasant and to me better than the I3s' highs. The detail retrieval across the two IEMs is very good, although neither is tuned to have you standing at attention analysing each and every note, they are both tuned to be more musical than analytical yet both retrieve substantial detail so you do not miss out on anything. The TDK electrostatic tweeter on the MT300 raises the bar a touch above the highs on the I3s.

The great thing about both sets is the natural timbre of instruments. To my ears, whether I am listening to piano, double bass, drums, cymbals, cello or saxophone.....etc, they both sound so realistic, near perfect timbral accuracy.

I hope I have given you a fair idea about how the MT300 and the TRI I3 compare to each other. It is a shame that the price of MT300 has gone back up, but I think we all played a part in raising the price here on Head-fi.






I used Dunu DUW02 cables on both of them (2 pin to MMCX converter) with the same set of silicone tips, plugged into the Fiio BTR5.





Both sets are really good, but if I was forced to choose one set, it will have to be the TRI I3s, the sub-bass speaks to me!

Now time for me to read @1clearhead's comparison of the MT300 and LZ A7.


----------



## cappuchino

> I'm panicking right now. Charge indicator doesn't light up when I try plugging it in. Yesterday it was working just fine. Draining the AZ09 to check if it will still charge... Will update you guys within an hour.



UPDATE: Case still charges the AZ09 Bluetooth module but the light indicator for battery left (red/yellow/green) of the case doesn't work anymore.


I hope yours isn't like this, @slex as the AZ09 is a truly wonderful product.


----------



## slex

cappuchino said:


> UPDATE: Case still charges the AZ09 Bluetooth module but the light indicator for battery left (red/yellow/green) of the case doesn't work anymore.
> 
> 
> I hope yours isn't like this, @slex as the AZ09 is a truly wonderful product.


Ok noted, will monitor that fault of yours. Hope you could get a replacement?


----------



## cappuchino

slex said:


> Ok noted, will monitor that fault of yours. Hope you could get a replacement?


I've contacted them already, though I sent the message late in the afternoon. They also have their own lives to live (not sure of the working hours in China but I have agents reply to my message early in the morning or even midnight which leaves me surprised and curious every time) and the AZ09 still technically works so I'm in no rush for a reply from them 😅

This is a review unit and I'd be happy to just receive the actual charging case itself   If not, then it's still fine.

By the way, have you tried it with an IEM other than the ZAX? How'd the AZ09 fit?


----------



## slex

cappuchino said:


> I've contacted them already, though I sent the message late in the afternoon. They also have their own lives to live (not sure of the working hours in China but I have agents reply to my message early in the morning or even midnight which leaves me surprised and curious every time) and the AZ09 still technically works so I'm in no rush for a reply from them 😅
> 
> This is a review unit and I'd be happy to just receive the actual charging case itself   If not, then it's still fine.
> 
> By the way, have you tried it with an IEM other than the ZAX? How'd the AZ09 fit?


Ok, just the ZAX only at the moment.Fitted well. Later stage will try CCA CSN see whether would fit.


----------



## Nimweth

ChrisOc said:


> Guys forgive me for posting non-KZ related discussion here.
> 
> MT300 and TRI i3 Comparison:
> 
> ...


That's a very good comparison and tallies with my experience. Both of these are in my top three along with the Starsea.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well I am working on my own preference target and here is the EQ used on the DQ6 to try to simulate my current target (WIP).


Preamp: -4db
low-shelf: 80hz, Q: 0.6, gain: 2.5db
peak: 550hz, Q:1.4, gain: 1.3db
peak 2100hz, Q:2.5, gain: -3.db
peak: 3560hz, Q: 2.87, gain: 3.3db
peak: 5200hz, Q: 5.76, gain: -6db
peak: 6000hz, Q: 11.54, gain: -3db
peak: 7800hz, Q: 5.5, gain: -7.8db
peak: 10 300hz, Q: 11.54, gain: -7db
high-shelf: 11 000hz, Q: 0.6, gain: 4.db


This removes all the peaks on the DQ6 making it a lot more relaxing and non-fatiguing and even more fun with more sub-bass that doesnt cause any extra bloat.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

cappuchino said:


> UPDATE: Case still charges the AZ09 Bluetooth module but the light indicator for battery left (red/yellow/green) of the case doesn't work anymore.
> 
> 
> I hope yours isn't like this, @slex as the AZ09 is a truly wonderful product.


It's very standard of such BT conductors. My TRN BT20S began showing similar symptoms before going completely bust couple of months down the line. Although, my BT20 didn't go bust but the right piece lost it's lights after 15-20 days. It's just that they use poor quality LED bulb which goes kaput after a few cycles.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> Well I am working on my own preference target and here is the EQ used on the DQ6 to try to simulate my current target (WIP).
> 
> 
> Preamp: -4db
> ...


Can you post the curve of your EQ? Somehow looks very similar to Oratory's U-sound curve if I'm not wrong


----------



## RikudouGoku

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Can you post the curve of your EQ? Somehow looks very similar to Oratory's U-sound curve if I'm not wrong






Still in WIP, so there might be changes before the finished target.


----------



## Nimweth

Really enjoying the ZS7 again. If you have one, try this, wonderful!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> Still in WIP, so there might be changes before the finished target.


Yep very much in line with the Harman Target curve (2017) for IEM. I'm using something similar for my T2 and I very much like that sound. Sibilance is gone, bass is more authorative and mids have slight oomph to make things great for lively music.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Yep very much in line with the Harman Target curve (2017) for IEM. I'm using something similar for my T2 and I very much like that sound. Sibilance is gone, bass is more authorative and mids have slight oomph to make things great for lively music.


Its quite different from harman.




(Oxygen is probably the closest to harman I got.)


----------



## MusicalChillies

Been out of the IEM game for years and can`t believe what they are putting in these cheap iems these days. Just ordered some KZ ZS10 pro`s just use on a walk.


----------



## whirlwind

MusicalChillies said:


> Been out of the IEM game for years and can`t believe what they are putting in these cheap iems these days. Just ordered some KZ ZS10 pro`s just use on a walk.


Ha...yeah I did the same not long ago....under $50 will get you nice satisfying sound. Even less if need be.


----------



## MusicalChillies

whirlwind said:


> Ha...yeah I did the same not long ago....under $50 will get you nice satisfying sound. Even less if need be.


How times have moved on hey, even the website here lol (messed up sig etc). Hope you are ok mate.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (May 9, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Its quite different from harman.
> 
> 
> (Oxygen is probably the closest to harman I got.)


Yes because I have slightly tweaked the band 2,5 and 10. To get them to my liking. It is my derivative of Harman which suits my music library better. That's why I said something similar. Exact curves are attached here.


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> The TRI I3 is not really a pure planar, as the planars inside it just handle the mids (The DD handles the bass and the BA handles the treble).
> So considering it is a weird mishmash of 1 DD + 1 planar + 1 BA, it is very coherent, U shaped tuning, rather smooth and bassy.
> The TRI I3 is bordering on dark in the treble, and I think you are a treblehead, so that is just something to take note of. There's a 3 kHz peak (I consider this upper mids) that can be jarring at louder volumes (Fletcher Munson Curve) or in poorly recorded music, but by and large it is quite an inoffensive tuning. Bass is one level shy of basshead levels in quantity. So by and large, it is rather coherent in tuning, compared to some other multi driver CHIFI types I've heard that have too slow bass DD compared to treble BA, or those with obvious crossover points.
> 
> ...





ChrisOc said:


> Guys forgive me for posting non-KZ related discussion here.
> 
> MT300 and TRI i3 Comparison:
> 
> ...





Nimweth said:


> That's a very good comparison and tallies with my experience. Both of these are in my top three along with the Starsea.


Thank you for the great wealth of information and comparison, I really appreciate it. It makes it really hard to resist TRI I3 at its current deal to experience planars 
I actually hoped that KZ would start to introduce piezo, planars and electrostats/magnetostats, did not happen so far...


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Anyone tried this for ZAX/ZSN pro x?
US $19.65  41％ Off | KZ AZ09 HD Bluetooth Module Wireless Upgrade Cable Bluetooth 5.2 HIFI Wireless Ear Hook C PIN Connector With Charging Case
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPRpz1n


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 10, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> Thank you for the great wealth of information and comparison, I really appreciate it. It makes it really hard to resist TRI I3 at its current deal to experience planars
> I actually hoped that KZ would start to introduce piezo, planars and electrostats/magnetostats, did not happen so far...


ZEST is what I’m hoping😆
2DD(double XUN structure with LCP diaphragm, like those used in Moondrop Aria/ BQEYZ Summer)
+
3BA (2 full range, 1 midrange in nozzle for clearer voice) to support frequency transitions between different types of drivers
+
1 Planer for Mid
+
2EST (inhouse

Price? $129😳 will be amazing.
-Refine tuned ZAX with in-house EST, remove couple of bellsing 30095 to reduce treble fatigue. Add one mid range BA in nozzle just like TRN VX


----------



## MusicalChillies

The KZ ZS10 pros arrived today. Settled on an old pair of foam tips, think they were Comply tips but round with a grey centre filter (tames the brittle high end)
Played around on youtube with my Galaxy S9 phone and considering these things cost £42, their effort with Noisia is damn good, fast and can pack a thump.

Will use them through an amp and an ipod but heck, at this price times have changed massively. Yeah you don`t have a Stage diver 3 soundstage etc but a thumbs for for what do you say these days? Chi-fi?


----------



## PhonoPhi

AmericanSpirit said:


> ZEST is what I’m hoping😆
> 2DD(double XUN structure with LCP diaphragm, like those used in Moondrop Aria/ BQEYZ Summer)
> +
> 3BA (2 full range, 1 midrange in nozzle for clearer voice) to support frequency transitions between different types of drivers
> ...


That would be a dream 

Then even ZAX with a tighter punchier bass would be a winner - more mid BAs and dedicate XUN only to below 65 Hz!


----------



## Alpha Whale (May 10, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> I have been enjoying my ZS7 this morning. Bass: awesome. Soundstage: awesome. Musicality: awesome. Along with the BA10 the best KZ ever. I have
> found this purchase link:
> https://gbr.grandado.com/products/k...-as10-zst-zsn-pro-zs10?variant=36497129635989
> Come on, KZ, bring it back!



I've decided to just stick with Amazon for purchases right now which does limit my access to what is available elsewhere. 
If the ZS7 ever shows up on Amazon (doubt it) I'll pick up two sets.

Love my ZS6 (v1) but I understand that the ZS7 sounds nothing like it.
A while back someone had advised that the ZS7 sounds very similar to the BQ3.
Is this true?

Which KZ offers a presentation that is most similar to the ZS7?

Thanks in advance.



ZS10pro, ZSX, CKX and BQ3 are in my collection.

I like the ZS10pro  but the ZSX is smoother.
I like the ZSX but the CKX is more refined.
I don't necessarily need another IEM but the ZS7 would be a nice addition.
I figure it will fit nicely between the BA10 and ZS6 or between the BA10 and ZSX
depending on the ZS7's presentation.

My current budget-fi collection spans from:
a) buttery smooth (C10) to fatigue-free detail (KB100) in warm IEMs
b) clean and smooth (BA10) to high detail (AS12) in analytical IEMs

Currently enjoying the Tin T3, Tin T1, DQ6 and an occasional AS12.



p.s. - Just an FYI,  this new KZ cable looks fantastic on my brushed aluminum CKX






but it is also slightly more bulky than KZ's new copper and new silver cables of similar build. Just be aware in case you prefer slimmer 8-core or 16-core cables.
It is definitely thicker than my Tripowin Zonie 16-core cables.



Spoiler









Looks can be deceiving.


----------



## Sebulr

My kz AZ09 arrived today, they are lot more comfortable than the trn BT20 and smaller. The cable is slightly longer and has no metal wire and the housing is thinner and smaller. A very slight noise floor with them that gets louder as the volume increases. I have stuck my kz zs10 pros on them, as the connectors have cracked on mine. They are staying on them. Can't comment on the battery life yet.


----------



## Nimweth (May 10, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> I've decided to just stick with Amazon for purchases right now which does limit my access to what is available elsewhere.
> If the ZS7 ever shows up on Amazon (doubt it) I'll pick up two sets.
> 
> Love my ZS6 (v1) but I understand that the ZS7 sounds nothing like it.
> ...


ZS7 is kind of a blend of ZS10 Pro, (big, bold and exciting) and the BA10.  It has the same BAs (29869, 31005 and 2x30095) as the BA10, so it sounds similar in the mids and treble, plus a 10mm DD instead of the 22955 BA, in a 4 way configuration. The DD in the ZS7 has prodigious bass, the best sub-bass you will hear. Soundstage is very expansive and three dimensional. Whenever I listen to music on the ZS7 there is a smile on my face and there cannot be a better testimonial than that! BTW I also enjoy the Tin T3, it's my favourite Tin IEM.


----------



## IEMusic

PhonoPhi said:


> Then even ZAX with a tighter punchier bass would be a winner - more mid BAs and dedicate XUN only to below 65 Hz!


I agree, the ZAX has so much going for it.  The upper mids and treble are very good.  Upper treble air is very well extended, yet remarkably smooth sounding.  A better DD, that’s faster and more detailed, would make it quite an exceptional IEM.  I would also personally like it if they toned down the mid bass/upper bass a little.  A tuning like the Dawn/Dusk would be perfect IMO.  Novel and exotic drivers are often an unnecessary expense.


----------



## ephrank

Recently discovered the fantastic AutoEq repository! ... but it doesn't have a profile for AS12.

Anyone know which other KZ model has the closest frequency response curve to the AS12?


----------



## Nimweth

Anyone who thinks bass BAs can't deliver,  try the BA10. The 22955 in there really plumbs the depths. It goes much deeper than C16, CS16, TRN BA5 or Aiderlot M5. On this track it is remarkable: __


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Anyone who thinks bass BAs can't deliver,  try the BA10. The 22955 in there really plumbs the depths. It goes much deeper than C16, CS16, TRN BA5 or Aiderlot M5. On this track it is remarkable: __



Nice track!
I agree that BA10 bass is deeper than that of C16, AS16 and crispier than that of AS10. Then AS12 to me is a bass star (all with the same good old 22955, AS12 with two).


----------



## ChrisOc

Nimweth said:


> Anyone who thinks bass BAs can't deliver,  try the BA10. The 22955 in there really plumbs the depths. It goes much deeper than C16, CS16, TRN BA5 or Aiderlot M5. On this track it is remarkable: __



Thank you @Nimweth, I am listening to "Awakening" on the Knowles 22955 TRI Starshines as I write.

It is good to know that there is a reference point in the BA10 for those who want to know how potent this Knowles Balanced Amature bass is.


----------



## PhonoPhi

ChrisOc said:


> Thank you @Nimweth, I am listening to "Awakening" on the Knowles 22955 TRI Starshines as I write.
> 
> It is good to know that there is a reference point in the BA10 for those who want to know how potent this Knowles Balanced Amature bass is.


KZ does not use Knowles, just the same numbers for copying them...
Actually Knowles 22955 in one of my set feel more gentle.
Other BAs - different story.


----------



## Alpha Whale (May 11, 2021)

ephrank said:


> Recently discovered the fantastic AutoEq repository! ... but it doesn't have a profile for AS12.
> 
> Anyone know which other KZ model has the closest frequency response curve to the AS12?



I've been collecting KZ's since 2015 and from my experience there are only a handful of KZ's that have similarities to the AS12 but the differences will be quite notable.

My response may, likely, only be helpful to a KZ veteran.

That said, here you go.

The AS12 stands alone in its presentation amongst all of its predecessors in the same way that the DQ6 and BA10 stand alone amongst every KZ model that precedes them.

My synopsis:

With most KZ's you can clearly hear the progression and improvement of a given presentation or sound signature (i.e. - ATE to ATR, ZST to ZS6, ZS10pro to ZSX).


BA10:
With the BA10 one could argue that its presentation or sound signature is reminiscent of the ZS3 sound signature, albeit an infinitely more refined ZS3 presentation.  For me, the BA10's transducers, aluminum casings and even its vented faceplates lend it a proficiency the ZS3, with its humble beginnings, could never attain.

I acknowledge the ZS3 with a thankful wink as I respectfully shelf it with its upgraded cable and its own case.  Barring isolation and timbre, my BA10 replaces my ZS3 because it outperforms it on every front.

For the most part the BA10 stands alone but its DNA is unmistakable to my ears.
The BA10 is a much cleaner and much more clear ZS3.


DQ6:
In the same way, I find myself in familiar territory with the DQ6.

What the BA10 is to the ZS3, a sucessor in spirit, the DQ6 is to KZ's ED10 of days gone by. When it was released the single dynamic driver ED10 was a long time favorite of mine. Glorious bass, at the time, with detail and energy to spare. The DQ6 does inject a tad more energy in the mid treble region that can give the DQ6 an uncomfortable edginess with the wrong eartips but if you reduce the 5-6khz region a few db then you are essentially listening to a much cleaner and much more clear ED10. So, once again, for the most part the DQ6 does stand alone but its DNA is unmistakable to my ears.


AS12:
This brings us to the AS12. There are only two KZ's from days gone by that could possibly lay claim to being of similar lineage (in spirit) to the AS12 and like the AS12 both of those IEMs were lost in shuffle or overshadowed by more popular flavor-of-the-month models.

Before I go into detail I will admit that the case I am about to make can be considered as specious or even tenuous. I wouldn't argue with that view if it ever presents itself, mainly because I am operating from memory with the two IEMs in question.

The first model had two unfortunate flaws that the AS12 solved quite handily. Like the AS12 this particular model was briefly maligned by one of its few reviewers.

The IEM in question had two things going against it right out of the gate. The first being that it's moniker suggested a lineage that the oddly tuned IEM could never live up to. This particular IEM's predecessor had been aptly dubbed "Lord Bass" by a burgeoning KZ pillar known for having a good set of ears on him. The successor to "Lord Bass" would be a prince, at best, because it would forever remain in the shadow of its progenitor.

The second count levied against said IEM was its unusual tuning. I, myself, had a love/hate relationship with it but this was primarily because the fit was atrocious. On the rare occasion that I could achieve a satisfactory fit and seal I found myself thoroughly intrigued by its presentation.

Nevertheless, be aware that both flaws of that IEM's sound signature were valid criticisms.

Ok, enough with the "cloak and dagger" machinations.

The IEM in question here is the often forgotten and often maligned ZS2.
Sift through the February 2016 and March 2016 pages of this thread for real time discussions back when the ZS2 was introduced.

I'll get right to the point here. The ZS2 suffered from rolled off treble and an occasional streak of strident behavior. However, it's saving grace was that the ZS2 responded exceptionally well to EQ adjustment and said adjustments (-2db @ 4khz and personal preference adjustments in the upper frequencies) were minimal to release this dual dynamic's full potential. It was the psychological hurdle of expectation that kept the ZS2 from ever being seriously considered.

I still have ZS2's in a box somewhere with plans to re-cable them to mitigate the atrocious fit issue but I do remember fitting them with wide bore silicone eartips to clean up the midbass and widen the soundstage. I also remember being stunned at the smooth but wide presentation. I hated the fit but I kept going back because occasionally I could hear the ZS2's real potential. The best way for me to describe what I was hearing is that the presentation, as a whole, was "airy", even the bass - which is something I hadn't heard up to that point (early 2016).

From memory, outfitting the ZS2 with wide bore silicone eartips and minor fiddling with the EQ gave the ZS2 a somewhat "airy" and balanced presentation. Yes, I am going from memory but, despite the infuriating fit, I revisited the ZS2 so many times that it left an indelible impression on the psyche of this hobbyist.

In many ways the AS12 is everything the ZS2 strove to be. Both models having a good sense of "air" with sufficient weight to the notes. Couple those attributes to the fact that no particular frequency overrode other frequencies and what  you have is something pretty special. No doubt, the dual dynamic ZS2 has better timbral accuracy but the AS12's timbre is fine if you have no aversion to balanced armatures with decent timbre.

In my opinion, the AS12 is to the BA10 what the CKX is to the ZSX.
All four are bang-for-buck gems but your personal preferences will play the biggest part in which models you would enjoy the most.

The AS12 and CKX are light and airy with just enough weight to the notes to keep you engaged and "almost" in a state of wonder when you consider the $70 price point.

The BA10 and ZSX are smoother and warmer with just enough detail to keep your foot tapping with a silly smirk on your face because you're "just feeling the music". That's great at any price but, again, when you consider the $70 +/- and $50 +/- price points, respectively, you can't help but feel like you've made the right choice in picking up either model.

So, most of the criticisms levied against the ZS2 were justified but both the ZS1 (Lord Bass) and the ZS2 respond to EQ adjustments like a champ. As a result said issues were easily rectified. To my thinking, the overriding factor in the ZS2's failure to take hold was the psychological hurdle (its moniker - ZS2) that it simply could not detach itself from because the original ZS1 was one of the earliest KZ's to be a stand-alone legend when it came to the "fun factor" for an IEM with a ridiculous price-to-performance ratio.

Almost forgot, the second model that, from memory, has similar attributes to the AS12 is the KZ HD9 which didn't leave as much of an impression as the ZS2 did. From memory, which isn't as ingrained as my memory of the ZS2, the HD9 had a unique somewhat balanced signature that erred on the brighter side of balanced.
Neither bass nor treble overshadow the midrange which can be slightly forward depending on your eartip selection.

In closing I'll say that the AS12, despite the slight BA-timbre, is definitely one of KZ's best releases. It's an absolute travesty that there isn't more feedback in the community but..... like the BA10, I have multiple sets of the AS12 and in the end I prefer them to the BA10 (probably 8 out of 10 times).

My opinion is as follows:
a) the AS12 was released at approximately the same time as the AS16
b) but the AS16 drew a lukewarm reception
c) the AS12 looks nearly identical to the AS16, hence the moniker ties that bind
d) there were initially only two reviews of the AS12 (one good and one lukewarm)
e) the ZS10 Pro had phenomenal staying power on forums so attention remained on its attributes instead of the newer models and the AS12 slipped into obscurity.

In my opinion, due to these factors the AS12 has suffered in reverse what the ZS2 suffered several years earlier. The AS12 has been treading water, not because it was launched in the wake of an oil tanker but because it was launched in the wake of a very nice but identical looking yacht (the AS16) that just seemed to miss the mark. As a result, analysis paralysis created a vacuum for the voices and psychological hurdles that simply fill one's head with more questions than answers.

The AS12 is sort of a victim of KZ's own successes and failures with their rapid fire releases of one model after another. That said, once in a while we do get something quite noteworthy that unfortunately just slips through the cracks.

Be that as it may, the AS12 affords one of the most balanced presentations of any KZ release since the original EDR2 and it ranks very highly in my own KZ collection.

FULL STOP.






p.s. - had to edit that post heavily for it to flow properly


----------



## PhonoPhi (May 11, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> I've been collecting KZ's since 2015 and from my experience there are only a handful of KZ's that have similarities to the AS12 but the differences will be quite notable.
> 
> My response may, likely, only be helpful to a KZ veteran.
> 
> ...


My brief "contarian opinion" on AS12:
I do very much respect and enjoy AS12 bass, really one of the best BA-bass out there.

I am an ardent all-BA fun, and can tolerate BA tonality distortion/pecularities quite well, I think.
Having said this, AS12 are quite off tonally for me, most evident with the orchestral brass.
The reason for that is the treble that is heavly (really heavily) dampened in AS12 by the treble filter.
I have these filters removed, and do enjoy AS12 much more in this modified form, but then infamous A10/KB10 are gentler in treble than non- modified AS12 

I do think that AS12 are great for the price to enjoy one of the best BA bass, but then to me AS12 are really a "specialty" IEM rather "not for everyone".

P. S. AS12 potential is really great, if one can make their own treble filtering.


----------



## Alpha Whale

PhonoPhi said:


> My brief "contarian opinion" on AS12:
> I do very much respect and enjoy AS12 bass, really one of the best BA-bass out there.
> 
> I am an ardent all-BA fun, and can tolerate BA tonality distortion/pecularities quite well, I think.
> ...


 Thanks for the feedback.  I'm just glad that the AS12 holds interest for someone else on the thread.

I'll take your suggestion and experiment with modding the treble filter on one of my AS12's. 

I was not a fan of the CCA A10/KB EAR KB10 treble presentation. Violin concertos, sonatas and partitas were rendered quite well but the pleasantries ended there. 

The AS12 handles Perlman's Bach Chaconne very well.


----------



## ephrank

@Alpha Whale Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts on the KZ lineup. My, that's some in depth information there. Still trying to re-read and digest them.

I agree that the AS12's timbre is very good for an all-BA, hard to fault it when listening to pop/rock. Had about 10 hours or so listeining to my pair so far. Hopefully will share some thoughts about them after some more hours.


----------



## cappuchino

I have posted my review of the KZ AZ09.

In there I talk about its features, sound, connectivity, battery efficiency, issues, and many more which I hope can help you in your decision. If you have the time, I would deeply appreciate you guys reading it and for any advice on how I can further improve my reviews in the future.

Stay safe everyone!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-az09.25142/review/25844/


----------



## cappuchino (May 12, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> I have posted my review of the KZ AZ09.
> 
> In there I talk about its features, sound, connectivity, battery efficiency, issues, and many more which I hope can help you in your decision. If you have the time, I would deeply appreciate you guys reading it and for any advice on how I can further improve my reviews in the future.
> 
> ...


Uhmmmmm... So yeah. I guess I'd just reshell it? Perks of having 3 dogs in the house ಥ‿ಥ One of them got hungry...

Life really likes these kind of stuff. Just a few moments after posting my review and this happens.


----------



## saldsald (May 12, 2021)

So I modded my CCA CST - converted it into mmcx and rotated the nozzle angle. The sound was a bit harsh and peaky with the stock cable and now it is better. Not too impressive thou but not bad at all. The sound is quite warm and inviting just not enough separation.


----------



## slex

cappuchino said:


> Uhmmmmm... So yeah. I guess I'd just reshell it? Perks of having 3 dogs in the house ಥ‿ಥ One of them got hungry...
> 
> Life really likes these kind of stuff. Just a few moments after posting my review and this happens.


Your 🐕have good taste 🙂


----------



## cappuchino

slex said:


> Your 🐕have good taste 🙂


Hhahahaha. More like he puts everything he sees in his mouth 😂🤣


----------



## Nimweth

Alpha Whale said:


> I've been collecting KZ's since 2015 and from my experience there are only a handful of KZ's that have similarities to the AS12 but the differences will be quite notable.
> 
> My response may, likely, only be helpful to a KZ veteran.
> 
> ...


I do not have the AS12,  but I agree with you about the ZSX, CKX and BA10. I would definitely add the ZS7 to the list, though, it is worthy of a place in the KZ "Hall of Fame".


----------



## MusicalChillies

After a couple of days with the KS ZS10 pro, kind of proves to me this price point seemed too good to be true. The brittle upper mid/treble (female vocal) bothers the hell out of me, no matter which tips. Decent low end but too artificial to me.

Is there anything sub £100 that is as smooth as a Westone 4?


----------



## CK Moustache

MusicalChillies said:


> After a couple of days with the KS ZS10 pro, kind of proves to me this price point seemed too good to be true. The brittle upper mid/treble (female vocal) bothers the hell out of me, no matter which tips. Decent low end but too artificial to me.
> 
> Is there anything sub £100 that is as smooth as a Westone 4?



Not really anything from Knowledge Zenith, unfortunately.

The EARNiNE EN210, Fidue A65 or Akoustyx R-210 might be right up your alley, provided you can somehow get your hands on any of them. I'd especially recommend the EARNiNE.


----------



## PhonoPhi

MusicalChillies said:


> After a couple of days with the KS ZS10 pro, kind of proves to me this price point seemed too good to be true. The brittle upper mid/treble (female vocal) bothers the hell out of me, no matter which tips. Decent low end but too artificial to me.
> 
> Is there anything sub £100 that is as smooth as a Westone 4?


KZ ZAX would be two generations of improvements over ZS10 pro for more refined treble and more contained bass. Read the reviews, and then for ZSX as well.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Thanks for your responses guys.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Just read this on the KAZ review so that`s ruled the out and other variants unfortunately. Exactly what I think about the 10 pro.

I think it is again a local (Europe, Asia etc.) discussion why the highs always have to have this subliminal aggressiveness with KZ. Personally, I'm slowly getting tired of it and long for more relaxation and real quality, instead of always simulating it with an artificial build-up. The trebles have this basic metallic character, which almost always resonates with KZ. You get used to it, but BA drivers can also do differently. The trebles provide a very good transparency and details, but the naturalness is a bit lost. In addition the sibilants are annoying and I can't attest the ZAX a fatigue-free audibility.


----------



## IEMusic

MusicalChillies said:


> Thanks for your responses guys.


In the KZ world, I’d seriously look into the DQ6.  It’s is very impressive IMO, and no BAs.


----------



## Mellowship

Does anyone remember the KZ HDS1? 
Found my pair at the bottom of a box. I didn't like them at the time and I had forgotten I still had them, but gave them a try with new equipment, namely a Shanling UP4.
Well, they are just lots of fun if -and only if - they are given enough power. In the low gain mode they sound muddy and sloppy, but as the gain goes up (and the volume goes down), the muddiness goes away. They shine the best in dual DAC mode. And they have a really nice soundstage.
This is from a time KZ had great 6mm DDs, and I can only imagine what they could sound like if KZ went to the trouble of tuning them properly, which is what is expected from a IEM brand... 
They are also so small and comfy that I am tented to sleep with them for the next few days. 
I wanted to insert a photo of them with the UP4, but the image upload tools are not working properly.


----------



## baskingshark

MusicalChillies said:


> Just read this on the KAZ review so that`s ruled the out and other variants unfortunately. Exactly what I think about the 10 pro.
> 
> I think it is again a local (Europe, Asia etc.) discussion why the highs always have to have this subliminal aggressiveness with KZ. Personally, I'm slowly getting tired of it and long for more relaxation and real quality, instead of always simulating it with an artificial build-up. The trebles have this basic metallic character, which almost always resonates with KZ. You get used to it, but BA drivers can also do differently. The trebles provide a very good transparency and details, but the naturalness is a bit lost. In addition the sibilants are annoying and I can't attest the ZAX a fatigue-free audibility.



The general KZ house tuning is V shaped with boosted treble (there are exceptions, but that is the general profile).

If u want something less fatiguing in the treble, you can read about these sets:

1) *Final Audio E3000* - needs amping, dark V shaped set. A bit bloated bass but imaging and instrument separation is very good at the sub $50 range. Much better timbral accuracy than the garden variety multi BA/hybrid KZ.
2)* BLON BL-03* - harmanish with midbass bump. Fit is an issue, most of us have to use longer nozzle aftermarket tips, but when fitted well, it has super tonality and timbre. Midbass quite bloated and not the best technicalities, but it is an analoguish sounding set for slower genres.
3)* iBasso IT00 *- U shaped set, massive subbass. Treble not the most pronounced, not too bad technicalities and timbre. Unfortunately has driver flex.

The garden variety multi driver KZs will beat these 3 sets in technicalities like imaging, instrument separation, details. But these 3 single DD sets prioritize timbre/tonality over outright pure technicalities. So depends what u are looking for in your music.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Cheers mate, taken a punt on the Fiio FD1 for now (Still have a Fiio `Alpen` amp also)

My problem is that over the years I have heard some decent (expensive) IEM`s and doesn`t make this price range/performance that easy. I am not throwing money at this game anymore so see how this punt goes.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

MusicalChillies said:


> Cheers mate, taken a punt on the Fiio FD1 for now (Still have a Fiio `Alpen` amp also)
> 
> My problem is that over the years I have heard some decent (expensive) IEM`s and doesn`t make this price range/performance that easy. I am not throwing money at this game anymore so see how this punt goes.


The law of diminishing returns hits everyone at different levels. For some it's at $50, some at $100 and some at $1000 or more.

The higher spends IMO should always be made after a demo or trial. Blind buys over $50 is always a hit and a miss.


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> So I modded my CCA CST - converted it into mmcx and rotated the nozzle angle. The sound was a bit harsh and peaky with the stock cable and now it is better. Not too impressive thou but not bad at all. The sound is quite warm and inviting just not enough separation.


And this is the current condition of my CSN:


----------



## Wgibson

saldsald said:


> And this is the current condition of my CSN:



I bought a pair just to see what I can fit in that shell with all the extra space. 10mm planar with a smaller DD for bass, maybe a different BA in that original spot.


----------



## saldsald

Wgibson said:


> I bought a pair just to see what I can fit in that shell with all the extra space. 10mm planar with a smaller DD for bass, maybe a different BA in that original spot.


The CSN is very decent to start with IMO so you may want to keep the XUN driver there. Speaking of space you can almost put whatever you want inside. I also planned to try replace the KZ 30095 with Knowels 30095 but that will cost more than the IEM, lol.


----------



## Wgibson

saldsald said:


> The CSN is very decent to start with IMO so you may want to keep the XUN driver there. Speaking of space you can almost put whatever you want inside. I also planned to try replace the KZ 30095 with Knowels 30095 but that will cost more than the IEM, lol.



Mmm, not necessarily, but I will definitely listen before I chop it up.

1) I'll keep the xun drivers but not in that shell
2) I'm in the US and I use superbuy, you can shop on taobao, knowles 30095 or 33518 you can get for less than 15 bucks. Even on aliexpress the 33518 is less than 15 shipped, 30095 is more. So that with a 33518 might be nice, and you can tweak the crossover


----------



## saldsald

Wgibson said:


> Mmm, not necessarily, but I will definitely listen before I chop it up.
> 
> 1) I'll keep the xun drivers but not in that shell
> 2) I'm in the US and I use superbuy, you can shop on taobao, knowles 30095 or 33518 you can get for less than 15 bucks. Even on aliexpress the 33518 is less than 15 shipped, 30095 is more. So that with a 33518 might be nice, and you can tweak the crossover


I bet you have some bad ass modding skills there. Yea I just searched and I probably mixed up with another BA. The 30095s aren't expensive at all. I am quite happy with my current mod already btw!


----------



## 1clearhead (May 13, 2021)

MusicalChillies said:


> After a couple of days with the KS ZS10 pro, kind of proves to me this price point seemed too good to be true. The brittle upper mid/treble (female vocal) bothers the hell out of me, no matter which tips. Decent low end but too artificial to me.
> 
> Is there anything sub £100 that is as smooth as a Westone 4?


The only KZ or CCA I would take out of that scenario would have to be the CCA CSN. Is the only tuning I know that is done right for such a cheap cost coming from KZ and the sister company CCA. Nothing artificial or brittle there.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

The TWS’d XUN unit, KZ Z1 Pro order placed from Aliexpress, will post impression maybe a month later- I will have 3 of KZ TWS, S1D/SKS/Z1Pro for comparative reviews if anyone looking into TWS of KZ.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

1clearhead said:


> The only KZ or CCA I would take out of that scenario would have to be the CCA CSN. Is the only tuning I know that is done right for such a cheap cost coming from KZ and the sister company CCA. Nothing artificial or brittle there.





MusicalChillies said:


> After a couple of days with the KS ZS10 pro, kind of proves to me this price point seemed too good to be true. The brittle upper mid/treble (female vocal) bothers the hell out of me, no matter which tips. Decent low end but too artificial to me.
> 
> Is there anything sub £100 that is as smooth as a Westone 4?


As a Westone 4 owner,  you wouldn’t go V-shape IEM like most of KZ’s. I know how westone tune their IEMs. I agree for lower price point, CCA CSN would work, but not as good as W4’s sound. For $sub 30, you can try KBEAR lark (post Oct 2020) for neutral reference.
My recommendation as Westone 4 owner for you, is TRI Starsea, it’s better than Westone 4. My rating for W4 with current grading will be somewhere near 70/100, TRI Starsea will be somewhere between 85-89/100 for sub 100 £.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MusicalChillies said:


> Just read this on the KAZ review so that`s ruled the out and other variants unfortunately. Exactly what I think about the 10 pro.
> 
> I think it is again a local (Europe, Asia etc.) discussion why the highs always have to have this subliminal aggressiveness with KZ. Personally, I'm slowly getting tired of it and long for more relaxation and real quality, instead of always simulating it with an artificial build-up. The trebles have this basic metallic character, which almost always resonates with KZ. You get used to it, but BA drivers can also do differently. The trebles provide a very good transparency and details, but the naturalness is a bit lost. In addition the sibilants are annoying and I can't attest the ZAX a fatigue-free audibility.


Hmm...Although ZAX's treble is moderately peaked out compared to old KZ's, I would still have to refer ZAX on the energetic side, definitely not as smooth as Westone's rather darker treble. It is still U-shape after all.  As I see you have InEar SD3, you may try TRI Starsea as I posted earlier, it is mini-Anole-VX. Highly sophisticated treble tuning.


----------



## jant71

IEMusic said:


> In the KZ world, I’d seriously look into the DQ6.  It’s is very impressive IMO, and no BAs.






My DQ6 with Epic cable and AT tips sounds pretty impressive esp. with a bit of Cowon EQ-ing 



I bought them more cause I thought they would be good wireless. I think that with my BQeyz Z3 they actually sound better than they do stock. Probably some synergy there but it works. Anyone else like them over BT??


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 13, 2021)

jant71 said:


> My DQ6 with Epic cable and AT tips sounds pretty impressive esp. with a bit of Cowon EQ-ing
> 
> I bought them more cause I thought they would be good wireless. I think that with my BQeyz Z3 they actually sound better than they do stock. Probably some synergy there but it works. Anyone else like them over BT??


Yea, I also hope they could've differentiated themselves by 3DD TWS. They already introduced the one with XUN unit(bass driver used in DQ6) as Z1 Pro in TWS form, so I guess they probably trying out balancing energy consumptions. KZ came up with BT module with 5.2, but nah not that tail... I just want a sleek pair of TWS.


----------



## cappuchino (May 13, 2021)

Thank you, YT algorithm. Wasn't aware of the band before this.

King Gnu -
白日​


Spoiler: M/V








*THAT DEFINITELY IS A KZ AS06!* The music video has ~343 million views 😲


----------



## Oruzitch

cappuchino said:


> Thank you, YT algorithm. Wasn't aware of the band before this.
> 
> King Gnu -
> 白日​
> ...



Huh... never paid enough attention to the video, great song.


----------



## chinmie

cappuchino said:


> Thank you, YT algorithm. Wasn't aware of the band before this.
> 
> King Gnu -
> 白日​
> ...




and thank you, @cappuchino for mentioning this band here, i also haven't aware of this before. now I'm going to listen to them some more


----------



## cappuchino (May 13, 2021)

Another band that has vocalists that use KZ 🤣

Ben & Ben - a _kababayan_ | a Filipino alternative/folk band



Spoiler: Live Performance









*That's a ZST! *Pic's not the best quality hehe. I guess it's good enough for the stage 😉


----------



## courierdriver

MusicalChillies said:


> Been out of the IEM game for years and can`t believe what they are putting in these cheap iems these days. Just ordered some KZ ZS10 pro`s just use on a walk.


Let us know what you think of them. Personally, I think they are a great set and punch above their price point. I still enjoy mine alot. It all depends on the type of music you listen to and your preferred sound signature. I still love the ZS10 PRO; even though I've got the ZAX and DQ6.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 14, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Thank you, YT algorithm. Wasn't aware of the band before this.
> 
> King Gnu -
> 白日​
> ...



King Gnu is like as famous as Justin Bieber in Japan👍  You may also try artist called Aimer, and Yorushika if you like King Gnu


----------



## courierdriver

jant71 said:


> My DQ6 with Epic cable and AT tips sounds pretty impressive esp. with a bit of Cowon EQ-ing
> 
> I bought them more cause I thought they would be good wireless. I think that with my BQeyz Z3 they actually sound better than they do stock. Probably some synergy there but it works. Anyone else like them over BT??


I use my DQ6 with my Radsone ES100, connected to my Samsung S20 phone via Bluetooth using LDAC. SQ is excellent, imho. ES100 also has EQ abilities and I DO also take advantage of that.


----------



## cappuchino

AmericanSpirit said:


> King Gnu is like as famous as Justin Bieber in Japan👍  You may also try artist called Aimer, and Yorushika if you like King Gnu


A huge fan of Yorushika 😊 Aimer, not so much, though I do love Kataomoi. Throw in Zutomayo and Tuyu there as well! 😁


----------



## SybilLance

MusicalChillies said:


> After a couple of days with the KS ZS10 pro, kind of proves to me this price point seemed too good to be true. The brittle upper mid/treble (female vocal) bothers the hell out of me, no matter which tips. Decent low end but too artificial to me.
> 
> Is there anything sub £100 that is as smooth as a Westone 4?





CK Moustache said:


> Not really anything from Knowledge Zenith, unfortunately.
> 
> The EARNiNE EN210, Fidue A65 or Akoustyx R-210 might be right up your alley, provided you can somehow get your hands on any of them. I'd especially recommend the EARNiNE.


There is, actually. The CCA C10. 

A very nicely tuned and relatively balanced (still V-shaped) 4 BA + 1 DD that's retailing for as low as US $25. Bass uncharacteristic of the usual KZ/CCA hybrid in that it's not overly emphasized, but with good resonance. Mids not pronounced or "shouty" but just rightly placed in the headstage. Treble that's really smooth yet resolving of detail. No purported "metallic" or harsh timbre. With your ideal eartips (in my case medium to wide-bore ones) providing the proper seal, the C10 would give you long, fatigue-free listening sessions at moderate volumes. It and the KZ E10 TWS are the highest-ranked KZ/CCA IEMs in Crinacle's list (C+).


----------



## MusicalChillies (May 14, 2021)

SybilLance said:


> There is, actually. The CCA C10.
> 
> A very nicely tuned and relatively balanced (still V-shaped) 4 BA + 1 DD that's retailing for as low as US $25. Bass uncharacteristic of the usual KZ/CCA hybrid in that it's not overly emphasized, but with good resonance. Mids not pronounced or "shouty" but just rightly placed in the headstage. Treble that's really smooth yet resolving of detail. No purported "metallic" or harsh timbre. With your ideal eartips (in my case medium to wide-bore ones) providing the proper seal, the C10 would give you long, fatigue-free listening sessions at moderate volumes. It and the KZ E10 TWS are the highest-ranked KZ/CCA IEMs in Crinacle's list (C+).


Many thanks for your reply, interesting. I received and have used the FiiO FD1 in the last 24hrs and personally if you could nudge the mids/highs of the FiiO into the ZS10 then that would be a decent mix. As much as the FiiO has more of a Soundstage, the ZS10 does the bottom end better imo.

I stated above that I don`t want to get back into throwing money again at iems (If I did then would deffo lean back towards Westone 4 ilk) but maybe you can snag something in this price range that is a little pretender to a more technical iem.

I have some spinfits coming tomorrow so see how the ZS10 reacts with them.

Cheers mate, will keep in mind.

Edit: You will see in my sig that my main SD3 is currently missing, I haven`t listened to digital music for years due to my analog/vinyl journey and cannot locate them which means they may have been a gift to a hospital or a hotel. It bothers me but in the context of life, not a big deal but do want to listen to something I am happy with.


----------



## MusicalChillies (May 14, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Hmm...Although ZAX's treble is moderately peaked out compared to old KZ's, I would still have to refer ZAX on the energetic side, definitely not as smooth as Westone's rather darker treble. It is still U-shape after all.  As I see you have InEar SD3, you may try TRI Starsea as I posted earlier, it is mini-Anole-VX. Highly sophisticated treble tuning.


Thanks for your help mate.

Edit: What is striking about this price range is the mids/vocals/treble - it`s like someone saying look at my lovely solid oak worktop then you realise it`s MDF.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 14, 2021)

MusicalChillies said:


> Thanks for your help mate.
> 
> Edit: What is striking about this price range is the mids/vocals/treble - it`s like someone saying look at my lovely solid oak worktop then you realise it`s MDF.


Final E500 for price being a bit over $20, does great job for mids/vocal/trebles, it’s not the price man.  Or if vocal oriented, Final E1000($29), VR3000($79), ER2SE ($88) all do great jobs. 

The main reason is because of old KZ products which uses Bellsing BA driver of #30095 with aggressive V tuning with many huge peaks and dips. If that peaks/dips coincides with your resonating spots around 3khz/6khz/12khz, you will feel the sound is either hollow or extremely ear piercing.
 KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases.


----------



## MusicalChillies (May 14, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Final E500 for price being a bit over $20, does great job for mids/vocal/trebles, it’s not the price man.  Or if vocal oriented, Final E1000($29), VR3000($79), ER2SE ($88) all do great jobs.
> 
> The main reason is because of old KZ products which uses Bellsing BA driver of #30095 with aggressive V tuning with many huge peaks and dips . KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases.


Thanks for the list.

It sort of is about price as I bet none of these use crossovers but it does look like things have progressed massively if you can tune the BA`s right.

Believe me, if you can give me a Westone 4 for under £100 I would bite your hand off.


----------



## 1clearhead

AmericanSpirit said:


> Final E500 for price being a bit over $20, does great job for mids/vocal/trebles, it’s not the price man.  Or if vocal oriented, Final E1000($29), VR3000($79), ER2SE ($88) all do great jobs.
> 
> The main reason is because of old KZ products which uses Bellsing BA driver of #30095 with aggressive V tuning with many huge peaks and dips. If that peaks/dips coincides with your resonating spots around 3khz/6khz/12khz, you will feel the sound is either hollow or extremely ear piercing.
> KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases.


You said: *"KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases."*, which is not entirely true. And, I'm sure if 'slater' was around he'll vouch for what I'm saying, since we posted many KZ's from their beginning. They just weren't consistent with their products. For example, the *KZ BA10* is no slouch. While being one of their earlier batches, they were well-balanced. They can give a lot of today's IEM's a run for the money. Yes, I have the BA10. Probably, there's a list I can build since the beginning, but then again, I don't have the time to be here, because like many of us that have a job to attend to, that makes this my part-time hobby.

-Clear


----------



## cappuchino (May 14, 2021)

*EXTRA, EXTRA!!!*

Just received some news from a KZ representative. She said the "boss" has brought up the topic of an electrostatic IEM project last week.

If I receive more details, I'll update you guys on the project!

*Edit: I also suggested that they drop the nozzle used in the newer releases like the DQ6.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 14, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> You said: *"KZ started to learn how to tune, and it’s showing the progress from ZSX > ZAX releases."*, which is not entirely true. And, I'm sure if 'slater' was around he'll vouch for what I'm saying, since we posted many KZ's from their beginning. They just weren't consistent with their products. For example, the *KZ BA10* is no slouch. While being one of their earlier batches, they were well-balanced. They can give a lot of today's IEM's a run for the money. Yes, I have the BA10. Probably, there's a list I can build since the beginning, but then again, I don't have the time to be here, because like many of us that have a job to attend to, that makes this my part-time hobby.
> 
> -Clear


Ah yea some exceptions like AS12, BA10, some matured take. I’ve been following KZ over 5 years, from their very early clumsy ZS5, 2017 or so,  you can open my spoiler, i have like over 10 KZs  alined with their releases, from all those experiences I can say they seemed contatly obsessed with V shape for the most of the part.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

cappuchino said:


> *EXTRA, EXTRA!!!*
> 
> Just received some news from a KZ representative. She said the "boss" has brought up the topic of an electrostatic IEM project last week.
> 
> If I receive more details, I'll update you guys on the news!


Omg!!! Regardless of what kind of IEM KZ EST would be like, as a long time KZ follower, count me in for the early bird👍


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MusicalChillies said:


> Thanks for the list.
> 
> It sort of is about price as I bet none of these use crossovers but it does look like things have progressed massively if you can tune the BA`s right.
> 
> Believe me, if you can give me a Westone 4 for under £100 I would bite your hand off.


Again, TRI Starsea by any scale is a better Westone 4 under 100 £ W4 is just a medicore 4 driver IEM nowadays. Things changed over the decade.


----------



## baskingshark

AmericanSpirit said:


> Again, TRI Starsea by any scale is a better Westone 4 under 100 £ W4 is just a medicore 4 driver IEM nowadays. Things changed over the decade.



Gotta agree with this, I have a few midfi Shures and Westones and most modern day CHIFI can beat them for a fraction of the price. Unfortunately Shure and Westone haven't innovated much over the past few years, whereas the hungry CHIFI companies have evolved many leagues ahead. As of today, Shure is still selling the Shure SE215 after 16 years, it is still muddy and veiled as the first day I had it.

I dare say some multi driver hybrid KZs can hit almost the same sound quality as the Westone W30 and Westone 3 that I have, for 10% the price.


----------



## seanwee (May 15, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Again, TRI Starsea by any scale is a better Westone 4 under 100 £ W4 is just a medicore 4 driver IEM nowadays. Things changed over the decade.





baskingshark said:


> Gotta agree with this, I have a few midfi Shures and Westones and most modern day CHIFI can beat them for a fraction of the price. Unfortunately Shure and Westone haven't innovated much over the past few years, whereas the hungry CHIFI companies have evolved many leagues ahead. As of today, Shure is still selling the Shure SE215 after 16 years, it is still muddy and veiled as the first day I had it.
> 
> I dare say some multi driver hybrid KZs can hit almost the same sound quality as the Westone W30 and Westone 3 that I have, for 10% the price.


I've tried everything westone and Shure have to offer from the SE215 to KSE1500.

Never once have did I think that they were good sounding iems.

Their tuning is the product of an older era with too much colouration or "house sound" as some would like to call it. 

If you're after a tuning that offers sound in the way it's meant to be heard, these are not for you.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> Gotta agree with this, I have a few midfi Shures and Westones and most modern day CHIFI can beat them for a fraction of the price. Unfortunately Shure and Westone haven't innovated much over the past few years, whereas the hungry CHIFI companies have evolved many leagues ahead. As of today, Shure is still selling the Shure SE215 after 16 years, it is still muddy and veiled as the first day I had it.
> 
> I dare say some multi driver hybrid KZs can hit almost the same sound quality as the Westone W30 and Westone 3 that I have, for 10% the price.


Yup, I pulled out the Legendary Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 Pro, the one I used to love and got 4 pairs of those over the time. No matter kind of cables or eartips, DAPs I use, TF10Pro is just a dead hollow sounding extreme V shape that I may rate 40/100 by my scale now... it’s just thing of a past now... I’m pretty”shure” those old legacies won’t be lasting another 10 years from their current pace of innovation and offering, I’m not pointing out names, but most of those old legacies already sold their business to third parties already, just the brand names and same old legacies which doesn’t live up to modern competitive IEM market.


----------



## baskingshark

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yup, I pulled out the Legendary Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 Pro, the one I used to love and got 4 pairs of those over the time. No matter kind of cables or eartips, DAPs I use, TF10Pro is just a dead hollow sounding extreme V shape that I may rate 40/100 by my scale now... it’s just thing of a past now... I’m pretty”shure” those old legacies won’t be lasting another 10 years from their current pace of innovation and offering, I’m not pointing out names, but most of those old legacies already sold their business to third parties already, just the brand names and same old legacies which doesn’t live up to modern competitive IEM market.



Well it is survival of the fittest. And I think these boutique brands that have for years been selling overpriced gear, are getting big pressure from covid and the evolution of CHIFI IEMs.

No doubt boutique brands spend a lot on marketing, perhaps R&D and QC and licensing. CHIFI isn't the most robust in licensing and patents and QC, but I have had my fair share of QC problems with these westones and shures (and they are made in China BTW). But anyways even if one CHIFI QC is bad, I can still buy a few more cheap CHIFI and that won't even add to the cost of one boutique brand IEM, which also isn't too far away in sound.

It is really good for us in this hobby though, market pressure has forced down prices, and we can have a small taste of audiophiledom without needing to sell a kidney.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> Well it is survival of the fittest. And I think these boutique brands that have for years been selling overpriced gear, are getting big pressure from covid and the evolution of CHIFI IEMs.
> 
> No doubt boutique brands spend a lot on marketing, perhaps R&D and QC and licensing. CHIFI isn't the most robust in licensing and patents and QC, but I have had my fair share of QC problems with these westones and shures (and they are made in China BTW). But anyways even if one CHIFI QC is bad, I can still buy a few more cheap CHIFI and that won't even add to the cost of one boutique brand IEM, which also isn't too far away in sound.
> 
> It is really good for us in this hobby though, market pressure has forced down prices, and we can have a small taste of audiophiledom without needing to sell a kidney.


Yes, old legacies are selling dinosaur IEMs with technology 5 years behind the scenes for 5 to 10 times the price, grreat marketing, on Amazon.com those dinosaurs get 2,3 thousands of 5 star reviews😂


----------



## 1clearhead

AmericanSpirit said:


> Ah yea some exceptions like AS12, BA10, some matured take. I’ve been following KZ over 5 years, from their very *early clumsy ZS5*, 2017 or so,  you can open my spoiler, i have like over 10 KZs  alined with their releases, from all those experiences I can say they seemed contatly obsessed with V shape for the most of the part.


Yea, you're right about the ZS5 being clumsy. I really liked the ZS5 and I still own two of them today. But, when I amped it up it would react strangely and clumsy almost sounding like it had a short between the DD and the BA 'causing the DD to lose bass. Though, I did not experience this with the ZS6 and ZS7. They are really good performers even up until today.

-Clear


----------



## CK Moustache

SybilLance said:


> There is, actually. The CCA C10.
> 
> A very nicely tuned and relatively balanced (still V-shaped) 4 BA + 1 DD that's retailing for as low as US $25. Bass uncharacteristic of the usual KZ/CCA hybrid in that it's not overly emphasized, but with good resonance. Mids not pronounced or "shouty" but just rightly placed in the headstage. Treble that's really smooth yet resolving of detail. No purported "metallic" or harsh timbre. With your ideal eartips (in my case medium to wide-bore ones) providing the proper seal, the C10 would give you long, fatigue-free listening sessions at moderate volumes. It and the KZ E10 TWS are the highest-ranked KZ/CCA IEMs in Crinacle's list (C+).



I'm not sure if they were the right move given @MusicalChillies previous IEMs include the Westone W4 (that I am familiar with as I own the W4R), InEar StageDiver SD-3 and NuForce HEM1 (that I own as well). All of them are heading into the smoother/darker direction in the highs, and while I own several Knowledge Zenith IEMs as well (including the AS06 and AS10 - I really like both), I doubt that the CCA (don't have them, but their treble response looks too bright based on what he's looking for) would be the right choice. I still think that the EARNiNE EN210 would be a splendid choice given the context (warm, natural, smooth, dark-ish tilt, but I'm not sure whether they are still making them or not - and as I remember, international customers would need to contact the company directly in order to acquire the IEMs).


----------



## courierdriver

Tbth,; brands like KZ, CCA, BLON, NICEHCK, KBEAR, MOONDROP, etc are what have brought me back into the audio hobby. The truth is: it's no longer necessary to spend $500-1000+ for exceptional SQ. I'm incredibly happy about that; especially coming from high end, speaker based audio. For the price of a single pair of under $500/ pair speakers; I can have multiple pairs of iems with different sound signatures. Dac/amps and DAPs cost way less than home audio components. Even upgraded cables can be obtained for less than $20. Totally enjoying my journey in personal/portable audio.


----------



## SybilLance

CK Moustache said:


> I'm not sure if they were the right move given @MusicalChillies previous IEMs include the Westone W4 (that I am familiar with as I own the W4R), InEar StageDiver SD-3 and NuForce HEM1 (that I own as well). All of them are heading into the smoother/darker direction in the highs, and while I own several Knowledge Zenith IEMs as well (including the AS06 and AS10 - I really like both), I doubt that the CCA (don't have them, but their treble response looks too bright based on what he's looking for) would be the right choice. I still think that the EARNiNE EN210 would be a splendid choice given the context (warm, natural, smooth, dark-ish tilt, but I'm not sure whether they are still making them or not - and as I remember, international customers would need to contact the company directly in order to acquire the IEMs).


Fair enough. However, if you have listened extensively to the C10 you'll discover that its apparent frequency response measurements ("...looks too bright...") are different from what you'd actually hear, as those who own or have owned the C10 would mostly agree. The phrase I used, "smooth yet resolving", is indeed an apt description of the C10 treble. 

Anyway since @MusicalChillies posted his query in this thread, I was only too glad to recommend a KZ/CCA model that I own that does not have the unwanted harsh upper register. That it did contradict your own response to said query, is I believe incidental to the circumstance and not meant to cast any shade whatsoever on you or your post.


----------



## profusion

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea, I also hope they could've differentiated themselves by 3DD TWS. They already introduced the one with XUN unit(bass driver used in DQ6) as Z1 Pro in TWS form, so I guess they probably trying out balancing energy consumptions. KZ came up with BT module with 5.2, but nah not that tail... I just want a sleek pair of TWS.


It will be interesting as havin same driver to compare Z1 with the sound of DQ6?


----------



## MusicalChillies (May 15, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Again, TRI Starsea by any scale is a better Westone 4 under 100 £ W4 is just a medicore 4 driver IEM nowadays. Things changed over the decade.


Ok will put Starsea on my future list.

Hmm, not sure how you could call, even these days a W4 mediocre but if you have a quick scan through my SD3 review in my sig (so old images gone) they do make them `standard` in the end.

Also in the review soundstage is mentioned a fair bit, this to me is just as important as the sound, something the ZS10`s have a good go at but I would be astounded if some of this newer tech gets close to the SD3 in that regard.

It might be out there in this range, hope so.

EDIT: Spinfit tips should arrive today, will report on the ZS10.


----------



## MusicalChillies

CK Moustache said:


> I'm not sure if they were the right move given @MusicalChillies previous IEMs include the Westone W4 (that I am familiar with as I own the W4R), InEar StageDiver SD-3 and NuForce HEM1 (that I own as well). All of them are heading into the smoother/darker direction in the highs, and while I own several Knowledge Zenith IEMs as well (including the AS06 and AS10 - I really like both), I doubt that the CCA (don't have them, but their treble response looks too bright based on what he's looking for) would be the right choice. I still think that the EARNiNE EN210 would be a splendid choice given the context (warm, natural, smooth, dark-ish tilt, but I'm not sure whether they are still making them or not - and as I remember, international customers would need to contact the company directly in order to acquire the IEMs).


Yep did look for the EARNINE`s but look really hard to get hold of so back burner for now.


----------



## 1clearhead

cappuchino said:


> *EXTRA, EXTRA!!!*
> 
> Just received some news from a KZ representative. She said the "boss" has brought up the topic of an electrostatic IEM project last week.
> 
> ...


Just as long as they keep it correctly tuned, it's fine with me. Though, one thing I do like about KZ (and CCA) is the good looks they invest on their products.


----------



## MusicalChillies (May 15, 2021)

SpinFit tip update on the KS10 pro...

Completely genuine tips but don`t spin, not that important but probably due to the tips really having to be squeezed on the nozzle, just fit. Tip model CP145.

Remarkably these tips calm down the extremely brittle female vocal (EDM music) making them much more enjoyable. Tightens the bass, less boomy so has altered the frequency but in a positive way which I suppose is the grade and thickness of the silicone. I might come up with a mod (another tip underneath with no stem) but for now will listen for a while and give the iems a chance.

Expensive tips but a reminder that tip rolling with IEMS is a bizarre upgrade/downgrade. Been through various so far on this iem and this is the first 1 to calm some issues.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 15, 2021)

SybilLance said:


> Fair enough. However, if you have listened extensively to the C10 you'll discover that its apparent frequency response measurements ("...looks too bright...") are different from what you'd actually hear, as those who own or have owned the C10 would mostly agree. The phrase I used, "smooth yet resolving", is indeed an apt description of the C10 treble.
> 
> Anyway since @MusicalChillies posted his query in this thread, I was only too glad to recommend a KZ/CCA model that I own that does not have the unwanted harsh upper register. That it did contradict your own response to said query, is I believe incidental to the circumstance and not meant to cast any shade whatsoever on you or your post.


That “smooth yet resolving” phrasing is very individual concha gain dependent, some may find it “ harsh” while some may find the “smooth yet resolving”. You may find my post below that illustrates why is that YMMV happening.

on that chart it illustrates someone has 2.5khz pinna gain & 5khz concha gain, and will find 5khz very edgy/splashy/harsh, meanwhile that is not the case for mine, mine is 3050Hz and 6100Hz.  If the frequency resonance peak is off that 6.1kHz mine ear will perceive sound “smooth yet resolving”.  However for someone has 5kHz concha gain spots, they will find 6kHz a very smooth yet resolving.

This is just a generalized concept because frequency resonance peaks changes even by the insertion depths.

Post in thread 'BEST BUDGET SUB-100$ EARPHONES THREAD- Chi-fi, Obscure brands and impressions sharing-REFERENCE LIST'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...s-sharing-reference-list.805930/post-16342050


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> It will be interesting as havin same driver to compare Z1 with the sound of DQ6?


Will do👍


----------



## CK Moustache

MusicalChillies said:


> Completely genuine tips but don`t spin, not that important but probably due to the tips really having to be squeezed on the nozzle, just fit.



They are designed not to spin - the naming is somewhat misleading indeed, and I was also somewhat confused when I had my first encounter with SpinFit tips since I also imagined them to actually spin/rotate. It's just the tip's end that can wiggle around a bit, which also makes sense as otherwise, with an actually rotating or spinning design, the seal (that is very important for the perception of bass quantity and extension) would be either broken/incomplete from the beginning or break over time (due to mechanical failure at some point if the tips actually featured a spinning multi-element design).


----------



## PhonoPhi

MusicalChillies said:


> SpinFit tip update on the KS10 pro...
> 
> Completely genuine tips but don`t spin, not that important but probably due to the tips really having to be squeezed on the nozzle, just fit. Tip model CP145.
> 
> ...


To me the tip rolling was a revelation.
Very similar to clarinet barrels - tiny difference in diameter greatly affects intonation and tuning.
I was able to settle on wide-bore tips (spiral dots and similar): minimal attenuation, but had to change sometimes narrow IEM nozzles for the best results


----------



## MusicalChillies

CK Moustache said:


> They are designed not to spin - the naming is somewhat misleading indeed, and I was also somewhat confused when I had my first encounter with SpinFit tips since I also imagined them to actually spin/rotate. It's just the tip's end that can wiggle around a bit, which also makes sense as otherwise, with an actually rotating or spinning design, the seal (that is very important for the perception of bass quantity and extension) would be either broken/incomplete from the beginning or break over time (due to mechanical failure at some point if the tips actually featured a spinning multi-element design).



Good job I didn`t try too hard to spin them hey. Cheers for the vid and interestingly echoes my thoughts of them.

Good stuff.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MusicalChillies said:


> SpinFit tip update on the KS10 pro...
> 
> Completely genuine tips but don`t spin, not that important but probably due to the tips really having to be squeezed on the nozzle, just fit. Tip model CP145.
> 
> ...


SpinFit is one of my top Goto selection for many BA/hybrids IEMs, 
CP100: 3.5mm bore, smaller bore 9-10mm average muzzle length, straighten up sound sigunature to flat curve, some internal acoustic of the muzzle serve as extra headroom generator.  Works as to take harsh female vocal gain peaks around 5-7khz.

CP145: 4.5mm version bore, slightly longer   muzzle length 10-12mm. Bigger tip. Open up treble and vocal responses, with a bit boomy bass boost, will result increasing in overall gain sensitivity with richer tone, sound stage could get narrower. Overall signature will be bass-rolled neutral if original IEM is flat.

CP155: 5.5m version bore, longer muzzle 10-13mm. Super big tip. Similar to CP145 with more mid range information. Bass could be overwhelming to some.

CP360: 4.5mm bore, short muzzle 8-8.5mm, average soft and flexible tip like CP100. One of the best choice if someone feeling CP100 is too dark&somehow “veiled” in a sense. Sonic wave passages  will be more direct; fast transient.

CP500: 5.5mm bore, 9.7mm length, smaller but same tip material with CP145&155, good choice for flat boost & sound stage enhancer. For IEMs with shorter noze, this helps to create extra length.


----------



## MusicalChillies

PhonoPhi said:


> To me the tip rolling was a revelation.
> Very similar to clarinet barrels - tiny difference in diameter greatly affects intonation and tuning.
> I was able to settle on wide-bore tips (spiral dots and similar): minimal attenuation, but had to change sometimes narrow IEM nozzles for the best results


I agree with with the nozzle comment, Westones hated anything wider than their standard narrow and tip rolling these ZS and FiiO with fully wide open silicone or foam isn`t beneficial either to me.

Spinfit narrower than standard and would like them even narrower but heck, for now, a positive.


----------



## MusicalChillies

AmericanSpirit said:


> SpinFit is one of my top Goto selection for many BA/hybrids IEMs,
> CP100: 3.5mm bore, smaller bore 9-10mm average muzzle length, straighten up sound sigunature to flat curve, some internal acoustic of the muzzle serve as extra headroom generator.  Works as to take harsh female vocal gain peaks around 5-7khz.
> 
> CP145: 4.5mm version bore, slightly longer   muzzle length 10-12mm. Bigger tip. Open up treble and vocal responses, with a bit boomy bass boost, will result increasing in overall gain sensitivity with richer tone, sound stage could get narrower. Overall signature will be bass-rolled neutral if original IEM is flat.
> ...


Nice post mate.


----------



## baskingshark

AmericanSpirit said:


> SpinFit is one of my top Goto selection for many BA/hybrids IEMs,
> CP100: 3.5mm bore, smaller bore 9-10mm average muzzle length, straighten up sound sigunature to flat curve, some internal acoustic of the muzzle serve as extra headroom generator.  Works as to take harsh female vocal gain peaks around 5-7khz.
> 
> CP145: 4.5mm version bore, slightly longer   muzzle length 10-12mm. Bigger tip. Open up treble and vocal responses, with a bit boomy bass boost, will result increasing in overall gain sensitivity with richer tone, sound stage could get narrower. Overall signature will be bass-rolled neutral if original IEM is flat.
> ...



Spinfit just released a CP100+ model.

Spinfit CP100+ is more supple and comfortable than CP100. Isolation is a tinge better on CP100+. I also like that it doesn't depress the mids as much as the regular CP100. On the CP100+ version, Soundstage and imaging also are much better, with less compression of music.

Worth a consideration if one wants a thicker mids than the regular CP100.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> Spinfit just released a CP100+ model.
> 
> Spinfit CP100+ is more supple and comfortable than CP100. Isolation is a tinge better on CP100+. I also like that it doesn't depress the mids as much as the regular CP100. On the CP100+ version, Soundstage and imaging also are much better, with less compression of music.
> 
> Worth a consideration if one wants a thicker mids than the regular CP100.


Yea CP100+ is sitting on my amazon.jp’s shopping cart awaiting some other Japan exclusive ear tips👍


----------



## r31ya

baskingshark said:


> Spinfit just released a CP100+ model.
> On the CP100+ version, Soundstage and imaging also are much better, with less compression of music.
> Worth a consideration if one wants a thicker mids than the regular CP100.


My old iLuv hybrids soundstage got killed by the old CP100 model, it does help with the bass and give slightly thicker sound but at cost of soundstage and airiness.


----------



## profusion

AmericanSpirit said:


> SpinFit is one of my top Goto selection for many BA/hybrids IEMs,
> CP100: 3.5mm bore, smaller bore 9-10mm average muzzle length, straighten up sound sigunature to flat curve, some internal acoustic of the muzzle serve as extra headroom generator.  Works as to take harsh female vocal gain peaks around 5-7khz.
> 
> CP145: 4.5mm version bore, slightly longer   muzzle length 10-12mm. Bigger tip. Open up treble and vocal responses, with a bit boomy bass boost, will result increasing in overall gain sensitivity with richer tone, sound stage could get narrower. Overall signature will be bass-rolled neutral if original IEM is flat.
> ...


Which one do you recommend, for not changeing so much the signature and with short bore (short tip overall) for DQ6? My ear canal is small so i need short stem otherwhise the earphones stick out too much from my ears and the pressure in the canal is increased.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> Which one do you recommend, for not changeing so much the signature and with short bore (short tip overall) for DQ6? My ear canal is small so i need short stem otherwhise the earphones stick out too much from my ears and the pressure in the canal is increased.


Since your ear canal is smaller one, CP360 M& S size pack will do the job👍

SpinFit CP360 for True Wireless Earbuds M/S– Patented Silicone Eartips for Replacement (2 Pairs) (for Nozzle Diameter from 4-5.5mm) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PJNRGNH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_AMQTK1ZKXCJP1F5C4HJ2?psc=1


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (May 16, 2021)

For those who have EDX and feel that they're unable to mitigate the sharp treble and veiled mids, please give the PEQ settings shared in the below post a try. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how fantastic these little monsters can sound if tuned properly.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...s-sharing-reference-list.805930/post-16355941


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> For those who have EDX and feel that they're unable to mitigate the sharp treble and veiled mids, please give the PEQ settings shared in the below post. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how fantastic these little monsters can sound if tuned properly.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...s-sharing-reference-list.805930/post-16355941


That curve looks familiar! You are tuning EDX to MT1 curve👍


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> That curve looks familiar! You are tuning EDX to MT1 curve👍


Is it? I don't have MT1 so can't comment. But this curve is very close to my personal neutral with slight warmth in bass. Have added Preamp gain details to the OP as well.

I don't have much expertise in this department but I'm trying to find something where I can create some meaningful purpose for my least used gear.

The curve looks somewhat like this (attached). Preamp gain is -9.8dB.


----------



## ephrank

Just saw a guy wearing a pair of ZS10 PRO at the shops.

A very rare sight in this part of the world!


----------



## IEMbiker

saldsald said:


> And this is the current condition of my CSN:


How does it sound after the mod? Killer crossover board, I like it so much. Hope u can share the sound impression after the mod and what value cap u used.
Cheers.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> And this is the current condition of my CSN:


Quite a customization!  A capacitor?


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Quite a customization!  A capacitor?


I just replicated the circuit and replaced the original with higher quality (yet still very cheap) parts, basically just an RC circuit - 20ohm resistor and 330nF Cap in series. I have some other plans thou.


----------



## saldsald (May 17, 2021)

IEMbiker said:


> How does it sound after the mod? Killer crossover board, I like it so much. Hope u can share the sound impression after the mod and what value cap u used.
> Cheers.


I just used the same value (330nF) for now but I have ordered quite a few more just to test the sound but the shipping time has been quite long lately.
The sound is more crisp now with less converging lower-mid but still quite similar to the original as the XUN driver is still very dominant. I will have a graphical update in my next post. However I say it is a definite improvement compare to the original CSN.


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> Wrong!
> 
> Wrong!
> 
> ...


So I have replaced the CSN stock circuit board with my own with same value cap and resistor, and have my other pair of CSN the 30095 replaced with a 11.5ohm resistor (I used a variable resistor here). 



Here is the measurement results:

Please click for larger image. 
Light Yellow - Original CSN
Green - CSN with same value cap and resistor as the original (20ohm and 330nF (50V))
Orange - CSN with original circuit board and 30095 replaced with 11.5ohm resistor
Purple - CSN wtih XUN only (no circuit board)

Gotta say I didn't expect the Green and Orange curves to look like these.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 18, 2021)

Staring at brave souls of AST (12BA)🥺

Would it be U12T’s KZ attempt? K12T? Or maybe retuned ASX...

I told to my wallet ASX was the last of blind buy of KZ over $100 attempts.

Looking forward for impressions and non-OEM independent measurements!


----------



## TheVortex

AmericanSpirit said:


> Staring at brave souls of AST (12BA)🥺


Have you got a link or more information?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

TheVortex said:


> Have you got a link or more information?


It’s per @cappuchino 
Post in thread 'The discovery thread!'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-16360487


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Aliexpress has stock now.
US $128.02  40％ Off | KZ AST Headset 24 BA Units HIFI Bass In Ear Monitor balanced armature Earphones Noise Cancelling Earbuds Sport
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMRy44p


----------



## voicemaster

Time to get a new pokemon I guess


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Got some new KZ arrived today from Aliexpress, KZ SKS, ZSN PRO X. Will post impression later.


----------



## PhonoPhi

AmericanSpirit said:


> Got some new KZ arrived today from Aliexpress, KZ SKS, ZSN PRO X. Will post impression later.


It would be great fo know your opinion on ZSN pro X and C10 pro - two relatively recent KZ/CCA offering that are on the wilder treble side.

I will get AST, if they have wide nozzles as in ZSN not ASX/ASF.

Though with I3, Aria and more on the way, I may prudently wait for some time to optimize "new toys' fun"


----------



## AmericanSpirit

PhonoPhi said:


> It would be great fo know your opinion on ZSN pro X and C10 pro - two relatively recent KZ/CCA offering that are on the wilder treble side.
> 
> I will get AST, if they have wide nozzles as in ZSN not ASX/ASF.
> 
> Though with I3, Aria and more on the way, I may prudently wait for some time to optimize "new toys' fun"


There we go!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...s-sharing-reference-list.805930/post-16361132

KZ SKS impressed me the most, then DB3 > C10 PRO > ZSN PRO X

Great! Let us know how AST performs.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 18, 2021)

even it is a TWS. With proper ear tips, KZ SKS is one of the best tuned out of KZ from my 20+ KZ experience! Wow! KZ nailed it! Not a typical 30095. It sounds harman-ish W-shape tuning, no big spikes, smooth and bass focused.

I can recall this sound signature as a bit brighter Mangird Tea. This brings me hope for AST, it might actually work! AST uses a bunch of #30019 BAs which SKS uses 1x custom-tuned 30019 +10mm DD.

[Update]
SKS seemed to have a 3khz pinna gain peaks like the one of those in Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk or Softears RSV.
If it matches your gain spots, it resonates very well for female vocals/guitar/snare drums.

I thought mid-range specialty was one of CCA's, but KZ seemed is leaning toward mid-range focused rather than typical V-shaped harsh tuning.
SKS has a wide sound stage, like CCA CSN, with bass-rolled Harman-ish with 3khz gain spot hitting tuning. (W-Shaped, warm, bass-rolled wide sound stage)

Honestly, I prefer this tuning over ZAX, it doesn't extend treble and air too much so that the technical weakness of KZ tweeter BA drivers could stay subtle.
Kudos to KZ engineers who tuned SKS.

SKS matches with the thin-skinned bass-boost type of ear tips, like Sony hybrids. I use one of UM's.  SKS is generally warm. For $29 on Aliexpress ($48 on Amazon, nah) SKS is a good blind buy even compared to wired IEMs of the range, for someone looking fun and warm-tuned pair of IEM.

[Update 2] It doesn't sound too good with AAC with iPhone. AptX has a better dynamic range and heavy bass slam with warm textures overall.


----------



## Oruzitch

PhonoPhi said:


> I will get AST, if they have wide nozzles as in ZSN not ASX/ASF.


it wont have the wide kz nozzle, it looks the same as dq6 which means same as asx/asf.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> Aliexpress has stock now.
> US $128.02  40％ Off | KZ AST Headset 24 BA Units HIFI Bass In Ear Monitor balanced armature Earphones Noise Cancelling Earbuds Sport
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMRy44p


The store graph looks wild AF! God bless those who buy this! Their sacrifices will be remembered by the community for a long long time.

I think most early buyers will get a review unit. But the true brave ones will get community's respect 😁


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 18, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> The store graph looks wild AF! God bless those who buy this! Their sacrifices will be remembered by the community for a long long time.
> 
> I think most early buyers will get a review unit. But the true brave ones will get community's respect 😁


Well the y-axis grid is rather small, less than 10db gap is acceptable, the graph scale make it look like roller coaster 🎢 that I agree. My concern is “2&5khz” KZ house spikes...it’s sticking to most of KZ IEMs. Same to new boy ZSN Pro X..


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> Well the y-axis grid is rather small, less than 10db gap is acceptable, the graph scale make it look like roller coaster 🎢 that I agree. My concern is “2&5khz” KZ house spikes...it’s sticking to most of KZ IEMs. Same to new boy ZSN Pro X..


Yes. All KZ's ultimately sound the same with minor differences in technicalities. It's really upto ones preferences to whether buy a ZSN or ZAX. Is 4x price worth the increment? Each to their own. That house sound is good when you pay $10 and irritating when you pay $100. KZ should know this difference and actually start benchmarking against the competition around that price bracket. In that sense, KBEAR is very sensible in varying their tunings across price points.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 18, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Yes. All KZ's ultimately sound the same with minor differences in technicalities. It's really upto ones preferences to whether buy a ZSN or ZAX. Is 4x price worth the increment? Each to their own. That house sound is good when you pay $10 and irritating when you pay $100. KZ should know this difference and actually start benchmarking against the competition around that price bracket. In that sense, KBEAR is very sensible in varying their tunings across price points.


KZ fixed that with SKS👍 No wonder it has “Restart” letters on the IEM. At the beginning, I was thinking “is KZ regretting something?” And then after listening into SKS, they seemed changed house sound drastically.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

AmericanSpirit said:


> KZ fixed that with SKS👍 No wonder it has “Restart” letters on the IEM. At the beginning, I was thinking “is KZ regretting something?” And then after listening into SKS, they seemed changed house sound drastically.


Hope that's true and that would be a step in the right direction. They need to have a mature tuning if they want to have a presence in the $100 tier which is Asian mid-fi.


----------



## voicemaster

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Yes. All KZ's ultimately sound the same with minor differences in technicalities. It's really upto ones preferences to whether buy a ZSN or ZAX. Is 4x price worth the increment? Each to their own. That house sound is good when you pay $10 and irritating when you pay $100. KZ should know this difference and actually start benchmarking against the competition around that price bracket. In that sense, KBEAR is very sensible in varying their tunings across price points.


I ordered the AST today. Hopefully it won't take a month to get here in the states.


----------



## TheVortex

voicemaster said:


> I ordered the AST today. Hopefully it won't take a month to get here in the states.



Brave man


----------



## voicemaster

TheVortex said:


> Brave man


Always. Be a man do the right thing!!


----------



## chinmie

AmericanSpirit said:


> KZ fixed that with SKS👍 No wonder it has “Restart” letters on the IEM. At the beginning, I was thinking “is KZ regretting something?” And then after listening into SKS, they seemed changed house sound drastically.



have you tried battery test on it? how long does it last per-charge?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

chinmie said:


> have you tried battery test on it? how long does it last per-charge?


I haven’t run out for 4hours during work this afternoon, so it’s battery life of KZ tws is definitely getting better, before it only lasted like 2hours.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 19, 2021)

For DQ6 owners.

Recently I’m enlightened by removing many nozzle acoustic filters on IEMs. For the most of the case, the sound will be more “direct” and “tactile”, with a cost of few decibels of bass floor

Now it’s DQ6’s turn.






Result: yes, something new from DQ6.
Since DQ6’s acoustic filter is fragile, removing DQ6 operation is irreversible process. If you have 2 DQ6, or simply interested in “cohesive bass response”, thumbs up👍

P.S. after using UM silicon tip and hooked with aptx 5.2, KZ SKS now officially become my most favorite IEM of all KZ/CCA series listed below:
I’ve been following KZ since 2017, so this is the best one for past 5 years from KZ, wow a $29 IEM beats all.
note: connecting with iphone using AAC, not that good. Only aptx. Also to take full benefit of coherence of SKS, a very thin eartips with wide open borr that resonates well are required (UM blue core silicone tip fulfills that)

Tonality: S-, just barely misses 12khz+ presentation but it can’t be blamed for single 30019 to participate.

Technicalities: ultra wide diffusion field, great positioning, excellent coherence from top to bottom, enough resolution, only shy on instruments separation, but vector and momentum presentation is also very good.
 Over all technicalities B.
SKS ranks A- range.

An anomaly from sub $100.  Only Tri Starsea $129 sub $300 hit A- in my ranking. See Audio Yume($169) only hits B+. Moondrop Blessing2 hits A+ (87/100), Dusk hits S- (90/100).  And all other S ranges are TOTL class.

So this is quite strange set that only cost $29 and yet strangely good.

 KZ
-ZST Pro
-ZS5
-ZS10
-ZS10Pro
-ZSN
-ZSN ProX
-AS10
-AS12
-AS16
-ASX
-ZAX
-EDX
-S1D
-DQ6
-SKS (Best tuned KZ ever, A+)
-Z1Pro (in transit)

CCA:
-CS10
-C10 Pro
-CA16
-CS16
-CSN


----------



## profusion

AmericanSpirit said:


> even it is a TWS. With proper ear tips, KZ SKS is one of the best tuned out of KZ from my 20+ KZ experience! Wow! KZ nailed it! Not a typical 30095. It sounds harman-ish W-shape tuning, no big spikes, smooth and bass focused.
> 
> I can recall this sound signature as a bit brighter Mangird Tea. This brings me hope for AST, it might actually work! AST uses a bunch of #30019 BAs which SKS uses 1x custom-tuned 30019 +10mm DD.
> 
> ...



So, SKS is not good with iPhone (+Spotify for example) from your recommendation?


----------



## r31ya

One problem with old KZ TWS is the battery life and voice call quality
How is the battery life and voice call for SKS?


----------



## richario

Mellowship said:


> Does anyone remember the KZ HDS1?
> Found my pair at the bottom of a box. I didn't like them at the time and I had forgotten I still had them, but gave them a try with new equipment, namely a Shanling UP4.
> Well, they are just lots of fun if -and only if - they are given enough power. In the low gain mode they sound muddy and sloppy, but as the gain goes up (and the volume goes down), the muddiness goes away. They shine the best in dual DAC mode. And they have a really nice soundstage.
> This is from a time KZ had great 6mm DDs, and I can only imagine what they could sound like if KZ went to the trouble of tuning them properly, which is what is expected from a IEM brand...
> ...


Still have HDS 1 & 3 kicking around, great driver indeed! I like the tuning on the HDS 3 even better,  but very hard to find these days. Totally agree on the comfort factor.


----------



## IEMusic

AmericanSpirit said:


> Result: yes, something new from DQ6.


Really?

I’ve removed them from both of my pairs of DQ6s, in order to experiment with tuning via sponges and Moondrop filters.   The stock dust screen is bare, w/o any mesh behind it, so I didn’t notice any difference in sound by removing it, unlike with the BL03.


----------



## seanwee

AmericanSpirit said:


> For DQ6 owners.
> 
> Recently I’m enlightened by removing many nozzle acoustic filters on IEMs. For the most of the case, the sound will be more “direct” and “tactile”, with a cost of few decibels of bass floor
> 
> ...


I thought you were talking about the DQ6. 

I was already pulling out my wallet before i saw that it was a wireless iem.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 19, 2021)

IEMusic said:


> Really?
> 
> I’ve removed them from both of my pairs of DQ6s, in order to experiment with tuning via sponges and Moondrop filters.   The stock dust screen is bare, w/o any mesh behind it, so I didn’t notice any difference in sound by removing it, unlike with the BL03.


Have you run on high gain with Xelastec? The bass resonance is insensitive to general silicone tips.

 General eartips vibrates themself after receiving bass frequency sound waves that changes internal canal resonance type, meanwhile Xelastec behaves very closely to human skin, the internal resonance pattern, especially on bass frequencies, remained less interfered👍


----------



## AmericanSpirit

seanwee said:


> I thought you were talking about the DQ6.
> 
> I was already pulling out my wallet before i saw that it was a wireless iem.


DQ6 is one good IEM too. SKS is TWS, but tuned better.

Wireless seemed not gaining enough reputation in headfi community yet, but with latest aptX and further more Sony’s LDAC sound quality preferred mode, it is hard to tell the difference between lossless wired and wireless anymore. AptX HD is 80% of LDAC.  However if used iphone’s AAC connection, the sound image and dynamic range illustrations are very plain one, not reommended to pair any TWS to iphones.


----------



## profusion

What DD have SKS?

Is there a way pairing with iphone and not using  AAC?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

r31ya said:


> One problem with old KZ TWS is the battery life and voice call quality
> How is the battery life and voice call for SKS?


Yea my S1D only lasts 2hours top.
On spec SKS says 3 hours, but I used for 4 hours, maybe I put it back to case for 5minutes when checking mailbox, but it was on and running on my ear all the time up except that down time.  
SKS uses latest Qualcomm QCC3040 chip, that improved connectivity as well as efficiency, which contributed to battery life it seems.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 19, 2021)

profusion said:


> What DD have SKS?


New DD 10mm composite dual cavity.
Not as fast as LCP drivers but it has good tuning and heavy slam enough to convince bassheads. I’d say same type of slam of Thieaudio Monarch.


----------



## profusion

Can you do a quick comparison of DQ6 to SKS vs Z1 in regard to the sound? 

And also SKS vs Z1 to connectivity and battery?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> Can you do a quick comparison of DQ6 to SKS vs Z1 in regard to the sound?
> 
> And also SKS vs Z1 to connectivity and battery?


Z1 Pro is still in transit, will do later. For DQ6, it has rough treble management and diffusion field is not uniformed, the XUN driver and twin6mm drivers treats sound field differently, not a cohesive tuning, but “unique” small live house like effect.
SKS has wider sound stage than DQ6, and very cohesive from top to bottom, which results in a high positioning / dynamics.

I’d welcome 80/100 for SKS(proper ear tip/AptX), DQ6(removed filter) 74/100.

As other sub $50 mostly hits 40-60 score range with exception of KBear Larks low 70s/100, and DQ6 mid 70s/100, SKS is best tuned tonality for the range. Technicalities wise except sound stage(A)/positioning(B+) /momentum presentation(B+), resolution(C-)/image focus and separation (C-) are barely average regular 1BA + 1DD.


----------



## profusion

Thanks!
I love to try SKS, but having iPhone and Spotify that uses Ogg Vorbis via BT is even worse than AAC, so I think it will be not a good idea....?


----------



## jant71

AmericanSpirit said:


> DQ6 is one good IEM too. SKS is TWS, but tuned better.
> 
> Wireless seemed not gaining enough reputation in headfi community yet, but with latest aptX and further more Sony’s LDAC sound quality preferred mode, it is hard to tell the difference between lossless wired and wireless anymore. AptX HD is 80% of LDAC.  However if used iphone’s AAC connection, the sound image and dynamic range illustrations are very plain one, not reommended to pair any TWS to iphones.



Not sure about the tuning. I said it before that the DQ6 is better wireless ditching the cable. I think that it is the BT synergy making it sound better so not sure about the tuning of the SKS actually.  More maybe the synergy works with the BT.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> Thanks!
> I love to try SKS, but having iPhone and Spotify that uses Ogg Vorbis via BT is even worse than AAC, so I think it will be not a good idea....?


Hmm...yea not worth..with AAC SKS just sound average C-grade IEMs.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

jant71 said:


> Not sure about the tuning. I said it before that the DQ6 is better wireless ditching the cable. I think that it is the BT synergy making it sound better so not sure about the tuning of the SKS actually.  More maybe the synergy works with the BT.


Yea most likely the synergy of both. In fact AAC tuning make SKS just average sounding one. If DQ6 is hooked with same system I’m sure it will be nice, and I’ve been keep longing for DQ6 TWS.

However as I mentioned diffusion coherence of DQ6, it’s got some problem, of which SKS doesn’t inherit, so even if they are on same system, SKS would sound more cohesive one overall.


----------



## shahrul5689

hye..i ve been resisting kz zax for a while now, i have zsx and zs10pro so im afraid if i got more or less the same thing...even after quite numerous positive reviews here im stil not convinced, is there any alternative within the same price range? recently ive tried a lot of earbuds and many of them have open back design, ive liked the sound signature alot, but all fitting is terrible... is there any iem with open back sound quality, or just the nature of iem didnt allow it?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

shahrul5689 said:


> hye..i ve been resisting kz zax for a while now, i have zsx and zs10pro so im afraid if i got more or less the same thing...even after quite numerous positive reviews here im stil not convinced, is there any alternative within the same price range? recently ive tried a lot of earbuds and many of them have open back design, ive liked the sound signature alot, but all fitting is terrible... is there any iem with open back sound quality, or just the nature of iem didnt allow it?


Hello. What type of music you listen to? Also, do you need something similar to KZ ZSX or you want to have something different? If you want something different then what is your preferred sound signature?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

shahrul5689 said:


> hye..i ve been resisting kz zax for a while now, i have zsx and zs10pro so im afraid if i got more or less the same thing...even after quite numerous positive reviews here im stil not convinced, is there any alternative within the same price range? recently ive tried a lot of earbuds and many of them have open back design, ive liked the sound signature alot, but all fitting is terrible... is there any iem with open back sound quality, or just the nature of iem didnt allow it?


Actually believe it or not, ZAX is open back, it has very wide openings of air vents. Maybe you may try dynamic drivers such as HZSound HeartMirror, Moondrop Aria.


----------



## shahrul5689

i mainly listen to orchestral, jpop and kpop songs ☺️, i think i should have something like earbuds sound but with iem body, i think i cannot stand iem with non existent bass like fiio fh1s that i also got but very disappointed with it.. i mainly use generic philips earbuds nowdays plus blon 05s, i just ordered kbear ks1 curiously since you guys mention it to have old school sound signature 😅 i resisted blon o3 because of the fit, so i opt for the kbear


----------



## shahrul5689

AmericanSpirit said:


> Actually believe it or not, ZAX is open back, it has very wide openings of air vents. Maybe you may try dynamic drivers such as HZSound HeartMirror, Moondrop Aria.


great, i will look for them later, since u mention Aria maybe i should try SSP first, very courious about the tuning too, tq @AmericanSpirit 👍


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

shahrul5689 said:


> i mainly listen to orchestral, jpop and kpop songs ☺️, i think i should have something like earbuds sound but with iem body, i think i cannot stand iem with non existent bass like fiio fh1s that i also got but very disappointed with it.. i mainly use generic philips earbuds nowdays plus blon 05s, i just ordered kbear ks1 curiously since you guys mention it to have old school sound signature 😅 i resisted blon o3 qbecause of the fit, so i opt for the kbear


In that case, you can try Tin Hifi T2+, HZ Heart Mirror (requires amping), Smabat NCO (if you can manage to purchase them), BQEYZ KB100 and CCA C10.

They'll synergise very well with what you listen and except Heart Mirror none require demanding sources/amping.


----------



## shahrul5689

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> In that case, you can try Tin Hifi T2+, HZ Heart Mirror (requires amping), Smabat NCO (if you can manage to purchase them), BQEYZ KB100 and CCA C10.
> 
> They'll synergise very well with what you listen and except Heart Mirror none require demanding sources/amping.


oh thats good, i'll read and select one that i interested the most, theyre all really interesting for sure 😃 especially that Smabat, thanks @Barusu Lamperouge


----------



## myromeo

Today I picked up some spinfit CP145 tips for my ZS10 Pro’s and whilst they immediately felt crazy comfortable the bass is utterly killed and isolation is poor. I ordered large tips as they measure the same diameter as the KZ starline large tips. I notice the KZ’s are more round whereas the spinfit are pointier if that makes sense.
Am I doing something wrong are or they just a poor fit for me? I thought they would offer comparable sound to the star line tips which sound fab but with improved comfort.


----------



## Bluewolfgd




----------



## jant71 (May 19, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea most likely the synergy of both. In fact AAC tuning make SKS just average sounding one. If DQ6 is hooked with same system I’m sure it will be nice, and I’ve been keep longing for DQ6 TWS.
> 
> However as I mentioned diffusion coherence of DQ6, it’s got some problem, of which SKS doesn’t inherit, so even if they are on same system, SKS would sound more cohesive one overall.


I am not too into knowing every model KZ and what drivers it has inside. Is there a wired model with the same SKS drivers. Bet it might sound a little worse with a cable. You know what I mean it is more a happy accident than they actually tuned it right for the TWS. You are on to something. Even though the same player and not any better than aptX with a cheap BQeyz Z3 the DQ6 has no coherence issue. I have to change to a decent cable and high gain to get the DQ6 to perform that way as far as signature and sing together like wireless and it has more technical ability but still really doesn't sing the same way not as sweet. Just like with other things in front in the chain there really can be synergy with BT chips and earphones well.

 I went for the CCA C1 which has 30095 and a dynamic where the SKS says 30019 armature and dynamic. Hopefully It should sound pretty sweet as well esp. for $20. I liked the CCA's more traditional shaped case.


----------



## Oruzitch

myromeo said:


> Today I picked up some spinfit CP145 tips for my ZS10 Pro’s and whilst they immediately felt crazy comfortable the bass is utterly killed and isolation is poor. I ordered large tips as they measure the same diameter as the KZ starline large tips. I notice the KZ’s are more round whereas the spinfit are pointier if that makes sense.
> Am I doing something wrong are or they just a poor fit for me? I thought they would offer comparable sound to the star line tips which sound fab but with improved comfort.


poor fit, same happens to me with CP100 S, also have M size and its perfect.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 19, 2021)

jant71 said:


> I am not too into knowing every model KZ and what drivers it has inside. Is there a wired model with the same SKS drivers. Bet it might sound a little worse with a cable. You know what I mean it is more a happy accident than they actually tuned it right for the TWS. You are on to something. Even though the same player and not any better than aptX with a cheap BQeyz Z3 the DQ6 has no coherence issue. I have to change to a decent cable and high gain to get the DQ6 to perform that way as far as signature and sing together like wireless and it has more technical ability but still really doesn't sing the same way not as sweet. Just like with other things in front in the chain there really can be synergy with BT chips and earphones well.
> 
> I went for the CCA C1 which has 30095 and a dynamic where the SKS says 30019 armature and dynamic. Hopefully It should sound pretty sweet as well esp. for $20. I liked the CCA's more traditional shaped case.


SKS just came out last month, and multi-drivers of KZ/CCA IMO has limited capacity to produce cohesive harmony, so the good bet is on their rather simple 1BA+1DD config, which I tried every single one of them. Not only KZ/CCA, but broadly across chi-fi brands.
As most of 1BA+1DD using 30095, I haven’t see any simple 1+1 with custom tuned 30019 so far, maybe we will see it in next release of KZ/CCA.
I’d say KBEAR Lark with custom tuned 30095 +DD got a decent sound among all wired 1+1, or if you prefer brighter TRN TA1. Bass-rolled Mid-focus; CCA CSN(again 30095+DD).

It’s funny, I googled “30019 + DD”
Then someone mentioned “30019 + 2DD” on internet, drilled it down, it was myself on the post below😂


AmericanSpirit said:


> The market is not saturated of course, but it's maturing, KZ even needs to face their own family brand CCA in some product lines, not to mention emerging brands like QKZ, TRN, TFZ, KBF, there are a lot more choices compared to back in 2015.
> Yes, it's pretty evident from aliexpress official store, $8 KZ EDX and $27 DQ6 are their main revenue stream, 80:20 rule, 80% of revenue comes with 20% of the product line.
> KZ's latest TWS, the SKS #30019 + dual DD tells they seemed really got some nail in $20 TWS.
> KZ still is at its developing stage, but they already got their brand name established, so I'm looking at long-term investment and capital expenditure does not necessarily only focusing on their current financial profile. If they got venture capital infusion, they would be able to have in-house innovation & higher-end R&D capabilities.
> They have branding, whether good or bad, and some mass production knowhows, and as well as a sizable customer base, with established logistics, sounds like an investment profile.  For KZ the recent TWS market focusing strategy seemed much more realistic than competing with Mid-Fi tier, but risky as wireless technology is now politics dependent, if they concentrate too much weight on TWS, a shortage of Qualcomm chips would simply stop their revenue stream, which FiiO is currently experiencing and just announced they will cease most of low-end, mid-tier DAP and only concentrating on M11 Plus and M15 successor M17 using ESS chips, as Japanese AKM chips are now not an option due to some external factors.


----------



## baskingshark

shahrul5689 said:


> hye..i ve been resisting kz zax for a while now, i have zsx and zs10pro so im afraid if i got more or less the same thing...even after quite numerous positive reviews here im stil not convinced, is there any alternative within the same price range? recently ive tried a lot of earbuds and many of them have open back design, ive liked the sound signature alot, but all fitting is terrible... is there any iem with open back sound quality, or just the nature of iem didnt allow it?



IEMs won't beat open backed earbuds/headphones in soundstage (in general). Most IEMs sound "in your head", it is just a matter of physics, since the IEM is inside the ear canal.

But if you can top up a bit more cash, the TRI I3 has one of the biggest 3D soundstages I've heard in a midfi IEM (when amped). May be close to earbuds in terms of soundstage, close but still not as big as traditional earbuds/open backed headphones.


----------



## Wgibson

@AmericanSpirit TRN STM is a 10mm DD and 30019


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Wgibson said:


> @AmericanSpirit TRN STM is a 10mm DD and 30019


Thanks, 




Hmm..FR looks an extreme V...Not a good tuning...


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Hmm..FR looks an extreme V...Not a good tuning...


This is not a very well plotted graph which may look a bit deceiving. Why is the range from 1 to 20 Hz even included? That frequency of sound you can only "hear" with your body and bones I think and no way can any IEM in the world capable of driving at any reasonable amplitude.


----------



## Freetrademan (May 20, 2021)

x


----------



## Freetrademan

Backsplash7 said:


> I cant find much information about the HD520 I or II floating around, just wondering what your impressions of them are, and how these compare with the HD600?


The HD520ii has been discontinued for years. It was my first real "audiophile" headphone, back in the mid-90s. It has amazing highs and air, but thin bass. Still, I love it. The HD600 is a more well-rounded headphone and it's great as a standard reference, but it's not my favorite.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> This is not a very well plotted graph which may look a bit deceiving. Why is the range from 1 to 20 Hz even included? That frequency of sound you can only "hear" with your body and bones I think and no way can any IEM in the world capable of driving at any reasonable amplitude.


Yea I simply just ignored 1-20hz of that, it’s irrelevant when comparing charts. Just observing peaks dips and amplitude of the range.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 21, 2021)

Just saw “passive noise reduction” title on AST... interesting. That’s double kilo buck high-end functions used in such as Softears RS10. Ahh, nevermind, maybe just a random marketing quote for “passive noise-cancelling” which basically means nothing for IEM.


----------



## baskingshark

AmericanSpirit said:


> Just saw “passive noise reduction” title on AST... interesting. That’s double kilo buck high-end functions used in such as Softears RS10. Ahh, nevermind, maybe just a random marketing quote for “passive noise-cancelling” which basically means nothing for IEM.



Well for unvented multi BA types (that don't have a DD inside), they tend to have better passive isolation than vented hybrids/single DD. That's primarily one of the reasons why stage musicians tend to use multi BAs for performance (to protect hearing/hear microdetails better), and also cause multi BAs in general tend to have better technicalities than single DD.


But after seeing the graphs provided here for the AST: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-3778#post-16364413 by @cappuchino , I'm not too optimistic about this set, no matter how many drivers or passive noise reduction stuff they are claiming.


----------



## r31ya (May 21, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Just saw “passive noise reduction” title on AST... interesting. That’s double kilo buck high-end functions used in such as Softears RS10. Ahh, nevermind, maybe just a random marketing quote for “passive noise-cancelling” which basically means nothing for IEM.


"Passive noise-cancelling" is basically their wording for "it also function as earplugs"
---
while i haven't the chance to tried it, but i've read in several review on famous studio headphone like Sony MDR-7506, that states, "Great for monitoring, you can spot all the details and faults in recording, but not so much on casual listening"
Despite the dilution from marketing hype for the term "monitor", True monitoring headphone might not be a "fun" headphone or all that great for casual listening.


----------



## seanwee

AmericanSpirit said:


> Just saw “passive noise reduction” title on AST... interesting. That’s double kilo buck high-end functions used in such as Softears RS10. Ahh, nevermind, maybe just a random marketing quote for “passive noise-cancelling” which basically means nothing for IEM.


So the softears iems just stuff non-functional BAs inside them


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> Well for unvented multi BA types (that don't have a DD inside), they tend to have better passive isolation than vented hybrids/single DD. That's primarily one of the reasons why stage musicians tend to use multi BAs for performance (to protect hearing/hear microdetails better), and also cause multi BAs in general tend to have better technicalities than single DD.
> 
> 
> But after seeing the graphs provided here for the AST: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-3778#post-16364413 by @cappuchino , I'm not too optimistic about this set, no matter how many drivers or passive noise reduction stuff they are claiming.


yea the KZ house V we can claim...I may try it though, only assuming it is returnable, so I'm gonna order from Amazon..


----------



## AmericanSpirit

seanwee said:


> So the softears iems just stuff non-functional BAs inside them


basically yes, I haven't tried RS10, so I have no idea what that meant to be anything though.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (May 22, 2021)

r31ya said:


> "Passive noise-cancelling" is basically their wording for "it also function as earplugs"
> ---
> while i haven't the chance to tried it, but i've read in several review on famous studio headphone like Sony MDR-7506, that states, "Great for monitoring, you can spot all the details and faults in recording, but not so much on casual listening"
> Despite the dilution from marketing hype for the term "monitor", True monitoring headphone might not be a "fun" headphone or all that great for casual listening.


Yes, only exception to Sennheiser HD25-1 II, although being used extensively as studio monitor headphone, it provides very punchy bass, works perfectly for Rock source.

That Heavy duty can still runs as good as new, and still hold place as my go-to headphone whenever I want to have an artificial concussion😂


----------



## r31ya

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yes, only exception to Sennheiser HD25-1 II, although being used extensively as studio monitor headphone, it provides very punchy bass, works perfectly for Rock source.
> 
> That Heavy duty can still runs as good as new, and still hold place as my go-to headphone whenever I want to have an artificial concussion😂


I remember reading that MDR-7506 have a sibling which mostly the same but the sibling have better bass which it seems done to make it better "casual" earphone.
I think its the MDR-V6.

Anyhow these two used to be sold at nearly three times of its sticker price in my place, recently it went down to near sticker price which makes it really tempting.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

I was thinking why KZ-V sounds so awkward and reached to this “grima”
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...t-when-nails-scratch-a-blackboard-has-a-name/


----------



## IEMbiker

I open up the ASX to check on the Crossover board and to my surprise, the 29689 is connected to reverse polarity intentionally. I don't have KZ 29689 datasheet, so I compare the termination with Bellsing and Knowles both show ASX 29689 is connected in the reverse phase. Then I simply rewired it back and the bass amount is double and become the most bass head unit I have. The Upper Mid and High also improve in resolution. Now the unit become EDM monster...the bass can sometimes become way too much for me. 

I


----------



## voicemaster

IEMbiker said:


> I open up the ASX to check on the Crossover board and to my surprise, the 29689 is connected to reverse polarity intentionally. I don't have KZ 29689 datasheet, so I compare the termination with Bellsing and Knowles both show ASX 29689 is connected in the reverse phase. Then I simply rewired it back and the bass amount is double and become the most bass head unit I have. The Upper Mid and High also improve in resolution. Now the unit become EDM monster...the bass can sometimes become way too much for me.
> 
> I


Hmm.. makes me wonder if some of them are wired incorrectly. The ASX released quite fast after its announcement so maybe they rushed to make them and since there are so many freaking drivers, the chance of something wrong is also higher. Just a thought.


----------



## saldsald (May 23, 2021)

IEMbiker said:


> I open up the ASX to check on the Crossover board and to my surprise, the 29689 is connected to reverse polarity intentionally. I don't have KZ 29689 datasheet, so I compare the termination with Bellsing and Knowles both show ASX 29689 is connected in the reverse phase. Then I simply rewired it back and the bass amount is double and become the most bass head unit I have. The Upper Mid and High also improve in resolution. Now the unit become EDM monster...the bass can sometimes become way too much for me.
> 
> I


I asked some sellers before and they told me it doesn't make a difference reversing the 'polarity' even they are specified as per the spec. Gonna verify this myself soon


----------



## IEMbiker

saldsald said:


> I asked some sellers before and they told me it doesn't make a difference reversing the 'polarity' even they are specified as per the spec. Gonna verify this myself soon


When there is only one driver then the difference is less noticeable. But when there are multi-driver, some share the same frequency range and the reverse phase will cancel out each other. Try it out and share your thought after that, I hear significant changes after rewired the BA.


----------



## saldsald

Anyone bought the CCA CA2? I bought it just to compare with the MT1 and EDX and yellow seems nice looking. Gotta say it is quite crappy sounding, quite a disappointment. I thought CCA would come up with something better than KZ and TRN.


----------



## saldsald

IEMbiker said:


> When there is only one driver then the difference is less noticeable. But when there are multi-driver, some share the same frequency range and the reverse phase will cancel out each other. Try it out and share your thought after that, I hear significant changes after rewired the BA.


Yea I will try that out but unfortunately I am kind of busy lately. Do you prefer the sound before or after rewiring? 

Here is the data sheet of the 29689: 
http://pmofbe463.pic3.ysjianzhan.cn/upload/EG-29689-000.pdf

probably same as knowles.


----------



## IEMbiker

saldsald said:


> Yea I will try that out but unfortunately I am kind of busy lately. Do you prefer the sound before or after rewiring?
> 
> Here is the data sheet of the 29689:
> http://pmofbe463.pic3.ysjianzhan.cn/upload/EG-29689-000.pdf
> ...


I like the sound after rewired, I'm a bass guy, the unit now is more dynamic, bassy, detail, and resolving compare to the original. 
I always like to check if i can hear the triangle in this song at time 3:22. 



The sound does not present in the original setting of ASX but after rewired I can hear it


----------



## saldsald (May 24, 2021)

saldsald said:


> So I have replaced the CSN stock circuit board with my own with same value cap and resistor, and have my other pair of CSN the 30095 replaced with a 11.5ohm resistor (I used a variable resistor here).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another quick update (thou I said I am kind of busy, it is just too easy to rewire):


Orange - XUN only without any RC; Green - 30095 only with original RC board and 22.5ohm resistor in parallel to simulate the load of XUN. Note: same output voltage from the DAP so the 30095 is at least 30dB lower in volume. 

I can almost confirm that the 30095 is not doing anything there. Sad. I am not gonna do the reverse phase for the CSN, I think the sound path for the 30095 is almost blocked that's why the output volume is so low.


----------



## saldsald

IEMbiker said:


> I like the sound after rewired, I'm a bass guy, the unit now is more dynamic, bassy, detail, and resolving compare to the original.
> I always like to check if i can hear the triangle in this song at time 3:22.
> 
> 
> ...



Haha, I used to use their song Viva La Vida to test my headphones cause the song is so congested (Seriously although they have some good songs, the mastering is just below average). Skipped to 3:22, opps, can't hear the triangle.  

Seems like a good and easy mod for you. Too bad I sold my ASX but I am likely gonna get the AST.


----------



## MusicalChillies

ZS10 pro update:
Last night i decided to use my FiiO cable on the ZS10 and much better controlled vocals, still have a metallic edge but sssss and tststststs vastly reduced. I presume FiiO`s cable is just copper and ZS10 an iffy silver plated affair.
Cant use the ZS cable on the FiiO due to the plastic around the pins but pretty sure it`s rubbish.

Was fairly happy streaming ASOT to and from work today with the ZS10.


----------



## PhonoPhi

I could not resist AST any longer... (well at least few days after ordering $200+ of IEMs )

Looking into AST BAs - just one 30095 (TRN BA15 have 7 per side that should be precisely positioned, I guess, with renowned TRN quality for $250 asked...)

Actually, AST BAs are quite similar to ZAX. I really like ZAX treble, BA bass can take care of too much bass (too my taste), promising here .

Still, with the narrow nozzles, AST is a more of a nice multi-BA development kit to me; and if it works - likely another one will need to be acquired


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> I could not resist AST any longer... (well at least few days after ordering $200+ of IEMs )
> 
> Looking into AST BAs - just one 30095 (TRN BA15 have 7 per side that should be precisely positioned, I guess, with renowned TRN quality for $250 asked...)
> 
> ...


I may need to get one too....have a good feeling about this one.
The impedance went up to 30 compared to the ASX. Would that make it harder to drive using an iPod Touch?


----------



## Oruzitch

MacAttack7 said:


> I may need to get one too....have a good feeling about this one.
> The impedance went up to 30 compared to the ASX. Would that make it harder to drive using an iPod Touch?


Should be sightly harder to drive, unless your device has to go all the way up for ASX it should drive AST fine.
ASX 20 ohm, 106db/mW vs AST 30 ohm, 103db/mW.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Someone posted this audio site for tests on the forums so tried it with the KS10. Not sure if iems are meant ot be in phase or not but my KS10 is louder on the out of phase test.
Could some one report if they have the same with any KS iem?
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> I asked some sellers before and they told me it doesn't make a difference reversing the 'polarity' even they are specified as per the spec. Gonna verify this myself soon


Some comments from a recording engineer headfier about polarity:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/qdc-discussion-and-impressions-thread.804170/post-16366028


----------



## MusicalChillies

AmericanSpirit said:


> Some comments from a recording engineer headfier about polarity:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/qdc-discussion-and-impressions-thread.804170/post-16366028


Cheers for that, kind of wished my KS10 appeared in phase which by default doesn`t appear to be. Don`t think (even though not really possible) turning cables around would alter that tbh.

Was just wondering if this was  KS approach or my pair a tad iffy.


----------



## PhonoPhi (May 25, 2021)

MusicalChillies said:


> Cheers for that, kind of wished my KS10 appeared in phase which by default doesn`t appear to be. Don`t think (even though not really possible) turning cables around would alter that tbh.
> 
> Was just wondering if this was  KS approach or my pair a tad iffy.


You can take a simple 2-pin cable (if you Fiio one is not(?)) and experiment with all 4 different polarity combinations with your KZ ZS10 pro.

Having two channels in an opposite phase to each other is very noticeable by collapsing the stage, etc.

Reversing polarity of both channels often can work OK, at least in my limited experience- neither DDs nor most BAs are polarity-sensitive, the circuitry may but rare (in order to be more consumer-proof ) in my understanding.

Out of my 20+ KZs I did not have any polarity problems and have not heard much about such problems here, though definitely things can happen...


----------



## MusicalChillies

PhonoPhi said:


> You can take a simple 2-pin cable (if you Fiio one is not(?)) and experiment with all 4 different polarity combinations with your KZ ZS10 pro.
> 
> Having two channels in an opposite phase to each other is very noticeable by collapsing the stage, etc.
> 
> ...


Ah maybe some wires crossed ( no pun), right left polarity is not an issue but was questioning the phase via the test on site I posted. Probably doesn`t make a difference in general, just wondered mate.


----------



## NeonHD

As a guy who swears by KZ's old budget offerings, I've held off buying any of KZ's new generation of IEMs..... until now that is.












Behold, the KZ EDX, my first modern KZ IEM. At $7 US, it sits at a very cheap price-point, but does it sound more than what its cheap price suggests?  


*FIRST IMPRESSIONS*
On first listen I was pretty amazed. The first song I played was Awake by Tycho and I loved how it rendered the treble so crisp and airy. Mids seemed natural and the bass, while lacking, had great punch when connected to an amplifier with the bass gain on.

However once I started playing anything other than Tycho it became clear that the EDX wasn't actually that great. In reality, the mids are actually very recessed, especially with EDM tracks. The treble also gets pretty sibilant as well. So basically you're looking at an extreme V shape. Overall, the sound presentation for most tracks, especially EDM, appears to be very thin and hollowed out and lack any sense of body or foundation. The EDX actually kinda reminds of the TRN M10 which has a very similar sound signature, and that includes the hollowed out mids part. I'd say the TRN M10 is a tad better.

For the price I can't fault it, but honestly you'd be better off paying a bit more for something like the old but gold KZ ED9, which destroys the EDX in every aspect (especially WRT the mids). The Sony MH755 also comes to mind as a far better option and even cheaper (tho the MH755 is rare now). Even some cheap Panasonic Ergofits would destroy this. Also I don't know if they sell it anymore, but the KZ ATR was around the same price and it definitely trounces the EDX. 

*VERDICT*
Unless your music collection consists entirely of well-mastered acoustical audio (such as any song from Tycho), then I would not recommend the EDX. In fact I'd stay far away from it if you like your mids.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

NeonHD said:


> As a guy who swears by KZ's old budget offerings, I've held off buying any of KZ's new generation of IEMs..... until now that is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree, EDX due to its warm U-shape tuning matches wity acoustic songs very well, not a perfect match for like EDM


----------



## artatgray

While I've seen various frequency response measurements for KZ's offerings, I've never seen group delay and distortion included in such analyses. Has anyone done them? 🤔


----------



## garysohn

I'm a noob. Just bought KZ ZS10Pro. Using it with Hip DAC and can't turn the volume knob up past about the 8 position or it's too loud. It seems to track alright, but I would like to be able to turn it to 11, or even 10 would be good. The dynamics and even resolution don't really show up until the 10, but then it is too loud. I like the sound signature. What KZ iems have the lowest sensitivity? I have KZ Ate and can turn up to 10-11.


----------



## PhonoPhi

garysohn said:


> I'm a noob. Just bought KZ ZS10Pro. Using it with Hip DAC and can't turn the volume knob up past about the 8 position or it's too loud. It seems to track alright, but I would like to be able to turn it to 11, or even 10 would be good. The dynamics and even resolution don't really show up until the 10, but then it is too loud. I like the sound signature. What KZ iems have the lowest sensitivity? I have KZ Ate and can turn up to 10-11.


You may consider investing in IEMatch - it is designed for cases like this of a too powerful amp.


----------



## PhonoPhi

On another note, I am revisiting a good old AS10 today - slightly granular warm rendering is such a perfect match for the viola of Nobuko Imai. Cellos that authoratively sound like double basses - just love it!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

NeonHD said:


> As a guy who swears by KZ's old budget offerings, I've held off buying any of KZ's new generation of IEMs..... until now that is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Primary reason for this is that they're targeted towards causal listeners who are trying to buy a decent IEM to drive through their phones. They would find them "super detailed" and "clear" with "mind-blowing" bass. For folks who have some experience with audio gear, they will certainly find them too splashy or mids too recessed and etc.

EDX scale beautifully with wide bore or foam tips. Treble gets some semblance thanks to welcome boost in mids and some air in upper treble region. Cymbals are bit too bright but it's KZ what else can one expect at $7?

I'm usually using them BGVP W01 tips and little EQ. They sound very good and definitely punch above their price tag.


----------



## NeonHD (May 26, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Primary reason for this is that they're targeted towards causal listeners who are trying to buy a decent IEM to drive through their phones. They would find them "super detailed" and "clear" with "mind-blowing" bass. For folks who have some experience with audio gear, they will certainly find them too splashy or mids too recessed and etc.
> 
> EDX scale beautifully with wide bore or foam tips. Treble gets some semblance thanks to welcome boost in mids and some air in upper treble region. Cymbals are bit too bright but it's KZ what else can one expect at $7?
> 
> I'm usually using them BGVP W01 tips and little EQ. They sound very good and definitely punch above their price tag.


That's true, but it still wouldn't hurt to spend three more extra dollars to get something like the KZ ED9. IMO the jump in sound quality is threefold, so much so that even casual users would notice a striking improvement.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

NeonHD said:


> That's true, but it still wouldn't hurt to spend three more extra dollars to get something like the KZ ED9. IMO the jump in sound quality is threefold, so much so that even casual users would notice a striking improvement.


I totally agree. ED9 at $10 still whoops many IEMs. EDX is more about convenience of cable swapping than pure SQ improvement. The overall package is very compelling for EDX whereas ED9 is more for those seeking genuine sound improvement.


----------



## cappuchino (May 27, 2021)

Was browsing the groups I'm part of on FB. And then I saw this...

AST First Look

I don't know the person (think she's a seller? not sure) that posted it nor the purpose of said video. But here are the things I found interesting:

1. Box looks to be the same as the "higher-end" KZs.
2. The AST looks like the DQ6 on steroid.
3. It seems to be using that very picky nozzle. Please, KZ change it for your next releases.
4. Cable's different! 8 cores! FINALLY!

*Screenshotted the AST with the stock cable from the video


----------



## PhonoPhi

My AST is on its way, and I have a spare pair of ZSN pro


----------



## baskingshark

PhonoPhi said:


> My AST is on its way, and I have a spare pair of ZSN pro



Thanks for taking one for the team! Appreciated. Ultra brave to blind buy the AST, considering it ain't a budge KZ. Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## voicemaster

Mine on its way too. Enjoying moondrop Aria at the moment.


----------



## r31ya (May 27, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> AST First Look


TWS level of thickboy

Also, is it really the tinny nozzle? This many driver, close back, and tinny nozzle?
Is every sound will sounds like they are on top of one and another in tiny soundstage?
---
That being said, KZ recent 10+ driver, KZ ZAX, CCA CA16, CCA CKX, (also KZ DQ6) have good tuning.
Here's hoping KZ AST being awesome.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

I'm new here. I have bought an AST and have been following the discussion here offline.

Found this* and would like to share as it has some pictures comparing the AST with DQ6 and ASX. There are some considerations about the sound written in Chinese that I have read using Google Translate but maybe some of you are fluent and able to better understand and share here.

* https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2620772&extra=page=1&page=1


----------



## forestitalia

cappuchino said:


> Was browsing the groups I'm part of on FB. And then I saw this...
> 
> AST First Look
> 
> ...


They are too big for normal ears!!!


----------



## Joseph Lin (May 27, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Was browsing the groups I'm part of on FB. And then I saw this...
> 
> AST First Look
> 
> ...


From the video, the material used for the enclosure seems like low quality plastic.


boredbuyingstuff said:


> I'm new here. I have bought an AST and have been following the discussion here offline.
> 
> Found this* and would like to share as it has some pictures comparing the AST with DQ6 and ASX. There are some considerations about the sound written in Chinese that I have read using Google Translate but maybe some of you are fluent and able to better understand and share here.
> 
> * https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2620772&extra=page=1&page=1


Rough translation: Sound like there are 6 subwoofers emphasizing on low end(bass/sub bass), treble is clean and clear. If pairinf it with a copper cable or the KZ blue/silver cable, the bass will become too much. Looks like a silver cable will make it sound more balanced. The stock cable is good enough, no need to swap cables. That's all what I can read from those pages so far.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

Joseph Lin said:


> From the video, the material used for the enclosure seems like low quality plastic.
> 
> Rough translation: Sound like there are 6 subwoofers emphasizing on low end(bass/sub bass), treble is clean and clear. If pairinf it with a copper cable or the KZ blue/silver cable, the bass will become too much. Looks like a silver cable will make it sound more balanced. The stock cable is good enough, no need to swap cables. That's all what I can read from those pages so far.



Via Google Translate, teamhardcore's first message last sentence: _"For the time being, I agree with the advertisement that *the human voice is rich, soft and not harsh,* and I hope that the unit will become a baa after the unit is stabilized."_

Original:
暫時都贊同廣告人聲豐富柔和不刺耳，好期待啲單元穩定之後會變成咩聲


----------



## RikudouGoku

If you have the DQ6 and find the treble to be a bit peaky, you can fix it by either using my DIY foam mod:





(info here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...-list-music-list.925319/page-50#post-16379744 )


Or by using PEQ (tuned to my preference target):




Preamp: -4db
Low-shelf:  80hz, Q: 0.6, Gain: 2.5db
Peak: 550hz, Q: 1.4, Gain: 1.3db
Peak: 2100hz, Q:2.5, Gain: -3.5db
Peak: 3560hz, Q: 2.87, Gain: 3.3db
Peak: 5200hz, Q: 5.76, Gain: -6db
Peak: 6000hz, Q: 11.54, Gain: -3db
Peak: 7800hz, Q: 5.5, Gain: -7.8db
Peak: 10 300hz, Q: 11.54, Gain: -7db
High-shelf: 11 000, Q:  0.6, Gain: 4.5db


----------



## saldsald

Wgibson said:


> Mmm, not necessarily, but I will definitely listen before I chop it up.
> 
> 1) I'll keep the xun drivers but not in that shell
> 2) I'm in the US and I use superbuy, you can shop on taobao, knowles 30095 or 33518 you can get for less than 15 bucks. Even on aliexpress the 33518 is less than 15 shipped, 30095 is more. So that with a 33518 might be nice, and you can tweak the crossover


Hi, I am trying to extract the XUN driver from the shell without damaging both the driver and the shell. Can you share your experience how it maybe done?


----------



## Oruzitch

saldsald said:


> Hi, I am trying to extract the XUN driver from the shell without damaging both the driver and the shell. Can you share your experience how it maybe done?


I dont have CSN and havent taken apart DQ6, but as far as i can see the plastic has 2 parts, remove the one that has the nozzle, try with some heat to soften the glue and something really thin to cut it, like its done to take apart smartphones.


----------



## saldsald

Oruzitch said:


> I dont have CSN and havent taken apart DQ6, but as far as i can see the plastic has 2 parts, remove the one that has the nozzle, try with some heat to soften the glue and something really thin to cut it, like its done to take apart smartphones.


Thanks I will try this method.


----------



## SybilLance

voicemaster said:


> Mine on its way too. Enjoying moondrop Aria at the moment.


Psst..! Just an aside: what do you think of the Aria? 😊


----------



## mndless

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> The store graph looks wild AF! God bless those who buy this! Their sacrifices will be remembered by the community for a long long time.
> 
> I think most early buyers will get a review unit. But the true brave ones will get community's respect 😁


It definitely takes a brave person to buy it with the graph looking like that, but all else fails, EQ can probably fix most of the problems. My concern is their use of BA arrays without any apparent tuning differences between each driver in the array. If you just keep stacking sound from the same type of driver without anything like passive filters or additional crossover tuning, you'll just be amplifying the peaks and troughs that are distinctive to that model of driver. Sometimes having more isn't always better. Well, it should be exciting one way or the other for the brave souls who take the plunge.


----------



## voicemaster

SybilLance said:


> Psst..! Just an aside: what do you think of the Aria? 😊


It is very good. It is my first Moondrop IEM and I love their sound tuning. I have several single DD IEMs (Bl03, Bl01 and IT01) and the Aria feels complete whereas the other feels a bit compromised.


----------



## SybilLance

voicemaster said:


> It is very good. It is my first Moondrop IEM and I love their sound tuning. I have several single DD IEMs (Bl03, Bl01 and IT01) and the Aria feels complete whereas the other feels a bit compromised.


Thanks! You've just nudged me into seriously contemplating my first IEM buy beyond $30 in years—non-KZ/CCA too. I could get a pair for ~$56 with free shipping. Perhaps I could knock it down even further with vouchers and such...

Best Regards.


----------



## PhonoPhi (May 29, 2021)

mndless said:


> It definitely takes a brave person to buy it with the graph looking like that, but all else fails, EQ can probably fix most of the problems. My concern is their use of BA arrays without any apparent tuning differences between each driver in the array. If you just keep stacking sound from the same type of driver without anything like passive filters or additional crossover tuning, you'll just be amplifying the peaks and troughs that are distinctive to that model of driver. Sometimes having more isn't always better. Well, it should be exciting one way or the other for the brave souls who take the plunge.


The arrays are a very smart idea to me. They can work similar to a string section in an orchestra - a beautiful smooth blended sound where several slightly different voices coming together in unison. Odd (harsher peaks) are diminished or canceled out by blending.

BAs are easier to tune and to make sound as intended by design compared to violins ; and I am sure KZ did an acoustic design of the array.

That also brings the point of Bellsings (or KZ-modified/developed versions of BAs) that you mentioned in another thread.

Bellsing BAs were used to be less dampened compared to Knowles and Sonion ones, that made them sound comparatively as steel vs. synthetic strings.
Yet, less dampened BAs are more agile with the faster response time (and hence details and resolution), and their arrays can be great for the best combination of resolution and less harshness.

I personally came to KZ from Fiio (F9 pro, FH1), where they used Knowles. I do prefer simple CA4 to FH1. Last year I got few Knowles and Sonion-based BA designs to compare "what I may miss" - these expenses taught me that I still can be very happy with KZ/CCA 
Knowles 29689 is really great for the crystal clear midrange. KZ is yet to get this in "their mids" (if they opt to from their V-shape preferences). For the rest of the range KZ is doing perfectly fine to me, their recent "new generation" bass BA is really great, in my opinion/preference.

My ASX with the wide nozzles (replaced those mind-boggling sound-striangulating  original narrow ones) work really great to my taste. For instance, I got recently Aria(2) out of curiosity, Aria is a nice design with a very well thought acoustic signature, yet less resolving and less fun to my ears.

Campfire actually used some Bellsings in their IEMs, as it was mentioned in the lawsuit of Knowles.


----------



## mndless

PhonoPhi said:


> The arrays are a very smart idea to me. They can work similar to a string section in an orchestra - a beautiful smooth blended sound where several slightly different voices coming together in unison. Odd (harsher peaks) are diminished or canceled out by blending.
> 
> BAs are easier to tune and to make sound as intended by design compared to violins ; and I am sure KZ did an acoustic design of the array.
> 
> ...


I transitioned from my CCA CKX to my TRI Starseas because they are more resolving. I can only attribute that to their use of Knowles and their own in-house HF BA driver. If they tune a number of drivers in a BA driver array to help smooth the peaks and troughs in their overall response while building gain through multiple drivers, then this is an absolutely fantastic idea. As far as I can tell, this is not what they have done. I know that is definitely not what they did in the CCA CKX, as denoted by the severe peak gain in the treble. Maybe they'll spend some time retuning their BA arrays to make their frequency response build more sensibly for a pro model, that's always a possibility, but their current graphs look... ...scary. my personal opinion on the matter: I love rooting for an underdog to sweep the market with a comparatively inexpensive solution. It's why I do still really like my CCA CKX. A bit of tip rolling and EQ and they do sound fantastic, way better than they really have any right to at that price point, but when you move more upmarket and your pricing treads on TRI's stuff but your graphs look way scarier than the obvious competition in the Starseas, you're not doing yourself any favors. And the worst part is that the tech they're using is really, really cool and has loads of potential. 3D printed sound tubes are such a cool bit of tech, especially in a sub-$150 product with this many drivers, but they don't appear to be capitalizing on what they've put into them in meaningful ways that would make it a more universally appealing product. What is more injurious to their cause is that this isn't even their first foray into multi-driver 3D printed sound tube IEMs. They've been doing it on their other IEMs which feature generally more reasonable FR graphs. I want them to succeed and really push into the Chi-fi mid-fi market in a big way, I really do, but the ASF doesn't seem like it'll do that in its current revision. That's why I'm so critical.


----------



## Oruzitch

mndless said:


> If they tune a number of drivers in a BA driver array to help smooth the peaks and troughs in their overall response while building gain through multiple drivers, then this is an absolutely fantastic idea.



We can hope as CCA has done it before with a single 30095 to tame XUN treble peaks.


saldsald said:


> Hi, here is the FR of the CSN with the BA disconnected (XUN only). I also have the FR of the CSN with the BA and the DQ6 plotted here. Guess which is which. This result is more than interesting and confirmed my speculation is right. I also tested with my ears.


----------



## saldsald (May 31, 2021)

Oruzitch said:


> We can hope as CCA has done it before with a single 30095 to tame XUN treble peaks.


It is not exactly like this. I am not 100% sure but the 30095 makes up about 5% of the overall sound and the RC circuit together with the impedance of the 30095 actually cuts the response of the XUN. One of my units was wired incorrectly but I couldn't pick up any difference meaning the 30095 almost makes no sound. Both the CSN and the DQ6 I consider them very odd in design. There is a very tiny hole for the 30095 to transmit the sound to the nozzle so the volume is really low. Afterall the XUN is such a full frequency driver which needs very little tonal addition.


----------



## PhonoPhi (May 29, 2021)

mndless said:


> I transitioned from my CCA CKX to my TRI Starseas because they are more resolving. I can only attribute that to their use of Knowles and their own in-house HF BA driver. If they tune a number of drivers in a BA driver array to help smooth the peaks and troughs in their overall response while building gain through multiple drivers, then this is an absolutely fantastic idea. As far as I can tell, this is not what they have done. I know that is definitely not what they did in the CCA CKX, as denoted by the severe peak gain in the treble. Maybe they'll spend some time retuning their BA arrays to make their frequency response build more sensibly for a pro model, that's always a possibility, but their current graphs look... ...scary. my personal opinion on the matter: I love rooting for an underdog to sweep the market with a comparatively inexpensive solution. It's why I do still really like my CCA CKX. A bit of tip rolling and EQ and they do sound fantastic, way better than they really have any right to at that price point, but when you move more upmarket and your pricing treads on TRI's stuff but your graphs look way scarier than the obvious competition in the Starseas, you're not doing yourself any favors. And the worst part is that the tech they're using is really, really cool and has loads of potential. 3D printed sound tubes are such a cool bit of tech, especially in a sub-$150 product with this many drivers, but they don't appear to be capitalizing on what they've put into them in meaningful ways that would make it a more universally appealing product. What is more injurious to their cause is that this isn't even their first foray into multi-driver 3D printed sound tube IEMs. They've been doing it on their other IEMs which feature generally more reasonable FR graphs. I want them to succeed and really push into the Chi-fi mid-fi market in a big way, I really do, but the ASF doesn't seem like it'll do that in its current revision. That's why I'm so critical.


I do not have either CKX or Starseas.
I used to be a great fn of CCA, collecting "all their Pokémons" but their recent offerings put me off a bit, and I can't have it all...
I believe that CKX are tuned politely, along C10 lines.
For me, ZAX is great on BA side, and the DD can be more polite/contained, while CA16 have amazing DD/BA integration with the fairly curtailed/tamed treble, likely due to their narrow nozzles.
I am biased to think that ZAX and CA16 offer a great pair for the introduction to hybrid IEM sound for ~$100.

Starseas have the impedance of 9.5 Ohm - huge " no-no " for me, since a rare source can drive the loads below 16 Ohm properly. Cosequently, the sound can become dependent of cables, charging state, loudness, etc. It can be "fun" but not for me.

I agree that ASF and ASX with their narrow nozzles may work only for few people.
Why new AST still have narrow nozzles is beyond me. I ordered them as an all-BA development kit - to see what KZ done with the BA array and what can be done with the sound of 12 BAs per side upon modification.


----------



## r31ya (May 30, 2021)

BGGAR have his hands on KZ AST, apparently its his personal best KZ set.



Yes, he goes off on to several tangent, 
but apparently great BA bass, good mids, ok vocal, good treble, great resolution but still need a bit more speed in mids/strings to be great.
Better than recent DQ6 and CCA CA16.

All in all, its not CS16 or ASX situation.


----------



## Swy05

SybilLance said:


> Thanks! You've just nudged me into seriously contemplating my first IEM buy beyond $30 in years—non-KZ/CCA too. I could get a pair for ~$56 with free shipping. Perhaps I could knock it down even further with vouchers and such...
> 
> Best Regards.


Moondrop Aria for $56?

Where at?

For that price I'd definitely like a pair.


----------



## CT007 (May 30, 2021)

Green AST on the way! If it sounds better than ZAX or YBF, I'll be happy. (I'm hard to please, I know)


----------



## RikudouGoku




----------



## DynamicEars

RikudouGoku said:


>



too much mid bass for my liking, and 6khz & 8 khz too rolled off IMHO. from the graph DQ6 have much better tuning


----------



## r31ya

DynamicEars said:


> too much mid bass for my liking, and 6khz & 8 khz too rolled off IMHO. from the graph DQ6 have much better tuning


Not sure about the accuracy, but BGGAR noted the mid bass hump is KX trying to compesate BA bass to be on par with DD bass


----------



## saldsald

DynamicEars said:


> too much mid bass for my liking, and 6khz & 8 khz too rolled off IMHO. from the graph DQ6 have much better tuning


Been really hesitant to get this set for the exact same reason. Tried EQing my IEMs to simulate the roll-off and that's not too nice.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 3, 2021)

Not sure what to expect on AST without a DD lol. Pretty excited, tho..! Less treble(and more base) than Lokahi should be perfect. (Edit - and it _is_!)


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> Not sure about the accuracy, but BGGAR noted the mid bass hump is KX trying to compesate BA bass to be on par with DD bass



Actually there is nothing to compensate, they have different characters. Good BA bass can have great depth and impact but still cant have "air moving" feeling that caused additional "impact experience". But on positive side, BA bass usually have good speed as standard. Tuning the mid bass overly big isnt help in this case. Too early to raise made 100-200hz area too much, too dirty or bloomy. Would love to have better KZ with similar to DQ6 tuning. just a little more boost in sub bass and put little bit sponge damper to the peaky mountains on highs. Why dont they just use XUN driver for the bass? So far with my long journey with KZ , XUN driver is the best KZ can deliver to us seriously. My KZ Z1 TWS after simple mod with sponge and EQ is shaming other pricier TWS (in terms of sound quality only, not function, or battery life of course)


----------



## SybilLance (May 31, 2021)

Swy05 said:


> Moondrop Aria for $56?
> 
> Where at?
> 
> For that price I'd definitely like a pair.


https://shopee.ph/product/422322851/9650160750?

With judicious use of vouchers and coins (Shopee feature) I was able to knock the price down to ~$50. Of course the temptation was too much. 

While I was at it I also ordered the KZ ZAX (currently at ~$52 but that I got for a tad over $47) and the KZ AZ09 (at ~$17 but only ~$12 for me) from other shops there, using the same method of vouchers + coins. With free shipping, mind. 

Hoping the ZAX and the AZ09 will be a match. 


edit:  At the current Peso to Dollar exchange rate, naturally.


----------



## cappuchino (May 31, 2021)

CT007 said:


> Not sure what to expect on AST without a DD lol. Pretty excited, tho..! Less treble(and more base) than Lokahi should be perfect.


An ASX with a more elevated upper midrange and lower treble, also with a "deeper" drop after 5.2 kHZ, perhaps 😅🤔🤣?

*Edit: Damn. I got confused. Mixed up the two graphs 🤣 Sorry for that.


----------



## cappuchino (May 31, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> An ASX with a more elevated upper midrange and lower treble, also with a "deeper" drop after 5.2 kHZ, perhaps 😅🤔🤣?
> 
> *Edit: Damn. I got confused. Mixed up the two graphs 🤣 Sorry for that.


I just realized that I mixed up the two graphs 🤣 AST looks like a more refined ASX? Sorry for that.

College Final Exams is hitting me hard 😂


----------



## CT007 (May 31, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> AST looks like a more refined ASX


Haven't heard ASX. Only ZAX, ZSN Pro, DQ6, (CKX), AS10, ATE.  Favs: ZAX > AS10 > ZSNP / DQ6.


----------



## CT007

Bah, how are they out of stock of the green AST already?? Had to order from some other store I'm not a fan of, to get my green lol. And what about...orange


----------



## MacAttack7

CT007 said:


> Bah, how are they out of stock of the green AST already?? Had to order from some other store I'm not a fan of, to get my green lol. And what about...orange


I think some of the stores never had green, because from the beginning it wasn't available in some that I checked.


----------



## Swy05

SybilLance said:


> https://shopee.ph/product/422322851/9650160750?
> 
> With judicious use of vouchers and coins (Shopee feature) I was able to knock the price down to ~$50. Of course the temptation was too much.
> 
> ...


Darn, I don't think they ship to the US.


----------



## CT007

"Brand: KZ
Product Type: KZ-AST
Sensiticity: 103dB
Impedance: 300"

I got really excited about the "300" bit there, until I looked into it a little :l


----------



## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> "Brand: KZ
> Product Type: KZ-AST
> Sensiticity: 103dB
> Impedance: 300"
> ...


THIS IS SPARTAAAA!!!


----------



## CT007

voicemaster said:


> THIS IS SPARTAAAA!!!


Bro, you have top-notch taste in movies, I gotta say.


----------



## MacAttack7

Anyone know if the AST is the exact same shape & size of one of the previous IEM's such as the ASX, or DQ6?
It looks like it may be slightly different, but hard to tell from the pictures.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 1, 2021)

r31ya said:


> BGGAR have his hands on KZ AST, apparently its his personal best KZ set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great! As I jumped on both CS16, ASX without brain thinking anything, and now regretting about that mindless purchase, I was bit concerned about AST.
When it becomes available for Prime Shipping on Amazon USA, I may try AST.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 1, 2021)

KZ SKS’s little brother, Z1 Pro arrived.

Basically SKS without 30019. But with only single dynamic driver handling full range, Z1 Pro does great job.

-same to SKS, latest bluetooth 5.2, low battery consumption better networking
-W-shape focus with sub-bass rolled vocal range emphasis, treble is not a main character here
-not a 2khz&5khz KZ house V-tuning
-6khz not offending (gain compensation)
-there is a weird peak over 10khz, not a natural one so it may sound a bit off for some
-moderate and a bit lower on resolving capability in exchange of great conformity of tonal balance
-generally warm signature
-for $25 TWS. I found no critical flaws for Z1 Pro
-Bass is the best part of Z1 Pro, very punchy and wide spreading

KZ SKS (picture below)could be a direct upgrade, bass boost ear tips (like UM’s blue core tips: wide bore 5mm+ & ultra soft and thin silicone ) are recommended.


----------



## MacAttack7 (Jun 1, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Great! As I jumped on both CS16, ASX without brain thinking anything, and now regretting about that mindless purchase, I was bit concerned about AST.
> When it becomes available for Prime Shipping on Amazon USA, I may try AST.


Both CS16 & ASX are really good.....at least if you get them at a nice discount, and if they fit your ears properly.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 1, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> Both CS16 & ASX are really good.....at least if you get them at a nice discount, and if they fit your ears properly.


To my ears - ASX with wide nozzles are still the best IEM by far in my "under $150 universe".

Still trying to try few other different IEMs, I like Aria as a gentle, versatile and quite universal and capable IEM. But then comparing with the modified ASX side by side made me ordering AST right away (sadly, my AST package was assigned the shipping # the same day, but did not move for a week so far ).

Today I got TRI I3 - I hope they will become less treble-shy and more mid-prominent upon "burning" and will make a good complement to my stable of KZ/CCAs together with other tribrids: SFR MT300 and NiceHCK NX7 pro


----------



## CT007

Apparently HiFiGo will have stock of AST green THIS WEEK, so I'm holding out on the order I placed with them    Green or bust!!


----------



## mndless

PhonoPhi said:


> To my ears - ASX with wide nozzles are still the best IEM by far in my "under $150 universe".
> 
> Still trying to try few other different IEMs, I like Aria as a gentle, versatile and quite universal and capable IEM. But then comparing with the modified ASX side by side made me ordering AST right away (sadly, my AST package was assigned the shipping # the same day, but did not move for a week so far ).
> 
> Today I got TRI I3 - I hope they will become less treble-shy and more mid-prominent upon "burning" and will make a good complement to my stable of KZ/CCAs together with other tribrids: SFR MT300 and NiceHCK NX7 pro


The graph of the TRI i3 scares me a bit. I don't really have anything against EQ-ing my IEMs on the source, but I prefer when I don't have to, and it looks like I would probably want to. The whole DD, Planar, and BA tribrid is a really tempting proposition, though, since planar are known to have fantastic timbre in the mids. I'll resist for now, but if they ever tweak their tuning and put it in a resin shell, I expect I'll place my order as soon at it shows up on their AliExpress page. To my ear, the TRI Starsea is an impeccably designed and tuned IEM that's really hard to compete against at around $130. I upgraded from a set of CCA CKX with EQ to correct it's treble peaks, and the non-EQ tuning of the Starseas already blows those out of the water. I am curious about the performance of KZ and CCA's more sophisticated 3D printed sound tube armatures in their newer BA IEMs, but at this point, I'm a bit tired of spending on things whose graphs indicate tuning issues that I'll need to correct. I went through the KZ ZS5 and Shuoer Tape Pro and now even the CCA CKX, and they were all purchased before I figured out that I really, really should be checking graphs before purchase.


----------



## courierdriver

Still rockin my ZS10 PRO's. Tonight, I'm listening to this. The ZS10 PRO works great with this type of music.


----------



## r31ya (Jun 2, 2021)

courierdriver said:


> Still rockin my ZS10 PRO's. Tonight, I'm listening to this. The ZS10 PRO works great with this type of music.


We need ZS10 Pro with Xun DD and the new KZ treble tuning.
Personally, if ZS10 Pro have better textured bass (its been awhile since i listen to ZS10Pro, but by my fuzzy memory, i prefer DQ6 bass over KZ ZS10 Pro thumpy but textureless bass) and more rounded yet detailed treble, it will be pretty damn awesome.


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> To my ears - ASX with wide nozzles are still the best IEM by far in my "under $150 universe".
> 
> Still trying to try few other different IEMs, I like Aria as a gentle, versatile and quite universal and capable IEM. But then comparing with the modified ASX side by side made me ordering AST right away (sadly, my AST package was assigned the shipping # the same day, but did not move for a week so far ).
> 
> Today I got TRI I3 - I hope they will become less treble-shy and more mid-prominent upon "burning" and will make a good complement to my stable of KZ/CCAs together with other tribrids: SFR MT300 and NiceHCK NX7 pro


The i3 really comes alive with power. The planar mids are wonderful. The treble also improves but it is not very elevated, however the timbre is good.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> The i3 really comes alive with power. The planar mids are wonderful. The treble also improves but it is not very elevated, however the timbre is good.


That is definitely true, but then there is also synergy with the source, and as Chris pointed out in the synergy thread - BTR5 really matches well with TRI I3. I have tried Fiio Q1-II (meeh, warm, strong background hiss, as with any IEMs...) and then my good old DAP also on a warmer side.

Sadly, the synergy thread is not popular, but the subjective opinions how "silver plated cables make a perfect match" proliferate in wild abundance...  


mndless said:


> The graph of the TRI i3 scares me a bit. I don't really have anything against EQ-ing my IEMs on the source, but I prefer when I don't have to, and it looks like I would probably want to. The whole DD, Planar, and BA tribrid is a really tempting proposition, though, since planar are known to have fantastic timbre in the mids. I'll resist for now, but if they ever tweak their tuning and put it in a resin shell, I expect I'll place my order as soon at it shows up on their AliExpress page. To my ear, the TRI Starsea is an impeccably designed and tuned IEM that's really hard to compete against at around $130. I upgraded from a set of CCA CKX with EQ to correct it's treble peaks, and the non-EQ tuning of the Starseas already blows those out of the water. I am curious about the performance of KZ and CCA's more sophisticated 3D printed sound tube armatures in their newer BA IEMs, but at this point, I'm a bit tired of spending on things whose graphs indicate tuning issues that I'll need to correct. I went through the KZ ZS5 and Shuoer Tape Pro and now even the CCA CKX, and they were all purchased before I figured out that I really, really should be checking graphs before purchase.


I3 was at $120, and Starsea with their 9 Ohm impedance was not on my list. 
I am now looking for a small amp/dac with batteries, and I would love to find something that can drive 8 Ohm in the specs - hardly anything, very demanding circuitry due to high currents.  
 There will be hardly something to equalize in I3 (?); if treble won't be sufficient - that is largely it. Equalizers can trim/smoothen some peaks but not to add what is missing or already smeared/smoothen too much by transducers.


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> That is definitely true, but then there is also synergy with the source, and as Chris pointed out in the synergy thread - BTR5 really matches well with TRI I3. I have tried Fiio Q1-II (meeh, warm, strong background hiss, as with any IEMs...) and then my good old DAP also on a warmer side.
> 
> Sadly, the synergy thread is not popular, but the subjective opinions how "silver plated cables make a perfect match" proliferate in wild abundance...
> 
> ...


I use an Xduoo X20 DAP which is very neutral and a Topping NX1a amplifier which is also very clean sounding. With
 these I never feel like I am missing any treble, and the detail retrieval is excellent.


----------



## davehutch

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ DQ6 rank A-.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great mini review and exactly what I found too. I've had the FD5 for a couple of weeks (compliments of my wife for my birthday) and today the DQ6 arrived. I've found a pair of foams that work as the included tips didn't, but this is a really excellent IEM for the price £18 inc. Vat and delivery from China.
I'm going to upgrade the cable for a cheap balanced one but just wanted to check...am I looking for a QDC connector? Is it simply a case of fitting a .78mm QDC plug to the .75mm IEMs and I shouldn't run into any issues, or are there really available connectors out there?


----------



## RikudouGoku

davehutch said:


> Great mini review and exactly what I found too. I've had the FD5 for a couple of weeks (compliments of my wife for my birthday) and today the DQ6 arrived. I've found a pair of foams that work as the included tips didn't, but this is a really excellent IEM for the price £18 inc. Vat and delivery from China.
> I'm going to upgrade the cable for a cheap balanced one but just wanted to check...am I looking for a QDC connector? Is it simply a case of fitting a .78mm QDC plug to the .75mm IEMs and I shouldn't run into any issues, or are there really available connectors out there?


I believe they do use QDC, but you can also use the regular 2 pins. They fit, but it will stick out a bit.


----------



## davehutch

RikudouGoku said:


> I believe they do use QDC, but you can also use the regular 2 pins. They fit, but it will stick out a bit.


Thanks


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Has anybody compared the DQ6 to the Tripowin TC-01?


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jun 2, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> I agree that BA10 bass is deeper than that of C16, AS16 and crispier than that of AS10. Then AS12 to me is a bass star (all with the same good old 22955, AS12 with two).



Listening to AS12 right now. Very clean top to bottom.
If these had DD timbre I'm pretty sure I'd be done "collecting".

That said, the presentation and resolution are more than acceptable as a trade-off.

AS12 is not my first choice for EDM, the CKX is more appro. 
Still, I give the AS12 an 8.5/10 rating with EDM because the "good old 22955" do a great job.
Best low frequency definition I've heard to date. Having dual 22955's give the AS12 an impressive balance of density and smoothness.




Regarding the new AST, I don't think I can pass it up because it has the new "s" line balanced armatures that are fantastic to me when it comes to timbre for a balanced armature.

Likewise, I'll probably swap out the nozzle to improve the tone, imaging and separation.






PhonoPhi said:


> I3 was at $120, and Starsea with their 9 Ohm impedance was not on my list.
> I am now looking for a small amp/dac with batteries, and I would love to find something that can drive 8 Ohm in the specs - hardly anything, very demanding circuitry due to high currents.




PLENUE V is equipped with Cirrus Logic's CS43131, a cutting-edge DAC that offers ultra-high-resolution sound.


DSD Native : Up to DSD128
SNR : 126dB
THD+N : 0.0004% (24bit, 48kHz)
Stereo Crosstalk : -124dB
Output : 1.73Vrms
Output Impedance : 0.5Ω
Playback Time : Approximately 41 hours (MP3, 128kbps)

https://www.amazon.com/COWON-Plenue-Hi-Res-Player-Formular/dp/B07D53LVYV/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=Cowon+Plenue&qid=1622651924&sr=8-7&th=1&psc=1











If it's off-line "sound" and capability your after then go for a Cowon.
Really no need to go looking for more unless you "need" TOTL screens or a smartphone-like interface.

If you just want an inexpensive taste get the Plenue V.
If you want to get it over and done with in one shot get the Plenue R2.












davehutch said:


> I'm going to upgrade the cable for a cheap balanced one but just wanted to check...am I looking for a QDC connector? Is it simply a case of fitting a .78mm QDC plug to the .75mm IEMs and I shouldn't run into any issues, or are there really available connectors out there?



https://www.amazon.com/Kmrlim-FDBRO-8-Upgrade-Earphone-Pattern-Replacement/dp/B08T95K1C2/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=FDBRO+3.5mm+QDC&qid=1622650727&sr=8-4&th=1&psc=1#immersive-view_1622650967355







or



https://www.amazon.com/FAAEAL-High-...ords=FAAEAL+cable+2+pin&qid=1622654429&sr=8-5


----------



## CT007

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Has anybody compared the DQ6 to the Tripowin TC-01?


I like 01 bass more(DQ6 sounds like it's missing a chunk of bass FR), but overall DQ6 sounds way more natural and better to me. 01 sounds very...recessed or something, and the tiny shells don't help for fit. My 01 had a loose connector on one side, too. Certainly not screaming "good build quality". But I like ZAX and CKX more than DQ6, as well. We'll see where AST fits in soon


----------



## davehutch

Alpha Whale said:


> Listening to AS12 right now. Very clean top to bottom.
> If these had DD timbre I'm pretty sure I'd be done "collecting".
> 
> That said, the presentation and resolution are more than acceptable as a trade-off.
> ...



Ta


----------



## profusion

AmericanSpirit said:


> KZ SKS’s little brother, Z1 Pro arrived.
> 
> Basically SKS without 30019. But with only single dynamic driver handling full range, Z1 Pro does great job.
> 
> ...



SO SKS are the better choice since the price are almost similar?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

CT007 said:


> I like 01 bass more(DQ6 sounds like it's missing a chunk of bass FR), but overall DQ6 sounds way more natural and better to me. 01 sounds very...recessed or something, and the tiny shells don't help for fit. My 01 had a loose connector on one side, too. Certainly not screaming "good build quality". But I like ZAX and CKX more than DQ6, as well. We'll see where AST fits in soon


I see you the FH3, how do they compare to both of the above?

I was thinking of getting a pair, but if they are only marginally better it may not be worth it.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Alpha Whale said:


> Listening to AS12 right now. Very clean top to bottom.
> If these had DD timbre I'm pretty sure I'd be done "collecting".
> 
> That said, the presentation and resolution are more than acceptable as a trade-off.
> ...



My DAC quest became fairly involved.
I am still happy with Tempotec V1A as a DAP/transport - two SD cards (I am spoiled to carry all my limited music collection with me), good battery life, MSEB. V1A even has AK4376(?) DAC and works in a BT mode well, as a good bottom line option.
Then to expand on V1A, using it as a transport, I planned to use USB DACs. But other than Sonata HD pro, balanced USB DACs, need more power and do not work with V1A, much to my dismay;  even Sonata strains V1A too much.
Fiio BTR5 works in a DAC mode, but in this mode its battery life is under 3 h 15 min...

So all in all: I am after a DAC with a battery and balanced 2.5, as small in size/weight as possible.
My tentative choice is Fosi HD3PRO (ES9038Q2M, SA9227) at $80, but I would appreciate other DAC options under $150.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

profusion said:


> SO SKS are the better choice since the price are almost similar?


yea, if SKS is $29 and is better tunes. Vertical upgrade it will be.


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> My DAC quest became fairly involved.
> I am still happy with Tempotec V1A as a DAP/transport - two SD cards (I am spoiled to carry all my limited music collection with me), good battery life, MSEB. V1A even has AK4376(?) DAC and works in a BT mode well, as a good bottom line option.
> Then to expand on V1A, using it as a transport, I planned to use USB DACs. But other than Sonata HD pro, balanced USB DACs, need more power and do not work with V1A, much to my dismay;  even Sonata strains V1A too much.
> Fiio BTR5 works in a DAC mode, but in this mode its battery life is under 3 h 15 min...
> ...


Qudelix 5k is a reputable choice.


----------



## r31ya (Jun 2, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> My DAC quest became fairly involved.
> I am still happy with Tempotec V1A as a DAP/transport - two SD cards (I am spoiled to carry all my limited music collection with me), good battery life, MSEB. V1A even has AK4376(?) DAC and works in a BT mode well, as a good bottom line option.
> Then to expand on V1A, using it as a transport, I planned to use USB DACs. But other than Sonata HD pro, balanced USB DACs, need more power and do not work with V1A, much to my dismay;  even Sonata strains V1A too much.
> Fiio BTR5 works in a DAC mode, but in this mode its battery life is under 3 h 15 min...
> ...


If  you don't have problem with size, Xduoo XD05 Basic/plus is a great DAC/AMP
If you do have problem with size and didn't quite need the bluetooth thing, E1DA 9038D DAC/AMP dongle is pretty damn good.
Alternatively you could go for Xduoo Link2 with its 150mw@32 power.
There is a older SMSL Idea too.
If you have more budget go for IFI.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 2, 2021)

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I see you the FH3, how do they compare to both of the above?
> 
> I was thinking of getting a pair, but if they are only marginally better it may not be worth it.


I would take FH3, L3, ZAX, or YBF over them any day. L3 being the smoothest and most spacious, and definitely above avg bass or better. YBF closely as spacious, with 2nd nicest bass. FH3 seriously killer bass, good, avg space with nice imaging, but merely OK treble, and edgy/aggressive. ZAX has impresively natural treble, with solid bass, but not very defined(and that's OK).

L3 or YBF for gaming. FH3 or ZAX for music. If you want to save money, I would try ZSN Pro(ZAX Jr.), VK4(BASS) and DQ6(balance & tone).


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 3, 2021)

I just made a return on Amazon for a defective security camera and received $100 refund on balance, which pushed my back to order AST from KZ official shop, 138+tax😨.

AST incoming in 2-3weeks. Let’s see if AST is ZAX 2.0 or ASX 2.0. And I’d like to see if AST could get any closer to $100 beast TRI Starsea. It’s already 0.5 Blessing2 Dusk and Mangird Tea🥺 Hopefully Bellsing or Tenhz BAs and KZ tuning to start some miracles they did for KZ SKS.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> I just made a return on Amazon for a defective security camera and received $100 refund on balance, which pushed my back to order AST from KZ official shop, 138+tax😨.
> 
> AST incoming in 2-3weeks. Let’s see if AST is ZAX 2.0 or ASX 2.0. And I’d like to see if AST could get any closer to $100 beast TRI Starsea.


Did you go black or white? Waiting mine and can't wait for your input as you have a lot of IEMs on hand to compare it.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Did you go black or white? Waiting mine and can't wait for your input as you have a lot of IEMs on hand to compare it.


I usually pick blark/grey type but this time I went clear, as black BAs inside is more visible for some visual entertainment👌


----------



## IEMbiker

Quick update AST with new type sound tube. Look nice in clear shell. ( picture from buyer review).


----------



## AmericanSpirit

IEMbiker said:


> Quick update AST with new type sound tube. Look nice in clear shell. ( picture from buyer review).


That’s better!
I’m regretting getting clear ASX due the opaque sound tube, and the shell was too big. It looked like KZ simply assembled BAs by glue..


----------



## eclein (Jun 3, 2021)

Has anybody heard the AST yet? (Edit) ordered Silver set and will update when I get them.


----------



## PhonoPhi

eclein said:


> Has anybody heard the AST yet? (Edit) ordered Silver set and will update when I get them.


CCA global store just informed upon my inquest that my AST still was not shipped after more than a week ("tight supply"), sad  and no more any orders from them, definitely.


----------



## eclein

Sorry to hear of your troubles, I hope it gets worked out soon for ya. I ordered through Amazon from Linsoul and they said they had stock we’ll see how it goes, they didn’t have any green variants though. Mine still has to come from China I believe as my delivery date is basically next month.


----------



## IEMbiker

AmericanSpirit said:


> That’s better!
> I’m regretting getting clear ASX due the opaque sound tube, and the shell was too big. It looked like KZ simply assembled BAs by glue..


agree, the shell just too big, my ear pain after an hour of usage but I like the sound after rewired the 29689 BA. 
I don't have a measurement device or else will share the graph.


----------



## baskingshark

PhonoPhi said:


> CCA global store just informed upon my inquest that my AST still was not shipped after more than a week ("tight supply"), sad  and no more any orders from them, definitely.



Well, on the bright side, this may be as blessing in disguise, if it turns out to not be good from the first adopters impressions/reviews. Tis was super brave of you to do a blind purchase in the first place, considering the AST isn't cheap and so far KZ hasn't really proven itself in the > $100 USD market.

Anyways June Aliexpress summer sale is coming in a few weeks time and if it receives good feedback by then, prices may be better too.


----------



## eclein

I hate to write this but my AST’s shipped yesterday and are due sometime before July 20th! Its still a long wait but a more confident one! The last IEM I got from AliExpress took over two months to arrive so I’m done with them and will buy from Amazon or Hifigo from here on, “order, hope & wait” no more for me. It’ll probably come crushed into dust with my luck!


----------



## InvisibleInk

eclein said:


> I hate to write this but my AST’s shipped yesterday and are due sometime before July 20th! Its still a long wait but a more confident one! The last IEM I got from AliExpress took over two months to arrive so I’m done with them and will buy from Amazon or Hifigo from here on, “order, hope & wait” no more for me. It’ll probably come crushed into dust with my luck!


HiFiGo ships from China, too.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

My AST shipped by KZ official of Amazon USA, via USPS(probably only handling US domestic part), Estimated arrival June18-July 2


----------



## eclein

InvisibleInk said:


> HiFiGo ships from China, too.


I know and so does Linsoul/Amazon but I’m much more confident with either.


----------



## InvisibleInk

eclein said:


> I know and so does Linsoul/Amazon but I’m much more confident with either.


I’ve never had a problem with HiFiGo, Linsoul, (or Shenzhen), whether through Amazon, or direct from their websites, either.


----------



## voicemaster

Mine is still in Stockton, CA about 1.5 hours to my place (Dublin), but usps decided to hold it there for another freaking day.


----------



## G777

saldsald said:


> It is not exactly like this. I am not 100% sure but the 30095 makes up about 5% of the overall sound and the RC circuit together with the impedance of the 30095 actually cuts the response of the XUN. One of my units was wired incorrectly but I couldn't pick up any difference meaning the 30095 almost makes no sound. Both the CSN and the DQ6 I consider them very odd in design. There is a very tiny hole for the 30095 to transmit the sound to the nozzle so the volume is really low. Afterall the XUN is such a full frequency driver which needs very little tonal addition.


Do you know if the 2 little DDs in the DQ6 actually do anything?


----------



## PhonoPhi

G777 said:


> Do you know if the 2 little DDs in the DQ6 actually do anything?


They balance the IEM weight nicely and look cool 

On a more serious note, CSN and DQ6 sound noticeably different in the treble, and DDs are connected in a quite straightforward way.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 4, 2021)

Let me know if anyone's green AST from HiFiGo has shipped! Mine might have today, not sure yet...


----------



## saldsald

G777 said:


> Do you know if the 2 little DDs in the DQ6 actually do anything?


Oh yeah but very little. They just add a bit of note weight IMO and just to look cool there. The sound is quite soft unlike the 30095.






I tried various values and RC combos and I think the CSN sounds best with the original crossover values (20ohm 330nF) but replaced with better components. It actually sounds awesome and I consider one of the best IEMs in my collection.


----------



## G777

saldsald said:


> Oh yeah but very little. They just add a bit of note weight IMO and just to look cool there. The sound is quite soft unlike the 30095.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried various values and RC combos and I think the CSN sounds best with the original crossover values (20ohm 330nF) but replaced with better components. It actually sounds awesome and I consider one of the best IEMs in my collection.


Thanks for the graph! Looks like they actually contribute to the 5 kHz treble peak lol.

Did you use a different BA for the CSN?


----------



## saldsald

G777 said:


> Thanks for the graph! Looks like they actually contribute to the 5 kHz treble peak lol.
> 
> Did you use a different BA for the CSN?


No, as the hole for the 30095 is too tiny and the volume is very low it's not worth it. However, I bought a pair of CA4 going to mod it first and then I will put the XUN in there (I measured the 30095 in the CA4, it's really LOUD).


----------



## Wgibson

@saldsald that is a great graph for the csn and dq6.

I also really like the CA4 for some reason, one of my favorite cheap 1dd 1ba hybrids. BLON S1 takes the lead for me though, for below $20


----------



## saldsald (Jun 4, 2021)

Wgibson said:


> @saldsald that is a great graph for the csn and dq6.
> 
> I also really like the CA4 for some reason, one of my favorite cheap 1dd 1ba hybrids. BLON S1 takes the lead for me though, for below $20


Yea the CA4 has lots of treble detail but can be unnatural. Depending on the genre of the music I think it is quite good for some such as strings but not so good for vocal. I think it will be fun to put a XUN in the CA4.

BTW, I saw you building your own IEMs in the Home Made IEMs thread, I may need your advice later since I am trying to get the Bellsing 10013 already.


----------



## mndless (Jun 5, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Yea the CA4 has lots of treble detail but can be unnatural. Depending on the genre of the music I think it is quite good for some such as strings but not so good for vocal. I think it will be fun to put a XUN in the CA4.
> 
> BTW, I saw you building your own IEMs in the Home Made IEMs thread, I may need your advice later since I am trying to get the Bellsing 10013 already.


Edit: I just went to check on pricing and availability and it looks like all listings for the brand name BA drivers have been pulled from AliExpress. Not sure what the cause of this was, but it does invalidate my recommendation, so I felt the need for the update. Worth checking back on it occasionally, though.

Edit to the edit: I did *even more digging* and rediscovered the seller on AliExpress that I'd found listings from previously. For whatever reason, their products weren't showing when I searched for things. Here's their page for IEM components. Unfortunately, they don't have full datasheet images for all of their listings, so you may need to do some additional research while considering component selection.

If you're okay with a lengthy wait and trudging through lots of pages of listings, you can buy both Knowles and Sonion drivers from AliExpress. You can even buy the Sonion EST drivers there, but their pricing is quite prohibitive. I wish I had the patience and free time to pick up 3D modeling properly so I could design sound tubes and IEM shells for 3D printing with resin. The cost of 3D resin printers has dropped tremendously, particularly if you're purchasing from somewhere like AliExpress, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility to undertake such measures to reshell IEMs or even to develop your own. I just don't have enough experience designing crossovers, so that part in particular scares me.


----------



## saldsald (Jun 5, 2021)

mndless said:


> Edit: I just went to check on pricing and availability and it looks like all listings for the brand name BA drivers have been pulled from AliExpress. Not sure what the cause of this was, but it does invalidate my recommendation, so I felt the need for the update. Worth checking back on it occasionally, though.
> 
> Edit to the edit: I did *even more digging* and rediscovered the seller on AliExpress that I'd found listings from previously. For whatever reason, their products weren't showing when I searched for things. Here's their page for IEM components. Unfortunately, they don't have full datasheet images for all of their listings, so you may need to do some additional research while considering component selection.
> 
> If you're okay with a lengthy wait and trudging through lots of pages of listings, you can buy both Knowles and Sonion drivers from AliExpress. You can even buy the Sonion EST drivers there, but their pricing is quite prohibitive. I wish I had the patience and free time to pick up 3D modeling properly so I could design sound tubes and IEM shells for 3D printing with resin. The cost of 3D resin printers has dropped tremendously, particularly if you're purchasing from somewhere like AliExpress, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility to undertake such measures to reshell IEMs or even to develop your own. I just don't have enough experience designing crossovers, so that part in particular scares me.


I asked some sellers on AliEx and one of them told me they cannot ship to the US as they have an agreement with Knowles I guess they likely OEM for them. So, I contacted Bellsing directly I think I should be able to get a few pairs from them.

I actually happen to have looked at the pricing of some resin printers these days and found out it is really cheap now, a 2k resolution one is like USD 200 now. I may really get one to get serious with building my own.


----------



## voicemaster

Just received my AST. I like the faceplate with the matte texture and overall build quality is much better than the previous ASX/ASF. KZ also changed the lips that goes to your earlobe to be more rounded and the fit is better than ASX/ASF and DQ6. The size is comparable to CCA CSN. I will not do any review on sound yet.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Congrats!

Does it have the same narrower nozzle that the DQ6 and CSN have?


----------



## voicemaster

InvisibleInk said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Does it have the same narrower nozzle that the DQ6 and CSN have?


It does.


----------



## InvisibleInk

voicemaster said:


> It does.


Outstanding! I quite like that nozzle type. I can get Etymōtic flange tips on them for excellent isolation.


----------



## MacAttack7

Anyone know if the KZ Global Store is the same as KZ Official Store, or is it a separate company?


----------



## baskingshark

MacAttack7 said:


> Anyone know if the KZ Global Store is the same as KZ Official Store, or is it a separate company?



On aliexpress u can click on the shop name and go to details (top left hand corner), then click on business license and look at the address.

You'd be surprised that a lot of aliexpress shops under different names are all having the same address. There are only a few players actually, easy for shops to fly by night and set up from scratch if they get too negative reviews.


----------



## MacAttack7

baskingshark said:


> On aliexpress u can click on the shop name and go to details (top left hand corner), then click on business license and look at the address.
> 
> You'd be surprised that a lot of aliexpress shops under different names are all having the same address. There are only a few players actually, easy for shops to fly by night and set up from scratch if they get too negative reviews.


They have different addresses, so I'm not sure what KZ Global Store is.
If I buy KZ does it matter where I buy it? 
There are so many sellers, and some thread I read made me nervous about buying fakes or products that didn't pass QC.
Probably just making me paranoid.


----------



## Mouseman

MacAttack7 said:


> They have different addresses, so I'm not sure what KZ Global Store is.
> If I buy KZ does it matter where I buy it?
> There are so many sellers, and some thread I read made me nervous about buying fakes or products that didn't pass QC.
> Probably just making me paranoid.


You must be hanging out in the BGVP or TRN threads. I've bought from the Global Store and had no issues other than the usual shipping speed, although the last two times it was pretty speedy.


----------



## MacAttack7

Mouseman said:


> You must be hanging out in the BGVP or TRN threads. I've bought from the Global Store and had no issues other than the usual shipping speed, although the last two times it was pretty speedy.


I think it was on Reddit. I'm paranoid & untrusting by nature, so I shouldn't read those things!
The internet always leads me down some kind of a rabbit hole. Now let me get back to my Covid-19 research.


----------



## baskingshark

MacAttack7 said:


> They have different addresses, so I'm not sure what KZ Global Store is.
> If I buy KZ does it matter where I buy it?
> There are so many sellers, and some thread I read made me nervous about buying fakes or products that didn't pass QC.
> Probably just making me paranoid.



I've bought almost 200 items on aliexpress and about 10% turned out to be undelivered or defective.

Returning stuff to china is a pain. It can cost as much as a budget IEM itself. Additionally, sellers try to pull stunts and delaying tactics past the buyer protection timeline. They may insist for photo evidence for QC issues.



General rules to protect yourself:
1) buy only from shops with positive rep 95% or more.

2) do not buy from new shops with few or no ratings. Red flags are shops with some alphabet soup or numbers as their name.

3) ask others in the forums about their experience with XX shop. U can see after a while who are the trusted shops here.

4) use global tracking sites like www.17track.net to see where your parcel is. Aliexpress sellers not uncommonly use fake trackers on their site so as to meet KPI for postal times. I've had stuff claimed to be delivered to my home on aliexpress tracking, but on legit global trackers the stuff wasn't even sent out or in some siberian address (true story).

5) always pay attention to the buyer protection time line as aliexpress can still refund u within that period. A lot of sellers try to stall for time when something doesn't arrive. They ask u to cancel dispute and wait etc, but the moment u do, they can just fly away.

6) if the need comes to file dispute, take good photos/videos and perhaps conversations with the sellers as evidence, when submitting them to aliexpress.

7) pay by credit card. At least there's an additional layer of charge back dispute if things were not delivered or something.


----------



## CT007

I'm about to cave on this green AST myth.... It's not even showing up as an option on their official AE store. -_- Could be waiting for eternity on something that never existed!


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

CT007 said:


> I'm about to cave on this green AST myth.... It's not even showing up as an option on their official AE store. -_- Could be waiting for eternity on something that never existed!


Black looks nice. Ordered mine two days after release and it's already on its way in Brazil and if it weren't for a local holiday it would be here already.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff (Jun 6, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Just received my AST. I like the faceplate with the matte texture and overall build quality is much better than the previous ASX/ASF. KZ also changed the lips that goes to your earlobe to be more rounded and the fit is better than ASX/ASF and DQ6. The size is comparable to CCA CSN. I will not do any review on sound yet.


I can't wait to see your impressions on how it compares especially with the ZSX (which I have), ZAX and also Aria.


----------



## voicemaster

KZ AST seems to like more power. The sound is like night and day when switching between my P1 tube amp and trn BTR20S pro. Using amp, the sound is fuller with better separation, bass is more powerful and tighter, more open/airy on the treble. 
Comparing KZ AST and CCA CKX briefly, the sound signature is very different between the two. The AST is pretty similar to Moondrop Aria signature where the vocal is not as forward. The bass is definitely much more pronounce than CKX especially bass guitar. The bass has very nice texture and air rivaling a DD bass. Treble can be quite splashy on the attack but not on the decay. 
The Aria and AST share a kinda similar sound signature imho. The Aria is quieter compared to the AST. The Aria is overall smoother without any noticeable harshness whereas the AST has those peak on the treble that can annoy some people, but so far no sibilance. The bass is where the Aria differ from the AST. The mid bass is more elevated on the AST.


----------



## r31ya

So far sounds like that KZ AST is quite promising


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> KZ AST seems to like more power. The sound is like night and day when switching between my P1 tube amp and trn BTR20S pro. Using amp, the sound is fuller with better separation, bass is more powerful and tighter, more open/airy on the treble.
> Comparing KZ AST and CCA CKX briefly, the sound signature is very different between the two. The AST is pretty similar to Moondrop Aria signature where the vocal is not as forward. The bass is definitely much more pronounce than CKX especially bass guitar. The bass has very nice texture and air rivaling a DD bass. Treble can be quite splashy on the attack but not on the decay.
> The Aria and AST share a kinda similar sound signature imho. The Aria is quieter compared to the AST. The Aria is overall smoother without any noticeable harshness whereas the AST has those peak on the treble that can annoy some people, but so far no sibilance. The bass is where the Aria differ from the AST. The mid bass is more elevated on the AST.


What about soundstage and detail retrieval? Any impression you can share relating it to ZSX and ZAX?


----------



## Joseph Lin

boredbuyingstuff said:


> What about soundstage and detail retrieval? Any impression you can share relating it to ZSX and ZAX?





voicemaster said:


> KZ AST seems to like more power. The sound is like night and day when switching between my P1 tube amp and trn BTR20S pro. Using amp, the sound is fuller with better separation, bass is more powerful and tighter, more open/airy on the treble.
> Comparing KZ AST and CCA CKX briefly, the sound signature is very different between the two. The AST is pretty similar to Moondrop Aria signature where the vocal is not as forward. The bass is definitely much more pronounce than CKX especially bass guitar. The bass has very nice texture and air rivaling a DD bass. Treble can be quite splashy on the attack but not on the decay.
> The Aria and AST share a kinda similar sound signature imho. The Aria is quieter compared to the AST. The Aria is overall smoother without any noticeable harshness whereas the AST has those peak on the treble that can annoy some people, but so far no sibilance. The bass is where the Aria differ from the AST. The mid bass is more elevated on the AST.


Can you test dynamic?


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> What about soundstage and detail retrieval? Any impression you can share relating it to ZSX and ZAX?


Soundstage is quite big, less airy than the ZAX. Detail retrieval is very good. On some tracks, the instrument separation is quite apparent and the placement can be very different if you compare it to a single DD like Aria.

My favorite track for soundstage and the AST sounds awesome.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> Soundstage is quite big, less airy than the ZAX. Detail retrieval is very good. On some tracks, the instrument separation is quite apparent and the placement can be very different if you compare it to a single DD like Aria.
> 
> My favorite track for soundstage and the AST sounds awesome.



Can't wait for your updated version of how the AST ranks against your other IEMs. Waiting for mine here, I'll probably only get it by the end of this week unfortunately.


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 7, 2021)

So I just listened to my BA10 for comparison with the AST, they share almost the same sound characteristic where the vocal/mid take a step back a bit in the mix where the newer KZ (ZS10pro and newer) tend to have a forward/in your face vocal/mid in the mix. Even though the vocal is not as forward, but it is very clear and detailed.
I can say that the AST is a more direct successor of the BA10 line (all BA) instead of the ZS10pro line (hybrid).


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> So I just listened to my BA10 for comparison with the AST, they share almost the same sound characteristic where the vocal/mid take a step back a bit in the mix where the newer KZ (ZS10pro and newer) tend to have a forward/in your face vocal/mid in the mix. Even though the vocal is not as forward, but it is very clear and detailed.
> I can say that the AST is a more direct successor of the BA10 line (all BA) instead of the ZS10pro line (hybrid).


Some reviewers say that the ZSX has vocals/mids more recessed when compared to the ZS10 Pro. Therefore, if that's true and if you agree with that statement, would you say that the AST has its vocals/mids similar to the ZSX? I mean, if you already had the chance to compare both IEMs. Thanks,


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Some reviewers say that the ZSX has vocals/mids more recessed when compared to the ZS10 Pro. Therefore, if that's true and if you agree with that statement, would you say that the AST has its vocals/mids similar to the ZSX? I mean, if you already had the chance to compare both IEMs. Thanks,


The AST is darker than the ZSX. The sound is more fun than flat, but the details and clarity is very good.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> The AST is darker than the ZSX. The sound is more fun than flat, but the details and clarity is very good.


Are you using the stock cable or did you change it?


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 7, 2021)

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Are you using the stock cable or did you change it?


I am using silver cable from KBear. Also, the silver cable that came with the AST is different than any silver cable from KZ previous iem. 


The new cable is thicker and has metal 3.5mm jack.


----------



## InvisibleInk

voicemaster said:


> So I just listened to my BA10 for comparison with the AST, they share almost the same sound characteristic where the vocal/mid take a step back a bit in the mix where the newer KZ (ZS10pro and newer) tend to have a forward/in your face vocal/mid in the mix. Even though the vocal is not as forward, but it is very clear and detailed.
> I can say that the AST is a more direct successor of the BA10 line (all BA) instead of the ZS10pro line (hybrid).



A sonic successor to my beloved BA10? Sign me up!


----------



## CT007

voicemaster said:


> the silver cable that came with the AST is different than any silver cable from KZ previous iem.


Nuts!!!  #KZProgressHype

AST green is finally in stock!! At HiFiGo, at least. Mine shipped today ^ ^ They will battle Tri Starsea lol.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> The AST is darker than the ZSX. The sound is more fun than flat, but the details and clarity is very good.


Do you hear any roll-off after 6k?


----------



## Caipirina

Long time no KZ   
I think the last ones I bought were the AS16 and the Terminator ZSX ... 
now I am seeing 20 (ASX) / 24 (AST) BA monsters, 7BA+1DD hybrids (ZAX) ... and that 3DD DQ6 looks kinda nice, the ASF looks bulky for 'only' 10 units

Which brings me back to an old question / suggestion ... has anyone ever set up like a fan wiki for KZ stuff? It really would be neat to see what was released when, what's the set up, what 'line' they belong to ... and maybe some generic review links or 'consensus is these as sparkly'

But I think I am really done chasing after the latest greatest cluster of BAs .. at what number is it silly? I find 24 is kinda getting there. 

I think I will 'just' get the AZ09 dongles with the DQ6  this time around ...  the ZAX kinda tickles my fancy, but can it be THAT much better than the ZSX? 
Do I 'need' the EDX?


----------



## CT007

Caipirina said:


> Do I 'need' the EDX?


No.


Caipirina said:


> the ZAX


Yes! n_n


----------



## r31ya

Caipirina said:


> Long time no KZ
> I think I will 'just' get the AZ09 dongles with the DQ6  this time around ...  the ZAX kinda tickles my fancy, but can it be THAT much better than the ZSX?
> Do I 'need' the EDX?



EDX? maybe no.

But KZ DQ6, CCA CSN, KZ ZAX, CCA CA16, CCA CKX ? Get at least one of them.
The group listed above is from KZ/CCA new generation tuning.
Its more rounded or less sharp than the ol KZ barb-wire sound sig. It also brought decent textured bass compared to the old KZ blunt thumpy bass.


----------



## Nimweth

Caipirina said:


> Long time no KZ
> I think the last ones I bought were the AS16 and the Terminator ZSX ...
> now I am seeing 20 (ASX) / 24 (AST) BA monsters, 7BA+1DD hybrids (ZAX) ... and that 3DD DQ6 looks kinda nice, the ASF looks bulky for 'only' 10 units
> 
> ...


TRN BA15. 30BAs. Is that silly?


----------



## Caipirina

Nimweth said:


> TRN BA15. 30BAs. Is that silly?


OMG ... that looks like Tetris? Or someone really liked playing with blocks as a kid  





I'll be expecting an orchestra IEM any time soon that has a BA for each single instrument!


----------



## InvisibleInk

Caipirina said:


> OMG ... that looks like Tetris? Or someone really liked playing with blocks as a kid
> 
> 
> I'll be expecting an orchestra IEM any time soon that has a BA for each single instrument!


Mo is betta


----------



## Nimweth

InvisibleInk said:


> Mo is betta


It does get even more extreme:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/post-15018415


----------



## eclein

I love the BA10 and even with the fit issues thought it was excellent from day one if AST is similar I’ll be a happy camper when mine arrive soon! Thanks voicemaster for your thoughts, really appreciate them.


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> Do you hear any roll-off after 6k?





eclein said:


> I love the BA10 and even with the fit issues thought it was excellent from day one if AST is similar I’ll be a happy camper when mine arrive soon! Thanks voicemaster for your thoughts, really appreciate them.


The sound characteristic is similar but the AST is definitely more detailed and clearer in the mid area, also a bit more forward too.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> The sound characteristic is similar but the AST is definitely more detailed and clearer in the mid area, also a bit more forward too.


Would the AST work well with an iPod Touch, or does it kind of need an amp to deal with so many drivers?


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Would the AST work well with an iPod Touch, or does it kind of need an amp to deal with so many drivers?


I used the AST using my DX50 and Huawei mate 20X, it worked out just fine, plenty of power and overhead in volume. The only one that I find quite underwhelming was when I am using my TRN BT20S pro with the AST and the sound is okay, but it sounded kinda compressed for some reason.


----------



## voicemaster

The instrument positioning is absolutely amazing with the AST.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> The instrument positioning is absolutely amazing with the AST.



How do you know if it's the earphones or just an amazing recording? 
Does the instrument positioning sound inferior on your other earphones?


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 9, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> How do you know if it's the earphones or just an amazing recording?
> Does the instrument positioning sound inferior on your other earphones?


I listened using the CKX and AST, the AST offer more depth to the instrument. The CKX sounds good too, but everything kinda blend together.

At around 18:00 where the trombone/trumpet just went off, the sound in the CKX is just so in your face like there is no distance from the mic (it is quite far from the video) whereas the AST sounds show some distance and not as glaring imho. Btw, you need to move the camera angle to the middle of the stage because the sound is following where you look at the screen.


----------



## alamnp

MacAttack7 said:


> How do you know if it's the earphones or just an amazing recording?
> Does the instrument positioning sound inferior on your other earphones?


Some IEMs are forgiving for bad recordings, probably this one too?


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> Some IEMs are forgiving for bad recordings, probably this one too?


Definitely not forgiving, but I don't listen to DSD level of recording exclusively either.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> I listened using the CKX and AST, the AST offer more depth to the instrument. The CKX sounds good too, but everything kinda blend together.
> 
> At around 18:00 where the trombone/trumpet just went off, the sound in the CKX is just so in your face like there is no distance from the mic (it is quite far from the video) whereas the AST sounds show some distance and not as glaring imho. Btw, you need to move the camera angle to the middle of the stage because the sound is following where you look at the screen.



Whoa......had no idea you could move around the video with your finger....never knew that was a thing. 
AST sounds like a good earphone. May have to get one although I'm pretty happy with the poorly reviewed ASX. 
I'm sure the AST is better based on the reviews so far.


----------



## alamnp

voicemaster said:


> Definitely not forgiving, but I don't listen to DSD level of recording exclusively either.


I see, I guess 12 BAs each side should have superb placement and layering compared to 6 BAs for CKX.

More important question is: is it fun sounding or dry and technical? The balance of each are always the best sounding IEM around. 

So far, loving Believe single DD beryllium and superb technicality in mid tier LZ A7.

I have yet gone to high tier... I am assuming the rate of return or enjoyment decreased by the increased of dollar?


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Whoa......had no idea you could move around the video with your finger....never knew that was a thing.
> AST sounds like a good earphone. May have to get one although I'm pretty happy with the poorly reviewed ASX.
> I'm sure the AST is better based on the reviews so far.


I absolutely love the ASX. The AST sounds similar to my ASX, but the AST needs a bit more power to get the same volume as the ASX. The big difference is the size of the IEM and the lip shape which is more rounded. The ASX hurt my earlobe after about 1 hour of use where the AST, I can wear it all day.


----------



## voicemaster

alamnp said:


> I see, I guess 12 BAs each side should have superb placement and layering compared to 6 BAs for CKX.
> 
> More important question is: is it fun sounding or dry and technical? The balance of each are always the best sounding IEM around.
> 
> ...


It is more a fun sounding IEM. The bass hits really hard. The overall sound tone is on a darker side which is quite different than KZ ZAX or CCA CKX.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> I absolutely love the ASX. The AST sounds similar to my ASX, but the AST needs a bit more power to get the same volume as the ASX. The big difference is the size of the IEM and the lip shape which is more rounded. The ASX hurt my earlobe after about 1 hour of use where the AST, I can wear it all day.


Funny you should say that since I just took my ASX out after a couple hours and my ears were getting sore.
I do love how it stays in place though no matter what.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Funny you should say that since I just took my ASX out after a couple hours and my ears were getting sore.
> I do love how it stays in place though no matter what.


If you like the ASX, then you will surely like the AST. The build quality is much better, no sharp edges along where the faceplate and the resin glued together.


----------



## alamnp

awaiting reviews for AST, none so far


----------



## MacAttack7

alamnp said:


> awaiting reviews for AST, none so far


Search for KZ AST on twitter and then go to Latest and you can find some info. Have to use google translate on most of the pages though, and that has some interesting translations sometimes.  Something to do if you're bored.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

alamnp said:


> awaiting reviews for AST, none so far


Here's one review:


----------



## CT007

voicemaster said:


> Definitely not forgiving, but I don't listen to DSD level of recording exclusively either.


Less bright than ZAX?
Better treble than ZAX?
More bass than ZAX?
Better bass than ZAX?
Better fit than ZAX?
Better cable than ZAX ^ ^
Better tips than ZAX?
Comes with case?


----------



## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> Less bright than ZAX? Kinda
> Better treble than ZAX? It is kinda different presentation imho
> More bass than ZAX? Yes
> Better bass than ZAX? Maybe, it kicks harder than the ZAX. More midbass than ZAX too.
> ...


----------



## requal

voicemaster said:


> I absolutely love the ASX. The AST sounds similar to my ASX, but the AST needs a bit more power to get the same volume as the ASX. The big difference is the size of the IEM and the lip shape which is more rounded. The ASX hurt my earlobe after about 1 hour of use where the AST, I can wear it all day.


I still love my ASX and ASF (using them with cables in same price.. but.. nevermind). 
AST is tonal, resolution or timbre upgrade over them?


----------



## CT007

KZ store on AE told me there is no AST green...  I wonder what I just bought at HiFiGo was, then, hm. A little bottle of disappointment?    Clear it is!


----------



## MacAttack7

CT007 said:


> KZ store on AE told me there is no AST green...  I wonder what I just bought at HiFiGo was, then, hm. A little bottle of disappointment?    Clear it is!


There is though since they have actual pictures of it. 
Somewhere out there there is a green AST, at least one pair.


----------



## CT007

MacAttack7 said:


> There is though since they have actual pictures of it.
> Somewhere out there there is a green AST, at least one pair.


I'll see if I can do a pre-order, and get #000000002 off the factory ^ ^


----------



## baskingshark

alamnp said:


> So far, loving Believe single DD beryllium and superb technicality in mid tier LZ A7.
> 
> I have yet gone to high tier... I am assuming the rate of return or enjoyment decreased by the increased of dollar?



Midfi gear, IMHO is where the best price to performance ratio is.

Ballpark I would say moving from midfi to summitFI (TOTL), u are probably only getting 10 to 30% improvement in sound, but may be paying more than 10x for that diminishing returns. 

For example, quoting your KBEAR Believe and LZ A7:
- KBEAR Believe can hit about 70% sound of the TOTL Dunu Luna (both purported beyllium single DD). 
- LZ A7 can get to about 70% or so of the TOTL QDC Anole VX (both are multi driver sets that have tuning options).

Even TOTL gear have weaknesses, eg Dunu Luna has rolled off subbass and treble, QDC Anole VX has BA timbre and can be a bit hot in upper mids/lower treble.

Well at the end of the day, just spend within our means, if we can get audio nirvana with a sub $10 set like the sony MH755, some people are happy with that. But I understand some folks wanna chase that last 30% sound fidelity in summitFI at all costs, so as usual, different strokes for different folks.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 10, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Midfi gear, IMHO is where the best price to performance ratio is.
> 
> Ballpark I would say moving from midfi to summitFI (TOTL), u are probably only getting 10 to 30% improvement in sound, but may be paying more than 10x for that diminishing returns.
> 
> ...


For which I’m hoping Moondrop’s Blessing EST will be the best price to performance as it uses Aria’s LCP for bass, blessing2 /dusk’s mid range Softears MID BA, and Sonion EST for silky treble.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 11, 2021)

Initial impressions.... using Chord Mojo w/stock cable(love it!)+tips.

It sounds like ZAX with A) slightly smoothed treble(no more bothersome peaks!), B) *HUGE BASS BOOST*, C) fantastic, full-bodied vocals.

I hear only a very slight amount of hiss/noise when plugging into Mojo. Most IEMs I've tested produce about twice as much noise/hiss. They actually fit pretty well, so far. It's a weird fit, kuz they are so huge, so it feels rather unnatural, but snug enough. And that adorable little yellow bag..? To die for!

I can't believe how much bass this has lol... ZAX has about 53:47% treble:bass balance; AST is like 43:57%! Easily the most bass I've heard in an IEM so far. This thing is nuts. Imagine your ideal bass level, then add 25% bass boost ontop. The clarity is still quite sharp like ZAX, how I like it, but it's definitely being overtaken by the bass a bit. The treble is very, very pleasant/enjoyable... I have nothing but love for this treble! A smoothed out ZAX - _exactly_ the treble I wished for. I can throw bright content like The Killers, Weird Al, P.O.D. or Mech at AST and the treble is acceptably smooth compared to ZAX. This bass, though... Damn. They really dialed it up to 11 here. (o_o) This has MORE bass than VK4!!!

Because of the tremendous, underlying bass throughout the mids, and the excellently/*perfectly honed-in treble*(I could listen to this treble all day! I am shocked. The texture & space/separation/air is so good. FD5 you failed me!!!), these also have the *best vocals I've ever heard*, very likely. If not, the dull Oxygen has the best. Rather addictively good. Yes, I've never heard Weird Al sound this good & smooth before... The problem would be the building-shaking bass these have. Let's see if IEMatch+ can soften it up... Yep, the bass tones down a lot on ultra mode, but so does the treble. Have to EQ that bass down manually, to get rid of this extra bass warmth & power.

Metal, jazz, Chili Peppers, Buckethead, Pink Floyd and _all _elec guitars sound great. This fast, detailed, clear, wide open, non-peaky treble is _killing it_. *Imaging and depth is quite impressive*, too, with very nice sense of space, but most of the time the bass overpowers it, so you will notice it more the less bass there is(ambient & orchestral sounds just gorgeous/intoxicatingly smooth & engaging). I see ZAX having slightly flawed(peaky) treble + satisfactory bass, and AST having overkill bass + perfect treble. Pick your poison. I think ZAX is still winning, for much better balance, unless you EQ the AST bass down, then you have a serious winner. Maybe tips with holes in them, to eliminate a seal, would cut the bass?  Or going tipless?  (Is that even legal anymore..?)

_Too much bass never hurt anyone, _Grandma always told us younglings at the hifi battlestation. OK, Grandma; I have to make a small exception here ;P





AST - ZAX - FH3




So many songs sound great on these... but here's one that works well with their Turbo Bass. Full note weight, all the way through the whole FR, I love it!


----------



## requal

CT007 said:


> Initial impressions.... using Chord Mojo w/stock cable(love it!)+tips.
> 
> It sounds like ZAX with A) slightly smoothed treble(no more bothersome peaks!), B) *HUGE BASS BOOST*, C) fantastic, full-bodied vocals.
> 
> ...



How they compete to BGVP DM8? I see them in your signature. Can you compare both?


----------



## CT007 (Jun 11, 2021)

requal said:


> How they compete to BGVP DM8? I see them in your signature. Can you compare both?


Can't compare directly now, my Mojo just ran out of battery :< But from memory, I feel DM8 also has perfect treble & mids also, but in comparison to AST they are thinner, dryer, less engaging, no real wow factor(s), and a less interesting soundstage shape & depth. Of course much, much less bass, about half of my ideal, though I could say "it's alright for BA bass" still. Fit, build and overall quality better on DM8, but both are perfectly acceptable to me. Treble on DM8 is probably a touch smoother, but also lacking the engagement/connection that AST has so, so much of with that little bit more treble sharpness, more body/fullness and space/depth/separation/air.


----------



## requal (Jun 13, 2021)

CT007 said:


> Can't compare directly now, my Mojo just ran out of battery :< But from memory, I feel DM8 also has perfect treble & mids also, but in comparison to AST they are thinner, dryer, less engaging, no real wow factor(s), and a less interesting soundstage shape & depth. Of course much, much less bass, about half of my ideal, though I could say "it's alright for BA bass" still. Fit, build and overall quality better on DM8, but both are perfectly acceptable to me. Treble on DM8 is probably a touch smoother, but also lacking the engagement/connection that AST has so, so much of with that little bit more treble sharpness, more body/fullness and space/depth/separation/air.


Thanks a lot. I like this KZs bass boost from BA. Dm8 as you said have less quantity, but texture is quite good.


----------



## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> Initial impressions.... using Chord Mojo w/stock cable(love it!)+tips.
> 
> It sounds like ZAX with A) slightly smoothed treble(no more bothersome peaks!), B) *HUGE BASS BOOST*, C) fantastic, full-bodied vocals.
> 
> ...



The bass will tightened up a bit after some usage, but it is still a quite bassy iem.


----------



## Head-dicted

Hello 

Here I include a screenshot testing between ZSN EDX and the linear Soundmagic 11s. 
By checking the db differences you can get the meaning.
Original file  is a irregular 17 tones of -3db across the audio band


----------



## Head-dicted

I m also adding a audio level of the above file in terns of levels . Just compare them 
ZSN vs EDX vs Soundmagic E10c 
From the above 3 I prefer the more natural E10C, as the remain add to my tinnitus unless i use them for  poor audio cases as shortwaves


----------



## Brave Heart

Is the ZAX any better than the ZSX and ZS10 Pro?
I already think the ZSX and ZS10 Pro are great IEMS for the price, and use them regularly.


----------



## RCracer777

Brave Heart said:


> Is the ZAX any better than the ZSX and ZS10 Pro?
> I already think the ZSX and ZS10 Pro are great IEMS for the price, and use them regularly.


It is a definite step up from them. Think ZSX with bigger soundstage, better imaging, better instrument seperation, slightly better coherency and the fit of the ZS10 pro.

After getting mine my ZSX and ZS10 Pro barely get any listening time.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Brave Heart said:


> Is the ZAX any better than the ZSX and ZS10 Pro?
> I already think the ZSX and ZS10 Pro are great IEMS for the price, and use them regularly.


ZS10 pro and ZSX are great.

ZS10 pro represent KZ-V at its best and most vivid: mighty bass, sparkly treble 

In ZSX, the bass is more contained, and treble is more refined, but good (not overly polite like in C10 and CA16).

To me, ZAX is a good step forward from ZSX in treble - more refinement, more resolution. As for the bass, it is more subjective: bass of ZAX is more in quantity compared to ZSX, especially in the mid-bass. I would take the bass from ZSX and  treble from ZAX, while still ZAX overall. The hope was that ASX would be ZAX with the BA bass, it did not exactly happen due to narrow nozzles. Now the "hype is with AST, but still the same narrow nozzles... 

Back from my rant to ZAX, I still listen to ZSX sometimes and value ZS10 pro, but ZAX is a good/decent step forward in refinement and resolution to me.


----------



## IEMbiker

PhonoPhi said:


> ZS10 pro and ZSX are great.
> 
> ZS10 pro represent KZ-V at its best and most vivid: mighty bass, sparkly treble
> 
> ...


Actually, the new nozzle has 2 different bore sizes. ASX(narrow) DQ6(wide) . Both can be exchanged easily.


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEMbiker said:


> Actually, the new nozzle has 2 different bore sizes. ASX(narrow) DQ6(wide) . Both can be exchanged easily.


A ver good point!
Does the picture show the inside part?
The outer part of DQ6 nozzle is still much narrow.
In my experience with clarinet barrels, the sound (spectra, overtones) depends unbelievably on the bore and tapering (really just few hundreds of a millimetee for few-cm opening). In my limited experience with IEMs, any abrupt narrowing of the bores feel constraining.
In ASX, at least one BA guide is firing to the rim of the nozzle, which should not be right.
Hopefully, AST is better. I got them, spare TRNs, to play with the nozzles  I do have a spare DQ6 as well.
My AST is yet to be shipped though (second ordering attempt...)


----------



## Head-dicted

Brave Heart said:


> Is the ZAX any better than the ZSX and ZS10 Pro?
> I already think the ZSX and ZS10 Pro are great IEMS for the price, and use them


I have only these two models so i can compare them in between with graphics . The result is that the ZSN Pro gives a bright and clean sound in all instruments and  voice something that cant be shown in the EDX nor in the Soundmagic , this is something that can be clearly understood from the response curves


----------



## Head-dicted

I have a question between the A B and C types  and in what are the differences between the 0.75 and 0.78 mm 
As far example i can plug the TRN ZS1 cable to the KZ ZSN IEM  and work perfectly 
The same can happen between with KZ EDX cable with BLON03 , BON 03 cable cannot be used for the EDX 
TRN cable can't be used on BLON03 even if this seem to be very similar


----------



## Sebulr

Zachliang said:


> I have a question between the A B and C types  and in what are the differences between the 0.75 and 0.78 mm
> As far example i can plug the TRN ZS1 cable to the KZ ZSN IEM  and work perfectly
> The same can happen between with KZ EDX cable with BLON03 , BON 03 cable cannot be used for the EDX
> TRN cable can't be used on BLON03 even if this seem to be very similar


A is a straight barrel, B is curved, and C is curved and hooded. The Blon fitting is square whilst the KZ type C is curved on the inside so it dosn't fit on a blon, if you shave the blon it will fit. The size difference between 0.75mm and 0.78 mm is tiny and makes no difference, it is probably below the tolerance limits.

A straight cable will fit on a type c headphone or a blon but it won't cover the shroud of the earphone socket.


----------



## IEMbiker (Jun 13, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> A ver good point!
> Does the picture show the inside part?
> The outer part of DQ6 nozzle is still much narrow.
> In my experience with clarinet barrels, the sound (spectra, overtones) depends unbelievably on the bore and tapering (really just few hundreds of a millimetee for few-cm opening). In my limited experience with IEMs, any abrupt narrowing of the bores feel constraining.
> ...


yup, that's the inner part of the nozzle, can see that the DQ6 wall is so much thinner.
I swapped DQ6 nozzle with ZSN and hear shouty treble and the bass become lacked of punch so I go back to the original nozzle.
In a study show that nozzle diameter influence on RF (picture) :


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

CT007 said:


> Initial impressions.... using Chord Mojo w/stock cable(love it!)+tips.
> 
> It sounds like ZAX with A) slightly smoothed treble(no more bothersome peaks!), B) *HUGE BASS BOOST*, C) fantastic, full-bodied vocals.
> 
> ...




I come back after 6 months and you describe the perfect IEM. Now I have to buy the stupid thing.

BTW How does it compare to the FH3?


----------



## CT007 (Jun 13, 2021)

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I come back after 6 months and you describe the perfect IEM. Now I have to buy the stupid thing.
> 
> BTW How does it compare to the FH3?


I did a day of straight burn-in on the AST, and it still has Ronnie Coleman / T-Rex bass. o_ o But the treble/mids.... just keeps sounding better and better and better(it's not changing from burn-in, either, probably). I am getting pleasing results with simple bass EQ so far, however.

Well, FH3 treble/mids are pretty much worse all around. Too edgy/aggressive/harsh, less detail & note weight & tone, poor extension. The spaciousness and imaging in the mids is still very nice, though. The base is very good, and balanced and realistic/natural with great detail, extension and power. If only AST had FH3's base, or FH3 had AST's trebs....or if you can EQ AST's bass down lol. The fit of AST is better than FH3, too, for my ears. The KZ Gods have spoken loudly & clearly with this one..! I'm not even sure if Oracle treble/mids will sound better, once I get around to testing them on my upgrade DAC & amp soon. Sure wouldn't surprise me, if not... IEMs let me down, a LOT.  (But this Ikko OH10 is actually pretty decent)

If you don't wanna try AST, like I always say since I got mine, _just get a ZAX . _Or, get BOTH! ^ ^ They're cheap! =p


----------



## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> I did a day of straight burn-in on the AST, and it still has Ronnie Coleman / T-Rex bass. o_ o But the treble/mids.... just keeps sounding better and better and better(it's not changing from burn-in, either, probably). I am getting pleasing results with simple bass EQ so far, however.
> 
> Well, FH3 treble/mids are pretty much worse all around. Too edgy/aggressive/harsh, less detail & note weight & tone, poor extension. The spaciousness and imaging in the mids is still very nice, though. The base is very good, and balanced and realistic/natural with great detail, extension and power. If only AST had FH3's base, or FH3 had AST's trebs....or if you can EQ AST's bass down lol. The fit of AST is better than FH3, too, for my ears. The KZ Gods have spoken loudly & clearly with this one..! I'm not even sure if Oracle treble/mids will sound better, once I get around to testing them on my upgrade DAC & amp soon. Sure wouldn't surprise me, if not... IEMs let me down, a LOT.  (But this Ikko OH10 is actually pretty decent)
> 
> If you don't wanna try AST, like I always say since I got mine, _just get a ZAX . _Or, get BOTH! ^ ^ They're cheap! =p


The sound is kinda addicting tho. It is more of a "fun" sound. The bass is really more pronounced than the other KZs except maybe BA10.


----------



## Head-dicted

CT007 said:


> I did a day of straight burn-in on the AST, and it still has Ronnie Coleman / T-Rex bass. o_ o But the treble/mids.... just keeps sounding better and better and better(it's not changing from burn-in, either, probably). I am getting pleasing results with simple bass EQ so far, however.
> 
> Well, FH3 treble/mids are pretty much worse all around. Too edgy/aggressive/harsh, less detail & note weight & tone, poor extension. The spaciousness and imaging in the mids is still very nice, though. The base is very good, and balanced and realistic/natural with great detail, extension and power. If only AST had FH3's base, or FH3 had AST's trebs....or if you can EQ AST's bass down lol. The fit of AST is better than FH3, too, for my ears. The KZ Gods have spoken loudly & clearly with this one..! I'm not even sure if Oracle treble/mids will sound better, once I get around to testing them on my upgrade DAC & amp soon. Sure wouldn't surprise me, if not... IEMs let me down, a LOT.  (But this Ikko OH10 is actually pretty decent)
> 
> If you don't wanna try AST, like I always say since I got mine, _just get a ZAX . _Or, get BOTH! ^ ^ They're cheap! =p






Οκ what are the plus or minus between the zax and zsn pro I own?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Zachliang said:


> Οκ what are the plus or minus between the zax and zsn pro I own?


From what the general impressions are, ZAX is more refined version of ZSN Pro. More of the same but improved all round. So if you like ZSN Pro chances are that you will also like ZAX. It is mostly about how much you want that extra improvement at almost 3x cost.


----------



## Head-dicted

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> From what the general impressions are, ZAX is more refined version of ZSN Pro. More of the same but improved all round. So if you like ZSN Pro chances are that you will also like ZAX. It is mostly about how much you want that extra improvement at almost 3x cost.


*>>My Favourite IEMs* (Alphabetical order) - BQEYZ KB100, *KZ EDX (EQ'd), *Smabat NCO, Sony MH1, Tennmak Trio + TRN BT20, Tin Hifi T2, T2+
Just looked at the EDX (Eq'd)
How do you do that? Using an external equalizer?  thanks!


----------



## Nimweth

Zachliang said:


> *>>My Favourite IEMs* (Alphabetical order) - BQEYZ KB100, *KZ EDX (EQ'd), *Smabat NCO, Sony MH1, Tennmak Trio + TRN BT20, Tin Hifi T2, T2+
> Just looked at the EDX (Eq'd)
> How do you do that? Using an external equalizer?  thanks!


+1 for the NCO!


----------



## Nimweth

voicemaster said:


> The sound is kinda addicting tho. It is more of a "fun" sound. The bass is really more pronounced than the other KZs except maybe BA10.


Yes,  that BA10 bass is great! My two favourite KZs : BA10 and ZS7.


----------



## Alpha Whale (Jun 14, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> In ZSX, the bass is more contained, and treble is more refined, but good (not overly polite like in C10 and CA16).
> 
> To me, ZAX is a good step forward from ZSX in treble - more refinement, more resolution. As for the bass, it is more subjective: bass of ZAX is more in quantity compared to ZSX, especially in the mid-bass. I would take the bass from ZSX and  treble from ZAX, while still ZAX overall. The hope was that ASX would be ZAX with the BA bass, it did not exactly happen due to narrow nozzles. Now the "hype is with AST, but still the same narrow nozzles.



For me, ZSX has been getting a lot of use in the last three months. It is a very well-tuned in-ear for non-classical genres.
The reason the ZSX gets so much use (by me) is because I prefer its smoothness.
The CKX, like the ZAX in my estimation, has quantifiable improvements/refinement from top to bottom (treble, mids & bass) but, lately, I'm appreciating the less analytical tuning of the ZSX more.

It is worth mentioning that several days ago I was using the ZSX on a Samsung A30s and the midrange and treble had an uncomfortable bite. I immediately disconnected them from the smartphone and plugged them into my DAPs (Plenue 2 then Plenue R). The ZSX was buttery smooth on both DAPs. The "bite" vanished.
Be aware that it was the same exact file (320kbps-mp3) loaded on to both DAPs and the smartphone.

These were the tracks where the "bite" was present.
The bass was on point but the rest was slightly out-of-hand on the smartphone.



Spoiler














voicemaster said:


> The sound is kinda addicting tho. It is more of a "fun" sound. The bass is really more pronounced than the other KZs except maybe BA10.



If the AST is in fact the BA10 tuning revisited then the AST should be well worth the money, even at its "relatively" high price for KZ.

The best way I can describe the BA10 to someone who has never heard it is as follows:

The very clean and punchy bass is the table on which all of the individual flatware, stemware and china is set. The flatware, stemware and china are the various instruments while the bass with its width and depth carry the weight or form the foundation for the presentation. The BA10 is a bassy in-ear but it is neither congested nor boomy. If the AST presentation resembles the BA10's then we're in for a real treat. Especially since the "s" line balanced armatures are employed. Those particular BAs are an upgrade over KZ's standard BAs. This is my direct observation independent of any claims the manufacturer makes in their promotional materials.





 Whether one loved or hated the ASX/ASF you could clearly hear the performance improvement with the "s" line BAs. I was concerned that KZ might abandon using them since the ASX/ASF feedback was so unsettling. I'm glad KZ pushed forward and I'm looking forward to getting a set of silver ASTs. My expectation is that they wlll be a good addition to my collection.




> From what the general impressions are, ZAX is more refined version of ZSN Pro. More of the same but improved all round. So if you like ZSN Pro chances are that you will also like ZAX.



"IF" this is true (that's a big if) then returning the ZAX unopened was the right move for me. I didn't care for the ZSN Pro. The upper frequencies were clean and clear but they just went over the edge for my ears. Within the basic sound signature shared between the ZSN Pro, ZS10 Pro and the ZSX, the ZSN Pro is on the harsher end of the scale while the ZSX is on the smoother end of the scale. The ZS10 Pro lay between the the two. I prefer the ZSX.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Zachliang said:


> *>>My Favourite IEMs* (Alphabetical order) - BQEYZ KB100, *KZ EDX (EQ'd), *Smabat NCO, Sony MH1, Tennmak Trio + TRN BT20, Tin Hifi T2, T2+
> Just looked at the EDX (Eq'd)
> How do you do that? Using an external equalizer?  thanks!



I used PEQ on Neutron. You can use any music player/device that has PEQ. You can check settings here - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bes...reference-list.805930/page-1874#post-16355941


----------



## CT007 (Jun 14, 2021)

Zachliang said:


> Οκ what are the plus or minus between the zax and zsn pro I own?


I see ZSNP as a ZAX Jr. I definitely like ZSNP at it's price(along with the very bass, but-not-AST-bassy, VK4), but I never listen to them, if that tells you the difference.  All around thinner/lighter and more artificial sound, and less of everything else.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans

CT007 said:


> I did a day of straight burn-in on the AST, and it still has Ronnie Coleman / T-Rex bass. o_ o But the treble/mids.... just keeps sounding better and better and better(it's not changing from burn-in, either, probably). I am getting pleasing results with simple bass EQ so far, however.
> 
> Well, FH3 treble/mids are pretty much worse all around. Too edgy/aggressive/harsh, less detail & note weight & tone, poor extension. The spaciousness and imaging in the mids is still very nice, though. The base is very good, and balanced and realistic/natural with great detail, extension and power. If only AST had FH3's base, or FH3 had AST's trebs....or if you can EQ AST's bass down lol. The fit of AST is better than FH3, too, for my ears. The KZ Gods have spoken loudly & clearly with this one..! I'm not even sure if Oracle treble/mids will sound better, once I get around to testing them on my upgrade DAC & amp soon. Sure wouldn't surprise me, if not... IEMs let me down, a LOT.  (But this Ikko OH10 is actually pretty decent)
> 
> If you don't wanna try AST, like I always say since I got mine, _just get a ZAX . _Or, get BOTH! ^ ^ They're cheap! =p



Yeah, it's a funny situation. There's going to be an AliExpress sale, so I figured I should pick one of them.

I've been hearing good things about the ZAX for the longest time. I have a ZS-10 Pro and wouldn't mind an improvement. I also have a CA16. I like its detail and smoothness, but dislike the excessively rolled-off treble using the stock tips. It can be holographic, though.

The imaging, vocals, guitars - it sounds like the AST is good for the kind of music I enjoy. But the ZAX is fairly sophisticated and balanced. Then there's the new CCA CSX or whatever it's called. I have a pretty good track record with CCA.

I guess it will come down maybe to whatever is most affordable during the sale!


----------



## Nimweth

Alpha Whale said:


> For me, ZSX has been getting a lot of use in the last three months. It is a very well-tuned in-ear for non-classical genres.
> The reason the ZSX gets so much use (by me) is because I prefer its smoothness.
> The CKX, like the ZAX in my estimation, has quantifiable improvements/refinement from top to bottom (treble, mids & bass) but, lately, I'm appreciating the less analytical tuning of the ZSX more.
> 
> ...



Yes, that's pretty close to how I hear them. My pecking order would be:
1. ZSX
2. ZAX
3. ZS10 pro
However for me the ZS7 is the winner, pity it's so hard to find. Come on KZ, let's have the ZS7 Pro or X or whatever!


----------



## Wgibson (Jun 14, 2021)

IEMbiker said:


> yup, that's the inner part of the nozzle, can see that the DQ6 wall is so much thinner.
> I swapped DQ6 nozzle with ZSN and hear shouty treble and the bass become lacked of punch so I go back to the original nozzle.
> In a study show that nozzle diameter influence on RF (picture) :



That is really interesting, but not practical sizes. I have used 0.2mm ID tubes as a physical low pass for a the bass driver on a diy iem, and it is not reasonable to try anything smaller, especially for full range.




A nozzle diameter change from something like 3.5mm to 3mm for example, should not affect bass at all, should shift 2k-10k peaks left a bit and reduce volume a bit.

Edit: summary, the point I'm trying to make is that at 0.2mm and less, you're just showing when you can almost completely choke off the sound. For bigger tubes or nozzles (1mm+) the difference is subtle but still real in how it affects the peak frequencies and volume.


----------



## alamnp

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Yeah, it's a funny situation. There's going to be an AliExpress sale, so I figured I should pick one of them.
> 
> I've been hearing good things about the ZAX for the longest time. I have a ZS-10 Pro and wouldn't mind an improvement. I also have a CA16. I like its detail and smoothness, but dislike the excessively rolled-off treble using the stock tips. It can be holographic, though.
> 
> ...


Since Amazon is carrying more Chifi IEMs, would not touch Aliexpress anymore, refund process is non existent.


----------



## alamnp

CT007 said:


> Initial impressions.... using Chord Mojo w/stock cable(love it!)+tips.
> 
> It sounds like ZAX with A) slightly smoothed treble(no more bothersome peaks!), B) *HUGE BASS BOOST*, C) fantastic, full-bodied vocals.
> 
> ...



ehemmm placebo effects?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

alamnp said:


> Since Amazon is carrying more Chifi IEMs, would not touch Aliexpress anymore, refund process is non existent.


Yep, agree.


----------



## MacAttack7

alamnp said:


> Since Amazon is carrying more Chifi IEMs, would not touch Aliexpress anymore, refund process is non existent.


But the prices aren't even close quite often. I'd rather take my chance with AliExpress in most cases.
KZ ASX for example is $118 with Linsoul on Amazon, but it's only $72 on AliExpress.
No way I'm paying $46 extra for insurance.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Nimweth said:


> +1 for the NCO!


One of the most cleanest and refined set under $50. It's a tragedy that Smabat didn't produce many units. Clearly give Tin a run for their money in that category.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

MacAttack7 said:


> But the prices aren't even close quite often. I'd rather take my chance with AliExpress in most cases.
> KZ ASX for example is $118 with Linsoul on Amazon, but it's only $72 on AliExpress.
> No way I'm paying $46 extra for insurance.


I at times wonder how and why folks purchase other brands products from sites like Linsoul/Shenzhenaudio/Hifigo. Almost everything is super expensive over there. Not undermining their services (they're genuinely good sellers and might also be excellent with their after sales support) but it barely makes any sense from financial perspective to purchase products that aren't from their house brands.


----------



## alamnp (Jun 14, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> But the prices aren't even close quite often. I'd rather take my chance with AliExpress in most cases.
> KZ ASX for example is $118 with Linsoul on Amazon, but it's only $72 on AliExpress.
> No way I'm paying $46 extra for insurance.


yupe, but returnable, I would hate it to spend $72 for something that I don't like. At least for Amazon you could auditioned those IEM and just purchase the one that fits your needs and preferences. I am stuck with $280 LZ A7, Tripowin TC01: which for both I spent $350

if I buy from Amazon, I would keep my $350 and now I will already able to purchase Starshine from Tri.

Not to mention, I bought some TRN which failed after one week, they refused to refund it and asking for extra $10 for replacement. 

I am still stuck with missing stuff from Aliexpress which already in dispute but not refunded yet.


----------



## eclein

I hate waiting so long for stuff from AE, the last piece I bought took two months!
If I can’t find it on Amazon I’ll use Hifigo and pay the higher price to get it quicker in most instances and with after sales support if defective. I read about somone having a cable they got off AE be out of phase and the seller wanted a video of the problem which is ridiculous. Customer support on AE is done by using the word “friend” all the time every time and that got old real fast for me, your experience may vary, mine was horrible so I’ll pay a bit more for quicker delivery!


----------



## CT007

ShakeThoseCans said:


> Then there's the new CCA CSX or whatever it's called.


CKX? I liked ZAX more still, but it was better than TC-01, EA1, and DQ6 to my ears. Avoid AST if you can't EQ the bass down, or are sensitive to bass fatigue. It's overkill and uncomfortable, 100%.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 14, 2021)

alamnp said:


> ehemmm placebo effects?


About what..? Do you mean placebo, or "first blush/impressions"? I hold the same feelings about them since first hearing them. No changes. What do you disagree/doubt about it?

I'll be able to test them on an Asgard 3 tonight, so we'll see what that does.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

eclein said:


> I hate waiting so long for stuff from AE, the last piece I bought took two months!
> If I can’t find it on Amazon I’ll use Hifigo and pay the higher price to get it quicker in most instances and with after sales support if defective. I read about somone having a cable they got off AE be out of phase and the seller wanted a video of the problem which is ridiculous. Customer support on AE is done by using the word “friend” all the time every time and that got old real fast for me, your experience may vary, mine was horrible so I’ll pay a bit more for quicker delivery!


Uh huh. I hear ya. You pay for what you get.

2 months is way to long for me. When i order an IEM i want it the next day and if its stuffed, i want my money back the following day or a replacement.

This is a fast game and turnaround is everything.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

eclein said:


> I hate waiting so long for stuff from AE, the last piece I bought took two months!
> If I can’t find it on Amazon I’ll use Hifigo and pay the higher price to get it quicker in most instances and with after sales support if defective. I read about somone having a cable they got off AE be out of phase and the seller wanted a video of the problem which is ridiculous. Customer support on AE is done by using the word “friend” all the time every time and that got old real fast for me, your experience may vary, mine was horrible so I’ll pay a bit more for quicker delivery!


Hey mate,

I see you have 2 iems i'm thinking about getting.

How do you compare the Legacy 4 with the Starsea?


----------



## eclein

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Hey mate,
> 
> I see you have 2 iems i'm thinking about getting.
> 
> How do you compare the Legacy 4 with the Starsea?



Both are excellent a lot of people love the Starsea (the newest of the two I believe) the Legacy 4 got great reviews and I actually prefer it by a little bit. Your safe either way but I found a Mangird Tea used here in the trades and its my #2 behind my #1 Mest. I’m fine buying used stuff and never had a problem with anything I got its a great way to get the next level or 2 items much cheaper. My Mest is 2nd hand as are several of my best ones are actually. Both my L4 and Starsea I bought new they are very similar…….the Legacy 4 has a bit more detail which I love, my AST is somewhere nearby per tracking and the cost is similar to the other two you may wanna wait for more impressions of the AST before you jump! Sorry if my caffeine fueled post is hard to follow, long day here.


----------



## alamnp

eclein said:


> Both are excellent a lot of people love the Starsea (the newest of the two I believe) the Legacy 4 got great reviews and I actually prefer it by a little bit. Your safe either way but I found a Mangird Tea used here in the trades and its my #2 behind my #1 Mest. I’m fine buying used stuff and never had a problem with anything I got its a great way to get the next level or 2 items much cheaper. My Mest is 2nd hand as are several of my best ones are actually. Both my L4 and Starsea I bought new they are very similar…….the Legacy 4 has a bit more detail which I love, my AST is somewhere nearby per tracking and the cost is similar to the other two you may wanna wait for more impressions of the AST before you jump! Sorry if my caffeine fueled post is hard to follow, long day here.


yes please for AST


----------



## saldsald

IEMbiker said:


> yup, that's the inner part of the nozzle, can see that the DQ6 wall is so much thinner.
> I swapped DQ6 nozzle with ZSN and hear shouty treble and the bass become lacked of punch so I go back to the original nozzle.
> In a study show that nozzle diameter influence on RF (picture) :









You can also check out the FR curves of LZ A6 and A7. They come with a range of nozzles which alter the sound character quite significantly.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 14, 2021)

Starsea came in today. Very nice sound overall. Lacking treble refinement/precision/detail and maybe some space, otherwise I like it. Bass is very nice & beefy. Of course not terribly detailed/textured. Stronger than FH3, I think, but less detailed/realistic, and maybe less extended. Great fit. L4 has a very well-balanced, "standard" sound, but is too peaky and lacking soundstage space for me. Hard to say if I like L3 or Starsea better... I love the fit and spaciousness of L3 a lot. But Starsea bass is bigger.


----------



## ShakeThoseCans (Jun 15, 2021)

So Starsea is kind of a sidegrade from FH3 and L3, maybe a little better or worse than L4. Interesting, as I already have the Starsea, and was considering the FH3.

EDIT: I remember comparing my Starsea to my NM2+ a few months ago.

I found that the Starsea was more melodic, more 'syrupy.' It coloured the music more than the NM2+ in my opinion, which could be a good or bad thing. I found the Starsea a little better for 'folk' type music, where NM2+ was often better with live classical or jazz.


----------



## Head-dicted

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Uh huh. I hear ya. You pay for what you get.
> 
> 2 months is way to long for me. When i order an IEM i want it the next day and if its stuffed, i want my money back the following day or a replacement.


I have received things from aliexpress waiting around 3 months This time things remain in the local post systems for up to 1 month (spedpack from ebay )...


----------



## IEMbiker (Jun 15, 2021)

Wgibson said:


> That is really interesting, but not practical sizes. I have used 0.2mm ID tubes as a physical low pass for a the bass driver on a diy iem, and it is not reasonable to try anything smaller, especially for full range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's exactly what the author trying to do. Choke the DD treble and left just lower bass.
Full article here: https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/9/23/5047
Another way to do this is to put an acoustic filter array to achieve the target FR.


----------



## mndless

Zachliang said:


> I have received things from aliexpress waiting around 3 months This time things remain in the local post systems for up to 1 month (spedpack from ebay )...


My biggest delay when dealing with AliExpress has been with the third-party logistics companies that are supposed to take care of the handoff from customs to the last-mile mail carrier, like from customs to the USPS or UPS/FedEx. Pitney Bowes seems to be the greatest offender from what I've dealt with. I suspect it's probably a Covid-related delay thanks to personnel shortages and other general pandemic delays, since I've ordered from AliExpress in the past and received things from China in less than two weeks. As for Ebay, it's usually delays associated with getting the product to customs, then it can get hung up in the Ebay aggregating sorting facilities for days to weeks. I can appreciate how such logistics management facilities can help keep track of things more easily than having a bunch of smaller sorting facilities, but when they comprise a third of the shipping delay, then they're no longer serving their function and changes need to be implemented. Like, the last time I ordered a bunch of stuff from AliExpress, even with the added delay of them sorting and combining the various orders into fewer packages to be shipped in their aggregating facility, it left China within a week. It sat at Pitney Bowes for a week and a half while literally **** all happened. They were just supposed to shuttle it over to the USPS, but that took way too ****ing long. It took the USPS, like, 5 days to transport it from California to the other side of the continent. Which, for them, isn't particularly bad for standard shipping fare.

Edit: Neat, I didn't realize that the comment system here auto-censored things. This will be fun.


----------



## CT007

ShakeThoseCans said:


> I found that the Starsea was more melodic, more 'syrupy.'


Definitely! Reminds me of an LCD. 



ShakeThoseCans said:


> So Starsea is kind of a sidegrade from FH3 and L3


Yeah. I would say FH3 and L3 are both cleaner/less syrupy sounding, with L3 having a very smooth, spacious, but also BA toned sound. FH3 definitely has the worst fit, the most harsh treble, and possibly the least extended treble.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

eclein said:


> Both are excellent a lot of people love the Starsea (the newest of the two I believe) the Legacy 4 got great reviews and I actually prefer it by a little bit. Your safe either way but I found a Mangird Tea used here in the trades and its my #2 behind my #1 Mest. I’m fine buying used stuff and never had a problem with anything I got its a great way to get the next level or 2 items much cheaper. My Mest is 2nd hand as are several of my best ones are actually. Both my L4 and Starsea I bought new they are very similar…….the Legacy 4 has a bit more detail which I love, my AST is somewhere nearby per tracking and the cost is similar to the other two you may wanna wait for more impressions of the AST before you jump! Sorry if my caffeine fueled post is hard to follow, long day here.


Thanks for that.  Yeah i think i might wait for the AST. Seems like there are a few delays in people getting their hands on them.

Out of curiosity, which is your #1 iem?


----------



## paulwasabii

mndless said:


> My biggest delay when dealing with AliExpress has been with the third-party logistics companies that are supposed to take care of the handoff from customs to the last-mile mail carrier, like from customs to the USPS or UPS/FedEx. Pitney Bowes seems to be the greatest offender from what I've dealt with. I suspect it's probably a Covid-related delay thanks to personnel shortages and other general pandemic delays, since I've ordered from AliExpress in the past and received things from China in less than two weeks. As for Ebay, it's usually delays associated with getting the product to customs, then it can get hung up in the Ebay aggregating sorting facilities for days to weeks. I can appreciate how such logistics management facilities can help keep track of things more easily than having a bunch of smaller sorting facilities, but when they comprise a third of the shipping delay, then they're no longer serving their function and changes need to be implemented. Like, the last time I ordered a bunch of stuff from AliExpress, even with the added delay of them sorting and combining the various orders into fewer packages to be shipped in their aggregating facility, it left China within a week. It sat at Pitney Bowes for a week and a half while literally **** all happened. They were just supposed to shuttle it over to the USPS, but that took way too ****ing long. It took the USPS, like, 5 days to transport it from California to the other side of the continent. Which, for them, isn't particularly bad for standard shipping fare.
> 
> Edit: Neat, I didn't realize that the comment system here auto-censored things. This will be fun.


`00% agree.  I have had items arrive to the shipping partner in a couple of weeks and then spend a couple of months waiting for them to hand it over to USPS.


----------



## voicemaster

I usually buy IEM that I want to try on Amazon and if I like it, I will order a second one on AliExpress.


----------



## Head-dicted

voicemaster said:


> I usually buy IEM that I want to try on Amazon and if I like it, I will order a second one on AliExpress.


This year I had two lost parcels from Amazon uk and one bad order for a monophonic BT transmitter
Fortunately the company returned the money back
FYI the next BT transmitter was a real stereo for just 8 usd via eBay with 250 ms latency and audio ok


----------



## voicemaster

Head-dicted said:


> This year I had two lost parcels from Amazon uk and one bad order for a monophonic BT transmitter
> Fortunately the company returned the money back
> FYI the next BT transmitter was a real stereo for just 8 usd via eBay with 250 ms latency and audio ok


Fortunately, I haven't lost any package from any stores yet this year and last year.


----------



## eclein

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Thanks for that.  Yeah i think i might wait for the AST. Seems like there are a few delays in people getting their hands on them.
> 
> Out of curiosity, which is your #1 iem?


1) MEST 

My KZ-AST scanned through JFK (NY) yesterday, Tuesday, I’m a short distance from there in Pennsylvania so with the USPS handling it I figure another month, or two!


----------



## voicemaster

eclein said:


> 1) MEST
> 
> My KZ-AST scanned through JFK (NY) yesterday, Tuesday, I’m a short distance from there in Pennsylvania so with the USPS handling it I figure another month, or two!


2022!


----------



## MacAttack7

Looks like KZ AST will be going as low as $98 on AliExpress with the June sale. 
I definitely don't need one, but I'm a sucker for sales. 
Still not feeling too sure about it one way or the other based on the limited reviews so far.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 16, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> Still not feeling too sure about it one way or the other based on the limited reviews so far.


Besides the turbo bass, it's a winner!  The lighter the music is, the more recommendable they are.


----------



## MacAttack7

CT007 said:


> Besides the turbo bass, it's a winner!


Would I notice much difference compared to the ASX?
With my poor tastes I really like those. Not sure what it is, but I put those on and I just get absorbed in the music for some reason.
I don't get the same feeling with my other earphones/headphones.


----------



## dougms3

CT007 said:


> Besides the turbo bass, it's a winner!  The lighter the music is, the more recommendable they are.


You had me at turbo bass.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 16, 2021)

dougms3 said:


> You had me at turbo bass.


You have been warned ;P



MacAttack7 said:


> Would I notice much difference compared to the ASX?
> With my poor tastes I really like those. Not sure what it is, but I put those on and I just get absorbed in the music for some reason.
> I don't get the same feeling with my other earphones/headphones.


Haven't heard ASX, but I believe I've heard they are very similar, with AST maybe having a bit better treble and fit, and probably the better, new KZ cable. If ASX is too heavy of a sound, I would try a ZAX for sure. Or maybe CKX. I agree with you very much about how engaging and satisfying the ASX sound is, assuming it sounds like AST.   A sound like this is rare. I find most IEMs anywhere near this price to be mostly about treble; thin, fairly depthless, and characterless


----------



## regancipher

AmericanSpirit said:


> even it is a TWS. With proper ear tips, KZ SKS is one of the best tuned out of KZ from my 20+ KZ experience! Wow! KZ nailed it! Not a typical 30095. It sounds harman-ish W-shape tuning, no big spikes, smooth and bass focused.
> 
> I can recall this sound signature as a bit brighter Mangird Tea. This brings me hope for AST, it might actually work! AST uses a bunch of #30019 BAs which SKS uses 1x custom-tuned 30019 +10mm DD.
> 
> ...


I am just posting my review now....amazed KZ finally produced a decent set of TWS!


----------



## paulwasabii

regancipher said:


> I am just posting my review now....amazed KZ finally produced a decent set of TWS!


Now I am curious about the Z3


----------



## regancipher

SKS review here


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> For which I’m hoping Moondrop’s Blessing EST will be the best price to performance as it uses Aria’s LCP for bass, blessing2 /dusk’s mid range Softears MID BA, and Sonion EST for silky treble.


It is available on TaoBao for RMB 2998 now and I am tempted to get my first EST. It is very likely that the DD is a full frequency one (maybe the same one in the Aria?) and the BA is there to add more note weight and then of course the EST is there to add air.


----------



## Keputs

regancipher said:


> SKS review here


Very well-written with nice images to boot. Kudos 👌


----------



## eclein

According to my USPS app my AST is out for delivery today. I really hope that happens but recent history tells me differently, I’ll update as soon as they come.


----------



## eclein

On my trusty electric scooter I ran into my postman out and about so he was kind enough to grab my package and hand it to me at 11:30am (our building is his last stop around 7:30pm each day) huge time savings! I’ll be back in awhile with update.


----------



## CT007

eclein said:


> On my trusty electric scoo


Damn, no green 😢


----------



## eclein

Nope no green here just silver/clear, but they sound excellent! Lots of enjoyable low end done really well being all balanced armature drivers. The bass is there but it doesn’t overwhelm the sound to me. There is very nicely done mids and high end sound that sits atop the low end and deals out great detail across the board. No sibilance that I hear at all. I’ve listened 3 separate times using stock cable and Spiral Dot tips with the Xelastic tips I ordered just now arriving from Amazon so more to follow. They get clearer and more coherent as they break in, its very evident with mine how much better they sound after the first hours listening. Each session after my initial one has brought nice subtle change so don’t jump to conclusions after 10 minutes of listening, they sounded fine to me right out of the box but are getting better all along. I like them! More later on after I fiddle with tips and stuff !!!!


----------



## courierdriver

PhonoPhi said:


> ZS10 pro and ZSX are great.
> 
> ZS10 pro represent KZ-V at its best and most vivid: mighty bass, sparkly treble
> 
> ...


Skipped the ZSX...but I own both the ZS10 PRO and ZAX. I find the ZAX a bit of an improvement to the ZS10 Pro...but not by very much. Both are in my regular rotation; along with Blon BL03 and KBEAR KS1.


----------



## Head-dicted

courierdriver said:


> Skipped the ZSX...but I own both the ZS10 PRO and ZAX. I find the ZAX a bit of an improvement to the ZS10 Pro...but not by very much. Both are in my regular rotation; along with Blon BL03 and KBEAR KS1.


Haveing tested pnly EDX and ZSNp I prefer the latter. Also tested the  TRN SM1 which sounds as like neutral comapring to the remain ...


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

eclein said:


> On my trusty electric scooter I ran into my postman out and about so he was kind enough to grab my package and hand it to me at 11:30am (our building is his last stop around 7:30pm each day) huge time savings! I’ll be back in awhile with update.


I go everywhere in London by electric scooter and love them. Which one do you have?

Looking forward to your thoughts on the AST. I held off buying the Starsea till I find out how good the AST is.

Keep us updated mate.


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## Barusu Lamperouge (Jun 19, 2021)

Head-dicted said:


> Haveing tested pnly EDX and ZSNp I prefer the latter. Also tested the  TRN SM1 which sounds as like neutral comapring to the remain ...


The extra BA will always give better performance over a single DD especially for KZ. ZSN are one of my all time favourite KZs along with ED9. For $10, there aren't many IEMs that sound as good as them. I've skipped all ZS models since ZSN as I'm very much satisfied with ZSN and didn't want to spend 4x or 5x for more of the same with incremental gains. I bought EDX as it was a cheapie single DD from KZ in many eons.

Unfortunately due to Covid, I've misplaced both ZSN and ED9 while moving my stuff from workplace to home.


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## eclein (Jun 19, 2021)

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I go everywhere in London by electric scooter and love them. Which one do you have?
> 
> Looking forward to your thoughts on the AST. I held off buying the Starsea till I find out how good the AST is.
> 
> Keep us updated mate.


I thought I had a picture of it but I don’t, its E-byke E15 it only does 15mph max but needs no insurance, has a seat and folds up. Weighs 42lbs so I put it in a shopping cart and shop for a backpacks worth of food! Peripheral Neuropathy keeps me from driving and walking without a cane but the scooter is my way to grab stuff from local stores, it has a 25 mile range but I’ve never gone more than 5~6 miles at a time. I’m 63 retired and currently a recliner pilot full time!

The AST sounds very good with lots of detail and nice low end. Its smoothed out over time and I put Xelastic tips and a nicer cable on them and turned it into a seriously well balanced fun to listen to detail monster. I’m loving it more and more, the tips have made a huge positive impact for me. I’m of the opinion that KZ finally put together a winner here, 12 BAs all working very coherently! The bass was prominent out of the box but now the next day with 10-12 hours of using  Xelastic tips and a decent upgraded cable its very well balanced to my ears. Its a definite keeper for me and ranks pretty high in my collection, too early to define where exactly but its in my top ten I think for sure the way I have it now. This is just my opinion everybody hears differently but I like it very much.


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## CT007

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I held off buying the Starsea till I find out how good the AST is.


I like AST more in every way except for fit and when the bass levels get out of control. I don't find Starsea to be very spacious, detailed, or extended(like AST). It's a well-done, balanced, but rather intimate/depthless sound, that I do enjoy the bass/subbass & fit & tunings of. It's like a much warmer, bassier, non-harsh/peaky version of L4. AST will wow you a lot more.


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## MacAttack7

What issue is there with the fit?
I don't enjoy using earphones, no matter how good they sound, if they don't fit and stay in place.

I've found the recent KZ/CCA's fit well due to that protrusion at the top clipping in under part of the ear.
DQ6 and ASX both fit quite well although I have to fiddle around with the ASX sometimes for my left ear....right ear is perfect.


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## CT007 (Jun 19, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> What issue is there with the fit?


AST is just huge, as you can see in the comparison pic with FH3 & ZAX. (I'm not sure if it's bigger than Starlight, but could be. It fits better than Starlight, though.) It does actually fit me fine, remarkably, but it's not a snug or ideal/optimal fit like L3 or Starsea. If ASX fits you fine, I wouldn't worry; they should be about the same.


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## eclein

I don’t have any issue with the fit, they are big and stick out of the ear more but they feel solid to me.


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## voicemaster

CT007 said:


> AST is just huge, as you can see in the comparison pic with FH3 & ZAX. (I'm not sure if it's bigger than Starlight, but could be. It fits better than Starlight, though.) It does actually fit me fine, remarkably, but it's not a snug or ideal/optimal fit like L3 or Starsea. If ASX fits you fine, I wouldn't worry; they should be about the same.


AST is a bit smaller than ASX, bigger than DQ6 and about the same tho a little bit different shape than CSN.


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## Capo Dei Capi

eclein said:


> I thought I had a picture of it but I don’t, its E-byke E15 it only does 15mph max but needs no insurance, has a seat and folds up. Weighs 42lbs so I put it in a shopping cart and shop for a backpacks worth of food! Peripheral Neuropathy keeps me from driving and walking without a cane but the scooter is my way to grab stuff from local stores, it has a 25 mile range but I’ve never gone more than 5~6 miles at a time. I’m 63 retired and currently a recliner pilot full time!
> 
> The AST sounds very good with lots of detail and nice low end. Its smoothed out over time and I put Xelastic tips and a nicer cable on them and turned it into a seriously well balanced fun to listen to detail monster. I’m loving it more and more, the tips have made a huge positive impact for me. I’m of the opinion that KZ finally put together a winner here, 12 BAs all working very coherently! The bass was prominent out of the box but now the next day with 10-12 hours of using  Xelastic tips and a decent upgraded cable its very well balanced to my ears. Its a definite keeper for me and ranks pretty high in my collection, too early to define where exactly but its in my top ten I think for sure the way I have it now. This is just my opinion everybody hears differently but I like it very much.


Thanks for the update.

I've never owned a solely BA IEM. I usually prefer to have a DD for the bass, but i'm thinking it might be time.  I guess its getting more time than the starsea at the moment.

Good to see the US has legalized scooters. The UK is still years behind as usual.


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## Capo Dei Capi

CT007 said:


> I like AST more in every way except for fit and when the bass levels get out of control. I don't find Starsea to be very spacious, detailed, or extended(like AST). It's a well-done, balanced, but rather intimate/depthless sound, that I do enjoy the bass/subbass & fit & tunings of. It's like a much warmer, bassier, non-harsh/peaky version of L4. AST will wow you a lot more.


Thanks for the advice. 

Nice to hear from someone who owns both.

Owning something with 24 BA's should be mandatory for any collector.


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## artatgray

"In my opinion, this is by far the best earphone KZ has ever made, and if you are already a fan of the brand, then I can happily recommend you check them out. There are many good earphones at this price, but for an all BA model, I think this is one of the best I have personally heard. Thumbs up, and let’s hope KZ takes this new direction and sticks to it..."


https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-ast-review


----------



## Head-dicted

artatgray said:


> "In my opinion, this is by far the best earphone KZ has ever made, and if you are already a fan of the brand, then I can happily recommend you check them out. There are many good earphones at this price, but for an all BA model, I think this is one of the best I have personally heard. Thumbs up, and let’s hope KZ takes this new direction and sticks to it..."
> 
> 
> https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-ast-review


And as seen in the linked amazon page posibly the company's most expensive ...also very high  in Ali Possibly only for musicians


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## eclein

Anybody else try Xelastic tips on CKX? They isolate much better and just make the CKX shine! I think the CKX is KZ’s best to date myself,
anyone else feel that way?


----------



## Nimweth

eclein said:


> Anybody else try Xelastic tips on CKX? They isolate much better and just make the CKX shine! I think the CKX is KZ’s best to date myself,
> anyone else feel that way?


It is in my top three KZ/CCA along with the ZS7 and BA10.


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## AmericanSpirit (Jun 21, 2021)

AST arrived, out of box impression “hmmm? Bass dominated 🌫 “
Going to do some ear tips and cable roll, I found CP100+ fits good. As original tuning is V shape.
About same size with qdc Anole VX(10BA). Size smaller than ASX, which is a huge progress👍 Trying to benchmark AST with Anole VX with bass boost mode (1-0-0)
Trying with XINHS Graphene cable. It was $39.


----------



## MacAttack7

AmericanSpirit said:


> AST arrived, out of box impression “hmmm? Bass dominated 🌫 “
> Going to do some ear tips and cable roll, I found CP100+ fits good. As original tuning is V shape.


Hurry up and review! 
I'm thinking about getting a pair if they are really that much better than the ASX (which I like).

Also wondering if they will work well plugged directly into an iPod Touch.
I see they can be had for $91 with the sale going on and a coupon.
I definitely don't need them, so maybe I'll resist!


----------



## voicemaster

eclein said:


> Anybody else try Xelastic tips on CKX? They isolate much better and just make the CKX shine! I think the CKX is KZ’s best to date myself,
> anyone else feel that way?


Hmm... the AST might take that crown imho. But from practical and build stand point, the CKX is hard to beat. It is tiny that you can wear it while sleeping on your side not an issue as they are pretty much inside the ears opening for me at least.


----------



## CT007

I haven't heard all KZ or CCA, but so far it's AST/ZAX -> CKX -> AS10 for me, though I returned CKX and kept AS10.


----------



## mndless

eclein said:


> Anybody else try Xelastic tips on CKX? They isolate much better and just make the CKX shine! I think the CKX is KZ’s best to date myself,
> anyone else feel that way?


I haven't tried that many IEMs from KZ and CCA, as the CKX was my second purchase after dismissing the ZS5 as too treble-forward for my needs. A dab of EQ to level out the peaks in the treble and they sound shockingly good for their price point. I'm rocking them with the Sony Triple Comfort eartips at the moment and they get that nice bass gain without losing out on treble or mids, and the staging and placement seem better than when I was using even Spinfits. Quite comfy too. We'll see how I feel about their price/performance when some of the other IEMs I've recently ordered finally come in, but they're definitely an excellent choice for someone just starting their IEM journey, particularly due to their extremely compact size that makes them generally comfortable enough to even sleep in.


----------



## voicemaster

AmericanSpirit said:


> AST arrived, out of box impression “hmmm? Bass dominated 🌫 “
> Going to do some ear tips and cable roll, I found CP100+ fits good. As original tuning is V shape.


I had that impression too when I first got it. Overwhelming bass!! But I think either I am getting used to it or the burn in is real, I don't feel the bass overwhelming anymore. I kinda like it that I can hear the bass guitar clearly with the AST.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

voicemaster said:


> I had that impression too when I first got it. Overwhelming bass!! But I think either I am getting used to it or the burn in is real, I don't feel the bass overwhelming anymore. I kinda like it that I can hear the bass guitar clearly with the AST.


Hmm thanks! I may give some burning to AST👍 Right now it’s a 🌫 festival 😂


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## eclein

Bass cannons for me also out of the box, AST that is but mine settled down considerably after about 10 hours. They got more coherent, more detailed and better balanced after time.


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## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> Hmm thanks! I may give some burning to AST👍 Right now it’s a 🌫 festival 😂


As far as I am aware, BA drivers don't change substantially with burn-in. Still, no real harm in trying it. I expect tip and cable rolling will be where the real magic is for them. If you want a quick way to help narrow down which eartips to try out, check out This list of eartip reviews from AudioReviews.org. I found them very helpful and their assessments have matched up well with my own findings for the eartips I've tried that they've reviewed.


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## AmericanSpirit

eclein said:


> Bass cannons for me also out of the box, AST that is but mine settled down considerably after about 10 hours. They got more coherent, more detailed and better balanced after time.


Thanks for the tip! Yea while I rolling cables, I do feel potentials.


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## boredbuyingstuff (Jun 21, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I had that impression too when I first got it. Overwhelming bass!! But I think either I am getting used to it or the burn in is real, I don't feel the bass overwhelming anymore. I kinda like it that I can hear the bass guitar clearly with the AST.


I've been listening to my AST since friday and at first it seemed to me a little muffled compared to the ZSX which sounded more "airy". I don't know if my brain adjusted to the sound of the AST but it is so much "airier" now and sounds cleaner comparing to the first two days. For me there's no turning back to the ZSX as the AST seems an improvement in every single way to it and I'm just loving it.

By the way, I'm listening to it plugged directly from the 3.5mm port on a Samsung Chromebook and I can't go above 45-50% or it's too loud for me... I got a DAC incoming so let's see if the AST will change then.

I can't wait to hear your impressions!


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## boredbuyingstuff (Jun 21, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Thanks for the tip! Yea while I rolling cables, I do feel potentials.


As for cables, I started using XINHS 8 core copper & pure silver cable and then switched back to the stock cable which I've been since and honestly the sound is absolutely the same.

I have been using Spinfit CP360 L since the beginning and didn't even bother trying the stock ones.


----------



## mndless

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I've been listening to my AST since friday and at first it seemed to me a little muffled compared to the ZSX which sounded more "airy". I don't know if my brain adjusted to the sound of the AST but it is so much "airier" now and sounds cleaner comparing to the first two days. For me there's no turning back to the ZSX as the AST seems an improvement in every single way to it and I'm just loving.
> 
> By the way, I'm listening to it plugged directly from the 3.5mm port on a Samsung Chromebook and I can't go above 45-50% or it's too loud for me... I got a DAC incoming so let's see if the AST will change then.
> 
> I can't wait to hear your impressions!


I've got a HiBy R3 Pro Sabre that I've been using when I want the best SQ, and even compared to running my IEMs off the usually spectacular "quad DAC" output from my LG V30, the difference is staggering. Much more detail in every frequency range, more powerful bass and less aggressive treble compared to the V30's output with the same cables. Everything is just tighter and more controlled. I do think everyone should have a DAP or DAC like that, even if it isn't your daily driver, if only for sanity checks. Plus, the R3 can be used as a USB transceiver that supports LDAC when connected to Windows, Mac, and Linux. It's not even crazy expensive to get the R3 Pro Sabre model for the slightly more analytical nature of the ESS DAC/amp combo chips.


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## AmericanSpirit (Jun 21, 2021)

😂 that’s exactly what I’m doing.
Tried 10-20 cables, and went back to stock cable, the 10khz+ with stock cable is  more elevated, making it bit more resolving. But the overall tuning now I feel it L(U) shape with recessed 10khz+.  Compared to ZAX type it’s definitely darker same to ASX.
KZ probably heard many voices of “KZ treble is too peaky” and darkened that part I guess.
At current state, there is a huge gap between my midrange multidriver benchmark Mangird Tea(Dark signature) and AST(bass boost and dark)
12BA does add separation capability but the separation is not coherent, so instrumental separation (for classical music and large scale ensemble) is a bit hard to ask. Works great for electronic music.

I’d try burn AST in for 30 hours and see if the veil is gone.


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## boredbuyingstuff

mndless said:


> I've got a HiBy R3 Pro Sabre that I've been using when I want the best SQ, and even compared to running my IEMs off the usually spectacular "quad DAC" output from my LG V30, the difference is staggering. Much more detail in every frequency range, more powerful bass and less aggressive treble compared to the V30's output with the same cables. Everything is just tighter and more controlled. I do think everyone should have a DAP or DAC like that, even if it isn't your daily driver, if only for sanity checks. Plus, the R3 can be used as a USB transceiver that supports LDAC when connected to Windows, Mac, and Linux. It's not even crazy expensive to get the R3 Pro Sabre model for the slightly more analytical nature of the ESS DAC/amp combo chips.


I don't know if what I bought count as a real DAC as I got a Hidizs S9 Pro as I wanted something as mobile as possible and without any non-replaceable battery inside. I considered the Astell&Kern PEE51 but since it was only available through some shady Aliexpress stores I decided to get the Hidizs.


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> 😂 that’s exactly what I’m doing.
> Tried 10-20 cables, and went back to stock cable, the 10khz+ with stock cable is  more elevated, making it bit more resolving. But the overall tuning now I feel it L(U) shape with recessed 10khz+.  Compared to ZAX type it’s definitely darker same to ASX.
> KZ probably heard many voices of “KZ treble is too peaky” and darkened that part I guess.


KZ definitely has some scary FR graphs as the skeletons in it's closet, but it's still not quite as PTSD-inducing as some of the stuff TRN has out there. They really need to get in touch with the guy who tuned the original V90 and just make him a permanent employee.


----------



## eclein

+1 on going back to stock cable, and a major +1 for Hyby R3 Pro Saber. These little DAPS sound so good to me I rarely use any of my others since it arrived. Probably the best sounding DAP I’ve owned!


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## mndless

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I don't know if what I bought count as a real DAC as I got a Hidizs S9 Pro as I wanted something as mobile as possible and without any non-replaceable battery inside. I considered the Astell&Kern PEE51 but since it was only available through some shady Aliexpress stores I decided to get the Hidizs.


Definitely looks like a good option for a mini DAC. 200mW is a good output on balanced for the vast majority of Chi-fi until you start involving a bunch of parallel crossed over drivers or EST drivers. You may want even more power for those if they're pretty high impedance, but you should more than be able to tell the character of them on the DAC you got. Nice choice. I love the ESS chips, because they just sound so clean. There is a reason they're one of the standards to compare against.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> 😂 that’s exactly what I’m doing.
> Tried 10-20 cables, and went back to stock cable, the 10khz+ with stock cable is  more elevated, making it bit more resolving. But the overall tuning now I feel it L(U) shape with recessed 10khz+.  Compared to ZAX type it’s definitely darker same to ASX.
> KZ probably heard many voices of “KZ treble is too peaky” and darkened that part I guess.



The XINHS cable is be just beautiful but being stiffer and heavy some problems occur: (1) it really creates some pressure points on your ears; (2) whenever I tilt my head the cable move as a whole and lifts the earhooks and in doing so it is constantly acting as a lever pushing the IEM out of my ear and (3) it's nice to have a cable that is light as a feather, occupies less space and is more confortable on the ears.

I guess I'll stock some of those KZ Gold cables.


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## mndless

boredbuyingstuff said:


> As for cables, I started using XINHS 8 core copper & pure silver cable and then switched back to the stock cable which I've been since and honestly the sound is absolutely the same.
> 
> I have been using Spinfit CP360 L since the beginning and didn't even bother trying the stock ones.


My go-to cable for just about everything is the one that came with the Shuoer Tape Pro. The IEM may not have met expectations, but their cable sure is nice. I'll probably need to invest in a pure copper one for the Starseas to reinvigorate their bass response at some point, but I'm really more invested in trying to find IEMs that sound good when running off the FiiO LC-BT2, since convenience cannot be ignored when out-and-about, and a Bluetooth neckband with passable power output and a ridiculously long battery life is hard to ignore. It plays very nicely with the CCA CKX, but at high volumes I can hear where they've had to compromise on the noise floor by omitting more power-hungry DAC/amp chips like the ones from ESS. Maybe they'll make a more premium one sometime. It's definitely a product I'd buy.


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## boredbuyingstuff (Jun 21, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> 😂 that’s exactly what I’m doing.
> Tried 10-20 cables, and went back to stock cable, the 10khz+ with stock cable is  more elevated, making it bit more resolving. But the overall tuning now I feel it L(U) shape with recessed 10khz+.  Compared to ZAX type it’s definitely darker same to ASX.
> KZ probably heard many voices of “KZ treble is too peaky” and darkened that part I guess.
> At current state, there is a huge gap between my midrange multidriver benchmark Mangird Tea(Dark signature) and AST(bass boost and dark)
> ...


I believe that I noticed that difference between the AST and my ZSX exactly because of classical music. When I got the AST and listened to Vivaldi the music seemed less spacial as if all the sounds have merged together in some sense... I still believe the ZSX has more air but I also could perceive some sounds as if they were distorted and with the AST is like everything is more polished.

(1) 

(2) 

(3)


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> 😂 that’s exactly what I’m doing.
> Tried 10-20 cables, and went back to stock cable, the 10khz+ with stock cable is  more elevated, making it bit more resolving. But the overall tuning now I feel it L(U) shape with recessed 10khz+.  Compared to ZAX type it’s definitely darker same to ASX.
> KZ probably heard many voices of “KZ treble is too peaky” and darkened that part I guess.
> At current state, there is a huge gap between my midrange multidriver benchmark Mangird Tea(Dark signature) and AST(bass boost and dark)
> ...


In electronic music I believe the AST is amazing with this one:

(1) 

(2)


----------



## mndless

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I believe that I noticed that difference between the AST and my ZSX exactly because of classical music. When I got the AST and listened to Vivaldi the music seemed less spacial as if all the sounds have merged together in some sense... I still believe the ZSX has more air but I also could perceive some sounds as if they were distorted and with the AST is like everything is more polished.
> 
> (1)
> 
> ...



I love some symphonic orchestral music. I was doing some tip rolling on my CKX to test out the Sony gel eartips, which are a more bulbous, extended dome eartip made of an extra soft silicone. They're quite comfortable and seal well, but they detract from the bass gain, which wasn't what I'm looking for on the CKX. While they aren't bass light, they also aren't bass monsters, so dropping that gain by .75-1dB is noticeable. Went back to my Sony Triple Comforts and everything got that luxuriously rich bass back. If you do want to tame something with way too much bass and the stem of the nozzle is long enough to support using them, the Sony Gel eartips are certainly an interesting choice. They didn't seem to give any mid or treble gain, so you don't need to worry about them turning your otherwise tame IEM into an ice pick of treble, and the staging still sounded pretty good. It just lowered the bass. You can sometimes find them on eBay packaged with the Triple Comfort eartips in a multi-pack. Just make sure that the dome on the opaque eartips is extra thick and foamy, because some sellers are being instructed by their distributers to mislabel the Sony Hybrid eartips as foam eartips, when they are not.


----------



## Nimweth

Did you know that KZ AST also refers to Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan?


----------



## Podster

So came upon these in a box the other day and pretty sure my last post out here about them I thought they up and died like they had for so many others but low and behold I just for grins pulled them out the box and hooked them up to this old sim-less iPhone 6 and I can't believe after all these years they still work and function properly  LOL

These might take some of you guys back a couple years


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## saldsald

eclein said:


> Anybody else try Xelastic tips on CKX? They isolate much better and just make the CKX shine! I think the CKX is KZ’s best to date myself,
> anyone else feel that way?


It sounds amazing with the 24-core graphene cable thou I use spiral dot tips.


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## mndless

saldsald said:


> It sounds amazing with the 24-core graphene cable thou I use spiral dot tips.


I'm curious, how many more times expensive is that cable than the IEM? Presumably you didn't buy it to go with that one in particular, but it certainly is an amusing dichotomy.


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## saldsald (Jun 21, 2021)

mndless said:


> I'm curious, how many more times expensive is that cable than the IEM? Presumably you didn't buy it to go with that one in particular, but it certainly is an amusing dichotomy.


About the same price as the IEM. TBH it is always a blind purchase for me getting these cables and a hit-or-miss so I really have bought quite a few and about 70% are good ones and the rest just mediocre. I tried that cable with my other IEMs and it sounded quite bad to my ear with single DD and 1DD + 1BA setups.
I have posted my impressions here if you are interested:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ng-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/post-16417800
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ng-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/post-16286246
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ng-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/post-16318739
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ng-for-buck-cable-thread.891911/post-16338155


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## CT007 (Jun 22, 2021)

With more time on Starsea tonight, here's what I think so far...

*Starsea*("amazing bass" setting):
+ Really good, straight up studio sound, with bumping bass(as intended..?).
+ Resolution/transparency is very impressive, at this price or whatever. Far clearer & cleaner than AST.
+ Bass is generally good, but sometimes impresses me more.
- Revealing, balanced/level treble shows all the details, therefore can become _nearly _fatiguing. ("Standard tuning" and "balanced" settings add brightness/fatigue, so I don't like them)
- Imaging and sense of depth/space clearly inferior to AST.
Wow Factor = ~7/10

*AST*:
+ Sounds like a full-on tube amp; warm, dark, and smooth like honey.
+ Bass is *huge*.
+ Treble is noticeably duller than Starsea; darker, smoother; beautiful and non-fatiguing.
+ Sharp imaging & great space/depth help AST come alive.
- Bass is *huge*.
Wow Factor = ~10/10


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## AmericanSpirit (Jun 22, 2021)

10 hours of burn-in, wow!!!

I have to say not many BA shows this much of burn in response like AST, it definitely need some time to get treble units to kick in. It is probably their missile launcher “matrix “ 50024x6 treble compound unit’s nature. This launcher need some time to get hot for the first time use.





-AST is definitely a darker tuned, but it’s nicely done like Mangird Tea, 6khz is not offending so the “th” sound is not harsh at anytime.
-Bass boosted warm tuning, after all
-Reminds me of CCA CSN for mid range, upscaled
-KZ SKS(tws) has similar tuning (bass-boost with warm and dark tuning from 10khz+)
-AST works ok with ipad dongle too, but I found this IEM is power hungry, high gain mode on DAP is recommended

I will burn in 100 hours and now interested in full review. Current quick rough guess is 75-89/100, anywhere near B+~A+, best of KZ.
@15hours of burn-in
Bass: A
Mid: B+
Treble: A+ 
Air : A
Diffusion Field: B~A
Resolution: B~A
Positioning: B
Layering: A


----------



## AmericanSpirit

CT007 said:


> With more time on Starsea tonight, here's what I think so far...
> 
> *Starsea*("amazing bass" setting):
> + Really good, straight up studio sound, with bumping bass(as intended..?).
> ...


Starsea shines for laid back listening, it’s similar type of tuning with one of Best of the best IEM, qdc Anole VX. 
With standard mode and low gain mode, that’s what I found the real raison detre of Starsea.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> -AST works ok with ipad dongle too, but I found this IEM is power hungry, high gain mode on DAP is recommended



I bought a Hidizs S9 Pro which doesn't have a gain mode selector. Do you think this DAC I bought will be ok for the AST?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I bought a Hidizs S9 Pro which doesn't have a gain mode selector. Do you think this DAC I bought will be ok for the AST?


Yea even on ipad it sounded 80% good, DAP like one of Hidiz shouldn’t be a problem IMO. For $100 I think AST is worth it’s price. For $160 which I paid, It may be a better choice to go Mangird Tea $260 on sale now or Blessing2 Dusk $330 or blessing2 (270 on sale now)


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea even on ipad it sounded 80% good, DAP like one of Hidiz shouldn’t be a problem IMO. For $100 I think AST is worth it’s price. For $160 which I paid, It may be a better choice to go Mangird Tea $260 on sale now or Blessing2 Dusk $330 or blessing2 (270 on sale now)


I decided that if I go higher I'll go Moondrop Variations or some of those Thieaudio Monarch, Clair etc... But now I have to wait for the Variations reviews.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I decided that if I go higher I'll go Moondrop Variations or some of those Thieaudio Monarch, Clair etc... But now I have to wait for the Variations reviews.


Check moondrop thread👍
I ordered Variations on 4/18 10:01am the first order from Shenzhen Audio, they said they will ship out today with DHL express, so I may receive it this weekend. 
planning cross review of variations to B2/Dusk/RSV/SA6/Monarch/MEST MKII/VX and some upgrade candidates


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> Check moondrop thread👍
> I ordered Variations on 4/18 10:01am the first order from Shenzhen Audio, they said they will ship out today with DHL express, so I may receive it this weekend.
> planning cross review of variations to B2/Dusk/RSV/SA6/Monarch/MEST MKII/VX and some upgrade candidates


I'll check that out, can't wait. I hope they ship my s9 tomorrow but that will take at least 2 weeks to be delivered here.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> 10 hours of burn-in, wow!!!
> 
> I have to say not many BA shows this much of burn in response like AST, it definitely need some time to get treble units to kick in. It is probably their missile launcher “matrix “ 50024x6 treble compound unit’s nature. This launcher need some time to get hot for the first time use.
> 
> ...


How about the treble? Is the AST considerably darker?


----------



## forestitalia

Got my AST, I give at least 24hrs burn in, because now are like a dark cave.


----------



## MacAttack7

forestitalia said:


> Got my AST, I give at least 24hrs burn in, because now are like a dark cave.


The AST, ASX, ASF are supposed to be dark.
The engineers designed them to be dark on purpose.
Burn in won't make it a bright earphone all of a sudden.
Do you not like the dark sound signature?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> How about the treble? Is the AST considerably darker?


depends on the frequency range that your treble: for 10khz+ yes AST is similar to ASX, pretty much calm. 3-10khz, ASX got some peaks which may be offending to some, which AST has more flat tuning, It's pretty smooth tuning, I'm liking AST now. I was thinking to return the $160 stock and repurchase from the AE sale one $97 now, but now I think I'm keeping this $160 stock, just in case the $97 got bad unit variance.

I'm going to plan a full coverage as this AST might deserve to compete with higher-ups.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> The AST, ASX, ASF are supposed to be dark.
> The engineers designed them to be dark on purpose.
> Burn in won't make it a bright earphone all of a sudden.
> Do you not like the dark sound signature?


AST changed drastically through burn-in (just a bare 12hour session) compared to ASX, it did make AST a brighter one all of sudden though.
Now I feel it's a tad darker than ZAX, brighter than CCA CSN.


----------



## MacAttack7

AmericanSpirit said:


> depends on the frequency range that your treble: for 10khz+ yes AST is similar to ASX, pretty much calm. 3-10khz, ASX got some peaks which may be offending to some, which AST has more flat tuning, It's pretty smooth tuning, I'm liking AST now. I was thinking to return the $160 stock and repurchase from the AE sale one $97 now, but now I think I'm keeping this $160 stock, just in case the $97 got bad unit variance.
> 
> I'm going to plan a full coverage as this AST might deserve to compete with higher-ups.


Why would you think the AE unit would have bad variance? 
They sell tons of earphones, so I don't think very many have issues or their reputation would be ruined by now.
You can get one now for $91 if a coupon pops up for you. $160 is way too much!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> Why would you think the AE unit would have bad variance?
> They sell tons of earphones, so I don't think very many have issues or their reputation would be ruined by now.
> You can get one now for $91 if a coupon pops up for you. $160 is way too much!


That 40% discount sounds tempting! But AE returns are way time consuming

I'll see how a fully burned-in AST would perform then decide to replace it with a sale unit.


----------



## forestitalia

MacAttack7 said:


> The AST, ASX, ASF are supposed to be dark.
> The engineers designed them to be dark on purpose.
> Burn in won't make it a bright earphone all of a sudden.
> Do you not like the dark sound signature?


Not too dark, of course is better than the piercing treble of some KZ's.
Anyway, after few hours changed a little bit, I wait til tomorrow then see.


----------



## Podster (Jun 22, 2021)

CT007 said:


> With more time on Starsea tonight, here's what I think so far...
> 
> *Starsea*("amazing bass" setting):
> + Really good, straight up studio sound, with bumping bass(as intended..?).
> ...



Both are lovely, now let me say I have a ton of KZ's as well as many other Chi-Fi iem's and what you refer to here as dark many perceive as poor tuning with inferior drivers (I'm not one of those but wanted to put that out here). The warm sounding KZ's are like a 180 turn from where KZ started with ear piercing highs for many so of course they finally came around to what many asked for way back when! Indeed Toobs are warm and sweet to the ear but for me to really reach tube sound it's in how well the music decay's. With that said this little inexpensive amp creates more tube like decay than anything I've ever owned and strange enough at any price. For me all the Walnut products I've owned have so much ambience which adds noise but has that real analog sound. Of course only the Pods take but I stand by it until something else trumps them  Depending on filter selection one would be hard pressed to find a more analog/tube sounding amp than the Walnut F1






I was so surprised when it had better tube sound and decay than this actual tube amp





And to not stray too far off the thread model this all BA iem right here is still the best all BA iem I've ever heard and a dang steal at $76, I have 6, 8 and 12 BA iem's that can't hang with these for just any genre! I've heard many a CA but alas to my old ears they were no better and if you factor in price the extra cost of the CA is wasted 




And you know what they say about opinions right


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

CT007 said:


> With more time on Starsea tonight, here's what I think so far...
> 
> *Starsea*("amazing bass" setting):
> + Really good, straight up studio sound, with bumping bass(as intended..?).
> ...


So what you're saying is you prefer the AST?


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> are lovely, now let me say I have a ton of KZ's as well as many other Chi-Fi iem's and what you refer to here as dark many perceive as poor tuning with inferior drivers (I'm not one of those but wanted to put that out here). The warm sounding KZ's are like a 180 turn from where KZ started with ear piercing highs for many so of course they finally came around to what many asked for way back when! Indeed Toobs are warm and sweet to the ear but for me to really reach tube sound it's in how well the music decay's. With that said this little inexpensive amp creates more tube like decay than anything I've ever owned and strange enough at any price. For me all the Walnut products I've owned have so much ambience which adds noise but has that real analog sound. Of course only the Pods take but I stand by it until something else trumps them  Depending on filter selection one would be hard pressed to find a more analog/tube sounding amp than the Walnut F1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, BA10 is hard to beat. It's the best of the 8 all BA IEMs I have.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 22, 2021)

Capo Dei Capi said:


> So what you're saying is you prefer the AST?


AST impresses me more, but Starsea is definitely the more accurate, realistic one. I haven't burned in Starsea at all, but I prefer SLIGHTLY less treble brightness than it has, as a minor complaint. The huge bass of AST is a bigger offense, but that doesn't hurt your ears as much as treble can. Plus the great imaging & space make AST my choice of the 2. I've heard a sound like Starsea before(L4, S8Z, maybe 03 or Fan), but never quite like AST. I don't believe in burn-in of BA's, so I'm not expecting any change. ZAX sounds just as bright as day 1.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

CT007 said:


> AST impresses me more, but Starsea is definitely the more accurate, realistic one. I haven't burned in Starsea at all, but I prefer SLIGHTLY less treble brightness than it has, as a minor complaint. The huge bass of AST is a bigger offense, but that doesn't hurt your ears as much as treble can. Plus the great imaging & space make AST my choice of the 2. I've heard a sound like Starsea before(L4, S8Z, maybe 03 or Fan), but never quite like AST. I don't believe in burn-in of BA's, so I'm not expecting any change. ZAX sounds just as bright as day 1.


I can get the ZAX at a good price. Is there much difference between the AST and the ZAX?


----------



## CT007

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I can get the ZAX at a good price. Is there much difference between the AST and the ZAX?


ZAX is much better balanced, but has the negative of treble being peaky here & there. If you don't want overkill bass, ZAX is my pick. I feel AST has improved and "upgraded" treble over ZAX, so it's a clear cut above to me, if you are also after ridiculous bass. I have no real issue with ZAX bass, and really enjoy it.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 22, 2021)

CT007 said:


> ZAX is much better balanced, but has the negative of treble being peaky here & there. If you don't want overkill bass, ZAX is my pick. I feel AST has improved and "upgraded" treble over ZAX, so it's a clear cut above to me, if you are also after ridiculous bass. I have no real issue with ZAX bass, and really enjoy it.


Describes my impression of AST vs ZAX too. AST with somehow “hmmm tons of bassss!” is still technically superior, and treble is better tuned than ZAX. Mid I find no big difference. ZAX at sales is $50, AST almost twice of that,  so it’s ZAX(B to B+ grade) vs AST (B+ to A grade) choice, if price to value, ZAX. Better made IEM, AST.

Right before AST arrival my whole interest was on Moondrop’s new killer IEM blessing2-EST with LCP bass, but since Shenzhen audio screwed up with back order and shipping, my interest is on well made AST now.

KZ really started to hit my spot starting from SKS then this AST (they both share same tuning).

Now KZ-EST is something I’m waiting with high expectations as my long followed Dongguan IEM company.

My guess is initial offering for KZ-EST: KZ-brand EST x2 + that matrix treble tweeter (50024s x6) + quad mid BA + Dual-XUN bass(if works, if not single XUN )

2EST+10BA+2DD , 14drivers. For $199, then later reduced to $139🙏


----------



## sutosuto

AmericanSpirit said:


> 2EST+10BA+2DD , 14drivers. For $199, then later reduced to $139


It will be gigantic then I guess😱


----------



## CT007 (Jun 22, 2021)

No thanks to EST. Haven't heard one I liked yet(in an IEM, that is). =p But those BA's..?


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> Describes my impression of AST vs ZAX too. AST with somehow “hmmm tons of bassss!” is still technically superior, and treble is better tuned than ZAX. Mid I find no big difference. ZAX at sales is $50, AST almost twice of that,  so it’s ZAX(B to B+ grade) vs AST (B+ to A grade) choice, if price to value, ZAX. Better made IEM, AST.
> 
> Right before AST arrival my whole interest was on Moondrop’s new killer IEM blessing2-EST with LCP bass, but since Shenzhen audio screwed up with back order and shipping, my interest is on well made AST now.
> 
> ...


That would be interesting, but I suspect you'd end up with too much treble if they used 6 of the 50024s BA drivers on top of a pair of EST drivers. I suspect a more conservative driver config would be their first attempt, so probably only a pair of BAs for lower treble, mids, and mid-bass each, then add in the DD. Given the prevalence of the dual-BA coupled drivers, this would make for one of the more cost-effective options that give them adequate gain to match the EST drivers and DD. Still would be a ridiculous configuration for any other manufacturer to consider tackling, but KZ has a history of doing weird things with their IEMs to the acclaim of the masses.


----------



## mndless

CT007 said:


> No thanks to EST. Haven't heard one I liked yet(in an IEM, that is). =p But those BA's..?


Have you heard the Kinera NanNa 2.0? I found them to be ridiculously pleasant to listen to when my friend let me demo his.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> AST changed drastically through burn-in (just a bare 12hour session) compared to ASX, it did make AST a brighter one all of sudden though.
> Now I feel it's a tad darker than ZAX, brighter than CCA CSN.


Interesting, it is hard to believe from the FR that it is brighter than the CSN. Oh man, I may just get a pair too......


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 23, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I had that impression too when I first got it. Overwhelming bass!! But I think either I am getting used to it or the burn in is real, I don't feel the bass overwhelming anymore. I kinda like it that I can hear the bass guitar clearly with the AST.


Agree with your comment
-25hours of burn-in, this is third session I put AST on, for well over 4 hours

-compared to benchmark fully burned-in qdc Anole VX and my reference IEM for monitoring: Softears RSV. So that it’s not my brain-burn in as I have clearly comparable scale next to AST

-Treble is the speciality of AST; great sensation of warm and calm tuning with astonishing detail retrieval that can well expected from properly tuned multi-BA, the open vent 6 packs of missile launcher-ish tweeter unit indeed is some interesting gimmick that KZ came up with, this is why I’m sticking with KZ even with series of “painful 🤮 spiked extreme house V-tuning” experiences. Some R&D taking place and it works!





-Mid, upper-mid is OK, I could use a bit lifted 3khz pinna gain area, but I was able to find my comfortable tuning with SpinFit Cp100+(known as vocal booster) & DAP’s low-pass filter in Short delay Sharp Roll-off mode(which I don’t usually use) to have piano&vocals show clarity ( I have a feeling mid range BA might have intentionally set to negative polarity in order to reproduce darkness, so by tilting the phase delays, it somehow matched back the off-tuning )

-Bass is another “wow” factor of AST, well controlled, good texture, the weakness of BA bass (plain and lacks impact) seemed blurred by simply amp it to taunami class massive quantity —which works 😂

-Thanks to multi BA, the elevated bass does not totally overshadow mid/treble, as the other range also has some presence

-I’m now more confident to refer AST is power hungry IEM, (similary to ASX, but much more power-thirsty than ASX); this could divide impressions to day and night,

With less powered source:
one may say “ahh it sound muddy, everything is off focus, with one note bass “boom”

With high powered source:
one may say “it’s the one of the best sub $300, specialized in resolution/ brain shaking bass / hard to attain multi-layering capability which only kilo buck 8+BA IEMs could offer.

I think AST is well worth $100 tag, and compared to $129 monster TRI Starsea(it hits A- in my list), AST still can justify its raison detre by layering / separation and impactful bass.

compared to $169 widely proclaimed best-value-to-money See Audio Yume(I could only rate Yume to C+, A+ for tuning but technically C-), AST is well above Yume in terms technicality, tuning is personal flavor so I’d leave it.  AST still can justify @ $169

compared to $299 Mangird Tea / $319 Moondrop Blessing2/ $330 Moondrop Blessing2 Dusk: I can still justify AST for multi-layering for music with complex composition, but overall I found Tea/ Blessing2/ Dusk a little better made, like  10% better if pulling out a number.

compared to DUNU Studio SA6 $549 : SA6 is better tuned and balanced, as one of the sub$1000 benchmarks to beat, AST is still not there, not depressingly far, 15% more to hit. It comes to coherence / positioning/ transient that could set AST behind SA6.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

sutosuto said:


> It will be gigantic then I guess😱


 hopefully not🥺  but yea maybe ASX class… i still see some rooms for AST though


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> Interesting, it is hard to believe from the FR that it is brighter than the CSN. Oh man, I may just get a pair too......


It’s a good investment👍 I can say AST is not embarrassed by claiming itself a 12BA IEM.


----------



## voicemaster

AmericanSpirit said:


> Agree with your comment
> -25hours of burn-in, this is third session I put AST on, for well over 4 hours
> 
> -compared to benchmark fully burned-in qdc Anole VX and my reference IEM for monitoring: Softears RSV. So that it’s not my brain-burn in as I have clearly comparable scale next to AST
> ...


I agree with AST is really power hungry IEM. I have paired it with TRN BT20S pro and the sound is good but it is not as open as using my P1. The bass is the best imho in this AST. It has speed as it is BA driver and also the impact, airiness and decay of DD driver's kind of bass.


----------



## voicemaster

AmericanSpirit said:


> It’s a good investment👍 I can say AST is not embarrassed by claiming itself a 12BA IEM.


Finally KZ got it right with their double digits drivers IEM. While I do like the ASX, but so many people hated it and found it sound bad. 15 drivers per side next?


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> I agree with AST is really power hungry IEM. I have paired it with TRN BT20S pro and the sound is good but it is not as open as using my P1. The bass is the best imho in this AST. It has speed as it is BA driver and also the impact, airiness and decay of DD driver's kind of bass.


If the volume is loud enough, and the impedance of your player is low enough, why would you need any additional power?
I have an iPod Touch which has a 1.74 output impedance. From what I've read it should have no issue at all with the ASX or AST.
Is that not correct?


----------



## voicemaster

The bass in this song is very tight and airy on the AST. 

Got this song from this forum and the bass will shake your eardrums.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> If the volume is loud enough, and the impedance of your player is low enough, why would you need any additional power?
> I have an iPod Touch which has a 1.74 output impedance. From what I've read it should have no issue at all with the ASX or AST.
> Is that not correct?


It maybe loud but it sound constrained at times. I haven't tried using my phone as source, I was using bluetooth adapter on my PC. It plays just fine on my old DX50.


----------



## mndless (Jun 23, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Agree with your comment
> -25hours of burn-in, this is third session I put AST on, for well over 4 hours
> 
> -compared to benchmark fully burned-in qdc Anole VX and my reference IEM for monitoring: Softears RSV. So that it’s not my brain-burn in as I have clearly comparable scale next to AST
> ...


I would absolutely LOVE for CCA to pull some of the 3D sound tube printing tech and these retuned KZ and Bellsing drivers to a refresh of the CKX. I adore how compact these things are, and their performance is already pretty great. Enough that they only needed some tip rolling and a modest amount of EQ for them to surpass my TRI Starseas by my reckoning. Their mid and treble tonality isn't as superb for vocals and acoustic instrumentals, but the bass impact and layering that you get from three times the number of BA drivers is impossible for the Starseas to overcome, even with the same efforts spent rolling tips and EQ-ing them. I think if they managed to redesign the CKX to more effectively use the space available so they could pull back the BAs from the nozzle into the body of the shell, they may become one of the best sub-$100 IEMs to buy (Though I already rec them anyway, because they're so damn comfy.) I'd also like to see them try to copy what Sony did with their custom BA drivers with their top-ported single-BA drivers and super-tweeter BA drivers. Apparently they offer spectacular performance, but I've not had the luxury of listening to any of the IEMs equipped with them. Just from a personal preference standpoint, I'd also like to see them make the nozzle a tiny bit slimmer and about 1.5-2mm longer.


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> It’s a good investment👍 I can say AST is not embarrassed by claiming itself a 12BA IEM.


I'm waiting to hear TheVortex's review of his recently received GS Audio GT12, as they're pretty much the only other somewhat reasonably priced 12BA IEM. They certainly aren't as affordable as the AST, but for IEMs using Sonion and Knowles branded drivers, they're quite "affordable". His quick and dirty assessment was that they reminded him of a better balanced Audiosense T800. I'm curious what his thoughts will be once he's had more of a chance to listen to them and maybe burn them in. I don't think Sonion and Knowles BA drivers are expected to change their performance all that much after burn-in, but it'll be good to see what his set does.


----------



## cappuchino (Jun 23, 2021)

Got some news from a KZ rep:

The KZ SK10 will be releasing next week. 1 BA + 1 DD hybrid configuration. Could this be the CSN in TWS form? Also is still AAC limited and might actually be using the same chip as the AZ09. Pricing would be about 40 USD, give or take.

*EDIT: NVM. It doesn't use the same BA as the CSN. Might be an "updated" SKS?*

I'll be able to share my impressions a week after it releases (review unit) 😁




 








Oh, another update for those interested in their wired IEMs - I was told that KZ is currently focusing on Bluetooth transducers. So the electrostatic (if it will push through) might not be seen in the near future 😔


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> It maybe loud but it sound constrained at times. I haven't tried using my phone as source, I was using bluetooth adapter on my PC. It plays just fine on my old DX50.


If you want a rec for a somewhat reasonably priced DAP that you can use, check out the Hiby R3 Pro Saber. I absolutely love mine, and you can set the balanced output to low or high gain mode if you need more oomph behind the signal. I've found that just about any IEM I've enjoyed on my FiiO LC-BT2 sounds leagues better on the HiBy R3 Pro Saber. For around $200, it's a pretty sound investment, as it'll happily drive the vast majority of IEMs with a decent amount of headroom, but it also offers flexibility in how you can use it. You can use it as a DAP, a DAC, a USB Bluetooth transceiver for PC or Mac, or as a bluetooth transceiver for a wired headphone connection. And it'll support LDAC for all of those bluetooth modes, which is nice if you, like me, enjoy the luxury of owning a bluetooth IEM neckband adapter which supports LDAC. There are better options, but you certainly wouldn't be disappointed with it. If you just want a cheaper, but very high spec USB C wired DAC+amp, check out the Hidizs S9 Pro. It's currently around $110, and it'll do quite well for everything short of extremely high impedance, low sensitivity headphones.


----------



## voicemaster

mndless said:


> If you want a rec for a somewhat reasonably priced DAP that you can use, check out the Hiby R3 Pro Saber. I absolutely love mine, and you can set the balanced output to low or high gain mode if you need more oomph behind the signal. I've found that just about any IEM I've enjoyed on my FiiO LC-BT2 sounds leagues better on the HiBy R3 Pro Saber. For around $200, it's a pretty sound investment, as it'll happily drive the vast majority of IEMs with a decent amount of headroom, but it also offers flexibility in how you can use it. You can use it as a DAP, a DAC, a USB Bluetooth transceiver for PC or Mac, or as a bluetooth transceiver for a wired headphone connection. And it'll support LDAC for all of those bluetooth modes, which is nice if you, like me, enjoy the luxury of owning a bluetooth IEM neckband adapter which supports LDAC. There are better options, but you certainly wouldn't be disappointed with it. If you just want a cheaper, but very high spec USB C wired DAC+amp, check out the Hidizs S9 Pro. It's currently around $110, and it'll do quite well for everything short of extremely high impedance, low sensitivity headphones.


I rarely use DAP. I usually just use my S21Ultra + galaxy buds live/pro for portable use.


----------



## voicemaster

Would be interesting to compare KZ most expensive IEM aka the AST to Moondrop Variations which will be here next week according to DHL.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

cappuchino said:


> Got some news from a KZ rep:
> 
> The KZ SK10 will be releasing next week. 1 BA + 1 DD hybrid configuration. Could this be the CSN in TWS form? Also is still AAC limited and might actually be using the same chip as the AZ09. Pricing would be about 40 USD, give or take.
> 
> ...


Sad😮‍💨😮‍💨 but as a business decision that’s rational… bluetooth TWS has huge chunk of market that KZ could establish some strings of revenue string, vs very sizable few(maybe less than 1,000) challenging EST model😭 

Hope KZ realize that niche market is what manufacturers are showing their branding presence, like Nissan NISMO-GTR, Lexus LFA while they have mass market models as to source main revenue. 
Top models to establish branding, and mass market model to establish profit generation.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

voicemaster said:


> Would be interesting to compare KZ most expensive IEM aka the AST to Moondrop Variations which will be here next week according to DHL.


If moondrop failed to tune Sonion EST, and treble becomes pitch dark, there maybe a chance😨 Mine will arrive on Monday(sigh)


----------



## voicemaster

AmericanSpirit said:


> If moondrop failed to tune Sonion EST, and treble becomes pitch dark, there maybe a chance😨 Mine will arrive on Monday(sigh)


Isn't the FR of Variations kinda similar to AST? AST has a rolled off on the upper treble, but I hear those treble just fine.


----------



## G777

voicemaster said:


> Isn't the FR of Variations kinda similar to AST? AST has a rolled off on the upper treble, but I hear those treble just fine.


Looks like it's more similar to the Etymotic ER4, which is a more relaxed treble but should not be dark.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> If moondrop failed to tune Sonion EST, and treble becomes pitch dark, there maybe a chance😨 Mine will arrive on Monday(sigh)


It is not dark at all . So far I think the lower treble has the highest resolution amongst all the frequencies, has some magic on male vocal. I swapped cable to lower the bass and everything is much more under control now.


----------



## saldsald

cappuchino said:


> Got some news from a KZ rep:
> 
> The KZ SK10 will be releasing next week. 1 BA + 1 DD hybrid configuration. Could this be the CSN in TWS form? Also is still AAC limited and might actually be using the same chip as the AZ09. Pricing would be about 40 USD, give or take.
> 
> ...


Looks more like another SKS to me, the driver is not XUN so can't be the CSN.


----------



## forestitalia

To me has been an 'How' factor


----------



## forestitalia

No much changes after 24 hrs burn in, are too dark for me. Drums the odder, can't hear the cymbals. 
Don't understand this kind of sound 'signature', no high frequencies.
Maybe this copy is not functional, I'm afraid have to send it back.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff (Jun 23, 2021)

forestitalia said:


> No much changes after 24 hrs burn in, are too dark for me. Drums the odder, can't hear the cymbals.
> Don't understand this kind of sound 'signature', no high frequencies.
> Maybe this copy is not functional, I'm afraid have to send it back.


Can you hear them here?


I agree that if you listen to Nirvana, for example, it seems way behind - at least for me -, but it is still there.


But the higher the quality of the source, the better it sounds. The same track from Nirvana at the same volume level on the same source sounds way better if I go from Youtube to Spotify highest-res setting.


Just as a side note, I have a ZSX and if I play these on them it sounds like a distorted blob but on the AST it sounds fine...


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Can you hear them here?
> 
> 
> I agree that if you listen to Nirvana, for example, it seems way behind - at least for me -, but it is still there.
> ...



The difference is that the AST put the cymbals sound kinda in the back not forward like ZAX or any other IEMs. It is the same thing with the ASX and ASF. At first, this will sound like you can't hear the cymbals or it is buried in the mix, but as you get used to it, you can hear them just fine.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

forestitalia said:


> No much changes after 24 hrs burn in, are too dark for me. Drums the odder, can't hear the cymbals.
> Don't understand this kind of sound 'signature', no high frequencies.
> Maybe this copy is not functional, I'm afraid have to send it back.


What player are you using? The comments you mentioned is what I hear from low powered source, If you have a source with 800+mW output, AST will be a keeper.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 23, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> The difference is that the AST put the cymbals sound kinda in the back not forward like ZAX or any other IEMs. It is the same thing with the ASX and ASF. At first, this will sound like you can't hear the cymbals or it is buried in the mix, but as you get used to it, you can hear them just fine.


Yea i think Treble unit is also hooked with negative polarity, looking for some braver to disassemble then solder the plarity reversed😲 I’m getting too old and my hand may not be capable of those precision works anymore🥺

Do note painful “KZ” spike might appear as a result😅


----------



## RikudouGoku

AmericanSpirit said:


> What player are you using? The comments you mentioned is what I hear from low powered source, If you have a source with 800+mW output, AST will be a keeper.


its a BA iem....they certainly dont need that much power. Its more important to check the output impedance, as that is likely to affect the FR depending on how high/low it is.


----------



## nicksson

AmericanSpirit said:


> What player are you using? The comments you mentioned is what I hear from low powered source, If you have a source with *800+mW* output, AST will be a keeper.


800+mW?! Are you talking about a welding machine?


----------



## mndless

RikudouGoku said:


> its a BA iem....they certainly dont need that much power. Its more important to check the output impedance, as that is likely to affect the FR depending on how high/low it is.


I was thinking the same. It's a 30ohm set, if I remember correctly, and fairly sensitive. While I'm sure it would work even better with some serious current, it should function just fine on far less than that. I've heard some things about the missile launcher BA array sometimes needing significant burn-in to work properly (another thing which really doesn't sit right with me, since BA drivers should at least be quite audible straight from manufacturing unless they've been damaged). KZ has made real strides in trying to improve their QC, but I wonder if these kinds of situations will become more commonplace when they're changing so much of their driver tuning and porting in one go.


----------



## RikudouGoku

mndless said:


> I was thinking the same. It's a 30ohm set, if I remember correctly, and fairly sensitive. While I'm sure it would work even better with some serious current, it should function just fine on far less than that. I've heard some things about the missile launcher BA array sometimes needing significant burn-in to work properly (another thing which really doesn't sit right with me, since BA drivers should at least be quite audible straight from manufacturing unless they've been damaged). KZ has made real strides in trying to improve their QC, but I wonder if these kinds of situations will become more commonplace when they're changing so much of their driver tuning and porting in one go.


BA iems dont really benefit from more power like DDs do. They do however, benefit from higher quality power (lower OI, less risk for hiss as well). 
(of course, if KZ tuned them with a source (and cable) with high OI, a lower OI source might be worse lol.)


----------



## artatgray

Nimweth said:


> Here you are:





forestitalia said:


> Don't understand this kind of sound 'signature', no high frequencies.



It sounds like the treble is rolling off too early. (I'm not even going to consider purchasing the AST until I see proper measurements of it.) Both the ASF and ASX are like that as well.

Fortunately the ASX responses very well to EQ and sounds fantastic when tuned to Harman.

Seriously! It's a toss up between them and the ZAX when both are EQed to Harman. The ZAX might sound like the slightly brighter of the two under those circumstances, but not by much. I suspect I might have a hard time telling apart based upon frequency response alone then.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

nicksson said:


> 800+mW?! Are you talking about a welding machine?


Oops😂 80mW


----------



## RikudouGoku

artatgray said:


> It sounds like the treble is rolling off too early. (I'm not even going to consider purchasing the AST until I see proper measurements of it.) Both the ASF and ASX are like that as well.
> 
> Fortunately the ASX responses very well to EQ and sounds fantastic when tuned to Harman.
> 
> Seriously! It's a toss up between them and the ZAX when both are EQed to Harman. The ZAX might sound like the slightly brighter of the two under those circumstances, but not by much. I suspect I might have a hard time telling apart based upon frequency response alone then.


----------



## artatgray (Jun 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


>


That doesn't tell me much really, other than I was right. It would be more useful if I could see the measurements in relation to the Harman IE target.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> its a BA iem....they certainly dont need that much power. Its more important to check the output impedance, as that is likely to affect the FR depending on how high/low it is.


Ah ok it’s the output impedance then, AST sounds out of focus with low gain and sounds fantastic with high gain. The output impedance might have changed FR as you mentioned.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

artatgray said:


> That doesn't tell me really, other than I was right. It would be more useful if I could see the measurements in relation to the Harman IE target.


They both have a bit off harman curve, W Shape tuning with rolled off treble I think it may be suitable to phrase


----------



## RikudouGoku

artatgray said:


> That doesn't tell me really, other than I was right. It would be more useful if I could see the measurements in relation to the Harman IE target.






(BGGAR doesnt have the harman target in his graph db.)



AmericanSpirit said:


> Ah ok it’s the output impedance then, AST sounds out of focus with low gain and sounds fantastic with high gain. The output impedance might have changed FR as you mentioned.


Dont think low-gain vs high-gain will have an effect on the OI though....


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> (BGGAR doesnt have the harman target in his graph db.)
> 
> 
> Dont think low-gain vs high-gain will have an effect on the OI though....


Technically maybe, but I trust my ear, otherwise I wouldn’t spent so much time&money for this hobby🤔


----------



## artatgray

RikudouGoku said:


> (BGGAR doesnt have the harman target in his graph db.)
> 
> 
> Dont think low-gain vs high-gain will have an effect on the OI though....


Something about that doesn't look right. I'll be right back... 🤔


----------



## artatgray

artatgray said:


> Something about that doesn't look right. I'll be right back... 🤔


Yeah, I don't think he's using industry standard equipment for the measurements.

From In Ear Fidelity:


----------



## RikudouGoku

artatgray said:


> Yeah, I don't think he's using industry standard equipment for the measurements.
> 
> From In Ear Fidelity:


He is using the IEC711, which is standard that I also have. 

But even then, it isnt 100% certain that our graphs will look the same.

Check this post by dunu for more info: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dun...ostatic-tweeters.956907/page-18#post-16407904


----------



## artatgray

artatgray said:


> Yeah, I don't think he's using industry standard equipment for the measurements.
> 
> From In Ear Fidelity:



Here's the ASX for comparison:


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

mndless said:


> I've heard some things about the missile launcher BA array sometimes needing significant burn-in to work properly (another thing which really doesn't sit right with me, since BA drivers should at least be quite audible straight from manufacturing unless they've been damaged).


Check this out. After 8 days of burn in the FiiO FH5s measured differently and in the frequencies associated with the balanced armatures.


----------



## artatgray

RikudouGoku said:


> He is using the IEC711, which is standard that I also have.
> 
> But even then, it isnt 100% certain that our graphs will look the same.
> 
> Check this post by dunu for more info: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dun...ostatic-tweeters.956907/page-18#post-16407904



I understand that fit can have a rather major influence on the measurements.


----------



## RikudouGoku

artatgray said:


> I understand that fit can have a rather major influence on the measurements.


The angle, depth and postition have major impact on them yes. But different measuring setups could also affect it, like if you are using a dongle or soundcard for the IEC711 and what output source you are using for the iem.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Check this out. After 8 days of burn in the FiiO FH5s measured differently and in the frequencies associated with the balanced armatures.



quite a difference!  If every other setup remained the same, I think that difference in FR is pretty audible. I'm interested to see how other measurements could change, like attack/decay.


----------



## mndless

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Check this out. After 8 days of burn in the FiiO FH5s measured differently and in the frequencies associated with the balanced armatures.



It is good to note when there is a measurable change in FR following burn-in. It just really isn't particularly significant in this example. And it certainly isn't the difference between whether something sounds like it is working or not. I've seen some burn-in charts for DD earphones where the entire shape of the sound signature can change following burn-in, whereas you usually see more minor changes, if any, in BA sets. Of course, the membrane size and material as well as how the actuator is suspended and articulated, even what damping material they're using on the actuator to prevent contact with the coils or magnets can impact how much, if any, a change youll find from burning in your BA sets. It's why it can always be useful to do initial thoughts on tuning and then do at least a brief burn-in before doing the full-depth review of a set.

PS: dynamic drivers that actually feature a rubber, silicone, fabric, or foam surround like a full-sized speaker woofer can have very significant changes in performance after burning in, as the mechanical spring forces of the surround and spider are magnitudes greater than what you'll find in tiny little earphone DDs. If you see anything marketed for featuring a "long-throw" or "high excursion" driver in am earphone, you should make sure to burn it in before making your final notes about it, since the FR can change pretty dramatically.


----------



## voicemaster

Still can hear the cymbals just fine tho it isn't as forward like the ZAX (I am using ZAX just for comparison). If you are looking for treble that "bite" you then the AST will disappoint you.


----------



## alamnp

AmericanSpirit said:


> Ah ok it’s the output impedance then, AST sounds out of focus with low gain and sounds fantastic with high gain. The output impedance might have changed FR as you mentioned.


any impression from you yet?
How does it stand compared to mid tier?
Can it compete with Moondrop Blessing 2, LZ A7, Believe alike?


----------



## eclein

Loving my AST after using it for 6 days consecutively now, its especially good with R3 Pro Saber but my Plenue R and AST also sound great together. KZ got this one correct all 12 ways I think, its a bargain compared to just about anybody else’s 12 a side units and I’d be surprised if the AST wasn’t seriously close to sounding like totl pricewise iems.
If your new to the hobby and have budgetary concerns buy a set of  KZ-AST’s and a Hyby R3 Pro Saber and for around $350 you’ll hear your music done up wonderfully! It is an amazing time for portable audio!


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 23, 2021)

alamnp said:


> any impression from you yet?
> How does it stand compared to mid tier?
> Can it compete with Moondrop Blessing 2, LZ A7, Believe alike?


It’s in old posts: latest one is 25 hours mark post:
Post in thread 'Knowledge Zenith (KZ) impressions thread'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16421153

My current assessment is B+ to A. B2 is A+, Believe is A.


----------



## mndless

eclein said:


> Loving my AST after using it for 6 days consecutively now, its especially good with R3 Pro Saber but my Plenue R and AST also sound great together. KZ got this one correct all 12 ways I think, its a bargain compared to just about anybody else’s 12 a side units and I’d be surprised if the AST wasn’t seriously close to sounding like totl pricewise iems.
> If your new to the hobby and have budgetary concerns buy a set of  KZ-AST’s and a Hyby R3 Pro Saber and for around $350 you’ll hear your music done up wonderfully! It is an amazing time for portable audio!


+1 for the HiBy R3 Pro Saber rec. Those things are great. I love the flexibility they offer and the signal is so clean and not too heavily colored like so many DAPs. It may not be the best, due to the limitations of a closed-source OS with essentially no apps to use for streaming besides Tidal, but it's still a good option for the budget-conscious buyer. The R5 Saber is the next logical step up, but at a nearly $150 premium to get Android OS on it, the only justification I can find is if you legitimately need over 1W output per channel at 16ohms on balanced high gain mode. Having said that, I should be able to give impressions on it in a few weeks, as I ordered one for a friend for his b-day so he can find out exactly how much power the Kinera NanNa 2.0 can take before he can't tolerate the volume anymore. Should be nice to see how it compares to when I listened to them on my R3 Pro Saber.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff (Jun 23, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> ...The Aria and AST share a kinda similar sound signature imho. The Aria is quieter compared to the AST. The Aria is overall smoother without any noticeable harshness whereas the AST has those peak on the treble that can annoy some people, but so far no sibilance. The bass is where the Aria differ from the AST. The mid bass is more elevated on the AST.



Any updated views on how the KZ AST compares with Moondrop Aria after the burn-in process?


----------



## saldsald (Jun 23, 2021)

forestitalia said:


> No much changes after 24 hrs burn in, are too dark for me. Drums the odder, can't hear the cymbals.
> Don't understand this kind of sound 'signature', no high frequencies.
> Maybe this copy is not functional, I'm afraid have to send it back.


It is probably the AST fits your ears too well and there is too much seal. I had the same problem with the ASX and had to use smaller tips. Try half a size or one size smaller tips with it.


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> It is probably the AST fits your ears too well and there is too much seal. I had the same problem with the ASX and had to use smaller tips. Try half a size or one size smaller tips with it.


I am actually going back to their original medium (white) tips. I usually use foamies but the downside is that foamies tend to attract dust so I try to use more silicone tips as it is easier to keep clean.


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Any updated views on how the KZ AST compares with Moondrop Aria after the burn-in process?


The AST wins in instrument separation and detail retrieval imho. I love them both, but if you only have budget under $100 then the Aria is really a no brainer.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> I am actually going back to their original medium (white) tips. I usually use foamies but the downside is that foamies tend to attract dust so I try to use more silicone tips as it is easier to keep clean.


I think in terms of stock tips, TRN's soft white tips work better for me thou I largely use SP100 and Spiral Dots now. You may try those silicone wrapped foam tips if you prefer foams.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> The AST wins in instrument separation and detail retrieval imho. I love them both, but if you only have budget under $100 then the Aria is really a no brainer.


I still haven't hit the purchase button for the AST yet... I really worry there is too much bass and too little treble - too early roll-off. It is USD90 with coupon and I just bought 3 cheap IEMs (one of them is GREAT!) and the Variations. Do I need one more pair...?


----------



## artatgray

saldsald said:


> I still haven't hit the purchase button for the AST yet... I really worry there is too much bass and too little treble - too early roll-off.


That's my concern as well which is why I'm going to wait until crinacle (In Ear Fidelity) or oratory1990 (AutoEq) measures them. However, if they do respond as well to EQ as the ASX does (which I happen to own and are my favorite KZ IEM with EQ) I'm sure they'll sound great in that context. 

I won't purchase until trusted measurements arrive and setting appears for the AST on the AutoEQ github. Most IEMs are suck central without EQ anyway...  Before EQ:📱🎧🎶🤔  After EQ: 📱🎛️🎧🎶🤘🏾🤓🤘🏾


----------



## artatgray

I just wanted to pop back in to say that I'm listening to my Harman EQed ASX currently. Man! It sounds so good  that I'm about to take my pants off and pleasure myself while I'm listening to them!

Sorry! I'm a pervert... 📱🎧🎶 🤪✊🏾🍆⛲


----------



## whirlwind

eclein said:


> Loving my AST after using it for 6 days consecutively now, its especially good with R3 Pro Saber but my Plenue R and AST also sound great together. KZ got this one correct all 12 ways I think, its a bargain compared to just about anybody else’s 12 a side units and I’d be surprised if the AST wasn’t seriously close to sounding like totl pricewise iems.
> If your new to the hobby and have budgetary concerns buy a set of  KZ-AST’s and a Hyby R3 Pro Saber and for around $350 you’ll hear your music done up wonderfully! It is an amazing time for portable audio!


The R3 is a great dap....fits in your pocket easily


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> I am actually going back to their original medium (white) tips. I usually use foamies but the downside is that foamies tend to attract dust so I try to use more silicone tips as it is easier to keep clean.


 Do you have the Spinfit CP360 available to test with the AST? If so, let me know what you think about it using them.


----------



## saldsald (Jun 24, 2021)

artatgray said:


> That's my concern as well which is why I'm going to wait until crinacle (In Ear Fidelity) or oratory1990 (AutoEq) measures them. However, if they do respond as well to EQ as the ASX does (which I happen to own and are my favorite KZ IEM with EQ) I'm sure they'll sound great in that context.
> 
> I won't purchase until trusted measurements arrive and setting appears for the AST on the AutoEQ github. Most IEMs are suck central without EQ anyway...  Before EQ:📱🎧🎶🤔  After EQ: 📱🎛️🎧🎶🤘🏾🤓🤘🏾


I think all measurements are similar. They all use the same IEC711 coupler which I also have one. I am not sure if it is just me or the characteristics of using pick noise to measure SPL, insertion depth, cable, source, etc. don't really affect the measurements. I can always get tepatedy results and I always use 15 times averaging so the measurements are even more reliable. Anyway, to save my time thinking I just bought a black AST... going to go back to normal price after a day and a half. Hope this can stop me buying too many IEMs...


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Do you have the Spinfit CP360 available to test with the AST? If so, let me know what you think about it using them.


Don't have spinfit tips.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

saldsald said:


> I still haven't hit the purchase button for the AST yet... I really worry there is too much bass and too little treble - too early roll-off. It is USD90 with coupon and I just bought 3 cheap IEMs (one of them is GREAT!) and the Variations. Do I need one more pair...?


What was the cheap great one?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Will the AST be available in the UK on amazon?  Its currently shipping from china with a month wait.


----------



## artatgray

saldsald said:


> I think all measurements are similar. They all use the same IEC711 coupler which I also have one. I am not sure if it is just me or the characteristics of using pick noise to measure SPL, insertion depth, cable, source, etc. don't really affect the measurements. I can always get tepated results and I always use 15 times averaging so the measurements are even more reliable. Anyway, too save my time thinking I just bought a black AST... going to go back to normal price after a day and a half. Hope this can stop me buying too many IEMs...


That's nice for you but I have other plans which I intend to stick to.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> Don't have spinfit tips.


I don't have the AST, but my experience with spinfits is that they tend to drop bass performance a bit compared to other options, which may be a desireable outcome given how the AST are tuned.


----------



## voicemaster

mndless said:


> I don't have the AST, but my experience with spinfits is that they tend to drop bass performance a bit compared to other options, which may be a desireable outcome given how the AST are tuned.


The bass is not bothering me now. Either my ears have adjusted to it or the bass itself changed. The bass is pretty tight now and can push some air for BA drivers. I notice that I can hear and feel the bass guitar better on the AST where my CKX is you notice the bass guitar is there, but rarely no impact.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

mndless said:


> I don't have the AST, but my experience with spinfits is that they tend to drop bass performance a bit compared to other options, which may be a desireable outcome given how the AST are tuned.


I have replaced stock KZ startips with Spinfit CP145 on my KZ ZSX and I feel the bass improved but I believe that's due to a much better seal. 

I have been using Spinfit CP360 (which is basically a shorter lenght CP145) but didn't A/B against the stock tips that came stock with the KZ AST.


----------



## saldsald

Capo Dei Capi said:


> What was the cheap great one?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/post-16422757
This one.


----------



## voicemaster (Jun 24, 2021)

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I have replaced stock KZ startips with Spinfit CP145 on my KZ ZSX and I feel the bass improved but I believe that's due to a much better seal.
> 
> I have been using Spinfit CP360 (which is basically a shorter lenght CP145) but didn't A/B against the stock tips that came stock with the KZ AST.


I only have this spinfit tips that I forgot came with what IEM. Seems to reduce the bass a tiny bit and bring out the mid and high abit more forward.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jun 25, 2021)

Just FYI:
KZ-C style (covered pin like AST) pin has standard polarity just like other 0.78mm pins, but when you ordering cables with “qdc” finish, you may contact seller about polarity. If you use a qdc connector to KZ-C, negative polarity still produces sound but the the center of image may get blurred, which I happened to notice with my qdc cable.

If you find the original tuning too forward/sound pressure is too high, using qdc-pin may work as pressure-relief though. (not for AST at least)


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I have replaced stock KZ startips with Spinfit CP145 on my KZ ZSX and I feel the bass improved but I believe that's due to a much better seal.
> 
> I have been using Spinfit CP360 (which is basically a shorter lenght CP145) but didn't A/B against the stock tips that came stock with the KZ AST.


I tried both CP360(my default go-to tip for multi-BAs) and other CP series, both CP360 /CP100+ worked great👍 If you want to nerf the bass a bit and boost vocal, CP100+ (only available from Amazon Japan) is an option but it costs $14+14(intl shipping)😅


----------



## nicksson (Jun 25, 2021)

New KZ earphone? KZ-ZAS? (1 DD + 7BA) x 2 ...
What the heck? It is a ZAX + black BAs and XUN?


----------



## nraymond

AmericanSpirit said:


> I tried both CP360(my default go-to tip for multi-BAs) and other CP series, both CP360 /CP100+ worked great👍 If you want to nerf the bass a bit and boost vocal, CP100+ (only available from Amazon Japan) is an option but it costs $14+14(intl shipping)😅


CP100+ is available on Amazon US for $13.49 (2 pairs) sold by SpinFit, shipped by Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08Z7RBSNS/


----------



## RikudouGoku

nicksson said:


> New KZ earphone? KZ-ZAS? (1 DD + 7BA) x 2 ...
> What the heck? It is a ZAX + black BAs and XUN?


Weird looking DD








....graph looks absolutely horrible though..


----------



## MacAttack7 (Jun 25, 2021)

nicksson said:


> New KZ earphone? KZ-ZAS? (1 DD + 7BA) x 2 ...
> What the heck? It is a ZAX + black BAs and XUN?


That looks pretty sweet, and $61 seems like a pretty good price.
Makes the ASX and AST seem overpriced in comparison.
I don't even see that product anywhere else. Strange. It's like a hidden KZ suprise!


----------



## saldsald

nicksson said:


> New KZ earphone? KZ-ZAS? (1 DD + 7BA) x 2 ...
> What the heck? It is a ZAX + black BAs and XUN?


Shxt, I have to buy this.


----------



## Nimweth

RikudouGoku said:


> Weird looking DD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes,  that's the XUN DD,  the "missile launcher" from the AST and the 30019s HF BA.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> I tried both CP360(my default go-to tip for multi-BAs) and other CP series, both CP360 /CP100+ worked great👍 If you want to nerf the bass a bit and boost vocal, CP100+ (only available from Amazon Japan) is an option but it costs $14+14(intl shipping)😅


I'm in Brazil, so it would cost me "$30.43 Shipping & Import Fees Deposit to Brazil" according to Amazon US. 

I'll keep my CP360. lol


----------



## InvisibleInk

nicksson said:


> New KZ earphone? KZ-ZAS? (1 DD + 7BA) x 2 ...
> What the heck? It is a ZAX + black BAs and XUN?


I think you are right. A new version of the ZAX. I thought they would have called it a ZAX Pro instead.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

I don't see any videos. Its not even listed on their website?

Strange


----------



## AmericanSpirit

nraymond said:


> CP100+ is available on Amazon US for $13.49 (2 pairs) sold by SpinFit, shipped by Amazon:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08Z7RBSNS/


wow! fantastic! thanks for sharing! I was considering ordering another pair.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> Weird looking DD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


10db downhill then roller coaster lol


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

RikudouGoku said:


> Weird looking DD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL


----------



## voicemaster

Don't take KZ graph seriously. They have their own standard.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> Don't take KZ graph seriously. They have their own standard.


Yep. Let's just remember that a lot of people were talking how crappy the AST FR chart was when launched.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Yep. Let's just remember that a lot of people were talking how crappy the AST FR chart was when launched.


For 60 dollars i would buy it.

Lets hope its available soon.


----------



## adityan

Hello, i'm new here.. been using kz zs10 pro for 4 months. But, yesterday, my left piece of zs10 pro volume is turned down suddenly.. i don't know why. I could re-attach the 3.5 mm jack to get volume normal, but, if i create some vacuum by push the iem deep in my ear, the volume goes down, its like 2 stepped decreased volume. What happened, and is it could be repaired? Thank's.


----------



## voicemaster




----------



## chinmie

adityan said:


> Hello, i'm new here.. been using kz zs10 pro for 4 months. But, yesterday, my left piece of zs10 pro volume is turned down suddenly.. i don't know why. I could re-attach the 3.5 mm jack to get volume normal, but, if i create some vacuum by push the iem deep in my ear, the volume goes down, its like 2 stepped decreased volume. What happened, and is it could be repaired? Thank's.



most likely you have driver flex on your left unit. you could try to fix it by sucking and blowing the nozzle, but it will happen again from time to time. to reduce the chances of it happening, try to insert it gently, also you can pull the earlobe a bit when inserting so you don't create vacuum too early


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


>



That's the only one I'm considering right now after the AST is the Moondrop Variations. Can't wait for your impressions and if possible also if the AST is able to keep up with it in any means.


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> That's the only one I'm considering right now after the AST is the Moondrop Variations. Can't wait for your impressions and if possible also if the AST is able to keep up with it in any means.


Even without burn-in ootb, the Variations is better than the AST. The variations is smooth af. The only similar between them is how both handle cymbals sound where they are a bit behind from the mix thus making the sound non harsh. The price is like 5x of AST tho.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> Even without burn-in ootb, the Variations is better than the AST. The variations is smooth af. The only similar between them is how both handle cymbals sound where they are a bit behind from the mix thus making the sound non harsh. The price is like 5x of AST tho.


Yep, it's a game of diminishing returns. For 5x the price it HAS TO be better, but _*by how much*_ is subjected to the decision of the buyer.


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Yep, it's a game of diminishing returns. For 5x the price it HAS TO be better, but _*by how much*_ is subjected to the decision of the buyer.


Hm... I haven't dwell in the mid-fi since JVC HA-FX1100 ($300ish) so I don't know what the midrange offerings sound like compared to budget IEM like KZ/CCA, BLON, etc.
But from my listening so far, the EST drivers do sound different from DD or BA drivers. It has this crispness just like how planar vs DD in headphone sound.


----------



## mndless

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Yep, it's a game of diminishing returns. For 5x the price it HAS TO be better, but _*by how much*_ is subjected to the decision of the buyer.


Exactly. It also depends on how you look at the expenses over time. If you can be content with a $120 set of IEMs and resist the temptation to continue to purchase, then the increase in cost for the improved performance may not be worthwhile. If you continue to hunt for an end-game IEM in the inexpensive Chi-fi markets, then you may end up spending near enough the same amount of money over time. Of course, just because you find an end-game IEM, this doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be able or willing to give up the hunt for the next new toy. It all depends really on where you can call it quits for the quest.


----------



## voicemaster

I, for one, even when having the most expensive IEM in the world, I will still buy other IEMs (can be budget, midrange or even high end) because I am curious. Although usually after buying more expensive stuff, I don't just blind buy IEMs for quite awhile unlike when buying KZ/CCA, I can buy 2-3 different models because it is cheap.


----------



## r31ya

nicksson said:


> New KZ earphone? KZ-ZAS? (1 DD + 7BA) x 2 ...
> What the heck? It is a ZAX + black BAs and XUN?


KZ ZAX with Xun and Black BAs...
This is basically what i wished for (minus vented shell) and if its stable at $60, it have decent price too.
Now we wait for first impression


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## saldsald (Jun 25, 2021)

Same rollercoaster FR curves, for those who like their DQ6 and CSN.


r31ya said:


> KZ ZAX with Xun and Black BAs...
> This is basically what i wished for (minus vented shell) and if its stable at $60, it have decent price too.
> Now we wait for first impression


I think it is more like a CSN x AST.


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> Same rollercoaster FR curves, for those who like their DQ6 and CSN.
> 
> I think it is more like a CSN x AST.


That plummet off a cliff at just past 10K is quite troubling if you like to hear the upper harmonics. Best to wait for a review sample to land on someone's desk to see what it actually does.


----------



## saldsald (Jun 25, 2021)

mndless said:


> That plummet off a cliff at just past 10K is quite troubling if you like to hear the upper harmonics. Best to wait for a review sample to land on someone's desk to see what it actually does.


That would be my desk, lol. I was gonna mod one of my CSN to a multi BA DD set and KZ have done that for me.


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> That would be my desk, lol. I was gonna mod one of my CSN to a multi BA DD set and KZ have done that for me.


On the plus side, you'll get a shell you can swap the BAs in and a crossover you can swap components on to retune it. Take us through your progress when you decide to pull it apart. Sounds like quite a fun time! I'd yank out a pair of the mid BAs for some BAs that can handle the ultra-high treble, but that would require messing with the crossover quite a bit, which is more than a little beyond my expertise.


----------



## adityan

chinmie said:


> most likely you have driver flex on your left unit. you could try to fix it by sucking and blowing the nozzle, but it will happen again from time to time. to reduce the chances of it happening, try to insert it gently, also you can pull the earlobe a bit when inserting so you don't create vacuum too early


Is it able to be repaired?
So then maybe which part of my iem which broken?


----------



## paulwasabii

Thanks to C0UGHEE who sent this to me.  For those who look at KZ on Amazon US will recognize the G.K branding.  Don't know much about it other than its listed here:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097R96XB6


----------



## voicemaster

Wow 10 drivers hybrid!! Is that like a subsidiary brand or what?


----------



## rayliam80

AmericanSpirit said:


> wow! fantastic! thanks for sharing! I was considering ordering another pair.



I ordered these during the Amazon Prime day sale. My first set of Spinfit tips. I got them for about $3 off. I didn’t really dig them with them with the DQ6 that I also received.


----------



## redguardsoldier

voicemaster said:


> Wow 10 drivers hybrid!! Is that like a subsidiary brand or what?


Their "10 drivers" is actually 5 per side . KZ/CCA have been calculating like that since like forever


----------



## saldsald

mndless said:


> On the plus side, you'll get a shell you can swap the BAs in and a crossover you can swap components on to retune it. Take us through your progress when you decide to pull it apart. Sounds like quite a fun time! I'd yank out a pair of the mid BAs for some BAs that can handle the ultra-high treble, but that would require messing with the crossover quite a bit, which is more than a little beyond my expertise.


Then I will need to get another pair.... there is definitely a hole in my wallet now.....I will do some measurements first as I am not sure if it is worth doing so. I assume there will be no crossover for the DD again but will have a slightly lower contribution this time however still more than 75%. Maybe I will just swap the RC instead. For the CSN I still planned to do something overkill, that is to extract the DD and BA, tube them, mod the shell, and add an EST driver there or even a Bass BA. This will be definitely beyond my expertise also but hey, the CSN is cheap and I am not afraid of failure.


----------



## rayliam80

paulwasabii said:


> Thanks to C0UGHEE who sent this to me.  For those who look at KZ on Amazon US will recognize the G.K branding.  Don't know much about it other than its listed here:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097R96XB6



BA in the nozzle….though it comes with the now-old school KZ starline tips….


----------



## voicemaster

redguardsoldier said:


> Their "10 drivers" is actually 5 per side . KZ/CCA have been calculating like that since like forever


Oh yeah true. I forgot like ZS10 pro is 10 drivers total.


----------



## saldsald

voicemaster said:


> Wow 10 drivers hybrid!! Is that like a subsidiary brand or what?


That is just 5 (4BA + 1DD) on each side isn't it?


----------



## voicemaster

saldsald said:


> That is just 5 (4BA + 1DD) on each side isn't it?


Yep. KZ/CCA always mention the total of drivers on from both sides.


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> Then I will need to get another pair.... there is definitely a hole in my wallet now.....I will do some measurements first as I am not sure if it is worth doing so. I assume there will be no crossover for the DD again but will have a slightly lower contribution this time however still more than 75%. Maybe I will just swap the RC instead. For the CSN I still planned to do something overkill, that is to extract the DD and BA, tube them, mod the shell, and add an EST driver there or even a Bass BA. This will be definitely beyond my expertise also but hey, the CSN is cheap and I am not afraid of failure.


I'm super excited to see where this takes you! It sounds like such fun! There are also some sellers on AliExpress that sell resin, wood, and metal IEM shells if you find that the original shell no longer meets your standards.


----------



## Oruzitch (Jun 26, 2021)

adityan said:


> Is it able to be repaired?
> So then maybe which part of my iem which broken?


You can always drill a hole in the shell for extra venting.

Otherwise open your mouth and push your ear towards your back when inserting the iems.
Also check the vents and clean them, since this didnt happen until 4 months using them.


----------



## Sebulr

adityan said:


> Hello, i'm new here.. been using kz zs10 pro for 4 months. But, yesterday, my left piece of zs10 pro volume is turned down suddenly.. i don't know why. I could re-attach the 3.5 mm jack to get volume normal, but, if i create some vacuum by push the iem deep in my ear, the volume goes down, its like 2 stepped decreased volume. What happened, and is it could be repaired? Thank's.


As others have said, that sounds like driver flex, you could try cleaning the vents in the IEM's with a cloth and some polish, then crank the volume for five minutes with them out of your ears to move the dynamic driver.  I would also take the filters off and try them without, temporarily, they might be damp or clogged. If so, try cleaning or replacing them. I remember back in the day when I had Shures, they used to come with replacable filters in case they became clogged, I have never had this problem however, I guess clean my ears regularly enough. You can buy replacement filters if it becomes a problem.


----------



## nekonhime

Have anyone try the kz z3?


----------



## saldsald (Jun 26, 2021)

mndless said:


> I'm super excited to see where this takes you! It sounds like such fun! There are also some sellers on AliExpress that sell resin, wood, and metal IEM shells if you find that the original shell no longer meets your standards.


Yea it is cheap to do and should be fun. I find myself enjoying more modding these cheap but good IEMs than getting an expensive IEM. I actually already tried reshelling the KZ EDX into a full metal shell but the result was just average. Also tried modding the plastic nozzles of the EDX into metal ones. There is a seller I found selling 3D printed shells that are super good looking but on TaoBao and I might get a few later.




Drivers extracted from EDX.


----------



## Head-dicted (Jun 27, 2021)

Hell folks , what is the lowest age of using these buds? My daughter of just 12 years of age .She wanted to use the EDX but told her not because shes too young for that without getting more technical on ear design  etc . I own also the ZSN and the TRN ST1.
For the moment she didnt wear them because the shape annoyed her ears. She already used  a few typical earplugs the last 2 years


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Hi KZ fans - I'm currently enjoying a set of CCA C12 for the past couple of months. I listen to a lot of classical and jazz and am wondering if AS16 or the ZAX would be an upgrade? I have decided against CCA CA16 many describe the treble as being recessed or smoother over or some such vs. the C12, which is going the wrong direction for me.  I had BL03s and hated them. bass was muddy to my ears and the treble was lacking clarity or sparkle. TRN and other chifi brands don't really speak to me.  

I'm looking for tons of instrument separation, good soundstage, and lean toward bright preferences for treble.  All those crispy sounds from a snare brush, the popping of sax reeds at low volume, mind piercing rips off a coronet solo - all that seems to disappear with what most people consider "good tuning that doesn't fatigue". 

In CCA's newest linuep, I don't think CA16 or CKX are an upgrade over the C12 for me. Oddly enough, I chose C12 over ZSX terminators because there seemed to review as being a touch flatter, and I like to control the EQ curve moving genre to genre. I think it was probably the right choice but I haven't heard ZSX.

AST is close to being an impulse purchase but I am scared off with a KZ's trend toward rolled off or "contained" treble. From the graphs, the AST looks like a contradiction:  24 BAs tuned to be look like a single dynamic driver IEM. What gives?!  Do all those drivers respond to EQ? 

ZAX's open back design and elevated bass might have some pluses, as listening at lower volumes usually requires 3-5db bass increase for my ears. the "looseness" description about the bass seems worrying though for classical when things get busy at 70-85db.  

Thanks in advance for your feedback. Debating DQ6 or CCN as a complimentary pair to this choice above ^ for rock and electronica.


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Hi KZ fans - I'm currently enjoying a set of CCA C12 for the past couple of months. I listen to a lot of classical and jazz and am wondering if AS16 or the ZAX would be an upgrade? I have decided against CCA CA16 many describe the treble as being recessed or smoother over or some such vs. the C12, which is going the wrong direction for me.  I had BL03s and hated them. bass was muddy to my ears and the treble was lacking clarity or sparkle. TRN and other chifi brands don't really speak to me.
> 
> I'm looking for tons of instrument separation, good soundstage, and lean toward bright preferences for treble.  All those crispy sounds from a snare brush, the popping of sax reeds at low volume, mind piercing rips off a coronet solo - all that seems to disappear with what most people consider "good tuning that doesn't fatigue".
> 
> ...


Can you reccommend some reference tracks so people can get a feel for the music you listen to?


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Hi KZ fans - I'm currently enjoying a set of CCA C12 for the past couple of months. I listen to a lot of classical and jazz and am wondering if AS16 or the ZAX would be an upgrade? I have decided against CCA CA16 many describe the treble as being recessed or smoother over or some such vs. the C12, which is going the wrong direction for me.  I had BL03s and hated them. bass was muddy to my ears and the treble was lacking clarity or sparkle. TRN and other chifi brands don't really speak to me.
> 
> I'm looking for tons of instrument separation, good soundstage, and lean toward bright preferences for treble.  All those crispy sounds from a snare brush, the popping of sax reeds at low volume, mind piercing rips off a coronet solo - all that seems to disappear with what most people consider "good tuning that doesn't fatigue".
> 
> ...


ZAX would be a direct upgrade of C12. If you are OK with a more ample bass, you should love the treble.

AS16 are more specific, treble is emphasized, bass is lean. I Iove them for strings, especially pizzicato, but it is hard to recommend unequivocally.

C16 (not CA16) may be a more midcentric all arounder for all BAs.

BA10 are definitely to consider, the look is more scary than the fit, but large audiophile-trained ears would certainly help


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Hi KZ fans - I'm currently enjoying a set of CCA C12 for the past couple of months. I listen to a lot of classical and jazz and am wondering if AS16 or the ZAX would be an upgrade? I have decided against CCA CA16 many describe the treble as being recessed or smoother over or some such vs. the C12, which is going the wrong direction for me.  I had BL03s and hated them. bass was muddy to my ears and the treble was lacking clarity or sparkle. TRN and other chifi brands don't really speak to me.
> 
> I'm looking for tons of instrument separation, good soundstage, and lean toward bright preferences for treble.  All those crispy sounds from a snare brush, the popping of sax reeds at low volume, mind piercing rips off a coronet solo - all that seems to disappear with what most people consider "good tuning that doesn't fatigue".
> 
> ...


I really think you would like the CKX. It is an improvement on the C12 in every way and is my favourite CCA. I prefer it to the ZAX as it sounds more natural and has a better, more even treble. Bass is solid and the build quality is excellent. Pair it with a good cable like the TRI Through and you will get a lot of musical enjoyment.


----------



## mndless

Nimweth said:


> I really think you would like the CKX. It is an improvement on the C12 in every way and is my favourite CCA. I prefer it to the ZAX as it sounds more natural and has a better, more even treble. Bass is solid and the build quality is excellent. Pair it with a good cable like the TRI Through and you will get a lot of musical enjoyment.


I second that rec. Pair with Sony Triple Comfort tips for improved bass performance and a very, very modest tempering of the treble.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Head-dicted said:


> Hell folks , what is the lowest age of using these buds? My daughter of just 12 years of age .She wanted to use the EDX but told her not because shes too young for that without getting more technical on ear design  etc . I own also the ZSN and the TRN ST1.
> For the moment she didnt wear them because the shape annoyed her ears. She already used  a few typical earplugs the last 2 years


I started using the Sennheiser CX300-ii at around that age but the EDX shape might be too big though. I would consider getting bullet style iems instead. Check out the Final Audio E series (E500, E1000, E3000 are good recs) and also because she might be very treble sensitive at that age.


----------



## Oruzitch

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Hi KZ fans - I'm currently enjoying a set of CCA C12 for the past couple of months. I listen to a lot of classical and jazz and am wondering if AS16 or the ZAX would be an upgrade? I have decided against CCA CA16 many describe the treble as being recessed or smoother over or some such vs. the C12, which is going the wrong direction for me.  I had BL03s and hated them. bass was muddy to my ears and the treble was lacking clarity or sparkle. TRN and other chifi brands don't really speak to me.
> 
> I'm looking for tons of instrument separation, good soundstage, and lean toward bright preferences for treble.  All those crispy sounds from a snare brush, the popping of sax reeds at low volume, mind piercing rips off a coronet solo - all that seems to disappear with what most people consider "good tuning that doesn't fatigue".
> 
> ...


Maybe also consider NF audio NM2/NA2, i like my NA2s a lot more than ZSX and sightly more than TRI Starsea.

NM2 seems to be a bit more v shaped than NA2 thats bass bosted with a more balanced approach to mids/treble.
They use the same driver just different tuning.


----------



## voicemaster

Head-dicted said:


> Hell folks , what is the lowest age of using these buds? My daughter of just 12 years of age .She wanted to use the EDX but told her not because shes too young for that without getting more technical on ear design  etc . I own also the ZSN and the TRN ST1.
> For the moment she didnt wear them because the shape annoyed her ears. She already used  a few typical earplugs the last 2 years


The CCA CKX is smaller than any IEMs I've owned so far.


----------



## Head-dicted

RikudouGoku said:


> I started using the Sennheiser CX300-ii at around that age but the EDX shape might be too big though. I would consider getting bullet style iems instead. Check out the Final Audio E series (E500, E1000, E3000 are good recs) and also because she might be very treble sensitive at that age.
> Interesting . I gave her two Betron U shaped models of below 9 Eu price ad also one Inkax that is relatively trebly. She also uses the Awei 760 BT model as partner for her smartphone


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Hi KZ fans - I'm currently enjoying a set of CCA C12 for the past couple of months. I listen to a lot of classical and jazz and am wondering if AS16 or the ZAX would be an upgrade? I have decided against CCA CA16 many describe the treble as being recessed or smoother over or some such vs. the C12, which is going the wrong direction for me.  I had BL03s and hated them. bass was muddy to my ears and the treble was lacking clarity or sparkle. TRN and other chifi brands don't really speak to me.
> 
> I'm looking for tons of instrument separation, good soundstage, and lean toward bright preferences for treble.  All those crispy sounds from a snare brush, the popping of sax reeds at low volume, mind piercing rips off a coronet solo - all that seems to disappear with what most people consider "good tuning that doesn't fatigue".
> 
> ...


There is also new "ZAS" - if exploring new things is wanted 

It may be prudent to test firsr how the XUN DD works to your preference with DQ6 or CSN.

DQ6 are a more unique/complimentary to hybrids like C12 and ZAX, in my opinion.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

wow - great feedback in such a short time!  


mndless said:


> Can you reccommend some reference tracks so people can get a feel for the music you listen to?



Night Lights from Jerry Mulligan Sextet is a good example. Acoustically there is a lot happening on this recording, and you need a bit of elevated treble to hear it. I am a former low brass musician (another lifetime by now) and when that low raspiness of the tone's edges are missing at low volumes it makes me want to throw things. x-D If your phones or speakers don't have good instrument separation, it will blend into the snare brush and just sound like static.  Now, above that, when the piano comes back on, listen out for those delicate strings supporting the melody in the left channel. The C12's excel here (way better than $35 has any right to) relative to a lot of things.



Classical - Isle of the Dead, from Rachmaninoff. The dynamics in this track destroy the illusion of quality in a lot of setups. Timpani can disappear into the brass. Crescendos distort. Sloppy subbass screws up the plucking on contrabass.  When things get going and the orchestra begins to really send the beans at the 7 minute mark, if your speakers have bad instrument separation, this will just sound loud and terrible. C12 is just barely adequate here. The bottom end of the orchestra could be tighter. Compared to my old Shure SE315 or AKG 702 it's not nearly as tight as it could be. Compared to overears like Shure SRH840 the bottom end is 1/2 missing. Soundstage is acceptable for an IEM, but more width would help keep the busy parts from stepping on each other.  


Piano tones and simpler arrangements are all fine. Opera vocals are enjoyable. It's really just big orchestra that trips up that 7mm dynamic.  FWIW, it's the same for fast metal. The Last Baron from Mastodon is a good example.  Both guitar parts have good crunch and detail, vocals are good, all the crazy samples can be picked out ... but the bottom end is just like 3/4 there. KZ foams (the pack sold separately, not stock ones) and the KZ starline silicones both give a good seal, but the bore is a bit deep and narrow. Might need to try one of the shallow-wide bore tips to see what happens.  



Nimweth said:


> I really think you would like the CKX. It is an improvement on the C12 in every way and is my favourite CCA. I prefer it to the ZAX as it sounds more natural and has a better, more even treble. Bass is solid and the build quality is excellent. Pair it with a good cable like the TRI Through and you will get a lot of musical enjoyment.



Thanks for chiming in Nimweth, i've enjoyed your reviews. what balanced cable would you rec for the CKX? I'm using BTR3k mostly right now (ordered w/ the C12). It's great. I was going to pull the trigger shortly after on a Qudelix 5k to compare, but it seems pointless for sensitive IEMs.  Bluetooth LDAC from my laptop w/ bt 5.1 is silly levels of good for the cost.  Even though these are sensitive, I find that I'm pushing volume on the 3k pretty hard. I go to max then click 5 down from peak volume. I thought that maybe a balanced cable might add back some bass.  



PhonoPhi said:


> There is also new "ZAS" - if exploring new things is wanted
> 
> It may be prudent to test firsr how the XUN DD works to your preference with DQ6 or CSN.



I have all of these including the ZAS in my cart right now on AliExpress  but my wallet says I gotta choose! I was stoked about DQ6 but after being so disappointed in Blon BL03 I thought I'd relegate myself to hybrids or full BA setup. After burn in and spending time with them, C12 is what I'd consider to be a _very good, _but not quite great. 

Outside KZ/CCA there isn't much that's caught my attention besides Shuoer Tape. From what I've read I don't think Moondrop Starfield or Blessing 2 is an upgrade for me, even over the C12.  People seem to like the timbre and relaxed tuning on these for pop / rock more than anything, which is cool, just not what I'm looking for.  I don't think an EQ preset is worth $500-$1500 premium.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Outside KZ/CCA there isn't much that's caught my attention besides Shuoer Tape. From what I've read I don't think Moondrop Starfield or Blessing 2 is an upgrade for me, even over the C12.  People seem to like the timbre and relaxed tuning on these for pop / rock more than anything, which is cool, just not what I'm looking for.  I don't think an EQ preset is worth $500-$1500 premium.


The Tape (original, avoid the "pro" at all costs!) needs EQ though.


----------



## Robius

ZAS in black and gold looks so hot. I whish they would send some units for reviews first.


----------



## MacAttack7

Robius said:


> ZAS in black and gold looks so hot. I whish they would send some units for reviews first.


They do look pretty cool. 
I went on a KZ/CCA binge lately because the new shapes fit my ear so incredibly well, and I love the sound, (and I got them on sale).
So I tell myself I am done buying earphones. No more!

The ASX sounds perfect as far as my non-audiophile ears are concerned, and I could run a sprint wearing them, and they won't move.
There's nothing more I want or need really. 
So I'm done! (Except for the AST that is in the mail....then I'm done.)


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> wow - great feedback in such a short time!
> 
> 
> Night Lights from Jerry Mulligan Sextet is a good example. Acoustically there is a lot happening on this recording, and you need a bit of elevated treble to hear it. I am a former low brass musician (another lifetime by now) and when that low raspiness of the tone's edges are missing at low volumes it makes me want to throw things. x-D If your phones or speakers don't have good instrument separation, it will blend into the snare brush and just sound like static.  Now, above that, when the piano comes back on, listen out for those delicate strings supporting the melody in the left channel. The C12's excel here (way better than $35 has any right to) relative to a lot of things.
> ...



I have used the balanced 2-pin cable from the Shuoer Tape Pro with excellent results, the KBEAR Limpid Pro is also very good.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> I started using the Sennheiser CX300-ii at around that age but the EDX shape might be too big though. I would consider getting bullet style iems instead. Check out the Final Audio E series (E500, E1000, E3000 are good recs) and also because she might be very treble sensitive at that age.


Agree. It is questionable to let kids using ear V or U-shape IEM, it may affect premature hearing impaired or trigger bad listening habits.  Final E500 or E1000 is good neutral and affordable IEM, with very small shells which should fit to child’s ears as well.
I’d forget about Etymotics, because those are “hearing-aid neutral; i.e. voice centric”.


----------



## r31ya

Head-dicted said:


> Hell folks , what is the lowest age of using these buds? My daughter of just 12 years of age .She wanted to use the EDX but told her not because shes too young for that without getting more technical on ear design  etc . I own also the ZSN and the TRN ST1.
> For the moment she didnt wear them because the shape annoyed her ears. She already used  a few typical earplugs the last 2 years


I wanna say, get *Tanchjim Tanya*.
Bullet shaped, light, have good full bodied sound with good layering, didn't have sharp treble.
But it require an amp to push the proper sound out and it have non-detachable cable which makes it a bit more less durable in a the hand of 12 Y/O.

then again, its relatively cheap and if you are willing to replace it within 6 month or so, it's a decent IEM to recommend.


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> Agree. It is questionable to let kids using ear V or U-shape IEM, it may affect premature hearing impaired or trigger bad listening habits.  Final E500 or E1000 is good neutral and affordable IEM, with very small shells which should fit to child’s ears as well.
> I’d forget about Etymotics, because those are “hearing-aid neutral; i.e. voice centric”.


Maybe a CCA CKX with the stock filter removed, a micropore filter added and a new wax filter installed over that? Should drop the treble to comfortable listening levels without needing EQ. You'll need a small eartip with a fairly thin tube wall since the nozzle on the CKX is so ridiculously huge.


----------



## baskingshark

Head-dicted said:


> Hell folks , what is the lowest age of using these buds? My daughter of just 12 years of age .She wanted to use the EDX but told her not because shes too young for that without getting more technical on ear design  etc . I own also the ZSN and the TRN ST1.
> For the moment she didnt wear them because the shape annoyed her ears. She already used  a few typical earplugs the last 2 years



I realize for my younger relatives, most of them are into TWS or just stuff with nice design/colours. They are also impressionable and will follow the latest trends and brands that their friends use.

So they go more for looks and brand-name than actual sound quality. I have bought some bang for buck chifi to gift them as Christmas gifts and they didn't really use it, I see them using beats gear and apple pods zzzzzz.



FWIW, my kids use some sniggle headphones. This one is comfortable and has a built in volume limiter, so as not to spoil their hearing. I have tried amping it on my desktop amp and it indeed can't go more than 60 dB or so on a normal smartphone. Pretty cheap too at around $10 usd, so no biggie if they damage it.



A lot of younger kids can't fit traditional iems and earbuds due to their smaller ears, so I guess at least headphones should be better fitting.


----------



## saldsald

I know both me and the shop are being overly efficient this time...

11 Resistors and 2 Caps? 

They are really light, almost too light and plastic. Definitely not a successor of the ZAX but the CSN.


----------



## TheVortex

saldsald said:


> I know both me and the shop are being overly efficient this time...
> 
> 11 Resistors and 2 Caps?
> 
> They are really light, almost too light and plastic. Definitely not a successor of the ZAX but the CSN.



Impressions so far?


----------



## saldsald

TheVortex said:


> Impressions so far?


hmmm...not too impressed, lol. For now I prefer my modded CSN. I don't hear much difference between this and the stock CSN.


----------



## cappuchino (Jun 28, 2021)

saldsald said:


> I know both me and the shop are being overly efficient this time...
> 
> 11 Resistors and 2 Caps?
> 
> They are really light, almost too light and plastic. Definitely not a successor of the ZAX but the CSN.


Got the black/gold incoming. Good thing that even the mid-tier KZ's now come with a better cable. So it's warmer than the usual V tuning? More relaxed treble?


Might the BA be also taming the highs just like in your findings with the CSN?


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> I know both me and the shop are being overly efficient this time...
> 
> 11 Resistors and 2 Caps?
> 
> They are really light, almost too light and plastic. Definitely not a successor of the ZAX but the CSN.


Just a bassier version of the CSN? And you need a bass heavy track to hear the difference. Mids are also slightly thicker but not by much.

The array of 50024s are there to add bass? Just like in the AST?


----------



## saldsald

cappuchino said:


> Got the black/gold incoming. Good thing that even the mid-tier KZ's now come with a better cable. So it's warmer than the usual V tuning? More relaxed treble?
> 
> 
> Might the BA be also taming the highs just like in your findings with the CSN?


I think it wasn't exactly like that, The BAs don't really do anything in the CSN I think.


----------



## cappuchino

saldsald said:


> I think it wasn't exactly like that, The BAs don't really do anything in the CSN I think.


Oh, my bad. Must have mixed up the results of your test 😂


----------



## saldsald (Jun 28, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Oh, my bad. Must have mixed up the results of your test 😂


Not really. It is very confusing. I mean the BAs don't make a sound as I could not hear any difference between the left (stocked wired the BA in phase) and right (stocked wired the BA in antiphase). I replaced the PCB and then I could hear the difference. The QC or maybe the design is really making it very confusing.


----------



## TheVortex

saldsald said:


> hmmm...not too impressed, lol. For now I prefer my modded CSN. I don't hear much difference between this and the stock CSN.


 A skip for me already lol. Cheers for the reply.


----------



## saldsald

TheVortex said:


> A skip for me already lol. Cheers for the reply.


Seriously, get a pair of CSN and just simply replaced the stock PCB, also check the wiring of the BAs you should be quite satisfied.


----------



## TheVortex

saldsald said:


> Seriously, get a pair of CSN and just simply replaced the stock PCB, also check the wiring of the BAs you should be quite satisfied.


I already have the CSN. Are they easy to open up then? I have never swapped a PCB before.


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> Seriously, get a pair of CSN and just simply replaced the stock PCB, also check the wiring of the BAs you should be quite satisfied.


Seems like a fun pastime, but not necessarily the most inexpensive way to get a nice set of IEMs. Still, a valuable experience and a nice entry into tinkering to make your own IEMs down the road.


----------



## saldsald (Jun 28, 2021)

TheVortex said:


> I already have the CSN. Are they easy to open up then? I have never swapped a PCB before.


First heat with a hairdryer to soften the glue between the shell and the metal cover. Then carefully use a cutter (or much better with a scraper knife) and insert it into the slit between the shell and the cover. It is best to start from the top as it is kind of an even surface. Then you should see a free floating PCB there connected in series with the 30095 like this +ve -> 20ohm -> 330nF - +ve BA. I fabricated PCBs with those PCBs with a lot of holes myself to make the soldering easier. Also, I used metal film resistors and ceramic caps.


----------



## saldsald (Jun 28, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Just a bassier version of the CSN? And you need a bass heavy track to hear the difference. Mids are also slightly thicker but not by much.
> 
> The array of 50024s are there to add bass? Just like in the AST?


To be fair I think the BAs in there may need some time to run-in and to settle but so far I think the 50024s are not bringing extra definition and dimensions to the mix, actually the other way round. It is easy to hear that there is more bass but the extra bass is making the punchy bass of the XUN driver kind of blurry. There is also clearly more mid but I find the mid plastic sounding, for now. I hope running-in will make some improvements. Will also compare with the AST soon.


----------



## cappuchino (Jun 28, 2021)

Another graph of the ZAS for comparison... Directly from KZ.


----------



## TheVortex

cappuchino said:


> Another graph of the ZAS for comparison... Directly from KZ.



Doesn't look great and they need to step up the tuning and create something magnificent lol. They also need to dampen the BAs.


----------



## cappuchino (Jun 28, 2021)

TheVortex said:


> Doesn't look great and they need to step up the tuning and create something magnificent lol. They also need to dampen the BAs.


Yeah, that upper midrange elevation is really tailored for the Chinese market. Though the treble does seem to be less peaky and "rather relaxed" so not sure about dampening to BAs. Bass, based on the FR, is looking to be a bit over my limit but we'll see after a week or so.


----------



## mndless

cappuchino said:


> Yeah, that upper midrange elevation is really tailored for the Chinese market. Though the treble does seem to be less peaky and "rather relaxed" so not sure about dampening to BAs. Bass, based on the FR, is looking to be a bit over my limit but we'll see after a week or so.


I am a bit curious exactly what listening scenario they're designing that FR for. The IEMs I'm currently using are nearly a flat FR graph and I don't think I'm really too interested in a more than 15dB deviation from that anymore. Their FR graphs always just seem so extreme to me, especially how they treat the treble transition. It's just so sharp.


----------



## TheVortex

cappuchino said:


> Yeah, that upper midrange elevation is really tailored for the Chinese market. Though the treble does seem to be less peaky and "rather relaxed" so not sure about dampening to BAs. Bass, based on the FR, is looking to be a bit over my limit but we'll see after a week or so.


A bit less bass, less elevated upper mids, a little more treble and dampening and they could potentially end game.


----------



## mndless

TheVortex said:


> A bit less bass, less elevated upper mids, a little more treble and dampening and they could potentially end game.


Well, I'm not sure if they'd be "end game" for some, but they'd certainly be putting up more of a credible fight instead of going through all the trouble of modifying these drivers, engineering the crossovers, designing the shell and tooling up for production to make something that can really only be treated as entry level. Seems like a lot of effort that, while it may make them money in their target market, doesn't necessarily improve their brand image as much as they might have hoped. The AST really was a good stepping stone to serve as a point to pivot their brand image and rework their "house sound" and these graphs aren't demonstrating that they're taking advantage of it. Maybe CCA will do something interesting with KZ's components in the future while KZ is busy sorting themselves out.


----------



## TheVortex

mndless said:


> Well, I'm not sure if they'd be "end game" for some, but they'd certainly be putting up more of a credible fight instead of going through all the trouble of modifying these drivers, engineering the crossovers, designing the shell and tooling up for production to make something that can really only be treated as entry level. Seems like a lot of effort that, while it may make them money in their target market, doesn't necessarily improve their brand image as much as they might have hoped. The AST really was a good stepping stone to serve as a point to pivot their brand image and rework their "house sound" and these graphs aren't demonstrating that they're taking advantage of it. Maybe CCA will do something interesting with KZ's components in the future while KZ is busy sorting themselves out.



End game is impossible but like you said they could put up a fighting chance and they could make something very well tuned but they don't which is a shame.

I never tried the AST as the last KZ I had was the ASX which was a disappointment to say the least. I typically like what CCA do over KZ like the CKX and CA16.

KZ should really make international models as they are well known by now with a different tuning with a more relaxed upper mids.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 28, 2021)

TheVortex said:


> A bit less bass, less elevated upper mids, a little more treble and dampening and they could potentially end game.


KZ are not into the "end game", they are seemingly enjoying the process of making IEMs with different sound signatures.

From a broader, more philosophical perspective: drawing parallels with sex - when you have reached  the "end game", now what?

P. S. ASX (with a wide nozzle replacement) are my pair (a pair of pairs, actually) that still nothing comes close for my listening preferences.


----------



## mndless

TheVortex said:


> End game is impossible but like you said they could put up a fighting chance and they could make something very well tuned but they don't which is a shame.
> 
> I never tried the AST as the last KZ I had was the ASX which was a disappointment to say the least. I typically like what CCA do over KZ like the CKX and CA16.
> 
> KZ should really make international models as they are well known by now with a different tuning with a more relaxed upper mids.


Just a single model like the AST with a Harmon curve tuning would do them well. Something with high resolving power but still strong bass performance to mark it as a notable improvement over their older BA models. Shove it in a tidy, attractive shell and sell it at a price that is similar to the current AST and they'd really wedge their foot in the door of the western market in a more meaningful way than they already have.

I'm always a big fan of rooting for the underdog, so I really do want them to succeed even more in less adventageous markets for them, so it's such a shame when their new products drop and it isn't something that would do that for them. Maybe they should try to partner with Crinacle or something for a special model for the western markets since he likes the Harmon 2019 curve quite a lot, understandably so. They can even keep some of the treble for that bright, twinkling high register, just keep things reasonable so it works for more genres.


----------



## TheVortex

mndless said:


> Just a single model like the AST with a Harmon curve tuning would do them well. Something with high resolving power but still strong bass performance to mark it as a notable improvement over their older BA models. Shove it in a tidy, attractive shell and sell it at a price that is similar to the current AST and they'd really wedge their foot in the door of the western market in a more meaningful way than they already have.
> 
> I'm always a big fan of rooting for the underdog, so I really do want them to succeed even more in less adventageous markets for them, so it's such a shame when their new products drop and it isn't something that would do that for them. Maybe they should try to partner with Crinacle or something for a special model for the western markets since he likes the Harmon 2019 curve quite a lot, understandably so. They can even keep some of the treble for that bright, twinkling high register, just keep things reasonable so it works for more genres.


I am sure Crinacle reached out to them to make a model between them but I don't know if one is in the works or not.


----------



## mndless

TheVortex said:


> I am sure Crinacle reached out to them to make a model between them but I don't know if one is in the works or not.


I would definitely look into buying one if they actually did make a collaborative model. His tunings might not be for everyone's tastes, but they're quite safe and should make for good listening. He's also pretty critical when it comes to the resolving power of the drivers being used, so it would end up being pretty special if he has a hand in it. I can't really justify the cost of his collaborative models from Fearless or Moondrop, but something in the $150-$200 mark is much more within range for what I'd spend on an interesting experiment.


----------



## RyuzakiL26 (Jun 28, 2021)

Is the KZ BA10 and AS12 still a recommended purchase? I am looking forward to replace my Blon BL-01 (needs expensive rig just to sound good) and TRN V90 (been wondering if V90s is a worthy upgrade but this is already OT) and give them as a gift.

I have KZ ZAX, Blon BL-03 and Penon Fan, and I use them equally per week 😅, and I heard good things about those two legends. Also, are they picky when it comes to cables?

Already found my answer XD AS12 and BA10


----------



## artatgray

mndless said:


> Just a single model like the AST with a Harmon curve tuning would do them well.



Interesting that you'd mentioned that. 

I've two KZ IEMs that I've EQed to Harman and I do enjoy them more this way. The IEMs in question? The ZAX and ASX. 

The ZAX had a reasonable tuning out of the box - nothing special but nothing to complain badly about - and the ASX was shockingly bad. After EQed to Harman, guess which one became my favorite? The ASX. I'm not kidding! 📱🎧🎶🤘🏾🤓🤘🏾


----------



## mndless (Jun 28, 2021)

artatgray said:


> Interesting that you'd mentioned that.
> 
> I've two KZ IEMs that I've EQed to Harman and I do enjoy them more this way. The IEMs in question? The ZAX and ASX.
> 
> The ZAX had a reasonable tuning out of the box - nothing special but nothing to complain badly about - and the ASX was shockingly bad. After EQed to Harman, guess which one became my favorite? The ASX. I'm not kidding! 📱🎧🎶🤘🏾🤓🤘🏾


Exactly. The only challenge is that software EQ can sometimes do funky things with your audio and you have to EQ them again on each playback device, which is just an absolute pain. I'd much rather figure a way out to get them tuned well passively so I don't have to bother with it. I'll EQ if I have to, but I'd much rather just buy earphones that don't stab me in the ears from the outset.

Edit: having said that, I've ordered new wax filters, tuning paper filters, and some foam and cotton tuning plugs to test out on my pair of CCA CKX to see if I can fix their treble manually. I'll post on here if I find success.


----------



## bhazard

Thanks for the ZAS impressions. I was hoping for an upgrade to the ZAX which I quite like.

What is a good IEM to get under $400 that massively improves on the ZAS? I want to start jumping tiers a bit and there are too many options out there. 16 drivers at an affordable cost is now a thing, but they don't compete fully in SQ with higher tier IEMs.


----------



## mndless

bhazard said:


> Thanks for the ZAS impressions. I was hoping for an upgrade to the ZAX which I quite like.
> 
> What is a good IEM to get under $400 that massively improves on the ZAS? I want to start jumping tiers a bit and there are too many options out there. 16 drivers at an affordable cost is now a thing, but they don't compete fully in SQ with higher tier IEMs.


At that price point you have quite a glut of options, like the Moondrop Blessing 2 in standard or Dusk tuning, the Mangird Tea, Thieaudio Legacy 5... There's quite a few choices. If you have a particular tuning curve you like, take a browse through some of the FR graph aggregation sites that people have kindly set up. Crinacle has an extremely large collection of graphs. Then you can see if anyone has experience with the ones whose graphs appeal to you to see if there's a reason not to consider them.


----------



## artatgray

mndless said:


> software EQ can sometimes do funky things with your audio and you have to EQ them again on each playback device, which is just an absolute pain.



My software EQs are of excellent quality - no "funky stuff" here. As for EQ setting transport across devices, easily accomplished by using the same EQ application on the devices involved and importing the settings from the initially setup device, or from a database on the Net. 

It's a button press, and even someone like me, a software engineer with 40+ years of experience now, could do it... 📱🎧🎶🤘🏾😏🤘🏾


----------



## mndless

artatgray said:


> My software EQs are of excellent quality - no "funky stuff" here. As for EQ setting transport across devices, easily accomplished by using the same EQ application on the devices involved and importing the settings from the initially setup device, or from a database on the Net.
> 
> It's a button press, and even someone like me, a software engineer with 40+ years of experience now, could do it... 📱🎧🎶🤘🏾😏🤘🏾


I'm glad you've had better success than I. I'm just happy I've got some flat tuned IEMs (GS Audio GD7B) that have a bit of upper treble roll-off for the sake of my hearing's longevity. They're like I strapped my set of Kef iQ90 to my head.


----------



## moisespr123

My favorite so far is the DQ6. Since the ZAS uses the same XUN driver, I may test it later. Any early comparisons between those 2?


----------



## cappuchino

moisespr123 said:


> My favorite so far is the DQ6. Since the ZAS uses the same XUN driver, I may test it later. Any early comparisons between those 2?


If you can wait for a week or so, I can give one to you 😁


----------



## MacAttack7

Summary from a translated thread on AST vs ASX.
https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2620772&extra=page=1&page=10
Summary ~ If you have ASX, you don't need to buy AST. Those who don't have all-iron earphones can enter.

Personal sense of hearing~

Burn-in 300++ KZ-AST VS KZ-ASX

KZ-AST compares the types and numbers of KZ-ASX BA.
=======================
KZ-AST (single side 12BA)
10Hz-40000Hz 30 Omega 103dB
30017s medium and high frequency moving iron 2 -2
29689s medium frequency moving iron 1 SAME
22955s low frequency moving iron 1 SAME
30095s high frequency moving iron 1 NEW
50024s high frequency moving iron matrix 6 NEW
30019s high frequency moving iron 1 NEW
==================== ===
KZ-ASX (single side 10BA)
10Hz-40000Hz 20 Omega 106dB
30017s BA x 4 +2
29689s BA x 1 SAME
22955s BA x 1 SAME
31736s BA x 4 OUT
============ ===========

Model ~
KZ-ASX 2000++
KZ-AST 300++

front end ~
4.4 ~ Sony wm1z (Music Sanctuary mod)
3.5 ~ Cayin N3Pro (Romi Audio mod) ~ tube super linear mode ~ Directly use Y plug A/B for simultaneous listening.

Wire ~
White Monster 300++
Big White Snake 300++
8 Twist Frenchman 300++

Ear Glue ~
Symbio Wn

High to Very High Frequency ~ ASX is more beautiful.
IF ~ The difference is minimal, and the front end is important.
Bottom frequency ~ AST is less than o left fire.
A sense of space ~ It takes eight Frenchmen to hear the difference. Especially in symphony, the French really has nothing to lose.

(I look forward to the 600+++ KZ-AST Zhonghui I will change my voice.)

Summary ~ If you have ASX, you don't need to buy AST. Those who don't have all-iron earphones can enter.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Thanks all for your replies and reccs. I decided to give the ZAX and CSN a roll for this next round. I have to admit that IMO the C12s are still a very good pairing for jazz recordings, and good all-rounders for classic rock and electro / synthwave. 

Orchestral pieces and fast heavy metal seem to be the C12s only real nemesis, which truth be told is true for a lot of audio gear. I'm curious to see how the DD compares in the ZAX and the CSN vs the C12. The extra soundstage of the ZAX and open tuning also seems novel. AFAICT, the Fiio FH5s is the premium competitor in that shell design. 

I tried the APO Harman curve for the C12 and hated it. Sounds really congested in the mids,  no top end sparkle, and bass is weak. Like those old single speaker radios from the 70s. Stock tuning was far better to my ears. My own curve of Hellfire tuning for max screech is where KZ delivers and I love this brand for that. Stevie Ray Vaughan's guitar is mind melting if you dare punching up 2k-8k. Glorious 😻


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Thanks all for your replies and reccs. I decided to give the ZAX and CSN a roll for this next round. I have to admit that IMO the C12s are still a very good pairing for jazz recordings, and good all-rounders for classic rock and electro / synthwave.
> 
> Orchestral pieces and fast heavy metal seem to be the C12s only real nemesis, which truth be told is true for a lot of audio gear. I'm curious to see how the DD compares in the ZAX and the CSN vs the C12. The extra soundstage of the ZAX and open tuning also seems novel. AFAICT, the Fiio FH5s is the premium competitor in that shell design.
> 
> I tried the APO Harman curve for the C12 and hated it. Sounds really congested in the mids,  no top end sparkle, and bass is weak. Like those old single speaker radios from the 70s. Stock tuning was far better to my ears. My own curve of Hellfire tuning for max screech is where KZ delivers and I love this brand for that. Stevie Ray Vaughan's guitar is mind melting if you dare punching up 2k-8k. Glorious 😻


Why not the CKX instead of the ZAX? It is more refined.


----------



## saldsald

moisespr123 said:


> My favorite so far is the DQ6. Since the ZAS uses the same XUN driver, I may test it later. Any early comparisons between those 2?


Very similar tuning but the ZAS being bassier and less bright, almost too dark.


----------



## voicemaster

bhazard said:


> Thanks for the ZAS impressions. I was hoping for an upgrade to the ZAX which I quite like.
> 
> What is a good IEM to get under $400 that massively improves on the ZAS? I want to start jumping tiers a bit and there are too many options out there. 16 drivers at an affordable cost is now a thing, but they don't compete fully in SQ with higher tier IEMs.


If you can stretch your budget to $500, I recommend Moondrop Variations.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Jun 28, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Why not the CKX instead of the ZAX? It is more refined.



two reasons: it wasn't really either/or, just what order. I am starting with the ZAX because I wanted to see if the semi-open / vented design of the ZAX actually relieves the air pressure on the ears. After a few hours with the C12 I've got to switch back to my AKGs. I don't think it's the tuning, but with the foams they give a good seal and provide a pretty healthy amount of bass when dialed up on electronica. I also don't necessarily need the noise isolation all the time from IEMs. It sounds like the bass might be a bit tighter on the ZAX relative to the C12 so I figured I'd give it a go and see what happens.  I'm also not _completely_ sold on the CKX.  One of the pure BA sets (CS16, ASX, AST, BA10 mebbe) might be worth a spin for the orchestra itch. Honestly I'm still enjoying the C12's as an all-rounder. I like the fire 🧨 but I'll admit that it is fatiguing.


----------



## saldsald (Jun 28, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> two reasons: it wasn't really either/or, just what order. I am starting with the ZAX because I wanted to see if the semi-open / vented design of the ZAX actually relieves the air pressure on the ears. After a few hours with the C12 I've got to switch back to my AKGs. I don't think it's the tuning, but with the foams they give a good seal and provide a pretty healthy amount of bass when dialed up on electronica. I also don't necessarily need the noise isolation all the time from IEMs. It sounds like the bass might be a bit tighter on the ZAX relative to the C12 so I figured I'd give it a go and see what happens.  I'm also not _completely_ sold on the CKX.  One of the pure BA sets (CS16, ASX, AST, BA10 mebbe) might be worth a spin for the orchestra itch. Honestly I'm still enjoying the C12's as an all-rounder. I like the fire 🧨 but I'll admit that it is fatiguing.


Don't have the ZAX with me now but the vent holes on the face plate as I tested back then was purely decorative. At least I tried putting tape on them and there was no sonic difference. Anyone else can confirm this?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> Don't have the ZAX with me now but the vent holes on the face plate as I tested back then was purely decorative. At least I tried putting tape on them and there was no sonic difference. Anyone else can confirm this?



Oh snap. Why did I think all that nonsense 😂 I think I mixed up Fiio's FH5s marketing with ZAX's looks.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> Summary from a translated thread on AST vs ASX.
> https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2620772&extra=page=1&page=10
> Summary ~ If you have ASX, you don't need to buy AST. Those who don't have all-iron earphones can enter.
> 
> ...


I disagree with my environment. 

Have both ASX AST, ASX is C+ to my grade AST is B+ ~ A (50 hours burn-in).

The 50024x6 makes huge difference once a proper gain level is sustained. Also #30019 which is also used in SKS makes non harsh peaks. 

ASX does make a more sharp treble so if that’s called beautiful, then the impression makes sense.  AST meanwhile makes non-sharp treble and is playing volume dependent, but it has very detailed layering backing up at the bottom.  

Violin Solo may sound more vivid on ASX, but AST handles full orchestral better.


----------



## artatgray (Jun 29, 2021)

saldsald said:


> At least I tried putting tape on them and there was no sonic difference. Anyone else can confirm this?



No, I won't confirm this as I've experienced a difference: the soundstage becomes somewhat more intimate with the vents covered. It's more noticeable in the treble region.


----------



## saldsald (Jun 29, 2021)

The ZAS actually sounds very good for orchestral and classical music, same spatial character as the AST thanks to the 50024s and especially good for strings. However, I am not liking it for pop or vocal music which can sound a bit congested as the music is usually more mid-centric and lack of sparkle as you may have to turn down the volume. It is really like a hybrid of the AST and CSN.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> orchestral and classical music, same spatial character as the AST thanks to the 50024s and especially good for strings. However, I am not liking it for pop or vocal music which can


 
How analytical is the CKX relative to the AST? Everything about CKX reads like it's ~ 90% of the ZAX. "smoother", "refined" etc. In terms of painters, I'm looking for more of a Pollock to add to the collection, not a Van Gogh, which seems to be what the CKX is striving toward. The DQ6 / CSN seems more like Warhol. Reviews of the ZAX read to me like Caravaggio - always portraying the scene in the same (v shaped) style, with lots of drama. Nice for "wow" moments walking through the museum. You probably aren't going to stomach it hanging over the buffet in the dining room. ASX is clearly the Francis Bacon of the group ... a beautiful horror.


----------



## Nimweth

Con


SpaceOperaVillain said:


> How analytical is the CKX relative to the AST? Everything about CKX reads like it's ~ 90% of the ZAX. "smoother", "refined" etc. In terms of painters, I'm looking for more of a Pollock to add to the collection, not a Van Gogh, which seems to be what the CKX is striving toward. The DQ6 / CSN seems more like Warhol. Reviews of the ZAX read to me like Caravaggio - always portraying the scene in the same (v shaped) style, with lots of drama. Nice for "wow" moments walking through the museum. You probably aren't going to stomach it hanging over the buffet in the dining room. ASX is clearly the Francis Bacon of the group ... a beautiful horror.


Continuing the painting analogy,  I would compare the CKX to Van Eyck: wonderful detail and perspective and gorgeous colour.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Nimweth said:


> Continuing the painting analogy,  I would compare the CKX to Van Eyck: wonderful detail and perspective and gorgeous colour.


Nice description - and still very much in the chiaroscuro style!

Where does that leave the CCA CS16 ... Klimt?


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Nice description - and still very much in the chiaroscuro style!
> 
> Where does that leave the CCA CS16 ... Klimt?


CS16 is very detailed and bright,  Bridget Riley, perhaps?


----------



## G777

saldsald said:


> Don't have the ZAX with me now but the vent holes on the face plate as I tested back then was purely decorative. At least I tried putting tape on them and there was no sonic difference. Anyone else can confirm this?


Courtesy of @darmanastartes:


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## voicemaster

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> How analytical is the CKX relative to the AST? Everything about CKX reads like it's ~ 90% of the ZAX. "smoother", "refined" etc. In terms of painters, I'm looking for more of a Pollock to add to the collection, not a Van Gogh, which seems to be what the CKX is striving toward. The DQ6 / CSN seems more like Warhol. Reviews of the ZAX read to me like Caravaggio - always portraying the scene in the same (v shaped) style, with lots of drama. Nice for "wow" moments walking through the museum. You probably aren't going to stomach it hanging over the buffet in the dining room. ASX is clearly the Francis Bacon of the group ... a beautiful horror.


I don't have a clue on how to compare an IEM to a piece of art, but in term of value and build quality, the CKX is better than the ZAX. Sound is subjective, but they are more like 95% the same imho. Can't say which one is better, but it is more like preference. If you don't have the ZAX and CKX to compare with, you won't even think about those differences. Even when playing them both at the same time (one in each ear), it is very hard to notice the differences.


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## saldsald (Jun 29, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> How analytical is the CKX relative to the AST? Everything about CKX reads like it's ~ 90% of the ZAX. "smoother", "refined" etc. In terms of painters, I'm looking for more of a Pollock to add to the collection, not a Van Gogh, which seems to be what the CKX is striving toward. The DQ6 / CSN seems more like Warhol. Reviews of the ZAX read to me like Caravaggio - always portraying the scene in the same (v shaped) style, with lots of drama. Nice for "wow" moments walking through the museum. You probably aren't going to stomach it hanging over the buffet in the dining room. ASX is clearly the Francis Bacon of the group ... a beautiful horror.


I think of all these IEMs you mentioned I only find the DQ6 slightly not analytical enough as it is the only pair with no BA responsible for the treble (it is the 10 mm DD doing it all.

AST vs CKX I think it is more about preference than technicality - Flat tuning with boosted bass and earlier treble roll off vs V tuning and all BAs vs hybrid. The AST still has quite enough treble even the FR suggests it doesn't.

I am not too familiar with painting but I won't say the DQ6/CSN is a Warhol. Maybe they are still like Van Gogh.


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## 1clearhead

My long awaited review of the *CCA CA2 *budget surprise!

Check them out at the link below...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/post-16432473

Enjoy!   

-Clear


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## forestitalia (Jun 30, 2021)

saldsald said:


> I think of all these IEMs you mentioned I only find the DQ6 slightly not analytical enough as it is the only pair with no BA responsible for the treble (it is the 10 mm DD doing it all.
> 
> AST vs CKX I think it is more about preference than technicality - Flat tuning with boosted bass and earlier treble roll off vs V tuning and all BAs vs hybrid. The AST still has quite enough treble even the FR suggests it doesn't.
> 
> I am not too familiar with painting but I won't say the DQ6/CSN is a Warhol. Maybe they are still like Van Gogh.


The FR doesn't matter, then you listen the AST, and there are no treble.


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## mndless

forestitalia said:


> The FR dorsn't matter, then you listen the AST, and there are no treble.


It also depends a bit on how sensitive to treble you are and the character of the drivers producing the treble. There's also the balance against the rest of the FR to take into account. When you've got loads of bass and slightly recessed treble, it can end up being overwhelmed by the bass response even if it is producing the requisite sound.


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## saldsald (Jun 30, 2021)

forestitalia said:


> The FR dorsn't matter, then you listen the AST, and there are no treble.


Not sure if you are a cable believer, you need a brighter cable or source for the AST. I understand why you have that impression.


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## mndless

saldsald said:


> Not sure if you are a cable believer, you need a brighter cable or source for the AST. I understand why you have that impression.


It always feels a bit counter-intuitive to me when you need to cable roll IEMs where you'll end up needing to spend a quarter the cost of the IEM for a replacement cable to tune the sound into something particularly acceptable. The cheapest decent quality silver coated or pure silver cables I've seen have been around $25, which is near enough quarter the cost of the AST. As contrary to this thread's purpose of promoting the brand, I think I'd rather just spend the combined value on an IEM that doesn't require me to faff about with swapping out the cables to make it worthwhile.


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## saldsald (Jun 30, 2021)

mndless said:


> It always feels a bit counter-intuitive to me when you need to cable roll IEMs where you'll end up needing to spend a quarter the cost of the IEM for a replacement cable to tune the sound into something particularly acceptable. The cheapest decent quality silver coated or pure silver cables I've seen have been around $25, which is near enough quarter the cost of the AST. As contrary to this thread's purpose of promoting the brand, I think I'd rather just spend the combined value on an IEM that doesn't require me to faff about with swapping out the cables to make it worthwhile.


You are quite right about that and that's why some models such as the ZAX is so popular in particular. People often look for clarity (treble quantity) first and maybe the AST really isn't for everyone but those who're looking for an IEM with a different tuning and have different cables for the rolling. Chi-fi is a journey not a destination.

Edit: the stock cable actually pairs with the AST quite nicely and I hear a lot of treble still. It may be the source not bright enough have enough amping power or maybe wrong eartips.


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## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> Edit: the stock cable actually pairs with the AST quite nicely and I hear a lot of treble still. It may be the source not bright enough have enough amping power or maybe wrong eartips.


 
Agree with you - in general for IEMs, tips are definitely the biggest variables to my ears. I tried tip rolling my old shure's and landed on their brand of foam "olive" tips. The silicone tips never sounded good to me. With the C12s, the starline tips and KZ foams are surprisingly similar, where as the generic included silicone tips sound a bit harsh to me.

Factoring in the wiring and/or cables is the HiFi game/debate since time eternal! I think where cables are concerned, regardless of whatever claims may be about improvements over plain copper, a $25-$50 cable will be better constructed and have materially fewer defects than a mass produced cable with average (or poor) materials. I've always thought that the improvement in tolerances and quality control were worth the extra cost of more expensive cables, within reason. After that, for all of the debates about perceptible harmonic differences between exotic materials I am wise enough to avoid offering strict opinions on. I say: buy in quantity, and lets all be happy that we have choices.  

The fun part of chifi is that the cost/benefit ratio is so wildly uneven relative to name brand and high-end custom gear. Tip rolling and cable swapping is an exercise that manufacturers have already undergone to average out the sound for all genres to all ears. For a lot of these ChiFi series products, I think it's right to approach these units as customs or bespoke units that will need tuning here and there to be at their best, which is definitely half the fun. These C12s I've been getting used to are considered old hat in this forum, but they are still miles better than a lot of gear I've paid north of $500 for in previous decades. I'm looking forward to accumulating a few more sets and more accessories over the next months to play with.


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## forestitalia

saldsald said:


> You are quite right about that and that's why some models such as the ZAX is so popular in particular. People often look for clarity (treble quantity) first and maybe the AST really isn't for everyone but those who're looking for an IEM with a different tuning and have different cables for the rolling. Chi-fi is a journey not a destination.
> 
> Edit: the stock cable actually pairs with the AST quite nicely and I hear a lot of treble still. It may be the source not bright enough have enough amping power or maybe wrong eartips.


What source are you using?


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## lushmelody

my AST is coming bc apparently its the sweet spot for treble sensitives. also my first KZ and full BA set, so i hope it wont disappoint

about tip and cable rolling: has anyone tried AST with bgvp w01/spiral dots/tennmak whirlwind tips? i see a lot of synergy potential


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## saldsald

forestitalia said:


> What source are you using?


M11Pro (bright source) and zx507(warm) no problem with AST.


----------



## MacAttack7

lushmelody said:


> my AST is coming bc apparently its the sweet spot for treble sensitives. also my first KZ and full BA set, so i hope it wont disappoint
> 
> about tip and cable rolling: has anyone tried AST with bgvp w01/spiral dots/tennmak whirlwind tips? i see a lot of synergy potential


I'm not sure if the shape is similar to ASX, but if it is then I find SpinFit CP360's lead to a perfect fit.
Not sure how they affect the sound.
The stock tips work also, but I usually have to wiggle them around a bit to get the perfect seal, but once I have the seal they stay that way with no problem.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm not sure if the shape is similar to ASX, but if it is then I find SpinFit CP360's lead to a perfect fit.
> Not sure how they affect the sound.
> The stock tips work also, but I usually have to wiggle them around a bit to get the perfect seal, but once I have the seal they stay that way with no problem.



I've been using Spinfit CP360 since day one with my AST and I didn't even bother trying to use the stock ones. I can say that the CP360 is the perfect seal and comfort.


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## lushmelody

sadly i don't have a CP360 pair. they seem so comfortable and the nozzle width not treble reducing like CP100. ordering rn


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## RCracer777

lushmelody said:


> about tip and cable rolling: has anyone tried AST with bgvp w01/spiral dots/tennmak whirlwind tips? i see a lot of synergy potential


While I don't have a AST I can say that the bgvp W01 won't work as the nozzle of the new KZ shell (AST, DQ6, ASF and ASX) is too narrow for it to properly stay in place. 
Some tape might help with that.


----------



## MacAttack7

lushmelody said:


> sadly i don't have a CP360 pair. they seem so comfortable and the nozzle width not treble reducing like CP100. ordering rn


They work well with the ASX because it clips into my ear so well that it pushes the nozzle into my ear.
I think the taller CP100's would either hurt from getting pushed in too far, or they would prevent the perfect fit I have with the shorter CP360's.
Everyone has a different ear shape though, so it's hard to say which one is best.


----------



## voicemaster

mndless said:


> It also depends a bit on how sensitive to treble you are and the character of the drivers producing the treble. There's also the balance against the rest of the FR to take into account. When you've got loads of bass and slightly recessed treble, it can end up being overwhelmed by the bass response even if it is producing the requisite sound.


Actually when I listened to my ZAX these days, I couldn't believe how much "treble" it shoved into my ear. It is almost unbearable and sound unnatural, but I get used to it pretty quickly. That's why I like CKX better.


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## SybilLance (Jul 1, 2021)

KZ's *AZ09+ZAX* combo is a winner!




Been listening to this for more than a week, with my trusty iPhone 6+ thru the Audioforge EQ app as source.



Spoiler: KZ ZAX Impressions



I have a black TRN 16-core cable with QDC connectors on hand so I used these for better ergonomics and aesthetics. I've never been able to hear any audible differences between and among different cables.

I "burn in" my headphones by listening to them out of the box.

Also changed the stock tips with large, soft, wide-bore silicone tips and with these I perceive the ZAX as a refined, mature iteration of the ZS10 Pro, which I have. Much less of a V-shape. A tad less bass quantity but which translates into better quality; resonance has a more organic feel, with better control. However, the ZAX's relatively stubby nozzle could be felt through the soft silicone tips and over time became a bother. My solution was to place a tiny silicone O-ring over the nozzle first before attaching the tip... _et voila_! Ideal seal was achieved and the bass became even tighter and fuller, with superb dynamics. Mids have less of a trough, I think, but the rise into the upper mids is not as steep, so there's less or none of that KZ characteristic shoutiness with most vocal tracks. Still the upper mids and treble are detailed and have that natural timbre, with percussions sounding just right. No sibilance in the usual range but once in a while a soupçon of harshness, particularly with reed instruments, comes across. Quite fatiguing with certain albums.







As regards stage, there's this sort of field or halo of sound extending just outside my head and receding past my ears, oddly reminiscent of one of those horseshoe-shaped neck pillows for use in your car. The image—delineation or separation, placement and layer of musical instruments—in this stage seems defined and accurate enough, but not that stark or laser precise. Note that I couldn't hear anything beyond 14.5 KHz.

Directly coming from the CCA C12 (sporting SpinFit CP360 tips) I’d say both sound very similar; but the ZAX, despite having less BA components, apparently improves on the former. There are no sharp edges on its shell, for one. Stage is more enveloping with the ZAX with depth about the same. Imaging is more or less even. In terms of bass resonance and precision the ZAX is slightly better. I think the mids of the ZAX are more balanced relative to its bass and treble counterparts compared to the C12. In certain female vocal tracks, those S, T, Z or other fricative and affricate consonant sounds that we refer to as sibilance sometimes make their presence unfavorably felt with the C12. As mentioned I don’t hear that with the ZAX. C12 treble seems more airy and extended though at the expense of more fatigue during long listening sessions (without EQ for both).

Using foobar2000 out of Windows 10 I could listen to the ZAX through a Topping E30-L30 stack reclining in my easy chair at low to moderate volumes for hours.



*KZ AZ09 + KZ ZAX Impressions*

KZ officially refers to the AZ09 as “HD Bluetooth Module Upgrade Cable”. Since @cappuchino has comprehensively reviewed the AZ09 (he brought it to my attention—so Thanks!) I won't anymore repeat technical details unless relevant. cappuchino also heretofore mentioned (also KZ's ads and the retail box itself) that the AZ09 utilizes the AAC codec and has the latest Bluetooth 5.2 version.



Spoiler: AAC and Bluetooth 5.2



Utilizing AAC seems not self-limiting since AAC is one of the most commonly supported Bluetooth codecs in the wireless headphone industry. It is supported by both Apple and Android devices. It is the default audio compression codec used by YouTube and Apple’s iTunes. It is native to and optimized with Apple devices.

Some 3rd party tests however show that implementation of AAC for Apple phones and tablets is better than that in Android devices, mainly because of Android's Energy Aware Scheduling (EAS) algorithms. And each Android device has its own unique way of encoding AAC, which add to the wide variance of efficiency among them but that in best case scenarios still are inferior to iOS implementation. Perhaps this could also be attributed to low-quality hardware audio encoders embedded in various Android phone chipsets, like in many budget smartphones and not-so-budget ones that emphasize camera features in the ongoing megapixel wars. Hopefully the latest Qualcomm Snapdragon SOCs have much higher-quality AAC encoders built in.

https://www.google.com.ph/amp/s/www...-guide-to-bluetooth-headphones-aac-20296/amp/
https://m.habr.com/en/post/456182/
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/audio/mobile-audio

Since the AZ09 has the latest Bluetooth 5.2 version, it would be interesting to see how it pairs with a phone that also has Bluetooth 5.2. Currently there are at least 39, all Android. As to whether these already have the high-quality low-power LC3 codec, an associated feature of Bluetooth 5.2's LE Audio, I don't know. At the moment for me the bottom line reality is: AZ09 is best used with iOS devices; so I use mine with my trusty iPhone 6+, which is no slouch in the audio department and can still hold its own even with newer Android phones as regards transparency, at least for Apple's intentional 16-bit/48KHz limit.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6-plus.htm#measurements
https://www.bluetooth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Bluetooth_5.2_Feature_Overview.pdf



The AZ09 has no AptX codec or any of its various iterations. There are only 2 audio settings, standard and high performance. KZ does not really state what involves high performance but hints it has to do with Bluetooth 5.2's low power and high efficiency audio and transmission components with purported improvements in range and stability, audio resolution and latency. When you open the charging case the modules automatically search for compatible transmitting or previously paired devices. The LED indicator on the case lights green. When its orange it's time to recharge the case via a USB C slot at the side. An automated voice notifies you when you're paired with a source device. Pressing the buttons on the modules 3X in succession will switch you to either of the 2 audio settings. That's all I needed to know.

With the ZAX-AZ09 combo paired with the iPhone 6+ and the Audioforge EQ app playing 16-bit/44.1 KHz FLAC files, I apply a modest equalization at ~3KHz and 8KHz to remove the occasional stridency using the app's parametric equalizer. The first time I listened I immediately noticed that the ZAX stage became sort of nebulous and that imaging lost focus. Further there was this weird panning of instruments. For example drums sounding directly at one ear would suddenly pop and sound directly at the other ear. After much consternation I discovered that the Crossfeed feature of the EQ app was somehow set to its max negative setting! So I slowly added crossfeed (again thru the app) until I got to ~ 8-10%. Everything became defined and the stage became somewhat compressed towards the front, with drums now sounding just so slightly forward of my ears, as if I'm listening at the sweet spot of a pair of stereo speakers. Do note this is still pretty much a head stage. Another positive: Imaging is now like it is with the ZAX wired. At this setting and with the AZ09 at high performance mode, save for the altered sound stage, for the life of me I could barely discern any other appreciable difference between wired and wireless. If I do listen very closely using my reference tracks there seems to be a sort of roll-off at both ends of _my_ audible frequency spectrum. There's also a sort of "softening" to the bass quality, confined to the sub-bass which I mainly remedy with EQ. Come to think of it, with my mind not focused on critically fleshing out fine details and such but simply on listening to music, AZ09 on standard mode is more than adequate. Less battery drain, too. And btw I couldn't hear any hiss from the ZAX on either modes.

In _my_ unique user case, the AZ09 as a whole is most liberating; it also has the ability to disappear between the music I listen to and the IEM it's attached to in my ears—the very capable ZAX—when I'm up and about doing all the usual senior-citizen things I do in my house. Head-bobbing, finger-snapping, shoulder and hip-swaying included. That also means I very seldom get any dropouts unless I move to and beyond the edges of its range.

Welll... I do have one complaint, which is the too loud voice prompts. That first blast of metallic "Connect-aid" is very disconcerting. Fortunately I'm growing accustomed to them and I always smile when I hear that proud female proclamation, "High pee-foh-mens mode."

KZ's AZ09 bluetooth modules truly are a pleasant surprise. There's a certain raw 20th century beauty to them. They're light, comfortable and stay in place behind the ears. And the rest of the AZ09's performance parameters jibe with what are being represented by KZ in its ads, especially battery life(!). This morning I started listening with the AZ09-ZAX— in standard mode and at around 95% charge having used it for a while the night before—at around 5:30 while puttering in the kitchen. Past 9:30 the low battery voice warnings began. This at 1 or 2 taps (depending on music) short of the mid-volume level of the iPhone on the kitchen counter.

Though it seems to have flown under the radar of most, I deem the AZ09 _THE_ TWS option for KZ and CCA Type-C wired IEMs, which comprises almost the entire catalog of their latter models. Here's the thing: as regards future-proofing, the AZ09 is cheaper than its dedicated TWS Bluetooth 5.2 KZ/CCA siblings like the Z3, the Z1 Pro, the CC1 and the SKS; *PLUS* you have the latitude and choice to connect to other great-sounding KZ/CCA IEMs.

As for me, I now have something that's really very good to listen to for extended periods while moving about without the discomfort and inconvenience of fit, weight or wires. And—with both the ZAX and AZ09 costing me only $59 in total—without holes in my pockets.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm not sure if the shape is similar to ASX, but if it is then I find SpinFit CP360's lead to a perfect fit.
> Not sure how they affect the sound.
> The stock tips work also, but I usually have to wiggle them around a bit to get the perfect seal, but once I have the seal they stay that way with no problem.


I ended up to CP360 too. I was trying to differentiate AST with other IEM by using vocal boost CP100+ but in the end, I started to feel uncomfortable with the unnaturally tuned overall tone with CP100+. CP360 is natural and better fit, with clear imaging on AST


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## Sebulr (Jul 1, 2021)

SybilLance said:


> KZ's *AZ09+ZAX* combo is a winner!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love mine too. I can detect a slight hiss when nothing is playing with my zs10 pros, but virtually every bluetooth device does this. I almost exclusively use them with my zs10 pros, as the acrylic shroud is wearing out on mine, so I keep them attached now.

I posted something about them being "grabby" with the bluetooth connection, in that it keeps connecting obnoxiously when using other bluetooth sets, when walking into range of them in the tws thread. This is my only complaint. To mitigate this, I often have to forge the pairing with my phone, and relearn the pairing when I want to use them. Do you get this problem to? I also find that they are more comfortable than the TRN bt20 because the ear hooks are longer so don't pinch as much.

I haven't had the high performance mode activated yet, I might have to have a fiddle with them, just to see if it works, although I generally don't care about latency.


----------



## scratchmassive

Sad news... I discovered this week that my beloved ZAX has developed an issue where the left earpiece is maybe 1/4 volume of the right. Even though I've been nothing but careful with them as they're my best IEMs. I bought them from Linsoul, but it feels like they are going to make warranty claim a fight - I have to provide photo/video evidence of the issue (?) and mail it back at my cost. Any ideas about what I can do?


----------



## nraymond

scratchmassive said:


> Sad news... I discovered this week that my beloved ZAX has developed an issue where the left earpiece is maybe 1/4 volume of the right. Even though I've been nothing but careful with them as they're my best IEMs. I bought them from Linsoul, but it feels like they are going to make warranty claim a fight - I have to provide photo/video evidence of the issue (?) and mail it back at my cost. Any ideas about what I can do?


You could produce a video for them though it will require three devices - one to play back white noise, one to act as a dB sound meter, and one as a video recording device. There are free apps for phones that can give you a realtime dB meter for iOS and Android. If you put an earphone next to the mic on a phone, you'll get a dB reading. You can download a 15 minute white noise track from here:

https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_whitenoise.php

Play that MP3 on an audio source hooked up to the ZAX and then record a video showing that when you hold each ZAX earphone next to the mic the dB reading is different. Also swap the left and right headphone cables so that you demonstrate it's not the cable that's defective, but the ZAX.


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## SybilLance

Sebulr said:


> I love mine too. I can detect a slight hiss when nothing is playing with my zs10 pros, but virtually every bluetooth device does this. I almost exclusively use them with my zs10 pros, as the acrylic shroud is wearing out on mine, so I keep them attached now.
> 
> I posted something about them being "grabby" with the bluetooth connection, in that it keeps connecting obnoxiously when using other bluetooth sets, when walking into range of them in the tws thread. This is my only complaint. To mitigate this, I often have to forge the pairing with my phone, and relearn the pairing when I want to use them. Do you get this problem to? I also find that they are more comfortable than the TRN bt20 because the ear hooks are longer so don't pinch as much.
> 
> I haven't had the high performance mode activated yet, I might have to have a fiddle with them, just to see if it works, although I generally don't care about latency.



You mean it will attempt to connect with another device within range even if both have not been previously paired, in the process affecting or interrupting transmission from its current paired device? No, haven’t experienced anything like that. All Bluetooth transmitters in my devices that have been paired with the AZ09—the iPhone, iPad, Windows 10 laptop and Chromebook—are always turned off unless needed. Although the AZ09 is always active when turned on, I thought all along it will only attempt to connect with other Bluetooth devices when the transmitter with which it is paired is turned off. I’ve used the AZ09 with others in the house also having active Bluetooth connections of their own within range, and its connection remained stable.

As regards the hiss, it only becomes audible to me when nothing is playing and the iPhone’s volume is at full—and with the iPhone 6+ that’s at 0 dB. If music suddenly starts playing at that level it will immediately blast any earwax off your ears. 

Also, I could hardly tell the difference between standard and high performance mode myself unless I'm playing certain reference tracks.


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## Sebulr

SybilLance said:


> You mean it will attempt to connect with another device within range even if both have not been previously paired, in the process affecting or interrupting transmission from its current paired device? No, haven’t experienced anything like that. All Bluetooth transmitters in my devices that have been paired with the AZ09—the iPhone, iPad, Windows 10 laptop and Chromebook—are always turned off unless needed. Although the AZ09 is always active when turned on, I thought all along it will only attempt to connect with other Bluetooth devices when the transmitter with which it is paired is turned off. I’ve used the AZ09 with others in the house also having active Bluetooth connections of their own within range, and its connection remained stable.
> 
> As regards the hiss, it only becomes audible to me when nothing is playing and the iPhone’s volume is at full—and with the iPhone 6+ that’s at 0 dB. If music suddenly starts playing at that level it will immediately blast any earwax off your ears.
> 
> Also, I could hardly tell the difference between standard and high performance mode myself unless I'm playing certain reference tracks.


Yes it suddenly takes over the connection if I am listening to my bomakers if I wander into range. I guess they jostle in my bag and activate the az09 and it hijacks my connection. My workaround is to unpair the device and re-pair it once I want to use them. My car stereo also does this, but in that case it is a wanted feature and not a bug. Apart from that the AZ09 is pretty much perfect for me.


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## MacAttack7

Well I got my AST's today!
All I can say is that I'm done buying earphones for a long time.
I bought a few different KZ/CCA models lately mostly because I love the fit.
If you put the ASX, ASF, AST, DQ6, CSN on a table and told me to pick the best and worst I don't think I'd have a clue.
My favorite is the ASX/ASF because they fit my ear perfectly.

If someone has a specific piece of music where I can without a doubt hear a difference in quality between all these please let me know.
I'd like to hear it. Maybe once I hear something specific a light bulb will go on and I'll appreciate this game better.


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## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Well I got my AST's today!
> All I can say is that I'm done buying earphones for a long time.
> I bought a few different KZ/CCA models lately mostly because I love the fit.
> If you put the ASX, ASF, AST, DQ6, CSN on a table and told me to pick the best and worst I don't think I'd have a clue.
> ...


So you mean you love the AST?


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## mndless (Jul 1, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> Well I got my AST's today!
> All I can say is that I'm done buying earphones for a long time.
> I bought a few different KZ/CCA models lately mostly because I love the fit.
> If you put the ASX, ASF, AST, DQ6, CSN on a table and told me to pick the best and worst I don't think I'd have a clue.
> ...



In the opening, listen for the distant chimes being gently swept through and the sound of a lightly struck triangle. Also listen for reed flutter on the bassoon and key actuation sounds from it. About two thirds of the way through, listen for a rainstick being turned.


This one is mostly to check how well tuned the treble gain is, as this song can get kinda stabby if your treble isn't tuned well. It's also a nice test of the treble driver agility and decay.


This one has lots of beautiful marimba playing to test the upper mids/low treble timbre, some double bass playing to test midbass performance, and some rain noises and strings to test treble. It also transitions to synthetic bass drops about halfway through to test bass and sub-bass performance a bit. I like how this song seems to have everything, even cymbals.


Female vocals test. See if you can notice what appears to be the singer moving closer and further away from the microphone during the vocals. Not just that she's occasionally whispering, it's how it is recorded where it sometimes sounds closer to your head and at other times much further away. It's an interesting song. It also has a thumping synthesized bassline to test out your bass drivers.


----------



## MacAttack7

mndless said:


> In the opening, listen for the distant chimes being gently swept through and the sound of a lightly struck triangle. Also listen for reed flutter on the bassoon and key actuation sounds from it. About two thirds of the way through, listen for a rainstick being turned.
> 
> 
> This one is mostly to check how well tuned the treble gain is, as this song can get kinda stabby if your treble isn't tuned well. It's also a nice test of the treble driver agility and decay.
> ...



Ok...I'll give these a try later tonight.
Whenever I do this though everyone earphone I have sounds good to me.
I like the AST. 

I just have zero idea if they are actually better than my other ones. 
I feel like one of those wine experts that they blindfold, and they can't tell the difference between a $5,000 bottle and a $10 bottle from Costco.
There are a couple reviewers I watch that seem really honest though, and I believe they hear a difference, so I think it's just me not knowing what to listen for.


----------



## scratchmassive

nraymond said:


> You could produce a video for them though it will require three devices - one to play back white noise, one to act as a dB sound meter, and one as a video recording device. There are free apps for phones that can give you a realtime dB meter for iOS and Android. If you put an earphone next to the mic on a phone, you'll get a dB reading. You can download a 15 minute white noise track from here:
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_whitenoise.php
> 
> Play that MP3 on an audio source hooked up to the ZAX and then record a video showing that when you hold each ZAX earphone next to the mic the dB reading is different. Also swap the left and right headphone cables so that you demonstrate it's not the cable that's defective, but the ZAX.



Thanks! I recorded a video as you suggested and am able to continue with a warranty claim. 

Though it looks like I have to pay for shipping both ways, which will be nearly half the cost of the IEMs  I think I'll have to use Amazon in future for better security even though its a little more expensive. Is that what everyone else does?


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> Well I got my AST's today!
> All I can say is that I'm done buying earphones for a long time.
> I bought a few different KZ/CCA models lately mostly because I love the fit.
> If you put the ASX, ASF, AST, DQ6, CSN on a table and told me to pick the best and worst I don't think I'd have a clue.
> ...



Her voice can trigger those peak on most KZ iems. Her voice can sound harsh and piercing.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> Her voice can trigger those peak on most KZ iems. Her voice can sound harsh and piercing.



Her voice sounds great on my GS Audio GD7B, but it doesn't have any treble gain to speak of, so that should have been a given anyway.


----------



## mndless (Jul 1, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> Ok...I'll give these a try later tonight.
> Whenever I do this though everyone earphone I have sounds good to me.
> I like the AST.
> 
> ...


As with a great many things, it's really just chasing diminishing returns and aesthetics. As long as the guts are good and they haven't made any grave tuning sins, even comparatively inexpensive IEMs can sound absolutely stunning. It's why I like using tracks where you're listening for things that are challenging to resolve, like chimes, triangle strikes, reed flap, or key actuations. Things that can easily be obscured by overzealous bass tuning or made over-prominent through massive treble gain. After that, it's really down to personal preference to determine "does this sound good to me?" Though there are certain instruments that, if the IEM isn't tuned properly, just sound wrong. Cymbals and drums are usually in that group. If you want a nice song with a drum intro with some very quiet cymbal strikes, try this one:




The intro to this song also has a fairly delicate strained high note with some string plucking and scraping filling in under it while occasional bass notes drop in dramatically with that strained high note continuing in the background. If it sounds like a constant tone, then your treble drivers aren't good enough.



If it helps, I can tell a difference is resolving power between my CCA CKX and GS Audio GT7B, but it's not as massive a difference as you might expect given the fact that the GT7B is near enough three times the cost. Mostly it's down to tuning, which is much more of a preferential thing, as long as it isn't obscuring things.


----------



## voicemaster (Jul 2, 2021)

Switching back and forth between AST and Variations, at around 1:50, it can get pretty fuzzy because the guitars and the singer kinda clash each other and if the IEM just putting them all together, its going to sound really bad. The AST with all those BAs sounds messy compared to Variations where everything is well placed and you can hear each of guitars, bass and singer clearly. Also at around 3:35, there is a cow bell on the left side. On the AST, the sound is one note (ting sound) and very thin with no resonance whatsoever whereas on the Variations, it sounds airy and I can hear the resonance clearly. The cymbals sound harsh on the AST.


----------



## mndless (Jul 2, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Switching back and forth between AST and Variations, at around 1:50, it can get pretty fuzzy because the guitars and the singer kinda clash each other and if the IEM just putting them all together, its going to sound really bad. The AST with all those BAs sounds messy compared to Variations where everything is well placed and you can hear each of guitars, bass and singer clearly. Also at around 3:35, there is a cow bell on the left side. On the AST, the sound is one note (ting sound) and very thin with no resonance whatsoever whereas on the Variations, it sounds airy and I can hear the resonance clearly. The cymbals sound harsh on the AST.



The GD7B can just manage to resolve the vocals against the guitar tracks, but as you said, they're basically occupying the same place in the FR, so it's very easy for them to be muddled together. The cymbal that she's using for the cowbell sound also sounds relatively flat. There's differences in the sound based on how and where she's striking it, but the resonance is fairly short, probably because it's upside down and being damped by the spacer between it and the cymbal beneath it. I expect something with an EST driver may be necessary to pick up on the harmonics of that, just for the added agility that the even thinner membrane offers.

Just for contrast, here's their studio recording for that track:


I think the vocals are more cleanly separated from the backing track, but the cowbell-esque cymbal is much more muted and comes in much earlier in the track, around 3:00 in, and sounds somehow even more muffled, but with a better, slightly hollower tone.


----------



## MacAttack7

I made a youtube playlist of all the videos you guys posted, so that'll give me something to do.
I still have no idea how I'll ever know what the difference is between the ASX and AST.
I read reviews where people said the AST improved over the ASX is just about every way, and I just don't know what they're talking about.


----------



## mndless (Jul 2, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> I made a youtube playlist of all the videos you guys posted, so that'll give me something to do.
> I still have no idea how I'll ever know what the difference is between the ASX and AST.
> I read reviews where people said the AST improved over the ASX is just about every way, and I just don't know what they're talking about.


Having more drivers mashed into a driver array can give the sound engineers a better shot at keeping them operating within their optimal range to keep THD at a minimum while the SPL sum to an amount comparable to a single coupled driver operating at its limits with more distortion. Keeping the drivers closer to their nominal state can also improve the driver's agility, which is what they were hoping to achieve with their missile launcher array of BA drivers in the low-mid treble. I don't own the AST, so I can't attest to how successful this attempt was, I just know the theory behind it.

Another song to add to your growing playlist. about 10-15 second in she hits a sustained high belted note that will reveal a lot about how your mid treble is tuned. Poor tuning=stabbed eardrums. Good luck.


----------



## voicemaster

mndless said:


> The GD7B can just manage to resolve the vocals against the guitar tracks, but as you said, they're basically occupying the same place in the FR, so it's very easy for them to be muddled together. The cymbal that she's using for the cowbell sound also sounds relatively flat. There's differences in the sound based on how and where she's striking it, but the resonance is fairly short, probably because it's upside down and being damped by the spacer between it and the cymbal beneath it. I expect something with an EST driver may be necessary to pick up on the harmonics of that, just for the added agility that the even thinner membrane offers.
> 
> Just for contrast, here's their studio recording for that track:
> 
> ...



I couldn't believe the jump in sound quality will be that much tho it is expected as the price difference is like 5 times. On the Variations, you can hear the cowbell really clearly and spacious.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> I couldn't believe the jump in sound quality will be that much tho it is expected as the price difference is like 5 times. On the Variations, you can hear the cowbell really clearly and spacious.


Yeah, Moondrop is also really good at tuning their IEMs, as noted by the fact that they manage to get single DD units to sound as good as they do. My GD7B was $152 when I got it, so I'm quite content with its performance at that pricepoint. Not that it'll stop me from eventually picking up the EST equipped IEMs from GS Audio whenever they become available.


----------



## voicemaster

Here is another my favorite song when trying IEM. There are a lot of musical instruments playing at the same time so it can be quite hectic. The song is pretty epic too.


----------



## voicemaster

mndless said:


> Yeah, Moondrop is also really good at tuning their IEMs, as noted by the fact that they manage to get single DD units to sound as good as they do. My GD7B was $152 when I got it, so I'm quite content with its performance at that pricepoint. Not that it'll stop me from eventually picking up the EST equipped IEMs from GS Audio whenever they become available.


Yes those EST drivers are quite different sounding than BA and DD. It sounds reminds me of how planar headphone's treble sound. Acoustic guitar sounds absolutely amazing through it.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> Yes those EST drivers are quite different sounding than BA and DD. It sounds reminds me of how planar headphone's treble sound. Acoustic guitar sounds absolutely amazing through it.


I was blown away by the sound quality of my friend's Kinera NanNa 2.0 when I pushed them with high gain balanced mode from my HiBy R3 Pro Saber. My GD7B get me about 70% of the way there, but there's no accounting for the absence of those EST drivers. They just give so much air and lightness to the treble, it's incredible. But they absolutely require a backing driver to bleed some weight into the crossover point in the low-mid treble or they would lack adequate impactfulness.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> Here is another my favorite song when trying IEM. There are a lot of musical instruments playing at the same time so it can be quite hectic. The song is pretty epic too.



Recording gain on that vid is a teeny bit low, so volume needs to be increased compared to what I was listening at before to really get the most out of it. Sounds fantastic, though. The wooden flute does an interesting act as a backing to the vocals, kinda blending straight into them. Very cool.


----------



## voicemaster

mndless said:


> I was blown away by the sound quality of my friend's Kinera NanNa 2.0 when I pushed them with high gain balanced mode from my HiBy R3 Pro Saber. My GD7B get me about 70% of the way there, but there's no accounting for the absence of those EST drivers. They just give so much air and lightness to the treble, it's incredible. But they absolutely require a backing driver to bleed some weight into the crossover point in the low-mid treble or they would lack adequate impactfulness.


I can definitely hear the difference when playing through my P1 amp and Fiio uBTR.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> I can definitely hear the difference when playing through my P1 amp and Fiio uBTR.


It depends a lot on how they've crossed everything over to balance the impedance and relatively low sensitivity of the EST drivers, but the usual outcome is an IEM that really loves some current. I'm hoping the ones that GS Audio makes will follow their current trend of high sensitivity, low impedance sets so I have a hope of driving them off the FiiO LC-BT2. It's such a good little Bluetooth neckband, but the amplification chip is fairly weak. I know they did it for cost savings and battery life within a certain package weight, but I really wish they had copied Ikko and used two of them with larger capacity batteries instead. The thing is already a negligible weight, even if it were twice as heavy thanks to batteries, I would hardly notice. Three of those 250mAh slim LiPo batteries would give it plenty of battery to cope with increased amp power draw.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

... don't judge between sets with pop music on youtube. I really enjoyed discovering new music in the last 2 pages of tunes here but I'm going to let my old crabby ears show a bit  ...  most of these youtube tracks linked to sound pretty average leaning-toward-terrible with the amount of compression that's going on in the track, and we can't just blame YT for it. 

Unless there's a ton of separation in the channels with very clean recordings, it's very tricky to be judging things like soundstage, depth, etc.  A couple of those anime tracks were either mangled during upload or they're just poorly mixed. This is not good source material IMO. I can hear all of the details in these tracks just fine on a cheap set of AKG K52 in both flat and my "fun" eq settings. I can also hear the compression and lack of sound stage, and the forced stereo effect on the live recordings by lopsided mixing if the instruments different channels (all tricks from classic rock mixing in the 60's and 70's).  That's not a cowbell in the live rock track, but it sounded like striking a heavy tin can in an alleyway during a maelstrom of vocals and guitars. I don't know how anybody could get "airy" out of that set of those strikes, but I'll have one of what you're having x-D  I dusted off my old Shure SRH440s and it sounds about the same.

Keep in mind that virtually all music that's mixed and mastered after 2010 has a ton of software effects applied to it already. If you don't know what to listen out for when reverb / delay / fader effects are being used on instruments or the voices, just know that many of those variations that you're discerning here are going to sound odd on reference class earphones with a lot of resolution available to them. The less popular the band or the more obscure the composer, the more likely that they're using a  bedroom / single-office studio setup on a macbook.  It's not a bad thing ... that's how a lot of music is getting made these days. But you should know that _quality_ is subject to the experience and skill of the producer and engineers creating the track, and that a lot of bedroom musicians aren't as good in mastering as they could be. Professional studios have an entire staff for what many are trying to replicate as a one-person studio with pro tools. That makes a lot of youtube findings very hit and miss ... has nothing to do with your earphones. 

Particularly with soundstage you need to understand the difference in what you're hearing:  is it a reverb and/or delay effect done post-recording? Is it acoustic reverb from the environment? Or is what we're hearing simple stereo channel separation from the mixer? All of these factors have a big influence on soundstage of the playback source. Want to really hear cymbal strike and decay?  Go over to Paiste's soundroom and take the mix out of the equation:  https://www.paiste.com/en/soundroom.  I don't know how many times I hear youtube reviewers talking about cymbal quality on old 60's rock recordings. You're hearing what the sound engineer wanted you to hear. If it sounds "sweeter" or has a longer decay relative to flat studio monitors, then the IEM/headphone is just coloring the sound to make you think you're getting your money's worth. 

Here's a good example of reverb in electronica - that decay and echo you hear in Ionnalee's voice is probably a combo of both software and effects board reverb being applied to the vocals. I consider her studio game to be top notch over the past 10 years, and live shows tend to be mixed well. There are a lot of subtleties in here but it's probably going to sound amazing sans EQ. Why?  It's a very vee shaped recording already before getting to your phones.  Can you tell when reverb is dialed up and down on the vocals and kb effects? Does the treble roll-off in your stock tuning kill the buzz in the supporting keyboards? Is the bass too boomy for the on-four beat?  



As quality of the playback device goes up, the underlying quality of the track is more obvious to the listener. That's why everybody loves blon bl03s, porta pros, and "fun" tunings. The treble rolloff hides a lot of mixing and mastering mistakes, and most listeners are not actively listening or critically listening.  

To really hear differences between headphones you want to stick to recordings of non-amplified instruments on a lossless format (or stream FLAC or aptX HD) of songs of that you, the listener, are intimately familiar with. After that, we're subjectively picking apart recordings based on the tunings or songs that someone else is familiar with (as my examples are for you, likely).  One of my go-to tracks is a Dustin O'Halloran piano and strings recording. At 22 seconds somebody kicks a music stand or something in the background. For some headphones it just doesn't show up. You can hear a bit of background hiss from the gain being twisted up a little for recording the piano with what is likely a single mic'd rig. Then the strings hit with more mics.  I could float on the bass from those lower cello registers for the rest of the day and probably die happy. Words like lush and warm come to mind, and then violin echoes the melody in a high octaves - it's very smooth from the positioning and relaxed mic setup on the strings. 

https://tidal.com/browse/track/186513971

Now hop over to Tomatito's classic recording of _Libertango _on _Spain Again. _

https://tidal.com/browse/track/3972276

Immediately you can tell that this is a better recording with a lower noise floor. The guitar is mic'd perfectly. The timbre of the note and the strike against the strings is just perfect.  Despite a million notes coming out of both instruments, you're never really left hunting for which arpeggio is being played by whom. I've heard both of these tracks a thousand times across a lot of different equipment, both hi-fi, car stereos, overears, and IEMs. Even on sub-par devices, the quality of the mix is so good that you can still hear all of the individual notes.

fwiw!  cheers and rock on


----------



## voicemaster

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ... don't judge between sets with pop music on youtube. I really enjoyed discovering new music in the last 2 pages of tunes here but I'm going to let my old crabby ears show a bit  ...  most of these youtube tracks linked to sound pretty average leaning-toward-terrible with the amount of compression that's going on in the track, and we can't just blame YT for it.
> 
> Unless there's a ton of separation in the channels with very clean recordings, it's very tricky to be judging things like soundstage, depth, etc.  A couple of those anime tracks were either mangled during upload or they're just poorly mixed. This is not good source material IMO. I can hear all of the details in these tracks just fine on a cheap set of AKG K52 in both flat and my "fun" eq settings. I can also hear the compression and lack of sound stage, and the forced stereo effect on the live recordings by lopsided mixing if the instruments different channels (all tricks from classic rock mixing in the 60's and 70's).  That's not a cowbell in the live rock track, but it sounded like striking a heavy tin can in an alleyway during a maelstrom of vocals and guitars. I don't know how anybody could get "airy" out of that set of those strikes, but I'll have one of what you're having x-D  I dusted off my old Shure SRH440s and it sounds about the same.
> 
> ...



Youtube is just for sharing because I can't share the flac files the song and some japanese songs are hard to get even on mp3. They only have blueray which need to be imported from Japan directly. Even with youtube files, still can hear the difference. Lossless files will amplify it even more.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> Youtube is just for sharing because I can't share the flac files the song and some japanese songs are hard to get even on mp3. They only have blueray which need to be imported from Japan directly. Even with youtube files, still can hear the difference. Lossless files will amplify it even more.


I try to share from YouTube music which cronches the files with slightly less compression than the video site, but the links default there anyway. Well, they're all available from that source or can be searched elsewhere on tidal or whatever.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

voicemaster said:


> Youtube is just for sharing because I can't share the flac files the song and some japanese songs are hard to get even on mp3. They only have blueray which need to be imported from Japan directly. Even with youtube files, still can hear the difference. Lossless files will amplify it even more.



Oh, don't get me wrong. Certainly I listen to music on youtube a lot, too. The streams at higher resolutions (1080p or 4k) tend to be just fine for casual listening. Especially for live music, we're getting quality hits on the recording setup more than we are from the stream at that point.  But with youtube, there are a lot of other factors to consider with how the video was transferred / encoded, if there were any conversions or filtering put on it etc. the stream itself is the last link in a long chain of production. Without going down the rabbit hole of code container formats and the wild number of choices that are watered down to "bad / prolly alright" in uploader software, there's a lot that can go wrong before we get a chance to play it.

My point was that if you want to _compare two sets of headphones _at your disposal, use the highest quality non-youtube source you can with a quality recording of acoustic instruments, avoid pop or heavily computer-produced music. The differences in timbre, tone, detail etc.. are all a bit easier to pick out from natural instruments than something that's been heavily engineered for sony / panasonic / apple earbuds. 

cheers


----------



## voicemaster

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Oh, don't get me wrong. Certainly I listen to music on youtube a lot, too. The streams at higher resolutions (1080p or 4k) tend to be just fine for casual listening. Especially for live music, we're getting quality hits on the recording setup more than we are from the stream at that point.  But with youtube, there are a lot of other factors to consider with how the video was transferred / encoded, if there were any conversions or filtering put on it etc. the stream itself is the last link in a long chain of production. Without going down the rabbit hole of code container formats and the wild number of choices that are watered down to "bad / prolly alright" in uploader software, there's a lot that can go wrong before we get a chance to play it.
> 
> My point was that if you want to _compare two sets of headphones _at your disposal, use the highest quality non-youtube source you can with a quality recording of acoustic instruments, avoid pop or heavily computer-produced music. The differences in timbre, tone, detail etc.. are all a bit easier to pick out from natural instruments than something that's been heavily engineered for sony / panasonic / apple earbuds.
> 
> cheers


I always do. I use not only youtube, but lossless files too.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> Well I got my AST's today!
> All I can say is that I'm done buying earphones for a long time.
> I bought a few different KZ/CCA models lately mostly because I love the fit.
> If you put the ASX, ASF, AST, DQ6, CSN on a table and told me to pick the best and worst I don't think I'd have a clue.
> ...


AST sound like a nightmare out of the box, post 70 hours burn-in, with CP360 and M11Pro’s line out mode with AK4497 sound, it has very impressive layering and resolving capability among many of not only KZ/CCA but to higher competitors. I tested AST against Anole VX, there is an undefinable difference in resolution/ positioning but they share same vector of full layering multi-BA characteristics.

I’m listening AST while burning in my Moondrop Variations, and switching these two for each burn-in sessions, I can say AST is better handling layering over Variations with same hours of burn-in recorded on clock.


----------



## MacAttack7

AmericanSpirit said:


> AST sound like a nightmare out of the box, post 70 hours burn-in, with CP360 and M11Pro’s line out mode with AK4497 sound, it has very impressive layering and resolving capability among many of not only KZ/CCA but to higher competitors. I tested AST against Anole VX, there is an undefinable difference in resolution/ positioning but they share same vector of full layering multi-BA characteristics.
> 
> I’m listening AST while burning in my Moondrop Variations, and switching these two for each burn-in sessions, I can say AST is better handling layering over Variations with same hours of burn-in recorded on clock.


Why would it sound different? 
The instructions say after 5 minutes of playing it's supposed to be normal.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 2, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> Why would it sound different?
> The instructions say after 5 minutes of playing it's supposed to be normal.


Per reports from many other AST owners including myself verified that is true.  Judging sound from out of the box is tricky.

I posted this 20-hour mark commentary on June 22 for AST:



> -I’m now more confident to refer AST is power hungry IEM, (similary to ASX, but much more power-thirsty than ASX); this could divide impressions to day and night,
> 
> With less powered source:
> one may say “ahh it sound muddy, everything is off focus, with one note bass “boom”
> ...


----------



## PhonoPhi

AmericanSpirit said:


> Per reports from many other AST owners including myself verified that is true.  Judging sound from out of the box is tricky.


So how many reports from people believing in Earth being flat would you need to confidently claim it to be true?


----------



## voicemaster

AmericanSpirit said:


> AST sound like a nightmare out of the box, post 70 hours burn-in, with CP360 and M11Pro’s line out mode with AK4497 sound, it has very impressive layering and resolving capability among many of not only KZ/CCA but to higher competitors. I tested AST against Anole VX, there is an undefinable difference in resolution/ positioning but they share same vector of full layering multi-BA characteristics.
> 
> I’m listening AST while burning in my Moondrop Variations, and switching these two for each burn-in sessions, I can say AST is better handling layering over Variations with same hours of burn-in recorded on clock.


I have both and I have used my AST for almost 1 month everyday so it will be pretty much burned in. While the AST may have better layering due to having more drivers, but the Variations sounds far far superior than the AST. For its price, the AST is pretty good, but I don't have other IEMs in the same price range as the AST.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 2, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I have both and I have used my AST for almost 1 month everyday so it will be pretty much burned in. While the AST may have better layering due to having more drivers, but the Variations sounds far far superior than the AST. For its price, the AST is pretty good, but I don't have other IEMs in the same price range as the AST.


Yea, that's basically a wrap up of AST vs Variations,

AST: 12BA
Resolution: A
Layering: A+
Sound Stage: B+
Tuning: B
Positioning: C+
Focusing: B
Fun: A+
Drivability: D
Price to Value: S
Overall: A-
Note: proper gain/impedance output required, with a general source such as PC / iPad, it has overwhelming bass and undefined imaging.

Variations: 2EST+2BA+1DD
Resolution: S
Layering: A-
Sound Stage: B+
Tuning: S+
Positioning: A+
Focusing: S-
Fun: S
Drivability: A
Price to Value: A
Overall: S-

Anole VX: 10BA
Resolution: S+
Layering: S+
Sound Stage: A
Tuning: S+
Positioning: S
Focusing: S+
Fun: S
Drivability: A+
Price to Value:  F
Overall: S+


----------



## MacAttack7

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea, that's basically a wrap up of AST vs Variations,
> 
> AST: 12BA
> Resolution: A
> ...


Why do you say AST is hard to drive? 
I use mine with an iPod Touch using almost the lowest volume setting.
Wouldn't that mean it's easy to drive?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> Why do you say AST is hard to drive?
> I use mine with an iPod Touch using almost the lowest volume setting.
> Wouldn't that mean it's easy to drive?


with iPad, the detail retrieving of post-burn in AST is very limited. The drivability here means the scalability of sound quality depending on the playing source. Some IEM sounds exactly the same from any source, of which AST has different expressions depending on the playing source.


----------



## MacAttack7

AmericanSpirit said:


> with iPad, the detail retrieving of post-burn in AST is very limited. The drivability here means the scalability of sound quality depending on the playing source. Some IEM sounds exactly the same from any source, of which AST has different expressions depending on the playing source.


I guess I'll never know, since all I have is an iPod Touch.
Maybe someday I'll buy some more advanced equipment.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> I guess I'll never know, since all I have is an iPod Touch.
> Maybe someday I'll buy some more advanced equipment.


It's always good to have a new playing ground

FiiO BTR5 / Qudelix 5K  (It's around $100USD) may be an option as a Bluetooth amp. Qudelix 5K has a very nice app with detailed EQ options, meanwhile, FiiO BTR5 has a very powerful balanced output which it can even run most full-size headphones.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Oh, don't get me wrong. Certainly I listen to music on youtube a lot, too. The streams at higher resolutions (1080p or 4k) tend to be just fine for casual listening. Especially for live music, we're getting quality hits on the recording setup more than we are from the stream at that point.  But with youtube, there are a lot of other factors to consider with how the video was transferred / encoded, if there were any conversions or filtering put on it etc. the stream itself is the last link in a long chain of production. Without going down the rabbit hole of code container formats and the wild number of choices that are watered down to "bad / prolly alright" in uploader software, there's a lot that can go wrong before we get a chance to play it.
> 
> My point was that if you want to _compare two sets of headphones _at your disposal, use the highest quality non-youtube source you can with a quality recording of acoustic instruments, avoid pop or heavily computer-produced music. The differences in timbre, tone, detail etc.. are all a bit easier to pick out from natural instruments than something that's been heavily engineered for sony / panasonic / apple earbuds.
> 
> cheers


Good point of pop music engineering! Yes, nowadays not only studio mixing and mastering engineers but even musicians started to pay attention to the outputs of their songs. Artists paying extra attention to how their music would sound from vast majorities apple/sony / bose outlets and composing the pop songs based on that final outlet sound. 

I'd like to add one more, from someone with 15yrs+ reviewing headphones/earphones experience:
-Try various formats (youtube, FLAC, DSD)
-Try various genres: Pops, Rock/Metal, various electronica(Dub, bass-heavy EDM, synthesizer-focused trance, wide-spectrum D&B), Jazz, Various Classical (from simple piano trio to full orchestral, full choras) old recording to the new recording.  )
-Try various playing sources (daily use PC, iPod, walkman, android phones, Bluetooth amp, and DAPs)
-Try compare with various benchmarks, absolute judgement is very hard unless someone is gifted, compare with various other headphones. earphones. 
-Have your reference equipment to "zero-in", so that you will notice the sound is either "warm/cold", "sharp/soft", "colored/neutral". 
For FR balance my IEM reference of the absolute flat is Final Audio E500, and uncolored tuning is Softears RSV (except bass elevation)


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea, that's basically a wrap up of AST vs Variations,
> 
> AST: 12BA
> Resolution: A
> ...



What would you say about AST vs Tea and AST vs Aria?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> What would you say about AST vs Tea and AST vs Aria?


If using same format:

Mangird Tea: 6BA+1DD
Resolution: A+
Layering: A+ (S+ for mid-range layering, best of all)
Sound Stage: C+
Tuning: A+
Positioning: B-
Focusing: A-
Fun: A+
Drivability: B
Price to Value: A-
Overall: A
Note: proper gain/impedance output required, has very intense mid-range layering and resolution, vocal harmonics will shine. Recabling highly recommended (stock cable narrows down sound stage to D-, resolution to C)


Aria 2021: 1DD
Resolution: B+
Layering: C+
Sound Stage: A
Tuning: A+
Positioning: B
Focusing: A
Fun: S
Drivability: A+
Price to Value: S
Overall: A-
Note: removing stock iron hex dumper filter is highly recommended, recabling recommended too.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> If using same format:
> 
> Mangird Tea: 6BA+1DD
> Resolution: A+
> ...



In your opinion, is the Moondrop Dusk a worth upgrade to someone that has an AST or only a jump to the Variations makes sense?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> In your opinion, is the Moondrop Dusk a worth upgrade to someone that has an AST or only a jump to the Variations makes sense?


There will be a marginal upgrades on technicalities and tuning, if you put weight on layering it Dusk is 4BA+1DD after all. It’s compact and well-balanced IEM. You will experience true-upgrade feeling with Variations.


----------



## IEMbiker

Some fast bass and cymbal to check your gear. Positioning of each cymbal and bass speed.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff (Jul 2, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> There will be a marginal upgrades on technicalities and tuning, if you put weight on layering it Dusk is 4BA+1DD after all. It’s compact and well-balanced IEM. You will experience true-upgrade feeling with Variations.



AST is my second IEM and it's the perfect size for my ears. It is as if it was custom made and has a perfect fit. I don't want to collect multiple IEMs and I plan to either stay a while enjoying the AST or make an upgrade that is "a huge leap", definitely not a marginal improvement.

So, I have a list of desired IEMs that I consider for an upgrade including the Variations, Thieaudio Voyager V14 or one of its other tribrids. As you can see, something up to 1k.


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> AST is my second IEM and it's the perfect size for my ears. It is as if it was custom made and has a perfect fit. I don't want to collect multiple IEMs and I plan to either stay a while enjoying the AST or make an upgrade that is "a huge leap", definitely not a marginal improvement.
> 
> So, I have a list of desired IEMs that I consider for an upgrade including the Variations, Thieaudio Voyager V14 or one of its other tribrids. As you can see, something up to 1k.


I took a gamble with the Variations when it is just being released so not too many reviews yet. Luckily, the improvement is quite a huge leap imho. Also, more drivers don't necessarily better sounding, I've learnt my lesson from JH Audio Roxanne V.1. That thing cost me $1500 and lets just say I hate it. I like 64Audio back then because they make universal IEM with 4+ drivers for less than $1000, but now they are like luxury brand.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

voicemaster said:


> I took a gamble with the Variations when it is just being released so not too many reviews yet. Luckily, the improvement is quite a huge leap imho. Also, more drivers don't necessarily better sounding, I've learnt my lesson from JH Audio Roxanne V.1. That thing cost me $1500 and lets just say I hate it. I like 64Audio back then because they make universal IEM with 4+ drivers for less than $1000, but now they are like luxury brand.



What you suggest me to put on my list considering I would like a huge leap from the KZ AST but really enjoy its sound signature?


----------



## voicemaster

boredbuyingstuff said:


> What you suggest me to put on my list considering I would like a huge leap from the KZ AST but really enjoy its sound signature?


The only one I know is the Variations. Moondrop also tuning their IEMs to harman target which KZ also trying to do, so they will be pretty similar frequency curve. I have the Aria and it can stand against CCA CKX even with just a single DD.


----------



## ephrank

Should I jump on the AST hype train? Already have AS12.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 3, 2021)

ephrank said:


> Should I jump on the AST hype train? Already have AS12.


I have both, technicalities wise it’s an upgrade. Tuning wise they sound day and night. AS12 is KZ V-shape house sound, AST is dark warm signature. If you like bright and impactful, you may need to reconsider AST, it may disappoint you.

 Imagine AS12 is sparrow’s chirps and AST is night owl’s hooting. 

Basically that describes the characteristics.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

voicemaster said:


> The only one I know is the Variations. Moondrop also tuning their IEMs to harman target which KZ also trying to do, so they will be pretty similar frequency curve. I have the Aria and it can stand against CCA CKX even with just a single DD.


The recent release of moondrop tuning is diverting from Harman IMO. Harman has 2.5khz pinna gain peak vs Moondrop started to target 3khz as new peak after RSV>Dusk>Aria>Sparks>Variations. Also the bass shelf is diverting from Harman as well, they slimmed out 150hz volume to make it more sub-bass focused.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Ok ... so I received the ZAX in the mail today. After an afternoon of listening my initial impression is that these are stupid good for 45 euros  I can see why people are in love with the similar CKX that has a touch darker treble. I will be ordering the CKX because I think both sets are destined to be classics, and I think my wife would love them as well, especially with her smaller ears. I can't believe it's taken me so long to catch up to last year, but here I am.

I was happy to see a full compliment of starlines in ZAX box, and the pretty silver plated cable with clear plastic touches is a nice improvement over KZs famous brown jobber. Along with the starline tips I'm using the copper cable from the C12s to burn them in and they are a touch dark. I found another online review (outside the head-fi fam) who claimed to prefer lots of treble and thought his set were dark, too, so I don't think I'm crazy. I'll try the silver plated cable tomorrow as opinions and burn in have only just begun.

Any and all bass issues my C12 had on fast metal are gone OOTB. The double magnet thing seems to work, but from what I've read online about other tech I think that KZ are probably a step behind the beryllium and carbon nanotube DDs that are collecting fans among the other chifi marques. Quantitatively there is more bass (> 60hz) to my ears over the C12. I'm holding any qualitative thoughts about bass until they burn in as the C12 are quite potent here with a touch of EQ. For synthwave, trip-hop, and most jazz I've tried to date the C12 is just pitch perfect.

Subbass is too early to tell. It's not disappointing by any means, but the C12's exercised 7mm is holding its own here relative to ZAX's 10mm with no burn-in. I'm not hearing that big of a difference in electronic or synthwave music for the moment below 60hz. 

 I was dying to know how these fared for classical and orchestral pieces. Initial observation is that contrabass and cello strings are audibly and markedly improved right out of the box. Violin and horns are about equal in tone and timbre wise to my ears relative to the C12. I think the mid-bass and mids-to-bass transitions are better tuned over the C12. Plus, we've got 4 more drivers to play with, so no surprise here. The more problematic (busy) orchestra pieces that were tripping up the C12 get a passing grade. Still not as detailed and layered as they could be, but its passable when things get busy. 

The big difference in classical works is from the enhanced soundstage, which I would deem "very good" at any price. There is definitely a much wider soundstage than the C12 can muster and this is the biggest and happiest improvement. I'd put ZAX easily on par with the bumper crop of $100-$250 studio closed-back headphones for soundstage and positioning, which is how my ears are trained after decades of use, starting with Sony V6. Open backs are a different story, obviously. When I want crazy soundstage I reach for my Grados.  

Treble in jazz is close to being a wash to my ears. With the C12s, players like Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, and Stan Getz in his pre-samba days are freaking _lit_. Using the same EQ presets with the ZAX reveals more width and maybe juuuuuuuuust barely a touch more of what reviewers call sparkle (12 kHz and up). I still think the C12 is a very good choice for jazz with that set being a bit more analytical, and the ZAX being a touch more musical and maybe less revealing. A paradox, I know.

My only slight disappointment is that when I ordered them I thought that the ZAX _might be_ a bit more open given the shell design. These provide about half the isolation of the C12 which is one of the reasons I ordered them over the CKX (another big one was reports of the increased treble, which is good for me). I need to be able to hear what's going on in the house and my office. Pausing the music is enough to have a quick conversation without removing the IEM, so that's Mission Accomplished for my personal requirements. They do leak a bit at high moderate to loud volumes. but this isn't an issue for me. In a busy office I would choose these over a more isolated pair if you have to regularly deal with interruptions.

Fit and finish:  I managed to find a cyan resin shell with black faceplate and find these to be a great looking set with a premium feel that belies their asking price. The shell shape is about 95% the same as my C12, and the driver positioning internally looks very similar to the C12, too.  Fit is very similar with the ZAX being overall smaller and smoother from its curved faceplate.   

Based on what I've heard today I really like these but will not be ditching the C12 anytime soon. I A/B tested them by putting one each on the brown cable and mixing FLAC tracks into mono with combined L+R. The ZAX is more efficient yielding 5-10dB more volume than the C12, so I had to compensate in the balance. Moving left to right during different passages on my reference tracks didn't yield as big of a difference as I thought there would be, but switching between full sets the bump in SQ is more apparent. Maybe the moondrop aria or starfield is as good for some folks' ears as these, but I don't see them keeping up with the ZAX in resolution or soundstage. I'll never know and that's fine with me.

I will report back in a couple of weeks to see if anything's changed opinion wise. I think I'm going to target one of the EST hybrids from Mangird or Tri in a couple of months in a higher price tier rather than go down the ASX/AST rabbit hole. I canceled the CSNs; I sadly don't have enough time to devote to comparisons for comparison's sake. I will stay tuned for KZ and CCA's next releases and maybe jump on a blind purchase for one of their future ears.  cheers


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Ok ... so I received the ZAX in the mail today. After an afternoon of listening my initial impression is that these are stupid good for 45 euros  I can see why people are in love with the similar CKX that has a touch darker treble. I will be ordering the CKX because I think both sets are destined to be classics, and I think my wife would love them as well, especially with her smaller ears. I can't believe it's taken me so long to catch up to last year, but here I am.
> 
> I was happy to see a full compliment of starlines in ZAX box, and the pretty silver plated cable with clear plastic touches is a nice improvement over KZs famous brown jobber. Along with the starline tips I'm using the copper cable from the C12s to burn them in and they are a touch dark. I found another online review (outside the head-fi fam) who claimed to prefer lots of treble and thought his set were dark, too, so I don't think I'm crazy. I'll try the silver plated cable tomorrow as opinions and burn in have only just begun.
> 
> ...


Welcome to KZ club👍 I heard KZ had EST project which is suspended. It will be interesting one if KZ could develop EST drivers with Shenzhen OEMs.


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> Welcome to KZ club👍 I heard KZ had EST project which is suspended. It will be interesting one if KZ could develop EST drivers with Shenzhen OEMs.


I would be very interested to see KZ or their daughter/sister company CCA take on tuning an EST hybrid or tribrid IEM. Hopefully they'll try to target a sub-$300 pricepoint for it. I'd love to see them hit $250, but it may not be possible, as I know the Sonion EST drivers are notoriously expensive because they're quite delicate and challenging to manufacture. Electret drivers are also notoriously difficult to tune the fundamental harmonic resonances down in, so KZ would have a rather extreme challenge on their hands. Given their FR graphs as of late, maybe they should toss the project to CCA and let their engineers sink their teeth into it before bringing their designs back to KZ proper.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

mndless said:


> I would be very interested to see KZ or their daughter/sister company CCA take on tuning an EST hybrid or tribrid IEM. Hopefully they'll try to target a sub-$300 pricepoint for it. I'd love to see them hit $250, but it may not be possible, as I know the Sonion EST drivers are notoriously expensive because they're quite delicate and challenging to manufacture. Electret drivers are also notoriously difficult to tune the fundamental harmonic resonances down in, so KZ would have a rather extreme challenge on their hands. Given their FR graphs as of late, maybe they should toss the project to CCA and let their engineers sink their teeth into it before bringing their designs back to KZ proper.


KZ used to be able to make thing with a fraction of a price, my hope is 30% of $5-600. 150-200🙌


----------



## ephrank

AmericanSpirit said:


> I have both, technicalities wise it’s an upgrade. Tuning wise they sound day and night. AS12 is KZ V-shape house sound, AST is dark warm signature. If you like bright and impactful, you may need to reconsider AST, it may disappoint you.
> 
> Imagine AS12 is sparrow’s chirps and AST is night owl’s hooting.
> 
> Basically that describes the characteristics.



Great information, thanks. I read your discussion about AST being sensitive to source impedance. Do they still sound "dark" with optimal source (i.e. close to zero impedance)? Also, how much of a technicalities upgrade it is?


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> KZ used to be able to make thing with a fraction of a price, my hope is 30% of $5-600. 150-200🙌


If they're using a dual-chamber electret like Sonion makes, or their newer model with two of the dual-chamber electret drivers run from the same transformer pack, then I doubt they'd be able to keep to that price point. If they used single electret driver like Shuoer did in the tape or BGVP did in the Zero, then maybe they'd be able to meet that price point without the crazy tuning issues that both of those units are plagued with in their attempts to keep driver count at a minimum. Poor crossover choices and oddly tuned DD selection leads to scooped out mids and peaky treble. Electret or "electrostatic" drivers should be relegate only to mid and upper treble, due to their extremely light membranes often lacking impactfulness in the lower treble where a BA driver would be better suited. I'd love to see them actually do something like that. A compact set like the CKX with a DD, a trio of BA drivers for the mid-bass to mids transition, a full-range crossed over for mids, and a low to mid-treble driver topped off with a single electret properly tuned to handle just the mid to upper treble extension. That would be an absolutely glorious product at a $250 price point or below. We've seen that the guys at CCA can tune well with the CKX, so I'd love to see them make a "pro" version with some EST treble extension. Maybe ditch the 30095 from the nozzle and replace it with an electret mounted elsewhere. If they were to consider going that far, I'd like to see them go ahead and use a 3D printed insert to add sound tubes and driver mounting points. Sound tubes really are important.


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Ok ... so I received the ZAX in the mail today. After an afternoon of listening my initial impression is that these are stupid good for 45 euros  I can see why people are in love with the similar CKX that has a touch darker treble. I will be ordering the CKX because I think both sets are destined to be classics, and I think my wife would love them as well, especially with her smaller ears. I can't believe it's taken me so long to catch up to last year, but here I am.
> 
> I was happy to see a full compliment of starlines in ZAX box, and the pretty silver plated cable with clear plastic touches is a nice improvement over KZs famous brown jobber. Along with the starline tips I'm using the copper cable from the C12s to burn them in and they are a touch dark. I found another online review (outside the head-fi fam) who claimed to prefer lots of treble and thought his set were dark, too, so I don't think I'm crazy. I'll try the silver plated cable tomorrow as opinions and burn in have only just begun.
> 
> ...


I was very pleasantly surprised by my CCA CKX. I did have to EQ out a tiny bit of the peaks from the treble since I'm sensitive to it, and I added a bit more gain from 14-20kHz, since they drop off quite dramatically there, and they just sound so good for their pricepoint. They're also just so small for having so many drivers crammed into them that it just doesn't seem possible. I definitely rec them for people just getting into IEMs without any definite preferences for sound signature because they aren't too extreme in any way, but have a fairly comfortable club/house tuning.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Interesting thoughts above here ^ re: driver tech. One thing I'd read about the new KZ ZAS was that the 50024 units are using composite. I've not found any more details more than that, but it seems like they are doubling down on BA technology and aren't finished with it. KZ have bucked the other driver trends which leads me to believe that they've made significant investments in BA fabrication and are reluctant to follow the ChiFi herd. Developing proprietary tech helps a firm stay competitively differentiated and to leverage existing assets. We may not see them hop into EST territory. 

With a new tuning and a new premium shell design, the ZAS is a clear iteration on the ZAX. The ZAX also has 50024s in basically the same configuration, including the 30019 treble unit but there's no mention about the ZAX BA units being composite or iron. I haven't looked on AST/ASX driver particulars, but maybe one or both of that platform was serving as an invisible mule for newer tech that wasn't advertised.  We will just have to keep on the lookout for early scoops!


----------



## r31ya (Jul 4, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Interesting thoughts above here ^ re: driver tech. One thing I'd read about the new KZ ZAS was that the 50024 units are using composite. I've not found any more details more than that, but it seems like they are doubling down on BA technology and aren't finished with it. KZ have bucked the other driver trends which leads me to believe that they've made significant investments in BA fabrication and are reluctant to follow the ChiFi herd. Developing proprietary tech helps a firm stay competitively differentiated and to leverage existing assets. We may not see them hop into EST territory.
> 
> With a new tuning and a new premium shell design, the ZAS is a clear iteration on the ZAX. The ZAX also has 50024s in basically the same configuration, including the 30019 treble unit but there's no mention about the ZAX BA units being composite or iron. I haven't looked on AST/ASX driver particulars, but maybe one or both of that platform was serving as an invisible mule for newer tech that wasn't advertised.  We will just have to keep on the lookout for early scoops!


Some dude claimed he already got ZAS and he said its closer to CSN than ZAX.
Which i guess the Xun Driver could cause that, but it seems the new BAs is not performing well in ZAS. well the black BAs is not performing that great in ASX and AST either.
Forgot which page the first impression post was on.


----------



## seanwee

AmericanSpirit said:


> The recent release of moondrop tuning is diverting from Harman IMO. Harman has 2.5khz pinna gain peak vs Moondrop started to target 3khz as new peak after RSV>Dusk>Aria>Sparks>Variations. Also the bass shelf is diverting from Harman as well, they slimmed out 150hz volume to make it more sub-bass focused.


That seems to be more ideal to my ears based on the iems i like.


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Interesting thoughts above here ^ re: driver tech. One thing I'd read about the new KZ ZAS was that the 50024 units are using composite. I've not found any more details more than that, but it seems like they are doubling down on BA technology and aren't finished with it. KZ have bucked the other driver trends which leads me to believe that they've made significant investments in BA fabrication and are reluctant to follow the ChiFi herd. Developing proprietary tech helps a firm stay competitively differentiated and to leverage existing assets. We may not see them hop into EST territory.
> 
> With a new tuning and a new premium shell design, the ZAS is a clear iteration on the ZAX. The ZAX also has 50024s in basically the same configuration, including the 30019 treble unit but there's no mention about the ZAX BA units being composite or iron. I haven't looked on AST/ASX driver particulars, but maybe one or both of that platform was serving as an invisible mule for newer tech that wasn't advertised.  We will just have to keep on the lookout for early scoops!


For most budget chifi the DDs usually play a very large role and the BAs are mostly for fine tuning. The ZAS sounds like the CSN especially at the treble end and nothing like the ZAX..


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Jul 4, 2021)

saldsald said:


> For most budget chifi the DDs usually play a very large role and the BAs are mostly for fine tuning. The ZAS sounds like the CSN especially at the treble end and nothing like the ZAX..



To be fair, a lot of the high end stuff isn't so different. Campfire Audio tout their 10mm "ADLC" driver. The Dorado 2020 is a vee shaped $1000 pair and only has a single BA. Their yellow entry level IEM at $250 also has a single 10mm DD.

That's an interesting observation about the KZ trio. Isn't the ZAX also the same Xun driver as CSN and ZAS? It's described as 10mm double magnet driver. Was it tuned up a bit before getting marketed as the Xun?

cheers

edit:  small correction - $1099 per pair.  Based on the reviews, it seems campfire went the distance to tune these for wide appeal to rock and 80s pop. I just can't imagine a $1040 improvement to sound for pop music over our beloved KZ sets.


----------



## CT007

Does Linsoul own KZ..? Some guy on youtube told me they do, matter-of-factly. I can't find any such "proof" of this.


----------



## slex

CT007 said:


> Does Linsoul own KZ..? Some guy on youtube told me they do, matter-of-factly. I can't find any such "proof" of this.


Different whales, perhaps its true. One in budget market the other.....🤣


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

CT007 said:


> Does Linsoul own KZ..? Some guy on youtube told me they do, matter-of-factly. I can't find any such "proof" of this.



I think they have mistaken KZ for Thieaudio, which definitely were founded by Linsoul. From Monarch's product page: 



> Thieaudio was launched in 2019 as a creative endeavor of Linsoul Audio. We are committed to the continual expansion on the limits of high-fidelity audio. We welcome you to join us and experience excellence in musical performance!


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## CT007 (Jul 4, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think they have mistaken KZ for Thieaudio, which definitely were founded by Linsoul. From Monarch's product page:


Yep, that's all I could come up with. I emailed Linsoul to ask, though. =p Hopefully my ZAS gets here in the next few days, too..!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

ephrank said:


> Great information, thanks. I read your discussion about AST being sensitive to source impedance. Do they still sound "dark" with optimal source (i.e. close to zero impedance)? Also, how much of a technicalities upgrade it is?


It is tuned dark but with a solid competency in instrument separations @80hours. ASX is a source picky IEM as well. I found FiiO M11 Pro’s Lineout matches perfectly to AST, it adds extra layers of instruments separation and tames extra boosted bass to somewhat harman-ish level of bass floor.

KZ started to mend technicalities for recent releases, you ASX is“hmm not too bad, but not too good” C grade technicalities, AST is “oh wow it’s getting closer to good IEM” B grade technicalities. Main upgrade is separation but there is a marginal upgrade on coherence of overall sound tuning as well.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

mndless said:


> If they're using a dual-chamber electret like Sonion makes, or their newer model with two of the dual-chamber electret drivers run from the same transformer pack, then I doubt they'd be able to keep to that price point. If they used single electret driver like Shuoer did in the tape or BGVP did in the Zero, then maybe they'd be able to meet that price point without the crazy tuning issues that both of those units are plagued with in their attempts to keep driver count at a minimum. Poor crossover choices and oddly tuned DD selection leads to scooped out mids and peaky treble. Electret or "electrostatic" drivers should be relegate only to mid and upper treble, due to their extremely light membranes often lacking impactfulness in the lower treble where a BA driver would be better suited. I'd love to see them actually do something like that. A compact set like the CKX with a DD, a trio of BA drivers for the mid-bass to mids transition, a full-range crossed over for mids, and a low to mid-treble driver topped off with a single electret properly tuned to handle just the mid to upper treble extension. That would be an absolutely glorious product at a $250 price point or below. We've seen that the guys at CCA can tune well with the CKX, so I'd love to see them make a "pro" version with some EST treble extension. Maybe ditch the 30095 from the nozzle and replace it with an electret mounted elsewhere. If they were to consider going that far, I'd like to see them go ahead and use a 3D printed insert to add sound tubes and driver mounting points. Sound tubes really are important.


Good idea of placing electret unit on nozzle! KZ seemed getting away from 30095, so that sounds pretty realistic too.

Hope they source EST unit with 90% of Sonion Grade and 30% of the price.


----------



## G777

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> To be fair, a lot of the high end stuff isn't so different. Campfire Audio tout their 10mm "ADLC" driver. The Dorado 2020 is a vee shaped $1000 pair and only has a single BA. Their yellow entry level IEM at $250 also has a single 10mm DD.
> 
> That's an interesting observation about the KZ trio. Isn't the ZAX also the same Xun driver as CSN and ZAS? It's described as 10mm double magnet driver. Was it tuned up a bit before getting marketed as the Xun?
> 
> ...


The XUN driver has a bell-shaped chamber in the back. It's too thick to fit into the shell of the ZAX, hence the large new shells of the CSN, DQ6, and ZAS which all use the XUN driver.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 4, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Interesting thoughts above here ^ re: driver tech. One thing I'd read about the new KZ ZAS was that the 50024 units are using composite. I've not found any more details more than that, but it seems like they are doubling down on BA technology and aren't finished with it. KZ have bucked the other driver trends which leads me to believe that they've made significant investments in BA fabrication and are reluctant to follow the ChiFi herd. Developing proprietary tech helps a firm stay competitively differentiated and to leverage existing assets. We may not see them hop into EST territory.
> 
> With a new tuning and a new premium shell design, the ZAS is a clear iteration on the ZAX. The ZAX also has 50024s in basically the same configuration, including the 30019 treble unit but there's no mention about the ZAX BA units being composite or iron. I haven't looked on AST/ASX driver particulars, but maybe one or both of that platform was serving as an invisible mule for newer tech that wasn't advertised.  We will just have to keep on the lookout for early scoops!


AST uses 50024sx6 matrix driver, which I did notice difference on separation and more smooth transients compared to
Other bellsing BAs


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> Good idea of placing electret unit on nozzle! KZ seemed getting away from 30095, so that sounds pretty realistic too.
> 
> Hope they source EST unit with 90% of Sonion Grade and 30% of the price.


I would prefer if they didn't put it in the nozzle, as it does weird things with how the treble is presented, but I suspect it wouldn't be any worse than a 30095 in the nozzle. I would much rather have all the drivers within the main body and have the sound piper around with a 3D printed sound tube insert.


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## AmericanSpirit (Jul 4, 2021)

mndless said:


> I would prefer if they didn't put it in the nozzle, as it does weird things with how the treble is presented, but I suspect it wouldn't be any worse than a 30095 in the nozzle. I would much rather have all the drivers within the main body and have the sound piper around with a 3D printed sound tube insert.


Yea that’s a safer bet, but nothing particular stands out of already red ocean EST market.  ZAX / CSN / KBEar Lark all has 30095 sticking to nozzle which I do see there is a benefit in terms of “sound image” with nimble image and more dynamic driver like sound pressure. The downside is coherence interference, as it would stand out as independent imaging from rest of the drivers. For CSN and LARK, since it’s simple 1+1 config, the coherence issue is not that bothering though.
I’m not even sure if the dimensions of the EST driver would ever fit in the nozzle too.


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## saldsald (Jul 4, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> To be fair, a lot of the high end stuff isn't so different. Campfire Audio tout their 10mm "ADLC" driver. The Dorado 2020 is a vee shaped $1000 pair and only has a single BA. Their yellow entry level IEM at $250 also has a single 10mm DD.
> 
> That's an interesting observation about the KZ trio. Isn't the ZAX also the same Xun driver as CSN and ZAS? It's described as 10mm double magnet driver. Was it tuned up a bit before getting marketed as the Xun?
> 
> ...


I think it is a little different. Budget chifi IEMs usually employ some budget DDs probably developed by some OEM factories which almost predetermine the sound signature of the IEMs. Since these DDs are full frequency drivers and they don't add crossover to them so they can either tune the IEMs physically or by adding more drivers on top of the sound. You can find different brands using these drivers making these IEMs sound similar. The XUN is better as it is developed by KZ themselves but they have released several IEMs and TWS based on this driver already.


----------



## baskingshark

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> To be fair, a lot of the high end stuff isn't so different. Campfire Audio tout their 10mm "ADLC" driver. The Dorado 2020 is a vee shaped $1000 pair and only has a single BA. Their yellow entry level IEM at $250 also has a single 10mm DD.



True true. Campfire audio and some summitFi brands use Bellsing BA drivers in some of their higher end gear:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/

This info was released after knowles sued bellsing for copying their stuff.

I guess if the campfire engineers think a Bellsing can do the job over a more expensive knowles driver, I guess the implementation and tuning is more important than driver count it driver brand.


----------



## mndless

baskingshark said:


> True true. Campfire audio and some summitFi brands use Bellsing BA drivers in some of their higher end gear:
> 
> https://amp.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/
> 
> ...


I think the main difference is that it's cheaper for them to approach Bellsing to make them a unique driver tuned explicitly for their use than to try the same with Knowles or Sonion, if they aren't able to find a model in their catalogues that fit the sound signature that they're looking for, particularly for single BA sets. I don't necessarily understand the desire for single BA sets which aren't capitalizing on the potential for an incredibly compact form factor, but if Campfire Audio thinks there's an adequate market for it, then I guess there must be one...


----------



## voicemaster

mndless said:


> I think the main difference is that it's cheaper for them to approach Bellsing to make them a unique driver tuned explicitly for their use than to try the same with Knowles or Sonion, if they aren't able to find a model in their catalogues that fit the sound signature that they're looking for, particularly for single BA sets. I don't necessarily understand the desire for single BA sets which aren't capitalizing on the potential for an incredibly compact form factor, but if Campfire Audio thinks there's an adequate market for it, then I guess there must be one...


Want cheaper but selling at $1499 damn. I will be pissed unless the shell is 24k gold.


----------



## r31ya (Jul 5, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Want cheaper but selling at $1499 damn. I will be pissed unless the shell is 24k gold.


I remember trying out a custom IEM priced at $1400 ($1100 8 driver/side IEM+ $300 cable), he said his Custom IEM is what KZ ZS3 imitate in the shell looks.
Playing that through smartphone with spotify already blew my f*cking mind. well i only used to hearing sub $25 iem at the time.
As i hear through it, its so clear, detailed, and natural that i can literally portray a guy pick a string of a bass guitar and i can portray the string vibrating...

And then i bought the ear torture that is KZ ZS5 and as i mostly play in sub $200 IEM, until today i haven't heard IEM in that caliber again


----------



## baskingshark

voicemaster said:


> Want cheaper but selling at $1499 damn. I will be pissed unless the shell is 24k gold.



Look no further than the TRN golden ears at an ultra affordable $15000 USD:





Only 20 pieces left, don't miss it!!! And don't forget to click the $6 off coupon!!


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 5, 2021)

Just arrived... KZ ZAS.


Shell and faceplate feels cheap. IEM itself is on the larger side and is ridiculously light (imagine VK4/EDX) but fits my ears well. Didn't bother with the stock tips and went straight to whirlwind-type tips. Cable's 8-core but quite thin (metal splitter and jack).


*Literally a 5 minute initial impression... OH MY GOD THAT BASS!!!*


----------



## r31ya (Jul 5, 2021)

cappuchino said:


> Just arrived... KZ ZAS.
> 
> 
> Shell and faceplate feels cheap. IEM itself is on the larger side and is ridiculously light (imagine VK4/EDX) but fits my ears well. Didn't bother with the stock tips and went straight to whirlwind-type tips. Cable's 8-core but quite thin (metal splitter and jack).
> ...


One thing i dislike on ZS10P is that flat textureless bass, Xun DD in DQ6 shows the new one can deliver some texture and subbass.
At it seems the new black BAs is smoother as well,

Here's hoping this shaping up to be great IEM... or we have to wait for CCA incarnation of it.
---
_All that _*BASS~?*
So the graph is real then?


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 7, 2021)

r31ya said:


> One thing i dislike on ZS10P is that flat textureless bass, Xun DD in DQ6 shows the new one can deliver some texture and subbass.
> At it seems the new black BAs is smoother as well,
> 
> Here's hoping this shaping up to be great IEM... or we have to wait for CCA incarnation of it.
> ...


Yup. Graph's accurate.

Bass goes really deep, like head-to-head with IE400 Pro deep. Texture shows a lot. HOWEVER, it has a tendency to get boomy on some tracks.

Midrange is fine. Treble is fine. Won't consider it dark, but treble is definitely on the more mellow side.


So far, only build material and the bass elevation (preference-dependent) are the things I find negative.


----------



## r31ya

cappuchino said:


> Bass goes really deep, like head-to-head with IE400 Pro deep. Texture shows a lot. HOWEVER, it has a tendency to get boomy on some tracks.


yeah Xun is not the fastest DD, DQ6 bass does have some texture but its a bit boomy which kinda muddles double pedal sometimes.


cappuchino said:


> Midrange is fine. Treble is fine. Won't consider it dark, but is definitely on the more mellow side.


Say, do you have CCA CKX or CCA CA16 which is praised for its natural mids. Can you compare to the mids to them or something else?


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 5, 2021)

r31ya said:


> yeah Xun is not the fastest DD, DQ6 bass does have some texture but its a bit boomy which kinda muddles double pedal sometimes.


Funny thing is I actually find the XUN of the DQ6 to be one of the fastest of the few DD I've tried, regardless of price.



r31ya said:


> Say, do you have CCA CKX or CCA CA16 which is praised for its natural mids. Can you compare to the mids to them or something else?


Sadly, I do not have either. I haven't actually listened to the ZAS since the initial post (had a few things to do) 😆 However, the midrange of the ZAS is quite subdued. Haven't noticed any thinness nor metallic tint on the midrange and treble either.


Update: Getting a bit of driver flex on the left transducer. Switched to vocal tips (BQEYZ) and KZ Au, Ag, Cu cable (aesthetic-purpose).


----------



## RikudouGoku

cappuchino said:


> Funny thing is I actually find the XUN of the DQ6 to be one of the fastest of the few DD I've tried, regardless of price.


Yeah, i agree it is on the faster side, regardless of price.

(some notable high tier DDs I got: Sony EX1000/EX800ST, Dunu Zen and the Fiio FD5)


----------



## cappuchino

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, i agree it is on the faster side, regardless of price.
> 
> (some notable high tier DDs I got: Sony EX1000/EX800ST, Dunu Zen and the Fiio FD5)


Cool to know. That's why it's still my top recommendation sub-40 USD. Just add some damping filter in the nozzle [either those pre-made ones (what I use) or some earbud foam] and you'll be set for a long time. And it's so easy to drive!


----------



## RikudouGoku

cappuchino said:


> Cool to know. That's why it's still my top recommendation sub-40 USD. Just add some damping filter in the nozzle [either those pre-made ones (what I use) or some earbud foam] and you'll be set for a long time. And it's so easy to drive!


Indeed, the DIY foam mod works like a charm on it.
(literally created the mod with the DQ6 in mind lol.)


----------



## CT007

cappuchino said:


> Shell and faceplate feels cheap.


Cheap as in, the same materials as all the other KZs like AST, DQ6?

Even MORE bass than AST..? D: Good to hear about no treble problems!

Can you say if they are smaller or better fitting than ZAX? About the same as DQ6?


----------



## CT007

baskingshark said:


> Look no further than the TRN golden ears at an ultra affordable $15000 USD:
> 
> 
> 
> Only 20 pieces left, don't miss it!!! And don't forget to click the $6 off coupon!!


How much for the wood version..? I wanna try it!!


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> Look no further than the TRN golden ears at an ultra affordable $15000 USD:
> 
> 
> 
> Only 20 pieces left, don't miss it!!! And don't forget to click the $6 off coupon!!


Hahaha. I was commenting about campfire who used bellsing driver and still charge $1000+ for it.


----------



## lushmelody (Jul 5, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Hahaha. I was commenting about campfire who used bellsing driver and still charge $1000+ for it.


it is a marketing world.....


----------



## voicemaster (Jul 5, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> it is a marketing world.....


Iirc, campfire didn't state what driver brand they are using, but people expect campfire to use knowles driver as bellsing is known for budget friendly market. Its like buying a lamborghini but using Toyota engine inside.
Or buying Martin Logan speaker with monoprice parts inside.


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 5, 2021)

CT007 said:


> Cheap as in, the same materials as all the other KZs like AST, DQ6?
> 
> Even MORE bass than AST..? D: Good to hear about no treble problems!
> 
> Can you say if they are smaller or better fitting than ZAX? About the same as DQ6?


Cheap as in feels cheaper than DQ6. Resin used on ZAS is lighter/thinner.

Not sure about AST cause I don't have it, but it's arguably the bassiest IEM I have.

Fits about the same as DQ6, better even, which is quite excellent.


----------



## ephrank

AmericanSpirit said:


> KZ started to mend technicalities for recent releases, you ASX is“hmm not too bad, but not too good” C grade technicalities, AST is “oh wow it’s getting closer to good IEM” B grade technicalities. Main upgrade is separation but there is a marginal upgrade on coherence of overall sound tuning as well.



Itching to try some A-grade technicalities gear. Perhaps I'll try something else, and come back to KZ next year


----------



## mndless

RikudouGoku said:


> Indeed, the DIY foam mod works like a charm on it.
> (literally created the mod with the DQ6 in mind lol.)


I'm still waiting for my parts to come in from AE, but I'm going to be trying out some foam nozzle plugs and tuning paper micropore filters on my CCA CKX. Unfortunately I don't have any measuring gear, so the best I can do is subjective testing. Should still be interesting. I'm also going to be replacing the stock perforated metal wax filters for some proper steel mesh ones. I'll try to post pics of the process if I can manage to get my phone to focus on it. My Note 9's camera must have been overly jostled or something, because the auto-focus really doesn't like me a lot of the time. I'll probably also stick a paper micropore filter on my GD7B to see what that does to it. Might as well test everything, right?


----------



## baskingshark

voicemaster said:


> Hahaha. I was commenting about campfire who used bellsing driver and still charge $1000+ for it.



This Golden Ears TRN probably uses golden BA drivers inside hahaha. Or perhaps could it be a spray painted TRN VX?


----------



## voicemaster

baskingshark said:


> This Golden Ears TRN probably uses golden BA drivers inside hahaha. Or perhaps could it be a spray painted TRN VX?



They might be using this


----------



## Barndoor

RikudouGoku said:


> Indeed, the DIY foam mod works like a charm on it.
> (literally created the mod with the DQ6 in mind lol.)


I'm currently running with Slater's Blon 03 mod on my DQ6. This works well also.


----------



## rayliam80

I just wanted to +1 the @RikudouGoku foam mod for the DQ6. 

I’ve been listening for over a week with a foam mod of sorts. I didn’t have any of the cheap earbud foam covers as recommended, just the Hiegi foams I had from when I bought a few earbuds some years ago. Not sure if they’re thicker or different. I ended up sacrificing a foam cover and started cutting it up into pie slices somewhere between 1/8th and 1/16th. I tried just putting a cut piece inside the eartip against the nozzle but it was too loose and it kept sliding out. I had to dig out a small piece of foam out of my ear a few times so that wasn’t very pleasant. The cut piece of foam was just big enough to be stretched over the nozzle and secured with the ear tip. I found this still to be quite excellent even if isn’t exactly like the mod as recommended. I also don’t have a coupler to provide a FR chart either. But having done this, I’ve found the DQ6 much easier to wear for long listening sessions yet I don’t feel like I’m missing much in terms of the treble/air or the dynamics either. Details are still present. Note weight is on the thicker side but I like that.  In my case, it seems that foam didn’t turn the DQ6 into a muddled mess but just took the edge off a bit in what I perceive to be the upper mids/lower treble. I’m really quite happy with this. It has a warm yet detailed sound. 

FWIW, I’m using AZLA Sedna Short M eartips and the KZ copper-colored 8 core cable.


----------



## RikudouGoku

rayliam80 said:


> I just wanted to +1 the @RikudouGoku foam mod for the DQ6.
> 
> I’ve been listening for over a week with a foam mod of sorts. I didn’t have any of the cheap earbud foam covers as recommended, just the Hiegi foams I had from when I bought a few earbuds some years ago. Not sure if they’re thicker or different. I ended up sacrificing a foam cover and started cutting it up into pie slices somewhere between 1/8th and 1/16th. I tried just putting a cut piece inside the eartip against the nozzle but it was too loose and it kept sliding out. I had to dig out a small piece of foam out of my ear a few times so that wasn’t very pleasant. The cut piece of foam was just big enough to be stretched over the nozzle and secured with the ear tip. I found this still to be quite excellent even if isn’t exactly like the mod as recommended. I also don’t have a coupler to provide a FR chart either. But having done this, I’ve found the DQ6 much easier to wear for long listening sessions yet I don’t feel like I’m missing much in terms of the treble/air or the dynamics either. Details are still present. Note weight is on the thicker side but I like that.  In my case, it seems that foam didn’t turn the DQ6 into a muddled mess but just took the edge off a bit in what I perceive to be the upper mids/lower treble. I’m really quite happy with this. It has a warm yet detailed sound.
> 
> FWIW, I’m using AZLA Sedna Short M eartips and the KZ copper-colored 8 core cable.







Barndoor said:


> I'm currently running with Slater's Blon 03 mod on my DQ6. This works well also.


You mean removing the stock mesh and replacing it with another one? If the stock mesh has damping, it will increase the treble though.


----------



## Barndoor

RikudouGoku said:


> You mean removing the stock mesh and replacing it with another one? If the stock mesh has damping, it will increase the treble though.


Also inserted a strip of dried out alcohol wipe inside the nozzle


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 6, 2021)

UPDATE ON ZAS:

I've been burning them in straight with "Cascade Noise Burn-in" since yesterday. I've tried tip rolling with the available tips I have (from generic, to double-flanged, short stem - wide bore, and foam), only in the end to go back to the "vocal" tips from BQEYZ Summer. Better bass definition and just overall clearer sound, especially in the midrange/treble region.

Interesting thing is that bass seems to have settled down - noticeably more controlled compared to OOTB (but still that godly quantity... that's starting to get a teeeeeny bit tiiiiriiing nooooowwww). Treble's still the same - quite mellow and dare I say, neutral 😲 though definitely isn't well-extended and rolls-off hard (lacks sparkol sparkol). Midrange doesn't exhibit shoutiness (tolerance as well as loudness-dependent) at all and isn't unacceptably artificial throughout the region (noticeable recession and lack of resolution with male vocals which is also a bit nasal). *Stay away from these if you like male vocals.*

Technicalities, excluding detail-retrieval, is decent for the +-60 USD price.

*
TITLE OF REVIEW: TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK*


----------



## nraymond

A couple of days ago I received my KZ AST, and they got to me faster than any AliExpress order ever has! The quality is good, though using the stock eartips is a must I think. Only one of the four pairs of stock eartips works for me. The AST come with an almost cylindrical set of eartips mounted to them which sit pretty far back on the nozzle, and those work the best for me. The sound is balanced and detailed throughout the range with them. The fit is less than perfect though since the silicone used in the tips is so thin, so I can't move too much or they can become loose and the sound will change. In the box are three more pairs of tips in a more traditional cone shape in small, medium, and large, but none of those fit me better. I also tried the following eartips but they all made the AST very bass heavy: Final Audio Type E, Audio Technica ER-CKM55, Elecom EHP-CAP20MBK, Sony EP-EX11, and Spinfit CP360. In comparison, KZ BA10 with Spinfit CP100 Plus work better for me.


----------



## InvisibleInk

nraymond said:


> A couple of days ago I received my KZ AST, and they got to me faster than any AliExpress order ever has! The quality is good, though using the stock eartips is a must I think. Only one of the four pairs of stock eartips works for me. The AST come with an almost cylindrical set of eartips mounted to them which sit pretty far back on the nozzle, and those work the best for me. The sound is balanced and detailed throughout the range with them. The fit is less than perfect though since the silicone used in the tips is so thin, so I can't move too much or they can become loose and the sound will change. In the box are three more pairs of tips in a more traditional cone shape in small, medium, and large, but none of those fit me better. I also tried the following eartips but they all made the AST very bass heavy: Final Audio Type E, Audio Technica ER-CKM55, Elecom EHP-CAP20MBK, Sony EP-EX11, and Spinfit CP360. In comparison, KZ BA10 with Spinfit CP100 Plus work better for me.



Glad you are enjoying it. I'm enjoying mine, too. As for me, I attached a pair of medium AZLA Xelastec tips. I first had to use a pair of SpinFit nozzle adapters before attaching them, otherwise the Xelastecs wouldn't stay on. These are the best KZ IEMs I have yet tried. Worthy successors to the BA10, which can now be retired.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

nraymond said:


> I also tried the following eartips but they all made the AST very bass heavy:



.... AST back on the shopping list.


----------



## artatgray (Jul 7, 2021)

Just posting this here exclusively for my KZ brothers and sisters in arms who might also happen to like Poweramp Equalizer and AutoEQ as well.

The red rectangle in the photo below says it all, but just in case:

"B*oth Equalizer .pa-eq-preset and AutoEQ .txt files are supported. 

AutoEQ graphic and parametric formats supported and imported to the graphic or parametric presets appropriately.

Equalizer adds +6dB to AutoEQ graphic gains" 

https://forum.powerampapp.com/topic/21506-poweramp-equalizer-build-899-907/*

P. S. I'm tripping out using right now on my KZ ZAX listening to Massive Attack... 📱🎧🎶🤘🏾🤓🤘🏾


*

*


----------



## CT007

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> .... AST back on the shopping list.


You took it off..? How kuz? They are my #1 atm, Starsea #2.

I don't know about other tips, but theyre super bassy with stock tips already, so probably with all tips lol.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

CT007 said:


> You took it off..? How kuz? They are my #1 atm, Starsea #2.
> 
> I don't know about other tips, but theyre super bassy with stock tips already, so probably with all tips lol.


 
A long list of petty reasons I can't keep straight, really. The biggest reason was that I wanted to play around and get the full chifi experience before going straight to the AST,  or perhaps another midfi-chad set by starting with some of the awesome dirt-cheap units that kz/cca is well known for. I lusted after KS10 Pros for over a year and, due to free-time constraints,  have only now managed to commit some time to playing with audio stuff again. So I began with CCA C12s, have had that set for coming on 3 months and still really like that pair for hard bob jazz, synthwave, trip-hop, and electronica. I have had a pair of ZAX now for about a week and they're slowly burning-in just from regular use. I'm loving them so far and prefer these over all of my over-ears at the moment, but a bit of that is just because I've not had a good pair of IEMs in the past year, year and half.

The AST's reviewers seemed to have a consensus that they are a dark / warm set, and a lot of the treble sparkle that made KZ famous has been toned down. I'm a bit more indulgent on the vee shape when EQ'ing and, to be quite honest, love the levels of hellfire that the "more neutral tuned" C12s are capable of producing. Indulgences aside, for most listening I tend to use a gentle w shaped wave from neutral more than an actual W shape, and I had been looking for an improvement over the C12 for orchestral, opera, and heavy metal. The ZAX has proven to be very competent for all of those genres I'm not in a particular hurry to usurp them for the moment. 

One thing is certain, and it is the hard fact that I need something, anything to distract my wallet from thinking about Focal over-ears for a few months. Pray tell, what good things does the community have to say about the ZSX-T?   Jokes aside, I think I am going to reverse my position on DQ6 and just order a set just to sample. Because I'm becoming a junkie. I catch myself surfing AliExpress for no good reason at 2 am while in bed. My life will be ruined inside of 6 months if I keep this up.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 7, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'm loving them so far and prefer these over all of my over-ears


Yep, ZAX are really, really good, but a bit problematic in the treb, whereas AST have too much of a good thing(bass) lol. Definitely keep them on your list!!


----------



## nraymond

CT007 said:


> I don't know about other tips, but theyre super bassy with stock tips already, so probably with all tips lol.


Normally I use medium silicone tips, many brands of which give a comfortable seal (as long as the angle of the nozzle is compatible with my ear, which means sometimes SpinFit tips are a big advantage if the IEM nozzle angle isn't compatible). The AST eartips don't seal as much as most silicone tips for me, I think because of the thin silicone used, and I think that's why I hear less bass and a more balanced sound with them. Once I get a good seal with aftermarket tips, yeah the AST have a lot of bass. I can imagine people with different ears could get a better seal with the stock tips, and then I imagine they'd get more bass with those too. One unique thing though with all four pairs of included AST tips is how close the nozzle ends up being to the tip opening. All of the third party tips I tried result in the nozzle being farther back in the tip, which as I understand it will change the resonance of the IEM with the ear canal and move the resonant peaks in the spectrum, so there can also be an impact on treble when you change tips.


----------



## Joseph Lin (Jul 7, 2021)

I have been listening to AST for two weeks and it is really bad. Bloated bass overwhelms everything. It is not worth more than US$20 in my opinion. Even if it is $20, I would not buy it as there are many IEMs perform better than AST at $20 range. I tuned the lower end all the way down and the Treble is still very weak. It is a very warm IEM. I modded the cable and fitted it with 4.4mm balanced plug and it is still very bad. I am using it with Hiby R6 and tuned the tone with MSEB, making it a little bit more tolerable. The first thing I do is to tune overall temperature to -50, now you know how warm it is. Even though the lower end is overwhelming, the sub bass is lacking. I really do not understand how KZ's engineers are able to tune AST to such a bad curve. Stay away from it if you are considering buying it. There are better choices.


----------



## MacAttack7

Joseph Lin said:


> I have been listening to AST for two weeks and it is really bad. Bloated bass overwhelms everything. It is not worth more than US$20 in my opinion. Even if it is $20, I would not buy it as there are many IEMs perform better than AST at $20 range. I tuned the lower end all the way down and the Treble is still very weak. It is a very warm IEM. I modded the cable and fitted it with 4.4mm balanced plug and it is still very bad. I am using it with Hiby R6 and tuned the tone with MSEB, making it a little bit more tolerable. The first thing I do is to tune overall temperature to -50, now you know how warm it is. Even though the lower end is overwhelming, the sub bass is lacking. I really do not understand how KZ's engineers are able to tune AST to such a bad curve. Stay away from it if you are considering buying it. There are better choices.


Which song in particular sounds bad to you, and which parts of the song?
I'll take a listen with mine and see if I get the same impression.
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a warm IEM, so that in itself isn't a fault.
It definitely sounds different than my DQ6.


----------



## lushmelody (Jul 7, 2021)

Joseph Lin said:


> I have been listening to AST for two weeks and it is really bad. Bloated bass overwhelms everything. It is not worth more than US$20 in my opinion. Even if it is $20, I would not buy it as there are many IEMs perform better than AST at $20 range. I tuned the lower end all the way down and the Treble is still very weak. It is a very warm IEM. I modded the cable and fitted it with 4.4mm balanced plug and it is still very bad. I am using it with Hiby R6 and tuned the tone with MSEB, making it a little bit more tolerable. The first thing I do is to tune overall temperature to -50, now you know how warm it is. Even though the lower end is overwhelming, the sub bass is lacking. I really do not understand how KZ's engineers are able to tune AST to such a bad curve. Stay away from it if you are considering buying it. There are better choices.


ouch. did u try changing the eartips? is the imaging (and other qualities) also similar to a $20 iem?


----------



## artatgray

Joseph Lin said:


> I really do not understand how KZ's engineers are able to tune AST to such a bad curve. Stay away from it if you are considering buying it. There are better choices.



If it's tuned like the ASX, which it sounds like it might be, then it's absolutely horrible out of the box. Fortunately for the ASX, however, it responses very well to EQ and has become my favorite KZ due to that. 

I suspect the AST will share a similar fate. I won't be purchasing it until settings appears for it on the AutoEQ github, if at all... 📱🎧🎶🤔


----------



## mndless

Has anyone gotten bored enough to gut one of their KZ or CCA IEMs to replace the KZ/Bellsing drivers with the Knowles drivers they were originally derived from? I've got a dead pair of CCA CKX and I'm honestly tempted to see what it would do.


----------



## forestitalia (Jul 8, 2021)

artatgray said:


> If it's tuned like the ASX, which it sounds like it might be, then it's absolutely horrible out of the box. Fortunately for the ASX, however, it responses very well to EQ and has become my favorite KZ due to that.
> 
> I suspect the AST will share a similar fate. I won't be purchasing it until settings appears for it on the AutoEQ github, if at all... 📱🎧🎶🤔


Yes, you can try to EQ heavily the AST, but the result is an odd sound whatever.
But for me the question is, why I have to twist my system for a wrong earphones? KZ should recall those back.


----------



## artatgray

forestitalia said:


> Yes, you can try to EQ heavily the AST, but the result is an odd sound whatever.



I'm going to differ with you. The result wasn't an "odd sound" with the ASX, and I'd be surprised if it was with the AST. As a matter of fact, the ASX became my favorite KZ after applying the setting from the AutoEQ github.


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 8, 2021)

With all this talk about AutoEQ, I remembered that I had Wavelet installed in my phone.

*Another update on ZAS: IF you really like a lot of bass, get them. Otherwise, don't unless you're open to EQ.*


---

*And so I started running the app: *ASF/ASX preset (almost the same), 50-65% EQ strength on the ZAS. One thing I can say is that these now sound awesome. Just needed to tone down the bass and increase the air frequencies. Also went back to whirlwind tips. Whatever the KZ sound engineers did to the driver/drivers that handle the bass frequencies to reach this deep at this price point is amazing.

---

*Current Rating:

Stock - 3/5
W/ EQ - 4/5*


----------



## forestitalia (Jul 8, 2021)

artatgray said:


> I'm going to differ with you. The result wasn't an "odd sound" with the ASX, and I'd be surprised if it was with the AST. As a matter of fact, the ASX became my favorite KZ after applying the setting from the AutoEQ github.


You just confirm what I said, ASX is bad too and you had to fix it adding a software. I prefer avoid, I don't hold shares of KZ.
however ASX differ from AST, for me sub bass in AST is not good and the EQ makes it odder, of course to my ears.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Both the C12 and the zax respond well to my ears down to 20 Hz on tests I've done with car audio files. With the zax I can perceive down to it's claimed 10hz floor, but it needs to be boosted a bit. Despite reputation for treble fatigue, I think bass is a KZ strength across the board.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Jul 8, 2021)

Here's a couple example tracks for where both the C12 and the ZAX really shine on bass. _Hello Meteor_ has a number of albums that are pleasant ear candy. below are two sweet sounding zen like tracks - no vocals. The C12 especially is just brilliant in this style. I'm surprised I don't hear more about this set on the forum, but I suppose it's because most head-fi'ers don't like to EQ.

First one begins with an acoustic part that fills in with keyboards


this track ... much lush ... such sparkle!  wow


On both sets of IEMs the bass comes across very warm and natural.  subbass extension is there when the soundtrack takes a dip, and then cleanly goes away. Mids and trebles are floating around with plenty of software based reverb already, but it does sound nice. The ZAX has just a touch more sound stage and a more relaxed treble presentation compared to the C12.  I understand per consensus that the ZAX is still hotter than CCA CA16, CKX, or KZ's AST/ASX, but that's one of the reasons I chose this set over those.

I listen mostly on my workstation since I code for a living.  20 band setting, with nothing too extreme really. For my catalog this lone EQ profile is an all-round sweetspot for both sets. I listen at lower volumes and that 48Hz kick ensures that the bottom end doesn't drop out.  I have genre (and sometimes even artist) specific EQ profiles depending on the mood. I find that the ZAX sounds better without any EQ relative to the C12, but after EQ they're close to being a wash until the music gets fast and loud, giving the extra BAs a chance to do their thing.






As a point of reference, my much loved and neutrally curved Shure SE315 held up for 5 years of hard daily use next to my over-ears and they would still be going if I hadn't stepped on one of them and broke the nozzle off. That really got me hooked on BA design with super tight low end and a brilliantly detailed treble range. With shure brand olive tips they really were a pleasure to listen to, so I had no idea what to expect with the crazy driver count in most chifi.  Hands down the Shure's bean like design and hard case had the best noise isolation I've ever experienced. It's too bad they discontinued the 315 because the SE215 sounded terrible to me, and the SE425's price is a bit rich for what it is IMO.  IEMs in the past are Etymotic.  I think the first IEM I recall seeking out was one of the early Sennheiser cx400, back in 2007. That was a nice sounding pair as a city commuter and I recall them being inexpensive. The KZ's wipe the floor with the early Etys I had. I'd be willing to bet that either KSN or ZSX wipe the floor with them also, but that's 14 years of manufacturing and materials improvement in KZ's favor. I haven't tried the new Etymotics. The deep insertion style isn't for me and I didn't really like the triple flange tips that's popular in that brand.


----------



## saldsald

cappuchino said:


> With all this talk about AutoEQ, I remembered that I had Wavelet installed in my phone.
> 
> *Another update on ZAS: IF you really like a lot of bass, get them. Otherwise, don't unless you're open to EQ.*
> 
> ...


I don't find the bass to be that overwhelming gotta say. To me it is the mids just a bit over. Otherwise this is a very decent IEM IMHO. It really shines with classical tracks - very emotional violin, immersive supporting orchestra sound. Male vocal is good not great and female vocal just meh.


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 8, 2021)

saldsald said:


> I don't find the bass to be that overwhelming gotta say. To me it is the mids just a bit over. Otherwise this is a very decent IEM IMHO. It really shines with classical tracks - very emotional violin, immersive supporting orchestra sound. Male vocal is good not great and female vocal just meh.


It's the mid-bass (and in extension, sub-bass) I'm having concerns with when others hear the ZAS. It will be *a lot* for most (although I can still tolerate it and the quantity is quite something especially in rap/hip-hop).

Set-Up: NO EQ
Whirlwind-tips
Earstudio HUD100 MK2
KZ Au, Ag, Cu cable (aesthetics-only)


Yup. Decent. However, the tuning won't work for the majority unless they prefer said signature. There are safer and cheaper options (like their own DQ6 wonder). Not an all-rounder at all and is quite niche.

+Better stock cable
-still same nozzle and unusable tips

+Shell design, comfort, and fit
-Cheap-feeling materials (although there is also acoustics to consider)

+Bass extension (and quantity, if you're a basshead)
-Mellow (and rolled-off) treble is severely affected


----------



## saldsald

cappuchino said:


> It's the mid-bass (and in extension, sub-bass) I'm having concerns with when others hear the ZAS. It will be *a lot* for most (although I can still tolerate it and the quantity is quite something especially in rap/hip-hop).
> 
> Set-Up: NO EQ
> Whirlwind-tips
> ...


If you already have say the DQ6 would you still want another DQ6 or the like? Sometimes I think versatility doesn't have to be the first priority especially for those who have a lot of IEMs. It is very good for some types of music much better than the DQ6 and personally that is all I need from the ZAS.


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 8, 2021)

saldsald said:


> If you already have say the DQ6 would you still want another DQ6 or the like? Sometimes I think versatility doesn't have to be the first priority especially for those who have a lot of IEMs. It is very good for some types of music much better than the DQ6 and personally that is all I need from the ZAS.


Yeah, I do have the DQ6 and what I wish is that they release an update in the future with a more refined treble response and a moved upper midrange peak closer to 3 kHz. They should keep the XUN. I also am factoring in the price of the ZAS with my statements. I'd rather have 1-3 better quality BAs than 7 lesser quality ones in that price range.

I do wonder why KZ is so adamant on using their "own" BAs, multiple ones at that? And just not release a Knowles or Sonion-equipped IEM. Maybe some business contract limitations? (not sure, not knowledgeable in that field)

Knowledge Zenith is definitely showing us the new path they're walking with the ZAS. However, as the KZ ZAS appears to be of the first pages of this new chapter, it's in no way *the* legendary KZ that everyone has been waiting for ever since their past game changers. We can only hope and pray that it gets better from here on (come on, KZ. Please start the electrostatic project 🙏🏻).


Like I said before... Two steps forward, one step back.


----------



## artatgray

forestitalia said:


> You just confirm what I said, ASX is bad too and you had to fix it adding a software. I prefer avoid, I don't hold shares of KZ.



No, I didn't confirm what you said, which was you'll get an odd sound with EQ. My experience with it was otherwise.

Whatever else you're address here regarding "fixing" and "shares in KZ" wasn't what I was discussing, which was EQ not resulting in odd sound and only that.


----------



## forestitalia

I don't know if you have shares, I just noticed that you are pushing those ASX in every forum I went through...


----------



## saldsald

cappuchino said:


> Yeah, I do have the DQ6 and what I wish is that they release an update in the future with a more refined treble response and a moved upper midrange peak closer to 3 kHz. They should keep the XUN. I also am factoring in the price of the ZAS with my statements. I'd rather have 1-3 better quality BAs than 7 lesser quality ones in that price range.
> 
> I do wonder why KZ is so adamant on using their "own" BAs, multiple ones at that? And just not release a Knowles or Sonion-equipped IEM. Maybe some business contract limitations? (not sure, not knowledgeable in that field)
> 
> ...


They are simply just trying to make money by releasing new IEMs. They probably can't get a very different tuning with the XUN. You can see my FR measurement the curves  of CSN and ZAS look very similar. 

It is simply cheaper to use their own BAs. For example the cost of the AST is about the sum of the cost of all the BAs if you buy them separately. They need to keep the cost down. 

Anyway I am building my own IEM with the XUN driver, basically targeted to get more bass response and more refined treble based on the CSN.


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 8, 2021)

saldsald said:


> They are simply just trying to make money by releasing new IEMs. They probably can't get a very different tuning with the XUN. You can see my FR measurement the curves  of CSN and ZAS look very similar.
> 
> It is simply cheaper to use their own BAs. For example the cost of the AST is about the sum of the cost of all the BAs if you buy them separately. They need to keep the cost down.
> 
> Anyway I am building my own IEM with the XUN driver, basically targeted to get more bass response and more refined treble based on the CSN.


In the end, everything's a business. Well, can't blame them. People have mouths to feed.


Soooo excited for your XUN project. Rooting for you to tap it's full potential 😁 

Potential budget endgame 🤔🤭?


----------



## artatgray

forestitalia said:


> I don't know if you have shares, I just noticed that you are pushing those ASX in every forum I went through...


Oh, man! You're a cock! HAHAHAHA HAHA! 😂


----------



## lushmelody

forestitalia said:


> You just confirm what I said, ASX is bad too and you had to fix it adding a software. I prefer avoid, I don't hold shares of KZ.
> however ASX differ from AST, for me sub bass in AST is not good and the EQ makes it odder, of course to my ears.


so you truly hated it. do you have experience with other dark/warm signature sets?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

KZ begin to remind me of toy brands and commercials from the 80's.   "There's no end to the number of creative combinations possible with FURZER BEBES new Patent Pending Snaptastic design. Fun for every taste and disposition - collect 'em all!"  

In other words, I just ordered DQ6.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

cappuchino said:


> Yeah, I do have the DQ6 and what I wish is that they release an update in the future with a more refined treble response and a moved upper midrange peak closer to 3 kHz. They should keep the XUN. I also am factoring in the price of the ZAS with my statements. I'd rather have 1-3 better quality BAs than 7 lesser quality ones in that price range.
> 
> I do wonder why KZ is so adamant on using their "own" BAs, multiple ones at that? And just not release a Knowles or Sonion-equipped IEM. Maybe some business contract limitations? (not sure, not knowledgeable in that field)
> 
> ...


The thing is that treble response is here to stay because that's what works in China for them. And that's what made them *legendary* as well. Because this is what gives those micro details and what not. KZ will always be V-shaped it will either be a cannon with normal DDs or a missile with XUN. With XUN, KZ has actually hit a jackpot that enhances their V-shaped house tuning.

KZ will never ever go for Harman or DF Neutral or other kinds of tunings. Why spoil a tried and tested recipe? And in the market segment they operate, this is what works best. A casual user who is upgrading to a KZ will be immediately blown away by them. It's the audiophile or long term KZ users from outside China who are expecting the unexpected and are being disappointed/left wanting with every release.


----------



## lushmelody

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> The thing is that treble response is here to stay because that's what works in China for them. And that's what made them *legendary* as well. Because this is what gives those micro details and what not. KZ will always be V-shaped it will either be a cannon with normal DDs or a missile with XUN. With XUN, KZ has actually hit a jackpot that enhances their V-shaped house tuning.
> 
> KZ will never ever go for Harman or DF Neutral or other kinds of tunings. Why spoil a tried and tested recipe? And in the market segment they operate, this is what works best. A casual user who is upgrading to a KZ will be immediately blown away by them. It's the audiophile or long term KZ users from outside China who are expecting the unexpected and are being disappointed/left wanting with every release.


are you implying they should stay in their comfort zone? what innovations would that bring?


----------



## mndless

lushmelody said:


> are you implying they should stay in their comfort zone? what innovations would that bring?


I'd personally be thrilled if they refined the CCA CKX even more. If they managed to even out some of the peaks in the lower treble, give it some more treble extension, and make the sub-bass slam even more, then it would be a pretty easy sell for me at up to $150.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> The thing is that treble response is here to stay because that's what works in China for them. And that's what made them *legendary* as well. Because this is what gives those micro details and what not. KZ will always be V-shaped it will either be a cannon with normal DDs or a missile with XUN. With XUN, KZ has actually hit a jackpot that enhances their V-shaped house tuning.


Having been to China and worked with Chinese folk for decades, I think there's a lot of truth in here.  Traditional Chinese string instruments are plucked, high pitched, and have very little natural resonance to speak of. Vocals likewise tend to be in a high register compared to western music. Younger Chinese folk still listen to lots of rock, rap, and synth based music same us western folk, but their calibration for what sounds "good" is probably a lot different than your average youtube reviewer. (not that that's a bad thing, just different).


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

lushmelody said:


> are you implying they should stay in their comfort zone? what innovations would that bring?


That's how KZ has been maintaining their business for last decade or so. They never innovated anything. Why would they innovate when their current products are head and shoulders above competition in terms of sales? If you ran a business, would you cater to a market with a billion customers or a few hundred thousand hobbyists abroad? It's not even a question. They will always cater and innovate basis what works in China. And, in a way new Black BA and XUN are their 'innovations' of sorts which is in response to the local competition. They will innovate basis their competition and not to create something path-breaking.

KZ is not only a retailer of IEMs. They OEM and ODM for other brands as well and that's where their real margins and profits are coming from. I'm saying it will take something tectonic for KZ to deviate from their bright-V signature.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Having been to China and worked with Chinese folk for decades, I think there's a lot of truth in here.  Traditional Chinese string instruments are plucked, high pitched, and have very little natural resonance to speak of. Vocals likewise tend to be in a high register compared to western music. Younger Chinese folk still listen to lots of rock, rap, and synth based music same us western folk, but their calibration for what sounds "good" is probably a lot different than your average youtube reviewer. (not that that's a bad thing, just different).



Exactly! It's how they hear and perceive sound is very different from westerners. They generally like their sounds to be bright because it probably means clarity and details for them. Or maybe that's what is 'accurate' for them. In my country, masses like bassy sound signature with mild gain at 4-5k. Many regions/people have their own benchmark of what's good and what's not.


----------



## paulwasabii

This might be interesting to some people here who want to explore the variation or lack of in KZ's house tuning over the past couple of years.  I have measured the sets that I have here:  https://pw.squig.link/?share=KZ_ZSX,KZ_ZAX


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

paulwasabii said:


> This might be interesting to some people here who want to explore the variation or lack of in KZ's house tuning over the past couple of years.  I have measured the sets that I have here:  https://pw.squig.link/?share=KZ_ZSX,KZ_ZAX


This is a fantastic tool. If you have developed this then kudos to you! Except ZSR, all of them have more or less same treble.


----------



## MacAttack7

paulwasabii said:


> This might be interesting to some people here who want to explore the variation or lack of in KZ's house tuning over the past couple of years.  I have measured the sets that I have here:  https://pw.squig.link/?share=KZ_ZSX,KZ_ZAX


I'm not up to snuff on my chart reading, but say you are comparing ASX to DQ6.
They are drastically different from 6200k to 1100k.
Does that make one better than the other, or is that just pointing out that ASX is warm and DQ6 is bright?


----------



## paulwasabii

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> This is a fantastic tool. If you have developed this then kudos to you! Except ZSR, all of them have more or less same treble.


Thanks, nope, I had no hand in development.  Just helped along by some generous folks here @MRSallee and @RikudouGoku 


MacAttack7 said:


> I'm not up to snuff on my chart reading, but say you are comparing ASX to DQ6.
> They are drastically different from 6200k to 1100k.
> Does that make one better than the other, or is that just pointing out that ASX is warm and DQ6 is bright?


One thing to note about my graphs and nearly all the other graphs from hobbyists with IEC711 couplers, there is usually an 8K peak from coupler resonance so that will introduce some variation in that range.  Some people care more about the pre-8K parts of the graph due to this artifact.  Always a good read is Crinacles post on it: https://crinacle.com/2020/04/08/graphs-101-how-to-read-headphone-measurements/


----------



## lushmelody (Jul 8, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> That's how KZ has been maintaining their business for last decade or so. They never innovated anything. Why would they innovate when their current products are head and shoulders above competition in terms of sales? If you ran a business, would you cater to a market with a billion customers or a few hundred thousand hobbyists abroad? It's not even a question. They will always cater and innovate basis what works in China. And, in a way new Black BA and XUN are their 'innovations' of sorts which is in response to the local competition. They will innovate basis their competition and not to create something path-breaking.
> 
> KZ is not only a retailer of IEMs. They OEM and ODM for other brands as well and that's where their real margins and profits are coming from. I'm saying it will take something tectonic for KZ to deviate from their bright-V signature.


you might consider the "BLON lesson" though. i think its very reasonable why KZ is trying to deviate from their usual harshness. new drivers might get more technicalities in less treble extension. i personally don't condemn their new tunings, i hope it gets better and better over time


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> you might consider the "BLON lesson" though. i think its very reasonable why KZ is trying to deviate from their usual harshness. new drivers might get more technicalities in less treble extension. i personally don't condemn their new tunings, i hope it gets better and better over time


Yes but the better will be very different for westerners and Chinese. It all depends on which 'better' KZ chooses.


----------



## mndless

lushmelody said:


> you might consider the "BLON lesson" though. i think its very reasonable why KZ is trying to deviate from their usual harshness. new drivers might get more technicalities in less treble extension. i personally don't condemn their new tunings, i hope it gets better and better over time


The thing I have to wonder about with KZ is that they roll out three or more new IEMs each year, but they're all tuned similarly or have very peculiar, off-putting tuning schemes. I have to wonder why they don't just release an alternate revision of one of them that more closely fits a western tuning like the Harmon 2019 curve. They likely wouldn't even need to change their driver selections, just adding in fabric tuning filters on their mid-treble and treble extension drivers and adjusting the crossover network slightly to retune the upper mids to treble gain. So it would be a relatively minor expense, all things considered, but it would open up more markets.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

mndless said:


> The thing I have to wonder about with KZ is that they roll out three or more new IEMs each year, but they're all tuned similarly or have very peculiar, off-putting tuning schemes. I have to wonder why they don't just release an alternate revision of one of them that more closely fits a western tuning like the Harmon 2019 curve. They likely wouldn't even need to change their driver selections, just adding in fabric tuning filters on their mid-treble and treble extension drivers and adjusting the crossover network slightly to retune the upper mids to treble gain. So it would be a relatively minor expense, all things considered, but it would open up more markets.


I suppose KZ is following Vsonic's footsteps of solely focusing on the local market and global markets will just be an add-on in their grand scheme of things.


----------



## mndless

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I suppose KZ is following Vsonic's footsteps of solely focusing on the local market and global markets will just be an add-on in their grand scheme of things.


Well, they do have CCA which released the CKX. While it certainly isn't Harmon tuned, it's a bit less stabbey compared the KZ's usually offerings. Whenever my tuning paper filters and foam tuning plugs arrive, I'll attempt some additional manual tuning on my CKX and see what I can manage for them.


----------



## MacAttack7

paulwasabii said:


> Thanks, nope, I had no hand in development.  Just helped along by some generous folks here @MRSallee and @RikudouGoku
> 
> One thing to note about my graphs and nearly all the other graphs from hobbyists with IEC711 couplers, there is usually an 8K peak from coupler resonance so that will introduce some variation in that range.  Some people care more about the pre-8K parts of the graph due to this artifact.  Always a good read is Crinacles post on it: https://crinacle.com/2020/04/08/graphs-101-how-to-read-headphone-measurements/


After reading that post by Crinacle I no longer have any interest in graphs. 
I had no idea how complicated it was, and how many variables are involved.
I'll just keep donating my money to KZ and hope I get lucky.


----------



## mndless

MacAttack7 said:


> After reading that post by Crinacle I no longer have any interest in graphs.
> I had no idea how complicated it was, and how many variables are involved.
> I'll just keep donating my money to KZ and hope I get lucky.


You can typically use graphs to gauge when there are any serious tuning crimes, particularly if you know there's a signature you're looking for, but they are never really going to offer you a 100% measure of whether you will like an IEM or not. I mainly use them to check on bass vs. treble gain, since I am treble sensitive and prefer a more bass-heavy signature. They can also be useful to look at how they're handling the mids transition from bass and into treble. Sharp transitions either side are a bit of a turn-off for me, but everyone has their own preferences, especially if they have a music library that calls for a particular type of tuning with those pronounced transitions.


----------



## MacAttack7

mndless said:


> You can typically use graphs to gauge when there are any serious tuning crimes, particularly if you know there's a signature you're looking for, but they are never really going to offer you a 100% measure of whether you will like an IEM or not. I mainly use them to check on bass vs. treble gain, since I am treble sensitive and prefer a more bass-heavy signature. They can also be useful to look at how they're handling the mids transition from bass and into treble. Sharp transitions either side are a bit of a turn-off for me, but everyone has their own preferences, especially if they have a music library that calls for a particular type of tuning with those pronounced transitions.


But how can there be tuning crimes when the engineers designing the IEM's have the same graphs and even better measuring equipment?
If the graph looks a certain way it would seem that they intended for it to look that way, and for it to sound a certain way.
It just seems strange to me that a bunch of non-professional reviewers look at a graph and point out where the professional engineers screwed up.
Why would they intentionally put out an IEM with a screwed-up graph and sound if they can easily see the graph and hear it for themselves before releasing it?


----------



## mndless (Jul 8, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> But how can there be tuning crimes when the engineers designing the IEM's have the same graphs and even better measuring equipment?
> If the graph looks a certain way it would seem that they intended for it to look that way, and for it to sound a certain way.
> It just seems strange to me that a bunch of non-professional reviewers look at a graph and point out where the professional engineers screwed up.
> Why would they intentionally put out an IEM with a screwed-up graph and sound if they can easily see the graph and hear it for themselves before releasing it?


Just because the sound engineers tuning a set intend for it to sound a specific way doesn't mean that there aren't tuning crimes involved that can, for instance, make everything but a very specific subset of music genres sound like absolute trash. Take, for instance, the Campfire Honeydew. It's an attractive little set with the tuning crime of an *EXTREME* bass gain. It sounds good on a handful of music genres, but apparently it garbles male vocals and makes it sound like they've eaten a mini subwoofer. As much as I love a good bassline, this graph frightens me. But from what gizaudio says, it's a fun set with a thunderous bassline that is nice to have for those times when you want to drown yourself in bass while still having some details hiding out in the treble.






Edit for clarification: If the Campfire Honeydew were cheaper, like in the $65-70 range instead of $250, I would definitely consider purchasing a set just for the novelty factor and because I love their charming little orange shells. But at that price, unless you're flush with cash or got them on an astonishingly good sale, these just aren't viable for the average consumer. They aren't something you just shell out for on a lark. This is especially true for the people in this forum thread where the most expensive IEM from KZ is half the cost of this model. For even more examples, check out the graphs for some of these other sets:



An $800 set this time from Earsonics with a massive bass shelf, but severely carved out lower mids, which makes them appropriate for a limited library of songs.



For an even more egregious set, we look at the RA C-Cu from oBravo. Honestly, if the 6K dip was from a measurement anomaly, I'm pretty sure Crinacle would have adjusted his setup until it hit at 8K like he tries to target. Aside from that, we get a 10dB channel gap at 130Hz, and massively recessed sub-bass. This aligns with Crinacle's actual review of this nearly $10,000 set. He was not happy about it, given all the hype and goodwill the brand has.


----------



## Joseph Lin

MacAttack7 said:


> Which song in particular sounds bad to you, and which parts of the song?
> I'll take a listen with mine and see if I get the same impression.
> I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a warm IEM, so that in itself isn't a fault.
> It definitely sounds different than my DQ6.


All songs! It is too warm, I mean with the price tag this is really bad, not even worth tuning. I do not know why I was tempted to purchase it since I have many good IEMs already.


----------



## Joseph Lin

lushmelody said:


> ouch. did u try changing the eartips? is the imaging (and other qualities) also similar to a $20 iem?


I tried many tips but why bother? It is a more than $100 IEM depending on where you purchase it from. The manufacturing quality is good but it missed the mark. No matter how pretty it is, if it does not sound good why pay more than $20? For decoration?


----------



## Joseph Lin

artatgray said:


> If it's tuned like the ASX, which it sounds like it might be, then it's absolutely horrible out of the box. Fortunately for the ASX, however, it responses very well to EQ and has become my favorite KZ due to that.
> 
> I suspect the AST will share a similar fate. I won't be purchasing it until settings appears for it on the AutoEQ github, if at all... 📱🎧🎶🤔


Don't buy it...it is not worth it.


----------



## MacAttack7

_"For an even more egregious set, we look at the RA C-Cu from oBravo. Honestly, if the 6K dip was from a measurement anomaly, I'm pretty sure Crinacle would have adjusted his setup until it hit at 8K like he tries to target. Aside from that, we get a 10dB channel gap at 130Hz, and massively recessed sub-bass. This aligns with Crinacle's actual review of this nearly $10,000 set. He was not happy about it, given all the hype and goodwill the brand has."_

I wish there could be a debate between Crinacle and the guy who designed this RA C-Cu.
I find it hard to believe they created a $10,000 IEM that is no better than some mainstream $50 IEM, so I would love to hear an explanation.
The earphone business is so strange. It seems like there is barely any relationship between price and performance.


----------



## paulwasabii

KZ SK10 is now listed for sale.  Looks nice, a Z3 without the AptX. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002960895422.html


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## mndless (Jul 9, 2021)

Finally got my parts in from AliExpress, so I've been testing different tuning options for my CCA CKX. The CKX has always had close to perfect tuning for me, but my treble sensitivity has led me to want just that tiny bit of treble reduction and smoothing, possibly with a bit of bass gain as well. To this end, I ordered some new metal mesh wax filters, paper/fabric tuning filters, and two different densities of foam tuning plugs. I first tried tuning them by removing their existing perforated metal wax guard and jamming a high density foam plug in the nozzle next to the TWFK 30095, then installing a #400 tuning filter to the backside of the replacement wax guard aligned over the BA in the nozzle. This definitely showed that tuning in this manual, passive way would be possible on this IEM, as it dramatically cut down the treble response, but it also ended up cutting down the mids way too much and boosting the bass overmuch. The treble also lost a fair bit of it's sparkle. So I decided to try again. I removed the wax guard and salvaged it for reuse by removing the tuning filter from it. I removed the high density foam tuning plug and decided to try installing a low density one in a slightly different manner. This time I used a pick to poke a hole in the foam and tore out the side to create a split in the foam tuning plug. I used this split to wrap the foam around the nozzle of the BA driver, ensuring a good seal without bunching up the foam and changing how dense it was. You can just barely see the foam in the nozzle in this pic:




You can also see the new #200 fabric tuning filter stuck, off-center onto the back of the wax guard. The 4.7mm wax guard ended up being the size that worked for the CKX. These wax guards are extremely finely woven stainless steel and offer a non-trivial amount of treble smoothing and reduction on their own. Something like .75-1dB of treble reduction just from those wax guards.



And now with everything installed. They sound fantastic to my ears. Treble has been cut by about 1.5-2dB, but more importantly, I don't hear any of the treble spikes that had bothered me about their stock tuning. The bass to mids transition feels smoother and there's been about a 1.5-2dB sub-bass to bass gain. They still have that lovely sparkle in the treble. Female vocals sound great and aren't fatiguing like they were before, but male vocals haven't been diminished either. They're still coherent and I feel like the soundstage has expanded a fair bit. I tested them with this song before and it sounded like the microphone was inside a box that they were dropping the marbles in, but now it sounds like they're dropping the marbles on a wooden floor in a decent sized room.

All in all, if you're treble-sensitive like I am, I can highly recommend this modification.

Edit: trying to fix the AE links because posting from mobile just ruins all the good things.


----------



## Mouseman

paulwasabii said:


> KZ SK10 is now listed for sale.  Looks nice, a Z3 without the AptX. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002960895422.html


6.5 hours? Now we're getting somewhere. But that metal rim is tacky...


----------



## paulwasabii

Mouseman said:


> 6.5 hours? Now we're getting somewhere. But that metal rim is tacky...


Seems to be their new design theme? Looks like the ZAS.  6.5 hours is great compared to 3 hours max from their 2020 releases.


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 8, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> The earphone business is so strange. It seems like there is barely any relationship between price and performance.



Yes there's not really a correlation between price and performance. Or at least not linearly. Budget-midfi is where the sweet spot of price to performance ratio is. There's really huge diminishing returns once u go up the ladder to pursue TOTL sets.

Even TOTL sets have weaknesses and ballpark I would say they have 10 to 30% better performance than midfi sets, but cost 10x or more.

So at the end of the day, just set a budget for yourself and be happy. There's always gonna be a new hypetrain every week, things move so fast in chifiland that what you bought today can be obsolete in a matter of weeks. Some folks wanna chase that last 10 to 30% sonic improvement at all costs, but most others are happy with price to performance ratio of budget-midfi gear.


----------



## r31ya

The problem being the price/performance line is a steep curve after passing budget midfi.



Mouseman said:


> 6.5 hours? Now we're getting somewhere. But that metal rim is tacky...


This is what i waiting for. Bigger battery in the iem and less thirsty bluetooth chip

If then they add CVC system for the microphonics and at least AAC or APTX it would be awesome.


----------



## chinmie

Mouseman said:


> 6.5 hours? Now we're getting somewhere. But that metal rim is tacky...



yup, granted that today's 5.2 tws standard seems to shift to the 10 hours area, but i still think 6 hours would be enough in daily scenarios


----------



## mndless

chinmie said:


> yup, granted that today's 5.2 tws standard seems to shift to the 10 hours area, but i still think 6 hours would be enough in daily scenarios


I love my FiiO LC-BT2 because of it's up to 24 hour battery life. I love rarely needing to recharge it while I'm trying to listen to something like youtube videos or audiobooks, etc. I also appreciate that the LC-BT2 supports operating while charging. Just one of the side benefits of a neck band style of wireless adapter.


----------



## mndless

r31ya said:


> The problem being the price/performance line is a steep curve after passing budget midfi.
> 
> 
> This is what i waiting for. Bigger battery in the iem and less thirsty bluetooth chip
> ...


I've gotten to the point where I just won't bother buying anything that lacks LDAC support. You get so much more resolution in the bass and the treble doesn't fall off immediately after 14kHz.


----------



## mndless

baskingshark said:


> Yes there's not really a correlation between price and performance. Or at least not linearly. Budget-midfi is where the sweet spot of price to performance ratio is. There's really huge diminishing returns once u go up the ladder to pursue TOTL sets.
> 
> Even TOTL sets have weaknesses and ballpark I would say they have 10 to 30% better performance than midfi sets, but cost 10x or more.
> 
> So at the end of the day, just set a budget for yourself and be happy. There's always gonna be a new hypetrain every week, things move so fast in chifiland that what you bought today can be obsolete in a matter of weeks. Some folks wanna chase that last 10 to 30% sonic improvement at all costs, but most others are happy with price to performance ratio of budget-midfi gear.


Chi-fi mid-fi sets range up to nearly $800. After that point the diminishing returns really cease to make fiscal sense. I mean, dropping more than $400 on a set of IEMs is already at the turning point of return on investment. It really does depend on how willing you are to chase those diminishing returns. I just can't wait for someone, maybe KZ, to put pressure on the market with EST equipped budget options that aren't tuned like an EKG. I'm looking at you, Shuoer and BGVP with your Singer, Tape, Tape Pro, and Zero models. The fact that they include electrets at all is impressive, but their treble is just so weirdly tuned.


----------



## baskingshark

mndless said:


> Chi-fi mid-fi sets range up to nearly $800. After that point the diminishing returns really cease to make fiscal sense. I mean, dropping more than $400 on a set of IEMs is already at the turning point of return on investment. It really does depend on how willing you are to chase those diminishing returns. I just can't wait for someone, maybe KZ, to put pressure on the market with EST equipped budget options that aren't tuned like an EKG. I'm looking at you, Shuoer and BGVP with your Singer, Tape, Tape Pro, and Zero models. The fact that they include electrets at all is impressive, but their treble is just so weirdly tuned.



Just wait a few years, I'm sure the day will come when we can get EST for cheap. And I don't mean fakely marketed EST like the Shuoer models which are actually electrets/magnetostats instead of legit EST.

Just 3 - 4 years back, a single driver western IEM would be around $100USD, a multi driver would be $250 or north of that. Nowadays we are so blessed to get budget hybrids below $30 USD that don't sound that bad. We are already in a kinda golden age for CHIFI IEMs, budget/midfi CHIFI have already caught up or overtaken western/boutique brands in terms of price to performance ratio. No need to sell a kidney to fund this hobby now.

One can even argue CHIFI is breaching the TOTL segment eg DUNU LUNA, QDC Anole VX, those sets can stand toe to toe with western SUMMITFI brands, so I'm sure market forces will make it a survival of the fittest kinda thing, especially in this covid economy. Some western brands have been affected quite badly by covid, like being sold off or not doing well eg Sennheiser, Audiofly etc. But one thing CHIFI needs to get more consistency is in the area of QC. The sneaky thing is that most of the western brands are made in China anyways, but I think these western brands have a bit more focus on QC before they release their stuff, due to the need to maintain their branding image. CHIFI is kinda fly by night for some smaller companies, getting warranty and returns may be a problem, but hopefully it will improve, especially for the more established CHIFI brands.


----------



## mndless

baskingshark said:


> Just wait a few years, I'm sure the day will come when we can get EST for cheap. And I don't mean fakely marketed EST like the Shuoer models which are actually electrets/magnetostats instead of legit EST.
> 
> Just 3 - 4 years back, a single driver western IEM would be around $100USD, a multi driver would be $250 or north of that. Nowadays we are so blessed to get budget hybrids below $30 USD that don't sound that bad. We are already in a kinda golden age for CHIFI IEMs, budget/midfi CHIFI have already caught up or overtaken western/boutique brands in terms of price to performance ratio. No need to sell a kidney to fund this hobby now.
> 
> One can even argue CHIFI is breaching the TOTL segment eg DUNU LUNA, QDC Anole VX, those sets can stand toe to toe with western SUMMITFI brands, so I'm sure market forces will make it a survival of the fittest kinda thing, especially in this covid economy. Some western brands have been affected quite badly by covid, like being sold off or not doing well eg Sennheiser, Audiofly etc. But one thing CHIFI needs to get more consistency is in the area of QC. The sneaky thing is that most of the western brands are made in China anyways, but I think these western brands have a bit more focus on QC before they release their stuff, due to the need to maintain their branding image. CHIFI is kinda fly by night for some smaller companies, getting warranty and returns may be a problem, but hopefully it will improve, especially for the more established CHIFI brands.


Absolutely. I don't expect bargain basement EST/electret drivers in the near future. Development takes time, especially if you're serious about releasing a product to really challenge the established TOTL products. But look how far we've come when a relatively recent entrant like Linsoul's Thieaudio can drop $530 IEMs that can legitimately stomp all over IEMs literally three times their price. We're getting there, and we're getting there much faster than anyone reasonably expected us to, and it's so exciting that sometimes you forget how much time these things should take and you develop these unreasonable expectations. The future for the audiophile community is surprisingly bright despite the plague that crushed some of our beloved brands. There's so much to look forward to, and hopefully improvements to QC in the cheaper product segments will be one of those things.


----------



## forestitalia (Jul 9, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> so you truly hated it. do you have experience with other dark/warm signature sets?


Don't hate anything, plus now Amazon agreed to take the AST back (first time I return a device). Mostly I'm fascinated by the defender of brand around here whatever.
I have another 12 earphones, some from KZ, of which I'm satisfied, ZAX, ZSX, KZ10pro.. DQ6 are warm, warmer signature maybe the Meze Solo, they are quite good.
Surely my expectations were higher passing from 50 to an asking price of 130$, then got a pair of earphones that can't reproduce cymbals properly, is still hi-fi?


----------



## mndless

forestitalia said:


> Don't hate anything, plus now Amazon agreed to take the AST back (first time I return a device). Mostly I'm fascinated by the defender of brand around here whatever.
> I have another 12 earphones, some from KZ, of which I'm satisfied, ZAX, ZSX, KZ10pro.. DQ6 are warm, warmer signature maybe the Meze Solo, they are quite good.
> Surely my expectations were higher passing from 50 to an asking price of 130$, then got a pair of earphones that can't reproduce cymbals properly, is still hi-fi?


I noped out just from the graphs. They looked way too weird for me to drop $130 on it. Even if Amazon has excellent customer service, I dislike abusing it due to my own poor choices. I don't much like purchasing earphones that I know ahead of time will require significant EQ to sound right.


----------



## dw1narso

mndless said:


> Finally got my parts in from AliExpress, so I've been testing different tuning options for my CCA CKX. The CKX has always had close to perfect tuning for me, but my treble sensitivity has led me to want just that tiny bit of treble reduction and smoothing, possibly with a bit of bass gain as well. To this end, I ordered some new metal mesh wax filters, paper/fabric tuning filters, and two different densities of foam tuning plugs. I first tried tuning them by removing their existing perforated metal wax guard and jamming a high density foam plug in the nozzle next to the TWFK 30095, then installing a #400 tuning filter to the backside of the replacement wax guard aligned over the BA in the nozzle. This definitely showed that tuning in this manual, passive way would be possible on this IEM, as it dramatically cut down the treble response, but it also ended up cutting down the mids way too much and boosting the bass overmuch. The treble also lost a fair bit of it's sparkle. So I decided to try again. I removed the wax guard and salvaged it for reuse by removing the tuning filter from it. I removed the high density foam tuning plug and decided to try installing a low density one in a slightly different manner. This time I used a pick to poke a hole in the foam and tore out the side to create a split in the foam tuning plug. I used this split to wrap the foam around the nozzle of the BA driver, ensuring a good seal without bunching up the foam and changing how dense it was. You can just barely see the foam in the nozzle in this pic:
> 
> You can also see the new #200 fabric tuning filter stuck, off-center onto the back of the wax guard. The 4.7mm wax guard ended up being the size that worked for the CKX. These wax guards are extremely finely woven stainless steel and offer a non-trivial amount of treble smoothing and reduction on their own. Something like .75-1dB of treble reduction just from those wax guards.
> 
> ...



Very interesting tweaks... I'm interested to CKX after seeing this tweak... 

BTW, did you mean to share links on your sentence above?  ".....  new metal mesh wax filters, paper/fabric tuning filters, and two different densities of foam tuning plugs." Cause when I click the link I went nowhere... or got blocked message...


----------



## mndless

dw1narso said:


> Very interesting tweaks... I'm interested to CKX after seeing this tweak...
> 
> BTW, did you mean to share links on your sentence above?  ".....  new metal mesh wax filters, paper/fabric tuning filters, and two different densities of foam tuning plugs." Cause when I click the link I went nowhere... or got blocked message...


Well that's irritating. Let me go back through and try to fix them. The struggle of posting from mobile.


----------



## mndless

dw1narso said:


> Very interesting tweaks... I'm interested to CKX after seeing this tweak...
> 
> BTW, did you mean to share links on your sentence above?  ".....  new metal mesh wax filters, paper/fabric tuning filters, and two different densities of foam tuning plugs." Cause when I click the link I went nowhere... or got blocked message...


Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Went on PC and fixed them properly in the previous post.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

forestitalia said:


> Don't hate anything, plus now Amazon agreed to take the AST back (first time I return a device). Mostly I'm fascinated by the defender of brand around here whatever.
> I have another 12 earphones, some from KZ, of which I'm satisfied, ZAX, ZSX, KZ10pro.. DQ6 are warm, warmer signature maybe the Meze Solo, they are quite good.
> Surely my expectations were higher passing from 50 to an asking price of 130$, then got a pair of earphones that can't reproduce cymbals properly, is still hi-fi?





mndless said:


> I noped out just from the graphs. They looked way too weird for me to drop $130 on it. Even if Amazon has excellent customer service, I dislike abusing it due to my own poor choices. I don't much like purchasing earphones that I know ahead of time will require significant EQ to sound right.



Agree with you both 100%. knowing my own ears, I have not once, not ever EQ'd a pair of earphones to negative dB in the treble region. Even back in the 80's with young ears on the oldest of Sony walkmans with 5 band eq I've always set a V shape.  It was same for car stereos and aftermarket EQ/Amp units that was all the rage in the 90s. So when a pair of new IEM come across with tons of negative reviews for being dark, I just avoid them. Some folks are happy with their sets of ASX and AST and that's all good. There are billions of ears and only thousands of models to choose from.  Capitalism, w00t!!


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

paulwasabii said:


> This might be interesting to some people here who want to explore the variation or lack of in KZ's house tuning over the past couple of years.  I have measured the sets that I have here:  https://pw.squig.link/?share=KZ_ZSX,KZ_ZAX



Thanks for posting this link, Paul. This is interesting - despite not being the "xun" driver, the old 10mm on the ZAX charts identically up through 2 kHz.  The falloff on the twin dynamic 6mm of the DQ6 looks dramatic. I suppose they were trying to cut out some of the treble while not killing the soundstage. 

I'm really curious about how the DQ6 plays on jazz and classical to hear how the timbre on horns and high strings compares to the KZs house BA units.  The rest looks identical.


----------



## paulwasabii

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Thanks for posting this link, Paul. This is interesting - despite not being the "xun" driver, the old 10mm on the ZAX charts identically up through 2 kHz.  The falloff on the twin dynamic 6mm of the DQ6 looks dramatic. I suppose they were trying to cut out some of the treble while not killing the soundstage.
> 
> I'm really curious about how the DQ6 plays on jazz and classical to hear how the timbre on horns and high strings compares to the KZs house BA units.  The rest looks identical.


For me, it has been educational graphing KZ and TRN sets that I would swear are quite different yet graph almost the same as these two.  Reminds me that the graph doesn't capture everything we hear.  I think the ZAX and DQ6 did have a trait in common, people that left KZ products came back for these two and said they are more natural than prior KZ units.  More so on the DQ6 as it has no BA and more affordable to buy on a whim.  The DQ6 seemed to be well-liked outside of this thread and I don't think that would have happened if the timbre was older KZ BA metallic.

With the IEC711 coupler, there is an 8K peak and anything after 10khz should be considered less accurate.  That is really the limitation of these affordable couplers.


----------



## moisespr123

paulwasabii said:


> For me, it has been educational graphing KZ and TRN sets that I would swear are quite different yet graph almost the same as these two.  Reminds me that the graph doesn't capture everything we hear.  I think the ZAX and DQ6 did have a trait in common, people that left KZ products came back for these two and said they are more natural than prior KZ units.  More so on the DQ6 as it has no BA and more affordable to buy on a whim.  The DQ6 seemed to be well-liked outside of this thread and I don't think that would have happened if the timbre was older KZ BA metallic.
> 
> With the IEC711 coupler, there is an 8K peak and anything after 10khz should be considered less accurate.  That is really the limitation of these affordable couplers.


Oh yes, definitely I vote for the DQ6. The sound is simply very pleasant on it with no harshness at all. I can also say that the sound is, well, "dynamic"


----------



## RikudouGoku

moisespr123 said:


> Oh yes, definitely I vote for the DQ6. The sound is simply very pleasant on it with no harshness at all. I can also say that the sound is, well, "dynamic"





Upper-mids to lower-treble can definitely be sharp sometimes. Which is why this mod takes care of it.


----------



## moisespr123

RikudouGoku said:


> Upper-mids to lower-treble can definitely be sharp sometimes. Which is why this mod takes care of it.



No harshness for me but then again I'm using the Xelastec eartips.


----------



## MacAttack7 (Jul 9, 2021)

forestitalia said:


> Don't hate anything, plus now Amazon agreed to take the AST back (first time I return a device). Mostly I'm fascinated by the defender of brand around here whatever.
> I have another 12 earphones, some from KZ, of which I'm satisfied, ZAX, ZSX, KZ10pro.. DQ6 are warm, warmer signature maybe the Meze Solo, they are quite good.
> Surely my expectations were higher passing from 50 to an asking price of 130$, then got a pair of earphones that can't reproduce cymbals properly, is still hi-fi?


Can you give an example of a song that does not "reproduce cymbals properly"?
I tried some sample music with cymbals and they sound good to me.

At 38:50 there are some cymbals.


This is probably a better test. 
The cymbals are definitely brighter sounding on my other earphones.
I'm not sure if the different, darker sound of the AST is just different or bad.


----------



## Mouseman

RikudouGoku said:


> Upper-mids to lower-treble can definitely be sharp sometimes. Which is why this mod takes care of it.


I may have missed it - what mod?


----------



## artatgray

paulwasabii said:


> Reminds me that the graph doesn't capture everything we hear.



I'm not taking aim at you personally with the following, but the assertion in general as I've read/heard it from a number of different sources:

Lab grade audio analyzers are far more sensitive than human hearing, and a frequency response graph is only one part of the story. They still require some knowledge to interpret properly and correlate with perceptions regardless. Acoustic engineers of various stripe typically possess this type of knowledge. 

Target deviation (from whatever one's target might be - Ex. Harman, Diffuse Field, etc.), group delay, distortion levels, and power handling are also necessary for a complete picture.


----------



## mndless

Mouseman said:


> I may have missed it - what mod?


It's the green line vs the stock blue line. He took a wedge of acoustic foam from an earbud tip cover and jammed it into the eartip, wedging it in place with the nozzle of the earphone. You can do something similar on a more permanent basis by pulling off the wax guard filter, jamming an acoustic tuning foam plug into the end of the nozzle, then replacing the wax guard filter. I did this on some CCA CKX, along with adding a fabric tuning filter to knock off the treble peaks from the 30095 BA in the nozzle.


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Thanks for posting this link, Paul. This is interesting - despite not being the "xun" driver, the old 10mm on the ZAX charts identically up through 2 kHz.  The falloff on the twin dynamic 6mm of the DQ6 looks dramatic. I suppose they were trying to cut out some of the treble while not killing the soundstage.
> 
> I'm really curious about how the DQ6 plays on jazz and classical to hear how the timbre on horns and high strings compares to the KZs house BA units.  The rest looks identical.


I'm not sure how the newer generation of their BA drivers compares to the ones in the CCA CKX, but their timbre is acceptable. Still not as neutral and accurate as actual Knowles or Sonion units, but not terrible, depending on how they use them. Tuned too hot like they do in some of their units and I expect the disparity between them and the real brand units will become more apparent, but they can definitely make some pretty great sounding sets when they try. The CCA CKX is one of my standby sets because of how neatly they tuned them, and my foam and tuning filter mods have just made their tuning that little bit better.


----------



## mndless

artatgray said:


> I'm not taking aim at you personally with the following, but the assertion in general as I've read/heard it from a number of different sources:
> 
> Lab grade audio analyzers are far more sensitive than human hearing, and a frequency response graph is only one part of the story. They still require some knowledge to interpret properly and correlate with perceptions regardless. Acoustic engineers of various stripe typically possess this type of knowledge.
> 
> Target deviation (from whatever one's target might be - Ex. Harman, Diffuse Field, etc.), group delay, distortion levels, and power handling are also necessary for a complete picture.


I absolutely agree. There's a lot to be said for trying to find a microphone for an analyzer that won't exhibit such limitations, but the graphs should never really be treated as the be-all, end-all of audio analysis. There will always be harmonic weirdness to account for when trying to graph sets that have to be placed within millimeters of the transducer anyway. I do wish more people, namely the manufacturer, would graph their sets and release not only the standard FR graphs, but also the decay waterfall plots so we can get a quick snapshot impression of driver resonance and agility. Even still, it won't be enough to describe things like the timbre of the mids and treble, which is where reviewers and the brave souls who blind buy and post their impressions on here come in.

In my case, I mostly just use the graphs I can find to gauge what my interest levels in a set should be given the limitations of my ears. Excessive treble gain and I can basically write a set off for my needs. Bass roll-off is a similar issue for me. I have no need of a set with less than a reference flat bass response. But dips and peaks in the 6-9kHz range and I'll have to look for actual reviews since that's where trying to plot graphs for these things gets weird.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Mouseman said:


> I may have missed it - what mod?


Check this post for the guide: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...-list-music-list.925319/page-50#post-16379744


----------



## AmericanSpirit

InvisibleInk said:


> Glad you are enjoying it. I'm enjoying mine, too. As for me, I attached a pair of medium AZLA Xelastec tips. I first had to use a pair of SpinFit nozzle adapters before attaching them, otherwise the Xelastecs wouldn't stay on. These are the best KZ IEMs I have yet tried. Worthy successors to the BA10, which can now be retired.


Agree, finally non-harsh treble yet resolving treble, KZ AST is a good steps KZ progressed to not relying on edgy-spikes in rendering the resolution.

Totally forgot about Xelastec, I may try! It’s extends treble region and tightens the bass, should work overly done bass and rolled-off treble of AST to more balanced tuning.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

MacAttack7 said:


> Can you give an example of a song that does not "reproduce cymbals properly"?
> I tried some sample music with cymbals and they sound good to me.
> 
> At 38:50 there are some cymbals.
> ...



Native DSD recording: Hiromi’s album ALIVE is very good one for drums and piano. I’m a drummer myself and can assure that recording is very natural and uncolored.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

AmericanSpirit said:


> Native DSD recording: Hiromi’s album ALIVE is very good one for drums and piano. I’m a drummer myself and can assure that recording is very natural and uncolored.



^ there's a whole lotta cymbal sounds in there for sure. :-o  This sounds great on the zax - definitely an über clean recording.  Even at the blowout in the finale I can still clearly discern between double bass kick drum and what sounds like a double pluck on the stringed bass. They mic'd the drum set very nicely. Those lower toms coming thru in the left channel sound great.  

Any opinions on Yussef Dayes? Small kit, tight fills, and tasty breaks.


----------



## forestitalia (Jul 12, 2021)

sorry, double


----------



## forestitalia (Jul 12, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ^ there's a whole lotta cymbal sounds in there for sure. :-o  This sounds great on the zax - definitely an über clean recording.  Even at the blowout in the finale I can still clearly discern between double bass kick drum and what sounds like a double pluck on the stringed bass. They mic'd the drum set very nicely. Those lower toms coming thru in the left channel sound great.
> 
> Any opinions on Yussef Dayes? Small kit, tight fills, and tasty breaks.



The cymbal sounds is a short 'splash' instead of a crashhhhh, for me is clear with Dayes piece, I hear the hit and decay short.
In the Hiromi's seems there is more cymbal because the drummer hits it repeatedly (and heavy), producing a continuous sound, for me do not shine too, I found it dull with the AST. The contrary of the AST are the ZAX, but even with the Q6D is vastly better.
Now I said enough, time for others to give opinion.


----------



## PhonoPhi

forestitalia said:


> The cymbal sounds is a short 'splash' instead of a crashhhhh, for me is clear with Dayes piece, I hear the hit and decay short.
> In the Hiromi's seems there is more cymbal because the drummer hits it repeatedly (and heavy), producing a continuous sound, for me do not shine too, I found it dull with the AST. The contrary of the AST are the ZAX, but even with the Q6D is vastly better.
> Now I said enough, time for others to give opinion.


My green AST are finally on its way!

I do consider AST (as ASX before) as a great development kit, and got a bunch of TRN for spare parts.

 It is one fun hobby after all


----------



## mndless

PhonoPhi said:


> My green AST are finally on its way!
> 
> I do consider AST (as ASX before) as a great development kit, and got a bunch of TRN for spare parts.
> 
> It is one fun hobby after all


Do you think they inverted the polarity on some of the treble drivers to create that odd dip in the FR curve there?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 12, 2021)

mndless said:


> Do you think they inverted the polarity on some of the treble drivers to create that odd dip in the FR curve there?


You ask quite involved questions for this forum 

Here are my limited thoughts:
The different polarity of the drivers results in phase differences.
Our ears are very sensitive to the phase difference between left and right, and also at lower frequencies, so inverting BA polarities can have very subtle effect, if detected at all.

Definitely, it would be interesting to see if any difference can be detected when connecting BAs differently.

In my experience, the odd dips in ASX were due to the narrow nozzle and sound tubes firing into its rim, constraining the sound.

Having some experience with clarinet acoustics, narrow passages can limit the sound a lot (in clarinets it manifests in great sensitivity to mouthpiece design and barrel tapering & diameter).

So my plan is to largely work on the nozzles, and definitely remove any filters/dampeners to free the sound 

Actually, to one of your previous comments about KZ, they used dampening filters in the treble sound guides of several IEMs, e.g. AS12 and C16. It was my first and very enjoyable mode to remove them under the capable guidance of Master @Slater (I do miss him 😢 I hope he is OK)

P. S. Then again, knowing your source is very-very important, as I was learning recently, it can change everything from enjoyable to unbearable...
Getting few different DAC/ampscan be a reasonably affordable way of finding a right combinations that can work for you.


----------



## nraymond

PhonoPhi said:


> The different polarity of the drivers results in phase differences.
> Our ears are very sensitive to the phase difference between left and right, and also at lower frequencies, so inverting BA polarities can have very subtle effect, if detected at all.


Phase inverting some drivers in a multi-BA array would have the effect of cancelling out sound waves of the opposite phase. This is how noise-reduction headphones work (mic the environmental audio, invert the phase, mix it back into the audio along with the music and you can cancel out the environmental audio as it enters the ear). This is also why phase matters in headphones when doing live performance where you are speaking/singing, because if you feed your own vocals back into your ears phase inverted you'll be cancelling out the some of the sound of your own voice as it travels from your mouth to your ears. The inference some people are making for phase inverted BAs in a multi-BA array is that it could be a way to selectively tune the sound via inverted waves.


----------



## mndless

PhonoPhi said:


> You ask quite involved questions for this forum
> 
> Here are my limited thoughts:
> The different polarity of the drivers results in phase differences.
> ...


It could definitely be fun to test out a bunch of different tuning filter combinations on something with as many discrete drivers as the AST has, though the way they've structured their missile launcher mid BAs may complicate the typical plug-style filters, so you may have to use the little self-adhesive stickers to add filters to some or all of those units if that's your goal. Could be interesting to cover some with different impedances of filters to push the peaks around just a tiny bit differently between them all (though from what I've read, the filters really only diminish the harmonic peaks as opposed to really moving them, but apparently the effect changes a bit based on where in the sound tube the filters are placed compared to the pressure wave source, since it functions primarily on damping harmonic peaks generated by the sound tube or enclosure space/shape.) Please let me know if my understanding of these mechanics is mistaken, as I enjoy learning these kinds of super niche things.


----------



## lushmelody

AST arrived earlier today! sounded okay-ish with stock stuff indeed. to "fix" it i did a tri through cable + kz reversed starline tips + bright source dongle combo. now i can say i'm pretty satisfied

my thoughts with that configuration:

- it has the same bass physicality and punch i find in my 1 dds. not sterile at all and the best: faaast
- nothing sounding digital/metallic (my big fear about BAs)
- treble is now more forward and present in the mix (not piercing, fortunately)
- best separation i currently own (biggest personal upgrade)

it's an overall upgrade to my NA2 and BL-03. a timbre i couldn't imagine KZ doing, especially full BA. it will cost you to bring the set potential, though.


----------



## PhonoPhi

nraymond said:


> Phase inverting some drivers in a multi-BA array would have the effect of cancelling out sound waves of the opposite phase. This is how noise-reduction headphones work (mic the environmental audio, invert the phase, mix it back into the audio along with the music and you can cancel out the environmental audio as it enters the ear). This is also why phase matters in headphones when doing live performance where you are speaking/singing, because if you feed your own vocals back into your ears phase inverted you'll be cancelling out the some of the sound of your own voice as it travels from your mouth to your ears. The inference some people are making for phase inverted BAs in a multi-BA array is that it could be a way to selectively tune the sound via inverted waves.


Right, absolutely.
Then it is hard to understand why to do it within an array (?)

I was thinking more of a precedent discussed for CSN, when a BA was thought to be connected in an opposite phase to a DD. What would be an effect - cancelling some overtones or just minimal interference, given the different frequencies.

I do a bit of soldering, but not good enough to solder and resolder tiny BAs for multiple tries, so altering the electric parts is at the bottom of my modding list for now.


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## MacAttack7 (Jul 12, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> AST arrived earlier today! sounded okay-ish with stock stuff indeed. to "fix" it i did a tri through cable + kz reversed starline tips + bright source dongle combo. now i can say i'm pretty satisfied
> 
> my thoughts with that configuration:
> 
> ...


I've been listening to mine all day.....dig 'em!
They sure sound different than my DQ6's, but I'm not sure how to describe the differences.
And if you ask me which one is better I don't know. All I know is that they are different.

Ok...I'll say the AST is better. Warmer & richer sound. DQ6 sounds thinner and not as absorbing.
DQ6 lets you hear the treble instruments better if you're into that though. Sounds lighter and brighter.

DQ6 is the sound of hammering a railroad spike into the ground.....tink, tink, tink.
AST is the softer but still firm sound of Mike Tyson hitting a punching bag......snap, thud, bam!


----------



## IEMbiker

MacAttack7 said:


> I've been listening to mine all day.....dig 'em!
> They sure sound different than my DQ6's, but I'm not sure how to describe the differences.
> And if you ask me which one is better I don't know. All I know is that they are different.
> 
> ...


Combine the both you have...bap tink... bap thud tink....that's the great sound we all like....


----------



## mndless

PhonoPhi said:


> Right, absolutely.
> Then it is hard to understand why to do it within an array (?)
> 
> I was thinking more of a precedent discussed for CSN, when a BA was thought to be connected in an opposite phase to a DD. What would be an effect - cancelling some overtones or just minimal interference, given the different frequencies.
> ...


I'd honestly be more concerned about cracking the shell while trying to open it or snapping a BA in half trying to access the ones mounted at odd angles than about the soldering itself. Tiny soldering is a nuisance, but as long as you aren't yanking on the cables or running too hot with too much contact time with the pad, it's relatively low risk, especially since you don't have to worry about lifting solder pads on the drivers themselves like you would with the crossover network.


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## Twowheeler (Jul 13, 2021)

Some time ago I bought DQ6 as my first proper IEM from KZ. I like them, but am sure I'll buy a different sounding one soon as well. The graphs in this thread really help. Or maybe buy a different cable.

But I have some trouble with the correct fitting tips on the dq6. It seems they're smaller than usual. What size spinfit do i need for example, or is there a foam tip that does fit?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Twowheeler said:


> Some time ago I bought DQ6 as my first proper IEM from KZ. I like them, but am sure I'll buy a different sounding one soon as well. The graphs in this thread really help. Or maybe buy a different cable.
> 
> But I have some trouble with the correct fitting tips on the dq6. It seems they're smaller than usual. What size spinfit do i need for example, or is there a foam tip that does fit?


You can just flip the KZ tips that are shared with them. I'd suggest to try this before spending on tips. Maybe you can save some money and spend them later for something else.

Flip tip mod -
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flip-tips-or-fliptips-prepare-to-have-your-mind-blown.906357/


----------



## rayliam80

Twowheeler said:


> Some time ago I bought DQ6 as my first proper IEM from KZ. I like them, but am sure I'll buy a different sounding one soon as well. The graphs in this thread really help. Or maybe buy a different cable.
> 
> But I have some trouble with the correct fitting tips on the dq6. It seems they're smaller than usual. What size spinfit do i need for example, or is there a foam tip that does fit?


I bought a set of Spinfit CP100 Plus to try out with my DQ6. They fit well enough on the nozzle and in my ears but I wasn't too impressed with them. I felt like the note weight was a bit lacking. Though this is totally a personal preference. I ended up using Azla Sedna tips (bought a bunch of different sizes awhile back).


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Jul 13, 2021)

Spoiler













KZ ZAS arrived 
Good and deep enough bass (subwoofer is heard). There is an emphasis (saturation) in the mid frequencies that starts at about 1kHz. I ask you to consider the emphasis not in terms of bright peaks, but in the density that the reinforcement gives. The ears do not nag, but the MidFreq-HighFreq in them is more than average and can tire. In general, the sound is rich (thanks to the midrange), the stage does not shine in size, in general it is average (normal). HF attenuation is very fast, skeet, clicks lack length.

 There is a question for the ~ 0.5 - 1 kHz section: it sounds weaker (light) against the background of thick bass and the same middle from 1 kHz, as if the joint is felt. But, if you listen to it for a very long time, it will generally come off.


----------



## MacAttack7

The ZAS are pretty sharp looking, but I'm still not buying any more earphones....for a while.


----------



## ChrisOc

MacAttack7 said:


> The ZAS are pretty sharp looking, but I'm still not buying any more earphones....for a while.


How long is a while? 🙃


----------



## MacAttack7

ChrisOc said:


> How long is a while? 🙃


Hopefully a very long time.....I deleted all of my youtube earphone review subscriptions except for one, so I won't be tempted as much.
I'm perfectly happy with the KZ AST, so I have no use for anything else unless it sounds like it's absolutely spectacular and the price is a bargain.


----------



## ChrisOc

MacAttack7 said:


> Hopefully a very long time.....I deleted all of my youtube earphone review subscriptions except for one, so I won't be tempted as much.
> I'm perfectly happy with the KZ AST, so I have no use for anything else unless it sounds like it's absolutely spectacular and the price is a bargain.


I will be willing you on and hope that I join you one day soon. Nothing like having that Satisfaction that you are happy with what you have. 🙏


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Don't let something silly like gear lust get in the way of discovering and listening to music.


----------



## InvisibleInk

MacAttack7 said:


> I have no use for anything else unless it sounds like it's absolutely spectacular and the price is a bargain.



Hype is building here for the Geek Wold GK10 to fit that description.


----------



## chinmie

MacAttack7 said:


> The ZAS are pretty sharp looking, but I'm still not buying any more earphones....for a while.



Same, I haven't bought a new set for quite a while now, just enjoying what i currently have


----------



## -Riker

Hello, I'm new to this scene and would like to try a pair of these headphones. Can anyone advice which type would be best for the typical V curve type sound with high treble and good bass. I have a preference for more bass. I'm coming from a FIL TX1. Thank you very much in advance and I appreciate any help on the matter. Cheers!


----------



## mndless

-Riker said:


> Hello, I'm new to this scene and would like to try a pair of these headphones. Can anyone advice which type would be best for the typical V curve type sound with high treble and good bass. I have a preference for more bass. I'm coming from a FIL TX1. Thank you very much in advance and I appreciate any help on the matter. Cheers!


I'm a personal fan of the CCA CKX. I've modded mine with foam, fabric tuning filters, and a new wax guard, but that is solely because I'm crazy treble sensitive. Even without doing any of that, the CKX are an excellent initial foray into Chi-fi thanks to their small size, good build quality, and generally pleasant sound signature. They're fairly warm with treble gain and good detail reproduction. The upper treble can sound a bit metallic, but it's nowhere near as bad as other sets I've tried.


----------



## InvisibleInk

-Riker said:


> Hello, I'm new to this scene and would like to try a pair of these headphones. Can anyone advice which type would be best for the typical V curve type sound with high treble and good bass. I have a preference for more bass. I'm coming from a FIL TX1. Thank you very much in advance and I appreciate any help on the matter. Cheers!


Hey, welcome to _"The Scene!"_

Perhaps the _KZ ZST X _or the _CCA CSN_ might serve to satisfy the requested sound profile.


----------



## -Riker

mndless said:


> I'm a personal fan of the CCA CKX. I've modded mine with foam, fabric tuning filters, and a new wax guard, but that is solely because I'm crazy treble sensitive. Even without doing any of that, the CKX are an excellent initial foray into Chi-fi thanks to their small size, good build quality, and generally pleasant sound signature. They're fairly warm with treble gain and good detail reproduction. The upper treble can sound a bit metallic, but it's nowhere near as bad as other sets I've tried.


Thank you for the suggestion, totally my fault, but I forgot to mention that my budget for these is around 20-30 USD. These will be used at the gym and I tend to be rough with them at the gym so I'm looking to explore a more inexpensive pair.



InvisibleInk said:


> Hey, welcome to _"The Scene!"_
> 
> Perhaps the _KZ ZST X _or the _CCA CSN_ might serve to satisfy the requested sound profile.


I was referred to the KZ ZST (no X) originally, I think I'll give the X a shot. Do you mind helping me understand the finer extremities between the two, or am I mincing too much at this price point? Thank you for the suggestions.


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## G777 (Jul 14, 2021)

-Riker said:


> Hello, I'm new to this scene and would like to try a pair of these headphones. Can anyone advice which type would be best for the typical V curve type sound with high treble and good bass. I have a preference for more bass. I'm coming from a FIL TX1. Thank you very much in advance and I appreciate any help on the matter. Cheers!


KZ DQ6 or CCA CSN. The DQ6 is brighter due to treble peaks but those can be tamed with earbud foams. I don’t own the CSN so I can’t really comment on it other than that I’ve read many positive things about them here and that they have less treble than the DQ6. The DQ6 has very good bass quality for its price and I’d assume the CSN is similar as they use the same 10mm DD.

Here are the frequency response graphs of the two:


----------



## InvisibleInk

-Riker said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, totally my fault, but I forgot to mention that my budget for these is around 20-30 USD. These will be used at the gym and I tend to be rough with them at the gym so I'm looking to explore a more inexpensive pair.
> 
> 
> I was referred to the KZ ZST (no X) originally, I think I'll give the X a shot. Do you mind helping me understand the finer extremities between the two, or am I mincing too much at this price point? Thank you for the suggestions.


The X version is the successor to the ZST. KZ seem use an "X" or "Pro" in the names when they are performing an upgrade to a previously existing product with a similar shell form factor. They don't always do it that way, however, so things can get confusing.

The ZST X has the same single balanced armature plus dynamic driver hybrid configuration as its predecessor, but with supposedly improved tuning. I can't vouche for that since I never heard the original, just the X version. It is a very v-shaped set that achieves its spicy treble performance by placing the the BA into the nozzle of the shell.


----------



## -Riker

G777 said:


> KZ DQ6 or CCA CSN. The DQ6 is brighter due to treble peaks but those can be tamed with earbud foams. I don’t own the CSN so I can’t really comment on it other than that I’ve read many positive things about them here and that they have less treble than the DQ6. The DQ6 has very good bass quality for its price and I’d assume the CSN is similar as they use the same 10mm DD.
> 
> Here are the frequency response graphs of the two:


 Awesome, thank you for the graph. It seems like the KZ DQ6 isn't a bad choice, looks like the deep bass is comparable between the two minus around 1.5k-2k.


----------



## -Riker

InvisibleInk said:


> The X version is the successor to the ZST. KZ seem use an "X" or "Pro" in the names when they are performing an upgrade to a previously existing product with a similar shell form factor. They don't always do it that way, however, so things can get confusing.
> 
> The ZST X has the same single balanced armature plus dynamic driver hybrid configuration as its predecessor, but with supposedly improved tuning. I can't vouche for that since I never heard the original, just the X version. It is a very v-shaped set that achieves its spicy treble performance by placing the the BA into the nozzle of the shell.


Yeah all these different versions has my head in a loop, plus it seems there are a lot of different brands selling these headphones and at different price points. I see one as erjigo brand, another as ****. Should I be looking at a specific one to order off of Amazon?


----------



## InvisibleInk

-Riker said:


> Yeah all these different versions has my head in a loop, plus it seems there are a lot of different brands selling these headphones and at different price points. I see one as erjigo brand, another as ****. Should I be looking at a specific one to order off of Amazon?


 Yeah, there are a lot of resellers. Can't really offer much guidance on who to buy from there.


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## SpaceOperaVillain (Jul 15, 2021)

I finally received one of those 2.5mm balanced 16 core silver plated AliExpress cable specials. I've been listening to the ZAX with the old KZ brown cable after stealing the new KZ silver cable for the C12s. 

So uhh - yeah, wow. Cables do make a difference. There is definitely a lot more transparency coming through in recordings and a lot more clarity in the top end. Enough so that I had to shave a dB or three off my EQ presets. I'm noting here that I began eq'ing more and more to flatten out some of the vee shape with this cable. First couple of hours of listening  ... budget bliss. Paired with the BTR3k this makes a very nice rig for ~ $150 total.


----------



## Wgibson

For the gym? Zs4 probably. Still my favorite shell shape, treble is a bit hot but there are some simple mods to cut down on that. Nothing great technically, but they get the job done and are cheap.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

-Riker said:


> Hello, I'm new to this scene and would like to try a pair of these headphones. Can anyone advice which type would be best for the typical V curve type sound with high treble and good bass. I have a preference for more bass. I'm coming from a FIL TX1. Thank you very much in advance and I appreciate any help on the matter. Cheers!


Considering you are coming from Fil TX1, you should definitely try DQ6 with foam mod by @RikudouGoku as it will suit your preferences and won't be a tectonic shock to KZ's infamous treble spikes. And then gradually move to hardcore KZ IEMs. Because the level of sonic upgrade would be too much for you to digest as IEMs trump TWS in all aspects especially the budget ones.

You can also have wireless freedom for combined cost of $40 with KZ AZ09 which will definitely beat the experience you had with Fil TX1. If you are willing to spend that much i.e. else DQ6 are more than enough to give you V-shaped joy if you aren't that treble sensitive.


----------



## voicemaster

Wgibson said:


> For the gym? Zs4 probably. Still my favorite shell shape, treble is a bit hot but there are some simple mods to cut down on that. Nothing great technically, but they get the job done and are cheap.


DQ6 is better than those older KZ models and can be had for under $30.


----------



## voicemaster

AmericanSpirit said:


> Native DSD recording: Hiromi’s album ALIVE is very good one for drums and piano. I’m a drummer myself and can assure that recording is very natural and uncolored.



Sounds amazing on the Variations. Haven't touched my KZ and CCA for quite awhile now, but if someone asking me which KZ/CCA model I recommend, the DQ6 and CKX will be in the top list.


----------



## paulwasabii

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I finally received one of those 2.5mm balanced 16 core silver plated AliExpress cable specials. I've been listening to the ZAX with the old KZ brown cable after stealing the new KZ silver cable for the C12s.
> 
> So uhh - yeah, wow. Cables do make a difference. There is definitely a lot more transparency coming through in recordings and a lot more clarity in the top end. Enough so that I had to shave a dB or three off my EQ presets. I'm noting here that I began eq'ing more and more to flatten out some of the vee shape with this cable. First couple of hours of listening  ... budget bliss. Paired with the BTR3k this makes a very nice rig for ~ $150 total.


I can feel the "prove it" army coming.  Seriously, glad you are getting more enjoyment from a great set.


----------



## Wgibson

voicemaster said:


> DQ6 is better than those older KZ models and can be had for under $30.



Have it, and I agree it sounds much better, but for gym or yard work (non-critical listening) I still like the ZS3/ZS4 shell size/shape. With starline tips, not going anywhere. DQ6 has that smaller nozzle and less ergonomic shell, I couldn't use the tips that came with it and starlines come loose, had some TRN tips that fit pretty well... Just throwing out an opinion.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ^ there's a whole lotta cymbal sounds in there for sure. :-o  This sounds great on the zax - definitely an über clean recording.  Even at the blowout in the finale I can still clearly discern between double bass kick drum and what sounds like a double pluck on the stringed bass. They mic'd the drum set very nicely. Those lower toms coming thru in the left channel sound great.
> 
> Any opinions on Yussef Dayes? Small kit, tight fills, and tasty breaks.



very skillful fill-ins and I like his snare taps! Good to know Yuusef Dayes, thanks!


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## PhonoPhi (Jul 16, 2021)

paulwasabii said:


> I can feel the "prove it" army coming.  Seriously, glad you are getting more enjoyment from a great set.


OK. I respond, after all it is KZ thread 

Surely, balanced is different so much more than cables, since for the most cases two amplifier chips are used, and in many cases - two different DAC chips. Hence the balanced is effectively a different source that is in the most cases a better one - easier to make cleaner, more spacious, etc.

Also good old KZ stock cables have resistance of 0.8-1.1 Ohm, so with many sources, the difference with a good cable (below ~0.3-0.4 Ohm) can be noticeable.

As for other differences, for instance of the copper and plated, - if one checks out of curiosity whether their "pure copper" cables actually plated and then cased in the copper-coloured insulation - the findings may be surprising 
Then it is really hard not to chuckle for "the copper makes warmer" 

Collecting my share of cables, my definitive conclusion is that the differences of the cables is all boiled to the source limitations.

After all, an ideal source will power any load to the same power identically. This ideal case is definitely quite far from the reality with the compact portable sources, and there comes the cable difference highlighting the source imperfections.

But why then actually not to go to the proverbial source?
Portable DACs are plenty and fairly affordable, just the price of few decent cables (or even less than some exhorbitantly priced ones), and the difference there is so much more real and striking!

Actually, it is so overwhelming for me - I am not sure what to do...

So my limited best advice - before investing in a collection of IEM (and cables, other than for comfort and aesthetics), make sure that you have few different sources - at least along the lines of warm/musical, cold/analytical, the difference and synergies can be huge!


----------



## mndless

PhonoPhi said:


> OK. I respond, after all it is KZ thread
> 
> Surely, balanced is different so much more than cables, since for the most cases two amplifier chips are used, and in many cases - two different DAC chips. Hence the balanced is effectively a different source that is in the most cases a better one - easier to make cleaner, more spacious, etc.
> 
> ...


I have really been enjoying my little HiBy R3 Pro Saber. It's good enough for most things and reasonably inexpensive for a DAP that offers balanced output with up to 240mW per channel at 16 ohm. There are, of course, cheaper options if you only want a USB DAC+amp, but I opted for that because it seemed the most versatile. It's not exactly warm, but not cold either. It just seems quite balanced in my opinion, which is a nice place to start.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

whatever, guys - this cable is so good that I can understand all the lyrics now to Cocteau Twins.


----------



## paulwasabii

GK-GS10 is a new brand being sold alongside KZ on the G.K store on Amazon US here
4BA 1DD, graphs similar to the EDX, but sounds a bit spicier in the treble to me.  I went with EQ to bring the treble down and bass up a little.  Not a bad set, but not sure it will displace your EDX or DQ6.  More of a curiosity for me to see another sibling in the KZ family if that is the long term plan.


----------



## PhonoPhi

paulwasabii said:


> GK-GS10 is a new brand being sold alongside KZ on the G.K store on Amazon US here
> 4BA 1DD, graphs similar to the EDX, but sounds a bit spicier in the treble to me.  I went with EQ to bring the treble down and bass up a little.  Not a bad set, but not sure it will displace your EDX or DQ6.  More of a curiosity for me to see another sibling in the KZ family if that is the long term plan.


Very nice photos!

I also could not help getting GS10 from Amazon.ca

What is prominent about GS10 - they are one of the most open designs. The letters are cut out, and behind is a quite large mesh.
One can literally blow/breath through them causing DD crinckling flex 
Then they left me with an impression of quite ample bass, good stage, as well as as with the "30095 in the nozzle" treble, and not being exactly sure how other BAs are contributing...

P. S. Finally(!), I have received green/cyan AST today


----------



## hallflourish

For the KZ DQ6, I ran AutoEq against the frequency response by @RikudouGoku and would like to share the outputs.

Original frequency response: https://rg.squig.link/?share=RikudouGoku_Target,KZ_DQ6

Command line, Parametric, Graphic, and Fixed Band EQ outputs: https://pastebin.com/itXQuVq4

AutoEq's plot:


----------



## arbiter76

nekonhime said:


> Have anyone try the kz z3?


Hard to find info.  Mine should be here in about 10 days or so.


----------



## ear4ear (Jul 17, 2021)

Can someone give me a recommendation to the right direction? I was looking at either the AST, ZAS, TFZ no.3, or just grab a ZS 10 Pro. I definitely want a punchy bass that can keep up speed wise, but I've been really wanting something a little more U shaped more as opposed to V shaped where I can get that deep rich bass with healthy treble and a close as can be clean and accurate mid-range. Soundstage I actually like it a little bit closer and usually prefer a closed back, especially because I listen to my music very loud and don't want any sound bleed to effect those around me. I do use foam ear tips, I'll just be upgrading the cable down the road.

I listen to a lot of grunge, metal, alternative/hip-hop, indie/alternative indie, and nu-core genres, but I like it like my venues, small a bit close and center stage, somewhere between in front with reach to the sides, reaching a fade towards the back of your head if possible. I appreciate any input you may have, thank you. : )

edit: My budget is up to $150, but doesn't necessarily need to be $150, I just want something that would shock me at that price point or up to.


----------



## baskingshark

ear4ear said:


> Can someone give me a recommendation to the right direction? I was looking at either the AST, ZAS, TFZ no.3, or just grab a ZS 10 Pro. I definitely want a punchy bass that can keep up speed wise, but I've been really wanting something a little more U shaped as opposed to V shaped where I can get that deep rich bass with healthy treble and a close as can be clean and accurate mid-range. Soundstage I actually like it a little bit closer and usually prefer a closed back, especially because I listen to my music very loud and don't want any sound bleed to effect those around me. I do use phone ear tips, I'll just be upgrading the cable down the road.
> 
> I listen to a lot of grunge, metal, alternative/hip-hop, indie/alternative indie, and nu-core genres, but I like it like my venues, small a bit close and center stage, somewhere between in front with reach to the sides, reaching a fade towards the back of your head if possible. I appreciate any input you may have, thank you. : )



Don't have the others, but skip ZS10 Pro and TFZ No. 3, those are V shaped sets. If you want a U shaped set, those are not contenders.
TFZ No. 3 also kills my ears at louder volumes (fletcher munson curve), the upper mids are boosted to the moon (this is noting that you listen to music very loud).

What's your budget BTW?


----------



## ear4ear (Jul 17, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Don't have the others, but skip ZS10 Pro and TFZ No. 3, those are V shaped sets. If you want a U shaped set, those are not contenders.
> TFZ No. 3 also kills my ears at louder volumes (fletcher munson curve), the upper mids are boosted to the moon (this is noting that you listen to music very loud).
> 
> What's your budget BTW?


Thank you, I appreciate your input. My range is up to $150, but it doesn't have to be $150, I should probably add that in my main post. It's been a while and I'm looking for something that will shock me at its price point. The ZS10Pro and TFZ I did understand are V-shape, just wasn't sure anyone's opinion if it may have better response in some regard for what I'm looking for, but I'll definitely take the TFZ off the list as I have heard people complain how rough it can be when bumped up, that's the part that worries on a unit is harshness that may come upping the volume, or if it gets quiet and if the richness fades on more subtle parts.


----------



## Sebulr

ear4ear said:


> Thank you, I appreciate your input. My range is up to $150, but it doesn't have to be $150, I should probably add that in my main post. It's been a while and I'm looking for something that will shock me at its price point. The ZS10Pro and TFZ I did understand are V-shape, just wasn't sure anyone's opinion if it may have better response in some regard for what I'm looking for, but I'll definitely take the TFZ off the list as I have heard people complain how rough it can be when bumped up, that's the part that worries on a unit is harshness that may come upping the volume, or if it gets quiet and if the richness fades on more subtle parts.


My pick for indie/grunge is the Blon Bl-03 or, maybe the Blon Bl-01 if you want less and faster bass. Add a decent cable and some spinfit cp160 in the appropriate size to the order though as the cable and tips are atrocious. The bass is more textured than the Zs10 pro. The blon Bl-03 maybe a little bloated in the bass at high volumes, the 01 is a little bit tamer, but also a little grainier in the treble. I can't comment on them; But the moondrop aria are meant to be good at around $80. They are on my radar, but I haven't bit on them yet.


----------



## paulwasabii

arbiter76 said:


> Hard to find info.  Mine should be here in about 10 days or so.


Waiting for mine too, I think mine is further out than 10 days as it has not shipped from Linsoul.  My SK10 may arrive before the Z3


----------



## paulwasabii

PhonoPhi said:


> Very nice photos!
> 
> I also could not help getting GS10 from Amazon.ca
> 
> ...


Yes, I wish all 4 BA were in the shell. There is a screw where that 4th could have been located.

How long did you wait for the green AST?  I have had a week or two between colors and iirc, it happened to me on the ASX, I ordered the wrong color and it was delayed.  I did not attempt to order the green as it seemed like a longer wait.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 17, 2021)

paulwasabii said:


> Yes, I wish all 4 BA were in the shell. There is a screw where that 4th could have been located.
> 
> How long did you wait for the green AST?  I have had a week or two between colors and iirc, it happened to me on the ASX, I ordered the wrong color and it was delayed.  I did not attempt to order the green as it seemed like a longer wait.


My AST ordering actually was really harsh this time.
I started to firmly stick to a point of cancelling the order after 10 days of not shipping along with AE policies.
So I first ordered a silver one, in May and it could not be shipped - cancelled.
Then I re-ordered a green one in early June - still no luck.
For the third order I asked explicitly when it will be shipped, and still it was later than expected/promised, right after 10/11 days...
It was actually shipped on July 3, so I was really surprised how fast it was delivered.

So far, I really like AST - definitely most unlike KZ of all KZs - I would not possibly recognize it as KZ in blind tests - gentle sound, but everything for my enjoyment is more or less there, so I am keeping them in my ears


----------



## paulwasabii

PhonoPhi said:


> My AST ordering actually was really harsh this time.
> I started to firmly stick to a point of cancelling the order after 10 days of not shipping along with AE policies.
> So I first ordered a silver one, in May and it could not be shipped - cancelled.
> Then I re-ordered a green one in early June - still no luck.
> ...


OK, I did not think the green was available at all in early June.  I had a few people whispering in my ear to check out the AST, but waited to order the ZAS and AST together during the 6-18 sale.  Still in transit but looking forward to hearing both.


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> My AST ordering actually was really harsh this time.
> I started to firmly stick to a point of cancelling the order after 10 days of not shipping along with AE policies.
> So I first order a silver one, and it could not be shipped - cancell3d.
> Then I re-ordered a green one - still no luck.
> ...


That's what I was thinking with the AST...kind of a gentle sound as you say. 
I don't know if it changed or I got used to it but it just sounds normal to me now.
I ordered a black pair on sale from the Global store on June 21st, and they arrived July 1st.


----------



## ear4ear (Jul 17, 2021)

Sebulr said:


> My pick for indie/grunge is the Blon Bl-03 or, maybe the Blon Bl-01 if you want less and faster bass. Add a decent cable and some spinfit cp160 in the appropriate size to the order though as the cable and tips are atrocious. The bass is more textured than the Zs10 pro. The blon Bl-03 maybe a little bloated in the bass at high volumes, the 01 is a little bit tamer, but also a little grainier in the treble. I can't comment on them; But the moondrop aria are meant to be good at around $80. They are on my radar, but I haven't bit on them yet.


Haha, I was eying the Moondrop Starfield (hear the Aria is close to the to the Moondrop Starfield, but need a better cable) since I love their aesthetic and I can grab one a little more than the Aria, I hate their cables though, I just worry it'll be too clean or smooth, I definitely want exciting and jumpy, something dirty, but recognizable, something that has a reserve in the middle to keep it clean and together. A few were recommending the BL-03 a while ago to me, did you find the fit problematic on the shell or find that the inner tube is sealed nicely? I tried a pair of BL-01s (old model maybe?) and there was almost a vibration I couldn't get past when I was moving it up and their plugs were awful, but I feel like it was the seal on the pair, I was very interested in the texture everyone talks about, how would a BL-03 hold in your opinion in texture comparison if you know? Thank you again. Im trying to relearn so it definitely helps getting everyone's input and other recommendations.


----------



## Sebulr

ear4ear said:


> Haha, I was eying the Moondrop Starfield (hear the Aria is close to the to the Moondrop, but need a better cable) since I love their aesthetic and I can grab one a little more than the Aria, I hate their cables though, I just worry it'll be too clean or smooth, I definitely want exciting and jumpy, something dirty, but recognizable, something that has a reserve in the middle to keep it clean and together. A few were recommending the BL-03 a while ago to me, did you find the fit problematic on the shell or find that the inner tube is sealed nicely? I tried a pair of BL-01s (old model maybe?) and there was almost a vibration I couldn't get past when I was moving it up and their plugs were awful, but I feel like it was the seal on the pair, I was very interested in the texture everyone talks about, how would a BL-03 hold in your opinion in texture comparison if you know? Thank you again. Im trying to relearn so it definitely helps getting everyone's input and other recommendations.




The fit is a problem on all the Blons, except the mini. The nozzles are too short, thats why I reccomend the spinfits, or flip tips. The new blon Bl-01 has a removable cable the same as the 03, it has a really tight ear guide that tends to pull the shell out of your ears. The seal is really good on the 03 with spinfits. The sound is hard to describe. It's very smooth and soothing but also the treble is quite airy and detailed. The 01 is a little harsher, as it has slightly less bass boom so the upper mids and treble seem a little harsher overall. From what I have read, the aria has slightly more bass than the starfield. Although I have heard neither. I am tempted though. Others may be able to chime in here.

For what it is worth, i have two blon minis, I like them that much. One is stuck on my TRN BT20 non s, the other is stock. The cable is nicer, than the other blons, and the tips fit because they are a deeper fitting IEM.

I haven't bought any of the recent KZ iems, but I really like the ZSX, I got it for £33 from amazon have slapped a tripowin zonie on it. It has slightly more air in the 10khz region than the zs10 pro, and I like that. The cymbal clashes, are slightly more polite than the zs10 pros, but otherwise it sounds the same.


----------



## arbiter76

ear4ear said:


> Can someone give me a recommendation to the right direction? I was looking at either the AST, ZAS, TFZ no.3, or just grab a ZS 10 Pro. I definitely want a punchy bass that can keep up speed wise, but I've been really wanting something a little more U shaped more as opposed to V shaped where I can get that deep rich bass with healthy treble and a close as can be clean and accurate mid-range. Soundstage I actually like it a little bit closer and usually prefer a closed back, especially because I listen to my music very loud and don't want any sound bleed to effect those around me. I do use foam ear tips, I'll just be upgrading the cable down the road.
> 
> I listen to a lot of grunge, metal, alternative/hip-hop, indie/alternative indie, and nu-core genres, but I like it like my venues, small a bit close and center stage, somewhere between in front with reach to the sides, reaching a fade towards the back of your head if possible. I appreciate any input you may have, thank you. : )
> 
> edit: My budget is up to $150, but doesn't necessarily need to be $150, I just want something that would shock me at that price point or up to.



blon 03 or tin t2.


----------



## voicemaster

ear4ear said:


> Haha, I was eying the Moondrop Starfield (hear the Aria is close to the to the Moondrop Starfield, but need a better cable) since I love their aesthetic and I can grab one a little more than the Aria, I hate their cables though, I just worry it'll be too clean or smooth, I definitely want exciting and jumpy, something dirty, but recognizable, something that has a reserve in the middle to keep it clean and together. A few were recommending the BL-03 a while ago to me, did you find the fit problematic on the shell or find that the inner tube is sealed nicely? I tried a pair of BL-01s (old model maybe?) and there was almost a vibration I couldn't get past when I was moving it up and their plugs were awful, but I feel like it was the seal on the pair, I was very interested in the texture everyone talks about, how would a BL-03 hold in your opinion in texture comparison if you know? Thank you again. Im trying to relearn so it definitely helps getting everyone's input and other recommendations.


Blon A8 prometheus!!


----------



## ear4ear

The Tin2s didn't feel great to me when I tried them, but maybe they weren't broken in? They just seemed very average, but I'm starting to consider BL-03s now...


----------



## ear4ear

voicemaster said:


> Blon A8 prometheus!!


How would you compare them to the BL-03s or a pair of ASTs? I just worry because the Prometheus are very open and I've heard they seem dominant for female vocals and too many instruments can get muddled especially onto bass. On the other hand I've seen people say it's the BL-03 perfected, which seems surprising to me.


----------



## independent

Hello. Got the ASX and after a little while found the sound did change noticeably. Wanted something with a bit more detail the ZS7's I've had for some time but with a similar treble and good bass _and _with lots of detail. Not disappointed. Found the ZAX had too much bass and treble although a fun sounding 'phone. Since spending time with my first BA -only set since a Etymotic set a loong time ago I've been wondering if hybrids are mainly DD 'phones with a small amount of tuning from the BAs. The warm bass and signatures of hybrids are really a different kettle of fish. Enjoying this BA only phone but have problems quality control as mine arrived with a wobbly in the pin connector.


----------



## voicemaster

ear4ear said:


> How would you compare them to the BL-03s or a pair of ASTs? I just worry because the Prometheus are very open and I've heard they seem dominant for female vocals and too many instruments can get muddled especially onto bass. On the other hand I've seen people say it's the BL-03 perfected, which seems surprising to me.


If you want a better isolation than the Moondrop Aria is my pick.


----------



## saldsald

ear4ear said:


> Can someone give me a recommendation to the right direction? I was looking at either the AST, ZAS, TFZ no.3, or just grab a ZS 10 Pro. I definitely want a punchy bass that can keep up speed wise, but I've been really wanting something a little more U shaped more as opposed to V shaped where I can get that deep rich bass with healthy treble and a close as can be clean and accurate mid-range. Soundstage I actually like it a little bit closer and usually prefer a closed back, especially because I listen to my music very loud and don't want any sound bleed to effect those around me. I do use foam ear tips, I'll just be upgrading the cable down the road.
> 
> I listen to a lot of grunge, metal, alternative/hip-hop, indie/alternative indie, and nu-core genres, but I like it like my venues, small a bit close and center stage, somewhere between in front with reach to the sides, reaching a fade towards the back of your head if possible. I appreciate any input you may have, thank you. : )
> 
> edit: My budget is up to $150, but doesn't necessarily need to be $150, I just want something that would shock me at that price point or up to.


Both AST and ZAS have good isolation and rather punchy bass. The ZAS is more U shape but I won't consider the mids accurate and it has expanded stage. It has just a little too much mids which can make the sound just a little nasal. It has enough treble to my ears but I bet some may find it lacking in sparkles. The AST is not U shape at all but has more accurate mids however rather in accurate treble IMO and definitely not good for your choice of music. 

I think the ZAS can be a good choice for you still.


----------



## Fabulo

ear4ear said:


> Haha, I was eying the Moondrop Starfield (hear the Aria is close to the to the Moondrop Starfield, but need a better cable) since I love their aesthetic and I can grab one a little more than the Aria, I hate their cables though, I just worry it'll be too clean or smooth, I definitely want exciting and jumpy, something dirty, but recognizable, something that has a reserve in the middle to keep it clean and together. A few were recommending the BL-03 a while ago to me, did you find the fit problematic on the shell or find that the inner tube is sealed nicely? I tried a pair of BL-01s (old model maybe?) and there was almost a vibration I couldn't get past when I was moving it up and their plugs were awful, but I feel like it was the seal on the pair, I was very interested in the texture everyone talks about, how would a BL-03 hold in your opinion in texture comparison if you know? Thank you again. Im trying to relearn so it definitely helps getting everyone's input and other recommendations.


The only punchy bass IEMs I have are the QKZ VK4 (and with your budget you can probably get something better) but I don't recommend the T2, Aria and Starfield. They are amazing but their sound is practically flat, they are absolutely not what you are looking for.


----------



## MacAttack7

independent said:


> Hello. Got the ASX and after a little while found the sound did change noticeably. Wanted something with a bit more detail the ZS7's I've had for some time but with a similar treble and good bass _and _with lots of detail. Not disappointed. Found the ZAX had too much bass and treble although a fun sounding 'phone. Since spending time with my first BA -only set since a Etymotic set a loong time ago I've been wondering if hybrids are mainly DD 'phones with a small amount of tuning from the BAs. The warm bass and signatures of hybrids are really a different kettle of fish. Enjoying this BA only phone but have problems quality control as mine arrived with a wobbly in the pin connector.


The ASX are probably my favorite out of what I own at the moment. 
I also had the ASF and it too had a wobbly pin connector as your ASX does.
Hopefully it doesn't affect anything, but I'm not super happy about it.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 18, 2021)

Is KZ AST GREEN finally available..?  Not on Linsoul, at least. Or HiFiGo. Shenzhenaudio has it..?

https://www.amazon.com/Earphones-Headphones-Auriculares-Detachable-Comfortable/dp/B097GFTQXH
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...exp_id=a1b59c38-7019-4a10-ad26-ba67ff9153f4-4


----------



## cappuchino (Jul 19, 2021)

*KZ EST IEM IS HAPPENING!!! AND COMING SOON!!! I think... but it's definitely coming this year.*

Not yet sure if its "true" electrostatic though and just a magnetostat.

If you've seen the pics, it's the atrocious "fan" looking one (initial design).


----------



## baskingshark

cappuchino said:


> *KZ EST IEM IS HAPPENING!!! AND COMING SOON!!! I think... but it's definitely coming this year.*
> 
> Not yet sure if its "true" electrostatic though and just a magnetostat.
> 
> If you've seen the pics, it's the atrocious "fan" looking one (initial design).



In all likelihood, it is probably gonna be a fake EST, something like a magnetostatic or electret that Shouer and BGVP like to use (but market it as an EST).

A true electrostatic set is usually expensive and has its own dedicated voltage supply. The magnetostatics/electrets are precharged and they lose their charge over time. Stuff like Shuoer tape uses this electret thing, they don't have a dedicated voltage supply and theoretically they may become inoperable once the charge is used up.

But then again, the way we buy CHIFI, there'll be a new hypetrain coming in the mail within weeks, so more toys will come way before the charge of the electret runs out hahaha.


----------



## saldsald

cappuchino said:


> *KZ EST IEM IS HAPPENING!!! AND COMING SOON!!! I think... but it's definitely coming this year.*
> 
> Not yet sure if its "true" electrostatic though and just a magnetostat.
> 
> If you've seen the pics, it's the atrocious "fan" looking one (initial design).


It is not too expensive to do a true electrostatic pair and KZ can always manage to keep the price as low as the sum of the cost of the drivers when buying separately. I have faith in them.


----------



## mndless

cappuchino said:


> *KZ EST IEM IS HAPPENING!!! AND COMING SOON!!! I think... but it's definitely coming this year.*
> 
> Not yet sure if its "true" electrostatic though and just a magnetostat.
> 
> If you've seen the pics, it's the atrocious "fan" looking one (initial design).


I'll certainly be keeping an eye out for when they finally launch it. Should be exciting regardless of if they opt for the magnetostat or electret driver design instead of a true electrostatic. Given that electrostatic sets typically require a dedicated device to power them and handle playback, I'm honestly not all that bothered for it to be a "true" electrostat.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Jul 19, 2021)

The DQ6 are here a week earlier than expected!  Out-of-the-box impressions:

 Reproduces sound.
 Snug fit in the ear; shell is smaller than I expected.
 Nice KZ box. Giftable inside a beverage koozie.
 20 euros, after VAT and shipping.

Let us consider the acoustic capabilities of 70's and 80's era automobile speakers and FM radio for which pop and rock were ultimately mixed and mastered. I think a picture is worth a few thousand words, here.






All the usual whining and whinging about sound stage, detail retrieval, imaging, the fetishism around bass bleed - just forget all of that nonsense for a minute. Now navigate over to your music player and lookup Dr. Feelgood by Mötley Crüe. Find your EQ and go ahead and slide those bass and treble buttons around to their preordained positions for an aftermarket Pioneer Amplifier EQ combo installed in a mid 80's Camaro Z-28.

Now press play, stop over analyzing what these things were made for, and turn it up like the gods intended. _Yeaahhhhh baby!_ Oh man, is that_ Crazy Train?! _ Hell yes! \m/  So _*this, *_*dear head-fi'er, *is exactly how classic rock and pop is supposed to sound, and it's still a huge upgrade over ... well, that OEM paper cone abomination.

For all these folks trying to turn an analysis of Bon Jovi drum hits into a Humanities Masters thesis - these probably aren't for you, and you still need to get a life. For me, these DQ6 make me want to ice down a six pack of Dr Pepper, grab my girl, and head out for the lake with the T-tops off.

Rating:  6 of 6 styrofoam can coolers.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 19, 2021)

But aren't IEM electrostats not true estats, such as Stax headphones? What's the difference here? (besides not sounding pleasing to me so far)


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> In all likelihood, it is probably gonna be a fake EST, something like a magnetostatic or electret that Shouer and BGVP like to use (but market it as an EST).
> 
> A true electrostatic set is usually expensive and has its own dedicated voltage supply. The magnetostatics/electrets are precharged and they lose their charge over time. Stuff like Shuoer tape uses this electret thing, they don't have a dedicated voltage supply and theoretically they may become inoperable once the charge is used up.
> 
> But then again, the way we buy CHIFI, there'll be a new hypetrain coming in the mail within weeks, so more toys will come way before the charge of the electret runs out hahaha.


Those Sonion EST´s arent true electrostats either, they are also electrets. The only iems with a true EST are the ones like the Shure kse1500/1200.


----------



## baskingshark (Jul 19, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Those Sonion EST´s arent true electrostats either, they are also electrets. The only iems with a true EST are the ones like the Shure kse1500/1200.



Yeah exactly. So do you find any big advantages in EST/electrets over traditional BA drivers for the higher frequencies?

Sometimes implementation and tuning is more important than the technology, or even the driver count or driver brand. I've seen my fair share of piezo driver/electret driver flops. I've heard some multi driver behemoths in the KZ and TRN lineup that sound worse than something with lesser drivers. Bellsing BAs are used in some TOTL brands like Campfire, when the general consensus is that Knowles and Sonion are so called more "branded" than Bellsings.

A lot of CHIFI are riding on the beryllium driver hypetrain since last year. I've heard some purported beryllium types that don't sound very different from traditional single DD materials. So perhaps there's some element of marketing by namedropping all these novel drivers and materials. Maybe the budget segment CHIFI is super competitive, so having these exotic drivers may drive sales up, who knows.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Yeah exactly. So do you find any big advantages in EST/electrets over traditional BA drivers for the higher frequencies?


Both of their timbre sound unnatural to me, but electrets are more "exotic"/unique to me, so they end up being more fun. While BA timbre is just plain unnatural to me.

The electrets also have a lot more details (especially micro-details) but is still pretty smooth compared to BAs.




baskingshark said:


> Sometimes implementation and tuning is more important than the technology, or even the driver count or driver brand. I've seen my fair share of piezo driver/electret driver flops. I've heard some multi driver behemoths in the KZ and TRN lineup that sound worse than something with lesser drivers. Bellsing BAs are used in some TOTL brands like Campfire, when the general consensus is that Knowles and Sonion are so called more "branded" than Bellsings.


Yeah, tuning and implementation is the nr 1 priority.


----------



## mndless

RikudouGoku said:


> Both of their timbre sound unnatural to me, but electrets are more "exotic"/unique to me, so they end up being more fun. While BA timbre is just plain unnatural to me.
> 
> The electrets also have a lot more details (especially micro-details) but is still pretty smooth compared to BAs.
> 
> ...


I only have experience with electret s from the Kinera NanNa 2.0 and there's no weird timbre from them in that set. Kinera really have shown with that set that they can tune with the best of them when they put their minds to it. You just get the most natural treble extension that can sometimes end up sounding strained on a DD or metallic on a BA. I can understand that the drivers may not be as well represented in other sets, though, and they do sound less fantastic when you aren't able to give them enough power. They still sound good, obviously, but more thin and veiled. Pump them up with a source that can manage at least 200mW@16ohm and they really come alive. It's like removing a wax guard on other sets, they just get so clean and rich. I can see why Zeos was so enthusiastic in his support of them.

At some point I'll have more disposable income to throw at some electret-equipped sets of my own to compare them against. I'd like something with even better mids separation, so even more BA drivers will be necessary, I think. I'm still stunned by how much Kinera managed to squeeze out of a DD+BA+2EST configuration.


----------



## MacAttack7

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> The DQ6 are here a week earlier than expected!  Out-of-the-box impressions:
> 
> Reproduces sound.
> Snug fit in the ear; shell is smaller than I expected.
> ...


Rock on DQ6!
They sound like good, normal, solid earphones.
I tend to overanalyze the sound on my other earphones, but with the DQ6 I just stick them in my ears and forget about it.
There is really nothing unusual to analyze. 
Playing Dr Feelgood as I sit here.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

MacAttack7 said:


> Rock on DQ6!
> They sound like good, normal, solid earphones.
> I tend to overanalyze the sound on my other earphones, but with the DQ6 I just stick them in my ears and forget about it.
> There is really nothing unusual to analyze.
> Playing Dr Feelgood as I sit here.



It's an age old hifi conundrum to spend boatloads of money on equipment just to make all your favorite music sound like garbage. My rock faves all sound good again. 

They're almost too small for my ears - nozzle is pretty short so i needed a fat foam tip to get a good deal. Got Rainbow on right now - Man on the  Silver Mountain sounds great.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 19, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> It's an age old hifi conundrum to spend boatloads of money on equipment just to make all your favorite music sound like garbage. My rock faves all sound good again.
> 
> They're almost too small for my ears - nozzle is pretty short so i needed a fat foam tip to get a good deal. Got Rainbow on right now - Man on the  Silver Mountain sounds great.


DQ6 is indeed a great IEM to perfectly enjoy the music.

I got my two pairs, since it is about the best price/enjoyment ratio as you can get, and I really love how all-DD set delivers the sound so close to hybrid/BAs (I am all into all-BAs )


----------



## G777

DQ6 😍

After the foam mod, it's making me seriously reconsider all my other audio purchases lol.


----------



## RyuzakiL26

I keep on seeing this foam mod. One using a gauze pad (I think?) and the other a specific type of foam. Which among the two mods are effective and so far, which iems benefit from it? I have a Blon BL-03, BL-01, KZ ZAX and Penon Fan. I got curious due to the praise it receives and how it improves the SQ coming from stock. Any enlightenment is appreciated 😅


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Jul 20, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> DQ6 is indeed a great IEM to perfectly enjoy the music.
> 
> I got my two pairs, since it is about the best price/enjoyment ratio as you can get, and I really love how all-DD set delivers the sound so close to hybrid/BAs (I am all into all-BAs )





G777 said:


> DQ6 😍
> 
> After the foam mod, it's making me seriously reconsider all my other audio purchases lol.


^ I noticed in my early years that I was EQ compensating for expensive gear (looking at you onkyo, sennheiser, custom speaker cabinets that I've long since forgotten the names of) and being ultimately disappointed in it. You can pick any audio genre (home, theater, mobile, car, club) and you can drop 5-10k as a starter on hifi gear and always be eyeing the versions of things that boutique manufacturers target people with plenty of disposable income (which I'm all for), or instead you can cobble together interesting combinations of well regarded things and find enjoyment from that. Collecting ChiFi has very much the same kind of feel to it. I have often considered starting my own boutique speaker shop myself, so I don't look down on these folks - quite the contrary. They just don't have the economy of scale working in their favor. 

As an example on the hobby side, I had an old Zenith console player I bought from a collector and tube enthusiast. I don't know what he did, but to this day I've never heard the Rolling Stones sound as good as it did off that thing spinning vinyl under a grado needle and shooting FIRE from side mounted 15" woofers. Absolutely glorious. I ended up selling it back to him before a big move. Another setup I had that worked really well was a pair of 80's yamaha 3 way bookshelf speakers just plugged straight into a refurbished Crown 300. No EQ. No excuses. DSOTM - praise the gods, the sound was absolutely monstrous. Then my jazz obsession kicked in - that rig was so clean and accurate that it just sizzled. I loved it.  </aging-hipster-drivel> 

Getting back to DQ6 - as both of you list BL03s in your list, I thought I'd comment briefly on the comparison as an all-rounder since other folks are probably interested, and I'm curious on what your thoughts are. I had BL03 a few months ago and was very disappointed and underwhelmed with that set - they just sounded warm and didn't particularly have good detail on the top end, and I thought subbass was lacking for electro/techno/EDM. As my first pair of hyped chifi, I decided to not crap on everybody else's parade and just quietly gave them away. Tons of people absolutely love them, they're cheap, and I think the odd form factor really works for a lot of folks with smaller ears. Different strokes 'n all that.  I've been very tempted by the BL05s (the seafoam green units) to give that brand another shot. Instead I just stuck with KZ.   

In contrast, I'm not disappointed at all in having ordered the DQ6 and they have a permanent place in the collection here. For my ears and purposes these are an upgraded BL03. There's some detail and treble back up top, and I find that the bass and mid-bass tuning from this "XUN" driver is really great for rock. Mids are voluminous without being overbearing or shouty in the way that studio monitors can be. 

Getting more adventurous I've moved on to 90s shoegazer ... it's almost impossible to EQ this genre since the vocals are often competing in the same frequency as a prominent guitar or keyboard screech. Scoop it out and it just messes up the mix. Boost the treble and it'll go sibilant very quickly. DQ6 just plays it back in a pleasant way. Everything is in there and well accounted for from the bass to that delicate ride cymbal in the intro. Vocals are nice and full. When the guitars come in through the mids you're almost worried about getting stabbed in the brain, but it doesn't offend (at least for me). 



On the same album the track Alison gets real busy in the upper mids and lower treble around the 1:05 mark. Playback stays sane and pleasantly layered. Yah these are keepers and worth having a backup copy on hand.


----------



## G777

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ^ I noticed in my early years that I was EQ compensating for expensive gear (looking at you onkyo, sennheiser, custom speaker cabinets that I've long since forgotten the names of) and being ultimately disappointed in it. You can pick any audio genre (home, theater, mobile, car, club) and you can drop 5-10k as a starter on hifi gear and always be eyeing the versions of things that boutique manufacturers target people with plenty of disposable income (which I'm all for), or instead you can cobble together interesting combinations of well regarded things and find enjoyment from that. Collecting ChiFi has very much the same kind of feel to it. I have often considered starting my own boutique speaker shop myself, so I don't look down on these folks - quite the contrary. They just don't have the economy of scale working in their favor.
> 
> As an example on the hobby side, I had an old Zenith console player I bought from a collector and tube enthusiast. I don't know what he did, but to this day I've never heard the Rolling Stones sound as good as it did off that thing spinning vinyl under a grado needle and shooting FIRE from side mounted 15" woofers. Absolutely glorious. I ended up selling it back to him before a big move. Another setup I had that worked really well was a pair of 80's yamaha 3 way bookshelf speakers just plugged straight into a refurbished Crown 300. No EQ. No excuses. DSOTM - praise the gods, the sound was absolutely monstrous. Then my jazz obsession kicked in - that rig was so clean and accurate that it just sizzled. I loved it.  </aging-hipster-drivel>
> 
> ...



I just happened to be listening to Souvlaki yesterday. One of my favourite albums. 

As for the Blons, I did find them rather boring in their stock form. They get a bit more interesting after removing the filter in the nozzles but their bass still feels slow. The DQ6 feels much more textured in the bass. Stock DQ6 does get a little fatiguing at times to my young ears due to some treble peaks, but those can be tamed using some earbud foam on the nozzle. Right now they are perfect.


----------



## demencia

Hello ! 

Would be interested to see a comparison between AST vs ZAS. From what I have seen, both are like bass-canons. But the most interesting part is that the AST is a full BA. A full BA almost "basshead" ?


----------



## CT007 (Jul 20, 2021)

demencia said:


> Hello !
> 
> Would be interested to see a comparison between AST vs ZAS. From what I have seen, both are like bass-canons. But the most interesting part is that the AST is a full BA. A full BA almost "basshead" ?


ZAS bass is certainly not AST level(or Penon Fan level). AST is a monster IEM. ZAS is "simply" an improved ZAX, more typical of traditional KZ tuning, with a cleaner, lighter sound signature similar to L2/Oracle. Bass of both are fine, but AST is over the top(if you want that). AST sounds amazing, with lots of wow factor and fantastic space & separation/imaging, etc, and is currently my #1 fav IEM ever since getting it. Tri Starsea is #2, and ZAS is #3, with clearly the poorest tonal character(shiny) of the 3, though still very very good sounding(makes ZAX obsolete). If you can only afford ZAS, and not AST or Starsea, I 100% rec it.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

G777 said:


> I just happened to be listening to Souvlaki yesterday. One of my favourite albums.



Nice! This album is a big classic for sure. 



G777 said:


> As for the Blons, I did find them rather boring in their stock form. They get a bit more interesting after removing the filter in the nozzles but their bass still feels slow. The DQ6 feels much more textured in the bass. Stock DQ6 does get a little fatiguing at times to my young ears due to some treble peaks, but those can be tamed using some earbud foam on the nozzle. Right now they are perfect.



One thing I didn't have on hand at the time for the BL03 was another cable or a proper supply of tips. At the time I scavenged some silicone tips from a freebie OEM pair and had to use them with the stock cable. Maybe I'd have thought better of 'em with that fancy balanced silver coated blah blah cable I have stuck to the ZAX  

Agree with you on the bass. I haven't managed to trip them up yet. Running through some of my indie catalog today. I use spotify mostly but will YT the links which, for our purposes of budget glory is just fine. This banger from SF's Film School starts out with a great drum and bass groove and then around 48 seconds, unleashes a stereo fury of guitar that dissipates leaving the drum kit and ethereal, errant notes lingering in the negative space. Play it loud.  

|

The other album I spent time with today on the DQ6 is _Ferment_, from one of my old favorites Catherine Wheel. Especially the title track. If you know ... you _know.  _Because !@#$ your ears, give it a healthy volume and then ask why everything you know about rock makes zero sense after 2:48 has occurred. A lot of cheap headphones at this point will just play some kind of over amplified noise for the last minute of the track. The DQ6 are holding their own here - when you're not sure just listen for the cymbal crashes and that will give you an idea of how over juiced everything else is during the mayhem. Like Jimmy Hoffa's whereabouts or a valid explanation for Kim Kardashian's fame, we will never know how many cymbals were destroyed during the recording of this song.


----------



## lushmelody (Jul 20, 2021)

AST impressions update:

- proper amplification "tightens" the sound, shows the iem "real resolution" (best way i can describe...)

- tested EQ boosting the recessed regions (3500khz and 8000khz... i did +1.5 and +3.5 respectively) and it responds pretty well. yeah, cymbals get + impact and cadence, but i went back to the stock tuning because it gets tiring (can be a preset though if you want to listen something like jazz or a more critical listening - no need to change iems)

- the treble is very well managed, it is just presented with a bit less volume. AST shines reproducing busy tracks (when amped)

- amped you can try bassier presentation eartips (my current favorite is bgvp a07)

it´s a very similar experience i had with NF Audio NA2: hated it in the beginning and then i was always coming back to it. it isn't tuned for critical listening but for pure music enjoyment. AST is a full BA set, though (+ lots of transducers) so there are big pros bc most iems with similar tuning are only 1 dd or way less driver count


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

CT007 said:


> ZAS is "simply" an improved ZAX



Did KZ actually change the tuning, though? I dug hard for any info on the ZAS before ordering the ZAX, which had a few favorable reviews out. Yours is the first post I've seen to claim this so I'm curious how it improved on the ZAX for you?  At the time I was making my order It looked to me like the ZAS was just a shell refresh to fit KZ's updated branding and product range updates on the wireless side with no attention to tuning, so I chickened out and saved a few bucks. After living with them for a few weeks, I'm not at all disappointed, but I'm curious how the ZAS stacks up in your notes.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

lushmelody said:


> AST shines reproducing busy tracks (when amped)



As much as I've ditched on the stock tuning, there's nothing else close to their price point in an all BA design. ThieAudio's Voyager 14 is retailing for $1000. As an unashamed EQ shill it's darned tempting but I'm going to wait for more news on this EST unit.  Also trying really hard to resist an impulse buy of Spring 2s. I'm not sure if I'll succeed.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 20, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> how it improved on the ZAX for you?


Easy. No real treble peaks, better fit, better cable, and new, better bass. ZAS and ZAX share the same tonality/tuning, you could probably say. (I would)

Listening to ZAS vs AST now. Both are keepers. The only reasons I would choose ZAS over AST is 1) price limitation, 2) if you prefer a cleaner, clearer, colder sound(AKA have bass shyness). Instrument notes coming out of AST have so much more life, meat, vividness to them, not to mention the T-Rex bass that provides highly satisfying warmth and body to all the mids, as well. I like all of ZAS's bass, but it seems to pronounce the regular bass range more than the sub-bass, which I feel may be a little unbalanced. It's that colder, clearer, thinner presentation in the mids, and to a much lesser extent the shiny tonal character, that I find out of my preference and not very engaging/enjoyable(same story with Oracle, A7, several others). AST is IEM of The Year for me so far. Haven't heard anything quite like it.  AST is worth buying for the bass alone; it can be both thunderously intense _and_ smooth & dreamy like a literal eardrum massage. Imagine professional musicians playing the treble and mids, and Zeus/Hercules playing the bass = AST. ⚡ But there's a lot more to like about AST than that bass. I don't notice any glaring BA tonality issues with AST, like I did with L3.


----------



## mndless

I really want to see KZ or CCA make more things with the shell and general sound signature of the CKX. They're super comfortable and I just can't get over how lovely the bass from these things can be. I have modded mine a bit (find the link in my signature), but they're shockingly good for the money and the fit is hard to beat because of how tiny they are. I do think I'll try swapping the filter for the nozzle BA again since it can still get a teeny bit hot for my preferences, but they're still a lovely set. I'd be thrilled to see them use that set as a jumping-off point for any upcoming electret-equipped set that they intend to launch. I just hope they learn from Shuoer and BGVP and remember that they need to layer some BA low and mid treble into the electret's crossover point, otherwise they end up needing to overdrive the poor thing to try to fill in the shallow-sounding lower treble from the electret, and you get harmonic weirdness like in the Tape and Tape Pro. Given they have plenty of experience with multi-BA sets, I hope they're up to the task.


----------



## riodgarp

I'm also happy with my DQ6 but the isolation is sometime worrying me, either is the dq6 has narrow nozzle so it's doesn't isolated like the one that come inside your ears very deep (you know what brand is it )  or the vent make outer sound leaked


----------



## InvisibleInk

riodgarp said:


> I'm also happy with my DQ6 but the isolation is sometime worrying me, either is the dq6 has narrow nozzle so it's doesn't isolated like the one that come inside your ears very deep (you know what brand is it )  or the vent make outer sound leaked


Spinfit CP240 and problem solved


----------



## lushmelody

CT007 said:


> I don't notice any glaring BA tonality issues with AST, like I did with L3.


truly pleasant and smooth, i only remember that these are BAs because of the amazing separation


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

CT007 said:


> Easy. No real treble peaks, better fit, better cable, and new, better bass. ZAS and ZAX share the same tonality/tuning, you could probably say. (I would)



Better for you mebbe ... I like my treble peaks!  

I see in your sig that you have a Starsea in your collection - how does that stack up against the ZAS/ZAX? I've been tempted by it before given the adjustable tuning. Seemed like a more neutral set approaching the fun side of a reference sound signature.  would you say that's accurate?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

riodgarp said:


> I'm also happy with my DQ6 but the isolation is sometime worrying me, either is the dq6 has narrow nozzle so it's doesn't isolated like the one that come inside your ears very deep (you know what brand is it )  or the vent make outer sound leaked


I had a similar problem at first.  None of the new style shallow white tips that came with the DQ6 worked for me.  I ended up using large starlines since the nozzle can't go deep enough for my usual choice of medium sized foams. I've never tried spiral dots before so this seems like a good excuse to try 'em.  

former ety user, here - yah I know what you mean


----------



## CT007 (Jul 22, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Starsea - how does that stack up against the ZAS/ZAX? Seemed like a more neutral set approaching the fun side of a reference sound signature. would you say that's accurate?


I'd say ZAS sounds more neutral than Starsea, as Starsea feels overly bassy and rolled off on the low end for neutral territory.

I love the resolution of Starsea. I think it's pretty much as good as it gets at the price. Mids, spaciousness, imaging are all fine, but not impressive like AST. Some of the sub-bass sounds great, but most of the time the bass feels rather big, bland & depthless, like it's mono. Fit and quality is great. The tuning does a little, but nothing huge.

I think ZAS offers a more complete sound/range and balance, but Starsea sounds more engaging(=enjoyable?), not being as clear & cold sounding, with nicer, superior treble in extension, detail and tone. I find Starsea to be slightly bright on lower end sources, also, which will go away with upgrades or possibly foam tips.

For ZAX, I don't really think it competes with ZAS, unless you prefer the extra treble peaks/brightness it has, or its specific flavor of bass & balance(which I do think is quite enjoyable, but still a little peaky). Consider ZAX retired, and ZAS as the remastered/2.0 successor.


----------



## Caipirina

I have lost overview (and possibly interest) in KZ's TWS offerings ... I was there in the beginning with the KZ T1 and then the super charged and awkward E10 (which is nice when it works, but cumbersome in many other ways) and I think I got 2 or 3 more which by now already fell off the radar (lemme check S1, Z1 and S2) and pretty sure one of them has a weird battery problem.
Now I am seeing more and more new ones but they all seem to be another hybrid version with pretty much the same shell design, some questionable case choices and so far no ANC ... what gives? Which one is 'good'   I know, we all love all our children equally. but seriously ... anyone still got an overview? 






Last KZ I ordered are the AZ09 dongles with the ZAX (or brother, just seeing there's now a ZAS) ... and they have arrived in my future destination, but I am still 5 weeks out ...


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Mouseman said:


> I wish Wavelet would work on my R5, just so I could try it out. Unfortunately it doesn't.


Power EQ is a really sod alternative for Android.


----------



## garysohn

A belated thank you. Works perfect. 


PhonoPhi said:


> You may consider investing in IEMatch - it is designed for cases like this of a too powerful amp.


----------



## RikudouGoku

DQ6 mod party.   





If you find that the foam mod makes the DQ6 too bassy (and warm), you can try this mod.








It is basically the stock DQ6 but tames the upper-mids/lower-treble peaks while the bass is untouched. 


As for how to do it, it is just using micropore tape to cover (100%) of the top of the tips. So there are zero risks to doing this and fully reversible.


----------



## G777

I would do foam + taped inner vent for that big dumb bass 🙃


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jul 23, 2021)

G777 said:


> I would do foam + taped inner vent for that big dumb bass 🙃


Probably a basshead iem with that combination.


EDIT:




ok, not really what I call basshead quantity but it did get boosted more while quality dropped compared to the regular foam mod.


----------



## G777

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably a basshead iem with that combination.
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


Based on the impressions, this is how I expect the CA Honeydew to sound lol.


----------



## RikudouGoku

G777 said:


> Based on the impressions, this is how I expect the CA Honeydew to sound lol.









WOW!

Bass looks identical while the treble on the Honeydew looks a lot peakier (5k). DQ6 is 10x cheaper and maybe tuned better?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Finally got some time for BA10! Although, I'm almost half a decade late to the party, but they still hold their own.

Sound is typical KZ! Except cable (can't stand memory hooks!) everything is stock. I'm using a cheapo KBEar pink cable as a substitute. And, I now get folks mean by 'BA timbre and BA Bass', it is different from DDs but I think KZ has done a great job with it to keep it as natural as possible. Reading some of the impressions on these BA traits, I thought they might sound like steel. Isolation is top tier, and to my ears they're super comfortable as well. No discomfort whatsoever after almost 1.5 hrs of listening.

I think I will pair them with foam tips just to manage the treble peaks that make it difficult to listen to genres that have prominent cymbals. For EDM, Pop, trance et al they're fantastic. I managed to get them for $44, and they're damn good. I might get one more BA only cheapo set to compare how they stand against cheap BA only sets. But they're better than most KZs I've had. Will try and share more impressions with time but they're promising.


----------



## r31ya (Jul 23, 2021)

Oh hey, KZ ZAS reviews



As well as some graph~


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 24, 2021)

AST’s treble, although being most less highlighted registers due to its rolled off curve, is the best part.

This may sound a bit idiotic but I was A-B testing AST with Anole VX, simply because both IEMs are 10BA+ composition. The VX’s TOTL resolution /extreme texturing /layering quality can be found at upper registers of AST, not on whole spectrum, but at least from 9khz and upward, AST isn’t shy of naming itself a multiBA IEM.

Sad part is due to its overwhelmingly boosted bass, it bleeds into the whole sound image, it will offset the transparency and supreme texturing and air presentation…

Anyway, AST is a successful approach of KZ marching toward higher end competitors with a small fraction of the price, highly cost-compensating.

recommended settings:
LPF: Sharp-delay, slow roll-off filter
Gain: High
Output source: Line-Out
Eartips: SpinfFit CP360
Cable: Stock


----------



## AmericanSpirit

ZAS ordered, should receive in couple of weeks. Will compare vs AST/ZAX


----------



## CT007

AmericanSpirit said:


> boosted bass


Agreed, 100% lol. If you're looking for *BIG BASS* = AST! It's the most I've ever heard in an IEM.


AmericanSpirit said:


> Eartips: SpinfFit CP360


I would think using non-stock shaped tips would change the fit for AST & ZAS, so either they won't fit as well due to a longer insertion, or they might fit better if the shell has too shallow of a contour fit for you. I haven't tried non-stock tips yet, but they seem to be tailor made for these shell & nozzle designs.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

If you want to hear what crystalline sounds like with a high BA count driver, toss on Ray Lynch's remastered "Tiny Geometries".  I first heard this on a pair of Panasonic on-ear phones in the 80s and it blew my mind. Listening to it now on a balanced source, I can pick out the differences in attack and decay on each of the different synth loops that work together to build those fast moving arpeggios in stereo and it's blowing my mind again 30+ years later.

This track is like being in a sci-fi flick and experiencing communication with an alien presence in deep space by telepathy. Or something. The entirety of the _Deep Breakfast _album is a great showcase for modern tech.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

CT007 said:


> Agreed, 100% lol. If you're looking for *BIG BASS* = AST! It's the most I've ever heard in an IEM.
> 
> I would think using non-stock shaped tips would change the fit for AST & ZAS, so either they won't fit as well due to a longer insertion, or they might fit better if the shell has too shallow of a contour fit for you. I haven't tried non-stock tips yet, but they seem to be tailor made for these shell & nozzle designs.


The AST shell simply doesn’t fit to my ear, so the best option is using CP360(helpf fit without any sacrifice)


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 25, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> If you want to hear what crystalline sounds like with a high BA count driver, toss on Ray Lynch's remastered "Tiny Geometries".  I first heard this on a pair of Panasonic on-ear phones in the 80s and it blew my mind. Listening to it now on a balanced source, I can pick out the differences in attack and decay on each of the different synth loops that work together to build those fast moving arpeggios in stereo and it's blowing my mind again 30+ years later.
> 
> This track is like being in a sci-fi flick and experiencing communication with an alien presence in deep space by telepathy. Or something. The entirety of the _Deep Breakfast _album is a great showcase for modern tech.



+1 for Deep Breakfast! I bought the tape back in the 80s and now have the CD. Tiny Geometries is a great track for detail and separation in the treble. Try this one as well, wonderful separation and timbre in all the acoustic instruments:


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 25, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> AST’s treble, although being most less highlighted registers due to its rolled off curve, is the best part.
> 
> This may sound a bit idiotic but I was A-B testing AST with Anole VX, simply because both IEMs are 10BA+ composition. The VX’s TOTL resolution /extreme texturing /layering quality can be found at upper registers of AST, not on whole spectrum, but at least from 9khz and upward, AST isn’t shy of naming itself a multiBA IEM.
> 
> ...


I had to revisit setting for AST,
recommended settings:
LPF: Sharp-delay, slow roll-off filter
▶︎brick-wall or low dispersion
Gain: High ▶︎ Low
Output source: Line-Out
Eartips: SpinfFit CP360
Cable: Stock

Reason:
AST’s mid range seemed had permanent veiling issue, the imaging were blurred. I thought it was AST’s native issue because what ever cables / ear tips I tried carried that blurry mid-range imaging. No, it was Bellsing’s 29689s characteristics, when running with low output impedance, the image focus gets a significant improvement.​
I’m quoting from a finding of output impedance impacts on frequency response and in attack/decay by a Japanese reviewer from this:

From an observation by Audio-sound@hatena, the output impedance will change frequency responses (chart is based on Audiosense DT600).
-frequence response variations depending on the out put impe



Zoomed to mid with harman curve added




Also the author found the higher the output impedance the imaging gets worse on DT600’s attack/decay(using 500Hz square wave)

@0Ω



@85Ω



at high output impedance, the image gets blurred due to premature decay, so basically samething happened to AST’s BA driver responses.


It was breathtaking and at the same time I felt how hard to obtain this AST to its optimal performance is a bottleneck as a flagship of KZ. Ideally it should have near-best performance with any sources setting so it will get 80/100-90/100 scores but now may divide reputations into  85/100 or 60/100 bipolar clusters.

Anyway, being a KZ follower since 2017, and having most of their products (70% miss, 30%hit), AST is a best hit. And I feel KZ’s hit rate is getting improved from last couple of releases.

AST now is beyond my $100 cluster king TRI Starsea /Moondrop Aria/Starfield/KXXS, and sitting at category A, after getting it’s blurry midrange off.

Again, I feel how hard to set one IEM’s score, some IEMs like AST changes face per various combinations and matching, it’s very hard to determine a permanent set point from just a few sampling.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I finally had a chance today to try the CCA C12s on the balanced cable to see if it's worth ordering another one. Bottom end is considerably different than on the 3.5mm from the same source (btr3k). It's drier and more controlled ... a lot of the mud in the bottom end is gone when things get busy, but it's not quite as full sounding as before, either. 

As my go-to pair of jazz masters, everything is technically improved but not necessarily more enjoyable. Sound stage, tone are still good but the timbre is slightly different. Slightly more detail? Maybe, maybe not. After more and more listening I think C12 remain to be a very technical pair of ears and good for critical listening in all things jazz and most classical. The ZAX win for opera hands down. Vocals and imaging are distinctly superior, and there's none of the fatigue. So yeah ... about that. Is the fatigue actually a strength of the C12 and sharper versions of KZ products? Well, friends, hold on to your spandex covered butts and, if you reach down and find a pair <g>, FAAFO (_follow_ _along_ and find out).  

Coming off a heavy week of listening to all manner of rock on the excellent KZ DQ6, which is just plug 'n play sing-along goodness across the spectrum, I wanted to get crazy with the C12s. Holy Dio on an angry record! Am I glad I did :-o  These things are absolute monsters  

Listening to these on a balanced source with the Dark Lord himself controlling my hand over the EQ sliders is like being in front of the horn cabinets during sound check with a bitter, hung over guitar tech just before those bad boys get hoisted into the sky at a stadium venue. If you never had a roadie friend, first of all  - don't Secondly, you'll just have to take my word for it. This is a savage counterpoint to the usual audiophile quest for "smooth", "detailed", or "balanced". With the added power, this is pure hell fire.  

Tracks heard today with Judas Priest presiding over the volume clicker:

Whitesnake _Still of the Night 
(if you didn't realize they made the last great Led Zeppelin track, consider yourself now informed) _

Living Colour _Cult of Personality 
(most criminally underrated band / vocalist / guitarist of all time. not one but two blistering, mind melting guitar solos in here) _

Queensryche _Jet City Woman 
(Seattle's pre-grunge scene. Along with Operation Mind Crime, this was when treble in the metal was still cool)  _

Ozzy Osbourne _No More Tears 
(Lemmy. Zakk. Ozzy. More like "No More Livers". Also one of the best metal tracks ever laid down on tape)
_
Rainbow _Stargazer 
(holy cymbal effects, Batman! The studio engineers are drilling to the catacombs via your ear canals) _

Mastodon _Stargasm  
("yourre on fiiiihhhyuuurrrrrrrrrrrrr"  - no, your body's fine, its just your head that's engulfed in flames) _

Raveonettes _Endless Sleeper 
(oh hai, Sharin Foo. Goodbye, ears *wince* )  _

White Stripes _Icky Stomp 
(remember: whatever fantasy land you conjure up in the basement of the girl next door ... will eventually be in the tabloids) _

Deafheaven _Baby Blue 
(10 minutes of self indulgent re-living of being 15 years old and sneaking beer from dad's garage fridge while being mad at your girlfriend)_

Candlemass _Bewitched
(some of the best vocals in rock. Don't play at night if you've been drinking. Or at least hide the Ouija board. Trust me on this.)  _

Electric Wizard _Wizard in Black
(Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound" concept, revisited with old imprisoned Phil, and now with more Satan!)  _


This is a live rock concert in your head. I could keep going, but I actually listened to all of these tracks and I'm exhausted now and my tinnitus is not happy. This isn't an audiophile experience of slouch-on-the-couch while being smug between sips of loose leaf tea from your imported Japanese craquelure tea cups, no no noo.  (don't judge, okay?). This is a sweaty, head banging, mid center stage sonic riot delivered via a space time temporal anomaly. And just like any good substance enhanced rock concert, about 45 minutes is all I can take at the <air quotes> proper </air quotes> volumes. 

The C12 (and potentially it's cousin ZSX?) scratches an itch that can't otherwise be satisfied during these COVID times. They channel the heat in a way that the ZAX isn't quite capable of reproducing. The ZAX is just too polite and too balanced. It gets plenty loud and does it distortion free. But it doesn't grab you by your plaid shirt collar and smack you around. At volume the C12s are rage and malice, a pair of demons spitting fire into your skull. 

Sure, you can play it safe with those kilo-buck hybrids and pretend that metal heads give a damn about the acoustic decay of kick drums, but what fun is that, _really_? Juice up a pair of C12's, grab a red Solo cup full of cheap beer, and get yourself down to the pit if you dare \m/ \m/


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Nimweth said:


> +1 for Deep Breakfast! I bought the tape back in the 80s and now have the CD. Tiny Geometries is a great track for detail and separation in the treble. Try this one as well, wonderful separation and timbre in all the acoustic instruments:




Gorgeous. Like a lot of good musicians, Ray is a perfectionist and the recordings really reflect that. Beautiful piece - I've not heard this one in a long time!


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

AmericanSpirit said:


> I had to revisit setting for AST,
> recommended settings:
> LPF: Sharp-delay, slow roll-off filter
> ▶︎brick-wall or low dispersion
> ...



Interesting read. The other day I came across this website and found it interesting. It's likely that you've already read this, but if not take a look: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/06/measurements-oppo-udp-205-part-1-output.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ DQ6 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-dq6.24918/reviews#review-26364

Rank: A

TOTL tuning with the DIY foam mod. I prefer this a bit over the blon bl-03 (mesh mod).


----------



## AmericanSpirit

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Interesting read. The other day I came across this website and found it interesting. It's likely that you've already read this, but if not take a look: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/06/measurements-oppo-udp-205-part-1-output.html


Great reading especially about LPF part, the OPPO device lowpass filter naming seemed very similar to FiiO’s BTR5 series, “apodizing” and “ brick-wall” and I do agree that #1 and #3, BTR5’s brick wall and apod1 is very similar and hard to tell audible differences. The other LPF are rather easy to tell, as they present harmonics in a very different manner.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ DQ6 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-dq6.24918/reviews#review-26364
> 
> Rank: A
> 
> TOTL tuning with the DIY foam mod. I prefer this a bit over the blon bl-03 (mesh mod).


Blon IMO is more for those who want a laid back tuning with analogue sound. It caters to a specific TG. I'd get a DQ6 on 11.11 to check against my other sub $50 DDs especially Heart mirror and NCO.


----------



## boredbuyingstuff

Today I decided to test the KZ AST with the stock tips for the first time -- never even considered since I got the IEM. Well, they are pure garbage -- no isolation at all and makes the AST sounds like, well, trash. I have been using the CP360 Large since day one and it is fine...

But since I was trying I decided to test the AST with Spinfits CP145 Large. Well, it isolates more and is way more comfortable than CP360s. The trick is to insert the tip in the AST so as it covers all the metal part of the nozzle. When inserting in your ears, use the Etymotic technique (of pulling your ears towards the back of your head while inserting the IEM) and it fits really nice and more comfortable than CP360s. When removing the IEM the tip continues attached to the AST without even moving -- at least for me.

For anyone interested, worth a try.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Jul 28, 2021)

ZAS finally shipped from Shenzhen Audio! Hopefully, it arrives in a couple of weeks.

What triggered my interest was a rave review from my trusted reviewer who quoted ZAS as "apparently, KZ's sound-making know-how is maturing and ZAS is the best sounding KZ of its line up". I know he also covered AST, so knowing AST is a pretty solid one made by KZ, ZAS brings very high expectations.

I just took a look at the product page of ZAS, and noticed the unit placement of 50024s x 6 looks interesting:
Observations:
-AST also uses 50024s x6 in a matrix placement, AST's 50024s were more of treble tweeter function vs ZAS's mid to treble wider range (6x for Mid could produce a very satisfactory rich tone)
-50024s outlet is flat vent compared to traditional tubular outlet
-XUN driver is directly placed near the nozzle, a direct bass slam could be expected (from the turbocharging amp structure of XUN)
-30019 is a new standard of KZ super tweeter, non-harsh, highly defining
-ZAS is not using multi-bores, its acoustic chamber is mixed inside the IEM housing, one big open nozzle straight into the ear if tuned correctly would benefit cohesive sound image formation compared to multi-bores.


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## Barusu Lamperouge (Jul 28, 2021)

For those who are struggling with foam mod (if it's not readily available) and want a quick/easy substitute. Can use cotton to fill in the nozzle and the results are absolutely mind boggling. My $6 KZ EDX sounds way way mature in terms of tuning and presentation. The subbass gets tight and it surprisingly rumbles. Mids are touch softer and don't sound harsh especially in upper registers. Treble spikes are gone and it's laid-back with almost nonexistent loss in details. Soundstage becomes a bit intimate but EDX aren't exactly known for it anyways.

Mod is super simple and is completely reversible - One has to simply fill the nozzle with small amount of lightly moist cotton and then push it in with a straw or pen refill. Basically something hollow that can get inside the tips. To moist cotton I used hand sanitizer one can use any spirit that evaporates easily. Avoid using water. And voila you are done. Probably one of the easiest mod and doesn't require any special skills or precision. I intend to try this on Tin Hifi T2 which also gets a bit hot in the upper registers. Will share my findings in some days on how it pans out.

Note - If one uses medical cotton then please ensure a thinner layer is created before stuffing them in the nozzle.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> For those who are struggling with foam mod (if it's not readily available) and want a quick/easy substitute. Can use cotton to fill in the nozzle and the results are absolutely mind boggling. My $6 KZ EDX sounds way way mature in terms of tuning and presentation. The subbass gets tight and it surprisingly rumbles. Mids are touch softer and don't sound harsh especially in upper registers. Treble spikes are gone and it's laid-back with almost nonexistent loss in details. Soundstage becomes a bit intimate but EDX aren't exactly known for it anyways.
> 
> Mod is super simple and is completely reversible - One has to simply fill the nozzle with small amount of lightly moist cotton and then push it in with a straw or pen refill. Basically something hollow that can get inside the tips. To moist cotton I used hand sanitizer one can use any spirit that evaporates easily. Avoid using water. And voila you are done. Probably one of the easiest mod and doesn't require any special skills or precision. I intend to try this on Tin Hifi T2 which also gets a bit hot in the upper registers. Will share my findings in some days on how it pans out.


I am pretty sure that cotton affects a different (treble) region than foam does.


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## Barusu Lamperouge (Jul 28, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> I am pretty sure that cotton affects a different (treble) region than foam does.


Maybe. Also, EDX is tuned slightly different than DQ6 so can't be compared. But it's an alternative that folks can try, who knows this might work as a substitute. There's absolutely no harm with the mod as one is changing nothing that cannot be reversed.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jul 28, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Maybe. Also, EDX is tuned slightly different than DQ6 so can't be compared. But it's an alternative that folks can try, who knows this might work as well as a substitute. There's absolutely no harm with the mod as one is changing nothing that cannot be reversed.







Yeah, cotton should still be able to tame the peaks.


EDIT: Looks like the peaks are quite similar to the DQ6.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, cotton should still be able to tame the peaks.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Looks like the peaks are quite similar to the DQ6.


Because EDX sounded splashy to me and I thought tweaking of replacing foam with cotton as a damper. But yes, if one uses medical cotton then they need to use a thinner layer to create a roll because I'm sure a thicker layer will definitely nerf treble and make it sound muffled


----------



## arbiter76

RikudouGoku said:


> I am pretty sure that cotton affects a different (treble) region than foam does.


you're probably right but I also think cotton delivers more tame treble where foam would absorb more.


----------



## RikudouGoku

arbiter76 said:


> you're probably right but I also think cotton delivers more tame treble where foam would absorb more.


The reduction depends a lot on the size of the cotton/foam being used.


----------



## teus

Is there already a fix for the crumbling connectors on the ZS 10 pro?
I keep watching Aliexpress for some connectors to come up.


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## lushmelody (Jul 29, 2021)

boredbuyingstuff said:


> Today I decided to test the KZ AST with the stock tips for the first time -- never even considered since I got the IEM. Well, they are pure garbage -- no isolation at all and makes the AST sounds like, well, trash. I have been using the CP360 Large since day one and it is fine...
> 
> But since I was trying I decided to test the AST with Spinfits CP145 Large. Well, it isolates more and is way more comfortable than CP360s. The trick is to insert the tip in the AST so as it covers all the metal part of the nozzle. When inserting in your ears, use the Etymotic technique (of pulling your ears towards the back of your head while inserting the IEM) and it fits really nice and more comfortable than CP360s. When removing the IEM the tip continues attached to the AST without even moving -- at least for me.
> 
> For anyone interested, worth a try.


those are the worst eartips i've ever got with an IEM (even BL-03s are better). i'm fortunate though that AST fits so well for me with any decent tips. i'm used to large eartips for tight seal and improved bass response but the good fit (and thunderous bass) of AST allows medium and more comfort. BGVP W01 is a loose nozzle fit but works - provides even more stereo power from so many drivers (and ++ technicalities combining with small treble boost EQ)

my only issue now is my dac dongle is too simple (no filters, no gain options etc) to check the mids issue (it is very bright at least, maybe it fixed, dunno). i'll have to wait a sale to acquire btr5 (or zishan z4 depending on how it impressions goes)


----------



## boredbuyingstuff (Jul 29, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> those are the worst eartips i've ever got with an IEM (even BL-03s are better). i'm fortunate though that AST fits so well for with any decent tips. i'm used to large eartips for tight seal and improved bass response but the good fit (and thunderous bass) of AST allows medium and more comfort. BGVP W01 is a loose nozzle fit but works - provides even more stereo power from so many drivers (and ++ technicalities combining with small treble boost EQ)
> 
> my only issue now is my dac dongle is too simple (no filters, no gain options etc) to check the mids issue (it is very bright at least, maybe it fixed, dunno). i'll have to wait a sale to acquire btr5 (or zishan z4 depending on how it impressions goes)



I have used my AST with a Hidizs S9 Pro dongle DAC/AMP (no filters or gain options) and later with the Khadas Tone2 Pro which has a gain option. I consider the AST improved a little bit using the Tone2 Pro -- coming from the S9 Pro -- but for me there were no difference whether or not it was in high or low gain except for the volume. I didn't A/B too much because I'm not into spotting the small differences. For me the biggest difference was the change from the stock cable to a balanced cable either in the S9 Pro or the Tone2 Pro.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Went and graphed my old ZS6:









Pretty sure my ZS7 is the first version, no clue about the ZS6 though.


----------



## mndless

boredbuyingstuff said:


> I have used my AST with a Hidizs S9 Pro dongle DAC/AMP (no filters or gain options) and later with the Khadas Tone2 Pro which has a gain option. I consider the AST improved a little bit using the Tone2 Pro -- coming from the S9 Pro -- but for me there were no difference whether or not it was in high or low gain except for the volume. I didn't A/B too much because I'm not into spotting the small differences. For me the biggest difference was the change from the stock cable to a balanced cable either in the S9 Pro or the Tone2 Pro.


Balanced output really is the only way to go if your equipment can use it. You typically get better channel separation and a lowered noise floor along with the main justification for bothering — more power handling.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

mndless said:


> Balanced output really is the only way to go if your equipment can use it. You typically get better channel separation and a lowered noise floor along with the main justification for bothering — more power handling.



FiiO BTR3k shill, checking in. Even DQ6 sounds amazing on the balanced source. I think a person could spend a lot more money to get either more power for over-ears or more coloration in the sound, but not really better sound.  It's clean, accurate, and has plenty of power for IEMs to keep the volumes down and eliminate any hiss or distortion.

I'm drooling over that Cayin C9 on the front page and it looks like its worth every penny. But, euro per ounce, I think the btr3k is probably the best money on hi-fi gear I've ever spent.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> FiiO BTR3k shill, checking in. Even DQ6 sounds amazing on the balanced source. I think a person could spend a lot more money to get either more power for over-ears or more coloration in the sound, but not really better sound.  It's clean, accurate, and has plenty of power for IEMs to keep the volumes down and eliminate any hiss or distortion.
> 
> I'm drooling over that Cayin C9 on the front page and it looks like its worth every penny. But, euro per ounce, I think the btr3k is probably the best money on hi-fi gear I've ever spent.


I wholeheartedly agree - BTR3K (and BTR5) are realy great and the price per function seems unbeatable!

BTR3K is very neutral, great power, zero background noise, really well built, and amazing battery life.

Fiio really nailed it with BTR3K and BTR5!

BTR3K does pair really well with more energetic IEMs like DQ6.

I hope to see BTR5K or BTR7 - just a better battery life and a bit longer BT range than BTR5 will nicely do.


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## r31ya (Jul 30, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> I wholeheartedly agree - BTR3K (and BTR5) are realy great and the price per function seems unbeatable!
> 
> BTR3K is very neutral, great power, zero background noise, really well built, and amazing battery life.
> 
> ...


BTR5 user here, i loved it.
Much more neutral and clearer than the more colored DFR.

Wet vocal lover would love some Cayin. I forgot which one i tried, but that Cayin DAP have really sultry vocal presentation


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> I hope to see BTR5K or BTR7 - just a better battery life and a bit longer BT range than BTR5 will nicely do.


I have been planning to order a BTR5 to use as a primary home/desktop device since it has the better USB chip, and keep this as my walk-around and night stand device. The SQ was a lot better than I expected so I haven't yet had a desire to hit the button. An updated flagship would be an insta-buy. 



r31ya said:


> Wet vocal lover would love some Cayin. I forgot which one i tried, but that Cayin DAP have really sultry vocal presentation



I need to hear a bit more dirty talk like that to liberate 2 g's out of my account. What's a good example of wet vocals? does this just mean vocals with effects or a lot of reverb on 'em?


----------



## lushmelody

the only thing im concerned about BTR5 is the LED durability... my old alpen E17 screen died in a year


----------



## ChrisOc

lushmelody said:


> the only thing im concerned about BTR5 is the LED durability... my old alpen E17 screen died in a year


Your concern may or may not be valid. I have had the BTR5 since it was launched and the LED works just fine. Everything has the potential to fail so look at it in a positive light. 

In most instances, you increase and reduce the volume without looking at the screen. You have sonic notification that the BTR5 has been turned on or off. Obviously, pause and play does not require the display (as you can tell that the sound has been paused or is playing) and is not displayed on the screen in any case.

Even more reassuring, if the LED fails, you can control most functions, if not every function on the BTR5 using the Fiio App.

If you like the BTR5 and it is in the right price range for you, get it, but don't let the worry about the durability of the LED stop you.


----------



## lushmelody

ChrisOc said:


> Your concern may or may not be valid. I have had the BTR5 since it was launched and the LED works just fine. Everything has the potential to fail so look at it in a positive light.
> 
> In most instances, you increase and reduce the volume without looking at the screen. You have sonic notification that the BTR5 has been turned on or off. Obviously, pause and play does not require the display (as you can tell that the sound has been paused or is playing) and is not displayed on the screen in any case.
> 
> ...


the app is a wonderful feature indeed, i forgot to consider it


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

What's great about the app is that it still works and shows information while being connected to two sources. I use the app to control charging, USB priority, and see volume level while connected to my laptop.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I can't describe the sheer enjoyment I'm continuing to get out of the DQ6. I even stopped EQ'ing. I think the ZAX and even the C12 are obviously "better" in technicalities, but for plug and play pair these are really good. And 20 euros shipped including VAT? No brainer.


----------



## Godflesh

Is there a lot of negative to this model? Why? They are not suitable for smortfonam. Of all the company's headphones fault, these are the best. The sound is good. There were headphones kz 10pro. Thick bass and treble smooth.(google tr.)


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## PhonoPhi (Aug 1, 2021)

Godflesh said:


> Is there a lot of negative to this model? Why? They are not suitable for smortfonam. Of all the company's headphones fault, these are the best. The sound is good. There were headphones kz 10pro. Thick bass and treble smooth.(google tr.)


A good question.

ASF & ASX has been received as a quite "mixed bag" KZs, indeed.

In my limited opinion, their really narrow nozzles do not work universally for everyone - different tastes and preferences (or ear cavity coupling).

In ASX, at least one sound guide fires directly into the rim of the nozzle, so it limits/striangulates the sound.
Perhaps, a good acoustic design was just forced into their recent most popular form factor from wireless (?)

Then many enjoy ASX & ASF as far as I know - tastes (and ear cavities) are differerent.

For me, ASX are my favourite pair by far, though with the wide nozzles (from ZSN/A10).
The modified ASX are my most bass-head pair (way more than AST that is touted as bass heavy), rich in mids and not slacking in treble either. They do sound rich and edgy.

As much as I like AST (and give KZ all the due credit for the great BA array and making AST sound most "un-KZ"), ASX wins for my sound preference. Late Beethoven string quartets by Takács are so engaging with ASX, while with AST, they sound just smooth, as possibly preferred by most audiophiles 

Then ASF are the only all-BA pair of KZ and CCA that I do not own since I just got a second pair of ASX.


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## Godflesh

PhonoPhi said:


> Then many enjoy ASX & ASF as far as I know - tastes (and ear cavities) are differerent.


Even so. Our reviewers compared these two models, and came to the conclusion that ASF sound even better than ASX. Since I really liked this model, I plan to buy the ACX model in the future. Sorry for the translator! In my country, these two models are very unpopular. Decided to test whether the same everywhere.))


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## PhonoPhi

Godflesh said:


> Even so. Our reviewers compared these two models, and came to the conclusion that ASF sound even better than ASX. Since I really liked this model, I plan to buy the ACX model in the future. Sorry for the translator! In my country, these two models are very unpopular. Decided to test whether the same everywhere.))


ASF may be affected more by the narrow nozzles.
ASX got much more attention and a lot of criticism compared to ASF.
So ASF could be unfaiirly afected by the shadow cast by ASX.

I really like ASF design, perhaps I should get it one day


----------



## Godflesh

PhonoPhi said:


> I really like ASF design, perhaps I should get it one day


The design is large.  The sound was impressive. After them, my Sony xba a3  have been safely discarded in the trash.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Godflesh said:


> The design is large.  The sound was impressive. After them, my Sony xba a3  have been safely discarded in the trash.


You threw away the XBA-A3? I sure hope not, they can still be sold for around 100-300 usd depending on the condition....


----------



## Godflesh

This company decided to conquer the whole world? enslave everyone.))


----------



## Godflesh

RikudouGoku said:


> You threw away the XBA-A3? I sure hope not, they can still be sold for around 100-300 usd depending on the condition....


No, I didn't. Figure of speech. Not bad, but disappointing. Left in the collection.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Godflesh said:


> No, I didn't. Figure of speech. Not bad, but disappointing. Left in the collection.


Sony´s older stuff are quite warm and bassy, you might just prefer brighter tonalities like KZ uses.


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## Godflesh

RikudouGoku said:


> Sony´s older stuff are quite warm and bassy, you might just prefer brighter tonalities like KZ uses.


I love the sound that plays correctly. But the sony headphones play just as well on my smartphone. The player did not fit. There is no synergy.


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## lushmelody (Aug 1, 2021)

all my earlier AST considerations were pairing it with an AKM (famous sharp mids) usb dac and i think is a nice combo (any bright tone dac will do wonders i guess). i kept tinkering around AST midrange though after some discussions here and bc is a bassy set

if you have a way to reduce bass pressure on other frequency ranges (my solution is whirlwind tips), vocals and treble are presented fully and the tone is smooth, nothing is lacking there (things are just not too sparkly, but you can slight EQ if you want that). i personally don't EQ bass bc i think it is easy to mess this region

some thoughts to add - about tone - comparing to my DD sets

 - i don't know if it is because is BA bass, but subbass is very weak, DDs clearly are rumble winners  but AST midbass is perfect

- midrange is very clean, not much reverb compared to the DDs (i dont know if it is bc is BAxDD or the tuning)

- treble implementation is satisfying in layering (my same tuning single DDs struggle and in some music genres treble is too congested, very one note)*

i think i did all experiments i could with the things i own. im satisfied with this set and trying BAs first time. my personal audiophile journey is now acquire a decent DAC with filters options (BTR5 i think). thanks for whoever gave my impressions credit


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

lushmelody said:


> all my earlier AST considerations were pairing it with an AKM (famous sharp mids) usb dac and i think is a nice combo (any bright tone dac will do wonders i guess). i kept tinkering around AST midrange though after some discussions here and bc is a bassy set
> 
> if you have a way to reduce bass pressure on other frequency ranges (my solution is whirlwind tips), vocals and treble are presented fully and the tone is smooth, nothing is lacking there (things are just not too sparkly, but you can slight EQ if you want that). i personally don't EQ bass bc i think it is easy to mess this region
> 
> ...


Probably old Starlines tips can help you with sub-bass rumble and mids. But it might induce the splashy KZ peaks. One way to mitigate that is to damp your IEMs by foam/cotton.

I have a KZ BA10 and it definitely rumbles and probably has bass that matches a DD. With damped starlines they're fantastic. Definitely worth a shot if you have some spare starlines handy.


----------



## KutuzovGambit

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I can't describe the sheer enjoyment I'm continuing to get out of the DQ6. I even stopped EQ'ing. I think the ZAX and even the C12 are obviously "better" in technicalities, but for plug and play pair these are really good. And 20 euros shipped including VAT? No brainer.


Fully agree. I enjoy it as much or more as models 10x the price.


----------



## seanwee

lushmelody said:


> - i don't know if it is because is BA bass, but subbass is very weak, DDs clearly are rumble winners  but AST midbass is perfect
> 
> - midrange is very clean, not much reverb compared to the DDs (i dont know if it is bc is BAxDD or the tuning)
> 
> ...


From my experience demoing hundreds of sets of iems, blanket statements like multi ba having better layering compared to single DD or DD iems having better bass is a case of correlation does not equal causation.

There are many sets of multi ba iems I’ve demoed, quite a few of them being kilobuck items that have very bad layering due to their warm dark tuning causing them to sound muddy. Likewise there are DD iems that outclass the majority of multi BAs in terms of detail, clarity, and instrument separation. For example my FDX1 goes toe to toe with my Sony IER-M9 in terms of clarity and detail even when one is a $300 single DD and the other is a kilobuck 5 BA iem. 

Specs are nice on paper and exciting to read, but ultimately it’s the tuning that makes or breaks an iem.


----------



## lushmelody (Aug 1, 2021)

seanwee said:


> From my experience demoing hundreds of sets of iems, blanket statements like multi ba having better layering compared to single DD or DD iems having better bass is a case of correlation does not equal causation.
> 
> There are many sets of multi ba iems I’ve demoed, quite a few of them being kilobuck items that have very bad layering due to their warm dark tuning causing them to sound muddy. Likewise there are DD iems that outclass the majority of multi BAs in terms of detail, clarity, and instrument separation. For example my FDX1 goes toe to toe with my Sony IER-M9 in terms of clarity and detail even when one is a $300 single DD and the other is a kilobuck 5 BA iem.
> 
> Specs are nice on paper and exciting to read, but ultimately it’s the tuning that makes or breaks an iem.


i completely agree. i mistakenly generalized in that post, my comparison is between the budget warm/dark sets i own and i should've made that clear


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## AmericanSpirit (Aug 3, 2021)

I was revisiting ear tips for KZ AST today, since I had to give CP360 on AST to GK10.
Usually I pass stocks tips of KZ series but I’ve noticed the short nozzle soft white silicone ear tips does good treble extension, which will open up the true potentials of 50024sx6 super tweeter’s detailed layering.

If anyone overlooked stock short nozzle soft white silicone tips, like me, you may give it a try👍 

AST performs very good with tracks with very complex upper registers like full orchestral


----------



## tkddans (Aug 4, 2021)

_----From another thread but for here too----_

SO WHY DON'T YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE TODAAYYYY!!

God I love Dead Letter Circus...

IF I COULD - I WOULD NOT REACT TO YOU
IF I COULD - I WOULD HAVE NO REACTION







Aria still kicking it good after just trying out the KZ ZAS.



The KZ ZAS ($74) is bad out of box (for me). Trying it out on my reference list, and the first track immediately had me thinking "WHAT...is _this_ bass?? Why is it so elevated sounding?"

I haven't looked at a graph yet of these. I like to hear them without knowing anything going in - sometimes. Tonight was a night of discovering what this well passed around name has in store. And woah did it butcher how I've come to known the track "Beautiful World."






Playing it again as I type...oh no! Oh no no no. I don't like that very much. Not my cup of bass tea.

I wouldn't even call it _warm_. That word could portray a sense of bloom. This isn't bloom...this is loud clear bass, I could say. Sub bass it may sound like? I'll check the graph later. This sound could be nice to someone maybe, but the sounds coming out of my music that I know so well is another story. Going now to another track like Lean On, with again much more bass than I remember hearing from my of my playback systems. Not _bad_ per-se, but not hitting me where I'm used to hearing the bass being driven up to. Odd!

Listening to "Lean On" and I get vocals that sound unknown - foreign - to me. Too off kilter.






Listening now to a Hurt cover by Youn Sun Nah...






Ok I gotta put this to video. Typing is too slow! Impressions out of the box continuing on cam!....

My ranking system has just been changed. What the rankings means has changed.

Aria's rank...changed. Moved it from S to a B+.

Ranks no longer based on enjoyment to be in a "S," the S is only for gear that engages greatly and can inspire. Explanation unfolding in this impressions video of the KZ ZAS:

EDIT:: Video taken down. I want to give a better upload of my impressions (shot the video authentically when I had feelings to share about the out of box experience, but the walls are not acoustically treated well, and lighting isn't my normal setup).

I will have another video up, hopefully. Or I may move on to other things soon anyway.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

tkddans said:


> _----From another thread but for here too----_
> 
> SO WHY DON'T YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE TODAAYYYY!!
> 
> ...


From my past experience of 50024s and 30019 used in ZAS, tuning of AST, and XUN driver in DQ6, Z1Pro you will get better outcome with:
1: low-gain
2: less bass amplified DAP(like E1DA, or directly line out )
3: XUN driver need 30hour-ish burn in for better timbre
4: Try different low-pass filters, it reacts well 

One of my respected japanese reviwer with 20 years of experience mentioned ZAS is the best of KZ got, but not an easy IEM to get it sounding right, so I’m having a good expectations. 

Same thing can be said to AST, one of hardest set to get it tuned to acceptable level by my standard, but the base spec of the IEM is pretty good, not superb, but pretty nice especially for 50024sx6 treble handling.


----------



## tkddans

AmericanSpirit said:


> From my past experience of 50024s and 30019 used in ZAS, tuning of AST, and XUN driver in DQ6, Z1Pro you will get better outcome with:
> 1: low-gain
> 2: less bass amplified DAP(like E1DA, or directly line out )
> 3: XUN driver need 30hour-ish burn in for better timbre
> ...


What a shame. These things shouldn’t require major adjustments to get the drivers to do what most people would prefer. They should leave the box to begin with as good tuning as possible. Otherwise, not many people are going to have the time and energy to fiddle so much, let alone actually find the better experience out and then be able to communicate it to enough of the community.

Tuning should happen as best as possible by the manufacturer or they risk hitting a wall with how many people end up satisfied.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

tkddans said:


> What a shame. These things shouldn’t require major adjustments to get the drivers to do what most people would prefer. They should leave the box to begin with as good tuning as possible. Otherwise, not many people are going to have the time and energy to fiddle so much, let alone actually find the better experience out and then be able to communicate it to enough of the community.
> 
> Tuning should happen as best as possible by the manufacturer or they risk hitting a wall with how many people end up satisfied.


Right…good example is blessing2, it sounds as good just out of the box and most of moondrop products are


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> From my past experience of 50024s and 30019 used in ZAS, tuning of AST, and XUN driver in DQ6, Z1Pro you will get better outcome with:
> 1: low-gain
> 2: less bass amplified DAP(like E1DA, or directly line out )
> 3: XUN driver need 30hour-ish burn in for better timbre
> ...


Gotta say my AST is performing superbly without too much trouble. Shanling M8 High gain + good cable (gold plated cables sound best). I say it is about 80-85% as good as the Variations. Not too much luck with the ZAS thou, resolution is lower than the cheapo CSN to my ears.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> Gotta say my AST is performing superbly without too much trouble. Shanling M8 High gain + good cable (gold plated cables sound best). I say it is about 80-85% as good as the Variations. Not too much luck with the ZAS thou, resolution is lower than the cheapo CSN to my ears.


Ah that’s sad to hear I’m receiving ZAS in a week..
Well I may have a hope for TRN X7 then.


----------



## tkddans

AmericanSpirit said:


> Ah that’s sad to hear I’m receiving ZAS in a week..
> Well I may have a hope for TRN X7 then.


Who knows! Maybe it'll work out for your taste  or maybe not


----------



## AmericanSpirit

tkddans said:


> Who knows! Maybe it'll work out for your taste  or maybe not


Yea, hopefully!
I have same view for AST (80-85% of Variations) with saldsald, so it put up a good chance of ZAS not being my like😭


----------



## MacAttack7

Godflesh said:


> Is there a lot of negative to this model? Why? They are not suitable for smortfonam. Of all the company's headphones fault, these are the best. The sound is good. There were headphones kz 10pro. Thick bass and treble smooth.(google tr.)


I liked these ASF's so much I bought a 2nd pair.
I think they are just kind of forgotten and overshadowed by the ASX.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 4, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> I liked these ASF's so much I bought a 2nd pair.
> I think they are just kind of forgotten and overshadowed by the ASX.



I believe you and am probably going to order a pair of the ASF instead of ZAS. KZ/CCA has cranked out so many sets that it's tough to keep up with all of them. I'm listening to Rachmaninoff's _Vespers_ right now on the also-overlooked CCA C12 and I just think they're_ fantastic_. I picked up an 8 core balanced copper cable just for these and am using KZ branded foam tips. It's like being plugged into the main mixer in the recording studio.   

Like the ASF/ASX I never saw any glowing reviews for this set, just that they were tuned a bit more neutral compared to their KZ counterpart, the ZSX. With a mild EQ bump these have such a beautiful crystal clear treble and upper mids response. Bass quality is superb, and they have a very surprising subbass extension for just being a 7mm driver. With so many in the mix, some are hits and some are misses, but it's not such a big issue IMO really if a pair seem like a dud to your ears.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 4, 2021)

I always liked C12 with classical music. Most classical recordings are quite gentle in treble (no electronic instruments, and in many older recordings, the treble is rolled for listening comfort), so IEMs with energetic/rich treble work well.

KZ and CCA are definitely underappreciated in general. One factor is less review samples for "unbiased opinions", but it keeps prices lower.

Today, I finally got to modify AST with a wide nozzle (thank you, TRN).

The difference is much less pronounced than for the modified ASX (my prime IEM), but I am biased to like it - just a bit more treble, and a bit more open. Since direct comparisons are hard, it can largely be my wishful imagination, but as long as it works - similar to those silver/copper cables - why not 

KZ does use wider nozzles in AST (starting from DQ6 as some reported here) compared to ASX - ~3.8 mm vs. 3 mm for the inner diameter, while the outer diameter is actually the same.
Also the sound guides are directed more to the center of the nozzle, so they are not likely blocked by the nozzle.

The next possible step with AST is to enlarge the treble guides to further enhance the treble, these guides are really tiny.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

tkddans said:


> What a shame. These things shouldn’t require major adjustments to get the drivers to do what most people would prefer. They should leave the box to begin with as good tuning as possible.



KZ disappointments hit hard because expectations are so high. We know they could slow down and do better ... But they seem to prioritize new models on an unrealistic schedule that leaves inadequate time for tuning.  IMO they could double their sales if they spent more time on fewer models.


----------



## saldsald (Aug 4, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Ah that’s sad to hear I’m receiving ZAS in a week..
> Well I may have a hope for TRN X7 then.


Didn't know about this X7, and not much info about it officially just German resin, lol. Very nice colour and I always like TRN's shells...I may need to get a pair....

Btw, can I get the link to this Japanese reviewer's site you mentioned?

Edit:



So a BA5 with an extra pair of 50060...


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> Didn't know about this X7, and not much info about it officially just German resin, lol. Very nice colour and I always like TRN's shells...I may need to get a pair....
> 
> Btw, can I get the link to this Japanese reviewer's site you mentioned?
> 
> ...


I'll have to see some graphs before I trust them with three 30095 series drivers per earpiece. Seems like it could easily become stabbey.


----------



## saldsald

mndless said:


> I'll have to see some graphs before I trust them with three 30095 series drivers per earpiece. Seems like it could easily become stabbey.


I find the BA5's treble to be quite pleasing and I assume this X7 will be based on the same tuning but with an extra pair of 50060 for more mids, maybe? And this can be a little boring.


----------



## saldsald (Aug 5, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea, hopefully!
> I have same view for AST (80-85% of Variations) with saldsald, so it put up a good chance of ZAS not being my like😭


The tuning and the expanded stage effect are actually pretty nice but I just find it lacking resolution in the upper mids and treble when needed. I still think it is a keeper just it can be better. It works fine for vocal and violin but the timbre is really inaccurate for cello alike. It is like there is a lot missing above a certain frequency.


----------



## r31ya

saldsald said:


> I find the BA5's treble to be quite pleasing and I assume this X7 will be based on the same tuning but with an extra pair of 50060 for more mids, maybe? And this can be a little boring.


Its not a semi open like BA5. I haven't heard BA5, so wonder whether it have positive or negative effect to the sound.


----------



## r31ya

saldsald said:


> The tuning and the expanded stage effect are actually pretty nice but I just find it lacking resolution in the upper mids and treble when needed. I still think it is a keeper just it can be better. It works fine for vocal and violin but the timbre is really inaccurate for cello alike. It is like there is a lot missing above a certain frequency.


KZ set-up and tuning is a still hit or miss.
It was fine when it was $15~$30 but at $60+?


----------



## saldsald

r31ya said:


> Its not a semi open like BA5. I haven't heard BA5, so wonder whether it have positive or negative effect to the sound.


I may be wrong but I don't think BA5 is actually semi-open but the vent hole is just part of the design.


----------



## saldsald

r31ya said:


> KZ set-up and tuning is a still hit or miss.
> It was fine when it was $15~$30 but at $60+?


Maybe we are too spoiled by Chinese earphones. 60 is still quite cheap if you compare to more mainstream brands.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 5, 2021)

If one bumps the bass sliders _downward_, the zax is capable of emulating the same kind of revealing nature as my grado se80. it doesn't have the same soundstage that makes grado famous, but microdetails and recording artifacts are so audible that it verges on being distracting. IMO it is indeed a _lot_ of sound quality for 60 50 euro. I have a harder time biting off on the AST for 130 USD knowing that it has tuning issues.


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> If one bumps the bass sliders _downward_, the zax is capable of emulating the same kind of revealing nature as my grado se80. it doesn't have the same soundstage that makes grado famous, but microdetails and recording artifacts are so audible that it verges on being distracting. IMO it is indeed a _lot_ of sound quality for 60 50 euro. I have a harder time biting off on the AST for 130 USD knowing that it has tuning issues.


What tuning issues?


----------



## forestitalia

The missing highs...


----------



## saldsald (Aug 6, 2021)

The highs are not missing even compared to my relatively bright Moondrop Variations. Sell me yours for my projects.

Anyway, 

1. try in high gain mode; 
2. try with softer tips such as spinfit cp100, cp360.


----------



## Leo-rume

As seen on CCA twitter this morning with this quote: 
"CCA's New journey: electrostatic unit
The price is beyond imagination
Stay tuned"

Very much likely going to be the cheapest electrostatic in the market and going by recent history, we should be expecting the KZ variant soon...


----------



## saldsald

Leo-rume said:


> As seen on CCA twitter this morning with this quote:
> "CCA's New journey: electrostatic unit
> The price is beyond imagination
> Stay tuned"
> ...


I bet it has TDK's type of electrostatic driver not Sonion's so this is more like the MT300/Pro.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

saldsald said:


> I bet it has TDK's type of electrostatic driver not Sonion's so this is more like the MT300/Pro.


And that TDK's electrostatic driver is not a electrostatic driver. It's a piezo. S.F.R. tricked all of us by making us believe that it was an EST.

It is known as Electromagnetic buzzer which is nothing a but a piezoelectric driver. More can be learnt below.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/geek-wold-discussion-gk10.958787/post-16471079


----------



## mndless

Leo-rume said:


> As seen on CCA twitter this morning with this quote:
> "CCA's New journey: electrostatic unit
> The price is beyond imagination
> Stay tuned"
> ...


I'll be curious to see what the actual driver load out ends up and how it graphs. CCA has had some very nice IEMs over the years, so I hope this one isn't a flop even if it's using a magnetostat or some other approximation of an EST driver. Honestly, none of that particularly matters as long as it is interesting and sounds good. Hopefully it'll be priced around the CKX, but it'll probably be higher.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

mndless said:


> I'll be curious to see what the actual driver load out ends up and how it graphs. CCA has had some very nice IEMs over the years, so I hope this one isn't a flop even if it's using a magnetostat or some other approximation of an EST driver. Honestly, none of that particularly matters as long as it is interesting and sounds good. Hopefully it'll be priced around the CKX, but it'll probably be higher.


It will cost around $70 and drop to $50 during sales. Mostly it will be a magnetostatic or a TDK piezo. Much like MT300 and Shuoer Tape


----------



## saldsald (Aug 6, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> And that TDK's electrostatic driver is not a electrostatic driver. It's a piezo. S.F.R. tricked all of us by making us believe that it was an EST.
> 
> It is known as Electromagnetic buzzer which is nothing a but a piezoelectric driver. More can be learnt below.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/geek-wold-discussion-gk10.958787/post-16471079


From this description:

The distortion rate is lower than that of moving iron (BA) unit

I say it has to be this electromagnetic buzzer or piezo or whatever you like to call it.

I remember MT300 costed about USD70 so we knew it couldn't be a true electrostatic driver anyway.

Edit: Actually it is a 3 Dynamic Circle (Drivers) (gosh the translation...and how did I not see that...) so...maybe they are going to put two in there (or all three?) like an upgrade DQ6.


----------



## r31ya

mndless said:


> I'll be curious to see what the actual driver load out ends up and how it graphs. CCA has had some very nice IEMs over the years, so I hope this one isn't a flop even if it's using a magnetostat or some other approximation of an EST driver. Honestly, none of that particularly matters as long as it is interesting and sounds good. Hopefully it'll be priced around the CKX, but it'll probably be higher.


Recent good CCA : CCA-CA16, CCA CKX, CCA CSN
Questionable recent CCA : CCA CS16, CCA CC12 Pro 
Questionable due to sharp treble apparenlty.

But so far, CCA have more consistent track record compared to KZ siblings


----------



## mndless (Aug 6, 2021)

Whoops, wrong thread.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

saldsald said:


> From this description:
> 
> The distortion rate is lower than that of moving iron (BA) unit
> 
> ...


Lolol. And here we are expecting EST. Don't think KZ or CCA will go for ESTs anytime soon. The sonion driver costs as much retail price of KZ ZAS


----------



## baskingshark

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Lolol. And here we are expecting EST. Don't think KZ or CCA will go for ESTs anytime soon. The sonion driver costs as much retail price of KZ ZAS



Haha true that. Anyways I think we should all not be focused so much on driver type, driver brand or driver count. More important is the tuning and implementation. 

One can have world class ingredients but a lousy cook and the meal will still be a mess.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Haha true that. Anyways I think we should all not be focused so much on driver type, driver brand or driver count. More important is the tuning and implementation.
> 
> One can have world class ingredients but a lousy cook and the meal will still be a mess.


Exactly. A gourmet dish can be created with basic ingredients if the chef is skilled. Ultimately it should sound great rest everything is secondary. If a pixie dust driver sounds better than EST I'm all game for pixie dust drivers.


----------



## Leo-rume

saldsald said:


> Edit: Actually it is a 3 Dynamic Circle (Drivers) (gosh the translation...and how did I not see that...) so...maybe they are going to put two in there (or all three?) like an upgrade DQ6.


According to CCA, it's going to have One "electrostatic unit," One 3core DD unit (Whatever that core count means) and one BA unit. For reference, they claim DQ6 uses three 2core DD uniits


----------



## saldsald

Leo-rume said:


> According to CCA, it's going to have One "electrostatic unit," One 3core DD unit (Whatever that core count means) and one BA unit. For reference, they claim DQ6 uses three 2core DD uniits


Ok What, I just asked CCA. This will cost 150 RMB and it is a 3 core DD + one electrostatic!!!!!!


----------



## RikudouGoku

saldsald said:


> Ok What, I just asked CCA. This will cost 150 RMB and it is a 3 core DD + one electrostatic!!!!!!


Sounds like its a piezo driver then, even a magnetostat is probably way too expensive.


----------



## saldsald

RikudouGoku said:


> Sounds like its a piezo driver then, even a magnetostat is probably way too expensive.


It will be a 6.8mm magnetostat.


----------



## RikudouGoku

saldsald said:


> It will be a 6.8mm magnetostat.


Probably not the same as the Earbridge Magnetostat then.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-world-s-first-magneto-static-earphone-hpsd-e70#/


----------



## r31ya

baskingshark said:


> Haha true that. Anyways I think we should all not be focused so much on driver type, driver brand or driver count. More important is the tuning and implementation.
> 
> One can have world class ingredients but a lousy cook and the meal will still be a mess.


Yeah, there is that unspeakable brand that pops out tribid in affordable price and its sound... so meh


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 6, 2021)

ZAS arrived!

Pretty good! I changed the ear tip to CP360, the bass isn’t as elevated as I expected from AST experience, I feel it is in accord with modern IEM tuning with CP360(it lowers bass floor btw).

I couldn’t stand the excessive bass for AST, so I had to turn off the amping on DAP, sourced from a line-out for AST, which is not the case for ZAS.

-Right out of the box, XUN DD from the experience of DQ6, Z1Pro, still shows some sign of distortion
-overall it’s nicely tuned IEM, non-harsh, warm, mid-range peak, bass elevated
-W shaped with main weight on lower mid
-a tamed ZAX
-staging is OK, average
-best cohesive IEM of KZ
-lacks air /presence extension, a darker one
-resolution is great

-mid-range is the specialty of ZAS, which by nature is not very easy to tell, not like treble texturing /layering. But piano harmonics definitely have better texture and sense of layering compared to other KZ

overall: ZAS is a Maturity of KZ, a company started with low-budget IEMs to tackle the market full of $500+.  They started with the Cooler side ( some call it “grainy” due to lack of proper real-world overtones) and V-shaped low-budget IEM. At a time yes, Ultimate Ears Triple.fi 10 Pro, had similar tonality, and KZ followed that.

Things and tonality preference have shifted, UE brand is now long lost in hifi community, KZ as well started shifting its sound making from energetic V shape to calmer tuning.
They tried with ZAX (targeting Harman with KZ V), ASX (too dark and still too V), and then AST( dark and extreme amount of bass), finally I feel KZ reached their target tuning (matured but still enjoyable)

For customers who loved old KZ “the energetic one”, this new approach is getting away from that. Some will feel
“The resolution is lowered, brightness is gone”, some may feel “the fun factor is gone”, some may feel “finally some matured tuning for acoustics” it depends on the image of KZ each one got.

I’m the latter one, feeling “ finally, after following KZ from 2016, KZ is matured.”


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Lolol. And here we are expecting EST. Don't think KZ or CCA will go for ESTs anytime soon. The sonion driver costs as much retail price of KZ ZAS


The one with piezo is very possible, piezo drivers are very very cheap $2 or $3 per piece on AE.


----------



## Nimweth

A


r31ya said:


> Recent good CCA : CCA-CA16, CCA CKX, CCA CSN
> Questionable recent CCA : CCA CS16, CCA CC12 Pro
> Questionable due to sharp treble apparenlty.
> 
> But so far, CCA have more consistent track record compared to KZ siblings


Absolutely, CS16 and C10 Pro,  very bright tuning on both.


----------



## Leo-rume

saldsald said:


> Ok What, I just asked CCA. This will cost 150 RMB and it is a 3 core DD + one electrostatic!!!!!!



Woah, that is a LOT cheaper than I thought it could ever be. To be fair, they did literally say "The price is beyond imagination" Lol...Kudos to KZ/CCA!!!
I could have sworn they said it included one BA unit though. Well, We wait.....


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> ZAS arrived!
> 
> Pretty good! I changed the ear tip to CP360, the bass isn’t as elevated as I expected from AST experience, I feel it is in accord with modern IEM tuning with CP360(it lowers bass floor btw).
> 
> ...


Hmmm, quite a different impression as mine especially in terms of air and staging and also resolution. It has that kind of mid range air IMO and rather big stage. I wait for your updated impression after proper burn-in.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Leo-rume said:


> Woah, that is a LOT cheaper than I thought it could ever be. To be fair, they did literally say "The price is beyond imagination" Lol...Kudos to KZ/CCA!!!
> I could have sworn they said it included one BA unit though. Well, We wait.....


Sub $300 paradigm shifting IEM, Geek Wold GK10 is 2piezo +1BA + 1 mid range graphene coated DD + 1 titanium coated bass DD for $46, so maybe! 

150 RMB is 23USD, KZ, CCA has a highly automated manufacturing process unlike other handcrafted / labor-extensive small shops, they may be able to host something that contains 1BA with that price too.. hopefully, they could tune it right though, not just throwing everything in a box and calling it done.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> Hmmm, quite a different impression as mine especially in terms of air and staging and also resolution. It has that kind of mid range air IMO and rather big stage. I wait for your updated impression after proper burn-in.


it doesn't have big stage, I feel it's almost below average. And yes Mid-range air is present, pretty enjoyable for acoustics. and Vocals are more full-bodied.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

saldsald said:


> Ok What, I just asked CCA. This will cost 150 RMB and it is a 3 core DD + one electrostatic!!!!!!


If true, then I sense is that KZ has somehow reverse engineered the Sonions and is manufacturing them on their own. Else there's no way on earth they can keep the price under $30 and use a electrostat/magnetostat.


AmericanSpirit said:


> The one with piezo is very possible, piezo drivers are very very cheap $2 or $3 per piece on AE.


Probably my guess as well. Unless, KZ comes forth and shares the detailed driver tech, it's all speculation. But considering how much those drivers cost they can't afford to keep prices this low and outsource drivers procurement.


----------



## Mouseman

AmericanSpirit said:


> Sub $300 paradigm shifting IEM, Geek Wold GK10 is 2piezo +1BA + 1 mid range graphene coated DD + 1 titanium coated bass DD for $46, so maybe!
> 
> 150 RMB is 23USD, KZ, CCA has a highly automated manufacturing process unlike other handcrafted / labor-extensive small shops, they may be able to host something that contains 1BA with that price too.. hopefully, they could tune it right though, not just throwing everything in a box and calling it done.


I don't think KZ (usually) does that, but I think we've all run into those IEMs where it's 10 pounds of cr@p in a five pound bag. I have several things in my collection where it's some stuff thrown in a box, and it's far from done. And my collection is probably nowhere near as varied as yours. 

Even if KZ just copies the GK10 configuration, I'd be interested to see their take on it. I was enjoying mine all morning before I swapped to my Devas.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 6, 2021)

Mouseman said:


> I don't think KZ (usually) does that, but I think we've all run into those IEMs where it's 10 pounds of cr@p in a five pound bag. I have several things in my collection where it's some stuff thrown in a box, and it's far from done. And my collection is probably nowhere near as varied as yours.
> 
> Even if KZ just copies the GK10 configuration, I'd be interested to see their take on it. I was enjoying mine all morning before I swapped to my Devas.


KZ started to care for tuning, after my history of following KZ since 2016, they started to care for tuning from late 2020 if your memory is from pre-2020, your impression might be right, I had the same impression. But asking KZ tuning skills for GK10....hmmm that's a tough call. 

My history of KZ/CCA
-ZST Pro
-ZS5
-ZS10
-ZS10Pro
-ZSN
-ZSN ProX
-AS10
-AS12
-AS16
-ASX
-AST
-ZAX
-ZAS
-EDX
-S1D
-SKS
-Z1Pro
-CS10
-C10 Pro
-CA16
-CS16


----------



## Mouseman

AmericanSpirit said:


> KZ started to care for tuning, after my history of following KZ since 2016, they started to care for tuning from late 2020 if your memory is from pre-2020, your impression might be right, I had the same impression. But asking KZ tuning skills for GK10....hmmm that's a tough call.
> 
> My history of KZ/CCA
> -ZST Pro
> ...


Those are definitely the better ones. I have some of the earlier units, and I still enjoy them even if they're not quite so special. But I was talking more about some other manufacturers who ship out junk with what looks like good specs that ends up being unlistenable. 

Yeah, I know I'm being optimistic that anyone could get close to the GK10 at that price point. But KZ has been churning out some winners lately (TWS notwithstanding).


----------



## AmericanSpirit

AmericanSpirit said:


> ZAS arrived!
> 
> Pretty good! I changed the ear tip to CP360, the bass isn’t as elevated as I expected from AST experience, I feel it is in accord with modern IEM tuning with CP360(it lowers bass floor btw).
> 
> ...


Following up after listening ZAS for this whole day, XUN DD got relaxed over this session already:

-ZAS is better tuned than AST, specifically no excessive bass and brighter (but not harsh by any means) treble
-With this tuning and clarify, I think ZAS is a better buy than AST considering $65 vs $120, AST still get upper hand on treble texturing and layering
-ZAS got the upper hand on mid-range, more full and airy than AST
-it will be a straight upgrade from ZAX

So far I'm feeling ZAS as "Good" IEM over vocals/pops, Grade B (same with Starfield $120), it's a good buy, letting aside GeekWold GK10.(Grade A with $46..)


----------



## r31ya (Aug 6, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Following up after listening ZAS for this whole day, XUN DD got relaxed over this session already:
> 
> -ZAS is better tuned than AST, specifically no excessive bass and brighter (but not harsh by any means) treble
> -With this tuning and clarify, I think ZAS is a better buy than AST considering $65 vs $120, AST still get upper hand on treble texturing and layering
> ...


So GeekWold still above it, annoying thing about "smaller brand" in my place is that it will take awhile before it sold locally and usually at high mark up
KZ ZAS already sold in my local market since we do have KZ official brand store, but so far nope for Geek Wold GK10.

Hows ZAS compared to recent darling, Aria?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

r31ya said:


> So GeekWold still above it, annoying thing about "smaller brand" in my place is that it will take awhile before it sold locally and usually at high mark up
> KZ ZAS already sold in my local market since we do have KZ official brand store, but so far nope for Geek Wold GK10.
> 
> Hows ZAS compared to recent darling, Aria?


Yes, It’s premature to give a rating for ZAS but my current provisional score is 74/100(B), GK10 is 85/100 (A).

ZAS is better than stock Aria 72/100(B-), but it’s behind modded Aria 81/100(A-). But it’s Hybrid vs Single DD, so the preference could come over those ratings.

Aria IMP has one of the best single DD timbre, great speed x great energy. Single DDs still suffer instrumental separation technicalities burden though.


----------



## r31ya (Aug 7, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yes, It’s premature to give a rating for ZAS but my current provisional score is 74/100(B), GK10 is 85/100 (A).
> 
> ZAS is better than stock Aria 72/100(B-), but it’s behind modded Aria 81/100(A-). But it’s Hybrid vs Single DD, so the preference could come over those ratings.
> 
> Aria IMP has one of the best single DD timbre, great speed x great energy. Single DDs still suffer instrumental separation technicalities burden though.


Hows the vocal of ZAS compared to Aria?

---

For someone who often thought about and love hunting for Hybrid system thanks to KZ, i just realize my current sets is all single DD (ATH-e40, TFZ KingPro, Tanchjim Tanya)
My last Hybrid is KZ DQ6 which i gave to my brother in law... huh.

Due to some irl thing i've been holding back buying Aria or something in Aria budget, but that have passed so i wanna buy one. I've been rooting for the next great KZ/CCA~!
But most of it have a bit mixed review (KZ ZAX, AST) or pretty good review (CCA CA16, CCA CKX) but overshadowed with things like TinAudio T2 Plus, Moondrop Aria and now Geek Wold GK10.

KZ ZAS is something that is basically my dream KZ, a KZ ZS10 Pro with the new Xun DD and Black BAs, hoping for some bass texture and fuller vocal. so i've been wishing it to be great.


----------



## Nimweth

AmericanSpirit said:


> KZ started to care for tuning, after my history of following KZ since 2016, they started to care for tuning from late 2020 if your memory is from pre-2020, your impression might be right, I had the same impression. But asking KZ tuning skills for GK10....hmmm that's a tough call.
> 
> My history of KZ/CCA
> -ZST Pro
> ...


You have quite a few I have not heard, here is my list:
ED3 Acme
ED3 Perfection
HDS1
HDS3
ED9
ZST
ES3
ZSN Pro
ZS4
ZS10
ZS10 Pro
ZS7
ZSX
ZAX
BA10
C10
C10 Pro
C16
CA4
CST
CSN
CA2
C12
CKX
CA16
CS16
A10
My top five from these are: BA10, CKX, ZS7, CA16 and CSN.


----------



## Nimweth

r31ya said:


> Hows the vocal of ZAS compared to Aria?
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


I think the DQ6 is a triple DD rather than a hybrid....


----------



## r31ya

Nimweth said:


> I think the DQ6 is a triple DD rather than a hybrid....


Should've said multi drivers.


----------



## Nimweth

r31ya said:


> Should've said multi drivers.


Yes, of course.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

IMO KZ is at they're best under $50. Over that price point, certainly the units are better than cheaper KZ, but I highly doubt that they are better than similarly priced or moderately higher priced alternatives. I'm considering this new CCA unit an insta-buy for the hell of it, but I'm not at all sold on CCA CKX, KZ ZAS, any of the CCA 16 variants, or KZ AS* models. DQ6 is probably the best in KZs lineup right now, which is a total burn because they've built their reputation on proprietary BA tech. 

I talked myself out of the ASF after seeing those miserable charts again. Charts aren't everything, but the AS series are summarily reviewed as dark, which just ain't my cup o' tea and there is no shortage of other IEMs to try. This is a hobby not an exact science, so people that trust their own ears and are enjoying their modded cans are all that really matters. Rock on my dudes, I feel you.

For my own listening preferences and catalog, the ZAX is not really an upgrade for me over the C12, which someone here, trying to be helpful, said was a straight upgrade. My ears respectfully disagree. Certainly the ZAX is both revealing and a bit polite at the same time, but it's just not as capable on the upper end as the C12. For me that's not an upgrade it's just another enjoyable choice. My hunch is that the ZSX was the last of the great, sharp KZ house sound that made them famous so I have one of those on order before they start getting hard to find.

Now hype train is rolling for the ZAS



AmericanSpirit said:


> -it will be a straight upgrade from ZAX



I _really, really_ doubt that. KZ keep tweaking their house sound, prettying up the shells to look more consistent with the less sophisticated TWS units which are selling in quantity, and trying to unload the zillions of BA stock they've got on their balance sheet.  I love KZ as a brand, but let's at least be honest with our obsessive compulsive AliExpress disorder, shall we?   

Reality is that KZ have a lot of work to do if they want to stay competitive in the higher price categories that they tried unsuccessfully to break into over the past year. I'm marveling at the list of other brands that are recently and favorably reviewed, most of which y'all already have, and I have little to no interest in spending money on.  Here's a fraction of the list:

BQEYZ Summer and the Spring2  (piezo)
Geek Wold GK10 (piezo)
BGVP DMG (2DD + 4BA)
Tri Starsea (1DD+2BA) 
Kinera Idun (1DD+2BA)
Thieaudio Voyager 3 (this 3BA looks like a better buy than AST, even at 25 euro more)

With Blon BL03's success, there's a veritable bumper crop of single DD coming out:

HZSound Heart Mirror
Whizzer HE01
Moondrop Aria/Starfield
FiiO FD3/Pro  (recent offering; not any reviews yet really)
(sure I'm missing a lot of others)


And then other non chifi brands coming to market with lower cost products here:

Final Audio A4000 (1DD - this looks like a fantastic every day pair of ears tbh)
Campfire Honeydew (1DD iirc - the DQ6 graph comparison is hilarious) 
Sennheiser IE100 Pro (<-- looks like _actual_ no BS, low cost monitors which for me is very tempting)

Of the above IEM list, I'm probably most tempted right now by the Spring2 and the Whizzer.  I can't believe how many choices there actually are, frankly, or how they manage to stay in business. There is a new chifi brand that is dumping all permutations of DD/BA hybrids at once and they are on my strictly-avoid list. My guess is that they're using the audio enthusiast community to do their tuning homework for them, or they are just clearing out overstock they got on the cheap, or both.

My wish for KZ is to get closer to moondrop's level of focus on engineering a better final product. If they want us to spend over $50, over $100 then we need a better effort than what went into the ZAS and the AST. </saturday ramble>


----------



## AmericanSpirit

r31ya said:


> Hows the vocal of ZAS compared to Aria?
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


I was listening to ZAS for well over 10 hours yesterday, ZAS is made for vocals.

Not as super midrange rich as Mangird Tea,  which uses quad-sonion mid BA, but it comes very rich and satisfactory for both male and female vocals. ZAS is exceptionally good at articulating vocal harmony, the unison of voices are nicely layered and very easy to pick the other phases of the harmonics. The tonality is also natural, thanks to 50024s x 6 handling wide range from bass to treble, and new acoustic chamber KZ applied to ZAS,




they sing in unison, like DD.

Aria’s vocal does have very rich overtones and one of the smoothest transient, but when it comes to articulating those vocal
Harmonic phases, it’s still a single BA, images are well presented but sticking together, it’s natural though.

I personally like vocals on ZAS than Aria.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 7, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> IMO KZ is at they're best under $50. Over that price point, certainly the units are better than cheaper KZ, but I highly doubt that they are better than similarly priced or moderately higher priced alternatives. I'm considering this new CCA unit an insta-buy for the hell of it, but I'm not at all sold on CCA CKX, KZ ZAS, any of the CCA 16 variants, or KZ AS* models. DQ6 is probably the best in KZs lineup right now, which is a total burn because they've built their reputation on proprietary BA tech.
> 
> I talked myself out of the ASF after seeing those miserable charts again. Charts aren't everything, but the AS series are summarily reviewed as dark, which just ain't my cup o' tea and there is no shortage of other IEMs to try. This is a hobby not an exact science, so people that trust their own ears and are enjoying their modded cans are all that really matters. Rock on my dudes, I feel you.
> 
> ...



Well said! Agreed fully.

In recent years, KZ has been using customers as beta tester guinea pigs, in releasing pokemon IEMs every few weeks, that are mostly sidegrades, or at best marginal upgrades. A "pro" version comes out a few months after the first adopters get their sets, sometimes by the time an Aliexpress order comes, that IEM may already be superceded by a "pro" version. Perhaps now and then, KZ does hit gold and get some good models out, but by and large it really looks like a business model of throwing as much stuff on the wall and finally hoping something sticks.

KZ was my entry IEM into CHIFI and I'm eternally grateful for that, KZ may still be kings at sub $50 USD, but beyond that price bracket, there's really tough competition. Folks purchasing at the $100ish region are fussier about the sound and less forgiving, there's well established bigboys at those price brackets. So it is not just a massive driver count that entices folks at this price.

I really do hope this KZ EST (or magnetostat/electret) model does well, but a lot of CHIFI nowadays are namedropping EST drivers and beryllium drivers and whatnot as a marketing gimmick. It might be wise to wait for first adopter reviews first, been burnt a few times already.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Nimweth said:


> You have quite a few I have not heard, here is my list:
> ED3 Acme
> ED3 Perfection
> HDS1
> ...


I can see those fav’d ones are nicely tuned one! You probably would love ZAS too


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> IMO KZ is at they're best under $50. Over that price point, certainly the units are better than cheaper KZ, but I highly doubt that they are better than similarly priced or moderately higher priced alternatives. I'm considering this new CCA unit an insta-buy for the hell of it, but I'm not at all sold on CCA CKX, KZ ZAS, any of the CCA 16 variants, or KZ AS* models. DQ6 is probably the best in KZs lineup right now, which is a total burn because they've built their reputation on proprietary BA tech.
> 
> I talked myself out of the ASF after seeing those miserable charts again. Charts aren't everything, but the AS series are summarily reviewed as dark, which just ain't my cup o' tea and there is no shortage of other IEMs to try. This is a hobby not an exact science, so people that trust their own ears and are enjoying their modded cans are all that really matters. Rock on my dudes, I feel you.
> 
> ...


For sub $150, yea KZ still lacks fundamental guts. Many of those uses Knowles/Sonion which is a tough call for KZ to beat at this time. Starsea /GK10 could hit A-grade, but KZ hasn’t reaches to A-grade yet(AST / ZAS) is closer but still need 2 steps(B to B+,then breaking the barrier of A) ahead to reach A.

 GK10! It’s in KZ’s fighting ground, and still making a A grade IEM, with small shops. It’s a paradigm shift happening right now.

by the they single DDs have certain limit, although I value modded Aria as A- due to LCP driver, other ones you mentioned are mainly sourced from probably same plant making CNT / DLC, whatever tuning they got it probably will stay in B-grade.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> Well said! Agreed fully.
> 
> In recent years, KZ has been using customers as beta tester guinea pigs, in releasing pokemon IEMs every few weeks, that are mostly sidegrades, or at best marginal upgrades. A "pro" version comes out a few months after the first adopters get their sets, sometimes by the time an Aliexpress order comes, that IEM may already be superceded by a "pro" version. Perhaps now and then, KZ does hit gold and get some good models out, but by and large it really looks like a business model of throwing as much stuff on the wall and finally hoping something sticks.
> 
> ...


Their throwing on the wall is aiming right direction from late 2020, now KZ probably need to establish a bridge to that target area, like Moondrop did, a house sound, core essence of tuning. KZ had KZ V house sound (dry and extreme V) but it’s getting old, chifi-V isn’t something new and audiences are getting tired of KZ V.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> IMO KZ is at they're best under $50. Over that price point, certainly the units are better than cheaper KZ, but I highly doubt that they are better than similarly priced or moderately higher priced alternatives. I'm considering this new CCA unit an insta-buy for the hell of it, but I'm not at all sold on CCA CKX, KZ ZAS, any of the CCA 16 variants, or KZ AS* models. DQ6 is probably the best in KZs lineup right now, which is a total burn because they've built their reputation on proprietary BA tech.
> 
> I talked myself out of the ASF after seeing those miserable charts again. Charts aren't everything, but the AS series are summarily reviewed as dark, which just ain't my cup o' tea and there is no shortage of other IEMs to try. This is a hobby not an exact science, so people that trust their own ears and are enjoying their modded cans are all that really matters. Rock on my dudes, I feel you.
> 
> ...


The law of diminishing returns applies even to KZ 

Starting from good single DDs under $10, and simple hybrids at ~$15 -  there are a lot of nice ChiFi IEMs to fully enjoy your music.

Then it is hard to disagree -that DQ6 are still very special at ~$25, and are one of the best bang for the buck.

C12 were always special to me, the most vivid treble of KZ hybrids prior to KZ moving towards more gentle with AST being most un-KZ 

ZSX just offered  a better fit to me and tighter bass.

Then I very much prefer BAs to DDs, so ZAX/CA16 is my last hybrid pair - very complimentary, and ZAS are not seducing.

AS* series is really the best that happened in IEMs for me. I have all (minus ASF) starting from AS10 that was a great wow(!) to me , and now modified ASXs.

If AST are condidered to be a  bass head pair, then my ASX are bass monsters  but then the treble and mids are also very rich in ASX so they are the most intense IEM for me that others (AST, TRI I3, Aria, VG4,  etc) have hard time to compete for the air time.

I did take some time, money snd efforts to compare different BAs - Sonion, Knowles.
Other than special implementation of ED29689 - KZ wins for me.

As for the beta-testers, for the price - I am all in for supporting KZ. I will buy 2-3 next all-BA iterations - no questions asked 

P. S. Enjoying your music is all that is important, I know that definitely spend too much time thinking about different IEMs.

My daughter asked for airpods for a long time, finally caving in for her wishes (she managed to kill two Sony XB50s)  - I thought that Airpods pro would make most sense.
Then she is happily enjoying her "pop" music from Spotify mostly with one piece , and she has all the musical training, playing three different instruments at the concert level.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> IMO KZ is at they're best under $50. Over that price point, certainly the units are better than cheaper KZ, but I highly doubt that they are better than similarly priced or moderately higher priced alternatives. I'm considering this new CCA unit an insta-buy for the hell of it, but I'm not at all sold on CCA CKX, KZ ZAS, any of the CCA 16 variants, or KZ AS* models. DQ6 is probably the best in KZs lineup right now, which is a total burn because they've built their reputation on proprietary BA tech.
> 
> I talked myself out of the ASF after seeing those miserable charts again. Charts aren't everything, but the AS series are summarily reviewed as dark, which just ain't my cup o' tea and there is no shortage of other IEMs to try. This is a hobby not an exact science, so people that trust their own ears and are enjoying their modded cans are all that really matters. Rock on my dudes, I feel you.
> 
> ...


Feel that what KZ's major drawback is that competition has certainly managed to match them and in some cases, leapfrog them when it comes to the overall product including sound.

KZ V sound is good for $10 but the same sound for $60? I'd be skeptical and would definitely avoid them considering there's nothing much different from what you get for $10-15, as @PhonoPhi mentioned, the law of diminishing returns hits KZ much earlier than their competition. I love KZ and I still rate their cheaper offerings like ZSN, ED9, & EDX as probably the best this uber cheap segment has to offer. With DQ6 it seems they've managed to hit that $25-30 sweet spot which the new consumers coming from a ZSN/ZST would definitely go gaga over. But, can the same be said about them at $50? Probably, no. There they have much stiffer competition from Moondrop, Tin Hifi, HZSOUND etc. who offer a much mature tuning coupled with a better overall product. And, stuffing million drivers into an IEM doesn't mean that it's better. I really want KZ to tweak Harman curve to something which resonates with their ideology. Like how Tin Hifi pivoted themselves with T2 Plus. It shows that the brand is willing to learn and adapt to compete with higher-end offerings. With their mass production and manufacturing capabilities, they have all tools to give IEMs upto $150-200 a run for their money. If they wish, they have the muscle to give brands like Fiio a run for their money in that price segment.

I hope KZ too learns and matures with time and does something for fans outside of China.


----------



## RikudouGoku

You guys that are following KZ/CCA closely, have any ideas on how long it usually takes for them to announce an iem and then release it?

https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1423548288591138820
That one is quite tempting.


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> You guys that are following KZ/CCA closely, have any ideas on how long it usually takes for them to announce an iem and then release it?
> 
> https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1423548288591138820
> That one is quite tempting.



It's never long and under a month from what I have seen.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> You guys that are following KZ/CCA closely, have any ideas on how long it usually takes for them to announce an iem and then release it?
> 
> https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1423548288591138820
> That one is quite tempting.


Yea I’m up for the early birds👍


----------



## InvisibleInk

RikudouGoku said:


> You guys that are following KZ/CCA closely, have any ideas on how long it usually takes for them to announce an iem and then release it?
> 
> https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1423548288591138820
> That one is quite tempting.


Some of us here have been clamoring for just such an innovation from them. 👍


----------



## RikudouGoku

InvisibleInk said:


> Some of us here have been clamoring for just such an innovation from them. 👍


Yeah, I definitely remember seeing people wanting KZ to try some other drivers instead of only DD/BAs.


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, I definitely remember seeing people wanting KZ to try some other drivers instead of only DD/BAs.



Imagine planar and EST from them lol
Bellsing EST


----------



## RikudouGoku

TheVortex said:


> Imagine planar and EST from them lol
> Bellsing EST


Probably not a good idea to get the first gen of those if that will ever happen though. Better to be their beta testers rather than the alpha testers.


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably not a good idea to get the first gen of those if that will ever happen though. Better to be their beta testers rather than the alpha testers.



I agree to that lol. There will be many Alpha testers whenever that happens.


----------



## InvisibleInk

RikudouGoku said:


> Probably not a good idea to get the first gen of those if that will ever happen though. Better to be their beta testers rather than the alpha testers.


Unless the price is $20.00. USD!


----------



## RikudouGoku

InvisibleInk said:


> Unless the price is $20.00. USD!


Yeah, I will be an alpha tester for that magnetostat iem, unless the graph just looks like garbage...


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, I will be an alpha tester for that magnetostat iem, unless the graph just looks like garbage...


Graph will have holy trinity of Everest, K2 and Kanchenjunga. Be rest assured.


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, I will be an alpha tester for that magnetostat iem, unless the graph just looks like garbage...



Thanks for taking one for the team!

Anyway rule number one in this hobby: "Never trust store provided graphs".
They can stretch it until it looks neutralish and hides peaks and troughs. Or they can look like a toddler's doodles.


----------



## r31ya

AmericanSpirit said:


> I was listening to ZAS for well over 10 hours yesterday, ZAS is made for vocals.
> 
> Not as super midrange rich as Mangird Tea,  which uses quad-sonion mid BA, but it comes very rich and satisfactory for both male and female vocals. ZAS is exceptionally good at articulating vocal harmony, the unison of voices are nicely layered and very easy to pick the other phases of the harmonics. The tonality is also natural, thanks to 50024s x 6 handling wide range from bass to treble, and new acoustic chamber KZ applied to ZAS,
> 
> ...


Oooh that's a high praise.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Hello my fellow HeadFi users, I just registered myself here to tell about the EQ preset I made.
My preset clears out the harshness and distortion in the KZ AST and gives it a neutral + bass-boosted sound signature.

This should be used with a parametric EQ.


40Hz -3.5dB Q0.40
230Hz 0dB Q0.90
750Hz +4.0dB Q0.50
1900Hz -4.0dB Q1.10
3400Hz 6.0dB Q1.70
5200Hz -8.0dB Q2.00
7500Hz +3.0dB Q1.50
11000Hz +3.0dB Q1.50

The AST has enormously detailed treble now. It has been quite shocking to me. I have never heard audio hardware this detailed. These EQ settings can easily bump the AST to S-Grade performance.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

TheVortex said:


> Imagine planar and EST from them lol
> Bellsing EST


I want to see driver madness of EST+BA+Planer+DD😂


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 8, 2021)

ExTubeGamer said:


> Hello my fellow HeadFi users, I just registered myself here to tell about the EQ preset I made.
> My preset clears out the harshness and distortion in the KZ AST and gives it a neutral + bass-boosted sound signature.
> 
> This should be used with a parametric EQ.
> ...


Yes AST got like 70% of what S-grade multi BA IEM like qdc Anole VX could offer, but it needs EQing. 50024s is KZ’s new gem, they work very good from my experience of 50024sx6 handling treble for AST, and 50024s x6 handling mid-upper mid for ZAS. Either frequencies 50024s handles very nice! The open air vent makes the traditional “KZ style harsh BA timbre” a thing of the past.


----------



## myromeo

Question, what would you consider an upgrade to the ZS10 Pro at the moment? Love the fun V sound but would like a little more mid detail and better soundstage. Source is NW-A105 and Topping NX1S modified amp


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 8, 2021)

myromeo said:


> Question, what would you consider an upgrade to the ZS10 Pro at the moment? Love the fun V sound but would like a little more mid detail and better soundstage. Source is NW-A105 and Topping NX1S modified amp


ZAS still got V-shape tuning not as vivid as ZS10 Pro, but the mid detail is what I could tell ZAS has to offer.

If you like same sounding V, ZAX will do the job, but ZAS got XUN driver which is an upgrade from what ZAX got too.

I have couple of Sony’s NW series DAPa, it generally have properly amped output, so drivimg ZAS wouldn’t be a problem. And topping amps shall do the job too.

I’d get TRI Starsea for pure upgrade though, it’s an affordable A-Grade IEM with usually goes $120, and on sale $106.


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> I want to see driver madness of EST+BA+Planer+DD😂


I would certainly be intrigued, but unless they're actually going to make their own electret driver, then you'd end up with a bit of redundancy, since the magnetostatic drivers are pretty similar to the planar magnetic drivers. I'd be curious to see how they might actually approach this.


----------



## TheVortex

AmericanSpirit said:


> I want to see driver madness of EST+BA+Planer+DD😂



Me to, more crazy the better haha


----------



## AmericanSpirit

mndless said:


> I would certainly be intrigued, but unless they're actually going to make their own electret driver, then you'd end up with a bit of redundancy, since the magnetostatic drivers are pretty similar to the planar magnetic drivers. I'd be curious to see how they might actually approach this.


I’m gonna be reviewing an undisclosed BA+Planer+DD sometime next month, so it will be a nice comparison to CCA’s new IEM or any new KZ IEM too!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

TheVortex said:


> Me to, more crazy the better haha


Yea the larger the company become, the more stable and conservative products they have to offer, especially for those went public market…KZ still got those little shop madness in the essence😂 That’s why I still love KZ despite many hit/miss experiences.


----------



## TheVortex

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea the larger the company become, the more stable and conservative products they have to offer, especially for those went public market…KZ still got those little shop madness in the essence😂 That’s why I still love KZ despite many hit/miss experiences.



Indeed and looking forward to that undisclosed model.


----------



## PhonoPhi

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yes AST got like 70% of what S-grade multi BA IEM like qdc Anole VX could offer, but it needs EQing. 50024s is KZ’s new gem, they work very good from my experience of 50024sx6 handling treble for AST, and 50024s x6 handling mid-upper mid for ZAS. Either frequencies 50024s handles very nice! The open air vent makes the traditional “KZ style harsh BA timbre” a thing of the past.


My perception is that this great array of 50024 is centered at upper mids in AST, and then AST sound output is gentle after 5k with only one 30095 behind a tiny soundtube


----------



## AmericanSpirit

PhonoPhi said:


> My perception is that this great array of 50024 is centered at upper mids in AST, and then AST sound output is gentle after 5k with only one 30095 behind a tiny soundtube


it sounds like 50024s is rendering 3khz-9khz, and 9khz and up is from 30095
It’s 50024s array is a good idea, 30095 used to be used as treble tweeter of KZ, and it was a bit too dry and harsh.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yes AST got like 70% of what S-grade multi BA IEM like qdc Anole VX could offer, but it needs EQing. 50024s is KZ’s new gem, they work very good from my experience of 50024sx6 handling treble for AST, and 50024s x6 handling mid-upper mid for ZAS. Either frequencies 50024s handles very nice! The open air vent makes the traditional “KZ style harsh BA timbre” a thing of the past.


I think AST is quite source dependent and requires a more resolving source. Are you feedig it with the M11 Pro?


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 8, 2021)

saldsald said:


> I think AST is quite source dependent and requires a more resolving source. Are you feedig it with the M11 Pro?


It is source dependent too…forgot that part. I tried AST on PC dongle it sounded pitch dark…reminded me of darkness of Openheart Resin (F-grade)

On HM801 and M11Pro’s line out, it sounded fine. But when AST is going through amps, the bass bleed becomes too dominant.

AST is not an universally recommendable IEM like blessing2, very source/tuning picky


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> It is source dependent too…forgot that part. I tried AST on PC dongle it sounded pitch dark…
> 
> On HM801 and M11Pro’s line out, it sounded fine. But when AST is going through amps, the bass bleed becomes too dominant.
> 
> AST is not an universally recommendable IEM like blessing2, very source/tuning picky


Yea I totally agree it is so source picky and it sounds wonderful with my Shanling M8. The bass is super clear but not overwhelming especially for bass guitar it sounds very realistic even the floor reflection sound is reproduced. And no EQ is required for detailed treble.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 8, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Yea I totally agree it is so source picky and it sounds wonderful with my Shanling M8. The bass is super clear but not overwhelming especially for bass guitar it sounds very realistic even the floor reflection sound is reproduced. And no EQ is required for detailed treble.


It seems source picky views are very frequently appearing. I saw a Japanese reviewer mentioned same too.  He also used M8.

The spec of AST is pretty good. I still had to question KZ engineering team  “are you guys thinking all of potentials buyers of AST are using high-end DAPs?”

But maybe it could run well from L&P W2 too, I heard someone value it over M11Pro being $299 DAC.(nvm I found an amazon stock it has overnight shipping, just ordered and I will confirm)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

I'm using KZ BA10 with TRN BT20 for some 15 odd hours now, and I think it's the most perfect source for it. BA10 sounds very much like earlier KZ DDs yet has all the attributes of a BA. At $80, I'd definitely not buy them but for $45, they're immediate winners and probably my favourite KZ as well. They have dethroned ZSN from it's perch. Only drawback I notice is that steely treble that plagued them in 2017-18. Just for that crazy bass, I've add them to my workout collection. Arguably the best bass in it's current price range. Maybe the XUN is better, I'll learn once I get DQ6 in near future.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> The spec of AST is pretty good. I still had to question KZ engineering team  “are you guys thinking all of potentials buyers of AST are using high-end DAPs?”


Yea I think the same but I think it is ok since they already have some easy to drive IEMs.


AmericanSpirit said:


> But maybe it could run well from L&P W2 too, I heard someone value it over M11Pro being $299 DAC.(nvm I found an amazon stock it has overnight shipping, just ordered and I will confirm)


I doubt that to be honest. Just IMO the dense note weight really needs a highly resolving source and the 43198 is too 'warm' for that.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I'm using KZ BA10 with TRN BT20 for some 15 odd hours now, and I think it's the most perfect source for it. BA10 sounds very much like earlier KZ DDs yet has all the attributes of a BA. At $80, I'd definitely not buy them but for $45, they're immediate winners and probably my favourite KZ as well. They have dethroned ZSN from it's perch. Only drawback I notice is that steely treble that plagued them in 2017-18. Just for that crazy bass, I've add them to my workout collection. Arguably the best bass in it's current price range. Maybe the XUN is better, I'll learn once I get DQ6 in near future.



How do you find the shells? Do they hurt your ears at all?  I've been looking at all these new new IEM without considering the older offerings. Both the BA10 and AS10 actually look like a good fit for what I like FR wise. 

re: bass on newer DDs - I don't hear a terrible amount of difference between the "double magnet" driver in the ZAX vs the XUN driver in the DQ6. The bottom end of fast metal and orchestral works sound a touch "fuller" to me on the ZAX, but that could be the lower mids of the BAs that I hear. I've ready many others that describe the XUN "faster" or "tighter", which I don't quite agree with; I think there is simply less bass and subbass in DQ6 w/o EQ. Speaking as somebody that's spent many decades listening to pop and rock on studio monitors, the DQ6 is a welcome relief from the  reference profile. And at the price they are a perfect set of on-the-go beaters. Get 'em - it's a sure thing. 



PhonoPhi said:


> My perception is that this great array of 50024 is centered at upper mids in AST, and then AST sound output is gentle after 5k with only one 30095 behind a tiny soundtube



wow - ok that explains a lot, then. Sounds like they tried to stretch the super-array up to cover treble and it didn't quite work. Even BA10 and AS10 have x2 30095 drivers, and the AS16 sports a _total of four_ 30095's. Western audiences didn't like this set, but I figure it's probably very close to having a reference curve like AKG K240 or K702.   

I'm not particularly fond of that curve myself. I sold my K702s without hardly any time spent with them. These are the most overrated cans in all of hi-fi IMO, so I don't blame anybody for not liking either CS16 or AS16. I love hot treble as much as my tinnitus will support, but I can't stand nor forgive phones with no bottom end. At least AST can remain as a cult classic for bass heads.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> Yea I think the same but I think it is ok since they already have some easy to drive IEMs.
> 
> I doubt that to be honest. Just IMO the dense note weight really needs a highly resolving source and the 43198 is too 'warm' for that.


Haha yea, I ordered from Amazon so it’s an easy 1-click return If I didn’t like it 😄


----------



## ExTubeGamer

AmericanSpirit said:


> It is source dependent too…forgot that part. I tried AST on PC dongle it sounded pitch dark…reminded me of darkness of Openheart Resin (F-grade)
> 
> On HM801 and M11Pro’s line out, it sounded fine. But when AST is going through amps, the bass bleed becomes too dominant.
> 
> AST is not an universally recommendable IEM like blessing2, very source/tuning picky


So far I have used my AST on a Btr3k and a Xduoo Mt-602 Amp. The Mt-602 makes the bass sound really full and warm while the Btr3k keeps it neutral.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

ExTubeGamer said:


> So far I have used my AST on a Btr3k and a Xduoo Mt-602 Amp. The Mt-602 makes the bass sound really full and warm while the Btr3k keeps it neutral.


Yea both BTR3K, BRR5 got pretty neutral tuning, I like the neutrality over M11Pro’s amped mode, the line-out mode sounds very neutral, so either BTR5 or Line-out is my choice when listening to AST👍


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

AmericanSpirit said:


> it sounds like 50024s is rendering 3khz-9khz, and 9khz and up is from 30095
> It’s 50024s array is a good idea, 30095 used to be used as treble tweeter of KZ, and it was a bit too dry and harsh.



AST curiosity is killing me here ... but that tri i3 pro is gonna drop any minute ... and I need to get the Mrs. some of those pretty QoA's so she'll give me back my ZAX


----------



## ExTubeGamer

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> AST curiosity is killing me here ... but that tri i3 pro is gonna drop any minute ... and I need to get the Mrs. some of those pretty QoA's so she'll give me back my ZAX


Get the AST if layering and details is priority, you can eq them and you got a good source.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> How do you find the shells? Do they hurt your ears at all?  I've been looking at all these new new IEM without considering the older offerings. Both the BA10 and AS10 actually look like a good fit for what I like FR wise.


Shells are different but they don't hurt me. I think the discomfort will be for those who have ears on the smaller side. It took me sometime to get used to them but now I find them comfortable.


SpaceOperaVillain said:


> re: bass on newer DDs - I don't hear a terrible amount of difference between the "double magnet" driver in the ZAX vs the XUN driver in the DQ6. The bottom end of fast metal and orchestral works sound a touch "fuller" to me on the ZAX, but that could be the lower mids of the BAs that I hear. I've ready many others that describe the XUN "faster" or "tighter", which I don't quite agree with; I think there is simply less bass and subbass in DQ6 w/o EQ. Speaking as somebody that's spent many decades listening to pop and rock on studio monitors, the DQ6 is a welcome relief from the  reference profile. And at the price they are a perfect set of on-the-go beaters. Get 'em - it's a sure thing.


Wow. I'll surely get them in a couple of months as I'm currently expecting two more IEMs in addition two new ones I recently acquired. So my ears are pretty much full at the moment🤣


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 8, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Wow. I'll surely get them in a couple of months as I'm currently expecting two more IEMs in addition two new ones I recently acquired. So my ears are pretty much full at the moment🤣



Since coming back into sound gear now as my primary work distraction, and getting a few new pair of IEM every couple weeks, its put me back into old habits of listening to new music again. There's so much coming out right now, too - it's insane. My schedule has really suffered in ways I really can't afford for it to  ... but I will have more pairs coming soon.  haha   

EDIT... speaking of,  I landed on the below for the Mrs to reclaim my ZAX, which I begin to miss very much ... 

- QOA Vesper for the Mrs. Reviewed as a warm colored set from elevated subbass, slightly mids forward, relaxed treble. She spends a lot of her IEM time watching netflix so this looks like a good choice.  

Now here is the dilemma: 

basket a)

-  AS10  - so these are only 35 euro and have enjoyed some rave reviews. A must-have KZ classic?  Hmm.  verryyy tempting. 

- Geek Wold GK10  - scratching the piezo itch for 43 euros? Summer is over 100 and probably not as good given the reviews I've seen for both. Darn this is tempting.  I think the crazy driver config would be lost on the Mrs but the shells look nice. 

both pairs ~ 80 euro. 

basket b) 

- AST, find out what the fuss is all about. 

112 euro. 

damn!


----------



## Mouseman

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Since coming back into sound gear now as my primary work distraction, and getting a few new pair of IEM every couple weeks, its put me back into old habits of listening to new music again. There's so much coming out right now, too - it's insane. My schedule has really suffered in ways I really can't afford for it to  ... but I will have more pairs coming soon.  haha
> 
> EDIT... speaking of,  I landed on the below for the Mrs to reclaim my ZAX, which I begin to miss very much ...
> 
> ...


I am a huge fan of ZAX and it used to be my favorite budget IEM, but the GK10s are better. Not even remotely  close in most aspects. I think ZAX might have more bass, but it's probably not fair to compare since I don't have enough time on the GK10s to loosen up the DDs.  Pick basket A, but you might not want to let her have them.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Since coming back into sound gear now as my primary work distraction, and getting a few new pair of IEM every couple weeks, its put me back into old habits of listening to new music again. There's so much coming out right now, too - it's insane. My schedule has really suffered in ways I really can't afford for it to  ... but I will have more pairs coming soon.  haha
> 
> EDIT... speaking of,  I landed on the below for the Mrs to reclaim my ZAX, which I begin to miss very much ...
> 
> ...


AS10 was good in 2018,2019 though, it’s safer tuned of KZ, but technicalities are those belongs to C-


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Haha yea, I ordered from Amazon so it’s an easy 1-click return If I didn’t like it 😄


Too bad the M8 is not available on amazon .


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Since coming back into sound gear now as my primary work distraction, and getting a few new pair of IEM every couple weeks, its put me back into old habits of listening to new music again. There's so much coming out right now, too - it's insane. My schedule has really suffered in ways I really can't afford for it to  ... but I will have more pairs coming soon.  haha
> 
> EDIT... speaking of,  I landed on the below for the Mrs to reclaim my ZAX, which I begin to miss very much ...
> 
> ...


Basket A. But I'd say replace AS10 with either BA10 or AS06. BA10 can be a hit or a miss wrt fit but everything else is still very competitive for $40. The aforementioned options are only applicable if you like fun sound. They're no way balanced or neutral. So please take them with a pinch of salt.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 9, 2021)

Yeah that's the thing ... When ordering from EU, BA10 is nearly $60, not $40 (20% VAT on everything 😤 ) 

Oh well!!!!  GK10 and BA10 ordered ...


----------



## RikudouGoku

That new magnetostat from CCA is actually a 1 DD + 1 magnetostat. Not 3 DD + 1 magnetostat.


----------



## Godflesh

If headphones require an equalizer, then these are bad headphones.


----------



## baskingshark

Godflesh said:


> If headphones require an equalizer, then these are bad headphones.



+1

Or for that matter, if they require some mods, eg removal/addition of filter/damper or foam/micropore mods, or perhaps aftermarket eartips (for fit/to change sound signature), then I would consider them being not that useful in stock form.

I guess at the budget segment, compromises will likely be there, and I'm okay to do some mods or aftermarket tips to improve the fit or tuning. But if a higher end earphone or flagship, requires such mods, then that's really disappointing.


----------



## Godflesh

baskingshark said:


> I guess at the budget segment, compromises will likely be there, and I'm okay to do some mods or aftermarket tips to improve the fit or tuning.


I mean, everything that bears the marking "high quality" must meet this requirement. Regardless of the price. Even expensive headphones from well-known brands do not always meet the stated requirements. By the way, this is an interesting topic with nozzles(mods). I was surprised myself when I tried different attachments.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Godflesh said:


> If headphones require an equalizer, then these are bad headphones.


Ideally they should sound great from the moment they're unboxed. All that pink, white and rainbow noise burn-in should be done before shipping.


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> AST curiosity is killing me here ... but that tri i3 pro is gonna drop any minute ... and I need to get the Mrs. some of those pretty QoA's so she'll give me back my ZAX


The CA24 is announced, maybe wait for that one.

https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1424570045905084425?s=20


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

My 80 euro cart ended up being 110 euro cart ($130 USD) for GK10 and BA10. I went for Star Wars colors (black and red) instead of Iron Man for the KZ  



Barusu Lamperouge said:


> They're no way balanced or neutral. So please take them with a pinch of salt



Indeed. I still have full size cans for clinical listening. I also have 4 adult children, 3 of which whom are still in uni so i gotta watch my chifi budget!



Godflesh said:


> If headphones require an equalizer, then these are bad headphones.



Oh man. I thought we grew past these kinds of blanket assertions!   

That particular flamewar pre-dates head-fi by decades. I remember this literally from old threads on Compuserve. I remember when this site was launched, and I recall some of the great flamewars about cables. My last post under a previous username here was in 2009.  We were all worried about bitrate support on iPod back then.  lol  incidentally, even by then I'd already had 10 yrs of listening on those grados in my sig. I've never been a big believer in super high end gear. Most musicians don't either, but that's another thread. 

All that to say: if somebody is on the side of the no EQ or no-tuning argument, good for them   It's the same for cables. Or speaker horns. Or treble peaks. At any rate, I'm a big fan of horns and treble peaks, and I've also been EQ'ing since my first JVC Amp/EQ head unit in my first car. 

For both headphones and IEM I have between 3 and 10EQ presets on my desktop for critical listening. I'm a low brass player in another life and had a big interest in car audio when I was young, and then was a regular on the club scene for alt rock and grunge years. I've been to a ton of loud, live shows in small venues. My ears are still full range, confirmed after medical tests, but I need some boost in certain frequencies to fully enjoy an earphone or to tune a set of bookshelf speakers to a room to my tastes. 

To that end, PulseEffects is quite good on Linux and has a lot of control that basic EQ does not, including the ability to shape each slider's frequency independently of the others and even the ability to mix algorithms. There's a stereo plugin that can add headroom on a boring set with just a small tweak, too. I use that trick on these AKG k52s mass produced 40mm and it sounds great. Tons of detail and has a very smooth treble extension imo. 

To sum up: my use of EQ is not infringing on anybody else's tubed Audeze session in their apartment smelling of mahogany. Trust your ears and experiment. Beware of blanket statements, wet or otherwise, and don't take life too seriously.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Godflesh said:


> If headphones require an equalizer, then these are bad headphones.


Given that many people equalize the HD800s that shines a bad light on the industry.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> The CA24 is announced, maybe wait for that one.
> 
> https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1424570045905084425?s=20



oh snaaap ... I guess pressure buildup wont be a problem on these. Hopefully those vents aren't just for show.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Ideally they should sound great from the moment they're unboxed. All that pink, white and rainbow noise burn-in should be done before shipping.


 
Agree with you - but as soon as they did that, the driver wouldn't be "new" anymore. There is a big cost barrier here, both in the support of the burn, monitring, and increased cost exposure to both higher RMA rates and higher defect rates prior to heading into inventory. The unit economics makes it pretty unlikely outside of boutique brands that are already packing hefty margins.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

baskingshark said:


> I guess at the budget segment, compromises will likely be there, and I'm okay to do some mods or aftermarket tips to improve the fit or tuning. But if a higher end earphone or flagship, requires such mods, then that's really disappointing.


 
Our ears and brains are still far better processors and judges of ultimate SQ than test equipment. 

There are two basic buckets of loudspeaker failure - one is the bigly fail related to overall frequency response:   missing mids, treble ice picks, absent treble, blooming or overemphasized bass, or no bass (hey - there's always that one Metallica record, "And Justice for All"!) .  The other is more nuanced and difficult to test for, and includes all the superlatives and weasel words that hifi industry thrives on:  coherence, presence, soundstage / imaging, "fluidity", bass congestion, etc. etc. 

Avoiding failure for both your anatomy and preference for sound catalog across both buckets is, ultimately, very, very slim, which is why there are nearly as many hi-fi brands as there are enthusiasts. When KZ blows it they make the bigly mistakes, which feels less forgivable because those are the most preventable issues.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> The CA24 is announced, maybe wait for that one.
> 
> https://twitter.com/StoreCca/status/1424570045905084425?s=20


Interesting, If CCA could make CA24 a mid-monster, I’m in!


----------



## baskingshark

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Our ears and brains are still far better processors and judges of ultimate SQ than test equipment.
> 
> There are two basic buckets of loudspeaker failure - one is the bigly fail related to overall frequency response:   missing mids, treble ice picks, absent treble, blooming or overemphasized bass, or no bass (hey - there's always that one Metallica record, "And Justice for All"!) .  The other is more nuanced and difficult to test for, and includes all the superlatives and weasel words that hifi industry thrives on:  coherence, presence, soundstage / imaging, "fluidity", bass congestion, etc. etc.
> 
> Avoiding failure for both your anatomy and preference for sound catalog across both buckets is, ultimately, very, very slim, which is why there are nearly as many hi-fi brands as there are enthusiasts. When KZ blows it they make the bigly mistakes, which feels less forgivable because those are the most preventable issues.



Yep good points.

Speaking about EQ, it is a useful tool to finetune some IEMs to our personal preference. But my take is that if something needs massive EQ to salvage the tuning, that's a red flag.

EQ can fix some tonal issues but it cannot fix some things eg imaging, instrument separation, timbral accuracy. Some drivers also don't take EQ well and may distort with overly robust EQ.

Strangely, a lot of folks seem to like the Sony EX1000 a lot, but a few of my friends who have it complain about the 5 to 6 kHz massive peak on it, and most need EQ to tame this area. So it seems even higher end IEMs may require EQ to make it usable. But personally I would prefer not to have so many sets lying around that all need different EQ parameters.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Agree with you - but as soon as they did that, the driver wouldn't be "new" anymore. There is a big cost barrier here, both in the support of the burn, monitring, and increased cost exposure to both higher RMA rates and higher defect rates prior to heading into inventory. The unit economics makes it pretty unlikely outside of boutique brands that are already packing hefty margins.


Yeah but that also makes it unfair to the consumers who lose their precious return window because of the burn-in. Brands should consider genuine consumer pain points where they simply ask to burn-in earphones for ridiculous amount of hours like 200-300.


----------



## Godflesh (Aug 9, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> For both headphones and IEM I have between 3 and 10EQ presets on my desktop for critical listening.


So there are professional sound engineers for that. Their task is to do everything right as the musician wants. But, I understand you. From myself I will say one thing. With professional equipment, why do I have to adapt to the music (a poorly recorded material.)?
p.s.  Different views.


----------



## Godflesh

poor music quality and bad headphones are slightly different things. The topic is complex, with my knowledge of the language.


----------



## chinmie

the more adept someone (be it musicians, sound engineers, etc) with EQ, the more they would use it instinctively given the situation, as they would see EQ merely as a tool, not something that's taboo or sacred.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Yeah but that also makes it unfair to the consumers who lose their precious return window because of the burn-in. Brands should consider genuine consumer pain points where they simply ask to burn-in earphones for ridiculous amount of hours like 200-300.


whoa. that's a thing, now? If so I agree with you.  If mfr's want to advertise burn-in they should just accept that it changes the product significantly and do it. There's still a lot of burn-in naysayers, tho.  hmm.  200 hours of prep is a stupid long time of electricity and oversight to lose over an inexpensive consumer grade product.   

My C12's changed quite a bit through burn-in; predictably all on the bottom end. About 20hrs was all that was needed tho.  The ZAX seemed to respond less to burn in. I left 'em playing overnight on spotify for about a week. nothing serious or scientific


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> whoa. that's a thing, now? If so I agree with you.  If mfr's want to advertise burn-in they should just accept that it changes the product significantly and do it. There's still a lot of burn-in naysayers, tho.  hmm.  200 hours of prep is a stupid long time of electricity and oversight to lose over an inexpensive consumer grade product.
> 
> My C12's changed quite a bit through burn-in; predictably all on the bottom end. About 20hrs was all that was needed tho.  The ZAX seemed to respond less to burn in. I left 'em playing overnight on spotify for about a week. nothing serious or scientific


Yeah there are many brands who advise this. I'm not much of a believer in burn-in but I believe that our ears adjust over time to the earphones and we don't find things irritating. Maybe that's what brain burn-in is. Our brain is master of making everything magical so I let it do all the magic for me.😁


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Godflesh said:


> So there are professional sound engineers for that. Their task is to do everything right as the musician wants. But, I understand you. From myself I will say one thing. With professional equipment, why do I have to adapt to the music (a poorly recorded material.)?
> p.s.  Different views.



More like different habits. There are some legitimately good reasons to EQ, and some lame excuses. EQ shouldn't have to cover up for a bad pair, no arguments there. But even if it's not _obviously _colored or a bad phone, I will still EQ with the zeal of a trailer park meth mom knitting bonnets the night before Christmas. If you're looking for a relaxing end-of-the-day session and don't want to mess with EQ while sipping on a nice drink in your favorite chair, there's absolutely nothing wrong that. I'd argue that likely you're missing a lot of detail in some of your recordings, but not everybody wants to pick their music apart like I do. Listening to music for me is a lean forward and analytical experience, often at my desk or sitting on the couch with my laptop. I've already got the controls up ... why not FAAFO?

Old jazz and blues recordings prior to ~1960 are a good example where mids and ~3k often needs tamed just a bit or at least augmented with some upper bass boost.  A lot of classical music available today was recorded in the 60's and 70's and responds well to a tweak here or there to sound better. Take turns dropping the slider @ 8k and 12k to tame hiss if it's too bad. Much depends on the quality of treble extension on your monitor / earphones and impedance match between the source and playback device.. if one of those factors is less than ideal, there's no shame in busting out the EQ to tame it.

1968:  Daughter of the Regiment (Joan Sutherland and Pavarotti).  This is actually a pretty good recording and has been lovingly converted to digital. This album is really superb on the ZAX, with just a teensy tiny reduction of lower mids ~ 700 Hz, and a big'ish treble V boost from 12kHz - 17kHz to bring out clarity in the details. I do the same with the k52s, just with more slider. 



Aside from cases like those above to compensate in recordings, I have different profiles for different genres, which are _mostly _just different shapes of a gentle W or lopsided V, depending on instrumental vs. vocals, electric vs analog instruments etc. That's why I like the KZs I've chosen so far - they respond to EQ a lot like mid-pack studio monitors. I know that I like a bump @ 2.2kHz to really put some buzz on the guitar track in the Who's _Eminence Front_. My Shure's do this song really well with that same bump. Works the same on the KZs, too. Led Zep II - i won't listen to this album on good headphones. The distortion drives me crazy. Love the album, but it begs to be played on paper cone drivers. Or in a bar. On a jukebox. Like the rock deities intended. 

While working I usually have some kind of electronic music playing.  bass bump for a warm bottom end ... moderate middle W for the mids, and just a hint of sparkle ... not too much or it'll be distracting, but if that hi hat kicks in and sounds dull and lifeless then, well, it makes me want to throw things.   Otherwise this is set it and forget it.  

 

There's a new trend with piano music now to record right against the sound board to capture microdetail that isn't otherwise audible in lower quality gear. Not sure how I feel about it, but here's an example where I have to tone some of it down on the top end or it's too distracting when listening with my better phones. This is a good album for the DQ6 since it's not really a detail monster by any means and this is a beautiful and relaxing record otherwise. No EQ required here. DQ6 knocks it out of the park and still has great detail. 



Anyway, hopefully you get the idea why I EQ. There is no one, single pair of kilo buck or higher phones that's gonna do all that for me so I've never really tried beyond demos or spending a couple days with expensive stuff on loan. Gear is more like flavors of ice cream to me than a hierarchy.


----------



## r31ya

AmericanSpirit said:


> Interesting, If CCA could make CA24 a mid-monster, I’m in!


If this is a jacked up CCA CKX with more details, stage and air from that tiny vents, it'll pretty damn awesome.


----------



## InvisibleInk

r31ya said:


> If this is a jacked up CCA CKX with more details, stage and air from that tiny vents, it'll pretty damn awesome.


Yeah, that’s not what it’s going to be. This going to be a retuned CCA version of the AST.


----------



## mndless

InvisibleInk said:


> Yeah, that’s not what it’s going to be. This going to be a retuned CCA version of the AST.


That's not really a bad thing if they can get it tuned with a more even treble response. The AST has a shockingly large bass presence as it is, which can be challenging with BA bass, so if they can get the treble more balanced to it, then it should be wildly successful.


----------



## myromeo

AmericanSpirit said:


> ZAS still got V-shape tuning not as vivid as ZS10 Pro, but the mid detail is what I could tell ZAS has to offer.
> 
> If you like same sounding V, ZAX will do the job, but ZAS got XUN driver which is an upgrade from what ZAX got too.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate, the ZAX sound like they fit the bill so I might give them a go. I can’t find so much about the ZAS for comparison and the starsea I just can’t convince myself of.
I had been looking at the moondrop aria but worry the moondrop tuning vs kz tuning will be too much of a change.

anyone able to comment on the ZAS vs ZAX vs ZS10 Pro??


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I wasn't quite sold on the Starsea, either, but it was a close runner up. Reports that it was bass light even with the bass switch toggled on sealed a "no" for me. It's attractive and priced well I think, just maybe a bit more neutral for what I was looking for. 

I really enjoy the ZAX. If the ZAS drops in price I'll give em a go but am in no hurry to at their current price. CCA CKX is another hybrid to check out that comes highly recommended here. I'd choose it over the ZAS based on reccs offered to me here before. 

Aria and other single dynamic driver IEM aren't the same kind of animal as these high BA count hybrids. Fiio's new FD3 is probably the only one to get at this very instant. Hype is building on that unit.


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I wasn't quite sold on the Starsea, either, but it was a close runner up. Reports that it was bass light even with the bass switch toggled on sealed a "no" for me. It's attractive and priced well I think, just maybe a bit more neutral for what I was looking for.
> 
> I really enjoy the ZAX. If the ZAS drops in price I'll give em a go but am in no hurry to at their current price. CCA CKX is another hybrid to check out that comes highly recommended here. I'd choose it over the ZAS based on reccs offered to me here before.
> 
> Aria and other single dynamic driver IEM aren't the same kind of animal as these high BA count hybrids. Fiio's new FD3 is probably the only one to get at this very instant. Hype is building on that unit.


I'm hoping that the graphs for the upcoming TRI i3 Pro are a bit more balanced in the mid-treble region. It may just be an anomaly with trying to graph them, but it always graphs strangely. Apparently they have monstrous sub-bass and solid mid-bass, though, which is incredibly tempting to me. If they can sort out the treble while making them smaller, I'll probably consider them, as I was one of the people disappointed by the relatively light bass of the Starseas.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Interesting, If CCA could make CA24 a mid-monster, I’m in!


I guess will be more like a refined AST with more balanced tuning and better extension. However the bass will likely remain strong. BTW do you need another pair of IEM?


----------



## saldsald

r31ya said:


> If this is a jacked up CCA CKX with more details, stage and air from that tiny vents, it'll pretty damn awesome.


Don't think the vents will do anything, lol.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> I guess will be more like a refined AST with more balanced tuning and better extension. However the bass will likely remain strong. BTW do you need another pair of IEM?


Aaaa the bass!!!

Well I just got great neutral DAC, L&P W2, so I think it can handle the chaotic bass with CP360…


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I wasn't quite sold on the Starsea, either, but it was a close runner up. Reports that it was bass light even with the bass switch toggled on sealed a "no" for me. It's attractive and priced well I think, just maybe a bit more neutral for what I was looking for.
> 
> I really enjoy the ZAX. If the ZAS drops in price I'll give em a go but am in no hurry to at their current price. CCA CKX is another hybrid to check out that comes highly recommended here. I'd choose it over the ZAS based on reccs offered to me here before.
> 
> Aria and other single dynamic driver IEM aren't the same kind of animal as these high BA count hybrids. Fiio's new FD3 is probably the only one to get at this very instant. Hype is building on that unit.


ZAS will drop to $40-45 in the 11.11 sale with some coupons and store discounts.

I'm also really piqued by FD3 Pro. If the cable is expensive on it's own then I'll purchase the IEM for a better deal. It's fantastic from Fiio to give a modular cable at $149.


----------



## lushmelody

mndless said:


> That's not really a bad thing if they can get it tuned with a more even treble response. The AST has a shockingly large bass presence as it is, which can be challenging with BA bass, so if they can get the treble more balanced to it, then it should be wildly successful.


the bass is too much though, a few db less would be perfect (midrange suffers a little in stock tuning)

if they fix the weird dips in FR is enough to correct the too soft cymbals still preserving the smooth tuning

i'll pass that one bc i already own AST, but would like to hear the improvements 
🥺


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

mndless said:


> I'm hoping that the graphs for the upcoming TRI i3 Pro are a bit more balanced in the mid-treble region. It may just be an anomaly with trying to graph them, but it always graphs strangely. Apparently they have monstrous sub-bass and solid mid-bass, though, which is incredibly tempting to me. If they can sort out the treble while making them smaller, I'll probably consider them, as I was one of the people disappointed by the relatively light bass of the Starseas.



That i3 pro looks really promising and is _numero uno_ on my watch list as a Mid-Fi Chad pair of IEM. With GK10 on the way and an inevitable purchase of CCA's not-a-BA-nor-DD unit pending, I gave up on the idea of testing out the Spring2, Summer, or Shouer Tape. 

As a KZ fan I trust that you know what bass is  and I think it was one of your comments about the Starsea that helped me decide to save the cash for now. 

Monstrous overall is what I'm looking for in an IEM. If that CCA 24 has the bottom end of the AST with the nuclear treble fire of the C12, I'd be extremely happy, even if I have to EQ to get it. I looked to see if there was a way to make a pre-order but not yet.



Barusu Lamperouge said:


> ZAS will drop to $40-45 in the 11.11 sale with some coupons and store discounts.
> 
> I'm also really piqued by FD3 Pro. If the cable is expensive on it's own then I'll purchase the IEM for a better deal. It's fantastic from Fiio to give a modular cable at $149.



The modular cable is indeed pretty cool. I think FiiO have engineered something that ticks a lot of IEM enthusiast's boxes here to drive sales for someone who wants the full experience of chifi bits 'n bobs but with solid SQ.  Just like their portable DACs, which are more/less mind blowing to me. We weren't getting SQ like this 10 years ago for 5x or 10x the cost.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> The modular cable is indeed pretty cool. I think FiiO have engineered something that ticks a lot of IEM enthusiast's boxes here to drive sales for someone who wants the full experience of chifi bits 'n bobs but with solid SQ.  Just like their portable DACs, which are more/less mind blowing to me. We weren't getting SQ like this 10 years ago for 5x or 10x the cost.


Indeed. The cable looks good and durable. Ideally, I'd just buy a couple of them and be sorted with all my gear. Saves a ton of money I'd unnecessarily spend on cables for different sources. Fiio is still the benchmark in sub $300 Chi-fi space IMO especially when it comes to DAC and IEM.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Aaaa the bass!!!
> 
> Well I just got great neutral DAC, L&P W2, so I think it can handle the chaotic bass with CP360…


So how is the W2 with the AST?


----------



## PhonoPhi

baskingshark said:


> Yep good points.
> 
> Speaking about EQ, it is a useful tool to finetune some IEMs to our personal preference. But my take is that if something needs massive EQ to salvage the tuning, that's a red flag.
> 
> ...



Very good points!

I was "conditioned" into a  "no equaling" camp.
I still do not use frequency adjustments beyond curiousity/exploring, and out of some minimalism/laziness.

Then I have always used parametric settings in DAPs (something should be chosen); and then  I found Hiby's parametric equalizer to be very interesting and useful/instructive.

So reflecting upon equalizing now, prompted by your good points: our ears, listening preferences are all different. Therefore, there are hardly any universal IEMs that would suit everyone. Then it makes all the sense to tweak IEMs to your individual preferences either by modes or by equalizing.

My "moding" started under Master @Slater guidance. I so much miss him, I hope he will get back to normal and we may have a chance to have his presence here.

I know you picture me as a "treble head" with E300 vs A10. It was actially largely due to my music preference (most classical music recordings have limited treble) and my warm DAP. I still can't stand cymbals either in real life or in most recordings, but do like violins as live as possible 
With my ASX mode I definitely went to be a "basshead", AST bass is pale by comparison. 
I do love AST smooth high mids of the BA array. The nozzle mode had a much more limited effect with AST (KZ learned!), so trying equalizers is my next step there


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> So how is the W2 with the AST?


I’m on vacation and only took Variations /Monarch with TWSs this time, but I tried last night with AST, it fits AST really well, especially for the treble extension


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Seeing more and more positive comments about the AST and the ZAS recently on youtube. Folks are noticing the bump in quality control and fit 'n finish. I still have 3 weeks to wait for my BA10.

(I am not ordering more IEM this month. i am not ordering more IEM this month. i am not ordering more IEM this month. )



Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I'd just buy a couple of them and be sorted with all my gear. Saves a ton of money I'd unnecessarily spend on cables for different sources.



I've been trying to zero in on a balanced amp for my desk, using my existing Behringer Uphoria as a DAC (which is way better than I'd expected). The array of cables with 3 different source types and multiple IEM/over-ears seems very daunting. Getting a free IEM is probably worth the $150 price on the pro unit.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> I’m on vacation and only took Variations /Monarch with TWSs this time, but I tried last night with AST, it fits AST really well, especially for the treble extension


Sounds like a keeper! Enjoy your holiday! Tell me if the M2 is better than the M11Pro when you have played with it enough! Thanks.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I've been trying to zero in on a balanced amp for my desk, using my existing Behringer Uphoria as a DAC (which is way better than I'd expected). The array of cables with 3 different source types and multiple IEM/over-ears seems very daunting. Getting a free IEM is probably worth the $150 price on the pro unit.


If you are purchasing them just for the cable than I'd suggest waiting for sometime as Fiio is going to sell the same cable independently. The price is unknown but estimates are that it will be around $40-60.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

KZ has destroyed the sub 100$ price range with the AST. I wonder if the Moondrop Variations even has a significant improvement in details given a five times higher price.


----------



## mndless

ExTubeGamer said:


> KZ has destroyed the sub 100$ price range with the AST. I wonder if the Moondrop Variations even has a significant improvement in details given a five times higher price.


If the CCA C24 has a slightly more even treble reproduction so it doesn't sound as dark without needing EQ, then it'll be a real contender for the mid-fi slayer categorization.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Just plugged ZAS out of whim to L&P W2, and wow this IEM is overlooked, very well-packed fun IEM it is!

I was going some critical listening of Anole VX (10BA), GS Audio ST10 (10BA), TRI i3 Pro(1DD/1Planer/1BA), GK10(1bass-DD/1mid-DD/1BA/2piezo), KBEar Robin(1DD/4BA), then to this ZAS, it didn’t disappoint me at all.

I haven’t changed much to ZAS, just swapped stock ear tip for CP360-M, and it’s already sounding welcoming.


----------



## r31ya

AmericanSpirit said:


> Just plugged ZAS out of whim to L&P W2, and wow this IEM is overlooked, very well-packed fun IEM it is!
> 
> I was going some critical listening of Anole VX (10BA), GS Audio ST10 (10BA), TRI i3 Pro(1DD/1Planer/1BA), GK10(1bass-DD/1mid-DD/1BA/2piezo), KBEar Robin(1DD/4BA), then to this ZAS, it didn’t disappoint me at all.
> 
> I haven’t changed much to ZAS, just swapped stock ear tip for CP360-M, and it’s already sounding welcoming.


How's KZ ZAS stacked against the new hype, GK10 and Robin?


----------



## HealPerson

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ DQ6 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-dq6.24918/reviews#review-26364
> 
> Rank: A
> 
> TOTL tuning with the DIY foam mod. I prefer this a bit over the blon bl-03 (mesh mod).


Hello. 
I was trying to figure out how exactly does it look but didn't find any photos. Can you tell/show more? Thx.


----------



## RikudouGoku

HealPerson said:


> Hello.
> I was trying to figure out how exactly does it look but didn't find any photos. Can you tell/show more? Thx.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rik...-list-music-list.925319/page-50#post-16379744


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

BA10 are here ...


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 20, 2021)

r31ya said:


> How's KZ ZAS stacked against the new hype, GK10 and Robin?


ZAS : Sound Tuning: 80/100, Technicality 72/100
GK10: Sound Tuning: 83/100, Technicality 87/100
Robin: Sound Tuning: 90/100, Technicality 65/100

Overall GK10 : A, ZAS: B, Robin : B-

Robin got warm-neutral (with some spice to retain resolution) tonality that’s very nicely tuned for a $50 IEM, KBEAR is doing very good job in tuning cheap bellsing BAs to sound very decent. Though technicalities are that of average $50 IEMs. 

ZAS got one of the matured U-shape focusing mainly on mid range, tuned  by KZ, no more KZ spikes, smoothed out topend, well leyered mid-treble, XUN bass pretty impactful, some nitpics maybe lack in image focusing due to rather dark atmosphere, also some more air for 10khz+ could help for the transparency.

GK10: got Warm-neutral tuning with 7khz small spike for definition and nuancing purpose. Not the most accurate in terms of natural timbre, but got unique sense of mix of separated tonalities by each drivers, the IEM with sub woofer, mid range speaker, tweeter and dual super tweeters. Not everyone’s dish, but has great potentials of musicality


----------



## baskingshark

KZ EDX Pro incoming. More pokemons on the way! 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6120644957975764/





When is the Pro version of this Pro version coming?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> KZ EDX Pro incoming. More pokemons on the way!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6120644957975764/
> 
> ...







Still waiting for the day they start using the name "plus ultra" lol.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> KZ EDX Pro incoming. More pokemons on the way!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6120644957975764/
> 
> ...


Wow how can they managed to get mass productions molding this fast paced😂 I thought those tools&dies cost pretty much a fortune.


----------



## baskingshark

AmericanSpirit said:


> Wow how can they managed to get mass productions molding this fast paced😂 I thought those tools&dies cost pretty much a fortune.



Haha maybe in China, labour costs and materials aren't as expensive as in the west. Plus patents/licensing ain't the most robust.

Though as a result, sometimes QC suffers in budget CHIFI. But I have to say I've owned around 10 KZs/CCAs, and the KZs all have quite good QC. Never had one with channel imbalance or wonky connectors/sound cut out, say compared to their eternal rivals TRN (cough cough).


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> Haha maybe in China, labour costs and materials aren't as expensive as in the west. Plus patents/licensing ain't the most robust.
> 
> Though as a result, sometimes QC suffers in budget CHIFI. But I have to say I've owned around 10 KZs/CCAs, and the KZs all have quite good QC. Never had one with channel imbalance or wonky connectors/sound cut out, say compared to their eternal rivals TRN (cough cough).


Yea same to me, KZ got a pretty standardized manufacturing internal controls, I haven’t experienced any QC issues that I’ve encountered with like those of small boutiques and QKZ’s. 

one of QKZ IEM broken apart when I took it right out of the box! That’s before inserting to my ear, the IEM failed.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> BA10 are here ...


Hope you like them. Arguably one of the better KZs.


baskingshark said:


> KZ EDX Pro incoming. More pokemons on the way!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6120644957975764/
> 
> ...


Hahahaha so the feedback has been received. Pro Plus will probably come by 11.11 for $15 🤣🤣


----------



## riodgarp

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I had a similar problem at first.  None of the new style shallow white tips that came with the DQ6 worked for me.  I ended up using large starlines since the nozzle can't go deep enough for my usual choice of medium sized foams. I've never tried spiral dots before so this seems like a good excuse to try 'em.
> 
> former ety user, here - yah I know what you mean



ah yes, I ended using small triple flange instead but not very tight like when used with etymotic, cause my ear canal a little bit unique, if I use medium triple flange it will hurt


----------



## voicemaster

ExTubeGamer said:


> KZ has destroyed the sub 100$ price range with the AST. I wonder if the Moondrop Variations even has a significant improvement in details given a five times higher price.


Having both, I would say Variations eat AST for breakfast, lunch, brunch, supper, snack and dinner. They are not even in the same league imho.


----------



## voicemaster

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> BA10 are here ...


I just listened with my BA10 again and I still think this BA10 is KZ's best sound tuning yet.


----------



## MacAttack7

voicemaster said:


> Having both, I would say Variations eat AST for breakfast, lunch, brunch, supper, snack and dinner. They are not even in the same league imho.


In what way is the Variations better?
AST is good enough to be end game for my cheap, non-audiophile, iPod-using ass.
Bought it during a big sale.
I'd like to buy a $500 earphone, but there's a pretty good chance that will never happen.


----------



## InvisibleInk (Aug 23, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I just listened with my BA10 again and I still think this BA10 is KZ's best sound tuning yet.


Yeah, another guy shares my view of the BA10.  Right out of of the box they had a winner.


----------



## voicemaster

MacAttack7 said:


> In what way is the Variations better?
> AST is good enough to be end game for my cheap, non-audiophile, iPod-using ass.
> Bought it during a big sale.
> I'd like to buy a $500 earphone, but there's a pretty good chance that will never happen.


The Variations sounds a lot more open, smoother in almost all frequencies, better separation which is kinda ironic because of more BA drivers on the AST, more detailed in the mid and treble. 
You don't have to spend $500, get the Aria which is cheaper than AST.


----------



## voicemaster

InvisibleInk said:


> Yeah, another guy shares my view of the BA10.  Right of of the box they had a winner.


Actually, after listening to them again, the BA10 is pretty close sound signature wise to the Variations. The bass on the BA10 is more similar to the Variations than the AST. The mid is more recessed on the BA10 and there is harshness on the high too.


----------



## mndless

Anybody have any news about possible release dates for the CCA C24? Trying to figure out if I should hold out on placing orders during the End of Season sale on AE.


----------



## saldsald

MacAttack7 said:


> In what way is the Variations better?
> AST is good enough to be end game for my cheap, non-audiophile, iPod-using ass.
> Bought it during a big sale.
> I'd like to buy a $500 earphone, but there's a pretty good chance that will never happen.


IMHO they are both quite good and you may need a better player to unleash the true potential of the AST. If you like the tuning of the AST you may not like the Variations. The Variations does have some downsides in exchange of its high resolution and superior imaging which I find it not too accurate for Violin sound and male vocal due to the lack of body perhaps below 500Hz.


----------



## Nimweth

voicemaster said:


> I just listened with my BA10 again and I still think this BA10 is KZ's best sound tuning yet.


I agree. The BA10 is my favourite KZ followed by the ZS7 (the same BAs with a DD bass).


----------



## ExTubeGamer

voicemaster said:


> Having both, I would say Variations eat AST for breakfast, lunch, brunch, supper, snack and dinner. They are not even in the same league imho.


Have you tried using equalizer on the KZ AST?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 23, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Actually, after listening to them again, the BA10 is pretty close sound signature wise to the Variations. The bass on the BA10 is more similar to the Variations than the AST. The mid is more recessed on the BA10 and *there is harshness on the high *too.



_Harshness, noo .... this is the daaaarrrrhhk side. Do not resist. Feel the treble swelling inside of you!  Unlimited powwwweeerrrrrrr!!  _


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

InvisibleInk said:


> Yeah, another guy shares my view of the BA10.  Right out of of the box they had a winner.


agree 100%.  no burn in.  no tip rolling.  sounds great on this god awful version 1.0 of the infamous brown cable. The one I received feels almost sticky and has those horrible wires in the ear reinforcements. I don't even care. My balanced cables won't fit unless I shave one down to fit this recessed pin socket.  That's the only complaint I have so far and it's a very minor one. 



Nimweth said:


> I agree. The BA10 is my favourite KZ followed by the ZS7 (the same BAs with a DD bass).



Initial impressions is that the BA10 feels like the top end of my CCA C12 with solid all BA bottom end. The BA10 is nearly a perfect set for my ears. OOTB tuning is acceptable, but it's very elastic under EQ without the slightest hint of distortion. Insta-like on this set.


----------



## r31ya

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> agree 100%.  no burn in.  no tip rolling.  sounds great on this god awful version 1.0 of the infamous brown cable. The one I received feels almost sticky and has those horrible wires in the ear reinforcements. I don't even care. My balanced cables won't fit unless I shave one down to fit this recessed pin socket.  That's the only complaint I have so far and it's a very minor one.


I somehow manage to fit my standard 0.78 balanced cable from Kbear into my DQ6. not sure the future effect on the plug but it fits


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> agree 100%.  no burn in.  no tip rolling.  sounds great on this god awful version 1.0 of the infamous brown cable. The one I received feels almost sticky and has those horrible wires in the ear reinforcements. I don't even care. My balanced cables won't fit unless I shave one down to fit this recessed pin socket.  That's the only complaint I have so far and it's a very minor one.
> 
> 
> 
> Initial impressions is that the BA10 feels like the top end of my CCA C12 with solid all BA bottom end. The BA10 is nearly a perfect set for my ears. OOTB tuning is acceptable, but it's very elastic under EQ without the slightest hint of distortion. Insta-like on this set.


Glad that you are enjoying yours. They're very addictive despite all their flaws. Only thing I changed was the cable because I got crappy pink cable with memory earguides. So I slapped them with my BT20S Pro to create a rocking workout setup! They're in rotation with BL03 and T2 Plus🤣

I agree with others it is by far the best KZ I have heard and shades CCA C10 which IMO is still the best CCA IEM. The tuning is simply superb and is available for peanuts.

My top 3 KZ/CCA would be - BA10, C10 and ED9.


----------



## northernsound (Aug 23, 2021)

I'm a newbie when it comes to IEMs, right now I have the Tin T2 hooked up to my phone when I listen to music, they have a sound signature I really enjoy, but I want an IEM with good sound quality and with a mic and I saw Zreviews review of the KZ ZS10 Pro and got interested in this brand.

Is there some other model from KZ in roughly the same budget range that can compete with or beat the KZ ZS10 Pro in some areas of sound quality? Maybe a more neutral alternative or/and a newer model that does what the KZ ZS10 Pro does good but better? I'm a little bit nervous that the KZ ZS10 Pro might have to recessed mids and to bumped up bass.


----------



## baskingshark

northernsound said:


> I'm a newbie when it comes to IEMs, right now I have the Tin T2 hooked up to my phone when I listen to music, they have a sound signature I really enjoy, but I want an IEM with good sound quality and with a mic and I saw Zreviews review of the KZ ZS10 Pro and got interested in this brand.
> 
> Is there some other model from KZ in roughly the same budget range that can compete with or beat the KZ ZS10 Pro in some areas of sound quality? Maybe a more neutral alternative or/and a newer model that does what the KZ ZS10 Pro does good but better? I'm a little bit nervous that the KZ ZS10 Pro might have to recessed mids and to bumped up bass.



The KZ ZS10 Pro is a totally different kettle of fish from the Tin T2.

KZ ZS10 pro is a V shaped set that is more aggressive and in your face than the neutralish Tin T2. Tin T2 is basslite compared to the bassy ZS10 Pro. ZS10 pro has a bit of an artificial timbre for acoustic instruments in the higher frequencies, and the upper mids/treble can get a bit harsh if you are treble sensitive. ZS10 pro has better technicalities than the Tin T2.

If you want neutralish sound, most of the KZs are V shaped actually. Best to consider another brand actually if you want "neutral sound" as per your post.


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> I'm a newbie when it comes to IEMs, right now I have the Tin T2 hooked up to my phone when I listen to music, they have a sound signature I really enjoy, but I want an IEM with good sound quality and with a mic and I saw Zreviews review of the KZ ZS10 Pro and got interested in this brand.
> 
> Is there some other model from KZ in roughly the same budget range that can compete with or beat the KZ ZS10 Pro in some areas of sound quality? Maybe a more neutral alternative or/and a newer model that does what the KZ ZS10 Pro does good but better? I'm a little bit nervous that the KZ ZS10 Pro might have to recessed mids and to bumped up bass.


Most of KZ´s iems are V-shaped (recessed mids, elevated bass/treble). So if you want something more neutral, you should look at some other brands. 

But hey, glad to see someone else from Sweden lol.


----------



## northernsound

baskingshark said:


> The KZ ZS10 Pro is a totally different kettle of fish from the Tin T2.
> 
> KZ ZS10 pro is a V shaped set that is more aggressive and in your face than the neutralish Tin T2. Tin T2 is basslite compared to the bassy ZS10 Pro. ZS10 pro has a bit of an artificial timbre for acoustic instruments in the higher frequencies, and the upper mids/treble can get a bit harsh if you are treble sensitive. ZS10 pro has better technicalities than the Tin T2.
> 
> If you want neutralish sound, most of the KZs are V shaped actually. Best to consider another brand actually if you want "neutral sound" as per your post.


Ok, thank you for your reply. I'm ok with a lot of speakers with a V-shaped sound, but there's a fine line where they can become too muffled and have overpowering bass.


----------



## northernsound

RikudouGoku said:


> Most of KZ´s iems are V-shaped (recessed mids, elevated bass/treble). So if you want something more neutral, you should look at some other brands.
> 
> But hey, glad to see someone else from Sweden lol.


Tack för svaret (thank you for the reply).  I'm ok with a lot of speakers that has a warmer more V-shaped sound but there's a fine line where they can become too muffled with an overpowering base. If one is ok with trying a more V-shaped IEM, do you think there is something else that's a better alternative (in roughly the same budget range) than the KZ ZS10 Pro?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

northernsound said:


> I'm a newbie when it comes to IEMs, right now I have the Tin T2 hooked up to my phone when I listen to music, they have a sound signature I really enjoy, but I want an IEM with good sound quality and with a mic and I saw Zreviews review of the KZ ZS10 Pro and got interested in this brand.
> 
> Is there some other model from KZ in roughly the same budget range that can compete with or beat the KZ ZS10 Pro in some areas of sound quality? Maybe a more neutral alternative or/and a newer model that does what the KZ ZS10 Pro does good but better? I'm a little bit nervous that the KZ ZS10 Pro might have to recessed mids and to bumped up bass.


If looking for neutral then sadly KZ is not for you. Maybe CCA C10 is closest they have been to Harman-ish neutral.


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> Tack för svaret (thank you for the reply).  I'm ok with a lot of speakers that has a warmer more V-shaped sound but there's a fine line where they can become too muffled with an overpowering base. If one is ok with trying a more V-shaped IEM, do you think there is something else that's a better alternative (in roughly the same budget range) than the KZ ZS10 Pro?


Pretty sure that KZ has already released 2 other iems in the same lineup as the ZS10 Pro, they are the ZSX and the ZAX (ZAX is the latest if I remember correctly). 

I personally havent tried those 2 though. But the DQ6 is my choice for a KZ iem.




Since you can use my foam mod and turn it into a TOTL iem (tonality).   

Although, if you just want a cheap iem but very good iem, you can get the Sony MH755 in Sweden.

https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B073X5FTB1

The cable is very short though, so you will need to use it with the included bluetooth amp/dac or upgrade later to a better one (like the Qudelix 5K, Fiio BTR5).


----------



## northernsound

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> If looking for neutral then sadly KZ is not for you. Maybe CCA C10 is closest they have been to Harman-ish neutral.


Thank you for the advice, I'll check it out.


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> Thank you for the advice, I'll check it out.


(I dont think the CCA C10 can compete with what we have nowadays)


----------



## northernsound

RikudouGoku said:


> Pretty sure that KZ has already released 2 other iems in the same lineup as the ZS10 Pro, they are the ZSX and the ZAX (ZAX is the latest if I remember correctly).
> 
> I personally havent tried those 2 though. But the DQ6 is my choice for a KZ iem.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the very informative reply, so how do you think the SBH24s bt-dac will affect the sound quality compared to using it with a cable?


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> Thanks for the very informative reply, so how do you think the SBH24s bt-dac will affect the sound quality compared to using it with a cable?


(havent tried it yet)

If the amp in it is decent then it might not sound much different from a regular smartphone (which usually have a pretty garbage amp).

Then again, depending on what you want (if you want more iems in the future), getting the MH755 and using it with its SBH24 amp to then later upgrade to another blueooth amp/Dac could be a pretty smart move. 


(more info on blueooth amp/dacs here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...w3s-and-shanling-up5-impression-added.906655/ )


----------



## RyuzakiL26

I'm glad that someone brought up KZ BA10, I've been contemplating to purchase AST or ZAS, however, I think I'll skip those two as I already have ZAX and this time I want to experience full BA set, in which I think BA10 will fit the purpose 👍


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## northernsound

RikudouGoku said:


> (havent tried it yet)
> 
> If the amp in it is decent then it might not sound much different from a regular smartphone (which usually have a pretty garbage amp).
> 
> ...


I'll check out your other tips too, thank you for all of them. I have the Takstar Pro 82 on the way, I think they might arrive today actually. If I like them I think I'll take some advice I've gotten here and buy the FiiO BTR3K so I hope to have a decent dac soon enough. At least for the not so hard to drive headphones.


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> I'll check out your other tips too, thank you for all of them. I have the Takstar Pro 82 on the way, I think they might arrive today actually. If I like them I think I'll take some advice I've gotten here and buy the FiiO BTR3K so I hope to have a decent dac soon enough. At least for the not so hard to drive headphones.


Its better to get the BTR5, its quite a big jump and not that much more expensive than the BTR3K.
(Although Fiio is releasing a new BTR5 soon, so might be better to wait.)


----------



## northernsound

RikudouGoku said:


> Its better to get the BTR5, its quite a big jump and not that much more expensive than the BTR3K.
> (Although Fiio is releasing a new BTR5 soon, so might be better to wait.)


OK, I got the advice in the Takstar Pro 82-thread but I'll take your advice and wait for the new BTR5 instead, I'm not in a hurry. I'm very thankful for all the advice I'm getting here, this forum is truly helpful.


----------



## RikudouGoku

northernsound said:


> OK, I got the advice in the Takstar Pro 82-thread but I'll take your advice and wait for the new BTR5 instead, I'm not in a hurry. I'm very thankful for all the advice I'm getting here, this forum is truly helpful.


Here is the info on the new BTR5: 
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/p6myq1/an_updated_btr5_with_a_new_chip_is_coming/

To be clear though, it doesnt look much like an upgrade. But I do think it might be better to wait and see if the current BTR5 will be on sale due to the new one.


----------



## r31ya

RikudouGoku said:


> Here is the info on the new BTR5:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/p6myq1/an_updated_btr5_with_a_new_chip_is_coming/
> 
> To be clear though, it doesnt look much like an upgrade. But I do think it might be better to wait and see if the current BTR5 will be on sale due to the new one.


Fiio sales rep points out that they are not planning to "upgrade" or create BTR5 Pro.
This _new _BTR5 is simply due to they actually ran out of ES9218P DAC chip and have to make it with the newer batch which is the ES9219C.

But so far, other than MQA capability, no one manage to points out major differences between the two.


----------



## RikudouGoku

r31ya said:


> Fiio sales rep points out that they are not planning to "upgrade" or create BTR5 Pro.
> This _new _BTR5 is simply due to they actually ran out of ES9218P DAC chip and have to make it with the newer batch which is the ES9219C.
> 
> But so far, other than MQA capability, no one manage to points out major differences between the two.


Yeah, that is what it seems to be. Very minor differences. But I am still assuming that the old version is going to be on sale since they need to get rid of old stock.


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## r31ya (Aug 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> (I dont think the CCA C10 can compete with what we have nowadays)


Chi-fi is kinda insane,
its crazy how we go from KZ ZS5 being triple driver is insane for its price few years ago, to whatever we have right now.

Personally i'm supremely thankful that KZ went away from that ear torture of SQ to the current smoother SQ.
That changes from that spiky Iron Maiden, KZ ZS6 to the supremely smooth & airy KZ ZS7 is mind boggling and it still continue to evolve


----------



## RikudouGoku

r31ya said:


> Chi-fi is kinda insane,
> its crazy how we go from KZ ZS5 being triple driver is insane for its price few years ago, to whatever we have right now.


Yeah, super fast progress. 



r31ya said:


> Personally i'm supremely thankful that KZ went away from that ear torture of SQ to the current smoother SQ.
> That changes from that spiky Iron Maiden, KZ ZS6 to the supremely smooth & airy KZ ZS7 is mind boggling.


ZS7 (and their current iems) are still pretty peaky though.


----------



## r31ya

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, super fast progress.
> 
> 
> ZS7 (and their current iems) are still pretty peaky though.


Its still somewhat peaky compared their todays offering 
but damn it went from _"my ear can withstand it for at most 15minutes" _to _"ok i can use it for hours now"._ which again, thank god.


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## RikudouGoku

r31ya said:


> Its still somewhat peaky compared their todays offering
> but damn it went from _"my ear can withstand it for at most 15minutes" _to _"ok i can use it for hours now"._ which again, thank god.


Yeah, it was a big change.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

r31ya said:


> Chi-fi is kinda insane,
> its crazy how we go from KZ ZS5 being triple driver is insane for its price few years ago, to whatever we have right now.
> 
> Personally i'm supremely thankful that KZ went away from that ear torture of SQ to the current smoother SQ.
> That changes from that spiky Iron Maiden, KZ ZS6 to the supremely smooth & airy KZ ZS7 is mind boggling and it still continue to evolve


Now it's 2021 and CCA can manufacture there own EST drivers.


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## RikudouGoku

ExTubeGamer said:


> Now it's 2021 and CCA can manufacture there own EST drivers.


That one is a magnetostat. Its either from Earbridge (korean company, the same driver used in the Shuoer Tape and a few others) or they "bellsinged" it.

its more likely that it is a "bellsinged" version of the Earbridge driver, since I very much doubt Earbridge sells their drivers that cheap.


----------



## jant71 (Aug 23, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> That one is a magnetostat. Its either from Earbridge (korean company, the same driver used in the Shuoer Tape and a few others) or they "bellsinged" it.
> 
> its more likely that it is a "bellsinged" version of the Earbridge driver, since I very much doubt Earbridge sells their drivers that cheap.


The price but also that the Earbridge is a combo driver and the CCA seems to be two drivers not encased together as one unit. They did something there. Kinda interesting. I never think the bass driver part is ever that great and getting it out of the case is something I thought would be good for it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> The price but also that the Earbridge is a combo driver and the CCA seems to be two drivers not encased together as one unit. They did something there. Kinda interesting. I never think the bass driver part is ever that great and getting it out of the case is something I thought would be good for it.


Yeah, what is worrying me is that they dont have any tubes for the drivers. Very likely to be a very peaky treble tuning.


----------



## jant71

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, what is worrying me is that they dont have any tubes for the drivers. Very likely to be a very peaky treble tuning.


Probably a better design certainly to stack them next to each other and use tubes then face to face. Perhaps the dynamic has more room not in the casing together but still outputting and bouncing off/around the other driver is not ideal but they are cheap. Perhaps a KZ version will be doing it a bit better as far as design.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> Probably a better design certainly to stack them next to each other and use tubes then face to face. Perhaps the dynamic has more room not in the casing together but still outputting and bouncing off/around the other driver is not ideal but they are cheap. Perhaps a KZ version will be doing it a bit better as far as design.


Well, if they can tune this better than the Shuoer Tape. That would impress me. Guess we find out when people get them soon.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, if they can tune this better than the Shuoer Tape. That would impress me. Guess we find out when people get them soon.


I sold my Shuoer Tape because the tuning was so bad for my ears. If they can pull of the resolution of the shuoer tape with a slight V-Shape tuning it would be perfect for that price.


----------



## jant71

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, if they can tune this better than the Shuoer Tape. That would impress me. Guess we find out when people get them soon.





ExTubeGamer said:


> I sold my Shuoer Tape because the tuning was so bad for my ears. If they can pull of the resolution of the shuoer tape with a slight V-Shape tuning it would be perfect for that price.


Yep, tuning is not that hard to beat. Most other implementations of the actual Magnetostat were better. I am also curious if the ability is up to par with the real thing.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

The ZAX is to my ears the best out of the KZ lot that I have so far. Maybe because it reminds me the most of my Shure SRH840 which are very clear and detailed. My brain is sorta hardwired from decades of use out of Sony V6's (and MDR7506), so most of the sets that people find great are just too dark to me. I need some heat in the top end, and KZ seems to fit that bill the best among ChiFi brands.  

Even so, the graphs of these aren't really so far off other heralded sets here on headfi. I chose Moondrop to compare against because I think they're probably the ones I'd enjoy the most based on reviews and what I know about my own ears. Lo and behold, they're not really so far off the ZAX.   

This first graph is funny to me, because I always EQ 17 kHz upward by 5-10 dB on all my IEM. 

ZAX (1DD+7BA)  vs Moondrop Blessing 2 (1DD+4BA)   





ZAX vs Moondrop Aria (1DD):  




Since getting the BA10 and pretty much loving everything I've heard out of it, I've been thinking about picking up the AS16 to have on hand to compare against the CCA 24 when it drops. I thought Thieaudio's Monarch would make a fun graph against the AS16 and I wasn't wrong. I'm not here to argue that the Monarch's ESTs vs KZs house brand of BAs is any kind of real contest here, but for as much flack as people levy on KZ for tuning I think the comparison is interesting. 

AS16 (8BA) vs Thieaudio Monarch (1DD+6BA+2EST!)


----------



## Nimweth

northernsound said:


> I'm a newbie when it comes to IEMs, right now I have the Tin T2 hooked up to my phone when I listen to music, they have a sound signature I really enjoy, but I want an IEM with good sound quality and with a mic and I saw Zreviews review of the KZ ZS10 Pro and got interested in this brand.
> 
> Is there some other model from KZ in roughly the same budget range that can compete with or beat the KZ ZS10 Pro in some areas of sound quality? Maybe a more neutral alternative or/and a newer model that does what the KZ ZS10 Pro does good but better? I'm a little bit nervous that the KZ ZS10 Pro might have to recessed mids and to bumped up bass.


KBEAR Robin.


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## AmericanSpirit (Aug 23, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> KBEAR Robin.


Yea Robin, it stands out in terms of tuning that KZ/CCA/TRN couldn’t attain at this stage. Not a $50 IEM tuning IMO. Technicalities are average one that you can expect from same price ranged IEMs, not tuning. With only exceptions to KS1, I’m seeing KBEAR/Tri as Moondrop class experienced tuning production now.


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## r31ya (Aug 23, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> KBEAR Robin.


At this point it seems our dream KZ ZS10 Pro update is called KBear Robin.
I hope the next evolustion will add better texture on bass and have semi open back like ZAS, BA10, or ZS7 to add some air, it'll be the perfect

We got KBear online store in my country but no Robin sighted so far. only the marked up $100 priced robin so far.


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## northernsound

Nimweth said:


> KBEAR Robin.


Thank you, I will check it out.


----------



## Nimweth

r31ya said:


> At this point it seems our dream KZ ZS10 Pro update is called KBear Robin.
> I hope the next evolustion will add better texture on bass and have semi open back like ZAS, BA10, or ZS7 to add some air, it'll be the perfect
> 
> We got KBear online store in my country but no Robin sighted so far. only the marked up $100 priced robin so far.


Yes, an open-backed Robin would be great. Perhaps we can persuade KZ to come up with a ZS7 Pro?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Forged from the lava flows of Mustafar and precision machined into instruments of destruction, KZ's BA10 are a force of their own to be reckoned with. An imposing trapezoidal shell looks like tactical equipment for TIE figher pilots. A smooth black body feeds deep bodied sound from a dominant position in the ear, establishing an unbreakable connection with the Dark Side of of KZ's vee shaped commands. In a universe dominated by hybrid driver clones, the BA10 is an IEM worthy of the Sith lords.





*Isolation: *KZ claim up to 26 dB. Using olive shaped, wide bore foam tips these block out ambient noise and low volume conversation much better than my other KZ sets. Stray noises from laser canon damaged parts will not be interfering with your mission to target and destroy. Not best in class by any means, but enough to silence most whimpering if you have to land and survey a planet surface after an attack.

*Bass *can be summed up in one word: _relentless. _Once the custom tuned 22955 balanced armature is called to task it does so with the authority and efficiency of Lord Vader's light saber. Subbass extension is nice and deep, sloping off in the midbass so as not to bloat the sound signature but still provides a weighty bottom end to classical and heavy metal pieces alike. While the BA unit may not have the impact on one's eardrum that large dynamic drivers are capable of producing, there is no shortage of both speed and quantity. Double kick drums rip off with ease. Hear every note in electric bass arpeggios. Decay is fast and the sound is precise. Without EQ.

How much bass you care to dial in _with EQ_ is up to you. I have extended the left most sliders upwards 12 - 15 dB with no audible distortion at moderately loud volumes. If you want to feel it in your chest, try Bach's Fugue in B minor by organist Cameron Carpenter. You may know Cameron's work from Hans Zimmer's _Cornfield Chase _on the_ Interstellar _movie soundtrack_, _but that ain't Bach now, is it. After the 3 minute mark things get real interesting and the lower registers of the organ begin to fill one's ears. Then all hell breaks loose, leading up to an alarmingly sustained note so deep and powerful that you will check your shorts afterward. Find the full track on tidal or spotify and hear for yourself. Bach is a forte for the BA10 - organ, strings, brass, or all three.



Alarms are firing off everywhere. High command has jumped to a new rebel location and we've been informed that High-Value Targets are aboard a cargo ship. Except that it's swarming with X-wings. Time to get in the mood with some of the grim reaper's own kick drum.



*Mids*: this is a good time to talk about them. There is one driver for upper mids, but the mids-mids get a dedicated driver of their own, a KZ constructed 29689, and it does not disappoint. _"Nothing succeeds like excess" --Oscar Wilde  _Guitars are fierce and have enough crunch and clarity to satisfy die hard metal heads. Like the substance enhanced double kick drum on this track, the speed on display in the guitar solos on Slayer's _Angel of Death _is mesmerizing and one can hear the picking on every note. Some IEM have only featured this singular driver for the entire earphone - the same model, 29689. KBEar's new Neon is one example, and Etymotic's famous ER4 is another. But why show up to a saber fight without also carrying a BFG, that's what I always say. Sith Lord, remember? We are packing an additional 4 BAs in our arsenal of sound.



Palpatine has to have something to listen to while pretending to be normal at the Senate. Black and heavy, Electric Wizard's _Funeropolis_ provides a nice little pick-me-up during those afternoon doldrums. Saturated with doom and featuring a drop D string that's quantum entangled with an asteroid in the next solar system, we're treated to a barrage of deep riffs over distorted vocals that culminate into a side to side stereo sweep assertion that the nukes, _dear enemies_, are ready to strike. Sonically speaking this track is just a bone crushing monster when played back at volume. Tread carefully! I think the mids just absolutely slay in this set, but that's probably just the dopamine talking right now. 

But now I have something personal to share with you. Sometimes ... sometimes I think about my ex and I get really emotional. You know, everything was so perfect. _But she just didn't understand. I mean, are you going to tell me a female like this is all rainbows and unicorns in her head? I don't think so. There is something dark inside her, just like me. She relishes power. She wants more. I can feel it. Yes, I felt it. But I had to leave her.  _





But whatever, I'm over it. To shake it off I commandeer one of the smaller star destroyers of the imperial fleet, and find a small civilization to decimate and pillage for resources and look-alikes of my ex. To ease the pain, Celtic Frost's _Os Abysmi vel Daath _is programmed to blast throughout the bridge of the ship as soon as we jump to hyperspace.



Right away when the vocals come in, jagged and torn over a riff plucked from hymns of the ancients rises a creeping female howl that eventually smears into a sustained guitar note. This is the kind of track where the BA10 really shines through. As the volume rises it is simply unforgiving anywhere on the frequency spectrum. There is nowhere to hide. Your eardrums will be hunted down. They will be confronted. Your survival depends on the severity of your tinnitus and your own masochism.

Let's meet Vanja, now, the bassist from Triptykon. I forget what planet she's from but it must be awesome there.   








*Sound stage* is what I would call "good" and about on par with closed back overears headphones. These can be very much in-your-head (where I can speak to you _directly mhuhWWHAhaha... errmm, sorry_) and features an accurate and lively sound. Because of the all BA design, imaging is actually quite good in my opinion. The production on Williams' Star Wars CDs is incredible, and the sources for the brass and various instruments are easily pinpointed around the seating chart. You didn't think we'd leave out Williams, did you?!



*Treble and top end*: The brass, sir, the brrrraaaaaaassssss!!!  The upper mids and the treble are just excellent for what I want to hear in a headphone. Bright, clean, and layered. Vanbur's _In a Cold Light _features a strange set of strings that bounce between channels. Floating there above the vocals, like tiny icicles in the air. Upper mids come from a 31005 and treble is beamed into your skull from a pair of 30095 BAs.

The overall signature of the top end is one of precision. Those seeking "smooth and detailed" should approach here with caution, but even in the stock tuning I don't feel that KZ has either diabolically over-cooked the treble as they have in other sets, nor have they shut it out of the part entirely as they did for ASX, ASF, and the 24 driver AST. If you're a treble head, as I am, go ahead and hit those EQ sliders and you'll be rewarded with a top end that scales for days. In this regard I find a lot of similarity with the more neutrally tuned CCA C12 which I still enjoy quite a lot. Both of these sets can really bring the fire on the top end if you crave a good skull piercing.  



When being more reasonable, add in just a few dB and the crystalline vocals on Voces8 are a great example of a highly analytical top end that isn't boring. _A Pile of Dust_ is a beautiful piece that comes across with grace and some of the cleanest vocal recordings I've ever heard recorded. There is no cathedral reverb here to reinforce tone or timbre from the choir - all talent, beamed straight into the mics.  Watch and listen to it here in 4K. When First Soprano Andrea Haines' vibrato free voice rings out at the 2:28 mark you will hear exactly what the microphones did. There is no coloring or artificial quality to the sound to be heard. If you _don't_ have a set that's clean and transparent, you could do a lot worse than the BA10.



*Rating:  *on a scale of 0 - 5 robotic arms, I give the BA10 a mind smearing 4.0 while leaping into hyperspace with both arms raised in tribute to the Dark Lords before me. There is a lot to love here in my opinion, especially for an older set, but I have to remove a full arm for timbre and tonality. I could write more, but I need to return to my replenishment facility.  Timbre and tone are _good_, but not _great_. The BA10 isn't pretending to be a TOTL piece. If you want something with acceptable tuning OOTB and technological lithographic accuracy, these are aging well and are still a great buy. 

Amp used:  BTR3K
Tips:  Olive foams and Starlines 
Cable: Silver plated 8 core stolen from Geek Wold GK10


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Forged from the lava flows of Mustafar and precision machined into instruments of destruction, KZ's BA10 are a force of their own to be reckoned with. An imposing trapezoidal shell looks like tactical equipment for TIE figher pilots. A smooth black body feeds deep bodied sound from a dominant position in the ear, establishing an unbreakable connection with the Dark Side of of KZ's vee shaped commands. In a universe dominated by hybrid driver clones, the BA10 is an IEM worthy of the Sith lords.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, the BA10 is amazing. The best all-BA IEM I have and KZ's best model.


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## Barusu Lamperouge (Aug 24, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Forged from the lava flows of Mustafar and precision machined into instruments of destruction, KZ's BA10 are a force of their own to be reckoned with. An imposing trapezoidal shell looks like tactical equipment for TIE figher pilots. A smooth black body feeds deep bodied sound from a dominant position in the ear, establishing an unbreakable connection with the Dark Side of of KZ's vee shaped commands. In a universe dominated by hybrid driver clones, the BA10 is an IEM worthy of the Sith lords.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hahahaha great review. I concur. BA10 are special. They simply do the job especially at the current retail price during sales.

I find them a perfect allrounder except at times I develop driver flex in my right ear due to ventless design (it is somehow mitigated by using large CX 3.00 tips). But still one of my top favourites. Will definitely be in my top 5 IEMs to carry on to an island.


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Forged from the lava flows of Mustafar and precision machined into instruments of destruction, KZ's BA10 are a force of their own to be reckoned with. An imposing trapezoidal shell looks like tactical equipment for TIE figher pilots. A smooth black body feeds deep bodied sound from a dominant position in the ear, establishing an unbreakable connection with the Dark Side of of KZ's vee shaped commands. In a universe dominated by hybrid driver clones, the BA10 is an IEM worthy of the Sith lords.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great description. It reminds me of some of the promotional material for the KBEAR Believe:

"Earn for a glimpse of the Galaxy
 With the deep sea blue of nature as the background, inlaid with volcanic ash carbon fiber with rich texture and layering, and then covered with transparent resin, the beauty of volcanic gradual sea is shining in the ears."


----------



## voicemaster

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Hahahaha great review. I concur. BA10 are special. They simply do the job especially at the current retail price during sales.
> 
> I find them a perfect allrounder except at times I develop driver flex in my right ear due to ventless design (it is somehow mitigated by using large CX 3.00 tips). But still one of my top favourites. Will definitely be in my top 5 IEMs to carry on to an island.


I didn't know BA driver can flex like DD.


----------



## mndless

voicemaster said:


> I didn't know BA driver can flex like DD.


They can. It's still a moving diaphragm with a membrane. If you apply too much pressure to one side, the force of the electromagnet on the armature will be unable to fully overcome this. It's not exactly the same as the driver flex you get with dynamic drivers, as you won't usually hear a crinkling or crackling noise upon insertion. Instead, the sound will just be muffled or distorted. Vented housings can help a lot with equalizing insertion pressure, but it's usually down to tip fit, material, and design to minimize this problem. Another contributing factor is the IEM design in general. Too short of sound tubes gives you less air space to compress and larger nozzle diameters create a greater pistonic effect when inserting. A particularly long nozzle can also add to this problem.


----------



## voicemaster

RikudouGoku said:


> (I dont think the CCA C10 can compete with what we have nowadays)


I still think for people who like a more neutralish sound, the CCA C10 is probably the best choice. I listened to mine just now and it can still compete with the newer models. One thing about C10 is that it doesn't sound exciting because there is almost none of the frequencies stand out too much. For some reason C10 was kinda underappreciated when it launch because everybody was praising the ZS10pro that sounds more exciting.


----------



## HealPerson

RikudouGoku said:


> (I dont think the CCA C10 can compete with what we have nowadays)


Just wanted to ask why u think so? 
I was really happy with em couple years ago. Little sorry i sold em. Do you think dq6 better somehow nowadays? I bought em to try but i still think to get new c10 to compare them


----------



## RikudouGoku

HealPerson said:


> Just wanted to ask why u think so?
> I was really happy with em couple years ago. Little sorry i sold em. Do you think dq6 better somehow nowadays? I bought em to try but i still think to get new c10 to compare them


C10 is at C- for me, while the DQ6 is at A- at stock and at A with my DIY foam mod.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 25, 2021)

Keeping all KZ/CCA product catalog straight in your head is an ominous task.  I've been reading through old posts in this thread from 2018-2019-early 2020.  Many people were (and probably still are) very fond of the ZS7 (1DD+4BA), but I think the Robin is actually selling for less money as of right now. I would have to bet that Robin's bass is better controlled, just as warm, and that overall it has better tuning based on reviews coming through.

The thing is that the mid range IEM segment from KZ and CCA hit 6-8 driver count per side in yr 2020, leaving the ZS6, ZS7, ZS10 and C10 and C10 Pro segment left for dead in 2021 in favor of cheap 1DD+1BA designs on the bottom end of the range.  If you prefer a few less driver count for a more coherent sound in these hybrids, there's really nothing else competing with the Robin at that price point.  

edit:  for BA hybrid, that is.  DQ6 is a wonderful 3-way dynamic that I absolutely adore for rock and pop. I'm still getting a fair bit of head time with those while working.


----------



## baskingshark

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Keeping all KZ/CCA product catalog straight in your head is an ominous task.  I've been reading through old posts in this thread from 2018-2019-early 2020.  Many people were (and probably still are) very fond of the ZS7 (1DD+4BA), but I think the Robin is actually selling for less money as of right now. I would have to bet that Robin's bass is better controlled, just as warm, and that overall it has better tuning based on reviews coming through.
> 
> The thing is that the mid range IEM segment from KZ and CCA hit 6-8 driver count per side in yr 2020, leaving the ZS6, ZS7, ZS10 and C10 and C10 Pro segment left for dead in 2021 in favor of cheap 1DD+1BA designs on the bottom end of the range.  If you prefer a few less driver count for a more coherent sound in these hybrids, there's really nothing else competing with the Robin at that price point.



Actually KBEAR Robin's bass isn't very controlled. It bleeds and is a bit one noted. The midbass bleed adds to warm the lower mids, but those that want a fast and tight bass may not like it, so YMMV. Robin is a U shaped set, non fatiguing and smooth. Tonality is generally good for treble sensitive folk and those that want a warm bassy tuning. The KBEAR Robin isn't bad, but the technicalities aren't classleading for the $50ish price range, soundstage and microdetails are a bit limited.

There are more technical sets eg HZSound Heart Mirror. Even KZ ZS10 Pro has better technicalities than the KBEAR Robin.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Actually KBEAR Robin's bass isn't very controlled. It bleeds and is a bit one noted. The midbass bleed adds to warm the lower mids, but those that want a fast and tight bass may not like it, so YMMV. Robin is a U shaped set, non fatiguing and smooth. Tonality is generally good for treble sensitive folk and those that want a warm bassy tuning. The KBEAR Robin isn't bad, but the technicalities aren't classleading for the $50ish price range, soundstage and microdetails are a bit limited.
> 
> There are more technical sets eg HZSound Heart Mirror. Even KZ ZS10 Pro has better technicalities than the KBEAR Robin.


Yeah, the bass on the Robin is definitely slow/loose, more in line with the Final E3000 for example.
The tech is pretty dissapointing for 55 usd, it is more around 25 usd (DQ6, 03, MH755/750) to me....


----------



## ExTubeGamer

RikudouGoku said:


> C10 is at C- for me, while the DQ6 is at A- at stock and at A with my DIY foam mod.


The DQ6 is so well-tuned and so detailed that I don't see a reason to buy an IEM over 100€ now.


----------



## RikudouGoku

ExTubeGamer said:


> The DQ6 is so well-tuned and so detailed that I don't see a reason to buy an IEM over 100€ now.


Diminishing returns hit pretty hard. I say the next step up would be the GS Audio GD3A (S ranked),


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Today I achieved a great feat. I tried to foam mod my DQ6 and pushed the grills in while doing so. Pushing my leftover Moondrop Starfield grills on the now open nozzles helped and sounds good.

Without some foam in it the DQ6 sounds totally fine.


----------



## mndless

RikudouGoku said:


> Diminishing returns hit pretty hard. I say the next step up would be the GS Audio GD3A (S ranked),


The GD5 will be making a return as well sometime soon-ish (their rep couldn't give me a date). I'll be ordering a set of those when they do.


----------



## InvisibleInk

ExTubeGamer said:


> Today I achieved a great feat. I tried to foam mod my DQ6 and pushed the grills in while doing so. Pushing my leftover Moondrop Starfield grills on the now open nozzles helped and sounds good.
> 
> Without some foam in it the DQ6 sounds totally fine.


We can't help but salute you for your efforts here. Carry on!


----------



## rayliam80

ExTubeGamer said:


> Today I achieved a great feat. I tried to foam mod my DQ6 and pushed the grills in while doing so. Pushing my leftover Moondrop Starfield grills on the now open nozzles helped and sounds good.
> 
> Without some foam in it the DQ6 sounds totally fine.



I also experienced something similar with my DQ6. I pushed in one of the nozzle screen accidentally, then just took off the screens and put earfoam strips over the nozzles. But I realized they became a bit too smooth sounding. The open nozzles didn’t sound as sharp nor did they lack much in bass. But out of caution, I decided to put on some spare nozzle screens that I had left over from the Blon BL-03 mod I did. I kinda wish I had an unmodded DQ6 to compare. Still, it’s a very pleasant IEM.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

rayliam80 said:


> I also experienced something similar with my DQ6. I pushed in one of the nozzle screen accidentally, then just took off the screens and put earfoam strips over the nozzles. But I realized they became a bit too smooth sounding. The open nozzles didn’t sound as sharp nor did they lack much in bass. But out of caution, I decided to put on some spare nozzle screens that I had left over from the Blon BL-03 mod I did. I kinda wish I had an unmodded DQ6 to compare. Still, it’s a very pleasant IEM.


These Moondrop grills barely fit on my DQ6. I put Xcessor silicon tips on the DQ6 now and it works really well. A bit wider sound then stock tips with stock grills.

For some reason it seems that IEMs without nozzle grills sound brighter.


----------



## InvisibleInk

ExTubeGamer said:


> These Moondrop grills barely fit on my DQ6. I put Xcessor silicon tips on the DQ6 now and it works really well. A bit wider sound then stock tips with stock grills.
> 
> For some reason it seems that IEMs without nozzle grills sound brighter.


I feel the same about speakers. When I remove the mesh covering the drivers, the speakers somehow better than when they are covered. I think it's a trick of the brain, though.


----------



## lushmelody (Aug 26, 2021)

The only +$100 set that i think is interesting rn is 7hz Timeless bc planar drivers curiosity. I'm also hoping CCA EST be a great budget deal. So different driver technology is the only reason i would buy new toys now (and avoid punish my wallet and consciousness with redundant products)


----------



## InvisibleInk

lushmelody said:


> The only +$100 set that i think is interesting rn is 7hz Timeless bc planar drivers curiosity. I'm also hoping CCA EST be a great budget deal. So different driver technology is the only reason i would buy new toys now (and avoid punish my wallet and consciousness with redundant products)


You need a powerful source to drive a planar magnetic driver. It doesn't matter how small it gets, it wants current. Dongles? Forget it.


----------



## mndless

InvisibleInk said:


> You need a powerful source to drive a planar magnetic driver. It doesn't matter how small it gets, it wants current. Dongles? Forget it.


HiBy R5 Saber will do it if you want a DAP. It'll output just over 1W per channel on balanced at 16Ω. For IEMs, that is a ridiculous amount of power.


----------



## r31ya (Aug 26, 2021)

mndless said:


> HiBy R5 Saber will do it if you want a DAP. It'll output just over 1W per channel on balanced at 16Ω. For IEMs, that is a ridiculous amount of power.


1 Watt for an IEM? how thirsty that IEM could be?
BTR5 and S9 Pro with balanced could power up to 200mw, is it not enough?
Sure it scales up with more power but how much it going to need till its "proper"


----------



## mndless

r31ya said:


> 1 Watt for an IEM? how thirsty that IEM could be?
> BTR5 and S9 Pro with balanced could power up to 200mw, is it not enough?
> Sure it scales up with more power but how much it going to need till its "proper"


There are plenty of over-ear headphones that thirst for power. Usually they're the really big planar, though, so 1W per channel may not even be enough. I got one as a gift for a friend to pair with his Kinera NanNa 2.0, since those things are moderately high impedance and love power. He can't go over 35% volume on high gain balanced. They did sound amazing, though, when I heard them run from that DAP. I don't know if they sounded $900 worth of good, but that's his decision to make.


----------



## r31ya

mndless said:


> There are plenty of over-ear headphones that thirst for power. Usually they're the really big planar, though, so 1W per channel may not even be enough. I got one as a gift for a friend to pair with his Kinera NanNa 2.0, since those things are moderately high impedance and love power. He can't go over 35% volume on high gain balanced. They did sound amazing, though, when I heard them run from that DAP. I don't know if they sounded $900 worth of good, but that's his decision to make.


I mean Headphone i understand the power required could go way up. But for an IEMs to have that high of power requirement seems like a design flaw.
Ah, so some could in some way benefit more power but its not required to have that much power to sound proper. 

Hoo, EST Kinera Nana. I wonder how CCA EST/NRA will scales up with moar Powah


----------



## mndless

r31ya said:


> I mean Headphone i understand the power required could go way up. But for an IEMs to have that high of power requirement seems like a design flaw.
> Ah, so some could in some way benefit more power but its not required to have that much power to sound proper.
> 
> Hoo, EST Kinera Nana. I wonder how CCA EST/NRA will scales up with moar Powah


The NanNa 2.0 are using the Sonion electret drivers, not magnetostatic drivers. Magnetostat drivers typically have lower power requirements. I would expect the CCA NRA to be significantly easier to power to their optimal state compared to the NanNa 2.0. I think I figured that they required something like 70% volume on my HiBy R3 Pro Saber to sound right, and those have 280mW per channel on balanced at 32Ω. They love power.


----------



## lushmelody

InvisibleInk said:


> You need a powerful source to drive a planar magnetic driver. It doesn't matter how small it gets, it wants current. Dongles? Forget it.


Thought the driver size would mitigate this problem 😔 is a balanced more robust portable source still not enough? So is it limited to desktop amps only?


----------



## r31ya

lushmelody said:


> Thought the driver size would mitigate this problem 😔 is a balanced more robust portable source still not enough? So is it limited to desktop amps only?


The one i got recomendded when i want to purchase Hifiman He400i (2020) is IFI Hip DAC or Fiio Q3.
Both are still technically portable or at least still somewhat smaller than modern smartphone unlike lets say Xduoo XD-05 Plus.

If i recalled it right, both capable to power up to 400 mW, which apparently to the previous owner of HE400i, its good enough to get proper sound from it.


----------



## InvisibleInk

r31ya said:


> 1 Watt for an IEM? how thirsty that IEM could be?
> BTR5 and S9 Pro with balanced could power up to 200mw, is it not enough?
> Sure it scales up with more power but how much it going to need till its "proper"


I'd consider those devices weak when it comes to powering the Tin HiFi P2. So, yeah, just don't venture into planar territory without power.


----------



## InvisibleInk

r31ya said:


> The one i got recomendded when i want to purchase Hifiman He400i (2020) is IFI Hip DAC or Fiio Q3.
> Both are still technically portable or at least still somewhat smaller than modern smartphone unlike lets say Xduoo XD-05 Plus.
> 
> If i recalled it right, both capable to power up to 400 mW, which apparently to the previous owner of HE400i, its good enough to get proper sound from it.


Just because 400mW's powers an HE400i, doesn't mean much. I have a DAC X6 which puts out 450 mW. It can _just barely_ power the LCD-2F, but falls on its face trying to power the T60rp or P2. For those guys, the iFi iDSD Black label and Hip-DAC, plus the Modi/Magni Schiit stacks work fine. The DAPs I have, Shanling, HiBy, and Zishan, are all too wimpy.


----------



## r31ya

InvisibleInk said:


> Just because 400mW's powers an HE400i, doesn't mean much. I have a DAC X6 which puts out 450 mW. It can _just barely_ power the LCD-2F, but falls on its face trying to power the T60rp or P2. For those guys, the iFi iDSD Black label and Hip-DAC, plus the Modi/Magni Schiit stacks work fine. The DAPs I have, Shanling, HiBy, and Zishan, are all too wimpy.


I remember first time trying out the HE4xx on the store, all i had is my phone and BTR5.
On 3.5mm (80mW), it barely make a sound on max volume.

And i guess that's is one of the "lighter" planar.


----------



## mndless

With this chat about planar magnetic headphones, it would certainly be interesting to see if KZ or CCA decided to release a planar magnetic set of earphones at a $100 price point. I don't think anyone has a planar available at that price point.


----------



## baskingshark

mndless said:


> With this chat about planar magnetic headphones, it would certainly be interesting to see if KZ or CCA decided to release a planar magnetic set of earphones at a $100 price point. I don't think anyone has a planar available at that price point.



TRI I3 is around $140ish USD (it has a planar inside). I bought my TRI I3 at $108 USD actually, after using some coupons at Aliexpress' sale.

I think it has been superceded by the TRI I3 Pro that recently released.


----------



## MacAttack7

I've read on many reviews that the ASX and ASF have recessed mids.
If that is the case why are vocals so forward?

I think that's why I like them both so much, becasue I enjoy singer/songwriter music.
I don't understand graphs and equalizer settings too much, but I thought vocals were firmly within the "mids".


----------



## mndless

baskingshark said:


> TRI I3 is around $140ish USD (it has a planar inside). I bought my TRI I3 at $108 USD actually, after using some coupons at Aliexpress' sale.
> 
> I think it has been superceded by the TRI I3 Pro that recently released.


Purely planar sets seem to be more expensive than hybrid sets that use a planar. I'm not really sure why this is the case, but my best guess would be the tuning challenge that a planar magnetic set poses when you try to make it function as a proper full-range driver, since they aren't always known to have substantial bass impact or excellent treble performance unless you're very careful with the driver design and enclosure tuning. Based on the graphs and recommended crossover points for the raw planar magnetic drivers I've found for IEMs on AliExpress, it seems to be quite a challenge to get their upper treble performance to behave as you want, since both the 10mm and 14mm planar drivers I found want to be crossed over before 5kHz. TRI compensated for this with a DD and BA to handle those regions, but it would be nice to find a pure planar set with acceptable bass levels and smooth treble so you get the coherency of a single driver but the potential for natural timbre that some planar drivers can provide.


----------



## baskingshark

MacAttack7 said:


> I've read on many reviews that the ASX and ASF have recessed mids.
> If that is the case why are vocals so forward?
> 
> I think that's why I like them both so much, becasue I enjoy singer/songwriter music.
> I don't understand graphs and equalizer settings too much, but I thought vocals were firmly within the "mids".








This is a useful chart I use for stage monitoring for EQ purposes (like to know where to cut/increase for stage work for vocals/instruments).

The vocals generally encompass the midrange as above. Female vocals are as expected, of higher frequency range than males, but they are still in the mids mostly. There are vocal harmonics that also affect their perception at higher frequencies. Eg the sibilance area. Sibilance refers to the high frequency components of some vocal sounds, especially “s” and “sh”. Sibilance is mostly found in the 5 to 10 kHz frequency range, it can cause issues if there is too much of this.




mndless said:


> Purely planar sets seem to be more expensive than hybrid sets that use a planar. I'm not really sure why this is the case, but my best guess would be the tuning challenge that a planar magnetic set poses when you try to make it function as a proper full-range driver, since they aren't always known to have substantial bass impact or excellent treble performance unless you're very careful with the driver design and enclosure tuning. Based on the graphs and recommended crossover points for the raw planar magnetic drivers I've found for IEMs on AliExpress, it seems to be quite a challenge to get their upper treble performance to behave as you want, since both the 10mm and 14mm planar drivers I found want to be crossed over before 5kHz. TRI compensated for this with a DD and BA to handle those regions, but it would be nice to find a pure planar set with acceptable bass levels and smooth treble so you get the coherency of a single driver but the potential for natural timbre that some planar drivers can provide.



Then if you want a pure planar, probably the cheapest would be the Tin P1 at around $150ish USD. It can be just slightly above $100 during sales.
P1 is rather hard to drive, and IMO is not too portable outside as most dongles and low powered smartphones can't drive it. Plus it is rather bass lite when not powered well.


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Then if you want a pure planar, probably the cheapest would be the Tin P1 at around $150ish USD. It can be just slightly above $100 during sales.
> P1 is rather hard to drive, and IMO is not too portable outside as most dongles and low powered smartphones can't drive it. Plus it is rather bass lite when not powered well.


I honestly do not think the P1 is a good iem if you want to hear how a planar sounds like. Because it sounds very different from them (the hifiman Sundara sounded very different from it).


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> KZ EDX Pro incoming. More pokemons on the way!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6120644957975764/
> 
> ...



So for our pokemon collectors, the EDX Pro is finally on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003199660801.html

$8 USD for non mic version! $9 for the mic version!

How do these guys break even?!
The graph is a bit wonky though, assuming the store provided graph is legit. The high sensitivity with lowish impedance may also mean it may be a hissy IEM.


----------



## Nimweth

With all the recent posts about the BA10 I was expecting a post from @Podster. We have not heard from him for a while, hope he is OK.


----------



## requal (Aug 27, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> I've read on many reviews that the ASX and ASF have recessed mids.
> If that is the case why are vocals so forward?
> 
> I think that's why I like them both so much, becasue I enjoy singer/songwriter music.
> I don't understand graphs and equalizer settings too much, but I thought vocals were firmly within the "mids".


I have Asx and Asf too. My impresions are also different to how they looks on graph. Definitely not recessed midrange, and not bassy or dark. Asf has more lows ofc, but not as much as bass monster like ZAS.
I need to admit that, I have good deep seal, and those are comfortable for me.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Just noticed that the EDX Pro and the NRA have a similar looking DD

EDX Pro





NRA


----------



## paulwasabii

baskingshark said:


> So for our pokemon collectors, the EDX Pro is finally on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003199660801.html
> 
> $8 USD for non mic version! $9 for the mic version!
> 
> ...



The original KZ EDX did not have a KZ supplied graph but here is what I have.  When my Pro arrives, I will re-measure both. Looking at the Pro graph, I do wonder if they gave the Pro the same bass "enhancement" as the ZAS.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> With all the recent posts about the BA10 I was expecting a post from @Podster. We have not heard from him for a while, hope he is OK.


Hey Nim, appreciate the well wishes. Been busy with life as they say with third son entering college this year I've curbed my audio purchasing but still enjoying all the wares I have  Now remember we all hear these things a little different but for me my BA10's are still my favorite all BA iem and as you know I have quite a few (and more costly). The BA10 at least for me is the most balanced, even distribution of freq's across the board period. I've got 6 BA and even 12 BA units that just don't have the cohesion that the BA10 has (unfortunately for KZ the tiny toaster shape prevented a good seal for certain ear shapes) , like the Hybrid ZS7 where KZ finally hit the mark on that shell design and tuning of course I remind you once again just Pod's opinion. I see KZ is still putting out some fine looking pieces and I may break come 11/11 and at least give one new issue a try

Still to this day I think this $8 wonder is the best sub $10 iem eva (But what do I know)!


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Hey Nim, appreciate the well wishes. Been busy with life as they say with third son entering college this year I've curbed my audio purchasing but still enjoying all the wares I have  Now remember we all hear these things a little different but for me my BA10's are still my favorite all BA iem and as you know I have quite a few (and more costly). The BA10 at least for me is the most balanced, even distribution of freq's across the board period. I've got 6 BA and even 12 BA units that just don't have the cohesion that the BA10 has (unfortunately for KZ the tiny toaster shape prevented a good seal for certain ear shapes) , like the Hybrid ZS7 where KZ finally hit the mark on that shell design and tuning of course I remind you once again just Pod's opinion. I see KZ is still putting out some fine looking pieces and I may break come 11/11 and at least give one new issue a try
> 
> Still to this day I think this $8 wonder is the best sub $10 iem eva (But what do I know)!


Nice to hear from you, glad all is well! I have to agree with you on all three counts, BA10 is best all BA IEM, ZS7 the best KZ hybrid and ED9 takes some beating at the price!


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

RikudouGoku said:


> Just noticed that the EDX Pro and the NRA have a similar looking DD
> 
> EDX Pro
> 
> ...



I wonder why they didn't use the XUN.


----------



## paulwasabii

Or maybe the EDX Pro is closer to the CCA CA2


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I wonder why they didn't use the XUN.


They do look similar but the EDX has a dual magnet and the NRA has a triple magnet design.


----------



## Podster (Aug 27, 2021)

Well like Mr. Mom says, 220/221 (Dual/Triple Magnet) "Whatever it takes"  I've always found it amazing how two totally different iem's from size/shape, driver appointment to tuning can sound so much alike. That's just from the the iem standpoint before you even get to source, file type and dare I say (Say, Say) ones own ears

Here's a true story for all my KZ fans, let's travel back to 2015 when I probably purchased 12-15 pair of ED9's which I immediately converted 8 close friends from Apple Buds (standard issue with Apple phones at the time), the Black Box (probably Maxell) Buds or the horrid Skull Candies  Just to watch them get a proper seal then see their eyes get wide and jaws drop were all the confirmation I ever needed to confirm the ED9 was a very BIG leap for my(no make that all) of my music listening friends Even though a few of them have moved on and up they still thank me for opening their eyes (more like ears) but you get the gist


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Podster said:


> Hey Nim, appreciate the well wishes. Been busy with life as they say with third son entering college this year I've curbed my audio purchasing but still enjoying all the wares I have  Now remember we all hear these things a little different but for me my BA10's are still my favorite all BA iem and as you know I have quite a few (and more costly). The BA10 at least for me is the most balanced, even distribution of freq's across the board period. I've got 6 BA and even 12 BA units that just don't have the cohesion that the BA10 has (unfortunately for KZ the tiny toaster shape prevented a good seal for certain ear shapes) , like the Hybrid ZS7 where KZ finally hit the mark on that shell design and tuning of course I remind you once again just Pod's opinion. I see KZ is still putting out some fine looking pieces and I may break come 11/11 and at least give one new issue a try
> 
> Still to this day I think this $8 wonder is the best sub $10 iem eva (But what do I know)!


For me still there aren't any IEM that can match ED9 for $8-10. They conveniently blow past the competition. Certainly is in my top 3 KZs along side BA10 and ZSN.


----------



## Podster

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> For me still there aren't any IEM that can match ED9 for $8-10. They conveniently blow past the competition. Certainly is in my top 3 KZs along side BA10 and ZSN.


True dat and even stranger to me was how so many were either the Gold nozzle (my fave) or the Brass nozzle as their fave, once again supporting my feeling we all do hear them just a little different depending on ones own hearing abilities and thresholds  Heck I'll bet my 3rd favorite will probably throw most of you off completely! Love mine so much that I bought both colors so my right would be red and left be black (I might also add the best fitting KZ to date actually one of the best fitting iem's for me eva) Some found these dark but my remedy was a nice silver core to bring them imho to full potential Of course like all things audio ymmv I could easily be stranded on a deserted island (with a solar charger of course) with this rig!


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Podster said:


> True dat and even stranger to me was how so many were either the Gold nozzle (my fave) or the Brass nozzle as their fave, once again supporting my feeling we all do hear them just a little different depending on ones own hearing abilities and thresholds  Heck I'll bet my 3rd favorite will probably throw most of you off completely! Love mine so much that I bought both colors so my right would be red and left be black (I might also add the best fitting KZ to date actually one of the best fitting iem's for me eva) Some found these dark but my remedy was a nice silver core to bring them imho to full potential Of course like all things audio ymmv I could easily be stranded on a deserted island (with a solar charger of course) with this rig!


Truly YMMV. Ultimately it's all means to enjoy music whatever works. Retro KZ is still very much competent nowadays despite all the improvement and development in drivers, tuning and technology.


----------



## baskingshark

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> For me still there aren't any IEM that can match ED9 for $8-10. They conveniently blow past the competition. Certainly is in my top 3 KZs along side BA10 and ZSN.



Sony MH755 would like to have a word with you hahaha.

But TBH the MH755 is bottlenecked by the super short microphonic fixed cable. And it is very hard to find a legit set in the wild now.


----------



## baskingshark

paulwasabii said:


> The original KZ EDX did not have a KZ supplied graph but here is what I have.  When my Pro arrives, I will re-measure both. Looking at the Pro graph, I do wonder if they gave the Pro the same bass "enhancement" as the ZAS.



Thanks man, look forward to your Pro review and comparisons.

TBH I see a 15 dB pinna gain on the store provided graphs of the KZ EDX Pro and that seriously frightens me.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Sony MH755 would like to have a word with you hahaha.
> 
> But TBH the MH755 is bottlenecked by the super short microphonic fixed cable. And it is very hard to find a legit set in the wild now.


Precisely, hahahaha. MH series is damn good but getting a legit piece and also moving away from the J cable is troublesome.

If it was as easily available as ED9 then yes there are two IEMs in that price that punch way above their weight.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I remember at one point that the cult of JVC Marshmallow was legion.  They seem to have faded away (as they deserve).  Never liked those but the hype was strong, like the Sony's. The thing about Sony - my kid still has their xtrabass buds we bought for them as a stocking stuffer circa 2012. I think they were the MDR-XB50 if memory serves correctly. 



Podster said:


> Here's a true story for all my KZ fans, let's travel back to 2015 when I probably purchased 12-15 pair of ED9's which I immediately converted 8 close friends from Apple Buds (standard issue with Apple phones at the time), the Black Box (probably Maxell) Buds or the horrid Skull Candies  Just to watch them get a proper seal then see their eyes get wide and jaws drop were all the confirmation I ever needed to confirm the ED9 was a very BIG leap for my(no make that all) of my music listening friends Even though a few of them have moved on and up they still thank me for opening their eyes (more like ears) but you get the gist





Barusu Lamperouge said:


> For me still there aren't any IEM that can match ED9 for $8-10. They conveniently blow past the competition. Certainly is in my top 3 KZs along side BA10 and ZSN.



I am new to the KZ party but am pretty much all-in as a fanboi.   At 10 euro, of course I've added an ED9 to the cart for the next assault on my bank card. Waiting on the CCA 24 to drop at any moment here.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Precisely, hahahaha. MH series is damn good but getting a legit piece and also moving away from the J cable is troublesome.
> 
> If it was as easily available as ED9 then yes there are two IEMs in that price that punch way above their weight.


Now we have Moondrop Quarks $12.99 and Tanchjim Tanya $23.99 new comers, I wonder how does Quarks compared to ED9/MH755


----------



## r31ya

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I remember at one point that the cult of JVC Marshmallow was legion.  They seem to have faded away (as they deserve).  Never liked those but the hype was strong, like the Sony's. The thing about Sony - my kid still has their xtrabass buds we bought for them as a stocking stuffer circa 2012. I think they were the MDR-XB50 if memory serves correctly.


Sony ExtraBass, like the namesake it has way too much bass that covers the rest of the sounds.
Good thing is there is proper detail and good tone underneath that overwhelming bass.

Some dude over reddit points out that they could EQ the bass down and get that good sound underneath without being bothered by the bass


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 28, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Now we have Moondrop Quarks $12.99 and Tanchjim Tanya $23.99 new comers, I wonder how does Quarks compared to ED9/MH755


Those Quark's replaced all of KZs smaller treble spikes into one giant lower treble spike.  I'm skeered 



r31ya said:


> Sony ExtraBass, like the namesake it has way too much bass that covers the rest of the sounds.
> Good thing is there is proper detail and good tone underneath that overwhelming bass.
> 
> Some dude over reddit points out that they could EQ the bass down and get that good sound underneath without being bothered by the bass



eh - I thought they were pretty decent at the time. Groups of kids playing lana del rey and katy perry on repeat don't really care about any of that stuff. Mostly I wanted to get something besides apple earbuds because where we lived at the time, kids with apple buds in their ears were being targeted and robbed of their iPod devices by older kids. 

While the kids Sony's kept plugging along, I was chewing through Sennheiser CX's of different flavors every 6 months or so, which I remember as also being pretty warm signature wise, and those had terrible, awful, absolutely miserable build quality and no replaceable cables.

edit: wow, that gave me some crazy flashbacks of sitting on the tram and listening to neon indian.  ha!


----------



## RikudouGoku

AmericanSpirit said:


> I wonder how does Quarks compared to ED9/MH755


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 28, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


>


Wow ED9 super v-shape. And thanks for quarks measurements! It appears as exactly how it sounded, super steep pinna gain.


----------



## RikudouGoku

AmericanSpirit said:


> Wow ED9 super v-shape. And thanks for quarks measurements! It appears as exactly how it sounded, super steep pinna gain.


Yeah, it is from back when KZ always did V-shaped and very treble peaky tuning. 

Quarks is a more bright-neutral iem, although It kinda lacks technicalities which is a big surprise since that kind of tuning is very easy to have technicalites....
(I still need to rank it lol.)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I am new to the KZ party but am pretty much all-in as a fanboi.   At 10 euro, of course I've added an ED9 to the cart for the next assault on my bank card. Waiting on the CCA 24 to drop at any moment here.


I don't think you will be disappointed. You like BA10 so ED9 too will wow you with their performance. There's also a back grill mod to improve treble/air and foam to tame the same.


AmericanSpirit said:


> Now we have Moondrop Quarks $12.99 and Tanchjim Tanya $23.99 new comers, I wonder how does Quarks compared to ED9/MH755


When I get them I'll compare them, although I have MH750 and not MH755. Sadly mine are in transit for over a month now. ED9 is V-shaped but those tuning nozzles are definitely fun both have substantial effect on sound perception. IMO it is an IEM everyone should have in their ever growing collection. 😄

ED9 were my first KZs and that's what got me into this hobby as well. Tanya with it's Harman-ish tuning might be a bit similar comparison to ED9 but costs almost 2.5x more.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Anybody tried either of these?  Newish looking _*KZ ZSN Pro X*_ and the _*KZ ZST-X.* _Both IEM are identical in layout - 10mm DD and a single 30095 BA inserted right in the middle of ye olden cranium torture tube. Expecting a big vee sound and treble peaks. I'm keen on both, of course! 

The ZSN Pro X seems to have an updated DD and the specs deviate:

ZSN Pro X:  25 ohm, 112 dB, 7-40,000 kHz
ZST-X:         12 ohm, 107 dB, 20-20,000 kHz


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I don't think you will be disappointed. You like BA10 so ED9 too will wow you with their performance. There's also a back grill mod to improve treble/air and foam to tame the same.



Looks like a great walk-about choice, actually. I have a pair of IPX5 water resistant buds that came with my phone that weren't half bad until the cable failed. ED9 looks pretty small - maybe I can goop them up a bit to prep for the return of the wet season.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Looks like a great walk-about choice, actually. I have a pair of IPX5 water resistant buds that came with my phone that weren't half bad until the cable failed. ED9 looks pretty small - maybe I can goop them up a bit to prep for the return of the wet season.


Yes they're good utility IEM. I'm planning to get one more just in case, they get discontinued.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Anybody tried either of these?  Newish looking _*KZ ZSN Pro X*_ and the _*KZ ZST-X.* _Both IEM are identical in layout - 10mm DD and a single 30095 BA inserted right in the middle of ye olden cranium torture tube. Expecting a big vee sound and treble peaks. I'm keen on both, of course!
> 
> The ZSN Pro X seems to have an updated DD and the specs deviate:
> 
> ...


I had KZ ZSN which as per numerous impressions on here is not that different from the Pro X version.

It is the 3rd iteration of KZ V-shaped signature that eventually evolved in to the sound of ZS (ZSX and ZAX) series and started moving away from pre 2018 sharp KZ V (ED, AT series, BA/AS series). Not sure how much it helps but I hope it gives you some indication.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 30, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Anybody tried either of these?  Newish looking _*KZ ZSN Pro X*_ and the _*KZ ZST-X.* _Both IEM are identical in layout - 10mm DD and a single 30095 BA inserted right in the middle of ye olden cranium torture tube. Expecting a big vee sound and treble peaks. I'm keen on both, of course!
> 
> The ZSN Pro X seems to have an updated DD and the specs deviate:
> 
> ...


I did with ZSN Pro X, typical KZ harsh V with no change from old generations, it’s shelved. But if you like those harsh V, the KZ 30095, it is right thing to look.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Aug 30, 2021)

Thanks, fellas. Hmm ... sounds a lot like unnecessary brutality. 

edit:

I asked because I was reading a review earlier on the Reecho Spring, which also uses same tweeter model. Penon's store describes it as a 1DD and 2BA setup, but the description is not clear:



> Equipped with a 8mm dynamic unit with a coaxial sound structure developed by REECHO, and a BRC30095 high-frequency balanced armature unit blessing. The dynamic and balanced armature are independently frequency-divided, bringing incredible incredible scalability of 10kHz-20kHz



So how is it that Reecho gets reviewed as "bright" and KZ is commonly known as "piercing"? Is it KZ's house brand that's just hotter, or is it the fact that the BA sits in the nozzle I wonder.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 30, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Anybody tried either of these?  Newish looking _*KZ ZSN Pro X*_ and the _*KZ ZST-X.* _Both IEM are identical in layout - 10mm DD and a single 30095 BA inserted right in the middle of ye olden cranium torture tube. Expecting a big vee sound and treble peaks. I'm keen on both, of course!
> 
> The ZSN Pro X seems to have an updated DD and the specs deviate:
> 
> ...


I have  ZSN Pro X.
At the time, where I got them, it was thought that they have XUN drivers (now we know that they don't).
Mine (and overall, I beleive) impression of Pro X was quite mute/meh. Too powerful bass and some disconnect between DD and BA drivers. I definitely prefer good old ZSN, ZSN pro and CA4 to ZSN Pro X.

Pro X became a nozzle donor to one of my ASX pairs 

CSN are definitely better as well, and DQ6 even more so to my ears.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Thanks, fellas. Hmm ... sounds a lot like unnecessary brutality.
> 
> edit:
> 
> ...


Most hybrids that feature 30095 it is placed in the nozzle. And, that placement inherently doesn't mean that it is going to have piercing/bright treble. As I learnt from BQEYZ KB100 that also features the same BA in the nozzle but has one of the smoothest trebles for a hybrid under $50.

KZ's peaks are more or less centred around the female poison zone of upper mids and treble. So many westerners find them piercing and harsh. Also, ZSN Pro X won't have more treble than BA10 that's what my assumption is because pre 2018 KZ was hotter than ZSN and it's subsequent iterations


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Aug 30, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Thanks, fellas. Hmm ... sounds a lot like unnecessary brutality.
> 
> edit:
> 
> I asked because I was reading a review earlier on the Reecho Spring, which also uses same tweeter model. Penon's store describes it as a 1DD and 2BA setup, but the description is not clear:









The KZ’s old 30095 tuning got some unique spikes with 10db amplitudes, so when it comes to play modern mixed tracks this spike could get aggressively piercing, for acoustics tracks it will not be as piercing as digital tracks, but the sound of high pitch resonance or cymbals decay will sound grainy or unnatural to my impression.

Although, I did like old KZ V though, ZS5 is still entertaining. It’s like McDonald’s french fries, pretty addictive, but not a thing you can continuously eating for ages.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

PhonoPhi said:


> I have  ZSN Pro X.
> At the time, where I got them, it was thought that they have XUN drivers (now we know that they don't).
> Mine (and overall, I beleive) impression of Pro X was quite mute/meh. Too powerful bass and some disconnect between DD and BA drivers. I definitely prefer good old ZSN, ZSN pro and CA4 to ZSN Pro X.
> 
> ...


To my understanding, the innovative aspect of XUN driver is that it has an unique internal acoustic camber that enhances, or turboboost, bass resonance with that structure. So that it could serve as a stand-alone bass frequencies only proprietary unit, free up the shell design, let BAs handling the higher registers.

Which enabled KZ to move away from old style of “addition” style sound building, which is based on dynamic driver handling all frequencies with BAs handling extra detailing. But this style of “addition” could easily get messed, the incoherence was the neck.  

The XUN driver enabled KZ to re-design their new sound building based on philosophy of “subtraction”, ZAS is a good example, they changed the way of design and tuning the sound signature. The result was less spikes, more cohesive IEMs, and more comfortable shells👍

I like KZ because they never surrendered, even if they fail, they kept coming back, try and error spirit is something I admire of KZ.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

AmericanSpirit said:


> Which enabled KZ to move away from old style of “addition” style sound building, which is based on dynamic driver handling all frequencies with BAs handling extra detailing. But this style of “addition” could easily get messed, the incoherence was the neck.



Yeah, I think they've suffered from cheap shell materials and no attention to early shell design on the impact of the sound. Some small tweaks in the casings would have likely contributed to a much better outcome. I am going to try the ZAS based on your recc and their description on the redesign for blending the output from its 7 BAs over the ZAX.  

Here's a fun little comparison IEM, also widely known as being vee shaped and ringing it at $900. I'm not here to rag on this company - I expect I'd like the product .. (just am not going to pay $900 for one). 

Manufacturer provided description:

"One balanced armature and one dynamic driver. No cross-over, no complications.  We’ve found these distilled pairings reproduce sound more faithfully, with improved resolution and cohesion than those with over-complicated cross-over schemes.

The result is a detailed yet natural sound. They are resolving and emotionally engaging—a true hybrid in design and sonic presentation."

 Accolades from headfi about above IEM:

+ Great Bass - Detailed & dense
+ Very Fun sounding
+ Fun v-shaped tune with good technical capabilities


As for the ZST, RTNGS.COM says of the ZST's bottom end - "High-bass, responsible for warmth, is overemphasized by more than 3dB, making the bass of these headphones a bit boomy and muddy.  "   check the graph ... they are actually less subbass than the higher cost IEM. 

Our trusty headfiers basically said:  "these rock.  get some."  

"yes, you are spending twice as much in the cable than the ZiEM, but for $60 you will end up with a pair of IEMs which, to my ears, sound better than, for example, $180 Etymotic ER3XRs"  

"I've had a pair for about a month ... using them with the Comply foam tips and man ... they are astonishing. I recently lost my Shure SE530's and honestly? It didn't hurt a bit as these are 90% of the Shures ... LOL at the $17.00 price tag. Man ... " 

Campfire Dorado bass vs. KZ's infamous "pinna gain".


----------



## riodgarp

did anyone here trying knowles acoustic damper with their kz? 
and also I intersted with as10, are this iem has different sq from dq6? I prefer warmish sound sig


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 1, 2021)

riodgarp said:


> did anyone here trying knowles acoustic damper with their kz?
> and also I intersted with as10, are this iem has different sq from dq6? I prefer warmish sound sig


AS10 can be called warm, definitely different from DQ6. While the later is all-DD, it is more energetic with more treble.

AS10 are the first KZ all-BA IEM, a younger sibling to BA10. AS10 arex warmish yet resolving, granularity of old BAs is there, the BA bass is gorgeous to my ears, while tonality is definitely skewed (cello sounding like double basses may be a blasphemy to some, to me it is just a miracle )
AS10 made me a KZ fan, and I still come back to  good old AS10 often (while the second back-up pair is unwrapped, KZs are reliable ).

An objective testament to AS10 is that its price dropped the least of KZ IEMs from original $45 three+ years ago.

Closest in some aspects to AS10 recent IEM are AST.
AST are again most un-KZ KZ, no more sparkling V, mighty BA bass. So if you are concerned with treble - AST offer it smooth (if not too much contained) plus beautiful resolution of upper mids from their new BA array.
Another IEM to consider along these lines are CCA CA16 (C16 as well actually, they have treble filters).

Using Knowles dampers sound like an interesting idea, but I have not heard of anyone trying it. The main "offender", 30095, is really tiny.
Dampening with foam/cotton in the nozzle is the most effective and widely used strategy/approach.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

PhonoPhi said:


> AS10 can be called warm, definitely different from DQ6. While the later is all-DD, it is more energetic with more treble.
> 
> AS10 are the first KZ all-BA IEM, a younger sibling to BA10. AS10 arex warmish yet resolving, granularity of old BAs is there, the BA bass is gorgeous to my ears, while tonality is definitely skewed (cello sounding like double basses may be a blasphemy to some, to me it is just a miracle )
> AS10 made me a KZ fan, and I still come back to  good old AS10 often (while the second back-up pair is unwrapped, KZs are reliable ).
> ...


Agree, the AS10 was my hook to KZ too, ZS6 called my attention by its 1BA+2DD, fun V-tuned tonality, then AS10 with mighty bass, and another entertaining IEM with a cost of fractions of cheapest Shure/UE. That was mind blowing for someone thought for $50 all you could get was a pair of Panasonic /AKG / Sennheiser /Sony’s low cost single DD earbuds /IEM.

Yes AS10 / AST aligned on same course for that sense, it’s mighty bass, with Diffusion Field target (focused upper mid, with rolled off treble). Sadly this tuning is kind self-contradictory, the bass cancels out the diffusion, but that’s the thing exits, multi driver could help to ease that bass bleed and making each frequency bands to stand out. 

If anyone likes AS10/AST tuning, there is an endgame, GS Audio released full BA model with this AST approach, with ST10, it’s less bass elevated, but still the floor is near bass-head region. The DF target curve enabled ST10 to produce an extremely wide diffusion field too. This ST10 is composed by 10BA (Sonion for bass up till upper mid, Knowles TWFK 4BA for super tweeters), and is a tech monster.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Agree, the AS10 was my hook to KZ too, ZS6 called my attention by its 1BA+2DD, fun V-tuned tonality, then AS10 with mighty bass, and another entertaining IEM with a cost of fractions of cheapest Shure/UE. That was mind blowing for someone thought for $50 all you could get was a pair of Panasonic /AKG / Sennheiser /Sony’s low cost single DD earbuds /IEM.
> 
> Yes AS10 / AST aligned on same course for that sense, it’s mighty bass, with Diffusion Field target (focused upper mid, with rolled off treble). Sadly this tuning is kind self-contradictory, the bass cancels out the diffusion, but that’s the thing exits, multi driver could help to ease that bass bleed and making each frequency bands to stand out.
> 
> If anyone likes AS10/AST tuning, there is an endgame, GS Audio released full BA model with this AST approach, with ST10, it’s less bass elevated, but still the floor is near bass-head region. The DF target curve enabled ST10 to produce an extremely wide diffusion field too. This ST10 is composed by 10BA (Sonion for bass up till upper mid, Knowles TWFK 4BA for super tweeters), and is a tech monster.


This ST10 is actually (I think) also known as L12 or L12P made by Leisurely Audio. Not cheap...mmmm...


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> This ST10 is actually (I think) also known as L12 or L12P made by Leisurely Audio. Not cheap...mmmm...


I think the GT12 would probably be the more direct upgrade from the AST in terms of price, since it's only about twice the cost of AST instead of close to four times. The main difference is the use of custom-tuned Bellsing drivers for the HF and UHF drivers instead of the combination of Sonion and Knowles in the ST10. The ST10 also uses Sonion 37 series drivers for mids instead of  the Sonion 33 series drivers. Both use Sonion 38 series drivers for sub-bass and mid-bass, so performance in that area should be spectacular on both.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> This ST10 is actually (I think) also known as L12 or L12P made by Leisurely Audio. Not cheap...mmmm...


ST10 is $430 and 10BA, is that Leisurely Audio L12 really ST10 mod? I see they listed as 12BAs. But surely it could be sourced from GS Audio.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

mndless said:


> I think the GT12 would probably be the more direct upgrade from the AST in terms of price, since it's only about twice the cost of AST instead of close to four times. The main difference is the use of custom-tuned Bellsing drivers for the HF and UHF drivers instead of the combination of Sonion and Knowles in the ST10. The ST10 also uses Sonion 37 series drivers for mids instead of  the Sonion 33 series drivers. Both use Sonion 38 series drivers for sub-bass and mid-bass, so performance in that area should be spectacular on both.


Yea but the sound signature on GT12 is rather flat compared to ST10 or AST, so for that I was referring if someone really looking a same course of sound reproduction ST10 is the endgame.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Sep 1, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> ST10 is $430 and 10BA, is that Leisurely Audio L12 really ST10 mod? I see they listed as 12BAs. But surely it could be sourced from GS Audio.


Just took a closer look, that LP12 is a GT12($230)’s mod, it looks very similar in terms of FR response and exactly same driver composition (sonion 38, sonion 33, and bellsing TWFK ), 15000 TWD goes to $541USD, wow what a rip off from $230(and if sourced as OEM, it surely will go $170ish)




ST10:
Sub-woofer: Sonion 38 AcuPass (2BA)
Bass-Mid: Sonion 37 (2BA)
Mid-Treble: Sonion 2389D (2BA)
Super Tweeter: Knowles SWFK (4BA)

GT12:
Sub-woofer: Sonion 38 AcuPass | 2BA
Lower Mid: Sonion 33 | 2BA
Upper Mid: 2 x GS Custom TWFK | 4BA
Super Tweeters: 2 x GS custom TWFK |


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> ST10 is $430 and 10BA, is that Leisurely Audio L12 really ST10 mod? I see they listed as 12BAs. But surely it could be sourced from GS Audio.


No I mean they are THE SAME company. Didn't look into the ST10 and I thought it has 12 BAs


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Just took a closer look, that LP12 is a GT12($230)’s mod, it looks very similar in terms of FR response and exactly same driver composition (sonion 38, sonion 33, and bellsing TWFK ), 15000 TWD goes to $541USD, wow what a rip off from $230(and if sourced as OEM, it surely will go $170ish)
> 
> 
> ST10:
> ...


The L12 has been around for a while and it has Knowles instead of Bellsing BAs.


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> No I mean they are THE SAME company. Didn't look into the ST10 and I thought it has 12 BAs


It's entirely possible. GS Audio was originally just an OEM/ODM company for other brands and built sets to their specifications, tuned to their preferred house sound.


----------



## mndless

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea but the sound signature on GT12 is rather flat compared to ST10 or AST, so for that I was referring if someone really looking a same course of sound reproduction ST10 is the endgame.


You'll have to post the graph comparison between the ST10 and GT12 once your GT12 arrives. Based on the graphs they posted on Facebook, the GT12 does have a bit more bass gain than their little unlabeled graph might indicate, but it's certainly not the bass monstrosity that the AST is purported to be. I'm certainly looking forward to your thoughts on the GT12, since it is so comparatively affordable for a set with that many drivers hand assembled in a full resin shell like that. Especially since they are using name brand drivers for the bass and mids of their sound equation.


----------



## SybilLance

Near-perfect Eartips









Large BGVP Type W01 Eartips. Made of food grade nipple silicone that's very soft—as soft as, if not softer, than the SpinFit CP360.  

The latter is designed for TWS in-ear headphones with their softness, reduced, ergonomic form factor and ability to flex in all directions (hence, the 360 appellation). In my case, this very ability to freely articulate while seemingly embedded at the external auditory meatus of my ears is also the reason why certain movements of the jaw or perhaps the mimetic muscles would cause the seal to be broken after some time. The result, the sound is altered. 

I've also noticed this with my DIY attempt towards an analogue for the CP360, consisting of inexpensive generic soft silicone wide-bore eartips (50 pairs per $1.00) and tiny silicone O-rings (photos of which I've previously posted here with the KZ ZAX-AZ09 combo), albeit to a lesser degree.

These BGVP eartips have translucent white outer portions and black inner tubes, also very soft. I first tried the medium sized tips because I thought the large ones would be just that—too large. The seal and isolation the medium tips provide are the best I've ever come across in my limited experience. The plunger-like vacuum effect is also the worst. It turned out the large tips are quite ideal for me. The very soft silicone somehow conforms to the shape of the meatus of my ears to provide an ideal, and surprisingly secure seal. All my efforts to intentionally dislodge them, doing all sorts of facial contortions theatre actors usually do as exercises, proved futile. 

Such seal, coupled with the wide opening of the tips—at least 6.5 mm—enabled the sound to fully enter my ear canal, unhindered. Contrary to my initial misgivings about what I deemed will be a corresponding loss of bass and a very bright character, all elements of the audible spectrum are fully discernible as a coherent whole. It was transformative.

I have now experienced what it is to say that as regards in-ear headphones, next to your in-ears themselves, the most important thing to consider would be your choice of eartips.

I got mine locally, 2 pairs per set with free plastic box at ~$1.37 per set. Got 2 sets, 1 medium 1 large. The seller included an extra pair for each set as freebies. These sell for only $0.01 per pair at AliExpress.

I'm most fortunate these large BGVP W01s achieved a serendipitous Goldilocks pairing with my KZ ZAX and my Moondrop Aria. 





Caveat:
As mentioned, these BGVP W01s are really soft. That, and the wide bore of the tube may be problematic for in-ears with relatively smaller nozzles and with nozzles that have no flanges, like the Moondrop Aria. Furthermore, the surface of the Aria is almost Teflon-like in smoothness. During the first few days, every time I would remove the Aria the tips would remain stuck in my ears. After a week or so of constant use, the eartips' tubes have somehow adhered to the Aria's nozzles. I don't know. Maybe they've contracted. Perhaps sheer persistence has its reward. Although I still take care when removing the Aria from my ears, the eartips don't get stuck there anymore.

PS(sst):
Did I also say that the seal made it the best in noise isolation I've ever experienced among in-ears, didn't I?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SybilLance said:


> Near-perfect Eartips
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like them my only gripe with them is that they are not at all secure for canal type IEM as they drop off a lot due to their short stem.


----------



## SybilLance

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I like them my only gripe with them is that they are not at all secure for canal type IEM as they drop off a lot due to their short stem.


You're right. The inner tube is a tad short. Fortunately that problem I had with the Aria somehow resolved itself. ☺️


----------



## lushmelody

SybilLance said:


> Near-perfect Eartips
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I consider BGVP eartips offerings the best on Ali rn. Realistic priced compared to Spinfits for the same or even better sound and comfort. I wish I could afford Jap-fi eartips (Final, Radius, JVC...), they are painfully expensive to my country bc of shipping costs.

By the way, BQEYZ is selling on Ali their new eartips introduced by Summer, they also seem like a great deal (waiting my order).


----------



## 4ceratops

lushmelody said:


> I consider BGVP eartips offerings the best on Ali rn. Realistic priced compared to Spinfits for the same or even better sound and comfort. I wish I could afford Jap-fi eartips (Final, Radius, JVC...), they are painfully expensive to my country bc of shipping costs.
> 
> By the way, BQEYZ is selling on Ali their new eartips introduced by Summer, they also seem like a great deal (waiting my order).


Could you post the BQEYZ link, pleas...


----------



## lushmelody

4ceratops said:


> Could you post the BQEYZ link, pleas...


Yep. Here it is

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqgGFL9


----------



## 4ceratops

lushmelody said:


> Yep. Here it is
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqgGFL9


Muito obrigado.


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Sep 3, 2021)

how does KZ AZ09 HD compares to TRN BT20S PRO in terms of bluetooth range and battery life?
planning to use it with ZAX...


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> When I get them I'll compare them, although I have MH750 and not MH755.


So after spending some 20 odd hours with Quarks I can say that both are different beasts altogether despite being in the same price bracket.

Quarks is ruler flat whereas MH750 is more universal with it's Harman-ish tuning. One thing where I prefer Quarks over MH750 is timbre. Moondrop has done a great job to have that musical timbre at this price. With appropriate tips Quarks have that chameleonic ability to sound as you want.

So it's matter of preference if one wants a fun sound then MH750 is the way to go whereas Quarks give a good taste of neutrality at a dirt cheap cost.


----------



## IEMbiker (Sep 3, 2021)

Received CCA NRA today.
Initial impression:
Sound great OOTB. Another great tuning by CCA.
String instruments sound sweet, soundstage like DQ6, positioning, and separation is good too.
The 3 magnetic DD bass sound like the Xun driver, may be better

Sound so good listening to Nightwish - Walking in the Air


----------



## voicemaster

ZAXon 7 said:


> how does KZ AZ09 HD compares to TRN BT20S PRO in terms of bluetooth range and battery life?
> planning to use it with ZAX...


Mine AZ09 sucks. Connection drop alot even when the transmitter like 1ft away from it. 
What I like from AZ09 better than BT20s pro are:
1. Much compact size, hard shell case and better IEM placement inside the case. On the bt20s pro, your iem will get squished out and if the case got crushed by something quite heavy, it can break the iem.
2. The module is smaller and lighter than bt20s pro.
3. The fit on the AZ09 is better and also it doesn't move around much if you are running or jumping than bt20s pro. The bt20s pro seems loose and just hang there. I did try bench pressing with it and the module since it is heavy, it tends to hang loose.
4. The AZ09 has higher output than bt20s pro, but this can also make the hiss more pronounce in sensitive iem.
Now for bluetooth range, the bt20s pro wins by a margin. It has AptX instead of just sbc and aac. Battery life from bt20s pro is around 6 hours+, can't say about the AZ09 as I haven't had the chance to try it for longer than 30 minutes and had to take it off because of connection dropping.
From my experience from KZ bluetooth anything, their connection is kind of suck imho. I have the bluetooth cable (HD and non HD) and the connection will cut out when you hold the module in your hand even when your source like besides it. Tried to cupped both my ears while using the AZ09 and true enough, the connection will cut out.


----------



## IEMbiker

voicemaster said:


> Mine AZ09 sucks. Connection drop alot even when the transmitter like 1ft away from it.
> What I like from AZ09 better than BT20s pro are:
> 1. Much compact size, hard shell case and better IEM placement inside the case. On the bt20s pro, your iem will get squished out and if the case got crushed by something quite heavy, it can break the iem.
> 2. The module is smaller and lighter than bt20s pro.
> ...


I guess you must have got the lemon AZ09. Mine can connect even 20ft away from my phone in an open area. Battery life is about 6 hour+ with medium volume at high-performance mode. 
One thing is that when I received the AZ09, one unit was fully charged and one is not. When connected to the phone it will show 100% and one pair will die off pretty fast and show low batt. What I did was paired only one side to see the battery level and then found out the problem. Later I just charge 1 by 1 and the issue was solved.  
The SQ is pretty good for the price.


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 3, 2021)

IEMbiker said:


> Received CCA NRA today.
> Initial impression:
> Sound great OOTB. Another great tuning by CCA.
> String instruments sound sweet, soundstage like DQ6, positioning, and separation is good too.
> ...



I think this NRA beats DQ6 in every single aspect. This NRA is closer to CKX level sound, maybe even better in some aspects. The NRA has fuller vocal for women voice and a good heft on male low vocal. I was afraid of sibilance, but from my playlist, I haven't experienced it once even when listening to sibilance prone song. This NRA is really ridiculously good.

This song is very prone to sibilance even at the start with the cymbals and the scream.


----------



## voicemaster

IEMbiker said:


> I guess you must have got the lemon AZ09. Mine can connect even 20ft away from my phone in an open area. Battery life is about 6 hour+ with medium volume at high-performance mode.
> One thing is that when I received the AZ09, one unit was fully charged and one is not. When connected to the phone it will show 100% and one pair will die off pretty fast and show low batt. What I did was paired only one side to see the battery level and then found out the problem. Later I just charge 1 by 1 and the issue was solved.
> The SQ is pretty good for the price.


Maybe, but returning it thru AE is a PITA. Thankfully it is cheap enough so I don't really worry too much.


----------



## Sebulr

IEMbiker said:


> I guess you must have got the lemon AZ09. Mine can connect even 20ft away from my phone in an open area. Battery life is about 6 hour+ with medium volume at high-performance mode...





voicemaster said:


> Maybe, but returning it thru AE is a PITA. Thankfully it is cheap enough so I don't really worry too much.


Mine are fine too, the only snag with mine are they tend to switch off after  1 second press, for some reason. The touch controls are wonky. Better than my trn bt20 though as the left ear ear on those has skip forward as well as the right. And personally I can't tell the difference between apt X and aac. 

Mine do hiss a little more than the trn bt20. Although I've heard worse. I'm pointing at you old Sony MP3 players with my old ultimate ears  in about 2008. Think it was an impedance mismatch. They did come with a resistor plug which I still use occasionally with low resistance items. This is less of a problem than it once was.


----------



## Head-dicted

Finally does anyone know if there is a audiophile's  model in the KZ model community? 
Tess ting and comparing with the Soundmagic  SM11c my 'model earphones' EDX stands well with SM10 but not ZSN venif the range is not so high as SM11


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Head-dicted said:


> Finally does anyone know if there is a audiophile's  model in the KZ model community?
> Tess ting and comparing with the Soundmagic  SM11c my 'model earphones' EDX stands well with SM10 but not ZSN venif the range is not so high as SM11


KZ AST (you should EQ it) is at the moment the highest resolving model from KZ.


----------



## baskingshark

Head-dicted said:


> Finally does anyone know if there is a audiophile's  model in the KZ model community?
> Tess ting and comparing with the Soundmagic  SM11c my 'model earphones' EDX stands well with SM10 but not ZSN venif the range is not so high as SM11



By "audiophile", do you mean something balanced or neutralish?

Most KZs are V shaped actually, you might have to look elsewhere at other brands for more neutralish tunings.


----------



## r31ya

Head-dicted said:


> Finally does anyone know if there is a audiophile's  model in the KZ model community?
> Tess ting and comparing with the Soundmagic  SM11c my 'model earphones' EDX stands well with SM10 but not ZSN venif the range is not so high as SM11





baskingshark said:


> By "audiophile", do you mean something balanced or neutralish?
> 
> Most KZs are V shaped actually, you might have to look elsewhere at other brands for more neutralish tunings.



Yup, depend what you need for that "audiophile" thingy. Like a car, do you want offroad car, track focused car, or a luxury family car?

Graph or sound profile wise, KZ have tendency to be V shaped.
Sound Details? KZ have plenty trough its tons of drivers per ear.
Sound stage? Vary, depend on the type.

KZ have quite the range nowadays, how much is your budget and what kind of sound you want?
Or at least what type of music you listen to?


----------



## Head-dicted

r31ya said:


> Yup, depend what you need for that "audiophile" thingy. Like a car, do you want offroad car, track focused car, or a luxury family car?
> 
> Graph or sound profile wise, KZ have tendency to be V shaped.
> Sound Details? KZ have plenty trough its tons of drivers per ear.
> ...




I have a lot o mp3 in my mp player with various music kinds adn with various 'studio audio curves' most of them trebly . The soundmagic is nearly neutral and look for something of the same in KZ series with higher freq response


----------



## SybilLance (Sep 4, 2021)

ZAXon 7 said:


> how does KZ AZ09 HD compares to TRN BT20S PRO in terms of bluetooth range and battery life?
> planning to use it with ZAX...


Hi! I don't have the BT20S Pro but I can say the KZ AZ09's battery life is as advertised. I've been listening to it attached to the KZ ZAX almost everyday for over 3 months now at moderate volumes and every time I get around 6 hours +/- with rare or no dropouts. This combo with the large BGVP W01 eartips leaves nothing else to be desired. My transmitter is a Poco X3 Pro through the Neutron player. Whether I'm in the kitchen, in the garden, doing crafts, curled up with a good book or scaling heights with my music or just drifting along with it during quiet late nights with my husband beside me—it's what I use. I think the Aria is getting morose from neglect.

Edit: Forgot—the range I believe is more than 10 meters.


----------



## ZAXon 7 (Sep 4, 2021)

thank you all!!!

KZAZ09 seems to be a good way to go for my wife's casual listening mostly through phone/spotify and phone calls during work keeping hands free or tv watching at night...
Another question, probably a silly one... is it safe to use a 2pin cable or KZAZ09 2 pin connection on the zax instead of the KZ C pin? i recently got GK10 which has 2 pin and if it's safe maybe i can use AZ09 on both?


----------



## Sebulr

SybilLance said:


> Hi! I don't have the BT20S Pro but I can say the KZ AZ09's battery life is as advertised. I've been listening to it attached to the KZ ZAX almost everyday for over 3 months now at moderate volumes and every time I get around 6 hours +/- with rare or no dropouts. This combo with the large BGVP W01 eartips leaves nothing else to be desired. My transmitter is a Poco X3 Pro through the Neutron player. Whether I'm in the kitchen, in the garden, doing crafts, curled up with a good book or scaling heights with my music or just drifting along with it during quiet late nights with my husband beside me—it's what I use. I think the Aria is getting morose from neglect.
> 
> Edit: Forgot—the range I believe is more than 10 meters.


That's pretty much me too. Same phone, but kz zsx, and power poweramp, or hiby player. I also get 6 hours and a decent signal. The only drop outs I get is when they over zealously "pair off" when I pause the music. The accent on the voice makes me smile however.


----------



## voicemaster

Head-dicted said:


> Finally does anyone know if there is a audiophile's  model in the KZ model community?
> Tess ting and comparing with the Soundmagic  SM11c my 'model earphones' EDX stands well with SM10 but not ZSN venif the range is not so high as SM11


Why not try the CCA NRA? The mid and treble are the focus in this IEM. Bass is not too much elevated as other KZ new model.


----------



## Sebulr

ZAXon 7 said:


> thank you all!!!
> 
> KZAZ09 seems to be a good way to go for my wife's casual listening mostly through phone/spotify and phone calls during work keeping hands free or tv watching at night...
> Another question, probably a silly one... is it safe to use a 2pin cable or KZAZ09 2 pin connection on the zax instead of the KZ C pin? i recently got GK10 which has 2 pin and if it's safe maybe i can use AZ09 on both?


You can use 2 pin cables, but the c type connectors are made out of acrylic and are fragile at least my kz zs10 pros are. They may chip away exposing the pins. I don't think the az09 will fit on the geekwold gk10 if it has normal or recessed pins. Not without use of some clippers.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> Why not try the CCA NRA? The mid and treble are the focus in this IEM. Bass is not too much elevated as other KZ new model.


What I like is that I'm using shallow large silicone ear tips (not medium), which I get the quality and quantity low sub-bass response that I need, plus the clean MID's and highs. The drivers are truly in another league for such a low, and I mean LOW price.

-Clear


----------



## voicemaster (Sep 4, 2021)

1clearhead said:


> What I like is that I'm using shallow large silicone ear tips (not medium), which I get the quality and quantity low sub-bass response that I need, plus the clean MID's and highs. The drivers are truly in another league for such a low, and I mean LOW price.
> 
> -Clear


Yes, the MST driver is really outstanding. What I love about the NRA is that you don't have to insert it deep into your ear. If you can get a nice seal using a larger eartips than you normally use, it will sound good even without shoving the whole eartips into your ear canal.
Can't imagine to get this level of sound quality for such a low price 4-5 years ago.
I just tried using the largest white silicone eartips that came with the IEM and it really changes the bass. It does add more air into the bass. I was using the Final Audio eartips and it make the bass tight and punchy.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I think I've reached the stage of my audio journey this year that it is no longer about finding the right product but shilling for the right product. And that product is the CCA NRA. 

Sadly the large sized tips aren't quite big enough for my ears. Changing to starlines closes off the nozzle and cuts just a teeeeenssyyy weeeensy bit of the treble, and sets the insertion depth a few mm further into my ear canal. I need to shop for something better I'm just not quite sure what yet that could be big enough and keep the wide bore.


----------



## voicemaster

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think I've reached the stage of my audio journey this year that it is no longer about finding the right product but shilling for the right product. And that product is the CCA NRA.
> 
> Sadly the large sized tips aren't quite big enough for my ears. Changing to starlines closes off the nozzle and cuts just a teeeeenssyyy weeeensy bit of the treble, and sets the insertion depth a few mm further into my ear canal. I need to shop for something better I'm just not quite sure what yet that could be big enough and keep the wide bore.


Maybe you can try foam tips? I did try using a TWS style foam tips (shorter than regular foam tips) and it helps to smoothened out the treble edge a bit. No difference in mid and bass from Final Audio tips. The OG eartips does elevate the bass, making the bass sound fuller.


----------



## 4ceratops

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think I've reached the stage of my audio journey this year that it is no longer about finding the right product but shilling for the right product. And that product is the CCA NRA.
> 
> Sadly the large sized tips aren't quite big enough for my ears. Changing to starlines closes off the nozzle and cuts just a teeeeenssyyy weeeensy bit of the treble, and sets the insertion depth a few mm further into my ear canal. I need to shop for something better I'm just not quite sure what yet that could be big enough and keep the wide bore.


Try BGVP W01, the L size (wide bore, 14 mm).
https://m.pl.aliexpress.com/item/10...tedetail&spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27425c0fD8xCpi


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think I've reached the stage of my audio journey this year that it is no longer about finding the right product but shilling for the right product. And that product is the CCA NRA.
> 
> Sadly the large sized tips aren't quite big enough for my ears. Changing to starlines closes off the nozzle and cuts just a teeeeenssyyy weeeensy bit of the treble, and sets the insertion depth a few mm further into my ear canal. I need to shop for something better I'm just not quite sure what yet that could be big enough and keep the wide bore.


Master Slater used to recommend this one: https://www.amazon.com/ALXCD-Powerb...eywords=iem+tips+beats&qid=1630782541&sr=8-27

The largest is 14.5 mm, nice and shallow and seal really well, even for small IEMs with a shorter nozzle.

Available in all colours as well 

Also SpinFit has CP100 plus XL, which are 14 mm: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B08Z85554X/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_3?smid=A1PC196DTT55RC&psc=1


----------



## independent

PhonoPhi said:


> I have  ZSN Pro X.
> At the time, where I got them, it was thought that they have XUN drivers (now we know that they don't).
> Mine (and overall, I beleive) impression of Pro X was quite mute/meh. Too powerful bass and some disconnect between DD and BA drivers. I definitely prefer good old ZSN, ZSN pro and CA4 to ZSN Pro X.
> 
> ...


Hi, I'm mentioned before how my ASX pair has one side with a loose connector.

Is there a non-destructive way of opening them up and fixing them? Also more importantly is the connector screwed in and is as easy as tightening the connector piece from the inside of the shell?

Thanks in advance,
Independent


----------



## ExTubeGamer

I spent some time listening to rock albums on my CCA NRA. What can I say? The bass, especially the sub-bass is better then Moondrop Starfield bass. The treble, clarity, resolution and instrument separation is much better compared to the Starfields.

Simple put: if you're ok with V-shape the NRA is better then the Starfield at a fraction of the price.


----------



## SybilLance

ZAXon 7 said:


> thank you all!!!
> 
> KZAZ09 seems to be a good way to go for my wife's casual listening mostly through phone/spotify and phone calls during work keeping hands free or tv watching at night...
> Another question, probably a silly one... is it safe to use a 2pin cable or KZAZ09 2 pin connection on the zax instead of the KZ C pin? i recently got GK10 which has 2 pin and if it's safe maybe i can use AZ09 on both?


You have the "B" Pin AZ09 like this?




I wonder if it will be an exact fit for the Moondrop Aria. 🤔 It's recommended for the SSP and KXXS.


A Shopee seller is offering it for only ₱765 PhP which is ~$15.34 US. If it would fit, the temptation to get a mate for the Aria would be overwhelming. ☺️


SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think I've reached the stage of my audio journey this year that it is no longer about finding the right product but shilling for the right product. And that product is the CCA NRA.
> 
> Sadly the large sized tips aren't quite big enough for my ears. Changing to starlines closes off the nozzle and cuts just a teeeeenssyyy weeeensy bit of the treble, and sets the insertion depth a few mm further into my ear canal. I need to shop for something better I'm just not quite sure what yet that could be big enough and keep the wide bore.


I echo the suggestion of @4ceratops by dint of transcendent personal experience. 👍🏻😁


----------



## PhonoPhi

independent said:


> Hi, I'm mentioned before how my ASX pair has one side with a loose connector.
> 
> Is there a non-destructive way of opening them up and fixing them? Also more importantly is the connector screwed in and is as easy as tightening the connector piece from the inside of the shell?
> 
> ...


I have not opened ASX, sorry.
Actually, one of the reasons of not opening is that the connector goes through the plate, which is harder for asembly/disassembly, and quite rare in my experience.

In my case of fixing loose connectors (TRI & TRN) I just used cyanoacrylate glue. Good epoxies can work better. It felt much less risky than opening the plate, and can be repeated.


----------



## Sebulr

SybilLance said:


> You have the "B" Pin AZ09 like this?
> 
> I wonder if it will be an exact fit for the Moondrop Aria. 🤔 It's recommended for the SSP and KXXS.
> A Shopee seller is offering it for only ₱765 PhP which is ~$15.34 US. If it would fit, the temptation to get a mate for the Aria would be overwhelming. ☺️
> ...


I didn't realise they made a straight pin b variant. That's more universal. I might snag a pair.


----------



## saldsald

independent said:


> Hi, I'm mentioned before how my ASX pair has one side with a loose connector.
> 
> Is there a non-destructive way of opening them up and fixing them? Also more importantly is the connector screwed in and is as easy as tightening the connector piece from the inside of the shell?
> 
> ...


Ask @IEMbiker

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3691#post-16370513

And I am sure it is quite easy to open up the ASX.


----------



## IEMbiker (Sep 5, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Ask @IEMbiker
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3691#post-16370513
> 
> And I am sure it is quite easy to open up the ASX.


Hi @independent

I heat up the face plate to soften the glue using a hairdryer. Then slip a penknife at the connector side to pry open the face plate slowly and carefully.
As in the previous post picture, the connector is secure with 2 Torx screws.
Hope this helps.

Cheers.


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think I've reached the stage of my audio journey this year that it is no longer about finding the right product but shilling for the right product. And that product is the CCA NRA.
> 
> Sadly the large sized tips aren't quite big enough for my ears. Changing to starlines closes off the nozzle and cuts just a teeeeenssyyy weeeensy bit of the treble, and sets the insertion depth a few mm further into my ear canal. I need to shop for something better I'm just not quite sure what yet that could be big enough and keep the wide bore.


Spiral Dots may be the answer.


----------



## raccoon city (Sep 5, 2021)

I have ginormous ear holes and use these ear tips:
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...holesale&isFreeShip=y&SortType=default&page=1

I actually bought red and blue ones, and put the red one in my right ear and the blue one in my left ear.


----------



## Head-dicted

Sebulr said:


> I didn't realize they made a straight pin b variant. That's more universal. I might snag a pair.


Practically both C and B types fit to any model. i have received "upgrade cable" for the EDX that fits perfectly  for the ZSN  
The TRN fits also ...


----------



## MacAttack7

independent said:


> Hi, I'm mentioned before how my ASX pair has one side with a loose connector.
> 
> Is there a non-destructive way of opening them up and fixing them? Also more importantly is the connector screwed in and is as easy as tightening the connector piece from the inside of the shell?
> 
> ...


I have an ASF with that problem. 
I tried some gorilla glue but there wasn't enough surface area for it to hold, so it's back to loose and wiggling.
Hopefully it doesn't affect anything, but it does drive my OCD brain a little crazy.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Thanks for all the tips advice!  Based on my luck with starlines I've been thinking that the spiral dots would work for me. I am trying to transition away from foams because the cheap ones are done inside of a couple of weeks, maybe less. They also diminish my darling treble bumps which I no likey.  Got some shopping to do.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ´s NRA:





https://www.instagram.com/p/CTYfmRoPl6r/?utm_medium=share_sheet


Guess they didnt wait to get more feedback from the NRA alpha testers lol.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Sep 6, 2021)

OhhhhHhhh SNAP.  sorry, wallet  

edit:  that shell design is giving me some strong _Count Dracula_ vibes.


----------



## voicemaster

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ´s NRA:
> 
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CTYfmRoPl6r/?utm_medium=share_sheet
> ...


That's how KZ roll!! Look nicer than the CCA NRA aesthetic wise.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ´s NRA:
> 
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CTYfmRoPl6r/?utm_medium=share_sheet
> ...


That's quicker than my estimate of 45 days! Dang! But the plus side is them connectors look a bit more sturdy.


----------



## G777

voicemaster said:


> That's how KZ roll!! Look nicer than the CCA NRA aesthetic wise.


Yeah... too bad I've already ordered the NRA 😭


----------



## PhonoPhi

G777 said:


> Yeah... too bad I've already ordered the NRA 😭


Still better than me ordering a second pair of NRA yesterslday - just to disassemble - really curious what's inside them, EST/MST drivers.


----------



## r31ya

So now we wait for the *KZ ZS11*, the DD+"EST"+BA tribid


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> So now we wait for the *KZ ZS11*, the DD+"EST"+BA tribid



Based on my experiences here with the NRA, I'd pre-order that. I'm going to have to change my username to KZ_ShillinVillain.


----------



## 1clearhead

G777 said:


> Yeah... too bad I've already ordered the NRA 😭


Ah, I wouldn't worry! This brother and sister company always seems to compete with one another. So far, the NRA are really good. So, let's see what the ZEX brings to the table. I'm sure you'll like the NRA and the ZEX alike for their different flavors and sonic coherency.

-Clear


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Head-dicted said:


> I have a lot o mp3 in my mp player with various music kinds adn with various 'studio audio curves' most of them trebly . The soundmagic is nearly neutral and look for something of the same in KZ series with higher freq response


If you are planning to use mp3 or mp player's equalizer, KZ AST and ZAS pretty much could offer very entertaining sound.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ´s NRA:
> 
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CTYfmRoPl6r/?utm_medium=share_sheet
> ...


lol ZEX!!! the spelling...


----------



## AmericanSpirit

G777 said:


> Yeah... too bad I've already ordered the NRA 😭


Another wallet and storage space impact....


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Just my luck. I joined the NRA and am now being punished with a zexless marriage.

(still no sign on AliExpress ... imma get my coat ...   )


----------



## nihil23

Does anybody tried New kz edx pro? Seems like it have new dd like in CCA NRA


----------



## saldsald (Sep 8, 2021)

Asked CCA for more info on the CA24, seems it will have all the same BAs as the AST. I am really curious if such config will bring back some treble.   
Edit and note: not sure if the above pic is final.


----------



## myromeo

ZS10 Pro owners, I think I’ve found my ideal EQ tuning. Aim was to maintain sub bass whilst boosting mids and keeping upper range close to harman target.


31 0
62 0
125 -1.5
250 -2
500 +1
1000 +3
2000 -2.5
4000 +3
8000 +3
16000 0

what would you change?


----------



## Sebulr

myromeo said:


> ZS10 Pro owners, I think I’ve found my ideal EQ tuning. Aim was to maintain sub bass whilst boosting mids and keeping upper range close to harman target.
> 
> 
> 31 0
> ...


I just stick some foam behind the grille to dampen the  BA in the nozzle and call it a day. The zsx I prefer stock.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> Asked CCA for more info on the CA24, seems it will have all the same BAs as the AST. I am really curious if such config will bring back some treble.
> Edit and note: not sure if the above pic is final.


Good to know exact frequencies each drivers are crossed over!  The AST’s treble with 50024sx6 matrix driver does something good, just a bit shy in the quantity, hope CA24 is a savior of AST with lower bass shelf.


----------



## saldsald (Sep 9, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Good to know exact frequencies each drivers are crossed over!  The AST’s treble with 50024sx6 matrix driver does something good, just a bit shy in the quantity, hope CA24 is a savior of AST with lower bass shelf.


If they are using the exact same BAs, so for over 8Khz they still only have the 30095s and 30019s. Unless the other BAs are dampen I don't see too much treble recovery. So I actually hope the info is wrong. 

Just checked the AST is claimed to have the 22955s responsible for 7hz to 600hz instead. Maybe they tamed the bass keeping the treble.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 8, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Good to know exact frequencies each drivers are crossed over!  The AST’s treble with 50024sx6 matrix driver does something good, just a bit shy in the quantity, hope CA24 is a savior of AST with lower bass shelf.


50024 are the mid or high-mid BAs, e.g. they were advertised in CA16 as new mid BAs.

So the numbers on the nice-looking CCA image do not make much sense, the very least simply because a part of the spectrum from 600 Hz to 2 kHz is missing (an array of 50024s  more likely covers 600 Hz and up).

Anyhow, I would be happy if C24 will have the treble like ZAX or ASX.


----------



## myromeo

Sebulr said:


> I just stick some foam behind the grille to dampen the  BA in the nozzle and call it a day. The zsx I prefer stock.


I’ve seen similar mods done on blon IEM’s… do you think a little bit of surgical tape over the grille would have the same effect?


----------



## ExTubeGamer

If you're an KZ AST owner, try a copper+silver mixed cable with your AST. I got myself the NiceHCK C8 from AliExpress. The treble becomes less peaky and the mids are clearer now.


----------



## Sebulr

myromeo said:


> I’ve seen similar mods done on blon IEM’s… do you think a little bit of surgical tape over the grille would have the same effect?


It tends to smear the bass.


----------



## VictorDUA

Can someone provide EQ settings (10 bands) for DQ6? Thank you.


----------



## rayliam80

As excited as I am with the up_coming_ release of the KZ ZEX, before I purchase it, I just want to get a few review/observation puns off my chest right now.

1. _I spent a lot time listening to the ZEX last night…_

2. _The joys of the ZEX one hears when…_

3. _Having the ZEX really…_

4. _Comparing the ZEX to my other…_

5. _Can’t beat the ZEX right now. Best I’ve ever heard…_

6. _The ZEX is really the best bang for the buck.._


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Sep 12, 2021)

rayliam80 said:


> As excited as I am with the up_coming_ release of the KZ ZEX, before I purchase it, I just want to get a few review/observation puns off my chest right now.
> 
> 1. _I spent a lot time listening to the ZEX last night…_
> 
> ...



- Best ZEX I ever had. 
- ZEX on Wheels 
- The Joy of ZEX


----------



## Tonymac136

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> - Best ZEX I ever had.
> - ZEX on Wheels
> - The Joy of ZEX


I never had ZEX. What should I expect. Is anything better than ZEX?


----------



## DeltaAudio

I'm really liking this BA bass, this thing is basshead..


----------



## mndless

DeltaAudio said:


> I'm really liking this BA bass, this thing is basshead..


Any more details for us about how they sound? Has CCA retuned them noticeably from the AST's tuning?


----------



## saldsald

DeltaAudio said:


> I'm really liking this BA bass, this thing is basshead..


Just like the AST or even more bassy? Does it really have the same drivers as the AST?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

VictorDUA said:


> Can someone provide EQ settings (10 bands) for DQ6? Thank you.



EQ is such a personal thing that I find it hard to share settings and much of a meaningful conversation. We're comparing fingerprints and looking for a match between simple shapes like squares, circles, and octagons ... it's just never gonna happen. Even the fancy APO curves for Harman targets don't really do much for me with my overears sets. I'm _not_ a big fan of these curves, anyhow.

Having said all that, I like to give DQ6 a healthy subbass boost for _everything_, and about 3-5 dB of bass boost below 60 Hz for rock. This pair has pretty good sparkle up top - for rock 'n roll I jack 1-4 kHz in varying amounts to taste to bring out lead guitars. Technicalities are quite decent on the DQ6, but I to be honest when I grab these it's because I'm busy doing something else and not really actively listening. The stock profile works well for me as a plugin-n-go pair. I still really dig this set and find myself enjoying everything out of them for casual listening.

I found that DQ6 sounds worse with a balanced cable on my bt3k. These are not vying to be audiophile grade for focused analytical or critical listening, but they are a darn good pair to just toss in your ear holes and go!

Hope that helps, cheers


----------



## VictorDUA

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> EQ is such a personal thing that I find it hard to share settings and much of a meaningful conversation.


I totally agree with you, but I read some reviews in which it was mentioned that minor flaws could and even need to be compensated by EQ. So I thought if there were such settings for these headphones? As a starting point for experimentation. Thanx.


----------



## saldsald (Sep 13, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Asked CCA for more info on the CA24, seems it will have all the same BAs as the AST. I am really curious if such config will bring back some treble.
> Edit and note: not sure if the above pic is final.






vs the AST
Graphs look the same to me just different y-axis scale, lol.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 13, 2021)

saldsald said:


> vs the AST
> Graphs look the same to me just different y-axis scale, lol.


The drivers are the same, the nozzles look very similar as well, and near identical graphs. In this form, it may be a hard sell for CCA, unless I miss some important difference.

On another note, how did you dissassemble NRAs -  heating the top plate and lifting it?

P. S. I still plan to get C24, my AST now are with a wide nozzle graft on heat glue. I do miss the treble extension in AST, but upper mids (or low treble) are really amazing with the BA array. So I still hope CCA will move treble BAs closer or give them a bit more power with the crossover circuit.


----------



## saldsald

PhonoPhi said:


> The drivers are the same, the nozzles look very similar as well, and near identical graphs. In this form, it may be a hard sell for CCA, unless I miss some important difference.
> 
> On another note, how did you dissassemble NRAs -  heating the top plate and lifting it?
> 
> P. S. I still plan to get C24, my AST now are with a wide nozzle graft on heat glue. I do miss the treble extension in AST, but upper mids (or low treble) are really amazing with the BA array. So I still hope CCA will move treble BAs closer or give them a bit more power with the crossover circuit.


Ya, feels like the only difference is the faceplate and I expect the ZEX to be really 'similar' to the NRA as well.

The NRA is the most difficult KZ/CCA IEM I have ever opened up I guess they changed to using a stronger glue and you will definitely leave some knife marks. Basically just heat the faceplate and use a razor (cutter) to cut at the joint interface (the slit, but there is no slit, you need to damage the shell a bit to let the cutter slide in) and keep cutting around the 'slit'.

I don't think moving the treble BAs closer will help as they are so outnumbered and they are all tubed so the volume won't actually change. They simply need to add more treble BAs maybe with their ASXV with 3 more treble BAs.


----------



## independent (Sep 13, 2021)

IEMbiker said:


> Hi @independent
> 
> I heat up the face plate to soften the glue using a hairdryer. Then slip a penknife at the connector side to pry open the face plate slowly and carefully.
> As in the previous post picture, the connector is secure with 2 Torx screws.
> ...


Really appreciate this advice.

So, I opened up the headphone and it was pretty obvious the torx screws were overtightened and stripped the thread at point of manufacture. One torx screw was just loose in the shell. The other was spinning freely.

This was my 6th pair of KZ IEMs and the most expensive by far. I'd tried to get some money back from Aliexpress and was denied even showing how the connector was loose when I first received them. No luck there.

Really not sure what to think now. I guess it's one of those things where you get burnt and it leaves a sour taste. Thanks again for the help. I've really enjoyed this thread and will probably keep reading it. Not sure I'll ever buy another pair of KZs.


----------



## gearofwar (Sep 13, 2021)

I hope this would give people some insight into buying goods from Aliexpress. I recently bought KZ SK10 from this store : https://luckylz.aliexpress.com/store/4612004?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_feedback.pcShopHead_9655987.0 (link was given by one of the members on here). Prior to this purchase, I did not have any issues purchasing KZ TWS products before; however, when I received the item, the Right earbud was dead right of the box while L side was not. Thinking of it being out of battery, I removed insulation on the connector on both sides and let them charge over the night. The next morning, the L worked normally as usual but the R was still pretty much dead. Unlike the previous TWS KZ AS8 that I bought, there is no LED indicator on SK10 so the only way to notice if the earbud is powered on is through the sound. No matter what I did with the R side, pressing down on the side, touching etc, it would never turn on. I opened a case on aliexpress on this issue, after explaining and posting video. Seller at first was giving me a headache, he believed that I was such a noob that I did not remove the insulation on the connector so after numerous attempts he still insisted that I need to send this item back to him while not providing me any shipping label for return. It literally costs 20-30 USD to ship a package to China from USPS not a few bucks in China that's how they shipped. I opened the case with Paypal and still the same thing, they ask me to return the item while not providing me a damn label. So beware of buying from Aliexpress at this point because those chinese sellers will not cover for any defect items.


----------



## saldsald

saldsald said:


> vs the AST
> Graphs look the same to me just different y-axis scale, lol.


Extracted with WPD:


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> Extracted with WPD:


Hopefully their graphs aren't accurate about the treble cliff, because that's a ridiculous amount of roll-off before 10kHz. The weird mids hump also got even bigger. These graphs confuse me so much.


----------



## riodgarp

VictorDUA said:


> Can someone provide EQ settings (10 bands) for DQ6? Thank you.



if you not familiar with eq-ing, then dynamic eq (not those pop, rock, jazz, kinda eq) or physical bass boost eq is an  option or use different ear tips


----------



## riodgarp (Sep 13, 2021)

double


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> Extracted with WPD:



Looks like a big graph of NOPE. I'm disappointed that they just cloned the AST and find it hard to believe they left this unit so hamstrung after getting it wrong the first time. 

Nothing left to do now except to destroy myself with liquor and cheap ZEX.


----------



## saldsald

mndless said:


> Hopefully their graphs aren't accurate about the treble cliff, because that's a ridiculous amount of roll-off before 10kHz. The weird mids hump also got even bigger. These graphs confuse me so much.


These are fairly accurate. Oops.


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Looks like a big graph of NOPE. I'm disappointed that they just cloned the AST and find it hard to believe they left this unit so hamstrung after getting it wrong the first time.
> 
> Nothing left to do now except to destroy myself with liquor and cheap ZEX.


The ZEX can be an NRA clone   . Let's hope it won't be.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

gearofwar said:


> I hope this would give people some insight into buying goods from Aliexpress. I recently bought KZ SK10 from this store : https://luckylz.aliexpress.com/store/4612004?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_feedback.pcShopHead_9655987.0 (link was given by one of the members on here). Prior to this purchase, I did not have any issues purchasing KZ TWS products before; however, when I received the item, the Right earbud was dead right of the box while L side was not. Thinking of it being out of battery, I removed insulation on the connector on both sides and let them charge over the night. The next morning, the L worked normally as usual but the R was still pretty much dead. Unlike the previous TWS KZ AS8 that I bought, there is no LED indicator on SK10 so the only way to notice if the earbud is powered on is through the sound. No matter what I did with the R side, pressing down on the side, touching etc, it would never turn on. I opened a case on aliexpress on this issue, after explaining and posting video. Seller at first was giving me a headache, he believed that I was such a noob that I did not remove the insulation on the connector so after numerous attempts he still insisted that I need to send this item back to him while not providing me any shipping label for return. It literally costs 20-30 USD to ship a package to China from USPS not a few bucks in China that's how they shipped. I opened the case with Paypal and still the same thing, they ask me to return the item while not providing me a damn label. So beware of buying from Aliexpress at this point because those chinese sellers will not cover for any defect items.



Amazon is for sure the better route. Every purchase on AliExpress is like inverse Vegas. Usually you win, but sometimes lady luck strikes hard. 

In another thread, a couple of people had a pretty difficult time returning obviously defective gear back to Penon recently, which is known as a reputable brand and a sponsor of this site. We get spoilt for price but occasionally are reminded that this whole chifi affair is different than picking up a pair of JBL down at the mall with a reliable return policy. Caveat emptor. I personally would have a hard time spending more than ~ 100 at AliExpress because I assume there's a 50/50 chance of getting defective gear.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> The ZEX can be an NRA clone   . Let's hope it won't be.



An NRA clone with a BA in the nozzle would be kinda hilarious 😂😂😂


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> An NRA clone with a BA in the nozzle would be kinda hilarious 😂😂😂


Is there more info about the ZEX?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> Is there more info about the ZEX?



Not that I've seen on English media.


----------



## roylan667

Does ZEX supposed to be revision to ZAX or is it a cheaper alternative?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

roylan667 said:


> Does ZEX supposed to be revision to ZAX or is it a cheaper alternative?



based on naming convention alone, I assume that the ZEX will be KZ's next flagship hybrid. The ZSX "Terminator" was the first model hybrid that wasn't named with a number to indicate the driver count, after the ZS10 Pro. 

ZSX -> ZAX -> ZAS -> ZEX.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> based on naming convention alone, I assume that the ZEX will be KZ's next flagship hybrid. The ZSX "Terminator" was the first model hybrid that wasn't named with a number to indicate the driver count, after the ZS10 Pro.
> 
> ZSX -> ZAX -> ZAS -> ZEX.


So does the ZEX got the new driver inside?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

ExTubeGamer said:


> So does the ZEX got the new driver inside?


Basically KZ version of NRA (MST based) I guess


----------



## AmericanSpirit

CCA CA24 is available, price is a bit too high to my expectations($128@hifigo), so I’d give it a wait. The FR looks the bass is handles better than CA24’s old brother KZ AST! Well the treble still looked quite rolled off, another DF-neutral ish targeting approach.


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> CCA CA24 is available, price is a bit too high to my expectations($128@hifigo), so I’d give it a wait. The FR looks the bass is handles better than CA24’s old brother KZ AST! Well the treble still looked quite rolled off, another DF-neutral ish targeting approach.


Check this out  :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16560293


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Sep 14, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Check this out  :
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16560293


Treble Rolled off🤔 Looks very dark😮‍💨

Oh wait!! That red line is AST!? It’s even bassier than AST? No way😭

I thought CA24 was AST2.0 but it seems CCA didn’t revise anything.

What a waste…. Having identical sound with two different brands.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

mndless said:


> Hopefully their graphs aren't accurate about the treble cliff, because that's a ridiculous amount of roll-off before 10kHz. The weird mids hump also got even bigger. These graphs confuse me so much.


I have AST and it is quite dark. It works for basshead with ultra treble sensitive ears.

For myself, I had to try to find a way to salvage treble. The stock deep inserted white silicone tips helps a bit though, it brings outlet bore near ear drums, and shorten the resonance chamber in the ear canal. Once EQ’d AST got pretty nice techs behind.


----------



## Sylmar

I've been out of the game for a while. I still have the S1 wireless IEM. Which would be considered the best KZ wireless nowadays?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Sylmar said:


> I've been out of the game for a while. I still have the S1 wireless IEM. Which would be considered the best KZ wireless nowadays?


For TWS KZ SK10 is 2BA + 2DD, the battery life issue of old kz tws is gone.


----------



## Sylmar

AmericanSpirit said:


> For TWS KZ SK10 is 2BA + 2DD, the battery life issue of old kz tws is gone.


Thanks for the info! I'll have a look.


----------



## nihil23

I want to take a small step forward compared to AST, I bought them for $ 80 (a pretty good price for them), so I decide to choose moondrop kato or 7 Hz timeless, or maybe even pmv pp. I will focus on a fairly good separation, elevated sub-bass, non-nasal midrange and non-shouty upper midrange and high frequencies. Kato seems to be a good all-rounder, but perhaps he lacks a sub-bass. So if it close to kxxs, how it comparable to AST, except elevated bass? 7hz timeless and pmv pp seem similar and are suitable for my taste. The only drawback of 7 Hz is its mmcx, and they can have not good enough, for commuting, sound isolation and quite high sound leakage.


----------



## lushmelody

nihil23 said:


> I want to take a small step forward compared to AST, I bought them for $ 80 (a pretty good price for them), so I decide to choose moondrop kato or 7 Hz timeless, or maybe even pmv pp. I will focus on a fairly good separation, elevated sub-bass, non-nasal midrange and non-shouty upper midrange and high frequencies. Kato seems to be a good all-rounder, but perhaps he lacks a sub-bass. So if it close to kxxs, how it comparable to AST, except elevated bass? 7hz timeless and pmv pp seem similar and are suitable for my taste. The only drawback of 7 Hz is its mmcx, and they can have not good enough, for commuting, sound isolation and quite high sound leakage.


My advice is investing in better cable (+ eartips) and PEQ the AST first (Poweramp/android; Peace/windows). A low shelf for a little less bass (-2 db) and a high shelf post 7khz is key for accurate treble reproduction.

Kato is okay but still a single dynamic driver. Planars aren't commute friends, you may consider their terrible drivability and I doubt they would sound better than AST (except tonality). You can save a lot of money if you try to bring the best from AST


----------



## ExTubeGamer

I just love my AST when I use EQ!


----------



## courierdriver

I have a few KZ'S...ZS10 PRO, DQ6 and ZAX. Honestly, these iems are ones I love and would never consider selling. I just love how they sound. Still loving my ZS10 PRO's today. Listening to them now, connected to my Qudelix-5K with a balanced KBEAR Rhyme cable. Spotify is the source and listening to this:


----------



## evasb (Sep 17, 2021)

Looks like it will be just like the NRA.


----------



## ear4ear (Sep 18, 2021)

If KZ pulls what CCA did with the AST on their KEZ (actually really disappointed in them adding two vents beside basically no change in tuning), I'm going to be pretty bummed. The silver/green scheme was nice on the NRA, and I was hoping for a sharper kind of detail on the KZ side with it.


The AST blew me away though, I didn't expect it to have that much bass, but very differently textured indeed. You just need a good wire swap and some new tips and you're golden. They're perfect with a 50/50 4-core 200-strand silver/gold plate (or copper) and some Spinfit 240s. These are fantastic stock and very fun to EQ! Getting in right you can almost get a decent tube amp vibe too.


----------



## evasb




----------



## RCracer777

evasb said:


>


I'm digging that Graphite color. Might get one after they release.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

To AST owners: if you like better mids and more seperation, get an NiceHCK C8 cable.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I found an online shop in Malaysia that has 'em priced equivalent to $24 USD. They weren't shipping yet. kz store on AliE will probably expose a link inside of a week.


----------



## ear4ear

Anyone find any charts yet on the sound signature of the NRA vs the ZEX? I was hoping got a green/silver combo. I like to color coordinate my IEMs.


----------



## evasb (Sep 18, 2021)

ear4ear said:


> If KZ pulls what CCA did with the AST on their KEZ (actually really disappointed in them adding two vents beside basically no change in tuning), I'm going to be pretty bummed. The silver/green scheme was nice on the NRA, and I was hoping for a sharper kind of detail on the KZ side with it.
> 
> 
> The AST blew me away though, I didn't expect it to have that much bass, but very differently textured indeed. You just need a good wire swap and some new tips and you're golden. They're perfect with a 50/50 4-core 200-strand silver/gold plate (or copper) and some Spinfit 240s. These are fantastic stock and very fun to EQ! Getting in right you can almost get a decent tube amp vibe too.


I expect that they will bring a more typical KZ signature (a little more bass) with KZ ZEX.

My complaint with KZ/CCA is that, lately, they are not consistent with their initial proposal of flatter CCAs and energetic KZs.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Who wants some ZEX?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003309326961.html


----------



## bhazard

RikudouGoku said:


> Who wants some ZEX?
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003309326961.html


Don't threaten us with a good time 
My NRA hasn't arrived yet, but I support new driver configs and value pricing like this. It looks like only Black is available, but I'll wait for the graphite color.


----------



## MacAttack7

Why does the KZ official store sometimes/often not have all of the available colors whereas another indepedent store does?


----------



## lushmelody (Sep 18, 2021)

evasb said:


>


The alloy colors are so cool. The rosé reminds me of Nicehck Lofty but heey 1/10 the price (｡•̀ᴗ-)✧


----------



## lushmelody

Is the NRA (and possibly ZEX) worse than the DQ6 in various aspects? I was so hopeful they could be the new budget kings

If this is generally confirmed then I'll wait for KZ/CCA next multi DD (with that NRA/ZEX cool design or even better)


----------



## RikudouGoku

lushmelody said:


> Is the NRA (and possibly ZEX) worse than the DQ6 in various aspects? I was so hopeful they could be the new budget kings
> 
> If this is generally confirmed then I'll wait for KZ/CCA next multi DD (with that NRA/ZEX cool design or even better)


Yes IMO. Not even close.


----------



## sutosuto

lushmelody said:


> KZ/CCA next multi DD


I have both DQ6 and CCA CKX (multi drivers). CKX is better than DQ6


----------



## jant71

Hopefully they made the NRA then worked out things more for the ZEX. Maybe? They didn't do the usual KZ model first then CCA tuned different. They do talk it up(though they usually do) so a shame if the ZEX can't outdo the DQ6 by a step.


----------



## Musicoflife

MacAttack7 said:


> Why does the KZ official store sometimes/often not have all of the available colors whereas another indepedent store does?


Because "KZ official store" just means it's an authorized dealer?


----------



## cr08

Been lurking this thread and following KZ stuff for a while and amazed (and lost!) at all the options. Currently have an original ZSN pair. Curious what current models are a good upgrade from this set. I forgot the previous models I've had, but the ZSN so far has hit all the marks for me for audio quality and signature.

I regularly swap between the wired cable and BT cable and combined with poor pocket handling the plastic around the pins has broken off so getting to the point that I probably need to replace them.


----------



## PhonoPhi

cr08 said:


> Been lurking this thread and following KZ stuff for a while and amazed (and lost!) at all the options. Currently have an original ZSN pair. Curious what current models are a good upgrade from this set. I forgot the previous models I've had, but the ZSN so far has hit all the marks for me for audio quality and signature.
> 
> I regularly swap between the wired cable and BT cable and combined with poor pocket handling the plastic around the pins has broken off so getting to the point that I probably need to replace them.


Not knowing you budget and preferences, just few points:

ZSN pro and ZSN pro x are not much of upgrades relative to ZSN.

It would be hard to go wrong with DQ6, one of the most recommended KZ and great for the money.

ZSX, ZAX and recent ZAS will bring you more resolution for more money.

All are not demanding on sources.


----------



## InvisibleInk

cr08 said:


> Been lurking this thread and following KZ stuff for a while and amazed (and lost!) at all the options. Currently have an original ZSN pair. Curious what current models are a good upgrade from this set. I forgot the previous models I've had, but the ZSN so far has hit all the marks for me for audio quality and signature.
> 
> I regularly swap between the wired cable and BT cable and combined with poor pocket handling the plastic around the pins has broken off so getting to the point that I probably need to replace them.



The DQ6 if you like dynamic drivers. That one is exciting sounding.
The AS10 if you want to experience soundly-tuned, nicely balanced, and resolving balanced armatures.


----------



## countryboyhk

My first impression of EDX Pro : Tuning is more smooth than DQ6, it's SQ is closed to DQ6, a very good budget single DD


----------



## TheVortex

My EDX Pro should be with me early next week. I hope it's better than the EDX as I found that one harsh sounding.
Also looking forward to the ZEX to see if it's actually different to the CCA NRA.


----------



## countryboyhk

TheVortex said:


> My EDX Pro should be with me early next week. I hope it's better than the EDX as I found that one harsh sounding.
> Also looking forward to the ZEX to see if it's actually different to the CCA NRA.


Never try the EDX because of the harsh comments, but just can't resist the look of EDX Pro   Its tuning is rather similar to DQ6 in a gentle way. DQ6 surely gives some more details and 3D sounding not by far, but EDX Pro sounds less aggressive and more harmonic.  On the other hand, I found the NRA sounds rather harsh and not natural.


----------



## TheVortex

countryboyhk said:


> Never try the EDX because of the harsh comments, but just can't resist the look of EDX Pro   Its tuning is rather similar to DQ6 in a gentle way. DQ6 surely gives some more details and 3D sounding not by far, but EDX Pro sounds less aggressive and more harmonic.  On the other hand, I found the NRA sounds rather harsh and not natural.



I have the DQ6 but the EDX Pro sounds like it is worth the money.


----------



## r31ya

countryboyhk said:


> My first impression of EDX Pro : Tuning is more smooth than DQ6, it's SQ is closed to DQ6, a very good budget single DD


A smooth DQ6 SQ from a single DD.
So, is it somewhere in KBEAR KS1 direction?
Its just "budget smooth single dd" just reminds of KBEAR KS1


----------



## Atek2019

I will get my EDX Pro within 3 days. Can't wait to test it. mine is Clear shell


----------



## jagujetas72 (Sep 20, 2021)

Forgot to post these here




KZ EDX Pro Initial Impressions: I'll take these over a TRN MT1

Stock Config - Medium Tips
JCALLY JM20

Pros: (for now)
•Well-rounded and extended bass performance
•Mids are too recessed
•The BEST stock cable I've seen under 30$ (I literally want this on everything in this price range)


Cons: (some of these could be resolved by rolling)
Mediocre Stage
Mild Sibilance (solved by tip rolling)
Harsh Peaks (solved by tip rolling)

These present a typical V-shape sound signature that's been done a thousand times but they do it well (if a bit harsh stock), and at a price that beats out the field with a cable that ANNIHILATES literally every other stock cable in this range and far above. (only the Hibiscus and SSP stock cables are better)

These are quite good for 6$. The overall package (KZ Starlines and that fantastic cable) absolutely trounce the TRN MT1, especially the newer narrow-bore units with the cheese-grater upper mids.

PS: These are not giant killers. These are strictly good for the price.


----------



## evasb (Sep 20, 2021)

KZ desperately needs to up their game on accessories, the clock is ticking. They over-deliver on cheap iems but expensive ones have basically the same cable (maybe a silver cable, but essentially the same), same box, no case and the same 3 white tips.

This is what stopped me buying anything more expensive than the KZ ZS10 Pro, I don't think ZAX deserve $20 more with basically the same accessories.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

evasb said:


> KZ desperately needs to up their game on accessories, the clock is ticking. They over-deliver on cheap iems but expensive ones have basically the same cable (maybe a silver cable, but essentially the same), same box, no case and the same 3 white tips.
> 
> This is what stopped me buying anything more expensive than the KZ ZS10 Pro, I don't think ZAX deserve $20 more with basically the same accessories.



well, the ZAX is 1DD+7BA.  ZS10 is 1DD+4BA.  That's a pretty big difference in driver count.  

Tips and cables are such a personal thing that I'd prefer not paying extra for a bunch of stuff I'm probably not going to use anyway. For sure there are some IEM I've looked at and quickly skipped over due to 

1) Over packaging with lots of expensive printed graphics using metallic inks    
2) tons of useless accessories I'll definitely never use  
3) fancy / semi-custom looking shell covers that do nothing for the sound 

There are numerous single DD IEM and 4BA IEM with this format selling for over $175 ...  I'd just rather not pay for all that.


----------



## cr08

PhonoPhi said:


> Not knowing you budget and preferences, just few points:
> 
> ZSN pro and ZSN pro x are not much of upgrades relative to ZSN.
> 
> ...


Thank you for these recommendations. The entire KZ line is essentially all in my budget range so even the ZSX/ZAX/ZAS are within reach. Preferences I don't have anything specific other than something close to the sound of the ZSN with decent bass response. I usually prefer foam tips which have done a lot for tamping down the sibilance on all the KZ's I've used especially with the ZSN where it was almost necessary.

I'll be taking a closer look at all of these recommendations and go from there. This at least helped me narrow down my options quite a bit.


----------



## InvisibleInk

cr08 said:


> Thank you for these recommendations. The entire KZ line is essentially all in my budget range so even the ZSX/ZAX/ZAS are within reach. Preferences I don't have anything specific other than something close to the sound of the ZSN with decent bass response. I usually prefer foam tips which have done a lot for tamping down the sibilance on all the KZ's I've used especially with the ZSN where it was almost necessary.
> 
> I'll be taking a closer look at all of these recommendations and go from there. This at least helped me narrow down my options quite a bit.



The latest KZs come with a narrower nozzle. I think they are @ 3.55mm or close to that. I've been able to put 3mm Etymotic and Westone silicon on them, but I have trouble getting the foamies on.


----------



## Fabulo

How durable are the plastic connectors on KZ IEMs? I wanted to try the new ZEX (and maybe even the ZAS or AST) but my right ear has the super power to bend any standard 2pin cable so I'm afraid they won't last long


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Sep 20, 2021)

Fabulo said:


> How durable are the plastic connectors on KZ IEMs? I wanted to try the new ZEX (and maybe even the ZAS or AST) but my right ear has the super power to bend any standard 2pin cable so I'm afraid they won't last long



The QDC design is such that stress is on the molded plastic plug, not the wires. It's a way better design IMO than 2 pin or mmcx.


----------



## mndless

Fabulo said:


> How durable are the plastic connectors on KZ IEMs? I wanted to try the new ZEX (and maybe even the ZAS or AST) but my right ear has the super power to bend any standard 2pin cable so I'm afraid they won't last long


The QDC protrusion can crack and the pins or the entire connector module can work loose. I had this happen with a set of CCA CKX. It's less likely to happen if you're using the correct cable connection type with it, so it actually seats onto the connector, but it's still a bit of a problem compared to the recessed 2-pin.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Fabulo said:


> How durable are the plastic connectors on KZ IEMs? I wanted to try the new ZEX (and maybe even the ZAS or AST) but my right ear has the super power to bend any standard 2pin cable so I'm afraid they won't last long


Original KZ QDC plastic connectors cracked a lot!
Their new generation starting from ASX/ASF is definitely more robust, a different better-quality plastic.
Dissassembling NRA, I could not not take the connector out of the shell, so I would be really surprised to see problems with these connectors! In general, NRA are darn-well built!

P. S. I ordered ZEX as well, my only excuse was the colours - loved blue and gray 
Though, as mentioned by KZ - the black ones are produced and shipped first, then gold, then blue, so 2-3 weeks before shipping easily.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

oh crazy. I haven't had any issue from the older C12s, but will keep an eye on them. The stock 2 pin cable broke on my GK10; I have another cable for it, so it wasn't a big deal. I haven't had any issue from the KZs. I don't swap cables that often, admittedly, but they've seemed sturdy.  Most of the cable providers on AliExpress offer QDC types fitment hasn't been a problem on the balanced cables I've ordered.




PhonoPhi said:


> P. S. I ordered ZEX as well, my only excuse was the colours - loved blue and gray
> Though, as mentioned by KZ - the black ones are produced and shipped first, then gold, then blue, so 2-3 weeks before shipping easily.



I went for the black ... I'm thinking the depression in the logo would look pretty sweet with a red inlay.  Gotta figure out what material to use.


----------



## chinmie

evasb said:


> KZ desperately needs to up their game on accessories, the clock is ticking. They over-deliver on cheap iems but expensive ones have basically the same cable (maybe a silver cable, but essentially the same), same box, no case and the same 3 white tips.
> 
> This is what stopped me buying anything more expensive than the KZ ZS10 Pro, I don't think ZAX deserve $20 more with basically the same accessories.



i think they put the difference in price on the IEM itself, driver count, materials, etc. 
personally i prefer to purchase KZs without accessories if possible


----------



## lushmelody

Fabulo said:


> How durable are the plastic connectors on KZ IEMs? I wanted to try the new ZEX (and maybe even the ZAS or AST) but my right ear has the super power to bend any standard 2pin cable so I'm afraid they won't last long


Do you know about TFZ 2pin cables? They may be less prone to that issue


----------



## r31ya

chinmie said:


> i think they put the difference in price on the IEM itself, driver count, materials, etc.
> personally i prefer to purchase KZs without accessories if possible


I rather prefer KZ to focus their budget in the IEM builds+good cable+3 sets of decent tips.
A simple pouch or small IEM carrier would be nice touch tough.

But things like unnecessary metal eartips bracket, brand name metal pin, and such things is something that i don't expect from KZ $20~80 price point.
Tough at $100+ with AST, at least i want great cable to come with it or more types of eartips


----------



## Fabulo

Thanks everyone for the answers! At this point before throwing too much money away I will buy the EDX Pro (the cyan color is gorgeous) to test if the connector resists my cable killer ear  
In the meantime I will be waiting for your reviews and impressions of the ZEX


----------



## Atek2019 (Sep 21, 2021)

KZ EDX Pro
My first impression :
No harsh sounding, smoother then previous edx.
Vocal is not harsh also.
Sound stage is not wide, just enough
The "wow" bass in this price range.

The highs are just enough with stock cable (not very extend), has to change the cable to get good highs

very good iem overall


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Tips and cables are such a personal thing that I'd prefer not paying extra for a bunch of stuff I'm probably not going to use anyway. For sure there are some IEM I've looked at and quickly skipped over due to
> 
> 1) Over packaging with lots of expensive printed graphics using metallic inks
> 2) tons of useless accessories I'll definitely never use
> ...



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audiosense-dt300.25383/reviews 

This AS DT300 is a good example of what I'm talking about. As a budget oriented manufacturer, I think KZ's products are a welcome reprieve from this kind of presentation. I'm certain that the DT300 _sounds great_ per the reviews, but I personally find the packaging and accessories to be unnecessary. IMO it should be selling for $140, not $220 (EU prices after converting Euro prices to USD and adding VAT).

Large packaging in solid cardboard box. Big enough to package some kind of ruggedized, huge water resistant case (why?...) Many individually wrapped packets of different style tips. Gold flecks in the cover plates. Only has 3 BA per side and look to be bass light. Cable looks nearly identical to the GK10. For me, all of this extra stuff would go into a drawer and quickly be forgotten.  I am also not totally sold on this design that routes sound tubes directly from the drivers, leaving your ear canal to be the mixing chamber.

As an example of someone that I think that gets it right ... Final Audio.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/final-audio-a3000.24730/

FA strikes the right balance in my opinion as a low cost premium set with the A3000 ($130) and A4000 ($160). It comes with a minimal but still complete kit for the money. I like the no frills modern, matte finish on the IEM itself. Lower cost PET diaphragm material on the drivers are combined with what seems to have been a quite involved engineering and manufacturing process. Big chambers for mixing and dampening to achieve an optimal tune. It seems like every dollar of cost is well represented in the hardware. Big tech, little price - much like KZ.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'm certain that the DT300 _sounds great_ per the reviews,


(no it doesnt...)


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

RikudouGoku said:


> (no it doesnt...)



lol - yeah I saw your review on AliE 

I like neutral but I can't tolerate a complete lack of bottom end. I lived with that on the Etys for so long; never again. Sold my AKG k702 for the same reason, but admittedly I had them under-amped a bit. Some people think the bass is fine on those. I thought it was near non-existent.


----------



## Podster (Sep 21, 2021)

Hey all you old skool KZ fans  (I've often wondered if the DT was for Dee Throned, surely KZ was not thinking the ED9's) Just posted this shot over in the "Show off your iems/Buds and Access" thread behind the Vampire and his Empire Ears$$$






Actually listening to these on the 5K right now and they are still outstanding (albeit on the heavy side) for their cost 



Love me some Natalie and how about these players eh


----------



## TheVortex

I just received my KZ EDX Pro today and I agree they sound less harsh the normal EDX but quite bassy though. I will graph them both tomorrow to see what the old and new are like.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

ZEX order placed. I received CCA NRA and pretty liked it (cons will be recessed lower mid) and hope ZEX gets a bit better tuning than NRA.


----------



## TheVortex

AmericanSpirit said:


> ZEX order placed. I received CCA NRA and pretty liked it (cons will be recessed lower mid) and hope ZEX gets a bit better tuning than NRA.



The NRA is supposed to have the better tuning according to the official CCA store. I have both on the way along with the CA24. I will graph them all when they arrive to see what the differences are.


----------



## evasb

Hope they are good because I want to gift someone with one of these.


----------



## RoXor

cr08 said:


> Thank you for these recommendations. The entire KZ line is essentially all in my budget range so even the ZSX/ZAX/ZAS are within reach. Preferences I don't have anything specific other than something close to the sound of the ZSN with decent bass response. I usually prefer foam tips which have done a lot for tamping down the sibilance on all the KZ's I've used especially with the ZSN where it was almost necessary.
> 
> I'll be taking a closer look at all of these recommendations and go from there. This at least helped me narrow down my options quite a bit.


I would recommend ZAS. Its a great iem, its clean sounding with fantastic layering and good extension on both ends. I absolutely love it, enjoy it for the price. I would suggest changing the cable depending on your sound signature preference. For me, Kbear Limpid Pro cable worked, it brought out the mids, and I noticed an overall refinement and slightly controlled bass. Perfect for my taste.
I have reviewed multiple iems around this price range, this one's highly recommended!

Note: I bought the ZAS by paying full amount so I am not speaking for the brand. Either way I dont receive stuffs from brands, its mostly borrowed from friends or I purchase them. 

But honestly I recommend ZAS. Good luck


----------



## whirlwind

First time that I have ever tried IEMs with a desk top amp....


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Today I plugged my KZ AST into my Zishan Z3. As expected, it sounded too dark. However I was able to circumvent that. I plugged my AST into the Line Output and reduced bass in the EQ and boosted all treble bands slighty. The sound is now balanced and fatigue-free.


----------



## abheybir (Sep 24, 2021)

Well given in to the hype : got ZAS to replace my ZSX, both paired to Tripowin C8
Definitely worth the upgrade, initial impressions more coherent and improved lower-range performance and transitions.


----------



## abheybir (Sep 24, 2021)

Well given in to the hype : got ZAS to replace my ZSX, both paired to Tripowin C8
Definitely worth the upgrade, initial impressions more coherent and improved lower-range performance and transitions.

(Sorry for duplicate post, not able to find any way to remove it )


----------



## RoXor

abheybir said:


> Well given in to the hype : got ZAS to replace my ZSX, both paired to Tripowin C8
> Definitely worth the upgrade, initial impressions more coherent and improved lower-range performance and transitions.


Congrats 🍻


----------



## abheybir

RoXor said:


> Congrats 🍻


Thank you @RoXor!!


----------



## TheVortex

Here is my take on the KZ EDX Pro.



Also twice the price of the original EDX may affect it sales.


----------



## ear4ear

While I wait to see if my color coded CCA NRA dreams are smashed by the Zex having better tuning. I managed to grab a Tri Starsea for $75 and possibly a pair of NiceHCK NX7 MK3s for $80. I'd say that was a good haul, yeah?


----------



## mndless

ear4ear said:


> While I wait to see if my color coded CCA NRA dreams are smashed by the Zex having better tuning. I managed to grab a Tri Starsea for $75 and possibly a pair of NiceHCK NX7 MK3s for $80. I'd say that was a good haul, yeah?


One thing to note: despite being fairly sensitive and moderately low impedance, the Starsea really need some decent current to have any bass to speak of. Just go ahead and start off on low volume, high gain and work up from there. I have been generally pleased by how the Starsea handle their mids and treble, though. Very competent in that regard. I've always been curious about the NX7 Mk.3, so you definitely got an interesting set at a pretty good deal. You'll have to let us know how you like their piezo tweeters that they've refined over three generations of that set.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ear4ear said:


> While I wait to see if my color coded CCA NRA dreams are smashed by the Zex having better tuning. I managed to grab a Tri Starsea for $75 and possibly a pair of NiceHCK NX7 MK3s for $80. I'd say that was a good haul, yeah?



That's going to keep you entertained for a bit, definitely.


----------



## ear4ear

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> That's going to keep you entertained for a bit, definitely.


I was definitely thinking so, I'm kind of excited over the MK3 more I think. It just sucks I _have_ to get a matching cable and matching ear tips, but $80 was too hard to pass up. I was kind of surprised they did an interchangeable nozzle, I head it really doesn't do much for some people. The Moondrop Kato that's coming is what I thought brought that idea out. Then I have too many options to mess with the Starsea, hopefully the resin is a nice purple and blue.


----------



## ear4ear (Sep 26, 2021)

mndless said:


> One thing to note: despite being fairly sensitive and moderately low impedance, the Starsea really need some decent current to have any bass to speak of. Just go ahead and start off on low volume, high gain and work up from there. I have been generally pleased by how the Starsea handle their mids and treble, though. Very competent in that regard. I've always been curious about the NX7 Mk.3, so you definitely got an interesting set at a pretty good deal. You'll have to let us know how you like their piezo tweeters that they've refined over three generations of that set.


Hey, thank you for that. The tactile feel of bass and my ears don't easily fatigue make it fun to really tune things, I have a very high tolerance to bass and sibilance, usually my output is on the high side. Have you read much into piezo-tech on the audio side, I haven't even realized it was quite a thing? It's really interesting and could be extremely useful for ESTs/MSTs I'd feel if done right. Pretty much frequential waves flexing a metal sheet help create the tune instead of a BA perse mimicking/emitting the the frequency if I recall, is that it? Though if someone could correct me that'd be great. It's wonderful if it'll give it a lot of actual flexibility and depth to character to music if its done right, but from what I've read the MK3 does seem to be a partially empty mixed bag some people love it and some people feel very let down. I'll definitely let everyone know what I think once I break 100+ hours on some sets. I wanted to compare different driver compensations to each other. ESTs/MSTs still excite me a bit still. I can't wait to see some quad-brids, and affordable ones hopefully, and hopefully more thought put into nozzles. The BLON-03 could have really used something like nozzle tech.


----------



## Fabulo

They updated the KZ ZEX page on AliExpress. It says the second driver is a dual magnetic dynamic, different from the triple magnetic found on the CCA NRA. Maybe they use the same driver as the KZ EDX Pro.


----------



## jant71 (Sep 27, 2021)

Fabulo said:


> They updated the KZ ZEX page on AliExpress. It says the second driver is a dual magnetic dynamic, different from the triple magnetic found on the CCA NRA. Maybe they use the same driver as the KZ EDX Pro.



Interesting catch. Maybe they are a little different. Not enough evidence yet. The first comment I saw comparing them said the ZEX sounds better and has more bass than NRA. Just a one sentence comment and it is early.

There it is by the way...


----------



## r31ya

jant71 said:


> Interesting catch. Maybe they are a little different. Not enough evidence yet. The first comment I saw comparing them said the ZEX sounds better and has more bass than NRA. Just a one sentence comment and it is early.
> 
> There it is by the way...


Magnetostat + edx pro dynamic driver?


----------



## bhazard

The NRA is ok. Plenty good for the price, but needs too much EQ to sound great. Even with EQ, something is off with the tonality.
I'm interested in how the ZEX will perform in comparison. Was worth a try for the new driver tech/config.


----------



## evasb (Sep 27, 2021)

Still no official graphs for ZEX?

Also, reviewers are liking EDX Pro. I'll certainly buy one.


----------



## Tonymac136

I think the EDX Pro might have some unit variance issues, so caveat emptor. Mine seem to be better than @TheVortex describes. More importantly though, they work fine out of the box whereas the OG EDX really needs a cable swap and decent eartips to give its best. I received the EDX Pro and the CCA NRA today. Had a listen to the NRA and put it away. The EDX Pro got about 4 hours of listening.


----------



## TheVortex

Tonymac136 said:


> I think the EDX Pro might have some unit variance issues, so caveat emptor. Mine seem to be better than @TheVortex describes. More importantly though, they work fine out of the box whereas the OG EDX really needs a cable swap and decent eartips to give its best. I received the EDX Pro and the CCA NRA today. Had a listen to the NRA and put it away. The EDX Pro got about 4 hours of listening.



Possible unit variance but to early to tell. I do prefer the EDX Pro over the OG EDX but I just was not wowed by them. I have done a comparison video but it's not live yet.


----------



## ear4ear (Sep 28, 2021)

Decided to grab an NRA since I wanted a teal colored IEM and the ASTs went with my black and gold stuff. Replaced the tips for (M) foam. I normally wear a Spinfit CP240/CP100+. The foams gave me a better feel, probably because the isolation of air movement of the foam compared to silicone and the soundstage opened up a little more nicely. I also swapped the cable out for a 400-core 4-braid SPC cable and it really helped everything shine a little more for me and helped with the tonality. So far my only issue is I notice crashing/sibilance when cranked high. I have a very high tolerance to treble and bass, as well as sibilance which I enjoy from time to time. The mids on mine are fantastic, and I think female/feminine vocals, especially harder ones are a bit of a surprise for me on them. Their vocals pack more of a punch than I'm used to and I enjoy it for how cheap these are. The bass was the part I was excited and worried about, being CCA as well, but its nice. It feels like pancake instead of a tight punch or a slap, which is refreshing since my other IEMs love pushing bass. I'd pay $45 tops for these, at $24 they were a steal. My biggest concern is I have heard variances between their NRAs, mostly rigidity, not so much sound?


----------



## Batamphile

Edx pro reporting 





Gorgeous look for $14, good bass decay, need a slight tone adjustment to give weight, mids  and vocal quite shouty and sibilant (eq down few dB to control it) and okay treble (what do you expect at this price point), average soundstage/imaging, but once tweaked very engaging Set especially for the price.. but without eq I take DQ6 over this 😁


----------



## r31ya

There is unbox KZ ZEX vids in youtube



From the comments


> I just got mine yesterday! I agree that the soundstage isnt the widest. However I really love the low frequency sound the zex gives. I can also hear the mids clearly. Overall clarity is good so is the sound separation. The sound from Zex is warm which means its suitable for Blues, EDM or music that has lots of bass. These are my opinion to this IEM.





> Hello. Thank you, Separation is Good, Soundstage is kinda moderate, its not the widest, Good amount of Bass than CCA NRA if you have tried that, Highly recommend specially it is Electrostatic IEM at affordable pricepoint, you need to hear them personally. 😁





> Hello, they sound Warm. Sorry i dont have blon03, i cant comment on that 😕





> @hai janaba  hahaha 🤣, oh you have NRA already? Its not an upgrade though, just a little bit more than than NRA, and yes you get that ZEXy look too





> ZEX and NRA, well basically they are the same, under one Comapny but slightly tuned differently,   besides the design i prefer  ZEX over NRA, NRA is more balanced, but ZEX have more Bass,  thats about it, IMHO, also I have no experience with other Electrostatic IEM besides NRA/ZEX.


----------



## saldsald

Got my EDX Pro and briefly compared it with the original EDX. I think the pro is just slightly smoother, having slightly more textured bass and also slightly better imaging but other than these they are quite identical. I also eye-inspected their drivers I think they are the same.



Green - Pro , Purple - EDX


----------



## lushmelody

r31ya said:


> There is unbox KZ ZEX vids in youtube
> 
> 
> 
> From the comments



Sadly tonality is not very good if you care about it. Oh well, waiting for DQ6 Pro


----------



## voicemaster

Ordered the ZAS out of curiosity lol. I've been listening with my ZS7 lately.


----------



## unifutomaki

Ordered the ZEX out of curiosity too


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> Ordered the ZEX out of curiosity too



Curiosity killed the cat. And the wallet.


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> Curiosity killed the cat. And the wallet.



Heh… well, it was S$30, so if it’s terrible I’ll just use it for Zoom or donate it


----------



## evasb (Oct 1, 2021)

BGGAR liked it.


----------



## voicemaster

Well the ZAS came today and even at first listening, I like this better than the AST. The ZAS sounds like ZAX with more and better bass, less bite but still quite airy treble. Compared to the AST, the ZAS has a more forward mid/vocal and treble signature.


----------



## voicemaster

I don't find the ZAS too bassy at all. It does hit really hard on heavy bass songs tho. The AST on the other hand has even more bass than the ZAS. 
It is either my ears have adjusted to the sound or the DD burn-in but at first listening, true enough it is quite bassy, but 3-4 hours of listening, the bass has become much controlled and tighter. I am quite enjoying the sound.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Well the ZAS came today and even at first listening, I like this better than the AST. The ZAS sounds like ZAX with more and better bass, less bite but still quite airy treble. Compared to the AST, the ZAS has a more forward mid/vocal and treble signature.



Can you please compare to CKX?
Thanks!


----------



## evasb (Oct 3, 2021)

Couldn't wait, bought ZEX.

I saw a great deal of positive commentary about it, so I think it is a pretty safe buy now.


----------



## Francisk

Looks like the ZEX is a no brainer....How wrong can you go at 20 bucks??? I just purchased one too


----------



## voicemaster

Francisk said:


> Looks like the ZEX is a no brainer....How wrong can you go at 20 bucks??? I just purchased one too


Exactly! Even if it turn out not to your liking, $20 won't dent your wallet too much.


----------



## nihil23

Just got the zex today, they are quite nice, better than nra, or maybe even gk10, which I through is too overrated. Remind me more zas or mele, than any other of my iem. Stock tips didn't fit zex well (but for AST stock tips are nice), I've changed them with cp360 and it nice pairing. Noise isolation quite nice, even for train/subway, but sound leakage might be higher than average.


----------



## amanieux

ear4ear said:


> While I wait to see if my color coded CCA NRA dreams are smashed by the Zex having better tuning. I managed to grab a Tri Starsea for $75 and possibly a pair of NiceHCK NX7 MK3s for $80. I'd say that was a good haul, yeah?


where did you got a tri starsea for $75 ?


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Can you please compare to CKX?
> Thanks!


The ZAS sounds pretty similar to the CKX. Treble and mid are hardly any different between the two. The most noticeable difference is the bass, but even that is not night and day difference. The ZAS's bass has a fuller bass sound with a slightly better impact, texture and body than the CKX. The amount of bass is also just a touch more than the CKX. For me, the ZAS is the best tuning IEM from KZ at the moment. I was pretty surprised by the amount of bass OOTB, but it is now just a touch more than the ZAX/CKX. The AST still has way more bass quantity than the ZAS.


----------



## r31ya

new reviewer reviews KZ ZEX~


ZEX seems to be better tuned NRA and apparently ready do dethrone ZS10 Pro with cheaper price.


----------



## Aevum

I was testing the ZEX vs the NRA yesterday, the bass on the ZEX is slightly elevated, but might be less controlled, maybe its because im using the old neckband Bluetooth unit.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Oct 5, 2021)

In their official store on AliExpress, KZ has bumped prices of BA10 and ZAS both to over 110 euro. AST is over 135 euro ($156 USD).  

ZAS still at the old price of ~ 67 euro in the CCA store.

Are they just doing this ahead of 11.11 to inflate the discount numbers?  I think they're going to have a rough time at those prices.  The sub 30 euro IEMs seem to be unaffected.


Surely this is a glitch in the budget matrix:


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> ZEX seems to be better differently tuned NRA



fixed it.


----------



## Aevum

i like both, it sounds good off the BTR5, it sounds ok off the BT 5.2 HD adapter.


----------



## Fabulo

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> In their official store on AliExpress, KZ has bumped prices of BA10 and ZAS both to over 110 euro. AST is over 135 euro ($156 USD).
> 
> ZAS still at the old price of ~ 67 euro in the CCA store.
> 
> ...



They have been messing with their prices for some time. Two days ago the ZEX cost 40 euro and the AST 240...


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Fabulo said:


> They have been messing with their prices for some time. Two days ago the ZEX cost 40 euro and the AST 240...



 yeah, must be some seasonal price tweaking.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

r31ya said:


> new reviewer reviews KZ ZEX~
> 
> 
> ZEX seems to be better tuned NRA and apparently ready do dethrone ZS10 Pro with cheaper price.



Won't be surprised if this is true. KZ usually has history of improving the tuning through these new launches. NRA Pro will be marginally better than both ZEX & NRA which will trumped by NRX some months down the line


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Won't be surprised if this is true. KZ usually has history of improving the tuning through these new launches. NRA Pro will be marginally better than both ZEX & NRA which will trumped by NRX some months down the line



The steady march of progress ... and new things to keep marketing busy! 

At KZs normal rate I'm really hoping for a KZ or CCA tribrid in 3-6 months.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> The steady march of progress ... and new things to keep marketing busy!
> 
> At KZs normal rate I'm really hoping for a KZ or CCA tribrid in 3-6 months.


I won't be surprised if this hybrid/tribrid will be their Chinese New Year launch.


----------



## r31ya

KZ ZS12 Tribird, 1 DD, 1 MST, 4 BA array each


----------



## seanwee

Still waiting for the Crinacle x KZ collab iem


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Oct 6, 2021)

seanwee said:


> Still waiting for the Crinacle x KZ collab iem



I think you'll be waiting a long time.  CCA C16 (not CA16) is probably the closest FR curve wise to crin's target out of all KZ/CCA catalog.

actually, NRA is closer but still has too much in midbass.

C16 vs Crin's Blessing2 tuned Dusk




of the C16, crin's notes are: 


C-CCA C16100V-shapedShouty and bassy at the same time. Not a great combo.C-C+8BA

And of the Dusk? posting here for reference.    


A+★★★Moondrop Blessing 2
320DF-neutralVery well tuned from bass to treble, perhaps lacking in the last octaves of extension.SA4BA 1DDReview unit




and the NRA vs Dusk:




so NRA is not that far off in tonality, really.  I thought I remembered seeing a note for NRA in the listings, but there isn't yet.


----------



## crabdog

Here's my ZEX review. Slightly smoother than NRA but does that mean better?


----------



## InvisibleInk

r31ya said:


> KZ ZS12 Tribird, 1 DD, 1 MST, 4 BA array each



1 DD 1MST 6 BA 1BC

Imagine the size of the shell


----------



## requal (Oct 6, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think you'll be waiting a long time.  CCA C16 (not CA16) is probably the closest FR curve wise to crin's target out of all KZ/CCA catalog.
> 
> actually, NRA is closer but still has too much in midbass.
> 
> ...


Imo B2 and NRA are almost identical. After volume matching Nra have better bass, B2 better depth. 
Nra needs better cable and tips.
I sold my B2.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Oct 6, 2021)

requal said:


> Imo B2 and NRA are almost identical. After volume matching Nra have better bass, B2 better depth.
> Nra needs better cable and tips.
> I sold my B2.



 For the price difference, certainly choosing a cable and tip upgrade is an easy task.

BA10 is my only point of reference for a pure BA set, but I actually prefer NRA over that set as well, if only by a (very) small margin. In terms of comfort and fatigue, that's a different story. The shell shape is certainly easier to live with on the NRA but not as fun as BA10, which I still deeply admire for their unapologetic looks. What I notice most is fatigue. I can listen to NRA all day. BA10 and C12 both wear me out after a couple of hours at moderate volume.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

InvisibleInk said:


> 1 DD 1MST 6 BA 1BC
> 
> Imagine the size of the shell


 
KZ should stop messing around and design a killer 12mm DD for the flagships and EDX successor.


----------



## evasb (Oct 6, 2021)

requal said:


> Imo B2 and NRA are almost identical. After volume matching Nra have better bass, B2 better depth.
> Nra needs better cable and tips.
> I sold my B2.


What tips do you use with NRA?


----------



## Nimweth

requal said:


> Imo B2 and NRA are almost identical. After volume matching Nra have better bass, B2 better depth.
> Nra needs better cable and tips.
> I sold my B2.


Yes, I tried that, and I now use a hybrid copper/silver cable from Hifi Hear and medium Starlines. Treble is more open and smoother and bass is tighter. Staging is more airy. Superb sound.


----------



## mndless

InvisibleInk said:


> 1 DD 1MST 6 BA 1BC
> 
> Imagine the size of the shell


It would be pretty average. The DD and MST can be stacked, BAs aren't that large for mids frequencies, and bone conduction exciters also aren't that large.


----------



## voicemaster

Thats not how KZ works unfortunately. More drivers the better.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

voicemaster said:


> Thats not how KZ works unfortunately. More drivers the better.



apparently x4 chifi ba's == 1 Knowles unit based on current configs.


----------



## InvisibleInk

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> apparently x4 chifi ba's == 1 Knowles unit based on current configs.



Yeah, the KBear NEON. I've been meaning to listen to that again.


----------



## requal

evasb said:


> What tips do you use with NRA?


I think BGVP W01 are good, and as @Nimweth  said, good spc cable.


----------



## crabdog

evasb said:


> What tips do you use with NRA?


I was using Symbio MandarinEs tips.


----------



## seanwee

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I think you'll be waiting a long time.  CCA C16 (not CA16) is probably the closest FR curve wise to crin's target out of all KZ/CCA catalog.
> 
> actually, NRA is closer but still has too much in midbass.
> 
> ...


A collab with any budget iem maker would be good, i just thought KZ would be the best fit since they have many many designs that he can mix and match from, doesn't have to be based on an existing design. He mentioned wanting to do something sub 100 after all.


----------



## JEHL

Zsn pro x vs nra/zex?


----------



## Aevum (Oct 7, 2021)

not sure, but i gave up on KZ as a company that just adds more drivers without any proper tuning, and now the ZEX has really impressed me.
Its not going to go against a blessing 2 or Oxygen 2021 any time soon but it can handle the low end "champions" like the Bonus IE or the Blons.

Plus im amazed at the soundstage and the bass impact, even if vocals arent as clear as they should i suspect it was some unstable treble.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

InvisibleInk said:


> Yeah, the KBear NEON. I've been meaning to listen to that again.



All mids and treble. \o/


----------



## Nimweth

Do you think we can convince KZ to bring back Starline tips and discontinue the nasty white ones supplied with the latest KZ/CCA models? I fitted Starlines to the NRA and the sound was transformed.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Oct 7, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> Do you think we can convince KZ to bring back Starline tips and discontinue the nasty white ones supplied with the latest KZ/CCA models? I fitted Starlines to the NRA and the sound was transformed.



+1.  The crappy white ones do add some extra brilliance to the treble for my ears, but I have to sit really still before even the large size falls out. They're just too flimsy.  Starlines are great, otherwise, and I EQ anyway 

edit: found a link where KZ for Starlines sold separately, for next to nothing at that. I will toss a couple boxes in on my next order. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32848258474.html


----------



## evasb (Oct 7, 2021)

The mystery is that KZ is using starlines on the EDX Pro, but white starlines, but seems like they are not using on ZEX and/or NRA.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Oct 8, 2021)

So, you guys might remember when I got the DQ6 and started playing around with it and managed to create my DIY foam mod?

Well, looks like there is a better and more consistent mod out there.





















Both the (old) Hana and the Oxygen filter works great.

I say the Hana filter works better. But the Oxygen filter is included in the Tanya (and also sold separately on Penon) and is quite similar to my DIY foam mod (might be a bit warmer though).

Epic set. promoted from (modded) rank A to S-.


----------



## evasb

Never modded IEMS, how this filter thing works?


----------



## RikudouGoku

evasb said:


> Never modded IEMS, how this filter thing works?


Simply put on the filter on the iem nozzle.




(not my pic)


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> Mine AZ09 sucks. Connection drop alot even when the transmitter like 1ft away from it.
> What I like from AZ09 better than BT20s pro are:
> 1. Much compact size, hard shell case and better IEM placement inside the case. On the bt20s pro, your iem will get squished out and if the case got crushed by something quite heavy, it can break the iem.
> 2. The module is smaller and lighter than bt20s pro.
> ...


Any sense if the AZ09 Pro is any better?  I agree 100% about the AZ09 BT issues. I’m hoping the pro version might be a little better.


----------



## voicemaster

whitete said:


> Any sense if the AZ09 Pro is any better?  I agree 100% about the AZ09 BT issues. I’m hoping the pro version might be a little better.


I don't know. Is the pro version come out already? At home, the AZ09 is okay, but when I went outside, the connection got really really bad.


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> I don't know. Is the pro version come out already? At home, the AZ09 is okay, but when I went outside, the connection got really really bad.


This was on Facebook today…


----------



## voicemaster

whitete said:


> This was on Facebook today…


Oh more expensive than the original AZ09. Does it have AptX? All I see is they have a B-pin and C-pin option now.


----------



## r31ya (Oct 8, 2021)

Finally they used the "now" standard QC3040...
It should be good. Do QC3040 support LDAC?

btw if 3040 is the "Pro", the QC5100 will be AZ09 Pro pro?
---
Btw KZ seems to relatively release this in silence? *KZ VX10*
It came with interesting claim


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> Oh more expensive than the original AZ09. Does it have AptX? All I see is they have a B-pin and C-pin option now.


Not sure about AptX. 🤷🏼‍♂️


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> Finally they used the "now" standard QC3040...
> It should be good. Do QC3040 support LDAC?
> 
> btw if 3040 is the "Pro", the QC5100 will be AZ09 Pro pro?
> ...



I do hope this graph is not real. Contrary to their claims that this is "infinitely close to the Harman curve".

The 30+ dB pinna gain is gonna sound like a shrieking banshee.


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> Oh more expensive than the original AZ09. Does it have AptX? All I see is they have a B-pin and C-pin option now.


According to this, it does have AptX. Hope it’s true.


----------



## Viber

Found this review on *KZ VX10:*

https://www.facebook.com/104164698111775/posts/361832799011629/


> KZ VX10 Features
> 
> * Drivers
> 1x 10mm Dynamic Driver
> ...


----------



## evasb

RikudouGoku said:


> Simply put on the filter on the iem nozzle.
> 
> 
> (not my pic)


Hope KZ is looking at your quest to better the DQ6 and do a DQ6 Pro based on your findings.


----------



## RikudouGoku

evasb said:


> Hope KZ is looking at your quest to better the DQ6 and do a DQ6 Pro based on your findings.


yeah, there is a working recipe for them.

Just put some tanchjim filters on it and name it the DQ6 Pro lol.


----------



## InvisibleInk

RikudouGoku said:


> yeah, there is a working recipe for them.
> 
> Just put some tanchjim filters on it and name it the DQ6 Pro lol.


You've just tuned their next hit for free. If you wanna be like Crinacle and HBB, you’ve got to stop doing this kind of inventing for free.


----------



## evasb (Oct 9, 2021)

InvisibleInk said:


> You've just tuned their next hit for free. If you wanna be like Crinacle and HBB, you’ve got to stop doing this kind of inventing for free.


*KZ x RikudouGoku DQ6 Pro*

But, seriously, it's a long shot that KZ will follow these instructions to make the "Pro" version, so why not helping people to have a good set for a low price? Would be pretty cool to have a colab, though. I would pay the $10 or more for it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

InvisibleInk said:


> You've just tuned their next hit for free. If you wanna be like Crinacle and HBB, you’ve got to stop doing this kind of inventing for free.


This is a hobby. Not meant to fill my pockets with x usd on each purchase, if it ever happens (with any brand) I wont be reviewing it due to conflict of interest as well.


----------



## lushmelody

lushmelody said:


> By the way, BQEYZ is selling on Ali their new eartips introduced by Summer, they also seem like a great deal (waiting my order).


Update about that: these eartips silicone is very thin, reminds me a lot of starlines/reversed starlines but more aesthetically pleasing. I don't get a great sub-bass seal with them, the mids are okay meh-ish and treble is good. 

For AST specifically (which was the intended reason to buy) I don't think they are good. My personal choice is better seal eartips and reduce bass loudness by shelf EQ filter (from my experience this method preserves more texture... and excitement, I guess). They are still a valid purchase, though, considering longer nozzles IEMs comfort and seal.


----------



## Leo-rume

Incoming KZ EDS..... ED series, so likely another single DD.


----------



## r31ya

Is that an open back single dd?


----------



## InvisibleInk

r31ya said:


> Is that an open back single dd?


It’s at least an open faceplate


----------



## r31ya

InvisibleInk said:


> It’s at least an open faceplate


Open back xun dynamic driver or open back triple magnet dynamic driver sold at less than $15 seems to be very interesting to try.


----------



## evasb (Oct 12, 2021)

Openback EDX? Interesting.

Hope that this thing that nobody asked for is at least decent.


----------



## evasb (Oct 13, 2021)

https://twitter.com/lucky52143915/status/1446713313954447369





It is a pretty fat DD. If it is their triple magnet driver used in NRA, it can be pretty interesting.

I hope KZ tune this close to NRA bass response and a controlled treble.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Really hard to say w/o some more specs. I can't tell if it's actually open backed or just see-thru to the shell. It might just be a re-turned triple-magnet driver without the magnetostatic unit. My curiosity is piqued!


----------



## evasb

Imagine if they do a $10 neutral-like IEM? I would buy in a heartbeat.


----------



## saldsald




----------



## baskingshark

evasb said:


> Imagine if they do a $10 neutral-like IEM? I would buy in a heartbeat.



Unfortunately, the words "KZ" and "neutral" are an oxymoron! Most of the KZs have a V shaped house sound.

Actually, not picking on KZ, but majority of the budget CHIFI are tuned V shaped or harmanish to suit consumer preferences. There aren't many neutralish gear in comparison, maybe some unique ones like the Tin T2. Tin T2 Evo, HZSound Heart Mirror, maybe some Moondrop diffuse field tuned sets.


----------



## evasb

Yeah, I think KZ will never do a neutral IEM (they did with E10 though). Maybe they can try with a lower production brand like CCA.


----------



## lushmelody

evasb said:


> https://twitter.com/lucky52143915/status/1446713313954447369
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if they bring the same airy magic feeling from open back HPs that will cause a lot of market impact. None of my budget IEMs simulates my AKG K712 airiness


----------



## jant71

r31ya said:


> Is that an open back single dd?





InvisibleInk said:


> It’s at least an open faceplate





r31ya said:


> Open back xun dynamic driver or open back triple magnet dynamic driver sold at less than $15 seems to be very interesting to try.


Just a cap. Do you see anything but the green behind it? Maybe a couple of rear vents...



Not sure where it looks open back.


----------



## lushmelody

jant71 said:


> Just a cap. Do you see anything but the green behind it? Maybe a couple of rear vents...
> 
> Not sure where it looks open back.


Meh. Just a non trypophobic Prometheus. At least is fair priced


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Looks like KZ pokemon factory is still alive and well. Gotta be honest, another overears and some quality desktop amps are my next headfi purchases, but probably not until 2022. Speaking for myself, chasing different tunings is a largely pointless exercise. I do have a pair of CVJ Angel Wings (1dd/1ba) and Heart Mirror on their way, and I'm still enjoying the NRA, C12, and BA10 on occasion. I'll check back w/ KZ in a few months when they either release a tribrid or they've made a significant update to their driver tech. 
Long Live KZ - I'm on hiatus for a few months as work is in triple overdrive right now! cheers


----------



## crabdog

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Really hard to say w/o some more specs. I can't tell if it's actually open backed or just see-thru to the shell. It might just be a re-turned triple-magnet driver without the magnetostatic unit. My curiosity is piqued!


This. Everybody is just assuming it's an open back. Chances of that are extremely slim. You don't need _that _much open. First drop of sweat/rain would be the end of it...


----------



## saldsald

crabdog said:


> This. Everybody is just assuming it's an open back. Chances of that are extremely slim. You don't need _that _much open. First drop of sweat/rain would be the end of it...


Just check out kz's Facebook entry back in July. It's explained there.


----------



## ChristianM (Oct 16, 2021)

Please delete.....


----------



## baskingshark

The KZ/CCA pokemon collection continues.

CCA CA16 Pro.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/posts/6449292701777653/






Now this is the million dollar question. When is the Pro version of this CCA CA16 Pro gonna come out?


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> The KZ/CCA pokemon collection continues.
> 
> CCA CA16 Pro.
> 
> ...


Meanwhile, still wonder when the DQ6 Pro will come out...


----------



## unifutomaki (Oct 20, 2021)

Time for ZEX. 😏







Stock tips are trashed immediately, they are soft, flimsy, garbage TWS tips that, combined with the short nozzle, are completely useless for achieving any kind of seal. The stock cable is pretty good with a hefty strain relief at the 3.5mm jack, soft, light and pliable.


----------



## unifutomaki

5-minute impressions of the ZEX, listening with MH755 tips/stock cable/Apple dongle:

Small and light shells. Very comfy.
Requires next to no power (comfortable listening volume on the Apple dongle is 25%)
Typical KZ bright-leaning V-shape. No surprises there.
A bit lean/thin sounding. Maybe a bit shrill on certain tracks
*Seems* to have better technicalities than one might expect at this price.


----------



## evasb (Oct 21, 2021)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2031985328.html www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003430886707.html

Can't understand what's the point of this one now.


----------



## r31ya

evasb said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2031985328.html
> 
> Can't understand what's the point of this one now.


A neutral kz?  Is it new or old? 
If its new, its a micro dd 7mm that going to clash with moondrop quarks and tanchjim tanya


----------



## Barndoor

r31ya said:


> A neutral kz?  Is it new or old?
> If its new, its a micro dd 7mm that going to clash with moondrop quarks and tanchjim tanya


No, it is an old item that can be had for $5


----------



## evasb

r31ya said:


> A neutral kz?  Is it new or old?
> If its new, its a micro dd 7mm that going to clash with moondrop quarks and tanchjim tanya


Oops, wrong link.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003430886707.html


----------



## r31ya (Oct 21, 2021)

Barndoor said:


> No, it is an old item that can be had for $5


Its interesting in tuning, 
I wish kz make another cheap bullet style iem with replacable cable like trn m10. 

I wanna see KZ/CCA fight of quarks and tanya in their price range.

----

Not sure on what kz going to bring with kz eds, 
In first glance few days ago, i was hoping its a edx with semi open back. 
But it seems to be just an faceplatr


----------



## evasb

Tribrid? I don't even received my KZ ZEX lol


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

evasb said:


> Tribrid? I don't even received my KZ ZEX lol



50/50 as to whether or not it's real.  where did you see the flyer?


----------



## lushmelody

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> 50/50 as to whether or not it's real.  where did you see the flyer?


The shells are well rendered and the graphic design follows their current standards. If it's fake then it's really well done


----------



## r31ya

evasb said:


> Tribrid? I don't even received my KZ ZEX lol


Ok, summoning all the people who swear off not buying another KZ/CCA until tribid comes along...


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

lushmelody said:


> The shells are well rendered and the graphic design follows their current standards. If it's fake then it's really well done



So was the advert for the "open back". The links keep getting disabled on that one, too. Seems like maybe it was a batch of prototypes maybe? There still aren't many specs on it or why it exists.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> Ok, summoning all the people who swear off not buying another KZ/CCA until tribid comes along...



Ready and willing! An NRA/ZEX with a BA in the mids would be amazing I think.


----------



## unifutomaki

I’ve been dedicating ear time to the ZEX and for a sub-50 dollar IEM, I really can’t find much to complain about. It’s small, well-built and easy to drive. It’s smoother and more refined than your average 1DD+1BA hybrid, without any hint of metallic timbre, screaming banshees or harshness. Bass is well-controlled, though most of it is midbass and not sub-bass. Male vocals are slightly recessed, but higher-pitched male vocals and female vocals are reproduced prominently. Hugh frequency details are present without being overwhelming, though they can seem somewhat lean, vague or distant at times. The overall signature trends towards brightness, so these wouldn’t be my preferred listen when trying to relax and wind down in the evenings.

The ZEX present a larger soundstage (in terms of width and depth) than I would expect from a budget IEM. Imaging is average; you’ll perceive 3 blobs. Overall I would recommend these for the price.


----------



## RikudouGoku

lushmelody said:


> The shells are well rendered and the graphic design follows their current standards. If it's fake then it's really well done






Its legit. 

https://www.facebook.com/EasyEarphones/posts/4878632925504024


----------



## mndless

RikudouGoku said:


> Its legit.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/EasyEarphones/posts/4878632925504024


I like how they narrowed the set down again at the faceplate. Makes it seem smaller than it actually is, and more sophisticated. I'll be curious to see what the graphs look like. Hopefully pretty good.


----------



## lushmelody (Oct 23, 2021)

mndless said:


> I like how they narrowed the set down again at the faceplate. Makes it seem smaller than it actually is, and more sophisticated. I'll be curious to see what the graphs look like. Hopefully pretty good.


Certainly their house V but still the cheapest IEM with such driver config. Impressive move market wise (imagine if it performs better than NX7 mk3 or BQEYZ Spring 2....)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

RikudouGoku said:


> Its legit.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/EasyEarphones/posts/4878632925504024


Within 45 days of NRA, KZ has launched ZEX and a Pro version as well. Very much along the expected lines.


----------



## baskingshark (Oct 23, 2021)

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Within 45 days of NRA, KZ has launched ZEX and a Pro version as well. Very much along the expected lines.



Sigh, they are back to their old ways of launching multiple sidegrades and using consumers as beta tester guinea pigs.

Throwing as much crap on the wall and hope something finally sticks.

Pokemon collection for the win!!!


----------



## evasb (Oct 23, 2021)

They launch ZEX Pro in a question of days and DQ6 still don't have its Pro version.

Hope they at least maintain the trend of playing safe with the tuning.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Sigh, they are back to their old ways of launching multiple sidegrades and using consumers as beta tester guinea pigs.
> 
> Throwing as much crap on the wall and hope something finally sticks.
> 
> Pokemon collection for the win!!!


Yes. Probably this new driver tech is what making them bullish and try everything possible to milk it to the very last drop. Same was the case with hybrids in 2017-18 when they started churning out a BA+DD set with varied driver count every 15-20 days. But now we know, if you have NRA then the pro version of ZEX will in all likelihood be a marginal upgrade. NRA Pro/Pro+ might be a little more than marginal upgrade but still not worth the investment.


----------



## dharmasteve

Although I like the KZ ZEX a lot for the silly money, I think the KZ DQ6 is better after spending few days comparing them side by side. The three DDs of the DQ6 give a much more positive 'edgy' performance than the DD and Magnetostat of the ZEX. Perhaps the BA of the upcoming KZ ZEX PRO can fill out the mids and upper mids where the DQ6 is clearly better. The triple DD of the DQ6 is a very successful combination and is a step up from the other triple DD I have got, the Dunu 380..... which has Titanium drivers. It seems that there is more room for triple DD IEMs, and there are still possibilities using 3 DD's with other driver materials. The KZ DQ6 is a great offering for so little money.


----------



## abheybir

Damn!! These are crazy good for the price, am totally #ZEXed.


----------



## unifutomaki (Oct 24, 2021)

Brief size comparison between the ZAX and the ZEX:




The black plastic used for the ZEX’s shell is way darker than that for the ZAX, so the internals can’t really be seen. ZAX is wearing Moondrop stock tips while ZEX has been given some stiff narrow bore tips that extend that nozzle a little more.




I’ve actually ordered the AZ09 Bluetooth adapter so that I can convert the ZEX into TWS beaters for exercise and other times when I don’t want to sweat all over my XM4s. Yeah, I do like these quite a bit.


----------



## lushmelody

Nothing beats DD tonality (for me). Just tired of "premium" single DD IEMs. Next KZ multi DD is the only thing I care currently 🥺 (while BLON continues disappointing...)


----------



## saldsald

So the CA 16 Pro is the CCA Version of the ZAS....


----------



## bhazard

Since I still haven't received my ZEX yet, does that mean a ZEX Pro mkII will be released while I'm waiting for my ZEX Pro delivery?


----------



## G777

bhazard said:


> Since I still haven't received my ZEX yet, does that mean a ZEX Pro mkII will be released while I'm waiting for my ZEX Pro delivery?


Maybe they'll release an NRA Pro first 😆


----------



## Aparker2005

I've been off the iem train for a bit. Current have DQ6, CCA-CA16, and my dual driver custom Ultimate ears. 

I'm a drummer and use my iems for stage use, and listening to music. With Christmas around the corner, I was looking at the AST. Are those worth the money to most here? 

Any KZ/CCA I should be looking into? Thanks everyone!


----------



## courierdriver

unifutomaki said:


> Brief size comparison between the ZAX and the ZEX:
> 
> 
> The black plastic used for the ZEX’s shell is way darker than that for the ZAX, so the internals can’t really be seen. ZAX is wearing Moondrop stock tips while ZEX has been given some stiff narrow bore tips that extend that nozzle a little more.
> ...


Got the NRA and the ZAX...as well as DQ6 and ZS10 pro. Haven't spun up the ZS10 PRO recently; but the others have spent much time in  my ears. Imho, the NRA is at the bottom. The bass is great; but the mids are way too reduced for my library. Highs are not detailed enough for my liking either...which makes me think that the ZEX wouldn't appeal to me either. Imho, if it's within someone's budget, I'd definitely go an extra few bucks for the DQ6. Better yet; if you can afford it, get both the DQ6 and ZAX. DQ6 has a more smooth analog sound; ZAX is more detailed.
Aliexpress's 11/11 sale is coming up very soon. You could probably get both for under $80.


----------



## profusion

I have DQ6, so is getting ZEX not worth it?


----------



## JEHL

To my understanding the tweeter on the ZEX/NRA uses low voltage/high current rather than the other way around that ESTs actually work?


----------



## r31ya

saldsald said:


> So the CA 16 Pro is the CCA Version of the ZAS....


Yup, CCA 16 but with Xun Driver and Black BAs.
I hope they level up the bass quality and the clarity. if i recalled it right CCA 16 is a bit warm-ish compared to CKX.


----------



## saldsald

r31ya said:


> Yup, CCA 16 but with Xun Driver and Black BAs.
> I hope they level up the bass quality and the clarity. if i recalled it right CCA 16 is a bit warm-ish compared to CKX.


The BAs are exactly the same as the ZAS. The XUN driver probably has an updated back. I feel that KX/CCA is being a bit lazy to reinvent and the 'new' CA16 Pro may sound very similar to thr ZAS.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Oct 24, 2021)

More detailed photo


----------



## mndless

Mr.HiAudio said:


> More detailed photo


At the very least, KZ is doing better with their aesthetics. The way they have the shell narrow down again at the faceplate makes them look quite nice and sophisticated. Now we wait to see if they retune things to make better use of the magnetostat driver since they're adding a BA to handle, presumably, the mids. Of course, this is KZ, so there's no telling if they'll take the expected approach of if they'll do something unexpected like use the BA for treble extension or something. We can only wait and see if they'll provide useful info or if we will need a brave soul to buy one and rip it apart to analyze it.


----------



## mndless

saldsald said:


> The BAs are exactly the same as the ZAS. The XUN driver probably has an updated back. I feel that KX/CCA is being a bit lazy to reinvent and the 'new' CA16 Pro may sound very similar to thr ZAS.


I think the BAs are implemented slightly differently than in the ZAS, so it's possible that it'll be tuned differently just because of that. I just wouldn't hold out a lot of hope that they'll actually sound meaningfully different. I would like for them to take the opportunity to make a proper replacement for the CKX with this model, but yeah. I definitely agree that expectations should be kept low.


----------



## SoundChoice

Aparker2005 said:


> I've been off the iem train for a bit. Current have DQ6, CCA-CA16, and my dual driver custom Ultimate ears.
> 
> I'm a drummer and use my iems for stage use, and listening to music. With Christmas around the corner, I was looking at the AST. Are those worth the money to most here?
> 
> Any KZ/CCA I should be looking into? Thanks everyone!


The AST’s are so March and 7 releases ago.


----------



## Tzennn

profusion said:


> I have DQ6, so is getting ZEX not worth it?


I don't think ZEX is better than DQ6. 
ZEX more like warm but energetic set which good for rock, everything else sound better on DQ6. Also soundstage on DQ6 is really huge, bigger than GK10.


----------



## mndless

Tzennn said:


> I don't think ZEX is better than DQ6.
> ZEX more like warm but energetic set which good for rock, everything else sound better on DQ6. Also soundstage on DQ6 is really huge, bigger than GK10.


Not to mention that KZ tends to have better quality control compared to Geek Wold, particularly with regards to the GK10.


----------



## Tzennn

mndless said:


> Not to mention that KZ tends to have better quality control compared to Geek Wold, particularly with regards to the GK10.


Now we even have GK10 competitor! ZEX pro look promising


----------



## mndless

Tzennn said:


> Now we even have GK10 competitor! ZEX pro look promising


Especially so since magnetostat drivers are more likely to have a natural timbre compared to piezo drivers. I'd really like the real-world graphs to have the sub-bass gain that the company's graphs show, but that's not particularly likely to happen, as KZ really likes to exaggerate such things. Maybe their Xun driver could do it, but the graphs from the original ZEX and NRA definitely have sub-bass roll off, which is unfortunate. Having heard sets with DD that have proper sub-bass and bass curves with minimal sub-bass roll-off down to 20Hz like the GS Audio GD3A, GD5, and GD7B, I can definitely say that an extremely competent handling of sub-bass rumble can significantly impact the rest of the bass response. Having excessive sub-bass roll-off leads to the bass sounding vaguely hollow, as was my experience with the GK10.

The GD3A may be expensive by KZ standards at $86+S&H, but the way it sounds makes it irrelevant to bother trying to collect the KZ sets until you arrive at something you're satisfied with. I'm definitely looking forward to their upcoming GD3C, which will be based on @RikudouGoku 's reference curve, so I expect a substantial amount of bass.


----------



## Tzennn

mndless said:


> Especially so since magnetostat drivers are more likely to have a natural timbre compared to piezo drivers. I'd really like the real-world graphs to have the sub-bass gain that the company's graphs show, but that's not particularly likely to happen, as KZ really likes to exaggerate such things. Maybe their Xun driver could do it, but the graphs from the original ZEX and NRA definitely have sub-bass roll off, which is unfortunate. Having heard sets with DD that have proper sub-bass and bass curves with minimal sub-bass roll-off down to 20Hz like the GS Audio GD3A, GD5, and GD7B, I can definitely say that an extremely competent handling of sub-bass rumble can significantly impact the rest of the bass response. Having excessive sub-bass roll-off leads to the bass sounding vaguely hollow, as was my experience with the GK10.
> 
> The GD3A may be expensive by KZ standards at $86+S&H, but the way it sounds makes it irrelevant to bother trying to collect the KZ sets until you arrive at something you're satisfied with. I'm definitely looking forward to their upcoming GD3C, which will be based on @RikudouGoku 's reference curve, so I expect a substantial amount of bass.


Well just hope that ZEX pro will sound like DQ6 with better clarity and mid. If not then maybe i have to buy GD3 as an upgrade over DQ6. What if they use Sonion BA mid for their ZEX pro? With a 50$ price tag.


----------



## mndless

Tzennn said:


> Well just hope that ZEX pro will sound like DQ6 with better clarity and mid. If not then maybe i have to buy GD3 as an upgrade over DQ6. What if they use Sonion BA mid for their ZEX pro? With a 50$ price tag.


Bellsing drivers can be good, so there isn't necessarily a need to raise the price by using them if you can tune the Bellsing drivers well enough. It just makes it easier and more reliable to use brand name drivers. The GD3A are currently available and do sound fantastic. The GD3C are still being tuned, and GS Audio haven't provided any indication of when they think they'll have it available for purchase.

If you do decide to buy the GD3A or GD3C, be aware that GS Audio offers customization options that you can order such as custom shell colors and faceplates, metal nozzles, different connectors, etc. Check out the first post on the GS Audio Impressions thread for more info.


----------



## dharmasteve (Oct 25, 2021)

The KZ ZEX Pro does make sense. The basic ZEX itself is a really nice sounding IEM and is silly cheap for the performance. Its drawback for me is the that mids are a little behind on the spacial stage and is not great for some vocals.  Still its good and I doubt if anybody would dislike the sound profile, it really is very good. By adding a BA, I think, shows KZ themselves are aware of this and are trying to improve the mids with a BA in the ZEX Pro. If KZ get it right, and with KZ it is always an 'IF', they could have a bit of a giant slayer on their hands. I hope they do get it right because KZ have been a great servant to those of us who don't have massive free cash to spend. A DD, BA and a Magnetostat sounds a really good formula to me. I do find that KZ cables are better nowadays, especially the KZ upgrade cables, but I always upgrade the tips to JVC Spiral Dots or AZLA Sednas. Im really looking forwards to the ZEX Pro.


----------



## Tzennn

What "IF" they mess up ZEX PRO and make NRA PRO. And then mess up NRA pro and release ZEX PRO X and make ZES or something. Just "IF"


----------



## dharmasteve (Oct 25, 2021)

Tzennn said:


> What "IF" they mess up ZEX PRO and make NRA PRO. And then mess up NRA pro and release ZEX PRO X and make ZES or something. Just "IF"


"Then the world as we know it is finished Batman"


----------



## axhng

dharmasteve said:


> Although I like the KZ ZEX a lot for the silly money, I think the KZ DQ6 is better after spending few days comparing them side by side. The three DDs of the DQ6 give a much more positive 'edgy' performance than the DD and Magnetostat of the ZEX. *Perhaps the BA of the upcoming KZ ZEX PRO can fill out the mids and upper mids* where the DQ6 is clearly better. The triple DD of the DQ6 is a very successful combination and is a step up from the other triple DD I have got, the Dunu 380..... which has Titanium drivers. It seems that there is more room for triple DD IEMs, and there are still possibilities using 3 DD's with other driver materials. The KZ DQ6 is a great offering for so little money.


+1 to this. If they can use the BA driver to fill out the mids and upper mids in the ZEX Pro, it would be an interesting set. Though I kinda prefer the bass on the NRA a bit more, so maybe the NRA Pro (if they do decide to make one) might be a better bet? 🤣


----------



## jant71

axhng said:


> +1 to this. If they can use the BA driver to fill out the mids and upper mids in the ZEX Pro, it would be an interesting set. Though I kinda prefer the bass on the NRA a bit more, so maybe the NRA Pro (if they do decide to make one) might be a better bet? 🤣


Or going tri-brid just caues it gets a lot of consumers excited but in reality mixing 3 different types creates more problems than it solves especially under $50. Maybe go a different route. That is where KZ goes wrong at times. You could take the same set up and make it a better implementation and use a better cable. Besides, not sure about this BA for the mids thing anyway. Also, if the DQ6 does a better in the mids it isn't doing it with a BA so can't start to correlate the two. 

A main point of magnetostat is to be more dynamic friendly and easier to blend together than armatures do with dynamics. If they have to follow the more drivers is better they could have used a second dynamic and a refined or better version or implementation of the magneto. I'd be more interested in that one.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

It's funny. I think there's way more pressure on KZ to produce a perfect-for-everyone sub $50 IEM than there is on other brands at the $500 mark to keep a smaller yet loyal following happy.  

The big news IMO about ZEX / NRA is that they sound about as good at $25 as KZ and CCA's $50-85 pairs. I can't really say that I prefer $75 BA10 over the $25 NRA, and certainly I do prefer C12's dynamic bass over that unit over BA10 for many (but not all) things. So much of KZ's catalog is a comparative sidegrade over the much cheaper NRA, ZEX, and as some have argued, even compared to DQ6. That's the big news closing out this year I think. 

I must admit that, over time, all of my KZ stuff has started to sound more similar than different which seems to mimic the attitudes of a lot of online reviewers who grew tired of endless release schedule.  KZ produce new units that seem more like the result of some parts-bin recombinator than a concerted effort to produce and tune a higher quality product. Sometimes I start to wonder if the photoshop whiz for their flyers isn't also the main product manager.

Having said all that, I do think KZ is still the best bang-for-buck brand going in consumer audio. Their capabilities as a single company seems to keep the entirety of Shenzhen chifi industry on their tip-toes, and precludes most EU/US companies from even pretending  to compete at this price point.  Koss is the only vendor that really comes close, but their target customer base is quite a bit different. 

</worthless_opining> 

just waiting on either zex pro or nra pro to drop.


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

Mates, check out my review on KZ ZEX.

Link:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-zex.25502/reviews#review-27117


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> It's funny. I think there's way more pressure on KZ to produce a perfect-for-everyone sub $50 IEM than there is on other brands at the $500 mark to keep a smaller yet loyal following happy.
> 
> The big news IMO about ZEX / NRA is that they sound about as good at $25 as KZ and CCA's $50-85 pairs. I can't really say that I prefer $75 BA10 over the $25 NRA, and certainly I do prefer C12's dynamic bass over that unit over BA10 for many (but not all) things. So much of KZ's catalog is a comparative sidegrade over the much cheaper NRA, ZEX, and as some have argued, even compared to DQ6. That's the big news closing out this year I think.
> 
> ...


To add even KZ EDX sounds same as NRA. Now that's a 4x difference in value yet marginal to no sound improvement at all.

The best or the worst thing about KZ is that they make you feel stupid as well as elated for giving a product that is very consistent across all price points.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Oh boy, here we go again. Third time's the charm










These high-density tuning foams are great for the DQ6. Essentially the Hana filter, except these are only 2 usd for 20 pieces lol.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002711483821.html





The low-density version doesnt really do anything though.



Installation:
You simply remove the stock filter by taking a tweezer and pressing down on it and pull it back up (be careful to not ruin it if you wanna reuse the stock filter). Then drop the tuning foam in the nozzle and press it down so it stays in there.


----------



## RikudouGoku

So, mr. KZ where is that DQ6 Pro? There are a few recipe´s out there you know? Feel free to steal them.   

Pick your poison:

1. DIY Foam mod

2. Tanchjim Filters

3. Tuning Foams


----------



## jant71

RikudouGoku said:


> So, mr. KZ where is that DQ6 Pro? There are a few recipe´s out there you know? Feel free to steal them.
> 
> Pick your poison:
> 
> ...



Gotta stop the watering down of the term "Pro" though. Call it the DQ6 II if you just get a better tuning. Pro should be better ability and tuning and maybe better accessories as well.


----------



## courierdriver

profusion said:


> I have DQ6, so is getting ZEX not worth it?


In my honest opinion, no. But it depends on what kind of sound signature you like or are looking for. It depends on what you are looking to improve upon with the DQ6. It also depends on your music library. I like and listen to music of many different genres. The DQ6 is not great with every type...which is why it's good to have many different types of iems. If I can give anyone just one piece of advice; it would be that there is no single iem, headphone, or speakers that can do everything perfectly. You need to get many sets if you listen to multiple genres. Same goes for daps, dacs, dac/amps, amps. Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> Gotta stop the watering down of the term "Pro" though. Call it the DQ6 II if you just get a better tuning. Pro should be better ability and tuning and maybe better accessories as well.


True, cuz Pro would also be more expensive.


----------



## axhng

jant71 said:


> Gotta stop the watering down of the term "Pro" though. Call it the DQ6 II if you just get a better tuning. Pro should be better ability and tuning and maybe better accessories as well.


or DQ6 X is always an option too, like ZST X, ZSN Pro X.


----------



## lushmelody

Like BLON just launched a new color for BL-03, just wish KZ could do the same with DQ6 🤧 (And maybe tame the harshness for a "Pro" thing just don't charge way much more 🥺). Then boom a 4 DD or 3 DD+MST lmao


----------



## mndless

I'd love for KZ to make a set that straight-up outperforms the GS Audio GD3A, but that seems unlikely. They seem to insist on just throwing more drivers at the problem in an attempt to improve performance without spending the effort to ensure that their enclosure and sound tube designs suit the tuning they're going for. Unfortunately, the tuning their going for is also part of the problem. I will acknowledge that their primary audience has fairly specific genre-based tuning requirements, but it makes their sets largely unsuitable for other genres. The AST was a pretty significant departure from their typical tuning, but they made it way too dark. Same problem with the ZAS. They really need to move past their standby of the 30095 series HF BA drivers and explore other options. LS and Bellsing offer so many other good drivers that could be used, but they've over-invested in the 30095 series, which has timbre and peak issues. I do appreciate that they're finally moving toward 3D printed sound tubes for some of their sets, so there's some tuning potential for that, but they still need to work on getting their drivers phase aligned and transience-matched to improve coherency. And, to be frank, getting a set with a lower driver count to be coherent is far easier than fighting with 12 BAs or 7 BAs and a relatively slow DD.


----------



## evasb (Oct 25, 2021)

It is a bit sad that KZ people don't realize how much weight their brand have -- even if they became a joke with part of the community recently.

If they hire good tuners, tune their current tech better and buy better drivers (instead of more) to do a decent $100 IEM (with a good cable and good tips at least) it would sell pretty good.


----------



## r31ya

I just bought Moondrop Aria with understanding that i won't buy another IEM this year...
but KZ ZEX just become "ready stock" at USD $22 in my local store..
Please give me strength to wait at least till KZ ZEX Pro.


----------



## mndless

r31ya said:


> I just bought Moondrop Aria with understanding that i won't buy another IEM this year...
> but KZ ZEX just become "ready stock" at USD $22 in my local store..
> Please give me strength to wait at least till KZ ZEX Pro.


The ZEX Pro look a lot better than the standard ZEX, at least in my opinion. Especially the black on black model, which looks super sophisticated since they made the shell and faceplate narrow back down. Hopefully they're fairly coherent, though that definitely isn't KZ's strong suit when they decide to mix and match driver types. And sometimes even when they don't.


----------



## Tzennn

r31ya said:


> I just bought Moondrop Aria with understanding that i won't buy another IEM this year...
> but KZ ZEX just become "ready stock" at USD $22 in my local store..
> Please give me strength to wait at least till KZ ZEX Pro.


Just wait. Mine come with 13$ and free shipping so...


----------



## G777

mndless said:


> The ZEX Pro look a lot better than the standard ZEX, at least in my opinion. Especially the black on black model, which looks super sophisticated since they made the shell and faceplate narrow back down. Hopefully they're fairly coherent, though that definitely isn't KZ's strong suit when they decide to mix and match driver types. And sometimes even when they don't.


The silver and black one reminds me of Moondrop Variations 😆


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

the waiting is purgatory


----------



## profusion

The force is with me! I'm not buying anything else from my DQ6, unless there is a upgradable set with such analog vinyl type signature DDs providing even more for 50-60$. Fullstop! LOL (and I mean it!)


----------



## ExTubeGamer

I'm waiting for the DQ7. Expecting 6 DDs minimum.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

I just picked up the DQ6, still in burn in so haven't been able to judge it yet.

But, when will the KZ ZEX pro be available? Does anybody know.


----------



## whirlwind

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> the waiting is purgatory


Ha....got a good laugh from this.

I am still rockin' my KS10 Pro and Zax...love them both


----------



## PhonoPhi

ZEX in blue (officially "graphite") materialized (made on Oct 14)




The trilayer structure and the shade of blue are really nice.
The same plastic matrix as NRA, looks a bit neater in internals, such as soldering.
No discernable difference between DDs from the top, but the ZEX aluminum plate definitelty has more volume, so possibly the difference is deep inside:



ZEX will be burned now for a day or two


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ExTubeGamer said:


> I'm waiting for the DQ7. Expecting 6 DDs minimum.



That would be amazing. 

Here's my dream KZ: I'd call it BCN: dual bass 22955s, and a single 8mm carbon nanotube microdriver for mids and treble.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> ZEX in blue (officially "graphite") materialized (made on Oct 14)
> 
> 
> The trilayer structure and the shade of blue are really nice.
> ...



Those are pretty!


----------



## jagujetas72

Honestly, I'm not impressed often when it comes to the ultrabudget range. But this, this was a pleasant suprise. Do check my review out if you're interested in learning more about the ZEX.

KZ ZEX Review:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-zex.25502/review/27133/


----------



## Tzennn

How about check out the newest KZ EDS first ?.






Retail at 11$ (my country)


----------



## MoonAndStar (Oct 27, 2021)

Hey people, figured I'd ask for my recommendation here: I bought the KZ ZAS recently and was less than impressed. Mids seem buried, bass is bloated. I was under the impression that these were more or less a direct improvement upon the ZSX, they are quite different. Also the inline mic is terrible.

Liked the ATE
Thought the ZST was good too
Hated the Blon03 (poor ear fit, didn't live up to the hype)
ZSX is the closest to what I might consider "all-day listenable". But they broke.

So, as a newbie. I'll just ask: what do I like? Any brand will do. Under $100 preferably.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 27, 2021)

MoonAndStar said:


> Hey people, figured I'd ask for my recommendation here: I bought the KZ ZAS recently and was less than impressed. Mids seem buried, bass is bloated. I was under the impression that these were more or less a direct improvement upon the ZSX, they are quite different. Also the inline mic is terrible.
> 
> Liked the ATE
> Thought the ZST was good too
> ...


Tripowin Mele or Moondrop Aria. If you can stretch your budget to $200, the 7Hz Timeless is tough to beat.


----------



## ChristianM

Does KZ ZEX sound better than KZ ZSX? I have KZ ZSX with KZ gold silver mix cable that I use with my Fiio M3K.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ChristianM said:


> Does KZ ZEX sound better than KZ ZSX? I have KZ ZSX with KZ gold silver mix cable that I use with my Fiio M3K.



I've got both CCA equivalents, the NRA and C12 (same driver layout as ZSX, a bit less vee shaped). Both are some of my favorite pairs but each is a side-grade to the other IMO. 

I think of KZs catalog (and most of chifi) as being more like flavors of ice cream than being a strictly ranked scale of worse/better.  Occasionally I get a hankering for butternut pecan (BA10) but on any given day I'm alright with strawberry (C12).


----------



## ChristianM

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I've got both CCA equivalents, the NRA and C12 (same driver layout as ZSX, a bit less vee shaped). Both are some of my favorite pairs but each is a side-grade to the other IMO.
> 
> I think of KZs catalog (and most of chifi) as being more like flavors of ice cream than being a strictly ranked scale of worse/better.  Occasionally I get a hankering for butternut pecan (BA10) but on any given day I'm alright with strawberry (C12).


Thanks for reply, so you mean ZSX is better than ZEX (in my case)? I was thinking about selling my ZSX and buy ZEX. $20 is much if you live in a corrupt country like mine.


----------



## profusion

Why is the hype on ZEX as they are not better that DQ6? And moreover when we will see the upgrade of DQ6?


----------



## ChristianM

Don't know what's the hype but ZEX have decent reviews on youtube and I also read some reviews on aliexpress and some say it sound better than ZSX & ZAX, and ZEX sound like $150-200 IEMs.


----------



## unifutomaki (Oct 28, 2021)

ChristianM said:


> Don't know what's the hype but ZEX have decent reviews on youtube and I also read some reviews on aliexpress and some say it sound better than ZSX & ZAX, and ZEX sound like $150-200 IEMs.


The ZEX are _good_ for what they are, but they definitely do not sound like $150-200 IEMs. (source: has a $150-200 IEM)

Edit: That statement is perhaps somewhat unqualified, so let me clarify what I mean:

Test track: メビウス (Mebius) - めいちゃん, CD rip, ALAC
Setup: iPhone 12 -> Earmen Eagle, volume matched by ear



_ZEX (purchased for USD 22)_

Bass notes sound somewhat diffuse
Instruments and vocals are in the same plane in terms of depth, although there is *some* width
Vocals sound a tad flat and one dimensional, there's not enough resolution
Cymbals lack snap, are a bit vague

_A4000 (purchased for USD 163)_

Bass is less in quantity but sounds tighter, faster, kicks harder
Male vocals have depth, subtle details, bloom, forward presentation
Layered soundstage, each instrument occupies a different front-to-back position in addition to width
Cymbals are crashing, shimmering, sharp attack and decay

So... well... the ZEX are fine for the price. I intend to convert mine into budget TWS IEMs for exercising with. But even the Aria sound better if you're really paying attention.


----------



## dharmasteve

The KZ ZEX is about $20. It is extremely listenable. Will you think 'I wish I wasn't listening to these'...…I doubt it. You will find it easy to get lost in the music listening through the KZ ZEX. There is always something better in our earphone hobby, but if an earphone allows you to lose yourselves in the music, it is good. The KZ ZEX does that for about $20. There are better IEMs, but I doubt if you will be wishing you were listening to something else. For $20, the ZEX is amazing.


----------



## lushmelody

This 11.11 budget Chi-Fi

KZ/CCA: MST (EST wannabe, eh?) hype + the cheapest tribrid
TRN: Knowles BAs
BLON: DD as always. They try to improve the BL-03 formula but can't even get close to it lol
KBEAR:


----------



## ChristianM

Well the ZEX Pro is about to come out...
https://www.facebook.com/EasyEarphones/posts/4878632925504024


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 28, 2021)

Wow thats the first tribrid IEM KZ ever make.


----------



## Ceeluh7

ChristianM said:


> Well the ZEX Pro is about to come out...
> https://www.facebook.com/EasyEarphones/posts/4878632925504024


I have the Zex coming today, curious how well KZ is going to incorporate a dynamic as well as BA. I'm assuming that the MST may take on the Mids? Man KZ is moving quick


----------



## MoonAndStar (Oct 28, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> Tripowin Mele or Moondrop Aria. If you can stretch your budget to $200, the 7Hz Timeless is tough to beat.


I continually get recommended all 3. Perhaps there's room for all of them on this upcoming 11.11 sale.

I'm really just trying to avoid the bass bloom. Which took me by surprise. Perhaps I prefer more mids forward I dunno.


----------



## lushmelody

MoonAndStar said:


> I continually get recommended all 3. Perhaps there's room for all of them on this upcoming 11.11 sale.
> 
> I'm really just trying to avoid the bass bloom. Which took me by surprise. Perhaps I prefer more mids forward I dunno.


The 7hz requires a source investment tho because is a planar driver. Still manageable if your budget is $300+ USD I guess. If I had a Global North budget, I would do the same (its easier to sell the ones you shelf there too)


----------



## voicemaster

lushmelody said:


> The 7hz requires a source investment tho because is a planar driver. Still manageable if your budget is $300+ USD I guess. If I had a Global North budget, I would do the same (its easier to sell the ones you shelf there too)


Not true. It does scale well with better amping, but even pairing it with my BT20s pro, it has enough power and volume. The difference is the bass actually get a bit flatter, less punchy and not as fully bodied. The tonality and timbre are hard to beat.


----------



## MoonAndStar

voicemaster said:


> Not true. It does scale well with better amping, but even pairing it with my BT20s pro, it has enough power and volume. The difference is the bass actually get a bit flatter, less punchy and not as fully bodied. The tonality and timbre are hard to beat.


I guess I should say I have an Objective2/ODAC when at a desktop, but I'd be driving these mostly on my LG smartphone.


----------



## voicemaster

MoonAndStar said:


> I guess I should say I have an Objective2/ODAC when at a desktop, but I'd be driving these mostly on my LG smartphone.


The one with quad DAC?


----------



## MoonAndStar

voicemaster said:


> The one with quad DAC?


Yes. A V60.


----------



## robbomanx2

Im curious if anybody has gotten the KZ zex and also owns the trn 90? How do they compare to each other? My v90 died a while back, now using my older KZ ed16. I'm thinking about buying the zex on 11.11

Would be interesting to hear a small comparison  between the 2


----------



## r31ya (Oct 29, 2021)

TRNV90?
if i recalled it right, its a bassy smooth IEM, i tried it for very short time in store. so recollection might be a problem.
You'll get something similar with Trip Mele or you could wait for KZ ZEX Pro for something possibly closer to what V90 original price segment (KZ ZS-series contender)

That being said, i still ponder on buying ZEX this weekend. I could reason to myself as buying a gift for my recently married coworker who begun to listen to music with iem.


----------



## leeperry

I've no interest in IEM's that pass over the ear, prolly isolate too much from outside noise and make you look like wearing hearing aids, I think my golden ticket is ED9 with short nozzles + CP100(much better than CP145) , any other eartip to try please? Available on AE if any possible


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ChristianM said:


> Don't know what's the hype but ZEX have decent reviews on youtube and I also read some reviews on aliexpress and some say it sound better than ZSX & ZAX, and ZEX sound like $150-200 IEMs.



Some were comparing GK10 to $500-1000 IEM. I could believe it for certain pairs of overpriced garbage. There's way more subjective gray area here than some would have you to believe for their hard and fast rankings. For certain tracks the Geek really does  shine, especially on a clean balanced source. 

I think this pair of Heart Mirrors lives up to it's giant killer hype, and they only cost me 43 euros, shipped. I doubt I'm going to do a review on them as so many have already extolled their virtues, but they're a very good pair for under $50 as many others here have repeatedly called out. 

I'm not at all doubtful that ZEX are indeed better than some 150-200 pairs. Same for ZAX, which is still an excellent set imo with a lot of transparency and great imaging when using a balanced amp. 

So many of the reviews on head-fi are by purists who refuse to EQ to taste. This is logical folly and just plain lazy imo. It's true that a bad pair of phones can't be fixed with EQ, but a good pair can generally be tuned to a great one with minimal time investment. 

Re: A4000 - there are plenty of detractors about that set and I've read a few lukewarm reviews. Despite that, A4000 have been on my short list but like the Spring 2 peizos at the same price, I'm not at all convinced they're better than my budget pairs. 

My .02 pence


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

My new hookup this week is the BA10 on the powerdac v2.1 and a new pair of balanced litz cables from XINHS. 320 mW into 32 ohms. Holeeeee fuuuuuuudgeeee (except i didn't say fudge!). Starline tips still getting the job done. 

I think E1DA is KZ's spirit animal.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

profusion said:


> Why is the hype on ZEX as they are not better that DQ6? And moreover when we will see the upgrade of DQ6?


I bought the DQ6 last week and now its my go to iem. Its knocked the tripowin off first place.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Ceeluh7 said:


> I have the Zex coming today, curious how well KZ is going to incorporate a dynamic as well as BA. I'm assuming that the MST may take on the Mids? Man KZ is moving quick


Sorry, whats the driver config. Are you talking about zex pro?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Do we know when the zex pro is coming and what drivers it will have?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 29, 2021)

I really liked ZEX surprisingly more than NRA, not because they are drastically different (likely not, though DD can be different and feel more refined in KZ), but because of the synergy.
I started to use ZEX with Tempotec E44, and it really worked nicely - crisp, clean and analytical (to my ears) E44 paired really well with ZEX that is gentle (if not to say "somewhat lacking") in treble.

The new KZ driver is a magnetic rigid membrane (bottom of the image) suspended between two coils (an upper part of the image, one is disassembled):




Magnetostat it can be - OK, if to consider by a broad definition; EST - no way; more really of a reverse-engineered microphone design made to produce sounds,  as you could read from KZ. Somewhat limited - not much response  above 12 kHz (measured by power consumption).
But then it synergizes well with a DD, and where it works - can sound really nice; then for some genres/sound - you would feel it being artificial.
Overally, ZEX is amazing for $20, nothing less.

What BAs will be used in ZEX pro (likely treble (?)) and how they will work together is a bit of a hard puzzle for me, but under $40 - I will be happy to serve as a beta tester for KZ 

P. S. Editing typos


----------



## evasb

EST or not, what chifi IEM used something like this before?


----------



## voicemaster

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Do we know when the zex pro is coming and what drivers it will have?


It has 1x Dynamic Driver, 1x Magnetostatic Driver and 1x BA.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

voicemaster said:


> It has 1x Dynamic Driver, 1x Magnetostatic Driver and 1x BA.


That sounds killer.


----------



## voicemaster (Oct 29, 2021)

evasb said:


> EST or not, what chifi IEM used something like this before?


Ermm... Unique Melody, Moondrop, and many more Chi-fi lol. I am talking about tri-brid IEM unless you are talking about Magnetostatic driver used in KZ ZEX.


----------



## Ceeluh7

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I bought the DQ6 last week and now its my go to iem. Its knocked the tripowin off first place.


After burn in the Zex Def holds its own, it is a good set. The DQ6 is very nice but I have them neck and neck along with the EDX pro... Kz is doing good things. All of these are helped alot by tip changes.


----------



## evasb

voicemaster said:


> Ermm... Unique Melody, Moondrop, and many more Chi-fi lol. I am talking about tri-brid IEM unless you are talking about Magnetostatic driver used in KZ ZEX.


The magnostatic driver


Ceeluh7 said:


> After burn in the Zex Def holds its own, it is a good set. The DQ6 is very nice but I have them neck and neck along with the EDX pro... Kz is doing good things. All of these are helped alot by tip changes.


KZ needs to drop these trash white tips.


----------



## Ceeluh7

evasb said:


> The magnostatic driver
> 
> KZ needs to drop these trash white tips.


Totally agree man....i had to sift thru my endless cavern of tips and found some which suit this set well. I actually am very impressed by them, they are very capable iems with good tonality for..... 20 bucks.... Ridiculous


----------



## voicemaster

ZEX is going to need some miracle to impress me. I got 7hz Timeless and Mele 2 weeks ago and my KATO just arrived today. 
Will be ordering ZEX pro when it is release tho.


----------



## r31ya

voicemaster said:


> ZEX is going to need some miracle to impress me. I got 7hz Timeless and Mele 2 weeks ago and my KATO just arrived today.
> Will be ordering ZEX pro when it is release tho.


Timeless, Mele, and Kato... Those are heavy weight man.
But i wanna see how far $20 can go in comparison to them. Especially the $50 Trip Mele who supposedly have similar sig


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Re: 7hz timeless - there's something about the shape of those that really bother me.  I think I finally put my finger on it.


----------



## mndless

r31ya said:


> Timeless, Mele, and Kato... Those are heavy weight man.
> But i wanna see how far $20 can go in comparison to them. Especially the $50 Trip Mele who supposedly have similar sig


If you're in an area Amazon services, try these with just about any other eartips:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085PPYY4D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They really did impress me with their comfortably bass-y casual listening sound. If you've got the DioFit Multi-flanged eartips, throw a set of those on for even nicer treble smoothness. They really do have great sub-bass and midbass impact for a 6mm DD, and the small driver helps them maintain decent treble performance as well. A friend of mine was impressed enough that he decided to buy several so he can use them in situations where his Kinera NanNa 2.0 might be at risk, like when he goes running. A sub-$20 set earning praise from someone who dailies a $900 set of IEMs is a pretty good metric for how they sound. They certainly aren't going to rival his NanNa, but they have a similar sound signature, so they're great for something that could be considered disposable if they get lost or damaged.


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> My new hookup this week is the BA10 on the powerdac v2.1 and a new pair of balanced litz cables from XINHS. 320 mW into 32 ohms. Holeeeee fuuuuuuudgeeee (except i didn't say fudge!). Starline tips still getting the job done.
> 
> I think E1DA is KZ's spirit animal.


+1 for BA10 and Starlines. Just add a pure copper cable and you are good to go!


----------



## axhng

mndless said:


> If you're in an area Amazon services, try these with just about any other eartips:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085PPYY4D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> They really did impress me with their comfortably bass-y casual listening sound. If you've got the DioFit Multi-flanged eartips, throw a set of those on for even nicer treble smoothness. They really do have great sub-bass and midbass impact for a 6mm DD, and the small driver helps them maintain decent treble performance as well. A friend of mine was impressed enough that he decided to buy several so he can use them in situations where his Kinera NanNa 2.0 might be at risk, like when he goes running. A sub-$20 set earning praise from someone who dailies a $900 set of IEMs is a pretty good metric for how they sound. They certainly aren't going to rival his NanNa, but they have a similar sound signature, so they're great for something that could be considered disposable if they get lost or damaged.





I wonder if these are the same. they even use the same stock photo. lol. someone shared this model on headfi earlier this ear I think, so it's nice to see some feedback on it. The one on amazon is cheaper though, it's like 30SGD on amazon sg. While I like the Yamaha EPH200-esque design, it didn't seem like a great deal at that time considering the original EPH200 was going for like 88SGD where I live early last year.


----------



## mndless (Oct 30, 2021)

axhng said:


> I wonder if these are the same. they even use the same stock photo. lol. someone shared this model on headfi earlier this ear I think, so it's nice to see some feedback on it. The one on amazon is cheaper though, it's like 30SGD on amazon sg. While I like the Yamaha EPH200-esque design, it didn't seem like a great deal at that time considering the original EPH200 was going for like 88SGD where I live early last year.


I think the Pro model uses different drivers, so I'm sure they will sound quite different. If that price is in USD, then they're also quite a bit more expensive.

Edit: for reference, the ones on Amazon are the regular E-13, not the Pro model, so I don't have any listening impressions for the Pro model.


----------



## axhng

mndless said:


> I think the Pro model uses different drivers, so I'm sure they will sound quite different. If that price is in USD, then they're also quite a bit more expensive.


it's is SGD, so around 35USD which is still a lot more expensive than the one you shared.  I wonder if they use the same packaging. This is the one shared on that shopee store Jietu.


----------



## mndless

axhng said:


> it's is SGD, so around 35USD which is still a lot more expensive than the one you shared.  I wonder if they use the same packaging. This is the one shared on that shopee store Jietu.


They do use the same packaging, but the non-pro model doesn't come with the 4.4mm adapter. If you can find the standard version, I'd recommend them. They're cheap and sound pretty great for what they are. Probably on par with $70-90 USD sets, which is pretty impressive. They aren't quite as good as the GD3A from GS Audio, but those are hybrids, so I wouldn't really expect them to beat those at a 4x price difference. If you don't want to pick apart your music to hunt down details then the E13 are plenty enjoyable.


----------



## Ceeluh7

axhng said:


> I wonder if these are the same. they even use the same stock photo. lol. someone shared this model on headfi earlier this ear I think, so it's nice to see some feedback on it. The one on amazon is cheaper though, it's like 30SGD on amazon sg. While I like the Yamaha EPH200-esque design, it didn't seem like a great deal at that time considering the original EPH200 was going for like 88SGD where I live early last year.


I saw these on Amazon a while back.... Was going to purchase for a beater pair... But there is so much good chi-fi for around that price, plus no reviews so.... Never got em. You say they sound decent, maybe I'll check them out. I don't mind the form factor and removable cables...


----------



## axhng (Oct 30, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> I saw these on Amazon a while back.... Was going to purchase for a beater pair... But there is so much good chi-fi for around that price, plus no reviews so.... Never got em. You say they sound decent, maybe I'll check them out. I don't mind the form factor and removable cables...


I've not tried them, but mndless' feedback on it seems promising. but like you mentioned, just so many cheap chi-fi stuff around that price that are also plenty enjoyable to listen to. I'll probably just KIV for now. The Yamaha EPH-200 was decent sounding and I love the design, but i struggle a bit to get a deep enough fit with them since my ear canal seems smaller. And if these E13 are the same size, it might not be suitable for my ears too, so i'm a bit hesitant personally


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> My new hookup this week is the BA10 on the powerdac v2.1 and a new pair of balanced litz cables from XINHS. 320 mW into 32 ohms. Holeeeee fuuuuuuudgeeee (except i didn't say fudge!). Starline tips still getting the job done.
> 
> I think E1DA is KZ's spirit animal.


I'm using Radius Deep Mount tips with BA10 and with that seal and comfort, it's arguably the best combo. Starlines are obviously the second best option for me. That's the thing with BA10, with proper fit and seal they're damn good and as you mentioned with power they just turn 🤯 I used them balanced out via my Walnut F2 and my face was melting in joy.


----------



## Ceeluh7

axhng said:


> I've not tried them, but mndless' feedback on it seems promising. but like you mentioned, just so many cheap chi-fi stuff around that price that are also plenty enjoyable to listen to. I'll probably just KIV for now. The Yamaha EPH-200 was decent sounding and I love the design, but i struggle a bit to get a deep enough fit with them since my ear canal seems smaller. And if these E13 are the same size, it might not be suitable for my ears too, so i'm a bit hesitant personally


They are similar... It looks... In size to the Final e3000/4000 etc. I have the e4000 and they can go rather deep so if these are anything like those they may be OK for smaller ears. Anyways, it's interesting at least, just another budget set.


----------



## jant71

mndless said:


> They do use the same packaging, but the non-pro model doesn't come with the 4.4mm adapter. If you can find the standard version, I'd recommend them. They're cheap and sound pretty great for what they are. Probably on par with $70-90 USD sets, which is pretty impressive. They aren't quite as good as the GD3A from GS Audio, but those are hybrids, so I wouldn't really expect them to beat those at a 4x price difference. If you don't want to pick apart your music to hunt down details then the E13 are plenty enjoyable.


I'm the one who had them. I think the cable is pretty cool as it accentuates the mids and is solid. The Tips are like the Mee and Senn Bi-flanges so good to have. Gonna have to say that they don't run with more pricey stuff unless it is overrated stuff. The $25-ish CCZ Emerald and KZ DQ6 which I have had recently are both clearly better. At the time I had the Vsonic VS3 which was around $30 also beat it out just slightly. 

Worth the price but I am not gonna put them above $30 if talking about the good $30 stuff.


----------



## r31ya

jant71 said:


> I'm the one who had them. I think the cable is pretty cool as it accentuates the mids and is solid. The Tips are like the Mee and Senn Bi-flanges so good to have. Gonna have to say that they don't run with more pricey stuff unless it is overrated stuff. The $25-ish CCZ Emerald and KZ DQ6 which I have had recently are both clearly better. At the time I had the Vsonic VS3 which was around $30 also beat it out just slightly.
> 
> Worth the price but I am not gonna put them above $30 if talking about the good $30 stuff.


Hows CCZ Emerald compared to KZ DQ6?


----------



## jant71 (Oct 30, 2021)

r31ya said:


> Hows CCZ Emerald compared to KZ DQ6?


Much bigger and more headphone like. More air. Never really amped either so not to say the DQ6 might open up more but they are a $20 something so I just grabbed and go with my Cowon D3 or plug them into my BQEYZ Z3 BT cable. Like the Emerald treble better as the armature is done well so the tone and extension is better. I like dynamic treble though and my "Flagship" is a triple 3DT with upgrade cable. Think there is another who also put the Emerald ahead of the DQ6. Close but bigger, more separated, and the overall extension is a bit better. The DQ6 can overlap in the imaging so is better front to back placement. The Emerald is more out of head and I prefer that. DQ6 will never make you think you are listening to something bigger like the Emerald can.

Back to the other earphone, the DQ6 is more like the E13S being more rich and condensed sounding but the three drivers can just do more than the E13S single driver. The E13S vocals(esp. male) are more forward and more enjoyable but everything else would at least edge out to the KZ.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Much bigger and more headphone like. More air. Never really amped either so not to say the DQ6 might open up more but they are a $20 something so I just grabbed and go with my Cowon D3 or plug them into my BQEYZ Z3 BT cable. Like the Emerald treble better as the armature is done well so the tone and extension is better. I like dynamic treble though and my "Flagship" is a triple 3DT with upgrade cable. Think there is another who also put the Emerald ahead of the DQ6. Close but bigger, more separated, and the overall extension is a bit better. The DQ6 can overlap in the imaging so is better front to back placement. The Emerald is more out of head and I prefer that. DQ6 will never make you think you are listening to something bigger like the Emerald can.


Hmm, I've heard mixed reviews of the emerald, I also heard they are basically a clone sound wise and graph wise of the coffee bean.


----------



## jant71

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hmm, I've heard mixed reviews of the emerald, I also heard they are basically a clone sound wise and graph wise of the coffee bean.


I saw a three way review with one of the other models but said the Bean was a bit darker and thicker and warmer. Emerald is a slight bass tilt but surprisingly balanced. Good thing about having EQ that you can program is to test stuff out. Using my DQ6 EQ the Emerald was too bright as it has a higher treble shelf. Does sound like that at least a bit vs. the bean though I have only read two reviews with the Coffee Bean. 

Not that there can't be QC differences. They have partially filled resin shells and here and there they get a little too much maybe and we have a muddier Emerald? I agree with the other guy I listened to about the Emerald when I decided to buy. A couple more agree in the budget thread. So, i have heard about 80% on people "really liking" them.


----------



## r31ya

jant71 said:


> Like the Emerald treble better as the armature is done well so the tone and extension is better.


CCZ begun with trying to shoot the damn moon with CCZ Plume.
While it doesn't quite land as CCZ wanted but it still gone pretty far.
I guess they are one of the greater masters of Bellsing tuning now.

Agreed on DQ6 have good imaging but its front and back which kinda a shame really, had it being spread around left and right it would be awesome.


----------



## jant71

r31ya said:


> CCZ begun with trying to shoot the damn moon with CCZ Plume.
> While it doesn't quite land as CCZ wanted but it still gone pretty far.
> I guess they are one of the greater masters of Bellsing tuning now.
> 
> Agreed on DQ6 have good imaging but its front and back which kinda a shame really, had it being spread around left and right it would be awesome.


I certainly know where they were going with the DQ6 they were some of it and showing what a triple dynamic could bring. Got me more interested in that and I got the UM 3DT which takes it further but the cable is kinda budget. I already had a cable and it was luckily the right match. That took them to new heights so I am happy and thankful to the DQ6 which was the first one I decided to try. 

I hear people say they do the armatures right. I hear a good job in the Emerald but my only CCZ so I'll defer to them. I read that after I got them any how as the stage and out of head thing is more why I bought the Emerald. Quite good and actually even better with the 3DT cable on them.  Of course a "budget" cable on a $399 full price model is better than the one on the $25 Emerald.

Worked out well and all started with the DQ6.


----------



## PhonoPhi

jant71 said:


> Much bigger and more headphone like. More air. Never really amped either so not to say the DQ6 might open up more but they are a $20 something so I just grabbed and go with my Cowon D3 or plug them into my BQEYZ Z3 BT cable. Like the Emerald treble better as the armature is done well so the tone and extension is better. I like dynamic treble though and my "Flagship" is a triple 3DT with upgrade cable. Think there is another who also put the Emerald ahead of the DQ6. Close but bigger, more separated, and the overall extension is a bit better. The DQ6 can overlap in the imaging so is better front to back placement. The Emerald is more out of head and I prefer that. DQ6 will never make you think you are listening to something bigger like the Emerald can.
> 
> Back to the other earphone, the DQ6 is more like the E13S being more rich and condensed sounding but the three drivers can just do more than the E13S single driver. The E13S vocals(esp. male) are more forward and more enjoyable but everything else would at least edge out to the KZ.


I will now get Coffee Bean and Emerald, since I am not sure that the "CCZ" hype is real, given all the "unbiased" reviewers out there...


----------



## jant71 (Oct 30, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> I will now get Coffee Bean and Emerald, since I am not sure that the "CCZ" hype is real, given all the "unbiased" reviewers out there...


Think I just found it and that is not what it really said.

"compared to Emerald, the Coffee Bean has almost similar sound performance, and it is slightly louder and produces much greater bass."

Almost similar level of performance but the Coffee Bean has much greater bass. So, there ya go. If you read similar sound and leave off the word performance you get a different result. Seems Coffee Bean is more for bass heads. 

Guess you will be able to confirm or deny.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

new KZ ED*C* awaible


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> I saw a three way review with one of the other models but said the Bean was a bit darker and thicker and warmer. Emerald is a slight bass tilt but surprisingly balanced. Good thing about having EQ that you can program is to test stuff out. Using my DQ6 EQ the Emerald was too bright as it has a higher treble shelf. Does sound like that at least a bit vs. the bean though I have only read two reviews with the Coffee Bean.
> 
> Not that there can't be QC differences. They have partially filled resin shells and here and there they get a little too much maybe and we have a muddier Emerald? I agree with the other guy I listened to about the Emerald when I decided to buy. A couple more agree in the budget thread. So, i have heard about 80% on people "really liking" them.


One things for sure... Budget Chi-fi has come a very long way. I remember 5-7 yrs ago... IMO... Stuff like the EDX Pro or even the Zex would stack up to much much more expensive sets. I could be wrong but, from what I remember these budget sets today are just as good as 100-200 dollar sets of yesteryear. Sorry I went off topic there man..


----------



## lushmelody

Budget today thanks to Chi-Fi is 80~90% of what is considered high fidelity and good audio quality. Enough to enjoy MUSIC (the reason you bought the equipment, right?). Chase the remaining % is not cost effective, but you are free to keep trying if you can afford the high end I guess


----------



## nraymond

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Re: 7hz timeless - there's something about the shape of those that really bother me.  I think I finally put my finger on it.


Hah! Still, I'll take the design of the Timeless over the Audeze iSine or Monolith M300 any day:


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Mr.HiAudio said:


> new KZ ED*C* awaible


KZ should just now stop with ED series. Too many ED IEMs in a short span.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Ceeluh7 said:


> After burn in the Zex Def holds its own, it is a good set. The DQ6 is very nice but I have them neck and neck along with the EDX pro... Kz is doing good things. All of these are helped alot by tip changes.


Yeah, tip changes are a must and you're right, KZ is getting a lot better. I'm starting to see little point in really expensive IEM's.


----------



## baskingshark

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> KZ should just now stop with ED series. Too many ED IEMs in a short span.



Haha that has always been their gameplan! Hard to tell a leopard to change its spots when that method has brought them sales.


----------



## RCracer777

r31ya said:


> Hows CCZ Emerald compared to KZ DQ6?


These two are pretty much 2 sides of the same coin. Very much alike, yet different at the same time.
In my opinion the CCZ Emerald edges out the DQ6, but not by much. It has a better extension on both ends, a less offensive treble and a bit more bass that is well executed. 
The DQ6 is more balanced overall and can to some extent work for analytical listening. The Emerald is warmer in signature and great for movies and laid back listening.
The soundstage is ever so slightly bigger in the Emerald but it's really close, but with the better imaging, layering and separation it feels bigger than it actually is. It's not flawless but neither is the DQ6. When it comes to the technicalities and quite a few other aspects there is no real difference between them.

The fit is a personal preference and whether you want the Emeralds classic kidney shape with a small soft wing on the top edge or the more CIEM like shape of the DQ6 is up to you. For most people the DQ6 will need different tips as the stock ones are pretty bad. I'm using AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal for TWS on them and they work great for me. Same basic shape, fit and infinitely better quality.



jant71 said:


> Much bigger and more headphone like. More air. Never really amped either so not to say the DQ6 might open up more but they are a $20 something so I just grabbed and go with my Cowon D3 or plug them into my BQEYZ Z3 BT cable. Like the Emerald treble better as the armature is done well so the tone and extension is better. I like dynamic treble though and my "Flagship" is a triple 3DT with upgrade cable. Think there is another who also put the Emerald ahead of the DQ6. Close but bigger, more separated, and the overall extension is a bit better. The DQ6 can overlap in the imaging so is better front to back placement. The Emerald is more out of head and I prefer that. DQ6 will never make you think you are listening to something bigger like the Emerald can.


I'm going to side with jant71 here. The difference might not be that big (other than the bass) but it is there. Both are great sets, and you can't go wrong with either.
Lets be honest here, we're talking about some of the best sets to get at this price point that can hang with much more expensive sets. Personal preference plays a big part here.

I might be the guy he's talking about and yes, in my personal ranking I do put the Emerald above my DQ6. I even put it above my ZAX which I enjoy more than the DQ6 making the BA10 the only KZ above the Emerald and even that is not by much. But tastes are different for everyone and some will disagree on this, but these are my 2 cents.

TLDR: You want to be enveloped by sound, take Emerald. You want a more balanced experience, take DQ6.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Has there been a date for the launch of the zex pro yet?


----------



## PhonoPhi

jant71 said:


> Think I just found it and that is not what it really said.
> 
> "compared to Emerald, the Coffee Bean has almost similar sound performance, and it is slightly louder and produces much greater bass."
> 
> ...


I got now the Coffee Bean, the Emerald will come tomorrow.
The plan will be to compare with DQ6 and ZEX, adding Lark and TRN STM, and possibly CCA CSN and CA4. Tempotec E44 as a source.


----------



## Nimweth (Oct 31, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> Hmm, I've heard mixed reviews of the emerald, I also heard they are basically a clone sound wise and graph wise of the coffee bean.


----------



## ChrisOc

PhonoPhi said:


> I got now the Coffee Bean, the Emerald will come tomorrow.
> The plan will be to compare with DQ6 and ZEX, adding Lark and TRN STM, and possibly CCA CSN and CA4. Tempotec E44 as a source.


It would be quite interesting to find out how they compare to each other. I look forward to your comparisons.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Oct 31, 2021)

Nimweth said:


> +1 for BA10 and Starlines. Just add a pure copper cable and you are good to go!



I'd like to try the copper cable. All of them I've been ordering lately are bright/silvery ones.



Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I'm using Radius Deep Mount tips with BA10 and with that seal and comfort, it's arguably the best combo. Starlines are obviously the second best option for me. That's the thing with BA10, with proper fit and seal they're damn good and as you mentioned with power they just turn 🤯 I used them balanced out via my Walnut F2 and my face was melting in joy.



I've started calling these the _BA_chmeisters.  Part of the reason I'd stashed them away for a bit was due to new-to-me IEM fatigue, a melting pot of brain-burn in that wasn't really resonating with anything, and a horrific end-of-year work pace. At any rate, I didn't feel like I quite had the best amp for them. The PowerDAC v2.1 is an interesting little device, and the EQ and tweaking is very effective. With full power on balanced cable the BA10's are just flat out little monsters.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

nraymond said:


> Hah! Still, I'll take the design of the Timeless over the Audeze iSine or Monolith M300 any day:




Ah yes - Audeze planar IEM, the top choice for the most demanding of audio connoisseurs.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Oct 31, 2021)

Here's another one I'm tired of hearing about instead of Our Dark Lord KZ, who art in Mustafar.  NOONEIEM IS SAFE from SpaceOperaVillain!





(this is satire ... we love you, Moondrop!!) 

*Edit: Now with more KZ Buying Guide!!! *


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'd like to try the copper cable. All of them I've been ordering lately are bright/silvery ones.
> 
> 
> 
> I've started calling these the _BA_chmeisters.  Part of the reason I'd stashed them away for a bit was due to new-to-me IEM fatigue, a melting pot of brain-burn in that wasn't really resonating with anything, and a horrific end-of-year work pace. At any rate, I didn't feel like I quite had the best amp for them. The PowerDAC v2.1 is an interesting little device, and the EQ and tweaking is very effective. With full power on balanced cable the BA10's are just flat out little monsters.


I am using a Faaeal Hibiscus copper cable, I find it produces a better balance.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 31, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'd like to try the copper cable. All of them I've been ordering lately are bright/silvery ones.
> 
> 
> 
> I've started calling these the _BA_chmeisters.  Part of the reason I'd stashed them away for a bit was due to new-to-me IEM fatigue, a melting pot of brain-burn in that wasn't really resonating with anything, and a horrific end-of-year work pace. At any rate, I didn't feel like I quite had the best amp for them. The PowerDAC v2.1 is an interesting little device, and the EQ and tweaking is very effective. With full power on balanced cable the BA10's are just flat out little monsters.


KZ AST have your name all over it - abundant BA bass of new BAs, luscious upper mids of the BA array, and... gentle, OK, treble, quite similar to what you like in NRA and unlike well-extended (and often fatiguing) treble of BA10. I do have Aria - really great IEM, as a safe universal, if not borderline boring choice (they spiced Harman with two sets of treble peaks though).

As for the "copper" cables, I will try one more time. "Copper vs. silver" is perhaps one of the most silly audiophile biases out there, likely based on copper being red and warm vs. silver being white, shiny and bright. Not relevant for electrical conductivities of those metals!
Then most of copper wires are plated (mostly with silver, just to prevent copper corrosion), so the comparison of copper-coloured jacketed cables and silvery-jacketed ones can be perceived as outright silly, right? But then "placebo, psychoacoustics", I know, I know....
Finally, talking about cables without specifying sources is just totally mindboggling to me!

P. S. The comment was published before finished (those small buttons...), so I had to complete it after.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ AST have your name all over it - abundant BA bass of new BAs, luscious upper mids of the BA array, and... gentle, OK, treble, quite similar to what you like in NRA and unlike well-extended (and often fatiguing) treble of BA10. I do have Aria - really great IEM, as a safe universal, if not borderline boring choice (they spiced Harman with two sets of treble peaks though).
> 
> As for the "copper" cables, I will try one more time. "Copper vs. silver" is perhaps one of the most silly audiophile biases out there, likely based on copper being red and warm vs. silver being white, shiny and bright. Not relevant for electrical conductivities of those metals!
> Then most of copper wires are plated (mostly with silver, just to prevent copper corrosion), so the comparison of copper-coloured jacketed cables and silvery-jacketed ones can be perceived as outright silly, right? But then "placebo, psychoacoustics", I know, I know....
> ...



I was hoping for a bigger price break for 11.11 sale. They've allowed 5 euros off, which is still a $150 IEM to me after paying in euros and accounting for import taxes. Knowing that AST are handicapped in treble extension makes this a really hard sell. I EQ treble range up even for the Heart Mirrors.  

As for the cables - I mostly agree with you and I haven't paid more than about $30 for any of them. I don't have enough time in my days to be overly scientific about it, but the casual liner notes would be that ... 

* I do find there's a big difference in the SPC cables I've bought compared to stock KZ copper cables. This has been true for the C12, ZAX, and the BA10.

* DQ6 seemed cable agnostic to me. It shipped with a silvery cable IIRC. Balanced source basically did nothing for them over stock.

* NRA stock cable: very minor improvement in bass resolution with different single-ended cable. I'm using that cheap cable w/o the chin slider on my C12 right now, actually, and they sound great with it. They get thrown around on my desk alot and that cable is conveniently near tangle-free.  I have a balanced 16 core SPC cable on the NRA and I found that it added range in both bass and treble extension, but it's probably more due to balanced source than the cable.  

* The GK10 shipped with a really nice silvery looking cable that broke on one of the pins (I am guessing that it was weakened after having to shove that thing into the GK10's socket with Hulk like force when I first got them). Like the DQ6, I didn't find much improvement really with a new balanced cable on the GK10, also a silvery sub $20 unit from XINHS. I've not tried the (slightly) more expensive litz cable I bought for the BA10.  The Geek's stock cable is actually pretty nice. 

* Heart Mirror shipped also with a 4 core silvery looking cable.  No real change to my ear with above SPC balanced cable on the same source, but definitely enjoy more volume (as expected).


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I was hoping for a bigger price break for 11.11 sale. They've allowed 5 euros off, which is still a $150 IEM to me after paying in euros and accounting for import taxes. Knowing that AST are handicapped in treble extension makes this a really hard sell. I EQ treble range up even for the Heart Mirrors.
> 
> As for the cables - I mostly agree with you and I haven't paid more than about $30 for any of them. I don't have enough time in my days to be overly scientific about it, but the casual liner notes would be that ...
> 
> ...


Since silver is such an excellent conductor and the electron skin effect is a thing, as long as they plated the wire with a decently thick layer, then there really shouldn't be a substantial difference in performance between SPC cables. Solid silver will offer some improvement in impedance over SPC, but it won't be massive when dealing with AC, particularly in the upper mids and treble where the skin effect is even more pronounced.


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## PhonoPhi

mndless said:


> Since silver is such an excellent conductor and the electron skin effect is a thing, as long as they plated the wire with a decently thick layer, then there really shouldn't be a substantial difference in performance between SPC cables. Solid silver will offer some improvement in impedance over SPC, but it won't be massive when dealing with AC, particularly in the upper mids and treble where the skin effect is even more pronounced.


The skin effect starts to be "a thing" only above 10^5 Hz, well beyond the audible range. It has been discussed as one of the scientific, but not really any practically significant factors. I will be happy to see - if you have the data otherwise.
Then, copper is only 6% less conductive. In practice, silver wires of "similar looking cables" are usually made thinner due to the silver cost, so the actual conductivities of silver cables may be lower. Sterling silver also may be used by mistake and due to the lower cost - which is not good for cables.


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## SpaceOperaVillain

I'm happy to admit to remaining willfully ignorant and vulnerable to consumer fetishism.  I say, let he who is without single crystal copper cast the first composite horn driver!


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## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> Then, copper is only 6% less conductive. In practice, silver wires of "similar looking cables" are usually made thinner due to the silver cost, so the actual conductivities of silver cables may be lower. Sterling silver also may be used by mistake and due to the lower cost - which is not good for cables.


That would explain why my silver cables are measuring higher than my copper ones lol.


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## SybilLance (Nov 1, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ AST have your name all over it - abundant BA bass of new BAs, luscious upper mids of the BA array, and... gentle, OK, treble, quite similar to what you like in NRA and unlike well-extended (and often fatiguing) treble of BA10. I do have Aria - really great IEM, as a safe universal, if not borderline boring choice (they spiced Harman with two sets of treble peaks though).
> 
> As for the "copper" cables, I will try one more time. "Copper vs. silver" is perhaps one of the most silly audiophile biases out there, likely based on copper being red and warm vs. silver being white, shiny and bright. Not relevant for electrical conductivities of those metals!
> Then most of copper wires are plated (mostly with silver, just to prevent copper corrosion), so the comparison of copper-coloured jacketed cables and silvery-jacketed ones can be perceived as outright silly, right? But then "placebo, psychoacoustics", I know, I know....
> ...





SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I was hoping for a bigger price break for 11.11 sale. They've allowed 5 euros off, which is still a $150 IEM to me after paying in euros and accounting for import taxes. Knowing that AST are handicapped in treble extension makes this a really hard sell. I EQ treble range up even for the Heart Mirrors.
> 
> As for the cables - I mostly agree with you and I haven't paid more than about $30 for any of them. I don't have enough time in my days to be overly scientific about it, but the casual liner notes would be that ...
> 
> ...





mndless said:


> Since silver is such an excellent conductor and the electron skin effect is a thing, as long as they plated the wire with a decently thick layer, then there really shouldn't be a substantial difference in performance between SPC cables. Solid silver will offer some improvement in impedance over SPC, but it won't be massive when dealing with AC, particularly in the upper mids and treble where the skin effect is even more pronounced.





PhonoPhi said:


> The skin effect starts to be "a thing" only above 10^5 Hz, well beyond the audible range. It has been discussed as one of the scientific, but not really any practically significant factors. I will be happy to see - if you have the data otherwise.
> Then, copper is only 6% less conductive. In practice, silver wires of "similar looking cables" are usually made thinner due to the silver cost, so the actual conductivities of silver cables may be lower. Sterling silver also may be used by mistake and due to the lower cost - which is not good for cables.





SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'm happy to admit to remaining willfully ignorant and vulnerable to consumer fetishism.  I say, let he who is without single crystal copper cast the first composite horn driver!


Really enjoy going through the latest pages of this thread with my morning decaf and my Specialists KZ AS06 (same BA drivers as the AS10 and BA10 but missing the 2 30095 for treble; and bought well below my then self-imposed $30 limit when it first came out) or CCA NRA to favorite cello recordings.

The above back-and-forth on Cu vs Ag on cables oddly compels me to weigh in with a contribution from an audio(phile) philistine (not me):






Any DIY enthusiast could do this and personally try it out—with all legal disclaimers included, of course. This would settle any argument on conductivity (skin effect?), power, amplification, resolution of detail, or brain burn-in and any other psychological or cognitive biases, I believe. 

Cheers!


----------



## profusion

Ceeluh7 said:


> After burn in the Zex Def holds its own, it is a good set. The DQ6 is very nice but I have them neck and neck along with the EDX pro... Kz is doing good things. All of these are helped alot by tip changes.



My DQ6 is my daily driver. I like the fun smooth warm sound with analog spice  How ZEX are comparing to DQ6? warm, fun, or, is it noticeable differences in the treble or overall sounding, I just want to imagine if I will like it and moreover if it is worth it as something different?


----------



## Ceeluh7

profusion said:


> My DQ6 is my daily driver. I like the fun smooth warm sound with analog spice  How ZEX are comparing to DQ6? warm, fun, or, is it noticeable differences in the treble or overall sounding, I just want to imagine if I will like it and moreover if it is worth it as something different?


IMO, DQ6 is a great set and I would say that if you enjoy the DQ6 then the ZEX is a side-grade. Slightly different in tonality as there is a bit more energy in the low end on the ZEX and at least for me the DQ6 is a hair more relaxed. Not by crazy amounts. I have not done a side-by-side of the two but I will as you have me intrigued... I enjoy them both and I guess I haven't thought about it.


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## PhonoPhi (Nov 1, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I was hoping for a bigger price break for 11.11 sale. They've allowed 5 euros off, which is still a $150 IEM to me after paying in euros and accounting for import taxes. Knowing that AST are handicapped in treble extension makes this a really hard sell. I EQ treble range up even for the Heart Mirrors.
> 
> As for the cables - I mostly agree with you and I haven't paid more than about $30 for any of them. I don't have enough time in my days to be overly scientific about it, but the casual liner notes would be that ...
> 
> ...


To me, the sale price of AST is a good sign of their popularity. The extended treble would make them near-perfect.

For the cable sensitivity, the source is important. With an ideal source - cable should not have any effects. Then DD- based designs with impedance higher than 16 Ohm should not be sensitive to cable with most sources.


Ceeluh7 said:


> IMO, DQ6 is a great set and I would say that if you enjoy the DQ6 then the ZEX is a side-grade. Slightly different in tonality as there is a bit more energy in the low end on the ZEX and at least for me the DQ6 is a hair more relaxed. Not by crazy amounts. I have not done a side-by-side of the two but I will as you have me intrigued... I enjoy them both and I guess I haven't thought about it.


Comparing now CCZ  with DQ6 and ZEX, DQ6 are more capable and universal. The "EST" driver is quite limited, and depending on synergy with the music can sound nice or odd.
For CCZ, the Emerald is really disappointing. It is hard to understand how it can be praised, let alone compared positively with DQ6...
 I will try to see what did they do with the BA that its contribution is virtually non-existent.


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## lgcubana (Nov 1, 2021)

I see on FB, “CCA Earphone” is offering the DQ6 for $15.07 (after discount), on their Amazon page

Discount code： 48DQ6CX1
Start day：11/01/2021
Expiration day: 11/26/2021…

[edit]
Discount is apparently limited to the gray, no mic


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## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> To me, the sale price of AST is a good sign of their popularity. The extended treble would make them near-perfect.
> 
> For the cable sensitivity, the source is important. With an ideal source - cable should not have any effects. Then DD- based designs with impedance higher than 16 Ohm should not be sensitive to cable with most sources.
> 
> ...



Definitely agree with comment in bold ^. I've come to the conclusion that the things I like about the NRA cousin are mostly probably emanating from the dynamic driver. The _magnetostatic_ driver device (it's definitely not an EST) itself looks extremely crude in its construction from the tear downs that have been posted. I think it was saldsald that was saying he thought his NRA copy sounded better without it.


----------



## jant71

PhonoPhi said:


> To me, the sale price of AST is a good sign of their popularity. The extended treble would make them near-perfect.
> 
> For the cable sensitivity, the source is important. With an ideal source - cable should not have any effects. Then DD- based designs with impedance higher than 16 Ohm should not be sensitive to cable with most sources.
> 
> ...


Perhaps they are a bad one as we are in the cheap realm. Perhaps my DQ6 was a bad one. Often wondered about others saying things about the treble I didn't hear esp. that mine was smooth and people talking about bright or peaks in the treble. I put that down to never trying them with the stock cable as that was the thing making them brighter. Then again I thought enough of them to get me to buy the 3DT so they were a little bit special just the treble was a let down.



SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Definitely agree with comment in bold ^. I've come to the conclusion that the things I like about the NRA cousin are mostly probably emanating from the dynamic driver. The _magnetostatic_ driver device (it's definitely not an EST) itself looks extremely crude in its construction from the tear downs that have been posted. I think it was saldsald that was saying he thought his NRA copy sounded better without it.


Might just be a crude one indeed. I have had it a few times and was happy with it and my problems in those implementations were the dynamic was the let down. Pretty consistent and not that limited in most respects.


----------



## unifutomaki

AZ09 TWS adapter arrived today and has been promptly paired with the ZEX. The dangly bit is far less obtrusive than I thought it would be and the quality of the amplification seems…passable. The charging case looks and feels cheap but then it _is_ cheap. I’ll use these for hikes and other activities where I’m likely to sweat a lot since there’s no real need to baby these like I would my XM4s.


----------



## voicemaster

unifutomaki said:


> AZ09 TWS adapter arrived today and has been promptly paired with the ZEX. The dangly bit is far less obtrusive than I thought it would be and the quality of the amplification seems…passable. The charging case looks and feels cheap but then it _is_ cheap. I’ll use these for hikes and other activities where I’m likely to sweat a lot since there’s no real need to baby these like I would my XM4s.


How's the connection quality? I just ordered the pro version 2 days ago which I hope has better connection as it has the new Qualcomm 3040 chip and also AptX. I have the original AZ09 and the connection cutting out alot. It was unusable when I use it inside food court in a mall.
I also ordered the TRN BT30 and the official store in AE sent me the wrong item (BT3S).


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## jant71 (Nov 2, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> How's the connection quality? I just ordered the pro version 2 days ago which I hope has better connection as it has the new Qualcomm 3040 chip and also AptX. I have the original AZ09 and the connection cutting out alot. It was unusable when I use it inside food court in a mall.
> I also ordered the TRN BT30 and the official store in AE sent me the wrong item (BT3S).


There is a Tech Savvy video of them that compares the two. Connection said to be much better as well as the amplification and sound. Also you can see it wobble around more so the too stiff cabling is much better for comfort and fit. They seem to have addressed all the issues. Dude is way too excited though lol!


----------



## TheVortex

I also have the AZ09 Pro on the way and I want to see what they are like compared to the TRN BT20s Pro and BT30.


----------



## riodgarp

I wonder how much triple flange is changing the tonal in iem such non balance armature like DQ6 . . . .


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## r31ya (Nov 2, 2021)

riodgarp said:


> I wonder how much triple flange is changing the tonal in iem such non balance armature like DQ6 . . . .


Spin Fit  Double flange do wonders KZ ZS5. it soften quite a lot of its harshness.
I wonder how the triple flange works on recent kz


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## axhng

Bought these for fun, paid around 8.10 SGD (6 USD) for it only using some coupon I had that were expiring anyway. I couldn't get the "balanced" nozzles to fit my ears well at all due to that slightly longer nozzle. Tried bigger tips, smaller tips, foam tips, and none of them felt right. I do have smaller ear canals though. 

Very very quick first impressions... Nothing amazing, but nothing that really offends me either. Bassy, slightly warm sounding, not too shouty or sibilant. But having nothing offensive is probably already a huge win at this price range to me. Did a quick comparison with TRN MT1, and I think I actually like the ED9 more. Seems to have better body in the mids, less shouty, and basically just less fatiguing to listen to. Already gave away my EDX, so can't A/B, but considering I prefer the MT1 more than the EDX back when I had both, i'll probably like the ED9 more too?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Here is my take on CCZ Coffee Bean and Emerald, and comparison with DQ6 and ZEX and few more IEMs, as promised. Non-functional BA is the central feature of Emerald design, and CCZ “unique” approach to “tuning”.


*CCZ Coffee Bean and Emerald + comparison of eight similar IEMs based on 10-mm DDs*


The *underlying hypothesis* (and some initial expectation bias) was that CCZ could be just overhyped by “unbiased” reviewers reporting on free samples sent to them in a promotion campaign, while the primary “technology” is the same as used by other ChiFi (KZ, CCA, TRN), namely the 10-mm dual dynamic driver (d-DD).

I was also intrigued by the comments that the Coffee Bean (single d-DD) sounds nearly the same as Emerald (d-DD + BA (balanced armature)) that would imply that the BA is undermined in the design and/or used largely for the driver count. Similarly, I was disappointed recently by several “DD + 4 BAs” IEMs, such as ND-N10 and GS-GK10, for which I was not exactly sure about what their 4 BAs are doing. Lastly, testing individual drivers of CCA NRA upon dissection, I observed that the main contribution to NRA sound originates from the DD, while the new “EST” (which is hardly any EST) contributes in a more subtle way.

Consequently, the *comparison is focused on IEM designs with the 10 mm dual DD and its different implementations*: solo (Coffee Bean), coupled with a BA (Emerald, STM, CSN), with two more DDs (DQ6) and with “EST” (ZEX).

The compared IEMs and their main characteristics are listed in the summary table below together with the photo for the records.


*Summary of the main parameters of compared IEMs.*


*IEM**Drivers**DD**Impedance (Ω)**Sensitivity (dB/mW)**CCZ Coffee Bean*DD10 mm dual18111*CCZ Emerald*DD + BA10 mm dual16110*KZ DQ6*3 DDs10 mm dual24112*KZ ZEX*DD + “EST”10 mm dual25103*KBEar Lark*DD + BA10 mm “bio”16105*TRN STM*DD + BA10 mm dual24106*CCA CSN*DD + BA10 mm dual22112*CCA CA4*DD + BA10 mm older23107





I have not included the *IEM price* in the Table, given common price variations with location and discounts. In a brief comparison: Lark being most expensive at $30, CCA CA4 and CCZ Coffee Bean being the most affordable at ca. $15, with the rest of IEMs in the range of $20-$25.


*In lieu of disclosure*: I have purchased all the compared IEMs (AE, Amazon) using my own personal funds. I do not have any affiliation with IEM manufacturers. Hence, my assessment and comparisons are biased only by my personal subjectivity and limitations.


*Limitations and biases: *Plenty! First, my music selection/preference that is largely classical music, with occasional klezmer and related genres. Then I strongly value resolution, especially realistic (to my ears) reproduction of bowed and plucked strings, over tonality. Furthermore, I do think that music should feel and sound engaging. For this reason, I strongly favour fast and resolving BAs and am biased that DDs are not able to reproduce violin sound faithfully (DDs are like little drums: drums can’t sound like violins!): OK, hopefully enough to convey the idea of my biases.


*Justification for IEM selection and components of the test setup

IEMs*: The primary comparison is of *Coffee Bean* with the *Emerald* and then with *DQ6* and *ZEX,* as the KZ recent successful IEMs sharing the same (or similar) 10-mm dual DD driver. CCA CSN was added due to its similar to Emerald (and Melody) configuration of DD + BA, though the CSN DD is likely XUN judging by its shape. Then *KBEar Lark* (likely gen. 2) was selected as one of the highly praised IEMs with DD + BA. I could not also help to include TRN STM as a survivor from the “for parts” bin. STM first made be laugh by the mid-high BA occupying most of the nozzle (vs. tiny “high” 30095 or similar “custom” BAs in this class of IEMs), but then STM sound was quite agreeable and the green (emerald-like) colour is nice, so here it is. The last, but not least, representing the older generation of DD + BA is CCA CA4. CA4 was subjectively slightly more preferable to my ears than similar ZSN and ZSN pro (while ZSN pro X sounded less agreeable to me and joined the part bin; IEM cruelty is still not a criminal offense, the last time I checked). Eight is a good number, while ZAX mentioned in some comparison with CCZ is in a different league.

*Source:* Tempotec E44 with Samsung S10 and Tempotec V1A as transports. Tempotec E44 has been selected for it excellent synergy with dynamic drivers. It helps with faster transients and crispiness and is very clean to make DDs sound tighter and more engaging. E44 is a balanced source, so all IEMs were tested with balanced cables.

*Tips:* Wide-bore (similar to Spiral dots) tips– with the simple idea of minimum sound attenuation by tips – were used for all IEMs other than CCZ. CCZ own “patented” tips were sufficiently wide-bore not to constrain their nozzles, their fit was nice, and thus they were used directly. I did try other tips after being less impressed with CCZ and made sure that the tips were not a factor.

*Cables: *Cables do matter! But then their job is just to conduct well and very importantly for me to feel comfortable. For the conductivity, all cables were below 0.4 Ohm (single 1.2 m wire), well below the values to matter for IEMs with the impedance of 16 Ohm and above, which were tested in this comparison (see the Table). For the fit, I prefer 16- (and lately 24-) core cables that are thick and that do not have plastic ear guides in order not to interfere with the best IEM fit/position in the ear. I do not hear any difference between copper, spc and silver. I did use the same “paragraph B” two-pin cable that fits all the connectors for direct one-on-one comparisons. Then for those who may think that cables can matter beyond the differences in conductivity, I caved in and did add a “graphene” cable extender (courtesy of Xinhs). Furthermore, I appended a specially designed antiparallel male-male graphene cable (again Xinhs totally unique creation, patents pending) not directly in the IEM circuit but to cancel any effects of quasiparasitic inductance and other unwanted audiophilic bias altogether.



These special cables assertively added signal maturity, resolution potential and overall total musicality, you know, I know, we know. Enough about cables!

*Music:* Being gentle on DDs, I started with piano (Sibelius by Leif Ove Andsnes) and marimba (Silence by Christoph Sietzen) music, all flac files. Then I recollected that I recently got Ultimate Demonstration Disk by Chesky and used Correnteza by Ana Caram for the demanding treble and more; the latter naturally dominated the comparison by its virtues and sheer beauty.



*Brief comparison notes

Coffee Bean*: Very good first impression. Nice feeling of spaciousness and some perception of a wide stage. On the limiting side is the marginally acceptable mid-bass: both in quantity and quality and associated tubbiness. The treble is quite surprisingly extended, but the quality of the treble is definitely limited: the DD struggles to deliver well-resolved overtones. The rubberized wings of the shells feel nice, they may be helpful for long-time wear (not my case). Tips are quite useful and interesting being somewhat unique. The cable, on the other hand, reminded me KZ of 3+ years ago and were put away right away not to hurt anyone’s feelings.

*Emerald:* Not much different from the Coffee Bean indeed as the first impression. Then hardly much different to the point: what is with the BA? To answer this question, I removed the top plate (after the NRA disassembly struggle, just the good word and a very hot plate did the job in 2 minutes!) and started with measuring the resistance of the drivers.



To my surprise, it looked like an open circuit on the BA. Then I disconnected one of the wires of the BA and compared the total resistance at the connectors: the same (!!) at (15.8 ± 0.2) Ohm. Then naturally, listening to one earpiece with the disconnected BA and the second “as is” did not show any difference: channel imbalance, etc. So the guys at CCZ decided not to spoil their good DD design and just added the BA as the decoration and for the higher asking price! As you could read out there” “nicely tuned custom BA”, and for CCZ “sound designers” the best-tuned BA is a dead BA! So much for the positive Emerald reviews out there… Perhaps, the budget saved by not using functional BAs was diverted for plentiful review samples! For those guys who genuinely liked Emerald as a part of their CHiFi experience- they should feel fortunate - any simple single DD, like EDX and now EDX pro will perfectly do J
Not that a single-DD implementation of Emerald is any bad, it just should not be worth more than $10 by any means! Then the Emerald top plate (I opted for blue) is reminiscent of some appliance and feel to me IKEA-like in its brutal frugality.

*DQ6*: In comparison to CCZ above? Well, not much of comparison to my ears. DQ6 offers so much more: less intrusive, less honky bass and so much more resolving, functional and engaging treble. True, treble can be a bit too much for some. I get a bit of this feeling in Correnteza, but then fatiguing but not unnatural. After all, to dampen treble a bit is so much easier rather than trying to enhance non-existent or to correct unnatural. Check @RikudouGoku mod for DQ6 –very helpful.

*ZEX:* I was surprised how noticeably more limited ZEX felt in comparison with DQ6. I did enjoy ZEX with E44 when I first got it, very decent and the shell design is so pleasing to my eyes. Then side-by-side with the coherent DQ6, ZEX is not totally helpless or undermined. Yet, in ZEX the DD does most of the job, assisted by “EST” in the treble in a more limited way. ZEX treble is mostly nice and definitely unique (that rigid suspended magnetic plate, that KZ opted to call “EST”, does some interesting job with overtones), but definitely less natural for some music reproduction, e.g. at the beginning of Correnteza. A bit to the defence of ZEX, for the less demanding piano music it can sound nice, and I can see that some may like it more compared to DQ6.

*Lark:* The DD sound of Lark is a bit in a different class, more punchy and tight, and then the BA is there when needed but less intrusive and to your face. Treble is nice, resolving, and close to DQ6 in quantity. Lark feels much more natural than ZEX, while DQ6 feels more coherent in many aspects. A close call for DQ6 vs. Lark for me. Then listening more: Lark sound is more gentle and pleasant while still resolving. DQ6 is more engaging and fun and a bit more affordable, as a decisive punch in this close battle for the top in this comparison.

*STM*: I do like STM sound that feels less DD (well, the BA is blocking most of the nozzle). Then the sound of the mid-high BA (?50019) is not intrusive, so to my ears STM sometimes felt preferable to Lark based on fast initial impressions. Though upon a closer direct comparison, less refinement of STM becomes noticeable. As well, many may object the gentle bass of STM, especially compared to a more punchy Lark.

*CSN:* The most bass-head IEM by far in this comparison. The bass is a bit overwhelming for me. Then the treble is quite reasonable: the BA is definitely there and does it job, but not quite overwhelming as in some (largely older) KZs, and definitely not a decoy as in Emerald. If bass is the preference, then CSN should win over Coffee Bean and Emerald, as well as the rest of the compared IEMs.

*CA4*: Still competitive to my ears, the BA is there and does it job for the V (or W) profile that works reasonably for me. Definitely, new DDs are more capable in tightness and punchiness and have a more extended range, but then I still would choose good old CA4 over new CCZs due to my subjective affinity to the BA sound.


*Conclusions*

With the recent amazing progress of ChiFI, many recent IEMs sound great for $20. The competition is fierce, while major innovations are really limited (some credit can be given to KZ for the “EST” efforts but much less so for the results, at least at the moment). Then there are many companies there to take an advantage of the available part bin to create their “premium products” out of thin air. Through the promotions, the “good words” are spread, and here we are with the Emerald, a single DD with the non-operating BA receiving all positive attention and then sold for $20-$25 instead of $10 or less… CCZ seems to be not the only company that uses BAs only (or largely) for the driver count. Enough of CCZ, after this and Plume, they should be done.

As for the rest of comparison, *DQ6 really shine*. The DD treble is there, and if the treble can feel a bit too much for you - the great @RikudouGoku’s mod is out there. *ZEX feel less refined* compared to DQ6, but the new driver there is real and *can sound nice* (though not necessarily all the time). *Lark is definitely a capable nice hybrid* that deserves its a bit higher price. STM is an interesting design with a somewhat unique and quite agreeable sound, a keeper for me. *CSN* can definitely be recommended *for bassheads*, and the BA does work in CSN, but tuned to be gentler not to overshadow the bassheadness, while adding a touch of sparkle and resolution. CA04 hold their own for me, the older DD is less capable and refined, but the good old KZ/CCA “V” (or W) still does a decent job to my ears.


----------



## unifutomaki

I’ve been roadtesting the AZ09 today. They do look like hearing aids. Connection reliability seems acceptable to me, but I still feel that they make the ZEX sound somewhat worse :/ 

When driven by the AZ09, the ZEX’s treble is noticeably harsher/thinner, the bass seems more vague and flabby, and the overall detail takes a hit. I just don’t think there’s a particularly good DAC/AMP in these things. The $8 Apple dongle does a better job :/


----------



## Ceeluh7

unifutomaki said:


> I’ve been roadtesting the AZ09 today. They do look like hearing aids. Connection reliability seems acceptable to me, but I still feel that they make the ZEX sound somewhat worse :/
> 
> When driven by the AZ09, the ZEX’s treble is noticeably harsher/thinner, the bass seems more vague and flabby, and the overall detail takes a hit. I just don’t think there’s a particularly good DAC/AMP in these things. The $8 Apple dongle does a better job :/


I have found that the Zex does like a touch more power. I have been running them off 2.5 balanced Spc cables. That lines up with what you have stated about the Az09. The fiio utws3 however does seem to have enough to push them pretty good.


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## Vladimir 198 (Nov 3, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> Here is my take


Excellent and deep work. Although this budget has never interested me, this information is very helpful to me.
Thanks!


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## unifutomaki

Vladimir 198 said:


> Excellent and deep work. Although this budget has never interested me, this information is very helpful to me.
> Thanks!


If anything, it underscores how similar all of the models are, at the end of the day it almost doesn’t matter which one you pick 😅


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## saldsald

PhonoPhi said:


> To my surprise, it looked like an open circuit on the BA. Then I disconnected one of the wires of the BA and compared the total resistance at the connectors: the same (!!) at (15.8 ± 0.2) Ohm. Then naturally, listening to one earpiece with the disconnected BA and the second “as is” did not show any difference: channel imbalance, etc. So the guys at CCZ decided not to spoil their good DD design and just added the BA as the decoration and for the higher asking price! As you could read out there” “nicely tuned custom BA”, and for CCZ “sound designers” the best-tuned BA is a dead BA! So much for the positive Emerald reviews out there… Perhaps, the budget saved by not using functional BAs was diverted for plentiful review samples! For those guys who genuinely liked Emerald as a part of their CHiFi experience- they should feel fortunate - any simple single DD, like EDX and now EDX pro will perfectly do J
> Not that a single-DD implementation of Emerald is any bad, it just should not be worth more than $10 by any means! Then the Emerald top plate (I opted for blue) is reminiscent of some appliance and feel to me IKEA-like in its brutal frugality.


The resistance at the connectors if you measure with a multimeter is only the resistance across the DD as there is a capacitor in front of the BA which can be regarded as an open circuit when the circuit is not powered. Try disconnecting any BAs or the 6mm DDs of the DQ6 you will see the same observation. You need an impedance box to measure the AC impedance. So the BA may not be just for driver conut which can be verified by disconnecting the DD and hearing the sound of the BA.


----------



## jant71

Could explain why the armature blends so well if it is disconnected.  Still liked the treble quality better on the Emerald and not looking to add while I wanted more treble for the DQ6 even with the same 3 cables. Maybe my DQ6's treble driver wasn't connected? Or the ones who think more of the Emerald, I notice, have the green ones. 

Of course both good phones to me and not huge difference in quality. More in presentation. Both were good deals for the price paid.


----------



## PhonoPhi

saldsald said:


> The resistance at the connectors if you measure with a multimeter is only the resistance across the DD as there is a capacitor in front of the BA which can be regarded as an open circuit when the circuit is not powered. Try disconnecting any BAs or the 6mm DDs of the DQ6 you will see the same observation. You need an impedance box to measure the AC impedance. So the BA may not be just for driver conut which can be verified by disconnecting the DD and hearing the sound of the BA.


The most convincing and simple is that with the disconnected BA, the sound is exactly the same. Then the BA itself is an open circuit, so AC or DC would not matter (I have oscilloscopes and decent multimeters, this case does not require much sophistication).


unifutomaki said:


> If anything, it underscores how similar all of the models are, at the end of the day it almost doesn’t matter which one you pick 😅


True in a larger picture for single DDs, but then Lark and CSN are nicely distinct.
The good diversity is there at $20. As much as I appreciate Aria, I would not trade two decent $20 IEMs for it - just nearly twice more fun vs. only 20-25% more


----------



## RikudouGoku (Nov 3, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> The most convincing and simple is that with the disconnected BA, the sound is exactly the same. Then the BA itself is an open circuit, so AC or DC would not matter (I have oscilloscopes and decent multimeters, this case does not require much sophistication).
> 
> True in a larger picture for single DDs, but then Lark and CSN are nicely distinct.
> The good diversity is there at $20. As much as I appreciate Aria, I would not trade two decent $20 IEMs for it - just nearly twice more fun vs. only 20-25% more


Well, DQ6 > KXXS (substituting for the Aria)


----------



## RCracer777 (Nov 3, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> saldsald said:
> 
> 
> > The resistance at the connectors if you measure with a multimeter is only the resistance across the DD as there is a capacitor in front of the BA which can be regarded as an open circuit when the circuit is not powered. Try disconnecting any BAs or the 6mm DDs of the DQ6 you will see the same observation. You need an impedance box to measure the AC impedance. So the BA may not be just for driver conut which can be verified by disconnecting the DD and hearing the sound of the BA.
> ...


Still sounds like pseudo science to me, doesn't sound different = no difference is something I can't stand as an engineer without proper data to back it up. saldsald does have a point here. But the solution is easy, measure the resistance not at the connector but on the BA itself. I know it's a small and finicky to do so but this will answer the question and leaves no room for doubt.

As for the how the CCZ Emerald sounds, I don't quite hear the same things as you do for the most part. Then again everybody hears things differently, personal preference is a thing, unit variation is more likely at this price point and the source does play a role in this. The DQ6 seems to prefer a warmer source while the Emerald prefers a neutral one, even I will admit the Emerald gets bassy on a warm source. But I don't have a Tempotec E44 nor do you have a FiiO X7 Mk II so a comparison is hard to do. But I'm not here to fight over that, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

That said, it's good to hear there still is some love for the KBEAR Lark.


----------



## wopossum

Just wanted to share this video of opening the KZ ZAX, and just to be clear it's not mine. Vents are actually not fake.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 3, 2021)

RCracer777 said:


> Still sounds like pseudo science to me, doesn't sound different = no difference is something I can't stand as an engineer without proper data to back it up. saldsald does have a point here. But the solution is easy, measure the resistance not at the connector but on the BA itself. I know it's a small and finicky to do so but this will answer the question and leaves no room for doubt.
> 
> As for the how the CCZ Emerald sounds, I don't quite hear the same things as you do for the most part. Then again everybody hears things differently, personal preference is a thing, unit variation is more likely at this price point and the source does play a role in this. The DQ6 seems to prefer a warmer source while the Emerald prefers a neutral one, even I will admit the Emerald gets bassy on a warm source. But I don't have a Tempotec E44 nor do you have a FiiO X7 Mk II so a comparison is hard to do. But I'm not here to fight over that, let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
> 
> That said, it's good to hear there still is some love for the KBEAR Lark.


I did measure the resistance on the BA itself, as I clearly stated - it is very high (> 10 MOhm), or an "open circuit" as I stated.  Functional BAs do measure few tens of Ohm in DC. So the AC/DC point may be valid but not relevant.
Where the "pseudoscience" would be??

So the BA is not likely any functional, it is cemented firmly in the shell, otherwise I would take it out and open.

I would have hard time distinguishing Emerald and Coffee Bean in a blind test - but instead of picking up fine difference, I spent my time on dissection 
Then DQ6, CSN and Lark signatures would be very easy to identify.
E44 is an epitome of a neutral source to me from my limited collection.
I can agree that DQ6 may sound more preferable to many with a warmer source, as possibly the Lark in this comparison. Then DQ6 was a winner for me even with E44 - both the warmer source and a good mod discussed can tailor it more and make a budget star (no arguments about it, and I do have my two DQ6).


----------



## RCracer777

PhonoPhi said:


> I did measure the resistance on the BA itself, as I clearly stated - it is very high (> 10 MOhm), or an "open circuit" as I stated. Functional BAs do measure few tens of Ohm in DC. So the AC/DC point may be valid but not relevant.
> Where the "pseudoscience" would be??


Stated, yes, clearly stated, not as much. The fact I read over it disproves that. Probably due to the picture in between and the only statement being an open circuit (and a long tiring day at work). If you stated something along the lines of your reply above it would be more clearly stated. 
My apologies about the pseudoscience comment, I do stand corrected on that.
Dead BA on purpose or just unlucky is something that needs more digging into but not right now.

But enough about CCZ, let's get back to the KZ Pokémon collection.


----------



## Ceeluh7

jant71 said:


> Could explain why the armature blends so well if it is disconnected.  Still liked the treble quality better on the Emerald and not looking to add while I wanted more treble for the DQ6 even with the same 3 cables. Maybe my DQ6's treble driver wasn't connected? Or the ones who think more of the Emerald, I notice, have the green ones.
> 
> Of course both good phones to me and not huge difference in quality. More in presentation. Both were good deals for the price paid.


Crazy man, MY DQ6 was stupid bright. I had to burn them in for around 120-150 hrs before it finally eased up along with tip changes and a cable change. Huh, variances


----------



## axhng

PhonoPhi said:


> *Emerald:* Not much different from the Coffee Bean indeed as the first impression. Then hardly much different to the point: what is with the BA? To answer this question, I removed the top plate (after the NRA disassembly struggle, just the good word and a very hot plate did the job in 2 minutes!) and started with measuring the resistance of the drivers.
> 
> To my surprise, it looked like an open circuit on the BA. Then I disconnected one of the wires of the BA and compared the total resistance at the connectors: the same (!!) at (15.8 ± 0.2) Ohm. Then naturally, listening to one earpiece with the disconnected BA and the second “as is” did not show any difference: channel imbalance, etc. So the guys at CCZ decided not to spoil their good DD design and just added the BA as the decoration and for the higher asking price! As you could read out there” “nicely tuned custom BA”, and for CCZ “sound designers” the best-tuned BA is a dead BA! So much for the positive Emerald reviews out there… Perhaps, the budget saved by not using functional BAs was diverted for plentiful review samples! For those guys who genuinely liked Emerald as a part of their CHiFi experience- they should feel fortunate - any simple single DD, like EDX and now EDX pro will perfectly do J
> Not that a single-DD implementation of Emerald is any bad, it just should not be worth more than $10 by any means! Then the Emerald top plate (I opted for blue) is reminiscent of some appliance and feel to me IKEA-like in its brutal frugality.


very interesting findings on the Emerald! I've tried the melody and emerald and preferred the emerald because it sounded more natural. I assumed/thought that it was using a better BA driver, but it being completely disconnected would explain that as well.


----------



## Tzennn

PhonoPhi said:


> *CSN* can definitely be recommended *for bassheads*


Wait i think CSN bass just about "ok" they're quite slow and have like 5db less bass than blon bl01 (both stock and foam mod)


----------



## unifutomaki

AZ09 update:

Can’t really recommend these at the end of the day. Connection dropouts are regular enough to be annoying when walking around outdoors (even in fairly sparsely populated areas, mind) and can be triggered by the natural swaying of the  phone in my hand as I walk. 

Not to mention the fact that they have an annoying habit of waking up and connecting to my phone (thus snatching audio focus) even when they are inside the charging case and the lid is closed. I’m ready to cut my losses (of around 20 dollars) on these I think.

Sure, my XM4s probably don’t offer 300 dollars worth of sound quality, but the TWS part is rock solid on those. That’s also, in part, what one is paying for I suppose.


----------



## whirlwind

unifutomaki said:


> AZ09 update:
> 
> Can’t really recommend these at the end of the day. Connection dropouts are regular enough to be annoying when walking around outdoors (even in fairly sparsely populated areas, mind) and can be triggered by the natural swaying of the  phone in my hand as I walk.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update...could not put up with that when out for my walks.


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> AZ09 update:
> 
> Can’t really recommend these at the end of the day. Connection dropouts are regular enough to be annoying when walking around outdoors (even in fairly sparsely populated areas, mind) and can be triggered by the natural swaying of the  phone in my hand as I walk.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking one for the team.

Seems KZ is still hit or miss when it comes to their wireless gear, it is the usual suspects of crappy BT connectivity or lousy battery life that stunts their progress. I gotta say their eternal rival TRN seems to have better implementation for the TWS and BT products, though TRN QC is another story.


----------



## unifutomaki

Transplanted the ZEX back onto the stock cable and am driving it with the Earmen Eagle. Versus the AZ09, the background is blacker, the bass slam has tightened up once more, and the harsh/thin treble has mellowed out considerably.


----------



## SybilLance

PhonoPhi said:


> Here is my take on CCZ Coffee Bean and Emerald, and comparison with DQ6 and ZEX and few more IEMs, as promised. Non-functional BA is the central feature of Emerald design, and CCZ “unique” approach to “tuning”.
> 
> 
> *CCZ Coffee Bean and Emerald + comparison of eight similar IEMs based on 10-mm DDs*
> ...



A comprehensive and engrossing comparative presentation, PhonoPhi.

The disconnected BA in the CCZ Emerald raised my eyebrows and elicited a chuckle from my husband when I showed your findings to him. It'd be fun to hear or read what others have declared in their reviews about the positive effects on the treble the BAs have, if indeed this disconnection were true for every unit. It's a wicked thought, for sure, but I'm grinning as I tap this comment. 

As for cables, other than differences in conductivity, the only other things that matter are plugs (naturally), aesthetics and ergonomics. Those antiparallel doohickeys to counteract quasiparasitic and other such multi-syllable pseudo-scientific oddities do nothing but add nonsense and variances to pollute your audio chain. (Tongue in cheek)

Oh! I'm glad you have Chesky's Ultimate Demonstration Disc. Rebecca Pidgeon's Spanish Harlem has always been my first track when testing for resolving capabilities and sibilance. Do you also have their Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc?


----------



## voicemaster

unifutomaki said:


> AZ09 update:
> 
> Can’t really recommend these at the end of the day. Connection dropouts are regular enough to be annoying when walking around outdoors (even in fairly sparsely populated areas, mind) and can be triggered by the natural swaying of the  phone in my hand as I walk.
> 
> ...


Exactly the same thing happened to mine too. I just need to rest my hand behind my head and the connection will dropout for a brief moment with my bluetooth transmitter about 2 feet away. It was okay for desktop usage, but my biggest problem with it is the volume. The volume increment is too high in my case. 
Hopefully the pro version is much better in connection and volume.


----------



## unifutomaki

voicemaster said:


> Exactly the same thing happened to mine too. I just need to rest my hand behind my head and the connection will dropout for a brief moment with my bluetooth transmitter about 2 feet away. It was okay for desktop usage, but my biggest problem with it is the volume. The volume increment is too high in my case.
> Hopefully the pro version is much better in connection and volume.


If only these companies would just build a good product from the get-go, there would be far less e-waste going around…


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 4, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> AZ09 update:
> 
> Can’t really recommend these at the end of the day. Connection dropouts are regular enough to be annoying when walking around outdoors (even in fairly sparsely populated areas, mind) and can be triggered by the natural swaying of the  phone in my hand as I walk.
> 
> ...


Glad I haven't experienced any of these, and I've been using the AZ09 with the ZAX outside when gardening or inside while cooking or any of those things a retired senior citizen does, for months now (posted my impressions here last July, I think). Since the AZ09 utilizes AAC, I mainly use my dated iPhone 6+, through the Audioforge EQ app playing 16-44.1 flacs and 320 kbps mp3s as source. For Android (Poco X3 Pro) I've made AAC the default Bluetooth audio codec, then made sure the proper Bluetooth audio bit and sample rates (16-44.1) are switched on, all in developer options. The X3 Pro has good implementation of the AAC codec and also automatically enables HD Audio in developer options whenever a Bluetooth connection is established to an audio device. My Android music player is Neutron Player Pro.

So no dropouts whatsoever unless I leave my phone inside when I go out to the garden or I start to go beyond the threshold distance of ~10 meters between phone and the AZ09.


----------



## SybilLance

Sometimes unreliable bluetooth connections or frequent connection dropout problems occur between bluetooth TWS devices and phones that have been upgraded or updated to newer or latest Android versions. And oftentimes these could be fixed by rolling back the default Bluetooth Audio/Video Remote Control Profile (AVRCP) version from 1.4 to 1.3 in developer options.


----------



## unifutomaki

SybilLance said:


> Sometimes unreliable bluetooth connections or frequent connection dropout problems occur between bluetooth TWS devices and phones that have been upgraded or updated to newer or latest Android versions. And oftentimes these could be fixed by rolling back the default Bluetooth Audio/Video Remote Control Profile (AVRCP) version from 1.4 to 1.3 in developer options.


I use an iPhone 12


----------



## SybilLance

unifutomaki said:


> I use an iPhone 12


Hmm...My husband does, too. The Pro Max. And he hasn't mentioned any such problem with his AZ09/ZAX, which he got even earlier than I did. To be fair he doesn't use his as much as I do mine; only when he's at his desk and using his laptop, with his phone beside it. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## r31ya

Hopefully the AZ09 Pro with proper Qualcomm 3040 chip and hopefully good antenna and battery, will much better for daily use.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Tzennn said:


> Wait i think CSN bass just about "ok" they're quite slow and have like 5db less bass than blon bl01 (both stock and foam mod)


I can agree that I would be the least qualified person to advise to bassheads. CSN was definitely most bass-intense in the discussed comparison. E44 helps with the bass tightness a bit, but the Lark is definitely better in tightness but not a basshead IEM 


SybilLance said:


> A comprehensive and engrossing comparative presentation, PhonoPhi.
> 
> The disconnected BA in the CCZ Emerald raised my eyebrows and elicited a chuckle from my husband when I showed your findings to him. It'd be fun to hear or read what others have declared in their reviews about the positive effects on the treble the BAs have, if indeed this disconnection were true for every unit. It's a wicked thought, for sure, but I'm grinning as I tap this comment.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your kind words.
I still have Emerald and can do more tests, but it started to feel antithetical - instead of enjoying the music trying to prove that someone did not what they should...

If someone would not have a chuckle about the "antiparallel alignment", they are welcome to contact me for more details 

Exactly, the Spanish Harlem is my go to for internal comparisons.

Somehow I did not know about the separate "headphone" disk, and now I got it, thanks to you


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> How's the connection quality? I just ordered the pro version 2 days ago which I hope has better connection as it has the new Qualcomm 3040 chip and also AptX. I have the original AZ09 and the connection cutting out alot. It was unusable when I use it inside food court in a mall.
> I also ordered the TRN BT30 and the official store in AE sent me the wrong item (BT3S).


I’ve had the pro version for about a week and the BT connection is much better. I like the AZ09 Pro better than the BT20s.


----------



## SybilLance

PhonoPhi said:


> I can agree that I would be the least qualified person to advise to bassheads. CSN was definitely most bass-intense in the discussed comparison. E44 helps with the bass tightness a bit, but the Lark is definitely better in tightness but not a basshead IEM
> 
> Thank you for your kind words.
> I still have Emerald and can do more tests, but it started to feel antithetical - instead of enjoying the music trying to prove that someone did not what they should...
> ...


You're welcome. ☺️

Chesky's Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc provides an accurate basis for determining or ascertaining the extent of the sound field or head stage the headphone creates, along the x, y and z axes. I've played it countless times through my stereo system and all of my headphones and through my husband's HiFiMAN Arya, and I'm already very familiar with its boundaries. The headphone may either increase or decrease this field, but now I'm assured I can gauge it with a high degree of confidence for every new headphone I try.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Don't forget to stop and  the music.  BA10 on full send. All that fast decay on the piano, and BA's roaring in the mids from the PowerDAC.  Truly a concert hall experience, just incredible. 



... bring a tissue.


----------



## Ceeluh7

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Don't forget to stop and  the music.  BA10 on full send. All that fast decay on the piano, and BA's roaring in the mids from the PowerDAC.  Truly a concert hall experience, just incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> ... bring a tissue.



How about the fit of the BA10. That is the only thing that ever kept me from making a purchase of them. I read good reviews a few years back but.... They just look uncomfortable man. May just be decieving. I wonder how they stack up against as10/as12/kb10... Basically all the other chi-fi all BA sets of the time period


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 5, 2021)

Ceeluh7 said:


> How about the fit of the BA10. That is the only thing that ever kept me from making a purchase of them. I read good reviews a few years back but.... They just look uncomfortable man. May just be decieving. I wonder how they stack up against as10/as12/kb10... Basically all the other chi-fi all BA sets of the time period


For me, the cable has to point forward instead pointing a little bit upward for other IEMs. Because the body is square shaped so if I use it just like any other IEMs, some of the edges will touch and irritate my ears after some time. When I use it pointing forward, the edges don't touch my ears and I could wear it for quite a long time.
Here is a little bit pointing upward.
Here is pointing forward.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> For me, the cable has to point forward instead pointing a little bit upward for other IEMs. Because the body is square shaped so if I use it just like any other IEMs, some of the edges will touch and irritate my ears after some time. When I use it pointing forward, the edges don't touch my ears and I could wear it for quite a long time.
> Here is a little bit pointing upward.Here is pointing forward.


That's makes sense, not perfect but usable. I appreciate your reply from user experience.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Ceeluh7 said:


> How about the fit of the BA10. That is the only thing that ever kept me from making a purchase of them. I read good reviews a few years back but.... They just look uncomfortable man. May just be decieving. I wonder how they stack up against as10/as12/kb10... Basically all the other chi-fi all BA sets of the time period



I have medium-large ears and no fit issues. Not going to side sleep with them  

I think smaller ears might suffer with contact in the corner, as widely discussed.


----------



## Arjey

I know this question has probably been asked and answered hundreds of times, so sorry in advance..
DQ6 vs ZEX?


----------



## r31ya (Nov 5, 2021)

Arjey said:


> I know this question has probably been asked and answered hundreds of times, so sorry in advance..
> DQ6 vs ZEX?


Haven't heard Zex, but have heard DQ6.
And per PhonoPPhi answer


> In comparison with CCZ Emerald.
> *DQ6*: In comparison to CCZ above? Well, not much of comparison to my ears. DQ6 offers so much more: less intrusive, less honky bass and so much more resolving, functional and engaging treble. True, treble can be a bit too much for some. I get a bit of this feeling in Correnteza, but then fatiguing but not unnatural. After all, to dampen treble a bit is so much easier rather than trying to enhance non-existent or to correct unnatural. Check @RikudouGoku mod for DQ6 –very helpful.
> 
> *ZEX:* I was surprised how noticeably more limited ZEX felt in comparison with DQ6. I did enjoy ZEX with E44 when I first got it, very decent and the shell design is so pleasing to my eyes. Then side-by-side with the coherent DQ6, ZEX is not totally helpless or undermined. Yet, in ZEX the DD does most of the job, assisted by “EST” in the treble in a more limited way. ZEX treble is mostly nice and definitely unique (that rigid suspended magnetic plate, that KZ opted to call “EST”, does some interesting job with overtones), but definitely less natural for some music reproduction, e.g. at the beginning of Correnteza. A bit to the defence of ZEX, for the less demanding piano music it can sound nice, and I can see that some may like it more compared to DQ6


It seems for the most part, there are some type of music that ZEX is better, but for the most part DQ6 is more natural and better...

For god sake man, all this talk about DQ6 makes me miss it. 
I bought mine for a gift, use it for a week or two before giving it to my brother in law, which apparently after recieving DQ6 still dead set in using his (shell cracked) KZ ZST.


----------



## dharmasteve

Arjey said:


> I know this question has probably been asked and answered hundreds of times, so sorry in advance..
> DQ6 vs ZEX?


I've A/B'd them. Both are very good V shaped sets with well tuned bass. The ZEX has a slightly more recessed midrange than the DQ6, but guitars and vocals still have good presence on both. DQ6 has a bit more impact and edge, which I prefer, and the treble on the 3DD DQ6 has, to me, better extension compared to the ZEX....but they are both really enjoyable and my guess is you can toss a coin. The ZEX is probably less likely to offend than the DQ6 as the treble rolls off a tiny bit earlier. I really like the DQ6 a lot. Both have good timbre and the ZEX has a rich tone. Credit to KZ, I avoided them for some time but they are making some well tuned, good value, IEMs nowadays.


----------



## rayliam80

r31ya said:


> Spin Fit  Double flange do wonders KZ ZS5. it soften quite a lot of its harshness.
> I wonder how the triple flange works on recent kz


I’m using some random black triple flange tips on my ZAX. It’s my favorite tip for them. Not as dry sounding, everything sounds very lush. 

I haven’t had a lot of luck with triple flange tips with KZs since the different triple flanges I’ve tried to tend slip off the nozzles. But these are working out.


----------



## riodgarp

r31ya said:


> Spin Fit  Double flange do wonders KZ ZS5. it soften quite a lot of its harshness.
> I wonder how the triple flange works on recent kz


oh I think that more flange means more forward signature, because I can hear sibilance,  the pronunciation s sounds like ss to me or it is already sibilance ini DQ6....?


----------



## r31ya

riodgarp said:


> oh I think that more flange means more forward signature, because I can hear sibilance,  the pronunciation s sounds like ss to me or it is already sibilance ini DQ6....?


Its been awhile since i listen to it, but i remember the soundstage got bigger and its tames some of its treble harshness.
Apparently there is two model, CP220 and CP240. from the review, one focus on mid and bass and the other focus on clarity and treble.


----------



## ldo77 (Nov 6, 2021)

Dq6 and bt20s make a nice TWS...especialy for running


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

I own the DQ6 and use it every day now. I'm thinking of buying the CCA NRA. Do you think its a waste of money?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I own the DQ6 and use it every day now. I'm thinking of buying the CCA NRA. Do you think its a waste of money?


Yes it is. 

If you wanna spend money, you can get some tuning foams for the dq6.


----------



## Ceeluh7 (Nov 6, 2021)

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I own the DQ6 and use it every day now. I'm thinking of buying the CCA NRA. Do you think its a waste of money?


No.. This is a hobby man, however it is Def a side grade but a slightly different sound sig. If it is a waste of money is up to you, if you like collecting some of these sets. The plus is... These do not cost very much and you are getting sound quality that costed much much more not very long ago. NRA is a good budget set as is EDX Pro as well as ZEX, truthfully the list goes on and on man.


----------



## lushmelody

Thought the magnetostat would bring some major sound difference, but impressions here proved it doesnt at all. Community feedback amazing for saving money


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 6, 2021)

In my opinion, it is the magnetostat that makes KZ ZEX one of the best in the category of around € 20.  They are brutally fun and balanced at the same time.  The right choice of tips is important, I recommend BGVP W01.  I wish everyone a pleasant experience. CCA NRA suffers from a lack of bass, but it was just a warm-up with this species of driver. I own them both, so I know what I'm talking about.


----------



## illwafer

I've got the KZ VX10 coming tomorrow. Anyone have any tips on setting them up with an LG V60 and Poweramp?

I'm a happy owner of the ZSX and ZAX. With a little EQing they sound great and are a great value, which is why I decided to stay with KZ for TWS.

Any reason why I should return them an pick a different pair (Soundpeats H1)?


----------



## Ceeluh7

4ceratops said:


> In my opinion, it is the magnetostat that makes KZ ZEX one of the best in the category of around € 20.  They are brutally fun and balanced at the same time.  The right choice of tips is important, I recommend BGVP W01.  I wish everyone a pleasant experience. CCA NRA suffers from a lack of bass, but it was just a warm-up with this species of driver.


Zex scales pretty well also. I put an spc balanced cable on and they opened up a hair more. Granted they do sound very good on single ended. You are right, a solid budget set for sure


----------



## Ceeluh7

illwafer said:


> I've got the KZ VX10 coming tomorrow. Anyone have any tips on setting them up with an LG V60 and Poweramp?
> 
> I'm a happy owner of the ZSX and ZAX. With a little EQing they sound great and are a great value, which is why I decided to stay with KZ for TWS.
> 
> Any reason why I should return them an pick a different pair (Soundpeats H1)?


I can tell you straight up... The H1 are one helluva set of tws for the price and I'd stack them over any set in the price point for pure SQ. And now they have an app and firmware updates. They really are a good set


----------



## 4ceratops

From the KZ / CCA stable I own KZ ZS5, KZ ZS10, KZ ZSX, KZ AST, KZ ZEX, CCA CA16, CCA CKX and CCA NRA.  If I have to choose, my choice clearly falls on KZ ZEX and CCA CKX, exactly in that order.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 6, 2021)

As blasphemous as it sounds, I consider the difference between ZEX (€ 20) and AST (€ 100 +) to be abysmal, because AST are IEMs with terrible mid-frequencies, absent heights and tragic timbre. It is precisely these properties that ZEX handles perfectly.


----------



## nihil23

4ceratops said:


> As blasphemous as it sounds, I consider the difference between ZEX (€ 20) and AST (€ 100 +) to be abysmal, because AST are IEMs with terrible mid-frequencies, absent heights and tragic timbre. It is precisely these properties that ZEX handles perfectly.


I noticed that at one time it was common to mock kz ast, and, it seems to me, the claims are groundless. Yes, ast may doesn't have a brilliance \ sparkle and a nasal mids, but it seems to me that they are more balanced than many of their competitors. However, I bought them at a discount, for only $80 or even less. I have both nra, and zex, and mele, gk10, zas and a bunch of other inexpensive things. maybe it all depends on the music we listen to, and some are suitable, and some are not, while my collection is quite wide. but I would like to note that ast is one of the most versatile iems that I've heard lately, besides, they play almost the same with different sources.

however, I want to note that nra and zex are very successful models, i like them a lot. but noise isolation is pretty weak and this ones are not suitable for commuting, especially trains. I'm waiting for the pro version, maybe it will be even more coherent and balanced.
I would like to see a more expensive model from kz, in the way of zas/ast, but with a dynamic from zex and a set of 50024s


----------



## lushmelody

nihil23 said:


> I noticed that at one time it was common to mock kz ast, and, it seems to me, the claims are groundless. Yes, ast may doesn't have a brilliance \ sparkle and a nasal mids, but it seems to me that they are more balanced than many of their competitors. However, I bought them at a discount, for only $80 or even less. I have both nra, and zex, and mele, gk10, zas and a bunch of other inexpensive things. maybe it all depends on the music we listen to, and some are suitable, and some are not, while my collection is quite wide. but I would like to note that ast is one of the most versatile iems that I've heard lately, besides, they play almost the same with different sources.
> 
> however, I want to note that nra and zex are very successful models, i like them a lot. but noise isolation is pretty weak and this ones are not suitable for commuting, especially trains. I'm waiting for the pro version, maybe it will be even more coherent and balanced.
> I would like to see a more expensive model from kz, in the way of zas/ast, but with a dynamic from zex and a set of 50024s


Indeed. AST merit, even though a full BA IEM, is the timbre and versatility. The easy capability to EQ it is also undermined. Stock tuning is treble shy, fatigue free, but you can adjust that with small effort and it is very far from the mess ASX is.


----------



## Ceeluh7

nihil23 said:


> I noticed that at one time it was common to mock kz ast, and, it seems to me, the claims are groundless. Yes, ast may doesn't have a brilliance \ sparkle and a nasal mids, but it seems to me that they are more balanced than many of their competitors. However, I bought them at a discount, for only $80 or even less. I have both nra, and zex, and mele, gk10, zas and a bunch of other inexpensive things. maybe it all depends on the music we listen to, and some are suitable, and some are not, while my collection is quite wide. but I would like to note that ast is one of the most versatile iems that I've heard lately, besides, they play almost the same with different sources.
> 
> however, I want to note that nra and zex are very successful models, i like them a lot. but noise isolation is pretty weak and this ones are not suitable for commuting, especially trains. I'm waiting for the pro version, maybe it will be even more coherent and balanced.
> I would like to see a more expensive model from kz, in the way of zas/ast, but with a dynamic from zex and a set of 50024s


I've never tried out the AST. Interesting to read what you think of them. I strayed away from them simply because of the many reviews trashing them. 
Also, agree with you about the Zex, a very nice set which hopefully shows a glimpse of the future for a 80-100 dollar set. I love the ZAS and you are right it would be cool to see KZ step up thier game with the Mag Driver in addition to maybe a good BA


----------



## r31ya

Ceeluh7 said:


> I've never tried out the AST. Interesting to read what you think of them. I strayed away from them simply because of the many reviews trashing them.
> Also, agree with you about the Zex, a very nice set which hopefully shows a glimpse of the future for a 80-100 dollar set. I love the ZAS and you are right it would be cool to see KZ step up thier game with the Mag Driver in addition to maybe a good BA


its interesting to read AST review. it is unique all BA system.
An all BA that somehow considered too Bassy and have treble roll-off.
Known to have good resolution and like lushmelody said, EQ'd, it will be pretty awesome set.
--
But as i haven't heard it myself, everytime i asked reviewers whether in AST price range, is it the one they'll buy?
most answers, "its not bad, great technicality but it is not the one i'm gonna buy."
then talks about tonality and timbre start to pops out.
--
Anyhow all eyes is on KZ ZEX Pro Tribid or possible future KZ ZS12 Tribid


----------



## Ceeluh7

r31ya said:


> its interesting to read AST review. it is unique all BA system.
> An all BA that somehow considered too Bassy and have treble roll-off.
> Known to have good resolution and like lushmelody said, EQ'd, it will be pretty awesome set.
> --
> ...


Exactly, I've been wanting a good all BA set in the budget range and honestly we do not have much to choose from and it seems most issues are centered around tonality and timbre or lack of low end which throws off the mix, metallic outer edge of the highs. These things have kept me from purchasing but I suspect that a set like the AST can be an acquired taste and maybe even a good buy, and so it is interesting to see a different point of view. You are right though, treble roll off and too much bass? It is odd. Nothing wrong with a lil eq, nothing wrong with seeing what these drivers are capable of.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 7, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> Thought the magnetostat would bring some major sound difference, but impressions here proved it doesnt at all. Community feedback amazing for saving money


It doesn’t bring a major difference in sound signature, but for a hybrid the ZEX still does sound more coherent and less metallic than a similarly priced 1DD + 1BA set. Nonetheless I still find the mids to be pretty lean and one-dimensional, and the included tips are trash.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

lushmelody said:


> Indeed. AST merit, even though a full BA IEM, is the timbre and versatility. The easy capability to EQ it is also undermined. Stock tuning is treble shy, fatigue free, but you can adjust that with small effort and it is very far from the mess ASX is.


The EQ capability of the AST is the best argument for the AST. Today I sat myself down and used my AST with my Zishan Z3. With just minimal EQ, I could get it to sound how I want it.


----------



## PhonoPhi

AST.





4ceratops said:


> As blasphemous as it sounds, I consider the difference between ZEX (€ 20) and AST (€ 100 +) to be abysmal, because AST are IEMs with terrible mid-frequencies, absent heights and tragic timbre. It is precisely these properties that ZEX handles perfectly.


It is hard to believe that you really have AST.
The BA array delivers very nice mids, the treble is curtailed/gentle indeed.

The best and most objective testament to AST is that its price during this 11.11 sale is discounted very little at above $120  - compared to dramatic discounts for  TRN (e.g. X7 and BA8) and many other KZs 
So AST joines the likes of AS10 and AS06.


----------



## 4ceratops

PhonoPhi said:


> AST.
> It is hard to believe that you really have AST.
> The BA array delivers very nice mids, the treble is curtailed/gentle indeed.
> 
> ...





PhonoPhi said:


> AST.
> It is hard to believe that you really have AST.
> The BA array delivers very nice mids, the treble is curtailed/gentle indeed.
> 
> ...


Here is the proof, right in front of my Arias and CKX.


----------



## Robius

So when zex pro? 11.11?


----------



## danieldvk

Robius said:


> So when zex pro? 11.11?


I spoke with KZ's technical department and they didn't confirm.


----------



## juli95

I have been out of the loop with KZ headphones since i bought my ZS10 Pro. The new favorites around here seem to be the DQ6 and ZEX. How do you they compare to the ZS10 Pro? Should i get one of them?

And i just ordered the AZ09 Pro after a very disappointing experience with the KZ AptX HD cable (very loud hiss) and the AZ09 (awful sound glitches and bad connection). I hope that they got it right this time. The first reviews sound positive


----------



## trippleed

4ceratops said:


> In my opinion, it is the magnetostat that makes KZ ZEX one of the best in the category of around € 20.  They are brutally fun and balanced at the same time.  The right choice of tips is important, I recommend BGVP W01.  I wish everyone a pleasant experience. CCA NRA suffers from a lack of bass, but it was just a warm-up with this species of driver. I own them both, so I know what I'm talking about.


I couldn't agree more. Put any wide bore tips on it will make it sounds more refine and coherence. At the moment I'm using either white starline reverse or Tanchjim TAPB Treble.


----------



## r31ya

juli95 said:


> I have been out of the loop with KZ headphones since i bought my ZS10 Pro. The new favorites around here seem to be the DQ6 and ZEX. How do you they compare to the ZS10 Pro? Should i get one of them?
> 
> And i just ordered the AZ09 Pro after a very disappointing experience with the KZ AptX HD cable (very loud hiss) and the AZ09 (awful sound glitches and bad connection). I hope that they got it right this time. The first reviews sound positive


We put our hope on QC3040 chip which is the mainstay on numerous good budget TWS.
Also hopefully, KZ give it good Antenna, decent battery, and good QC to make it great.


----------



## InvisibleInk

juli95 said:


> I have been out of the loop with KZ headphones since i bought my ZS10 Pro. The new favorites around here seem to be the DQ6 and ZEX. How do you they compare to the ZS10 Pro? Should i get one of them?
> 
> And i just ordered the AZ09 Pro after a very disappointing experience with the KZ AptX HD cable (very loud hiss) and the AZ09 (awful sound glitches and bad connection). I hope that they got it right this time. The first reviews sound positive


 Can't go wrong with either choice. Choose the DQ6 for a more lively and engaging, but inevitably somewhat fatiguing, experience. Choose the ZEX for a more relaxed, non-fatiguing experience, that is better suited for longer listening sessions.


----------



## Keputs

Just want to share that I'm getting a very good auditory experience with this combo - ZAX, KZ APTX HD bluetooth cable, Apple Music lossless and Oppo A5 set to Audio APTX HD in developer options. No hiss, stable connectivity and, most importantly, rich, immersive music.


----------



## juli95

You don't get any hiss? That's strange. The ZAX has an even lower impedance than the ZS10 Pro. It should actually be louder. 
Maybe KZ had a lot of faulty badges of the cable and i got one of those 😅


----------



## juli95

InvisibleInk said:


> Can't go wrong with either choice. Choose the DQ6 for a more lively and engaging, but inevitably somewhat fatiguing, experience. Choose the ZEX for a more relaxed, non-fatiguing experience, that is better suited for longer listening sessions.


Thank you! 
Do you know how they both compare to the ZS10 Pro? Does the missing insanity in driver count actually make a difference in resolution, sound stage, etc?


----------



## Echalon

juli95 said:


> Thank you!
> Do you know how they both compare to the ZS10 Pro? Does the missing insanity in driver count actually make a difference in resolution, sound stage, etc?


There’s a crisp definition to the ZS10 Pro that is satisfying but a little fatiguing. Overall I prefer the softer but more musical ZEX. Both are good budget IEMs. I don’t have the DQ6 to compare.


----------



## Keputs

juli95 said:


> You don't get any hiss? That's strange. The ZAX has an even lower impedance than the ZS10 Pro. It should actually be louder.
> Maybe KZ had a lot of faulty badges of the cable and i got one of those 😅


Yes. No hiss at all. That's why I included all the elements of the audio combination for an exact reference. QC may be to blame for any variations.


----------



## riodgarp

r31ya said:


> Its been awhile since i listen to it, but i remember the soundstage got bigger and its tames some of its treble harshness.
> Apparently there is two model, CP220 and CP240. from the review, one focus on mid and bass and the other focus on clarity and treble.



I'm using a generic s size triple flange with short nozzle but it's sometime tricky, especially when after cleaning my ears, then dq6 will sounds dry, less bass, overwhelming treble, need to make my ear canal a little wet


----------



## MacAttack7

lushmelody said:


> Indeed. AST merit, even though a full BA IEM, is the timbre and versatility. The easy capability to EQ it is also undermined. Stock tuning is treble shy, fatigue free, but you can adjust that with small effort and it is very far from the mess ASX is.


I actually love the ASX. I have the AST too, and I keep trying to convince myself I like it better, but at this point it's a tie. 
If you twisted my arm this very moment, I'd take the ASX. But if no arm twisting, then I need some more time to compare them.


----------



## axhng (Nov 9, 2021)

Just got these (KZ EDC) not long ago and they're kinda interesting. Need more time with them for sure, but they sound kinda neutral with a little extra bass and warmth? Which is something I totally wasn't expecting. lol. Technical performance is quite decent for the price too.


----------



## r31ya

A more neutral EDX... Interesting.
Makes me more curious on which direction ZEX pro will take


----------



## ExTubeGamer

If you using a good DAC and have access to good EQ (APO, Pulseeffects, etc), the KZ AST can be the best IEM under 100€. Easily, if you're willing to EQ it. If 100€ is your limit, look for how much the AST sells on 11.11 sale.


----------



## unifutomaki

Translated, basically the AST needs fixing out of the box


----------



## ExTubeGamer

unifutomaki said:


> Translated, basically the AST needs fixing out of the box


This is true, but it becomes an incredible value set.


----------



## InvisibleInk

unifutomaki said:


> Translated, basically the AST needs fixing out of the box


The are so many IEMs and headphones like that, including some that run into the thousands of dollars. No need to translate or bemoan that fact.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 9, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> Translated, basically the AST needs fixing out of the box


The obscured male vocals without a pinch of brightness and detail are unsolvable by EQ. In the absence of a spark, all the vocals are unnaturally veiled for me. For me personally, Aria is a completely different universe in which I feel much better.  I've had enough of these random combinations of cheap BAs from KZ.


----------



## mndless

4ceratops said:


> The obscured male vocals without a pinch of brightness and detail are unsolvable by EQ. In the absence of a spark, all the vocals are unnaturally veiled for me. For me personally, Aria is a completely different universe in which I feel much better.  I've had enough of these random combinations of cheap BAs from KZ.


It's also hard to overstate the benefit you can derive from the single driver coherency of the Aria and other single-DD sets. All multi-driver sets are striving to draw closer to that kind of coherency, and KZ is unlikely to reach it with the way they handle their multi-BA and hybrid sets. It doesn't mean that they can't sound nice, but that they'll just be lacking that little something.


----------



## paulwasabii

illwafer said:


> I've got the KZ VX10 coming tomorrow. Anyone have any tips on setting them up with an LG V60 and Poweramp?
> 
> I'm a happy owner of the ZSX and ZAX. With a little EQing they sound great and are a great value, which is why I decided to stay with KZ for TWS.
> 
> Any reason why I should return them an pick a different pair (Soundpeats H1)?


I like the VX10, maybe a bit more with Tanya filters to relax them a bit. I use them outside mostly and they have replaced my Z1.

In other news, here is CCA CA16 Pro

And quick look


----------



## InvisibleInk

paulwasabii said:


> I like the VX10, maybe a bit more with Tanya filters to relax them a bit. I use them outside mostly and they have replaced my Z1.
> 
> In other news, here is CCA CA16 Pro
> 
> And quick look




If I have the ZAS, then the CA16 Pro is almost the same sounding?


----------



## axhng

paulwasabii said:


> I like the VX10, maybe a bit more with Tanya filters to relax them a bit. I use them outside mostly and they have replaced my Z1.
> 
> In other news, here is CCA CA16 Pro
> 
> And quick look



Thanks for the CA16 Pro graph! got that recently too with the EDC, but haven't really listened to them much.


----------



## paulwasabii

axhng said:


> Thanks for the CA16 Pro graph! got that recently too with the EDC, but haven't really listened to them much.


My EDC was supposed to be in the same box, but it was not. Hopefully someone else will get a measurement soon. I am curious about the EDC and EDS.


----------



## axhng

paulwasabii said:


> My EDC was supposed to be in the same box, but it was not. Hopefully someone else will get a measurement soon. I am curious about the EDC and EDS.


The EDC is kinda interesting for sure. Will be curious to see how it graphs. Was kinda surprised when i first heard it cause it sounded uncharacteristically boring for a pair of KZ.  

That said, for most consumers, the more fun sounding V-shaped EDX, MT1 will probably still be a safer recommendation. But it is kind of an alternative to the Moondrop Quarks perhaps? Quarks is a bit too shouty for my ears and music library, but I do think technical performance and overall tuning in the treble region is better than EDC. Plus Tanya filters can help with that 3kHz peak. But the EDC is cheaper (even without factoring the cost of filters), and is a bit warmer sounding and easier on the ears out of the box. I think cable seems nicer than Quarks too.


----------



## Robius

KZ store told me that they'll release zex pro shortly after 11.11


----------



## Arjey

Robius said:


> KZ store told me that they'll release zex pro shortly after 11.11


Any info on the price?


----------



## lushmelody

I rotate constantly between AST / BLON BL-03 / NF Audio NA2 and I find the single DDs crisper, analogue, "texturized". The AST is cleaner sounding (especially the bass) and better separated, which I also like. Not so mid forward like the other two though (but resolution is good and as I said: clean). So they are just different and none are perfect (and I EQ all). In the end, just wanted to listen something on phone+spotify and not be fatigued, but then.... 3 similar sig IEMs purchases (+ accessories) chasing perfection which I think rn is so pointless. I won't be spiralling so easily on the "upgrade" idea ever again. Just reminding here to appreciate more the audio stuff you already own. Unless an enormous big deal appears in the budget/mid-fi, nothing seems special and purchase worth anymore


----------



## unifutomaki

lushmelody said:


> I rotate constantly between AST / BLON BL-03 / NF Audio NA2 and I find the single DDs crisper, analogue, "texturized". The AST is cleaner sounding (especially the bass) and better separated, which I also like. Not so mid forward like the other two though (but resolution is good and as I said: clean). So they are just different and none are perfect (and I EQ all). In the end, just wanted to listen something on phone+spotify and not be fatigued, but then.... 3 similar sig IEMs purchases (+ accessories) chasing perfection which I think rn is so pointless. I won't be spiralling so easily on the "upgrade" idea ever again. Just reminding here to appreciate more the audio stuff you already own. Unless an enormous big deal appears in the budget/mid-fi, nothing seems special and purchase worth anymore


Agreed, the sidegrade/pokémon collecting game doesn’t really bring me any satisfaction either. I try to keep my collection small and consisting of items that each do something different. Right now my picks are:

WF-1000XM4 for commuting, general use, convenience, outdoors
A4000 for critical listening
PortaPro for relaxed listening at home/office
CAL!2 for PC gaming
I’m going to sell everything else I think, and I don’t need any more gear really.


----------



## Robius

Arjey said:


> Any info on the price?


Sorry I didn't ask about it but I'm guessing somewhere between $30-$40 based on zex's price.


----------



## paulwasabii

InvisibleInk said:


> If I have the ZAS, then the CA16 Pro is almost the same sounding?


I haven't listened to it yet, but after seeing the measurement, I can't imagine the two are radically different.  Back when the CA16 was released and then the ZAX, the assumption was the two would be different.  This year, we had AST/CA24, NRA/ZEX. and now CA16 Pro/ZAS that all seem to be very similar.  At least similar enough that if you have one, may not be necessary to get the other.


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 10, 2021)

So, I just received my AZ09 pro and I am happy to say that finally KZ got it right. I had a really bad to fair experience using the OG AZ09 - connection drop outs, volume level jump too high and sbc/aac codec only. The most annoying is the connection drop outs even when my Bluetooth transmitter from my PC is literally 2 feet away. If I put my hands behind my head, it will drop out and reconnect and repeat. Now with the pro, the connection strength has been improved considerably. I can walk about 10-20ft away and no drop outs. Really props to KZ to finally using the latest BT chip for this pro version.
Also, finally AptX!! I can hear a faint noise or compression on sbc/aac on high volume and the AptX is pretty clean so far.
The last is volume level. While the OG has way higher volume level, KZ stupidly set the gain too high. I couldn't put more than 50% volume when listening to youtube on my PC. And the volume jump from 25% to 30% is way too high. Now with the pro, the volume is more manageable, but it is definitely lower overall compare to the OG.
Overall, I am finally satisfied with KZ bluetooth offering the AZ09 pro. I will do an update down the road if anything change.


I modded - cut the plastic and rubber pieces - on my AZ09 pro to be able to use my KATO.

The pro drives my KATO just fine. I didn't notice any huge loss or any compared to wired.


----------



## voicemaster

juli95 said:


> I have been out of the loop with KZ headphones since i bought my ZS10 Pro. The new favorites around here seem to be the DQ6 and ZEX. How do you they compare to the ZS10 Pro? Should i get one of them?
> 
> And i just ordered the AZ09 Pro after a very disappointing experience with the KZ AptX HD cable (very loud hiss) and the AZ09 (awful sound glitches and bad connection). I hope that they got it right this time. The first reviews sound positive


My experience has been positive so far with the AZ09 pro. Almost everything that I hated in the AZ09 is fixed in the pro.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Buyer:. Oh. This one is better? 

KZ: "one way ... Or another ... I'm gonna find ya ... I'm gonna GITCHA GITCHA GITCHA GITCHA one way ... Or another ... " 

With all apologies to Blondie fans 

I think ca16 pro / ZAS look really nice. I worry these dont have enough treble extension since KZ have abandoned the sound signature that I love so much in C12 and BA10. ZAS has never had a stellar review, but there are a ton of mediocre / meh reviews. I'm just not sold on their black series BA tech. 

I'm patiently waiting on ZEX Pro to see how it fares.


----------



## voicemaster

Holy!! I just realize when you 3-clicks the left side, it goes to full power mode. It is like high/low gain on an amp and it is noticeably louder. The game mode is still there, it just moved to the right side. Another great feature from AZ09 pro.


----------



## voicemaster

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Buyer:. Oh. This one is better?
> 
> KZ: "one way ... Or another ... I'm gonna find ya ... I'm gonna GITCHA GITCHA GITCHA GITCHA one way ... Or another ... "
> 
> ...


I had ZEX for 2 weeks now and I prefer the NRA over the ZEX. The ZEX is too warm for my liking.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

voicemaster said:


> I had ZEX for 2 weeks now and I prefer the NRA over the ZEX. The ZEX is too warm for my liking.



Same. I skipped ZEX since the attribute I liked most about NRA is its neutral'ish bass curve.


----------



## axhng

voicemaster said:


> I had ZEX for 2 weeks now and I prefer the NRA over the ZEX. The ZEX is too warm for my liking.


For me I prefer the NRA's lows, but prefer the ZEX's slightly smoother highs. I still lean towards the ZEX a tiny bit more just because it's a tad less fatiguing for my ears, and the warmer sound is just the lesser of 2 evils for me. Not a fan of the mids on either of them. hope that maybe the ZEX Pro can help with that, but not holding my breath.


----------



## voicemaster

axhng said:


> For me I prefer the NRA's lows, but prefer the ZEX's slightly smoother highs. I still lean towards the ZEX a tiny bit more just because it's a tad less fatiguing for my ears, and the warmer sound is just the lesser of 2 evils for me. Not a fan of the mids on either of them. hope that maybe the ZEX Pro can help with that, but not holding my breath.


I wrote earlier when I received my ZEX that it is going to need some miracle to awed me because at the same time, I also just received my KATO and Timeless .


----------



## r31ya (Nov 10, 2021)

As a newbie, don't exactly get it much in terms of technical details of iems sounds, but considering every critisism in $70+ KZ is in its tonality and timbre tuning.
i sincerely hopes that one day KZ got a great tuner to work with its insane hardware offering so it can compete with Mid-fi or at least got the tonality and timbre close to it.
As for now, while KZ have "great technicality" it still a fair bit behind in terms on getting the musicality, tonality, or timbre which its competitor have it in leagues in $80~$120 range segment.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

voicemaster said:


> I wrote earlier when I received my ZEX that it is going to need some miracle to awed me because at the same time, I also just received my KATO and Timeless .



That's brutal. Lol 

I'm getting to the brain burn-in stage with heart mirrors. Effortless treble, imaging for days  nice neutral FR. I listen to these and think: "jfc. All this KZ stuff is hot garbage."  Then I swap to CCA/KZ pair. "Wait. Wut? Uhhhh Nope! Hot damn these are still really freaking awesome!"  

They all do something a bit different. Kato is high on my watch list with some of the other single DDs. TRI Meteor on my radar as well. But I need them like I need a 3rd refrigerator.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> As a newbie, don't exactly get it much in terms of technical details of iems sounds, but considering every critisism in $70+ KZ is in its tonality and timbre tuning.
> i sincerely hopes that one day KZ got a great tuner to work with its insane hardware offering so it can compete with Mid-fi or at least got the tonality and timbre close to it.
> As for now, while KZ have "great technicality" it still a fair bit behind in terms on getting the musicality, tonality, or timbre which its competitor have it in leagues in $80~$120 range segment.



Tonality is like colors of paint on a car. silver-greys and white sell the most, followed by black. Then people branch off into warm colors or cool colors. Harman lovers want silver-grey. I'd bet they drive a BMW or a Volvo. Boring. 

KZ used to specialize in metallic teal. It was a bit strange but oddly popular at the same time. Now they're shipping in white. It offends the least, but color haters hate that it isn't their shade of anti-color. 

I could care less about their color criticism, personally, but I do kinda miss that teal. 

You won't find technicalities in other brands at these price points, at least not consistenly. I encourage folks to EQ and make sure they've got a good amp.


----------



## InvisibleInk (Nov 11, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Tonality is like colors of paint on a car. silver-greys and white sell the most, followed by black. Then people branch off into warm colors or cool colors. Harman lovers want silver-grey. I'd bet they drive a BMW or a Volvo. Boring.
> 
> KZ used to specialize in metallic teal. It was a bit strange but oddly popular at the same time. Now they're shipping in white. It offends the least, but color haters hate that it isn't their shade of anti-color.
> 
> ...













Here's you teal, Bro


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

To illustrate: 

Harman curve: 




KZ factory hooligans:


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Tonality is like colors of paint on a car. silver-greys and white sell the most, followed by black. Then people branch off into warm colors or cool colors. Harman lovers want silver-grey. I'd bet they drive a BMW or a Volvo. Boring.
> 
> KZ used to specialize in metallic teal. It was a bit strange but oddly popular at the same time. Now they're shipping in white. It offends the least, but color haters hate that it isn't their shade of anti-color.
> 
> ...


I like purple, really bright and saturated yellow, and that unfortunately maligned orange. You know the one?



Also the other colors for good measure:






So either rich and refined or flamboyant and eccentric.


----------



## evasb (Nov 10, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> To illustrate:
> 
> Harman curve:
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's pretty much it. KZ generally sounds pretty reckless and fun, and harmanish ones are cool and smooth, but sometimes can sound boring.

"Classic" KZ's tuning hard edges are pretty good for thrash metal, speed metal in general -- you can feel the guitar distortion, hear the fingers sliding in the strings, and it's like an underground concert in your head.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

KZ fam chiming in


----------



## bhazard

Got the ZEX in today. If you turn down the midbass, these are quite enjoyable and better than the NRA for me.

You can't fix the NRA via EQ IMO, but on the ZEX it feels like that small adjustment levels it up. Hopefully the Pro brings it down a notch without needing EQ, which would be a true winner to me.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> As a newbie, don't exactly get it much in terms of technical details of iems sounds, but considering every critisism in $70+ KZ is in its tonality and timbre tuning.
> i sincerely hopes that one day KZ got a great tuner to work with its insane hardware offering so it can compete with Mid-fi or at least got the tonality and timbre close to it.
> As for now, while KZ have "great technicality" it still a fair bit behind in terms on getting the musicality, tonality, or timbre which its competitor have it in leagues in $80~$120 range segment.



I should have mentioned that I agree mostly with what you're saying here for products hitting over $70 mark. People expect more at higher prices and there's less room for heavy flavoring. 

AST is the best example. i consider it a disappointment for being heavily L shaped and over 115 euros.  For the tuning to be that lopsided feels like a crime, but it has its fans, too. They went from sparkly teal to deep purple. So at the end of the day, it's still kinda classic KZ.


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I should have mentioned that I agree mostly with what you're saying here for products hitting over $70 mark. People expect more at higher prices and there's less room for heavy flavoring.
> 
> AST is the best example. i consider it a disappointment for being heavily L shaped and over 115 euros.  For the tuning to be that lopsided feels like a crime, but it has its fans, too. They went from sparkly teal to deep purple. So at the end of the day, it's still kinda classic KZ.


I wonder how they'd do for albums ripped from vinyl, since vinyl doesn't exactly have as much upper treble detail in the first place. Or maybe it was to make digital recordings sound more analog, like a vinyl played on a record player. Not sure, and I'm unwilling to part with the cost of the AST or its CCA counterpart to find out.


----------



## unifutomaki

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Tonality is like colors of paint on a car. silver-greys and white sell the most, followed by black. Then people branch off into warm colors or cool colors. Harman lovers want silver-grey. I'd bet they drive a BMW or a Volvo. Boring.
> 
> KZ used to specialize in metallic teal. It was a bit strange but oddly popular at the same time. Now they're shipping in white. It offends the least, but color haters hate that it isn't their shade of anti-color.
> 
> ...



And given that we're all in this hobby, we want a diverse range of colours - what's the point of having 10 silver cars XD


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

mndless said:


> I wonder how they'd do for albums ripped from vinyl, since vinyl doesn't exactly have as much upper treble detail in the first place. Or maybe it was to make digital recordings sound more analog, like a vinyl played on a record player. Not sure, and I'm unwilling to part with the cost of the AST or its CCA counterpart to find out.



The turn table league (TTL) will have you hanged for that comment! Haha 

It's the tube freaks that are addicted to the subtle art of tasteful signal degredation. I'm a recovering vinyl hipster and can honestly say that there's no shortage of treble in good pressings. A lot of rips are just made with mediocre DAC and/or setup. 

This E1DA has a vinyl preset. To my ears it just rolls off the treble and attempts to emulate a tube amp. 

My pet theory with zero basis in facts whatsoever is that KZ engineers were so tired of being brow beaten about "murder treble" and treble complaining that they just caved in and rolled it off across the board.


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> The turn table league (TTL) will have you hanged for that comment! Haha
> 
> It's the tube freaks that are addicted to the subtle art of tasteful signal degredation. I'm a recovering vinyl hipster and can honestly say that there's no shortage of treble in good pressings. A lot of rips are just made with mediocre DAC and/or setup.
> 
> ...


I'm squarely of the position that it is perfectly fine to like and even prefer vinyl over digital recordings, but in the end, it all comes down to mastering. As for which is the technically "superior" recording medium, it's gonna have to go to digital, as you can use microphones with massive diaphragms, extremely low distortion, and frequency pickup ranges far exceeding those of human hearing to record audio at ridiculously massive sampling rates and huge bit depth. You just can't match the resolution, channel separation, noise floor, and dynamic range of modern digital recordings with vinyl. But, of course, none of that matters, or should matter, if you *prefer* the sound of vinyl. Totally up to the listener what they like. I just dislike when people try to make false assertions about what vinyl can do in an attempt to demonstrate a supposed superiority where there isn't one.

I've heard some pretty good vinyl pressings from modern masterings and they do sound good, but they seem decidedly suited to the more traditional range of frequencies that instruments could hit before we went full synth and started hitting those 10kHz+ frequencies with some regularity. From what I could tell, vinyl struggles to keep up after 7kHz and pretty much falls flat after 11kHz. Not necessarily a bad thing, my GD7B have significant treble rolloff at those points and I love them anyway, so it's a very subjective appreciation, as essentially all of this hobby is.


----------



## mndless

I decided to try tossing a set of DioFit eartips on my CCA CKX to give them another listen. Thanks to how much they damp treble and mids peaks, I ended up needing to reverse some of my other mods to the set. They sound nice, but some of the cymbals in rock can get a bit too splashy and hot. I definitely will give credit where it's due, these things have some absolutely incredible sub-bass and bass performance. Fairly tight overall, good slam, and incredible reach down low. Honestly, that's the only reason I keep going back to them. The deep, thunderous bass is just ridiculously addictive. I'll probably end up swapping back to my GD7B once these get fatiguing, but I'll enjoy them while I can. If anyone finds the CKX only mildly fatiguing and would like to improve the bass yet further, try out the DioFit standard leakage or their standard silicone eartips. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 11, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> My pet theory with zero basis in facts whatsoever is that KZ engineers were so tired of being brow beaten about "murder treble" and treble complaining that they just caved in and rolled it off across the board.



Honestly, I could get behind that theory.

I find the ZEX to be completely inoffensive, yet it hasn’t really held my attention in any way. Despite its magic dust magnetostat driver, I haven’t really been excited to listen to it or to see how it reproduces a particular song. All I can really say about it is that “it’s fine”. Am I the only one who feels this way?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 11, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I should have mentioned that I agree mostly with what you're saying here for products hitting over $70 mark. People expect more at higher prices and there's less room for heavy flavoring.
> 
> AST is the best example. i consider it a disappointment for being heavily L shaped and over 115 euros.  For the tuning to be that lopsided feels like a crime, but it has its fans, too. They went from sparkly teal to deep purple. So at the end of the day, it's still kinda classic KZ.


Did you hear AST for the "heavily L" shape?
BA bass is quite different in that it is not imposing and omnipresent, like DD one (I have modified ASX with way more bass than AST, I love it, though some double bass solos push it  but then the treble is there as well in ASX rampant and wild).
AST have an amazing BA array - soft smooth and resolving, quite similar to planars (I prefer AST to TRI I3).
KZ engineers really opted to left the array as is in AST. 30095 is there but buried deep. My ideal plan is to try to enlarge the treble guide in AST.

In a larger picture, my ever solidifying conspiracy theory is that KZ knows how to do it - but they just do not want to murder the rest of ChiFi - hence huge BA10 shells, narrow constraining nozzle of ASX and curtailed treble of AST.

On another note, I could not resist an amazing KZ sale and got my ASF (now I have all all-BA KZ pokemons) and a second pair of AS12 for under $25 each (BA10 are sild at around $20 there - KZ Official Store ).
AS12 can be recommended as a good IEM to play with the treble dampening, if one is interested - the really rampant (and I mean it) treble BAs there are heaviiy dampened, so undampening them and finding your treble tolerance can be some fun.


----------



## evasb

PhonoPhi said:


> [...]
> In a larger picture, my ever solidifying conspiracy theory is that KZ knows how to do it - but they just do not want to murder the rest of ChiFi [...]


I've heard a conspiracy theory that KZ original founders actually own or are investors of most of the Shenzhen's ChiFi industry.


----------



## Ceeluh7

PhonoPhi said:


> Did you hear AST for the "heavily L" shape?
> BA bass is quite different in that it is not imposing and omnipresent, like DD one (I have modified ASX with way more bass than AST, I love it, though some double bass solos push it  but then the treble is there as well in ASX rampant and wild).
> AST have an amazing BA array - soft smooth and resolving, quite similar to planars (I prefer AST to TRI I3).
> KZ engineers really opted to left the array as is in AST. 30095 is there but buried deep. My ideal plan is to try to enlarge the treble guide in AST.
> ...


I heard the ASF are very Bass Heavy. I suppose I could eq or mod that out of them...i think you truly cannot go wrong for 25 bucks. Amazon has that sale as well, just not on Prime.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Nov 11, 2021)

evasb said:


> I've heard a conspiracy theory that KZ original founders actually own or are investors of most of the Shenzhen's ChiFi industry.



yeah I have to believe they started out as OEM manufacturers and have cross-over interests with quite a few of these brands.  Tripowin is one of them I believe.  I could swear too that GK10 is using older KZ 10mm DDs based on the photos of tear downs I've seen.



PhonoPhi said:


> In a larger picture, my ever solidifying conspiracy theory is that KZ knows how to do it - but they just do not want to murder the rest of ChiFi - hence huge BA10 shells, narrow constraining nozzle of ASX and curtailed treble of AST.



Can you imagine? It would actually be a complete slaughter. I also kinda think that the early treble heavy tunings were there to please domestic Chinese market. Probably western market tastes around electronic and pop has influenced the signature for chinese market as well over the past 5 years or so that they've been active.



PhonoPhi said:


> On another note, I could not resist an amazing KZ sale and got my ASF (now I have all all-BA KZ pokemons) and a second pair of AS12 for under $25 each (BA10 are sild at around $20 there - KZ Official Store ).



luck you're not in EU.  ASF is still over 40 euros on KZ store. 

AST is 131 euro for 11.11 sale. $150  That's only 20 euro less than Tri I3 pro. 
ASX is 82 euro ($95)
AS10 is 42 euro ($48)

but BA10 is indeed selling for 22 euro.  I paid 60 euro a couple months back ($70 then).

I have BA10 already - love 'em. For me personally the new round of all BA sets just don't have much to offer for my treble hungry ears. 

A lot of the single DD units are harman tuned as well. I might end up with a copy of A4000 soon ... but its _only because _I keep coming back to head-fi which puts me in a shopping mode of thought.  curses!


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

Snagged the BA10 for 24 euro five minutes ago. Couldn't believe the price. Also got the sand fair dee tee about a two weeks ago and a new dac. It's been a good fortnight for this chi fi hobbyist indeed. I do believe kz is behind the entire chi fi scene. The kz zsr is the best iem I have ever used. Genius construction. For 15 euro.........crazy value.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 11, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> yeah I have to believe they started out as OEM manufacturers and have cross-over interests with quite a few of these brands.  Tripowin is one of them I believe.  I could swear too that GK10 is using older KZ 10mm DDs based on the photos of tear downs I've seen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You may consider AS16 (on sale under $50) - made for classical music lovers. Most of the classical music recordings have strongly rolled off treble, the recording habits/traditions.
AS16 have two bass BAs (vs. 1 in BA10/AS10,), yet the bass is gentle and only there when needed. No 30095s - different treble BAs, yet 2-3 kHz region is maximally enhanced for the resolution and engagement.
I paid just under $100 for mine, and still the best $100 spent. I  am now on the dark bass side with my modified ASX (and like AST for the smoothness and contrast). AST and CA16  are two IEMs that I could picture for vinyl lovers. I never had any vinyls, and spending a good deal of my life with scanning probe microscopy - one would have hard time to convince me that those silly grooves are a good way to record the high-fidelity information 

Another hot treble KZ creation is CCA A10 or KBear KB10. I love it for the plucked strings (so can't imagine my collection without it, but definitely a specialty IEM) kind of ZS10 pro with a bass BA, so the treble is hot and bass is there only when needed 


evasb said:


> I've heard a conspiracy theory that KZ original founders actually own or are investors of most of the Shenzhen's ChiFi industry.


I can imagine it.
My first audiophile IEM was "Audiophile" that happened to be the rebranding of some old good KZ, as I figured out lately - built like a tank and nice enough to trigger my audiophile journey


----------



## juli95

Anycolouryoulike said:


> Snagged the BA10 for 24 euro five minutes ago. Couldn't believe the price. Also got the sand fair dee tee about a two weeks ago and a new dac. It's been a good fortnight for this chi fi hobbyist indeed. I do believe kz is behind the entire chi fi scene. The kz zsr is the best iem I have ever used. Genius construction. For 15 euro.........crazy value.


I also just bought the BA10. Thank you! I wouldn't have known about it without you. That's really a great deal. 
I just hope that the simple Bluetooth cable, that was in the deal, is alright. Because my other Bluetooth upgrade stuff has C-Pin, while the BA10 has B-Pin. And i don't want to buy any more Bluetooth upgrades. I already have 5 of them 😅


----------



## r31ya

PhonoPhi said:


> I can imagine it.
> My first audiophile IEM was "Audiophile" that happened to be the rebranding of some old good KZ, as I figured out lately - built like a tank and nice enough to trigger my audiophile journey


I mean, the early KZ ZST still have lots of fans nowadays. My brother in law still using his despite cracked shell and despite i gave him DQ6 for his birthday. The later successor KZ ZSN still being used by many of my friends.
And i know at least one iem store who begun with KZ (and soundmagic) as their main selling point.

Yeah, KZ is a starter of many people audiophile journey.


----------



## SybilLance

voicemaster said:


> So, I just received my AZ09 pro and I am happy to say that finally KZ got it right. I had a really bad to fair experience using the OG AZ09 - connection drop outs, volume level jump too high and sbc/aac codec only. The most annoying is the connection drop outs even when my Bluetooth transmitter from my PC is literally 2 feet away. If I put my hands behind my head, it will drop out and reconnect and repeat. Now with the pro, the connection strength has been improved considerably. I can walk about 10-20ft away and no drop outs. Really props to KZ to finally using the latest BT chip for this pro version.
> Also, finally AptX!! I can hear a faint noise or compression on sbc/aac on high volume and the AptX is pretty clean so far.
> The last is volume level. While the OG has way higher volume level, KZ stupidly set the gain too high. I couldn't put more than 50% volume when listening to youtube on my PC. And the volume jump from 25% to 30% is way too high. Now with the pro, the volume is more manageable, but it is definitely lower overall compare to the OG.
> Overall, I am finally satisfied with KZ bluetooth offering the AZ09 pro. I will do an update down the road if anything change.
> ...


Ooh! I got the matte finish KATO yesterday for ~$148 (11.11). Was about to order the KZ AZ09 Pro with my remaining Shopee vouchers and coins for -$19 but according to the seller they'll have the B-Pin variant soon, so I opted to rein in the horses for this one and wait instead. You give me a craft knife and I'd probably cut the whole darn pin assembly off. ☺️


----------



## axhng

r31ya said:


> I mean, the early KZ ZST still have lots of fans nowadays. My brother in law still using his despite cracked shell and despite i gave him DQ6 for his birthday. The later successor KZ ZSN still being used by many of my friends.
> And i know at least one iem store who begun with KZ (and soundmagic) as their main selling point.
> 
> Yeah, KZ is a starter of many people audiophile journey.










It was the start of mine too with the ZSN Pro. Before that, I had switched to using solely wireless stuff like Jaybirds and some other TWS earbuds for some years after my UE600 died. I bought the ZSN Pro just for fun since it was so cheap and it made me realised how decent the really cheap stuff has become, and how much more accessible the hobby is these days.


----------



## saldsald

Anycolouryoulike said:


> Snagged the BA10 for 24 euro five minutes ago. Couldn't believe the price. Also got the sand fair dee tee about a two weeks ago and a new dac. It's been a good fortnight for this chi fi hobbyist indeed. I do believe kz is behind the entire chi fi scene. The kz zsr is the best iem I have ever used. Genius construction. For 15 euro.........crazy value.


It is actually RMB93 on TaoBao, wow, that's 12 euro.


----------



## evasb (Nov 11, 2021)

It's just an impression, or Shopee prices tend to be a little better than on AliExpress?


----------



## Tzennn

evasb said:


> It's just an impression, or Shopee prices tend to be a little better than on AliExpress?


"Always has been"


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 11, 2021)

SybilLance said:


> Ooh! I got the matte finish KATO yesterday for ~$148 (11.11). Was about to order the KZ AZ09 Pro with my remaining Shopee vouchers and coins for -$19 but according to the seller they'll have the B-Pin variant soon, so I opted to rein in the horses for this one and wait instead. You give me a craft knife and I'd probably cut the whole darn pin assembly off. ☺️


I used a regular scissor to cut it . I think you will love the KATO and AZ09 pro. I actually ordered the B-pin, but they sent me the C-pin instead .
Btw, I have TRN BT30 coming in as well. Will do a comparison between the two.


----------



## r31ya

BGGAR posted this, *KZ T10*, a noise cancelling headphone.


----------



## G777

That headband doesn't look like it's adjustable...


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren (Nov 12, 2021)

Fellow Head-fiers, Check out my review on KZ's sister company's product. CCA CA16 pro. Please click the link below:



https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-ca16-pro.25542/reviews


----------



## SybilLance

evasb said:


> It's just an impression, or Shopee prices tend to be a little better than on AliExpress?





Tzennn said:


> "Always has been"


Actually AliExpress still has the lowest, and it has lots of discount vouchers available. Where you get killed is in the shipping charges. Lazada and Shopee more or less have the same prices; the former's base shipping rate is higher, however, and you rarely get free shipping vouchers. Unlike before you can now stack your vouchers in Shopee. For example for the Moondrop KATO, you look for the most reliable seller with the lowest price, get the store voucher, then the free shipping vouchers, then the cashback vouchers (returned as coins), then that special electronic 8% off voucher capped at ₱500 (~$10), then lastly you use your coins which is 1:1 with the Philippine Peso. You could really knock a lot off the listed price.


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> So, I just received my AZ09 pro and I am happy to say that finally KZ got it right. I had a really bad to fair experience using the OG AZ09 - connection drop outs, volume level jump too high and sbc/aac codec only. The most annoying is the connection drop outs even when my Bluetooth transmitter from my PC is literally 2 feet away. If I put my hands behind my head, it will drop out and reconnect and repeat. Now with the pro, the connection strength has been improved considerably. I can walk about 10-20ft away and no drop outs. Really props to KZ to finally using the latest BT chip for this pro version.
> Also, finally AptX!! I can hear a faint noise or compression on sbc/aac on high volume and the AptX is pretty clean so far.
> The last is volume level. While the OG has way higher volume level, KZ stupidly set the gain too high. I couldn't put more than 50% volume when listening to youtube on my PC. And the volume jump from 25% to 30% is way too high. Now with the pro, the volume is more manageable, but it is definitely lower overall compare to the OG.
> Overall, I am finally satisfied with KZ bluetooth offering the AZ09 pro. I will do an update down the road if anything change.
> ...


Great review!  I love my AZ09 Pro too. I just bought 3 more at the 11/11 AE sale. I like the AZ09 Pro much better than the BT20s Pro!


----------



## Viber (Nov 12, 2021)

I need help urgently! (stupid linsoul gift cards about to expire!)

What would you pick in the 50$ range?  ZAX or MELE ?  Anything else maybe? (and why)

I love the sound of ZS6 (1st batch) and looking for an upgrade.

I listen mostly to bright uplifting trance and electric guitar driven rock and soundtracks (hate 2K peaks).


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Anycolouryoulike said:


> Snagged the BA10 for 24 euro five minutes ago. Couldn't believe the price. Also got the sand fair dee tee about a two weeks ago and a new dac. It's been a good fortnight for this chi fi hobbyist indeed. I do believe kz is behind the entire chi fi scene. The kz zsr is the best iem I have ever used. Genius construction. For 15 euro.........crazy value.



The BA_chmeister_10 as I like to call them area very good set IMO and I think the tech and the tuning has aged well. I really enjoy the bass in these and it's not like the "BA bass". It doesn't have the same slam as a dynamic but it's really splitting hairs and requires listening critically to notice.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Nov 12, 2021)

Viber said:


> I need help urgently! (stupid linsoul gift cards about to expire!)
> 
> What would you pick in the 50$ range?  ZAX or MELE ?  Anything else maybe? (and why)



Mele: single DD, warm signature with a focus on rock music.

ZAX: crammed with 1 DD and 7 BA per side.  Vee shaped sound, very solid bottom end but has bright upper mids and lower treble.


ZAX is still one of KZ's best pairs IMO. So much is dependent on personal preference that I don't think you can call one better than the other.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

SybilLance said:


> Ooh! I got the matte finish KATO yesterday for ~$148 (11.11). Was about to order the KZ AZ09 Pro with my remaining Shopee vouchers and coins for -$19 but according to the seller they'll have the B-Pin variant soon, so I opted to rein in the horses for this one and wait instead. You give me a craft knife and I'd probably cut the whole darn pin assembly off. ☺️



The KATO is a really nice looking set. Very interested to hear your impressions of it.


----------



## r31ya

Viber said:


> I need help urgently! (stupid linsoul gift cards about to expire!)
> 
> What would you pick in the 50$ range?  ZAX or MELE ?  Anything else maybe? (and why)
> 
> ...


I you like bright, clarity, and have access to dac/amp get HeartMirror.
But if you like electric guitar, rock, slammy bass, male vocal centric, get Mele


----------



## Viber

r31ya said:


> I you like bright, clarity, and have access to dac/amp get HeartMirror.
> But if you like electric guitar, rock, slammy bass, male vocal centric, get Mele



I'm limited to Linsoul products (giftcard).

Now i'm thinking about CA16 PRO and GOLD PLANAR GL400 combo haha.  

The time pressure is killing me...


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Nov 12, 2021)

Viber said:


> I'm limited to Linsoul products (giftcard).
> 
> Now i'm thinking about CA16 PRO and GOLD PLANAR GL400 combo haha.
> 
> The time pressure is killing me...



I literally closed alixpress just now before ordering ca16 pro. lol  probably going to have faster transients from bottom end with the XUN style driver compared to ZAX. 

I've looked over GL400 and don't think the sound can match the hype _appeal of the planar promise_. Tri I3 pro is surely better than those. KBEAR just launched a black version of Aurora. :-o my online shopping cards are skeered!

edit:  fixed it.


----------



## Viber

paulwasabii said:


> I like the VX10, maybe a bit more with Tanya filters to relax them a bit. I use them outside mostly and they have replaced my Z1.
> 
> In other news, here is CCA CA16 Pro
> 
> And quick look




How is the Bass on VX10 ?
Debating now between them or ZAX+BT20S adapter.


----------



## Tzennn

Viber said:


> How is the Bass on VX10 ?
> Debating now between them or ZAX+BT20S


Kz DQ6 + Y4 tuning filter is better set. If you like orchestra, try CCA CSN.


----------



## Viber (Nov 12, 2021)

Gah, idk what the hell i'm doing.

Just bought CA16 PRO+VX10 for 65$.  I'll do a short review on both upon arrival.
Funny thing: i'm suppose to get additional 20$ credit because my order ends with a 7 ?🤷‍♂️

Overall, i'm not sure i'd recommend the linsoul 11.11 Giftcard\deals experience.
Do it if you know *exactly* what you want to buy beforehand.


...................plz dont haunt me 7hz Timeless, maybe someday...😢.........................


----------



## mndless

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I literally closed alixpress just now before ordering ca16 pro. lol  probably going to have faster transients from bottom end with the XUN style driver compared to ZAX.
> 
> I've looked over GL400 and don't think the sound can match the hype _appeal of the planar promise_. Tri I3 pro is surely better than those. KBEAR just launched a black version of Aurora. :-o my online shopping cards are skeered!
> 
> edit:  fixed it.


The Toneking P10 and BL1 look interesting, though the BL1 seems to have more fans in this forum than the P10. Comments on the P10 typically involve mentioning that it sounds too warm and that seems to be where they end, as if that is a damning feature that ruins a set irredeemably. Well, whatever. They're roughly the same cost and the BL1 has a massive planar driver with a huge number of vent ports, so it's certainly an interesting departure from the usual designs. The P10 looks more like they took a shell from their standard 10MM dynamic line, slightly enlarged the port, and tossed in a 10mm planar driver to still end up with something that, by their marketing, graphs quite attractively. At around $160, I'd say either make an attractive prospect if you don't mind the wired life (because planars are notoriously too power hungry for bluetooth adapters). Maybe once I have spare cash to throw around, I'll get both. It certainly won't be anytime soon, though.


----------



## paulwasabii (Nov 12, 2021)

Viber said:


> Gah, idk what the hell i'm doing.
> 
> Just bought CA16 PRO+VX10 for 65$.  I'll do a short review on both upon arrival.
> Funny thing: i'm suppose to get additional 20$ credit because my order ends with a 7 ?🤷‍♂️
> ...


I use Tanya filters on the VX10 as I use them outdoors and typically louder than normal.  With filters, just slightly smoother at outdoor/mowing the lawn volume.  I don't think I would do the same with CA16 Pro.  As others have mentioned in the reviews, at higher volumes, there is a fatiguing bit to it.  Something I don't remember about the ZAS.

But I was curious and did re-measure my both sides of my ZAS this morning.


----------



## Viber

paulwasabii said:


> I use Tanya filters on the VX10 as I use them outdoors and typically louder than normal.  With filters, just slightly smoother at outdoor/mowing the lawn volume.  I don't think I would do the same with CA16 Pro.  As others have mentioned in the reviews, at higher volumes, there is a fatiguing bit to it.  Something I don't remember about the ZAS.
> 
> But I was curious and did re-measure my both sides of my ZAS this morning.



In terms of overall sound quality and bass-mids-treble performance, does the VX10 live in the same realm as those wired ones?

About the CA16P - I did a little test today with my ZS6 and ZSR:
I really boosed 4K-5K and some of the bass to simulate things and luckily i wasn't bothered by those frequencies. I'm always very sensitive to  ~1.5K-3.K though.


----------



## voicemaster

whitete said:


> Great review!  I love my AZ09 Pro too. I just bought 3 more at the 11/11 AE sale. I like the AZ09 Pro much better than the BT20s Pro!


The only advantage of bt20s pro is the swappable pin connector. Connection stability is on par with bt20s pro now, volume and power output is better on the AZ09 pro. Form factor also better on AZ09, smaller case, smaller earhook, the same battery life. On top of all that, the AZ09 has gaming mode and full power mode (high gain). Tried to play dota2 using AZ09 and it doesn't have any delay in gaming mode which is pretty crazy.


----------



## paulwasabii

Viber said:


> In terms of overall sound quality and bass-mids-treble performance, does the VX10 live in the same realm as those wired ones?
> 
> About the CA16P - I did a little test today with my ZS6 and ZSR:
> I really boosed 4K-5K and some of the bass to simulate things and luckily i wasn't bothered by those frequencies. I'm always very sensitive to  ~1.5K-3.K though.


In the realm, sure. When I got the Z1, it wasn't far from the ZSTX. $30 tws and $20 wired.  But a $50usd KZ isn't going to beat a wired $50usd KZ. It is still tws and has tradeoffs. 1.5-3.5k might hit you.


----------



## Viber

paulwasabii said:


> In the realm, sure. When I got the Z1, it wasn't far from the ZSTX. $30 tws and $20 wired.  But a $50usd KZ isn't going to beat a wired $50usd KZ. It is still tws and has tradeoffs. 1.5-3.5k might hit you.




hmmm, i guess TWS will always have a use due to their nature.  at worst they'll be relegated to heavily EQ'd workouts and short walks.
I hated the Fiil T1 lite , but i EQ'd them well enough for these uses. 
 If the VX10 will be as good as 1st batch ZSR i'll be on cloud9.


In regards to the CA16P - all i expect from them is to be 15% better technically than the ZS6 (i know the sound sig is different).

Iv'e watched your YT reviews, they are very detailed and appreciated, but i dont think this price segment is meant for critical listening (which is a problematic concept regardless IMO).


----------



## Aparker2005

So for the 11.11 sale. Any recommendations for some new iems, kz or CCA? I use them for regular music listening, and on stage for drumming/performances.

Currently have DQ6 and CCA-CA16. The DQ6 fits perfectly. The CCA hurts my ears with the shape after 10 minutes or so. 

My 3rd pair are custom fit ultimate ears UE5 Pros.


----------



## Viber

Aparker2005 said:


> So for the 11.11 sale. Any recommendations for some new iems, kz or CCA? I use them for regular music listening, and on stage for drumming/performances.
> 
> Currently have DQ6 and CCA-CA16. The DQ6 fits perfectly. The CCA hurts my ears with the shape after 10 minutes or so.
> 
> My 3rd pair are custom fit ultimate ears UE5 Pros.



mmm maybe check out CCA CKX.  The shell is much smaller.


----------



## saldsald

Viber said:


> Gah, idk what the hell i'm doing.
> 
> Just bought CA16 PRO+VX10 for 65$.  I'll do a short review on both upon arrival.
> Funny thing: i'm suppose to get additional 20$ credit because my order ends with a 7 ?🤷‍♂️


How did you manage to get both at that price?


----------



## Viber

saldsald said:


> How did you manage to get both at that price?



Linsoul Gift Cards.
It's on certain sales, you buy 100$ card for 50,   50$ for 30 etc.  They are gone in like ten minutes so they are easy to miss.   I missed the event before because i was in the shower during those ten minutes lol.

The catch is:
Linsoul is more expansive than Ali and you have to pay shipping for many countries + you are limited to their stock and you have to use the Gift Card during a short sale or it's going down the drain.


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

KZ EDC is probably the most unlike typical KZ tuning right now. Though need a better DAC/amp on this one.


----------



## Viber

So i wanted to buy Bluetooth adapters for my KZs yesterday. 
I was really locked on the TRN BT20s pros which were heavily discounted, but after reading almost full pages of bad reviews they really seemed to have very poor quality control.  

AZ09 seems to be no different. 

TRN BT3S has great battery life (20H), but seems bulky and the left channel mysteriously stops working for some people.

Eventually i opted out for 2 of the newer APTX HD KZ cable, *anyone has some experience with those?  *the older APTX cable was good to me. Very compact and aside from a fixable volume gain problem,removing the silly metal from the wire and "only" 8H battery i was quite satisfied.

*Would love to see comments about the durability and reliability of the AZ09 Pros as the months roll on.  *@voicemaster do you have a picture of them with the case, side by side with the BT20s pro?


----------



## unifutomaki

Zerstorer_GOhren said:


> KZ EDC is probably the most unlike typical KZ tuning right now. Though need a better DAC/amp on this one.


In what way do they differ?


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

unifutomaki said:


> In what way do they differ?


 They are more in balanced-neutral sounding leaning in dark tuning


----------



## r31ya

Zerstorer_GOhren said:


> They are more in balanced-neutral sounding leaning in dark tuning


Ooooh, KZ with balanced neutral tuning...
I wonder if KZ is mad enough to make KZ ZEX Pro with neutral-ish with mild bass boost SQ


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Nov 13, 2021)

InvisibleInk said:


> Here's you teal, Bro



ha!  I missed this post from before.  Not these things!  that's not teal - this color is straight up the same aquatic animal holding cell color used at U.S. zoos during the 1970s.  Like, sad hippo shielding their young from onlookers while standing in a shallow, dirty pool with a few inches of water during 100+ degree summer weather kinds of horror show. I see those and I can can smell it.

edit.  why did i google img search that.  a lot of places haven't changed.  "hey BLONdie, set me freeeeeeee"


----------



## jant71

Right, not teal. More in the mint or seafoam area.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

jant71 said:


> Right, not teal. More in the mint or seafoam area.



my wife calls it mint and semi-loves that color.  we argue about it every time.  lol


----------



## jant71

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> my wife calls it mint and semi-loves that color.  we argue about it every time.  lol


It is a color "we" call mint for some reason. Though that Blon is a bit darker than mint really. But mint in reality should be a darker leaf color and not a pale pastel shade of green.  The Blon is pretty close to 50's Chevy Pinecrest green though.


----------



## lushmelody

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ha!  I missed this post from before.  Not these things!  that's not teal - this color is straight up the same aquatic animal holding cell color used at U.S. zoos during the 1970s.  Like, sad hippo shielding their young from onlookers while standing in a shallow, dirty pool with a few inches of water during 100+ degree summer weather kinds of horror show. I see those and I can can smell it.
> 
> edit.  why did i google img search that.  a lot of places haven't changed.  "hey BLONdie, set me freeeeeeee"


Its turquoise, very fun and unique


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> So i wanted to buy Bluetooth adapters for my KZs yesterday.
> I was really locked on the TRN BT20s pros which were heavily discounted, but after reading almost full pages of bad reviews they really seemed to have very poor quality control.
> 
> AZ09 seems to be no different.
> ...




I would say just get the AZ09 pro. Its been solid for the past couple of days.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I actually really wanted to get a pair of BL05S to give the BLON brand a 2nd chance, but just couldn't get past the color.




lushmelody said:


> Its turquoise, very fun and unique



I could agree with that.  A lot of stones are indeed pretty close to that color. I like my turquoise to be a bit more on the blue side    (all 3 of these folks are tremendously talented if you haven't heard 'em before)


----------



## juli95

Viber said:


> Eventually i opted out for 2 of the newer APTX HD KZ cable, *anyone has some experience with those? *the older APTX cable was good to me. Very compact and aside from a fixable volume gain problem,removing the silly metal from the wire and "only" 8H battery i was quite satisfied.



I have the KZ Aptx HD cable (with CSR 8675). I have two complaints about them.
1) They have really loud white noise on my unit (with KZ ZS10 Pro).
2) The cable between ear and module is way too long, which looks really weird. 

My experience with the TRN BT3S was way better. Low (although still audible) white noise level and a way more comfortable design.
The KZ AZ09 is a catastroph imo. Now i'm waiting for my AZ09 Pro to arrive


----------



## Viber

juli95 said:


> I have the KZ Aptx HD cable (with CSR 8675). I have two complaints about them.
> 1) They have really loud white noise on my unit (with KZ ZS10 Pro).
> 2) The cable between ear and module is way too long, which looks really weird.
> 
> ...



Yea, i have that older kz model.  I wear it with cable at the front which keeps the IEM more steady and i tie the extra cable after the remote with some electric tape and of course, i use a shirt clip to reduce cable noise.

I dont really experience white noise.
 I found out that volume should be controlled only from the remote to prevent problems.  

 Lower the volume all the way down with remote and then increase it.  It might solve your problem. 

Please share your experience with az09 pro when they arrive.


----------



## Nimweth (Nov 13, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I actually really wanted to get a pair of BL05S to give the BLON brand a 2nd chance, but just couldn't get past the color.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The nearest colour gemstone to the BL-05s colour is Variscite. Found in the South Western states.


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

r31ya said:


> Ooooh, KZ with balanced neutral tuning...
> I wonder if KZ is mad enough to make KZ ZEX Pro with neutral-ish with mild bass boost SQ




Quite surprise from them knowing that we are all familiar on KZ's tuning.


----------



## juli95

Viber said:


> Lower the volume all the way down with remote and then increase it. It might solve your problem.


That actually brought the level of noise down to nearly TRN BT3S level, thank you. I still think that the TRN are the over all better option. Better design, better buttons, better noise out-of-the box.
But i'm going to stick to the AZ09 (Pro). Simply because they offer more freedom and the automatic recharging in the case. What's frustrating to me about the neckbands is, when they are empty, you have to stop listening to recharge the headphones. That doesn't happen with the TWS with case as they automatically recharge when not in use. That's a really big plus for me personally.


----------



## Viber

juli95 said:


> That actually brought the level of noise down to nearly TRN BT3S level, thank you. I still think that the TRN are the over all better option. Better design, better buttons, better noise out-of-the box.
> But i'm going to stick to the AZ09 (Pro). Simply because they offer more freedom and the automatic recharging in the case. What's frustrating to me about the neckbands is, when they are empty, you have to stop listening to recharge the headphones. That doesn't happen with the TWS with case as they automatically recharge when not in use. That's a really big plus for me personally.



The new kz cable uses a new chip and i know they beat the trn bt3 so i hope for the best.

I also really like the idea of the bt20s pro/az09pro, but i want to make sure they sort out QC issues first.  Seems like TRN didnt handle those throughout 3 generations of bt20.

I also dont really like how big those adapters cases are.  You can fit 2 BT neckbends in your pocket and it would still take much less space.
I imagine that's a problem for people who only store it in their pockets though.


----------



## Viber

i dont know if this pic was posted here already:


----------



## r31ya (Nov 14, 2021)

Viber said:


> i dont know if this pic was posted here already:


We got early leak on thai sites.
Still wondering on the tuning of this ZEX Pro.
I hope it have full bodied musical mids and the rest could go modern kz safe-ish tuning.
---
Not sure what went wrong with TRN. We still keep hearing QC issues from them.
Super budget like QKZ have QC issues, that i can understand. but TRN server higher budget market.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 14, 2021)

Viber said:


> i dont know if this pic was posted here already:


Was, but it's not bad to remember her. The original ZEXs are my favorite IEMs for the price of a delicious dinner.  I hope the new Pokémon fights even better. Although everything is possible with KZ pokemons 😁


----------



## unifutomaki

Viber said:


> i dont know if this pic was posted here already:


Dare I hop back on the KZ magnetostat train with the ZEX Pro? maybe, maybe…


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Viber said:


> i dont know if this pic was posted here already:



Mind, ears, and wallet are all ready. I think it's bad marketing to call them an electrostatic, though.


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> We got early leak on thai sites.
> Still wondering on the tuning of this ZEX Pro.
> I hope it have full bodied musical mids and the rest could go modern kz safe-ish tuning.
> ---
> ...


ZEX pro should be very interesting - starting with which type of BA (or BAs)  KZ would use. Treble ones to compensate for almost missing upper frequencies above 12 kHz in ZEX and NRA and getting back to cheerful V? Or mid-BA to continue the recent trend of un-KZ-ing KZ? 
I will be very curious what and how they can do, but not having high hopes. How I see ZEX snd NRA working reasonably that they new "static" driver does not play a major part just sprinkling on top of good DDs, so implementing BAs there would be intresting to see again.

As for the difference between NRA and ZEZ - that would be accordingly largely their DD difference. I like ZEX more with its softer DD,  but not that they are drastically different as some are trying to imply here - I was fine listening with ZEX left and NRA right earpieces 

As for TRN to mention them the very last time in my posts - their relationship with QC was always very simple:  just "non-existent".
I did hope that they could do OK with simple things and bought few cables and TRN IEM for parts, but just yesterday my TRN silver cable failed (connection at the base of 2.5 TRRS! and from what I coukd disasemble in this hardly repairable connector - so poor soldering job ) - absolutely no more of them for me!

To finish on a positive note - rediscovering synergies - my HiSenior U4, which I perhaps quite underappreciated, just shines with Tempotec E44. Now awaiting E1DA SG3 (and cautiously Zishan Z4) to discover more.

A good source and the synergy matter a lot!
(One can totally rediscover good old friends like Porta Pro with new more powerful sources)


----------



## unifutomaki

PhonoPhi said:


> One can totally rediscover good old friends like Porta Pro with new more powerful sources


This. So much this.


----------



## Viber

What is the strong point of _magnetostatic_ compared to BAs and dynamic drivers? what can it do better?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Nimweth said:


> The nearest colour gemstone to the BL-05s colour is Variscite. Found in the South Western states.


 
I haven't seen this stuff in forever!  I remember "rockhounding" for geodes and nodules in south-central Oklahoma and Texas back country as a kid. It's a very popular hobby in that part of the country for sure. Quite a bit of agate, quartz, and petrified wood to be found for the eagle eyed.


----------



## unifutomaki

Viber said:


> What is the strong point of _magnetostatic_ compared to BAs and dynamic drivers? what can it do better?


Honestly have no clue lol, I don’t even think I really hear it doing anything on the ZEX. It sounds like a dynamic driver IEM to me.


----------



## lushmelody

Viber said:


> What is the strong point of _magnetostatic_ compared to BAs and dynamic drivers? what can it do better?


Speed and treble details I guess. Some say the tonality isn't good though


----------



## lushmelody

unifutomaki said:


> Honestly have no clue lol, I don’t even think I really hear it doing anything on the ZEX. It sounds like a dynamic driver IEM to me.


the BA will definetely change that perception


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Nov 14, 2021)

Viber said:


> What is the strong point of _magnetostatic_ compared to BAs and dynamic drivers? what can it do better?



planar, magnetostatic, and electrostatic drivers work more/less on a similar principal:  there's a flat, film-like speaker element that is driven uniformly across it's surface, unlike a cone speaker that's driven by a coil and has variable tension across its surface from center out to its edge. Because the movement between the electromagnetic signal affects the whole surface of the driver element, there's less distortion.  there's also a big difference in the wavefront of the sound being flat vs. cone-shaped like a regular speaker. this latter shape produces different velocities from different parts of the cone, which has an effect on some of the qualities of playback, particularly in transients. 

how all that works out from stacking the MST on top of a dynamic driver in an IEM is a bit beyond me tbh.

Watch here for more info 

edit: here's another video translated into young people language with soothing background music and canonical time index links. 

 


Note after watching both of these that you might be a bit confused as to what KZ have actually constructed after seeing the tear-down images. I'm a bit confused, too. It's a very cheap and low-buck effort and has nothing to do with EST driver tech found in expensive IEMs.


----------



## unifutomaki (Nov 14, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> planar, magnetostatic, and electrostatic drivers work more/less on a similar principal:  there's a flat, film-like speaker element that is driven uniformly across it's surface, unlike a cone speaker that's driven by a coil and has variable tension across its surface from center out to its edge. Because the movement between the electromagnetic signal affects the whole surface of the driver element, there's less distortion.  there's also a big difference in the wavefront of the sound being flat vs. cone-shaped like a regular speaker. this latter shape produces different velocities from different parts of the cone, which has an effect on some of the qualities of playback, particularly in transients.
> 
> how all that works out from stacking the MST on top of a dynamic driver in an IEM is a bit beyond me tbh.
> 
> ...



Right, those are actual electrostatic drivers, which isn’t what KZ has actually put into the ZEX/NRA  I wonder if someone adventurous would be willing to take apart a ZEX, disconnect the dynamic driver, and then see what sounds the magnetostat actually puts out…


----------



## lushmelody

Why there isn't a reverse manufacturing of ESTs. Maybe next KZ gen comes with them, seeing how fast things move today thanks to Chi-Fi


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

unifutomaki said:


> Honestly have no clue lol, I don’t even think I really hear it doing anything on the ZEX. It sounds like a dynamic driver IEM to me.



At least on the NRA, it's responsible for that Mount Kilimanjaro sized 8 kHz peak  What a great thing for youtube and netflix, though. I still love my NRAs.

This OST blade runner track has a lot of ambient sounds mixed into it. Maybe I just have good ears or something, but I don't hear a lot of difference between Heart Mirror on this track. Sound stage and instrument separation, micro details yadda yadda are pretty close.    






unifutomaki said:


> Right, those are actual electrostatic drivers, which isn’t what KZ has actually put into the ZEX/NRA  I wonder if someone adventurous would be willing to take apart a ZEX, disconnect the dynamic driver, and then see what sounds the magnetostat actually puts out…



saldsald did already in the CCA thread. He took them apart and even graphed the DD and MST element separately.  I don't have the link handy but it's in there.


----------



## lushmelody

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> At least on the NRA, it's responsible for that Mount Kilimanjaro sized 8 kHz peak  What a great thing for youtube and netflix, though. I still love my NRAs.
> 
> This OST blade runner track has a lot of ambient sounds mixed into it. Maybe I just have good ears or something, but I don't hear a lot of difference between Heart Mirror on this track. Sound stage and instrument separation, micro details yadda yadda are pretty close.
> 
> ...



So they are legit ! at least you can trust KZ for driver composition and QC


----------



## PhonoPhi

unifutomaki said:


> Right, those are actual electrostatic drivers, which isn’t what KZ has actually put into the ZEX/NRA  I wonder if someone adventurous would be willing to take apart a ZEX, disconnect the dynamic driver, and then see what sounds the magnetostat actually puts out…


I posted the pictures before from my disassembly of NRA (the same driver).
There are two identical coils (4 Ohm each) connected sequentially in the circuit of 8 Ohm, in between of which the rigid magnetic plate (bottom of the image) is free to vibrate.
Surely fairly unique in implementation (then all magnetic things would vibrate near a coil....), but I am not sure about special advantages: the rigid membrane is limited in the range (5 to 12 kHz) and should have a lot of different odd overtones.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> I posted the pictures before from my disassembly of NRA (the same driver).
> There are two identical coils (4 Ohm each) connected sequentially in the circuit of 8 Ohm, in between of which the rigid magnetic plate (bottom of the image) is free to vibrate.
> Surely fairly unique in implementation (then all magnetic things would vibrate near a coil....), but I am not sure about special advantages: the rigid membrane is limited in the range (5 to 12 kHz) and should have a lot of different odd overtones.



sorry I'd forgotten about your teardown! that's 2 tear downs over in CCA thread. 

It does look to me like an extremely crude device. I'm also not sure what the point is in stacking this with the DD.  I guess the stacked units are firing opposite of one another, and not "through" since the acoustic element is solid?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Viber said:


> i dont know if this pic was posted here already:


Release date by any chance. I'm buying this one in the hope it'll edge out the DQ6. And lets hope its on amazon as well.


----------



## whitete

Viber said:


> So i wanted to buy Bluetooth adapters for my KZs yesterday.
> I was really locked on the TRN BT20s pros which were heavily discounted, but after reading almost full pages of bad reviews they really seemed to have very poor quality control.
> 
> AZ09 seems to be no different.
> ...


AZ09 Pro is good. Check out what @voicemaster says about them. IMO he’s the best authority on BT modules.


----------



## Viber

whitete said:


> AZ09 Pro is good. Check out what @voicemaster says about them. IMO he’s the best authority on BT modules.



Yes, but when we're talking about BT adapters there's a need to watch out QC and durability - that means quantity of reviews as well as quality.

I'll probably get them during Black Friday.   
*
Are there any B-pin AZ09 Pros?  anyone knows if the C-pin one fits the ZSR somehow?*


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Yes, but when we're talking about BT adapters there's a need to watch out QC and durability - that means quantity of reviews as well as quality.
> 
> I'll probably get them during Black Friday.
> 
> *Are there any B-pin AZ09 Pros?  anyone knows if the C-pin one fits the ZSR somehow?*


The B-pin model is out of stock at KZ official store right now. You need to cut the sleeve on the pro to be able to use it with ZSR like I did with mine to fit Moondrop KATO.

*when we're talking about BT adapters there's a need to watch out QC and durability - that means quantity of reviews as well as quality - *it goes with anything really. Even if we have 1000 reviews and all of them are positive, the chance of getting a lemon will still be there.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 14, 2021)

Viber said:


> What is the strong point of _magnetostatic_ compared to BAs and dynamic drivers? what can it do better?


My subjective opinion: A cheap magnetostat sounds much more natural to me than a cheap BA.  Especially without a metallic timbre and a tendency to hiss.  And it also seems to me that in KZ it cooperates with DD more homogeneously than BA.


----------



## Viber

4ceratops said:


> My subjective opinion: A cheap magnetostat sounds much more natural to me than a cheap BA.  Especially without a metallic timbre and a tendency to hiss.  And it also seems to me that in KZ it cooperates with DD more homogeneously than BA.



I've read reviews and it sounds like the ZEX is missing the treble and excitement BA drivers has to offer.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> The B-pin model is out of stock at KZ official store right now. You need to cut the sleeve on the pro to be able to use it with ZSR like I did with mine to fit Moondrop KATO.
> 
> *when we're talking about BT adapters there's a need to watch out QC and durability - that means quantity of reviews as well as quality - *it goes with anything really. Even if we have 1000 reviews and all of them are positive, the chance of getting a lemon will still be there.



"Cut the sleeve" means cutting the plastic around the pins?  if so, how did you do it?

About BT adapters - When they were sold by the dozens, the bad reviews were less prominent, i was under the impression the BT20s pro was solid for the most part.
 As they arrived to more markets and websites, the amount and reasons for bad reviews painted a more complete picture.


----------



## 4ceratops

Viber said:


> I've read reviews and it sounds like the ZEX is missing the treble and excitement BA drivers has to offer.


Personally, I don't feel that way at all.  But as I mentioned, these things are so strongly subjective and influenced by personal preferences that universal truth probably doesn't exist.  I wish you pleasant moments while listening to your favorite music.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> "Cut the sleeve" means cutting the plastic around the pins?  if so, how did you do it?
> 
> About BT adapters - When they were sold by the dozens, the bad reviews were less prominent, i was under the impression the BT20s pro was solid for the most part.
> As they arrived to more markets and websites, the amount and reasons for bad reviews painted a more complete picture.




Cut it like that.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Cut it like that.



Wow, you did a good job.  Doesnt look like hard plastic.  did you use a knife?


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> Wow, you did a good job.  Doesnt look like hard plastic.  did you use a knife?


There is a hard plastic behind the black rubber sleeves. I just used a regular scissor and cut it like I was splicing a wire.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> There is a hard plastic behind the black rubber sleeves. I just used a regular scissor and cut it like I was splicing a wire.



can that wire then be used for C-pin IEMs as well, or will it be weird?


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> can that wire then be used for C-pin IEMs as well, or will it be weird?


Depends on the IEM. On the KATO, the 2pin socket is a little bit recessed into the IEM body so it is not ideal but it works. On my Tripowin Mele, the 2pin socket is flat with the body and the modded AZ09 pro fit the Mele perfectly.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> Depends on the IEM. On the KATO, the 2pin socket is a little bit recessed into the IEM body so it is not ideal but it works. On my Tripowin Mele, the 2pin socket is flat with the body and the modded AZ09 pro fit the Mele perfectly.



I meant will it still fit C-pin connectors like ZAX,ZAS etc?


----------



## voicemaster

It will still fit but it won't have that sleeve to hold the 2pin socket. 

Kinda like that.


----------



## Viber

voicemaster said:


> It will still fit but it won't have that sleeve to hold the 2pin socket.
> 
> Kinda like that.



Thanks!


----------



## r31ya (Nov 14, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> ZEX pro should be very interesting - starting with which type of BA (or BAs)  KZ would use. Treble ones to compensate for almost missing upper frequencies above 12 kHz in ZEX and NRA and getting back to cheerful V? Or mid-BA to continue the recent trend of un-KZ-ing KZ?
> I will be very curious what and how they can do, but not having high hopes. How I see ZEX snd NRA working reasonably that they new "static" driver does not play a major part just sprinkling on top of good DDs, so implementing BAs there would be intresting to see again.
> 
> As for the difference between NRA and ZEZ - that would be accordingly largely their DD difference. I like ZEX more with its softer DD,  but not that they are drastically different as some are trying to imply here - I was fine listening with ZEX left and NRA right earpieces
> ...


Ah Zishan.
If you know your way with soldering and pcb board, Zishan is freakin awesome.
But yeah, unless you know your way with those, its a gamble.
i've read several qc issue with them, but many of my offline friend still recommend them as they can tinker with it if something went wrong
---





All of this for measly $120. Many of my friend including my sound engineer friend loved it. 
But it is a glorified DIY product so proceed with extra caution.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Release date by any chance. I'm buying this one in the hope it'll edge out the DQ6. And lets hope its on amazon as well.



Different, maybe, but not necessarily better. DQ6 really has a lot going for it but I still find the BA hybrids and the MST hybrid of the CCA NRA to be better. I found that the 2 6mm dynamics were mediocre in terms of technicalities. Having said that, the DQ6 has a great tuning OOTB for rock and pop and I found myself forgetting about them and just getting into the groove on longer playlists. Like all the cheaper KZ products, they're a great daily driver when on the go. Sound isolation is enough but not so much that you lose track of your surroundings, which is ill advised in an urban environment IMO.

I tend to EQ treble range up considerably and found that DQ6 were a strident, screechy, and easily pushed to sibilance when adjusting the brilliance end (10 kHz + ) of the frequency response up for jazz and classical.  Chamber music with lots of cello down in the lower registers was superb as I recall, as one might predict for 3x dynamics.

NRA vs. DQ6 was no contest for me. The DD doesn't have a problem pushing 10kHz+ upwards of 6-8 dBs and it doesn't seem to affect the MST unit; if it does I can't tell which is which. The overall sound from NRA is more coherent and has better imaging and instrument separation and stays very smooth. Sound stage is about the same. Nothing wrong with the timbre on either set to my ears, but some have complained that ZEX/NRA has a strange timbre. I think the DD in the NRA is considerably different than the DQ6's XUN driver or the older "dual circuit" magnetic DDs in my ZAX and C12. I think mainly this can be chalked up to the fact that it's tuned closer to neutral and not stomping on the rest of the frequencies.

This last point can be heard with a lot of single DD sets under EQ. There's only so much you can expect from a dynamic driver. Your preference for one part of the curve often means sacrificing some other part, which is why multi-BA drivers and hybrids are so much fun. I can EQ the crap out of ZAX, C12, and BA10 at any part of the range and they just take it and keep giving. Both my NRA and Heart Mirrors  show their limitation under heavy EQ, but since I like bright sets and a more neutral-warm bass curve both are just about perfect and I don't have to adjust either very far to get them to my liking.

to sum up:  if you're able, just get both and keep the one that you like more.


----------



## Tzennn

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> to sum up:  if you're able, just get both and keep the one that you like more.


Or own them both and use GK10


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Tzennn said:


> Or own them both and use GK10



many pairs, no clear favorites. this is the way of the chifi samurai


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Different, maybe, but not necessarily better. DQ6 really has a lot going for it but I still find the BA hybrids and the MST hybrid of the CCA NRA to be better. I found that the 2 6mm dynamics were mediocre in terms of technicalities. Having said that, the DQ6 has a great tuning OOTB for rock and pop and I found myself forgetting about them and just getting into the groove on longer playlists. Like all the cheaper KZ products, they're a great daily driver when on the go. Sound isolation is enough but not so much that you lose track of your surroundings, which is ill advised in an urban environment IMO.
> 
> I tend to EQ treble range up considerably and found that DQ6 were a strident, screechy, and easily pushed to sibilance when adjusting the brilliance end (10 kHz + ) of the frequency response up for jazz and classical.  Chamber music with lots of cello down in the lower registers was superb as I recall, as one might predict for 3x dynamics.
> 
> ...


Hold on a sec. If I've read your post correctly, you rate the NRA above the DQ6. Would you rate the XEM above both the DQ6 and NRA?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Hold on a sec. If I've read your post correctly, you rate the NRA above the DQ6. Would you rate the XEM above both the DQ6 and NRA?



You read correct. but I'm not sure what XEM is? Did you mean ZAX? If so, I think ZAX has better transients and resolution. It's also one of the most transparent headphones I've ever used when coupled to a balanced cable and source. 

But the thing is, you really have to be listening for it. Any of these sets are what I'd rate "very good".  There's better, sure. But you're not really missing out on much imo.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> You read correct. but I'm not sure what XEM is? Did you mean ZAX? If so, I think ZAX has better transients and resolution. It's also one of the most transparent headphones I've ever used when coupled to a balanced cable and source.
> 
> But the thing is, you really have to be listening for it. Any of these sets are what I'd rate "very good".  There's better, sure. But you're not really missing out on much imo.


Sorry, i meant the KZ ZEX.  Do you rate it higher than the NRA?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Nov 15, 2021)

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Sorry, i meant the KZ ZEX.  Do you rate it higher than the NRA?



No idea. ZEX has a warm profile with recessed mids compared to NRA . Not really my bag of chips, so I skipped those. Sort of a "same but different" opinion of the ZEX vs NRA debate.  If you're allergic to treble, get the ZEX.


----------



## Tzennn (Nov 15, 2021)

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Sorry, i meant the KZ ZEX.  Do you rate it higher than the NRA?


Both are same grade to me. ZEX more versatile than NRA because of subbass boost. Because of that ZEX less unique than NRA. I mean if you have more expensive set then NRA is better for ur collection. If not then just buy DQ6 or wait for zex pro
Edit: To make it short: ZEX not worth the money


----------



## InvisibleInk

Tzennn said:


> Both are same grade to me. ZEX more versatile than NRA because of subbass boost. Because of that ZEX less unique than NRA. I mean if you have more expensive set then NRA is better for ur collection. If not then just buy DQ6 or wait for zex pro
> Edit: To make it short: ZEX not worth the money



Well, it was worth it to me. I have the DQ6 and the CSN, the CA16 and the ZAX, and I they they are just different enough, that I'm glad I have them all. Don't know if I'll get the NRA, but I think a lot of my hesitation is due to its name, NRA. In my country those initials are polarizing, and for me, carry a very negative connotation.


----------



## Tzennn

InvisibleInk said:


> Well, it was worth it to me. I have the DQ6 and the CSN, the CA16 and the ZAX, and I they they are just different enough, that I'm glad I have them all. Don't know if I'll get the NRA, but I think a lot of my hesitation is due to its name, NRA. In my country those initials are polarizing, and for me, carry a very negative connotation.


My problem with budget kz right now is the triple peek treble, vocal feel kinda weak and thin. Even more expensive kz like kz zax just about ok, nothing to special about it (my opinion). Right now all the product i bought from kz is just "worth the money" and not anything above or "beyond the offering price".
Just my opinion, don't hit me pls.
My top kz right now is DQ6 (with tuning filter), CCA CSN (budget orchestra set), kz ed9. If you want kz house sound then kz zstx or zsn pro will do the job.


----------



## SybilLance

*Some Resources… *

At last my endgame packages for desktop and portable audio have arrived, waiting to be delivered. Extremely excited!

I’m typing some thoughts and sharing some resources, while listening to Yo-Yo Ma and Kathryn Stott (“Songs from the Arc of Life”, Sony, 2015) through the *KZ AS06*. Sublime.

Just the other day I read a review of a new variant in the product line of an established headphone brand here in head-fi and for the life of me I could barely understand what the reviewer actually meant with the flood of technical phrases intermingled with adjectives intended as subjective metaphors all throughout. Together they’re meaningless, even taking the context of the reviewer’s approach into consideration.

This current preoccupation with “technicalities” has me baffled. A lot of it is nonsense, I believe—and I blame crinacle for this.  Macro- and micro-dynamics? Linearities in the midrange caused by your headphone? Talking about _pinna gain_ _in in-ear headphones_ with a certainty that manufacturers have intentionally tuned their products to compensate for it and then presenting an instrument frequency chart taken off solderdude’s site without attribution to somehow explain the whole thing? Come on. The list is long. What’s really sad is that for any given situation, everything—including crappy boutique products with astronomical prices marketed as serious “high-end”—seems to be justified with the catch-all *YMVV, *based as it is on the premise that everyone’s ears are built differently so that everyone hears differently.

Speaking of solderdude, his site (that he shares with 2 other administrators, Rabbit and Javier) has a fun test you can take to see if you are an objectivist, a subjectivist, or an “in-betweenivist”, with a suggested list of sites suited for your inclinations.

Anyway I thought I’d share some resources that have proven useful to me and that may also be useful for you…

In the transition from 2-channel speaker audio to headphones, I read and tried to understand so many things and I'm the better for it. For one, I have learned the value of objective measurements that function to filter a lot of the snake oil and BS that permeate, and drive so much in, the HiFi and high-end audio business, of which headphones and related gear are but a subset. Ultimately, though, i defer to this truism: "However, powerful measuring techniques should not be allowed to mislead us to forget that acoustical quality is basically defined by subjective sound impressions." (Peter Damaske, Introduction, "Acoustics and Hearing". Springer, 2008)

Yes, much has been written about the objective versus the subjective in audio. The debate, in fact, is still ongoing. None has captured its essentials and boundaries and intersections as accurately and eloquently as Dr. Floyd E. Toole does in the Introduction to his book "Sound Reproduction" (Focal Press, 2008). And Dr. Floyd Toole's contributions to audio and audio research have been enormous.

These 2 books, together with F. Alton Everest's “Master Handbook of Acoustics” (McGraw-Hill) are my humble suggestions for anyone interested in exploring further into audio.

Ah, yes, the _Harman Preferred Target Response Curve_, based on research done by Dr. Sean Olive and his colleagues at Harman International. Sometimes I have this sneaking suspicion that many still don’t have an understanding of what it’s all about. One needs to be an AES member to access all those original research papers in one repository, but fortunately there’s a pdf that serves as a précis for the collective research done by Dr. Olive and his colleagues at Harman International over the years, basically a series of very informative slides that shed light on the nature, aims and objectives of these research, how they’re done, their various hypotheses, abstracts, the results, etc., including how their preferred target response curves for headphones were derived, audio’s “circle of confusion”, et al., that could have been prepared by Dr. Olive himself and that’s intended for the public domain:

https://www.listeninc.com/wp/media/Perception_and_-Measurement_of_Headphones_Sean_Olive.pdf

I’ve posted this link in this very same thread before but it’s been buried under hundreds of posts so I’m simply copying and pasting the pertinent paragraph and the link here. Mind this was posted after Harman was acquired by Samsung and now it seems the corporate giant is methodically scrubbing all traces of research that it deems proprietary so it’s becoming increasingly difficult to look for an article or brochure about Harman’s audio research. It’s fortunate this pdf still is out there and the link is still active. It might not be for long. It’s respectfully recommended. Informative as mentioned—you could imagine Dr. Olive presenting the slides—and easy to understand, too.

For a time my husband and I and our circle of music hobbyists relied on the Philips Golden Ears online challenge to test our ears and our listening capabilities. It used to be found here:

http://www.audiopolitan.com/blog/philips-golden-ears-challenge-how-good-are-your-listening-skills/

Unfortunately it’s been discontinued (the link found therein is dead). Not to worry because there’s the next best thing, Harman’s _How To Listen _Program, and it’s still around and it’s FREE. It’s still in beta format however, having been apparently abandoned by Harman, but we’re still using it. My senior-citizen ears and brain can’t get past level 9, though; it gets really progressively difficult. Dr. Olive got to level 15! I suppose Harman’s bunch of trained listeners used in their studies got to at least this level. You can read all about it, and find the download links to the program and to its manual for you to try, here:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Harman-quotHow-to-Listenquot-Software-FREE-beta-m3624003.aspx

In a related vein Harman also has this page, which contains a wealth of information on _listening_:

https://artoflistening.harman.com/

There’s also a YouTube link therein to their documentary entitled _The Art of Listening_, the direct link of which is:



This at least should be required for those about to dip their toes into the world of headphones. J

Lastly as regards discussion on Harman’s Art of Listening software and what it entails and some workarounds as to certain problems that might present themselves during its use (it still is in beta stage after all—though personally I haven’t encountered any), this audiosciencereview (ASR) thread may come in handy:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/harmans-how-to-listen-software.8262/

Some dudes found out that if you don’t _feel_ the music samples chosen by Harman (I think they’re the same samples used in their studies to arrive at their Preferred Target Response Curve), you could add your own personal music files and use them. How? It’s all there in the abovementioned ASR thread.

I'm glad that people deep into this hobby are also learning to recognize the merits of objective measurements. Those who have managed to carve their space in this milieu are slowly yet definitely influencing manufacturers to step up and back their claims with good and competent engineering and reproducible specification metrics. Case in point, ASR and Schiit. Members in head-fi who have the means now have their own industry-standard measuring equipment and analyzers to independently help bring focus on the science behind this hobby, and the questionable representations of some in the industry. There's GoldenOne on MQA's claims and benefits, for example, building on what Archimago had done. Chi-Fi companies (the term is used to refer to Chinese manufacturers of hifi audio equipment and related products, without any pejorative connotation or hint thereof) are also leading the way. Topping and SMSL both have shown that TOTL best-of-the-best-measuring DACs and headphone amplifiers need not cost an arm and a leg or a liver and a kidney. In headphones, DCA (for over-ears) and Moondrop (for in-ears) have shown that investment in said measuring equipment and continuous, iterative R & D lead to brilliant results. I won't mention double-blind tests—oops!

This is a great time for extremely affordable personal audio and music enjoyment—Viva Knowledge Zenith!


----------



## mndless

SybilLance said:


> *Some Resources… *
> 
> At last my endgame packages for desktop and portable audio have arrived, waiting to be delivered. Extremely excited!
> 
> ...



I like to use certain instrumentation to describe whether I can or can't make them out properly on various sets and whether or not they sound like they should. As for macro and microdynamics, unless you've noticed something awry with the sound and can point out examples of specific sounds that you're having problems with, then it's really not useful to bring them up. From what I understand, macrodynamics largely deals with the overall tuning of the set and microdynamics refers to technicalities and detail retrieval (as well as attack speed, decay, and how the drivers handle the lead-in and cessation of sounds.

But in the end, the most important thing is whether or not the listener enjoys the set and what about the set they enjoy. Graphs do help, though.


----------



## r31ya

Tzennn said:


> My problem with budget kz right now is the triple peek treble, vocal feel kinda weak and thin. Even more expensive kz like kz zax just about ok, nothing to special about it (my opinion). Right now all the product i bought from kz is just "worth the money" and not anything above or "beyond the offering price".
> Just my opinion, don't hit me pls.
> My top kz right now is DQ6 (with tuning filter), CCA CSN (budget orchestra set), kz ed9. If you want kz house sound then kz zstx or zsn pro will do the job.


This vocal aspect is what makes me love my Tanya. Full bodied musical vocals. Something kz and tfz king pro lack of
Tough later i yearn clarity that Tanya lack of and takes Aria. But even so, personally Tanya still better than Aria in some aspect in lower male vocals. Chunkier...


----------



## InvisibleInk

SybilLance said:


> *Some Resources… *
> 
> At last my endgame packages for desktop and portable audio have arrived, waiting to be delivered. Extremely excited!
> 
> ...



What’s your endgame stuff that’s just arrived?


----------



## lushmelody

r31ya said:


> This vocal aspect is what makes me love my Tanya. Full bodied musical vocals. Something kz and tfz king pro lack of
> Tough later i yearn clarity that Tanya lack of and takes Aria. But even so, personally Tanya still better than Aria in some aspect in lower male vocals. Chunkier...


Midcentric tunings are my favorites too. Current pop punk and rock is very gender mixed, just wishing an IEM excellent doing all vocals 🥺✨


----------



## r31ya

lushmelody said:


> Midcentric tunings are my favorites too. Current pop punk and rock is very gender mixed, just wishing an IEM excellent doing all vocals 🥺✨


Aria do male and female part pretty nicely, but some of my music have low growl on it which stock Aria is a bit lacking compared to tanya chunky mid.



after removing the filter tip, changing to final e, and using faaeal hibiscus, it turns a bit nicer.


----------



## evasb

the new KZ EDC compared to Tanchjim Tanya: https://pw.squig.link/?share=Etymotic_Target,KZ_EDC,Tanchjim_Tanyav2


----------



## r31ya

evasb said:


> the new KZ EDC compared to Tanchjim Tanya: https://pw.squig.link/?share=Etymotic_Target,KZ_EDC,Tanchjim_Tanyav2


what the, KZ with less bass than Tanya and more mids than Tanya. Its flatter. What is this thing.
treble spikes not withholding.


----------



## lushmelody

Less treble than ZEX which is already considered smooth


----------



## lushmelody

It seems KZ is investing in tuning variety (finally, I guess). Its the budget segment QC we trust more


----------



## voicemaster

So I am using my KATO with AZ09 pro at Philz Coffee and I experienced no drop outs. The connection to my Surface Book is fast and solid. I really like this AZ09 pro and recommend it to people who are looking to experience wireless connection with their IEMs (2pins IEMs only sadly).


----------



## r31ya

lushmelody said:


> It seems KZ is investing in tuning variety (finally, I guess). Its the budget segment QC we trust more


Don't worry kz, do market test of your variety tuning with sub $30 iems, we take it in strides


----------



## imparanoic

Just wondering, how good is the KZ AST, is a super giant killer? using at the moment astell and kern michelle limited and sony nw-zx300, also using KZ ZSN pro for playstation 4 pro gaming


----------



## voicemaster

imparanoic said:


> *Just wondering, how good is the KZ AST, is a super giant killer?* using at the moment astell and kern michelle limited and sony nw-zx300, also using KZ ZSN pro for playstation 4 pro gaming


Nope.


----------



## MacAttack7

imparanoic said:


> Just wondering, how good is the KZ AST, is a super giant killer? using at the moment astell and kern michelle limited and sony nw-zx300, also using KZ ZSN pro for playstation 4 pro gaming


I never heard a "giant-level" IEM, so no idea. But I have a few IEM's and headphones, and I'd be fine if the AST was all I owned. Part of that is though it because it fits perfectly and has great isolation which are both important to me. I also enjoy the sound signature.


----------



## Tzennn

imparanoic said:


> Just wondering, how good is the KZ AST, is a super giant killer? using at the moment astell and kern michelle limited and sony nw-zx300, also using KZ ZSN pro for playstation 4 pro gaming


How about gs audio. Heard good thing about them. There's also a thread for it


----------



## InvisibleInk

Tzennn said:


> How about gs audio. Heard good thing about them. There's also a thread for it


The all balanced armature sets I think would be better than the hybrid GS Audios. I have a hybrid 1DD and 2BA, and the dynamic driver is a downright flaccid performer.

The AST sounds great when EQ-ed. It's kinda too bassy and dark with no EQ. For even better isolation you can fit it with Etymotic dual flange ear tips, which fit nicely because the nozzle is narrow.


----------



## MacAttack7

InvisibleInk said:


> The all balanced armature sets I think would be better than the hybrid GS Audios. I have a hybrid 1DD and 2BA, and the dynamic driver is a downright flaccid performer.
> 
> The AST sounds great when EQ-ed. It's kinda too bassy and dark with no EQ. For even better isolation you can fit it with Etymotic dual flange ear tips, which fit nicely because the nozzle is narrow.


The top of the AST (and the ASX) clips into my ear just right, and it gets held in place no matter what.
Do you think the dual flange tips change the fit? I like max isolation.


----------



## MacAttack7

SybilLance said:


> *Some Resources… *
> 
> At last my endgame packages for desktop and portable audio have arrived, waiting to be delivered. Extremely excited!
> 
> ...



https://seanolive.blogspot.com/
" I referred to the slide above that shows the predicted sound quality for 61 different models of in-ear headphones based on their measured frequency response.  The correlation between price and sound quality is close to zero and, slightly negative: r = -.16 (i.e. spending more money gets you slightly worse sound on average).

So, if you think spending a lot of money on in-ear headphones guarantees you will get excellent sound, you may be sadly disappointed. One of the most expensive IE models ($3000) in the above graph, had a underwhelming predicted score of 20-25% depending what EQ setting you chose. *The highest scoring headphone was a $100 model* that we equalized to hit the Harman target response, which our research has shown to be preferred by the majority of listeners."


----------



## InvisibleInk

MacAttack7 said:


> The top of the AST (and the ASX) clips into my ear just right, and it gets held in place no matter what.
> Do you think the dual flange tips change the fit? I like max isolation.


They might pull the AST in closer do to a perfect latch and seal. The large Ety dual flanges work well for me, improving isolation to dead silence, but there are no guarantees in this hobby.


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 17, 2021)

Oops, sorry.


----------



## SybilLance

InvisibleInk said:


> What’s your endgame stuff that’s just arrived?


Topping D90SE, A90, Pre90, Ext90; DCA Stealth; Audeze LCD-5; assorted cables and interconnects; and on impulse a pair of Genelec G Five active speakers.

Well, they haven't been delivered yet. They're still at the carrier warehouse. They're supposed to arrive together Nov 3rd but the speakers got delayed.



MacAttack7 said:


> https://seanolive.blogspot.com/
> " I referred to the slide above that shows the predicted sound quality for 61 different models of in-ear headphones based on their measured frequency response.  The correlation between price and sound quality is close to zero and, slightly negative: r = -.16 (i.e. spending more money gets you slightly worse sound on average).
> 
> So, if you think spending a lot of money on in-ear headphones guarantees you will get excellent sound, you may be sadly disappointed. One of the most expensive IE models ($3000) in the above graph, had a underwhelming predicted score of 20-25% depending what EQ setting you chose. *The highest scoring headphone was a $100 model* that we equalized to hit the Harman target response, which our research has shown to be preferred by the majority of listeners."


I don't need, and want, in-ears in the price range of the Stealth and the LCD. The most expensive one I'll ever have would be the Moondrop KATO, and its VDFS tuning closely hews to the first (or second?—i forget) Harman target preference curve for in-ears. I would always crave and prefer that phantom center, and in-ears couldn't provide that. They're great for moving about, though, and I'm satisfied and content with my beloved KZs and CCAs. Hence my Shopee cart already has the KZ AZ09 Pro C-Pin, which waits for its B-Pin sibling.


My library cum study has been remodeled into a listening room, with acoustic panels, carpets and drapes for the windows, for the sweet spot, by ear with the help of my old Wharfedales and some sound meters. The Genelec's room compensation switches will take care of whatever deficiencies I missed, I believe. Sold my desk and the study table and their chairs and got rid of the side table where the printer used to be and recovered a lot of space. My son had already finished setting up our NAS for our digital music files for access anywhere in the house. Shelves that used to be crammed with law books now hold my old vinyl records, my father's 78 rpm collection, my CDs and SACDs. Behind a glass partition will be my modest yet proud KZ/CCA collection. ☺️

I'm ready to fully retire.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

imparanoic said:


> Just wondering, how good is the KZ AST, is a super giant killer? using at the moment astell and kern michelle limited and sony nw-zx300, also using KZ ZSN pro for playstation 4 pro gaming


It can be a giant killer if you change tips and use EQ.

My EQ setting looks like this:

40Hz -3.5dB Q1.50
1900Hz -4.0dB Q1.10
3400Hz 6.0dB Q1.70
5200Hz -8.0dB Q2.00
7500Hz +3.0dB Q1.50
11000Hz +3.0dB Q1.50


----------



## nihil23

ExTubeGamer said:


> It can be a giant killer if you change tips and use EQ.
> 
> My EQ setting looks like this:
> 
> ...


Which tips do you use with ast? 
I mostly use it with spinfit 360, which quite short and fits ast and my ears quite well


----------



## 4ceratops

ExTubeGamer said:


> It can be a giant killer if you change tips and use EQ.
> 
> My EQ setting looks like this:
> 
> ...


The need for such an extreme modification is a testament to how crappy their tuning from the manufacturer is.  Personally, I am not able to achieve usable debugging with them, neither using EQ nor MSEB.  They are a huge disappointment to me.


----------



## saldsald

4ceratops said:


> The need for such an extreme modification is a testament to how crappy their tuning from the manufacturer is.  Personally, I am not able to achieve usable debugging with them, neither using EQ nor MSEB.  They are a huge disappointment to me.


I still find the stock tuning very fine. It sounds bad with my M11 Pro, mediocre with ZX 507 but really good with Shanling M8. I use CP100/CP100+ tips with it.


----------



## nihil23

4ceratops said:


> The need for such an extreme modification is a testament to how crappy their tuning from the manufacturer is.  Personally, I am not able to achieve usable debugging with them, neither using EQ nor MSEB.  They are a huge disappointment to me.


Why do you keep sharing your frustration and proving that these are bad headphones, even if someone likes them. What is the point of imposing your opinion and rushing around with it on the topic? 
The question is rhetorical


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 17, 2021)

nihil23 said:


> Why do you keep sharing your frustration and proving that these are bad headphones, even if someone likes them. What is the point of imposing your opinion and rushing around with it on the topic?
> The question is rhetorical


For a simple reason: It is this thread that is dedicated to KZ IEMs and I only present my subjective opinion on a specific model, just as you do.  Coincidentally, my opinion is negative and yours is positive.  Life is varied and I'm not frustrated with AST, I just prefer to reach for other of my headphones that suit me. Have a nice day.


----------



## nihil23

4ceratops said:


> For a simple reason: It is this thread that is dedicated to KZ IEMs and I only present my subjective opinion on a specific model, just as you do.  Coincidentally, my opinion is negative and yours is positive.  Life is varied and I'm not frustrated with AST, I just prefer to reach for other of my headphones that suit me. Have a nice day.


Sorry if I get you wrong, have a nice day, pal


----------



## ExTubeGamer

nihil23 said:


> Which tips do you use with ast?
> I mostly use it with spinfit 360, which quite short and fits ast and my ears quite well


Xcessor medium size tips and T2 foam tips work for me.


----------



## lushmelody (Nov 17, 2021)

Nice! AST owners share your PEQ 

Preamp: -8db
Low Shelf (Q/Slope) 120hz -5db Q: 1
Peak 3500hz +2db Q: 2
High Shelf (Q/Slope) 8000hz +5db Q: 2

Eartips rn are BGVP E01 (while waiting Whizzer SS20 to arrive)


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Does anybody listen a KZ EDS ?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

r31ya said:


> Aria do male and female part pretty nicely, but some of my music have low growl on it which stock Aria is a bit lacking compared to tanya chunky mid.
> 
> 
> 
> after removing the filter tip, changing to final e, and using faaeal hibiscus, it turns a bit nicer.



That video cracks me up.


----------



## Kumonomukou

Viber said:


> So i wanted to buy Bluetooth adapters for my KZs yesterday.
> I was really locked on the TRN BT20s pros which were heavily discounted, but after reading almost full pages of bad reviews they really seemed to have very poor quality control.
> 
> AZ09 seems to be no different.
> ...



I'd personally go for the TRN BT20s Pro. I ordered a second pair few days ago because the price was good for only $20-ish bucks. I didn't have problems with the first pair which purchased a year ago. No issue with connection, sound quality, battery etc. In fact I'd pick these over newly released BT30. Extra 90min~2hrs of battery over updated chip + amp. The only knock will be the lack of structure on the hooks, which consequently making them less suitable for active usage.

I have strong reservations towards KZ's Bluetooth products because past issues with battery life and notification sound. Things might change later on, but I'm still in the 'stung' period.



voicemaster said:


> Cut it like that.



That's a very nice job! I'm planning on doing just that on a pair of QKZ-X picked up for dirt cheap. I was thinking of hobby knife, but scissors sound good to me!


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 17, 2021)

Kumonomukou said:


> I'd personally go for the TRN BT20s Pro. I ordered a second pair few days ago because the price was good for only $20-ish bucks. I didn't have problems with the first pair which purchased a year ago. No issue with connection, sound quality, battery etc. In fact I'd pick these over newly released BT30. Extra 90min~2hrs of battery over updated chip + amp. The only knock will be the lack of structure on the hooks, which consequently making them less suitable for active usage.
> 
> I have strong reservations towards KZ's Bluetooth products because past issues with battery life and notification sound. Things might change later on, but I'm still in the 'stung' period.
> 
> ...


I was skeptical against KZ bluetooth too, but the AZ09 pro proof me wrong. It has exceeded my expectations and would recommend it over BT20s pro. The only thing missing is swappable pin like the BT20s pro.
I am getting another AZ09 pro when the C-pin available.


----------



## voicemaster

So my TRN BT30 just arrived today. They are pretty much identical to the BT20s pro appearance wise. The BT30 is a little bit louder than the BT20s pro, but not by much. The AZ09 pro is still the strongest in term of raw volume. I paired it up with my 7Hz Timeless and it does a better job than the BT20s pro. The bass is still not a solid as using my desktop amp.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> I was skeptical against KZ bluetooth too, but the AZ09 pro proof me wrong. It has exceeded my expectations and would recommend it over BT20s pro. The only thing missing is swappable pin like the BT20s pro.
> I am getting another AZ09 pro when the C-pin available.


These are tempting for sure. I have both mmcx and 2 pin versions of the Fiio Utws3 and really do not at all need the az09 pro but like all of us there is a constant curiosity. It's crazy how KZ can offer so much with the price being asked. What iems have you been driving with these? Just curious if the az09 pro are only meant for the more sensitive iems.


----------



## voicemaster

Ceeluh7 said:


> These are tempting for sure. I have both mmcx and 2 pin versions of the Fiio Utws3 and really do not at all need the az09 pro but like all of us there is a constant curiosity. It's crazy how KZ can offer so much with the price being asked. What iems have you been driving with these? Just curious if the az09 pro are only meant for the more sensitive iems.


Moondrop Kato and Tripowin Mele.


----------



## cong218

voicemaster said:


> I was skeptical against KZ bluetooth too, but the AZ09 pro proof me wrong. It has exceeded my expectations and would recommend it over BT20s pro. The only thing missing is swappable pin like the BT20s pro.
> I am getting another AZ09 pro when the C-pin available.


yep,I have a AZ09 Pro,use them few days,i think AZ09 Pro sound quality is good,This maybe due to their upgraded Qualcomm chip.


----------



## whitete

voicemaster said:


> I was skeptical against KZ bluetooth too, but the AZ09 pro proof me wrong. It has exceeded my expectations and would recommend it over BT20s pro. The only thing missing is swappable pin like the BT20s pro.
> I am getting another AZ09 pro when the C-pin available.


Absolutely agree!  AZ09 Pro are my favs now. I ordered 3 more pair during the 11/11 AE sale! 😳


----------



## SybilLance

The Moondrop KATO is almost here, hopefully with the KZ AZ09 Pro following soon. Got it for ~$19. Every time voicemaster mentions his, I get bothered so I went ahead with the C-Pin last night. I have given glowing feedbacks for my original AZ09, which I've been using everyday with the ZAX for several months now without any issues whatsoever, so the Pro is most welcome. I'll try to convince my husband to adapt it to the KATO, although I know his response will definitely be this: "Why on earth would you do that?" 🙄


----------



## Aevum

mine has been delivered and is waiting for me at home, the AZ09 has been good so far, only a few connection drops, i wonder if it will improve with a QC3040 chip.


----------



## lushmelody

I might pass current KZ's single DDs for Nicehck DB1.... A $15 bright IEM that graphes similar to NF Audio's $100+ IEM. Maybe an even more cost effective Heart Mirror?


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> I was skeptical against KZ bluetooth too, but the AZ09 pro proof me wrong. It has exceeded my expectations and would recommend it over BT20s pro. The only thing missing is swappable pin like the BT20s pro.
> I am getting another AZ09 pro when the C-pin available.



how's the noise floor level between the AZ09 pro to the BT20S pro? also, if I'm not mistaken you got the B pin version?


----------



## voicemaster

chinmie said:


> how's the noise floor level between the AZ09 pro to the BT20S pro? also, if I'm not mistaken you got the B pin version?


Supposedly. Very very faint noise floor, but I spend most of my time pairing it with the KATO. Same with BT30, very low floor noise with the Timeless.


----------



## MacAttack7

Anyone know of some tips that are the exact same length of the wimpy white ones that KZ is using now for the AST, ASX, ASF, etc?
I tried the wireless spinfits which look the same, but once you put them on the stem isn't quite identical and they end up being a bit taller...just enough to throw off my fit.


----------



## voicemaster

Aevum said:


> mine has been delivered and is waiting for me at home, the AZ09 has been good so far, only a few connection drops, i wonder if it will improve with a QC3040 chip.


It will!


----------



## XerusKun (Nov 18, 2021)

Hello I'm new in this thread. Just want to ask, I've just seen the newly release KZ T10 headphones circulating in Facebook and I'm mildly intrested, is there any review thread for the T10 that I can look and read?


----------



## RCracer777 (Nov 18, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> Anyone know of some tips that are the exact same length of the wimpy white ones that KZ is using now for the AST, ASX, ASF, etc?
> I tried the wireless spinfits which look the same, but once you put them on the stem isn't quite identical and they end up being a bit taller...just enough to throw off my fit.


They are using TWS type tips so they have a shorter stem, so any TWS tip should give a similar fit.

Personally on my DQ6 I use AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal for TWS tips, same size as the KZ tips and infinitely better quality. But you have to account for a difference in size as AZLA tips are larger on average (KZ S=SS, KZ M=MS, KZ L=ML) but this does mean you can go with intermediate sizes if you need.
That said, these are not cheap at €22,- for two pairs, but should last for a good while. Sets with 3 different sizes like S, MS, M are also available for around €30,-


----------



## r31ya

voicemaster said:


> It will!


Hows the gamemode soundquality compared to its power mode?
Gamemode usually lower the bit rate quite a bit, does gamemode degrade the sq much?
Seems to be interesting experiment


----------



## voicemaster (Nov 18, 2021)

r31ya said:


> Hows the gamemode soundquality compared to its power mode?
> Gamemode usually lower the bit rate quite a bit, does gamemode degrade the sq much?
> Seems to be interesting experiment


Well you don't want to use "gaming" mode for listening to music, the "standard" mode will be better. Gaming mode will decrease the bitrate and also range. 
Power mode on the other hand is useful if you want more volume from your IEMs. I rarely use power mode for my KATO and use gaming mode when I play dota2. What I noticed, bluetooth 5.2 has pretty low latency already and the gaming mode make it like 30ms latency iirc. It actually perfect because my ping is around 30-40ms when playing dota2.


----------



## r31ya

voicemaster said:


> Well you don't want to use "gaming" mode for listening to music, the "standard" mode will be better. "Power" mode on the other hand is useful if you want more volume from your IEMs. I rarely use "power" mode for my KATO and use "gaming" mode when I play dota2.


Does the powermode change the sq or its just more volume?


----------



## voicemaster

r31ya said:


> Does the powermode change the sq or its just more volume?


It says more bass on the ads, but I just hear more volume. I would rather have more volume than more bass.


----------



## SybilLance

RCracer777 said:


> They are using TWS type tips so they have a shorter stem, so any TWS tip should give a similar fit.
> 
> Personally on my DQ6 I use AZLA SednaEarfit Crystal for TWS tips, same size as the KZ tips and infinitely better quality. But you have to account for a difference in size as AZLA tips are larger on average (KZ S=SS, KZ M=MS, KZ L=ML) but this does mean you can go with intermediate sizes if you need.
> That said, these are not cheap at €22,- for two pairs, but should last for a good while. Sets with 3 different sizes like S, MS, M are also available for around €30,-


How is the comfort factor on the Crystal? Are they stiffer or softer than generic soft silicone TWS eartips or the tube-like soft silicone stock eartips that come with the CCA NRA and latter KZ models?

Have you also tried the AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC? If so, which is better in terms of wearing comfort—the Crystal or the XELASTEC? The latter were my original choice for replacement eartips for the Moondrop Aria but then the BGVP Type W01 eartips that I ordered at an earlier time arrived and they were near-perfect for me, so I didn't bother with the AZLAs anymore. Been using the BGVPs on the Aria and the KZ ZAX (connected to the KZ AZ09) ever since. I'm still curious, though.


----------



## chinmie

ordered myself an AZ09 Pro for curiosity sake, just found one in Lazada because i couldn't stand the really long wait of shipment from Aliexpress these days. The seller says that it's the C type unit, but i guess i'll find it out when i get it


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 18, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> It says more bass on the ads, but I just hear more volume. I would rather have more volume than more bass.


I agree.

But, you know... sometimes...when you just feel like letting go and don't have a care in the world... it's not one or the other but both. That bass boost switch on the Topping NX4 and that Neutron Player profile with the low shelf filter optimized for sub-bass are my guilty pleasures.


----------



## voicemaster

SybilLance said:


> I agree.
> 
> But, you know... sometimes...when you just feel like letting go and don't have a care in the world... it's not one or the other but both. That bass boost switch on the Topping NX4 and that Neutron Player profile with the low shelf filter optimized for sub-bass are my guilty pleasures.


I prefer to EQ from the source (phone, computer, etc) because most of "bass boost" preset usually sucks.


----------



## cong218

I heard that KZ is about to launch ZEX PRO.


----------



## Aevum

my first impresion of the AZ09 pro...

im not sure, connection is good, but i think they make the KZ ZEX sound a bit bloated.


----------



## evasb

KZ T10 looks pretty nice. Looks like they have a volume wheel, simple buttons and a P2 input. I'm not a headphone person but could be good to people that like headphones.


----------



## r31ya

I sincerely hope this use qc or equal chip like recent kz tws.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 19, 2021)

evasb said:


> KZ T10 looks pretty nice. Looks like they have a volume wheel, simple buttons and a P2 input. I'm not a headphone person but could be good to people that like headphones.


They are pre-sealed for € 97 (Ali to EU) without zero information about chip, codecs and battery life. ANC is on weaker side, only -25db. I admit that the design is really nice, so without basic information, buying would be an unnecessary risk.


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 19, 2021)

XerusKun said:


> Hello I'm new in this thread. Just want to ask, I've just seen the newly release KZ T10 headphones circulating in Facebook and I'm mildly intrested, is there any review thread for the T10 that I can look and read?


Hi! Welcome to the KZ Impressions thread!

Apparently, it's just been launched and there seems to be no user impressions yet. But when they do start to surface, you'll definitely find them here. 🙂

There's this YouTube channel that's been giving updates:




evasb said:


> KZ T10 looks pretty nice. Looks like they have a volume wheel, simple buttons and a P2 input. I'm not a headphone person but could be good to people that like headphones.



Looks nice and  clean. Hopefully those earpads are replaceable. Now being sold at Shopee Philippines for ₱4,999  (~$98.74). This coming 12:12 sale, with the special Electronics 8% discount voucher capped at $10, store vouchers, free shipping voucher and coins, I could probably knock that down to <$85 US.

But... the HiFiMAN HE-400se original edition is also sold at Shopee for the same amount, ₱4,999.00. The international edition with Stealth Magnets sells for ₱6,699.00 (~$132.31).

Now if I have $100 which do you think I'll buy ? 🤔😁


----------



## SybilLance (Nov 19, 2021)

voicemaster said:


> I prefer to EQ from the source (phone, computer, etc) because most of "bass boost" preset usually sucks.


Indeed, it's advisable to EQ at source. However I'm so glad the NX4's bass boost doesn't "suck".

The NX4 is among the very first (2017) affordable Chinese portable DAC/Amps with Impressively low noise and distortion, independently measured and verified. Perhaps because of this it's bass boost, at low to moderately loud volumes (what I could tolerate) and at low gain, is refined and remains tasteful.

Its published graph (low and high gain) has been verified. It starts at 1KHz and rises very gently to 1dB at 300 Hz, reaches 2dB at 200 Hz, 3dB at 150 Hz, 4dB at 80 Hz, 5 at 40 and finally ~5.3 dB at 20 Hz. Its FR droops ~0.3 dB at 20Hz.  It's basically a nicely implemented 5 dB gently sloping low shelf filter for headphones with rolled-off bass.

Only at high volume (pot beyond 12:00 o'clock) at high gain will you encounter muddiness and only at ear-splitting levels will there be distortion.

Often I listen to high-quality high dynamic range recordings with the NX4 as amp, with its bass boost enabled, through the HiFiMAN HE-400i and this is my expression: 😊

Guilty pleasure.


----------



## RCracer777

SybilLance said:


> How is the comfort factor on the Crystal? Are they stiffer or softer than generic soft silicone TWS eartips or the tube-like soft silicone stock eartips that come with the CCA NRA and latter KZ models?
> 
> Have you also tried the AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC? If so, which is better in terms of wearing comfort—the Crystal or the XELASTEC? The latter were my original choice for replacement eartips for the Moondrop Aria but then the BGVP Type W01 eartips that I ordered at an earlier time arrived and they were near-perfect for me, so I didn't bother with the AZLAs anymore. Been using the BGVPs on the Aria and the KZ ZAX (connected to the KZ AZ09) ever since. I'm still curious, though.


I do have XELASTEC tips as well but I definitely prefer the Crystal to them. 
Due to the fact that the XELASTEC are made from TPE, they have the benefit is that they are really supple (not KZ DQ6/ASF/ASX flimsy) and make bullet style IEMs stay in your ears better due to being a little sticky/grippy, the downside is they are harder to insert deeper into your ear if you prefer that and collect dust like crazy. They get dirty fast, it's just the nature of the material.

The Crystal is basically a slightly stiffer less sticky/grippy version of the XELASTEC. It doesn't collect dust as much and still has most of the benefits of the XELASTEC. It also has a lesser impact on the sound but that might be because I only have the TWS version of it which doesn't extend past the nozzle of the IEM.

Compared to the BGVP W01 both are more supple and of higher quality, but more sticky/grippy. The bore of the tips is narrower but still fairly wide. Due to the bigger bore of the W01 it improves the treble response while the XELASTEC and by extension the Crystal make improvements across the board as most AZLA's do. But this does include reducing the bass quantity but tightening it up and improving the texture a bit.

Fun fact, I used to have the XELASTEC on my Meze 12 Classic V2 until I tried my W01 on them. Never looked back, although I do occasionally swap them out for the stock tips.


----------



## r31ya

SybilLance said:


> Hi! Welcome to the KZ Impressions thread!
> 
> Apparently, it's just been launched and there seems to be no user impressions yet. But when they do start to surface, you'll definitely find them here. 🙂
> 
> ...




If you have dac/amp, get hifiman. Personally, i would be genuinely surprised if kz headphone manage even come close to mini sundara.


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> Ah Zishan.
> If you know your way with soldering and pcb board, Zishan is freakin awesome.
> But yeah, unless you know your way with those, its a gamble.
> i've read several qc issue with them, but many of my offline friend still recommend them as they can tinker with it if something went wrong
> ...


I got Z4 know and it exceeded all my expectations: starting working out of box well in all respects (it has its roughness for sure), but the modding is actually hard to do on this model.

Now in a spirit of some of the HeadFi-iers, I do unabashedly want to share my impressions that Z4 is absolutely the best player out there that I experienced recently 
Here I use the quote from one of the HeadFi impressions (let the person remain semi-anonymous):
"Without say name, far better than dongle at same prices and even better than some dap around 500/600$"
I am sure that there are some dongles at $500 out there that are worse than Z4, and then after all it is my subjective opinion, I hear it this way, you know 

Anyhow, most importantly - back to KZ, the Z4 signature is on a brutal ESS side, so with my beloved modified ASX - two brutalities amplify and banshees start to appear even in classical music recordings (I did dig for treble-rich IEMs previously due to my source), still can appreciate Z4+ASX but largely for informative comparative testing 

But then the treble-shy AST really shine with Z4 - amazing synergy - the treble is recovered and the brutal power of Z4 with slightly forwarded mids does work nicely for the AST BA array, and the bass is less prominent (actually I do miss bass compared to ASX).

With my previous main source  (Pioneer X30, which think is great on its own merits), AST were not eventful. AST paired noticeably better with BTR5, especially in a DAC mode.

But then Z4 with AST are great (I am listening to Mahler's 1-st Symphony, the recording with a low dynamic range, soft, quiet, and it works well - I was concerned with Z4 background noise, it is not black but then that is the nature of amplifiers used, not Zishan implementation, I beleive).

Just wow!


----------



## SybilLance

RCracer777 said:


> I do have XELASTEC tips as well but I definitely prefer the Crystal to them.
> Due to the fact that the XELASTEC are made from TPE, they have the benefit is that they are really supple (not KZ DQ6/ASF/ASX flimsy) and make bullet style IEMs stay in your ears better due to being a little sticky/grippy, the downside is they are harder to insert deeper into your ear if you prefer that and collect dust like crazy. They get dirty fast, it's just the nature of the material.
> 
> The Crystal is basically a slightly stiffer less sticky/grippy version of the XELASTEC. It doesn't collect dust as much and still has most of the benefits of the XELASTEC. It also has a lesser impact on the sound but that might be because I only have the TWS version of it which doesn't extend past the nozzle of the IEM.
> ...


Sometimes when you ask the right person not only do you get direct, responsive answers but complete, detailed ones. Muchas Gracias!

Methinks I'll try out the ML size of both AZLAs mentioned.


r31ya said:


> If you have dac/amp, get hifiman. Personally, i would be genuinely surprised if kz headphone manage even come close to mini sundara.


👍🏼👌🏼


----------



## juli95 (Nov 19, 2021)

One question to the AZ09 Pro owners. I have the AZ09. And the adapter is crazy loud. I couldn't use them if i couldn't turn down the master and application volume on my phone separately (see attached screenshot). I basically listen to 5% of 25% of volume. But if i double tap the AZ09 to skip a song, the skipping sound is still VERY loud.
Is that better with the AZ09 Pro?


Spoiler: Screenshot (for some reason way too big)


----------



## voicemaster

juli95 said:


> One question to the AZ09 Pro owners. I have the AZ09. And the adapter is crazy loud. I couldn't use them if i couldn't turn down the master and application volume on my phone separately (see attached screenshot). I basically listen to 5% of 25% of volume. But if i double tap the AZ09 to skip a song, the skipping sound is still VERY loud.
> Is that better with the AZ09 Pro?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Screenshot (for some reason way too big)


I also complained about this problem in my AZ09 impression. Luckily, the pro version has fixed this problem and also the pro has two modes (standard and full power mode) which can be changed by triple pushing the left side button.


----------



## juli95

So the sound level is now generally lower? 😍


----------



## voicemaster

juli95 said:


> So the sound level is now generally lower? 😍


Yes. It is increasing more linear so the volume doesn't jump out too much from 20% to 25% for example. And as I said before, there is full power mode that will make the volume even louder if needed.


----------



## whitete

juli95 said:


> So the sound level is now generally lower? 😍


Yes. I haven’t had any trouble with the volume with my AZ09 Pro. I’ve had it for


----------



## SybilLance

¡Hasta la vista!

This is it.

My endgame gear will be delivered anytime now; the carrier just notified me. I get dizzy just thinking about it.

The hubby volunteered to set up everything but I know he simply wants to have the entire weekend with them. No problem. It’s only fair considering he smiled then shrugged when I suggested his HiFiMAN Arya and Sennheiser HD800S are community property. 

Soon as I have them I won't be active anymore in head-fi. Perhaps an occasional lurk here and there...

Being among friends in the KZ and CCA threads was, and is, quite the experience.

I'd like to thank some very special persons who've made my sojourn here and in the other threads I frequent, truly memorable:

@Slater, whose always-welcome, useful and timely tips, tricks, tweaks and DIY solutions are legendary and which, when collated and compiled would surely be one of, if not the, best resources in head-fi's in-ear headphones threads, encyclopedic as it would be in depth and extent of coverage; @Podster, ever-cheerful and helpful; @B9Scrambler, whose remarkable multi-part article on KZ headphones, written with hands-on experience, sincerity and affection in his The Contraptionist blog, not only serves as a guide and reference to Knowledge Zenith (KZ) product history and evolution but also is the perfect introduction to those starting their journey of musical enjoyment in this milieu of in-ear headphones in general, and of KZ in particular; @DocHoliday, so helpful as well; @1clearhead, with his unique perspective of living in China and seemingly always among the first to get his hands on new stuff; @hakuzen, whose comprehensive list and measurements of the resistance of various cables is another invaluable resource; the other @docholliday, with his illuminating posts on equalization; @Brooko, whose posts finally convinced me to finalize the transition from head-fi lurker to member (hope he's alright); and so many others, special mention off the cuff @PhonoPhi, @antdroid, and @maxxevv for their objective take on things; also @crabdog, @DBaldock9, @voicemaster, @BadReligionPunk, @groucho69, @eclein, @Zerohour88, @Nimweth, @drey101 and all my _kababayans_, @mbwilson111, and her departed partner and soulmate, @HungryPanda, who was, from my very first time in head-fi, always so kind, courteous and considerate. Like dear Podster, a true gentleman. I miss him.

I shall miss you all.

Thank You, and Take Care, everyone.


----------



## Keputs

SybilLance said:


> ¡Hasta la vista!
> 
> This is it.
> 
> ...


We will always be here kabayan. Enjoy your journey. Ingat ka at pagpalain ka nawa.


----------



## InvisibleInk

ZEX Pro


----------



## ChrisOc

SybilLance said:


> ¡Hasta la vista!
> 
> This is it.
> 
> ...


It has been a pleasure lurking on this thread and reading your posts.

Wishing you and your family lots of joy, especially audio related.

Thanks for your muses.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

InvisibleInk said:


> ZEX Pro



At least it's not in the nozzle


----------



## r31ya

Not sure about KZ self published graph reliability but here.


----------



## Viber

r31ya said:


> Not sure about KZ self published graph reliability but here.



Gah. That 2-3k hump is never good news for me.
Good thing most graphs are meaningless.


----------



## danieldvk

r31ya said:


> Not sure about KZ self published graph reliability but here.


Have a release date?


----------



## r31ya

danieldvk said:


> Have a release date?


Not quite sure, Invisible post the image and i hunt for the rest of promo image. I found it here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/qy6c8d/looks_like_kz_is_making_their_first_tribrid/



Viber said:


> Gah. That 2-3k hump is never good news for me.
> Good thing most graphs are meaningless.


I don't quite understand but you could ask seniors here, Something about you need to normalize KZ graph. 
Apparently if you normalize the graph, the gain is not that high and this might be one of the flattest kz.


----------



## unifutomaki

InvisibleInk said:


> ZEX Pro



Very well, my interest is piqued


----------



## axhng

r31ya said:


> Not quite sure, Invisible post the image and i hunt for the rest of promo image. I found it here.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/qy6c8d/looks_like_kz_is_making_their_first_tribrid/
> 
> 
> ...


looking at the values that they are using on the graph, it's like a 5dB rise (I'm assuming it's dB since it's not stated) from 1kHz to the peak at around 2.5kHz, which is actually not that much. But I like that the peak is now a bit further back instead of being at around 2kHz like on the ZEX and CA16 Pro. (provided their graph is even remotely accurate of course, so I wouldn't hold my breath until we see some impressions or graphs )


----------



## r31ya

InvisibleInk said:


> ZEX Pro


Btw, judging by the tails on the dd unit. Thats Xun DD (dq6 dd), it should be pretty decent (good speed, decent texture)


----------



## evasb (Nov 21, 2021)

r31ya said:


> Btw, judging by the tails on the dd unit. Thats Xun DD (dq6 dd), it should be pretty decent (good speed, decent texture)


The bass of ZEX is not that good, imo. If this is really the DQ6 driver, they could fix this.

ZEX Pro is looking like it will be similar to DQ6. I did read people here complaining about the resolution in DQ6's treble (it doesn't bother me), then maybe this one can fix this.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> Btw, judging by the tails on the dd unit. Thats Xun DD (dq6 dd), it should be pretty decent (good speed, decent texture)



Yes this is an exciting development. I'm still really tempted to pull the trigger on the new CA16 Pro since it's shipping also with what appears to be a XUN based driver and has maybe a bit more heat in the top end than the ZAS. 



evasb said:


> The bass of ZEX is not that good, imo. If this is really the DQ6 driver, they could fix this.
> 
> ZEX Pro is looking like it will be similar to DQ6. I have read people here that complained about the resolution in DQ6's treble (it doesn't bother me), then maybe this one can fix this.



A DQ6 with just one 6mm for mids and a x4 array of one of those  BA-matrix sets being stuffed into the AST/ZAS would be a real interesting experiment. The treble on DQ6 is fine if you're not pushing it with EQ, but I found that it didn't really have very good technicalities on the top end, and boosting it just made it grainy and strident. 

I had hoped for a mids centric BA unit to be used for ZEX Pro but also I'm still super curious to hear how this one turns out.  My main complaint on the NRA is its lack of air / brilliance on the top end, so the addition of the tweeter unit should correct that, and the bottom end should be nice 'n tight given the primary XUN driver. On paper at least the ZEX Pro is looking like a really fun set.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 21, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Yes this is an exciting development. I'm still really tempted to pull the trigger on the new CA16 Pro since it's shipping also with what appears to be a XUN based driver and has maybe a bit more heat in the top end than the ZAS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would not hold my breath for the CA16 pro treble, especially when they show the graph  terminating at ca 8 kHz:



Though my revelation with "golden audiophile classics" in tests kindly offered here in the "Science" forum that nothing was there in the recordings past 10 kHz and still quite little from 5 to 10 kHz. It is true that the most information is in the mids, and the bass is just for guilty pleasures, which leaves treble largely for audiophile bragging 

Then XUN is great for the extension to deep lows and the sheer amount of bass, but not actually for speed and/or resolution, in my experience - that should make sense for the physics of it.

The best treble for listening to classics is in AS16 (IMHO; and I do think KZ optimized AS16 for classical music, especially some older "golden" recorfings that are very light in treble). KZ placed two good bass BAs in AS16, but they are there only if needed, and that did not work well for the "audiophile" crowd and reviewers, concentrating on oomphs (less prominent with AS16) and splashes (understandably, way too vivid)...

One may consider grabbing AS16 now at $50, while they last.

Recent fire sales of AS16, AS12 and BA10 signify to me the final departure of KZ from the extended treble and their great Vs. 

If to believe that ChiFi is a close-knit business/village, then their recent CCZ experiments, with the glowing reception of Emerald (with their ultimate BA implementation), alas, clearly showed what works easier... 

So side-firing 30095 could be largely decorative, especially if to trust KZ graphs, but then it would definitely sell better than "30095 in the nozzle" and fainting reviewers 

So I will pass on ZEX pro and these new KZ creations.

This  past 11/11 sale, I got no single DD and 54 BAs 
So I will enjoy revisiting good old friends, their source synergies and some modding.


----------



## lushmelody

What DD type (or IEM model) is the gold standard for bass speed and texture?


----------



## lushmelody (Nov 21, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> I would not hold my breath for the CA16 pro treble, especially when they show the graph  terminating at ca 8 kHz:
> 
> Though my revelation with "golden audiophile classics" in tests kindly offered here in the "Science" forum that nothing was there in the recordings past 10 kHz and still quite little from 5 to 10 kHz. It is true that the most information is in the mids, and the bass is just for guilty pleasures, which leaves treble largely for audiophile bragging
> 
> ...


The BL-03 success and the fatigue discourse definetely influenced recent Chi-Fi. It seems tonality and timbre > technicalities now...


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919069248.html


Is the BA10 one of KZ´s best BA iems? Asking for a friend.


----------



## InvisibleInk

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919069248.html
> 
> 
> Is the BA10 one of KZ´s best BA iems? Asking for a friend.


Without a doubt! Just edged out by the AS10.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919069248.html
> 
> 
> Is the BA10 one of KZ´s best BA iems? Asking for a friend.



At that price it's a nice bargain, assuming you're not small eared.  

Bottom end is solid and doesn't make me want to light them on fire because of the dreaded "BA bass", but I miss the edge of the slam on some styles of rock if I'm listening for it. Otherwise, it's easily worthy of that title. I just like hybrids better, speaking for myself.


----------



## lushmelody

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> At that price it's a nice bargain, assuming you're not small eared.
> 
> Bottom end is solid and doesn't make me want to light them on fire because of the dreaded "BA bass", but I miss the edge of the slam on some styles of rock if I'm listening for it. Otherwise, it's easily worthy of that title. I just like hybrids better, speaking for myself.


Best formula IMO too, if the brand manages well the coherence challenge


----------



## RCracer777

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919069248.html
> 
> 
> Is the BA10 one of KZ´s best BA iems? Asking for a friend.


Honestly the BA10 is the best KZ out there if you ask me. Hell, because of this low price I've got a back up one on it's way.
It's not perfect, especially with that fit, but that's a easy fix. And due to being vented the BA pressure build up is nowhere near as bad as most all BA sets. 
While it does put technicality before timbre, it's no worse than your average KZ Hybrid like the ZS10 Pro or ZAX in it.

Will it beat your favorite KZ DQ6... dunno, mine isn't modded.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> Recent fire sales of AS16, AS12 and BA10 signify to me the final departure of KZ from the extended treble and their great Vs.



It certainly looks that way. The top end  is gone for good I think. OTOH I have to begrudgingly admit that it isn't healthy. I find myself listening to gk10, heart mirror, and nra much more than my other KZs as of late. The older BA tech, while nice and bright, sets my tinnitus on fire and leads to fatigue after about 45 minutes at moderate volumes. If I leave the top end dialed down and warm up the bottom end for low volume playback, they're fine. C12 is perfect for exactly this. 



PhonoPhi said:


> The best treble for listening to classics is in AS16 (IMHO; and I do think KZ optimized AS16 for classical music, especially some older "golden" recorfings that are very light in treble). KZ placed two good bass BAs in AS16, but they are there only if needed, and that did not work well for the "audiophile" crowd and reviewers, concentrating on oomphs (less prominent with AS16) and splashes (understandably, way too vivid)...



That factory graph does look bad. There's no shortage of modern, high quality classical music recordings though, either. No treble from 10k and up means no upper harmonics from acoustic instruments, which makes the timbre sound flat and lifeless.  I feel like the Tri Starsea is probably better as a neutral-bright choice for classical compared to AS16, but I haven't heard either set.


----------



## IEMbiker

Zex Pro coming soon. Preorder now, it said deliver in 7day. Price around USD 32. Found at Lazada.


----------



## Nimweth

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919069248.html
> 
> 
> Is the BA10 one of KZ´s best BA iems? Asking for a friend.


In a word, yes. It is not only KZ's best BA model, it is my favourite of all my BA IEMs.


----------



## axhng

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Yes this is an exciting development. I'm still really tempted to pull the trigger on the new CA16 Pro since it's shipping also with what appears to be a XUN based driver and has maybe a bit more heat in the top end than the ZAS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the CA16 Pro and probably wouldn't use the word "tight" to describe its bass though. It's not quite slow either, but there is just so much of it that it kinda sound a bit boomy and smeared together in faster bass heavy tracks. I'll say it's probably quantity over quality here. I did a quick comparison with the OG XUN in the Z1 and the Z1's bass sounds a bit cleaner to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## r31ya

axhng said:


> I have the CA16 Pro and probably wouldn't use the word "tight" to describe its bass though. It's not quite slow either, but there is just so much of it that it kinda sound a bit boomy and smeared together in faster bass heavy tracks. I'll say it's probably quantity over quality here. I did a quick comparison with the OG XUN in the Z1 and the Z1's bass sounds a bit cleaner to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


sheesh... I'm somewhat a bit miffed with CCA CA16 Pro.
CCA CA16 is great sounding IEM. Why the "Pro" Version instead of improving the already well recieved SQ, decided to go to different direction?

but yeah, as i tried to listen to DQ6, Xun DD have decent texture (compared to KZ old DD who just sounds like thunk thunk thunk, it have impact but thats it), decent speed to keep up with faster track, but the sound tails... its a bit boomy and causing it a to smear the bass sound.


----------



## lushmelody (Nov 22, 2021)

Parallel to XUN there is KZs new triple magnet DD... Is NRAs bass with good speed and texture? They didn't extend that driver bass (yet) like they are doing rn with XUN


----------



## 1clearhead

SybilLance said:


> ¡Hasta la vista!
> 
> This is it.
> 
> ...


Take good care of yourself and keep listening and enjoying your favorite collection of earphones! 

-Clear


----------



## ChristianM

KZ ZEX Pro...........

Are these Pre Order IEMs demo IEMs or are they final build?

Aliexpress KZ ZEX Pro


----------



## baskingshark

ChristianM said:


> KZ ZEX Pro...........
> 
> Are these Pre Order IEMs demo IEMs or are they final build?
> 
> Aliexpress KZ ZEX Pro



They are final build. But nothing is "final" in KZ land. A week or so later, a "PRO" version of this model will probably be released LOL.


----------



## ChristianM

baskingshark said:


> They are final build. But nothing is "final" in KZ land. A week or so later, a "PRO" version of this model will probably be released LOL.


This is a PRO version


----------



## baskingshark

ChristianM said:


> This is a PRO version



The Pro version of the Pro version then. KZ has reputation for this.


----------



## 4ceratops

ChristianM said:


> KZ ZEX Pro...........
> 
> Are these Pre Order IEMs demo IEMs or are they final build?
> 
> Aliexpress KZ ZEX Pro


Thanks for the link. Ordered for € 26.81 with a discount of € 9.16. We'll see what a "wonder" it will be.


----------



## dharmasteve

With the upcoming KZ ZEX Pro, I have an IEM with an Electret, DD and BA, the ****** MT300. If the result is as good as the ******MT300 then it will be happy making. The MT300 was originally over $150 but many of us bought it at about £50-60.....and it sounds terrific So for $30 we could be in for a treat if the KZ tuning ears can get this on point.


----------



## Nimweth

dharmasteve said:


> With the upcoming KZ ZEX Pro, I have an IEM with an Electret, DD and BA, the ****** MT300. If the result is as good as the ******MT300 then it will be happy making. The MT300 was originally over $150 but many of us bought it at about £50-60.....and it sounds terrific So for $30 we could be in for a treat if the KZ tuning ears can get this on point.


+1 for the MT300. Excellent sound and very extended top end. One of my favourites.


----------



## Sebulr

Just ordered a ba10 for £40 coming tomorrow.


----------



## IEMbiker

ChristianM said:


> This is a PRO version


The Pro version of the Pro is cal Pro X....


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Too ordered KZ ZEX Pro (will compare with CCA NRA).

KZ EDS comming 









the differences are very small, but I like the EDS more. in them the bass is slightly more accurate and percussive, the mids are a little closer to the listener, and also a little more high frequencies


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 22, 2021)

Small Green KZ collection 
KZ AS06 very very good, complected with new KZ cable(same as EDX Pro/EDS). KZ AS12 too good(more neutral).

Very strange version of AS06:


----------



## Arjey

Looks like u can get the ZEX Pro for $23 ($10 store discount) if ur an old client. Unfortunately I'm not ready to take the risk of getting a product without any reviews. Hope I'm not making a mistake by passing the offer, but if anyone wants to get it (and is an old customer), check ur inbox, now is the time


----------



## Barndoor

Looking forward to seeing some ZEX pro impressions, but holding off at the moment. The implementation of 30095 in the CCA CSN was nothing special. Hopefully they'll nail it this time.


----------



## ChristianM

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Small Green KZ collection
> KZ AS06 very very good, complected with new KZ cable(same as EDX Pro/EDS). KZ AS12 too good(more neutral).
> 
> Very strange version of AS06:


What are these silicon tips, both white/blue and white? thanks


----------



## ChristianM

I'm still using ZSX for one and a half year. if the reviews of ZEX Pro are good then I'll order one on Christmas.


----------



## lushmelody

I don't think ZEX Pro treble will be extended like * MT300, but I hope I'm wrong


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

ChristianM said:


> What are these silicon tips, both white/blue and white? thanks


Just white - stock KZ EDX Pro/EDS, whiteAndBlue :
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AWrq46


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 22, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32919069248.html
> 
> 
> Is the BA10 one of KZ´s best BA iems? Asking for a friend.


BA10 would be nice and representative, and a good test for one's audiophile ear fitting capabilities
For me, AS16 are the best of older all-BAs, and then AST with a good bright source can shine!

For you personally, I would recommend AS12 - very good old (Knowles-like and tight) bass, and in good amount (two BAs).
Then the treble is... well, messed-up (to my limited ears). Very powerful BAs were used (never before and never after) and then heavily (and they meant it) dampened by a filter.
So when you remove the nozzle filters - you can first feel that those banshees of A10/TP10/KB10 are gentle fairies by a wide contrast 
Then here will come your great modding skills - to test how much dampening they would need to sound acceptable. I do think that AS12 hold the best modding potential by far! (I could not resist to get my second pair and two AS16s).
For their current $25, I hope it should sound irresistible 



SpaceOperaVillain said:


> It certainly looks that way. The top end  is gone for good I think. OTOH I have to begrudgingly admit that it isn't healthy. I find myself listening to gk10, heart mirror, and nra much more than my other KZs as of late. The older BA tech, while nice and bright, sets my tinnitus on fire and leads to fatigue after about 45 minutes at moderate volumes. If I leave the top end dialed down and warm up the bottom end for low volume playback, they're fine. C12 is perfect for exactly this.
> 
> 
> 
> That factory graph does look bad. There's no shortage of modern, high quality classical music recordings though, either. No treble from 10k and up means no upper harmonics from acoustic instruments, which makes the timbre sound flat and lifeless.  I feel like the Tri Starsea is probably better as a neutral-bright choice for classical compared to AS16, but I haven't heard either set.


Just briefly for the equalizing - it works reasonably well for cutting something out, not adding. Then for DDs, the cross-coupling typically limits the equalizing even more.
I can now understand that BA10, etc, can feel way too bright and fatiguing with the brutal sources - but then I can always attenuate by multiple ways and enjoy it even more


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

PhonoPhi said:


> BA10 would be nice and representative, and a good test for one's audiophile ear fitting capabilities
> For me, AS16 are the best of older all-BAs, and then AST with a good bright source can shine!
> 
> For you personally, I would recommend AS12 - very good old (Knowles-like and tight) bass, and in good amount (two BAs).
> ...


I agree, as12 is very good headphones, especially for these $ 20-25 (depending on what discount and coupons), I would also recommend as06, they are very awesome too


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Wait, the ZEX Pro has been released. I don't see it on the KZ website.

Can someone post a link.


----------



## Robius

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Wait, the ZEX Pro has been released. I don't see it on the KZ website.
> 
> Can someone post a link.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003591690796.html


----------



## 4ceratops

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Wait, the ZEX Pro has been released. I don't see it on the KZ website.
> 
> Can someone post a link.


Or https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...0b-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000026394184073"}


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

4ceratops said:


> Or https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003588219086.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.486727c04RfhuY&algo_pvid=099c2e50-2fda-493a-8d4f-7a2c13562c0b&algo_exp_id=099c2e50-2fda-493a-8d4f-7a2c13562c0b-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000026394184073"}


Any reviews on youtube yet?


----------



## 4ceratops

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Any reviews on youtube yet?


Zero.


----------



## danieldvk

I bought this and took advantage of the - U$10,00 coupon.


----------



## Echalon

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Wait, the ZEX Pro has been released. I don't see it on the KZ website.
> 
> Can someone post a link.


Also on the official store https://a.aliexpress.com/_v4vmkg


----------



## imparanoic

any opinions on KZ flagship AST? is it good? worth buying? or is it tuned funny like the previous flagship ASZ, not great?


----------



## bhazard

ZEX Pro $22 with coupon. Insta-buy.


----------



## MacAttack7

imparanoic said:


> any opinions on KZ flagship AST? is it good? worth buying? or is it tuned funny like the previous flagship ASZ, not great?


I like it enough that I may buy a 2nd pair if they go on a good sale. I paid $91.40 for the first pair with a discount and a coupon.
But I have to admit I like the ASX, so I'm probably not a good person to ask. Besides liking the sound of the AST & ASX both fit me perfectly and isolate well which are both high on my list of important criteria. I find the AST slightly mellower than the ASX. Besides that I'm terrible at evaluating earphones unless there is something obviously wrong, and I don't notice anything wrong.


----------



## MacAttack7

bhazard said:


> ZEX Pro $22 with coupon. Insta-buy.


That is hard to resist. I have no use whatsoever for another pair of earphones, but $22 is tempting. Probably not going to do it though. I'm trying to wait until something I really, really, really want comes along.


----------



## r31ya

MacAttack7 said:


> That is hard to resist. I have no use whatsoever for another pair of earphones, but $22 is tempting. Probably not going to do it though. I'm trying to wait until something I really, really, really want comes along.


My Aria barely 2 month old but KZ Tribid at $22 is mighty tempting.
KZ ZEX Pro preorder is sold at $38 in local "official" seller


----------



## unifutomaki

ZEX Pro ordered.


----------



## dharmasteve

I've ordered the KZ ZEX Pro too. Very good deals at the moment. I'm using quite a new company I've never used before, so I hope they are on the ball. My main comparisons will be with the KZ ZEX itself and with the ******MT300 which has the Electret/Magnetostat, DD, BA too. In the ******MT300 Linsoul call the electret,  a *7mm TDK* electrostatic driver, so don't know if it is a real Electrostatic driver, I doubt it.....does anybody know?


----------



## evasb (Nov 23, 2021)

ZEX Pro has more than 300 orders already.

If it is, as I suspect, an improved DQ6 with better treble, it will be a hit.


----------



## PhonoPhi

dharmasteve said:


> I've ordered the KZ ZEX Pro too. Very good deals at the moment. I'm using quite a new company I've never used before, so I hope they are on the ball. My main comparisons will be with the KZ ZEX itself and with the ******MT300 which has the Electret/Magnetostat, DD, BA too. In the ******MT300 Linsoul call the electret,  a *7mm TDK* electrostatic driver, so don't know if it is a real Electrostatic driver, I doubt it.....does anybody know?


MT300 have been discussed to have piezo - that are the only TDK units of this size; it fits both the fire sales and the signature of the well-implemented piezo that to me NX7 series aspired to be but never reached...





Mr.HiAudio said:


> I agree, as12 is very good headphones, especially for these $ 20-25 (depending on what discount and coupons), I would also recommend as06, they are very awesome too


Very much true, AS06 and AS10 are more source-friendly, but then no fire sales, similar to AST.


MacAttack7 said:


> I like it enough that I may buy a 2nd pair if they go on a good sale. I paid $91.40 for the first pair with a discount and a coupon.
> But I have to admit I like the ASX, so I'm probably not a good person to ask. Besides liking the sound of the AST & ASX both fit me perfectly and isolate well which are both high on my list of important criteria. I find the AST slightly mellower than the ASX. Besides that I'm terrible at evaluating earphones unless there is something obviously wrong, and I don't notice anything wrong.


AST are great with the bright sources!
Then ASX are still my top IEM (I modified the nozzle - my ears prefer wide and shallow acoustic coupling; but then everyone is different, it may work  well "as is".)
I would pick up the second pair of AST at $100, but no sales. Indicative of either demand or KZ internal valuation.

KZ pricing, actually, is a very good indicator. So based on the prices, the BA driver in ZEX pro would be at best similar to one in CCA CSN, if not more downplayed. If the pro version is only $2-3 above in price - that would likely be the sound difference, but I will be happy to be wrong


----------



## dharmasteve

PhonoPhi said:


> MT300 have been discussed to have piezo - that are the only TDK units of this size; it fits both the fire sales and the signature of the well-implemented piezo that to me NX7 series aspired to be but never reached...
> Very much true, AS06 and AS10 are more source-friendly, but then no fire sales, similar to AST.
> 
> AST are great with the bright sources!
> ...


If it is a piezo I like the tuning of the MT300 piezo. Some time ago I got the LZ A7 because I got an order number prize from Linsoul and the piezo tuning on those is really good. It does show, though, how we haven't got the faintest ideas if some of these companies put in what they say they put into their IEM's........unless someone does a teardown to prove it. A case in point is.....does the KBear Believe have a pure Beryllium driver in it, as they say, because that would not be easy to implement at the cost.


----------



## lushmelody

imparanoic said:


> any opinions on KZ flagship AST? is it good? worth buying? or is it tuned funny like the previous flagship ASZ, not great?


Discounted definetely it is. But you need to know to what you get: bass is loud with great midbass impact but still BA bass (the fastest but not much rumble); stock tuning is also treble shy (if you care too much for high treble instruments like cymbals being fully extended). 

Still... Its an enjoyable tuning, very fun IEM and you can PEQ it for a bit more treble and microdetails. @ExTubeGamer shared his and liked it a lot (+ presence, right amount of treble gain). 

Also, you can consider that the amount of BAs give good separation and depth that is rare in the price range. So its a 3,5/4 star stock tuning (+ terrible accessories) but you can improve the sound to 4,5/5 (if you like bassy, energetic IEMs 😝)


----------



## lushmelody

I'm also tempted for ZEX Pro but also waiting something to be a very very big deal. So I'll wait impressions 

Imagine if it performs similar or almost as good as Dunu EST112... Let's see if KZ is tuning more around that laid back sound or like the treblehead * MT300 (dont think so). Still, that driver config less than $30 lol makes you question general IEMs prices


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

evasb said:


> ZEX Pro has more than 300 orders already.
> 
> If it is, as I suspect, an improved DQ6 with better treble, it will be a hit.


Are they ordering from the official KZ aliexpress website?

I want to order a pair, but not sure where.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Ordered. I'm excited to hear the next thing emerging out of the KZ forgery.





Capo Dei Capi said:


> Are they ordering from the official KZ aliexpress website?
> 
> I want to order a pair, but not sure where.



I just ordered from the official KZ store. 26 euro, shipped.


----------



## Rocket222

I got KZ ZSX and I think it is ok.  I use it to, mostly, listen to Spotify and watch video on YouTube, connected with Tempotec Sonata HD pro.  I am wondering if KZ BA10 is a good upgrade to ZSX.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Rocket222 said:


> I got KZ ZSX and I think it is ok.  I use it to, mostly, listen to Spotify and watch video on YouTube, connected with Tempotec Sonata HD pro.  I am wondering if KZ BA10 is a good upgrade to ZSX.


If you are fan of KZ, and you don't own a BA10, then your collection is incomplete.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

InvisibleInk said:


> If you are fan of KZ, and you don't own a BA10, then your collection is incomplete.



💯💯💯


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> Then ASX are still my top IEM (I modified the nozzle - my ears prefer wide and shallow acoustic coupling; but then everyone is different, it may work  well "as is".)
> I would pick up the second pair of AST at $100, but no sales. Indicative of either demand or KZ internal valuation.


Why do so many people hate the ASX, and then a lot of those same people like the AST?
They don't sound that much different to me. I think I may prefer the ASX actually.
I don't know if they meet the reviewer's technical criteria, but I get more absorbed in the music and enjoy it more using them than any of my other IEM's.


----------



## Kumonomukou

InvisibleInk said:


> If you are fan of KZ, and you don't own a BA10, then your collection is incomplete.


I wasn't huge on KZ, but ordered BA10(Gold/Red) on 11.11 anyways. I really enjoyed ZS7, and not so much on EDX. BTW does anyone know how to easily wash away the paint on BA10? They'll look great with that industrial Silver/Grey look. Not sure if alcohol or acetone would get it done.

I'm thinking of getting another KZ on BF. Currently picking between DQ6 and Zex Pro. DQ6 getting relatively good reviews while 'tribird' just sounds cool in general. I'd be excited if Zex Pro performs like MT300 with little bit tamed treble and more body on mids.

Aesthetically that heart shape on Zex Pro faceplate knocked some points off my impression. I mean, they could've been triangles, or circles... We're too cool for 'hearts' in any fashions. What do you guys think lol?


----------



## evasb (Nov 23, 2021)

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Are they ordering from the official KZ aliexpress website?
> 
> I want to order a pair, but not sure where.


https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003589418259.html

I always prefer to buy in the official store because in the warranty terms they say explicitly that they cover the KZ Official Store.


----------



## Ceeluh7

MacAttack7 said:


> Why do so many people hate the ASX, and then a lot of those same people like the AST?
> They don't sound that much different to me. I think I may prefer the ASX actually.
> I don't know if they meet the reviewer's technical criteria, but I get more absorbed in the music and enjoy it more using them than any of my other IEM's.


You unfortunately see this too often man. Go with your ears. Unfortunately when reviewers throw out horrible grades based on thier own subjective preferences it does affect the consumer. We pay our hard earned money for this hobby and most of the time it is the reviews out there that persuade us one way or the other. I will say that after the initial trashing of the asx.... Turns out when people sit down and listen to it... Some people actually dig it.


----------



## lushmelody

MacAttack7 said:


> Why do so many people hate the ASX, and then a lot of those same people like the AST?
> They don't sound that much different to me. I think I may prefer the ASX actually.
> I don't know if they meet the reviewer's technical criteria, but I get more absorbed in the music and enjoy it more using them than any of my other IEM's.


My guess for that absorbing quality is the ASX pinna gain. The AST provides a little less pinna and its merit might be a bit more audible and resolving treble. Still too dark stock tuning tho (that you can fix kinda easily actually). They are still fun in stock if you consider enjoyment over high fidelity I think


----------



## MacAttack7

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> 💯💯💯


I was just looking at the BA10 for $20. 
How the heck do you fit that square thing in your ear and get a good seal without it falling out?


----------



## Sebulr

Rocket222 said:


> I got KZ ZSX and I think it is ok.  I use it to, mostly, listen to Spotify and watch video on YouTube, connected with Tempotec Sonata HD pro.  I am wondering if KZ BA10 is a good upgrade to ZSX.


Just got my ba10 today. It has slightly more midbass than the zsx. Which is my preference. Only by a hair however. I think the upper treble is slightly more refined than the zsx as the ba isn't in the nozzle. The zsx has more air. Both are very nice.

I've just ordered a c type az09 to go with them. So both my zsx and ba10 will have az09 connectors. The main snag with the az09 is you have to forget the pairing when you put them away, as they tend to repair with my phone when the battery fills up. I'll see if the new one does this too, or if it's just a one off.


----------



## Unolord

Sebulr said:


> Just got my ba10 today. It has slightly more midbass than the zsx. Which is my preference. Only by a hair however. I think the upper treble is slightly more refined than the zsx as the ba isn't in the nozzle. The zsx has more air. Both are very nice.
> 
> I've just ordered a c type az09 to go with them. So both my zsx and ba10 will have az09 connectors. The main snag with the az09 is you have to forget the pairing when you put them away, as they tend to repair with my phone when the battery fills up. I'll see if the new one does this too, or if it's just a one off.



My KZ S2 TWS does the exact same thing. If the charging case runs out before fully charging the S2, the S2 will turn on automatically. Really annoying. I'm pretty sure that I've read about the other KZ TWS' doing the exact same thing.


----------



## Sebulr (Nov 24, 2021)

Unolord said:


> My KZ S2 TWS does the exact same thing. If the charging case runs out before fully charging the S2, the S2 will turn on automatically. Really annoying. I'm pretty sure that I've read about the other KZ TWS' doing the exact same thing.


Not quite what I meant. The case still has charge. It's just when the headsets are charged they disconnect and then connect to that last remembered device. It's annoying if I wander into distance with my phone in my pocket if I'm using another device. It grabs the audio stream. So I "forget" the pairing each time I put them away.

(Edit, autocorrect error)

I binned my S2. They had some kind of static problem and didn't have any bass. And yes. They had they auto connect problem you mentioned. I think the microphone or something was wired badly.


----------



## Kumonomukou (Nov 24, 2021)

MacAttack7 said:


> I was just looking at the BA10 for $20.
> How the heck do you fit that square thing in your ear and get a good seal without it falling out?


Seal is on the tips and cables/earhooks to keep them still. The fit was definitely a concern. I for one dig the Unique boxy design and metal shells. People have no problem with EXK, iSine, and ER4 if they're deemed 'Good'. Not to mention some of the KZ big chunky brothers.

I have no problem with the square design, but I really dislike KZ's space management within the shell. There are plenty of rooms inside the shell, why not shrink it to make them compact?!


----------



## Viber

Sebulr said:


> Just got my ba10 today. It has slightly more midbass than the zsx. Which is my preference. Only by a hair however. I think the upper treble is slightly more refined than the zsx as the ba isn't in the nozzle. The zsx has more air. Both are very nice.
> 
> I've just ordered a c type az09 to go with them. So both my zsx and ba10 will have az09 connectors. The main snag with the az09 is you have to forget the pairing when you put them away, as they tend to repair with my phone when the battery fills up. I'll see if the new one does this too, or if it's just a one off.



I'm pretty sure the ba10 uses a type B connector.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Design looks


----------



## TheVortex

RikudouGoku said:


> Design looks



Looks good and a more fancy DD is used. I was expecting the CCA version of the ZEX Pro.

If it's "worth orver" USD 1000 then it must be good


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

evasb said:


> https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003589418259.html
> 
> I always prefer to buy in the official store because in the warranty terms they say explicitly that they cover the KZ Official Store.


Just ordered the ZEX Pro. Got a black friday deal for only 17.00 pounds.


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 24, 2021)

TheVortex said:


> Looks good and a more fancy DD is used. I was expecting the CCA version of the ZEX Pro.
> 
> If it's "worth orver" USD 1000 then it must be good


----------



## 4ceratops

TheVortex said:


> Looks good and a more fancy DD is used. I was expecting the CCA version of the ZEX Pro.
> 
> If it's "worth orver" USD 1000 then it must be good


Yes, they obviously have a typo there.  They wanted to write: "worth Orwell USD 1984"


----------



## r31ya (Nov 24, 2021)

TheVortex said:


> Looks good and a more fancy DD is used. I was expecting the CCA version of the ZEX Pro.
> 
> If it's "worth orver" USD 1000 then it must be good


I hate that kind of marketing.
There is one in a PC fair in my hometown, i saw multiple banner saying "Earphone worth $100 only sold for $10"
I tried it, well it have fancy box but sound wise, dude, its so muddy that any cheap phillips or jvc in that price will outperform it.
---
Not sure what this means, but i hope someone could translate it.



> "Characteristics of CRA sound curve:
> 1. the high frequency is 7k-18k, and the sensitivity is about 100dB, while other peers basically can't reach this high frequency level.
> 2. CRA's low-frequency voice separation is very good, and it is not turbid. Other peers may be turbid."
> 3. 3.8 micron diaphragm can perform better than liquid crystal diaphragm and carbon nanotube diaphragm. Because the diaphragm is thin and light, the vibration frequency is larger, faster and the high frequency is better.


----------



## TheVortex

r31ya said:


> I hate that kind of marketing.
> There is one in a PC fair in my hometown, i saw multiple banner saying "Earphone worth $100 only sold for $10"
> I tried it, well it have fancy box but sound wise, dude, its so muddy that any cheap phillips or jvc in that price will outperform it.
> ---
> Not sure what this means, but i hope someone could translate it.



I hate it as well and see it quite often but I know it's BS but people new to chi-fi might get mislead and buy something that is not all that good.


----------



## Sebulr

Viber said:


> I'm pretty sure the ba10 uses a type B connector.


Haha yes. It does. Another typo. I did actually order the correct one


----------



## r31ya

Against my better judgement, in front of incoming CCA CRA with new DD.
i preordered ZEX Pro.

The discount...
And i want to buy a coworker of mine a IEM, so if i don't particularly fond of it, i'll gift it to him.
But if its a disaster.. well thats $28 that i somewhat waste...


----------



## Tzennn

RikudouGoku said:


> Design looks


Ok now we have NRA pro. When will ZEX Pro X Max drop ?


----------



## 4ceratops

Tzennn said:


> Ok now we have NRA pro. When will ZEX Pro X Max drop ?


This certainly cannot be considered an NRA PRO. CRA is different concept, only single DD with new type of dynamic driver.


----------



## r31ya

4ceratops said:


> This certainly cannot be considered an NRA PRO. CRA is different concept, only single DD with new type of dynamic driver.


Yup, it seems to be single DD with super extended treble. hopefully smooth extended treble.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> Yup, it seems to be single DD with super extended treble. hopefully smooth extended treble.



heart mirror pulled this off _really_ well. there's a half-decent chance they can do the same.


----------



## Nimweth

Enjoying a retro classic, ZS7. Sub bass is hard to beat, if you have the ZS7, try this one:


----------



## lushmelody

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> heart mirror pulled this off _really_ well. there's a half-decent chance they can do the same.


Can you do a brief comparison between BA10 and Heart Mirror? 🥺


----------



## Viber

So what's new in Zex pro?  Only 1 ba added for moar treble?  Is there another change from the original?


----------



## Nimweth

lushmelody said:


> Can you do a brief comparison between BA10 and Heart Mirror? 🥺


I have both of these, here is a concise comparison:
The Heart Mirror is neutral/bright, with a linear bass, forward mids and a clean, extended and detailed treble. It has excellent timbre as per its DD roots and is technically adept but has an average size staging. The earpieces are small, very well made and comfortable. It performs at a level normally found at a much higher price. Lovers of powerful bass will need to look elsewhere. 

The BA10 is mildly V-shaped and has a visceral bass with good speed almost DD-like in timbre, a slightly recessed midrange with good tonality for an all-BA design and a well-tuned treble which is dialled back compared to other KZ models, the two 30095 BAs being housed inside the main body and not placed in the nozzle. Staging is larger than the Heart Mirror and the overall sound has that BA immediacy and speed normally associated with these drivers. The solidly built housing is large and square shaped and may cause problems for those with small ear canals. The two IEMs are very different in character. 
This is with my source and the stock cables and tips, and, of course, my ears, YMMV as always!


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Nimweth said:


> I have both of these, here is a concise comparison:
> The Heart Mirror is neutral/bright, with a linear bass, forward mids and a clean, extended and detailed treble. It has excellent timbre as per its DD roots and is technically adept but has an average size staging. The earpieces are small, very well made and comfortable. It performs at a level normally found at a much higher price. Lovers of powerful bass will need to look elsewhere.
> 
> The BA10 is mildly V-shaped and has a visceral bass with good speed almost DD-like in timbre, a slightly recessed midrange with good tonality for an all-BA design and a well-tuned treble which is dialled back compared to other KZ models, the two 30095 BAs being housed inside the main body and not placed in the nozzle. Staging is larger than the Heart Mirror and the overall sound has that BA immediacy and speed normally associated with these drivers. The solidly built housing is large and square shaped and may cause problems for those with small ear canals. The two IEMs are very different in character.
> This is with my source and the stock cables and tips, and, of course, my ears, YMMV as always!



Agree 💯%.  I have to say that PowerDAC's wet/dry tweak sounds great with HM. Adds just a touch of warmth around 80 Hz and makes them very enjoyable.

 BA10s are a beast on the same amp.


----------



## r31ya (Nov 25, 2021)

Viber said:


> So what's new in Zex pro?  Only 1 ba added for moar treble?  Is there another change from the original?


It seems ,
1. Same, Magnetostat like the one in NRA and ZEX
2. Different, Xun DD instead of the ol double magnet DD, (Xun have decent speed, some texture, but somewhat lingering sound tails)
3. New, 30095 BA (1st gen)
---
The CCA CRA is right now really interesting because it have newer DD that is claimed to have more extended treble.
---
Its been awhile since i tried it.
KZ ZS7 is somewhat special, great air, deeper bass. Personally ZS7 is on par with KZ ZS10. Sound wise, i might prefer KZ ZS7 by a bit from that air possibly from that semi open back. 
But day to day use, ZS10 have way better shell form and in the end i choose ZS10.


----------



## Viber

r31ya said:


> It seems ,
> 1. Same, Magnetostat like the one in NRA and ZEX
> 2. Different, Xun DD instead of the ol double magnet DD, (Xun have decent speed, some texture, but somewhat lingering sound tails)
> 3. New, 30095 BA (1st gen)
> ...



Why do you think the pro has the xun driver?  I didnt see anything about that


----------



## r31ya (Nov 25, 2021)

Viber said:


> Why do you think the pro has the xun driver?  I didnt see anything about that


I could be wrong, but Xun have that conical cap on the DD,
You could see the cone end on that ZEX pro DD.
---








---
In comparison, this is the one off Triple Magnet DD on CCA NRA, or the older Double Magnet in ZSN Pro X


----------



## chinmie

my AZ09 pro has just arrived, case is slightly smaller than the BT20S pro and a bit larger than my Sony XM3. The real surprise is the unit itself, almost half the size of the BT20S Pro... nice... 

Soundwise it has low enough noise, about the same as thw BT20S Pro. i only got to try it with my Blon BL01, i would cut the 2 pin sleeve later like @voicemaster did on his unit and use it with my other IEM. Overall first impression it is a good product.


----------



## chinmie

Done! there's a bit of a hard plastic sleeve/shroud near the bottom of the pins, so need a bit of extra work there.


----------



## Viber

chinmie said:


> Done! there's a bit of a hard plastic sleeve/shroud near the bottom of the pins, so need a bit of extra work there.



I'm a bit confused... After this mod the adpater works well with both types? Or does it not fit type c well anymore?


----------



## chinmie

Viber said:


> I'm a bit confused... After this mod the adpater works well with both types? Or does it not fit type c well anymore?


It can still fit protuding type c 2pin IEMs or Blon 01, but with this mod i can use my other IEMs that have flush 2pin type


----------



## Viber

chinmie said:


> It can still fit protuding type c 2pin IEMs or Blon 01, but with this mod i can use my other IEMs that have flush 2pin type



Awesome! The pic really helps.  Thanks!


----------



## juli95

chinmie said:


> It can still fit protuding type c 2pin IEMs or Blon 01, but with this mod i can use my other IEMs that have flush 2pin type


To be clear... It will also work with B-Pin after the mod?


----------



## juli95 (Nov 26, 2021)

I got my AZ09 Pro today as well (the 2 BA10s will come tomorrow).

My first impressions:

_Noise_ - The noise floor is really low now. Better than the AZ09 and other adapters i had so far. But still slightly audible.

_Connection_ - So far it seems really stable. I didn't have any issues in normal use (yet). But when i put my hands over my ears when listening to music, i can get the AZ09 Pro to cut out as well. So i will keep an eye on that.

_Sound quality_ - ...is REALLY improved over the AZ09. The sound is clearer, better arranged and more detailed. I don't know if i remember the cabled connection good enough, but i feel like the bass is a little weaker and doesn't reach as much sub-bass on the AZ09 Pro compared to cable. So i think it doesn't completely match cable quality, but sounds very close to it. For my average ears, that is good enough for my daily use.
And most importantly, my AZ09 were lagging in certain frequencies and couldn't properly play a lot of basslines. That is fixed FINALLY!

Amongst the AZ09 Pro, the AZ09, the KZ aptx-HD cable and the TRN BT3S, this one is the best experience (followed by the TRN BT3S).
They still look a lot like hearing aids though


----------



## chinmie

juli95 said:


> To be clear... It will also work with B-Pin after the mod?


it should still work, but if you are going to use the AZ09 pro exclusively with B pin IEMs anyway, I would suggest not to do the mod, because it would be more secure in the unmodded state.


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

Mates, checkout my review in KZ EDC

*https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-edc.25549/reviews



*


----------



## juli95

chinmie said:


> it should still work, but if you are going to use the AZ09 pro exclusively with B pin IEMs anyway, I would suggest not to do the mod, because it would be more secure in the unmodded state.


Well, i have 1 B-Pin and 1 C-Pin i'm gonna be using (when the BA10 arrives). And all my bluetooth gear is C-Pin. So i think i would just mod my TRN or KZ aptx-HD cable to B-Pin if possible, as i'm not using them anymore.


----------



## r31ya (Nov 26, 2021)

Zerstorer_GOhren said:


> Mates, checkout my review in KZ EDC
> 
> *https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-edc.25549/reviews
> *


A more mid centric KZ... Now i hope that KZ ZEX Pro to have great mids and ponders on how CCA will tuned their new DD in CCA CRA.
---
Oh hey, the bluetooth Headphone page is open. Its a bit more interesting than i thought. Titanium Diaphragm...
The KZ T10 ANC Bluetooth Headphone.
https://kz-audio.com/kz-t10.html


----------



## RikudouGoku

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003614954548.html



Design looks beautiful, I will get it. 

That graph though....guess I will have to mod it.


----------



## r31ya

How to "normalize" that graph?
The db range makes it seems have deeper v that it actually is.


----------



## RikudouGoku

CRA + BA10 ordered. Hope I get them before next year and the CRA Pro is out.


----------



## Nimweth

Enjoying the ZS7 with TRI Through cable. It seems to flatten the V and sound more neutral. This track is very impressive :


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

CRA too ordered. Will compare with my EDX Pro and EDS. 
In my case EDX Pro and EDS sounds "around similar"( or ~), but in EDS a bit more bass(deeper) and highs(more wider and higer), and soundstage higher and wide too. 
Edx Pro sounds more warm


----------



## Viber

Bold claims by KZ\CCA with the 14$ CRA there.
They say their driver is equal\surpasses Liquid Crystal Polymer drivers (used in Moondrop Aria, TinHiFi T3 Plus) AND carbon nanotube ( used inTANCHJIM Oxygen, Moondrop Starfield).


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> Bold claims by KZ\CCA with the 14$ CRA there.
> They say their driver is equal\surpasses Liquid Crystal Polymer drivers (used in Moondrop Aria, TinHiFi T3 Plus) AND carbon nanotube ( used inTANCHJIM Oxygen, Moondrop Starfield).


lol, we see about that.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Viber said:


> Bold claims by KZ\CCA with the 14$ CRA there.
> They say their driver is equal\surpasses Liquid Crystal Polymer drivers (used in Moondrop Aria, TinHiFi T3 Plus) AND carbon nanotube ( used inTANCHJIM Oxygen, Moondrop Starfield).


----------



## jant71 (Nov 27, 2021)

Well, the usual KZ marketing hype. But they do not mention anything in particular but "standard Hi-Res audio sounds quality" whatever standard is. Probably akin to average and not better SQ. So better than average. All it actually promises is...


----------



## lushmelody (Nov 27, 2021)

At least is a "very thin DD" idea for $15, contrasting a year of so many $500+ "innovative" single DDs


----------



## jant71

Ooops. You guys didn't post this...




Not just good but $1000 good.  There we go. Seemed like they were holding back a bit there till I looked them up to see what they looked like.


----------



## bhazard

When I see "Heavy Bass", I think "Bloated mess".
There's a $4 coupon though, making the CCA CRA $10 for me. That's less than a beer/cocktail to see if their claims hold up.


----------



## Viber

bhazard said:


> When I see "Heavy Bass", I think "Bloated mess".
> There's a $4 coupon though, making the CCA CRA $10 for me. That's less than a beer/cocktail to see if their claims hold up.



yea haha. 
10$ is a really cheap price if they get to 80% of what they say that driver can do.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

^ agreed. At 11 euros it's just too tempting to resist, and a KZ habit is still cheaper than smoking. Now to see if they get here before Christmas ...


----------



## Viber

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ^ agreed. At 11 euros it's just too tempting to resist, and a KZ habit is still cheaper than smoking. Now to see if they get here before Christmas ...



9 euros*


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Nov 27, 2021)

Viber said:


> 9 euros*



Dang I've been had? I paid 11 at KZ official store after discount coupon. For France it shows up as 15 euro, then 4 euro discount.

Edit: for those in the US you gotta remember they slap 20% VAT tax on everything destined for EU countries.


----------



## Viber

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Dang I've been had? I paid 11 at KZ official store after discount coupon. For France it shows up as 15 euro, then 4 euro discount.



Haha, maybe Ali's currency exchange is broken.  Sometimes it shows the wrong value in my local currency as well but then its fine in the invoice.


----------



## nihil23 (Nov 27, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> lol, we see about that.


Oh, did you hear TinHiFi T3 Plus?


----------



## RikudouGoku

nihil23 said:


> Oh, did you TinHiFi T3 Plus?


No, but for LCP DD´s, I got the Tanchjim Hana (old) and Sony MDR-EX1000 for example.


----------



## nihil23

RikudouGoku said:


> No, but for LCP DD´s, I got the Tanchjim Hana (old) and Sony MDR-EX1000 for example.


Any plans to test them? Because some reviews said that is almost basshead iem (I think they mean that it basshead level relatively other tinhifi IEMs). And LCP DD by Sony was very good, especially with regard to the bass in them


Beside, didn't get why cca cra name it polymer dd, because most of the dd are made of polymers, It is not clear what kind of polymer they mean, apparently this is something not a hype material


----------



## Aparker2005

So the cra looks awesome, but is it only a single driver iem? I can't seem to find that info at all oddly. 

Looking for a cheaper one with my dq6 and CCA ca16 just to have fun with. Music and on stage performance..... Of course no one has this one to review yet, but I'm definitely curious!


----------



## unifutomaki

Aparker2005 said:


> So the cra looks awesome, but is it only a single driver iem? I can't seem to find that info at all oddly.
> 
> Looking for a cheaper one with my dq6 and CCA ca16 just to have fun with. Music and on stage performance..... Of course no one has this one to review yet, but I'm definitely curious!


Yep single DD.


----------



## Aparker2005

unifutomaki said:


> Yep single DD.


Thanks! How does a single compare to a dual? Just less separation mostly? I've only had duals up to 8 drivers per side. Still somewhat new to all these configurations


----------



## unifutomaki

Aparker2005 said:


> Thanks! How does a single compare to a dual? Just less separation mostly? I've only had duals up to 8 drivers per side. Still somewhat new to all these configurations


Well it really depends, there’s no hard and fast rule about it. My Final A4000s put out way more detail, resolution and instrument separation than my KZ ZAX despite the former having a single dynamic driver and the latter having 8 drivers per side. I find single-DD IEMs to _generally_ be more coherent than DD+BA hybrids, because balanced armatures (especially the budget ones) can have a metallic zing to them and faster transients while dynamic drivers tend to sound more natural.


----------



## ChristianM

Still waiting for KZ ZEX Pro review, want to replace it with my ZSX.


----------



## unifutomaki

ChristianM said:


> Still waiting for KZ ZEX Pro review, want to replace it with my ZSX.


My ZEX Pro just shipped


----------



## r31ya (Nov 28, 2021)

Since i have only minimum knowledge on this thing, but out of sheer curiosity. Here's 5 minute mspaint works on CRA, ZEX Pro, DQ6 graph.
Yes, the db scale is different but i just wanna see the the squished KZ graph at similar length with Crins or others graph


----------



## RikudouGoku

nihil23 said:


> Any plans to test them? Because some reviews said that is almost basshead iem (I think they mean that it basshead level relatively other tinhifi IEMs). And LCP DD by Sony was very good, especially with regard to the bass in them


Not interested in it.


----------



## axhng (Nov 29, 2021)

Just got the ZEX Pro, and after a quick listen, definitely better than the ZEX for me. Sounds more balanced to me with less bass quantity, and bass sounds tighter and less warm (even compared to NRA I think). Prefer the mid range tuning a lot more too, I'm not the biggest fan of the earlier bump at around 2kHz like on the ZEX, NRA, CA16 Pro, since to me they sound less natural because they bring the 1-1.5kHz up a bit too. So some vocals end up sounding a bit nasally to me. The ZEX Pro has that gain at around 3kHz which sounds more pleasing for my ears. So definitely liking the mids on these more. Nothing seems really off or what for now, but will need to spend more time with them for sure, but so far so good. Recently tried the TKZK Wave which is around the same price, and I like these so much more. Not sure if it was my set or what, but the metallic timbre wasn't fun to listen to, especially since it's pretty neutral in bass too, so I think it makes that stand out more to me.

Edit: forgot to mention the other stuff. Fit is pretty much perfect for my ears. Better than ZEX/NRA, and CA16 Pro. They are using translucent white starline tips. Cable is same as ZEX/NRA/CA16Pro.


----------



## r31ya

axhng said:


> Just got the ZEX Pro, and after a quick listen, definitely better than the ZEX for me. Sounds more balanced to me with less bass quantity, and bass sounds tighter and less warm (even compared to NRA I think). Prefer the mid range tuning a lot more too, I'm not the biggest fan of the earlier bump at around 2kHz like on the ZEX, NRA, CA16 Pro, since to me they sound less natural because they bring the 1-1.5kHz up a bit too. So some vocals end up sounding a bit nasally to me. The ZEX Pro has that gain at around 3kHz which sounds more pleasing for my ears. So definitely liking the mids on these more. Nothing seems really off or what for now, but will need to spend more time with them for sure, but so far so good. Recently tried the TKZK Wave which is around the same price, and I like these so much more. Not sure if it was my set or what, but the metallic timbre wasn't fun to listen to, especially since it's pretty neutral in bass too, so I think it makes that stand out more to me.
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention the other stuff. Fit is pretty much perfect for my ears. Better than ZEX/NRA, and CA16 Pro. They are using translucent white starline tips. Cable is same as ZEX/NRA/CA16Pro.


Is the iem tip/lip is the same narrow one from Dq6? 

Hows the imaging and soundstage? The shell looks big from the image


----------



## 4ceratops (Nov 29, 2021)

r31ya said:


> Is the iem tip/lip is the same narrow one from Dq6?
> 
> Hows the imaging and soundstage? The shell looks big from the image


The answer to your first and third question is here:


----------



## axhng

r31ya said:


> Is the iem tip/lip is the same narrow one from Dq6?
> 
> Hows the imaging and soundstage? The shell looks big from the image


not sure about that since I don't have the DQ6. shell size is not that big to me. about the same as ZEX actually, but shape is more like KZ Z1. Smaller and more comfortable than the CA16 Pro. Haven't had enough time to say for sure. Got busy with other stuff and had to stop listening.


----------



## r31ya

Thicccker lips nice


----------



## Tzennn

Ok that look as big as CCA CSN


----------



## Insider K (Nov 29, 2021)

Really wonder how is the bass on ZEX Pro, what is the amount of bass, specially sub bass and how bass compares to regular ZEX, ZSX, DQ6, Blon 03 and 01, also how is the soundstage and instrument separation, is it more neutral or V shape tune. Commercial graph looks weird, but KZs graphs never represents true sound and how it actual graphs. Hope by adding 30095 BA it did not bring this popular and unwanted KZ's metallic sibilance. I think it is a good thing thought that BA is at the top, behind other two drivers and not in the front or in the nozzle.


----------



## Kumonomukou

axhng said:


> Just got the ZEX Pro, and after a quick listen, definitely better than the ZEX for me. Sounds more balanced to me with less bass quantity, and bass sounds tighter and less warm (even compared to NRA I think). Prefer the mid range tuning a lot more too, I'm not the biggest fan of the earlier bump at around 2kHz like on the ZEX, NRA, CA16 Pro, since to me they sound less natural because they bring the 1-1.5kHz up a bit too. So some vocals end up sounding a bit nasally to me. The ZEX Pro has that gain at around 3kHz which sounds more pleasing for my ears. So definitely liking the mids on these more. Nothing seems really off or what for now, but will need to spend more time with them for sure, but so far so good. Recently tried the TKZK Wave which is around the same price, and I like these so much more. Not sure if it was my set or what, but the metallic timbre wasn't fun to listen to, especially since it's pretty neutral in bass too, so I think it makes that stand out more to me.
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention the other stuff. Fit is pretty much perfect for my ears. Better than ZEX/NRA, and CA16 Pro. They are using translucent white starline tips. Cable is same as ZEX/NRA/CA16Pro.


Love to see a GREAT first impression on a newly released model. Would also like to hear some comparisons. Was there anything that WOW you during the listening? Does the micro-detail stand out from the rest?

I'm holding it for now after another 2 IEMs + 3 cables ordered past week. You know, one KZ at a time. 😆


----------



## Viber

Just got the CCA CA 16 Pro.
If you are reading this and thinking about buying them - don't.

They couldn't dethrone my ZSR. 
Also disappointed with the Vx10.

What the hell happened to this company???


----------



## Viber

This EQ is needed to make the CA16 pros semi-bearable.
My ears are RINGING, adverse effects from an IEM?  What


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

when that sweet KZ pinna gain kicks in


----------



## Viber

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> when that sweet KZ pinna gain kicks in



Allow me to be even more clear - it's not about emphasis on a certain frequency or sound signature i dont like, it's about poor performance in that region.

I played a beautiful,low octave female vocal and i could hear the drivers ratteling and whisteling in despair.

The CA16p does relatively fine in low volumes, but distorts after about 50% volume.

Wish i could try ZAX for one minute to know if the fault lies within those new black BAs.


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## axhng (Nov 30, 2021)

Insider K said:


> Really wonder how is the bass on ZEX Pro, what is the amount of bass, specially sub bass and how bass compares to regular ZEX, ZSX, DQ6, Blon 03 and 01, also how is the soundstage and instrument separation, is it more neutral or V shape tune. Commercial graph looks weird, but KZs graphs never represents true sound and how it actual graphs. Hope by adding 30095 BA it did not bring this popular and unwanted KZ's metallic sibilance. I think it is a good thing thought that BA is at the top, behind other two drivers and not in the front or in the nozzle.





Kumonomukou said:


> Love to see a GREAT first impression on a newly released model. Would also like to hear some comparisons. Was there anything that WOW you during the listening? Does the micro-detail stand out from the rest?
> 
> I'm holding it for now after another 2 IEMs + 3 cables ordered past week. You know, one KZ at a time. 😆



Still very early on since I just got them, but will try to share some more impressions so far since the promo price is still active as of this post it seems.

Bass quantity to me seems maybe slightly lower than the NRA/ZEX in the mid bass region. especially in the BL03 which has a lot of it. But it's relatively tight sounding and well controlled to me. Nice enough thump when the track calls for it, and nice enough texture too. Soundstage is average to me, but to me, most IEMs are more or less in that category for me, and will always lose to earbuds.  Instrument separation and detail retrieval I think is above average for the price, and if you got it at the 22USD price, it's even more value for money in that regard I guess. The ZEX and NRA i felt already punch above their price for detail retrieval, and this is maybe a small step better I think. But still not going to beat more expensive sets though. (like i think my smabat proto 1.0 and ER4XR still has better technicalities) Haven't heard the DQ6 though, and gave away my ZSX long ago, so can't compare.

Tuning wise probably more of a mild V-shaped. Mids are still slightly behind the treble and bass to me. They are still a bit on the thinner side though. Male vocals seem a bit thinner than even the NRA probably since less mid bass, but upper mids have more presence and body to me, and overall, mids sounds better on the ZEX Pro for me. Compared to BL03, more or less same thing. More body overall, more forward. so prefer the ZEX Pro over those. Slight sibilance for certain vocals and tracks (like if I go look for it in tracks i know are more prone to sibilance it's there, but it's not too bad or unlistenable to me). Shouldn't be a problem for most. Pretty safe tuning overall that isn't shouty, too harsh, or fatiguing to listen to for me. To me, just the shift in the upper mids to a bit further back to 3kHz makes it better for me already. Don't hear that much of a metallic timbre though, but it's also not quite the most natural I've heard either? Slightly tizzy in the cymbals.

Overall... not so much of a WOW factor for me, but more like pleasantly surprised that the bass quality has been slightly improved and that the mids are nicer too, and fits my preference more. The treble region kinda still reminds me a bit of the NRA/ZEX, so feel like most of the changes could have just come from the DD driver used and by tweaking the frequency response a little. Maybe the BA driver is contributing a bit to that better mids, but my completely unscientific guess is that it's probably not doing all that much. But I'm not quite willing to tear it down and disconnect the BA driver or whatnot, and i got no way to measure the FR anyhow, lol, so I'll believe that it's the former for now.

at the promo price now on AliExpress, it's a pretty easy recommendation for me since there is so little I don't like about it. Inoffensive sound and tuning, technicalities that punches above its price bracket too. Like it more than the recent TKZW Wave, TRN TA2, CCA CA16 pro too. But if you're a bass head, or you already have something better, the ZEX Pro doesn't really do anything special in terms of sound. To me it's just a good value for money for the amount of performance it offers at this price point.


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## SomeEntityThing (Nov 30, 2021)

So back on 11.11 I ended up buying an IEM Lucky Bag from a certain AliExpress store that went for roughly $13 CDN... just to treat myself a little bit along with some foam tips to replace my dried up collection.

I ended up getting something called the QKZ ZAX 2, QKZ's latest model from November. The reason why I'm even talking about this in this thread is because I still don't fully understand the relationship between QKZ and KZ but I'm guessing QKZ is some kinda sister company like CCA or the like. Kinda weird naming scheme though since the KZ ZAX boasts a 1DD + 7BA setup vs the QKZ ZAX 2's 1DD, and the ZAX 2 has a faceplate more akin to the KZ ZEX. Turns out these QKZs were going for around $7 CDN during Black Friday on AliExpress. Darn. But hey, that's just the way luck is, eh? The ZAX 2 are the cheapest properly functioning IEMs I've got. Considering my next step up is the DT9, I'm not sure how fair comparisons I may make would be. I musn't expect so much... here's my small impressions after roughly 4-ish days of listening.

My primary testing source was the HiBy FD1 unbalanced into my laptop, but I have also plugged it into my Shanling M0 and Samsung A71 when on the go.

- Treble is actually... lacking??? As I understand it KZ's recent models have generally tried to follow the typical V-shaped tuning which incldues sparkly (and potentially sibilant) treble but this is QKZ we're talking about so maybe that little aside is irrelevant. I find myself longing for more sparkle from pianos, cymbals and female vocals. BUT at least they are, therefore, not sibilant! Mids are similarly kinda dull but not horrendously recessed in relation to the highs and lows.
- Soundstage is fairly narrow horizontally with average-ish height. Vocals are kind of in your face-ish. I've never really tried talking about timbre when describing my audio gear so I'll try giving it a shot here: aside from sparkle missing and stuff as mentioned above which seriously doesn't appeal to me, I think the timbre is otherwise... okay.  I suppose nothing else particularly sounds "off" in any instruments such as guitars and such that makes me go "oof."
- Bass has decent punch, with sub bass in particular being most pronounced. Everything about the sound signature just sounds muffled in general and so I'm not sure if I can chalk it up partly due to bass bleed unfortunately but that might be the case, hahaha.

At the end of the day I've got a beater pair to happily take with me while commuting on buses and trains that pushes out ultimately satisfactory sound amidst the rumbling and roaring of engines and tracks! Predictably, it's really when I sit down at my laptop with stuff like my fun-sounding DT9 or smooth-sounding yet still tastefully bassy Kinera Sif that the ZAX 2's flaws really stand out to me, and so I'm more bummed out by how much I could've saved by buying these IEMs straight from the source at QKZ's store than how they ended up sounding. Again though, that's the way these sorts of lucky bags work.


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## Insider K (Nov 30, 2021)

axhng said:


> Still very early on since I just got them, but will try to share some more impressions so far since the promo price is still active as of this post it seems.
> 
> Bass quantity to me seems maybe slightly lower than the NRA/ZEX in the mid bass region. especially in the BL03 which has a lot of it. But it's relatively tight sounding and well controlled to me. Nice enough thump when the track calls for it, and nice enough texture too. Soundstage is average to me, but to me, most IEMs are more or less in that category for me, and will always lose to earbuds.  Instrument separation and detail retrieval I think is above average for the price, and if you got it at the 22USD price, it's even more value for money in that regard I guess. The ZEX and NRA i felt already punch above their price for detail retrieval, and this is maybe a small step better I think. But still not going to beat more expensive sets though. (like i think my smabat proto 1.0 and ER4XR still has better technicalities) Haven't heard the DQ6 though, and gave away my ZSX long ago, so can't compare.
> 
> ...


Thank you for a more detailed write up. I had a feeling that it is going to lean more on neutral V shape or relaxed tune, while I am a fan of more energetic tune and one could say more bass head territory, I ordered the set anyways... will see.
Upcoming Blon BL-07 might be something more interesting, still waiting on the actual BL-03 step up, even though I am loving BL-01.

PS. what is that BTR5 lookalike thing from Ugreen?


----------



## 4ceratops

axhng said:


> Still very early on since I just got them, but will try to share some more impressions so far since the promo price is still active as of this post it seems.
> 
> Bass quantity to me seems maybe slightly lower than the NRA/ZEX in the mid bass region. especially in the BL03 which has a lot of it. But it's relatively tight sounding and well controlled to me. Nice enough thump when the track calls for it, and nice enough texture too. Soundstage is average to me, but to me, most IEMs are more or less in that category for me, and will always lose to earbuds.  Instrument separation and detail retrieval I think is above average for the price, and if you got it at the 22USD price, it's even more value for money in that regard I guess. The ZEX and NRA i felt already punch above their price for detail retrieval, and this is maybe a small step better I think. But still not going to beat more expensive sets though. (like i think my smabat proto 1.0 and ER4XR still has better technicalities) Haven't heard the DQ6 though, and gave away my ZSX long ago, so can't compare.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your first impressions.  I hope that I will not perceive the bass part as quantitatively insufficient, because at the NRA I perceive it that way.  The quantity of bass at ZEX is fine in my opinion, only higher bass affects lower mids more than desired.


----------



## r31ya

axhng said:


> Still very early on since I just got them, but will try to share some more impressions so far since the promo price is still active as of this post it seems.
> 
> Bass quantity to me seems maybe slightly lower than the NRA/ZEX in the mid bass region. especially in the BL03 which has a lot of it. But it's relatively tight sounding and well controlled to me. Nice enough thump when the track calls for it, and nice enough texture too. Soundstage is average to me, but to me, most IEMs are more or less in that category for me, and will always lose to earbuds.  Instrument separation and detail retrieval I think is above average for the price, and if you got it at the 22USD price, it's even more value for money in that regard I guess. The ZEX and NRA i felt already punch above their price for detail retrieval, and this is maybe a small step better I think. But still not going to beat more expensive sets though. (like i think my smabat proto 1.0 and ER4XR still has better technicalities) Haven't heard the DQ6 though, and gave away my ZSX long ago, so can't compare.
> 
> ...


Its shaping up to be pretty good.
its good for the price, better quality bass tough less in quantity, better mids (YAAY), still a bit thin vocal (aaah), similar treble to nra.

I was wondering how this one will goes, since with EDC and CRA, it seems KZ is trying out different tuning.
If its considered better than Wave, or the TA2. Seems, ZEX Pro is a $22 (+17% tax) well spent. still hoping mine will arrive before christmas


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## axhng

Insider K said:


> Thank you for a more detailed write up. I had a feeling that it is going to lean more on neutral V shape or relaxed tune, while I am a fan of more energetic tune and one could say more bass head territory, I ordered the set anyways... will see. Upcoming Blon BL-07 might be something more interesting.
> 
> PS. what is that BTR5 lookalike thing from Ugreen?


I definitely wouldn't call it too relaxed or neutral V though. It doesn't have bass quantity like the BL03 or CA16 Pro, but there is a good amount of sub-bass to me which give it a nice punch, just that the bass seems tighter, which might be why there is less mid/upper bass? also still got more than enough upper mids and treble energy. So to me it's still a fun listen, but then I tend to prioritise bass quality over bass quantity, so am fine with less bass. But anyway, at 22USD on aliexpress with the promo now (according to CCA twitter seems to be the last day too) it's still very good value for money imo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The UGREEN thing is basically a bluetooth DAC AMP much like the BTR5, but it's more like the uBTR I guess in terms of price. Works as a regular DAC when plugged directly into my devices too. Bought it since it was cheap (around 30USD) on local e-commerce site. Has a relatively decent battery size, built-in clip, supports up to aptx HD, and supposedly using CS43131 DAC. Not as powerful as my JCALLY JM10 (with BHD firmware) with the same chip i think, so probably slightly different implementation? not too familiar with it. But works well enough on the go. 



4ceratops said:


> Thank you for sharing your first impressions.  I hope that I will not perceive the bass part as quantitatively insufficient, because at the NRA I perceive it that way.  The quantity of bass at ZEX is fine in my opinion, only higher bass affects lower mids more than desired.


In this case I think the ZEX Pro is more sub-bassy while the NRA is more mid-bassy and a tiny bit slower I think. So to me I hear the bass on the NRA a bit more. There is always the option to go for tips that can warm up the sound a bit more. I think sony MH755 sort of does that for me.  



r31ya said:


> Its shaping up to be pretty good.
> its good for the price, better quality bass tough less in quantity, better mids (YAAY), still a bit thin vocal (aaah), similar treble to nra.
> 
> I was wondering how this one will goes, since with EDC and CRA, it seems KZ is trying out different tuning.
> If its considered better than Wave, or the TA2. Seems, ZEX Pro is a $22 (+17% tax) well spent. still hoping mine will arrive before christmas


Indeed, but it's just slightly thin for my preference, but I don't think they're too thin still. Treble is a bit tamer compared to NRA I think, since I find the NRA to be a bit more prone to sibilance (a bit less 5kHz too i think). Just that the characteristic (lack of a better word) of that treble just kinda seem similar. But YMMV of course. I've heard folks who enjoy the TA2 and Wave too. Just that for me not fond of both of them at all.  It's definitely good value to me at least. It's not perfect, and there are things I wished could be better for sure, but it does a lot of things right for my preference. But the CRA will be interesting to see for sure.


----------



## unifutomaki

axhng said:


> enjoy the TA2 and Wave


Wave? How is it possible to enjoy that one 🤣🤣


----------



## axhng

unifutomaki said:


> Wave? How is it possible to enjoy that one 🤣🤣


 I've seen a few reviews that were relatively positive on the Wave, or at least not negative, which makes me wonder if I'm just unable to get a fit that's good enough since the nozzle is quite thick, which could be a reason why I can't enjoy those at all? There some aspects that I kinda find was okay on that set, though the relatively neutral bass really doesn't do the metallic timbre any favour.


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## r31ya (Nov 30, 2021)

axhng said:


> Indeed, but it's just slightly thin for my preference, but I don't think they're too thin still. Treble is a bit tamer compared to NRA I think, since I find the NRA to be a bit more prone to sibilance (a bit less 5kHz too i think). Just that the characteristic (lack of a better word) of that treble just kinda seem similar. But YMMV of course. I've heard folks who enjoy the TA2 and Wave too. Just that for me not fond of both of them at all.  It's definitely good value to me at least. It's not perfect, and there are things I wished could be better for sure, but it does a lot of things right for my preference. But the CRA will be interesting to see for sure.


TRN nails the TA1. i didn't buy it because at the time i was saving for my current HE400i (2020).
I didn't remember the details, but When TA2 released, i was in the market to find sub $100 IEMs and TRN TA2 is definitely on my radar.
I was like, "Improved TA1 with extra knowles BA". It should be awesome~!

and they didn't quite stick the landing.
and i ended buying four month old secondhand Aria instead and loved it.
and i promises myself to not buy another iem for at least till next year.
and i saw KZ ZEX Pro at $22...


----------



## Insider K

axhng said:


> I definitely wouldn't call it too relaxed or neutral V though. It doesn't have bass quantity like the BL03 or CA16 Pro, but there is a good amount of sub-bass to me which give it a nice punch, just that the bass seems tighter, which might be why there is less mid/upper bass? also still got more than enough upper mids and treble energy. So to me it's still a fun listen, but then I tend to prioritise bass quality over bass quantity, so am fine with less bass. But anyway, at 22USD on aliexpress with the promo now (according to CCA twitter seems to be the last day too) it's still very good value for money imo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Punchy sub-bass, and quality tighter bass in general sounds quite sublime. I got mine for ~25 Euros, will take a while to get here I guess, hopefully before Christmas holidays.
I liked BL-03 quite a bit at first, because of the bass and energy, I still do, but after trying BL-01 I prefer them over BL-03. Still kind of waiting for the actual BL-03 successor or a step up, maybe BL-07 will be something interesting.

Forgot to ask, did you try EQ with ZEX Pro, does it respond well to EQ?


axhng said:


> The UGREEN thing is basically a bluetooth DAC AMP much like the BTR5, but it's more like the uBTR I guess in terms of price. Works as a regular DAC when plugged directly into my devices too. Bought it since it was cheap (around 30USD) on local e-commerce site. Has a relatively decent battery size, built-in clip, supports up to aptx HD, and supposedly using CS43131 DAC. Not as powerful as my JCALLY JM10 (with BHD firmware) with the same chip i think, so probably slightly different implementation? not too familiar with it. But works well enough on the go.


Ah awesome, a more budget option, specially after BTR5 price jumped quite a bit after 2021 version. Never heard of JCALLY JM10, wonder how does it compare to something like Ibasso DC05 or TempoTec Sonata E35/E44.


----------



## ChristianM

axhng said:


> Just got the ZEX Pro, and after a quick listen, definitely better than the ZEX for me. Sounds more balanced to me with less bass quantity, and bass sounds tighter and less warm (even compared to NRA I think). Prefer the mid range tuning a lot more too, I'm not the biggest fan of the earlier bump at around 2kHz like on the ZEX, NRA, CA16 Pro, since to me they sound less natural because they bring the 1-1.5kHz up a bit too. So some vocals end up sounding a bit nasally to me. The ZEX Pro has that gain at around 3kHz which sounds more pleasing for my ears. So definitely liking the mids on these more. Nothing seems really off or what for now, but will need to spend more time with them for sure, but so far so good. Recently tried the TKZK Wave which is around the same price, and I like these so much more. Not sure if it was my set or what, but the metallic timbre wasn't fun to listen to, especially since it's pretty neutral in bass too, so I think it makes that stand out more to me.
> 
> Edit: forgot to mention the other stuff. Fit is pretty much perfect for my ears. Better than ZEX/NRA, and CA16 Pro. They are using translucent white starline tips. Cable is same as ZEX/NRA/CA16Pro.


Hi, since you don't have ZSX anymore, do you have ZAX to compare ZEX Pro sound difference? I have ZSX and don't know if I should buy ZEX Pro or not. I read that ZAX sound better than ZSX but ZAX is out of my budget right now. Thanks


----------



## Kumonomukou

axhng said:


> Still very early on since I just got them, but will try to share some more impressions so far since the promo price is still active as of this post it seems.
> 
> Bass quantity to me seems maybe slightly lower than the NRA/ZEX in the mid bass region. especially in the BL03 which has a lot of it. But it's relatively tight sounding and well controlled to me. Nice enough thump when the track calls for it, and nice enough texture too. Soundstage is average to me, but to me, most IEMs are more or less in that category for me, and will always lose to earbuds.  Instrument separation and detail retrieval I think is above average for the price, and if you got it at the 22USD price, it's even more value for money in that regard I guess. The ZEX and NRA i felt already punch above their price for detail retrieval, and this is maybe a small step better I think. But still not going to beat more expensive sets though. (like i think my smabat proto 1.0 and ER4XR still has better technicalities) Haven't heard the DQ6 though, and gave away my ZSX long ago, so can't compare.
> 
> ...



Thank you for informative impression! The comparison on Proto and ER4XR are particular helpful. As the collection gets bigger, we're mostly looking for TD than just a fresh set of downs.



SomeEntityThing said:


> So back on 11.11 I ended up buying an IEM Lucky Bag from a certain AliExpress store that went for roughly $13 CDN... just to treat myself a little bit along with some foam tips to replace my dried up collection.
> 
> I ended up getting something called the QKZ ZAX 2, QKZ's latest model from November. The reason why I'm even talking about this in this thread is because I still don't fully understand the relationship between QKZ and KZ but I'm guessing QKZ is some kinda sister company like CCA or the like. Kinda weird naming scheme though since the KZ ZAX boasts a 1DD + 7BA setup vs the QKZ ZAX 2's 1DD, and the ZAX 2 has a faceplate more akin to the KZ ZEX. Turns out these QKZs were going for around $7 CDN during Black Friday on AliExpress. Darn. But hey, that's just the way luck is, eh? The ZAX 2 are the cheapest properly functioning IEMs I've got. Considering my next step up is the DT9, I'm not sure how fair comparisons I may make would be. I musn't expect so much... here's my small impressions after roughly 4-ish days of listening.
> 
> ...


QKZ & KZ were connected at some point, then they sort of worked as two divisions, which stated on QKZ official sites. As crazy as it sounds, QKZ pretty much work as a budget version of KZ... Same shell, and potentially simpler/cheaper drivers.

I was looking at some of their newly released IEMs, didn't buy them but ultimately walked away with 4 sets of QKZ-X adapters (Slightly better looking version of TRN BT20), Too good deal to pass up for a total of 20-ish bucks.


----------



## evasb

It is strange that, if they are related, KZ doesn't want to be associated with QKZ. KZ and QKZ uses different accessories, in taobao QKZ doesn't sell KZ or vice-versa (like CCA and G. K). What I know is that KZ has a capital tie-up with TRN. Some years ago, I remember that someone asked ThePhonograph (an old chifi review/sales site) editor if KZ was related to QKZ, and he/she said that they are unrelated.

But who knows, maybe QKZ is a KZ spin-off or whatever.


----------



## RikudouGoku

evasb said:


> It is strange that, if they are related, KZ doesn't want to be associated with QKZ. KZ and QKZ uses different accessories, in taobao QKZ doesn't sell KZ or vice-versa (like CCA and G. K). What I know is that KZ has a capital tie-up with TRN. Some years ago, I remember that someone asked ThePhonograph (an old chifi review/sales site) editor if KZ is related to QKZ, and he/she said that they are unrelated.
> 
> But who knows, maybe QKZ is a KZ spin-off or whatever.


Yes, I am not so sure if QKZ is related to KZ. 

They did contact me (regarding the ZEX Pro) and told me that CCA and GK are their sister brands, no mentions on QKZ.


----------



## SomeEntityThing

Kumonomukou said:


> QKZ & KZ were connected at some point, then they sort of worked as two divisions, which stated on QKZ official sites. As crazy as it sounds, QKZ pretty much work as a budget version of KZ... Same shell, and potentially simpler/cheaper drivers.
> 
> I was looking at some of their newly released IEMs, didn't buy them but ultimately walked away with 4 sets of QKZ-X adapters (Slightly better looking version of TRN BT20), Too good deal to pass up for a total of 20-ish bucks.





evasb said:


> It is strange that, if they are related, KZ doesn't want to be associated with QKZ. KZ and QKZ uses different accessories, in taobao QKZ doesn't sell KZ or vice-versa (like CCA and G. K). What I know is that KZ has a capital tie-up with TRN. Some years ago, I remember that someone asked ThePhonograph (an old chifi review/sales site) editor if KZ was related to QKZ, and he/she said that they are unrelated.
> 
> But who knows, maybe QKZ is a KZ spin-off or whatever.





RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, I am not so sure if QKZ is related to KZ.
> 
> They did contact me (regarding the ZEX Pro) and told me that CCA and GK are their sister brands, no mentions on QKZ.


I recall that QKZ stands for "Quality Knowledge Zenith" so I was thinking there is likely _some_ kind of relationship between the two companies, but maybe not? Kind of strange imo to straight up use KZ's entire name in their own though...


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## axhng (Nov 30, 2021)

r31ya said:


> TRN nails the TA1. i didn't buy it because at the time i was saving for my current HE400i (2020).
> I didn't remember the details, but When TA2 released, i was in the market to find sub $100 IEMs and TRN TA2 is definitely on my radar.
> I was like, "Improved TA1 with extra knowles BA". It should be awesome~!
> 
> ...


Yeah, I quite like the TA1 despite some of its flaws. It didn't really play nice with some genres, but for certain genres like Jpop, it was still quite enjoyable. TA2 I feel like just didn't hit the mark at all for me.  A familiar story for a lot of us here. It's nice to see a lot of nice sets at the budget price range, but then while there are improvements for sure, a lot of them end up just being "good for the price", and you'll still get a better step up by just going up the price bracket. Though there are stuff in higher price range that misses the mark too. 



Insider K said:


> Punchy sub-bass, and quality tighter bass in general sounds quite sublime. I got mine for ~25 Euros, will take a while to get here I guess, hopefully before Christmas holidays.
> I liked BL-03 quite a bit at first, because of the bass and energy, I still do, but after trying BL-01 I prefer them over BL-03. Still kind of waiting for the actual BL-03 successor or a step up, maybe BL-07 will be something interesting.
> 
> Forgot to ask, did you try EQ with ZEX Pro, does it respond well to EQ?
> ...


Same here. For me I got the BL03 pretty early on and like it for a while, but then as I tried more stuff and figure out my preference, I rarely use it much anymore. I feel like the BL-Max is probably a small step up from the 03 in terms of tuning (technical performance is still somewhat meh) to me, but something like the BL-Mini was just weird (fit is the best I've tried from them though). At this point, not holding my breath for their products.

it did try a bit of EQ to see if i can warm up the sound a little (more mid bass, less 8k upper treble) and it did respond well without messing up everything else I liked about the sound. but that's just a few dB of tweaks since the default tuning is kinda decent for my preference already.

Not too sure about those since I haven't really tried them, and haven't really tried enough DAC AMPs too. Though the TempoTec stuff are pretty well reviewed. But for JCALLY JM10 at least I wouldn't recommend them to folks either unless they are willing to flash the firmware to the Sonata BHD one to get more power. It'll be somewhat okay for easy to drive stuff with lower impedance, but for stuff that are lower impedance but will benefit from having more power like Tanya, and to a smaller extend BL03, having the BHD firmware helps a ton since the output will be fixed at a higher amount instead of adjusting based on impedance. 



ChristianM said:


> Hi, since you don't have ZSX anymore, do you have ZAX to compare ZEX Pro sound difference? I have ZSX and don't know if I should buy ZEX Pro or not. I read that ZAX sound better than ZSX but ZAX is out of my budget right now. Thanks


Unfortunately have not tried the ZAX.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

I ordered the ZEX Pro. Still waiting for it to be sent out. Last day tomorrow before the order gets cancelled.  What's people opinion of the official KZ site on aliexpress.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I ordered the ZEX Pro. Still waiting for it to be sent out. Last day tomorrow before the order gets cancelled.  What's people opinion of the official KZ site on aliexpress.


Pretty good store. Never had a problem with them.


----------



## r31ya

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I ordered the ZEX Pro. Still waiting for it to be sent out. Last day tomorrow before the order gets cancelled.  What's people opinion of the official KZ site on aliexpress.


Mine took like three days before it got shipped.
Still on route now.


----------



## Aparker2005

Got the cra ordered. I may have missed it, but anyone know around when they're shipping?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, damn, that bass shelf looks amazing. Treble looks similar to the TForce Yuan Li, very atypical of KZ. Lots of potential just from the graph.


----------



## r31ya

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, damn, that bass shelf looks amazing. Treble looks similar to the TForce Yuan Li, very atypical of KZ. Lots of potential just from the graph.


It cut down the bass bloat that crin complained and the treble is following neutral target?


----------



## Aevum

the whole point of the ZEX is that they used a more balanced tunning and its still slightly bloated, im not very happy to see that bass shelf, also the armature was to reinforce the mid and top range, something i see that was not done, actually the opposide was done. 

the ZEX Pro seem like a return to the old KZ tunning. its ok but it wont be getting any prizes.


----------



## dharmasteve

Aevum said:


> the whole point of the ZEX is that they used a more balanced tunning and its still slightly bloated, im not very happy to see that bass shelf, also the armature was to reinforce the mid and top range, something i see that was not done, actually the opposide was done.
> 
> the ZEX Pro seem like a return to the old KZ tunning. its ok but it wont be getting any prizes.


That's disappointing. Have you burned them in a little yet? The Zex Pro's get well reviewed so far.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Aevum said:


> the ZEX Pro seem like a return to the old KZ tunning. its ok but it wont be getting any prizes.





Doesnt look anything like the old KZ tuning.


----------



## evasb

That's why I love Chifi. These unexpected turnarounds every month are making 2021 one of the best years ever in this segment.


----------



## Wgibson

Ha, this post aged well:



Wgibson said:


> I do think targeting the same response curve for everything is a little tedious with new products coming out that often. Make some bass cannons, try for a more prevalent midrange, especially with the "hit or miss" nature of these things, mix it up a bit...


----------



## voicemaster

evasb said:


> That's why I love Chifi. These unexpected turnarounds every month are making 2021 one of the best years ever in this segment.


I second that. This year, I have branched out to other Chifi brands like Moondrop, TinHifi, 7Hz, Tripowin and soon Fiio. They all have been fantastic and some of them are exceedingly awesome (Kato and Timeless). Funny thing is the more I went away from KZ/CCA, the more I appreciate single driver IEMs instead of going multiple same or different drivers combination. Also, under $100 segment IEMs are very competitive right now. TinHifi T3+, Aria and Mele are tuned really well and they are easily exceeding their value.


----------



## Keller1

Anyone got the T10s? Those look quite nice.


----------



## XerusKun (Dec 1, 2021)

Keller1 said:


> Anyone got the T10s? Those look quite nice.


Me, the build quality is quite nice, however it only has SBC/AAC codec which is quite a bummer since it is somehow, sounds enjoyable in wired mode. Transparency mode is quite nice too.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 1, 2021)

one impression video have gone up in Youtube


----



> Me, the build quality is quite nice, however it only has SBC/AAC codec which is quite a bummer since it is somehow, sounds enjoyable in wired mode. Transparency mode is quite nice too.


I guess we'll wait for KZ T10s Pro with QC3040 and APTX-HD.


----------



## riodgarp

r31ya said:


> Is the iem tip/lip is the same narrow one from Dq6?
> 
> Hows the imaging and soundstage? The shell looks big from the image





axhng said:


> not sure about that since I don't have the DQ6. shell size is not that big to me. about the same as ZEX actually, but shape is more like KZ Z1. Smaller and more comfortable than the CA16 Pro. Haven't had enough time to say for sure. Got busy with other stuff and had to stop listening.



the DQ6 is exactly same shape as ZEX


----------



## r31ya (Dec 2, 2021)

riodgarp said:


> the DQ6 is exactly same shape as ZEX


There a unbox video and it being compared to ZAS which have the new narrow eartip/lip.
ZEX Pro is noticeably fatter.
---
Zex pro left, ZAS right.





Zex pro left - DQ6 right.



Love the new tip, the dq6 tips is on thinner side which makes it a bit loose to most of my eartips sets.
---




Interesting comparison on the graph.


----------



## voicemaster

It is funny how KZ can do 180 degree on their product. The AZ09 was pretty terrible at least in my own experience. Then came AZ09 pro and it completely better in every aspects from the original AZ09. Compared to my TRN BT30, the AZ09 pro has probably the closest performance to wired connection. The BT30 while sufficient for most IEMs, make the sound a bit flat especially the bass. With the AZ09 pro, it has plenty of power and you can even turn on "full power mode" for an even more louder volume. At the same volume level as BT30, the AZ09 pro produces just slightly less bass than wired connection. I highly recommend the AZ09 pro for anyone who wants to try wireless connection for their IEM.

Modded AZ09 pro paired with TinHifi T3 plus.


----------



## ChristianM

KZ ZEX PRO from Paulwasabii


----------



## RikudouGoku

There is an official KZ discord server now: 
https://discord.com/invite/R6ZKvs2ejT


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ChristianM said:


> KZ ZEX PRO from Paulwasabii




nice review @paulwasabii   really looking forward to seeing these show up now.


----------



## evasb

Why nobody seems to care about the fact that ZEX Pro is the first KZ tribrid anymore???


----------



## InvisibleInk

evasb said:


> Why nobody seems to care about the fact that ZEX Pro is the first KZ tribrid anymore???



It's historic!


----------



## r31ya

evasb said:


> Why nobody seems to care about the fact that ZEX Pro is the first KZ tribrid anymore???


We kinda expect KZ going tribid, eventually...
KZ going Harman/neutral is the bigger news.


----------



## baskingshark

evasb said:


> Why nobody seems to care about the fact that ZEX Pro is the first KZ tribrid anymore???



Well TBH driver count, driver brand and driver types are not as important as good tuning and implementation.

And actually I wouldn't consider the ZEX Pro to be a true tribid as the EST inside is actually an electret rather than a true electrostatic driver. The electrets are already pre-charged, but they theoretically can lose their charge over time and may be rendered inoperable once the charges are depleted; compared to a true electrostatic set (eg something like the Shure KSE1500 or STAX SR series), which have their own energizer amp or high voltage amplifier to drive them.

Sorry for being cynical, but there is probably an element of marketing gimmick involved. Like last year was the year of the beryllium hypetrain, I've heard some well implemented beryllium drivers, but some others sound worse than conventional drivers! These few months seems to have a hype for "electrostatic" drivers, most of which are magnetostatics or electrets at the budget segment.


----------



## lushmelody

If those wannabe ESTs actually improve treble at least. I just hope it to sound as good as the similar tuning IEMs (which rn are 4 times or more the price)

The best thing now imo is KZ looking for consumer feedback and consumer based products while also doing tuning variety. So much potential


----------



## ChristianM

baskingshark said:


> The electrets are already pre-charged, but they theoretically can lose their charge over time and may be rendered inoperable once the charges are depleted;


Your post stopping me to buy zex pro and I just sold my zsx and want a new IEM. how much longer this IEM or it's driver will last if you only use it once a week or so?


----------



## G777

ChristianM said:


> Your post stopping me to buy zex pro and I just sold my zsx and want a new IEM. how much longer this IEM or it's driver will last if you only use it once a week or so?


I think they aren't even electrets, since they are using magnets. For what it's worth, the Sonion "electrostatic" drivers use a pre-charged gold sheet.


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> Well TBH driver count, driver brand and driver types are not as important as good tuning and implementation.
> 
> And actually I wouldn't consider the ZEX Pro to be a true tribid as the EST inside is actually an electret rather than a true electrostatic driver. The electrets are already pre-charged, but they theoretically can lose their charge over time and may be rendered inoperable once the charges are depleted; compared to a true electrostatic set (eg something like the Shure KSE1500 or STAX SR series), which have their own energizer amp or high voltage amplifier to drive them.
> 
> Sorry for being cynical, but there is probably an element of marketing gimmick involved. Like last year was the year of the beryllium hypetrain, I've heard some well implemented beryllium drivers, but some others sound worse than conventional drivers! These few months seems to have a hype for "electrostatic" drivers, most of which are magnetostatics or electrets at the budget segment.


Actually, never mind the fact that there isn’t a true electrostatic driver (the kind that requires an energizer) in the KZ, it probably isn’t even an electret. At best it is some kind of magnetostat driver but really who’s to say there isn’t some kind of dynamic driver hanging out in there 😂

My ZEX Pro should arrive on Monday; the question is does it actually sound any better or worth listening to than my Pioneer CH3  we’ll see


----------



## voicemaster

I didn't realize that I ordered the rose gold color ZEX pro and it is only been released this December.


----------



## ChristianM

Can anybody tell me which one of them will be less sibilant? I like the silver/blue but it has more silver than copper. I wanna order one today with zex pro. thanks

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...0ed-b02b-482e-9d86-18d84dadbfff-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000020729500344"%7D

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...0b4-727a-4bf3-a7e2-61bd3d2f866c-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000020729734966"%7D


----------



## unifutomaki

ChristianM said:


> Can anybody tell me which one of them will be less sibilant? I like the silver/blue but it has more silver than copper. I wanna order one today with zex pro. thanks


Go with the one you like the look of better


----------



## baskingshark

ChristianM said:


> Your post stopping me to buy zex pro and I just sold my zsx and want a new IEM. how much longer this IEM or it's driver will last if you only use it once a week or so?



No need to worry, assuming it is an "electret" that KZ is using here, I have some Sonion electret sets that are still going strong after a few months of usage. This is just in theory, I think they can last for years with daily use.

More importantly, a new KZ pokemon (with a "Pro" moniker) will be released in a week's time, and will arrive in the mail box long before the electrets die. Maybe it might be even a "Pro" version of that Pro release.


----------



## 4ceratops

ChristianM said:


> Can anybody tell me which one of them will be less sibilant? I like the silver/blue but it has more silver than copper. I wanna order one today with zex pro. thanks
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002459274820.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.54a461a4zPAxNP&algo_pvid=41a590ed-b02b-482e-9d86-18d84dadbfff&algo_exp_id=41a590ed-b02b-482e-9d86-18d84dadbfff-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000020729500344"%7D
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002459419928.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2d737590i3twpN&algo_pvid=9d5ef0b4-727a-4bf3-a7e2-61bd3d2f866c&algo_exp_id=9d5ef0b4-727a-4bf3-a7e2-61bd3d2f866c-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000020729734966"%7D


If I may recommend, sibilance is a solution when choosing IEMs, not when choosing a cable whose impact is minimal, almost zero.


----------



## ChristianM

baskingshark said:


> No need to worry, assuming it is an "electret" that KZ is using here, I have some Sonion electret sets that are still going strong after a few months of usage. This is just in theory, I think they can last for years with daily use.
> 
> More importantly, a new KZ pokemon (with a "Pro" moniker) will be released in a week's time, and will arrive in the mail box long before the electrets die. Maybe it might be even a "Pro" version of that Pro release.


Alright thanks for reply,
Sorry but what is this "KZ pokemon" thing?


----------



## ChristianM

4ceratops said:


> If I may recommend, sibilance is a solution when choosing IEMs, not when choosing a cable whose impact is minimal, almost zero.


Yeah I agree with you on choosing IEMs but cables does have some impact over stock cables (KZ stock cables), I had KZ gold/silver mixed cable which I gave away was better than stock brown cable in terms of sound quality.


----------



## unifutomaki

ChristianM said:


> Alright thanks for reply,
> Sorry but what is this "KZ pokemon" thing?


It’s the idea that KZ constantly pops out new IEMs anyway, and these new IEMs  will probably be as good as or better than what they have now, so the ZEX Pro will become obsolete long before it actually dies (hopefully anyway)


----------



## r31ya (Dec 3, 2021)

New kz zex pro review,


mostly resonate what paul said in his early impression vids.
apparently he prefer it over, Wave, Tin t2+, TA1+2, Robin, and BLmax. which is pretty huge compliment.


----------



## r31ya

unifutomaki said:


> It’s the idea that KZ constantly pops out new IEMs anyway, and these new IEMs  will probably be as good as or better than what they have now, so the ZEX Pro will become obsolete long before it actually dies (hopefully anyway)


Dude that era with KZ ZSR and others. it was like new KZ every week.


----------



## baskingshark

ChristianM said:


> Alright thanks for reply,
> Sorry but what is this "KZ pokemon" thing?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kno...essions-thread.698148/page-3656#post-16291647


----------



## Atek2019

r31ya said:


> New kz zex pro review,
> 
> 
> mostly resonate what paul said in his early impression vids.
> apparently he prefer it over, Wave, Tin t2+, TA1+2, Robin, and BLmax. which is pretty huge compliment.



but everybody complain about the lack of mid bass


----------



## InvisibleInk

I like my ZEX so much, I can afford to wait until a subsequent release title "ZEX Pro XXX" is released in a few months. Cheers!


----------



## droido256

Well just impulse bought the AST, the allure of 12 drivers crammed into each ear was too much to resist 😪. Hopefully it sounds good and holds up well. Be interesting to AB them with the Tape Pro (which sounds pretty good to me, now just hope they hold up). I wonder what the “improved” drivers are besides silver to black casings.


----------



## lushmelody

droido256 said:


> Well just impulse bought the AST, the allure of 12 drivers crammed into each ear was too much to resist 😪. Hopefully it sounds good and holds up well. Be interesting to AB them with the Tape Pro (which sounds pretty good to me, now just hope they hold up). I wonder what the “improved” drivers are besides silver to black casings.


Welcome to the club. If you like bassy and thick sound (but meh treble and technicalities) it will bring joy


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> Well TBH driver count, driver brand and driver types are not as important as good tuning and implementation.
> 
> And actually I wouldn't consider the ZEX Pro to be a true tribid as the EST inside is actually an electret rather than a true electrostatic driver. The electrets are already pre-charged, but they theoretically can lose their charge over time and may be rendered inoperable once the charges are depleted; compared to a true electrostatic set (eg something like the Shure KSE1500 or STAX SR series), which have their own energizer amp or high voltage amplifier to drive them.
> 
> Sorry for being cynical, but there is probably an element of marketing gimmick involved. Like last year was the year of the beryllium hypetrain, I've heard some well implemented beryllium drivers, but some others sound worse than conventional drivers! These few months seems to have a hype for "electrostatic" drivers, most of which are magnetostatics or electrets at the budget segment.


Well, with that criteria, "true" tribrids dont exist.

Those Sonion EST´s are electrets. 



lushmelody said:


> If those wannabe ESTs actually improve treble at least. I just hope it to sound as good as the similar tuning IEMs (which rn are 4 times or more the price)
> 
> The best thing now imo is KZ looking for consumer feedback and consumer based products while also doing tuning variety. So much potential


Tuning matters more. There is a reason why stuff like the Z1R and U12T are as good as they are without those ESTs.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

How long does shipping take from china to the UK. Mine shipped 2 days ago, when can i expect it?  Before Christmas?


----------



## 4ceratops

lushmelody said:


> Welcome to the club. If you like bassy and thick sound (but meh treble and technicalities) it will bring j


The best decent description of AST sound, I probably wouldn't be able to do it without occasional vulgarities 😁


----------



## PhonoPhi

lushmelody said:


> Welcome to the club. If you like bassy and thick sound (but meh treble and technicalities) it will bring joy


Not so true if you have brighter sources - E1DA SG3 would be one, Z4 as well.


----------



## 4ceratops

Capo Dei Capi said:


> How long does shipping take from china to the UK. Mine shipped 2 days ago, when can i expect it?  Before Christmas?


If you ordered from Ali and chose standard delivery, I probably wouldn't expect that much before Christmas.


----------



## InvisibleInk

droido256 said:


> Well just impulse bought the AST, the allure of 12 drivers crammed into each ear was too much to resist 😪. Hopefully it sounds good and holds up well. Be interesting to AB them with the Tape Pro (which sounds pretty good to me, now just hope they hold up). I wonder what the “improved” drivers are besides silver to black casings.


With KZ two’s company, three’s a crowd, five’s a committee, and twelve is a rioting mob.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

4ceratops said:


> If you ordered from Ali and chose standard delivery, I probably wouldn't expect that much before Christmas.


Standard shipping was all that was offered when i ordered.


----------



## 4ceratops

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Standard shipping was all that was offered when i ordered.


It takes an average of about 3 to 5 weeks from China to Slovakia.  I keep my fingers crossed if it's a Christmas present.


----------



## droido256

lushmelody said:


> Welcome to the club. If you like bassy and thick sound (but meh treble and technicalities) it will bring joy


Lol never used a BA headphone that was bassy and thick….. this should be interesting


----------



## droido256

InvisibleInk said:


> With KZ two’s company, three’s a crowd, five’s a committee, and twelve is a rioting mob.


Def intrigued about 12 speakers in my ear lol


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

4ceratops said:


> It takes an average of about 3 to 5 weeks from China to Slovakia.  I keep my fingers crossed if it's a Christmas present.


Thanks bro.


----------



## droido256

droido256 said:


> Def intrigued about 12 speakers in my ear lol


Well my other chifi BA set isn’t a KZ (chifi is confusing who’s making what lol) a KB10, which sounds pretty damn good (unearthed them from under my archery rubble 🙄, still works and hell sounds pretty good, sooooo guess never had a KZ) so the AST will be a new adventure.


----------



## PhonoPhi

droido256 said:


> Well my other chifi BA set isn’t a KZ (chifi is confusing who’s making what lol) a KB10, which sounds pretty damn good (unearthed them from under my archery rubble 🙄, still works and hell sounds pretty good, sooooo guess never had a KZ) so the AST will be a new adventure.


KB10 are actually KZ-ish, CCA A10 twin, specifically.
To many, KB10/A10 are treble murdering, I love them for strings. AST would be very complementary, quite different, very un-KZ by contrast


----------



## droido256

PhonoPhi said:


> KB10 are actually KZ-ish, CCA A10 twin, specifically.
> To many, KB10/A10 are treble murdering, I love them for strings. AST would be very complementary, quite different, very un-KZ by contrast


Treble murdering? Like lacking treble, or do you mean treble overkill, the kb10 is very bright


----------



## Coyro

Capo Dei Capi said:


> How long does shipping take from china to the UK. Mine shipped 2 days ago, when can i expect it?  Before Christmas?


It depends. Once I got the standard shipment in 6 days to UKraine, for me logistics goes mostly China -> Latvia/Germany/Poland -> Ukraine. 

It's usually quite good to get something in 2-3 weeks, a tiny miracle to get something in a week, quite possible to get something after a month. Or two. Or never at all.
The big events usually exacerbate the waiting times.


----------



## PhonoPhi

droido256 said:


> Treble murdering? Like lacking treble, or do you mean treble overkill, the kb10 is very bright


Treble overkill that is - just ask @RikudouGoku about his opinion on TP10 (another incarnation of KB10/A10).
A10 were my testing pair for the cables - very sensitive: treble-rich, all-BAs and fairly low impedance of 14-15 Ohm.


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> Treble overkill that is - just ask @RikudouGoku about his opinion on TP10 (another incarnation of KB10/A10).
> A10 were my testing pair for the cables - very sensitive: treble-rich, all-BAs and fairly low impedance of 14-15 Ohm.


uhhh, that abomination got banished into the depths of the abyss as soon as I tried it.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 4, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> uhhh, that abomination got banished into the depths of the abyss as soon as I tried it.


Love your power of expression!
To me, they are indispensable pair for strings, even with brighter sources, but understandably for any "electronic" or highly percussive - so true


----------



## 4ceratops

droido256 said:


> Treble murdering? Like lacking treble, or do you mean treble overkill, the kb10 is very bright


In my opinion AST is lacking everything except bass: clear mids, spark, layering, etc...  1 DD Aria or Smabat Proto (with Beryllium coated upgrade driver) are from different universe compared to AST. I have more IEM up to € 50, which bring a much more experience than this other failed multi multi multi BA from KZ.


----------



## r31ya

Atek2019 said:


> but everybody complain about the lack of mid bass


Most goes bass quantity went down, bass quality went up. 
depend on how low the quantity is, but as long at least its just above neutral, i'll be happy.
Also per paulwasabi words, depend which iem you come from before trying this, you could feel lack of bass or more natural bass.


----------



## XerusKun

r31ya said:


> Most goes bass quantity went down, bass quality went up.
> depend on how low the quantity is, but as long at least its just above neutral, i'll be happy.
> Also per paulwasabi words, depend which iem you come from before trying this, you could feel lack of bass or more natural bass.


I came from Heart Mirror and CCA CA16 Pro, and I think ZEX Pro bass is just perfect for me. It has more quality than the ZEX and CA16 Pro while having more quantity than HM.


----------



## XerusKun

Atek2019 said:


> but everybody complain about the lack of mid bass


I also have the OG ZEX I can confirm that the ZEX Pro lacks in the midbass department and why some people prefer the ZEX over the Pro. However, unlike the OG version, ZEX Pro will give you bass texture and airiness in the vocals instead which is a win in my book.


----------



## XerusKun

I think what the ZEX Pro nails the most, is the macrodetails, like its unreal for KZ to be this detailed and nuanced. Every instruments carry enough noteweight while circling around the wide stage, like what? Imaging is also excellent in my opinion. Is this even KZ? I can also confirm that ZEX Pro is the antithesis of CCA CA16 Pro, like what Andy said.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 3, 2021)

XerusKun said:


> I also have the OG ZEX I can confirm that the ZEX Pro lacks in the midbass department and why some people prefer the ZEX over the Pro. However, unlike the OG version, ZEX Pro will give you bass texture and airiness in the vocals instead which is a win in my book.


One thing i didn't particularly fond of about KZ ZS10 Pro back then is the high yet textureless bass.
Especially at the time, i audition it against TFZ King series who have good quality bass (and slightly higher price bracket).

I'd prefer slightly above neutral good textured bass over higher quantity lesser quality bass which reminds me of many cheap bad iems
and when it comes to amount, worse come to worst, i could eq to get more quantity. can't do that with lack of quality.
---
My ZEX Pro is still in the middle of f*cking sea... hopefully comes to me before christmas.


----------



## ChristianM

XerusKun said:


> I think what the ZEX Pro nails the most, is the macrodetails, like its unreal for KZ to be this detailed and nuanced. Every instruments carry enough noteweight while circling around the wide stage, like what? Imaging is also excellent in my opinion. Is this even KZ? I can also confirm that ZEX Pro is the antithesis of CCA CA16 Pro, like what Andy said.


You're listening with stock cable or any upgrade cable? thanks


----------



## r31ya

Its been awhile since last time i visit 4chan, home of thousands edge-lords.
But interesting discussion.




Not one complained about how good it is, mostly argue whether its actually functionally 1dd with 2 other driver not functional or a proper 3 driver.
Something about the smooth graph is indicating no BA.


----------



## XerusKun (Dec 4, 2021)

ChristianM said:


> You're listening with stock cable or any upgrade cable? thanks


Avoid the stock cable as much as possible in my experience it makes ZP unengaging, flat and lifeless, just MEH. Put any 8 core cable (I'm using a Nicehck 8-core copper cable) you want and your pause game is good to go. You can try changing the eartips to sony ex11 if you think that the 8k region is too much. I'm not a cable believer by default, this is the only exception, since I've definitely noticed that ZP became more dynamic and energetic while maintaining that neutral signature with any 8 core cable aside from the stock cable blasphemy.


----------



## XerusKun

r31ya said:


> Its been awhile since last time i visit 4chan, home of thousands edge-lords.
> But interesting discussion.
> 
> Not one complained about how good it is, mostly argue whether its actually functionally 1dd with 2 other driver not functional or a proper 3 driver.
> Something about the smooth graph is indicating no BA.


I've seen someone saying that its on par with Moondrop Kato, the only difference is that Kato has more refinement in the mids while ZP has a much larger stage.


----------



## ChristianM

XerusKun said:


> Avoid the stock cable as much as possible in my experience it makes ZP unengaging, flat and lifeless, just MEH. Put any 8 core cable (I'm using a Nicehck 8-core copper cable) you want and your pause game is good to go. You can try changing the eartips to sony ex11 if you think that the 8k region is too much. I'm not a cable believer by default, this is the only exception, since I've definitely noticed that ZP became more dynamic and energetic while maintaining that neutral signature with any 8 core cable aside from the stock cable blasphemy.


Thanks for reply, are you talking about this cable?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955106234.html

I like this cable as well, at least better than stock silver cable I believe.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...=20211204003429227868306651670010939101_2&s=p


----------



## XerusKun

ChristianM said:


> Thanks for reply, are you talking about this cable?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32955106234.html
> 
> ...


Yap that's the nicehck cable. Any cable will work as long as it's not the stock cable. I've also tried my Heart Mirror stock cable with the ZP almost the same.


----------



## r31ya

XerusKun said:


> I've seen someone saying that its on par with Moondrop Kato, the only difference is that Kato has more refinement in the mids while ZP has a much larger stage.



In comparison





Not sure on the "tone", kz ba have that metalic taste and whether we hit driver limitation, but so far its promising


----------



## XerusKun

r31ya said:


> In comparison
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure on the "tone", kz ba have that metalic taste and whether we hit driver limitation, but so far its promising


In my experience, I can't detect any BA timbre in the ZEX Pro, the treble feels natural and organic, like did they put a BA in this IEM? There's a little magnetostat timbre in the mix but BA? nope can't detect it.


----------



## Nimweth

droido256 said:


> Well just impulse bought the AST, the allure of 12 drivers crammed into each ear was too much to resist 😪. Hopefully it sounds good and holds up well. Be interesting to AB them with the Tape Pro (which sounds pretty good to me, now just hope they hold up). I wonder what the “improved” drivers are besides silver to black casings.


Ah! The Tape Pro. I like that one as well, though I fear we may be in the minority....


----------



## RikudouGoku

XerusKun said:


> In my experience, I can't detect any BA timbre in the ZEX Pro, the treble feels natural and organic, like did they put a BA in this IEM? There's a little magnetostat timbre in the mix but BA? nope can't detect it.






(this is the Knowles 30095 but the Bellsing one should be a copy anyway...)

It has the same peak at 4k, so It does look like the ZEX Pro is just damping it.


----------



## lushmelody

XerusKun said:


> In my experience, I can't detect any BA timbre in the ZEX Pro, the treble feels natural and organic, like did they put a BA in this IEM? There's a little magnetostat timbre in the mix but BA? nope can't detect it.


NOOOO budget brands are incapable of well tuned BAs 😂


----------



## XerusKun

RikudouGoku said:


> (this is the Knowles 30095 but the Bellsing one should be a copy anyway...)
> 
> It has the same peak at 4k, so It does look like the ZEX Pro is just damping it.


Ahhh, yah I feel like the 4kHz peak is somehow damped by the nozzle filter, maybe there's a BA timbre I just can't point it out since it's smoothed out.
I'm more curious with that 8kHz peak since I'm hearing occassional peaks at that frequency specially at higher volumes. Fortunately the peak is significantly reduced when I used the sony-ex11 eartips.


----------



## XerusKun

lushmelody said:


> NOOOO budget brands are incapable of well tuned BAs 😂


I mean you can say that, yeah. But I think its better if you can try the ZEX Pro personally. For me it's the awakening of KZ like what they made is not KZ iem anymore.


----------



## chinmie

Nimweth said:


> Ah! The Tape Pro. I like that one as well, though I fear we may be in the minority....



I also still have it (and like it). I currently pair it to my KZ AZ09 Pro. it's my go to "better sounding KZ-y type sound"  IEM.


----------



## XerusKun

If anyone is curious there's a paper like filter sandwitched with the mesh guard on the noozle, the insides are not visible through the nozzle.


----------



## PhonoPhi

4ceratops said:


> In my opinion AST is lacking everything except bass: clear mids, spark, layering, etc...  1 DD Aria or Smabat Proto (with Beryllium coated upgrade driver) are from different universe compared to AST. I have more IEM up to € 50, which bring a much more experience than this other failed multi multi multi BA from KZ.


What source(s) and tips do you use with your AST?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Mine zex pro has finally left china. Lets hope its gong by air and not sea, but for 20 quid including shipping, i seriously doubt it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

XerusKun said:


> If anyone is curious there's a paper like filter sandwitched with the mesh guard on the noozle, the insides are not visible through the nozzle.


Paper? Can you try take a better/closer pic on the nozzle?

Does it look like these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002584285688.html


----------



## XerusKun

RikudouGoku said:


> Paper? Can you try take a better/closer pic on the nozzle?
> 
> Does it look like these?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002584285688.html


This is the closest I can get. Can't tell if its the filter you've send, also I don't want to pry the filters..hahaha..but its definitely not just a mesh grill.


----------



## RikudouGoku

XerusKun said:


> This is the closest I can get. Can't tell if its the filter you've send, also I don't want to pry the filters..hahaha..but its definitely not just a mesh grill.


ok, np. I take a look and post some macros when I get mine.


----------



## Atek2019

KZ ZEX Pro review From BGGAR...


----------



## Tzennn

RikudouGoku said:


> ok, np. I take a look and post some macros when I get mine.


Can you compare with DQ6 and maybe gd3a when your pair come ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tzennn said:


> Can you compare with DQ6 and maybe gd3a when your pair come ?


DQ6 will definitely be compared. GD3A will be included if the tech is actually close to it, otherwise I dont think they share any similarities.


----------



## RCracer777

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Mine zex pro has finally left china. Lets hope its gong by air and not sea, but for 20 quid including shipping, i seriously doubt it.


Usually Ali ships by air, even with the cheapest items. You can check on Cainiao what the progress is of your package with a lot more detail and precision. It should also state the method of transportation.


----------



## 4ceratops

PhonoPhi said:


> What source(s) and tips do you use with your AST?


Usually Hiby R2, and  I tried: Spinfit 100, JVC Spiraldots, BGVP A07 + W01, Symbio W Peel, Azla Crystal tips. Even after tons of EQing, the results are unacceptable to me. We just didn't understand each other and I use them to the maximum for movies via bluetooth adapter.


----------



## Nimweth

chinmie said:


> I also still have it (and like it). I currently pair it to my KZ AZ09 Pro. it's my go to "better sounding KZ-y type sound"  IEM.


The Tape Pro sounds great with electronic music. I am using it with the TRI Through cable. Great textured bass, present mids and lively treble.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

4ceratops said:


> Usually Hiby R2, and  I tried: Spinfit 100, JVC Spiraldots, BGVP A07 + W01, Symbio W Peel, Azla Crystal tips. Even after tons of EQing, the results are unacceptable to me. We just didn't understand each other and I use them to the maximum for movies via bluetooth adapter.


Try this EQ setting for your AST:

40Hz -3.5dB Q1.50
1900Hz -4.0dB Q1.10
3400Hz 6.0dB Q1.70
5200Hz -8.0dB Q2.00
7500Hz +3.0dB Q1.50
11000Hz +3.0dB Q1.50


----------



## Atek2019

Another review of KZ ZEX Pro.


----------



## nraymond

RCracer777 said:


> Usually Ali ships by air, even with the cheapest items. You can check on Cainiao what the progress is of your package with a lot more detail and precision. It should also state the method of transportation.


On a related question, is Cainiao more precise than USPS? I have an AliExpress package that says "Arrival at the Destination" on November 9 with no other updates from Cainiao. USPS says "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment", and when I spoke with USPS they said they didn't have it and thought it was still in China.


----------



## ChristianM

Does DQ6 sound better than ZSX? is it good for metal and rock?


----------



## Aparker2005

Anyone's cra shipped?


----------



## ChristianM

nraymond said:


> On a related question, is Cainiao more precise than USPS? I have an AliExpress package that says "Arrival at the Destination" on November 9 with no other updates from Cainiao. USPS says "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment", and when I spoke with USPS they said they didn't have it and thought it was still in China.


In my experience Cainiao sucks. aliexpress uses Cainiao most of the time if shipping is free. and if it's singapore post then it can be a month or two months.


----------



## lushmelody (Dec 4, 2021)

I do the EQed AST when home and considering critical listening. I still get mixed feelings about BA cymbals in general though. I think the stock polite treble do cymbals (with phone as source) so deliciously good (not a high fidelity thing, but more as an audiophile pleasure... they are so... delicate). I crave a lot the overall comfort this IEM gives, both sound and physical (its really ergonomical and isolates well too). It's my main gym buddy 

By the way, I consider Whizzer SS20 tips my best 11.11 purchase. They DO improve soundstage and all my current IEMs I test with them get an out of head feeling. The IEM needs at least an average separation and etc, though. AST got a great synergy


----------



## 4ceratops

ExTubeGamer said:


> Try this EQ setting for your AST:
> 
> 40Hz -3.5dB Q1.50
> 1900Hz -4.0dB Q1.10
> ...


THX for EQ profile, i tried it and result is:😭. I am in war with AST🪖


----------



## -rowan-

*ZEX Pro quick impressions  *

They just arrived today so these are just brief impressions and notes with zero burn in. 

Pictured with the DQ6 here because they are the most similar thing I have in terms of both fit and sound. 




DQ6 on the left and ZEX Pro on the right. Shells look identical as far as I can tell but ZEX Pro has a curved faceplate. They don’t sound a million miles apart either. Definitely first cousins. 

My OG ZEX is out on loan so any comparisons with it are from memory.

So here we go…

- Timbre is… surprisingly natural. Or at least I’m surprised I’m not hearing much of the dreaded BA timbre that usually kills coherence in a lot of hybrids for me. Though the DD lows are definitely thicker and less defined with softer edges atm.

- Stage is wider than expected and it’s quite airy as some have noted but mids sometimes come across as being a bit distant.

- There’s a hefty slab of sub bass and it can reach low but isn’t very tight or defined atm (the DQ6 does it better, so the ZEX Pro might well tighten up as well later).

- It’s better with instruments than vocals. In particular, rich female alto vocals sound a bit distant and lean, which is the weakest part of ZEX Pro for me so far. I don’t recall OG ZEX suffering from this issue. Definitely prefer OG for vocals in comparison.

- The ZEX Pro also tends towards more sibilance than I’ve heard in an IEM in some time (slightly more than DQ6). 

- Peaks in the upper mids and treble give it more energy but make it potentially more fatiguing than OG ZEX, which for me is made for long, lazy fun listening so long as you pay attention to nothing in particular. But I was also a treblehead in a previous life and I will say that cymbals and other percussion are more realistic here. 

- Both ZEX Pro and DQ6 tighten up noticeably and extend better both ways once you switch out the stock cable. I use the KZ “gold” and “silver” plated cables on them since they are so inexpensive and already bring an audible difference (but again, YMMV).

Conclusion: If you’re looking to buy just one KZ IEM, the DQ6 has a slight edge in being the more complete and well rounded package. But if you want to hear KZ’s first attempt at a tribrid or get a taste of what KZ/CCA have been doing with magnetostatic drivers, the ZEX Pro isn’t far away and you won’t feel like you’ve wasted your money here.


----------



## PhonoPhi

4ceratops said:


> THX for EQ profile, i tried it and result is:😭. I am in war with AST🪖


AST is just a little object, do not be "at war" with yourself - and all will come with this inner peace and serenity


----------



## profusion

Strange, why KZ don’t put effort to upgrade the unbeatable DQ6….


----------



## RikudouGoku

profusion said:


> Strange, why KZ don’t put effort to upgrade the unbeatable DQ6….


Yeah, I have given them some feedback about it though a few days ago.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

4ceratops said:


> THX for EQ profile, i tried it and result is:😭. I am in war with AST🪖


So you like the profile now? Adjust it to your preference.


----------



## Tzennn

ChristianM said:


> Does DQ6 sound better than ZSX? is it good for metal and rock?


Don't have zsx but dq6 is good with metal and rock, as well as nra/zex. If you like impact bass you can go with zex, tight punchy bass go to nra, thumpy go to dq6. All of them lack some 2-3k peek so some cymbal might sound.if you willing to eq nra/zex might be better choice


----------



## droido256

Nimweth said:


> Ah! The Tape Pro. I like that one as well, though I fear we may be in the minority....


The sound signature is definitely…. Unique


----------



## droido256

lushmelody said:


> Welcome to the club. If you like bassy and thick sound (but meh treble and technicalities) it will bring joy


Just got the AST in, treble seems fine to me, not as sharp or peaky, or metallic like the kb10….. I think these ruined those for me 🙄. However I will say jeez these can go deep. And thump. Not isine10 or lcdi3 beat your skull in bass, but impressive for a BA tho. I personally think they should good, I wouldn’t say thick either, capable of being meaty. Vocals are nice and liquid. However the tips are trash. Jacked the tips off the Aiwas to fix that lol.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 5, 2021)

Atek2019 said:


> KZ ZEX Pro review From BGGAR...



The tuning is good. But yea as i feared, to some degree KZ hit driver limitation.

But how crazy KZ would be when they started going for, not just driver amount, but tuning, as well as "exotic" material driver or higher grade driver.
*"KZ DQ6 Pro-X, a Harman-Neutral ish IEMs with 3 DD, Beryllium driver, Titanium driver, and graphene driver."

"And KZ ZAXXX with 15 drivers each, wait its a long driver list. I think its easier to list whats not in it"*


----------



## XerusKun

Hello, I've posted my review of the ZEX Pro here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-zex-pro.25580/reviews#review-27435, if you have time you can check it out. Thanks!


----------



## ChristianM

Tzennn said:


> Don't have zsx but dq6 is good with metal and rock, as well as nra/zex. If you like impact bass you can go with zex, tight punchy bass go to nra, thumpy go to dq6. All of them lack some 2-3k peek so some cymbal might sound.if you willing to eq nra/zex might be better choice


Thanks for reply, do I need to upgrade the cable to 8 core or the stock cable is fine? I can't afford to buy an 8 core cable right now otherwide I would have gone for zex pro (which few folks said is necessary to enjoy zex pro). I have Fiio M3K and most of the time I don't need EQ but I do if track wants me to. and what about the stock tips? is it fine?


----------



## Tzennn

ChristianM said:


> Thanks for reply, do I need to upgrade the cable to 8 core or the stock cable is fine? I can't afford to buy an 8 core cable right now otherwide I would have gone for zex pro (which few folks said is necessary to enjoy zex pro). I have Fiio M3K and most of the time I don't need EQ but I do if track wants me to. and what about the stock tips? is it fine?


Stock cable is good enough, you can buy ofc cable and damping filter for dq6 to smooth out treble, with nra/zex stock is fine. Stock tips is good but you might want to change them on dq6 or zex. Nra/zex sound better with wide bore tips, dq6 sound better with final e/sony ex11/kz starlight. Hope that help.


----------



## ChristianM

Tzennn said:


> Stock cable is good enough, you can buy ofc cable and damping filter for dq6 to smooth out treble, with nra/zex stock is fine. Stock tips is good but you might want to change them on dq6 or zex. Nra/zex sound better with wide bore tips, dq6 sound better with final e/sony ex11/kz starlight. Hope that help.


Thanks you so much


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Tzennn said:


> Stock cable is good enough, you can buy ofc cable and damping filter for dq6 to smooth out treble, with nra/zex stock is fine. Stock tips is good but you might want to change them on dq6 or zex. Nra/zex sound better with wide bore tips, dq6 sound better with final e/sony ex11/kz starlight. Hope that help.



+1 on wide bore tips for the NRA. It's a bit similar to GK10 for having tip sensitive treble. Not to the same degree but it helps open them up a bit. 

I've been using that stock NRA cable on my C12 and I love it. On first look you're thinking straight to the trash. But it sounds just fine and is fairly tangle resistant and has no microphonics that I've been able to tell. I can order another ZEX/NRA for the price of most upgrade cables. These IEMs are sensitive as well so balanced cable just gives you more hiss when amped. 
Focus on tips as Tzennn says and you're good to go.


----------



## ChristianM

XerusKun said:


> Hello, I've posted my review of the ZEX Pro here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-zex-pro.25580/reviews#review-27435, if you have time you can check it out. Thanks!


I could not find *Sony EX-11 *on aliexpress, can you please share any links?
*KZ Starline Tips *is this the one?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32724406344.html


----------



## Arjey

Can someone recommend some good tips for DQ6? I received mine a few days ago.. and I just can't find anything that fits good and is comfortable.. the largest stock tips are kinda ok, but they provide little sound isolation and sound very bright. So far I've kinda stopped on stock medium tips from Kbear KS1, but.. they don't exactly feel right :/ KZ Starline are decent, but they stick out of my ear very far and the stock cable pulls them out, plus they're a bit stiff and after 2h of listening my ears began to physically become tired


----------



## Tzennn

Arjey said:


> Can someone recommend some good tips for DQ6? I received mine a few days ago.. and I just can't find anything that fits good and is comfortable.. the largest stock tips are kinda ok, but they provide little sound isolation and sound very bright. So far I've kinda stopped on stock medium tips from Kbear KS1, but.. they don't exactly feel right :/ KZ Starline are decent, but they stick out of my ear very far and the stock cable pulls them out, plus they're a bit stiff and after 2h of listening my ears began to physically become tired


Rotate iem until the wings fit in, I have fit problem with my dq6 wings too


----------



## XerusKun

ChristianM said:


> I could not find *Sony EX-11 *on aliexpress, can you please share any links?
> *KZ Starline Tips *is this the one?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32724406344.html


KZ starline tips is the stock eartips included with the ZEX Pro. Here's the link for the sony tips https://m.pt.aliexpress.com/item/32759599330.html the full name of the sony tips is Sony EP-EX11 tips.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 5, 2021)

KZ ZEX Pro started to appear as 10 days preorder in my local online shop.
I wonder whether AliExpress freeshipping can get to me faster than these local online shop.
---
And again, pretty damn happy KZ make the IEM nozzle a bit bigger for ZEX Pro. basically most of my eartips is too loose for DQ6.


----------



## RCracer777

nraymond said:


> On a related question, is Cainiao more precise than USPS? I have an AliExpress package that says "Arrival at the Destination" on November 9 with no other updates from Cainiao. USPS says "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment", and when I spoke with USPS they said they didn't have it and thought it was still in China.


More precise than USPS? I don't know, never have to deal with them as I don't live in the US. 
Cainiao is more precise than what Ali says but when it's out of their control (when the air carrier accepts the package) they can only give global indications dependent on how the cooperation is between them and the other carriers. With my local carrier the connection is pretty good but even then there are limits and you won't get every detail.

What I do know is that Arrival at destination only means that the plane carrying the package has landed and it was unloaded. It still has to be accepted and go through customs before the final carrier gets the package. This can take some time and when the final carrier has the package, Cainiao can't give any more updates until it's delivered as they do get the delivery notice.

Still no updates since November 9th is quite long. Not unheard of though as I've also had a 3 week period with no update on a package earlier this year, got stuck at customs I think.


----------



## lushmelody (Dec 5, 2021)

RCracer777 said:


> More precise than USPS? I don't know, never have to deal with them as I don't live in the US.
> Cainiao is more precise than what Ali says but when it's out of their control (when the air carrier accepts the package) they can only give global indications dependent on how the cooperation is between them and the other carriers. With my local carrier the connection is pretty good but even then there are limits and you won't get every detail.
> 
> What I do know is that Arrival at destination only means that the plane carrying the package has landed and it was unloaded. It still has to be accepted and go through customs before the final carrier gets the package. This can take some time and when the final carrier has the package, Cainiao can't give any more updates until it's delivered as they do get the delivery notice.
> ...


I really like Ebanx Track for detailed Ali delivery info (it does notifications and sends emails). It has ads on the app, though.


----------



## lushmelody

r31ya said:


> The tuning is good. But yea as i feared, to some degree KZ hit driver limitation.
> 
> But how crazy KZ would be when they started going for, not just driver amount, but tuning, as well as "exotic" material driver or higher grade driver.
> *"KZ DQ6 Pro-X, a Harman-Neutral ish IEMs with 3 DD, Beryllium driver, Titanium driver, and graphene driver."
> ...


Well, alternative to fancy coatings, they are giving us a triple magnet and the allegedly thinnest DD recently. BAs, in the same sense, are the new black ones. So driver wise we can guess they are innovating, just tuning variety was the lacking factor


----------



## Tzennn

Not gonna lie after all these crazy iem like dq6, kz est like, multi ba or infamous gk10 and harman curve blabla, nothing beat that hostile feeling of kz zsn pro... Maybe i should buy a pair just for fun lol


----------



## Arjey

Haven't had the time to keep up with the thread.. has anyone made a comparison between modded DQ6 (or just DQ6) and the new ZEX Pro?


----------



## Robius

Arjey said:


> Haven't had the time to keep up with the thread.. has anyone made a comparison between modded DQ6 (or just DQ6) and the new ZEX Pro?


I'm waiting for @RikudouGoku review. I guess he will make a comparison.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Robius said:


> I'm waiting for @RikudouGoku review. I guess he will make a comparison.


Yes, but my unit hasnt been shipped yet. (nor my CRA.)

Next year it is.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 5, 2021)

Tzennn said:


> Not gonna lie after all these crazy iem like dq6, kz est like, multi ba or infamous gk10 and harman curve blabla, nothing beat that hostile feeling of kz zsn pro... Maybe i should buy a pair just for fun lol


I can still happily listen to CA4, and then Apple Dongle & DQ6 with either some equalizing or modding can bring you very close to a very steeply diminishing return per price on your audiophile acquisitions (I did come to a realization that most my recent acquisitions were for the sake of curiosity, shopping, understanding, but less so for music...)


----------



## droido256

So now I have the ast, what is the difference between the ast, and the cca ca24, they look exactly the same. Was bouncing between the two when deciding.


----------



## TheVortex

droido256 said:


> So now I have the ast, what is the difference between the ast, and the cca ca24, they look exactly the same. Was bouncing between the two when deciding.


No difference as far as I am aware.


----------



## PhonoPhi

droido256 said:


> So now I have the ast, what is the difference between the ast, and the cca ca24, they look exactly the same. Was bouncing between the two when deciding.


No difference other than the shells, as explicitly answered to me by the CCA store.


----------



## auraldesire95

It's been a long time since I visited this thread as inexpensive truly wireless earphones had my attention for a while. 

I'm stuck between whether to purchase the KZ ZEX (£19.72 inc. VAT) or the ZEX Pro (£31.11 inc. VAT). What would you all recommend? Thank you in advance.


----------



## -rowan-

ChristianM said:


> Thanks for reply, do I need to upgrade the cable to 8 core or the stock cable is fine? I can't afford to buy an 8 core cable right now otherwide I would have gone for zex pro (which few folks said is necessary to enjoy zex pro). I have Fiio M3K and most of the time I don't need EQ but I do if track wants me to. and what about the stock tips? is it fine?



Do you have $7 or $8 to spare on one of those KZ upgrade cables from AE? It’s all you need and it has made an audible difference over the stock cable with all the KZ IEMs I’ve tried it with including the ZEX, ZEX Pro, DQ6 and CCA NRA. I’m a bit of a cable believer but these IEMs are so inexpensive I don’t see the point of spending on a pricier cable just for them when their own upgrade cable already makes a difference.


----------



## ttorbic

auraldesire95 said:


> It's been a long time since I visited this thread as inexpensive truly wireless earphones had my attention for a while.
> 
> I'm stuck between whether to purchase the KZ ZEX (£19.72 inc. VAT) or the ZEX Pro (£31.11 inc. VAT). What would you all recommend? Thank you in advance.


I got my ZEX PRO for £21.95 during 11.11 sales. If you wait like 10 hours, ZEX PRO will drop back down to similar levels. I wouldn't pay £31.11!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 5, 2021)

Thinking about recent evolution in KZ sound and trying to rationalize it, more specifically in the context of the shifts in the sources, here are my limited thoughts that I hope can be useful to some.

From the few years back, KZ was well-known and almost equated with bright cheerful V, epitomized by KZ ZS10 pro, for instance. At the same time, AK "velvet sound" was one of the dominating tuning of DAPs and other audiophile gadgets. Even my ESS-based DAP, I happened to slowly (and expensively) realize, was tuned to this "softer" tuning.
AK chips are effectively no longer, so ESS-based devices now became most prevalent.
In this context. V-tiuning synergized quite well with the softer "velvet".
At the same time, if KZ tuners started to use ESS-based sources, then the softer tuning of AST, ZEX, etc start to feel so much more logical.
While at first, I almost put AST aside,  I did realize later that AST have good synergy with either Z4 or E1DA, where the treble starts to come to life/sense, and everything becomes more enjoyable. I definitely prefer AST to TRI I3.


----------



## droido256

So far the AST is definitely sounding excellent, and still offering surprises. And so far isn’t fatiguing. Definitely the most bass producing BA type I’ve ever had. Excellent vocals, very fast reaction time, excellent treble. I know my observations are clearly subjective. Now need to find some good tips. Anyone have recommendations on where to look for properly fitting eartips? The stock ones leave much to be desired.


----------



## PhonoPhi

droido256 said:


> So far the AST is definitely sounding excellent, and still offering surprises. And so far isn’t fatiguing. Definitely the most bass producing BA type I’ve ever had. Excellent vocals, very fast reaction time, excellent treble. I know my observations are clearly subjective. Now need to find some good tips. Anyone have recommendations on where to look for properly fitting eartips? The stock ones leave much to be desired.


I use wide-bore tips, like JVC Spiral Dots, with all my all-BA IEMs. The tips are a most individual component due to anatomy differences, hearing and subjective preferences.


----------



## Ynot1

I have a conspiracy theory that depends on my assumption. Actually maybe two. I think ESS is American company and AK is Japanese. And lately I noticed that American companies benefit at the expense of international competitors' stumbles. All I am saying is we have more data centers than they do. The second one which is more relevant. Didn't KZ always catered toward the budget market because they have two advantages that they can harness over their competitors. One is they've got connections in the ChiFi audio community. And secondly they've also got connections with the ChiFi factories. So any over produced or easily available parts or components are sourceable by KZ to bring a market cost competitive iems and more. Just guessing though.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Ynot1 said:


> I have a conspiracy theory that depends on my assumption. Actually maybe two. I think ESS is American company and AK is Japanese. And lately I noticed that American companies benefit at the expense of international competitors' stumbles. All I am saying is we have more data centers than they do. The second one which is more relevant. Didn't KZ always catered toward the budget market because they have two advantages that they can harness over their competitors. One is they've got connections in the ChiFi audio community. And secondly they've also got connections with the ChiFi factories. So any over produced or easily available parts or components are sourceable by KZ to bring a market cost competitive iems and more. Just guessing though.


Yesterday I noticed that my ZAX sounds so good on an AKM DAC.

Coincidence? I think not.


----------



## nihil23 (Dec 5, 2021)

droido256 said:


> So far the AST is definitely sounding excellent, and still offering surprises. And so far isn’t fatiguing. Definitely the most bass producing BA type I’ve ever had. Excellent vocals, very fast reaction time, excellent treble. I know my observations are clearly subjective. Now need to find some good tips. Anyone have recommendations on where to look for properly fitting eartips? The stock ones leave much to be desired.


I've tried almost all of my tips with ast, and best of them in terms if fir, sound and isolation were bgvp w01 and spinfit cp360, and epro e00 (least in fit terms due that they are pretty tall). Now I use L sized cp360, they didn't change sound much, but I feel that mid are a bit forward now.


----------



## nihil23

PhonoPhi said:


> Thinking about recent evolution in KZ sound and trying to rationalize it, more specifically in the context of the shifts in the sources, here are my limited thoughts that I hope can be useful to some.
> 
> From the few years back, KZ was well-known and almost equated with bright cheerful V, epitomized by KZ ZS10 pro, for instance. At the same time, AK "velvet sound" was one of the dominating tuning of DAPs and other audiophile gadgets. Even my ESS-based DAP, I happened to slowly (and expensively) realize, was tuned to this "softer" tuning.
> AK chips are effectively no longer, so ESS-based devices now became most prevalent.
> ...


Yes, I've listen to some dark jazz today and kz ast and tiandirenhe td08 (qdc), had most suitable sounding, better than blons and mele, sax on blons and mele sometimes was almost horrible and shouty. 
AST and td08 was better on hiby fc3 (which has ess dac) than on ifi zen dac v2 (which has burr brown), at least AST was more lively, more treble, I think. I think ifi zen dac too neutral for AST


----------



## r31ya (Dec 6, 2021)

heh, out of knowhere.






Not sure he is joking or serious. But it is tuned to his preferred sound sig
Btw, its from


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> I definitely prefer AST to TRI I3.



Maybe the reason that AST hasn't sold more is because us mortals just can't handle the power.


----------



## IEMbiker

r31ya said:


> heh, out of knowhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think ZEX Pro is my endgame too...I love NRA but I love ZEX Pro even more OTB. Bass, mid, treble, sound stage, is good.


----------



## Tzennn

r31ya said:


> heh, out of knowhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't know but as harman-ist, zex pro sig kinda... close. I tried to eq my nra to kz zex pro and kinda like it. If they made zex pro without wings i will buy it tho. Also it looks big


----------



## IEMbiker

Tzennn said:


> Don't know but as harman-ist, zex pro sig kinda... close. I tried to eq my nra to kz zex pro and kinda like it. If they made zex pro without wings i will buy it tho. Also it looks big


Fit is definitely better then NRA, seal very well with starline for my ear.


----------



## dharmasteve

It's good to see the graphs of the ZEX Pro and get a good idea of the different amplitudes. It would be nice to hear a few adjectives about tonality, timbre, stage etc, that define the quality of sound. Maybe some tracks we all know, to get an idea of these qualitative factors. Hopefully mine may show up in a week and I can get a real world idea of their sound. Looking forwards to hearing them with a better cable and a bit of tip rolling. It seems to show a likeable graph, but will tonality, timbre, staging and sound enjoyment factors be good to the ZEX Pro?


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 6, 2021)

ZEX Pro in the house. Free case and foams from the KZ official store.






The shells are smaller than I expected.


----------



## IEMbiker (Dec 6, 2021)

Here you go, measured with DIY mic for fun only.



ZEX Pro Left Right, Some channel imbalance but ok inside 3db...




NRA - Redline
ZEX Pro - Green


----------



## ChristianM

I've got last $10 coupon for zex pro from CCA store which will end in a few hours, I can still order zex pro for $23 but sad thing is that zex pro require at least 8 core cable to give you best music experience. sadly I don't have $10 to spare on cable and as I sold my zsx lately I want another IEM and I only see KZ DQ6 as it has very good reviews. 
One peculiar thing I read in XerusKun review: 
"After my honeymoon with the ZP, I’ve tried to test the stock cable again and from that something bizarre happen. I can’t detect any differences between my stock cable and my 8-core cable"
I wonder these electret drivers need hell of a time to warm-up and I wonder if I get zex pro and use it with stock cable for some time till I have money to buy 8 core cable. I have Fiio M3K to provide zex pro enough power but this cable thing is stopping me from zex pro.


----------



## Aevum

Wait, crinacle refered to a KZ as endgame ?


----------



## unifutomaki

ChristianM said:


> I've got last $10 coupon for zex pro from CCA store which will end in a few hours, I can still order zex pro for $23 but sad thing is that zex pro require at least 8 core cable to give you best music experience. sadly I don't have $10 to spare on cable and as I sold my zsx lately I want another IEM and I only see KZ DQ6 as it has very good reviews.
> One peculiar thing I read in XerusKun review:
> "After my honeymoon with the ZP, I’ve tried to test the stock cable again and from that something bizarre happen. I can’t detect any differences between my stock cable and my 8-core cable"
> I wonder these electret drivers need hell of a time to warm-up and I wonder if I get zex pro and use it with stock cable for some time till I have money to buy 8 core cable. I have Fiio M3K to provide zex pro enough power but this cable thing is stopping me from zex pro.


Please, stop worrying about the cable 

I assure you that as long as the cable isn't broken out of the box, the ZEX Pro will perform as intended 😂


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Maybe the reason that AST hasn't sold more is because us mortals just can't handle the power.


That is the burning/flaming question 


IEMbiker said:


> I think ZEX Pro is my endgame too...I love NRA but I love ZEX Pro even more OTB. Bass, mid, treble, sound stage, is good.


Did Crin start collaboration with KZ/CCA, CRN?
Would not it make perfect sense then?


----------



## Tzennn

unifutomaki said:


> Please, stop worrying about the cable
> 
> I assure you that as long as the cable isn't broken out of the box, the ZEX Pro will perform as intended 😂


Is it look as big as this chunky cca csn ?


----------



## unifutomaki

Tzennn said:


> Is it look as big as this chunky cca csn ?


I don’t have the CSN but here is the ZEX Pro beside the ZAX


----------



## r31ya (Dec 6, 2021)

Aevum said:


> Wait, crinacle refered to a KZ as endgame ?


Not sure whether he is joking or whether is really him. seems the right name and profile pic tough.
But that being said, KZ ZEX Pro graph is near identical with things he likes, so yeah.

and yes, there the question with this.


----------



## evasb (Dec 6, 2021)

r31ya said:


> Not sure whether he is joking or whether is really him. seems the right name and profile pic tough.
> But that being said, KZ ZEX Pro graph is near identical with things he likes, so yeah.





It's real. But probably he's just kidding and didn't hear it yet.


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 6, 2021)

I dislike hype trains; I bought these for the discounted price, fully expecting to meme these and then put them on sale. I also haven’t viewed any reviews or coverage of these on YouTube or on these site, so my impressions remain uncoloured by others’ opinions.

I’d like to report, however, that my expectations have been defied.

Comfortable, form-fitting shells. The wings are not an issue for me.
Extremely easy to drive. My Earmen Eagle drives the ZEX Pro to comfortable listening volumes at 8/100 on my PC.
Very satisfying bass. There’s a visceral slam, rumble, texture, and noticeably less bloat, which are all attributes lacking in the ZEX. Sub-bass is more prominent than midbass. Midbass is tight and doesn’t overstay its welcome.
Male vocals exhibit less of the typical KZ recession. There’s some body, a sense of resolution to the vocals. However, they can still get lost sometimes, especially when there are concurrent bass notes.
Female vocals possess a very pleasing sense of depth and clarity. This can lead to sharpness at higher volumes though.
The treble section doesn’t stand out in any way. It’s inoffensive.
These don’t make me want to discard them straight away, unlike the TKZK Wave. So it’s already passed the first test 

Tracks I often listen to during first impressions:

1. メビウス - めいちゃん
2. ぼくを叱って - そらる
3. たぶん - YOASOBI
4. よさそう - Sou
5. 神様の遺伝子 - まふまふ


----------



## ChristianM

unifutomaki said:


> I dislike hype trains; I bought these for the discounted price, fully expecting to meme these and then put them on sale. I also haven’t viewed any reviews or coverage of these on YouTube or on these site, so my impressions remain uncoloured by others’ opinions.
> 
> I’d like to report, however, that my expectations have been defied.
> 
> ...


You are using stock cable and tips? do you listen metal and/or rock? thanks


----------



## unifutomaki

ChristianM said:


> You are using stock cable and tips? do you listen metal and/or rock? thanks


Above impressions are based on stock cable, but I've swapped to my XINHS 2-core SPC because the earguides are way more gentle. Sonically I cannot tell a difference. 

Tips - I don't get along that well with KZ tips, so I've fitted my own generic silicones.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Now that KZ can do Harman tuning, I expect great things from this company.

Let's hope for future Harman tuned all BA sets.


----------



## IEMbiker

Some ZEX Pro inside story....Xun it is and the most component 3 way cross over from KZ. Usually you just get 2 resistor and 3 cap or 3 resistor 2 cap max for this kind of implementation. I can see they put more effort in this one and the PCB quality looks better. The use 0201 chip on this one. Build quality is good. Take me sometime to crack open it.


----------



## evasb

IEMbiker said:


> Some ZEX Pro inside story....Xun it is and the most component 3 way cross over from KZ. Usually you just get 2 resistor and 3 cap or 3 resistor 2 cap max for this kind of implementation. I can see they put more effort in this one and the PCB quality looks better. The use 0201 chip on this one. Build quality is good. Take me sometime to crack open it.


Is this PCB bigger than the regular hybrid KZ? I never opened one.


----------



## Wgibson

So that's why they left so much space in some of these shells, room for more complex circuits.


----------



## droido256

PhonoPhi said:


> I use wide-bore tips, like JVC Spiral Dots, with all my all-BA IEMs. The tips are a most individual component due to anatomy differences, hearing and subjective preferences.





nihil23 said:


> I've tried almost all of my tips with ast, and best of them in terms if fir, sound and isolation were bgvp w01 and spinfit cp360, and epro e00 (least in fit terms due that they are pretty tall). Now I use L sized cp360, they didn't change sound much, but I feel that mid are a bit forward now.


Thanks for the recommendations, ordered a pack of the 360 spinfits, see how they do, if disappointed I’ll try the jvc’s. The Aiwa prodigy tips work well for now, stuck the Kz tips on those 🤣. 
Btw? Can’t like comments anymore?


----------



## paulwasabii

droido256 said:


> Thanks for the recommendations, ordered a pack of the 360 spinfits, see how they do, if disappointed I’ll try the jvc’s. The Aiwa prodigy tips work well for now, stuck the Kz tips on those 🤣.
> Btw? Can’t like comments anymore?


Try a different browser.  I don't know why it does not work occasionally


----------



## droido256 (Dec 6, 2021)

paulwasabii said:


> Try a different browser.  I don't know why it does not work occasionally


Ohhhhhh hmmmm let me try that
Edit: well I’ll be….


----------



## droido256

Who makes KZ’s BA drivers?


----------



## Robius

droido256 said:


> Who makes KZ’s BA drivers?


Bellsing


----------



## IEMbiker

evasb said:


> Is this PCB bigger than the regular hybrid KZ? I never opened one.


Almost same size with the ASX crossover( approx.8mmx5mm), bigger then CSN(2 component. only).


----------



## droido256 (Dec 6, 2021)

Robius said:


> Bellsing


Hats off to Bellsing then, these are pretty darn good  esp that tiny woofer in there, depending on the track, it’s downright savage.


----------



## saldsald

Robius said:


> Bellsing


I doubt that. Bellsings drivers are as expensive as Knowles and I have purchased some from them directly. They are more likely made by a smaller factory called 1audio or e-audio.


----------



## Aparker2005

My cra shipped. Really interested to see how these perform!


----------



## baskingshark

ChristianM said:


> I've got last $10 coupon for zex pro from CCA store which will end in a few hours, I can still order zex pro for $23 but sad thing is that zex pro require at least 8 core cable to give you best music experience. sadly I don't have $10 to spare on cable and as I sold my zsx lately I want another IEM and I only see KZ DQ6 as it has very good reviews.
> One peculiar thing I read in XerusKun review:
> "After my honeymoon with the ZP, I’ve tried to test the stock cable again and from that something bizarre happen. I can’t detect any differences between my stock cable and my 8-core cable"
> I wonder these electret drivers need hell of a time to warm-up and I wonder if I get zex pro and use it with stock cable for some time till I have money to buy 8 core cable. I have Fiio M3K to provide zex pro enough power but this cable thing is stopping me from zex pro.



Bro, as the others said, don't worry about cables. Cables are a big bone of contention here in audiophiledom, we have 2 camps, one saying cables don't make a difference to sound, and another camp saying it does. Flamewars regularly start over this cable issue haha.

Whatever your cable belief (we should respect everyone!), IMHO, you get more mileage in the sound changes by employing different eartips and sources, with cables the least in terms of sonic changes for the coin spent (ie diminishing returns). So just enjoy whatever comes in the box. I personally won't spend more money on a cable than what the IEM itself costs!



r31ya said:


> Not sure whether he is joking or whether is really him. seems the right name and profile pic tough.
> But that being said, KZ ZEX Pro graph is near identical with things he likes, so yeah.
> 
> and yes, there the question with this.



Nice graph for sure. But the usual adage of "graphs don't tell the full story" applies here. Like timbral accuracy, transients, soundstage, imaging, instrument separation etc can't be totally gleaned from a standard FR. 

But at least KZ seems to be refining their tuning away from the old school CHIFI V shaped sibilant shouty stuff in recent times.


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 7, 2021)

Took the ZEX Pro on my commute this morning, and this is an example of a track where the ZEX Pro really struggles. The high-pitched vocals and gobs of treble energy, what with traditional Chinese and Japanese string instruments, synths and crashing cymbals all at the same time lead to the ZEX Pro sounding thin, honky and almost shrill, especially at the higher volumes required for outdoor listening. I’m listening again in a quiet office environment and it still sounds thin.

Compared to the ZEX Pro, my Pioneer CH3 (I kid you not), at the same volume and out of the same source, presents this track with substantially less harshness, greater overall note weight and smoother upper mids. At higher listening levels, the CH3 gains presence and body, while the ZEX Pro starts to sound grating and metallic. Neither are anything to write home about in terms of soundstage or imaging.

Because I know the question is going to come up:

I used Tennmak Ultra foam tips on the ZEX Pro. CH3 sports Azla SednaEarfits.
Listening was done with my Questyle M12, which is as linear and transparent (and power-guzzling) as they come in terms of sources.
ZEX Pro has a XINHS 2-core SPC cable. CH3 - well - has what I assume is the cheapest noodle cable Pioneer could find in their parts bin, so it should be nigh unlistenable right?


----------



## r31ya (Dec 6, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> Took the ZEX Pro on my commute this morning, and this is an example of a track where the ZEX Pro really struggles. The high-pitched vocals and gobs of treble energy, what with traditional Chinese and Japanese string instruments, synths and crashing cymbals all at the same time lead to the ZEX Pro sounding thin, honky and almost shrill, especially at the higher volumes required for outdoor listening. I’m listening again in a quiet office environment and it still sounds thin.



It seems KZ still playing too safe with upper range and still struggle on getting it right.
BGGAR noted that cymbal sounds off and some other also noted similar instrument still not quite right.

So far it seems, Bass and mids is already pretty good, fixing treble is next.
...mine still estimated to arrive after christmas...


----------



## axhng

unifutomaki said:


> Took the ZEX Pro on my commute this morning, and this is an example of a track where the ZEX Pro really struggles. The high-pitched vocals and gobs of treble energy, what with traditional Chinese and Japanese string instruments, synths and crashing cymbals all at the same time lead to the ZEX Pro sounding thin, honky and almost shrill, especially at the higher volumes required for outdoor listening. I’m listening again in a quiet office environment and it still sounds thin.
> 
> Compared to the ZEX Pro, my Pioneer CH3 (I kid you not), at the same volume and out of the same source, presents this track with substantially less harshness, greater overall note weight and smoother upper mids. At higher listening levels, the CH3 gains presence and body, while the ZEX Pro starts to sound grating and metallic. Neither are anything to write home about in terms of soundstage or imaging.
> 
> ...





r31ya said:


> It seems KZ still playing too safe with upper range and still struggle on getting it right.
> BGGAR noted that cymbal sounds off and some other also noted similar instrument still not quite right.
> 
> So far it seems, Bass and mids is already pretty good, fixing treble is next.
> ...mine still estimated to arrive after christmas...


for me the default tuning is a bit thin in the mids for me too, and there's something about the treble that reminds me of the treble on the NRA like mentioned in my earlier impression, even though it's a bit tamer. It's not quite as 'off' as those cheap BAs on other budget KZs to me, but it's not quite 'not off' to me either compared to a good single DD or just a good BA like on the ER4XR. But still not too bad though.

Though i think the default tuning is a good baseline for some minor EQ. Was out and about this morning (walking around, public transport) and brought the ZEX Pro out since the fit is great with above average isolation for my ears (stock cable and tips). For me i'm upping the mid bass and 3kHz a bit, and bringing down the treble a bit, especially in the 8kHz. after that, it becomes quite enjoyable for me.


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

*Check out my review on KZ ZEX Pro **here**. Thanks mates.

*


----------



## RikudouGoku

New TWS







https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-sk10-pro


----------



## r31ya (Dec 7, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> New TWS
> 
> 
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-sk10-pro


Yup, kinda expect this one. KZ SK10 with Qualcomm 3040 (+APTX) instead of the old realtek(?) chip.

The advertised graph for SK10 Pro






And compared to the older advertised graph of KZ VX10,


----------



## lushmelody

Is Yume treble lacking extended cymbals like ZEX Pro?


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

lushmelody said:


> Is Yume treble lacking extended cymbals like ZEX Pro?


Yume has a bit of sizzle and more airy that ZEX Pro.


----------



## lushmelody

Zerstorer_GOhren said:


> Yume has a bit of sizzle and more airy that ZEX Pro.


Then I guess the new driver needs improvement. A Harman DQ6 would be pefect though while KZ figures that out


----------



## kramercosmo

I am looking for bluetooth earphones like VX10, SK10. How are these compared to cabled ones in the same price range? Have anyone have bought these and have some review?


----------



## Viber

The quest for old ZSRs continues!


----------



## Viber

kramercosmo said:


> I am looking for bluetooth earphones like VX10, SK10. How are these compared to cabled ones in the same price range? Have anyone have bought these and have some review?



In one word: Avoid.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 8, 2021)

kramercosmo said:


> I am looking for bluetooth earphones like VX10, SK10. How are these compared to cabled ones in the same price range? Have anyone have bought these and have some review?


Haven't try it, but review so far goes "_They have decent SQ but apparently sucks at being tws_" (the sub 2 hour battery, the mic and all).

But they have fix some of the problem with the "Pro" model, which used the more common QC3040 bluetooth chip with APTX for better connection and audio.
The Pro model also have significantly have better battery live from sub 2 hour to near 4 hour.
i think some model adopt cvc 8.0 for better mic, i forgot which.
since the beginning the have game mode so the lag is not that much of a problem.

I'm currently eyeing on KZ SK10 Pro (was waiting for the QC3040 upgrade), Soundpeats Air3, and edifier X3s.
lets see whether the KZ local price will be low enough for beater TWS budget which i kinda blows with unplanned ZEX Pro preorder...

Oh to note, if you wanna buy decent TWS the golden standard now is Lypertek products, Soundpeats H1 pro, and Soundcore Liberty (and other soundcore products)
Or if you wanna cheap beaters, Mpow or Haylou products which i've bought the Haylou GT1XR (the cheapo darling) is ok. not great, i won't called it good, but for the price and function its ok.


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 8, 2021)

More ZEX Pro listening impressions, featuring *YOASOBI's 夜に駆ける*:

The somewhat thin mids are on display again; the piano track comes across as flat
Ikura's vocals are detailed, forward, energetic, with an almost larger-than-life clarity to it
The drums are fast, tight, powerful and - dare I say it - addictive. However, they appear somewhat dampened next to the vocals.
Cymbals are unfortunately barely there - wispy, lacking body, lost in the mix.
Versus the Pioneer CH3T

Piano notes have a softer, more rounded attack on the CH3T; the CH3T has a more organic timbre
Vocals can seem a tad veiled on the CH3T compared to the ZEX Pro, but macrodetail is still acceptable
Drum notes are more prominent on the CH3T, although not necessarily more detailed. Bass decay is slower than on the ZEX Pro.
Cymbals have slightly more body and presence on the CH3T compared to the ZEX Pro.
The ZEX Pro has a wider, though not necessarily deeper, soundstage compared to the CH3T.
Imaging is similar across the ZEX Pro and CH3T (three blobs).
As a sidenote, the final A4000 expectedly wipes the floor with these guys in terms of tonality and technicalities, as it should ($150 vs $30).


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

re: TWS - I don't get why these exist except to copy Apple, which I deplore, thoroughly. They make mediocre gear and sell it at high prices, and people pay it so their life is full of gadget crap in a monotonous color theme to impress their friends.  *yawn*!    

 All of my IEM pairs are wireless ... with a FiiO BTR3K. I've had it for about a year now and use it everyday, and it's been flawless. Battery life is still pretty close to 10 ~ 11 hours. Equally, FiiO BTR5, Qudelux 5k, or one of these new iFi Blue units are much longer lasting in battery supply, have higher quality DAC/Amps with far more power, and they all support LDAC over BT and wired LDAC when used as a dongle to phone or laptop. 

I think KZ's TWS by comparison is in that "good enough for rock" caliber of hifi gear - like a boom box for your ears or a factory radio in an economy car.  KZ's wired units with an upgraded bluetooth device is more like a nice set of studio monitors tuned by a teenager with a new Pink Floyd CD. I love that about KZ's products. 

I also don't know that I could keep IEMs in my ear without the security of the wire loop over the top. the hang-down IEM always fall-out of my big ol' ear caverns. For sure I'd lose one on the first day, too. The wires might get tangled but I've never lost a wired set of IEM yet. (knocks on wood). 

Anyway.  If you have a set of TWS and love 'em, great. I just can't personally relate. 

</old-man-shaking-first-in-the-air>


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 8, 2021)

For convenience, for commuting, and for being able to remove my face mask before eating/drinking without also having to remove my earphones as well, my 1000XM4s are hard to beat. They are not the best sounding gear I own, but if I could only keep one personal audio gadget, the XM4s would be it.

Conversely, a Bluetooth dongle makes little sense to me since it's another device that has to be charged, there's still a cable coming out of it, and yet they're also bottlenecked by Bluetooth audio compression (especially since I use an iPhone). If I'm already dealing with a cable, I'd rather use a battery-less dongle DAC/AMP like my excellent Questyle M12, and get true wired lossless playback.


----------



## r31ya

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> re: TWS - I don't get why these exist except to copy Apple, which I deplore, thoroughly. They make mediocre gear and sell it at high prices, and people pay it so their life is full of gadget crap in a monotonous color theme to impress their friends.  *yawn*!
> 
> All of my IEM pairs are wireless ... with a FiiO BTR3K. I've had it for about a year now and use it everyday, and it's been flawless. Battery life is still pretty close to 10 ~ 11 hours. Equally, FiiO BTR5, Qudelux 5k, or one of these new iFi Blue units are much longer lasting in battery supply, have higher quality DAC/Amps with far more power, and they all support LDAC over BT and wired LDAC when used as a dongle to phone or laptop.
> 
> ...


I bought my haylou gt1xr to experiment, later i gift it to a coworker. Its still being used daily by him. He is the janitor/admin so he wear tws as he clean the office. A wired only going to disturb his cleaning works. 

Personally i use btr5+aria, its beautiful. Even on my motorbike commute. Tough btr5 shows sign of problem. I have saved for a replacement but yeah. No btr5 killer yet.


----------



## Tzennn

Maybe this is the reason why he like zex pro :/


----------



## RCracer777

kramercosmo said:


> I am looking for bluetooth earphones like VX10, SK10. How are these compared to cabled ones in the same price range? Have anyone have bought these and have some review?


I got a SK10 during 11.11 and the only thing I can say is avoid it. It's a shouty mess.

On one side using the 30019 instead of the 30095 and having the BA in the shell and not in the nozzle could be a improvement, but it isn't. As much as some here dislike the 30095 when you hear the 30019 in the SK10 you wish you had a 30095 in the nozzle. I've never found the 30095 to sound metallic but the 30019... it sounds more metallic than smashing two trash can lids together.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tzennn said:


> Maybe this is the reason why he like zex pro :/


FIY: VK4 does indeed have a new tuning.






But KZ themselves have denied ties to QKZ.






I assume that their similarities in tuning and shell might be because they are using the same OEM?


----------



## juli95 (Dec 8, 2021)

I think in China it's quite normal that decent brands have cheaper knock-off brands that try to copy them. And they sometimes have even cheaper knock-off brands trying to copy them.
I know that from the smartphone market, where the popular brand Mi has knock-offs like Umi. And they even have a knock-off called Umidigi. I think QKZ is something similar.


----------



## saldsald

juli95 said:


> I think in China it's quite normal that decent brands have cheaper knock-off brands that try to copy them. And they sometimes have even cheaper knock-off brands trying to copy them.
> I know that from the smartphone market, where the popular brand Mi has knock-offs like Umi. And they even have a knock-off called Umidigi. I think QKZ is something similar.


QKZ stands for Quality Knowledge Zenith I think and it is not a knock-off brand.


----------



## nraymond

juli95 said:


> I think in China it's quite normal that decent brands have cheaper knock-off brands that try to copy them. And they sometimes have even cheaper knock-off brands trying to copy them.
> I know that from the smartphone market, where the popular brand Mi has knock-offs like Umi. And they even have a knock-off called Umidigi. I think QKZ is something similar.


Many years ago (probably about 15 years ago?) I had a company with a booth at E3 in Las Vegas. First time I'd been to E3, and had an opportunity before the crowds got there to check out the the rest of the exhibits. There was a whole separate section of E3 that was mostly companies from China with cheap goods, a lot of them inspired by/imitations of things from better brands. They were companies I had never heard of before, but what surprised me was the sheer number of them. And then I figured if that was just the companies that bothered to fly to Las Vegas and get a booth at E3, there must be even more of them in China. And my understanding is that the lack of regard for intellectual property doesn't just extend from China to the West, but to anyone, including domestic companies in China.


----------



## nraymond

saldsald said:


> QKZ stands for Quality Knowledge Zenith I think and it is not a knock-off brand.


Why not? Just having "Knowledge Zenith" in their name doesn't mean much, and if anything, makes it more likely they are intentionally imitating and creating brand confusion.


----------



## kramercosmo (Dec 8, 2021)

Viber said:


> In one word: Avoid.





r31ya said:


> Haven't try it, but review so far goes "_They have decent SQ but apparently sucks at being tws_" (the sub 2 hour battery, the mic and all).
> 
> But they have fix some of the problem with the "Pro" model, which used the more common QC3040 bluetooth chip with APTX for better connection and audio.
> The Pro model also have significantly have better battery live from sub 2 hour to near 4 hour.
> ...





RCracer777 said:


> I got a SK10 during 11.11 and the only thing I can say is avoid it. It's a shouty mess.
> 
> On one side using the 30019 instead of the 30095 and having the BA in the shell and not in the nozzle could be a improvement, but it isn't. As much as some here dislike the 30095 when you hear the 30019 in the SK10 you wish you had a 30095 in the nozzle. I've never found the 30095 to sound metallic but the 30019... it sounds more metallic than smashing two trash can lids together.



Thank you for your input. Was looking around yesterday and got the feeling that there is alot of problems with TWS, probably need to go way higher than ~50€. I think i will get those bluetooth cables and KZ Zex Pro and maybe go for the Moondrop Aria to use at home, at 16€ for the cable they seem to be worth a try and then i can switch earphones if i want.

Edit: Ended up buying both KZ Zex Pro and ZSN Pro x and the cable


----------



## unifutomaki

A cursory glance at AliExpress will show that QKZ products pretty much use KZ shells and designs lock stock and barrel, except with a different driver configuration, a different but still plausibly similar sounding index name, and a lower price. I expect that there is probably some arrangement whereby they are procuring the shells from the factory where they’re being made (the factory manager doesn’t give a damn as to whether you’re KZ or QKZ, as long as there is spare capacity they want to sell it) and so I completely understand KZ wanting to distance themselves from the entire thing.


----------



## lushmelody

I must say QKZ at least is decent in some stuff

- The package aesthetics are actually okay (better than KZ, imo)
- It comes with 2 sets of eartips (balanced and a bassy I guess... more than KZ)
- There are differences between their DDs (they always show the same graph tho...)


----------



## Viber

kramercosmo said:


> Thank you for your input. Was looking around yesterday and got the feeling that there is alot of problems with TWS, probably need to go way higher than ~50€. I think i will get those bluetooth cables and KZ Zex Pro and maybe go for the Moondrop Aria to use at home, at 16€ for the cable they seem to be worth a try and then i can switch earphones if i want.
> 
> Edit: Ended up buying both KZ Zex Pro and ZSN Pro x and the cable



I think you have made the right choice. 
So far i have ordered 3 pairs of TWS from 3 companies (including VX10) and none of them came close to the sound (and comfort) of my old APTX kz BT cable + ZSR\ZS6.

I'm not familiar with Zex pro or ZSN pro x though so YMMV.


----------



## Kumonomukou

Viber said:


> The quest for old ZSRs continues!



Count me in if they ever restock ZS7. Recently getting BA10 because of similar BA configuration minus DD, and released around same time. I gotta say they're a tad bright for my liking, extra dynamic bass really helps to compensate that KZ brightness.


----------



## droido256

Been listening to Floor Jansen (various bands and solos), Battle Beast, and Lacuna Coil through the AST, direct from IPhone no amp (yet). These are pretty darn good for the price. Just 2 cents after listening to them for a few days. I need to stop, keep losing too much sleep!


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 9, 2021)

*Field-testing the ZEX Pro (Round 3 and conclusions): ワンダー - そらる*

Hissing, lots of thin, weightless, harsh, metallic hissing at the top end with the cymbals, evident within the first 30s. The magnetostat driver is almost assuredly to blame for this.
Vocals are adequately represented. They don't hover above the rest of the mix like female vocals tend, so they sound pretty relaxed and organic, but I'd have appreciated a tad more presence.
Coherency might be an issue here. The lows and lower-mids sound really smooth, pleasing, natural; the mids and upper mids are defined by their clarity and occasional metallic twang, and the treble - well - is a mess.
Comparison with the ZAX (1DD 7BA):

ZAX bass does not hit as hard as the ZEX Pro, nor is it as tight and clean.
Vocals are comparable in terms of detail and presence. Neither the ZAX nor the ZEX Pro are what I would call class-leading for male vocals, but it's perfectly listenable.
The initial striking of the cymbals are discernible on the ZAX, and cymbal notes are more distinct and clearly separated from one another on the ZAX compared the ZEX Pro. The ZAX still presents some hissing in complex sections (especially the crescendo towards the end of the song), but certainly not to the degree that it is present on the ZEX Pro, where it is difficult to ignore.
I perceive a wider soundstage on the ZAX compared to the ZEX Pro, although it's not a world of difference. Instrument separation is clearer on the ZAX than the ZEX Pro.
Comparison with the ZEX (1DD 1MST):

Similar issues with the treble as on the ZEX Pro, though the problem doesn't stand out as much, either because the highs are somewhat rolled off, or because the mids aren't good either
Honkier, hollower sounding vocals on the ZEX as compared to the ZEX Pro. It's like he's singing into a cardboard box.
ZEX bass is slower, more bloated and more midbass focused than on the ZEX Pro, which partly accounts for the deficits in the mids.

Overall, at this point I believe I've heard virtually everything that the ZEX Pro has to offer. The ZEX Pro does a lot right in the lower half of the frequency range, but ultimately stumbles at the finish line - the low-fi treble reproduction and lack of detail in the highs is far from ideal, even at the price. I am not convinced that the magnetostat driver represents a step forward from the treble BA it is supposed to replace. Of course the caveat remains that my music taste, listening experience, and preferences are probably different from yours.

If you don't already have these, I wouldn't rush out to buy one. If you've already ordered these and it's too late to cancel, I would perhaps recommend trying to pair these with a warmer source, because I think the Questyle M12 inadvertently exacerbates the issues with the magnetostat driver in its present form.


----------



## ttorbic

unifutomaki said:


> *Field-testing the ZEX Pro (Round 3 and conclusions): ワンダー - そらる*
> 
> Hissing, lots of thin, weightless, harsh, metallic hissing at the top end with the cymbals, evident within the first 30s. The magnetostat driver is almost assuredly to blame for this.
> Vocals are adequately represented. They don't hover above the rest of the mix like female vocals tend, so they sound pretty relaxed and organic, but I'd have appreciated a tad more presence.
> ...



Thanks a lot for your impressions! I have a few questions:
1. Do your impressions remain the same when you listen indoors at lower volumes?
2. Are you perhaps providing too much power? Jason in his review said he prefers not using his amp ().

Cheers!


----------



## Viber

unifutomaki said:


> *Field-testing the ZEX Pro (Round 3 and conclusions): ワンダー - そらる*
> 
> Hissing, lots of thin, weightless, harsh, metallic hissing at the top end with the cymbals, evident within the first 30s. The magnetostat driver is almost assuredly to blame for this.
> Vocals are adequately represented. They don't hover above the rest of the mix like female vocals tend, so they sound pretty relaxed and organic, but I'd have appreciated a tad more presence.
> ...




Great review, thanks


----------



## nihil23

unifutomaki said:


> *Field-testing the ZEX Pro (Round 3 and conclusions): ワンダー - そらる*
> 
> Hissing, lots of thin, weightless, harsh, metallic hissing at the top end with the cymbals, evident within the first 30s. The magnetostat driver is almost assuredly to blame for this.
> Vocals are adequately represented. They don't hover above the rest of the mix like female vocals tend, so they sound pretty relaxed and organic, but I'd have appreciated a tad more presence.
> ...



Is your impression based only on this song? Or were the other songs from similar genres? I noticed that most of the anime tracks are made quite simply, there are few live instruments, samples and a lot of compression. 
I'm not arguing about tastes, it's just more interesting to read about versatility of zex pro. Cheers, and thanks for sharing


----------



## unifutomaki

ttorbic said:


> Thanks a lot for your impressions! I have a few questions:
> 1. Do your impressions remain the same when you listen indoors at lower volumes?
> 2. Are you perhaps providing too much power? Jason in his review said he prefers not using his amp ().
> 
> Cheers!



Both these impressions as well as my previous posts were done based on indoor listening at a comfortable volume. I don’t think its an issue of too much power because the Questyle M12 is, at the end of the day, an iPhone compatible dongle which means there’s a hard cap on how much power it can draw and thus how much power it can send to the transducers.


----------



## unifutomaki

nihil23 said:


> Is your impression based only on this song? Or were the other songs from similar genres? I noticed that most of the anime tracks are made quite simply, there are few live instruments, samples and a lot of compression.
> I'm not arguing about tastes, it's just more interesting to read about versatility of zex pro. Cheers, and thanks for sharing



Of course I have listened to more than one song, but they are within the same genre. I won’t get into an argument about whether the music I used was appropriate or not, these are the songs I like, and it makes no sense to test something with music I don’t like, you get what I mean?

Besides, if the ZEX Pro already exhibits the problems I mentioned with so called “made quite simply” tracks then how would throwing more complex stuff at it help the case?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

unifutomaki said:


> Of course I have listened to more than one song, but they are within the same genre. I won’t get into an argument about whether the music I used was appropriate or not, these are the songs I like, and it makes no sense to test something with music I don’t like, you get what I mean?
> 
> Besides, if the ZEX Pro already exhibits the problems I mentioned with so called “made quite simply” tracks then how would throwing more complex stuff at it help the case?


I haven't received mine yet, its still in the post. But i bought it on offer at less than 20 pounds, so for that price I'm not expecting to get an IEM that sounds as good as a 500 pound one. 

For 20 quid, I'm sure there is nothing wrong with it. To many people are expecting end game results for little money.

I can't wait to test it against the DQ6.


----------



## nihil23

unifutomaki said:


> Of course I have listened to more than one song, but they are within the same genre. I won’t get into an argument about whether the music I used was appropriate or not, these are the songs I like, and it makes no sense to test something with music I don’t like, you get what I mean?
> 
> Besides, if the ZEX Pro already exhibits the problems I mentioned with so called “made quite simply” tracks then how would throwing more complex stuff at it help the case?


Simple, in the sense of musical mastering and etc, not tastes. I apologize if i offend you, I didn't mean to offend


----------



## XerusKun (Dec 9, 2021)

For anyone who already have a ZEX Pro, I recommend listening to these tracks. The piano and guitar in these track are just beautiful with ZEX Pro, same with the female vocals, I also agree that ZEX Pro needs some refinement in the treble area, and the lower frequencies is one of the areas that ZP hits right.

P.S It's also very detailed likee 😶. This is already the 8th day I'm using the ZEX Pro and everyday I'm falling in love... and yeah there's some problem with the cymbals and the treble is kind of rough, however imho, that problems are offset by how detailed and good the piano, guitars, drums and vocals are.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 10, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> Of course I have listened to more than one song, but they are within the same genre. I won’t get into an argument about whether the music I used was appropriate or not, these are the songs I like, and it makes no sense to test something with music I don’t like, you get what I mean?
> 
> Besides, if the ZEX Pro already exhibits the problems I mentioned with so called “made quite simply” tracks then how would throwing more complex stuff at it help the case?


Yeah, once the FR tuning goes out, my first reaction is whether the driver used by KZ can deliver the FR or whether the FR is hampered by the driver limitation.
BGGAR reviews which he constantly repeat, "FR is great but now they to get better driver" and "cymbal seems off" is kinda telling whats the problem with it.
Still, if its get get close even outperform ZAX in some aspect, i'll be perfectly happy with it. tough mine still yet to arrive.

because harshly speaking currently i'm not planning to spend $70+ of money on higher end KZ (ZAX, AST, ZAS) which still hampered with "good in an angle" thing. (tough CCA CKX is mighty tempting)
Because at that price point, you'll start to see Legacy, Moondrop, Tanchjim, Tin hifi and the rest of middle mainstays which i prefer more.

Now KZ is getting "better" at tuning FR, hopefully the next $70+ is three good driver with the new FR instead of 7 "budget" with old FR.


----------



## unifutomaki

r31ya said:


> Yeah, once the FR tuning goes out, my first reaction is whether the driver used by KZ can deliver the FR or whether the FR is hampered by the driver limitation.
> BGGAR reviews which he constantly repeat, "FR is great but now they to get better driver" and "cymbal seems off" is kinda telling whats the problem with it.
> Still, if its get get close even outperform ZAX in some aspect, i'll be perfectly happy with it. tough mine still yet to arrive.
> 
> ...


You know, I think I’d really be into a KZ that implements this tuning in a single XUN DD set. The XUN DD is legit!


----------



## r31ya

unifutomaki said:


> You know, I think I’d really be into a KZ that implements this tuning in a single XUN DD set. The XUN DD is legit!


Yeah, it seems this apparently "updated" XUN DD is near universally praised.
I would love to see KZ making a single "updated" Xun DD IEM with the same FR of ZEX Pro.
Priced around original ZEX it will fill the hole left by dear departed VK4


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Unpopular opinion:  the "triple magnet" DD in the NRA is better than the XUN in DQ6.  On top of that, at least to my ears, the NRA still sounds cleaner on the bottom end when pushed up by EQ than the DQ6 with better bass texture.   XUN has more volume. I'm really curious to try out ZEX Pro incarnation.


----------



## r31ya

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Unpopular opinion:  the "triple magnet" DD in the NRA is better than the XUN in DQ6.  On top of that, at least to my ears, the NRA still sounds cleaner on the bottom end when pushed up by EQ than the DQ6 with better bass texture.   XUN has more volume. I'm really curious to try out ZEX Pro incarnation.


I forgot who asked it, but i remember someone ask KZ about the Xun dd in ZEX Pro.
Apparently its different than the older Xun, hence i mention it as Updated Xun.

So far pretty high praise for the bass which managed by DD, so yeah. Hoping for the best.


----------



## lushmelody

I'm really curious about the thinnest DD... Which ones a new DQ6 would adopt


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

lushmelody said:


> I'm really curious about the thinnest DD... Which ones a new DQ6 would adopt



That would be the CCA CRA. I was hoping I'd get mine before Christmas but it still hasn't made it to the EU continent.  Since the DQ6 is a triple dynamic, a DD with turbo resonance cabinet strapped to its backside (XUN) makes sense. I think the nuance of these thin diaphragm DDs would be lost with another driver in there. The effortlessness that HM churns out details and treble is really something special that KZ's balanced armatures nor vibrating-dime "EST" can really match right imo.  

At the same time, there is an extra dimension in the imaging and soundstage that I hear in the ZAX and BA10 that the Heart Mirror doesn't have. They each have their own strengths in technicalities but they don't quite line up 1:1.


----------



## Tzennn

Same ultra thin diagram (???), diffrent design. These cost 15$ and have extremely good tuning - detail. Hopefully kz can do the same thing.


----------



## ttorbic

DD in ZEX PRO is the same as DQ6, ZAX, CA16PRO. 

Credit to the OP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2767486680218610/?sfnsn=scwspmo&ref=share.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ttorbic said:


> DD in ZEX PRO is the same as DQ6, ZAX, CA16PRO.
> 
> Credit to the OP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2767486680218610/?sfnsn=scwspmo&ref=share.



ZAX isn't a XUN driver. DQ6 is way tighter and better textured. I think he meant to say ZAS.

Also, NRA has a triple magnet DD, and ZEX has a double magnet design. 

Careful what you read!


----------



## reese170

I'm thinking of getting a BA10 tomorrow during the 12.12 sale. Should I?


----------



## Viber

reese170 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a BA10 tomorrow during the 12.12 sale. Should I?



What 12.12 sale?


----------



## Sebulr

reese170 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a BA10 tomorrow during the 12.12 sale. Should I?


Yes. It's my favourite kz.


----------



## sudosysgen

This whole "The FR is limited by the driver" is COMPLETE bull. That's just not how it works. A good driver will provide a good FR, and a good FR means a good driver, as long as THD is under 1% at n=3 and the phase response isn't a complete mess. We know that FR is 99% of what a speaker does. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to do crazy crap like levitate objects or using precise phase delays to direct sound at a precise point in space with arrays of cheap speakers.

Likely what is happening is a question of the IEM fitting different in one's ear and giving a slightly different frequency response. 

Also, both the Blessing 2 and ZEX Pro use bellsing balanced armatures in the treble. In the bass and low mids, the XUN driver is used which is a normal driver.

As far as the "electrostat", it is in reality just a planar magnetic driver. If the FR is right they will act just like a DD.

Basically this entire talk of the frequency response being limited by the driver makes no sense logically. Take two IEMs with the same frequency response and the same shell shape, with negligble distortion and phase that isn't a complete disaster, and they will sound the same, no matter the driver type. This has been tried over and over. 

Eventually, there will be an IEM that delivers endgame sound at a low price point. All it takes is for a company to have economies of scale and figure out how to tune an IEM. Whether the ZEX Pro are it or not remains to be seen as I haven't tried them yet, but we live in 2021. BA drivers cost 4$ now and not 40$ like they used to be, and the manufacture of small, precise plastic parts with coatings for very cheap is something that we can do reliably. The only remaining reason for very good IEMs to be as expensive as they are is because companies realize that they can charge more and people will think something they paid more for is a lot better, all else being equal (so do I, btw).


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 11, 2021)

Ok, so explain how it is that playing a sine wave through a driver to generate an FR curve is going to determine whether cymbals sound true to life or not, never mind the fact that treble is notoriously difficult to graph accurately and IEC711 couplers are not validated above 10KHz (an issue covered in other threads)



> Also, both the Blessing 2 and ZEX Pro use bellsing balanced armatures in the treble. In the bass and low mids, the XUN driver is used which is a normal driver.
> 
> As far as the "electrostat", it is in reality just a planar magnetic driver. If the FR is right they will act just like a DD.


As for this point, the magnetostat is used for treble in the ZEX Pro. Mids are handled by the BA and bass is handled by the DD. 

I personally do not care whatever magic dust is used to construct whatever KZ is calling an EST but what I know is that it isn’t very good. 

I report what I hear, whether you believe it or not is up to you


----------



## sudosysgen (Dec 11, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> Ok, so explain how it is that playing a sine wave through a driver to generate an FR curve is going to determine whether cymbals sound true to life or not, never mind the fact that treble is notoriously difficult to graph accurately and IEC711 couplers are not validated above 10KHz (an issue covered in other threads)
> 
> 
> As for this point, the magnetostat is used for treble in the ZEX Pro. Mids are handled by the BA and bass is handled by the DD.
> ...



I understood that the planar does not do treble. Looking more carefully at the frequency response of the driver used, it does some of the treble in combination with the BA, which definitely does some treble too, the additional output at 4k and 15k expected from a 30095 driver roughly matches the change in FR from the ZEX to the ZEX pro.

The IEC711 coupler is not validated to *match the human ear* above 10kHz. It is on the other hand still accurate above 10kHz, so you can compare frequency responses and target curves are still fairly accurate as long as the couplers are manufactured accurately. However at that point there is a fair amount of variance between different people.

Now you asked how playing sine waves can determine if a cymbal sounds true to life or not. Believe it or not, we have actually proven mathematically that this is the case

To generate a frequency response, you do not actually play a sine wave. You play every single sine wave that can be played by the headphone. You can then generate a frequency response that is really a table of how the headphone affects any given sine wave.

A mathematician in 18th century France was working on the problem of heat conduction. In order to do so, after realizing that the problem is easy if the temperature across a bar of metal was a sine wave or a sum of sine wave, he tried to figure out if it was possible to turn any function into a sum of sine waves. After some work, he came up with a mathematical device called the Fourier transform, that can take ANY GRAPH, and find a way to add sine waves to make up the exact same graph. It may take an infinite amount of sine waves that are shifted in various ways, but it can be done.

At this point it may be more evident why a frequency response chart can tell if your cymbals sound accurate. The sound of the cymbals is in fact an infinite sum of sine waves, with more or less of a given frequency, all shifted by some amount. When your headphones produce the sound, they will, depending on which frequency the sine waves are, make them louder or quieter in comparison with the infinity of other sine waves, and them sum them all back together.

Now in the real world this isn't all that the headphone does. It can also delay or hasten some frequencies compared to others (ringing, like in the M1060 for example), and can distort sound, but these two are not audible in 90% of modern IEMs.

3blue1brown made a video that can explain the Fourier transform much better than I ever could. I'd recommend seeing it, because it really is one of the most deeply beautiful findings of mathematics that you can understand to a good intuitive level without anything but elementary school level geometry. It's also mighty useful in audio :


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 11, 2021)

Ok then, I mean it’s bold of you to assume I do not know what a Fourier transform is,  how it relates to sound, and why it is worth considering the point that FR is not the be all and end all of auditory perception, but alright 

Even the graph czar has this to say about graphs:



> 1. *A Frequency Response graph is not in any way an indication of good sound quality.* Think of it as flavours, like in ice-cream. The FR is like the branding at the side of the tub telling you the flavour of the ice cream. It’s not going to tell you if it’s good ice cream, but at least you have a way of finding out if it’s the flavour you want.
> 
> 2. *Measurements in this database are raw and based on the IEC60318-4 standard.* If you are going to compare my measurements with others, at least make sure that both equipment are standardised.
> 
> ...


----------



## sudosysgen

unifutomaki said:


> Ok then, I mean it’s bold of you to assume I do not know what a Fourier transform is,  how it relates to sound, and why it is worth considering the point that FR is not the be all and end all of auditory perception, but alright
> 
> Even the graph czar has this to say about graphs:


You asked how a frequency response can decide why an instrument sounds natural or not, I simply answered. This is a forum, if it won't help you it will surely help someone else.

Czar is correct when he says that FR is not a determinant of sound quality. Someone can prefer a vastly different FR to someone else. This is true of the headphone too, just as someone prefers another FR and may find one I like to be horrible, they will prefer another headphone and may find one I like to be horrible. I am neither an objectivist nor a subjectivist. While headphones are machines that can be measured and that can be modeled very precisely and objectively from those measurements, the actual enjoyement of those headphones is purely subjective.

That doesn't change from the fact that frequency response is 90% of the difference between two headphones.


----------



## Nimweth

reese170 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a BA10 tomorrow during the 12.12 sale. Should I?


It is the best KZ, IMO. If you have fairly large ear canals you should be fine as the fit can be a problem for those with small ears.


----------



## PhonoPhi

sudosysgen said:


> I understood that the planar does not do treble. Looking more carefully at the frequency response of the driver used, it does some of the treble in combination with the BA, which definitely does some treble too, the additional output at 4k and 15k expected from a 30095 driver roughly matches the change in FR from the ZEX to the ZEX pro.
> 
> The IEC711 coupler is not validated to *match the human ear* above 10kHz. It is on the other hand still accurate above 10kHz, so you can compare frequency responses and target curves are still fairly accurate as long as the couplers are manufactured accurately. However at that point there is a fair amount of variance between different people.
> 
> ...



The detector in the coupler may be accurate, but what you do miss is the all enclosure resonances, which become nearly impossible to match above the main enclosure resonance at ca. 8 kHz. This is evident for any wind instrument, but especially for a smaller one - piccolo flute and E-flat clarinets - the very high precision in playing and instrument manufacturing required.

What you miss for the one-dimensional frequency graph is all the cross-couplings and overtones. It would be as if when the main tone of a violin and a trumpet are the same - then they could be claimed to be used interchangably


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ZEX Pro are here! I tore open the box and just stuffed 'em into my music holes before the mail lady even finished deliveries on my street.

After 10 minutes of listening I definitely hear the vibrating dime forwardness of the NRA. They have a similar boost in presence. Similar suffering from 12kHz up ... a bit starved for air just like NRA, but maybe not quite to the same degree. The BA is tuned well and I can hear why Harman lovers are digging this set.  

Bass isn't as big as I'd expected over NRA to be honest. I'll have to come back with a better review next week but so far so good. Too early to say with certainty, but on first visit these seem like a definitive upgrade over NRA.


----------



## Ykaep

I just bought the Zex Pro for 12€ using the 12.12 coupons on shopee, cant wait to get my hands on it and see how it does vs the DQ6 I'm currently using


----------



## purplesun

My brief impression on ZEX Pro. Been playing it on Hiby R3 Pro using a balanced KBear brown cable (can't remember the model) and factory ear tips. My existing favourite models from KZ/CCA are: AS10, C16, CKX ands DQ6 (have not bought many IEMs in '21). Music used for the past week was mostly electropop vocals.

The bass is a bit too restraint/controlled for my ears. The treble, imho, sounds a tad splashy and uncontrolled - but I think can be mitigated by listening to different music types. I think it could be OK for acoustic music with less percussive treble content. Mids are probably the most appealing spectrum to my ear.

It won't be joining my KZ/CCA favourites but neither will I be giving them away. Should be decent enough sound signature to appeal to others..


----------



## unifutomaki

ZEX Pro has been sold - happy to move it on to someone who might enjoy it more


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 12, 2021)

Speaking of KZ favourites, the old dependable ZAX is still my favourite KZ. It’s balanced, resolving, open-sounding and has a surprisingly organic treble even with all those BAs.


----------



## trumpethead

unifutomaki said:


> Speaking of KZ favourites, the old dependable ZAX is still my favourite KZ. It’s balanced, resolving, open-sounding and has a surprisingly organic treble even with all those BAs.


It's funny that you call Zax old dependable when it's only been out about a year or so... Time moves fast in Chifi World...Lol


----------



## unifutomaki

trumpethead said:


> It's funny that you call Zax old dependable when it's only been out about a year or so... Time moves fast in Chifi World...Lol


Haha, given the speed at which KZ releases new models, it does feel like the ZAX has been around a long time! Still very much worth picking up though, IMO


----------



## Viber (Dec 12, 2021)

Am i the only one who finds the Xun bass...boring?

I mean, it might be nice in slow genres because it sounds kinda expensive for some reason.   In Electronic music i find it a bit too slow and ummm round(?)
It lacks energy for me, doesn't make my head bob and i'm not sure why.


----------



## Tzennn (Dec 12, 2021)

Viber said:


> Am i the only one who finds the Xun bass...boring?
> 
> I mean, it might be nice in slow genres because it sounds kinda expensive for some reason.   In Electronic music i find it a bit too slow and ummm round(?)
> It lacks energy for me, doesn't make my head bob and i'm not sure why.


Xun driver always have a nice rumble/texture when it hits, it sound slow and boomy sometimes but in general  xun driver is more appealing for beginner
Edit: especially for pop listener like most people do. Xun sound crazy good


----------



## Viber

Tzennn said:


> Xun driver always have a nice rumble/texture when it hits, it sound slow and boomy sometimes but in general  xun driver is more appealing for beginner
> Edit: especially for pop listener like most people do. Xun sound crazy good



Yea i like the rumble and texture, it sounds more expensive than it is for sure.  Just lacks excitement and sharpness, sounds too wide and round in a way.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I'm in a small minority, but to my ears the CCA NRA has the best bottom end of any KZ product. A close 2nd place is BA10.  Ymmv, etc etc


----------



## nihil23

Some impressions about cca cra on fb, seems overreacting a bit, but still very interesting. Mine still on the way, eh


----------



## droido256 (Dec 12, 2021)

So far in comparison to the lcdi3, isine10. I’m preferring the AST in music styles of Static-X/Wayne Static, and well metal in general, the speed of BA really shines. However in bass and treble and soundstage the LCDi3 still over broad genres simply is just king. Good gawd the bass on the lcdi3 is almost dangerous. However on speed they’re a little more laid back. So I really do have give props to KZ, granted it takes 12 drives but they can hold their own against a heavy hitter like Audeze. To me that does speak volumes, or least to the versatility of the BA driver.


----------



## Viber

nihil23 said:


> Some impressions about cca cra on fb, seems overreacting a bit, but still very interesting. Mine still on the way, eh



If you look closely, there are several reasons to take this review with a grain of salt.  I'd wait for something less biased.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Viber said:


> If you look closely, there are several reasons to take this review with a grain of salt.  I'd wait for something less biased.


For granted. The "unbiased opinions" in lieu  of free samples...
Yet, the price/excitment ratio feels more acceptable


----------



## droido256

droido256 said:


> So far in comparison to the lcdi3, isine10. I’m preferring the AST in music styles of Static-X/Wayne Static, and well metal in general, the speed of BA really shines. However in bass and treble and soundstage the LCDi3 still over broad genres simply is just king. Good gawd the bass on the lcdi3 is almost dangerous. However on speed they’re a little more laid back. So I really do have give props to KZ, granted it takes 12 drives but they can hold their own against a heavy hitter like Audeze. To me that does speak volumes, or least to the versatility of the BA driver.


Switching to Lacuna Coil, while the music itself is perfect with that damn perfect on speed. They don’t put enough heft behind Cristina Scabbia’s voice. They do well with Andrea Ferro tho. Weird


----------



## Viber

PhonoPhi said:


> For granted. The "unbiased opinions" in lieu  of free samples...
> Yet, the price/excitment ratio feels more acceptable



You can't shi* on something you got as a review sample imo, BUT his other claims about KZ making big advancements this year which is not true, the "kz haters" stuff and the way he basically described a great 100$ pair when he talks about an experimental 10$ pair...those are red flags for me.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Viber said:


> You can't shi* on something you got as a review sample imo, BUT his other claims about KZ making big advancements this year which is not true, the "kz haters" stuff and the way he basically described a great 100$ pair when he talks about an experimental 10$ pair...those are red flags for me.


Not arguing about red flags...
Just in my book of jungles, getting $10 IEM and hoping/feeling for $100 is much more acceptable than advising/pretending that $100 cable would make a difference compared to a properly measuring $10 cable.


----------



## nihil23

Viber said:


> If you look closely, there are several reasons to take this review with a grain of salt.  I'd wait for something less biased.


That's why I said "overreacting", because I have seen similar "impressions" in reviews topics and one gk topic. "Bang for a buck" euphemism is very common in most reviews communities, imho


----------



## r31ya

I hate when company advertise, "_This $10 iemsounds as good as a $100 iem."_
There was a new gadget company entering my town and during pc fair, they plastered that slogan everywhere.
I tried it, it was soo muddy, i can't believe it. my cheap Phillips and JVC (haven't found chi-fi at the time) sounds leagues away cleaner than that. It does have stupid amount of crappy muddy bass so maybe that is they one the tried to advertise?

---
When it comes to Xun, i'm pretty hyped about because the older KZ dd bass while thight and fast, it was textureless and blunted. even the ZS10 Pro have that problem. KZ ZS7 is the one a bit nicer, but just a bit.
For me (i don't buy every kz, and covids f*cks with store audition), DQ6 with its Xun give KZ its proper texture.
I do complain that it was "slow" but everyone said it is fast.
And then i realize as i played slipknot with its double pedal, it wasn't the impact that is slow as it can to a degree keep up with the double pedal impact. The problem that the long soundtails, the boominess, from the first impact smear the second impact and so on.
I thought it was tuning thing, but it seems most Xun equipped iem so far have similar complaint so yea.

Haven't tried the NRA tough, i was waiting for the next iteration but i don't expect KZ ditch their new DD in ZEX and ZEX Pro.
And now CCA have even newer DD.


----------



## RikudouGoku

FIY regarding that one hype post.

It got reposted on the KZ server by their rep. So yeah...


----------



## r31ya (Dec 12, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> FIY regarding that one hype post.
> 
> It got reposted on the KZ server by their rep. So yeah...


The review composition feels like an Ads or at least "Super fan letter" somehow so yeah.
I simply mention it in CCA forum as "early Influencer Impression" and didn't even bother to link it.

...People review IEMs in Facebook? what the?
Well, i was never part of Facebook thing other than for job related thing. But people review iems on facebook?

So sorry, this ZEX Pro review hunts brings me to a place i never touch.


----------



## Viber

I noticed that same guy earlier said the CA16PRO are a 10/10 which is a wild exaggeration.  To me, it means everyone should completely ignore his impressions regarding the CRA.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Viber said:


> I noticed that same guy earlier said the CA16PRO are a 10/10 which is a wild exaggeration.  To me, it means everyone should completely ignore his impressions regarding the CRA.


I’m listening to my CCA CA16 right now. Not new Pro version. I’ve got westone silicone tips on it for excellent isolation and comfort. Sound is fantastic. This a great KZ IEM!


----------



## XerusKun (Dec 13, 2021)

There's already a graph (Credits to Krampt at Youtube) of the CRA floating in the KZ groups. Kind of a rough graph, however I think it is still a good indication of how the CRA graphs with the other KZ.

Blue-ZEX Pro, Violet- CCA CRA, Yellow-EDX Pro


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

XerusKun said:


> There's already a graph (Credits to Krampt at Youtube) of the CRA floating in the KZ groups. Kind of a rough graph, however I think it is still a good indication of how the CRA graphs with the other KZ.


emmm but where CRA graph?  CRA green but no green line on graph


----------



## XerusKun

Mr.HiAudio said:


> emmm but where CRA graph?  CRA green but no green line on graph


I dunno why Krampt color coded it like that but the violet line is the CRA while the blue line is the ZEX Pro.


----------



## r31ya

Interesting 5k spike, what instrument on that frequency?


----------



## XerusKun

r31ya said:


> Interesting 5k spike, what instrument on that frequency?


Violins, drums kick/snap, electric guitars..also vocals 's'. Kind of worried about that region I hope it is just a resonance peak.

Aside from that peak, I'm more pump with that bass glide to the mids..


----------



## Viber

InvisibleInk said:


> I’m listening to my CCA CA16 right now. Not new Pro version. I’ve got westone silicone tips on it for excellent isolation and comfort. Sound is fantastic. This a great KZ IEM!



They are pretty different from what i gathered.  Paul Wasabi made a comp where he chose the original CA16 over the pro.   They named it CA16pro just to ride on the success of the original it seems.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 13, 2021)

Viber said:


> They are pretty different from what i gathered.  Paul Wasabi made a comp where he chose the original CA16 over the pro.   They named it CA16pro just to ride on the success of the original it seems.


What is super wrong with CCA16 pro? I thought they are just a direct ZAS copy - ample bass, tamed treble, new KZ...

(I used to be a CCA pokemon collector, but they totally lost me at some point. I also stopped hybrid acquisitions - a great pair of ZAX and CA16 feels fully sufficient. I would so much wish KZ make an IEM with a  bass BA replacing the DD in ZAX...)

It is quite a bit amazing to me - no matter what KZ does - still not good - sparkly treble, tamed treble, $10 IEMs that sound like $100 one - still no good for those critics


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

droido256 said:


> So far in comparison to the lcdi3, isine10. I’m preferring the AST in music styles of Static-X/Wayne Static, and well metal in general, the speed of BA really shines.



BA10 is great for metal as well. There are dump-truck loads of fast bass on tap \m/  I'm more of a doom/sludge guy - High on Fire, Sleep, Melvins, Neurosis etc.  It's glorious.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> (I used to be a CCA pokemon collector, but they totally lost me at some point. I also stopped hybrid acquisitions - a great pair of ZAX and CA16 feels fully sufficient. I would so much wish KZ make an IEM with a bass BA replacing the DD in ZAX...)


Totally.  To @unifutomaki's point earlier also, I think the ZAX has the best BA combination of all my KZ pairs. On a balanced source with some EQ, the ZAX is still one of the most transparent and nuanced sets in my, errrmmm, my wife's possession  

ZAX is hampered with the older tech's DD in there; it's competent but it could be better. I've pondered a few times of trying graft a XUN from a donor pair of DQ6 into the ZAX and to see what happens. I would love to put an NRA DD in there but I'm not sure the case would be compatible after extracting the MST unit off the stack. 



PhonoPhi said:


> It is quite a bit amazing to me - no matter what KZ does - still not good - sparkly treble, tamed treble, $10 IEMs that sound like $100 one - still no good for those critics



 The hypocrisy is a bit breathtaking. Penon just dropped a new triple dynamic that's being fawned all over. I am tempted to burn the $300 just to find out if it's actually better than DQ6. Like the expensive single DD units over $300, over $500 that were taking victory laps in the reviews earlier this year - I just can't imagine something being that much (if any) better than Heart-Mirror with a couple simple DAC/EQ tweaks to suit personal tastes in tuning. I can't say for sure because I haven't tried yet. Diving down the single DD rabbit hole is next year's project. 

On the other side of the coin, there's a danger here, too, of falling into "Budget Chad" mentality that is constantly unimpressed with superior gear based solely on the price tag. That's just plain ol' cognitive bias at work.  If anything I believe that KZ has ruthlessly attacked the midfi segment, even among other chifi makers, that hasruled the roost for best cost/performance ratio. Big brands like Sony, JBL, and Sennheiser have all lost their claim on the midfi segment to chifi startups, so we're seeing quite a retail battle between price categories in chifi, often within the same company who launched premium subbrands for higher cost products.  Whether the critics are happy or not, it's a great time to be an audio enthusiast.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 13, 2021)

PhonoPhi said:


> What is super wrong with CCA16 pro? I thought they are just a direct ZAS copy - ample bass, tamed treble, new KZ...
> 
> (I used to be a CCA pokemon collector, but they totally lost me at some point. I also stopped hybrid acquisitions - a great pair of ZAX and CA16 feels fully sufficient. I would so much wish KZ make an IEM with a  bass BA replacing the DD in ZAX...)
> 
> It is quite a bit amazing to me - no matter what KZ does - still not good - sparkly treble, tamed treble, $10 IEMs that sound like $100 one - still no good for those critics


Personally as someone just audition CA16, i was hyped that CCA CA16 Pro will be a refinement of CCA CA16 sound signature which are liked by a lot of people and somewhat reminds buyer, yup this is CCA style of tuning not a KZs.

Instead its a completely different iem, its a CCA version of ZAS. Pretty sure CA16Pro is at least decent but i have tried it or bother to research it after i found out the graph is closer to ZAS over CA16.

I mean, give it different name. CCA CAS or something not CA16Pro.


----------



## RikudouGoku

XerusKun said:


> There's already a graph (Credits to Krampt at Youtube) of the CRA floating in the KZ groups. Kind of a rough graph, however I think it is still a good indication of how the CRA graphs with the other KZ.
> 
> Blue-ZEX Pro, Violet- CCA CRA, Yellow-EDX Pro


Keep in mind that is with the Dayton mic. So take it with a bigger grain of salt than usual.


----------



## Viber

PhonoPhi said:


> What is super wrong with CCA16 pro? I thought they are just a direct ZAS copy - ample bass, tamed treble, new KZ...
> 
> (I used to be a CCA pokemon collector, but they totally lost me at some point. I also stopped hybrid acquisitions - a great pair of ZAX and CA16 feels fully sufficient. I would so much wish KZ make an IEM with a  bass BA replacing the DD in ZAX...)
> 
> It is quite a bit amazing to me - no matter what KZ does - still not good - sparkly treble, tamed treble, $10 IEMs that sound like $100 one - still no good for those critics



This is my recommended EQ for them, nuff said





I think the ZSR should have been it's own series and a staple for them moving on.  They just needed to perfect the tuning,shell and drivers over time and you got a simple winner.
 That design of putting the BAs right behind the filter made sure no sounds were dancing around in the shell creating shouty voices,whistles and so on.  The DD behind them was kinda blocked from broadcasting conflicting sounds because the BAs blocked most of the space in the nozzle, so that DD acted mainly as a subwoofer.

They did nothing 'very good', but they were 'good' at everything.
They didnt distort or burn my ears with shouty sounds....  Like listening to a good ,mid fi, 2.1 speaker system.  If ZSR v1 was still being sold i woulda bought at least 2 more.

The ZS6 were also great, just needed more refinements and better drivers down the line.


----------



## Insider K

Any suggestions or favorite EQ for ZEX Pro, for some low end elevation and possibly bringing a bit more energy.


----------



## Nimweth (Dec 13, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Totally.  To @unifutomaki's point earlier also, I think the ZAX has the best BA combination of all my KZ pairs. On a balanced source with some EQ, the ZAX is still one of the most transparent and nuanced sets in my, errrmmm, my wife's possession
> 
> ZAX is hampered with the older tech's DD in there; it's competent but it could be better. I've pondered a few times of trying graft a XUN from a donor pair of DQ6 into the ZAX and to see what happens. I would love to put an NRA DD in there but I'm not sure the case would be compatible after extracting the MST unit off the stack.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have compared the DDs in the NRA and CSN, different bass drivers and I prefer the NRA's triple magnetic DD, it is faster than the XUN with better texture but still has plenty of depth. I haven't heard the "new" XUN though.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ EDX Pro: Similar to the DQ6 but with more bass quantity (worse quality), not as peaky treble but less air and overall technicalities are below the DQ6.















KZ ZEX Pro: Tuning is very atypical of KZ. Going for a more balanced tonality, without recessed mids. Bass is slightly elevated and does have pretty good texture (although not as good as the DQ6). Mids are not recessed/forward, but more neutral. Treble is where it needs more work though, as the upper-treble is lacking air and extension, while it is a bit harsh overall due to the 4,5k area and there is a real peak at around 8k. Overall resolution isnt much different from the other KZ´s, it is around the DQ6 level.


----------



## Tzennn

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ EDX Pro: Similar to the DQ6 but with more bass quantity (worse quality), not as peaky treble but less air and overall technicalities are below the DQ6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems hard to dethrone the DQ6 eh ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tzennn said:


> Seems hard to dethrone the DQ6 eh ?


Hahaha, yeah indeed. People are pushing for a collab between me and KZ though, so maybe that potential model could surpass the DQ6.


----------



## ttorbic

Is there a way to check if the DD in DQ6 is actually different to ZEX Pro? Has anyone asked KZ directly? A buddy of mine opened both up and took photos of the drivers and said they at least _look _identical.


----------



## RikudouGoku

ttorbic said:


> Is there a way to check if the DD in DQ6 is actually different to ZEX Pro? Has anyone asked KZ directly? A buddy of mine opened both up and took photos of the drivers and said they at least _look _identical.


They are different. Their rep has said that on their discord I believe. 



oh and btw, seems that the stock tips on the ZEX Pro are actually clear starline tips. 

Not on the EDX Pro though.


----------



## ttorbic

RikudouGoku said:


> They are different. Their rep has said that on their discord I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok! Looking forward to your review


----------



## RikudouGoku

Alright, here is the Version 1 mod for the EDX Pro. Stuff in 2 pieces of LOW-density tuning foams (not high density like on the DQ6).


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

My ZEX Pro will be delivered tomorrow. I'll compare it to my DQ6 and let you know my thoughts. DQ6 bass and mids are good though, so the Pro has a lot to live up to.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

RikudouGoku said:


> They are different. Their rep has said that on their discord I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you rate the starlines? Is that your point?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Capo Dei Capi said:


> So you rate the starlines? Is that your point?


Starlines are good stock tips. It seemed like KZ moved away from them for a while, but they do still exist.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

RikudouGoku said:


> Starlines are good stock tips. It seemed like KZ moved away from them for a while, but they do still exist.


I bought the DQ6 on your advice, and it hasn't been a disappointment. I'm hoping the Pro is even better.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I bought the DQ6 on your advice, and it hasn't been a disappointment. I'm hoping the Pro is even better.


ZEX Pro? Well, if you have a similar preference to mine, then....uh.....


----------



## Viber

RikudouGoku said:


> ZEX Pro? Well, if you have a similar preference to mine, then....uh.....



DQ6 vs BL01 vs BL03

Which one wins, in your opinion?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> DQ6 vs BL01 vs BL03
> 
> Which one wins, in your opinion?


DQ6 + high-density tuning foams.


----------



## Viber

RikudouGoku said:


> DQ6 + high-density tuning foams.



Damn, didnt know they are that highly regarded


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> Damn, didnt know they are that highly regarded


I have them at S- after all.


----------



## ttorbic

Decided to sell my KZ ZEX Pro. Essentially new: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/kz-zex-pro-basically-new.16280/. Wanted to try out a tribrid but it doesn't have a place in my collection. Selling within UK and maybe to Europe.


----------



## Viber

RikudouGoku said:


> I have them at S- after all.



What is a modded BL03?  what do you think about BL01?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> What is a modded BL03?  what do you think about BL01?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blo...ressions-thread.916702/page-182#post-15531900

01 review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/blon-bl-01.24799/reviews#review-24867


----------



## Tzennn (Dec 13, 2021)

Viber said:


> What is a modded BL03?  what do you think about BL01?


Personally i still use blon bl01 more than dq6 because of the mid bass boost (rock/metal/vocal), also... wings, it's hurt after a while. Blon bl01 have a good tuning but tech is not good, mid bass too prominent, -3db on bassself would be good. Blon 03 aged really well but i think it's already time to move on so... How about tanchjim tanya?
Edit: btw i like harman curve so it's kind of bias a little bit


----------



## Viber

Tzennn said:


> Personally i still use blon bl01 more than dq6 because of the mid bass boost (rock/metal/vocal), also... wings, it's hurt after a while. Blon bl01 have a good tuning but tech is not good, mid bass too prominent, -3db on bassself would be good. Blon 03 aged really well but i think it's already time to move on so... How about tanchjim tanya?
> Edit: btw i like harman curve so it's kind of bias a little bit



Thanks for your input.  I'm looking for something with a 2pin connection (bt considerations) and i got 20$ store credit to burn on linsoul.

Is the blon 03 better than the 01? I noticed it's more expensive.


----------



## Tzennn

Viber said:


> Thanks for your input.  I'm looking for something with a 2pin connection (bt considerations) and i got 20$ store credit to burn on linsoul.
> 
> Is the blon 03 better than the 01? I noticed it's more expensive.


Blon 03 is better than blon 01 but for me (as i said i like harman curve) the tuning of blon03 isn't great (also dq6). They highly praise for their timbre - warmness - full neutral vocal that even 100$ iem can't compete. That said if you like some oldschool, rock, metal, rap, both blon 03 and dq6 will do a good job, maybe blon slightly better because of warmness/ neutral vocal/timbre. Just buy both tho lol


----------



## TheVortex

Here is my take on the ZEX Pro. I wonder what they will do next?


----------



## r31ya

Insider K said:


> Any suggestions or favorite EQ for ZEX Pro, for some low end elevation and possibly bringing a bit more energy.


not quite eq, and mine still on the port and haven't move.
but the other forum suggest wide bore tips or moondrop springtips.
something to do with its treble.


----------



## baskingshark

Tzennn said:


> Personally i still use blon bl01 more than dq6 because of the mid bass boost (rock/metal/vocal), also... wings, it's hurt after a while. Blon bl01 have a good tuning but tech is not good, mid bass too prominent, -3db on bassself would be good. Blon 03 aged really well but i think it's already time to move on so... How about tanchjim tanya?
> Edit: btw i like harman curve so it's kind of bias a little bit



Tanya is a sidegrade or at most a marginal upgrade to the BLON BL-03. Both have a smooth lush analoguish sound, going for timbre and tonality over technical performance.
Tanya perhaps has a bit more bite in the 3 kHz upper mids area.

Tanya however, needs amping, it sounds meh from a low powered source. Tanya also has a non detachable cable, which can be a deal breaker for some.

But the issue with the BLON BL-03, is that people need to spend a bit more to secure better eartips +/- cables due to the poor fitting issues for it. So that adds to costs, and the BLON BL-03 is no longer sub $30 USD but much more with the aftermarket accessories added in.




Viber said:


> Thanks for your input.  I'm looking for something with a 2pin connection (bt considerations) and i got 20$ store credit to burn on linsoul.
> 
> Is the blon 03 better than the 01? I noticed it's more expensive.



BL-01 is a marginal upgrade over the BL-03 in technicalities, but the fit is iffy, and it also needs amping to scale better. Timbre wise I think the BL-03 is still better.

Like the Tanchjim Tanya mentioned above (and this BL-01), it is kinda hard to recommend a $20 IEM if you need to pair a $200 amp with them to make them scale to their potential.


----------



## saldsald (Dec 14, 2021)

Hi guys, got my CRA and have it measured:

Updated packaing. Interesting to have a KZ logo on the cable packaging.

Measurement done with Spinfit CP100 and not the stock cable.
I feel that this new DD has great potential, very tight sounding so far.

Edit: It sounds really nice with the White Crane.


----------



## Tzennn

saldsald said:


> Hi guys, got my CRA and have it measured:
> 
> Updated packaing.
> 
> ...


Harman CCA ? FR looks same as VK4


----------



## saldsald

Tzennn said:


> Harman CCA ? FR looks same as VK4


Not sure but sure it is better than the EDX / EDX Pro and NRA to my ear. (Skipped the ZEX and ZEX Pro). Great potential for putting the DD in a metal shell to improve the sound.


----------



## evasb

saldsald said:


> Not sure but sure it is better than the EDX / EDX Pro and NRA to my ear. (Skipped the ZEX and ZEX Pro). Great potential for putting the DD in a metal shell to improve the sound.


What about the BASS, sounds detailed?


----------



## saldsald (Dec 13, 2021)

evasb said:


> What about the BASS, sounds detailed?


Edit: quite detailed but not a lot of quanitity and the treble is still kind of dominating. No sibilance but probably a bit too sharp/dry at the moment without much burn in.
Works quite well with copper cables, silver containing cables may sound a bit sharp that's why it comes with a stock copper cable I guess.


----------



## 1clearhead

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'm in a small minority, but to my ears the CCA NRA has the best bottom end of any KZ product. A close 2nd place is BA10.  Ymmv, etc etc


+1...And "wide-bore" ear tips really does the trick for me! Nice textured low bass! 

-Clear


----------



## Viber

saldsald said:


> Not sure but sure it is better than the EDX / EDX Pro and NRA to my ear. (Skipped the ZEX and ZEX Pro). Great potential for putting the DD in a metal shell to improve the sound.



Are the mids shouty? How does it handle bright synths and electric guitars at high volume?


----------



## saldsald

Viber said:


> Are the mids shouty? How does it handle bright synths and electric guitars at high volume?


No, the treble can be a little and slightly thin in the mids however, depending on your gear. Source + Cable + Tips can change your mileage greatly.
I don't listen at high volume but Joe Satriani sounds pretty good. I only find it ocassionally thin for some violin tracks, other than that I have nothing at all to complain about the CRA.


----------



## Viber

saldsald said:


> No, the treble can be a little and slightly thin in the mids however, depending on your gear. Source + Cable + Tips can change your mileage greatly.
> I don't listen at high volume but Joe Satriani sounds pretty good. I only find it ocassionally thin for some violin tracks, other than that I have nothing at all to complain about the CRA.



Will it play well with bt cables/az09pro or is it actually that picky with source?

What do you mean by 'thin' violins? Are the violins harsh to your ears?

Speaking of Satriani, can it actually survive the 'God is crying' stress test?


----------



## saldsald

Viber said:


> Will it play well with bt cables/az09pro or is it actually that picky with source?


It is not that picky but definitely will benefit from a matching cable with smoother treble and more forward mids and I happen to have a few. If you don't listen to violin I bet it won't be a problem at all. 


Viber said:


> What do you mean by 'thin' violins? Are the violins harsh to your ears?


There is not enough body making the violin sounds less nasal than it should be, well, at least to my ears and can get a little bit of treble fatigue.



Viber said:


> Speaking of Satriani, can it actually survive the 'God is crying' stress test?


No problem at all. I listened to both Unstoppable Momentum and Black Swans and Wormhole Wizards today and it sounded as good as my BQEYZ Autumn. Oops.


----------



## dimazbaik

Maybe to late to review, but i had a KZ ZST Pro, and truthfully... One of my best buy after the hifiman series... 

Got back here after long long time ago

Why i am posting here? Obviously after buy other iem ( and Bluetooth one, and tei) everything after kz series feels like a flop One

Got the treble and the good amount of the bass.

And i would put them on good case as my treasures

I am stuck with you guys


----------



## Tzennn (Dec 14, 2021)

dimazbaik said:


> Maybe to late to review, but i had a KZ ZST Pro, and truthfully... One of my best buy after the hifiman series...
> 
> Got back here after long long time ago
> 
> ...


I feel you. Nothing can beat kz zst pro/ zsn pro.
"The only way you can feel the music is F the music" - My impression when i listen with it for the first time
Edit: sound harsh but if you have kz zst pro/zsn, you know what i mean... Love that piercing tho


----------



## dimazbaik

Tzennn said:


> I feel you. Nothing can beat kz zst pro/ zsn pro.
> "The only way you can feel the music is F the music" - My impression when i listen with it for the first time
> Edit: sound harsh but if you have kz zst pro/zsn, you know what i mean... Love that piercing tho


Thanks bro, sincerely, i wanna buy kz tws too but heard from other that kz tws not worth to the Buck's, some here had one iem not working, or stop charging and can't buy box replacement.. 

Maybe they charging it with fast charger breaking the batt... 

So i buy the one who have 2 year guarantee 🤣🤣

But seriously i treasure those kZ as long as they team cables


----------



## evasb




----------



## r31ya (Dec 14, 2021)

evasb said:


>


in comparison with ZEX PRO


----------



## lushmelody

That 5k...


----------



## Viber

saldsald said:


> It is not that picky but definitely will benefit from a matching cable with smoother treble and more forward mids and I happen to have a few. If you don't listen to violin I bet it won't be a problem at all.
> 
> There is not enough body making the violin sounds less nasal than it should be, well, at least to my ears and can get a little bit of treble fatigue.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your answers.  Have you tried foam tips? i would actually try the cheap smooth ones...


----------



## Viber

Interesting...


----------



## kennyhack

Interesting... CCA CRA vs Blon 03


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Okay here's my take on the ZEX Pro compared to the DQ6. I changed the tips to cheap amazon ones and a 16 core cable.

Tried them for only 40 minutes on various different styles of music. Rock, pop, dance, female - male vocals, acoustic, live, etc.

First off they fitted my ears perfectly, as i think they are slightly smaller than the DQ6.
I'm no expert but to my ears the turning is near perfect. Without even burning them in, they sounded excellent from the first song. (the DQ6 took a few days after burn in to really sound good.)
Bass is slightly better than the DQ6. More bassey in my opinion, which i think i prefer.
Mids and treble are noticeably better.
Mine were perfectly balanced without any QC problems.
I'm not sure if i got a perfectly made pair, but i am seriously impressed with the ZEX Pro.
I'm also not sure why people are complaining about them, how much more do you expect for 20 quid. I got a free carry case and foam tips.
Haven't found them to be fatiguing at all.
Can't wait to see what they're like after burn in.
Best KZ i have tried. (although i only own 3, so that's not saying much)
I'm sure the new DD is better than the DQ6 as well.  Not sure whether the electrostatic does much, but i find it clearer in the mids to highs than the DQ6.

Only downside i can find is they need a bit more grunt to run them.

I'll do some more tests later in the week.


----------



## saldsald

Viber said:


> Thank you for your answers.  Have you tried foam tips? i would actually try the cheap smooth ones...


No I have tried many tips except foam due to hygiene   . I prefer Spinfit tips and almost only use CP100, CP100+ and CP360 now.


----------



## r31ya

saldsald said:


> No I have tried many tips except foam due to hygiene   . I prefer Spinfit tips and almost only use CP100, CP100+ and CP360 now.


i wear foam tips for a week before family member told me, _"Throw that away, its disgusting"_
btw anyone have tried the new foam/silicone hybrid tips?


----------



## Aparker2005

I was just about to ask what the recommendations were for new tips. Love the isolating foams, but anything newer now that gives good isolation and bass response that's better than foam? I'm out of the tips game nowadays.


----------



## Tzennn

Aparker2005 said:


> I was just about to ask what the recommendations were for new tips. Love the isolating foams, but anything newer now that gives good isolation and bass response that's better than foam? I'm out of the tips game nowadays.


Final type E/sony ep ex11/kz starlight


----------



## evasb

ZEX Pro is a KZ x Crinacle collab.


----------



## independent

Wasn't going to buy KZ again after bad QC with my ASX but got sucked in to the hype around the ZEX Pro at the 11.11 sale. 

My preference is for ultra high resolution IEMs with excellent sub bass and a smooth (not shrill) high end.

The sub bass is fantastic. Nice and resolving. Not as good as the ASX in either the resolution department or the sub-bass department but no complaints. The mids sound forward like the ASX which I don't mind personally. There's graphs around showing a spike at 8kHz with the ZEX pro and I've convinced myself I can hear it. That's the only downside I can hear. I refuse to EQ lol. Wondering if these will change in sound over time. Only got a few hours in. The ASX changed hugely over time and I really feel that wasn't a placebo effect.

I prefer the sub-bass of the ZEX pro and resolution of it to the ZS7 and generally pleased with the purchase. Comfort is great too (better than ASX obvs )

On the ASX, I have never heard anything as resolving before. My understanding is all BA IEMs can have an analytical quality. With a decent dac in this case, the Saba Da3 I can really distinguish between so so, good and excellent recordings with ease. It's really something to hear. When you get a good recording you just want to listen and relisten to it. Only if the product support (from Ali) and QC was better such an amazing IEM.

Curious if the BA10 has the same amazing resolution and sub bass as the ASX? I've heard here the sub bass on that unit is really top notch.


----------



## MacAttack7

independent said:


> Wasn't going to buy KZ again after bad QC with my ASX but got sucked in to the hype around the ZEX Pro at the 11.11 sale.
> 
> My preference is for ultra high resolution IEMs with excellent sub bass and a smooth (not shrill) high end.
> 
> ...


I had that bad QC wobbly connector problem with my ASF. Must be the same issue.
I don't think it has affected anything other than annoying my brain worrying about it.
Has it affected your ASX?


----------



## baskingshark

evasb said:


> ZEX Pro is a KZ x Crinacle collab.







Straight from the horse's mouth.

No wonder ZEX Pro has a very atypical graph for a KZ!! Was wondering how did KZ's tuning suddenly improve to become an audiophile graph overnight!


----------



## unifutomaki

baskingshark said:


> Straight from the horse's mouth.
> 
> No wonder ZEX Pro has a very atypical graph for a KZ!! Was wondering how did KZ's tuning suddenly improve to become an audiophile graph overnight!


Even more interestingly, they’re finally calling the “EST” what it is 😂😂 but only on the crinacle version





The standard ZEX Pro product page:


----------



## Tzennn

Ok now i regret buying heart mirror. Help


----------



## baskingshark

unifutomaki said:


> Even more interestingly, they’re finally calling the “EST” what it is 😂😂 but only on the crinacle version
> 
> 
> 
> The standard ZEX Pro product page:



LOL!

Haha when the company has a big name signed off on it, maybe their marketing crew decided not to take too many creative liberties. Better to call a spade a spade.



Tzennn said:


> Ok now i regret buying heart mirror. Help



I haven't heard the ZEX Pro, but single DDs like the Heart Mirror are generally very different from a hybrid/multi driver set like ZEX Pro. You will likely be getting a different tuning and a complementary set.

I still think the Heart Mirror are one of the best sub $100 USD single DDs on the market!


----------



## Tzennn

Quote:
Dusk is the best sub 500$ iem ... Period
Eclipse is the best sub 200$ iem... Period
CRN is the best sub 50$ iem...
PERIOD


----------



## XerusKun

Tzennn said:


> Ok now i regret buying heart mirror. Help


I have both the ZEX Pro and HM, in my opinion  they both fill different niches, ZEX Pro being focused on the lower frequencies while HM focused on the sparkle and upper treble. They are on par with each other and both complement each other well.


----------



## Tzennn

Is CRN just ZEX pro with crinacle logo on it ?


----------



## unifutomaki

Tzennn said:


> Quote:
> Dusk is the best sub 500$ iem ... Period
> Eclipse is the best sub 200$ iem... Period
> CRN is the best sub 50$ iem...
> PERIOD


Nah I still have no regrets about flipping the ZEX Pro


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Tzennn said:


> Is CRN just ZEX pro with crinacle logo on it ?



Correct.


----------



## dimazbaik (Dec 15, 2021)

Now you make me very very sad

With zex pro crn launching, make my newly bought flame as flop🥲🥲

Must wait for few month into a year before i could procured it


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Dec 15, 2021)

Well, hhhrmmphhh!   Are ZEX Pro good? Yes. Unfortunately after a few more days here I'm not getting along with the stock tuning _at all. _I need close to 30 dB of total gain in bass boost, starting at 20 Hz and diminishing in boost up to to 90 Hz, to make these enjoyable for rock and pop. Maybe more like 10-15 dB total bass gain for bottom-heavy electronica.

I had a similar experience with the Geek Wold GK10, which had double the volume of muddy, gooey bass than I thought they should have.  It took a long time to break those in and experiment to find the right setup to make them enjoyable, and I'm glad I put in the effort as they are now among my favorite pairs to listen to. I think the ZEX Pro is similar: it's not for everyone, and I already see a few people bailing because of the polarizing bass.

I do hear a lot of potential in the drivers themselves but the stock tuning leaves me cold. SPOILER ALERT: almost all sets leave me cold. There's a butt for every seat, and not all seats are comfortable to all butts. That's life, folks. The sets I EQ the least are NRA, Heart Mirror, and BA10. In fact I don't mind not adjusting EQ on NRA's bass at all, which seems to indicate that I need just a bit more warmth out of the midbass region to clean up the ZEX Pro. The problem is that the XUN driver in there doesn't seem to want to cooperate.

To my ears the ZEX Pro's bass presentation is weaker than the NRA and it has less bass resolution. The XUN driver seems to trade instrument separation for a percussive edge that generates perceptible pressure spikes on my ear drum. It's fun for about 2 minutes until I back the EQ off, but then all the instruments disappear again. *shrug* mystery. If you're listening to rock or metal, this is pretty close to mosh pit acoustics at a live venue when listening under heavy EQ. But I'm too old for that, having accepted my place now as a casual craft beer drinker sitting up in the balcony and wondering when my wife is going to protest so we can retreat back home in the mutual comfort of heavy petting to Joy Division on the couch where we belong.

For the mids and treble it's an opposite story relative to NRA: there's definitely more detail and better resolution in the mids, but maybe a bit less clarity due to this monster 10kHz trough. Timbre on acoustic instruments suffers from being the best it could be since harmonics are whacked at the knees. Soundstage is better over NRA based on the limited listening time I've been able to set aside. Unfortunately I don't have time to do a proper review so I'm going to shelve these for a few weeks until after the holidays and I have more time to experiment on rainy days, which are now in abundance in my part of the world.


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 15, 2021)

In my case, it’s more of “wake me up when they are able to get the magnetostat to stop hissing”. In my experience, it was just really jarring and hard to ignore.

The hissing cymbals are also there on the standard ZEX, but they don’t draw as much attention because there are more prominent issues (the boxy midbass and lean mids).


----------



## lushmelody (Dec 15, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Well, hhhrmmphhh!   Are ZEX Pro are good? Yes. Unfortunately after a few more days here I'm not getting along with the stock tuning _at all. _I need close to 30 dB of total gain in bass boost, starting at 20 Hz and diminishing in boost up to to 90 Hz, to make these enjoyable for rock and pop. Maybe more like 10-15 dB total bass gain for bottom-heavy electronica.
> 
> I had a similar experience with the Geek Wold GK10, which had double the volume of muddy, gooey bass than I thought they should have.  It took a long time to break those in and experiment to find the right setup to make them enjoyable, and I'm glad I put in the effort as they are now among my favorite pairs to listen to. I think the ZEX Pro is similar: it's not for everyone, and I already see a few people bailing because of the polarizing bass.
> 
> ...


Idk why they chose the updated XUN instead of those new triple magnets for the KZ electret IEMs

NF Audio DD is a double cavity and it does pretty good bass, I thought a triple one could do even more texture


----------



## r31ya (Dec 15, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> In my case, it’s more of “wake me up when they are able to get the magnetostat to stop hissing”. In my experience, it was just really jarring and hard to ignore.
> 
> The hissing cymbals are also there on the standard ZEX, but they don’t draw as much attention because there are more prominent issues (the boxy midbass and lean mids).


Hissing? 
Local store give warning that the magnetostat (well the iem, nra/zex) could electrocute you if you connect it to improperly grounded pc/laptop. 
Well hissing is one of the lesser problem with this driver.


----------



## Nimweth

Tzennn said:


> Ok now i regret buying heart mirror. Help


 You could try the following:
1. Use an amplifier. The Heart Mirror is power hungry and sounds meh on low powered sources. 
2. If you find the sound too bright, try a copper cable. I am using a Faaeal Hibiscus copper cable with excellent results. 
3. Tip roll. I had excellent results with KZ Starlines. 
4.Try a warmer source. 
I hope this helps. The Heart Mirror is an exceptional IEM especially for the price.


----------



## unifutomaki

Ordered the CCA CRA, let’s see if they’ll be worth keeping


----------



## AmericanSpirit

I was off from this hobby due to work-life balance, blind ordered some IEMs/Cans like KZ ZEX Pro, SK10, KT10, 7Hz timeless, Moondrop Nekocafe, senn 450BT, and wow is that ZEX Pro(by Crinacle) is an April’s fool and photoshoped joke?  I thought he was treating KZ as one of the trash brands😂


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 15, 2021)

Tzennn said:


> Is CRN just ZEX pro with crinacle logo on it ?


Crinicle tuned the KZ Zex Pro. I also hear he probably tuned the Zex. #rumor

Rumor: Someone posted on Youtube that Crinicle himself said on KZ's discord that he tuned the KZ Zex Pro.


----------



## G777

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Crinicle tuned the KZ Zex Pro. I also hear he probably tuned the Zex.


Not the ZEX, maybe the CCA CRA?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Crinicle tuned the KZ Zex Pro. I also hear he probably tuned the Zex.


And that's the reason why its that good. My question is, from the photo posted above with the one marked crinicle, is it the same iem or different?

Did he just add his brand to it afterwards?


----------



## lushmelody

Capo Dei Capi said:


> And that's the reason why its that good. My question is, from the photo posted above with the one marked crinicle, is it the same iem or different?
> 
> Did he just add his brand to it afterwards?


Actually I see a lot of mixed reactions....


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

lushmelody said:


> Actually I see a lot of mixed reactions....


Comparing it the DQ6, from my ears the Zex Pro is better. On mid-bass driven tracks the DQ6 is very close, but from my opinion the Zex Pro is better in the mids and treble.

After listening for an hour last night, comparing dozens of tracks, same tips, same source, same volume, the Zex Pro edges it out.

It could be the nozzle but i think its the DD which is just better than the DQ6's. Comfort wise on my ears, the Zex Pro is just perfect. 

Its also worth noting that people have said the two smaller DD on the DQ6 make no different at all.

I can only speak for what i can hear.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Dec 15, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> Actually I see a lot of mixed reactions....


Yeah, Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews says KZ needs to make the internals of their iems more high quality.

You can have the best tuning in the world but if the components used during manufacturing aren't good enough, you can't compete and other brands will be more popular.

With that said, KZ is moving up... they just released two new amazing "looking" cables on Aliexpress.


----------



## independent

MacAttack7 said:


> I had that bad QC wobbly connector problem with my ASF. Must be the same issue.
> I don't think it has affected anything other than annoying my brain worrying about it.
> Has it affected your ASX?


When you open them up you can see one of the two torx screws has stripped the hole and thats why mine was loose. This must of happened at manufacture. Not good at al. The mechanical fit on the metal shells is much nicer and secure.


----------



## myromeo

Opinion please, would the new ZEX Pro be a worthy upgrade from ZS10 Pro? I use my ZS10 Pro with crinacle’s suggested EQ adjustments so know I like his signature…


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Yeah, Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews says KZ needs to make the internals of their iems more high quality.
> 
> You can have the best tuning in the world but if the components used during manufacturing aren't good enough, you can't compete and other brands will be more popular.
> 
> With that said, KZ is moving up... they just released two new amazing "looking" cables on Aliexpress.


Can you post a link for the cables.


----------



## idunnowhyimhere

i just got my KZ T10 in the mail today and my initial impression is...terrible lol. i'm gonna give them a few days
but really even noise cancelling and transparency mode are not good


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Quick update:  ok so forget (some of) what I wrote earlier! Unhappy that these ZEX Pro sounded so off the mark , I swapped to an old KZ brown copper cable and changed source to btr3k. Lo and behold, the real ZEX Pro just showed up! Ahhh so that's where you've been hiding! 

Turns out that a "no processing" setting on my E1DA PowerDAC affects the ZEX Pro more than my other IEM or headphones. I have a weird impedance mismatch there, potentially a defective cable, or both. 

Bass is filled in now and the overall tuning is ballpark good sans EQ of any kind. This isn't the same IEM I wrote about earlier, but is sounding closer to the high expectations that have been building up around it. 

Treble is a bit spicy with certain vocals, edging on being sibilant for known ear splitters. Upper harmonics are still capped in the knees but it isn't such a big issue for rock. 

Really underscores my earlier point that if you've had a bad first impression with a new pair to be patient and experiment a bit.  I can start giving these some proper ear time now across genres. Bass still lighter than NRA by a smidge during A/B testing with a splitter cable, and the ZXP are for sure harder to drive than those.  But! texture and resolution is proper levels of good from the bass now. Foot firmly in mouth about this XUN driver. 

I've been working 12 hr days so hobby time is scarce! Cheers,  I'm out.


----------



## G777

FYI, if you tape the vent at the bottom of the CCA NRA/KZ ZEX, you can reduce the bass to almost neutral levels:




Also, I finally got myself a coupler


----------



## Tzennn

G777 said:


> FYI, if you tape the vent at the bottom of the CCA NRA/KZ ZEX, you can reduce the bass to almost neutral levels:
> 
> Also, I finally got myself a coupler


How did you do that ? Is it not bloated anymore ?


----------



## G777

Tzennn said:


> How did you do that ? Is it not bloated anymore ?


Yeah, it's not bloated anymore.

You just have to tape or block the little opening at the bottom of the IEM (the pointy end).


----------



## Tzennn

AmericanSpirit said:


> I was off from this hobby due to work-life balance, blind ordered some IEMs/Cans like KZ ZEX Pro, SK10, KT10, 7Hz timeless, Moondrop Nekocafe, senn 450BT, and wow is that ZEX Pro(by Crinacle) is an April’s fool and photoshoped joke?  I thought he was treating KZ as one of the trash brands😂


Try CCA CRA aswell... Also the Heart Mirror


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Tzennn said:


> Try CCA CRA aswell... Also the Heart Mirror


Do you mean NRA? Well I have both NRA/ZEX on my hand, and not sure if ZEX pro is a crinacle edit model, I just saw it on KZ Official Store really claiming ZEX pro x Crinacle, so I pretty much might have missed and ordered old Zex Pro😫

Thanks though👍 I have heartmirror, but it’s shelved due to overlapping single CNT DD IEMs, HeartMirror is very good value single DD CNT based one, a bit too bright for some treble sensitive group


----------



## G777 (Dec 16, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Do you mean NRA? Well I have both NRA/ZEX on my hand, and not sure if ZEX pro is a crinacle edit model, I just saw it on KZ Official Store really claiming ZEX pro x Crinacle, so I pretty much might have missed and ordered old Zex Pro😫
> 
> Thanks though👍 I have heartmirror, but it’s shelved due to overlapping single CNT DD IEMs, HeartMirror is very good value single DD CNT based one, a bit too bright for some treble sensitive group


The CRA is a new single DD.



Tuning looks promising 

Also the CRN and ZEX Pro are identical, save for the crinacle logo.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

G777 said:


> The CRA is a new single DD.
> 
> Tuning looks promising


Wow! Didn’t see CCA to come with such a nice curve! Yea I may try that if ZEX pro I ordered was an old version, and I’m pretty sure I will order the crin curve ZEX pro from KZ official anytime soon.


----------



## ChristianM

KZ might be releasing a new IEM.......
https://www.facebook.com/groups/233356113820660/permalink/1216932832129645/
but it's facebook, might be fake,
but if it's true then I hope this new IEM have an LCP driver.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Sad😩

I double checked my ZEX pro order, it definitely looks like old version..





The Crin curve one clearly changes name from the product description, which I don’t recall seeing that when ordered earlier this week.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

ChristianM said:


> KZ might be releasing a new IEM.......
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/233356113820660/permalink/1216932832129645/
> but it's facebook, might be fake,
> but if it's true then I hope this new IEM have an LCP driver.


That’s very interesting… LCP definitely handles sub-bass very well, better than CNT or even newest generation of DLC which used in Moondrop Kato. If KZ could host nice tuning like Crin did to ZEX Pro With LCP backing up the bass, it will be pretty spectacular


----------



## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Wow! Didn’t see CCA to come with such a nice curve! Yea I may try that if ZEX pro I ordered was an old version, and I’m pretty sure I will order the crin curve ZEX pro from KZ official anytime soon.


The CRA is good and bang for the buck I have listened to it for two days and it performs quite well but not a $1000 sound. IMO the real bargain is the BQEYZ Autumn. It is a single DD to beat something like the Variations.


----------



## SartWaiting

ChristianM said:


> KZ might be releasing a new IEM.......
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/233356113820660/permalink/1216932832129645/
> but it's facebook, might be fake,
> but if it's true then I hope this new IEM have an LCP driver.


I think it will be analog CCA CRA. Like CCA NRA = KZ ZEX and other pairs. 
I don't think it will be LCD. It was just speculation in the comments.


----------



## Sebulr

G777 said:


> Yeah, it's not bloated anymore.
> 
> You just have to tape or block the little opening at the bottom of the IEM (the pointy end).


I haven't got this iem. And I wouldn't want this tuning as I prefer a decent amount  of bass. But that's very imformative, for people who go for that. I'll stick with my ba10.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Can you post a link for the cables.


Why? They are on KZ's Aliexpress store.


----------



## seanwee

AmericanSpirit said:


> Sad😩
> 
> I double checked my ZEX pro order, it definitely looks like old version..
> 
> ...


I dont think there is a "new" or "old" ZEX Pro, Crin made it seem like it was just a delayed announcement.


----------



## Insider K (Dec 16, 2021)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Wow! Didn’t see CCA to come with such a nice curve! Yea I may try that if ZEX pro I ordered was an old version, and I’m pretty sure I will order the crin curve ZEX pro from KZ official anytime soon.


ZEX Pro and ZEX Pro X CRN is the same thing/tune just with Crinacle logo.


----------



## myromeo

I hope this is ok to share. Comparing the ZEX Pro and moondrop blessing 2 dusk, I can’t wait to hear these!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Insider K said:


> ZEX Pro and ZEX Pro X CRN is the same thing/tune just with Crinacle logo.


Thats good to know! Wow, I was about to order another one, great!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

myromeo said:


> I hope this is ok to share. Comparing the ZEX Pro and moondrop blessing 2 dusk, I can’t wait to hear these!


Interesting, it tells KZ actually IS capable of tuning IEMs if they can hit IEF fav curve pretty close (except 3khz pinna gain peak, which is actually a crucial spot though). The bass slope is very nice. If they can use LCP for bass driver with a tad more sub-bass focus with few decibels of emphasis on 3khz, it will be a cheaper Moondrop Variations👍


----------



## Nimweth

Insider K said:


> ZEX Pro and ZEX Pro X CRN is the same thing/tune just with Crinacle logo.


I just saw on Ali Express the CRN at $32 and the ZEX Pro at $18. Are they really the same thing?


----------



## Tzennn

new cable from kz... Look fancy tho


----------



## myromeo

AmericanSpirit said:


> Interesting, it tells KZ actually IS capable of tuning IEMs if they can hit IEF fav curve pretty close (except 3khz pinna gain peak, which is actually a crucial spot though). The bass slope is very nice. If they can use LCP for bass driver with a tad more sub-bass focus with few decibels of emphasis on 3khz, it will be a cheaper Moondrop Variations👍


A couple of db at 3khz should be easy to EQ out tho, if desired… 

I just ordered my ZEX PRO and can’t wait to listen to them, I EQ my ZS10 Pro using crinacles 10 band fixed EQ settings so these should be perfect for me.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Nimweth said:


> I just saw on Ali Express the CRN at $32 and the ZEX Pro at $18. Are they really the same thing?



I checked KZ's AliExpress store earlier.  35 euro for crins version and 36 for zex  pro. I paid 26 euro a few weeks ago.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I checked KZ's AliExpress store earlier.  35 euro for crins version and 36 for zex  pro. I paid 26 euro a few weeks ago.


Yes, it does seem like the price went up a bit.


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I checked KZ's AliExpress store earlier.  35 euro for crins version and 36 for zex  pro. I paid 26 euro a few weeks ago.


I have the ZEX Pro in my cart for $22 = £16.83.


----------



## ttorbic

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZEX Pro in my cart for $22 = £16.83.


Which store? If you're shipping to the UK you need to add VAT to that, right? But 22 USD is very cheap - I don't think I've seen it go that low...


----------



## RikudouGoku

ttorbic said:


> Which store? If you're shipping to the UK you need to add VAT to that, right? But 22 USD is very cheap - I don't think I've seen it go that low...


It was at 22-23 usd during the first few days (early bird deal).


----------



## Nimweth

ttorbic said:


> Which store? If you're shipping to the UK you need to add VAT to that, right? But 22 USD is very cheap - I don't think I've seen it go that low...


TOP TECH STORE.


----------



## Nimweth

RikudouGoku said:


> It was at 22-23 usd during the first few days (early bird deal).


Yes, the price including VAT will be close to £20.


----------



## ttorbic

RikudouGoku said:


> It was at 22-23 usd during the first few days (early bird deal).


Womp I definitely missed that lol. Just checked AliX for ZEX Pro prices - prices range from as low as £14 to £26 for the OG ZEX Pro. Weird...


----------



## lushmelody

Tzennn said:


> new cable from kz... Look fancy tho


Identical to JCally JC20 (sadly 3.5 SE only)... Is the price similar too? They are beautiful but TRN has modular cables for similar price rn


----------



## lushmelody (Dec 16, 2021)

ChristianM said:


> KZ might be releasing a new IEM.......
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/233356113820660/permalink/1216932832129645/
> but it's facebook, might be fake,
> but if it's true then I hope this new IEM have an LCP driver.


Hope is a DD line (KZs CRA revision or updated DQ6)


----------



## MacAttack7

People still seem to think ZEX Pro is different from CRN, but they are the same except for the logo, so buy the cheapest one unless you really like the logo. 

*From Crinacle:*
"CRN is ZEX Pro"
"More accurately, ZEX Pro was tuned by me"
"CRN rebrand just making it official"


----------



## Viber

Oh my...


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Nimweth said:


> I have the ZEX Pro in my cart for $22 = £16.83.



ah yes, the olden call of the KZ Pokemon!   ** burning curiosity **  whooshing backgrounds ** greener grass ** anime noises **


----------



## RikudouGoku

lushmelody said:


> KZs CRA revision or updated DQ6


None of those.


----------



## nihil23

RikudouGoku said:


> None of those.


Oh, you already know what it is, but is it still under the NDA? Is it worth the wait?


----------



## RikudouGoku

nihil23 said:


> Oh, you already know what it is, but is it still under the NDA? Is it worth the wait?


I am not sure, will ask if I can disclose it.


----------



## Viber

RikudouGoku said:


> I am not sure, will ask if I can disclose it.



Yes, do tell what result came up in: KZ_IEM_Generator.exe


----------



## lushmelody (Dec 16, 2021)

Viber said:


> Oh my...


He says the 5k peak actually is well done, good energy etc. If it cymbals are better than the compressed ZEX Pro ones is already a win (for me).

Now from that video:


----------



## Viber

lushmelody said:


> He says the 5k peak actually is well done, good energy etc. If it cymbals are better than the compressed ZEX Pro ones is already a win (for me).
> 
> Now from that video:


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ah yes, the olden call of the KZ Pokemon!   ** burning curiosity **  whooshing backgrounds ** greener grass ** anime noises **


Gotta catch 'em all!


----------



## Unolord

After sitting under a pile of newspapers at my local Canada Post sorting depot for 7 days, my Zex Pro finally showed up.

The CRA's should arrive by Tuesday if they don't end up under that same pile...


----------



## Nimweth

ZEX Pro ordered. There must have been some kind of hidden discount as I only paid 15.64 GBP.


----------



## MacAttack7

Nimweth said:


> ZEX Pro ordered. There must have been some kind of hidden discount as I only paid 15.64 GBP.


Yeah it's strange that some items have a hidden discount, but you don't see it unless you use the app on your phone, and go thru the process as if you're going to buy it. Ordered an AST the other day that was $85.72, but it was way more looking at the product page.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 16, 2021)

Two months ago i bought secondhand Moondrop Aria,
I was like, _"ok, i will be fine. just bought one of the best sub $100 iem, i should satisfied my thirst for iems for a year or so. Kz seems still  stuck trying out $60+ iem that doesn't interest me, it should be fine"_

But how, now we have affordable tribid tuned by Crinacle (which i import at launch, usually i waited till its available locally which then have more review/infomation)
CCA with new Driver that is seems interestingly tuned. (currently sitting on my cart)
And apparently upcoming BGGAR's KZs
And somehow upcoming Riku's KZs

What the hell happened?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 16, 2021)

Sebulr said:


> I haven't got this iem. And I wouldn't want this tuning as I prefer a decent amount  of bass. But that's very imformative, for people who go for that. I'll stick with my ba10.


Could not agree more!

Good old KZ.

The new era now...

One may feel some irony - that "vibrating dime" - the magnetic circle vibrating in between two coils - aka KZ "electrostat" would be about the least refined driver out there.

Then we have a person, who was very critical about KZ, now bravely agreeing on the mission of tuning two harshest drivers out there - 30095 and that "EST"... Just a DD save to fit "the curve", à la CCZ Emerald (?)

So I will have an un-opened package of ZEX pro, that should arrive in few days, for sale in Southern Ontario  


r31ya said:


> Two months ago i bought secondhand Moondrop Aria,
> I was like, _"ok, i will be fine. just bought one of the best sub $100 iem, i should satisfied my thirst for iems for a year or so. its kz seems they are stuck trying out $60+ iem that doesn't interest me, it should be fine"_
> 
> But how, now we have affordable tribid tuned by Crinacle (which i import at launch, usually i waited till its available locally which then have more review/infomation)
> ...


Consumerism


----------



## dimazbaik

_ok now i am remember why i stay away from y' all more i read more i wanna buy.. 

dq6
zex pro crn

Now cca cra.. 🤣🤣🤣_


----------



## dimazbaik

______


----------



## zenki

Just got zex pro and it's pretty good for budget iem.
Bass + mids are good. Treble kinda lacklustre.


----------



## seanwee

zenki said:


> Just got zex pro and it's pretty good for budget iem.
> Bass + mids are good. Treble kinda lacklustre.


Thats what i expected looking at the graph. The upper treble craters HARD


----------



## evasb (Dec 17, 2021)

I'm pretty hopeful for HBB's DQ6 retune. Hope lil DQ6 get the FR it deserves.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 16, 2021)

seanwee said:


> Thats what i expected looking at the graph. The upper treble craters HARD


Yeah, i think CRA new DD (extended treble focused dd) is used to deal with that issues.

In Comparison,


----------



## seanwee (Dec 16, 2021)

r31ya said:


> Yeah, i think CRA new DD (extended treble focused dd) is used to deal with that issues.
> 
> In Comparison,


I just picked one up over the ZEX PRO. It may very well be the best tuned iem for the price ever

We shall see how it compares with the Legendary $5 MH755 though


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> Two months ago i bought secondhand Moondrop Aria,
> I was like, _"ok, i will be fine. just bought one of the best sub $100 iem, i should satisfied my thirst for iems for a year or so. Kz seems still  stuck trying out $60+ iem that doesn't interest me, it should be fine"_
> 
> But how, now we have affordable tribid tuned by Crinacle (which i import at launch, usually i waited till its available locally which then have more review/infomation)
> ...



In terms of Pokemon talk (like how we describe the weekly KZ spam releases), KZ has evolved from a low level magicarp to a big gyrados dragon by engaging all the big-time tuners to help them (no pun intended with Dragonball @RikudouGoku  haha).






It's good to see that KZ is really evolving in their tuning, away from the usual old school shouty V shaped stuff! Stagnating and churning out weekly sidegrades that give no value add is not gonna help any company rise up from the ultra tough budget CHIFI segment.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> Yes, do tell what result came up in: KZ_IEM_Generator.exe


Here you go: 
https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-az10


----------



## r31ya (Dec 17, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Here you go:
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-az10


Looks great, the green color looks really nice.

If you can tell, is this using Qualcomm or Realtek Bluetooth chip?
Kinda curious on audio quality difference, especially with such high profile "ATPX" thingy.

and "_Lossless Hi-Def Bluetooth_", is it LDAC capable?


----------



## RikudouGoku

r31ya said:


> Looks great, the green color looks really nice.
> 
> If you can tell, is this using Qualcomm or Realtek Bluetooth chip?
> Kinda curious on audio quality difference, especially with such high profile "ATPX" thingy.
> ...


Sorry, I have no more info. Not interested in tws adapters tbh.


----------



## r31ya

RikudouGoku said:


> Sorry, I have no more info. Not interested in tws adapters tbh.


Ah, i was like, 
_"is this KZxRiku collabs?"
"Off field, but interesting. What did Riku do this TWS to make it special?"_


----------



## RikudouGoku

r31ya said:


> Ah, i was like,
> _"is this KZxRiku collabs?"
> "Off field, but interesting. What did Riku do this TWS to make it special?"_


Went and asked. It only has SBC/AAC.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 17, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> In terms of Pokemon talk (like how we describe the weekly KZ spam releases), KZ has evolved from a low level magicarp to a big gyrados dragon by engaging all the big-time tuners to help them (no pun intended with Dragonball @RikudouGoku  haha).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice analogy!

I definitely prefer the fishes - much safer animals 

To me, a rough good old KZ, with their wild signatures, where some adaptation required, was/is the most fun of the hobby.

Tuning applied to IEM means someone used cuts/filtering to their taste; I prefer to do it myself to my limited tastes 

I finally got my Holiday package (thought it could be lost...took more than a month) of 54 BAs in 4 black boxes, though next months will be very busy for me, so I will now bid my farewell here.

Have a safe and joyful holiday season/break everyone!


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

RikudouGoku said:


> Went and asked. It only has SBC/AAC.


 
Bummer.  It's not optimal, but I have to admit that I can only use SBC on my older android phone and it's really not that noticeable for rock, acid jazz, and electropop, synthwave etc. 

If you're on the move or working I think SBC is perfectly adequate.  I can tether to BTR3k for LDAC without any trouble while stationary.  As others have mentioned, they appreciate being fully wireless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Viber

RikudouGoku said:


> Here you go:
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-az10



So this is the only new product? no new IEM announced next week? (kz CRA remix?)


----------



## RikudouGoku

Viber said:


> So this is the only new product? no new IEM announced next week? (kz CRA remix?)


I sent them this post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/233356113820660/permalink/1216932832129645/

And they told me it was the AZ10.


----------



## ChristianM

I believe it's gonna be an IEM with an LCP driver or driver like in CRA, but there's a new KZ IEM coming next week for sure.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ EDX Pro review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-edx-pro.25613/reviews#review-27518

Rank: B

If you want a lot of bass for a beater set, this is pretty good.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

ChristianM said:


> I believe it's gonna be an IEM with an LCP driver or driver like in CRA, but there's a new KZ IEM coming next week for sure.


Its gonna have to be good to beat the ZEX Pro.


----------



## Tzennn

Well if CRN is just ZEX pro with crinacle logo then maybe i should buy CCA CRA instead...


----------



## r31ya (Dec 18, 2021)

My KZ ZEX Pro finally arrive~! Got bonus case and eartips.

Still feeling it out. Shell is compact but thicc.
Fit is snug, no problem. but due to its being thicc, sleeping with this might pose a problem.

Main thing on early impression is vocal is unlike most KZ i've tried.
Still getting used to the staging, but yeah that center vocals...
Need just a touch more mid bass.

Three driver feels mesh a bit better than DQ6 which backthen give a bit jarring... how do you called it, a bit "noisy" or not singing in harmony when i move from from Single dd (aria/tanya) to multi (dq6). Usually my ear get used to it after few songs in, but i don't have that problem with ZEX Pro.

Only few songs in, for $22? hell yeah.
---
Kinda regretted not order CCA CRA so i can compare with this.


----------



## 1clearhead

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Its gonna have to be good to beat the ZEX Pro.


I have them both the ZEX PRO and the CCA CRA, since I work and live in China. And though the ZEX PRO are okay and sounds more balanced than the ZEX and NRA (which I also own), there is no way I can never comprehend how the CRA are priced at such a cheap price versus performance! They are practically a steal for the price and can easily match any natural sounding top IEM's I own! Now my top natural sounding IEM's are the CCA CRA's followed extremely closely by the BFB LARK which has no such 4.5/5 peaks. So, if anybody is asking about that 4.5 or 5 peak on the CRA's? No worries!

...I will send PIC's later tonight, China time.

-Clear


----------



## seanwee

1clearhead said:


> I have them both the ZEX PRO and the CCA CRA, since I work and live in China. And though the ZEX PRO are okay and sounds more balanced than the ZEX and NRA (which I also own), there is no way I can never comprehend how the CRA are priced at such a cheap price versus performance! They are practically a steal for the price and can easily match any natural sounding top IEM's I own! Now my top natural sounding IEM's are the CCA CRA's followed extremely closely by the BFB LARK which has no such 4.5/5 peaks. So, if anybody is asking about that 4.5 or 5 peak on the CRA's? No worries!
> 
> ...I will send PIC's later tonight, China time.
> 
> -Clear


How do the ZEX PRO and CRA compare head to head?


----------



## Tzennn

And how about kz ZAX/CCA CA16 ? Is it still good?


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Tzennn said:


> And how about kz ZAX/CCA CA16 ? Is it still good?


ZAX remains one of my favorite IEMs.


----------



## unifutomaki

Tzennn said:


> And how about kz ZAX/CCA CA16 ? Is it still good?


I still like my ZAX and bring it out from time to time.


----------



## countryboyhk (Dec 18, 2021)

Tzennn said:


> And how about kz ZAX/CCA CA16 ? Is it still good?


CA16's retro sounds tuning was quite a hit by the time it launched. For now, I would rather save the money for some new single dd like EDX Pro, which is cheap, fun with incredible sounds. I am waiting for my CCA CRA to arrive too.


----------



## dharmasteve (Dec 18, 2021)

So listening to the KZ ZEX Pro now. Very well tuned. Big female vocals like Summertime from Porgy and Bess, Introduction, sung by Leontyne Price shows how well this ZEX Pro does vocals, same with Christine Perfect, I'd Rather go Blind. Kate Bush, This Woman's Work presents beautifully. Reckoner, Radiohead, good cymbal splashes. Jazz track, Tears Inside, Ornette Coleman, good separation and staging, quite detailed. Eve of Agnes, by XIXA has plenty of heft.  Ambitionz Az A Ridah, 2PAQ, lacks the mid-bass thump, but good sub-bass. Wolf Totem, The Hu shines on the KZ Pro. Hans Zimmer, Why so Serious? 3min20 onwards sub-bass test and sub-bass is very apparent.  Concerto for Violin & Orchestra, Sibelius, Adrian Justus, the right thickness of notes on the violin, staging of the violin positionally very good. Good orchestral separation. This is a very good tuning for a KZ and very listenable. To be picky, I would have liked a little more mid-bass and slightly more extended treble, but in actual listening these are subjectively so well tuned. Very good tonality and timbre, good for a BA. The Electrostat and DD do a good job. Well done KZ for £20.
Substituted a KZ 3.5mm upgrade copper cable and L Spiral Dot tips. Listened on HiBy R5 and Sony Xperia 5ii. The ZEX Pro does need some extra gain/Juice to get the best from them. Now to burn in more.


----------



## Atek2019

does any one experience treble harshness and metallic cymbal crash on ZEX Pro ? or only my set has this problem ?


----------



## dimazbaik (Dec 18, 2021)

Since i am on both single dd and hybrid..

I kinda on alleyways about cra vs zex pro

Thanks for clearing my doubt

Just wait for that delivery for come...

I choose one between two after all


----------



## unifutomaki

Atek2019 said:


> does any one experience treble harshness and metallic cymbal crash on ZEX Pro ? or only my set has this problem ?


that is the reason i flipped it


----------



## RikudouGoku

Atek2019 said:


> does any one experience treble harshness and metallic cymbal crash on ZEX Pro ? or only my set has this problem ?


Yes, the ZEX Pro has a real 8k peak.

Crinacle shared an EQ preset:





And here is mine:




Link to the presets (wavelet) here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nGDUU28HM-A6R364E-kYCY8wnDOHe_nG


----------



## Atek2019

unifutomaki said:


> that is the reason i flipped it


maybe need burn-in


----------



## Viber

RikudouGoku said:


> Yes, the ZEX Pro has a real 8k peak.
> 
> Crinacle shared an EQ preset:
> 
> ...



seems a bit odd to recc an EQ for a set he just tuned.


----------



## Atek2019

i am using spinfit cp100 to add little bit mid bass.
SEX Pro, ups, ZEX Pro definitely need EQ for my taste


----------



## unifutomaki

Atek2019 said:


> maybe need burn-in


my other sets don’t


----------



## lushmelody

CRA seems to be the best deal rn 😝


----------



## unifutomaki

lushmelody said:


> CRA seems to be the best deal rn 😝


looking forward to receiving mine!


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Let's hope all future sets from KZ are tuned well now.


----------



## Nimweth

dharmasteve said:


> So listening to the KZ ZEX Pro now. Very well tuned. Big female vocals like Summertime from Porgy and Bess, Introduction, sung by Leontyne Price shows how well this ZEX Pro does vocals, same with Christine Perfect, I'd Rather go Blind. Kate Bush, This Woman's Work presents beautifully. Reckoner, Radiohead, good cymbal splashes. Jazz track, Tears Inside, Ornette Coleman, good separation and staging, quite detailed. Eve of Agnes, by XIXA has plenty of heft.  Ambitionz Az A Ridah, 2PAQ, lacks the mid-bass thump, but good sub-bass. Wolf Totem, The Hu shines on the KZ Pro. Hans Zimmer, Why so Serious? 3min20 onwards sub-bass test and sub-bass is very apparent.  Concerto for Violin & Orchestra, Sibelius, Adrian Justus, the right thickness of notes on the violin, staging of the violin positionally very good. Good orchestral separation. This is a very good tuning for a KZ and very listenable. To be picky, I would have like a little more mid-bass and slightly more extended treble, but in actual listening these are subjectively so well tuned. Very good tonality and timbre, good for a BA. The Electrostat and DD do a good job. Well done KZ for £20.
> Substituted a KZ 3.5mm upgrade copper cable and L Spiral Dot tips. Listened on HiBy R5 and Sony Xperia 5ii. The ZEX Pro does need some extra gain/Juice to get the best from them. Now to burn in more.


Looking forward to getting mine. It will be January now,  I'm afraid!


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Atek2019 said:


> does any one experience treble harshness and metallic cymbal crash on ZEX Pro ? or only my set has this problem ?


Mine seems pretty good to me, there is no fatiguing on mine.  All I did was change the tips and cable to a 16 core.

Still waiting to see how good they after burn in. You really notice how good the turning is now.


----------



## myromeo

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Mine seems pretty good to me, there is no fatiguing on mine.  All I did was change the tips and cable to a 16 core.
> 
> Still waiting to see how good they after burn in. You really notice how good the turning is now.


What tips did you opt for? I’ve got some CP145’s waiting to go on mine when they eventually arrive. Will be using NiceHCK 16 core SPC cable.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

myromeo said:


> What tips did you opt for? I’ve got some CP145’s waiting to go on mine when they eventually arrive. Will be using NiceHCK 16 core SPC cable.


Got these off amazon. I went for the red tornados. But i think they shipped from Lithuania. They are nice and firm, but soft and the price is good.  

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07F73N8XR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## baskingshark

Viber said:


> seems a bit odd to recc an EQ for a set he just tuned.








I guess even if he tuned the ZEX Pro to graph similarly to the Blessing 2 Dusk, there are limitations with the cheaper drivers used in the ZEX Pro. Probably if he tuned down the 8 kHz region, there will be compromises elsewhere, and can't be expecting perfection and miracles at this pricing, even TOTL sets have weaknesses.


----------



## dimazbaik (Dec 18, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Hi guys, got my CRA and have it measured:
> 
> Updated packaing. Interesting to have a KZ logo on the cable packaging.
> 
> ...


NiceHck crane cable🤣🤣🤣

OP upgrade


----------



## trippleed (Dec 18, 2021)

unifutomaki said:


> that is the reason i flipped it


Same thing goes for me as well. The og. Zex still has better treble extension and timbre. It is also less grainy and harsh on the upper end.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 18, 2021)

Ok,Listening Dir en Grey tracklist while switching ZEX Pro eartips from stock to Spinfit CP100 with Y*nyoo 16 core is a mistake.
The metal percussion sounds way more "crashy"/metalic(?) and the fact that Shinya the drummer love that giant cymbals, It actually overshadow other sounds.
Its bordering unlistenable, their old mastering is not that great to begin with did not help the matter.

It was fine with Vocal ballads and Slipknot last night when everything still with stock equip...
Doing second take with hibiscus copper cable and Final E tips to tame that somewhat odd treble.
And so far its much better.

Its pretty damn good for $20~30 but yeah, its way more sensitive to equipment change than i thought and sensitive in manner of making that treble unlistenable.


----------



## saldsald

dimazbaik said:


> NiceHck crane cable🤣🤣🤣
> 
> OP upgrade


Gotta try with what I have and hear the true potential of it.


----------



## lushmelody

How is the ZEX Pro after EQ?


----------



## trippleed

lushmelody said:


> How is the ZEX Pro after EQ?


For me there is no drastic change upon changing the eq. It's still a bit metallic on its upper treble. The sibilance is still more noticeable though compare with the og. zex which is tamer and safer


----------



## lushmelody (Dec 18, 2021)

trippleed said:


> For me there is no drastic change upon changing the eq. It's still a bit metallic on its upper treble. The sibilance is still more noticeable though compare with the og. zex which is tamer and safer


Sadly its probably a driver issue. The tuning is great, but the new driver tech is still too new and raw. The new thin DD is promising more price-to-perfomance (especially treble and timbre)


----------



## myromeo

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Got these off amazon. I went for the red tornados. But i think they shipped from Lithuania. They are nice and firm, but soft and the price is good.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07F73N8XR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


Thanks. They look a lot like the spinfit so I’ll stick with what I have


----------



## dharmasteve

I am really respecting the tuning of the KZ ZEX Pro. I like the KZ ZEX, albeit they are little safe. I like the little 'edge' of the ZEX Pro. Like the ZEX the Pro needs a better cable and in particular tip rolling, and enough power to drive them well. For 20 quid they are incredible value. It seems KZ have got the message and are moving away from their V shaped typical tunings.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 19, 2021)

After one day with ZEX Pro and coming from Moondrop Aria as daily driver.

ZEX Pro is weirdly intriguing.

Bass quality is still behind Aria clean bass, yet it mid bass is there when needed with decent subbass and mild rumble. Speed is decent. Its the most chameleon bass in kz so far can be subbassy or just the midbass as the song needed. its way better than old KZ bass, it to need be a touch bit cleaner or mesh a bit better to be great.
Treble is a bit metallic/crashy, nowhere as smooth as Aria does, but with proper cable and tips (which right now i'm back to default) its pretty still detailed and shimmer at times. its a wierd thing as treble can goes between abit distant to obnoxious as the song change (or as you change cable and eartips).
Mids is the damn star here. While most KZ i tried is the sub $60 one, its a bit hard to remember one with mids this good. guitars is nice to hear, bass guitar have good seperation, vocals most importantly right front and center with good quality not recessed or playing second fiddle to other instrument. while not as holographic as Aria its one place that i don't feel lacking much compared to aria.
Soundstage while not big its pretty 3D with good layering and separation, i can easily place instrument in a song. blissful multi driver that mesh pretty well.
The overall sound quality seems fluctuating heavily depend on the recording, its seems its not that forgiving for bad recording.
Everything seems to be placed right but Its a weird thing, everything seems right but its not "there" yet.

well, remembering BGGAR comment. KZ need better driver. Its the quality of bass and especially treble is that is lacking and most possibly the Xun driver and Bellsing 30095 is incapable or hard to be tuned to reach LCP sound quality or its peers.

But then i remember buying this for $22, thats like a third of Aria price and in that price its definitely a great value. Driver capability aside, its a IEM that is tuned right.
and it would be easy recommend for the price point, if not for the incoming younger cousin, the $15 CCA CRA.
Haven't tried that one, but i'm hearing good thing so far.
---






these are pretty pleasant to hear with ZEX


----------



## Hien80

Zex pro + Spinfit + Tacable 😋


----------



## RikudouGoku (Dec 19, 2021)

KZ ZEX Pro/KZ x Crinacle CRN: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zex-pro-kz-x-crinacle-crn.25618/reviews#review-27528

Stock rank: D+
PEQ rank: A-


Unusual tuning for KZ, but the 8k peak is a big bottleneck. It is kind of of a "default win" for them though, since there is nothing else like this in this price range. (And PEQ fixes most of the issues I have with it.)

Here is the preset:
Peak: 4200hz, Q: 2, gain: -3db
Peak: 7000hz, Q: 5, gain: -3db
Peak: 8000hz, Q: 3, gain: -5db
High-shelf: 11 000hz, Q: 0.7, gain: 3db


----------



## IEMbiker

Enjoying this fantastic performance with ZEX Pro....drum is so good.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 19, 2021)

Hien80 said:


> Zex pro + Spinfit + Tacable 😋


Which Spinfit did you use?
I combine old CP100 with Y*nyoo 16 core, it causes the cymbals to be borderline unlistenable.


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> Which Spinfit did you use?
> I combine old CP100 with Y*nyoo 16 core, it causes the cymbals to be borderline unlistenable.



Spinfit CP100 is a bit V shape for me, it boosts treble and bass more than the mids, so maybe the 8 kHz gets boosted with it on (YMMV as we have different ear anatomies).

If you wanna tame the 8 kHz with tips, maybe you can consider Final E black tips, or foam tips.


----------



## Hien80

r31ya said:


> Bạn đã sử dụng Spinfit nào?
> Tôi kết hợp CP100 cũ với lõi Y * nyoo 16, nó làm cho chũm chọe không thể mở được.


Cp 100 plus bro.


----------



## 1clearhead (Dec 29, 2021)

Hello fellow head-fier’s... 

Here’s a quick impression of the CCA CRA and KZ ZEX PRO 

 Plus, a quick comparison between CCA CRA vs BFB LARK, CCA CRA vs KZ ZEX PRO, and KZ ZEX PRO vs KZ ZEX vs CCA NRA.

*CCA CRA*
A new born king of dynamic drivers?

At merely around $15 US dollars one may think these new CRA’s are children’s toys during this season of giving, but guess again! They might not have the best make versus hundreds, or even thousands of US dollars. They might not have the best accessories package, or even detachable cables. But, what they do have is excellent performance versus their ridiculous price! They can hang with any dynamic driver IEM’s that I own in practically ranging in the hundreds of dollars! After burning them in for 100 hours, they can play most of my genre with ease. Violins and Cellos are excellent, drums are quick, precise, and so realistic, while vocals are incredibly clear and divine. This is all coming from a new breed of dynamic drivers launched by CCA!
PROS: Everything for the ridiculous price!
CONS: None for the low price!

*KZ ZEX PRO*
A taste of audiophile experience at a budget price?

Also, at around $30 US dollars (or less) you can enjoy the thrill of near audiophile experience of the ZEX PRO for an astonishing budget price. You get a Neutral signature experience with amazing open hi-end details while maintaining the raw energy of three incredibly tuned drivers per side that will bring anyone to the edge of tonality. Finally, after burning them in for 100 hours, they go really well with studio production work where details are needed for mastering or remastering songs of high quality recording. An opportunity of this type of quality of IEM’s are rare to own, especially at their asking price. So, if you’re on a budget? Don’t lose this opportunity of a life time. You won’t regret it!
PROS: A taste of hi-end audio!
CONS: Can be bright or harsh for sensitive listeners.

*CCA CRA* vs *BFB LARK*

What can I say? These sound almost identical in all areas to the BFB LARK, except that the CRA’s sounds a bit clearer in the lower vocals giving a slight edge to female or male vocal tenors. BFB (Bamboo Forest Bird) is a very small company, which started more than several years back selling only several models of in-ear monitors, but the BFB LARK took me by surprise with their 6mm natural sounding micro-dynamic drivers that are very hard to beat versus their price point, and while similar to the CRA in their unique dynamic sound, they can also hang with much higher priced IEM’s. But, the fascinating thing about the CRA’s is that the higher frequency tuning sounds exactly like hearing the micro-drivers coming from the BFB LARK’s. So, cheers to CCA and their new overall drivers and tuning accomplished on the CRA’s!

*CCA CRA* vs *KZ ZEX PRO*
 ***
If you like a slight V/U shape in your tuning, CRA is the right pick for you. But, if you’re looking for a more Neutral sounding signature, then you’ll make an excellent choice by picking the ZEX PRO. The ZEX PRO’s will truly give you a taste of what professional audiophiles look for in open hi-end details for their incredible low price, all while the CRA’s will give you some of the most natural sounding audio signatures at any price. ***Now, the interesting part of the CRA’s is that by changing the copper wire to silver will provide you even more micro-details on top and tighter bass, though the copper wires will give you a sense of a wider soundstage with more natural sub-bass. This makes the CRA’s a hidden beast! So, overall I personally think that these two IEM’s are more of a “must buy” than they are actually competitors. Conclusion, they are both a no brainer!...Just buy them both!

*KZ ZEX PRO* vs *KZ ZEX* vs *CCA NRA*

It’s funny how a brother/sister company would be so intertwined as to compete against each other on who carries the better model according to many KZ or CCA customers. But, while it seemed like there was continually a “tug-of-war” on who carried the better model between KZ ZEX or CCA NRA, these two brother and sister companies were actually preparing to brew for the main event with the ZEX PRO and CCA’s latest CRA. Whether, that was a marketing strategy or not, it was very well planned. So, personally if you still got several dollars left in your pocket, I suggest you get the ZEX PRO and the CRA. They will definitely make up for your loss of getting the ZEX and NRA if you weren’t completely satisfied with their tuning, IMHO.


Hope this gives a better idea and perspective on KZ and CCA’s latest models…

Cheers! 

 -Clear


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

The ZEX Pro is now the best IEM i have owned.  Can't stop listening to it.


----------



## Musicoflife

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ ZEX Pro/KZ x Crinacle CRN: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zex-pro-kz-x-crinacle-crn.25618/reviews#review-27528
> 
> Stock rank: D+
> PEQ rank: A-
> ...


I commend your reviews which covers how the product sounds both in stock form as well as after PEQ. I consider EQ to be the final tuning we users can and should do, together with tip rolling.


----------



## myromeo

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ ZEX Pro/KZ x Crinacle CRN: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zex-pro-kz-x-crinacle-crn.25618/reviews#review-27528
> 
> Stock rank: D+
> PEQ rank: A-
> ...


Any suggestions on fixed band EQ? Drop 4K and 8k?


----------



## zenki

So close yet so far away...


----------



## trippleed

lushmelody said:


> Sadly its probably a driver issue. The tuning is great, but the new driver tech is still too new and raw. The new thin DD is promising more price-to-perfomance (especially treble and timbre)


I thought the same thing bro. Probably the driver limitation limits its potential.


----------



## trippleed

1clearhead said:


> Hello fellow head-fier’s...
> 
> Here’s a quick impression of the CCA CRA and KZ ZEX PRO
> 
> ...


Your post make me curious with lark bro. Perhaps, I will try it later. 👍


----------



## riodgarp

r31ya said:


> There a unbox video and it being compared to ZAS which have the new narrow eartip/lip.
> ZEX Pro is noticeably fatter.
> ---
> Zex pro left, ZAS right.
> ...




ah I see the zex  pro looks bigger, what I mean is the lips length


----------



## sfrsfr

1clearhead said:


> Hello fellow head-fier’s...
> 
> Here’s a quick impression of the CCA CRA and KZ ZEX PRO
> 
> ...


How do you find the fit of the shells?


----------



## 1clearhead

sfrsfr said:


> How do you find the fit of the shells?


If you're talking about the KZ ZEX PRO or the CCA CRA, they both fit really well. The ZEX PRO has a nicer fit, while the CRA is lighter in weight. So, it's a WIN, WIN for both.

-Clear


----------



## independent

I like to look at Frequency Response (FR) graphs. For instance I personally don't like the old shrill treble and need my bass.

In fact if anyone (KZ) is listening. The reason I listen to headphones is to hear sub-bass and bass in detail. It is so difficult to get good sound reproduction in the (sub-)bass frequencies with speakers. The best speakers I've ever owned were JBL cinema speakers. Here's the thing, the problem with FR graphs is you might get the frequencies but there is a marked difference to the quality and in the detail of the bass representation.

You can't make detailed bass with a speaker without spending a lot of money. So if you make or listen to bass music you want to hear it in detail. The very best sub bass (*and the rest of the frequencies) I've heard from anything apart from a multi mega dollar concert experience is from my ASX BA headphones. It's the detail/resolution that's amazing. I am convinced there is more to be had from this technology.

I think there is a huge market for super accurate IEMs that have detail and resolution and can span the frequency range in a way that can be said to be accurate. There's probably a market for super accurate detailed IEMS within that range as well, accurate, sub bass hyped, mids hyped, treble hyped. But only if there is super detailed represention. You can't get that information with a FR graph. My not so super educated position is DDs can't do this kind of resolution. From the sound of it planars can but they don't do bass or even sub-bass well.

It will be BA tech that will move this tech forward. Less focus on the amount of drivers in a earpiece and more on FR with quality.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 20, 2021)

KZ ZEX Pro on default equipment, actually have some problem to use on normal use (youtubing, netflixing,...), the "SSS" sibilance... its not piercing but distracting enough.
Its super awesome for small stage live musics thanks to good bass, great mids, soundstage and layering, well as long as you stay away from that treble like cymbals.

Back with smoother Aria, while its still somewhat there, but easier to listen. and yet, i missed ZEX Pro separation, layering and multi driver bliss.
Still thinking twice on whther buying ZEXPro its dedicated equip (cable and eartips) or just go for CCA NRA.
ZEX Pro is pretty damn good, its just that one fr**king flaw so distracting.
_"Goodsong, greatsong, oh dude i need to skip this one"_

I'm not sure is this is just this specific video mixing that causes the sibilance or its just inheret in ZEX Pro.


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 20, 2021)

independent said:


> I like to look at Frequency Response (FR) graphs. For instance I personally don't like the old shrill treble and need my bass.
> 
> In fact if anyone (KZ) is listening. The reason I listen to headphones is to hear sub-bass and bass in detail. It is so difficult to get good sound reproduction in the (sub-)bass frequencies with speakers. The best speakers I've ever owned were JBL cinema speakers. Here's the thing, the problem with FR graphs is you might get the frequencies but there is a marked difference to the quality and in the detail of the bass representation.
> 
> ...



Actually most pure BA IEMs with BA bass drivers sound a bit unnatural in subbass timbre, in terms of lacking decay and movement of air. DD bass sounds more natural due to this movement of air. There are exceptions of course, but the latest trend is for BA bass units to be vented, so as to give this movement of air and decay perception.

Even for 2 IEMs that graph similarly with similar looking quantities of bass on graphs, if one is a BA bass driver unit and another is a DD bass unit, they can sound pretty different on actual listening.

You can try some sets that have DD bass that are known for bigger sub-bass (from cheapest to priciest), like Urbanfun YBF-ISS014, iBasso IT00, TFZ No. 3, Ikko OH10, Mangoes Xenns Up, Sony IER Z1R. Those I find have quite nice subbass.


----------



## seanwee (Dec 20, 2021)

independent said:


> I think there is a huge market for super accurate IEMs that have detail and resolution and can span the frequency range in a way that can be said to be accurate. There's probably a market for super accurate detailed IEMS within that range as well, accurate, sub bass hyped, mids hyped, treble hyped. But only if there is super detailed represention. You can't get that information with a FR graph. My not so super educated position is DDs can't do this kind of resolution. From the sound of it planars can but they don't do bass or even sub-bass well.


Have you tried stuff in the mid-fi ($500) range? There are quite a number of earphones that fit your description in that category nowadays, you don't even have to dip your toes into the high end. 

I reccomend trying tribrids like the Moondrop Variations or Thieaudio Excalibur. They combine the subbass of DDs with the mids of multi-Bas and the highs of electrostatic drivers.



baskingshark said:


> Actually most pure BA IEMs with BA bass drivers sound a bit unnatural in subbass timbre, in terms of lacking decay and movement of air. DD bass sounds more natural due to this movement of air. There are exceptions of course, but the latest trend is for BA bass units to be vented, so as to give this movement of air and decay perception.
> 
> Even for 2 IEMs that graph similarly with similar looking quantities of bass on graphs, if one is a BA bass driver unit and another is a DD bass unit, they can sound pretty different on actual listening.
> 
> You can try some sets that have DD bass that are known for bigger sub-bass (from cheapest to priciest), like Urbanfun YBF-ISS014, iBasso IT00, TFZ No. 3, Ikko OH10, Sony IER Z1R. Those I find have quite nice subbass.


The Moondrop Variations has a crazy subbass hump as well. Its the bassiest "audiophile" iem i've ever heard. It just hits you like a truck.


----------



## idunnowhyimhere

Viber said:


> seems a bit odd to recc an EQ for a set he just tuned.


I was literally saying this on his discord and got banned from posting for a week


----------



## r31ya

idunnowhyimhere said:


> I was literally saying this on his discord and got banned from posting for a week


I don't have much problem with the bass.
Its the treble. He should've known the crashy metalic cymblas sound is so distracting.
while most possibly its driver limitation couldn't replicate Dusk tuning SQ. 
But still, knowing the limitation, he should've promote to alter the driver or try different tuning to avoid that treble.


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 20, 2021)

The cymbal hissing just made it impossible to get into the music with the ZEX Pro, not to mention the stark contrast in positioning between male and female vocals - the former are fairly subdued while the latter just floats above everything else.

And price isn’t really an excuse because similarly priced IEMs don’t necessarily have these problems.

On EQ: my transport of choice (iPhone/built in Music app) doesn’t  allow for custom EQ, and I’m not about to buy a Quedelix for a 30 dollar IEM just so that I can PEQ it


----------



## Viber

idunnowhyimhere said:


> I was literally saying this on his discord and got banned from posting for a week



Haha, the tuning gods frown upon thee.


----------



## idunnowhyimhere

unifutomaki said:


> The cymbal hissing just made it impossible to get into the music with the ZEX Pro, not to mention the stark contrast in positioning between male and female vocals - the former are fairly subdued while the latter just floats above everything else.
> 
> And price isn’t really an excuse because similarly priced IEMs don’t necessarily have these problems.
> 
> On EQ: my transport of choice (iPhone/built in Music app) doesn’t  allow for custom EQ, and I’m not about to buy a Quedelix for a 30 dollar IEM just so that I can PEQ it


The hissing made me put down my NRAs and I'm hesitant to buy the zex pro. I do want to hear his tuning before I jump to the dusk or eclipse. EQ on the lg v60 isn't detailed enough for effective adjustment. I get by using USB audio player occasionally  on Android


----------



## dimazbaik

I really do interested to a zex pro until i know i must have / turn eqp. Have a good source, maybe amps and more... 


Maybe i should hold till i could try test unit. 

The one tempting me was the separation. Because i love details and analytical. 

( maybe next December 😜)


----------



## unifutomaki

dimazbaik said:


> I really do interested to a zex pro until i know i must have / turn eqp. Have a good source, maybe amps and more...
> 
> 
> Maybe i should hold till i could try test unit.
> ...


On technicalities, the ZEX Pro is not that different from other KZs.


----------



## lushmelody

idunnowhyimhere said:


> The hissing made me put down my NRAs and I'm hesitant to buy the zex pro. I do want to hear his tuning before I jump to the dusk or eclipse. EQ on the lg v60 isn't detailed enough for effective adjustment. I get by using USB audio player occasionally  on Android


Try Poweramp Equalizer... it's the best PEQ on android, imo. It needs to do some script writing on PC to allow it work though


----------



## Viber

unifutomaki said:


> On technicalities, the ZEX Pro is not that different from other KZs.



I kinda love how you burst the hype bubble 

I really think KZ made a very big leap from ATR-ZS3-ZSE etc to ZS6-ZSR (with the ZS5 as a weird transition prototype) and had no major upgrades ever since.   Different turnings and sidegrades - Sure, but no real jumps in sound quality.


----------



## dharmasteve (Dec 21, 2021)

The KZ Zex Pro is a major improvement for KZs IEMs. Tuning is great. Perhaps the only major improvement is HBBs issue, to bring in better quality drivers. But we are talking about £20........DD, BA, Electrostat, phenomenal value. For most the tuning is good. If KZ will implement better quality drivers then for a little extra cost we could have a genuine KZ giant killer that will challenge way above it's pay grade. Meanwhile the KZ ZEX Pro is incredible value for 20 quid.


----------



## RikudouGoku

myromeo said:


> Any suggestions on fixed band EQ? Drop 4K and 8k?


8k area is the most important part to drop. So if you dont have access to PEQ, you should look for the area closest to that region to reduce.


----------



## Viber

dharmasteve said:


> The KZ Zex Pro is a major improvement for KZs IEMs. Tuning is great. Perhaps the only major improvement is HBBs issue, to bring in better quality drivers. But we are talking about £20........DD, BA, Electrostat, phenomenal value. For most the tuning is good. If KZ will implement better quality drivers then for a little extra cost we could have a genuine KZ giant killer that will challenge way above it's pay grade. Meanwhile the KZ Pro is incredible value for 20 quid.



Like i said, different tuning sure - but same sound quality\level.
Zex Pro is not praised across the board so far, iv'e seen plenty of lukewarm\3 stars reviews so far.


----------



## dharmasteve

Viber said:


> Like i said, different tuning sure - but same sound quality\level.
> Zex Pro is not praised across the board so far, iv'e seen plenty of lukewarm\3 stars reviews so far.


And plenty of praise


----------



## voicemaster

seanwee said:


> Have you tried stuff in the mid-fi ($500) range? There are quite a number of earphones that fit your description in that category nowadays, you don't even have to dip your toes into the high end.
> 
> I reccomend trying tribrids like the Moondrop Variations or Thieaudio Excalibur. They combine the subbass of DDs with the mids of multi-Bas and the highs of electrostatic drivers.
> 
> The Moondrop Variations has a crazy subbass hump as well. Its the bassiest "audiophile" iem i've ever heard. It just hits you like a truck.


Yeah true the Variations is bassy yet detailed, clear and airy at the same time which is crazy imho.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 20, 2021)

Viber said:


> Like i said, different tuning sure - but same sound quality\level.
> Zex Pro is not praised across the board so far, iv'e seen plenty of lukewarm\3 stars reviews so far.


As someone who currently trying to daily drive it,
KZ ZEX Pro is one of the most annoying KZ i've tried.

With most part song its great for $30. For me nothing feels out of place, Bass is there with some texturing, rumble if needed, mid instruments sounds nice, and vocal that is good, front and center. Also proper center image.
Easily recommended IEMs, until that metalic hissing cymbals crash in... or the singer goes "sss"...
Then you'll remember this one annoying weakness of ZEX Pro.

But yeah, usually at this point due to that annoyance either i gave it away to family or friends or resell it.
Maybe i'll try to eq it. pretty sure BTR5 apps have EQ on it.


----------



## seanwee

voicemaster said:


> Yeah true the Variations is bassy yet detailed, clear and airy at the same time which is crazy imho.


I was almost going to get it but it was too bassy for more instrumental tracks so its not without its drawbacks. 



r31ya said:


> As someone who currently tried to daily drive it,
> KZ ZEX Pro is one of the most annoying KZ i've tried.
> 
> With most part song its great for $30. For me nothing feels out of place and vocal that is good, front and center. Also proper center image.
> ...


Funnily enough for an IEM touted to have a taste of high end tuning it lacks the one thing that separates the midrange from the high end iems : refinement.


----------



## MrBlitzpunk

Tried the Zex Pro, and it took my less than a week to decide to sell it off. the treble, oh god that 8k peak is the most painful thing i've heard, and i don't even consider myself treble sensitive. the lows up to the upper mid, was great, it was perfect for the price. but then cymbals, and S/T sound came up... me, being not a treble sensitive person finally understand what treble sensitive person meant as "ear piercing treble". sometimes i genuinely find myself dreading to hear cymbals and S sound in songs, i was like bracing myself for an impact everytime i was expecting that 8k peak to show up... it's weird, since the rest of the treble were actually pleasant, (albeit still having this weird metallic timbre) it's only that specific region that's so ear piercing. it's almost like that meme where a horse is drawn in 3 parts, the tail end and the front legs were drawn magnificently but then the head was only a doodle.  i legit thought my unit is defective at first, especially when the reviews at the time never mentioned the treble being piercing or even metallic. but then again, both the left and right piece at the same time? aside from reviews, i find it weird that there was mixed perception about the treble, some say it's absolutely fine, and some, like me, hated it. unit variation? different ears hearing frequency differently? i dont know.

tried remedying it with my Comply TX foam tips, which usually works wonder on reducing treble. it did work on reducing that piercing treble for a bit, but it also brought down upper midrange with it, which was a tradeoff im not willing to make. tried EQ-ing it too, it does work well. but i'm not about to use EQ on my phone since i switch between cans regularly. so in the end i decided to just sell it before the hype died down. it's a shame, it's an otherwise perfect IEM for the price, even the fit and seal was really good, but after all it's still not nearly enough to replace my EDC which is the KZ ZS10pro, it certainly had the potential to beat the ZS10pro. but at least with ZS10pro bright treble and shouty upper mids, those can both be fixed by foam tips. all in all, if my Zex Pro wasn't a defective unit, i dont know how crin could've greenlit it


----------



## gourab1995

MrBlitzpunk said:


> Tried the Zex Pro, and it took my less than a week to decide to sell it off. the treble, oh god that 8k peak is the most painful thing i've heard, and i don't even consider myself treble sensitive. the lows up to the upper mid, was great, it was perfect for the price. but then cymbals, and S/T sound came up... me, being not a treble sensitive person finally understand what treble sensitive person meant as "ear piercing treble". sometimes i genuinely find myself dreading to hear cymbals and S sound in songs, i was like bracing myself for an impact everytime i was expecting that 8k peak to show up... it's weird, since the rest of the treble were actually pleasant, (albeit still having this weird metallic timbre) it's only that specific region that's so ear piercing. it's almost like that meme where a horse is drawn in 3 parts, the tail end and the front legs were drawn magnificently but then the head was only a doodle.  i legit thought my unit is defective at first, especially when the reviews at the time never mentioned the treble being piercing or even metallic. but then again, both the left and right piece at the same time? aside from reviews, i find it weird that there was mixed perception about the treble, some say it's absolutely fine, and some, like me, hated it. unit variation? different ears hearing frequency differently? i dont know.
> 
> tried remedying it with my Comply TX foam tips, which usually works wonder on reducing treble. it did work on reducing that piercing treble for a bit, but it also brought down upper midrange with it, which was a tradeoff im not willing to make. tried EQ-ing it too, it does work well. but i'm not about to use EQ on my phone since i switch between cans regularly. so in the end i decided to just sell it before the hype died down. it's a shame, it's an otherwise perfect IEM for the price, even the fit and seal was really good, but after all it's still not nearly enough to replace my EDC which is the KZ ZS10pro, it certainly had the potential to beat the ZS10pro. but at least with ZS10pro bright treble and shouty upper mids, those can both be fixed by foam tips. all in all, if my Zex Pro wasn't a defective unit, i dont know how crin could've greenlit it


For me using spinfit cp145 paired with a decent cable helps. But still overall an absolute annoyance when a treble focused song comes in. Overall a sell for me as well even after the tweaks with tips etc..


----------



## baskingshark (Dec 21, 2021)

MrBlitzpunk said:


> Tried the Zex Pro, and it took my less than a week to decide to sell it off. the treble, oh god that 8k peak is the most painful thing i've heard, and i don't even consider myself treble sensitive. the lows up to the upper mid, was great, it was perfect for the price. but then cymbals, and S/T sound came up... me, being not a treble sensitive person finally understand what treble sensitive person meant as "ear piercing treble". sometimes i genuinely find myself dreading to hear cymbals and S sound in songs, i was like bracing myself for an impact everytime i was expecting that 8k peak to show up... it's weird, since the rest of the treble were actually pleasant, (albeit still having this weird metallic timbre) it's only that specific region that's so ear piercing. it's almost like that meme where a horse is drawn in 3 parts, the tail end and the front legs were drawn magnificently but then the head was only a doodle.  i legit thought my unit is defective at first, especially when the reviews at the time never mentioned the treble being piercing or even metallic. but then again, both the left and right piece at the same time? aside from reviews, i find it weird that there was mixed perception about the treble, some say it's absolutely fine, and some, like me, hated it. unit variation? different ears hearing frequency differently? i dont know.



Treble is a very tough area to compare across users/listeners.

Other than QC/unit variation, there are a lot of other factors that can influence this treble department:

1) *Hearing health* - generally the treble frequencies are first to be lost with older age (presbycusis > 50 years old). Also some folks suffer from noise induced hearing loss (occupational/leisure induced), and they lose the 4/6 kHz areas more than other frequencies - this is cause the hair cells that transmit these frequencies are found nearer the outer ear and are the first to die with prolonged loud noise.





https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ganization-for-Standardization_fig1_338597788

For sure a 17 year old is gonna perceive the treble very differently from a 70 year old!


2) *Volume played at* - also known as the Fletcher Munson curve. Music is perceived to be more V shaped (more bass and treble) at louder volumes, whereas it sounds more U shaped at softer volumes. Hardly anyone mentions the volume they use their gear at, so this is an area of variation. Generally louder volume = shoutier.

3) *Eartips *- different eartips can tame/boost the treble. Foam tends to dull treble. Even among silicone eartips, the different material/bore length/diameter etc can affect treble perception.

4) *Ear anatomy *- this affects pinna gain and the perception of upper mids/lower treble region. Even for a healthy folks, some individuals can find a certain IEM shouty whereas another doesn't due to variations in the ear anatomy amplifying certain frequencies. Check out this post by precog: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/precogs-iem-reviews-impressions.937468/page-94#post-16524009

5) *Different sources* - some sources are brighter/warmer, which can affect treble perception.

6)* Music genre* - some music genres have more emphasized 8 kHz regions eg more cymbals and highhats in the recording, and they can sound splashy on these recordings, whereas some music genres don't really have much high frequency percussions.



So the adage "we all hear differently" and "different strokes for different folks" is true. Perhaps it is best to follow a reviewer or headfier who you know has similar music preferences or hears similarly to you, then that may be a better gauge.

I have left cables out of this talk, as it inadvertently leads to a flame war and the mods stepping in hahaha.


----------



## MrBlitzpunk (Dec 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Treble is a very tough area to compare across users/listeners.
> 
> Other than QC/unit variation, there are a lot of other factors that can influence this treble department:
> 
> ...


To address point no.2, yes i forgot to mention that the harsh treble is noticeably reduced when hearing at lower volume i usually listen at. But boosting it up from there just a little bit to my comfortable listening volume (one press of the volume button on my phone) brings it all back. It's quite a bit jarring tbh, it's the first time i've experienced that big of a difference with volume in any headphone. I thought it could just be my phone amp distorting but i've also tried it on my desktop amp to the same result
I consider myself to be on the slightly louder side of average in terms of listening volume, i'd say i listen loud but then again my friends sometimes listen louder so i don't know.

Btw im only 23, i could hear up to 16k. I don't know if that's is still considered normal for my age.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 21, 2021)

MrBlitzpunk said:


> To address point no.2, yes i forgot to mention that the harsh treble is noticeably reduced when hearing at lower volume i usually listen at. But boosting it up from there just a little bit to my comfortable listening volume (one press of the volume button on my phone) brings it all back. It's quite a bit jarring tbh, it's the first time i've experienced that big of a difference with volume in any headphone. I thought it could just be my phone amp distorting but i've also tried it on my desktop amp to the same result
> I consider myself to be on the slightly louder side of average in terms of listening volume, i'd say i listen loud but then again my friends sometimes listen louder so i don't know.
> 
> Btw im only 23, i could hear up to 16k. I don't know if that's is still considered normal for my age.


I'm an older person in early 30s, i still can hear the harsh cymbals and "sss".
Hell, started to hear treble harshness in BlackPink song that i never heard before with my old gears.
Also, pretty sure several other people complain about the same thing here.

One commenters in crin youtube page noted KZ have that harshness before. But it was masked with midbass and other frequency.
Now Crin leans out the midbass and other freq, that one harshness become more pronounced as the other noise used to masked it is gone. Not sure how true it is, but considering some of older KZ treble are downright painful for me but i don't realize that cymbal crash as pronouced like in ZEX Pro, it might be true.

Its a bit annoying because, if its wasn't for that one weakness, this is a great iem.


----------



## MrBlitzpunk (Dec 21, 2021)

r31ya said:


> I'm an older person in early 30s, i still can hear the harsh cymbals and "sss".
> Hell, started to hear treble harshness in BlackPink song that i never heard before with my old gears.
> Also, pretty sure several other people complain about the same thing here.
> 
> ...


i've tried some "treble piercing KZs", like the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, none of them bothered me, yes it's bright and shouty but i don't feel fatigued by them (i even used them to sleep sometimes). i didn't even realize how sharp/shouty they sounded before i started using other warmer sets of cans, unlike my gf that almost instantly noticed the sharp treble. i even have the supposed treble cannon that is the Samson Sr850, i don't know where the hate is coming from but for me the treble on SR850 is so smooth compared to the KZs. whereas the Zex Pro is the first headphones that i couldn't listen for long, i forced myself to like it, because where it's good, it's really good. i definitely  like the non-recessed and natural sounding mids. so it definitely has a strong point. but i've tried getting used to the treble, and i just couldn't. i kinda envy those who are not bothered by the treble, because this thing could've easily been my EDC.

edit: despite that, i have to say that i really like the direction KZ is heading with their new IEMs. hopefully they learned from ZEX Pro and iterate from that as their new house sound


----------



## dharmasteve (Dec 21, 2021)

MrBlitzpunk said:


> i've tried some "treble piercing KZs", like the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, none of them bothered me, yes it's bright and shouty but i don't feel fatigued by them (i even used them to sleep sometimes). i didn't even realize how sharp/shouty they sounded before i started using other warmer sets of cans, unlike my gf that almost instantly noticed the sharp treble. i even have the supposed treble cannon that is the Samson Sr850, i don't know where the hate is coming from but for me the treble on SR850 is so smooth compared to the KZs. whereas the Zex Pro is the first headphones that i couldn't listen for long, i forced myself to like it, because where it's good, it's really good. i definitely  like the non-recessed and natural sounding mids. so it definitely has a strong point. but i've tried getting used to the treble, and i just couldn't. i kinda envy those who are not bothered by the treble, because this thing could've easily been my EDC.
> 
> edit: despite that, i have to say that i really like the direction KZ is heading with their new IEMs. hopefully they learned from ZEX Pro and iterate from that as their new house sound


Of course we are all different. Anatomy, tastes, age, tips, cables, and numerous other factors determine how we hear things.
The 8k peak on this KZ ZEX Pro, I hear but find it gives 'edge' which I like.......yet the 8k peak on the original Blon 05 I find hard to listen to, and would call it 'nasty glare', which I really dislike. Of course we are all correct. An 8k peak will affect people differently. and some may even like it on one earphone, yet dislike it on others.  Some reviewers find it OK, some dislike it intensely. If someone likes a particular peak, or dislikes it, it is important because everybody has the right to choose something that gives them pleasure as opposed to pain. Also some earphones take to equalisation so that can change how we hear an earphone. We are all different in our subjectivity, which is unique to ourselves, and totally valid.


----------



## lushmelody

baskingshark said:


> Treble is a very tough area to compare across users/listeners.
> 
> Other than QC/unit variation, there are a lot of other factors that can influence this treble department:
> 
> ...


This is one of the most informative and detailed replies I've read here (also reminded the sad fact that we are... decaying, I guess 🥲)


----------



## r31ya (Dec 21, 2021)

baskingshark said:


> Treble is a very tough area to compare across users/listeners.
> 
> Other than QC/unit variation, there are a lot of other factors that can influence this treble department:
> 
> ...


Oh, yeah. i forgot to thank you in my previous reply.
This is way more detailed explanation of things that i previously only heard on surface level.

I listen to several "newer" kz that are considered sibilant, it doesn't bother me much. Unlike ear torture that is older gen KZ.
Things like KZ ZS5 is pretty damn harsh, then they up the harshness game with KZ ZS6. Not sure on the why.

But from KZ ZS7, ZS10 and the rest, its mostly already have "softer" treble.


----------



## dharmasteve

lushmelody said:


> This is one of the most informative and detailed replies I've read here (also reminded the sad fact that we are... decaying, I guess 🥲)


Or maybe becoming more tolerant as time goes by. Growing.


----------



## seanwee (Dec 21, 2021)

MrBlitzpunk said:


> i've tried some "treble piercing KZs", like the ZST X and ZSN Pro X, none of them bothered me, yes it's bright and shouty but i don't feel fatigued by them (i even used them to sleep sometimes). i didn't even realize how sharp/shouty they sounded before i started using other warmer sets of cans, unlike my gf that almost instantly noticed the sharp treble. i even have the supposed treble cannon that is the Samson Sr850, i don't know where the hate is coming from but for me the treble on SR850 is so smooth compared to the KZs. whereas the Zex Pro is the first headphones that i couldn't listen for long, i forced myself to like it, because where it's good, it's really good. i definitely  like the non-recessed and natural sounding mids. so it definitely has a strong point. but i've tried getting used to the treble, and i just couldn't. i kinda envy those who are not bothered by the treble, because this thing could've easily been my EDC.
> 
> edit: despite that, i have to say that i really like the direction KZ is heading with their new IEMs. hopefully they learned from ZEX Pro and iterate from that as their new house sound


CCA CRA?

KZ could copy and perhaps improve upon Crin's tuning and make it their own. Its a good start, I just hope they don't waste it.


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## IEMbiker (Dec 21, 2021)

I don't hear 8K peak in my ZEX pro, where compare to my other shouty DIY unit, clearly can see the the less refine 2K, 5k, 8K peak.
What I can say bout my ZEX pro unit is the treble a bit thin sounding, and less mid and upper bass.

Red: ZEX Pro, Cyan: DIY single DD.





DQ6 Mod tuning:


----------



## ri_toast

independent said:


> I like to look at Frequency Response (FR) graphs. For instance I personally don't like the old shrill treble and need my bass.
> 
> In fact if anyone (KZ) is listening. The reason I listen to headphones is to hear sub-bass and bass in detail. It is so difficult to get good sound reproduction in the (sub-)bass frequencies with speakers. The best speakers I've ever owned were JBL cinema speakers. Here's the thing, the problem with FR graphs is you might get the frequencies but there is a marked difference to the quality and in the detail of the bass representation.
> 
> ...


"You can't make detailed bass with a speaker without spending a lot of money"
one word.....sub-woofer


----------



## evasb

IEMbiker said:


> I don't hear 8K peak in my ZEX pro, where compare to my other shouty DIY unit, clearly can see the the less refine 2K, 5k, 8K peak.
> What I can say bout my ZEX pro unit is the treble a bit thin sounding, and less mid and upper bass.
> 
> Red: ZEX Pro, Cyan: DIY single DD.
> ...


How your DQ6 mod works?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

IEMbiker said:


> I don't hear 8K peak in my ZEX pro, where compare to my other shouty DIY unit, clearly can see the the less refine 2K, 5k, 8K peak.
> What I can say bout my ZEX pro unit is the treble a bit thin sounding, and less mid and upper bass.
> 
> Red: ZEX Pro, Cyan: DIY single DD.
> ...


I see no problems regarding the 8k peak. My pair is damn near perfect for the money.  I don't use my DQ6 anymore. 

But what i want to know, is how does the ZEX Pro compare the tri starsea?


----------



## evasb (Dec 21, 2021)

Is LCP (liquid crystal polymer) expensive?

Thinking about a reason why KZ didn't use it already. (I know they have their new thin diaphragm)


----------



## Viber

evasb said:


> Is LCP (liquid crystal polymer) expensive?
> 
> Thinking about a reason why KZ didn't use it already. (I know they have their new thin diaphragm)



They retail for about 15-20$.  I'm guessing KZ can get them for less than half of that number.


----------



## IEMbiker

evasb said:


> How your DQ6 mod works?


I use high density tuning foam from ali express and stuff into the nozzle.
Example:


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMbiker said:


> I use high density tuning foam from ali express and stuff into the nozzle.
> Example:





This mod huh? Your graph must look different because you probably dont have an IEC711 coupler?


----------



## Viber

I wonder how the old 18$ CCA C10 does Vs. the new budget KZs.    
I have a feeling they provide similar value...


----------



## Tzennn

Viber said:


> I wonder how the old 18$ CCA C10 does Vs. the new budget KZs.
> I have a feeling they provide similar value...


Most of them ... Yeah. Out of all kz i have tried only 3 stand out is DQ6 (subbass focus), ZSN/ZST (mostly piercing treble), ZEX/NRA. Most kz is just V shape with so so detail/res. But if you can eq them, they're extremely good, so sad that i sold my ZAX and didn't try to eq them.


----------



## IEMbiker

RikudouGoku said:


> This mod huh? Your graph must look different because you probably dont have an IEC711 coupler?


Yup I don't have IEC 711 coupler. I measure just for fun with my DIY rig.
IEC711 tend to give false peak on 8kHz.


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMbiker said:


> Yup I don't have IEC 711 coupler. I measure just for fun with my DIY rig.
> IEC711 tend to give false peak on 8kHz.


Its because we are aiming to have the peak at 8k to match insertion depth. 

Some are false alarm, some have a real peak there. Like the ZEX Pro.


----------



## voicemaster

Viber said:


> I wonder how the old 18$ CCA C10 does Vs. the new budget KZs.
> I have a feeling they provide similar value...


Zex pro reminds me of CCA C10 sound. The Zex pro has more sparkly treble and I can hear an emphasize on the treble on some tracks that is really annoying to my ears. I haven't burned it yet so it might change.


----------



## IEMbiker

RikudouGoku said:


> Its because we are aiming to have the peak at 8k to match insertion depth.
> 
> Some are false alarm, some have a real peak there. Like the ZEX Pro.


seem like we are a bit off topic. 
Here are the mic I use. The FR of the mic is as flat as possible so it does not color the measurement.
So there is no need to matching at 8k.
Many measurement with IEC711 have 8k peak, almost 80% of it.


----------



## saldsald

IEMbiker said:


> seem like we are a bit off topic.
> Here are the mic I use. The FR of the mic is as flat as possible so it does not color the measurement.
> So there is no need to matching at 8k.
> Many measurement with IEC711 have 8k peak, almost 80% of it.


Is it possible to calibrate it to satisfy the IEC 60318 standard?


----------



## RikudouGoku

IEMbiker said:


> Many measurement with IEC711 have 8k peak, almost 80% of it.


Its a standard to have it at 8k.




Inserting it deeper will have that peak at over 8k and shallover will be under 8k.


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## IEMbiker (Dec 22, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Is it possible to calibrate it to satisfy the IEC 60318 standard?


You must be kidding, is a 'DIY' project, when trying to meet this kind of standard, it will never achievable with single man DIY works.
I believe the copy IEC711 coupler from internet shopping will not comply to the standard.

Futher Reading bout the standard.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphone-measurements-the-new-standard-part-1.937301/

Have fun and enjoy this hobby, stop worrying bout standard.


----------



## unifutomaki

IEMbiker said:


> Have fun and enjoy this hobby, stop worrying bout standard.


There’s no need to be dismissive. Standardising for an 8K peak and ensuring that the measurement equipment at least tries to comply, or purportedly complies to a standard (which btw is itself defined by a manufacturing specification) is important for comparing FR charts across reviewers.


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## saldsald (Dec 22, 2021)

IEMbiker said:


> You must be kidding, is a 'DIY' project, when trying to meet this kind of standard, it will never achievable with single man DIY works.
> I believe the copy IEC711 coupler from internet shopping will not comply to the standard.
> 
> Futher Reading bout the standard.
> ...


Na, I don't mean a serious calibration. The calibration file contains amplitude offsets at different frequencies so I think it is possible to match your SPL graphs against those measured with an IEC 711 coupler. Your rig even have the advantage of identity true peak near 8k since there is no resonance to worry about. I personally only look at the features of these graphs like for peaks and extensions so I don't think it is important to be too accurate.


----------



## Wgibson

I think the point is, just get an iec711 or deal with non-standard measurements. I've been using a dayton imm6 but have an iec711 clone in the mail


----------



## unifutomaki

Been listening to the CCA CRA today and although it’s not perfect, I’m enjoying it so far. The only real issue with it is its relatively lean note weight and its (perhaps related) tendency towards harshness in the upper-mids and treble, particularly at higher listening volumes. In exchange, there is a fair amount of clarity and macrodetail on tap, although complex, busy arrangements might still meld together. The CRA has a mild V-shaped signature that leans towards brightness. Sub-bass is present but mild, certainly less than what the XUN driver is able to produce. Midbass is elevated but restrained. Lower mids are slightly recessed; male vocals could benefit from a tad more depth and presence. Upper mids are emphasised, but female vocals still sound fairly realistic and not “glassy” or seemingly floating above everything else in the mix. The treble is, to my ears, actually properly tuned. Cymbals are correctly reproduced with an initial strike and subsequent decay, rather than as a hissing sound. The CRA are also fairly airy sounding, especially for a budget IEM, with surprisingly decent instrument separation and soundstage width in this segment.

This album is particularly enjoyable on the CRA. Guitar-led Japanese rock.


----------



## unifutomaki

Good to know I’m not imagining and conjuring up my hype-bubble bursting criticisms


----------



## MacAttack7

unifutomaki said:


> Good to know I’m not imagining and conjuring up my hype-bubble bursting criticisms



I kind of hope my shipment gets lost so I can apply for a refund. 
It says, "arrived at destination country", but it's been stuck for almost 2 weeks.


----------



## emer08

unifutomaki said:


> Been listening to the CCA CRA today and although it’s not perfect, I’m enjoying it so far. The only real issue with it is its relatively lean note weight and its (perhaps related) tendency towards harshness in the upper-mids and treble, particularly at higher listening volumes. In exchange, there is a fair amount of clarity and macrodetail on tap, although complex, busy arrangements might still meld together. The CRA has a mild V-shaped signature that leans towards brightness. Sub-bass is present but mild, certainly less than what the XUN driver is able to produce. Midbass is elevated but restrained. Lower mids are slightly recessed; male vocals could benefit from a tad more depth and presence. Upper mids are emphasised, but female vocals still sound fairly realistic and not “glassy” or seemingly floating above everything else in the mix. The treble is, to my ears, actually properly tuned. Cymbals are correctly reproduced with an initial strike and subsequent decay, rather than as a hissing sound. The CRA are also fairly airy sounding, especially for a budget IEM, with surprisingly decent instrument separation and soundstage width in this segment.
> 
> This album is particularly enjoyable on the CRA. Guitar-led Japanese rock.



What would you recommend for pop, Rnb, & alternative tracks, cra or zex pro? Budget limited atm so can only afford one. Tia 😊


----------



## Tzennn

emer08 said:


> What would you recommend for pop, Rnb, & alternative tracks, cra or zex pro? Budget limited atm so can only afford one. Tia 😊


Blon/tanya better than kz for vocal


----------



## emer08

Tzennn said:


> Blon/tanya better than kz for vocal


Already have the tanya, didn't like the fit of the blons. Was planning to get either the cra or the zex pro/crn.


----------



## unifutomaki

emer08 said:


> What would you recommend for pop, Rnb, & alternative tracks, cra or zex pro? Budget limited atm so can only afford one. Tia 😊


CRA.


----------



## Coyro

unifutomaki said:


> Good to know I’m not imagining and conjuring up my hype-bubble bursting criticisms


The same story all over again.
Some Chinese brand has delivered a new budget IEM that sounds not too bad overall and has some zest in it.
People have tried it with the prejudice "oh, just another $20 chi-fi, it could be trash, no big loss" but suddenly it has exceeded the expectations. And another train starts rolling with the usual exaggeration: giant-killers/endgame/whatever.
Well, it's quite obvious that the manufacturer should not sell the true $2000 sound for $20, It'll be just stupid.

I've bought my set way before the hype because, well, it was a sale, I had the coupons, so I have picked a bag of cheapos (TA1, ZEX pro, Tanya, Summer, FC3, and so on) just to have fun with them, get scolded by my wife  and then search to whom I could gift it a bit later.

We had a LOT of QC issues and disparity with the cheap OMG-giant-killers in the past, we had an abysmal fit of the BL-03, shrill piezo of NX7, you name it. 
Moreover, it's not a one-size-fits-all gear, our ears are different, our tastes are different, our selection of songs and other gear differ, so I bet every single set could've found its lucky listener. Regardless of the price.

Sure, the best of the best hardly will be waiting for you in the bargain bin, but with the sum of about $10-$20, it feels like a shame not to try.


----------



## unifutomaki

Just in case this IEM couldn’t get any worse, the finish on my ZEX has started to develop pockmarks. Guess these are unsaleable now :/


----------



## IEMbiker

unifutomaki said:


> Just in case this IEM couldn’t get any worse, the finish on my ZEX has started to develop pockmarks. Guess these are unsaleable now :/


Mod it then, put in TWFK or 23x48 BA.


----------



## dimazbaik

emer08 said:


> What would you recommend for pop, Rnb, & alternative tracks, cra or zex pro? Budget limited atm so can only afford one. Tia 😊


Zst pro


----------



## dimazbaik

IEMbiker said:


> Mod it then, put in TWFK or 23x48 BA.


How to? Any tutorial?


----------



## lushmelody

Coyro said:


> The same story all over again.
> Some Chinese brand has delivered a new budget IEM that sounds not too bad overall and has some zest in it.
> People have tried it with the prejudice "oh, just another $20 chi-fi, it could be trash, no big loss" but suddenly it has exceeded the expectations. And another train starts rolling with the usual exaggeration: giant-killers/endgame/whatever.
> Well, it's quite obvious that the manufacturer should not sell the true $2000 sound for $20, It'll be just stupid.
> ...


Also EQ/PEQ is generally so undermined here. Tuning is not a permanent aspect of any IEM. Some issues can be fixed.


----------



## unifutomaki (Dec 26, 2021)

lushmelody said:


> Also EQ/PEQ is generally so undermined here. Tuning is not a permanent aspect of any IEM. Some issues can be fixed.


Well, I can’t really use EQ/PEQ and I don’t necessarily want to change my transport just so I can have that. Moreover, if you use a pair of IEMs across multiple sources and swap across multiple pairs of IEMs, it’s a pain to have to remember to swap EQ presets every time. IEMs can and should be made to sound as good as they can be out of the box, the responsibility shouldn’t be put on the end user to fix it.


----------



## IEMbiker

dimazbaik said:


> How to? Any tutorial?


I can do it on the NRA. Will post it in Home Made IEM after done document it.


----------



## lushmelody

unifutomaki said:


> Well, I can’t really use EQ/PEQ and I don’t necessarily want to change my transport just so I can have that. Moreover, if you use a pair of IEMs across multiple sources and swap across multiple pairs of IEMs, it’s a pain to have to remember to swap EQ presets every time. IEMs can and should be made to sound as good as they can be out of the box, the responsibility shouldn’t be put on the end user to fix it.


I understand your points, but I've never found a 100% perfect IEM (do you?). I always personalize/callibrate my setup - as a hobbyist - and that is a reason I would only consider an iPhone if i also buy a dedicated android DAP for music. Poweramp and Peace (SoundMagic was my Mac software, I think) are very easy to save and change presets, I consider them all easy software setup and way less work to do than carry an external DAC/Amp. PEQ made me revisit and reconsider a lot of IEMs (and HPs)... also save money.


----------



## dimazbaik

lushmelody said:


> I understand your points, but I've never found a 100% perfect IEM (do you?). I always personalize/callibrate my setup - as a hobbyist - and that is a reason I would only consider an iPhone if i also buy a dedicated android DAP for music. Poweramp and Peace (SoundMagic was my Mac software, I think) are very easy to save and change presets, I consider them all easy software setup and way less work to do than carry an external DAC/Amp. PEQ made me revisit and reconsider a lot of IEMs (and HPs)... also save money.


With peq even mpow could be turned into harman neutral


----------



## Coyro

unifutomaki said:


> Moreover, if you use a pair of IEMs across multiple sources and swap across multiple pairs of IEMs, it’s a pain to have to remember to swap EQ presets every time.


Hell yeah.
From time to time I forget that I could've had the EQ on one setup, plug some pair into the other, and get bewildered about what the hell is going on.


----------



## voicemaster

Coyro said:


> Hell yeah.
> From time to time I forget that I could've had the EQ on one setup, plug some pair into the other, and get bewildered about what the hell is going on.


Thats why I hate EQing on an IEM. I am a soundguy and I use EQ on professional grade mixer for FOH mix, but even that we mostly do not to change the tuning but to combat feedback or ringing in a room.


----------



## chinmie

voicemaster said:


> Thats why I hate EQing on an IEM. I am a soundguy and I use EQ on professional grade mixer for FOH mix, but even that we mostly do not to change the tuning but to combat feedback or ringing in a room.



yup, that's the whole essence of live EQ:to make the sound fit with the room without problem


----------



## PhonoPhi

chinmie said:


> yup, that's the whole essence of live EQ:to make the sound fit with the room without problem


Even if the room is a tiny ear cavity 


lushmelody said:


> Also EQ/PEQ is generally so undermined here. Tuning is not a permanent aspect of any IEM. Some issues can be fixed.


That is exactly one of the constructive points. 
Even with the same IEM and the source, the nature of music and even just the way it is recorded can change everything.
For instance, for my IEMs selected for  narrow interests in strings, modern electronics does not work without some serious adjustments.

I was just lazy to use EQ, but then I realized buying new IEMs and sources is definitely fun but still can't fully exclude EQ, which is great and nearly free tool.


----------



## Coyro

Well, have had time to fummel through my bag of cheapos from the last sale.
ZEX pro has the perfect shape for my ear. Earpieces, earhooks - all sit just well OOTB and give the possibility to tip-roll with a decent seal.

The lows feel too timid, I'm not a basshead at all but clearly used to have a bit more in this department.
Mids are the main course here for sure. Strings are beautiful, the vocal is lush, female variant feels a bit more forward but this could be tip-dependant and suits me quite well anyway.
Treble... well, you already know the story and it was told by the listeners with a way better hearing than mine.
Without EQ they could be offensive depending on song selection, cymbals do sound strange.

With respect to weight, fit and seal it could quite well serve me as EDC garniture, I think.


----------



## antdroid

I haven't reviewed a KZ product in a while, but the new ZEX Pro / CRN caught my attention. Here's my review/impressions of the new iem(s)

https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2021/12/kz-zex-pro-crinacle-crn-review.html


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 28, 2021)

Viber said:


> The quest for old ZSRs continues!




I've been logged out for a while (unintentionally) but thought it would be best for me to log  back in to offer you some assistance regarding the ZSR(v1).

It appears that your search for the ZSR(v1) has been frustrating and fruitless.
I share your disappointment.
The ZSR(v1) is still one of my top ten KZ's. I waited too long to pull the trigger on getting backups.
When I finally ordered the backups I received the ZSR(v2).

I HUNG MY HEAD IN DISBELIEF!

NOOOOOO!!!

 But it was too late.

So, yes, I share your disappointment.

Although it is very unlikely that you will find a ZSR(v1) I do have some "relatively" good news for you but you should act quickly if you find my solution acceptable.

To my knowledge, as an often silent but self-proclaimed KZ Veteran, I recall that KZ produced several hybrid models that shared some components during production. The only way, IMHO, to get as close to the ZSR(v1) sound signature is for you to pick up the KZ ES3 which shared the ZSR's 10mm DD and 30095 BA.

The ES3 was touted as a more thunderous ZST with a less strident upper midrange.





I would add that it is reminiscent of the ZSR(v1). Albeit, a slightly less dynamic ZSR(v1).

Yes, the ZSR(v1) with its 2BA+1DD design sounds slightly more dynamic (due to the additional BA) than the ES3 with its 1BA+1DD design and yes the ZSR(v1) sounds a bit more open (due to the additional space under the ZSR face plate) but as is common for KZ, the performance upgrade (ES3 to ZSR) was more about refining as opposed to reinventing.








 Note the difference in how much space there is behind the DD in both images.

Here are the reviews.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-es3.22976/reviews


I have both the ZSR(v1) and the ES3. The ES3's slow sales probably resulted in KZ not bothering to modify its sound signature (as they did with the ZS5, ZS6 and ZSR) because the ZSR was already waiting in the wings to be next up to bat.

This is great news for you. There are a handful of ES3's still available on Amazon as I write this.

https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Dynamic-Hybrid-Headphones-without/dp/B076H2BYYK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=1EFO3JG4PZQ53&keywords=KZ+ES3&qid=1640663699&sprefix=kz+es3,aps,240&sr=8-3


If you've got $60 then maybe it would be wise to pick up several sets.

In addition, in an attempt to mimic the ZSR's wider soundstage you might drill tiny holes (with a Dremel) in some of the faceplate's less conspicuous areas as I've marked in red below.





It's not the ZSR(v1) but it's as close as you'll get to that ZSR(v1) sound signature that you know and love.


----------



## r31ya

i found second hand KZ ZS7 recently as i browse around.
some paint chipping but seller says the sound are fine, still ponders whether buy that or just buy quarks


----------



## Nimweth

r31ya said:


> i found second hand KZ ZS7 recently as i browse around.
> some paint chipping but seller says the sound are fine, still ponders whether buy that or just buy quarks


Don't hesitate. ZS7 is the best KZ hybrid IMO. Same BAs as the BA10 but has DD for bass instead of the 22955 BA. Superb sub bass and no sharp treble.


----------



## dimazbaik

Could you take a photo what zsr v1 look like??


----------



## Godflesh (Dec 28, 2021)

> Here's another DQ6 to boot.
> One dynamo is connected directly, and two more through a 20 ohm resistor and a 300nF capacitor. With such parameters, they also do not participate in the sound (through the same chain, fittings are connected to the ZAS).
> Disconnection of the large dynamo confirmed that there is practically no sound on the small ones. Exactly enough so as not to interfere with one driver.
> Again props, which visually do not find fault with. Although I like the sound of DQ6, for simple music.


I will repost from the forum. It looks like the company is FOOLING all of us! Other headphones were also sorted out!


----------



## Godflesh

if there are engineers here, check the headphones KZ


----------



## seanwee

Godflesh said:


> I will repost from the forum. It looks like the company is FOOLING all of us. Other headphones were also sorted out.


How do you take it apart without any blemishes on the iem?


----------



## saldsald

Godflesh said:


> I will repost from the forum. It looks like the company is FOOLING all of us! Other headphones were also sorted out!


The 6mm DDs do make a sound but it is about 90% from the XUN and 10% from the 6mm. They are there for the final touch only. I have measured their SPLs long ago to confirm this.


----------



## Godflesh

seanwee said:


> How do you take it apart without any blemishes on the iem?


there is vacuum glue. disassemble by heating the case.


----------



## Godflesh (Dec 28, 2021)

saldsald said:


> The 6mm DDs do make a sound but it is about 90% from the XUN and 10% from the 6mm. They are there for the final touch only. I have measured their SPLs long ago to confirm this.


there are so insignificant these 10%, a controversial point. well, let it be. KZ ZAS check these headphones.Drivers are disabled there.Are all drivers working consistently?


----------



## dimazbaik (Dec 28, 2021)

Kz must do something about this news


----------



## saldsald

Godflesh said:


> there are so insignificant these 10%, a controversial point. well, let it be. KZ ZAS check these headphones.Drivers are disabled there.Are all drivers working consistently?


Which drivers are disabled in the ZAS?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Why the tinfoil hats in this thread,  suddenly? What possible interest would KZ have in shipping dead drivers that make mediocre noises and people don't really want anym.... ermm, I mean, uhh that just makes no sense at all! 

* Climbs back under rock *


----------



## lushmelody

Its CCZ revenge lmao


----------



## Godflesh (Dec 28, 2021)

saldsald said:


> Which drivers are disabled in the ZAS?


copy-paste from our forum.


> In ZAS, all fittings are connected through a 20 ohm resistor and a 300nF capacitor. Those. They practically don't work.
> Also, 8 pieces of resistors with a resistance of 0 ohm are soldered on the crossover. Purely for solidity.



 Another interesting thing. All this means that "crossovers" almost do not work for hybrid headphones. And on other headphones, all the main load on the dynamic emitter. That is, the reinforcement publishers, consider, work very weakly, or some of them are disabled.
P.S. I myself love the headphones of this company. But the latest models were disappointing, to put it mildly. Perhaps it's all about revisions.


----------



## Godflesh

I will also add from observations.


> I also tried to pick ZAS. It became interesting that the HF armature was playing. I soldered the wire directly and heard nothing, only at the maximum volume from the earpiece I could hear a barely audible wheeze. Thinking that the marriage could be, I soldered to the second earpiece. And again, a subtle crunch. The feeling that there is no membrane there either. The coil turns just make a sound.
> These are the KZ dummy fittings. Interestingly, the old KZ had normal fittings.


----------



## saldsald

Godflesh said:


> copy-paste from our forum.
> Another interesting thing. All this means that "crossovers" almost do not work for hybrid headphones. And on other headphones, all the main load on the dynamic emitter. That is, the reinforcement publishers, consider, work very weakly, or some of them are disabled.
> P.S. I myself love the headphones of this company. But the latest models were disappointing, to put it mildly. Perhaps it's all about revisions.


So what is making the sound in the ZAS if the the circuit 'does not work'? The thing is these are simple first order Butterworth high pass filters but not the kind of crossover you have imagined. The resistors are there for attenuation and having some zero ohms resistors are there yo complete the circuit since the circuit board can be reused elsewhere for more complicated applications. I am pretty sure they didn't do any calculations to tune their IEMs but by trial and error.

I don't like the ZAS maybe one day I will open it up to see what's going on inside.


----------



## lushmelody

Godflesh said:


> copy-paste from our forum.
> All this means that "crossovers" almost do not work for hybrid headphones. And on other headphones, all the main load on the dynamic emitter. That is, the reinforcement publishers, consider, work very weakly, or some of them are disabled.
> P.S. I myself love the headphones of this company. But the latest models were disappointing, to put it mildly. Perhaps it's all about revisions.


My 2 cents for the disappointing aspect is that they are visibly trying to get better timbral accuracy and overall tonality, but the drivers don't work well tuned with less extended treble. Harmanish KZ will require hardware improvements. No QC or dead BA scam


----------



## ChristianM

CCA's new IEM
https://www.facebook.com/groups/233356113820660/permalink/1225181737971421


----------



## Wgibson

Even a really quiet driver can take some energy from the main DD and help shape the frequency response. Doing "almost nothing" is very different than doing "nothing."


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I've worked with very large old school crossovers when building cabinets (30 yrs ago, now...). It's expensive to get this right. It's very expensive to get this right and to make it very small. 

Before getting too worked up I'd like to learn also the guts and crossover specs inside TOTL models, along with their driver breakdown. Subtlety in the math can have drastic impacts to the end result. I'm not an audio or electrical engineer, but I did major in physics. We need hard numbers before jumping to any conclusions.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Godflesh said:


> All this means that "crossovers" almost do not work for hybrid headphones. And on other headphones, all the main load on the dynamic emitter. That is, the reinforcement publishers, consider, work very weakly, or some of them are disabled.



Strongly disagree with this statement. Impedance is not the same thing as resistance. There are a lot of variables to consider in the circuit itself. 

We need to see a circuit diagram and the specs on each driver to make a more informed opinion. Even then, if you're not actively benching these components and tweaking a circuit design via trial and error, it hard to say with authority that a given component choice was a bad call. 

My .02


----------



## PhonoPhi

(Crawling from the rock reluctantly and starting a long post...)

Well, DQ6 "fooled" me - the most BA-reminescent DD IEM to my ears. Though, I do not believe the small DDs are totally non-operational; if yes - well, a totally amazing large DD, KZ! 

Before DQ6, CCA CSN had 30095 tuned quite gentle (to my taste, but nice for many), but it did work.

The CCZ case (Emerald) coupled with the reviewers sentiments of the "greatest hybrid tuninng" was indeed very concerning.

I do not have ZAS (did not need another hybrid with ZAX and CA16).

I could not help wondering what exactly 30095 is doing in treble-gentle AST. Disassembling AST is out of my curiousity budget/priorities for now...

In NRA and ZEX, that "dangling dime" driver was definitely detuned, but made some semi-decent sound alone (I did check in NRA with a disconnected DD ).
I can't help thinking how much delusional KZ was/is with this driver design. It likely started as an EST project, but then to make a dangling magnetic plate in between two coils not surprisingly happened to be much a more straightforward way to make sound. But what would be any advantage of this rigid driver compared to DDs on one side and piezos on another (as in fast and rigid) is absolutely unclear to me...

Anyhow, trying to borrow "the dramatism" and imagining/assuming KZ being a mastermind of ChiFi: the dilemma  KZ faced with CCZ praise by reviewers and their EST driver made an almost unimaginable (to me at least) happened - asking an external tuner to work with the eclectic collection of "EST", 30095 and a (presumably) good DD.

Now, if you remember, in all this context I felt very reluctant even to open ZEX pro that I got - I did assume tuning by "damping and disconnecting/downplaying"...

So wrong I was - I am really happy to admit.
ZEx pro tuning was largerly by a crossover, the perpendicular firing 30095 is still real there annoying many with  its 4 and 8 kHz peaks...

My hat is off for making the tuning, real tuning, to do a very good job of not de-tuning those quite limiting drivers but trying to integrate them.

To my surprise, I quite liked the "mature" tuning of ZEX pro, despite being the " KZ V" fun and liking ZEX original a bit more than leaner NRA.

Yes, I do like both ZEX original and ZEX pro - they are quite different, but I can appreciate both - either my insensitivity or adaptability  (well, the bass contrast between two of my favourite IEMs - a wide-nozzle ASX and AS16 is quite substantial).

Now, it would be fantastic to take the components of AS16, ASX and AST and making them work in a good tuning! (People can dream...)
KZ bass BAs are definitely at par with the best. The BA array in AST is amazingly fluid in upper mids.
Then some BAs are there to choose for the treble
For the mids, most missing in KZ tuning, possibly Knowles 29689 can be used to add $20-$30 to the cost, but to arguably make most difference. It could be amazing all-BA IEM at $180-$200...

Now, if to stick with the mantra of KZ being the major mastermind of ChiFi world, KZ can't possibly make a perfect IEM - it will keep all other ChiFi companies out of business 

Sorry for the long rambling post, and totally back "under the rock"...


----------



## Godflesh (Dec 28, 2021)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> We need to see a circuit diagram and the specs on each driver to make a more informed opinion. Even then, if you're not actively benching these components and tweaking a circuit design via trial and error, it hard to say with authority that a given component choice was a bad call.


I conveyed to the guys on our forum. If they want, they themselves will express and submit all the frequency graphs of each sound emitter. I just drew on the possible problems of some models of headphones. However, you can study the indicated models yourself. In any case, IT'S IN YOUR interests - you pay for the product that honest manufacturers promise you.
Thank you for your attention


----------



## nihil23

PhonoPhi said:


> (Crawling from the rock reluctantly and starting a long post...)
> 
> Well, DQ6 "fooled" me - the most BA-reminescent DD IEM to my ears. Though, I do not believe the small DDs are totally non-operational; if yes - well, a totally amazing large DD, KZ!
> 
> ...


Did you try or have moondrop spring tips? It's sound quite different than other wide bore tips with AST, tamed bass and more upper mid and treble. but now I liked it more than spinfit cp360


----------



## nihil23

Godflesh said:


> I conveyed to the guys on our forum. If they want, they themselves will express and submit all the frequency graphs of each sound emitter. I just drew on the possible problems of some models of headphones. However, you can study the indicated models yourself. In any case, IT'S IN YOUR interests - you pay for the product that honest manufacturers promise you.


Sounds more like conspiracy theory rather than true. Can you, please, provide a link to your forum?


----------



## chinmie

This is interesting.. i haven't touch or try the DQ6 yet, so I'm not choosing sides on this story, but I'm intrigued. 

from what I've read so far from this forum and from other reviews, people have generally positive reviews about the DQ6, especially considering its price. 

I'm curious what KZ would gain by putting extra drivers that (seemingly) not working? extra money? wouldn't they be able to have even more profit selling that with the same price without it? 
Even if say that driver doesn't make any sound, does just being there would effect the tuning acoustically? 
If the main reason is for aesthetics, does it work/do people like it? because other products, even cars sometimes put extras that only add to design while serving no practical purpose, yet people seems okay with it (because it does add design points). 

all in all, this news makes me even more curious to try the DQ6


----------



## evasb

PhonoPhi said:


> (Crawling from the rock reluctantly and starting a long post...)
> 
> Well, DQ6 "fooled" me - the most BA-reminescent DD IEM to my ears. Though, I do not believe the small DDs are totally non-operational; if yes - well, a totally amazing large DD, KZ!
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think that many companies were coming too close to KZ. They reacted like pros that dominate the low budget chifi for almost a decade.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 29, 2021)

chinmie said:


> This is interesting.. i haven't touch or try the DQ6 yet, so I'm not choosing sides on this story, but I'm intrigued.
> 
> from what I've read so far from this forum and from other reviews, people have generally positive reviews about the DQ6, especially considering its price.
> 
> ...


I understand the multidrivers is some marketing thing and _IS _KZs main thing.
The thing is i understand if someone to complain if things goes, _"oh my god this somewhat expensive iem with 10 driver sounds sucks and as it turns out only have 4 functional drivers"_

But while i avoided the $60+ KZ/CCAs (expensive to me and i prefer to get cheap iem from midfi company in that price, )They doesn't reviewed that badly.
_"It have ok ish V tuning with slightly off tonality but great resolution"_, is the default reviews on those $60+ KZ/CCA iems.
And the sub $50? well, they are still among the royalty on that territory.

I don't think they need that marketing edge so badly considering its their actual sounds that sold their iems (KZ ZST, ZS10 Pro, DQ6)
But KZ/CCA management might see things differently.

Hell, Crin intentionally sold CRN as ZEX Pros in the beginning to show KZ/CCA management that the new tuning create hype and sells even without his name plastered on it.


----------



## Godflesh

nihil23 said:


> Sounds more like conspiracy theory rather than true. Can you, please, provide a link to your forum?


https://player.ru/showthread.php?t=194485&page=207


----------



## Godflesh (Dec 28, 2021)

I know that there are many representatives from other companies. But there are no representatives from KZ company here. This is strange. I would like to ask them a couple of questions.


----------



## saldsald

Godflesh said:


> https://player.ru/showthread.php?t=194485&page=207


People there obviously don't understand these are actually not "crossovers" but just for summation of sounds from the drivers. Disconnect the main DD and hear with the ears.


----------



## XerusKun

Godflesh said:


> I know that there are many representatives from other companies. But there are no representatives from KZ company here. This is strange. I would like to ask them a couple of questions.


Have you tried joining the KZ official discord, they might answer your query there. There are 3 KZ representatives on that server I think.


----------



## Nimweth

r31ya said:


> i found second hand KZ ZS7 recently as i browse around.
> some paint chipping but seller says the sound are fine, still ponders whether buy that or just buy quarks


If you do get the ZS7, I recommend a copper cable (I use a Faaeal Hibiscus), wide bore tips (e.g. Spiral Dots) and amplification. They sound magnificent in this configuration.


----------



## r31ya

Nimweth said:


> If you do get the ZS7, I recommend a copper cable (I use a Faaeal Hibiscus), wide bore tips (e.g. Spiral Dots) and amplification. They sound magnificent in this configuration.


Haven't take it and it havent sold yet. I think the paint chips drives people away and new kz are aplenty.
Sound wise, back when i audition them back to back between ZS7 and ZS10 Pro, i still prefer ZS7 airy sound over zs10 pro.
I was a bit surprised because i genuinely thought the newer ZS10Pro will win it easy.

That being said, the smooth shell of ZS10 Pro is lovelier than the edgy ZS7 shell design. especially if you then press it against your ear via helmet usage
Tough in the end of that audion i walked away with TFZ King, so yea.


----------



## Viber (Dec 29, 2021)

Alpha Whale said:


> I've been logged out for a while (unintentionally) but thought it would be best for me to log  back in to offer you some assistance regarding the ZSR(v1).
> 
> It appears that your search for the ZSR(v1) has been frustrating and fruitless.
> I share your disappointment.
> ...




Wow, thanks for the detailed post! i was hoping a fellow ZSR fan will see my posts lol

Why the ES3 and not the ES4?  i remember the ES4 was more liked back then and i think it still sells pretty well.

Anyway, the thing which makes the ZSR so special for me is not sound signature or color or anything of that nature, it does nothing 'excellent' in sound actually.
 I like it so much because it doesn't distort,shout\whistle in vocals or must be EQ'd like most (if not all) budget IEMs ,EVEN AT HIGH VOLUME which is crazy for the price
In each session i ask "how the hell did these cost under 20$?" and then i blame myself for not buying 2 more pairs.

The reason for their 'mistake free' sound IMO is the fact those 2 BAs are right behind the filter and they actually block the DD from providing anything else other than bass. This design prevents conflicts between the different drivers,creates cohesiveness and cuts down on resonance IMO because the BAs are right in your ear and not somewhere inside the shell.

In other IEMs, like the ES3,ES4,ZSN,ZST pro etc, there's only one BA which needs to do too much and doesn't block the rest of the nozzle which may create conflicts in sound and lack of cohesiveness.

Are the new ZSR necessarily worse? or just sound different? i would appreciate a detailed A-B comp...  I thought about the CCA C10, but again, i think those 4BA might be too much to handle and create distortion in high volume and shoutyness.

I saw the new Fiio JH3 use a similar disign with 1 huge 13mm(i think) DD in the shell and then 2BAs in the nozzle, might give those a try, though i think the BAs are not right behind the filter as i liked in the ZSR.

BTW, we might have similar taste in music


----------



## dharmasteve (Dec 30, 2021)

Have had my CCA CRAs a few days. Immediately put Spiral Dot L on them. The CRA has very narrow bore barrels so the Spiral Dot's can come off. Out of the box the treble is clear, crisp, but a little forwards. After using to listen both to music, then to TV, non stop for a couple of days, the rough edges have smoothed out. Definitely a treble centric IEM....in a good way. Hard to fathom they cost me £9.10 pence. Personally I like the bass which is good on the Double Bass on Ornette Coleman, Tears Inside, maybe a tad lacking in firmness and forwardness. Guitars stand out very forwards in the mix of tracks. Staging has width and height, imaging good too, but not much depth. 2D rather than 3D. Very quick Bass, perhaps too quick in decay, so the fullness and mood of Tom Petty's The Trip to Pirates Cove, has a little more of a reserved atmosphere compared to the best. They are crystal clear and not harsh for me after a few days. They are fairly lean but natural in presentation and a really good listen. They do not portray the 'mood and timbre' of music as well as they present the 'precision and speed and decay' of music. Nevertheless so far a really good listen. They must be the best £9.10p IEM ever. There are better out there but not for £9.10p. Now to properly burn in. Really attractive and solid build. I've now put on the KZ 8 core 3.5mm OFC Upgrade cable, which costs about £5.00. Listening done on HiBy R5, Sony Xperia 5ii. From TV, a small Bluetooth APTX (HD) Transmitter to a FiiO BTR3.


----------



## RikudouGoku

CCA CA10: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003749119870.html

That vented (?) shell makes me think of the BA10....wonder how much (if at all) better it is compared to something as old as the BA10....


----------



## Nimweth

RikudouGoku said:


> CCA CA10: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003749119870.html
> 
> That vented (?) shell makes me think of the BA10....wonder how much (if at all) better it is compared to something as old as the BA10....


The CCA nomenclature is confusing. CA4 and CA16 were hybrids. CS16 was an all BA design. Should have been CS10, really! Interesting, though. Could be a good one although that dip in the mids on the graoh is pretty radical!


----------



## RikudouGoku

Speaking of BA iems. Here is my modded BA10






It needs PEQ as well though.



Red line = BA10 + Tanchjim filter + PEQ (predicted output)
Blue line = my target


----------



## InvisibleInk

RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking of BA iems. Here is my modded BA10
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wouldn't it be grand if we could all draw a target on the graph, overlay the IEM's measurement, and then push a button and have the PEQ-Target automatically created, saved, and applied.


----------



## RikudouGoku

InvisibleInk said:


> Wouldn't it be grand if we could all draw a target on the graph, overlay the IEM's measurement, and then push a button and have the PEQ-Target automatically created, saved, and applied.


REW does that for you if you want to. 
You need the target file and the measured iem.





200hz to 7500hz, under/above those area is better to do it manually. 



This site can also help somewhat.
https://eq.spion.dev/#/frequency-response=&compensation=&tab=frequency-response


----------



## Sebulr

RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking of BA iems. Here is my modded BA10
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is pretty much the peq, settings I use on my ba10's on poweramp, except I leave the midbass alone. I only found the peq settings on it recently, dunno how long it's been there. I love my ba10's


----------



## RikudouGoku

Sebulr said:


> That is pretty much the peq, settings I use on my ba10's on poweramp, except I leave the midbass alone. I only found the peq settings on it recently, dunno how long it's been there. I love my ba10's


Poweramp has had it for a while I believe. 

Mid-bass reduction is needed to clean the mud up. Way too much if its kept on stock AND reduced treble.


----------



## darmanastartes

The KZ CRN is a dramatic step forward for KZ, but the treble balance, timbre issues, and average technical performance keep the CRN from being an unqualified recommendation from me. These issues can be remedied with PEQ, but if you have access to PEQ the need for such a strong starting point in terms of base tuning is much less, and you might do better to pick something more technically proficient instead.

My full review, with measurements, a comparison with the Tanchjim Tanya, and additional images, is available on my blog: 
https://medium.com/bedrock-reviews/kz-crn-zex-pro-review-27ec63c792a5


----------



## LordGaara

Hi guys, I listen to pop mostly and have been using Blon bl03 for a year and love it but the housing was broken recently and now I'm looking for an upgrade. I love neutral sound with decent bass and smooth vocal, I mostly listen to female singers and want to avoid treble spike. I read a lot of reviews and thinking about buying IT00, looks like it has good reviews and will be a safe option, is there any better option in IT00's price range? Thanks a lot!


----------



## voicemaster

LordGaara said:


> Hi guys, I listen to pop mostly and have been using Blon bl03 for a year and love it but the housing was broken recently and now I'm looking for an upgrade. I love neutral sound with decent bass and smooth vocal, I mostly listen to female singers and want to avoid treble spike. I read a lot of reviews and thinking about buying IT00, looks like it has good reviews and will be a safe option, is there any better option in IT00's price range? Thanks a lot!


A lot of options now. Tinhifi t3 plus, Moondrop Aria, Blon BL07 and Tripowin Mele.


----------



## Dynamo5561 (Dec 31, 2021)

I was curious about the Vex Pro and the tuning looked quite promising considering it is also a collaboration with Crinalce. I ordered it and it just arrived today.





Out of the box the stock tuning is too bright for me and has "timbre" issues. As stated by many, you need to remove the 8KHZ peak and increase 10KHZ. That already is a great base for further individual adjustments. I also removed the 16.5KHZ peak a bit and decreased the whole area above 1KHZ, I personally don't like borderlining on Crins preference curve. This is what I ended up with:





The black curve is my target. After the EQ adjustments the IEM is incredible for its price point and also fixes the "timbre" issues which I honstely just see as an issue resulted by the FR. I was really surprised. Detail retrieval is above my expectations, bass has some texture to it, it is not a "one-note-bass". Soundstage is also good. I expected a neutral-boring sound representation looking at its tuning before, but it is really exciting. The fit is very very good for me (I have bigger ears), they also weight next to nothing. A steal for the price point if you can EQ.





For APO EQ:

Channel: all
Preamp: -7.6 dB
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1400.0 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 1.00
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2500.0 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 0.50
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 5550.0 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 0.60
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 7400.0 Hz Gain -7.5 dB Q 3.00
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 9700.0 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 1.00
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 11000.0 Hz Gain 8.0 dB Q 3.00
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 15500.0 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 1.00

Edit: The fit is not so good as first mentioned. After some time the elevations on the shell unfortunately create some presure on your ear.


----------



## dimazbaik

Dynamo5561 said:


> I was curious about the Vex Pro so I ordered it and it arrived today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What app did you use mr ato


----------



## Dynamo5561

dimazbaik said:


> What app did you use mr ato


APO EQ on PC and the Qudelix app with my mobile Qudelix DAC/AMP. You can use any EQ app that supports PEQ.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Teaser for upcoming review.

BA10 (modded) > Bravery/DT600


----------



## RikudouGoku

New year gift, KZ BA10 review:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-ba10-knowledge-zenith.23310/reviews#review-27607
Rank: A


----------



## JEHL

... At this point I wonder if owners of the ZEX Pro consider its teble worse than the Jade Audio EA3.


----------



## dharmasteve (Jan 1, 2022)

JEHL said:


> ... At this point I wonder if owners of the ZEX Pro consider its teble worse than the Jade Audio EA3.


After good burn in and a TRi Through 4.4 mm cable +Spiral Dot's + HiBy R5 4.4 balanced, the treble on my ZEX Pro is ameliorated and smoothed out considerably. I have been giving them lots of use and enjoy them much more after burn in. They do respond to burn in.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Among the various crash cymbals of the gods, a big 17" Paiste was used by Mick Fleetwood on the immortal song Dreams. Rumor has it that they had to track that crash separately to get it just right, because it was too loud in the mix when recorded live. It makes itself known in the first bar of the song. The decay lingers in the mix, holding the door open, summoning the listener deeper into the track. It's a simple and brilliant bit of percussion work.

On the ZEX Pro, this old friend is as perfect as I've ever heard it. Epic bottom end, vocals, backup vocals, that warbled and nuanced guitar work, and Mick's drumming are all fantastic. 

I'm using an old KZ brown copper cable, the white starlines, and tethered btr3k in FLAC mode.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

dharmasteve said:


> After good burn in and a TRi Through 4.4 mm cable +Spiral Dot's + HiBy R5 4.4 balanced, the treble on my ZEX Pro is ameliorated and smoothed out considerably. I have been giving them lots of use and enjoy them much more after burn in. They do respond to burn in.


Yeah that's about what i did as well. Changed the tips and upgraded the cable. 

ZEX Pro is my go to IEM. I've probably put about a 100 hours on them so far.  

I honestly don't know why people are complaining about them. Build quality seems excellent as well.


----------



## JEHL

I have to wonder what people have to say with spiral dot tips, since these seem to be extremely good at flattening peaks.

But I get the impression at this point that... Maybe the reason the 8kHz stands out so much is because everything below is otherwise perfect and I imagine IEMbiker's graph illustrates this perfectly due to lack of a coupler resonance, what you see is a bit of a bump instead.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

Viber said:


> Wow, thanks for the detailed post! i was hoping a fellow ZSR fan will see my posts lol
> 
> Why the ES3 and not the ES4?  i remember the ES4 was more liked back then and i think it still sells pretty well.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree with this post more. Zsr is the most cohesive kz iem I have heard. It's superb value. Recent purchase Ba 10 is beginning to grow on me though. Frank Ocean sounds airy and enveloping. Fit is odd. It never feels secure. Sandfair Dee tee 6 tops both though. Stage is wider and deeper.


----------



## Sebulr

Anycolouryoulike said:


> Couldn't agree with this post more. Zsr is the most cohesive kz iem I have heard. It's superb value. Recent purchase Ba 10 is beginning to grow on me though. Frank Ocean sounds airy and enveloping. Fit is odd. It never feels secure. Sandfair Dee tee 6 tops both though. Stage is wider and deeper.


I loved my zsr. But it's the only kz I broke. I put a standard 2 pin cable on mine, and foolishly put it in my jeans pocket. Snapped the pin off in the socket RIP. I think the ba10 are better though.


----------



## myromeo (Jan 1, 2022)

My ZEX pro (kz x crinacle version) arrived yesterday. Have only had a short listen thanks to spending last night in the emergency ward with my kid but first observations (versus the zs10 pro) are:

Fit - very comfortable, they sit more naturally with their wing bit.

Bass - seems clearer than the zs10, there’s sufficient for my liking. No spill over to the mids.

Mids - much more forward, I’m hearing detail and roll off in tracks that I haven’t appreciated before

Treble - I don’t hear this 8k peak that is talked about. Not saying it isn’t there I just don’t notice it.

Overall I am a fan of crinacles tuning and tend to EQ my other headphones based on his target and suggested autoEQ settings so having a set of IEMs near this target with no EQ is a great starting point.

Source is Sony NW-A105, euro capped version. I set volume to 100/120 and feed a Topping NX1s amp with input caps bypassed. Headphones in SE with a NiceHCK C16-1 16 core silver plated copper cable. Stock tips but I have some spinfit CP145’s to try.

The ZEX Pro takes a little more driving power compared to the ZS10 pro, maybe 10-15% more to reach the same volume level. 

 I use Tidal and Apple music streaming. Music genre is punk / rock / metal with a bit Johnny cash thrown in for good measures.


----------



## r31ya

myromeo said:


> My ZEX pro (kz x crinacle version) arrived yesterday. Have only had a short listen thanks to spending last night in the emergency ward with my kid but first observations (versus the zs10 pro) are:
> 
> Fit - very comfortable, they sit more naturally with their wing bit.
> 
> ...


Still daily driving mine, trying to see whats what in longer run.
But so far Zex Pro is awesome for small group, small/medium stage performance.
Band performance or small orchestra is great with ZexPro.

And as long as you avoid equipment that emphasize the treble, that cymbal crash usually happen in the back of the soundstage so its less assuming or annoying.

This is my go to listening for IEMs. While i'm not that educating in terms tonality accuracy, this sounds pretty damn good to my tin car ear.

That multi driver coherency...


----------



## HAMS

Are there internal component in the way if I plan to trim the wing part on Zex pro? I cut the wing on my kz s2 because comfort issue and I expect the same issue if I eventually get the zex pro.


----------



## independent

HAMS said:


> Are there internal component in the way if I plan to trim the wing part on Zex pro? I cut the wing on my kz s2 because comfort issue and I expect the same issue if I eventually get the zex pro.


Looks empty to me but not solid. Hollow I think.


----------



## myromeo

HAMS said:


> Are there internal component in the way if I plan to trim the wing part on Zex pro? I cut the wing on my kz s2 because comfort issue and I expect the same issue if I eventually get the zex pro.





independent said:


> Looks empty to me but not solid. Hollow I think.



Also looks empty and hollow to me. The back of the BA sits just below the wing part but not in it. There is some cables in the area either side of the BA, on one of my IEM’s these loop up towards the wing area so this may vary on sample. You could probably trim 3mm off safely but I don’t know what impact this would have on tuning.


----------



## highlightshadow

myromeo said:


> Also looks empty and hollow to me. The back of the BA sits just below the wing part but not in it. There is some cables in the area either side of the BA, on one of my IEM’s these loop up towards the wing area so this may vary on sample. You could probably trim 3mm off safely but I don’t know what impact this would have on tuning.


Yeah - might be a bit of a risk since internal pressure and cavity resonance is, i would expect, part of the tuning process unless they created the wing as a sealed / solid mass.
If it's hollow then it'll be contributing to the overall tone certainly of the dynamic


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

myromeo said:


> My ZEX pro (kz x crinacle version) arrived yesterday. Have only had a short listen thanks to spending last night in the emergency ward with my kid but first observations (versus the zs10 pro) are:
> 
> Fit - very comfortable, they sit more naturally with their wing bit.
> 
> ...


Your thoughts are the same as mine. I keep reading the same concerns. Regarding the 8k peak. Some other iems i have owned become fatiguing after listening to them. Maybe i'm a bit deaf, but i don't have any problems with my ZEX Pro at all or any 8k peak and i would be sure i would notice it after long periods of listening.

The fit is excellent. I always had problems with fit on my DQ6, but right from the start but the Pro fitted perfectly. I consider the ZEX Pro to slightly better overall than the DQ6, but its not by that much.

I'm beginning to think the people in the UK are getting a different iem as i don't see many negative comments from UK posters.

Like I've said before, for 17 quid, there is honestly nothing to complain about.

If KZ keeps up like this, 2022 is going to be a good year.

Rock on!!!!!!


----------



## highlightshadow

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Your thoughts are the same as mine. I keep reading the same concerns. Regarding the 8k peak. Some other iems i have owned become fatiguing after listening to them. Maybe i'm a bit deaf, but i don't have any problems with my ZEX Pro at all or any 8k peak and i would be sure i would notice it after long periods of listening.
> 
> The fit is excellent. I always had problems with fit on my DQ6, but right from the start but the Pro fitted perfectly. I consider the ZEX Pro to slightly better overall than the DQ6, but its not by that much.
> 
> ...


I'm super happy with my xCRN from KZ Aliexpress store .... sounds fabulous for the money ... definitely not fatiguing for me either and super comfy (using SednaEarfits always now .... but in the box from KZ i also got a set of KZ foam tips + a KZ zip soft case ... really nice ... didn't pay for them they just came in the box


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> Still daily driving mine, trying to see whats what in longer run.
> But so far Zex Pro is awesome for small group, small/medium stage performance.
> Band performance or small orchestra is great with ZexPro.
> 
> ...




@r31ya, that's a neat recording of _l'inverno_.  You're right about that coherency.  The mids are really good - lots of details and instrument separation there, but it doesn't just reach out and grab you by the collar or anything. Really gives Heart Mirror a run for it's money on complex tracks I've been sampling for my review.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 2, 2022)

darmanastartes said:


> The KZ CRN is a dramatic step forward for KZ, but the treble balance, timbre issues, and average technical performance keep the CRN from being an unqualified recommendation from me.


I've been reading these types of comments from every KZ iem for years but people keep buying KZ's and buying KZ's and buying more KZ's. Some people like hearing disappointment even when slight.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 2, 2022)

Godflesh said:


> I know that there are many representatives from other companies. But there are no representatives from KZ company here. This is strange. I would like to ask them a couple of questions.


No representatives from KZ here? Lol. Did you miss all the people hyping their imperfect iems?

How can QKZ create a VK4 (OG) for $13USD that even sounds better than all the 15 KZ's I've ever owned (even the AS10 and ZS7)?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I've been reading these types of comments from every KZ iem for years but people keep buying KZ's and buying KZ's and buying more KZ's. Some people like hearing disappointment even when slight.



Let's be fair here: people are still buying all shades of Grado, too, which exercise virtually the same commercial formula except that they do it on a longer time scale and at higher prices. _Ridiculously higher _prices for their upper tier stuff. And who likes un-modded Fostex? Nobody, really. There's still a whole class of modder sites out there still selling them. Back in IEM land, how many wins has Campfire really had this year? They released the Honeydew, a very mediocre 10mm DD to un-warranted praise for $250. *yawn*  And what's Sony's excuse? I don't see anyone dissing them for all the mediocre cans they churn out year after year (after year). Not to mention JBL. Don't get me started on Philips. 

People can come in here and say what they want about KZ, but there just isn't another manufacturer that really does what they do at the same scale, and with the same quality control for rock bottom prices. KZ seem like they're legitimately trying to evolve into mass producers. Most of the other chifi companies are boutique players, or they're just cranking out parts bin specials with low or no QC. I don't see other chifi competing with companies like Sony or Panasonic. KZ stands alone here.


----------



## dharmasteve

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Let's be fair here: people are still buying all shades of Grado, too, which exercise virtually the same commercial formula except that they do it on a longer time scale and at higher prices. _Ridiculously higher _prices for their upper tier stuff. And who likes un-modded Fostex? Nobody, really. There's still a whole class of modder sites out there still selling them. Back in IEM land, how many wins has Campfire really had this year? They released the Honeydew, a very mediocre 10mm DD to un-warranted praise for $250. *yawn*  And what's Sony's excuse? I don't see anyone dissing them for all the mediocre cans they churn out year after year (after year). Not to mention JBL. Don't get me started on Philips.
> 
> People can come in here and say what they want about KZ, but there just isn't another manufacturer that really does what they do at the same scale, and with the same quality control for rock bottom prices. KZ seem like they're legitimately trying to evolve into mass producers. Most of the other chifi companies are boutique players, or they're just cranking out parts bin specials with low or no QC. I don't see other chifi competing with companies like Sony or Panasonic. KZ stands alone here.


Well put. Most people starting off in our hobby cannot afford to spend lots of money. So many people start off with KZ and they are exactly where I started many years ago. I have since bought numerous IEMs and Buds costing way more than any KZ. I've come full circle because in reality KZ are really learning and they compete well at their price point. I'm impressed with the KZ Zex Pro, they are not the best I have by any means, but what fantastic value and sound quality for someone who is just entering our hobby or does not have much money. The vast majority of our brothers around the world do not have much money, so what a great place to start.


----------



## myromeo

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Your thoughts are the same as mine. I keep reading the same concerns. Regarding the 8k peak. Some other iems i have owned become fatiguing after listening to them. Maybe i'm a bit deaf, but i don't have any problems with my ZEX Pro at all or any 8k peak and i would be sure i would notice it after long periods of listening.
> 
> The fit is excellent. I always had problems with fit on my DQ6, but right from the start but the Pro fitted perfectly. I consider the ZEX Pro to slightly better overall than the DQ6, but its not by that much.
> 
> ...


So I swapped out the tips for the CP145’s and must say they’re a great pairing. I couldn’t get away with the CP145’s on the ZS10 Pro but with the ZEX Pro they fit very comfortably


----------



## whirlwind

dharmasteve said:


> Well put. Most people starting off in our hobby cannot afford to spend lots of money. So many people start off with KZ and they are exactly where I started many years ago. I have since bought numerous IEMs and Buds costing way more than any KZ. I've come full circle because in reality KZ are really learning and they compete well at their price point. I'm impressed with the KZ Zex Pro, they are not the best I have by any means, but what fantastic value and sound quality for someone who is just entering our hobby or does not have much money. The vast majority of our brothers around the world do not have much money, so what a great place to start.


I agree. I ended up keeping my ZAX over a few IEM's that cost a decent amount more than the ZAX.
To me , it just sounds pretty darn good...it makes my head bob and my feet tap!


----------



## chinmie

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Let's be fair here: people are still buying all shades of Grado, too



or Moondrop, Blon, Tinhifi, to name a few more examples.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 2, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> People can come in here and say what they want about KZ, but there just isn't another manufacturer that really does what they do at the same scale, and with the same quality control for rock bottom prices. KZ seem like they're legitimately trying to evolve into mass producers. Most of the other chifi companies are boutique players, or they're just cranking out parts bin specials with low or no QC. I don't see other chifi competing with companies like Sony or Panasonic. KZ stands alone here.


Who cares if KZ is the only one doing what they're doing?

Small companies pride themselves on what they output and the quality is usually higher.

As I said in the post you are responding to I bought 15 earphones from KZ (hyped on this thread) and compared to other brands they were garbage. The AS10 and maybe the ED9 being the best.

But I still got rid of all my KZ's not because I "dislike" KZ or the people buying them because I don't.

I stopped buying KZ's a couple years ago and time after time you guys keep complaining about what KZ creates.

KZ just keeps putting out crap earphones and it appears they don't care about their consumers as much as other companies which have better sounding earphones that don't sound metallic.

Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews said it himself, KZ uses crappy components in their earphones. Enough said.


----------



## evasb (Jan 2, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who cares if KZ is the only one doing what they're doing?
> 
> Small companies pride themselves on what they output and the quality is usually higher.
> 
> ...


I don't think anything below $50 is high quality, really. Even some over $100 iems still uses crappy drivers costing literal pennies mixed with some good quality drivers. I believe nobody here thinks that "Free shipping" is really free.

I don't know why are you so offended by this. Just buy whatever you want.

PS: ED9 is really crap compared with recent KZ releases.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

evasb said:


> I don't think anything below $50 is high quality, really. Even some over $100 iems still uses crappy drivers costing literal pennies mixed with some good quality drivers. I believe nobody here thinks that "Free shipping" is really free.
> 
> I don't know why are you so offended by this. Just buy whatever you want.
> 
> PS: ED9 is really crap compared with recent KZ releases.


I'm offended by laughing so hard at people complaining about KZ's but keep buying more.

You're right, if possible buy ChiFi over $50 and let good companies like KOSS create great headphones under $50.


----------



## seanwee

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who cares if KZ is the only one doing what they're doing?
> 
> Small companies pride themselves on what they output and the quality is usually higher.
> 
> ...


I remember it was mentioned here a while ago that KZ is just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

If they are cheap then why not? More releases are exciting at least and hopefully the KZ x Crinacle collab is the start of them putting effort into tuning their iems better.


evasb said:


> I don't think anything below $50 is high quality, really. Even some over $100 iems still uses crappy drivers costing literal pennies mixed with some good quality drivers. I believe nobody here thinks that "Free shipping" is really free.
> 
> I don't know why are you so offended by this. Just buy whatever you want.
> 
> PS: ED9 is really crap compared with recent KZ releases.


Cheap parts, yes. Cheap labour too. But in the world of iems you can do a lot worse than having bad drivers.


----------



## lushmelody

seanwee said:


> I remember it was mentioned here a while ago that KZ is just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
> 
> If they are cheap then why not? More releases are exciting at least and hopefully the KZ x Crinacle collab is the start of them putting effort into tuning their iems better.
> 
> Cheap parts, yes. Cheap labour too. But in the world of iems you can do a lot worse than having bad drivers.


Cheap labour is a systemic (and off) topic and not a particular brand issue


----------



## Kumonomukou (Jan 2, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who cares if KZ is the only one doing what they're doing?
> 
> Small companies pride themselves on what they output and the quality is usually higher.
> 
> ...



People need to realize buying KZ is like 'you get what you paid for' kind of deal with pleasant surprises in between. They used cheap components with new-ish annually. They're also one of the main factors brought multi-BA or high price IEMs down from the inflation. Why could they selling their items globally without extra shipping cost for sub $20? Because they literally don't care about anything outside of manufacturing and sending the bulk order.

Ironically, KZ is actually not a thing in China. Consumers there preferred going brands with Sony, Audio-Technica, or Edifier etc even if it's just for the budget ones. Looking at their terrible sale numbers on Taobao, KZ is almost exclusively targeting market internationally, and it's working for them. 

BTW KZ & QKZ could very well be two divisions in the same company based on QKZ official site just so you know.

*PS. HBB is not a credible source! Knowing his stories, I doubt he deserves much respect at all.


----------



## lushmelody

Kumonomukou said:


> People need to realize buying KZ is like 'you get what you paid for' kind of deal with pleasant surprises in between. They used cheap components with new-ish annually. They're also one of the main factors brought multi-BA or high price IEMs down from the inflation. Why could they selling their items globally without extra shipping cost for sub $20? Because they literally don't care anything outside of manufacturing and sending the bulk order.
> 
> Ironically, KZ is actually not a thing in China. Consumers there preferred going brands with Sony, Audio-Technica, or Edifier etc even if it's just for the budget ones. Looking at their terrible sale numbers on Taobao, KZ is almost exclusively targeting market internationally, and it's working for them.


I didnt know they were not successful in domestic market. I, personally, value KZ for getting a driver config and pretty good QC for a fair price. If you like modding and EQ they are pure gold and potential.

A good reminder is that in Global South things are 5x the price, so KZ is actually mid-fi stuff for a lot of people


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 2, 2022)

seanwee said:


> I remember it was mentioned here a while ago that KZ is just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
> 
> If they are cheap then why not? More releases are exciting at least and hopefully the KZ x Crinacle collab is the start of them putting effort into tuning their iems better.
> 
> Cheap parts, yes. Cheap labour too. But in the world of iems you can do a lot worse than having bad drivers.


I think the reason this KZ thread exists isn't because of KZ's lack of quality tuning that covers up the cheap components inside. It's the cheap components inside.

Time and time again people talk about the metallic sound coming from their KZ earphones.

That metallic sound has been heard inside the Zex Pro and we know for sure it's not from the tuning because it's been heard time and time again from KZ's and because this time they hired expert tuner Crinicle to tune the Zex.

Would you eat food that taste's metalic? Why do you allow your ears to devour a metallic sound?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lushmelody said:


> If you like modding and EQ they are pure gold and potential.
> 
> A good reminder is that in Global South things are 5x the price, so KZ is actually mid-fi stuff for a lot of people


Why would anyone waste their time modding a KZ? Just buy a better quality iem. If an earphone needs EQ it's a serious fail.

PS: Why are things so expensive as you say in South America? I can find good sounding earphones in Canada from American (and Japanese) brands for $5-$15.


----------



## lushmelody

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Why would anyone waste their time modding a KZ? Just buy a better quality iem. If an earphone needs EQ it's a serious fail.
> 
> PS: Why are things so expensive as you say in South America? I can find good sounding earphones in Canada from American (and Japanese) brands for $5-$15.


Because they provide the same or better sound for fractions of the price. I think @RikudouGoku is doing a good job modding + EQ and comparing the results to same config higher-end stuff


----------



## lushmelody

LaughMoreDaily said:


> PS: Why are things so expensive as you say in South America? I can find good sounding earphones in Canada from American (and Japanese) brands for $5-$15.


Are these $5-$15 earphones with enough technicalities for monitoring? Do those brands provide BAs or "ESTs" for that price?


----------



## Szymon The Crackhead

Kumonomukou said:


> BTW KZ & QKZ could very well be two divisions in the same company based on QKZ official site just so you know.



QKZ is owned by KZ - source: QKZ representative I asked through their aliexpress store. 

QKZ is not affiliated with KZ, and is ripping off their designs to mislead consumers - source: KZ representatives I asked through their Discord. 

Take from that what you will.


----------



## 1clearhead

In all honesty, the CCA CRA is a game changer. NO shoutiness, NO harshness, NO metallic sounding tones, just pure musicality with incredible textured sub-bass and natural sounding micro-details as if you're hearing it from micro dynamic drivers. It has a U-shaped signature at most and the included narrow-bore ear tips does a perfect job with tuning and comfort. These are a NO BRAINER as one of the lowest priced DD's to ever accomplish such feat when compared to many KZ's and CCA's combined. I have both the silver and black, since they're so affordable.



...Just my 2 cent's. 

-Clear


----------



## emer08

1clearhead said:


> In all honesty, the CCA CRA is a game changer. NO shoutiness, NO harshness, NO metallic sounding tones, just pure musicality with incredible textured sub-bass and natural sounding micro-details as if you're hearing it from micro dynamic drivers. It has a U-shaped signature at most and the included narrow-bore ear tips does a perfect job with tuning and comfort. These are a NO BRAINER as one of the lowest priced DD's to ever accomplish such feat when compared to many KZ's and CCA's combined. I have both the silver and black, since they're so affordable.
> 
> 
> ...Just my 2 cent's.
> ...


Easy to drive from any source? No need for upgrade cable? Thanks


----------



## seanwee

1clearhead said:


> In all honesty, the CCA CRA is a game changer. *NO shoutiness, NO harshness, NO metallic sounding tones*


Respectfully disagree. Its nails so many things like bass and treble extension, but the upper midrange harshness stops it just short of greatness.


----------



## seanwee

emer08 said:


> Easy to drive from any source? No need for upgrade cable? Thanks


Super easy to drive, no need for upgrade cable. I'm experimenting with tip rolling at the moment and so far the JVC spiral dots help tone down the upper midrange harshness a bit while making the soundstage a bit wider.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Kumonomukou said:


> BTW KZ & QKZ could very well be two divisions in the same company based on QKZ official site just so you know.


 We could start a conspiracy theory. We wouldn’t get rich, but we’d gain experience!


----------



## InvisibleInk

1clearhead said:


> In all honesty, the CCA CRA is a game changer. NO shoutiness, NO harshness, NO metallic sounding tones, just pure musicality with incredible textured sub-bass and natural sounding micro-details as if you're hearing it from micro dynamic drivers. It has a U-shaped signature at most and the included narrow-bore ear tips does a perfect job with tuning and comfort. These are a NO BRAINER as one of the lowest priced DD's to ever accomplish such feat when compared to many KZ's and CCA's combined. I have both the silver and black, since they're so affordable.
> 
> 
> ...Just my 2 cent's.
> ...


Preach it Brother! The choir has assembled


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lushmelody said:


> Because they provide the same or better sound for fractions of the price. I think @RikudouGoku is doing a good job modding + EQ and comparing the results to same config.


Please let us know which KZ models beat which other brands earphones so we can compare.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 3, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> Are these $5-$15 earphones with enough technicalities for monitoring? Do those brands provide BAs or "ESTs" for that price?


The Japanese brands provide better long term value because they beat KZ in sound quality because of the metallic sound that brand produces.

Who really cares about BA's as they don't sound as good as DD's or other materials like Neoydium.

BTW, I'm not a musician... you need to ask others about iems for monitoring.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

seanwee said:


> Respectfully disagree. Its nails so many things like bass and treble extension, but the upper midrange harshness stops it just short of greatness.


Re: CCA CRA

Wow, are you calling clearhead a liarhead?


----------



## dharmasteve

1clearhead said:


> In all honesty, the CCA CRA is a game changer. NO shoutiness, NO harshness, NO metallic sounding tones, just pure musicality with incredible textured sub-bass and natural sounding micro-details as if you're hearing it from micro dynamic drivers. It has a U-shaped signature at most and the included narrow-bore ear tips does a perfect job with tuning and comfort. These are a NO BRAINER as one of the lowest priced DD's to ever accomplish such feat when compared to many KZ's and CCA's combined. I have both the silver and black, since they're so affordable.
> 
> 
> ...Just my 2 cent's.
> ...


Agree. I hope those who want to detract from the CCA CRA have heard it. A fine IEM for little money. If they haven't, yet still detract from what the owners hear, that would be the opposite of what this site represents......honesty, and devalues the site. I totally agree with @1clearhead.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

whirlwind said:


> I agree. I ended up keeping my ZAX over a few IEM's that cost a decent amount more than the ZAX.



The only KZ product I regret not purchasing this year is CCA CKX and the AST.  ZAX has the detail of the C12 and BA10 but it's a lot less forceful about it. It's an extremely revealing and transparent IEM when paired with a balanced source. The ASF/ASX/AST, and the newer ZAS all get by with a matrix of the same driver type to achieve their numbers, but the ZAX is spec'd with more carefully chosen components. I'd buy a ZAX-II if it came with one of these newer DDs in the bottom end and they didn't change the BA drivers.  I never had the impression that ZAS was anything to write home about, but it's been overlooked due to many similar releases on the CCA side that were happening at basically the same time.  



chinmie said:


> or Moondrop, Blon, Tinhifi, to name a few more examples.



Those are the boutique players I was talking about. Moondrop, Thieaudio, Penon, and KBEAR's Tri all own midfi right now, outright. KZ hasn't managed to penetrate that particular sphere with their higher priced units. A big reason is that they do what they do for $25 sets to $80 sets and then use a bunch of outlandish marketing that doesn't live up to the promise.  



LaughMoreDaily said:


> KZ just keeps putting out crap earphones and it appears they don't care about their consumers as much as other companies which have better sounding earphones that don't sound metallic.
> 
> Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews said it himself, KZ uses crappy components in their earphones. Enough said.



Joke's on you, apparently. BGGAR has been one of KZ's biggest mainstream fans this year. 



LaughMoreDaily said:


> You're right, if possible buy ChiFi over $50 and let good companies like KOSS create great headphones under $50.



I think a whole bunch of chifi over $50 sounds very similar to KZ under $30. You need to break the $300 price point to get out of KZ's territory from the perspective of sound quality. That's why they're popular. 

KOSS aren't as good as AKG's cheapest and least talked about product, k52/72/92. I have the k52's and I've had several pair of KOSS portapros.  How long has KOSS milked those things with no real upgrade in driver or construction tech?  Try getting a pair of kph30i from France. It's about $45 USD after shipping, which is more than I want to spend for on-ear tech that the rest of the house / office can hear.  The K52 are the most comfortable HP I've ever had, and they sound great with a good source and a bit of amping. I paid 41 euros for them, shipped - which was about 2 or 3 euro more than kph30i at the time.  I haven't considered KOSS again.  Those crap AKG are about 98% of the Shure 840s, which set me back close to $200. I never even listen to them any more. They've been in a closet at my in-laws house as a backup pair.  



seanwee said:


> I remember it was mentioned here a while ago that KZ is just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.



they totally do. I've come to accept the Pokemon moniker for their R&D and marketing cycles. For a time it seemed like an evil scam. Now I'm just kinda impressed that they can keep it up. They've got engineering resources and talents that a lot of the other player's in this industry don't have. 



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Time and time again people talk about the metallic sound coming from their KZ earphones.
> 
> That metallic sound has been heard inside the Zex Pro and we know for sure it's not from the tuning because it's been heard time and time again from KZ's and because this time they hired expert tuner Crinicle to tune the Zex.



I've never heard this "metallic" quality that everyone complains about. Sharp sometimes, sure - but _metallic_? Like an errant triangle from the percussion section? IMO this word is regurgitated more than experienced. 

You keep referring to "people" and online reviewers. It's clear you're here to poke the nest a bit and see what buzzes out. Just sounds like you got a case of sour grapes to me after blindly splurging on a bumper crop of KZ's catalog and being disappointed with it. That's understandable - it's also why I've been very picky with which sets I've tried and left most of the others in the mid and higher priced offerings from KZ alone. I've argued it before  - but I think that KZ and CCA are at their best under $50, not the other way around.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Fell asleep with CRA and Linda. Pure bliss. 





These have fantastic treble extension and neutral mids. Lower mids are similar to NRA imo, just on the edge of being "good" and "thin". Lower treble isn't as forward as that set (no monster 8 kHz peak) and CRA is far better on the brilliance end when NRA runs out of steam after 10 kHz. 

On certain classical pieces (visited some Liszt and then Gorecki's 3rd)  they're destroyed and left for dead by Heart Mirror's detail in the mids. Horns and low brass suffer from the timid mids in busy sections. Timpani sound a bit muted and low percussion strikes aren't quite as crisp. With minor EQ? Pretty close. Pre-t-t-y dang close but HM is still the better set IMO for classical listening. Not everything about that hyper-detailed sound is due to driver thickness. For rock, jazz, and pop the neutrality of the bottom end of heart mirror betrays them and the CRA takes the cake back.  Metal is where it gets interesting between these two, but imma save that for my review. 

I would assume that final audio a4000 and tanchjim's single DD offerings would fare similarly. But damn 😍 these were like 11 euros, shipped. Not $40, $100, not $250. Like the others are saying here - CRA are just an incredible value.


----------



## 1clearhead

emer08 said:


> Easy to drive from any source? No need for upgrade cable? Thanks


Not really necessary, unless you want a more comfortable and thicker copper cable...



I decided to change it to this KZ/CCA copper cable. Sweet! 

-Clear


----------



## dharmasteve

1clearhead said:


> Not really necessary, unless you want a more comfortable and thicker copper cable...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm listening to the CRA right now with the copper upgrade cable and Spiral Dots. Good cable for £5. At it's price point hard to see anything that can begin to compete with the CCA CRA. For the price excellent value.


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## 1clearhead (Jan 3, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Super easy to drive, no need for upgrade cable. I'm experimenting with tip rolling at the moment and so far the JVC spiral dots help tone down the upper midrange harshness a bit while making the soundstage a bit wider.


It's all good. I don't expect everyone to agree. I'm just one reviewer of many reviewers that are blown away from the CCA's achievement with the CRA for the low asking price. So, I ask that those that follow reviews on a daily basis not to make their final conclusion based on just mine, but on a combination of other reviews as well to determine what's right for you. Though, the majority of reviews for the CRA's are very positive at the moment.

Cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## seanwee

1clearhead said:


> It's all good. I don't expect everyone to agree. I'm just one reviewer of many reviewers that are blown away from the CCA's achievement with the CRA for the low asking price. So, I ask that those that follow reviews on a daily basis not to make their final conclusion based on just mine, but on a combination of other reviews as well to determine what's right for you. Though, the majority of reviews for the CRA's are very positive at the moment.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Clear


Don't get me wrong, I've said many times the CRA is one of the best in the sub $50 and even sub $100 category and I'm happy the budget audio space has come this far. Back when i was starting my audio journey you wouldn't expect this kind of performance under $300, let alone $15

That said, I don't want to give people the impression that it is something more than it is and they end up disappointed. 


LaughMoreDaily said:


> Re: CCA CRA
> 
> Wow, are you calling clearhead a liarhead?


See above.


----------



## chinmie

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Those are the boutique players I was talking about. Moondrop, Thieaudio, Penon, and KBEAR's Tri all own midfi right now, outright. KZ hasn't managed to penetrate that particular sphere with their higher priced units. A big reason is that they do what they do for $25 sets to $80 sets and then use a bunch of outlandish marketing that doesn't live up to the promise



I'm hopeful that they could break that barrier, as they seem to make the effort to implement more "audiophile -preferred" tuning like the latest collaboration with Crinacle. their next phase should be sticking to that tuning trajectory while improving the quality of their drivers. 



1clearhead said:


> Though, the majority of reviews for the CRA's are very positive at the moment.



I'm also intrigued, because a reviewer-friend of mine that has mostly similar views on IEMs seems to also like it a lot, giving it his personal choice for best buy under 50 usd. 



dharmasteve said:


> I'm listening to the CRA right now with the copper upgrade cable and Spiral Dots. Good cable for £5. At it's price point hard to see anything that can begin to compete with the CCA



I'm curious, what's your opinion on the CRA compared to something like the Shuoer Tape Pro? if i remember correctly, you also have the Tape pro, and also (like me) are one of the few who like it


----------



## dharmasteve (Jan 3, 2022)

chinmie said:


> I'm hopeful that they could break that barrier, as they seem to make the effort to implement more "audiophile -preferred" tuning like the latest collaboration with Crinacle. their next phase should be sticking to that tuning trajectory while improving the quality of their drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Coincidentally I was listening to the Tape Pro last night. After not hearing them for some time I really found them refreshing to listen to. The Tape Pro have a fuller and more impactful bass, very suited to rock music. The Tape Pro cable is excellent. I think the CRA does treble exceptionally well. Maybe my age allows me to cope with treble peaks better than most, but I find the upper mids and treble on the CRA has the kind of mild 'edge' I like (although the glary peaks on the Blon 05, I cannot even listen to). The CRA bass, leading edges, don't have the same impact as the Tape Pro, but I think that the CRA has quite an 'audiophile' tuning and that is what make them unusual at this price point. For about £10 sterling they are probably the best in their price range so far. Context is important and at £10 they are uncanny value.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Kumonomukou said:


> BTW KZ & QKZ could very well be two divisions in the same company based on QKZ official site just so you know.


No, this is wrong. KZ reps have explicitly said that they are not related to QKZ. KZ only has relations with CCA and GK (sister-brands).


LaughMoreDaily said:


> Please let us know which KZ models beat which other brands earphones so we can compare.


DQ6 + High-density foam murders stuff like the Tansio Mirai TSMR-4 Pro, Audiosense T800, Moondrop KXXS, Fiio FH3, Shuoer Tape, Vento Conductor TC-500 Pro, Final Audio E5000 and a WESTERN brand like the Periodic Audio BE. 

Its S- on my list for a reason.


----------



## lushmelody

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The Japanese brands provide better long term value because they beat KZ in sound quality because of the metallic sound that brand produces.
> 
> Who really cares about BA's as they don't sound as good as DD's or other materials like Neoydium.
> 
> BTW, I'm not a musician... you need to ask others about iems for monitoring.


If metallic zing is a concern, the new black BAs sounds more natural, I struggled to differentiate AST tonality with other warm single DDs I own (NA2 and BL-03). So there is a progress about that issue, I suppose.

I tested SKS (old BA) that I gifted bf and the metallic issue was pronounced indeed (at least he doesnt care, just wanted a basshead thing for gym). It was a good test to conclude about the new BA sound difference.


----------



## Nimweth

dharmasteve said:


> Coincidentally I was listening to the Tape Pro last night. After not hearing them for some time I really found them refreshing to listen to. The Tape Pro have a fuller and more impactful bass, very suited to rock music. The Tape Pro cable is excellent. I think the CRA does treble exceptionally well. Maybe my age allows me to cope with treble peaks better than most, but I find the upper mids and treble on the CRA has the kind of mild 'edge' I like (although the glary peaks on the Blon 05, I cannot even listen to). The CRA bass, leading edges, don't have the same impact as the Tape Pro, but I think that the CRA has quite an 'audiophile' tuning and that is what make them unusual at this price point. For about £10 sterling they are probably the best in their price range so far. Context is important and at £10 they are uncanny value.


I too have been listening to the Tape Pro and have tried it with a balanced copper cable. The stock cable is very good but the copper cable just seems to smooth out the top end nicely and gives a little more impact to the bass. I really like it. I have not tried the CRA yet but have the ZEX Pro coming soon.


----------



## RikudouGoku

CCA CRA FINALLY HERE!!!


And I have already started modding it.   
(no its not bad, but that 5k peak needs to be deleted.)



Using my DIY foam mod (1/8 size), fixes the issue. 
You can also use Tanchjim filters




But I recommend my DIY mod, because the Tanchjim filter mod is actually pretty risky, you risk destroying the stock filter if you want to remove the tanchjim filter. Which is actually what happened to me.
















Filterless + 2 high density tuning foams is essentially stock filter + 1/8 DIY foam.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

lushmelody said:


> If metallic zing is a concern, the new black BAs sounds more natural, I struggled to differentiate AST tonality with other warm single DDs I own (NA2 and BL-03). So there is a progress about that issue, I suppose.
> 
> I tested SKS (old BA) that I gifted bf and the metallic issue was pronounced indeed (at least he doesnt care, just wanted a basshead thing for gym). It was a good test to conclude about the new BA sound difference.


Which earphone did KZ start using these new BA's?

I'm confused though as Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews said the ZEX Pro sounds like it needs better components inside yet KZ just got new BA's?


----------



## rggz

RikudouGoku said:


> CCA CRA FINALLY HERE!!!
> 
> 
> And I have already started modding it.
> ...



I'm a bit confused, if one's goal is to fix the 4k peak, it seems the peak remains in all mods, though? I mean, not as peaky as the stock but it's still there. Also, it seems increasing the front dampening boosts the bass too?


----------



## RikudouGoku

rggz said:


> I'm a bit confused, if one's goal is to fix the 4k peak, it seems the peak remains in all mods, though? I mean, not as peaky as the stock but it's still there. Also, it seems increasing the front dampening boosts the bass too?


The goal was to dampen/reduce the 5k peak, and the (1/8 foam + stock filter) and the (2 high density tuning foams + filterless) mod did that. 












And yes, in most cases, dampening the treble can increase the bass shelf a bit (0,6db difference here, not a lot).  After all, these mods affect the nozzle and that includes the bass. If you ONLY want to dampen the treble, you would need to have an iem with tubes so you can chose to only dampen the tube that is outputting the treble. (CRA of course does not have tubes.)


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

RikudouGoku said:


> DQ6 + High-density foam murders stuff like the Tansio Mirai TSMR-4 Pro, Audiosense T800, Moondrop KXXS, Fiio FH3, Shuoer Tape, Vento Conductor TC-500 Pro, Final Audio E5000 and a WESTERN brand like the Periodic Audio BE.
> 
> Its S- on my list for a reason.


Did everyone just read this? Inside his information it's hinted that you can make money by selling people KZ DQ6's with high density foam added in the nozzle.

How do you make cash? People like me don't like doing filter mod projects so in essence I'd rather buy a modified DQ6 from you (for a reasonable price). Try selling them on Etsy.


----------



## seanwee

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Did everyone just read this? Inside his information it's hinted that you can make money by selling people KZ DQ6's with high density foam added in the nozzle.
> 
> How do you make cash? People like me don't like doing filter mod projects so in essence I'd rather buy a modified DQ6 from you (for a reasonable price). Try selling them on Etsy.


Just sell someone with poorly tuned iems like shures or westone a ZAX for $1000 and call it a day.


----------



## chinmie

Nimweth said:


> I too have been listening to the Tape Pro and have tried it with a balanced copper cable. The stock cable is very good but the copper cable just seems to smooth out the top end nicely and gives a little more impact to the bass. I really like it. I have not tried the CRA yet but have the ZEX Pro coming soon.



I paired the Tape Pro with my KZ AZ09 Pro (with a bit of modification), and it's been my go-to TWS lately for all around music/movies around the house. the battery also last really long and the connection is stable. Currently using the flipped KZ starline eartips on it


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 3, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Just sell someone with poorly tuned iems like shures or westone a ZAX for $1000 and call it a day.


Knowing how close-knit is ChiFi, would not it be exactly the business of making money in "mid fi". 
The concept of "graduating to"... mid, high and other categories are surely most profitable concept sold by any business!

All my digressions from KZ to check what "I miss" taught me that not much.
Not that I do not appreciate Aria and TRI I3 (minus connectors), and really love HiSenior U4 for its mid clarity, but my favourite three IEMs to my odd tastes are AS16, AST, and modified ASX.

Recent CRA & ZEX pro were enjoyable, despite being spoiled with many other IEMs


----------



## r31ya (Jan 3, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> Knowing how close-knit is ChiFi, would not it be exactly the business of making money in "mid fi".
> The concept of "graduating to"... mid, high and other categories are surely most profitable concept sold by any business!
> 
> All my digressions from KZ to check what "I miss" taught me that not much.
> ...


Moving from Daiying Aria to ZexPro is interesting, unlike other iem like CCA CST, Tanya, and some other budget iem.
I don't miss Aria that much when i daily ZexPro.

Yes, it have its issues as its treble is less smooth that Aria and a fair bit more sibilant but all in all its pretty damn great. Not to mention its multi driver coherency is pretty damn good adding great layering on instruments better than single dd could do, it have its own edge against aria, not that much, still pretty good.
---
BTW hows do anyone here have tried Bamboo Forest Bird? how it is compared to CRA?
Local seller have begun selling short preorder for CRA and BFB have been sold locally for few weeks now.
The price is not that much different, but hows the sound quality difference?


----------



## 1clearhead

@r31ya,

You said, and I quote...
"BTW hows do anyone here have tried Bamboo Forest Bird? how it is compared to CRA?
Local seller have begun selling short preorder for CRA and BFB have been sold locally for few weeks now.
The price is not that much different, but hows the sound quality?"

My reply...
BFB LARK is my top favorite micro-dynamic driver along side with the CRA's. It's very similar in sound signature to the CRA, but doesn't have that 5khz peak that some may be sensitive to. So, even though they both sound similar to a U or slight V-sound signature, the LARK sounds more natural with better timbre, while the CRA sounds more towards an audiophiles technical and detail budget dream. I use the default wide-bore ear tips with the BFB LARK, which is a plus for me. No need to swap tips! They also perform better with more power like a DAC or AMP. They are definitely keepers in my book.



BFB LARK Frequency Graph *Courtesy of BFB

CCA CRA Frequency Graph *Courtesy of paulwasabii.com


Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## voicemaster

1clearhead said:


> @r31ya,
> 
> You said, and I quote...
> "BTW hows do anyone here have tried Bamboo Forest Bird? how it is compared to CRA?
> ...


Where to buy? I tried google but nothing, AliExpress nothing.


----------



## 1clearhead

voicemaster said:


> Where to buy? I tried google but nothing, AliExpress nothing.


They are a local shop in China and they can only be bought on Taobao.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.506f2e8diKOQMx&id=646162316475&_u=t206rtltra1760

But, if you don't have a Taobao account, below are some agents and their websites for Taobao services that can definitely help you. You can read their services and see which one's best for you.

1) https://www.howtotao.com/buy-from-taobao

2) https://goodhopefreight.com/taobao-shipping/taobao-shipping-to-usa

3) https://baohero.com/taobao-agent-usa

4) https://www.tbget.com

5) https://parcelup.com

Make sure you send send them the link below to purchase your item...

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.506f2e8diKOQMx&id=646162316475&_u=t206rtltra1760

Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## RikudouGoku

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Did everyone just read this? Inside his information it's hinted that you can make money by selling people KZ DQ6's with high density foam added in the nozzle.
> 
> How do you make cash? People like me don't like doing filter mod projects so in essence I'd rather buy a modified DQ6 from you (for a reasonable price). Try selling them on Etsy.


You know, I have talked with KZ about a collab that is basically that mod, sadly it seems they are going for BGGAR instead.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

chinmie said:


> I'm hopeful that they could break that barrier, as they seem to make the effort to implement more "audiophile -preferred" tuning like the latest collaboration with Crinacle. their next phase should be sticking to that tuning trajectory while improving the quality of their drivers.



Unpopular opinion to follow: 

Audiophile is a slippery word, anyway, but the community / persona driven audio gear gurus are not what I would refer to as audiophiles. People that are regularly publishing reviews on their own branded media channels and compiling data are engaged in a commercial enterprise, full stop. That's not _just _an audiophile. That's a gear critic. Some gear critics are audiophiles, but not all. I don't consider Crin an audiophile. BGGAR, yes. Crin, no. Zeos, no. Those guys have turned an expensive hobby into a profession and I think it's great, and I respect all of them. But what they're doing is not just an audiophile thing, it's a commercial thing.  

I got no beef with the gear critics, and I enjoy watching / reading the reviews as much as the next person. But let's not pretend that they represent what an audiophile is or should hope to be.  My preferred sound curve != social media gear critics. If manufacturers want to hitch onto a channel owner and get a sales bump, more power to both of them. But this activity is not being an audiophile. It's community driven e-commerce. 

Here's my point: the only thing that _*you*_ need to be an audiophile and to obtain audiophile tuning is a pair of ears. _*Your own ears*_. If you're buying gear solely on someone else's recommendation or due to hype in a small community, that's not being an audiophile, that's being monetized. 

Say what you want about how the Internet is changing the audio industry, just don't sully the word audiophile to have equivalency with the growing assortment of personality driven commercial enterprises.  You don't need them to be an audiophile.


----------



## countryboyhk (Jan 4, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Unpopular opinion to follow:
> 
> Audiophile is a slippery word, anyway, but the community / persona driven audio gear gurus are not what I would refer to as audiophiles. People that are regularly publishing reviews on their own branded media channels and compiling data are engaged in a commercial enterprise, full stop. That's not _just _an audiophile. That's a gear critic. Some gear critics are audiophiles, but not all. I don't consider Crin an audiophile. BGGAR, yes. Crin, no. Zeos, no. Those guys have turned an expensive hobby into a profession and I think it's great, and I respect all of them. But what they're doing is not just an audiophile thing, it's a commercial thing.
> 
> ...



At the beginning, I try to treat buying headfi so seriously.  Now, I don't see there is any difference to the women chasing handbags   I won't agrue with them cos the women always know better than I do about handbags.  They know what they want, and there is no need to worry about they may have post-purchase dissonance.  They will work things out eventually !


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

countryboyhk said:


> They know what they want, and there is no need to worry about they may have post-purchase dissonance.



Clearly, they are experienced purseophiles. The pattern. The color. The pedigree. It's all known in advance. Until someone spots a mismatch on the direction of leather grain on two opposing panels on the inside of the exterior flap. Then there will be hell to pay. _"Garbage!"_ one cried. _"A complete disgrace"_, said another.  hehe


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

RikudouGoku said:


> You know, I have talked with KZ about a collab that is basically that mod, sadly it seems they are going for BGGAR instead.


Going for BGGAR... you mean just getting him to tune a new iem model for KZ or BGGAR will be revamping the DQ6?


----------



## RikudouGoku

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Going for BGGAR... you mean just getting him to tune a new iem model for KZ or BGGAR will be revamping the DQ6?


----------



## Viber

After many hours of burn-in (and a visit from the IEM fairy?) i think i have almost done a 180 turn on the CCA CA16 Pro.   They sound pretty great all of a sudden lol  it's not brain burn-in because they were thrown at my drawer for weeks after i bought them.  I said W..T.F like 20 times yesterday.

I think i'll do a review soon. They are worthy.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

RikudouGoku said:


>



Tired:. Tuned by ... 
Wired:  short production run by ... 

Ever looked at building your own ... from Europe? how can we crypto crowd fund an iem specc'd by you?  I'd prepurchase that in a heartbeat.


----------



## RikudouGoku

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Ever looked at building your own ... from Europe? how can we crypto crowd fund an iem specc'd by you? I'd prepurchase that in a heartbeat.


Not into DIY iems from the ground up.

Collabs with KZ themselves is the easiest/best way to do a modded CRA/DQ6 with my flavor though.
Have asked about a CRA collab, its a beast with mods.


----------



## evasb

RikudouGoku said:


> Not into DIY iems from the ground up.
> 
> Collabs with KZ themselves is the easiest/best way to do a modded CRA/DQ6 with my flavor though.
> Have asked about a CRA collab, its a beast with mods.


Hope they accept a CRA collab. But the problem is that is still recent.

What about EDX Pro? It's not too far from the CRA.


----------



## RikudouGoku

evasb said:


> What about EDX Pro? It's not too far from the CRA.


they are 2 different species.   

CRA is leagues above the EDX Pro.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Jan 4, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Not into DIY iems from the ground up.
> 
> Collabs with KZ themselves is the easiest/best way to do a modded CRA/DQ6 with my flavor though.
> Have asked about a CRA collab, its a beast with mods.



There are premium audio brands here in France - triangle, focal, devialet. (And Deezer and qobuzon streaming side).  But no budget / midfi offering, really. People make the excuse that labor is too expensive, but I don't think that's it. 

It's super tempting to think about ...


----------



## evasb (Jan 4, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> People make the excuse that labor is too expensive, but I don't think that's it.


Are we talking about mass production? The labor will be expensive if we are talking about European labor. Even here in Brazil, people that remotely knows what they are doing will want salaries well above the minimum wage -- and they are not wrong.

In mid-budget, I think the best (maybe the only) way is having a small team that does small production prototypes and then use Chinese OEMs to mass produce.


----------



## independent

Hi. Wondering if anyone has managed to try out the new CCA CA10?

If it's a neutral (no high end wierdness) with good sub bass extension _and _detail it will definitely be tempting. The graphs on AE look completely useless just as everyone says. Just waiting for someone to try them out.

The IEM


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

evasb said:


> Are we talking about mass production? The labor will be expensive if we are talking about European labor. Even here in Brazil, people that remotely knows what they are doing will want salaries well above the minimum wage -- and they are not wrong.
> 
> In mid-budget, I think the best (maybe the only) way is having a small team that does small production prototypes and then use Chinese OEMs to mass produce.



The average salary in France is 23k /yr. There are millions on the government payroll working 3 days a week. Labor isn't an issue. There are excuses everywhere though and people seem to be conditioned to think that entrepreneurship is a dirty word. Corp tax rate here has fallen to 24.5%. Medical and retirement is all inclusive for everyone and the ultimate costs are less than US system. 

Ledger is the biggest manufacturer of crypto hardware wallets in EU and also based in France. These are complex devices that sell for a couple hundred euro. There's room for boutique players if they fight for it.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

independent said:


> Hi. Wondering if anyone has managed to try out the new CCA CA10?
> 
> If it's a neutral (no high end wierdness) with good sub bass extension _and _detail it will definitely be tempting. The graphs on AE look completely useless just as everyone says. Just waiting for someone to try them out.
> 
> The IEM



That big 22955 unit on the bottom end works well in the older BA10. This is using the newer BA tech with a similar driver layout, so it should be interesting. This sound tube structure they have is a new and interesting development.


----------



## independent

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> That big 22955 unit on the bottom end works well in the older BA10. This is using the newer BA tech with a similar driver layout, so it should be interesting. This sound tube structure they have is a new and interesting development.


Yah, the 's (22955s) version is in the ASX which has beautiful detailed bass. It's also in the AST. Really disappointed with the ASX QC and hoping something a bit cheaper might be as good without the risk of getting another ASX. Interestingly the BA10 and ZS7 share the same drivers except for the bass driver. I liked the ZS7 until it died. Mid and upper detail was good not quite as good as ASX tho. The DD bass was no where near the detailed effortless BA bass in the ASX. BTW I've owned two pairs of ZS7 and found the FR just perfect.


----------



## Podster

So just dropping by to say hey KZ’ers and to post my most listened to KZ’s ever (still have at least a dozen of them) for an inexpensive manufacturer they give an enthusiast a lot for his coin oh yeah, my top 3 well they are 4’s, 7’s and 10’s and this is the KZ thread so I assume you know the names before these numbers





Anyway Happy New Year KZ fans and I may buy a pair or two this year


----------



## HAMS

How CRA compared to kz edx not the pro? i mean not just the tuning but driver performance?


----------



## seanwee (Jan 4, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Unpopular opinion to follow:
> 
> Audiophile is a slippery word, anyway, but the community / persona driven audio gear gurus are not what I would refer to as audiophiles. People that are regularly publishing reviews on their own branded media channels and compiling data are engaged in a commercial enterprise, full stop. That's not _just _an audiophile. That's a gear critic. Some gear critics are audiophiles, but not all. I don't consider Crin an audiophile. BGGAR, yes. Crin, no. Zeos, no. Those guys have turned an expensive hobby into a profession and I think it's great, and I respect all of them. But what they're doing is not just an audiophile thing, it's a commercial thing.
> 
> ...


For me when i hear audiophile being used to describe a set, i'd expect it to reasonably reproduce the music to the creator's intent. No odd scooped out mids, no super rolled off dark sound, no bloated mess of a sound and no timbre wierdness that makes instruments sound very off.

Think polar opposite of what people mean when they say something has "Beats" sound.


----------



## Tzennn

RikudouGoku said:


>


The graph don't looks good to me, it feels like blon 03 in disguise.



These looks so much better, like KZ CRA without 5k peak


----------



## seanwee

Tzennn said:


> The graph don't looks good to me, it feels like blon 03 in disguise.
> 
> These looks so much better, like KZ CRA without 5k peak


Also doesn't have the extension of the CRAs 

Why are there two DQ6 X Hbb iems? one with capital B and one without


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

seanwee said:


> For me when i hear audiophile being used to describe a set, i'd expect it to reasonably reproduce the music to the creator's intent. No odd scooped out mids, no super rolled off dark sound, no bloated mess of a sound and no timbre wierdness that makes instruments sound very off.
> 
> Think polar opposite of what people mean when they say something has "Beats" sound.



This is what an audiophile _headphone_ is, not an _audiophile. _An audiophile is someone with an intense interest in music, understands the difference between critical and analytical listening, and is actively engaged with the listening experience and the music itself. Gear is a small part of the equation. I've known a lot of working musicians over the years. They only have 1 or 2 pair of phones and most of them think the gear obsession with the audiophile thing is completely ridiculous. Some of them also have gear collector's disease, but it's on the instruments and production side of the house, not playback. Where playback is concerned, artists are conveying a story, a message, an emotion. For them, the recording process is *averaged* out to reach as many minds as possible to deliver that message. End of story. 

A lot of what we do here on head-fi (firmly including myself here) is talk about collecting gear. Reviewers are talking about what gear to buy. Some popular reviewers are talking about their own preferences and working with manufacturers to reproduce their ideal gear curve for their kind of music and their audience. That's all great. My problem arises when people start to call one of those definitions as some kind of ideal "audiophile" tuning, and spreading their gear-guru worship outside of said guru's community. That's utter bollocks. 

"reasonably reproduce the music"  -  I tried to make this point in my NRA review.   With an inexpensive DAC/AMP and a $25 pair of IEM, anybody can do some critical listening and also be an audiophile. Everything else here is us arguing about luxury and bikeshedding about graphs according to one person's ideal sound. That's part of the hobby of gear collecting IMO, not being an audiophile. I've stuck around in this KZ/CCA thread and maybe 2 others because I came here to learn about chifi as a new segment in the audio industry. I spend the rest of my time discovering and listening to music.  

To reiterate:  I want people to learn their own ears and figure out what profile will enhance their listening experience for the music they enjoy listening to.  That to me is what headfi is all about, not just regurgitating a guru reviewer's ideal.  When someone wants to graduate to being an audiophile, all that really means is that you've got an obsession with focused listening to music, not just taste testing gear. Gear is not the point, it's just the price of admission. The real show for an audiophile is the music.


----------



## seanwee (Jan 5, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> This is what an audiophile _headphone_ is, not an _audiophile. _An audiophile is someone with an intense interest in music, understands the difference between critical and analytical listening, and is actively engaged with the listening experience and the music itself.


I made a similar post regarding audiophiles a few years back with my key point being that being an audiophile isn't about the gear you have, its the journey you take to get there, the time you spend researching, getting hyped, buying and then enjoying the gear. Developing upgraditis as you bask in the thrill of upgrading and getting better gear as your wallet screams for mercy. I trust many of you will know what I'm talking about.

Jeff Bezos could walk into a store and walk out with the most coveted audiophile gear most can only dream of having. But that wouldn't make him an audiophile, he's just rich.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

seanwee said:


> I made a similar post regarding audiophiles a few years back with my key point being that being an audiophile isn't about the gear you have, its the journey you take to get there.
> 
> Jeff Bezos could walk into a store and walk out with the most coveted audiophile gear most can only dream of having. But that wouldn't make him an audiophile, he's just rich.



100% - now you feel me


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Who cares if KZ is the only one doing what they're doing?
> 
> Small companies pride themselves on what they output and the quality is usually higher.
> 
> ...


I have no dog in this hunt but you really should give the DQ6 a spin.


----------



## JEHL

Didn't Pepsi learn a similar lesson in like the 50s? Why is this still a problem today?


----------



## chinmie

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Gear is a small part of the equation. I've known a lot of working musicians over the years. They only have 1 or 2 pair of phones and most of them think the gear obsession with the audiophile thing is completely ridiculous. Some of them also have gear collector's disease, but it's on the instruments and production side of the house, not playback. Where playback is concerned, artists are conveying a story, a message, an emotion. For them, the recording process is *averaged* out to reach as many minds as possible to deliver that message. End of story.



those gear collecting on the musician's/engineer's side can get ridiculous and damaging too.. and mostly the problem is apparent in music forums, which is really equivalent to headfi for hifi gears. i remember a friend of mine collecting every version of tubescreamers like searching for the holy grail. 

and the remedy to this gear lusts are the same both in musician's side or audiophile side: practice, get better at playing (or listening, for us here), get familiar to what you have now, and make note on what aspects of that gear that you like or don't like, learn to EQ, etc. 

I can't deny that auditioning higher tier headphones/earphones also helps a lot, and not everyone on this forum have that kind of chance or community in their vicinity to be able to test multiple gears personally.. that's why reviews and impressions are their only way to at least gauge what to buy. 

as a side story, before joining headfi, i was perfectly happy with my speakers and headphone that i use for recording/mixing. 
i joined this headfi when i was looking for IEM, and in fact my first topic/post was on this KZ thread, asking for KZ ATR. That's one reason why even though i currently have no KZ at all, i still really interested on what they're doing next. 

fast forward a few years, now i think i have reached my end target (which coincidentally was a gift from my dear wife), and would only try new things for curiosity sake or to replace my current gears if broken. I can still recommend few of my past earphones, and i even repurchased some them of that i know still sound good even with what I've heard afterwards to this day.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

chinmie said:


> those gear collecting on the musician's/engineer's side can get ridiculous and damaging too.. and mostly the problem is apparent in music forums, which is really equivalent to headfi for hifi gears. i remember a friend of mine collecting every version of tubescreamers like searching for the holy grail.



For sure guitarists are some of the worst gear junkies on the planet. If it's not pedals it's amps. and after they've sort-of decided on an amp they start chasing vintage mics. It never ends. One time I suggested to my metal friend "broseph: just get a lightly used orange head 'n cab, tweak your tracks in post and forrealllz call it a day. " Well, in the name of _art_ ... that'd be a big ol' NOPE. And that friend didn't speak to me for like a week.


----------



## chinmie

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> For sure guitarists are some of the worst gear junkies on the planet. If it's not pedals it's amps. and after they've sort-of decided on an amp they start chasing vintage mics. It never ends. One time I suggested to my metal friend "broseph: just get a lightly used orange head 'n cab, tweak your tracks in post and forrealllz call it a day. " Well, in the name of _art_ ... that'd be a big ol' NOPE. And that friend didn't speak to me for like a week.



yeah... i stopped lugging amps altogether after reworking my pedalboard using tech21 character amp sims and EQ, so I can basically get the same sound either live or recording by going straight to mixer. my friends always look at me confused because i always looking for clean keyboard amps when practicing  
never changed my pedalboard again ever since like 9 years ago


----------



## r31ya

seanwee said:


> Also doesn't have the extension of the CRAs
> 
> Why are there two DQ6 X Hbb iems? one with capital B and one without


More bass and more polite treble, yeah its HBB tuning.


----------



## r31ya (Jan 5, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> A lot of what we do here on head-fi (firmly including myself here) is talk about collecting gear. Reviewers are talking about what gear to buy. Some popular reviewers are talking about their own preferences and working with manufacturers to reproduce their ideal gear curve for their kind of music and their audience. That's all great. My problem arises when people start to call one of those definitions as some kind of ideal "audiophile" tuning, and spreading their gear-guru worship outside of said guru's community. That's utter bollocks.
> 
> To reiterate:  I want people to learn their own ears and figure out what profile will enhance their listening experience for the music they enjoy listening to.  That to me is what headfi is all about, not just regurgitating a guru reviewer's ideal.  When someone wants to graduate to being an audiophile, all that really means is that you've got an obsession with focused listening to music, not just taste testing gear. Gear is not the point, it's just the price of admission. The real show for an audiophile is the music.


Yeah, local reviewer that i follow is a music school owner, gear store owner, and also youtube audio gear reviewer.
He noted his preference (a treble head) as he try to give somewhat balanced review.
and his keyword in every end of his review is, _*"This is my take of this [gear], try it on your own if you can, and as always, trust your own ear"
----*

"This is neutral iems, so you could listen to music as it suppose to be"_ said sound engineer friend of mine,
_"ok, i'll try it... you know, i could use a bit more bass" _my response to that gear that i already forgot what it was. The looks he gave me after saying it, kihihihihihihi.

while i'm not basshead, hate it when excessive bass overpower other sounds (looking at you Sony Xtra Bass). but i always want slighly north of neutral bass with decent slam. So yeah, if i'm not audiophile because of not loving some dead neutral sig, well, i'll be happy to say i'm not audiophile. what can i say, what the heart wants is what the heart wants.

As someone who is music noob, one thing i like with headfi and chifi is me learning about my preference by trying different type of iem and with it, and more importantly to me is understanding music jargon by listening to it. not through some online description.

Understanding thin scooped mids sounds like, thick bleeding bass, wet vocals, metalic sound, sharp ass or smooth treble, dead neutral sound sig, intimate soundstage, all of that are interesting to me, helping me to know what i really like, and if not supported with cheap chifi and online reviews that help me pick one, i don't think i have the budget to do so.


----------



## unifutomaki (Jan 5, 2022)

I had some Amazon gift cards kicking around so I decided to order a Dayton IMM-6 and some vinyl tubing to play with. Great channel matching with my CRAs. Graph is raw and should probably not be compared with any other graph + I'm still learning


----------



## Wgibson

That is a great match. Fine, ordering a pair of CRA now.


----------



## RikudouGoku

unifutomaki said:


> I had some Amazon gift cards kicking around so I decided to order a Dayton IMM-6 and some vinyl tubing to play with. Great channel matching with my CRAs. Graph is raw and should probably not be compared with any other graph + I'm still learning


yeah, KZ QC is no joke.

My second CRA is coming soon.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Jan 5, 2022)

Speaking of audiophile stuff ... I just switched from Spotify to Qobuz over the holiday break after getting tired of waiting for Spotify's hi-def/res/whatever to show up. In the interest of a complete budget audio chain for KZ lovers, I recommend that you consider a Qobuz subscription to go along with an inexpensive dongle DAC and your mobile phone. I'm using an old Android with BTR3k in tethered mode and it sounds nearly the same as E1DA from my laptop.

First of all - I gotta say  this is nothing like Tidal, which I didn't really get along with. It was marginally better than Spotify to my ears and I had to really listen for differences on the MQA tracks.  On Qobuz I haven't had a single recording playback at less than cd quality (16bit/44kHz, aka redbook audio), and quite a bit of material has been streaming at 96 kHz sample rate or higher. At least to my ears there is a significant step up in sound quality compared to Spotify's wifi streaming or Tidal in my opinion when hooked into a good DAC. Straight out of my phone is clean and still has good dynamics, but with less texture, loss of microdetail, and reduced imaging and sound stage. Bluetooth SBC is the best my phone supports and it's still better sounding than the onboard DAC and 3.5mm port.

I'm not very good at collecting things and I hate spending time organizing and looking after stuff. Streaming solves all of these problems. When I want to explore someone's catalog, I just search for the artist name and *bam* there it is. Perfect. No RAID array backups. No monster external disk to mess with. Just my 4G  / DSL connection and a clean interface, as the Internet deities intended.  16/44 streaming works great over 4G.  It takes a few seconds to queue up a new track on the highest "hi-res" setting, but after it starts it's been consistently skip free for me. The thing Ive enjoyed about Qobuz is that it shows you exactly what sampling rate the track was recorded in; it isn't dressed up in MQA's proprietary format.  I don't believe that I can hear better than 16 bit / 44 kHz, but the hi-res material is certainly clean and plays back nicely when downsampled on my BTR3k, as redbook is the best it supports in LDAC mode or while tethered.  Playback at native sampling rate off my E1DA PowerDAC 2.1 is _nearly _identical to my ears, but the PowerDAC has better bass texture than the baby FiiO. That has a lot more to do with the DAC signature I think than it does the sampling rate.  

CCA CRA have been glued into my earholes for about a week now.  Their excellent treble extension really brings out slightly better soundstage, significantly better microdetails, and much better bass texture of these higher quality recordings. A few of my favorite tracks have not disappointed:

* Miles Davis' _Bitches Brew_ (Pharaoh’s Dance - killer track)
* The Beatles self titled "w_hite album"_ (Happiness is a Warm Gun)
* Pink Floyd's _Meddle_ (all of it).
* There's even a 2016 remaster of Floyd's Pompeii _Echoes_ recording.

The subscription costs around 15 euro on a month-to-month plan. Now what's neat here is that you can still buy the lossless files if you want to and download in the same app, or copy it on over to your favorite player free of any DRM restrictions. I'm a Linux user and the web player works fine in full hi-res, as do downloaded files on my Linux player. Tidal's web player didn't support full MQA, so listening on my android with a tethered DAC was my only option. 

I have to access HDTracks from a VPN here from France which is a bit of a pain. It's also a hassle to deal with a lot of big files if you don't have one of the nicer mobile DAC players. I don't hear any difference from Qobuz streaming and my small selection of HDTracks files. If you pay for the more expensive subscription (~ 20/mo iirc), Qobuz claims to offer up to 60% discounts on music purchases. Streaming works better for me, so I stuck with the cheaper option.

I listen to a lot of jazz, indie rock, and classical and coverage seems to be good so far, maybe a bit better than Tidal, but not as expansive as Spotify.  The one killer feature that Spotify has is turning a song into a radio station via their recommendations engine. Qobuz has a "keep playing" feature that will queue related material, but it's ultimately not as good as Spotify in that regard. 

I have no interest in this company nor am I getting any kind of kickbacks, just passing along my new hookup since it was a lot better than I'd expected.


----------



## InvisibleInk

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Speaking of audiophile stuff ... I just switched from Spotify to Qobuz over the holiday break after getting tired of waiting for Spotify's hi-def/res/whatever to show up. In the interest of a complete budget audio chain for KZ lovers, I recommend that you consider a Qobuz subscription to go along with an inexpensive dongle DAC and your mobile phone. I'm using an old Android with BTR3k in tethered mode and it sounds nearly the same as E1DA from my laptop.
> 
> First of all - I gotta say  this is nothing like Tidal, which I didn't really get along with. It was marginally better than Spotify to my ears and I had to really listen for differences on the MQA tracks.  On Qobuz I haven't had a single recording playback at less than cd quality (16bit/44kHz, aka redbook audio), and quite a bit of material has been streaming at 96 kHz sample rate or higher. At least to my ears there is a significant step up in sound quality compared to Spotify's wifi streaming or Tidal in my opinion when hooked into a good DAC. Straight out of my phone is clean and still has good dynamics, but with less texture, loss of microdetail, and reduced imaging and sound stage. Bluetooth SBC is the best my phone supports and it's still better sounding than the onboard DAC and 3.5mm port.
> 
> ...



Yeah, Qobuz users rave about it. I use a streaming service, but I'll never come to rely on it; I just use it to find new music to pruchase and download. Beats radio by a country mile, since I can find almost anything in a New York minute. I can't bring myself to care about streaming quality, though, since I can't hear its superiority. For me it will always be a glorified search tool.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 5, 2022)

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> I have no dog in this hunt but you really should give the DQ6 a spin.


That's not what I've heard.

I've read dozens of messages on the DQ6. All talk about harshness.

One person on here recommends a mandatory foam mod. I'd do it but my thing is to not mod earphones. No changing cables, no mods, rarely change ear tips. Stock is better for me.

I'm not sold. Sorry.


----------



## dharmasteve (Jan 5, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's not what I've heard.
> 
> I've read dozens of messages on the DQ6. All talk about harshness.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming that you have listened to the KZ DQ6. I hope you are talking from experience, otherwise the conversation has no substance. Personally I find the DQ6 are not harsh. Harsh is too harsh on the DQ6. It is an extremely listenable IEM.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

dharmasteve said:


> I'm assuming that you have listened to the KZ DQ6. I hope you are talking from experience, otherwise the conversation has no substance. Personally I find the DQ6 are not harsh. Harsh is too harsh on the DQ6. It is an extremely listenable IEM.


You may have missed my previous posts... a person should do research before buying any earphones especially when they may not even need them.

Send me a DQ6 and I'll start talking from experience, as you said.

I've owned 15 KZ's in the past and any future model can't have any bad issues like the previous ones I gave away (metallic sound/harshness).


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> For sure guitarists are some of the worst gear junkies on the planet. If it's not pedals it's amps. and after they've sort-of decided on an amp they start chasing vintage mics. It never ends. One time I suggested to my metal friend "broseph: just get a lightly used orange head 'n cab, tweak your tracks in post and forrealllz call it a day. " Well, in the name of _art_ ... that'd be a big ol' NOPE. And that friend didn't speak to me for like a week.


Love your posts man. Been following you for decades.

You don't mess with a man's guitar or his wheels bro.

Here's a photo of my classic 1990 928 Porsche GT. Apparently they only made a dozen RHD models. And a photo of my limited edition Peter Frampton guitar.


----------



## dharmasteve

LaughMoreDaily said:


> You may have missed my previous posts... a person should do research before buying any earphones especially when they may not even need them.
> 
> Send me a DQ6 and I'll start talking from experience, as you said.
> 
> I've owned 15 KZ's in the past and any future model can't have any bad issues like the previous ones I gave away (metallic sound/harshness).


I have been watching the conversation. Wide generalisations have never helped anyone because each specific IEM has its own reality. I've had about 8 KZs and three did not suit me, one a QC problem, and 4 are quite good. I have never in all my years on Head-Fi judged the sound of an IEM I have not listened to.


----------



## bhazard

Listened to the ZEX Pro today. If I didn't have EQ, I don't think I could listen to them for long periods. That treble peak is just too damn high.
It's really easy to cut though, and once you do the ZEX Pro sounds far better than you would think for the price.

It was a mistake to tune the 5kHz-8kHz treble the way it is. This could have been a monster value performer stock on just about any source.

Still waiting on the CRA to arrive, which I think will be tuned exactly how I would have wanted based on all the graphs and impressions.


----------



## MacAttack7

bhazard said:


> Listened to the ZEX Pro today. If I didn't have EQ, I don't think I could listen to them for long periods. That treble peak is just too damn high.
> It's really easy to cut though, and once you do the ZEX Pro sounds far better than you would think for the price.
> 
> It was a mistake to tune the 5kHz-8kHz treble the way it is. This could have been a monster value performer stock on just about any source.
> ...


I was wondering....if a person is older, say 50, is the treble peak young people notice no longer a treble peak for the older person?
I think it's close to certain that as you age the high frequency hearing is lost.


----------



## nraymond

MacAttack7 said:


> I was wondering....if a person is older, say 50, is the treble peak young people notice no longer a treble peak for the older person?
> I think it's close to certain that as you age the high frequency hearing is lost.








From: https://www.audiologyresearch.org/human-hearing-range


----------



## Ynot1

I recently put some micro-pore tape on a headphone driver to turn down the treble and it seems to work. But I had to put a pin hole on the tape to let some treble through.
It seems the bass and lower mid-range is not affected by the tape. This got me thinking about how headphones' companies create custom signature tuning with only one microphone and one driver. I think there is similar sine sweep done to measure the ear cup spectral response. I suspect the algorithm looks for changes in the higher frequencies to develop compensation curve in the custom tuning. Just a guess though, cause I never worked on this stuff. I know bass goes through even walls, mids like to bounce around like in a cave, and treble is very directional and travel short distances in a straight line. RF signals have similar behaviors depending on the frequency bands or wavelengths.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Ynot1 said:


> I recently put some micro-pore tape on a headphone driver to turn down the treble and it seems to work. But I had to put a pin hole on the tape to let some treble through.
> It seems the bass and lower mid-range is not affected by the tape. This got me thinking about how headphones' companies create custom signature tuning with only one microphone and one driver. I think there is similar sine sweep done to measure the ear cup spectral response. I suspect the algorithm looks for changes in the higher frequencies to develop compensation curve in the custom tuning. Just a guess though, cause I never worked on this stuff. I know bass goes through even walls, mids like to bounce around like in a cave, and treble is very directional and travel short distances in a straight line. RF signals have similar behaviors depending on the frequency bands or wavelengths.


Yeah, what he said!


----------



## Tzennn

Revisit DQ6:
When my DQ6 unit first arrived, i hate it... I really really hate it, they are shouty mess, on top of that cymbal hit really weird with this set, also no 3k peak that i like. After @RikudouGoku recommend the mod, i try it, love it, but put it away because they're too warm for my liking.
Today, i remove the foam, change to GK10 filter, put on widebore tips, they're gorgeous
Bass is so clean, mid is very very neutral, no harsh, no sibilance, they're absolute gaint killer



Also i noticed there is a slight boost at 8khz that sometimes noticeable on this set, using widebore tips somewhat tame it


----------



## astermk (Jan 6, 2022)

Anyone else think it would've been fun if Crinacle tried his hand at retuning the $100 KZ AST? I like to think that a 12BA IEM (the BAs in which are supposedly superior than the 30095 KZ used in the ZEX Pro) can at least approach the 'endgame' tier of technical performance when tuned with care. I haven't listened to the AST but my 1DD/7BA ZAX are already very good on a technical level minus the DD whose detail and speed noticeably lags behind the rest of the frequency spectrum.


----------



## seanwee

astermk said:


> Anyone else think it would've been fun if Crinacle tried his hand at retuning the $100 KZ AST? I like to think that a 12BA IEM (the BAs in which are supposedly superior than the 30095 KZ used in the ZEX Pro) can at least approach the 'endgame' tier of technical performance when tuned with care.


Thats what I hoped he would have done, having multiple cheap drivers to tune would have give him much more flexibility.


----------



## r31ya

Tzennn said:


> Revisit DQ6:
> When my DQ6 unit first arrived, i hate it... I really really hate it, they are shouty mess, on top of that cymbal hit really weird with this set, also no 3k peak that i like. After @RikudouGoku recommend the mod, i try it, love it, but put it away because they're too warm for my liking.
> Today, i remove the foam, change to GK10 filter, put on widebore tips, they're gorgeous
> Bass is so clean, mid is very very neutral, no harsh, no sibilance, they're absolute gaint killer
> ...


my widebore tips is too loose to be used on ZEXPro
any tips on how to make it fit?


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 6, 2022)

r31ya said:


> my widebore tips is too loose to be used on ZEXPro
> any tips on how to make it fit?


Some o rings that u can buy for your mechanic keyboard ._.
Edit: it looks like this and just wear it at the bottom of your installed tips


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 6, 2022)

Wow, there is a way to shut up a mechanical keyboard?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> So yeah, if i'm not audiophile because of not loving some dead neutral sig, well, i'll be happy to say i'm not audiophile.



It's a great point, but the IEM and headphone people's ideal for what an audiophile is or isn't is different again for other weirdos in the audio world. For some folks, being an audiophile used to mean that you didn't have any vinyl less than 180g in your collection, and if you did, it was defensible as a rare original release of some kind. Other people believe that if there's not at least one horn driver in your speaker cabinets, you have no such claim to being an audiophile. Some purists demand _infinite baffle _or open back dual cone speakers in their setups. Then there are the tube amp people, but the tech is hard to come by and hyper expensive relative to solid state tech that fits in the palm of your hand and has arguably the same quality. And what miffs them the most is that a DAC tweak can accurately reproduce any tube profile you could ever want. But I digress...

The point is this: technology changes, and tastes change with it. We are drowning in digitally produced music and that flat, lifeless bass expectation is just not a good ideal target for anyone. Crin has a ruler flat profile that is _possibly _ideal for people doing studio work, but it's joyless, otherwise. I'm not a fan at all. Sony V6 is more fun than that curve, and it wasn't meant to be "fun". 

In year 2022, there is such an extreme range of variation in music genres and music production methods that its foolhardy to pretend that a single response curve is an ideal for all recordings. You can't gauge timbre on synth based strings produced in Ableton with a chain of 10 effects behind it the same as a live recording of a string quartet. You just can't. I just can't hide my open contempt for this kind of grading and ranking on absolutes. An earphone that is terrible for classical music might be great for reggae, and it might be terrible for either of those but sound great for Eminem. That's just fine by my book. It doesn't mean it's not a good headphone. 

"High Fidelity" is supposed to mean that you hear a recording as the "artist intended" and that the sound isn't colored by the equipment. Unfortunately, chasing that idea is a fool's errand. You're going to hear exactly what the sound mixers, engineers, and studio producers want you to hear. Artists have little say in the matter these days, unless they're producing on their own or for an indie label. And even then a lot of independent producers have a very rigid toolchain of DIY and off-the-shelf tech that they're going to apply to the mix, like it or not. The range of technique and method exercised in digital mixing and production is as infinite as there are people making music, which these days, is a whole bunch. The idea that one headphone's response curve is a rank "S" of for all music, globally, is just silly. All that means to me is that _nothing sounds bad _on that particular phone_, _but that _a whole lot of music doesn't sound great, _either_.  _These rankings are made according to averages. When I listen to Bach I want sublime. 

From a headfi and audio community perspective, how a listener engages with the music is much more important than chasing a technical ideal for the old definitions of the audiophile pursuit between critical and analytical listening. The kind of tuning that is generally heralded as being an "audiophile" tuning is typically skewed toward this more analytical listening where a warm, flat'ish midrange and rolled off treble helps sit through long listening sessions when exploring a specific genre or catalog. Critical listening is a bit more demanding and getting the balance right can be tough for a specific genre. It's a different kind of listening when picking apart how a french horn segment is supporting the parts being played on the reeds in a symphony. It doesn't mean that one or the other isn't _Audiophile Approved_ activity, but limiting yourself to one curve for all music and both kinds of listening just isn't logical. 

And then we get back to engagement. Putting these old fogey definitions of what an audiophile is aside, there's so much variation in how music is made, how it's delivered, and what culture that it comes from (or is mixed up from) that what sounds good and helps you enjoy what you're hearing is ultimately more important than any possible definition of psycho-acoustic rigidity. Learn your ears, and stick around for those folks that are telling you the same thing. 



InvisibleInk said:


> I can't hear its superiority. For me it will always be a glorified search tool.



Maybe that's why I don't like local collections and music players. It's a glorified "on-repeat" tool.  ;^)


----------



## ExTubeGamer

astermk said:


> Anyone else think it would've been fun if Crinacle tried his hand at retuning the $100 KZ AST? I like to think that a 12BA IEM (the BAs in which are supposedly superior than the 30095 KZ used in the ZEX Pro) can at least approach the 'endgame' tier of technical performance when tuned with care. I haven't listened to the AST but my 1DD/7BA ZAX are already very good on a technical level minus the DD whose detail and speed noticeably lags behind the rest of the frequency spectrum.


I have gotten really good results out of EQ'ing the original AST. The best we can hope for is that KZ starts tuning future IEMs using their experience.


----------



## Ykaep (Jan 6, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> Wow, there is a way to shut up a mechanical keyboard?


Yeah there are many ways. But using o-rings has its cons like it reduces the traveling distance of the key.
You can do other things to silence the keyboard like using specific silent switches or putting dampening foam between the pcb and the bottom of the case, etc.. Also lubing helps.

---

Also, the Zex Pro I ordered a month ago arrived few days ago. Sadly one of the sides doesnt work  so I asked for a refund and got my money back. 
I took some pics (sorry for the bad quality) and it seems that the one on the right pic has more more soldering points compared to the other? Im a complete newb in this but is that supposed to be like that? or should both be the same?
(The one that doesnt work is the one on the left picture)


----------



## dimazbaik

My condolences, i hope you make it and get either your refund or he sent you other units @Ykaep


----------



## Ykaep (Jan 6, 2022)

dimazbaik said:


> My condolences, i hope you make it and get either your refund or he sent you other units @Ykaep


I already got a refund so thats fine. Sad thing is I used a coupon that its no longer avaliable (12€ for the IEMs) so I dont think I'll order them again seeing the problems that it has without EQ and how people are divided about them being good or not.

Gonna wait for the next thing that knowing the chifi market wont be long, and sit on the DQ6 that, with RikudouGoku's mod, have been great so far.


----------



## dimazbaik

Ykaep said:


> I already got a refund so thats fine. Sad thing is I used a coupon that its no longer avaliable (12€ for the IEMs) so I dont think I'll order them again seeing the problems that it has without EQ and how people are divided about them being good or not.
> 
> Gonna wait for the next thing that knowing the chifi market, wont be long, and sit on the DQ6 that, with RikudouGoku's mod, have been great so far.


Lot of good iem come by.. Cra is example or newest tripo~ or dq6 hbb


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Love your posts man. Been following you for decades.
> 
> You don't mess with a man's guitar or his wheels bro.
> 
> Here's a photo of my classic 1990 928 Porsche GT. Apparently they only made a dozen RHD models. And a photo of my limited edition Peter Frampton guitar.



thanks man, and Nice axes! And that 928 is super clean :-o 32v V8. Never got to drive one but I did used to have a 930. Selling that car was one of the dumbest things I've ever done.   

I've been dreaming lately about molesting a 924 with one of those Mach-E electric crate motors from Ford. 280 hp and 317 ft/lbs of instant torque would make for a pretty wild ride on 205s on the rears. Imagine being able to just light up anywhere at any speed, but to run silently and not interfere with a monster 2000 watt system built around Focal drivers.  </car nerd>


----------



## lgcubana (Jan 6, 2022)

[edit for poor choice of wording, “departed”]
*KZ ZS7*

Still a banger.  I got the ZS7 early on, in my crossover from Headphones to IEMs.  So I didn't realize (at the time) that driver flex isn't the end of the world and relegated them to the box of regrets.  But had no intention to discard them as it was one of the O.G.'s (I think it was the departed “Ex-Communicado”, Slater) that pointed out that the ZS7 was a one off, with next to no chance of being re-released.

If you look at the reviews on Head-Fi (link to reviews), you can see that the ZS7 was ahead of it's peers, in the <$50 tier.

With advancements to portable equipment (since the 2018 debut of the ZS7), specifically PEQ (in this case), it's easy to make a few alterations, to make the ZS7 once again relevant.

Hopefully one day KZ will double back and bring both the shell casing and the driver configure back again.


----------



## Nimweth

lgcubana said:


> [edit for poor choice of wording, “departed”]
> *KZ ZS7*
> 
> Still a banger.  I got the ZS7 early on, in my crossover from Headphones to IEMs.  So I didn't realize (at the time) that driver flex isn't the end of the world and relegated them to the box of regrets.  But had no intention to discard them as it was one of the O.G.'s (I think it was the departed “Ex-Communicado”, Slater) that pointed out that the ZS7 was a one off, with next to no chance of being re-released.
> ...


Love the ZS7 (and the BA10)!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Jan 6, 2022)

Ykaep said:


> Also, the Zex Pro I ordered a month ago arrived few days ago. Sadly one of the sides doesnt work  so I asked for a refund and got my money back.


How'd you show them it wasn't working?

They always tell me to send a video. So I put up a YouTube video (TinHiFi T2). Oops, they can't watch them in China. So I emailed them the video (LZ A6 Mini), oops videos are too big to be e-mailed. What?

I never figured out what to do next. Money lost.


----------



## nraymond

LaughMoreDaily said:


> They always tell me to send a video. So I put up a YouTube video (TinHiFi T2). Oops, they can't watch them in China. So I emailed them the video (LZ A6 Mini), oops videos are too big to be e-mailed. What?
> 
> I never figured out what to do next. Money lost.


Next time that happens, use something like Dropbox or Google Files to host the video them send them a share/download link.


----------



## Ykaep

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How'd you show them it wasn't working?
> 
> They always tell me to send a video. So I put up a YouTube video (TinHiFi T2). Oops, they can't watch them in China. So I emailed them the video (LZ A6 Mini), oops videos are too big to be e-mailed. What?
> 
> I never figured out what to do next. Money lost.


I got my first request declined without any response or reason so I requested another refund for a second time and pointed in the images the solder points and told them to give me a reason if they gonna decline it again or I would open a dispute on PayPal, shortly after I had my money refunded. 
This was on Shopee, that so far has been a mess in terms of support but hey they got juicy coupons..

About your issue, you can use something like WeTransfer or similar services to send emails with bigger files attached.
That or use another video hoster that isnt youtube and send them the link.

Hope this helps.


----------



## r31ya (Jan 6, 2022)

lgcubana said:


> [edit for poor choice of wording, “departed”]
> *KZ ZS7*
> 
> Still a banger.  I got the ZS7 early on, in my crossover from Headphones to IEMs.  So I didn't realize (at the time) that driver flex isn't the end of the world and relegated them to the box of regrets.  But had no intention to discard them as it was one of the O.G.'s (I think it was the departed “Ex-Communicado”, Slater) that pointed out that the ZS7 was a one off, with next to no chance of being re-released.
> ...


KZ moving from ZS6 to ZS7 is a major improvement.
From the eargrating banshee of ZS6 to the smoother airier ZS7.

Not sure why its overshadowed by its younger siblings, ZS 10 Pro.
Because sound sig wise, i prefer ZS7 over ZS10 Pro. (ZS10 Pro is tighter but ZS7 is airier)
Shell wise however, ZS10 Pro all the way. (due to helmet usage, ZS7 as its pressed to the ear, is sharp to use)


----------



## tgx78

What an impressive set of IEM from CCA! After some minor EQing, CRA is equally enjoyable as the Traillii.


----------



## unifutomaki

The CRA is excellent. My new on-the-go, everyday-carry wired beater of choice.


----------



## Tzennn

unifutomaki said:


> The CRA is excellent. My new on-the-go, everyday-carry wired beater of choice.


CRA is bad CRA is bad ... My wallet is in danger ...  I can't let myself buy another set when i just ordered one. i'm waiting for some anti hype comment ...
Btw i remember buying Og VK4 and give it away because of resolution is quite bad compare to hybrid from KZ (KZ zsn prox). How CRA sounds like compare to VK4 ?


----------



## unifutomaki

Tzennn said:


> CRA is bad CRA is bad ... My wallet is in danger ...  I can't let myself buy another set when i just ordered one. i'm waiting for some anti hype comment ...
> Btw i remember buying Og VK4 and give it away because of resolution is quite bad compare to hybrid from KZ (KZ zsn prox). How CRA sounds like compare to VK4 ?


I haven’t heard the VK4, but in terms of perceived details the CRA is certainly ahead of the ZEX and on par with the ZAX, to my ears at least.


----------



## blorg

Tzennn said:


> CRA is bad CRA is bad ... My wallet is in danger ...  I can't let myself buy another set when i just ordered one. i'm waiting for some anti hype comment ...
> Btw i remember buying Og VK4 and give it away because of resolution is quite bad compare to hybrid from KZ (KZ zsn prox). How CRA sounds like compare to VK4 ?


I haven't heard the VK4. CRA is a lot better than the ZSN Pro X though, which I do have. Much smoother, much more natural sounding, it has the detail and sparkle in the treble but it's not harsh and fatiguing like the ZSN Pro X is. I just got it, but right now I think it's the best KZ I've heard, I'd put it above the ZEX Pro (treble problems) and ZS10 Pro as well.


----------



## dimazbaik

Tzennn said:


> CRA is bad CRA is bad ... My wallet is in danger ...  I can't let myself buy another set when i just ordered one. i'm waiting for some anti hype comment ...
> Btw i remember buying Og VK4 and give it away because of resolution is quite bad compare to hybrid from KZ (KZ zsn prox). How CRA sounds like compare to VK4 ?


Buy it when it still v1, when another batch are produced you might have another CLONE ( like ZSR)


----------



## Tzennn

dimazbaik said:


> Buy it when it still v1, when another batch are produced you might have another CLONE ( like ZSR)


nah i buy the first batch, pretty sure about that but they kind of meh, tuning is good but tech isn't


----------



## ChrisOc

The Head-Fi Members' Poll is open for your votes.

It is time to cast your votes for what you believe are the best IEMs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-head-fi-members-poll-for-iems-2021.961457/


----------



## seanwee (Jan 7, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> CRA is bad CRA is bad ... My wallet is in danger ...  I can't let myself buy another set when i just ordered one.* i'm waiting for some anti hype comment* ...
> Btw i remember buying Og VK4 and give it away because of resolution is quite bad compare to hybrid from KZ (KZ zsn prox). How CRA sounds like compare to VK4 ?


Err, the upper treble is a bit elevated so vocals come out a bit dry for males and sharp for females? But can you fault it when it does everything else so well? and at $15 to boot?



unifutomaki said:


> I haven’t heard the VK4, but in terms of perceived details the CRA is certainly ahead of the ZEX and on par with the ZAX, to my ears at least.


Regular ZEX or ZEX PRO (CRN)?


----------



## unifutomaki

seanwee said:


> Err, the upper treble is a bit elevated so vocals come out a bit dry for males and sharp for females? But can you fault it when it does everything else so well? and at $15 to boot?
> 
> 
> Regular ZEX or ZEX PRO (CRN)?


Regular ZEX.


----------



## Tzennn

seanwee said:


> Err, the upper treble is a bit elevated so vocals come out a bit dry for males and sharp for females? But can you fault it when it does everything else so well? and at $15 to boot?


Well i mean i kinda want to hop on that hype train aswell because of these very positive comment but i listen to a lot of female vocals, 5k peak might be a deal breaker for me, also there is a lots of upcoming iem that seems really good to me like LEÁ. Want to buy it, but scared because don't have much money left ... Sad
Also price doesn't tied with sound quality to begin with so...


----------



## seanwee (Jan 7, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> Well i mean i kinda want to hop on that hype train aswell because of these very positive comment but i listen to a lot of female vocals, 5k peak might be a deal breaker for me, also there is a lots of upcoming iem that seems really good to me like LEÁ. Want to buy it, but scared because don't have much money left ... Sad
> Also price doesn't tied with sound quality to begin with so...


Do you listen loudly? At lower volumes the elevated treble of th CRA can become unnoticeable or even preferable. I just listen very loudly (~90db) when reviewing as it brings out the detail (or lack thereof), flaws and basically just puts the iem under a microscope.

About the hype, I don't consider it hype as much as well deserved praise for the iem.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, damn. Second CRA came in and look.





Great unit matching.




And this is TOTL class channel matching.


----------



## Tzennn

seanwee said:


> Do you listen loudly? At lower volumes the elevated treble of th CRA can become unnoticeable or even preferable. I just listen very loudly (~90db) when reviewing as it brings out the detail (or lack thereof), flaws and basically just puts the iem under a microscope.


I think i'm low volume listener. More like i hesitate because i miss some harman tuned iem. I'll wait until rikudou goku drop his review then i might buy it. Thanks tho


----------



## nicksson

My ZEX Pro is came today and I am using it for 5 hours by now. Feels confortable for me, despite the stock cable - I don't like it. 
At first, I disliked the soundstage and felt that the IEM is not airy, have no resolution, or details. My set have no peak at 8 khz, or I can't notice it. After EQ-ing the upper freqs (based on the graph of Crinnacle, to compensate the depressions) this IEM became somehow very _enjoyable_, energetic, euphonic, airy and... with much better resolution and larger soundstage than at first use. It seems that KZ had again nailed a very good item for the price.


----------



## seanwee

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, damn. Second CRA came in and look.
> 
> 
> Great unit matching.
> ...


Well i mean its one driver vs 6? 8? 10?? How many drivers are we putting into iems nowadays?

Unit to unit tolerance is great tho


----------



## Tzennn

seanwee said:


> Well i mean its one driver vs 6? 8? 10?? How many drivers are we putting into iems nowadays?
> 
> Unit to unit tolerance is great tho


Not really even single DD that i bought from moondrop (SSR and Spaceship) both have some QC issue (imbalance channel). KZ already king of QC i think


----------



## Wgibson

Quick thoughts on 2k or 3k pinna peak? Too hard to search for...


----------



## Tzennn

Wgibson said:


> Quick thoughts on 2k or 3k pinna peak? Too hard to search for...


2k for neutral vocal 3k for female vocal emphasis. Just my thought tho


----------



## seanwee

Wgibson said:


> Quick thoughts on 2k or 3k pinna peak? Too hard to search for...





Tzennn said:


> 2k for neutral vocal 3k for female vocal emphasis. Just my thought tho


Having one broad sweeping statement doesn't really work because the rest of the FR curve also matters. That and how said pinna gain is executed also matters.

For instance, The ZAX and Aria can both be said to have a 3khz pinna peak sound way different due to how the peak is done and how high they are relative to the rest of the FR curve.






Doesn't help that different people will have different perceptions and interpretations of how natural sounds like. People used to the more forward vocals of the ZAX may think that the Aria has recessed vocals for example.


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 7, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Having one broad sweeping statement doesn't really work because the rest of the FR curve also matters. That and how said pinna gain is executed also matters.
> 
> For instance, The ZAX and Aria can both be said to have a 3khz pinna peak sound way different due to how the peak is done and how high they are relative to the rest of the FR curve.
> 
> ...


And people who love Harman like me will think ZAX slightly foward, think of CRN a little bit lean, think of KZ triple peek kinda round - mic like, think of Harman as the rule of all iem since you miss that 3k a lot. Atleast i do tho


----------



## RikudouGoku

Last 3 hours or so. 




Oh and FYI, "500 mesh" is a cheaper alternative to the Tanchjim filters.



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002875037663.html


Awaiting my last mod material package before I reveal my thoughts.


----------



## kadinh

RikudouGoku said:


> Last 3 hours or so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!!!

I had no idea all of this testing you were doing! Thanks for all your work.


----------



## SartWaiting (Jan 7, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Last 3 hours or so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you split it into several screenshots of 3-4 graphs? As such, the result is cool, but hard to read.
It's big work👍👏

Upd: I see like nothing can handle the 8k peak. 🤣 8k is highlander?


----------



## RikudouGoku

SartWaiting said:


> Can you split it into several screenshots of 3-4 graphs? As such, the result is cool, but hard to read.
> It's big work👍👏
> 
> Upd: I see like nothing can handle the 8k peak. 🤣 8k is highlander?


The graphs are available here:
https://rg.squig.link/?share=RikudouGoku_Target,CCA_CRA


8k is coupler peak.


----------



## jagujetas72

Finally got around to posting this review, and yeah, I struggled to put more than a hundred hours worth into these. Musicians might have more luck.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-x-crinacle-crn-zex-pro.25580/review/27646/


----------



## tgx78 (Jan 8, 2022)

CRA + Solar = 💥


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Speaking of audiophile stuff ... I just switched from Spotify to Qobuz over the holiday break after getting tired of waiting for Spotify's hi-def/res/whatever to show up. In the interest of a complete budget audio chain for KZ lovers, I recommend that you consider a Qobuz subscription to go along with an inexpensive dongle DAC and your mobile phone. I'm using an old Android with BTR3k in tethered mode and it sounds nearly the same as E1DA from my laptop.
> 
> First of all - I gotta say  this is nothing like Tidal, which I didn't really get along with. It was marginally better than Spotify to my ears and I had to really listen for differences on the MQA tracks.  On Qobuz I haven't had a single recording playback at less than cd quality (16bit/44kHz, aka redbook audio), and quite a bit of material has been streaming at 96 kHz sample rate or higher. At least to my ears there is a significant step up in sound quality compared to Spotify's wifi streaming or Tidal in my opinion when hooked into a good DAC. Straight out of my phone is clean and still has good dynamics, but with less texture, loss of microdetail, and reduced imaging and sound stage. Bluetooth SBC is the best my phone supports and it's still better sounding than the onboard DAC and 3.5mm port.
> 
> ...


I thought to finally respond about the "audiophile" files.
I was personally quite shocked that in blind tests, it is nearly impossible to distinguish 256 from 320, let alone 320 from 16/44, 24/96, etc. The "level/loudness matching" is a key.
If you can ask someone to convert your favourite track to different mp3s and then to put them level-matched in a random order in a .flac container - it provides a good unbiased assesment for being able to "hear the difference".

Otherwise, "the loudness war" of high-res is the main game there, including that really sad snake oil of MQA 😠

By the same token, I was quite surprised to realize that the Apple dongle at slightly elevated levels feels as truly top "audiophile" class (with most 16-32 Ohm IEMs) , and it is for mere $8. Apple pun on " hifi".

Understandably, those "hearing" difference in cables and 24/96 vs. mp3 reject the very notions of these possibilities as a blasphemy...
Then there are the "unbiased reviewers" with the notions of mid-fi, totls, etc...
Well, a hobby is a hobby


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> I thought to finally respond about the "audiophile" files.
> I was personally quite shocked that in blind tests, it is nearly impossible to distinguish 256 from 320, let alone 320 from 16/44, 24/96, etc. The "level/loudness matching" is a key.
> If you can ask someone to convert your favourite track to different mp3s and then to put them level-matched in a random order in a .flac container - it provides a good unbiased assesment for being able to "hear the difference".
> 
> ...



A) You need to compare the same track or it's a pointless exercise. 

B) you're a fan of dark / warm tunings with an emphasis in the mids, if I'm not mistaken. Much of the differences you'll hear in 16/44 over 320 is in the treble range, and things like soundstage, imaging, and harmonics are all due to enhanced treble extension. That's why the 3D buttons in DSP software and DAC's boost the treble. 

C) I personally can't hear any improvement on 24/96 over redbook audio's 16/44. But the sampling rate and line level volume are but two variables of the recording process. Garbage sampled at a high bitrate and boosted is still garbage. 

Loudness can mean quite a few different things. What's important are the dB range in dynamics. 16bit / 44 kHz audio spans a dynamic range that's better than human hearing. But that's just final playback. Sampling at higher rates and 24 bit gives studio engineers and producers more "headroom" to tweak individual tracks.  That's the only legitimate reason really to invoke a higher sampling rate. 

All this is why I never upgraded my btr3k to btr5, fwiw.  The 8 core, $2k+  dap players are the real snake oil IMO, but dozens of folks will be bristling at the mention of it. 

Cheers


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 8, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> A) You need to compare the same track or it's a pointless exercise.
> 
> B) you're a fan of dark / warm tunings with an emphasis in the mids, if I'm not mistaken. Much of the differences you'll hear in 16/44 over 320 is in the treble range, and things like soundstage, imaging, and harmonics are all due to enhanced treble extension. That's why the 3D buttons in DSP software and DAC's boost the treble.
> 
> ...


A) Absolutely! The same file with 6-8 different resolution versions in one .flac container. Actually, I was first kindly given such a file of "golden audiophile" classics by a very nice (and equally as opionated, in my limited opinion) contributor of the "science forum" here, @bigshot.
The golden audiophile classics felt so void of treble to me that I opted to use my own files - still 192 is about my boundary.

B) Totally opposite!! I was often ridiculed here for my penchant for "banshee" IEMs, such as KB10 (also known as CCA A10 (my "cable" guinea pig to learn all the differences and "nots") or Tripowin TP10 - just ask @RikudouGoku about it )
So KB10 I used exactly feeling totally empowered in revealing all minor treble differences...
Not to my ears, those differences. the same as with most of the cables...

To my ears though, there is quite a noticeable difference between BTR3K and BTR5.
My simple "conspiracy theory" is that AK47** are "low/mid" not the top range chips compared to AK 49***, then business is the business, hence the "engineering".
I love the utility of BTR3K, a really cute one, but its sound, as well as of Tempotec V1A, is so "plain" and uneventful to my limited ears. Good job, AK, and you are banned out of my universe!

P. S. My favourite IEMs of all time - KZ AS16 and KS ASX (wide nozzle) are far from being treble shy. AS16 were crafted for classical music, and quite amazing indeed for that.


----------



## seanwee

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> A) You need to compare the same track or it's a pointless exercise.
> 
> B) you're a fan of dark / warm tunings with an emphasis in the mids, if I'm not mistaken. Much of the differences you'll hear in 16/44 over 320 is in the treble range, and things like soundstage, imaging, and harmonics are all due to enhanced treble extension. That's why the 3D buttons in DSP software and DAC's boost the treble.
> 
> ...


I've tried numerous daps and even though they measure the same (perfectly flat across the FR as they should), there IS a very audible difference between daps. While I wouldn't say that going up the price range will ALWAYS give you an upgrade, it is way more consistent to expect an upgrade from buying a more expensive dap than say buying more expensive iems because iems can have vastly different tunings but daps generally get better at portraying dynamics, have wider/more holographic soundstage as you go up the price range. See my profile for a tier list of daps I have tried before.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> Totally opposite!! I was often ridiculed here for my penchant for "banshee" IEMs, such as KB10



ah - I stand corrected!  I've had that link in my sig to ask about treble peaks because it seems silly to me relative to live music to make such a fuss about it.  so i have another treble head friend here in headfi, cool. What do you think of the tri starsea? 

Regarding the FLAC containers - if you get familiar with Ogg Vorbis and rip different bit and sample rates from a high quality CD recording that's the best way to learn. Makes me nostalgic for my old Turtle Beach sound card. Now look at "streaming" software ... Most of those services are just http chunked downloads of the same kinds of files. 



PhonoPhi said:


> To my ears though, there is quite a noticeable difference between BTR3K and BTR5.
> My simple "conspiracy theory" is that AK47** are "low/mid" not the top range chips compared to AK 49***, then business is the business, hence the "engineering".
> I love the utility of BTR3K, a really cute one, but its sound, as well as of Tempotec V1A, is so "plain" and uneventful to my limited ears. Good job, AK, and you are banned out of my universe!



Conversely, there are a lot of folks here on headfi that refuse to use ESS Sabre DAC's, which is what's in the BTR5 on account of them being perceived as 
bright. The new 2021 model has the "pro" chip in it w/ MQA unwrapping or whatever.

In contrast the little BTR3K has dual AKMs and some have said it has a warmer profile than the Sabre chip of the BTR5. I would rather sample an Earmen or E1DA 9038 variant at this point to try ESS since they are so similar, but i would maintain that btr3k is one of the highest quality DAC/amps available for the price. 

My only other dac's are my desktop Behringer uphoria unit for work, which has a good DAC but substandard amp (for now. Im looking for a good amp to pair with it) and this PowerDAC v2.1.  PDV21 has a really solid bottom end on it and is an amazing piece of gear for its price point. I've ordered a 30 ohm impedance plug to lower the line level hiss on my chifi IEM, but at moderately loud volumes it's not really an issue. 

The clarity and instrument separation is incredible on this unit. For us tweakers, the HPToy app is great.  Heart Mirror is an example where the "loudness" function is a dry/wet slider that let's you adjust a target frequency.  I usually drop to 60 and set it to ~ 40% wet, which fixes all the issues on HM being clinical. On the BTR3k I need more out of the EQ for them to be enjoyable. 



PhonoPhi said:


> P. S. My favourite IEMs of all time - KZ AS16 and KS ASX (wide nozzle) are far from being treble shy. AS16 were crafted for classical music, and quite amazing indeed for that.



ASF/ASX/AST are dark out of the box, which we've beat to death already. Having said that you've convinced me a while ago that I should get a pair and hear for myself.

I was deciding between A16 and C12 when I got my first KZ pair after a brief disappointment with BL-03.  I don't think AS16 has anything on the top end that my C12's do not. Do they? Curiosity has had me second guessing all year. The C12 are still my favorites. They are so detailed and so accurate, and I've figured out how to tame the bottom end for most genres by now. I still love 'em, especially for jazz and classical.  But it's 45 min max before reaching for one of these other cheap hybrids. They set my tinnitus on edge.



seanwee said:


> daps generally get better at portraying dynamics, have wider/more holographic soundstage as you go up the price range. See my profile for a tier list of daps I have tried before.



Looking forward to testing a few more out this year. 

I grant you that great components and good design are going to sound better than the highest bitrates on cheap dongles. But it's the multi-processor  / quad redundant nonsense of FiiO's top model and others like it that drive me a bit batty. 2 large for a glorified iPod is way beyond my threshold for an acceptable cost/performance ratio. 

Since I'm in mucking around with the EQ so often, a perfect amp for me is the rather boring "wire with gain". The THX 789 models, iFi's iDSD rigs, and this new TK2 from Tri all appeal to me on that criteria. I totally get that good iem/amp pairings exist that don't need EQ, it's just not quite my thing. 

This new xDSD Gryphon from iFi looks good on paper and is retailing for about 600 or $700 which seems correct for a high-end device. The iDSD Diablo is also tempting. And who doesn't want a Cayin C9 with hybrid tube goodness? That might be my weak spot on the high end, but I've got other addictions to feed!


----------



## voicemaster (Jan 8, 2022)

So, just received my AptX adaptive usb bluetooth dongle from AE. Paired it up with my UTWS5 and it paired up really fast and the LED turn red means it is connected using AptX adaptive. Then I, out of curiosity, connected the AZ09 pro and lo and behold the LED turn solid red which mean it is connected using AptX adaptive instead of regular AptX. Is KZ not knowing that their qc3040 chip is AptX adaptive capable but not advertising it? I also tried my BT20s pro and BT30, both connected using regular AptX. I tried to connect the AZ09 pro again and it is still connected using AptX adaptive. This is really surprising and amazing at the same time.


----------



## TheVortex

voicemaster said:


> So, just received my AptX adaptive usb bluetooth dongle from AE. Paired it up with my UTWS5 and it paired up really fast and the LED turn red means it is connected using AptX adaptive. Then I, out of curiosity, connected the AZ09 pro and lo and behold the LED turn solid red which mean it is connected using AptX adaptive instead of regular AptX. Is KZ not knowing that their qc3040 chip is AptX adaptive capable but not advertising it? I also tried my BT20s pro and BT30, both connected using regular AptX. I tried to connect the AZ09 pro again and it is still connected using AptX adaptive. This is really surprising and amazing at the same time.



Sounds promising. You got a link for that adapter?


----------



## voicemaster

TheVortex said:


> Sounds promising. You got a link for that adapter?


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt3bUIk


----------



## TheVortex

voicemaster said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt3bUIk



Thanks very much and that's cheaper than I expected.


----------



## voicemaster

TheVortex said:


> Thanks very much and that's cheaper than I expected.


Somebody posted that link on Fiio UTWS5 forum and I bought 2 right away. You could only find them on Taobao which is not very "international" friendly. Thanks to the guy that posted the link to AliExpress store otherwise I was almost give up looking for this dongle.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 8, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ah - I stand corrected!  I've had that link in my sig to ask about treble peaks because it seems silly to me relative to live music to make such a fuss about it.  so i have another treble head friend here in headfi, cool. What do you think of the tri starsea?
> 
> Regarding the FLAC containers - if you get familiar with Ogg Vorbis and rip different bit and sample rates from a high quality CD recording that's the best way to learn. Makes me nostalgic for my old Turtle Beach sound card. Now look at "streaming" software ... Most of those services are just http chunked downloads of the same kinds of files.
> 
> ...


A lot of great points and questions!
My time is a bit limited now, so just a brief answer, sorry.

Two main reasons for my "trebleheadness" were classical music, commonly shy in treble, and my first ESS- based (!) DAP - Pioneer X30.
So I slowly learned that "cooking" of the DAC chip is very important. The same chip can sound very different.
For instance, UA2 is quite AK/analogue-like rendering of ESS. Here is a brief summary of my DAC journey.
I do feel that ESS fits trebleheadness quite well though in general  If not - there are more neutral Cirrus. "Velvet" AK sound is so not my cup of tea somehow.

For C12- the treble is lovely, it is the DD for me that is the main limitation, I may try to equalize around midbass and low mids based on your points.

AS16 have BA bass - gentle, only when needed, very much an acquired taste, but two good Knowles-like BAs as in BA10 are there, and the drivers overall are like a double string quartet: 2X (bass+mid+2treble), so the graph is quite treble-rich, and the sound of four TWFK-like drivers is there as well - not so much treble extension, but the presence region - works really well with older classical recordings to my limited taste.
ASX are another story (4 SWFK-like + 4 TWFK-like BAs) but I would not recommend ASX readily, at least at first approximation.

As for the Starsea - 9.5 Ohm made it definite "no" for me - it can be fun to have crazy source- (and then more of the cable-) dependence, but why. I have ~12 Ohm VG4 also with switches (and 12 is just one  value reported at 1 kHz, it can go even lower). VG4 somehow happened to be one of my strongest deep disappointments - not that it was something wrong with the sound per se  - just could not find it any special - neither Sonion bass, nor RAF treble, so then got my biased opinion strengthened that it is more rewarding to get top products of companies, like KZ, rather than some "mid range" that must sound less than top products.


----------



## seanwee

PhonoPhi said:


> Two main reasons for my "trebleheadness" were classical music, commonly shy in treble, and my first ESS- based (!) DAP - Pioneer X30.
> So I slowly learned that "cooking" of the DAC chip is very important. The same chip can sound very different.
> For instance, UA2 is quite AK/analogue-like rendering of ESS. Here is a brief summary of my DAC journey.
> I do feel that ESS fits trebleheadness quite well though in general  If not - there are more neutral Cirrus. "Velvet" AK sound is so not my cup of tea somehow.


While lower end AKMs have a "velvet" sound, I found that daps using the higher end 4497 and 4499 tend to sound analytical with the sole exception being the Cayin N8. Perhaps its an implementation choice since those chips are only found in higher end daps but that's the impression I've gotten so far. The odd one out would be the 4493 which seems to want to sound neutral-bright but its poor treble handling makes it sound unrefined, even in the N3 PRO which is a warm dap in general.


----------



## yaps66

New to this thread but thought I would just share my experience with the ZEX Pro.  Have about 50 hours on them and am loving it.  Been listening to Monty Alexander's Love You Madly: Live at Bubba's (DSD512) on repeat and am loving the sound I am hearing.  Have been A/B'g some of the tracks with my EM5, Timeless and Starlights and the ZEX Pro hold their own over the other iems/bud.  These will certainly go into my rotation.  After going through this thread, I should perhaps qualify that my ears are about 56 years old!!!


----------



## idunnowhyimhere (Jan 9, 2022)

voicemaster said:


> So, just received my AptX adaptive usb bluetooth dongle from AE. Paired it up with my UTWS5 and it paired up really fast and the LED turn red means it is connected using AptX adaptive. Then I, out of curiosity, connected the AZ09 pro and lo and behold the LED turn solid red which mean it is connected using AptX adaptive instead of regular AptX. Is KZ not knowing that their qc3040 chip is AptX adaptive capable but not advertising it? I also tried my BT20s pro and BT30, both connected using regular AptX. I tried to connect the AZ09 pro again and it is still connected using AptX adaptive. This is really surprising and amazing at the same time.


I have the az09 pro and it absolutely can be switched to aptx adaptive on my LG v60. I too was confused by the fact that they didn't advertise it. I've been using it over my fiio utws3 adapter.
Adaptive plus high performance mode and low latency mode makes the az09 pro a steal at that price. If only they would turn off properly when I put them away


----------



## voicemaster

idunnowhyimhere said:


> I have the az09 pro and it absolutely can be switched to aptx adaptive on my LG v60. I too was confused by the fact that they didn't advertise it. I've been using it over my fiio utws3 adapter.
> Adaptive plus high performance mode and low latency mode makes the az09 pro a steal at that price. If only they would turn off properly when I put them away


Mine always turn off properly everytimr I put them in the case and close the lid.


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 10, 2022)

Edit: Since i can't find qudelix 5k, i decide to buy az09 pro or bt20s pro. Can someone compare 2 of them, also suggesting 1 good dongle if possible. Thank in advance


----------



## unifutomaki

Tzennn said:


> Any suggest for a good budget dac? I want a good budget bluetooth dac/amp with no colouration (neutral sound). I already have sone options in mind:
> - Tempotec E44 + Kz az 09 pro
> - Jcally JM10 JM20 JM40 + KZ AZ 09 pro.
> - Fiio btr5 2021 - btr3k
> ...


Why would you need the Tempotec or Jcally if you were to go with the AZ09?


----------



## johnjazz

I came across some strange findings and was wondering if anyone else experienced the same. I purchased the ZEX Pro followed by the CRN two weeks later (just for the sake of the CRIN logo) and was surprised to find that they both sounded quite differently. I thought they are supposedly both the same🤔


----------



## Tzennn

unifutomaki said:


> Why would you need the Tempotec or Jcally if you were to go with the AZ09?


Well i might buy expensive mmcx iem so i want to have a proper dac to drive them. Az09 don't have mmcx option tho


----------



## baskingshark

johnjazz said:


> I came across some strange findings and was wondering if anyone else experienced the same. I purchased the ZEX Pro followed by the CRN two weeks later (just for the sake of the CRIN logo) and was surprised to find that they both sounded quite differently. I thought they are supposedly both the same🤔



Unit variation?


----------



## johnjazz

baskingshark said:


> Unit variation?


The variation is pretty pronounced! One sounded laid back while the other has better clarity and more distinct imaging.


----------



## 1clearhead

johnjazz said:


> The variation is pretty pronounced! One sounded laid back while the other has better clarity and more distinct imaging.


So, which one sounds laid back and which one has better clarity and distinct imaging?

Thanks in advance.

-Clear


----------



## seanwee

Tzennn said:


> Any suggest for a good budget dac? I want a good budget bluetooth dac/amp with no colouration (neutral sound). I already have sone options in mind:
> - Tempotec E44 + Kz az 09 pro
> - Jcally JM10 JM20 JM40 + KZ AZ 09 pro.
> - Fiio btr5 2021 - btr3k
> ...


I recently got the JCALLY JM20 and its decent. Details are pretty good but compared to my DX160 it notably loses in bass extension/rumble, very small difference in microdetails/dynamics as well as soundstage.

The best value for money usb c dac is supposedly the meizu hifi dac pro but I could't find anywhere selling it so i got the JM20


----------



## r31ya

Tzennn said:


> Any suggest for a good budget dac? I want a good budget bluetooth dac/amp with no colouration (neutral sound). I already have sone options in mind:
> - Tempotec E44 + Kz az 09 pro
> - Jcally JM10 JM20 JM40 + KZ AZ 09 pro.
> - Fiio btr5 2021 - btr3k
> ...


The concensus seems to be, if you could get Qudelix 5K, get Qudelix 5K. apparently it have slightly better hardware and its the one with build in hardware PEQ if i recall it right.

BTR5 is a good option too, i have used mine for what a year? Its super awesome sounding and convenient as i no longer have dac dangling on my phone.
Shanling UP5 seems to be a good alternative but for some reason its not as popular as Q5K or BTR5.

Haven't tried or research much on the recent wired dongle after getting BTR5. 
I am thinking on replacing my DragonFly red thats now doing its duty to power my HE400i 2020 with something more recent and balanced out like FIIO KA3 or Sonata S9 Pro or Xduoo Link Balanced.

AZ09 Pro and its friend is useful if you want to get rid of cable altogether but so far i'm pretty satiffied with BTR5 convenience so yeah.


----------



## johnjazz

1clearhead said:


> So, which one sounds laid back and which one has better clarity and distinct imaging?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> -Clear


The ZEX Pro sounds laid back.
Here's a pic. Can you spot any difference


----------



## moisespr123 (Jan 10, 2022)

Some impressions on some of the budget KZ models from the past year:


KZ DQ6 Unboxing and First Impressions
KZ ZEX Unboxing and Sound Impressions
KZ ZEX Pro Unboxing and initial sound impressions
EDIT: My bad, links fixed


----------



## redguardsoldier

moisespr123 said:


> Some impressions on some of the budget KZ models from the past year:
> 
> 
> KZ DQ6 Unboxing and First Impressions
> ...


Your links are "edit" links so they require credentials


----------



## unifutomaki

Tzennn said:


> 1 good dongle if possible


I’ll be _that guy_ and say: Apple dongle.


----------



## seanwee (Jan 10, 2022)

unifutomaki said:


> I’ll be _that guy_ and say: Apple dongle.


Solid baseline for sure. But I'd reccomend the JCALLY JM20 for its better build quality and clearer and more detailed sound for less than $20

Also for those in the EU where the Apple dongle is capped to 50%


----------



## NeonHD

Wooow!






I got such a huge discount on the ZEX Pro (aka CRN) due to being a Diamond member on Aliexpress! Regular sale price is around CAD $41.

I was planning on buying them anyways but now there's no reason I won't. Tuning is exactly what I wanted. Can't wait to hear it.


----------



## Tzennn

unifutomaki said:


> I’ll be _that guy_ and say: Apple dongle.


Well sound quality doesn't match build quality tho. I can't count how many of these fall apart after 1 WEEK HEAVY USE. I'M SORRY


seanwee said:


> Solid baseline for sure. But I'd reccomend the JCALLY JM20 for its better build quality and clearer and more detailed sound for less than $20
> 
> Also for those in the EU where the Apple dongle is capped to 50%


Actually consider both JM20 and JM10 but i'm lowkey interested in some balance/ more powerful dac. Don't know if more powerful = better sound or not


----------



## unifutomaki

Tzennn said:


> Don't know if more powerful = better sound or not


I don’t want to know what you’ve been doing with them Apple dongles XD /jk

Power doesn’t necessarily translate to better sound quality. More power will give more headroom for higher impedance gear, but also translate to higher battery drain (from the host device) and possibly more heat.


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 10, 2022)

unifutomaki said:


> I don’t want to know what you’ve been doing with them Apple dongles XD


Due to my CAREFULLY pull and push my dongle to charge my iphone, 2 hours charge, 3 hours use... Thank apple for removing 3.5 jack, so i can stop using your STIPID DEVICE.


unifutomaki said:


> Power doesn’t necessarily translate to better sound quality. More power will give more headroom for higher impedance gear, but also translate to higher battery drain (from the host device) and possibly more heat.


Thanks for clarify that


----------



## nraymond

Tzennn said:


> I can't count how many of these fall apart after 1 WEEK HEAVY USE. I'M SORRY


Really tempted to make a dongle joke here, but I will refrain.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Been pressed for time working on my ZEX Pro review. Mostly I just drink while listening to stuff like this. 



Scotch burns on its way down, seeping into the pains of one's soul, as a good single malt should. At first there's a hint of resistance, and then total acceptance. Small waves of heat, extinguished by the chills of forlorn experiences and all those beautiful mids out of these ZEX Pro. The macro detail, the micro detail, it's all there. So lush. Lush velvety blankets of sound. 

 

And then, keep sinking deeper and deeper with the most effortless vibrato in contemporary jazz - Sinne Eeg. I'm lost in the world she's painted. Rising and falling on the dynamics, even from  this lousy 480p recording, utterly captivated by that beautiful voice of hers. Just a perfect amount of decay from the voice amps from this performance, resonating into the theater. The band's well back in the mix where it belongs in a supporting role until the keys inject some life back into us before being crushed again by the next verse. 

It's dark out and I really want a cigarette. _the world is like an apple, _w_hirling silently in space. like the circles that you find - in the windmills of your mind. _Has your lover ever desperately held on to you but couldn't explain why they were lost for words? Windmills. 

* ice and pouring noises * 



Chet Baker up next, off a balanced SPC cable on the E1DA set to "Compressor vinyl like" preset, but tweaked with a pull back of that 10k trough in the PEQ. There's a very special sound on brass instruments when played _pianissimo - _you can hear the air escaping the instrument almost as loud as the instrument's tone, one of Chet's trademarks and very difficult to play as consistently as he did. Track two when he starts to sing on _you go to my head - _that quiet baritone voice is the same voice as his instrument and you realize the magic of Chet's music. It doesn't matter if he's singing or playing a horn - these are melodies coming from the same soul. 

See y'all next week. I'm boxing everything up for a while and happy to make these my daily drivers for awhile. Hopefully I avoid rehab.


----------



## moisespr123

redguardsoldier said:


> Your links are "edit" links so they require credentials



Oops, links fixed.


----------



## dharmasteve

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Been pressed for time working on my ZEX Pro review. Mostly I just drink while listening to stuff like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Appreciate your way with words and passing on your mood. We are complex beings and I tasted your scotch in my being. Sh%$e I wish I had some.


----------



## johnjazz

johnjazz said:


> The ZEX Pro sounds laid back.
> Here's a pic. Can you spot any difference


After some lengthy listening and comparison with some of my IEMs, I would categorized the ZEX Pro as having a sound signature closer to the Moondrop Kato while the CRN is to the 7Hz Timeless!


----------



## axhng

johnjazz said:


> I came across some strange findings and was wondering if anyone else experienced the same. I purchased the ZEX Pro followed by the CRN two weeks later (just for the sake of the CRIN logo) and was surprised to find that they both sounded quite differently. I thought they are supposedly both the same🤔







A friend of mine got the CRN after testing my ZEX Pro, and he thought it sounded more V-shaped than he recalled. We met up to compare, and I thought the CRN sounded like it had more bass and treble, and the ZEX Pro sounded more balanced. The song i tested it with that day, fleetwood mac's dreams, the cymbals in the intro sounded harsher and more tizzy to me compared to the ZEX Pro. No measuring rig or what, so it's just based on using tone generator and songs.
the CRN has a bit more treble in the graphs here too, though in the end, could just be unit variance unless (since these are still mass produced budget IEMs after all) there are more accounts and examples of people hearing the same thing, and i think the mid range still more of less sounded the same.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

nraymond said:


> Really tempted to make a dongle joke here, but I will refrain.


What do audiophiles call their genitals? Dongles.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

johnjazz said:


> I came across some strange findings and was wondering if anyone else experienced the same. I purchased the ZEX Pro followed by the CRN two weeks later (just for the sake of the CRIN logo) and was surprised to find that they both sounded quite differently. I thought they are supposedly both the same🤔


The CRN Zex Pro has a treble tweak to match Crinicles personality.


----------



## independent

seanwee said:


> Solid baseline for sure. But I'd reccomend the JCALLY JM20 for its better build quality and clearer and more detailed sound for less than $20
> 
> Also for those in the EU where the Apple dongle is capped to 50%


I got that one after exhaustive reading reviews on the USB-C dongle thread. JM20 was the only one on the list I could easily get apart from the Apple dongle. I got that one too.

I really liked it at first, still do. I loved it with iems without super amazing resolution. However, once I played it against my Sabaj DA3 (I owned the DA2 but it has a faulty impletation and died). The DA3 is a dual ESS DAC (dual only on balanced connection) with a KZ ASX is just an amazing combination. Wierdly the ASX sounds a bit strange and 'out of sorts' on the dongles. Nevertheless the dongles are not hifi. I mean they do an ok job. But if you want detailed representation they just don't quite make it. Unfortunately


----------



## seanwee

independent said:


> I got that one after exhaustive reading reviews on the USB-C dongle thread. JM20 was the only one on the list I could easily get apart from the Apple dongle. I got that one too.
> 
> I really liked it at first, still do. I loved it with iems without super amazing resolution. However, once I played it against my Sabaj DA3 (I owned the DA2 but it has a faulty impletation and died). The DA3 is a dual ESS DAC (dual only on balanced connection) with a KZ ASX is just an amazing combination. Wierdly the ASX sounds a bit strange and 'out of sorts' on the dongles. Nevertheless the dongles are not hifi. I mean they do an ok job. But if you want detailed representation they just don't quite make it. Unfortunately


Yeah "good enough" is the key word here. Nobody is really expecting a miracle out of these.


----------



## independent

seanwee said:


> Yeah "good enough" is the key word here. Nobody is really expecting a miracle out of these.


Yeah, was over optimistic and 'believed the hype'.


----------



## Aparker2005

My CRA haven't updated in tracking since they apparently arrived at the US on December 16th. Never had any take this long.


----------



## moisespr123

Aparker2005 said:


> My CRA haven't updated in tracking since they apparently arrived at the US on December 16th. Never had any take this long.


In my case, AliExpress mistakenly was saying that it arrived in the US while 17track said it departed. It took 15 days between that scan and the customs arrival scan, at which point it took just a few days for it to reach me.


----------



## nraymond

Aparker2005 said:


> My CRA haven't updated in tracking since they apparently arrived at the US on December 16th. Never had any take this long.


My 7Hz Timeless was ordered weeks before the 11.11 sale but I received it after I got the things I ordered on 11.11 because (from what I could tell) it was with US customs for about a month before it reached the US postal system for some unknown reason.


----------



## MacAttack7

nraymond said:


> My 7Hz Timeless was ordered weeks before the 11.11 sale but I received it after I got the things I ordered on 11.11 because (from what I could tell) it was with US customs for about a month before it reached the US postal system for some unknown reason.


My ZEX Pro apparently arrived in the US on Dec 11th. Tracking hasn't changed since. 
I orderered something else well after that date and received it long ago. Not sure what the deal is. 
I don't really want the ZEX Pro now anyways....doesn't sound all that special. It was an impulse purchase I guess. The hype train got me.


----------



## RikudouGoku (Jan 11, 2022)

Upcoming KZ




12mm DD + "electrostatic" (probably MST)

No info on price yet.


Edit: Some pics.











I assume it wont be dirt cheap since the build quality actually looks quite good (and it seems that KZ has been working on it for a long time).


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Here I was hoping for a fancy KZ ZAX with an additional MST driver. This is gonna be gold if it can match the ZAX in resolution.


----------



## seanwee

RikudouGoku said:


> Upcoming KZ
> 
> 
> 12mm DD + "electrostatic" (probably MST)
> ...


If the chome was just on the faceplate it would have looked good. But when the body of the iem is chrome as well it kinda looks like a toy. 

Maybe it looks better in person and these pictures just make them look worse.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 11, 2022)

ExTubeGamer said:


> Here I was hoping for a fancy KZ ZAX with an additional MST driver. This is gonna be gold if it can match the ZAX in resolution.


ZAX with a bass BA instead of DD would be really great!

Or at least, replacing ZAX DD with one from ZEX pro or CRA.

Alas, my current perception/theory is that KZ does not do perfect IEMs by choice.


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> Alas, my current perception/theory is that KZ does not do perfect IEMs by choice.


KZ seem to be very confident about this new ZES though. They are sending it out to a lot of reviewers (including me).

I will have mine within a month and graphed at least, was sent with UPS.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 11, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ seem to be very confident about this new ZES though. They are sending it out to a lot of reviewers (including me).
> 
> I will have mine within a month and graphed at least, was sent with UPS.


In my limited opinion, their "EST/MST" is a very feeble attempt, so good luck to KZ and the "unbiased" reviewers of their samples 

P. S. The only KZ I would now buy is some retuned all-BA.


----------



## saldsald

RikudouGoku said:


> Upcoming KZ
> 
> 
> 12mm DD + "electrostatic" (probably MST)
> ...


Their mid to top tier IEMs usually ship in black boxes with a metal name plate inside. Too bad this is likely another budget IEM from KZ.


----------



## seanwee

PhonoPhi said:


> In my limited opinion, their "EST/MST" is a very feeble attempt, so good luck to KZ and the "unbiased" reviewers of their samples
> 
> P. S. The only KZ I would now buy is some retuned all-BA.


Their new CCA CRA dynamic driver has more extension than their EST/MST driver lol. Just upgrade the CRA and make a CRA PRO with a BA dedicated to the mid-uppermids.


----------



## TheRealShinku

Hopefully that ZES has the treble of their previous sets. One ZEX Pro is enough ZEX Pro's


----------



## RikudouGoku

seanwee said:


> Their new CCA CRA dynamic driver has more extension than their EST/MST driver lol. Just upgrade the CRA and make a CRA PRO with a BA dedicated to the mid-uppermids.


No need to use BAs and introduce incoherency and poor timbre for that, that DD is already very capable.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Getting a DD and overdampen the treble is surely an easier more universal solution to IEMs.
Reproducing a rich spectrum of frequencies/tones using a single membrane is a bit akin of playing orchestral music on a single drum


----------



## seanwee

PhonoPhi said:


> Getting a DD and overdampen the treble is surely an easier more universal solution to IEMs.
> Reproducing a rich spectrum of frequencies/tones using a single membrane is a bit akin of playing orchestral music on a single drum


Kind of a misleading statement. High end Headphones also use a single membrane and can play at the very top level.


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> Getting a DD and overdampen the treble is surely an easier more universal solution to IEMs.
> Reproducing a rich spectrum of frequencies/tones using a single membrane is a bit akin of playing orchestral music on a single drum



to be fair, our ears are also single membrane design, and it can translate full spectrum of frequencies just fine


----------



## unifutomaki

seanwee said:


> Kind of a misleading statement. High end Headphones also use a single membrane and can play at the very top level.


Yep. Never mind the TOTL- my single DD final A4K has a more extended treble than my 16 driver ZAX


----------



## PhonoPhi

chinmie said:


> to be fair, our ears are also single membrane design, and it can translate full spectrum of frequencies just fine


Not that simple!
Just one of the first sources in the search: https://www.hearinglink.org/your-hearing/about-hearing/how-the-ear-works/
...the ‘hair cells’ in the cochlea are tuned to respond to different sounds based on their pitch or frequency of sounds. High-pitched sounds will stimulate ‘hair cells’ in the lower part of the cochlea and low-pitched sounds in the upper part of the cochlea."


seanwee said:


> Kind of a misleading statement. High end Headphones also use a single membrane and can play at the very top level.


People are just typically accustomed to DDs as the most available speaker designs everywhere. "Top levels" are very arbitrary, and single DDs are not the only design - planars, electrostats, etc. were designed for a reason.


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> Not that simple!
> Just one of the first sources in the search: https://www.hearinglink.org/your-hearing/about-hearing/how-the-ear-works/
> ...the ‘hair cells’ in the cochlea are tuned to respond to different sounds based on their pitch or frequency of sounds. High-pitched sounds will stimulate ‘hair cells’ in the lower part of the cochlea and low-pitched sounds in the upper part of the cochlea."
> 
> People are just typically accustomed to DDs as the most available speaker designs everywhere. "Top levels" are very arbitrary, and single DDs are not the only design - planars, electrostats, etc. were designed for a reason.



yup, not to mention that we also "hear" through vibrations of the body. 

but @seanwee and @unifutomaki also have a point, that single DD have no problem reproducing higher freqs..even on the subject of speed/decay which people often compare it to BAs, planars, estat, etc, on some instances it can achieve short decay like BAs (and vice versa)..for example, my Sony M9 sounds like it's using DD drivers rather than BAs. 

and from what i gather in this forum is that people have different views on what the ideal attack and decay for a headphone to be called "natural".. heck, my personal preference earphones would be typical BA-short decay bass and DD-bloomier treble. 

nowadays i rather not caring about what driver tech/config an earphone is using, it sounds good if it sounds good


----------



## voicemaster

PhonoPhi said:


> Getting a DD and overdampen the treble is surely an easier more universal solution to IEMs.
> Reproducing a rich spectrum of frequencies/tones using a single membrane is a bit akin of playing orchestral music on a single drum


Planar: Hold my beer...


----------



## PhonoPhi

Th


chinmie said:


> yup, not to mention that we also "hear" through vibrations of the body.
> 
> but @seanwee and @unifutomaki also have a point, that single DD have no problem reproducing higher freqs..even on the subject of speed/decay which people often compare it to BAs, planars, estat, etc, on some instances it can achieve short decay like BAs (and vice versa)..for example, my Sony M9 sounds like it's using DD drivers rather than BAs.
> 
> ...


The main limitation of a single membrane is not the spectral range, it can be broad indeed, but the coupling/interference when several frequencies are reproduced at once - there are physical limits, e.g. inevitable interference of different vibrational modes.


----------



## IEMbiker

PhonoPhi said:


> Th
> 
> The main limitation of a single membrane is not the spectral range, it can be broad indeed, but the coupling/interference when several frequencies are reproduced at once - there are physical limits, e.g. inevitable interference of different vibrational modes.







Sound guide to overcome limitation of single membrane in TOTL iem. Single membrane is the most extensively research speaker unit till now.  This is just the front portion, the back chamber also play important role for low and mid tuning.


----------



## 1clearhead (Jan 11, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> My ZEX Pro apparently arrived in the US on Dec 11th. Tracking hasn't changed since.
> I orderered something else well after that date and received it long ago. Not sure what the deal is.
> I don't really want the ZEX Pro now anyways....doesn't sound all that special. It was an impulse purchase I guess. The hype train got me.


I bought the ZEX PRO and the CCA CRA when they first came out here in China. But, I must say that the CRA are much better on a technical level while maintaining as much of the natural sounding coherency as possible. The ZEX PRO can be more mid-centric for those that want a neutral signature, but at the cost of sounding harsh or sibilant at times. That's why I personally choose the CRA over the ZEX PRO, IMHO.

-Clear


----------



## saldsald

chinmie said:


> yup, not to mention that we also "hear" through vibrations of the body.
> 
> but @seanwee and @unifutomaki also have a point, that single DD have no problem reproducing higher freqs..even on the subject of speed/decay which people often compare it to BAs, planars, estat, etc, on some instances it can achieve short decay like BAs (and vice versa)..for example, my Sony M9 sounds like it's using DD drivers rather than BAs.


IMO there is little to no advancement in BA while there is a quantum leap in DD technology these two years epcecially for DDs not used by KZ - the DDs they have been using are still too budget friendly and don't show the true capability of DDs. Moreover I have been told multiple times by the IEM makers the shells are part of the tuning process and KZ just keep using all these resin shells, drilling holes here and there. 


chinmie said:


> and from what i gather in this forum is that people have different views on what the ideal attack and decay for a headphone to be called "natural".. heck, my personal preference earphones would be typical BA-short decay bass and DD-bloomier treble.
> 
> nowadays i rather not caring about what driver tech/config an earphone is using, it sounds good if it sounds good


----------



## lushmelody

Is fiber PU/membrane an underrated DD? I'm comparing Nicehck DB1 against EDX Pro and its beating KZ effortlessly. Speed, tonality, timbre. It also beats NF Audio NA2 and BL-03 in speed.  

The only thing Nicehck lacks is subbass - which I did a fix with PEQ. Still, a great treble extension and sibilance control for just the right price. I'm kinda speechless and thinking that really there is no need to invest more than $20 in a single DD. I want a CRA to compare because I think its the only competition against the DB1 right now. Budget is indeed good this year


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEMbiker said:


> Sound guide to overcome limitation of single membrane in TOTL iem. Single membrane is the most extensively research speaker unit till now.  This is just the front portion, the back chamber also play important role for low and mid tuning.


That can be great for tuning and spectral shaping, but it does not avoid a problem that a membrane can't perfectly vibrate at many frequencies at once over whooping ten octaves (!!) 
The concept of "totl"s totally alludes, if not alienates, me. Are "totls" certified, or it is just totally based on company claims (and/or price tag alone) or those opinions of "totally unbiased" reviewers?

As for the most "used/researched" argument attempts - take a gasoline engine - surely one of the most technically perfected devices, and still mostly in use. Yet inferior to a simple electric motor, connected to a battery (and a supercapacitor), and the design of electric motors did not change much over more than a century.

IEMs actually started with BAs that were designed for hearing aids.
BAs did evolve to a reasonable extent - side firing, Sony designs, etc, but most importantly BAs hold a simple advantage of a very compact driver, so many of them can be used, like a little orchestra or at least a string quartet right in your ears


----------



## nraymond

PhonoPhi said:


> That can be great for tuning and spectral shaping, but it does not avoid a problem that a membrane can't perfectly vibrate at many frequencies at once over whooping ten octaves (!!)
> The concept of "totl"s totally alludes, if not alienates, me. Are "totls" certified, or it is just totally based on company claims (and/or price tag alone) or those opinions of "totally unbiased" reviewers?
> 
> As for the most "used/researched" argument attempts - take a gasoline engine - surely one of the most technically perfected devices, and still mostly in use. Yet inferior to a simple electric motor, connected to a battery (and a supercapacitor), and the design of electric motors did not change much over more than a century.
> ...


For an IEM, both present different design challenges. In a dynamic driver, all parts of the diaphragm do not move simultaneously, which can can cause physical distortion and loss of resolution, especially at high volume (which is why we see marketing emphasis on membrane materials and magnet strength). For multi-BA designs, there are crossover and time-alignment challenges which create other problems with the sound that those designs try to overcome.


----------



## IEMbiker

PhonoPhi said:


> That can be great for tuning and spectral shaping, but it does not avoid a problem that a membrane can't perfectly vibrate at many frequencies at once over whooping ten octaves (!!)
> The concept of "totl"s totally alludes, if not alienates, me. Are "totls" certified, or it is just totally based on company claims (and/or price tag alone) or those opinions of "totally unbiased" reviewers?
> 
> As for the most "used/researched" argument attempts - take a gasoline engine - surely one of the most technically perfected devices, and still mostly in use. Yet inferior to a simple electric motor, connected to a battery (and a supercapacitor), and the design of electric motors did not change much over more than a century.
> ...


clearly you totally overlook the chamber design that can help diaphragm move better and more balance. BA also struggle to vibrate perfectly over whooping ten octave, or else there will be just one BA for all frequency range with perfect natural bass. All speaker have weakness and strong point. That is why so many hybrid exist.
I like any type of speaker or transducer as long it give me good sound. 

If EV is just simple motor and super capacitor, then there will be no hundred of thousand recall on Txxla today. EV is believe to be more environmental friendly, but to me how the battery was produced and the disposed of battery after the usable lifetime post a big question in my mind.


----------



## PhonoPhi

IEMbiker said:


> clearly you totally overlook the chamber design that can help diaphragm move better and more balance. BA also struggle to vibrate perfectly over whooping ten octave, or else there will be just one BA for all frequency range with perfect natural bass. All speaker have weakness and strong point. That is why so many hybrid exist.
> I like any type of speaker or transducer as long it give me good sound.
> 
> If EV is just simple motor and super capacitor, then there will be no hundred of thousand recall on Txxla today. EV is believe to be more environmental friendly, but to me how the battery was produced and the disposed of battery after the usable lifetime post a big question in my mind.


The chamber design can't change the physics of the frequency cross-couplings of a single membrane unless you have specific examples that I will be happy to know about. Again, orchestral music is not performed on a single drum 

BAs are definitely even more limited in the range compared to DDs due to their smaller membrane surface (the origin in hearing devices emphasized mids and clarity). But they are more agile and can be used in numbers.
Related to KZ, this discussion actually started with ZEX pro. The tuning of  ZEX pro, with those far from perfect drivers by crossovers was really impressive to me. In between, AS16, ASX, AST and ZAX - the parts are there to make a great all-BA IEM, if KZ chose to (my conspiracy theory that they won't...)

Tesla is not the only EV vehicle, No point to discuss Musk... Batteries are a solvable problem. Take Prius, a great car from 1990-ies. Just in electronic devices, a huge progress over the last 5 years.


----------



## astermk

I've had the chance to listen to the ZEX Pro/CRN and compare them to the ZAX I've loved for a year and a half. Predictably, the ZAX are more resolving and more precise in their imaging. The difference isn't massive, but it can be heard. The ZAX cost double the price and have 5 extra drivers, so I can't say I didn't get what I expected.

But boy, does Crinacle annihilate KZ's house sound in tuning know-how. I still think the ZEX Pro's treble is a little funky (not unbearably peaky like others describe, just uneven and maybe lacking a bit of air), but everything below 8khz is absolutely magnificent. The bass boost is audible but tasteful and leaves zero mud in the mids, the mids are beautiful and full-bodied, and the upper mids shout only when they're intended to (like with electric guitars). I don't hate the treble, it's far from bad, just imperfect.

If you copy and pasted this tuning, with minor fixes in the treble, in an IEM priced around $100 let's say (like KZ's 12BA AST), you might have on your hands the single most disruptive product in all of Chi-Fi. I hope the right people are reading these threads because this tuning approach has to be more than a one-off.


----------



## purplesun

Question about the triple-magnet dynamic driver used in KZ NRA.
Are they also being used in other KZ, or sister companies', models?
TIA.


----------



## baskingshark

Hot on the heels of cooperating with Crinacle, KZ now has a collab with BGGAR to retune the DQ6.

You gotta say, the penny has finally dropped for the KZ bosses; instead of releasing weekly V shaped sidegrades spam releases and hoping something finally sticks on the wall, they go for renowned tuners.


----------



## astermk

I also think the Crinacle + palatable air EQ preset is overall the best for the CRN, they fix the treble completely for me, and if I'm not doing some massive nitpicking, they make them tonally basically perfect for me. 

Does anybody know of a similar sounding Wavelet preset for the ZAX or the CCA CA16 so I can compare?


----------



## bill0717 (Jan 13, 2022)

I just heard of this that might be of interest to this thread...


----------



## bill0717

Oops already posted 😅


----------



## ericf

It would be interesting to see a graph of this collaboration. I would hope it's not a copy of the Mele but rather a well tuned phone with proper amounts of bass, clear mids, less pronounced upper mids/lower treble and extended treble without sibilance. I like the original DQ6 but I would prefer a wider, longer nozzle and a slightly larger shell. I have trouble getting these to say in my ears.


----------



## RikudouGoku

ericf said:


> It would be interesting to see a graph of this collaboration. I would hope it's not a copy of the Mele but rather a well tuned phone with proper amounts of bass, clear mids, less pronounced upper mids/lower treble and extended treble without sibilance. I like the original DQ6 but I would prefer a wider, longer nozzle and a slightly larger shell. I have trouble getting these to say in my ears.





https://hbb.squig.link/?share=Bad_Guy_Target,KZ_DQ6,KZ_DQ6_R_Xf


----------



## PhonoPhi

RikudouGoku said:


> https://hbb.squig.link/?share=Bad_Guy_Target,KZ_DQ6,KZ_DQ6_R_Xf


In other words, grossly re-tarded  DQ6... meh or even boo


----------



## RikudouGoku

oh, according to UPS ETA, my ZES (and CA10) should be here tomorrow. Wonder if it can compete with the CRA, the slayer of 300 usd iems lol.


----------



## voicemaster

Oh now that something interesting. I love hbb tuning on Mele.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Been out of the loop since the kz zs5/zs6 days.  With any luck my recently ordered Kz CRN/ZEX Pro should be here today.  Excited to see how far KZ's come in these 4-5 years.


----------



## 1clearhead

bill0717 said:


> I just heard of this that might be of interest to this thread...


If the 6mm micro-drivers can be tuned perfectly with the 10mm, then it should make for an interesting listening experience, IMHO. Now, the question then should be, can it compete with the CRA's single dynamic driver made at only 3.8 microns thin, which is unreal at only $15 US dollars?

No matter, I'll probably be getting the DQ6S, too...! 

-Clear


----------



## dimazbaik

Maybe would wait other first before pull the trigger


----------



## Robius

PhonoPhi said:


> In other words, grossly re-tarded  DQ6... meh or even boo


Yeah, if you have a hearing problem that's a bad tuning.


----------



## profusion

I dont see what is the difference from dq6 which are same 3dd from dq6s?


----------



## RikudouGoku

bloated bass, shouty vocals, peaky treble AND dark at the same time, yeah its trash.






Good, but it aint touching the CRA. 






No clue how much it costs, the build quality looks really good though.....


CRA review is almost done.


----------



## profusion

baskingshark said:


> Hot on the heels of cooperating with Crinacle, KZ now has a collab with BGGAR to retune the DQ6.
> 
> You gotta say, the penny has finally dropped for the KZ bosses; instead of releasing weekly V shaped sidegrades spam releases and hoping something finally sticks on the wall, they go for renowned tuners.


 My bad but what is HBB or BGGAR 😅


----------



## evasb

profusion said:


> My bad but what is HBB or BGGAR 😅


Hawaiian Bad Boy (HBB) / Bad Guy Good Audio Reviews (BGGAR - The YT channel)


----------



## Ceeluh7

1clearhead said:


> If the 6mm micro-drivers can be tuned perfectly with the 10mm, then it should make for an interesting listening experience, IMHO. Now, the question then should be, can it compete with the CRA's single dynamic driver made at only 3.8 microns thin, which is unreal at only $15 US dollars?
> 
> No matter, I'll probably be getting the DQ6S, too...!
> 
> -Clear


I will certainly blind buy this set. I'd buy it just for the novelty of it. However it should be tuned farely well if the HBB sound sig is one you enjoy


----------



## RikudouGoku

CCA CRA review finally done!
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-cra.25640/reviews#review-27702

Rank: S

Demoted:
GS Audio GD3A from S to S- (5/5 to 4.5/5
Fiio FD5 from 4/5 to 3/5


GGWP


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

PhonoPhi said:


> In other words, grossly re-tarded  DQ6... meh or even boo


That's just basshead version of DQ6. Not that many folks would mind but it's so unlike KZ.


----------



## r31ya

dimazbaik said:


> Maybe would wait other first before pull the trigger


If its like mele, much bass, great mids, polite treble. 
Which is the default tuning from bggar. 

Again, if you are treble head. This might not be for you


----------



## dimazbaik

r31ya said:


> If its like mele, much bass, great mids, polite treble.
> Which is the default tuning from bggar.
> 
> Again, if you are treble head. This might not be for you


The cost enough to buy another cra +mod kit😂


----------



## Tzennn

RikudouGoku said:


> CCA CRA review finally done!
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cca-cra.25640/reviews#review-27702
> 
> Rank: S
> ...


Ordered. Can you make a tutorial how to mod CRA ?


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tzennn said:


> Ordered. Can you make a tutorial how to mod CRA ?


I already explained it in the review though.


----------



## Tzennn

RikudouGoku said:


> I already explained it in the review though.


Oh sorry didn't see that


----------



## profusion (Jan 15, 2022)

How the hyped CRA is compared to DQ6?

edit I saw the review of @RikudouGoku


----------



## idunnowhyimhere

Tzennn said:


> Oh sorry didn't see that


I looked over the review twice and still haven't seen how to mod it.
I definitely see what you should buy though


----------



## RikudouGoku

idunnowhyimhere said:


> I looked over the review twice and still haven't seen how to mod it.
> I definitely see what you should buy though


----------



## profusion

So @RikudouGoku it seems that cra is better than the 3dd king dq6!? Unbelievable


----------



## RikudouGoku

profusion said:


> So @RikudouGoku it seems that cra is better than the 3dd king dq6!? Unbelievable


its crazy


----------



## Musicoflife

RikudouGoku said:


> I already explained it in the review though.


Could you get the same improvement without mod just using PEQ? The tweaking needed seems slight.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Jan 15, 2022)

arbiter76 said:


> you're probably right but I also think cotton delivers more tame treble where foam would absorb more.



I dusted off my lowly EDX today and plugged them to the Cayin N3Pro running in Triode (no EQ) and I thought "splashy highs".   So rolled up a couple of plugs of Speaker dampening material that I had on hand (not cotton but not foam) and shoved it into the ear tips of the EDX.  Splashy highs cured.  Went for a long dog walk with them, it was pretty revelatory....sounded pretty darn good!

Sure the mids are a bit uneven, some instruments come across more clearly (more forward)  then others, and I would like a touch more sub bass.

Lucky synergy with the N3Pro in Triode mode?

Anything sounds pretty decent if you devote yourself to careful undistracted listening?

Or are they pretty decent cans with this simple mod....regardless of the low cost?



,


----------



## RikudouGoku

Musicoflife said:


> Could you get the same improvement without mod just using PEQ? The tweaking needed seems slight.


havent tried PEQ too much but yes you should be able to use PEQ to tune it more to your liking.


----------



## ChristianM

I sold my ZSX and bought DQ6 with KZ gold silver copper cable as many people complain about DQ6's piercing treble. Now I kind of regret selling my ZSX with KZ gold/silver cable. DQ6 have so much sub and mid bass even with stock silver cable and flimsy silicon tips and more bass with 8 core cable. I have to use EQ in many songs which is very annoying. bass and treble are not as good as ZSX, mids are similar. I listened DQ6 for around 7-8 hours with my Fiio M3K. Thinking of selling DQ6 and KZ cable and get something else.


----------



## sutosuto

profusion said:


> How the hyped CRA is compared to DQ6?


More refined.


----------



## profusion

ChristianM said:


> I sold my ZSX and bought DQ6 with KZ gold silver copper cable as many people complain about DQ6's piercing treble. Now I kind of regret selling my ZSX with KZ gold/silver cable. DQ6 have so much sub and mid bass even with stock silver cable and flimsy silicon tips and more bass with 8 core cable. I have to use EQ in many songs which is very annoying. bass and treble are not as good as ZSX, mids are similar. I listened DQ6 for around 7-8 hours with my Fiio M3K. Thinking of selling DQ6 and KZ cable and get something else.


DQ6 need 100h burn, mine after that is a WOW 🤩


----------



## DynamicEars

Hello boys! its an old friend here

It's been a while, so apparently @RikudouGoku recent review about CCA CRA is lurking me out of cave. Good job, really appreciate you've done to this community bro and how well you measured all these stuffs. I believe you have similar standard with mine and Crin's so i don't have to measure again. 
So looks like ZEX Pro aka Crin's CRN is great on tuning but missing 1 important little thing, its not tuning method but its a damper thing. They need to put sponge to absorb out of control high frequencies bouncing in the nozzle, like the mod we did, following Sony's IEMs. its a little simple (but have great effect) trick.
They need to tune 2khz-8khz (or mostly at 4khz) higher, but then damped to be lower. not just tuning right on target.

HBB's DQ6s also tuned right on target without damper. So sorry but I'm skeptic, they will be too dark for my liking.

original DQ6 with sponge/foam mod is better due more detail but well dampened so the final FR is closer to our target but I see the CRA is better because of the better driver I guess. I take it that CRA's thin diaphragm driver better than XUN driver.

But really KZ (and CCA) is really made bold better move here. Im done buying stuff and sit down with my Z1R (not perfect IEM to me, but the closest one to my dream) but the CRA (and @RikudouGoku 's review) made me wanna jump in one more time.. one more last time (really wish for real LAST)


and btw for AZ09 Pro user (sorry I forgot who owns this, one of them is @voicemaster ) do they have "high performance mode" by tapping 3 times on right button?

because they've released AZ10 now with high performance mode to reduce delay, but the color scheme is so striking and I don't like them very much :



Thanks in advance!


----------



## profusion

@RikudouGoku did you burn your cra?


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Hello boys! its an old friend here
> 
> It's been a while, so apparently @RikudouGoku recent review about CCA CRA is lurking me out of cave. Good job, really appreciate you've done to this community bro and how well you measured all these stuffs. I believe you have similar standard with mine and Crin's so i don't have to measure again.
> So looks like ZEX Pro aka Crin's CRN is great on tuning but missing 1 important little thing, its not tuning method but its a damper thing. They need to put sponge to absorb out of control high frequencies bouncing in the nozzle, like the mod we did, following Sony's IEMs. its a little simple (but have great effect) trick.
> ...


Yes the AZ09 pro has high performance and also full power mode.


----------



## DynamicEars

voicemaster said:


> Yes the AZ09 pro has high performance and also full power mode.



Great! Thanks for your prompt reply man. So basically the AZ10 is AZ09 Pro with extra green paint on the body. Wanna go with sleeker looks of AZ09 Pro absolutely.
Thank you!


----------



## evasb (Jan 16, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> So basically the AZ10 is AZ09 Pro with extra green paint on the body.


No, AZ10 doesn't use the Qualcomm (no aptX) and only uses AAC/SBC (no LDAC)

AZ10 is more like an iteration of AZ09 than a successor of AZ09 Pro. Can be better than AZ09 tough.


----------



## ChristianM (Jan 16, 2022)

profusion said:


> DQ6 need 100h burn, mine after that is a WOW 🤩


100 hours....I think I give DQ6 another try, I was thinking about selling it.
You're using stock cable?


----------



## RikudouGoku

DynamicEars said:


> Hello boys! its an old friend here
> 
> It's been a while, so apparently @RikudouGoku recent review about CCA CRA is lurking me out of cave. Good job, really appreciate you've done to this community bro and how well you measured all these stuffs. I believe you have similar standard with mine and Crin's so i don't have to measure again.
> So looks like ZEX Pro aka Crin's CRN is great on tuning but missing 1 important little thing, its not tuning method but its a damper thing. They need to put sponge to absorb out of control high frequencies bouncing in the nozzle, like the mod we did, following Sony's IEMs. its a little simple (but have great effect) trick.
> ...


Oh hey, nice to see you again! Wasnt the Z1R your endgame?   
(I ended up getting a ton of Sony in the end, N3, Z5, EX800ST, EX1000, A2, WF-XM3.)

And yes, my measurements are done with an clone IEC711 coupler.


----------



## RikudouGoku

profusion said:


> @RikudouGoku did you burn your cra?


No


----------



## 4ceratops (Jan 16, 2022)

evasb said:


> No, AZ10 doesn't use the Qualcomm (no aptX) and only uses AAC/SBC (no LDAC)
> 
> AZ10 is more like an iteration of AZ09 than a successor of AZ09 Pro. Can be better than AZ09 tough.


...and the AZ09 PRO has much better battery life (difference is 2 hours) on single charge. AptX is present in AptX-adaptive version too.


----------



## Ceeluh7

ChristianM said:


> 100 hours....I think I give DQ6 another try, I was thinking about selling it.
> You're using stock cable?


He's right... Dq6 needs at the least 100 hrs. I also switched out the cable but I don't think that is absolutely necessary... I went with a balanced cable to suit what I have. At the very least burn in


----------



## Ceeluh7

4ceratops said:


> ...and the AZ09 PRO has much better battery life (difference is 2 hours) on single charge. AptX is present in AptX-adaptive version too.


One thing the az10 has is like a high gain mode where the az09 pro only has a performance mode. I don't k kw how that translates to how they actually sound. I own the az09 pro and stayed away from the az10 because it does seem like more of a side grade/downgrade.


----------



## 4ceratops

Ceeluh7 said:


> One thing the az10 has is like a high gain mode where the az09 pro only has a performance mode. I don't k kw how that translates to how they actually sound. I own the az09 pro and stayed away from the az10 because it does seem like more of a side grade/downgrade.


The AZ 09 PRO has a high gain mode as well, 3 clicks on the left hook.


----------



## voicemaster

DynamicEars said:


> Great! Thanks for your prompt reply man. So basically the AZ10 is AZ09 Pro with extra green paint on the body. Wanna go with sleeker looks of AZ09 Pro absolutely.
> Thank you!


AZ09 pro has AptX adaptive which KZ doesn't even advertised on their website. It also has both "full power" mode (high gain mode) - three clicks on the left side and "high performance" mode (gaming mode) - three clicks on the right side. It is the best under $100 bluetooth earhook right now. Well unless you want to use MMCX lol.


----------



## Ceeluh7

4ceratops said:


> The AZ 09 PRO has a high gain mode as well, 3 clicks on the left hook.


It a performance mode... Like low latency


----------



## 4ceratops (Jan 16, 2022)

Ceeluh7 said:


> It a performance mode... Like low latency


Sorry but no.  Low latency is 3 clicks on the right hook, i said 3 clicks on left one for high gain.


----------



## Ceeluh7

4ceratops said:


> Sorry but no.  Low latency is 3 clicks on the right hook, i said 3 clicks on left one for high gain.


Ahhhh.... I did not know that.... I will certainly have to try that... Thanks man


----------



## Keller1

4ceratops said:


> ...and the AZ09 PRO has much better battery life (difference is 2 hours) on single charge. AptX is present in AptX-adaptive version too.


The chips can do all the AptXes this but if kz isn't marketing it, it's probably because they're not paying the separate AptX-adaptive license.

Hopefully they dont lose access to their qualcomm chip supply over this lol


----------



## DynamicEars (Jan 17, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Oh hey, nice to see you again! Wasnt the Z1R your endgame?
> (I ended up getting a ton of Sony in the end, N3, Z5, EX800ST, EX1000, A2, WF-XM3.)
> 
> And yes, my measurements are done with an clone IEC711 coupler.



Yeah, nice collections! and they share similarities, using foam as the damper (truly this is the old secret of Sony's smooth yet detailed signature sound, from MH0755 until top end Z1R.

I realized that I was chasing shadows all time long, no matter what price you are spending. Perfect IEM for individual is just a myth, so example like I have near perfect Z1R, in terms almost everything but the tuning isn't perfect to me (little bit too much mid bass and upper bass) but moving to like example Monarch mk II, i like the lower frequencies part tuning but the texture, definition and speed of the Z1R still can't be beat out, its not that simple unless you build your own true end game IEM, with you selected materials, your method, your own tuning. Even doing that way you still have to go trial and error several times. Dunno why ears are hard to pleased rather than any other body part . But I can call the Z1R is close one that I can get currently.

Anyway, thanks to you that I finally want to get the CCA CRA, almost pull my trigger on DQ6 last time but my modded KZ Z1 still doing good so I was able to resist. But now my KZ Z1 battery life is only up to 25 minutes on my left unit (after almost 2 years of usage), I need budget replacement for KZ Z1 and seems the CRA+AZ09 Pro is better option than DQ6+AZ09 Pro / another Z1 / SKS


*edited : Bought the CRA!!

Cheers!


----------



## r31ya (Jan 17, 2022)

Keller1 said:


> The chips can do all the AptXes this but if kz isn't marketing it, it's probably because they're not paying the separate AptX-adaptive license.
> 
> Hopefully they dont lose access to their qualcomm chip supply over this lol



Its because the az09 pro use qualcomm bluetooth chip (qc3040 if i recalled it right) 

Good chance Az10 use realtek or non qualcomm bluetooth chip. (If you see 5.2 bluetooth ads, without aptx ads, good chance its the cheaper realtek or some othe brand bluetooth module) 

Its a different bluetooth module. 

Qualcomm bluetooth chip will comes with that aptx feature and more importantly better battery life


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ChristianM said:


> I sold my ZSX and bought DQ6 with KZ gold silver copper cable as many people complain about DQ6's piercing treble. Now I kind of regret selling my ZSX with KZ gold/silver cable. DQ6 have so much sub and mid bass even with stock silver cable and flimsy silicon tips and more bass with 8 core cable. I have to use EQ in many songs which is very annoying. bass and treble are not as good as ZSX, mids are similar. I listened DQ6 for around 7-8 hours with my Fiio M3K. Thinking of selling DQ6 and KZ cable and get something else.


The Fiio M3K isn't very good. I haven't found a single ChiFi earphone that sounds good with it.


----------



## crimer

I'm enjoying using my AZ09 pro, but there's one little thing that bothers me, high gain mode turns off when I put earhooks back in the case and I need to turn it on again every time. Does anyone know if there's a way for it to stay on forever?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

CCA CRA is by far the best KZ/CCA I have heard OOTB. I don't feel like changing anything. It fits like a glove to my music preferences and sound signature is refreshingly mature and very close to neutral.

Probably the most fun neutral IEM in my collection. I might just get one more as a spare and backup 😅😅


----------



## voicemaster

crimer said:


> I'm enjoying using my AZ09 pro, but there's one little thing that bothers me, high gain mode turns off when I put earhooks back in the case and I need to turn it on again every time. Does anyone know if there's a way for it to stay on forever?


It is just programmed like that.


----------



## ChristianM

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The Fiio M3K isn't very good. I haven't found a single ChiFi earphone that sounds good with it.


Agree with you, M3K sound dry and not really energetic.
Do you have CRA? just like to know how it sounds with M3K.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

ChristianM said:


> Agree with you, M3K sound dry and not really energetic.
> Do you have CRA? just like to know how it sounds with M3K.


Nope. I have enough old earphones to enjoy right now. Some I bought years ago and still haven't heard.


----------



## Jansvast (Jan 17, 2022)

For you who have trouble with ZEX pro's fit try this. Unhook the cable from your ear and twist the top of the iem towards the back or your ear. I find that it fits me way better this way, but I cannot put the cable over my ear in this twisted position.

Solution? Lightly heat the ear hook with a lighter and adjust to shape with your finger (push the cable forward Near the connector with your finger while still hot, create a sort of s shape), let cool  They actually fit comfy and snuggly now and I don't mind wearing them. It saved the purchase for me!

Or just get a cable with a straight connector.

Edit: inserted image


----------



## independent

Jansvast said:


> For you who have trouble with ZEX pro's fit try this. Unhook the cable from your ear and twist the top of the iem towards the back or your ear. I find that it fits me way better this way, but I cannot put the cable over my ear in this twisted position.
> 
> Solution? Lightly heat the ear hook with a lighter and adjust to shape with your finger (push the cable forward Near the connector with your finger while still hot, create a sort of s shape), let cool  They actually fit comfy and snuggly now and I don't mind wearing them. It saved the purchase for me!
> 
> ...


Only problem with the blinkin' type C connectors is if you attach, reattach them they start to become loose. I had 3.5mm and 2.5mm cables for my IEMs but now just run one cable on it not switching because of this annoyance


----------



## seanwee

profusion said:


> @RikudouGoku did you burn your cra?


An overnight burn in helps to take the edge off a little bit but to get the full potential you'd want to mod it. I just reverted my mod and the edge is definitely still there after 100+ hours. 

I'm not sure how my mod compares to Rikudogoku's 500 mesh + sony general foam mod but it really helped tame the upper treble without affecting anything else. I cut an alcohol swab into a rectangular piece and wrap it around a needle. Then once its in the nozzle, move the needle in a circular motion until the swab adheres to the walls of the nozzle while leaving a space in the middle. 









This mod was inspired by the FDX1 nozzles which tame the upper treble as shown by this graph.


----------



## astermk

I'm having the cracking/loosening connectors issue on my ZAX  They've gotten to the point of falling off any cable I throw at them very regularly, and losing connection randomly while listening. I'll probably have to replace them soon, but it's been a good year and a half with them. Hopefully KZ can release a tribrid soon with the DD from the CRA, a few of the S-series BAs and the magnetoelectretwhatever, because if there's anything I want out of a KZ, it's outstanding technical performance for the price. Now that they seem to finally know how to tune, that's also a nice bonus. My ZAX are very good out of the box but applying the Harman pEQ preset really cleans up the added warmth from the bass boost, bass lines are more distinct and better textured, the separation of pretty much everything is better, the upper mids are less fatiguing and the lower mids sound more full bodied, etc. Point being that I can see KZs as purely a hardware investment where a simple pEQ can go a very long way in fixing tuning issues, but they have the chance to use their newfound tuning knowledge to make them absolute beasts out of the box.


----------



## seanwee (Jan 18, 2022)

astermk said:


> I'm having the cracking/loosening connectors issue on my ZAX  They've gotten to the point of falling off any cable I throw at them very regularly, and losing connection randomly while listening. I'll probably have to replace them soon, but it's been a good year and a half with them. Hopefully KZ can release a tribrid soon with the DD from the CRA, a few of the S-series BAs and the magnetoelectretwhatever, because if there's anything I want out of a KZ, it's outstanding technical performance for the price. Now that they seem to finally know how to tune, that's also a nice bonus. My ZAX are very good out of the box but applying the Harman pEQ preset really cleans up the added warmth from the bass boost, bass lines are more distinct and better textured, the separation of pretty much everything is better, the upper mids are less fatiguing and the lower mids sound more full bodied, etc. Point being that I can see KZs as purely a hardware investment where a simple pEQ can go a very long way in fixing tuning issues, but they have the chance to use their newfound tuning knowledge to make them absolute beasts out of the box.


Same issue with my ZSX. The CRA replaced it though I'm not sure if the CRAs can match up to the spaciousness of the ZAX. Technicalities on the CRA were on the same level if not better with a more lifelike tonality imo.


----------



## Jansvast (Jan 18, 2022)

My CRN has misaligned pins on the cables (they do not run parallel to the hole in the connector), so the fit is super tight. Maybe if will last a bit longer. They also have a couple of rough molding lines on the connectors as well as the iems. First QC issues I've had with KZ.

My old ZSN pro has the same connectors, and although they got a bit looser over 1.5 years of use, they still work just fine.


----------



## profusion

ChristianM said:


> 100 hours....I think I give DQ6 another try, I was thinking about selling it.
> You're using stock cable?


I use this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001747993321.html


----------



## Aparker2005

Still no cra for me. Last update was December 16th. Seller says it's now in the US and will be delivered soon. Mehhhhh


----------



## dimazbaik

DynamicEars said:


> Yeah, nice collections! and they share similarities, using foam as the damper (truly this is the old secret of Sony's smooth yet detailed signature sound, from MH0755 until top end Z1R.
> 
> I realized that I was chasing shadows all time long, no matter what price you are spending. Perfect IEM for individual is just a myth, so example like I have near perfect Z1R, in terms almost everything but the tuning isn't perfect to me (little bit too much mid bass and upper bass) but moving to like example Monarch mk II, i like the lower frequencies part tuning but the texture, definition and speed of the Z1R still can't be beat out, its not that simple unless you build your own true end game IEM, with you selected materials, your method, your own tuning. Even doing that way you still have to go trial and error several times. Dunno why ears are hard to pleased rather than any other body part . But I can call the Z1R is close one that I can get currently.
> 
> ...





seanwee said:


> An overnight burn in helps to take the edge off a little bit but to get the full potential you'd want to mod it. I just reverted my mod and the edge is definitely still there after 100+ hours.
> 
> I'm not sure how my mod compares to Rikudogoku's 500 mesh + sony general foam mod but it really helped tame the upper treble without affecting anything else. I cut an alcohol swab into a rectangular piece and wrap it around a needle. Then once its in the nozzle, move the needle in a circular motion until the swab adheres to the walls of the nozzle while leaving a space in the middle.
> 
> ...


Alcohol swap tissue?😳😳


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Aparker2005 said:


> Still no cra for me. Last update was December 16th. Seller says it's now in the US and will be delivered soon. Mehhhhh



I can't imagine that shipments from China aren't suffering from the quagmire that is California seaports right now. Any way to know if it wasn't looted from those trains in LA?


----------



## Aparker2005

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I can't imagine that shipments from China aren't suffering from the quagmire that is California seaports right now. Any way to know if it wasn't looted from those trains in LA?


Likely no way to tell. Not sure what to do at this point. I know things are taking much longer now, but I've received a few other things very quickly from China already.


----------



## RikudouGoku

dimazbaik said:


> Alcohol swap tissue?😳😳


Same mod that is used on the FDX1 and the blon 03.

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...w-contender-for-best-dd-iem.6500/#post-213883
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blo...ressions-thread.916702/page-186#post-15548987
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blo...ressions-thread.916702/page-257#post-15814248


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I can't imagine that shipments from China aren't suffering from the quagmire that is California seaports right now. Any way to know if it wasn't looted from those trains in LA?


What happened with those trains in LA?


----------



## moisespr123

Capo Dei Capi said:


> What happened with those trains in LA?


Bad guys stealing packages.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

moisespr123 said:


> Bad guys stealing packages.



More like sanctioned large scale looting. It's a disgrace.


----------



## moisespr123

Guys, it's live!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003822593243.html


----------



## kadinh

moisespr123 said:


> Guys, it's live!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003822593243.html


doesnt BGGAR have another collab with Tripown coming out soon?


----------



## PKTK

Viber said:


> I wonder how the old 18$ CCA C10 does Vs. the new budget KZs.
> I have a feeling they provide similar value...


----------



## PKTK

I would pick up CCA CRA over C10 for tightly controlled subbass and tuning. 
I would pick up C10 over CRA for detailed but smooth mids and more precise sound stage.

Both I think are still great in their price range, but different from each other. That's good.


----------



## InvisibleInk

I know my KZ AS10 is holding up well against these newer models and still commands $50+ USDs.


----------



## PKTK

moisespr123 said:


> Guys, it's live!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003822593243.html


These perhaps will be what some of the guys here tried to achieve with tuning filter mods on OG DQ6


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

InvisibleInk said:


> I know my KZ AS10 is holding up well against these newer models and still commands $50+ USDs.



I need to order a pair of these before they disappear.


----------



## InvisibleInk

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I need to order a pair of these before they disappear.


You are pretty close to it with your BA10. Penon out of Hong Kong has them on sale if you want to strike while the iron is hot, or just check them out online.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I need to order a pair of these before they disappear.


If BA10 fit you well, AS10 are reasonably similar and quite a bit warmer (love those celli sounding like double basses).
I got mine at $45 few years back (and laugh loud at me, I was worrying that they may be counterfeit). When receiving the first one, ordered the second right away (still sits unpacked, the first one endured 6+ months of being the main IEM), then I went to C16 (still love their mids) and down the rabbit hole


----------



## IEMbiker

KZ AS12 on sale at Taobao/TMall. About USD26. Superb price if you can buy from there.

 TMall Link:


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

IEMbiker said:


> KZ AS12 on sale at Taobao/TMall. About USD26. Superb price if you can buy from there.
> 
> TMall Link:


I bought for this price, they work out every penny 😊👍


----------



## TheVortex

Thought I would share this here.

This is supposed to be released next week but no word on price yet.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

profusion said:


> I use this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001747993321.html


How does that XINHS upgrade the sound for you?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> More like sanctioned large scale looting. It's a disgrace.


Seriously, how the hell do they steal them off a train? Are these FEDEX employees stealing their own packages?

Never heard of such nonsense.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Seriously, how the hell do they steal them off a train? Are these FEDEX employees stealing their own packages?
> 
> Never heard of such nonsense.


Found it. Hard to believe in a country like the US.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/14/los-angeles-cargo-theft-union-pacific


----------



## danieldvk

Capo Dei Capi said:


> Seriously, how the hell do they steal them off a train? Are these FEDEX employees stealing their own packages?
> 
> Never heard of such nonsense.


State of California, absurd laws that prevent people from being punished for petty theft ($950).


----------



## InvisibleInk

danieldvk said:


> State of California, absurd laws that prevent people from being punished for petty theft ($950).


We have close to nine million people in our jails. They have been full for a long time, plus covid the last two years. We just don't have the capacity to incarcerate any more people for stuff like looting trains!


----------



## yaps66

InvisibleInk said:


> We have close to nine million people in our jails. They have been full for a long time, plus covid the last two years. We just don't have the capacity to incarcerate any more people for stuff like looting trains!


Sad state of affairs.


----------



## Nailzs

moisespr123 said:


> Guys, it's live!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003822593243.html


Why are these cheaper at Amazon than Ali Express?


----------



## voicemaster

Nailzs said:


> Why are these cheaper at Amazon than Ali Express?


Where? I couldn't find DQ6s on amazon yet. All I see is the DQ6 without the "s" and cost $26.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Anyone here want to get a taste of the Sony XBA-N3/Z5?

Well, try this.


----------



## Ceeluh7

voicemaster said:


> Where? I couldn't find DQ6s on amazon yet. All I see is the DQ6 without the "s" and cost $26.


I've been searching too... I haven't seen it on Amazon


----------



## dimazbaik

voicemaster said:


> Where? I couldn't find DQ6s on amazon yet. All I see is the DQ6 without the "s" and cost $26.


On kz ali store


----------



## voicemaster

dimazbaik said:


> On kz ali store


I know that lol.


----------



## WilliamCruz

Is there a KZ Zex pro without the treble peak?


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

danieldvk said:


> State of California, absurd laws that prevent people from being punished for petty theft ($950).


So crime does pay, well in California anyway.

I was in a seven 11 in Baltimore. These two guys came in, drank lots of soda, ate candy bars etc, through all the crap on the ground and walked out. CCTV everywhere and the staff saw them and did nothing.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Anyone has both the KZ AZ10 and AZ09 Pro? I'm planning to get one module for regular portable usage. Are differences between them significant, if so then what? Because in my country, I'm getting AZ10 almost $10 cheaper than AZ09 Pro.

Appreciate your views on this. Thanks in advance.


----------



## jant71

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> Anyone has both the KZ AZ10 and AZ09 Pro? I'm planning to get one module for regular portable usage. Are differences between them significant, if so then what? Because in my country, I'm getting AZ10 almost $10 cheaper than AZ09 Pro.
> 
> Appreciate your views on this. Thanks in advance.


AZ10 is more a gaming version. The Pro has aptX and adaptive codecs, 2 hours more battery, and a couple who tried both liked the sound better on the Pro. Not sure if it was related to the chip sounding different in general or the better codecs were involved in that. Just read those comments but did not delve into cause more battery and better codecs would make the choice easy for me so no need to ask for particulars.


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 26, 2022)

PW graph looks better compare to hbb graph tho... 8k peak


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

jant71 said:


> AZ10 is more a gaming version. The Pro has aptX and adaptive codecs, 2 hours more battery, and a couple who tried both liked the sound better on the Pro. Not sure if it was related to the chip sounding different in general or the better codecs were involved in that. Just read those comments but did not delve into cause more battery and better codecs would make the choice easy for me so no need to ask for particulars.


Thanks for your views. Have gone ahead with AZ09 Pro. Should arrive tomorrow.


----------



## kalo86 (Jan 26, 2022)

Hello guys,

I have the KZ ZAX and I wonder if there is a new model of wired iem by KZ which is better than the ZAX.
Do you have any suggestion?

Thanks!
kalo86


----------



## Tzennn

kalo86 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have the KZ ZAX and I wonder if there is a new model of wired iem by KZ which is better than the ZAX.
> Do you have any suggestion?
> ...


I think if you find yourself satisfied with ZAX then it's unnecessary to buy newer KZ. If you really want to upgrade maybe you should check other brands


----------



## kalo86

Tzennn said:


> I think if you find yourself satisfied with ZAX then it's unnecessary to buy newer KZ. If you really want to upgrade maybe you should check other brands


I don't want to change brand because I tried several iem and sound systems brands and the quality of sound of the KZ is very very in line with the top brands which cost 10-20 times more. I will stay with KZ.


----------



## Nimweth

Just ordered AS12 from Ali Express, $29! SA Audio Store.


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 26, 2022)

kalo86 said:


> I don't want to change brand because I tried several iem and sound systems brands and the quality of sound of the KZ is very very in line with the top brands which cost 10-20 times more. I will stay with KZ.


Hmm depend on your taste actually. Under 50$, kz is king but above that isn't. For classical, yes, other genres, no. There is a lot of iem that better than kz actually but again, it depend on your taste. I like harman so kz more like mixed bag to me
Edit: try some more iem if you can. Like what i did switching from ZAX/ZSN pro to Moondrop Spaceship/SSR


----------



## Nimweth

kalo86 said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I have the KZ ZAX and I wonder if there is a new model of wired iem by KZ which is better than the ZAX.
> Do you have any suggestion?
> ...


If you want to try a good hybrid, KZ's sister brand CCA offers some good options such as CA16, CKX, CA16 Pro. In my opinion, the CKX is preferable to the ZAX.


----------



## kalo86

The difference between ZAX and CKX is noticeable? A friend of mine wants to buy a similar iem like the KZ ZAX and before selecting a random iem, I want to check if there is a valid or better alternative of KZ or similar brands bellow 100 Euros. 
I'm going to check the CKX, thank you for the suggestion!


----------



## Nimweth

kalo86 said:


> The difference between ZAX and CKX is noticeable? A friend of mine wants to buy a similar iem like the KZ ZAX and before selecting a random iem, I want to check if there is a valid or better alternative of KZ or similar brands bellow 100 Euros.
> I'm going to check the CKX, thank you for the suggestion!


CKX (with my equipment and ears) has better sub bass,  less recessed mids and a cleaner treble. ZAX is more V-shaped and more of a "fun" tuning with occasional treble harshness. CKX is more balanced and is very comfortable in the ears, very compact housing.


----------



## kalo86

I use the balanced cable and the iBasso DX220 equipment. For me the ZAX is amazing for the cost... Incredibile audio quality but now I'm very curious about the CKX!


----------



## kalo86

I have a question: may I use the same cable with the CKX? I use the Tripowin balanced cable with the ZAX


----------



## Nimweth

Yes, the CKX has the type "C" connector like the ZAX.


----------



## kalo86

This is what I wanted to hear! Fantastic! Thank you again guys!


----------



## Nimweth

You may find my review of the CKX helpful:
www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/page-173


----------



## voicemaster

kalo86 said:


> The difference between ZAX and CKX is noticeable? A friend of mine wants to buy a similar iem like the KZ ZAX and before selecting a random iem, I want to check if there is a valid or better alternative of KZ or similar brands bellow 100 Euros.
> I'm going to check the CKX, thank you for the suggestion!


Just a little less treble sparkle, the rest is pretty much similar.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Capo Dei Capi said:


> I was in a seven 11 in Baltimore. These two guys came in, drank lots of soda, ate candy bars etc, through all the crap on the ground and walked out. CCTV everywhere and the staff saw them and did nothing.


Nobody did anything because they were committing slow suicide. Diabetes growth.


----------



## moisespr123

Is the KZ DQ6S in a pre-sale period? Mine hasn't shipped and the Chinese new year is coming. Wondering if I can expect it to ship after the holiday finishes.


----------



## Rocket222

The factories in China used to close about a week before the Chinese new year, so the workers can travel back to their home towns, which can be very far away, for the New Year.  I think you can expect it to be shipped about 1-2 weeks after the New Year.


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 28, 2022)

So my CRA just arrived. Because everyone review them already so i just gonna do a quick impression




*Non Sound:*
Box seems smaller compare to older kz. Tips is actually unusable, they aren't starlight, just ordinary tips that you can find everywhere on amazon, stiff and make CRA sound worse. Copper cable like EDC, not bad but i kinda want silver cable like NRA.
*Sound: 
Stock tips:* V shape
-  Bass: Subbass focus, very very tight and fast, detail, there is a lot of bass with just tiny bass bleed. Actually too much bass for my liking
-  Mid: clean and neutral, a little bit lean if you come from harman iem but very clean vocal, female vocal sounds better than male vocal (whispy, clean)
-  Treble: Well extended, even better than my Heart Mirror. 5k peak hits sometimes but overall not too much
*Kz smol tips:* Balanced
-  Bass dial down a little bit make it more suitable for my taste
-  Mid remain the same
-  5k peak is fixed
Timbre is the same as DQ6, just 1 cleaner and 1 more analogue
Absolute rec for under 50$, nothing beat this


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

Check out my review of  *CCA CA10* *Here*.


----------



## bhazard

The AZ09 Pro is far better than many people realize.
With an Aliexpress aptX Adaptive dongle, I'm able to use it on my desktop for both conference calls and music. Very few bluetooth headset adapters have aptX adaptive, and I can confirm it is sending aptX adaptive from the dongle and my PC. Considering my Galaxy Buds Pro can't even do that, I get better sound quality from the AZ09 Pro and my CRA/CRN than anything not using aptX adaptive.

Eventually I would love to see LDAC and aptX Lossless.... in time, but this is great right now.


----------



## jant71

bhazard said:


> The AZ09 Pro is far better than many people realize.
> With an Aliexpress aptX Adaptive dongle, I'm able to use it on my desktop for both conference calls and music. Very few bluetooth headset adapters have aptX adaptive, and I can confirm it is sending aptX adaptive from the dongle and my PC. Considering my Galaxy Buds Pro can't even do that, I get better sound quality from the AZ09 Pro and my CRA/CRN than anything not using aptX adaptive.
> 
> Eventually I would love to see LDAC and aptX Lossless.... in time, but this is great right now.


You really think there will be both? Pay for both licenses? AptX Loseless is quite close so think that will start to show up more and more and I think a KZ will just go with that esp. since it is more battery friendly than LDAC.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> You really think there will be both? Pay for both licenses? AptX Loseless is quite close so think that will start to show up more and more and I think a KZ will just go with that esp. since it is more battery friendly than LDAC.


Lol KZ themselves don't advertise the AZ09 pro being able to use AptX adaptive. I found it by accident when I was pairing my AZ09 pro to AE bluetooth adapter that I originally bought for my Fiio UTWS5. And to my surprise, it connected with AptX adaptive.


----------



## jant71

voicemaster said:


> Lol KZ themselves don't advertise the AZ09 pro being able to use AptX adaptive. I found it by accident when I was pairing my AZ09 pro to AE bluetooth adapter that I originally bought for my Fiio UTWS5. And to my surprise, it connected with AptX adaptive.


Yep, I know it does adaptive but saying I highly doubt they would do LDAC and really really highly doubt both aptX codecs and LDAC together. Plenty of things that transmit but on the receiving end the codec list is never as long.


----------



## voicemaster

jant71 said:


> Yep, I know it does adaptive but saying I highly doubt they would do LDAC and really really highly doubt both aptX codecs and LDAC together. Plenty of things that transmit but on the receiving end the codec list is never as long.


Even on expensive TWS, there are rarely that do both AptX and LDAC together.


----------



## thug behram

Hi, I am trying to make an IEM purchase and would love some recommendations:

- Looking for V-shaped with good sub-bass extension and impact, as well as upper treble detail and air. For context, fullsize fostex headphones are my fav.
- Comfort is important
- Needs to have a mic cable option 
- I prefer straight down but I can do over ear also
- Will likely aftermarket foam tips

- IEMs I have had in the past are DUNU DN-1000 which were great with comply foamies. I also had KZ ZS6 which I didn't like due to lack of sub-bass and too much treble but the detail was great.

I am thinking of trying KZ ZS10 Pro now, anything else better I should try? Thanks!


----------



## deltecdpa (Feb 4, 2022)

My Zs-10 (non pro) after more than 2 years are still pleasing me in my jogging sessions, about 3 times a week withstanding rain and sweat. They outperform all previous IEMs I used for jogging, that last about one year each. Monster Victory, Westone Adv Alpha, V-moda Forza. All built specifically for workout, sweat proof etc., unlike Zs-10, cost 6-7 times more than the KZ, with a similar sound quality. Well, well done KZ!


----------



## Aparker2005

My CRA finally arrived today. To say I'm impressed is an understatement. How are these only 1 driver? Love them so far! 

Can anyone explain the DQ6s? I loved my DQ6....


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

deltecdpa said:


> My Zs-10 (non pro) after more than 2 years are still pleasing me in my jogging sessions, about 3 times a week withstanding rain and sweat. They outperform all previous IEMs I used for jogging, that last about one year each. Monster Victory, Westone Adv Alpha, V-moda Forza. All built specifically for workout, sweat proof etc., unlike Zs-10, cost 6-7 times than the KZ, with a similar sound quality. Well, well done KZ!


That's a true audiophile love story.  ♡


----------



## ihaveears (Jan 30, 2022)

Edit: Fixed my AZ09 Pro pairing issue in Windows 10
Method: Repeatedly pairing and unpairing it and resetting them, no method to the madness.


----------



## profusion

Aparker2005 said:


> My CRA finally arrived today. To say I'm impressed is an understatement. How are these only 1 driver? Love them so far!
> 
> Can anyone explain the DQ6s? I loved my DQ6....


What are your impression comparing to DQ6 which i love too?


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 30, 2022)

profusion said:


> What are your impression comparing to DQ6 which i love too?


CRA is DQ6 but better in almost everything, i guess. Expect bass is slower than CRA (could be a con), more dynamic than CRA and the timbre is more neutral/analogue compare to clean sounding of CRA. DQ6 have 8k peak and 2k peak while CRA have 5k peak and 12-13k peak. I think if you like treble you will like CRA


----------



## PhonoPhi

profusion said:


> What are your impression comparing to DQ6 which i love too?


I have an opposite opinion.
While CRA are great for its price, and  I do like the shells, to my ears DQ6 are better, and ZAX are notably better (othen than DD and the low end, there CRA beat DQ6 notably and ZAX by far).
CRA are overhyped a bit at the moment, there will be another IEM flavour of the week/month when KZ will start to use this DD in other designs.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 30, 2022)

profusion said:


> What are your impression comparing to DQ6 which i love too?


I can add that ordered a bunch of CRA to give as presents, but based on price and design.


----------



## Tzennn

PhonoPhi said:


> I have an opposite opinion.
> While CRA are great for its price, and  I do like the shells, to my ears DQ6 are better, and ZAX are notably better (othen than DD and the low end, there CRA beat DQ6 notably and ZAX by far).
> *CRA are overhyped a bit at the moment*, there will be another IEM flavour of the week/month when KZ will start to use this DD in other designs.


Well there is only one reason, because we all asian !


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jan 30, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> Well there is only one reason, because we all asian !


I would not agree easily, I really like KZ V-shape in general, and AS16, that are not generally popular with its treble boost, are one of my favourite IEMs.
CRA sound brittle to me, some mids feel thin and coupled with the 5K boost that does not work for me (I do use wide-bore tips and do have a seal etc to refute the "dismissal of antihype" 

P. S. Are CRA great for $12 - absolutely!
Do they beat everything under $50 or even $25 - definitely, no to me.


----------



## r31ya

PhonoPhi said:


> I have an opposite opinion.
> While CRA are great for its price, and  I do like the shells, to my ears DQ6 are better, and ZAX are notably better (othen than DD and the low end, there CRA beat DQ6 notably and ZAX by far).
> CRA are overhyped a bit at the moment, there will be another IEM flavour of the week/month when KZ will start to use this DD in other designs.


Right now i'm in weird state of CRA is pretty damn good for me, but it didn't still click with me.
ZexPro have its issues that i bitch a lot but it impresses me more than CRA now.

That being said, i'm still using default equip of CRA.
Even Aria require me to mod it a bit and get the full gear to make it great for me.

So, what are your cables and eartips that you use for your CRA?


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> Right now i'm in weird state of CRA is pretty damn good for me, but it didn't still click with me.
> ZexPro have its issues that i bitch a lot but it impresses me more than CRA now.
> 
> That being said, i'm still using default equip of CRA.
> ...


Cables do not matter, in my limited experience. I use 2.5 balanced with a good resistance and comfort. I was rotating few purely for aesthetics. Moreover, I would be more concerned with the subjectivity of those hearing cables without any factual evidence,  personally. 

 Tips - wide bore, similar to Spiral dots, I tried Spiral dots.

ZEX pro are also not perfect for me, but I would prefer them to CRA if I had only two those IEMs.


----------



## Tzennn (Jan 30, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> I would not agree easily, I really like KZ V-shape in general, and AS16, that are not generally popular with its treble boost, are one of my favourite IEMs.
> CRA sound brittle to me, some mids feel thin and coupled with the 5K boost that does not work for me (I do use wide-bore tips and do have a seal etc to refute the "dismissal of antihype"
> 
> P. S. Are CRA great for $12 - absolutely!
> Do they beat everything under $50 or even $25 - definitely, no to me.


Hmm personally, i don't find CRA brittle or anything at all, 5k peak do hits but it gentle enough to not intrude anything in the song. But CRA is a little picky about the song you played


r31ya said:


> Right now i'm in weird state of CRA is pretty damn good for me, but it didn't still click with me.
> ZexPro have its issues that i bitch a lot but it impresses me more than CRA now.
> 
> That being said, i'm still using default equip of CRA.
> ...


kz 16 core if you want to smoothen the sound and make it less agressive, and a wide bore tips


----------



## axhng

r31ya said:


> Right now i'm in weird state of CRA is pretty damn good for me, but it didn't still click with me.
> ZexPro have its issues that i bitch a lot but it impresses me more than CRA now.
> 
> That being said, i'm still using default equip of CRA.
> ...







without EQ i'll probably take the ZEX Pro too, over CRA and DQ6S. Overall pretty much just the slightly more 3k energy and less 8k peak for my ears. Though i have to mention too that my first ZEX Pro and the CRN branded one I got later sounding slightly different with the first one being more balanced with a tiny bit less bass, and noticeably less 8k peak. With the higher 8k on CRA, it hits me even harder for my ears, so i find it a bit hard to handle. Though with EQ, the CRA is probably my pick though. The treble region sound more natural and less "off" compared to ZEX Pro to me, and I feel like technical performance is still a bit better than the other 2 overall while being much cheaper.

I'm running this EQ settings in poweramp for CRA. not going to swear by it or what since it was just some pretty quick tweaks I did on the go to make them more enjoyable for my own taste, and could probably still use more refinement. 




Spoiler



Low shelf
Q 0.75
50Hz
Gain -3.0

Band Pass
Q 5
2.0kHz
Gain 2.0

Band Pass
Q 5
3.0kHz
Gain 4.5

Band Pass
Q 5
5.0kHz
Gain -2.0

Peaking Band
Q 4
8.0kHz
Gain -5.5


----------



## Joong (Jan 31, 2022)

I recently purchased several iems, like Dunu zen / Falcon pro, fiio fh7, Timeless for classical orchestral music, which are expensive than Kz Ast that I carried along my journey.
Yesterday I happened to listen to Chopin pinano concerto 2 through Fiio Btr5 with KZ AST that supprized me of the musicality and sound quality of strings embedded in piano sound. That emotion through AST was so impressive that I returned home and tried with all other iems above with full desk top chains like topping d90se / topping a90.
However I didn't get that musicality through any of other iems but KZ AST with humble Fiio btr5.
This forces me rethinking for iems for music listening, so that the sound quality might not be proportion to the price I paid for.
The balance of orchestral instrument was so balanced to my liking at least, and the sound of strings were well balanced so that the piano playing was so much expressive in cohesive way.
Those feeling with AST was exprerienced with my fellow head-fiers here?


----------



## ExTubeGamer

For my liking I can only stand listening to the KZ AST after a lot of EQ applied to it. The most important factors are high end eq software, clean output of the source gear and low impedance of the headphone jack the AST is connected to.


----------



## Joong

ExTubeGamer said:


> For my liking I can only stand listening to the KZ AST after a lot of EQ applied to it. The most important factors are high end eq software, clean output of the source gear and low impedance of the headphone jack the AST is connected to.


Human ear canal structure is different each other so that the different EQ makes sense in general.
This might explain that you must believe in what you are hearing.


----------



## Joong

Why are we bound to be tied with what we paid for and what we are influenced by other's opinions aka brand?
Those are not directly related to the sound quality with respect to individual hearing structure, which is instrinsically different each other.
This is reason why there are so many threads in this forum, and so many devices are discussed for.


----------



## Joong

Can you guys recommend me for movie watching iem?

Covid-19 forces many people to sit down to what movie or Youtube.
I spend more time with those rather than just music listening.


----------



## saldsald

Joong said:


> I recently purchased several iems, like Dunu zen / Falcon pro, fiio fh7, Timeless for classical orchestral music, which are expensive than Kz Ast that I carried along my journey.
> Yesterday I happened to listen to Chopin pinano concerto 2 through Fiio Btr5 with KZ AST that supprized me of the musicality and sound quality of strings embedded in piano sound. That emotion through AST was so impressive that I returned home and tried with all other iems above with full desk top chains like topping d90se / topping a90.
> However I didn't get that musicality through any of other iems but KZ AST with humble Fiio btr5.
> This forces me rethinking for iems for music listening, so that the sound quality might not be proportion to the price I paid for.
> ...


AST IMHO requires source matching. It sounds bad with the Fiio M11 Pro, ok with my ZX507, and excellent with Shanling M8. KZ's BAs are more comparable with more expensive BAs made by Knowles and Sonion but their DDs are still not there yet.


----------



## baskingshark

Joong said:


> Can you guys recommend me for movie watching iem?
> 
> Covid-19 forces many people to sit down to what movie or Youtube.
> I spend more time with those rather than just music listening.



Final Audio E500.

It has great imaging and soundstage for binaural tracks, movies and gaming. Otherwise for non-binural tracks it sounds meh.

For $20 it is a good tool for movies IMHO. Plus it comes with Final E tips, which retail around $15 USD, so imagine it as buying the IEM themselves for $5.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Joong said:


> I recently purchased several iems, like Dunu zen / Falcon pro, fiio fh7, Timeless for classical orchestral music, which are expensive than Kz Ast that I carried along my journey.
> Yesterday I happened to listen to Chopin pinano concerto 2 through Fiio Btr5 with KZ AST that supprized me of the musicality and sound quality of strings embedded in piano sound. That emotion through AST was so impressive that I returned home and tried with all other iems above with full desk top chains like topping d90se / topping a90.
> However I didn't get that musicality through any of other iems but KZ AST with humble Fiio btr5.
> This forces me rethinking for iems for music listening, so that the sound quality might not be proportion to the price I paid for.
> ...


AST are amazing IEM for classics if you prefer strings to sound soft, yet resolving.
Source matching with AST is quite important in my experience. Brighter ESS-based sources worked the best for me, BTR5 would be in the list, not the brightest but also not AK- like rendering.

P. S. I am not sure how after CRA and ZEX pro the statements that KZ does not have decent DDs can sound...


----------



## RCracer777

Joong said:


> Can you guys recommend me for movie watching iem?
> 
> Covid-19 forces many people to sit down to what movie or Youtube.
> I spend more time with those rather than just music listening.


My personal choice for this is the CCZ Emerald. Comfortable fit, having pretty large soundstage with good imaging, separation and layering. Combine that with a mild V shaped and solid sub-bass performance it makes me feel like being at the movies when I use them. It's definitely a smooth IEM, great for laid back listening not so much for analytical listening.

But I will say that this is with Dolby Atmos turned on on my devices, without it's still pretty good but it's needed to get the most out of them for this purpose. DTS:X 3D will do just fine as well. Just remember to turn those off when listening to music.

At around €25~30 it's pretty cheap and performs well.


----------



## lushmelody

Yeah, DDs are great but still sound compressed with multiple sounds happening. So BAs keep the crown when you want to listen fully everything around. 

KZs new black BAs are natural sounding indeed. If KZ tackle for good mainstream tuning for those IEMs it'll be very hard to beat their price-to-perfomance offer. 

While that doesn't happen, EQ is our friend. Talking about AST... If you listen to mainstream genres which this IEM midbass is too bloated and subbass lacking, I did a good preset to fix it 

Preamp: -4
50hz / Low shelf / 0.6 Q / + 9
200hz / Low shelf / 0.6 Q / - 6

For a bit more mids presence, sibilance control and sparkly treble:

Preamp: -8
2000hz / Peak / 1.5 Q / + 1
4000hz / Peak / 1.5 Q / + 2
5200hz / Peak / 2.4 Q / - 6
8000hz / Peak / 4 Q / + 6
11500hz / Peak / 4 Q / + 7

These presets for a neutral or warm source (my laptop and phone). For a bright DAC i would do less 8k and 11/12k peak. With EQ its very hard to beat our little BA monstrosity  anything I own to compare is meh and less comfortable


----------



## evasb (Jan 31, 2022)

Maybe a collab can help KZ to do a full BA well.

Sad that, after HBB, I don't see anybody influential enough to do help KZ with a full-BA set, and sometimes I think KZ should just drop BA sets altogether.

 Possibly Crinacle would be open to do a Full-BA collab with KZ? Heard that he was not much pleased with KZ drivers when developing the CRN, and he likely will do a v2 of CRN still in 2022. Perhaps could a $100 KZ full BA set in between make a bank for both sides?

PS: Anyway, I think crinacle said that he will take a break with collabs. So, only the CRN v2 could happen.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I am silently waiting for the collaboration nonsense to end, but at the same time I'm wondering what's wrong with their engineering group to have such lousy control over the FR and inconsistent results. I'm just not sure if it's a marketing tactic, ineptitude, or both. 

Having said that, eliminating all-BA sets just because there isn't a YouTube personality attached to each one is crazy talk. BA10 is still my best pair of KZ's and also the oldest design.


----------



## evasb (Jan 31, 2022)

I think that with collaborations, they are bound to a certain tuning that may not be good to their native Chinese markets in exchange to be attached to a personality that can bring the sales to them. I don't care about the personalities, I care about the tuning. It is a fact that collaborations can bring sets that wouldn't be economically possible without the promotion of an e-celeb -- chinese likes their treble cannons.

An example of this is that CRN it was not a favorite for the regular KZ audience, and it's a success anyway.

BA10 is already 3-year-old and discontinued. KZ lost a year to TWS mistakes, engineers go, and looks like they are back almost to square one in the BA department (DD seems fine).


----------



## MacAttack7

Joong said:


> I recently purchased several iems, like Dunu zen / Falcon pro, fiio fh7, Timeless for classical orchestral music, which are expensive than Kz Ast that I carried along my journey.
> Yesterday I happened to listen to Chopin pinano concerto 2 through Fiio Btr5 with KZ AST that supprized me of the musicality and sound quality of strings embedded in piano sound. That emotion through AST was so impressive that I returned home and tried with all other iems above with full desk top chains like topping d90se / topping a90.
> However I didn't get that musicality through any of other iems but KZ AST with humble Fiio btr5.
> This forces me rethinking for iems for music listening, so that the sound quality might not be proportion to the price I paid for.
> ...


I really enjoy music with my AST's (and ASX's). I'm not sure why, but for some reason I get more absorbed in the music with them.
I agree that the emotion that comes thru is impressive....don't know how else to describe it.
I listen to a lot of singer/songwriter music, so I don't know if they are better with that type of music maybe.


----------



## saldsald

MacAttack7 said:


> I really enjoy music with my AST's (and ASX's). I'm not sure why, but for some reason I get more absorbed in the music with them.
> I agree that the emotion that comes thru is impressive....don't know how else to describe it.
> I listen to a lot of singer/songwriter music, so I don't know if they are better with that type of music maybe.


I think the frequency focus of the AST makes it automatically more immersive than sets with more treble. I find the AST amazing in reproducing bass guitars' sounds. The 'kick' of the bass amp on the floor is so accurate you are like listening there live.


----------



## InvisibleInk

evasb said:


> I think that with collaborations, they are bound to a certain tuning that may not be good to their native Chinese markets in exchange to be attached to a personality that can bring the sales to them. I don't care about the personalities, I care about the tuning. It is a fact that collaborations can bring sets that wouldn't be economically possible without the promotion of an e-celeb -- chinese likes their treble cannons.
> 
> An example of this is that CRN it was not a favorite for the regular KZ audience, and it's a success anyway.
> 
> BA10 is already 3-year-old and discontinued. KZ lost a year to TWS mistakes, engineers go, and looks like they are back almost to square one in the BA department (DD seems fine).


I also saw the decline of BA sets. They made duplicates and variations with more drivers, but never caught the lightning in a bottle that describes both my BA10 and my AS10.


----------



## jananan78

PhonoPhi said:


> I would not agree easily, I really like KZ V-shape in general, and AS16, that are not generally popular with its treble boost, are one of my favourite IEMs.
> CRA sound brittle to me, some mids feel thin and coupled with the 5K boost that does not work for me (I do use wide-bore tips and do have a seal etc to refute the "dismissal of antihype"
> 
> P. S. Are CRA great for $12 - absolutely!
> Do they beat everything under $50 or even $25 - definitely, no to me.



I too find the CRA sounding brittle compared to zex pro and edX pro, not to mention other fiio hybrids. 

I changed to copper cables and spinfits but still sounds crackly somewhat. continuing to burn in.


----------



## XerusKun

r31ya said:


> Right now i'm in weird state of CRA is pretty damn good for me, but it didn't still click with me.
> ZexPro have its issues that i bitch a lot but it impresses me more than CRA now.
> 
> That being said, i'm still using default equip of CRA.
> ...


I recommend trying Nicehck C8-1 (The cable with gold and black accents) and Tanchjim T300B or Trn Tips (looks like a generic black/red tips but works wonderfully for the CRA.)


----------



## seanwee

PhonoPhi said:


> I would not agree easily, I really like KZ V-shape in general, and AS16, that are not generally popular with its treble boost, are one of my favourite IEMs.
> CRA sound brittle to me, some mids feel thin and coupled with the 5K boost that does not work for me (I do use wide-bore tips and do have a seal etc to refute the "dismissal of antihype"
> 
> P. S. Are CRA great for $12 - absolutely!
> Do they beat everything under $50 or even $25 - definitely, no to me.


Try the nozzle mod, it improves the sound significantly imo.


----------



## jananan78

seanwee said:


> Try the nozzle mod, it improves the sound significantly imo.


unfortunately I can't get the type of acoustic foam to mod it. I wonder if cotton will help lol. for now I'm still biased towards zex pro (original) with eq mod. the zex pro is a winner except for the treble. I wish kz will start using Knowles BA instead of in house units that always get the tone weird.


----------



## voicemaster

jananan78 said:


> unfortunately I can't get the type of acoustic foam to mod it. I wonder if cotton will help lol. for now I'm still biased towards zex pro (original) with eq mod. the zex pro is a winner except for the treble. I wish kz will start using Knowles BA instead of in house units that always get the tone weird.


That will be a fairytale.


----------



## Nailzs

PhonoPhi said:


> P. S. Are CRA great for $12 - absolutely!
> Do they beat everything under $50 or even $25 - definitely, no to me.


Do they beat Moondrop Quarks at $15.00?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 2, 2022)

Nailzs said:


> Do they beat Moondrop Quarks at $15.00?


I do not have Quarks, only Aria (as some reference point, since there is this mentality "upgrade from KZ", well, I could not, staying happily with KZ as very good IEMs to my ears)

Here are my CRA #2 and #3, the packages for black and crystals are wildly different, as if two different IEMs


----------



## Joong

I was encouraged by Jz ast, and consider cca ca24.
Cca ca24 has different from ast in any sense?


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren (Feb 2, 2022)

*Check out my review of KZ X HBB: DQ6S HERE.
*


----------



## PhonoPhi

Joong said:


> I was encouraged by Jz ast, and consider cca ca24.
> Cca ca24 has different from ast in any sense?


I was replied directly by CCA - the same IEM (drivers, parameters - AST & CA24), just a bit different design, so CCA CA24 can be purchased a bit less expensive.


----------



## Tzennn (Feb 2, 2022)

Zerstorer_GOhren said:


> *Check out my review of KZ X HBB: DQ6S HERE.
> *


Wrong link tho :/


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

Tzennn said:


> Wrong link tho :/


Fixed


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Feb 3, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> Cables do not matter, in my limited experience. I use 2.5 balanced with a good resistance and comfort. I was rotating few purely for aesthetics. Moreover, I would be more concerned with the subjectivity of those hearing cables without any factual evidence,  personally.


A personal opinion isn't factual evidence? I notice differences in cables and those cables had some technical stats listed in the Aliexpress listing. No stats may just be an average cable. I haven't bought enough cables to know if that is true yet.

I do notice that 16 cores are also better than 4, 8 and even 2. I read someone say previously that only 4-8 cores are necessary. I disagree from the factual evidence my ears presented to me, 16 cores all the way.


----------



## ChristianM

Zerstorer_GOhren said:


> *Check out my review of KZ X HBB: DQ6S HERE.
> *


These eartips looks better than the ones that comes with OG DQ6. I don't know why KZ not selling these tips separately, couldn't find on Aliexpess.


----------



## lgcubana

Here’s my quandary on the new DQ6S: from what I’ve read so far, the S appears to be the same hardware, with a re-tuning; so if that’s correct, can I achieve nearly the same results by EQing my DQ6 ?


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

ChristianM said:


> These eartips looks better than the ones that comes with OG DQ6. I don't know why KZ not selling these tips separately, couldn't find on Aliexpess.


The tips are somehow an improvement.


----------



## r31ya

lgcubana said:


> Here’s my quandary on the new DQ6S: from what I’ve read so far, the S appears to be the same hardware, with a re-tuning; so if that’s correct, can I achieve nearly the same results by EQing my DQ6 ?


From what i read, dq6s is basically mele tuning on dq6


----------



## voicemaster

lgcubana said:


> Here’s my quandary on the new DQ6S: from what I’ve read so far, the S appears to be the same hardware, with a re-tuning; so if that’s correct, can I achieve nearly the same results by EQing my DQ6 ?


You can basically in theory tune any IEMs with EQ especially a professional level EQ. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dbx-231s-Channel-31-Band-Equalizer/dp/B004NDHZTY
or you can just buy a small digital mixing console that has both 31 band EQ and parametric EQ for more precise tuning.


----------



## PhonoPhi

LaughMoreDaily said:


> A personal opinion isn't factual evidence? I notice differences in cables and those cables had some technical stats listed in the Aliexpress listing. No stats may just be an average cable. I haven't bought enough cables to know if that is true yet.
> 
> I do notice that 16 cores are also better than 4, 8 and even 2. I read someone say previously that only 4-8 cores are necessary. I disagree from the factual evidence my ears presented to me, 16 cores all the way.


There are many different personal opinions out there, e.g. about the flat Earth.
The objective evidence can come not only from some involved measurements but from simple double-blind tests. 
Except for the clear evidence of the effect of cable resistivity, nothing else were proven.

8 or 16 cores? I switched all my favourite IEMs to 24-core cables - I just like the softness, the symmetry of weaving (those electrons carrying sound information are more organized for the ultimate finesse of the audophilic ecstacy) and the colours above all for the visual enjoyment


----------



## Xenderos

I have AZ09 BA adapter with ZSN Pro X. Background noise and hiss makes this pair not usable. Do you think AZ09 Pro or AZ10 will solve hiss issue?


----------



## voicemaster (Feb 3, 2022)

Xenderos said:


> I have AZ09 BA adapter with ZSN Pro X. Background noise and hiss makes this pair not usable. Do you think AZ09 Pro or AZ10 will solve hiss issue?


Yes. The problem with AZ09 is that KZ set the gain too high imho. The AZ09 pro is basically an upgrade on every aspects from AZ09.


----------



## Xenderos

voicemaster said:


> Yes. The problem with AZ09 is that KZ set the gain too high imho. The AZ09 pro is basically an upgrade on every aspects from AZ09.


And which one should be better AZ09 Pro or AZ10? I am going to use it mostly with Windows PC for listening music and gaming.


----------



## voicemaster

Xenderos said:


> And which one should be better AZ09 Pro or AZ10? I am going to use it mostly with Windows PC for listening music and gaming.


I don't have the AZ10, but the pro so I don't know. I would still get the pro even with the AZ10 available.


----------



## jananan78

PhonoPhi said:


> I do not have Quarks, only Aria (as some reference point, since there is this mentality "upgrade from KZ", well, I could not, staying happily with KZ as very good IEMs to my ears)
> 
> Here are my CRA #2 and #3, the packages for black and crystals are wildly different, as if two different IEMs


----------



## lushmelody

lgcubana said:


> Here’s my quandary on the new DQ6S: from what I’ve read so far, the S appears to be the same hardware, with a re-tuning; so if that’s correct, can I achieve nearly the same results by EQing my DQ6 ?


Yep. No need to buy the new one


----------



## ericf

Anyway, will Linsoul stock the DQ6S? I can't find it on site at the moment.
Using EQ is a rather cumbersome process on my DAPS (iBasso DX-80 and DX-120) and the Foobar2000 EQ isn't very flexible either. Haven't tried any PEQs on my computer. Might be able to do some eq if I get the new Chord Mojo 2, though.


----------



## lushmelody

ericf said:


> Anyway, will Linsoul stock the DQ6S? I can't find it on site at the moment.
> Using EQ is a rather cumbersome process on my DAPS (iBasso DX-80 and DX-120) and the Foobar2000 EQ isn't very flexible either. Haven't tried any PEQs on my computer. Might be able to do some eq if I get the new Chord Mojo 2, though.


If those DAPs are android (and is a more recent version, 9 onwards i think) you can install Poweramp which is a whole system PEQ for $1 dollar. Just a small script adjustment on PC by USB and you are good.


----------



## DunninLA

re: Foam Tips with Narrow tip opening?

I have the C12 and would like to tame the lower treble and even a little bit the upper treble.

I already have the KZ foam tips.  They are what I would call med/wide bore (the size of the opening on the end of the tip), same as Comply and same as the New Bee foamies I got on amazon.  When I google foam tips I always seem to find pics showing med/wide tip openings and they all look the same at the KZ and New Bee foam tip openings.

With Silicone tips, there are narrow, med, wide bores made by different manufacturers.  Is anyone aware of a foam NARROW BORE TIP that fits the KZ approx 5.5 mm nozzle?


----------



## ericf

lushmelody said:


> If those DAPs are android (and is a more recent version, 9 onwards i think) you can install Poweramp which is a whole system PEQ for $1 dollar. Just a small script adjustment on PC by USB and you are good.


Thanks for the tip. Those DAPS are the old school type that isn't like a mobile phone. The type of OS is Mango _OS._ 
Oh, and I meant DX-90. DX-80 was a model that came later and it was, by all accounts, pretty bad.


----------



## XerusKun (Feb 5, 2022)

DunninLA said:


> re: Foam Tips with Narrow tip opening?
> 
> I have the C12 and would like to tame the lower treble and even a little bit the upper treble.
> 
> ...


Have you tried Acoustune AET-08 or TRN Tips (red), I also have the C12s and those tips tamed down the treble for me. You can also try the Spinfits CP145, but it will not tame down the treble that much compared to Acoustune/TRN.

Edit: So you are looking for narrow-bore foam tips? I can't really recommend one, but have you tried the hybrid-ones like the Symbio Orange, those have narrow bores while also retaining the stiffness of foam tips?


----------



## Tzennn

DunninLA said:


> re: Foam Tips with Narrow tip opening?
> 
> I have the C12 and would like to tame the lower treble and even a little bit the upper treble.
> 
> ...


I believe there is something like this from sony but don't know the name of it


----------



## DunninLA

Tzennn said:


> I believe there is something like this from sony but don't know the name of it


thanks, but from the pic that doesn't look like a norrow bore tip... it looks like a med/wide tip.


----------



## DunninLA (Feb 5, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> Have you tried Acoustune AET-08 or TRN Tips (red), I also have the C12s and those tips tamed down the treble for me. You can also try the Spinfits CP145, but it will not tame down the treble that much compared to Acoustune/TRN.
> 
> Edit: So you are looking for narrow-bore foam tips? I can't really recommend one, but have you tried the hybrid-ones like the Symbio Orange, those have narrow bores while also retaining the stiffness of foam tips?


yes, that's right, narrow bore/tip foam tips.

P.S. The Timeless came with the kBear equivalent of the Acoustune AET-08, and they really did tame some treble energy that I am sensitive to.   i want a foam tip that is narrow like the 08s for the C12 and another IEM I have that has too much in the 2k-5k range, for times when I can't EQ.


----------



## Tzennn

DunninLA said:


> thanks, but from the pic that doesn't look like a norrow bore tip... it looks like a med/wide tip.


This sony eptc-50


----------



## o0genesis0o

Hi everyone,

Have you ever wonder how the ancient ZSN Pro X actual performs in A/B tests against other well-known IEMs, without considering price bracket? I have finished and posted a review just like that. You can find it on head-fi.





Let me know if you have any comments, questions, or advice for my future reviews.


One more point: I'm thinking about getting one of those crazy multi-BA IEMs by KZ for review. Which multi-BA or hybrid of KZ would you recommend as a competitive option?

Thanks


----------



## IEMbiker

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Have you ever wonder how the ancient ZSN Pro X actual performs in A/B tests against other well-known IEMs, without considering price bracket? I have finished and posted a review just like that. You can find it on head-fi.
> 
> ...


Great review. I also find that then treble region of ZSN proX is too much. 

For multi BA I would suggest the AS12, the less talk about 6BA per side iem.


----------



## RCracer777

o0genesis0o said:


> One more point: I'm thinking about getting one of those crazy multi-BA IEMs by KZ for review. Which multi-BA or hybrid of KZ would you recommend as a competitive option?


For a multi-BA set KZ hasn't really made anyting better than the BA10. But as they're out of production and went on sale last 11.11 they are hard to find these days. 
The fit is uncofortable for most. But there are some simple tricks to alleviate this, the only extra thing you need is a pair of scissors.

As for a Hybrid my choice would be the ZAX, 7BA+1DD semi-openback monster that it is. It's KZ at it's finest; lots of drivers, comfortable shell, relatively cheap and a good tuning.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Tzennn said:


> I believe there is something like this from sony but don't know the name of it


The XM4 foam hybrids are called: EP-NI1000

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B096K56SGT

I prefer the foam hybrids from the XBA-N3 though, called EP-TC50:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/dp/B01LZ33A0I

(dont remember what the XM3 hybrid tip is but it could be the EP-TC50.)


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 5, 2022)

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Have you ever wonder how the ancient ZSN Pro X actual performs in A/B tests against other well-known IEMs, without considering price bracket? I have finished and posted a review just like that. You can find it on head-fi.
> 
> ...


ZSN pro X are not exactly old (vs just "pro" and original ZSN), and the X happened to be one of the least popular KZ creations , it was rumoured/supposed to be XuN DD, but happpened to be not, and the sound is fairly disjoint. Mine Pro X became a donor for parts - the only KZ out of my 30 or so.


----------



## Tzennn

Tzennn said:


> *I'm sorry CRA, i still like my Heart Mirror better*
> *CCA CRA** - Budget Audiophile Dream*​*There are 12 reviews on CCA CRA if you really want to see a full review, here just a quick review about them and comparison*
> *Mod:* so after 3 days wasting time, settle with triple stack: Steel mesh -- Stock filter -- Metal filter as it tame mid and make bass more pronouced. Another good mod is filterless + 2 high density foam but mid kinda have a hole so...
> *Setup:* TRN T2 + Kz white small tips something i don't know + Dac CX31993
> ...


My "short" review about CRA is here (ft DQ6, Heart Mirror)


----------



## RikudouGoku

lgcubana said:


> Here’s my quandary on the new DQ6S: from what I’ve read so far, the S appears to be the same hardware, with a re-tuning; so if that’s correct, can I achieve nearly the same results by EQing my DQ6 ?


Alright, finally got time and here is the PEQ preset for the stock DQ6, simulating the DQ6S: 

Low-shelf: 55hz, Q: 1.0, gain: 2db
Peak: 200hz, Q: 1.4, gain: -0.7db 
Peak: 2000hz, Q: 3.0, gain: -3.2db 
Peak: 5100hz, Q: 5, gain: -5db 
Peak: 8000hz, Q: 3, gain: -3db 
Peak 10 000hz, Q: 4, gain: -9db 
Preamp: -2db 

Still a bit airier and cleaner bass and more energetic treble on the DQ6, but is pretty close otherwise


----------



## Nimweth

IEMbiker said:


> Great review. I also find that then treble region of ZSN proX is too much.
> 
> For multi BA I would suggest the AS12, the less talk about 6BA per side iem.


Just ordered the AS12 a few weeks ago from Ali Express. I like all BA designs.


----------



## Jansvast

Anyone got a Wavelet EQ profile for a more neutral CRA?


----------



## Tzennn

Jansvast said:


> Anyone got a Wavelet EQ profile for a more neutral CRA?





tgx78 said:


> Here is my EQ profile for the CRA.


Even tho i want to lower the mid a little bit more but still a really good eq


----------



## DunninLA

RikudouGoku said:


> The XM4 foam hybrids are called: EP-NI1000
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B096K56SGT
> 
> ...


Thanks.  I don't know what "hybrid" means.  It doesn't seem to ever explain that in any listing I've seen.  I am looking for the typical foam that tends to suck some of the high frequencies out on the way to your ear canal.   The other problem I encountered is that those Sony Hybrids seem to be about $40 delivered, and buying $40 tips to put on $30 C12s to tame excessive highs just doesn't make any sense.  Most other foams other than Comply are available around or under $10 ... but they all seem to be med/wide bore.


----------



## nraymond

DunninLA said:


> Thanks.  I don't know what "hybrid" means.  It doesn't seem to ever explain that in any listing I've seen.  I am looking for the typical foam that tends to suck some of the high frequencies out on the way to your ear canal.   The other problem I encountered is that those Sony Hybrids seem to be about $40 delivered, and buying $40 tips to put on $30 C12s to tame excessive highs just doesn't make any sense.  Most other foams other than Comply are available around or under $10 ... but they all seem to be med/wide bore.


While I've never used them, I've seen people in the forum recommend the Tenmak hybrid tips (silicone inner sleeve, memory foam around it) which are $6.99 for six pairs in a range of sizes (you just want to make sure the earphone nozzle is 4.6mm-5.55mm in diameter for them to fit securely):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0828XP9RM/


----------



## RikudouGoku

DunninLA said:


> Thanks.  I don't know what "hybrid" means.  It doesn't seem to ever explain that in any listing I've seen.  I am looking for the typical foam that tends to suck some of the high frequencies out on the way to your ear canal.   The other problem I encountered is that those Sony Hybrids seem to be about $40 delivered, and buying $40 tips to put on $30 C12s to tame excessive highs just doesn't make any sense.  Most other foams other than Comply are available around or under $10 ... but they all seem to be med/wide bore.


A hybrid tip is usually when it is made out of silicone AND foam. Which is the case on those 2 Sony tips.
(FYI; the Sony EP-EX11 are also called Sony "Hybrids", but they are technically NOT hybrid tips as they are silicone only.)

If you want to reduce/dampen the upper-mids/treble, then I suggest you use tuning foams instead, that way you can use them together with whatever tip you are using atm.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002711483821.html

Remove the stock filter on the C12, then put those in them. 

OR, you can put these "500 mesh" on top of the stock filter if you want a slightly easier mod.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002875037663.html


Much cheaper than rebuying foam tips since they will inevitably disintegrate...


----------



## Kumonomukou

DunninLA said:


> Thanks.  I don't know what "hybrid" means.  It doesn't seem to ever explain that in any listing I've seen.  I am looking for the typical foam that tends to suck some of the high frequencies out on the way to your ear canal.   The other problem I encountered is that those Sony Hybrids seem to be about $40 delivered, and buying $40 tips to put on $30 C12s to tame excessive highs just doesn't make any sense.  Most other foams other than Comply are available around or under $10 ... but they all seem to be med/wide bore.


The hybrid is just the mix usage of foam and silicone design, nothing fancy. The economical way of getting them would be buying a xm3(good/open box) with fresh sets of tips. They won't make drastic change to your set up. Getting a seal with whatever tips in hand, and the perfect matchups are often coincidental!


----------



## dimazbaik

RikudouGoku said:


> Alright, finally got time and here is the PEQ preset for the stock DQ6, simulating the DQ6S:
> 
> Low-shelf: 55hz, Q: 1.0, gain: 2db
> Peak: 200hz, Q: 1.4, gain: -0.7db
> ...


Thank you hero, this is the modded one or stock?


----------



## WilliamCruz

KZ x HBB DQ6S

Does anyone know the diameter of the nozzle? Am thinking of getting it.


----------



## Tzennn

WilliamCruz said:


> KZ x HBB DQ6S
> 
> Does anyone know the diameter of the nozzle? Am thinking of getting it.


DQ6 is 4mm, i guess DQ6s have the same nozzle tho


----------



## RikudouGoku

dimazbaik said:


> Thank you hero, this is the modded one or stock?


stock DQ6


Tzennn said:


> DQ6 is 4mm, i guess DQ6s have the same nozzle tho


They do.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Tzennn said:


> DQ6 is 4mm, i guess DQ6s have the same nozzle tho


It's pretty narrow. So much so you can squeeze Etymotic and/or Westone tips on it.


----------



## WilliamCruz

RikudouGoku said:


> stock DQ6
> 
> They do.



thank you for clarifying


----------



## ChristianM

Any idea what's that blue red thing in this cable? are these wires or it's just for aesthetics? This cable is new and I wonder why it cost over $8.

https://www.kztws.com/collections/e...upgrade-earphone-cable?variant=42365407625467

KZ Headphones Silver plated upgrade cable​


----------



## Rocket222

ChristianM said:


> Any idea what's that blue red thing in this cable? are these wires or it's just for aesthetics? This cable is new and I wonder why it cost over $8.
> 
> https://www.kztws.com/collections/e...upgrade-earphone-cable?variant=42365407625467
> 
> KZ Headphones Silver plated upgrade cable​


The color is used to indicate which wire is signal( or positive) and which one is reference (or negative), solely for the manufacturing process.


----------



## Xenderos

Which KZ are most similar in characteristic to CA Andromeda? I know it is different price point but I’m just looking for some airy audio with similarities to Andro.


----------



## saldsald

Xenderos said:


> Which KZ are most similar in characteristic to CA Andromeda? I know it is different price point but I’m just looking for some airy audio with similarities to Andro.


Trn v90s


----------



## ChristianM

Anyone have this TRN TN 8 Core cable? is it heavy and thick as KZ 8 core gold/silver/copper and silver/blue cable? I have kz gold/silver/copper and I don't like it. Thanks

https://trn-audio.com/trn-tn.html


----------



## Tzennn

ChristianM said:


> Anyone have this TRN TN 8 Core cable? is it heavy and thick as KZ 8 core gold/silver/copper and silver/blue cable? I have kz gold/silver/copper and I don't like it. Thanks
> 
> https://trn-audio.com/trn-tn.html


T2 pro have better build than that fragile looking thing. My gk10 have similar cable to that and it looks cheap while T2 looks like luxury cable


----------



## yeboyi

Just got the KZ Zex Pro CRN. Timbre is odd. Haven't used IEM's for years. Chi fi wasn't big back then. Now coming from headphones, Zex pro doesn't sound right.


----------



## seanwee

saldsald said:


> Trn v90s


Having heard both I can say they sound nothing like each other. 

I didnt like the Andromedas, the V90s were more to my liking but the tuning could use some refinement.


----------



## saldsald

seanwee said:


> Having heard both I can say they sound nothing like each other.
> 
> I didnt like the Andromedas, the V90s were more to my liking but the tuning could use some refinement.


No way they can sound alike with the price difference but closest I can think of.


----------



## profusion

My 2 cents about CRA that I just got and my old DQ6. DQ6 still (for my taste) beats CRA with that smooth velvety analog timbre….


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

I got my AZ09 Pro last week and I must say it's damn good for a BT module. Connection is pretty stable, SQ is good, probably only drawback is that lacks power of TRN modules but that high performance mode is a beast! I'd take them any day over TRN modules.

Sounds supremely clean for a BT module. It is pretty close to wired performance. Overall a must have if you are unable to bag UTWS5 for whatever reasons.


----------



## myromeo (Feb 10, 2022)

yeboyi said:


> Just got the KZ Zex Pro CRN. Timbre is odd. Haven't used IEM's for years. Chi fi wasn't big back then. Now coming from headphones, Zex pro doesn't sound right.


Try this EQ, if you can. From crinacle himself.

8000Hz -5dB 5.0Q peak filter
12000Hz +10dB 4.0Q peak filter

Extra bass
150Hz +5dB low shelf (0.71Q)


----------



## TheVortex

Barusu Lamperouge said:


> I got my AZ09 Pro last week and I must say it's damn good for a BT module. Connection is pretty stable, SQ is good, probably only drawback is that lacks power of TRN modules but that high performance mode is a beast! I'd take them any day over TRN modules.
> 
> Sounds supremely clean for a BT module. It is pretty close to wired performance. Overall a must have if you are unable to bag UTWS5 for whatever reasons.


What does the high performance mode actually do?


----------



## yeboyi

myromeo said:


> Try this EQ, if you can. From crinacle himself.
> 
> 8000Hz -5dB 5.0Q peak filter
> 12000Hz +10dB 4.0Q peak filter
> ...


Thanks. It definitely helps. IEM's are ok in my opinion but honestly i was expecting better. Technicality difference is quite huge compared to 770 or Ananda. Boring one note bass and artificial sounding treble. You can immediately notice the loss of detail in the bass going from Ananda to 770 to Zex Pro.

Comfort wise it's uncomfortable in a different way so it's a toss up. With overhead headphones you feel the headband, clunkiness of the size, weight and heat. With IEM you feel more free but the pressure and blockage in your earcanal is fatiguing. Rotating between them best of both worlds 

If i listen a song i've never listened before, they sound ok.
If i listen familiar songs, i immediately notice the loss of sound quality compared to my overhead headphones.

End of the day, i don't think these are price/perf products. They sound like cheap as their price. They don't punch above their weight. Also for a CRN tuning marketed iem, these sound wrong out of the box.

So you pay $33 and you get the sound quality of $33. Maybe Moondrop Aria or Etymotic ER2SE can deliver more.


----------



## r31ya (Feb 11, 2022)

yeboyi said:


> Thanks. It definitely helps. IEM's are ok in my opinion but honestly i was expecting better. Technicality difference is quite huge compared to 770 or Ananda. Boring one note bass and artificial sounding treble. You can immediately notice the loss of detail in the bass going from Ananda to 770 to Zex Pro.
> 
> Comfort wise it's uncomfortable in a different way so it's a toss up. With overhead headphones you feel the headband, clunkiness of the size, weight and heat. With IEM you feel more free but the pressure and blockage in your earcanal is fatiguing. Rotating between them best of both worlds
> 
> ...


When Crin/tuner asked on improving Zex Pro, his answer is to change the driver which will drive the price up. unfortunately the goal of ZEXPro is cheap iem with good tuning, so he didn't change the driver despite the flaw the cheap driver causes.

He didn't make the same mistake with Midnight/Yume+ which when he tried to improve Yume technicallity, he immediately change one of the driver and change the shell.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

TheVortex said:


> What does the high performance mode actually do?


Reduces latency and activates more power. It is similar to high gain in dac/amps.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ DQ6S review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-x-hbb-dq6s.25672/reviews#review-27918

Rank: A

Default rec if you want something for rock/metal at this price range.   
But if you have a library similar to mine, the modded DQ6 is better.


----------



## 1clearhead

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ DQ6S review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-x-hbb-dq6s.25672/reviews#review-27918
> 
> Rank: A
> 
> ...


+1 ...I totally agree! 

I have both of them and I have been listening to them for several weeks now and the DQ6 is by far the better model. It's livelier, airer, and has better stage presence. When I compare them side to side, the DQ6s just sounds stale and dark in comparison.

Personally, if I would put my good name out there with any budget IEM's tuning, it will definitely be with either the DQ6, or the CRA's.

-Clear


----------



## Carrow

Back into the IEM world I go - been a few years, what current KZ models would you recommend? Higher-priced would be interesting!


----------



## Tzennn

Carrow said:


> Back into the IEM world I go - been a few years, what current KZ models would you recommend? Higher-priced would be interesting!


If you like rock, metal then DQ6, orchestra CCA CRA or some muti ba. I don't have much experience with higher priced KZ so. Zax is good aswell but i sold it already


----------



## InvisibleInk

Carrow said:


> Back into the IEM world I go - been a few years, what current KZ models would you recommend? Higher-priced would be interesting!


What kind of sound do you like? Neutral, V-shaped, warm, or airy? Something else?


----------



## Carrow

InvisibleInk said:


> What kind of sound do you like? Neutral, V-shaped, warm, or airy? Something else?


Nothing too bright - something midcentric but not exactly bass light would work best for me!


----------



## myromeo

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ DQ6S review: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-x-hbb-dq6s.25672/reviews#review-27918
> 
> Rank: A
> 
> ...


Spent last night listening to my ZEX Pro with your suggested EQ plus crins 150Hz low shelf boost, man they sound superb with this combo, great work!

I’ve been trying to create the feeling Avenged Sevenfold give performing ‘planets’ live and this is so far the absolute closest I’ve came. The things I look for are feeling the low rumble at start, depth as the sub bass wave ‘approaches’ you and slam as the instrumental kicks in. Vocals need to be forward and guitar needs to cut through like a knife. I’m still lacking a little of that slam, it’s just not forward enough on anything I’ve listened to. 

Considering your musical preference for rock and metal, what would you consider a worthy upgrade to the ZEX pro? Under £100/$130usd. Not looking to buy just yet, just curious where you would go next.


----------



## Tzennn

Carrow said:


> Nothing too bright - something midcentric but not exactly bass light would work best for me!


Well you should wait for more review on this but not too bright + mid centric + not bass light nor bass heavy ---> HBB Olina (Oxygen)


----------



## RikudouGoku

myromeo said:


> Spent last night listening to my ZEX Pro with your suggested EQ plus crins 150Hz low shelf boost, man they sound superb with this combo, great work!
> 
> I’ve been trying to create the feeling Avenged Sevenfold give performing ‘planets’ live and this is so far the absolute closest I’ve came. The things I look for are feeling the low rumble at start, depth as the sub bass wave ‘approaches’ you and slam as the instrumental kicks in. Vocals need to be forward and guitar needs to cut through like a knife. I’m still lacking a little of that slam, it’s just not forward enough on anything I’ve listened to.
> 
> Considering your musical preference for rock and metal, what would you consider a worthy upgrade to the ZEX pro? Under £100/$130usd. Not looking to buy just yet, just curious where you would go next.


I aint a fan of the ZP.

For rock/metal my rec progressions goes:

DQ6S -> Dunu Falcon Pro/LZ A7/Sony XBA-N3


----------



## InvisibleInk

Carrow said:


> Nothing too bright - something midcentric but not exactly bass light would work best for me!



Sub $50 USD -> Final Audio E3000 or KZ ZEX
Sub $100 USD -> Shozy Form 1.1
Sub $200 USD -> Shozy Form 1.4
Sub $500 USD -> Moondrop Blessing 2
Sub $1,000 -> Dunu SA6

I would have recommended the QKZ VK4 in sub $50 for you, but the follow-on version has changed dramatically for the worse. OG versions of the VK4, like mine, are increasingly difficult to find new.


----------



## Carrow (Feb 12, 2022)

InvisibleInk said:


> Sub $50 USD -> Final Audio E3000 or KZ ZEX
> Sub $100 USD -> Shozy Form 1.1
> Sub $200 USD -> Shozy Form 1.4
> Sub $500 USD -> Moondrop Blessing 2
> ...


A3000 worth the jump? wary about buying literally anything with fixed cables these days


----------



## InvisibleInk

Carrow said:


> A3000 worth the jump? wary about buying literally anything with fixed cables these days


I haven't experienced that one yet. I believe it was marketed towards those interested in spatial audio and gaming imaging, instead of those interested in high fidelity.


----------



## Carrow

InvisibleInk said:


> I haven't experienced that one yet. I believe it was marketed towards those interested in spatial audio and gaming imaging, instead of those interested in high fidelity.



think you mean these?


----------



## InvisibleInk

Carrow said:


> think you mean these?


That's their latest product in that vein. The A3000 was the probably the first. Can't say I've heard that one either. But if I was into gaming and VR, I might like the price a lot and buy into it.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Carrow said:


> wary about buying literally anything with fixed cables these days



I don't blame you for discarding the E3000 recommendation because of the fixed cable. Some fixed cables, though, are designed to last forever, like the strong one on the RHA MA750. RIP RHA


----------



## Carrow

InvisibleInk said:


> I don't blame you for discarding the E3000 recommendation because of the fixed cable. Some fixed cables, though, are designed to last forever, like the strong one on the RHA MA750. RIP RHA



on the off chance anything breaks MAYBE I can get stuff sent off for repair. re: A3000 - I'll keep my options open, will look into what I can get from the EU!


----------



## 1clearhead (Feb 12, 2022)

Sorry, wrong thread!


----------



## XerusKun

myromeo said:


> Spent last night listening to my ZEX Pro with your suggested EQ plus crins 150Hz low shelf boost, man they sound superb with this combo, great work!
> 
> I’ve been trying to create the feeling Avenged Sevenfold give performing ‘planets’ live and this is so far the absolute closest I’ve came. The things I look for are feeling the low rumble at start, depth as the sub bass wave ‘approaches’ you and slam as the instrumental kicks in. Vocals need to be forward and guitar needs to cut through like a knife. I’m still lacking a little of that slam, it’s just not forward enough on anything I’ve listened to.
> 
> Considering your musical preference for rock and metal, what would you consider a worthy upgrade to the ZEX pro? Under £100/$130usd. Not looking to buy just yet, just curious where you would go next.


Can you try this EQ presets for the ZP? I think its better than the crin's one.

Wavelet (GraphicEQ) : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ukoSP5MvWa8B6h7Ty9QKNADz5NVUAYLU/view?usp=sharing

PEQ (Import in Peace or any PEQ Software)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cHnJyfv2zUSEFH3PaOPIvqTeee-sWUeb/view?usp=sharing


----------



## myromeo

XerusKun said:


> Can you try this EQ presets for the ZP? I think its better than the crin's one.
> 
> Wavelet (GraphicEQ) : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ukoSP5MvWa8B6h7Ty9QKNADz5NVUAYLU/view?usp=sharing
> 
> ...


I’m not sure to be honest, I use UAPP with the tone boosters PEQ, I’ll have a play tomorrow see if I can import that but I’m not sure if it’s limited to 10 bands.

Wavelet and poweramp EQ don’t play too nicely with my Sony NW-A105. In fact poweramp doesn’t play at all!


----------



## Rocket222

Carrow said:


> Nothing too bright - something midcentric but not exactly bass light would work best for me!


This is exactly what I hear with my ZSX.  Your ears may vary though.


----------



## 4ceratops

Is there anyone here who has experience with GK GSE and could share it please?


----------



## 4ceratops

In particular, I wonder if there is a sonic similarity between the GK GSE and the CCA CKX (70€) besides the visual similarity. In fact, I find the CCA CKX to be very hearty and the GK GSE currently cost only about 25-30€.


----------



## atlatl (Feb 14, 2022)

QKZ AK6 Max impressions (one of which is KZ related) and questions:

Just got the QKZ AK6 Max (clear shell) delivered, and I had basically no expectations for these as I bought the set for the spare accessories. The 'bass' tips don't match the ones shown in customer reviews' photos, no red inner, just all black. Both balanced and bass tips are super thin and slightly grippy. *Compared to clear and black starlines, the tips are slightly taller and more egg shaped.* The cable is so thin that I'll get around to trying them out eventually but at least the mic shell is metal.

Sound impressions of these out of the box are on point with the rest of the sparse info on these; the AK6 Max is muffled and muddy as hell. And after listening to these for awhile they started to sound somewhat familiar, they have bass and treble isn't piercing, and for all other review categories they fall into slightly above average. So, I then applied AutoEQ (Neutron Player/KZ ZSN (rtings) and wow! It's a night and day difference! Mids and highs open up and are right there with the bass, and I have to say that these are a pleasant surprise for $5! Applying the ZSN-tuned harmon curve the elevates the AK6 Max from dumpster tier to decent daily drivers.

Now I want to continue to tweak the EQ on the AK6 Max but can't seem to find any squiglinks that have the frequency response graphs for these nor do I have the equipment to take this measurement. Can anyone help?


----------



## GabeM (Mar 10, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Final Audio E500.
> 
> It has great imaging and soundstage for binaural tracks, movies and gaming. Otherwise for non-binural tracks it sounds meh.
> 
> For $20 it is a good tool for movies IMHO. Plus it comes with Final E tips, which retail around $15 USD, so imagine it as buying the IEM themselves for $5.


I pretty much agree with ur views on the e500, and I just wanna add my own 2 cents. The soundstage is average for an iem, and imaging is pretty nice, fantastic at the price. My favorite part of them is their sound signature above about 200hz. The balance between the lower mids, mids, upper mids, lower treble, treble proper, and even upper treble extension is simply fantastic at the sub $50 price point, I would say competing up to $300. There are pretty much no peaks or valleys (to my ears), so they sound incredibly natural, resolving, and clear yet never ever fatiguing. I am VERY treble sensitive, and these are a home run for me with no need for eq. They aren't particularly detailed, but at this price and with this sound signature, u prolly wont care. My one and only nit pick with the e500 is the gradual roll off below about 200hz, leaving something to be desired in the bass. Don't get me wrong, they extend down to 30hz nicely, and u get a little sense of impact and texture, but the bass level is very much below neutral, especially as you go below about 90hz. (They don't handle eq very well, especially when adding bass.) But, for a pair of cheap buds to throw in my backpack and use in class, maybe a little music or youtube video every now and then, perrrrfectionnnnnn.


----------



## Nimweth

4ceratops said:


> In particular, I wonder if there is a sonic similarity between the GK GSE and the CCA CKX (70€) besides the visual similarity. In fact, I find the CCA CKX to be very hearty and the GK GSE currently cost only about 25-30€.


It is possible. The CKX has 4 x 30017 and 2 x 30095 BAs. The GSE has 2 x 30017 and 2 x 30095 BAs. So the GSE is a pared down version of the CKX in what looks like the same shell but with two fewer BAs. The DD appears to be the same as well.


----------



## lushmelody

atlatl said:


> QKZ AK6 Max impressions (one of which is KZ related) and questions:
> 
> Just got the QKZ AK6 Max (clear shell) delivered, and I had basically no expectations for these as I bought the set for the spare accessories. The 'bass' tips don't match the ones shown in customer reviews' photos, no red inner, just all black. Both balanced and bass tips are super thin and slightly grippy. *Compared to clear and black starlines, the tips are slightly taller and more egg shaped.* The cable is so thin that I'll get around to trying them out eventually but at least the mic shell is metal.
> 
> ...


Sadly QKZ is pretty much ignored. Their current line is all DD and some are actually interesting. Maybe not all of them are V? Who knows? It requires a good investment buying them all to compare. I think there are more than 10 new IEMs in their current line


----------



## Tzennn (Feb 15, 2022)

atlatl said:


> QKZ AK6 Max impressions (one of which is KZ related) and questions:
> 
> Just got the QKZ AK6 Max (clear shell) delivered, and I had basically no expectations for these as I bought the set for the spare accessories. The 'bass' tips don't match the ones shown in customer reviews' photos, no red inner, just all black. Both balanced and bass tips are super thin and slightly grippy. *Compared to clear and black starlines, the tips are slightly taller and more egg shaped.* The cable is so thin that I'll get around to trying them out eventually but at least the mic shell is metal.
> 
> ...


Yeah well i bought 2 Qkz which is VK4 and Zxt, instant regret, absolute waste of money and time. Mostly too much bass + trash resolution even if treble kinda nice, still completely garbage, don't waste your money on these cheap sh**, buy DQ6 if you can
Edit: i think VK4 is better than CRA tho but i haven't use VK4 for a long long time so


----------



## Echalon (Feb 15, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> Sadly QKZ is pretty much ignored. Their current line is all DD and some are actually interesting. Maybe not all of them are V? Who knows? It requires a good investment buying them all to compare. I think there are more than 10 new IEMs in their current line


Akros did a comparison of 5 QKZ iems on his YouTube channel and found them to be identical, just different shells. He found that a some of their lineup was different, but definitely check before buying to be sure you are not just getting a reskin.

It’s also worth noting that the VK4 you can buy now is not at all the same as the loved old version. Minor cosmetic differences, and more importantly nothing like the same sound.


----------



## lushmelody

Echalon said:


> Akros did a comparison of 5 QKZ iems on his YouTube channel and found them to be identical, just different shells. He found that a some of their lineup was different, but definitely check before buying to be sure you are not just getting a reskin.
> 
> It’s also worth noting that the VK4 you can buy now is not at all the same as the loved old version. Minor cosmetic differences, and more importantly nothing like the same sound.


So weird how they waste manufacturing and don't try to do better. Is it that hard to employ a professional tuner? It would cause so much more financial return in unit sales


----------



## atlatl

lushmelody said:


> Sadly QKZ is pretty much ignored. Their current line is all DD and some are actually interesting. Maybe not all of them are V? Who knows? It requires a good investment buying them all to compare. I think there are more than 10 new IEMs in their current line


ya, don't plan on investing more on IEMs at this price point; just wanted to squeeze some performance out of the AK6 Max. at least i can wing it off of the product listing.


----------



## FLN Luco

I plan to use a bluetooth EIM to study. That means I'm going to use it with calm piano music at very low volumes, so *I need as little "background noise" as possible*.

I think in some options:
- *KZ AZ09 PRO* + Moondrop Kato
- *KZ AZ10* + Moondrop Kato
- Samsung Galaxy *Buds Pro*
- Other solutions

What is the best option (considering only the "*background noise*")?


----------



## 4ceratops

FLN Luco said:


> I plan to use a bluetooth EIM to study. That means I'm going to use it with calm piano music at very low volumes, so *I need as little "background noise" as possible*.
> 
> I think in some options:
> - *KZ AZ09 PRO* + Moondrop Kato
> ...



Sonically, definitely the first option, except that the KZ adapter cannot be connected to the Moondrop Kato (qdc/simple 2pin) terminals without modification.


----------



## Tzennn

FLN Luco said:


> I plan to use a bluetooth EIM to study. That means I'm going to use it with calm piano music at very low volumes, so *I need as little "background noise" as possible*.
> 
> I think in some options:
> - *KZ AZ09 PRO* + Moondrop Kato
> ...


Az09 pro + all ba option like as12 as16 or ast maybe


----------



## Kumonomukou

lushmelody said:


> So weird how they waste manufacturing and don't try to do better. Is it that hard to employ a professional tuner? It would cause so much more financial return in unit sales


Look at the selling prices, ultra budget market is their target. People will buy them take or leave it. It might not worth the effort for a change, and might as well creating new brands for mid-tier products.


----------



## tranceenergy (Feb 17, 2022)

Which KZ model would be the right upgrade for me after ZSN Pro (now broken) ?
Used it for 2 years and didn't have any complaints about harsh treble/sibilance etc.
Listening mainly to trance and techno.
I also will use it for music production / mixing sometimes, and some casual gaming.

Should i go for newer models like ZEX or DQ6, any other good options from older KZ models ?
Or just play it safe and buy the ZSN PRO again ? (Even though there is this new version, ZSN PRO X)

Appreciate your help, thank you


----------



## Tzennn

tranceenergy said:


> Which KZ model would be the right upgrade for me after ZSN Pro (now broken) ?
> Used it for 2 years and didn't have any complaints about harsh treble/sibilance etc.
> Listening mainly to trance and techno.
> I also will use it for music production / mixing sometimes, and some casual gaming.
> ...


CRA is great with EDM, both Zex and DQ6 mostly for rock listener. If you can afford Heart Mirror + vent tape then that could be the endgame for you, maybe


----------



## tranceenergy

Thank you for your answer, yet CRA and most other brands are not available in my country.
ZSN Pro - ZSN Pro X
ZST X - DQ6
ZEX - ES4
EDX - EDX Pro
ZSR - ZS5 - ZSA

Only these models are available here and within my budget, all are priced more or less the same. Which one should i go for ?
Thanks.


----------



## Tzennn

tranceenergy said:


> Thank you for your answer, yet CRA and most other brands are not available in my country.
> ZSN Pro - ZSN Pro X
> ZST X - DQ6
> ZEX - ES4
> ...


Then maybe edx pro - zsn pro. If you can find CCA CRA, buy it


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 17, 2022)

tranceenergy said:


> Thank you for your answer, yet CRA and most other brands are not available in my country.
> ZSN Pro - ZSN Pro X
> ZST X - DQ6
> ZEX - ES4
> ...


Rather not ZSN pro X - it is mostly agreed to be more "miss than hit".
Good ZSN pro is still good 
New "magnetostats", ZEX pro being the best, are more of an acquired taste, but may work.
DQ6 are good.
I would not go for single DDs if you like ZSN pro.


----------



## r31ya (Feb 17, 2022)

tranceenergy said:


> Thank you for your answer, yet CRA and most other brands are not available in my country.
> ZSN Pro - ZSN Pro X
> ZST X - DQ6
> ZEX - ES4
> ...


If you can get ZexPro/CRN get Zexpro/CRN.

But among those, i only have tried ZS5, ZSN, DQ6, and og ZST.

I easily recommends out to get DQ6.
Bass have some texture and better quality than old "mere thumpy" KZ bass.
Vocals is pretty good without going sibilant
Treble while have some extension is not metallic like the rest of those as this one use 3DD.
Its the new generation of KZ sound sig, that you should try it.


----------



## tranceenergy

Thank you for responses guys, really appreciate it.
I gotta buy something today, as i don't have any earphone to use at the moment.
I think it will be a toss-up between DQ6 and ZSN Pro.
Are DQ6's comfortable, because looks like they have fins on the shell ? And are they only good with rock music ? EDM, no?

Btw, ZEX Pro is available but priced as twice as much compared to the others.


----------



## seanwee

tranceenergy said:


> Thank you for responses guys, really appreciate it.
> I gotta buy something today, as i don't have any earphone to use at the moment.
> I think it will be a toss-up between DQ6 and ZSN Pro.
> Are DQ6's comfortable, because looks like they have fins on the shell ? And are they only good with rock music ? EDM, no?
> ...


I would get the DQ6 in your place if price is a concern.


----------



## Tzennn (Feb 17, 2022)

tranceenergy said:


> Thank you for responses guys, really appreciate it.
> I gotta buy something today, as i don't have any earphone to use at the moment.
> I think it will be a toss-up between DQ6 and ZSN Pro.
> Are DQ6's comfortable, because looks like they have fins on the shell ? And are they only good with rock music ? EDM, no?
> ...


I wouldn't recommend dq6 since fit is a concern aswell, my ears hurt after 2 hours. if you want best for edm you should looking for DD iem which have good bass slam and treble extension, both CRA, EDX pro have that. Or try with QKZ if you can find one, they kinda low-res but good tuning for EDM


----------



## tranceenergy

The only QKZ i can buy is VK4, but it's the updated version. Original one is sold-out.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

tranceenergy said:


> The only QKZ i can buy is VK4, but it's the updated version. Original one is sold-out.


By the dq6 it's very, very good. Fit isn't an issue. The fin is fine. It makes them very secure. They are a perfectly sized iem for average sized ears. I would also recommend the BA10. If you can find it. It is a superb iem. Excellent separation. The dq6 stage might be a bit bigger. Both of these put my old ZSR's to shame. They really expose it's recessed vocals. The DQ6 and BA10 are the best KZs I have heard and I have owned 6 in total.


----------



## Nimweth (Feb 17, 2022)

Anycolouryoulike said:


> By the dq6 it's very, very good. Fit isn't an issue. The fin is fine. It makes them very secure. They are a perfectly sized iem for average sized ears. I would also recommend the BA10. If you can find it. It is a superb iem. Excellent separation. The dq6 stage might be a bit bigger. Both of these put my old ZSR's to shame. They really expose it's recessed vocals. The DQ6 and BA10 are the best KZs I have heard and I have owned 6 in total.


+1 for the BA10. The best KZ so far. I have had 15 different KZ models.


----------



## tranceenergy

I really want to try out the DQ6's but the fit really worries me, saw many people complain about the fin start hurting their ear after a while.
Comfort really matters to me as i will be using this for long hours.
Sadly i don't have the chance to try them first, it is not possible to return earphones after the package is opened.
As i don't want to buy another ZSN Pro, i will probably get a ZST X or an EDX Pro just to try a different KZ model.
(BA10 looks nice but it is sold-out as well.)
Thank you all for your kind responses.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

Nimweth said:


> +1 for the BA10. The best KZ so far. I have had 15 different KZ models.


I just the dq6 today. I am slow to buy iem's. The hype train chugs endlessly on. I tend to wait and see what is still standing six months later. Took a chance on the BA10s after my Dee tee sixes cable packed in. (Great soundstage. But Crinacle is right. They do sound a bit off.)
They blew all my previous purchases out of the water. I had heard so much about the dq6 tuning being a new departure that I was expecting big things. It is good. Really airy which I love. But so too is the BA10. They sound very similar to my ears. Vocals aren't as recessed as my other  kz's and Pink Floyd don't sound shouty.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Feb 17, 2022)

tranceenergy said:


> I really want to try out the DQ6's but the fit really worries me, saw many people complain about the fin start hurting their ear after a while.
> Comfort really matters to me as i will be using this for long hours.
> Sadly i don't have the chance to try them first, it is not possible to return earphones after the package is opened.
> As i don't want to buy another ZSN Pro, i will probably get a ZST X or an EDX Pro just to try a different KZ model.
> ...


DQ6 are definitely much more fit-friendly that large squary BA10 with the sharp ridges to make it decisively least fit-friendly IEM that I have out of 70+ and 20+ KZ (a beautiful shell and good sound though).

If ZS10 pro fit the bill - you may consider it. ZSX and ZAX are very good as well - ZSN pro + more resolution. If you see AS12 on sale (it was sold at $30 recently), it may be another contender.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

PhonoPhi said:


> DQ6 are definitely much more fit-friendly that large squary BA10 with the sharp ridges to make it decisively least fit-friendly IEM that I have out of 70+ and 20+ KZ (a beautiful shell and good sound though).
> 
> If ZS10 pro fit the bill - you may consider it. ZSX and ZAX are very good as well - ZSN pro + more resolution. If you see AS12 on sale (it was sold at $30 recently), it may be another contender.


As12 are very interesting. They seem to have received very little critical attention. Interested to see what any recent purchasers make of them.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Anycolouryoulike said:


> As12 are very interesting. They seem to have received very little critical attention. Interested to see what any recent purchasers make of them.


The treble BAs of AS12 are really potent and heaviy dampened. I have removed the filters in my first AS12 and love them (they are not for treble whiners )
Recently, I got a second pair of AS12, and surprisingy liked it "as is", perhaps a newer version. So highly recommended.
If you prefer warmer - AS10, if more treble - AS16.


----------



## tranceenergy

Final decision 
DQ6 or ZST X (os ZSN Pro) for mainly electronic music ?
or
Wait a bit longer and get ZSX or ZS10 (both cost twice as much, will they worth it?)


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Just starting to dip my toes into the affordable iem world. I have the CRN Zex Pro and Tripowin Lea. The KZs are far better, really liking the soundstage on these. What’s the next logical upgrade?


----------



## Tzennn

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Just starting to dip my toes into the affordable iem world. I have the CRN Zex Pro and Tripowin Lea. The KZs are far better, really liking the soundstage on these. What’s the next logical upgrade?


Aria - Dusk. They sounds very close to each other but i have fit problem with Dusk and CRN


----------



## yaps66

Tzennn said:


> Aria - Dusk. They sounds very close to each other but i have fit problem with Dusk and CRN


I'm hearing good things about the Tripowin Olina.


----------



## Tzennn

yaps66 said:


> I'm hearing good things about the Tripowin Olina.


But it's entirely diffrent from Zex pro so


----------



## myromeo

Really loving my KZ x CRN, with @RikudouGoku EQ plus a bass boosted low-shelf they’re near my perfect tuning. Soundstage is sufficiently wide for my liking, instrument separation decent and clarity good enough for me. 

Source is Sony NW-A105, Topping NX1s modified amp (see signature), NiceHCK C16-1 16 core silver plated copper cable and UAPP/Tidal. I’m using Spinfit CP145 Tips too. 

Music wise I mostly listen to punk, rock and metal with the odd acoustic thrown in. NOFX, Avenged sevenfold, Halestorm etc. 

My EQ settings are:

Low-shelf: 105hz, Q: 0.71, gain: +3dB
Peak: 4200hz, Q: 2, gain: -3dB
Peak: 7000hz, Q: 5, gain: -3dB
Peak: 8000hz, Q: 3, gain: -5dB
High-shelf:11 000hz, Q: 0.7, gain: 3dB


----------



## Jansvast

I foam modded my CRN yesterday because the factory filters clogged, despite them and my ears being cleaned regularly...

I must say I'm really liking the foam mod. I no longer feel the need for EQ anymore. I feel like it fixed the treble, no more sibilance and weird timbre, sounds smooth and natural, but not dull. It also got just a bit warmer.

The mod: remove stock nozzle fitlers and cut a around 5x5x9mm strip of open cell packaging foam, and then a smaller piece of finer open cell foam, maybe 5.5x5.5x5mm and insert into the nozzle (compress and roll the foam up for easier insertion). You can fine tune it to your liking by using different lengths and witdths of foam for different dampening characteristics. I used just enough foam so it is not very compressed, but still fits snug inside. Coarser foam goes first.

If you decide to try this mod, I would love to see the graph!


----------



## Tzennn (Feb 20, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> By the way if you like rock and you have CRA around, you can try this.
> Low: 100hz    0.9   -1db
> Low: 200hz    0.8  3db
> Low: 500hz    0.6  -3db
> ...


Don't know if this is needed but if you have same library as mine, you might like this


----------



## Elvis Costello

I still love my KZ ZS10 Pro. I know that they've supposedly been superseded by a few models now, but I still use them regularly.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Elvis Costello said:


> I still love my KZ ZS10 Pro. I know that they've supposedly been superseded by a few models now, but I still use them regularly.


ZS10 pro are definitely unique, most cheerful KZ's V!

C10 pro could not do it with a better DD.

ZSX and ZAX are more refined in treble, and are some steps forward, but again ZS10 pro remain unique!


----------



## Elvis Costello

PhonoPhi said:


> ZSX and ZAX are more refined in treble, and are some steps forward, but again ZS10 pro remain unique!


I have tried both the ZSX and ZAX. The ZS10 Pro is still the one I come back to.


----------



## Carrow

speaking of, got a pair of ZS10 Pros arriving tomorrow!


----------



## Caipirina

I still could use some help with my KZ VX10 … I received a left replacement bud which works, but does not connect to the right one. Is that even possible? Don’t they have to be paired / hand shaken at the factory? Can left / right buds be mixed & matched? (In case of AirPods I am pretty sure they can’t) … I went through all kinds of hoops and resets. Now the seller is saying I can only have the Bluetooth on on ONE device for the handshake to work. HOW? I can see all my neighbors devices. It is close to impossible to find a spot with no BT signal. And not even sure this would work. Anyone any other ideas? I tried on both Android & iOS


----------



## JazzVinyl

Carrow said:


> speaking of, got a pair of ZS10 Pros arriving tomorrow!



I have the same, inbound.  But probably weeks away, yet


----------



## JazzVinyl

Elvis Costello said:


> I still love my KZ ZS10 Pro. I know that they've supposedly been superseded by a few models now, but I still use them regularly.


How about that!  Elvis Costello in the forums!  How is Diana?  And the twins?

LOL

I keep hearing from others that the ZS10 Pro are the pinnacle as well.  

I keep going back to a pair that are not spoken much about around here:  the KZ AS06.  Triple BA's per side, they do many things perfectly for me, sonically.  They also much fit better than the others.

CCA CRA fit is horrid for me. Might be nice if one could find a tip that works for them.  Seems the nozzle is shorter, and a smaller diameter than everything else I have from KZ.


----------



## Carrow

Carrow said:


> speaking of, got a pair of ZS10 Pros arriving tomorrow!


narrator: _they did not, in fact, arrive tomorrow_

wonder if I'll have them to go to work with on Tuesday?


----------



## SartWaiting

JazzVinyl said:


> Might be nice if one could find a tip that works for them.


I haven't found the best one yet. I sat down well with KZ Starline and these:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_AEyxqR


----------



## Jansvast

JazzVinyl said:


> CCA CRA fit is horrid for me. Might be nice if one could find a tip that works for them.  Seems the nozzle is shorter, and a smaller diameter than everything else I have from KZ.


In terms of fit I find inverted and shortened stock tips very comfortable and I get a good seal


----------



## myromeo

Just jumping in the ZS10 Pro hype train. Bought a pair last year as my first ever IEM, I still use them regularly. 

These days I use them with the AZ09 Bluetooth adapter and my iPhone, great pairing! Not as critical as the ZEX Pro but certainly a fun sound and very enjoyable for casual listening.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

myromeo said:


> Just jumping in the ZS10 Pro hype train. Bought a pair last year as my first ever IEM, I still use them regularly.
> 
> These days I use them with the AZ09 Bluetooth adapter and my iPhone, great pairing! Not as critical as the ZEX Pro but certainly a fun sound and very enjoyable for casual listening.


I had the old Bluetooth adapter. The cable. It had Bluetooth 5.0 Worked fine for about four months. Terrible constant hiss was what finally turned me off it. Are the newer adapters any better?


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

myromeo said:


> Just jumping in the ZS10 Pro hype train. Bought a pair last year as my first ever IEM, I still use them regularly.
> 
> These days I use them with the AZ09 Bluetooth adapter and my iPhone, great pairing! Not as critical as the ZEX Pro but certainly a fun sound and very enjoyable for casual listening.


I had the old Bluetooth adapter. The cable. It had Bluetooth 5.0 Worked fine for about four months. Terrible constant hiss was what finally turned me off it. Are the newer adapters any better


----------



## 4ceratops

Yes, AZ09 PRO is without noticeble hiss.


----------



## myromeo

Anycolouryoulike said:


> I had the old Bluetooth adapter. The cable. It had Bluetooth 5.0 Worked fine for about four months. Terrible constant hiss was what finally turned me off it. Are the newer adapters any better


AZ09 has very low hiss but still some. They sound great tho, plenty power for the ZS10 Pro


----------



## Carrow

KZ ZS10 Pro update: probably lost in transit, you hate to zee it.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Carrow said:


> KZ ZS10 Pro update: probably lost in transit, you hate to zee it.


Sorry to hear that. The ZS10 Pro continues to prove a popular seller.


----------



## Carrow

InvisibleInk said:


> Sorry to hear that. The ZS10 Pro continues to prove a popular seller.


not like it was even coming from AliExpress or wherever - it was posted out from Dublin on Thursday (private seller on the other side of the country), and tomorrow is 6 days. may need to ask for a refund. I can probably just put that back into getting a different pair of in-ears ig?


----------



## Twowheeler

I've been somewhat happy with my DQ6 with one problem: They seem so incredibly sensitive. Having them connected to my phone makes for a constant noise on low volume. On PC it seems worse. What can I do against this? Do KZ's like the terminator have the same problem?


----------



## baskingshark

Twowheeler said:


> I've been somewhat happy with my DQ6 with one problem: They seem so incredibly sensitive. Having them connected to my phone makes for a constant noise on low volume. On PC it seems worse. What can I do against this? Do KZ's like the terminator have the same problem?



The DQ6 has a reported sensitivity of 112dB/mW which is considered on the higher side, this can lead to hiss with sources with poor noise floor control.

There are a few ways about this:
1) Get a better source that has better noise floor. Even a cheap dongle like Tempotec Sonata HD Pro (~$20ish USD) can achieve this. PCs usually have not so good implementation of DACs so some will generate noise and hiss with sensitive IEMs.

2) Impedance adapter. This may skew the sound signature though.
There are more expensive adapters such as the IEMatch that don't mess with the sound signature, but they are pretty expensive and may cost more than the DQ6, so is that putting the cart before the horse?

3) In line volume control -> a few bucks from electronic shops. They can skew the sound signature too.


----------



## Carrow

the eagle has (belatedly) landed! disappointed to see KZ still suck when it comes to accessories. Starline tips impossible to fit somehow so I put some JVC foams on them. impressions soon!


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

God the DQ6 are good. The way it swirls music around you,  effortlessly. I have used them non stop for the last week nearly. To think of the money I wasted on headphones before I discovered chi fi........

Very close call between DQ6 and the BA10 for the best kz I have heard. I have been A-Bing them with Frank Ocean's Nike's. The dq6 stage is larger. But the BA10 has more dynamism and really poised separation. Tough, tough call between them.


----------



## Elvis Costello

Carrow said:


> the eagle has (belatedly) landed! disappointed to see KZ still suck when it comes to accessories. Starline tips impossible to fit somehow so I put some JVC foams on them. impressions soon!


Yeah, the KZ eartips aren't great.
I was lukewarm towards the ZS10 Pro until I put Spinfits on them. That made them so easy to fit and get a seal every time I put them in.
That helped elevate them from "meh' to "wow, these are actually pretty good" for me. They became my go-to IEMs for when I want something to plug into my iPod or my phone just to enjoy a few albums.


----------



## Carrow

Elvis Costello said:


> Yeah, the KZ eartips aren't great.
> I was lukewarm towards the ZS10 Pro until I put Spinfits on them. That made them so easy to fit and get a seal every time I put them in.
> That helped elevate them from "meh' to "wow, these are actually pretty good" for me. They became my go-to IEMs for when I want something to plug into my iPod or my phone just to enjoy a few albums.


they have, in turn, been swapped out for JVC Spiral Dots, so I'm gonna put these through their paces tomorrow with the stock cable!


----------



## saldsald

How many brave souls are gonna get the ZES?



It is on Taobao now at the price of Rmb128.


----------



## RikudouGoku

saldsald said:


> How many brave souls are gonna get the ZES?
> 
> 
> 
> It is on Taobao now at the price of Rmb128.


I go with the CRA instead.


----------



## jananan78

yeah I might just wait for a zes pro or zes pro x if one comes along because I already have the CRA too. 

the CRA is kinda improving after extensive burning in and much smoother.

somehow I find myself  going back to edx pro rather than zex pro because once I have heard the tonal flaw I seem to be looking for it in every song rather than just enjoying the song. 

edx pro is just laid back if you do not listen to bassy songs or eq it.


----------



## Elvis Costello

Carrow said:


> they have, in turn, been swapped out for JVC Spiral Dots, so I'm gonna put these through their paces tomorrow with the stock cable!


Did yours come with the new type of cable?
My ZS10 Pro came with the old style cable that looks like an old rusty chain for a sink plug. I replaced it with an aftermarket cable.


----------



## Carrow

Elvis Costello said:


> Did yours come with the new type of cable?
> My ZS10 Pro came with the old style cable that looks like an old rusty chain for a sink plug. I replaced it with an aftermarket cable.



came with the rusty sink plug looking cable and a bonus TRN T3 silver cable I haven't used yet!


----------



## steely333

Weird CRA sound and cables

To those noticing strange detailing on the CRA, switch out to the common brown KZ  woven cable, such as from ES4.  This evens out the apparent CRA response to me.

Strange thing is the CRA parallel copper cable brings both ES4 and ZS10 pro performance up considerably (I cut the sides off the pin hood to fit it on ES4).

Not looking for a cable war.  Just note woven and parallel configurations trade lower capacitance for lower inductance values respectively at the same length.  This is more significant than comparing small resistance values of cables.  You wont see a much difference in frequency response plots.  The change is likely in transient response that you hear.


----------



## PhonoPhi

steely333 said:


> Weird CRA sound and cables
> 
> To those noticing strange detailing on the CRA, switch out to the common brown KZ  woven cable, such as from ES4.  This evens out the apparent CRA response to me.
> 
> ...


Sorry to burst your bubble - the difference in capacitance and inductance should be perfectly measurable by frequency plots.
If the difference is not in the audible range (and let's extend it to 40-50 kHz for the sake of '"HiFi") - how would it matter? 
No documentable difference - no effect.
Otherwise, it is everyone's game to claim that their snake oil is the most oily of all


----------



## steely333

Digitize a electrical voltage of a short musical signal at 96 kHz into the iem fed with different cables you will see a difference in signal vs time history.


----------



## Jansvast

steely333 said:


> Digitize a electrical voltage of a short musical signal at 96 kHz into the iem fed with different cables you will see a difference in signal vs time history.


Man, do you even know what you are saying? Even if it made any sense how would a 96kHz signal matter in an iem...


----------



## steely333

Digitize the signal at 96 kHz.

Anyone try the cable switches?


----------



## jananan78

but i think no iem can produce 96khz and even if any can, humans can't hear up to that frequency. correct me if I'm writing.


----------



## Nimweth

jananan78 said:


> but i think no iem can produce 96khz and even if any can, humans can't hear up to that frequency. correct me if I'm writing.


I think the 96kHz reference is about the sample rate of the recording and not the frequency response of the IEMs.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 1, 2022)

My initial reaction to the Crinacle KZ-ZEX Pro is much the same as with all IEM's fresh out of the box, Yikes!! 

It took more than a full week of "burn-in" - I run several headphone amps fed from my Topping D90, and I clip up the wires on the new IEM and plug it in to one of the amps I'm not currently connected to myself, so as they listen to media 24/7, those new IEMs on Burn-in are listening to the same things I am listening to, breaking them in with my favorite sounds.  I find that works better than a "noise" burn-in, IMHO.

And, now the Crinacle KZ ZEX Pro sounds great, and I am very happy to have it, thanks to Hifigo.com - I encouraged them to continue to carry inexpensive KZ IEMs as part of their inventory, and they've picked up the Crinacle Tunings, and I think that is awesome for them to show such support for low priced IEMs.

Kz X Crinacle Crn (Zex Pro) Hifi In-Ear Monitors
https://hifigo.com/products/kz-x-crinacle-crn?variant=42205619257583

Mine came wrapped with a Hifigo logo shrink wrap, IDK if they all come that way, but I thought that was a nice touch too.

The difference between out of the box sound and burned in sound is huge.  Out of the box it was way too sharp, but now all that hyper detail is tamed into a sound I really enjoy.

I haven't heard the original IEM's out of the Crinacle tuning releases, but as for the KZ-ZEX Pro, I enjoy the end result - and it is awesome KZ keeps prices down so low!


----------



## XerusKun

hmscott said:


> My initial reaction to the Crinacle KZ-ZEX Pro is much the same as with all IEM's fresh out of the box, Yikes!!
> 
> It took more than a full week of "burn-in" - I run several headphone amps fed from my Topping D90, and I clip up the wires on the new IEM and plug it in to one of the amps I'm not currently connected to myself, so as I listen to media 24/7, those new IEMs on Burn-in are listening to the same things I am listening to, breaking them in with my favorite sounds.  I find that works better than a "noise" burn-in, IMHO.
> 
> ...


Have you tried EQ-ing it though?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FKqoOCWt82aDEAMH1BnFpybCsIk1uIlO?usp=sharing

P.S I recommend the Elysian or the IER Z1R EQ.


----------



## hmscott (Mar 1, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> Have you tried EQ-ing it though?
> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FKqoOCWt82aDEAMH1BnFpybCsIk1uIlO?usp=sharing
> 
> P.S I recommend the Elysian or the IER Z1R EQ.


I've used APO EQ on Windows, but then I cannot use those settings on my FiiO M15, or on my other devices without similar EQ flexibllity.

I don't mind having headphones or IEM's that don't sound like others, or have "gaps" in the normal full frequency range support at equal dB, these differences lead to interesting headphone/IEM personalities and characteristics that I find makes switching headphones far more interesting than having all the same EQ'd frequency profile.

When I find a headphone/IEM I like - heard without EQ - I know I'll have the same reaction to that headphone/IEM with the same enjoyment on all of my compatible devices, it is like multiplying the enjoyable characteristics of all of my equipment, like having a library of different sounding music.


----------



## jananan78

Nimweth said:


> I think the 96kHz reference is about the sample rate of the recording and not the frequency response of the IEMs.


that makes more sense


----------



## Nimweth

jananan78 said:


> that makes more sense


Although the human ear cannot hear much beyond 20kHz, higher frequency tones do modulate lower frequencies. This produces harmonics which change the timbre of instruments. This is why Hi-Res audio has a range up to 40kHz. You may see the Hi-Res certification on the packaging of IEMs.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Nimweth said:


> Although the human ear cannot hear much beyond 20kHz, higher frequency tones do modulate lower frequencies. This produces harmonics which change the timbre of instruments. This is why Hi-Res audio has a range up to 40kHz. You may see the Hi-Res certification on the packaging of IEMs.


Hi-Res audio makes my ear hairs twitch


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Small status update: 2 pairs of my KZ are suffering. One missing side on my NRA after getting pulled off it's wire ... lost somewhere in the house. Possibly lost forever to the ... dog. The hunt for evidence continues. 

And my beloved ZEX Pros - the metal cover on the left side popped off. Looks like it can be glued back in easily enough but I haven't listened to them in a long bit. CRA has become my daily driver and they keep getting better with eartime. 

Meanwhile, I had a long fling with a pair of Tri Meteors and really enjoyed them. Review posted up on the showcase. Hope everyone has been well and keeping safe. 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tri-meteor.25510/reviews


----------



## jananan78

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Small status update: 2 pairs of my KZ are suffering. One missing side on my NRA after getting pulled off it's wire ... lost somewhere in the house. Possibly lost forever to the ... dog. The hunt for evidence continues.
> 
> And my beloved ZEX Pros - the metal cover on the left side popped off. Looks like it can be glued back in easily enough but I haven't listened to them in a long bit. CRA has become my daily driver and they keep getting better with eartime.
> 
> ...


yes i agree the CRA does improve with long term usage. 
I can't seem to unhear the wrong sounding tone of the zex pro although it does sound technically better with some songs. 

i have also compared DAC with mqa unfolding and dac without mqa unfolding - and I feel mqa is overrated.


----------



## steely333

Nimweth said:


> Although the human ear cannot hear much beyond 20kHz, higher frequency tones do modulate lower frequencies. This produces harmonics which change the timbre of instruments. This is why Hi-Res audio has a range up to 40kHz. You may see the Hi-Res certification on the packaging of IEMs.


For 96 kHz  (or 96k samples per second)sampling the resolution of frequencies is 48 kHz.  The reason for the recc for 96 kHz on sampling of an analog signal is this typically the max capability of typical consumer PCs is that 96 ksps if I am not mistaken.  This will provide your best time resolution.  Of course, adjust your gain on your acquisition to capture the signal reasonably within the highest amount resolution (volts/bit).  From there you can compare different cables signal and compare against the digital source inputs time signature.

Years back at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, a British non-cable manufacturer (don't recall who, or year) had a presentation that did this process which showed differences between cables, amps, etc.  The main problem for final utility of such a procedure is that your going to have to figure out which differences make the preferable sound.  If your hearing is deficient, say below that of hearing impaired Zeos and DMS, such studies could be of academic interest to know what the others are hearing.  This clip is not from that presentation.


----------



## RikudouGoku

steely333 said:


> For 96 kHz  (or 96k samples per second)sampling the resolution of frequencies is 48 kHz.  The reason for the recc for 96 kHz on sampling of an analog signal is this typically the max capability of typical consumer PCs is that 96 ksps if I am not mistaken.  This will provide your best time resolution.  Of course, adjust your gain on your acquisition to capture the signal reasonably within the highest amount resolution (volts/bit).  From there you can compare different cables signal and compare against the digital source inputs time signature.
> 
> Years back at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, a British non-cable manufacturer (don't recall who, or year) had a presentation that did this process which showed differences between cables, amps, etc.  The main problem for final utility of such a procedure is that your going to have to figure out which differences make the preferable sound.  If your hearing is deficient, say below that of hearing impaired Zeos and DMS, such studies could be of academic interest to know what the others are hearing.  This clip is not from that presentation.


USB cables either successfully transmit the bits or they do NOT. NOTHING in between that will affect the results...


----------



## steely333

RikudouGoku said:


> USB cables either successfully transmit the bits or they do NOT. NOTHING in between that will affect the results...


Except timing (jitter)


----------



## RikudouGoku

🤦‍♂️


----------



## Jansvast

Hmm, will the CRA also play sound with a disconnected driver 🤔

I see you've also been lurking in the server


----------



## hmscott (Mar 2, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> 🤦‍♂️


Those would be far more interesting with listening reports before and after disabling the drivers.  I'd like to know if listening matches the measurements.  I'd be very surprised to find that the "missing" drivers don't have an audible effect with some music genres.

Measurements don't always match listening reality.  This might be a good example of how little the measurements catch of the full breadth of effect on the wide range of musical presentations, far more to the effect to what is heard listening, than shown by measurements.

When working with a range of BA's in a gathering of 12 of them per ear - CCA CA24 12BA, the range covered by a particular BA may be small, with some ranges being less noticeable than others, but we should notice an audible difference given the range and audio material exercising that frequency range.

These large combinations of specialized BA's are ofen the ones that show the most HISS with older tubes as well, completely unheard and unnoticed when wearing dynamic headphones; BA's can pickup and present clearly small signals within their narrow range far better than a dynamic driver.

KZ IEM's are a great inexpensive test for rating tubes usage/age/lifetime remaining.  Even tubes measuring well will HISS if long used, while new/unused examples of the same tube will measure well and generate no HISS at all.

If the sensor/transducer used to take the measurements is a typical broadband spectrum dynamic, it will miss a lot of the output of the signal that the BA's will pickup and present clearly. And, when missing, that BA's frequency range on the "right" material will show that gap clearly. Such as removing the BA with the range that shows the tube HISSing, if that BA is gone the HISSIng won't be as audible.


----------



## nraymond

steely333 said:


> Except timing (jitter)


I could see a USB cable potentially having an impact on synchronous audio over USB or a poorly implemented asychronous design. Today almost all USB audio interfaces are of the asynchronous type, which means the master clock is in the USB audio device and through a feedback loop the rate of flow of audio data from the host is modulated to minimize jitter. Why I said the quality of the asynchronous audio implementation matters is because nothing is stopping a designer from using a frequency synthesizer instead of a fixed oscillator, and an asynchronous USB audio device with a frequency synthesizer for the master clock could have worse jitter than synchronous USB audio, regardless of the USB cable. The bottom line is that if the USB cable is to spec and the USB audio device is asynchronous with a well implemented low jitter master clock, you'll be fine and you don't need a special USB cable for good audio.


----------



## steely333

nraymond said:


> I could see a USB cable potentially having an impact on synchronous audio over USB or a poorly implemented asychronous design. Today almost all USB audio interfaces are of the asynchronous type, which means the master clock is in the USB audio device and through a feedback loop the rate of flow of audio data from the host is modulated to minimize jitter. Why I said the quality of the asynchronous audio implementation matters is because nothing is stopping a designer from using a frequency synthesizer instead of a fixed oscillator, and an asynchronous USB audio device with a frequency synthesizer for the master clock could have worse jitter than synchronous USB audio, regardless of the USB cable. The bottom line is that if the USB cable is to spec and the USB audio device is asynchronous with a well implemented low jitter master clock, you'll be fine and you don't need a special USB cable for good audio.


Low bar hearing reference points DMS and Zeos show your hearing and understanding of the technical details is lacking.  You can peruse through multiple threads on this usb jitter subject.


----------



## saldsald

hmscott said:


> Those would be far more interesting with listening reports before and after disabling the drivers.  I'd like to know if listening matches the measurements.  I'd be very surprised to find that the "missing" drivers don't have an audible effect with some music genres.
> 
> Measurements don't always match listening reality.  This might be a good example of how little the measurements catch of the full breadth of effect on the wide range of musical presentations, far more to the effect to what is heard listening, than shown by measurements.
> 
> ...


You can almost expect all budget DD+BA/MST hybrid to have the same graph before and after removing some BAs/MST as this is how these makers tune their IEMs. The graphs also show the limitation of comparing SPLs.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

^ saldsald beat me to it.  SPL, and these cheap mics that are recording them, is just one macro sized feature of an acoustic wave's characteristics.  Your ears are way more sensitive than those graphs.


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ^ saldsald beat me to it.  SPL, and these cheap mics that are recording them, is just one macro sized feature of an acoustic wave's characteristics.  Your ears are way more sensitive than those graphs.


I actually think the mics are probably alright even thou they are not the most sensitive mics used for recording. It is probably the algorithm used in the software not extracting enough information to describe our hearing perception graphically. But yes I totally agree SPL is just one macro feature that loosely represent what we should expect to hear from the speakers. 

IMHO, SPL is most useful for comparing IEMs made of the same driver(s), such as for channel matching and modding.


----------



## DeltaAudio (Mar 2, 2022)

it only gets worse..

HBB x KZ DQ6s.. turns out it's actually a single DD iem.



i unsoldered the tweeter DDs one by one hoping to plot the different frequency ranges of the drivers and turns out every frequency is managed by the one big driver.





It's about time KZ gets exposed for this. Some of these drivers are decorative, i feel like I've been lied to.


----------



## Jansvast

I was skeptical about the ZE series, but really didn't see the DQ6 coming... What a shame, KZ, what a shame...


----------



## steely333

steely333 said:


> Except timing (jitter)


Amend.  5v supply.


----------



## steely333

DeltaAudio said:


> it only gets worse..
> 
> HBB x KZ DQ6s.. turns out it's actually a single DD iem.
> 
> ...





DeltaAudio said:


> it only gets worse..
> 
> HBB x KZ DQ6s.. turns out it's actually a single DD iem.
> 
> ...


Didn't something like this get reported for the DQ6 years back.  Forgot the final conclusion?


----------



## steely333

steely333 said:


> Didn't something like this get reported for the DQ6 years back.  Forgot the final conclusion?


ZS6 not DQ6


----------



## saldsald

DeltaAudio said:


> it only gets worse..
> 
> HBB x KZ DQ6s.. turns out it's actually a single DD iem.
> 
> ...


No it is not. This has been done with the original DQ6 and CSN. The 10mm DD is too dominant relative to the 6mms so their FR can not be shown. Also I believe the 6mms are not tweeters they're responsible for the mid range. Repeat the measurements by replacing the 10mm with a 22.5 ohm resistor and you will understand. 


steely333 said:


> Didn't something like this get reported for the DQ6 years back.  Forgot the final conclusion?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

DeltaAudio said:


> it only gets worse..
> 
> HBB x KZ DQ6s.. turns out it's actually a single DD iem.
> 
> ...



So the two 6mm make no sound without the 10mm disconnected?  Is there a crossover? My guess would be no, which means that the two 6mm drivers are additive. Not really a scandal either way. These 10mm driver units are used as full range single DD IEM all over the place.


----------



## baskingshark (Mar 2, 2022)

DeltaAudio said:


> it only gets worse..
> 
> HBB x KZ DQ6s.. turns out it's actually a single DD iem.
> 
> ...



I am not a KZ fan, but this is not surprising in CHIFI-land.

Won't be surprised some of these multi driver behemoths in budget CHIFI sets also have BAs that are there for decoration only.


----------



## DeltaAudio (Mar 3, 2022)

incase you need some more evidence that some of the drivers in the DQ6/DQ6S are fake:






The little sound tube going from the smaller drivers to the nozzle is closed off on some pairs of DQ6.

My friends keep telling me that their pair's sound tube appears blocked off, one of my friends doesn't even have a sound tube in his DQ6S at all!


----------



## saldsald

DeltaAudio said:


> incase you need some more evidence that some of the drivers in the DQ6/DQ6S are fake:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have posted these some time ago last year. If you really think you can figure out what's inside a transparent shell by looking through it, think again. And don't be lazy not to even measure the FR of the other drives without the main DD.


----------



## DeltaAudio (Mar 3, 2022)

saldsald said:


> I have posted these some time ago last year. If you really think you can figure out what's inside a transparent shell by looking through it, think again. And don't be lazy not to even measure the FR of the other drives without the main DD.


Nice pics, are you trying to say that my evidence is invalid because your specific unit has the hole?






my left unit has a (clogged with resin) hole that goes all the way to the DD. i guess that means these are legit after all.


----------



## saldsald

DeltaAudio said:


> Nice pics, are trying to say that my evidence is invalid because your specific unit has the hole?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The answer is so obvious. It means your copy maybe defective.


----------



## DeltaAudio

saldsald said:


> The answer is so obvious. It means your copy maybe defective.


My DQ6s copy is not defective. This is the intended sound signature tuned by HBB. My unit has consistent frequency matching and it also coincides with the frequency response graphs of other fellow reviewers.




 My measurements were of course taken before I opened my unit incase you were wondering.


----------



## saldsald (Mar 3, 2022)

DeltaAudio said:


> My DQ6s copy is not defective. This is the intended sound signature tuned by HBB. My unit has consistent frequency matching and it also coincides with the frequency response graphs of other fellow reviewers.
> 
> 
> My measurements were of course taken before I opened my unit incase you were wondering.


You are saying this because you don't understand SPL which is fine. All budget IEMs are tuned with a full frequency DD with a very dominant FR and the FR of the supplementary drivers are there for the addition of detail which is almost always shadowed by the main driver due to the relative low loudness. If you measure the normalized FR of the smaller drivers and the main driver and add up the curves in log scale you are almost not gonna see a difference just like your measurements. The circuit you see in all these IEMs are not real crossovers but for the addition of multi-drivers.

The first thing you should really do is replace the main DD with a resistor of the same value and measure the FR of remaining drivers. While this is not a 100% accurate method to simulate the impedance of the DD it should be close enough.


----------



## DeltaAudio

saldsald said:


> You are saying this because you don't understand SPL which is fine. All budget IEMs are tuned with a full frequency DD with a very dominant FR and the FR of the supplementary drivers are there for the addition of detail which is almost always shadowed by the main driver due to the relative low loudness. If you measure the normalized FR of the smaller drivers and the main driver and add up the curves in log scale you are almost not gonna see a difference just like your measurements. The circuit you see in all these IEMs are not real crossovers but for the addition of multi-drivers.
> 
> The first thing you should really do is replace the main DD with a resistor of the same value and measure the FR of remaining drivers. While this is not a 100% accurate method to simulate the impedance of the DD it should be close enough.


interesting feedback, I didn't know that if you start unsoldering the drivers the frequency graph is not supposed to change. i will conduct experiments to learn more. thanks 👍


----------



## DeltaAudio (Mar 3, 2022)

I just conducted an experiment:




Using the TRN V90S, a six-driver hybrid iem, i wanted to see if disconnecting the drivers would result in an actual decrease in something like the treble or bass.







I started with the BA furthest from the nozzle, after unsoldering one of the contacts and remeasuring the sound, the resultant changes to the FR were minimal. A slight increase to the treble area is observed, suggesting that the driver had inverted polarity or was just causing an impedance drop.




Unsoldering one of the mid BAs yeilded the same FR as before.




Unsoldering the other mid BA also resulted in no measurable difference to the sound. Further supporting saldsald in his case.




The last two BA are positioned in the nozzle, unsoldering the contacts from those BA actually resulted in the graphs i expected. There is a drastic drop in the treble region and the sound is noticeably softer and duller in listening.

Some drivers seem to contribute nothing to the overall sound, and some drivers work as can be expected.


----------



## seanwee

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> So the two 6mm make no sound without the 10mm disconnected?  Is there a crossover? My guess would be no, which means that the two 6mm drivers are additive. Not really a scandal either way. These 10mm driver units are used as full range single DD IEM all over the place.


Yeah thats what i was thinking. Rather than showing the same graph, a graph of what the extra drivers do without the main driver would be more insightful to what they contribute.



DeltaAudio said:


> I just conducted an experiment:
> 
> 
> Using the TRN V90S, a six-driver hybrid iem, i wanted to see if disconnecting the drivers would result in an actual decrease in something like the treble or bass.
> ...


In BA iems, it is common practice to have multiple drivers playing the same thing to increase the tonal weight of the iems by pushing more air so it is expected that the fr won't always change when some drivers are removed.



saldsald said:


> You are saying this because you don't understand SPL which is fine. All budget IEMs are tuned with a full frequency DD with a very dominant FR and the FR of the supplementary drivers are there for the addition of detail which is almost always shadowed by the main driver due to the relative low loudness. If you measure the normalized FR of the smaller drivers and the main driver and add up the curves in log scale you are almost not gonna see a difference just like your measurements. The circuit you see in all these IEMs are not real crossovers but for the addition of multi-drivers.
> 
> The first thing you should really do is replace the main DD with a resistor of the same value and measure the FR of remaining drivers. While this is not a 100% accurate method to simulate the impedance of the DD it should be close enough.


Rather than use an equivalent resistor, why not just remove the main DD from the housing and leave it hanging outside the shell when running FR measurements? That seems to be the simplest way


----------



## saldsald

seanwee said:


> Yeah thats what i was thinking. Rather than showing the same graph, a graph of what the extra drivers do without the main driver would be more insightful to what they contribute.
> 
> 
> In BA iems, it is common practice to have multiple drivers playing the same thing to increase the tonal weight of the iems by pushing more air so it is expected that the fr won't always change when some drivers are removed.
> ...


Because:
1. you will need a special resin glue dissolving agent;
2. you will risk damaging the shell and the driver; 
3. by removing the driver you will change the front cavity size which I think is a major tuning factor;
4. You will also need to open up the front part of the IEM which can be irreversible (don't do this with the DQ6/DQ6s!)


----------



## saldsald (Mar 3, 2022)

DeltaAudio said:


> I just conducted an experiment:
> 
> 
> Using the TRN V90S, a six-driver hybrid iem, i wanted to see if disconnecting the drivers would result in an actual decrease in something like the treble or bass.
> ...


Actually quite interesting to see how the V90s is tuned here as I also have it. The extra treble extension as shown on your last graph indicates it is purely BA sound. The FR  graphs of TRN's hybrid are less typical and usually have strange peaks and your measurements explain why. 



DeltaAudio said:


> Some drivers seem to contribute nothing to the overall sound, and some drivers work as can be expected.


Not to the overall sound I believe, just the SPL.


----------



## DeltaAudio

saldsald said:


> Not to the overall sound I believe, just the SPL.


ok


----------



## jananan78

the plot thickens... for real this time. i wonder if multi driver iems from other manufacturers show the same response with some drivers removed. I know some use real crossovers and some even allow tuning like the fiio fh5s


----------



## Tzennn (Mar 3, 2022)

Personally i don't fully agree with "these extra driver ain't working properly" but rather they impact the sounds just slightly so that they don't effect too much in the sounds
I have NRA, ZEX (pro and non pro) and all of them have the same grain/ whispiness / edgy of being est while DQ6 have resonance because they have a tube like the pic shown below
But again, they can just do one DD iem like CRA and they will sound awesome. Love the NRA and DQ6 sound tho


DeltaAudio said:


>


----------



## lushmelody

So tl;dr other drivers just add spice to the main driver sound. Why someone would manufacture a dead hardware identical to a perfect working one is the question I think. Better did Beats, economically, inserting literal useless metal weight

I'd like to see same experiment with Penon Serial tbh. 10x price and same way of tuning? No way!


----------



## Nimweth

Tzennn said:


> Personally i don't fully agree with "these extra driver ain't working properly" but rather they impact the sounds just slightly so that they don't effect too much in the sounds
> I have NRA, ZEX (pro and non pro) and all of them have the same grain/ whispiness / edgy of being est while DQ6 have resonance because they have a tube like the pic shown below
> But again, they can just do one DD iem like CRA and they will sound awesome. Love the NRA and DQ6 tho


Just wait for the single DD that isn't connected......lol


----------



## Tzennn

Nimweth said:


> Just wait for the single DD that isn't connected......lol


Remind me of this headphone-nes




"Maybe they make sound by scratching your ears or something" - in aussie


----------



## jananan78

i guess this would explain why my single DD iens from kz such as edx pro and cra sounds just as good as more expensive ones like zex pro, Zsn pro x and zst x minus the very high frequencies that sometimes comes through the BA. always felt that high frequency extension was much better with other brand iem with BA. for example the cra can handle most of the frequency range including the high ones  from hearing test alone. 

either the kz BAs are not sensitive enough or the crossover or the lack of any is not filtering the higher frequencies from going to the DD so the BA can process them. much like the woofer mid and tweeter arrangement in a conventional speaker without proper crossover to filter the signals. maybe kz should work on improving with a proper crossover instead of trying to fit the most number of drivers in their iems. just my 2 cents...


----------



## jananan78

wasn't there a kz or cca with a knowles BA instead of their in-house BA  i wonder how that sounds paired with their DD..


----------



## saldsald

jananan78 said:


> i guess this would explain why my single DD iens from kz such as edx pro and cra sounds just as good as more expensive ones like zex pro, Zsn pro x and zst x minus the very high frequencies that sometimes comes through the BA. always felt that high frequency extension was much better with other brand iem with BA. for example the cra can handle most of the frequency range including the high ones  from hearing test alone.
> 
> either the kz BAs are not sensitive enough or the crossover or the lack of any is not filtering the higher frequencies from going to the DD so the BA can process them. much like the woofer mid and tweeter arrangement in a conventional speaker without proper crossover to filter the signals. maybe kz should work on improving with a proper crossover instead of trying to fit the most number of drivers in their iems. just my 2 cents...


I bet even the more expensive IEMs have the same tuning concept with no real crossover as you can't really fit a good inductor low pass filter circuit in that small shell for the DD or the Bass BA. Like this Leisurely Audio (aka GS audio) E16 with 4 Sonion ESTs, 12 BAs per side priced at RMB 8000, the circuit board only involves caps and resistors.  (of higher quality than those in KZ IEMs, but still dity cheap)


----------



## Jansvast (Mar 4, 2022)

That would explain the term "typical kz". They are almost all the same...


----------



## rainbowneggs

hi everyone, it's been a minute. i'm thinking of upgrading my IEMs – im currently using ZAX (i sold my ZSX and ZS10 pro). are there any new ones that are better than ZAXs?


----------



## lushmelody

I wonder... If budget multi-driver is a scam, why it has never been exposed before? And about the considered authentic crossovers... Do they sound better, different? Shell size limitation is also an interesting factor in the issue


----------



## G777

I just ordered a KZ AS12. What am I in for?


----------



## Nimweth

G777 said:


> I just ordered a KZ AS12. What am I in for?


Ha ha, I have ordered one of those as well. I ordered it from Ali Express and it was returned to the warehouse, twice. I received a refund. I then ordered it again from a different store and it has been returned again. I am waiting to find out if it will be sent out again. I hope you have more luck. There does not seem to be many reviews or opinions on these, but I was keen to hear what the 30012 drivers sound like.


----------



## TechnoidFR

G777 said:


> I just ordered a KZ AS12. What am I in for?


Me too


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Ha ha, I have ordered one of those as well. I ordered it from Ali Express and it was returned to the warehouse, twice. I received a refund. I then ordered it again from a different store and it has been returned again. I am waiting to find out if it will be sent out again. I hope you have more luck. There does not seem to be many reviews or opinions on these, but I was keen to hear what the 30012 drivers sound like.


30012 is the roughest beast of a treble driver that I have ever experienced. Yet it is dampened heavily by the treble tube filter. So in an original form, the best part of AS12 is the bass, really beats BA10 and AS10 for me. Then, if to choose your optimal dampening of the treble by modding - a lot of potential, in my opinion. And all the drivers are real and connected 

(I did not want to participate in the recent discussions, I can only assure thar the NRA "static" driver is real and I heard it alone myself. Then if DQ6, which is to me the most BA-like DD,  has only one DD operational - kudos to KZ! I would not easily beleive it, but then in the end, the performance/price ratio of DQ6 is great in my book)


----------



## G777 (Mar 5, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> 30012 is the roughest beast of a treble driver that I have ever experienced. Yet it is dampened heavily by the treble tube filter. So in an original form, the best part of AS12 is the bass, really beats BA10 and AS10 for me. Then, if to choose your optimal dampening of the treble by modding - a lot of potential, in my opinion. And all the drivers are real and connected
> 
> (I did not want to participate in the recent discussions, I can only assure thar the NRA "static" driver is real and I heard it alone myself. Then if DQ6, which is to me the most BA-like DD,  has only one DD operational - kudos to KZ! I would not easily beleive it, but then in the end, the performance/price ratio of DQ6 is great in my book)


How is its technical ability? I'm thinking of modding mine, but I'm planning on reducing the bass and probably treble.


----------



## Nimweth (Mar 5, 2022)

I recently acquired the AST. I am finding it excellent for classical music. In this piece, the AST managed to reveal all the layers in the dense scoring:


And this is a delightful piece, the AST's reproduction of the woodwind is beautiful:


----------



## PhonoPhi

G777 said:


> How is its technical ability? I'm thinking of modding mine, but I'll planning on reducing the bass and probably treble.


The technical ability is great, as for all all-BAs. Timbre is the most limiting. I found my first AS12, that I got when it was first introduced, limited with low orchestral brass, so I removed the treble filters.
The recent AS12, perhaps a newer version, I really liked "as is", though with the more transparent source.
With the recent sales, AS12 has a good value "as is", and really an excellent potential for modding, in my opinion.





Nimweth said:


> I recently acquired the AST. I am finding it excellent for classical music. In this piece, the AST managed to reveal all the layers in the dense scoring:
> 
> 
> And this is a delightful piece, the AST's reproduction of the woodwind is beautiful:



AST can shine with the brighter transparent powerful sources indeed


----------



## Jansvast (Mar 5, 2022)

The ZEX pro must be an experiment by KZ, whether people can hear incoherency between drivers and different driver type timbre. It was a single DD all this time 🙃🙃🙃

KZ using their reputation to pull off a literal scam...


----------



## jananan78

Jansvast said:


> The ZEX pro must be an experiment by KZ, whether people can hear incoherency between drivers and different driver type timbre. It was a single DD all this time 🙃🙃🙃
> 
> KZ using their reputation to pull off a literal scam...


so the weird timbre that i was hearing in the zex pro was not from the est after all ? although my zex pro is the non crinacle original kz zex pro.


----------



## Jansvast

Well must have been something else XD. Also the ZEX pro and CRN are the exact same iem.


----------



## InvisibleInk

It's at times like this when I wish Knowledge Zenith had a customer representative here on Head-Fi to respond to the latest findings of the community.


----------



## DeltaAudio

KZ has really done it this time..


----------



## r31ya (Mar 6, 2022)

Jansvast said:


> The ZEX pro must be an experiment by KZ, whether people can hear incoherency between drivers and different driver type timbre. It was a single DD all this time 🙃🙃🙃
> 
> KZ using their reputation to pull off a literal scam...


If ZEX Pro have non functional BA/Magnetostat, i have to put my hats off to that single DD because the separation and imaging is great in ZEX Pro
And makes Aria (1DD) feels lacking in that department.

The question is, is it really dead BA/Magnetostat with waste of crossover, or it just tuned that even if they died it won't change much of FR.
Again, if that the case, that single DD is super aweseme.


----------



## morphon

r31ya said:


> If ZEX Pro have non functional BA/Magnetostat, i have to put my hats off to that single DD because the separation and imaging is great in ZEX Pro
> And makes Aria (1DD) feels lacking in that department.
> 
> The question is it really dead BA/Magnetostat with waste of crossover, or it just tuned that even if they died it won't change much of FR.
> Again, if that the case, that single DD is super aweseme.


Agree 100%.

This is what I don't understand about the big "controversy" - they sound the way they do. They cost what they do. Do I really care about what EXACTLY is in the shells and how it works? Nope. I still have a VERY hard time finding a better rec in the $35 range.

Deceptive marketing - ok, clean that up, sure. If they're passive radiators then cool, whatever. If they sound good for the price I really can't see what else I'm supposed to want.


----------



## Ymzable (Mar 5, 2022)

I am not surprised at all as I have seen an 8-core cable with only 2 cores connected to the connectors.


----------



## UnderpathBum

If it's proven KZ Zex Pro and DQ6 have units just for decoration and marketing purpose only, I don't believe KZ is the only company does this.  The whole Hi-Fi industry needs to sell new items.  Consumers always look for solutions to fix what's lacking in their existing iems, and not many knows how impossible to shove a real crossover circuit into a tiny iem shell, let alone making the added units work cohesively with the existing DD.  Can people really tell the added EST/BA or two made any difference?  Yes if the brain tells so.


----------



## seanwee

rainbowneggs said:


> hi everyone, it's been a minute. i'm thinking of upgrading my IEMs – im currently using ZAX (i sold my ZSX and ZS10 pro). are there any new ones that are better than ZAXs?


CCA CRA + nozzle mod


----------



## Steve1976

Well I literally just ordered one yesterday and saw this huge flop today. 

$35 isn't much money but I am sure if the false marketing is true, a lot more products with much higher price tags are probably also having similar shady business.


----------



## seanwee (Mar 6, 2022)

Steve1976 said:


> Well I literally just ordered one yesterday and saw this huge flop today.
> 
> $35 isn't much money but I am sure if the false marketing is true, a lot more products with much higher price tags are probably also having similar shady business.


I'm of the opinion that as long as it sounds good at the price point its sold for, who cares? Its not a loss to the consumer.

If KZ wants to waste good drivers for decoration and marketing its their choice.

That said, their advertising is misleading and I think thats the problem that most people here are taking issue with.

If they advertise a product with a new driver, more people will be intrigued and buy it to see what the new driver brings to the table. Compare that to saying that its still a 1DD iem, just with a different tuning. I'm sure far less people will give it a try.

Its been working wonders so far no?


----------



## Steve1976

seanwee said:


> If they advertise a product with a new driver, more people will be intrigued and buy it to see what the new driver brings to the table.


True, the companies are pushing new products way too often now. DAPs with minor changes refreshing every year to keep jacking up the price and preventing consumers buying used "outdated" ones.


----------



## seanwee (Mar 6, 2022)

Steve1976 said:


> True, the companies are pushing new products way too often now. DAPs with minor changes refreshing every year to keep jacking up the price and preventing consumers buying used "outdated" ones.


Well that's because many daps needed a refresh due to an AKM Dac shortage. Otherwise the product line would have just ended there.

Personally I think that the DAP life cycle is pretty slow. Typically they go 4-5 years before a successor is released.


----------



## myromeo

so I called out crinacle on the KZ discord, this is what he replied. 






As I said on the discord server, I’m not really bothered what is going on inside the IEM. Makes me wonder if KZ can tune a DD why not just sell it as single DD, it sounds great for the price.


----------



## r31ya (Mar 6, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Well that's because many daps needed a refresh due to an AKM Dac shortage. Otherwise they product line would have just ended there.
> 
> Personally I think that the DAP life cycle is pretty slow. Typically they go 4-5 years before a successor is released.


DAP is pretty long lasting.
Their price also pretty held up, even in second hand market.
Ancient Astell $ Kern DAP (bad example) still holds $150+ value.
Hell, Mid-fi and Hi-fi tend to hold it second hand value as long as its in decent condition. It's lowfi that become super bargain in second hand price.



myromeo said:


> so I called out crinacle on the KZ discord, this is what he replied.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said on the discord server, I’m not really bothered what is going on inside the IEM. Makes me wonder if KZ can tune a DD why not just sell it as single DD, it sounds great for the price.


Like i said earlier, the sound layering of that supposed single DD is freaking awesome.
It have one weakness on certain part of the treble that previously attributed to the BA, but yeah. 
In certain areas like sound layering (before its attributed to hybrid setup), it even outclass Aria LCP DD driver.


----------



## myromeo

r31ya said:


> Like i said earlier, the sound layering of that supposed single DD is freaking awesome.
> It have one weakness on certain part of the treble that previously attributed to the BA, but yeah. It certain areas like sound layering (before its attributed to hybrid setup), it even outclass Aria LCP DD driver.


I have to agree, it’s a good sounding IEM, it’s just disappointing that KZ couldn’t be transparent with their customers! There’s nothing wrong with a single DD IEM, it’s tuned nicely so why the marketing BS, not to mention unnecessary manufacturing cost?!


----------



## Jansvast (Mar 6, 2022)

myromeo said:


> so I called out crinacle on the KZ discord, this is what he replied.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said on the discord server, I’m not really bothered what is going on inside the IEM. Makes me wonder if KZ can tune a DD why not just sell it as single DD, it sounds great for the price.


With all the "tuning" he did to the iem he could've just sent them VK4's graph and said 'Do it something like that'


----------



## InvisibleInk

Jansvast said:


> With all the "tuning" he did to the iem he could've just sent them VK4's graph and said 'Do it something like that'


Is that your way of asking what Crinacle's tuning process is? We'd all like to know that.


----------



## Nimweth

I am finding the AST very tip sensitive. The supplied tips, of course, are dreadful. Original Starlines worked well, but the best so far have been some KBEAR wide bore grey/red tips which came with the Believe. Bass is more solid and there's a welcome extra bit of warmth to the mids. Anyone suggest other options?


----------



## phower

Steve1976 said:


> Well I literally just ordered one yesterday and saw this huge flop today.
> 
> $35 isn't much money but I am sure if the false marketing is true, a lot more products with much higher price tags are probably also having similar shady business.


Audiophiles won't accept it, but a parametric equalizer is all you need to get a great sounding headphone. Sure, an equalizer can't fix loose sub bass (design limitation), but the rest of the FR can be fixed easily that satisfies personal hearing loss/ ear shape.
Players from TEAC/Onkyo on Android and for desktops, Peace equalizer is all anyone needs. 🙄


----------



## InvisibleInk

Nimweth said:


> I am finding the AST very tip sensitive. The supplied tips, of course, are dreadful. Original Starlines worked well, but the best so far have been some KBEAR wide bore grey/red tips which came with the Believe. Bass is more solid and there's a welcome extra bit of warmth to the mids. Anyone suggest other options?


Etymotic dual-flange silicone. Near perfect isolation.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

I take it the BA10 are still a 10 driver IEM?? Could it really be a single BA???? 
Kid A on these is superb. Radiohead must optimise for headphones on the mastering?? Their sound quality is awesome.


----------



## baskingshark

myromeo said:


> so I called out crinacle on the KZ discord, this is what he replied.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said on the discord server, I’m not really bothered what is going on inside the IEM. Makes me wonder if KZ can tune a DD why not just sell it as single DD, it sounds great for the price.



The budget CHIFI segment is super cut-throat and competitive, and I guess some of these companies want to stand out from the fierce competition - so they quote "EST" drivers, making it more attractive to would-be consumers and also justifying an increased selling price. If it were just a run-of-the-mill single DD set, people will just say, "meh, that's another KZ weekly sidegrade release in the pokemon pantheon!"



Anyway, the ESTs used in cheaper and even midFI gear are not true electrostatics but actually magnetostats or electrets, which are lower voltage drivers.

The true higher voltage electrostatic drivers (for example, something like the Shure KSE1500 or STAX SR series) actually have their own energizer amp or high voltage amplifier to drive them.

The electrets we are talking about in budget gear are already pre-charged, so they theoretically can lose their charge over time and may be rendered inoperable once the charges are depleted. Though in all likelihood, we who are in this hobby, will probably receive a new pair of hype-train IEMs in our mailbox way before any electret charge is depleted.


----------



## voicemaster

Been enjoying buying single DD/planar IEMs lately. 7Hz Timeless, Tripowin Olina, Moondrop Kato and Tinhifi T3 plus are some example. Got KZ DQ6s last week just because I like HBB's tuning and it fit my song library pretty well. I would say the DQ6s sounds good. Not really sad about the "fake" drivers on KZ IEMs as I have been enjoying and amazed by how a single driver IEM can actually deliver such amazing sound.
Then again if I buy for example UM MEST and it has "fake" drivers, I would probably be pretty pissed off as the price is in the TOTL range.


----------



## jananan78

i wonder how would zex pro a.k.a CRN sound with the mest driver or BA driver or both removed as it would create more space in the iem shell.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

The bear market is so bad that it's now taken up an attack on my KZ collection.


----------



## saldsald

Nimweth said:


> I am finding the AST very tip sensitive. The supplied tips, of course, are dreadful. Original Starlines worked well, but the best so far have been some KBEAR wide bore grey/red tips which came with the Believe. Bass is more solid and there's a welcome extra bit of warmth to the mids. Anyone suggest other options?


try CP100+


----------



## TheRealShinku (Mar 7, 2022)

Would be nice to know what is going on with the KZ stuff officially. I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but realistically how much (if at all) high frequency sound are you going to be getting from drivers that are on the complete opposite side of the nozzle and don't have tubes to direct it? 4Shrug


----------



## saldsald

baskingshark said:


> The budget CHIFI segment is super cut-throat and competitive, and I guess some of these companies want to stand out from the fierce competition - so they quote "EST" drivers, making it more attractive to would-be consumers and also justifying an increased selling price. If it were just a run-of-the-mill single DD set, people will just say, "meh, that's another KZ weekly sidegrade release in the pokemon pantheon!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The sonion 'electret' microphone with the driver is actually electrostatic, just not the same type of 'electrostatic' you find in STAX I believe.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

If you've not done this before:

Buy a nice set of 3 way speaker cabinets.
Disconnect the woofer and midrange drivers.
How loud is your perception of the tweeter on its own? 
There is, without question, a tremendous amount of snake oil and opportunistic lies and cheats in the HiFi industry as a whole. I just don't think that KZ's driver connections is among the list of offenders. 

If an electrical engineer decided to take this up on a bench with an oscilloscope and better tools I'd be willing to listen to conclusive results. So far I just see a lot of armchair assumptions and bad logic approaching actionable libel. The alarmism has caused this thread to unduly jump the shark IMO.


----------



## evasb

KZ is pretty dumb, wasting good drivers for nothing.

If they did sell these IEMs as single DD, nobody would care if it sounds good.


----------



## Podster

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> If you've not done this before:
> 
> Buy a nice set of 3 way speaker cabinets.
> Disconnect the woofer and midrange drivers.
> ...


That sir is hilarious  I've had nice rigs since I was 10 years old (OK, lets just say 55 years now) and I really don't have time to measure and differentiate all my stupid gear (probably the user here who's stupid) because I'm too busy enjoying my music no matter what I'm listening to it on  As for Knowledge Zenith these out of a massive KZ collection still get rotation time in weekly  







And to the gentleman suggesting the BA10 as a Single driver I'm afraid you could not in good faith call it a 10 anything anymore  I'd also say why as the BA10 is my absolute favorite all BA iem I own and I have some nicer/nicer according to some but mine sound better to my ears than any other all BA I own. I have HQ-12's, DM6's, BW B400's, etc. but none have the magic of the BA10's.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

Podster said:


> That sir is hilarious  I've had nice rigs since I was 10 years old (OK, lets just say 55 years now) and I really don't have time to measure and differentiate all my stupid gear (probably the user here who's stupid) because I'm too busy enjoying my music no matter what I'm listening to it on  As for Knowledge Zenith these out of a massive KZ collection still get rotation time in weekly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. The BA10 is a superb IEM. It's the best I have heard. Ever. It has energy and enthusiasm. A joy.


----------



## Rocket222

Weird, I have a different experience with BA10, likely due to difference of our organs.  In most case it performs well.  But when I listened to "You Can't Hurry Love - Phil Collins", the sound of the cymbals, I had to remove it from my ears.  Now, I put a thin layers of packing material on the nozzles to tame the high pitch.  In comparison, I am more fond of the ZSX than BA10.


----------



## myromeo

Crinacles official statement on the driver situation

For anyone interested, crinacle shared this today. 

I enjoy my ZEX Pro, regardless of what’s happening inside.

Anyone done a driver test in the ZS10 Pro?


----------



## Nimweth (Mar 7, 2022)

Podster said:


> That sir is hilarious  I've had nice rigs since I was 10 years old (OK, lets just say 55 years now) and I really don't have time to measure and differentiate all my stupid gear (probably the user here who's stupid) because I'm too busy enjoying my music no matter what I'm listening to it on  As for Knowledge Zenith these out of a massive KZ collection still get rotation time in weekly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have recently acquired the AST and it is very good, but the BA10 still holds its own, it has the best bass of any all BA IEM I have heard so far. The treble is very well tuned as well. It is a classic. Also love my ZS7!


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

No sign of Crinacle handing back the KZ money as a sign of his utter disgust at their reprehensible actions. The way he judiciously refrained from mentioning the drivers in his promotions of the collaboration looks very wise in hindsight. Very wise indeed. Stay classy Crinacle.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Let's get this straight:

KZ ships years of product,  gets routinely dissed and criticized for being treble canons yet still manages to build a loyal and satisfied following that tend to be repeat buyers. 

KZ decides to work with Internet personalities to "tune" their products to stop getting bad reviews by the socmedia sound gurus. 

Said tuning ends up adding massive resistance to treble range drivers to make them dark enough for popular consumption to the broad praise of everyone. 

Now a couple of Facebook hacks are trying to build their own personal brand by "exposing" KZ, strengthening their socmedia reputation and increasing follower count. 

Y'all being played and now the gurus are trying to CYA to protect their streaming revenue. *Yawn* 

I found my lost left channel NRA and am listening right now to some Beth Hart off my PowerDAC. Think I'll keep trusting my own ears, thanks.


----------



## G777

myromeo said:


> Crinacles official statement on the driver situation
> 
> For anyone interested, crinacle shared this today.
> 
> ...


Same story


----------



## Rocket222

The AZ09 pro is currently on sale for US$30 at Ali, in case you are interested to buy one.


----------



## PhonoPhi

G777 said:


> Same story


Seems to be an utter non-sense!

I did few disconnects and disects .starting with CCZ Emerald.

The reason I did Emerald that it sounded very similar to theiir DD - Coffee Bean - no BA sound. Indeed, dead BA drivers (at least in my unit).

In NRA, the "MST kind of" driver is real, I listened to it alone and have its power consumption data across all frequencies - limited range indeed, not loud, but it is functional.

ZS10 pro sounding the same without BAs just made me laugh - complete non-sense, if you ever heard  ZS10 pro - it has BA resolution above simpler ZSN/ZSN-pro and so prominent BA treble!


----------



## MrBlitzpunk

Rocket222 said:


> The AZ09 pro is currently on sale for US$30 at Ali, in case you are interested to buy one.


questionable BA addition aside, 35$ ZS10Pro is still a great spend. honestly the fact that they even put 8 BAs in there (fake or not) and still kept the price low is a feat in and of itself


----------



## bhazard

Looks like KZ can no longer pull off charging more for "more drivers". Kudos to finding this out.
I'm not just skeptical of KZ now, but I'm skeptical of any chi-fi multi driver IEM without running a crossover test like this.
A manufacturer will now have to prove their drivers aren't just decorations. Trust is gone.


----------



## baskingshark

bhazard said:


> Looks like KZ can no longer pull off charging more for "more drivers". Kudos to finding this out.
> I'm not just skeptical of KZ now, but I'm skeptical of any chi-fi multi driver IEM without running a crossover test like this.
> A manufacturer will now have to prove their drivers aren't just decorations. Trust is gone.



Agreed. For that matter, single DD material types can be faked too. I know folks can open shells but do they have spectrometers to prove that the drivers are beryllium or LCP or graphene or whatever?

The official DUNU folks here on headfi made some interesting comments about the lining/material of drivers: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-2968#post-15288735
*"The PVD layer has to be thick enough and the microscopic grain pattern has to be regular enough to confer that pistonic motion beryllium is so famous for. That's why our sub-$100 products (DM-380 and DM-480) are still titanium drivers. Even the TITAN 6, at $139, is only coated on one side."*

For all we know, some of these fly by night companies are just sprinkling a few flakes of certain coatings on their drivers instead of uniformly applying it in the prescribed quantities to truly be effective. These materials need to be coated and implented properly to truly make a difference; indeed I've tried some "beryllium" DD IEMs that sound no different, or even worse than a conventional DD.

DUNU says they have difficulty implementing this Beryllium coating in their sub $100 USD gear. And we already see unit variation in macroscopic areas in these budget CHIFI in terms of sound and build, so I am quite doubtful that budget CHIFI sets are a paragon for good QC, when it comes to microscopic application of these novel materials in the proper layering.



FWIW, TOTL companies and IEMs also do use so-called lower class drivers: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/
Eg Campfire, CTM, JH.



I know some folks will argue so what if the drivers are not as advertised? As long as it sounds good right? 
But this is more of an ethics issue, that companies are marketing stuff that is not legit. If they can cheat in this area, they probably cheat in other areas too, eg beryllium dust is toxic and may be hazardous to workers (or even the user if the particles break off the diaphragm). And these novel materials/more drivers do probably add more costs to the end-consumer also.


----------



## zadillo

For what it’s worth, I asked Linsoul for a refund and they refused saying that they don’t do refunds after 7 days. They don’t seem to care about the false specifications and advertising


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Mar 8, 2022)

bhazard said:


> I'm skeptical of any chi-fi multi driver IEM without running a crossover



You shouldn't be ... ever looked at knowles tech sheets for their drivers?  If you feed full frequency current you're only going to get back the FR on the spec sheet. There's not enough voltage / wattage here to worry about blowing them out like on 4 (car) or 8 ohm (typical home hifi) speakers.

Look here:

https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Knowles%20Acoustics%20PDFs/SWFK-31736-000_Dwg.pdf

Do you see anything in here warning about crossovers or other bullsh!t?  NO. You feed it signal and get back a curve. That's it.







Look at the acoustical sensitivity here. 3-4 k and 6600-7600.  remember that.



baskingshark said:


> I know some folks will argue so what if the drivers are not as advertised? As long as it sounds good right?
> But this is more of an ethics issue, that companies are marketing stuff that is not legit.



I heartily agree that KZ deserves some flack for advertising "EST" units on the ZEX and NRA when they are clearly not. That for sure is false advertising.  But even Knowles themselves aren't immune to bending the rules a bit - they advertise this same unit above as up to 40kHz.

Remember the peaks in the spec sheet?  Well we obviously don't have all the information. Why?  Because we're not electrical engineers and/or physicists. My undergrad at university was in physics so I do recall that interpreting lab data from charts is dependent on a whole lot of factors that aren't easily compressed into a 2 pager written for implementation engineers.




The


https://www.knowles.com/docs/defaul...000940c19.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=671c77b1_0


All of the internet rage here is due to 1) a lack of knowledge 2) inadequate test equipment  3) lack of knowledge as to how to operate said test equipment and 4)  a company that's definitely stretching their marketing to make a buck in a fiercely competitive market in what is often a sub $40 price range.

If people want to hate KZ for their crimes of adding resistance to BA leads then the masses shouldn't dig too hard inside of their pair of Harman Kardan units, Panasonic, JBL, or pre-Apple era Beats.

The only brand that sticks out consistently to me over decades of purchases as a long term pillar of trust is Sony, and even they make some duds and churn out their share of shelf cluttering mediocrity. Everybody else in this industry you should really take with a grain of salt, even for long time players who keep it clean like Grado, or ones trying to dazzle you with tech like Focal. If you're ears are happy with the product for what you paid, your anxiety and blood pressure will be better if you just leave it at that and focus on better things in your life.

cheers


----------



## PROblemdetected

Maybe all this noise bring us a new opportunity to learn about what we are buying...


----------



## yaps66

This is funny!!


----------



## Carrow

my KZ ZS10 Pro set I got for like €40 sound pretty good so I'm just over here watching this unfolding like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

probably not buying another KZ product regardless but if they gotta stretch their marketing claims then you'd be surprised to find how many pillars of this hobby doubtlessly pull the same tactics


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> You shouldn't be ... ever looked at knowles tech sheets for their drivers?  If you feed full frequency current you're only going to get back the FR on the spec sheet. There's not enough voltage / wattage here to worry about blowing them out like on 4 (car) or 8 ohm (typical home hifi) speakers.
> 
> Look here:
> 
> ...


I have the same degree and I believe most people are not doing their "experiments" correctly mostly just listen to the graphs with the eyes. Without two copies of the same IEM or adding a on/off switch (like this https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/post-16565696), it is pretty hard even for the even most "trained-ears" (at least they believe they have) to tell the subtle difference so they turn to their graphs.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

saldsald said:


> I have the same degree and I believe most people are not doing their "experiments" correctly mostly just listen to the graphs with the eyes. Without two copies of the same IEM or adding a on/off switch (like this https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/post-16565696), it is pretty hard even for the even most "trained-ears" (at least they believe they have) to tell the subtle difference so they turn to their graphs.



Need standardized input per the test specs as well.  Since KZ are making clones of the knowles units and don't publish the specs it's hard to know if they're built to the same sensitivity/perf, but an interesting test would be to bench one that match up numbers wise to a knowles equivalent and test the kz output at output values listed for the knowles. I think the results of such a test are potentially far more incriminating than these tear down dead-driver claims. Things like unit variation and defect rates need to be factored in also to choose a suitable sample size for conclusive results, and we're not privy to any of that information.



sakt1moko said:


> Maybe all this noise bring us a new opportunity to learn about what we are buying...



It's it a fair point, @sakt1moko. I see a lot of uproar on photography forums about lenses. Someone gets an optical test chart printed up then starts testing out a few snaps in their living room or whatever. A bit of hilarity ensues, lots of keyboard lab-coats pile in with figures and technical terms ... and then eventually comes the depressing conclusion that to get a good lens you need to order 3-5 of them from a place that accepts returns, actually do some minor tests yourself, and then keep the best one.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 8, 2022)

I haven’t purchased a KZ since 2016. Still I do understand the consequences of advertising the driver assembly one way, then delivering another style of functioning arrangement.

They still sound great though.....right?


The issue is they were not truly ever going to make a whole new driver system to satisfy the tuners wishes. They could say (in defense) that the arraignments provided DID satisfactorily provide the tune that was requested/required by the celebrity tuner. The problem was how were they to truthfully tell of the quiet drivers. They may say that they couldn’t touch a thing as the tune was achieved, but it would have been hard to disclose dead drivers, how do you say that?

Instead they promised more working drivers. Just because it sounded good and helped with expectation bias. Now the expectation bias is in reverse mode for listeners. As many maybe have an issue with a product sold as one thing, but truly being something else all together!

It’s going to be interesting how this plays out. So much of audio is like this, yet not revealed yet. Maybe, just maybe what KZ did was standard practice, to a point? How many dead drivers or pseudo drivers truly exist? No one knows.......it could be way more common than we think?

I remember when someone’s IEM was pulled apart because it was $400 and they didn’t disclose the driver count. It turned out to only have two drivers. Yet as a whole you couldn’t criticize it. It sounded like a value for the price regardless of BA driver count. Sometimes not knowing anything is better, I think?

But to be realistic this was bound to happen, at some point in time.


----------



## Ynot1

Anyone consider slicing bread, figuratively speaking, this way, where instead of equ-ing or getting something neutral or balance, and trying to make every source signal fit into one basket so to speak, you take the source signal and go directly to the perfectly matching iem. Aren't we at the point where every song deserve its own headphone?
And DAC and amps in theory deserve to be flat neutral, since they are already as close as they can get.


----------



## Podster

Honestly I appreciate all you sleuths out here watching out for us, now have me wondering if my BA10's are firing on all cylinders  What I can tell you is whatever is working in my pair first proves KZ does have some operational BA's and second as mentioned before my BA10's are my absolute best sounding all BA iem I own. Not too mention gorgeous


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Honestly I appreciate all you sleuths out here watching out for us, now have me wondering if my BA10's are firing on all cylinders  What I can tell you is whatever is working in my pair first proves KZ does have some operational BA's and second as mentioned before my BA10's are my absolute best sounding all BA iem I own. Not too mention gorgeous


And the mid and high BAs in my ZS7 appear to be working as well!


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> And the mid and high BAs in my ZS7 appear to be working as well!


On that I concur as well Nim  Something about these Z guys and their Lucky # 7's


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> On that I concur as well Nim  Something about these Z guys and their Lucky # 7's


That cable on your ZS7s looks like the one I have!


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Still love my BA10's in Emperor Palpatine's favorite colors.


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Still love my BA10's in Emperor Palpatine's favorite colors.


Yes, that's the one I have. They look great, don't they?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Nimweth said:


> Yes, that's the one I have. They look great, don't they?



Yes, agreed. Sound, looks, stock tips - all A+.  I still enjoy all the KZ I've held on to. A bit later in the year I'd like to try some higher cost pairs but it's no emergency.


----------



## Podster (Mar 8, 2022)

Nimweth said:


> That cable on your ZS7s looks like the one I have!


Well we do have good taste Nim, I mean no braggs just facts  I have to admit I stole that line from Walter Brennan (my fathers favorite actor) and I'm sure anyone born after 1960 will have to google him  LOL

@SpaceOperaVillain (every time I read your handle I can't help but think of the Opera Singer in the 5th Element) sorry straying again  I was just going to mention I have some rigs based on Palpatine and Maul's fashion sense as well 





Be4 the Z split!



Lotta Nutz  I mean I am a KZ Walnut guy 



Why yes, I HAVI Nutz




So there is Darth Maul and then there is Cheap Maul Cable dye credit to Greg (Slater)  




Of course I can't leave out old Appletine




Stepping it up a little on this one! Come to think of it this shot may just get me kicked off the forum


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Yes, agreed. Sound, looks, stock tips - all A+.  I still enjoy all the KZ I've held on to. A bit later in the year I'd like to try some higher cost pairs but it's no emergency.


I recently got the AST. It is very good, sort of complementary to the BA10, it is better technically, but the BA10 is more musical.


----------



## JazzVinyl (Mar 8, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> It's it a fair point, @sakt1moko. I see a lot of uproar on photography forums about lenses. Someone gets an optical test chart printed up then starts testing out a few snaps in their living room or whatever. A bit of hilarity ensues, lots of keyboard lab-coats pile in with figures and technical terms ... and then eventually comes the depressing conclusion that to get a good lens you need to order 3-5 of them from a place that accepts returns, actually do some minor tests yourself, and then keep the best one.



I knew a fellow in the early 1980's who was a professional commercial photographer.  He only used Nikon 35mm.  All his stuff was exceptionally SHARP.  I asked him once how he shot sharper images with Nikon 35mm than everyone else, who all carried pro (and very expensive) Hasselblad gear,

He said...when he ordered a lens, he put it through extensive testing.  He knew at which distances at what f stops, it was "exceptionally sharp".  He then adjusted his shooting style to "fit this rage" within each lens.

He also said he would buy 5 or more copies of the lens, extensively test them all, and return all but the one that was "truly exceptional" at some some distances at some f stops.

 This was back in the film days...long before digital.

He also owned a Hasselblad camera and lens, that he would "show up with", when applying for a gig, because he said he knew the Art Director would "expect him to have one", but his entire portfolio was actually all shot with 35mm Nikon gear.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ´s official answer: 



https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/t9n01e/kzs_statement


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Podster said:


> every time I read your handle I can't help but think of the Opera Singer in the 5th Element



You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar! Summoning thoughts of scifi movies was indeed the goal. Soprano Inva Mula wasn't the villain but that piece she sang is close enough! 

That's a cracking red/black collection you've got there. I sorely need to up my organization skills. That spread is incredible! I keep all my IEM draped over an empty monitor arm at my desk, cables hanging like entrails, IEM dangling in the air like some kind of grizzly trophy. My wife complains about it each time she enters my office. It makes it easy to grab and use though and I rarely deal with tangles. It's just that is has all the vibes of Conan's home village, après la visit from the Snake Cult. 



Nimweth said:


> I recently got the AST. It is very good, sort of complementary to the BA10, it is better technically, but the BA10 is more musical.



Soon ... very soon.  I'd like to pair those with an ESS Sabre based DAC but can't make up my mind on which one to get.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Mar 8, 2022)

JazzVinyl said:


> I knew a fellow in the early 1980's who was a professional commercial photographer.  He only used Nikon 35mm.  All his stuff was exceptionally SHARP.  I asked him once how he shot sharper images with Nikon 35mm than everyone else, who all carried pro (and very expensive) Hasselblad gear,
> 
> He said...when he ordered a lens, he put it through extensive testing.  He knew at which distances at what f stops, it was "exceptionally sharp".  He then adjusted his shooting style to "fit this rage" within each lens.
> 
> ...



That's how it's done. Great story about the stage prop role of his Hasseblad. Hilarious!

There are a lot of people that spend big bucks on f1.* lenses instead of hunting for sharp copies of f3.5 or f4 lenses at 1/3 or 1/4 of the cost. Rookie mistakes and the tell-tale sign of a wealthy amateur with no imagination, a leased BMW and a house full of modern furnishings restricted to clear fluids. 

Apologies, I just had some kinda ex-GF flashback.


----------



## Podster

Indeed she was not the villain (that was Zorg) but I conjured that entire fight seen while she was performing the first time I saw "SpaceOperaVillain"  As for the cable management SWMBO laid the law down on me and my "at home workdesk/space" just yesterday morning (they let me know you were gone, sorry slipped track again)! She said your back at the office now and I want this cleaned up which as all smart husbands would reply "Yes Mam"  One must choose their battles wisely, besides I've not moved a thing yet  I will say KZ offers a lot for the money no matter how you slice it  Golden oldies and I had to back track a few like the RingIron because my first KZ was the unbelievable..................................................................





They are still in a break neck tie with the venerable Sony 755's for best bargain in portable audio although one requires a whole lot more juice to get you out the atmosphere


----------



## PROblemdetected

Wanna join to the BA10 gang, probably one of the best chifi iem all time.

The last KZ iem that I like was the ASX.
I dont like the DQ6 (uncomfortable)
And the KZ zex pro (Ive got the preCRN version) didnt satisfy me at all.


----------



## Podster

sakt1moko said:


> Wanna join to the BA10 gang, probably one of the best chifi iem all time.
> 
> The last KZ iem that I like was the ASX.
> I dont like the DQ6 (uncomfortable)
> And the KZ zex pro (Ive got the preCRN version) didnt satisfy me at all.


You have a nice collection, I only have 5 of the 12. The Terminators were my last KZ purchase still have my KZ Andromeda (always appreciated the Big Balls approach)   series with original Gray 5's,Gray (Supposedly bass enhanced) 6's as well 6's in Black, Red and dare I say Campfire GREEN  of course in their endless pursuit (and member feedback) the 7's are the fashizzle dizzle on this design IMO  





Love those black CCA's and I gotta have a link to the black KZ's with the gold (are those the ASF's)?


----------



## PROblemdetected (Mar 8, 2022)

Podster said:


> You have a nice collection, I only have 5 of the 12. The Terminators were my last KZ purchase still have my KZ Andromeda (always appreciated the Big Balls approach)   series with original Gray 5's,Gray (Supposedly bass enhanced) 6's as well 6's in Black, Red and dare I say Campfire GREEN  of course in their endless pursuit (and member feedback) the 7's are the fashizzle dizzle on this design IMO
> 
> 
> 
> Love those black CCA's and I gotta have a link to the black KZ's with the gold (are those the ASF's)?


BA10, AS12, ASX. ZS6, QT2, ZS7
ZSX, DQ6, ZEXpro, AS10, CCA CRA, CCA CA16

€ 96,83  60%de DESCUENTO | KZ ASX-auriculares con micrófono, dispositivo de audio estéreo deportivo con graves de alta fidelidad, Monitor de oído equilibrado, con cancelación de ruido, 20 unidades
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vor071

I get them on preorder and preIOSS for around 60€


----------



## G777

sakt1moko said:


> Wanna join to the BA10 gang, probably one of the best chifi iem all time.
> 
> The last KZ iem that I like was the ASX.
> I dont like the DQ6 (uncomfortable)
> And the KZ zex pro (Ive got the preCRN version) didnt satisfy me at all.


What are your thoughts on the AS12?


----------



## saldsald (Mar 8, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Need standardized input per the test specs as well.  Since KZ are making clones of the knowles units and don't publish the specs it's hard to know if they're built to the same sensitivity/perf, but an interesting test would be to bench one that match up numbers wise to a knowles equivalent and test the kz output at output values listed for the knowles. I think the results of such a test are potentially far more incriminating than these tear down dead-driver claims. Things like unit variation and defect rates need to be factored in also to choose a suitable sample size for conclusive results, and we're not privy to any of that information.


I actually have tested and extracted the drivers from 5 pairs of CCA CSN (XUN +30095) and I think the unit variation was fine. Also, the external shell quality of these drivers was much better than expected, just like Knowles in fact.



The thing is they act like tweeters to add spicy to the mix so even they have a huge unit variation they can still make the unit to sound very similar. Most people just have a wrong understanding of how IEMs are tuned and having minimal sound from these drivers doesn't mean they are dummies. If they are tuned louder all these IEMs should have very weird looking peaks and troughs across the SPL, sometimes like TRN's graphs.

The DQ6s as admitted by KZ has QC issue but not fake drivers. I just hope people are accusing them for the right thing even this has to be turned viral.


----------



## RyuzakiL26

Damn, I hope everyone will donate their extra copy of every KZ multi-driver iems and undergo crossover test. I have now doubts if my BA10 and ZSX are working at 100%, I mean all drivers are working / contributing to the SQ - not the "working but insignificant to the SQ". 😅


----------



## voicemaster

sakt1moko said:


> Maybe all this noise bring us a new opportunity to learn about what we are buying...


Yes, buy single DD/planar IEM. Problem solved!!


----------



## riodgarp

real or just gimmick 3 dd at least my dq6 sounds good


----------



## UnderpathBum

riodgarp said:


> real or just gimmick 3 dd at least my dq6 sounds good


I was enjoying my DQ6s' all 3 dd until this fiasco.  Now I have to put it aside because I can clearly hear only 1 dd is working.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

voicemaster said:


> Yes, buy single DD/planar IEM. Problem solved!!


Good idea. BA only IEMs have turned out to be so sensitive that many sources are unusable.

BAs are honestly far too sensitive for most audio dongles.


----------



## baskingshark (Mar 9, 2022)

voicemaster said:


> Yes, buy single DD/planar IEM. Problem solved!!



Errr actually no. DD materials can be faked too.

Like purported beryllium drivers being hyped by manufacturers for advertisement/marketing gimmicks:

*Case in point: BGVP DN2:*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bgv...d-new-ba-series.894331/page-327#post-15987274
https://www.facebook.com/groups/audioreviews/permalink/4831960826844190/



Last year was the year of the beryllium hypetrain, and every cat and dog and manufacturer wanted to ride on this claim for their DDs. TBH, I tried some beryllium DD sets that didn't sound any better than conventional drivers. Besides, beryllium is toxic to process, I wonder how some of these companies charge sub $30 USD for "beryllium" IEMs, when one has to factor in the added costs for safety/personal protection equipment for labour for beryllium materials (perhaps CHIFI don't care about their workers?)


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

baskingshark said:


> Errr actually no. DD materials can be faked too.
> 
> Like purported beryllium drivers being hyped by manufacturers for advertisement/marketing gimmicks:
> 
> ...



This is worse than KZs BA scandal and you've been rightly calling it out for awhile. I feel like we have to take our pound of the blame, though, as consumers.  

We can blame it on fashion and keeping-up-with-the-Joneses type thinking, but all this mania is driven by ... 1) us, COVID confined, addiction prone personalities that have chosen head-fi gear over drinking or gambling or some other life destroying thing that requires rehab and spending the rest of your days in a sober and joyless bitterness after a 6 month stint in rehab, surrounded by complete jacka$$es and psycopaths claiming to know your childhood better than you do, and also 2) the wheels of progress. 

So what we have here with beryllium is that a feisty startup produced an exotic coated driver to break away from the herd, it caught on and drove sales with high accolades in the reviews, then everyone else was left scrambling to remain relevant driven by panicked sales executives demanding this new wonder material in a new product or face shutting the doors for good. This isn't new or news.

This kind of nonsense occurs everywhere, in fact, not just HiFi. I present to you OLED. But not all heroes wear capes:  notably, I would point to KOSS' titanium coated drivers on the KTX PRO1 that still sound wonderful, are dirt cheap to make and can be bought for a song. I think these came out in the early oughts - Amazon says 2001. But they're not IEM. They look like something that nerds wear to Comic Con as part of their costume.  I had a pair that I used in private, connected to my juiced up PC with a Creative Labs Sound Blaster sound card but they broke and I never replaced 'em. I was already listening to my Grados at the time the most, and figured that I already served my time rocking Porta-Pros in the early 90's when the big competition was coming from the Realistic house brand of Radio Shack. 






I feel that we need to look ourselves first for accountability. By our own hands ChiFi has taken some beatings trying to drive sales with sensible designs made with exotic-yet-well known materials. There are two high quality products at fair prices that I'm thinking of, and both are single dynamics. 

1) KBEAR's Aurora uses titanium coatings, 
2) Moondrop's KATO utilizes Diamond-like Carbon (DLC), another proven material that's chemically inert and completely nontoxic. 

Respectively each of these firms have spent a _solid_ chunk of their advertising budget promoting these IEM but, from an amateurs view of the market, have not seemed to rack up much in the way of runaway success on the sales front. The broader IEM market is routinely disinterested in them, despite a solid stream of reviews for each, and is constantly distracted by hypetrains, guru collaborators, and the eternal thirst for the new new thing. 

The only downside to titanium and DLC coatings is that they're not new, they don't have any obvious flaws to drive Devil's Advocate sales (*cough* GK10 *cough*), and they don't color the sound artificially enough to draw raving proclamations of 3D spaces and being drawn spiritually nearer to the ghost realm of dead rock stars.   

Let's briefly investigate the IEM Executive's sales formula bingo card. Which ones _have you _fallen for_? _It includes: 

a) absurdly high driver count 
b) exotic driver tech (EST/MST/Piezo/Bone conductor)
c) exotic film/coating tech on the primary dynamic driver  
d) ridiculous packaging and/or accessory bundles that are 80% useless
e) any and all combinations of a-d that might resemble a unique offering in a crowded market. 

I'm guilty of loving and recc'ing several combinations here myself. But I'm a soulless capitalist. For me, this is just how Free Markets (TM) work. Without this process, we'd just be arguing about which colors on yaxi pads shift the frequency response around the most on our porta-pros.


----------



## baskingshark

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> This is worse than KZs BA scandal and you've been rightly calling it out for awhile. I feel like we have to take our pound of the blame, though, as consumers.
> 
> We can blame it on fashion and keeping-up-with-the-Joneses type thinking, but all this mania is driven by ... 1) us, COVID confined, addiction prone personalities that have chosen head-fi gear over drinking or gambling or some other life destroying thing that requires rehab and spending the rest of your days in a sober and joyless bitterness after a 6 month stint in rehab, surrounded by complete jacka$$es and psycopaths claiming to know your childhood better than you do, and also 2) the wheels of progress.
> 
> ...



Well said haha.

Just to add, another sure win formula for sales = put waifu anime babe packaging LOL.


----------



## InvisibleInk

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> us, COVID confined, addiction prone personalities that have chosen head-fi gear over drinking or gambling or some other life destroying thing that requires rehab and spending the rest of your days in a sober and joyless bitterness after a 6 month stint in rehab, surrounded by complete jacka$$es and psycopaths claiming to know your childhood better than you do, and also 2) the wheels of progress.



Sorry to hear that, buddy. The drugs are working, though, amirite?


----------



## ExTubeGamer

EST drivers sound like especially peaky BAs. This was my exp with Shuoer IEMs. I don't really see the point.


----------



## PROblemdetected (Mar 9, 2022)

G777 said:


> What are your thoughts on the AS12?



I carried them today to my job.

Setup is BTR3K, Kbear Rhyme 2.5 cable and kbear silicone white tips (open)
I usually play with foam tips on BA-only iems, but I wanna try them without enhanced bass, so these are my impressions:
-Comparing with BA10, that I assume is a W-shape iem, these AS12 are less miss bassy and more sub-bass, but still having that W-shape setup to my ears
-The upper mids are cleary pushed up, making the higg frecuencies a little bit relaxed
- BA10 and ASX are a little vit funnier or vibrant, this is more neutral.

To clarify, I tried expensives BA-only iems, and KZ ones still having an unique tonality, no matter how many of the 6ba per side are really working (maybe 3?)

And the holographic presentation and layering still surprise me, still hard to believe that sny of them are dummies...

EDIT. My playlist is electronic focused. Right now im playing this album

https://tidal.com/album/157152447


----------



## PROblemdetected

ExTubeGamer said:


> EST drivers sound like especially peaky BAs. This was my exp with Shuoer IEMs. I don't really see the point.


From an TRI STARLIGHT user. EST could give so much detail on the high frecuencies than a BA.


----------



## yaps66

sakt1moko said:


> From an TRI STARLIGHT user. EST could give so much detail on the high frecuencies than a BA.


+1


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

ExTubeGamer said:


> Good idea. BA only IEMs have turned out to be so sensitive that many sources are unusable.
> 
> BAs are honestly far too sensitive for most audio dongles.


BA10 works fine with my CX39133 DAC.


----------



## Nimweth

I have been trying out the AST with a Faaeal Hibiscus copper cable and KBEAR wide bore tips. The copper makes a big difference to the sub bass, much more depth and a bit more warmth in mid bass and the mids. I really like this combination.


----------



## seanwee

ExTubeGamer said:


> EST drivers sound like especially peaky BAs. This was my exp with Shuoer IEMs. I don't really see the point.


They are best used in hybrids to handle the highs. They don't do well standalone


----------



## RikudouGoku

ExTubeGamer said:


> EST drivers sound like especially peaky BAs. This was my exp with Shuoer IEMs. I don't really see the point.


Are you referring to the Tape driver? Cuz that aint an EST, thats an MST and its actually supposedly the same as in the CRN according to Crin.


Source:



https://crinacle.com/2022/03/07/the-crn-kz-situation/




https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-world-s-first-magneto-static-earphone-hpsd-e70#/


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

baskingshark said:


> Just to add, another sure win formula for sales = put waifu anime babe packaging LOL.



lol - especially waifu! the absence of waifu was a big reason I've stuck to trying new KZ units. My wife would never stop making fun of me. I'd have to immediately destroy the box and find a way to conceal my shame after admitting to another purchase. 



InvisibleInk said:


> Sorry to hear that, buddy. The drugs are working, though, amirite?



Sorry to disappoint, but no. LOL


----------



## Podster (Mar 9, 2022)

sakt1moko said:


> BA10, AS12, ASX. ZS6, QT2, ZS7
> ZSX, DQ6, ZEXpro, AS10, CCA CRA, CCA CA16
> 
> € 96,83  60%de DESCUENTO | KZ ASX-auriculares con micrófono, dispositivo de audio estéreo deportivo con graves de alta fidelidad, Monitor de oído equilibrado, con cancelación de ruido, 20 unidades
> ...


THX, just tossed a pair of those babies into my current AliEx cart  I'll see what kind of challenge these give my HQ12's 

So is/are the ASX's one of the multi BA's you were finding with some glued shut ports on the BA's?

That's it, you guys are forcing me to change my Avi again  (My 7 year old Grandson is hooked on Dragonball Z and after his last birthday my wallet knows first hand)


----------



## PROblemdetected

Podster said:


> THX, just tossed a pair of those babies into my current AliEx cart  I'll see what kind of challenge these give my HQ12's
> 
> So is/are the ASX's one of the multi BA's you were finding with some glued shut ports on the BA's?
> 
> That's it, you guys are forcing me to change my Avi again  (My 7 year old Grandson is hooked on Dragonball Z and after his last birthday my wallet knows first hand)


ASX not been analysed yet, so nobody knows...

I would recommend another brands for the actual price of the ASX


----------



## ExTubeGamer

Might be fun to use the big KZ shells and mod them. New driver combinations.


----------



## Podster

sakt1moko said:


> ASX not been analysed yet, so nobody knows...
> 
> I would recommend another brands for the actual price of the ASX


So how do you compare the BA10 to ASX? I'm curious how doubling the driver count sounds especially with all those driver upgrades.


----------



## PROblemdetected

Podster said:


> So how do you compare the BA10 to ASX? I'm curious how doubling the driver count sounds especially with all those driver upgrades.


BA10 is the best BA ever made under 100€.

ASX is bulky, and u need a nice pair of foam tips to give them some coherence.
For 90€ is a big NO.

If u want to spend some money, try some Nf Audio NA2, Tin hifi 4, for example.


----------



## ChrisOc

sakt1moko said:


> From an TRI STARLIGHT user. EST could give so much detail on the high frecuencies than a BA.


Add another!


----------



## G777

sakt1moko said:


> I carried them today to my job.
> 
> Setup is BTR3K, Kbear Rhyme 2.5 cable and kbear silicone white tips (open)
> I usually play with foam tips on BA-only iems, but I wanna try them without enhanced bass, so these are my impressions:
> ...


Thanks for the impressions.

I think all of the BAs in the AS12 should be functional. They are configured into 3 pairs (2 bass, 2 mids, 2 treble BAs), so if each of the 3 types of BAs are working, then they should all be working. I will try to confirm this when I get my AS12.


----------



## riodgarp

UnderpathBum said:


> I was enjoying my DQ6s' all 3 dd until this fiasco.  Now I have to put it aside because I can clearly hear only 1 dd is working.


really? wow you have a dolphin's hearing hehehe


----------



## MacAttack7

I'm rethinking this whole silly hobby now. If the most popular reviewers can't tell if they are listening to one driver or multiple drivers, then what reason is there to ever have more than one driver? Prior to this happening I was also always wondering how a reviewer could go on & on about a fancy $500 IEM, and then people would buy them and quite a few wouldn't even like them. I always thought if I bought a $500 IEM it would blow me away, but now I don't think that at all.

I really don't think even the most popular reviewers could tell the difference between a $50 IEM and a $500 IEM if it was a blind test. This is kind of a silly hobby. Once you have an IEM that plays your music without any glaringly obvious flaws then there's really nowhere else to go. You're done. That's it. You've reached the limitation of what an IEM can do. There's no more magic left in the bottle!

Let me go see what's on AliExpress now. Since my DQ6 only has one working driver, I feel like I need to find a replacement.


----------



## requal (Mar 10, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm rethinking this whole silly hobby now. If the most popular reviewers can't tell if they are listening to one driver or multiple drivers, then what reason is there to ever have more than one driver? Prior to this happening I was also always wondering how a reviewer could go on & on about a fancy $500 IEM, and then people would buy them and quite a few wouldn't even like them. I always thought if I bought a $500 IEM it would blow me away, but now I don't think that at all.
> 
> I really don't think even the most popular reviewers could tell the difference between a $50 IEM and a $500 IEM if it was a blind test. This is kind of a silly hobby. Once you have an IEM that plays your music without any glaringly obvious flaws then there's really nowhere else to go. You're done. That's it. You've reached the limitation of what an IEM can do. There's no more magic left in the bottle!
> 
> Let me go see what's on AliExpress now. Since my DQ6 only has one working driver, I feel like I need to find a replacement.


I think the same. I have auditioned over a hundred of them, the more expensive and cheaper ones, and I have always been amazed at the impact of expectations. Unfortunately, even the most expensive in-ear headphones still have disadvantages (sharp treble, lack of coherence, etc.), so often are the cheaper ones. The range from $ 15 to $ 500 is very blurred in itself, going over 1k is not worth. I think that a blind test in most cases in this price range would not be able to verify the quality. Eventually, I doubted the merits of creating descriptions of these subtle sensations. I have Dunu Est112 but I don't think they are outstanding headphones. It does a lot, and maybe even does the adaptation process - "warming up" in the brain. At last.. Dunu were for me somewhat better then very mediocre Moondrop Blessing2.. Game starts again when excitation falls...


----------



## riodgarp

I also thinking of myself being silly listening to my gear using music, in the past I would just happy listening to my favorit music using same gear


----------



## PROblemdetected

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm rethinking this whole silly hobby now. If the most popular reviewers can't tell if they are listening to one driver or multiple drivers, then what reason is there to ever have more than one driver? Prior to this happening I was also always wondering how a reviewer could go on & on about a fancy $500 IEM, and then people would buy them and quite a few wouldn't even like them. I always thought if I bought a $500 IEM it would blow me away, but now I don't think that at all.
> 
> I really don't think even the most popular reviewers could tell the difference between a $50 IEM and a $500 IEM if it was a blind test. This is kind of a silly hobby. Once you have an IEM that plays your music without any glaringly obvious flaws then there's really nowhere else to go. You're done. That's it. You've reached the limitation of what an IEM can do. There's no more magic left in the bottle!
> 
> Let me go see what's on AliExpress now. Since my DQ6 only has one working driver, I feel like I need to find a replacement.



Think about people who chat about the differences about cables.
Or the ones who use salad words to write about an iem.

This hobby is not so hard to understand, u dont need golden ears to appreciate the quality of a product, just need to enjoy music with them.

Im on the same boat than u, I start on this hobby with a Sennheiser 598 and kz Ba10, after 2 years my collection grows, and u know what? It almost didn't make a difference.

Yeah, aryas got an impressive stage, the musicality of the aeon flow is nice, the details on the tri starlight are insane...
But they sound sometimes unnatural because they are trying to be special.

Just enjoy music, try and test... 

PD. Now the reviewers are worried about the quality of the produxt with her names on it... And after all this problems one of them starts to open them and make some test... Why didnt make it before the launch?


----------



## saldsald (Mar 10, 2022)

sakt1moko said:


> PD. Now the reviewers are worried about the quality of the produxt with her names on it... And after all this problems one of them starts to open them and make some test... Why didnt make it before the launch?


Very good question indeed! I think it tells how little they are involved in the tuning and production processes. I mean, as if they didn't even know what's really inside.


----------



## jananan78

i think different iems only have different sound signatures as they use different drivers and materials and different cavity for soundstage and separation. there is no saying which is best as different iems suit different songs. single DD and single BA is good enough and the other improvements only have small effects on the sound. who's to say my creative ep630 sounds worse than a 12 BA configuration, no offense to anyone. 

i think we all can agree that BA improves the high FR of a DD iem and everything else is just variations from there and it's not a matter of which is better, again no offense to anyone. 

when a good quality single DD can produce most frequencies like the CRA, the rest of the drivers just provide variations on the sound signatures. 

personally i think a good quality single DD coupled with a good quality BA is good enough for most songs. anything more like multiple DD and multiple BA and EST crammed into a tiny shell doesn't help much with producing a cohesive sound that suits all genres. 

buying a perfect iem only works if you plan to listen to the same song over and over again everyday experimenting on what sounds good only to find that perfection you discovered for song A doesn't suit song B at all. and then rinse repeat all over again on the quest to find the perfect pair, again.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

According to my experience, many multi driver IEMs suffer from bad tuning compared to single driver IEMs.

Single DD IEMs can be detected by their precise tuning.


----------



## jananan78

riodgarp said:


> I also thinking of myself being silly listening to my gear using music, in the past I would just happy listening to my favorit music using same gear


yeah totally agree


----------



## jananan78

saldsald said:


> Very good question indeed! I think it tells how little they are involved in the tuning and production processes. I mean, as if they didn't even know what's really inside.


i think most reviewers can tell the difference between a DD driver and BA because even i can sometimes tell if there is a BA involved but when more than just 2 drivers are crammed into a shell things go downhill from there as there are many overlapping sounds.


----------



## jananan78

this is just my personal opinion,i am not sure if anyone hears this but I feel with kz their high frequencies are always either too much being harsh and sibilant or too less that it's inaudible because it's tuned with too less treble extension. they just can't tune it right when it comes to BAs. they have come a long way with DD though. that's why i think they should pair their DD with a well tuned BA, surely a winner. again just my personal opinion...


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Mar 10, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm rethinking this whole silly hobby now. If the most popular reviewers can't tell if they are listening to one driver or multiple drivers, then what reason is there to ever have more than one driver? Prior to this happening I was also always wondering how a reviewer could go on & on about a fancy $500 IEM, and then people would buy them and quite a few wouldn't even like them. I always thought if I bought a $500 IEM it would blow me away, but now I don't think that at all.
> 
> I really don't think even the most popular reviewers could tell the difference between a $50 IEM and a $500 IEM if it was a blind test. This is kind of a silly hobby. Once you have an IEM that plays your music without any glaringly obvious flaws then there's really nowhere else to go. You're done. That's it. You've reached the limitation of what an IEM can do. There's no more magic left in the bottle!
> 
> Let me go see what's on AliExpress now. Since my DQ6 only has one working driver, I feel like I need to find a replacement.



At the thick outer circle of people engaged in any hobby is the consumer's emotional cycle from building anticipation, the purchase event and experience, and the emotional release during a honeymoon phase with the product. It has nothing to do with the subject of the hobby. It's about fulfilling unmet emotional needs through the camaraderie experienced by a group of peers during the purchase process and a subsequent attachment to merchandise which represents membership to a group. The subject matter of the hobby is just a context for the sale of goods and a pretext for the emotional bonds with the club i.e. tribe.

And so what if it is. What else are you gonna do? Feel free to discover day trading or real estate clubs. 

Admit it: you want to ditch your DQ6 because that bond has been tarnished and you seek renewal and acceptance into a new and enlightened group of peers. You don't want to be left dangling like that as a mark, or a sucker.

Well, I thought the DQ6 was great for loud radio rock and I fully stand by that assessment. If it's just trash to you now then ask yourself why you want to throw it away. Is it because it doesn't meet your standard for quality? Or is it because you're still permitting someone else to lead you around by the nose with sentiments, people who  back up their claims with slight-of-hand and junk science, which is in and of itself just another grift?  

The stonewall rule of head-fi is that price is not an indication of sound quality. This is the hardened inner core of the hobby. Hearing and listening are different things. The latter is largely a trained activity. We've all got mostly the same equipment for hearing, but it takes time and skill development to move past the strictly gear side of the hifi hobby and to concentrate on listening. Most of the disappointed people here are casual, passive listeners who feel betrayed. Well, a considerably high number of people in this thread and on this forum are good listeners and quite critical of the gear they buy and keep. 

Upgrade into head-fi on the whole and turn off YouTube and then this hobby will go a bit better for you. We come here to share experiences and make our choices, not to get caught up emotionally in online hype trains or the subsequent drama. I really wish people would stop dragging it here. I'm sick of people crapping on our front porch. If that's you, then be gone.

I personally wish KZ had never stooped themselves  to these collaboration exercises, but times are tough, and they're doing what they can to stay in business and drive growth. If you don't see value in that, then move to the country and start an organic dairy farm or whatever and leave those of us left here alone.  If you want to keep learning, mind the porch and you'll see that the door here is wide open.

My .03


----------



## phower

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm rethinking this whole silly hobby now. If the most popular reviewers can't tell if they are listening to one driver or multiple drivers, then what reason is there to ever have more than one driver? Prior to this happening I was also always wondering how a reviewer could go on & on about a fancy $500 IEM, and then people would buy them and quite a few wouldn't even like them. I always thought if I bought a $500 IEM it would blow me away, but now I don't think that at all.
> 
> I really don't think even the most popular reviewers could tell the difference between a $50 IEM and a $500 IEM if it was a blind test. This is kind of a silly hobby. Once you have an IEM that plays your music without any glaringly obvious flaws then there's really nowhere else to go. You're done. That's it. You've reached the limitation of what an IEM can do. There's no more magic left in the bottle!
> 
> Let me go see what's on AliExpress now. Since my DQ6 only has one working driver, I feel like I need to find a replacement.


Finally, you are enlightened. There is very little development in driver technology in the last 25 years or so. A PET/Mylar DD from 30 years ago still delivers amazing sound quality if tuned correctly and hence why Sennheiser or Focal didn't jump onto BA/piezo/planar drivers. 

All of these technologies are actually quiet old. They have existed for more than 30-40 years and didn't become popular because of several disadvantages. 

DD is still the king and for me $10 ED9 from KZ is amazing value and I don't need any crazy multi driver IEM with their own crossover distortion and associated problems.


----------



## RikudouGoku

KZ AS16, half the treble drivers arent even connected. 🤦‍♂️


----------



## MacAttack7 (Mar 10, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ AS16, half the treble drivers arent even connected. 🤦‍♂️


Sounds like this may not be accurate per saldsald's comment below.
I still have hope that my ASX & AST are legit!


----------



## saldsald (Mar 10, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> KZ AS16, half the treble drivers arent even connected. 🤦‍♂️


    
Do some fact check before accusing please. That is the correct wiring of 31736... this took me 20s btw.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MacAttack7 said:


> No way! If this is true, this company is done for.
> Who wants to sacrifice some more KZ earphones to see what else is going on inside some of their other models?
> 
> I bought two of the AST's....ugh....I'm guessing they got me!
> ...


nvm, the picture source checked again and it is wired.


----------



## MacAttack7

RikudouGoku said:


> nvm, the picture source checked again and it is wired.


KZ is saved!


----------



## saldsald

MacAttack7 said:


> KZ is saved!


Too many heros-wanna-be sadly.


----------



## RikudouGoku

MacAttack7 said:


> KZ is saved!


Their older stuff seems to be safe, cant say the same for the newer ones. (CA16 Pro, CA24, DQ6, DQ6S, NRA, ZES, ZEX, and ZEX Pro/CRN)

https://www.headphonesty.com/2022/03/kz-fake-multi-driver-iem-scandal/


----------



## r31ya (Mar 10, 2022)

From KZ official response, It seems the train of thought is,
_"People have complaining about our sharp metallic BA and some complain a bit about incoherence in the multi driver setup. Should we get better driver and multi driver tuning?"
"No, its expensive. Let's just put crossover and resistor to make that BA and supporting driver barely audible so it won't be a problem"_

Which possibly the reason why, despite shitloads of BA, KZ still somehow get rolled off treble.
It kinda works, since i doesn't particularly fond of KZ old Multi driver as it seems every driver screeching on their own indisregard on song harmony. The newer setup is somewhat better, well through wrong method which also cost them the actual treble details.
Depending on the unit, the multi driver sound layering still there, like in ZEX Pro which still outmatch Aria in separation and layering. Aria still outperform it in every other factor but still.

Again, if they basically choose to put 1 DD and 5 cheap BA only to choke that 5BA, why don't they get 1 DD and good 1 BA?
TRN TA1 have works wonders and on that end and it seems its the way to go for Fiio and the like.


----------



## voicemaster

I think KZ just overpromised and using "look I have XX drivers" to lure people while they are lazy and take a shortcut by using dummy drivers (the drivers are not fake).


----------



## voicemaster

r31ya said:


> From KZ official response, It seems the train of thought is,
> _"People have complaining about our sharp metallic BA and some complain a bit about incoherence in the multi driver setup. Should we get better driver and multi driver tuning?"
> "No, its expensive. Let's just put crossover and resistor to make that BA and supporting driver barely audible so it won't be a problem"_
> 
> ...


Because we as customer also kinda demand this multi drivers stuff.


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> Again, if they basically choose to put 1 DD and 5 cheap BA only to choke that 5BA, why don't they get 1 DD and good 1 BA?
> TRN TA1 have works wonders and on that end and it seems its the way to go for Fiio and the like.



The lay consumer is tricked when they see multi driver behemoths from TRN and KZ's ilk. They equate moooooooooore drivers = better sound, which is a fallacy. 

It is all about the tuning and implementation (or lack thereof, in KZ's case). I've tried some single DD sets that have better coherency, technicalities and timbre than these multidriver behemoths.

The budget segment is so competitive, that these manufacturers need something to stand out from the fierce competition, so usual marketing ploys like more driver count, novel materials (eg beryllium), exotic drivers (eg planar/"EST" aka electret/magnetostat) and waifu anime packaging are employed. 

The other business model (which companies like KZ and BLON are infamous for), is to throw out multiple sidegrades every few weeks, in the hope that something finally sticks on the wall.


----------



## lushmelody

It was fun hyping for KZ/CCA because their promise seemed genuine


----------



## InvisibleInk

lushmelody said:


> It was fun hyping for KZ/CCA because their promise seemed genuine


Yeah, I'm real upset, too. Thinking about un-watching this thread and calling it a day on KZ.


----------



## saldsald

I wonder if Crinacle or anybody here is going to open up those kilo-bucks IEMs and measure the SPL, and then find out they all have those "dummy" drivers inisde.


----------



## MacAttack7




----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

phower said:


> DD is still the king and for me $10 ED9 from KZ is amazing value and I don't need any crazy multi driver IEM with their own crossover distortion and associated problems.



I'll see your ED9 and raise you a KBEAR ST1 for $1 more.  Those are every bit as good for me as the CRA, but they've got a fixed wire and 1/8" plug.

Re:tech yes and no. Driver tech is indeed basically the same but manufacturing tech's capabilities in miniaturization and precision s radically improved, which made all of this IEM madness possible. 

I've never spent more than about $250 for a pair of headphones over 30+ years in the audio hobby. Car, home, vinyl, pc, even boat.... If y'all want to lose money fast and be pi$$ed off all the time, buy a boat :^)


----------



## jananan78 (Mar 11, 2022)

r31ya said:


> From KZ official response, It seems the train of thought is,
> _"People have complaining about our sharp metallic BA and some complain a bit about incoherence in the multi driver setup. Should we get better driver and multi driver tuning?"
> "No, its expensive. Let's just put crossover and resistor to make that BA and supporting driver barely audible so it won't be a problem"_
> 
> ...


exactly... agree on the treble roll off part.


----------



## JEHL

I'd actually hope their... actual single driver IEMs like the CCA CRA don't get any flak for all of this. We should boycott what companies do wrong, but still reward what is done right.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

I can actually prove that the BAs in my KZ AST work. When using EQ you can hear coherency issues and crossover across the entire frequency range.


----------



## PROblemdetected

ExTubeGamer said:


> According to my experience, many multi driver IEMs suffer from bad tuning compared to single driver IEMs.
> 
> Single DD IEMs can be detected by their precise tuning.


DD could be more natural than hybrid
But the detail, imaging and layering of the tribirds I thin they are a few over a single dynamic.

Anyways, u can get both kind of iems, they could be compatible. 🤙🤙

Im more on the ecualization than the technology used on the capsule


----------



## PROblemdetected

jananan78 said:


> this is just my personal opinion,i am not sure if anyone hears this but I feel with kz their high frequencies are always either too much being harsh and sibilant or too less that it's inaudible because it's tuned with too less treble extension. they just can't tune it right when it comes to BAs. they have come a long way with DD though. that's why i think they should pair their DD with a well tuned BA, surely a winner. again just my personal opinion...


Used the KZ with ba (for example ZS6) with a foam tips and enjoy one of the best hybrids under 25€.


----------



## rayliam80

I think the KZ thread is one of the greatest threads on Head-Fi. I'm still waiting for some random person to pop in and say that they've just finished reading all 3919 pages or whatever the latest page count is...

And with that, I'm still enjoying my umm...single (?) dynamic DQ6 (modded) that fits my ears like a glove. And the CRA, and other assorted IEMs lurking in a desk drawer that's full of IEMs and related paraphernalia (tips, dongles, cables) now.


----------



## r31ya (Mar 11, 2022)

rayliam80 said:


> I think the KZ thread is one of the greatest threads on Head-Fi. I'm still waiting for some random person to pop in and say that they've just finished reading all 3919 pages or whatever the latest page count is...
> 
> And with that, I'm still enjoying my umm...single (?) dynamic DQ6 (modded) that fits my ears like a glove. And the CRA, and other assorted IEMs lurking in a desk drawer that's full of IEMs and related paraphernalia (tips, dongles, cables) now.


Well, i never bought expensive kz ($50~120+) as to me, there are many better option from "upper budget" brand in that territory. so i can't speak on those things.
For sub $40? eh, good sound is good sound (they need to fix the QC and misleading design for future products tough)

QC issues, crap design, and barely functional (or even non functional) driver is crap thing to have.
however, i rarely bought kz/iem because of the driver count or driver type. (learnt my lesson from s*nfer D*6 pro)
I bought KZ/iem mostly based on, audition result (tough its difficult now), several youtuber reviewer that i follow and the response in head-fi.
I have rather tin can ears, so i tend rely on my more experienced friends and chosen reviewers ears as i learn on whats what.

And so far its pretty damn interesting. ZS5, ZST, ZSN, CST, DQ6, ZEX Pro, and CRA is still pretty damn good.
Some that i bought before pandemic which i could audition it against its peer, from TRN, soundmagic, and the like and it still stands tall.

KZ need to sort this crap out and remember, its the sound-quality/value that draw people in.
And people actually bitch when they start to do more expensive 10+ driver that didn't quite stands against the upper budget peers.


----------



## lushmelody (Mar 11, 2022)

r31ya said:


> Well, i never bought expensive kz ($50~120+) as to me, there are many better option from "upper budget" brand in that territory. so i can't speak on those things.
> For sub $40? eh, good sound is good sound (they need to fix the QC and misleading design for future products tough)
> 
> QC issues, crap design, and barely functional (or even non functional) driver is crap thing to have.
> ...


I trust their QC actually, more than most budget Chi-Fi.

Still, the driver dampening is a double edge strategy.... It works, but as consumers we don't get the actual hardware capability.

At least its just budget, not hundreds or thousands of dollars. Disassemble IEMs, actually, should happen in all price ranges, additional to SQ analysis. That is the whole hobby lesson. For KZ, I don't know what will happen next, maybe they overcome all that, but hyping like before... Not so easily anymore


----------



## r31ya (Mar 11, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> I trust their QC actually, more than most budget Chi-Fi.
> 
> Still, the driver dampening is a double edge strategy.... It works, but as consumers we don't get the actual hardware capability.
> 
> At least its just budget, not hundreds or thousands of dollars. Disassemble IEMs, actually, should happen in all price ranges, additional to SQ analysis. That is the whole hobby lesson. For KZ, I don't know what will happen next, maybe they overcome all that, but hyping like before... Not so easily anymore


Yeah, so far personally, i don't meet much QC problem with KZ.
It's just current report with gluing and it seems problem with the new winged shell, i have to mention it.

KZ is interesting thing that i tried to follow, kinda lost track of it when it release new iem every other week, lost quite much of the exitement when their strategy goes "Moar Driver~!" with similar sound sig, but i still follow it and their cheap iems products still slaps.
Not to mention recent collabs with new sound sig, attempt on minimalist new drivers with the new sound sig direction, get me really interested with KZ again. Then this crap happen.

Yeah, i hope they find a way out of this. be good KZ
I mean, i won't be here if it weren't for KZ who introduce me to Chi-fi.
And that jaben guy who kindly points out to the local chifi store since most of their product is outside my budget.


----------



## PROblemdetected

If this QC issues make the brand reconsider the process and developing of the new iems coming... (Think about the CRA) maybe they start to shine even more.

I can enumerate various mid-fi (sub300) which make worst equipment for more money than KZ


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

sakt1moko said:


> If this QC issues make the brand reconsider the process and developing of the new iems coming... (Think about the CRA) maybe they start to shine even more. I can enumerate various mid-fi (sub300) which make worst equipment for more money than KZ





sakt1moko said:


> If this QC issues make the brand reconsider the process and developing of the new iems coming... (Think about the CRA) maybe they start to shine even more. I can enumerate various mid-fi (sub300) which make worst equipment for more money than KZ





r31ya said:


> Yeah, so far personally, i don't meet much QC problem with KZ. It's just current report with gluing and it seems problem with the new winged shell, i have to mention it. KZ is interesting thing that i tried to follow, kinda lost track of it when it release new iem every other week, lost quite much of the exitement when their strategy goes "Moar Driver~!" with similar sound sig, but i still follow it and their cheap iems products still slaps. Not to mention recent collabs with new sound sig, attempt on minimalist new drivers with the new sound sig direction, get me really interested with KZ again. Then this crap happen. Yeah, i hope they find a way out of this. be good KZ I mean, i won't be here if it weren't for KZ who introduce me to Chi-fi. And that jaben guy who kindly points out to the local chifi store since most of their product is outside my budget.





sakt1moko said:


> If this QC issues make the brand reconsider the process and developing of the new iems coming... (Think about the CRA) maybe they start to shine even more. I can enumerate various mid-fi (sub300) which make worst equipment for more money than KZ





r31ya said:


> Yeah, so far personally, i don't meet much QC problem with KZ. It's just current report with gluing and it seems problem with the new winged shell, i have to mention it. KZ is interesting thing that i tried to follow, kinda lost track of it when it release new iem every other week, lost quite much of the exitement when their strategy goes "Moar Driver~!" with similar sound sig, but i still follow it and their cheap iems products still slaps. Not to mention recent collabs with new sound sig, attempt on minimalist new drivers with the new sound sig direction, get me really interested with KZ again. Then this crap happen. Yeah, i hope they find a way out of this. be good KZ I mean, i won't be here if it weren't for KZ who introduce me to Chi-fi. And that jaben guy who kindly points out to the local chifi store since most of their product is outside my budget.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

We need to find a way to increase the treble on a KZ AST and decrease the bass. The AST is basically KZ endgame if it were tuned right.


----------



## MacAttack7

ExTubeGamer said:


> I can actually prove that the BAs in my KZ AST work. When using EQ you can hear coherency issues and crossover across the entire frequency range.


What do you mean, "When using EQ you can hear coherency issues and crossover across the entire frequency range."?
I'd like to hear that for myself.....do you have a good example? 
I'm not sure what a coherency or crossover issue would sound like.


----------



## phower

ExTubeGamer said:


> We need to find a way to increase the treble on a KZ AST and decrease the bass. The AST is basically KZ endgame if it were tuned right.


That is trivial to do with a PEQ. A high shelf boost & low shelf cut would achieve that. 

With Onkyo HF player, you can try it right now.


----------



## 4ceratops (Mar 11, 2022)

ExTubeGamer said:


> We need to find a way to increase the treble on a KZ AST and decrease the bass. The AST is basically KZ endgame if it were tuned right.


I would rather recommend in the €120+ category to look for IEM that sounds adequate for their price. As a KZ AST owner, I find their sound to be a big muddy mess.


----------



## PROblemdetected

4ceratops said:


> I would rather recommend in the €120+ category to look for IEM that sound adequate for their price. As a KZ AST owner, I find their sound to be a big muddy mess.


If that happens, let me try to fix it.
Im not a eartip brand believer, but try this foams/silicone tips

€ 13,57 | misodiko Mix460 Earbuds Ear Tips Eartips for Jaybird X4 X3 X2, BlueBuds X, Freedom 2, F5/ 1MORE/ Sony MDR XB55AP XB75AP EX650AP
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vYeeSv


----------



## Rocket222 (Mar 11, 2022)

Not sure if this video has been posted here before, but this explains a lot about the recent KZ issue.  You may want to skip the first 12 minutes, talking about his credibility


----------



## ExTubeGamer

MacAttack7 said:


> What do you mean, "When using EQ you can hear coherency issues and crossover across the entire frequency range."?
> I'd like to hear that for myself.....do you have a good example?
> I'm not sure what a coherency or crossover issue would sound like.


This is the EQ I use for my AST:

* 40Hz -3.5dB Q1.50
* 1900Hz -4.0dB Q1.10
* 3400Hz 6.0dB Q1.70
* 5200Hz -8.0dB Q2.00
* 7500Hz +3.0dB Q1.50
* 11000Hz +3.0dB Q1.50

If you play around with the dB levels you can audible notice that the frequency range of the BAs overlap.


----------



## Colin5619

I love the sound of my AST.  I started out years ago trying the ATE and loved it for its price. Upgraded to the Zs6 which I felt sounded even better.  Though I did find it a little hot sounding.  My next upgrade was the ZS10 Pro which I loved and they served me well for several years. handed the ZS6 to my son who preferred them over the Zs10 Pros.  Late last year thought I would try the ZEX Pro, and was disappointed that it didn’t sound to my ears as good as the Zs10 pros I had now given to one of my sons. It sounded too harsh and dry to me, I like a warm  sound.

So I bought the Zs10 Pro again, which I loved.  However I had my 66th birthday coming and treated myself to the ASTs.  

I use a Shanling UA2 dongle on my Mi 11 Ultra, to listen to music. I love it, the soundstage of it never ceases to amaze me, and this combination has enough warmth and details to satisfy me.  Since I have bought the ASTs, I haven’t listened to music as much in close to ten years or so.  They have reawakened my love of music,  which can’t be a bad thing.  I still like the sound of the Zs10 pros, but my wife has them now and enjoys them daily.

By the way, the ZEX Pros are now relegated to sitting alone, unused and unloved.


----------



## InvisibleInk

Colin5619 said:


> are now relegated to sitting alone, unused and unloved



Sadly, that is soon to be fate of all my pokemons. Except for one. I'll keep the AS10 and use it as if none of this depressing episode had ever happened.


----------



## MacAttack7

Colin5619 said:


> I love the sound of my AST.  I started out years ago trying the ATE and loved it for its price. Upgraded to the Zs6 which I felt sounded even better.  Though I did find it a little hot sounding.  My next upgrade was the ZS10 Pro which I loved and they served me well for several years. handed the ZS6 to my son who preferred them over the Zs10 Pros.  Late last year thought I would try the ZEX Pro, and was disappointed that it didn’t sound to my ears as good as the Zs10 pros I had now given to one of my sons. It sounded too harsh and dry to me, I like a warm  sound.
> 
> So I bought the Zs10 Pro again, which I loved.  However I had my 66th birthday coming and treated myself to the ASTs.
> 
> ...


I really like the AST's too. 
I may like the ASX a little better...has a little more punch, but I could listen to either one every day and be fine with both.
I'm not sure if they are good by audiophile standards...probably not, but I can't hear all of those things people point out when critiquing earphones.
I know if an earphone sounds muffled or tinny or bright or warm, but that's about it as far as my listening skills go.


----------



## Nimweth

I really like the AST. It is my favourite all BA IEM along with the BA10. This review sums up what I hear:
https://www.audiophileon.com/news/kz-ast-review
Far from there being too much bass, I find myself wishing for a little more. Treble and mids are excellent.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

The AST would be perfect if we could increase the treble without EQ. A simple mod. Maybe a certain tip that increases treble?


----------



## 4ceratops

ExTubeGamer said:


> The AST would be perfect if we could increase the treble without EQ. A simple mod. Maybe a certain tip that increases treble?


I can only think of one: Other headphones with better tuning ; )


----------



## rayliam80

r31ya said:


> Well, i never bought expensive kz ($50~120+) as to me, there are many better option from "upper budget" brand in that territory. so i can't speak on those things.
> For sub $40? eh, good sound is good sound (they need to fix the QC and misleading design for future products tough)
> 
> QC issues, crap design, and barely functional (or even non functional) driver is crap thing to have.
> ...


The most expensive KZs I have are the ZAX. They’re still very good, especially with the random triple flange tips I’m using with them that don’t slide off of the nozzle. But sometimes I‘m just not in the mood for triple flanges. 

I still think they’ve come a long way from the ZS6, the first IEM I tried from them. I tried a lot of their cheap offerings like ED earbuds for like $3 - $4 from GearBest what seems like years ago now. I just took out my box of unused KZs and just realized how the ZS3 and the DQ6 are similar in their shell design with the notch. 

One positive thing I can say about KZ is that I’ve never had a real fit issue with any of their IEMs. And not one of them has died on me yet. I had bad luck with TRN and moisture issues with my LZ A5. And my Massdrop Noble Universal X is probably damaged after cleaning it too aggressively in which I completely regret doing and take it as a lesson learned. I will say, and I’ve told this story a few times here on this thread and elsewhere, I accidentally dropped a ZS10 shell into a hot cup of coffee. It was completely submerged for a few seconds before I reached in and fished it out. I quickly dried it, stuck it a box of dry rice for a few days, and it still sounded like the dark warm mess that it sounded like prior to being submerged. 

I agree with you to a certain extent. I think KZ should just refine their single dynamic drivers, maybe work on different shell designs/aethetics/colors, maybe play with diaphragm materials even if they won’t be of the highest quality. 

Also, I still want an official KZ t-shirt, just because. I’d wear it with pride especially after all the fiascos this community has had with the company. If I ever buy a Moondrop IEM, I’ll want an official Moondrop t-shirt with a waifu. I can’t just have it on the box packaging, I gotta have it on a t-shirt! KZ, if you’re reading/listening, make a t-shirt and sell it on AliExpress 😂


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 11, 2022)

KZ ex-fan gets mad at KZ in a funny way.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

rayliam80 said:


> Also, I still want an official KZ t-shirt, just because. I’d wear it with pride especially after all the fiascos this community has had with the company. If I ever buy a Moondrop IEM, I’ll want an official Moondrop t-shirt with a waifu. I can’t just have it on the box packaging, I gotta have it on a t-shirt! KZ, if you’re reading/listening, make a t-shirt and sell it on AliExpress 😂


Yeah, KZ is terrible at branding itself. It's so cheap to make stickers or buttons or whatever but they've never done it.

A worldwide company that doesn't know how to look at Apple for inspiration on branding.


----------



## IEMbiker

rayliam80 said:


> The most expensive KZs I have are the ZAX. They’re still very good, especially with the random triple flange tips I’m using with them that don’t slide off of the nozzle. But sometimes I‘m just not in the mood for triple flanges.
> 
> I still think they’ve come a long way from the ZS6, the first IEM I tried from them. I tried a lot of their cheap offerings like ED earbuds for like $3 - $4 from GearBest what seems like years ago now. I just took out my box of unused KZs and just realized how the ZS3 and the DQ6 are similar in their shell design with the notch.
> 
> ...


now we have a coffee coated diaphragm "ZX10C"....warm and dark as it is...😂


----------



## JEHL

InvisibleInk said:


> Sadly, that is soon to be fate of all my pokemons. Except for one. I'll keep the AS10 and use it as if none of this depressing episode had ever happened.


Guess I'm gonna piss off all of Head-fi by saying since my introduction here almost 2 years ago, I still only own a single pair of IEM and a single headphone... The BLON BL-03 and the Koss KSC75 respectively. For outdoor and indoor use respectively.


----------



## nraymond

JEHL said:


> Guess I'm gonna piss off all of Head-fi by saying since my introduction here almost 2 years ago, I still only own a single pair of IEM and a single headphone... The BLON BL-03 and the Koss KSC75 respectively. For outdoor and indoor use respectively.


Piss off? Hardly! Congratulations, you've done what I (and many others) couldn't do! You should be commended (seriously).


----------



## Tzennn

JEHL said:


> Guess I'm gonna piss off all of Head-fi by saying since my introduction here almost 2 years ago, I still only own a single pair of IEM and a single headphone... The BLON BL-03 and the Koss KSC75 respectively. For outdoor and indoor use respectively.


Atleast you have find your happiness. 4 years ago i was so done with buying more stuff after getting sen 560s (headphones), i thought i wouldn't buy anything more because they're good, now i own more than 15 pairs of iem for no reason lol. If i have known what i'm looking for i wouldn't buy this much stuff. To be honest i'm never getting like 100% happy with my gears so... More stuff coming


----------



## Taila

jananan78 said:


> so the weird timbre that i was hearing in the zex pro was not from the est after all ? although my zex pro is the non crinacle original kz zex pro.


ZEX Pro and CRN are exactly the same device, the name was just held back to test how the reviewes will feel about the tuning, or that’s how the story goes.


----------



## Taila

jananan78 said:


> i wonder how would zex pro a.k.a CRN sound with the mest driver or BA driver or both removed as it would create more space in the iem shell.


Probably like CRA, I think it’s the same DD doing the amazing duty on both.


----------



## lushmelody (Mar 11, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> Atleast you have find your happiness. 4 years ago i was so done with buying more stuff after getting sen 560s (headphones), i thought i wouldn't buy anything more because they're good, now i own more than 15 pairs of iem for no reason lol. If i have known what i'm looking for i wouldn't buy this much stuff. To be honest i'm never getting like 100% happy with my gears so... More stuff coming


That was me after AKG 712 Pro, solid 7 years without investing in audio again. Then I decided to buy an IEM for gym and commute... boom got already 5 pairs since 2020

But I'm doing okay recently. My last purchase was an Aliex's 11.11 deal. PEQ and eartips rolling are my main reason to stop buying more and fix some weaknesses on current gear. Then I stopped looking for a perfect sound and more for a good hardware, even if somewhat flawed, but with reasonable price to do a custom preset. And that crave for new gear is kinda gone as nothing seems to be a real good deal right now...


----------



## r31ya

JEHL said:


> Guess I'm gonna piss off all of Head-fi by saying since my introduction here almost 2 years ago, I still only own a single pair of IEM and a single headphone... The BLON BL-03 and the Koss KSC75 respectively. For outdoor and indoor use respectively.


For over two year, my pair is ATH-M40x and ATH-e40 with Dragonfly Black.
I don't know what "good sound" is when i looking for a headphone and earphone back then, most people points out to those two.
The two kinda shaped what i like now.

Tough now, i use HE-400i (2020) and Moondrop aria with BTR5
I still have ATH-M40x in my shelf ready to use and i stop using ATH-e40 after it ate the third or fourth cable.


----------



## baskingshark

Tzennn said:


> Atleast you have find your happiness. 4 years ago i was so done with buying more stuff after getting sen 560s (headphones), i thought i wouldn't buy anything more because they're good, now i own more than 15 pairs of iem for no reason lol. If i have known what i'm looking for i wouldn't buy this much stuff. To be honest i'm never getting like 100% happy with my gears so... More stuff coming





lushmelody said:


> That was me after AKG 712 Pro, solid 7 years without investing in audio again. Then I decided to buy an IEM for gym and commute... boom got already 5 pairs since 2020
> 
> But I'm doing okay recently. My last purchase was an Aliex's 11.11 deal. PEQ and eartips rolling are my main reason to stop buying more and fix some weaknesses on current gear. Then I stopped looking for a perfect sound and more for a good hardware, even if somewhat flawed, but with reasonable price to do a custom preset. And that crave for new gear is kinda gone as nothing seems to be a real good deal right now...



Budget gear is very useful to explore what sound signatures you like (or dislike). 

But I would advise, rather than buying more and more sidegrades, once you know what sound signature you like, it would be wiser to go up the ladder, get something midFI around $100 - 300 USD and call it a day and stop sidegrading. The costs add up soon enough, and you will look back and realize that the 10 pokemon sidegrade IEMs in your drawer actually could have gotten you a TOTL or midfi IEM. A new hypetrain comes out almost every week and what you bought today may be obsolete in a matter of weeks!

In my country, it is super tough to sell away budget KZ pokemons, so even getting some funds back from selling unused budget stuff is hard. I have like 10 - 15 KZs/CCAs somewhere in a dark corner in my room LOL.

Oh ya, I would say the $100 - 300 market is the best bang for buck. You might get improvements in the TOTL segment, but generally speaking, one is gonna pay around 10X more for 10 - 20% sonic improvement only, so midFI is still the sweetspot IMHO. 

I know this is the KZ thread, but some hardtruths: best to avoid $100 region TRN/KZ multi driver stuff, those generally have poor price to performance ratio compared to similarly priced competitors that are more established. And also the driver doubt too. KZ was my first entry to the CHIFI world and I thank them for that, but I do feel they do their best work at sub $50. Whenever they tried to muscle in near the $100 bracket, errr the results were a bit meh.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 12, 2022)

JEHL said:


> Guess I'm gonna piss off all of Head-fi by saying since my introduction here almost 2 years ago, I still only own a single pair of IEM and a single headphone... The BLON BL-03 and the Koss KSC75 respectively. For outdoor and indoor use respectively.


All you did was buy the most hyped over the longest period headphone and earphone. That was a smart choice.

What's your next hyped long term history buy?


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 12, 2022)

I'm glad to see so much love for KZ in here. I haven't seen that kind emotion ever since Sony took over North America.

Please don't turn your love into a religion, there are many great audio brands out there.

Make it a religion if you want, but you're the one ultimately missing out on audio companies from around the world.


----------



## JEHL (Mar 12, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> All you did was buy the most hyped over the longest period headphone and earphone. That was a smart choice.
> 
> What's your next hyped long term history buy?


https://www.amazon.com/ELAC-4-Passive-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B08W9B2DBL

More interested in trying to set up a home theater on a budget than more headgear currently since for watching videos together as a family... All we literally have is the stock TV audio. So we bought these for $68 somehow

Eventually I wanna get my hands on https://stereointegrity.com/product/ht-18-v3/ once I save up enough for it.

Edit: Then I wanna buy a pair of https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-woofers/scanspeak-22w/4534g-discovery-8-woofer-4-ohm/ carve a floorstanding cabinet and load https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...tbfc/g-h1212-aluminum/magnesium-dome-tweeter/ in a horn as soon as I figure out how horns work.

Probably a minidsp 2x4 since I can't be bothered to time align drivers passively.


----------



## Nimweth

Colin5619 said:


> I love the sound of my AST.  I started out years ago trying the ATE and loved it for its price. Upgraded to the Zs6 which I felt sounded even better.  Though I did find it a little hot sounding.  My next upgrade was the ZS10 Pro which I loved and they served me well for several years. handed the ZS6 to my son who preferred them over the Zs10 Pros.  Late last year thought I would try the ZEX Pro, and was disappointed that it didn’t sound to my ears as good as the Zs10 pros I had now given to one of my sons. It sounded too harsh and dry to me, I like a warm  sound.
> 
> So I bought the Zs10 Pro again, which I loved.  However I had my 66th birthday coming and treated myself to the ASTs.
> 
> ...


I agree, I am enjoying classical music more now with the AST than with many other IEMs. My favourite before was the Starsea but I really like the way the AST reproduces strings, piano and woodwind. The timbre is very good.


----------



## saldsald

Nimweth said:


> I agree, I am enjoying classical music more now with the AST than with many other IEMs. My favourite before was the Starsea but I really like the way the AST reproduces strings, piano and woodwind. The timbre is very good.


Try listen to some bass guitar tracks. The reproduction of the bass guitar amp speaker hard hitting the amp enclosure and the floor is super realistic.


----------



## Zerstorer_GOhren

Checkout my review on KZ ZES:





*https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-zes.25710/reviews*


----------



## JazzVinyl

JEHL said:


> Guess I'm gonna piss off all of Head-fi by saying since my introduction here almost 2 years ago, I still only own a single pair of IEM and a single headphone... The BLON BL-03 and the Koss KSC75 respectively. For outdoor and indoor use respectively.


I ordered a BLON-03 but it somehow they never got mailed, and they promptly refunded me (so no problem).

For years and years I have had several pair of KSC75 that I have put in various DIY over the head bands.  And I must say, they are extremely good.  If you refuse to be manipulated by hype, the KSC75 might be the absolute best there ever was, and still is, for value vs performance.

I have had people who tried them, make excuses as to why they sound so good.  "Must be your DAP" or "Must be your Amp" they refuse to believe their ears (because they do not cost nearly as much as they spent for much crummier sound).

.


----------



## lushmelody

saldsald said:


> Try listen to some bass guitar tracks. The reproduction of the bass guitar amp speaker hard hitting the amp enclosure and the floor is super realistic.





Nimweth said:


> I agree, I am enjoying classical music more now with the AST than with many other IEMs. My favourite before was the Starsea but I really like the way the AST reproduces strings, piano and woodwind. The timbre is very good.


Midcentric genres shine through AST. I remember @PhonoPhi like them a lot too


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

JazzVinyl said:


> For years and years I have had several pair of KSC75 that I have put in various DIY over the head bands.  And I must say, they are extremely good.  If you refuse to be manipulated by hype, the KSC75 might be the absolute best there ever was, and still is, for value vs performance.


I paid $10USD for my KSC75 when my local shop was clearing out the Koss brand. 

Damn, I wish I bought 10 pairs instead of 3.


----------



## phower

LaughMoreDaily said:


> I paid $10USD for my KSC75 when my local shop was clearing out the Koss brand.
> 
> Damn, I wish I bought 10 pairs instead of 3.


KSC75 are very bright. I bought it based on the hype. 

KSC75 FR The +6dB rise from 1.2kHz to 3kHz above target is very harsh to me and I fix it with a PEQ whenever I use it though I end up using my Philips SHP9500 most of the time.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Mar 12, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> Midcentric genres shine through AST. I remember @PhonoPhi like them a lot too


I do very much like AST, just wish for a bit more treble.
AST totally replaced TRI I3 for me for smooth and resolving.
AST, ASX (wide nozzles) and AS16 are my absolute complementary favourites, and I have few other IEMs that I thought to test other than KZ and I liked KZ much more.

I understand that "unbiased" reviewers should push new IEMs with perenial praises like "the best I"ve heard so far" (note how universally applicable this phrasing is ).
I just stick with KZ not believing for a second that DQ6 is a "single driver", if it were the case, it is a really amazing DD (and I am by no means a DD lover).


----------



## voicemaster

JazzVinyl said:


> I ordered a BLON-03 but it somehow they never got mailed, and they promptly refunded me (so no problem).
> 
> For years and years I have had several pair of KSC75 that I have put in various DIY over the head bands.  And I must say, they are extremely good.  If you refuse to be manipulated by hype, the KSC75 might be the absolute best there ever was, and still is, for value vs performance.
> 
> ...


Love KSC75, but the damn earhooks hurt my ears after awhile.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 12, 2022)

phower said:


> KSC75 are very bright. I bought it based on the hype.
> 
> KSC75 FR The +6dB rise from 1.2kHz to 3kHz above target is very harsh to me and I fix it with a PEQ whenever I use it though I end up using my Philips SHP9500 most of the time.


How do you go about researching which parts of an audio spectrum are negative (to you) like that? That's pretty hardcore.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily (Mar 12, 2022)

voicemaster said:


> Love KSC75, but the damn earhooks hurt my ears after awhile.


That's why we are lucky to have many options. KSC35 earhooks, Sportapro/Portapro headband, Parts Express headband, Chinese Healthcare headband, AIAIAI Tracks headband...

I hope you didn't think you only had one choice.


----------



## voicemaster

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That's why we are lucky to have many options. KSC35 earhooks, Sportapro/Portapro headband, Parts Express headband, Chinese Healthcare headband, AIAIAI Tracks headband...
> 
> I hope you didn't think you only had one choice.


Well, I have move on to solely using IEM.


----------



## phower

LaughMoreDaily said:


> How do you go about researching which parts of an audio spectrum are negative (to you) like that? That's pretty hardcore.


Well, I found it honky at first listen which was confirmed by the FR.  
I can easily spot too much energy around 200 Hz, 1-3kHz and 6kHz. Most people can be trained to spot these things easily. Spotting higher frequencies or  peaks in narrow ranges requires a lot of training & golden ears.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Mar 12, 2022)

I'm thinking about ordering a couple of pairs more of the ZAX. IMO this was more interesting as a multi-BA IEM since it used several different model drivers in the configuration compared to ZAS or the AST/ASX series. On a balanced cable and amp the ZAX is the closest I have to something that sounds "holographic".

I checked AliExpress earlier this morning with the AST in mind, but saw that it's selling for about $160 in USD (147 euro)  to get it shipped to me here in France. I've got to draw a line somewhere, and this is it:  that's just more than I'm willing to pay for a pair of KZ phones. A big part of me wants to experience these for myself but I don't have a headphone problem that these really solve for. I can get a backup pair of SRH840s as they're on sale now for 99 euro, and none of the IEM I've had sound as good as those do under decades long experience with configuring PEQ to my own ears. Most of these don't sound as good as my 32 euro AKG k52.  A big problem for IEM for me is that taking them in and out is a real PITA since I work from home and also spend a considerable amount of time on zoom calls. Between biobreaks, coffee runs, meals, and the honey-do list it's just tiring.  I can slap my Shure's on my noggin' in a flash and they're comfortable to wear all day, every day. The IEM form factor is a lot more convenient for being on the go but the reality is that I'm stuck mostly behind my desk, which really diminishes my desire for investing too much into them.



LaughMoreDaily said:


> Please don't turn your love into a religion, there are many great audio brands out there.



Hear, hear.  the Heart Mirror on the E1DA's "vinyl" preset is also a near perfect IEM when run direct on a balanced cable. I have to admit that I grab for the GK10s at least once on a daily basis. The piezo treble doesn't hurt my tinnitus, the mids are very detailed and the bass is _thicc_ for the discerning listener who knows what they want and isn't afraid to adjust 2 or 3 sliders on the EQ. They're also easy to fall asleep with since the shells are pretty small.

Final Audio A4000, Tanchjim Oxygen, BQEYZ Spring 2, Moondrop's KATO, and KBEAR Aurora have all been on my watch list but I haven't pulled the trigger on any of them. I reviewed a pair of TRI Meteors and thought they were great, but somewhat forgettable given how many other IEM have effectively the same sound quality at around the same price. They're _very good, at a good price._ ChiFi is so competitive that people are looking for perfect for peanuts, so they get looked over which is kind of a shame. The BA definitely works in those and the beryllium thing does put out some nice bass. They're also cheaper than most of the rest of their catalog, and knowing my own ears, I think I'd find the premium single DDs a bit boring.  The Heart Mirror is enough.

To repeat what @baskingshark has already said, mid-fi is the HiFi summit. That magical line around 300 is about as good as it gets, with prices going exponentially higher for fractionally better sound quality. This is true for most things in life. A 10 million dollar house sitting empty doesn't look nor feel any more impressive than an $800,000   house with nice furnishings and nicely executed landscaping. Focus on the appliances and the furniture:  by that I mean cables, amps, tips, and options.



voicemaster said:


> Love KSC75, but the damn earhooks hurt my ears after awhile.



There was a time period where I was psyched about wearing these while cycling to work since there wasn't a headband to interfere with my helmet. Unfortunately the ear hooks just never stayed put while being active and I ended up reverting back to the old skool cheapo Senny or Sony buds depending on how long they the wires lasted before getting chewed up with daily use. That was a long time ago, though. I'm way too fat for cycling, now.  LOL


----------



## PhonoPhi (Mar 12, 2022)

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'm thinking about ordering a couple of pairs more of the ZAX. IMO this was more interesting as a multi-BA IEM since it used several different model drivers in the configuration compared to ZAS or the AST/ASX series. On a balanced cable and amp the ZAX is the closest I have to something that sounds "holographic".
> 
> I checked AliExpress earlier this morning with the AST in mind, but saw that it's selling for about $160 in USD (147 euro)  to get it shipped to me here in France. I've got to draw a line somewhere, and this is it:  that's just more than I'm willing to pay for a pair of KZ phones. A big part of me wants to experience these for myself but I don't have a headphone problem that these really solve for. I can get a backup pair of SRH840s as they're on sale now for 99 euro, and none of the IEM I've had sound as good as those do under decades long experience with configuring PEQ to my own ears. Most of these don't sound as good as my 32 euro AKG k52.  A big problem for IEM for me is that taking them in and out is a real PITA since I work from home and also spend a considerable amount of time on zoom calls. Between biobreaks, coffee runs, meals, and the honey-do list it's just tiring.  I can slap my Shure's on my noggin' in a flash and they're comfortable to wear all day, every day. The IEM form factor is a lot more convenient for being on the go but the reality is that I'm stuck mostly behind my desk, which really diminishes my desire for investing too much into them.
> 
> ...


ZAX with the bass BAs from ASX or AST would be a dream, but then as a "conspiracy theory" goes KZ can't murder all ChiFi, hence only "almost perfect" IEMs.


----------



## kalo86

For me the ZAX is one of the best iem for the quality/price ratio.
I ordered the ZES because I'm very curious about the 12mm DD. 
Let's see how it performs compared to the ZAX. 
In my opinion the DQS6 HBB are not better than the ZAX.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

PhonoPhi said:


> ZAX with the bass BAs from ASX or AST would be a dream, but then as a "conspiracy theory" goes KZ can't murder all ChiFi, hence only "almost perfect" IEMs.



Didn't you 'n me invent that theory? .... 😂 haha


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

kalo86 said:


> For me the ZAX is one of the best iem for the quality/price ratio.
> I ordered the ZES because I'm very curious about the 12mm DD.
> Let's see how it performs compared to the ZAX.
> In my opinion the DQS6 HBB are not better than the ZAX.



Yeh no way that dq6 or any variant is as good as the ZAX. It's big drawback is a rather abrupt pinna gain and bottom end that seems a bit loose relative to updated 10mm units from KZ.  If they put the NRA unit into the zax it would be amazing. A XUN unit would also be an impressive upgrade I think for the ZAX and super easy to release as a v2.0


----------



## lushmelody (Mar 12, 2022)

ExTubeGamer said:


> The AST would be perfect if we could increase the treble without EQ. A simple mod. Maybe a certain tip that increases treble?


Moondrop's marketing says their spring tips are a treble adapting* design. I have not tried them though. They are expensive tips that can wait for a sale.

Then, besides EQ, the easier way to boost treble is through source. BAs are very sensitive, so a bright source should benefit AST.

By the way, I think source and EQ combined are the ultimate sound sweet spot. Poweramp and Peace both offer friendly and intuitive UI that is easy to change between saved presets.


----------



## saldsald

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'm thinking about ordering a couple of pairs more of the ZAX. IMO this was more interesting as a multi-BA IEM since it used several different model drivers in the configuration compared to ZAS or the AST/ASX series. On a balanced cable and amp the ZAX is the closest I have to something that sounds "holographic".
> 
> I checked AliExpress earlier this morning with the AST in mind, but saw that it's selling for about $160 in USD (147 euro)  to get it shipped to me here in France. I've got to draw a line somewhere, and this is it:  that's just more than I'm willing to pay for a pair of KZ phones. A big part of me wants to experience these for myself but I don't have a headphone problem that these really solve for. I can get a backup pair of SRH840s as they're on sale now for 99 euro, and none of the IEM I've had sound as good as those do under decades long experience with configuring PEQ to my own ears. Most of these don't sound as good as my 32 euro AKG k52.  A big problem for IEM for me is that taking them in and out is a real PITA since I work from home and also spend a considerable amount of time on zoom calls. Between biobreaks, coffee runs, meals, and the honey-do list it's just tiring.  I can slap my Shure's on my noggin' in a flash and they're comfortable to wear all day, every day. The IEM form factor is a lot more convenient for being on the go but the reality is that I'm stuck mostly behind my desk, which really diminishes my desire for investing too much into them.
> 
> ...


You can get the CCA CKX instead of the ZAX which is more refined and removed the Spring 2 from your watchlist and replace it with the Autumn.


----------



## saldsald

lushmelody said:


> Moondrop's marketing says their spring tips are a treble boosting design. I have not tried them though. They are expensive tips that can wait for a sale.
> 
> Then, besides EQ, the easier way to boost treble is through source. BAs are very sensitive, so a bright source should benefit AST.
> 
> By the way, I think source and EQ combined are the ultimate sound sweet spot. Poweramp and Peace both offer friendly and intuitive UI that is easy to change between saved presets.


Really? I thought the Springtips are for removing unwanted treble and they sre quite cheap here. I am using CP100+ to boost the trebel a bit. Also I am using it with Shanling M8 which is rather warm and I believe the AST meeds a more resolving source since it sounds terrible with the M11 Pro which is a bright source.


----------



## lushmelody (Mar 12, 2022)

saldsald said:


> Really? I thought the Springtips are for removing unwanted treble and they sre quite cheap here. I am using CP100+ to boost the trebel a bit. Also I am using it with Shanling M8 which is rather warm and I believe the AST meeds a more resolving source since it sounds terrible with the M11 Pro which is a bright source.


My mistake indeed, sorry for misinformation about the tips. Any tips costing more than $5 is expensive, IMO (for stuff that are cents to manufacture).

And I agree, source matching can be difficult (and expensive). EQ is way more rational for controlling the result with basically no or very low cost to acquire the software.


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> You can get the CCA CKX instead of the ZAX which is more refined and removed the Spring 2 from your watchlist and replace it with the Autumn.


I have the CKX too, which sounds sonically good! So, since you have the ZAX how is the overall signature and is it still worth getting? Or are they just a side-grade to the CKX?

-Clear


----------



## saldsald

1clearhead said:


> I have the CKX too, which sounds sonically good! So, since you have the ZAX how is the overall signature and is it still worth getting? Or are they just a side-grade to the CKX?
> 
> -Clear


They are pretty much the same just the CKX is more refined without the treble spikes so it is not worth getting the ZAX if you already have the CKX.


----------



## seanwee

lushmelody said:


> Moondrop's marketing says their spring tips are a treble adapting* design. I have not tried them though. They are expensive tips that can wait for a sale.
> 
> Then, besides EQ, the easier way to boost treble is through source. BAs are very sensitive, so a bright source should benefit AST.
> 
> By the way, I think source and EQ combined are the ultimate sound sweet spot. Poweramp and Peace both offer friendly and intuitive UI that is easy to change between saved presets.





saldsald said:


> Really? I thought the Springtips are for removing unwanted treble and they sre quite cheap here. I am using CP100+ to boost the trebel a bit. Also I am using it with Shanling M8 which is rather warm and I believe the AST meeds a more resolving source since it sounds terrible with the M11 Pro which is a bright source.


I just got the spring tips and imo they tighten the midbass ever so slightly and they refine the treble. I read that they roll of the upper treble but on my iems they clean the upper treble while not affecting the extension, if anything it makes it sound airier due the improved refinement.


----------



## Nimweth

saldsald said:


> Really? I thought the Springtips are for removing unwanted treble and they sre quite cheap here. I am using CP100+ to boost the trebel a bit. Also I am using it with Shanling M8 which is rather warm and I believe the AST meeds a more resolving source since it sounds terrible with the M11 Pro which is a bright source.


I found the Xduoo X20 perfect with the AST, along with a Faaeal Hibiscus copper cable and KBEAR wide bore tips.


----------



## 1clearhead

saldsald said:


> They are pretty much the same just the CKX is more refined without the treble spikes so it is not worth getting the ZAX if you already have the CKX.


Good to know, thanks!

-Clear


----------



## Nimweth

saldsald said:


> They are pretty much the same just the CKX is more refined without the treble spikes so it is not worth getting the ZAX if you already have the CKX.


I agree, the CKX is more balanced with cleaner treble and also has better bass. The best CCA I have heard so far.


----------



## Nimweth

AS12 coming soon,  $29 from Luck LZ store at Ali Express!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Heart Mirror on the E1DA's "vinyl" preset is also a near perfect IEM when run direct on a balanced cable.


The E1DA has a vinyl EQ preset? I've never heard about this in reviews. Does it sound like actual vinyl?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Mar 13, 2022)

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The E1DA has a vinyl EQ preset? I've never heard about this in reviews. Does it sound like actual vinyl?



PowerDAC version, not the ESS variant. It warms up the mids, rolls the treble extension a bit, and adds a few dB of gain across the range. Works well for the Mirrors. 

I EQ everything so I bought the PowerDAC specifically to have access to the HPToy mobile app that provides all this tweaky goodness. The PEQ in there is legit and the PWM design lays down solid power (580mW at 16ohms). Its clean, super detailed, and I like it a lot. My only nitpick would be that the noise floor is a bit high and that it only has one 2.5mm port out, which is balanced. E1DA provide an adapter for single ended 3.5mm output, which requires a setting change in the app. For the price to sound quality ratio it gives I don't mind in the least. Works fine off mobile or my laptop, if not a bit clumsy for mobile. For $100 tho it's a screaming deal. 

Fwiw


----------



## saldsald

lushmelody said:


> My mistake indeed, sorry for misinformation about the tips. Any tips costing more than $5 is expensive, IMO (for stuff that are cents to manufacture).
> 
> And I agree, source matching can be difficult (and expensive). EQ is way more rational for controlling the result with basically no or very low cost to acquire the software.


I actually have the tips and they are about $8 for 3 pairs here which are consideribly cheaper than any Spinfit tips. I am using M size and find them to have slight bass boost.


----------



## baskingshark

LaughMoreDaily said:


> The E1DA has a vinyl EQ preset? I've never heard about this in reviews. Does it sound like actual vinyl?



Yeah there is a tube mode for the E1DA 9038D, obtain the firmware from here: https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index/9038d

The tube mode apparently increases 2nd order harmonics and indeed on doing A/B testing of the tube mode versus the stock mode, the tube mode is subtly a bit more euphonic and musical (though maybe there is a loss of clarity/edge definition). Worth a try for 9038D owners, but don't touch the device when flashing, else there's a chance of bricking it!!!


----------



## baskingshark

*PSA:*

KZ Official Store is offering refunds for the KZ DQ6S: 
https://www.facebook.com/KZEarphones/posts/1388795091551593







No mention about the CRN though. And for those that bought KZ pokemons from third party sellers, I think you guys are out of luck.


----------



## Podster

baskingshark said:


> *PSA:*
> 
> KZ Official Store is offering refunds for the KZ DQ6S:
> https://www.facebook.com/KZEarphones/posts/1388795091551593
> ...


Damage Control, but at least they are communicating!


----------



## nicksson (Mar 14, 2022)

Despite the recent scandal with ZEX Pro and DQ6S, my favorite KZ IEM is still ZEX Pro. I dusted off all my old KZ items (ZST 1 & 2, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZSN Pro X, ED16/ZS7, ES4, ZSR, ZS10, ZS10 Pro, AS10, ZSX Terminator, ZAX), and after all, the ZEX Pro remains the most enjoyable for me. It is hard to believe that the magnetodriver and the BA aren't functional, but if that's true for my item as well, then the dynamic driver in the ZEX Pro is damn good! KZ became tricky befooling the buyers, so I'll buy a KZ item again only after 6-8 months from the launching and *IF* the reviews will strengthen that the drivers are not from paper or simply drawn...


----------



## courierdriver

Podster said:


> Damage Control, but at least they are communicating!


The big question is: will this be enough to save their butt? I'm surprised that there aren't more posts about how KZ flat out LIED about the fact that their recent multiple driver earphones were either covered in glue or non functional. I feel extremely bad for the guys who went out on a limb to help the company ( ie. Crinacle and HBB/BGGAR), by giving them advice and graghs to help them tune their iems...only to produce gear that is flawed. In other words, what was promised and presented/advertised; was NOT what was delivered. NOT the tuners fault...KZ’S fault for not properly manufacturing the products with FULLY FUNCTIONAL drivers.


----------



## Steve1976

I just got my KZ CRN.

Well, they are pretty damn good. If the sound comes from a "high-end" branded IEM I might be willing to pay at least $200 for it. This is such an unfortunate event for such a well-performing product. 

Another thing I don't get is why KZ is obsessed with this "electrostatic driver" marketing. It's clearly marked on every showcase ad, and even on the IEM packaging. Yeah it is technically correct to some degree but surely this isn't the STAX or KSE1500 technology.


----------



## Steve1976

courierdriver said:


> The big question is: will this be enough to save their butt? I'm surprised that there aren't more posts about how KZ flat out LIED about the fact that their recent multiple driver earphones were either covered in glue or non functional. I feel extremely bad for the guys who went out on a limb to help the company ( ie. Crinacle and HBB/BGGAR), by giving them advice and graghs to help them tune their iems...only to produce gear that is flawed. In other words, what was promised and presented/advertised; was NOT what was delivered. NOT the tuners fault...KZ’S fault for not properly manufacturing the products with FULLY FUNCTIONAL drivers.


Yeah I can't imagine how Crinacle and HBB kept promoting scientific, value based reviews for years and then ended up collaborating with such scandal.


----------



## G777 (Mar 15, 2022)

I just got my AS12. After messing around with dampening its three bores and a bit a EQ, these are the results I got:



It graphs similar to the AS16 that I've seen online, and quite a bit different from the AS12 graphs that I've seen. Perhaps KZ made a stealth revision with these. IIRC the AS12 uses the same crossover board as the AS16

My initial impressions are that they sound quite good, although a bit harsh in their stock form. The mods I made tames the treble and makes it a more comfortable listen. EQ makes it even less fatiguing. 

I'll have to spend some more time with them to evaluate their technical performance.


----------



## G777

Also, I dampened the individual bores with foam in the nozzle and confirmed that all the drivers are functional and have significant contributions to the sound:


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

nicksson said:


> Despite the recent scandal with ZEX Pro and DQ6S, my favorite KZ IEM is still ZEX Pro. I dusted off all my old KZ items (ZST 1 & 2, ZSN, ZSN Pro, ZSN Pro X, ED16/ZS7, ES4, ZSR, ZS10, ZS10 Pro, AS10, ZSX Terminator, ZAX), and after all, the ZEX Pro remains the most enjoyable for me. It is hard to believe that the magnetodriver and the BA aren't functional, but if that's true for my item as well, then the dynamic driver in the ZEX Pro is damn good! KZ became tricky befooling the buyers, so I'll buy a KZ item again only after 6-8 months from the launching and *IF* the reviews will strengthen that the drivers are not from paper or simply drawn...


I'm not sure why you care about the scandal since you say the Zex Pro is your favourite out of all your KZ earphones.

You should be mad about buying too many.


----------



## saldsald

Steve1976 said:


> Yeah I can't imagine how Crinacle and HBB kept promoting scientific, value based reviews for years and then ended up collaborating with such scandal.


What kind of scientific reviews have they been promoting?


----------



## lushmelody

saldsald said:


> What kind of scientific reviews have they been promoting?


my harmanish preference = good; not harmanish = bad


----------



## phower

lushmelody said:


> my harmanish preference = good; not harmanish = bad


Harman target curve was derived from a pair of speakers in an acoustically treated room and then figuring out the average preference of few hundred people from around the world.
It is pretty much the average preference except for sub-bass where individual preference varied.

So anyone touting their own Harman 🎯 curve is 🐂💩 ing.


----------



## lushmelody (Mar 15, 2022)

phower said:


> Harman target curve was derived from a pair of speakers in an acoustically treated room and then figuring out the average preference of few hundred people from around the world.
> It is pretty much the average preference except for sub-bass where individual preference varied.
> 
> So anyone touting their own Harman 🎯 curve is 🐂💩 ing.


Indeed. Its an attempt to define an average preference. But it does stall creativity and it should never be considered a "scientific law" or something that eliminates subjectivity or impedes changes/advancements.

Its just funny see the $50-$100 bracket accumulating dozens of single-DD sidegrades.

How intolerable is any deviation from desired curve is hilarious too. Dont also forget that harman bias was giving KZ lot of appraise and respect before the driver scandal...


----------



## Aevum

i would be upset that i paid 40 bucks for a iem that should be 15...


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

Aevum said:


> i would be upset that i paid 40 bucks for a iem that should be 15...



you should be more upset for paying $400 for what should've been $40.


----------



## Taila

KZ has escalated the lies in marketing:






The refreshed ZS10 Pro now has 10 mm diaphragm on the printed circuit board too. This must make a world of difference 🤥🤣😂


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

phower said:


> So anyone touting their own Harman 🎯 curve is 🐂💩 ing.


My farts are on the Harman curve.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

LaughMoreDaily said:


> My farts are on the Harman curve.



Bloated midbass, surely ...


----------



## atlatl

LaughMoreDaily said:


> My farts are on the Harman curve.


taco bell treble


----------



## jananan78

Taila said:


> KZ has escalated the lies in marketing:
> 
> 
> 
> The refreshed ZS10 Pro now has 10 mm diaphragm on the printed circuit board too. This must make a world of difference 🤥🤣😂


but there are two 30095 in different positions? i wonder if they will sound coherent or add holographic or 3D space to the treble. interesting design nevertheless but what frequencies is the printed circuit board adding?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

jananan78 said:


> but there are two 30095 in different positions? i wonder if they will sound coherent or add holographic or 3D space to the treble. interesting design nevertheless but what frequencies is the printed circuit board adding?



there are a couple other kz's with a BA tweeter in the nozzle and a same model inside the main body of the shell.  i forget which ones.  pretty much all the variations that can be tried have be... errmm, no that was those other dudes at GS Audio that launched like 50 iem at the same time and only had 1 good one.


----------



## Elvis Costello

What's the name of this ZS10 Pro refresh?


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

atlatl said:


> taco bell treble



true but if it's warm and velvety mids that you're after, you gotta upgrade to chipotle tier. 

* my inner 10 year old is having a great time, here *


----------



## Taila

Elvis Costello said:


> What's the name of this ZS10 Pro refresh?


It’s still going by the same name, but it comes in newer colors on the casing, and the back plates now have color accents whereas before they were just silver.


----------



## scratchmassive

Has anyone else's KZ IEMs developed imbalance issues?

My CRA left side are now at about 25% volume compared to the right. I'm super pissed as I had this recently with my ZAX. I know the CRA is a fraction the cost of the ZAX but they only lasted a couple months!

I've got a bunch of KZs and I love them, especially for their price/performance, but these quality issues along with the whole driver fiasco... I'm losing faith ya know? What's a chi-fi brand that is actually delivering honest quality? Moondrop?


----------



## Aevum

im still annoyed that the AZ09 pro only comes in C Pin, they are the best TWS conversion under 100.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Mar 17, 2022)

scratchmassive said:


> Has anyone else's KZ IEMs developed imbalance issues?
> 
> My CRA left side are now at about 25% volume compared to the right. I'm super pissed as I had this recently with my ZAX. I know the CRA is a fraction the cost of the ZAX but they only lasted a couple months!
> 
> I've got a bunch of KZs and I love them, especially for their price/performance, but these quality issues along with the whole driver fiasco... I'm losing faith ya know? What's a chi-fi brand that is actually delivering honest quality? Moondrop?



Among KZ/CCA I still have listen to regularly:  CRA, NRA, ZEX Pro, BA10, C12, and the ZAX, which my wife uses mostly.  I have zero balance issues with any of them despite regular use. Is there a chance that your source might have an issue? the 2 minor issues I've had are: 

ZEX Pro:  the metal shell cover did pop off of the ZEX Pro on one side and I lightly glued it back into place.
NRA:  has a loose connector on the left channel. I keep meaning to put a drop of super glue in there to lock it down but it hasn't been a problem.

I've been listening to my NRA all day today off the PowerDAC, actually - and using the stock cable at that. I still love these things and they keep up with some of the most challenging metal albums I own.

 

This album has some of the densest mids I've ever heard but the NRA keeps enough detail and separation in there to pick rhythm guitar parts from the drums, vocals, and bass and provides some space for the lead guitar bits to float thru as they come. There is still an amazing amount of clarity in these IEM to my ears.

This track rocked so hard that drummer Brann Dailor has his own signature "ghost" cymbal made for him from MEINL. Check it out here:



edit:  man those fills are still SICK


----------



## yaps66

scratchmassive said:


> Has anyone else's KZ IEMs developed imbalance issues?
> 
> My CRA left side are now at about 25% volume compared to the right. I'm super pissed as I had this recently with my ZAX. I know the CRA is a fraction the cost of the ZAX but they only lasted a couple months!
> 
> I've got a bunch of KZs and I love them, especially for their price/performance, but these quality issues along with the whole driver fiasco... I'm losing faith ya know? What's a chi-fi brand that is actually delivering honest quality? Moondrop?


Actually most of them do.  I have KBEar, Tri Audio, Fiio, ThieAudio, See Audio, Yincrow and Tin Hifi and all have no problems so far.  I hear good things about Moondrop also.  I don't have any Dunu iems but have a bunch of their cables and quality wise, they are great!


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Among KZ/CCA I still have listen to regularly:  CRA, NRA, ZEX Pro, BA10, C12, and the ZAX, which my wife uses mostly.  I have zero balance issues with any of them despite regular use. Is there a chance that your source might have an issue? the 2 minor issues I've had are:
> 
> ZEX Pro:  the metal shell cover did pop off of the ZEX Pro on one side and I lightly glued it back into place.
> NRA:  has a loose connector on the left channel. I keep meaning to put a drop of super glue in there to lock it down but it hasn't been a problem.
> ...



Yes, +1 for the NRA.


----------



## Nimweth

You may find my review of the AST here:
https://audiosolace.com/kz-ast-review/


----------



## Taila

scratchmassive said:


> Has anyone else's KZ IEMs developed imbalance issues?
> 
> My CRA left side are now at about 25% volume compared to the right. I'm super pissed as I had this recently with my ZAX. I know the CRA is a fraction the cost of the ZAX but they only lasted a couple months!
> 
> I've got a bunch of KZs and I love them, especially for their price/performance, but these quality issues along with the whole driver fiasco... I'm losing faith ya know? What's a chi-fi brand that is actually delivering honest quality? Moondrop?


I’ve been lucky enough that nothing has ever happened with mine. I listen to the DEX Pro, CRA, CRN, ZS10 Pro, ZSN Pro (heavily used by my son), C12, currently also driving the NRA from a friend. Also has has stuff from QKZ, TRN and KBear. No problems on all of them.


----------



## StacoHRP

scratchmassive said:


> Has anyone else's KZ IEMs developed imbalance issues?
> 
> My CRA left side are now at about 25% volume compared to the right. I'm super pissed as I had this recently with my ZAX. I know the CRA is a fraction the cost of the ZAX but they only lasted a couple months!
> 
> I've got a bunch of KZs and I love them, especially for their price/performance, but these quality issues along with the whole driver fiasco... I'm losing faith ya know? What's a chi-fi brand that is actually delivering honest quality? Moondrop?


My CRA also have this issue. In my set, I've done removing the filter on the nozzles and replace with spare filter. I don't know why, my other IEM also have this kind of problem. Condensation thing i guess.


----------



## Colin5619

Nimweth said:


> You may find my review of the AST here:
> https://audiosolace.com/kz-ast-review/



Nice review, you basically describe how I find them to sound to my ears.  Every time I listen I am surprised by the width of the sound field. Great review.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

I am facing this weird issue with my AZ09 Pro where they automatically get shutdown and disconnected after 1.5-2 hrs. They restart again but somehow don't get connected automatically. Is anyone else facing this issue? I feel it's due to poor battery and maybe poor connectivity as well. Appreciate it if anyone can help here. Thanks.


----------



## MacAttack7

Nimweth said:


> You may find my review of the AST here:
> https://audiosolace.com/kz-ast-review/


I'm not so sure about this statement anymore, " _To get twelve BA drivers to work in harmony successfully is quite an achievement..._.", but I really like the AST's. 
With all of the KZ contoversy lately I put my KZ earphones in expecting to find fault with them, but they still sound good to me. I'm not sure if the AST or ASX is my favorite....could happily use either one every day and be just fine.


----------



## independent

Oh, this is quite a classic media disaster for KZ. Been following this elsewhere and here. I wonder if KZ realise how much of a problem this is? 

I complained about the terrible QC on my ASX's. Got no love from the Xpress store owner or the dispute even tho the connector was so wobbly. Went in and found they overtightened and stripped the little torx screws. Its about my 5th 7th pair of KZ and I do appreciate the detailed bass of the ASX, I cannot lie. The detail overall is incredible. Regardless, since my second pair of ZS7s died and I read about how the BA10 was it's sibling in terms of sound signature with even better resolving bass I got a bit jelly when several poster's said they picked up pairs for $20 or so on closeout.

The wonderful user Nimweth posted this about the AS12. Well, wasnt too familiar with the AS12s but it seems it's got a similar following to the BA10. I dont know what I paid in USA dollares but I think it was about $25. Crossing fingers it doesn't have a shrill treble and  it has that lovely detail and detailed bass.


----------



## countryboyhk

scratchmassive said:


> Has anyone else's KZ IEMs developed imbalance issues?
> 
> My CRA left side are now at about 25% volume compared to the right. I'm super pissed as I had this recently with my ZAX. I know the CRA is a fraction the cost of the ZAX but they only lasted a couple months!
> 
> I've got a bunch of KZs and I love them, especially for their price/performance, but these quality issues along with the whole driver fiasco... I'm losing faith ya know? What's a chi-fi brand that is actually delivering honest quality? Moondrop?



Me the same, I just find out my CRA right side 50% lower volume than the left.  After 3 months burn in , the CRA kept working very well once.  Then, I left it for a week not listening and it fails all of a sudden today.  I have DQ6, ZAS, they are all working very well.  CRA's tuning is so good, I even choose it over DQ6, ZAS, that makes me so much disappointed ! I agree there are must be quality issues for CRA.


----------



## DynamicEars

I think its because of condensation on the nozzle filter. Or blocked filter. Old same problem with this kind of filter, mesh, paper, nylon filters. Just mod em and open the true potential of CRA


----------



## Sebulr

countryboyhk said:


> Me the same, I just find out my CRA right side 50% lower volume than the left.  After 3 months burn in , the CRA kept working very well once.  Then, I left it for a week not listening and it fails all of a sudden today.  I have DQ6, ZAS, they are all working very well.  CRA's tuning is so good, I even choose it over DQ6, ZAS, that makes me so much disappointed ! I agree there are must be quality issues for CRA.


My Blon BL-03s came with what I think, is a 5 percent imbalance. It's probably the filters but I just use Poweramp to tweak the left and  right channels and call it a day. I have to concentrate quite hard to notice it however. Hasn't happened to any other iem I own.


----------



## countryboyhk (Mar 18, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> I think its because of condensation on the nozzle filter. Or blocked filter. Old same problem with this kind of filter, mesh, paper, nylon filters. Just mod em and open the true potential of CRA



OMG ! It really works, never thought about that, thank you so much ! I was thinking to throw it away, its fine now.


----------



## DynamicEars

countryboyhk said:


> OMG ! It really works, never thought about that, thank you so much ! I was thinking to throw it away, its fine now.



Now get sponge / foam as damper, make sure dont block entire nozzle, give space for air to go through. 
You need to dampen the 5khz but remember to let air go through. And welcome to the better CRA.


----------



## r31ya

countryboyhk said:


> OMG ! It really works, never thought about that, thank you so much ! I was thinking to throw it away, its fine now.


Last time, my TFZ King Pro suddenly develop volume imbalance, my heart sank as that is my first somewhat expensive iem.
My only thought was, "maybe something block the holes". I simply blow and suck (heh) the iem and it works fine again.
Not the most safe or recomennded method but i was going a bit haywire on the thought that my expensive iem broke down in entering its second year of use.


----------



## r31ya (Mar 18, 2022)

independent said:


> Oh, this is quite a classic media disaster for KZ. Been following this elsewhere and here. I wonder if KZ realise how much of a problem this is?
> 
> I complained about the terrible QC on my ASX's. Got no love from the Xpress store owner or the dispute even tho the connector was so wobbly. Went in and found they overtightened and stripped the little torx screws. Its about my 5th 7th pair of KZ and I do appreciate the detailed bass of the ASX, I cannot lie. The detail overall is incredible. Regardless, since my second pair of ZS7s died and I read about how the BA10 was it's sibling in terms of sound signature with even better resolving bass I got a bit jelly when several poster's said they picked up pairs for $20 or so on closeout.
> 
> The wonderful user Nimweth posted this about the AS12. Well, wasnt too familiar with the AS12s but it seems it's got a similar following to the BA10. I dont know what I paid in USA dollares but I think it was about $25. Crossing fingers it doesn't have a shrill treble and  it has that lovely detail and detailed bass.


KZ as bare as it is, is actually among the better QC in low budget chifi realm. (not counting the normally higher budget group that enter lower budget group)
My old s*nfer somehow have shittier box, slightly worse cable than kz old cable, and iem body that somehow physically sharp..
TRN and QKZ is known for its unit variation and qc problems. Crin have to buy several VK4 just to get one that sound good.
Not quite a praise for KZ, just there are worse brand in this particular budget group.

That being said, KZ can't keep the same qc level when they enter $50+ realm where they meet the higher budget group which better qc and box.

--

btw, i saw brand new KZ BA10 for $35. should i go for it?
and yeah, the seller sold 6, 1 unit sold with 1 dead iem. *QC~!*


----------



## Nimweth

independent said:


> Oh, this is quite a classic media disaster for KZ. Been following this elsewhere and here. I wonder if KZ realise how much of a problem this is?
> 
> I complained about the terrible QC on my ASX's. Got no love from the Xpress store owner or the dispute even tho the connector was so wobbly. Went in and found they overtightened and stripped the little torx screws. Its about my 5th 7th pair of KZ and I do appreciate the detailed bass of the ASX, I cannot lie. The detail overall is incredible. Regardless, since my second pair of ZS7s died and I read about how the BA10 was it's sibling in terms of sound signature with even better resolving bass I got a bit jelly when several poster's said they picked up pairs for $20 or so on closeout.
> 
> The wonderful user Nimweth posted this about the AS12. Well, wasnt too familiar with the AS12s but it seems it's got a similar following to the BA10. I dont know what I paid in USA dollares but I think it was about $25. Crossing fingers it doesn't have a shrill treble and  it has that lovely detail and detailed bass.


I am still waiting for my AS12. It has reached Heathrow now so it shouldn't be long before I receive it. Impressions ASAP of course!


----------



## astermk

Has anyone measured KZ's all-BA models yet to see if they have the same problem of most drivers not making audible changes to the tuning?
I feel like those models might behave vastly differently because with a DD + x amount of BA setup, you could easily just make the DD full-range (as they've been doing) and just tune that way with minimal contribution from the BAs. But with a pure BA configuration? I believe none of the BAs KZ is using is supposed to be full-range, so wouldn't it make sense that those are actually tuned properly with all (or more) drivers? I'm particularly curious about the BA10 and AS12 (as they're so well liked) and the AST because of the sheer number of drivers in that thing.


----------



## countryboyhk

r31ya said:


> Last time, my TFZ King Pro suddenly develop volume imbalance, my heart sank as that is my first somewhat expensive iem.
> My only thought was, "maybe something block the holes". I simply blow and suck (heh) the iem and it works fine again.
> Not the most safe or recomennded method but i was going a bit haywire on the thought that my expensive iem broke down in entering its second year of use.



I remembered that my TRN VX have the same volume imbalance problem last year, but I threw it away already. I would never expect such a huge volume drop can be caused by a filter.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

r31ya said:


> btw, i saw brand new KZ BA10 for $35. should i go for it?



at that price it's a fantastic buy.  I was in for about $80 USD equivalent when I bought mine, and I'd pay that again for a replacement.


----------



## yaps66

countryboyhk said:


> OMG ! It really works, never thought about that, thank you so much ! I was thinking to throw it away, its fine now.


Can't beat good old head-fi wisdom!! Kudos @DynamicEars


----------



## Nimweth

astermk said:


> Has anyone measured KZ's all-BA models yet to see if they have the same problem of most drivers not making audible changes to the tuning?
> I feel like those models might behave vastly differently because with a DD + x amount of BA setup, you could easily just make the DD full-range (as they've been doing) and just tune that way with minimal contribution from the BAs. But with a pure BA configuration? I believe none of the BAs KZ is using is supposed to be full-range, so wouldn't it make sense that those are actually tuned properly with all (or more) drivers? I'm particularly curious about the BA10 and AS12 (as they're so well liked) and the AST because of the sheer number of drivers in that thing.


BA10 and AST are excellent. I have just received the AS12 and will post impressions soon.


----------



## Nimweth

The po


independent said:


> Oh, this is quite a classic media disaster for KZ. Been following this elsewhere and here. I wonder if KZ realise how much of a problem this is?
> 
> I complained about the terrible QC on my ASX's. Got no love from the Xpress store owner or the dispute even tho the connector was so wobbly. Went in and found they overtightened and stripped the little torx screws. Its about my 5th 7th pair of KZ and I do appreciate the detailed bass of the ASX, I cannot lie. The detail overall is incredible. Regardless, since my second pair of ZS7s died and I read about how the BA10 was it's sibling in terms of sound signature with even better resolving bass I got a bit jelly when several poster's said they picked up pairs for $20 or so on closeout.
> 
> The wonderful user Nimweth posted this about the AS12. Well, wasnt too familiar with the AS12s but it seems it's got a similar following to the BA10. I dont know what I paid in USA dollares but I think it was about $25. Crossing fingers it doesn't have a shrill treble and  it has that lovely detail and detailed bass.


The post just came and I now have the AS12. They are burning in. Initial impression is neutral/bright with good detail but this may change. More to come.


----------



## 1clearhead

scratchmassive said:


> Has anyone else's KZ IEMs developed imbalance issues?
> 
> My CRA left side are now at about 25% volume compared to the right. I'm super pissed as I had this recently with my ZAX. I know the CRA is a fraction the cost of the ZAX but they only lasted a couple months!
> 
> I've got a bunch of KZs and I love them, especially for their price/performance, but these quality issues along with the whole driver fiasco... I'm losing faith ya know? What's a chi-fi brand that is actually delivering honest quality? Moondrop?


Have you ever try to check if it's wax build-up on one side? 


Just last week my son's CRA had an imbalance issue too, so I checked them out and it was actually wax build-up on the right side. Sometimes it could be hard to detect. So, I took a wooden toothpick and cleaned them out and they were back to 100% balanced. You can try cleaning them out, or replace the mesh screen with another. Or, even try to take off the mesh screen once and for all with tweezers and clean-out the open space from wax build-up on a continuous basis. 

PS. This is not the first time it happens to my son.

Hope this helps...

-Clear


----------



## Nimweth

The AS12 is a very nice surprise. Excellent soundstage, pinpoint imaging and wonderful clarity. Nice balance across the frequency range. And original Starline tips as well! An absolute bargain at $29, these are going to get a lot of play time!


----------



## Nimweth

The AS12 continues to impress. One of the best out of the box experiences I have had. They scale well also. Via line out on my Xduoo X20 with a Fiio A5 amplifier they are very special. If you have the AS12 try these tracks, superb BA bass and great imaging!


----------



## IEMbiker (Mar 18, 2022)

astermk said:


> Has anyone measured KZ's all-BA models yet to see if they have the same problem of most drivers not making audible changes to the tuning?
> I feel like those models might behave vastly differently because with a DD + x amount of BA setup, you could easily just make the DD full-range (as they've been doing) and just tune that way with minimal contribution from the BAs. But with a pure BA configuration? I believe none of the BAs KZ is using is supposed to be full-range, so wouldn't it make sense that those are actually tuned properly with all (or more) drivers? I'm particularly curious about the BA10 and AS12 (as they're so well liked) and the AST because of the sheer number of drivers in that thing.


So far all the KZ I open up and measured, the AS10, ASX, ZSX,ZSN,CSN,NRA,ZEX Pro.  22955 BA use as full range and hybrid unit DD is also full range driver.


----------



## G777

astermk said:


> Has anyone measured KZ's all-BA models yet to see if they have the same problem of most drivers not making audible changes to the tuning?
> I feel like those models might behave vastly differently because with a DD + x amount of BA setup, you could easily just make the DD full-range (as they've been doing) and just tune that way with minimal contribution from the BAs. But with a pure BA configuration? I believe none of the BAs KZ is using is supposed to be full-range, so wouldn't it make sense that those are actually tuned properly with all (or more) drivers? I'm particularly curious about the BA10 and AS12 (as they're so well liked) and the AST because of the sheer number of drivers in that thing.


I measured the AS12: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16864562


----------



## Tzennn

Nimweth said:


> The AS12 continues to impress. One of the best out of the box experiences I have had. They scale well also. Via line out on my Xduoo X20 with a Fiio A5 amplifier they are very special. If you have the AS12 try these tracks, superb BA bass and great imaging!



Would you recommend it for someone who listen to Pop/Rock ?


----------



## Nimweth

Tzennn said:


> Would you recommend it for someone who listen to Pop/Rock ?


I am perhaps not the best person to ask. My favourite genres are Classical,  Ambient and Electronic. Though I will say the AS12 has a fast, immediate sound with tight bass and a wealth of detail so should be suitable for many different music styles.


----------



## Taila

courierdriver said:


> The big question is: will this be enough to save their butt? I'm surprised that there aren't more posts about how KZ flat out LIED about the fact that their recent multiple driver earphones were either covered in glue or non functional. I feel extremely bad for the guys who went out on a limb to help the company ( ie. Crinacle and HBB/BGGAR), by giving them advice and graghs to help them tune their iems...only to produce gear that is flawed. In other words, what was promised and presented/advertised; was NOT what was delivered. NOT the tuners fault...KZ’S fault for not properly manufacturing the products with FULLY FUNCTIONAL drivers.


KZ did deliver the sound the tuners wanted, it just turned to be all coming from a single driver.


----------



## Nimweth

After the recent revival of interest in the BA10 which I love, and now my positive experience with the AS12, I am tempted by the AS16 ($48 at Luck LZ store, Ali Express). Looks like a good deal!


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

ordered.





Nimweth said:


> After the recent revival of interest in the BA10 which I love, and now my positive experience with the AS12, I am tempted by the AS16 ($48 at Luck LZ store, Ali Express). Looks like a good deal!



All the reviews for as16 are positive in that it's a neutral to neutral - bright IEM. Should be a very good buy for classical.


----------



## PhonoPhi

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> ordered.
> 
> All the reviews for as16 are positive in that it's a neutral to neutral - bright IEM. Should be a very good buy for classical.


AS16 are treble-emphasized/enhanced IEM that are great for classical, especially those "golden classical recordings", which are far from treble-rich. I especially love AS16 with string quartets.
The bass is "just enough" though, not as present as in AS12 that have one the best BA bass.


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> AS16 are treble-emphasized/enhanced IEM that are great for classical, especially those "golden classical recordings", which are far from treble-rich. I especially love AS16 with string quartets.
> The bass is "just enough" though, not as present as in AS12 that have one the best BA bass.


Well,  I find there is plenty of treble for me on the AS12 and a near-perfect balance of frequencies. Brass, woodwind and strings are very good. indeed. I agree with you about the AS12's bass, very impressive. This sounds amazing, check out the trumpets and tuba!


----------



## khighly

Taila said:


> KZ did deliver the sound the tuners wanted, it just turned to be all coming from a single driver.


I saw the KZ drama recently but haven't posted on head-fi in a long time. Disappointed a little, but most for under $50 and I still use like the ZAX every single day as my main IEM, and now maybe the ZEX Pro, I'm not really actually disappointed since they sound so good anyway.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

Anyone recommend a non kz hybrid?? Possibly under 40 euro. Something with a wide stage. Can't escape the utterly cynical ( I may have misplaced an r there) nature of the kz deception. Just messaged the Ali store asking for some kind of refund for the 7 pairs I have owned. 

I will wait with bated breath for a response. 
Can anyone establish for certain that the BA 10 has 10 audible armatures who are each dealing with separate areas of the sound frequency? 

The lack of comment here from long time kz advocates is deeply suspicious. 

Business as usual.


----------



## Nimweth

Anycolouryoulike said:


> Anyone recommend a non kz hybrid?? Possibly under 40 euro. Something with a wide stage. Can't escape the utterly cynical ( I may have misplaced an r there) nature of the kz deception. Just messaged the Ali store asking for some kind of refund for the 7 pairs I have owned.
> 
> I will wait with bated breath for a response.
> Can anyone establish for certain that the BA 10 has 10 audible armatures who are each dealing with separate areas of the sound frequency?
> ...


Since BAs are tuned to a particular frequency range rather than generally being full range devices, if you are hearing a wide frequency range on your BA10 it is likely that all the drivers are functional.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Well,  I find there is plenty of treble for me on the AS12 and a near-perfect balance of frequencies. Brass, woodwind and strings are very good. indeed. I agree with you about the AS12's bass, very impressive. This sounds amazing, check out the trumpets and tuba!



I have two AS12 - the first one from its inception and the second one from the recent sales (got few of them great KZs all-BAs recently, including an extra couple of AS16 and so happy about it).
My strong feeling is that the recent/newer ones are more refined. My first AS12 and low brass did not go harmoniously together to my ears, and I removed their treble filters - liked the resulting treble canon as a special KZ 
The second AS12 was so more refined "as is", so I just left it to be enjoyed.
Though for me the "rough beasts" of modified ASX rule, and then smooth AST and treble-rich AS16 are  the second ones to listen (as great BA10, AS12 and AS10 are - they are a bit on a back burner, and then I have BGVP VG4 - nothing wrong per se, but I love KZ so much more)!



Anycolouryoulike said:


> Anyone recommend a non kz hybrid?? Possibly under 40 euro. Something with a wide stage. Can't escape the utterly cynical ( I may have misplaced an r there) nature of the kz deception. Just messaged the Ali store asking for some kind of refund for the 7 pairs I have owned.
> 
> I will wait with bated breath for a response.
> Can anyone establish for certain that the BA 10 has 10 audible armatures who are each dealing with separate areas of the sound frequency?
> ...


BA10 have 5 BAs per side and they are one of the most rich all-BAs spectrally, most extended treble
The only problem of KZ could be with those DQ6s, I would not touch them with the pole anyhow, so I do not think KZ needs any " defenders". 
KZ is doing great, perhaps other companies have a lot of problems to match KZ for their value/price and are trying to make some extra noise (?)
My "wasted" money in this hobby were with non-KZ IEMs so far.


----------



## JEHL

lushmelody said:


> my harmanish preference = good; not harmanish = bad


I know exactly 1 person who does this, and it's not even for Harman, but for Diffuse Field.


----------



## G777 (Mar 19, 2022)

Anycolouryoulike said:


> Anyone recommend a non kz hybrid?? Possibly under 40 euro. Something with a wide stage. Can't escape the utterly cynical ( I may have misplaced an r there) nature of the kz deception. Just messaged the Ali store asking for some kind of refund for the 7 pairs I have owned.
> 
> I will wait with bated breath for a response.
> Can anyone establish for certain that the BA 10 has 10 audible armatures who are each dealing with separate areas of the sound frequency?
> ...


I can confirm that all 6 BAs per side in the KZ AS12 are functional. It's quite a bit cheaper than the BA10, too.



Tzennn said:


> Would you recommend it for someone who listen to Pop/Rock ?


You'll probably have to EQ it. For me, the mids are too upfront in the stock form.

This is how my pair measures after mods and EQ (I'm a fan of the Diffuse Field/Etymotic tuning ):




The channel balance is quite impressive, especially considering these have 12 cheap BAs in total.


----------



## G777 (Mar 19, 2022)

Turns out a 30ohm impedance adapter will reduce the upper mids of the AS12:




Here's how it compares to the Aria and ER3SE:



The 2kHz peak makes it a little shouty, but much better than before. More importantly, this makes it sound quite good without the need to EQ.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

saldsald said:


> I bet even the more expensive IEMs have the same tuning concept with no real crossover as you can't really fit a good inductor low pass filter circuit in that small shell for the DD or the Bass BA. Like this Leisurely Audio (aka GS audio) E16 with 4 Sonion ESTs, 12 BAs per side priced at RMB 8000, the circuit board only involves caps and resistors.  (of higher quality than those in KZ IEMs, but still dity cheap)


That shell is so pretty!


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

sakt1moko said:


> Wanna join to the BA10 gang, probably one of the best chifi iem all time.
> 
> The last KZ iem that I like was the ASX.
> I dont like the DQ6 (uncomfortable)
> And the KZ zex pro (Ive got the preCRN version) didnt satisfy me at all.


Where can one obtain a ba10 these days? Or an og nicehck nx7?


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> Among KZ/CCA I still have listen to regularly:  CRA, NRA, ZEX Pro, BA10, C12, and the ZAX, which my wife uses mostly.  I have zero balance issues with any of them despite regular use. Is there a chance that your source might have an issue? the 2 minor issues I've had are:
> 
> ZEX Pro:  the metal shell cover did pop off of the ZEX Pro on one side and I lightly glued it back into place.
> NRA:  has a loose connector on the left channel. I keep meaning to put a drop of super glue in there to lock it down but it hasn't been a problem.
> ...



Top 10 metal album of all time, hands down.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain (Mar 20, 2022)

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Top 10 metal album of all time, hands down.



It's not as epic, but the last release, Hushed and Grim, has some fantastic tracks that evoke a bit of the same sound they explored on Crack the Skye. Brann's vocals have only gotten better. There's a guest solo on there, too, by Kim Thayil.


----------



## seanwee

countryboyhk said:


> Me the same, I just find out my CRA right side 50% lower volume than the left.  After 3 months burn in , the CRA kept working very well once.  Then, I left it for a week not listening and it fails all of a sudden today.  I have DQ6, ZAS, they are all working very well.  CRA's tuning is so good, I even choose it over DQ6, ZAS, that makes me so much disappointed ! I agree there are must be quality issues for CRA.


Just got a few more pairs of CRA in for modding and the new ones are louder than my older pairs by about 20%. Looking at the drivers it seems like the tape part of the DD is oriented towards the 2 pin rather than the nozzle like the previous ones i've modded.


----------



## scratchmassive

DynamicEars said:


> Now get sponge / foam as damper, make sure dont block entire nozzle, give space for air to go through.
> You need to dampen the 5khz but remember to let air go through. And welcome to the better CRA.


OMG I think you are right. I sucked on the left earphone and the balance almost returned to normal. Do you have a link to the sponge or foam you use to replace the filter?


----------



## courierdriver

Taila said:


> KZ did deliver the sound the tuners wanted, it just turned to be all coming from a single driver.


In a way, you are correct; but then why advertise these sets with multiple drivers, when the extra drivers don't actually DO anything? 🤔 It's deceitful advertising and rips off the consumer who is paying good money for a multiple driver set. The bottom line is: people expect to get a product that they paid for, with all the parts functioning. Would you accept a new car that has air conditioning included, but didn't actually work? Power windows and locks that didn't work? Seriously...when a consumer buys something with specifically advertised benefits, the consumer deserves that product's full potential and should expect it to be fully functional using all the elements that that were advertised.


----------



## lushmelody

courierdriver said:


> In a way, you are correct; but then why advertise these sets with multiple drivers, when the extra drivers don't actually DO anything? 🤔 It's deceitful advertising and rips off the consumer who is paying good money for a multiple driver set. The bottom line is: people expect to get a product that they paid for, with all the parts functioning. Would you accept a new car that has air conditioning included, but didn't actually work? Power windows and locks that didn't work? Seriously...when a consumer buys something with specifically advertised benefits, the consumer deserves that product's full potential and should expect it to be fully functional using all the elements that that were advertised.


That scam would do a nice study about placebo.....


----------



## courierdriver

lushmelody said:


> That scam would do a nice study about placebo.....


Not sure I get what you're saying. Can you elaborate a bit more?


----------



## Tzennn (Mar 20, 2022)

courierdriver said:


> Not sure I get what you're saying. Can you elaborate a bit more?


Something like "oh wow i use my entire fortune on the iem, there is no way it sounds worse than something cheaper"


----------



## lushmelody

courierdriver said:


> Not sure I get what you're saying. Can you elaborate a bit more?


Lots of people, including reviewers, believed the drivers were fully functional, praising the tuning and the "crossover"


Tzennn said:


> Something like "oh wow i use my entire fortune on the iem, there is no way it's sounds worse than something cheaper"


Haha yes. That price bias is the worst placebo. That shows why KZ is still relevant, for sure. Even those recent fake multi-drivers are great sound quality for the price. Contrasting a market that mainstream western or japanese brands charge $300 for single DDs....


----------



## Taila

courierdriver said:


> In a way, you are correct; but then why advertise these sets with multiple drivers, when the extra drivers don't actually DO anything? 🤔 It's deceitful advertising and rips off the consumer who is paying good money for a multiple driver set. The bottom line is: people expect to get a product that they paid for, with all the parts functioning. Would you accept a new car that has air conditioning included, but didn't actually work? Power windows and locks that didn't work? Seriously...when a consumer buys something with specifically advertised benefits, the consumer deserves that product's full potential and should expect it to be fully functional using all the elements that that were advertised.


Please understand me, I’m not saying KZ was correct in advertising multiple drivers that do not work. 
What I’m pointing out is the fact that, they delivered the tuning that Crin had approved as it is. And that tuning worked to such an extent that the collaboration was kept secret at first, the product was called ZEX Pro, and reviewers were praising the different new sound from KZ. 

Yes, some people bought the unit because it was the first tribrid at this super low price level. I’m one of the people who bought it to hear what Crin approved as acceptable on an IEM. The problem for the average people (me included) is that all these reviewers have got a certain preference on sound. So before we throw in a lot of money to buy an expensive headphone/IEM we would like to hear what they really like, and a super cheap IEM gives us that ability, so that we can understand better when they wax lyrical about something whether it’s of any interest to us or not. 

Case in point, some time last year, Dave (The Honest Audiophile) bought himself the Meze Empyrean, he was almost in tears with satisfaction and happiness with how they sound. He actually declared at the time that he was done with reviewing headphones as there’s nothing more for him out there. Of course he later returned to reviewing again, I must have missed the video where he explains why he returned. But anyway, Crin had a video not along ago where he dismisses the whole Meze line of products as not good sounding. 

So what is a person like me here in Cape Town, South Africa to think when these two reviewers say something is amazing? I’m not able to just go and listen to everything out there, and it’s prohibitively expensive to buy things to test out and return from here. The shipping costs and customs duty tax alone can add a hell of a lot of money to the base price of a product and the higher the price of that the higher the tax that starts to include luxury tax. Also the long turnaround times. 

The graphs don’t tell the whole story, it’s like an SUV and a sports car that have the same or similar power train. They feel different when you actually drive them. This is why it’s very important to understand what each reviewer think sounds good 👌🏽, put aside shilling, just honest preference. 

So in conclusion, I don’t agree with what KZ did at all, it’s deception. At the same time, if I can get a sound at ChiFi price levels similar to a $500 IEM (I’m not saying CRN sounds like IEMs at that level), I’ll go ChiFi. At the end of the day, as much as I get excited by the gear, I’m after great sound reproduction, not nicely done packaging box, extra ear tips, nice cable and included carry case. Those are just bonuses. For example what makes an Sennheiser IE600 to be coming at $700? Is it the 3D printed exotic material case, the research that went into making the transducer,  the brand name, or all of the above?


----------



## astermk (Mar 21, 2022)

courierdriver said:


> Not sure I get what you're saying. Can you elaborate a bit more?


Reviewers, including experienced ones, kept going on and on and on about KZ's 'metallic BA timbre', almost on autopilot, in every KZ IEM review. How did a headphone manufacturer convince the Hi-Fi community that its IEMs have BAs that are not only functional, but so dominant in the sound signature that they introduce a specific unnatural timbre to them, if not placebo? We went from discussions like 'man KZ really needs to tame those BAs in the nozzle' to 'WAIT they basically were inaudible this entire time?'.

IMO it just goes to show that a large part of audiophilia is actually just make believe based on spec sheets and snake oil. If the box of the IEM says 1DD + 7BA, a lot of people will 'hear' 1DD + 7BA regardless of the internal circuitry, and the 'timbre' and everything else that 'come' with them.

Which leads me to the main thing I wonder about, which is why my ZAX still sounds a lot better to me in technicalities than my ZS10 Pro, which I attributed to the higher driver count until now. Even with this knowledge (I'm assuming the BAs in the ZAX are similarly decorative), they still sound a hell of a lot better.


----------



## SpaceOperaVillain

I'm out of cheese to pass around with all the whining in this thread. I hereby cast a hex upon the heads of KZ detractors with a dozen downgrade TWS purchases in their future from name brand suppliers. May your wallets be emptied and after experiencing the greatest of kilobuck hifi cons may you be doomed to repeat your mistakes a second and even third or fourth time. 

I'm unsubscribing for awhile as this debacle has nonetheless sucked any and all joy from participating here. There are worse problems in the world to contend with. Be safe everyone. Ciao


----------



## saldsald (Mar 21, 2022)

astermk said:


> Reviewers, including experienced ones, kept going on and on and on about KZ's 'metallic BA timbre', almost on autopilot, in every KZ IEM review. How did a headphone manufacturer convince the Hi-Fi community that its IEMs have BAs that are not only functional, but so dominant in the sound signature that they introduce a specific unnatural timbre to them, if not placebo? We went from discussions like 'man KZ really needs to tame those BAs in the nozzle' to 'WAIT they basically were inaudible this entire time?'.
> 
> IMO it just goes to show that a large part of audiophilia is actually just make believe based on spec sheets and snake oil. If the box of the IEM says 1DD + 7BA, a lot of people will 'hear' 1DD + 7BA regardless of the internal circuitry, and the 'timbre' and everything else that 'come' with them.
> 
> Which leads me to the main thing I wonder about, which is why my ZAX still sounds a lot better to me in technicalities than my ZS10 Pro, which I attributed to the higher driver count until now. Even with this knowledge (I'm assuming the BAs in the ZAX are similarly decorative), they still sound a hell of a lot better.


Most of these "reviewers" just rely way too much on FR measurements and if they don't "see" on the graph they don't hear it. But after 'hearing" it on graph and then when some of the drivers are disconnected and they don't see the change their only conclusion is they dont' make a sound and they forgot about the BA timbre. Also they mistakenly think that they have good Echoic memory but probably can't remember what they just heard about a minute ago. (I admit I can't) 😂 Best commedy of the year seriously.


----------



## Nimweth

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> I'm out of cheese to pass around with all the whining in this thread. I hereby cast a hex upon the heads of KZ detractors with a dozen downgrade TWS purchases in their future from name brand suppliers. May your wallets be emptied and after experiencing the greatest of kilobuck hifi cons may you be doomed to repeat your mistakes a second and even third or fourth time.
> 
> I'm unsubscribing for awhile as this debacle has nonetheless sucked any and all joy from participating here. There are worse problems in the world to contend with. Be safe everyone. Ciao


That's a shame, you are one of the most interesting contributors here. Come back soon.


----------



## Jansvast

Graphs of iems KZ has been testing recently have been teased on the KZ discord server. They are supposedly all going to be released at some point. 

In my opinion they mostly look great, especially E (wow!), D and C. Seems like Crin influenced their mind about tuning a lot. I arranged the graphs from most to least appealing to me.

Maybe they will release all this for 30 bucks to make us forget about DriverGate, and I would not be mad at all!


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

Jansvast said:


> Maybe they will release all this for 30 bucks to make us forget about DriverGate, and I would not be mad at all!


Driver gate doesn't matter. Things happen.

Other audio brands do exist so if problems happen with any brand anybody can walk over and use other brands gear, which they should already own. This isn't the 1990s when most people were religious about Sony.


----------



## Nimweth

I am very impressed with the AS12. A neutral/bright well balanced profile with excellent BA bass. The 30012 treble units really deliver. It joins the others in my KZ Hall of Fame which are:
BA10, AST, ZS7, ED9 and ZS4.


----------



## r31ya

Jansvast said:


> Graphs of iems KZ has been testing recently have been teased on the KZ discord server. They are supposedly all going to be released at some point.
> 
> In my opinion they mostly look great, especially E (wow!), D and C. Seems like Crin influenced their mind about tuning a lot. I arranged the graphs from most to least appealing to me.
> 
> Maybe they will release all this for 30 bucks to make us forget about DriverGate, and I would not be mad at all!


It look mighty tempting. and it seems Crin tuning have great influence on this.
I wonder what kind of setup they going to use.

KZ ZS10Pro-x with (textured) bass boosted IFF neutral + current cra vocals + more natural timbre would be awesome.


----------



## Rocket222 (Mar 22, 2022)

I am considering the followings:
ZS4 - $10
ZS5 - $10
ES4 - $11
ZS6 - $17

If I only buy one from above, which one is a better buy?
And will I be disappointed if I already have ZSX and BA10?


----------



## r31ya

Rocket222 said:


> I am considering the followings:
> ZS4 - $10
> ZS5 - $10
> ES4 - $11
> ...


Personally the answer is yes.

But its due to ZS5 is quite sibilant/piercing for me and ZS6 is eargrater.
I haven't tried the ZS4 and eS4.

If you put KZ ZS7 or OG ZST in there however...


----------



## Tzennn

Rocket222 said:


> I am considering the followings:
> ZS4 - $10
> ZS5 - $10
> ES4 - $11
> ...


If your budget around 20$, the best iem you can buy is sell your ZSX and get the Aria lol


----------



## jananan78

CCA CRA treble has more texture and spacious with the filters totally removed. not sibilant at all since it's not BA.


----------



## Tzennn

jananan78 said:


> CCA CRA treble has more texture and spacious with the filters totally removed. not sibilant at all since it's not BA.


Depend on the music, no-filter to my ears feel like DQ6 but harsher, shouty mess.


----------



## jananan78

Tzennn said:


> Depend on the music, no-filter to my ears feel like DQ6 but harsher, shouty mess.


yeah that harshness you mentioned is there but it brings out some texture to the sound but i agree it would be unwelcome on tracks where treble needs to be smooth. if fits some modern pop as there's some grittiness in the track itself. while not perfect it's a variation of the sound signature.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

jananan78 said:


> filters totally removed


CCA CRA w/o filter is KZ EDX Pro


----------



## jananan78

i am beginning to wonder if there's a BA driver hiding somewhere...


----------



## jananan78

Mr.HiAudio said:


> CCA CRA w/o filter is KZ EDX Pro


i have 2 x EDX pro as well on different cables, this sounds different - more forward. but my CRA is on that thick gold silver copper mixed kz cable instead of the original cable.


----------



## leeperry (Mar 23, 2022)

Nimweth said:


> I am very impressed with the AS12. A neutral/bright well balanced profile with excellent BA bass. The 30012 treble units really deliver. It joins the others in my KZ Hall of Fame which are:
> BA10, AST, ZS7, ED9 and ZS4.



ED9+CP100 make such a great combo


----------



## Nimweth

leeperry said:


> EDP+CP100 make such a great combo


I do not know the EDP,  sorry.


----------



## Nimweth

Synergy: AS12, + KBEAR copper cable from the Believe + Topping NX1a and Xduoo X20. Brilliant!


----------



## RikudouGoku

jananan78 said:


> CCA CRA treble has more texture and spacious with the filters totally removed. not sibilant at all since it's not BA.





Mr.HiAudio said:


> CCA CRA w/o filter is KZ EDX Pro


----------



## Podster

OK KZ Fans, Pods feeling a little KZ Forward coming on and I'm offering up 3 Vintage KZ's for those who would like to have them and I'll even ship as long as it's under $8 (which was probably very close to all of their prices when released)  

So I'd like to give all three away but please one each for 3 lucky participants  1st PM for the one you want gets them  

1st we have the ZN1 with the awesome rubber garden hose cable  Comes with a KZ QDC cable as a bonus!
2nd is my color coded ZS4's w/Iron Man TRN gold balanced cable, comes with spare KZ Bronze cable for SE
3rd is the original ZST in Carbon w/silver SP cable w/matching carbon barrel, tossed in a carbon matching SE cable





First 3 responses with your first pick gets them, also let me know if you would like me to announce you as the winner of which one or you can just chill and be all I'll also respond as soon as all three are spoken for, will come in KZ cases and be packed in bubble packets  Seems like a fair deal


----------



## courierdriver

astermk said:


> Reviewers, including experienced ones, kept going on and on and on about KZ's 'metallic BA timbre', almost on autopilot, in every KZ IEM review. How did a headphone manufacturer convince the Hi-Fi community that its IEMs have BAs that are not only functional, but so dominant in the sound signature that they introduce a specific unnatural timbre to them, if not placebo? We went from discussions like 'man KZ really needs to tame those BAs in the nozzle' to 'WAIT they basically were inaudible this entire time?'.
> 
> IMO it just goes to show that a large part of audiophilia is actually just make believe based on spec sheets and snake oil. If the box of the IEM says 1DD + 7BA, a lot of people will 'hear' 1DD + 7BA regardless of the internal circuitry, and the 'timbre' and everything else that 'come' with them.
> 
> Which leads me to the main thing I wonder about, which is why my ZAX still sounds a lot better to me in technicalities than my ZS10 Pro, which I attributed to the higher driver count until now. Even with this knowledge (I'm assuming the BAs in the ZAX are similarly decorative), they still sound a hell of a lot better.


I get what you are saying now. Truth is: I'm really not trying to hate on KZ or CCA. I also own the ZS10 PRO and the ZAX, and really enjoy both. I think the ZAX is a bit more polished than the ZS10 PRO but I still enjoy it. I also have an early release of the DQ6 and also love it. In a way, I'm kinda sad that this whole drivergate thing came up; because it makes me question if the BA's in the ZS10 PRO or ZAX are all connected. On the other hand, who cares if the iems sound good? Over the past 6 months; I've purchased the CCA NRA, CCA CRA and KZ ZEX PRO/CRN. Only ones I didn't care for was the ZEX PRO/CRN. I've got way too many iems already but I'm going to take a pause on anymore KZ/CCA stuff for a while. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna pick up a few different sets, though. Currently, Olina is on my radar.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

SpaceOperaVillain said:


> It's not as epic, but the last release, Hushed and Grim, has some fantastic tracks that evoke a bit of the same sound they explored on Crack the Skye. Brann's vocals have only gotten better. There's a guest solo on there, too, by Kim Thayil.



H&G really bummed me out. I felt it could be 50% shorter and the better for it, by removing the ballads and boomer rock tunes they didn't use to do.


----------



## jananan78

RikudouGoku said:


>


yeah the treble looks similar except the peaks are different for 2k 5k and 10k, midbass lesss less pronounced. looks like a variation on the edx pro. wonder if it's the same driver...


----------



## jananan78

i wish kz used mesh like this that don't get clogged


----------



## Jansvast

jananan78 said:


> i wish kz used mesh like this that don't get clogged


It is the acoustic mesh bedind the metal one that gets so easily clogged. They do not have a gap between the metal and tuning mesh, so when earwax squeezes past the metal one, it goes straight to the fine tuning mesh and clogs it. I think they should find a way to install the tuning mesh a bit deeper inside the nozzle, so it does not get affected so easily.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

courierdriver said:


> In a way, you are correct; but then why advertise these sets with multiple drivers, when the extra drivers don't actually DO anything? 🤔 It's deceitful advertising and rips off the consumer who is paying good money for a multiple driver set. The bottom line is: people expect to get a product that they paid for, with all the parts functioning. Would you accept a new car that has air conditioning included, but didn't actually work? Power windows and locks that didn't work? Seriously...when a consumer buys something with specifically advertised benefits, the consumer deserves that product's full potential and should expect it to be fully functional using all the elements that that were advertised.


We don't know that they did that. We just have speculation and a frenzied mob.


----------



## Jansvast

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> We don't know that they did that. We just have speculation and a frenzied mob.


As Jeremy Clarkson once said: 'Stephen Hawking is a great bloke, even tho most of him doesn't work.'


----------



## jananan78

courierdriver said:


> In a way, you are correct; but then why advertise these sets with multiple drivers, when the extra drivers don't actually DO anything? 🤔 It's deceitful advertising and rips off the consumer who is paying good money for a multiple driver set. The bottom line is: people expect to get a product that they paid for, with all the parts functioning. Would you accept a new car that has air conditioning included, but didn't actually work? Power windows and locks that didn't work? Seriously...when a consumer buys something with specifically advertised benefits, the consumer deserves that product's full potential and should expect it to be fully functional using all the elements that that were advertised.


i don't agree on the paying good money part, these iems are cheap and keeps the market in check so other chifi manufacturers price accordingly. 

the lack of a true crossover prevents the frequencies from being segregated into it's proper drivers. I don't hear that magneto static driver in my zex pro but the BA is definitely there. the signature peaks in the treble range proves that for sure. 

as for the glue clogging the sound tubes and stuff it's to be expected at this price due to QC or lack of it.


----------



## jananan78

Jansvast said:


> It is the acoustic mesh bedind the metal one that gets so easily clogged. They do not have a gap between the metal and tuning mesh, so when earwax squeezes past the metal one, it goes straight to the fine tuning mesh and clogs it. I think they should find a way to install the tuning mesh a bit deeper inside the nozzle, so it does not get affected so easily.


that was the mesh from a fiio hybrid. the zex pro mesh is this


----------



## jananan78

the fiio looks like it has no tuning mesh or it might be deeper like you said


----------



## Jansvast (Mar 23, 2022)

jananan78 said:


> that was the mesh from a fiio hybrid. the zex pro mesh is this


I understand. But on the ZEX pro for example, the problem is in the tuning mesh underneath, it is a fine, delicate plastic screen basically impossible to clean. The metal grate on top is robust and feels servicable 

Note the fine acoustic screen beneath the metal mesh, ZEX pro.


----------



## rambomhtri

Hi, I've been using the KZ ZS7 for 4 years and I'm really happy with them. The build quality with all that metal is amazing and so professional, also I paired them with a custom cable (original looked fantastic the first month, then you realized it was utter cr*p). The one big fail they have is their connection: it's a pin paragraph A and it's just a rare weird non standard connection, so finding quality BT cables and stuff is hard. So much I bought one for paragraph C and modded it to fit my ZS7's. Works but not as good as an originally made for these.














Anyways, the weird A pin connection being my main reason to change for a paragraph B pin IEM, I was wondering if after 4 years KZ made a clear superior IEM. I'm looking at the KZ ZAS:













Now, they look like they are WAY BETTER than the KZ7, so much more advanced and cool, while in reality that might just be false, and it's all marketing. The problem with the ZAS is that now it's the nozzle tips the ones that are not standard, and I use tips like these:





So I am not sure if I will be able to buy that kind for the ZAS.

Anyways, what do you think? Should I go for the ZAS? Does it really uses all the BA drivers? Will the sound be more separated and round?


----------



## Nimweth (Mar 23, 2022)

rambomhtri said:


> Hi, I've been using the KZ ZS7 for 4 years and I'm really happy with them. The build quality with all that metal is amazing and so professional, also I paired them with a custom cable (original looked fantastic the first month, then you realized it was utter cr*p). The one big fail they have is their connection: it's a pin paragraph A and it's just a rare weird non standard connection, so finding quality BT cables and stuff is hard. So much I bought one for paragraph C and modded it to fit my ZS7's. Works but not as good as an originally made for these.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the ZS7 is still the best hybrid KZ have produced. The ZSX and ZAX both come close but do not have the magic the ZS7 possesses. If you can find one,  the BA10 is very similar, the mid and treble drivers are the same but it has a 22955 BA bass driver instead of the 10mm DD. You might also consider the CCA CKX which is the best CCA hybrid excellent sound, (very solid build as well) or the CA16 original which has a more mellow presentation.


----------



## ddmareo

I've only tried their single DD lineups and liked it so far, but all of them sound so similar to each other that I don't even think it's worth collecting them. Though I haven't tried their hybrid lineups except the KZ ZSN Pro (already forget the sound lol)


----------



## trumpethead

Nimweth said:


> I think the ZS7 is still the best hybrid KZ have produced. The ZSX and ZAX both come close but do not have the magic the ZS7 possesses. If you can find one,  the BA10 is very similar, the mid and treble drivers are the same but it has a 22955 BA bass driver instead of the 10mm DD. You might also consider the CCA CKX which is the best CCA hybrid excellent sound, (very solid build as well) or the CA16 original which has a more mellow presentation.


Sooooooo, Zax on sale for $47 or CKX on sale for $53?


----------



## rambomhtri

But I was not talking about the ZAX, but about the ZAS


----------



## G777

rambomhtri said:


> Hi, I've been using the KZ ZS7 for 4 years and I'm really happy with them. The build quality with all that metal is amazing and so professional, also I paired them with a custom cable (original looked fantastic the first month, then you realized it was utter cr*p). The one big fail they have is their connection: it's a pin paragraph A and it's just a rare weird non standard connection, so finding quality BT cables and stuff is hard. So much I bought one for paragraph C and modded it to fit my ZS7's. Works but not as good as an originally made for these.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those BAs probably aren't doing much at all. They are positioned quite far from the nozzle and sound ducts that lead to them don't even reach the entirety of the BAs' output ports (see pic below).





There are many better options at the price point anyways, such as the Dunu Titan S.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

RikudouGoku said:


>


do you have a 1th gen or 2th gen of EDX Pro ?  1th gen more warm, 2th get like a EDS - more bright.
they are different.
1th gen - stock box, 2th gen - small box


----------



## lushmelody

rambomhtri said:


> But I was not talking about the ZAX, but about the ZAS


Its better to avoid any recent KZ/CCA hybrid (or tribrid). Single DD is fine. Full BA presents some degree of driver dampening and dark stock tuning (that will require EQ).


----------



## lushmelody

Jansvast said:


> Graphs of iems KZ has been testing recently have been teased on the KZ discord server. They are supposedly all going to be released at some point.
> 
> In my opinion they mostly look great, especially E (wow!), D and C. Seems like Crin influenced their mind about tuning a lot. I arranged the graphs from most to least appealing to me.
> 
> Maybe they will release all this for 30 bucks to make us forget about DriverGate, and I would not be mad at all!KZ entering Harman flooding.


V is truly gone. Now they'll flood harman... Which is kinda great, tbh? They are tackling "premium", "reference" tuning AND the drivers for reasonable price markets.


----------



## saldsald

G777 said:


> Those BAs probably aren't doing much at all. They are positioned quite far from the nozzle and sound ducts that lead to them don't even reach the entirety of the BAs' output ports (see pic below).
> 
> 
> There are many better options at the price point anyways, such as the Dunu Titan S.


Thou I haven't played with the drivers inside, I think the BAs there are quite loud - louder than the DD so you see the elevated bass on graph. 
The ZAS is not bad, huge stage, just not enough balance between the Bass/mid and treble and the treble resolution is kind of lacking in comparison to the bass/mid.


----------



## Nimweth

rambomhtri said:


> But I was not talking about the ZAX, but about the ZAS


I realise that, but I have not heard the ZAS, sorry. I was just mentioning some possible alternatives.


----------



## Nimweth

trumpethead said:


> Sooooooo, Zax on sale for $47 or CKX on sale for $53?


I personally prefer the CKX. In my experience, the ZAX is more V shaped and a more "fun" tuning and the CKX is smoother and more balanced in character.


----------



## Shooting Star

KZ ZS10 Pro 
Do you also have this glue/resin problem?
It seems only 2BAs are opened in to the main chamber while other 2BAs are covered by resin. 
Can you guys take some close-up pictures of your zs10 pro & reply down here. So we can see, if it's QC issue or the Norm of it. 🤷‍♂


----------



## countryboyhk

rambomhtri said:


> So I am not sure if I will be able to buy that kind for the ZAS.
> 
> Anyways, what do you think? Should I go for the ZAS? Does it really uses all the BA drivers? Will the sound be more separated and round?


ZAS is a bass cannon.  It seems the DD always dominant than the BA drivers, not really separated sounds.  It's not as airy liked ZAX.  No matter how I change the cables and the tips, it's still not really enjoyable to me, and I do not recommend to anyone.  BTW, I also own a ZEX, it's tuning is rather similar to the ZAS, with more controlled bass.  Eventhough the soundstage is wider and highs is brighter for ZAS, but I prefer the ZEX more with its organic sounds.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Mr.HiAudio said:


> do you have a 1th gen or 2th gen of EDX Pro ?  1th gen more warm, 2th get like a EDS - more bright.
> they are different.
> 1th gen - stock box, 2th gen - small box


----------



## courierdriver

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> We don't know that they did that. We just have speculation and a frenzied mob.


Not sure how you can say that it's speculation, when 2 individuals actually tore these iems apart and showed how the drivers were either disconnected or covered with glue. That's not speculation, my friend. That's proof that they DID actually do that.


----------



## courierdriver

jananan78 said:


> i don't agree on the paying good money part, these iems are cheap and keeps the market in check so other chifi manufacturers price accordingly.
> 
> the lack of a true crossover prevents the frequencies from being segregated into it's proper drivers. I don't hear that magneto static driver in my zex pro but the BA is definitely there. the signature peaks in the treble range proves that for sure.
> 
> as for the glue clogging the sound tubes and stuff it's to be expected at this price due to QC or lack of it.


As a consumer; when I buy something; no matter what the cost; I expect it to work as advertised. Therefore; no matter the price, if a company advertises 3 or  more drivers in an earphone; as a consumer, I expect them ALL to be fully functional. It doesn't matter if the set is under $50 or more. If the set is advertised with a certain number of drivers and technology, then the set must function as described, with all components working as advertised. That is not what has happened in this case. Paying good money isn't about how much you paid. It's about how satisfied you are with your overall purchase and if the product actually functions the way it was presented and advertised. If what you spent your hard earned money on is only partially assembled, then what's the point? It's like buying an 8 cylinder car; that only has 4 cylinders that are actually working. For many people, iems under $50 are an expensive starting point and an introduction to better quality audio. They also deserve to get what they paid for. To me, it's as simple as this; if you advertised your product with features like multiple driver sets, I expect them to work as advertised with all drivers fully functional. Anything less than that, is dishonest and deceitful.


----------



## ddmareo

courierdriver said:


> As a consumer; when I buy something; no matter what the cost; I expect it to work as advertised. Therefore; no matter the price, if a company advertises 3 or  more drivers in an earphone; as a consumer, I expect them ALL to be fully functional. It doesn't matter if the set is under $50 or more. If the set is advertised with a certain number of drivers and technology, then the set must function as described, with all components working as advertised. That is not what has happened in this case. Paying good money isn't about how much you paid. It's about how satisfied you are with your overall purchase and if the product actually functions the way it was presented and advertised. If what you spent your hard earned money on is only partially assembled, then what's the point? It's like buying an 8 cylinder car; that only has 4 cylinders that are actually working. For many people, iems under $50 are an expensive starting point and an introduction to better quality audio. They also deserve to get what they paid for. To me, it's as simple as this; if you advertised your product with features like multiple driver sets, I expect them to work as advertised with all drivers fully functional. Anything less than that, is dishonest and deceitful.


as a consumer myself, I don't care about the drivers and stuff. As long as it sounds good, I'm fine with it.


----------



## courierdriver

ddmareo said:


> as a consumer myself, I don't care about the drivers and stuff. As long as it sounds good, I'm fine with it.


Fair enough. Can't argue with that at all. We are all different and we all have different tastes and expectations. Personally...and this is just me...I buy iems because I'm looking for multiple different sound signatures for the many different genres I listen to. So, I like to seek out iems with different driver configurations. When doing so, I rely alot on advertising and reviews. Tonight, I pulled the trigger on a set of 7HZ Timeless planar iems. I've never had a set of planar magnetic iems before, so after reading so many positive reviews on headfi and on YouTube; I decided to finally grab myself a pair. Can't wait to hear them and I've heard nothing bad about whether they have any driver issues.


----------



## Tzennn

courierdriver said:


> Fair enough. Can't argue with that at all. We are all different and we all have different tastes and expectations. Personally...and this is just me...I buy iems because I'm looking for multiple different sound signatures for the many different genres I listen to. So, I like to seek out iems with different driver configurations. When doing so, I rely alot on advertising and reviews. Tonight, I pulled the trigger on a set of 7HZ Timeless planar iems. I've never had a set of planar magnetic iems before, so after reading so many positive reviews on headfi and on YouTube; I decided to finally grab myself a pair. Can't wait to hear them and I've heard nothing bad about whether they have any driver issues.


Hmm but we have letshuoer s12 aswell with 50$ discount


----------



## yaps66

courierdriver said:


> Fair enough. Can't argue with that at all. We are all different and we all have different tastes and expectations. Personally...and this is just me...I buy iems because I'm looking for multiple different sound signatures for the many different genres I listen to. So, I like to seek out iems with different driver configurations. When doing so, I rely alot on advertising and reviews. Tonight, I pulled the trigger on a set of 7HZ Timeless planar iems. I've never had a set of planar magnetic iems before, so after reading so many positive reviews on headfi and on YouTube; I decided to finally grab myself a pair. Can't wait to hear them and I've heard nothing bad about whether they have any driver issues.


Congratulations! The Timeless are great iems. Love them! As @Tzennn alluded to, there is also the S12 and by many accounts, they are similar. I do love the Timeless paired with the RU6.


----------



## jananan78

courierdriver said:


> As a consumer; when I buy something; no matter what the cost; I expect it to work as advertised. Therefore; no matter the price, if a company advertises 3 or  more drivers in an earphone; as a consumer, I expect them ALL to be fully functional. It doesn't matter if the set is under $50 or more. If the set is advertised with a certain number of drivers and technology, then the set must function as described, with all components working as advertised. That is not what has happened in this case. Paying good money isn't about how much you paid. It's about how satisfied you are with your overall purchase and if the product actually functions the way it was presented and advertised. If what you spent your hard earned money on is only partially assembled, then what's the point? It's like buying an 8 cylinder car; that only has 4 cylinders that are actually working. For many people, iems under $50 are an expensive starting point and an introduction to better quality audio. They also deserve to get what they paid for. To me, it's as simple as this; if you advertised your product with features like multiple driver sets, I expect them to work as advertised with all drivers fully functional. Anything less than that, is dishonest and deceitful.


while i do agree with your point of view on this matter on other products in general, on chifi products i have been trained to keep my expectations low... lol


----------



## Nimweth

courierdriver said:


> Fair enough. Can't argue with that at all. We are all different and we all have different tastes and expectations. Personally...and this is just me...I buy iems because I'm looking for multiple different sound signatures for the many different genres I listen to. So, I like to seek out iems with different driver configurations. When doing so, I rely alot on advertising and reviews. Tonight, I pulled the trigger on a set of 7HZ Timeless planar iems. I've never had a set of planar magnetic iems before, so after reading so many positive reviews on headfi and on YouTube; I decided to finally grab myself a pair. Can't wait to hear them and I've heard nothing bad about whether they have any driver issues.


Well at least the 7Hz Timeless has only one driver. If that's not functional, you're in trouble LOL!


----------



## astermk

courierdriver said:


> Not sure how you can say that it's speculation, when 2 individuals actually tore these iems apart and showed how the drivers were either disconnected or covered with glue. That's not speculation, my friend. That's proof that they DID actually do that.


That's on the DQ6S. The speculation part is that EVERY KZ model is like this, which we can't know as of now unless someone goes through the trouble of tearing all of them down and checking the electronics or remeasuring them with the drivers deliberately disconnected. That's been done for some other models where it did turn out the BAs are heavily dampened (so, connected and outputting sound but at really low volume and basically inaudible), but on others (like the all-BA models from what I'm seeing) it seems to be a proper multi driver design where every driver is outputting sound significantly. The AS12 at least seem to be like that.

In any case, for the time being, people should prolly keep calm and just buy the CCA CRA if they want KZ. One driver, apparently killer sound, no headaches. And cheaper than most of their models.


----------



## trumpethead

Nimweth said:


> I personally prefer the CKX. In my experience, the ZAX is more V shaped and a more "fun" tuning and the CKX is smoother and more balanced in character.


Thank you!


----------



## yaps66

astermk said:


> That's on the DQ6S. The speculation part is that EVERY KZ model is like this, which we can't know as of now unless someone goes through the trouble of tearing all of them down and checking the electronics or remeasuring them with the drivers deliberately disconnected. That's been done for some other models where it did turn out the BAs are heavily dampened (so, connected and outputting sound but at really low volume and basically inaudible), but on others (like the all-BA models from what I'm seeing) it seems to be a proper multi driver design where every driver is outputting sound significantly. The AS12 at least seem to be like that.
> 
> In any case, for the time being, people should prolly keep calm and just buy the CCA CRA if they want KZ. One driver, apparently killer sound, no headaches. And cheaper than most of their models.


+1 on CRA rec


----------



## courierdriver

Tzennn said:


> Hmm but we have letshuoer s12 aswell with 50$ discount


Good point and I noticed this today while perusing the Aliexpress sale. I may have to pick up this set as well.


----------



## courierdriver

astermk said:


> That's on the DQ6S. The speculation part is that EVERY KZ model is like this, which we can't know as of now unless someone goes through the trouble of tearing all of them down and checking the electronics or remeasuring them with the drivers deliberately disconnected. That's been done for some other models where it did turn out the BAs are heavily dampened (so, connected and outputting sound but at really low volume and basically inaudible), but on others (like the all-BA models from what I'm seeing) it seems to be a proper multi driver design where every driver is outputting sound significantly. The AS12 at least seem to be like that.
> 
> In any case, for the time being, people should prolly keep calm and just buy the CCA CRA if they want KZ. One driver, apparently killer sound, no headaches. And cheaper than most of their models.


Agreed. Where is @Slater, when I need him? That dude has the skills to break down these KZ'S and figure out if components are working or not. He disected a bunch of TRN replacement cables a few years ago and has the skills to rip these multi driver sets apart and test them to see if they work.


----------



## kalo86

Hello guys, what do you think about the KZ ZES?


----------



## Nimweth

AS16 selling for $43.50 at Luck LZ store, Ali Express. That is a very good price.


----------



## jant71

Nimweth said:


> AS16 selling for $43.50 at Luck LZ store, Ali Express. That is a very good price.


Though it will be $40 more if you want one where all the drivers are connected.  Hey somebody had to make the joke.


----------



## Nimweth

jant71 said:


> Though it will be $40 more if you want one where all the drivers are connected.  Hey somebody had to make the joke.


Ha ha, that's good. Mind you, it is likely that in all-BA iems that all drivers are functional.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Mar 26, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Though it will be $40 more if you want one where all the drivers are connected.  Hey somebody had to make the joke.


I really feel sorry about this joking about KZ and all this recent hoopla...
Mostly about those joking, not KZ.

Only DQ6s problems are reasonably proven, abd I personally would not touch this tuner's items with a pole anyhow.

Then ZEX pro, that I was afraid to be downtuned in treble, are really honestly tuned. All the drivers are there, and understandably most complaints are about the treble, my respect to Crin!

DQ6 (original) allegations are just silly to me, if that is a single DD, just bravo, KZ.
I did dissassemble CCZ Emerald with totally dead BAs (it did not sound any "BA" to me to look into it) and I can confirm that the "EST" in CRA is real, I listened to it alone with the DD disconnected - weird (to me) both by the sound and the design- but honest functional implementation at least.

Of the recent, ZAS and AST are treble lame/downtuned.
AST with the treble of BA10 or ZAX would be a dream or ZAX with a bass BA instead of its lame (to me) DD.
Then I am more with the "conspiracy theory" if the close-knit Chi-Fi " village", so KZ can't put others out of existence.

For the AS16, I got my first for $100 and was only sorry that I did not get it right away listening to all those reviewers complaining about the bass and teble.

I hot my second and third for $80 for two  .
Really great with "golden classics", modern-day electronic music can be harsh due to its nicely accentuated treble at 2-3 kHz.


----------



## astermk

Nimweth said:


> Ha ha, that's good. Mind you, it is likely that in all-BA iems that all drivers are functional.


Would really like it if someone who owns an AS16 or AST actually measured them. 
Going speculative for a moment, that might be a reason why the all-BA models are typically more expensive overall than the hybrids with the same driver count - if there is actual crossover engineering and tuning going on.


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> I really feel sorry about this joking about KZ and all this recent hoopla...
> Mostly about those joking, not KZ.
> 
> Only DQ6s problems are reasonably proven, abd I personally would not touch this tuner's items with a pole anyhow.
> ...


Don't forget the AS12. It sounds excellent, the treble is extended, detailed and delicate.Very clear open mids and one of the best for BA bass as well. Also, I find the treble on the AST very good, I do not notice anything lacking.


----------



## Noteblue

Hi guys, I'm still , but very happy, with my ZS6 and my players Xduoo X3 and Fiio x1 old gen, I also have ZSN ZST ATE ATR ED9 ZS3 ZS5 and others ... would it be worth updating with ZAX or Moondrop Air or what? Thanks in advance


----------



## kalo86

Noteblue said:


> Hi guys, I'm still , but very happy, with my ZS6 and my players Xduoo X3 and Fiio x1 old gen, I also have ZSN ZST ATE ATR ED9 ZS3 ZS5 and others ... would it be worth updating with ZAX or Moondrop Air or what? Thanks in advance


I think you should evaluate the ZAX. 
For me they are very good!


----------



## Noteblue

many thanks @kalo86 for your important opinion!
Does anyone have ZS6 and ZAX or ARIA Moondrop would be able to tell me if there are differences so important to evaluate a new purchase?


----------



## rayliam80

Noteblue said:


> many thanks @kalo86 for your important opinion!
> Does anyone have ZS6 and ZAX or ARIA Moondrop would be able to tell me if there are differences so important to evaluate a new purchase?



I don't have the Aria but the ZS6 and ZAX, I do have. These are just my opinions so YMMV. The ZAX is more sensitive than the ZS6 and comes off as source agnostic. It doesn't need anything fancy to drive it so a smartphone will suffice. The older KZs, like the ZS6, were less sensitive so they could maybe benefit from amping, etc. Again, it's very debatable. The ZAX is, overall, a better earphone than the ZS6. It sounds as detailed as the ZS6 without coming off as overly fatiguing or harsh. I can wear silicone tips with the ZAX whereas with the ZS6 I can only use foams for long listening sessions (greater than 30 minutes). In just a quick A\B comparison, the ZS6 isn't as dynamic. The ZS6 isn't as textured as the ZAX. The ZAX has a more natural timbre to my ears than the ZS6.


----------



## Noteblue

rayliam80 said:


> Non ho l'Aria ma lo ZS6 e lo ZAX, ce l'ho. Queste sono solo le mie opinioni quindi YMMV. Lo ZAX è più sensibile dello ZS6 e risulta indipendente dalla sorgente. Non ha bisogno di niente di speciale per guidarlo, quindi uno smartphone sarà sufficiente. I KZ più vecchi, come lo ZS6, erano meno sensibili quindi potevano forse beneficiare dell'amplificazione, ecc. Ancora una volta, è molto discutibile. Lo ZAX è, nel complesso, un auricolare migliore rispetto allo ZS6. Suona dettagliato come lo ZS6 senza risultare eccessivamente faticoso o duro. Posso indossare punte in silicone con lo ZAX mentre con lo ZS6 posso usare solo schiume per lunghe sessioni di ascolto (superiori a 30 minuti). In un rapido confronto A\B, lo ZS6 non è così dinamico. Lo ZS6 non è strutturato come lo ZAX. Lo ZAX ha un timbro più naturale per le mie orecchie rispetto allo ZS6.


Thank you so much dear friend @rayliam80. 
Very detailed answer 🙏


----------



## saldsald

No one even cares about the end of this drama here?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2839232659710678/


----------



## MacAttack7

saldsald said:


> No one even cares about the end of this drama here?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2839232659710678/


I'm so confused.
So it sounds like the KZ CRN/ZEX PRO was bashed for no reason....it was all a mistake?
If that's the case why did Crinacle jump on board too? I thought he was sort of an earphone expert.


----------



## countryboyhk

saldsald said:


> No one even cares about the end of this drama here?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2839232659710678/


Law of the Boomerang  ​


----------



## saldsald (Mar 27, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm so confused.
> So it sounds like the KZ CRN/ZEX PRO was bashed for no reason....it was all a mistake?
> If that's the case why did Crinacle jump on board too? I thought he was sort of an earphone expert.


Obviously they can't tell the subtle differences between before and after disconnecting BAs/MST or whatever and have been relying on the FR from the beginning. As I said our echoic memory is not reliable and unless you have a two pairs of the same IEMs to act as a control, all these expert talks are just BS. Anyone with an IEC coupler can be an "expert" or an ignorant fellow.


----------



## evasb

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm so confused.
> So it sounds like the KZ CRN/ZEX PRO was bashed for no reason....it was all a mistake?
> If that's the case why did Crinacle jump on board too? I thought he was sort of an earphone expert.


Crinacle jumped the ship because of the pressure. Pretty sad.

But the DQ6(S) thing didn't help KZ at all.


----------



## astermk

So, basically, it turns out that KZ's explanation that their other drivers are useful for improving technicalities despite their low volume output was...entirely correct, and the IEM community made complete clowns of themselves. Again.

When an extremely reputable manufacturer like DUNU comes out and says every expensive Sonion EST IEM (including their own) behaves in the exact same way, I'm gonna say that the case is closed.

And this re-explains the differences that are clearly present between KZs with different driver counts despite same-looking frequency graphs and overall tuning.


----------



## r31ya

Noteblue said:


> many thanks @kalo86 for your important opinion!
> Does anyone have ZS6 and ZAX or ARIA Moondrop would be able to tell me if there are differences so important to evaluate a new purchase?


haven't tried ZAX and its been awhile since i tried ZS6.

but between ZS6 and Aria, i would choose Aria in heartbeat. different price bracket tough.
ZS6 is from KZ sibilant, piercing, eargrater era. (i might be sensitive to it but yeah)
Aria with its somewhat balanced sound, decent bass, great vocals, is better than ZS6.
ZS7 age better for me. If you could find it, that might be a good deal.

ZAX have its own following, people who purchase it seems to be satisfied with it.
CCA CKX is also around with supposedly better bass, better vocal, and smoother treble compared to ZAX.
Tough apparently zax have better soundstage and airier performance thanks to semi open design.


----------



## r31ya

evasb said:


> Crinacle jumped the ship because of the pressure. Pretty sad.
> 
> But the DQ6(S) thing didn't help KZ at all.


Crin kinda buckled but mostly said that it hit the graph target, it need better driver to upgrade, and found out that mostly or 90% of the sound is from the Dynamic driver.
The other two driver is functional but perform way less than Crin expect as he found out on its crossover setup.

ZEX pro is pretty damn great, i use Aria and zex pro sparingly, 
and other than zexpro slightly wonky treble part, i don't miss aria much when i use it.
Its separation and coherence is pretty damn good, something that outperform even the aria.
---

this sounds superb in ZexPro and the main reason why i don't believe Zex pro is single driver.
IF its single driver thats one hell of single driver to have that degree of separation and layering.


----------



## PhonoPhi

astermk said:


> So, basically, it turns out that KZ's explanation that their other drivers are useful for improving technicalities despite their low volume output was...entirely correct, and the IEM community made complete clowns of themselves. Again.
> 
> When an extremely reputable manufacturer like DUNU comes out and says every expensive Sonion EST IEM (including their own) behaves in the exact same way, I'm gonna say that the case is closed.
> 
> And this re-explains the differences that are clearly present between KZs with different driver counts despite same-looking frequency graphs and overall tuning.


Very true!
ZEX pro drivers are real.
DQ6 original are great IEM, one of the best performance/price.
Then CRA are amazing for the money, not my preferred sound, but I got 5 pairs to give as presents.
So KZ seems to be unbeatable by IEMs, so the rumours are the only resort, the echo of the toxic cancel culture (?)

On another note, I do not have ZS6, while Aria and ZAX are different animals. ZAX are a hybrid and great with resolution, one of the best treble to my ears.
Aria are a single DD, smooth, Harman-like, almost boring, if not for some spicing around 5 Kz.

I do respect Aria tuning (and the build is great, and the box), a good reference point for my collection.
But then for smooth IEMs, AST > TRI I3  > Aria to me.


----------



## evasb (Mar 27, 2022)

When I discovered (before the drama) that DQ6 6 mm DDs didn't work, I didn't get angry at all. I don't care too much about the quantity of drivers, but about the sound it emits.

I understand people mad about it, but I think we need to give a clear signal to KZ that the drivers don't matter but the sound. People shouldn't pressure KZ to "fix" the DQ6 with the 3 drivers working, but re-releasing the DQ6S as what it really is, a great single DD iem (with a better shell).


----------



## MacAttack7

astermk said:


> So, basically, it turns out that KZ's explanation that their other drivers are useful for improving technicalities despite their low volume output was...entirely correct, and the IEM community made complete clowns of themselves. Again.
> 
> When an extremely reputable manufacturer like DUNU comes out and says every expensive Sonion EST IEM (including their own) behaves in the exact same way, I'm gonna say that the case is closed.
> 
> And this re-explains the differences that are clearly present between KZs with different driver counts despite same-looking frequency graphs and overall tuning.


I kind of assumed all of the popular reviewers knew how all of the different drivers worked, so if what DUNU said is accurate, then I just have to laugh at myself for taking these reviewers's opinions somewhat seriously.


----------



## seanwee

jananan78 said:


> CCA CRA treble has more texture and spacious with the filters totally removed. *not sibilant at all since it's not BA*.


That couldn't be further from the truth


----------



## Nimweth

r31ya said:


> haven't tried ZAX and its been awhile since i tried ZS6.
> 
> but between ZS6 and Aria, i would choose Aria in heartbeat. different price bracket tough.
> ZS6 is from KZ sibilant, piercing, eargrater era. (i might be sensitive to it but yeah)
> ...


+1 for ZS7. It seems to be available here:
https://gbr.grandado.com/products/c...zst-1?variant=UHJvZHVjdFZhcmlhbnQ6MjI2OTU1MzY


----------



## ShaneyMac

Today I bought my first Chi-Fi IEM since late 2020 and Moondrop SSP. $15 for KZ DQ6 on Linsoul, I hope they are worth the money and I don't care if they are tribrid, hybrid or whatever, I just want them to sound nice and fun  After all, the music matters. 
Fun fact: KZ's own ZSR was my first IEM that pushed me into this rabbit hole, some 4 years ago. I don't know if their 2 BA drivers were disconnected, dampened or not, but they sound nice and fun and I still enjoy them a lot.


----------



## Jansvast

ShaneyMac said:


> Today I bought my first Chi-Fi IEM since late 2020 and Moondrop SSP. $15 for KZ DQ6 on Linsoul, I hope they are worth the money and I don't care if they are tribrid, hybrid or whatever, I just want them to sound nice and fun  After all, the music matters.
> Fun fact: KZ's own ZSR was my first IEM that pushed me into this rabbit hole, some 4 years ago. I don't know if their 2 BA drivers were disconnected, dampened or not, but they sound nice and fun and I still enjoy them a lot.


Nice deal on that! If you find the treble a bit sharp, then you can try the foam filter mod, many praise it. 

I totally agree on the music part, heck, no matter the gear, Fox Stevenson always gets me dancing!


----------



## ShaneyMac

Jansvast said:


> heck, no matter the gear, Fox Stevenson always gets me dancing!


... same thing with me and mister Manu Chao


----------



## myromeo

Anyone tried the ZEX Pro / CRN via balanced output? How do they scale?


----------



## ericf

I'd like an explanation from the headphone companies about what was just revealed. If the EST-drivers and magnetostat-drivers are ONLY used for tuning, then wouldn't that mean you can't hear THEM but only the effect they have on the other drivers (Dynamic and BA)? If so, what's the point of talking about the 'sound characteristics' of EST-drivers? You wouldn't be able to hear them. Or if my line of thought is wrong, an explanation that can be understood by a layman would be nice. Would that mean these drivers work a bit like noice cancelling and block out certain frequencies and enchance others?
I don't think one should criticize reviewers for not knowing the tech well enough though. That isn't their purpose. They are deciding if the sound of the headphone is to their liking or not.


----------



## Podster

Podster said:


> OK KZ Fans, Pods feeling a little KZ Forward coming on and I'm offering up 3 Vintage KZ's for those who would like to have them and I'll even ship as long as it's under $8 (which was probably very close to all of their prices when released)
> 
> So I'd like to give all three away but please one each for 3 lucky participants  1st PM for the one you want gets them
> 
> ...


Bump Announcement: Jansvast of Slovakia is now (or will be when the postman gets by) the owner of that pristine pair of original ZST's  Other two are on the block still  Figured there would be a few collectors interested


----------



## nraymond

ericf said:


> I don't think one should criticize reviewers for not knowing the tech well enough though. That isn't their purpose. They are deciding if the sound of the headphone is to their liking or not.


Well I think part of the problem is that some reviewers write their headphone/earphone/cable reviews with the tone of authority that isn't necessary deserved. While they don't really use scientific language per se, they use technical language and combine it with some rather flowery descriptions that get them readers/followers, and I think can confuse a lot of people since how things really work can be obscured and over-simplified (or mis-understood), and some readeres can come away from a review thinking they know more than they really do about a product or technology. You can get an appreciation of how complex testing and making headphones is from talks like this:



It's not easy! I also get the impression that some companies don't want to talk too much about their tech so that they don't "give it away" so to speak. (Since Samsung acquired HARMAN in 2016, things seem to have quieted down in terms of their R&D people publicly talking about audio technology measurements and headphone/speaker designs.) Especially since there is a lot of IP theft that goes on, both within the borders of countries and internationally, I can see why companies might be keeping quiet. But I don't have any problem holding reviewers feet to the fire for implying they know more than they do. Consumers are confused enough to start with and don't need over-confident reviewers using vague language to make things even more confusing. It'd be nice to see reviewers take a more investigate approach and ask companies questions about their products to try to shed some light on things too.


----------



## saldsald (Mar 28, 2022)

ericf said:


> I'd like an explanation from the headphone companies about what was just revealed. If the EST-drivers and magnetostat-drivers are ONLY used for tuning, then wouldn't that mean you can't hear THEM but only the effect they have on the other drivers (Dynamic and BA)? If so, what's the point of talking about the 'sound characteristics' of EST-drivers? You wouldn't be able to hear them. Or if my line of thought is wrong, an explanation that can be understood by a layman would be nice. Would that mean these drivers work a bit like noice cancelling and block out certain frequencies and enchance others?
> I don't think one should criticize reviewers for not knowing the tech well enough though. That isn't their purpose. They are deciding if the sound of the headphone is to their liking or not.


If the reviewers don't understand something and post something online blaming a company they should be blamed for misleading the viewers and damaging the reputation of the company. In most cases they should even face a lawsuit of committing a slander.

Anyway, you can consider these drivers as low volume speakers and they usually are audible despite being a few tenths of dB lower in output. They are being claimed inaudible by reviewers including crinacle and delta fyre because they likely used incorrect approaches and jumped into conclusions ( not saying the IEM makers are 100% not adding drivers for driver counts ) such as:

1. Assuming SPL (IEC coupler) a sufficient tool to describe the sound - if no change after disconnecting some drivers then the drivers are fake - if this is true, all IEMs with similar SPLs should sound the same;
2. Did not A/B the IEMs before and after disconnecting the driver - they should have added switches to the drivers or simlly get an extra copy. Since they can't remember the sound before the disconnection, they used their SPLs. Also, SPL of each individual drivers should have been measured so we can identify if there is a blocked sound path or a dead driver.
3. Assumed if the drivers are a few tenths of dB lower than the main diver then it is not audible but of course they are.
4. Misunderstanding of the "crossover" circuit - it is never really a crossover as you can not apply low pass filter to the limited space of an IEM, also the high pass filters tame frequencies on the upper end of the spectrum not the lower so they are also not really used as a real crossover. In other words, in most cases you are going to see the SPL of the DD in a hybrid set if it is measured.
5. Misleading information from the IEM makers - such as calling the PCB circuit a crossover or calling a driver boosting vocal clarity etc.
6.Also, crinacle should have tested with different resistors or no resistor before the driver to support his view of not utilising the driver enough. I assume some BA timbre can be recovered.


----------



## saldsald

nraymond said:


> Well I think part of the problem is that some reviewers write their headphone/earphone/cable reviews with the tone of authority that isn't necessary deserved. While they don't really use scientific language per se, they use technical language and combine it with some rather flowery descriptions that get them readers/followers, and I think can confuse a lot of people since how things really work can be obscured and over-simplified (or mis-understood), and some readeres can come away from a review thinking they know more than they really do about a product or technology. You can get an appreciation of how complex testing and making headphones is from talks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not easy! I also get the impression that some companies don't want to talk too much about their tech so that they don't "give it away" so to speak. (Since Samsung acquired HARMAN in 2016, things seem to have quieted down in terms of their R&D people publicly talking about audio technology measurements and headphone/speaker designs.) Especially since there is a lot of IP theft that goes on, both within the borders of countries and internationally, I can see why companies might be keeping quiet. But I don't have any problem holding reviewers feet to the fire for implying they know more than they do. Consumers are confused enough to start with and don't need over-confident reviewers using vague language to make things even more confusing. It'd be nice to see reviewers take a more investigate approach and ask companies questions about their products to try to shed some light on things too.



Can't agree more but there is no harm to take a read of their subjective opinions and igore the technical bits.


----------



## nraymond

saldsald said:


> Can't agree more but there is no harm to take a read of their subjective opinions and igore the technical bits.


No harm per se, but not necessarily enlightening either. It'd be one thing if we knew the size and shape of a reviewer's ears as well as their hearing acuity relative to our own so we'd have some sense of how well our senses aligned, but we don't know that, so that makes personal reviews more of a gamble. That can be compensated for to a degree by reading more reviews of the same item from different people, which broadens the "ear" perspective, but leaves the reader to guesstimate how that composite would map onto their own experience.


----------



## saldsald

nraymond said:


> No harm per se, but not necessarily enlightening either. It'd be one thing if we knew the size and shape of a reviewer's ears as well as their hearing acuity relative to our own so we'd have some sense of how well our senses aligned, but we don't know that, so that makes personal reviews more of a gamble. That can be compensated for to a degree by reading more reviews of the same item from different people, which broadens the "ear" perspective, but leaves the reader to guesstimate how that composite would map onto their own experience.


you can take it as a standard deviation with combined variables (ear tips, ear anatomy, source, cable, songs, etc.) and with enough data (reviews) you will still see some truths in this guesstimation.


----------



## 1clearhead (Mar 30, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> I really feel sorry about this joking about KZ and all this recent hoopla...
> Mostly about those joking, not KZ.
> 
> Only DQ6s problems are reasonably proven, abd I personally would not touch this tuner's items with a pole anyhow.
> ...


Did you mean *CCA NRA?* You keep mentioning that the CRA's has an EST inside the housing unit. The CRA's are just a DD unit.

...and I quote, you said:

"DQ6 (original) allegations are just silly to me, if that is a single DD, just bravo, KZ.
I did dissassemble CCZ Emerald with totally dead BAs (it did not sound any "BA" to me to look into it) *and I can confirm that the "EST" in CRA is real*, I listened to it alone with the DD disconnected - weird (to me) both by the sound and the design- but honest functional implementation at least."

PS. Maybe you just made an honest mistake...It can occasionally happen to me, too! 

-Clear


----------



## PhonoPhi

1clearhead said:


> Did you mean *CCA NRA?* You keep mentioning that the CRA's has an EST inside the housing unit. The CRA's are just a DD unit.
> 
> ...and I quote, you said:
> 
> ...


Yes, I meant NRA there, sorry.
I dissassembled NRA and listened to those strange new drivers (the suspended plate is magnetic) alone:



The CRA slip is perhaps due to the fact that I got 5 copies of that single DD - very cost-effective.

Way too many acronyms for CCA...


----------



## jananan78

PhonoPhi said:


> Yes, I meant NRA there, sorry.
> I dissassembled NRA and listened to those strange new drivers (the suspended plate is magnetic) alone:
> 
> 
> ...


maybe they need to put something to dampen the volume of the DD so we can crank up the volume to actually be able to hear the EST since it's been said it's impossible to put a real crossover due to size and cost factors? seems an economical solution..


----------



## Jansvast (Mar 30, 2022)

Hi guys, I'd like to share my mod to make the CRA neutral sounding.

The problems: overwhelming bass and distracting treble.

To tame the bass, you need to open the shell (won't be without damage, you will need to make a new faceplate) and remove the mesh on the DD vent. This vent controls bass. The more blocked the vent is, the less bass the driver will output, It can't "breathe".
Cut a tiny piece of electrical tape, so it will fit over the DD vent. Put it on a piece of styrofoam and puncture the centre with a pin. After that, squish that piece of tape flat multiple times in between your fingers to close up the hole you just made. Gently stick it over the vent with the holes centred.

Now onto the treble. Remove the stock filter. Then, you can use a variety of materials you propably have at home. I opted for the coarser mesh material found in FFP2 masks. Cut a strip around 10x30-40mm, fold it leghtwise and then roll it up or keep folding in half along it's width until it fits in the nozzle. Then, top it off with a piece of fine packaging foam for some extra dampening and protection.

And viola! You've created a very pleasing neutral iem. Feel free to play with different materials and quantities in the nozzle to get a sound you like.

I gotta make an epoxy faceplate for this one, I like it over my ZEX pro. Tighter bass (still has a cute little rumble) and smoother yet detailed treble, lush vocals. I love it!

Enjoy


----------



## saldsald

I think this answers quite a lot of queries here.


----------



## Podster

Podster said:


> OK KZ Fans, Pods feeling a little KZ Forward coming on and I'm offering up 3 Vintage KZ's for those who would like to have them and I'll even ship as long as it's under $8 (which was probably very close to all of their prices when released)
> 
> So I'd like to give all three away but please one each for 3 lucky participants  1st PM for the one you want gets them
> 
> ...


Bump Bump Announcement: However per request will remain a mystery but the ZS4's are officially off the table and being (Hopefully) enjoyed again  

In the mean time time getting Jiggy with these  4th Gen Touch, the Infamously noisy Topping NX1 and 6's  





Just realized my Ukrainian pair in the background!!!


----------



## MacAttack7

KZ AST
Saw this posting on FB. I have a couple pairs of AST's....thinking I should have stuck with one after seeing this.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/195342732@N08/albums/72177720297726296/with/51972332231/


> Here it is. Physical evidence my AST set is actually only using 5 balanced armatures.. While all 12 are indeed firing, the 6 50024 and 1 30019 are shelved on a track that has a dead end where the sound tunnel should start and travel to the nozzle. Or at least splice into another.
> The fact that the 3d printed housing is glued in air tight leaves no room to argue they are there to provide extra air treble in the shell or something silly like that.
> There are so many things that are confusing about this find. why are the BA drivers working.. why the waste? Also looking back at the illustrated photoshop marketing images, I can clearly find the tunnel going to the back in the housing. was it just an after thought? or was it just too hard to be able to actually get a good sounding set with that amount of drivers? I have opened up more sets than this. The CCA CS16 has sound tunnels snaking around each other no problem. I was impressed with that. Its not a technical issue with the housing.
> Yes both left and right were a perfect mirror image of each other. so quality assurance? control? Whatever you wanna call it. it looks pretty damn good as far as consistency on both sides.
> I just wanna mention the CS16 and AS12 are good to go.. no funny issues. Everything checks out.


----------



## Taila

MacAttack7 said:


> KZ AST
> Saw this posting on FB. I have a couple pairs of AST's....thinking I should have stuck with one after seeing this.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/195342732@N08/albums/72177720297726296/with/51972332231/


Yikes 😱, I think I’ll stick to single driver units now for quite a while, when an average user like me buy these products, we are not able to measure them, you simply take it that what you have is what’s standard and had been advertised. At least it’s great if you happen to really like how they sound. But the extra funds paid for what exactly? Man this is becoming like the PS Audio Powerplant 12 issue. 

If on some products models with many drivers, all are working and some models have excluded drivers, it it a case of very poor QA/QC or intentional, if so why if the same company is able to deal with many drivers.


----------



## Jansvast (Mar 31, 2022)

Hi guys, more teased KZ graphs were released.

As it turns out, the ones we liked the most were Moondrops, the B2D and Kato and their rig is just horribly off...

KZ seems to be focusing on their typical V shaped sets but now adding obnoxious bass. The new EDA is supposed to have 3 variants, "balanced", "bass" and "hifi". And it looks "balanced" version has more bass than the TRN BAX on their graph.

The "hifi" and "balanced" one looks pretty good on the other graphs, but take from these graphs what you will...


----------



## ExTubeGamer

It is time to mod a KZ AST. Release those BAs.

I would love to create a beautiful sounding IEM out of this one. Maybe we can drill extra holes for the BAs?


----------



## kennyhack

KZ EDA announced on KZ Bangladesh Facebook page.


----------



## 4ceratops

ExTubeGamer said:


> It is time to mod a KZ AST. Release those BAs.
> 
> I would love to create a beautiful sounding IEM out of this one. Maybe we can drill extra holes for the BAs?



I admire your optimism that you're going to make those wretched headphones play decently.


----------



## Jansvast

kennyhack said:


> KZ EDA announced on KZ Bangladesh Facebook page.


Wait, all 3 versions in one box? Any price guesses? Interesting!


----------



## ExTubeGamer

4ceratops said:


> I admire your optimism that you're going to make those wretched headphones play decently.


These in ears have good technicalities.

I'm sure we can improve it.


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> Bump Bump Announcement: However per request will remain a mystery but the ZS4's are officially off the table and being (Hopefully) enjoyed again
> 
> In the mean time time getting Jiggy with these  4th Gen Touch, the Infamously noisy Topping NX1 and 6's
> 
> ...


Man, what is the thick tube? That looks like it belongs inside of a car engine. 😁


----------



## G777

Jansvast said:


> Hi guys, more teased KZ graphs were released.
> 
> As it turns out, the ones we liked the most were Moondrops, the B2D and Kato and their rig is just horribly off...
> 
> ...


Interesting. Can you put all 3 on the same graph?


----------



## Jansvast

G777 said:


> Interesting. Can you put all 3 on the same graph?


Here you go. I used photo editor XD


----------



## r31ya

kennyhack said:


> KZ EDA announced on KZ Bangladesh Facebook page.
> '


_"Tuning knob is abit difficult, let's just put three different tuned iem in a box and be done with it"_


----------



## MacAttack7

I don't know if I can buy another KZ if what was posted on the FB thread about the AST is actually true about 7 of the drivers out of 12 on each side being closed off.
That would just about excede my shadiness acceptance level.
The AST is basically a custom-fit for my ear though, so at least it has that going for it since I have two of them.


----------



## jananan78

r31ya said:


> _"Tuning knob is abit difficult, let's just put three different tuned iem in a box and be done with it"_


tuning knobs will be like fiio fh5s but they are dip switches instead


----------



## countryboyhk (Apr 2, 2022)

Jansvast said:


> Wait, all 3 versions in one box? Any price guesses? Interesting!



Preorder price 108 rmb, SRP 198 rmb, and its real ! I guess KZ is getting so tired of selling ( $5 ) low-end DD one at a time, lets make it bundle with some gimmick, people like bundling anyway


----------



## Jansvast

countryboyhk said:


> Presale price 108 rmb, SRP 198 rmb, and its real ! I guess KZ is getting so tired of selling ( $5 ) low-end DD one at a time, lets make it bundle with some gimmick, people like bundling anyway


Ok, that's stupid cheap. If my conversion is correct that is 15 bucks!


----------



## hmscott

kennyhack said:


> KZ EDA announced on KZ Bangladesh Facebook page.





Jansvast said:


> Wait, all 3 versions in one box? Any price guesses? Interesting!





countryboyhk said:


> Presale price 108 rmb, SRP 198 rmb, and its real ! I guess KZ is getting so tired of selling ( $5 ) low-end DD one at a time, lets make it bundle with some gimmick, people like bundling anyway


Hey guys!, please share the link(s) so we can all pre-order! 

I'm not finding anything on my own, so far...


----------



## countryboyhk

hmscott said:


> Hey guys!, please share the link(s) so we can all pre-order!
> 
> I'm not finding anything on my own, so far...



Its in JD.COM, I think the pre-order is for China market only,  so it's better not to share the link.


----------



## hmscott

countryboyhk said:


> Its in JD.COM, I think the pre-order is for China market only,  so it's better not to share the link.


啊哈，明白了。妈妈的话！
伊克斯尼在阿姆斯克雷，纳奇。
(Aha, got it.  Mums the word!
Icksney on the Amscray, Natch.)


----------



## Tzennn (Apr 2, 2022)

Ugh guess i can buy them but it will take month to arrive so ... It's 20$


----------



## r31ya

never bought anything from this site but apparently they have presale going on KZ EDA

https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-eda

And someshit about the new DD, should be interesting.
If it came with three cable i could use this for officemates gift.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 2, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> Ugh guess i can buy them but it will take month to arrive so ... It's 20$


Awesome 

I am now seeing the same bundling price range:



BTW, pumping up the customer front speak on each listing!  Here is the 478 yuan listing, but IDK what "Game eating Chicken Headphones" are, but if they come with a "spicy breaded coating" and "hot oil dipping sauce", I am in!

"KZ EDA dynamic combination in-ear headphones wired ear-mounted music HIFI headphones headset diy high-quality game eating chicken headphones 3.5mm with wheat version [three pairs of a set] [package three] standard + 784 blue and silver wire + AZ09PRO
[New products are on the market, the pre-sale deposit is 10 yuan to 90 yuan, and the standard version is only 108 yuan] Three pairs, three different styles of tuning, excellent curves, suitable for a variety of styles.

I was about to buy the KZ AZ09Pro anyway, so I guess I should order the 458 yuan listing... maybe I'll read all of them to see if there is something else fun to go with the KZ-EDA,

Now I need to figure out how to set up an account and get shipping to the USA


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

hmscott said:


> Awesome
> 
> I am now seeing the same bundling price range:
> 
> ...


I imagine this is what a game-eating chicken looks like:


----------



## countryboyhk

r31ya said:


> never bought anything from this site but apparently they have presale going on KZ EDA
> 
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-eda
> 
> ...



It looks like one cable included only ! I just don't know whether ( e.g. EDX Pro + EDS + CCA CSA bundling ) may be interesting !


----------



## r31ya

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> I imagine this is what a game-eating chicken looks like:


I see your game eating chicken, i raise you cemani all-black



--

Ah, too bad, its a great deal if its priced at $30 with three iem and three cable.
"here's the gift. between three of you, pick one that you like best"


----------



## saldsald

hmscott said:


> Awesome
> 
> I am now seeing the same bundling price range:
> 
> ...





hmscott said:


> Awesome
> 
> I am now seeing the same bundling price range:
> 
> ...


That is the nick of PUBG - Chicken Dinner.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

r31ya said:


> I see your game eating chicken, i raise you cemani all-black
> 
> --
> 
> ...


That's my favorite chicken, ahead of the bright white ones with the leg warmers and Rod Stewart hairdos.


----------



## Jansvast

So we've gone from more drivers = better to more iems = better?


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Jansvast said:


> So we've gone from more drivers = better to more iems = better?


Technically more IEMs implies more drivers, all else equal.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Technically more IEMs implies more drivers, all else equal.


Let's wait for the diy make your own IEM kit.

Complete with glue and different kinds of shells.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 2, 2022)

I'm imagining that the next evolution of IEM production for KZ could be to make IEM's in Orbit!  In Zero-G glue won't clog the pipes!  it will coat the places intended instead of glucking and clumping up all in one place!

SpaceX's phone number is listed and we all know Elon loves to shoot up rockets with fun payloads.  Come on KZ, time to "Go to Mars!"  Or, at least Earth Orbit!

Perhaps a KZ "factory in a space pod" payload can orbit the Earth, run the production cycles in Zero-G, and then land back on the Pad at Space-X to be packaged and boxed up - ready to ship from Hawthorn, CA!  Oh, right, Space City "Starbase" Texas!

The inevitable "Airless Drop Delivery from SpaceX" can come later


----------



## r31ya

Jansvast said:


> So we've gone from more drivers = better to more iems = better?


Since CRA, and slightly before it, KZ/CCA is experimenting with new drivers.
Magnetostat, new unnamed DD (in NRA or maybe in Magnetostat DD package), CRA superthin DD, and now this.

Per Crin, once they got some degree of "right" tuning, the only improvement to go is driver upgrade.


----------



## ExTubeGamer

KZ planar IEMs are gonna have three drivers stacked on top of each other.


----------



## RikudouGoku

hmscott said:


> Now I need to figure out how to set up an account and get shipping to the USA


if that is taobao, you need to use a proxy as most sellers dont ship outside china.


----------



## lushmelody

They are already selling EDA on Ali


----------



## hmscott (Apr 2, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> if that is taobao, you need to use a proxy as most sellers dont ship outside china.


Not taobao, and yes!, I was just looking... I set up an account on JD in 2020 only to discover they don't ship "overseas" to the USA... but, I may have a solution - more on that as it solidifies 


lushmelody said:


> They are already selling EDA on Ali


I'm not seeing anything on aliexpress.com... is there a different link into ali that I should be trying?

Also, I've heard that April 12th might be the date for more open availability, but for now the pre-order is only on certain venues - maybe only on JD?


----------



## RikudouGoku

hmscott said:


> Yes!, I was just looking... I set up an account in 2020 only to discover they don't ship "overseas" to the USA... but, I may have a solution - more on that as it solidifies


You need to use a proxy like CssBuy.


----------



## hmscott

RikudouGoku said:


> You need to use a proxy like CssBuy.


Aha, that is what I was looking for... an in country reshipper - we have those in the US for going the other direction into China, and I've used others for Australia as well.  Thank you for the heads up.


----------



## RikudouGoku

hmscott said:


> Aha, that is what I was looking for... an in country reshipper - we have those in the US for going the other direction into China, and I've used others for Australia as well.  Thank you for the heads up.


Keep in mind that the shipping price might make it more expensive to just buy a few products. Its better to use proxies if you buy big batches where there is a big price difference between taobao and aliexpress.


----------



## lushmelody

hmscott said:


> Not taobao, and yes!, I was just looking... I set up an account on JD in 2020 only to discover they don't ship "overseas" to the USA... but, I may have a solution - more on that as it solidifies
> 
> I'm not seeing anything on aliexpress.com... is there a different link into ali that I should be trying?
> 
> Also, I've heard that April 12th might be the date for more open availability, but for now the pre-order is only on certain venues - maybe only on JD?


KZ franchised store
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMnoYrG

GK official store
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mO8MuEE


----------



## hmscott (Apr 2, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> KZ franchised store
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMnoYrG
> 
> GK official store
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mO8MuEE


Awesome, thank you!  No bundles with price savings, but then again I can order separately each item directly for a little more.  


RikudouGoku said:


> Keep in mind that the shipping price might make it more expensive to just buy a few products. Its better to use proxies if you buy big batches where there is a big price difference between taobao and aliexpress.


Oops, Free delivery from them is May 4th/5th...to the US.  Apr 22 for US$31.58/US$36.84 more for shipping.

Either source, there is no rush for ordering, KZ has 100,000! units and GK has 50,000! units!


----------



## Tzennn

hmscott said:


> Awesome, thank you!  No bundles with price savings, but then again I can order separately each item directly for a little more.
> 
> Oops, Free delivery from them is May 4th/5th...to the US.  Apr 22 for US$31.58/US$36.84 more for shipping.
> 
> Either source, there is no rush for ordering, KZ has 100,000! units and GK has 50,000 units!


Wait that basically msrp price! Thought we having pre order sale right now?


----------



## hmscott (Apr 2, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> Wait that basically msrp price! Thought we having pre order sale right now?


Given the Free delivery dates start in May, that is well after the pre-order delivery, and past into the general release dates - if the April 12th release date I heard is correct.

They seem to be doing a pre-sale of the general release, with delayed delivery. 

There is no pre-order deposit for the AliExpress listings...so they aren't pre-orders, they are pre-sales with a delayed delivery till after the pre-orders ship.

On another point, is this EDA driver unique?  Has KZ released any previous single DD IEM's with this driver?



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004105366954.html


----------



## Star Love

Newbie here. Using Kz Zas. Is Kz Eda an upgrade bass wise?


----------



## 4ceratops

Star Love said:


> Newbie here. Using Kz Zas. Is Kz Eda an upgrade bass wise?


Premature question, no one has heard them.


----------



## Tzennn (Apr 2, 2022)

hmscott said:


> Given the Free delivery dates start in May, that is well after the pre-order delivery, and past into the general release dates - if the April 12th release date I heard is correct.
> 
> They seem to be doing a pre-sale of the general release, with delayed delivery.
> 
> ...


I believe this just a normal magnetic DD, kinda looks similar to the one on NRA (fast, ba like bass but not as organic and correct as xun DD)


----------



## hmscott (Apr 2, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> I believe this just a normal magnetic DD, kinda looks similar to the one on NRA (fast, ba like bass but not as organic and correct as xun DD)


It does look like a lot of the best current elements and thought went into the design and tuning abilities - each iteration using new thoughts about how to control the driver.

I am interested to hear all 3, and experience how the sound shaping electronics in the IEM's control the driver to promote the advertised differences.


----------



## Tzennn (Apr 3, 2022)

hmscott said:


> It does look like a lot of the best current elements and thought went into the design and tuning abilities - each iteration using new thoughts about how to control the driver.
> 
> I am interested to hear all 3, and experience how the sound shaping electronics in the IEM's control the driver to promote the advertised differences.


They all advertised the same thing lol ... "Strong bass, sweet mid, detail and extend treble"
From my experience, xun DD tend to do warmish/ analogue sound with correct timbre (which i like) but veil and trash detail. Thin diagram (bio-cel) usually produce natural sound (not neutral, sound real) which is boring (but good with instrument). Magnetic driver is good, it's cheap and it sounds really good, just not kz one tho


----------



## hmscott

Which single DD's do you enjoy?


----------



## Tzennn (Apr 3, 2022)

hmscott said:


> Which single DD's do you enjoy?


I would say magnetic DD is the best in term of performance, but it's not as musical as Xun so i enjoy xun DD more.


----------



## Carpet

alamnp said:


> different beast altogether
> 
> CCA CA16 with CP800 (ONLY WITH THIS TIP) has wide and tall sound stage that none can beat at the moment sub $100 IMO.
> T2+ is just a fun monitor with lots of bass and V shaped, similar to ZS10 Pro.
> ...



Thanks for that! I've been looking for tips that work well with the CCA CA16. The smaller nozzle has lost more tips than I care to think about. CP100 has worked best so far but I'll grab a set of the CP800 to try!


----------



## kalo86

What's the best successor of KZ ZAX?


----------



## Carpet (Apr 3, 2022)

kalo86 said:


> What's the best successor of KZ ZAX



Any single DD (which appears to include more KZs than I care to think about)! 

You could consider hybrids from other manufacturers who haven't been caught including BAs as ballast in their IEMs.



It also depends what you mean by successor.       Upgrade, recent release at the same price point or similar signature?


----------



## phower

kalo86 said:


> What's the best successor of KZ ZAX?


After buying around 40 IEMs, I have given up on IEMs. The best is over ear headphones😜 Our outer ear, ear canal length and width and the unique ridges inside of it are unique to us. All of it modifies the sound which our brain perceives as natural. 
If you bypass that by directly injecting sound into the ear canal, the sound you hear depends on how close your ear shape is to the dummy ears used during development of the IEM.

So IEMs are more for convenience during travel/ hot weather only. I have stopped looking for SQ in IEMs☹️


----------



## RikudouGoku

phower said:


> After buying around 40 IEMs, I have given up on IEMs. The best is over ear headphones😜 Our outer ear, ear canal length and width and the unique ridges inside of it are unique to us. All of it modifies the sound which our brain perceives as natural.
> If you bypass that by directly injecting sound into the ear canal, the sound you hear depends on how close your ear shape is to the dummy ears used during development of the IEM.
> 
> So IEMs are more for convenience during travel/ hot weather only. I have stopped looking for SQ in IEMs☹️


you are still affected by HRTF.


----------



## phower

RikudouGoku said:


> you are still affected by HRTF.


With IEMs? Nope. Any research to back that up?


----------



## countryboyhk

phower said:


> After buying around 40 IEMs, I have given up on IEMs. The best is over ear headphones😜 Our outer ear, ear canal length and width and the unique ridges inside of it are unique to us. All of it modifies the sound which our brain perceives as natural.
> If you bypass that by directly injecting sound into the ear canal, the sound you hear depends on how close your ear shape is to the dummy ears used during development of the IEM.
> 
> So IEMs are more for convenience during travel/ hot weather only. I have stopped looking for SQ in IEMs☹️



After buying 20+ iem, i give up counting how many I've got. Same as you wont count how many chothes you've bought. Chifi means fast fashion to me, sometimes functional, but most times simply because of the fancy outlooks.


----------



## RikudouGoku

phower said:


> With IEMs? Nope. Any research to back that up?


with everything...

https://3diosound.com/blogs/learn-about-sound/what-is-hrtf


----------



## phower

RikudouGoku said:


> with everything...
> 
> https://3diosound.com/blogs/learn-about-sound/what-is-hrtf


That is not published research. That is just a blog.


----------



## kalo86

Carpet said:


> Any single DD (which appears to include more KZs than I care to think about)!
> 
> You could consider hybrids from other manufacturers who haven't been caught including BAs as ballast in their IEMs.
> 
> ...


I think that KZ ZAX is already a well done product. Despite the fact that probably not all the BA drivers are really connected, the overall sound quality and richness of details is impressive for the cost of the ZAX. 
This is the main reason why I'm sometimes looking for a new gem in KZ production. 
The KZ ZES are very bad. I was very curious about the 12mm DD but the sound quality at the end is more than poor.
If you know a better product than ZAX, please recommend it, thank you!


----------



## RikudouGoku

phower said:


> That is not published research. That is just a blog.


https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/57349421/HRTF+measurements.pdf


----------



## phower

RikudouGoku said:


> https://backend.orbit.dtu.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/57349421/HRTF+measurements.pdf





> A head related transfer function is a function that describes how a signal is filtered by diffrac-
> tion, scattering and reflection of the head, pinna, and torso before it reaches the eardrum


If you read the paper that you referenced, it clearly states what HRTF stands for. 

With an IEM, the only component that is individually variable is the length/width of the ear canal left in front of the ear drum to transducer. This mainly affects the resonant frequency (varies anywhere from 2.5 to 3.2 kHz depending on individual ear canal length). The effects of the head, pinna, torso no longer applies. Even with an over-ear headphone, the effects of head, torso don't apply, but the pinna does apply and it has a major effect on the sound we perceive.


----------



## -rowan-

kalo86 said:


> The KZ ZES are very bad. I was very curious about the 12mm DD but the sound quality at the end is more than poor.


Curious to know how bad they are. Are you able to compare them with say, the ZEX and ZEX Pro? Or any other comparable KZ release?


----------



## kalo86

-rowan- said:


> Curious to know how bad they are. Are you able to compare them with say, the ZEX and ZEX Pro? Or any other comparable KZ release?


Unfortunately I don't have neither the ZEX and ZEX Pro.


----------



## countryboyhk

-rowan- said:


> Curious to know how bad they are. Are you able to compare them with say, the ZEX and ZEX Pro? Or any other comparable KZ release?


I have a ZEX, I like its very warm, smooth and up-front vocals, bass is heavy and bounce. I heard someone complained about its tunning is not really natural, sound stage is not extending enough, bass just liked hitting on a wall. 

ZEX is a kind of retro tunning not for everyone. Its not airy, high is not as shine as ZAX, separation is not good, bass is too heavy.  But its meaty vocals somehow make it more organic and fun. By changing to a single core copper cable, and use Sendearfit Light tips, I can get more "natural" soundstage, vocal positioning is better, and more controlled bass now. 

I have tried the ZES, its tuning is quite similar to ZEX, there is not much upgrade in SQ, and I skip it.


----------



## Barndoor (Apr 3, 2022)

Grabbed myself a DQ6s on Ali group buy for AU$24 (roughly US$18).
Also have offers on ZAS (AU$58/US$44) and CCA CA10 (AU$40/US$30). Are either of these worth grabbing?

Edit: To answer myself, probably not worthwhile additions for me on the ZAS and CCA CA10.


----------



## Carpet

-rowan- said:


> Curious to know how bad they are. Are you able to compare them with say, the ZEX and ZEX Pro? Or any other comparable KZ release?


Don't forget the CCA releases. They are sister company to KZ and seem to offer slightly better releases, warmer and less sibilant.

CCA CA16 is a great warm sounding Iem. The design is pretty plain if that matters to you . Still came with the old tangly KZ cable. 
    Vortex, Zpolt and BGGAR have all done comparison with KZ ZAX on YouTube.

CCA CRA is *very* good DD (no excuse not to try this one it given it's price). New flat cable is okay.

Zex pro (CRN) is nicely tuned but not particularly resolving, still okay if you don't want a 'V' tuning. New flat cable is okay.


Biggest pain of upgrading up from KZs is the QDC cables don't fit most other IEMs.


----------



## Nimweth

Carpet said:


> Don't forget the CCA releases. They are sister company to KZ and seem to offer slightly better releases, warmer and less sibilant.
> 
> CCA CA16 is a great warm sounding Iem. The design is pretty plain if that matters to you . Still came with the old tangly KZ cable.
> Vortex, Zpolt and BGGAR have all done comparison with KZ ZAX on YouTube.
> ...


CKX is also very good!


----------



## SartWaiting (Apr 4, 2022)

Carpet said:


> New flat cable is okay.


IMO, CRA has a terrible cable. It degrade SQ. Don't use it. Put something else right away....
But CRA really good IEM.


----------



## Jansvast

SartWaiting said:


> IMO, CRA has a terrible cable. It degrade SQ. Don't use it. Put something else right away....
> But CRA really good IEM.


Nothing wrong with the cable. It does not change SQ...


----------



## -rowan-

countryboyhk said:


> I have a ZEX, I like its very warm, smooth and up-front vocals, bass is heavy and bounce. I heard someone complained about its tunning is not really natural, sound stage is not extending enough, bass just liked hitting on a wall.
> 
> ZEX is a kind of retro tunning not for everyone. Its not airy, high is not as shine as ZAX, separation is not good, bass is too heavy.  But its meaty vocals somehow make it more organic and fun. By changing to a single core copper cable, and use Sendearfit Light tips, I can get more "natural" soundstage, vocal positioning is better, and more controlled bass now.
> 
> I have tried the ZES, its tuning is quite similar to ZEX, there is not much upgrade in SQ, and I skip it.



Spot on. This is why I found myself preferring the ZEX to the ZEX Pro despite its flaws. The Pro may graph better and tick a few more boxes but in doing so, it lost the musicality that made ZEX a little more special to me than the numerous other KZ releases.

Agree that changing tips and cable helps - even KZ’s own cheapie “upgrade” cables made an audible difference for me.

CRA is better technically than both ZEXes but there’s still something plasticky and off about its treble that I can’t shake.

Skipping the ZES then…


----------



## -rowan-

Carpet said:


> Biggest pain of upgrading up from KZs is the QDC cables don't fit most other IEMs.


Ha, I have the opposite problem in that my existing cables don’t fit the KZs. Not a fan of QDC connectors and don’t intend to get any other IEMs that use it, so I don’t bother picking up anything more than their own budget cables to go with their IEMs. Pleasantly surprised that they do help clean up the sound though.


----------



## Carpet

-rowan- said:


> Ha, I have the opposite problem in that my existing cables don’t fit the KZs. Not a fan of QDC connectors and don’t intend to get any other IEMs that use it, so I don’t bother picking up anything more than their own budget cables to go with their IEMs. Pleasantly surprised that they do help clean up the sound though.


I only ever bought one KZ upgrade cable. It failed within 2 months. Too many other better options, most are available with QDC connectors (KZ c-type). TRN, Jcally, FAAEAL, Tripowin, NiceHCK, XINHS etc....  I bought a couple of ivipQ cables in the 12th anniversary sale, looking forward to trying those out.

I agree that the new KZ flat cables aren't amazing, but they are usable. Much better than the tangly brown mess that came with the older models.


----------



## DynamicEars

Anyone know newer KZ TWS that using XUN driver? My KZ Z1 are at the corner of their lives. The left unit barely can be charged anymore. So Sad since the driver is really good, and after mod, beating most TWS out there (in terms of sound only, not tech side). I don't want to buy Z1 anymore since they are quite old by now (avoiding batt degraded problem even new unit), and prefer better specs and batt life. XUN is a must, additional drivers not a problem. Heard that KZ Z1 pro is no longer using XUN. Anyone can help?
Thanks in advance


----------



## BoomBap08

Hien80 said:


> Zex pro + Spinfit + Tacable 😋


Care to share how the Obsidian improved the ZP?


----------



## ChristianM (Apr 5, 2022)

Deleted....


----------



## Carpet (Apr 5, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> Anyone know newer KZ TWS that using XUN driver? My KZ Z1 are at the corner of their lives. The left unit barely can be charged anymore. So Sad since the driver is really good, and after mod, beating most TWS out there (in terms of sound only, not tech side). I don't want to buy Z1 anymore since they are quite old by now (avoiding batt degraded problem even new unit), and prefer better specs and batt life. XUN is a must, additional drivers not a problem. Heard that KZ Z1 pro is no longer using XUN. Anyone can help?
> Thanks in advance



The Moondrop Sparks look really promising. Have to like a TWS that lets you use your favorite tips without lifting the buds off the charging contacts in the case.


Whatever you get CHECK THE BLUETOOTH CODECS!

KZ in particular are all over the place with whether they support AAC or Aptx.  You want Aptx for android or AAC for apple. Stuff that up and you default to SBC which is the worst sound quality.

I use Edifier TWS1 pro. Very nice sound in it's price range. Really long battery life and volume touch controls.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> The Moondrop Sparks look really promising. Have to like a TWS that lets you use your favorite tips without lifting the buds off the charging contacts in the case.
> 
> 
> Whatever you get CHECK THE BLUETOOTH CODECS!
> ...


The pro or later kz tws usually use qc3040 which have aptx and better battery life. 

But considering mryiad of longetivity problem on kz early tws (battery charge went to crap in a year) , i still stay away from it despite its considered good sounding among tws


----------



## Rocket222

To have better battery life and avoid premature death of tws, you need to understand the characteristics of the rechargeable batteries.  Most rechargeable batteries prefer charging from empty to full and discharging from full to empty, the cycle repeats.  Sadly, most tws charging cases do not have a switch to turn off charging.  So every time you put back the tws earbuds into the case, the charging starts even the battery may be still half way full.  This would have detrimental effect to the life of the battery.  I got my first no-brand tws earbuds 2+ years ago and I only put them back into the case when the battery is all out, and they still work with about 70% capacity nowadays compared to what I first bought them.


----------



## phower

Carpet said:


> The Moondrop Sparks look really promising. Have to like a TWS that lets you use your favorite tips without lifting the buds off the charging contacts in the case.
> 
> 
> Whatever you get CHECK THE BLUETOOTH CODECS!
> ...


From the article posted below SBC at 328 kbps has very little difference with AptX that it can't be distinguished by most people in ABX testing.

Codec Df

Only AptX HD at around 529 kbps is better, but how many headphones support AptX HD?


----------



## -rowan-

Carpet said:


> I only ever bought one KZ upgrade cable. It failed within 2 months. Too many other better options, most are available with QDC connectors (KZ c-type). TRN, Jcally, FAAEAL, Tripowin, NiceHCK, XINHS etc....  I bought a couple of ivipQ cables in the 12th anniversary sale, looking forward to trying those out.
> 
> I agree that the new KZ flat cables aren't amazing, but they are usable. Much better than the tangly brown mess that came with the older models.



Those tangly brown cables! Yeah, they’re better now but I‘m at the point where I actually wish KZ would offer us the option of just buying the IEMs without cables. 

My chonky KZ cables are still doing ok after a few months (in fact I would even say they’re better now because they had this awful chemical smell when they were new but it has since dissipated) but I hope I didn’t just jinx them. I have a few XINHS and NiceHCK cables that are very good but even at those prices, they can cost several times more than some of these KZ IEMs so I wasn’t planning to re-buy them just for the QDC connectors… 

(Off topic but I wonder if ivipQ are somehow related to XINHS or if they’re another OEM… some of those cables look familiar.)


----------



## Carpet (Apr 5, 2022)

Carpet said:


> The Moondrop



Edifier TWS1 pro are good.  Nice sound, long battery life (12 hours plus 30  in the case). No smart assistant or phone app. They do have touch volume control which I find more more useful.

Just make sure you check BT codecs that your phone supports! You want Aptex, Aptex HD or LDAC for Android. For apple you need AAC.

 Moondrop Sparks are definitely worth a look. They will take normal eartips which most TWS won't fit properly in the case with. Zeos covered them in a group review on YouTube.


-rowan- said:


> Those tangly brown cables! Yeah, they’re better now but I‘m at the point where I actually wish KZ would offer us the option of just buying the IEMs without cables.
> 
> My chonky KZ cables are still doing ok after a few months (in fact I would even say they’re better now because they had this awful chemical smell when they were new but it has since dissipated) but I hope I didn’t just jinx them. I have a few XINHS and NiceHCK cables that are very good but even at those prices, they can cost several times more than some of these KZ IEMs so I wasn’t planning to re-buy them just for the QDC connectors…
> 
> (Off topic but I wonder if ivipQ are somehow related to XINHS or if they’re another OEM… some of those cables look familiar.)



I've got XINHS and ivipQ cables coming from the 12th anniversary sale. Pricing was similar. I'll be able to compare them soon.

Reviews on Aliexpress said the ivipQ cables came with a case, although that wasn't mentioned in the product descriptions.


----------



## -rowan-

Carpet said:


> Edifier TWS1 pro are good.  Nice sound, long battery life (12 hours plus 30  in the case). No smart assistant or phone app. They do have touch volume control which I find more more useful.



Tempted to try it, partly because of the Stax connection… currently using the Haylou GT1 Plus, which sounds quite balanced and natural to me. The GT6 and QCY T13 are great too, but they’ve gone to the aged parents (which only shows how stable and easy to use they are). Also have a bunch of older QCY TWS buds which are practically indestructible. The reason why I mention this in a KZ thread, btw, is that I prefer all of these to the KZ offerings for inexpensive, dispensable on-the-go listening, at least where more even-handed tuning and better technicalities are concerned 



Carpet said:


> I've got XINHS and ivipQ cables coming from the 12th anniversary sale. Pricing was similar. I'll be able to compare them soon.
> 
> Reviews on Aliexpress said the ivipQ cables came with a case, although that wasn't mentioned in the product descriptions.



The XINHS cables are all shipped in cases (although if you order multiple cables, they usually pack 2 in a case) so the ivipQ ones might be similar.


----------



## seanwee

phower said:


> After buying around 40 IEMs, I have given up on IEMs. The best is over ear headphones😜 Our outer ear, ear canal length and width and the unique ridges inside of it are unique to us. All of it modifies the sound which our brain perceives as natural.
> If you bypass that by directly injecting sound into the ear canal, the sound you hear depends on how close your ear shape is to the dummy ears used during development of the IEM.
> 
> So IEMs are more for convenience during travel/ hot weather only. I have stopped looking for SQ in IEMs☹️


Coversely I've stopped looking for SQ upgrades in headphones. Too expensive for minimal returns.


SartWaiting said:


> IMO, CRA has a terrible cable. It degrade SQ. Don't use it. Put something else right away....
> But CRA really good IEM.


I used a much better cable on it and the difference is negligible. It doesn't scale with better cables.


Jansvast said:


> Nothing wrong with the cable. It does not change SQ...


Precisely.


-rowan- said:


> CRA is better technically than both ZEXes but there’s still something plasticky and off about its treble that I can’t shake.


Its due to the 4.5khz peak. You can get rid of it with the nozzle mod (linked in my sig) and it will sound a lot better.


----------



## Tzennn

seanwee said:


> Its due to the *4.5khz peak*. You can get rid of it with the nozzle mod (linked in my sig) and it will sound a lot better.


12khz to be precise


----------



## akg fanboy

Rocket222 said:


> To have better battery life and avoid premature death of tws, you need to understand the characteristics of the rechargeable batteries.  Most rechargeable batteries prefer charging from empty to full and discharging from full to empty, the cycle repeats.  Sadly, most tws charging cases do not have a switch to turn off charging.  So every time you put back the tws earbuds into the case, the charging starts even the battery may be still half way full.  This would have detrimental effect to the life of the battery.  I got my first no-brand tws earbuds 2+ years ago and I only put them back into the case when the battery is all out, and they still work with about 70% capacity nowadays compared to what I first bought them.


That is flat out *misinformation*. It's well known that rechargeable batteries do NOT like to be charged to 100% nor fully discharged, this goes for both lithium ion (most common) and polymer. It's well known for optimal battery health from ranging from EVs to smartphones. Modern batteries can handle going to 0% charging to full, but keeping it above 20% and stopping at ~80% is ideal for maximizing battery health. Manufacturers always suggest ranges like this

link 1
link 2


----------



## Jansvast

akg fanboy said:


> That is flat out *misinformation*. It's well known that rechargeable batteries do NOT like to be charged to 100% nor fully discharged, this goes for both lithium ion (most common) and polymer. It's well known for optimal battery health from ranging from EVs to smartphones. Modern batteries can handle going to 0% charging to full, but keeping it above 20% and stopping at ~80% is ideal for maximizing battery health. Manufacturers always suggest ranges like this
> 
> link 1
> link 2


It's still heaps better than leaving them in the case to cycle indefinitely


----------



## akg fanboy (Apr 7, 2022)

Jansvast said:


> It's still heaps better than leaving them in the case to cycle indefinitely


his concern was that the charging started before the battery reached 0%, as he claimed a full discharge and a full charge are "best" for battery health.

I don't get what you mean by better when I stated stopping at 80% would be the best case scenario to preserve battery health


----------



## Jansvast

akg fanboy said:


> his concern was that the charging started before the battery reached 0%, as he claimed a full discharge and a full charge are "best" for battery health.
> 
> I don't get what you mean by better when I stated stopping at 80% would be the best case scenario to preserve battery health


You're right. LiPo and LiIon batts don't like getting fully discharged. I think he's coming from NiMH batteries, for which a 100-0-100 cycle is beneficial.


----------



## nicksson (Apr 7, 2022)

Nimweth said:


> The AS12 continues to impress. One of the best out of the box experiences I have had.


I can confirm, the *KZ AS12 is a real gem*, although had no much hype.
At 35 USD is a steal for it's quality of sound!!! All the BA-s seems functional, with no glued soundways.


----------



## Nimweth

Ye


nicksson said:


> I can confirm, the *KZ AS12 is a real gem*, altought had no much hype.
> At 35 USD is a steal for it's quality of sound!!! All the BA-s seems functional, with no glued soundways.


Yes, it's strange how few impressions there are, even though the AS12 has been around for a while. It challenges the BA10 for my favourite all BA IEM.


----------



## rayliam80

I ordered the AS12 and ASF from the recent Ali sale. I never got any of the all-BA KZ models. Just curious to see how they stack up now. I guess these recent purchases are in-line with my mood of underrated nostalgia (AS12), in KZ terms, since I also recently acquired the CA Jupiter, also considered underrated by some.


----------



## nraymond

Nimweth said:


> Ye
> 
> Yes, it's strange how few impressions there are, even though the AS12 has been around for a while. It challenges the BA10 for my favourite all BA IEM.


I originally skipped the AS12 because I had ordered the AS16 right when it came out, but that got lost in the mail and then the reviews came out for the AS16 and weren't very positive, and I think I always figured the AS12 was in the same boat. A couple of years ago I picked up the BA10 and it impressed me, and have noticed the fairly recent positive talk of the AS12 so I ordered one, and it just came in yesterday. It's a bit early for me to say for sure, but I think I might like the AS12 better than the BA10.


----------



## Nimweth

nraymond said:


> I originally skipped the AS12 because I had ordered the AS16 right when it came out, but that got lost in the mail and then the reviews came out for the AS16 and weren't very positive, and I think I always figured the AS12 was in the same boat. A couple of years ago I picked up the BA10 and it impressed me, and have noticed the fairly recent positive talk of the AS12 so I ordered one, and it just came in yesterday. It's a bit early for me to say for sure, but I think I might like the AS12 better than the BA10.


Yes,  I'm beginning to think that as well. The mids are not as recessed and the treble has a bit more definition and sparkle. The BA10 bass is special but the AS12 is not far behind.


----------



## hmscott (Apr 7, 2022)

nraymond said:


> I originally skipped the AS12 because I had ordered the AS16 right when it came out, but that got lost in the mail and then the reviews came out for the AS16 and weren't very positive, and I think I always figured the AS12 was in the same boat. A couple of years ago I picked up the BA10 and it impressed me, and have noticed the fairly recent positive talk of the AS12 so I ordered one, and it just came in yesterday. It's a bit early for me to say for sure, but I think I might like the AS12 better than the BA10.


Initially I was one of those that didn't enjoy the AS16 - mostly due to the huge size - it wasn't painful or uncomfortable, just weirdly "full" - stretching my inner parts more than any other IEM - but since then I've found others as large...

The sound also improved after weeks of "burn-in" on a separate amp so I didn't need to listen to it while it was aging.

Now I enjoy it from time to time, so perhaps you might want to also try the KZ AS16 for nostalgia's sake 

Wow!, huge price drop, at least at Hifigo... maybe I will get another one 

Save $128.41
Original price $208.40
Current price $79.99
SKU H000293

KZ AS16 16BA Balanced Armature Units HIFI Bass In Ear Monitor Earphones
https://hifigo.com/products/kz-as16-16ba-balanced-armature-units-hifi-bass-in-ear-monitor-earphones

Also, added an FYI Alert on the Deals thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post.692119/post-16903628

Update: cheaper prices found on AliExpress:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-16903677


----------



## 4ceratops (Apr 7, 2022)

hmscott said:


> Initially I was one of those that didn't enjoy the AS16 - mostly due to the huge size - it wasn't painful or uncomfortable, just weirdly "full" - stretching my inner parts more than any other IEM - but since then I've found others as large...
> 
> The sound also improved after weeks of "burn-in" on a separate amp so I didn't need to listen to it while it was aging.
> 
> ...


I'm laughing out loud! AS16 never cost $200! You can get them for 56€ on Ali right now.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...8005aa121481a3dffd13dab71931d966af7e1d&gclid=


----------



## Nimweth

Yo


4ceratops said:


> I'm laughing out loud! AS16 never cost $200! You can get them for 56€ on Ali right now.
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...8005aa121481a3dffd13dab71931d966af7e1d&gclid=


You can do better than that, $48 at Luck LZ store,  Ali Express!  Sorry, having trouble with the link.


----------



## 4ceratops

Nimweth said:


> Yo
> 
> You can do better than that, $48 at Luck LZ store,  Ali Express!  Sorry, having trouble with the link.


And with a bit of luck, they might have at least 3 BAs working in them🤣


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Yo
> 
> You can do better than that, $48 at Luck LZ store,  Ali Express!  Sorry, having trouble with the link.


My best deal was $80 for 2 pairs.
AS16 are my favourite of all old KZ all-BAs - I love its accentuated treble for classical, second by C16 (not CA) with their thick mids, while AS12 have the best BA bass for me.


----------



## mneitzel

-rowan- said:


> Spot on. This is why I found myself preferring the ZEX to the ZEX Pro despite its flaws. The Pro may graph better and tick a few more boxes but in doing so, it lost the musicality that made ZEX a little more special to me than the numerous other KZ releases.
> 
> Agree that changing tips and cable helps - even KZ’s own cheapie “upgrade” cables made an audible difference for me.
> 
> ...


here I thought I was the only one that thought that.  yeah the Pro lost something


----------



## hmscott (Apr 8, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> I'm laughing out loud! AS16 never cost $200! You can get them for 56€ on Ali right now.
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...8005aa121481a3dffd13dab71931d966af7e1d&gclid=


Yup, IDK where Hifigo used to get some of their wonky list prices from. 

Hifigo specializes in breaking news and releasing new technology to their customers super quick, and I think sometimes Hifigo may have a price estimate on the pre-order and then are so busy they don't go back to edit in the correct MSRP.

I haven't seen Hifigo overestimate the MSRP for a long time, and that listing may be a hold over Wonky "List" price from back when the IEM was released in May 2019(?)

And, sorry about not checking AliExpress too, it was such a low price in comparison to what I paid back in June 2020 => $115, I thought the $79.99 price on Hifigo.com must be the lowest price after checking on Amazon and Linsoul.

On Amazon the AS16 is selling for $109-$136, and for $129 on Linsoul, as I posted in the deals thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post.692119/post-16903628

Thanks for the heads up on a lower price, and also the first time I've seen that store before "AliExpress KZ Promo Discount Store", I've "Followed" it, here is the non-mobile link:

KZ AS16 16BA Balanced Armature Units Earphones HIFI Bass In Ear Monitor Earphones Noise Cancelling Earbuds Headset KZ ZAX ZSX
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001363967679.html

The KZ store I usually go to AliExpress KZ Global Store also has the same pricing:

KZ AS16 16BA Balanced Armature Earphones HIFI In Ear Monitor Music Earphones Noise Cancelling Earbuds Headset KZ ZAX ZSX ASX ASF
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002266339357.html

Have you checked on the native Chinese sites like JD.com?  The KZ AS16 might be even lower priced there, unfortunately they won't ship to the USA. 
https://item.jd.com/47040210175.html

If I got the translation/currency correct, lowest price is ￥ 358.00 or $56.25... I thought it would be less than US facing AliExpress?


4ceratops said:


> And with a bit of luck, they might have at least 3 BAs working in them🤣


BTW, this constantly repeating the same derogatory speculation about *all* KZ IEM's is getting really old, and it's completely unnecessarily clogging up the thread.
Please give it a rest.


----------



## Carpet

CCA CA16 is also worth a look.

The design has 2 types of BA (3 x 30095 and 4 x 50024) arranged firing into a common sound chamber with the DD. Balancing the BAs by number included should work with a simpler crossover. Also avoids having a HF BA in the nozzle. Overall a warm smooth sound that doesn't sacrifice detail or sound stage. Not my first pick for critical listening but non-fatiguing for long periods.

Large shells might be a problem for some.

Also not the prettiest shells, they look more like a $20 iem
(less attractive to thieves and raise less "How much did that cost?" questions from significant others).


----------



## G777

I've been modding my AS12. The latest iteration (orange) approaches Aria's tuning, however I feel I may have dampened it too much and neutered some of its technicalities.


----------



## Jansvast

G777 said:


> I've been modding my AS12. The latest iteration (orange) approaches Aria's tuning, however I feel I may have dampened it too much and neutered some of its technicalities.


That looks dope!


----------



## Aparker2005

Very tempted to order these EDAs. I definitely don't need any new iems, but 3 sets in one package seems cool


----------



## phower

G777 said:


> I've been modding my AS12. The latest iteration (orange) approaches Aria's tuning, however I feel I may have dampened it too much and neutered some of its technicalities.


Why not just use a PEQ?


----------



## G777

phower said:


> Why not just use a PEQ?


Modding it means it will sound the way I want regardless are which source I'm using. My iPad and phone don't have PEQ.


----------



## Tzennn

hmscott said:


> Yup, IDK where Hifigo used to get some of their wonky list prices from.
> 
> Hifigo specializes in breaking news and releasing new technology to their customers super quick, and I think sometimes Hifigo may have a price estimate on the pre-order and then are so busy they don't go back to edit in the correct MSRP.
> 
> ...


Well it can go lower than that if you're close to china tho  i bought CRA for 7$ ...


----------



## alamnp

G777 said:


> Modding it means it will sound the way I want regardless are which source I'm using. My iPad and phone don't have PEQ.


Get Qudelix 5K


----------



## phower

G777 said:


> Modding it means it will sound the way I want regardless are which source I'm using. My iPad and phone don't have PEQ.


The music players from TEAC/Onkyo have graphic PEQ. Very easy to use.

Yes. The source issue remains, but I have started using just the smartphone as it is very convenient to carry all music in a single MicroSD card.


----------



## Carpet

phower said:


> The music players from TEAC/Onkyo have graphic PEQ. Very easy to use.
> 
> Yes. The source issue remains, but I have started using just the smartphone as it is very convenient to carry all music in a single MicroSD card.


Same reason I'm sticking with 3.5mm jack. I don't need extra power from balanced and I can use more sources including phone.


----------



## Jansvast (Apr 10, 2022)

Hi guys, I'd like to share with you how I made my wooden faceplate CRA. After retuning it, I needed to make it usable again, so I decided to try making a stabilised wood faceplate.






Work began with removing the original one it seems impossible to remove without destroying it, so I had to carefully chop it off where it meets the shell with a box cutter. Pry and slice on the seam and eventually it'll come off. There is a lip which helps hold it on from the inside, so I used flush cutters to trim it flat with the test of the shell, then sanded it lightly with 240 grit, not to make too much dust.





After that, I was ready to prepare the faceplate blanks. Find some wood with a pattern you like and cut a veneer from it, approximately 1mm thick. I used epoxy to stabilise the veneers. I just dipped them in the mixed epoxy and put them 3 times through my ghetto vacuum chamber just bathing in a cup of epoxy, to draw the air out of the wood and let the resin soak in. This step might not be necessary. Make sure the wood is bone dry beforehand! I made a little dam out of hot glue big enough to accomodate the wood pieces to cure the epoxy in. Place them in diagonally, pushing out as much air from underneath as possible. Top the whole thing off to a thickness of about 2mm. Make sure all the wood is covered. It will float to the top, so the bottom side will have a thicker epoxy layer, which is important for making the connector fit!





Then it was time make the actual faceplates. I began by tracing a rough outline on the cured blank and roughly cut it out with the flush cutters. To make them sit flush, I had to dremel out a small pocket where the connector is located (on the thicker side of the blank, so the wood stays intact) . When that was done, I held the rough faceplates against the iems and used a thin marker to trace the exact shape of the shells onto each faceplate. Then take a file and file until the line is still visible and finish it with rolled up sandpaper (120 then 240) until the line is completely gone. Keep chceking the fit, and once the line disappears it should fit perfectly. It is important that you make the faceplates slightly smaller than the shells, give them a little less than 0.5mm all round. This will be needed for the final sanding.

Sand the bottom side and tack it in place with a tiny bit of CA so it stays on when applying the top coat. Once attached, you can shape it a little bit, make radiuses all around, smoothen it and sand the top with 240. Always degrease with alcohol before applying adhesive!









Now it's time to seal it! I used the same UV resistant laminating epoxy as before. First, mask the rest of the iem with tape as close to the seam as you can. Apply a thin coat and make sure to get the resin to seep into the gap for a strong bond while the resin is still thin. Then, I warmed the rest of the resin up in a water bath to accelerate the cure rate and once it was very thick, almost hard to scoop with a paintbrush, I put it on thicker. Pay special attention to the corners, because as the resin flows down, they tend to get exposed. You could fill the resin with silica to increase viscosity, but I forgot to do that...





You're on the home straight now! After a full cure, it's time to clean it up. To speed up the sanding of the seam, you can use a scalpel or a box cutter again and gently scrape back the excess resin off the shell. Then, I used 1000 grit wet sandpaper and started snading until there was no physical seam on the iem. Here's where making the faceplate smaller than the shell comes to play. It allows a thicker layer of epoxy to be formed over the wood, so it's harder to break through to the wood while sanding! This was a long and tiring process but in the end was all worth it for the perfect seamless look, like on expensive iems. You can then give the shell a frosted finish or buff it back to a shine like the faceplate.





And viola! After hours of work you have a beautiful, wooden CRA. Should you do it? I have no idea. Was it worth it? ABSOLUTELY  Get a nice cable and you have a gem.

I hope some of you may find this fun or even useful. Mind you, this is how I did it and it was my first attempt. If you try yourself, feel free to change anything you want on it.

Have fun, I'm gonna go enjoy my special CRA now!


----------



## 4ceratops (Apr 10, 2022)

Jansvast said:


> Hi guys, I'd like to share with you how I made my wooden faceplate CRA. After retuning it, I needed to make it usable again, so I decided to try making a stabilised wood faceplate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congratulations, you are extremely skilled and your creation is a great design improvement.
(A ako som sa presvedčil po nazretí do tvojho profilu, mohol som ti k tvojmu dizajnérskemu kúsku pogratulovať aj v slovenčine🥳)


----------



## DynamicEars

Jansvast said:


> Hi guys, I'd like to share with you how I made my wooden faceplate CRA. After retuning it, I needed to make it usable again, so I decided to try making a stabilised wood faceplate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is the name of this $199 beautiful shell single DD with beautiful tuning IEM again? Sorry i forgot


----------



## Taila

DynamicEars said:


> What is the name of this $199 beautiful shell single DD with beautiful tuning IEM again? Sorry i forgot


I fully agree with you, we have a right to know what is this brand new product, $200 sounds about right..


----------



## Jansvast

Taila said:


> I fully agree with you, we have a right to know what is this brand new product, $200 sounds about right..


I like that attitude!


----------



## yaps66

Jansvast said:


> Hi guys, I'd like to share with you how I made my wooden faceplate CRA. After retuning it, I needed to make it usable again, so I decided to try making a stabilised wood faceplate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful and well done! Your "wood edition" really deserves all the love and attention it is receiving! Agree with @DynamicEars and @Taila that it is worth circa US$200!


----------



## moisespr123

My impressions on the KZ DQ6S and KZ ZES below.


KZ x HBB DQ6S Review
KZ ZES Unboxing and First Impressions
Previous reviews on post #58,218


----------



## myromeo

So @crinacle has launched a new equaliser feature on his graph database and I have to say it’s really cool! 

it’s possible to get the ZEX Pro stupidly close to the IEF target. I’ve added a little gain in the bass region 105Hz and lower as well as a little boost in the upper mids at 2500Hz. 

The guys on the KZ discord have generated a number of different EQ’s for the ZEX Pro and it seems to respond really well. 

Have a listen to my EQ, would love to know what you think. Then go play for yourself. If anything it serves as a really good tool for understanding Q factors, gain and how they interact. 





Preamp: -1.7 dB

Filter 1: Low shelf 105 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 0.700
Filter 2: Peak 1000 Hz Gain 0.5 dB Q 0.500
Filter 3: Peak 2500 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 1.000
Filter 4: Peak 6200 Hz Gain 2.1 dB Q 2.000
Filter 5: Peak 8200 Hz Gain -11.1 dB Q 2.000
Filter 6: Peak 11000 Hz Gain 3.8 dB Q 2.000
Filter 7: Peak 11000 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 1.200
Filter 8: Peak 12000 Hz Gain 12.0 dB Q 1.800


----------



## Podster (Apr 13, 2022)

Jansvast said:


> Hi guys, I'd like to share with you how I made my wooden faceplate CRA. After retuning it, I needed to make it usable again, so I decided to try making a stabilised wood faceplate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice work Jans, had no idea you had this talent! Got me wondering if the ZST's might have this destiny? Keep me posted once they arrive.

So my question of the day to all the KZ Fan/Fan Boys here is, were these KZ's final iteration of the ZS4's?


----------



## Jansvast

Podster said:


> Very nice work Jans, had no idea you had this talent! Got me wondering if the ZST's might have this destiny? Keep me posted once they arrive.


It might very well be (I hope you're not mad), depends on what I think of them! I would try something different than wood tho, I guess we'll see.

Im glad you like the mod!


----------



## Podster

Jansvast said:


> It might very well be (I hope you're not mad), depends on what I think of them! I would try something different than wood tho, I guess we'll see.
> 
> Im glad you like the mod!


Not at all, they are (or hopefully will be soon) yours! 

So this here is pre-wireless days and an early rig which I'll never get rid of! The Shuffle through the BW AP001 had amazing synergy for jacking up a headphone out Not to mention the pair that really hooked me on KZ and their bang for your buck attitude


----------



## 1clearhead

Jansvast said:


> Hi guys, I'd like to share with you how I made my wooden faceplate CRA. After retuning it, I needed to make it usable again, so I decided to try making a stabilised wood faceplate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice!...Awesome job! 
Cheers! 

-Clear


----------



## independent

Hi everyone. I bought a pair of AS12 and they arrived today along with an AZ09 pro. Having owned several sets of KZ over the years and multiple copies of ZS7 I was looking forward to them. My favourite pair are the ASX and have to say the AS12 is not the same as the ZS7 or the ASX. It is pretty close though. Great for the price. A smidgin more treble energy in the AS12. A touch less detail maybe. Better comfort than the ASX. The frequency response of the ASX is perfect for me and was about equal to the ZS7. There was overall less detail in the ZS7s to the ASX when I had both pairs (ZS7s died).

I listen to bass music, electronica at low levels.

But, loving the AZ09 pros! Yes there's hiss, but the liberation from cables is something else.


----------



## Nimweth

ZS7 are still my favourite KZ hybrid. AS12 are really good, very close to the BA10 but, as you say, have a little more treble energy.


----------



## Podster (Apr 14, 2022)

independent said:


> Hi everyone. I bought a pair of AS12 and they arrived today along with an AZ09 pro. Having owned several sets of KZ over the years and multiple copies of ZS7 I was looking forward to them. My favourite pair are the ASX and have to say the AS12 is not the same as the ZS7 or the ASX. It is pretty close though. Great for the price. A smidgin more treble energy in the AS12. A touch less detail maybe. Better comfort than the ASX. The frequency response of the ASX is perfect for me and was about equal to the ZS7. There was overall less detail in the ZS7s to the ASX when I had both pairs (ZS7s died).
> 
> I listen to bass music, electronica at low levels.
> 
> But, loving the AZ09 pros! Yes there's hiss, but the liberation from cables is something else.


Good ear on those and something those looking to get any of them have a good idea with the amount of info you provided, makes me want to throw a pair of ASX and AZ09's in a cart again but I just have way too many iem's!

Still working with most of these (actually the 3 front pairs on the right have been gifted away) to very happy recipients   Well still waiting on ZST report but I have a feeling it will be positive


----------



## phower

Podster said:


> Good ear on those and something those looking to get any of them have a good idea with the amount of info you provided, makes me want to through a pair of ASX and AZ09's in a cart again but I just have way too many iem's!
> 
> Still working with most of these (actually the 3 front pairs on the right have been gifted away) to very happy recipients   Well still waiting on ZST report but I have a feeling it will be positive


The ED9 in the back is the best KZ I have owned and it is actually undervalued. Brass enclosure with replaceable nozzles for $10. I think Panasonic or JVC was selling a similar model for $180 something.


----------



## Podster (Apr 14, 2022)

phower said:


> The ED9 in the back is the best KZ I have owned and it is actually undervalued. Brass enclosure with replaceable nozzles for $10. I think Panasonic or JVC was selling a similar model for $180 something.


No argument from me, those very facts hooked me for sure. It did amaze me just how different the bronze filter was/is from the shiny gold one 

This was my second replacement, first pair bone head left them in his pocket and fair one washed the sound right out of them and the next pair got stolen






And of course I had to have that sexy black pair too





& still the best sub $9 iem I've ever listened too I also share @Nimweth 's post on the ZS7 & BA10's, extraordinary iem's for their meager prices


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> No argument from me, those very facts hooked me for sure. It did amaze me just how different the bronze filter was/is from the shiny gold one
> 
> This was my second replacement, first pair bone head left them in his pocket and fair one washed the sound right out of them and the next pair got stolen
> 
> ...


Yes, the ED9 is great, especially with the bronze filter.


----------



## MacAttack7

Where can I get the exact tips that come with the KZ ASX, AST & CCA CS16?
Those super flimsy short white ones.
I want the exact same dimensions, but something firmer. 
I tried my SpinFit wireless tips which are quite short, but even they are too long (the stem). The CS16 only fits me well with the very short tips that come with it.


----------



## independent

Podster said:


> Good ear on those and something those looking to get any of them have a good idea with the amount of info you provided, makes me want to throw a pair of ASX and AZ09's in a cart again but I just have way too many iem's!
> 
> Still working with most of these (actually the 3 front pairs on the right have been gifted away) to very happy recipients   Well still waiting on ZST report but I have a feeling it will be positive


Thanks! It's the AZ09 pro I have, the AZ09 doesn't have the AptX or ApX-HD I think. AZ09 doesn't have the Qualcomm chip for the codec. AZ09 pro is also almost twice the price but comes right down at sale time


----------



## independent

Nimweth said:


> ZS7 are still my favourite KZ hybrid. AS12 are really good, very close to the BA10 but, as you say, have a little more treble energy.


Yeah, I'm not unhappy. Its a good one alright. Not ZS6 siblint or close. They will live on my AZ09 pros for out and about and around the place and the ASX will live on my Sabre DAC at my workstation. So, thanks again for the recommendation.


----------



## rayliam80

MacAttack7 said:


> Where can I get the exact tips that come with the KZ ASX, AST & CCA CS16?
> Those super flimsy short white ones.
> I want the exact same dimensions, but something firmer.
> I tried my SpinFit wireless tips which are quite short, but even they are too long (the stem). The CS16 only fits me well with the very short tips that come with it.


 Try the Azla SednaEarfit Short. Either regular or light.


----------



## MacAttack7

rayliam80 said:


> Try the Azla SednaEarfit Short. Either regular or light.


I may give those a try....looking for a generic version first. Cheapskate. 
Those are pricey and I often need to use two different sizes.


----------



## Carpet

MacAttack7 said:


> Where can I get the exact tips that come with the KZ ASX, AST & CCA CS16?
> Those super flimsy short white ones.
> I want the exact same dimensions, but something firmer.
> I tried my SpinFit wireless tips which are quite short, but even they are too long (the stem). The CS16 only fits me well with the very short tips that come with it.



You could flip the front of the tip  up and cut a slice off the back of the stem. Same process as making spacer to extend tips on BLON BL-03.

I wouldn't try this on SpinFits as they have a long stem to start with (and more expensive if you screw up).


----------



## MacAttack7

Carpet said:


> You could flip the front of the tip  up and cut a slice off the back of the stem. Same process as making spacer to extend tips on BLON BL-03.
> 
> I wouldn't try this on SpinFits as they have a long stem to start with (and more expensive if you screw up).


Now you tell me....already tried it on the SpinFits months ago...bad idea. 
Maybe I'll give it another try with some cheaper ones I have laying around.


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 17, 2022)

So far, the *KZ EDA* are going to be a hit in the budget sector! THEY ARE CRAZY GOOD! I'm not kidding! If many think KZ is down for the count, think again! All 3 of these IEM's are really, and I mean REALLY GOOD! I've been listening to them for 4 days now, and I can't wrap my head around the solid tuning and experience I've just encountered with all 3 of them. It will be a pity not to grab these now why you can at their rock bottom low price. I will give a quick impression on the EDA later in the week!
Enjoy my PIC's...


PS. They're so cheap right now I bought 2! 

-Clear


----------



## Star Love

1clearhead said:


> So far, the *KZ EDA* are going to be a hit in the budget sector! THEY ARE CRAZY GOOD! I'm not kidding! If many think KZ is down for the count, think again! All 3 of these IEM's are really, and I mean REALLY GOOD! I've been listening to them for 4 days now, and I can't wrap my head around the solid tuning and experience I've just encountered with all 3 of them. It will be a pity not to grab these now why you can at their rock bottom low price. I will give a quick impression on the EDA later in the week!
> Enjoy my PIC's...
> 
> 
> ...


Anyidea if it is better than kz zas?


----------



## 1clearhead

Star Love said:


> Anyidea if it is better than kz zas?


Unfortunately, I don't have the KZ ZAS. But, all I can say is that they are TUNED TO COMPETE!


----------



## phower

1clearhead said:


> So far, the *KZ EDA* are going to be a hit in the budget sector! THEY ARE CRAZY GOOD! I'm not kidding! If many think KZ is down for the count, think again! All 3 of these IEM's are really, and I mean REALLY GOOD! I've been listening to them for 4 days now, and I can't wrap my head around the solid tuning and experience I've just encountered with all 3 of them. It will be a pity not to grab these now why you can at their rock bottom low price. I will give a quick impression on the EDA later in the week!
> Enjoy my PIC's...
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know. From the FR graph that is on AE, about 10dB rise from 1 kHz to 2 kHz sounds harsh.
That should be about 5dB only.


----------



## 1clearhead

phower said:


> I don't know. From the FR graph that is on AE, about 10dB rise from 1 kHz to 2 kHz sounds harsh.
> That should be about 5dB only.


I thought so too! But, to my surprise, that's not the case at all. I don't know who makes these graphs at KZ, but they don't sound nothing like the graph shows on their page. The only one that expresses some harshness, and understandably acceptable are the cyan/high resolution version. While the clear/balanced version and gold/heavy bass version are stellar good, IMHO!

-Clear


----------



## XerusKun (Apr 18, 2022)

phower said:


> I don't know. From the FR graph that is on AE, about 10dB rise from 1 kHz to 2 kHz sounds harsh.
> That should be about 5dB only.


Here are the graphs with fixed ratio, the graphs below are their official graphs from their advertisement photos just with scale and ratio fixed. This is still not accurate, expect more peaks at the treble region. The trend of the FR will somehow be same-ish as most reviewers graph since KZ is also using an IEC 711. It's just different because KZ is using a different graphing tool with different settings. But as always its still better if some reviewer can provide their graphs.. 🙂











Here's some proof that we can somehow conclude something with those advertisement graphs


----------



## r31ya

XerusKun said:


> Here's the graphs with fixed ratio, the graphs below are their official graphs from their advertisement photos just with scale and ratio fixed. This is still not accurate, expect more peaks at the treble region. The trend of the FR may be same-ish like most reviewers graph since KZ is also using an IEC 711, it's just that KZ is using a different graphing tool with different settings. But as always its still better if some reviewer can provide their graphs.. 🙂
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The balanced one seems interesting. The Hi-Fi is the brighter one(?), not sure my ear could tolerate that.
The bass seems have significant bleed that might be a boon for male vocals but...


----------



## Podster

phower said:


> I don't know. From the FR graph that is on AE, about 10dB rise from 1 kHz to 2 kHz sounds harsh.
> That should be about 5dB only.


Graphs don't always translate to what one hears but of course we all hear them differently, came upon this shot of some of my old school KZ's however most are gone except the ED9's and DT5's!


----------



## paulwasabii

First try at measuring with the included clear starlines.


----------



## r31ya

paulwasabii said:


> First try at measuring with the included clear starlines.


The EDA Bass also have bright treble to offset the big bass setting?
interesting experiment, the Balanced one seems the one i'm going for.


----------



## Podster

r31ya said:


> The EDA Bass also have bright treble to offset the big bass setting?
> interesting experiment, the Balanced one seems the one i'm going for.


The trick is getting that to mesh vs. fight for balance  I think so many parameters exist and depending on hardware and shell design to include material its a fine line tuning to get it just right. That's my story and I'm sticking to it  Not saying an all BA or other Hybrids are easy either, for me KZ came really close on these three however the Terminators (man I should really clean my tips before photos)   lean a we bit to the low end. As always "We do all hear them just a little differently"  





That being said I'm sure KZ has hit the mark on several of the Post Terminator releases as I think that was my last KZ purchase, seems I got snot nose on myself and started up the food chain and down the rabbit hole but on the bright side I do have some really great sounding iem's  LOL


----------



## Nimweth

I concur! ZS7, ZSX, BA10. My top three KZs. The AS12 and AST are growing on me though....


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> I concur! ZS7, ZSX, BA10. My top three KZs. The AS12 and AST are growing on me though....


I'm a little curious of their latest offerings but not sure I'm $$$ ready with cases full of iem's already  It also seems I never travel anymore without a minimal crew LOL

I mean for the life of me why do I have all this with me today  To top off my $$$ thing I just ordered a pair of FiiO FH3's when they dropped to $97 the other day  




Qudelix 5K, Shanling M3s, Lucifer/Solo BT20S combos, BGVP DM6, Ikko OH-10 and Dunu Titans.....................why? There is obviously some kind of chemical imbalance happening here


----------



## phower

XerusKun said:


> Here are the graphs with fixed ratio, the graphs below are their official graphs from their advertisement photos just with scale and ratio fixed. This is still not accurate, expect more peaks at the treble region. The trend of the FR will somehow be same-ish as most reviewers graph since KZ is also using an IEC 711. It's just different because KZ is using a different graphing tool with different settings. But as always its still better if some reviewer can provide their graphs.. 🙂
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the graphs, but in all of them that 10 dB rise still exists. I am very sensitive to treble peaks at 2 kHz and 6 kHz.
 The +5dB at 2kHz sound  _shouty_. One headphone with such a peak is AKG K701/702 which I don't like. 😬


----------



## Podster

Now I remember, cause options are awesome


----------



## 1clearhead

paulwasabii said:


> First try at measuring with the included clear starlines.


My impression will be going up this week on the EDA's and all I can say is that they are capable of being budget killers. For example, when I compared the EDA balanced version with my other budget champs it sounded like a mixture of a CCA CRA and NiceHCK DB1 combined together. No kidding! Who would have known this combination could be possible in a budget category.

-Clear


----------



## Barndoor (Apr 20, 2022)

Anyone interested in CCA CRA can grab on Ali group buy for about $6.50 with free shipping
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqnV5lk


----------



## Jansvast

1clearhead said:


> My impression will be going up this week on the EDA's and all I can say is that they are capable of being budget killers. For example, when I compared the EDA balanced version with my other budget champs it sounded like a mixture of a CCA CRA and NiceHCK DB1 combined together. No kidding! Who would have known this combination could be possible in a budget category.
> 
> -Clear


The balanced looks like a CRA pro, had they released it separately I'd buy it. But I don't want to pay 26€ for the other 2 iems I won't ever use...


----------



## Jansvast

1clearhead said:


> Accidental double post


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 20, 2022)

Jansvast said:


> The balanced looks like a CRA pro, had they released it separately I'd buy it. But I don't want to pay 26€ for the other 2 iems I won't ever use...


+1 Totally agree. Why not sell them separately? Though, all three do have distinctive sound signatures. In other words, they do sound different from one another. The bass does sound really good on the gold/black version, while I do enjoy the high resolution more on the cyan/silver model. It has better resolution than the silver/clear balanced version. So, yea it's really more of a personal preference. But, what actually bothers me more is how they only provide one detachable cable and one set of small/large silicone ear tips in each set of the KZ EDA package of three IEM's. On a positive note, all three have its' separately mounted medium silicone ear tips on each nozzle as default ear tips.

-Clear


----------



## Tzennn

1clearhead said:


> +1 Totally agree. Why not sell them separately? Though, all three do have distinctive sound signatures. In other words, they do sound different from one another. The bass does sound really good on the gold/black version, while I do enjoy the high resolution more on the cyan/silver model. It has better resolution than the silver/clear balanced version. So, yea it's really more of a personal preference. But, what actually bothers me more is how they only provide one detachable cable and one set of small/large silicone ear tips in each set of the KZ EDA package of three IEM's. On a positive note, all three have its' separately mounted medium silicone ear tips on each nozzle as default ear tips.
> 
> -Clear


Well they have a new CCA coming so that might explain why


----------



## ChristianM

CCA CRA with golden faceplate......seen on Facebook.


----------



## r31ya

ChristianM said:


> CCA CRA with golden faceplate......seen on Facebook.







No additional info tough. 
If EDA is better version of CRA and this is the loose pack of EDA, it might be good.


----------



## Jansvast

ChristianM said:


> CCA CRA with golden faceplate......seen on Facebook.


Also in the discord server. Doris said it's CRA+


----------



## XerusKun

*KZ EDA First Impressions*
All of the three has decent technicalities and detail retrieval..They also all sound different even if the graphs may suggest that they almost have the same sound signature.

*Bass Version*
◙ Immersive soundstage
◙ Treble decently tuned but some songs shows the 8kHz peak
◙ Lush and detailed male vocals
◙ Very good detail retrieval
◙ Textured and tight bass response.
◙ Best sounding out of the three if you like bass.
◙ Best for rock, hip-hop, trance, EDM

*High Resolution Version*
◙ Good for ambient music / bossa nova / toho jazz
◙ Treble-centric
◙ Limpy bass response
◙ Harshness occurs with rock tracks
◙ Sparkly and detailed female vocal rendition
◙ Lowest bass quantity out of the three.
◙ May sound too bright for some.

*Balanced Version*
◙ Sounds the best out of three
◙ Midcentric-ish (Vocals are similar to Heart Mirror but with added bass and stage)
◙ Has the immersive soundstage of the bass version
◙ But with tighter bass and more forward vocals
◙ Safely tuned treble, 8kHz is not that peaky as the graphs may suggest.
◙ Beats my Heart Mirror tonal balance and technicalities
◙ Better version of CRA for my library





*My Measurements*


----------



## paulwasabii

XerusKun said:


> *KZ EDA First Impressions*
> All of the three has decent technicalities and detail retrieval..They also all sound different even if the graphs may suggest that they almost have the same sound signature.
> 
> *Bass Version*
> ...


Thanks for the great impressions.  I will second that the Balanced is the best and like others have said, should be sold on its own.  For me, the 2.5k area on the bass set is elevated over the Balanced and throws off that immersive stage on the Bass for me.  For me, the Balanced is a balance between all the good parts (the stage, vocals, well done bass level, the parts borrowed from CRA making it a better CRA for my library too) and the peaks.  I think the Balanced is frustratingly close to balance but they should have damped down 5 and 8k.  And not much at all which is why it is frustrating to me. Foam tips help alot but ruin some of the stage as well.  I'd say Balanced is very, very good, just a hair away from being special.


----------



## Podster

paulwasabii said:


> Thanks for the great impressions.  I will second that the Balanced is the best and like others have said, should be sold on its own.  For me, the 2.5k area on the bass set is elevated over the Balanced and throws off that immersive stage on the Bass for me.  For me, the Balanced is a balance between all the good parts (the stage, vocals, well done bass level, the parts borrowed from CRA making it a better CRA for my library too) and the peaks.  I think the Balanced is frustratingly close to balance but they should have damped down 5 and 8k.  And not much at all which is why it is frustrating to me. Foam tips help alot but ruin some of the stage as well.  I'd say Balanced is very, very good, just a hair away from being special.


Guess that's why they call it (the Blues)  er Balanced


----------



## Carpet

XerusKun said:


> *KZ EDA First Impressions*
> All of the three has decent technicalities and detail retrieval..They also all sound different even if the graphs may suggest that they almost have the same sound signature.
> 
> *Bass Version*
> ...


Thanks for that, very useful.

Buying cheap IEMs in bulk lots to find one decent one, is not going to happen. KZ needs to wake their ideas up.


----------



## jant71

Anybody compare the EDA's and EDC yet?


----------



## Star Love

What is the kz eda nozzle size?


----------



## paulwasabii

Star Love said:


> What is the kz eda nozzle size?


My cheap electronic caliper says 4.83mm


----------



## Jansvast

The Xinhs cable just came for my modded CRA. It is very soft, has all the features I requested and feels premium. For 15€!

Project CRA complete


----------



## 1clearhead (Apr 23, 2022)

Hello my fellow head-fier’s! Here’s my current impression of the *KZ EDA* triple IEM! 



All three EDA’s have surprising results in technicalities and overall stage presence and has different sound signatures as mentioned on the package. So far, so good! So, let’s continue…

 *

*Heavy Bass Version:*
Bass is immersive and actually satisfying for those wanting a bass-focused IEM demonstrating good texture and rumble, which makes them my favorite in the bass category. It has good depth with a very immersive soundstage that makes male vocals and guitar plucking sound so realistic. Surprisingly, the midrange has good transparency while the treble provides hi-end details as well. So, interesting enough, I wouldn’t say that these are only for bass heads, but also for those seeking a fuller and lower bass experience. In the end, I would consider these to be a V-Shape sound signature in the fun category making them convenient and delightfully suitable for the gym.

 *

*Balanced Version:*
For those wanting a balanced IEM, you’re in for a treat! But, I wouldn’t consider these neutral for the fact that the bass is clearly extended with a lower sub-bass rumble. And, even though the MID’s sound mid-centric with forward vocals, the treble can easily extend with plenty of soothing and amazing details. Soundstage is also as immersive as the heavy bass version with slightly tighter bass response with an overall nice transparent and airy sound to them. Honestly, in my years of listening to many IEM’s, this type of signature would be sold at a much higher price range according to the tuning. They do not display any harsh or sibilance on literally most of my tracks and can be enjoyed for hours at a time.

 *

*High Resolution Version:*
Bass is quick and nicely textured with good quality, but with less quantity overall, plus soundstage is not as immersive as the other two. Midrange is vivid and clear with a touch of air and transparency, which favors both male and female respectfully. Treble is very detailed, sparkly and crisp with excellent extension. Mostly, all the details do come through and exposed in high resolution, which means, it’s possible to experience some bad recordings while listening, and will not be so forgiving on certain tracks. So, even though I enjoy the high resolution version, it might not be for everyone. But, once and a while I definitely like to enjoy my tracks in all its’ glory and sparkly hi-end sizzling details. So, I consider these neutral-BRIGHT, IMHO.


*PIC is courtesy of KZ for the KZ EDA

*PROS & CONS:
PROS*
All three are well made
All three are worth the asking price
KZ’s “balanced version” can easily rival more expensive brands
Comes with medium star-line silicone ear tips on all three

*CONS*
All three are not sold separately
Comes with only one detachable cable
Comes with only one set of small/large star-line silicone ear tips in the package
Bass version or high resolution version can be too intense for some

*CONCLUSION:*
KZ did a very good job setting apart the sound signature for each IEM for selective genre’s and is well tuned in this regard. Plus, I personally think it's worth the current low price. Though, the disadvantage is that they do come with only one silver-like transparent detachable cable and one set of small and large star line silicone ear tips in the whole package. But, on the bright side, all three do come with its own medium star line silicone ear tips installed on each nozzle. Unfortunately, there are those who had only wished for them to be sold separately, which I totally agree! In a way though, I did kind of grow fond of this three IEM trio after listening to them for some time now. But, if the price becomes much higher to the point of the lack of accessories not matching the expense, then that might be an issue for those looking for a budget deal.

Hope my impressions of the KZ EDA was helpful...

 - Clear


----------



## jananan78

Podster said:


> I'm a little curious of their latest offerings but not sure I'm $$$ ready with cases full of iem's already  It also seems I never travel anymore without a minimal crew LOL
> 
> I mean for the life of me why do I have all this with me today  To top off my $$$ thing I just ordered a pair of FiiO FH3's when they dropped to $97 the other day
> 
> ...


do tell us your impressions on the fh3 as i just ordered one as well based on my experience with other fiio products. the seller hasn't shipped so i still have time to consider if i should get it or the single DD FD3...


----------



## Star Love

Any info about cca cra+ using which drivers as yet?


----------



## kennyhack (Apr 24, 2022)

Star Love said:


> Any info about cca cra+ using which drivers as yet?


Already on Aliexpress... But TWICE the price of the Original CRA ...  . It might be cheaper once it's available on Official KZ store BTW...

CRA+ Aliexpress link


----------



## XerusKun

Star Love said:


> Any info about cca cra+ using which drivers as yet?


Same 3.8um diaphragm, different magnet and coil configuration (same as the EDA), different DD housing with added waveguide at the back. That's what I understand from their ads.


----------



## Carpet

kennyhack said:


> Already on Aliexpress... But TWICE the price of the Original CRA ...  . It might be cheaper once it's available on Official KZ store BTW...
> 
> CRA+ Aliexpress link


I liked the CRA because the bass extended well and the mid weren't too recessed. It was also pretty clean.

This looks like a Steeper V with boosted mid-bass, recessed mids and rolled off upper treble!
Take with a pinch of salt!







Be interesting to hear how they sound, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Jansvast

This is the official graph from the KZ earphones franchised store on Ali. They fixed the aspect ratio and the CRA curve actually looks recognisable.





They are evolving.


----------



## paulwasabii

Jansvast said:


> This is the official graph from the KZ earphones franchised store on Ali. They fixed the aspect ratio and the CRA curve actually looks recognisable.
> 
> 
> 
> They are evolving.


Evolving after the bad feedback on the original graph.  I was hoping they would re-do the graph to show the 40khz range needed for that Hires sticker.


----------



## paulwasabii

1clearhead said:


> Hello my fellow head-fier’s! Here’s my current impression of the *KZ EDA* triple IEM!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice rundown of the trio.  I do prefer the Hires version and I think most people will just assume the Hires is some boosted treble ear killer, but it is not.  As you mentioned, it is better at detail and that is what got me with that one.  Also as you said, the stage on the other two is different from Hires but still big enough to never feel cramped.  The bass/treble balance is a bit different from Balanced to Hires since the gain on Balanced is lower like CRA and Hires is more traditional KZ.  Hires just works out better for me but make sure you try both.  More rambling here:


----------



## Jansvast

paulwasabii said:


> Evolving after the bad feedback on the original graph.  I was hoping they would re-do the graph to show the 40khz range needed for that Hires sticker.


I had a good giggle on the 40k claim when I saw the graph XD


----------



## kolisten09

First post! Just got my first proper IEM with the CRN and CCA CRA as well as a gifted Ikko OH2. Liking them so far though I do have to say a bit lacking in bass. Looking to try the DQ6S next to fit my on-the-go needs, wouldn't mind to lose a bit of details for a more upbeat sound.


----------



## Carpet (Apr 25, 2022)

kolisten09 said:


> First post! Just got my first proper IEM with the CRN and CCA CRA as well as a gifted Ikko OH2. Liking them so far though I do have to say a bit lacking in bass. Looking to try the DQ6S next to fit my on-the-go needs, wouldn't mind to lose a bit of details for a more upbeat sound.



Look beyond KZ if you are looking to upgrade! They have a lot of models, with not a lot of variations in sound signature. CRN and CRA were two of their better releases last year. CCA CA16 is smooth, warm and bassy, but at $60, there are better choices.

Models like Tripowin Mele, CVJ Mirror and BLON BL-03 all have an elevated bass. All about $50. BL-03 needs new tips (Spinfit CP100) and a new cable (either 0.78 2pin or TFZ).

Tipsy TTROMSO is more expensive at about $90, but if you want bass, they are fantastic!


----------



## kolisten09

Carpet said:


> Look beyond KZ if you are looking to upgrade! They have a lot of models, with not a lot of variations in sound signature. CRN and CRA were two of their better releases last year. CCA CA16 is smooth, warm and bassy, but at $60, there are better choices.
> 
> Models like Tripowin Mele, CVJ Mirror and BLON BL-03 all have an elevated bass. All about $50. BL-03 needs new tips (Spinfit CP100) and a new cable (either 0.78 2pin or TFZ).
> 
> Tipsy TTROMSO is more expensive at about $90, but if you want bass, they are fantastic!


Thanks for this. Just starting out with entry-levels for daily use and yes, looking at other ones as I also liked the Ikko OH2 that was gifted to me especially the looks.


----------



## jananan78

kolisten09 said:


> First post! Just got my first proper IEM with the CRN and CCA CRA as well as a gifted Ikko OH2. Liking them so far though I do have to say a bit lacking in bass. Looking to try the DQ6S next to fit my on-the-go needs, wouldn't mind to lose a bit of details for a more upbeat sound.


welcome to the rabbit hole


----------



## paulwasabii

kolisten09 said:


> First post! Just got my first proper IEM with the CRN and CCA CRA as well as a gifted Ikko OH2. Liking them so far though I do have to say a bit lacking in bass. Looking to try the DQ6S next to fit my on-the-go needs, wouldn't mind to lose a bit of details for a more upbeat sound.


Also, try the large set of tips if they are still in the bag in case you are losing some bass due to bad fit.


----------



## Taila

kolisten09 said:


> Thanks for this. Just starting out with entry-levels for daily use and yes, looking at other ones as I also liked the Ikko OH2 that was gifted to me especially the looks.


Welcome to this fun hobby. I’ve got to agree with @paulwasabii, make that you got a very good fit, low frequencies get lost if fit is not great. The CRN is very friendly to EQ, so if you can, play around with that.


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> welcome to the rabbit hole



There is problem with this rabbit hole. When offered a red pill or a blue pill, a lot of us will take both!


----------



## Nimweth

I have discovered a nice bit of synergy. Xduoo X20 > KBEAR Limpid Pro cable > AST. Beautifully balanced sound with improved soundstage. Smooth extended treble and nice resolved mids. Worth trying it if you have that combination.


----------



## Podster (Apr 27, 2022)

My favorite thing about KZ is they just keep on listening to fans and seem to release something for almost everyone's taste and I'm sure the current crop are no different than previous releases, creating very nice iem's for ones dolla 

I'm never shy about how I feel on any product or what you get with some gears who just happen to mesh well and punch far beyond what one pays for them 

I was simply amazed at just how well this rig synergized! Benjie X6, Tripowin 8 core SP cable and the/my top 3 all time BA iem in the BA10's. The most amazing part is this entire rig cost a whopping $136  How can you not love this hobby


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> My favorite thing about KZ is they just keep on listening to fans and seem to release something for almost everyone's taste and I'm sure the current crop are no different than previous releases, creating very nice iem's for ones dolla
> 
> I'm never shy about how I feel on any product or what you get with some gears who just happen to mesh well and punch far beyond what one pays for them
> 
> I was simply amazed at just how well this rig synergized! Benjie X6, Tripowin 8 core SP cable and the/my top 3 all time BA iem in the BA10's. The most amazing part is this entire rig cost a whopping $136  How can you not love this hobby


I have a very similar setup with the BA10. My Senlee cable looks identical to your Tripowin and I run them from my Xduoo X20.


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> I have a very similar setup with the BA10. My Senlee cable looks identical to your Tripowin and I run them from my Xduoo X20.


Nice, I like me some Xduoo  From Tiny to Massive!







or silver if you prefer


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> There is problem with this rabbit hole. When offered a red pill or a blue pill, a lot of us will take both!


LoL well said. we want to get a taste of the bad ones in order to appreciate the better ones.


----------



## Podster

jananan78 said:


> LoL well said. we want to get a taste of the bad ones in order to appreciate the better ones.


Not so much as bad, just not quite as good as some others


----------



## Tzennn

I really like how they changed the bass and mid, but the treble ... I guess i will pass this one!


----------



## evasb

CRA+ looks close to Aria


----------



## Jansvast

It indeed looks great exceot the upper treble... Maybe it won't be too bothersome tho.


----------



## rayliam80 (Apr 28, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> I really like how they changed the bass and mid, but the treble ... I guess i will pass this one!



I think the CCA CRA mods by @RikudouGoku addressed some of the issues that CRA+ addressed minus the bass. I think the black or silver face place is better looking than the gold faceplate. So I’ll stick to my recently modded CRA’s with high density foam.


----------



## Tzennn

rayliam80 said:


> I think the CCA CRA mods by @RikudouGoku addressed some of the issues that CRA+ addressed minus the bass issue. I think the black or silver face place is better looking that the gold faceplate. So I’ll stick to my recently modded CRA’s with high density foam.


i tried the foam mod but 5k peak still there, with even less air, CRA with 2 high density foam is my favorite mod aswell


----------



## rayliam80 (Apr 28, 2022)

Tzennn said:


> i tried the foam mod but 5k peak still there, with even less air, CRA with 2 high density foam is my favorite mod aswell


Yeah it’s still slightly ringy but it’s toned down a bit with two of the high density foams in each nozzle. However, I prefer the DQ6 modded the same way more than the CRA right now.

I’ve also used the same foams to mod the ZS6 and LZ A5 (stuffed in the replaceable nozzle) to smooth out some of their problematic regions while still preserving details.


----------



## XerusKun

For people who are interested to see an in-depth review of the KZ EDA, I've published mine here.  Hope I can help those who need more opinions about the EDA.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-eda.25768/reviews


----------



## Aparker2005

Podster said:


> My favorite thing about KZ is they just keep on listening to fans and seem to release something for almost everyone's taste and I'm sure the current crop are no different than previous releases, creating very nice iem's for ones dolla
> 
> I'm never shy about how I feel on any product or what you get with some gears who just happen to mesh well and punch far beyond what one pays for them
> 
> I was simply amazed at just how well this rig synergized! Benjie X6, Tripowin 8 core SP cable and the/my top 3 all time BA iem in the BA10's. The most amazing part is this entire rig cost a whopping $136  How can you not love this hobby


Dmb yes!!


----------



## myromeo

I’m finding myself returning to my ZS10 Pro’s more often than not, whilst not technically perfect they’re a fun set to listen to and suit rock quite well. I’ve made a custom EQ that smooths out 3khz+ range whilst leaving bass and mids untouched. Difference is very subtle. Made using crinacles equaliser module. 

PEQ file attached if anyone wishes to try it.


----------



## hmscott (May 2, 2022)

Hey guys, I've got some new IEM's, the KZ EDA's courtesy of Hifigo.com , Thank you!

I was surprised at how tiny the box is that holds all 3 pair!  From the marketing photo's I thought it would be a "huge" presentation box, but instead it's a cute mini box.
The box is almost the same size as the last single KZ pair box I received - the Crinacle CRN ZEX Pro 

I am pleasantly surprised at how much I am enjoying listening to the KZ EDA "Balanced" pair - I'm still burning them in right now - but out of the box they are very listenable.

I did find that the Medium tip was a bit too small, and they picked up a lot of Bass and Sound Stage after switching to the Large tips provided.

The included cable isn't bad at all, of course I wished there were a cable (and Tips!) for each IEM, I hate swapping IEM cables (and Tips!), the micro sized IEM connections make me nervous, but I get on with it aok. 

I'll try some other cables too, but for now I'll swap the similar Crinacle CRN ZEX Pro cable over to service testing the EDA "High Resolution Version" and EDA "Heavy Bass Version"...

From others' reports it sounds like the other two pair will be fun as well, I'm looking forward to enjoying all 3!  Only $36.99!! What a bargain!!


----------



## InvisibleInk

hmscott said:


> I am pleasantly surprised at how much I am enjoying listening to the KZ EDA "Balanced" pair - I'm still burning them in right now - but out of the box they are very listenable.



I'm interested in the balanced pair, also. I wonder if it is as good as the CRA.

I like how each pair in the EDA offering is a single dynamic driver, with no other drivers for anyone like me to suspect that even if they're there, they're not working.


----------



## hmscott

InvisibleInk said:


> I'm interested in the balanced pair, also. I wonder if it is as good as the CRA.
> 
> I like how each pair in the EDA offering is a single dynamic driver, with no other drivers for anyone like me to suspect that even if they're there, they're not working.


Yup, IDK if KZ EDA's were conceived and created as part of the aftermath, but if not they sure are a serendipitous product, with great timing for KZ!

I'm getting the same feeling, that single DD's are right up there with single Planar's for reliable sound, the Timeless was another single driver win for my ears 

IDK if I will get the CRA+, but it sounds like a good revision from the CRA - which I've also not heard. 
If you get both I'll look forward to your comparisons!


----------



## XerusKun

InvisibleInk said:


> I'm interested in the balanced pair, also. I wonder if it is as good as the CRA.
> 
> I like how each pair in the EDA offering is a single dynamic driver, with no other drivers for anyone like me to suspect that even if they're there, they're not working.


It is just not "as good as the CRA", but literally sounds like a refined/upgraded CRA. I have both, EDA removes the treble aggresiveness that the CRA has, plus it has more midrange.


----------



## XerusKun

hmscott said:


> Well guys, I've got some new IEM's, the KZ EDA's courtesy of Hifigo.com , Thank you!
> 
> I was surprised at how tiny the box is that holds all 3 pair!  From the marketing photo's I thought it would be a "huge" presentation box, but instead it's a cute mini box.
> The box is almost the same size as the last single KZ pair box I received - the Crinacle CRN ZEX Pro
> ...


You should try Kbear 07 tips or any wide bore with all the three, they improved the sound by alot in my experience.


----------



## hmscott

XerusKun said:


> You should try Kbear 07 tips or any wide bore with all the three, they improved the sound by alot in my experience.


I've seen several mentions recommending the Kbear 07 tips... which size(s) do you use?


 They all look like they have the same tube/barrel/shaft diameter:

And, where can I buy just M+ and L sizes?  The mixed offerings waste too many small tips I never can use:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001872079894.html


----------



## XerusKun (May 1, 2022)

hmscott said:


> I've seen several mentions recommending the Kbear 07 tips... which size(s) do you use?
> 
> They all look like they have the same tube/barrel/shaft diameter:
> 
> ...


The medium size fits the best for me, but if you have smaller ears then the M- will work. M+ if you think you have larger ears than average.

Edit: You can buy separate sizes in the link you provided.


----------



## trippleed

Love KZ EDA. So far KZ nailed it with them. They don't need to be so accurate following harman or df target. As long as their tuning are fun and mature enough to approach one of the targets like they did on kz eda balance. They will be unstoppable and have their own fans some cheers 🍻


----------



## XerusKun

This sounds eerily similar to BL03 just with better tech and bass control...


----------



## 4ceratops

XerusKun said:


> This sounds eerily similar to BL03 just with better tech and bass control...


That would make me sincerely happy, I hope to hear it in a similar way.


----------



## countryboyhk

XerusKun said:


> This sounds eerily similar to BL03 just with better tech and bass control...



Seems to be another BL07


----------



## hmscott (May 2, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> The medium size fits the best for me, but if you have smaller ears then the M- will work. M+ if you think you have larger ears than average.


I usually get ML size, or M+ as Large is most always far too big for me, and M is just a bit too small.  It really does make a big difference in the sound quality to find the correct fitting eartip that matches the IEM and my ears together. 


hmscott said:


> ...And, where can I buy just M+ and L sizes?  The mixed offerings waste too many small tips I never can use:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001872079894.html





XerusKun said:


> Edit: You can buy separate sizes in the link you provided.


I am looking for alternative sellers with better labeling discipline, and if I can get it sooner via a US shipment I would prefer to find a US seller.
Thanks for the help in finding alternative sellers. 


Spoiler: Details...



Sorry for not going into detail before, I did a poor job explaining what I meant and needed, here are the Details I left out of the previous post:

If you check the product listing at the link I posted earlier (above in this response too), some of the Option Text Labels are incorrect, 2 of the 3 M labels should have a +/- and do not.  None of the labels that need a + or - in the text bother to have the correct matching of product name text to Color.

I don't want to purchase from that particular seller because of their lazy labeling - nor any seller with such poor product option naming/labeling.

I have been stung before by "assuming" the Color and Text Label mis-match errors are inconsequential, and then the Product Packer matches an inadequate text label there instead of matching the color, and I end up receiving the wrong product.

And, it isn't the $, it is the time wasted waiting for the shipment to arrive, and then discovering I've been shipped the wrong product.  Then I'd need to look for another seller anyway after receiving the wrong product, so I might as well find a seller I trust the first time.


Current Amazon listings have limited sizes showing available, except for the mixed size pack and sizes I don't need.  I'm looking for M+ only.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=kbear+07+ear+tips

It's weird, I'm only finding AliExpress stores with no M+ text labels, only M and some M-
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001872079894.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001935540402.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003079526805.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803803831925.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001961851191.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001961587783.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001961308339.html

KBear's Offical AliExpress store is doing this M/M+ mis-labeling too:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001869773798.html

This AliExpress store has most text labels incorrectly matched to Color.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003058158972.html

And, this non-Aliexpress site has M/M-/M text labels:
https://keephifi.com/products/kbear-07-eartips

Has anyone found a seller with the correct labeling for M+ to (Aqua) Blue?


----------



## Carpet

hmscott said:


> I usually get ML size, or M+ as Large is always far too big for me, and M is just a bit too small.  It really does make a big difference in the sound quality to find the correct fitting eartip that matches the IEM and my ears together.
> 
> 
> Yes, but the labels are incorrect, 2 of the 3 M labels should have a +/- and do not.  In fact none of the labels bother to have the correct matching of product name text to Color.
> ...



With more size options you may find a different tip gives a better fit in each ear, or that one step smaller works for a deeper fitting IEM. Either case gives you two useable sets from one mixed set. If you have friends or relatives with different size then you can make use of the spare sizes. I take L or M+, my Wife takes M and a friend at my old workplace takes S. Given that the set of five sizes costs about the same as two individual pairs, that's a win. My only gripe is the shipping charges, five individual pairs get charged a hell of a lot more than one set of five pairs.


----------



## hmscott

Carpet said:


> ...My only gripe is the shipping charges, five individual pairs get charged a hell of a lot more than one set of five pairs.


That's too bad, I hadn't gotten far enough to see any shipping overcharges.

So far I've not found a single seller with the correct naming of the M+ product I want to purchase.

I'll keep looking for an accurate listing of the KBear 07 M+ (Aqua) Blue tips...

Until then I'll continue buying AZLA ML tips of various styles...


----------



## Deolum

Sorry if this has already been asked but is there any way to seperately buy the tips that came with the CRN?


----------



## Carpet

Deolum said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked but is there any way to seperately buy the tips that came with the CRN?


KZ Starline tips are available in most AliExpress stores that stock KZ. They come in a pack of S/M/L.

Honestly not the best tips, it's worth upgrading. Tips make a huge difference, if you don't get a good seal the IEMs won't sound right.


----------



## Deolum

Carpet said:


> KZ Starline tips are available in most AliExpress stores that stock KZ. They come in a pack of S/M/L.
> 
> Honestly not the best tips, it's worth upgrading. Tips make a huge difference, if you don't get a good seal the IEMs won't sound right.


The Starline tips don't look like the ones coming with the CRN. I'm looking specifically for those.


----------



## 4ceratops

Deolum said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked but is there any way to seperately buy the tips that came with the CRN?


Are these the ones?
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...lgo_pvid=7668afbd-746c-4e35-a69b-6efdb5fdda7f


----------



## Carpet

4ceratops said:


> Are these the ones?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...lgo_pvid=7668afbd-746c-4e35-a69b-6efdb5fdda7f



I like their stated lack of quality control, "there may be a slight error of +/- 1-2mm, which will not effect normal use". 

*That's a completely different size for eartips, which bloody well will effect normal use!





*

As I recall the CCA CA16 came with a different pattern tip to the starlines. More dome shaped than conical, and a bit shorter too. I've never seen that pattern offered for sale seperately .


----------



## G777

4ceratops said:


> Are these the ones?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...lgo_pvid=7668afbd-746c-4e35-a69b-6efdb5fdda7f


Those are the very thin tips they included for IEMs like the DQ6. Not the same as starlines.

The CRN has clear starline tips. I don't think you can order those on their own, unfortunately.


----------



## Tzennn

Deolum said:


> The Starline tips don't look like the ones coming with the CRN. I'm looking specifically for those.


They aren't listed it yet, closest alternative would be kbear 07, or Newbee tips (tho it's slightly harder and wider)


----------



## XerusKun

Still wondering why KZ  is selling the EDA Balanced around $10 assuming that EDA is $30...Cause this is literally a bop, this sound nothing like the $10 IEMs I've tried in the past, this EDA Balanced should be priced at $30 atleast...cause if KZ ever planned to release this babies below $20 this will be the new default, I'm calling it right now.

To justify my rumblings here, here is another comment from a reviewer from Chifi Audio Reviews group at facebook.


----------



## trippleed

XerusKun said:


> Still wondering why KZ  is selling the EDA Balanced around $10 assuming that EDA is $30...Cause this is literally a bop, this sound nothing like the $10 IEMs I've tried in the past, this EDA Balanced should be priced at $30 atleast...cause if KZ ever planned to release this babies below $20 this will be the new default, I'm calling it right now.
> 
> To justify my rumblings here, here is another comment from a reviewer from Chifi Audio Reviews group at facebook.


I can't agree more. It is the most well balance product from KZ. A technical version of QKZ VK4. Ticks every sectors that we need from a balance IEM. Wide soundstage, nice tonality, speedy transient, good detail retrieval, fun sounding iem (as expected from every kz iem), and etc.


----------



## Atek2019 (May 7, 2022)

so, no body talk about KZ EDX-Ultra ????
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004251513870.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.37e02e0esqNkur


----------



## XerusKun

Atek2019 said:


> so, no body talk about KZ EDX-Ultra ????
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004251513870.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.37e02e0esqNkur


I saw some reviewer saying that its a mix between CRA+ and EDA Bass.


----------



## r31ya (May 7, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> I saw some reviewer saying that its a mix between CRA+ and EDA Bass.


hmm, KZ EDX Ultra with crap mspaint job to get the db scaling the same with crin EDX Pro graph
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004251513870.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.37e02e0esqNkur













Despite the ads for better bass, its the treble that change the most. more linear treble response...
At $20 its now slightly pricier than CCA CRA, brave pricing.


----------



## Ynot1 (May 8, 2022)

I switched from KZ EDR2 to JadeAudio JD3 and there was a significant jump in dynamic efficiency. I clearly don't need an amp with the JD3 while the EDR2 sounds relatively sluggish and now I believe it needs an amp. Granted the EDR2 is a relic. What would be a fair comparison in respect to dynamic efficiency? I sense as diaphragm technology improves, iem will no longer need an amp. EDA, CRA+, EDX Ultra, and I noticed the Trn Vx came down in price?

Edit: Someone at Aliexpress is watching me. The price went back up.


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> KZ Starline tips are available in most AliExpress stores that stock KZ. They come in a pack of S/M/L.
> 
> Honestly not the best tips, it's worth upgrading. Tips make a huge difference, if you don't get a good seal the IEMs won't sound right.


i think the cp100s are one of the best ones around


----------



## phower

XerusKun said:


> Still wondering why KZ  is selling the EDA Balanced around $10 assuming that EDA is $30...Cause this is literally a bop, this sound nothing like the $10 IEMs I've tried in the past, this EDA Balanced should be priced at $30 atleast...cause if KZ ever planned to release this babies below $20 this will be the new default, I'm calling it right now.
> 
> To justify my rumblings here, here is another comment from a reviewer from Chifi Audio Reviews group at facebook.


Because most people have moved on to TWS. You can buy an average TWS for $20. The average person favors convenience over sound quality. 
If KZ wants to sell them, they have to reduce their price.


----------



## jant71

Ynot1 said:


> I switched from KZ EDR2 to JadeAudio JD3 and there was a significant jump in dynamic efficiency. I clearly don't need an amp with the JD3 while the EDR2 sounds relatively sluggish and now I believe it needs an amp. Granted the EDR2 is a relic. What would be a fair comparison in respect to dynamic efficiency? I sense as diaphragm technology improves, iem will no longer need an amp. EDA, CRA+, EDX Ultra, and I noticed the Trn Vx came down in price?
> 
> Edit: Someone at Aliexpress is watching me. The price went back up.



I just bought a CRA to go with my BQeyz Z3 BT cable. I have a FiiO JH3 which i really like but not with the Z3 which can't power it and it sounds bad compared to wired. The CCA sings with the Z3 though. Big open and not compressed at all. Very dynamic and all the details are there with no smoothing. Nice and easy to drive.

I hope they do use this driver in a convenient TWS, power it right, maybe give it some chamber to breath and give it aptX at least if not adaptive. Could be a must have if they do it right and price it at about $59-$69 bucks.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

kolisten09 said:


> Thanks for this. Just starting out with entry-levels for daily use and yes, looking at other ones as I also liked the Ikko OH2 that was gifted to me especially the looks.


Love that purple case <3


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> i think the cp100s are one of the best ones around


Try the KBEAR 07, I only tried them after they came with an IEM. Prefer them to CP100 now. Cheaper too!


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> Try the KBEAR 07, I only tried them after they came with an IEM. Prefer them to CP100 now. Cheaper too!


it seems to mimic the acoustune AET series


----------



## 4ceratops

jananan78 said:


> it seems to mimic the acoustune AET series


Yes, they are basically the same, and I also prefer them over the CP100s, which have quite a pronounced effect on the colour of the sound.


----------



## jananan78

4ceratops said:


> Yes, they are basically the same, and I also prefer them over the CP100s, which have quite a pronounced effect on the colour of the sound.


i do have both but comfort wise i still prefer the cp100s, even with a tight fight and good isolation it doesn't hurt. AET is stiffer in comparison, of course stiffer means less resonance from the tips material hence less coloration


----------



## HAMS

Anyone tried EDS yet? curious if it step up from EDX or at least comparable to EDA or CCA CRA.


----------



## r31ya

HAMS said:


> Anyone tried EDS yet? curious if it step up from EDX or at least comparable to EDA or CCA CRA.


Right now the attention is on EDX Ultra, the even newer one.


----------



## HAMS

r31ya said:


> Right now the attention is on EDX Ultra, the even newer one.


Yeah but that twice the price. EDS is priced similar to original EDX.


----------



## countryboyhk

HAMS said:


> Anyone tried EDS yet? curious if it step up from EDX or at least comparable to EDA or CCA CRA.



My ranking, CRA > EDX Pro > EDS.
I find EDS soundstage not as open as the others, technically seems left behind. Never try the EDX.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> Right now the attention is on EDX Ultra, the even newer one.


I must have dozed off for a moment. I missed the latest FOTM!


----------



## r31ya (May 13, 2022)

Carpet said:


> I must have dozed off for a moment. I missed the latest FOTM!


Don't worry as we type apparently we both missed EDX Ultra+MAX

If i recalled it right EDS appear along side of EDC both side grade for EDX and not quite EDX Pro level.
I don't quite remember why but there are the $20~30 KZ that is more focused by reviewer here instead of EDS and EDC, the beginning of Magnetostats batch?


----------



## bhazard

The EDA balanced is pretty decent out of the box, far better than anything else anywhere near $10 (except for the CRA and now Moondrop Chu).
Like most IEMs, it needs some EQ to really shine. All I needed was some slight boosts all around and it's performing extremely well. Curious to try some AutoEQ settings on this when available.


----------



## Carpet

bhazard said:


> The EDA balanced is pretty decent out of the box, far better than anything else anywhere near $10 (except for the CRA and now Moondrop Chu).
> Like most IEMs, it needs some EQ to really shine. All I needed was some slight boosts all around and it's performing extremely well. Curious to try some AutoEQ settings on this when available.


If they'd sell them individually for $15, I'd buy one. I don't see $30 dollars for two IEMs I don't want with no tips or cables, as being any kind of bargain!


----------



## nraymond

Carpet said:


> If they'd sell them individually for $15, I'd buy one. I don't see $30 dollars for two IEMs I don't want with no tips or cables, as being any kind of bargain!


Funny you should say that - they do sell them separately and there is a limited time coupon right now that drops them to $15:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtiYHEi


----------



## Carpet

I admitted to buying a new DAP an hour ago...  I'm in goodwill overdraft!


----------



## XerusKun

Carpet said:


> If they'd sell them individually for $15, I'd buy one. I don't see $30 dollars for two IEMs I don't want with no tips or cables, as being any kind of bargain!


They are selling the balanced individually though..
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrMGAFo


----------



## yaps66

Carpet said:


> I admitted to buying a new DAP an hour ago...  I'm in goodwill overdraft!


What did you get?!


----------



## Carpet

yaps66 said:


> What did you get?!


I got the A&K SR25, they were on sale locally for 40% off over Easter! I'm really impressed with the sound. It's a big improvement from the R2: brighter, cleaner and and wider. Easier to use with the bigger screen too.


----------



## independent

The KZ ASF, an IEM I've wanted to try was $US25 at the last sale but I missed out, however, it has gone to half that, so dirt cheap. At the KZ official store on ali. Enjoy


----------



## MacAttack7

independent said:


> The KZ ASF, an IEM I've wanted to try was $US25 at the last sale but I missed out, however, it has gone to half that, so dirt cheap. At the KZ official store on ali. Enjoy


I think that's one of the best bargains out there as long as it fits you. Fits my ears perfectly...snaps in like it was custom-made for me. I still don't understand all of the negative reviews it got, because I really like it. Vocals sound good on it.


----------



## independent

MacAttack7 said:


> I think that's one of the best bargains out there as long as it fits you. Fits my ears perfectly...snaps in like it was custom-made for me. I still don't understand all of the negative reviews it got, because I really like it. Vocals sound good on it.


I forgot about the size. I've got the ASX so no problem there. But yes, the ASX and I think the ASF has the nozzle quite shallow and the body quite far into the ear canal compared to other IEMs. Overall, hoping for a neutral IEM with good bass resolution and quantity. So, quality and quantity of bass without hyped treble.


----------



## rayliam80 (May 15, 2022)

independent said:


> I forgot about the size. I've got the ASX so no problem there. But yes, the ASX and I think the ASF has the nozzle quite shallow and the body quite far into the ear canal compared to other IEMs. Overall, hoping for a neutral IEM with good bass resolution and quantity. So, quality and quantity of bass without hyped treble.



I got the ASF and the AS12 during the recent anniversary sale. For the ASF, I had to tip roll a lot (Foams, Final E, Azla Sedna, Azla Xelastec, Spinfits, E-Pro) and ended up enjoying Spinfit CP145 (S) the most. I was able to dial it into that sweet spot of good resolution throughout all frequency bands, good soundstage and decent detail retrieval. The treble is definitely dialed back as advertised by other reviewers/comments and makes for a pretty smooth listen. I also didn't really think these were that bulky until they arrived. They are thick. I don't have big ears so even with the small tips, they're not completely sitting in my concha. If I go with smaller tips that go deeper in my ear canal (Final E extra small), I don't get a good seal. I also paired it with the KZ 8 Core Silver/Blue cable for the time being but this adds to the weight so I'm unsure if I'm going to keep this cable on it. It's a nice sounding set in this configuration but I need to take a break after an hour so because my ears get sore.


----------



## Carpet (May 15, 2022)

rayliam80 said:


> I got the ASF and the AS12 during the recent anniversary sale. For the ASF, I had to tip roll a lot (Foams, Final E, Azla Sedna, Azla Xelastec, Spinfits, E-Pro) and ended up enjoying Spinfit CP145 (S) the most. I was able to dial it into that sweet spot of good resolution throughout all frequency bands, good soundstage and decent detail retrieval. The treble is definitely dialed back as advertised by other reviewers/comments and makes for a pretty smooth listen. I also didn't really think these were that bulky until they arrived. They are thick. I don't big ears so even with the small tips, they're not completely sitting in my concha. If I go with smaller tips that go deeper in my ear canal (Final E extra small), I don't get a good seal. I also paired it with the KZ 8 Core Silver/Blue cable for the time being but this adds to the weight so I'm unsure if I'm going to keep this cable on it. It's a nice sounding set in this configuration but I need to take a break after an hour so because my ears get sore.



Good to hear that CP145 fits, that means KBEAR 07 should fit. I'm a sucker for warm tunings and the ASF looks like it fits the bill and certainly worth a try $11. It also accounts for the divergent reviews. Many of the neutral bright crowd are utterly dismissive of tunings that aren't overly hot in the treble. I am treble sensitive so I find that attitude annoying. BLON BL-03, CCA CA16, Tipsy TTROMSO and TRI Meteor are all IEMs I enjoy. The TRI I3 pro also has a forward mid-bass with recessed treble and received reviews that either praised or rubbished it .I've learnt that I can use those biased reviewers as a canary in the mine. If they scream in outrage at an IEM's tuning, then it's worth a closer look. If they fawn over the IEM, then it's probably too hot in the treble!

Bright and warm are personal preferences, whatever floats your boat!


----------



## MacAttack7

independent said:


> I forgot about the size. I've got the ASX so no problem there. But yes, the ASX and I think the ASF has the nozzle quite shallow and the body quite far into the ear canal compared to other IEMs. Overall, hoping for a neutral IEM with good bass resolution and quantity. So, quality and quantity of bass without hyped treble.


If you have the ASX there is no point getting the ASF unless you just want a 2nd pair at a bargain price.
I use CP360 tips and the fit is perfect.


----------



## independent

MacAttack7 said:


> If you have the ASX there is no point getting the ASF unless you just want a 2nd pair at a bargain price.
> I use CP360 tips and the fit is perfect.


Thanks for that. That is indeed what I'm hoping for. My ASX has been resoldered on the bass BA and one of the connectors were wobbling from the beginning. I glued it, but for something that cost so much money I was pretty disappointed with the build. Makes me laugh a bit, I mean I have them, big copper cables but when you see what's connecting each driver to each other it makes you wonder.. So a pair of less expensive ASX or something with the same sound signature would be great.


----------



## MacAttack7

independent said:


> Thanks for that. That is indeed what I'm hoping for. My ASX has been resoldered on the bass BA and one of the connectors were wobbling from the beginning. I glued it, but for something that cost so much money I was pretty disappointed with the build. Makes me laugh a bit, I mean I have them, big copper cables but when you see what's connecting each driver to each other it makes you wonder.. So a pair of less expensive ASX or something with the same sound signature would be great.


What is the cheapest you have seen the ASF? I see it now for $18.04.


----------



## rayliam80

Carpet said:


> Good to hear that CP145 fits, that means KBEAR 07 should fit. I'm a sucker for warm tunings and the ASF looks like it fits the bill and certainly worth a try $11. It also accounts for the divergent reviews. Many of the neutral bright crowd are utterly dismissive of tunings that aren't overly hot in the treble. I am treble sensitive so I find that attitude annoying. BLON BL-03, CCA CA16, Tipsy TTROMSO and TRI Meteor are all IEMs I enjoy. The TRI I3 pro also has a forward mid-bass with recessed treble and received reviews that either praised or rubbished it .I've learnt that I can use those biased reviewers as a canary in the mine. If they scream in outrage at an IEM's tuning, then it's worth a closer look. If they fawn over the IEM, then it's probably too hot in the treble!
> 
> Bright and warm are personal preferences, whatever floats your boat!



If you find the KBEAR 07 to be a little loose on the nozzle, just do a spacer mod, similar to the 03. I had my ASF in my ears for almost two hours earlier this morning and one of the tips decided to pop off in my ear. I sacrificed some old knock-off Sony hybrid tips I never use, cut the nozzles off, slipped them over the ASF nozzle and then the CP145s slipped over those. It's a tight fit that may stretch the 145's nozzles over time but I think it's worth it for the ASF. And if it's an interest to anyone else, the Xelastecs have a good grip on the ASF nozzle but it tends to warm the sound and compress it a little bit more than the CP145 which I feel has a good balance of airiness and separation yet still retaining some warmth and bass presence. I'm definitely not a fan of the thin nozzle on the ASF and the 03 just because of the mods needed to attach some aftermarket tips securely. I feel the ASF is a good deal for the $23 I paid for it. And $11, as long as you get the fit/tips dialed in, it's a steal if you're treble shy. I don't find myself partial to any sound signature and like having a variety of IEMs to pick and choose from, whatever suits my mood for the day.


----------



## independent

MacAttack7 said:


> What is the cheapest you have seen the ASF? I see it now for $18.04.


It's the KZ official store. I dont know what I paid in USD but I paid around that in NZD. It's still that price for the minute. I dont expect it to last. It's one colour with mic, they are just running them out I think.


----------



## Carpet (May 16, 2022)

independent said:


> It's the KZ official store. I dont know what I paid in USD but I paid around that in NZD. It's still that price for the minute. I dont expect it to last. It's one colour with mic, they are just running them out I think.


KZ Global Store and Headphone Factory Derect Store have the blue ones at US$26, everywhere else is still over US$50. So the winner is still US$11 for another 3 days:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001506244865.html

This video from Paul Wasabii is worth watching if you are considering picking these up.



I wonder if the KZ ASX is going to be next? It was released at the same time and got a similar poor response.


----------



## baskingshark

Carpet said:


> I wonder if the KZ ASX is going to be next? It was released at the same time and got a similar poor response.



Yeah KZ is probably trying to clear the unsold unpopular stuff. Before they move on to the next weekly side grade pokemon release which has a Max or Ultra or Pro moniker haha.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Carpet said:


> KZ ASX is going to be next?


in my case a ASX worse than ASF bcz a mids veryVeryVery deep and bass is veryVeryVery bassesssss(maybe good for basshead by the way).

ASF ok iems for 20-30$ but soundstage is very narrow, a short highs and very uncomfortable biggest shell. But design very cool.


----------



## countryboyhk

I am stuck on the KZ parallel universe.  I thought I was buying a 3-Pack crew neck T-shirt, but I bought a box of EDA instead.  People here wear iem and never care about T-shirt, just feels so crazy


----------



## Carpet

rayliam80 said:


> If you find the KBEAR 07 to be a little loose on the nozzle, just do a spacer mod, similar to the 03. I had my ASF in my ears for almost two hours earlier this morning and one of the tips decided to pop off in my ear. I sacrificed some old knock-off Sony hybrid tips I never use, cut the nozzles off, slipped them over the ASF nozzle and then the CP145s slipped over those. It's a tight fit that may stretch the 145's nozzles over time but I think it's worth it for the ASF. And if it's an interest to anyone else, the Xelastecs have a good grip on the ASF nozzle but it tends to warm the sound and compress it a little bit more than the CP145 which I feel has a good balance of airiness and separation yet still retaining some warmth and bass presence. I'm definitely not a fan of the thin nozzle on the ASF and the 03 just because of the mods needed to attach some aftermarket tips securely. I feel the ASF is a good deal for the $23 I paid for it. And $11, as long as you get the fit/tips dialed in, it's a steal if you're treble shy. I don't find myself partial to any sound signature and like having a variety of IEMs to pick and choose from, whatever suits my mood for the day.


I have SpinFit CP100 or KBEAR 08 if the nozzle is loose with the KBEAR 07. Those are 3.8mm and 3.3mm if I recall.


----------



## Steve Dave

Hello,
Can anyone please confirm that the Balanced model of the EDA which sold separately is exactly the same version as the one sold in the 3-pack?


----------



## Ceilidh

Steve Dave said:


> Hello,
> Can anyone please confirm that the Balanced model of the EDA which sold separately is exactly the same version as the one sold in the 3-pack?


according to KZ, it is the exact same product  you just get one pair instead of three.
To be fair the "balanced" version is supposed to be their newest DD, but at this price point, it's only interesting if it is really the only one you want.

At this point, I'd also wait to see more reviews for the CCA CRA+ and the KZ EDX Ultra before deciding which one I'd get


----------



## Carpet (May 19, 2022)

TBH, they lost me when they pumped up the price of the CRA+ and KZ EDA.  Still same all plastic construction, so no step up in build quality. Inflated (non functioning) driver count no longer works, so they double the price of their entry DD offerings.  One Reecho SG-01 OVA or TRN TA1 Max look much more enticing, than buying the 2 new KZ offerings.


----------



## Ceilidh (May 19, 2022)

Carpet said:


> TBH, they lost me when they pumped up the price of the CRA+ and KZ EDA. Greed will knockback their dominance in the  entry market. Inflated (non functioning) driver count no longer works, so they double the price of their DD offerings. Reecho SG-01( Inc. OVA) and TRN TA1 Max look like much more promising options now. What KZ did was reprehensible, and no remorse shown.


Well I really don't know about that. Keep in mind that what I'm saying below is my opinion, and you're of course totally entitled to yours.

I mean, reviews of their most recent single drivers seem to be very positive, and the whole "non-functionning" drivers thing was apparently, at least partially, a dud.
Of course there were QC issues that they confirmed regarding the DQ6S, and that is a shame ,(and to be honest, what's the point of intentionnaly showing the inside of your IEMs by using clear resin if you're lying about what's inside ? Makes no sense, except if it is indeed a QC issue.) but the whole "the drivers do nothing" thing was apparently based on a misunderstanding, the "whistleblower" (for lack of a better term) as since confirmed he didn't really know what he was doing with his measurements and he even asked Dunu for confirmation that he was mistaken, and Dunu confirmed that even in their own devices, the additional drivers wouldn't show on the graphs.

I do understand where you're coming from, though, and your opinion is as valid as mine. To me, as a newbie to this hobby, and reading about this thing a couple of months later, it looks more like a lot of people jumping on the hate bandwagon. That doesn't mean that KZ hasn't done anything shady (and just adding a bunch of drivers in their IEM without any real improvement to the sound is shady), but I do believe that their answer about having QC issues was honest, at least, and the fact that their recent products are simpler and mostly based on improving their DD seems to be a step in the right direction.

So, based on this, I don't really see an issue either with them increasing the price of some of their single DD products, if they really are good.
That doesn't mean I'll buy those especially, and I'd rather get a better IEM for the same price, but if they're the best for the budget I have, I don't see why I wouldn't get those either.
As long as the sound is good for the price, I really don't care about the brand.

Also, full disclosure, I usually use big ol' cans as my daily drivers, and just decided to get into IEMs because, well, it's just too hot to use cans in the summer, so I'm very new to this hobby 
I was looking for cheap-o buds to give IEMs a try and got a pair of CCA CRA, as it was the first thing that showed up when cross-referencing several message boards, and for the price, I liked them (but way too many treble for me).
Now that I know a bit more about IEMs (and that I'm getting better at putting them on), I'm willing to spend more on a better pair, and I'm currently looking at other brands for a good pair around 100€, since none of KZ models can apparently compete for that price bracket.


----------



## lushmelody

Carpet said:


> TBH, they lost me when they pumped up the price of the CRA+ and KZ EDA.  Still same all plastic construction, so no step up in build quality. Inflated (non functioning) driver count no longer works, so they double the price of their entry DD offerings.  One Reecho SG-01 OVA or TRN TA1 Max look much more enticing, than buying the 2 new KZ offerings.


Yeah, it seems TRN is winning this time. A branded BA hybrid while all its competition is single DD. Hardware wise they are giving so much more for the money. Hidizs MS2 and TRI Meteor are double its price....


----------



## evasb (May 19, 2022)

What KZ needs is up the quality of the shell now. If CRA+ had a better shell, people wouldn't complain too much in paying double CRA.

They could use foam in CRA+ too, increasing the durability of the IEM.

PS: Praising competitors because they use branded BAs is not fair, both TA1 and TA2 are simply bad, imo (would like to see if they fixed this in TA1 Max). I would agree that TRN is putting more effort in build quality, though.


----------



## XerusKun

lushmelody said:


> Yeah, it seems TRN is winning this time. A branded BA hybrid while all its competition is single DD. Hardware wise they are giving so much more for the money. Hidizs MS2 and TRI Meteor are double its price....


TRN is winning? When? All I see these past few days are how capable are the new dynamic drivers of KZ. Specially the EDX Ultra and EDA Balanced one, TRN can't even follow the harman target which KZ is religiously following right now, their recent IEMs are excellenty tuned to be honest.

I also agree that KZ need to improve their shells, but to be honest with the tuning their pumping right now, the shells are just a second thought specially for consumers who like good sounding set.

Also have you seen precog review of CRA+? It literally beats 10+ IEMs when it comes to details.


----------



## Ceilidh (May 19, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> TRN is winning? When? All I see these past few days are how capable are the new dynamic drivers of KZ. Specially the EDX Ultra and EDA Balanced one, TRN can't even follow the harman target which KZ is religiously following right now, their recent IEMs are excellenty tuned to be honest.
> 
> I also agree that KZ need to improve their shells, but to be honest with the tuning their pumping right now, the shells are just a second thought specially for consumers who like good sounding set.
> 
> Also have you seen precog review of CRA+? It literally beats 10+ IEMs when it comes to details.


I wonder how the EDX Ultra is going to compare.
I'm looking for something with a bit of bass, but still good with the mids, and as far as I understand, the CRA+ might be a bit weak regarding bass for my taste.
I saw one of your comments saying the EDX Ultra might be between the CRA+ and EDA Bass, so that might be interesting.
I'm currently waiting for more reviews of the TA1 Max and OVA SG-01 before making my mind, but as I said, if KZ has changed their tuning as it seem they have, I'd rather get a couple cheap-o buds before investing more than my current target of 100€ for a better pair.

EDIT: Well, NVM, just saw that Precog was mentioning the EDX ultra in his CCA CRA+ review, so that's my question answered


----------



## baskingshark

XerusKun said:


> TRN is winning? When? All I see these past few days are how capable are the new dynamic drivers of KZ. Specially the EDX Ultra and EDA Balanced one, TRN can't even follow the harman target which KZ is religiously following right now, their recent IEMs are excellenty tuned to be honest.
> 
> I also agree that KZ need to improve their shells, but to be honest with the tuning their pumping right now, the shells are just a second thought specially for consumers who like good sounding set.
> 
> Also have you seen precog review of CRA+? It literally beats 10+ IEMs when it comes to details.



TRN has heard your challenge and is releasing a planar called the KIRIN: https://www.facebook.com/headphones.trn/posts/549181379942774



Maybe KZ might copy them soon. The driver nuclear race for as many drivers as KZ and TRN can squeeze into a shell is over. This year the battle is that of planars!!!


----------



## XerusKun

baskingshark said:


> TRN has heard your challenge and is releasing a planar called the KIRIN: https://www.facebook.com/headphones.trn/posts/549181379942774
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe KZ might copy them soon. The driver nuclear race for as many drivers as KZ and TRN can squeeze into a shell is over. This year the battle is that of planars!!!


The question is will they tune that planar(?) properly. Recent TRN releases aren't even that well known since they are still following an eccentric tuning. What will be the purpose of a novel or capable driver if it is not tuned that well. These days I ironically trust KZ more than TRN when it comes to tuning, crinacle really influenced their house sound.


----------



## baskingshark

XerusKun said:


> The question is will they tune that planar(?) properly. Recent TRN releases aren't even that well known since they are still following an eccentric tuning. What will be the purpose of a novel or capable driver if it is not tuned that well. These days I ironically trust KZ more than TRN when it comes to tuning, crinacle really influenced their house sound.



TBH I owned around 20 KZs and TRNs (each) in the past, and don't trust both KZ and TRN.

They both had a similar modus operandi of pushing as much drivers as possible, or releasing sidegrades on a weekly basis, throwing as much crap on the wall and hoping something sticks. Granted KZ has shifted from sibilant treble harsh V shaped tunings to more refined tunings recently (garnering tuning advise from some big names), and seem to realize that bigger driver count doesn't equate to better tuning, though they had a bit of an issue with the driver saga. 

TRN tuning seems to fluctuant between banshee screaming treble types to lowFI bass bleed types, and their QC is also very questionable, had a few TRN sets die on me. 

KZ was my first introduction to CHIFI and I thank them for that, but honestly, there are lot of other CHIFI brands nowadays that do things better than these 2 old rivals IMHO.


----------



## countryboyhk (May 19, 2022)

For the ZES owners, you should give it at least 200hr burn-in, and you will be amazed at the result.  I mean the difference is really night and day.  After burn-in, the vocal becomes so rich and organic with smooth high.  Bass is very powerful and punchy yet no bleeding.  Separation is expectional and soundstage is huge with the 12mm DD. Its tuning is very musical now, which is different to most of the other KZ iems.


----------



## XerusKun

countryboyhk said:


> For the ZES owners, you should give it at least 200hr burn-in, and you will be amazed at the result.  I mean the difference is really night and day.  After burn-in, the vocal becomes so rich and organic with smooth high.  Bass is very powerful and punchy yet no bleeding.  Separation is expectional and soundstage is huge with the 12mm DD. Its tuning is very musical now, which is different to most of the other KZ iems.


I achieved all those improvements you've said by just using a proper source and eartips. Specifically I've just use a Sony EP EX11 tips and a cheapo CX31993 dongle to achieve that huge soundstage, organic sound signature and deep bass response. I found them very sensitive with tips. I also tried them with Radius Deep Mount and they became more bright and cymbals became more detailed and nuanced.

ZES is a good IEM no doubt, but I still prefer my EDA Balanced for that transparent/clean yet dynamic sound signature.


----------



## Steve Dave

Ceilidh said:


> according to KZ, it is the exact same product  you just get one pair instead of three.
> To be fair the "balanced" version is supposed to be their newest DD, but at this price point, it's only interesting if it is really the only one you want.
> 
> At this point, I'd also wait to see more reviews for the CCA CRA+ and the KZ EDX Ultra before deciding which one I'd get


Thanks.
Saw that the EDA 3-pack being discounted to the same lower price as individual balanced and wondered if there was a reason other than the 3-pack not selling fast enough and retailers wanting to clear shelf space.
The downside of KZ releasing new models so frequently I guess.


----------



## crabdog

If you're on the fence about the KZ EDA, maybe my review will help you decide if it's the one (3) for you.


----------



## saldsald

XerusKun said:


> The question is will they tune that planar(?) properly. Recent TRN releases aren't even that well known since they are still following an eccentric tuning. What will be the purpose of a novel or capable driver if it is not tuned that well. These days I ironically trust KZ more than TRN when it comes to tuning, crinacle really influenced their house sound.


Which recent TRN releases?


----------



## Carpet

XerusKun said:


> The question is will they tune that planar(?) properly. Recent TRN releases aren't even that well known since they are still following an eccentric tuning. What will be the purpose of a novel or capable driver if it is not tuned that well. These days I ironically trust KZ more than TRN when it comes to tuning, crinacle really influenced their house sound.



Well, the BAX and TA1 Max are both getting very good feedback so far (not much is out yet).
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-ta1-max-universal-in-ear-monitor.25854/reviews
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-bax.25781/reviews

Yes, KZ has made an improvement in their recent tunings, but only *after* Crinacle and HBB provided input. Given they both got burned in the process, I don't think KZ is going to find it easy attracting further collaborations. It is fair to say that the current KZ releases are better than TRN's older models, but they are also better than KZ's older models. It is not a valid conclusion that TRN's next releases will not be similarly improved. This sector of audio is evolving at an amazing rate, how do 2018 IEM's compare to todays models?

We all have different preferences and budgets. I would personally dread if all manufacturers agreed on a perfect target sound signature, then just produced clones of it.


----------



## XerusKun

Carpet said:


> Well, the BAX and TA1 Max are both getting very good feedback so far (not much is out yet).
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-ta1-max-universal-in-ear-monitor.25854/reviews
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-bax.25781/reviews
> 
> ...


The review you've shown looks like an advertisement to me rather than a real review. Plus that's only one person have you seen the responses in other platforms like Facebook? They seem to be lukewarm about those IEMs you mentioned. I even see someone saying that the 5kHz is too hot with the BAX. 

I am also not saying the TRN will not improve, they will improve in the future ofcourse, I'm just saying that with the tuning directions that KZ is doing right now they are a bit ahead than TRN, till now TRN still retain their own eccentric tuning- Vshaped either lots of treble or bass (TA1, V90S, etc.) that is a mixed bag in the community.


----------



## saldsald

XerusKun said:


> The review you've shown looks like an advertisement to me rather than a real review. Plus that's only one person have you seen the responses in other platforms like Facebook? They seem to be lukewarm about those IEMs you mentioned. I even see someone saying that the 5kHz is too hot with the BAX.
> 
> I am also not saying the TRN will not improve, they will improve in the future ofcourse, I'm just saying that with the tuning directions that KZ is doing right now they are a bit ahead than TRN, till now TRN still retain their own eccentric tuning- Vshaped either lots of treble or bass (TA1, V90S, etc.) that is a mixed bag in the community.


I can confirm the BAX is a big leap forward by TRN and I prefer it over the more expensive Moondrop Variations with 1 more BA on each side.


----------



## Carpet

XerusKun said:


> The review you've shown looks like an advertisement to me rather than a real review. Plus that's only one person have you seen the responses in other platforms like Facebook? They seem to be lukewarm about those IEMs you mentioned. I even see someone saying that the 5kHz is too hot with the BAX.
> 
> I am also not saying the TRN will not improve, they will improve in the future ofcourse, I'm just saying that with the tuning directions that KZ is doing right now they are a bit ahead than TRN, till now TRN still retain their own eccentric tuning- Vshaped either lots of treble or bass (TA1, V90S, etc.) that is a mixed bag in the community.



As I said, there is very little on those two releases available yet. Those were the only reviews on this site (which funnily enough, I tend to use as a source of information). Nothing reliable on YouTube either. I await your well considered opinions on those IEMs _after_ you have heard them! Since it's a KZ thread, how about we avoid using it to slag off other manufacturers.


----------



## r31ya (May 23, 2022)

TRN do the simple but good move on to use "higher" quality drivers. Their tuning is still hit and miss but when it hits, its hits hard.
TRN TA1, and now TRN TA1 MAX is seems to be pretty damn good.
But you occasionally still have to deal with things like TRN TA2 which to plenty, nowhere as good as TA1.
Not sure about the QC tough, TRN used to have shittier QC compared to KZ. Hopefully it have improved.

KZ feels have one direction with that samey tuning with more drivers for a bit too long.
Thankfully, recently it tried to have different tuning by working with external tuner
and with the recent drama, it seems KZ is focusing on experimenting with tuning and trying new driver in single driver setup iem.

EDA is direct experimentation on three tuning. To KZ, tuning switch seems to be more expensive than simply making three iem.
CCA CRA is have pretty good positive reviews.
Early impression on the new EDX Ultra is pretty positive.
CCA CRA+ have a bit polarizing tuning but it also seems to be pretty source sensitive which add to the polarizing reviews.

To note, all the KZs above is $30 and less. TRN TA1 is $40 and dare to move up market with the better drivers set with pretty impressive result.

Hopefully after having new tuning direction and new drivers, KZ $40+ will be much better than before.
But as for now, TRN is daring to improve themselves to unprecedented height (and pricier).
And KZ still experiment in safe budget market and reorganizing their business plan.


----------



## baskingshark

Ladies and Gents, welcome to the next weekly episodic release of the next KZ:

Presenting........ the KZ ESX:






https://www.facebook.com/KZEarphones/posts/1437223876708714

So we have KZ ZEX, now ESX, what's next? KZ SEX?


----------



## Podster

baskingshark said:


> Ladies and Gents, welcome to the next weekly episodic release of the next KZ:
> 
> Presenting........ the KZ ESX:
> 
> ...


Well it is "To seek the truth" you know


----------



## Ceilidh (May 25, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Ladies and Gents, welcome to the next weekly episodic release of the next KZ:
> 
> Presenting........ the KZ ESX:
> 
> ...


according to their AliExpress store, it's a single 12mm liquid crystal driver developed in-house, so I guess it's a new version of the ZES driver.
It also looks like it's about 20 bucks.

EDIT: comparing graphs, it looks like a ZES with a spike around 7k, and I guess a few differences in sound texture due to the liquid crystal diaphragm.


----------



## Jansvast (May 25, 2022)

It seems to graph close to EDA hires. KZ's graph with fixed ratio. It also looks like it has quite a profound treble dip.


----------



## rambomhtri

To enjoy commuting and free time while working (wait what?), I am looking for a fully wireless IEM. I love KZ, indeed as my daily driver IEM I use KZ ZS7, but it's less convenient to use while riding bike, going to places, shops, etc... So, since I love KZ, I am deciding between 2 KZ's. There are a few musts:
1. It has to send aptX HD and not AAC
2. It has to have the latest BT (5.2)
3. The charging box must have type-C USB

There are 2 candidates:








I've tried the SK10 (not pro) and I believe they are AAC, and also one thing that bugged me a lot is that the in-voice to announce things and warnings in the IEM is very low quality and sounds horrible. I don't want a voice like that all day. The BT 5.0 KZ cable has a nice voice, for example.
So there are 2: the top VX10 or the cheap option Z3. Which one you recommend and why?
Wasting $60 in a secondary IEM kind of hurts but if it's worth it I would buy it. I want to confirm the in-voice of these 2 is smooth and nice, and not recorded with a potato.


----------



## Rocket222

BT 5.2 may not provide you APTX-LL, HD, or Adaptive.  Many KZ wireless have BT 5.2, but they cheap out at the codec, or bait and switch, whatever you call it.  Got burnt from buying AZ09 pro; it has BT 5.2 but only has APTX (classic) codec.


----------



## rambomhtri

Rocket222 said:


> BT 5.2 may not provide you APTX-LL, HD, or Adaptive.  Many KZ wireless have BT 5.2, but they cheap out at the codec, or bait and switch, whatever you call it.  Got burnt from buying AZ09 pro; it has BT 5.2 but only has APTX (classic) codec.


AZ09 Pro is not wireless, it has a wire although very thick and short. It's easy to guess that I'm looking for an IEM that has all inside, no extra dongles. AZ09 Pro specs say it has aptX HD, BTW.


----------



## Carpet (May 25, 2022)

rambomhtri said:


> To enjoy commuting and free time while working (wait what?), I am looking for a fully wireless IEM. I love KZ, indeed as my daily driver IEM I use KZ ZS7, but it's less convenient to use while riding bike, going to places, shops, etc... So, since I love KZ, I am deciding between 2 KZ's. There are a few musts:
> 1. It has to send aptX HD and not AAC
> 2. It has to have the latest BT (5.2)
> 3. The charging box must have type-C USB
> ...



The KZ VX10 appears to be another product for the  iFail followers (they prefer to pay more).






The KZ Z3 lists Aptx-LL, Aptx-HD and Aptx-Adaptive on the product description page.





KZ Z3 case has a better form factor, if you want to put it in a pocket. I very much doubt the mic in the more recent product, will be worse. Driver count is a bit passé and I don't like the look of it prominently on the outer face of the VX10.  Even if the VX sounds better, you will be using SBC instead of Apt-HD. There is no contest, the cheaper option wins!


----------



## r31ya (May 25, 2022)

rambomhtri said:


> To enjoy commuting and free time while working (wait what?), I am looking for a fully wireless IEM. I love KZ, indeed as my daily driver IEM I use KZ ZS7, but it's less convenient to use while riding bike, going to places, shops, etc... So, since I love KZ, I am deciding between 2 KZ's. There are a few musts:
> 1. It has to send aptX HD and not AAC
> 2. It has to have the latest BT (5.2)
> 3. The charging box must have type-C USB
> ...


with KZ tws, get the "pro" or the one with Aptx/QC3040.
Not because of the aptx themselves, its more on that QC3040 bluetooth chip that comes with it, noticeably better in battery life.

Or if you wanna spend a lot

Soundpeats H1, $80
Dual driver 1dd+1KnowlesBA


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

KZ Z3 is a bass trash tws 
only bass and no more

kz sk10 much more better


----------



## Nimweth

rambomhtri said:


> To enjoy commuting and free time while working (wait what?), I am looking for a fully wireless IEM. I love KZ, indeed as my daily driver IEM I use KZ ZS7, but it's less convenient to use while riding bike, going to places, shops, etc... So, since I love KZ, I am deciding between 2 KZ's. There are a few musts:
> 1. It has to send aptX HD and not AAC
> 2. It has to have the latest BT (5.2)
> 3. The charging box must have type-C USB
> ...


+1 for the ZS7!


----------



## Carpet

rambomhtri said:


> To enjoy commuting and free time while working (wait what?), I am looking for a fully wireless IEM. I love KZ, indeed as my daily driver IEM I use KZ ZS7, but it's less convenient to use while riding bike, going to places, shops, etc... So, since I love KZ, I am deciding between 2 KZ's. There are a few musts:
> 1. It has to send aptX HD and not AAC
> 2. It has to have the latest BT (5.2)
> 3. The charging box must have type-C USB
> ...



If you want to step outside the KZ brand. Edifier TWS1 pro good sound and amazing battery life (12hrs plus 30 from case). USB C and charges pretty quick. Siri or Google assistant is missing, but I find the touch volume controls way more useful. BlueTooth 5.2 and supports AptX adaptive. Microphone sounds good. Chip is Qualcomm 3040. You can use either earpiece individually (handy for calls). The only drawback is lack of ANC, but the KZ's don't have that either. I've found them really handy if I can't be bothered taking wired IEMs  and a DAP or BT DAC/Amp.

Normal price is US$40 (I picked mine up on 11/11 sale for less), as an older model it's likely to be available at a good discount during sales. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002080403819.html


----------



## rambomhtri

Carpet said:


> The KZ VX10 appears to be another product for the  iFail followers (they prefer to pay more).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, you are right, it is incredible how I didn't notice VX10 is AAC... then there's Z3 only. Have you tried it? The voice is okay? Recorded correctly like for example BT 5.0 KZ grey cable?


----------



## rambomhtri

Then, guys, I think the final battle is between KZ Z3 and KZ SK10 Pro:








I guess Z3 wins, right?


----------



## Carpet (May 26, 2022)

rambomhtri said:


> Damn, you are right, it is incredible how I didn't notice VX10 is AAC... then there's Z3 only. Have you tried it? The voice is okay? Recorded correctly like for example BT 5.0 KZ grey cable?


I haven't tried any of the KZ or CCA TWS, so I can't comment on their sound. Aptx is what you want for android, AAC is only any use for Apple. If you get that wrong you end up with SBC which is the worst quality Codec for bluetooth. There are a few TWS that support LDAC, but those are getting expensive. I was looking for something last year, when I was locked down in another city during the Delta outbreak. Nothing to do but watch Netflix and YouTube. So I watched and read all the reviews I could find, and the Edifier TWS1 pro kept coming up in the best under US$50. I bought those and have used them for the last 5 months. The bass isn't overdone and they sound clean. For the price I don't think you can touch these. For better sound on the go I use BTR3K and wired IEMs. That's cheaper than high end TWS (sounds better too). You could upgrade to BTR5, but that costs more and gets shorter battery life!


----------



## rambomhtri

just bought Z3, I hope assistant voice is not rec in bad quality


----------



## r31ya

So, uhh...
After two weeks of seeking reviews for EDA, CRA+, EDX Ultra and checking import condition (china covid lockdown), i was going to buy blind buy discounted KZ ESX.
$18 for LCP with detachable cable, seems to be ok graph, and celebrating 10 years of KZ that introduce me to chifi.

But before buying one, i decided to check around on local KZ store and they finally have KZ EDA (fullset) and CRA+, on discount. 
i could get KZ EDA for $23 and arrive in my home like tomorrow...

So yeah, about that aliexpress KZ ESX plan...


----------



## Carpet

rambomhtri said:


> just bought Z3, I hope assistant voice is not rec in bad quality



You'll be fine. They probably sound like Fran Drescher.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> So, uhh...
> After two weeks of seeking reviews for EDA, CRA+, EDX Ultra and checking import condition (china covid lockdown), i was going to buy blind buy discounted KZ ESX.
> $18 for LCP with detachable cable, seems to be ok graph, and celebrating 10 years of KZ that introduce me to chifi.
> 
> ...


Too late for me, I ordered the ESX yesterday.... So the revised plan is TRN TA1 Max in the next sale, and Thieaudio Elixir on 11/11 and NOTHING ELSE! 

BTW, exactly how many IEMs is too many?


----------



## r31ya (May 27, 2022)

I was wondering whether to save for TRN TA1 Max (or Reecho SG01 OVA, which also already available somehow, but i prefer to wait for TRN TA1 Max after its early review)
I want some hybrids, especially decently tuned knowles+berry hybrids in semi open back shell. that's like my described wished spec.
Most of my recent iems is single dd (CST, Tanya, Aria, CRA) only ZEX Pro that is hybrid.


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> So, uhh...
> After two weeks of seeking reviews for EDA, CRA+, EDX Ultra and checking import condition (china covid lockdown), i was going to buy blind buy discounted KZ ESX.
> $18 for LCP with detachable cable, seems to be ok graph, and celebrating 10 years of KZ that introduce me to chifi.
> 
> ...




Bro, by the time you wait a week, a new KZ pokemon sidegrade will be released. Maybe it will have an "ULTRA" or "MAX" or "PRO" name attached to it.


----------



## r31ya (May 27, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Bro, by the time you wait a week, a new KZ pokemon sidegrade will be released. Maybe it will have an "ULTRA" or "MAX" or "PRO" name attached to it.


I was waiting for more CRA+ reviews to get a beater iem since the reviews is so divisive. (i gave away my CRA to coworker, he love it)
not to mention local seller still kinda advise against importing due to lockdown effect.
By now we have KZ EDX Ultra, KZ EDA Balanced (single unit), KZ ESX...
maybe next week we'll have LCP+KnowlesBA.

It reminds me the ol days of KZ where they side grade every freakin week.


----------



## countryboyhk

r31ya said:


> So, uhh...
> After two weeks of seeking reviews for EDA, CRA+, EDX Ultra and checking import condition (china covid lockdown), i was going to buy blind buy discounted KZ ESX.
> $18 for LCP with detachable cable, seems to be ok graph, and celebrating 10 years of KZ that introduce me to chifi.
> 
> ...



I have a burn-in EDA balanced and a ZES, the ZES (12mm DD ) soundstage is noticeably wider. So, the ESX using 12mm DD seems promising too.  EDA balanced imaging is also good, its tuning is rather smooth than CRA, bass is lighter.  SQ is a little better for CRA, but I will treat EDA balanced and CRA the same grade.  I also tried the CRA+ demo, not impressed and several people told me that they like the original CRA more.


----------



## r31ya

countryboyhk said:


> I have a burn-in EDA balanced and a ZES, the ZES (12mm DD ) soundstage is noticeably wider. So, the ESX using 12mm DD seems promising too.  EDA balanced imaging is also good, its tuning is rather smooth than CRA, bass is lighter.  SQ is a little better for CRA, but I will treat EDA balanced and CRA the same grade.  I also tried the CRA+ demo, not impressed and several people told me that they like the original CRA more.


hows the imaging and placement between EDA balanced and CRA?
CRA bass and vocals seems to be too close to each other or in the same place really.


----------



## Carpet (May 27, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> Bro, by the time you wait a week, a new KZ pokemon sidegrade will be released. Maybe it will have an "ULTRA" or "MAX" or "PRO" name attached to it.


Yeah, the IEM names are getting as bad as Covid strains. BA5 VOC - the new wonder version that makes all the old strains redundant. All I can figure out is that the new strain has five balanced armatures. Is it a reissue of the old TRN BA5?


----------



## countryboyhk

r31ya said:


> hows the imaging and placement between EDA balanced and CRA?
> CRA bass and vocals seems to be too close to each other or in the same place really.



You can treat EDA balanced a bass light version of CRA. Bass and vocal seems to be the same positioning as CRA to me.  Their tuning are quite similar, wear one EDA left and one CRA right, the difference is so little.  I think I love EDA balanced more cos it has less peaks and less bass. Its more smooth to me.


----------



## r31ya (May 27, 2022)

countryboyhk said:


> You can treat EDA balanced a bass light version of CRA. Bass and vocal seems to be the same positioning as CRA to me.  Their tuning are quite similar, wear one EDA left and one CRA right, the difference is so little.  I think I love EDA balanced more cos it has less peaks and less bass. Its more smooth to me.


While i like bass, i don't particularly fond of CRA bass.
its been awhile since i listen to it so i don't quite remember why.
something about difference between ZEXPro bass and CRA bass.


----------



## countryboyhk

r31ya said:


> While i like bass, i don't particularly fond of CRA bass.
> its been awhile since i listen to it so i don't quite remember why.
> something about difference between ZEXPro bass and CRA bass.


My preference : ZES > EDA Balanced > CRA. ZES is a different beast if you love meaty vocals and bass.


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> While i like bass, i don't particularly fond of CRA bass.
> its been awhile since i listen to it so i don't quite remember why.
> something about difference between ZEXPro bass and CRA bass.



ZEX pros are using XUN driver while CRAs are using new thin diaphragm DD.
I really like XUN driver for the bass. They slam and punch harder, moving much air.
And Im really picky about bass quality.
While I found the CRA bass have very good speed and details for all frequencies, the XUN have more punch and weight to the bass.
So maybe for multidriver, I prefer XUN to handle bass section, and for overall as single driver, the new DD on CRA is preferable.
I have KZ Z1 which is single DD XUN (the first XUN that KZ introduce), they are losing speed and details to new thin DD although not by big margin.


----------



## Steve Dave

Carpet said:


> Edifier TWS1 pro


I never heard of them before now and I don't need them.....but I want them.
Damn you sir.


----------



## MacAttack7

baskingshark said:


> Ladies and Gents, welcome to the next weekly episodic release of the next KZ:
> 
> Presenting........ the KZ ESX:
> 
> ...


Are there any other pics of these showing if the shell has that protrusion at the top or if it's flat?
I like the shells with the protrusion such as the DQ6/Zex Pro/ASX. They seem to clip into my ear better whereas the flat ones don't feel quite as secure.


----------



## RikudouGoku

There is a new beast here. Can you guess which one it is?


----------



## jant71

RikudouGoku said:


> There is a new beast here. Can you guess which one it is?



Ummmmmmmmm.....Ultra??


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> Ummmmmmmmm.....Ultra??


----------



## jant71

RikudouGoku said:


> There is a new beast here. Can you guess which one it is?


Same driver. Do you mean another beast or the KZ is more of a beast than the CCA for some reason which you will divulge?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> Same driver. Do you mean another beast or the KZ is more of a beast than the CCA for some reason which you will divulge?


EDX Ultra > CRA+

Its actually the best KZ I heard (non-modded). 

CRA+ treble was a bit too much for me and I had to mod it.


----------



## jant71

RikudouGoku said:


> EDX Ultra > CRA+
> 
> Its actually the best KZ I heard (non-modded).
> 
> CRA+ treble was a bit too much for me and I had to mod it.


Do you expect to say that again for the ESX in 10 more days?


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> Do you expect to say that again for the ESX in 10 more days?


Nope, cuz I wont have it.


----------



## jant71

So then we still need someone to compare the 10mm and 12mm.


----------



## r31ya

RikudouGoku said:


> There is a new beast here. Can you guess which one it is?


surprisingly tuned close to what you like.
just need that cleaner bleed.
---
I have ordered ESX, 10th anniversary iem and all. 12mm LCP with EDA High-Res tuning should be interesting.
dunno when will arrive, normally at 2 weeks but china condition being what it is...


----------



## RikudouGoku

r31ya said:


> just need that cleaner bleed.


It actually doesnt bleed. The bass is pretty much like the DQ6.


----------



## r31ya

RikudouGoku said:


> It actually doesnt bleed. The bass is pretty much like the DQ6.


oooh, nice. 
hows the bass quality compared to CRA+ or DQ6/CRA


----------



## RikudouGoku

r31ya said:


> oooh, nice.
> hows the bass quality compared to CRA+ or DQ6/CRA


better than the CRA+ (mine is modded to dampen the treble).

A step below the DQ6. 

CRA is more sub-bass focused.


----------



## PhonoPhi

I just got EDA.
Surely, I do not need more IEMs, especially, single DDs...

Yet, amazing for under $24 (!)

The "heavy bass" is wasted on me.

The "balanced" are the best to my ears, at par with CRA, and perhaps are better (I am a bit sensitive to 5 kHz, despite being as much "of a treble head" as it gets).

The "high resolution" one reminded me of HZ Mirror; Mirror wins in comparison, but not by far for $40+ vs. nominally $8 IEM.

So one more time, my respect to KZ!

Ordered ESX right away, hopefully they will be shipped promptly and will be the special anniversary IEM (or else I like the "crack" design enough to spend $18 or so).

P. S. I used the old KZ tips, since I am out of wide-bore ones for new IEMs and was lazy to switch. I could appreciate how comfortable the KZ tips are, and they do fine for the sound.
 I also use KZ "fancy" non-balanced cables and good old Sonata HD pro as a source that I got to appreciate as a very neutral DAC.


P. P. S. Listening to the balanced EDA more now, I think I can live with it as my single IEM - not something you can hear easily from this all-BA fan


----------



## r31ya (May 28, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> The "high resolution" one reminded me of HZ Mirror; Mirror wins in comparison, but not by far for $40+ vs. nominally $8 IEM.


huh, i just remember it, someone else make that comparison.
Early impression have noted that Hi-Res is in direction of Chu and HZMirror...
If ESX is a step up from EDA Hi-res at $18, it should be interesting comparison to Chu and HZMirror

and seems most didn't particularly like the EDA bass version, what went wrong?

I can get EDA set for $24 and arrive like tomorrow but still on the fence on it as i just bought ESX (which still come like in 2 weeks at earliest, maybe 3 in good scenario)


----------



## jant71

RikudouGoku said:


> better than the CRA+ (mine is modded to dampen the treble).
> 
> A step below the DQ6.
> 
> CRA is more sub-bass focused.



Not sure if anyone has found the same but the CRA likes weak sources. My Cowon D3 single ended is not even powerful but high gain wrecks them as the bass bleeds but I put it to lower power and the bass sings and is sharp and tight and quick. Only from memory but in the same low power state the CRA bass is a step better than DQ6 bass. Of course we have our own recipes so devices and tips differ.  CRA Still king for BT with it's bass reach and quality in lower power conditions and BT cuts treble so the CRA treble adds back the right amount to make it work. Might try the ESX.


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> Not sure if anyone has found the same but the CRA likes weak sources. My Cowon D3 single ended is not even powerful but high gain wrecks them as the bass bleeds but I put it to lower power and the bass sings and is sharp and tight and quick. Only from memory but in the same low power state the CRA bass is a step better than DQ6 bass. Of course we have our own recipes so devices and tips differ.  CRA Still king for BT with it's bass reach and quality in lower power conditions and BT cuts treble so the CRA treble adds back the right amount to make it work. Might try the ESX.


oh, I feed everything with my Schiit Asgard 3, with its 3.5 watt@32ohm.


----------



## requal (May 28, 2022)

CRA - bassy and smooth
EDA balanced - best texture, most realistic sound, maybe bit too much shine on top
CRA+ - smoother then EDA bal., best tonality for me, midrange on Moondrop Chu's level

All of this earphones are worth having and unique in their presentation, today if I had to choose one, I would choose EDA balanced. I had no problem with the top in any model. For me too stock tips and cables were best ones.

I have also DB1, Trn MT1 Pro, EDX Pro, but those are inferior. MT1 Pro with wide bore tips is the best of the three imo. DB1 and EDX Pro lack CRA, Eda & Cra+ level of detail. Sadly, obsolete in a few months of release


----------



## Carpet (May 29, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> Are there any other pics of these showing if the shell has that protrusion at the top or if it's flat?
> I like the shells with the protrusion such as the DQ6/Zex Pro/ASX. They seem to clip into my ear better whereas the flat ones don't feel quite as secure.


These two are the only other pictures on the KZ Official Store.

This looks like it might be semi-custom. If you look at the top IEM it looks like there may be a distorted area bellow the DD. Also possibly a notch that would be consistent with a wing along the bottom edge.






This second exploded view looks like a non-custom shape, but that's obviously simplified and the far surface doesn't show any contours.





I prefer semi-customs too and I've found the KZ/CCA ones comfortable. So fingers crossed for the next few weeks!


----------



## Carpet

jant71 said:


> Not sure if anyone has found the same but the CRA likes weak sources. My Cowon D3 single ended is not even powerful but high gain wrecks them as the bass bleeds but I put it to lower power and the bass sings and is sharp and tight and quick. Only from memory but in the same low power state the CRA bass is a step better than DQ6 bass. Of course we have our own recipes so devices and tips differ.  CRA Still king for BT with it's bass reach and quality in lower power conditions and BT cuts treble so the CRA treble adds back the right amount to make it work. Might try the ESX.


I found CRA was pretty good off a phone. People I've given them to have really enjoyed them, and only had a phone to use as a source. Granted they only had included earbuds that came with phone or cheaper BT earbuds to compare them to. Does trying to lure more people down the rabbit-hole make me a bad person?


----------



## InvisibleInk

Carpet said:


> Does trying to lure more people down the rabbit-hole make me a bad person?


----------



## countryboyhk

jant71 said:


> Not sure if anyone has found the same but the CRA likes weak sources. My Cowon D3 single ended is not even powerful but high gain wrecks them as the bass bleeds but I put it to lower power and the bass sings and is sharp and tight and quick. Only from memory but in the same low power state the CRA bass is a step better than DQ6 bass. Of course we have our own recipes so devices and tips differ.  CRA Still king for BT with it's bass reach and quality in lower power conditions and BT cuts treble so the CRA treble adds back the right amount to make it work. Might try the ESX.



Thats what I think !


----------



## jant71

countryboyhk said:


> Thats what I think !


Yep, nothing scientific and only two things that I could try it out but the bass gets a blanket thrown over it and it starts to sound like a badly matched hybrid who's dynamic isn't clean enough. Easily powered and perfect tuning for BT. Think I said it in the CCA thread a while ago that they need to make a TWS with the CRA driver.


----------



## HAMS

KZ done with hybrid for now, talking about "tecnicality" I actually prefer my old Zsn with PEQ over Zex pro. The BA gives it details without making it harsh, also better soundstage.


----------



## r31ya (May 29, 2022)

HAMS said:


> KZ done with hybrid for now, talking about "tecnicality" I actually prefer my old Zsn with PEQ over Zex pro. The BA gives it details without making it harsh, also better soundstage.


The ol ZSN still pretty damn good.
and yes, it have smoother treble than the problematic treble of Zexpro.
But i still prefer ZEXPro for that seamless clear imaging and layering which works wonders with medium-small stage that it have for band music or small orchestra music.

I simply wish they make ZEXProUltra with similar tuning but better drivers,
Smoother treble and deeper, textured bass.

KZ have experiment with DD, but so far no news on their next BA units.


----------



## jananan78

HAMS said:


> KZ done with hybrid for now, talking about "tecnicality" I actually prefer my old Zsn with PEQ over Zex pro. The BA gives it details without making it harsh, also better soundstage.


i am done with kz for now. giving a pause to the weekly releases. exploring the FH3 now...


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> The ol ZSN still pretty damn good.
> and yes, it have smoother treble than the problematic treble of Zexpro.
> But i still prefer ZEXPro for that seamless clear imaging and layering which works wonders with medium-small stage that it have for band music or small orchestra music.
> 
> ...


ZSN, ZSN pro and CA4 are still competitive and nice sounding; BA agility is hard to mimic by a DD.
.
I could not get idea of the ZSN pro X, so it became a donor for parts.

For the best KZ/CCA hybrids, ZAX and CA16 are still a really great complimentary pair for under $100. To me, ZAX with the BA bass instead of DD would be amazing; may be I will try to "Frankenstein" it one day 

I personally do not think that the driver with the rigid magnetic plate in between two magnetic coils that KZ called "EST/MST" is any competitive. Good DDs and BAs are sufficient.

A planar by KZ may be interesting, I hope after TRN's recent announcement that it is imminent


----------



## trippleed

Just want to say. This iem has the best treble implementation by kz. Extended well without creating any bothering peaks in my ears. For 10$ it's no brainer. Better tuned than CCA CRA and Moondrop Chu imo.


----------



## r31ya

How you manage to get that at $10?
I was weigthing on CRA+, Ultra, and ESX as all of them are at $18. ended with buying ESX.


----------



## trippleed

r31ya said:


> How you manage to get that at $10?
> I was weigthing on CRA+, Ultra, and ESX as all of them are at $18. ended with buying ESX.


At my local marketplace, they only sell it for 10$. That's why I can get it with that price. However, CRA+ is pricier than this one and it costs the same as yours at 18$


----------



## FiGuY1017

I find myself frustrated with iems because sometimes I find my self enjoying my beloved Zsr off my Coolpad phone more than my Xelento or n5005 via expensive dap, of course they aren't as refined, but man are they fun, powerful and Punchy lol.


----------



## camikeva

FiGuY1017 said:


> I find myself frustrated with iems because sometimes I find my self enjoying my beloved Zsr off my Coolpad phone more than my Xelento or n5005 via expensive dap, of course they aren't as refined, but man are they fun, powerful and Punchy lol.


Don't be frustrated.  You are in a good place.  If you like something, just enjoy it.  That's what this hobby should be about.


----------



## Carpet

FiGuY1017 said:


> I find myself frustrated with iems because sometimes I find my self enjoying my beloved Zsr off my Coolpad phone more than my Xelento or n5005 via expensive dap, of course they aren't as refined, but man are they fun, powerful and Punchy lol.



Some people's take on this hobby seems to be: "learning to be unsatisfied".

Perfection is a concept, not the latest $xxxx IEM.

We all have different preferences, so our ideals aren't the same.

What you hate, someone else will love (and vice versa).

Spending more money doesn't make you a better audiophile, what it makes you, is poorer!

Seriously, why are you reading this, when you could be listening to music?


----------



## BlackspeedF355 (Jun 3, 2022)

KZ VX10 I've had em about two weeks and they're very good at playing music, much better than the Sony or Bose I had before but they suck as communication devices.

They remind me a lot of my ZS10 I had and they get very loud but they're not nearly as sibilant who's is great for my ears.
They have massive bass extension the reaches way into the lower sub region that will shake your eardrums as if you're in a car with two 12's in the back. Yet, they're very well balanced as well. Male and females voices are clear with a lot of detail Sabrina Claudio ultra sensuous feminine voice will make you fall in love with all over again.

They provide a holographic 3d and wide stage.

I had to get two pair because the cost pair had a channel inbalance left to right but Amazon return policy is excellent.

The built in amps are mega! You can feel the music and they are very clean as with a very low noise celling. I don't get any hiss when turned all the way down.

Aesthetically they are the pro version in my opinion they fit that bill perfectly

Overall I really enjoy them. I've been waiting for a multi driver set like these for some time, do any other manufacturers produce them?

I like them so much I plan on giving them away as gifts on Christmas


----------



## FiGuY1017 (Jun 3, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Some people's take on this hobby seems to be: "learning to be unsatisfied".
> 
> Perfection is a concept, not the latest $xxxx IEM.
> 
> ...



I suppose I should of clarified what I 
really meant, alittle better, I'm pretty impressed with how my zsr sounds compared to my more expensive iems, in no way does this realization cause me a lack of sleep or enjoyment of anything


----------



## Carpet

FiGuY1017 said:


> I suppose I should of clarified what I
> really meant, alittle better, I'm pretty impressed with how my zsr sounds compared to my more expensive iems, in no way does this realization cause me a lack of sleep or enjoyment of anything


I wasn't criticizing, I agree with you! Cheap stuff, that's fun to listen to, is a win/win. For your ears and your wallet!


----------



## FiGuY1017

Carpet said:


> I wasn't criticizing, I agree with you! Cheap stuff, that's fun to listen to, is a win/win. For your ears and your wallet!


My apologies, and along those lines as well, I'm not convinced my Shanling M6 21 is any better sounding than my phone.


----------



## gael

I suppose it is too early to ask for KZ ESX impressions? Curious of how that 12mm driver performs.


----------



## jant71

gael said:


> I suppose it is too early to ask for KZ ESX impressions? Curious of how that 12mm driver performs.


Think so. I didn't find any impressions. A new pic though...




Guess you get a little coin.


----------



## Noteblue

gael said:


> I suppose it is too early to ask for KZ ESX impressions? Curious of how that 12mm driver performs.


Mine left today for Italy.
I didn’t find any reviews, so i bought them 🙃


----------



## RikudouGoku

jant71 said:


> Think so. I didn't find any impressions. A new pic though...
> 
> Guess you get a little coin.


Graph is up on ianfann:
https://ianfann.squig.link/?share=Harman_2019_Target,KZ_ESX,KZ_DQ6S


----------



## Jansvast

Ian so far stated that it was very bassy


----------



## Carpet

RikudouGoku said:


> Graph is up on ianfann:
> https://ianfann.squig.link/?share=Harman_2019_Target,KZ_ESX,KZ_DQ6S


Well it graphs similar to the CRA+, EDA Bass, Mele, BL-03, Meteor and TA1 Max. Not a disaster so far. Come on Ian, get listening!


----------



## r31ya

Apparently
The superthin used in cra and eda is not quite 100% improvement when they tuned to bl03 graph in eda bass.
The result was cleaner bass, more extended treble, but lacking in that lush mid that bl03 berry driver gives.

I wonder how this new liquid crystal driver going to work with similar tuning.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> Apparently
> The superthin used in cra and eda is not quite 100% improvement when they tuned to bl03 graph in eda bass.
> The result was cleaner bass, more extended treble, but lacking in that lush mid that bl03 berry driver gives.
> 
> I wonder how this new liquid crystal driver going to work with similar tuning.


Mine's shipped, I'll know in about 3 weeks.


----------



## r31ya (Jun 8, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Mine's shipped, I'll know in about 3 weeks.


mine have stuck store for over a week.
So far Ianfann and vortex review impression is pretty good.


----------



## PKTK

MacAttack7 said:


> Are there any other pics of these showing if the shell has that protrusion at the top or if it's flat?
> I like the shells with the protrusion such as the DQ6/Zex Pro/ASX. They seem to clip into my ear better whereas the flat ones don't feel quite as secure.




this is a screenshot fromunboxing video on yt.


----------



## PKTK

PKTK said:


> this is a screenshot fromunboxing video on yt.


it is flat, no fin like in zex pro or dq6s.


----------



## SartWaiting (Jun 8, 2022)

(deleted) see below. 
Help me: how i can delete wrong post?


----------



## SartWaiting

r31ya said:


> So far Ianfann and vortex review is pretty good.


Can you give link on review? I'm find FR graph only.


----------



## r31ya

SartWaiting said:


> Can you give link on review? I'm find FR graph only.


its still on impression discussion on KZ discord
people are impressed on bass quality and treble quality brought by the new driver.


----------



## countryboyhk

ESX already sounds good out of the box, smooth highs, upfront vocals, great soundstage, a little bit more bass.  This should be the best imaging DD I've heard so far ( EDX Pro, CRA, EDA Balanced ). Very mature tuning


----------



## DynamicEars

countryboyhk said:


> ESX already sounds good out of the box, smooth highs, upfront vocals, great soundstage, a little bit more bass.  This should be the best imaging DD I've heard so far ( EDX Pro, CRA, EDA Balanced ). Very mature tuning



Are those real vents on side and top of the shell? The shell itself looked beautiful, 12mm DD means more air. Made me want to break my oath and buy another KZ, ugh


----------



## r31ya

DynamicEars said:


> Are those real vents on side and top of the shell? The shell itself looked beautiful, 12mm DD means more air. Made me want to break my oath and buy another KZ, ugh








Image from Vortex and HKS1104
The shell is surprisingly better than the promo image suggest.


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> Image from Vortex and HKS1104
> The shell is surprisingly better than the promo image suggest.



Can't tell if they are real vents unless someone who own ESX doing a test. but anyway, great shell, great design, great FR, great driver hopefully (12mm DD is same size with Sony Z1R's DD). I'm camping here waiting for early impressions, curious about the bass.


----------



## countryboyhk

DynamicEars said:


> Are those real vents on side and top of the shell? The shell itself looked beautiful, 12mm DD means more air. Made me want to break my oath and buy another KZ, ugh


Not a pro, but the vents looks real to me, the sounds is quite airy and transparent !


----------



## DynamicEars

countryboyhk said:


> Not a pro, but the vents looks real to me, the sounds is quite airy and transparent !



Can you do me a favor looking at tip of the nozzle? are they using paper / nylon damper on nozzle or graph are raw performances from driver? Thanks


----------



## countryboyhk

DynamicEars said:


> Can you do me a favor looking at tip of the nozzle? are they using paper / nylon damper on nozzle or graph are raw performances from driver? Thanks



Looks like nylon to me !


----------



## DynamicEars

countryboyhk said:


> Looks like nylon to me !



Thanks, that damper made bass bloated and smear because of bad airflow. Happens all the time. I can't blame chinese manufacturer though since this is the easiest and cheapest and reliable constant method to get smooth upper mids-trebles. But actually it has major drawback that blocks the airflow from dynamic driver. Easier to mod though rather than 5khz edge on CRA


----------



## SartWaiting

countryboyhk said:


> Looks like nylon to me !


Can you measure the damper diameter (4,2 or 4,5)?


----------



## countryboyhk

SartWaiting said:


> Can you measure the damper diameter (4,2 or 4,5)?



4,2


----------



## northernsound

I'm looking at the EDA Balanced, I notice that the prices on Aliexpress varies quite a bit. KZs Official Store wants 26.03 usd with mic, vat included. Another store wants 18.75 usd with mic and vat included. It has 16.5K followers and 97.8% positive feedback. What do you guys think, can I trust that this is the original product? 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...c16547856289621144eb454!12000028865658707!sea


----------



## r31ya (Jun 9, 2022)

northernsound said:


> I'm looking at the EDA Balanced, I notice that the prices on Aliexpress varies quite a bit. KZs Official Store wants 26.03 usd with mic, vat included. Another store wants 18.75 usd with mic and vat included. It has 16.5K followers and 97.8% positive feedback. What do you guys think, can I trust that this is the original product?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004352369853.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6555cc4e2gUrT4&algo_pvid=d75cc34b-8848-47af-8b80-4fd34ab0af56&algo_exp_id=d75cc34b-8848-47af-8b80-4fd34ab0af56-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028865658707"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!!17.7!!!!!@2100bb4c16547856289621144eb454!12000028865658707!sea


Standard EDA balanced price is at $19 in official KZ shop,
you should be able to find something a bit cheaper, and 18.75 is pretty reasonable price.
---
Also

KZ ESX review
(1 Liquid Crystal Driver, $19)


----------



## Steve Dave (Jun 9, 2022)

northernsound said:


> I'm looking at the EDA Balanced, I notice that the prices on Aliexpress varies quite a bit. KZs Official Store wants 26.03 usd with mic, vat included. Another store wants 18.75 usd with mic and vat included. It has 16.5K followers and 97.8% positive feedback. What do you guys think, can I trust that this is the original product?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004352369853.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6555cc4e2gUrT4&algo_pvid=d75cc34b-8848-47af-8b80-4fd34ab0af56&algo_exp_id=d75cc34b-8848-47af-8b80-4fd34ab0af56-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000028865658707"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!!17.7!!!!!@2100bb4c16547856289621144eb454!12000028865658707!sea


As someone who isn't sure what sound characteristics I prefer yet I've been keeping an eye on this store selling the EDA 3 pack, waiting for someone to cry scam but even with the very low price, which includes free Aliexpress Standard Delivery if selected, they've had 165 orders and no bad reviews (for the EDA that is).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004212386509.html

As I was looking into the store's other items for red flags I noticed this listing which has the EDA Balanced extremely cheap.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004379504421.html

I'm not recommending them as I may be missing something more experienced Ali buyers would notice, just giving you something to consider/confuse matters.


----------



## northernsound

r31ya said:


> Standard EDA balanced price is at $19 in official KZ shop,
> you should be able to find something a bit cheaper, and 18.75 is pretty reasonable price.
> ---
> Also
> ...



With mic and vat to my country (Sweden) it's 26.03 usd from the KZ Official Shop. I'll check the reviews out.


----------



## Carpet

Steve Dave said:


> As someone who isn't sure what sound characteristics I prefer yet I've been keeping an eye on this store selling the EDA 3 pack, waiting for someone to cry scam but even with the very low price, which includes free Aliexpress Standard Delivery if selected, they've had 165 orders and no bad reviews (for the EDA that is).
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004212386509.html
> 
> As I was looking into the store's other items for red flags I noticed this listing which has the EDA Balanced extremely cheap.
> ...



Alitools is a useful plugin for chrome, that takes into account a few other things than just the feedback ratings. Also does price history which gives a better idea whether any claimed discount is real (or how low it is likely to go during sales). Ratings on AliExpress can be faked, be very wary of perfect scores, especially if there are no reviews, minimal  or very similar comments. Exactly the same pattern in number of sales is also a giveaway. So if sales of many items are the same low number particularly with minimal reviews be suspicious. Length of time the trader has been operating is also valuable, scammers will accumulate bad reviews! Pay careful attention to top sales as well. Large numbers of sales for cheap and/or unrelated items, may then be accompanied by a few expensive items with few or no sales and no feedback. Also be wary of bait and switch. The clickbait price may just be for a cable or case etc., the IEM is another option for a much higher price. Lastly check the postage, cheap prices are usually loaded with higher shipping charges. Tracked shipping is safer but there are scams that just provide fake tracking numbers (usually for another order). So be very wary when you are told an order you still haven't received, is suddenly announced to have been delivered! I have never had any problems with AliExpress Standard Shipping so always choose that in preference. E-Packet has been okay as well, usually for smaller items. Always be suspicious and the regular warning "If it looks too good to be true, it's probably is".


----------



## northernsound (Jun 10, 2022)

r31ya said:


> Standard EDA balanced price is at $19 in official KZ shop,
> you should be able to find something a bit cheaper, and 18.75 is pretty reasonable price.
> ---
> Also
> ...



I've checked the reviews now and also the graph I've included the link to (EDA Balanced vs EDA Hi-res vs KZ ESX vs Harman 2019). I think the EDA Balanced is more of what I'm looking for at the moment, the high-res might be even more what I'm looking for relative the balanced but that one seems to not be on sale as a single product so I think I might order the balanced. Thank you for the links.

https://ianfann.squig.link/?share=Harman_2019_Target,KZ_ESX,KZ_EDA_(SILVER),KZ_EDA_(GREEN)


----------



## northernsound

I apologize if this is old news for all of you hifi-vets but has anyone here seen this video from the user "Hi-Fri Audio" on youtube about KZ?

"Overly long video talking about the KZ Drama, a little overview, Crin, HBB, and more"


----------



## Steve Dave

Carpet said:


> Alitools is a useful plugin for chrome, that takes into account a few other things than just the feedback ratings. Also does price history which gives a better idea whether any claimed discount is real (or how low it is likely to go during sales). Ratings on AliExpress can be faked, be very wary of perfect scores, especially if there are no reviews, minimal  or very similar comments. Exactly the same pattern in number of sales is also a giveaway. So if sales of many items are the same low number particularly with minimal reviews be suspicious. Length of time the trader has been operating is also valuable, scammers will accumulate bad reviews! Pay careful attention to top sales as well. Large numbers of sales for cheap and/or unrelated items, may then be accompanied by a few expensive items with few or no sales and no feedback. Also be wary of bait and switch. The clickbait price may just be for a cable or case etc., the IEM is another option for a much higher price. Lastly check the postage, cheap prices are usually loaded with higher shipping charges. Tracked shipping is safer but there are scams that just provide fake tracking numbers (usually for another order). So be very wary when you are told an order you still haven't received, is suddenly announced to have been delivered! I have never had any problems with AliExpress Standard Shipping so always choose that in preference. E-Packet has been okay as well, usually for smaller items. Always be suspicious and the regular warning "If it looks too good to be true, it's probably is".


Thanks very much for that, a lot of useful information there.
Yeah, that bait and switch thing has made sorting search results by price useless at times.


----------



## punpun (Jun 11, 2022)

Steve Dave said:


> As someone who isn't sure what sound characteristics I prefer yet I've been keeping an eye on this store selling the EDA 3 pack, waiting for someone to cry scam but even with the very low price, which includes free Aliexpress Standard Delivery if selected, they've had 165 orders and no bad reviews (for the EDA that is).
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004212386509.html
> 
> As I was looking into the store's other items for red flags I noticed this listing which has the EDA Balanced extremely cheap.
> ...


I was also worried at first but I decided to order from that store. I chose shipping from France so they should come next week. The tracking number they gave me looks very legit and the courier I would expect coming from an european warehouse. I'll report back later.


----------



## Carpet

Steve Dave said:


> Thanks very much for that, a lot of useful information there.
> Yeah, that bait and switch thing has made sorting search results by price useless at times.


Sorting by sales is often better than price. Assuming that most buyers won't pick the worst option. Ticking the free shipping can be useful too.


----------



## northernsound

punpun said:


> I was also worried at first but I decided to order from that store. I chose shipping from France so they should come next week. The tracking number they gave me looks very legit and the courier I would expect coming from an european warehouse. I'll report back later.


I'm looking forward to their arrival, the price is really good so I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## Sebulr

My beloved ZS10 pros glare blues have worn out at the pin side due to crumbling connectors, so I have replaced them with some CCA C10 with snazzy black stripes.




They do not  have a ba in the nozzle, and sound less harsh than my ZS10 pro. These will be my new side sleeper headphones along with my blon bl-03. They also come with the silver cable which is a bonus. I might be switching back to my tripowin zonie cable though, as I like the feel of them. 
The nozzles are angled slightly differently to the ZS10 pro although it is quite difficult to get a decent photo of this. They angle to the earphone body is more square in the CCA C10.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 12, 2022)

Sebulr said:


> My beloved ZS10 pros glare blues have worn out at the pin side due to crumbling connectors, so I have replaced them with some CCA C10 with snazzy black stripes.
> 
> They do not  have a ba in the nozzle, and sound less harsh than my ZS10 pro. These will be my new side sleeper headphones along with my blon bl-03. They also come with the silver cable which is a bonus. I might be switching back to my tripowin zonie cable though, as I like the feel of them.
> The nozzles are angled slightly differently to the ZS10 pro although it is quite difficult to get a decent photo of this. They angle to the earphone body is more square in the CCA C10.


Great to hear you like them!
They are C10 pro not C10 (a gently sounding hybrid) or more recent CA10 (all BA) I know, I know


----------



## northernsound (Jun 12, 2022)

punpun said:


> I was also worried at first but I decided to order from that store. I chose shipping from France so they should come next week. The tracking number they gave me looks very legit and the courier I would expect coming from an european warehouse. I'll report back later.


Here are soundcomparisons between the KZ Eda Balanced and CCA CRA+, Tripowin Lea and Moondrop Chu. I felt these were the most interesting comparisons for me to listen to. There are several others on the YouTubechannel. To me the CCA CRA+ indeed feels a little bit too busy and intense for what I'm looking for right now and it just made me more interested in the EDA Balanced. From what I'm hearing I also prefer the Eda Balanced over the Tripowin Lea. To me the Moondrop Chu is just ever so slightly a tad bit too lean and a tad bit too shouty for my ears. The detail retreaval and clarity seems great in the Chu though. I'm listening through my TinHifi T2 hooked up to my Poco F3. All sound-enhancements and equalizing are of course turned off. There are several more soundcomparisons with EDA Balanced and also between many other IEMs on that YouTubechannel.


----------



## punpun

northernsound said:


> Here are soundcomparisons between the KZ Eda Balanced and CCA CRA+, Tripowin Lea and Moondrop Chu. I felt these were the most interesting comparisons for me to listen to. There are several others on the YouTubechannel. To me the CCA CRA+ indeed feels a little bit too busy and intense for what I'm looking for right now and it just made me more interested in the EDA Balanced. From what I'm hearing I also prefer the Eda Balanced over the Tripowin Lea. To me the Moondrop Chu is just ever so slightly a tad bit too lean and a tad bit too shouty for my ears. The detail retreaval and clarity seems great in the Chu though. I'm listening through my TinHifi T2 hooked up to my Poco F3. All sound-enhancements and equalizing are of course turned off. There are several more soundcomparisons with EDA Balanced and also between many other IEMs on that YouTubechannel.



It should be nice.. The EDA is supposed to be a replacement for the CCA CRA for me, because mine broke, unfortunately. The speedy driver (same in CRA) and tight bass, although not as "rumbly", is very good for electronic music in my opinion, because it never gets convoluted. ESX caught my interest too but ill try the EDA first, if only it arrives from that store. 😁


----------



## northernsound

punpun said:


> It should be nice.. The EDA is supposed to be a replacement for the CCA CRA for me, because mine broke, unfortunately. The speedy driver (same in CRA) and tight bass, although not as "rumbly", is very good for electronic music in my opinion, because it never gets convoluted. ESX caught my interest too but ill try the EDA first, if only it arrives from that store. 😁


I ordered the balanced one. If it doesn't arrive I'll get my money back from aliexpress which I've always gotten before and looking at all the reviews of the EDA-3pack from that store it should be fine.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Both CRA and EDA balanced offer great values. CRA under $12 and EDA pack if 3 under $24 are amazing deals to me. I like both about equally.
I psychologically could not get CRA+ at more than double the price of CRA bit now at $20 or so - should be competitive.
My CRA+ and ESX are on their way just for the fun to compare


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 13, 2022)

I am not sure why was not mentioned here in relation to all recent accusations against KZ:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2839232659710678/

I am really a bit sad that Crin seems to surrender to the "crowd".
All drivers were connected, and resistors less than 50 Ohm are not unreasonable.
I was really worried that ZEX pro would be tamed in treble - and it is not at all to my ears.

The same with DQ6 (not DQ6s that I would not touch with a pole) - most BA-like DD to my ears.

The measurements of treble drivers seem to be inadequate, as well as EST drivers may be overrated altogether.


----------



## bhazard

EDX Ultra came in today.
First impression: Fun! Needs a midbass cut and a 6-8kHz treble boost and then it truly shines.
Between the EDA Balanced, CRA+, and this, I'm not mad at any of them. Lots of value in all three, and minor EQ tweaks take them all a price range up in SQ.


----------



## Carpet

Sebulr said:


> My beloved ZS10 pros glare blues have worn out at the pin side due to crumbling connectors, so I have replaced them with some CCA C10 with snazzy black stripes.
> 
> They do not  have a ba in the nozzle, and sound less harsh than my ZS10 pro. These will be my new side sleeper headphones along with my blon bl-03. They also come with the silver cable which is a bonus. I might be switching back to my tripowin zonie cable though, as I like the feel of them.
> The nozzles are angled slightly differently to the ZS10 pro although it is quite difficult to get a decent photo of this. They angle to the earphone body is more square in the CCA C10.



Those are the CCA C10 pro  (not the C10). I agree with you about the zonie cable, they are up there with the NiceHCK 16 core cables for comfort!


bhazard said:


> EDX Ultra came in today.
> First impression: Fun! Needs a midbass cut and a 6-8kHz treble boost and then it truly shines.
> Between the EDA Balanced, CRA+, and this, I'm not mad at any of them. Lots of value in all three, and minor EQ tweaks take them all a price range up in SQ.



What's funny is that my preference is warm, with a mid-bass boost  and slightly rolled off treble. The EDX sounds perfect! 

Unfortunately mine haven't made it out of China yet.


----------



## northernsound

PhonoPhi said:


> I am not sure why was not mentioned here in relation to all recent accusations against KZ:
> https://m.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2839232659710678/
> 
> I am really a bit sad that Crin seems to surrender to the "crowd".
> ...


Very interesting. Thank you for the link.


----------



## punpun

punpun said:


> I was also worried at first but I decided to order from that store. I chose shipping from France so they should come next week. The tracking number they gave me looks very legit and the courier I would expect coming from an european warehouse. I'll report back later.


I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it looks like I got fooled. I felt that there could be a chance they will still try to ship it from China, it's very rare to see recently released IEM's in European warehouses... The tracking is not moving at all, the courier is still waiting for the package to arrive from the seller, while the ETA is on June 15. I'll still wait for this week to end, after that I will have to place a dispute because they have charged me extra for the shipping. Just scummy of them to even offer this shipping option.


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## northernsound (Jun 14, 2022)

punpun said:


> I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it looks like I got fooled. I felt that there could be a chance they will still try to ship it from China, it's very rare to see recently released IEM's in European warehouses... The tracking is not moving at all, the courier is still waiting for the package to arrive from the seller, while the ETA is on June 15. I'll still wait for this week to end, after that I will have to place a dispute because they have charged me extra for the shipping. Just scummy of them to even offer this shipping option.


I think that's a good idea, to start a dispute when they've arrived. Mine is ordered from from China but not yet shipped. The store has gotten mixed reviews regarding shipping practices, but good regarding the kz products so hopefully you'll at least be happy with the iem when it arrives.


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## Steve Dave

punpun said:


> I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it looks like I got fooled. I felt that there could be a chance they will still try to ship it from China, it's very rare to see recently released IEM's in European warehouses... The tracking is not moving at all, the courier is still waiting for the package to arrive from the seller, while the ETA is on June 15. I'll still wait for this week to end, after that I will have to place a dispute because they have charged me extra for the shipping. Just scummy of them to even offer this shipping option.


Sorry to hear that.
I've had the same thing happen to me when I bought my EDX Pro (different supplier).
They stated it was to be shipped locally but it took the same amount of time as it would from China and package was covered with the usual Chinese customs declaration documents.
The only difference being it was a local courier service who delivered it to my door instead of the regular postal service.
I really can't understand why they did that as they didn't charge much more than Ali Standard delivery and the price of the courier would surely have eaten all their profit margin.


----------



## punpun

Steve Dave said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> I've had the same thing happen to me when I bought my EDX Pro (different supplier).
> They stated it was to be shipped locally but it took the same amount of time as it would from China and package was covered with the usual Chinese customs declaration documents.
> The only difference being it was a local courier service who delivered it to my door instead of the regular postal service.
> I really can't understand why they did that as they didn't charge much more than Ali Standard delivery and the price of the courier would surely have eaten all their profit margin.


Exactly the same situation. Tracking is from a local courier. Still doesn't make sense to me because the post office here delivers smaller packages to my door either way...


----------



## Carpet

punpun said:


> I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it looks like I got fooled. I felt that there could be a chance they will still try to ship it from China, it's very rare to see recently released IEM's in European warehouses... The tracking is not moving at all, the courier is still waiting for the package to arrive from the seller, while the ETA is on June 15. I'll still wait for this week to end, after that I will have to place a dispute because they have charged me extra for the shipping. Just scummy of them to even offer this shipping option.


I've had delays recently too. China has been badly affected by Omicron. Including Shenzhen, which is where most of their technology industries are based. You can message the seller, often that will get results, particularly if you are repeatedly doing business with them. Reputable sellers don't offer insanely low prices, but they are more reliable.

During sales you can still find good discounts from bigger sellers though. Never believe the inflated MSRP stores claim to be discounting from.


----------



## r31ya

For the past two month, my office importer dude basically says not to import from china as lockdowns have its effect with logistics. it will get stuck.
I bought from KZ official store which usually take a few days before it get shipped but this took to basically the last day of "store processing"


----------



## northernsound

Now my EDA Balanced is shipped, everything's looking normal.


----------



## requal (Jun 15, 2022)

Today I have received Edx Ultra. First impression aren't very special. It's definitely continuation of EDX series.. which is too bassy, and has too simplified highs. Only upgrade over CRA imo is soundstage, which is bigger. Mass of bass and highs without definition are not my cup of tea.. I'm bit disappointed this time.

 I would rate them, in this clone wars, like this:

1# CRA+ , Eda balanced (safer highs then Cra+ for sensitive persons)
2# CRA og.
3# EDX ULTRA, TRN MT1
...
I'm waiting for ESX.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> For the past two month, my office importer dude basically says not to import from china as lockdowns have its effect with logistics. it will get stuck.
> I bought from KZ official store which usually take a few days before it get shipped but this took to basically the last day of "store processing"


I had an order arrive today that took 105 days! Strangely enough I'd written that one off. Opted for a cheaper carrier. How was I to know they were using frogs duct-taped to the package?


----------



## requal

Maybe it's my unit, but I think EDX Ultra is even inferior then EDX Pro. Ultra has even more bass, more colored overall sound and splasher not refined treble.


----------



## ChristianM

Anybody have any idea if the driver in ESX is the same or similar as in the T3 Plus? Description of ESX says it's Liquid Crystal and T3 Plus says Liquid Crystal Polymer.
I have T3 Plus and I really love the sound of it but it gets uncomfortable after an hour or so due to it's fin. Reviews of ESX are very good and I'm selling my T3 Plus and thinking about getting ESX on Aliexpress summer sale if ESX sounds same or close to T3 Plus. Thanks


----------



## r31ya

ChristianM said:


> Anybody have any idea if the driver in ESX is the same or similar as in the T3 Plus? Description of ESX says it's Liquid Crystal and T3 Plus says Liquid Crystal Polymer.
> I have T3 Plus and I really love the sound of it but it gets uncomfortable after an hour or so due to it's fin. Reviews of ESX are very good and I'm selling my T3 Plus and thinking about getting ESX on Aliexpress summer sale if ESX sounds same or close to T3 Plus. Thanks


considering the price, i don't think so. Anyhow, KZ ESX 12mm Drivers next to the ol 10mm courtesy of KZ discords


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## XerusKun (Jun 18, 2022)

r31ya said:


> considering the price, i don't think so. Anyhow, KZ ESX 12mm Drivers next to the ol 10mm courtesy of KZ discords


That's not the ESX drivers, rather its the ZES one.




Different DD holes though.


----------



## Carpet

XerusKun said:


> That's not the ESX drivers, rather its the ZES one.
> 
> 
> Different DD holes though.


It would be strange if the driver in the ZES was LCP, and they didn't mention it!


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## r31ya (Jun 19, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> That's not the ESX drivers, rather its the ZES one.
> 
> 
> Different DD holes though.


aah, i was wondering whats the membrane difference


----------



## ChristianM

So LCP & LC drivers are the same or different? If they're the same then I believe ESX sound close to T3 Plus (depends on tunning) right?


----------



## baskingshark

ChristianM said:


> So LCP & LC drivers are the same or different? If they're the same then I believe ESX sound close to T3 Plus (depends on tunning) right?



The driver type/material or even driver count and driver brand isn't as important as the tuning and implementation. I've seen some brands using so-called gourmet ingredients like Knowles/Sonion multi drivers, but the sound is crap. And we have some TOTL companies (cough cough campfire & JH) using Bellsings and they sound fine.

2 years ago every CHIFI brand was riding on the beryllium driver (which some were shown to be fake marketing), last year was the LCP hype, this year seems to be the planar hype. So the LCP driver seems a bit "outdated" in 2022 in terms of hype, but honestly, even if they claim that it is LCP, someone can open the shell to expose the drivers, but who has a spectrometer to prove that the company's claims are legit? Most of these driver material claims are probably marketing gimmicks to some extent.


----------



## kalo86

Hello, I'm comparing the ZAX with the ESX. 
The iem's are completely different. 

Dap: iBasso DX220 with AMP8-EX. 
Cable: balanced Tripowin

ZAX is more balanced, no boomy basses, huge soundstage, microdetails, separation, nice puch of the bass. 

ESX emphasizes the lower region, the bass is more present but maybe less precise, medium and high are way less detailed if compared to the ZAX. Soundstage is good but not wide as the ZAX. Air between instruments and separation is not good as the bigger sister ZAX. 

Now I'm waiting the burn-in, maybe something changes on the 12mm dynamic driver? 

If you have also the ZAX and ESX, it would be nice if you can share your experience and first thoughts. 

Best regards, 
kalo86


----------



## PhonoPhi

kalo86 said:


> Hello, I'm comparing the ZAX with the ESX.
> The iem's are completely different.
> 
> Dap: iBasso DX220 with AMP8-EX.
> ...


I do have ZAX and ESX (got one few days ago) - would not dare to compare them now - different beasts, different categories 

ZAX would be my ideal IEM with the BA bass instead of its DD.

I am trying to compare ESX now with CRA, EDA set (largerly balanced), HZ Mirror and Aria. Hopefully, CRA+ would come soon.

So far, I like ESX. The bass subsided after few hours (still there but not overwhelming) and overall impressions are that of clear and transparent, though Mirror is more detailed in direct comparison, and CRA is more agile, but more brittle.

I will try to compare more and organize my impressions in few days


----------



## kalo86

PhonoPhi said:


> I do have ZAX and ESX (got one few days ago) - would not dare to compare them now - different beasts, different categories
> 
> ZAX would be my ideal IEM with the BA bass instead of its DD.
> 
> ...


Also you find the ZAX better even if the price is completely different?


----------



## G777

kalo86 said:


> Hello, I'm comparing the ZAX with the ESX.
> The iem's are completely different.
> 
> Dap: iBasso DX220 with AMP8-EX.
> ...


The ZAX has more upper mids and treble than the ESX, which should help with detail perception. ESX has a more laid-back tuning.


----------



## PhonoPhi

kalo86 said:


> Also you find the ZAX better even if the price is completely different?


It is hard for DD to compete with BA's upper mids and treble, and ZAX offers very good implementation of them to me. The bass in ZAX is more present/ample compared to ZSX and bass BAs, and I personally prefer the latter.

For a single DD - coherency and organic presentation are the preferred features to many, and there budget multidrivers are in a difficult position to compete.

So far, I enjoy ESX and the fun of comparison with other DDs.


----------



## kalo86

ESX, for the price, it's a nice iem. 
For more critical listening (orchestral tracks for example) I will use ZAX. 
For movies and random tasks, ESX is more than enough. 
Anyway, the 12mm DD is not so miraculous as I thought.


----------



## Carpet (Jun 19, 2022)

kalo86 said:


> ESX, for the price, it's a nice iem.
> For more critical listening (orchestral tracks for example) I will use ZAX.
> For movies and random tasks, ESX is more than enough.
> Anyway, the 12mm DD is not so miraculous as I thought.


It sounds like the ESX is closer to the CA16, which had more prominent mid-bass, less aggressive pina gain and smoother treble. Both the ZAX and the CA16 are $60. It shows how fast things are progressing. KZ/CCA are releasing single DDs at $20, that are close  to releases at three times the price, from two years ago.


----------



## PhonoPhi

kalo86 said:


> ESX, for the price, it's a nice iem.
> For more critical listening (orchestral tracks for example) I will use ZAX.
> For movies and random tasks, ESX is more than enough.
> Anyway, the 12mm DD is not so miraculous as I thought.


No such magic in Aria as well.
The resolution of BAs will be much- much costly in single DDs.
So it makes a good case, when 2-3 IEMs can one lot of experience and enjoyment more cost-effectively than a single ultracapable IEM.


----------



## countryboyhk

Carpet said:


> It sounds like the ESX is closer to the CA16, which had more prominent mid-bass, less aggressive pina gain and smoother treble. Both the ZAX and the CA16 are $60. It shows how fast things are progressing. KZ/CCA are releasing single DDs at $20, that are close  to releases at three times the price, from two years ago.



CA16 has thicker and warmer mids to me, I have a 150hr burn-in ESX, which is more airy, elevated highs, but smooth overall, soundstage is wide.  I like ESX over CRA, it's just more refined and smooth.


----------



## punpun

punpun said:


> I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it looks like I got fooled. I felt that there could be a chance they will still try to ship it from China, it's very rare to see recently released IEM's in European warehouses... The tracking is not moving at all, the courier is still waiting for the package to arrive from the seller, while the ETA is on June 15. I'll still wait for this week to end, after that I will have to place a dispute because they have charged me extra for the shipping. Just scummy of them to even offer this shipping option.


I take my words back. They are in my country already and only took one week. That is extremely fast if it was coming from China. I should receive them tommorow. 😅


----------



## Carpet

countryboyhk said:


> CA16 has thicker and warmer mids to me, I have a 150hr burn-in ESX, which is more airy, elevated highs, but smooth overall, soundstage is wide.  I like ESX over CRA, it's just more refined and smooth.



I'm still waiting on ESX. New Zealand isn't exactly the best place to see new releases early.


----------



## ChristianM

Does ESX also have typical KZ house sound or is it different? I had 4 KZ (zsn pro, zs10 pro, zsx & dq6) and they all sound very similar like boomy/boxy bass, metallic/artificial treble (cymbals).
I have T3 Plus and it has different sound, I mean it has softness in all frequencies, I don't what words do I use but if you have T3 Plus and KZs you'd understand. The only problem I have with T3 Plus is the comfort and that's why I'm looking for a new IEM with similar sound.
The funny thing with T3 Plus is that the left earpiece is tiny bit smaller than the right earpiece, both earphones are not exactly the same size and it cost me $50. Never saw this kind of imperfection in KZs or my TRN CS2.


----------



## XerusKun

ChristianM said:


> Does ESX also have typical KZ house sound or is it different? I had 4 KZ (zsn pro, zs10 pro, zsx & dq6) and they all sound very similar like boomy/boxy bass, metallic/artificial treble (cymbals).
> I have T3 Plus and it has different sound, I mean it has softness in all frequencies, I don't what words do I use but if you have T3 Plus and KZs you'd understand. The only problem I have with T3 Plus is the comfort and that's why I'm looking for a new IEM with similar sound.
> The funny thing with T3 Plus is that the left earpiece is tiny bit smaller than the right earpiece, both earphones are not exactly the same size and it cost me $50. Never saw this kind of imperfection in KZs or my TRN CS2.


Newer KZ IEM specially the DD releases doesn't have that metallic treble anymore and boxy sound. So far out of the newer KZs I have, EDA Trio, CRA+, EDX Ultra, ESX..ESX is the safest tuned and has the most likeable signature, the bass may be too much in some tracks, but you just need a widebore tips like Kbear07 to counter that. Imho, all KZ iem should include a tips that is somehow similar to Kbear07 or just straight up widebore tips, the KZ starline/stock tips degrades the overall sound quality in my experience.


----------



## kalo86

XerusKun said:


> Newer KZ IEM specially the DD releases doesn't have that metallic treble anymore and boxy sound. So far out of the newer KZs I have, EDA Trio, CRA+, EDX Ultra, ESX..ESX is the safest tuned and has the most likeable signature, the bass may be too much in some tracks, but you just need a widebore tips like Kbear07 to counter that. Imho, all KZ iem should include a tips that is somehow similar to Kbear07 or just straight up widebore tips, the KZ starline/stock tips degrades the overall sound quality in my experience.


Removing the mesh from the iem housing of the ESX improves the clarity. 
It is glued, so the trial is possible without any damage.


----------



## XerusKun

kalo86 said:


> Removing the mesh from the iem housing of the ESX improves the clarity.
> It is glued, so the trial is possible without any damage.


Isn't that filter used for reducing the upper midrange and lower treble? Most likely removing that will increase the pinna gain region making the sound somehow clear but with the caveat of making the vocals shouty?..hows the vocals when you remove it?


----------



## XerusKun

kalo86 said:


> Removing the mesh from the iem housing of the ESX improves the clarity.
> It is glued, so the trial is possible without any damage.


Man I just tried your mod and measured them with and without the filter, bruh it sounds more amazing now..Clearer, bass isn't overpowering anymore....what have you just suggested, this is just too good.


----------



## kalo86

XerusKun said:


> Man I just tried your mod and measured them with and without the filter, bruh it sounds more amazing now..Clearer, bass isn't overpowering anymore....what have you just suggested, this is just too good.
> 
> ​


My ears are golden 😂😂😂


----------



## XerusKun

kalo86 said:


> My ears are golden 😂😂😂


The niche thing here is even if the pinna gain is increased by about 4 dB, the vocals isn't shouty whatsoever, its just cleaner and more transparent than stock..man my ears are very happi now.


----------



## kalo86

Yes, I noticed that the mesh is too tight, dumping a lot the high frequencies because they have a lot of energy! Removing the mesh, the sound has more clarity 🔊😁


----------



## rambomhtri

WTH!?

I just received the KZ Z3 TWS, which clearly KZ states are aptX HD compatible, that's the reason I bought them, and this is what happens:




I have a KZ BT 5.0 cable and it automatically switches to aptX HD, so it's not my smartphone, which has a SD 865 and supports everything.


----------



## ChristianM

Are you guys using the stock tips with ESX with or without mesh?


----------



## XerusKun

ChristianM said:


> Are you guys using the stock tips with ESX with or without mesh?


I'm using mine with Kbear07, stock tips kinda degrade the sound imho. Sounds good even with filter or non.


----------



## ChristianM

XerusKun said:


> I'm using mine with Kbear07, stock tips kinda degrade the sound imho. Sounds good even with filter or non.


Alright thanks


----------



## northernsound (Jun 20, 2022)

rambomhtri said:


> WTH!?
> 
> I just received the KZ Z3 TWS, which clearly KZ states are aptX HD compatible, that's the reason I bought them, and this is what happens:
> 
> ...


*Edit*. I misread the specs of the chip so this post can be deleted.


----------



## punpun

rambomhtri said:


> WTH!?
> 
> I just received the KZ Z3 TWS, which clearly KZ states are aptX HD compatible, that's the reason I bought them, and this is what happens:
> 
> ...


Well I have checked for you, but the chipset used in Z3 (QCC3040) doesn't support AptX HD. Which can be seen here: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/application/audio/qcc30xx-series


----------



## rambomhtri (Jun 20, 2022)

punpun said:


> Well I have checked for you, but the chipset used in Z3 (QCC3040) doesn't support AptX HD. Which can be seen here: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/application/audio/qcc30xx-series












KZ announces them Z3 and SK10 Pro as aptX HD compatible.


----------



## punpun

rambomhtri said:


> KZ announces them Z3 and SK10 Pro as aptX HD compatible.


Interesting. You should contact them about this and possibly get a refund. Qualcomm lists (regular) aptX as the only codec supported.


----------



## rambomhtri

punpun said:


> Interesting. You should contact them about this and possibly get a refund. Qualcomm lists (regular) aptX as the only codec supported.


Did it a few hours ago


----------



## requal (Jun 20, 2022)

My Esx just arrived! Initially I like them much more then Ultra. ESX is also bassy, but for my ears is less v-shaped. Mids are more prominent and extension is more natural - sound is less compressed. Bigger driver was good idea. Well done 👍

Edit: Compared to the rest, it is a candidate for No.1. 
Also the previously mentioned mod may be a good idea, but I won't try it yet


----------



## ChristianM

requal said:


> My Esx just arrived! Initially I like them much more then Ultra. ESX is also bassy, but for my ears is less v-shaped. Mids are more prominent and extension is more natural - sound is less compressed. Bigger driver was good idea. Well done 👍


Please compare ESX later with other IEMs you have, KZ or else. thanks


----------



## requal (Jun 20, 2022)

ChristianM said:


> Please compare ESX later with other IEMs you have, KZ or else. thanks


I have done quick comparison. I think it could be the best one from KZ/CCA. I like it more at this moment then CRA+ and Eda balanced, but I need more time to listening.

Possibly for some quantity of treble could be not enought.

Initial results:
Eda balanced - cleaner sound, delicate, good extension.. but weaker and thinner overall

Esx (vs rest) - veiled, less extended, but bigger and more natural sound, better dynamism, this iem need to sound cleaner...

CRA plus - good midrange, clean, good extension, but could be too much for some, but like with EDA.. more compressed sound.

CRA good dynamism, less veild, but boxy sound.


----------



## Carpet

XerusKun said:


> I'm using mine with Kbear07, stock tips kinda degrade the sound imho. Sounds good even with filter or non.


You know KBEAR 07 now come in packs of 5 of the same size, same price as the mixed pack.


----------



## requal (Jun 20, 2022)

Main impressions for ESX:
They sound big, very dynamic and natural. Sound is U-shaped without being too recessed in the mid-tones.The amount of detail is satisfactory and it sounds non-aggressive. Its natural presentation is very likeable, but could be perceived as bit veiled  (not necesery disadvantage, somewhat like Blon kind of sound).

Worthy of being called anniversary earphones and best budget KZ iems in my opinion.

*I hadn't heard any positive effects of changing cables and for me stock tips were best ones


----------



## punpun (Jun 21, 2022)

Steve Dave said:


> As someone who isn't sure what sound characteristics I prefer yet I've been keeping an eye on this store selling the EDA 3 pack, waiting for someone to cry scam but even with the very low price, which includes free Aliexpress Standard Delivery if selected, they've had 165 orders and no bad reviews (for the EDA that is).
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004212386509.html
> 
> As I was looking into the store's other items for red flags I noticed this listing which has the EDA Balanced extremely cheap.
> ...


Well I can recommend this store. Just not too sure about the EU shipping, I either got lucky and it arrived fast from China or they actually have it in the warehouse. Either way I can't complain now. For the price it's a steal. Still haven't listened to them but I can't offer a comprehensive review either 😁

EDIT:
Both Balanced and High Res variants sound nice. Bass variant is just too bassy and overpowering. They are very comfortable for my small ears. I am picky in this regard because not all IEM's fit me, unfortunately. Sound-wise it's not that different from my broken CRA, if my memory serves me right, just smoother. 8 euros for each IEM I would consider it good value. I am quite happy with this purchase.


----------



## rambomhtri

Please, any *KZ Z3 TWS owner*... can you check in your Android phone, under Developer options, that you are actually using the codec aptX HD?





To me it appears grayed out and I wanna know if there's a problem with my unit or with all KZ Z3 models.


----------



## r31ya

QC3040 bluetooth chip have APTX, standard APTX.
Not sure about the "HD" part that is in the marketing material of Z3.
maybe Qualcomm update it but at least in the qualcomm website it state only support standard aptx


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Jun 21, 2022)

rambomhtri said:


> Please, any *KZ Z3 TWS owner*... can you check in your Android phone, under Developer options, that you are actually using the codec aptX HD?
> 
> 
> 
> To me it appears grayed out and I wanna know if there's a problem with my unit or with all KZ Z3 models.


KZ Z3 does not have a APTX-*HD*


----------



## Carpet (Jun 21, 2022)

r31ya said:


> QC3040 bluetooth chip have APTX, standard APTX.
> Not sure about the "HD" part that is in the marketing material of Z3.
> maybe Qualcomm update it but at least in the qualcomm website it state only support standard aptx


QCC3040 supports AptX Adaptive. Which was upgrade to AptX-HD to provide more stable connection (although max bitrate was slightly slower)


Mr.HiAudio said:


> KZ ZS3 does not have a APTX-*HD*


KZ ZS3 is a wired IEM released in 2016, it doesn't even have SBC. I presume you mean KZ Z3, which mentions AptX adaptive at the top as having the advantages of Aptx-HD and "Lossless". AptX like all BT codecs is lossy. Mentions Aptx-HD and Aptx-LL at the bottom, which is pretty shady if they aren't supported.


----------



## rambomhtri (Jun 21, 2022)

rambomhtri said:


> KZ announces them Z3 and SK10 Pro as aptX HD compatible.


Please, check their specs, I even posted a third party review from *ThePhonograph* and they state aptX HD as well for that chip...If the manufacturer says it supports aptX HD, and a review says it as well, I am forced to believe it does support it.



Mr.HiAudio said:


> KZ ZS3 does not have a APTX-*HD*



It's KZ Z3




r31ya said:


> QC3040 bluetooth chip have APTX, standard APTX.
> Not sure about the "HD" part that is in the marketing material of Z3.
> maybe Qualcomm update it but at least in the qualcomm website it state only support standard aptx



Qualcomm website for specs details is a joke. I've found dozens of errors so it's not a reference. The manufacturer's statement should be enough, and if a 3rd party site says the same as manufacturer's... not rocket science.


----------



## rambomhtri

I just need the confirmation of one KZ Z3 owner that says he or she can use aptX HD in their smartphone. Or, if not, then KZ Z3 model is a joke, I would ask for my money back and KZ is lying, which would be pretty sad. Who would spend $50 to listen to aptX?
That's what $15 TWS do...


----------



## IEMbiker

rambomhtri said:


> I just need the confirmation of one KZ Z3 owner that says he or she can use aptX HD in their smartphone. Or, if not, then KZ Z3 model is a joke, I would ask for my money back and KZ is lying, which would be pretty sad. Who would spend $50 to listen to aptX?
> That's what $15 TWS do...


It support aptX adaptive which backward compatible with aptX HD and aptX


----------



## punpun

IEMbiker said:


> It support aptX adaptive which backward compatible with aptX HD and aptX


In their data sheet that you are showing they are claiming there is aptX adaptive, while on their site there's no mention of it, although this would explain why his Z3 shows regular aptX as the only codec supported. This documentation is really confusing. https://www.qualcomm.com/products/application/audio/qcc30xx-series/qcc3040#Overview


----------



## rambomhtri

punpun said:


> In their data sheet that you are showing they are claiming there is aptX adaptive, while on their site there's no mention of it, although this would explain why his Z3 shows regular aptX as the only codec supported. This documentation is really confusing. https://www.qualcomm.com/products/application/audio/qcc30xx-series/qcc3040#Overview


As I told you, Qualcomm data is wrong 99% of the time. I'm tired of looking up info about Snapdragon chipsets just to find out their data is either false or incomplete which forces you to believe false things.


----------



## IEMbiker

rambomhtri said:


> As I told you, Qualcomm data is wrong 99% of the time. I'm tired of looking up info about Snapdragon chipsets just to find out their data is either false or incomplete which forces you to believe false things.


I try with my AZ09 Pro which use the same chip, do support aptX HD.


----------



## 4ceratops

IEMbiker said:


> I try with my AZ09 Pro which use the same chip, do support aptX HD.


My Poco phone identifies the KZ AZ09 Pro as aptX Adaptive.


----------



## jant71

Well it is KZ. Once in a while you get a driver that isn't hooked up. Sometimes you get a codec that isn't hooked up.


----------



## rambomhtri (Jun 21, 2022)

jant71 said:


> Well it is KZ. Once in a while you get a driver that isn't hooked up. Sometimes you get a codec that isn't hooked up.


I love KZ, but they are becoming a meme brand, with their stupid philosophy "let's release one new IEM every week". I can't really believe I am the very first person that discovers KZ Z3 are fake SHAIT. Why would someone buy $50 TWS and NOT CHECK if it's aptX HD?

I just noticed the bad quality of the codec as soon as I started playing music, from The Police to be precise. The drums sounded like those 128kbps mp3, cola can like. I have these no brand $15 TWS IEM with AAC and they sound better, and I precisely spent my holy $50 to improve those and specifically have aptX HD. And then if you use the KZ BT5.0 cable, which works with aptX HD, the sound is 99.99% like the wired IEM. I don't really think I can tell the difference.

I already contacted KZ and they are asking me... FOR A VIDEO TO SHOW evidence. The pictures (screenshots) are not enough, apparently. I might have used Photoshop, right?


----------



## Carpet

requal said:


> I have done quick comparison. I think it could be the best one from KZ/CCA. I like it more at this moment then CRA+ and Eda balanced, but I need more time to listening.
> 
> Possibly for some quantity of treble could be not enought.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that info. I hadn't ordered EDA or CRA+, hearing that they're light on note weight makes me glad I didn't. Waiting on EDX ultra and ESX to arrive.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike (Jun 21, 2022)

What does light on note weight even mean? Is this a parody thread? Some one will surely mention saboteurs working on the KZ production line next.


On a more serious note. Listening to the track Kid A by Radiohead on tidal. With the original dq6, and all my other bluetooth sets, the track opens with the bell tolling and xylophone sound coming through the left ear and the shooting sound in the right.

With the BA10 this is reversed. Its the only set I have that does this.
Tried dq6, soundpeats q35hd, omthing airfree, soundmagic p22bt.
Anyone able to explain why? Why would one set process the sounds in a different way to the others?
And not just because it's the best set. That's obvious and too simple.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 21, 2022)

Anycolouryoulike said:


> What does light on note weight even mean? Is this a parody thread? Some one will surely mention saboteurs working on the KZ production line next.
> 
> 
> On a more serious note. Listening to the track Kid A by Radiohead on tidal. With the original dq6, and all my other bluetooth sets, the track opens with the bell tolling and xylophone sound coming through the left ear and the shooting sound in the right.
> ...


Exactly!
All these allusions/allegations on KZ and pedalling TRN, for instance - look ridiculuous to me.
DQ6 are really special in being most BA-like DDs.
I am now switching back and forth among ESX, EDA balanced and CRA - they are amazing for the money.
Paying more to Penon/Linsoul contributing to those "free samples" sent to the peddlers does not make any sense to me.


----------



## requal

Carpet said:


> Thanks for that info. I hadn't ordered EDA or CRA+, hearing that they're light on note weight makes me glad I didn't. Waiting on EDX ultra and ESX to arrive.


I am curious what the impressions will be for more audiences.
- Yes, Esx is definitely thick and natural sounding iem


----------



## Carpet

Anycolouryoulike said:


> What does light on note weight even mean? Is this a parody thread? Some one will surely mention saboteurs working on the KZ production line next.
> 
> 
> On a more serious note. Listening to the track Kid A by Radiohead on tidal. With the original dq6, and all my other bluetooth sets, the track opens with the bell tolling and xylophone sound coming through the left ear and the shooting sound in the right.
> ...



Play something on a guitar with two humbuckers, using both pickups, preferably through a tube amp. Next use the neck pickup using coil tap to just get single coil. Turn off any reverb and lower the gain. Listen again, that will sound thinner. If that sounds no different, congratulations, you have just saved yourself a fortune on guitars and audio gear.


If you connect the left cable connector to the right earpiece and vice versa, it is very easy to get reversed stereo. 
"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


----------



## DynamicEars

XerusKun said:


> Man I just tried your mod and measured them with and without the filter, bruh it sounds more amazing now..Clearer, bass isn't overpowering anymore....what have you just suggested, this is just too good.
> 
> ​



I did lot of mods with removing of nylon / paper damper. This kinds of damper is cheap and easy solution for chifi maker, but actually for me have 1 major disadvantage : bloated bass. The full covering of nozzle blocks airway of the bass, made the bass bloated and so much less tight.
Removal of the filter will made the upper mids on raw state, you need to dampen them back, but using other damper, such as foam. Try to put in high density foam but dont block entire nozzle, still give small airway for DD bass to breathe. Thats the key.

you may want to see my old post here  : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blo...ressions-thread.916702/page-257#post-15814248

and you have privilege with your measument tool too.


----------



## Rocket222

4ceratops said:


> My Poco phone identifies the KZ AZ09 Pro as aptX Adaptive.


Only the early (likely the first batch) purchase of AZ09 pro has aptX adaptive.  Mine came in May has only aptX (classic) only.


----------



## Tzennn

XerusKun said:


> Man I just tried your mod and measured them with and without the filter, bruh it sounds more amazing now..Clearer, bass isn't overpowering anymore....what have you just suggested, this is just too good.
> 
> ​


You have Shimin Li? How ESX compare to it?


----------



## jananan78

jant71 said:


> Well it is KZ. Once in a while you get a driver that isn't hooked up. Sometimes you get a codec that isn't hooked up.


now i like where this is going lol


----------



## XerusKun

Carpet said:


> Thanks for that info. I hadn't ordered EDA or CRA+, hearing that they're light on note weight makes me glad I didn't. Waiting on EDX ultra and ESX to arrive.


EDX Ultra is even more extreme with that light noteweight...add that super artificial air..good luck. 😶


----------



## XerusKun

DynamicEars said:


> I did lot of mods with removing of nylon / paper damper. This kinds of damper is cheap and easy solution for chifi maker, but actually for me have 1 major disadvantage : bloated bass. The full covering of nozzle blocks airway of the bass, made the bass bloated and so much less tight.
> Removal of the filter will made the upper mids on raw state, you need to dampen them back, but using other damper, such as foam. Try to put in high density foam but dont block entire nozzle, still give small airway for DD bass to breathe. Thats the key.
> 
> you may want to see my old post here  : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blo...ressions-thread.916702/page-257#post-15814248
> ...


Actually I like them filterless..and bass isn't bloated stock, I just like more clarity at top (more mids)..Filterless upper mids isn't shouty to be honest. I might put a metal mesh instead (like with the ZSX) to retain that pinna.


----------



## XerusKun

Also I don't need to put another type of damper (foams), since the driver already has a subdued 4-5khz. It really sounds good filterless no need to put extra dampers what not.


----------



## DynamicEars

XerusKun said:


> Also I don't need to put another type of damper (foams), since the driver already has a subdued 4-5khz. It really sounds good filterless no need to put extra dampers what not.



even it feels good to you, its nice to have bit of foam to absorb unwanted resonance at tail of transients, majority the TOTL IEMs also have dampers, but they going more advance like knowles damper per passive frequency tubes, or using foam like Sony, but not with easy shortcut nylon or paper damper.

If you listen closely, bass definition, bass texture is different when using those nylon damper. I know because I did these kind of works over the years, and I myself is very picky about bass quality, only 1 IEM that can satisfied my bass urge so far, the Z1R


----------



## XerusKun

DynamicEars said:


> even it feels good to you, its nice to have bit of foam to absorb unwanted resonance at tail of transients, majority the TOTL IEMs also have dampers, but they going more advance like knowles damper per passive frequency tubes, or using foam like Sony, but not with easy shortcut nylon or paper damper.
> 
> If you listen closely, bass definition, bass texture is different when using those nylon damper. I know because I did these kind of works over the years, and I myself is very picky about bass quality, only 1 IEM that can satisfied my bass urge so far, the Z1R


I'll try the alcohol wipe mod later. But I doubt it will improve the sound even more..filterless already sounds excellent to me. 

~ESX sounds like an EDA Balanced on steroids when filterless. 😆


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

Carpet said:


> Play something on a guitar with two humbuckers, using both pickups, preferably through a tube amp. Next use the neck pickup using coil tap to just get single coil. Turn off any reverb and lower the gain. Listen again, that will sound thinner. If that sounds no different, congratulations, you have just saved yourself a fortune on guitars and audio gear.
> 
> 
> If you connect the left cable connector to the right earpiece and vice versa, it is very easy to get reversed stereo.
> "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


Nope. I can rule out stupidity. The cable is inserted in to the iems correctly. 

It is an odd effect though.


----------



## SartWaiting

Anycolouryoulike said:


> I can rule out stupidity. The cable is inserted in to the iems correctly.


Maybe wrong marked cable?


----------



## earmonger

Jeez, the KZ EDA 3-pack is now $21, same as just getting the balanced.  

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804060806986.html


----------



## Carpet

Anycolouryoulike said:


> Nope. I can rule out stupidity. The cable is inserted in to the iems correctly.
> 
> It is an odd effect though.


Stupidity during manufacture is possible. If the labeled connectors are wired to the opposite channels, depending on the style of splitter, that wouldn't be apparent. Does the IEM still reverse with a different cable? Polarity could be reversed on one side of either earpiece or cable. That would put things out of phase (not reversed stereo, but still sounding "off"). If it's out of phase, that could also sound strange with playback of a mono recording.


----------



## jananan78 (Jun 23, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> even it feels good to you, its nice to have bit of foam to absorb unwanted resonance at tail of transients, majority the TOTL IEMs also have dampers, but they going more advance like knowles damper per passive frequency tubes, or using foam like Sony, but not with easy shortcut nylon or paper damper.
> 
> If you listen closely, bass definition, bass texture is different when using those nylon damper. I know because I did these kind of works over the years, and I myself is very picky about bass quality, only 1 IEM that can satisfied my bass urge so far, the Z1R


i removed the filter on my CRA and EDX and regret it, it adds brittleness and extra granularity like unwanted FR harshness across the entire frequency range. yes louder mids but not smooth at all. i think in a graph it would have tony saw tooth patterns alone the audible range.


----------



## DynamicEars

jananan78 said:


> i removed the filter on my CRA and EDX and regret it, it adds brittleness and extra granularity like unwanted FR harshness across the entire frequency range. yes louder mids but not smooth at all. i think in a graph it would have tony saw tooth patterns alone the audible range.



Thats why you have to dampened it back, but not using that nylon damper, use mesh 500 with pinched hole on center for CRA, and add little bit of foam. The mod here is to change the damper, not to remove and listen on raw unless you're OK with it


----------



## XerusKun

DynamicEars said:


> Thats why you have to dampened it back, but not using that nylon damper, use mesh 500 with pinched hole on center for CRA, and add little bit of foam. The mod here is to change the damper, not to remove and listen on raw unless you're OK with it


Just curious, is there a noticeable difference between the stock filter of CRA vs 500 mesh? I have checked riku measurement and the FR seems to be the same with stock and 500 mesh.


----------



## DynamicEars

XerusKun said:


> Just curious, is there a noticeable difference between the stock filter of CRA vs 500 mesh? I have checked riku measurement and the FR seems to be the same with stock and 500 mesh.



Thats the point, make the bass cleaner while retain same signature as original. They may look the same on FR, but bass texture, air and tightness is different here. Better if you pinch a hole on the mesh surface, just tiny hole to make airway.
Kudos to @RikudouGoku , he is a long friend that doing mods with me. Miss Slater.


----------



## RikudouGoku

DynamicEars said:


> Thats the point, make the bass cleaner while retain same signature as original. They may look the same on FR, but bass texture, air and tightness is different here.


Makes sense, the stock filter is kinda restrictive in terms of airflow. 

Here are some more data on those 2:


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 23, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Makes sense, the stock filter is kinda restrictive in terms of airflow.
> 
> Here are some more data on those 2:


Nice looking colourful graphs 
Though hard to pinpoint any difference.
Have you tried to subtract one response from another to get more clear evidence of the difference (if any)? May work better with more averaged responses.


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> Have you tried to subtract one response from another to get more clear evidence of the difference (if any)? May work better with more averaged responses.


There isnt a function like that in REW afaik.



PhonoPhi said:


> Nice looking colourful graphs
> Though hard to pinpoint any difference.


indeed, I admit I really have no clue how to read them lol.


----------



## DynamicEars

RikudouGoku said:


> There isnt a function like that in REW afaik.
> 
> 
> indeed, I admit I really have no clue how to read them lol.



I was about to ask you about this 

Is that "smears" on original CRA (look at sub bass area and that around 38hz area) This is something new for me but if this graphically proven that is something nice for my knowledge about audio world, very useful for mod stuff etc. Although I'm sure the differences of bloated and smeared bass is very noticeable with those nylon dampers


----------



## HAMS

I thought that damper material does not makes any difference as long it has the same acoustic resistance. Though In my experience the film dampers are more prone to clogging by moisture compared to foams.


----------



## DynamicEars

HAMS said:


> I thought that damper material does not makes any difference as long it has the same acoustic resistance. Though In my experience the film dampers are more prone to clogging by moisture compared to foams.



Different materials affect different frequency range even same foam material with different kind of its density also affect differently. THe nylon / paper damper that budget / mid chifi often use made bloated / smeared bass because its blocking the entire nozzle thus made bad airflow for DD. Prone to clog is one of the proof that their pores / holes are too small and tight, when the DD push the air, much of them blocked by the nylon / paper film damper and resonance back inside nozzle / cavity, that made sound of the bass still heard, but bloated


----------



## RikudouGoku

DynamicEars said:


> I was about to ask you about this
> 
> Is that "smears" on original CRA (look at sub bass area and that around 38hz area) This is something new for me but if this graphically proven that is something nice for my knowledge about audio world, very useful for mod stuff etc. Although I'm sure the differences of bloated and smeared bass is very noticeable with those nylon dampers


its probably a coincidence for these 2, as I havent been able to find out any general traits for the same type of bass while looking at other iems.


DynamicEars said:


> Prone to clog is one of the proof that their pores / holes are too small and tight, when the DD push the air, much of them blocked by the nylon / paper film damper and resonance back inside nozzle / cavity, that made sound of the bass still heard, but bloated


its a form of distortion, take a look here:


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## PhonoPhi (Jun 24, 2022)

Brief opinion on ESX after more than a week of listening and comparisons.
Very nice IEM, a beautiful top plate - "cracked lines", two metals are gourgeously subtle and great gold/bronze grills:





Compared to CRA and CRA+, ESX feel more weighty (less agile/fragile), less V-shaped. The bass is potent, and with wide-bore tips is not overwhelming to my ears.

ESX are well-resolving, though again less agile than CRA, CRA+ and HZ Mirror, the champion of resolution (at least from the first impression).

Aria still feels to me as more mature tuning all the way. While I am more appreciative of V than Harman, the near-boring tuning of Aria with those subtle spikes at 5 and 10 kHz works well for me - not so as my listening preference, but as a very good reference.

Overexaggerated 5 Hz region of CRA made me feel the treble/sibilance (not my preference for long listeming).

Compared to CRA, CRA+ offer more conservative, safer tuning. Does it worth alnost twice more? Not so much to me, but both were worthy competitors to listen to.

Overall, ESX, CRA and CRA× were all very enjoyable experience. The best deal for the money is still arguably CRA. More solid, weighty overall champion is ESX. CRA+ is close.


----------



## DynamicEars

PhonoPhi said:


> Brief opinion on ESX after more than a week of listening and comparisons.
> Very nice IEM, a beautiful top plate - "cracked lines", two metals and great gold/bronze grills:
> 
> 
> ...



That is a very beautiful yet very cool shell at the same time. One of the best shell design, i love the grills on the top part.

I have prediction that this ESX have great potential to be modded, large driver, boomy bass sounded like bad airflow again because of nylon / paper damper on the nozzle, and looking at the FR, it is easier to mod because no 5khz peak like CRA, but I hesitate to spend because currently too many IEMs lying around untouched.


----------



## PhonoPhi

DynamicEars said:


> That is a very beautiful yet very cool shell at the same time. One of the best shell design, i love the grills on the top part.
> 
> I have prediction that this ESX have great potential to be modded, large driver, boomy bass sounded like bad airflow again because of nylon / paper damper on the nozzle, and looking at the FR, it is easier to mod because no 5khz peak like CRA, but I hesitate to spend because currently too many IEMs lying around untouched.


I very much agree.
I too have way too many IEMs (hard to resist here...)
If ESX were my main IEM, I would remove the fairly restraining mesh per all good recomendations here, and go from it (for my main IEM, I just removed the mesh).
Interestingly, CRA+ have a less restrictive, more open metal mesh compared to CRA and ESX.


----------



## profusion

Just brief impression after 1-2 months using only my CRA, now switched back to my loved DQ6……well DQ6 are really a thing, and clearly the winning pair for me. More body and velvet sound, really somehow homogeneous like all well tuned, with better soundstage.


----------



## Atek2019

it's really the best KZ iem.


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## kalo86 (Jun 27, 2022)

Just remove the net to unlock the full potential. It's not the best iem but for the cost it's amazing!


Atek2019 said:


> it's really the best KZ iem.


----------



## Carrow

got a pair of ZS10 Pro with a bonus cable for sale on eBay if there's any interest!


----------



## jananan78

isn't it time for a new model KZ S-E- X? 

Pun aside I'm waiting for them to bring back some BA with the new DDs from ESX.


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> isn't it time for a new model KZ S-E- X?
> 
> Pun aside I'm waiting for them to bring back some BA with the new DDs from ESX.


In a clear resin shell so we can see they're wired up!


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## brsdrgn (Jun 28, 2022)

Wrong thread...


----------



## northernsound (Jun 28, 2022)

I'm listening to the KZ EDA Balanced now, with the original tips and the mic-version. I'm getting a pretty good seal with the biggest original tips, the AC is on full blast in the background and it's doing a decent job of drowning it out. So far I'm very happy with it. I've bought the CCA CRA and now the KZ EDA Balanced and I think I'm becoming a KZ/CCA-fan. To me that's mainly been into speakers before it really is amazing what kind of sound-quality you can get for the money when you buy Chifi-IEMs. As usual I've equalized it to compensate for the normal hearing-loss in the upper frequencies I've gotten with the years. I have not yet tried out the mic.


----------



## jananan78

northernsound said:


> I'm listening to the KZ EDA Balanced now, with the original tips and the mic-version. I'm getting a pretty good seal with the biggest original tips, the AC is on full blast in the background and it's doing a decent job of drowning it out. So far I'm very happy with it. I've bought the CCA CRA and now the KZ EDA Balanced and I think I'm becoming a KZ/CCA-fan. To me that's mainly been into speakers before it really is amazing what kind of sound-quality you can get for the money when you buy Chifi-IEMs. As usual I've equalized it to compensate for the normal hearing-loss in the upper frequencies I've gotten with the years. I have not yet tried out the mic.


ensure you pair it with a usb dac amp at least if you are listening from your phone. even the cheapest one makes a lot of difference, there will be more energy in the music, impactful bass and well extended treble. only a handful of photos can do what any simply usb dac amp can do for yy (your music)


----------



## Carpet

northernsound said:


> I'm listening to the KZ EDA Balanced now, with the original tips and the mic-version. I'm getting a pretty good seal with the biggest original tips, the AC is on full blast in the background and it's doing a decent job of drowning it out. So far I'm very happy with it. I've bought the CCA CRA and now the KZ EDA Balanced and I think I'm becoming a KZ/CCA-fan. To me that's mainly been into speakers before it really is amazing what kind of sound-quality you can get for the money when you buy Chifi-IEMs. As usual I've equalized it to compensate for the normal hearing-loss in the upper frequencies I've gotten with the years. I have not yet tried out the mic.


I've skipped the EDA and the CRA+, but have received the ESX and EDX Ultra recently. Both have good soundstage, separation and tone. ESX is warmer and more relaxed. EDX ultra has more extension on top and sounds more transparent. Really down to preference, these are both amazing value.


----------



## northernsound

jananan78 said:


> ensure you pair it with a usb dac amp at least if you are listening from your phone. even the cheapest one makes a lot of difference, there will be more energy in the music, impactful bass and well extended treble. only a handful of photos can do what any simply usb dac amp can do for yy (your music)


I don't understand how that would do something that an eq can't do since it's so easily driven, but maybe I'm not understanding the physics correctly. I've seen a lot of diskussion about it in the "testing audiophiles claims and myths"-thread and other places and opinion seems to vary a lot. I guess it's like the whole cable discussion in hifi-circles.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 29, 2022)

northernsound said:


> I don't understand how that would do something that an eq can't do since it's so easily driven, but maybe I'm not understanding the physics correctly. I've seen a lot of diskussion about it in the "testing audiophiles claims and myths"-thread and other places and opinion seems to vary a lot. I guess it's like the whole cable discussion in hifi-circles.


The reality is that the phone DAC/amps are often:
A) very basic that can matter, especially for an amp part (limited voltage, higher background noise).
B) geared for the speech legibility, since they are phones after all.

My Samsung S10 (and S9 before) sound noticeably inferior using their 3.5 mm jacks. I am sure going deeper into the settings and/or using good software can make phone DAC/amp sound better.
But then the Apple USB dongle (at least NA version) is a miracle for $8.
I can also recommend CX31993 - a very nicely made dongle for under $15, and being on a brighter side, it pairs well with gentler DDs, like ESX or EDA balanced.
The return on further USB dac investments is arguably more limited, unless you need to drive something special - either low (below 16 Ohm) or higher (above 60-80 Ohm) IEMs; or need some specific functions or just for a sense of inner gratification 

Similar (but much less important/noticeable) are the cables, they can matter to the point, exchanging thin high-resistance (more than 1.5 Ohm per single wire) original cables can be noticeable, especially with BAs and hybrids.
Can silver/gold/Litz/unobtanium be clearly distinguished relative to a good $15-20 cable (common silver-plated copper, 4N or 5N) - no one proved it so far in double blind tests, and just mentioning those tests to "cable beleivers" is akin talking about silver to vampires 

A good rule of thumb is spending ca. 70% on transducers (including tips and cables, if needed for the fit/comfort) ca. 30% on the source.


----------



## jananan78 (Jun 29, 2022)

northernsound said:


> I don't understand how that would do something that an eq can't do since it's so easily driven, but maybe I'm not understanding the physics correctly. I've seen a lot of diskussion about it in the "testing audiophiles claims and myths"-thread and other places and opinion seems to vary a lot. I guess it's like the whole cable discussion in hifi-circles.


cables make very subtle difference only but a dac amp makes a ton of difference and you can actually hear the audio scaling up in quality as the dac amp uses better processor. for starters try a CX chipset dongle as suggested above then you will want a ESS sabre just to know how much better it can sound, and trust me the sound signatures will be different you might never go back to listening without a dac amp again - so be warned. especially if you try listening to flac files as your source, with and without an a dac amp makes a ton of difference in terms of bass impact, bass texture, mid clarity, treble extension, instrument separation, soundstage, instrument positioning horizontally (vertical positioning sometimes depends on iem) and a whole lot more, but remember not every dac amp gives you everything unless you get something flagship  

to compare imagine hooking up your home theater player to speakers directly without an amplifier, it might still drive the speakers but you will be missing a lot without an amplifier that decodes and amplifies your audio before feeding it to the speakers.


----------



## Carrow

Carrow said:


> got a pair of ZS10 Pro with a bonus cable for sale on eBay if there's any interest!


update: these are locked in to sell so get involved if you want them!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jun 29, 2022)

jananan78 said:


> cables make very subtle difference only but a dac amp makes a ton of difference and you can actually hear the audio scaling up in quality as the dac amp uses better processor. for starters try a CX chipset dongle as suggested above then you will want a ESS sabre just to know how much better it can sound, and trust me the sound signatures will be different you might never go back to listening without a dac amp again - so be warned. especially if you try listening to flac files as your source, with and without an a dac amp makes a ton of difference in terms of bass impact, bass texture, mid clarity, treble extension, instrument separation, soundstage, instrument positioning horizontally (vertical positioning sometimes depends on iem) and a whole lot more, but remember not every dac amp gives you everything unless you get something flagship
> 
> to compare imagine hooking up your home theater player to speakers directly without an amplifier, it might still drive the speakers but you will be missing a lot without an amplifier that decodes and amplifies your audio before feeding it to the speakers.


Did you see any evidence for "a ton of difference," of DACs in measurements?

I did not, while the influence of the tips and cable&source impedance was convincingly (to me) demonstrated.

Sure, DACs matter for the amplitude (dynamics) and fast transients, but then it is more of tuning for the house sound to me (Shanling, iBasso, etc) then real resolution diffetence at $20-25+ 

Spending $1000+ on USB DACs and other sources, my strongest revelation was an Apple dongle at higher volumes - next is E1DA SG3 - a beast that nerds a battery to do its best.
Here is the comparison I posted some time ago: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/usb...s-find-the-best.908839/page-217#post-16706117

My main conclusion of my  DAC quest is that more fancy/expensive DACs "cook" the sound, so one is better of with a good parametric equalizer to do tuning to their individual preference perfectly and on a $0 budget.

Again, spending 1/3 to 1/2 on the source relative to IEMs makes sense to me.
Spending more is for the hobby pleasures not any rational sense.


----------



## northernsound

PhonoPhi said:


> The reality is that the phone DAC/amps are often:
> A) very basic that can matter, especially for an amp part (limited voltage, higher background noise).
> B) geared for the speech legibility, since they are phones after all.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your answer. It's a long discussion but background noise can certainly be an issue some times, good point.


----------



## northernsound

jananan78 said:


> cables make very subtle difference only but a dac amp makes a ton of difference and you can actually hear the audio scaling up in quality as the dac amp uses better processor. for starters try a CX chipset dongle as suggested above then you will want a ESS sabre just to know how much better it can sound, and trust me the sound signatures will be different you might never go back to listening without a dac amp again - so be warned. especially if you try listening to flac files as your source, with and without an a dac amp makes a ton of difference in terms of bass impact, bass texture, mid clarity, treble extension, instrument separation, soundstage, instrument positioning horizontally (vertical positioning sometimes depends on iem) and a whole lot more, but remember not every dac amp gives you everything unless you get something flagship
> 
> to compare imagine hooking up your home theater player to speakers directly without an amplifier, it might still drive the speakers but you will be missing a lot without an amplifier that decodes and amplifies your audio before feeding it to the speakers.


Thank you for the answer.  I read that one guy EQ:d a cheap amp to sound exactly like an expensive amp (with speakers), he did the whole phase-thing to match and then people couldn't tell them apart in blind tests. Without any perticular technical issues (like annoying background noise, disturbances from bad shielding or whatever) I think that's about where I am in my understanding of amps and so on. I understand that I might be wrong, but at this moment with the limited knowledge I have* I'm* still not, generally speaking, understanding the physics behind all of the expensive dacs/amps and so on that people buy. However, I don't have an academic background that would make me one of the most suitable persons to make any hard judgement on this issue, the only point I want to make is that* I'm* not understanding why I should spend money on it right now. I'm very satisfied with the listening test on different frequencies I'm doing on my phone (when it comes to the IEMs) and room correction and room treatment for the speakers and so on. And once again just to not start any kind of "I'm right, you're wrong"-type of debate, I'm not 100% sure I'm right, not at all.


----------



## jananan78

PhonoPhi said:


> Did you see any evidence for "a ton of difference," of DACs in measurements?
> 
> I did not, while the influence of the tips and cable&source impedance was convincingly (to me) demonstrated.
> 
> ...


$1000 dollar USB DAC is Overkill. to a degree yes they shape the sound to a house signature but the clarity and authority that is presented in the sound. above $100 usb dongles don't scale up tremendously towards $1000. but from a phone source to a beginner usb dongle there is certainly improvement. and the same sound signature is maintained between different devices like phones, tablets laptops etc i e  don't have to worry about inferior sound quality. while parametric equalizer does help there is too much hassle involved and not always achieve the results i want especially when changing sources.


----------



## jananan78 (Jun 30, 2022)

northernsound said:


> Thank you for the answer.  I read that one guy EQ:d a cheap amp to sound exactly like an expensive amp (with speakers), he did the whole phase-thing to match and then people couldn't tell them apart in blind tests. Without any perticular technical issues (like annoying background noise, disturbances from bad shielding or whatever) I think that's about where I am in my understanding of amps and so on. I understand that I might be wrong, but at this moment with the limited knowledge I have* I'm* still not, generally speaking, understanding the physics behind all of the expensive dacs/amps and so on that people buy. However, I don't have an academic background that would make me one of the most suitable persons to make any hard judgement on this issue, the only point I want to make is that* I'm* not understanding why I should spend money on it right now. I'm very satisfied with the listening test on different frequencies I'm doing on my phone (when it comes to the IEMs) and room correction and room treatment for the speakers and so on. And once again just to not start any kind of "I'm right, you're wrong"-type of debate, I'm not 100% sure I'm right, not at all.


always start with something cheap and see if you like the difference it makes. we all end up having multiple dacs anps and combos and we don't just throw the old ones as sometimes you find a good pairing no matter the price. around $70-100 usb dongle is plenty good.
if you listen to tidal mqa then you need one capable of unfolding mqa else anything that can at least decorde dsd 128 32bit 384khz sounds amazing imho when decoding flac.


----------



## DynamicEars

jananan78 said:


> $1000 dollar USB DAC is Overkill. to a degree yes they shape the sound to a house signature but the clarity and authority that is presented in the sound. above $100 usb dongles don't scale up tremendously towards $1000. but from a phone source to a beginner usb dongle there is certainly improvement. and the same sound signature is maintained between different devices like phones, tablets laptops etc i e  don't have to worry about inferior sound quality. while parametric equalizer does help there is too much hassle involved and not always achieve the results i want especially when changing sources.



I agree on this part, where the budget section makes a lot different jump in quality for relatively small spends, be it on DAC, dongles compared to regular phone, or IEM themselves. The $100 section are where hottest offers sit. Like @baskingshark always say about this hobby, The law of diminishing returns are heavily applied.
But the best part is when your ears demand more and more, you are already in a rabbit hole, no turning back point and deep condolences wallet.


----------



## grogg

ESX is now my favourite IEM under $100. I am amazed at the detail, soundstage and imaging from a $20 pair of IEMs. I think the vocals on the CRA+ slightly better but the ESX does everything else so much better. Changed the tips to some other silicone tips I had lying around that are a bit thicker in material, and bigger bore than the OEM tips and they make the sound a little better (though the stock sound is great too).
Tried a few games of PUBG with them and they sounded great for gaming as well.


----------



## jananan78

DynamicEars said:


> I agree on this part, where the budget section makes a lot different jump in quality for relatively small spends, be it on DAC, dongles compared to regular phone, or IEM themselves. The $100 section are where hottest offers sit. Like @baskingshark always say about this hobby, The law of diminishing returns are heavily applied.
> But the best part is when your ears demand more and more, you are already in a rabbit hole, no turning back point and deep condolences wallet.


a few btands like iBasso, Dragonfly, FiiO etc offer best bang for buck and you don't have to always get their latest and greatest as mostly it is overkill and you can never find music at those insane high resolution that it supports. sometimes even dac amps from 2-3 years ago sounds just as good if you aren't nitpicking. even older models are miles ahead of most current flagship phones. once in a while you get a gem like the LG phones with proper dac in them but nowadays it's all integrated into the SOC for making phones dirt cheap to manufacture and maximizing profits (looking at you Fruit company and $am $ung)


----------



## Carpet

Minimal spending on your weakest link will provide much better results, than huge spending to slightly improve an already adequate component. If your eartips don't give you a good seal, then your A&K DAP won't help. Balancing your spending will give you the best results. 

Find your preference too with cheaper purchases. If you buy two budget IEMs with different signatures, you can then buy an upgrade of the one you prefer. That way you have a spare set. You will also have an alternative, that some music may actually sound better on. 

If you have friends (not everyone, granted) then you can always pass on old sets to them. A $20 set, to someone who has only used the free buds that came with their phone, will sound magical!

If passing on an old set you don't listen to anymore, is an anathema to you. I think that be related to why you have no friends!


----------



## DynamicEars

jananan78 said:


> a few btands like iBasso, Dragonfly, FiiO etc offer best bang for buck and you don't have to always get their latest and greatest as mostly it is overkill and you can never find music at those insane high resolution that it supports. sometimes even dac amps from 2-3 years ago sounds just as good if you aren't nitpicking. even older models are miles ahead of most current flagship phones. once in a while you get a gem like the LG phones with proper dac in them but nowadays it's all integrated into the SOC for making phones dirt cheap to manufacture and maximizing profits (looking at you Fruit company and $am $ung)



I'm still using my cracked screen LG V40 actually


----------



## Capo Dei Capi (Jul 1, 2022)

Just dropped in to say. I picked up the new KZ ESX, 10 year anniversary. You can notice the elevated base straight away. I tried it against the few other KZ's i own and it's probably the best so far on the budget end. Although, when i listened to the DQ6, it was very, very close. All i did was change the tips. I do that with all KZ IEM's though.

My opinion is, for the price, £16 quid, £19 including shipping and taxes, it's an excellent IEM. What i have been finding lately though, is that all the KZ iems are very good, just not that different from each other. They raise the bar a few inches but not a few feet.

I'm still breaking it in, so I'll update later. But right out of the box it sounded great.

One thing that i did notice, that others might be able to comment on. My box wasn't wrapped in plastic. I'm not sure if i got an opened pair.

I'll be interested to see what others think.


----------



## Carpet

Akros review of KZ ESX


----------



## requal (Jul 2, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Akros review of KZ ESX



He's using bad choosen tips. Esx is difficult in this aspect.


----------



## Carpet (Jul 2, 2022)

requal said:


> He's using bad choosen tips. Esx is difficult in this aspect.



1/ everyone has different shaped ears, what fits you does not necessarily give a good seal with another person.

2/ reviewers using a standard tip that suits them, helps provide a more consistent result. Akros will change to other tips occasionally, but KBEAR 07 is his usual choice. Zeos uses Comply foams, certain reviewer from Hawaii similarly uses CP100. Many reviewers use everything stock, others try varying sources, cables, tips etc.

3/ I have the ESX. It is *not *fussy about tip choice. I have tried several tips on mine, KBEAR 07 sound fine. I wouldn't recommend foams as it's dark enough in it's tuning, without further boosting the bass. Wide bored tips work well here.

4/ have you actually listened to the ESX with those particular tips? If not, then your opinion is not even a subjective evaluation, it is conjecture.

5/ people will have differing experiences and interpretations. None are wrong, people are entitled to their own opinions. Reviews are opinions, feel free not to use them, it's your money.


----------



## requal

Graph comparison taken from Ian. 
Splashy treble in Ultra, which I mentioned before comes from above 10khz.


----------



## requal (Jul 2, 2022)

Carpet said:


> 1/ everyone has different shaped ears, what fits you does not necessarily give a good seal with another person.
> 
> 2/ reviewers using a standard tip that suits them helps provide a more consistent result. Akros will change to other tips occasionally, but KBEAR 07 is his usual choice. Zeos uses Comply foams, certain reviewer from Hawaii similarly uses CP100. Many reviewers use everything stock, others try varying sources, cables, tips etc.
> 
> ...


Just look what tips were stock ones in Esx and think why.
When I see L size tips with long nozzle I'm confused, it could not work.

SO ITS MY OPINION DOH!


----------



## Carpet

requal said:


> Just look what tips were stock ones in Esx and think why.
> When I see L size tips with long nozzle I'm confused, it could not work.
> 
> SO ITS MY OPINION DOH!



If you own the ESX and have tried other tips on them, then tell us what they were and how they compared.

It is not appropriate to label someone else's opinion as wrong, without providing some supporting evidence.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 2, 2022)

requal said:


> Just look what tips were stock ones in Esx and think why.
> When I see L size tips with long nozzle I'm confused, it could not work.
> 
> SO ITS MY OPINION DOH!


I agree. The original tips are not great for ESX. Wide-bore tips, like Spiral dots, work much better to my ears (each ear anatomy is different though), so ESX is my favourite of the recent batch (I do not have ultra).
The guy pretending to distinguish "LCP" by looking at the driver is pathetic, as most of those reviewers out there reviewing one IEM after another in a rush.
Even more pathetic, IMHO, is regurgitating opinions of those reviewers....


----------



## requal

PhonoPhi said:


> I agree. The original tips are not great for ESX. Wide-bore tips, like Spiral dots, work much better to my ears (each ear anatomy is different though), so ESX is my favourite of the recent batch (I do not have ultra).
> The guy pretending to distinguish "LCP" by looking at the driver is pathetic, as most of those reviewers out there reviewing one IEM after another in a rush.
> Even more pathetic, IMHO, is regurgitating opinions of those reviewers....


Reviewer is a same hobbist as we are, even inferior.. This term - reviewer is pure bs for me, as user and owner I can get better knowledge about thing which I had to pay for, just because I try to use it in optimal way. 
Sound physist could explain for us something else, but we haven't them too much. 

Sadly I haven't second Spiral Dot, I have lost one. 
Regarding to my tips inventory: at this moment I have every single type of SpinFits, ePro, Bgvp w01 tips which I dont like, many Sony tips, Final E and lot of residue from iems which I had before.
I was trying to shortened nozles of Final E for this purpose but it wasnt good idea. I just ended with stock ones in this case. When I was trying to use most of them I had experience of too "long-nozle-v-shaping sound".


----------



## Carpet

requal said:


> Reviewer is a same hobbist as we are, even inferior.. This term - reviewer is pure bs for me, as user and owner I can get better knowledge about thing which I had to pay for, just because I try to use it in optimal way.
> Sound physist could explain for us something else, but we haven't them too much.
> 
> Sadly I haven't second Spiral Dot, I have lost one.
> ...



All the reviewers are hobbyists, but they are putting in some work to give feedback to the rest of us. Any feedback is better than none. Information from manufacturers and retailers is invariably overhyped and unreliable. I usually prefer to wait until retailers are clearing overstocks of older models. Better prices and known quantities. Flavor of the month are risky purchases and often regretted.

Regarding short tips, SpinFit CP360 might work. They are designed for TWS earbuds and shorter than normal tips. Reversed starlines might also work if you cut the stem down (also not a great loss if you write them off). Alternatively drop down a size in tips if you have a deeper fit, that sometimes works.


----------



## r31ya (Jul 2, 2022)

i'm having hard time loving KZ ESX after dailying EDA-Balanced.

Too bad really, other than polite treble, it improve most aspect of the technicalities.
better quality bass, fuller vocals, better soundstage, that airy feels. but yeah.
After hearing Eda-bal, it feels unbalanced. a bit too much bass that overpower other sounds.
eartip  change reduce the bass, but for some reason, it feels it reduce the bass quality as well...

Despite ESX seems to have bigger stage and more air, i can hear things easier such as listening to bass guitar line easier on EDA Balanced somehow.

seriously tempted to order CCA Lyra which seems to be refined EDA-balanced.


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## requal (Jul 2, 2022)

Carpet said:


> All the reviewers are hobbyists, but they are putting in some work to give feedback to the rest of us. Any feedback is better than none. Information from manufacturers and retailers is invariably overhyped and unreliable. I usually prefer to wait until retailers are clearing overstocks of older models. Better prices and known quantities. Flavor of the month are risky purchases and often regretted.
> 
> Regarding short tips, SpinFit CP360 might work. They are designed for TWS earbuds and shorter than normal tips. Reversed starlines might also work if you cut the stem down (also not a great loss if you write them off). Alternatively drop down a size in tips if you have a deeper fit, that sometimes works.



Cp360 same story, way too long tips, on too long nozzle of earphone, with too long inside part. For me it's not working. 
Overall it's not miracle earphone.. It's bassy with not as sharp treble, as EDA balanced. I can use Esx in city communication and for this purpose is fine.

On photo: left stock one, right Cp360


----------



## requal (Jul 2, 2022)

Here is picture with EDA - if someone had before problems with long nozzle should avoid this one

About reviewers: Graph is just enought to get initial conception of sound.


----------



## rambomhtri

Can ANYBODY confirm (as in actually check it in their smartphone) if the model "*KZ SK10 Pro*" supports and works in aptX HD?
That means it is working at 576 kbps, 24 bit, 48 kHz, instead of the regular aptX that works at 384 kbps, 16 bit, and up to 48kHz (normally lower).

The bluetooth menu sometimes lies, as in it shows an option to enable "aptX HD" but it actually does not change anything. You have to check it in developer settings:





There is where you must be able to select aptX HD and play music without any problems. I am asking because KZ Z3 "supposedly" supports aptX HD, but I have the unit and it actually does not, only supports aptX. KZ liars sadly false advertise. Also, they make you believe it supports aptX HD because in the Bluetooth Android menu, inside the paired device settings (Phone calls, Media Audio, Contact sharing...) there is an option that says "HD audio". That changes from SBC to aptX, not from aptX to aptX HD.

I'm kind of sick of KZ, I really love their built quality in selected IEM's, such as KZ ZS7, and their sound and everything, but then they lie in your face like that, advertising a tech that is not supported, or not soldering drivers, etc... It's a mixed, a really mixed feeling of anger, respect and total lack of respect.


----------



## Carrow

Carrow said:


> got a pair of ZS10 Pro with a bonus cable for sale on eBay if there's any interest!


slightly less than 24 hours left with a bunch of bids, still below €10 with the cable!


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

PhonoPhi said:


> I agree. The original tips are not great for ESX. Wide-bore tips, like Spiral dots, work much better to my ears (each ear anatomy is different though), so ESX is my favourite of the recent batch (I do not have ultra).
> The guy pretending to distinguish "LCP" by looking at the driver is pathetic, as most of those reviewers out there reviewing one IEM after another in a rush.
> Even more pathetic, IMHO, is regurgitating opinions of those reviewers....


I replace all the tips on my KZ's. They sound twice as good when done so.


----------



## Carpet (Jul 3, 2022)

If you find the KZ ESX to be too dark, try Tennmak Whirlwinds. They have similar shape and length to the new short pattern tips (not starlines), that come included. They are firmer, larger bore and certainly brighten up the treble. As always YMMV.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32832433793.html

They do free shipping and their foams are very good too.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> If you find the KZ ESX to be too dark, try Tennmak Whirlwinds. They have similar shape and length to the new short pattern tips (not starlines), that come included. They are firmer, larger bore and certainly brighten up the treble. As always YMMV.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32832433793.html
> 
> They do free shipping and their foams are very good too.


Kz used to have whirlwind, a blue one.
it will up the treble. but yeah, it also can turn normal iem to sibilant one


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> Kz used to have whirlwind, a blue one.
> it will up the treble. but yeah, it also can turn normal iem to sibilant one


I actually find the original tips okay, I use the ESX as something relaxed. The EDX Ultra has better treble and sounds cleaner. The two are complimentary. The only problem is that the more relaxed one doesn't work for sleeping, it's pretty thick. I think that's might be why they put the longer nozzle on it. To help retain it in place when wearing. Semi-custom fit with a wing would have been a better option.


----------



## requal

Carpet said:


> All the reviewers are hobbyists, but they are putting in some work to give feedback to the rest of us. Any feedback is better than none. Information from manufacturers and retailers is invariably overhyped and unreliable. I usually prefer to wait until retailers are clearing overstocks of older models. Better prices and known quantities. Flavor of the month are risky purchases and often regretted.
> 
> Regarding short tips, SpinFit CP360 might work. They are designed for TWS earbuds and shorter than normal tips. Reversed starlines might also work if you cut the stem down (also not a great loss if you write them off). Alternatively drop down a size in tips if you have a deeper fit, that sometimes works.





Carpet said:


> If you find the KZ ESX to be too dark, try Tennmak Whirlwinds. They have similar shape and length to the new short pattern tips (not starlines), that come included. They are firmer, larger bore and certainly brighten up the treble. As always YMMV.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32832433793.html
> 
> They do free shipping and their foams are very good too.


I must say, that Whirlwinds are real good for Esx. Only real better ones which I found from yesterday are Xelastecs (but we know issues of these..)


----------



## Carpet

requal said:


> I must say, that Whirlwinds are real good for Esx. Only real better ones which I found from yesterday are Xelastecs (but we know issues of these..)


Cost is a factor too. Putting $10 tips and a $20 cable on a $20 KZ raises a serious question. Would you have been better off buying something like an SG-01 OVA or Mele in the first place. It's very easy to overlook included accessories.

That scales up as well, for two $50 IEMs you could have something like an Aria or YST-02 plus change. And so on up the chain...


----------



## JEHL

Carpet said:


> Cost is a factor too. Putting $10 tips and a $20 cable on a $20 KZ raises a serious question. Would you have been better off buying something like an SG-01 OVA or Mele in the first place. It's very easy to overlook included accessories.
> 
> That scales up as well, for two $50 IEMs you could have something like an Aria or YST-02 plus change. And so on up the chain...


If only it existed back then when I ordered the BL-03 in May 2020. I'd probably have the Moondrop Chu right now. Full set of spring tips and hardwired cable. Very little room if any for scalability, but already works great as is.


----------



## requal (Jul 3, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Cost is a factor too. Putting $10 tips and a $20 cable on a $20 KZ raises a serious question. Would you have been better off buying something like an SG-01 OVA or Mele in the first place. It's very easy to overlook included accessories.
> 
> That scales up as well, for two $50 IEMs you could have something like an Aria or YST-02 plus change. And so on up the chain...


The more expensive the earphones I buy, the more critical I am towards them. None of them are issues free.

Recently I have convinced myself of the theories of this crazy guy from YT Sharur and back to Harman like tuned earphones. I planing to sell my Dunu Est112 and take Variations. EQ is enought.


----------



## Tzennn (Jul 3, 2022)

requal said:


> The more expensive the earphones I buy, the more critical I am towards them. None of them are issues free.
> 
> Recently I have convinced myself of the theories of this crazy guy from YT Sharur and back to Harman like tuned earphones. I planing to sell my Dunu Est112 and take Variations. EQ is enought.


as someone who broke af, i agree. EQ for justice


----------



## jananan78

JEHL said:


> If only it existed back then when I ordered the BL-03 in May 2020. I'd probably have the Moondrop Chu right now. Full set of spring tips and hardwired cable. Very little room if or scalability, but already works great as is.


moondrop chu is worth getting for the spring tips. i find it more comfortable and enhances treble extension better.


----------



## rambomhtri

rambomhtri said:


> Can ANYBODY confirm (as in actually check it in their smartphone) if the model "*KZ SK10 Pro*" supports and works in aptX HD?
> That means it is working at 576 kbps, 24 bit, 48 kHz, instead of the regular aptX that works at 384 kbps, 16 bit, and up to 48kHz (normally lower).
> 
> The bluetooth menu sometimes lies, as in it shows an option to enable "aptX HD" but it actually does not change anything. You have to check it in developer settings:
> ...



Anyone?
This is not organized, since there are thousands of KZ models, it's really hard to talk about a specific model in this vast generic thread. There should be subgroups for each model so users can talk directly to the owners of the same product.


----------



## Ceilidh

rambomhtri said:


> Anyone?
> This is not organized, since there are thousands of KZ models, it's really hard to talk about a specific model in this vast generic thread. There should be subgroups for each model so users can talk directly to the owners of the same product.


Why don't you create a topic about this matter ? That'd be easier to find and follow.


----------



## rambomhtri

Ceilidh said:


> Why don't you create a topic about this matter ? That'd be easier to find and follow.


Isn't this the only thread to talk about KZ products?
Ideally there should be a thread for each specific product, and then a general KZ thread like this one for general things for the company.


----------



## lgcubana

rambomhtri said:


> Anyone?
> This is not organized, since there are thousands of KZ models, it's really hard to talk about a specific model in this vast generic thread. There should be subgroups for each model so users can talk directly to the owners of the same product.


If posters conform to mentioning their respective IEM in each post, the “Search this thread” field would then become useful.


----------



## Carpet (Jul 3, 2022)

jananan78 said:


> moondrop chu is worth getting for the spring tips. i find it more comfortable and enhances treble extension better.


Sadly the Moondrop Chu comes with s/m/l tips. If you take large tips normally, you probably need XL spring tips as they're smaller fitting than normal. So three sets of tips that won't fit.


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> Sadly the Moondrop Chu comes with s/m/l tips. If you take large tips normally, you probably need XL spring tips as they're smaller fitting than normal. So three sets of tips that won't fit.


yes they are slightly smaller than spinfits. i use large spring tips when medium spinfits are equivalent. spring tips are softer and thinner than spring tips even XL would fit snugly and provide better isolation at the expense of comfort maybe as i can still use large spinfits albeit it's tighter fit  depends how snug you want your fit to be.


----------



## DynamicEars

rambomhtri said:


> Isn't this the only thread to talk about KZ products?
> Ideally there should be a thread for each specific product, and then a general KZ thread like this one for general things for the company.



Sub thread of KZ products? that will be covering few pages on KZs only 
Sorry i don't have KZ SK10 Pro, I only have Z1 and current flagship tws VX10 from them, both no APTX, checked on developer options


----------



## rambomhtri

DynamicEars said:


> Sub thread of KZ products? that will be covering few pages on KZs only
> Sorry i don't have KZ SK10 Pro, I only have Z1 and current flagship tws VX10 from them, both no APTX, checked on developer options


I know, but it's what it takes, just like any other brand. If you join all the SONY headsets you will have hundreds of threads too, for example. It would be really helpful for all users to have a dedicated thread for each product, under KZ sub-group. Forums like xda do this, and it's so easy to discuss and find solutions for a specific device, where only owners of that device participate.

"Flagship" VX10 is known to use AAC, which is inferior to aptX HD. KZ advertises it to work with AAC, so it's fine. The problem is KZ advertises models like KZ Z3 to work with aptX HD, which I bought for that reason, just to find out it was all a lie. I bought at the same time the SK10 Pro which is advertised as well to work with aptX HD, and I wanted to know before hand if it's another lie.


----------



## jananan78

rambomhtri said:


> I know, but it's what it takes, just like any other brand. If you join all the SONY headsets you will have hundreds of threads too, for example. It would be really helpful for all users to have a dedicated thread for each product, under KZ sub-group. Forums like xda do this, and it's so easy to discuss and find solutions for a specific device, where only owners of that device participate.
> 
> "Flagship" VX10 is known to use AAC, which is inferior to aptX HD. KZ advertises it to work with AAC, so it's fine. The problem is KZ advertises models like KZ Z3 to work with aptX HD, which I bought for that reason, just to find out it was all a lie. I bought at the same time the SK10 Pro which is advertised as well to work with aptX HD, and I wanted to know before hand if it's another lie.


maybe the chip from Qualcomm supports but they didn't implement it ? keeping for the next iteration of products? but they should not advertise it if they didn't implement it.


----------



## Ceilidh

There are also a bunch of issues with Android and Bluetooth in general, in my experience.
I had issues with app being a bit too exclusive and locking out other apps from using "hires" codecs, whatever output I was using, just by having that app installed.
So no hires from jack, USB DAC or bluetooth despite using a Qudelix 5K, everything was locked at 16bits/48kHz, standard AptX or the lowest LDAC option available through Poweramp, and I had to uninstall a bunch of audio apps until I found the one that was interfering (which was a virtual synthesizer app, strangely enough).
I might also be misremembering it, but I think I read somewhere that Qualcom might limit some functionalities from their chip, except if the device maker was buying some kind of licence to use said functionalities.
Can't remember the details so, as I said, but that apparently used to be an issue with some phones, even if you tweaked the devs options. 
My guess is that, if you're able to get AptX HD by using another pair of TWS with your device, then the Z3 doesn't and so KZ is using false advertising.


----------



## punpun

Hi, which KBear 07 tips size should I choose if medium sized stock KZ tips fit me well? There's 3 medium sized KBear's so it's hard to choose.


----------



## rambomhtri

Ceilidh said:


> There are also a bunch of issues with Android and Bluetooth in general, in my experience.
> I had issues with app being a bit too exclusive and locking out other apps from using "hires" codecs, whatever output I was using, just by having that app installed.
> So no hires from jack, USB DAC or bluetooth despite using a Qudelix 5K, everything was locked at 16bits/48kHz, standard AptX or the lowest LDAC option available through Poweramp, and I had to uninstall a bunch of audio apps until I found the one that was interfering (which was a virtual synthesizer app, strangely enough).
> I might also be misremembering it, but I think I read somewhere that Qualcom might limit some functionalities from their chip, except if the device maker was buying some kind of licence to use said functionalities.
> ...


I have a POCO F2 Pro with 2020 (or 2021?) flagship Qualcomm Snapdragon 865, which supports aptX HD. The KZ BT 5.0 cable I use with my non-BT iem's (KZ ZS7) does work in aptX HD (and sounds fantastic!), but KZ Z3 will only work in aptX. So yeah, it's not my device.

I'm talking to KZ so they refund me all or most part for false advertising and the waste of time.


----------



## StacoHRP

punpun said:


> Hi, which KBear 07 tips size should I choose if medium sized stock KZ tips fit me well? There's 3 medium sized KBear's so it's hard to choose.


Just recently bought the M- (Medium Small black stem) Kbear07. Snug fit when using M starline KZ tips. I also have the M (Medium white stem) size too but unfortunately too big to slide on to my ears, cant get deep enough.


----------



## Carpet

punpun said:


> Hi, which KBear 07 tips size should I choose if medium sized stock KZ tips fit me well? There's 3 medium sized KBear's so it's hard to choose.


Large medium and small do correspond to the KZ sizes, but you're better buying the pack of five mixed sizes. You maty find that both ears aren't exactly the same size. You may also want to go up or down a size depending on how deep the insertion depth is for different IEMs. Once you find a size that works best, you can buy packs of five of the same size. A few spare tips in different sizes is also handy if you want to let others listen to your IEMs. I  wonder how hooking others into the hobby, by passing out small zip-lock bags of eartips, looks to an outside observer?

If you like the KBEAR 07 it's a win as they are inexpensive.


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## punpun (Jul 4, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Large medium and small do correspond to the KZ sizes, but you're better buying the pack of five mixed sizes. You maty find that both ears aren't exactly the same size. You may also want to go up or down a size depending on how deep the insertion depth is for different IEMs. Once you find a size that works best, you can buy packs of five of the same size. A few spare tips in different sizes is also handy if you want to let others listen to your IEMs. I  wonder how hooking others into the hobby, by passing out small zip-lock bags of eartips, looks to an outside observer?
> 
> If you like the KBEAR 07 it's a win as they are inexpensive.


I'm mainly looking into sound improvements with the KBear's, not really a question of whether I will like them because, frankly, I am content with the stock tips provided by KZ (no other reference).


----------



## Carpet

punpun said:


> I'm mainly looking into sound improvements with the KBear's, not really a question of whether I will like them because, frankly, I am content with the stock tips provided by KZ (no other reference).



They are my preferred tips, smoother treble without strangling it. You should notice a big improvement over KZ tips. They came included with TRI Meteor, never looked back!


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

punpun said:


> Hi, which KBear 07 tips size should I choose if medium sized stock KZ tips fit me well? There's 3 medium sized KBear's so it's hard to choose.


Just an FYI the KBear 2 pin/qdc cables are like 5 bucks and kick ass.  Have them in all my favorite items.

Have people had good luck with the tips?


----------



## rayliam80

Dr Rez said:


> Just an FYI the KBear 2 pin/qdc cables are like 5 bucks and kick ass.  Have them in all my favorite items.
> 
> Have people had good luck with the tips?



I've heard good things about them and some people compare them to Acoustune eartips which are a little more expensive. I'm thinking of buying some just to try out since they're available on Amazon now.


----------



## SiggyFraud

rambomhtri said:


> I have a POCO F2 Pro with 2020 (or 2021?) flagship Qualcomm Snapdragon 865, which supports aptX HD. The KZ BT 5.0 cable I use with my non-BT iem's (KZ ZS7) does work in aptX HD (and sounds fantastic!), but KZ Z3 will only work in aptX. So yeah, it's not my device.
> 
> I'm talking to KZ so they refund me all or most part for false advertising and the waste of time.


If you have some KZs lying around (or any other IEMs with QDC termination), you should consider a BT adapter like KZ AZ09 Pro. It supports AptX Adaptive, surprisingly not advertised by KZ, which works great with Android phones and BT transmitters such as this one.


----------



## rambomhtri

SiggyFraud said:


> If you have some KZs lying around (or any other IEMs with QDC termination), you should consider a BT adapter like KZ AZ09 Pro. It supports AptX Adaptive, surprisingly not advertised by KZ, which works great with Android phones and BT transmitters such as this one.







They do advertise it supports aptX HD. The reason I don't buy this BT adapter is because:

1. I own the KZ ZS7 with A paragraph pin, which is not compatible

2. I already own a BT adapter, the grey KZ BT 5.0 cable, which works fantastic and sounds amazing.

3. Also, a TWS is just better: no adapter, no extra stuff, just the IEM and that's it. I used the KZ ZS7 + BT cable, but a TWS beats it when commuting and traveling, I don't like to carry extra stuff or big boxes, and also wearing just a regular IEM beats wearing an IEM + an adapter.


----------



## SiggyFraud

rambomhtri said:


> They do advertise it supports aptX HD. The reason I don't buy this BT adapter is because:
> 
> 1. I own the KZ ZS7 with A paragraph pin, which is not compatible
> 
> ...


Actually I'm pretty sure the "HD" in their marketing materials stands for "HD Pure Sound Quality", and not AptX HD. So it's more of a sales gimmick, it seems.
AptX HD is not mentioned anywhere else in the AZ09 Pro specification.


----------



## Rocket222

rambomhtri said:


> They do advertise it supports aptX HD. The reason I don't buy this BT adapter is because:
> 
> 1. I own the KZ ZS7 with A paragraph pin, which is not compatible
> 
> ...



The message should read "APT-X, HD Pure Sound Quality" (an addition comma between APT-X and HD).  I can confirm my purchase of AZ09 PRO in May does not support APTX-HD or APTX Adaptive, even it has BT5.2; it supports *ONLY APTX (classic)*.


----------



## Carpet

Rocket222 said:


> The message should read "APT-X, HD Pure Sound Quality" (an addition comma between APT-X and HD).  I can confirm my purchase of AZ09 PRO in May does not support APTX-HD or APTX Adaptive, even it has BT5.2; it supports *ONLY APTX (classic)*.


I can't for the life of me remember where, but I can recall mention of firmware upgrades for a BT product including support for additional codecs. The same BT chip is in other products that also support Aptx HD and Aptx LL. So it's analogous to having a ray tracing graphics card and playing a game that doesn't support that feature. The way the advertising was presented is very misleading, if the advertising was from a western manufacturer their would be potential repercussions. But this product was from a Chinese company. People who put the "and nasty" back in "cheap".


----------



## RikudouGoku

Carpet said:


> but I can recall mention of firmware upgrades for a BT product including support for additional codecs.


yes, that is possible. As codecs are purely software based.


----------



## independent (Jul 6, 2022)

Hi everyone. I know the BA KZs aren't flavour of the month here. But I just thought I'd mention something I've found to be a good repeatable combination.

So, my favorite love / hate IEMs are the KZ ASX. I actually bought them late one night thinking I was buying the AST. Anyways, after reading about the difference between the two I'm pretty sure it was a happy mistake.

I've had 2x pairs of ZS7s and I loved them, and they _were_ really good. I've had some of the cheaper KZs as well. Since I got my not so loved (quality control issues, not sound quality issues) ASXs I've been concentrating my attention on all BA architecture IEMS.

I love bass music. The resolution of the all BA IEM really has a nuance, detail, power and something I've not heard but in the best sound systems from large dance parties (yes the old days). Actually, I havent heard as good a bass as I have with these. Im on the fence with the ASF Ive got. Need to spend more time with them. The as12 was good however Im treble sensitive. But they are good. Definitely not screamers like the old ZS6 were.

Anyway, here's the combo. ESS Sabre DACs and all BA IEMs with good bass drivers. I'm onto my 3rd ESS Sabre DAC with IEMS and I have another desktop Sabre DAC. Nothing fancy, but by golly they are a match made in heaven. Unfortunately, 2x DACs have died 9018K based, and I was reluctant to buy another expensive DAC, but when the Tempotec Sonata HD *II* came on sale. Trust me I was watching that shipping tracking page like a hawk  . Its good. It's definitely got good bass resolution. Smooth treble. Effortless bass extension (albeit with driving IEMs). Its great. I can't compare it to the other more expensive and powerful ESS Sabre DAC headphone amps I've owned in the past. Because they died. It's much more listenable than my, reportedly respected, Cirrus based dongle with all the better qualities mentioned above.

These dongles are built to a price point. This Tempotec cannot be used with powered speakers (studio monitors). Also, it has a quirk where you put the 3.5mm jack in first, then attach the dongle to the source. It really is sensitive to earths in this respect. It also produces noise when, say plugged in to a laptop, and the laptop is charging. More so than other ESS Headphone DACs I've owned in the past.

Small sample, but this combo works for me. As a portable solution it's great, I'm going to stick with it.


----------



## rambomhtri (Jul 6, 2022)

Carpet said:


> I can't for the life of me remember where, but I can recall mention of firmware upgrades for a BT product including support for additional codecs. The same BT chip is in other products that also support Aptx HD and Aptx LL. So it's analogous to having a ray tracing graphics card and playing a game that doesn't support that feature. The way the advertising was presented is very misleading, if the advertising was from a western manufacturer their would be potential repercussions. But this product was from a Chinese company. People who put the "and nasty" back in "cheap".





SiggyFraud said:


> Actually I'm pretty sure the "HD" in their marketing materials stands for "HD Pure Sound Quality", and not AptX HD. So it's more of a sales gimmick, it seems.
> AptX HD is not mentioned anywhere else in the AZ09 Pro specification.





Rocket222 said:


> The message should read "APT-X, HD Pure Sound Quality" (an addition comma between APT-X and HD).  I can confirm my purchase of AZ09 PRO in May does not support APTX-HD or APTX Adaptive, even it has BT5.2; it supports *ONLY APTX (classic)*.



Jesus... if they are EFF******* playing at these games of putting a standard known tech name such as apt-X HD, to mean "apt-X, HD sound", they are a bunch of c****. God how I would love to regulate and forbid in the sound market the nonsense "HiFi" or "HD sound" tags and alike. I love the KZ ZS7 and the price-quality of KZ, but you simply DO NOT play those games unless you are a meme company. What daaaa effff...


----------



## jananan78

i smell another round of KZ bashing with the aptx hd now. not that they don't deserve it lol. no matter how cheap they sound honor the specs they published.


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 6, 2022)

independent said:


> Hi everyone. I know the BA KZs aren't flavour of the month here. But I just thought I'd mention something I've found to be a good repeatable combination.
> 
> So, my favorite love / hate IEMs are the KZ ASX. I actually bought them late one night thinking I was buying the AST. Anyways, after reading about the difference between the two I'm pretty sure it was a happy mistake.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you. I have BA10, AS12 and AST. All of these sound great via my Xduoo X20 and Hidizs AP80 Pro X,  both of which have ESS DACs. I also rate the ZS7 highly, that sounds great too! I have not heard the ASX though. Even better, though, are the Hidizs MD4 (4BA). Absolutely superb transparent sound.


----------



## IEMbiker

Nimweth said:


> I have to agree with you. I have BA10, AS12 and AST. All of these sound great via my Xduoo X20 and Hidizs AP80 Pro X,  both of which have ESS DACs. I also rate the ZS7 highly, that sounds great too! I have not heard the ASX though. Even better, though, are the Hidizs MD4 (4BA). Absolutely superb transparent sound.


Revisit my AS12 and listening to Usher tiny desk concert, the live music is so delicious and the vocal and bass quality is superbbbbb. 
The recording is crazy good in a space like this.
Enjoy...


----------



## moisespr123

Nimweth said:


> I have to agree with you. I have BA10, AS12 and AST. All of these sound great via my Xduoo X20 and Hidizs AP80 Pro X,  both of which have ESS DACs. I also rate the ZS7 highly, that sounds great too! I have not heard the ASX though. Even better, though, are the Hidizs MD4 (4BA). Absolutely superb transparent sound.



Interesting, I recently got the SpinFit CP145 for my ZS7 and Hidizs MS4 (not the MD4) and they both seem to sound almost the same. So, I'm using the ZS7 again. The nozzle from my MS4 started to get detached and have to be very careful not to break it. It's still hard to get out, but it seems it may break anyday now.

So I vote for KZ to somehow make a ZS7 Pro model or real successor with its sound signature.


----------



## rambomhtri

moisespr123 said:


> Interesting, I recently got the SpinFit CP145 for my ZS7 and Hidizs MS4 (not the MD4) and they both seem to sound almost the same. So, I'm using the ZS7 again. The nozzle from my MS4 started to get detached and have to be very careful not to break it. It's still hard to get out, but it seems it may break anyday now.
> 
> So I vote for KZ to somehow make a ZS7 Pro model or real successor with its sound signature.


It will. That's why I don't buy plastic IEMs, they suck, period.

A mechanized piece of heaven like KZ ZS7 is what you need if you want to go truly professional. *What KZ ZS7 Pro would have that KZ ZS7 don't have?*
I've been using them since their release and I still use them as my daily driver, it's simply top notch quality in all aspects. I don't find them bassy or unbalanced, if that were the case I would have bought another one.

The only thing I don't like about KZ ZS7 is the pin: it's not very common and the mechanism is not that good. A good solid pin like the 7 pin or MMCX would be awesome.


----------



## moisespr123

rambomhtri said:


> It will. That's why I don't buy plastic IEMs, they suck, period.
> 
> A mechanized piece of heaven like KZ ZS7 is what you need if you want to go truly professional. *What KZ ZS7 Pro would have that KZ ZS7 don't have?*
> I've been using them since their release and I still use them as my daily driver, it's simply top notch quality in all aspects. I don't find them bassy or unbalanced, if that were the case I would have bought another one.
> ...



I think what I'm trying to say is that basically the ZS7 is the only one that has a good bass amount. I find the newer KZ models to have less bass and after a time, I need to reduce the volume because of the treble/peaks. With the ZS7 even with a lower volume, I can still hear the bass. The Hidizs MS4 has a bit more refined instrument clarity that on the ZS7, on some songs the difference may be noticeable. I'm not sure if this may be because the MS4 has the treble driver in the nozzle and the ZS7 has it in the internal chamber with the other BAs. I'm no IEM expert, but a ZS7 Pro could have better instrument detail while keeping the same amount of bass? I'm just saying, I still like them and the CP145 tips made a positive difference.


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 7, 2022)

moisespr123 said:


> Yes, Interesting, I recently got the SpinFit CP145 for my ZS7 and Hidizs MS4 (not the MD4) and they both seem to sound almost the same. So, I'm using the ZS7 again. The nozzle from my MS4 started to get detached and have to be very careful not to break it. It's still hard to get out, but it seems it may break anyday now.
> 
> So I vote for KZ to somehow make a ZS7 Pro model or real successor with its sound signature.


Yes, the ZS7 is special. It's that 4-way configuration with the 31005 midrange BA, the same as the BA10, another great KZ IEM. As you say there is no BA in the nozzle and the bass is exceptional. I also vote for a ZS7 pro (and a BA10 Pro as well!)


----------



## moisespr123

Besides the ZS7, I find I also like the DQ6S and the ZES. They have a good bass response and good details, but unfortunately, they do fatigue me after a while.


----------



## Carpet

independent said:


> Hi everyone. I know the BA KZs aren't flavour of the month here. But I just thought I'd mention something I've found to be a good repeatable combination.
> 
> So, my favorite love / hate IEMs are the KZ ASX. I actually bought them late one night thinking I was buying the AST. Anyways, after reading about the difference between the two I'm pretty sure it was a happy mistake.
> 
> ...


I picked the KZ ASF up when they were selling it for $11. The sound was better than I expected given the reviews. Quite fun to listen to, but they weren't very comfortable with the huge wing. Given how thick it was too, I can happily label it as a lead contender for "Worst earphone for sleeping". It almost feels like you have a full sized pair of headphones stuck in your ear. I find the later KZ/CCA semi-custom IEMs to be pretty good, at least they learnt something. Bass was impressive and at least this was a pair that didn't have the KZ overdone treble.

I should probably get them out and have another listen


----------



## independent (Jul 7, 2022)

Carpet said:


> I picked the KZ ASF up when they were selling it for $11. The sound was better than I expected given the reviews. Quite fun to listen to, but they weren't very comfortable with the huge wing. Given how thick it was too, I can happily label it as a lead contender for "Worst earphone for sleeping". It almost feels like you have a full sized pair of headphones stuck in your ear. I find the later KZ/CCA semi-custom IEMs to be pretty good, at least they learnt something. Bass was impressive and at least this was a pair that didn't have the KZ overdone treble.
> 
> I should probably get them out and have another listen


Yeah me too. Some people here have reviewed it to be flabby in the bass dept. Some have said it's identical to the ASX. Listening to my well known tracks I use to compare IEMS. The bass is OK actually really good. Subbass resolution is there but maybe, just maybe, ever so slightly more muffled than the ASX. The ASF also goes _deeeep_ when needed. The sound signature or profile is identical to the ASX. They aren't identical sounding though, but very very close. The worst thing about this generation IEM from KZ is the really terrible sound hole mesh. It's very flimsy and impossible to clean without damaging it. I just remove the mesh. Really bad design. In comparison, the AS12 has a very nice solid metal (stainless?) easily cleanable sound exit port.

Somewhere in this thread I think someone might state that the wing is non-functional and can be removed, sanded or filed off perhaps. If you are interested in doing that mod might be worth looking for the comment/poster.

However, I doubt you'd be able to prevent the big-thing-jammed-in-your-earholes feeling with this IEM. As you know, the way the sound nozzle is configured half the IEM is right inside the ear cavity. Hence the tiny stubby eartips that aren't compatible with normal ones.


----------



## Carpet

independent said:


> Yeah me too. Some people here have reviewed it to be flabby in the bass dept. Some have said it's identical to the ASX. Listening to my well known tracks I use to compare IEMS. The bass is OK actually really good. Subbass resolution is there but maybe, just maybe, ever so slightly more muffled than the ASX. The ASF also goes _deeeep_ when needed. The sound signature or profile is identical to the ASX. They aren't identical sounding though, but very very close. The worst thing about this generation IEM from KZ is the really terrible sound hole mesh. It's very flimsy and impossible to clean without damaging it. I just remove the mesh. Really bad design. In comparison, the AS12 has a very nice solid metal (stainless?) easily cleanable sound exit port.
> 
> Somewhere in this thread I think someone might state that the wing is non-functional and can be removed, sanded or filed off perhaps. If you are interested in doing that mod might be worth looking for the comment/poster.
> 
> However, I doubt you'd be able to prevent the big-thing-jammed-in-your-earholes feeling with this IEM. As you know, the way the sound nozzle is configured half the IEM is right inside the ear cavity. Hence the tiny stubby eartips that aren't compatible with normal ones.


KBEAR 08 tips (the dark blue ones), work well on those smaller nozzles. I used to have problems with tips getting left behind in my ear with the CCA CA16 which was a real PITA. Well more an annoyance than pain, and only in the ear (I've at least figured that much out with IEMs). The original CP100s used to be the smallest tips I had at 3.8mm but the KBEAR 08 is about 3.3mm. 
I think the DQ6 had a small nozzle too, so they should work on those as well.


----------



## bhazard

Got the ESX. Sounds great with minor adjustments.

Another $20 winner, although now I'm getting a bit tired of similar releases all at once like the EDA Balanced, CRA+, and ESX.


----------



## rayliam80

bhazard said:


> Got the ESX. Sounds great with minor adjustments.
> 
> Another $20 winner, although now I'm getting a bit tired of similar releases all at once like the EDA Balanced, CRA+, and ESX.



I was tempted by the ESX and the KZ EDX Ultra and just decided to wait until next year for some thing else from KZ. I'm still quite happy with my modded CRA, modded DQ6 and even the ASF I got a few months ago. I can't say the same for the AS12 (treble fatigue) which I also got at the same time as the ASF. I ordered the HZSound Heart Mirror yesterday along with a few balanced cables (NiceHCK PurpleSE). I'm gonna put a hold on audio purchases until next year. But if KZ were to drop a planar....


----------



## r31ya

bhazard said:


> Got the ESX. Sounds great with minor adjustments.
> 
> Another $20 winner, although now I'm getting a bit tired of similar releases all at once like the EDA Balanced, CRA+, and ESX.


the new unit, CCA Lyra seems to be a single DD with new gen Xundriver with EDA Balanced warm Harman tuning.
so yeah, every other week KZ/CCA release an incremental upgrade.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> the new unit, CCA Lyra seems to be a single DD with new gen Xundriver with EDA Balanced warm Harman tuning.
> so yeah, every other week KZ/CCA release an incremental upgrade.


Maybe we should just buy every fifth or sixth release?


----------



## r31ya (Jul 8, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Maybe we should just buy every fifth or sixth release?


i'm considering skipping lyra despite how tempting it is.
improved form of EDA-balance with smoother treble that is closer to harman target. it came with new gen XunDriver and with pretty gorgeous shell.

but if review is that good, i'm might buckled in.
problem being i might run out of people to give my second hand to (heh).


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> Maybe we should just buy every fifth or sixth release?


I'm waiting for kz to put a BA with the ZES 12mm DD. since my ZEX Pro was a letdown with the inaudible third driver and based on older 10mm DD.


----------



## boncel

hello all, just wanna share my finding .
eda balance  is nice
however original eartips meh...
tips rolling through some tips, find something that really goooooood
by using RHA biflange 😁😁😁


----------



## jant71

Carpet said:


> Maybe we should just buy every fifth or sixth release?


I got DQ6 then CRA and I will get Lyra. Nothing in between. Think I am doing it right.


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> I'm waiting for kz to put a BA with the ZES 12mm DD. since my ZEX Pro was a letdown with the inaudible third driver and based on older 10mm DD.


I still have ZEX Pro, it still sees use as a knock around set. The tuning is okay and they aren't harsh or sibilant. Yes, I'm still pissed off at KZ. So I'll wear those out in the rain where I wouldn't risk $100+ IEMs.


----------



## XerusKun

This is good..👌


----------



## r31ya

XerusKun said:


> This is good..👌


wow thats mighty impressive... you manage to use the pen till nearly empty before losing it.
the graph seems interesting, considering its a different DD and shell i can't exactly say its CCA take on KZ Eda-bal.


----------



## XerusKun

r31ya said:


> wow thats mighty impressive... you manage to use the pen till nearly empty before losing it.
> the graph seems interesting, considering its a different DD and shell i can't exactly say its CCA take on KZ Eda-bal.


The pen is almost 2 months old now. Plus I don't let anyone use it... So yeah. 😆

Lyra and EDA Bal is pretty similar in tonality though, the main differences I found is the bass response (seems to be better with EDA Bal) and soundstage presentation, the timbre is also more organic and less metallic with Lyra.


----------



## saldsald

XerusKun said:


> This is good..👌


Do you have the DQ6/CSN to compare with?


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> wow thats mighty impressive... you manage to use the pen till nearly empty before losing it.


Dude... lol


----------



## Unolord

The ESX arrived today. I told myself that I was done with KZ but somehow I got pulled back in...

Well, a better than average AE coupon plus a store coupon that brought the price down to $10.60 CAD/8.16 USD is probably the biggest reason why...

After a brief run listening to Anglagard's Hyrbis, the ESX are decent, plenty of bass without any bloat or bleed. Mids are recessed though. Now the treble, which is usually the reason why I never seem to reach for a KZ/CCA IEM except for the CA16 from time to time, is actually very smooth and controlled. 

I don't think the ESX will replace the Chu as my beater pair, even with that crap cable and ear hooks, but compared to some of the more recent KZ buys like the ZEX Pro, this is one that I might come back to for a change of pace.

All that said, for a so called anniversary edition, the accessories are as K(z)rappy as usual. Tossing in some coin in the box does not make it special. A few dollars more and throw in one of their nicer blue or green upgrade cables or a case. I know KZ doesn't really know what premium accessories are - a black box and a hunk of metal? -  but take a page from some of the competition. I don't like Spring Tips but I learned that because MoonDrop threw them in with the Chu for little or no mark up along with a pouch as a bonus.

Ok, rant over. 

The KZ ESX, pretty decent.


----------



## moisespr123

Unolord said:


> The ESX arrived today. I told myself that I was done with KZ but somehow I got pulled back in...
> 
> Well, a better than average AE coupon plus a store coupon that brought the price down to $10.60 CAD/8.16 USD is probably the biggest reason why...
> 
> ...


Nice! I myself don't know it I'll ever continue getting new audio gear. I have to admit I was addicted to getting new gear and I do get the temptation to get the new KZ models. However, I think I should stop. I myself revisited the KZ ZS7 and got the medium SpinFit CP145 and I'm liking what I hear. 

Sure, its fun to try new stuff, but I think I'll take some time enjoying what I currently have. 

Enjoy your ESX. Glad to know they are decent 🙂.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 11, 2022)

*KZ and other brands (and reviewers of "free samples")*

Recently, I had an opportunity to get Master & Dynamic ME05 from Amazon  on a nice tip from a fellow HeadFi-er.
$8 in US, in Canada it was acceptable $12 - so why would not  miss a chance to experience an IEM with the MRSP of whooping $200 and to compare with the recent single-dynamic KZ IEMs!

So here we are.

*Pros*: the package of ME05 is quite ample: case, tips, spare filters.
The tips are nice: four of themand while basic, the large one are really large (13.5-14 mm) and fitting me nicely, as well being my favourite large bores, so I was sure to experience all the bass and more open treble.
iEM look fairly elegant.
A decent dynamic driver.
Some sparkle and dynamucs are there, but a bit tubby/plasticksy.

*Cons*: non- replaceable noodle-like cable with unbearable (for any moves) microphonics; the case while nice is hardly any practical.
Can be OK for $10-$15, but hardly competitive at $25+ even with nice accessories, IMHO

*The bottom line*: compared to the current crop of KZ/CCA, (I largely did to a bit less treble-rich ESX as a more direct/fair comparison) ME05 is a notch below and is hardly competitive in about everything: timbre, dynamics, extension, stage; as it may be not unreasonable to expect for circa 2014 IEM, given all the recent amazing progress.

Now, my favourite/unfavourite part of the reviews of ME05 from those reviewers of "free samples" dating not from 2014/2015 but recent 2021! Those guys were getting "$200 free IEM" and surely shaped/biased their revews accordingly. I won't name them, one can easily google. Amazing to read how "worthy", "meritorious", nice" ME05 is in their opinion, while actually listening to them side by side with $20 KZs and chuckling sadly.

Not mentioning explicitly the horrible microphonics is a real shame if not a crime....

"The mass hysteria" to quote one of the most notorious HeadFi reviewer, the hysteria propagated by those reviewers... Really sad and decimating this hobby 

Give all this "reviwer" bias, one can safely bet that ESX sent as a free $200-300 review sample will get all the glorious reviews, while ME05 sent as $10 KZ (and I personally would not pay more!) will get teared apart absolutely brutally!

I am sure the close-knit ChiFI village is already laughing quietly about it for quite some time now with different brands assembled in the same factory.


----------



## Unolord

moisespr123 said:


> Nice! I myself don't know it I'll ever continue getting new audio gear. I have to admit I was addicted to getting new gear and I do get the temptation to get the new KZ models. However, I think I should stop. I myself revisited the KZ ZS7 and got the medium SpinFit CP145 and I'm liking what I hear.
> 
> Sure, its fun to try new stuff, but I think I'll take some time enjoying what I currently have.
> 
> Enjoy your ESX. Glad to know they are decent 🙂



Yeah, I really don't need the ESX, just like I didn't need the CCA CRA (paid $8 CAD) or the ZEX Pro. Sometimes the hype train is a nice ride, sometimes you get knocked onto the third rail by the hype train, sometimes you don't even bother going to the station. I plan on avoiding the station. At least for the next 4-6 months.

At this point, I feel like I'm more a MoonDrop fan. The Aria, SSP and Chu are my primary IEM's right now unless I can get a higher tier MoonDrop at the next 11-11 sale for an amazing price, like the Kato. I just find their tuning mindset more in line with my tastes.

Now if I could only get the Variations, Blessing 2 or S8 for $8....


----------



## r31ya

Unolord said:


> Yeah, I really don't need the ESX, just like I didn't need the CCA CRA (paid $8 CAD) or the ZEX Pro. Sometimes the hype train is a nice ride, sometimes you get knocked onto the third rail by the hype train, sometimes you don't even bother going to the station. I plan on avoiding the station. At least for the next 4-6 months.
> 
> At this point, I feel like I'm more a MoonDrop fan. The Aria, SSP and Chu are my primary IEM's right now unless I can get a higher tier MoonDrop at the next 11-11 sale for an amazing price, like the Kato. I just find their tuning mindset more in line with my tastes.
> 
> Now if I could only get the Variations, Blessing 2 or S8 for $8....


my music library is filled with half of pop-ballad and the other half is heavy rock.
OG Aria is sublime for the pop-ballad half. the lush holographic vocals, female vocals especially is awesome.
but for heavy rock music, it kinda lacking the oomph. 

hence i look for iem for the other half as well as look for a beater that i could use while biking in the rain or something.
Eda-bal and esx is surprisingly close to great in that aspect, pretty decent for pop-ballad and (esx especially) good for heavy rock. Eespecially at the price.
but it kinda lack of the resolution a bit, but its not as jarring as Tanya who have chunky notes that good for rock but a fair bit muddy in resolution.

Recent Lyra review is pretty good. but it seems the second gen Xun Dynamic driver, while good it still carries its father penchant for boomy bass.


----------



## Unolord

r31ya said:


> my music library is filled with half of pop-ballad and the other half is heavy rock.
> OG Aria is sublime for the pop-ballad half. the lush holographic vocals, female vocals especially is awesome.
> but for heavy rock music, it kinda lacking the oomph.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I get it.

After several hours and differing albums I think the ESX is pretty good for Rock and Metal. Male voices def sound better than females. Resolution is lacking somewhat, but there's enough there for an enjoyable listen as a beater/commuter pair.

I don't like the styling of the Lyra at all. I thought the EDX Ultra was ugly but the Lyra... I guess if you're going to toss out a new IEM every Tuesday you're going to run out of ideas for styling.


----------



## smy1 (Jul 12, 2022)

I been out of the game for a awhile now so I was bored and ordered the az09 pro, zex and edx because they were cheap. I think my last KZ was the zs10 when they were released.

Any recommendation for $50? Maybe something bright and good on the vocals?


----------



## r31ya

smy1 said:


> I been out of the game for a awhile now so I was bored and ordered the az09 pro, zex and edx because they were cheap. I think my last KZ was the zs10 when they were released.
> 
> Any recommendation for $50? Maybe something bright and good on the vocals?


at $20, KZ EDA-balance. as the name imply it aim for more balanced tuning, have enough omph in bass as well as some mild sparkle in treble. vocal is pretty decent with enough weight and somewhat forward.
at $50 maybe HeartMirror, the default bright iem recommendation


----------



## 4ceratops

smy1 said:


> I been out of the game for a awhile now so I was bored and ordered the az09 pro, zex and edx because they were cheap. I think my last KZ was the zs10 when they were released.
> 
> Any recommendation for $50? Maybe something bright and good on the vocals?


     Up to 50 euros for me at the moment definitely Reecho OVA SG-01. Everything essential about them is summarized in the following thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/reecho-ova-sg-01.25823/reviews

     I recommend them especially for vocal and acoustic music, but that's more or less only because of their well above average quality in this price range. Otherwise, they are basically very versatile.


----------



## smy1

4ceratops said:


> Up to 50 euros for me at the moment definitely Reecho OVA SG-01. Everything essential about them is summarized in the following thread.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/reecho-ova-sg-01.25823/reviews
> 
> I recommend them especially for vocal and acoustic music, but that's more or less only because of their well above average quality in this price range. Otherwise, they are basically very versatile.


Will these be compatible with the az09 pro? Trying to find something compatible for Bluetooth.


----------



## 4ceratops

smy1 said:


> Will these be compatible with the az09 pro? Trying to find something compatible for Bluetooth.


Unfortunately not, then you are left to choose something with a QDC connector. I'd recommend the TRN TA1 Max, which are great hybrids for 50 euros, but have a more emphasized bass section, but in a very sympathetic way, without bleeding into the mids. Combined with the KZ AZ09 pro it's a great rig for going out, even in noisier environments, thanks to the quality bass and the reserve given by the high sensitivity of the IEM. I have personally tested it, being the happy owner of both the BT adapter and the aforementioned IEMs. Following is a link to the TRN TA1 Max reviews so you can form a better opinion.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-ta1-max-universal-in-ear-monitor.25854/reviews


----------



## 4ceratops

smy1 said:


> Will these be compatible with the az09 pro? Trying to find something compatible for Bluetooth.


And I forgot to note that the TRN TA1 Max are equipped with higher quality internals and are, in my opinion, much more skillfully tuned than anything KZ/CCA's current offerings that I've had the pleasure of handling (ZEX, ZEXpro, CRA, CRA+, AST).


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

smy1 said:


> I been out of the game for a awhile now so I was bored and ordered the az09 pro, zex and edx because they were cheap. I think my last KZ was the zs10 when they were released.
> 
> Any recommendation for $50? Maybe something bright and good on the vocals?


As a fellow AZ09 Pro user, I'd say just ensure that your modules have some warranty coverage because I received two modules and both of them had a failure in left module where it slowly stopped charging and got frequently disconnected. I'm just sharing my experience just as a word of caution. Because my assumption is that it is a batch related issue but not sure.


----------



## r31ya

after experimenting with half a dozen single DD, KZ finally return to BA IEM.
Well... True old KZ heritage, an 8 BA IEM



No news on what BA used or pricing info yet.
but with recent KZ re-tuning effort and being well aware on the old drama, hopefully this will be good.


----------



## smy1

4ceratops said:


> Unfortunately not, then you are left to choose something with a QDC connector. I'd recommend the TRN TA1 Max, which are great hybrids for 50 euros, but have a more emphasized bass section, but in a very sympathetic way, without bleeding into the mids. Combined with the KZ AZ09 pro it's a great rig for going out, even in noisier environments, thanks to the quality bass and the reserve given by the high sensitivity of the IEM. I have personally tested it, being the happy owner of both the BT adapter and the aforementioned IEMs. Following is a link to the TRN TA1 Max reviews so you can form a better opinion.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/trn-ta1-max-universal-in-ear-monitor.25854/reviews


Sorry but is the QDC connector and the C pin connector the same? It looks like I got the az09 pro c pin


----------



## Carpet

smy1 said:


> Sorry but is the QDC connector and the C pin connector the same? It looks like I got the az09 pro c pin


KZ C-type connector is QDC. Although XINHS and ivipQ do a separate KZ-QDC connector as well as regular QDC. I believe it is because the polarity is reversed. But reversed polarity should have no effect if both channels are reversed, since they would remain in phase.


----------



## smy1

Carpet said:


> KZ C-type connector is QDC. Although XINHS and ivipQ do a separate KZ-QDC connector as well as regular QDC. I believe it is because the polarity is reversed. But reversed polarity should have no effect if both channels are reversed, since they would remain in phase.


Ah I see. I am assuming the az09 pro would work with the zex then as well?


----------



## Carpet

smy1 said:


> Ah I see. I am assuming the az09 pro would work with the zex then as well?


So long as you have the C pin version, you should be good.


----------



## MacAttack7




----------



## evasb

From @XerusKun


----------



## KipNix (Jul 15, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> *KZ and other brands (and reviewers of "free samples")*
> 
> Recently, I had an opportunity to get Master & Dynamic ME05 from Amazon  on a nice tip from a fellow HeadFi-er.
> $8 in US, in Canada it was acceptable $12 - so why would not  miss a chance to experience an IEM with the MRSP of whooping $200 and to compare with the recent single-dynamic KZ IEMs!
> ...



My sentiments, exactly, PhonoPhi.

I learned 2 things since buying the Master Dynamic ME05. (You learn something from every experience.)

-Avoid the online magazine hype train. I have my suspicions about how the company was able to get only positive reviews from this product.

-Marvel at the state-of-the-art drivers these days (2022). I compared this to the KZ EDX. I was stunned at how much better the EDX sounded; a $10 IEM.

Would I recommend ME05 at $10? Nope. I'll donate mine locally.


----------



## SartWaiting

Guys! Has anyone taken measurements of the FR KZ ESX w/o nylon mesh?


----------



## XerusKun (Jul 16, 2022)

SartWaiting said:


> Guys! Has anyone taken measurements of the FR KZ ESX w/o nylon mesh?


Yeap




Here's another measurement but with Tanya filter..don't try this its too bassy. That pinna is really needed to counter the bass.


----------



## BoomBap08

Hey, guys!

KZ ZAX vs. TRN VX Pro (Standard version). Thoughts?


----------



## TheVortex

My quick graph of the KZ AS16 Pro.


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 18, 2022)

An image of the new AS16 Pro, it appears to feature 2 x 22955,  2 x 29689 and 4 x 31736 although two of those are hidden. So the same drivers as before, but perhaps the "S" versions of the BAs.


----------



## rayliam80

MacAttack7 said:


>



I actually like the appearance of these, much like the CCA Lyra. The only thing though is the lettering. I think I'd be very tempted to hit it with some light-coarse sandpaper to try to remove it.


----------



## jant71

rayliam80 said:


> I actually like the appearance of these, much like the CCA Lyra. The only thing though is the lettering. I think I'd be very tempted to hit it with some light-coarse sandpaper to try to remove it.


Yeah. What is with putting left and right on the outside face? Don't even need it since you can tell more quickly just from the shape.


----------



## Carpet

BoomBap08 said:


> Hey, guys!
> 
> KZ ZAX vs. TRN VX Pro (Standard version). Thoughts?


ZAX is much cheaper than the VX Pro. CCA CA16 would be worth looking at too, if you like warmer relaxed tunings. Don't get locked into the KZ/TRN ecosystem, there are a lot of other manufacturers that offer better options under $100. Moondrop Aria, Tin T3+, GS Audio GD3C, Tipsy TTROMSO, Tripowin Olina and ECCI YST-02 are all good. They tend to provide better accessories too!


----------



## r31ya

Nimweth said:


> An image of the new AS16 Pro, it appears to feature 2 x 22955,  2 x 29689 and 4 x 31736 although two of those are hidden. So the same drivers as before, but perhaps the "S" versions of the BAs.


They update the treble section with that black BAs. Hopefully it'll be smooth and not heavily metallic.


----------



## BoomBap08

Carpet said:


> ZAX is much cheaper than the VX Pro. CCA CA16 would be worth looking at too, if you like warmer relaxed tunings. Don't get locked into the KZ/TRN ecosystem, there are a lot of other manufacturers that offer better options under $100. Moondrop Aria, Tin T3+, GS Audio GD3C, Tipsy TTROMSO, Tripowin Olina and ECCI YST-02 are all good. They tend to provide better accessories too!


Thanks for responding & the recommendations, sir. I already have other specialist sets. I'm just planning for my v-shape set to round up my beater collection.

I could actually get the ZAX for $39 & the VX Pro for just $44. That said, exclusively between the ZAX & VX Pro, which one has better instrument separation & imaging?


----------



## Carpet

BoomBap08 said:


> Thanks for responding & the recommendations, sir. I already have other specialist sets. I'm just planning for my v-shape set to round up my beater collection.
> 
> I could actually get the ZAX for $39 & the VX Pro for just $44. That said, exclusively between the ZAX & VX Pro, which one has better instrument separation & imaging?


I've heard neither, I went for the CCA CA16 over the ZAX since it's a warmer tuning. VX Pro was a later release, but for $44 for it's a steal!


----------



## BoomBap08

Carpet said:


> I've heard neither, I went for the CCA CA16 over the ZAX since it's a warmer tuning. VX Pro was a later release, but for $44 for it's a steal!


I guess that settles it then lol. At the very least, Delta already verified the VX Pro's drivers to all be working & functional. 😅


----------



## PhonoPhi

Ordered AS16 pro.
Only around $50.
Perhaps, not a breakthrough but for me this new KZ all-BA geared for classics is the one to definitely explore


----------



## lushmelody

r31ya said:


> They update the treble section with that black BAs. Hopefully it'll be smooth and not heavily metallic.


They are also marketing frequency tube separation and a logic board. Overall promising (compared to recent flagships)

Tuning ✓
"Expensive" internals ✓
Terrible lettering  ✓
Price ✓


----------



## r31ya (Jul 19, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> Ordered AS16 pro.
> Only around $50.
> Perhaps, not a breakthrough but for me this new KZ all-BA geared for classics is the one to definitely explore


early impression seems pretty decent (very clear apparently and despite the bass shelf its not that overwhelming)
but apparently the early batch is impedance sensitive. So some of the early receiver is currently hunting for impedance adaptor or double check their source (or play with volume)
---
per paul early testing shared on discord










Also the box noted that its 18 ohm


----------



## rayliam80

PhonoPhi said:


> Ordered AS16 pro.
> Only around $50.
> Perhaps, not a breakthrough but for me this new KZ all-BA geared for classics is the one to definitely explore



I'll be really stoked to hear your impressions since you've given a lot of love (tough love or not) to the AS10 and other previous KZ models over the years.


----------



## saldsald

r31ya said:


> early impression seems pretty decent (very clear apparently and despite the bass shelf its not that overwhelming)
> but apparently the early batch is impedance sensitive. So some of the early receiver is currently hunting for impedance adaptor or double check their source (or play with volume)
> ---
> per paul early testing shared on discord
> ...


The stated impedance is kind of meaningless especially for an all BA set. It is just the impedance of the bass BA when the IEM is not loaded.


----------



## r31ya (Jul 19, 2022)

saldsald said:


> The stated impedance is kind of meaningless especially for an all BA set. It is just the impedance of the bass BA when the IEM is not loaded.


casual like me kinda confused right now on whats what.
my understanding only reaching understanding raw power output.
but yeah, currently its the discussion topic


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> early impression seems pretty decent (very clear apparently and despite the bass shelf its not that overwhelming)
> but apparently the early batch is impedance sensitive. So some of the early receiver is currently hunting for impedance adaptor or double check their source (or play with volume)
> ---
> per paul early testing shared on discord
> ...



It is not a good look if folks have to put an impedance adapter with an IEM to modify the sound signature to something they prefer. It hints that the stock tuning isn't that great TBH.


----------



## r31ya

baskingshark said:


> It is not a good look if folks have to put an impedance adapter with an IEM to modify the sound signature to something they prefer. It hints that the stock tuning isn't that great TBH.


Right now, the kz rep claim it will sound the same as the graph on normal gear, while pointing out the detail on why it could get skewed during measurement.
apparently the target goal is QDC V14


----------



## r31ya

Oh, hey the first review of AS16Pro is out 
(without the impedance adapter)


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 20, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> It is not a good look if folks have to put an impedance adapter with an IEM to modify the sound signature to something they prefer. It hints that the stock tuning isn't that great TBH.


What I learned  about impedance adaptors - they are the best to attain optimum source currents, e.g. to make overly poweful and noisy at small currents amps to sound better when producing higher currents with more load.

Using impedance adaptors with less  powerful portable sources is largely counterproductive (OK for the sake of  exploration  and graphs posting, I guess...) since one will try to squeeze more currents from already a weak source, typically  resulting in choking the sound  (one of the good illustration of "meh").
Ideal sources produce the same sound with the impedance adaptors.
I have one that is close - E1DA SG3, when battery-powered using the splitter.

All-BAs are source-sensitive  that is the fact of life.
18 Ohm is a good value, at least better than 14-15 Ohm of earlier KZ all BAs.
Very good sensitivity, hopefully no dampers similar to original AS16.



rayliam80 said:


> I'll be really stoked to hear your impressions since you've given a lot of love (tough love or not) to the AS10 and other previous KZ models over the years.


Hopefully, in ~two weeks - it showed as shipped now.
Since the very first instance of listening to beloved AS10, I am hooked on BA bass, and KZ bass BAs are not any inferior to Knowles and Sonion; KZ treble BAs got closer recently; just the mids - did not hear the magic of Knowles 26989 either by drivers or by tuning.

I love original AS16, but it is very bass lean and treble enhanced to listen to  modern recordings. AS16 original seemingly have been designed to bring magic to older classical recordings with strongly tapered treble; it does!
So a bit more bass and clear mids can make AS16 pro a great set.

I will definitely compare AS16 pro with all KZ all-BAs and more


----------



## lushmelody

r31ya said:


> early impression seems pretty decent (very clear apparently and despite the bass shelf its not that overwhelming)
> but apparently the early batch is impedance sensitive. So some of the early receiver is currently hunting for impedance adaptor or double check their source (or play with volume)
> ---
> per paul early testing shared on discord
> ...


That lower mid bump is an EQ easy fix. No surprises if we need to adapt to squeeze better from a KZ. Still offering a full BA deal while most brands alienate us of acquiring such driver spec at sub $100


----------



## Podster

OK all my KZ fans, what KZ model is here with this X11 DAP and no these are not ED4's  Lightweight aluminum ones


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> OK all my KZ fans, what KZ model is here with this X11 DAP and no these are not ED4's  Lightweight aluminum ones


HDS1?


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> HDS1?


Good job Nim, knew it would be you or one of the old schoolers who nailed it, I think early on (first few pages of this thread) B9 reviewed them and basically said what's not to like about an $8 iem! Shells were twice the size of the ASG Rockets but lighter in weight, gifted mine away but remember them well


----------



## r31ya

Another Review of AS16Pro


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

The seller "KZ Earphones Franchised Store" is offering $13 off the AS16 Pro.


----------



## Nimweth (Jul 22, 2022)

Podster said:


> Good job Nim, knew it would be you or one of the old schoolers who nailed it, I think early on (first few pages of this thread) B9 reviewed them and basically said what's not to like about an $8 iem! Shells were twice the size of the ASG Rockets but lighter in weight, gifted mine away but remember them well


I had a blue set. I found them very well balanced. I also had a set of the ED3 Youth Version and the ED3 Perfection. All these were very good for the price. They have all been donated to charity!


----------



## r31ya

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> The seller "KZ Earphones Franchised Store" is offering $13 off the AS16 Pro.


the cheapest i saw is at $40 on kz official store on ali
not sure on other store


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> the cheapest i saw is at $40 on kz official store on ali
> not sure on other store


Was slightly tempted, but would rather save for an audiosense BA set in November.


----------



## nihil23

r31ya said:


> Another Review of AS16Pro



Nozzle seems like on previous iterations as12/16, so it's long and wide, there is can be fit issues


----------



## r31ya (Jul 22, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Was slightly tempted, but would rather save for an audiosense BA set in November.


i currently waiting for Truthear Zero,
One of my favorite early iem is a dual DD, iLuv s'More
I kinda want to rehear that setup with this "Chu + bass focused DD" tuning.
hopefully, its buyable in my place


----------



## Podster

r31ya said:


> the cheapest i saw is at $40 on kz official store on ali
> not sure on other store


Price for admission seems fair  I'm thinking with the right power (Uh file also) they can sound excellent If they sound as good as my BA10's its a no-brainer My most prized KZ these days however I still tinker with a few


----------



## r31ya

another KZ AS16 Pro review,


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Price for admission seems fair  I'm thinking with the right power (Uh file also) they can sound excellent If they sound as good as my BA10's its a no-brainer My most prized KZ these days however I still tinker with a few


Still my favourite KZ!


----------



## independent (Jul 24, 2022)

A cursory glance at this it sounds like KZ and others are recommending using impedence adapters much like they do in the microphone world..

All because of the miniscule impedence of all BA IEMs..

*At your own risk*
Tried this tonight. I knew there is a quality opamp at the Line output stage of my DAC the D10. I've been using a Gershelli Headphone amp with the Topping D10 and sick of the wires and everything. Guess I'm not a _amp stack_ guy . And what's more I have the Gershelli amp on it's lowest output on my ASF at minimum on the dillio. So, I cut out the middleman and connected to the D10 Line Out directly to my ASF. Just amazing. Listening comfortably at 28% volume. Gorgeous details, everything is there--a very present immediate sound.


----------



## Nimweth

Superb. Hidizs AP80 Pro X > Fedai 2.5mm balanced cable > BA10. The best BA bass I have heard as well!


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Superb. Hidizs AP80 Pro X > Fedai 2.5mm balanced cable > BA10. The best BA bass I have heard as well!


Have you compared with AS12?
AS12 still offer the best BA bass (judged on its own) to my ears with those two older Knowles-like bass BAs (as retained in AS16 pro).
BA10 are definitely the most balanced, still seem to be the most balanced KZ all-BA set.



independent said:


> A cursory glance at this it sounds like KZ and others are recommending using impedence adapters much like they do in the microphone world..
> 
> All because of the miniscule impedence of all BA IEMs..
> 
> ...



Very interesting!
So using 100 Ohm output impedance produce pleasing results. From the measurements posted, the mids, especially upper mids at around 1 kHz are more subdued with adaptors for the more fun V shape (?)
KZ still needs to work put "their mids", in my opinion.

I have a caboodle of impedance adapters. I did not find them improving the sound before for me, but possibly I have not used the right sources.

Then a good option to consider as an extreme of impedance adaptors is a simple volume control box, which typically uses a 1 kOhm variable resistor, so you can vary resistance and attenuate the fun factor


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> Have you compared with AS12?
> AS12 still offer the best BA bass (judged on its own) to my ears with those two older Knowles-like bass BAs (as retained in AS16 pro).
> BA10 are definitely the most balanced, still seem to be the most balanced KZ all-BA set.
> 
> ...


I will try the AS12 next. I really like the BA10's mids and treble too. Mids are not very recessed and treble is smooth with no "BA timbre". I suspect the inner structure of the BA10 is responsible and also the fact that there are no BAs in the nozzle. Also the use of an intermediate BA,  the 31005, which makes the original Dee Tee six sound good and also shines in the ZS7.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> I will try the AS12 next. I really like the BA10's mids and treble too. Mids are not very recessed and treble is smooth with no "BA timbre". I suspect the inner structure of the BA10 is responsible and also the fact that there are no BAs in the nozzle. Also the use of an intermediate BA,  the 31005, which makes the original Dee Tee six sound good and also shines in the ZS7.


Those unique 31005 are also in AS10.
I have not experimented much with BA10, but AS10 are one of the most impedance-dependent IEMs that I experienced, and in somewhat different way than most others all BAs. Perhaps, due to 31005 being low-impedance similar to 29689 that could be one reason that they have not been used further. 29689 BAs seem to be the central part of the impedance dependence of multi-BA IEMs.

I do find older all BAs, such as AS06, AS10 and BA10 a bit grainy in mids and treble, but I like this sound. New generations of BAs are smoother since they are more dampened.
The only difference in drivers in new AS16 pro compared to AS16 original are updated 31736, and then KZ seems to get more bass out of two bass BAs, hopefully similar to AS12.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Podster said:


> Price for admission seems fair  I'm thinking with the right power (Uh file also) they can sound excellent If they sound as good as my BA10's its a no-brainer My most prized KZ these days however I still tinker with a few



I also have exact same sentiments. BA10 is absolutely a gem of an IEM and by far my favourite IEM made by them. It's a perfect allrounder that's truly masterful with so many genres of music. If AS16 is anywhere close to the BA10 I'm pouncing on them at the first available opportunity!


----------



## Nimweth

I have tried the AS12 with the AP80 Pro X and it is brighter and "faster" in character. The bass is excellent, typical BA bass and it goes deep, but is different from the warmer more DD style bass in the BA10. The BA10 is better balanced whereas the AS 12 is cooler and appears to have more detail due to the brighter treble. I like them both but would still choose the BA10 as my favourite KZ!


----------



## independent (Jul 24, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> Very interesting!
> So using 100 Ohm output impedance produce pleasing results. From the measurements posted, the mids, especially upper mids at around 1 kHz are more subdued with adaptors for the more fun V shape (?)
> KZ still needs to work put "their mids", in my opinion.
> 
> ...


Sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to the impedence adapter that reviewers and KZ are recommending with the new AS16 Pro (If I've got this correct).

It just gave me the idea to try the ASF (all BA) IEM straight off the line outputs on my DAC. And reminded me of how low the impedence is of all BA IEMs. The DAC the topping D10, has well researched output stage. Also, I can barely use my IEMs with my headphone amp. That's how the idea came about. So I tried the ASF straight from the line outs and it works.


----------



## PhonoPhi

independent said:


> Sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to the impedence adapter that reviewers and KZ are recommending with the new AS16 Pro (If I've got this correct).
> 
> It just gave me the idea to try the ASF (all BA) IEM straight off the line outputs on my DAC. And reminded me of how low the impedence is of all BA IEMs. The DAC the topping D10, has well researched output stage. Also, I can barely use my IEMs with my headphone amp. That's how the idea came about. So I tried the ASF straight from the line outs and it works.


I hope I understood you correctly (?)
I looked at the D10 output impedance, I found two values: 100 Ohm and 88 Ohm.
So it is great to know that ASF can work out well with such high output impedance of the source vs. more common preference for low-impedance sources.

I ordered a switch box with the volume control, and am looking forward now to get AS16 pro and do few tests and comparisons with all-BA IEMs


----------



## independent

PhonoPhi said:


> I hope I understood you correctly (?)
> I looked at the D10 output impedance, I found two values: 100 Ohm and 88 Ohm.
> So it is great to know that ASF can work out well with such high output impedance of the source vs. more common preference for low-impedance sources.
> 
> I ordered a switch box with the volume control, and am looking forward now to get AS16 pro and do few tests and comparisons with all-BA IEMs


I just use it connected to my computer straight and control the volume from there. Nothing in between so you can try it out without buying a passive volume controller. Comfortable levels for me are in the 20% region. 

I'm a bit confused with the technicalities for the impedence. I only check this thread out once and a while. I saw the posts on the the AS16 PRO and impedence matching to headphone amplifiers which I think some people are recommending. This is because all BA IEMs are very low impedence and extremely easy to drive. I remembered there are three opamps in the output stage of my D10 DAC and thought they must be able to handle a really easy to drive IEM. Turns out it works. The sound is something else as well (might be wrong or turn out to be a bad idea, I'm sure someone will measure the FR directly connected to the Line Outs), but I am really enjoying it even if it is.


----------



## PhonoPhi

independent said:


> I just use it connected to my computer straight and control the volume from there. Nothing in between so you can try it out without buying a passive volume controller. Comfortable levels for me are in the 20% region.
> 
> I'm a bit confused with the technicalities for the impedence. I only check this thread out once and a while. I saw the posts on the the AS16 PRO and impedence matching to headphone amplifiers which I think some people are recommending. This is because all BA IEMs are very low impedence and extremely easy to drive. I remembered there are three opamps in the output stage of my D10 DAC and thought they must be able to handle a really easy to drive IEM. Turns out it works. The sound is something else as well (might be wrong or turn out to be a bad idea, I'm sure someone will measure the FR directly connected to the Line Outs), but I am really enjoying it even if it is.


All-BA IEMs typically have low impedance for it is an easier way to design them.
It is considered to be a common wisdom that the low source impedance is the simplest way to minimize the frequency response changes of all-BA IEMs introducing deviations from "what was intended".

Beyond this mute point, the "Impedance matching" of an IEM with a source can subjective - what really works the best for personal preferences, as long as the source is able to physically provide necessary voltage and current, which was evidently the case for your setup of D10 and ASF.
It is logical to expect ASF to sound different, and great that you like the difference. 
Your experience may open new vistas for other to explore their multi-driver IEMs.


----------



## independent

PhonoPhi said:


> All-BA IEMs typically have low impedance for it is an easier way to design them.
> It is considered to be a common wisdom that the low source impedance is the simplest way to minimize the frequency response changes of all-BA IEMs introducing deviations from "what was intended".
> 
> Beyond this mute point, the "Impedance matching" of an IEM with a source can subjective - what really works the best for personal preferences, as long as the source is able to physically provide necessary voltage and current, which was evidently the case for your setup of D10 and ASF.
> ...


It is a different sound. The detail is hard to describe. Nothing wierd is happening with the treble (treble sensitive here) that much I know. The bass is there in spades. 

You know I was just about to start on a new journey with headphones. I'd found a set I thought I would like. Being a basshead I'd spied the SRH1540 for sale second hand. Been really wanting to try planars but knowing that unless you spend huge amounts of money for Audeze that bass is hard to come by without equalising. 

However, with this seemingly theoretical journey. Reading countless reviews. Checking I'll fit the headband of the SRH1540. Checking that the treble isn't shrill. Making sure the bass is good. Honestly, I can't reasonably say I can afford these headphones at the moment and am I sure I'll get something that will give more satisfaction that what I've already got?

In the end, sometimes it comes down to simple things. I thought, if I'm finding new and greater detail with the IEMs I own, that is, throughout the spectrum and with different but affordable DACs. Able to hear differences in details from DAC to DAC with my ASF then these IEMs must be fairly good at revealing those details. So, I will stay on this journey now. Honestly the sound is really something else straight from the D10.


----------



## nraymond

PhonoPhi said:


> All-BA IEMs typically have low impedance for it is an easier way to design them.
> It is considered to be a common wisdom that the low source impedance is the simplest way to minimize the frequency response changes of all-BA IEMs introducing deviations from "what was intended".
> 
> Beyond this mute point, the "Impedance matching" of an IEM with a source can subjective - what really works the best for personal preferences, as long as the source is able to physically provide necessary voltage and current, which was evidently the case for your setup of D10 and ASF.
> ...


I'd recommend reading this good article on headphone impedance:

https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/


----------



## independent (Jul 24, 2022)

Read the article. Looking down the page at the higher distortion characteristics of low impedence headphones (mismatched impedances) by NwAvGuy. As an aside I remember doing his mod, a UCA202 with opamp upgrades and resistor changes from ages ago with BB basic DACs.. Anyway, thinking?  have I just outed myself as a *lover* of harmonic distortion 🤣


----------



## lgcubana

Has the whole disconnected or nominal output driver controversy been resolved ?

I‘m not really bothered 😕 that some of my multi-driver KZs may not be firing on all cylinders, as I still appreciate them for what they (Zax,  BA10, …) are.  But I’ve never spent more than $60 for a pair KZs.  And I would still entertain a multi-driver unit in the same price range.  But once the pricing starts tickling north of $75, it would make me start to wonder about the driver configuration.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

rambomhtri said:


> I love KZ, but they are becoming a meme brand, with their stupid philosophy "let's release one new IEM every week". I can't really believe I am the very first person that discovers KZ Z3 are fake SHAIT. Why would someone buy $50 TWS and NOT CHECK if it's aptX HD?
> 
> I just noticed the bad quality of the codec as soon as I started playing music, from The Police to be precise. The drums sounded like those 128kbps mp3, cola can like. I have these no brand $15 TWS IEM with AAC and they sound better, and I precisely spent my holy $50 to improve those and specifically have aptX HD. And then if you use the KZ BT5.0 cable, which works with aptX HD, the sound is 99.99% like the wired IEM. I don't really think I can tell the difference.
> 
> I already contacted KZ and they are asking me... FOR A VIDEO TO SHOW evidence. The pictures (screenshots) are not enough, apparently. I might have used Photoshop, right?


Old bump here but my z3s are the worst sounding items I’ve ever used.  Not sure if they have an issue or just sound awful.  All sub bass and no mids…I don’t mean v, I mean almost none.  Sounds disgusting.  Shame because connectivity build and battery life is great.


----------



## nraymond

lgcubana said:


> Has the whole disconnected or nominal output driver controversy been resolved ?
> 
> I‘m not really bothered 😕 that some of my multi-driver KZs may not be firing on all cylinders, as I still appreciate them for what they (Zax,  BA10, …) are.  But I’ve never spent more than $60 for a pair KZs.  And I would still entertain a multi-driver unit in the same price range.  But once the pricing starts tickling north of $75, it would make me start to wonder about the driver configuration.


Yes, but not with very public clarity. Basically, there was a glue issue with at least the DQ6s. There wasn't really an issue with the KZ multi-BAs, they seem to be tuned as well as anything else out there, Delta Fyre (and Crinacle for that matter) didn't really have a technical understanding of how multi-BAs are used in an IEM at the start of all this. It was talked about here though:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/permalink/2839232659710678/



> TRN BAX- When i spill my glass of water, why does my ceiling get wet?
> Doing the same exact thing i did to KZ CRN, disconnecting the positive wire going to the EST (Sonion EST65DA01 Dual- Tweeter) and measuring the frequency response after shows... no changes? not even a SLIGHT drop to those treble peaks around 10k??
> Doing the same process to the BA, (Knowles 29689 Unit) disconnecting the BA results in an INCREASE to the frequencies 2K and beyond..
> The first thing i did with these troubling results was share it with our friend at DUNU, and asked why the Sonion unit has seemingly negative SPL. They use the same exact Sonion unit in their EST112, and explained that these EST units are simply very low-output drivers in basically EVERY implementation. The sound output of the Sonion EST is about 90dB with proper measurements. The DD in the BAX has an output of 118dB, which is over 100x LOUDER than the EST. These EST drivers are for simply altering timbre. It's for giving an iem that extremely subtle crispiness. And if you've ever listened, you would get the impression that it's working.
> ...


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Question: is the BA10 worth tracking down? How does it compare to the AS06?


----------



## Nimweth

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Question: is the BA10 worth tracking down? How does it compare to the AS06?


It definitely is. I have not heard the AS06 but I prefer the BA10 to the AST and AS12. It is my favourite KZ. Here is a link:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32945...a2g0n.ppclist.product.0&gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite


----------



## PhonoPhi

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Question: is the BA10 worth tracking down? How does it compare to the AS06?


AS06 are a great minimalistic IEM, that is V- shaped due to less prominent mids.
BA10 will be fuller, more balanced, the bass may feel less relative to AS06.
The fit of BA10 was always a bit of a problem for me, not so much due to size, but relatively sharp ridges of a beautifully made shell. Now, I found Dioko with their nice shell closely problematic for the fit...

AS10 have the same drivers as BA10 but warmer tuning, so it can be another alternative to consider with the same shell as AS06.


----------



## independent

Banging on about this probably a bit much here. Sorry, if it's polluting the thread, let me know if this is a problem and I'll stop posting about this.

After trying out my ASF directly on my D10 line outs I cant stop listening to it. I've been reading about impedance and outputs of headphone amps and multi BA IEMs. The commonly perceived wisdom suggests impedance matching headphones and sources is to have a low output impedance source and low impedance multi BA IEM.And reading about it, it makes sense. From what I understand this is because of the low impedance can cause strange frequency interactions from the different impedance of the different drivers. That is, an unpredictable sound from a headphone if the amp has high impedance and the headphone is low.

However, I found one graph which shows the AST compared with different impedance sources. From 0 to 300 ohm amplifiers. As we know (on this thread) the AST is a 12BA per side IEM. And as an example here the frequency does not appear to do weird things with high impedance inputs. I just thought it interesting and perhaps, although a sample of one, worth experimenting with anyway.

The graph confirms what I'm hearing from a naturally dark IEM like the ASF. On the D10 seems to open it up a bit in the mids and treble, 'sparkly' without being shrill or edgy.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

made a small modification that turned the sound of  AS12.
So the first thing: +/- in the crossover are initially turned upside down, which is very strange...

The first thing I did was remove the brightness and sibilants in the middle - added 2.2uF in parallel for each mid armature + added 10 ohms.
For high frequencies (which are also given by sibilants), I simply added 47 ohms and that's it.

The headphones sounded much better: the bass is deeper and more percussive, the middle no longer screams, but at the same time it is rich in sounds and density, and the high frequencies are not so sharp.


----------



## Nimweth

Has anyone got the AS16 Pro and is able to compare it to the BA10?


----------



## Keputs

I know I'm late in this particular game about the AZ09 Pro but it must be said after holding out for a couple of years: this TWS works and I'm perfectly satisfied!

Paired with my ZAX (and ZSX) it gives me a very pleasant listening experience. It checks all the boxes and though it is not APTX HD (or Adaptive) and just classic APTX, the sound knocks me off my feet nevertheless. And contrary to some comments, the case is not humongous (my regular case is even bigger). It's just not pocket sized and that's alright.

Thanks to all the reviews and comments I've read on Head-Fi for convincing me to pull the trigger. Now I'm just waiting for the multi BA iem that gets a generally positive recommendation before I take the plunge again.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Keputs said:


> I know I'm late in this particular game about the AZ09 Pro but it must be said after holding out for a couple of years: this TWS works and I'm perfectly satisfied!
> 
> Paired with my ZAX (and ZSX) it gives me a very pleasant listening experience. It checks all the boxes and though it is not APTX HD (or Adaptive) and just classic APTX, the sound knocks me off my feet nevertheless. And contrary to some comments, the case is not humongous (my regular case is even bigger). It's just not pocket sized and that's alright.
> 
> Thanks to all the reviews and comments I've read on Head-Fi for convincing me to pull the trigger. Now I'm just waiting for the multi BA iem that gets a generally positive recommendation before I take the plunge again.


Hopefully., AS16 pro can fulfill the aspirations for ZSX & ZAX- llike IEM with the BA bass.


----------



## CHiBLaST

My last KZ was ZS6. I ordered the KZ ESX based on reviews. I will compare them to HD58x when it will arrive.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 30, 2022)

Got my AS16 pro tonight - just in 9 days!


Some good AS10 vibes


----------



## Nimweth

PhonoPhi said:


> Got my AS16 pro tonight - just in 9 days!
> Some good AS10 vibes


Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## bhazard (Aug 4, 2022)

Keputs said:


> I know I'm late in this particular game about the AZ09 Pro but it must be said after holding out for a couple of years: this TWS works and I'm perfectly satisfied!
> 
> Paired with my ZAX (and ZSX) it gives me a very pleasant listening experience. It checks all the boxes and though it is not APTX HD (or Adaptive) and just classic APTX, the sound knocks me off my feet nevertheless. And contrary to some comments, the case is not humongous (my regular case is even bigger). It's just not pocket sized and that's alright.
> 
> Thanks to all the reviews and comments I've read on Head-Fi for convincing me to pull the trigger. Now I'm just waiting for the multi BA iem that gets a generally positive recommendation before I take the plunge again.


It actually is aptX Adaptive. I've confirmed it with multiple aptX adaptive usb adapters. The chipset in the AZ09 Pro supports it. The key is in the source adapter used.

I'm running 24 bit 96kHz with the AZ09 Pro via this adapter:
T10p 24bit
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804206235637.html

The lighting modes on the devices confirm aptX adaptive in use (click the button 3 times to switch to aptX Adaptive), and there is a massive sound quality difference when you manually switch from aptx adaptive to aptx. You can also test using "exclusive mode" in Windows. The Windows mixer is bypassed and 24bit 96kHz plays successfully through the adapters on aptX adaptive mode and the AZ09 Pro.

So yes, the AZ09 pro is even better than KZ's own description. I think very few people truly know about this.


----------



## Rocket222

bhazard said:


> It actually is aptX Adaptive. I've confirmed it with multiple aptX adaptive usb adapters. The chipset in the AZ09 Pro supports it. The key is in the source adapter used.
> 
> I'm running 24 bit 96kHz with the AZ09 Pro via these two adapters:
> T10p 24bit
> ...



This is yet another KZ trick, bait and switch.  The early batch of AZ09 pro has the aptX Adaptive.  So when the words are out, they disable aptX Adaptive on those in the later batches.  People like me read about the aptX Adaptive on AZ09 pro are disappointed when we realized it only supports classic aptX.  However, I have to say this is still a pretty good BT adapter.  My other complaints are the bright LED and the flimsy control buttons.


----------



## PhonoPhi

My initial impressions on AS16 pro are *very positive *(and, hopefully, a bit more objective than my positive bias for KZ and penchant for all-BA IEMs; I learned a lot from Dioko recently, its extreme U of sub-bass and last-octave emphasis).

I used Tempotec E44 (my preferred transparent/brightish DAC) and wide-bore tips for AS16 pro and all other IEMs in comparisons. I have started with Chesky disks for comparison, then diverged and divulged into more music with the engaging AS16 pro  (and in lieu of disclosure, my two AS16 pro (the first ordered is well behind in the mail...) are ordered with my own funds, no personal discounts, etc) 

To start, AS16 pro share a lot with AS16 - the same size and shape of the shell to the best of my visual comparison, just  a different top plate. Most of the drivers are the same other than new 31736 for treble. The bass (most importantly) and mid BAs are the older type (silver not black).

Compared to original AS16, the treble is definitely smoother and less emphasized. Comparatively, the bass and at least low mids are given a more prominent role for much more balanced tuning that retained clarity.

At the same time, on one hand, the midbass is quite emphasized (I like it) but it is the BA bass of the Knowles type, quite measured and laconic (I like it as well).

As a result, most significatly, the mids are more there, supported by the bass and not distracted by the treble. I was really surprised and happy that AS16 pro can be compared to Hisenior U4/T4 (before, KZs were different). Compared to U4, AS16 pro are more into midbass with less pristine clarity, but AS6 pro can do vocals.
I am not much into vocals other than some choral music. That is what I used for comparison: beatuful Estonian recording of Veljo Tormis




All-in-all, AS16 pro are still *created/crafted for classical and acoustic music*, significantly due to its still leaner BA bass.

I tried Rammstein, it is much more fuller and engaging with new rampant (Sonion-like) bass BAs of ASX (wide-nozzle modified) and AST than AS16 pro.

So coming from AST, the bass  of AS16 pro would be drier, but treble is more freed for less tinkering to free it up from the original tuning. There is a beutiful smoothness of some AST upper mids; with AS16 pro, it is just more clarity. I would consider AST and AS16 pro to be on the same level.

Compared to BA10 (and AS10), new BAs, especially the mid-treble ones, are noticeably smoother: no graininess and steeliness of older BAs (I like the graininess and some steeliness as a favour); the bass is more emphasized, especially middbass, but it is the same leaner bass - the same drivers. The treble of BA10 is more extended in the range but with more tapering. The treble of AS16 pro does not do much in the last octave (8-16 kHz) but the remaining treble is more accentuated compared to BA10, not to the extremes of the original AS16, but still. 
So moving from BA10 to AS16 pro - smoother more refined drivers, a bit more V, but not old-KZ "V" of ZS10 pro, for instance, but of more balanced with the mids not far behind, and geared for acoustic music. This last sentence should serve as a good summary to conclude these writings. 

I will be happy to do more comparison, and if the time permits may attempt a more comprehensive review.


----------



## r31ya

CHiBLaST said:


> My last KZ was ZS6. I ordered the KZ ESX based on reviews. I will compare them to HD58x when it will arrive.


a little PSA, KZ eartips is not that good.
for ESX, if the bass a bit obnoxious, you will get better experience with it if you use widebore eartips like KBEar07/AET07.


PhonoPhi said:


> My initial impressions on AS16 pro are *very positive *(and, hopefully, a bit more objective than my positive bias for KZ and penchant for all-BA IEMs; I learned a lot from Dioko recently, its extreme U of sub-bass and last-octave emphasis).
> 
> I used Tempotec E44 (my preferred transparent/brightish DAC) and wide-bore tips for AS16 pro and all other IEMs in comparisons. I have started with Chesky disks for comparison, then diverged and divulged into more music with the engaging AS16 pro  (and in lieu of disclosure, my two AS16 pro (the first ordered is well behind in the mail...) are ordered with my own funds, no personal discounts, etc)
> 
> ...


Apparently it will sound a bit better with Impedance adapter (18~-30 ohm), or using high power source like TK-2?
And it seems the target IEM for AS16Pro is QDC V14, i wonder if someone here have heard it and can compare


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 31, 2022)

r31ya said:


> a little PSA, KZ eartips is not that good.
> for ESX, if the bass a bit obnoxious, you will get better experience with it if you use widebore eartips like KBEar07/AET07.
> 
> Apparently it will sound a bit better with Impedance adapter (18~-30 ohm), or using high power source like TK-2?
> And it seems the target IEM for AS16Pro is QDC V14, i wonder if someone here have heard it and can compare


I have literally "undusted" my impedance adapters of 20 and 75 Ohm. I also have a resistor box to get any arbitrary values.

Quite a bit of a limitation is that all impedance adapters, that I am aware of, are unbalanced, and the circuit with two resistor box is rich. Perhaps, another audiophile direction, more meaningful than cables at least 

Anyhow, sorry for the digression, testing unbalanced with my Tempotec E44 and the recording cited  above: it surely sounds different - the bass is more suppressed and mids are more emphasized with 20 Ohm for more leanness and clarity. At 75 Ohm, high-mids feel even more prominent, 75 Ohm may be too much.
I prefer the original tuning, the lean BA bass lovely tuned warmer, I am not giving it back. I have Dioko for the lean signature with its undertuned midbass (I am not adding midbass there either).

Then, in my opinion, all all-BA IEMs sound differently with different source impedances, and all are very amenable to digital signal processing, including equalizers.
So equalizers are arguably a much simpler and more flexible and instructive way to enjoy different tunings other than the stock signature.

P. S. It is possible to speculate that KZ used 18 Ohm source impedance to produce the graph more likeable by "graph aficionados" and then the warmer tuning for the most of the listeners - actually, a smart strategy and a good crossover design (AS10 are surely different, for instance).


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> Anyhow, sorry for the digression, testing unbalanced with my Tempotec E44 and the recording cited above: it surely sounds different - the bass is more suppressed and mids are more emphasized with 20 Ohm for more leanness and clarity. At 75 Ohm, high-mids feel even more prominent, 75 Ohm may be too much.
> I prefer the original tuning, the lean BA bass lovely tuned warmer, I am not giving it back. I have Dioko for the lean signature with its undertuned midbass (I am not adding midbass there either).







They actually tuned it with 18ohm in mind. Which is why they weren't happy with reviewers graphs at 0-2 ohm.


----------



## PhonoPhi

That would be quite strange.
How many sources are out there with 18 Ohm? Older ones were 100 and 50 Ohm, and newer ones are few Ohms. My 20 Ohm adapter was quite a rarity to find few years ago.

So I am still with my simpler conspiracy theory that I added as a postscriptum above before your post


----------



## RikudouGoku

PhonoPhi said:


> How many sources are out there with 18 Ohm?


Exactly, It is honestly quite the bad move to tune it with that in mind...


----------



## r31ya

RikudouGoku said:


> Exactly, It is honestly quite the bad move to tune it with that in mind...


from the dicussion in the discord, i think it was default setting on their tuning gear and didn't realize it will sound different in normal gear.


----------



## PhonoPhi

RikudouGoku said:


> Exactly, It is honestly quite the bad move to tune it with that in mind...


I like the end results a lot, and their process was always a bit of a "black box" or "trial & error".
I would be curios to know if they or someone else give the parameters of the crossover to predict the power distribution at different source impedance.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

r31ya said:


> a little PSA, KZ eartips is not that good.


If you use the screw method and flip them inside out they work MUCH better.  Comfort wise and seal wise.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Jul 31, 2022)

So few points and thoughts about AS16 pro and impedance adapters.

1. My "20 Ohm" adapter (labelled on the package)  actually measures 30-31 Ohm. The 75 Ohm  (Dunu) is 75 Ohm. The most standard values ard 75, 150 and 300 Ohm. 30 Ohm can be found, as my mislabeled 20 Ohm.
I actually tried to order JCally 8 and 16 Ohm some time before - the order was not shipped and refunded by the seller.
So getting 10-20 Ohm adapters is hard. It can be perhaps a new line of audiophile business.

2. I spent more time with the 30-Ohm adapter, the difference is definitely there, pethaps not overly prominent, especially compared to 75 Ohm that is to much for upper mids (petfect level matching is another problem there for reliable comparison).
I perceive the difference as less bass and more upper mids with the impedance adapter, closer to original AS16 and the bass in BA10. Both sound signatures are nice, the warmer one without the adapter is more likeable to me.

3. Perhaps, it is a fortunate coincidence that KZ used 18 Ohm, so most would  experience a warmer signature, so the reviewers would complain less about dry bass and emphasized treble as for AS16.

4. Perhaps, surprisingly low prices  (to me, I would pay $70-80) is in part due to this impedance. Well, better for the consumers, and then I never experienced perfect KZ, just great ones 

5. At the same time, it is hard to image engineers and/or tuners so unaware of common sources - testing with real devices is an expected routine.

6. Well, KZ is KZ, I was happily surprised that they communicate with reviewers - a good step forward, perhaps 
Whatever their process, I have high respect for their results.

7. Equalizers should be perfectly able to mimic resistive loads, so anyone can experiment with these signatures without the hardware.

8. Finally, I will take some break from HeadFi enjoying the music with AS16 pro and my  other IEMs, rather than trying to figure out adapters and their effrct on sound signatures


----------



## r31ya

PhonoPhi said:


> So few points and thoughts about AS16 pro and impedance adapters.
> 
> 1. My "20 Ohm" adapter (labelled on the package)  actually measures 30-31 Ohm. The 75 Ohm  (Dunu) is 75 Ohm. The most standard values ard 75, 150 and 300 Ohm. 30 Ohm can be found, as my mislabeled 20 Ohm.
> I actually tried to order JCally 8 and 16 Ohm some time before - the order was not shipped and refunded by the seller.
> ...


They communicate in the Discord, a bit defensive but its understandable.

But funnily, i think the tuners and the PR people is not in sync when he was asked about the as16 pro graph.
the PR people have defensive reaction upon being notified on the graph difference. noting possible difference in tools and method.
It was until someone they trust post their result, the PR decided to ask the engineers and only then the PR people points out the 18 ohm image at the as16pro packaging.

unnessesary short drama but yeah.
anyhow thank god KZ first foray to hybrid (post drama) turns out pretty good. kinda regretting not taking it when it was $40.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Rocket222 said:


> This is yet another KZ trick, bait and switch.  The early batch of AZ09 pro has the aptX Adaptive.  So when the words are out, they disable aptX Adaptive on those in the later batches.  People like me read about the aptX Adaptive on AZ09 pro are disappointed when we realized it only supports classic aptX.  However, I have to say this is still a pretty good BT adapter.  My other complaints are the bright LED and the flimsy control buttons.


Why on earth would they spend extra time in manufacturing to change something that works to make the product worse?

It's absurd.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> They communicate in the Discord, a bit defensive but its understandable.
> 
> But funnily, i think the tuners and the PR people is not in sync when he was asked about the as16 pro graph.
> the PR people have defensive reaction upon being notified on the graph difference. noting possible difference in tools and method.
> ...


AS16 pro isn't a hybrid, it's an all BA set. So it didn't raise the question of whether the DD was carrying the whole show, with BAs included as baggage to pump the price. I'm regarding money not spent on a new KZ, as part payment on an all BA set from AudioSense.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> AS16 pro isn't a hybrid, it's an all BA set. So it didn't raise the question of whether the DD was carrying the whole show, with BAs included as baggage to pump the price. I'm regarding money not spent on a new KZ, as part payment on an all BA set from AudioSense.


Ah, sorry multi drivers. 
Not sure why, but i always refer to those as hybrids


----------



## 1clearhead

PhonoPhi said:


> So few points and thoughts about AS16 pro and impedance adapters.
> 
> 1. My "20 Ohm" adapter (labelled on the package)  actually measures 30-31 Ohm. The 75 Ohm  (Dunu) is 75 Ohm. The most standard values ard 75, 150 and 300 Ohm. 30 Ohm can be found, as my mislabeled 20 Ohm.
> I actually tried to order JCally 8 and 16 Ohm some time before - the order was not shipped and refunded by the seller.
> ...


+1 I'm really enjoying the tuning of the AS16 PRO as well. Finally, BA done right by KZ!

-Clear


----------



## 1clearhead (Aug 1, 2022)

Nimweth said:


> Has anyone got the AS16 Pro and is able to compare it to the BA10?


I have both and I can say that the AS16 PRO plays in the same ballfield as the BA10, but they do have their different flavors. If you check out @PhonoPhi  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/knowledge-zenith-kz-impressions-thread.698148/post-17074362 ...I couldn't have said it better myself.

Personally, I still like the BA10 for its' unique approach at the time they were made for an all BA set, but the AS16 PRO just takes many of the songs I have to another level. In an eerie way, they remind me of my LZ A6 which at the time they came out cost more than 6 times the price of the AS16 PRO today. I'm not saying they sound exactly the same knowing that the A6 includes piezos, but they definitely come close. So, that puts the AS16 PRO as an all BA game changer for KZ, IMHO.

-Clear


----------



## nihil23 (Aug 2, 2022)

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Why on earth would they spend extra time in manufacturing to change something that works to make the product worse?
> 
> It's absurd.


You might not know, but often qualcomm sells the same soc with different licenses, maybe KZ just didn't pay for aptx adaptive support. Therefore, they were forced to disable it in new versions.


----------



## CHiBLaST

r31ya said:


> a little PSA, KZ eartips is not that good.
> for ESX, if the bass a bit obnoxious, you will get better experience with it if you use widebore eartips like KBEar07/AET07.
> 
> Apparently it will sound a bit better with Impedance adapter (18~-30 ohm), or using high power source like TK-2?
> And it seems the target IEM for AS16Pro is QDC V14, i wonder if someone here have heard it and can compare


I got the ESX and yeah these are really fun to listen. Bass is plenty and doesnt bleed to mids and treble, mids are not laid back/recessed as I thought. I was scared they were going to be like DT770 (32 ohm or was it 80 ohms?) but they are perfectly fine. Treble is almost on the edge. Hot enough but not ear drilling until you really increase volume. Details are present but they are a bit hard to pick, layering is better than I expected despite having this amount of bass. Imaging also better than I expected. But there is only one thing I dont get it and thats the soundstage. Where is the soundstage guys? Maybe because of the tips? Honestly I dont have a problem with tips, they are comfortable, doesnt slip and not hot at all. If I will switch to Kbear07 tips is soundstage gonna open? I had high hopes on soundstage based on reviews but Its definetly lacking. I had M40x and I guess these are like his brother, M50x.

Overall I m quite suprised how good these are even without a proper soundstage, If soundstage was there these would be a true killer in the price range. Good bass, nice mids, controlled treble, enough details for the price, very good imaging. 

Missed the engaging sound haha.


----------



## r31ya

with Kbear the bass got tamed a bit and it feels less congested.

apparently if you don't mind less bass quantity, the little sister, CCA Lyra is even better.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 1, 2022)

The KZ AS16 PRO arrived today. Super source dependent.......they sound great from the Shanling UA3, sound fantastic from the WM1A, but a little hot from the Walkman WM1Z. By far this is the best KZ tune I’ve come across?


----------



## Echalon

Rocket222 said:


> This is yet another KZ trick, bait and switch.  The early batch of AZ09 pro has the aptX Adaptive.  So when the words are out, they disable aptX Adaptive on those in the later batches.  People like me read about the aptX Adaptive on AZ09 pro are disappointed when we realized it only supports classic aptX.  However, I have to say this is still a pretty good BT adapter.  My other complaints are the bright LED and the flimsy control buttons.





CHiBLaST said:


> I got the ESX and yeah these are really fun to listen. Bass is plenty and doesnt bleed to mids and treble, mids are not laid back/recessed as I thought. I was scared they were going to be like DT770 (32 ohm or was it 80 ohms?) but they are perfectly fine. Treble is almost on the edge. Hot enough but not ear drilling until you really increase volume. Details are present but they are a bit hard to pick, layering is better than I expected despite having this amount of bass. Imaging also better than I expected. But there is only one thing I dont get it and thats the soundstage. Where is the soundstage guys? Maybe because of the tips? Honestly I dont have a problem with tips, they are comfortable, doesnt slip and not hot at all. If I will switch to Kbear07 tips is soundstage gonna open? I had high hopes on soundstage based on reviews but Its definetly lacking. I had M40x and I guess these are like his brother, M50x.
> 
> Overall I m quite suprised how good these are even without a proper soundstage, If soundstage was there these would be a true killer in the price range. Good bass, nice mids, controlled treble, enough details for the price, very good imaging.
> 
> Missed the engaging sound haha.


If you have a 30 Ohm impedance adaptor, give it a try with these. For me it really opened them up.


----------



## unifutomaki (Aug 1, 2022)

Received my ESX today. Tip-rolling is a must with these. With narrow-bore tips they sound boomy, muddy and closed-in. Swapped in my Azla SednaEarfits and the difference is immediately noticeable with more sparkle and air emerging in the mids and treble. Nevertheless, these are about as far as one can get from my Final A4000 in terms of detail retrieval and technicalities. I get the sense that these were tuned more for relaxing/chilling than any kind of critical listening.

On a positive note, the bass is pretty satisfying and fun! It could stand to be a tad faster, tighter and more refined, but there’s definitely ample weight and body to each note.





More listening notes:

Male vocals are definitely recessed. Listen to this track - his vocals should be front and center; when I hear him sing “ノーフィクション” at 0:45 it should send chills down my spine. But the ESX presents the piano in front of the vocals. Hm.
With that said, the piano _does _sound good. 
Guitars sound somewhat dampened and imprecise. Take this track as an example - the guitar should be rather prominent in the mix but during the chorus the background track dissolves into sound soup and it’s difficult to make out the individual instruments. 
The ESX does, however, put out one of the best renditions of this track I’ve heard. It’s all about dat bass (and well-resolved female vocals).
Finally: 




????…どこ?????? 🤔🤔🤔


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-as16-pro.25953/reviews#review-28967


----------



## r31ya

unifutomaki said:


> Received my ESX today. Tip-rolling is a must with these. With narrow-bore tips they sound boomy, muddy and closed-in. Swapped in my Azla SednaEarfits and the difference is immediately noticeable with more sparkle and air emerging in the mids and treble. Nevertheless, these are about as far as one can get from my Final A4000 in terms of detail retrieval and technicalities. I get the sense that these were tuned more for relaxing/chilling than any kind of critical listening.
> 
> On a positive note, the bass is pretty satisfying and fun! It could stand to be a tad faster, tighter and more refined, but there’s definitely ample weight and body to each note.
> 
> ...


With the right eartips there is a good airiness that give sense of good soundstage. 
But in terms of positioning in space wise is not THAT grand but its pretty decent


----------



## unifutomaki

r31ya said:


> With the right eartips there is a good airiness that give sense of good soundstage.
> But in terms of positioning in space wise is not THAT grand but its pretty decent


Maybe I'm spoiled by my A4000 but the ESX soundstage is average at best to my ears - like the vast majority of IEMs. Not terrible, but not wow airy 3D holographic or anything.


----------



## SartWaiting

unifutomaki said:


> but the ESX soundstage is average at best to my ears


I didn't find any noticeable differences in the soundstage ESX and CRA


----------



## evasb (Aug 2, 2022)

PS: He's right about the competition in the lower-end being increasingly more difficult and KZ should worry.


----------



## lushmelody

evasb said:


> PS: He's right about the competition in the lower-end being increasingly more difficult and KZ should worry.



Its a sad truth, indeed. But it would be good to note that KZ is the only one offering a fully new all BA set at this price range. They are not in the same category hardware wise. We only wish they could be more "plug and play", consumer friendly. Might indicates the difficulty of tuning so many BAs, Idk. For those who likes to mods and EQ customs, they continue offering great audiophile value.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 2, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> Its a sad truth, indeed. But it would be good to note that KZ is the only one offering a fully new all BA set at this price range. They are not in the same category hardware wise. We only wish they could be more "plug and play", consumer friendly. Might indicates the difficulty of tuning so many BAs, Idk. For those who likes to mods and EQ customs, they continue offering great audiophile value.


Technically, the impedance problem sounds valid - but it is just for  "curve matching".
Ironically, the sound with the low impedance is more midbass-rich and less lean, so it is hard not to find the ramble above quite disingenuous (sorry, it is hard to be "restrained" here).
The person doing it was banned here for ethical problems, so there is a good "segment" of people who would not touch his stuff just for ethics alone.

Returning to AS16 pro - it sounds great just with an Apple dongle. Listening to low-impedance sources first made me like this sound signature more than with 30 Ohm adapters.
Though I do wonder, would the reverse be true (?). I do like the original AS16 (as a specialist IEM to make many old classical recording alive), while to most people listening to electronic musc, AS16 are less of a good match, just look at most of AS16 reviews. The high-impedance tuning is close to original AS16, many could find it to lean - the BA sound is different from DD to compare the frequency graphs any meaningfully with the ones for DD.

P. S. Again, with all my affection for KZ, they never had some perfect IEM, just great ones where something is a bit off: BA10 - the size and ridges of the shell; AS16 - unabashedly narrowly focused tuning for good old classical recordings; ASX - those narrow nozzles striangulating the sound; AST - treble needs some work to come alive; AS16 pro - some strange impedance choice during tuning (likely just wrongly "dialed" impedance value of the IEM instead of the source; the other guess of maximum energy utilization upon matching the source and transducer impedances is just too technical).

For the end results, AS16 pro seem to be the best by far - your music does not know anything about impedances, frequency curves, and the crazy world of IEM reviews competing for free samples and the "followers".
At $55 - AS16 pro is just a gift to music listeners.


----------



## ChrisOc

Thank you for your assessment,  I am sold on them! Mine are on their way.


----------



## rayliam80

PhonoPhi said:


> Technically, the impedance problem sounds valid - but it is just for  "curve matching".
> Ironically, the sound with the low impedance is more midbass-rich and less lean, so it is hard not to find the ramble above quite disingenuous (sorry, it is hard to be "restrained" here).
> The person doing it was banned here for ethical problems, so there is a good "segment" of people who would not touch his stuff just for ethics alone.
> 
> ...



For the only all-BA KZs that I own, the ASF has grown less appealing even though I dialed it in with the right tips/fit. I just think it sounds very "average" - not great but not terrible either. And it's also fussy with some of my sources unlike other KZs. But the AS12 has grown on me but it's also a specialty IEM like the Heart Mirror, which I also recently picked up. The AS12 is perfect for string quartets and solos - however, I don't have a lot of these kinds of recordings in my library. The HM is more of an all-arounder for classical music if I use them with Azla Crystal tips which seems bring up the bass a bit more. 

The ASF only set me back like $24 at the time. And AS12 set me back like $22. 1 out of 2, for that price, isn't bad at all. 

I'm tempted to get the AS16 Pro but I don't really need another IEM right now....and a store on Ali has it for $40 right now


----------



## r31ya

rayliam80 said:


> For the only all-BA KZs that I own, the ASF has grown less appealing even though I dialed it in with the right tips/fit. I just think it sounds very "average" - not great but not terrible either. And it's also fussy with some of my sources unlike other KZs. But the AS12 has grown on me but it's also a specialty IEM like the Heart Mirror, which I also recently picked up. The AS12 is perfect for string quartets and solos - however, I don't have a lot of these kinds of recordings in my library. The HM is more of an all-arounder for classical music if I use them with Azla Crystal tips which seems bring up the bass a bit more.
> 
> The ASF only set me back like $24 at the time. And AS12 set me back like $22. 1 out of 2, for that price, isn't bad at all.
> 
> I'm tempted to get the AS16 Pro but I don't really need another IEM right now....and a store on Ali has it for $40 right now


i'd take it at $40...
but TruthEar Zero is tempting.
a cheapo Salnote Zero have pretty positive early reviews
or save a bit more to get Aria SE


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 3, 2022)

ChrisOc said:


> Thank you for your assessment,  I am sold on them! Mine are on their way.


If mine (your reply is not directed), I would take as much responsibility as I can - AS16 pro should work well for your preferences for world music and acoustic jazz, I hope.
Out of my favourite IEMs, given my biased tastes, AS16 pro would be a safer universal recommendation along with TRI I3 and BA10 (based on their sound, minus other factors).

If to take I3 planar mids and replace 29689 in AS16 pro, it would make one of the mighty IEM.

AS16 pro mids are the best of all-BA KZ (BA10 are close) and are the main point where it can be transformed to a better IEM, I think (?)

Then you have TK2 - one of the closest match for 18 Ohm impedance on balanced, so you can make the best comparison and share your impressions.

Finally, thank you for your kind and insightful words on another thread. I do need to take a break from HeadFi, to disengage a bit.


rayliam80 said:


> For the only all-BA KZs that I own, the ASF has grown less appealing even though I dialed it in with the right tips/fit. I just think it sounds very "average" - not great but not terrible either. And it's also fussy with some of my sources unlike other KZs. But the AS12 has grown on me but it's also a specialty IEM like the Heart Mirror, which I also recently picked up. The AS12 is perfect for string quartets and solos - however, I don't have a lot of these kinds of recordings in my library. The HM is more of an all-arounder for classical music if I use them with Azla Crystal tips which seems bring up the bass a bit more.
> 
> The ASF only set me back like $24 at the time. And AS12 set me back like $22. 1 out of 2, for that price, isn't bad at all.
> 
> I'm tempted to get the AS16 Pro but I don't really need another IEM right now....and a store on Ali has it for $40 right now


$40 is even better!
ASF are one of the blandest KZ all-BAs, perhaps less balanced mighty "new BA" bass, yet nothing really wrong with them, and I would still take them over the recent mighty KZ/CCA DDs.
AS12 and HM are a mighty and well-matched pair. If your music does not push lhe limits of the resolution of HM - then HM are definitely a sharply resolving DD closest to BAs. I love the fit.
No needs to upgrade.
I did not mention that AS16 pro are my "100-th" physical pair (counting duplicates and for parts/tests), but I can't grow even a second pair of ears. One more reason to take some break.


----------



## ChrisOc (Aug 3, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> If mine (your reply is not directed), I would take as much responsibility as I can - AS16 pro should work well for your preferences for world music and acoustic jazz, I hope.
> Out of my favourite IEMs, given my biased tastes, AS16 pro would be a safer universal recommendation along with TRI I3 and BA10 (based on their sound, minus other factors).
> 
> If to take I3 planar mids and replace 29689 in AS16 pro, it would make one of the mighty IEM.
> ...


My gratitude was directed at you, I highlighted the relevant part, and instead of quoting, I copied, given that would not refer to your post I did not paste, and the option to qoute was not available once posted.

My taste for classical music included, I am sure I will enjoy listening to them.

Sometimes we have to give credit where it is due and you definitely deserve more credit for your contributions, and everything aside, I find your posts well thought through and informative. They display your knowledge and intellect for all (who choose to) to see.

I often ask people I train, "have you wondered why when you discover a new word, you tend to see it everywhere?" The truth is, it is right in front of us but we turn a blind eye to a lot and our acquisition of knowledge depends on how much we open our minds. Many will see what your posts have to offer in time.

I think a short break is all your time away should be, no more, otherwise you will be missed.

Ok, that is enough praise for one day!

Be well!


----------



## Steve Dave

ChrisOc said:


> My gratitude was directed at you, I highlighted the relevant part, and instead of quoting, I copied, given that would not refer to your post I did not paste, and the option to qoute was not available once posted.
> 
> My taste for classical music included, I am sure I will enjoy listening to them.
> 
> ...


But 
If someone chooses to impart their knowledge with one hand while constantly slapping the recipient in the face with the other, eventually they will just be ignored regardless of how knowledgeable that someone is.


----------



## RingingEars

Got my ZEX pro CRN in Monday. 
I didn't discover the whole KZ debacle until Sunday and was going to send these back due to that, but I decided to give these a listen to and decided to hang on to them. I really like the fun, funky sound of these.


----------



## ChrisOc

Steve Dave said:


> But
> If someone chooses to impart their knowledge with one hand while constantly slapping the recipient in the face with the other, eventually they will just be ignored regardless of how knowledgeable that someone is.


I get it, and I along with others have been on the receiving end of it. However, as I stated in my previous post, I make the request that he needs to dial down his belligerence. 

I felt no need to repeat it here, because "a word to the wise is enough".

It is giving credit where it is due without taking the shine off it. Everything has its moment.


----------



## MacAttack7

RingingEars said:


> Got my ZEX pro CRN in Monday.
> I didn't discover the whole KZ debacle until Sunday and was going to send these back due to that, but I decided to give these a listen to and decided to hang on to them. I really like the fun, funky sound of these.


I'm using the ZEX Pro this morning. 
I'm always reluctant to use them due to all of the negative brainwashing, but then once I actually put them on and play some music, I think they sound pretty good.


----------



## RingingEars

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm using the ZEX Pro this morning.
> I'm always reluctant to use them due to all of the negative brainwashing, but then once I actually put them on and play some music, I think they sound pretty good.


That's the thing. They do sound good. I guess I'll just swallow my principles and go with it because now I'm eye-ballin the AS16 pro's


----------



## RingingEars

Redcarmoose said:


> The KZ AS16 PRO arrived today. Super source dependent.......they sound great from the Shanling UA3, sound fantastic from the WM1A, but a little hot from the Walkman WM1Z. By far this is the best KZ tune I’ve come across?


I really appreciated your review on these Redcarmoose. I think I'm putting these on my "next to buy" list.


----------



## bhazard

KZ and CCA do a good job with pre-order coupons. I had no interest in getting the AS16 Pro, but then they dropped a coupon into the $40 range early on. Impulse buy achieved.


----------



## Redcarmoose

bhazard said:


> KZ and CCA do a good job with pre-order coupons. I had no interest in getting the AS16 Pro, but then they dropped a coupon into the $40 range early on. Impulse buy achieved.


Win, win, win.....there is a preponderance on win in this thread!


----------



## XerusKun (Aug 3, 2022)

evasb said:


> PS: He's right about the competition in the lower-end being increasingly more difficult and KZ should worry.



If you look at this video carefully, he somehow teased a new IEM, basically that video is for glamorizing the recent collabs (he is not wrong about the high impedance source issue though, but his other points are just whack), AS16 Pro in the title cause it is somehow relevant plus some people in the community somehow really liked to witch hunt KZ. Also did he even listen to the IEM in the first place?

Also here's a proper AS16 Pro graph from Akros.





To be honest with AS16 Pro you somehow have two sound signature to please your ears. Midcentric (without impedance adapter) or U-shaped (with impedance adapter). I liked the later one the most, but I see some people in the community also liking the former one.


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## XerusKun (Aug 3, 2022)

All I can say is AS16 Pro makes me love listening to Live/Acoustic tracks, it's just so realistic and immersive to my ears its eargasmic really. I also listen to some pop and rock songs but I much prefer how DD handles those tracks.

I think this is it, the end goal of listening to this IEMs it makes you appreciate how the music is created (and I think KZ just did that with AS16 Pro even without the impedance adapter).


----------



## r31ya

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm using the ZEX Pro this morning.
> I'm always reluctant to use them due to all of the negative brainwashing, but then once I actually put them on and play some music, I think they sound pretty good.


Zex Pro is very good. it have one flaw in certain parts of treble but other wise good for the price.
Like crin said, it was tuned to a point that the only way to upgrade it is by changing the drivers. 
(basically both DD and BA have looong ass tooth that need to be replaced and later KZ did.)

Yes, the other driver is lowered in usage but its still there enough to make great layering effect on the music.
Small orchestra is really good for it.


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## RingingEars (Aug 3, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> All I can say is AS16 Pro makes me love listening to Live/Acoustic tracks, it's just so realistic and immersive to my ears its eargasmic really. I also listen to some pop and rock songs but I much prefer how DD handles those tracks.
> 
> I think this is it, the end goal of listening to this IEMs it makes you appreciate how the music is created (and I think KZ just did that with AS16 Pro even without the impedance ada





RingingEars said:


> I really appreciated your review on these Redcarmoose. I think I'm putting these on my "next to buy" list.


Done. Ordered the AS16 pro's with a silver/grey tripowin cable.
I just got these in today:


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## RingingEars (Aug 3, 2022)

deleted. Double post


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## bhazard (Aug 4, 2022)

AS16 Pro came in today by surprise (that was really quick). I ordered the Lyra like 1-2 weeks prior and they arrived near the same time.

That BA bass needs some extra boost despite being a slightly warm signature.

Once that's boosted, the mids need little adjustment as the bass boost evens them out a bit. I'm liking a small boost around 500Hz. Refinements in 1-3kHz maybe?

Treble I haven't figured out yet. A little more extension wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure it's needed and where. 4800kHz slight boost helped amongst the raised bass shelf.

The impedance choice is strange and will make for varying experiences. Not a fan of that.

Throw these on the AZ09 Pro, boost bass a bit, and you have a high performance, high value TWS set under $100. Best KZ set as of now. Mid centric, actually tuned to highlight the strengths of an all BA set, and a great departure from their "standard" tune.

I'm debating this and the TRN TA1 Max as my current favorites. Both are stellar, but those new Zero IEMs could be just as good or better.

Worth $40 or $50? Yes and yes, unless the newcomers beat them at half the price. Still, 8 BAs each ear for $50? We've been spoiled for awhile now, and I still love it.


----------



## bhazard

Forgot to mention, it actually takes EQ in the subbass and midbass region quite well up to around a 3-4dB boost. Adds back all the bass otherwise missing for those of us who like it.


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## Carpet

RingingEars said:


> Done. Ordered the AS16 pro's with a silver/grey tripowin cable.


Tripowin Zonie?


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## Barndoor (Aug 4, 2022)

Anyone want to join a group buy on Ali for AS16pro?


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## SenorChang8

Barndoor said:


> Anyone want to join a group buy on Ali for AS16pro?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOPr6JI


Sorry the horse has already bolted. 

Thanks to the helpful impressions and reviews here and some pushing from Aliexpress with their coupons, I took the plunge on AS16pro last night. 

Will be my long overdue introduction to KZ and all BA IEM.


----------



## Barndoor

SenorChang8 said:


> Sorry the horse has already bolted.
> 
> Thanks to the helpful impressions and reviews here and some pushing from Aliexpress with their coupons, I took the plunge on AS16pro last night.
> 
> Will be my long overdue introduction to KZ and all BA IEM.


All good, someone joined, so order placed


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## RingingEars

Carpet said:


> Tripowin Zonie?


Yeah. I just got the gold and silver set for my BLONs and really like it. It's well built and really soft so I bought another one (silver/grey) for the AS16s.


----------



## RingingEars

SenorChang8 said:


> Sorry the horse has already bolted.
> 
> Thanks to the helpful impressions and reviews here and some pushing from Aliexpress with their coupons, I took the plunge on AS16pro last night.
> 
> Will be my long overdue introduction to KZ and all BA IEM.


Same here. I picked up a pair on Ali yesterday. I just got my shipping notification.


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## paulwasabii

bhazard said:


> AS16 Pro came in today by surprise (that was really quick). I ordered the Lyra like 1-2 weeks prior and they arrived near the same time.
> 
> That BA bass needs some extra boost despite being a slightly warm signature.
> 
> ...


I don't know about AZ09 Pro, but I did measure mine on the CCA BTX.


----------



## Carpet

Barndoor said:


> Anyone want to join a group buy on Ali for AS16pro?


Cheaper special deal for $39 is up at the moment, link in the "deals DISCUSSION thread".

Good for  another 1 day 9 hours, so for anyone who missed the release price here's your chance.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post.692119/post-17081451


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## PhonoPhi (Aug 4, 2022)

My aecond AS16 pro (first ordered) arrived today,  look sleek:



Black aluminum is heavily anodized/coated; should be good for wear & tear. Titanum grey could work out best - perhaps for "pro ultra" 

No units variation (alleged for ESX by the same "unbiased reviewers" that perpetuated KZ driver problems and bashed all recent KZs ).

ESX grew on me as a complimentary DD to all-BAs to fill Blon-03 and Aria's niche for me.

I have enjoyed AS16 pro with Tempotec BHD today for even softer mellow signature, as super-AS10


----------



## Barndoor

Carpet said:


> Cheaper special deal for $39 is up at the moment, link in the "deals DISCUSSION thread".
> 
> Good for  another 1 day 9 hours, so for anyone who missed the release price here's your chance.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post.692119/post-17081451


I did see that one, but was concerned about the seller so avoided.


----------



## Carpet

Barndoor said:


> I did see that one, but was concerned about the seller so avoided.


I've had several orders from that store, they've been fast and reliable so far. Alitools rating now 94% and only 3% dissatisfied customers. KZ Official Store is also 94% but 5% dissatisfied.


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## Barndoor

Carpet said:


> I've had several orders from that store, they've been fast and reliable so far. Alitools rating now 94% and only 3% dissatisfied customers. KZ Official Store is also 94% but 5% dissatisfied.


Thanks, I'll know for the future. Price with the group buy was AU$62 (circa US$43) with free shipping, so only AU$3 more expensive and still a good saving to most other stores.


----------



## SiggyFraud

Carpet said:


> Cheaper special deal for $39 is up at the moment, link in the "deals DISCUSSION thread".
> 
> Good for  another 1 day 9 hours, so for anyone who missed the release price here's your chance.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post.692119/post-17081451


This code also worked for me 8AUG3. It should further reduce the price by another $3.


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## brsdrgn

I ordered a pair also. Let's see how this will turn out. I haven't purchased any kz product since kz asx.


----------



## nraymond

Just received my KZ AS16 Pro, and wanted to post a quick impression compared to the AS12 - the AS16 Pro comes across as a bit more refined, with a little less bass. This is with FDBRO balanced cable, plugged into a TempoTec Sonata BHD, connected to a Temptec V1 for music playback. My preferred tip for the AS12 is the JVC Spiral Dot, which works fine with the AS16 Pro, but with the slightly reduced bass output, I decided to try the bassiest tip in my collection, so bassy I hadn't found a a good pairing on any of my other IEMs, the New Bee Silicone Eartip, and I think it works well. I'll need to listen more, but electronic music sounds good on the AS16 Pro with the New Bee Silicone. For some reason, they're not available right now on Amazon (they were $6.99 for six pairs when I bought them):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H9PWD5Y/

So if you feel the AS16 Pro is lacking bass, try putting the bassiest tips you have on them, they might surprise you!


----------



## RingingEars

nraymond said:


> Just received my KZ AS16 Pro, and wanted to post a quick impression compared to the AS12 - the AS16 Pro comes across as a bit more refined, with a little less bass. This is with FDBRO balanced cable, plugged into a TempoTec Sonata BHD, connected to a Temptec V1 for music playback. My preferred tip for the AS12 is the JVC Spiral Dot, which works fine with the AS16 Pro, but with the slightly reduced bass output, I decided to try the bassiest tip in my collection, so bassy I hadn't found a a good pairing on any of my other IEMs, the New Bee Silicone Eartip, and I think it works well. I'll need to listen more, but electronic music sounds good on the AS16 Pro with the New Bee Silicone. For some reason, they're not available right now on Amazon (they were $6.99 for six pairs when I bought them):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H9PWD5Y/
> 
> So if you feel the AS16 Pro is lacking bass, try putting the bassiest tips you have on them, they might surprise you!


I have a set of the CP100(red) I'm going to try when mine arrive. I'll report back...


----------



## independent

Hi. What's the treble energy of these as16 pros compared to other well known KZs? ZS7 for example. Thanks in advance for any replies


----------



## smartypants (Aug 6, 2022)

I have 2nd pair of ZES one died. I have most of KZ lineup and 7hz timeless and Fiio FH5s. I can't stop listening to ZES. Certain transitions on ZES are magic, I just want to volume up. But I have to flick my ear for one of or both drivers to start working in right ear. So sad. Ordered 3rd just in case.
I hope I can find people to say that music it outputs is more emotional rather than specific and compliant. Using TRN balanced cable on either Shangling Up5 or Fiio BTR5. Waiting for Q5C in the mail.

Maybe it sounds much like Sony XBA-H3 that I lost. I have to get hands on XBA-Z5 sometime. I wonder if tribid be too clear and clinical for me like Yanyin X HBB Mahina. Plus sonys sport 16mm driver.


----------



## loganzhengx

PhonoPhi said:


> My aecond AS16 pro (first ordered) arrived today,  look sleek:
> 
> Black aluminum is heavily anodized/coated; should be good for wear & tear. Titanum grey could work out best - perhaps for "pro ultra"
> 
> ...


try my eq for esx
GraphicEQ: 200 -6.5; 250 -3.5; 300 -3; 400 -2.5; 500 -2; 600 -1.5; 700 -1.7; 800 -1.8; 900 -2.2; 1000 -2.5; 1125 -3.5; 1250 -4; 1500 -6.5; 2400 -6.5; 2576 -3.2; 3013.1 0; 3300 -2.5; 4000 -4.5; 4513.6 -13.8; 4912.5 -8.9; 6000 -7.5; 6100 -5.5; 6996.6 -0.7; 8000 -5.5; 8824 -13.6; 9000 -9.5; 9400 -6.5; 9900.14 -6.5


----------



## XerusKun

independent said:


> Hi. What's the treble energy of these as16 pros compared to other well known KZs? ZS7 for example. Thanks in advance for any replies


Quite tamed and relaxed (no edge to the treble really, some people may also find it lacking). One of the most tamed treble presentation by KZ/CCA in my opinion along with DQ6S.


----------



## nihil23

nraymond said:


> Just received my KZ AS16 Pro, and wanted to post a quick impression compared to the AS12 - the AS16 Pro comes across as a bit more refined, with a little less bass. This is with FDBRO balanced cable, plugged into a TempoTec Sonata BHD, connected to a Temptec V1 for music playback. My preferred tip for the AS12 is the JVC Spiral Dot, which works fine with the AS16 Pro, but with the slightly reduced bass output, I decided to try the bassiest tip in my collection, so bassy I hadn't found a a good pairing on any of my other IEMs, the New Bee Silicone Eartip, and I think it works well. I'll need to listen more, but electronic music sounds good on the AS16 Pro with the New Bee Silicone. For some reason, they're not available right now on Amazon (they were $6.99 for six pairs when I bought them):
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H9PWD5Y/
> 
> So if you feel the AS16 Pro is lacking bass, try putting the bassiest tips you have on them, they might surprise you!


Does the nozzles has the same diameter?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 8, 2022)

nihil23 said:


> Does the nozzles has the same diameter?


Yes, the same nozzles (mesh is denser on Pro grids) the same shell with a different plate as original AS16.



loganzhengx said:


> try my eq for esx
> GraphicEQ: 200 -6.5; 250 -3.5; 300 -3; 400 -2.5; 500 -2; 600 -1.5; 700 -1.7; 800 -1.8; 900 -2.2; 1000 -2.5; 1125 -3.5; 1250 -4; 1500 -6.5; 2400 -6.5; 2576 -3.2; 3013.1 0; 3300 -2.5; 4000 -4.5; 4513.6 -13.8; 4912.5 -8.9; 6000 -7.5; 6100 -5.5; 6996.6 -0.7; 8000 -5.5; 8824 -13.6; 9000 -9.5; 9400 -6.5; 9900.14 -6.5


Along your lines, I tried ESX with CX31993 and it synergized very well for a brighter more cheerful signature.




With the soft colour- matching and electron-friendly cable, it is just a mighty setup under $50

Then I was tired a bit and switched to BHD for more relaxing sound.
ESX is very synergetically friendly IEM.
ESX continued to grow on me to become my favourite single DD (to complement all-BA IEMs).



XerusKun said:


> Quite tamed and relaxed (no edge to the treble really, some people may also find it lacking). One of the most tamed treble presentation by KZ/CCA in my opinion along with DQ6S.


Very nice review on ESX!

As for AS16 pro, the teble is quite nice and gentle, but then AST, CCA CA16, CA10 and AS10 would be gentler in their treble to me.
Higher impedance does bring more treble for the Pro.

I "crafted" two variable balanced (2.5 mm) impedance adapters:



The hot glue is my ersatz of the "duck tape", I did "sculpt" the enclosures 

The adapter above is just a volume control cable (1 kOhm resistor) adapted (my adaptation of the adapter ) to a balanced mode.
This type of volume control is arguably the best variable impedance adapter for jusr under $5.

Below are the adapter with two variable resistors for fine and very precise (though quite painful) adjustment of the impedance on each channel from ca. 0.5 to 22.5 Ohm.

A lot of fun with all-BA IEMs, I did not expect that much variation/changes 
A powerful DAC is really helpful to fully enjoy these adapters.


----------



## XerusKun

Ahmm...


----------



## RingingEars

I just got the email that my AS16 pro's just landed stateside. Should just be a couple more days


----------



## unifutomaki

XerusKun said:


> Ahmm...


some interesting choices were made there


----------



## RingingEars

unifutomaki said:


> some interesting choices were made there


Ooooofta!


----------



## DynamicEars

XerusKun said:


> Ahmm...



For split second I thought a of new multi driver KZ with great tuning because of "VX" word had me thinking about TRN VX
new single driver TWS, great tuning, questionable stability, batt life, codec and connection.


----------



## Carpet

DynamicEars said:


> For split second I thought a of new multi driver KZ with great tuning because of "VX" word had me thinking about TRN VX
> new single driver TWS, great tuning, questionable stability, batt life, codec and connection.


So I can buy a single DD TWS with a BT codec that isn't supported on my phone. Then I can playback with a worse codec than my current gear supports. HELL YEAH!


----------



## dharmasteve (Aug 10, 2022)

Just got the KZ AS 16 Pro. Added a 10cm extension cable that I used on the LG V30 to trick it into quad dac mode. It's my only all BA set. Surprised the bass is so good and has impact. I like these, they sound good. Do all BA sets need burn-in? Using L Spiral Dots (Except for a NiceHCK single BA).


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> For split second I thought a of new multi driver KZ with great tuning because of "VX" word had me thinking about TRN VX
> new single driver TWS, great tuning, questionable stability, batt life, codec and connection.



Wow I had PTSD listening to the TRN VX haha!
Super shouty and fatiguing (though it had good technicalities).


----------



## Carpet

baskingshark said:


> Wow I had PTSD listening to the TRN VX haha!
> Super shouty and fatiguing (though it had good technicalities).


Thank you for that, I'll cross it off the list.

I almost bought it on sale!


----------



## Viber

FiGuY1017 said:


> I find myself frustrated with iems because sometimes I find my self enjoying my beloved Zsr off my Coolpad phone more than my Xelento or n5005 via expensive dap, of course they aren't as refined, but man are they fun, powerful and Punchy lol.



I find myself frustrated because i cant buy 2 more ZSRs because KZ tweaked\ruined them.   Their price-performance ratio was insane, actually end game *for most people* imo.


----------



## brsdrgn

Viber said:


> I find myself frustrated because i cant buy 2 more ZSRs because KZ tweaked\ruined them.   Their price-performance ratio was insane, actually end game *for most people* imo.


I thought I was alone. Zsr was my first KZ IEM and I'm still loving the sound quality. The treble is a little piercing but deep bass and good soundstage.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Still have a old green pair somewhere I guess I need to find them and compare to these new ones


----------



## brsdrgn

brsdrgn said:


> I ordered a pair also. Let's see how this will turn out. I haven't purchased any kz product since kz asx.


Btw  there's less than 24 hours left for the seller to ship. And my impression about 'Earphone Factory Derect Store' won't be good i guess....


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

brsdrgn said:


> I thought I was alone. Zsr was my first KZ IEM and I'm still loving the sound quality. The treble is a little piercing but deep bass and good soundstage.


You are not alone. Best value IEM kz ever made. And that's very, very rich praise.


----------



## Aparker2005

So this may be a dumb question, but ever since I got my custom molded Ultimate Ears UE5 Pros, I've always wondered as far as tech specs, how iems like my CCA Ca16 or CRA, compare? 

Is it mostly just the custom fit, and driver details? The CCAs both sound wonderful, and almost have more bass than my UEs. I'm a drummer and use these mostly for on stage performance. 

I can definitely tell I get more lows from the CCAs than the UEs.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 14, 2022)

I continued to experiment with variable impedances, made a bit more refined version (balanced, 100-Ohm 10-turn resistors, variable connectivity):




And the super winner of the higher impedance is AST! Just amazing: its quite loose and ample (for BA) bass gets more focused and refined, with more treble (!!) brought to life - the drivers are all there; while retaining smooth planar-like upper mids of the BA array at higher impedances (50-100 Ohm).

Good source is really helpful for handling higher loads properly.I largely experimented with Tempotec E44 and BHD, and a bit with CX31993 pro.

The later coupled with a simple volume control cable (1 kOhm):



can bring non-balanced "variable impedance setup" for well under $20, so finally the cable that can really deliver all the infinite variations of sound beyond any wild imagination


----------



## Alpha Whale (Aug 14, 2022)

Viber said:


> I find myself frustrated because i cant buy 2 more ZSRs because KZ tweaked\ruined them.   Their price-performance ratio was insane, actually end game *for most people* imo.




I definitely stand by my previous post (below).


Alpha Whale said:


> It was a huge disappointment when all of the backup ZSRs I ordered had a different tuning than my original set. I was so disappointed. The v1 had the perfect amount of top end air and low end kick with a fairly good midrange. The v2 has lost the air. KZ dialed back the treble while thickening the bass. It's too slow and overwhelming. The ZSRv1 sounds like the ED16 with a much wider soundstage despite the ZSR's slight increase to its midbass punch. Unfortunately, while the ED16 is a very good in-ear, I prefer the ZSRv1 for its wider soundstage and thicker low end tuning. After my disappointment I actually had to order the last few ED16s available on Amazon so I could get as close to the ZSRv1 sound signature as possible. I can EQ them for midbass punch but the ZSRv1's super wide soundstage is reigned in on the ED16. The ZSRv2's  wide soundstage is present but the presentation sounds veiled and dark in comparison.
> 
> IMO, KZ retuned the ZSR due to criticism in some reviews about the upper treble. Crinacle's graphs show a ridiculous spike at approximately 8khz but the treble on my ZSRv1 doesn't sound anywhere near that peaky. Anyway, when KZ retuned the ZSR they ruined it. My three backup ZSR's were a total of $75 (still have them). I should have returned them but I thought that perhaps I could open up a set and see if it's possible for me to work around KZ's neurotic behavior. Problem is my reluctance to risk damaging the only set of v1's I own.
> 
> ...



The only option you have today is to locate an ES3 and purchase it/them before it disappears as well.
https://www.amazon.com/KZ-Dynamic-Hybrid-Headphones-without/dp/B076H3JZNJ





It will not sound exactly the same but it will be close. The different faceplate and single balanced armature keep the ES3 a small step below the ZSR but because it is the same era it will have the same ZSR drivers and it will have the same stompin' bass and vivid yet restrained midrange. The ZSR (version1) has better definitionin in said midrange due to the dual balanced armatures. The ES3 will not have the ZSR wide and open soundstage but if you don't mind modding your ES3 you could probably open up the sound by removing the faceplate and drilling tiny holes in 3 or 4 strategic (see pic) but inconspicuous locations.





If that is not acceptable or doable then my highest recommendation for a hybrid would be the ZSX.
It's next level in my opinion and it will not disappoint you.

https://www.amazon.com/KINBOOFI-Headphone-Earphone-Detachable-Musician/dp/B07XCKQVCL/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?crid=2CUW3JFG62VGG&keywords=KZ+ZSX&qid=1660510020&sprefix=kz+zsx,aps,197&sr=8-6&th=1&psc=1

There is another seller on Amazon that sells the ZSX for approximately $53 as opposed to the $64 one in my included link but I can not post the link (banned vendor). You'll have to do your due diligence to find it but it's not difficult.

The ZSX vs ZSR.
a) different faceplates
b) ZSX has upgraded nozzle (with a lip this time)

ZSX pretty much fits exactly like a ZSR.










It has 5 balanced armatures as opposed to the 2 in the ZSR and thankfully KZ put only one in the nozzle.





Bottom line:

You'll get a more refined sound that just as much "fun" as the beloved ZSR (version 1).
You'll get a more refined finished product (better nozzle, upgraded faceplate)
You'll get the same ergonomic fit.

The ZSX may be double the ZSR price but it's worth the investment if you plan on enjoying these for years.

The  ZSX will not disappoint.

The DD bass grabs you and holds you without mercy. 

You'll love it.


----------



## Alpha Whale

PhonoPhi said:


> ESX is very synergetically friendly IEM.
> ESX continued to grow on me to become my favourite single DD (to complement all-BA IEMs).



Glad to hear it. ESX seems to be an interesting enough model to listen to and own (like the Tri-Dy DQ6).

I have two ESX and one CCA Lyra on order with upgrade cables for both.  
$100+/- can still get you great gear in 2022.

I'm hoping the ESX can double up for "classical" duty in a pinch.


----------



## Carpet

brsdrgn said:


> Btw  there's less than 24 hours left for the seller to ship. And my impression about 'Earphone Factory Derect Store' won't be good i guess....


My AS16 pros have left China. This is my forth order with Earphone Factory Derect Store, no problems with them so far. They have had more orders for KZ AS16 pro than any store except the KZ official store. Not surprising, given they have the best price. It could be because of low stock?


----------



## unifutomaki

ESX is an interesting one. It’s the bassiest set in my collection by far and I still think it sounds pretty hazy and low-res even after switching to AET07 tips - recessed vocals, far-away cymbals, guitars lack bite, there’s an overall sense of hollowness to the sound. Yet every now and then I pick them up and still find them pretty enjoyable when I’m not thinking of these things.


----------



## brsdrgn

Carpet said:


> My AS16 pros have left China. This is my forth order with Earphone Factory Derect Store, no problems with them so far. They have had more orders for KZ AS16 pro than any store except the KZ official store. Not surprising, given they have the best price. It could be because of low stock?


Mine also left. The seller shipped before right before the deadline. It could be a low stock issue because that seller indeed got a lot of orders. The price was really good with the coupons. Now it's a little higher.


----------



## r31ya

From the discord, 
while KZ AS16Pro have pretty positive response. it have one finicky aspect of Impedance.
It seems KZ will release AS16Pro-Revised where it will be able to pump out the target curve sound with low impedance source


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> From the discord,
> while KZ AS16Pro have pretty positive response. it have one finicky aspect of Impedance.
> It seems KZ will release AS16Pro-Revised where it will be able to pump out the target curve sound with low impedance source



You do realize I ordered a 30 ohm impedance adapter yesterday, and the AZ AS16 Pro, the week before. Since the AS16 pro was better than the AS16 at a lower price, does this mean the KZ AS16 pro Max turbo revised MkII will be even cheaper?


----------



## unifutomaki

Carpet said:


> You do realize I ordered a 30 ohm impedance adapter yesterday, and the AZ AS16 Pro, the week before. Since the AS16 pro was better than the AS16 at a lower price, does this mean the KZ AS16 pro Max turbo revised MkII will be even cheaper?


KZ AS16 Pro Max Ultra. Calling it now.


----------



## dharmasteve

The AS16 Pro is a great all BA IEM. It actually took me by surprise how good it is. Great throughout the FR. Very happy to use it and it is competing with some big hitters. Definitely one I will use in any rotation.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 15, 2022)

r31ya said:


> From the discord,
> while KZ AS16Pro have pretty positive response. it have one finicky aspect of Impedance.
> It seems KZ will release AS16Pro-Revised where it will be able to pump out the target curve sound with low impedance source


I hope that KZ will properly identify this revision, unlike some quiet revisions of the past making many understandably frustrated.

Then there are two ways to revise: one (easier and more limited) is just to add an 18-Ohm resistor, another is to properly retune with the low impedance source to their target curve. The latter I could get just for curiosity of the comparison.

As for the name, AS16 pro classic would be the more fitting one, since the revision is much closer to original AS16.

Similar to original AS16, the revision may be perceived less warmly given the tuning targeted for classical and acoustic music (less bass, less warm, more prominent treble); it would be interesting to hear comparisons of real people.

If different impedances must be tested (which can be quite some fun, if not taking you away from your music) then the simple volume control (1 kOhm resistor), as this one (it can be purchased more economically, just one of the first hits) can be recommended, where you can get 20-30 Ohm and more different values, can trigger your source into high gain mode, and have more fun 

The revised version of AST (perhaps also incidentally tuned with the "dialed "30 Ohm source impedance) would be really great.


----------



## loganzhengx

unifutomaki said:


> ESX is an interesting one. It’s the bassiest set in my collection by far and I still think it sounds pretty hazy and low-res even after switching to AET07 tips - recessed vocals, far-away cymbals, guitars lack bite, there’s an overall sense of hollowness to the sound. Yet every now and then I pick them up and still find them pretty enjoyable when I’m not thinking of these things.


plz try my eq and deep insert
GraphicEQ: 12.7 -9.6; 200 -6.5; 250 -3.5; 300 -3; 400 -2.5; 500 -2; 600 -1.5; 700 -1.7; 800 -1.8; 900 -2.2; 1000 -2.5; 1125 -3.5; 1250 -4; 1500 -6.5; 2400 -6.5; 2576 -3.2; 3013.1 0; 3300 -2.5; 4000 -4.5; 4513.6 -13.8; 4912.5 -8.9; 5583.1 -7.7; 5904 -1.9; 6321.3 -1.9; 6996.6 -0.7; 8000 -5.5; 8824 -13.6; 9000 -9.5; 9400 -6.5; 9900.14 -6.5


----------



## HAMS

Eq above 4Khz is very ear dependant. You can Eq bellow that with graph and manually above.


----------



## jananan78

i just ordered as16 pro and a 18ohm impedance adapter. let's see what happens. always been a fan of dd+ba hybrids, let's see if as16 pro lives up to the hype.


----------



## 4ceratops

jananan78 said:


> i just ordered as16 pro and a 18ohm impedance adapter. let's see what happens. always been a fan of dd+ba hybrids, let's see if as16 pro lives up to the hype.


Warm regards, I hope with the AS16 pro we will both be happy. Just to point out that in this case it is not a hybrid, but pure BA.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Well, damn.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004651439982.html




















They actualy have a new planar driver I havent seen used before.


----------



## DynamicEars

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, damn.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004651439982.html
> 
> 
> ...



Think ill blind buy this.. long time not doing so


----------



## baskingshark

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, damn.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004651439982.html
> 
> 
> ...



If the graph is legit, the pinna gain looks like 12 - 13 dB which is a bit worrisome.


----------



## RingingEars

RikudouGoku said:


> Well, damn.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004651439982.html
> 
> 
> ...


Well damn indeed... Saved


----------



## RikudouGoku

baskingshark said:


> If the graph is legit, the pinna gain looks like 12 - 13 dB which is a bit worrisome.









Their graphs are pretty accurate nowadays (not their scale though).



(Graph scrapped by Lixeem in my discord server, thanks.)


----------



## DynamicEars

RikudouGoku said:


> Their graphs are pretty accurate nowadays (not their scale though).
> 
> (Graph scrapped by Lixeem in my discord server, thanks.)



Ill take my words back.. skipping again lol


----------



## jananan78

4ceratops said:


> Warm regards, I hope with the AS16 pro we will both be happy. Just to point out that in this case it is not a hybrid, but pure BA.


yes i am aware. that's why hope the BA bass can live up to the hype, else i will just keep it for classical and instrumental stuff


----------



## RingingEars

jananan78 said:


> yes i am aware. that's why hope the BA bass can live up to the hype, else i will just keep it for classical and instrumental stuff


It looks like my AS16 pro will be here today. I'll post my initial impressions later.


----------



## brsdrgn

DynamicEars said:


> Ill take my words back.. skipping again lol


You made me laugh.

I think waiting a little longer is better. I'm super curious about these though. 

Looks like accessories still s... I see transparent looking tips. However, it has been a while since I purchased my last kz so Idk if they changed it before.


----------



## loganzhengx

RikudouGoku said:


> 嗯，该死的。
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004651439982.html
> 
> 
> ...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/auto-eq-for-kz-esx.964427/


----------



## loganzhengx

unifutomaki said:


> ESX 是一个有趣的。这是迄今为止我收藏中最低音的一套，即使在切换到 AET07 提示之后，我仍然认为它听起来相当朦胧和低分辨率 - 凹陷的人声，遥远的镲片，吉他缺乏咬合力，声音有一种整体的空洞感。然而，我时不时地拿起它们，当我不去想这些事情时，仍然觉得它们很有趣。


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/auto-eq-for-kz-esx.964427/


----------



## loganzhengx

CHiBLaST said:


> 我得到了 ESX，是的，听这些真的很有趣。低音很多，不会流到中音和高音，中音不像我想的那样悠闲/凹陷。我害怕它们会像 DT770（32 欧姆还是 80 欧姆？），但它们非常好。高音几乎处于边缘。足够热，但在你真正增加音量之前不要打耳洞。细节是存在的，但它们有点难以挑选，尽管有这么多的低音，但分层比我预期的要好。成像也比我预期的好。但只有一件事我不明白，那就是声场。声场大佬们在哪里？也许是因为提示？老实说，我对小费没有意见，它们很舒服，不会滑倒，一点也不热。如果我将切换到 Kbear07，提示音场会打开吗？根据评论，我对声场寄予厚望，但它显然缺乏。我有 M40x，我猜这些就像他的兄弟 M50x。
> 
> 总的来说，即使没有合适的声场，我也很惊讶它们有多好，如果有声场，这些将是价格范围内的真正杀手。良好的低音，不错的中音，可控的高音，价格足够的细节，非常好的成像。
> 
> 错过了引人入胜的声音哈哈。


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/auto-eq-for-kz-esx.964427/


----------



## loganzhengx

unifutomaki said:


> 也许我被我的 A4000 宠坏了，但 ESX 声场在我的耳朵里充其量只是平均水平——就像绝大多数 IEM 一样。不可怕，但不是令人惊叹的 3D 全息或任何东西。


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/auto-eq-for-kz-esx.964427/


----------



## RingingEars (Aug 16, 2022)

RingingEars said:


> It looks like my AS16 pro will be here today. I'll post my initial impressions later.


AS16 pro
Holy clarity Batman. Ok. This is a tuff one. I'm going to have to spend some time with these. initial impression is they are *ultra clear*. I don't know if these are for me honestly. I had a pair of HD800 a few years ago and sold them because they were just to revealing for me which I guess is why I like the HD6.. variants. The AS16 pro remind me of that same HD800 sound signature.
I will stick with it for a few days, but so far I'm on the fence.


----------



## Carpet

baskingshark said:


> If the graph is legit, the pinna gain looks like 12 - 13 dB which is a bit worrisome.


True, but it's peaking at 2.5kHz and falling off nicely after that. So 5kHz doesn't look annoyingly boosted. Sub-bass and treble extension both look good. Certainly won't be as laid back as P1 Max.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

RingingEars said:


> AS16 pro
> Holy clarity Batman. Ok. This is a tuff one. I'm going to have to spend some time with these. initial impression is they are *ultra clear*. I don't know if these are for me honestly. I had a pair of HD800 a few years ago and sold them because they were just to revealing for me which I guess is why I like the HD6.. variants. The AS16 pro remind me of that same HD800 sound signature.
> I will stick with it for a few days, but so far I'm on the fence.


I'll buy them off you if you decide to part with them


----------



## RingingEars

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> I'll buy them off you if you decide to part with them


Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike them. They're just not the sound I prefer, but I'm trying to be a little more open minded in my older age. I'm going to give these an honest chance and see if they grow on me. On certain songs these things really shine. Ghost Call me little sunshine is great. The Who Eminence front not so much...


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

RingingEars said:


> Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike them. They're just not the sound I prefer, but I'm trying to be a little more open minded in my older age. I'm going to give these an honest chance and see if they grow on me. On certain songs these things really shine. Ghost Call me little sunshine is great. The Who Eminence front not so much...


I hope you enjoy them and post more of your impressions!

Also, listening to The Who goes well with your username.


----------



## DynamicEars

Carpet said:


> True, but it's peaking at 2.5kHz and falling off nicely after that. So 5kHz doesn't look annoyingly boosted. Sub-bass and treble extension both look good. Certainly won't be as laid back as P1 Max.


My concern is on too much sub bass even the shelf is good, and that 2.5khz is too much. That area is difficult to tame / damper. Blockage tame that area, but will made bass smeared. If that graph is correct and already dampened, its hard to retune with mods. 
Timeless also have 2.5khz peak, had to tame it down without bloating bass but best i can do made 4-6 khz lower too (i wish i can boost the 4-6 khz a little bit, while need to tame the 7-8khz mountain)


----------



## baskingshark

DynamicEars said:


> My concern is on too much sub bass even the shelf is good, and that 2.5khz is too much. That area is difficult to tame / damper. Blockage tame that area, but will made bass smeared. If that graph is correct and already dampened, its hard to retune with mods.
> Timeless also have 2.5khz peak, had to tame it down without bloating bass but best i can do made 4-6 khz lower too (i wish i can boost the 4-6 khz a little bit, while need to tame the 7-8khz mountain)



Agree 100%. While graphs don't tell the full story, they do hint at what the IEM will sound like tonally, and I'm quite scared of the upper mids region here.

I've no horse in this race (not really a fan of planar timbre), but with so many planar IEMs being released on a monthly basis (Kinera, DUNU and Moondrop are gonna release their planars soon), there's really no harm waiting for first adopter reviews before springing a purchase on this KZ/CCA planar.


----------



## Carpet

baskingshark said:


> Agree 100%. While graphs don't tell the full story, they do hint at what the IEM will sound like tonally, and I'm quite scared of the upper mids region here.
> 
> I've no horse in this race (not really a fan of planar timbre), but with so many planar IEMs being released on a monthly basis (Kinera, DUNU and Moondrop are gonna release their planars soon), there's really no harm waiting for first adopter reviews before springing a purchase on this KZ/CCA planar.


If they were offering a 20 - 30% discount to sweeten the deal for early adopters, I would probably blind buy this. But there is no limited window of opportunity here so I will wait. KZ releases are often on reviewers desks pretty early on. We aren't even waiting on nuanced reports. At this price we are looking for "non-disaster" assessments. As long as these perform reasonably well, they are an interesting option for variety. Although these are cheap, we only get KZ level of accessories, which pushes them closer to Dioko in terms of real cost. Regardless of how that Pina gain sounds, these are going to be a huge gateway entry in the planar market. I think it would be a safe  bet, that Kinera, DUNU and Moondrop aren't going to undercut these.

Do I expect them to out perform Muse, Kirin, P1 plus - I bloody hope so
Do I expect them to outperform Timeless or Hooke X - no
Better than Dioko - maybe?
Would they be an interesting contrast to Giant Panda - yes


----------



## unifutomaki

After seeing that graph, I’m definitely waiting


----------



## RingingEars (Aug 17, 2022)

I just bought the Seeaudio Yume a couple days ago so I'll spend some more time with the AS16 pro's until the Yume come in, but the Hook-X is next on my to-do list. Definitely waiting for reviews on the KZs.


----------



## Podster

RingingEars said:


> I just bought the Seeaudio Yume a couple days ago so I'll spend some more time with the AS16 pro's until the Yume come in, but the Hook-X is next on my to-do list. Definitely waiting for reviews on the KZs.


Howdy KZ fans, just dropping by running around here  Congrats on the Yume's and look forward to your take I'm still old skool KZ but also just an incredible iem for the money Enjoy your Jamming






Pod pretty much ended his KZ aspirations with the Terminators, these and ZS7's are all that see ear time anymore I enjoy reading everyone's take on new releases and sibling type companies CCA and that stuff. Got too confusing for this old fart And I may have upped my threshold


----------



## RingingEars

Podster said:


> Howdy KZ fans, just dropping by running around here  Congrats on the Yume's and look forward to your take I'm still old skool KZ but also just an incredible iem for the money Enjoy your Jamming
> 
> 
> 
> Pod pretty much ended his KZ aspirations with the Terminators, these and ZS7's are all that see ear time anymore I enjoy reading everyone's take on new releases and sibling type companies CCA and that stuff. Got too confusing for this old fart And I may have upped my threshold


That's a sexy setup! Is that a Little Bear?


----------



## Podster

RingingEars said:


> That's a sexy setup! Is that a Little Bear?


No, not sure if you remember Martin and his Kickstarter Hybrid valve amp but this is it.


----------



## RingingEars

Podster said:


> No, not sure if you remember Martin and his Kickstarter Hybrid valve amp but this is it.


Nope. I missed that one. That's a nice looking piece of gear.


----------



## Nimweth

Podster said:


> Howdy KZ fans, just dropping by running around here  Congrats on the Yume's and look forward to your take I'm still old skool KZ but also just an incredible iem for the money Enjoy your Jamming
> 
> 
> 
> Pod pretty much ended his KZ aspirations with the Terminators, these and ZS7's are all that see ear time anymore I enjoy reading everyone's take on new releases and sibling type companies CCA and that stuff. Got too confusing for this old fart And I may have upped my threshold


BA10,  ZSX and ZS7. Absolutely!


----------



## Podster

Nimweth said:


> BA10,  ZSX and ZS7. Absolutely!


Indeed Nim, the KZ Tri-Fecta for old Pod  My order of preference left to right are.........





For me the X's defined KZ Hybrid (seemed to solve both Sizzle and Boom), the 7's were the final and for sure best iteration of the ZS Series and of course my fave all time KZ and all BA iem (Some may beg to differ) and I have DM6's, HQ12's as well as some other all BA iem's but none sound better to my ears than the 10's
I kinda fibbed too because for the longest in KZ output time these were my Hybrid and at one time I believe I owned all 4 colors





Friends are now enjoying the green and black pair and I kept the Red ones for prosperity and the Gray ones because I'm still searching for that extra bass the gray pair was touted to have


----------



## RingingEars (Aug 18, 2022)

Podster said:


> Indeed Nim, the KZ Tri-Fecta for old Pod  My order of preference left to right are.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh! the red ones are beautiful. 
I have the red ZS6 and the copper/silver version of that cable in my Ali cart. Apparently there's a sale starting Monday. I'm snagging a set of these. I can't stop looking at them.👀


----------



## Podster

RingingEars said:


> Oh! the red ones are beautiful.
> I have the red ZS6 and the copper/silver version of that cable in my Ali cart. Apparently there's a sale starting Monday. I'm snagging a set of these. I can't stop looking at them.👀


Indeed, the red are my fave of course CA probably hates it but copying is the greatest form of flattery right  LOL I love the 6's but the 7 really was the best outcome of this design imo It's kinda KZ how many I've had over the years!








And of course I had to then start with TRN Cable parties LOL


----------



## RingingEars

Podster said:


> And of course I had to then start with TRN Cable parties LOL


I've been doing the same thing with the Tripowin Zonie cables lately. I just got the Zoe in yesterday. I think that make 6-7 I've bought in the last month. They are just such beautiful, inexpensive cables. 
I'm really loving the state of the IEM market lately. So many great sounding/looking, inexpensive products coming out it's almost overwhelming. I feel like a ping-pong ball trying to keep up with it.


----------



## Podster

RingingEars said:


> I've been doing the same thing with the Tripowin Zonie cables lately. I just got the Zoe in yesterday. I think that make 6-7 I've bought in the last month. They are just such beautiful, inexpensive cables.
> I'm really loving the state of the IEM market lately. So many great sounding/looking, inexpensive products coming out it's almost overwhelming. I feel like a ping-pong ball trying to keep up with it.


LOL, I liken it to a dog chasing his own tail myself! If my wife knew how much I've spent in the portable realm I'd probably be single again:-0 Like you I love a sweet cable and honestly these builders should consider better cables if it means a little more so be it, for me it would kill two birds with one stone  

Nuttin' like some good cable porn eh This one was actually a little overkill for the ZS4's






Went back to the TRN cable on these as they are my working around the house and yard iem's because they fit really snug and ifin I'm going to be sweating on them they better not be $$$$$ iem's!


----------



## Carpet

RingingEars said:


> I've been doing the same thing with the Tripowin Zonie cables lately. I just got the Zoe in yesterday. I think that make 6-7 I've bought in the last month. They are just such beautiful, inexpensive cables.
> I'm really loving the state of the IEM market lately. So many great sounding/looking, inexpensive products coming out it's almost overwhelming. I feel like a ping-pong ball trying to keep up with it.


Did you get any of the new green or blue Zonie cables? They looked good in the photos. 

Just remember you don't have to buy everything new. They are all released with a lot of hype. Few actually live up to it.

I do admit to weakening on the KZ AS16 pro and the CCA PLA13. I waited for feedback on the AS16 pro, but the PLA13 was a blind buy.

Did anyone else wonder about the name of the new CCA planar? PLA is the acronym for People's Liberation Army, and it's made in China!


----------



## RingingEars

Carpet said:


> Did you get any of the new green or blue Zonie cables? They looked good in the photos.
> 
> Just remember you don't have to buy everything new. They are all released with a lot of hype. Few actually live up to it.
> 
> ...


I did. I have the moss and the blue in 2.5mm. The blue looks more like a frosted periwinkle...


----------



## Podster

RingingEars said:


> I did. I have the moss and the blue in 2.5mm. The blue looks more like a frosted periwinkle...


I got that cable, never knew that was the light purple color! Here's another shot to help you push that trigger


----------



## RingingEars

Podster said:


> I got that cable, never knew that was the light purple color! Here's another shot to help you push that trigger


Oh you really didn't think I could wait until the sale on Monday. I bought these 5 mins after I made that comment Got the cable too...


----------



## dududs

I'm a beginner in this hobby, i bought a quarks but i didn't like it because the lack of bass, i use a kbear stellar as a daily driver now, but i want to try an iem, and im in doubt between ESX and CCA LYRA, which one of these would be better considering i will be using stock tips and cable? I heard that lyra is worst using stock but from this video (that i don't know how much i should rely on, as i said im still a noob), ESX can sound a bit muffled sometimes. I don't want something that have less bass then my stellar but i don't really need something with much more bass than it.


----------



## XerusKun (Aug 19, 2022)

dududs said:


> I'm a beginner in this hobby, i bought a quarks but i didn't like it because the lack of bass, i use a kbear stellar as a daily driver now, but i want to try an iem, and im in doubt between ESX and CCA LYRA, which one of these would be better considering i will be using stock tips and cable? I heard that lyra is worst using stock but from this video (that i don't know how much i should rely on, as i said im still a noob), ESX can sound a bit muffled sometimes. I don't want something that have less bass then my stellar but i don't really need something with much more bass than it.



Lyra is nice (and my opinion beats the SalZero anyday) and has a nice soundstage to boot. Just treat them with a Sony EPEX11 tips and they became amazing. Its quite bassy to some people but I find it quite flat for my ears.

For ESX you need widebore tips like BGVP W01/Kbear07 to tame the bass. And no it isn't muffled by any means when you change the tips. Stock made them too bassy.


----------



## Carpet

dududs said:


> I'm a beginner in this hobby, i bought a quarks but i didn't like it because the lack of bass, i use a kbear stellar as a daily driver now, but i want to try an iem, and im in doubt between ESX and CCA LYRA, which one of these would be better considering i will be using stock tips and cable? I heard that lyra is worst using stock but from this video (that i don't know how much i should rely on, as i said im still a noob), ESX can sound a bit muffled sometimes. I don't want something that have less bass then my stellar but i don't really need something with much more bass than it.



KZ EDX Ultra is also pretty good. Not as warm as the ESX, but with better details and tighter bass. Original CCA CRA is also still good, some people find it a little aggressive in the upper mids and treble though. Most of the KZ/CCA releases this year have been pretty good.


----------



## XerusKun

The problem with EDXU is the overtones of instruments is in overdrive. It does not sound good with cymbals dominant tracks. Also they are too artificial sounding, that upper treble is killing any organicness in my music..haha


----------



## Carpet

XerusKun said:


> The problem with EDXU is the overtones of instruments is in overdrive. It does not sound good with cymbals dominant tracks. Also they are too artificial sounding, that upper treble is killing any organicness in my music..haha


It's kind of an opposite to the ESX. More contrast rather than a warm smooth presentation. I like both, but for different reasons.


----------



## XerusKun

Carpet said:


> It's kind of an opposite to the ESX. More contrast rather than a warm smooth presentation. I like both, but for different reasons.


Nice. I found the Lyra and ESX to complement each other instead compared to the EDXU. But yeah it is still a good IEM ngl. I'm just sensitive to the upper treble that's why EDXU is a big nope for me.


----------



## riodgarp

I currently curious which one of our way storing iem will quickly cause damage for the cable? keeping it inside a very narrow case or hanging it on headphone stand?


----------



## DynamicEars

riodgarp said:


> I currently curious which one of our way storing iem will quickly cause damage for the cable? keeping it inside a very narrow case or hanging it on headphone stand?


 Very narrow case for long time without open it at all can make your cable sticky because of moisturizing. So put in dessicant will helps, store them on dry place if possible.
Hanging outside probably safer but that will be untidy looking cables spread around and collecting dust. For me the second option is out of choices because the cables will be in dust bin in few days and I won't be asking who throws the cable.


----------



## XerusKun

riodgarp said:


> I currently curious which one of our way storing iem will quickly cause damage for the cable? keeping it inside a very narrow case or hanging it on headphone stand?


Buy a watchcase. Like this, this is what I'm using right now.


----------



## Carpet

DynamicEars said:


> Very narrow case for long time without open it at all can make your cable sticky because of moisturizing. So put in dessicant will helps, store them on dry place if possible.
> Hanging outside probably safer but that will be untidy looking cables spread around and collecting dust. For me the second option is out of choices because the cables will be in dust bin in few days and I won't be asking who throws the cable.


She who must be obeyed?


----------



## dududs

Thanks for replying guys, also i forgot to mention that i play a bit of fps like csgo/valorant, which of the two (esx - lyra) would be better for it?


----------



## Carpet

riodgarp said:


> I currently curious which one of our way storing iem will quickly cause damage for the cable? keeping it inside a very narrow case or hanging it on headphone stand?



I bought a hearing aid dryer. While I probably could put IEMs in it, I found it's easier to use it for drying out silica gel sachets that come packaged with some of my drugs. Saves on singeing them when I forget I've left them in the oven. 

Even on sale in a couple of days https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004011857565.html



dududs said:


> Thanks for replying guys, also i forgot to mention that i play a bit of fps like csgo/valorant, which of the two (esx - lyra) would be better for it?



I don't have both to compare. For FPS you want good soundstage and imaging, look for those in reviews. Being able to accurately place instruments around you when listening to music, requires pretty much the same thing as listening to footsteps and gunfire in a computer game.


----------



## XerusKun

dududs said:


> Thanks for replying guys, also i forgot to mention that i play a bit of fps like csgo/valorant, which of the two (esx - lyra) would be better for it?


Lyra, it has a more accurate staging than ESX, and explosions aren't that dominating. I can also hear footsteps with them clearly.


----------



## unifutomaki

dududs said:


> I'm a beginner in this hobby, i bought a quarks but i didn't like it because the lack of bass, i use a kbear stellar as a daily driver now, but i want to try an iem, and im in doubt between ESX and CCA LYRA, which one of these would be better considering i will be using stock tips and cable? I heard that lyra is worst using stock but from this video (that i don't know how much i should rely on, as i said im still a noob), ESX can sound a bit muffled sometimes. I don't want something that have less bass then my stellar but i don't really need something with much more bass than it.




Haven’t heard the Lyra, but ESX is definitely bassy and not especially detailed even with wide-bore tips (AET07 in my case). Bass is not particularly tight or fast, and don’t expect especially transparent mids or sparkling treble, but if you aren’t too critical then you could find the ESX pretty enjoyable.


----------



## moisespr123

I did a slight modification to my KZ ZES. The stock grills seem to have issues sometimes where the sound gets unbalanced after a while. After taking them, I noticed that the grills had a lot of glue in them, so I think somehow that may have been affecting the sound balance. It was very random.

Anyway, I took them out and applied a bit of paper towel to them. Sound seems to be more open now, more bass and a bit more forward vocals.
https://moisescardona.me/improve-the-sound-of-the-kz-zes-iem-by-applying-a-piece-of-paper-towel/


----------



## Steve Dave

moisespr123 said:


> I did a slight modification to my KZ ZES. The stock grills seem to have issues sometimes where the sound gets unbalanced after a while. After taking them, I noticed that the grills had a lot of glue in them, so I think somehow that may have been affecting the sound balance. It was very random.
> 
> Anyway, I took them out and applied a bit of paper towel to them. Sound seems to be more open now, more bass and a bit more forward vocals.
> https://moisescardona.me/improve-the-sound-of-the-kz-zes-iem-by-applying-a-piece-of-paper-towel/


Not sure if it's the same but on certain IEMs after extended listening sessions I'd get an issue with moisture blocking up the filters/grills.
Would cause an imbalance like you describe.


----------



## Aparker2005

Alright guys not gonna lie. I just about regret spending the money on my custom mold Ultimate Ears UE5 dual drivers. 

Yesterday we played a huge show and I used them..... They made my drums and the bass guitar nearly distort. Hardly any bass to these. 

Put on my CCA CA16s, and they absolutely rumble. I really love the molded fit, but these particular CCAs are nearly a perfect fit for me. They almost feel as good as my customs. 

Even the dual and single driver KZs  beat these UE sound wise. You'd really think the big names were better better, but I've officially accepted KZ and CCA just sound MUCH better, and the price is just incredible.


----------



## KipNix

Aparker2005 said:


> Alright guys not gonna lie. I just about regret spending the money on my custom mold Ultimate Ears UE5 dual drivers.
> 
> Yesterday we played a huge show and I used them..... They made my drums and the bass guitar nearly distort. Hardly any bass to these.
> 
> ...


You just answered my question about customs. I've always wondered if it's worth the high prices.  I think the state of the technology has caught up to them. 
  The other day I listened to my old ED9. In just a few seconds I realized how far KZ has progressed.


----------



## SenorChang8

Despite the rising costs of everything else KZ/CCA etc keeping their prices relatively low is a breath of fresh air. 

Had a quick listen with AS16 pro whilst it was burning in. For my first all BA set I was impressed with the bass. Mid clarity was also a joy. I can tell I will have fun going through my library with them.


----------



## Aparker2005

I really wanna try the AS16 Pro now, but I think my CCA CA16 are doing a good enough job for what I need on stage. 

May eventually try them though with the rave reviews they're getting.


----------



## Carpet

Aparker2005 said:


> I really wanna try the AS16 Pro now, but I think my CCA CA16 are doing a good enough job for what I need on stage.
> 
> May eventually try them though with the rave reviews they're getting.


I'm expecting the AS16 pro to arrive soon, CCA CA16 will be an interesting comparison. I have a funny feeling the ASF is going out to pasture.


----------



## Aparker2005

Are the Comply tips still the recommended favorite nowadays and will fit the CCAs?


----------



## Carpet (Aug 21, 2022)

Aparker2005 said:


> Are the Comply tips still the recommended favorite nowadays and will fit the CCAs?


CCA CA16 has a smaller nozzle so 4.5 mm tips tend to come off. The treble is already pretty subdued on the CA16 so foams aren't a good match. KBEAR 08 tips work really well. Some people have used SpinFit CP800.

I use Tennmak foams instead of comply. Tougher, last longer and cheaper. They only do 4.5mm and 4.9mm though.


----------



## crabdog

The KZ AS16 might be the best all-BA IEM from KZ yet. It has a warm, balanced sound and nice tight bass. But there's just one thing missing. Check out my full review to learn more.


----------



## nraymond

For anyone looking for an affordable 4.4mm balanced cable with QDC connectors, doesn't have preformed ear hooks, and ships from Amazon in the US, I like this one by FDBRO for $14:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08D6HZN5Y/

It matches my black AS16 Pro well, and I find it more comfortable than cables with preformed ear hooks. I ordered one of the last cables in 2.5mm (now out of stock), looks like there is one last 4.4mm in stock.


----------



## 4ceratops

nraymond said:


> For anyone looking for an affordable 4.4mm balanced cable with QDC connectors, doesn't have preformed ear hooks, and ships from Amazon in the US, I like this one by FDBRO for $14:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08D6HZN5Y/
> 
> It matches my black AS16 Pro well, and I find it more comfortable than cables with preformed ear hooks. I ordered one of the last cables in 2.5mm (now out of stock), looks like there is one last 4.4mm in stock.


I have a question. Isn't a more powerful balanced connection in the case of ultrasensitive KZ AS16 pro counterproductive? I ask this because many reviewers and users, on the contrary, recommend using an impedance adapter (18 or 30 Ohm) using the opposite effect to improve the sound profile.

Have a nice evening everyone.


----------



## RikudouGoku

4ceratops said:


> I have a question. Isn't a more powerful balanced connection in the case of ultrasensitive KZ AS16 pro counterproductive? I ask this because many reviewers and users, on the contrary, recommend using an impedance adapter (18 or 30 Ohm) using the opposite effect to improve the sound profile.


Thats 2 different things. What people are doing with the impedance adapter, is increasing the output impedance of the source to better match what KZ actually tuned the AS16 Pro on. (note that this is only a factor for multi-driver + lower impedance + uneven impedance curve iems, a single DD for example wont have this factor to keep in mind.)
What you are thinking of is the output POWER. Not the Impedance.


----------



## 4ceratops

RikudouGoku said:


> Thats 2 different things. What people are doing with the impedance adapter, is increasing the output impedance of the source to better match what KZ actually tuned the AS16 Pro on. (note that this is only a factor for multi-driver + lower impedance + uneven impedance curve iems, a single DD for example wont have this factor to keep in mind.)
> What you are thinking of is the output POWER. Not the Impedance.


Thank you for the explanation, I won't go to sleep tonight so stupid 🤪


----------



## RikudouGoku

4ceratops said:


> Thank you for the explanation, I won't go to sleep tonight so stupid 🤪


You can use this site to check the impedance curve.
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param14.php#gsc.tab=0


----------



## jananan78

KZ AS16 Pro : first impressions.

are you sure this thing doesn't have a DD ?


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> KZ AS16 Pro : first impressions.
> 
> are you sure this thing doesn't have a DD ?


Mine arrived yesterday. Initial impressions are: my ASF is looking for a new home.


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> Mine arrived yesterday. Initial impressions are: my ASF is looking for a new home.


now waiting for my 18ohm adapter to arrive. but even without it sounds fine from a low impedance source like phone.


----------



## RingingEars

The more time I spend with my AS16 pro's the more I'm liking them, or at least appreciating them for the good qualities they have. I was on the fence with these at first, but I think it was because I've never owned and all BA with that many drivers and it was little overwhelming. The clarity on these things are on a whole different level.


----------



## Carpet

RingingEars said:


> The more time I spend with my AS16 pro's the more I'm liking them, or at least appreciating them for the good qualities they have. I was on the fence with these at first, but I think it was because I've never owned and all BA with that many drivers and it was little overwhelming. The clarity on these things are on a whole different level.



I also passed on the introductory offer for the AS16 Pro, figuring that money could go towards to a better set. When feedback started to come in I regretted not having taken advantage of the discount. Apparently this was a better set. Later when I found a  similar offer, I weakened. I've only had them for a couple of days, but these are really nice. 

They don't have an over-boosted treble to try and give a false sense of resolution at the cost of sibilance (not a trade I consider to be worthwhile). The sub bass is very good and there is enough mid bass to give a lift to note weight and a slight warmth to the tone. That really surprised me for an all BA set. I enjoy listening to a wide variety of music on these. The 30 ohm impedance adapter does make a difference. But in practice, maintaining a constant volume when making A-B comparisons out with other IEMs, is the main reason whether I use it. For portable use it's a no go anyway.

I've learnt to take note of the number of types of driver, rather than the total number (sorry KZ multiplying by two is also cheating). For example, TRI Starsea uses two different BAs and one DD, T800 uses one quad and two twin BAs, CCA CA16 has one DD, two twin and three identical single BAs. In each case the work is being divided among 3 different sets of drivers. So the work of a crossover is equivalent for dividing the signal.


----------



## riodgarp

DynamicEars said:


> Very narrow case for long time without open it at all can make your cable sticky because of moisturizing. So put in dessicant will helps, store them on dry place if possible.
> Hanging outside probably safer but that will be untidy looking cables spread around and collecting dust. For me the second option is out of choices because the cables will be in dust bin in few days and I won't be asking who throws the cable.


actually I has this problem with my old iems collection, not only sticky but also has fungus on it, strangely the fungus seems appear just on wrapped cable (u know, that cheap plastic cable wrap) not on other parts


----------



## jananan78

jananan78 said:


> now waiting for my 18ohm adapter to arrive. but even without it sounds fine from a low impedance source like phone.


trying with kz gold silver copper mixed cable that i got earlier, surely adds to the warmth of the sound signature. swapped out the original dtarline tips to cp100s and the sub bass presence is increased without mudding mids. the shell is indeed a tad larger than zex pro shell, sticks out awkwardly with shallow insertion. can't keep glasses, mask strap and cable loops on at the same time. fxxx covid.


----------



## XerusKun

RingingEars said:


> The more time I spend with my AS16 pro's the more I'm liking them, or at least appreciating them for the good qualities they have. I was on the fence with these at first, but I think it was because I've never owned and all BA with that many drivers and it was little overwhelming. The clarity on these things are on a whole different level.


The benefits of good tuning. 🙂


----------



## jananan78

jananan78 said:


> trying with kz gold silver copper mixed cable that i got earlier, surely adds to the warmth of the sound signature. swapped out the original dtarline tips to cp100s and the sub bass presence is increased without mudding mids. the shell is indeed a tad larger than zex pro shell, sticks out awkwardly with shallow insertion. can't keep glasses, mask strap and cable loops on at the same time. fxxx covid.


with direct sources such as phone or tablet output the sound signature is more forward and warm but with any amp/dacs the sound seems more distant and dark. i guess this is why the impedance adapter is needed. without the impedance adapter i suggest to try it directly off a phone, it shines. don't even hear the peak at midrange that is supposed to be fixed by the impedance adapter.


----------



## brsdrgn

In case anyone wants to buy CCA's new IEM with planar driver, there's a good discount on AE. KZ Earphones Franchised Store gives 20$ discount and you can also apply the code '8AUG6' to the get an extra 6$ discount which makes the price down to 52$ VAT included.


----------



## 4ceratops

brsdrgn said:


> In case anyone wants to buy CCA's new IEM with planar driver, there's a good discount on AE. KZ Earphones Franchised Store gives 20$ discount and you can also apply the code '8AUG6' to the get an extra 6$ discount which makes the price down to 52$ VAT included.


At this price, I just couldn't resist. Intuition (or rather the unusually low price even for a budget planar) whispers to me that it will probably be money wasted...


----------



## Eiko

4ceratops said:


> At this price, I just couldn't resist. Intuition (or rather the unusually low price even for a budget planar) whispers to me that it will probably be money wasted...


For me it's the complete lack of any reviews or even rumours of someone who's listened to it, that is giving me pause. There will be further sales down the road, so I can take it as a test to my willpower to resist FOMO.


----------



## 4ceratops

Eiko said:


> For me it's the complete lack of any reviews or even rumours of someone who's listened to it, that is giving me pause. There will be further sales down the road, so I can take it as a test to my willpower to resist FOMO.


Despite the fact that I have succumbed, it is clear to me that your position is the only correct one 🖖


----------



## RingingEars

Eiko said:


> For me it's the complete lack of any reviews or even rumours of someone who's listened to it, that is giving me pause. There will be further sales down the road, so I can take it as a test to my willpower to resist FOMO.


This might help to push you over the edge...


----------



## brsdrgn

Eiko said:


> For me it's the complete lack of any reviews or even rumours of someone who's listened to it, that is giving me pause. There will be further sales down the road, so I can take it as a test to my willpower to resist FOMO.


The same for me. I didn't buy it. I'll wait for the reviews. We have 11.11 ahead of us. There will be definitely more discounts...


----------



## jananan78

RingingEars said:


> This might help to push you over the edge...


what cable is that? doesn't look like a QDC


----------



## RingingEars

jananan78 said:


> what cable is that? doesn't look like a QDC


It's a standard .78mm 2-pin Tripowin Zonie. I have just about every color they make in different 2.5mm & 3.5mm jack configurations.


----------



## unifutomaki

Eiko said:


> For me it's the complete lack of any reviews or even rumours of someone who's listened to it, that is giving me pause. There will be further sales down the road, so I can take it as a test to my willpower to resist FOMO.


Yep, I’m happily waiting (and listening to my existing gear)


----------



## Cryanheh

Picking up 2 KZ Earphones, what would people say are the best to go for?


----------



## rayliam80

Cryanheh said:


> Picking up 2 KZ Earphones, what would people say are the best to go for?



A lot of people seem to be happy with the AS16 Pro especially with the discounts right now. Personally, I haven't heard them. 

I would also include their sister company, CCA in your search. 

It really depends on what you're looking for. KZ - CCA have kind of wide range of tunings now even though its more of the V-Shaped sound. 

If you're not interesting in modding or using aftermarket tips/cables, I'd rec either the CCA CRA or the CRA+, for overall best bargain that I've heard from KZ/CCA. I have the CRA but I've modded it, haven't heard the CRA+. The stock cable and stock eartips are very good for the sound and don't really need aftermarket stuff to get the best sound out of them unless you're having fit issues or you have a balanced source and you want to take advantage of it (not really necessary though). They're also pretty sensitive and not really source-dependent either, so they sound very good out of a smartphone or a simple Apple USB dongle. 

Others that I really like:

ZS7 - unavailable now
C12 - basshead v-shaped, needs aftermarket tips and cable imo
ZS10 Pro - gritty moderate v-shaped that's great for strings/electric guitar music, needs aftermarket tips and cables imo


----------



## morphon

crabdog said:


> The KZ AS16 might be the best all-BA IEM from KZ yet. It has a warm, balanced sound and nice tight bass. But there's just one thing missing. Check out my full review to learn more.




This matches my experience with them exactly.

One of the things I really enjoy about recorded music is being able to hear all those treble microdetails, so the AS16 Pro isn't going to be my daily driver, but they sound really good, especially for the money.

KZ is really on a roll lately (DQ6, CRA+, CRN were all fantastic). I almost want to blind purchase their planar just based on the string of hits.


----------



## r31ya (Aug 24, 2022)

rayliam80 said:


> A lot of people seem to be happy with the AS16 Pro especially with the discounts right now. Personally, I haven't heard them.
> 
> I would also include their sister company, CCA in your search.
> 
> ...


there is this on CCA front,
1. CCA CA16 or CCA CKX (multi hybrids for details, one have warm vocals, the other have good details and good bass)
2. CCA Lyra, (a kz/cca house harman sets, to some EDA balanced refinement. competitor of the best within sub $20)
3. KZ AS16Pro (the latest multi BA iem pretty decent iem on its own, will be abit better with impedance adaptor)

CA16 and CKX comes highly recommended but due to its pricing, it face and some deemed it to felll short (something about its tone apparently) against Mid-fi mainstays budget offering.
There is also upcoming PLA13 (planar)


----------



## crabdog

morphon said:


> This matches my experience with them exactly.
> 
> One of the things I really enjoy about recorded music is being able to hear all those treble microdetails, so the AS16 Pro isn't going to be my daily driver, but they sound really good, especially for the money.
> 
> KZ is really on a roll lately (DQ6, CRA+, CRN were all fantastic). I almost want to blind purchase their planar just based on the string of hits.


Yeah, I totally agree. They're light on details but KZ nailed the tonality on these. Even the new VSX TWS sounds surprisingly good too (review coming soon).


----------



## jananan78

RingingEars said:


> It's a standard .78mm 2-pin Tripowin Zonie. I have just about every color they make in different 2.5mm & 3.5mm jack configurations.


ah yes zonie. i did consider buying them earlier but tripowin has several other models as well so i am undecided.


----------



## jananan78

with the kz gold silver copper mixed cable.


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> ah yes zonie. i did consider buying them earlier but tripowin has several other models as well so i am undecided.


They handle very well, similar to the NiceHCK 16 core cables.


----------



## maxifuny

morphon said:


> AS16 Pro isn't going to be my daily driver, but they sound really good, especially for the money



a lot of lows, bright and crooked mids that clog the entire range up to highs. Why spend money on this at all? There are cheaper CCA with the same crooked sound. I do not understand such statements at all. Normal for this money. Or maybe not worth it at all? 50 bucks is 50 bucks

I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things (с)


----------



## dharmasteve

maxifuny said:


> a lot of lows, bright and crooked mids that clog the entire range up to highs. Why spend money on this at all? There are cheaper CCA with the same crooked sound. I do not understand such statements at all. Normal for this money. Or maybe not worth it at all? 50 bucks is 50 bucks
> 
> I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things (с)


Have you got the KZ AS 16 Pro?


----------



## RingingEars

jananan78 said:


> with the kz gold silver copper mixed cable.


That's a really nice looking combo.


----------



## maxifuny

dharmasteve said:


> Have you got the KZ AS 16 Pro?


Yeapp...


----------



## jananan78

RingingEars said:


> That's a really nice looking combo.


it looks nice but the braiding is a bit losse at some places and it does tangle easily. the 18ohm impedance adapter subdues the entire range of FR but then i am not driving it with a high impedance source such as a powered desktop amp. i will continue using it without the adapter for now or maybe i will try a 30ohm adapter next and let the drawer use the 18ohm.


----------



## RingingEars

jananan78 said:


> it looks nice but the braiding is a bit losse at some places and it does tangle easily. the 18ohm impedance adapter subdues the entire range of FR but then i am not driving it with a high impedance source such as a powered desktop amp. i will continue using it without the adapter for now or maybe i will try a 30ohm adapter next and let the drawer use the 18ohm.


Keep us posted


----------



## jananan78

maxifuny said:


> a lot of lows, bright and crooked mids that clog the entire range up to highs. Why spend money on this at all? There are cheaper CCA with the same crooked sound. I do not understand such statements at all. Normal for this money. Or maybe not worth it at all? 50 bucks is 50 bucks
> 
> I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things (с)


my opinion is the tonality is spot on across the frequency range. none of the timbre issues like the zex pro. instrument separation is very good as it should be, soundstage is average not the strength of this pair. sub bass is district and sounds nice minus the mid bass because it's not a DD. no sibilance or harshness whatsoever on any notes. I'm sorry your experience is not the same.


----------



## morphon

jananan78 said:


> my opinion is the tonality is spot on across the frequency range. none of the timbre issues like the zex pro. instrument separation is very good as it should be, soundstage is average not the strength of this pair. sub bass is district and sounds nice minus the mid bass because it's not a DD. no sibilance or harshness whatsoever on any notes. I'm sorry your experience is not the same.


I listened to it for a good long while last night. My preference is for bright/airy/analytical sets, but for a warm IEM - I think it does really well. Probably my favorite of the warmer sets I own.


----------



## jananan78

morphon said:


> I listened to it for a good long while last night. My preference is for bright/airy/analytical sets, but for a warm IEM - I think it does really well. Probably my favorite of the warmer sets I own.


yes for an all BA set it doesn't do analytical but rather balanced fun sounding without any frequency muddling the other, ample sub bass, bass, mid and treble. i tried it with moondrop spring tips while tip rolling it does increase the airiness a bit. one thing i noticed it sounds pretty much the same with AKM / ESS / Connexant as in it doesn't produce that house signature sound from each different DAc as DD or Hybrids do. this all BA seems to have a signature of it's own. perhaps it is due to it's easy driveability...


----------



## PhonoPhi

jananan78 said:


> my opinion is the tonality is spot on across the frequency range. none of the timbre issues like the zex pro. instrument separation is very good as it should be, soundstage is average not the strength of this pair. sub bass is district and sounds nice minus the mid bass because it's not a DD. no sibilance or harshness whatsoever on any notes. I'm sorry your experience is not the same.


Try 18-30 Ohm adapters, it will diminish the bass, the warmth and bring more energy to a capable quad of mid-high BAs toward your tastes.

I like AS16 pro "as is", the resolution is there, it can be masked by the warmth of the bass in some recordings.

Those of you, who are in some communication with KZ, can you please try to ask whether AST was tuned with "30 Ohm dialed" for the source impedance.

Using 30-75 Ohm impedance transformed AST sound amazingly along the same direction as AS16 pro - the rampant bass is more contained, and treble comes to life.


----------



## MacAttack7

Does the AS16 Pro fit your ears well?
Maybe my ears are just too small, but the shell doesn't even touch my ears.
The nozzle is the only thing holding the IEM in place, while the shell just kind of hangs in the air.
They seem to stay put well enough when sitting still as there is a bit of suction, but I wish they fit me better.

(By the way, my left earpiece went way down in volume. Volume was almost completely gone, then came back some a few hours later, but days later it's still extremely low compared to the right side. I think they are sending me a new left side earphone. I had to make a video blasting my earphones at full volume, so they could hear the problem for themselves. Hopefully that didn't damage the right one.)


----------



## RingingEars

MacAttack7 said:


> Does the AS16 Pro fit your ears well?
> Maybe my ears are just too small, but the shell doesn't even touch my ears.
> The nozzle is the only thing holding the IEM in place, while the shell just kind of hangs in the air.
> They seem to stay put well enough when sitting still as there is a bit of suction, but I wish they fit me better.
> ...


They are a pretty finicky fit...


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

bhazard said:


> I started this thread back in 2014. I was very new in my quest for IEMs out of China (Aliexpress, Taobao). I was finding what appeared to be great tech and deals mostly unknown outside of China.
> 
> KZ became far bigger than any of us ever imagined back in 2014, and here we are enjoying the products almost a decade later.


My garbage can enjoys KZ's newer products. 

I'm still enjoying the Knowledge Zenith iem with the blue cable many years later!


----------



## jananan78

PhonoPhi said:


> Try 18-30 Ohm adapters, it will diminish the bass, the warmth and bring more energy to a capable quad of mid-high BAs toward your tastes.
> 
> I like AS16 pro "as is", the resolution is there, it can be masked by the warmth of the bass in some recordings.
> 
> ...


yeah i seem to enjoy AS16 Pro as is as well. maybe because i mostly listen from usb dongle dac/amp combo that doesn't have high ohm capabilities as well. it cannot drive a 300ohm full sized cans for example. the warmth and sub bass becomes too subdued with the adapter in my case.


----------



## jananan78

RingingEars said:


> They are a pretty finicky fit...


yes proper fit is something left to be desired. maybe a a shallow eartip will help but will affect isolation i guess.


----------



## MacAttack7

jananan78 said:


> yes proper fit is something left to be desired. maybe a a shallow eartip will help but will affect isolation i guess.


I don't know if it's the same with everyone, but since the shell doesn't touch my ear, the only fit issue is whether or not the nozzle and tip you choose sticks in your ear and stays put.


----------



## jananan78 (Aug 26, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> I don't know if it's the same with everyone, but since the shell doesn't touch my ear, the only fit issue is whether or not the nozzle and tip you choose sticks in your ear and stays put.


yeah it's sticking out a bit for me too. really need big and deep ears for this. i tried multiple tips but same thing. maybe need to cut the stem of the tips to ensure deeper insertion.


----------



## Carpet

MacAttack7 said:


> Does the AS16 Pro fit your ears well?
> Maybe my ears are just too small, but the shell doesn't even touch my ears.
> The nozzle is the only thing holding the IEM in place, while the shell just kind of hangs in the air.
> They seem to stay put well enough when sitting still as there is a bit of suction, but I wish they fit me better.
> ...


The ESX also has a long nozzle, deep shell and a plain shell without a wing rather than a semi-custom shape. The AS16 Pro has very similar fit. The semi-custom shape on ZEX Pro and CA16 used to fit me very well and stayed in place much better. The ASF shell didn't fit very well, the plain shells are better than those.


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> The ESX also has a long nozzle, deep shell and a plain shell without a wing rather than a semi-custom shape. The AS16 Pro has very similar fit. The semi-custom shape on ZEX Pro and CA16 used to fit me very well and stayed in place much better. The ASF shell didn't fit very well, the plain shells are better than those.


yes agreed on the zex pro it sits flush inside the ears. this as16 pro shell is just hanging from the nozzle. i think they have no choice due to the number of BAs in here while the zex pro had stacked design and BA in the nozzle. they can't fit 4 x treble BAs in the nozzle i guess lol.


----------



## jananan78

I am beginning to think there is some revised version of as16 pro. switching high impedance and low impedance mode on my dac doesn't make any difference, i tried A-Bing many tracks and it's the same. like there is a resistor already added inside the iem....


----------



## baskingshark

jananan78 said:


> I am beginning to think there is some revised version of as16 pro. switching high impedance and low impedance mode on my dac doesn't make any difference, i tried A-Bing many tracks and it's the same. like there is a resistor already added inside the iem....



Today, KZ says they are releasing a new version of the AS16 Pro with a different impedance: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/posts/2950565688577374/


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> yes agreed on the zex pro it sits flush inside the ears. this as16 pro shell is just hanging from the nozzle. i think they have no choice due to the number of BAs in here while the zex pro had stacked design and BA in the nozzle. they can't fit 4 x treble BAs in the nozzle i guess lol.


All the BA are stacked on the outside of the IEM under the faceplate. They could have contoured the inside of the IEM without increasing it's depth. That would have been away  from the sound tube block.


----------



## KCSweden

Starting to lose some battery time on my Z1 pros and thus im looking to get a new pair. Whats currently the best model KZ offers, mainly for used for working out so BT required.


----------



## jananan78

baskingshark said:


> Today, KZ says they are releasing a new version of the AS16 Pro with a different impedance: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/posts/2950565688577374/


speechless


----------



## Steve Dave

baskingshark said:


> Today, KZ says they are releasing a new version of the AS16 Pro with a different impedance: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/posts/2950565688577374/


I tend not to believe any marketing information and I might be misinterpreting it but the way that reads to me is they are saying the reason for going to the expense of manufacturing a different version is so that a relatively small number of enthusiasts with testing equipment can produce the graphs they expect?


----------



## unifutomaki

Steve Dave said:


> I tend not to believe any marketing information and I might be misinterpreting it but the way that reads to me is they are saying the reason for going to the expense of manufacturing a different version is so that a relatively small number of enthusiasts with testing equipment can produce the graphs they expect?


My takeaway was that users will be able to hear the intended sound signature without needing to put an impedance adapter in the chain. That’s a plus IMO


----------



## Steve Dave

That's what I would have thought would be the reason but the wording of their statement is ....odd.


----------



## Carpet

Steve Dave said:


> That's what I would have thought would be the reason but the wording of their statement is ....odd.


If you've been following KZ for the last 6 months "Sorry, but we screw**d up!", doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary.


----------



## Steve Dave

Carpet said:


> If you've been following KZ for the last 6 months "Sorry, but we screw**d up!", doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary.


Lol, fair enough.


----------



## lushmelody

KZ still troubles itself, but they do the effort at least. Not hyping them like TRN right now, though. The latter recent stuff are all doing pretty well and are way more aesthetically pleasing.

By the way, I'm really interested about a AS16 Pro (fixed) versus TRN ST5 match  budget multi driver fight like old times (but way BETTER tunings now)


----------



## baskingshark

Steve Dave said:


> I tend not to believe any marketing information and I might be misinterpreting it but the way that reads to me is they are saying the reason for going to the expense of manufacturing a different version is so that a relatively small number of enthusiasts with testing equipment can produce the graphs they expect?



Anyway, it is par for the course for KZ to release a "Pro" version of a KZ IEM a few weeks after initial release haha.

Just wait a few more weeks and maybe another Pro version of this IEM will once again be released.


----------



## Carpet

baskingshark said:


> Anyway, it is par for the course for KZ to release a "Pro" version of a KZ IEM a few weeks after initial release haha.
> 
> Just wait a few more weeks and maybe another Pro version of this IEM will once again be released.


Hmmm, will that be the KZ AS16 Pro Pro or Pro2? Maybe Pro Ultra or Pro Max? A different shell? The suspense is killing me!


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

baskingshark said:


> Anyway, it is par for the course for KZ to release a "Pro" version of a KZ IEM a few weeks after initial release haha.
> 
> Just wait a few more weeks and maybe another Pro version of this IEM will once again be released.


AS16 Ultra

You heard it here first

Dammit, @Carpet beat me to it!


----------



## jananan78

oh well i feel my current As16 Pro sounds good enough..  maybe it was already 'fixed' and they didn't come up with the revised box and printing on the shell. i don't have the equipment to test. but i believe it had some fixed impedance because the impedance tuning on the DAC didn't make any difference when A-B ing.


----------



## HAMS

jananan78 said:


> oh well i feel my current As16 Pro sounds good enough..  maybe it was already 'fixed' and they didn't come up with the revised box and printing on the shell. i don't have the equipment to test. but i believe it had some fixed impedance because the impedance tuning on the DAC didn't make any difference when A-B ing.


Should it be quiter when you add impedance?


----------



## crabdog

Here's my review of the KZ VXS. It's a solid product overall and the best sounding TWS from KZ so far IMO. Overall it's pretty nice but there's one thing that really bugs me...


----------



## Carpet

HAMS said:


> Should it be quiter when you add impedance?


Yes, adding impedance makes it harder to drive. Adding in a 30 ohm adapter gives it similar volume to planar at the same settings.


----------



## baskingshark

HAMS said:


> Should it be quiter when you add impedance?





Carpet said:


> Yes, adding impedance makes it harder to drive. Adding in a 30 ohm adapter gives it similar volume to planar at the same settings.



Not only that though, different impedance may skew the frequency response of some multi BA driver low impedance/high sensitivity type IEMs.

Ie the tonality of the IEM changes.

The Campfire Andromeda is a great example: https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/campfire-andromeda.php#gsc.tab=0


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 28, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> Does the AS16 Pro fit your ears well?
> Maybe my ears are just too small, but the shell doesn't even touch my ears.
> The nozzle is the only thing holding the IEM in place, while the shell just kind of hangs in the air.
> They seem to stay put well enough when sitting still as there is a bit of suction, but I wish they fit me better.
> ...


AS16 pro have exactly the same shell as AS16 and many others KZ/CCA IEMs: AS10, AS12, C16, A10, etc.

My first KZ IEM was ZS10 (not pro), just a bit larger than AS10 but surprisingly harder to fit for me. (Never cared for ZS10 sound, way too loose bass for me, but learning to fit it was valuable).  What worked for me was to use larger tips. My ears are fairly large but they totally detest any idea of deep insertion, so large tips (including huge 14-14.5 mm for smaller shells) work well for me.

Returning to AS16 pro, it fits me very well and provides very good isolation (too good to use in the city streets). Perhaps, my ears were trained with happy 6 months with AS10  first and then another six months with C16.

Coming from Fiio F9 pro before AS10, F9 pro by its smaller size fitted well, but did not work well with the nozzle angle and overall, AS10 was a bliss of secure fit  comfort.

AS16 pro  in its "as is"  state (without adapters) reminds me a lot of AS10.

I will surely get the "30 Ohm" one, thank you for the tip/info @baskingshark !
I still could not find it to be available, count on you for the updates.

I could have got my second pair of AS16 pro a bit too early 
Well, you can laugh at me, when I first ordered AS10 on eBay at $45 I was worried about counterfeits. Then,  I could not believe the sound for $45, and ordered another one right away. It is still unpackaged, since the first one took all the abuse and still goes strong (that I did not take for granted for $45).

So my two happiest ChiFi stories so far are  KZ and Tempotec (for the latter I got  through my mini "dongle mania" (20+), and in the end E44 and BHD are my favourite pair, and V1A is a fantastic little transport).


----------



## bhazard

I switched back over from the Salnotes Zero to the AS16 Pro today and enjoy the AS16 Pro much more.

Once you get the bass levels dialed in, adjustments between 4-7kHz make all the difference. Listening from the THX-887 shouldn't really alter the sound, but I haven't really tried them on a mobile device. It's just much easier to use the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro (which are excellent) over anything wired 95% of the time.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

My new remaded KZ AS12 😊👍


----------



## Keputs

KZ ZS10 PRO X is on the radar guys. Check out kz-audio.com


----------



## Atek2019

Keputs said:


> KZ ZS10 PRO X is on the radar guys. Check out kz-audio.com


On Aliexpress :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...00030099471722!sea&curPageLogUid=WjkaIpMn6ML6


----------



## evasb

Based on KZ graph.


----------



## bhazard

Another day, another KZ/CCA release.

To be fair, I loved the KZ ZS10 pro and it was my default recommendation and gift set to family/friends for something cheap that sounds good. Looks like I'll be adding another to the collection. (Weird how it drops off completely after 17kHz, but my ears won't hear it anyway)


----------



## lushmelody

evasb said:


> Based on KZ graph.


No more big peaks, hello Moondrop Iol. Good news for me because I delayed my TRN ST5 purchase 😅 

The graph alone is more my tonal preference compared to TRN, but the DD is what will define which is the better hybrid, I guess. I think its hard to beat the ST5 supposed beryllium, it seems its not a bloated midbass mess. 

TRN also is just a bit more expensive but I mean.... A full alloy construction plus a modular cable. KZ could do way better in accessories at least.


----------



## rayliam80

Is it just me or do all of the KZ all-BA IEMs just don't sound very good with balanced cables?

Granted, I only have one balanced source that I'm basing this off from , the AP80 Pro-X. Yesterday, I received my AS16 Pro, and I just found them to be a bit more congested sounding using a balanced cable with them. Unbalanced, it sounded slightly more dynamic and lively. I found this to be the case with the AS12, ASF and even the Campfire Audio Jupiter (all-BA). Single-dynamic, hybrids and planar IEMs I've tried with balanced cables on the AP80 do sound marginally better.

Any idea why this is in regards to the all-BAs? Anyone else find this to be the case?


----------



## Carpet

rayliam80 said:


> Is it just me or do all of the KZ all-BA IEMs just don't sound very good with balanced cables?
> 
> Granted, I only have one balanced source that I'm basing this off from , the AP80 Pro-X. Yesterday, I received my AS16 Pro, and I just found them to be a bit more congested sounding using a balanced cable with them. Unbalanced, it sounded slightly more dynamic and lively. I found this to be the case with the AS12, ASF and even the Campfire Audio Jupiter (all-BA). Single-dynamic, hybrids and planar IEMs I've tried with balanced cables on the AP80 do sound marginally better.
> 
> Any idea why this is in regards to the all-BAs? Anyone else find this to be the case?



I just leave 3.5mm SE on everything. Most of my sources do have balanced outputs, but not all. I also loan IEMs out to friends and none of them have balanced sources. I think I have two balanced cables somewhere but never got around to using them.


----------



## PhonoPhi

rayliam80 said:


> Is it just me or do all of the KZ all-BA IEMs just don't sound very good with balanced cables?
> 
> Granted, I only have one balanced source that I'm basing this off from , the AP80 Pro-X. Yesterday, I received my AS16 Pro, and I just found them to be a bit more congested sounding using a balanced cable with them. Unbalanced, it sounded slightly more dynamic and lively. I found this to be the case with the AS12, ASF and even the Campfire Audio Jupiter (all-BA). Single-dynamic, hybrids and planar IEMs I've tried with balanced cables on the AP80 do sound marginally better.
> 
> Any idea why this is in regards to the all-BAs? Anyone else find this to be the case?


It may depend on the source, its impedance, etc. AP80 X pro should be a good source.
Different impedance (and different balanced circuitry) can bring different sound that is perceived differently according to individual preferences.

I use only 2.5 mm balanced cables, since it is easy to switch from balanced to non-balanced with a simple $10 adaptor for the best of all worlds. I carry several of these adaptors (DD & TRI) n my different IEM cases.

On a related note, I found modular cables with their long connectors totally inneffective (and more expensive) compared to using simple adaptors - this way you can use all your favourite cables and buy few connectors as you need.

I tried non-balanced with AS16 pro using an Apple dongle and Tempotec E44 and did not perceive much of the difference.
Some of my sources, e.g. Fiio Q1 II (that hooked me in to balanced) and Pioneer 30 R have more powerful and meant to be better sounding balanced outputs.

Having tried more USB DACs and especially Apple $8 one, I stopped to be a "balanced snobist" - ultimately, whichever makes your music sound better is the best choice


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Keputs said:


> KZ ZS10 PRO X is on the radar guys. Check out kz-audio.com


Exciting, but I'm holding out for the ZS10 Pro X Ultra.


----------



## unifutomaki

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Exciting, but I'm holding out for the ZS10 Pro X Ultra.


As for me, I’ve got my eye on the ZS10 Pro X Ultra Max.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

unifutomaki said:


> As for me, I’ve got my eye on the ZS10 Pro X Ultra Max.


Rumor has it it's a DD+8BA+piezo+electrostat with a planar driver. MSRP 24.99 but on sale for $11.11 on singles day.


----------



## Carpet

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Rumor has it it's a DD+8BA+piezo+electrostat with a planar driver. MSRP 24.99 but on sale for $11.11 on singles day.


Careful, with that many drivers it would have to have 24 in the title!


----------



## IEMbiker

Mr.HiAudio said:


> My new remaded KZ AS12 😊👍


What have u change? the RF looks nice.


----------



## r31ya

Published graph of ZS10ProX compared to Shimin Li
it looks pretty nice. 
a bit more dip on 4~5k to control those 4 BA
Let's see how they manage coherence.


----------



## Keputs

unifutomaki said:


> As for me, I’ve got my eye on the ZS10 Pro X Ultra Max.


Anybody holding out for the ZS10 Pro X Ultra Max Premium? 🤣


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> Published graph of ZS10ProX compared to Shimin Li
> it looks pretty nice.
> a bit more dip on 4~5k to control those 4 BA
> Let's see how they manage coherence.



They scooped 5-7khz too much. I called it valley of trap like other too safe IEMs. Splashes, cymbals and those sparkles on lower treble region will be heard too distanced and lack of bites. Missing too much information here.
But based on graph, i think this time KZ put nylon / paper damper on the nozzle. I could be wrong though but high chance looking from graph characteristic.
That will make bloated bass because bad airflow.


----------



## Nimweth

Looks like KZ are trying to divert sales from the ST5. 1 DD + 2 x 50060, 2 x 30095. Similar configuration and a change in tuning.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Nimweth said:


> Looks like KZ are trying to divert sales from the ST5. 1 DD + 2 x 50060, 2 x 30095. Similar configuration and a change in tuning.


TRN seems to recycle older BAs. How many times those 30095 were criticized for various reasons. KZ essentially moved away from 30095, and their recent BAs are great, other than for still somewhat missing mids.
TRN not far ago made BA15/30 or something stuffed with a bunch of 30095 for the BA count...In any case, TRN needs at least a couple of years to convince me of their QC.

As for the ZS10 pro X, I will wait for ZAX/ZSX upgrade, emjoying my bunch of KZ all-BAs.


----------



## 4ceratops

PhonoPhi said:


> TRN seems to recycle older BAs. How many times those 30095 were criticized for various reasons. KZ essentially moved away from 30095, and their recent BAs are great, other than for still somewhat missing mids.
> TRN not far ago made BA15/30 or something stuffed with a bunch of 30095 for the BA count...In any case, TRN needs at least a couple of years to convince me of their QC.
> 
> As for the ZS10 pro X, I will wait for ZAX/ZSX upgrade, emjoying my bunch of KZ all-BAs.


In my opinion, the TRN TA01 MAX are a better tuned basshead IEM than anything from KZ. Tomorrow my KZ AS16 PRO ( also with 18 and 30 Ohm adapters) should arrive and I hope they will correct the bad taste after my mistake called AST.


----------



## RCracer777

Nimweth said:


> Looks like KZ are trying to divert sales from the ST5. 1 DD + 2 x 50060, 2 x 30095. Similar configuration and a change in tuning.


Guess we'll see what it's going to be like, I've got both coming. Ordered the ST5 last week but I had a weak moment today so now the ZS10 Pro X is coming as well.
I used to use the ZS10 Pro as my daily driver for a year so I'm hoping it's going to be a good one.


----------



## Old_Snake

jisc said:


> If anyone is interested. This is the eartips I used to lessen the sharpness of treble of kz zs6. A triple flange from my old earphones, the sharpness has lessen but still sparkling. Didn't know why the eartips did that. The only thing I noticed is the triple flange is longer than stock eartips and it has a small opening.



Do you recall who makes those triple flange tips? Cheers!


----------



## MacAttack7

On my AS16 Pro the left-side volume became extremely low and muffled, very obvious. The sound just about disappeared completely at one point, and then returned some, but still obviously way too low.

Today I used a needle to pull out the mesh screen, and now as far as I can tell the volume is back to normal.
I'm not sure what the issue was. I only used them a handful of times, and I don't have any wax issues that would plug them.

All I can think, is that it has something to do with the glue on the mesh screen. There is glue all around the perimeter with just a small opening in the middle. I wonder if the glue moved as the earphone was used and got warm.

So anyway, how do I put a new & better mesh filter on? I'm not sure what size or material to get, and not too sure how to put it on. Do I need some special glue?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Aug 30, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> In my opinion, the TRN TA01 MAX are a better tuned basshead IEM than anything from KZ. Tomorrow my KZ AS16 PRO ( also with 18 and 30 Ohm adapters) should arrive and I hope they will correct the bad taste after my mistake called AST.


You can be a good critic of AS16 pro then, looking forward to your impressions.
Please do try AST with 30 Ohm and possibly with 48 Ohm - you may like them much more. Though all of these IEMs with all adaptors (I made 100 Ohm balanced to play around) are far from basshead and geared more to classical/acoustic music.


MacAttack7 said:


> On my AS16 Pro the left-side volume became extremely low and muffled, very obvious. The sound just about disappeared completely at one point, and then returned some, but still obviously way too low.
> 
> Today I used a needle to pull out the mesh screen, and now as far as I can tell the volume is back to normal.
> I'm not sure what the issue was. I only used them a handful of times, and I don't have any wax issues that would plug them.
> ...


Sorry to hear about it!
The previous mesh used in AS16, AS12, etc was more open and better then.

First, if it helps I run my two ASXs without any mesh (totally freeing the sound), it works OK given ear wax is not much of a problem.

Then AE sells IEM mesh already with the glue and at very reasonable prices: here is the link.

You need 5.0 mm for AS16 pro, the opening is a tiny bit larger - 5.1 mm or so.


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> You can be a good critic of AS16 pro, looking forward to your impressions.
> Please try AST with 30 Ohm and possibly with 48 Ohm - you may like it much more. Though all of these IEM are far from basshead and geared more to classical/acoustic music.
> 
> Sorry to hear about it!
> ...


Thank you. Didn't realize the mesh comes with glue. I don't notice anything bad about the sound now that I removed the mesh on the left side, but I don't think I have the best critical listening since I usually like earphones that receive horrible reviews. 

I can't tell...is the mesh screen on the AS16 Pro metal or something else. I need a magnifying glass as it's hard to tell.


----------



## Carpet (Aug 30, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> On my AS16 Pro the left-side volume became extremely low and muffled, very obvious. The sound just about disappeared completely at one point, and then returned some, but still obviously way too low.
> 
> Today I used a needle to pull out the mesh screen, and now as far as I can tell the volume is back to normal.
> I'm not sure what the issue was. I only used them a handful of times, and I don't have any wax issues that would plug them.
> ...


Use micropore paper tape. Normally you'd poke a small hole with a pin, or cut a small wedge near the edge with a fine pointed blade. You may not need to with an all BA set. The AS16 Pro doesn't have a BA in the nozzle, so it's  pretty safe to do. The tape already has adhesive and comes off again easily. Trim it after it's stuck down, you can press it down around the sides of the nozzle if it isn't trimmed exactly to fit.

If that works, you can save yourself the annoyance of waiting for an order from AE. It may also pay to do both sides as you won't get a perfect match with the existing filter.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

IEMbiker said:


> What have u change?


1) contacts (+) and (-) set as it should (in stock was (+ wire ) -> (- board ),  (- wire )-> (+ board ) );
2) added resistors: 10 ohms for mids BA, 47 ohms for highs BA;
3) put capacitors 2.2uf in parallel for mid BA

Now sounds more better than stock: deeper bass, puncher mids, warmer highs. 
No sibilants, no BIG-BASS, very good sound for metal/industrial/pop

i put my graph into KZ discord but no feedback from KZ haha


----------



## MacAttack7

Carpet said:


> Use micropore paper tape. Normally you'd poke a small hole with a pin, or cut a small wedge near the edge with a fine pointed blade. You may not need to with an all BA set. The AS16 Pro doesn't have a BA in the nozzle, so it's  pretty safe to do. The tape already has adhesive and comes off again easily. Trim it after it's stuck down, you can press it down around the sides of the nozzle if it isn't trimmed exactly to fit.
> 
> If that works, you can save yourself the annoyance of waiting for an order from AE. It may also pay to do both sides as you won't get a perfect match with the existing filter.


Yeah I'd definitely do both sides. Right now the side without the mesh is louder/not-as-mellow as the side with the original mesh.
Since the original mesh has such tight spacing does it contribute significantly towards the tuning? It seems like it must due to how tight it is.


----------



## jananan78

HAMS said:


> Should it be quiter when you add impedance?


yes correct The impedance adapter works as it lowers volume by half but when i crank up the volume to about same levels the sound signature is very subdued, even the mids and treble. however the impedance switch on the dac that switches between high a low has no effect whatsoever. haven't tried the impedance switch with the adapter though


----------



## jananan78

MacAttack7 said:


> Yeah I'd definitely do both sides. Right now the side without the mesh is louder/not-as-mellow as the side with the original mesh.
> Since the original mesh has such tight spacing does it contribute significantly towards the tuning? It seems like it must due to how tight it is.


instead of removing the original mesh i wonder if wash with alcohol and cotton bud might it remove some of the excess glue. or another idea is to use a fine needle to poke and enlarge the holes on the original mesh without removing it.


----------



## nraymond

jananan78 said:


> instead of removing the original mesh i wonder if wash with alcohol and cotton bud might it remove some of the excess glue. or another idea is to use a fine needle to poke and enlarge the holes on the original mesh without removing it.


Isopropyl alcohol does act as a mild solvent (i.e. good for removing sticker residue for instance) and will evaporate pretty quickly (especially the higher concentrations >90%).


----------



## MacAttack7

jananan78 said:


> instead of removing the original mesh i wonder if wash with alcohol and cotton bud might it remove some of the excess glue. or another idea is to use a fine needle to poke and enlarge the holes on the original mesh without removing it.


Good idea...too bad I already removed and mangled it. I still wonder why the volume almost disappeared completely and then came back some.
Hopefully I didn't harm the drivers by playing them full-blast in order to make a couple of videos to show the seller the issue. 
If it really was the mesh, then I still have never had a driver go bad in any of my earphones, which is pretty impressive I think.


----------



## XerusKun

Really enjoyed my time with AS16 Pro, such a fine IEM. Plays my bossa nova tracks like a boss.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/knowledge-zenith-kz-as16-pro.25953/reviews#review-29108


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Anyone got reports on the just released zs10 Pro x?


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> Anyone got reports on the just released zs10 Pro x?


A bit early yet, it's up for order about a day ago. All we have is KZ supplied FR graph, promo materials and price. No reviews yet.

The only video is basically just reading info off the KZ website. The armatures aren't new they have been used before on KZ ZAS, KZ ZAX and CCA CA16.


----------



## r31ya (Aug 31, 2022)

Its the Black BA that they use occasionally.
but yeah, new BA compared to the old ZS10Pro

Not sure whether its the tuning or the BAs themselves but far general concensus on the black BA are pretty detailed, have a better tone, but a bit rolled off

my worry on ZS10Pro is the Bass shelf, if its like ESX, its a bit much for me as it start to bother other sounds in the song.


----------



## Aparker2005

I'm almost thinking of going way back to when I first started this kz journey and grabbing another pair of ES3. Those were some of the best fitting, most comfortable, and great sounding KZs I've tried


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> Its the Black BA that they use occasionally.
> but yeah, new BA compared to the old ZS10Pro
> 
> Not sure whether its the tuning or the BAs themselves but far general concensus on the black BA are pretty detailed, have a better tone, but a bit rolled off
> ...



They seem to be a continuation of the KZ ZS10 Pro in only 2 ways

1: same faceplate
2: same name

So it's a new IEM trying to cash in on the popularity of an older model. Tuning is similar but looks to be less aggressive treble

They have no BA in the nozzle. They have 2 dual (identical) extended mid range BAs around the DD (similar to CCA CA16 configuration but less drivers). ZS10Pro had 2 mid range and 2 high frequency BAs (funnily enough the same ones as the new TRN ST5 uses).


----------



## r31ya (Sep 1, 2022)

Carpet said:


> They seem to be a continuation of the KZ ZS10 Pro in only 2 ways
> 
> 1: same faceplate
> 2: same name
> ...


Its abit unique

ST5 boast a bit more upscale Berry DD but paired it with old Bellsing BA
ZS10Prox boast a new BA (black BAs) and seems to be in house DD

ST5 at $59 give full alloy shell and upscale cable with replacable jack
ZS10Prox at $39, some will arrive with unknown new cable but the usual resin+faceplate and kz barebone box
---

Next to ST5, TRN have TA1Max with 1 Berry Dd and 2 knowles BA with similar price.

Its the ol 5 driver war, all we missing is cca c10prox


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> Next to ST5, TRN have TA1Max with 1 Berry Dd and 2 knowles BA with similar price.
> 
> Its the ol 5 driver war, all we missing is cca c10prox


Very equivalent to TA1 Max since it's 4 identical drivers in the KZ, rather than several types covering different frequencies. If it's KZ vs TRN whose labeling scheme do we use? Is it a 5 or 10 driver war? I'd give the CCA PLA13 a nod if we want to call it "V" wars.


----------



## jananan78

MacAttack7 said:


> Good idea...too bad I already removed and mangled it. I still wonder why the volume almost disappeared completely and then came back some.
> Hopefully I didn't harm the drivers by playing them full-blast in order to make a couple of videos to show the seller the issue.
> If it really was the mesh, then I still have never had a driver go bad in any of my earphones, which is pretty impressive I think.


yeah once you remove it becomes mangled and hard to put back. I did that on one of my kz and another cca  end up sounding open and detailed but super harsh and brittle. had no time to replace the meshing on it with other materials. but i don't think mesh wifi cause the volume to go significantly down especially if it worked fine before, i am thinking bad soldering on the cable or the 0.75mm QDC.


----------



## jananan78

r31ya said:


> Its abit unique
> 
> ST5 boast a bit more upscale Berry DD but paired it with old Bellsing BA
> ZS10Prox boast a new BA (black BAs) and seems to be in house DD
> ...


1 berry and 2 BA is similar to my FIIO FH3, it does sound good especially the deep and quick subbass and unclouded mids and treble.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> Very equivalent to TA1 Max since it's 4 identical drivers in the KZ, rather than several types covering different frequencies. If it's KZ vs TRN whose labeling scheme do we use? Is it a 5 or 10 driver war? I'd give the CCA PLA13 a nod if we want to call it "V" wars.


4 identical BA, KZ used this setup for AST mid before. If i recalled it right


----------



## RCracer777

I've pulled the good ol' ZS10 Pro out of storage to give them a listen while waiting for the ZS10 Pro X. They are better than I remember them being. Not that they're amazing or anything but still good enough to take with me and not get annoyed at the sound quality or fit. 

The bass is still the same punchy but texture-less sound with little to no details. On Playing God by Polyphia I can't distinguish between the E string of the Bass and the kick drum most of the time and Polyphia has great mastering on their songs. But at least it's not a one note bass, probably a three note bass . As for the treble I have no problems with the quantity but the quality is lacking a bit here as well.

The bass should improve as it gets the "X" type DD as introduced by it's successor the ZSX and used in my favorite KZ hybrid the ZAX. Which is one of their more capable drivers and a big improvement over the original DD but it does have less punch to it. And for those that haven't figured it out yet, the "X" in ZS10 Pro X comes from this driver, just like the "X" in ZSX, ZAX and ZSN Pro X.



Carpet said:


> They seem to be a continuation of the KZ ZS10 Pro in only 2 ways
> 
> 1: same faceplate
> 2: same name
> ...


I don't see it as cashing in on the succes of the ZS10 Pro with a new IEM as the driver count and the shell are the same, but the faceplate, though similar in style, is actually different. It also takes the same spot in the KZ lineup. Using different drivers with a previous model name is nothing new, it's very common for a improved or successor model to use different drivers and using a evolution of the tuning is par for the course with design iterations.
A lot of other brands do the same thing and there it's fine apparently as nobody complains about it but KZ can't do the same with their most popular model? 
Hell, some IEM's use different drivers with the name, but this can be due to the original driver going out of production and being replaced with a near identical one as happend with the Tanchjim Oxygen.

I'd actually be more mad if it used the exact same drivers as the ZS 10 Pro. That said replacing the BA's with their "s" type counterparts of the same number would probably have been better than using a completely different array. 
I'm waiting for a KZ ZAX Pro with this exact improvement. Same body shape, semi openback design and "X" type DD, but with the "S" type versions of the BA's and a slightly more refined tuning without sacrificing the treble. I like my treble 'mkay.


While I'm here I'm going to correct some minor things.


Carpet said:


> The armatures aren't new they have been used before on KZ ZAS, KZ ZAX and CCA CA16.


Out of those three only the ZAS has the "S" type BA's, both the ZAX and CA16 use the old 50024 non "S". The CA16 Pro does have them though. This I think makes the Z10 Pro X the third hybrid from the KZ family using the "S" type BA's but I might be overlooking one or two.



r31ya said:


> Next to ST5, TRN have TA1Max with 1 Berry Dd and 2 knowles BA with similar price.


The TA1 Max is a 1DD+1BA, the TA 2 is the 1DD+2BA using a CNT DD.
But that TA1 Max is a little monster. I can't wait for the ST5 to arrive which is said to be better.


----------



## freelancr

CCA PLA13 out of the box measurement






In use with the TRN ST5 cable and green Penon tips.




First impressions​tl;dr First of all it think the PLA13 is a well done and well priced planar and I recommend it as a V shaped fun set. I call it the V-shaped king of the current planar lineup.


Bass is plenty but not overdone
good details across all ranges 
good treble extension
power hungry
basically checks all the planar boxes and stamps KZs signature sound on it

The following is more of a critique about planars as a whole.
I'm not of the opinion that these sound like DDs. I mean the PLA13 has a V shaped signature with plenty of bass and treble like many DDs. But what differentiates DDs from Planar drivers and BAs is the amount of air that is moved. Let's call it APL (*A*ir *P*ressure *L*evel). DDs have the highest APL followed by Planars and lastly BAs.
So whenever I listen to planar IEMs (Timeless, S12) I'm impressed by the detail, finesse and speed. But when it comes to the lower frequency range I'm always like, yes this is how bass sounds, but not how bass feels. That's why I like planars for analytical and DDs for a more fun, feels based immersive listening experience.


----------



## Carpet

freelancr said:


> CCA PLA13 out of the box measurement
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think you're right, the impact of moving air, probably adds to our perception of bass in addition to the auditory sensation of the frequency. What people describe as slam or impact is probably more accurate than people realize. Dynamic drivers move more air more than other types, which is also why they rely more on venting.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> 4 identical BA, KZ used this setup for AST mid before. If i recalled it right


Same with a lot of IEMs (eg CCA CRA, Audiosense T800). I think it may be easier sometimes to alter the number of drivers, rather than fine tuning a crossover.


----------



## unifutomaki

I actually like BA bass. Fast, accurate, detailed but doesn’t linger around or affect the mids. But then I’m all about those mids


----------



## DynamicEars

How about unfiltered planar bass? Speed and tightness like BA with little bit air impact like DD? Delicious..
My timeless have bass like that. The over dampened original timeless block the airflow too much, thus bass sound bloated yet lost the air impact, and decay of trebles gone too fast.


----------



## Aparker2005

So say I get another ES3, does anyone know of a cable upgrade for it that is adjustable? Thanks!


----------



## Carpet

Aparker2005 said:


> So say I get another ES3, does anyone know of a cable upgrade for it that is adjustable? Thanks!


Do you mean one with a chin slider?


----------



## Aparker2005

Carpet said:


> Do you mean one with a chin slider?


Yes. I have one for my CCA ca16 but not thinking it fits the es3


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 1, 2022)

unifutomaki said:


> I actually like BA bass. Fast, accurate, detailed but doesn’t linger around or affect the mids. But then I’m all about those mids


BA bass is great.
I have few different BAs, and KZ bass were always at par I feel. KZ treble BAs got close recenty. Just the mids are less, no Knowles 29689 analogues, or proper implementations so far. AST were close in some sense... Perhaps planar mids (similar to TRI I3) but with all other BAs would be some inspiration 

For the BA mid-centric set your Ethymotic would be about perfect, great to see you enjoying them.


----------



## Carpet (Sep 1, 2022)

Aparker2005 said:


> Yes. I have one for my CCA ca16 but not thinking it fits the es3


It has a different connector the CA16 is a KZ type-c (QDC). I think the ES3 is KZ type-b as it's an angled 0.75mm 2 pin. KZ type-a was a strait recessed connector. All are 0.75 2 pin. The good news is that you can usually use 0.78mm 2 pin as well, in theory a 0.75 might be slightly looser if you switch back. Some manufacturers don't make a distinction. If the socket is recessed you need to look for a recessed cable where the pins are on a slightly extended block. The new flat ribbon 2 core type-b from KZ are better than the old cables, but there are much better options for only slightly more.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Carpet said:


> A bit early yet, it's up for order about a day ago. All we have is KZ supplied FR graph, promo materials and price. No reviews yet.
> 
> The only video is basically just reading info off the KZ website. The armatures aren't new they have been used before on KZ ZAS, KZ ZAX and CCA CA16.


I wonder if they will ever run out of letters and have to actually start naming them.  Maybe animals or something.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 1, 2022)

Plumbus the Wise said:


> I wonder if they will ever run out of letters and have to actually start naming them.  Maybe animals or something.


right now, people in kz discord is asking for CCA to continue to use constellation theme naming, like CCA Lyra


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> right now, people in kz discord is asking for CCA to continue to use constellation theme naming, like CCA Lyra



Lyra X, Lyra X Ultra, Lyra Pro X Ultra..


----------



## RingingEars

Just got the shipping confirmation from Aliex for the ZS6 I bought 2 weeks ago... Looking forward to those little gems


----------



## Echalon

DynamicEars said:


> How about unfiltered planar bass? Speed and tightness like BA with little bit air impact like DD? Delicious..
> My timeless have bass like that. The over dampened original timeless block the airflow too much, thus bass sound bloated yet lost the air impact, and decay of trebles gone too fast.


How did you modify your Timeless?


----------



## r31ya

RingingEars said:


> Just got the shipping confirmation from Aliex for the ZS6 I bought 2 weeks ago... Looking forward to those little gems


Well, your ears will definitely rings with ZS6.


----------



## Carpet

RingingEars said:


> Just got the shipping confirmation from Aliex for the ZS6 I bought 2 weeks ago... Looking forward to those little gems





r31ya said:


> Well, your ears will definitely rings with ZS6.



I was more tempted by the KZ ZSA, similar build to the ZS6 but less extreme KZ treble (cheaper too).


----------



## r31ya (Sep 3, 2022)

Carpet said:


> I was more tempted by the KZ ZSA, similar build to the ZS6 but less extreme KZ treble (cheaper too).


among my regret is not taking that cheap second hand ZS7 that pops out in my place.

when i a/b them back then with ZS6, ZS7, and ZS10pro, ZS7 is my favorite in sound.
Can't tolerate ZS6 sibilance, ZS10 is pretty close to ZS7 and have more comfortable shells. but ZS7 airyness is something else.
Tough I somehow ended with TFZ King on that day.


----------



## RingingEars

r31ya said:


> Well, your ears will definitely *bling* with ZS6.


Fixed it.


----------



## lushmelody

r31ya said:


> right now, people in kz discord is asking for CCA to continue to use constellation theme naming, like CCA Lyra


Please. That naming method provides way more personality to each IEM. Way better than just naming it based on the hardware specs. Its a whole new start for them if they let that creative effort happens. I hope more people gave yes to them about that.


----------



## Nimweth

r31ya said:


> among my regret is not taking that cheap second hand ZS7 that pops out in my place.
> 
> when i a/b them back then with ZS6, ZS7, and ZS10pro, ZS7 is my favorite in sound.
> Can't tolerate ZS6 sibilance, ZS10 is pretty close to ZS7 and have more comfortable shells. but ZS7 airyness is something else.
> Tough I somehow ended with TFZ King on that day.


Yes, ZS7 still the best KZ hybrid IMO.


----------



## independent (Sep 5, 2022)

Hi, I got the AS16 pro. First impressions listening on a pretty good quality ESS based dongle.. on the fence. Love the resolution and separation and almost an over ear style of soundstage.. But it's not quite overears but better than I remember from KZ  Not sure if I like the treble energy. First impressions.

I can also see these earpiece covers. Paper? whatever they are they are they are not built for longevity or practicality. Hated that on the ASX and ASF. Poor design, just terrible.

FYI, and these things are uber sensitive. More sensitive than my ASFs, I didn't get the high ohm version in the plain box. Ordered a couple of weeks ago or so from 'derect' store.

I'll have another listen soon with my high impedence DAC soon. 

On another note, hah, looking for the most cheapest KZ or CCA with decent resolution without zingy treble available on Aliexpress. So, cheap but not nasty. Many thanks in advance for replies.


----------



## r31ya

independent said:


> Hi, I got the AS16 pro. First impressions listening on a pretty good quality ESS based dongle.. on the fence. Love the resolution and separation and almost an over ear style of soundstage.. But it's not quite overears but better than I remember from KZ  Not sure if I like the treble energy. First impressions.
> 
> I can also see these earpiece covers. Paper? whatever they are they are they are not built for longevity or practicality. Hated that on the ASX and ASF. Poor design, just terrible.
> 
> ...


For resolution, KZ lately have little hybrids or multi drivers as they bunkered down with loads of 1DD as they try to re-tune their house sound.

The latest KZ that might fits your bills is the brand new KZ ZS10PRo-X, $39.
Its 1 DD, 2 x 50060s BA, 2 x 30019s BA (5 in total)
tough, its brand new, so no hands on info

The recent KZ while some of them are nice, like KZ EDA-Balanced or CCA Lyra, they are not quite resolution powerhouse


----------



## independent (Sep 5, 2022)

r31ya said:


> For resolution, KZ lately have little hybrids or multi drivers as they bunkered down with loads of 1DD as they try to re-tune their house sound.
> 
> The latest KZ that might fits your bills is the brand new KZ ZS10PRo-X, $39.
> Its 1 DD, 2 x 50060s BA, 2 x 30019s BA (5 in total)
> ...


Thanks for that. I'm a bit out of the loop. CCA Lyra look a few $$ cheaper than the EDA balanced. NZ$27 +15%  Will definitely have a look. Thank you!

EDIT: bought the three pairs of EDA. A few dollars more expensive than a single pair of EDA.


----------



## Carpet

independent said:


> Hi, I got the AS16 pro. First impressions listening on a pretty good quality ESS based dongle.. on the fence. Love the resolution and separation and almost an over ear style of soundstage.. But it's not quite overears but better than I remember from KZ  Not sure if I like the treble energy. First impressions.
> 
> I can also see these earpiece covers. Paper? whatever they are they are they are not built for longevity or practicality. Hated that on the ASX and ASF. Poor design, just terrible.
> 
> ...


When you say you don't like the treble energy of the AS16 Pro, do you want more or less?


----------



## 4ceratops

Have a nice day everyone. I find the AS16 Pro a great progression in tuning a full BA configuration after (for me unsatisfactory) ASTs. I use them with a wide bore Spiral dot or BGVP W-01, OCC cable and use the MSEB to add some air.


----------



## 4ceratops

...and I forgot to mention that I like the sound better without impedance adapters (I tried 18 and 30 Ohm), but I prefer a simple output. Over balanced, I find the mids a bit screamy and the overall sound less clear.


----------



## Aparker2005

Needing new tips for my CCA CA16, CRA, and DQ6. Not feeling foam this time. Will these kbear silicone tips fit all 3? 

6 PCS/3 Pairs Earbud Tips **** KBEAR 08 Replacement Silicone Ear Buds Tips Earbuds Rubber Tips for 3.5mm -5.5mm Inner Nozzle in Ear Earphones Earbuds (6PCS/3 Pair/3 Color/3 Size,S/M/L) https://a.co/d/8f4gju8


----------



## independent

Carpet said:


> When you say you don't like the treble energy of the AS16 Pro, do you want more or less?


First impressions, but a touch less. Coming from ASF and before that ASX. I found the ZS7 tonality perfect but love the detail in BA bass.


----------



## Carpet

independent said:


> First impressions, but a touch less. Coming from ASF and before that ASX. I found the ZS7 tonality perfect but love the detail in BA bass.



The KZ ESX is warmer with slightly rolled off treble. CCA CRA+ is also supposed to be more restrained on top than the original CRA, but I haven't heard it.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> The KZ ESX is warmer with slightly rolled off treble. CCA CRA+ is also supposed to be more restrained on top than the original CRA, but I haven't heard it.


CRA+ is a bit of an Oddity, some people disappointed that its not CRA "successor" as the tuning fix went a bit far it become something fair bit different iem.
that being said, not few (who didn't expect it to be CRA successor) love CRA+ and considered it one of the budget series best. Some considering better than Mid-fi Companies budget offerings

The price for CRA+ went down a bit in my country, i'm still wondering whether i should take, Salnotes Zero, CCA Lyra, or CCA CRA+ for my next iem.


----------



## kappazeta78

r31ya said:


> The price for CRA+ went down a bit in my country, i'm still wondering whether i should take, Salnotes Zero, CCA Lyra, or CCA CRA+ for my next iem.


I would add to this list also the KZ EDA balanced


----------



## r31ya (Sep 6, 2022)

kappazeta78 said:


> I would add to this list also the KZ EDA balanced


Already have Eda Balanced and ESX.
I gave out the bass and high-res to coworker.

Eda balance is a wonder for the price and i heard Lyra is updated Eda Balanced so thats why i aim for it.


----------



## independent (Sep 6, 2022)

From what I can tell the as16pro is quite amazing. my sample has sparkly highs and restrained but deep bass (coming from a bass music lover). Honestly I can't fault it (first impressions notwithstanding). My sample seeming opposite to my ASF on my 100ohm ESS based DAC (D10). It's bass is more subdued and the highs are more subdued.

I do however like the openness of the AS16pro and love the detail throughout the range. Personally, the fit is excellent.

It took me quite a bit to buy this. It was more than I was willing to spend on an IEM from KZ. I spent a lot of money on the ASX and had QC problems with the connector from when I bought it. I got no money back from Aliexpress even when I provided a video. Also the ports have a terrible design in the AS[F-X] and this one included! The AS12 port design is infinitely better for hygiene IMO. I guess most reviewers have IEMs on a shelf or in little compartments and not in their ears.


----------



## 4ceratops (Sep 6, 2022)

Yesterday (after a short 10 days since ordering) the CCA PLA13 arrived. My first impressions are quite mixed. The cause is the bass. These are not simple bass headphones, these are bass monsters with absolute bass dominance deep into the sub-bass level. The bass is pronouncedly STRONG physically present, which in the case of planars of not very large size will certainly catch many by surprise. I don't consider the mids to be heavily bloodied by bass, they are relatively clean, but they are obviously in the background, as is usually the case with V tuning (L tuning is relatively easy to achieve with appropriately chosen tips). The midrange suppression stands out in direct comparison with the vocal-tuned KZ AS16 PROs.

Beware, PLA13 are quite demanding on the power of the amp, better forget about using it with a mobile or a weaker dongle right away (balanced output + high gain are welcome).

If for some reason you cling to KZ/CCA, I consider the AS16 PRO in the same price range a clearly better and more versatile choice.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

4ceratops said:


> Yesterday (after a short 10 days since ordering) the CCA PLA13 arrived. My first impressions are quite mixed. The cause is the bass. These are not simple bass headphones, these are bass monsters with absolute bass dominance deep into the sub-bass level. The bass is pronouncedly STRONG physically present, which in the case of planars of not very large size will certainly catch many by surprise. I don't consider the mids to be heavily bloodied by bass, they are relatively clean, but they are obviously in the background, as is usually the case with V tuning (L tuning is relatively easy to achieve with appropriately chosen tips). The midrange suppression stands out in direct comparison with the vocal-tuned KZ AS16 PROs.
> 
> Beware, PLA13 are quite demanding on the power of the amp, better forget about using it with a mobile or a weaker dongle right away (balanced output + high gain are welcome).
> 
> If for some reason you cling to KZ/CCA, I consider the AS16 PRO in the same price range a clearly better and more versatile choice.



If you have tried any of the other planars such as p1max, s12, timeless, dioko....how does the CCA compare aside from the more boosted bass?  Does it keep up detail wise with any (I understand with elevated bass that can negatively effect imaging and details however).  Curious if this competes with the big boys.


----------



## 4ceratops

Plumbus the Wise said:


> If you have tried any of the other planars such as p1max, s12, timeless, dioko....how does the CCA compare aside from the more boosted bass?  Does it keep up detail wise with any (I understand with elevated bass that can negatively effect imaging and details however).  Curious if this competes with the big boys.


I'm sorry, but I don't serve in this. I don't own any other planar IEMs yet.


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> If you have tried any of the other planars such as p1max, s12, timeless, dioko....how does the CCA compare aside from the more boosted bass?  Does it keep up detail wise with any (I understand with elevated bass that can negatively effect imaging and details however).  Curious if this competes with the big boys.


I have the TinHifi P1Max and the TRI I3Pro (which is a planar tribrid)

In the CCA PLA13 the bass is prominent, it does have a sub-bass focus so does not overpower music with little sub-bass presence. The mid bass is more moderately lifted and gives a warm tone, not enough to muddy the mids. The mids are recessed, this is a V shaped tuning. The treble is well extended, but not peaky and certainly less elevated than the bass. Brighter, colder or more treble based tunings will usually offer better details, stage and imaging. That often comes at the cost of sounding thin. The technical details here are not as good as other planars, but that is a very high bar. They are still good compared to most dynamics and don't falloff with complex music. I don't like the plastic nozzle and what appears to be paper filter. 

All in all these are not an ideal set if you want neutral, bright or something analytical. Great for classic rock and probably the only planar for bass-heads. They are also only $65, but the included cable and tips need replacing. The closest competitors to these are Salnotes 7HJz Dioko and Kinera Celeste. Dioko is wildy different tuning and Celeste we have only seen one review of a prototype.

In Comparison.

TRI I3Pro is more mid-bass focused. Warmer, with slower less defined bass. Mids are less recessed and much nicer than PLA13. Treble is either delicate and well presented or too safe (depending on your preferences).

TinHifi P1Max is a slightly warm, neutrally Tuned IEM without aggressive treble. Technically it out performs both of the others. It is slightly less musical than the I3 Pro and less impactful than the PLA13. More balanced and certainly the pick of the three for vocals, classical, jazz and acoustic instruments.

As always YMMV


----------



## Plumbus the Wise (Sep 6, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't serve in this. I don't own any other planar IEMs yet.


Key word being yet 

@Carpet So the same type of crappy filter used on the CRA?  Thats odd for being a 65 dollar iem.


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> Key word being yet
> 
> @Carpet So the same type of crappy filter used on the CRA?  Thats odd for being a 65 dollar iem.


Yep, I was kind of expecting a metal nozzle and grille. You'll notice they didn't give a clear look at that on the product page. Cheapskates!


----------



## evasb

4ceratops said:


> Yesterday (after a short 10 days since ordering) the CCA PLA13 arrived. My first impressions are quite mixed. The cause is the bass. These are not simple bass headphones, these are bass monsters with absolute bass dominance deep into the sub-bass level. The bass is pronouncedly STRONG physically present, which in the case of planars of not very large size will certainly catch many by surprise. I don't consider the mids to be heavily bloodied by bass, they are relatively clean, but they are obviously in the background, as is usually the case with V tuning (L tuning is relatively easy to achieve with appropriately chosen tips). The midrange suppression stands out in direct comparison with the vocal-tuned KZ AS16 PROs.
> 
> Beware, PLA13 are quite demanding on the power of the amp, better forget about using it with a mobile or a weaker dongle right away (balanced output + high gain are welcome).
> 
> If for some reason you cling to KZ/CCA, I consider the AS16 PRO in the same price range a clearly better and more versatile choice.


People say that if you EQ PLA13 to Timeless bass, the thing can compete with dioko.

KZ screwed up this tuning, clearly


----------



## evasb (Sep 6, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Yep, I was kind of expecting a metal nozzle and grille. You'll notice they didn't give a clear look at that on the product page. Cheapskates!


My problem with KZ nowadays is that they use these crappy filters and don't even sell or give replacement filters.

It is ridiculous, even cheap iems like the Chu have replacement filters for sale.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 6, 2022)

evasb said:


> My problem with KZ nowadays is that they use these crappy filters and don't even sell or give replacement filters.
> 
> It is ridiculous, even cheap iems like the Chu have replacement filters for sale.


The current filter is so cheap feeling that i might prefer the jagged wiremesh that kz used to have.

the thin filter got dirty after few month of daily use and i have no idea how to clean it without damaging it.
i try to scrub it carefully with qtip didn't work, it seems the filter already absorb it.



evasb said:


> People say that if you EQ PLA13 to Timeless bass, the thing can compete with dioko.
> 
> KZ screwed up this tuning, clearly


KZ love that V target and seems to try to have that target with whatever driver they currently selling.
From that All BA AST with elevated Bass to Pla13 that they want that bass and thicker notes at cost of... killing what planar driver excels at resolution, transients.

It seems Dioko is on the other way around, it try to shows off what Planar could be by killing what it lacks (bass)


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> I have the TinHifi P1Max and the TRI I3Pro (which is a planar tribrid)
> 
> In the CCA PLA13 the bass is prominent, it does have a sub-bass focus so does not overpower music with little sub-bass presence. The mid bass is more moderately lifted and gives a warm tone, not enough to muddy the mids. The mids are recessed, this is a V shaped tuning. The treble is well extended, but not peaky and certainly less elevated than the bass. Brighter, colder or more treble based tunings will usually offer better details, stage and imaging. That often comes at the cost of sounding thin. The technical details here are not as good as other planars, but that is a very high bar. They are still good compared to most dynamics and don't falloff with complex music. I don't like the plastic nozzle and what appears to be paper filter.
> 
> ...


how does the sub bass compare to a beryllium based dynamic for example?


----------



## jananan78

r31ya said:


> The current filter is so cheap feeling that i might prefer the jagged wiremesh that kz used to have.
> 
> the thin filter got dirty after few month of daily use and i have no idea how to clean it without damaging it.
> i try to scrub it carefully with qtip didn't work, it seems the filter already absorb it.
> ...


how about a qtip with diluted isopropyl alcohol to wet it and then followed by a dry qtip to absorb it, all the while the iem facing nozzle down to prevent the liquid from going in.


----------



## r31ya

jananan78 said:


> how about a qtip with diluted isopropyl alcohol to wet it and then followed by a dry qtip to absorb it, all the while the iem facing nozzle down to prevent the liquid from going in.


Ooh, let me try that.
the it was the esx thin looking apparently nylon nozzle filter.
the old one have metal grate, so i could go to town cleaning it.


----------



## jananan78 (Sep 7, 2022)

r31ya said:


> Ooh, let me try that.
> the it was the esx thin looking apparently nylon nozzle filter.
> the old one have metal grate, so i could go to town cleaning it.


some are metal mesh with a nylon or paper filter inside. the metal grille is very fine that it repels liquid and dirt while not affecting sound. you can also put a very thin layer of cotton wool on it and fixing the eartip on it to prevent further dirt from going into the original mesh but it will change sound signature, slower bass if not mistaken.


----------



## jananan78

most premium iems use this type mesh. i think the structure keeps dirt out well


----------



## r31ya

jananan78 said:


> most premium iems use this type mesh. i think the structure keeps dirt out well


If i remember it right, one point kz use these but now use that nylon only. 

My aria have metal grill outside and the fabric mesh inside. 
I remove the metal grill for more air movement but after awhile the fabric still didn't get stained like kz.


----------



## Carpet

jananan78 said:


> how does the sub bass compare to a beryllium based dynamic for example?


PLA13 has a LOT of sub-bass but it doesn't sound as elevated as the graphs seem to show. So more precise, and it doesn't sound as impactful (less thump). Kind of like BA bass. Beryllium plated dynamic (or any type for that matter), isn't as fast and seems to decay slower. I wonder if that is due to the whole of the membrane in the planar moving at the same time, rather than propagating out from the center. The difference between watching waves rippling out from an impact, versus raising and lowering the entire pond surface simultaneously. Physics isn't my strong suite.


----------



## Carpet

evasb said:


> People say that if you EQ PLA13 to Timeless bass, the thing can compete with dioko.
> 
> KZ screwed up this tuning, clearly


If it weren't for EQ, earlier planars would have been a total writeoff. I'll start playing with EQ on mine then!


----------



## jananan78

Carpet said:


> PLA13 has a LOT of sub-bass but it doesn't sound as elevated as the graphs seem to show. So more precise, and it doesn't sound as impactful (less thump). Kind of like BA bass. Beryllium plated dynamic (or any type for that matter), isn't as fast and seems to decay slower. I wonder if that is due to the whole of the membrane in the planar moving at the same time, rather than propagating out from the center. The difference between watching waves rippling out from an impact, versus raising and lowering the entire pond surface simultaneously. Physics isn't my strong suite.


i think because DD moves faster near the center of the coil and slower near the edges hence the slow bass while planar moves at equal speeds for the entire surface.


----------



## 4ceratops

Carpet said:


> PLA13 has a LOT of sub-bass but it doesn't sound as elevated as the graphs seem to show. So more precise, and it doesn't sound as impactful (less thump). Kind of like BA bass. Beryllium plated dynamic (or any type for that matter), isn't as fast and seems to decay slower. I wonder if that is due to the whole of the membrane in the planar moving at the same time, rather than propagating out from the center. The difference between watching waves rippling out from an impact, versus raising and lowering the entire pond surface simultaneously. Physics isn't my strong suite.


In my opinion, the bass punch in the case of the PLA13 is somewhere between DD and BA in intensity, and the bass velocity closer to BA.


----------



## DynamicEars

4ceratops said:


> In my opinion, the bass punch in the case of the PLA13 is somewhere between DD and BA in intensity, and the bass velocity closer to BA.



This is what im trying to say before.
Planar bass behave like mix of dd and BA, with speed and control like BA, but have more organic timbre (not so dry as traditional BA) and moves the air like DD but the impact is like half of the DD produced.
Be noted, dampers that blocked the air also blocks the air impact, the problem with default Timeless as overdampened.


----------



## Podster

Hello fellow KZ fans, Pods starting to pare down on some things and I'm thinking some of the old school KZ diddler's might be interested in these babies right here as I'm sure it would be fun to play around with these. Maybe $6/$7 (unless I have to go Int'l) for shipping and they are yours just PM me  




They are still functioning fine and I have stuck a fresh pair of foams on them however you'll need an old MICRO USB to charge the amp section but remember they do have an internal bypass and you can run them off external amp.


----------



## Podster

Wokei said:


> Me think your post should be in TTPOD T1E thread ..inresponse to slowpickr post ..this is KZ thread ...you need some shut eye ...lol


LOL, Vince doing too many reviews and not enough sleep. They do tend to start running together sometimes  Going back through this thread KZ has been releasing models as fast as the designers come up with a new model (Always seemed like 3 per month in the beginning I thought for sure someone like Clear or Slater would want these ZN-1's!


----------



## MacAttack7

independent said:


> Also the ports have a terrible design in the AS[F-X] and this one included! The AS12 port design is infinitely better for hygiene IMO. I guess most reviewers have IEMs on a shelf or in little compartments and not in their ears.





Carpet said:


> Yep, I was kind of expecting a metal nozzle and grille. You'll notice they didn't give a clear look at that on the product page. Cheapskates!





evasb said:


> My problem with KZ nowadays is that they use these crappy filters and don't even sell or give replacement filters.
> 
> It is ridiculous, even cheap iems like the Chu have replacement filters for sale.





r31ya said:


> The current filter is so cheap feeling that i might prefer the jagged wiremesh that kz used to have.


I'm confused. What's wrong with the AS16 Pro filter? It's an extremely tight mesh, but I removed mine and it seemed to be metal. 
Also what do you mean that you were 'expecting a metal nozzle and grille'? Aren't they both metal on the AS16 Pro. Mine are both metal.

Also what's wrong with the ports on the ASF & ASX? I'm looking at them, and they look completely normal and good quality.


----------



## Wokei

Podster said:


> Hello fellow KZ fans, Pods starting to pare down on some things and I'm thinking some of the old school KZ diddler's might be interested in these babies right here as I'm sure it would be fun to play around with these. Maybe $6/$7 (unless I have to go Int'l) for shipping and they are yours just PM me
> 
> 
> They are still functioning fine and I have stuck a fresh pair of foams on them however you'll need an old MICRO USB to charge the amp section but remember they do have an internal bypass and you can run them off external amp.



Well ain't that a blast from the past ....


----------



## r31ya

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm confused. What's wrong with the AS16 Pro filter? It's an extremely tight mesh, but I removed mine and it seemed to be metal.
> Also what do you mean that you were 'expecting a metal nozzle and grille'? Aren't they both metal on the AS16 Pro. Mine are both metal.
> 
> Also what's wrong with the ports on the ASF & ASX? I'm looking at them, and they look completely normal and good quality.


Its the esx filter. 
They switch from the old wire mesh to nylon that is more absorbent and stainable.


----------



## MacAttack7

r31ya said:


> Its the esx filter.
> They switch from the old wire mesh to nylon that is more absorbent and stainable.


Yeah, I wouldn't like that. I don't like the extremely tight mesh on the AS16 Pro, but maybe it's fine.
It just seems like it would clog so easily with moisture or dust.


----------



## jananan78

DynamicEars said:


> This is what im trying to say before.
> Planar bass behave like mix of dd and BA, with speed and control like BA, but have more organic timbre (not so dry as traditional BA) and moves the air like DD but the impact is like half of the DD produced.
> Be noted, dampers that blocked the air also blocks the air impact, the problem with default Timeless as overdampened.


i wonder how will planar sound with just a thin porous mesh,


----------



## DynamicEars

jananan78 said:


> i wonder how will planar sound with just a thin porous mesh,



Still block the airflow if you meant by kind of nylon / paper dampers because the porosity still too tight.
This will made the bass section bloated.

The best i can think of is damper made of foam that shaped like tiny cylinder with little holes on center of it, imagine donut shaped medium density foam, but longer in length

2-4khz are tamed by blockage, means anything block the entire nozzle will tame this range, whatever the materials, thicker or tighter materials will tame more

While the material itself is affecting different kind of frequencies.
High density foam (sold as imported sony foam in ali, but the truth they are different from sony foam damper inside many sony IEMs which are not as high in density) tame more higher trebles, think of 8khz above with absorption of decay quite much. The decay is too soon to gone, kill the extension and sound unnatural to me.

The medium density of is the best from my experience as they absorb the decay or unwanted ringing or resonance by just nice to clear sibilance while keeping sound quite natural

Soft density foam acting as blockage only and just made little effect to absorb the unwanted resonance.

The nylon or paper damper more affecting high mids and presence region 2-5khz, while making only little different to upper treble part.

Best solution? Tune the IEM better, just give damper to absorb unwanted resonance with kind of my idea damper, that will let the airflow go through freely, hence we got clear, air feeling bass as opposed to bloated bass because of the blockage.


----------



## independent

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm confused. What's wrong with the AS16 Pro filter? It's an extremely tight mesh, but I removed mine and it seemed to be metal.
> Also what do you mean that you were 'expecting a metal nozzle and grille'? Aren't they both metal on the AS16 Pro. Mine are both metal.
> 
> Also what's wrong with the ports on the ASF & ASX? I'm looking at them, and they look completely normal and good quality.


I only just got my AS16pro I only had a quick look so if it's a plain drilled stainless face underneath that would be really good.

ASF and ASX have very thin mesh that as soon as you try and clean it it will come away I find mesh not to be a practical solution unless there is a reliable way to remove and soak and replace. The mesh on the ZS7 and others is a bit more robust than the ASF and X. If you cleaned it and put a dab of something sticky it will stay in the nozzle because of the face and the way it holds in there with the lip. I was always worried I will pull out a ZS7 and think, hello? where is the bit of mesh? Did my my dab of glue hold or is it making it's way into my brain 

AS12 has a really simple system (from memory it looked like a drilled stainless face) anyway, one that can be cleaned easily. The reality is if the nozzles aren't able to be reliably cleaned multiple times then they are manufactured as disposible items.


----------



## HAMS

Those metal mesh only function as dirt filter and won't change the sound. A damper like nylon or foam on the other hand are used to tune the treble.


----------



## DynamicEars

HAMS said:


> Those metal mesh only function as dirt filter and won't change the sound. A damper like nylon or foam on the other hand are used to tune the treble.



Yes metal mesh only for protection from dust and earwax, they do change the sound but just little bit to the high mids area because of blockage percentage, but differences are subtle, some may dont even notice, if graphed, they just appear as similar line, maybe 1db maximum changes


----------



## r31ya (Sep 8, 2022)

HAMS said:


> Those metal mesh only function as dirt filter and won't change the sound. A damper like nylon or foam on the other hand are used to tune the treble.


yeah, i can see in my Aria. it have the tuning mesh deep inside the nozzle and metal grate on top of the nozzle.
one for tuning and the other one for dirt/protection


----------



## r31ya

HBB have got ZS10Prox measured


----------



## fastleo63

r31ya said:


> HBB have got ZS10Prox measured


I owned a ZS10 PRO for a couple of month and I liked it very much, but I was forced to return it because I had a driver flex that damaged a DD unit, causing a sensible flaw in bass response on one channel. I hope in a comprehensive PRO X review, because seems rather promising to me...


----------



## jananan78

r31ya said:


> HBB have got ZS10Prox measured


that sub bass though. the way it is going up i wonder where it rolls off.


----------



## lushmelody

I hope Pro X DD is above average  and that 5 driver hybrid be a big competitor to all those single DDs sidegrades lol


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 8, 2022)

With all the recent talks about nozzle mesh and filters, I went to remove the mesh in one of my AS16 pro pairs.
Good fine metal mesh, no paper/filters, and no dampers on BA sound guides, unlike C16 and AS12. The nozzle is from a generic part bin, shaped to accomodate a nozzle BA, which is obviously not there.

The differencei in sound with and without the mesh is fairly limited/subtle. Though listening to solo violin (Nathan Milstein playing J.S. Bach masterpiece, BWV 1002) the difference is there for me with more intimate, less covered violin sound without the mesh. So less covered rather than trying to relate to some frequency ranges.

I run my two pairs of modified ASXs (still my favourite IEM of all) without the mesh for more than a year now, so it works for me, and my AS16 pro will be unrestrainingly mesh-free.

ESX will be next to evaluate their mesh. Though I do like thicker/substantial ESX sound as a good contrast to agile BAs, and may need to order the second pair first.

P. S. I run several comparisons before removing the mesh in the second pair of AS16 pro. The difference is definitely there, with the previous mesh as in AS16 original and ASX, the difference was more subtle.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

lushmelody said:


> I hope Pro X DD is above average  and that 5 driver hybrid be a big competitor to all those single DDs sidegrades lol


But how many of the BA's are actually contributing sound is the question...


----------



## r31ya (Sep 8, 2022)

Plumbus the Wise said:


> But how many of the BA's are actually contributing sound is the question...


They update the page, its not 4 50024 array.
Its 1 DD, 2 x 50024 BA, 2 x 30019s BA. So supposedly Low, Mid, High set-up.
But they are not answering question on the exact CrossOver setup.

Its kinda weird (not on this specific part), but they have KZ official discord and the KZ rep in that discord is highly defensive and combative in their own discord.
Fiio and Moondrop rep in HeadFi is far nicer to talk to. Apparently the previous KZ rep is far nicer than the current highly combative KZ rep.
---


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

@r31ya

Do you know of any information on who makes the BA drivers for them?  Is it in-house or contracted out?  And my concern was more if the actual BA drivers are all outputting any sound that would make any difference in end result FR.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 8, 2022)

Plumbus the Wise said:


> @r31ya
> 
> Do you know of any information on who makes the BA drivers for them?  Is it in-house or contracted out?  And my concern was more if the actual BA drivers are all outputting any sound that would make any difference in end result FR.


From what i know its most of these budget market BA bellsings variant
which at one point we compare how each house KZ/CCA, TRN, Kbear tuned their Bellsing BAs

The new gen is differently colored, "might" not be from bellsings
but If its other known brand like Knowles, they will advertise it.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> From what i know its most of these budget market BA bellsings variant
> which at one point we compare how each house KZ/CCA, TRN, Kbear tuned their Bellsing BAs
> 
> The new gen is differently colored, "might" not be from bellsings
> but If its other known brand like Knowles, they will advertise it.



Advertise is a bit of an understatement, they will sing it from the rafters!


----------



## Carpet

MacAttack7 said:


> I'm confused. What's wrong with the AS16 Pro filter? It's an extremely tight mesh, but I removed mine and it seemed to be metal.
> Also what do you mean that you were 'expecting a metal nozzle and grille'? Aren't they both metal on the AS16 Pro. Mine are both metal.
> 
> Also what's wrong with the ports on the ASF & ASX? I'm looking at them, and they look completely normal and good quality.



My comment was not about the AS16 Pro which I own, and I am quite aware that it has a metal nozzle and grille.

Quotations on this forum do not nest. It is worth following back to preceding posts, if you want to appreciate their context.


----------



## Podster

Wokei said:


> Well ain't that a blast from the past ....


Ooh, what just happened

ZS4's balanced


----------



## Podster

r31ya said:


> They update the page, its not 4 50024 array.
> Its 1 DD, 2 x 50024 BA, 2 x 30019s BA. So supposedly Low, Mid, High set-up.
> But they are not answering question on the exact CrossOver setup.
> 
> ...


I do love that particular Face Plate


----------



## lushmelody (Sep 9, 2022)

r31ya said:


> HBB have got ZS10Prox measured





Podster said:


> I do love that particular Face Plate


That brushed metal is beautiful indeed. By HBB impressions, KZ offers the better tuning for long listening sessions. Just confirming ST5s 8k might be too peaky and fatiguing. He also confirmed ZS10 Pro x bass is nice.

I personally like the black BAs tonality and by hardware and tuning, it might be an overall better hybrid than TRNs. Not same build and accessories, unfortunately. But considering only the sound, KZ wins this time I guess. Its easier to decide between those two now


----------



## evasb

First KZ that it is a real refinement instead of being an entire new IEM that utilizes an old name to profit from it?


----------



## Podster

lushmelody said:


> That brushed metal is beautiful indeed. By HBB impressions, KZ offers the better tuning for long listening sessions. Just confirming ST5s 8k might be too peaky and fatiguing. He also confirmed ZS10 Pro x bass is nice.
> 
> I personally like the black BAs tonality and by hardware and tuning, it might be an overall better hybrid than TRNs. Not same build and accessories, unfortunately. But considering only the sound, KZ wins this time I guess. Its easier to decide between those two now


Best I recall the 10 had that sweet brushed face and (or at least mine did) the Pro had the chrome?


----------



## TheVortex

Just got in the ZS10 Pro X and it seems a decent option from my brief listening but it does seem the DD is doing most of the work.

Not shy on bass and the treble is not fatiguing for once.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 9, 2022)

how good is that DD in the ZS10 Pro x?

because ST5 bets on their Berry DD and cheaps out on 4 old Bellsings (+full metal shell +Modular Cable)
But it seems the old bellsings still tiring and peaky
ZS10ProX use unknown DD but "new" 4 Black BAs, it seems it did have smoother sound. (KZ black BAs tend to be tuned too safe even in All BA config)
now if KZ DD can compete with ST5 berry DD...

And hows the bass compared to ESX? ESX have good bass but its a bit too much for me to a point wide bore eartips needed just to tame it a bit.


----------



## saldsald

r31ya said:


> how good is that DD in the ZS10 Pro x?
> 
> because ST5 bets on their Berry DD and cheaps out on 4 old Bellsings (+full metal shell +Modular Cable)
> But it seems the old bellsings still tiring and peaky
> ...


Don't rely too much on these OOTB impressions. The ST5 is not peaky after burn-in.


----------



## r31ya

saldsald said:


> Don't rely too much on these OOTB impressions. The ST5 is not peaky after burn-in.


ooh nice.
TRN old V90 have different bellsing setup to its competitor avoid and apparently succesfully avoid sibilance.
hopefully this will be good and have good competition


----------



## saldsald

r31ya said:


> ooh nice.
> TRN old V90 have different bellsing setup to its competitor avoid and apparently succesfully avoid sibilance.
> hopefully this will be good and have good competition


Another thing is bellsing BAs are actually pretty expensive so they are likely not bellsings anyway. I had some condensation issues with the ST5 once and confirmed the BAs actually have measurable contributions.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/post-17122037


----------



## r31ya (Sep 9, 2022)

saldsald said:


> Another thing is bellsing BAs are actually pretty expensive so they are likely not bellsings anyway. I had some condensation issues with the ST5 once and confirmed the BAs actually have measurable contributions.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/trn-impressions-thread.881761/post-17122037


There is question on whether this ZS10ProX use crossover or parallelover?
Some asked the rep on the setup details and didn't quite get an answer from the kz rep in their discord.
---
I just hope this will sounds good indisregard of the spec and be proper successor to their legendary ZS10Pro and can fight their old rivals V90 (now ST5)


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

saldsald said:


> Don't rely too much on these OOTB impressions. The ST5 is not peaky after burn-in.


Considering burn in makes no change in FR....lol


----------



## PhonoPhi

Burning TRNs makes a lot of good sense, it is the KZ thread after all!


----------



## saldsald

Plumbus the Wise said:


> Considering burn in makes no change in FR....lol


I guess you are one of those who can read musicality from FR graphs then . There are numerous people who have measured the FR before and after removing the BAs. Look it up and maybe you can learn sth.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

saldsald said:


> I guess you are one of those who can read musicality from FR graphs then . There are numerous people who have measured the FR before and after removing the BAs. Look it up and maybe you can learn sth.


I'm going to take an educated guess here and say you have never tried a blind test with volume matching to actually test if your theory is correct?

Thankfully this hobby lets you just say anything you want with absolutely no burden of proof beyond "I heard it".  You should look into skepticism and the scientific method.


----------



## saldsald

Plumbus the Wise said:


> I'm going to take an educated guess here and say you have never tried a blind test with volume matching to actually test if your theory is correct?
> 
> Thankfully this hobby lets you just say anything you want with absolutely no burden of proof beyond "I heard it".  You should look into skepticism and the scientific method.


I am one of those who have removed drivers to measure their FRs and hear with my ears. By the way I have an educated degree in Physics so I think I might know some scientific methods.

Also I honestly don't understand how a blind test has to do with burn-in effect. How many people out there buy two pairs of earphones just to do a blind test anyway? Anyway, have a good day and enjoy your freedom of speech.


----------



## PhonoPhi

saldsald said:


> I am one of those who have removed drivers to measure their FRs and hear with my ears. By the way I have an educated degree in Physics so I think I might know some scientific methods.
> 
> Also I honestly don't understand how a blind test has to do with burn-in effect. How many people out there buy two pairs of earphones just to do a blind test anyway? Anyway, have a good day and enjoy your freedom of speech.


If you took any measurements - do you have any tangible proof of the effect of cables?

Having an "educated degree" sounds kind of almost convincing, but scientific facts are different from regalia.

One of your recent posts in "budget cables" is an amazing testament to the power of imagination and creative writing.

P. S. I had several pairs of all-BAs  (my favourite KZs: AS16, AS16 pro, ASX) to compare side by side to clearly see that burning-in is not a factor there. At the same time, my limited expetience is for giving few hours to stabilize to DDs and planars, while avoiding those IEMs where 100 or 100+ hours are claimed to be required (the next hyped IEMs would come much faster, so that after one "burns" this IEM, it is not even mentioned anymore )


----------



## saldsald

PhonoPhi said:


> If you took any measurements - do you have any tangible proof of the effect of cables?
> 
> Having an "educated degree" sounds kind of almost convincing, but scientific facts are different from regalia.
> 
> ...


I hope you have realised you are also just 'expressing your impressions' here. Let's keep it this way and continue our freedom of speech together.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

saldsald said:


> I hope you have realised you are also just 'expressing your impressions' here. Let's keep it this way and continue our freedom of speech together.


With your self professed extensive education you still managed to miss the entire point of their comment.


----------



## PhonoPhi

saldsald said:


> I hope you have realised you are also just 'expressing your impressions' here. Let's keep it this way and continue our freedom of speech together.


Very covenient and "on the surface" seemingly hard to dispute for "innocent" hobbies.

in the grander scheme of things, freedom must come with resposibilities and accountability.

"Flat eathers" are free to express their claims, as long as they won't try to built geolocation systems.

Google how it was tried and failed to build power cables based on claims that graphene can improve copper conductivity.

Expressing my beliefs that blue cables are superior lead to my posts removed as "trolling", so freedom of speech may not be supported if it is counteraligned with commercial interests.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

PhonoPhi said:


> Very covenient and "on the surface" seemingly hard to dispute for "innocent" hobbies.
> 
> in the grander scheme of things, freedom must come with resposibilities and accountability.


Also, lets not forgot freedom of speech doesn't exist on a privately owned platform like head-fi either.  They can and do sensor whomever they see fit to...and that is their right.


----------



## saldsald

K.


Plumbus the Wise said:


> Also, lets not forgot freedom of speech doesn't exist on a privately owned platform like head-fi either.  They can and do sensor whomever they see fit to...and that is their right.


That's right and that's why he got banned.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 10, 2022)

saldsald said:


> K.
> 
> That's right and that's why he got banned.


Do not project the weakness of your personal feelings 
I was not banned, but the action of "anonymous" moderators was loud and clear to address accountability (as per no any credible proofs for wild cable fantasies) vs. "freedom of speech" for those wild fantasies.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Can y'all either stop bickering or get a room? We have important issues to discuss here, like does a chrome face plate exhibit more sibilance than a brushed metal one?


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> Can y'all either stop bickering or get a room? We have important issues to discuss here, like does a chrome face plate exhibit more sibilance than a brushed metal one?


Beautiful champ.  Brushed metal obviously is smoother sounding with a warmer tonality.


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

Plumbus the Wise said:


> Beautiful champ.  Brushed metal obviously is smoother sounding with a warmer tonality.


And chrome plating is brighter, so it shines when paired with a copper cable to tame the 40kHz+ band.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> And chrome plating is brighter, so it shines when paired with a copper cable to tame the 40kHz+ band.


Very true.  In my older age however I cannot hear much over 37k anymore.  Sadly lost that sense of super air and the 4d soundstage.


----------



## Taila

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> And chrome plating is brighter, so it shines when paired with a copper cable to tame the 40kHz+ band.


🤣😂😂


----------



## jananan78

for a moment i was wondering what was going on there lol. might as well. i removed the metallic faceplate and cut out the plastic shell underneath and then super glued the metallic shell back on it does increase the treble energy but it works even better when i polished the brushed metal to a shine with the finest grade sandpaper and then a nail polisher for that super shine and floss. now i feel bad.


----------



## Carpet

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> And chrome plating is brighter, so it shines when paired with a copper cable to tame the 40kHz+ band.


Everyone rush out to buy the new sandpaper ear tips, that take the rough edges off the sound!  

They have just been released at FairyMagicTips.com


----------



## 1clearhead

Hello fellow head-fier’s…here’s my “quick impression” on the *CCA PLA13*.




https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/post-17139261

Enjoy!

-Clear


----------



## KipNix

I ran across this thread and theory and found it fascinating. 
  It's about soundstage depth by studying FR graphs. 
  With all the KZ models out there, I'm wondering, fellow KZ bros:
- what do you think of this theory? 
- have you found any KZ models proving this theory? 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can-a-graph-show-iem-soundstage-maybe-so.960191/

(If this has already been discussed in here, my apologies.)


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 13, 2022)

KipNix said:


> I ran across this thread and theory and found it fascinating.
> It's about soundstage depth by studying FR graphs.
> With all the KZ models out there, I'm wondering, fellow KZ bros:
> - what do you think of this theory?
> ...



Graphs can tell some information, but they don't tell the full story.

They can tell tonality quite well - eg quantity of bass/treble and midrange recession/boost in relation to the other frequencies. Some qualitative aspects can perhaps be hinted but not 100% ascertained from a standard FR graph - eg timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation, soundstage cannot be fully told without listening to the IEM itself.

There are more niche graphs such as waterfall graphs that perhaps can let u glean other information, but from a standard FR graph, that's some stuff that cannot be told TBH.

I do measurements with a IEC711 coupler for IEMs and consider myself a part-time measurebator, but if graphs told the full story and you can EQ any IEM to sound like another IEM just based on FR graphs, then why don't people just buy a $1 IEM from a dollar store and EQ it to sound like a Moondrop Illumination and call it a day? I know nowadays, if a new IEM is released, people will demand a graph first. That's fair enough, you can use these graphs as a gatekeeper to see if you will like (or dislike) the tonality, but even if two graphs measure similarly, the IEMs may sound quite different.

Case in point:




Graph of Olina versus Oxygen via IEC711 compliant coupler. 8/9 kHz area is a coupler artefact peak.

Tonally, while the Olina and Oxygen are similar as the graphs suggest, on actual A/B testing, the Oxygen sounds smoother, being less bright/sibilant and causing less fatigue than the Olina during longer listening sessions.  In terms of timbral accuracy, the Oxygen is more natural sounding, with the Olina sounding nasal.

In soundstage (width and depth), imaging, and instrument separation, the Oxygen is better. The Olina also has a less tight bass; the low frequencies sound a bit undefined and lacking texture compared to the tighter and cleaner bass of the Oxygen.


Another case study:





The TOTL Final Audio A8000 graphs similarly to the KZ ZSN Pro. But the A8000 is leagues ahead in timbral accuracy and technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, micro-detailing, transients).


----------



## PhonoPhi

KipNix said:


> I ran across this thread and theory and found it fascinating.
> It's about soundstage depth by studying FR graphs.
> With all the KZ models out there, I'm wondering, fellow KZ bros:
> - what do you think of this theory?
> ...


In my limited perception, the stage (positioing) is largely the property of recording, in time and phase differences between channels.
It can be surely enhanced by the transducers, e.g. by positioning multiple drivers and possibly imementing some time/phase delay by crossovers.
I have harder time understanding how it can be linked to frequency responses. I tried ro read several h these threads, and could not get it. So my subjective opinion about it is another overinterpretation of frequency response graphs.


baskingshark said:


> Graphs can tell some information, but they don't tell the full story.
> 
> They can tell tonality quite well - eg quantity of bass/treble and midrange recession/boost in relation to the other frequencies. Some qualitative aspects can perhaps be hinted but not 100% ascertained from a standard FR graph - eg timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation, soundstage cannot be fully told without listening to the IEM itself.
> 
> ...


True, the driver properties are not limited to the frequency response that is generated just by sweeping the frequency.
Then one can"t equalize what is not there, so $1 IEM do not have much chance.

At the same time, with multidrivers, like many affordable KZs, a lot can be done to shape the response to one's liking.

My recent fascination/obsession is AST with the impedance adapters - the drivers are all there, and they can respond, so channeling the power differently to those BA drivers works well. Similarly, equalizing these multidriver IEMs should offer a lot to get it close to one's preferences.


----------



## saldsald (Sep 13, 2022)

KipNix said:


> I ran across this thread and theory and found it fascinating.
> It's about soundstage depth by studying FR graphs.
> With all the KZ models out there, I'm wondering, fellow KZ bros:
> - what do you think of this theory?
> ...


I think it only works for headphones. According to Rtings.com:

_In order to measure the amount of interaction between the pinna and headphones, a test was devised that we call PRTF, short for pinna-related transfer function. For this test, we got an extra ear for our dummy head,* chopped its pinna off*, and measured the frequency response of each headphone twice. Once with the intact ear, and once with the ear with the missing pinna. The difference between the two frequency responses is the PRTF of the headphone.

Headphone's PRTF = (Frequency Response w/ Pinna) - (Frequency Response w/o Pinna)_

You need two measurements to calculate the PRTF and since IEMs' sound paths do not involve the pinna (not the pinna gain), the adoption of this technique by randomly picking some values from the FR graphs should be very questionable.


----------



## HAMS

KipNix said:


> I ran across this thread and theory and found it fascinating.
> It's about soundstage depth by studying FR graphs.
> With all the KZ models out there, I'm wondering, fellow KZ bros:
> - what do you think of this theory?
> ...


I tried it with EQ. Reducing upper treble make soundstage less wider or "more 3D", for me it is just less resolution. So I guess FR can contribute partially to soundstage.


----------



## r31ya

New KZ teaser from Tyvan Lam (kz rep)





Seems to be KZ with resin shell with inner tubing


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> New KZ teaser from Tyvan Lam (kz rep)
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be KZ with resin shell with inner tubing


I hope, it is a hybrid of a small planar driver and BAs


----------



## jananan78

From further testing on AS16 Pro (yes i know it's outdated st KZ's pace) it scales pretty well with better quality sources such as SACDlDSD compared to MP3 or AAC or MQA(FLAC). the resolution is definitely there with high quality sources, not just higher powered source equipment. the instrument separation of multi BA arrangement really shines even though it might not have the more accurate timbre of an all Knowles unit.


----------



## AdamPA1006

KZ ASF way too big for my ears, my right ear hurts greatly when I try to use them. The ZEX PROs are slightly smaller and justtttt about usable for me, but not for too long of time periods. How do the AS16 pros compare in size to these two?


----------



## independent

AdamPA1006 said:


> KZ ASF way too big for my ears, my right ear hurts greatly when I try to use them. The ZEX PROs are slightly smaller and justtttt about usable for me, but not for too long of time periods. How do the AS16 pros compare in size to these two?


I have/had those three iems. ASF is just ok, or so-so comfortable for me but OK. AS16 pro is a perfect fit for me. YMMV


----------



## Carpet

AdamPA1006 said:


> KZ ASF way too big for my ears, my right ear hurts greatly when I try to use them. The ZEX PROs are slightly smaller and justtttt about usable for me, but not for too long of time periods. How do the AS16 pros compare in size to these two?


Zex pro is smallest and I find most comfortable. AS16 Pro is larger but still comfortable, NOT for side sleeping but still comfortable and reasonably secure due to deeper fit. ASF is similar size to AS16 Pro but least comfortable of the three, the wing is a little weirdly shaped compared to most semi-custom shaped IEMs.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 16, 2022)

After recieving several "complaints" over how CCA PLA13 is tuned
namely, complains on how its tuned to KZ sound sig which kinda blunted the planar driver
KZ is going to release "KZ" side of Planar IEMs which uniquely have two iems with two separate tuning targets


Presumably the standard will have KZ fun V, while the high res should be flatter (less bass) or have higher treble.
No additional info like graph yet.
---
Confirmation by KZ rep


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> After recieving several "complaints" over how CCA PLA13 is tuned
> namely, complains on how its tuned to KZ sound sig which kinda blunted the planar driver
> KZ is going to release "KZ" side of Planar IEMs which uniquely have two iems with two separate tuning targets
> 
> ...



Well, that's par for the course for KZ.

Maybe if you wait one week after this new planar is launched, a "PRO" version of it will also be released thereafter.


----------



## unifutomaki

r31ya said:


> After recieving several "complaints" over how CCA PLA13 is tuned
> namely, complains on how its tuned to KZ sound sig which kinda blunted the planar driver
> KZ is going to release "KZ" side of Planar IEMs which uniquely have two iems with two separate tuning targets
> 
> ...


Most importantly they oriented the Planar text correctly on both sides on this one


----------



## jananan78

r31ya said:


> After recieving several "complaints" over how CCA PLA13 is tuned
> namely, complains on how its tuned to KZ sound sig which kinda blunted the planar driver
> KZ is going to release "KZ" side of Planar IEMs which uniquely have two iems with two separate tuning targets
> 
> ...





r31ya said:


> After recieving several "complaints" over how CCA PLA13 is tuned
> namely, complains on how its tuned to KZ sound sig which kinda blunted the planar driver
> KZ is going to release "KZ" side of Planar IEMs which uniquely have two iems with two separate tuning targets
> 
> ...


now that is a beautiful shell.


----------



## Aparker2005

Got my ES3 in today. They are absolutely every bit as good as I remember them being. On a more comparable level, these also blow my custom Ultimate Ears UE5 pros away. They fit perfectly as well. I'd say with these and my CCA CA16s, I'm completely set on iems now.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

baskingshark said:


> Well, that's par for the course for KZ.
> 
> Maybe if you wait one week after this new planar is launched, a "PRO" version of it will also be released thereafter.


When will these be available?


----------



## Carpet

Capo Dei Capi said:


> When will these be available?


About a week after we get reviews of the previous released model, and have already ordered them.


----------



## r31ya

Akros review of KZ ZS10ProX


----------



## PotatoMEZE

*ZS10 Pro X , the Best KZ for me . (*including the model that is not in the picture*) 
BA Timbre less than AS16 Pro  Spinfit W1 *, it helps in sound quality as well.


----------



## jananan78

PotatoMEZE said:


> *ZS10 Pro X , the Best KZ for me . (*including the model that is not in the picture*)
> BA Timbre less than AS16 Pro  Spinfit W1 *, it helps in sound quality as well.


the w1s look like the spring tips at first glance


----------



## Basss (Sep 21, 2022)

Hello, i have xb90ex but already dead.
Is there any kz can beat xb90ex?

I decide to pick *kz zas*, or any other alternative *better quality than xb90ex*?

I hear about *cca pla 13,*.. is that iem big upgrade to kz zas?
Because *my budget on kz zas*

Sorry for my bad english


----------



## Chamak

I am completely new to iem's i have a low budget of 30 dollars and have seven options kz ba10,kz zs10,kz as10, kz dq6, kz zsn pro x, kbear lark and blon 03 which should i go  for the zs10 and as10 are more expensive st around 45 dollars and ba10 is around .21dollars so i was going for kz ba10 but it doesn't have many reviews and also  reviews suggest that it is extremely uncomfortable  but i normally prefer music quality over comfort  but is that really that much uncomfortable? which should i go for  You can also suggest me if other options are available and also please tell me which one sounds the best of these bunch?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Chamak said:


> I am completely new to iem's i have a low budget of 30 dollars and have seven options kz ba10,kz zs10,kz as10, kz dq6, kz zsn pro x, kbear lark and blon 03 which should i go  for the zs10 and as10 are more expensive st around 45 dollars and ba10 is around .21dollars so i was going for kz ba10 but it doesn't have many reviews and also  reviews suggest that it is extremely uncomfortable  but i normally prefer music quality over comfort  but is that really that much uncomfortable? which should i go for  You can also suggest me if other options are available and also please tell me which one sounds the best of these bunch?


If you can find BA10 at below $30 - go for it - it is a more advanced version of AS10, with the only one disadvantage of a large angular shell. There are good reviews when BA10 became available as $20-30 IEM (vs its original peice of $85, shocking for KZ IEM at that time).
 BA10 is likely sold out now.

DQ6 and ZEX would be other good candidates to consider.
All of them, BA10, DQ6 and ZEX, have very different sound signatures - look up opinions and see what will align better with your preferences.


----------



## Nimweth

Chamak said:


> I am completely new to iem's i have a low budget of 30 dollars and have seven options kz ba10,kz zs10,kz as10, kz dq6, kz zsn pro x, kbear lark and blon 03 which should i go  for the zs10 and as10 are more expensive st around 45 dollars and ba10 is around .21dollars so i was going for kz ba10 but it doesn't have many reviews and also  reviews suggest that it is extremely uncomfortable  but i normally prefer music quality over comfort  but is that really that much uncomfortable? which should i go for  You can also suggest me if other options are available and also please tell me which one sounds the best of these bunch?


If you can get the BA10 for $21 then do not hesitate. It is one of KZ's finest. Fit should not be a problem if you have fairly large ear canals. Along with the ZS7 the BA10 is my favourite KZ.


----------



## PotatoMEZE

Chamak said:


> I am completely new to iem's i have a low budget of 30 dollars and have seven options kz ba10,kz zs10,kz as10, kz dq6, kz zsn pro x, kbear lark and blon 03 which should i go  for the zs10 and as10 are more expensive st around 45 dollars and ba10 is around .21dollars so i was going for kz ba10 but it doesn't have many reviews and also  reviews suggest that it is extremely uncomfortable  but i normally prefer music quality over comfort  but is that really that much uncomfortable? which should i go for  You can also suggest me if other options are available and also please tell me which one sounds the best of these bunch?



For me , DQ6S is good choice .
Natural vocals and have enough body. There is a good weight sound gradation , attractive, unique. Vocals and instrument have realistic sounds. The gradation of the instrument sounds is good. Bass has a good rumble and control is fairly good.
The soundstage and dimensions are quite good.  Bloate sound is weakness.
ZS10 Pro X similar to DQ6S in Vocals but still hardened BA style . ZS10 Pro X  has better in detail , soundstage and smooth .


----------



## Basss

which one the best? Kbear rosefinch vs zs10 pro/x?


----------



## Chamak (Sep 23, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> If you can find BA10 at below $30 - go for it - it is a more advanced version of AS10, with the only one disadvantage of a large angular shell. There are good reviews when BA10 became available as $20-30 IEM (vs its original peice of $85, shocking for KZ IEM at that time).
> BA10 is likely sold out now.
> 
> DQ6 and ZEX would be other good candidates to consider.
> All of them, BA10, DQ6 and ZEX, have very different sound signatures - look up opinions and see what will align better with your preferences.


I like more natural sound with good mids with good instrument separation and clear sound whuch one should i get ba10 or dq6 also i actually wrote the price of zs10 wrong it is around 28 and dq6 is around 18 dollars.


----------



## kappazeta78 (Sep 23, 2022)

Chamak said:


> I am completely new to iem's i have a low budget of 30 dollars and have seven options kz ba10,kz zs10,kz as10, kz dq6, kz zsn pro x, kbear lark and blon 03 which should i go  for the zs10 and as10 are more expensive st around 45 dollars and ba10 is around .21dollars so i was going for kz ba10 but it doesn't have many reviews and also  reviews suggest that it is extremely uncomfortable  but i normally prefer music quality over comfort  but is that really that much uncomfortable? which should i go for  You can also suggest me if other options are available and also please tell me which one sounds the best of these bunch?


Very low budget? KZ eda balanced.


----------



## Chamak

PotatoMEZE said:


> For me , DQ6S is good choice .
> Natural vocals and have enough body. There is a good weight sound gradation , attractive, unique. Vocals and instrument have realistic sounds. The gradation of the instrument sounds is good. Bass has a good rumble and control is fairly good.
> The soundstage and dimensions are quite good.  Bloate sound is weakness.
> ZS10 Pro X similar to DQ6S in Vocals but still hardened BA style . ZS10 Pro X  has better in detail , soundstage and smooth .


The thing is i have already ordered the ba10 as the deal on it was ending and only 1 unit was left should i cancel it and get this for 19 is there any drastic difference between them i really like clear vocals and good mids  clear sound with good sound instrument separation and imaging. I am currently not a iem enthusiast and only starting with  this should i cancel it?


----------



## PhonoPhi

Chamak said:


> I like more natural sound with good mids with good instrument separation and clear sound whuch one should i get ba10 or dq6 also i actually wrote the price of zs10 wrong it is around 28 and dq6 is around 18 dollars.


BA10 will work, getting it for $20 is great.


----------



## Chamak

PhonoPhi said:


> BA10 will work, getting it for $20 is great.


Thanks for helping already ordered it as it has sold out really fast and only 1 unit was left. But i am still confused as some are saying dq6 provides better and clear sound so i am kinda confuzzled right now it would have been really great if i could try them in person but there is no shop  that gives free trials. I have already described my music type did i make any mistake getting it over dq6?


----------



## Chamak

kappazeta78 said:


> Very low budget? KZ eda balanced.


Its currently not available and  many say the sound of this isn't as clean as as10 or ba10 or dq6


----------



## PhonoPhi (Sep 23, 2022)

Chamak said:


> Thanks for helping already ordered it as it has sold out really fast and only 1 unit was left. But i am still confused as some are saying dq6 provides better and clear sound so i am kinda confuzzled right now it would have been really great if i could try them in person but there is no shop  that gives free trials. I have already described my music type did i make any mistake getting it over dq6?


DQ6 are great, too bright for some,, but excellent $25-30 IEM.
BA10 used to be KZ's top IEM, and to me BA10 are still at different level than DQ6.
Part if it also the preference for all-BAs vs. DDs.

P. S. EDA balanced and ESX are single DDs, very good, but more basic.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chamak said:


> Thanks for helping already ordered it as it has sold out really fast and only 1 unit was left. But i am still confused as some are saying dq6 provides better and clear sound so i am kinda confuzzled right now it would have been really great if i could try them in person but there is no shop  that gives free trials. I have already described my music type did i make any mistake getting it over dq6?






If u want mids, dont think KZ is the brand you should go for tbh...


Check out the Salnotes Zero.


----------



## nihil23 (Sep 23, 2022)

Chamak said:


> Thanks for helping already ordered it as it has sold out really fast and only 1 unit was left. But i am still confused as some are saying dq6 provides better and clear sound so i am kinda confuzzled right now it would have been really great if i could try them in person but there is no shop  that gives free trials. I have already described my music type did i make any mistake getting it over dq6?


The main problem of the ba10 is the fit in the ear, they are big by themselves and they have a wide sound guide, so they may not fit just physically. I would never recommend them as the only or first iem, although I like their sound.


----------



## Carpet (Sep 23, 2022)

Chamak said:


> I am completely new to iem's i have a low budget of 30 dollars and have seven options kz ba10,kz zs10,kz as10, kz dq6, kz zsn pro x, kbear lark and blon 03 which should i go  for the zs10 and as10 are more expensive st around 45 dollars and ba10 is around .21dollars so i was going for kz ba10 but it doesn't have many reviews and also  reviews suggest that it is extremely uncomfortable  but i normally prefer music quality over comfort  but is that really that much uncomfortable? which should i go for  You can also suggest me if other options are available and also please tell me which one sounds the best of these bunch?


The development of IEMs has been very rapid. All of the models you have listed are several years old and have been eclipsed by more recent releases. Some were very good when they were released.


RikudouGoku said:


> If u want mids, dont think KZ is the brand you should go for tbh...
> 
> 
> Check out the Salnotes Zero.


This is very good advise. KZ focuses on V shaped signatures with recessed mids. 7Hz Salnotes Zero is the best current budget option for good mids! Ironically, if you had asked a couple of months ago, it would have been the Moondrop Chu (things change pretty fast).

I'm fond of the CVJ CSA, but wouldn't recommend that over the Zero now.


----------



## kappazeta78

Chamak said:


> Its currently not available and  many say the sound of this isn't as clean as as10 or ba10 or dq6


I think that if you are completely new to iem eda balanced can be a good "introduction" for you: a fun but pretty accurate tuning with a very fast and tight bass (IMO eda balanced is far superior to dq6).
Completely different from as10 and ba10 which are all BA iem.


----------



## Chamak

kappazeta78 said:


> Very low budget? KZ eda balanced.


Its currently not available and  many say the sound of this isnt as clean as as10 or ba10 or dq6


RikudouGoku said:


> If u want mids, dont think KZ is the brand you should go for tbh...
> 
> 
> Check out the Salnotes Zero.


----------



## Chamak

kappazeta78 said:


> I think that if you are completely new to iem eda balanced can be a good "introduction" for you: a fun but pretty accurate tuning with a very fast and tight bass (IMO eda balanced is far superior to dq6).
> Completely different from as10 and ba10 which are all BA iem.


Yeah i am completely new and confused with this many iem's i dont even know the main difference between a all ba and dynamic driver setup as i havent heard any all ba ones  i have heard kz zsn pro x which have both dynamic driver and ba's which i liked but it lacked in clarity. I went for the ba10 as some websites suggested that as ba's work in a certain frequency range it provides cleaner sound than dynamic driver's but now i realized that it doesn't work like that and  i just oversimplified it.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Speaking of KZ...





https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xm6hyp/kz_looking_to_take_down_their_competitors/


They are sinking lower and lower....


----------



## Jansvast

T


RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking of KZ...
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xm6hyp/kz_looking_to_take_down_their_competitors/
> ...


Tyvan's English doesn't help either... It's often hard to comperhend what he's trying to say... KZ is funky XD


----------



## Chamak

RikudouGoku said:


> If u want mids, dont think KZ is the brand you should go for tbh...
> 
> 
> Check out the Salnotes Zero.


It is not available in my area so i can't get it but they said it might get available next month but unsure of it. Should i wait and can you tell me how much difference is between this and ba10  in mids and details if the difference isn't drastic i will go for ba10  otherwise i will cancel the order and buy a cheap headphone until that becomes available will the waiting be worth it?


----------



## Ceilidh

RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking of KZ...
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xm6hyp/kz_looking_to_take_down_their_competitors/
> ...


kinda weird  how they're saying that Kinera's SPD is a "voice coil"


----------



## RikudouGoku

Chamak said:


> It is not available in my area so i can't get it but they said it might get available next month but unsure of it. Should i wait and can you tell me how much difference is between this and ba10  in mids and details if the difference isn't drastic i will go for ba10  otherwise i will cancel the order and buy a cheap headphone until that becomes available will the waiting be worth it?


I dont have the Salnotes Zero, but the graph difference between it and the BA10 are implying heavily that the Zero is tuned much better for mids.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 23, 2022)

RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking of KZ...
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xm6hyp/kz_looking_to_take_down_their_competitors/
> ...


KZ choose a very bad rep.
That rep is VERY argumentative and barely exist in KZ own discord.
Fiio googletranslate rep is by far more helpful and more communicative.

Lots have points out in discord that they need rep with more fluent english because of ease of misunderstanding and rep with better community communication capability.
But yeah, fell on deaf ears of that rep.

Its a bad wording, its a bad move to make as a company representative. but yeah, he felt he can do no wrong so...


----------



## KipNix

It's hard to get an all - BA IEM for $20, and I've yet to find any "recessed" mids. 
Research and learn about the differences of Balanced Armature (BA) and Dynamic Driver (DD). 
Then you have to decide which music genre you prefer. 
Read through the reviews here, for the suggested music genre, etc. . 
Congratulations for finding the right thread for IEMs that are inexpensive, sound great, and offer incredible value. 

Right now, for $20-$30, you can get a hybrid BA and DD that sound great. 

I'm an all - BA guy so my opinions are biased.


----------



## PotatoMEZE (Sep 24, 2022)

For me , *Salnotes Zero* like *Zero* in Mids and Vocals (Crin tuned *Zero* like *Monarch MKII* in Mids but different quality IEM) . (I don't know who tuned *Salnotes Zero* )
Good but not amazing.
I don't say , if them was retuned like "XXXX" , it'll like "XXXX" . I don't judge them by graphs , but from my ears.
I like *DQ6S* and *ZS10 Pro X* over  *Salnotes Zero* and *Zero* .
(Ps. *ZS10 Pro X *still have a little harden BA styles / *AS 16 Pro* have very good BA driver but not good in Low and Mids)


----------



## InvisibleInk

RikudouGoku said:


> Speaking of KZ...
> 
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/xm6hyp/kz_looking_to_take_down_their_competitors/
> ...



Which IEM is he trying to discredit and why? That is, what possible reasoning is behind his attempt to discredit this... celest... thing he's referencing?


----------



## DynamicEars

InvisibleInk said:


> Which IEM is he trying to discredit and why? That is, what possible reasoning is behind his attempt to discredit this... celest... thing he's referencing?


It's Kinera Celest Gumiho.
Not sure if they are using "real planar" or not, but On other side, aside from KZ, i feel we need to know if Kinera using similar planar or just "gimmicky planar" like what chifi industry did with "ESTs"
I myself also don't have any information nor education about what kind of planar used in budget segment, but the day I tried Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 which is claimed to have planar inside, but turned out they are small box that more looked like BA than planar to me, and it doesn't have details like my Timeless.


----------



## freelancr

I don't want to defend or attack any brand here but the definition of the word planar is very broad by itself:
1: of, relating to, or lying in a plane
2: two-dimensional in quality

The correct thing to do for these companies would be to be more precise in their descriptions.
Planar with tech x, planar with tech y


----------



## r31ya (Sep 24, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> It's Kinera Celest Gumiho.
> Not sure if they are using "real planar" or not, but On other side, aside from KZ, i feel we need to know if Kinera using similar planar or just "gimmicky planar" like what chifi industry did with "ESTs"
> I myself also don't have any information nor education about what kind of planar used in budget segment, but the day I tried Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 which is claimed to have planar inside, but turned out they are small box that more looked like BA than planar to me, and it doesn't have details like my Timeless.


Apparently tyvan is not the only one who kinda sus on Kinera Celest "_Planar_".
Kinera also pre-emptively renamed it as new type of driver, "_Square Planar Driver_". So technically, they can say its not a traditional planar.
Seems kz a bit pissed someone manage to undercut their Planar-IEM pricing by using _Square Planar Driver _and get better response.
well, seems more loved tuning and better box set kinda have that effect on people, KZ.

Some have complaining on the wasteful tuning used on CCA pla13 on kz discord but at the time, he remain defensive on the tuning.
But apparently the complains went through a bit as the KZ version of planar, PR1 (apparently the request to have more thematic name haven't gone through) will have two version, the "KZ bassy fun" PLA13 like tuning and the Hifi version seems to have more balanced with better treble extension.


----------



## Ceilidh (Sep 24, 2022)

freelancr said:


> I don't want to defend or attack any brand here but the definition of the word planar is very broad by itself:
> 1: of, relating to, or lying in a plane
> 2: two-dimensional in quality
> 
> ...


yeah, for all we know, the only difference between Kinera's Planar and the others is that the casing is square.
Planar tech isn't new, it's been used for decades for headphones, and afaik, it's basically the same idea for IEMs, just scaled down a lot.

As previously mentioned, the Huawei planar is extremely small, but it's still planar tech, so trying to claim that there are "true" planars vs "not true" planars is very weird, as long as the tech is the same at its core.

EDIT: As a disclaimer, I think I should mention that I do have the Kinera Celest Gumiho, and I really like those, especially for that price.
And I did get those out of curiosity because they are "planars" hybrid, and I wanted to compare with the Dioko.
I am no critical listener and I don't have enough experience to say if, to my ears, there is a "planar" effect or not.
I was planning on getting the KZ PR1 standard edition also out of curiosity, but that current drama thing irks me enough to put that idea on hold.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 24, 2022)

Ceilidh said:


> yeah, for all we know, the only difference between Kinera's Planar and the others is that the casing is square.
> Planar tech isn't new, it's been used for decades for headphones, and afaik, it's basically the same idea for IEMs, just scaled down a lot.
> 
> As previously mentioned, the Huawei planar is extremely small, but it's still planar tech, so trying to claim that there are "true" planars vs "not true" planars is very weird, as long as the tech is the same at its core.
> ...


The thing is, its unnecessary drama.
KZ PR1 HIFI is already have a bit of hype. Release the graph (hopefully more balanced graph like eda-bal or lyra) and the hype will go up.
hopefully it reviewed well, and KZ could outmatch Gumiho through proper battle.

KZ probably have bought and dissect gumiho, but keep that information for future products, or when people ask why KZ Planar is more expensive.
There is no need to clumsily ask third party reviewer "to tear down gumiho..." (ambiguous wording)

and uh... this is not exactly positive but, if you want to ask third party reviewer to do a "dissection" on rival company iems, why use your MAIN ACCOUNT that can be traced back to KZ? What!?
its like, "wha?"


----------



## Ceilidh

PROblemdetected posted some details that he found of FB about the Kinera Gumiho driver, which might explain why KZ's representative is being annoyed by it.
It does not excuse his behaviour, and I actually find their version of planar interesting, as the results are quite good (but different) than the planars drivers we had up until now for an obviously lower price.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kinera-qoa-discussion-thread.964627/page-2#post-17161876
After all, and even if it's not "like" the other planars, it is still a planar, albeit using a different technology.
My guess is that it might give other companies some ideas for cheap and frankly quite good drivers for the price.


----------



## baskingshark (Sep 25, 2022)

r31ya said:


> The thing is, its unnecessary drama.
> KZ PR1 HIFI is already have a bit of hype. Release the graph (hopefully more balanced graph like eda-bal or lyra) and the hype will go up.
> hopefully it reviewed well, and KZ could outmatch Gumiho through proper battle.
> 
> ...



Actually it is par for the course that companies may exaggerate their marketing, especially when it comes to driver count, brand and type. This is to stand out from the ultra cut-throat competition.

1) *You have stories of fake drivers* - eg BGVP's purported beryllium in the DN2. Even those budget IEMs that are purportedly beryllium coated/plated, nobody knows if they are truly implemented well or the companies just sprinkled a few flakes of beryllium and passed it off as a legit beryllium driver. Most consumers won't have spectrometers to prove or disprove the company's claims. I have heard so-called "beryllium" drivers that sounded worse than a conventional DD.

2)* You have stories of unsoldered BAs or BAs very minimally affecting the sound,* despite claims of super high driver counts.

3)* You have stories of drivers not working* eg glue blocking the drivers ie QC fail.

4) *Even TOTL companies have been caught with their pants down using so-called cheaper Bellsing BAs* than more reputable Knowles/Sonion stuff - https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...s-in-Trade-Secret-Theft-Case-Against-Bellsing
- This is akin to paying for a Ferrari and realizing the engine inside is a cheap Cherry QQ engine. Yes you can still drive from point A to B, but imagine the vast profits these companies are making from consumers, and it is more the ethics behind it that is troubling.

5)* You have companies "mislabelling" drivers.* Eg most so-called electrostatic IEMs in the budget segment are actually magnetostats or electrets.
- A true electrostatic set is usually expensive and has its own dedicated voltage supply. Eg the true higher voltage electrostatic drivers (for example, something like the Shure KSE1500 or STAX SR series) actually have their own energizer amp or high voltage amplifier to drive them.
- The magnetostatics/electrets are pre-charged and they lose their charge over time. Companies like Shuoer, BGVP etc use this electret thing, they don't have a dedicated voltage supply and theoretically they may become inoperable once the charge is used up.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 25, 2022)

KZ PR1 (Hifi) early impression







---
Hifi ver vs Bass ver (kz published graph)


----------



## PotatoMEZE

I *hope* KZ PR1 will surprises me like CCA PLA13.   
For me , *CCA PLA13* *Yes!!!*. 
Tangzu Zetian Wu Nope!!! 
(including Shimin Li Nope!!!)


----------



## chinmie

baskingshark said:


> TRN has heard your challenge and is releasing a planar called the KIRIN: https://www.facebook.com/headphones.trn/posts/549181379942774
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe KZ might copy them soon. The driver nuclear race for as many drivers as KZ and TRN can squeeze into a shell is over. This year the battle is that of planars!!!



I've tested this last week on a meet, it was preet-ty bad, the treble is so distorted it's like someone puts a bitcrusher effect on it...it's a shame though because built-wise it's good, and the rest of the frequency (mids to bass) seems to be okay, but i can't listen to it past a few seconds because of the treble.. 

on the other hand, the KZ AS16 Pro and CCA CRA+ is really, really good for their price..i haven't heard/bought KZ products in quite a while (well, except for the AZ09 Pro, but that doesn't count) and these two tunings are really nicely done.. so good that one of my friend immediately buy both of them for his collection. 

I bought the KZ EDA and the regular CRA, just for curiosity sake, let see how they perform. if it's not for me, i would pass them on to my nephews


----------



## Carpet

chinmie said:


> I've tested this last week on a meet, it was preet-ty bad, the treble is so distorted it's like someone puts a bitcrusher effect on it...it's a shame though because built-wise it's good, and the rest of the frequency (mids to bass) seems to be okay, but i can't listen to it past a few seconds because of the treble..
> 
> on the other hand, the KZ AS16 Pro and CCA CRA+ is really, really good for their price..i haven't heard/bought KZ products in quite a while (well, except for the AZ09 Pro, but that doesn't count) and these two tunings are really nicely done.. so good that one of my friend immediately buy both of them for his collection.
> 
> I bought the KZ EDA and the regular CRA, just for curiosity sake, let see how they perform. if it's not for me, i would pass them on to my nephews


CRA is hard not to like, it's an IEM that made me do a double take. It's not perfect, but I've given away more expensive IEMs, so I could keep it!


----------



## r31ya (Sep 26, 2022)

per KZ own graph, (Ianfann post 7k is flatter than kz published graph, possibly coupler issues)





digitized by evasb from kz discord, PR1 standard-bassy (red) vs PR1 Hifi (green)




KZ PR1 Hifi vs Timeless.


----------



## jmwant

baskingshark said:


> Companies like Shuoer, BGVP etc use this electret thing, they don't have a dedicated voltage supply and theoretically they may become inoperable once the charge is used up.


In that case, shouldn't the brands mention how long the charge will last?


----------



## jananan78 (Sep 26, 2022)

PotatoMEZE said:


> For me , *Salnotes Zero* like *Zero* in Mids and Vocals (Crin tuned *Zero* like *Monarch MKII* in Mids but different quality IEM) . (I don't know who tuned *Salnotes Zero* )
> Good but not amazing.
> I don't say , if them was retuned like "XXXX" , it'll like "XXXX" . I don't judge them by graphs , but from my ears.
> I like *DQ6S* and *ZS10 Pro X* over  *Salnotes Zero* and *Zero* .
> (Ps. *ZS10 Pro X *still have a little harden BA styles / *AS 16 Pro* have very good BA driver but not good in Low and Mids)


i beg to differ AS16 Pro sub bass is ample especially with an dongle amp and any single crystal copper cable. and i am using it with treble emphasized tips. it doesn't have the DD dynamic midbass slam but the ample subbass makes up for it. the distance from the sub bass to the mid also emphasizes the separation. amp and cables makes a difference for all BA sets compared to DD only or hybrids. BAs are much influenced by the variations of accessories.


----------



## PotatoMEZE (Sep 27, 2022)

jananan78 said:


> i beg to differ AS16 Pro sub bass is ample especially with an dongle amp and any single crystal copper cable. and i am using it with treble emphasized tips. it doesn't have the DD dynamic midbass slam but the ample subbass makes up for it. the distance from the dunbass to the mid also emphasizes the separation. amp and cables makes a difference for all BA sets compared to DD only or hybrids. BAs are much influenced by the variations of accessories.


Needless to say about *ALL BA Set* or for changing various upgrade cables. Change the tips.
If it's really good, it doesn't need an impedance adapter. (What is needed should be in the box.)
*It is normal to have different opinions.*
But....If it's tuned well , it doesn't require anything. The sound from the device in the box would be enough.

Or do you think I don't have any upgrade cables or good tips?
The vocals seem unreal. Too soothing.
Most of my friends and my community groups not like it.
Clean , clear , clarity , separation , imaging are *strengths* of AS16 Pro. Tuned not well (play safe to soft tuned) and many BA Timbre are *weakness*.
Sorry to be honest.
Done.


----------



## baskingshark

jmwant said:


> In that case, shouldn't the brands mention how long the charge will last?



That's in theory that the electrets and magnetostats will lose charge over time. But in practice, I think it would be at least a few years before the driver dies.

Anyway, a new hypetrain IEM will arrive in your mail box in a few weeks' time, way before any electret charges run out.


----------



## jmwant

baskingshark said:


> That's in theory that the electrets and magnetostats will lose charge over time. But in practice, I think it would be at least a few years before the driver dies.
> 
> Anyway, a new hypetrain IEM will arrive in your mail box in a few weeks' time, way before any electret charges run out.


Haha yeah. There are so many releases every month that even an IEMs released six months ago is considered old.


----------



## r31ya

jmwant said:


> Haha yeah. There are so many releases every month that even an IEMs released six months ago is considered old.


we already have full sets of new gen planar batch since timeless comes out.


----------



## Carpet

jmwant said:


> In that case, shouldn't the brands mention how long the charge will last?


It will last for the length of the warrantee (plus a small margin of error).


----------



## nihil23

PotatoMEZE said:


> I *hope* KZ PR1 will surprises me like CCA PLA13.
> For me , *CCA PLA13* *Yes!!!*.
> Tangzu Zetian Wu Nope!!!
> (including Shimin Li Nope!!!)


CCA PLA13 sounds better than Tangzu Zeitan Wu for you? Which part do you liked most and where was most of the difference? Thanks!


----------



## chinmie

so my EDA's and CRA have arrived, and I've been testing them this afternoon. i know I'm really late to party, but here's my pick from most to the least favorite:
1. EDA balance
2 and 3. EDA hi res/CRA (they switch positions depending on the music/mood) 
4. EDA bass 

i rate them on their tuning for my listening scenarios..not rating them on SQ as they are really similar in that category. 

the EDA hi res is good to listen in low volume, and good for movies too. 

overall I'm quite pleased at how KZ tuned their IEMs nowadays.. can't wait to see how they would improve more in the future


----------



## PotatoMEZE (Sep 26, 2022)

nihil23 said:


> CCA PLA13 sounds better than Tangzu Zeitan Wu for you? Which part do you liked most and where was most of the difference? Thanks!


Tangzu Zeitan Wu has more planar timbre. Hoarse voice and dry sound. Not good smooth.
I'm not the only one who thinks that way , my friends think so too.
The stores which I know think this way too. He didn't accept to order for sell. But I don't think the tonality is bad.
For CCA Pla13 isn't the best. Someone think too much bass boost and recess in the Mids . Vocals is OK.
It doesn't have good detail and good dimensions like Zeitan Wu and Timeless. But considering the price, it looks good.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

PotatoMEZE said:


> Tangzu Zeitan Wu has more planar timbre. Hoarse voice and dry sound. Not good smooth.
> I'm not the only one who thinks that way , my friends think so too.
> The stores which I know think this way too. He didn't accept to order for sell. But I don't think the tonality is bad.
> For CCA Pla13 isn't the best. Someone think too much bass boost and recess in the Mids . Vocals is OK.
> It doesn't have good detail and good dimensions like Zeitan Wu and Timeless. But considering the price, it looks good.


That you Tyvan??


----------



## PotatoMEZE (Sep 27, 2022)

Anycolouryoulike said:


> That you Tyvan??


Who?

edit:
I'm not a lot of social media. I don't know what that means. But I think it's in a bad way.
I don't like drama and I don't like pointing at someone face and say that you are Mr./Mrs. A B C (not fun at all) ..... and dividing the *good *and the *bad *side.
And pretend to be a hero stand on the good side. It's a childish play.
That someone thinks differently or similar , It's not uncommon . But we respect each other and not rude.
If anyone takes my pictures and pretend to be me, tell me . Thank.


----------



## Taila

Anycolouryoulike said:


> That you Tyvan??


😂🤣🤣


----------



## r31ya

Not out yet in ali, but its out on KZ website

https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-pr1

(13.2mm Planar, $79~$89)
Seems to be dual sided magnet Planar driver, 
the Standard Bassy version is $79 with metal faceplate and transparent resin body shell,
the Hifi version is $89 with metal faceplate and electroplated resin body shell.
The grill is all decorative.
There is $10~$15 discounts on the kz webstore, don't know how the ali pricing will be.


----------



## fastleo63 (Sep 30, 2022)

r31ya said:


>


Wow, maybe a nice compensation for my inevitable hearing loss...
I'm really curious to try them on my 60 years old ears, that cannot go anymore past 13 kHz (and with a lot of attuenuation from about 12 kHz).
By the way, some days ago I read an interesting paper from Knowles that suggested a modification to Harman target response, aimed to accomodate the above hearing issues.
The proposal is an equalization filter centered at 16 kHz, Q=4 and a boost from +12 dB (for young listeners, with no impairment) and adding about +3 dB for each 10 years of additional hearing age.
I tried the +18 dB on my Moondrop Chu and I was very pleased. I returned to hear some '80s recordings with the same "air" perception in the upper-highs that I felt when I was only 20 years old.

Here is the proposed equalization:


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> Not out yet in ali, but its out on KZ website
> 
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-pr1
> 
> ...


I'll wait and see what the introductory offer looks like. The driver in the PLA13 was okay, it will be interesting to see what they can tweak it to in a retuned version.


----------



## Ceilidh

r31ya said:


> Not out yet in ali, but its out on KZ website
> 
> https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-pr1
> 
> ...


I'm still interested in those, waiting to see opinions on the balanced version.
That being said, the way KZ's representative reacted to the Kinera Celest Gumiho really felt out of place to me, and I guess I'll refrain from buying anything from them for now.

I'll keep my ear to the ground, waiting for more opinions, but my enthousiasm for those has been extremely reduced by that behaviour.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 27, 2022)

Ceilidh said:


> I'm still interested in those, waiting to see opinions on the balanced version.
> That being said, the way KZ's representative reacted to the Kinera Celest Gumiho really felt out of place to me, and I guess I'll refrain from buying anything from them for now.
> 
> I'll keep my ear to the ground, waiting for more opinions, but my enthousiasm for those has been extremely reduced by that behaviour.


he is a bit salty when KZ got piled on for misguided statement from somedude that kz have "fake" drivers and gumiho got almost got a pass calling that planar-like dd, a planar...
that being said, bad wording, bad move on KZ-rep.
---
Its out in ali at early discount on $60~$70 (with ++ extra discount)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004791687722.html?pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!US $110.00!US $66.00!!!!!@210318c216642760790988030eba54!12000030502460939!sh&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.productList_2911412.pic_0


----------



## brsdrgn

r31ya said:


> he is a bit salty when KZ got piled on for misguided statement from somedude that kz have "fake" drivers and gumiho got almost got a pass calling that planar-like dd, a planar...
> that being said, bad wording, bad move on KZ-rep.
> ---
> Its out in ali at early discount on $60~$70 (with ++ extra discount)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004791687722.html?pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!US $110.00!US $66.00!!!!!@210318c216642760790988030eba54!12000030502460939!sh&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.productList_2911412.pic_0


There are many stores selling it already. It's just the new version AE app s... at showing related search result . Press on ordering from high price to low and it shows up. Greetings to the dear developers who managed to make an buggy version of the app which was just working fine...


----------



## Ceilidh (Sep 27, 2022)

brsdrgn said:


> There are many stores selling it already. It's just the new version AE app s... at showing related search result . Press on ordering from high price to low and it shows up. Greetings to the dear developers who managed to make an buggy version of the app which was just working fine...


Yeah I've had weird results for a while when using the website.
I've had more chances using the smartphone app.
When I was looking for the Dioko a while ago, I had no hit on the website, but no issue with the apps.
My guess is there are some regions shenanigans going on with the website.

EDIT: haha, while looking at the product page, I saw that they're making a poing of calling it a "true planar"
Kinda funny really, hopefully they'll be able to go on and learn something from the Kinera driver and find a way to experiment with that tech


----------



## brsdrgn

Ceilidh said:


> Yeah I've had weird results for a while when using the website.
> I've had more chances using the smartphone app.
> When I was looking for the Dioko a while ago, I had no hit on the website, but no issue with the apps.
> My guess is there are some regions shenanigans going on with the website.


They changed ui of the mobile app a few month ago and ofc some stuff in back-end side.Since then, plenty of issues remain. At first sorting algorithm wasn't even working. Now there's this issue that keyboard doesn't show up when you press on search bar. You need to go back and come again. Despite using English language, it still switches to the regional language from time to time. Issues with messages insisting on you to update the app even though it's updated and so on...


----------



## Ceilidh

brsdrgn said:


> They changed ui of the mobile app a few month ago. Since then, plenty of issues remain. At least first sorting algorithm wasn't even working. Now there's this issue that keyboard doesn't show up when you press on search bar. You need to go back and come again. Despite using English language, it still switches to the regional language from time to time. Issues with messages insisting on you to update the app even though it's updated and so on...


ha yes, those kind of issues. I do indeed still have a lot of them, but I also have them on the web version.
I'm kinda new to AliExpress so I thought it was the "standard" 
Thank you for the details, hopefully they'll get that sorted out before long.


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> he is a bit salty when KZ got piled on for misguided statement from somedude that kz have "fake" drivers and gumiho got almost got a pass calling that planar-like dd, a planar...
> that being said, bad wording, bad move on KZ-rep.
> ---
> Its out in ali at early discount on $60~$70 (with ++ extra discount)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004791687722.html?pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!US $110.00!US $66.00!!!!!@210318c216642760790988030eba54!12000030502460939!sh&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.productList_2911412.pic_0


Ordered it.
With the direct discounts, below $60. Could not say "no" as KZ fan, I guess. Hopefully, it will arrive soon.


----------



## brsdrgn

PhonoPhi said:


> Ordered it.
> With the direct discounts, below $60. Could not say "no" as KZ fan, I guess. Hopefully, it will arrive soon.


I'll hold my horses. I was quite tempted to buy CCA's planar. But I didn't and I'll wait till black Friday. Just wondering how many new planar iems will be released


----------



## baskingshark

brsdrgn said:


> I'll hold my horses. I was quite tempted to buy CCA's planar. But I didn't and I'll wait till black Friday. Just wondering how many new planar iems will be released



By Black Friday, I think we will have at least 10 other planars from various CHIFI brands released LOLOL! KZ and CCA might have released multiple pokemon planar sidegrades too, by that date! Every CHIFI and their cat and dog has a FOMO (Fear of missing out) and has jumped on the planar bandwagon.




PhonoPhi said:


> Ordered it.
> With the direct discounts, below $60. Could not say "no" as KZ fan, I guess. Hopefully, it will arrive soon.



Look forward to your reviews! Thanks for taking one for the team!


----------



## ChristianM

Both KZ PR1 and CCA PLA13 have the same driver as seen on Aliexpress. I wonder why they did not make Black (Balanced Edition) fully metal like Silver one. If PLA13 sound like DD then PR1 should sound like DD as well.


----------



## bhazard

CCA PLA13 is way too warm stock... but is excellent once you tame that.
KZ PR1 HiFi version sounds like a stock form of the tweaks I did on the PLA13.
Guess I'm getting another Planar.


----------



## Capo Dei Capi

Available on A-EXPRESS FOR £63, but is it worth 63?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...e716643022023412286e9efa!12000030502460939!sh


----------



## TheVortex

I have been using the KZ P1 Hifi since I have it delivered and it's very power hungry so I don't recommend using them off a weak sauce or even a phone.

They definitely have that treble extension and shame you can't see into the shell on this variant.


----------



## TechnoidFR

It's globally neutral, with big mountain peak attend 10/16khz. 

For wow effect... But I'm comparison to TRN ST5/KIRIN I'm not convinced

Maybe for classical... I'll see


----------



## saldsald

ChristianM said:


> Both KZ PR1 and CCA PLA13 have the same driver as seen on Aliexpress. I wonder why they did not make Black (Balanced Edition) fully metal like Silver one. If PLA13 sound like DD then PR1 should sound like DD as well.


The silver version is just electroplated resin I believe. I wish it's really full metal or I would have already bought it.


----------



## r31ya

bhazard said:


> CCA PLA13 is way too warm stock... but is excellent once you tame that.
> KZ PR1 HiFi version sounds like a stock form of the tweaks I did on the PLA13.
> Guess I'm getting another Planar.







It seems KZ is attempting to tame the subbass to ensure it wasn't disturbing other frequencies.





Compared to the current planar king (if you can get pr1 in discount, its 1/3 the price of the current king)


----------



## Carpet

TheVortex said:


> I have been using the KZ P1 Hifi since I have it delivered and it's very power hungry so I don't recommend using them off a weak sauce or even a phone.
> 
> They definitely have that treble extension and shame you can't see into the shell on this variant.


I'd love to know how these compare to the Celeste. 


TechnoidFR said:


> It's globally neutral, with big mountain peak attend 10/16khz.
> 
> For wow effect... But I'm comparison to TRN ST5/KIRIN I'm not convinced
> 
> Maybe for classical... I'll see


Same price and discount at KZ Earphones Franchised Store but with free shipping!

Introductory coupons are valid until the end of next week.


----------



## bhazard

I posted this on 9/12 in the CCA Thread:



bhazard said:


> I'm starting to wonder if IEMs like the CCA PLA13 are intentionally tuned a bit "off" as the first model, then they get "refined" into a better, more expensive product with a better tuning.
> 
> I'm not a fan of the PLA13 ootb at all. With a tip, cable, and EQ change, I'm really liking it. It sounds far more crisp and capable, almost like a completely new IEM. I'm getting excellent bass response, and the fixed mids and treble sound so much more natural and present.
> 
> I could easily see CCA releasing a "Pro" version of this with the adjusted tuning and a $20 price bump. Maybe I just spoiled the Q1 2023 plan?


Turns out it was the 2 week later plan without the price bump, and KZ instead.


----------



## bhazard

Did anyone else get the ZS10 Pro X yet? Mine arrived the other day and I'm just getting around to it.

Does it make my jaw drop like the original did years ago? No, too much competition that now exists which didn't back then.

Is it great for ~$38? Yep. Minimal frequency adjustments needed across the spectrum (slight subbass, mids, and treble tweaks). Tuning can be fully enjoyed without tweaks for a quality daily beater from my first impressions.

I'm wondering where this will sit with the PR1 releasing though? Enjoy both for ~$100 maybe?


----------



## independent

fastleo63 said:


> Wow, maybe a nice compensation for my inevitable hearing loss...
> I'm really curious to try them on my 60 years old ears, that cannot go anymore past 12-13 kHz (and with a lot of attuenuation from about 10 kHz).
> By the way, some days ago I read an interesting paper from Knowles that suggested a modification to Harman target response, aimed to accomodate the above hearing issues.
> The proposal is an equalization filter centered at 16 kHz, Q=4 and a boost from +12 dB (for young listeners, with no impairment) and adding about +3 dB for each 10 years of additional hearing age.
> ...


Hi, I know this is a sample of one (me)  I know my hearing frequency range is about average for my age. A bit less high frequency response in one ear. But anyway, I know I am treble sensitive and sound sensitive in general.

Just so you know, personally, upping the treble won't work for me. We don't need to equalise for our ears I reckon.


----------



## PotatoMEZE

The price difference is huge for ZS10Pro X . I bought it for $33. My friend bought it $27.   

There is one thing that surprises me because not many people are interested in the ZS10 Pro X. Probably because of the Planar trend or drama of KZ .


----------



## r31ya (Sep 28, 2022)

PotatoMEZE said:


> The price difference is huge for ZS10Pro X . I bought it for $33. My friend bought it $27.
> 
> There is one thing that surprises me because not many people are interested in the ZS10 Pro X. Probably because of the Planar trend or drama of KZ .


KZ didnt even bother to market it much. 
It seems they going to focus on marketing kz PR1 hifi. 

It seems KZ manage to keep kz fun sound sig in pr1 while dealing with pla13 complaints.

Still waiting for full reviews before pulling the trigger


----------



## independent (Sep 28, 2022)

On Al-xpress if I aren't logged in I get offered as new user KZ ZX10 pro x for NZ$22 (US$13?) and then I log in and the first price offered is NZ$71 but official store offers if for NZ$33 a few clicks down.

Really got that wrong. Had to check from Carpet's comment and I mistook the ZSN Pro x for ZX pro X 

As an aside. Got the EDA. Balanced is really a neat tiny little IEM. Didn't try the others but liked it.


----------



## Carpet

independent said:


> On Al-xpress if I aren't logged in I get offered as new user KZ ZX10 pro x for NZ$22 (US$13?) and then I log in and the first price offered is NZ$71 but official store offers if for NZ$33 a few clicks down.
> 
> As an aside. Got the EDA. Balanced is really a neat tiny little IEM. Didn't try the others but liked it.


Who offered it for NZ$33? Given the state of our dollar that's a great deal!


----------



## r31ya

independent said:


> On Al-xpress if I aren't logged in I get offered as new user KZ ZX10 pro x for NZ$22 (US$13?) and then I log in and the first price offered is NZ$71 but official store offers if for NZ$33 a few clicks down.
> 
> As an aside. Got the EDA. Balanced is really a neat tiny little IEM. Didn't try the others but liked it.


Eda balanced is awesome.
especially relative to the price. Lots of people actually wish that PR1 is tuned in the manner of Eda-Balance.


----------



## chinmie

r31ya said:


> Eda balanced is awesome.
> especially relative to the price. Lots of people actually wish that PR1 is tuned in the manner of Eda-Balance.



yup! i also happen to find a use for the least favorite one among the three (EDA bass). I'm using it as a gaming IEM for my playstation, and i like it the best compared to the balanced, hi res, and even the CRA..

so i guess I'm keeping all three of them, and might give away the CRA to family members instead


----------



## r31ya

chinmie said:


> yup! i also happen to find a use for the least favorite one among the three (EDA bass). I'm using it as a gaming IEM for my playstation, and i like it the best compared to the balanced, hi res, and even the CRA..
> 
> so i guess I'm keeping all three of them, and might give away the CRA to family members instead


EDA bass does have that feels of having that slightly overpower subwoofer.
its understandably great for gaming and some films


----------



## independent

Carpet said:


> Who offered it for NZ$33? Given the state of our dollar that's a great deal!


got it wrong. Misread the ZSN pro x for the ZS10 pro x. Didnt even know there was a ZSN pro x


----------



## TheVortex

Carpet said:


> I'd love to know how these compare to the Celeste.
> 
> Same price and discount at KZ Earphones Franchised Store but with free shipping!
> 
> Introductory coupons are valid until the end of next week.



I have the Celeste but I have not tried it yet as it only arrived today.


----------



## Taila

independent said:


> got it wrong. Misread the ZSN pro x for the ZS10 pro x. Didnt even know there was a ZSN pro x


Yeah, their naming can get confusing fast, but yes the ZAN Pro X has been for a few years, a number of people complained about about it being sibilant, seeing how even the ZSN Pro was already a bit sibilant.


----------



## Carpet

Taila said:


> Yeah, their naming can get confusing fast, but yes the ZAN Pro X has been for a few years, a number of people complained about about it being sibilant, seeing how even the ZSN Pro was already a bit sibilant.


I first heard the KZ ZSN Pro about a week ago. Five minutes was enough! Sibilant to hell and back.


----------



## evasb (Sep 29, 2022)

Makes no sense buying the "not Hi-Fi" PR1 if you already have the PLA13. According to KZ own graphs.


----------



## bhazard

ZS10 Pro X is tuned way better than the CCA PLA13. Let's see how it compares to the PR1 HiFi.


----------



## r31ya (Sep 29, 2022)

evasb said:


> Makes no sense buying the "not Hi-Fi" PR1 if you already have the PLA13. According to KZ own graphs.


Yeah the Standard PR1 (apparently named "balanced" by KZ) is basically PLA13 tuning in new housing.
not sure how different the sound will be,
---
the Hifi is the slightly different tuning seems to based on proposed pla13 "eq-fix"
per two outside measurement, they tuned down the subbass and alter the treble a bit.
apparently help the reveal more details but for good or bad, it also shows more of the planar timbre







---
first full review of PR1 Hifi


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> Yeah the Standard PR1 (apparently named "balanced" by KZ) is basically PLA13 tuning in new housing.
> not sure how different the sound will be,
> ---
> the Hifi is the slightly different tuning seems to based on proposed pla13 "eq-fix"
> ...




Good that they fix the "valley of trap"
A term that I use for "treble safe tuning" that dial back 5-7khz area but most of manufacturer overdone this made the 6khz details unheard or worse, gone.

Definitely better than PLA13 tuning, i don't even wish better bass shelf for this budget range but the upper treble extension is too much, that will be sounded too airy, smooth tizziness and you cant tame that with nylon / paper damper. The nicehck NX7 have similar problem with this upper treble extension that you can't tame with all the filters.
But if you want to mod it a little bit, high density imported foam will do the job nicely, put on the nozzle sideway so the foam don't block the nozzle.
I can see good potential for mod this.


----------



## Podster

PotatoMEZE said:


> The price difference is huge for ZS10Pro X . I bought it for $33. My friend bought it $27.
> 
> There is one thing that surprises me because not many people are interested in the ZS10 Pro X. Probably because of the Planar trend or drama of KZ .


Nice  

Not really sure just how many years back I purchased these two in one of my earliest AliEx 11/11 sales and for a grand total of $27 both the X-11 Player (never really figured out who manufactured it) and the KZ ED's still sound excellent especially for 27 bones


----------



## Mellowship

A selection of old KZ for weekend listening. Can you name them all?


----------



## r31ya (Oct 5, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> Good that they fix the "valley of trap"
> A term that I use for "treble safe tuning" that dial back 5-7khz area but most of manufacturer overdone this made the 6khz details unheard or worse, gone.
> 
> Definitely better than PLA13 tuning, i don't even wish better bass shelf for this budget range but the upper treble extension is too much, that will be sounded too airy, smooth tizziness and you cant tame that with nylon / paper damper. The nicehck NX7 have similar problem with this upper treble extension that you can't tame with all the filters.
> ...


Yeah, It seems the tuning still not quite "there" but the Planar driver itself seems to be very good.
several people already express interest on Modding it.

Funny thing really, apparently the driver is a true Planar and seems to be much more capable than the Planar-like DD Gumiho uses. 
But Gumiho deemed to have "better" tuning (and box), so Gumiho ended getting the better presses.


---
KZ PR1 innard, courtesy of HiFri


----------



## PotatoMEZE (Oct 5, 2022)

Again for sure , after both were burned-in for 100 hours.
I would stay with CCA PLA13 than Tangzu Zetian Wu .
Tangzu Zetian Wu has more planar timbre (decrease some after burned-in) and dry sound but it better on details.  
Not biased by the brand name . And waiting for KZ PR1 . *Thank!!! *


----------



## 4ceratops

PotatoMEZE said:


> Again for sure , after both were burned-in for 100 hours.
> I would stay with CCA PLA13 than Tangzu Zetian Wu .
> Tangzu Zetian Wu has more planar timbre (decrease some after burned-in) and dry sound but it better on details.
> Not biased by the brand name . And waiting for KZ PR1 . *Thank!!! *


Hi. I would like to know which version of KZ PR1 (Standard or Hifi) you have ordered. And I'd be even happier if you could share your impressions of the differences between the PLA13 and PR1 when you try them out 🖖


----------



## PotatoMEZE (Oct 5, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> Hi. I would like to know which version of KZ PR1 (Standard or Hifi) you have ordered. And I'd be even happier if you could share your impressions of the differences between the PLA13 and PR1 when you try them out 🖖


I ordered KZ PR1 Hifi but it hasn't arrived yet.  
I will share my first impressions when I got it. Might have compare it to DUNU Talos if it arrived.


----------



## freelancr (Oct 6, 2022)

Wowsers, I find the ESX is KZs bestest model I ever listened to. It immediately reminded of the Tipsy Tromso. Both have a 12mm DD. Could this be the same driver? Probably. This is one of these IEMs that I'd take on a forgotten island and be like, yeah ok this is fine I'm done with this collection hobby.   
@Redcarmoose, @Carpet FYI, as you are also Tromso fans.

Sorry Salnotes Zero 1st place on the budget Olymp is now taken by ESX.





Springtips are a great match with the ESX due to the long nozzle.


----------



## PhonoPhi

freelancr said:


> Wowsers, I find the ESX is KZs bestest model I ever listened to. It immediately reminded of the Tipsy Tromso. Both have a 12mm DD. Could this be the same driver? Probably. This is one of these IEMs that I'd take on a forgotten island and be like, yeah ok this is fine I'm done with this collection hobby.
> @Redcarmoose, @Carpet FYI, as you are also Tromso fans.
> 
> Sorry Salnotes Zero 1st place on the budget Olymp is now taken by ESX.
> ...


ESX are surely special, I prefer ESX to Aria, more engaging, enveloping and richly "thick".


----------



## r31ya

freelancr said:


> Wowsers, I find the ESX is KZs bestest model I ever listened to. It immediately reminded of the Tipsy Tromso. Both have a 12mm DD. Could this be the same driver? Probably. This is one of these IEMs that I'd take on a forgotten island and be like, yeah ok this is fine I'm done with this collection hobby.
> @Redcarmoose, @Carpet FYI, as you are also Tromso fans.
> 
> Sorry Salnotes Zero 1st place on the budget Olymp is now taken by ESX.
> ...


ESX with widebore eartips is pretty damn good. for the price? it slays.
but yeah, for me, that widebore is a must use. if not, the bass might be tad to overwhelming.


----------



## Carpet

freelancr said:


> Wowsers, I find the ESX is KZs bestest model I ever listened to. It immediately reminded of the Tipsy Tromso. Both have a 12mm DD. Could this be the same driver? Probably. This is one of these IEMs that I'd take on a forgotten island and be like, yeah ok this is fine I'm done with this collection hobby.
> @Redcarmoose, @Carpet FYI, as you are also Tromso fans.
> 
> Sorry Salnotes Zero 1st place on the budget Olymp is now taken by ESX.
> ...



Funnily enough I have a pair of these that I'm planning on keeping. There is certainly a place for warmer tuned IEMs. Maturity vs fun isn't as one sided an argument, as some people seen to present it. Sometimes enjoyment wins over picking apart defects!


----------



## deltecdpa

After 3 years of jogging, withstanding sweat and rain, my Zs-10 (not pro) gave up.
Great service, last twice longer than previous rugged,  far more expensive sport iem by Monster, Westone, V-moda with a comparable SQ. After waiting 2 years from buying, the Zsx replace them. Could not guess the Zs-10 last that long...


----------



## PotatoMEZE

Almost a year , I haven't taken it out from the box. Surprisingly, it still works.   *KZ ZAX






*


----------



## DynamicEars

PotatoMEZE said:


> Almost a year , I haven't taken it out from the box. Surprisingly, it still works.   *KZ ZAX
> 
> 
> *



And I wouldn't surprised take you that long to open it watching your crazy IEM collection and DAPs.


----------



## PotatoMEZE

DynamicEars said:


> And I wouldn't surprised take you that long to open it watching your crazy IEM collection and DAPs.


I think you probably have a lot of items too.   
I'm taking down some old stuff to sell it to *fund* the RS8 (I still don't know the exact price in my country and the release date).


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> ESX with widebore eartips is pretty damn good. for the price? it slays.
> but yeah, for me, that widebore is a must use. if not, the bass might be tad to overwhelming.


I use wide-bore tips for all IEMs.
I spent quite some time and money with different spinfits - they constrain and cut too much.

Also the main problem to me is that the more narrow/constraining the tip is - the more sensitive it is to the insertion depth, which is not the great variable to have, in my opinion.


----------



## KipNix

deltecdpa said:


> After 3 years of jogging, withstanding sweat and rain, my Zs-10 (not pro) gave up.
> Great service, last twice longer than previous rugged,  far more expensive sport iem by Monster, Westone, V-moda with a comparable SQ. After waiting 2 years from buying, the Zsx replace them. Could not guess the Zs-10 last that long...


That's very similar to my ZS3 (now discontinued). They went to the Great Soundstage In The Sky after a few years. I loved the fit where you couldn't tell you had them on. 
 They were replaced by EDX and Peace EQ.


----------



## DynamicEars

I took my long collecting dust KZ VX10 for short session yesterday, and still impressed with the sound. They are using 1 XUN DD, and 4 BAs. I mod them with foam and little bit EQ to clean up the bass shelf.
Really the KZ XUN driver is a treasure. Even more detailed CCA's driver can't match the XUN driver for bass performance, the bass that dig deep, with strong punch, very decent note weight if they were tuned right.

I still wish they gonna re use XUN driver, maybe with some BAs, but *well tuned.*

Seriously, if the KZ XUN driver is well tuned, they can match the great quality bass level, punch above their budget level easily


----------



## Carpet

DynamicEars said:


> I took my long collecting dust KZ VX10 for short session yesterday, and still impressed with the sound. They are using 1 XUN DD, and 4 BAs. I mod them with foam and little bit EQ to clean up the bass shelf.
> Really the KZ XUN driver is a treasure. Even more detailed CCA's driver can't match the XUN driver for bass performance, the bass that dig deep, with strong punch, very decent note weight if they were tuned right.
> 
> I still wish they gonna re use XUN driver, maybe with some BAs, but *well tuned.*
> ...


Is the Xun driver in the ZS10 Pro X? I don't recall reading specs on that DD.


----------



## DynamicEars

Carpet said:


> Is the Xun driver in the ZS10 Pro X? I don't recall reading specs on that DD.



Sadly no, 





This is the DD on ZS10 Pro X.

While KZ XUN driver is easy to identify with its shaped, like a cone




First one is introduced with KZ Z1 TWS (I have that but batteries are dead now, last only 1 minute after 1 hour charging), and used in several KZ products (cable and TWS) but I cant recall all. Some KZ that use XUN driver are Z1 (TWS), VX10 (TWS), KZ DQ6, KZ DQ6s, KZ ZAS.
Its good if we have documentation list of KZ with XUN drivers. The driver is really gem for bass lover


----------



## XerusKun

DynamicEars said:


> I took my long collecting dust KZ VX10 for short session yesterday, and still impressed with the sound. They are using 1 XUN DD, and 4 BAs. I mod them with foam and little bit EQ to clean up the bass shelf.
> Really the KZ XUN driver is a treasure. Even more detailed CCA's driver can't match the XUN driver for bass performance, the bass that dig deep, with strong punch, very decent note weight if they were tuned right.
> 
> I still wish they gonna re use XUN driver, maybe with some BAs, but *well tuned.*
> ...


Isn't KZ trying to improve and retune the XUN driver already, evident with CCA Lyra, which uses a revised smaller coned XUN driver? And tbh Lyra's bass digs pretty deep with strong punch without that muddiness like the old XUN DDs.

But yeah it is interesting to see this new XUN driver makes it way to their upcoming hybrids.


----------



## saldsald

XerusKun said:


> Isn't KZ trying to improve and retune the XUN driver already, evident with CCA Lyra, which uses a revised smaller coned XUN driver? And tbh Lyra's bass digs pretty deep with strong punch without that muddiness like the old XUN DDs.
> 
> But yeah it is interesting to see this new XUN driver makes it way to their upcoming hybrids.


Probably the design has reached its limitation. It was used in the ZAS already (I have it).


----------



## r31ya

XerusKun said:


> Isn't KZ trying to improve and retune the XUN driver already, evident with CCA Lyra, which uses a revised smaller coned XUN driver? And tbh Lyra's bass digs pretty deep with strong punch without that muddiness like the old XUN DDs.
> 
> But yeah it is interesting to see this new XUN driver makes it way to their upcoming hybrids.


They have one teased Hybrid that curiously missing





---
And yes, the old Xun is pretty decent but that long tails that muddied up the sound is prevalent.
haven't tried the new Xun with Lyra, others impression seems good.

But i wonder what DD they used on that stealth launched, ZS10ProX.
from the reviews trade blows with ST5 Berry DD (close but seems berry DD still comes up top)


----------



## DynamicEars

XerusKun said:


> Isn't KZ trying to improve and retune the XUN driver already, evident with CCA Lyra, which uses a revised smaller coned XUN driver? And tbh Lyra's bass digs pretty deep with strong punch without that muddiness like the old XUN DDs.
> 
> But yeah it is interesting to see this new XUN driver makes it way to their upcoming hybrids.


Holy... I must be missing out that Lyra use new XUN and you are right







saldsald said:


> Probably the design has reached its limitation. It was used in the ZAS already (I have it).


Yes, the only hybrid with XUN AFAIK is the ZAS, how is the bass performance on ZAS? they have big bass as per graph, and bit dark tuned trebles?


----------



## Elvis Costello

How does the ZS10 Pro X compare to the original ZS10 Pro?


----------



## PotatoMEZE (Oct 10, 2022)

Elvis Costello said:


> How does the ZS10 Pro X compare to the original ZS10 Pro?



Sorry I can't remember with *ZS10 Pro* much , it's been a long .... long time. Now I don't have it so can't able to A/B comparison.
But I do remember that the *ZS10 Pro X* has a slightly more satisfying bass and impact than the *ZS10 Pro*.
*ZS10 Pro , *treble appear sibilant (Older models come with cables that need to be replaced with better upgrades cables , will reduce some sibilant).
Upper mids don't satisfy me , timbre is not correct for me.
*Personally*, if anyone asks, I'll answer. I wouldn't go back to buy an older model. *ZS10 Pro X not perfect, but good for the price.  



*


----------



## chinmie

I'm curious how the older KZ like the ATE and ATR would fare with the newer KZ/CCA.. i bet the newer ones would be better, but still, it would be interesting to know.
to bad i don't have my older KZs anymore..


----------



## saldsald (Oct 10, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> Holy... I must be missing out that Lyra use new XUN and you are right
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The bass is pretty good and it is BIG but not muddy just not very good definition and I never find the treble dark either. The tuning is actually pretty nice but when you compare to more recent releases it's just not competitive enough as it lacks some clarity and definitions.


----------



## TechnoidFR

Carpet said:


> I'd love to know how these compare to the Celeste.
> 
> Same price and discount at KZ Earphones Franchised Store but with free shipping!
> 
> Introductory coupons are valid until the end of next week.


I begin to review it, but I think I prefer trn VX I think, need more listening to be sure.
Floaudio calla can be better neutral than hifi version


----------



## r31ya

PotatoMEZE said:


> Sorry I can't remember with *ZS10 Pro* much , it's been a long .... long time. Now I don't have it so can't able to A/B comparison.
> But I do remember that the *ZS10 Pro X* has a slightly more satisfying bass and impact than the *ZS10 Pro*.
> *ZS10 Pro , *treble appear sibilant (Older models come with cables that need to be replaced with better upgrades cables , will reduce some sibilant).
> Upper mids don't satisfy me , timbre is not correct for me.
> ...


hows the mid section?
i could buy one for cheap now, but yeah. very little info on this supposedly successor of what used to be one of the most praised KZ line.


----------



## PotatoMEZE

r31ya said:


> hows the mid section?
> i could buy one for cheap now, but yeah. very little info on this supposedly successor of what used to be one of the most praised KZ line.


*ZS10 Pro X ?* Bass and mids similar DQ6S. The DQ6S has slightly more bass and more rumble. Mids are similar, but the position of the vocals is slightly different.
Vocal a little forward and good tonality. Male and female vocals are equally good . Colorless , not sweet , not shouty.
Details of the instrument are good and lush. The depth (layering) is not outstanding. Soundstage has a distinctive width.
Burn-in is required to reduce the BA timbre that is quite obvious.
Think simply as DQ6S in hardened BA style. And I found the Pla13 to be easier to listen to than the ZS10 Pro X.


----------



## Carpet

TechnoidFR said:


> I begin to review it, but I think I prefer trn VX I think, need more listening to be sure.
> Floaudio calla can be better neutral than hifi version



Funnily enough I find the Calla a pretty enjoyable relaxed listen. Sure it has driver flex, but so does the Starsea, and I love those! 



PotatoMEZE said:


> *ZS10 Pro X ?* Bass and mids similar DQ6S. The DQ6S has slightly more bass and more rumble. Mids are similar, but the position of the vocals is slightly different.
> Vocal a little forward and good tonality. Male and female vocals are equally good . Colorless , not sweet , not shouty.
> Details of the instrument are good and lush. The depth (layering) is not outstanding. Soundstage has a distinctive width.
> Burn-in is required to reduce the BA timbre that is quite obvious.
> Think simply as DQ6S in hardened BA style. And I found the Pla13 to be easier to listen to than the ZS10 Pro X.



I like the PLA13, for those moments when the right amount of bass is MORE! Like old car stereo systems you could feel before you could hear, when they were still a couple of blocks away.

Bass-heads don't need to come out of the closet. The door gets shaken loose!


----------



## independent

Hi, it's been quiet lately here. I check in every few days or so.

Some, medium and long term observations. I've got a graveyard of IEMs, ASX, two pairs of ASF (last good pair got a wobbly connector now) two dead pairs of ZS7. I'm not rough but these are tiny things. A couple of things I really notice IRL world use. I got some AZ09 pros. And they are amazing, there is hiss. But the feeling of no wires is amazing. But the voice blasting in your ear "PAIRING" and "CONNEECTEED" every use is just plain annoying. Prior to those I bought in to nice cables, but I've really gotten in to using the EDA balanced with the plain thickish silver cable that came with a pair of KZs. Not the plaited ones. Anyway, they are reasonably thickish, not too tangly. But really small and go well with the EDA Balanced.

Here's the thing right. I'm doing some reasonably serious listening or monitoring for the stuff I work on but I guess %80 of the time I'm listening to non-critical stuff in way than less than optimum environments. Small well tuned IEMs with practical cables are really nice. Anyway, I'm sick of my good IEMs crapping out so keeping the good ones of proper listening sessions. I'm not going to hear the finer details provided by an all BA IEM when I'm walking through the badlands of suburban NZ anyway.


----------



## ChristianM

Hi, anybody have KZ PR1 , T3 Plus and salenotes zero to compare? Thanks


----------



## XerusKun (Oct 14, 2022)

ChristianM said:


> Hi, anybody have KZ PR1 , T3 Plus and salenotes zero to compare? Thanks


I have both Zero and PR1..techs (resolution, dynamics, detail retrieval, staging, layering) is better with PR1 just need to be wary if you are okay with V-shaped signature or not, but I found the tonality good, just a bit recessed with the mids... I don't know if SalZero is even comparable but to me SalZero sounds like a low res IEM when compared, artifical detail retrieval via treble boost, sterile and non dynamic..I don't even know why that IEM is even hyped, it sounds too clinical and digital ngl, I can't enjoy my music with them everything is too forward (except from the bass) and lifeless.


----------



## ChristianM (Oct 14, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> I have both Zero and PR1..techs (resolution, dynamics, detail retrieval, staging, layering) is better with PR1 just need to be wary if you are okay with V-shaped signature or not, but I found the tonality good, just a bit recessed with the mids... I don't know if SalZero is even comparable but to me SalZero sounds like a low res IEM when compared, artifical detail retrieval via treble boost, sterile and non dynamic..I don't even know why that IEM is even hyped, it sounds too clinical and digital ngl, I can't enjoy my music with them everything is too forward (except from the bass) and lifeless.


Thanks for reply, actually I had T3 Plus and I loved it but sold it due to comfort issues and I have salenotes zero and love the details but it's not as fun and warm sounding as T3 Plus and so I'm looking for a new IEM.
One more thing, is Fiio M3K enough for PR1?


----------



## 4ceratops

ChristianM said:


> Thanks for reply, actually I had T3 Plus and I loved it but sold it due to comfort issues and I have salenotes zero and love the details but it's not as fun and warm sounding as T3 Plus and so I'm looking for a new IEM.
> One more thing, is Fiio M3K enough for PR1?


I'll be happy to answer your last question. I pulled the M3K out of the box after about a year, hooked it up to the charger and tucked in a CCA PLA13 (twin of the KZ PR1 with the same driver and specs) and to my surprise, I have to say that the M3K feeds them just fine. With the volume set at 40/60, the sound was full and more than loud enough subjectively. I must admit that I didn't expect such a good synergy between them.


----------



## XerusKun

ChristianM said:


> Thanks for reply, actually I had T3 Plus and I loved it but sold it due to comfort issues and I have salenotes zero and love the details but it's not as fun and warm sounding as T3 Plus and so I'm looking for a new IEM.
> One more thing, is Fiio M3K enough for PR1?


They actually don't need that much power and I think your M3K can drive them fine (PR1 benefits alot though with good sources, expands the stage etc..). I usually drive them with a dongle sometimes.


----------



## 4ceratops

4ceratops said:


> I'll be happy to answer your last question. I pulled the M3K out of the box after about a year, hooked it up to the charger and tucked in a CCA PLA13 (twin of the KZ PR1 with the same driver and specs) and to my surprise, I have to say that the M3K feeds them just fine. With the volume set at 40/60, the sound was full and more than loud enough subjectively. I must admit that I didn't expect such a good synergy between them.


... and of course I recommend immediate replacement of the tips with something of better quality, for me Symbio W Peel and BGVP A07 have been the best with them.


----------



## Carpet

ChristianM said:


> Hi, anybody have KZ PR1 , T3 Plus and salenotes zero to compare? Thanks


I have the T3 Plus, Salnotes Zero and CCA PLA13 (which uses same driver as KZ PR1 and is tuned pretty similar to the black non-hifi version).

I've loaned the PLA13 out so this is from memory. PLA13 is very strong bass, but mainly sub bass and doesn't bleed into mids much. Mids are recessed being V tuning and treble is smooth rather than aggressive. If you want a bass-head planar it's not a terrible option, and sounds very good for classic rock. Not very versatile though unless you want to EQ. Worst cable and tips. I'd probably skip this one and spend a bit more if you want a planar.

T3 plus is also V shaped but more versatile and treble/upper mids are probably the most aggressive of the three. Best cable.

Salnotes Zero is a completely different tune, way better mids and more balanced tuning. Great for acoustic instruments and vocals. Not great for rock or metal as it's a little bass lite. Best value though, and it's really apples to oranges comparing it to the other two.


----------



## XerusKun

4ceratops said:


> ... and of course I recommend immediate replacement of the tips with something of better quality, for me Symbio W Peel and BGVP A07 have been the best with them.


Have you tried Radius Deep Mount tips with the PLA13?


----------



## Aparker2005

Our keyboardist used my ES3 this week for a show with his tips. He was absolutely floored at how good they were. He usually uses the ZS10 Pros but he preferred the sound and fit of the ES3.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise (Oct 14, 2022)

Carpet said:


> I have the T3 Plus, Salnotes Zero and CCA PLA13 (which uses same driver as KZ PR1 and is tuned pretty similar to the black non-hifi version).
> 
> I've loaned the PLA13 out so this is from memory. PLA13 is very strong bass, but mainly sub bass and doesn't bleed into mids much. Mids are recessed being V tuning and treble is smooth rather than aggressive. If you want a bass-head planar it's not a terrible option, and sounds very good for classic rock. Not very versatile though unless you want to EQ. Worst cable and tips. I'd probably skip this one and spend a bit more if you want a planar.
> 
> ...


If t3+ is a v then Harmon is a v...which is silly.

It's like 2 dB boost in midbass and 1 db cut in the mids.  Balanced as hell.  This forum thinks everything not ief neutral is v.


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> If t3+ is a v then Harmon is a v...which is silly.
> 
> It's like 2 dB boost in midbass and 1 db cut in the mids.  Balanced as hell.  This forum thinks everything not ief neutral is v.


V, U and Harmon are all variations of each other. What varies is how recessed the mids are and how well extended and prominent treble and bass are. The amount and placing of pina gain also varies of course as does the transition from bass into mids. T3 plus is more V shaped than Aria which fits closer to harmon. It's all just descriptive terms for a wiggly line on a graph (which is hard to measure and never tells the full story anyway). I consider descriptions of tunings to be subjective discussions!


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Carpet said:


> V, U and Harmon are all variations of each other. What varies is how recessed the mids are and how well extended and prominent treble and bass are. The amount and placing of pina gain also varies of course as does the transition from bass into mids. T3 plus is more V shaped than Aria which fits closer to harmon. It's all just descriptive terms for a wiggly line on a graph (which is hard to measure and never tells the full story anyway). I consider descriptions of tunings to be subjective discussions!


It just seems misleading, because to many people (myself included) a balanced sound is close to harmon.  Where neither lows, mids, nor highs stand out much.  To me a true V shape would mean (as you mentioned) emphasized lows and highs with a mid range that is significantly recessed.  

Just my interpretation I suppose, perhaps I am mistaken.


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> It just seems misleading, because to many people (myself included) a balanced sound is close to harmon.  Where neither lows, mids, nor highs stand out much.  To me a true V shape would mean (as you mentioned) emphasized lows and highs with a mid range that is significantly recessed.
> 
> Just my interpretation I suppose, perhaps I am mistaken.


I think that IEMs are more affected than headphones or external speakers, by the anatomy of our ear. Because the external ear is better at transmitting vocal frequencies to our eardrums. This makes sense, since any individual who was less able to hear and react to "watch out!", "Duck!" or "Run!", probably had a significantly reduced chance of contributing their genes to the next generation. IEMs bypass this so always need an adjusted tuning to provide a normal sound equivalent to an external sound source. Minor differences to anatomy and damage from previous sound exposure mean that what we hear is differing from individual to individual. That's without even invoking personal preference. I agree that Harmon is pretty close to neutral because it is an averaged preference over a large number of individuals. What confuses me is how the hell anyone can consider flat responses neutral, since their presentation to the eardrum is significantly different from an external sound source. Hence significantly coloured.

TL;DR:  Harmon = neutral (across the population). Small variations can sound significant to our ears. People hear and describe things differently. Opinions are inherently subjective, they vary and that's a good thing. 

YMMV as  always.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Carpet said:


> What confuses me is how the hell anyone can consider flat responses neutral, since their presentation to the eardrum is significantly different from an external sound source. Hence significantly coloured.
> 
> TL;DR:  Harmon = neutral (across the population). Small variations can sound significant to our ears. People hear and describe things differently. Opinions are inherently subjective, they vary and that's a good thing.
> 
> YMMV as  always.


That always confuses the hell out of me.  I see so many people refer to flat as neutral and wonder in what world that sounds neutral to them.  Iv always associated neutral with balanced, perhaps they dont...Semantics and all.


----------



## TechnoidFR

I finally understand one thing with kz pr1 hifi... It's a monitoring iem

Natural timbre and neutral signature, but Uber 12/15khz peak. It go out all little detail, which normally behind the rest of instruments. For me it's sometimes incoherent, cymbals is very too much ahead comparing to over instruments.

Adding this, it creates very "aerial" sound and great instruments separation.

But very very fatiguing, not really fit for daily use..


----------



## TechnoidFR

Carpet said:


> Funnily enough I find the Calla a pretty enjoyable relaxed listen. Sure it has driver flex, but so does the Starsea, and I love those!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Calla IS good ! Relax neutral sound but don't try to have big extension, more sweet


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 17, 2022)

Got my PR1 HiFi recently.




Very happy with it so far, amazing what KZ can do for ~$55.

For those who doubted it - a full metal shell (aluminum alloy,  very light), 3 or 4 pieces, seams are very well integrated. The grills do not resonate that much with me aesthetically, but they are functional (the air can be blown through with some reasonable resistance), so it is a semi-open IEM.
Very comfortable fit for me, and just a touch small to provide very good isolation.

Nice fast response. Love it. Close to BAs with more perceived coherence.
For the overall sound impression -  the treble extensiion is there, while bass remains fairly dominant - it works very well for me, here I am with KZ tuning (I do use wide-bore tips).

I listened largely to solo violin - since it is very much my reference point in my IEM quest-  (Milstein) and cello (Fournier) - very nice  A bit tubby (but not DD-like tubby), if to nitpick.

For the solo string music, Gumiho did not work as well comparatively, AS16 pro felt less coherent, but traded blows in some aspects - resolution and less cross-coupling.
My modified ASX are still a winner for me for they have everything in spades.

As for the comparison with Dioko (the only other single planar I have), the lean tuning of which I learned to appreciate: the difference with KZ is again along electronic (Dioko) and acoustic (KZ)  music. I do not feel that KZ is much less in resolution, but being richer in mid bass they do feel warmer (a bit like my beloved AS10 but void of BA-like chatacter that some do not like that much) and more intimate.

After this planar experience - no more DDs for me at all, only BAs and planars (and some good piezo implementation) 

If to further nitpick on KZ, the resistance measured is 14.0 and 14.8 Ohm on two sides - more than 5% difference that can be potentially noticeable (I could not hear it at all to be fair).

The sensitivity is noticeably lower than most other KZ IEMs; and "96.89 +/- 3 dB" (!) - you need to learn your significant figures, KZ!


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> Got my PR1 HiFi recently.
> 
> Very happy with it so far, amazing what KZ can do for ~$55.
> 
> ...



how do you describe the difference in bass, mids, and treble quantity between the PR1 and AS16 Pro? also from what you described the AS16 Pro has more resolution/detail? TYIA


----------



## PhonoPhi

chinmie said:


> how do you describe the difference in bass, mids, and treble quantity between the PR1 and AS16 Pro? also from what you described the AS16 Pro has more resolution/detail? TYIA


PR1- HiFi are more coherent and warmer, while still fast responding and well resolving by their planar nature.
AS16 are more resolving of specific details  in bass, mids and low treble, while it is not as extended in high treble as PR1- HiFi.

The bass on AS16 pro is still lean (even without 18-Ohm impedance adapter that makes AS16 pro sound more lean and close to original AS16), given the old KZ bass BAs.
(New black/gold KZ bass BAs (ASX, ASF) are much more ample being more dampened and Sonion-like).
AS16 pro offer noticeably less cross-coupling - e.g. when violin is playing, the bass is not engaged much, while with PR1- HiFi the bass undertones are there for a different (likeable but less truthful) timbre. The bass BAs in AS16 pro are marvels to my ears (acoustic music and classical especially).
AS16 pro have a noticeable BA character, more granularity than "metallicity"  since the treble BAs are a new generation.

Overall, if one is OK with mid bass and/or plan to equalize - PR1- HiFi offer a more universal choice for a good all-arounder. If mid bass is totally not your thing - Dioko is exemplary in sub-bass over mid-bass emphasis.

I do love BAs, so for me AS16 pro and PR1- HiFi are about equal and quite complimentary. Gumiho does not feel that competitive in acoustic music, but has its beauty of ethereal rendering that shines more for electronic music.

That is my semi-coherent story on 3 great recent ~$50 IEMs


----------



## chinmie

PhonoPhi said:


> PR1- HiFi are more coherent and warmer, while still fast responding and well resolving by their planar nature.
> AS16 are more resolving of specific details  in bass, mids and low treble, while it is not as extended in high treble as PR1- HiFi.
> 
> The bass on AS16 pro is still lean (even without 18-Ohm impedance adapter that makes AS16 pro sound more lean and close to original AS16), given the old KZ bass BAs.
> ...



thanks for the detailed impression! 
I also am a sucker for all BA IEMs, and i also like these newer planar drivers that' are coming out lately. from a few that i tried (timeless, hook X, S12, P1 Max, Stellaris), i like them all, except maybe that last one. 

The AS16 Pro is impressive enough that few of my friends immediately order one after trying it. we tested it also alongside the U12t, and i would say that if you need similar feel IEM to the U12t at lower SQ and much cheaper price, especially for working musicians, i strongly recommend the AS16 Pro. the only concern that i could find would be the size, as it is a bit big, it might be uncomfortable for smaller ears. 

one more thing i would ask, does the PR1 hard to drive? I'm thinking of using it wireless with AS09 Pro


----------



## Carpet

chinmie said:


> thanks for the detailed impression!
> I also am a sucker for all BA IEMs, and i also like these newer planar drivers that' are coming out lately. from a few that i tried (timeless, hook X, S12, P1 Max, Stellaris), i like them all, except maybe that last one.
> 
> The AS16 Pro is impressive enough that few of my friends immediately order one after trying it. we tested it also alongside the U12t, and i would say that if you need similar feel IEM to the U12t at lower SQ and much cheaper price, especially for working musicians, i strongly recommend the AS16 Pro. the only concern that i could find would be the size, as it is a bit big, it might be uncomfortable for smaller ears.
> ...


I have the PLA13 which uses the same driver as the PR1. It's easier to drive than P1 Max, but not by a huge margin.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 17, 2022)

chinmie said:


> thanks for the detailed impression!
> I also am a sucker for all BA IEMs, and i also like these newer planar drivers that' are coming out lately. from a few that i tried (timeless, hook X, S12, P1 Max, Stellaris), i like them all, except maybe that last one.
> 
> The AS16 Pro is impressive enough that few of my friends immediately order one after trying it. we tested it also alongside the U12t, and i would say that if you need similar feel IEM to the U12t at lower SQ and much cheaper price, especially for working musicians, i strongly recommend the AS16 Pro. the only concern that i could find would be the size, as it is a bit big, it might be uncomfortable for smaller ears.
> ...


My ears adopted to AS16 shell  starting with AS10 (I had them all all-BA pokemons of KZ and CCA in that shell), it gives a very good seal.
PR1 shell is quite a bit smaller and a nice ergonomic shape.

The PR1 sensitivity is noticeably low.
I have tried only E44 and BHD dacs so far, and it does not feel power-hungry in terms of scaling with the sources, like Gumiho, but PR1 will be more demanding on wireless, at least taking more power from the small batteries (my wireless solution are only BTR3K and BTR5).


----------



## XerusKun

KZ be doing a Fatfreq Maestro move.


----------



## Bret Halford

XerusKun said:


> KZ be doing a Fatfreq Maestro move.


Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.


----------



## Carpet

Bret Halford said:


> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.


Not a good defense  in counterfeiting prosecutions!


----------



## 4ceratops

PhonoPhi said:


> Got my PR1 HiFi recently.
> 
> Very happy with it so far, amazing what KZ can do for ~$55.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the impressions, looks like you'll have a lot of fun with them. Just to clarify, I would mention that their body is not all aluminum. The bottom is electroplated plastic, which the metal seems to mimic very successfully.


----------



## r31ya

4ceratops said:


> Thanks for the impressions, looks like you'll have a lot of fun with them. Just to clarify, I would mention that their body is not all aluminum. The bottom is electroplated plastic, which the metal seems to mimic very successfully.


Yup, the faceplate is aluminium, the bottom is aluminium coated/plated resin.
apparently it'll give you the metalic premium handling feels but still light like resin shell.


----------



## 4ceratops

chinmie said:


> One more thing i would ask, does the PR1 hard to drive? I'm thinking of using it wireless with AS09 Pro.


I just tried the CCA Pla13 (same parameters) with the KZ AZ09 Pro and to my surprise the support in high gain mode (3 clix on left) is quite sufficient and good sound synergy. It will naturally have an effect on battery life, but low gain mode is really very weak in the case of the Pla13 and high gain seems to be a necessity. I expect a very similar or the same result when using PR1.


----------



## evasb (Oct 18, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> KZ be doing a Fatfreq Maestro move.


I don't know why KZ refuses to just follow the Harman target (sub-bass boost) and keep trowing these big bass iems over and over again.

I'm already out of hope that they will do just one balanced IEM in their numerous releases.


----------



## r31ya (Oct 18, 2022)

evasb said:


> I don't know why KZ refuses to just follow the Harman target (sub-bass boost) and keep trowing these big bass iems over and over again.
> 
> I'm already out of hope that they will do just one balanced IEM in their numerous releases.


Their tuners love that bass, so much so that  in disregard of whatever driver they use, they will try to replicate that big DD bass.
Hence AST tuning, PLA13 tuning...
---
CCA HM20 have 6 driver handling mids, 1 each for bass and treble... 
Hopefully the Big bass didn't cloud those 6 mids BA


----------



## PhonoPhi

4ceratops said:


> Thanks for the impressions, looks like you'll have a lot of fun with them. Just to clarify, I would mention that their body is not all aluminum. The bottom is electroplated plastic, which the metal seems to mimic very successfully.


I did have a lot of fun, indeed, thank you!

My pair is made all of aluminum (and not likely that KZ would switch the shell material).
So for my pair, I first thought it is high-grade duralumun, but more likely Al-Mg-Mn - very thin and strong (just a guess, no elemental analysis). The top plate is thicker, so that could make some wrong impressions.

For the proof of being all-metal:
First, the simple knocking test - hard response, not ofplastics for all parts - that is what I did to check first.
Second, the conductivity is below 0.5 Ohm across all three parts.
Finally, the scratch test, to totally eliminate any doubts and misconcepts -  it is all metal:


----------



## XerusKun

evasb said:


> I don't know why KZ refuses to just follow the Harman target (sub-bass boost) and keep trowing these big bass iems over and over again.
> 
> I'm already out of hope that they will do just one balanced IEM in their numerous releases.


Didn't they already attempted a bass subdued tuning with the EDA Hires and Lyra..I mean they are pretty inline with Harman Target tbh, just 5dB off at the midbass area.




Plus HM20 is still in the realm of subbass boosted Harman, tbh it kinda looks like MH755. They have the same midbass quantity but with more linear upper treble with the HM20.




But yeah I hope they attempt a Heart Mirror like tuning in the future..maybe in their constellation series?


----------



## Carpet

XerusKun said:


> Didn't they already attempted a bass subdued tuning with the EDA Hires and Lyra..I mean they are pretty inline with Harman Target tbh, just 5dB off at the midbass area.
> 
> 
> Plus HM20 is still in the realm of subbass boosted Harman, tbh it kinda looks like MH755. They have the same midbass quantity but with more linear upper treble with the HM20.
> ...


The ZEX PRO (CRN) was more neutral than their usual "V". But it got kind of buried in the non-functioning driver drama.


----------



## PhonoPhi

XerusKun said:


> Didn't they already attempted a bass subdued tuning with the EDA Hires and Lyra..I mean they are pretty inline with Harman Target tbh, just 5dB off at the midbass area.
> 
> 
> Plus HM20 is still in the realm of subbass boosted Harman, tbh it kinda looks like MH755. They have the same midbass quantity but with more linear upper treble with the HM20.
> ...


CRA (original) was most Heart-Mirror-like: sub-bass over mid-bass and a lot of extended treble.


----------



## 4ceratops

PhonoPhi said:


> I did have a lot of fun, indeed, thank you!
> 
> My pair is made all of aluminum (and not likely that KZ would switch the shell material).
> So for my pair, I first thought it is high-grade duralumun, but more likely Al-Mg-Mn - very thin and strong (just a guess, no elemental analysis). The top plate is thicker, so that could make some wrong impressions.
> ...


Don't ruin them! Good guys don't do that! 😃


----------



## solsoul

DynamicEars said:


> Anyone know newer KZ TWS that using XUN driver? My KZ Z1 are at the corner of their lives. The left unit barely can be charged anymore. So Sad since the driver is really good, and after mod, beating most TWS out there (in terms of sound only, not tech side). I don't want to buy Z1 anymore since they are quite old by now (avoiding batt degraded problem even new unit), and prefer better specs and batt life. XUN is a must, additional drivers not a problem. Heard that KZ Z1 pro is no longer using XUN. Anyone can help?
> Thanks in advance


The kz z1 pro has the same battery problem


----------



## independent

solsoul said:


> The kz z1 pro has the same battery problem


I store my AS09 pros upside down in the case with a half charge with the nozzles poking out. There are actually three cells in this devices, one in each ear and one in the charging box.

Fastest way to kill a Lithium battery is to run it flat, the second fastest way is to keep charging it to full or keep it at a full charge. Lithium cells prefer to be at between %40-80, if kept at that State of Charge (SoC) they can last a very long time. I don't trust these makers to build in safe charging profiles. I assume they will try and maximise duration over item longevity.


----------



## solsoul

independent said:


> I store my AS09 pros upside down in the case with a half charge with the nozzles poking out. There are actually three cells in this devices, one in each ear and one in the charging box.
> 
> Fastest way to kill a Lithium battery is to run it flat, the second fastest way is to keep charging it to full or keep it at a full charge. Lithium cells prefer to be at between %40-80, if kept at that State of Charge (SoC) they can last a very long time. I don't trust these makers to build in safe charging profiles. I assume they will try and maximise duration over item longevity.


I dont know if keeping 40-80% battery is good.
I think lithium battery is a good invention and  a disappointment at the same time.

Hope they do some research about something better than lithium. 

But i have some buds, and they are still good after 2 years of use.


----------



## XerusKun

DynamicEars said:


> Anyone know newer KZ TWS that using XUN driver? My KZ Z1 are at the corner of their lives. The left unit barely can be charged anymore. So Sad since the driver is really good, and after mod, beating most TWS out there (in terms of sound only, not tech side). I don't want to buy Z1 anymore since they are quite old by now (avoiding batt degraded problem even new unit), and prefer better specs and batt life. XUN is a must, additional drivers not a problem. Heard that KZ Z1 pro is no longer using XUN. Anyone can help?
> Thanks in advance


How about the VXS? I'm not sure if they are using the XUN driver with that TWS, but the bass response has the same characteristic as my Lyra which uses a refined XUN driver..

VXS is also the first time that KZ did a tucked bass response..Best bass response I heard so far from KZ out of 12 KZ IEMs I have.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

PhonoPhi said:


> fast responding and well resolving by their planar nature.


What does that mean to you exactly?


----------



## DynamicEars

XerusKun said:


> How about the VXS? I'm not sure if they are using the XUN driver with that TWS, but the bass response has the same characteristic as my Lyra which uses a refined XUN driver..
> 
> VXS is also the first time that KZ did a tucked bass response..Best bass response I heard so far from KZ out of 12 KZ IEMs I have.


Not sure if VXS is using XUN or maybe the 2nd gen XUN because i didn't notice they made 2nd gen XUN before (and now 3rd gen XUN with the HM20), but yes indeed the bass shelf is nice although not perfect (good flat to 200hz but need gentler slope to 80hz)

Thanks i will put in my consideration for the TWS option (currently still using VX10 with mod and EQ)


----------



## ephrank (Oct 18, 2022)

Looking for comments from people who own both original CRA and PR1 HiFi.

Is it true that both share similar FR? Do you think PR1 is worth it for CRA owners?

EDIT - PR1 Hifi Edition to be specific


----------



## Carpet

ephrank said:


> Looking for comments from people who own both original CRA and PR1 HiFi.
> 
> Is it true that both share similar FR? Do you think PR1 is worth it for CRA owners?
> 
> EDIT - PR1 Hifi Edition to be specific


PLA13 works as an unashamedly bass-head IEM and PR1 uses the same driver. Graphs I've seen are pretty much identical except for the bass. Dropping bass with EQ is not going to push the same driver beyond it's capability to respond. Put the money towards a better planar rather than a side-grade. P1 Max is a much more neutral tuning and about $100 now. Who knows what will be on sale during 11/11. Given the rate of planar release, there are a lot of competing new models, and that means overstocked IEMs with retailers.


----------



## XerusKun

ephrank said:


> Looking for comments from people who own both original CRA and PR1 HiFi.
> 
> Is it true that both share similar FR? Do you think PR1 is worth it for CRA owners?
> 
> EDIT - PR1 Hifi Edition to be specific


I have both CRA and PR1 Balanced (which is just PR1 Hifi but 2db additional subbass), nope they are different..PR1 sounds meatier, full, less metallic, less harsh in the upper treble.. CRA sounds too gritty in the treble and there's no weight to the bass (just all rumble).


----------



## ChristianM

Is KZ PR1 HiFi suitable for Rock, metal (death, black, Nu, industrial etc.)?
If not then any upgrade cable make it suitable for these genres?


----------



## PhonoPhi

4ceratops said:


> Don't ruin them! Good guys don't do that! 😃


It is a hard aluminum alloy shell 

On another note, have you tried AST with a 30-Ohm adaptor?
The transformation from a bass-overwhelming, treble-shy to a well-balanced IEM is amazing.
Again, my theory is that similar to that with AS16 pro "KZ tuners" dialed IEM impedance of 30 Ohm as a source impedance.


ephrank said:


> Looking for comments from people who own both original CRA and PR1 HiFi.
> 
> Is it true that both share similar FR? Do you think PR1 is worth it for CRA owners?
> 
> EDIT - PR1 Hifi Edition to be specific


I first thought you are asking about the comparison with the CCA planar.
CRA are amazing IEM for $12 with its sub-bass focus and rich extended treble.

I hear PR1 HiFi as quite mid-bass focused (sub-bass is there but there is rnough mid-bass to dominate to my ears), thicker, rich, with some peaks in upper treble.
So quite different to CRA but at 4+ times the cost, the choice to upgrade would be a subjective personal decision.


----------



## 4ceratops

PhonoPhi said:


> On another note, have you tried AST with a 30-Ohm adaptor?
> The transformation from a bass-overwhelming, treble-shy to a well-balanced IEM is amazing.
> Again, my theory is that similar to that with AS16 pro "KZ tuners" dialed IEM impedance of 30 Ohm as a source impedance.


Yes, I have tried AST with both 18 and 30 Ohm adapters and I'm sorry to say that AST is not my cup of coffee at all. The AS16 PRO on the other hand is a very good friend of mine. With the KZ AZ09 PRO I have made the ultimate TWS with a kit price under 100€. The synergy of the AS16 PRO with the aforementioned BT adapter is excellent in my opinion, really worth noting. Their combination is in my opinion even more sonically beneficial than cable + 30 Ohm adapter. The only regret is that the AZ09 PRO handles the maximum APT-X Adaptive. Have a nice day everyone.


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## TechnoidFR

I have a final opinion : it's a good monitoring iem ! A great powerful monitoring iem 

You can see my review, normally you've subtitles


----------



## lushmelody

XerusKun said:


> I have both CRA and PR1 Balanced (which is just PR1 Hifi but 2db additional subbass), nope they are different..PR1 sounds meatier, full, less metallic, less harsh in the upper treble.. CRA sounds too gritty in the treble and there's no weight to the bass (just all rumble).


Do you find difficult to power the PR1? I'm tempting to buy it and dunno if Abigail balanced is enough


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 19, 2022)

TechnoidFR said:


> I have a final opinion : it's a good monitoring iem ! A great powerful monitoring iem
> 
> You can see my review, normally you've subtitles



Monitoring what exactly?
(To my ears, PR1 HiFi are good old KZ V with a very good responsive driver)
Have you heard Dioko?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 19, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> Do you find difficult to power the PR1? I'm tempting to buy it and dunno if Abigail balanced is enough


While Apple dongle is at 90% (noisy environment, kids playing piano) with my S10 phone.
 CX31993 pro (3.5 mm) does well in terms of power (~70%), it is brighter than neutral that works OK with PR1 not loosing much relative to Tempotec E44.
My understanding is that Abigail is a refined version of CX31993 pro.

P. S. i was also trying JA21 - more bass-heavy, does not synergise that well with PR1, but reasonably enough power (80%).


----------



## lushmelody

PhonoPhi said:


> While Apple dongle is at 90% (noisy environment, kids playing piano) with my S10 phone.
> CX31993 pro (3.5 mm) does well in terms of power (~70%), it is brighter than neutral that works OK with PR1 not loosing much relative to Tempotec E44.
> My understanding is that Abigail is a refined version of CX31993 pro.
> 
> P. S. i was also trying JA21 - more bass-heavy, does not synergise that well with PR1, but reasonably enough power (80%).


Thanks! And great! Not only it is enough but also there is synergy


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## r31ya (Oct 19, 2022)

> _"I wish KZ have better shells and these vents isn't decorative, i should be awesome to see a semi openback iem from KZ/CCA"_
> - Several people in KZ discord -



_"Wish no more, we just put a big hole in our IEM."_
KZ/CCA






This is not quite what we ask, but ok...


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> _"Wish no more, we just put a big hole in our IEM."_
> KZ/CCA
> 
> 
> ...


Design based on a wind tunnel. So what does it sound like?

My guess is "Woosh"!


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## independent (Oct 20, 2022)

4ceratops said:


> Yes, I have tried AST with both 18 and 30 Ohm adapters and I'm sorry to say that AST is not my cup of coffee at all. The AS16 PRO on the other hand is a very good friend of mine. With the KZ AZ09 PRO I have made the ultimate TWS with a kit price under 100€. The synergy of the AS16 PRO with the aforementioned BT adapter is excellent in my opinion, really worth noting. Their combination is in my opinion even more sonically beneficial than cable + 30 Ohm adapter. The only regret is that the AZ09 PRO handles the maximum APT-X Adaptive. Have a nice day everyone.


Tried out the AZ09 Pro and AS16 Pro on your suggestion. Really nice! Lots of detail in that wireless receiver and just works great. I found the AS16 Pro thin on my 100ohm output device but the ASF really shines there.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> Design based on a wind tunnel. So what does it sound like?
> 
> My guess is "Woosh"!


"as you move, you will hear the wind rustling~"


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> "as you move, you will hear the wind rustling~"


So would that make these, or the Raptgo Leaf, a better present for someone named Russell?


----------



## TechnoidFR

PhonoPhi said:


> Monitoring what exactly?
> (To my ears, PR1 HiFi are good old KZ V with a very good responsive driver)
> Have you heard Dioko?



Monitoring for mixing. To be more clear, they add a 10/20khz very elevated range, it add lot of clarity, but all instruments which hit in this part will be very very more present that over. Adding incoherency but permit to hear some "hiding" sound which is normally behind the rest, just to support the melody 

2 example was noticeable on

Feel Good - Gorillaz: a guitar which is very discreet but here, clearly more ahead, and the noise of the micro. We hear completely the beginning of this sample and the end. We don't notice specially in normal time

For Starship troopers lovers
https://deezer.page.link/Av1VP6UHt3JhtRTJ6
( Beginning 0:45 )
The drum is normally to add the military part of the music but stay behind oh the rest, with pr1 hifi they are completely ahead and becomes the principal melody


I don't try the dioko, but have lot of iem to compare


----------



## ScrofulousBinturong

ChristianM said:


> Is KZ PR1 HiFi suitable for Rock, metal (death, black, Nu, industrial etc.)?
> If not then any upgrade cable make it suitable for these genres?


A cable upgrade doesn't change anything to an IEM's sound.


----------



## Carpet

ScrofulousBinturong said:


> A cable upgrade doesn't change anything to an IEM's sound.


Oh boy! Let me grab some popcorn!


----------



## DynamicEars

Carpet said:


> Oh boy! Let me grab some popcorn!


For watching same movie again?


----------



## jananan78

DynamicEars said:


> For watching same movie again?


i am tying up my hands so i don't type anything.


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> _"Wish no more, we just put a big hole in our IEM."_
> KZ/CCA
> 
> 
> ...



It looks like a toiletbowl.

I hope the wind noise doesn't flow in and drown out music, when used outdoors.


----------



## ephrank

Carpet said:


> P1 Max is a much more neutral tuning and about $100 now. Who knows what will be on sale during 11/11. Given the rate of planar release, there are a lot of competing new models, and that means overstocked IEMs with retailers.


Funny that both P1 Max and PR1 are being discounted on AE. Pre- 11/11 sale, perhaps?


----------



## bhazard

Got the PR1 Hifi in.
Those expecting a better tuning than the PLA13, yes it does have a better tuning, but...
That treble is just too damn spicy. I agree with BGGAR, upper mids and above are too boosted and unnatural.
Like the PLA13, I also think EQ will turn these into a value monsters, as it just needs a few cuts in the upper mids and treble, no boost anywhere.
Still not a grab and go set like I was hoping for, but I don't know of any other Planar that hits this level of performance at the ~$55 sale price.


----------



## r31ya

bhazard said:


> Got the PR1 Hifi in.
> Those expecting a better tuning than the PLA13, yes it does have a better tuning, but...
> That treble is just too damn spicy. I agree with BGGAR, upper mids and above are too boosted and unnatural.
> Like the PLA13, I also think EQ will turn these into a value monsters, as it just needs a few cuts in the upper mids and treble, no boost anywhere.
> Still not a grab and go set like I was hoping for, but I don't know of any other Planar that hits this level of performance at the ~$55 sale price.


Yeah, other reviewers that i follow said something similar.
Great and highly capable Planar driver considering the price. unfortunately the tuning is not quite there


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 23, 2022)

*https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/the-new-kz-zs10-pro-x-universal-iem.26128/reviews#review-29430

$39.00
https://www.linsoul.com/products/kz-zs10-pro-x?variant=43295301566681*


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## Carpet

I don't recall posting any further feedback on SuperTFZ Force1 so...

Given that I haven't heard any TFZ products before I almost expected a very warm and bassy IEM, these aren't that.

Lifted sub-bass, so has a bit of impact, mid-bass not excessive and doesn't bleed into mids. Just a hint of warmth but sound is still transparent (oops sounds like trans-parent, how easily offended are our censors?). Mids aren't recessed to hell, or in your face. Treble extension is good and it's not peaky or offensive. Stage and separation are good too. Tone is natural. Included tips work fine (I used the large narrow bores). I can only find four things to fault

1/ Packaging is silly, they could have left out the sealed part, that makes up most of the volume.
2/ Bag is cute but won't fit a more substantial cable. They could easily have included a zip up semi-rigid case (in the largely empty packaging).
3/ Cutsie plug and splitter are an "interesting" design choice and not exactly practical. Too prone to catching on clothing etc.
4/ Fairly deep shell, so not great for side sleeping.

You may have noted that none of those faults are with the sound. I'd rate them ahead of Aria, T3 plus, T4 or KAI on sound but not on included accessories. They certainly give GD3C, TRI Meteor and Olina a run for their money too. These deserve more attention!

YMMV.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> I don't recall posting any further feedback on SuperTFZ Force1 so...
> 
> Given that I haven't heard any TFZ products before I almost expected a very warm and bassy IEM, these aren't that.
> 
> ...


Love the fact that TFZ got things together again.
Seems that Force1 and Force King have very good review.
most of the complain is packaging and lack of visibility, which is a much better issue that wonky sq or bad tuning.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 24, 2022)

The Force 1 is a landmark release, in my eyes. So fun and complete! It’s inspiring to think where TFZ will go next? Such finesse in build, and tune! 


r31ya said:


> Love the fact that TFZ got things together again.
> Seems that Force1 and Force King have very good review.
> most of the complain is packaging and lack of visibility, which is a much better issue that wonky sq or bad tuning.


----------



## r31ya

Redcarmoose said:


> The Force 1 is a landmark release, in my eyes. So fun and complete! It’s inspiring to think where TFZ will go next? Such finesse in build, and tune!


When everyone goes crazy with drivers count, TFZ focuses on retuning, refining, updating that one DD they have.
So yeah, when 1 DD trends comes, they are very much prepared.

I wish they have better marketing to deal with visibility issue tough, they barely taking care of their old website and now its gone.
That also, old TFZ used to comes to my place with significant discounts, so yeah its awesome. SuperTFZ however is still haven't quite there.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I have learned of 4 or 5 people who truly enjoy the Force 1............though only two of those are not reviewers, still people who purchased their own Force 1 with their own money.................and love it...it's start, there must be quite a number more, they are just not on Head-Fi. 



r31ya said:


> When everyone goes crazy with drivers count, TFZ focuses on retuning, refining, updating that one DD they have.
> So yeah, when 1 DD trends comes, they are very much prepared.
> 
> I wish they have better marketing to deal with visibility issue tough, they barely taking care of their old website and now its gone.
> That also, old TFZ used to comes to my place with significant discounts, so yeah its awesome. SuperTFZ however is still haven't quite there.


----------



## baskingshark

r31ya said:


> When everyone goes crazy with drivers count, TFZ focuses on retuning, refining, updating that one DD they have.
> So yeah, when 1 DD trends comes, they are very much prepared.
> 
> I wish they have better marketing to deal with visibility issue tough, they barely taking care of their old website and now its gone.
> That also, old TFZ used to comes to my place with significant discounts, so yeah its awesome. SuperTFZ however is still haven't quite there.



The problem with TFZ is that majority of their IEMs are V shaped basshead one trick ponies. And a lot of their single DDs were north of $100 USD, which is an extremely tough market, with lots of other well-regarded big boys to compete against.

TFZ also has a very weird naming convention for their IEMs. For example, my love 2019 edition, my love ltd, my love 2, my love 3. There's TFZ king pro, king ltd, exclusive king edition, king 2, king 3, TFZ No. 3 19th edition etc. Consumers get confused with their various releases.


----------



## Redcarmoose

baskingshark said:


> The problem with TFZ is that majority of their IEMs are V shaped basshead one trick ponies. And a lot of their single DDs were north of $100 USD, which is an extremely tough market, with lots of other well-regarded big boys to compete against.
> 
> TFZ also has a very weird naming convention for their IEMs. For example, my love 2019 edition, my love ltd, my love 2, my love 3. There's TFZ king pro, king ltd, exclusive king edition, king 2, king 3, TFZ No. 3 19th edition etc. Consumers get confused with their various releases.


I feel your describing the old TFZ.....the one that's not pertinent any longer?



5.00 star(s) 
Sep 22, 2022
Steaky-wakey............no this isn't a review of a Steakhouse
Pros: A fun, full-featured sound
A sophisticated dual-vented design
Single full-range 10.2mm fourth generation Dynamic Driver
Groove
Incredible musicality
Dynamic sounding bass, treble and midrange
I have heard thicker IEM playback, but few that get this balance right?
One piece (hand-poured) sold-acrylic construction
Superior noise occlusion  
Well-rounded playback of all music genres and file qualities
Dynamite (in-ear) feel all-day long
Warm but not-at-all dark
Stainless steel nozzles
A balanced, even and polite response
Harman Target with a bass boost
Fast and pleasant technicalities, though missing a slight bit of note-weight compared to TOTLs
Cohesive playback
Price-point value leader
Natural expanded soundstage with full note decay
My exact preferred sound-signature, they nailed it
Non-saturated treble
Natural playback tone on all three bands
Comes in a choice of two colors


Cons: Fast and pleasant technicalities, though missing a slight bit of note-weight compared to TOTLs
Comes in an un-needed 334 gram box, which is 258 grams (by itself) when you take everything out
Comes with a showboat cable, that while providing free brand advertising, is medium in sound quality










_Here’s the deal, when you see the pictures and price of the SUPERTFZ Force 1 you have already made assumptions as to the sound quality. I can tell you right now you’re probably underestimating it, at least I was. What ends in surprise is just how balanced and complete the sound is. Realize too, this takes only about 3 minutes to figure out. At times my job of reviewing is easy, these reviews write themselves, and this is one of those times. So if you’re curious as to how the current IEM landscape has changed, here is an affordable and sonically accessible & new TFZ gateway product. _














_First Impressions:
Contrary to what you may think, I want first impressions to go easy on the SUPERTFZ Force 1. Why? Well, we have all day to look for imperfections. I want to view the Force 1 in an optimal light straight-out-of-the-gate. So what I did was get out my ISN SC4 cable, the midcentric Sony WM1A Walkman with MrWalkman firmware, and my favorite Penon IEM tips. Gone is the stock 3.5mm cable, gone are the included ear-tips. I have plenty of time (later in this review) to judge the quality of those extras. But today I want this to be the equivalent of me giving my dog a corn-chip. Mentally I want to jump all-over the chair with excitement. I want to claw the furniture and basically go wild. I want to find out just how strong the SUPERTFZ Force 1 plucks my heart strings. _






_Delain 
Apocalypse & Chill
“Chemical Redemption” 
44.1 kHz - 24 bit

This song was chosen due to the guitars. BAs don’t often get the timbre right on this guitar. Don’t get me wrong, many BA sets do really well, only they are way outside of the $79.00 price-point-league we have here. That’s right kids, for the asked-for cash at $79.00.............there is ample amount of “goodness’ in the form of rocking guitar timbre going on.............so much so that I would (even go so far as to) say it’s perfect? I know, I know perfect is a pretty big word around these parts, heck nothing is perfect, but parts of stuff is! And this is one case. Now I’m really getting ahead of myself, as the guitar only takes 1/2 of a second to judge. Guitar is easy in a way, rhythm guitar in songs simply repeats itself over and over. And like drums is why we call the guitar the intermediary. The guitar has the pace of the drums but the tone and timbre the drums wish they had. SO………that’s what’s special, and the reason I focus on guitar quality. Next up is a SUPERTFZ Force 1 playback that takes a little time to pin-down. The bounce………..the bounce is not just the pace, but a bolt-on style of groove that is hard to define. Meaning at times this “groove" is more, and at times it’s less. Also of course there are (only) places in the test song which capture this groove. Or should I say there are places in playback where the IEM captures this phenomenon. _






_The Groove:
This single item is so important that IEMs are judged (on this trait) regardless of technicalities, as long as there is this connection with groove. Dogs at times have groove, people have groove, at times people only have groove when they are away from the public and let their guard down. Other times out in public, some strangers are showing way too much groove. Probably my favorite public display of groove is slightly subdued and classy? And that’s what we have with the TFZSUPER Force 1, a reserved yet potent way it does the bass and drum interaction. This “groove” works its way up past the drums and bass to add that bounce with guitar. But because that guitar also has great timbre, now we are having fun. All this takes place in only a matter of about 1/2 a song. And just like my dog with a “Scooby-snack”…..I too am enjoying these audio-snacks.  

An encapsulated review:
While some of you are short on interest or time, and (due to that) want less reading. This section is offered as a way to circumvent reading the whole long-winded review. Here just the important points are given and should suffice to give most people all they need to make a quality buying decision_.
They rock! 

_$79.00_
_https://penonaudio.com/supertfz-force1.html_






_Before we start with this review I do want to get a few small concerns out of the way. First off everything except the IEMs and ear-tips are not truly needed. I mean yes, the box opening experience is nice and all, plus they have a sticker at the seam to guarantee the box has never been opened……………..plus a hologram sticker to ensure it’s all original. But really at this price point I can think of other ways to make a dramatic impression. The cable is bizarre, meaning you probably (if you’re reading this) have an extra cable, maybe it’s in 4.4mm balanced so you can take advantage of more power? The Force 1 loves power. But more than that, they have gone and made the included cable be advertising with giant unergonomic “huge-chunky” slabs of chromed steel. Such extras are far from the best design, and while it may work well if that’s all you have.........still, you can easily do better.

Laughably the full package unopened weighs 334 grams, but if you take everything out of the box, the box alone weighs 258 grams with nothing at all in it! There is a style of IEM tray that the IEMs arrive in, there is a bag to carry them around with………but come-on………………is anyone ever going to use that elaborate plastic tray again? No one uses those storage bags……and the packaging……this tower of cardboard, it’s heavy and while dramatic, is not really needed other than to protect the IEMs in route. Also (get this) the storage box has a false bottom, maybe there is a whole extra IEM and packaging hiding in the 1st floor level? Don’t get me wrong, these are world-class IEMs for the cash, it’s just that the extras could be considered free. _






_Let’s get down to business:_
TFZ stands for "The Fragrant Zither” and SUPERTFZ Force 1 is an expansion of that name. The “Fragrant” part I can only guess came from the Zither being an instrument that was/is often played by women? TFZ got their start in 2015……I heard a few TFZ IEMs while in Thailand in 2018. As the years roll-on we can find a small but loyal following at Head-Fi. And while they have never exactly gained mainstream status, they have shared a loyal following, like many Chinese brands……..which take-on a cult like following over the years.

_https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-fragrant-zither-tfz-reviews-and-impressions-thread.852820/_

At Penon Audio they offer 63 different TFZ products, while 21 are sold-out, you can definitely start to see a progression in technology. This new side-brand is introduced as SUPERTFZ which offers 3 products at this time. While naming is a marketing concept all itself, we went from a perfumed musical instrument to a more masculine moniker in the triple “FORCE” series. Truly this new burst of energy with three new models offering a subtle reworking of the name and a rush of enthusiasm. While I totally agree with this introduction of a more man-like name, it’s really a perfect way to go for the band. While a name like “BRUTE FORCE”……Lol, would have been way too over-the-top, SUPERTFZ Force is more like Star Wars, Let The Force Be With You!

_1) SUPERTFZ FORCE 1 $79.00
2) SUPERTFZ FORCE KING $129.00
3) SUPERTFZ FORCE 5 $199_

As it turns out the FORCE 1 is entry level for the FORCE series, though TFZ has made many flagships topping out at $439.00. The evolution is noted as bringing a progression of sound reproduction ideas to reality. With the new name comes a refinement of ideas…….

_1) Dual Magnetic/Tesla Flux System
2) 10.2mm 4th Generation Nano-coated Beryllium Dynamic Driver
3) Non-Cavity harmonic copper seat with 0.5 Harmonic Distortion _

Specifications:
_Model: FORCE 1
Driver: 10.2mm dual magnetic Tesla magnetic group Beryllium coated diaphragm
Impedance: 32Ω
Sensitivity: 105dB
Frequency response: :5Hz-40kHz
Cable length: 120cm
Plug: 3.5mm stereo straight plug
Connector: 2pin 0.78mm_

Besides the fact that the driver has been somehow isolated into its own individual chamber, the fact that the solid resin build is somewhat unique in my experience. After having gone over my entire collection of IEMs, I only find one other builder that has decided to go with solid resin, the Magaosi K5.

_https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/magaosi-k5.22812/reviews#review-24821_

While visiting in Thailand in 2018 I purchased the Magaosi K5. It just so happened to be in a little shop next to a few TFZ IEMs. Hence we come full-circle, and with the Magaosi K5 boasting 5BA drivers, it exhibits a thorough amount of BA timbre. Like many here, my personal IEM understanding has been a slow and prolonged journey, I’m always learning new things. But at the time I purchased the K5, I was truly infatuated with BAs, I was focusing on the soundstage they produced, and the midrange detail/itemization they performed. Though now I’ve learned that there is a wide range of BA timbre, with some being close to natural, and others parlaying a steely metallic tone that separates a good IEM from a bad one. So amazingly, my two solid resin IEMs exhibit an opposite in tone, the old Magaosi K5, the poster-child of bad BA timbre and the FORCE 1, the exact reason why you don’t want to fool around with BAs in the first place! These two IEMs are as different as black and white. While life is rarely so simple to figure out, most of the Hybrid IEMs I truly love have found away around BA timbre. Not always, but most of them will use a Dynamic Driver for the lows and utilize a few BAs to add midrange and treble detail. The magic takes place when somehow the IEM builder uses a BA showing less "off" BA timbre, or somehow it will be masked. Of course the single full-range Dynamic could care less about such issues, as well as offering a level of cohesiveness the standard Hybrid could never possibly dream of achieving. Still for single DD to excel they need to overcome a different series of obstacles. 

1) Correct response, meaning an even, correct and complete frequency response
2) A separation in the soundstage of elements
3) A crispness in ability
4) A balance  

Just to name just a few………..

The BAs by themselves are often crisper (at times) just by nature, they also offer a separation of elements because they are actually separated in frequency focus. Each individual driver has a frequency bandwidth and generate a pinpoint response. A crossover network is implemented to delegate each frequency amount to each individual driver. That’s why I purchased the Magaosi K5, for the money it has great transient response and great imaging inside the soundstage, Due to a relatively flat bass (BA bass) response, those same characteristics were further brought to life……..only they held somewhat awful timbre, which I later identified. Part of the reason a person doesn’t notice such artifacts right-off is they are not concentrating on such things. The other reason is maybe they haven’t been presented with correct instrument tone to use as a reference. Obviously there are other factors than just correct tone, and different IEMs have a range of ability as to how they do such tone. Meaning one will do fabulous vocals, one will excel at string instruments, others do better with drums….and so on……and some do great at everything. IEM methodology is not fully agreed upon as one being better than the rest, as each has both positive and negative features. The key with Dynamic Drivers is to get both the magnet strong and to get the diaphragm as thin and rigid as possible, we want it to respond as fast as possible (while flexing the least) and move back (and forth) into place with the least issues. The next choice is the chamber resonances, meaning some IEMs use the chamber for amplification, and others use the build to absorb resonances. Here we have a solid material that not only absorbs unwanted frequencies, but offers an incredible way of blocking outside noise. This is done with two concepts in mind.

1) Occlusion due to material
2) The custom form-factor shape which blocks more outside noise due to not letting any noise in around the edges due to shape and fit.

You see a solid resin material is quite effective at blocking outside noise. Why it’s not used more often, I’m not sure, except you can imagine the difficulties in construction here. A hand poured resin shell, which after it’s poured............that’s it. No more opening it up to fix a loose wire. Also resin can crack if dropped from a high place. The other interesting feature here is the diameter of the single sound tube. Never before in my experience have I seen a sound tube the same diameter as the nozzle? Normally there are a number of smaller tubes that join together at the base of the nozzle. Here we have an extra large diameter single sound tube with breather vent-port positioned right at the base of the aluminum nozzle. A second rear vent is positioned behind the 10.2mm dynamic driver right under the faceplate. The only other IEM that remotely resembles this is the DUNU SA6 which has 6 BAs which are 1/2 submerged in resin. In that design they have also put a breather/vent under the faceplate. The back of the BAs seem to exit pressure into this chamber under the faceplate. But the rest of the IEM is also solid resin. Why does all this matter? The reason it matters is two fold.

1) Sound response it indicative of design
2) The tune still needs to be in order

So both are dependent on each other for success, except a revolutionary design (like we have here) can at times offer unique progress as long as it’s tuned well, and that’s what we have. If you take the Force 1 out of your ears and turn up the volume, you can feel them vibrate slightly, this is due to direct transfer of sound vibrations from the driver. It’s like you are holding the driver chamber in your hands, of course this is while using volume levels way above listable level, as such you will not be able to feel the shells (while wearing) vibrate at normal listening levels. This construction also bypasses a whole slew of build issues with other IEM designs. Have you ever lost a 2-pin mount? Such an event happens with hollow IEMs, in that the 2 pin mount pushes through into the actual cavity, due to being mounted un-securely. Here the 2-pin is mounted right into the resin. Other companies will even go so far as to build a separate structure to reinforce the 2-pin. This looks like a support structure behind the pin-mount. Here we bypass all of those issues. The next artifact of construction could be hollow shells in having a pressure-leak. Meaning you have a driver acoustically responding in a hollow chamber, that chamber is dependent on a certain level of air-pressure to give desired response, get a loss of glue or an open-seam which could allow air-input/out-put, and we have a frequency deviation from how it was designed. With solid-resin shells there is zero chance of a wire being tugged or dislodged. There is no change of anything ever moving out of place, as everything is solidified. The downside of course is that these are not repairable if something was to happen. I’m not sure what that something would be, but there is no taking these apart, ever!






















_The sound:_
This leads us to understanding the sound. I’ll make one single statement OK……………..This for the love of God, is my sound signature. That’s right, no beating around the bush, no making excuses.............TFZ has hit the proverbial nail on the head. There may be extra small “extras’ you could do to dial-it-in even better…….like a different cable, or wide-bore tips…………….but this is my sound. Actually I have a couple of sounds, but this here, this is the main one. This is exactly how I want to hear my music played back…….all of it! That’s why this review is so long. The response is a subtle V shape with balance. When I say balance, I mean there is no great disparity of bass to treble or treble to bass which would tilt the response. Such a playback does offer more warmth that some IEMs, but the Force 1 is not dark in any way. There is just enough treble to make it stand out and add clarity. There are just enough mids to push vocals out into the stage, and just enough bass and lower midrange to get your groove on. This in-fact may sound like the Goldilocks story…….because it is. This is my Goldilocks IEM tune. Now later on I’m going to show how it responds to various songs and list the songs and details…….but before I do I want to describe a couple things. First off, I have special test songs that I don’t disclose, I mean these reviews are descriptive enough, I don’t have to list every action I take! But let me tell you……….the secret test songs were fabulous. Why……due to image placement. That’s right, you already know about the incredible correct timbre, but next to that in importance is image placement. One time was there was this IEM that sounded off, I couldn’t put my finger on it but the sound wasn’t right. It took me a while to figure out the issue. What it was was placement, the imaging was totally screwed up. Drums and effects were totally off-kilter. And due to this discovery I have kept the test song secret and used it pretty much with every IEM I have tested. So it’s a song that has incredible soundstage, but there are drums imaged in exact position in relationship with other instruments...........and effects offer-up dimensionality. Such critical positioning, and below a bass line. So if you could imagine in a super quick span of time I can hear exactly how the whole placement of how everything goes together ! Now tone can obviously be many things, that’s a given. But placement into the soundstage can be well done, average or bad. In this song when it’s bad drums will stack on-top of one another, they will actually be occluded from perception due to wrong placement. Here probably partially due to it being a single full-range DD everything was correct. In fact it was natural and musical, while parleying not the biggest soundstage on the block, but not better than average. What I’m trying to say is it was correct! Normally, especially with $79.00 IEMs this style of technicality doesn’t exist.

_Treble:_
The treble excels at fast transient response times which give imaging, while still being smooth and forgiving. It is this subtle tightrope……….and even more special when you realize that single full-range DDs can at times have roll-off issues. Often there is just a slight lacking ability........where extra energy is found in the bass, but they don’t do treble correct, that or the opposite where the bass is fine.........but just a smidge is missing in the treble. Often there will be something? But not here. Still again this is a style of preference….....…the energy in the treble. Still there is a way for the treble to be even, balanced and correct when all the boxes are checked…………and that’s what we have. Normally reviewers will dissect the treble into upper, mid and lower treble so they can point-out an issue, but no not here………again Goldilocks.

_Midrange:_
While this shows a subtle V response, the midrange is fully accounted for. And of course that’s where the soundstage takes its expanse from.






_KMFDM
HYENA 
"In Dub We Trust"
44.1 kHz - 24 bit_

Only with great response balance do we hear the vocals well. The mids offer the male vocals a clarity due to just being correct. Believe me “Dub” can be a test of frequency response, but more than that, the imaging is fast and eventful. The vocals have a nice echo that we can hear.........the vocal relief into the stage is great. And while at 2 minutes 39 seconds we have (all-of-a-sudden) competition with the vocals in a (newly introduced) lead guitar. Such showboat-style guitar fits the song, and while it’s competing with the vocals, it’s really a form of accent. The singing and guitar are playfully back and forth………so when the lead takes a position of emphasis, it’s welcome and better than welcome, it’s part of a climax in the song...........as lead guitar often is. At 3 minutes 45 seconds, more fireworks are lit-off. This song is special due to being the last song on the album, but also because it has a form of magic. Everything just works in the song, the way it was recorded, the tone of the instruments, the (Dub-sytle) bass never getting in the way, like you hear in so many late night bars. Here we are bestowed with true audiophile presentation. Unforgettable midrange, that makes this number work! I could write pages about this song with the Force 1, but let’s move on, we have more to cover! I have feeing this song was recorded this summer, it has a wonderful summer vibe!

_Bass:_
Round and technical, bouncing and owning a beat. With some songs the Force 1 bass is slightly more reserved in stature and "fast"..........other times like here it's clear but not as totally focused? I will admit I often listen to this song, but not for bass reasons, yet it is a great example, as we will find out!






_Kauan
Sorni Nai
"Kit"
44.1 kHz - 24 bit_

This song is about hiking is a snow storm…….maybe……..the whole album is about this subject, anyway………..The vocals start the song off, and there is an abrupt echo at 2 seconds. It’s compounded with another echo and a recurring echo of repeating the tone of the first vocal as it pans across. A piano is introduced (actually from the song start) and we now hear the snow storm. The sound effects are an important bass response as they are allocated to lower frequencies at 18 seconds in……..and this song is all about correct decays and echos. At 26 seconds the song has a start………where the central theme is introduced. At 50 seconds in we have a kick-drum and such deep tone is added as a form of entertainment, as the lead-up was thinner, but that’s how they roll, progression and gaining plateau.The beautiful part of that section is the combined cymbal crash with the kick…..that shows everything can be heard…….even the fall-off (decay) of the cymbal! I chose this song due to it’s style of meandering bass line. The fact that bass character is at times more important that bass quantity. And that’s what we have, a bass line that’s an integral part of the song, worked in and needed, actually essential to how the song is built. This song has a swagger and pace that’s very unusual and fun. Also back to the beginning of the sound section here, we now understand how everything has it’s place, that the placement in the stage is of utmost importance. At 2 minutes 15 seconds shows the most simple yet effective guitar note, a single emphasized note, that shows their concentration on simplicity. Is anything more needed………..I think not? The bass is along too for the counterpoint, and we can hear everything! At 5 minutes 7 seconds the bass shows a delicate emphasis and the Force 1 is going the full gambit of tone. Such delicate replay is what the Force 1 is all about and showing sophistication well above and beyond its humble price point. Note too, that around the 5 minute 20 second place, the bass actuality is performing the lead instead of a guitar. That’s due to what is to follow as the true climax of the song, with the final distillation of power-cords……which leads into the vocals at the end.

_Finally we come to the end of the sound/music section, yet with a top-off. A going back to the first song we explored here………_






_Delain 
Apocalypse & Chill
“Chemical Redemption” 
44.1 kHz - 24 bit_

This was the review opener, and returning to this investigation emulates what audiophiles do when they return to songs. And much like a precious gemstone, the response of the Force 1 will slightly take-on new small idiosyncrasies when viewed under different light. But the other reason I’m returning to the song is because it shows so much. Like a cutting knife which separates reality…………this song is revealing. So much in the understanding and showcasing of playback. Here we are welcoming a complete style of playback, one that will show faults with some IEMs. Once again I return to the guitar at the 8 second mark. Here we are met with correct timbre, and other IEMs will also exhibit a range of realistic playback. But at times the guitar will sound overly treble-centric and more rough than it is in life. Here we are shown both a relaxed example of IEM playback with a splash of realism. But more than the tone, I’m hearing a separation and a soundstage, all driven by decay of imaging. That’s right, the fall-off of certain aspects (of notes) make this song. We already talked about spacial accuracy and how the imaging is just about correct, things are placed in the soundstage where they are supposed to be. But one step further, the actual reverberations have room to breath, and gain life. The main reason for good reverberations? The benefits of DD, the ability to replay the natural fall-out of frequencies. But often this phenomena is not heard due to congestion. So here besides timbre, the triad of abilities.......................added.............the reverbs and the spacial placement. This may not sound like much, but it’s everything thing with this song. Well……….almost everything, the final add you already know about. The actual balance of frequency representation. The balance of treble to bass, the placement of the midrange to do the work needed to bring the vocals here to their prime placement. Do you here the opening synth arpeggio sequence while listening to the song? Here is our very first clue as to the quality abound. The notes are warm, yet not dark, they have a pace and slight variation to which this whole song is based on. That’s right, (the arpeggio) introduce the skeleton of the song at the beginning. Right away we are welcomed and down for the entire song. At the 8 second mark really there is a whole attack of instruments, with the timbre of guitar used as a key to understanding timbre. Such playback is processed and over-driven, phase-shifted and who knows what else. At the 24 second mark we hear vocalist Charlotte Wessels take a quick breath, in fact her breath taking is showcased through-out the album. At the 40 second mark the bridge to the chorus is already in effect, and we are taken to a different level. At the 56 second mark the music almost stops to showcase the full chorus (lead-up) statement. Not the hook of the song, but hook-like none the less. This simple musical phrase consists of Charlotte Wessels, a synth and a kick-drum.Yet almost the whole reason for this paragraph is found here, that’s right, the echos in the synth along with her voice as well as the kick-drum. The Force 1 shows an uncanny ambiance way, way above its humble price-point. The reality is that three different reverbs are used here, one for the drums, one for the synth and one for the vocals…….in-which there is a transition at the end of multi-tracked vocal reverberations at the 1 minute 8 second mark; kind-of a reverse of sounds. Finally at 1 minute 11 seconds we experience the full chorus of the song. They then continue to reintroduce these various themes, yet at 2 minutes 14 seconds somehow it’s all clearer, and dramatic. Increased volume changes maybe, yet here the song is truly in gear. At 3 minutes the lead guitar starts like clock-work, at 3 minutes 21 seconds the lead is over……….yet we are satisfied, and more so that the Force 1 doesn’t use a wrong tweaked-up of timbre for the lead, the lead is not saturated, yet fully heard in it’s naturalness…….this is what you are paying your money for……………the small stuff. When the song is over we are left with memories..........such flash-backs can reintroduce song elements. Probably most memorable is the backing chorus, seeping into our daily life as a remnant of the musical experience………..the stuff we take with us......after the song ended.

_Burn-in:_
Laughably the SUPERTFZ Force 1 was burned in for 7 days straight. Why? Single full-range DD, that’s why. While really the Force 1 was stelar straight out of the box, 168 hours went and smoothed out the flow, as well as added slight cohesiveness. The truth is most IEMs are not exactly this way. Many, almost all, will get a slight bass boost from burn-in. In actuality the treble may have smoothed out some, but there were no off-notes, or serious issues which needed burn-in to fix. I could have almost done this whole review a week ago, still in the effort for completeness..........such formalities are required. I’m telling myself soundstage also increased a little, part of this too may be mental adaption, where as you become familiar with a sound signature you slowly hear more into it. Think of sitting on the edge of a hill and looking out over a city, after a while new points of interest start to emerge, new questions even arise. Such responses are just leaning to get to know an IEM..............and going from first impressions to having a solid idea of what you truly have.

_Cable rolling:_
First off we talked about the included cable a little at the start. Such novelties are truly different, the chunky advertising placement of the brand symbol on the bifurcation block, the plug (which is the largest) with a style of huge thick chrome, almost yelling for a passer-by to read it. Nonsense maybe, but if you had no other choices, it’s not bad, still a fast look into your collection should offer another choice. Even the 4.4mm $16.99 FAAEAL Hibiscus (cable) seemed to offer (maybe) a slight improvement. Rolling back to the included cable (just like prior reviews state).............there are many opportunity for sonic improvement with a quick and easy cable change out. Most of this change was added energy in the mids and upper treble from an example like the ISN SC4 cable. A new person really may not even recognize or even want a boost in those areas. Ignorance is bliss so to speak as far as having a yearning for a cable change. And while slightly more money than the IEM by itself, after going back and forth, I can sincerely recommend the ISN SC4 cable as an avenue to take the Force 1 to much better places.

_https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-sc4.html _

The ISN SC4 cable, used with the Walkman 1A, made the sound I was looking for. And while the stock cable and a simple phone output were fine, taking the Force 1 to the next level is real and advised as far as this listener reports. Such benefits were expanded soundstage, a brighter midrange and treble, with increased speed and texture of the bass. Amazingly the dramatic formed ear-hooks on both the included cable and the FAAEAL Hibiscus cable were not needed in any from to keep the Force 1 in the ear. Also the $32.50 ISN S8 cable was another great choice for the Force 1. To reiterate my cable experience, the included cable offers a nice balance which is also parallel to the FAAEAL Hibiscus cable, though maybe a slight improvement using 4.4mm amplification. The ISN SC4 cable was a noticeable walk-in-the-park increase in imaging but primarily focused on better midrange and treble tone, and didn’t included dramatic ear-hooks. The ISN S8 cable was also a noticeably better experience than the included cable, and didn’t included ear-hooks! While many may consider cable changes a required necessity with the Force 1, a person is still able to simply get 90% of the full experience with included cable.

_https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-s8.html_






_The comparisons:
This was the single most rewarding and enlightening part of the review for me.

First off, I want to explain the single picture. Note the ear-tip, it is the same provided wide-bore that comes in the Force 1 box, but place it on a random nozzle and witness the difference. So we have a phenomena of the same tip providing three times the nozzle opening (end-distance) from one IEM placement to another. This probably affects sound, but also interesting none the less. These same ear-tips were used on every IEM in the test, regardless if optimal or not. And sure enough, each time there were slight nozzle end variations. This set of side-by-sides should prove eventful due to the reality of sound signatures coming into direct contact with one another. I have attempted to chose a few IEMs which would (by guessing) help delineate sound characters of one another. Truly price was a the main point of selection, as price to performance is why you’re reading anyway……..besides understanding character. The ISN D10 cable was left on due to MMCX paranoia in the photo._

_Cat Ear Meow, a $55.00 2 X DD dynamic driver IEM_
_Tipsy TTROMSO PineStone Sea, an $89.00 single full-range dynamic driver IEM_
_7Hz x Crinacle Salnotes Dioko, a $99.00 dollar planar IEM (Of couse purple color)_
_ISN D10, a $149.00 full-range dynamic driver IEM_
_(By going off memory) I have already taken my impressions and overlaid the perimeters onto a general understanding of each performance and individual character. Yet, often when judged side-by-side, the truth will go to disclose things slightly different. Why? Because IEM judgment (while attempting to be objective) never truly is factual 100% of the time. There are a multitude of factors which help obfuscate the final results. Hence the order the original reviews were done, the contrasts in relation to other IEMs heard. This historic element has so much to change option...............as we all have listening histories and experiences………thus the new IEM is in relation to past IEMs.


A) https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cat-ear-meow.26008/reviews#review-29148 

B) https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/tipsy-ttromso-pinestone-sea.25757/reviews#review-28179

C) https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/7h...ioko-universal-iem.25990/reviews#review-29004

D) https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/isn-d10.24286/reviews#review-29043

As this list of IEMs was chosen, I could have placed twice as many direct comparisons. But does 8 direct comparisons give a stronger picture of IEM quality, or will I lose you as a reader? Where is the balance in this study?_

I chose the D10 as the heavyweight as it’s fully more money, but acts as an example of what you get with that extra money spent. The Meow was chosen as the new kid on the block, also an example of what would happen if you spent a little less money. The Dioko an example of planar personality, and the TTROMSO a direct example in sound response. Never the less I chose the included cable with the Dioko, the ISN SC4 cable for the SUPERTFZ Force 1, Cat Ear Meow, and the TTROMSO. The ISN D10 got its included cable ($58.90 ISN S4) as it was the only MMCX, plus it is said to optimize D10 playback. The controversy here is I am using the SC4 cable priced at $99.90 with lesser priced IEMs. My response to that is, I’m using it on the three of the IEMs, the Dioko doesn’t need what the SC4 cable does, hence the included cable. My other reasons are (note single DD) the character of response equally gets the benefits of slightly better separation and midrange/treble sparkle, a benefit that I would want in use with my single full-range DDs. While the included (Force 1) cable is in many ways middle of the road, and not bad at all, it’s just that we are looking for improvements (where improvements can be found) for a reasonable price. Such showboat Force 1 included cable could have been used to equalize all the 2 pin testing today, as it’s ok, but not the best.

_In side-by-side testing, the included Force 1 cable and the FAAEAL Hibiscus cable......were in a way equal. Remember though the FAAEAL Hibiscus cable was used in 4.4mm mode, and the included (cable) was using the 3.5mm unbalanced amplifier. So you can see, I don’t view it as a bad included cable, just not optimal for our uses today! In my test today I used the Sony Walkman WM1A with MrWalkmans firmware and I used the Force 1 included wide-bore tips in large size for every single side-by-side. Such wide-bore tips were not bad, but were very much a style of wide-bore which positioned the nozzle-end very close to the tip-end allowing the frequencies to scatter-off at point of dispersion into the ear canal. Such ear-tips in no way enhance bass frequency, but normally increase soundstage and noticeability of transient response. This mid-frequency and treble-boost can often increase the feeling of detail, recovering sonic elements from languishing in sonic mud._

1) Cat Ear Meow vs Force 1
This has been an IEM of slight controversy of late. Now you would guess me putting wide-bore tips on and joining it with the one-of-the-most mid/treble hyped-up cables would be tossing it from the frying pan into the fire! And while yes, out of my four demo songs it was too mid-forward in one……….this maybe my hearing…………but it was fine with the other three songs. Though obviously more midrange forward and bright. Such tests remind us of the Force 1’s inherent sound signature. The Force emitted a gloriously wider stage with elements found excitedly in the smallest of back spaces! Yet all was with less vividness and pushiness than the Meow. The Cat Ear Meow’s more rough and tumble, and the Force 1 of a more smooth and polished affair. One again the Meow shows itself to exist more wild and of an untamed nature, while still providing a service of reproduction, despite what I have given her to chew-on. What was the antidote to the Force 1’s personality was a little too much extra spice for the Meow………….thus jacking it up, and adding unneeded hype to the found peaks. As putting the cat back into its cage with the regularly used $32.50 ISN S8 cable was return to glory and acceptability! Should I have tested these two with different cables and tips? Maybe, but of the four songs I think I found the important differences, and in the end it just depends on your mood, as while they are remotely the same, they are truly more different due to the midrange on the Meow and the soundstage expansion on the Force 1. 

2) Pinestone Sea vs Force 1
The Pinestone in another that doesn’t get all love it deserves. With these tips and cable the response in way more mid-detailed than I ever remember it to be. The imaging and expansion of the soundstage texture...........remarkable. Gosh, I really have to use these more. Also the changes have delegated the bass to what maybe would be considered an optimal place, where I normally think of this set as highly bass deep and almost foggy, here we are met with an endearing pace and resolve? W H A T?

But more than that, as I go off the scheduled programing into unknown listening territory……I have a newly garnered respect for the Pinestone. These are not the same ear-monitors I reviewed back in March 20, 2022………as I didn’t have the magical ISN SC4 cable to optimize them to perfection…………who knew? If anyone has the Pinestones sitting in their collection and maybe not used as frequently as you thought when you bought them, it may be time for a new cable? This is truly a change I would have half-way guessed, but not fully expected, when the rubber meets the road! While changing over to the Force 1 the first thing noticed is a slight refinement.........a clarity of instruments, but remember, it’s that instrument placement (the perfect) placement, adding an acceptance and thrill..............special at the price-point asked. Where the Pinestone does a different magic, having a more open, less refined sound, but dishing-up a more harmonically expand imaging of elements. Where the Force 1 is probably more real and natural, there is no doubt in my mind these two are both special. My problem is that the Pinestone is only slightly less well-rounded, where it almost became to forward in the mids (something I thought previously I would never say)…………….those characteristics of the Pinestone made for a slightly more dramatic replay on some stuff. _In the end the Force is more prim and proper, with a more accessible methodology, if you went on vacation and only took one IEM with you……..maybe the Force 1 would be that single IEM. Still having both near me allows for fantastic tandem teaming! Truly the Pinestone is a force all its own!_ 

3) Dioko vs Force 1
The imaging and itemization placement with the Dioko is cool………..and really what we paid for! And of course the detail is better with Dioko does, of course you knew that was coming! The Dioko rules detail in the sub-$100 realm, yet this resolution is not with-out its drawbacks. As often with single full-range DDs.............the bass is slightly more present with the Force 1, so we are truly comparing apples and oranges at this point in the review. Do you love chocolate ice-cream or vanilla? Because both are wonderful in their own right. Still I’m leaning towards the Force 1 as a more accessible IEM, more balanced to my ears. And again this IS my sound signature……all of it. Where the Dioko is fun, and a special spectacle of sonic bliss, especially with bass heavy music.

_Now this may come as a surprise...............an IEM which is conservative on bass fronts............why on earth would you ask of playback specialty in bass? Because the bass heavy music (adding of extra bass, in the song) shows bounce when there is a possibility of not finding any with standard (lower bass music). _So while the planar here is showing its due diligence in parlaying wonderful and engaging treble and midrange, probably best in the world under $100, the bass in not quite enough for this listener. So in comparison I find the Force 1 to inch past the Dioko in this single comparison. The wide-bore tips were still no solution to Dioko bass, or lack there of it, as an example of ear-tips they did enhance the spacial ability of the Dioko into the soundstage, yet no matter what ear-tips I used, the Dioko bass was not quite enough for me. Here is a great example of low-end musicality (with the Force 1) wining-out over resolution in the end.  

4) ISN D10 vs Force 1
So many of you that are familiar with the D10 tricks would know, there is no touching the ISN D10 bass impact. But also there was a slight realness and relaxed oneness that won-out over the Force 1. Still that physicality and forwardness of the D10 bass is at risk of showing a slight lack of polish and refinement displayed by the Force 1. Where the D10 has some on the best bass I have ever heard, ever……and in addition that bass doesn’t mess with the other frequencies. But the Force 1 has a harmon tune with extra bass that is not quite as drastic as the D10......thus more everyday listening. Where the D10 is this hearing into the bass and having it hold a infatuation that is borderline distracting. The D10 also though produces slightly darker images of midrange and treble, slightly thicker and more well-fed. The Force 1 does an amazing job nonetheless, costing actually more when you factor in the cable add! $149.00 D10 in stock form in comparison to $99.90 SC4 cable and SUPERTFZ Force 1 $79.00 = 178.90. Yet at the 178.90 you’re getting a faster bass and a more forward midrange and thinner yet brighter treble, losing a little of that dramatic soundstage the D10 effortlessly reinforces. So? It’s hard to choose…….maybe impossible, except when that faster, more sculpted and focused bass of the Force 1 hits……there is nothing like it!






_Conclusion:
This is my signature, it’s absolutely what I want to hear as far as Frequency Response when I hear music. I can’t guarantee it will be your Frequency Response…………..but hopefully it will be correct for you? This is a great example of a warm but not dark signature, a balanced and even reproduction. Such replay is both correct and complete, at least for me and my hearing. Also there is a great mixture of bounce in the lows and spacial positioning in the mids. Such replay wouldn’t be complete without a full-reach into the highs, leaving no sonic stone unturned! While not totally (airy) or treble imaged (full-on) spatially, it’s satisfying and relatively complete. At the asking price, it’s truly special, and one of my favorite replays as of late. The build is cool………….really very beautiful as well as functional. The Force 1 flows into your ears and due to the solid resin construction, offers sound occlusion in noisy environments. The way the Force 1 fits deep causes increased fidelity, as well as keeping them in place. All this adds up to a great out and about IEM, but I won’t be going outside with it.......... as it’s just too precious of a thing. The SUPERTFZ Force 1 stays at home as it's something too precious to lose.

TFZ clicked all the boxes, making a true example of modern day IEM construction and design. While the extras may or may not be used, the box opening experience is amazing. If anything this packaging keeps the IEMs safe and secure.......and truly a first for me at this price point. The pace is probably my most favorite aspect, because it’s incredibly rhythmic and fun. Though none of that would matter if the imaging placement wasn’t correct too. In many ways the SUPERTFZ Force 1 reminded me of what’s important here.............to provide a pleasurable sound response at an exquisite dollar-value. What’s inside the big box? A treasure to behold. 

$79.00
https://penonaudio.com/supertfz-force1.html


Disclaimer:
I want to thank Penon Audio for the love and the SUPERTFZ Force 1 review sample. 

Disclaimer:
These are one persons ideas and concepts, your results may vary. 

Equipment Used:_
Sony WM1Z Walkman DAP MrWalkman Firmware 4.4mm and 3.5mm
Sony WM1A Walkman DAP MrWalkman Firmware 4.4mm and 3.5mm
Sony TA-ZH1ES DAC/AMP Firmware 1.03
Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard "Fatboy" Power Cord
Sony Walkman Cradle BCR-NWH10
AudioQuest Carbon USB
UA3 Dongle DAC/Amplifier 4.4mm and 3.5mm


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## Carpet

We've drifted off topic for a KZ thread, which is my bad. I was hopping threads and thought I was posting in the Discovery thread.


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## Redcarmoose

Carpet said:


> We've drifted off topic for a KZ thread, which is my bad. I was hopping threads and thought I was posting in the Discovery thread.


Mods could remove stuff if they see fit. It’s not the end of the world, or anything! Cheers!


----------



## r31ya (Oct 24, 2022)

baskingshark said:


> The problem with TFZ is that majority of their IEMs are V shaped basshead one trick ponies. And a lot of their single DDs were north of $100 USD, which is an extremely tough market, with lots of other well-regarded big boys to compete against.
> 
> TFZ also has a very weird naming convention for their IEMs. For example, my love 2019 edition, my love ltd, my love 2, my love 3. There's TFZ king pro, king ltd, exclusive king edition, king 2, king 3, TFZ No. 3 19th edition etc. Consumers get confused with their various releases.


Yeah, TFZ is trying to do KZ (many iem releases in relatively short) in low mid fi pricing which will not bode well.
and releasing many2 singleDD without clear classification (like the bass heavy line, or neutralbright line, or deep V line)
cause TFZ to be drowned and diluted in their own product line which sometimes wasn't marketed much

Moondrop did releases better (good spacing, advert campaign), KZ can do it because its a budget line (many sub$30) which people doesn't mind to buy several of.
TFZ have the fundamentals, but back then the tuning is stuck in generic "V" perception and didn't stand out.

Hopefully SuperTFZ bode better with product planning and marketing.


----------



## Redcarmoose

The nozzles have a glue made circumference narrowing! This Force 1 is the first of this style I’ve come across, yet the new KZ ZS10 PRO X, has the exact same thing!


----------



## bithalver

Question: If I own the KZ ZS10 PRO, is it worth to get the new KZ ZS10 PRO X ? (on Black Friday, sure).
Do they have any significant difference ?

Please vorfige me for rgammar miskates; ingiliz not is ym tanive ganluage.


----------



## r31ya (Oct 25, 2022)

bithalver said:


> Question: If I own the KZ ZS10 PRO, is it worth to get the new KZ ZS10 PRO X ? (on Black Friday, sure).
> Do they have any significant difference ?
> 
> Please vorfige me for rgammar miskates; ingiliz not is ym tanive ganluage.


haven't heard it personally, but form the few reviews around, its apparently its a decent update.
Not quite "Next level" thing, but a good update from the original.
Less metallic treble, better quality bass, and mids apparently also midly improved.

but to note at around $50, you will also have plenty of other option available, you might want to look into that first.
but yeah if you can get it for $30 with discount its pretty damn good iem at that price.


----------



## r31ya (Oct 26, 2022)

KZ seems to have tried to use Gumiho pseudo planar (SPD) before, didn't particularly like it because the price performance and opt to go all in into Planar Driver.

Per Tyvan Lam facebook musing,
(tl;dr, KZ will announce second gen planar next month)
(also, he still irked Gumiho got good review and didn't get bashed for using "fake" planar")



> We found the public is still confused about the difference between real planar & pseudo planar, here is more answers that you are supposed to understand it, and show the public for more truth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TechnoidFR

r31ya said:


> KZ seems to have tried to use Gumiho pseudo planar (SPD) before, didn't particularly like it because the price performance and opt to go all in into Planar Driver.
> 
> Per Tyvan Lam facebook musing,
> (tl;dr, KZ will announce second gen planar next month)
> (also, he still irked Gumiho got good review and didn't get bashed for using "fake" planar")



Why gumiho is a fake planar?


----------



## lushmelody

Does anyone knows where to find the fabric filter KZ uses in AST? That matches it smaller nozzle...

I'd try the iem filterless, but I don't want to try put the BAs at risk


----------



## baskingshark

TechnoidFR said:


> Why gumiho is a fake planar?



Someone opened the Celeste Gumiho and found it was a Square Planar driver (SPD): https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/posts/2973300126303930/

So technically a SPD isn't a planar magnetic driver by the way it functions, but you can read the post to see the fine details.

At the end of the day, I think the driver type or brand or even driver count, isn't as important as the tuning and implementation.


----------



## seanwee

baskingshark said:


> Someone opened the Celeste Gumiho and found it was a Square Planar driver (SPD): https://www.facebook.com/groups/2386473901653225/posts/2973300126303930/
> 
> So technically a SPD isn't a planar magnetic driver by the way it functions, but you can read the post to see the fine details.
> 
> At the end of the day, I think the driver type or brand or even driver count, isn't as important as the tuning and implementation.


Makes me wonder about the KZ planar


----------



## Ceilidh

seanwee said:


> Makes me wonder about the KZ planar


well, KZ's planar drive is visible through the resing of the PR1 and PL13 in photographs, so we can say, without a doubt, that its design is a standard planar magnetic driver


----------



## seanwee

Ceilidh said:


> well, KZ's planar drive is visible through the resing of the PR1 and PL13 in photographs, so we can say, without a doubt, that its design is a standard planar magnetic driver


Just got the PL13 so I could share some more detailed pics while they burn in



Can't really see the other side but there are arrays on both side. 

Don't know what the round thing on the other side is tho. And you can't really see the diaphragm.


----------



## r31ya

seanwee said:


> Makes me wonder about the KZ planar


HiFri have dissected PR1, Pla13 most probably use the same KZ gen 1 planar drivers.


----------



## bhazard (Oct 26, 2022)

Unless one of these was mislabeled, these measure more similar than I'd have expected. I assume it's the same driver tuned differently.
AutoEQ attached


----------



## seanwee

r31ya said:


> HiFri have dissected PR1, Pla13 most probably use the same KZ gen 1 planar drivers.


Definitely looks the same to me!



bhazard said:


> Unless one of these was mislabeled, these measure more similar than I'd have expected. I assume it's the same driver tuned differently.
> AutoEQ attached


So giving the driver more room to breathe reduces the bass and intensifies the treble?


----------



## seanwee

DynamicEars said:


> Good that they fix the "valley of trap"
> A term that I use for "treble safe tuning" that dial back 5-7khz area but most of manufacturer overdone this made the 6khz details unheard or worse, gone.
> 
> Definitely better than PLA13 tuning, i don't even wish better bass shelf for this budget range but the upper treble extension is too much, that will be sounded too airy, smooth tizziness and you cant tame that with nylon / paper damper. The nicehck NX7 have similar problem with this upper treble extension that you can't tame with all the filters.
> ...


Personally I find the pla13's treble to be on the verge of treble sizzle to being a little ear piercing depending on the song.

The 5-7khz dip is welcome but it's not quite there yet, it comes in a bit late relative to my endgame treble preference (Elysian Annihilator).

Looking at the PR1 vs PLA13 graphs I definitely would find the PR1s too sibilant to be enjoyable.


----------



## Hustler

Are the KZ ZES worth checking out? Currently I have KZ ESX, DQ6 with Tanya filter and CCA CRA - I like them all.


----------



## XerusKun (Oct 27, 2022)

DynamicEars said:


> Good that they fix the "valley of trap"
> A term that I use for "treble safe tuning" that dial back 5-7khz area but most of manufacturer overdone this made the 6khz details unheard or worse, gone.
> 
> Definitely better than PLA13 tuning, i don't even wish better bass shelf for this budget range but the upper treble extension is too much, that will be sounded too airy, smooth tizziness and you cant tame that with nylon / paper damper. The nicehck NX7 have similar problem with this upper treble extension that you can't tame with all the filters.
> ...


Tried the alcohol wipe mod with PR1 Balanced seems like it also affects the upper treble..

I might also create a bass port to reduce the bass, already liked how it sounds (it kinda became L-shaped to my ears) with Alcohol Wipe mod just too much bass.


----------



## seanwee (Oct 27, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> Tried the alcohol wipe mod with PR1 Balanced seems like it also affects the upper treble..
> 
> I might also create a bass port to reduce the bass, already liked how it sounds (it kinda became L-shaped to my ears) with Alcohol Wipe mod just too much bass.


I see you have folded over some parts of the alcohol wipe, try trimming it so that there is minimal overlap. I posted a guide back when i was modding my CRA https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cca-in-ear-monitors-impressions-thread.900149/post-16816419

You can also tweak the length of the wipe to make it dampen less of the treble though for mids i prefer swapping filters.


----------



## seanwee

Speaking of mods, has anyone tried blocking the vents on the side and the faceplate of the KZ/CCA planars?

Are they decorative or functional?


----------



## XerusKun

seanwee said:


> Speaking of mods, has anyone tried blocking the vents on the side and the faceplate of the KZ/CCA planars?
> 
> Are they decorative or functional?


Decorative...its even shown in their advertisement pictures.





No changes in the FR also.


----------



## seanwee (Oct 28, 2022)

ephrank said:


> Looking for comments from people who own both original CRA and PR1 HiFi.
> 
> Is it true that both share similar FR? Do you think PR1 is worth it for CRA owners?
> 
> EDIT - PR1 Hifi Edition to be specific


How did you like the CRA? 
Which parts of the sound did you think you liked and which parts did you not like?

Was the bass ok or would you like more/less bass? How were vocals, did you find them thin or ok? 



XerusKun said:


> I have both CRA and PR1 Balanced (which is just PR1 Hifi but 2db additional subbass), nope they are different..PR1 sounds meatier, full, less metallic, less harsh in the upper treble.. CRA sounds too gritty in the treble and there's no weight to the bass (just all rumble).


The PR1 balanced is the same thing as the PLA apparently. The PR1 HIFI has less bass and more treble. 



PhonoPhi said:


> I first thought you are asking about the comparison with the CCA planar.
> CRA are amazing IEM for $12 with its sub-bass focus and rich extended treble.
> 
> I hear PR1 HiFi as quite mid-bass focused (sub-bass is there but there is rnough mid-bass to dominate to my ears), thicker, rich, with some peaks in upper treble.
> So quite different to CRA but at 4+ times the cost, the choice to upgrade would be a subjective personal decision.


Comparing the CRA to the PLA/PR1b its sort of a two steps forward one step back thing.

+Better bass control
+more natural upper mids-lower treble

+-More bass

-sibilant upper treble (cymbals have a bit too much sizzle) 

Value definitely still lies with the CRA, the price is way too low. Tuning wise if you liked the CRA you'll like the PLA/PR1b as well. Unless you already thought the CRA had too much bass

@PhonoPhi how loud do you listen to music? 

At my listening levels (80-85 ish db) the PLA/PR1b was already borderline uncomfortable in brighter sounding tracks. The PR1hifi would likely be too much. Bass would be more in line with the CRA but better controlled.



XerusKun said:


> Decorative...its even shown in their advertisement pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> No changes in the FR also.


Yeah just tried taping off the vents on my PLA and it did nothing. 

Haven't tried taping the driver vent on the canal side thoigh but I'd guess it will boost the bass similar to other iems.


----------



## XerusKun

seanwee said:


> How did you like the CRA?
> Which parts of the sound did you think you liked and which parts did you not like?
> 
> Was the bass ok or would you like more/less bass? How were vocals, did you find them thin or ok?
> ...


Do you have both PR1b/PLA13, is it really identical? I think Akros measured the PR1b and PLA13 and there's differences.

Green PLA13
Red PR1b




Maybe same driver but different dampers or filter for sure, altering the sound a bit making them not identical imho. 😅


----------



## seanwee

XerusKun said:


> Do you have both PR1b/PLA13, is it really identical? I think Akros measured the PR1b and PLA13 and there's differences.
> 
> Green PLA13
> Red PR1b
> ...


Thanks, didn't know it was measured. Very similar tho, definitely closer together than PR1b vs PR1h

If you told me this was left and right channel of an iem I would believe it XD


----------



## seanwee (Oct 28, 2022)

Little update on tip rolling the PLA13

I tried the stock silicone, stock foam, Sedna Xelastics, JVC spiral dots, Final type E and moondrop spring tips


In order of preference : Spring, Type E, JVC, Xelastics, foam, silicon

The spring tips tone down treble spikes a bit. Sound is surprisingly a little clearer and soundstage a little more spacious. Bass is less boomy.

The final type E almost fully tone down the treble at the cost of clarity. The pla sounds warm now. Mids are slightly toned down as well. Bass is more boomy.

Spiral dots make the mids a little clearer but more shouty. Treble unaffected. Bass is less boomy.   

Xelastics mids unaffected. Treble unaffected. Bass is less boomy.

The foams make the treble more muffled but peaks are still more prominent than say on the spring tips. Mids are muffled. Bass surpringly a bit less boomy?

Stock silicones are the worst ones imo. Boomy bass, average soundstage.

Comfort : Spring=JVC=Type E>silicon>foam=Xelastics

Reccomendation :   Spring tips if you just want less spicy treble and more controlled bass.

Type E if you already bought but found the PLAs to be too intense for you.

Perhaps Final Type Es could make the KZ PR1h a great iem.


----------



## Carpet

seanwee said:


> Little update on tip rolling the PLA13
> 
> I tried the stock silicone, stock foam, Sedna Xelastics, JVC spiral dots, Final type E and moondrop spring tips
> 
> ...


Okay, I guess that puts a 3 pack of XL Spring Tips on my shopping list!


----------



## PhonoPhi (Oct 28, 2022)

seanwee said:


> How did you like the CRA?
> Which parts of the sound did you think you liked and which parts did you not like?
> 
> Was the bass ok or would you like more/less bass? How were vocals, did you find them thin or ok?
> ...


I do use the lowest volume possible.
With this I did realize that the IEMs like Final E3000 are totally not working for me being a bass-overwhelming without turning volume up to get some treble.

I did find PR1 HiFi to be quite OK/nice for me in the treble. The individual sensitivities vary.
I really like CRA, totally amazing for $12, but that 5k peak really brings my treble sensitivities, while I can take a lot of 2-4 and 8K.
The same 5K makes Aria for me a bit spicy and not totally boring.

I do use Spiral dots and similar wide'bore tips. My take again is that the bore wider than the nozzle does not filter the sound and make tips just more of a passive coupler. I experimented with narrower tips, they can filter/tune in a right direction but with that comes the sensitivity to the insertion depth that I personally prefer to avoid.

Spring tips look nice and with 14-mm diameter available, they can work great, so I will order few pairs, thank you for the "tip". 

Lastly, but not leastly, the source is very important for planars, especially for their fast/agile transients, so the synergy there is most acute compared even to all-BAs. That is what I am currently working on exploring 

P. S. What are your sources?


----------



## r31ya

Wow, KZ is currently having open call for sound sig that people want to recreate in KZ budget price, "#KZTUNER Project"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/393894122913366/

People have been b*tching about KZ tuning in KZDiscord for quite some time,
especially after EdaBalance and Lyra who are well loved but then KZ goes back to their deep big bass V with their next iem (ESX, PLA13, PR1)...
This is apparently a move to say, "_Ok, if you like others sound sig, Bring it! we'll build it within budget range_"


>


----------



## seanwee

r31ya said:


> Wow, KZ is currently having open call for sound sig that people want to recreate in KZ budget price, "#KZTUNER Project"
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/393894122913366/
> 
> ...


I nominate Monarch Mk2 tuning. Best all round tuning imo.


----------



## r31ya

seanwee said:


> I nominate Monarch Mk2 tuning. Best all round tuning imo.


The end game of endgame for many2 people here


----------



## lushmelody

seanwee said:


> I nominate Monarch Mk2 tuning. Best all round tuning imo.


I dont know if they would do tribrid but full BA would be already amazing


----------



## seanwee

lushmelody said:


> I dont know if they would do tribrid but full BA would be already amazing


Definitely won’t have sonion ESTs but then again, I wouldn’t see the need to. The monarch mk2 doesn’t sound like it has an EST. So a decently capable BA tweeter setup would me more than enough.


----------



## r31ya

seanwee said:


> Definitely won’t have sonion ESTs but then again, I wouldn’t see the need to. The monarch mk2 doesn’t sound like it has an EST. So a decently capable BA tweeter setup would me more than enough.


which bring it the current issue of current KZ tuner setup method is by using 1 main full range driver (usually a DD) and then use several other driver as complementary (adding details or timbre).
instead of giving each driver their own space via crossover.

someone need to mention KZ need to start to invest in crossovers.


----------



## seanwee

r31ya said:


> which bring it the current issue of current KZ tuner setup method is by using 1 main full range driver (usually a DD) and then use several other driver as complementary (adding details or timbre).
> instead of giving each driver their own space via crossover.
> 
> someone need to mention KZ need to start to invest in crossovers.


Multiple drivers competing for sound will definitely make any benefits from multi-driver disappear.

In this case why not just do what hbb suggests and combine the bass of the PR1h with the treble of the PLA13, add some damping to smooth out the treble spikes and they should be golden. budget elysian annihilator.

Hopefully that’s what they are doing on their 2nd generation planars.


----------



## seanwee

PhonoPhi said:


> I do use the lowest volume possible.
> With this I did realize that the IEMs like Final E3000 are totally not working for me being a bass-overwhelming without turning volume up to get some treble.
> 
> I did find PR1 HiFi to be quite OK/nice for me in the treble. The individual sensitivities vary.
> ...


I use my DX160 for the bulk of my iem listening. The balanced output has a lot of power. Rarely bother with headphones nowadays since I got a nice set of bookshelf speakers. 

The cra was great until the peak at 4-5k which was the only thing that made it sound "cheap". Personally I appreciate an iem that is flat all the way from the pinna gain peak till 4k then it slowly goes down from there. And through the elysian annihilator, I found my love for a well placed boost (not peak) in the 10k region that really brings out the airiness and vertical soundstage expansion compared to its competitors which roll off the treble. It has the best utilised EST imo. 

As for tips I never liked narrower bore ones which generally have a more congested sound. Less comfortable in general as well for some reason.


----------



## pajicadvance

Hello everyone.

I have had a pair of KZ ZS10 Pro's for a bit less than a year now. A few weeks ago I noticed that the volume on the left IEM had decreased a bit. Due to me often having hearing problems I didn't think much of it, but yesterday I went for an ear cleaning and after using the earphones again, nothing changed.

After messing around for some time, I noticed that when I push the right IEM a bit further into my ear, I can feel the bass shaking up my eardrum a bit - when I do the same with the left IEM, this does not happen. I even tried shoving the left IEM into my right ear to confirm that I can't feel the shaking. So, this leads me to believe that one of the drivers is acting up.

I'm not exactly an expert on how IEMs work, is it possible that there is a loose contact in the IEM or something? Is it worth opening up the IEM and checking it out? If I do decide to open it up, what should I expect to find inside, and what part should I look for?


----------



## baskingshark

pajicadvance said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have had a pair of KZ ZS10 Pro's for a bit less than a year now. A few weeks ago I noticed that the volume on the left IEM had decreased a bit. Due to me often having hearing problems I didn't think much of it, but yesterday I went for an ear cleaning and after using the earphones again, nothing changed.
> 
> ...



If you have a measuring rig, that is the best objective way to show if certain frequencies are missing/imbalanced.

If you do not have it, perhaps you can go to youtube or online and find some frequency sweeps from 20 Hz to 20 kHz and check if one side is softer or skewed towards a certain ear for the bass frequencies.

Have you tried switching the cable sides and see if the issue is still present on the same earpiece?


----------



## Carpet

pajicadvance said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have had a pair of KZ ZS10 Pro's for a bit less than a year now. A few weeks ago I noticed that the volume on the left IEM had decreased a bit. Due to me often having hearing problems I didn't think much of it, but yesterday I went for an ear cleaning and after using the earphones again, nothing changed.
> 
> ...


Because it's on pushing for a deeper insertion, and also happening to the bass frequencies. I'd say it's probably driver flex with the DD on that side. Maybe check the vents?


----------



## Jansvast

seanwee said:


> I nominate Monarch Mk2 tuning. Best all round tuning imo.


EJ07M or Tea 2 please


----------



## pajicadvance

baskingshark said:


> If you do not have it, perhaps you can go to youtube or online and find some frequency sweeps from 20 Hz to 20 kHz and check if one side is softer or skewed towards a certain ear for the bass frequencies.


Tried this, it's obvious that the left IEM is softer, it doesn't vibrate from the bass as much as the right IEM does, if that makes sense.



baskingshark said:


> Have you tried switching the cable sides and see if the issue is still present on the same earpiece?


Good idea... unfortunately, it's still the left IEM that's having issues.



Carpet said:


> I'd say it's probably driver flex with the DD on that side. Maybe check the vents?


I'm not exactly sure what those are? I can see that there is a small hole in each IEM if that's what you mean, they don't seem to be obstructed or covered in any way though.


----------



## Carpet

pajicadvance said:


> I'm not exactly sure what those are? I can see that there is a small hole in each IEM if that's what you mean, they don't seem to be obstructed or covered in any way though.


Those small holes will be the vents. There are also 3 small holes on the faceplate if I recall correctly.

TL DR; obstructed vents aren't good (unless you are doing it deliberately to alter tuning)


----------



## pajicadvance

Carpet said:


> Those small holes will be the vents. There are also 3 small holes on the faceplate if I recall correctly.
> 
> TL DR; obstructed vents aren't good (unless you are doing it deliberately to alter tuning)


You may have a point... Upon further inspection, there are actually 5 holes on each IEM, 3 on the faceplate and 2 on the back. There does indeed seem like there's some junk in there, but I think if I were to take something like a needle and try to clean it, it would just push the junk further inside... Besides, the vents on the right IEM aren't any cleaner than the ones on the left IEM, but it's working correctly.

I don't have the correct size screwdriver to open this thing up at the moment (I have like one size larger, sad) so it may take some time until I get my hands on it.

Thanks for your responses though, they were quite useful!


----------



## r31ya

So... remember KZ have that release schedule..., yeah
This is *KZ EDC-X, *Their cheapest variant, 1DD with fixed cable. the old one is priced lower than EDX.



Apparently this is the first round of their KZ-Tuners projects (something that i'm not sure how that suppose to work),
I guess, its a statement by making a sub $15 (or possibly even sub $10) Harman target IEM.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Nov 3, 2022)

r31ya said:


> So... remember KZ have that release schedule..., yeah
> This is *KZ EDC-X, *Their cheapest variant, 1DD with fixed cable. the old one is priced lower than EDX.
> 
> 
> ...


I've always felt that KZ does really like to turn on the screws in the sub $15 market. Always going to their origins of being this brand that simply wows you every time with the sound at a dirt cheap price point. If they manage to marry their existing bass quality+quantity with a natural tonality of the Harman target then their high end models automatically will give a lot of the competition in the sub $100 category a run for their money. IMO they don't need to create a dead neutrally tuned IEMs because that's unlike them.

They sound really determined to prove that they're not some cheap brand but serious IEM tuners who can challenge the best. Sounds even more fantastic considering this then also potentially can end the driver wars that they themselves initiated in the first place by packing bazillion drivers in an IEM. 😂😂

But with Harman target they have a golden opportunity to turn the tide for both casual and nitpicking consumers alike.


----------



## seanwee (Nov 4, 2022)

Question for you guys who have the PR1b/PR1h/PLA13

Do you find the bass kinda weak relative to the quantity?

Its a lot of bass yeah, but it feels less tactile than DD iems that have less bass. Ie you hear it more but don't feel it as much.

I don't main planar iems so I'm curious what you guys think about this disconnect. Do planars just not move as much air or is it something else?


----------



## DynamicEars (Nov 4, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Question for you guys who have the PR1b/PR1h/PLA13
> 
> Do you find the bass kinda weak relative to the quantity?
> 
> ...



I don't have those But I have timeless, i mod them so bass really open (default is too overdampened) but yes i concur that planar bass is more like BA bass, there is sub and mid bass presence but little air moving feeling that responsible for the impact. Still better than most BA though

On positive side, planar bass is so precise that on mid upper bass, they wont smear as much as DD, so planar bass usually tighter and precise. While all details and texture is an added bonuses


----------



## Carpet

seanwee said:


> Question for you guys who have the PR1b/PR1h/PLA13
> 
> Do you find the bass kinda weak relative to the quantity?
> 
> ...


I have the PLA13 but it's out on loan, so this is from memory. Planar bass does seem intermediate between BA and DD bass. PLA has most bass by far of my planars, but if a DD set was tuned like that I'd expect them to pop out of my ears!


----------



## DynamicEars

Carpet said:


> I have the PLA13 but it's out on loan, so this is from memory. Planar bass does seem intermediate between BA and DD bass. PLA has most bass by far of my planars, but if a DD set was tuned like that I'd expect them to pop out of my ears!


This.


----------



## seanwee

DynamicEars said:


> I don't have those But I have timeless, i mod them so bass really open (default is too overdampened) but yes i concur that planar bass is more like BA bass, there is sub and mid bass presence but little air moving feeling that responsible for the impact. Still better than most BA though
> 
> On positive side, planar bass is so precise that on mid upper bass, they wont smear as much as DD, so planar bass usually tighter and precise. While all details and texture is an added bonuses





Carpet said:


> I have the PLA13 but it's out on loan, so this is from memory. Planar bass does seem intermediate between BA and DD bass. PLA has most bass by far of my planars, but if a DD set was tuned like that I'd expect them to pop out of my ears!


While I do concur with those statements. My experience with planar headphones are the opposite. 

Yes it's definitely faster, tighter and more precise than DD headphones, they also have more oomph. Which is why I'm questioning my experience with planar iems. 

Perhaps driver excursion isn't ample enough in iem planar drivers?


----------



## DynamicEars

seanwee said:


> While I do concur with those statements. My experience with planar headphones are the opposite.
> 
> Yes it's definitely faster, tighter and more precise than DD headphones, they also have more oomph. Which is why I'm questioning my experience with planar iems.
> 
> Perhaps driver excursion isn't ample enough in iem planar drivers?



THey do need juice but my M11 plus ESS and dx160 definitely can drive them well, maybe characteristic of the planar drivers themselves, while planar headphones benefit from the giant size planar and maybe other things like tuning and construction?
but planar bass on IEMs arent bad at all, as a very picky bass quality person i like the bass on timeless (modded), they similar like bass on IER M7 and M9 (open BA), but with better tuning. THe sony open BA are better than traditional BA bass and have more impact like small DD, little impact, the planar bass is similar like that, like @Carpet said too, like a hybrid of DD and BA bass. The smaller planar driver maybe have less impact too, like the one in Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 (more like SPD to me) that one also have no impact.


----------



## seanwee

DynamicEars said:


> THey do need juice but my M11 plus ESS and dx160 definitely can drive them well, maybe characteristic of the planar drivers themselves, while planar headphones benefit from the giant size planar and maybe other things like tuning and construction?
> but planar bass on IEMs arent bad at all, as a very picky bass quality person i like the bass on timeless (modded), they similar like bass on IER M7 and M9 (open BA), but with better tuning. THe sony open BA are better than traditional BA bass and have more impact like small DD, little impact, the planar bass is similar like that, like @Carpet said too, like a hybrid of DD and BA bass. The smaller planar driver maybe have less impact too, like the one in Huawei Freebuds Pro 2 (more like SPD to me) that one also have no impact.


Yeah, the M9 sounds like a hybrid more than some hybrid sets. 

Curious how you modded the Timeless.


----------



## r31ya

r31ya said:


> So... remember KZ have that release schedule..., yeah
> This is *KZ EDC-X, *Their cheapest variant, 1DD with fixed cable. the old one is priced lower than EDX.
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, *KZ EDC-X *is out a *$9.5, *1DD, Harman target IEM
https://id.aliexpress.com/item/1005...a2g0o.store_pc_home.productList_2911412.pic_0


----------



## DynamicEars

seanwee said:


> Yeah, the M9 sounds like a hybrid more than some hybrid sets.
> 
> Curious how you modded the Timeless.



Default timeless have 3 dampers, thats why they sounded :
1. overdampened
2. bloated / trapped bass
3. wrecked imaging
4. weird timbre because of the dampers took out the tail of notes too fast

I was impressed by details at first time hearing Timeless, but like "wow these are great with its details, but weird soundstage and wrecked imaging". But as I have modded lot of IEMs, I know that there is something wrong with the damper and I opened them up :
there are 3 dampers
Behind the grill, there is nylon mesh damper like most chifi, this have advantage to reduce high mids from 2khz until 8khz with most affected frequencies are 2-4khz (I did my homework with lot of dampers and measured them with coupler) I know they want to reduce 2.5khz from the driver.
Secondly there is foam damper below that nylon damper, the foam is have lower density than the "medium density foam", and I guess the reason they are using this is for tame the 7-8khz boost that caused sibilance.
And the last damper in on the driver, I didn't open the driver so I just leave this. 

Sound coming from the planar driver, dampened by the foam damper on the driver, and flow go to foam (2nd damper) which put on the nozzle that blocks everything, with the 3rd damper attached to it also, the nylon mesh damper, edges are blunted, imaging is wrecked, still they have details but they are overdampened

So reverse engineering method and what I did is :
1. take off the grill
2. take off the nylon mesh under the grill
3. take off the foam under the nylon mesh with tweezer gently (don't push it down or it will be difficult to get it)
4. change the foam with medium density foam but sideways so there are holes on right and left, but enough to absorb the 7-8khz peaks
5. close the nozzle with mesh 500 or tanchjim hana / tanya filter with little, very little cut out on side to make airflow

With that, the airflow is good, 7-8khz peaks are handled by foam and last the 2.5khz peak is tamed by tanchjim filter with small hole to keep airflow is good. Thus, the modded Timeless have more details, better timbre, better bass obviously, large soundstage to the left and right (depth is average still), and sharp imaging (but with less depth so not quite 3D or holographic but very precise layering to the left and right). Not perfect still due nature of the driver, but much better especially on bass and imaging.

I owe pictures and steps since last time, think I will make a dedicated thread for mods


----------



## DynamicEars

r31ya said:


> Yup, *KZ EDC-X *is out a *$9.5, *1DD, Harman target IEM
> https://id.aliexpress.com/item/1005004915728079.html?pdp_npi=2@dis!USD!US $15.84!US $9.50!!!!!@2101e9d516675487004238503e0216!12000031005814628!sh01&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.productList_2911412.pic_0



Not bad bass shelf, but high mids if the graph is true, its +13db pinna gain. Hopefully its the raw tuning without nylon damper so i can put filter to tame high mids. Price is tempting for sure


----------



## Carpet

seanwee said:


> While I do concur with those statements. My experience with planar headphones are the opposite.
> 
> Yes it's definitely faster, tighter and more precise than DD headphones, they also have more oomph. Which is why I'm questioning my experience with planar iems.
> 
> Perhaps driver excursion isn't ample enough in iem planar drivers?


That would fit. Planar diaphragm is stretched taut, whereas the surround on a dynamic is concertinaed to enable the diaphragm to remain rigid and move back and forth somewhat more freely. Planar voice coil is also (usually) constrained by space to laminate a flat coil on the surface. I have no idea how the effective strength of the magnetic field differs between the array of small magnets in planar vs one large magnet in DD. Assume also that coils crashing into the magnets is bad in either case, so some limit on travel is essential. Less effective coil and taut diaphragm in planar should mean less energy and more resistance to movement. Hence higher power requirement and/or less displacement of diaphragm. Planar will have faster attack/decay as force is applied uniformly across it's surface, rather than being propagated from a central point, so every part of membrane will be in phase. The oomph may be the sharpness of attack not the amount of air moved? Although it could also be that the delay in propagation of movement across a conical diaphragm causes an out of phase cancelation of part of the energy (like putting 2 DDs out of phase in a DQ6, who even needs glue).

Just a guess, physics was a looooong time ago!   

I'd be interested to hear if anybody with a better background can shed some light on this. Someone with a sound engineering background must have started sniffing their own product and ended up here?


----------



## seanwee

Carpet said:


> Although it could also be that the delay in propagation of movement across a conical diaphragm causes an out of phase cancelation of part of the energy (like putting 2 DDs out of phase in a DQ6, who even needs glue).


----------



## evasb

Looks like CXS and EDC-X will be similar (following the harman target)


----------



## seanwee

evasb said:


> Looks like CXS and EDC-X will be similar (following the harman target)


Seems poorly excecuted though


----------



## r31ya

seanwee said:


> Seems poorly excecuted though


yeah, some misses here and there
but then again its *$9.5*, now if the Dynamic Driver can give clean-ish sound with decent resolution... it will be pretty easy rec.


----------



## r31ya

Interesting, upon asking about PR1 pro in KZ discord, their response is this.



> _Yes, new type of eartips, and better cable
> For old user who bought the old version of PR1 (HIFI edition/ balanced version) or PLA13 , all enjoy half of price to buy PR1 PRO
> PR1 pro price will be a little bit higher than old version PR1, because after upgrade the performance, the pro version requires more stricter to the planar material, and requires the technical , components assembled to be more accurate
> 
> ...



I ask whether this is the second gen planar, and its not answered (yet)
It seems to be more than just cable and eartips change 
heh, easier to driver, more center vocals, more relaxed and natural sounding... seems all good direction

and for all its discord debacle on "hobbyist" graphing, it seems KZ try to upgrade their eartips and cable to ensure 3rd party graph will be more similar with their official graph...


----------



## PotatoMEZE

It has been burned-in for 100 hours.
It's harder to drive than Pla13.
I have no problem with bass. 
Treble was powerful, but it was too much, causing a dissonance.
Overall, I couldn't bear to finish listening to even one song. 
I might be wrong or maybe there's some defect with it. I still prefer Pla13. *Only my opinion.   *
I'm pretty busy these days. Even picking up an EE Odyssey that arrived yesterday. But I had to postpone it today.
*However, I hope everyone enjoys listening to the music. *

lazy man / A man who rarely uses social media  (Sorry, I may not answer much.)


----------



## Sharppain

DynamicEars said:


> Default timeless have 3 dampers, thats why they sounded :
> 1. overdampened
> 2. bloated / trapped bass
> 3. wrecked imaging
> ...


Hmm, will think over it - less depth worries me. Thank you.


----------



## DynamicEars

Sharppain said:


> Hmm, will think over it - less depth worries me. Thank you.



No i meant depth isnt less than original. Better than default but they don't have great Soundstage depth from the start (more like wide stretched oval shape)
Sorry for my confusing words.


----------



## Aparker2005

Alright everyone our band is buying new iems for the 11.11 sale. 

I'm currently in love with my CCA CA16 that unfortunately went out on me, so I planned to go with it. For my drumming on stage and fit, they've been the best kz/CCA I've used. 

Should I look for any others while I'm at it? I have KZ DQ6 and CCA CRN also right now, DQ6 being close 2nd to the Ca16. 

Just looking for last minute opinions/recommendations. Thanks!


----------



## PotatoMEZE

Aparker2005 said:


> Alright everyone our band is buying new iems for the 11.11 sale.
> 
> I'm currently in love with my CCA CA16 that unfortunately went out on me, so I planned to go with it. For my drumming on stage and fit, they've been the best kz/CCA I've used.
> 
> ...


If you like DQ6S or DQ6, you *should try* BGVP Scale (2DD) and BGVP Scale Pro (1BA+1DD). Considering the price. Choose as you like.


----------



## Carpet

Aparker2005 said:


> Alright everyone our band is buying new iems for the 11.11 sale.
> 
> I'm currently in love with my CCA CA16 that unfortunately went out on me, so I planned to go with it. For my drumming on stage and fit, they've been the best kz/CCA I've used.
> 
> ...


Audiosense AQ0 is about half price. TinHifi T2 DLC for about $35 (TinHifi Global Store), probably not the best choice for monitoring though, as that type of shell isn't so good for isolation. The IKKO OH2 is $37 at the IKKO Lot store, mid-centric so it would suit vocals and guitars. KZ ZS10 Pro X is supposed to be pretty good (I haven't heard it myself), it should have better isolation than TRN ST1 as it doesn't have all metal shell, also less fatiguing. Coupons are worth checking for and also the $3 rebate per $30 is worth making orders up to get better discount (only up to $90). You still have a day and a bit left, happy hunting! 

CCA CA16 is still available AFAIK.


----------



## KipNix

Aparker2005 said:


> Alright everyone our band is buying new iems for the 11.11 sale.
> 
> I'm currently in love with my CCA CA16 that unfortunately went out on me, so I planned to go with it. For my drumming on stage and fit, they've been the best kz/CCA I've used.
> 
> ...


Compare and contrast using reviews in here, to the sister company with all-BA:
KZ AS16 Pro.


----------



## Aparker2005

I ended up going with the As16 Pro in addition to the Ca16 with the good reviews I saw. I liked the original as16 but they seemed to lack some bass for my drums. As16 Pro seems to have fixed that


----------



## InvisibleInk

Aparker2005 said:


> Alright everyone our band is buying new iems for the 11.11 sale.
> 
> I'm currently in love with my CCA CA16 that unfortunately went out on me, so I planned to go with it. For my drumming on stage and fit, they've been the best kz/CCA I've used.
> 
> ...



The budget CCA CSN has phenomenal bass with a capable DD and a good BA to top off the treble nicely. It is a criminally underrated set.


----------



## nraymond

Aparker2005 said:


> I ended up going with the As16 Pro in addition to the Ca16 with the good reviews I saw. I liked the original as16 but they seemed to lack some bass for my drums. As16 Pro seems to have fixed that


The bass and sub-bass on the AS16 Pro is great.


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

InvisibleInk said:


> The budget CCA CSN has phenomenal bass with a capable DD and a good BA to top off the treble nicely. It is a criminally underrated set.


Has anyone tested the BA that its actually contributing to the FR?


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> Has anyone tested the BA that its actually contributing to the FR?


There will come a time that KZ is allowed to forget that particular episode. My guess is 2046!


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Carpet said:


> There will come a time that KZ is allowed to forget that particular episode. My guess is 2046!


I mean it is a fair question...I own plenty of KZ products and will continue to buy them.  But once you have done that, all your future product can and should be questioned,


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> I mean it is a fair question...I own plenty of KZ products and will continue to buy them.  But once you have done that, all your future product can and should be questioned,


I find your lack of faith... appropriate. If you return home at 5am with lipstick on your collar and a pair of panties in your pocket, there will be questions!


----------



## Plumbus the Wise

Carpet said:


> I find your lack of faith... appropriate. If you return home at 5am with lipstick on your collar and a pair of panties in your pocket, there will be questions!


What if I have lipstick on my pocket and panties on my collar?


----------



## Carpet

Plumbus the Wise said:


> What if I have lipstick on my pocket and panties on my collar?


Then you are showing some progress in covering your tracks, but probably not enough. Having your head down someone's panties will still get you in trouble! 

(This is a merely hypothetical statement, any resemblance to events concerning parties living or dead is coincidental)


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Nov 12, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Then you are showing some progress in covering your tracks, but probably not enough. Having your head down someone's panties will still get you in trouble!
> 
> (This is a merely hypothetical statement, any resemblance to events concerning parties living or dead is coincidental)


next time, don’t stay overnight at the first place(get full BA set)😂 just joking.

Well KZ now acts like a gateway keeper for budget IEMs, some of old folk may still remember their ZS5 was a mere copycat of andromedas.  KZ isn’t a saint from the beginning.

Anyway, I’d like to input, how much I appreciate ZAS these days.

This W-shape tuned 7BA hybrids certainly is my favorite of KZ now.  ZAS is not a med fi gate keepers (such as blessing2/bravery/canon or aladdin/SA6/Tea) beater, but not miles away, either. 

Considering the price around $50USD, I feel ZAS has very good cost to performance ratio.  And If I was asked to pick a BA+DD IEM for $50 to live with forever,  ZAS would be.  Yes technicalities are not perfect, and there are small dips and peaks that cause imaging to blur, but not bad at all.

Hope KZ never gives up BA+DD segment and someday comes up with ZAS PRO, an LCP XUN DD + next gen 50024s  + next gen 30019s someday.

The tubeless design of BAs idea for ZAS is good and nicely executed, hope they keep improving that.

50024 x 6 to handle mid-high, retain one tweeter (30019) worked great, the XUN DD handles sub bass pretty neatly, KZ style V with neutrality in mind, and added mid boost to make a mild W shape is good too.
The hardware specs of KZ’s are not top of the world quality, so if they make a perfect main stream harman one, the quality of hardware would simply be more prominent, that’s how I felt from ZEX PRO and CRN. So ZAS’s KZ W-shape tuning is something unique and it’s facing warm neutral’s area where Tea/Aladdin is sitting around right now.


----------



## zachmal

Is there a approach or method to get the newly enhanced PR1 (Hifi) "pro" ?

what is included in the package ?

who to talk to ? which shop on aliexpress ?

Quite liking the PR1 Hifi so far - it hasn't gotten much playtime yet, but it's pretty good

KZ starline ear tips might not be the best for it - luckily the shop gave away additional eartips and those help to not tickle the hearing sense too much with the treble (or treble-heavy tracks)


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## r31ya

zachmal said:


> Is there a approach or method to get the newly enhanced PR1 (Hifi) "pro" ?
> 
> what is included in the package ?
> 
> ...


Its not released yet

It will be on kz webstore or ali when it already out. 

Pr1pro will come with new cable and memory foam tips. Not sure about the rest of the packaging, kz usually stingy with it. 

You can apply for 50% off if you already bought old pr1 or pla13 via their official store


----------



## zachmal

r31ya said:


> Its not released yet
> 
> It will be on kz webstore or ali when it already out.
> 
> ...


well, then I might be out of luck (hopefully not)

I ordered the KZ PR1 Hifi from a shop other than the official one

let's hope they still have that offer when having ordered from other shops ...


----------



## Carpet

zachmal said:


> well, then I might be out of luck (hopefully not)
> 
> I ordered the KZ PR1 Hifi from a shop other than the official one
> 
> let's hope they still have that offer when having ordered from other shops ...


If they don't support that offer through other stores it will hurt their market share. Both through annoyed customers and reluctance of other outlets to stock their products!


----------



## r31ya (Nov 15, 2022)

Extra info on KZ PR1 Pro, from kz rep in discord



> Here is more details about upcoming KZ PR1 PRO.
> From PR1 (Balanced/HIFI edition) to PR1 PRO , here are the upgrade points :
> 
> a.) The faceplate color will be different , the last version is matt silver color, the new version will be glossy shiny silver color.
> ...



tl;dr, new cosmetic+cable+eartips, revised driver, reduced bass and treble, increased 1khz
(50% discount if you have bought Pla13 or previous PR1 in KZ official store. apparently will be available later today and sold in higher price than standard PR1 due to upgraded acc)


----------



## zachmal

r31ya said:


> Extra info on KZ PR1 Pro, from kz rep in discord
> 
> 
> 
> ...


now that feels like a *real* "pro" release, upgrade - vs. the meagre occasional changes in eartips and cable only in certain other models and brands with premium price increases afterwards -_- 

thanks for posting !


----------



## r31ya

Its out, KZ the second gen planar, KZ PR1 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...kpw&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.slider_70171766.0

Second gen planar, new cable, new memory foam tip (to suppress the treble it seems)





>



apparently $20 extra over the old one for the new driver and "upgraded package". While the new package have new cable and eartips, its still fairly sparse.
apparently the goal now is to reduce the bass to reveal more details, control the treble to make it less spicy and up the 1k to for staging? (the do say,more centered vocals)


----------



## Carpet (Nov 16, 2022)

r31ya said:


> Its out, KZ the second gen planar, KZ PR1 Pro
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...kpw&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.slider_70171766.0
> 
> Second gen planar, new cable, new memory foam tip (to suppress the treble it seems)
> ...


LOL, no mention of earlier purchase required either. Just the coupon. And I wonder if the retune consists of more than the "NEW" slow rebound memory foam tips. If I was a suspicious man (possible), I might wonder what the difference between graphing the old version with starlines vs foam tips would look like?

Okay I am suspicious. Someone with a graphing rig and the PR1 Hifi do that! Pretty please?

Still no metal nozzle either. C'mon you cheap B.stards, you put the price up. Why not? It used to be the mark of your more premium offerings!


----------



## Mr.HiAudio

Already ordered  ~ -50%(coupon under description) . I think, that this is a pre-sale, and need to waiting a long time :/


----------



## Carpet

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Already ordered  ~ -50%(coupon under description) . I think, that this is a pre-sale, and need to waiting a long time :/


I grabbed coupon, it's good for 5 days. I can wait, interestingly that makes this cheaper than PR1 Hifi.
Any guesses as to what will be on sale for Black Friday?


----------



## r31ya (Nov 16, 2022)

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Already ordered  ~ -50%(coupon under description) . I think, that this is a pre-sale, and need to waiting a long time :/


last time i got kz presale (who never mentioned as such) it took 11 days before it got shipped. not arrive but start to "ship"
apparently others have faster shipping time, but yeah.


----------



## Mr.HiAudio (Nov 16, 2022)

r31ya said:


> last time i got kz presale (who never mentioned as such) it took 11 days before it got shipped. not arrive but start to "ship"
> apparently others have faster shipping time, but yeah.


communicated with the manager by mail - they said that when ordering through the site they will send it immediately, whether or not I don’t know, and decided to wait for the lot on aliexpress  Only one big problem - KZ has not a guarantee, and if you got a iems with glue/broken - disput only and ship it back, no mean what store from you buy (sadly). And first batch, maybe, have a so so QC


----------



## Atek2019

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Already ordered  ~ -50%(coupon under description) . I think, that this is a pre-sale, and need to waiting a long time :/


Ordered ! and... pray !!!


----------



## bhazard

Ordered the PR1 Pro because of the promo price, but...
If these aren't a clear improvement over the PR1 Hifi, I'm done with chasing KZ/CCA sets for awhile. The last few have been pretty good (HM20, ZS10 Pro X), but the PLA13 and PR1 are basically throwaways now.

Adorama just put the Euclid on sale with a 4.4 cable and aptX HD BT module for $399. Considering the $1,299 retail price of that, and the ~$200 of extras, this makes more sense than multiple KZ/CCA/TRN/Truthear etc etc IEMs.


----------



## Atek2019

bhazard said:


> Ordered the PR1 Pro because of the promo price, but...
> If these aren't a clear improvement over the PR1 Hifi, I'm done with chasing KZ/CCA sets for awhile.



I'm with you


----------



## ChristianM

I'm gonna buy PR1 Pro and sell it and make a good profit, I already order Olina SE during 11.11.
If KZ had a plan to sell PR1 Pro in half price then why did they play a drama that PR1 & CCA PLA13 owner will be offering to pay half price for PR1 Pro?


----------



## zachmal

Carpet said:


> I grabbed coupon, it's good for 5 days. I can wait, interestingly that makes this cheaper than PR1 Hifi.
> Any guesses as to what will be on sale for Black Friday?


doesn't even ship to my location

so if it's exclusive to only that shop - then I'm really out of luck - still, even with 40 USD off (coupon that I saw) it costs the same like what I paid for the PR1 Hifi in another shop

not really enticed to buy it - not really having that much cash to spare -_-


----------



## r31ya (Nov 17, 2022)

zachmal said:


> doesn't even ship to my location
> 
> so if it's exclusive to only that shop - then I'm really out of luck - still, even with 40 USD off (coupon that I saw) it costs the same like what I paid for the PR1 Hifi in another shop
> 
> not really enticed to buy it - not really having that much cash to spare -_-


There is anothe shop via kztws.com

---

Also, PR1 pro compared to older PR1 hifi
(Kz provided graph digitized by G777 from kz discord)




---
update, Per Ian-Fann measurement, PR1 pro vs PR1 Hifi vs S12 vs timeless


>


----------



## crabdog

Just published my KZ PR1 HiFi review. Amazing value and is a great place to start with planar IEMs if you haven't tried one.


----------



## crabdog

IMO, the 'Pro' model looks to be kinda bright. What do y'all think?


----------



## r31ya

crabdog said:


> IMO, the 'Pro' model looks to be kinda bright. What do y'all think?


ianfann early impression goes "Airy neutral-ish"


----------



## seanwee

r31ya said:


> There is anothe shop via kztws.com
> 
> ---
> 
> ...





crabdog said:


> IMO, the 'Pro' model looks to be kinda bright. What do y'all think?


That's interesting...

Anyone remember HBB's comment that if KZ/CCA combined the bass response of the PR1h with the treble of the PLA13 then it would be a promising iem? 

That's what i'm taking away from these graphs.

Ordered  
Half off coupon really sweetened the deal


----------



## seanwee

Carpet said:


> LOL, no mention of earlier purchase required either. Just the coupon. And I wonder if the retune consists of more than the "NEW" slow rebound memory foam tips. If I was a suspicious man (possible), I might wonder what the difference between graphing the old version with starlines vs foam tips would look like?


Doesn't look like the PR1 Pros


----------



## r31ya (Nov 18, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Doesn't look like the PR1 Pros


Paul Wasabi comparison between PR1 Hifi with new Memory Foam tip (Red) and PR1 Pro purple





He wanna check whether the "pro" aspect is simply caused by the new foam tips, the graph shows it wasn't the case.
---

*HiFri dissection on whats inside PR1 Hifi and explanation on drivers*



---

*Also Ianfann early impression on PR1 Pro*


---

*KZ  PR1 Pro review by Bernard Loh*
Didn't quite know who this is (found him on facebook of all things) and pretty sure only early review units that now out there, so take this review with grain of salt.
but its pretty interesting to read as i hunt for PR1 Pro info.



> *KZ PR1 PRO Planar Magnetic IEM
> Pros*: Good thumpy and slamming bass
> Fast transient speed on planar driver
> Budgetly priced compared to competitors
> ...


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Nov 19, 2022)

XerusKun said:


> Hello I'm new in this thread. Just want to ask, I've just seen the newly release KZ T10 headphones circulating in Facebook and I'm mildly intrested, is there any review thread for the T10 that I can look and read?


Super delayed response.

I was about to post T10 impression and looked on headfi search.

Anyway, long story short: Avoid, not worth even $50.

-ANC’s mic resonate badly sometime, and it amplifies the resonance, simply out: a failed ANC.

-SQ is sub par, mainstream one note bloat bass dominating all spectrum to hide poor mid and upper range sound quality

-good thing is it has dial style vol adjuster on housing, and battery last pretty well

-I purchased this T10 for my guest bedroom TV, it at least serves as your daily TV speaker quality but not for music

-Moondrop’s $32 Nekocake has better sound quality than T10, get that TWS instead.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Anyone got CCA HM20’s third-party FR chart?

From the spec it looks like a ZAS with 3rd gen XUN.


----------



## lgcubana

r31ya said:


> _…Yes, new type of eartips, and better cable
> For old user who bought the old version of PR1 (HIFI edition/ balanced version) or PLA13 , all enjoy half of price to buy PR1 PRO
> PR1 pro price will be a little bit higher than old version PR1, because after upgrade the performance, _*the pro version requires more stricter to the planar material, and requires the technical , components assembled to be more accurate*


If KZ is only going to use the planars with tighter tolerances (for the Pro), I wonder where they’ll  dump the b-stock drivers ?


----------



## r31ya (Nov 21, 2022)

lgcubana said:


> If KZ is only going to use the planars with tighter tolerances (for the Pro), I wonder where they’ll  dump the b-stock drivers ?


Not sure, their silver cable and more importantly the very flimsy white eartips is kinda long overdue on need to be upgrade.
When we ask kz-rep for default cable upgrade following TRN modular cable release, but KZ statedly have no interest on it...
few weeks after saying that, PR1 PRO arrive with new cable and eartips...
so yeah.


----------



## r31ya

AmericanSpirit said:


> Anyone got CCA HM20’s third-party FR chart?
> 
> From the spec it looks like a ZAS with 3rd gen XUN.



CCA HM20 driver testing FR chart by kz critics DeltaFyre


----------



## Carpet

lgcubana said:


> If KZ is only going to use the planars with tighter tolerances (for the Pro), I wonder where they’ll  dump the b-stock drivers ?


BLACK FRIDAY, XMAS, NEW YEAR!... Chinese New Year, Summer Sale, 11/11/2023.....


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Nov 21, 2022)

r31ya said:


> CCA HM20 driver testing FR chart by kz critics DeltaFyre


It does look like the official one. Thanks!

It looks KZ/CCA still struggled over driver transition over 200hz 1khz


----------



## lgcubana

I don’t know if this has been posted already, but here’s a disassembly of the PR1: Link to YouTube
*Skip to the 52 minute mark

*


----------



## r31ya

new impression on KZ PR1 Pro


----------



## BrunoC

I bought the PR1 Pro with the discount coupon from the KZ Franchised Store, but it still hasn't be delivered yet. It's usually faster than 4 Days..


----------



## r31ya

BrunoC said:


> I bought the PR1 Pro with the discount coupon from the KZ Franchised Store, but it still hasn't be delivered yet. It's usually faster than 4 Days..


per my experience with buying ESX, KZ first week sales will take it sweet time before start shipping.
mine should be start to send today (bought 18-nov, est start delivery 23-nov) but i think it will be delayed.
my ESX takes 11 days to start to get shipped.


----------



## Carpet

BrunoC said:


> I bought the PR1 Pro with the discount coupon from the KZ Franchised Store, but it still hasn't be delivered yet. It's usually faster than 4 Days..





r31ya said:


> per my experience with buying ESX, KZ first week sales will take it sweet time before start shipping.
> mine should be start to send today (bought 18-nov, est start delivery 23-nov) but i think it will be delayed.
> my ESX takes 11 days to start to get shipped.


Same here, I regard any KZ new release as a hype train in anticipation of a bloody product becoming availible!

That also explains their extensive product testing before release to I suppose.

"Where are the new KZ RSX152-Pro Turbo X Max Ultra we put up on the site last Tuesday? We have 1,837 orders to fill!"

"Once the factory re-opens after the lockdown, we still have about 15,000 backorders of our last six releases to produce! Oh, and the proto-type of the  KZ RSX152-Pro Turbo X Max Ultra won't be ready until Friday anyway." (muffled coments made to someone not on the call seem to indicate that the manager in charge of this lemon coloured or flavoured IEM is named "Richard Cranium", but the translation is unclear).


----------



## seanwee

BrunoC said:


> I bought the PR1 Pro with the discount coupon from the KZ Franchised Store, but it still hasn't be delivered yet. It's usually faster than 4 Days..


Likewise. Hope it doesn't get cancelled


----------



## Atek2019

seanwee said:


> Likewise. Hope it doesn't get cancelled


they just shipped mine yesterday, bought @ KZ official store (aliexpress). Ordered on 17 nov, 2022


----------



## zachmal

Atek2019 said:


> they just shipped mine yesterday, bought @ KZ official store (aliexpress). Ordered on 17 nov, 2022


I ordered mine at kztws.com and 3 days ago it was announced to dhl - 1 day later it was changed to being in transit to dhl


----------



## Atek2019

zachmal said:


> I ordered mine at kztws.com and 3 days ago it was announced to dhl - 1 day later it was changed to being in transit to dhl






the shipping status of my order


----------



## Hustler

KZ PR1 Pro looks promising, but discount code no longer works. I didn't buy anything during autumn sales for the first time.


----------



## r31ya (Nov 25, 2022)

Comparison between KZ PR1 Pro vs TangZu Zetian Wu by Chifi Audio Review (David Faulkner)



> I did an A+B test with tangzu zeitian Wu and KZ PR1 pro with a xinhs modular cable on the Tempotec V6 dap using KBear L tips, which me give a better seal and bass response ( I'm not an expert and my opinion is subjective )
> 
> *Bass  *- the midbass has good impact and a nice slam on both, and has fast decay which is natural with planars, it's nicely controlled as well, it doesn't muddy up the track much, it's nice and balanced with decent quantity and both have good quality bass, the sub bass has decent rumble and slightly bleeds into the midrange but it's nothing major.overall the bass is ballanced and deep
> *Midrange *- this surprised me quite a bit, they are very similar, the midrange is coherent and clear with good Ballance on both, instruments can be heard clearly and separation is good on both, I would say the midrange is slightly more forward on the zeitian wus and has better extension in the upper midrange, and slightly more mid bass, the midrange seem a bit less congested than on the Wu and seem clearer on the KZ PR 1 pro which was surprising.female and male vocals aren't shouty and sound about the same. The timbre has a dash of warmth to it, yet is clear and note weight doesn't seem thin, and isnt to recessed
> ...




Pretty Consistent with the S12 comparison.
somewhat Equal in bass, losing slightly in clarity on mid and treble.
not sure its the tuning or the current limit of KZ planars.
But not one complains about the tuning, i guess the tuning is pretty spot on.

it seems for $40 (on discount) its a steal, for $80 its still pretty decent consideration whether you want to simply buy PR1 Pro or save up a bit more to go $120~150 for the Wu or S12 who at this point are a clear step up.
---
New KZ Pokemon

KZ H10 ($82), Bluetooth headphone











Fairly sus as no graph published and no mention Bluetooth chip use or coded that they could use.
Considering their last Bluetooth headphone is quite the disaster, let's see how this one goes.


----------



## XerusKun (Nov 26, 2022)

Poked the front vent of PR1 Balanced with a needle, first iteration is I poked the front vent 2 times, then last iteration is the complete massacre of the front vent, basically poking it multiple times.

*The result?*
A wider, more immersive, mid forward PR1. This sounds legit amazing... The bloated bass is gone, kinda reminds me of ZEX but with resolution in steroids..














Spoiler



Massacre that front vent to unleash the monster.


​Edit: Forgot to apply the correction to the measurements...






Spoiler



More Mods


----------



## r31ya

KZ Balance Armature series, could you name them all?
_Theo W. Adam S image_


----------



## MacAttack7

r31ya said:


> KZ Balance Armature series, could you name them all?
> _Theo W. Adam S image_


I've seen them all, but don't know all the names.
Where is the ASX/ASF/AST? 
Every time I listen to the ASX, I think it sounds great.....my favorite IEM, even though most people hate it.


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> KZ Balance Armature series, could you name them all?
> _Theo W. Adam _


Front to back: AS06, AS10, AS12, AS16, AS16 pro.
Missing other KZ all-BAs are BA10, ASX, ASF and AST.


MacAttack7 said:


> I've seen them all, but don't know all the names.
> Where is the ASX/ASF/AST?
> Every time I listen to the ASX, I think it sounds great.....my favorite IEM, even though most people hate it.


ASX modded with wide nozzles are my absolute favourite of all IEMs - unmatched rich and full sound!


----------



## greymousetaxi

PhonoPhi said:


> Front to back: AS06, AS10, AS12, AS16, AS16 pro.
> Missing other KZ all-BAs are BA10, ASX, ASF and AST.
> 
> ASX modded with wide nozzles are my absolute favourite of all IEMs - unmatched rich and full sound!


i have also modded my lyra's nozzle. the difference is a wider soundstage and less midbass bloat. definitely a favorite. got the nozzles from a kbear ks1.


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Nov 29, 2022)

r31ya said:


> KZ Balance Armature series, could you name them all?
> _Theo W. Adam S image_


from top
AS16 PRO
AS16
AS12
ZS5
AS10
?
ZS5 was so dark

I still remember that fake crossover decorations


----------



## AmericanSpirit (Nov 29, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> Front to back: AS06, AS10, AS12, AS16, AS16 pro.
> Missing other KZ all-BAs are BA10, ASX, ASF and AST.
> 
> ASX modded with wide nozzles are my absolute favourite of all IEMs - unmatched rich and full sound!


Wow here comes prof.KZ!
i think i missed AS06, BA10 and ASF.
any AST mod suggestion?


----------



## PhonoPhi (Nov 30, 2022)

AmericanSpirit said:


> Wow here comes prof.KZ!
> i think i missed AS06, BA10 and ASF.
> any AST mod suggestion?


AST did not respond much to a wide-nozzle mod (in ASX, the treble guide was firing into a rim of KZ afterthought narrow nozzles).
In analogy with the impedance adapter story on AS16 pro, AST responded amazingly to 25-30 Ohm (15 to 45 Ohm in general) - much less overwhelming bass and more opened up pronounced treble, which I always felt quite missing from AST. (The theory/speculation is that KZ tuned AST dialing 18 Ohm of the source impedance, using the value of the IEM impedance, as they purportedly admitted for AS16 pro).
So AST are my second favourite, just non-availability of balanced impedance adapters largely limiting its placement.
I constructed my own variable balanced adapter, but it is a bit clumsy to use on the go:



Actually, using a simple volume control cable (typically 1-kOhm variable resistor) can give a very good preview, if one wants to try with different multi-driver IEMs - very interesting and revealing.




Finally, AS16 pro are a great recent creation of KZ as well, my third favourite. I removed the mesh for most unrestricted sound (minor difference though, mostly for the feeling being totally unrestricted )

P. S. Corrected 18 to 25-30 Ohm for AST (AST impedance is 30 not 18 Ohm).


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> Finally, AS16 pro are a great recent creation of KZ as well, my third favourite. I removed the mesh for most unrestricted sound (minor difference though, mostly for the feeling being totally unrestricted )


That's funny....I removed the mesh on one of mine because it was extremely muffled compared to the other one, and I thought it sounded good without it.....brighter I guess is what I'd say, but not overly so. I was going to remove the mesh on both, but KZ sent me a replacement, so for now I have mesh on both sides again.


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> AST did not respond much to a wide-nozzle mod (in ASX, the treble guide was firing into a rim of KZ afterthought narrow nozzles).
> In analogy with the impedance adapter story on AS16 pro, AST responded amazingly to 18 Ohm (10 to 40 Ohm in general) - much less overwhelming bass and more opened up pronounced treble, which I always felt quite missing from AST. (The theory/speculation is that KZ tuned AST dialing 18 Ohm of the source impedance, using the value of the IEM impedance, as they purportedly admitted for AS16 pro).
> So AST are my second favourite, just non-availability of balanced impedance adapters largely limiting its placement.


I don't know much about the Ohm issue, but if I were to buy something from Ali-Express for my ASTs, could you recommend what to get?


----------



## AmericanSpirit

PhonoPhi said:


> AST did not respond much to a wide-nozzle mod (in ASX, the treble guide was firing into a rim of KZ afterthought narrow nozzles).
> In analogy with the impedance adapter story on AS16 pro, AST responded amazingly to 18 Ohm (10 to 40 Ohm in general) - much less overwhelming bass and more opened up pronounced treble, which I always felt quite missing from AST. (The theory/speculation is that KZ tuned AST dialing 18 Ohm of the source impedance, using the value of the IEM impedance, as they purportedly admitted for AS16 pro).
> So AST are my second favourite, just non-availability of balanced impedance adapters largely limiting its placement.
> I constructed my own variable balanced adapter, but it is a bit clumsy to use on the go:
> ...


I see. Oh yea that restricted feeling I understand. Some mesh does terrible job taming the sound to certain fr curve


----------



## PhonoPhi

MacAttack7 said:


> I don't know much about the Ohm issue, but if I were to buy something from Ali-Express for my ASTs, could you recommend what to get?


A more universal way is to get a volume control cable: https://www.amazon.com/PChero-Exten...0&sprefix=audio+cable+volume+c,aps,110&sr=8-3
Alternatively, look for new JCAlly adapters: 18 and 36 Ohm. (Ali Express recently got me with multiple shipping horribly delayed ("NL post"), so I do not plan to use it and to mention in any form for quite some time).
TRI Clarion tips are great for AST, and in generally are very highly recommended for $3 per pair.


AmericanSpirit said:


> I see. Oh yea that restricted feeling I understand. Some mesh does terrible job taming the sound to certain fr curve


AS16 pro mesh is definitely more restrictive than old good one on AS16 and AS12 for instance (my favourite).
I have two pairs, so I could compare more directly - some difference for sure, I did not feel it to be substantial.

Again, my recent revelation were TRI Clarion tips - great for treble gentle IEMs, such as AST and TRI I3. A bit too much for modified ASX and AS16 pro - but I love being able to access this "too much" state and then to dial back a bit.


----------



## Mellowship

r31ya said:


> KZ Balance Armature series, could you name them all?
> _Theo W. Adam S image_


I only have the AS10. When I got it, I didn't care much about it. My first impressions were that the sound signature was unnatural. Back then I was using the FiiO X3II. Recently, I gave it another shot with the Shanling UP4 and the HiBy FC3, and they have so much more to give. They have been on my daily choices for the past 2 or 3 weeks along with the 7Hz Salnotes Zero and the Sony MH1c.


----------



## MacAttack7

I ordered the PR1 from the KZ official Ali store on 11/20, but they won't ship it for some reason.
Does anyone know why it wouldn't have shipped by now?

I've messaged them a few times, and they just keep saying they'll ship as soon as possible.
Never had this happen before.


----------



## BrunoC

Same here.

The current status of my order changed to "Awaiting delivery" just before it was automaticaly cancelled. 
In global.cainiao.com it has the status ""Awaiting seller dispatch"...

Smells fishy. This is not usual for sure.


----------



## MacAttack7

BrunoC said:


> Same here.
> 
> The current status of my order changed to "Awaiting delivery" just before it was automaticaly cancelled.
> In global.cainiao.com it has the status ""Awaiting seller dispatch"...
> ...


If it's delayed for a good reason, they should say so, but they just give generic responses.
I ordered the PR1 with the big discount. Did you order at full price, or a big discount also?


----------



## BrunoC

Big discount also.
They gave me the same answer as you.
The store is "KZ Franchised Store".


----------



## r31ya

KZ have several store, 
KZ official store and KZ earphone franchised store, CCA official store. 

If you buy PR1 pro with the early bird discount and free shipping, it will take sometime  before it start to ship. 

Its crappy thing but my PR1 took 5 days, and my old esx took 11 days. Tough the two is bought on early bird discount (first week of sales). It seems that discounts is the same with preorder price. tough if you take paid delivery apparently it will ship faster.


----------



## Carpet

I suspect that demand for KZ PR1 Pro has exceeded their stocks. So they will be trying to catch up production. As this is a new product using a different driver the supply chain could be hung up with components too. Try extending time, I'm sure they would rather have orders lapse and sell them to customers at full price.


----------



## r31ya

MacAttack7 said:


> I ordered the PR1 from the KZ official Ali store on 11/20, but they won't ship it for some reason.
> Does anyone know why it wouldn't have shipped by now?
> 
> I've messaged them a few times, and they just keep saying they'll ship as soon as possible.
> Never had this happen before.


which store you bought it from?
KZ official or KZ franchised store?


----------



## MacAttack7

r31ya said:


> which store you bought it from?
> KZ official or KZ franchised store?


Official store.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 1, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> Official store.


i ask around, kz rep said "all order have been ready to ship just waiting for tracking order"
hopefully you'll get status update within a day or two


----------



## MacAttack7

r31ya said:


> i ask around, kz rep said "all order have been ready to ship just waiting for tracking order"
> hopefully you'll get status update within a day or two


Thanks...fingers crossed, not that I need another IEM, but since I ordered it, now I want it.


----------



## Carpet

MacAttack7 said:


> Thanks...fingers crossed, not that I need another IEM, but since I ordered it, now I want it.


"Not that I need another IEM!"​
That could become a meme, but probably not here! Judging by the startled gazes and sudden indrawing of breath.


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> "Not that I need another IEM!"​
> That could become a meme, but probably not here! Judging by the startled gazes and sudden indrawing of breath.


i was staring at discounted Zetian Wu in my ali cart for quite some time for few days during 11.11.
successfully not to impulse buy it.

but then i saw PR1 Pro graph comparison with S12 and Timeless and 50% off...


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> i was staring at discounted Zetian Wu in my ali cart for quite some time for few days during 11.11.
> successfully not to impulse buy it.
> 
> but then i saw PR1 Pro graph comparison with S12 and Timeless and 50% off...


I had the new TRN Xuanwu, Audiosense DT200 and KZ ZS10Pro X lurking in my cart towards the end of the sale. But I resisted pushing the button. All it took was the pitiful whimpering from my wallet, grim determination and two rolls of duct tape! 

Then my attention got dragged back to 60% off AQ0  🤫

I'd still like to know how the Xuanwu stacks up against the Gumiho though...🙄


----------



## r31ya (Dec 2, 2022)

*KZ PR1 Pro review by Hi Fri*
https://www.facebook.com/Seventhdaysavior



> *KZ PR1PRO review.*
> _"KZ's next generation in budget HIFI audio."_
> 
> Price: $70.99 to $85.99 depending on where you buy.
> ...


---


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Carpet said:


> "Not that I need another IEM!"​
> That could become a meme, but probably not here! Judging by the startled gazes and sudden indrawing of breath.


Need and Greed are two different animals… we have greed.


----------



## seanwee

MacAttack7 said:


> I ordered the PR1 from the KZ official Ali store on 11/20, but they won't ship it for some reason.
> Does anyone know why it wouldn't have shipped by now?
> 
> I've messaged them a few times, and they just keep saying they'll ship as soon as possible.
> Never had this happen before.





MacAttack7 said:


> If it's delayed for a good reason, they should say so, but they just give generic responses.
> I ordered the PR1 with the big discount. Did you order at full price, or a big discount also?





r31ya said:


> KZ have several store,
> KZ official store and KZ earphone franchised store, CCA official store.
> 
> If you buy PR1 pro with the early bird discount and free shipping, it will take sometime  before it start to ship.
> ...


Just arrived


----------



## MacAttack7 (Dec 3, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Just arrived


Mine still hasn't shipped from the KZ official store and it was ordered on the 20th, and they won't give me any reason why.
Will save myself some money I guess.

Hurry up and review it and let me know if I should cancel my order.


----------



## seanwee

MacAttack7 said:


> Mine still hasn't shipped from the KZ official store and it was ordered on the 20th, and they won't give me any reason why.
> Will save myself some money I guess.
> 
> Hurry up and review it and let me know if I should cancel my order.


Definitely a keeper at $40 imo. Even if you end up not liking them you can always sell at cost. 

I ordered mine on the 17th and it only shipped on the 30th.


----------



## Aevum

Mine arrived this morning, 

All i can say is that im really impressed, at 80-90 bucks im not sure it can stand up to the TE Hexa, but at the 45 bucks i paid, they sound amazing. 
They can even render correctly the heartbeats at the start of renegade by styx. and doesn't get bugged down at the start of you know my name by Chris cornel,


----------



## RCracer777

Just got mine as well. Can't say much about it yet as they need some ear time first.


----------



## seanwee

Aevum said:


> Mine arrived this morning,
> 
> All i can say is that im really impressed, at 80-90 bucks im not sure it can stand up to the TE Hexa, but at the 45 bucks i paid, they sound amazing.
> They can even render correctly the heartbeats at the start of renegade by styx. and doesn't get bugged down at the start of you know my name by Chris cornel,


So far technicality wise I'm comparing it to the Oracle MK2.

Both have that dry ish vocal presentation that sounds hyper detailed.


----------



## whirlwind

Aevum said:


> Mine arrived this morning,
> 
> All i can say is that im really impressed, at 80-90 bucks im not sure it can stand up to the TE Hexa, but at the 45 bucks i paid, they sound amazing.
> They can even render correctly the heartbeats at the start of renegade by styx. and doesn't get bugged down at the start of you know my name by Chris cornel,



If I could get them in the USA for $45 I think I would take the plunge, they sound interesting


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> AST did not respond much to a wide-nozzle mod (in ASX, the treble guide was firing into a rim of KZ afterthought narrow nozzles).
> In analogy with the impedance adapter story on AS16 pro, AST responded amazingly to 25-30 Ohm (15 to 45 Ohm in general) - much less overwhelming bass and more opened up pronounced treble, which I always felt quite missing from AST. (The theory/speculation is that KZ tuned AST dialing 18 Ohm of the source impedance, using the value of the IEM impedance, as they purportedly admitted for AS16 pro).
> So AST are my second favourite, just non-availability of balanced impedance adapters largely limiting its placement.
> I constructed my own variable balanced adapter, but it is a bit clumsy to use on the go:


Can someone explain what exactly a 25-30 Ohm impedance adapter would do for the sound of the AST?
I googled impedance adapters, but I can't find anything the really explains how it would affect the sound.
The ASTs are plenty loud already coming from my iPod.


----------



## XerusKun (Dec 3, 2022)

Finally found the PR1 endgame without opening it (referencing to what Akros did with his PLA13).

*What I did..*
1. Removed the front vent filter (poking the small vent near the nozzle until I hit the the outer shell of the planar driver)
2. 1-ply Alcohol Wipe (2.5 mm x 0.5 mm) rolled and inserted into the nozzle.
3. 200 Mesh filter on the top.
4. Stonks.








*Final Form*





Spoiler



Think of PR1 Balanced but its now truly "balanced" and not giga V-shaped as KZ wants it to be, add the planar intagibles (soundstage, imaging, fast attack and decay) without the hot upper treble





Spoiler



Now waiting for my upcoming balanced cable to unleash the remaining performance that this driver had..


----------



## MacAttack7

My PR1-Pros finally shipped. Ordered on the 20th. My faith in KZ is restored!
Now I can go shop for something else I don't need.


----------



## MacAttack7

XerusKun said:


> Finally found the PR1 endgame without opening it (referencing to what Akros did with his PLA13).
> 
> *What I did..*
> 1. Removed the front vent filter (poking the small vent near the nozzle until I hit the the outer shell of the planar driver)
> ...


I wouldn't be able to modify my earphones.....seems so wrong for some reason. 
What is "Stonks"?
What did this mod do for the sound?


----------



## XerusKun (Dec 4, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> I wouldn't be able to modify my earphones.....seems so wrong for some reason.
> What is "Stonks"?
> What did this mod do for the sound?


Makes the PR1 Balanced midforward with enough bass and treble to boot, sounds very analog and natural with the mod. Cymbals aren't that splashy anymore, midrange nuances can be easily heard unlike stock, treble is softer and is now pleasant to listen to. Whenever I'm listening to it, it feels like I'm in a studio of some kind, imaging is on point, soundstage is ironically wide and deep..Sounds majestic for my Bossa Nova and Jazz playlist..

The sound is somehow remisniscent to my Hzsound Heart Mirror but with planar resolution and a more immersive soundstage.

I like it better than my RS1 and AS16 Pro.

Stonks = Profit. 😆

Compared to other planars



Yeap pretty balanced, that midbass boost that my mod has is basically nothing for KZs planar, there's literally no bloat and slams as hard as stock.


Update:
4 hrs in with this mod, this can be an end game material, like literally..haha..I can't just contain my grin everytime a track is played..the immersiveness, the details, the vocals, the separation its unreal how a simple mod can awaken this sleeping planar driver that KZ is using. Like man I'm cryin. 🥲 plain beautiful.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 4, 2022)

MacAttack7 said:


> Can someone explain what exactly a 25-30 Ohm impedance adapter would do for the sound of the AST?
> I googled impedance adapters, but I can't find anything the really explains how it would affect the sound.
> The ASTs are plenty loud already coming from my iPod.


A good question!
Actually, it took me some time to understand, so it definitely needs some explanation.

First, upon using an impedance adapter, the volume is expected/implied to be matched to the same levels for proper comparisons.

Second, the primary purpose of impedance adapters is to better match a source and a transducer. A most common case is for a too powerful source that can deliver only few % of its power before making a transducer sound too loud, often with some background noise. In this case, a proper impedance adapter can dissipate some energy, so the source will be used at its higher (more optimal) power levels, often with less noise. (Again, volume matching is assumed).
An important point from here is that using impedance adapters implies having strong sources that can provide more power. Weaker sources, like phones, may not have sufficient driving voltage when used with impedance adapters.

Now, the third and most relevant to your question point, which I actually missed before, is that using impedance adapters may strongly affect power distribution to different drivers for multi-driver IEMs. Taking AST as an example, the bass BA takes most of the power in the AST crossover design, leaving less power for multiple treble drivers. As a result, AST sound bass heavy (too much for many) and somewhat gentle/anemic in treble (definitely too gentle for me). Using an impedance adapter with AST makes power distribution more even (more story to it,  just not to be overly long). As a result, bass BA gets less power and treble BAs more with the great overall effect (to my ears, at least).

Now a bit of the background, the effect of the impedance adapters was brought to HIFiers' attention with KZ AS16 pro, where KZ admitted using wrong source setting of 18 Ohm for the source impedance, while tuning (they dialed the IEM impedance of 18 Ohm instead). So 18 Ohm impedance adapter should bring an original tuning (that is noticeably leaner (less bass, more treble again) and closer to original AS16; I like both versions). KZ actually promised to produce a properly tuned version of AS16 pro, but it did not materialize, likely because the "wrong tuning" actually worked out well, if not better, for most.

After learning from AS16 pro, I decided to test other all-BA KZs, and AST seem to be a similar case, as I described above. Given AST impedance of 30 Ohm, 25-40 Ohm adapters make the bass leaner, and treble more pronounced.
Also TRI Clarion tips are great for AST.

@cqtek and @paulwasabii may chime more on this, from them I learned most what I summarized above, my big thanks!

I miss Master Slater so much! Under his patience quidance, I started some simple moding to enjoy this hobby. He would be a really great person to contribute here with more insight and his great explanations.


XerusKun said:


> Finally found the PR1 endgame without opening it (referencing to what Akros did with his PLA13).
> 
> *What I did..*
> 1. Removed the front vent filter (poking the small vent near the nozzle until I hit the the outer shell of the planar driver)
> ...


Great and very timely mods now that KZ may feel to make KZ PR1 less relevant by the Pro version.

I will definitely try what I can do along your lines after I get my Pro (it is in a local post office since Friday, Canada Post do not do weekends...)


----------



## lushmelody

PhonoPhi said:


> A good question!
> Actually, it took me some time to understand, so it definitely needs some explanation.
> 
> First, upon using an impedance adapter, the volume is expected/implied to be matched to the same levels for proper comparisons.
> ...


Thanks for this great and clarifying post. I put AST bass down too much by PEQ. I think a mod would be better. I just dont know if I can go balanced. Impedance adapters are all single ended 😭


----------



## XerusKun

PhonoPhi said:


> KZ actually promised to produce a properly tuned version of AS16 pro, but it did not materialize, likely because the "wrong tuning" actually worked out well, if not better, for most.


Actually it did materialize. They are actually selling AS16 Pro High Impedance Version in alixpress.

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004748479754.html?gatewayAdapt=gloPc2jpnMsite


----------



## MacAttack7

PhonoPhi said:


> A good question!
> Actually, it took me some time to understand, so it definitely needs some explanation.
> 
> First, upon using an impedance adapter, the volume is expected/implied to be matched to the same levels for proper comparisons.
> ...


Thanks for the impedance class! I may order an adapter and see if I can hear the difference now that I'm curious.


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 4, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> Thanks for this great and clarifying post. I put AST bass down too much by PEQ. I think a mod would be better. I just dont know if I can go balanced. Impedance adapters are all single ended 😭


Vety much ttue for the lack of the balanced adapters. I made few of my owns, but it would have grean they were available. Thinking about it, it may be more profitable for ChiFi to sell different versions of IEMs than adaptors.

Most important, good equalizers should give the same effect (the adapters are passive elements, not affecting the drivers), so if you are happy with equalizers - you can retune the power distribution to different drivers yourself.


----------



## cqtek (Dec 4, 2022)

PhonoPhi said:


> A good question!
> Actually, it took me some time to understand, so it definitely needs some explanation.
> 
> First, upon using an impedance adapter, the volume is expected/implied to be matched to the same levels for proper comparisons.
> ...


I really don't have much more to add to this comment, which is very well explained, by the way.
Just a question regarding the output impedance of the sources. Ideally, sources should have an output impedance close to zero. The reason is very well explained in this link, which I have shared dozens of times:

https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

As discussed in this article, a source with a high output impedance can transform the FR of the connected headphones, especially the more sensitive headphones with BA drivers. By placing an impedance adapter, the rule that the connected load must have 8 times the output impedance can be minimised. This may be another suitable use for impedance adapters.

https://penonaudio.com/accessories/earphone-adapters/3.5mm-impedance-adapter.html
https://penonaudio.com/l-shaped-impedance-adapter.html
https://penonaudio.com/accessories/earphone-adapters/dunu-3.5mm-impedance-plug.html


----------



## G777

MacAttack7 said:


> Can someone explain what exactly a 25-30 Ohm impedance adapter would do for the sound of the AST?
> I googled impedance adapters, but I can't find anything the really explains how it would affect the sound.
> The ASTs are plenty loud already coming from my iPod.


Here's what it does to the FR:


----------



## MacAttack7

G777 said:


> Here's what it does to the FR:


Does it depend on your output source as to what exactly it does?
I have an iPod Touch. I think it's output impedance is 1.74 ohms....not 100% positive as it's hard to find, but that was what I wrote down a long time ago from somewhere on the internet.


----------



## G777

MacAttack7 said:


> Does it depend on your output source as to what exactly it does?
> I have an iPod Touch. I think it's output impedance is 1.74 ohms....not 100% positive as it's hard to find, but that was what I wrote down a long time ago from somewhere on the internet.


The difference between 25ohms and 27ohms isn't significant in this case, so your iPod's OI probably won't have much of an impact.


----------



## Aramaki




----------



## IEMbiker

Aramaki said:


>


KZ EDX is in the mix. one of the best values.


----------



## Aparker2005

My AS16 Pros came in today. Absolutely love them! Only thing is when I was swapping tips, the silver mesh on the earpiece got pushed in some and unattached. Is this a big deal?


----------



## MacAttack7

Aparker2005 said:


> My AS16 Pros came in today. Absolutely love them! Only thing is when I was swapping tips, the silver mesh on the earpiece got pushed in some and unattached. Is this a big deal?


My left one wasn't working properly, extremely muffled due to something being wrong with mesh as far as I could tell.
After I removed it, the sound was back to normal volume. It was slightly different from my other earpiece that still had the mesh, but not in a negative way, at least to me.
Just sounded like the mesh dulled the sound a bit, and after removal it was opened up. It wasn't that big of a difference.
If you remove one though, I'd remove the other also.


----------



## Carpet

Aparker2005 said:


> My AS16 Pros came in today. Absolutely love them! Only thing is when I was swapping tips, the silver mesh on the earpiece got pushed in some and unattached. Is this a big deal?


Is that the new one with the altered impedance?


----------



## lushmelody

MacAttack7 said:


> My left one wasn't working properly, extremely muffled due to something being wrong with mesh as far as I could tell.
> After I removed it, the sound was back to normal volume. It was slightly different from my other earpiece that still had the mesh, but not in a negative way, at least to me.
> Just sounded like the mesh dulled the sound a bit, and after removal it was opened up. It wasn't that big of a difference.
> If you remove one though, I'd remove the other also.


Is it ok to keep listening to it filterless? No risk for the BAs?


----------



## Aparker2005

Carpet said:


> Is that the new one with the altered impedance?


Not sure, I got it during the 11.11 sale. And yeah I was wondering mostly on it being safe to listen to with the filter broken lol


----------



## Carpet

lushmelody said:


> Is it ok to keep listening to it filterless? No risk for the BAs?


Some of the resin 3D-printed IEMs have multiple sound-tubes and no filter. None of mine have shown any problems with spontaneous BA failure (yet).


----------



## lushmelody

Carpet said:


> Some of the resin 3D-printed IEMs have multiple sound-tubes and no filter. None of mine have shown any problems with spontaneous BA failure (yet).


I think i'll try. My AST is temporarily shelved because the left cloth filter collapsed and lost shape last time I cleaned it. I was thinking of a low density non affecting tuning foam to substitute the terribly thin stock cloth


----------



## MacAttack7

lushmelody said:


> I think i'll try. My AST is temporarily shelved because the left cloth filter collapsed and lost shape last time I cleaned it. I was thinking of a low density non affecting tuning foam to substitute the terribly thin stock cloth


AST has a cloth filter? Are you talking about the mesh screen you see after you remove the eartip, or is there a cloth underneath that?


----------



## Carpet

lushmelody said:


> I think i'll try. My AST is temporarily shelved because the left cloth filter collapsed and lost shape last time I cleaned it. I was thinking of a low density non affecting tuning foam to substitute the terribly thin stock cloth


Leukopore tape works okay. I just use a sharp scalpel to cut one or two small V's around the edge to let it breath. I should probably buy some filters at some stage. First need some calipers to measure what size I need.

Nah, too hard...
I already have tape!


----------



## lushmelody

MacAttack7 said:


> AST has a cloth filter? Are you talking about the mesh screen you see after you remove the eartip, or is there a cloth underneath that?


It is the mesh. I think its made of some fabric, cotton like. Its too fragile, I'm always gentle with q tips and never faced that issue before


----------



## lushmelody

Carpet said:


> Leukopore tape works okay. I just use a sharp scalpel to cut one or two small V's around the edge to let it breath. I should probably buy some filters at some stage. First need some calipers to measure what size I need.
> 
> Nah, too hard...
> I already have tape!


This is a good solution that I can do immediately. While waiting the filters arrival....


----------



## MacAttack7

lushmelody said:


> It is the mesh. I think its made of some fabric, cotton like. Its too fragile, I'm always gentle with q tips and never faced that issue before


I've never cleaned the screen of an IEM. I guess some people have dry ear wax that may flake into that mesh screen, but others like me have stickier ear wax that stays put in my ear.


----------



## Aparker2005

So is the screen for protecting your ears or more the earpiece? Or both? Forgive me I've never had one fall out lol


----------



## MacAttack7

Aparker2005 said:


> So is the screen for protecting your ears or more the earpiece? Or both? Forgive me I've never had one fall out lol


I'm not too knowledgeable on earphone construction, but I think the screen is to keep debris from falling into the earphone, but it can also affect the sound as there are different materials and different pore sizes on the screens.


----------



## PhonoPhi

Got my KZ-PR1 Pro yesterday night  (Canada Post works day and night, I am happy to admit that I was wrong about them).

PR1 Pro is great, and for $42 - just amazing/fantastic (finally, it pays off a bit to be a KZ beta/gamma tester )

I liked PR1 HiFi, but the drone bass made them a bit of a special flavour IEM for me.

PR1 Pro perfectly fixed the bass, near ideal to my preferences - it is mightily there when needed, perfect!

Mids feel a bit more defined in the refined, more mature tuning, super great for KZ!

The treble is still there mightily. Many/most may opt to use good-quality foams provided. Me, happy with this treble, true, a bit hot, but for most of classical music recordings it works very well to my ears, and it is always easy to trim than to add.

Finally, I love the build quality, how quite large planar driver made to fit snugly to fairly compact shell. The transparent plastic is more aesthetically pleasing and more practical in cold Canadian winters than metal-plated plastic. All 7 magnet strips can be nicely seen.





Great job, KZ in redefining ChiFi standards, yet another time!


----------



## lushmelody

MacAttack7 said:


> I've never cleaned the screen of an IEM. I guess some people have dry ear wax that may flake into that mesh screen, but others like me have stickier ear wax that stays put in my ear.


I am gifted with the flaking ones 😔


----------



## Carpet

lushmelody said:


> I am gifted with the flaking ones 😔


Little flakes of earwax as gifts, you have just solved my "What will I buy my relatives for Xmas?" problem. The popularity problem still needs some work!


----------



## lushmelody

Carpet said:


> Little flakes of earwax as gifts, you have just solved my "What will I buy my relatives for Xmas?" problem. The popularity problem still needs some work!


Lol! Just keep it as a treat to yourself thing 🤭


----------



## Aparker2005

As16 pro and CCA ca16s are the best 2 iems I've had thus far. As16 pro is near perfect. CCA ca16 is perfect for my drumming on stage. Can't wait to try the As16 pros on stage!


----------



## r31ya (Dec 6, 2022)

Someone complain on their KZ PR1 Pro wasn't started shipped after few days.
I relay it to KZ rep in KZ Discord (and noted that my own KZ PR1 Pro took 5 days and my ESX took 11 days before it start to ship)
Now KZ have this disclaimer on CCA FLA Launch
---
https://www.kztws.com/products/cca-fla




---
This disclaimer apparently only for KZ official store bought only which apparently KZTWS.com and KZ official store on ali.


----------



## MacAttack7

r31ya said:


> Someone complain on their KZ PR1 Pro wasn't started shipped after few days.
> I relay it to KZ rep in KZ Discord (and noted that my own KZ PR1 Pro took 5 days and my ESX took 11 days before it start to ship)
> Now KZ have this disclaimer on CCA FLA Launch


Mine took 14 days from order date until the status finally changed to shipped. 
It's still in China for now. I don't really care too much if it ships late if somone would just provide a reason. Sh#$# happens sometimes and things get delayed.


----------



## bhazard (Dec 6, 2022)

Just got around to the PR1 Pro today.
It's a clear improvement over the PLA13 and PR1 Hifi, but I feel like if you have those previous sets look into some mods to mimic the Pro's tuning.
The treble and mids are refined a bit, but the treble is still a bit too hot. This is easily fixable and I'm enjoying these stock.
Foam tips came with the Pro? That was a nice surprise.
I bumped up subbass slightly and I'm getting a real nice clean slam from this which I think the foams are enhancing. Hard to believe it's a Planar and not a dynamic. I'm really liking these right out of the box.

I had the Euclid for about a day and I wasn't truly impressed, not for $399. This was $45 and I don't need a ton of EQ to enjoy it. That is impressive.

It's a harder sell around ~$80 with so much competition, but I think it would be worth that too. Thumbs up on these as long as a Pro Ultra version doesn't come out next month.


----------



## bhazard

Anyone else with the PR1 Pro noticing a better soundstage and imaging over the PLA13/PR1 Hifi? It doesn't make sense and shouldn't really be possible if it's the same driver, but that's what im perceiving (no A/B test though).


----------



## MacAttack7

bhazard said:


> Just got around to the PR1 Pro today.
> It's a clear improvement over the PLA13 and PR1 Hifi, but I feel like if you have those previous sets look into some mods to mimic the Pro's tuning.
> The treble and mids are refined a bit, but the treble is still a bit too hot. This is easily fixable and I'm enjoying these stock.
> Foam tips came with the Pro? That was a nice surprise.
> ...


Of course a pro ultra version will come out next month. I have no doubt. 
How are they with capturing the details and instrument separation?


----------



## r31ya

bhazard said:


> Anyone else with the PR1 Pro noticing a better soundstage and imaging over the PLA13/PR1 Hifi? It doesn't make sense and shouldn't really be possible if it's the same driver, but that's what im perceiving (no A/B test though).


According to KZ, PR1 pro have updated driver with altered shell, apparently taller shell which gonna affect the sound
and lowering bass amount also help the driver to sing better without muddied by extra bass response


----------



## chinmie (Dec 6, 2022)

bhazard said:


> Anyone else with the PR1 Pro noticing a better soundstage and imaging over the PLA13/PR1 Hifi? It doesn't make sense and shouldn't really be possible if it's the same driver, but that's what im perceiving (no A/B test though).



Haven't heard the PR1/pro yet, but EQing can increase/decrease background information like reverbs and delays too, so we would hear the "room simulation" and hearing slightly different perceived soundstage.



r31ya said:


> According to KZ, PR1 pro have updated driver with altered shell, apparently taller shell which gonna affect the sound
> and lowering bass amount also help the driver to sing better without muddied by extra bass response



But this is more likely the better explanation 😁


----------



## PhonoPhi

bhazard said:


> Anyone else with the PR1 Pro noticing a better soundstage and imaging over the PLA13/PR1 Hifi? It doesn't make sense and shouldn't really be possible if it's the same driver, but that's what im perceiving (no A/B test though).


Definitely, the Pro sound stage and imaging are better than those of HiFi.
Hifi are noticeably less sensitive and correspondingly feel more dampened with the direct hit to the stage, transparency and layering.

At the same time, the stage on few other larger-driver planars is more spacious in comparison, e.g Dioko by perhaps a little bit, and Muse Power significantly - one of the most spacious IEM that I have (treble is rich and does require some attention).

Overall, relative to other planars that I have and quite a few of other IEMs in the $50-100 range, PR1 pro feel solidly competitive at $70-80.


----------



## seanwee (Dec 6, 2022)

bhazard said:


> Anyone else with the PR1 Pro noticing a better soundstage and imaging over the PLA13/PR1 Hifi? It doesn't make sense and shouldn't really be possible if it's the same driver, but that's what im perceiving (no A/B test though).


From the PLA13 to the PR1 Pro I associate the better soundstage and imaging with the more controlled bass so there's less bleed as well as less sizzle obscuring the air. Less bass bleed means more details heard as well so softer sounds (that we perceive as further) come through better.

Anyone know the mesh sizes of these two?


----------



## bhazard

MacAttack7 said:


> Of course a pro ultra version will come out next month. I have no doubt.
> How are they with capturing the details and instrument separation?


Above average. Instruments are easily pinpointed in complicated Metal passages. One of the best KZ's I've heard to date, and it had me engaged the whole time while listening last night.


----------



## mafyou12

I am pretty knocked out with the HiFi's. My first time trying planar. Ordered on 11.11 right before the Pro came out. 

They seem to be more amp dependent than any IEM I've heard. The best thing I have is a Liquid Spark, and the slam and clarity with that is just beautiful. I don't mind the treble as much as I thought I might, with most music. EQ experimenting is fun but I tend to go back to the stock tuning, with foam tips.

I saw positive reviews on these saying, yknow, very good for the price but not really at the level of the $200 sets. Well I'm convinced to invest a little more later on. I'll let the "planar war" go on for another while and check back. 

Wonder how people like the Pro compared to the pricier ones.


----------



## seanwee

mafyou12 said:


> I am pretty knocked out with the HiFi's. My first time trying planar. Ordered on 11.11 right before the Pro came out.
> 
> They seem to be more amp dependent than any IEM I've heard. The best thing I have is a Liquid Spark, and the slam and clarity with that is just beautiful. I don't mind the treble as much as I thought I might, with most music. EQ experimenting is fun but I tend to go back to the stock tuning, with foam tips.
> 
> ...


I'd put them at $150, they are definitely an upgrade over the dioko and for me at least, the better extension makes it preferable to the OG timeless. 

It can be considered as a zetian wu alternative if you like a more aggresive presentation. 

Its not perfect though, if drier sounding vocals, intense (yet not quite harsh) treble, and what seems like an overly snappy presentation aren't your cup of tea, you may want to look elsewhere. 

While I do really enjoy the set due to its snap and treble sparkle, those same qualities make it an intense and fatiguing listen. I will definitely be looking into toning down the treble.


----------



## r31ya

mafyou12 said:


> I am pretty knocked out with the HiFi's. My first time trying planar. Ordered on 11.11 right before the Pro came out.
> 
> They seem to be more amp dependent than any IEM I've heard. The best thing I have is a Liquid Spark, and the slam and clarity with that is just beautiful. I don't mind the treble as much as I thought I might, with most music. EQ experimenting is fun but I tend to go back to the stock tuning, with foam tips.
> 
> ...


Some points out that PR1 Pro is a step or slightly behind Wu and S12 in terms of mid and treble clarity and smoothness.
Paul goes as far as its 5% behind. Considering the price that i bought it in $42 ($80 retail), if its 5% less than a $120~$150 iem, its a steal.
---

CCA FLA official graph translated by Evasb from KZ discord.
The tuning KZ/CCA bet big on to fight their new neighbour


----------



## seanwee (Dec 7, 2022)

r31ya said:


> Some points out that PR1 Pro is a step or slightly behind Wu and S12 in terms of mid and treble clarity and smoothness.


I'd say it's more of: has extension  but is unrefined (PR1 Pro) vs poor extension (Wu)

Granted not having any extension will be better than super peaky extension but it's not like the PR1 Pro is unlistenable like the Moondrop Stellaris. And even that has its own following.


----------



## r31ya

seanwee said:


> I'd say it's more of: has extension  but is unrefined (PR1 Pro) vs poor extension (Wu)
> 
> Granted not having any extension will be better than super peaky extension but it's not like the PR1 Pro is unlistenable like the Moondrop Stellaris. And even that has its own following.


That poor poor moondrop keyboard dac/amp reviewer who trying to be as polite as possible as he ended pairing the relatively bright dac/amp with stelarris.


----------



## Cheesebuggah

r31ya said:


> That poor poor moondrop keyboard dac/amp reviewer who trying to be as polite as possible as he ended pairing the relatively bright dac/amp with stelarris.


Lol, are you talking about Keybored? I used to be into mechanical keyboards a couple months ago and he was probably my favorite keyboard YouTuber. I haven't seen that video yet


----------



## bhazard

Found some graphs for the PR1 Pro and started playing around with AutoEQ.
Measurement is from ianfann, target is HBB.
Check out that FR all the way up to 5kHz. No wonder why I like it so much.
The AutoEQ takes the spice out of the treble and gives a very balanced response across the entire graph


----------



## r31ya

Cheesebuggah said:


> Lol, are you talking about Keybored? I used to be into mechanical keyboards a couple months ago and he was probably my favorite keyboard YouTuber. I haven't seen that video yet


yes, keybored.
he basically said, "its very bright"


----------



## seanwee

r31ya said:


> yes, keybored.
> he basically said, "its very bright"


more like looking directly at the sun imo




Painful


----------



## AmericanSpirit

seanwee said:


> more like looking directly at the sun imo
> 
> 
> 
> Painful


Stellaris is upper-mid hot with treble peaks, and weirdly dark at same time….
 I wouldn’t expect this kind of tuning from Moondrop brand. A planar spec is there, simply wasted.


----------



## baskingshark

AmericanSpirit said:


> Stellaris is upper-mid hot with treble peaks, and weirdly dark at same time….
> I wouldn’t expect this kind of tuning from Moondrop brand. A planar spec is there, simply wasted.



Not only is the Stellaris overly bright, but the timbre is quite off. And the fit is a mega issue, due to the too long nozzles and heavy shells.

But otherwise, if fitted well, the Stellaris is actually one of the most technical of the current planar crop, just that the tuning and fit are double whammies.


----------



## AmericanSpirit

Listening to AS10. Not particularly bad except a little rough bass. As a modern IEM, it’s probably not gonna be counted as “good”, but back in 2018 when this came out, I still remember I was fairly surprised!


----------



## AmericanSpirit

baskingshark said:


> Not only is the Stellaris overly bright, but the timbre is quite off. And the fit is a mega issue, due to the too long nozzles and heavy shells.
> 
> But otherwise, if fitted well, the Stellaris is actually one of the most technical of the current planar crop, just that the tuning and fit are double whammies.


First let off from MD, sigh..yea technical it is. So I still rated 4/5 on review. Maybe the tuning would fit to someone.


----------



## bhazard

I tried the Pr1 Pro with Azla Sednafit tips... bad combo unless you take the treble down even further.
I see why KZ included foams with these. Even EQ'ed, the foams help bring things down to a more tolerable level.


----------



## fastleo63 (Dec 9, 2022)

bhazard said:


> Anyone else with the PR1 Pro noticing a better soundstage and imaging over the PLA13/PR1 Hifi? It doesn't make sense and shouldn't really be possible if it's the same driver, but that's what im perceiving (no A/B test though).


I have both of them (HiFi and Pro) and I can confirm that there's a subtle difference in soundstage.
The driver is not exactly the same (KZ claims that in the Pro version it's slightly taller), but IMHO the main culprit is the change in nozzle angle between the two models.
I can notice the difference even when I wear them.
The HiFi with the supplied eartip falls out of my ear in not more than a couple of seconds.
The Pro (same tip as above) stays more firmly in my canals (but still cannot seal them, so I'm currently using foam tips and/or the AZLA SednaEarfit XELASTEC).


----------



## lushmelody

Idk why. KZ loves butter full BAs but still does V planar. Why are they not trying to mimic Tangzu success


----------



## AmericanSpirit

lushmelody said:


> Idk why. KZ loves butter full BAs but still does V planar. Why are they not trying to mimic Tangzu success


KZ tend to be micro-detailed (analytical V-shape) IEM maker, they’ve tried to cast a macro-dynamic orientated (musical) but only had a lukewarm appreciation to my impression. The sales volume. That’s KZ’s trauma I guess. KZ musicality is shown in AST, a basshead tuning, of which it couldn’t obtain a mainstream’s support. KZ’s mainstream tuning is what ZAS has to offer at the current product model, the advanced KZ V —KZ W — which will work great with mainstream genres.  CRA/CRA+ also follow that W tuning with more elevations. 

Maybe it’s hard to shift to fully musical direction.

It’s my personal speculation that KZ’s strategic strengths (it’s fading though) is multi-BA, equipped with their solid partnership with Bellsing, and for that KZ has pricing and cost initiatives to compete with others.  That doesn’t mean they could sit there forever, so KZ still need to seed their new segment on the new planar wave (primarily from one ODM’s various planar drivers), of which with reasons mentioned above, they couldn’t swing it to the musical one but to shift to “detail” oriented colorations.


----------



## saldsald

Why isn't anyone getting the CXS? It's not KZ / CCA V anymore. It on the same level as the NFAudio NM2+/NA2+ at 1/10 the cost IMHO just tuned differently. I bet the FLA is tuned similarly.


----------



## bhazard

saldsald said:


> Why isn't anyone getting the CXS? It's not KZ / CCA V anymore. It on the same level as the NFAudio NM2+/NA2+ at 1/10 the cost IMHO just tuned differently. I bet the FLA is tuned similarly.


I think I'm burned out on releases. I love the PR1 Pro, but with the Aful, Cadenza, and Hexa also coming, it's hard to justify yet another set.

As soon as I finished writing that I ordered the FLA and CXS. lol
I tried to convince myself I didn't need them, but the price and tuning is hard to pass up.


----------



## r31ya

bhazard said:


> I think I'm burned out on releases. I love the PR1 Pro, but with the Aful, Cadenza, and Hexa also coming, it's hard to justify yet another set.
> 
> As soon as I finished writing that I ordered the FLA and CXS. lol
> I tried to convince myself I didn't need them, but the price and tuning is hard to pass up.


a modded cxs graph, akros and tony tex mod


> You change the filter on back of DD , 400 grade and noozle filter is Moondrop ARIA filter, _Tony Tex_


----------



## r31ya

bhazard said:


> I think I'm burned out on releases. I love the PR1 Pro, but with the Aful, Cadenza, and Hexa also coming, it's hard to justify yet another set.
> 
> As soon as I finished writing that I ordered the FLA and CXS. lol
> I tried to convince myself I didn't need them, but the price and tuning is hard to pass up.


do you have eartips recomendation for PR1Pro?


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> do you have eartips recomendation for PR1Pro?


Definitely put some on, IEMs are uncomfortable and sound awful without them!


----------



## r31ya

Carpet said:


> Definitely put some on, IEMs are uncomfortable and sound awful without them!


it came with memory foam and i'm not used to it.
also, the audacity to sell iem that only comes with lint-magnet memory foam tips and didn't even include pouch or case with the iem.


----------



## Carpet

r31ya said:


> it came with memory foam and i'm not used to it.
> also, the audacity to sell iem that only comes with lint-magnet memory foam tips and didn't even include pouch or case with the iem.


These guys do really cheap cases if you need a few spare ZY Pop Electral Fun Store. Otherwise just hunt around for stores that offer free shipping (that's often more than the cases).

The trick with foams is to roll the tip between finger and thumb to compress it before putting it in your ear. Then they expand out for a good seal. Good memory foam tips remain compressed for longer which makes them easier to insert. TENNMAK do great foam tips, I have no idea how good the new KZ ones are in comparison.


----------



## mafyou12

bhazard said:


> I tried the Pr1 Pro with Azla Sednafit tips... bad combo unless you take the treble down even further.
> I see why KZ included foams with these. Even EQ'ed, the foams help bring things down to a more tolerable level.


Yes. On my Hifi's I'm using Comply foams with "waxguard" mesh to cut the treble down a little further still. Generally happy not to EQ them with these.

Good to have a use for these after picking them up for PSB M4U4's (those come with 1 pair) but not finding them such a good match on that set.


----------



## r31ya

mafyou12 said:


> Yes. On my Hifi's I'm using Comply foams with "waxguard" mesh to cut the treble down a little further still. Generally happy not to EQ them with these.
> 
> Good to have a use for these after picking them up for PSB M4U4's (those come with 1 pair) but not finding them such a good match on that set.


still tip rolling my PR1 Pro
trying to find a tip that tame the treble a bit but didn't mess with the soundstage or boosting the bass.


----------



## XerusKun

r31ya said:


> still tip rolling my PR1 Pro
> trying to find a tip that tame the treble a bit but didn't mess with the soundstage or boosting the bass.


Foam tips, the closest I find with silicone tips is JVC Spiraldots or Spinfits CP145 (but CP145 tends to narrow the headstage a bit.)


----------



## 4ceratops

XerusKun said:


> Foam tips, the closest I find with silicone tips is JVC Spiraldots or Spinfits CP145 (but CP145 tends to narrow the headstage a bit.)


Also in my experience Spiraldots help to curtail sharp highs, but they don't do it in as drastic a way as foams.


----------



## mafyou12 (Dec 10, 2022)

After a while I'll check back with silicone to make sure I'm not overdoing it with the comply waxguards. I just gave Lana Del Rey's "White Dress" a listen and... actually made it all the way through, lol.


----------



## lushmelody

Starlines are budget Final Es I think. All Acoustune 07 clones also attenuate treble harshness


----------



## lushmelody

mafyou12 said:


> After a while I'll check back with silicone to make sure I'm not overdoing it with the comply waxguards. I just gave Lana Del Rey's "White Dress" a listen and... actually made it all the way through, lol.


You can try foams inside the nozzle. Its Sony's recipe to tame peaks


----------



## Carpet

lushmelody said:


> Starlines are budget Final Es I think. All Acoustune 07 clones also attenuate treble harshness


I can confirm that! KBEAR 07 tips smooth out treble, but in not such a heavy handed way as foam tips.


----------



## seanwee (Dec 11, 2022)

seanwee said:


> Question for you guys who have the PR1b/PR1h/PLA13
> 
> Do you find the bass kinda weak relative to the quantity?
> 
> ...





DynamicEars said:


> I don't have those But I have timeless, i mod them so bass really open (default is too overdampened) but yes i concur that planar bass is more like BA bass, there is sub and mid bass presence but little air moving feeling that responsible for the impact. Still better than most BA though
> 
> On positive side, planar bass is so precise that on mid upper bass, they wont smear as much as DD, so planar bass usually tighter and precise. While all details and texture is an added bonuses





Carpet said:


> I have the PLA13 but it's out on loan, so this is from memory. Planar bass does seem intermediate between BA and DD bass. PLA has most bass by far of my planars, but if a DD set was tuned like that I'd expect them to pop out of my ears!


Returning to my previous statement regarding planar bass (specifically referring to the pla13)

After listening to the PR1 Pro extensively, I have to say it has a very weighty bass rumble and punch with incredible control. Its not like the pla 13 which was basically throwing blind punches everywhere, the PR1 Pro throws them with focus and precision. Its also a lot weightier than most dynamic iems i have tried, only exception being the Elysian Gaea and Annihilator but those are way out this league.

Still nitpicking on the treble a bit though, perhaps its a driver thing. The electrostats in the Annihilator seem to provide all the extension of the planar driver but without the sheen, like an ethereal image rather than an oversaturated one. (again, could be tuning refinement)

(the PR1 Pro has effectively rendered the PLA13 obsolete imo)


----------



## r31ya

KZ PR1 Pro is the first time to tip roll this hard to get "proper" sound out from an IEM.
it sounds good with foam, but i want foam replacement and so far every thing that i tried have its mixed result.
maybe i should caved in and bought that expensive spiraldots...


----------



## bhazard

r31ya said:


> KZ PR1 Pro is the first time to tip roll this hard to get "proper" sound out from an IEM.
> it sounds good with foam, but i want foam replacement and so far every thing that i tried have its mixed result.
> maybe i should caved in and bought that expensive spiraldots...


No need. Spiral Dots didn't help for me.
You'd have to physically filter the excess peaky treble or EQ it. It sounds great after you do though.


----------



## r31ya

bhazard said:


> No need. Spiral Dots didn't help for me.
> You'd have to physically filter the excess peaky treble or EQ it. It sounds great after you do though.


what did you filter it with?


----------



## r31ya

KZ new pokemon, KZ ZNA ($22, 1 unit 12mm DD, 1 unit custom 30095 BA)
New DD and new Eartips, a updated KZ Whirlwind apparently



----
Also early impression, didn't know who these people are, so salt and all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjwYQ9faANc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdPBRFLuUWM


----------



## Atek2019

KZ PR1 Pro, The best of KZ... it's real... need to plug with good source to make this iem really shine...
But plug with usb DAC dongle still ok !


----------



## r31ya

Atek2019 said:


> KZ PR1 Pro, The best of KZ... it's real... need to plug with good source to make this iem really shine...
> But plug with usb DAC dongle still ok !


its fairly thirsty, so if you have source with high current, it'll sing better


----------



## zachmal

bhazard said:


> Found some graphs for the PR1 Pro and started playing around with AutoEQ.
> Measurement is from ianfann, target is HBB.
> Check out that FR all the way up to 5kHz. No wonder why I like it so much.
> The AutoEQ takes the spice out of the treble and gives a very balanced response across the entire graph


it takes off the coldness from the PR1 Pro, a bit off the treble and adds some warmth

in lots of tracks it's just subtle but the most common change is that the highs are tamed a bit and the feeling of coldness is gone

thanks a lot for the EQ !


----------



## Atek2019 (Dec 14, 2022)

How to complaint to KZ? my left KZ PR1 Pro  has problem, it has defect.
I already contacted KZ official store in aliexpress ( i bought at that store), but no response


----------



## r31ya

Atek2019 said:


> How to complaint to KZ? my left KZ PR1 Pro  has problem, it has defect.
> I already contacted KZ official store in aliexpress ( i bought at that store), but no response


what happen?


----------



## Atek2019

r31ya said:


> what happen?


when i touch the left iem, it distorted the sound while playing music. and sometimes the volume is very low (left iem)


----------



## Alpha Whale (Dec 15, 2022)

bhazard said:


> Anyone else with the PR1 Pro noticing a better soundstage and imaging over the PLA13/PR1 Hifi? It doesn't make sense and shouldn't really be possible if it's the same driver, but that's what im perceiving (no A/B test though).





PhonoPhi said:


> Definitely, the Pro sound stage and imaging are better than those of HiFi.
> Hifi are noticeably less sensitive and correspondingly feel more dampened with the direct hit to the stage, transparency and layering.
> 
> At the same time, the stage on few other larger-driver planars is more spacious in comparison, e.g Dioko by perhaps a little bit, and Muse Power significantly - one of the most spacious IEM that I have (treble is rich and does require some attention).
> ...





bhazard said:


> Above average. Instruments are easily pinpointed in complicated Metal passages. One of the best KZ's I've heard to date, and it had me engaged the whole time while listening last night.



The PR1 HiFi is the cleanest and best KZ I've heard to date. I put it up against my AS12 and, while the AS12 is an 8.5 out of 10 in my book, the PR1 is definitely next level and an easy 9.5 on said level.

PR1 HiFi's separation, imaging and soundstage are surreal.


I purchased the PR1 HiFi because I wanted the all metal shells as opposed to the PR1 Pro shells but the way you guys are talking I will definitely have to order the PR1 Pro because I can't imagine it sounding better than the PR1 HiFi. 

FYI, I'm the guy that won't typically spend in excess of $70 or $80.






A few questions, though.

I was originally going to order the AS16 Pro because I'm a huge fan of the sub-$20 CCA Lyra and the AS16 Pro is reportedly a more dynamic and more refined Lyra. I can order both the AS16 Pro and the PR1 Pro but any feedback from someone who has both would be appreciated. Would the AS16 Pro be a worthy addition to my collection (I've been collecting since the ED9 was released) or is the PR1 Pro a tier up and in a class of its own at its price?

In addition, I found that the CCA HM20 sounds a great deal like two of my KZ favorites from yesteryear. The HM20 sits right between the ED8 (which has more extension in the sub bass) and HDS3 (which has less sub bass extension but great punchy mid bass). Of course the HM20 is several tiers up but it's as smooth and engaging as both the ED8 and the HDS3.








My question for the KZ veterans is what about the CCA CA16. Is the sound signature similar to the ED8, HDS3 and HM20 warm and smooth presentation. The HDS3 and ED8 were long time favorites back in the day but the HM20 is top dog for that kind of presentation. Would the CCA CA16 be a worthy addition to my collection or is the HM20 a step up from the CCA CA16? If it's different enough I'll pick one up but only if it's not severely outclassed by the very good HM20.





Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Carpet

Alpha Whale said:


> The PR1 HiFi is the cleanest and best KZ I've heard to date. I put it up against my AS12 and, while the AS12 is an 8.5 out of 10 in my book, the PR1 is definitely next level and an easy 9.5 on said level.
> 
> PR1 HiFi's separation, imaging and soundstage are surreal.
> 
> ...



KZ AS16Pro is very good release It falls short of Audiosense DT600, but not by as much as you would think, given the price difference! It has very good bass for an all BA set with a slightly warm tuning that is pleasant to listen to for extended periods. Still clean with none of the bleed associated with warmer DDs. 

CCA CA16 was another good IEM, unapologetically warm. Smoother and less fatiguing than CCA C10. Not the prettiest shell, but very comfortable. I haven't heard the HM20 to compare, it has pretty similar configuration but with separate sound tubes and updated drivers. 

I have both and they get used in regular rotation (although not as much as some other sets).


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 15, 2022)

Alpha Whale said:


> The PR1 HiFi is the cleanest and best KZ I've heard to date. I put it up against my AS12 and, while the AS12 is an 8.5 out of 10 in my book, the PR1 is definitely next level and an easy 9.5 on said level.
> 
> PR1 HiFi's separation, imaging and soundstage are surreal.
> 
> ...



Nice to hear that you enjoy PR1 HiFi. They are great.
Pro are definitely more clear to my ears. KZ removed some extra bass and largely left the treble intact (while provided the foams for the treble averse )

Now, AS16 pro are quite complimentary to planars.
If one values coherence and timbre -  PR1 pro can be considered a good step above AS16 pro. Then there are BA resolution and separation in AS16 pro that planars are yet to match.

I love AS16 pro - for me, they can be best described as a great hybrid of good old AS10 and AS16 - nice bass, great resolution, while with BA timbre and some granularity (that I realized I like to hear in many genres, e.g. violin solo).



AS12 are harder to compare, since I am of the impression that earlier and later versions were significantly different (I have two of most of them, KZ all-BA pokemons )

AS12 BA bass stands unmatched to me. AS16 pro are not far in bass and definitely more refined in mids and treble IMO.

Also with AS16 pro one can have all the fun with impedance adapters.
18 Ohm is supposed to deliver the tuning originally meant by KZ.
36 Ohm brings the sound signature closer to original AS16 to my ears (progressively drier more contained bass and more emphasized treble).
I read recently that someone enjoyed AS16 pro with 75 Ohm impedance adapter - should be some warm DAP.

Little to add about CA16, since I do not have any comparisons that you've mentioned.
To me CA16 are uniquely warm and resolving, one of the few DDs that I perfectly tolerate (the best DD-BA integration). Planars would be more in the direction of an upgrade of this type of signature/tuning.


----------



## Aparker2005

I will say for sound, the as16 pro have been my absolute favorite now. For fit and 2nd in sound, the CCA ca16s perform phenomenally as well. I really don't need any new iems with these 2 sets. I've got 3 backups, so I'm good!


----------



## zachmal

Alpha Whale said:


> The PR1 HiFi is the cleanest and best KZ I've heard to date. I put it up against my AS12 and, while the AS12 is an 8.5 out of 10 in my book, the PR1 is definitely next level and an easy 9.5 on said level.
> 
> PR1 HiFi's separation, imaging and soundstage are surreal.
> 
> ...




is the PR1 Hifi really metal ?

from what I read and saw, it's only metal plated plastic

the PR1 Pro appears to be an upgrade to the PR1 Hifi from my experience so far (I wanted to settle with the PR1 Hifi - but the PR1 Pro at 40 USD - haha - quite the bargain - and now I've arrived at planar land  )


----------



## r31ya (Dec 15, 2022)

zachmal said:


> is the PR1 Hifi really metal ?
> 
> from what I read and saw, it's only metal plated plastic
> 
> the PR1 Pro appears to be an upgrade to the PR1 Hifi from my experience so far (I wanted to settle with the PR1 Hifi - but the PR1 Pro at 40 USD - haha - quite the bargain - and now I've arrived at planar land  )


it have metal face plate and metal plated resin shell.
it basically gives you metallic touch feel but not the weight.

the plating somehow good enough that some that bought it insist its metal shell (even after scratching it). despite you know, its in the marketing material.


----------



## Tzennn

Just gonna put it here


Tzennn said:


> Just gonna put a "legendary" iem here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## PhonoPhi

r31ya said:


> it have metal face plate and metal plated resin shell.
> it basically gives you metallic touch feel but not the weight.
> 
> the plating somehow good enough that some that bought it insist its metal shell (even after scratching it). despite you know, its in the marketing material.


Right 

The outside layer is metal, thick enough to be hard, conductive and cold to wear.

Electroplating typically refers to thin decorative layers.

KZ does refer to "a higher-cost electroplating".
I would not trust my life to KZ promo materials, though; they had EST/MST drivers, etc.

Anyhow, I did a small cut next to the vent hole and looked under a microscope (near the cut the boundary of metal is best seen).
It is at least half of the metal outer layer with about 0.5-mm thickness:


----------



## lgcubana (Dec 16, 2022)

*KZ PR1 Pro*

Best $42 USD that I've spent in a very long, long time. 

Out of the box experience is "Slap your Mama good"
Sub bass 
Has the lingering decay of a DD
Vocal accuracy
Minimal Bass bleed
Power consumption, runs well on my Qudelix 5K

This is a very dangerous gatekeeper, into the world of single driver, planars, for your pockets.  For myself, I'm team KZ (in the planar wars), as they appear to be the standout (for using their own inhouse driver) and will be curious to see where they can take this to.


----------



## Anycolouryoulike

The gnawing feeling that you get when reading PR1 PRO feedback and you realise the salnotes zero and zs10 pro x you ordered for Xmas aren't enough.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 16, 2022)

Anycolouryoulike said:


> The gnawing feeling that you get when reading PR1 PRO feedback and you realise the salnotes zero and zs10 pro x you ordered for Xmas aren't enough.


ZS10Pro X while didn't quite explode like the old one, i read that many of its owner is pretty damn satisfied.
some like Red prefer it over PR1 Hifi, not sure how it compared with Pr1Pro tough.
---

I was trying to listen PR1 Pro with included cable which is much improvement from old cable for a week. it feels a bit lacking.
but yesterday i finally replace the cable with a balanced cable to paired it with my BTR5 balanced out, it was much much better.
it "sings" better.

the sound-stage and resolution, takes sometime for me to get used to.
it feels that there is proper distance/gap between instruments and the placement is slightly different that Aria but its really nice.


----------



## lgcubana

r31ya said:


> ZS10Pro X while didn't quite explode like the old one, i read that many of its owner is pretty damn satisfied.
> some like Red prefer it over PR1 Hifi, not sure how it compared with Pr1Pro tough.
> ---
> 
> ...


I was running my PR1 Pro balanced, out of my Qudelix 5K, from jump.  Your post peaked my curiosity on the SE. 3.5mm

I sampled the PR1 Pro using a 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter, so that I could use the same cable.

World of difference. In SE the male vocals lost their timbre and got a little “shouty”.  The sub bass lost some of the decay and was now disjointed from the rest of the song.

In balanced, the patient has been resuscitated. The music is once again harmonious, with an unabashed attention to the low end.

TL,DR: SE $18, Balanced $90


----------



## seanwee

lgcubana said:


> I sampled the PR1 Pro using a 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter, so that I could use the same cable.


That doesn't sound right, you got a picture of that setup? 

While you can convert a 2.5mm cable to a 3.5mm jack. You can't convert a 2.5mm output to a 3.5mm output.


----------



## lgcubana

seanwee said:


> That doesn't sound right, you got a picture of that setup?
> 
> While you can convert a 2.5mm cable to a 3.5mm jack. You can't convert a 2.5mm output to a 3.5mm output.


I’m using a balanced 2.5mm cable.  Never tried the stock cable


----------



## lushmelody

Tzennn said:


> Just gonna put it here


Is it the KZ's version of CCA FLA? 

Got bored of industrial aesthetics though. But its a personal nitpick. Hope they nail that U sig


----------



## Aparker2005

As16 pros tonight live with my band - wow. Even better than my previous favorite CCA ca16. My drums have never sounded better in iems. Absolutely destroy my Custom mold Ultimate Ears UE5.  I will say they aren't as comfortable as the CCA though with the design. 

CCA were much boomier, not as tight on the lows. 

Our keys player got the ZAS today and I love the look of them. He says they're the best he's tried. Would they be another good kz to try, or am I pretty set with the ca16 and As16 pro?


----------



## Carpet (Dec 18, 2022)

lushmelody said:


> Is it the KZ's version of CCA FLA?
> 
> Got bored of industrial aesthetics though. But its a personal nitpick. Hope they nail that U sig


Similar build, but metal nozzle and pushing DD tech as improved voice coil with narrower magnetic gap. No mention of diapragm material although 5 micron thickness is thin. Open backed too by the look of it? Semi-custom shape with wing on DQs whereas FLA seems to be vanilla shape.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005073474094.html


----------



## wiesolos

lushmelody said:


> Is it the KZ's version of CCA FLA?
> 
> Got bored of industrial aesthetics though. But its a personal nitpick. Hope they nail that U sig


Not worth the try, another your average v-shaped weekly release from KZ.


----------



## r31ya

New KZ pokemon is out,
KZ DQS (1 DD, $14)
KZTWS Site
KZ AliExpress

---
Its using CXS DD but with cheaper shell to drive the price down and different tuning.
CXS DD itself is very good technical DD for $20 segment comparatively to other heavy weight iems in the segment
but its marred with meh tuning from KZ when its compared to others $20 heavy weight iems tunings
and DQS seems not changing it much, but hopefully i could be wrong.


----------



## Podster

Love to see KZ hard at it, still making great little iem's I see however they got to the point I was not getting a big swing in sound and performance in their models and I've gone in other directions but can riminess with some I've always loved  Love reading everyone's impressions though


----------



## Podster

Reading @wiesolos comment he may have described my sound swing with the overarching fact they are generally Bass laden V shape with pitchy treble on some models but hey you can't say I did not go down the KZ hole once upon a time w/trimmings  Still for their $$ they are decent iem's for sure


----------



## Aparker2005

Anyone here done the at home custom mold kits with any of their kz? Wondering if it's worth trying out.


----------



## baskingshark

Aparker2005 said:


> Anyone here done the at home custom mold kits with any of their kz? Wondering if it's worth trying out.



In all likelihood, this will change the sound signature. The shell housing shape and materials/damping etc are very important for the sound.


----------



## nicksson

New item from KZ:
KZ AZ15
It has Qualcomm QCC3046 ("mid- to entry-level truly wireless earbuds").
KZ AZ09 Pro is very good with his QCC3040, AZ15 can be only a marginal upgrade?
Soon will be an AZ15 Pro, I guess...


----------



## chinmie

nicksson said:


> New item from KZ:
> KZ AZ15
> It has Qualcomm QCC3046 ("mid- to entry-level truly wireless earbuds").
> KZ AZ09 Pro is very good with his QCC3040, AZ15 can be only a marginal upgrade?
> Soon will be an AZ15 Pro, I guess...



The battery life is down to 6 hours compared to the AZ09 pro's 8 hours per-charge... I'd stick to my AZ09 pro for now


----------



## 4ceratops

chinmie said:


> The battery life is down to 6 hours compared to the AZ09 pro's 8 hours per-charge... I'd stick to my AZ09 pro for now


I also noticed that apart from the shortened battery life, the new model doesn't bring anything new, just a higher price. And I highly doubt it supports APTX adaptive, like my 09 Pro.


----------



## Rocket222

Don't help them sell the AZ09 pro.  They used the bait and switch that the AZ09 pro no longer has aptX adaptive after the first batch.  It seems they used the same wording tricks again to mention aptX lossless in AZ15.


----------



## MacAttack7

Finally!
Ordered KZ PR1 Pro, Nov 20th, 
and just got them today Dec 22nd.

That's a new record for me when it comes to shipping time. 
I thought for sure they were lost...never realized what a neurotic nutcase I was until I clicked on the package tracking sites about 7,000 times since ordering.
I think I'll wrap them and put them under the tree. Then I'll have something to look forward to, so no review today.


----------



## TheVortex

Here is my take on the latest Pokemon model.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 22, 2022)

TheVortex said:


> Here is my take on the latest Pokemon model.



They somehow keep releasing poops like this and in the same time they are wondering why people are shouting at them or move on to mid-fi company budget model that is way more carefully designed and tuned.


----------



## TheVortex

r31ya said:


> They somehow keep releasing poops like this and in the same time they are wondering why people are shouting at them or move on the mid-fi company budget model that is way more carefully designed and tuned.


Indeed.

They need to change the tuning and I have no idea why they sent this to me.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 23, 2022)

TheVortex said:


> Indeed.
> 
> They need to change the tuning and I have no idea why they sent this to me.


its a good thing they sent it to you.
we could have proper information about this IEM from you.
the other "reviewer" they sent their sub$15 iems right now barely able to read the information in the box.
one of them give info as much as "its bassy and stereo"


----------



## Podster

r31ya said:


> its a good thing they sent it to you.
> we could have proper information about this IEM from you.
> the other "reviewer" they sent their sub$15 iems right now barely able to read the information in the box.
> one of them give info as much as "its bassy and stereo"


Well that’s is probably 100% true and they have not lied but what they really need is a engineer who designs a perfect mid-range then do an upper and lower to compliment it   Just my $0.02


----------



## PhonoPhi (Dec 23, 2022)

Podster said:


> Well that’s is probably 100% true and they have not lied but what they really need is a engineer who designs a perfect mid-range then do an upper and lower to compliment it   Just my $0.02


100%+ agree on KZ's mid range!

Taking all-BAs as an example: 
KZ bass BAs were good from the beginning (Knowles-like), the new black ones are more dampened and closer to Sonion's;
KZ treble BAs were a bit steely at first, but KZ worked them out to be pretty decent; 
but no ED-29689 like mid-range BA drivers for KZ.

So if (that is not for granted) KZ wants to do the mid-range well, starting with ED-29689 integration and possibly procuring analogous drivers would be a good starting point.

I do wish someone like Crin retuned ASX/AST with a good midrange!

P. S. edited for typos and clarity


----------



## Carpet

TheVortex said:


> Indeed.
> 
> They need to change the tuning and I have no idea why they sent this to me.


Someone in their marketing division is receiving a dressing down, over over his misapprehension that a $20 IEM constitutes a significant bribe in an OECD country.


----------



## r31ya (Dec 24, 2022)

Carpet said:


> Someone in their marketing division is receiving a dressing down, over over his misapprehension that a $20 IEM constitutes a significant bribe in an OECD country.


oh my god, you should see one of them. i forgot, is it the CCA FLA?9

but dude (silently) screams "oneplus sent me review copy" energy in the vids.
he put the oneplus smartphone smackdab in the center propped up with a stand, wore a oneplus blue hat, and make (thankfully short) mention of the phone.

i sincerely hope that i was right and he just got his review unit, not just a (a bit sad) enthusiastic fan of oneplus.
---
Not to make fun of the "reviewer" but the dude barely make an effort to create a comprehensive or at least informational review/first-impression.
I remember another dude make a very positive, fairly long, and very flowery written review of an iem in facebook, i forgot what iem, but in disregard that it seems to be a "paid piece" at least the dude make hell of an effort to wrote that thing down.

i'm not particularly fond of these low-effort misleading mouthpiece.


----------



## RetroE83 (Dec 25, 2022)

I thought I'd share these measurements taken with my MiniDSP Ears using IDF calibration. Subjectively, the CCAFLA sounds the most laidback out of the bunch: male and female vocals are generally warm, not thin, do have body; bass is a little loose and not too overpowering (vs. stock CCA CRA) despite what the measurements show; treble isn't the most detailed compared to the others, not gritty, not steely surprisingly (from ears, it is more detailed than the CCA HM20); subjectively soundstage is quite wide, depth is pretty good compared to others on the graph, height isn't as big as Moondrop CHU. I think this is the most laidback, stock CCA I've tried. I'd take it over stock CCA CRA, stock KZ EDX Ultra, stock CCA HM20, maybe even over the stock CCA CRA+. I listen mostly to indie rock, Japanese 80s citypop.


----------



## RetroE83 (Dec 25, 2022)

Maybe some unfair graph comparisons  

LZ-A7 is with stock nozzle and stock medium, black ear tips. I haven't messed around with other nozzles and tips.


----------



## RetroE83

Last set of comparisons for the night.


----------



## voicemaster

4ceratops said:


> I also noticed that apart from the shortened battery life, the new model doesn't bring anything new, just a higher price. And I highly doubt it supports APTX adaptive, like my 09 Pro.


Lol KZ didn't even mention AptX adaptive on their marketing for the AZ09pro. The AZ15 doesn't offer anything new from the AZ09pro, less battery life, higher price and goddamn gold accent. Oh standard mode is advertised now lol. I believe my AZ09pro also has 3 modes.


----------



## houwels

Hello! I am a new to this KZ brand and using ESX model for a week now. I am very happy with this iem performance and its comfort so good, design looks fresh as well.

But i have a question. I don't have a DAC or a dongle so this device directly connect to my phone and my PC. For the most of the time i am using this iem on my PC. I think my motherboard (B450 Asus Prime) doesn't have a good soundcard so there is always a hiss and white noice, so i need to fix that with DAC dongle. I am on a low-budget and living in Europe. I read that Apple dongle will fix it on Windows but in EU Apple dongle that comes with lower power and there is Abigail Pro on AliExpress comes with shipping to my country with 2x Apple dongle price (20 dollar) tag.

So my question, is Apple A2155 will run good on Windows for fixing my issues or should i order a Abigail Pro? I just want to get rid of that hissing noice, will not using on my phone.


----------



## Tzennn (Dec 26, 2022)

houwels said:


> Hello! I am a new to this KZ brand and using ESX model for a week now. I am very happy with this iem performance and its comfort so good, design looks fresh as well.
> 
> But i have a question. I don't have a DAC or a dongle so this device directly connect to my phone and my PC. For the most of the time i am using this iem on my PC. I think my motherboard (B450 Asus Prime) doesn't have a good soundcard so there is always a hiss and white noice, so i need to fix that with DAC dongle. I am on a low-budget and living in Europe. I read that Apple dongle will fix it on Windows but in EU Apple dongle that comes with lower power and there is Abigail Pro on AliExpress comes with shipping to my country with 2x Apple dongle price (20 dollar) tag.
> 
> So my question, is Apple A2155 will run good on Windows for fixing my issues or should i order a Abigail Pro? I just want to get rid of that hissing noice, will not using on my phone.


hissing usually come from bad DAC or in this case soundcard, yes you can just buy any DAC and it should fix your problem !
edit: just buy anything within your reach, it will sound just fine and should be able to get rid of background noise!


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## PhonoPhi

houwels said:


> Hello! I am a new to this KZ brand and using ESX model for a week now. I am very happy with this iem performance and its comfort so good, design looks fresh as well.
> 
> But i have a question. I don't have a DAC or a dongle so this device directly connect to my phone and my PC. For the most of the time i am using this iem on my PC. I think my motherboard (B450 Asus Prime) doesn't have a good soundcard so there is always a hiss and white noice, so i need to fix that with DAC dongle. I am on a low-budget and living in Europe. I read that Apple dongle will fix it on Windows but in EU Apple dongle that comes with lower power and there is Abigail Pro on AliExpress comes with shipping to my country with 2x Apple dongle price (20 dollar) tag.
> 
> So my question, is Apple A2155 will run good on Windows for fixing my issues or should i order a Abigail Pro? I just want to get rid of that hissing noice, will not using on my phone.


I really like ESX, my favourite single DD.

Any of the dongles you have mentioned should do.
Consider also CX pro (31993), around $10-12 it is slightly on a brighter side that synergize well with more solid, weighty rendering of ESX, IMO.


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## Mr.HiAudio

Brrrr


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## Carpet

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Brrrr


Does it count as an achievement cramming that many peaks into the treble?


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## seanwee

Mr.HiAudio said:


> Brrrr





Carpet said:


> Does it count as an achievement cramming that many peaks into the treble?


Should be normalised at 1khz but yeah treble is peaky. Extended yes but can be too unrefined at times. 

Can anyone reccomend any other mods that can help smooth the treble aside from the usual tip rolling?


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## Mr.HiAudio

seanwee said:


> Can anyone reccomend any other mods that can help smooth the treble aside from the usual tip rolling?


add a 200dp mesh  

i have a some mesh and will try to add on nozzle


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## Carpet

seanwee said:


> Should be normalised at 1khz but yeah treble is peaky. Extended yes but can be too unrefined at times.
> 
> Can anyone reccomend any other mods that can help smooth the treble aside from the usual tip rolling?


Copper cable rather than SPC, but tips first.


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## BrunoC

The KZ PR1 Pro is bright as hell, with a major upper treble sheen.

No filter is going to solve this right, nor a pure copper cable. I tried that.
I modded this bad boy with some foam down the nozzle, and sennheiser tips with some foam in it. Now it's good.

I didn't expected thisaccording to the reviews I read. No mention of this ultra brightness.

If you find the 560s too bright (I don't), this is in a completlely new dimension.


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## drews

I received my PR1 Pro recently and can confirm that the treble is not great - I had the PR1 balanced (i.e. bass boosted version) and really enjoy it as a guilty pleasure for EDM so I ordered the Pro version but the rough treble makes it sort of pointless to own.


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## Carpet (Dec 27, 2022)

BrunoC said:


> The KZ PR1 Pro is bright as hell, with a major upper treble sheen.
> 
> No filter is going to solve this right, nor a pure copper cable. I tried that.
> I modded this bad boy with some foam down the nozzle, and sennheiser tips with some foam in it. Now it's good.
> ...





drews said:


> I received my PR1 Pro recently and can confirm that the treble is not great - I had the PR1 balanced (i.e. bass boosted version) and really enjoy it as a guilty pleasure for EDM so I ordered the Pro version but the rough treble makes it sort of pointless to own.



You two have made me feel much better about missing the hype train on the PR1Pro. Excessively boosted or peaky treble just kills me!

I ordered the AS16Pro and EDX Ultra after the smoke had cleared and love them both. EDA Balanced and ZS10Pro X are also on their way now too. But only after consistent good feedback came in from a range of trusted sources (here included). I am indebted to reviewers who continue to provide good feedback on budget releases. If you are throwing money at this hobby, you NEED to figure out who has preferences that match your own. Everybody has a different interpretation of "Best"! There are some very nice budget releases coming out of China. But buying EVERY new release before feedback comes in, will result in a big pile of junk too. The cost of which becomes prohibitive and removes the bargain aspect. New does not always mean better, having a few older benchmarks is still useful to appreciate how much things have improved.


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## voicemaster (Dec 30, 2022)

Bought a brand new KZ AZ09pro about 4 months ago. Haven't bothered to use it yet until today. I paired it up to my bluetooth usb dongle that capable to play AptX Adaptive. The new AZ09pro doesn't have AptX Adaptive capability anymore. My old one connect to AptX adaptive automatically and the new one only have AptX and SBC. I don't know if this one is faulty or not, but pretty disappointed nonetheless. If KZ took out AptX adaptive capability than I can no longer recommend AZ09pro. Get Fiio UTWS5 instead.


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## r31ya

New KZ pokemon, *KZ ZAR*
not sure whether KZ actually have announce this one, (KZ rep got covid in christmas and still out)
but review unit reach and measured by IanFann
It seems to be KZ version of CCA HM20 (1DD + 7DD)















---
The one on the left seems to be KZ ZAR box ( i ask but haven't been replied)
it have kz logo on the lower metal plate... KZ have a new box?

what the hell... the $80 KZ PR1 Pro ($40 on discount) have the exact same box with a $15 KZ ESX (similar acc too, tough a bit better cable and foam instead of standard silicon eartip). which being honest, while i'm not into weirdly elaborate or full of acc box, its fairly underwhelming.
hell, they manage to cram 3 iem (eda series, $25) in the same box.


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## Carpet

r31ya said:


> New KZ pokemon, *KZ ZAR*
> not sure whether KZ actually have announce this one, (KZ rep got covid in christmas and still out)
> but review unit reach and measured by IanFann
> It seems to be KZ version of CCA HM20 (1DD + 7DD)


It looks like the geometric faceplate of a Hexa or Salnotes Zero roughly stitched onto the front of a DQ6, maybe it looks better from another angle?


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## r31ya

Carpet said:


> It looks like the geometric faceplate of a Hexa or Salnotes Zero roughly stitched onto the front of a DQ6, maybe it looks better from another angle?






zoomed in from the box image. we can cleary see the DD and possibly the BA next to it.
not sure whether this is 3d printed shell


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## Carpet

r31ya said:


> zoomed in from the box image. we can cleary see the DD and possibly the BA next to it.
> not sure whether this is 3d printed shell


Okay it has a metal nozzle and a semi-custom shape (which should be a given at this price...). But as for the faceplate, "Frankenstein's monster" seems a good description. Or perhaps "Rocky"?

Nah "Frankenstein", not enough lacey bits, lipstick or eyeshadow!


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## r31ya

KZ DQS review, by EagleOwl,

*KZ DQS *- 1DD IEM, $14                 

*Pros: *
Good fast snappy bass with slight elevation
Clean clear mids vocal for both male and female
Treble is not sibilant and has good imaging and separation                               

*Cons: *
See Saw effect of slight bass boost generate a very tiny slight tint of veil - nitpick                               

detailed review at : https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-dqs-1dd-iem.26262/reviews


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## XerusKun (Jan 5, 2023)

CCA FLA Mod
*1. Removed the faceplate by pulling it with force (applying some force near the 2 pin connector will easily remove the faceplate)
2. Added an additional Y4 filter at the back vent to adjust the bass profile.*



*3. Removed the original front nozzle filter.
4. Replaced the original front nozzle filter with two 300 Mesh filter sandwiched together. *



*5. Change the cable to a standard 2 pin one for comfort and deep insertion. *





Notes:

CCA FLA seems to use an eartip that has a similarish shape and construction to Kbear10, it is also wide bore.
The stock eartips does a good job of reducing the bass quantity by a bit.
Removing the stock front filter introduces two massive peaks at 2kHz and 4.5kHz.
Sounds too bassy and unenergetic stock, the mod restores the bite, removes the bloom while retaining the relaxed signature.
CCA seems to be using a 400 mesh filter with metal mesh like the ZEX Pro with the FLA.
*An interesting but not recommended mod*, graphing rig is highly required due to the fact that a slight move on the added Y4 filter can alter the bass signature by a lot.
Some kind of glue (not superglue) is needed to stick the faceplate again on the shell.
The back vent on the shell is open and there's real holes, but it does not help or change the tuning at all. The stock back vent filter already blocks the air on the DD (affecting the bass response), it needs a larger hole at the back of the DD for the shell vent to have some effect on the sound.
Removing the back vent reveals a high Q dip around 5kHz (means that the dip around 5kHz is innate with the DD).
Adjusting the bass profile somehow improves imaging and separation. The mod is more "detailed" compared to stock.
_CCA/KZ needs to learn what "U-shaped" is (cause FLA isn't U-shaped at all) and reduce the bass of their recent offerings, their DDs are very capable without the gigabass. Whoever tunes recent KZ/CCA offerings needs some time with non-bassy sets and try to see its appeal to listeners._


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## saldsald

XerusKun said:


> CCA FLA Mod
> *1. Removed the faceplate by pulling it with force (applying some force near the 2 pin connector will easily remove the faceplate)
> 2. Added an additional Y4 filter at the back vent to adjust the bass profile.*
> 
> ...


The back filter is very dependent on the filter material I think so it's best to use the same type if you can source them.


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## XerusKun

saldsald said:


> The back filter is very dependent on the filter material I think so it's best to use the same type if you can source them.


Hmm..you mean I need to source the stock back filter material? 
I'm using this type of material on the back vent specifically (https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005002584285688.html). Which is I think is commonly used by the manufacturers.
Also the back vent filter on the FLA is weird, it isn't circle like what they are using in the CRA (more of an arc of some sort), I think its a custom filter just for the FLA DD.


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## saldsald

XerusKun said:


> Hmm..you mean I need to source the stock back filter material?
> I'm using this type of material on the back vent specifically (https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005002584285688.html). Which is I think is commonly used by the manufacturers.
> Also the back vent filter on the FLA is weird, it isn't circle like what they are using in the CRA (more of an arc of some sort), I think its a custom filter just for the FLA DD.


Yes, because I have experimented with the same paper type filters before and they could not reproduce the same curve as the stock back filter which is usually not paper but plastic or anything else. I am not sure if the FLA uses a similar filter as those in your link thou. 
This is probably a new design as I am seeing more back vents being placed on the side instead of the centre.


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## r31ya (Friday at 6:32 AM)

So little update on KZ ZAR,
apparently, per KZ rep,

1. Driver is different.
2. Graph is different.
3. Sensitivity is different
4. Cavity structure is different
---
Its priced $80 (1DD + 7 BA)





Should be pretty interesting, but so little info other that graph.
---

Also reviews on DQS, 1DD, $13~14


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## bhazard

Nope, not biting on the ZAR unless there are some extensive reviews this time. HM20 and whatever the other one was before it are already collecting dust.


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## r31ya (Friday at 7:34 PM)

bhazard said:


> Nope, not biting on the ZAR unless there are some extensive reviews this time. HM20 and whatever the other one was before it are already collecting dust.


Ianfann and Vortex have their review units,
i saw at least one in chifi group in facebook,
so there should be some proper review soon.
---

*KZ ZAR*, ($78)
https://www.kztws.com/products/kz-zar
(1 DD, 3 x 50024s Midrange BA, 1 x Highfreq 30019s)

Apparently new DD compared to HM20, the BA used is the same tough its a bit different in tuning.
It seems to some, KZ new DD used in CXS outperform XUN7 DD in HM20. ZAR may updated that aspect of HM20,
Seems to have a bit more balanced tuning too, well from HM20 that is.

Bold pricing. especially with so many competitor in $80 segment.






>


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## AmericanSpirit

r31ya said:


> Ianfann and Vortex have their review units,
> i saw at least one in chifi group in facebook,
> so there should be some proper review soon.
> ---
> ...


Yea consider you can get Truthear HEXA or Truthear’s new offering LCP S-class tuning HALO(HOLA) + Dual CS43198 DAC dongle SHIO (same to iBasso DX160 and Luxury and Precision W2 flagship dongle ) combined for the same budget….$80 MRSP is a bit too ambitious for KZ now…maybe like TRN did to their X7 $29.98…


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## saldsald

AmericanSpirit said:


> Yea consider you can get Truthear HEXA or Truthear’s new offering LCP S-class tuning HALO(HOLA) + Dual CS43198 DAC dongle SHIO (same to iBasso DX160 and Luxury and Precision W2 flagship dongle ) combined for the same budget….$80 MRSP is a bit too ambitious for KZ now…maybe like TRN did to their X7 $29.98…


How is the X7? Did you get it to try out how bad it is?


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## SamWaims

Alpha Whale said:


> The PR1 HiFi is the cleanest and best KZ I've heard to date. I put it up against my AS12 and, while the AS12 is an 8.5 out of 10 in my book, the PR1 is definitely next level and an easy 9.5 on said level.
> 
> PR1 HiFi's separation, imaging and soundstage are surreal.
> 
> ...


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## SamWaims

Alpha Whale said:


> The PR1 HiFi is the cleanest and best KZ I've heard to date. I put it up against my AS12 and, while the AS12 is an 8.5 out of 10 in my book, the PR1 is definitely next level and an easy 9.5 on said level.
> 
> PR1 HiFi's separation, imaging and soundstage are surreal.
> 
> ...



Hey!  I had the AS16 Pro and was very disappointed because they had weak bass.  Sold them.  Then I bought a CCA CA16 PRO, I liked it very much, they sound much more interesting than regular ca16.  I also bought a KZ PR1 (not hi fi), this is the next step in sound for me!  Great sound, good bass with TRN T2 PRO cable.  Now I'm also looking at the CCA HM20.  If they are a continuation of CA16 PRO, then I will definitely buy it for myself.


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## AmericanSpirit

saldsald said:


> How is the X7? Did you get it to try out how bad it is?


I found there was 28.99 one and cancelled 31.99 one I ordered, then changed mind to same the budget for something useful…like HOLA


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## r31ya

KZ ZAR First Impression,    Audiophile Ethos



KZ ZAR Review by IanFann.


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## pfropfen

Hi all, do all kz zex pro have the crinacle tuning or just the ones specifically labeled crn? Does anyone have both and do they sound any different?
Thanks!


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## Ceilidh

pfropfen said:


> Hi all, do all kz zex pro have the crinacle tuning or just the ones specifically labeled crn? Does anyone have both and do they sound any different?
> Thanks!


they all do. The one without Crin face are exactly the same, they were juste produced before the collab was made official.


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## pfropfen

Ceilidh said:


> they all do. The one without Crin face are exactly the same, they were juste produced before the collab was made official.


Thanks!


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## jananan78

pfropfen said:


> Thanks!


i have a pair. sounds not too bad but haven't listened to it in a while tbh. too many iems collecting dust as KZ is always up to something and the hype train never ends


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## pfropfen (Tuesday at 6:56 AM)

jananan78 said:


> i have a pair. sounds not too bad but haven't listened to it in a while tbh. too many iems collecting dust as KZ is always up to something and the hype train never ends


Oh? I thought about getting those as a replacement for my DQ6 where the right sadly broke and is now much quieter than the left side... I assumed they'd be a nice upgrade. Really loved the DQ6. Are the zex pro good for that purpose or have they been surpassed?


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## Carpet

pfropfen said:


> Oh? I thought about getting those as a replacement for my DQ6 where the right sadly broke and is now much quieter than the left side... I assumed they'd be a nice upgrade. Really loved the DQ6. Are the zex pro good for that purpose or have they been surpassed?


Nothing like DQ6, the ZEX Pro is neutral with a Sub-Bass lift rather than a V shaped tuning. Buy a Salnotes Zero instead for neutral. Many cheap better releases in single dynamics if you want V shaped. ZK EDX Ultra is pretty good if you liked spicIer treble on DQ6. Even original CCA CRA and definitely the Tangzu Wan Er are worth a look.

 There are a lot of really good releases around $20 now that will sound better than either ZEX Pro or the DQ6.


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## nicksson

Carpet said:


> There are a lot of really good releases around $20 now that will sound better than either ZEX Pro or the DQ6.


Which one sound better than ZEX Pro and is around $20?


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## Carpet

nicksson said:


> Which one sound better than ZEX Pro and is around $20?


For neutral tuning like ZEX Pro, 7Hz Salnotes Zero would be first choice. (Both are tuned by Crinacle).

If you want something closer to DQ6 V tuning, KZ EDX Ultra would be better choice.

For more relaxed Harmon tuning then Tangzu Wan Er.

All are good, it comes down to personal preference and what type of music you listen to. Truthear Hola looks promising too, but there isn't much feedback on it yet. ChiFi gets released as a never ending stream, at some point you just get to buy something. If you have the opportunity to hear things before you buy, that is best. Most of us don't so rely on other peoples opinions, that's what reviews are "opinions".  What someone else considers junk may sound great to you (and vice versa). Check different reviews from different people, before parting with your hard earned cash.


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## pfropfen

Carpet said:


> For neutral tuning like ZEX Pro, 7Hz Salnotes Zero would be first choice. (Both are tuned by Crinacle).
> 
> If you want something closer to DQ6 V tuning, KZ EDX Ultra would be better choice.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, the 7hz Salnotes zero looks interesting. Got any opinions on the DQ6 S? Reviews I saw today mentioned it's pretty much like an improved DQ6 and the wing on the top of that thing just fits my ears perfectly.


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## voicemaster (Tuesday at 9:31 PM)

There are a lot of other brand that has better tuning than KZ right now. Truthear, 7Hz, Moondrop, Tripowin, Tinhifi just to name a few. Give them a try. I did and I never look back at KZ. Well maybe for their AZ09pro.


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## r31ya

voicemaster said:


> There are a lot of other brand that has better tuning than KZ right now. Truthear, 7Hz, Moondrop, Tripowin, Tinhifi to name a few. Give them a try. I did and I never look back at KZ. Well maybe for their AZ09pro.


Yeah, midfi maker descending to budget sectors kills KZ supremacy in that segment as they manage emphasize rough tuning of KZ compares to their midfi class tuning on budget iem.


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## Brain Damage

voicemaster said:


> There are a lot of other brand that has better tuning than KZ right now. Truthear, 7Hz, Moondrop, Tripowin, Tinhifi just to name a few. Give them a try. I did and I never look back at KZ. Well maybe for their AZ09pro.


Totally agree. Love the tuning of the Tin HiFi T4. Flat, neutral tuning with slightly raised treble. Not by any means sibilant and the level of detail retrieval is amazing for its price point; not to mention its ability to separate and layer different instruments. Technically very capable for a single DD at this price point. Could easily sell for an extra 100 bucks.


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## Hustler

pfropfen said:


> Got any opinions on the DQ6 S?


IMO it's not a good IEM and original DQ6 is much better (especially with Tanchjim filter on top of original filter).


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## ChrisOc

Vote for your favourite earphones  here: Thread 'The Head-Fi Members' Poll for IEMs - 2022' https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-head-fi-members-poll-for-iems-2022.966386/

Headphones poll here: Thread 'The Head-Fi Members' Poll for headphones - 2022' https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-head-fi-members-poll-for-headphones-2022.966400/

The poll closes on the 14th of January 2023.


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## RetroE83 (Today at 1:25 AM)

In an attempt to find an eartip to improve on the subjective sound of the CCA FLA (specifically the recessed mids (i.e. male and female vocals, I don't mind the subdued treble and flabby bass), I stumbled upon the CCA CSN stock ear tips, which proved to be a good match for the KZ EDX Ultra compared to the CCA FLA. I thought I'd share some more measurements with my MiniDSP Ears using IDF calibration. My source is a Hidiz S9 (AKM DAC) outputted to a Topping A50s.





The measurements, particularly in the upper treble, compared to the MH755 and Cadenza look pretty bad.

My quick subjective summaries between the two ear tips:

- Stock ear tips: Overall has an analytical (doesn't sound musical to my ears compared to MH755 and Cadenza) and closed-in sound (as in small sound stage, sounds noticeably compressed compared to CCA CRA stock); bass is tight and fast, doesn't feel overpowering compared to stock CCA CRA; midrange is clear enough (female and male vocals have weight); upper treble is pretty gritty and can be bright depending on song (cymbals, hi-hats linger to long, and is reminiscent of my stock Hifiman HE-400SE treble).

- CSN ear tips: Overall, night and day difference, sounds more musical compared to stock; soundstage has noticeable width and depth, instrument separation is really good; bass is tight and fast, no change from stock; midrange is still clear, no change from stock; upper treble seems to have noticeably improved (decay with cymbals and hi-hats sounds more natural (less grit and lingering) but would say is still slightly below MH755 and Cadenza.

KZ Ultra EDX photo with CSN wide bore, shallow depth ear tip (left IEM) and Stock ear tip (right IEM):


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## RetroE83

I think KZ/CCA have a good ear tip arsenal, but don't utilize them on their IEMs correctly. For example, the OG AS16 sounded messed up tonally imo with the stock Starline eartips (sharp treble, and anemic bass), but when you put a shallow depth, wide bore ear tip packaged with the original KZ ZEX or CCA CSN, the tonality improves for the better.


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